# Latestarter's ramblings/musings/gripes and grumbles.



## Latestarter

_Edit by Staff



Devonviolet said:



			It is with great sadness that I announce that last evening our friend, Joe, passed away.  

I have begun a tribute to Joe on a new thread.
		
Click to expand...

_


Devonviolet said:


> _Tribute to Latestarter_
> _
> Please go to that post, to add any thoughts or memories about our friend, and do not post anymore, here on Latestarter’s journal._




So, a bit about me:

I retired from the US Navy back while in FL, in June of 2000 after 24 years of service. I moved to Colorado to join my brother and help him with his mortgage business as a trainer and loan officer. I love the outdoors, mountains, hunting and fishing, and where better than here? After he drove his business into non-existence, I went to work for a builder's mortgage company and worked there for a few years. Then I got remarried and became a "stay at home husband" to help her and her son adapt to life here in the US. After that divorce was final, I went back to work in QA in a manufacturing environment. I quit there in Sept 2015 and am now officially retired.

I had been renting homes when I first moved out here to CO for a number of reasons, but finally bought a place right at the peak of the real estate bubble. Several years later, after it had lost 1/3rd of it's value, I lost it to foreclosure and went back to renting. I bought my present place with the idea that I wanted to have more space, and chickens, and goats, and a garden. Well, I got the chickens, and then got bees, and then in preparation for the goats, got an LGD. Then, I quit my job, decided to retire, and quickly realized that the cost of living here was too high, the influx of people was too high, the taxes were too high, the regulations and laws were becoming onerous, and that I didn't have near enough space to do what I want to do. So, back at the end of last year (2015) I started looking at the possibility of moving. Through a lot a research I determined that for amount of land at lowest cost, lowest taxes, lowest cost of living, lowest population, etc. my best bets would be either TX, or KY.

TX has no income tax, KY does, but, they don't tax military retirement or social security.
TX has very high sales tax @ 8.05-8.25% (county/city adds on top), KY is fixed 6% state wide.
TX has very high property tax @ 1.5-2%+ depending on county, KY is <1% anywhere I'd want to buy.
TX has no inheritance/estate tax, KY doesn't either if estate goes to direct 1st tier relatives.
Land prices in rural areas is about the same in both places.

So, I decided when I sell this place, I would move to the best piece of property I could get in either place. Right now, that seems to be KY. Which as an aside is a plus as I don't do well with high heat, though I admit I'm doing less well with cold as I get older.

I have a very social butterfly neighbor who when I told her my plan to move, introduced me to a woman who says she'd like to buy my place, at my asking price, for cash, and agreed with my time line of wanting to close in May/June time frame. She is presently living in another neighbor's garage... The only thing is, this woman needs to get the cash from an aunt, and hasn't done so yet... nothing in writing, everything verbal.

A very good friend and I went to dinner at a Chinese restaurant a week or two ago and my fortune was something along the line that I was about to come into a windfall. Earlier today, there was a dump truck that had gotten stuck in the dirt driveway across the road from me. I went over to offer to help. I met the owner, who rents that place. In chatting with him and several other neighbors, he found out I was moving/selling. He came over to my place and rang the doorbell and offered to buy the place, cash, right now and wanted to go get the cash to show me he had it 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





  I told him the price the other was going to pay for it, and told him I had already agreed to sell to her for that price, but since then values have increased, so if she didn't come through, I'd absolutely sell to him, but the price might have to be a bit higher (there's another place in here on the market right now for 45 thousand higher than what I'd agreed to sell for - similar but different - I couldn't get that much). He told me he just sold 2 properties and has ~ 1 million in cash right now waiting to be spent. I told him the price just went to 450K (then told him I was joking).

He came back later to drop off his contact info & told me he'd be willing to close next week, he'd cover all closing costs including title, pay cash at my asking price (to the other woman), and let me live here rent free for as long as I'd like... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I said It wouldn't be more than 6 months. He agreed to put that in writing - 6 months, free rent. I took him through the place and he said he'd probably like to move in and live here. He asked if I would leave the chickens and he'd pay me for those separately.  Man, I know I told the woman she could have it first, but all real estate contracts must be in writing and she's done nothing yet, nothing's in writing, and she doesn't have the money... I don't know how I can pass this offer up...

So, I think I may be closing on the sale of this place by the end of this month, and then have 6 months to figure out what will work best for me. I want a piece of property with at least 10 acres, live water (with fish even better), mix of pasture and woods, room to shoot firearms and hunt on my own land, obviously rural land, a mortgage payment of half what I have now or lower, purchase price 160K or less.

It just so happens that I HAVE found a property in KY with 30 acres and TWO homes on the property (one a rental, the other a newer manufactured home) with several pastures already fenced, two ponds, one natural spring fed, that I could easily afford, and the rent income would cover the mortgage I'd need to take to buy it.  If I sell this place I'll be going to visit/inspect that one very soon.

So that's where things stand at the moment. Life has sure gotten exciting very fast as I've gotten older. So though I thought that the "start" of my farming future (though later in life; hence my screen name) started in the fall of 2013 when I bought here, it appears that was a "false start" and the real thing is about to commence  And now I have a journal to document it in.


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## Goat Whisperer

Wow, that is great! I hope it all works out for the best! 

Very exciting (& stressful) times


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## Hens and Roos

That's great, hope it all works out for you!!


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## norseofcourse

Wow, sounds great, I sure hope it works out.

I need to get Chinese soon and check my fortune too


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## OneFineAcre

That's great
You don't owe the first person squat unless they sign a contract
I know you already know that
Go ahead and get a contract with the person with cash


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## Mini Horses

Congrats.  Get that contract and  smile all the way to the bank!

  Get your goats, chickens, and all those wonders!  Enjoy life while you can


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## Ferguson K

As much as I'd love to convince you Texas is the place to go, follow your heart!! I'm excited to folow your journey!!


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## Latestarter

Thanks all   Talked with the woman this evening and she can't move that fast, isn't even sure she can get the money. So, Looks like I'll be taking the other offer, but gonna try to increase the sales price a bit and lower the free rent to 4 months, and keep everything else the same.


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## Poka_Doodle

Cool. Seems like a great deal.


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## Latestarter

OK, I went ahead and explained the situation to the woman. She didn't have the money, and the aunt she was supposed to get it from was upset with her at the moment. In my mind, that means pipe dreams. Talked to the guy who wants it, agreed to price 3 grand higher than original, he covers all closing cost (including title), no appraisal, no inspections, free rent for 4 months, cash deal, close NLT May 10th. He gets chickens as part of deal, as well as spare (nice/large side by side) refer in garage and lawn tractor. He has realtor friend will contact me and bring contract by later today for review and signature.

Property I want is still available right now. Hope it stays that way. Will head there to visually walk it/inspect it right after closing.


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## frustratedearthmother

Exciting times!  Fingers crossed that it's still available!


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## Ferguson K

Yay!!!!


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## babsbag

Looks like you on your way east   Certainly is exciting and to have someone come along and buy your place like this is almost unheard of. Hope it all works out for you...I could send you some goats.


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## Latestarter

That's like 3rd or 4th on the list. First is fencing


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## ldawntaylor

Can't resist, I have to add my two cents.  You could always do what my cousin does and let them be free range.  Of course, then you have to be prepared for the damage they can do.

A few years ago my insurance had to pay almost $2000 to get my car repaired.  It was almost totaled when that cousin's goats decided (in the words of some other cousins) "to make a nest on top of the car".  My Mom said the goats had been dancing on the car.  Unfortunately the cousin resisted paying anything since the damage was "hardly noticable".  Personally I got tired of being asked "what happened" while I was waiting for things to be resolved.

Needless to say, my goats are fenced in.  And there haven't been any escape attempts.  So they must be reasonably content.


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## Latestarter

Ummmm... naaaaa... I think I'll keep them contained   But thanks for the suggestion!


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## Baymule

Wow! this is great, things just fall into place when they are supposed to. You are getting a sweet deal on your home, hope you get just as good of a deal on the place you are buying. Sure wish we could detour you to Texas, but follow your dream where ever it leads you!


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## Mike CHS

Somehow I missed this thread until this morning but I'm super happy that things are working out for you.  Also glad you were able to confirm that the lady couldn't work things out also.  You didn't owe her anything but it's also one of those things that you don't like to have on your mind.


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## Latestarter

We've been having off and on T-storms since last night. I can always tell one is approaching, not because of the thunder or lightning but because I have a Golden Retriever that is petrified of them and has a complete nervous break down when she hears thunder that I haven't even heard yet. So, she wakes me up this morning pacing and panting and pawing the bed, and then I hear rain on the roof and sure enough hear thunder. 

After a while, there's no way I can get back to sleep so I get out of bed, get some clothes on and open the back slider and whistle for Mel... Ended up it wasn't rain but small hail, pea sized or less, about an inch or so deep. Here he comes jogging around the side of the house looking like he's coated with snow. Before I can stop him he comes in and shakes off all over the living room carpeting. <sigh> The joys of dog ownership. Went around the side of the house to see where he'd been laying and couldn't ID the spot right off, but it's pretty obvious thunder doesn't bother him... nor does a little hail.

On a less happy note, I've now talked with the potential buyer's RE friend who's writing the contract for him and he starts talking about how the guy had been up on my roof and the roof has hail damage and am I going to get w/my insurance to get that repaired before closing, and the gutters need replacing and we're closing at a different date than we agreed to, and I'd be turning over possession at the end of June, right? ... blah, blah blah. 

I asked him if he had the right seller as none of that was anything that the buyer and I had discussed and he had NOT been up on my roof, etc. That the agreement had been for 4 months, not 6 weeks of free rent (when he'd said I could stay as long as I'd like and I had said 6 months, then lowered it to 4, which he agreed to).

So then I ask what the buyer is intending for earnest money and he said he didn't know so I suggested 5K and he could make the check payable to me... The RE says he was going to make it payable to the title company, to which I replied what good does that do me if he breaks the contract? He's selecting his title company! I later talked with the potential buyer and asked him what is he doing? and what happened to everything we'd supposedly agreed on and that "everything is fine"? I told him that I had another buyer and had agreed to sell to him based on what we had agreed to and shook hands on and if he's gonna start this crap, I don't HAVE to sell to him...

I'm really beginning to wonder if this guy is going to try to play more games, and if I shouldn't just walk away from him and find another buyer. I was really anticipating a stress free sale based on everything we had talked about, right up until I spoke with his RE friend. This guy doesn't know I am not a beginner at real estate and have owned rentals before as well as working in the mortgage industry for almost 10 years. Anyway, I told the RE guy to do up the contract and send it to me and if I had any questions I'd take it to a lawyer or a RE friend that I have to review it. The RE was supposed to be Emailing me the signed contract as of yesterday afternoon... I haven't received it yet.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh boy...   Sure hope your deal isn't about to go south...


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## goatgurl

well I started reading this and was so tickled for you to be able to get on with your dreams and ended up hating what that guy is trying to do.  what a jerk.  I really hope that it all works out and you are able to get the Kentucky place.  I love the beauty of that state.  we use to travel thru on our way back and forth from ark to w.va and I always was amazed at how green everything is.  when you experience august in Arkansas green grass in the summer is a good thing.  will send up little prayers that all works out for you.


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## Latestarter

I have to admit, having been raised in New England, I really do miss the 4 seasons and green summers. My favorite season is the fall. Love the colors and the warm days/cool nights... I know it's a sign that it's all coming to and end   But it's still my favorite. The other thing I miss about New England is the rugged coast and the ocean waves crashing against it, fresh seafood, especially lobster and steamed clams... I DON'T miss the politics, high taxes, high cost of living, crowds, etc.


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## Bruce

Don't know where to start Joe, I was going to ask a question about the KY property, then got to the part about the buyer's RE friend. 

It sounded so good on the handshake. He already agreed to the price with no inspection, no appraisal. Why is he having a RE agent writing up the contract instead of a lawyer? Other than maybe the person is doing it for free? You pay a RE agent to find a buyer/seller and be the intermediary for all properties visited/potential buyers brought in for a percentage of the sale price, you still pay a lawyer to do the final contract work (at least as I've always seen it done).

I hope he backs down to his original agreement, we can all assume that you priced the house knowing whatever maintenance needs to be done in the next year or so. If it got a new roof 5 years ago, price is higher, if it was 25 years ago, price is lower.

OK, I'll ask about the KY property. Do you know when the picture was taken and can you find it on Google Earth? GE has a "historical" feature that shows images over time. Some might be fuzzy or just bad, but it would be nice to see if you can find one in the summer AND the spring. I ask because it looks like spring, some light green on some trees, green ponds. I have one, it has already been growing slimey algae for the last 2 weeks even though the maples have not yet budded out let alone leafed out. The brown areas might be dry in the spring and devoid of living trees because they are wetlands in the summer? I have a wetland area that looks similar in the spring in aerial photos. My concern is that a lot of the acreage might be "seasonal use" and seasonal doesn't mean summer. It might be helpful if you can get a topo overlay to see if those areas are low compared to the "grassy" areas.

NOT trying to be a downer here! I know how hard it is to find the right property. 

Best of luck with both properties!!!!


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## OneFineAcre

Bruce said:


> Don't know where to start Joe, I was going to ask a question about the KY property, then got to the part about the buyer's RE friend.
> 
> It sounded so good on the handshake. He already agreed to the price with no inspection, no appraisal. Why is he having a RE agent writing up the contract instead of a lawyer? Other than maybe the person is doing it for free? You pay a RE agent to find a buyer/seller and be the intermediary for all properties visited/potential buyers brought in for a percentage of the sale price, you still pay a lawyer to do the final contract work (at least as I've always seen it done).
> 
> I hope he backs down to his original agreement, we can all assume that you priced the house knowing whatever maintenance needs to be done in the next year or so. If it got a new roof 5 years ago, price is higher, if it was 25 years ago, price is lower.
> 
> OK, I'll ask about the KY property. Do you know when the picture was taken and can you find it on Google Earth? GE has a "historical" feature that shows images over time. Some might be fuzzy or just bad, but it would be nice to see if you can find one in the summer AND the spring. I ask because it looks like spring, some light green on some trees, green ponds. I have one, it has already been growing slimey algae for the last 2 weeks even though the maples have not yet budded out let alone leafed out. The brown areas might be dry in the spring and devoid of living trees because they are wetlands in the summer? I have a wetland area that looks similar in the spring in aerial photos. My concern is that a lot of the acreage might be "seasonal use" and seasonal doesn't mean summer. It might be helpful if you can get a topo overlay to see if those areas are low compared to the "grassy" areas.
> 
> NOT trying to be a downer here! I know how hard it is to find the right property.
> 
> Best of luck with both properties!!!!



Some time the county will have tax information on their website, and a track can have different parts classified differently for a different tax value if it's wetland.

Of course, if some of it is wet, you could still go back there and smoke you one of those big KY Whitetail Bucks.


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## Latestarter

Thanks Bruce. He has a RE friend that's doing the contract for him for free... After all the BS he and his RE friend threw at me, I went back to the other gal and told her if she wants the place, If she can get me a contract and earnest by this weekend, it's all hers. She was pretty thrilled and said she'd let me know before the end of the week. Even though I'll make a little less, she's "honest/honorable" and if she can get her trust money from her aunt, it'll be a done deal. I told her I'd be willing to close anytime and vacate by end of June. I've since received a voicemail from the RE stating he has the contract ready. OK, so he was supposed to Email it to me and though I gave him my Email address, I still haven't received it. The gutters are fine, I just finished cleaning them all out. The roof is ~7 years old/30 year shingles. Yes, they are a bit worn... 7 years worth, but they have a good 10-15 years left easily. The whole thing was/is a welch on the verbal agreement we had to try and get the price lower and less free rent time to me. 

Quite honestly, I don't want to deal with a person like that. If this place were to be listed w/a realtor, it would be in the 240-245K range. There's one other place in this/my area that's on the market right now for 270K, no garage (I have a 2 car) larger manufactured home @ ~2080 to my 1486 square feet, and smaller lot size.

I've seen pics of the desired property in all seasons except winter.  It will fill all my requirements with ease   They had horses in the smaller fenced area down by the road, so I know that area will need to be re-seeded. The property is surrounded by hay fields, so I'm not too concerned about the ability of it to grow hay/grass for farm animals. I'll be making several pastures to rotate the animals through, and since it will be primarily goats/sheep, I'll include wooded areas in some of the pastures. The wooded areas include hardwoods as well as areas/copses of conifers.

Thanks OFA. The length of the property is actually along the top of a ridge with the southern boundary being the drainage/creek/bottom running west and down. I'm sure there are a lot of nice deer just waiting to fill my freezer  Though the annual bag limit in that county is 4+ only one can be a buck and it must be a big one (min 13" spread). I'm OK with that


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## Southern by choice

Just reading through! Wow! This is exciting!
Kentucky has some beautiful land! I love the seasons as well and honestly I LOVE THE HILLS! I lived in a region that was dry, hot, and flat... hated it. So glad when we ended up where we are now.
Now- to just get off the road 

I was laughing at your post about the storms/hail and Mel 
It reminded me of when you first got him and thought he was deaf because he doesn't react to everything.  

We had a pop up storm today and all the dogs hang out where they are. Sometimes I wish they would go under shelter. Dopey dogs. 

Kentucky would be great but if you aren't retired there are no jobs... so a no go for us.  My son wants to buy land in Kentucky.


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## Mike CHS

Sending Good Thoughts your way and hope things work out for you.  We originally left the deer alone until they decided my planting fruit trees was just to feed them.  The herd is considerably smaller now than 3 years ago.


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Thanks Bruce. He has a RE friend that's doing the contract for him for free... After all the BS he and his RE friend threw at me, I went back to the other gal and told her if she wants the place, If she can get me a contract and earnest by this weekend, it's all hers. She was pretty thrilled and said she'd let me know before the end of the week. Even though I'll make a little less, she's "honest/honorable" and if she can get her trust money from her aunt, it'll be a done deal. I told her I'd be willing to close anytime and vacate by end of June. I've since received a voicemail from the RE stating he has the contract ready. OK, so he was supposed to Email it to me and though I gave him my Email address, I still haven't received it. The gutters are fine, I just finished cleaning them all out. The roof is ~7 years old/30 year shingles. Yes, they are a bit worn... 7 years worth, but they have a good 10-15 years left easily. The whole thing was/is a welch on the verbal agreement we had to try and get the price lower and less free rent time to me.
> 
> Quite honestly, I don't want to deal with a person like that. If this place were to be listed w/a realtor, it would be in the 240-245K range. There's one other place in this/my area that's on the market right now for 270K, no garage (I have a 2 car) larger manufactured home @ ~2080 to my 1486 square feet, and smaller lot size.
> 
> I've seen pics of the desired property in all seasons except winter.  It will fill all my requirements with ease   They had horses in the smaller fenced area down by the road, so I know that area will need to be re-seeded. The property is surrounded by hay fields, so I'm not too concerned about the ability of it to grow hay/grass for farm animals. I'll be making several pastures to rotate the animals through, and since it will be primarily goats/sheep, I'll include wooded areas in some of the pastures. The wooded areas include hardwoods as well as areas/copses of conifers.
> 
> Thanks OFA. The length of the property is actually along the top of a ridge with the southern boundary being the drainage/creek/bottom running west and down. I'm sure there are a lot of nice deer just waiting to fill my freezer  Though the annual bag limit in that county is 4+ only one can be a buck and it must be a big one (min 13" spread). I'm OK with that


13" isn't big


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## Latestarter

LOL  I know... just wanted to indicate that spikes or 2-3 pointers are not allowed. Has to be a "mature" buck, at least 2 years old.


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## Bruce

Got my fingers crossed Joe! I think a single guy can probably get by on 4 deer a year.


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## MrsKuhn

Whats meant to be will be. It will all work out.


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## ccheek

My mother in law lives in KY, outside of Lexington. Beautiful place. We like to go visit in the spring. Hope everything works out for you.


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## Baymule

I hope the sale of your place goes ok for you, whichever buyer it is. It is stressful enough without some one being a jerk.


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## BlessedWithGoats

How is it going @Latestarter?


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## Latestarter

Well, I've played an every-other-day game of phone tag with the jerk potential buyer and haven't spoken to him yet. Since it's the 6th and there's no contract, I have to say closing on the 10th is not gonna happen. I have the gut feeling that the guy is gonna be a wash out, no problem. SO... I'll just continue spiffying up the place and get it listed. 

Spent all day Wednesday outside doing yard work (mowing, weed whacking, chain saw work, trash/wood/log hauling) and had intended to finish it up yesterday... Well, it was hot - mid 80s, I only slept for 2 hours the previous night, and I was tired and sore, so ended up spending the day yesterday in the recliner sweating... I really hate being immobile and sweating... So, since it's supposed to be back in the 80s again today, I went ahead and hooked up the swamp cooler and got that working Ahhhhhhhh... Have a couple of house fans going as well to ensure air movement throughout, and the house will be perfectly acceptable! The dogs are enjoying it... they're laying right in the main air flow and snoring   Wish I didn't need to run up the electric and water bill, but I'll take that over sweating any day! I'm thinking my choice of KY over TX might have been well thought out 

So, I think I'm about to go drag out the lawn tractor and go finish up the mowing before the real heat of the day hits. I have more chain saw work to do, but don't really feel like playing lumber jack today. Maybe later this evening...

Since I don't have a contract, I guess I'll just leave this journal for a while until I have one and can continue the journey it's supposed to be logging/sharing...


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## Mike CHS

Some of us took 3 or more years to get to their farm so you might as well join us.  

I cannot believe the weather reversal.  You have been in the 80's and we have had a high in the 60's for the last several days with night time temps in the 40's.


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## Baymule

That's alright Latestarter.......when you're freezing your tail off in Kentucky and up to your neck in snow, we'll be outside playing in the sunshine.   When it does snow, it's generally gone in 3 days. The Texas heat? That's what air conditioners are for. Go out in the early mornings and get everything done.  Spring, winter, fall are fabulous. Summer, great for gardens and hay.


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## frustratedearthmother

She's right!


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## Latestarter

Well, got rambunctious this evening and decided after all the yard work it was about time to get that burn pile reduced. The first problem is the pile isn't located where I can burn it, so I have to move it from the pile, about 25 feet over, then burn it. I also had a stack of 2 year old rotted/falling apart pallets that needed burning. They were the cheap ones with pressboard stringers and cheap plywood tops. We had a T-storm develop as it was moving past us so sprinkles and very cloudy. Not too much wind and just about perfect for burning. Had quite a burn going for several hours!

The pile is about 1/2 gone, & all the pallets are burned. I did earn another dumb $hIT award in the process... It was dark and I wasn't thinking and was pulling these pallets bare handed... So all of a sudden I feel this severe burning sting right below and between the junction of my middle and ring finger on my right hand palm. So I stop what I'm doing and head back to the house to see and sure enough I have a dark spot with a "donut" of white around it. I soaked it with vinegar and ran it under cold water for a bit, took a couple of benedryl, and now I'm gonna hope for the best. I couldn't see what got me when it happened but am pretty sure it was a spider. I found many black widow cocoons in the pallet bottoms (after being bit and actually looking) and just hope that's not what got me... The donut is gone now, as is the dark sting spot but the entire area about the size of a penny is a little swollen and it's not "sore", but I can feel that I got stung there. Hoping to not wake up tomorrow morning to major necrotic tissue...

Hopefully, this weather will carry through to tomorrow and I can get the rest of it burned. Supposed to have rain moving in tomorrow.


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## Hens and Roos

Hope your hand is doing okay


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh wow - sorry about the hand.  My daughter got bitten by spider between Thanksgiving and Christmas last year...it was a nasty, open wound for about 4 months.   Thankfully, didn't get much larger in diameter than a quarter, but it was deep and definitely not pretty.  She needed antibiotics to help with secondary infection and the scar is very prominent.

Hope yours doesn't turn into that. ugh.

But congrats on getting a bunch of stuff done.  I need to have a work weekend around here...it's been too wet to do much and the yard is a jungle!


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## Latestarter

Thanks H&R and FEM... The bite is a little raised/swollen, it's a bit tender and I can feel it there but not really sore, and no discoloration, so maybe I lucked out.

I stopped burning around 11pm last night and let it burn down till a bit after midnight then poured water on the entire pile from the hose for 10 minutes or so. When I left it and came in, there was just steam, and not much of that, coming from the pile. So I slept in this morning and went to feed the chickens a short bit ago and smelled smoke. Yup, it re-lit after I left it last night and while mostly just coals and smoke, I did see a couple of flames... 12 hours later... I raked the burnable stuff away from the edge, stirred the coals up, and will just let it finish on its own.

It's completely overcast and damp outside, feeling like rain is coming any time. I'd re-start it and finish, but there's too much wind. Don't want to risk it. SO, looking and feeling like a lazy day today... Better get rest today as I'll be doing a lot of driving tomorrow and Monday. I'll be taking my Favorite oldest daughter and her aunt (1st wife's sister) on a tour of Rocky Mountain National Park tomorrow, https://www.nps.gov/romo/index.htm  and then to a hot springs on Monday. http://cottonwood-hot-springs.com/colorado/


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## Poka_Doodle

Have fun


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## frustratedearthmother

Woo hoo - road trip!


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## Latestarter

Happy mom's day to all you moms out there (to include animal moms with no mini-humans to care for)! 

No necrosis at the spider bite site, just the same small bump that has become very itchy. In addition, I'm developing swollen and sore joints all over and am not sure if the bite is responsible. My right hand and wrist have been giving me fits for weeks, today to the point that I virtually can't use it for anything more than clicking a mouse button. Hurt so bad when I got out of bed that I actually took a prescription pain killer and prescription analgesic for the swelling. Brings to mind empathy for those who are missing a hand... Amazing how many things become pretty difficult that I take/took for granted.


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## Baymule

I think a trip to the doctor is in order, or a trip to a 24 hour clinic. Like......NOW!


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## Hens and Roos

Baymule said:


> I think a trip to the doctor is in order, or a trip to a 24 hour clinic. Like......NOW!



I agree !!


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## frustratedearthmother

I third that opinion- and please let us know how it goes!


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## OneFineAcre

Take it from another man who hates to go to the doctor
Go to the doctor


----------



## Ferguson K

I fifth this notion.


----------



## norseofcourse

Get to the doctor!!  Don't _*make*_ me come out there.....


----------



## Latestarter

Still just a small bump @ the bite site, hand is now working at about 75%, still minor soreness and still swollen, but nothing a Dr visit is going to do anything about. I have a Dr visit sched for later this month and will go over these issues then. Pretty sure I lucked out on the spider bite as it would have gone bad by now if it was going to.

Thank you all for your concern! I really appreciate it very much.   And OFA, you called it to a T!  IMHO, most are quacks whose answer to everything is another prescription drug...  If it gets serious enough that I have no choice, then I'll consider it. I do think I'll ask about a tetanus shot while I'm there though... I've been getting scratched up and cuts all over my hands and arms... don't need lock jaw too. 

On a brighter note, the trip to Rocky Mnt Nat Park went really well and #1fave oldest daughter and her aunt got lots of great shots with snow covered mnts and snow squalls and wildlife and it was a nice trip. Tomorrow is the hot springs. I sure a good soak will help with my ailments and if not at least my mood will improve  Supposed to be worse weather tomorrow, so I hope it's snowing while I'm soaking.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, spent about 4 hours soaking in 103 degree mineral water and feel 103% better for it! Lots of puffy cumulus clouds so the sun was in and out the whole time. As a result, I and the others all got some pretty decent red coloring to our hides... Luckily mine will turn to tan in a day or so. The ladies though are both natural red heads and are going to be in pain for the better part of a week  

I'm tired too. I hope to get a decent night's sleep tonight.


----------



## MrsKuhn

Sounds like you have been super busy working and relaxing. Hot springs sound amazing.  Glad nothing serious happen from your spider bite and I hope your joints start feeling better. I would bring that up to the doctor :/  Hope you got a good nights rest finally!


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so just got back from the vet with Mel @Southern by choice ... He is 124 pounds, VERY healthy, VERY lean and muscular, VERY strong (details to follow), and is as healthy as anyone could want   He has been vaccinated 3 year for rabies as well as Parvo and Distemper, and has a brand new 6 month supply of heart worm chewables. And all that for a mere $168!    Last year when I brought him for his original and initial visit, I brought his entire file with me and they copied across all his information but never photo copied his rabies cert... I guess they have to have a photo copy in his file by state law...    Today I explained repeatedly that I BROUGHT all the info when I came there the FIRST time...

So today, they weren't going to give him the 3 year shot, but another one year  I didn't want to have to drive all the way home then back again  Finally the vet agreed to give the 3 year but would not give me the cert or tag until after I provided a copy of the original. We agreed that I'd scan and email it direct to his personal Email address and once he received it he would then mail me the cert and tag. I told him he would have it as soon as I got home and I have already scanned and sent it to him.

OK, for the details on strength... He was a little unsure about getting in the truck here to go, but after a minutes coaxing and a hiney lift/assist, he got in the back seat for the trip. He stands almost to the ceiling/roof, and is long enough to fill almost the entire seat side to side.  I didn't dare crack the rear windows for fear he would "paw them" trying to open them further and break them in the process. Couldn't use the rear view mirror any time he was standing the whole trip... Anyway, after the vet visit and being stuck twice, once on each side of his back behind the shoulders, I guess he wasn't keen on getting back in the truck... Silly dog, he should have known this was to get AWAY from the vet! The damage had already been done! 

Now, I'm not as strong as I once was, but can lift 124 pounds. I can NOT lift 124 pounds of fighting, back pushing, laying down, squiggly/squirmy/not wanting to be lifted, weight   I was ultra frustrated! I walked him around a bit then back to the door... I tried to block his face from looking anywhere but into the truck, I couldn't lift the front and the back at the same time and was beginning to feel completely thwarted! Finally I'd had enough and got his face close enough that I could grab that baseball bat he calls a tail and lifted it... FIRMLY! Once that tail got some tension on it, he stood right up and moved directly where I was pulling/pushing that tail towards, and into the truck he went. Didn't even have to do the hiney lift.

Anyway, got him home, he had a good long drink, had his first heart worm chewable(s) as a treat, and is out back laying on the cool concrete relaxing/sleeping. Now I'm gonna get me something chewable, and go do some relaxing in my recliner! Weather's headed down hill toward wet and cool, so a nap sounds in order!


----------



## Poka_Doodle

Where you effected by the tornados?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I can only imagine what a fiasco that was.  Did anybody get a video??

I think I would have needed an adult beverage after that struggle! 

But, glad you got it all taken care of.


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## Southern by choice

Geesh... they should have a file copy of the health certificate of his transfer over state lines... that ALSO had the info on it.

LOL at the whole ordeal of the truck... I always thought you took him with you everywhere because he was a companion dog. 

I will try to put up pics of how to get a dog in the car/truck by yourself when they don't want to. 

I had an issue one time many years ago. I will tell that story another time... it was with a German Shepherd "pup"  and I was 8 months pregnant. 

I hate that they do rabies and distemper/parvo together.
I know that is what most of them do as it saves the owner another trip. I give distemper/parvo several weeks after rabies.

His weight sounds great! Glad he is not fat but lean and healthy!


----------



## Latestarter

The vet never made photocopies of anything, just copied the info across  His weight has gone down a bit over the past month or so... He's lost weight as it's warmed up outside. Trust me... he's PLENTY heavy  enough for me! He only in the past few days has seemed to have an appetite back. Since I don't have to worry about farm animals eating his food yet, I just keep his bowl filled outside and he eats when he wants. I've got Mystie to where she will walk right past his bowl and not touch it.

No tornadoes here Polka... Damn shame, I love to watch them and used to chase them when I could... That's been a few (too many) years.

So FEM, as good as your word, I went out to Applebees for a (very rare) beer, some french onion soup and hot wings... By myself, so went to sit at the bar. Sat down and ordered a beer, BT asked did I want a menu, I replied no I already knew what I wanted to order. He gets me my beer and then basically ignores me for like 15 minutes. So after he takes a food order from another guy who sat down minutes before, I ask him am I going to be able to order food? He looks at me like it's my fault and grabs a menu to which I reply "I told you I don't need a menu, I know what I want to order." He says. OK then, go ahead and I order. I get my soup and wings, no silverware or napkin offered... I'm simply astounded... So I comment to the guy next to me that at least he got silverware and a napkin. The BT takes ~$1.50 off my bill and states that "it's not like I've been standing around doing nothing". Say what? Bill got dropped to $17 something, he got basically a $2 tip and I shouldn't have given him that.


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## frustratedearthmother

Well, dang!  With service like that he got about $1.98 more tip than I would have given him....


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## Poka_Doodle

That's annoying.

Since you commented on the tornados I might as well say that I went horse riding yesterday and the port-a-pottie was knocked down possibly by the tornado


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## Latestarter

Well that had to smell rather nasty... Wouldn't want to have to clean up that bio hazard... I'd never make it as a plumber...


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## Baymule

The moral of the vet trip story is, you need to take him places! Tractor Supply, the feed store, any of the pet type stores that allow dogs in on a leash. I've even taken our Australian Shepherd to Lowes. Or just get him in the truck and give him a treat. Trip will load up in the truck, but doesn't have the best leash manners.......my arm hangs limply for days..... 

Glad you enjoyed your vacation, sounds like you really needed to have some fun.


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## Latestarter

Had trouble getting out of bed this morning... cold, wet, dreary, still dark at near 11:00am... A week or so ago we had back to back days in the 80s, so I set up the swamp cooler and opened all the windows about an inch to allow for the air flow. A couple days ago I had to turn the heat on overnight as I was shivering... the temp in here had gotten down into the 50s. Today I went and closed all the windows back up and put a towel over the swamp cooler vent to try to block some of the cold from coming in and heat from going out. Yup, woke up this morning and had to put the heat back on again... outside temp is low 40s with overnight in the mid 30s, raining off and on and like I said, just a dreary day. Forecast has it maybe getting cleared out and back into the 70's by Thursday... I already needed to mow, gonna be a challenge after all the rain and dry out time.


----------



## Hens and Roos

I hear you on the weather- it was cold this weekend- we even had frost on the ground...had to turn the heat on again here too!  Watching the radar as we have rain headed our way now!


----------



## OneFineAcre

We have gotten back into a rain pattern
Nobody can cut hay
Probably already lost the rye and oat hay
Just rye seed and oats now
And the first cut of fescue will be really stemmy when they are able to cut


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Same here.  Every day I drive by the hay field that I get my hay from...it's getting taller and weedier by the day.  Same thing happened last year.  We didn't get our winter hay until really late summer/early fall.  UGH!


----------



## OneFineAcre

frustratedearthmother said:


> Same here.  Every day I drive by the hay field that I get my hay from...it's getting taller and weedier by the day.  Same thing happened last year.  We didn't get our winter hay until really late summer/early fall.  UGH!


My goats are eating really well though
2nd cut Timothy / Orchard trucked in from NY from  horse supply store @ $10.75 a bale
All I can say is whoever has this must have a great barn for storage because it isn't dusty at all
I'm usually feed good fresh cut oat/rye now for $40 a round bale
I'm going broke feeding goats


----------



## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> I'm going broke feeding goats



You and me both!
1 Ton- $270 a little less then last time at $300+
lasts 2 1/2 - 3 weeks we also supplement with Chaffhaye.
We get about 11 bags a month @ $14 bag.
We got Alfalfa/Orchard 1000 lb bale & Timothy 1000 lb bale... we don't usually get Timothy but the Orchard regular wasn't good this time.



I try not to think about it.
I love my goats. 

If it stops raining and they can forage more than it should go down but for now... ugh

BTW- We had to turn on the heat again too! It got down to 40 the other night.
Sorry but that is just stupid to be in mid-May and have to turn the heat on.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Add me to that list!  I have one round bale left and nuttin' much on the horizon.  Thankfully, the rain has greened up everything, but with everything so wet they don't leave the barn much...   It's a vicious cycle I tell ya...vicious!


----------



## samssimonsays

We had 94 degrees friday before mothers day, 27 degrees one week to the day... And SNOW on the ground Saturday morning that stayed most of the day. THen cold and miserable no higher than 38* , we are hoping it won't drop below freezing at night anymore after this week. 

Due to some major knee injuries and surgeries as well as a fractured wrist when I was in college the changing of weather has bad things happening in my joints to the point that the trusty braces have come out. I completely feel for you. 

Hope it is getting better for you! 

And WOW Y'all are paying a metric crap ton for hay and goat feed! I am sure if I had half, or even a quarter of what y'all have I would pay more too.  YIKES. I will be praying the weather turns around down there for you too! Our first cuttings up here don't usually happen until June minimum, July for many due to our weather patterns. And those usually don't get a second cutting.


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## Latestarter

Was driving home from dropping my daughter off and contemplating work I need to get done around here. Had a little good fortune... Thought I saw a stack of brown wood lattice sheets off the side of the highway, part in the breakdown and a pile in the grass. Turned around at the next interchange and went back and sure enough... got 4 decent sheets of 4'x8' cedar wood lattice, already stained brown (same as what I need to replace)   Very minimal damage to the sheets I scavenged and ultimately workable for what I needed. 

So, I now know what I'll be doing tomorrow before the temp climbs into the 80s again. I was really dreading going to Lowes and paying $27+ a sheet.  Now I don't have to!  YAY!  Also contemplated doing another burn when I got home tonight... Sunday,  most folks would be in bed, warm today so most would have their windows closed w/AC on... But after turning around for the lattice, I decided I'd wait till tomorrow instead. That way I can burn the bad lattice I need to replace as well as some yard debris I'm going to create.


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## Baymule

You need to make that place look real good so you can sell it and move to TEXAS!!!!


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## Latestarter

The property I was really interested in in KY as well as the 2nd choice there are now both pending sale. Just sayin' 

I'll buy the best available property when the time comes to do so... That may well be in TX


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I am no longer in possession of a BA roo. While filling the feed trough for them, the roo flogged me and got me good on the right forearm in 3 places. I was bleeding quite well (pressure is obviously adequate). He has attempted to numerous times in the past, and had been schooled about the stupidity of doing so. Very glad (as I was bent over to fill the feed trough from a 5 gal bucket) that he didn't get me in the head/face.

This time he paid with his life.

I always watched him when I opened that enclosure and he appeared to be minding his own biz in the back corner, then came out of nowhere. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








 I no longer have to worry about entering that enclosure. Since I am not hatching nor selling eggs for same, it's no great loss. I who profess that there's no reason to keep a mean roo, have followed my own advice. Ahhh the many times in my life's past that I wish I had done so...

So, this is life on "the farm" and I don't even have a legitimate farm yet... I have one other "mean" roo who has been schooled several times. The next time he gets big and brave, he'll pass from this life as well. Nothing like a face full of angry feathers, beak and spurs. no more.

Now I need to go out and mow/weed whack and do general yard/pasture stuff before the weather turns to crap later today for the next three days. We need the rain... my grass is brown, but the weeds haven't stopped growing, nor the wild alfalfa, which is almost 2' tall and beginning to flower.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Glad you are okay! Not fun to have a mean roo.


----------



## Southern by choice

We never have a problem with our roos EXCEPT the one time a year we confine them to breeding pens.

All year they are ranged and no issues, we can pick them up love on them etc. But once we clean out the hens and put the roos in their appropriate pens with the girls so we can gather and hatch out is when they turn stupid. 

It usually comes from confinement and their "space". For us after the month of boys in with girls we let the boys back out and continue a little longer with he hens for hatching eggs. They quickly go back to their gentle nature. 

Smart call on the "in the pot you go"! I won't have any animal that is a jerk to us either.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Coq au vin tonight?

Use Julia Child's recipe.


----------



## Latestarter

really needs to age a couple days. final disposition undecided. Thanks all.


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## Hens and Roos

Glad you are okay!  Mean roos are no fun, we had one that went after my youngest DS and the roo had a date with our crock pot!


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## Baymule

Hmmm..........mean roo....... what to cook?
Rooster McNuggets
Roo and dumplings
Roo pot pie
Rooster mole' over rice
Enchiladas gallo
Rooster tacos


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## Baymule

Latestarter, have you found your farm in TEXAS yet???


----------



## Latestarter

Actually, didn't want to say anything and jinx it...  Highest interest at this particular moment is: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15026-Us-Highway-259-N-Omaha-TX-75571/2098194956_zpid/  Have to get this place listed and sold first!


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## Hens and Roos

Good Luck


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## Goat Whisperer

Cool place!


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## Mike CHS

Good luck with that.  I really like it.


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## Baymule

SOOPER NICE!!! You would be fairly close to @Devonviolet !! Sure hope you get it. When are you going to sell your place? Nosy people want to know!


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## Latestarter

Your last question is the best one.... wish I knew   Hopefully soon.


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## norseofcourse

Glad you were not hurt worse...


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## Latestarter

<sigh> So one of the reasons I've procrastinated on putting this place on the market after the two cash purchases fell through is because my daughter changed her plans... She is epileptic and can't drive. She lives in an apt within walking distance (1.5 miles) of her job and is pretty much on her own. Sometimes I help her, but she is completely independent... until she has a seizure. Then I get the call and help her as best I can. She lives ~40 minutes from me. She had told me she was planning to quit her job and move to Maine this summer (July actually) to be closer to her mom's side of the family. That's when I decided to sell and move. Then those plans changed and she decided to stay here, employed, for the insurance, and other things. So I felt/feel bad about moving from here and abandoning her (like her bio father did when she was born, & her mom did all those years ago) and leaving her here with no support.

Well, I get a call this evening ~6pm that she had been taken by ambulance to the hospital because she had a seizure at work. Her regular supervisor had worked the early shift and wasn't there to do what should have been done: make her comfortable, call me and I'd come get her. So I call the ER, and talk to her, she's come out of it by now and I ask does she want me to come get her (the ER is actually closer to her apt than her job). of course she says yes, so I do. I take her home, then come back home myself. I just sit down at the computer and get a text from her that she had another seizure... while walking her dog, and is back in the ER. She tells me that the door was unlocked and the EMT brought her dog home for her. The paramedics put her dog in her apt (and locked it but kept the keys rather than giving them to my daughter ). So I try the spare I had and it doesn't work, and her apt door is locked. I asked her did she have her keys, she said no. I asked how could the dog get into her apt and the door get locked but she doesn't have her keys...Also, the dog never barked while I was trying to unlock the door... not normal at all.

I get to the hospital, she's now been admitted overnight, and she doesn't have the keys. They've checked the ER and they're not there. So the nurse calls the EMT supervisor at the ambulance company and sure enough, they have her keys. So I drive from the hospital to the fire station to get the keys, go get her dog, then bring the dog home with me. The dog was so freaked/stressed out that he never barked when I tried the door, either time, & ran from me when I went in the apt. That is a complete 180 to how he normally is if he can tell that I've even been near the place (he can sense/smell me or something). Anyway, once he finally stayed still long enough to recognize my voice and smell, he was one tremendously happy pooch.

So both daughter and dog have been rescued... My daughter fell on her face, broke her nose and has some pretty red/purple bruising on her nose, chin, around her mouth, contusions on her forehead, ruined glasses, and a 2nd ambulance/ER and now hospital bill to fight with the insurance company over. They should release her tomorrow and I told her to tell her boss she'll need the rest of the week off. I'll pick her up and she and her dog can stay with me for a few days to help her heal up and relax. A father's responsibility to his kids is never done... I question whether I should sell and move  Life goes on.


----------



## Bruce

Oh man Joe! Cross purposes for sure, she needs to be in town and you want to be as far away as possible. I assume her doctors have tried various anti seizure drugs. My wife did well on Tegretol. She's been off it for a couple of years, I guess maybe menopause shut down the epilepsy??? 

I know, marry her off, then she will have a loving husband who will be there to take care of her and you can move to the sticks


----------



## Hens and Roos

Challenging for sure glad you can be there for her!


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Ferguson K

Prayers for your family. Granddog included.


----------



## promiseacres




----------



## OneFineAcre

OH man.  I really hate to hear the troubles you and your daughter are having.
I sure hope it all works out.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks everyone. I don't know if this was the right place to spew... Maybe I should journal (privately?) or something... But the feedback is nice and sometimes you just need to get it out. Bruce, when diagnosed at 4 years old, she was put on tegretol... worked so-so for many years till a future doc determined that her epilepsy (being general, non specific with no precursors), tegretol shouldn't work on and was the wrong drug (pre puberty to puberty). So they changed meds. This has continued over 30+ years and there has yet to be a med or combo that will completely control her seizures. As a late teen early 20s young lady, she went over a year with no seizures so we got her a car and she was thrilled... Until she had a seizure behind the wheel and went head on into a boulder. Better than the alternative at the time... over a "cliff" and down into a residential area. So no more driving... at all... unless it's a life or death sit for someone else and she's the only possibility to save them. Anyway...

The reason she wanted to go to Maine was to be near her Grandfather (mom's side) who is in his late 70s now. Her GM died from Alzheimers 4-5 years ago. When she was born to her single mom, they lived with her GPs for her first 4 years and her GF is very special to her. When she discussed these plans with me I pointed out that where she would be going there is virtually no jobs, no public transportation, and she knows the support she'd be able to get from her mom. Her aunts have their own issues that she really does NOT want to get entangled in... nuff said there. Her GF has a new live-in girlfriend (that my daughter likes very much) now spends 1/2 the year in Maine and the other 1/2 in FL. He won't be able to, and shouldn't be asked/expected to "be there" for her like she would need, and is getting older... everyone knows how that story always ends... I know she loves him and misses him. The other alternative would be for her to live in one of the decent sized cities there where she could hopefully be close to a workplace, (Portland/Bangor/Augusta) but then she'd be out of reach of the family she's going there to be near.  Anyway, reason I think ruled and she changed her plans. She just resigned her lease for another year. Now that she's actually had a seizure at work, I wonder if her ongoing employment there is compromised...

So... what options am I left with? I can go ahead and move and let her be an "adult" and fend for herself... she's going to have to at some point... we all know how my story is going to end as well. I can stay here (gonna have to find another job, at least part time for the $$... man I do NOT want to do that) and put off any "farm animal" plans for a few more years. Or I can move to a place that will work for me, but is close enough to civilization that she can follow and still have me as a support base if/when needed. I know there's a "master plan" at work for me here... Just wish I knew what it was. And another day begins.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hang in there it's never easy when a love one needs help.  Maybe you could run your idea past her and she what she thinks


----------



## babsbag

That is a tough situation to be in and you are a good dad to take her needs into account. Most of us get to "outgrow" our kids, we moved when the boys went off to college on their own. But there is always those special ones that need their parents for as long as possible. 

I think that the last plan sounds feasible, move and let her follow, but that does depend on what she does for work and if she would be able to find a job considering her circumstances. I will pray for you that you find the "Master('s) Plan"


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> SOOPER NICE!!! You would be fairly close to @Devonviolet !! Sure hope you get it. When are you going to sell your place? Nosy people want to know!


Less than an hour away!  Cool beans!


----------



## Devonviolet

WOW! I posted the above comment before I read what happened with your daughter. I'm so sorry to hear about her recent siezures!​
Your integrity is shining brightly, dear man!

Erma Bombeck once said, (something to the effect), "Life is what happens when you have made other plans!"  isn't that the truth here!?


​


----------



## Baymule

I have the answer to your problems. Daughter moves to Tyler, nice area, lots of work, 2 very fine hospitals. You move to Lindale, Mineola or Van. You get land, maybe not 20 acres, but land, out in the country, not isolated, but not rubbing elbows with neighbors. You would be close enough to look after daughter and hang out with @Devonviolet and DH, and Baymule and DH.

Tyler has a jam-up farmers market and people in this area are all about healthy food. You have bees..... you want goats and a garden.....sell some....

See? All better now!


----------



## sadieml

@Latestarter, I really hate that I haven't been on the sight much lately.  I missed all of the stuff you've been going through.  First, I want to say you are a great Dad.  Any man can father a child, but you are really a Daddy.  Big, BIG bonus points for that.  @Baymule, may be selfishly seeking a great new "neighbor" (just kidding Bay), but there is a lot of wisdom in what she says.  Of course, God is great at opening AND closing the right doors for us if we trust Him, but it's hard to guide someone who won't move.  You are out there seeking, and asking all of the important questions, so I'm confident that He will make the path clear as you continue forward.  In the meanwhile, we, your BYH friends, will support you and your daughter in prayer, being assured that the Lord will make your decisions plain for you.  Talking to your daughter, and getting her feedback may not be a bad idea.  I'm sure that in light of recent events she may see the wisdom of being an extended part of your plans to move.  Of course, I know that you've earned the right to retire the way you want to, but your desire to be there for your daughter and not add yourself to the list of people who have run-out on her is definitely coming from the right place.  Your Heart. 

Also, if Texas doesn't work out, SC has a very low cost-of-living.  (Plus state taxes, property taxes, inheritance tax, very high poverty rate, very high unemployment, #1 in domestic violence)  Oh, just forget I said anything about SC!


----------



## Goat Whisperer




----------



## Mike CHS

I have no idea what I would choose to do in your situation so I'll offer only good thoughts in your decision process.  Best of luck on whatever you choose.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks again everyone for the positive thoughts and well wishes. OK, daughter was held hostage until the neurologist could get by to see her. Finally happened around 4-4:30. She is now on another med in addition to what she was on before. No idea what or why or intended purpose.   You know docs today... "give em another pill". So I took her by her place and escorted her up to her apt to get her stuff and as you can see, we are now home. She'll be with me for the next 4 days. Her dog was pretty happy to see her.  Gotta figure something for dinner... Thinking kielbasa and mac & cheese... We did swing in and get a spicy chicken sandwich from mickey "D"s on the way home... we were both hungry, but that won't cut it for dinner. I am officially tired.


----------



## sadieml

Kielbasa and mac& cheese is one of our "go to" quick and easy dinners. 

Eat, then rest.  You've earned it.


----------



## Baymule

What kind of work does your daughter do?

Glad you both are home and the dog too. You can cook a better meal tomorrow.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, she didn't want what I'd thought of and she complained that I have no food in the house (I've stopped buying "junk" food to TRY to get some weight off) And of course my credit card issue has left me unable to purchase anything till the replacement arrives. There's actually quite a bit of food here. Anyway, she finally decided she wanted french toast. Works great for me as I have more eggs than I know what to do with, and the meal was prepared and ready in about 5 minutes flat, so easy and quick. Was quite tasty too.

My daughter works in a call center for Tyco (the owner of ADT among other companies). She works with the technicians, not the customers so much... the maintenance side, rather than the "help I'm being robbed at gun point" side. She has also worked as a mortgage processor. she took training to be a medical transcriptionist, but those jobs simply don't exist and that was many years ago. She really needs a desk job and has no actual training for anything specific. She has a BS and started but quit work on a Masters toward criminal justice, to be a social worker... Basically she's like most kids and doesn't have a clue what she wants to do. She'd considered nursing, and teaching. She used to be excellent at math and I think I'm going to suggest she think along the lines of accounting... Something she can develop self employment with or get a job that allows telecommuting.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

I'm sorry to hear about your daughter's health challenges she'd been having! And like fellow herdies have mentioned, you're a great dad to be concerned with her well-being!
Will be praying for you both.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Latestarter said:


> Thanks again everyone for the positive thoughts and well wishes. OK, daughter was held hostage until the neurologist could get by to see her. Finally happened around 4-4:30. She is now on another med in addition to what she was on before. No idea what or why or intended purpose.   You know docs today... "give em another pill". So I took her by her place and escorted her up to her apt to get her stuff and as you can see, we are now home. She'll be with me for the next 4 days. Her dog was pretty happy to see her.  Gotta figure something for dinner... Thinking kielbasa and mac & cheese... We did swing in and get a spicy chicken sandwich from mickey "D"s on the way home... we were both hungry, but that won't cut it for dinner. I am officially tired.




We've learned to ask lots of questions of the doctors/hospital/rehab on all matters pertaining to my dad(he doesn't remember the information given to him) and the medications they are having him take to control his seizures.  My DH is awesome in making sure my mom understands since she has to make health decisions for my dad.


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## JACB Dorper

Heel low:

Uhmmm...yeh, on your journey and pursuit of happiness...I have a few rooles...not hard and fast but a few guiding "lights" before you meet your lighted Maker at that end of that tunnel, eh.  

A worthy person deserves to be happy...not at all costs but I figure until a person is on the path (and a brambly one it be) towards nirvana ... self-happiness (happiness is right behind your eyes, eh...that is what MY Hero says), you are a devote slave to the challenges of the responsibilities you (by your own free will) have chosen to take on.  Key word is CHOSEN...  Be generous where you may be generous...give what you can afford to lose...take care of YOURSELF first so you have the ability to give freely without compromising YOURSELF.  Stay healthy, be miserly safe and care for yourself carefully so you are just as capable to help others as you are able to care for yourself.  

Selfish, perhaps but if each and every ONE of us did that...heck past emergencies (and yes, health be one like accidents that were not soundly preventable, and such), there sure would be alot of stand up for themselves persons with the ability to HELP the World for those in dire need of decent care.  It is not our duty to bear the entire weight of the world and all its issues.  Good GACK Mun...we all deserve ME time and such...how can we be ourselves without taking care of ourselves so that we may be all we can be?  A person that cares about us, would see instantly that to sacrifice YOUR DREAMS is far too much to ask of any human.  How dare someone drag you down, ruin  your otherwise sound judgments and decisions, make you change your life to accommodate them.  I know love but I also know about abuse of generosity of character.  So many givers out numbered by takers, eh. 

When we join with another and we have progeny and accept that "family" state along with her kids, his kids and the kids his and her made plus pets and livestock and other living entities...I would expect a reasonable amount of time to have to freely devote to being responsible FOR that entity(ies) is 25 or so years per human child.  After that grace period...I am hard core and strict in that myself, ME...that I deserve to make decisions about MY own destiny and pursue them without the burden of "oops...baby needs burping," etc.  Get me?  

I am not a practising religious person of any faith...but in Hinduism...there is suppose to be four stages of life for a man...I find answers often in showing interest in what cultures dictate people are suppose to be doing with their lives...

http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/p/fourstages.htm



> The First Ashrama - "Brahmacharya" or the Student Stage
> 
> The Second Ashrama - "Grihastha" or the Householder Stage
> 
> The Third Ashrama - "Vanaprastha" or the Hermit Stage
> 
> The Fourth Ashrama - "Sannyasa" or the Wandering Ascetic Stage



There is a time for all things...like those verses about time to sow, time to harvest and all that jazz.  Is it your destiny to never achieve the goals you set for yourself? 

There comes a time one would hope where we still have our own health and resources to do the things that really matter to us as a person (you owe yourself first and foremost to be happy)...I so wish (and especially seen in the men of the family) that the mundane making of a living to PROVIDE for a family would lighten up.  Humans are so capable of GREAT greatness and I don't mean on their tombstone, it reads; "kept a clean household," "provided for the brats well"...  

Keeping in mind historically all those great persons that did things they are remembered for.  Most often said in the case of musicians...it was at the expense of a normal life, a normal family and the burden created by being the _go to guy_ in a family.  A musician is given a gift of torment that can make them literally burst inside if they do not spew out that talent....on the road, pursue of fame at the expense of what some would see as a burden of a family perhaps...spewing out that music before it gobbles them up.  Something like that, eh.  Kinda a yin and yang thingmabobby.  

I mean I know looking after your family IS an honest greatness--that's what my man does...but so is being happy inside and for you alone too.  My Hero gets time now to restore vintage vehicles...he's built me my playground and it is his time to pursue his hobbies in trucks and guitars. 

To pursue something well, some things have to go by the way side and that focus towards that goal has to take precedent...  I am truly OK with you being there for family...so long as you also are there for yourself and that YOUR true happiness trail is still on track and happening.  

You my dear man are in the golden era of your life.  There is a time for us all and right now, you have a window of time to get your sorry butt to where you will prosper and thrive...the golden years where you get to play on your own dirt, make your inner self happy, and just beam with the silliness of a child in their personal sandbox.  This is a stern talking to you about YOU and your rights to be happy...useless otherwise...to everyone and YOU.

I  personally cannot imagine at my age and in physical shape starting from scratch.  Rick and I have discussed if we lost it all by back luck/chance, to the ongoing threats we have here of fire, flood, tornado...the things not quite in our control.  Would we begin again or drop it all like a shed snake skin and try to take up a new adventure...maybe buy that old fishing boat to remodel & cruise up and down the WEsT Coast...being mobile gypsies with a box of dirt for a herb garden (gotta season our daily catch, eh) and our three dogs for company.  A total different life that we pondered before we sunk our foundations here in Pear-A-Dice. 

Heaven help anyone that dares throw sand in the box...make you tear up and tear up your well laid plans (of mice and men, eh).  

There is a sweetness and a generosity to your soul but in that concept first and foremost...to thine own self be true.  Your charity begins at home and of anyone, YOU DESERVE A HOME WHERE YOU ARE HAPPIEST.  When Poppa's happy, everyone is happy--gender neutral that one should be!  

I cannot read your "journal" of your journey without intervening and saying that you are useless to all that know you if you are not transitioning to the place where you figure that you will be happiest.

When us "helpers" give, we give of ourselves and we must keep in mind that to give, you have to have something to give and something left in reserves behind for you too so that you may sustain yourself.  There is simply NO other person in the wings to save our own butts...to do our chores (which we took on knowing our duty of care was for the life time of those beasties and birdies), I have no saving grace to come swinging in like Tarzan to beat his chest and proclaim..."Go move your son, I got this covered"...Nope...to do EXTRAS for others we have to have those resources free and clear to give away.  If you have nothing left over, you have nothing to give out either.  Otherwise we are mortgaging our own reserves and taxing our own responsibilities.  Do you hear me? 
​
So to me, give what you are able to give without compromising YOU (do not hurt yourself to help others)...you want to sell your current patch and go to a new spot...get on it before time runs out for you.  Your time, your energies, your dreams...all manageable without being sabotaged because someone ELSE requires your assistance.  There is a never ending volley of takers my giver man...willing to take until you bleed from the eye balls.  Vivid enough for you to SEE with true conviction?  The most important component in YOUR life is YOU...care for it well and make sure you devote as much effort to your pursuit of happiness as you would to another...being that you have it to give away, then do, otherwise the tough love scenario comes to play.

Got two coats, only need one...then be generous to give one coat away...but when you are shivering in that alleyway yourself because you could not afford to give the shirt off your own back away...then you divert resources that others would need.  I don't see how that balances out...retired bean counter that I be.  To take from Joe to give to Jane only to have John have to step up and give Joe charity.  What for?  Vicious circle of waste but that would be me and my clinical & analytical view past the family ties that bind.  

Give, but not at your expense or demise...hear me?  You deserve better treatment, so step up Mun...get on with getting that plot you deserve to be happy on.  Care for others but how much literally are you expected to give of yourself before your worthy dreams towards self-happiness all go POOF?  

Hugs...   

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada


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## Latestarter

Thanks Tara  Sure do love it when you pull out the soap box and give a down to earth lip smacking! Perfect sense, of course. Yup, yup... I know, gotta take care of the source in order for/before overflow to others. I don't give more than I can. It'll work out in the end (or so they say), and steps are being taken. Thanks for the boost! Hope you and all of yours are well up there in the north country. Thanks!


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## Bruce

I think one of the hardest things (other than actual medical issue) for your daughter is one that affects us all, the need for medical insurance one can afford. Hard to switch locations/jobs.

That said, how about: Is the place you are looking at within reasonable driving distance of where she could get a job? You, being retired, could choose to live where you want, she could live with you and you could be her chauffeur to and from work. Yeah, a royal PITA but you don't have time constraints and wouldn't be "trapped" where you are now. I know, off the wall but ...

And yes, accounting that she can do maybe even at home seems a good choice. Or paycheck 'creation'. Seems a lot of really small businesses farm that out rather than doing it themselves. I have no idea what it takes to get that up and running, maybe just a computer and printer and specific software?


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## Baymule

Not far from Tyler......
http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/13856-CR-353-Winona-Texas-75792/3346511

http://www.landsoftexas.com/Smith-County-TX/all-land/under-275000/5-30-acres/page-2/

a little farther out, Wood County

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/1142-CR-2360-Alba-Texas-75410/3312362

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/1034-County-Road-3144-Quitman-Texas-75783/3287887

http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/2310-C-R-2330-Mineola-Texas-75773/3280380


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## Baymule

I know you want to go be some kind of hermit on the dead end of a deer trail, back up against thousands of acres of National Forest, BUT....... if there was a SHTF situation, being in a good community would be far more valuable than being out in the middle of nowhere by yourself. Your daughter could get a job in Tyler, it is a large enough town to have some good jobs, and there are some nice areas in town. You could buy a place on the outskirts of civilization and you both could be happy. trying real hard here to get you to Texas.....how am I doing?

right around the corner from me....
http://www.boborealty.com/search/La...-FOR-SALE-IN-SMITH-COUNTY-NEAR-LINDALE/924453
slap you a mobile home on it and move in


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## sadieml

@Baymule - Those are some awesome properties you've found!  Kinda makes me wish WE were in the market. @Southern by choice needs to enlist you to search for that perfect spot for them! lol  @Latestarter  shouldn't have any trouble at all getting to Texas with you on the job.   And Joe, you definitely deserve to move toward your dream.  If that's TX, then "head 'em up and move 'em out"!  Life is just too short, and you've already started-up late (kinda like us).  I'm just sayin' ...


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## babsbag

If you daughter was trained as a medical transcriber perhaps her going back to school and being a medical coder would work. There is some good money in it and many of them can be work from home jobs. Sounds like she has the education and the smarts to be whatever she wants to be. My son blames his indecision on me...when growing up I told him he could be whatever he wanted to be...and he believed me so now he has too many options. 

Actually he works for the National Park Service in their HR dept. right now, but he was a ranger and decided he wanted to learn the other side of the job. He is talking about law school though. 

I think Baymule has some good ideas for you.


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## Ferguson K

You know, there's a gorgeous property up the road from us. I should find the link. We have been eyeballing it but can't afford it at this point in our lives.


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## Baymule

Ferguson K said:


> You know, there's a gorgeous property up the road from us. I should find the link. We have been eyeballing it but can't afford it at this point in our lives.



Go find that link! We gotta get @Latestarter moving!


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## babsbag

I would tell him to come to CA and help with a dairy but if he dislikes CO he would hate CA so I know that isn't going to happen. There is land for sale to the left of me and to the right of me.


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## Latestarter

Thanks all... You guys are "killin'" me here OK... since y'all are focused on gettin' me to TX (and now CA even)... a couple other things to keep in mind... I and my kids like to shoot, so the land has to be situated so my high powered rifle rounds (largest being a .300 Weatherby magnum) aren't going to be cutting across someone else's pasture, disturbing them or their livestock, or have me explaining myself to the local constabulary every time I decide to do target practice... I'm sure you can understand. I don't want to have to pay to go to a range every time I want to shoot.

Also I'm pretty partial to the taste of deer meat and wouldn't mind hunting some feral hogs on my own property as well, if at all possible. Also, I really (really!) need to keep the purchase price under $160K unless there's like a producing oil well or gold mine in the back yard (mineral rights to convey with sale). And finally, the place has to have a home on it (that preferably will qualify for VA financing) as I can't afford a "land" loan (terms are too steep and short term).

So yeah, living within easy reach of a "community" is something good, however, the price of land is much higher the closer you get to community, and I really am starting to become pretty anti-social... Hermit might be a nice descriptor... You folks on here (believe it or not) are closer "friends" than anyone I interact with here in  real life aside from my kids and their families. It kinda sucks when your online friends are more important than your real life neighbors,  but for the most part, you can't pick your neighbors...   We really have become a digital world. and people today scare me... life used to be so simple, straight forward and care free. What the hell happened? Oh, yeah, that's right, military industrial complex and big money in government.

I know... a lot to ask for... 

Hey Babs, thanks for chiming in. Actually, I love the weather and country here in CO, and I love a great portion of CA (the state) as well. The land & climate really are quite nice (and similar here and) there and being within a few hours drive of ocean and mountains is a big deal (a HUGE deal!). I'd love the ability to have easy access to both. However... the politics and costs associated with those politics rule CA out completely for me. I simply can't afford those costs and can't abide by the politics. But then, you already knew that  Otherwise, I think it would be great to be near enough to help with your dairy adventure. (thinking perpetual cheap milk and cheese... with very little of the work involved with producing same )  Oh, and can I borrow your tractor for a couple of hours?    Fair trade if I help you out around your place a bit? 

 OK... anyway, time to catch up on the other threads, then hopefully get some sleep.


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## babsbag

Yeah, the politics in CA stink most of the time but been here all my life so you just get used to it and roll with it the best you can, and move farther away from the big cities. I love our weather and having the ocean and mountains so close is an added plus, but for me it  really  IS the weather. I love sun and dry summers so this is for me. But...rain in the winter would be helpful. 

Sure you can borrow my tractor, but she needs to be back by curfew...midnight   I have a compact John Deere and a walk behind Bobcat, which one do you need?

Can you get a manufactured home installed with a VA loan?  I know my mom lives in one with a VA loan but it was already installed when they bought it.


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## Latestarter

I'm in a 25 year old manufactured home right now financed by VA. Main issue is you can't get the finished VA financing until the home is installed/anchored on a permanent concrete piling(pier)/slab/basement; foundation, completely enclosed and weather tight (not skirting), with wheels completely removed and gone. Until then, you need a construction loan. Many manufactured home producers offer factory financing for the home, but not on any sizeable property. Basically, they (home maker) won't finance the property, just the home for a short time until it gets installed and you can get finished mortgage financing to pay them back. I could buy a property with a manufactured home on it as my primary residence, as long as it meets VA requirements ie, the foundation... Otherwise, I'd have to seek local bank financing at much higher costs/rates. Many consider manufactured homes as trailers (which in fact they are, for all intents and purposes), and therefore are vehicles, not "homes" and financed similarly. Been out of the mortgage industry for a few years now... not sure how much has changed and to what degree.

One other stipulation is the VA will not finance a manufactured home if it was installed in one place then moved to another. It has to have gone from factory to final destination where you're buying it. The VA also has a requirement that the home be hooked up to city water and permanent septic (they read as city sewer, but I believe an approved septic system is acceptable). So if the home is on a well, I don't know  Oh, and as an aside, since the VA is a govt organization, there is no consistency and they approve a loan for one person with a certain condition, and disapprove another with the same... again, 

In my youth I unhesitatingly stated I would never live in a trailer... back then, "trailers" were where "trash" lived and they weren't built anywhere near today's standards. I stand by that statement WRT trailers older than 25 years. I would have no problem purchasing and living in a modern manufactured home. However, having lived in stick built as well as manufactured homes, I will categorically say that the manufactured homes are nowhere near the quality and strength of structure as stick built. Because they are built on axles with wheels and have to travel over the roads to their destinations, they have to be constructed with much lighter materials. They also have to be somewhat flexible to handle the bumps and stresses of traveling over the road. They simply aren't as "heavy" and strong as a stick built home, built on site. They are also a lot more difficult to remodel or do modifications to.

If I could find the ideal property, it would have a manufactured home at the front of the property that I could turn into a rental or potentially subdivide off and sell after building my permanent home on the larger part of the property further back.


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## OneFineAcre

Banks make a distinction between modular and manufactured.
They will make a construction to permanent loan  on modular.
However, many banks will not finance more than 5 acres as a conventional mortgage. Too much risk on the value of the land. 
I'm also a member of the NC State Employees Credit Union.  They will do a construction to perm on a modular on up to 10 acres.  I think other credit unions will as well and maybe smaller community banks.
Rates are still so good right now you can get less than 4% without going VA.


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## Latestarter

Latestarter said:


> Oh, and as an aside, since the VA is a govt organization, there is no consistency and they approve a loan for one person with a certain condition, and disapprove another with the same... again,



Just to clarify this... the VA doesn't approve/disapprove any loan. The LENDER decides how to interpret the VA guidelines and THEY approve or deny the loan based on their ability to bundle the loan once done (along with hundreds of others) and sell in the investment marketplace. If they are worried that the potential future investor might go through and actually look at the loans they are investing in, and have questions about the "soundness" of the loan, then they will deny it based on their inability to sell it. Some lenders (mine; Navy Federal CU) lend their own funds and never sell the loans they make, so basically only care that the loan meets the basic VA guidelines to be insured against default by the VA. They don't need to "read into" the guidelines and be overly strict with rule interpretations. They are also able to base the loan on the borrowers history with them and I've been with them for a long time.

One of the primary reasons I want to stick with VA financing is because I am a disabled vet and therefore don't have to pay any VA funding fee, I get a lower rate on a 30 year fixed than is available with virtually any conventional financing, regardless of source (bank/ CU) and with fixed fees that the lender can NOT add to with additional junk fees. And the biggie... with a VA loan, they don't particularly care how many acres are with the property... they care about the liveability of the home being purchased. The home must pass a VA home inspection.

VA rate right now at my CU on a 30 yr fixed is 3.00% with .875 discount points and no origination fee. APR of 3.312. The rate on my present 30yr loan is 3.75%.


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## babsbag

I live in a manufactured home on 5 acres, had it installed in 2007 and just refinanced it with FHA. We have 2x6 construction with 9' ceilings throughout, a 6/12 pitched roof, granite counter tops, laminate floors, wood stove, central air and heat...I don't think we would flex very well.   This thing is built as well as the stick houses I have lived in, I have no complaints. It is on a permanent foundation and if I were to take off the HUD tags you would never know it was brought in on wheels. 

When we bought our home we already owned the land outright so it was a little easier. The company just fronted the cost until is was in place and then a bank took over and used the land value as our down payment. That part of buying this was incredibly easy, but as I said, we owned the land. 

The refi was a pain in the neck and you are right, every bank interrupts the requirements differently but I finally found the right bank. Good luck in your search.


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## animalmom

@Latestarter, let's chat suitable and safe shooting ranged on a piece of property.  You may luck into a piece that has a nice hill that is conveniently situated so you don't have the sun in your eyes, or you may luck out and find a natural hollow on the property that would act as your backstop.  

Or you could do what we did which was build our own berm.  We wanted a second stock tank anyway and at the time knew someone who did very heavy construction so voila, as they say.  The gentleman came out with one of his company's bulldozers and made a 14' tall crescent shaped berm with what he dug out for the tank.  Works real well for the rifle and shotgun range.  My DH even has a 100 yard position set up that backstops at the berm.  

I applaud you for being a responsible shooter and keeping shooting safety in mind.  A rifle range is much better with a substantial dirt backstop, but a little out of the box brainstorming is always good.  When we start thinking about a new project we start out with what we want with all the possible goodies we would ever want or image and then beat that against what we CAN do and what we would need someone to do.  The day you stop dreaming my man is the day you start to die.


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## OneFineAcre

animalmom said:


> @Latestarter, let's chat suitable and safe shooting ranged on a piece of property.  You may luck into a piece that has a nice hill that is conveniently situated so you don't have the sun in your eyes, or you may luck out and find a natural hollow on the property that would act as your backstop.
> 
> Or you could do what we did which was build our own berm.  We wanted a second stock tank anyway and at the time knew someone who did very heavy construction so voila, as they say.  The gentleman came out with one of his company's bulldozers and made a 14' tall crescent shaped berm with what he dug out for the tank.  Works real well for the rifle and shotgun range.  My DH even has a 100 yard position set up that backstops at the berm.
> 
> I applaud you for being a responsible shooter and keeping shooting safety in mind.  A rifle range is much better with a substantial dirt backstop, but a little out of the box brainstorming is always good.  When we start thinking about a new project we start out with what we want with all the possible goodies we would ever want or image and then beat that against what we CAN do and what we would need someone to do.  The day you stop dreaming my man is the day you start to die.



I used to belong to a hunting club and we had a man made berm for our shooting range.


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## Latestarter

Thanks folks! GMTA! I had every intention of doing exactly that... building a berm as a backstop, but I STILL wouldn't want to be shooting in the direction of another farm/family/pasture/etc if it could be at all avoided. So hopefully there will be some nice dense timber/woods behind the berm to further act as a bullet stop


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## misfitmorgan

Manufactured houses have come a very long way, at least the modern ones. I was stunned and shocked when we started looking at house firstly at how much modulars cost....and how nice "trailers" are now.

I feel in love with a modular house and then had my heart broke when i found out just the house and setup was $115,000 and the house is "only" 1.800sqft.

Then i found this house....which i am more in love with!
http://www.americanhomestyler.net/_Schult_28x56_32__23-84.php#prettyPhoto
This house locally to me:
Base price - $59,535 (pretty much what you see is the "base" stuff for that model)
manufactured home is $59,900
Modular house is $88,284

Schult and fairmont brand modular/manufactured seem particularly nice.


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## misfitmorgan

Also....you could just move here.. 

33 acres with 1 bedroom and a separate "cabin".... creek and woods on property, major whitetail/rabbit/turkey area, annual taxes $745 and an asking price of $89,900 could likely easily get it for 85K

AND the best part....its 5 minutes from my house


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## Baymule

@Latestarter are you starting to feel loved  and  wanted??


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## babsbag

Nobody wants to come to CA 

Our neighbor was shooting into a bank and I guess he hit a rock as the bullet whizzed past my head. I was about 200' away in a totally different direction. We shoot into a ravine with no neighbors anywhere near us.


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## Latestarter

Holy crap @babsbag  That is NOT a good thing!  Did you let the neighbor know?  Hopefully he'll be able to shoot at a different angle or something... Maybe make a "U" shaped berm or something to shoot into...  I really don't want to/can't move to CA, (really, can you blame us?) but it's nothing personal against YOU! And now that you've gone so far on your dairy, there's no realistic way you'd move either...   

OK, I'm responding/going backwards here...

Why yes @Baymule as a matter of fact, I'm feeling just all warm and smiley here  Everyone wants me to contribute to their local economy/tax base 

@misfitmorgan I have no problems with the newer manufactured homes. I know they have improved 1000% in the past 30 years. Even the one that I'm in that's 26-27 years old now isn't terrible... It's nowhere near a stick built (mine) quality, but also nowhere near as good as the new ones are. There are differences though, like the interior walls are not drywall, they're lightweight paneling. No paint here, it's all designer panels. The trim isn't regular trim... it's paneling trim. that sort of thing. Modular homes are (way) more expensive than manufactured or stick built. Out of my market range. Sorry... I don't see Michigan in my future . But I do see a very good possibility of another manufactured home in my future.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Holy crap @babsbag  That is NOT a good thing!  Did you let the neighbor know?  Hopefully he'll be able to shoot at a different angle or something... Maybe make a "U" shaped berm or something to shoot into...  I really don't want to/can't move to CA, (really, can you blame us?) but it's nothing personal against YOU! And now that you've gone so far on your dairy, there's no realistic way you'd move either...
> 
> OK, I'm responding/going backwards here...
> 
> Why yes @Baymule as a matter of fact, I'm feeling just all warm and smiley here  Everyone wants me to contribute to their local economy/tax base
> 
> @misfitmorgan I have no problems with the newer manufactured homes. I know they have improved 1000% in the past 30 years. Even the one that I'm in that's 26-27 years old now isn't terrible... It's nowhere near a stick built (mine) quality, but also nowhere near as good as the new ones are. There are differences though, like the interior walls are not drywall, they're lightweight paneling. No paint here, it's all designer panels. The trim isn't regular trim... it's paneling trim. that sort of thing. Modular homes are (way) more expensive than manufactured or stick built. Out of my market range. Sorry... I don't see Michigan in my future . But I do see a very good possibility of another manufactured home in my future.



No actually the one i linked for the manufactured has a all drywall interior and normal "brick" moldings, except where it is purely decorative like by the wooden wall in the foyer, which is a thinner molding. That is actually an ad for a texas place too. When you say out of your price range you mean the property and taxes are? Cause that's quite cheap for most US places. There are better and worse deals here lol like our place is 20acres for 45k...our buddy just bought his place for 20acres and 126k. he irony is he wants to farm too but his place just had a nice-ish house and a small pole garage, our has all the outbuildings and tillable etc but crappy house aka trailer built in 1970. In all honesty i would not want to move to michigan either but my family lives here and they wont move, the buggers.


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## Latestarter

I was talking about MY manufactured home... that I'm living in right now... with paneling etc... I was saying that a _modular_ home (new purchase) was out of my price range. At least for what I want it is. I priced them and for what I want they start around 150K, and that's just the home, no land/foundation-basement/installation-moving/well/septic/fencing/barns/animals... When it was all said and done, the total cost to be move in ready would have been in the 250K range just for the home.well hope you see what I mean... I'm all about downsizing and for those who can live in one of those "tiny houses" (closet on wheels), more power to them. I need SPACE... I'm in a 1480 square foot place now, and that was a downsize from my large home which was in the 2400 range. I'd really like something somewhat north of the middle ground there.... 1900-2000 square feet. 3-4 BRs 2.5 bath with decent sized bedrooms. OK, so if I won the lottery I'd buy a 5000 acre ranch and build a mansion log home; something I could get "lost" in. 

As for moving from Michigan, family is great and all, but you have to do what works for you and yours. You can always visit them and vice versa...


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## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> Holy crap @babsbag  That is NOT a good thing!  Did you let the neighbor know? Hopefully he'll be able to shoot at a different angle or something... Maybe make a "U" shaped berm or something to shoot into... I really don't want to/can't move to CA, (really, can you blame us?) but it's nothing personal against YOU! And now that you've gone so far on your dairy, there's no realistic way you'd move either...



I did let him know and he was pretty surprised. He had his 3 year old son outside playing at the time too. Thankfully no one got hurt. He doesn't shoot very often and is usually careful when he does. Right now the house is empty, hopefully they will sell it. He wasn't a HORRID neighbor but didn't like my dogs, flies, roosters, bees, or guineas. Fortunately he would complain but never do more than that, he wasn't vindictive which was good. 

I had two roosters when he first complained about them, and no guineas. Probably 6 goats and no dogs, and one beehive. Now I have who knows how many of each  (not really but you get the picture). I would be better if they sold the house. 

If I did leave CA it would be to move to AZ or Utah. I need to stay west of the Rockies for humidity reasons and I am not overly fond of rain and long cold snowing winters are a no go.  But I am a CA girl so here I'll stay.


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## Baymule

@Latestarter look into repos. HUD has repos, HUD is the devil incarnate to deal with, but you might find a good deal.


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## babsbag

There was one thing nice about dealing with FHA and having a manufactured home...the manufactured homes are built to HUD standards and FHA requires that the house conforms to HUD standards. So anything that they found that wouldn't be allowed in a stick built home they had to let slide as it was their code the home was built to. Very convenient . It was only a few things like a crawl space entry into the attic (Which we had put in ourselves) and the number of attic vents.  When it came to financing a manufactured home it was much easier with FHA than it was with a conventional loan.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> I was talking about MY manufactured home... that I'm living in right now... with paneling etc... I was saying that a _modular_ home (new purchase) was out of my price range. At least for what I want it is. I priced them and for what I want they start around 150K, and that's just the home, no land/foundation-basement/installation-moving/well/septic/fencing/barns/animals... When it was all said and done, the total cost to be move in ready would have been in the 250K range just for the home.well hope you see what I mean... I'm all about downsizing and for those who can live in one of those "tiny houses" (closet on wheels), more power to them. I need SPACE... I'm in a 1480 square foot place now, and that was a downsize from my large home which was in the 2400 range. I'd really like something somewhat north of the middle ground there.... 1900-2000 square feet. 3-4 BRs 2.5 bath with decent sized bedrooms. OK, so if I won the lottery I'd buy a 5000 acre ranch and build a mansion log home; something I could get "lost" in.
> 
> As for moving from Michigan, family is great and all, but you have to do what works for you and yours. You can always visit them and vice versa...



I see what you mean. Atm we live in a 750sqft 1970 trailer and it sucks! The house we put up will be someplace in the 1800-1900sqft range since we only have the two of us to house. The modular i love is 115k so i know what you mean, i did the math and with the land purchase and all the other jazz it would be around $180,000 and that just is not gonna happen. Besides im pretty sure we could build a similar styled stick built for less then 115K as its only approx 1850sfqt, one level with a single roof line...ranch style 3 bedroom 2 bath. We shall have to wait and see.

I lived out of state for 10 years and even out of country for a short while. I just hardly ever saw my family that way, maybe 2-3 times a year. A big part of me moving back was my dad, he has a lot of problems from agent orange and his health is quite bad now so i will stay close until the time comes to say our goodbyes at the least.

I'm sure wherever you decide to move you will find someplace/house/farm/land that works for you.


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## babsbag

Manufactured homes are "trailers". Used to be called mobile homes. 
Modular homes come in panelized kits that you put together on your property. The look just like a stick built home and are considered one by the banks.

I live in probably the most expensive state in the US and 7 years ago our 1700 sq ft manufactured home was l08,000.00 with no upgrades and no installation. That is only 63.00 a sq ft. The cost of building a home averages 150.00. By the time I got done and had it placed on the land, the foundation built, and the septic installed I was up to 190,000.00  so that was still only 111.00 a sq ft.  Couldn't beat the price or the time line. From the date I ordered to move in was about 6 weeks.


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## Mike CHS

Our home was a bank repo that was reduced to just the value of the land since the house was considered worthless.  We considered tearing it down and building new but we changed our minds after seeing how good the "bones" of the house were.  It took a lot of work but it is exactly what we want now.


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## Ferguson K

Haven't had a chance to read but here's that listing. 

http://www.har.com/536-glendale-holly-rd/sale_14844924


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## Latestarter

Thanks Kate. I'd actually seen that one on Zillow. It's a little further south than where I'm concentrating, but thanks for sharing it.


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## SheepGirl

Wow, land and homes are cheap everywhere else but Maryland! My fiance and I have been looking at homes since February... most places with land are hard to come by. We even thought about purchasing land and building a home, but even just two cleared acres is $100k. (And we would still need a well and septic.) Wooded lots are a lot cheaper, but they are up on the mountain out of the way of everything. We finally found a place 10 minutes from town (though about 50 minutes from my parents and 40 minutes from his) with a little more than 7 acres and a nice home with a pool (but no fencing/buildings) for a little less than $300k. We settle in 3 weeks. We went with a USDA loan, no down payment (which is great because the money we've saved up for a down payment can be used to build a 4 car garage for him to paint cars and renovate the kitchen). So maybe if you find a property the VA loan won't cover, you can go with a USDA loan. We have a fixed 3.25% 30 yr rate. Good luck in your home search


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## Latestarter

Well, The rock has been moved and has begun to roll. The realtor the neighbor recommended stopped by today and I walked him around and through the place. He said he'll be swamped the next couple of days but will do a work up and get back to me Wednesday or Thursday. He said RE has slowed down some from the hot and heavy May/June time frame. He specializes in homes with acreage, so he's not a sub division guru. So now we wait and see what he thinks.
 he asked my time frame and my net goal. I told him no huge rush, and what I wanted to get out of it.

Glad you were able to find something @SheepGirl   As for expenses, yeah, MD comes in #6 as least value for a dollar. I've been concentrating on KY which is the 7th best, or TX which is more or less right in the middle. (link below graphic - Love the stuff on the tax foundation site!)







http://www.lifehack.org/articles/money/the-10-most-and-least-expensive-states-america.html


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Manufactured homes are "trailers". Used to be called mobile homes.
> Modular homes come in panelized kits that you put together on your property. The look just like a stick built home and are considered one by the banks.
> 
> I live in probably the most expensive state in the US and 7 years ago our 1700 sq ft manufactured home was l08,000.00 with no upgrades and no installation. That is only 63.00 a sq ft. The cost of building a home averages 150.00. By the time I got done and had it placed on the land, the foundation built, and the septic installed I was up to 190,000.00  so that was still only 111.00 a sq ft.  Couldn't beat the price or the time line. From the date I ordered to move in was about 6 weeks.



i know that they are trailers lol..here modular homes do not come in a panelized kit of any sort, not sure what kind of home that would be called here. Here a modular is a house that comes in two halves on trailers and they set the house then take the trailers with them. Manufactured/trailer come the same way but they leave the trailer permanently on the home as the "foundation." We also have sectionals that come in 3 or more parts on trailers and are put together on site and then the trailers are taken back.

Our foundation, well, septic, drain field, and driveway will be 10k to put in. Tenching in electric and having the propane tank set will be the another 5k give or take. The property is 45k. 

Here to build a nice higher end house(large kitchen, upgraded appliance, flooring) 1836sqft its $83/sqft for everything well/septic/driveway/electric/full basement, etc. To build a basic house around 1836sqft its $52/sqft driveway, septic, tc included. The modular i love is $63/sqft for the modular only...no septic, well, driveyway, etc. So i would say yes its very costly for what it is and i could build a stick built in my area of the country for less. 

i love Cali but i can only visit even then it costs so much more, i would ntever be able to afford to live there.  i hate snow


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## babsbag

Our manufactured home came in two pieces and the wheels and axles were removed. It was slid onto a perimeter concrete foundation with jack stands in the crawl space to support the steel floor joists. We had a taller roof put on too so they did part of that on our site as well as it was too tall to tow.  Funny how the same things are called differently in different states. 

@Latestarter...interesting chart and I knew that I lived in an expensive state, but the salaries are probably a little higher too so that helps. Also it varies greatly from county to county. I can buy 16 acres of land for 80,000. There is some fencing but no well, no septic, and probably another 2-3,000 to get power depending on where a person put a house. Then I can go 3 hours away and that same land would 150,000 minimum. It is all driven by job availability.


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## Mike CHS

Land prices are all over the place in Tennessee.  You can get a parcel of 20 acres here for right around $2,000 an acre but go 30 miles north (toward Nashville) and you are are looking at $10,000 an acre if you can find anything. Small parcels (10-30 acres) are  fairly rare anymore.


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## Latestarter

Well, I'll just wait to hear what the realtor says and go from there. There are lots of new homes going up all around here, they are on postage stamp lots with cookie cutter facades and they all start at high 200s and for anything past builder basic, you're talking 350+ If they have 1/2 an acre or more, they start mid 300s and go up from there, and they're STILL in subdivisions with HOAs and such. So this place isn't sparkly new, and it isn't "up to date" but it's nice, functional and comfortable with NO HOA, and enough room for a run-in or small pole barn and a couple of horses, with no real restrictions.   we'll see.


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## frustratedearthmother

Good luck!


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## Baymule

Land in our immediate area is crazy high because of the school district. Every body wants their kids in Lindale school district.

I hope you get enough for your place to finance your move to a better-for-you home.


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## misfitmorgan

Good luck!


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## Latestarter

Actually Mike, land prices are all over the place... all over the place  I think a lot has to do with the state of the nation, economy, food, just everything... A lot of folks want to get away from the crowded cities and get back to providing for themselves a little bit more. I'm not a tree hugger or a back to nature person or anything like that. I just want to have a little more/better control over my own existence. be a little (OK... LOT) more self sufficient. Still want to buy stuff from stores, but more selectively. Tough to explain in a few short sentences really, but I believe most here will understand.

So I keep my eyes open for possibilities, and whatever is the best available when the time comes, that's where I'll go. I'm trying to keep 2 options open; KY & TX.

Thanks all! Luck and perseverance I guess


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## Latestarter

Talked with the realtor a while back. He feels comfortable listing at 240K which would net me ~225K. I explained that there's still a chance that the original woman whose aunt wouldn't release her funds, may get those funds. I've been working with her for months, so... The aunt is coming here in a week or so, we shall see. If she gets her money and wants to pay cash. If the property isn't already under contract, she will get to buy it and he will not get a commission from that sale. This will be written into the listing agreement. Have called a carpet cleaning company (Zerores) that will be here Monday afternoon. Have spent yesterday and today in serious clean-up mode, and that will continue. The listing will go up, but will not open for buyer tours until ~ Wednesday. Meanwhile, he'll put up a sign "coming soon" out front. So the wheels are now spinning.

The property I'm most interested in is still available (as far as I know) in TX. There's nothing really that fits the bill for me right now in KY. Fun times are ahead for sure!


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## Baymule

I'll leave the porch light on for you!


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## Mike CHS

I'm really glad to see you moving on this.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Well, The rock has been moved and has begun to roll. The realtor the neighbor recommended stopped by today and I walked him around and through the place. He said he'll be swamped the next couple of days but will do a work up and get back to me Wednesday or Thursday. He said RE has slowed down some from the hot and heavy May/June time frame. He specializes in homes with acreage, so he's not a sub division guru. So now we wait and see what he thinks.
> he asked my time frame and my net goal. I told him no huge rush, and what I wanted to get out of it.
> 
> Glad you were able to find something @SheepGirl   As for expenses, yeah, MD comes in #6 as least value for a dollar. I've been concentrating on KY which is the 7th best, or TX which is more or less right in the middle. (link below graphic - Love the stuff on the tax foundation site!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lifehack.org/articles/money/the-10-most-and-least-expensive-states-america.html



Given VT is always claimed to be an expensive state to live in, I'm surprised that $100 is worth very nearly $100. I wonder what factors they consider when making the determination. If it is JUST the cost of goods, there are WAY more factors that make a state "affordable". You could have super cheap "goods" and pay through the nose in property tax for example. And of course each person's situation is different. I know you are factoring in which states do not tax military pensions or SS when looking at desirable locations. The second will eventually be a potential consideration for everyone but the former is not.


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## Latestarter

Well, almost at the end of day one of showings. Still several more to come and have appts booked for tomorrow and Saturday. First person to visit wrote a contract for 10-15K over asking price if I accepted the offer by 8pm tonight. Realtor put in the MLS listing that all offers would be presented to me on Monday evening. He said best to wait till Monday and review all offers as they will most likely still honor the offer if we accept it on Monday. They really want the place, and from what I know, they'd qualify for financing with little problem. They'd also like to close in 30 days or sooner if able.

Had another gent stop by just because he saw the advert, had no realtor, and says he may want to buy the place for his son who is young and got his GF in a motherly way. He said he'd get in touch with a realtor to proceed... Have the next visitor parked out by the road, so I'll be doing the grand tour again here directly. Up to 8 showings today already. Dogs are getting about done with the in and out routine while I show folks. They'll just have to deal with it.

OK, so the ball is definitely rolling now. Guess I'll have the final verdict, one way or another come Monday evening. Pretty sure I'll be moving the beginning (to middle?) of September. Least it will be a little cooler then. Hate moving in high heat and humidity...


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## OneFineAcre

You must be in one red hot real estate market 
That many showings and an offer over asking price
Good luck
You are showing the house?
Every time I've ever sold a house through a broker ( sold one by owner) I had to leave the house for showings and the buyers agent showed the house


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## Baymule

Do you have your place picked out to buy?


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## Mini Horses

Lots of activity!!  Looks like you will be "moving & re-starting" really soon     It's a tiring and exciting time. 

You can have goats & pigs and chickens, bees, a garden -- tired yet?  I'm so excited for you!


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## Latestarter

OneFineAcre said:


> You must be in one red hot real estate market
> That many showings and an offer over asking price  Good luck  You are showing the house?
> Every time I've ever sold a house through a broker ( sold one by owner) I had to leave the house for showings and the buyers agent showed the house



The market here has been pretty hot since early this spring. The builders are going absolutely crazy here with sub developments. Too many people and more coming all the time. Part of the reason I want out. My realtor told me things had slowed down some over the past month, mostly heat and folks with kids who had already purchased to move during summer break. But there aren't a lot of properties like mine available right now so he felt it would do good. Because I have dogs, I required that showing be by appointment only, with me there to move the dogs in/out so the potential buyers could move through. So I walk along with them and answer questions if they have any, and move the dogs in or out so they can view the rest. Works pretty well actually and the realtors have been asking lots of questions too.



Baymule said:


> Do you have your place picked out to buy?



There are a couple that I've been watching. Right now, the best fit for me is down your way. 37 acres, backing up to state wildlife land. It's a FSBO, and it's still showing available. As soon as I have this place under contract, I'll be hitting the road to go actually see the properties I'm interested in. I thought I had posted the link, but looking back, I guess I didn't... sorry: http://www.zillow.com/savedhomes/fo...463,31.776045,-95.815887_rect/8_zm/1_rs/1_fr/
There was another with 37 acres not too far from that one but it was split by a road with 12 acres on one side and the rest on the other. That place is now off the market. I think they were pricing it too high, or some other reason why it didn't sell. I don't know. If/when I get down that way, maybe we can all meet up for dinner someplace? Split the distance so @Devonviolet can meet as well. Know of any good eatin' places right between you guys?



Mini Horses said:


> Lots of activity!!  Looks like you will be "moving & re-starting" really soon     It's a tiring and exciting time._You can have goats & pigs and chickens, bees, a garden -- tired yet?_  I'm so excited for you!



Mannnnnnn.... I wasn't tired till you put all that into one sentence!   Now you've gotten me thinking maybe I ought to look for one of them "dirty old man" retirement condo communities and I can sit around the pool and ogle all them old women Might be nice to not have to cut the lawn   Thanks Mini Horses    Hopefully this will be my final home move. The next one should be the final/final move when they (my kids) plant my vacant husk in the ground someplace, or turn it to ash... (won't really matter to me either way).


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## babsbag

That is really exciting that you have so many interested already. Sounds like you will get your asking price and maybe some extra too. 

About all those hobbies...there are days I think "I retired for this?!?!?" I work so much harder now than I ever did when I had a "job".  I keep thinking I should just give something up, but nope, instead I go shopping and buy more trees for the new orchard and/or more goats. I have 5 hives right now, all seem to be doing well. The garden is giving me tomatoes like crazy and I am planting the green beans next week. I have been canning tomatoes when it is too hot to work outside.  I have to pick up the pickling cucumbers here real soon and get them in the crock and the counter is covered in peaches to can and more on the tree. I am waiting for my friend's pistachio tree to be ready to pick and I need to freeze some corn. Why do I do these things?   I am supposed to be retired.   Oh, and I am building a dairy...let's not forget that.

So, don't take any tips or lessons from me, I work too darn hard.


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## Mike CHS

The retired life is proving enjoyable if not easy on the back.


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## Ferguson K

I can't view the link without being a member. :/ not on my phone anyway.


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## Latestarter

Sorry... I have a zillow account and didn't realize you had to be signed in to see the link... Here's a different one that should work:
https://hotpads.com/15026-us-highway-259-n-omaha-tx-75571-1mwn2qx/pad-for-sale


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## animalmom

Whoopy!  Latestarter is coming to Texas!  We'll try very hard to be patient and let you get settled in and fencing up and then tempt you with goaties!


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## Ferguson K

If you get that place I have an old horse you can fill one of those stalls with.


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> There are a couple that I've been watching. Right now, the best fit for me is down your way. 37 acres, backing up to state wildlife land. It's a FSBO, and it's still showing available. As soon as I have this place under contract, I'll be hitting the road to go actually see the properties I'm interested in. I thought I had posted the link, but looking back, I guess I didn't... sorry: http://www.zillow.com/savedhomes/fo...463,31.776045,-95.815887_rect/8_zm/1_rs/1_fr/
> If/when I get down that way, maybe we can all meet up for dinner someplace? Split the distance so @Devonviolet can meet as well. Know of any good eatin' places right between you guys?


Actually, you did give us this listing a while back. I remember looking it up & thinking how cool it is that it is less than an hour away from us.  

DH & I would LOVE to meet with you and Bay & her DH for dinner, when you are in the area!  No promises, but we might be able to host a gathering here on the homestead.  

I looked at the photos on that listing & already have barn envy!    That barn looks awesome in the photo.

A word of caution . . . after looking at a LOT of properties, when we were looking for this place, we learned that if a listing focuses on the land & out buildings, with NO photos of the house, that _usually_ means the house needs a lot of work. From the looks of the outside of the house, it looks to be about 40+ years old. 

I hope I'm wrong, but I'm thinking you might need to be prepared to do some work, to get the house comfortable.


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## animalmom

I'd seriously consider doing great mayhem for that barn!


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## frustratedearthmother

Beautiful place... I've been looking for something in that area      Just kiddin' - hope it works out for you!!


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## Latestarter

Gosh Kate, I never really considered horses... seemed like a lot of work and expense, though I have ridden them a few times, and it was enjoyable. It is a pretty impressive barn... I'd actually been trying to figure out what to do with all them stalls... maybe board horses for folks? Extra income maybe? Not sure... 

Until I've gone and looked at the place, it's all just conjecture anyway. I tried calling the number provided (twice) and no answer... the recorded computer voice says the client hasn't set up a voice mail box yet so can't even leave a message. The number is a North Carolina number   Maybe I ought to ask one of our NC contingent to track the owner down for me...

I'm completely aware that that home might need serious re-work... The fact that they included no interior photos kinda hints that is most likely the case. And now that the owner is a NC phone #, I wonder about absentee ownership and if this is a rental (with associated abuse). We'll just have to see...

I hope I get to meet with y'all down south there. We'll have to see how things play out in the coming week or two. Once this is under contract, I'll be out looking for sure. Because of my present animals, it will have to be quick out and back trips.


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## Ferguson K

Horses are a lot of work. We have a geriatric ward... LOL all of our horses are seniors and most of them are retired.

Either way when you do go out looking at properties we have to see about doing a meet up!

Our property we bought sight unseen. Word of mouth and price was right

We knew the house was in shambles but never dreamt two years later we would still be remodeling on our thin budget.


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## Latestarter

A meet up would be great. No idea where you are located WRT Baymule and Devonviolet... I thought you were pretty well way down south nearer the coast... Maybe the Conroe or Woodlands area? I guess Bay is in the Tyler area and Devon is in the Sulphur Springs area. No idea where @animalmom  is located... She just reveals north central...

Anyone have any comments/suggestions to offer regarding running a horse boarding "establishment"? Biting off more than I can chew? 

OK, so on a side note, had another couple of guys who looked at the property earlier come back by without the realtor to ask me to let them buy the place and are approved and told their realtor to go to $250K So I now have at least 2 actual offers on the table that I know of. Both at 250 or higher. Another couple that viewed today seemed pretty interested... he races stock cars and wants to put a wider gate in the back and build a shop back there to work on his car(s). Several more showings scheduled for today and more still for Saturday in the morning and early afternoon.

I keep telling them that I know there have been offers   but won't/don't know anything about them   and won't until Monday evening when my realtor presents them to me  Gonna try to keep my excitement in check here and not report anything more on this until I know for sure


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## Baymule

That place looks real nice. I wouldn't worry about the shape of the house too much, heck, you can live in the barn!  Actually, if the house is in poor shape, that works in your favor--price wise. Get a bathroom and bedroom in good working order and then start on the rest of the house. I came up here to work on the house and slept on our daughter's sofa until I got all the painting done, then I threw a mattress on the floor and started on the floors. You might have to "camp out" in the house until you can get it back in order. If it is in really bad shape, haggle on the price. Maybe you are buying the land and barn and the house is free!

Looks like you would be about 2 hours from me and DH. @Devonviolet would be closer. Maybe she could recommend a good restaurant in her area, between me and her there ain't much, LOL.

Fantastic that you are getting such offers! GTM!! (git the money)  GTM and git on outa there!! Load 'em up and roll on to Texas! When you come to look at it, we will all have to get together. Then once you move here, maybe we could do a round-robin of lunch, taking turns at each other's places. That is a thinly veiled "look what we've done since last time you were here and praise me LAVISHLY about it"


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## Latestarter

That's too funny!  I would think it would be more along the lines of... "Oh, maybe while you're here, could you lend a hand with.....?" We could all round robin to help each other improve their property  Small amount of work rewarded by a BBQ dinner or something along those lines...


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## Ferguson K

I'm not way down by the coast. I'm several hours away from it! Texas is big, after all. 

If I remember correctly I'm about 2 hours from Bay? 

Either way I know they'll show you reasons to stay! 

I don't know if boarding would be something that would make you happy. It's a LOT of trouble. I comanaged a barn in Florida and the boarders were. ... catty. I've also boarded many places and I don't know that I would want to be in charge of that mess!


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## Mike CHS

That house looks like it has decent bones no matter how the inside is it can factor into the purchase price like has been said.


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## Devonviolet

I agree. You can do alot with a house with good bones. Like @Baymule said, you just need to factor that into it when you negotiate the purchase price.


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## Latestarter

Well... until the owner answers his/her phone, it's really a moot point!    I mean if you're serious about selling, you'd think you'd want to be able to be contacted, right?


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## Devonviolet

One would think . . . but, there you go, being logical!  

Maybe they aren't in a hurry . . . or decided not to sell, and forgot to remove the listing. OOORRRRR . . . listed it with a realtor & the changes haven't made it to Realtor.com.

I can't imagine trying to sell a property as FSBO from out of state.     It's just crazy to do that!


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## Devonviolet

Hey!  I just had a thought!  If you click on "More Info" it will take you to a list of realtors at the bottom of the page. I wonder if one of them could figure out how to contact the seller???


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## Baymule

I looked it up on trulia and at the bottom is 3 realtors listed, might want to give them a call. Same ones are listed on Zillow.

http://www.trulia.com/property/3236945062-15026-Us-Highway-259-N-Omaha-TX-75571

Michael Mayben 

(903) 207-3129
 (13)

Premier Agent
35 Recent Sales







 Tim Ball 
(806) 731-1189
 (0)
Premier Agent
4 Recent Sales






 Redfearn Real Estate 
(903) 354-0827
 (4)
Premier Agent
28 Recent Sales


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## Latestarter

Yeah, the problem with that is those folks are listed on the site for advertising purposes. So if they end up helping me, they're going to want a commission and if the FSBO seller isn't picking it up, then I have to pay it out of pocket.


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## babsbag

Those aren't horse stalls...they are kidding stalls.  Silly boy...stalls are for goats.


----------



## Mini Horses

Yes on commission deal.......yes on horse boarding can be a PIA as well as a lot of work -- either owners are there up your ahmmm or never show, then there is payment issue..... raise chicks instead.

Also, so many of us "retired" to work harder and harder   

I also see "enabler" tendancy showing up --  -- in these posts. 

In FL there was a property selling with the living quarter IN the barn.  Now it was a wonderful barn and quarters were for farm mgr but, no house had ever been built.   You can live in it   especially when goats are kidding, etc.


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## Baymule

Contact the county, give them the address and maybe they will give you the name and mailing address of the owner. With name and address, look 'em up on facebook. Property ownership is public knowledge.


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## Latestarter

yup


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## frustratedearthmother

You can probably do it online... in our county you can go to the BCAD (Brazoria County Appraisal District) and input the address...pops up with owners name, address, and tax value...


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## Latestarter

OK, that's all in the past now. Just spoke with the owner. He apologized that his phone wouldn't take a voice mail and said that he had posted additional pictures of the inside of the home and couldn't understand why they weren't showing. He said the home is an early 80's ranch on a slab, well water w/all new hardware (pump, tank, valves, controller), and septic with leach field (not aerobic! ), Propane tank (new) for hot water and stove, north pasture is leased out for cattle grazing, south field leased for hay. Both leases expire with the sale of the property, so I'd have the ability to renew them or not. He said nothing about the place is "pretty" as it's a working ranch, but the roof is good and no leaks, and he's done some painting and repair work inside, one bathroom is about to get new linoleum flooring and ceilings have been painted. 

I told him as soon as this place is under contract (Monday) I'd like to head down and look at the place. He said he's off work through Thursday, so no problem with me doing so. Place is still available and no pending offers.

Several more potential's here this morning, and another parked outside (on my LAWN! ) waiting for his realtor to show up. Had to go tell him to move his car back down the driveway.


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## frustratedearthmother

Whoo hoo!  This is so awesome!


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## Latestarter

OK, so the young buck who pulled up and parked on my lawn wants the place. His lease is up, he has horses, pre-approved and another purchase they'd been working on for months fell through. At this point I'm pretty sure the place will be under contract by Monday evening. Now I just have to worry about the appraisal as there are no comps. Hopefully the appraiser will take into account multiple presented contracts for the property in/at this price range.


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## Baymule

Pick the one that is NOT doing a FHA loan. They are murder, take forever to get the paper work done and their general purpose is to drag it out forever and make everyone miserable. It took THREE MONTHS from contract to closing on the house.  And it can take longer!   Tell your real estate sales person that you want your money and you want to move NOW.

This is the story of my journey.

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/we-won-the-bid-bought-the-farm.15593/

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/call-1-800-com-plain.15782/

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/signed-papers-on-house-today.16053/

http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/mobile-home-goddess.16253/


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## Goat Whisperer

So exciting! Do you have someone to watch the dogs for you? 

I can't wait for you to get into your new place and get some livestock of your own!


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## OneFineAcre

Sounds like things are falling into place


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## Latestarter

FEM, I couldn't agree more!  VERY awesome!  You know, depending on where you're located (in Arkansas isn't it?) maybe you'd be willing to do the couple hour drive south at some point to meet up if I end up in NE TX... Don't you have Lamancha goats that you breed?  Hmmmmmm....

OK Bay, you held me enthralled through some 60 pages of reading there. I don't EVER want to have to go through what you went through, not even for 30 thousand in sweat equity. My sanity and patience are worth so much more! And I no longer have the drive or inclination to take on a complete remodel like you did with your new home. At least not under "crunch" conditions where I HAVE to get it done in a specified time period. Just don't have that kind of energy anymore. I took 7 naps while reading, just because what you went through wore me out 

You have sold me on the realization that I will not even look into the possibility of buying a HUD home! As for the FHA financing, I did those on purchases and refis as a loan counselor and never had any of the issues you had and can only assume it was because you were doing it on one of their (HUD) homes. Never pit two sides of the same (inept/incompetent) organ against each other...

Yes GW, my neighbor across the street will take care of the animals while I'm on the road. If I can talk my daughter into coming and staying the next weekend, I may hit the road again to look at other properties. Then I need to get packing!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

You are close.      South of Houston and ZERO LaManchas, lol!  (even though I might have to give them a try someday...I'm about over these Nubians!)

But, if it works out - I'd LOVE to be there!


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## Baymule

@Latestarter I read over those threads myself and it made me so glad that it is behind me! Whew! Look for the buyer that has the best loan, so you can get it over with and MOVE! We are still working, although we are in hug-the-AC-hibernation-mode right now. There was nothing here but the doublewide and 8 acres. Nothing. We still haven't finished the fencing.

Between @Devonviolet and me, we already have you moved in! 

@Ferguson K just got some real nice registered Lamanchas, she is in Trinity county.


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## Latestarter

You know, I built two chicken mansions... http://www.backyardchickens.com/g/a/6699406/the-hen-hacienda-s/ 
seriously, they are almost to house construction standards and made two enclosures in each because I thought I'd be buying 4 breeds and would be raising chicks, hatching and selling them etc. Ended up selling hatching eggs instead for almost 5 months, so never got into it myself. Saved me a lot of time and effort as well as mess and clean up. There's a reason for that story...

I really envisioned getting a high quality papered nigie buck (or 3) and several (or a dozen) high quality papered Lamancha does and then breeding high quality mini manchas... Not necessarily all the way through to F6, but just for folks who wanted great milkers of a smaller stature than a full sized goat. I mean I might have followed it down line a little farther over time, who knows, but that's where I wanted to start. I was also intending to get a full papered Lamancha buck as well to breed standard sized, show quality goats. Many folks claim to love Lamanchas, but it has been VERY difficult for me to find more than a scattered few available, quality, breeders...

I made contact with 2 well known show breeders out here: http://www.ranchosnowfall.com/index.htm   &  http://www.southforklamanchas.com/  Talked with both owners several times and due to inadequate communications in both cases (not entirely on my part), never got the goats from them that I wanted to get. It may have been because I revealed to them what I intended to do with the animals I wanted to buy from them as they are "show folks". So I've now learned to  (well, maybe not so well).  I wanted does from both places to ease the downstream breeding/cross breeding/line breeding issues.

So when I get to my new place, we'll see how much work needs to be done to get it "ready for use", then see if I still want to go that route or just get "some goats" and have fun with it. Not worry about producing/supplying  FFA and 4H kids, or showing or any of that.  Just have a bunch of goats and leave it at that. We'll see. I'm pretty sure I also mentioned that I'd like to get some meat sheep as well, and some hogs, and who knows what all else...

Fem, if you're south of Houston I wasn't EVEN close! That's a long way from Arkansas!  SO now I have to figure out who it is on here that's in Arkansas that breeds Lamanchas... Harumph... Oh well 

My biggest tummy acid producer at the moment is the upcoming appraisal... There are ZERO comps for this place... I mean zero. And the fact that I only paid 162K for it in late 2013, would indicate a 57% value increase over 2.5 years. If the buyer is going with a VA or FHA loan, it will be very difficult to "work with" the appraiser to justify the sales price where the offers are written. Even having multiple offers at this price... the appraisers don't care if there are no other comps to justify it.


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## Devonviolet

WOW! Alot has happened since I last checked in. I was at the end of my wifi data month & had to conserve on data useage. Verizon switched me to the new month at 11:00 PM. So I'm good to go for another month.  Ah, the joys of living out in the country, with limited internet options. 

I'm glad you finally got in touch with the seller. It sounds promising and exciting.   I don't envy your cross country move though. I've done too many of those to count, and just thinking about it wears me out.  i told my dear, sweet daughter, if she wants to make another big move, she is going to pay a moving company to move us, if we are going to follow them again. 



Latestarter said:


> Fem, if you're south of Houston I wasn't EVEN close! That's a long way from Arkansas! SO now I have to figure out who it is on here that's in Arkansas that breeds Lamanchas... Harumph... Oh well



I suspect you are thinking of @goatgurl in Arklahoma. She has LaMancha's.

I want to get a couple Dairy goats - and am looking at MiniMancha's too! However, goatgurl has a smaller, sweet LaMancha doe, that she is saving for me, when we are finally ready for her. We aren't planning to do any serious breeding. I just want to milk & freshen the does, so we can keep getting milk.

We have to get our perimeter fence in first though, so we can get our goats out in the woods, to do their job of cleaning up the underbrush, so we can open up our woods.

The fencing is now going to have to wait until Fall. We just can't begin to attempt putting fence in with 100° temps (and 108° heat index  ).

If I was 20 years younger breeding might appeal to me. But, these days, we have to conserve our energy for the basics of keeping the homestead going.


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## Mini Horses

Got up with seller!!  

Now to really look and buy another place.   The barn offers a lot of options for use, other than horses.  

I can sure relate to the "just goats" statement.   Years ago I raised mini-horse, mini-donks, Boer goats -- ALL registered, shown, etc.  The paperwork is really important and a lot of work.   The hands on breeding,  promotion, etc.   At that time I loved it, had the patience to do it and so on.   Now, well most days I'd prefer to hug them, feed, milk, collect eggs, etc.   The relaxation factor -- and a lot of   yes, ageing.    I have THE best full sized Saanen, not registered, and love her!  Have reg mini-nubs, love them.  yep, while I see/know the good/bad of each type I just am not into the "improving the breed" mode anymore.  Yes, quality animals, often from registered stock!   I find chickens are smaller and a little more forgiving with their "needs".....and the hatching eggs are a nice way to pay for their feed.   I'm working on that now with some lines.  Plus, shorter time for "results" of efforts.   Not the pressure of GOTTA have customers.

Sounds like we are both in the "wanna JUST enjoy my little farm" stages.  Not a bad place to be! 

Can't wait until you get you contracts ferreted out!!!!   All you need now is a "pay cash" deal.....


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## Baymule

Your hen haciendas look nice enough to move into! I also am a member of the "just want to enjoy my animals" group. Just a hint, if you want to enjoy your chickens even more, give 'em a dirt floor. You don't have to constantly clean the floor, you can go deep litter with a variety of materials, it makes lovely compost, the hens absolutely love it and you only dig it out a few times a year. For starters, just wire in one of those nice horse stalls!


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## Latestarter

Thank you @Devonviolet it is/was @goatgurl I was thinking of!   Bay, I had actually thought of doing just that with a horse stall.  Another gent from VT, @Bruce has done that with a stall in his barn. Since I don't do/have horses that would give them a pretty huge indoor run area as well, though the thought of the barn center isle getting covered in poop isn't all that attractive...

Thanks Mini Horses I'm sure there are a lot of folks in "maintain" mode. Just a lot less work and more relaxing and enjoying what was worked so hard to get to.


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## babsbag

Sounds like you are on your way to a new adventure and that is just really exciting. I am so happy to hear things are working out and I am looking forward to a report on the place in TX. 

About FHA... we just refinanced our home with FHA and although I had heard horror stories it was really super easy. We had a horrible time trying to get it done with a conventional loan because of the manufactured home/5 acres/Schedule F on our taxes. But we had tried FHA with a different lender and got denied...it all depends on the underwriter.  It took us about a month.


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## Mike CHS

You do sound like you have given everything a bunch of thought.

For us this will still be a fairly easy season because we have reached the point after over 3 years of labor, we want to enjoy life for a bit.  The sheep are "dog broke" since we still need to finish training the Border Collie.  We will only have the 5 acre paddock fenced off so he won't have to work too hard.  We took the day off today and went fishing.  

The humidity was through the roof but we had fun anyway.


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## Devonviolet

Wow Mike! Nice mess o' fish ya got there!  

MAN!  I wish we had a pond!


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## Mike CHS

I wish we had a pond also.  

That little lake is about 20 miles away but it is full of fish.


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## frustratedearthmother

What time is the fish fry?


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## Ferguson K

There are several people in the area that raise lamancha around me within an hour's Drive. I can help you look around, as I've come in contact with a few of them over the last year.

As far as the new house goes when you do get moved into it and or come down to look at it it would be really nice if we made an excuse to come up there and say hi. It would be nice to see Bay again anyway. It would give John and I an excuse to come say hello to her and her husband.


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## Mini Horses

Holy cow!  or chicken houses!!   

Are they on the property where you are now?   Geesh, how would the appraiser add that to value?     Tell him they are "guest houses"  

Oh -- I will NEVER, EVER let my flock see those pics!!!!!!!!


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## babsbag

I was wondering if he could move them and take them with him.


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## Latestarter

Holy moly Mike! That's one serious mess of fish! I'm sure catching those was fun! Eating them ought to be fun too! There are supposed to be bass, crappie/brim, and cats in the pond on the property I'll be looking at. I asked if it was spring fed and he said no, its all run-off, but even during that horrendous drought TX had, it never went dry. He also stated that there are several other spots that could hold ponds. We'll see...

 Mini Horses I built those hen haciendas and believe it or not, several home viewers have asked me if I'm taking them with...   I drop jaw and stare at them and say those things are permanent.. Would take a bulldozer to knock them down or a cat 4 tornado or some such. No way I'm moving them! Many also ask if the lawn tractor goes with and I say it's "all" negotiable and the tractor can go but the Harley can't. 

I really look forward to meeting the entire TX contingent, but I'm really doubtful that I can make that happen on this trip. I'll be leaving either tomorrow night or Tuesday and hope to look at multiple properties while there, then turn around and drive back. It's a 14-15 hour drive each way and I'll go straight through there, then straight through back. I hope to get a couple hours sleep at some point while there, but don't even know if that will happen. If I decide to write a contract on one, I'll need a RE lawyer for the FSBO or a REA if one of the others meets the cut. If the property is right, I expect to have an offer to present before I leave to return here.

I really hope it all falls into place as I don't want to have to turn right around and head to KY...


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## Baymule

Oh you are NOT going to Kentucky!! 

Today is the day you take an offer on your house.  Waiting. On. News.

On the contract, look up title companies and call them. I think they can do the preliminary paperwork for you. When we sold our house in Livingston, we just used the title company. We sold our house with no contract, no earnest money, just a handshake.  But I do believe the title company can take care of it for you.


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Oh you are NOT going to Kentucky!!
> 
> Today is the day you take an offer on your house.  Waiting. On. News.
> 
> On the contract, look up title companies and call them. I think they can do the preliminary paperwork for you. When we sold our house in Livingston, we just used the title company. We sold our house with no contract, no earnest money, just a handshake.  But I do believe the title company can take care of it for you.


I'm with Bay, on all counts!  NO, you are not allowed to go to KY!    you have already gotten our hopes up, promising to move to TX.  

We sold our condo in PA, (word of mouth buyer [sister of a friend], no realtor, cash sale), before we moved to TX. We called a local title company, & they handled closing for both us *and* the buyer. It went really slick, with minimal fees.  We chose a 6 week closing time frame. But, they could have done it much faster.  Our Hopkins County, TX title company did an amazing job as well.


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## misfitmorgan

Also waiting...


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## Baymule




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## frustratedearthmother

X20000000000000


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## babsbag




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## Latestarter

OK, update. Spoke with a REA in TX about a property he had listed that is no longer on the market.  http://www.zillow.com/savedhomes/fo...82,28.758028,-103.447266_rect/6_zm/1_rs/1_fr/ 
I had Emailed him about it back in April and he answered me straight away. Anyway, wanted to ask him what happened with the property and I guess the folks would not come down on the price. I asked if he could contact them and see if they would show it to me while I'm there. He did, and they will, and I have their contact info and they have mine. I will visit there the same day as I visit the other primary FSBO property. They are no more than maybe 10 miles from each other.  There is a less desirable (but substantially smaller and less expensive) fall back property I can also look at a little further east and south.

He will represent me and handle all paperwork/contracts/closing /inspections/etc. on the FSBO for 1.5% of sales price, to which I agreed. He would technically be entitled to a full commission should I buy the above property since it's been less than 90 days and I contacted them through him. But he said perhaps he can work something out for less to give them room to come down a bit more as I'd be looking at 150-155 and they don't want to come down from like 169 (or maybe it was 165.9K when they ended the listing, can't recall). Either way, I have 2 nice properties to look at while there. Either would work and each has there own pluses and minuses. I'll probably run on here and spell them all out when I get back.

When I told the REA I needed a property that would allow me to shoot my high powered rifles, he said damned right! You need to get yourself down here! We have just the place for you! He also told me there are some monster bucks back in the wildlife area the primary property backs up to. 

OK, so I still don't know when I'm leaving here, so no idea when I'll be arriving there, but HOPE to leave tonight and be there tomorrow. (have my doubts on that) I now have another showing sched for this evening ~6pm... @Ferguson K stated she and her DH would like to come north to visit Bay again while I'm there but since I have no idea exactly when that will be, we might have to wait to meet until I'm moved down there. Might be too hard to arrange time off from work etc. this trip. I do however look forward to meeting you guys at some point soon! I'll also want to discuss those Lamancha breeders you know!!  Thank you! 

I guess the places I'll be looking at are going to be closer to where @Devonviolet and her DH lives. Like an hour or so away... And I guess @Baymule lives a further hour or so south of them... Once I have a basic idea of when I'll be there, is there any way Bay, that you could come north with your DH to meet DV and her DH and I meet up with all of you? Maybe a restaurant in the Sulpher Springs area? For a late lunch or early dinner? I don't know how much lead time you need as you have animals too. Sorry this is such a cluster... I'm doing the best I can with what I know.

OK... I need to go do an oil and filter change on the truck in prep for this road trip. Back later with any updates!


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## frustratedearthmother

WooHoo - safe travels!


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## Latestarter

Just spoke with my REA... there are right now FIVE... yes FIVE... offers with 2 more supposed to be delivered within hours, and as stated, another showing this evening, which I may cancel. I never expected 7 offers. amazing....
Right now, it looks like the highest offer is @265K (listed @240K, also the lowest offer. NO low balls!) He's gonna come by here to present them around 4-4:30. If there's one above the rest, then tonight's showing will go away, and I'll be either signing or countering. Oil change is done, now to go get a quick lube for the truck and I'll be ready to hit the road. Gas tank is already full!

This is amazing and exciting and scary as all hell! REA says he feels good about the appraisal coming in, aside from the 7 offers.


----------



## Mini Horses

I'm just SOOOO excited for you.   REA for 20+ yrs....your agent knows the appraisers and properties to compare. 

I sure hope you remembered to pack a few things to take on this trip I know you have been busy, busy, busy!   

Pillow & blankie in truck, in case a truck stop nap is all you have time for.  Bottles of water, cooler, snacks/sandwiches.    I can TELL this will be a crunch trip!


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## Latestarter

OK, went through 7 offers, one being a last minute upgraded offer from the first folks who submitted the deadline. 

The highest offer when my REA got here was the 265K offer. Turns out that offer was submitted sight unseen by the people who showed up right after him, to see the property. I gave them the tour and at the end they said they really hoped I would consider their offer as it was submitted 10% higher than the asking price (the $265k offer was theirs). After they left, my REA informed me that while I was walking them around, the very first folks who offered, submitted a new offer at $275K _*SOLD!*_
I'm really glad that she got the place   Super nice young lady with a horse needing a place they could call their own. Dad has her and the horse at his place right now and the neighbors are NOT happy about it. They will pay up to $2500 above appraised value up to offer price. Closing on/about 9/22. Possession 48 hours after close.  My REA will Email what I need to sign shortly and thereafter, I'll be on the road.

Headed to TX! Be there tomorrow afternoon. So I'll be away from the site till later in the week. Hope to bring back great news!


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## Devonviolet

WOOHOO!!!    Way to go Latestarter!  Congratulations!


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## Goat Whisperer

A HUGE CONGRATULATIONS!!!


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## Mike CHS

Amazing how fast destiny changes.  Good for you!!!!


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## Mini Horses

CONGRATS!!!!   Have a safe trip!!!


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats and safe travels!  Hope you find a place that fits your wants and needs!!


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## Baymule

Wow! What a crazy real estate market! It sure works to your advantage, happy for you and happy for the buyer. You please be careful on your way here and back. I don't know if you will have time to do anything beyond race around looking at properties, but I sent you a PM. I am so excited for you! If you are away from the site for the whole time you are gone because of no internet, then you need a SMART phone!! Make it an Apple I-Phone!


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## frustratedearthmother




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## Ferguson K

It's amazing how fast this all went for you! Safe travels, friend!


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## misfitmorgan

Awesome congrats Latestarter!! Good luck on the hunt for a new house


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## OneFineAcre

Good luck finding a place.
It looks like you have a couple of good candidates.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Pick the one that is NOT doing a FHA loan. They are murder, take forever to get the paper work done and their general purpose is to drag it out forever and make everyone miserable. It took THREE MONTHS from contract to closing on the house.  And it can take longer!   Tell your real estate sales person that you want your money and you want to move NOW.
> 
> This is the story of my journey.
> 
> http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/we-won-the-bid-bought-the-farm.15593/
> 
> http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/call-1-800-com-plain.15782/
> 
> http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/signed-papers-on-house-today.16053/
> 
> http://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/mobile-home-goddess.16253/



@Baymule 
Ok i just got done reading the whole saga and now i am sad.....you never showed pictures of what it looks like finished 

im dying to know how the floors came out


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## babsbag

I get excited just thinking about this journey and it isn't even mine. So glad the offers came through like they did and praying that the appraisal will go ok too. Have fun and see the sites.


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## Bruce

animalmom said:


> Whoopy!  Latestarter is coming to Texas!  We'll try very hard to be patient and let you get settled in and fencing up and then tempt you with goaties!



Huh? You are supposed to go HELP him put up the fencing then "accidentally" leave a few goats behind when you depart  Oh, and if you can't think of a housewarming gift, I think a 300' roll of no climb fence would be greatly appreciated. Don't forget the T-posts and clips. That would be like giving the camera with no film (happened to my wife one Christmas when she was a kid) and my Dad was INfamous for giving my cousins toys that needed batteries (not included by the manufacturer or him).


Latestarter said:


> That's too funny!  I would think it would be more along the lines of... "Oh, maybe while you're here, could you lend a hand with.....?" We could all round robin to help each other improve their property  Small amount of work rewarded by a BBQ dinner or something along those lines...



Right, old fashioned barn raising!



Latestarter said:


> You know, I built two chicken mansions... http://www.backyardchickens.com/g/a/6699406/the-hen-hacienda-s/
> seriously, they are almost to house construction standards and made two enclosures in each because
> 
> So when I get to my new place, we'll see how much work needs to be done to get it "ready for use", then see if I still want to go that route or just get "some goats" and have fun with it. Not worry about producing/supplying  FFA and 4H kids, or showing or any of that.  Just have a bunch of goats and leave it at that. We'll see. I'm pretty sure I also mentioned that I'd like to get some meat sheep as well, and some hogs, and who knows what all else...
> ....
> My biggest tummy acid producer at the moment is the upcoming appraisal... There are ZERO comps for this place... I mean zero. And the fact that I only paid 162K for it in late 2013, would indicate a 57% value increase over 2.5 years. If the buyer is going with a VA or FHA loan, it will be very difficult to "work with" the appraiser to justify the sales price where the offers are written. Even having multiple offers at this price... the appraisers don't care if there are no other comps to justify it.



What you paid for it 2.5 years ago has nothing to do with what it is worth now. I bought my first house over 30 years ago for ~$50K. Sold it 5 years later for about ~$100K. Of course the house I bought for $100K would have sold 5 years earlier for $50K as well. The market can be "stupid".

And if the house needs serious work, you can put a cot in one of the stalls, the dogs can decide which of the other stalls they each want. That barn looks nicer that a lot of homes.



Latestarter said:


> Thank you @Devonviolet it is/was @goatgurl I was thinking of!   Bay, I had actually thought of doing just that with a horse stall.  Another gent from VT, @Bruce has done that with a stall in his barn. Since I don't do/have horses that would give them a pretty huge indoor run area as well, though the thought of the barn center isle getting covered in poop isn't all that attractive...



Not quite Joe  I thought I was doing deep litter back before I was educated on it. I'm just doing deep bedding on horse mats over 1/2" hardware cloth (to make sure no "cute" little ermines can get in) over dirt. I just rake through it each morning and because it is a horse stall, there is a TON of ventilation on 3 sides (pre-existing 2x4 welded wire and 1/2" hardware cloth). And because it is an ANCIENT barn, no shortage of air moving through it. 

Having the barn alley "indoor run" is a huge bonus. No effort to create it and WAY bigger than what they would get if I DID have to create a run. I don't really notice the poop on the run floor. It is dirt, it has shavings and an ever increasing accumulation of pistachio shells (wife has some every day). Just kick some dirt or shavings on a poop if you see one. 



Latestarter said:


> ....
> 
> He will represent me and handle all paperwork/contracts/closing /inspections/etc. on the FSBO for 1.5% of sales price, to which I agreed. He would technically be entitled to a full commission should I buy the above property since it's been less than 90 days and I contacted them through him. But he said perhaps he can work something out for less to give them room to come down a bit more as I'd be looking at 150-155 and they don't want to come down from like 169 (or maybe it was 165.9K when they ended the listing, can't recall).
> 
> I guess the places I'll be looking at are going to be closer to where @Devonviolet and her DH lives. Like an hour or so away... And I guess @Baymule lives a further hour or so south of them...
> 
> ....



Great deal on the REA. Sounds like a reasonable person. Cut the commission to be commensurate with the amount of work needed.

I'm surprised @Devonviolet and @Baymule are not requiring you to find a place between them 



Latestarter said:


> ....
> 
> After they left, my REA informed me that while I was walking them around, the very first folks who offered, submitted a new offer at $275K _*SOLD!*_
> I'm really glad that she got the place   Super nice young lady with a horse needing a place they could call their own. Dad has her and the horse at his place right now and the neighbors are NOT happy about it. They will pay up to $2500 above appraised value up to offer price. Closing on/about 9/22. Possession 48 hours after close.  My REA will Email what I need to sign shortly and thereafter, I'll be on the road.
> 
> Headed to TX! Be there tomorrow afternoon. So I'll be away from the site till later in the week. Hope to bring back great news!



And you were worried you wouldn't get the asking price! Congratulations Joe, that "extra" $35K will be real helpful fixing up the "new" house. Frankly I'm floored by his $165K asking price. Sure wouldn't find that much land with a really nice and big barn and a house in any condition for that here.


----------



## Baymule

We met @Devonviolet and her wonderful husband in Sulphur Springs at Bodacious BBQ this evening. Our special friend @Latestarter met us there as well. My husband and I were tired from butchering 11 roosters today, and he was in a semi comatose state when Devonviolet called with the particulars of all of us meeting up. But he wanted to meet Latestarter, so he got ready and off we went.   Latestarter had driven all night, walked property all day in our blistering Texas heat and  we were tired, but we didn't hold a candle to his level of exhaustion! Bless his heart, his eyes were so red, it looked like somebody stabbed him in them.   He did say that after we ate, he was going back to his hotel and get caught up on his sleep before he drove back. just in case anybody was worried about him driving back to Colorado.....


It took all of a nano-second for all of us to be jabbering away. Nobody clubbed anybody over the head shouting "Shut up so I can talk!" but we came close. We had a great time, ate some good bar-be-cue and talked a LOT. Devonviolet told me I looked different. I replied, "I am wearing make up, you usually see me when my make up is dirt." 

As we were leaving, I yelled PICTURE! We gotta have a PICTURE! I handed my phone to a young lady and she obliged me by taking pictures.

Left to right, Devonviolet, her sweet husband, Latestarter, my long-suffering husband who indulges my special brand of crazy, and me. Are we a good looking bunch or what?


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## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> @Baymule
> Ok i just got done reading the whole saga and now i am sad.....you never showed pictures of what it looks like finished
> 
> im dying to know how the floors came out



I recently snapped a couple of shots of our 18 month old grand daughter playing with our dogs, which of course is much cuter than the floor!  Oh, and Latestarter said I was more than welcome to come do his floors.  and


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## Mike CHS

A good way to start my day was to see how you all finished yours.  I know Latestarter had to be beat.


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## frustratedearthmother

That's so cool that ya'll got to meet up!   Big question is::::   Did he like the property????????

And, yes - ya'll are a good lookin' group .  Maybe a little rowdy lookin' but nothing we Texican's aren't accustomed to, LOL!!


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> I recently snapped a couple of shots of our 18 month old grand daughter playing with our dogs, which of course is much cuter than the floor!  Oh, and Latestarter said I was more than welcome to come do his floors.  and
> 
> View attachment 20460
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 20461



Ty for the pics..the floors look nice. 

x2 did he like any of the properties?


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## Latestarter

After dinner, crashed hard for a 3 hour nap then woke up, so hit the road ~10pm last night. Just got home and let the dogs in and heard rushing water... Friggin pipe under the house broke!!! AGAIN!!!   Water off at curb, plumber on the way, so much for a shower and nap.  Will give all the details later.   I'm tired  

By the way, that is a horrible picture of me! I'm normally MUCH more slouched over


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> After dinner, crashed hard for a 3 hour nap then woke up, so hit the road ~10pm last night. Just got home and let the dogs in and heard rushing water... Friggin pipe under the house broke!!! AGAIN!!!   Water off at curb, plumber on the way, so much for a shower and nap.  Will give all the details later.   I'm tired
> 
> By the way, that is a horrible picture of me! I'm normally MUCH more slouched over



I was wondering if you plan on farming in those flip flops?


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## sadieml

Thing is, I've done just that MANY times!!!  I hate shoes, but learned from my Daddy never to run around the yard barefoot (I have no idea how many times I stepped, barefoot, on a smoldering cigarette butt as a kid)!!!  Hence, flip-flop farming fun.  It's the 4-F club, don't you know.

I had a horrendous week last week, spent 4+ hours at SS office both Thurs & Fri, took DH to meet her best friend of 3 years (on-line friends, and mailed Christmas presents only until now) 3 1/2 hours away in GA Saturday, slept in the car for 3 1/2 hours, then home by 1pm Sunday.  Haven't been on here since last week, and now I spend 45 mins catching-up on here.  MY GRACIOUS!!!

@Latestarter -       AMAZING!!!  I am sooo excited for you.  I remember when you 1st posted that FSBO property, and I thought it looked great at the time.
If you can get a deal on it, a little lower than the $165 they're asking, AWESOME.  That barn has SO much potential.  You can start your chickens and goats there, and then check-out the idea of boarding horses.  My boys work at a horse farm, shoveling horse-stuff for minimum wage.  They also do lessons.  The farm owner doesn't teach, 2 others do on farm-owned school horses, and he gets a cut.  It's $35 for a 1/2 hour and $45 for an hour here--some places charge more.  To board in a paddock with sheds, feeding stalls, no indoor stalls, is $250 a month.  Places that offer indoors or pasture cost more. That's not cheap, so could be a tidy little enterprise.  Anyway, you'll have plenty of time to decide about all the other things, while you hunt some of those bucks nearby!  I can't wait to hear how you liked the properties you looked at and which one you're gonna choose.  Man, I'm thinking my family needs to visit Texas REAL SOON!!!  We need to have a great big BYH throw-down in the Lone Star State!

Okay Joe, update us SOON, please.


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## Latestarter

OK, so I expected to arrive at the barn property right about noon. I pulled up to the gate at 11 and called the guy, he was ten seconds out, so timed well. Started by looking inside the house... it's a ranch, narrow and long, built in 3 separate segments. the original center section 2 bed 1 bath, a huge master with 2 walk in closets and a regular exterior door to the back yard added at one end, then 2 bedrooms added to the other end at another time. all parts are settling and there are "patched" separation cracks in the brickwork. The slab is also suspect as some of it appeared to be crumbling out from under the house. The layout was horrendous, the inside would need to be gutted, re-configured... just a total remodel. Most everything inside was original... appliances, fixtures, etc. and trashed. They did have a new AC condenser unit and outside blower unit, but the inside location was ridiculous and they had the drain pipe running through the front of the house and out into the front planter. There were dead wasps on the floor throughout the house meaning the attic has an infestation and they're in the duct work.

Both barns were in serious need of work. The big one you can see was a mess, dirty, not cared for Major overhaul needed with repairs. The smaller one behind the house was trashed and best use would be for demolition practice. The ~40 acres was beautiful, but way overgrown, weedy, uncared for, and needing serious work. Fence lines completely overgrown, etc. major problem with invasive plants. The entire property would basically need to be re-set and started from scratch. I told the owner I'd let him know then went to see the other property.

It's a 2000sqft+ 2003 manufactured on piers/pilings with skirting. So no VA/FHA loan available (I suppose I could install a fixed concrete foundation then refinance). In pretty decent shape but needs new flooring throughout and the exterior mud room door replaced (a crook tried to jimmy with a crowbar). They just finished completely fencing the perimeter of both properties (it's split with ~10 acres across the road) with 5 strands of barbed wire. So I'd need to run hot wire, but they cut an inside path ~ 3 feet wide around the entire perimeter as well, so easy to do. They also already have several pastures cross fenced. 2 car garage, but no barn/animal outbldg(s) which I'd need to build/place. Both sides of the road are mostly wooded and filled with ruminant treats to eat. In addition, both sides have electric, wells, septic, and leech fields, so the smaller parcel could have a home put on it and sold off, or rented out as a horse property. On the main side (~30 acres) there's a wet weather creek bed some 5 feet deep that splits the property and I could clear an area, dig it out and dam it up to form a retention pond that could cover several acres in size and a couple of good rains would most likely fill it. I could consider it sweat equity... and the swim in it to wash the sweat off.... (edit to add this would be on the same side of the road - large parcel, and in addition to the pond they already dug)

The man for prop #2 was at work, so I met the wife and she gave me a tour on their 4wheeler over the entire property. They let the listing expire because they were unwilling to come down on price. I told the REA that I know he's entitled to a commission if I buy it, but if I had gone with my own REA he only would have gotten 1/2 or 3% of the original 6, and he would act as the paperwork broker for 1.5%, so if he'll accept the 3% and I pay 1/2 of it, the sellers would be able to come down to my offer price and still net about the same as they would have with a full price offer and a full 6% REA commission. I told her that I need to think about it but that I can see myself submitting an offer to buy their place. She seemed OK with it. I'd also buy all new appliances. The stove/dishwasher are originals and at 13 yrs old, need gone. The refer is new and she wants to keep that. (It's black where everything else is cream so it doesn't match anyway)

Then went back to the barn property (the owner was going to be there doing maint work all day) and basically told him I couldn't buy his property because the sheer amount of work that needed to be done was just so overwhelming to me. I mean totally daunting! The land was very exciting, and has huge potential, but I'm just one old tired guy, with no heavy equipment, and insufficient pocketbook (or strength of body) to cover all that needed to be done to make the place what it could be. Best case would be to bulldoze the existing house and start over. Even the bones of that place were over-stressed and fragile. Just to clean the place up would have taken probably 3 of those large RORO dumpsters, with an additional one for the gut of the home. It's priced where it is for a very good reason. And the cost to make it the special property it could be would be way over the possible short term return. Would take years to gain enough sales value to recoup cost of re-doing it.

Did a quick update when I got home, and Bay already shared about the evening's festivities, so not much else to cover. The dinner was great, the company shared was greater. If I hadn't been so tired, and everything hadn't been so hastily thrown together, I'm quite sure we could have sat there for several more hours spinning yarns. Hopefully, next time we all get together, @Ferguson K and her DH will be able to make it, and maybe even @frustratedearthmother & @animalmom  can make the trip. 

I'll sleep on it and contact the REA down there tomorrow. OK, don't beat me up too much, but I still want to do one more gander over KY way. When last I looked, there wasn't really anything over there that was grabbing my attention. I'm only gonna get one shot at this and I don't want to look back with regrets... Not a huge fan of heat and humidity, but like y'all said, that's only for ~3 months, and the rest of the year is great. As I get older, I'm not handling cold too well anymore either. Why can't it stay like a perfect fall day year round? Cool but comfy 65-70 degrees, light breeze, warming sun, a few puffy clouds, and fall foliage to ease/improve the view... just love it...

Never did get the nap I wanted/intended. Nor the shower to lead into it. I have a small lake under the house but the pipe has been repaired. The city replaced the water meter & cover while I was gone and I don't think that (pressure change) caused the break, but may have contributed. It was the same issue as the last break... a "T" busted off right at the root. He said the floor is wet, but not soggy, & will dry out quickly with the dry heat we have here. I just hope the lake is gone before they have a home inspector come by. Though I really don't anticipate any home inspector will climb all the way under and to the back corner anyway. Could be wrong... time will tell. They accepted and signed the counter changing it to occupancy 48 hours after close and close time TBD by the listing realtor.

I really don't want anything else to go south on me between now and mid-late September.


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## Bruce

Yeah boarding horses depends a LOT on who is boarding and what they want. When we bought this house November 2011 there was a lady that was boarding 2 horses and a pony here. She and her husband did ALL the work. Came in the morning before work to let them out into the pasture and give them their "daytime" hay. Came back after work to clean the stalls, bring the animals back give them their grain. All I was responsible for was making sure there was working electricity and water in the barn. She sold the Thoroughbred and the other horse in the Spring and moved the pony closer to where she lived because her life got complicated due to her mother's health. Nice while it lasted.

Then there is the other end of the spectrum. People who have horses and MIGHT visit them on weekends. The facility is responsible for ALL the horse care. You better know what you are doing if you go into the deep end. I personally know almost zero about horses so I wouldn't do anything much more that what I described above. I could take the horses out of the barn and give them their predetermined amount of hay and bring them back in and make sure they had clean water daily but if any health problems came up they would have to be REALLY obvious REALLY fast.


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## Bruce

Too bad about that first house but like you said it was priced as it was for a reason. The second does sound more reasonable. How big is the road that divides the property? Rural dirt without too much traffic? 

And though there are some Texans that might disagree  I think you are right to give another pass through properties in Kentucky just in case the perfect one happens to pop up right now as you are READY to buy vs "window shopping" as in the past. I know, don't mess with Texas! But it is a really long way from there to here and I'm sure the drop would have the round hit dirt long before it got to me 

And what is wrong with older appliances? They USED to make them to last. I have a 26 Y/O refrigerator at the old house and a Sears dryer that is probably 35. Both still work JUST fine  The only repair ever made to the refrigerator was taking out the fan, cleaning and oiling it then putting it back. And the dryer needs new "door holder upper" cables. Don't write off the "golden oldies" too fast, after all they are US!


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## Latestarter

It's a regular (width), paved, county road, sees some traffic in morning and afternoon for workers at a mill down the road a ways, but other than that, very quiet. The whole time I was there, I don't recall a single car going by (1.5 hours?). Not a major route to/from anywhere (except that mill for some workers). The neighbors are absentee, and the property backing the main parcel is owned by a tree farm that logged it a year or so ago, so they won't be doing anything back there for decades. The property behind the smaller parcel is a field used for hay, and the neighbors over there are very genial I understand... Her horses escaped over there before they got the fence fixed/up, and that neighbor called her and just said "get them when you get around to it..."


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## babsbag

I don't know what the requirements are for foundations but I would check into a USDA loan. I was told that FHA wouldn't finance more than 5 acres. But that being said my girlfriend has a manufactured home that has piers and skirting and it is still considered a permanent foundation, depends on how the home is anchored to the piers and what kind of piers. It also seems to vary by location and underwriter. 

The second place sounds good...pictures???


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## Latestarter

I didn't take any while there as I felt it would be obtrusive since it wasn't even listed anymore... 
If you don't have zillow: http://www.trulia.com/homes/Texas/Naples/sold/1003132388-10038-Fm-250-N-Naples-TX-75568


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## OneFineAcre

I can't remember
Why were you focused on TX and KY?
I know NC attracts a lot of retirees
A lot of military retirees in particular
I know in the Mtns and down east land is reasonable
Of course we seem to be in the national spotlight recently over who uses what bathroom


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## babsbag

It will only let me see the first picture. ???  

Don't forget things like internet access when you are looking for land. That has been a real challenge for us, I HATE satellite and data caps.


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## Mini Horses

AHA!!   I noticed those flipflops.....thought, hope he wasn't walking property in those.   Nice a 4 wheeler was used so you could see all around.    You sound a tiny bit disappointed that you didn't find a place that "spoke to you".   But, check out those other areas you liked.  

Hey, long, long trip -- home to a flood -- best part was dinner & meet-up.   I'm having a beer for you right now!   It's cold and refreshing -- especially since I just went out to close chicken coops and found 4 big piggies out of their pen.   Magic bucket got them back quickly.

Hope you are relaxing as I'm having this drink for you...perhaps we are having one together, who knows.

Soooooooooo.....you have 30 days to buy.   You can get a moving company to transport a container for you....rent a motel for a couple weeks, if things don't line up time wise.    I have a garage aptmt you could use  BUT  I'm in VA.      OOOPS......


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## babsbag

There are 47 other States to consider...well 46 since we know that CA is not in the running and I am guessing that HI and AK are out of the equation too. Me...I have to live east of the Rockies since I am not programmed for humidity but it seems like the USA is your oyster so go for it.


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## Ferguson K

There's some really nice places all around is that aren't listed online. We drive all over this part of TX visiting friends and family, and delivering foster dogs. 

Maybe set up a time to just drive around? Driving May show you properties you've missed, but, it's a PITA.


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## Devonviolet

Well Latestarter, look elsewhere (KY & beyond), if you must. You need to find the property that is perfect for _you_!  I've learned, from past experience, that if you are open to guidance from above, you will just _know_ when you find the right property.  
I think Bay & I agree that we hope it will be here in beautiful East Texas!     We sure did enjoy meeting and sharing a meal of Texas BBQ with you!


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## Latestarter

I would have liked NC for the simple reason that I love the ocean and would have been in range of decent offshore fishing. I couldn't have afforded what I want out near the coast and thinking of buying over in the mnts brought back memories of the movie Deliverance  Just kidding 

No, when I started considering the move, I looked at taxes first and foremost. Income, inheritance, property, sales... just taxes in general and what ones would most affect me. Then I considered politics and "freedom/rights" violation/infringement. I also looked at places with overbearing and intrusive govt, exhaustive rules and regs, just too much govt. Then I looked at cost of living in general and ability to be self sufficient; grow/raise my own food year round. In a couple of years I'll be fixed income with mil retirement and social security. Neither would be taxed in KY or TX. Neither state has inheritance tax issues that would affect me. TX property taxes are high, the only real detractor to there. KY has very low prop taxes and low sales taxes.

Then of equal importance, I've lived in jungle and desert and wanted something in between... I really like cooler weather, don't do well in high heat and humidity (you can only take off your clothes when hot, but can always put more on if cold). Fall season and all that goes with it is my fave time of year. I wanted access to water (year round) without having to "buy" it from the "govt". I wanted to be able to take a crap and not have to pay the "govt" for each flush. And I needed land that was reasonably priced in an amount that would give me room to breath and not have nosy "neighbors" in my knickers every time I turned around. If I want to walk out on my back porch naked and piss over the rail, I don't want to fear jail time for "indecent" exposure... I'm not forcing anyone to look. I like shooting and if I want to bust caps on my property, I don't want jail time because a neighbor thinks I'm shooting at them, or fearing me because they're scared of guns, or thinking I'm deranged because they believe what the liberal brain washers are force feeding them. 

But I also wanted to be within reach of "civilization" when I wanted contact with it. I'd love Alaska (been there), but I don't want to be that remote and unreachable from my family (kids and grands). Just because I don't like "most" people and dislike/avoid crowds, doesn't mean I want to be a hermit with no human contact at all. I'd just prefer that contact be of my choosing. So I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist, and I have seen this nation slipping into a state I'm not comfortable with, and those in power coaxing it along... I don't want to be within easy reach of large populations of people if something happens that's gonna mean life or death when "society" breaks down and it becomes a dog eat dog, survival of the fittest (best armed) world. Not going there right now  Let's just say I'm prepared to handle reasonable amounts of zombies. Having a few close friends/acquaintances like you folks here and in East TX would benefit the entire group.

I seriously considered buying a motor home or pull trailer for the truck and just becoming a nomad for a few years and wandering around following the seasons... north for cooler summers and south for warmer winters. But now I have this (rather large) dog that needs a large confined area and little animals to watch. I don't feel right having him on a chain or restraint, and he is rather independent and doesn't "mind" all that well. He has his own "mind" and likes to wander. That's fine as long as he has an enclosed, "fixed" area that he can own. I also have a lot of weapons that I won't sell or give away, can't really leave laying in a storage pod someplace, and could get myself locked up for simply owning/possessing in certain states, so being a nomad only works just so well  But over the course of a couple years, I thought maybe it would allow me to find that perfect place to plant and stay for the remainder of my life.

And Kate, you are so right! There are literally thousands of available properties that are NOT on the web! But I could spend the rest of my life seeking them all out looking for the perfect one, and probably still never see them all. Had to limit the search to something reasonable. Bottom line, there are beautiful pieces of property (available) in every state of the country... and I could live on virtually any of them if it came right down to it...

Babs, I think you meant WEST of the rockies vice East... Unless I'm misreading your mind/intent... And yes, I checked on internet service with every property I've looked at or been interested in. The 2nd property it is DSL I think through the phone line. and TV is via satellite. I'd have preferred high speed cable, but that's another of those things that "ties" you to being close to civilization at the moment. There is a pic there that indicates 21 other pictures... says photos and indicates 21... it opens for me...  Maybe if you take the address and cut/paste and search?

Several have now commented on the choice of breathable footwear  for the dinner engagement. No, I made sure I was wearing sneakers for the property viewing. I was aware of the possibility of ticks/chiggers as well as all manner of other biting insects as well as things like Bays favorite plant... green briars! And of course I got to tangle with the thorn bushes and raspberrys  during my tours of the properties. There was also (I believe) poison sumac and no doubt poison oak and ivy as well.

Mini horse, thanks for enjoying a beer for the both of us.   I rarely drink, and have less than a 6 pack of beer over the course of a year. When I do drink, normally at dinner on a night out, it's virtually always a double screwdriver (or two) in a tall glass. I really like it when they garnish it with a cherry or two and a slice of fresh orange.  Life's simple pleasures.

So I never got that nap earlier but spent the last several hours napping in my recliner while listening to the drone of the NFL channel. Now I think I'll end here and go try to get a decent night's sleep. Got a lot to do tomorrow. Including crawling around under the house (getting too old for this crap... why can't I have a basement?) Number 2 priority is starting the application process for a new mortgage loan for the purchase. I think I might hit it perfect right before the fed raises rates in September. We'll see.


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## babsbag

Oh yeah...west of the Rockies is what I meant.


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## Bruce

Sounds good Joe! Really nice it has that tree farm on one side. Not part of the property but nothing going on there other than a buffer between the property and the one 2 over.


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## AClark

I don't know about y'all but farming in flip flops is a must. I'd never wear shoes if I didn't have to! It only sucks when something heavy steps on your foot


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## NH homesteader

@Latestarter your last post made my day.  Property taxes are high here in NH but the rest is good.  We are left alone and our neighbors don't mind us.  Even on our shooting practice days!  The biggest problem is proximity to Mass and higher population states.  We are certainly also prepared for the zombies.  Even have a hiding place picked out haha.  You and my husband would get along! Good luck finding a place that fits the bill.


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## Latestarter

Oh man... Born and raised in taxachusetts... I feel your pain. Love the White Mountains and spent a great deal of time up in NH in my youth. When I first started searching I looked at property there (& ME and VT) but unless you want to be up by the Canadian border, there wasn't any sizable/decent properties anywhere near my price zone most were 1 or 2 acres and I was really searching for 10+ or larger.


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## NH homesteader

Yep that is true.  My husband and I are so fortunate that we both have longstanding family property holders, so my parents gave us 5 acres to start and we are saving up to buy their adjoining property.  And his father owns something like 1,000 acres if we ever get to that point! We briefly lived in CT,  I couldn't get out of there fast enough and get back home!


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## Latestarter

There is definitely something to be said for having family well established in a region over many years/generations.


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## babsbag

AClark said:


> I don't know about y'all but farming in flip flops is a must. I'd never wear shoes if I didn't have to! It only sucks when something heavy steps on your foot



Yeah, like a goat. 
Also I worry about snakes. I used to live in flip flops and clogs...then I saw the damage that a rattlesnake bite can do. DH just killed one last week, it crossed me path and that was a mistake but they are certainly in my neck of the woods.


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## Bruce

Ferguson K said:


> There's some really nice places all around is that aren't listed online. We drive all over this part of TX visiting friends and family, and delivering foster dogs.
> 
> Maybe set up a time to just drive around? Driving May show you properties you've missed, but, it's a PITA.



True. But often places that aren't listed are located in a VERY desireable location (which means different things to different people) and the price will be higher than the same place if it were located even 1/2 mile away. That is the case in my prior neighborhood. It is REALLY REALLY rare that you would ever see a house there listed with a realtor. Just tell your neighbors that you want to sell and they will get the word out. No open houses, no 6% for the realtor.


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## AClark

Since I grew up in AZ, we spent half the summer shooting rattlesnakes - I've luckily never been bitten but it is a life-long habit to watch where I put my feet. Since the winters are mild there too, they come out even mid-winter during the day. We had a horse bitten in the nose by one (we have mostly Mohave rattlesnakes) and she was comatose for 9 days with tubes up her nose. We had to go out and flip her over every 2 hours. She did recover though. One last summer wasn't as lucky, bitten in the neck, he laid down in the back 100+ acres and with the brush we couldn't find him, he finally came up for water several days later but ended up going down not far from there. Nasty darn things!
  I had a horse in mind when I was thinking of having something big step on your foot, heck they're so big they don't even realize they're on your foot while you're howling and pushing them off you - shoes or not! Mesquite thorns and goatheads are the enemy though.


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## Devonviolet

Ah yes . . . TAXES!  The bane of every property owner's existence!  More so in some states than others.

When we lived in PA, in a 600 sq ft (footprint -1200 sq ft total) condo, 4 miles outside York), our annual taxes were $4500!!!  And that was with the "homestead" deduction. Everyone wanted a piece of the pie. We had state, city, county & school property taxes.

Then, there was county and state income tax. If I'm not mistaken, the state even taxed our Social Security income, when the Feds didn't.   The BUMS!  

Here in Texas we have five acres. We qualify for the "homestead" and "senior" deductions, and our taxes are a hair over $1300. I complain, because the previous owners paid $930, with homestead & disability (same as senior) deductions. Not sure why we pay more on the same county appraised property. But, in reality I know we are getting off easy compared to many in this country. And a LOT less than in PA!

We also don't pay income tax here in Texas. In PA they always managed to get around $200+ out of us, even though our only income was SSI.

Now, if we could just get them to lower the sales tax, I would be much happier. Here in Texas we pay 8.25% sales tax on everything.  In PA we paid 6.125% sales tax and food & clothes were exempt.


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## babsbag

Our property tax in CA is only 1% of the appraised value and then I get a deduction as a homeowner. The appraised value is the price you buy it for and it can't be raised unless you do an improvement and then they can only add on the improvement value, they can't reappraise all of it. Not too bad. 

OK, I'm done, I think I just said everything good about the cost of living in CA is one paragraph.


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## NH homesteader

We have no income or sales tax but like I said,  man do we have property taxes!


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## babsbag

They get us one way or another; at least most states do. I figure I am just paying for my fabulous weather.


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## OneFineAcre

I was just looking on Realtor.com and saw a number of nice looking properties between Raleigh and the coast, here in NC

You caught my eye when you mentioned off shore fishing.  I love that too.

Some places abut an hour inland from either the Nag's Head/Oregon Inlet area, or Morehead City.


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## Mini Horses

Well I'm only 12 miles from NC......and can be at the Ocean or Chesapeake Bay or intercoastal waterway within an hour, with rivers all around & just a few minutes away!   I don't fish (seasick in boats) and I don't eat fish, except a very, very seldom tuna sandwich with LOTS of onion/grn pepper.     Boating is not my thing.   Small towns close, bigger cities 30-45 min out.

For me, sales taxes are the ONE type that everyone pays.  That includes those who do not pay property & real estate ones, so I grin & bear it.   Only when I buy something with a big price tag do I cringe....some of those have a lower rate than everyday commodities but, property tx later.  Va has some liberal inheritance amounts, so my kids won't have to be concerned  (especially if I spend it all before I check out).   State & Fed income not an issue for me.

This area -- and that in NC spoken about -- allows you to be in either the Ocean or mountains in about 3 hrs.   Seasonal temps....can get super hot/humid about 4-5 wks of summer but, winters generally mild.   I like this area and have considered moving elsewhere on occasion then ask myself "why?"    Good hospitals, military bases, reliable employment, a nice mix of city & country.   (moved here as my dad was in Navy 65 yrs ago)

Two days ago I had 2 beautiful does in one of my lower pastures -- nearer the woods behind me --  One saw me and ran, the other hesitated, then I saw her twin fawns from earlier this year not ready to jump that fence....they ran to the woods, over another fence and she went along.   I see this herd most every evening in the farmers field next to me as they graze his crop, my pastures and go back into their woods.    We have had considerable rain of late and there is a "new pond" in a spot in the field where about 50 geese stop in each AM & PM for a short eating spree.  Two days ago I saw 14 deer, at least 60 geese and a huge (!) tom turkey enjoying the evening cool down.   Lovely....

I believe every part of this country has some areas a person gravitates toward based on many things that make "that" person/family content.   You will find your special place.


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## NH homesteader

How well said! (no sales tax for me though! Although I buy so little it might be better for me because I don't buy as much  as many). Sounds lovely there!


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## Latestarter

I'm so not looking forward to the next three days... I'm going back on the road again tomorrow. Will be leaving after I run to the store and pick up dog food and chicken food for the neighbor to take care of the animals. This will be a 50%+ increase in drive time each way. Looking at 20-22 hours each way. I know my new friends in TX won't be glad to hear this, but I found my perfect property and I hope it's still available as the realtor will be showing it to another couple right before I get there. I asked her why she couldn't just NOT show them this place and show them some OTHER property... It's a little higher than I wanted to pay, but has everything I wanted and more. I rationalize that since mine sold for 35K more than list, it was meant to be, because I was meant to pay more for my purchase. Karma... so NOT complaining...

http://www.trulia.com/property/3069596666-450-Fultz-Rd-Morehead-KY-40351

I hope you can open all the pictures Babs.  

30 acres, 1/2 fields, 1/2 woods. Beautifully set up to build a central barn down by the shop bldg and fence off surrounding pastures off a centralized dry lot area. The owners said there are black bear, deer, and ELK! and that I can shoot them right off the back deck if I want!! Hell after 30 years of humping up and down mountains out here after elk, shooting one off the back porch is a no brainer! I LOVE elk meat! Surrounded on 3 sides by other larger land owners. Located a short distance outside the boundaries of the Danial Boone National Forest.

Stick built vice manufactured so VA loan is available and already applied for. hard wood floors. county water and septic.

Property is a distress sale. Owner fell ill and had to move in with daughter and her DH. They have court permission to sell with minimum sales price mandated. They tried FSBO and it appraised at over 225K Listed at 179.9K Hope y'all will keep me in your thoughts on this one...

13 miles out of Morehead, KY, 17 miles to I-64, 18, miles to Lowes, 19 miles to wally world.


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## Kusanar

Latestarter said:


> I'm so not looking forward to the next three days... I'm going back on the road again tomorrow. Will be leaving after I run to the store and pick up dog food and chicken food for the neighbor to take care of the animals. This will be a 50%+ increase in drive time each way. Looking at 20-22 hours each way. I know my new friends in TX won't be glad to hear this, but I found my perfect property and I hope it's still available as the realtor will be showing it to another couple right before I get there. I asked her why she couldn't just NOT show them this place and show them some OTHER property... It's a little higher than I wanted to pay, but has everything I wanted and more. I rationalize that since mine sold for 35K more than list, it was meant to be, because I was meant to pay more for my purchase. Karma... so NOT complaining...
> 
> http://www.trulia.com/property/3069596666-450-Fultz-Rd-Morehead-KY-40351
> 
> I hope you can open all the pictures Babs.
> 
> 30 acres, 1/2 fields, 1/2 woods. Beautifully set up to build a central barn down by the shop bldg and fence off surrounding pastures off a centralized dry lot area. The owners said there are black bear, deer, and ELK! and that I can shoot them right off the back deck if I want!! Hell after 30 years of humping up and down mountains out here after elk, shooting one off the back porch is a no brainer! I LOVE elk meat! Surrounded on 3 sides by other larger land owners. Located a short distance outside the boundaries of the Danial Boone National Forest.
> 
> Stick built vice manufactured so VA loan is available and already applied for. hard wood floors. county water and septic.
> 
> Property is a distress sale. Owner fell ill and had to move in with daughter and her DH. They have court permission to sell with minimum sales price mandated. They tried FSBO and it appraised at over 225K Listed at 179.9K Hope y'all will keep me in your thoughts on this one...
> 
> 13 miles out of Morehead, KY, 17 miles to I-64, 18, miles to Lowes, 19 miles to wally world.
> 
> View attachment 20530


That looks amazing! I really like KY, it's so pretty out there, never been to TX though so I can't compare the 2


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## Mini Horses

Why not submit a contract NOW...?

I mean, WOW.  Just look at it.  Can't be but so much wrong and certainly not as major as the others.  

That's an amazing place.   IF others have written before you see, do a backup...in case.


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## Devonviolet

Wow Latestarter. This property looks amazing! 

Of course Bay & I would love for you to move to our beautiful state of Texas. But, this property seems to check off all the boxes, and then some.


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## Hens and Roos

Good Luck with your travels


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## NH homesteader

Wow that's gorgeous! And that price... Wow.


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## frustratedearthmother

Mini Horses said:


> Why not submit a contract NOW


I'm with MH!  What's NOT to love about that place!

Safe travels!


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## OneFineAcre

@Latestarter 
You do realize that they have these new things called airplanes?

You like to drive a lot more than I do.


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## frustratedearthmother




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## babsbag

I got to see pictures this time. Beautiful place, I hope it is there waiting for you. Don't love all the green in the middle of summer? So different than CA. 

Think Brush Hog and Ivermectin.


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## Latestarter

I am really excited about this property! really!

I HATE TSA security and the crowds and the hassles...   with a PASSION!  If I had my own private plane I'd be flying everywhere, and often... The cost of flying coupled with hotels and rental cars is way more than the cost for me to drive it. For the most part driving relaxes me (on the open road, NOT in city traffic). 

Used to be a free country and it was no problem to freely go wherever one wanted, whenever one wanted, without having to be body scanned by the govt. Traveling anywhere by someone else's conveyance is a restriction of my freedom. In my wheels, I am free to come and go as I please, when I please. justsayin

On the road momentarily. Realtor there knows I'm coming. Wish me luck!  I'll be back probably late Sunday evening. I'll be sure to update when I return.  Oh, and at some point a ways back, someone pointed out that I can do this via cell phone... Yes, I have a smart phone. NO, I don't/won't use it for internet browsing, music listening, or many other things. Use it for GPS when necessary, texting when I have to, phone calls when I have no choice, and that's about it. Call me old fashioned


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## frustratedearthmother

You stayin' overnight?  Most hotels have business centers.... could use a computer there!


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## OneFineAcre

It's a nice looking place that's for sure.


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## babsbag

Yeah, what @frustratedearthmother said...hotels have computers...


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## OneFineAcre

Oh, I forgot.  The buck I'm getting was born in KY.

Just outside of Lexington which is about an hour from Morehead.
I think it's a sign.


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## Mike CHS

The terrain is simile to ours here in Tennessee and it never gets boring trying to figure out how to use it.  

Good Luck on however you go.


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## Baymule

Wow, that place is beautiful!  BJ and I both think you'd have to be nuts to pass this one up! We would love to have you in Texas, but we don't have elk. Really, that place is just what you wanted and there is bound to be  BYH, SS, BYC or TEG friends somewhere around there.


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## Goat Whisperer

Beautiful place! Hope it all works out for you!


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## sadieml

Hmmm...well, @Latestarter, that place in TX is about 13 hours from good ol' Blythewood, but that ol' KY home (sorry for the rotten joke, but I'm full of 'em, just ask my kids) is only 7 hrs away!  Of course, I do love my memories of trips to Texarkana to see Aunt 'Nita, but since the SC heat just about kills me these days, I don't think I could survive TX for long anymore.  Also, we could go a few hrs out-of-the-way on a potential trip to PA to visit DH's remaining family and visit KY.  You and DH would get along great, I'm sure, since he spends a lot of his ample free time planning for the Zombie Apocalypse.  You two could come up with some great ideas, I have no doubt! 

On a _slightly_ more serious note, that place looks incredible.  It really does seem perfect!  Of course deer, but elk AND bears?  WOW!!!  Sounds like it may have been made JUST FOR YOU!  AND it's still well within your budget, even allowing for some improvements--if you end-up needing any! haha  I bet I could even get my DH, who IS a recluse, btw, to visit you there with very little prodding.  Maybe we'll bring you a chicken or three!  The deck and grill are even ALREADY THERE!  ...and you know, goats love hills, and we have to pass through NC to get there, so we could maybe do a delivery of kids for you from @Southern by choice or @OneFineAcre!  Maybe we could just lead a wagon train there to have a welcoming party for you!  You know, welcome to the south, welcome to goat herding...

I'm just sayin' ... 

btw-Please be safe on the road!  Can't wait to hear the next update... ...


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## Latestarter

Thank you all... very much!  <---yeah, even the guys...  

OK, This has been just as difficult (and TIRING) for me! Left here right after my last post for KY. I guess around 10 oclock Friday when I actually left the driveway. That was noon there. I arrived at the property at 8am (there) the next morning. REA arrived right about 8:30 as we agreed. By then I had done some walking, was completely sweat soaked (90% humidity and HILLS!), and very disappointed.

The REA in KY was "moderately" "OFF" when she stated "gently rolling hills" for lay of the land... the ONLY flat spots were right around the house and right around the shop and kinda, the path between them... Everything else was either substantially up hill (the driveway entrance) or substantially downhill (just about everything else). If you look closely at that picture, you'll see kind of a path cut around through the scrub to the workshop from the house. Even THAT was down hill into the gully then back up hill to the shop. Everything to the left of that path was a 60 degree slope UP to the road. Everything below that path was a good 45-60 degree slope down into a drainage valley for the "bowl" that is where I was going to put pastures (to the left of the path). The house sat on a flattened top of a sloping (downward) ridge. The shop sat on a cut-out, flattened section, of the side of the opposite ridge.  There was no place to build a barn or even a decent sized run-out shelter. The grass slope behind the house was so steep I wondered out loud to the realtor how the heck the owner dared ride a lawn tractor across the slope without sliding out of the seat or tipping over. I'd have to think twice about doing it and the pucker factor would have been HUGE! Trying to go up that slope with a riding mower would be impossible... no traction. Going down it, you'd have to lock the brakes and you'd still slide too fast down and end up in the woods. 
I didn't even want to think about trying to fence it  There was no fencing. Oh, and that "scrub" I mentioned? Well, it was 6-8 feet tall and though a herd of goats could get lost in it, I'm sure they would have loved it... wild rose, black berry thickets, baby trees of about every variety that grows there, oak, maple, pine, fir, you name it. And of course head high weeds as well. Think about an area that was logged 10 years ago and then left to revert back. All I thought while looking at it was "my bees would be in heaven here"! I'm sure there's stuff in there blooming all spring, summer, and fall!

Man, I haven't been in humidity like that in a LONG time! Most of the 2nd half of the drive there was through rain. It was nice in the morning there, then a good portion of the return trip 1st half was rain... I turned right around from the property and started back. Got as far as 1/2 way across Misery... I mean Missouri... and crashed for the night. I was out around 7ish and woke up ~6ish got ready and hit the road again. Got home here I guess around 4ish. Spent the last while answering Emails from lender and REAs...

On the trip back, I texted the REA in TX and gave instructions to write an offer on the home there. Hopefully things will be more or less settled out tomorrow as I have buyers here who want to come by and look things over etc... Found out on the drive over to KY that I was pre-approved for a loan to buy that place. Of course I Emailed my LO when I got back to tell her everything has changed... She's gonna love me when she gets to work Monday...    I explained that I would need a TX closing early on Sept 26th Or I'll be one of them homeless vets. I also ionformed her I'd need conventional financing as that property won't qual for VA or FHA. Also won't qual for a USDA loan. I also sent all the info that I have on the TX property. Gonna be a busy week...

OK, so this was like the 3rd post I opened starting back on Friday Morning, so now I'm going to go read the rest of 3 pages of posts  I mean


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## Southern by choice

You picked a heck of a time to go to Kentucky. NC is horrid right now.The worst I can remember for the years I have lived here.
So KY is probably the same.

Those rolling hills are awesome IF you can put a barn on top of one... and that is a big IF. 

Exciting for us on here... exhausting for you.


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## NH homesteader

This weekend is unbearable in NH,  I can't imagine what it was like down there! The humidity is totally unreal. 

Sorry it didn't work out but Texas sounds good! And it is actually good you went there on a bad day to see what it could really be like!


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## Green Acres Farm

Uh, guys, if you think that is bad let me tell you- it is NEVER, EVER, not humid where I live, in Florida. It is rare for it not to rain EVERY day in the summer. Can't think of a day in a long time when it hasn't. It is one giant steam bath here!


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## NH homesteader

That is why I will NEVER EVER live in Florida! No offense but there is nothing that could make me suffer through that heat!


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## Mini Horses

OK ...so this is the TX prop that is split by a road & you toured on the 4 wheeler?

I think it had well/septic on the section across road?   Hey, maybe you can rent it out for a double wide?

I'm sorry the KY didn't work out.  Long trip to disappointment.  It just sounded sooo perfect.  Dang it, they didn't say it was on a mountain!     Hope the TX property is a place you feel you want to own....not just "a place to be".


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## Green Acres Farm

NH homesteader said:


> That is why I will NEVER EVER live in Florida! No offense but there is nothing that could make me suffer through that heat!


Completely agree! Not my choice, though. It rains all the time in winter, too, which is awful, but it doesn't snow, because it is too humid- which doesn't make sense to me. I used to live in Tennessee, then North Carolina and miss the snow and dryness there.


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## Latestarter

Yes, the property I put the offer on is the one that has 10 acres on one side and the home and 30 acres on the other side.


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## Bruce

And it rains in Florida a LOT more during hurricanes  Been humid here too. Not as hot as those farther south fortunately. I read people saying it got down to 90 and they could finally do something. When it gets up to 90 here with humidity, we all just dissolve.

Sorry the REA for the KY property was so loose with the "marketing" Joe. I always wonder what people like that are thinking. Maybe someone will show up and NOT notice they need to be a mountain goat to walk around? One of the reasons DD2 didn't go to Colgate was because of the "hilly" terrain. Spouse went with her so I don't know just how much up and down there is. The other reason is that Colgate doesn't give Merit scholarships. You either have to be very well off or very poor to go there. 

But as disappointing (and expensive in time and stress on your body) as that trip was, it is good to know that you didn't make a mistake by jumping on the TX property without seeing the KY property first. 

Thanks for the "man hug"


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## Latestarter

The REA was very apologetic. She said that's what they consider rolling.    I guess further east they have "real" mountains... These might not have been high, but they definitely had the shape... as in STEEP! A 60 degree angle slope is the same no matter the altitude... I told her it was OK. I was glad that I at least got to eyeball it and won't have to 2nd guess or have possible regrets. The TX property was quite acceptable even if not "perfect"... It has a lot of potential. I'm gonna need to spend some bucks when I get there, but I know this going in.


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## babsbag

Sorry about KY but as you said, at least you won't always say "what if". My land is not level at all and we grow rocks. I am always looking for a semi level spot to build something and it makes me crazy. I have 5 acres and no room for a pig pen that isn't on the side of a mountain or literally in my back yard. Also no place for pasture as irrigation won't stay where I put it. It is very frustrating to say the least. But I have a great view and I am above the winter fog line most of the time so it does have its upside.

Hope the Texas land works out for you.


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## misfitmorgan

If you could just do michigan...i just found out there is a place up for sale a block from us.

105 Acres with 5 outbuildings, and a 2 bedroom house/1200sqft for $169,000 been listed for 10 months...around here you could probly get it for 155k.

We seriously want it ourselves but we have already done so much work to the place we are on and we wouldnt have time to make it winter ready for the animals.


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## Latestarter

For many years I dreamed about winning the lottery and buying a huge western ranch... you know thousands (even tens of thousands) of acres. https://www.mirrranchgroup.com/ranches/cielo-vista-ranch/  <---If I only had ~105 million but I'd wager I could get it for 90   Major issue though is the entire central area of that property is in a conservation easement  I would/could NEVER willingly give the govt control over my property!

When I was younger (we're talking late 70's), I owned a 16 acre piece of wooded property in Maine that I was going to build a cedar log home on. I had even gone so far as to order the log home kit from Ward Log Homes http://www.wardcedarloghomes.com/  Then I got change of station orders to leave Maine and head to Norfolk, VA to join the crew of the USS J F Kennedy, CV67. I had to cancel the kit, plans, and eventually sold that land (gave that maine-iac wife a divorce, raised all those kids myself, retired from the Navy). 

That 16 acres seemed soooooooo small. In the past year or so, I've come to question my need/desire for thousands of acres... I mean, how would/could I possibly "protect/possess" it, keep others from using it, hunting/poaching on it, etc? I'd need a full time police force... Kinda know how those British barons must have felt...  (starving) serfs killing the king's deer and all that...  Anyway, over the past couple of weeks I got the chance to walk a couple of 40 acre tracts and you know what? as long as they are surround by equal or greater lot sizes, I'm fine with that  It's more than enough for what I want/am able to do. For most of what I want to do, 10-15 acres would probably work fine. And taking proper care of 10-15 acres and animals would be pretty much a full time job for me.

I don't want to run a huge operation/herd of cattle or anything... just a few (10-20?) goats and maybe 5-10 sheep, a couple of pigs in rotation (rotation into my freezer! ), some chickens (and turkeys?) for meat and eggs, have a garden for veggies, and enough room to breathe and have a little privacy from neighbors, and be able to shoot my guns and hunt a little on my property. Added plus if there was a pond on the property big enough to have some fish in it. But HAD to have water available.

So when I started this new home search I set the bar at 10 acres or greater, and a price range of 160K or less. The property I have the offer on is 39.9 acres, fully perimeter fenced with 5 strands of barbed wire (SO glad that's done!), and with several fenced pastures that I can start out with. There are the 2 parcels, 10-12 acres on one side of the road and the remainder on the other side. Both sides have wells, septic systems and electric available. I will have to finish fencing off the entrance and gating the main property entrance so I can let the dogs run and keep them on the property. I'll also need to run hot wire around the perimeter for the same reason. Then I'm going to need to build a "barn" and or run out shelter for the animals to come, and a chicken coop, and a pig pen. There'll be plenty to do! For now I intend to just leave the smaller parcel as it is... Maybe I'll split it & put the male goats/sheep over there to keep them from the ladies... Not sure yet. After I "own" it, I may sub-divide and put a home up over there and sell it off.

I'm sure I'll spend the rest of my life working that 40 acres trying to turn it into all my dreams in a small package   I know right now I have no intention of moving again. This will be the 2nd to last one. The final one will be... well... final if you catch my drift...


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## Mini Horses

,.....all my dreams in a small package  .....

Ahhhh, aren't dreams great?   Yep, my 15 acres is ALLLLLL  that I want to take care of  -- but, not all that I want   then there is the "reality check" and I think of where & how I need to reduce some of the herd to save some work time.   Gardens can be a lot of work, didn't even get one in this year.   2 hogs to market at end of month, leaves me to wonder why I am going to deal with 2 preg ones -- then piglets --- downsizing didn't work.

I am selling 6 or 7 young bucks from this yrs kidding.    New hens from "wouldn't it be cute" broody hen hatching will lay soon.   Don't need eggs or hens BUT, sooo cute.

Worked all AM in this high humidity, in for couple hrs, then back out.  Always lots to do.    There ARE days I wonder why I am still doing this. 


YES -- that "small package of dreams" you will have in those 40 acres will soon FEEL like 1,000.  But you will enjoy it & that matters.


----------



## misfitmorgan

i guess one of the big differences i always seem to overlook is that everyone doesnt want to do traditional farming. We do, so more land is always good. Livestock is always good, property for crops/hay is always good, etc. So the hobby farm thing is a bit beyond me i think, not to say its bad or i look down on it or any of that. It's just not something im interested in, our goal is to be farmers and make our income off of farming. We are young and might change our minds later(i doubt it) but for now this is what we want and have always wanted. So basically i should be able to see that as much as im not into hobby farming many others are not into traditional or commercial farming either.

I hope you get the 40 acres your looking at, it's a new adventure for you and im sure everything will work out for you.


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## babsbag

I understand the fencing part for sure. I am looking at the 8 acres next to me, fairly level and mostly fenced....piece of cake. Now the 16 acres is another story. Lots of ravines, lots of trees in the way, and A LOT of fence line; the only fence on it is mine. 
Almost over whelming. Then the fact that I can't see the dogs or goats...


----------



## misfitmorgan

oh yes fencing....the stuff of nightmares.


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## Mini Horses

Misfitmorgan...kudos to you for farming!   

Land -- and more land -- I did "farm" with livestock.  Did quite well and positive cash flow.   Now, that I'm 70, I want to slow down, so I "hobby" farm.     It is because I did more that I keep thinking I still CAN.  We have limits, I've learned.     Sometimes I overwhelm myself.

That's why I caution those about grand ideas and to be realistic about how, when, cost, time, etc. come into play.    Sold my larger, previous farms.  I bought smaller and built another house, barn, etc..  Even had to plant trees as it was a peanut farm before, always tilled.  It's all good!!

I am thrilled to see a younger generation who WANTS to farm for a living -- be it livestock, crops or all.   Hey, I just bought a new tractor last year for my  hobby.   FAR smaller than ones needed for a working farm but expensive and worth it.   Love to ride it to mow, disk, fence, whatever!   Even a blood transfusion didn't get rid of the "farming blood"


----------



## Latestarter

So I've been sitting here waiting on the home inspector to show up (1:00 due), and no inspector... So a truck pulls up and it's the buyer. She wanted to look around and take some pictures and measurements and ask some questions. She then informed me that the home inspector slipped on some gravel this am and ruptured a disk in his back. He's presently being fitted for a back brace and will be here later to do the inspection (God knows how???). She was here with her boss on the way to a house call next town over and said she will be back to help the inspector...  OK...

My originally assigned LO at the lender can't do TX properties so I'm in the process of being re-assigned to a TX LO. Waiting to hear from him/her. My TX REA has been sent signed/initialed/dated copies of all the forms to present to the sellers this evening for signature/acceptance or counter. He said they're feeling "rushed" but feels they will accept the deal. He's taking them to see 2 properties this evening. I sent a signed lease for them to keep their horses on the 10 acre property for $1/day through the end of November so they don't have to worry about moving them immediately.

Have a nice big rib eye steak sitting in the refer for dinner tonight. Only 2:30 and I'm already hungry. Might just say "heck with it" and grill it up and eat, inspector or not.


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## Ponker

Latestarter said:


> Well, The rock has been moved and has begun to roll. The realtor the neighbor recommended stopped by today and I walked him around and through the place. He said he'll be swamped the next couple of days but will do a work up and get back to me Wednesday or Thursday. He said RE has slowed down some from the hot and heavy May/June time frame. He specializes in homes with acreage, so he's not a sub division guru. So now we wait and see what he thinks.
> he asked my time frame and my net goal. I told him no huge rush, and what I wanted to get out of it.
> 
> Glad you were able to find something @SheepGirl   As for expenses, yeah, MD comes in #6 as least value for a dollar. I've been concentrating on KY which is the 7th best, or TX which is more or less right in the middle. (link below graphic - Love the stuff on the tax foundation site!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.lifehack.org/articles/money/the-10-most-and-least-expensive-states-america.html


Welcome to Arkansas!


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## Ponker

@Latestarter The Ozarks are wonderful. Beautiful farms with land for very competitive prices. Low cost of living... We own land in the Missouri Ozarks (Oregon County 40 acres) and live in the Arkansas Ozarks (Sharp County 16 acres). Our taxes for our home are under $500 annually and our land taxes are right at $100 (with two cabins).

I wanted to mention that Zillow is a nice place to peruse properties but you can miss a lot of competitive properties listed with local companies. Here is a link to local listings. If you have time you may want to check out a few for the competition. http://www.onlineoml.com/

Arkansas and Missouri love your guns.


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## OneFineAcre

Ponker said:


> @Latestarter The Ozarks are wonderful. Beautiful farms with land for very competitive prices. Low cost of living... We own land in the Missouri Ozarks (Oregon County 40 acres) and live in the Arkansas Ozarks (Sharp County 16 acres). Our taxes for our home are under $500 annually and our land taxes are right at $100 (with two cabins).
> 
> I wanted to mention that Zillow is a nice place to peruse properties but you can miss a lot of competitive properties listed with local companies. Here is a link to local listings. If you have time you may want to check out a few for the competition. http://www.onlineoml.com/
> 
> Arkansas and Missouri love your guns.


There were some nice properties on that website.


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## sadieml

So sorry KY was a bust--especially after the break-neck, exhausting trip!  Also, no trip through NC on the way to TX, but they could always START the wagon train and we could join-up here!  I am really glad you cleared-up any potential "what if's".  I am very excited for you.  That 40 acres will, no doubt, serve well as the site for your "dream-weaving" (note the Gary Wright reference-listening to it as I type).  Your adventure is just beginning, and I am still willing to deliver NC goats--even to TX!


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## Mike CHS

When I was much younger I wanted enough land to row crop farm but now that I'm retired I only want enough land to raise a few goats and 25 or 30 breeder sheep.  We have a little less than 19 acres and I can maintain that without killing myself.  Farming (even hobby farming) can be challenging on hills.  I have a decent amount of flat pasture but also have a hill that I named Pucker Hill the first time I ran the bush hog down it.

I have a feeling that you were meant to be a Texan.


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## sadieml

A-treating we will go...


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## misfitmorgan

Mini Horses said:


> Misfitmorgan...kudos to you for farming!
> 
> Land -- and more land -- I did "farm" with livestock.  Did quite well and positive cash flow.   Now, that I'm 70, I want to slow down, so I "hobby" farm.     It is because I did more that I keep thinking I still CAN.  We have limits, I've learned.     Sometimes I overwhelm myself.
> 
> That's why I caution those about grand ideas and to be realistic about how, when, cost, time, etc. come into play.    Sold my larger, previous farms.  I bought smaller and built another house, barn, etc..  Even had to plant trees as it was a peanut farm before, always tilled.  It's all good!!
> 
> I am thrilled to see a younger generation who WANTS to farm for a living -- be it livestock, crops or all.   Hey, I just bought a new tractor last year for my  hobby.   FAR smaller than ones needed for a working farm but expensive and worth it.   Love to ride it to mow, disk, fence, whatever!   Even a blood transfusion didn't get rid of the "farming blood"



Thank you Mini. From what most younger people have told me they dont wanna farm cause its to much work. Honestly i would rather be out working on the farm doing fencing, or gardening, or making hay then i would sitting in the office for 9hrs a day like i have to atm. The office is super easy sit in front of a computer but i hate it esp when there is so much that needs to be done on the farm. 

We are hopefully getting a tractor added onto our farm loan, the tractor we own is an old ford  and there is something wrong with the 3 point, the hydraulics, and the steering isnt working right. The tractor never acted right but we got it for free except gas money to haul it home so instead of trying to mess around and fix it in our limited time we are gonna send it downstate to be overhauled and get a slightly larger tractor for some of the heavier work.


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## Latestarter

And the wheel of life continues to spin... Which door shall we pick today?  I want door number....  FIVE!

The buyer's home inspector was here yesterday. Supposed to arrive at 1, then it was 4, finally got here and got started after 5 & left around 6:30. Found one shingle cap missing at the very end of the roof peak cap, and another shingle tab that was buckled a little and therefore needs to be tarred back down. said the roof has at least 3 years life left, one good hail storm and she can get it replaced with insurance. Other than that he found nothing that needed repair/replaced and no reason to prevent the sale from going through. He was talking to the buyer on the phone before leaving and informed me that she just sold her place so a huge relief for her as well. So, next I have to wait and see what the appraiser is going to say. Maybe I should meet him/her at the door armed and looking dangerous?   or wait... maybe I should do the armed and dangerous thing when he/she is leaving?    decisons...

Heard from my REA down in TX and the sellers down there haven't liked anything that he's shown them and say they will not sell until they find something.   So I have no signed contract at this point.   Completely understandable from their perspective, however, I'm getting desperately short of time here when a close typically takes 45-60 days and I'm approaching the 30 days to go mark.  Was informed that TX title companies are notoriously slow and drag feet at every opportunity...   My lender had to swap me to a TX loan officer (original LO was a KY LO) so I still haven't heard anything from them either, which is making me nervous as they too request 45 days minimum... 

So, spent the last hour+ online trying to find alternatives... I have three nice properties picked out that will work for me and linked them to my realtor for his review and ability to set up viewings this coming weekend. Called my favorite oldest daughter and she will house sit for me this coming weekend so looks like I'm going to be a road warrior again very soon. Advantages to these three is they are all VA financing eligible where the present offer is not. In addition, several are well set up with fencing and out buildings. They are smaller homes and older, but as I said, they should work. For your viewing pleasure:

#1: Mount-Pleasant-TX-75455
#2: Mount-Pleasant-TX-75455
#3: Pittsburg-TX-75686

So, just got off the phone with my new TX loan officer. She informed me that they "require" 8 days between closing here and closing there. I informed her as a 10 year mortgage loan officer that 8 days are NOT required as a closer can complete a file for closing in an hour or less depending on the final stipulation being cleared. She then tried to tell me that they "required" 45 days to complete the loan. I informed her that a loan could be done in under 10 days. She then changed it to they "recommend" 45 days. I said I could accept recommend, I could not accept require. If they hold fast to their fracking ridiculous 8 day "requirement", then that means I'll be in a hotel with a full moving truck for almost 2 weeks due to 2 weekends and a holiday to boot: Labor day. Fracking ridiculous!

This loan is so simple and straight forward it's literally like a gift to the lender. And this lender doesn't sell their loans, they hold them, so it's not like that's the issue. 

Heard from my REA in TX, he will have the properties scheduled for viewing when I get there. I asked him to contact the listing agents and get verification that if I write a contract, they will be able to be out by 9/26.


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## AClark

Those are really nice, I'm not finding anything like that where we're moving. They act like a $200,000 max price is so "low ball" but ya know, I need affordable, and I'm not looking at anything over 5 acres. It's not a high cost of living area either, especially compared to here! 
The whole "required" crap is just that. We lost out on a house here in TX because we couldn't close as fast as they wanted, we needed 30 days notice where we live now since we're month-to-month after our original 1 year lease - I wasn't about to lose $1200 in deposits because they're in a hurry. They wanted it closed on in 15 days because they were moving out of state so they declined our offer for a lower offer that could close faster - 7 months later and that house is still up on the market and $10k cheaper, so something must not have gone right. 
Anyway, none of those houses looked really small to me, we're in 1900 sq ft with 6 of us (4 BR 2 BA) and the only real complaint I have is that my kitchen is really small, especially for a 4 BR which would usually indicate a larger family.


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## Mike CHS

It looks like any of those will fit your criteria.


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## Mini Horses

#2....it's set up for immediate use.   I like the look of the land.  No pond, I know !  (You can get one dug, I've done that before)   But, far more pleasant than #1 land pics  (of course, could be pictures taken by uncaring eye.)    #2 has something -- storm shelter?  In pic with swing.....use to store winter veggies.

#3 I really don't like the house. Decorated very dark.  NO pictures of the land -- so, what's with that???  Bad REA?    I mean, that's what you are looking for, right?  Land?  Barn?  Fences?

Any of them vacant?       Of course not.  Maybe UC for another place & really ready to move?  Dream on.

I agree with all you say about the LO & processing.   Just keep kicking butt and it can get done.  AS YOU KNOW.


Hopefully one of these will work for you -- I know there's stress
because we are all on this journey with you & geeesh, it's time one of these sellers took your money!!    Round 'em up & move 'em out, one more time


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## AClark

Oh, by the way, the 2nd house you posted, the inside is gorgeous! That would be my top pick with all the wood and a decent kitchen. Idk if you cook a lot, but I've found that a good sized kitchen makes my life a LOT easier, especially with canning and processing with the meat grinder.


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## Latestarter

I like the wood floors as well...   But it's priced quite a bit high per square foot...  It's been listed for 133 days, which gives an idea of how over-priced it is... Priced right, it would have sold almost immediately (IMHO).  When I said "smaller" homes, that was compared to the one I tried to buy already that was over 2100 square feet, 4 br...


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## babsbag

Looks like they all have something different to offer. #1 is gorgeous outside, but that kitchen... #3 is really an unknown land wise. #2 has a lot of wood, which isn't me but may be you. I would like the hardwood floors though. Carpet and country don't go together. Good luck and your next adventure.


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## AClark

^ Darn right country and carpet don't mix, lol. I have wall to wall linoleum and it's easy to clean, if I had carpet, it would be wrecked. That and shampooing carpet sucks! 
#1 or 3 had a galley kitchen and lime green paint...it was pretty scary. Of course paint can be fixed, but you can't fix small without tearing out walls, if you even can. Personally I would skip it just on the kitchen, but I probably have different needs than you do with 5 children at home, and an additional 3 that will come visit. House hunting sure is an adventure, isn't it?


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## NH homesteader

Totally vote for number 2. You just need to replace those kitchen cabinets! But seriously land looks good,  house seems more open and welcoming and the outbuildings and fencing are there.  That would be my choice.


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## Latestarter

Sure you didn't mean the kitchen cabinets in #3?  Those are just plain ugly... and yes, green paint would HAVE to go! But as long as they're functional, that's what matters up front. I can always upgrade later. The thing that attracts me to #3 is the creek running across the back 3rd of the property as well as the (maybe) nice barn. No garage, and I don't like that it's right on a main, probably heavily traveled road... It's also the most expensive, but it is a brick home. Old and out of date for sure, but that can be mitigated over time.
The kitchen on #1 is very small, and I do like to cook, but mostly outside on a grill involving meat    The price on #1 is most attractive and despite the fact that it "appears" as if it was recently listed, I remember seeing it listed way back the beginning of the year like Feb/Mar time frame. They prob took it off the market for being stale and just put it back on. They may just be desperate. Could I get it for less than 150K? Possibly/probably... I'd most likely start out with a 145K offer and see what happens from there

#2 is my favorite of them. I like the wood Babs! Love it actually. I'm not normally a fan of long skinny properties but the way this one is laid out I could keep a couple of steers up front and the goats/sheep in the back. Maybe put a barn off to the left of the house to access front and rear fields...  Have to see how the land lays to determine if digging a pond would work, and where.

But really, each one has some really strong merits as well as some weak points. We'll see this coming Saturday. Kind of excited but not about another long drive.


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## AClark

Well if you're taking I25 down to Las Cruces and across on I10 through El Paso, I'll let you know, our freeway is torn up around exit 35 or so - traffic is a mess. You can actually avoid most of I10 though and it's a shorter trip. If you're coming this way, I'll let you know where to get off so you can avoid the craptastic El Paso traffic  It's how I go when I run to Arizona for the weekend, shaves off miles and time, virtually zero traffic too.


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> I like the wood floors as well...   But it's priced quite a bit high per square foot...  It's been listed for 133 days, which gives an idea of how over-priced it is... Priced right, it would have sold almost immediately (IMHO).  When I said "smaller" homes, that was compared to the one I tried to buy already that was over 2100 square feet, 4 br...


133 days in rural TX isn't the same as a suburb of Denver


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## Latestarter

Oh heck no! I take I70 east then catch 287 SE almost all the way there. I'll jump off on 82 East just the other side of Wichita Falls, TX, then drop south on 271 out of Paris, TX, which takes me right into Mount Pleasant where the first 2 properties are located.


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## sadieml

Poor Joe!  I'll give you my take on each of the 3 if you want--if not, just scroll right on past my post--YOUR opinion is the only one that really counts...

Most of all I wish they had floor plans on those sites, you know, so you can see the lay-out!

#1 and #3 are both brick--a big plus for me
#2 is WAY high per sq ft
#1 yucky galley kitchen--don't you enjoy cooking on occasion?  BUT 2 ovens is a plus for me  (and the green does suck!)
#2 and #3 both have nice sized kitchens--you'd have to reface the cabinets in #3 and the counter looks pretty worn

Okay, total package:

The first one looks nice, pretty good curb appeal, and the price is great!!!  I love the den with the fireplace, eat-in kitchen PLUS dining room, added-on game room (DH would put his Pez collection there!), and it has a nice pond.

I don't like the front of #2, but all that be-you-ti-ful wood is great.  Rooms look nice-sized, and I like the out-buildings, the swing, and the storm shelter/cellar/???  

Personally, I have a good feeling about #3, but it looks like they may have 5, 6 or maybe even 7 kids and with so few pics and no idea of sq ft, it's hard to tell much about size.  I scrolled down on the page for #3 and I checked it from the satellite. barn? yes   fencing? yes    pond? yes--AND the back property line looks like a creek or could just be a gully for run-off, not sure (per your last post it is a creek--that's pronounced 'crick' btw)

I know I'm not being very helpful, but I am a strong believer that you have to be there and get a feeling for the place.
I really believe that since you're looking for guidance from above, when you walk through your "new home", you'll feel "at home".  This whole process is very exciting...


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## babsbag

Skip whichever house it was that has the purple bathroom.  

I really like the brick houses but houses can be remodeled, land not quite as easily. I live about 1/4 mile from the main road and that is close enough. Long driveways are a big ++++  And if you happen to own a cat or ever want one you don't want to be on a busy road.


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## AClark

Ah ok, I'm not sure where Mt. Pleasant is, I had guessed it was more down by San Antonio rather than up closer to Dallas. I had to look on a map where it is, I'm not familiar with anywhere but west TX (basically this side of DFW) so yeah definitely makes sense not to come all the way down here - you aren't missing anything anyway! lol
I try to stay on the freeway, since I drive a diesel truck I've learned that not all gas stations carry diesel, but staying on the freeway is a safe bet because truck stops do. 

That purple bathroom is something else, isn't it?


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## NH homesteader

Yeah don't like the cabinets in #3 at all.  The kitchen in #2 has too much brown haha.  But #1 basically needs a new one. I'm kitchen minded! Otherwise any of them are good,  but#2 is my favorite.


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## Bruce

Purple can be changed (house #1). Interesting that they have 2 pictures of the "eating area" in the kitchen with different furniture. Given there is a separate dining room, that area could be changed for more counter/prep space to make up for the lack of it in the kitchen itself. A galley kitchen isn't bad if only 1 person is in there at a time. Master bed has the sink IN the bedroom. Not a problem for Joe but that could be really annoying for a married couple where one gets up early to go to work. And that bathroom layout: Wind your way between the cabinet and the toilet to get to the bathtub? Maybe it is just a bad angle. Probably no sink in that cabinet so a smaller one could be put int. But the paper is on the opposite wall  Time for a freestanding paper holder


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## Bruce

#3 is really dark, even with the lights on. Some of that can be attributed to the poor selection of dark flooring and yep, those cabinet doors need to be painted a light color or replaced. And no property pictures. That by itself is concerning especially since it is 20 acres.

Not sure where #2 REALLY is. Google and Mapquest place it in different locations and the satellite view doesn't look like the picture in the listing. But the pictures look like it is a good place for someone with animals and unless the REA cheated with photo lights, it seems pretty bright, especially given all the wood. I love wood


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## AClark

House #1, the purple bathroom isn't the only affront to the eyes...I believe the kitchen is lime green! LOL. Maybe I'm plain, but bold colors in the house just don't do it for me, and with those bright colors, that's going to take some Kilz to go over. 
I know the house I'm looking at in OK is painted similarly, and all I can think of is "how many gallons of Kilz is that going to take to cover up the ugly" - same lime green too.


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## animalmom

Fencing, fencing, fencing.  Whatever property you go with make sure the fencing is good.  5 strand is better than 4 strand, but 7 strand is grand.  I'd watch out for fencing that has a lot of those spacer twists in between the T-posts/fence posts as that can mean the fence is not taut or you have some wire down somewhere.  Fencing isn't like repainting, if it was neglected it probably won't be a repair but a redo.  Ca-ching!

Just my opinion.  I'd offer places here in Erath County (about 2 hours west-ish, but land is so expensive now we would not be able to live here if we hadn't gotten the land when we did.  It is outrageous!


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## Devonviolet

I'm checking in to see how your trip went.

Sorry I haven't done so until now. With limited wifi data, I can only check in once in a while. As it stands, I am over my allotment for 11 days into my billing cycle [0.20 GB/day].

I'm sorry your trip, to Kentucky, was so disappointing. Are you a glutton for punishment, or what???    Only a crazy man [and I say that in the nicest way] would drive straight through, and then get back on the road, immediately, for the return trip. I kow you don't mind the long drives.  But REALLY!!!  You're gonna kill yourself doing these long cross country drives so close together.

All three of the properties you have found, near Mt. Pleasant look interesting. As you said, each one seems to have merit.  I checked Google Maps  and they are about 35-45 minutes away from us.

The price on #1 looks good, and it looks like the nicest house. But, that small galley kitchen would be unacceptible for us. The price would allow wiggle room to remodel that kitchen.

I'm wondering what is on the other side of the refrigerator wall? You could take that wall out (might need to add a beam, if its load bearing) and make a great room, if that other room is the living room - it looks like it might be, it would be easy to make the kitchen bigger.

I spoke to DH. Before you make another long drive to Texas, we are willing to meet with your realtor and look at each property (and take lots of pictures). That way, if they turn out to not be "as described" you can re-evaluate, without coming all this way.

If so, PM me with the details & we can make arrangements to meet your REA.


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## misfitmorgan

Definitely like #2 the best....it is set off the road a couple acres, looks like it has 4 outbuildings and a storm shelter or root cellar thingy. Has nice pipe corral area for running a few cows. Fencing generally looks nice 4 or 5 strand a portion of it definitely looks newer cause it is still silver. It has no neighbors right up your butt, and it has quite a few nice shade trees in the pasture as well an that entire wooded area in the back that goats would love. There is also a chain-link fence with a nice double gate....curious how far that goes. It does look like the majority of the property is fenced already.

The reasons i dont like #1 ugly small kitchen, ugly dining room, ....basically most of it is ugly to be honest...the wood vanity with the wooden kitchen countertop, the paperroll across by the shower(thats just gonna get wet),  the house layout is odd and not in a good way, vanity in the master bedroom...no thanks. The house just appears very dated and like they added on a bunch of additions and had no care about the layout and flow from room to room. The house is pretty darn close to the road and you have a neighbor right there...right up your butt to the north. The driveway looks concrete and broken up. The only visible fence line is that on the south edge which is the South neighbors and does not look new as they have no livestock in it. There are several piles of garabe/stuff, a well as a few downed trees. I see no new fencing on the majority of the property which they have been cutting for hay and no access to the barn from that area.  Also no woods on the actual property.

The reasons i dont like #3 Cabinets def need redone or replace,countertops are very old you can see damages edges in the picture, Home seems dated with a slightly awkward layout. The wood floors are nice though in the kitchen/living room. It does have at least 2 pastures with livestock on the property and a nice looking large barn. It does have a pond but there is a lack or woods and shade trees in the pastures. The creek while it sounds charming can be a mess, we have one running thru the corner of our property and it is so far nothing but annoying and the surrounding area stays to wet to do anything with as well as us not being able to fence thru the creek or allow our animals to use it because of the law banning livestock from drinking from moving sources of water. So far we can not even brush hog the area around it to keep vegetation down. There appears to be a grain silo or corn crib right by the house and no driveway to the actual house just ground driven on. Also again looks like some random debris scattered around the property. The house look slightly larger then #2 but smaller then #1 i would guess 1650-1700sqft making its cost approx $110-106 per sqft. And its right on the highway with the house quite close to the road and since the fencing is already in place there isnt much room to fence off an area for your LGD. They only left a very small area right around the house not fenced for cattle which woul be the people area lol...basically they made a circle driveway on the grass and fenced out a bit from it.

Basically you have to decide do you wanna pay 145-150K to spend your time putting up fencing, cleaning up someone elses garbage, reworking the property, and redoing/remodeling the house?

Do you want to spend 175-180k to again clean up someone else's garbage, reworking the property, redoing/remodeling the house, and repairing/redoing fencing?

Do you wanna pay 170-179k to repaint some and possibly add to fencing already there and in very good condition? The add says and the pictures show the property was well taken care of and is clean inside and out. 

I'm sure you will be able to answer those questions when you see the properties in person, honestly #2 seems like the best deal for work trade off and setup. i believe #1 is priced lower because of all the clean up and reworking needed. The aerial views show a lot for each property.

@Bruce 
Mapquest shows it. The view they have on the ad is turned 90 degrees the property actually runs east/west.
Its the pink square.


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## Latestarter

Well, as it turns out, #2 is unoccupied, so closing on short notice would be easier. Thanks for your generous offer @Devonviolet I do appreciate it greatly but I will be back down there Saturday morning to visit all three. Perhaps we could all get together for dinner again? Maybe @Ferguson K can make it north this time? It would be a Saturday evening, so I don't know, she may need to work.

I have to admit, that jacuzzi with #2 is a HUGE plus and just one more temptation for me... I absolutely love them and want one. They help my back and old tired joints so much. And that one looks like a "better" model as opposed to a cheap unit. Love soaking with snow flakes falling all around me


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## Ferguson K

I'm usually off Saturday EVENING. Sometimes as early as noon.
Might can do it.


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## AClark

I have to agree with the hot tub, it cures what aches you for sure!


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## Devonviolet

That's great, about #2 being available. You do have somewhat of a time crunch. So, I look forward to seeing you again this weekend. That would be nice if @Baymule & @Ferguson K could join us for dinner too.

That jacuzzi does look like a nice one. However, dont get your hopes up too high . . . I doubt that you'll be getting too many snowflakes falling on you, while you are in the jacuzzi. 

Last winter we didn't get any snow. The winter before (2015) we maybe had 2" total snow.


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## Latestarter

I'll close my eyes and imagine snow... Maybe I can get someone to stand over me shaving ice cubes or something...


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## AClark

Zamboni! We got 8 inches all in 1 day here last winter...it was crazy when we usually don't get any snow. Freak storm.


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## Mini Horses

Well, from us seeing what you are, we have pretty well selected #2.    (I feel like I'm on a game show)   With it being VACANT  it seems to be calling your name...you could even most probably get a 30 day rental on it until close, especially if approval is done & paperwork is slow.   Hey, I too love a hot tub and that one is inviting isn't it?  (even without snowflakes  ).


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## Devonviolet

AClark said:


> Zamboni! We got 8 inches all in 1 day here last winter...it was crazy when we usually don't get any snow. Freak storm.


  we moved from MN, where it snows in late Oct or November and stays until March. Winter temps regularly get down below 0° (as low as -25° with wind chills as low as -75°). I remember some nasty snowfalls. 

In 2003, we moved to PA, where Feb can bring 36" of snow in 3 days. The difference is, in PA if you wait a few days, temps go back up into the 40s & 50s, and all you have left is big piles of snow in parking lots.


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## Mike CHS

Short fuse moves can be painful.  We ran out of time getting out of Charleston and had to make 3 trips from Charleston to Middle Tennessee in 4 days.  The 1st trip was my shop tools, the 2nd was my lumber and finally our household goods.


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## Mike CHS

Short fuse moves can be painful.  We ran out of time getting out of Charleston and had to make 3 trips from Charleston to Middle Tennessee in 8 days.  The 1st trip was my shop tools, the 2nd was my lumber and finally our household goods.


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## AClark

@Devonviolet I moved here from Fort Drum, NY (which is in the Thousand Islands region and gets that fun lake effect snow off Lake Ontario) - it's a welcomed relief not to shovel feet of snow every day.


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## Devonviolet

AClark said:


> @Devonviolet I moved here from Fort Drum, NY (which is in the Thousand Islands region and gets that fun lake effect snow off Lake Ontario) - it's a welcomed relief not to shovel feet of snow every day.


I hear ya!!!  That lake effect snow is bitter cold!!  Some of my worst shoveling memories were -5° temps, with packed snow. The worst is when you clean out the end of the driveway, only to have the city snow plow block you in with 4 feet of hard pack snow!   Then you have to get the pick ax out to break it into chunks that can be carried to the area between the curb & sidewalk.

And you had better wear several pair of thermal gloves, if you don't want your fingers frost bitten!  Ugh!  I REALLY don't miss that at all!


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## NH homesteader

Thanks everyone for the reminder of what my life will be like in 4 months


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## Baymule

Just got on here to catch up. Have been busy lately, so busy that I was exhausted and when I sat down last night, that was it. DH woke me up at 10:30 to go to bed.  

Our vote is for #2 also. The kitchen cabinets aren't _that _bad-they sure look bigger than what I have in Double Wide Diva Land.  You can always put a coat of paint and new knobs on them to make them new again. We like the land, it has pasture and trees, fencing and then there's that Jacuzzi..... But you have to go see them and make up your mind..... #2 is vacant....

It will be fun to meet up for dinner again. How about Mexican? Mom and Pop café? @Devonviolet can show us the culinary delights of Sulphur Springs.  @Ferguson K it would be fantastic if you and John could come too. We have a spare bedroom if ya'll want to stay overnight and go back home on Sunday so you don't have to be on the road half the night. We would love to have ya'll!


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## Bruce

Sounds like Joe might be having hot tub parties for all the (nearly) local BYH members 

I hope that #2 works out Joe, since we all like it the best of the 3  I don't think the kitchen cabinets are all that bad, other than the "lacy" added on "trim". I bet those come off pretty easily. I like that they have a lot of pictures both inside and out. Suggests they aren't trying to hide anything "by omission".


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> It will be fun to meet up for dinner again. How about Mexican? Mom and Pop café? @Devonviolet can show us the culinary delights of Sulphur Springs.


Mexican? You want Mexican? We got Mexican! Or, more correctly "Tex-Mex".

There are 3 Mexican restaurants in Sulphur Springs. We have eaten at two of the three and weren't all that impressed.

So, I got online & looked up number 3:

Los Mochis 2, at the Valley Fair Outlet Mall. Actually, there is a strip mall behind Valley Fair. At one end is Famous Footwear. Lis Mochis 2 is at the other end.

The reviews are mixed. But, they seem tohave a loyal, local following. If y'all are game, DH & I are game. I love good Mexican food. Tex-Mex is okay too.

Another option would be Richie's Grill & Cafe in Winnsboro. Richie has several of these cafes in the area. The food is Tex-Mex and I know it is excellent! FYI Latestarter, Richie's is in Winnsboro about 25 minutes from the Royal Inn in Sulphur Springs.


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## Ferguson K

I'm always down for some good tex-mex.


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## Devonviolet

Ferguson K said:


> I'm always down for some good tex-mex.


Awesome!!!


----------



## Baymule

Winnsboro sounds good to me!


----------



## Latestarter

Winnsboro works for me as well. My final lookie-see is the #3 property just west of Pittsburg on 11 between 4:30-5:00, so I can just head west on 11 to dinner with y'all. I can touch base by cell to let you know how things are going time wise, but I would guess best would be to plan for dinner around 6:30ish. Hope you can make it @Ferguson K !


----------



## Devonviolet

That sounds perfect!  We haven't eaten at Richie's for a while, so this will be a huge treat!


----------



## Ferguson K

We should be able to make it. I'll just have to tell the hubby.


----------



## Baymule

Sounds like fun! We're in!


----------



## Devonviolet

WooHoo!  I'm so looking forward to meeting you Ferguson K!  This is going to be fun!


----------



## Latestarter

So now for the start of the moving fun. Not even considering a typical moving company as that would run me close to 10 grand. Contacted PODs and they want almost 3 grand ($2892) for a 16' pod. Then called PACK RAT and they don't deliver their "pods" where I'm moving so they forwarded me to their trailer drop connection. They run 28' trailers and you rent space by linear foot. For 17 linear feet of trailer would cost $1950 for the move. They charge $80/day for storage for the first 5 days, then $600/month after that. I'd get 3 days to load here and 3 days to unload there with 3-5 days transit in between and a 2 day grace to schedule delivery once it arrives in Texarkana. 

I figured they might be an after market piggy backing on a major truck shipper so then contacted Old Dominion freight (OD) and they quoted $1527 for the same basic stuff as packrat, and they only charge $50/day for storage. Or I can rent the whole 28 foot trailer for $1846... A hundred dollars less than packrat for the 17', and I can reserve a trailer as close as 2 days from trailer drop date. I think I know which I'll be using.

Both put up a partition behind my stuff with a seal to ensure nobody tampers with it and insure for up to 10 grand. Since my lender is claiming they need 8 days to close, this actually works out pretty well to give them some extra time (NOT 8 days! but xtra) and gives me plenty of time to pack and unpack the trailer at both ends.


----------



## Latestarter

I'll be starting my drive here to pick up #1 daughter in about 3 hours... So is it Richie's where we'll be meeting for dinner tomorrow evening? If I don't get word, I'll text you @Devonviolet or give you a ring on your cell tomorrow afternoon some time. Really excited that I'll get to meet @Ferguson K and her DH. Hope you folks can make it!  Still shooting for dinner between 6-6:30 ish?


----------



## Mini Horses

Sounds like you have it all set to go!    
You have your truck for hauling livestock and your "immediate" things....could pull a trailer if needed for hard to pack or gotta have things.   

OK, now we are on hold until you do your lookie-see.   This is the tough part.


----------



## Devonviolet

Yes, Richie's it is!      6:00 - 6:30-ish is good. I'm thinking it might take you about 25 minutes to get there. Try to take the "y" onto 515, just after 4420. That will take you straight to Richie's.

If you miss 515, turn left onto Walnut after you are in Winnsboro. Its about 1/2 mile - on the left, at the light.


----------



## Baymule

Just looked it up, looks easy to find.


----------



## Baymule

Was talking to @Ferguson K and she had a flat tire on her way home. What a lousy way to end the work day! Almost home and splat--a flat.  She got off the phone so she could call her husband to come rescue her.


----------



## Ferguson K

Baymule said:


> Was talking to @Ferguson K and she had a flat tire on her way home. What a lousy way to end the work day! Almost home and splat--a flat.  She got off the phone so she could call her husband to come rescue her.



He rescued me quickly, he was close by. I bent the rim. We'll be in his shop tomorrow morning assessing damage. Hope the rim can be saved, they're $$$$.


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## babsbag

That stinks about the rim, you are right, they aren't cheap; even cheap ones aren't cheap. But glad the damsel in distress had a quick rescue.


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## Baymule

Her Prince to the rescue!!!!


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> even cheap ones aren't cheap



  ​


----------



## Baymule

We had a great time in Winnsboro at Ritchies. Good Tex-Mex! And even better company with @Latestarter , @Devonviolet and her husband. We wished @Ferguson K and her husband could have made it, but she had to get her car squared away and everything fixed. Haha, _WE_ know which house Latestarter made an offer on, but we aren't telling!!  Ya'll have to wait until he gets back to his soon-to-be-OLD-house so he can tell you himself.


----------



## Ferguson K

I'm really sad I couldn't make it. But, ya'll are only about 2 hours out so we really need to visit anyways. 

Waiting patiently to hear what he offered on!


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## frustratedearthmother

You stink!


----------



## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> You stink!


* BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!*_ rubbing hands together gleefully......_


----------



## Baymule

Ferguson K said:


> I'm really sad I couldn't make it. But, ya'll are only about 2 hours out so we really need to visit anyways.
> 
> Waiting patiently to hear what he offered on!


We could have lunch on our porch! It's been so hot that we haven't sat out there, but the rain has sure cooled it off. Maybe now we'll finish putting the stain on it....LOL


----------



## Bruce

We can make side bets on which house Joe is planning to buy 

I put my money on #2


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I've gotta agree that on paper - #2 looks great!


----------



## babsbag

frustratedearthmother said:


> You stink!



x2


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Haha, _WE_ know which house Latestarter made an offer on, but we aren't telling!!  Ya'll have to wait until he gets back to his soon-to-be-OLD-house so he can tell you himself.





Baymule said:


> * BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!*_ rubbing hands together gleefully......_


Na-Na-Na-BooBoo!  That's for us to know & you to find out!   

Actually, Latestarted wouldn't even tell me until I promised not to spill the beans.

We had a pleasant surprise this afternoon. It turned out Latestarter finished earlier than he thought. So he called to see if he could come by for a visit before dinner. Of course I saId YES!  We sipped Sweet Tea & then we went out where he met the dogs. It was so sweet! Deo really took to him - jumping up and down on the gate & slobbering all over his arms.   

@Ferguson K, I was so disappointed when I got to Richies & realized that you couldn't be there afterall. However I totally understood. It looked like your wheel took a nasty hint & replacing it was your only option - they look like expensive wheels & tires.  When you go to @Baymule 's for a visit, we will try to take a drive down to meet y'all.


----------



## sadieml

Yep, I've gotta say, I'm with FEM on this .  Couldn't Joe have taken a few minutes on the porch to fill us in?   *sniffles*  I think we see, now, that the TX contingent is holding on to that "lone star" attitude.  Et tu, Joe???  How quickly we forget...  *more sniffles*

Just joking!!!  Can't wait to hear the news!  I know #2 looked best to everybody, but except for the darkness, lack of pics, no dimensions, ugly kitchen cabinets, no hot tub, etc.(Okay, there were a lot of things!), I still had a good feeling about #3.  Anyway, we'll soon see...  ...


----------



## Ferguson K




----------



## Baymule

Hey ya'll, it would be real tacky of us to steal Joe's thunder. It's _his _announcement to make, not ours. He almost didn't tell @Devonviolet, swore her to secrecy then blew it and told me and DH. He ought to be home soon, get some sleep and be on here to tell ya'll all about it.


----------



## babsbag

sadieml said:


> Yep, I've gotta say, I'm with FEM on this . Couldn't Joe have taken a few minutes on the porch to fill us in?  *sniffles* I think we see, now, that the TX contingent is holding on to that "lone star" attitude. Et tu, Joe??? How quickly we forget...  *more sniffles*



Well @sadieml might be kidding but I'm not.   This is torture.


----------



## Southern by choice

Baymule said:


> Hey ya'll, it would be real tacky of us to steal Joe's thunder. It's _his _announcement to make, not ours. He almost didn't tell @Devonviolet, swore her to secrecy then blew it and told me and DH. He ought to be home soon, get some sleep and be on here to tell ya'll all about it.



Yeah, it is exciting to wait!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

The only thing that really worried me about house number 2 (and I do like it the best) is that there was no pic of the whole outside of the house....just the porch.  What's up with that?

Waiting is - ARGH!


----------



## Bruce

Perhaps Joe would like to wait until he finds out if they accepted his offer or made a counter that he can live with.

I don't think you "guys" stink for not telling us but it IS kinda rude to say "na na na I've got a secret and I'm not telling".


----------



## Latestarter

The waiting is OVER (I HOPE! Fingers and toes crossed accepting well wishes and prayers for contract acceptance) I wrote an offer on #2. It is EVERYthing depicted in the pictures and more! more to follow!


----------



## Bruce

I win!!!! 

Congrats on finding a place you like Joe. And of course I'm sending good vibes your way. I doubt you would offer something low enough to be insulting. Pretty rare for an initial offer to be accepted so I bet you get your counter in a day or two.

That is the empty house right? So they are likely motivated to sell if a price anything close to reasonable can be agreed on.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Woo hoo!  So glad it turned out to be what you were looking for!  Can't wait to hear that your offer is accepted and you're packing!


----------



## Mini Horses

Wonderful!!!!!!!!!!

We ALL picked   "curtain #2"     

Now we need to hear to rest.    I'm thinking they are "ready" to sell if they are out.  I would think, based on the thought I saw in the photos that it is a lovely place.    I'm dying to know about the "cellar" thingy?


----------



## sadieml

So VERY glad to hear, Joe!!!  As I recall, the only problem with #2 was the price per sq ft was pretty high.  I wasn't crazy about the front entrance, but I expect to be "backdoor friends" anyway--if we ever get to go visit!  In SC backdoor friends aren't the ones you try to hide so you bring 'em around back.  They're the ones you like so much, you don't need to impress them with the entryway and the formal living room/dining room on either side of the front door.  We're backdoor people, who walk right into the kitchen, grab a cup of coffee and sit down to chew the fat.  We may not be social butterflies, but we don't hate people, we're just picky about the ones we hang-out with.  DH wouldn't be nearly as much of a hermit if he were "healthy".  

I hope you get a response (accepting, of course) really soon.  This is all so exciting, and I haven't forgotten the offer to deliver goats from NC!!!    

ps-Ditto to what Bruce said, I understand keeping a promise and letting Joe have his moment, it was the na na na boo boo, that hurted *small sniffle*...


----------



## Ferguson K

Congratulations! I'm really excited for you!


----------



## Devonviolet

sadieml said:


> ps-Ditto to what Bruce said, I understand keeping a promise and letting Joe have his moment, it was the na na na boo boo, that hurted *small sniffle*...


Sorry y'all! It was all in jest. I had already promised I wouldn't tell.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

It's ok! I like  a person who can keep a secret....even if I don't like it when they keep a secret!  LOL


----------



## Latestarter

Just walked in the house 20 minutes ago.  So OK, more "dirt" on the place: The front field is almost perfect hay, bermuda, bahia, some orchard, and very few weedy spots. I'll get in touch with the extension agent and have soil analysis done for both front and rear fields then plan accordingly. I'd like to add some more legume type forage and get the fields in tip top shape. It's maybe a total of 6-7 acres and is almost completely and perfectly fenced with 4 strands of barbed wire, most of it new. Will need to do some minor repairs/adjustments, add a gate or two for ease of access, etc, but other than that, it's ready to grow out a 1/2 dozen steers! Lay of the land is descending from right to left (South to North), front to back (West to East), toward the left back corner (looking toward the house from the street = East) and laid out perfect to put in a retention pond in that corner. Right behind that spot is an almost level area that is directly off the left side (= North) of the house and almost surrounded by copses of trees where I can put a good sized barn with front field and back field entrances as well as the main entrance facing the house (south). I mean almost perfectly situated. The trees will shade it in the summer helping keep it cooler. In addition, the last power pole is within easy reach to run power to the barn so I can post here online while tending the animals 

The back field is another 6-7 acres of nice hay field with copses of trees spread out through it. The fencing back here is in worse shape than that up front, and has been knocked down and lifted in places by deer and hogs. Horses and probably cows would be OK with it, but for goats or sheep (and an LGD), that fencing will need to be repaired. The grasses back here are a little "thinner" but still very few weeds so should be relatively easy to bolster and bring back. Again, the lay of the land runs down toward the back left corner and there's one copse of trees that is placed perfectly to put a nice large kidney shaped pond back there with the trees in the "hollow" of the kidney shape. Both ponds could easily be large and deep enough to stock fish in.

Complete surprise that was unexpected as it wasn't mentioned nor indicated... There is a wet weather, small spring fed stream/creek that borders the left side of the property and runs virtually down the property line (mostly but not entirely) on the neighbor's property and enters a deeper bigger stream that bisects my (to be I hope and trust) property, right inside the tree line at the back of the rear field! This thing is 15-20 feet across and 6-8' deep to reach the stream bed/water. I doubt there are sizable fish in it, but I'm certain I can catch crawdads! (YEA! Mini fresh water lobsters!) I didn't investigate the back wooded area as there was no gate or bridge across the stream to do so, and since we saw a couple of water moccasins at that back fence line above the stream bank, didn't think it would be a good plan to go bushwacking as I wasn't dressed for it or prepared. So I have something to REALLY look forward to when I get the place... I get to chainsaw some trees and build a bridge! 

There's a run in shed in the back pasture with a pipe corral right outside it, and there were two mini horses running around in the fields while I was there. No idea who's they are. The big shed with the 2 windows sits to the right of the house and backs to the back pasture. The run in is back behind it. That shed is I think like 16' deep by 32' wide and has "attic" storage areas on both ends that look 8 feet deep. This shed is presently used for storage and it's big enough that I could put a window AC unit in and use it as a guest house! It's huge! The other shed with the dirt ramp up to the entrance is really like a machine shop for storing lawn tractors/mowers and yard equipment, tools, that sort of thing. That's probably where I'll park my Harley. They had had rain for almost a week straight and both sheds were completely dry inside. They also both have floors, up off the ground, & power to them.

In front of the big shed, they carved out a circular area and put a fire pit in the center. I was telling the REA that I don't have much use for a fire pit, but I could dig it out more and put an above ground pool (like one of those oblong ones that are 24' long and 12' wide, 4 feet deep) there, "semi-sunk" into the ground. I would much rather have a place to cool down during the long hot months than a fire pit that would really only be used once or twice a year by me at best. Hey, there's a thought... I can partition the inside of the shed as a changing room for bathers! 

There are HUGE old oaks loaded with acorns and several mature pecan trees. Lots of good stuff for goats and sheep to browse/graze on. After I get a gate and bridge built, I can fence some of the wooded area in for them to go back there as well. There is a lot of "garbage" on the property that will need to be removed/trashed. However, there's also a lot of "gold" there as well; rolls of barbed wire, sheet steel roofing/siding, roofing shingles, metal pipe for welding, etc.

The inside of the house is everything the pictures show. It's not really "huge', but very good sized and comfortable. There are some minor cosmetics that can be addressed, but it's in VERY good shape! The bedrooms are carpeted with what looks to be new carpet. The wood floors aren't real wood, but a vinyl or laminate of some sort but they are in great shape. I think my TV is too big to fit in the space, but I can put a stained board across and sit it on that. The bathrooms are "dated" but well kept and functional. The kitchen is very nice sized to work in but the area for the refer is small... I won't be able to put one of those huge side by sides in there. The stove/oven is old as is the dishwasher and I'll probably replace both of them.

The outside of the house has a few issues that need to be addressed... no gutters, so the rain comes off the roof right on the front porch steps and they are weak, rotted, slimey and slippery. There's a mature privet hedge right up against the front of the house the full length, and that will need to be removed for mold and rot abatement. The house is pier and beam construction and they have skirting around the house that in many places doesn't reach the ground. As a result I'm concerned about animals getting under the house and doing damage. It will need to be replaced and installed properly with proper venting. There is some rotted trim wood because of the lack of gutters. I'd like to remove the existing front porch completely and replace it with a new one that is longer and deeper.

The rear porch is really nice sized with a sunken jacuzzi in the one corner. The floor boards are older and original and some have started to buckle a bit and are more "springy" than they should be. I'll probably be replacing all that decking sooner rather than later, along with the railings. The jacuzzi is relatively new and in really good shape. It's drained so I couldn't check it, and as a result there's some mold growing on the underside of the cover (no spa chemicals evaporating to keep it away). Funny, while I was over visiting @Devonviolet and her DH, I was commenting on how the jacuzzi would help their physical ailments and she remarked that she "doesn't do bathing suits" I paused for affect then stated that I promised I wouldn't peek, putting my wide spread fingers on both hands in front of my face. We all had a good laugh!

Really sorry about your car issues @Ferguson K  My CB handle is "Rimbender" from way back in the late 70's (KBCZ9031)... Jumped a stump in my new 4x4 truck and came right down on another one ripping out the sidewall and bending the rim. Wasn't fun changing out the spare back in the deep Maine woods with black flies and deer flies trying to eat me alive and sweat blinding me as I worked in the mud trying to get it changed. Luckily, the tire shop was able to pound the rim back into shape and it was fine if not perfectly smooth and pretty. But then I don't really care if my trucks are pretty anyway... they're trucks...

So, The other realtor has been briefed by my REA as to what the offer is. I have already written the earnest money check and the sellers option check to allow for a home inspection. So the other side knows I'm serious. I've heard nothing back in response yet.  Just texted w/my TX REA... nothing from the seller yet...


----------



## Latestarter

OK, forgot to mention the storm celler... It's a... storm celler... big enough for 4-5 people. There were folding chairs down in there and some shelving. I'm sure it will work just fine but I don't think I can or will really use it as a storage area as there aren't really legit stairs down into it... It's like a cross between stairs and a ladder... very steep. I'll put a weather radio down there and a battery operated lamp and some bottled water and maybe some snack type foods so if I ever have to use it, I'll be OK to stay in there for a bit.


----------



## babsbag

I don't think I remember a thing your wrote past the water moccasins. But what I do remember is another reason I love CA.  

The land sounds great, pasture would be oh so nice, (but not worth a snake)  
Houses can be fixed as you like as long as they are livable so hope you hear some good news soon.


----------



## Ferguson K

The place sounds awesome and amazing. I'm really excited for you!


----------



## Southern by choice

That everything works out!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Sounds great
I hope it falls in place for you


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all! I hope so too. 



babsbag said:


> I don't think I remember a thing your wrote past the water moccasins. But what I do remember is another reason I love CA.



But wait a minute here... Why would the cotton mouths bother you when you have rattlers? These weren't aggressive at all... the bigger one was the first to disappear into a hole in the bank. The smaller one followed at a nice slow pace... I may have mentioned that I like snakes... even the poisonous ones. As long as I know they're there so I can watch out for them. I'm sure there are rattlers and copper heads there (the property I'm trying to buy) as well. I'm really wondering if it's too far north for alligators...   I like deep fried gator nuggets


----------



## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> But wait a minute here... Why would the cotton mouths bother you when you have rattlers?



For the same reason I prefer Earthquakes over tornadoes...it is what I am used to. But seriously, rattlesnakes don't swim; the thought of finding a poisonous snake in my pond is just creepy. I really don't mind snakes as a species...only ones that can kill me or my animals. After my LGD and her puppy got bit last year I did some research on what the snake bite can potentially do and I have a whole new respect for them. My dog and her pup were both fine, but we were very very lucky.


----------



## Hens and Roos

on your offer


----------



## Mini Horses

SOUNDS perfect  ---  except for snakes!!!  Hate them.
Love the nut trees, though.  Running water is great.  Fields of good grass is a blessing.  Buildings in place, most fence.  General maintenance/building oopsies can be corrected.   WOW.

Dang waiting is the worst      so I sure hope they sign soon.
With a few "things" to do, you will be stay busy and have pics & info to feed to us.   Nice.  

Gosh, another thread had someone moving to TX fm CA.   One of those places, in Paris, was very attractive to me....and I'm not even trying to move.   But what a deal it appeared to be.  I could pay cash & really retire.  Something to consider but,  not knowing area and all the yr round "stuff" it would be a hard decision.   Why is TX so seemingly good for a move?   I've been there a few times but, only for visits, horse shows/auctions, etc. Been awhile.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Come on over!  The more the merrier!  I'm so happy so many folks are moving to that part of Texas - I need a place to 'run' to if a ginormous hurricane is coming our way!  A place with pens and fences and room for goats and horses, lol!!


----------



## Mike CHS

Hopefully it won't be long before you hear something back on your offer.  We had panels on our house that didn't keep any critter out that had the least bit of interest getting in.  We had countless mice and even a ground hog for awhile.  The first thing we did was pull off all the panels and had brick put in so now you can't even tell the house is on piers.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Awesome!! i hope it works out well.....see we knew #2 was the one lol. At least this one has fairly minor repairs and not full remodels needed. I've lived in while remodeling 2 different houses now and it sucks so badly, i dont think i will ever do it again.


----------



## Latestarter

Received the sellers disclosures (dated 1 April, so he's been trying to sell for a while... almost 5 months!) via Email this morning. Required by TX RE law... doesn't mean the contract offer has been accepted or countered or anything. I did notice he checked that there are no smoke detectors, so will need to buy and install some of those for sure! Also the septic was last pumped in 2010, so I'm gonna have to get that done as well. No survey attached, so don't know if there is one or the seller's REA just didn't have it. Roof is, according to disclosure, architectural shingles, 3 years old, so should be good another 10-15 years or a tornado, whichever comes first. Says the septic was last pumped in 2010, so I'll get that done as well, which will allow me to (find &) make sure the tank and stuff is sound and not needing repairs.

Fem, you'll be more than welcome to come, along with all your precious animals! By next hurricane season I expect to have the barn, cross fencing, and more than enough pasture space to be able to help. If a hurricane threatens later this year, I could still help, but no barn yet, just the run in shed. I plan on putting some animal purchase contracts out this fall for spring kidding/lambing season. That will force me to get my buns in gear and get all this stuff done and ready for them to arrive. Getting very excited at the prospects! It's a 3 br house and just me, so room for house guests as well.   I'm sure I'll enjoy the company 

I'd like to brick it up Mike and may do that, but a lot will depend on cost as I have some other expenses that have to come first It will be difficult on one side as the attached carport with concrete slab is right up against the side of the house. Not sure about that as I didn't go under the house. After a week of more or less solid rain everything was just too wet.

Mini, I'm moving to TX because it's the "free-est" state without the overbearing govt and regulations as well as no income taxes. Property taxes are high(er), depending on what county you buy in, but they are in the Hampton Roads area of VA as well. they're obviously much higher in major cities like Dallas. Sales taxes are a little higher than VA, but then you only pay them when you buy something... Guess they need to get money from somewhere to keep the (main) roads paved (many "country" roads aren't!)... It's just as hot and humid in TX as it is there, just for a little longer. And they have much "nicer" winters... It's plenty green in that portion of the state as they get plenty of rain annually. And the best thing is you can still get nice properties with some land for a reasonable price! Unlike out west here, I'll "own" the rain that God provides over my property. It doesn't "belong" to someone down stream from me.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> Fem, you'll be more than welcome to come, along with all your precious animals! By next hurricane season I expect to have the barn, cross fencing, and more than enough pasture space to be able to help. If a hurricane threatens later this year, I could still help, but no barn yet, just the run in shed. I plan on putting some animal purchase contracts out this fall for spring kidding/lambing season. That will force me to get my buns in gear and get all this stuff done and ready for them to arrive. Getting very excited at the prospects! It's a 3 br house and just me, so room for house guests as well.  I'm sure I'll enjoy the company



That's awesome!  Thanks for the offer!  It would take quite a hurricane to make me load everybody up and run, but ya never know when it might actually happen...


----------



## Latestarter

And now that offer can be considered FIRM!  I'm under contract for the home! Listed 179K, offered 165K, countered and accepted 170K. YES! I'm sitting here shaking! LOL Expect closing on or about 9/29!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Fantastic news!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Whooo Hoooo!  Congrats - that's fantastic, awesome, incredible news!   Now - take a deep breath or 12!


----------



## babsbag

You did it...

"I can't believe you bought the WHOLE thing."

Pretty darn scary isn't it...


----------



## Devonviolet

As your nearest BYH neighbor, let me be the first to welcome you    to the GREAT STATE OF TEXAS!  

 
WOOHOO!!!
​


----------



## Latestarter

I'm as happy as a kid in a candy store already overdosing on sugar! I was really shaking like a sugar OD as well.   It's not really scary to me, just very exciting! I'm really taking the final step necessary to follow my dream of having a small working farm! Although it just created a dozen or more steps in the process   This is just awesome.  My son is talking about coming out to help me move in and see the place. He's gonna love it! With him and his wife working and 4 young kids, it's really tough for them to get away. They've all been here so I recommended if he can help to do so there in TX as I expect that to be over a weekend when he can possibly get away. I should be OK at this end packing out. That way he'll know where it is to come again, and he'll get to see his inheritance first hand.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

It's really cool to see someone taking the steps to fulfill their dreams!  Thanks for letting us follow along your journey!


----------



## Latestarter

So I called my lender to find out what's going on and ask to have a new LO assigned. I explained that the one I dealt with a week ago was argumentative and was only interested in telling me what they couldn't do. That she said she would Email me pre-approval letters and then didn't do so, and that I'm running out of time and now have a fully executed purchase contract. She contacted the Dallas, TX team lead and he was in a meeting and said he will call me as soon as he's out. I expect that call in 1.5 hours. My REA already knows that I need copies of the fully executed paperwork post haste. He said he's on it. He's been great!

Still waiting to hear back from my REA here on the property inspection repair requirements. They stated the repairs they want need to be bdone by licensed contractors and they're simple handyman fixes except one. They want an electrical breaker box installed in the garage. Right now it's direct wired to the CB panel in the house via galvanized pipe to the garage. I told my realtor I don't know what can of worms that will open as I don't know if the original owner pulled permits and did that legally. And I'd need that done by a licensed electrician which will be mucho dinero!


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## Latestarter

Right after sending the last I got a call from my REA here. Still no answer from the other side on what to do regarding their objections and the requested contractor performing the fixes... SO I continue to wait. No biggie as the 3 are simple ones. Just that electrical one is a major issue.


----------



## babsbag

I get the thing about contractors and permits, only CA is probably worse. When we put the solar on our house I thought it would be inspected by the county so I was scrambling to put skirting around my deck so the county inspector wouldn't see that I built it on these awesome (not approved) deck blocks and not buried piers. We didn't pull a permit for the deck so I wanted it to look old and DONE.  Ended up having the state inspect the solar since it is a manufactured home, and they could have cared less about my deck. But it got me to get the project done so guess that was a good thing.

Hope that electrical modification is an easy one.


----------



## Mini Horses

So are you able to get possession/temp rental on your new TX home before closing?    Does the sell and buy overlap-maybe you don't need any time?  I just remember the closing was soon.

I'm so excited for you!!!!!


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## Latestarter

The best way for me to do the move is by drop trailer. All in business days (includes Saturdays), I have it 3 days here to load, then 3-5 days to arrive there. I have 2 days after arrival notification (free) to sched delivery. They drop it at the new place for 3 days, then come get it. So basically I'll have it dropped here on 9/20. I close here 9/22 (supposedly). They come pick it up on 9/23. I have to vacate here on 9/24 (48 hours after close). I was told it should arrive in TX and be deliverable from 28th-30th. I close there 9/29 (supposedly), so I'll have it delivered on the 29th or probably 30th. Then I'll have till the 4th or 5th of Oct to empty it. During the interim, I'll be on "vacation" and visiting various hotels with pools and jacuzzis to recover from loading and prepare for unloading  Since I'll do a walk through on the property before closing, I expect to leave my dogs there at the house while I go to closing. The back yard is completely fenced, so they should be fine there for a couple of hours till I get back.

I have a nice oversized cot that will go in the truck with me, so I'll use that while I wait for my household effects to arrive. I also expect I'll clean out and fill the jacuzzi at the house so it can be put to immediate use.  I wish I could bring my grill with me, but I don't know if I'll have room for it since the Harley is going to eat up most of my trailer space... My lawn tractor stays here but the rest of my lawn and garden tools and regular mower need to come with.


----------



## Southern by choice

This is so exciting! So very happy for you! 
You have been waiting so long for this. 
What is an extra special in this deal is you have some amazing people that you already "know" in TX! 

@Nifty - pretty amazing forum ya got here!


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!! That's awesome


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> And now that offer can be considered FIRM!  I'm under contract for the home! Listed 179K, offered 165K, countered and accepted 170K. YES! I'm sitting here shaking! LOL Expect closing on or about 9/29!



Geez Joe, that is almost like stealing!   Location location location. Couldn't get much of anything here for that kind of money. 

And $100K LESS that what you are selling your CO home for leaving money for the things you want to enhance.

I am very happy for you and the dogs


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## Latestarter

I just had a nice grilled rib eye, and the dogs had a couple of grilled and cut up NY strips (plus my scraps) mixed with their dry... My animals don't suffer much...


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## Latestarter

It's really amazing when you think about it. I'm trading a 30+ year old double wide trailer/manufactured home on 1.4 acres for a nice larger, newer, better condition, stick built home, with a jacuzzi, on ~19 acres, w/outbuildings, already fenced, in the country... Should have done this a year ago but doubt I'd have gotten the sales price I did by waiting till now. Still no word on/from an appraiser for this place...


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## norseofcourse

I am so happy for you!!  It's been a lot of work getting to this point, and a lot of work still to come, but I know right now you're walking about 5 feet above the ground


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## AClark

Congrats! I just called a realtor tonight to get the ball rolling for us in OK. My fingers crossed that the rest of yours goes without a hitch!


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## Latestarter

Great!  for you!


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## BlessedWithGoats

Congratulations!! How exciting!


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## misfitmorgan

Congratulations!!!!


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## Kusanar

I must have gotten super lucky with my place, I know it's rough, but it's a little over 10 acres, spring fed pond (drained, just need to put the earth dam back), lots of really nice grass, small barn (old dairy farm), partly wooded, but mostly grass, BIG house (needs a TON of work though, ceiling has fallen in in one bedroom and bathroom no longer exists), and a singlewide trailer (no power or water to it, but that could be changed) for just over $50,000


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## Latestarter

Sounds to me like you basically got the property for the land value... There's going to need to be a pretty substantial additional investment of funds to get it back to an ideal living situation... If I were 20 years younger, I'd have considered something like that, though with the home in that shape and a single wide, I don't think I could have found decent financing. Wish you the best of success with it though!


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## Mike CHS

Latestarter - I do seriously think this was a meant to be home for you.  I got a seriously good deal on our place but we have put a pot of money into it not to mention a ton of sweat equity.  I'm glad we did what we did but I think you have the potential to get set to get livestock about the time we are and we have been at it for 3 1/2 years.


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## misfitmorgan

Kusanar said:


> I must have gotten super lucky with my place, I know it's rough, but it's a little over 10 acres, spring fed pond (drained, just need to put the earth dam back), lots of really nice grass, small barn (old dairy farm), partly wooded, but mostly grass, BIG house (needs a TON of work though, ceiling has fallen in in one bedroom and bathroom no longer exists), and a singlewide trailer (no power or water to it, but that could be changed) for just over $50,000



Sounds like ours 20 acres, tons of work, falling apart trailer...but old dairy barn and some outbuildings...for $45,000


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## babsbag

@Latestarter, I completely agree about being young and buying a fixer upper. We had a fixer in the city and "fixed" it for 23 years. It was a great home but boy oh boy was it a lot of work. Before that we had built a house so I insisted when we moved that we either buy already built or buy a manufactured home. I was NOT building another house, ever. We put in the laminate flooring (which I hate), tiled the kitchen back splash, installed the wood stove, and built the garage, the rest was done. There is enough to do on acreage without having to focus on the roof over your head too.


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## greybeard

I went the other way. Acquired the property first, cleared it, had a house built, fenced and cross fenced, then fence some more, then built the grass farm, built the working pens, and then put cattle on it, then came the outbuildings. Mostly did it that way so if something happened to me at any stage along the way after the house was finished,  wife would have a nice place to live no matter what. I do not regret it.


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## Latestarter

Thankfully (or not - depending on your viewpoint) I no longer have a wife to worry about. It's just me, which has good and bad sides... I really don't have to worry about providing for a surviving spouse. Whatever there is left when I'm gone will go to my kids, and what they choose to do with it is up to them. I'll obviously try to do things in a manner to leave them something of value as if there's no value for them, how could there be any for me? At the same time, I have nobody to help share the load, work, successes, failures, and life in general. But I've made some friends locally there and that will suffice


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## Baymule

Joe, God is blessing you in abundance! There will be bumps along the way, but the hand of God is assisting you as you make this move. There is something I call The Attitude Of Gratitude. The way is works is right when everything blows up in your face and poo rains down all over you, step back, take a deep breath and spend 10 minutes thanking God for everything that is _right_ in your life. After you've done that, scrape the poo off and thank God for the extra fertilizer!  Then get on with what ever you are doing. You will go from grumpy/angry  to smiling and happy.


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## babsbag

My grandma used to tell me  "I have the same clothes to get glad in that I had to get mad in."

Attitude is more important than we realize.


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## Mini Horses

I so agree, even tho we are "living our dream"  (ain't it a shame we have to be so old to start!??) it is nice to have someone to share with -- the ups/downs, encouragement, general input, our joy & frustration....like you, I do this alone.   So the forum "family" is a nice place to vent & share.   Most of them are in similar situations -- not necessarily loners -- so they understand how the frustration and pleasure works during & after a loooong day of labor & sweat, the good birth of a kid, the loss of a lamb, the hatching of chickens.   They understand and support.

Even at great distance, sometimes you can feel them next to you.  It helps.  Now I would probably do more with another to share & I do not mean a husband/wife, just a good friend or neighbor, or child, grandchild  -- a person there on a fairly regular basis to look, pull a weed, help hang a gate, etc.   Not interested in much more, I do enjoy the benefits of being my own boss & making MY own schedule, no $$ questions or dirty laundry.  (I do miss my hubby who was a jewel and shared my passions)

Now, if someone could just clean my house while I finish fencing, it would be great!My late DH hired a maid & helped me fence!


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## babsbag

I can say from experience that the frustration of having that significant other and still doing it alone is a lot more frustrating than doing it by ourselves in the first place. Only I get the dirty laundry and dirty dishes. I get help on occasion and I can get it if I beg but usually with an attitude attached so most of the time I just go it alone. They are gone most of the week anyways so it works...barely. But I did convince them to help me build a dairy...


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## Latestarter

So I've been looking at tractors... new and used... and I came across this. It just hit CL a few hours ago and if I were there I believe it would be sold!

http://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/5747270804.html

Just went to look at it again and the lister has deleted it... wonder if it sold already?


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## Mini Horses

That is a FANTASTIC deal!!!!

I have a Branson & love it.  I also bought the backhoe....already had bushhog, disc, grader blade, post auger.   Mine is smaller than this one but great for my farm.   Red is my favorite color.

Starts & works with no backtalk, dirty laundry....ooops


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## Latestarter

Just edited my post... went back to look again and it's gone...


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## Latestarter

Yeah, I've been looking at the big names; Kubota, Deere, Massey Ferguson, Case... But really, I think I'll get a much better deal and lower cost and I really like the looks/specs of the Branson. Also been looking at package deals on new units. By the time I'm ready to buy it will be the end of the season and I may be able to get a close out. Tractor w/bucket, back hoe, box blade, brush hog and post digger with 20-22' trailer to pull it all on. That deal above was sweet! a month too soon for me though


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## NH homesteader

It would sell here for that price in about 5 minutes. That was a nice tractor. I apparently saw it before it disappeared.  We don't have a tractor. It's awful!  We have to borrow  my step-dads tractor for big things... Like moving our giant chicken coop.  Most things we do by hand.  Someday... Until then I'll be up here complaining about my back!


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## Devonviolet

I agree with Bay. When the time is right, God will put the right tractor in front of you.  I waited a year & a half for the right trailer, and a brand new one finally came along for a lower price than I have have yet to see.  I'm giving God all the credit for that one!


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## NH homesteader

Don't get a Deere if you are mechanically inclined and like fixing your own equipment.


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## Latestarter

Well, it didn't last but a couple of hours...


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## Latestarter

When I first saw it @Devonviolet , I immediately thought of you! Was so tempted to call you about it!


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## frustratedearthmother

We found a deal on a New Holland with barely 400 hours and it's been good to us.  Got a package deal on the tractor, trailer, front end loader, mower, two kinds of plows, a round hay bale mover thingy, and a blade.  It's blue... I like blue.


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## Latestarter

I like blue too, but what I like best is a really good deal that saves me $$!


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## babsbag

I have a green Deere, her name is Lizzy. We bought her new as I couldn't turn down free 0% financing. Just paid her off in April and she is mine...all mine. No problems at all in 5 years. But then I don't mow or brush hog with her either. We have a backhoe, a rototiller, augers, box scraper, rock rake, disc, and front loader. She is easy to use, auto transmission and power steering. She was built for ME. 

I also have a newly acquired walk behind bobcat. Really cool little machine.


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## TAH

All I can say is congratulations on something's 

I will write more tomorrow 
I am tired and going to bed. Once my 5 siblings are in bed.


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## Baymule

When you buy a tractor, make sure it's big enough to pick up a round bale. Our's is a 23 horse Kubota and it won't pick up round bales. Fortunately our hay guy lives right around the corner, stores our hay in his barn and brings them to us one at a time. But we got a sweet deal on it with front end, trailer, box blade, bush hog, forks, and disc. Her name is Marigold and I love my tractor!!!


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## frustratedearthmother

Amen @Baymule  - that's the main reason we have a tractor.  Once I switched to round bales my life got so much easier!


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## babsbag

Round bales are not common in CA and most people feed square ones that weigh about 100-120 lbs. I have been feeding 1400 lb bales as I save some serious money and I don't have to stack them. I go and buy one a week but I do wish my tractor could pick them up. I bring them home in  a dump trailer and unload them into a hay shelter and there they stay. Would be so nice to be able to carry one out to the field. But I looked at how big of a tractor I would need to do that and it would be a horse. I'll stick to Lizzy but I think about a bigger tractor every now and then...more now than then.  

We have some tight spots on our land, sheds by trees, garage by a fence, etc, and sometimes that is the only access to another part of our land. So Lizzy is a little less the 5' wide with just her front loader and she can get into those tight spots, another reason to keep her.


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## Kusanar

Latestarter said:


> Sounds to me like you basically got the property for the land value... There's going to need to be a pretty substantial additional investment of funds to get it back to an ideal living situation... If I were 20 years younger, I'd have considered something like that, though with the home in that shape and a single wide, I don't think I could have found decent financing. Wish you the best of success with it though!


Yeah, it is for land value, and the land is all I need, I don't live there and have no immediate plans to. So, the buildings, rough as they are, are a bonus as if I need to stay out there all night in the dead of winter with a sick horse, I can, there are wood stoves and running water, no indoor plumbing since the bathroom fell in, but I could take the chill off the air and catch a nap near the wood stove if I need to. Also, doing chores in winter, it would be nice to have somewhere to keep a change of dry clothes so when I get wet messing with water tubs or in the snow I don't have to wear cold wet clothes the rest of the day.


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## Latestarter

Excellent points all! That works out about perfect for you then


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## Latestarter

I've been looking at nothing less than about 35 Horse Power... From what I've been reading the general consensus is the tractor should be 1.5-2HP per acre being worked. It's not really the HP that limits the weight you can lift... it's the weight of the tractor itself... It has to be heavy enough to stay on the ground when you lift weight on the other side of the fulcrum point. Of course the hydraulic pressure has to be sufficient and metal strength of the lifting arms as well. Also, the weight differs if you measure it in the bucket or at the lynch pin. Anyway, out here in CO they have the round bales and they also have 2500+ pound square bales. I'm looking at tractors with 3000+ pound lifting capability. I also want the higher HP for the PTO(s) (would like rear & side PTO's but having that side one costs). Been looking at the package deals for new ones and it seems the limiting factor is the back hoe... If you get a back hoe, you get none of the other attachments, or you get 4-5 other attachments and no back hoe. With that stream on the property, I really want/need the back hoe for bridge building. It will also come in handy for some of the other stuff I want to do. Right now, the "included" implements I know I'd use almost immediately are the brush hog, box blade & post hole digger

Awww who am I kidding... I just "want it all!"  I also have to consider weight as my present truck is really only rated to 500# tongue weight and 5000# trailer load. I know I can pull more than that for short/reasonable distances, and there's a built in safety margin so I could probably go to 6500-7000# before I'd be pushing it, really taking chances. Most of the tractors I've been considering weigh in at ~4000-4500 pounds with bucket and back hoe. Add another 1000 for trailer, and I should be fine pulling it.

I've been thinking about trading this truck (2005 K1500 extd cab) in on a newer 2012+ K2500HD extd cab diesel. But wow... 20-30K for a new(er) truck and another 20-30K for tractor and attachments... I also need a trailer to pull it all on. Most of the package deals include a 20-22 foot trailer, but they are vehicle width trailers, meaning I couldn't carry a car or truck on it... too narrow. If I'm going to get a trailer, it needs to be multi functional/capable. It needs to be wide enough that If I want to pull a full sized pickup truck on it, I'll be able to. So add some more "cost" to the purchase.

That's gonna seriously deplete my "hoping to have" bank account... I also have to pay attention to monthly costs as that's the predominant reason I'm moving... to lower my monthly cost of living. I find it very easy to spend way more than I take in...   I also have a number of capitol improvements planned for the house and property... as well as new appliances to buy. Some of that stuff is highest priority and can't wait or be put off. They all need funding too.  Dreams can be very expensive...

Babs, sounds like you need a new bigger tractor; add to your collection... Kinda like goat sizes... Maybe a new infliction is developing? Tractor math!!


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## misfitmorgan

Belarus Tractors are actually cheap but made really well and are workhorses.

Massey Ferguson's are hard to kill.. DH old boss has 3 of them and he only keeps them fixed enough to run and not in good condition and he has been doing that for over 20yrs and they do still run lol. Two them are MF 408's almost 40yrs old and going strong.

The old David Brown's are good too but the parts can be a little finicky.

Zetor also makes good tractors....Zetor is nice because it is only recomended to be serviced every 500hrs (NH, Kubota, etc suggest every 300hrs)..speed wise for the hydro models you will get more speed out of a NH most hydro models for NH top out at 40km/hr, zetor tops out at 30km/hr. Tractors in the 80hp range a brand new Zetor is 10k less then NH and 12k less then Kubota, 20k less then Deere and no that isnt because it uses junk parts.

Deere will cost you mega bucks to replace any parts...they are super proud of that green paint. Honestly...they break more often then the other older or non-main brand tractors.

I dont exspect your going to need something like a Kubota M7060 or a Zetor 80 but there is still a fairly large price difference in smaller tractors as well. We want a 80HP to till and such and a 40hp later for garden work, moving round bales etc.

@babsbag
0 down 0% finacing for 5yrs is pretty common...atm Kubota is running that deal at most dealerships. We are either putting a tractor in with our farm loan or doing one of those deals.

@Latestarter
You stuck a post in there before i got mine finished lol.


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## Latestarter

Sorry... what is an "NH"?   I've pretty much already ruled out a Deere... too expensive. Pretty much the same for Kubota...


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## Goat Whisperer

Latestarter said:


> ... I also have to pay attention to monthly costs as that's the predominant reason I'm moving... to lower my monthly cost of living.


...And you decided you want to get into GOATS?!?!


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Sorry... what is an "NH"?   I've pretty much already ruled out a Deere... too expensive. Pretty much the same for Kubota...



Green paint is pretty expensive.


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## Baymule

When we had our barn built, I insisted on a 12' wide aisle and about 14' high. My DH thought I had lost my mind. (as usual)  

DH-WHY do you want the aisle so high??
Me-Because I don't want to bash my brains out if I ride my horse through the barn.
DH-(snort) You're not going to hit your head on a beam!
Me-Darn right, because it's going to be high enough and wide enough to run a cab tractor down the middle if I want to!
DH-We don't have a cab tractor!
Me-I don't care! I want it HIGH! And you never know--I might GET a cab tractor!
DH-grumble, grumble, cuss words, grumble some more..........

then I wanted the hay bale set in the barn.......

Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!!!

Joe, buying a new tractor, get as big of a tractor that you can afford. You won't be sorry later that youu have the HP to do whatever you want.


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## NH homesteader

NH -  New Holland?


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Sorry... what is an "NH"?   I've pretty much already ruled out a Deere... too expensive. Pretty much the same for Kubota...


NH
New Holland


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## misfitmorgan

yes New Holland...sorry.


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## Baymule

There is a commercial on TV by a local Zetor dealer who claims "no electronics" as part of his sales pitch. I can only assume (here's where I get in trouble-assuming) that he means no sensors. Sensors are expensive, they go out and the whole thing shuts down--PITA! Might be worth checking into. Imagine-a tractor a "regular" person could work on!


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## misfitmorgan

Deere and NH are kind of like buying a cadillac instead of a ford...but you dont get the extra bells and whistles lol.

i love Deere honestly and Kobata too but i cant and wont afford their marked up prices.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> There is a commercial on TV by a local Zetor dealer who claims "no electronics" as part of his sales pitch. I can only assume (here's where I get in trouble-assuming) that he means no sensors. Sensors are expensive, they go out and the whole thing shuts down--PITA! Might be worth checking into. Imagine-a tractor a "regular" person could work on!



DH fixed tractors for 10+yrs so he knows the ins and outs of pretty much all of them. Deere is the most exspensive brand of tractor to fix hands down, second place is kubota....way down the line is Massey, david brown....then Belarus and Zetor.

Yes they mean no sensors...or other pricey to replace "un-needed" gadgets. We borrow our friend Zetor time to time and they really are super nice tractors and DH has fixed it once and done the regular maintenance on it and both of those were easy and not expensive....bearing in mind what "not expensive" is in the tractor world. We also borrow our neighbors Belarus...in 30yrs he has only had one major breakdown and that only cost 3k to fix. Have you seen the prices on replacement seals for Deere or Kabota yet? Sit down first lol.


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## misfitmorgan

I highly suggest looking at not only the initial price of the tractor but the replacement parts and maintenance part prices. Some companies are like printers.....the printer is cheap but the ink will kill your wallet.


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## Latestarter

Well, ideally I'll find a deal like the one that lasted 5 minutes after I posted it here last night It was a 35 or 40 HP, 2012 tractor with all the attachments for 12K. I want to say it was a Kubota, but it may have been one of the other brands I've been looking at. I'm really attracted to the Branson tractors... for price, specs, and looks (VERY important, right ladies?).


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## misfitmorgan

Looks are the most important lol!!

If it was an Orange tractor it was either Kubota, AGCO(Allis Chalmers became AGCO which owns Massey now and a bunch of other brands Hesston, Gleaner etc.), or Fendt(Owned by AGCO),


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## Latestarter

I really like the blue tractors, but red works for me as well. Orange or green are nice, but costly colors. Just checked out the Zetor but it looks like they only have the bucket loader for the front and a drum mower for the back... can't find any other rear attachments for it?


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## misfitmorgan

Branson is made by Kukje which also makes 51different John Deere tractors....in South Korea. Also builds Cummins engines, manufactures Century Tractors, merged with Montana Tractors...AND makes 5 different Zetor tractors 

So im going to assume Branson is a good brand but hope prices run more towards Zetor then Deere.


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## misfitmorgan

No there are more attachments, forks, bale spear, etc....Zetor uses a Euro Quick Attach system...so any "euro style quick attach" attachment will work fine. If you talk to a dealer they can give you the info. I will admit Zetor's website kinda sucks.

Youtube video on the quick attach


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## Latestarter

Here's what I was posting about that I was most interested in. Of course this is purchasing new. If I could find this package for sale by someone who bought 2-3 years ago, I should be able to get it in the teens... vice near 30K.
http://www.bigredsonline.net/--xInventoryDetail?id=1401082  Of course that's without the back hoe... with the backhoe is about the same price, but no other implements are included. And as I stated, the trailer is a "narrow" width, so add to price for a wider trailer.


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## AClark

What kind of truck are you driving late? In all honesty, if you're going to get an older diesel, I'd avoid duramax. I would also avoid 2004 and up diesel Ford's. The 6.0 and 6.4L engines on Ford are known for issues with the head studs, and need to be bulletproofed. 1999-2003 has the 7.3L Turbo diesel and it is a beast of an engine. If you get something newer in a Ford, don't buy it unless they have proof it has been bulletproofed - it is a bear working on them and a lot of the major engine work requires the entire cab to be pulled off - which equals around 12 hours of labor - yeah, you do the math. The 7.3 doesn't require that, so a lot cheaper to work on. 
Not sure what your price range is, but I bought my 2000 F350 dually (4 door) for $9000. It has the 7.3L turbo diesel made by International. It has 191,000 miles and change on it and it runs great. Other than some minor issues (original starter went out, a couple of cheap sensors, and my HPOP blew apart - which was expensive ($450 for the part) but it was obviously really worn out) it runs great.  I have towed over 12,000 lbs on it (6000 lb flat bed backhoe trailer with a 6000 lb pickup on it) from Arizona to here. No problems at all other than my load was placed poorly and you couldn't get up to 65 because the trailer got squirrelly. The backhoe trailer is a bumper pull too. With almost 200k miles I expect some things to wear out now - but the motor I will get at least 3-400,000 miles out of. The transmission is original (automatic) but is still shifting fine even under stress, though I imagine that will need an overhaul in another 50-60k miles. 

The only problem you might have is trying to find one. They are getting scarce because most of us that have them, won't let go of them. I get good fuel economy with it 15-16 MPG with that 12000 lb load, closer to 20 freeway without a load. What is really awesome is if I need OEM parts, I can call Ford, or International to order them. 

Here's a pic when I hauled my old pickup. You can see how "off" the load is, with more weight on the tongue that it needed to be, but I had no brakes on the old pickup when I got it up on there, so backing it on wasn't going to happen.


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## misfitmorgan

That does look like a nice package.

You also probly want a bale spear...you can pick them up cheap $200-300 brand new.

The Drum mower on the Zetor is for hay/forage to cut it for baling. If your planning on hay you might check prices on hay equipment as well. Mower, rake, baler, hay wagon/trailer.

They have a used 2005 Brand 4720(47hp) on that site asking 18K.

Finding one that is 2-3yrs old 9K+ cheaper is not likely to happen. Tractors are not like cars and hold their value for a very long time. That same site has a 1957 Ferguson 36hp for 3k...which is a good deal.


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## babsbag

@Latestarter, don't rule out a Bobcat. Their quick attach for attachments is the bomb, they have down pressures for augers, and the track layers are amazingly surefooted. Also what ever you get think about 4 wheel drive and wheel weights. I got tired of pulling our old Ford tractor out of the mud or off a slight incline with the Tundra. After getting the 4 WD fixed for the 2nd time and still not seeing it work we bought Lizzy. She has never been stuck.

Also, think about which implements you will use the most and which ones you could rent for a week. Most of ours came with our old tractor, but we use the box scraper and the rototiller the most. The disc is for future and the rock rake is at a friend's house more than mine. I now have a trencher and augers with down pressure with my little Bobcat so our small backhoe will be used even less than before and the augers on Lizzy probably never. In our hard ground they just bounce.


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## babsbag

When we were looking for a compact tractor Kubota, Bobcat, New Holland, Deere, and another orange one called a Kioti were all about the same price to buy; the Kioti was a little cheaper. I based my decision on size, cost of financing, and on where I had to go for service and parts if I needed it; never thought about looking at the cost of the parts. Deeres are very popular out here, especially in the commercial farming so service is quick and easy but so far we haven't needed any. *knock on wood*.


----------



## Mini Horses

The one that came & went so fast was a Branson.   

Mine is named Arnie   after Schwartzenager    Mine has back & belly PTO, have never used belly one.    While I sometimes think I may have gotten a larger one, it isn't really needed for what I do 98% of the time.  3 of my neighbors have larger if necessary.  So right now I'm thinking this is great! 

I love  to set the cruise and just mow, disc, etc.   Waited a long time for Arnie!  One day I called the dealer and said "bring it to me".


----------



## Latestarter

There's no way I'm buying ANY thing that was born the same year I was, so that '57 tractor just ain't happenin'!  I'm just in the window shopping mode right now anyway... I need to get settled in down there and get the household operating before I start worrying about the rest of it. I'm sure the right "find" will be presented for me when the time is right  I feel I'm living with divine oversight lately. Don't know what I did to deserve it, but I'm all about rolling with it! I'm not worried about it. In the end it will happen the way it's supposed to.

As for the replacement truck, I wasn't looking for a one ton... was looking for a 3/4 ton HD. I don't want a dually. Tires on 4 rims are more than enough to replace. Yeah, I know the newer diesels are a lot more "techno" and I won't be working on it in either case. If something breaks, I don't have the knowledge or experience to work on it. So I'm stuck paying $100+/hour labor charges.

I won't touch a Ram, and really am not a Ford kinda guy. Been a GM truck guy my entire life. Yeah, I know, they aint the best either. Really, over the past 10 years, they've all become homogenized anyway... Kinda like our political system... they're all basically the same. You can't get the good things from one installed to match up with the good things on another. I love the cummins deisels, but also love the allison transmissions... Can you get them together? Not on a stock truck... I'm sure y'all get what I'm saying here. I've already rebuilt (AAmco) 2 automatic transmissions (different trucks) from GM so that's my highest concern. I've never had to replace or rebuild an engine (yet! ). and a nice thing with GM over ford... they have awesome AC!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> There's no way I'm buying ANY thing that was born the same year I was, so that '57 tractor just ain't happenin'!  I'm just in the window shopping mode right now anyway... I need to get settled in down there and get the household operating before I start worrying about the rest of it. I'm sure the right "find" will be presented for me when the time is right  I feel I'm living with divine oversight lately. Don't know what I did to deserve it, but I'm all about rolling with it! I'm not worried about it. In the end it will happen the way it's supposed to.
> 
> As for the replacement truck, I wasn't looking for a one ton... was looking for a 3/4 ton HD. I don't want a dually. Tires on 4 rims are more than enough to replace. Yeah, I know the newer diesels are a lot more "techno" and I won't be working on it in either case. If something breaks, I don't have the knowledge or experience to work on it. So I'm stuck paying $100+/hour labor charges.
> 
> I won't touch a Ram, and really am not a Ford kinda guy. Been a GM truck guy my entire life. Yeah, I know, they aint the best either. Really, over the past 10 years, they've all become homogenized anyway... Kinda like our political system... they're all basically the same. You can't get the good things from one installed to match up with the good things on another. I love the cummins deisels, but also love the allison transmissions... Can you get them together? Not on a stock truck... I'm sure y'all get what I'm saying here. I've already rebuilt (AAmco) 2 automatic transmissions (different trucks) from GM so that's my highest concern. I've never had to replace or rebuild an engine (yet! ). and a nice thing with GM over ford... they have awesome AC!



At least Ford didn't need a bail out like Government Motors.


----------



## OneFineAcre

OneFineAcre said:


> At least Ford didn't need a bail out like Government Motors.


----------



## OneFineAcre

And I've got a 99 F150, 208 K miles, all original with cold AC.


----------



## Latestarter

OneFineAcre said:


> At least Ford didn't need a bail out like Government Motors.



Ut-oh.... hurt someone's feelings...  Wasn't commenting on GM's finances or accounting/management/business practices. Auto manufacturers aren't the only businesses that have required govt bailouts... Need I point to the banking/mortgage/investment system over the past 10-15 years or so? Wasn't trying to start a "war" here... there was a time when I'm sure you can recall what "Ford" was an acronym for... Fix Or Repair Daily...  

And as I said, _they're all pretty much equal today - quality wise_ and have been for the past 10 years or so. My sister has an early 2000's version F150 that's approaching 300K miles, and may be well over that by now. She loves it. Good! Happy for both of you   I happen to like the GM trucks. Good for me   Most of it for me is appearance and I don't/didn't like the short, "tear drop" shaped nose on the Fords. I don't like the Ram power train reliability (bad experiences with their automatic transmissions). I've owned 3 Ford Aerostars and every one of them, the AC died at substantial cost to repair. I've never yet had to repair a GM AC unit in any truck (or car) I've owned (or been associated with) and all of them left me with high mileage. My present 2005 Chevy is right at 200K miles. 

Every one of the US truck (and car) manufacturers have mechanical/electrical/etc issues associated with their vehicles... EVERY one of them. That's part of how the Asian manufacturers have been able to grow so powerful here. Ford had major issues until they adopted Japanese "quality" methods to drag them from the brink of bankruptcy, long before the govt bailouts of the other auto manufacturers. It's why they "earned" the above acronym. Now virtually all major US businesses use some form or manner of TQM/TQL. They finally got it through their heads that quality sells.

I can't afford to pay more for my truck than many pay for their homes. A new 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 truck with a powerful engine and upgraded transmission (like what I want) as well as the other accessories I want with it, is well over 60K (just priced a 2017 GMC @ ~65K and that's not for their Denali)   Personally, I don't know how they stay in business... Some one must have those kinds of $$ to throw around. I'll have to settle for someone else's throwaway and buy used. I have found several 2010-2011 with what I want for less than 30K. Maybe get 10K in trade for my present truck and it's within reach. Time will tell. not my highest priority.


----------



## Baymule

All things in their own good time.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> I've been looking at nothing less than about 35 Horse Power... From what I've been reading the general consensus is the tractor should be 1.5-2HP per acre being worked. It's not really the HP that limits the weight you can lift... it's the weight of the tractor itself... It has to be heavy enough to stay on the ground when you lift weight on the other side of the fulcrum point. Of course the hydraulic pressure has to be sufficient and metal strength of the lifting arms as well. Also, the weight differs if you measure it in the bucket or at the lynch pin. Anyway, out here in CO they have the round bales and they also have 2500+ pound square bales. I'm looking at tractors with 3000+ pound lifting capability. I also want the higher HP for the PTO(s) (would like rear & side PTO's but having that side one costs). Been looking at the package deals for new ones and it seems the limiting factor is the back hoe... If you get a back hoe, you get none of the other attachments, or you get 4-5 other attachments and no back hoe. With that stream on the property, I really want/need the back hoe for bridge building. It will also come in handy for some of the other stuff I want to do. Right now, the "included" implements I know I'd use almost immediately are the brush hog, box blade & post hole digger
> 
> Awww who am I kidding... I just "want it all!"  I also have to consider weight as my present truck is really only rated to 500# tongue weight and 5000# trailer load. I know I can pull more than that for short/reasonable distances, and there's a built in safety margin so I could probably go to 6500-7000# before I'd be pushing it, really taking chances. Most of the tractors I've been considering weigh in at ~4000-4500 pounds with bucket and back hoe. Add another 1000 for trailer, and I should be fine pulling it.
> 
> I've been thinking about trading this truck (2005 K1500 extd cab) in on a newer 2012+ K2500HD extd cab diesel. But wow... 20-30K for a new(er) truck and another 20-30K for tractor and attachments... I also need a trailer to pull it all on. Most of the package deals include a 20-22 foot trailer, but they are vehicle width trailers, meaning I couldn't carry a car or truck on it... too narrow. If I'm going to get a trailer, it needs to be multi functional/capable. It needs to be wide enough that If I want to pull a full sized pickup truck on it, I'll be able to. So add some more "cost" to the purchase.
> 
> That's gonna seriously deplete my "hoping to have" bank account... I also have to pay attention to monthly costs as that's the predominant reason I'm moving... to lower my monthly cost of living. I find it very easy to spend way more than I take in...   I also have a number of capitol improvements planned for the house and property... as well as new appliances to buy. Some of that stuff is highest priority and can't wait or be put off. They all need funding too.  Dreams can be very expensive...
> 
> Babs, sounds like you need a new bigger tractor; add to your collection... Kinda like goat sizes... Maybe a new infliction is developing? Tractor math!!


A weight distribution hitch doubles the tongue capacity and towing weight on a 1500 
I wouldn't buy a new truck for the few times you would pull the tractor and trailer


----------



## babsbag

I bought a new to me Tundra. 2010 4x4 extended cab with 36,000 miles. I love it. My old 2001 Tundra with 240,000 miles was just getting tired but she still runs. Never a day of problems with the old one, hoping the new one does as well. I am a Toyota girl through and through. The interiors hold up amazingly well and they just work.  10,000 lbs towing capacity and the only thing I own close to that is DH's fire truck. 

FORD...Found on Roadside Dead...owned one, never again; but a lot of people swear by them, I'm just not one of them.


----------



## NH homesteader

Yes love Toyota! So darn expensive though.  We had a Ford Ranger once and it was probably the most awful vehicle we ever owned.  It was so not even safe to drive in the snow. We just have little goats and we have friends with big trucks to ask favors of if we ever need anything  moved.  So no big (expensive)  trucks in the near future.  I'm on the hunt for an old K5 Blazer myself...


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Ut-oh.... hurt someone's feelings...  Wasn't commenting on GM's finances or accounting/management/business practices. Auto manufacturers aren't the only businesses that have required govt bailouts... Need I point to the banking/mortgage/investment system over the past 10-15 years or so? Wasn't trying to start a "war" here... there was a time when I'm sure you can recall what "Ford" was an acronym for... Fix Or Repair Daily...
> 
> And as I said, _they're all pretty much equal today - quality wise_ and have been for the past 10 years or so. My sister has an early 2000's version F150 that's approaching 300K miles, and may be well over that by now. She loves it. Good! Happy for both of you   I happen to like the GM trucks. Good for me   Most of it for me is appearance and I don't/didn't like the short, "tear drop" shaped nose on the Fords. I don't like the Ram power train reliability (bad experiences with their automatic transmissions). I've owned 3 Ford Aerostars and every one of them, the AC died at substantial cost to repair. I've never yet had to repair a GM AC unit in any truck (or car) I've owned (or been associated with) and all of them left me with high mileage. My present 2005 Chevy is right at 200K miles.
> 
> Every one of the US truck (and car) manufacturers have mechanical/electrical/etc issues associated with their vehicles... EVERY one of them. That's part of how the Asian manufacturers have been able to grow so powerful here. Ford had major issues until they adopted Japanese "quality" methods to drag them from the brink of bankruptcy, long before the govt bailouts of the other auto manufacturers. It's why they "earned" the above acronym. Now virtually all major US businesses use some form or manner of TQM/TQL. They finally got it through their heads that quality sells.
> 
> I can't afford to pay more for my truck than many pay for their homes. A new 3/4 ton diesel 4x4 truck with a powerful engine and upgraded transmission (like what I want) as well as the other accessories I want with it, is well over 60K (just priced a 2017 GMC @ ~65K and that's not for their Denali)   Personally, I don't know how they stay in business... Some one must have those kinds of $$ to throw around. I'll have to settle for someone else's throwaway and buy used. I have found several 2010-2011 with what I want for less than 30K. Maybe get 10K in trade for my present truck and it's within reach. Time will tell. not my highest priority.


I can't begin to reply to this on my
phone


----------



## Latestarter

OK, got curious and went and checked... the tow rating is actually 8400 pounds. more than adequate. So I can put a new truck on hold a while longer. Which is good as I recently spent almost 3 grand on this one for emissions and general repair/upkeep. Who knew dual catalytic converters would be so much? Tires for this one are about a grand for a set of 4...


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I can say from experience that the frustration of having that significant other and still doing it alone is a lot more frustrating than doing it by ourselves in the first place. Only I get the dirty laundry and dirty dishes. *I get help on occasion and I can get it if I beg but usually with an attitude attached so most of the time I just go it alone.* They are gone most of the week anyways so it works...barely. But I did convince them to help me build a dairy...



That part sounds like you are talking about my kidults. The stinkeye I get when I ask a 21 Y/O to do dishes.



Latestarter said:


> I've been looking at nothing less than about 35 Horse Power... From what I've been reading the general consensus is the tractor should be 1.5-2HP per acre being worked. It's not really the HP that limits the weight you can lift... it's the weight of the tractor itself... It has to be heavy enough to stay on the ground when you lift weight on the other side of the fulcrum point. Of course the hydraulic pressure has to be sufficient and metal strength of the lifting arms as well. Also, the weight differs if you measure it in the bucket or at the lynch pin. Anyway, out here in CO they have the round bales and they also have 2500+ pound square bales. I'm looking at tractors with 3000+ pound lifting capability. I also want the higher HP for the PTO(s) (would like rear & side PTO's but having that side one costs). Been looking at the package deals for new ones and it seems the limiting factor is the back hoe... If you get a back hoe, you get none of the other attachments, or you get 4-5 other attachments and no back hoe. With that stream on the property, I really want/need the back hoe for bridge building. It will also come in handy for some of the other stuff I want to do. Right now, the "included" implements I know I'd use almost immediately are the brush hog, box blade & post hole digger
> 
> Awww who am I kidding... I just "want it all!"  I also have to consider weight as my present truck is really only rated to 500# tongue weight and 5000# trailer load. I know I can pull more than that for short/reasonable distances, and there's a built in safety margin so I could probably go to 6500-7000# before I'd be pushing it, really taking chances. Most of the tractors I've been considering weigh in at ~4000-4500 pounds with bucket and back hoe. Add another 1000 for trailer, and I should be fine pulling it.
> 
> I've been thinking about trading this truck (2005 K1500 extd cab) in on a newer 2012+ K2500HD extd cab diesel. But wow... 20-30K for a new(er) truck and another 20-30K for tractor and attachments... I also need a trailer to pull it all on. Most of the package deals include a 20-22 foot trailer, but they are vehicle width trailers, meaning I couldn't carry a car or truck on it... too narrow. If I'm going to get a trailer, it needs to be multi functional/capable. It needs to be wide enough that If I want to pull a full sized pickup truck on it, I'll be able to. So add some more "cost" to the purchase.
> 
> That's gonna seriously deplete my "hoping to have" bank account... I also have to pay attention to monthly costs as that's the predominant reason I'm moving... to lower my monthly cost of living. I find it very easy to spend way more than I take in...   I also have a number of capitol improvements planned for the house and property... as well as new appliances to buy. Some of that stuff is highest priority and can't wait or be put off. They all need funding too.  Dreams can be very expensive...
> 
> Babs, sounds like you need a new bigger tractor; add to your collection... Kinda like goat sizes... Maybe a new infliction is developing? Tractor math!!



Do they sell Mahindra out in TX? I was looking at a 35 HP 1500 series about a year ago, then the stock market bombed. Couldn't afford to pay "double" for the tractor and still waiting for recovery. The sales guy has an older Deere, likes it just fine. Said he wouldn't buy one now, quality has gone downhill. 

About that towing and trailer. How often will you be towing this tractor and why? I think lots of dealers will pick up and deliver for a price. Might be a lot less than the cost of the trailer and new (to you) truck even over a many year period. 

And yep on the backhoe vs a bunch of other attachments. Those babies are expensive.


----------



## NH homesteader

My step-dad has a Mahindra. He loves it. Of course...  He's not working it like the rest of us would!


----------



## Latestarter

Mahindra is supposedly/self proclaimedly the world's #1 selling tractor... I have looked at them. They are available in TX, yes. When the time comes, I'll look at everything available new and used and go with whatever is the best deal to meet my needs.


----------



## Mike CHS

We got our Kubota 3 years ago as a package and just got the tractor, cutter and box blade.  My Tacoma isn't big enough to pull the tractor any distance and if I have to take it to the shop I can get it taken in.  As it is we have a tractor mechanic that comes to us if need be.  I declined the tiller since my rocky soil would have destroyed it.  

My stock trailer is light enough to be pulled by a car if need be and we are only hauling sheep and not beef.  We asked a neighbor who raises cows if he new anyone who wanted to share a beef and the next thing we knew we were half owners in a 750 pound Angus steer.


----------



## Bruce

Front or back half Mike?


----------



## Latestarter

I was going to ask top or bottom...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

You guys....!


----------



## Mini Horses

Rotten    ya'll are just rotten


----------



## babsbag

Mike CHS said:


> We asked a neighbor who raises cows if he new anyone who wanted to share a beef and the next thing we knew we were half owners in a 750 pound Angus steer.



I don't care who takes top, bottom, front, or back because I would just take the BEST half.


----------



## Mike CHS

For the price I'll take whatever winds up in our freezer.


----------



## Mini Horses

Mike CHS said:


> For the price I'll take whatever winds up in our freezer.


 YES !!   Homegrown beef is sooo good.


----------



## misfitmorgan

DH jokes all the time that we can split a cow....the other person gets the neck/head, legs from knees down, tail, hide, guts, and soup bones 

We were just talking about getting a foreign truck Tuesday....have to look into toyota. We owned a ford f150...i used to be a Ford girl until it got stuck..on a slight incline on wet grass. We have a chevy trailblazer now which never gets stuck but everything keeps breaking like major parts and its only 10yrs old this year 172k miles, the tiny saturn i traded in for this car was a 1998 and had 305k miles with less problems. So yeah we were talking non ford/chevy/gmc/ram


----------



## AClark

@Latestarter - now what's wrong with an old tractor? Lol my parents have a 1938 Ford tractor, little thing, I learned to drive on that about as soon as I weighed enough to push the clutch in. We're Ford folks, they have a 1969 3/4 ton 4x4 that I started driving on when I had a permit, no hydraulic anything, the clutch is super hard to push in, and no power steering. It looks like a use Ford lot at my parents, they have the 1969 3/4 ton F100, 1980 F150 (mine) 1990 F150, 1993 F250, and when I come to visit, my F350. The tractor and all of those trucks runs, my 1980 has a blown head gasket due to owner lack of intelligence (drove it on a split radiator hose and let it over heat) but that's why I have it, they gave it to me for free. 
The 1999-2003 F250 turbo diesel has the same motor as the F350. There are definitely some big perks to having a dually. If you blow a trailer tire with a lot of weight and at high speed, it generally won't whip that heavy and big of a truck, and more than likely won't roll the truck if the trailer gets crazy. Yes, buying 6 new tires can suck, but I just did last year and it was $1050 for all 6 mounted and balanced - with a 55,000 mile warranty on the tires. My husbands 2009 Dodge 1500 is on 35's (has a lift and 20 inch rims with mud tires) and his 4 cost more than my 6. The biggest benefit is if I blow a rear tire, I can keep driving without ruining a rim, and I don't carry a spare because if I blow a front, I can yank one off the rear for the front.

My AC is ICY cold. The only problem I've ever had with it is the low pressure sensor has come apart twice, but it's a $30 part and 5 minutes of installation time, you can literally do it without tools. I only paid for it once since it busted under warranty the last time - but it was an aftermarket part. My AC runs colder than the newer Dodge does by a lot, even when it's close to 110 I have to turn it down because it gets freezing in there.

I had a 2004 GMC prior to this, it had 140k and I could hear a lifter knocking when I started it, and I'll be real honest, it was pretty gutless for a 1/2 ton. It would scream going up hills with a light trailer on it, less than 5000 lbs. It was one of those 5.3L Vortec's, the flex fuel ones - yuck. I loved how the GMC rode, it was silky smooth but the pulling power left a lot to be desired. The water pump went out on it to the tune of $800 from the shop right after I told my ex husband to keep it, since he threw a giant fit during our divorce over that truck. He's had nothing but problems with it since. I feel like I dodged 2 bullets with that!  

A huge thought on this, but diesels are a lot more expensive to maintain than a gas motor. First off, oil changes cost a lot more. No kidding at all, mine takes 15 Quarts of oil to do a change. That's about $70 for a 5 gallon bucket of 15w40. If you don't do it yourself, it's $100 or more to have someone else do it. The parts, if and when they go, are super expensive too. Also, mine takes 2 batteries to start it, and you can't use just a cheap regular battery, they need 850+ CCA, and the starter takes 18v to crank it over. You end up replacing both batteries (can't do 1 at a time because if one is weak it drags the other down since they are in series) and that gets expensive fast because batteries used in a diesel generally are only good for about 2 years. You also need to change the fuel filter about every 15k miles - which is easy, but messy. Also, God forbid if you run out of fuel, it's not like a gas truck that you can put some in and it will start, you have to sit and prime it.


----------



## Bruce

How are you getting 18V out of two 12V batteries?


----------



## greybeard

> Also, mine takes 2 batteries to start it, and you can't use just a cheap regular battery, they need 850+ CCA, and the starter takes 18v to crank it over.


No, the diesel engine starter requires only 12volts, as the 2 batteries are wired in parallel with each other--not in series. --unless you have a very old BIG truck (as in Peterbilt-Kennworth etc) or a military surplus truck.


----------



## babsbag

misfitmorgan said:


> We were just talking about getting a foreign truck Tuesday....have to look into toyota.



The new ones are $$$$$...$$$$  But I wanted a truck with a higher towing capacity than my '01 Tundra so I started looking for a 2007 or newer with less than 100,000 miles. I would find them and they would be sold before I could get to them; and I was willing to drive 6 hours to get one and still couldn't make it work. I found this one at the local Toyota dealer. With only 36,000 miles it may be the last truck I ever own. 

I have owned 7 different Toyotas over the years of various models. My boys and DIL also own Toys. Guess it isn't hard to figure out my preferences. I have also owned Ford, Chevy, VW, Datusn, and Honda but the Toys have been better body and under the hood hands down.


----------



## Devonviolet

Hey Joe, (I guess cat's out of the bag on your name)  

I don't know diddly about trucks & tractors. So, I'm going on to a different topic.

I know you want to build a nice pond where the natural streams converge. My dream has always (at least since I dreamed of having land for homesteading) been to have a farm pond, stocked with fish, that I could fish for food and swim in. We have had to put that dream on hold, due to DH recovering from his heat stroke and needing to watch our spending.

I told you I would give you the link for Darrell - the guy who has the newsletter with good info about pond building.

When I went to do that I thought I might as well include some of the other info I have found online.

http://www.whatpond.com/free-education/
This is Darrell's site.
****
www.aces.edu › ANR-1114 › ANR-1114. -  pdf download
*****
http://www.aquahabitat.com/techfaqs.html - gives costs for building a pond & more
*****
www.nrcs.usda.gov › FSE_DOCUMENTS - pdf download
General info on building a pond
*****
http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/build-a-pond-zmaz06amzwar.aspx
*****
http://modernfarmer.com/2015/07/how-to-make-a-pond/
*****
https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/420/420-011/420-011.html#
Pond Construction
*****
http://www.pondboss.com/free_articles.asp
Lots of free articles on pond building
*****


----------



## AClark

18V is the draw, off of it, it won't crank or has a super slow crank if 1 battery is below 12v - and there is no starting it if a battery is any part of low and it's cold out unless it's been on the block heater. If it cranks slow, you're lucky if it actually starts, it doesn't usually build up enough pressure to function the injectors if it's not cranking like a bat out of h3ll. Ok so I mean the draw during starting, not the starter, as it's running glow plugs which are power hogs at the same time. You're right, and I was foggy and half thinking this morning. Thanks for pointing that out.  My point was, battery #2 isn't for show, you actually need 2 batteries in good shape and can't get away with one of them being replaced since it will ruin the one that was still good. Which usually means dropping $200+ on batteries if one is shot, unless you have it under warranty and enjoy returning to Autozone for them to test and replace it about every 6 months. I've been through 6 batteries in 2 years, all of them under warranty with an early death. The injectors run on the oil pressure - no or low oil pressure, no start condition. Blow the guts out of the HPOP and it's completely dead and pouring about a gallon of oil into the valley - I was on the freeway when mine went in rush hour traffic and it kills the entire motor, no power anything. I understand the newer powerstrokes are better in that regard by a lot and have a lot less cold start conditions. I'm still playing "why do I have to keep this on a block heater when it's under 60 out" GPR is good, glow plugs are all functional with correct Ohm reading, my ICP is bad and has oil in it - got a new one, still have to put it on. Maybe by this winter I'll have it so I don't have to plug it in at night.

My husband had a 2007 Tundra and that was a great truck, he used to haul a 28ft camper with it. I like both of our old and new 1500 Dodge's but I will say Dodge needs some help when it comes to electrical wiring. We haven't had a lot of problems with the 2009, a couple of actuators and a small short, but the 84 is riddled with electrical issues, mostly stemming from fusible links, including one that failed and fried some wiring. The 84 was a farm truck and I used to haul horses and hay with it quite a bit. I did kill the transmission in it about 10 years ago, but it was less than $1000 to replace it.

My parents keep the 1969 Ford and the 1993 F250 strictly for hauling stuff - they're farm trucks. Maybe, unless you plan on hauling over long distances where you can't afford a problem every now and then, an older truck to be used only for hauling is a better investment than a new driver/hauler.


----------



## Mike CHS

babsbag said:


> The new ones are $$$$$...$$$$  But I wanted a truck with a higher towing capacity than my '01 Tundra so I started looking for a 2007 or newer with less than 100,000 miles. I would find them and they would be sold before I could get to them; and I was willing to drive 6 hours to get one and still couldn't make it work. I found this one at the local Toyota dealer. With only 36,000 miles it may be the last truck I ever own.
> 
> I have owned 7 different Toyotas over the years of various models. My boys and DIL also own Toys. Guess it isn't hard to figure out my preferences. I have also owned Ford, Chevy, VW, Datusn, and Honda but the Toys have been better body and under the hood hands down.



I haven't had very many vehicles in my lifetime because I keep them until they start costing money.    I bought my first Tacoma in 1998 and would still be driving it if it had not wound up with salt water after Hurricane Ivan visited us in Pensacola.  I have been driving my second Tacoma since them and it just went past 265k miles.  It doesn't have the weight or power though to be a good towing vehicle.


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## babsbag

Our first Toy was a 4wd Tercel station wagon. Brought my first son home from the hospital in it and he learned to drive in it. Next was a truck that the kids outgrew so then a 4-runner. We needed a truck though so bought a 1986 1 ton Toy long bed but it couldn't tow the 5th wheel RV so we finally bought the Tundra.  I have had it for 15 years but I just wanted the extra 3000 lb towing capacity for the tractor and hay so did the upgrade. Somewhere along the line I sold the 4-Runner when no more kids were at home and bought a VW convertible bug,(big mistake) then I moved to the country and a bumpy dirt road, the bug had to go and I bought a Rav4.  I hang onto my vehicles for a long time too unless I hate them.


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## Latestarter

<deep sigh> So I dealt with idiocy with Navy Federal Credit Union when I bought this place. I had to explain how things work to the loan counselor. I stayed with them then because they don't sell the loans, and service them themselves. I liked that aspect. So now I'm going through the same crap with them again. Everything was exceptional until I changed properties. Since then it's been one issue after another. I just finished Emailing specific information about property taxes since they estimated my taxes were going to be over 4 grand a year and that's simply not the case. Worst case they'll be ~ 2700.00 Using off the wall numbers they're showing me with debt to incomes of anywhere from 46% to 66%  I have worst case at ~36%. I actually called Titus county and spoke to their appraisal office to determine the exact tax rate and break down and what that would mean to me once I buy the place. Right now I'll be responsible for the remainder of the present owner's taxes through 2016, which works out to ~$65/month. THAT is the # they should be using. Worst case in 2017, they'll be ~$229/mo, which I'm not happy with, but can't do anything about it till 2017...

I swear they are doing everything in their power to NOT do this loan.

I'm really starting to think "storage unit" and become a vagabond for a few years.


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## AClark

I use NFCU and USAA. I'm not nearly as fond of NFCU banking, but have no issue with the auto loan (probably because I put it on auto pay and forgot about it). What I usually find works the best when dealing with them is saying simply "I work with USAA also, I can just bring this to them and I imagine I won't have this problem anymore" - which usually is instant resolution considering they dont' want to lose all that money to a competing bank. With NFCU, I've always found going down to the bank in person fully prepared has worked better than any of their services over the phone. 
Of course, USAA works best when you've been a customer for over 15 years too. I've had some issues with USAA but they are right on it to fix them. They failed to report my auto insurance to Arizona for months, and I only find out that my plates are suspended for no mandatory insurance when I couldn't renew them. I had been driving on suspending plates for 18 months! But, called USAA and told them how they goofed and within 24 hours had an apology and no penalties from AZ for no insurance (the penalties were $800, on $100 registration).


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## babsbag

You gotta love them. I went through the same crap with my lender during a refi. I kept thinking that if I am going to do their job and my job I want their paycheck.   I kept showing them the requirements and such. Finally found another lender...


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## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> I'm really starting to think "storage unit" and become a vagabond for a few years.



Don't give up yet, but then on the other hand I do know someone that is building a dairy...


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> <deep sigh> Everything was exceptional until I changed properties. Since then it's been one issue after another. I just finished Emailing specific information about property taxes since they estimated my taxes were going to be over 4 grand a year and that's simply not the case. Worst case they'll be ~ 2700.00 Using off the wall numbers they're showing me with debt to incomes of anywhere from 46% to 66%  I have worst case at ~36%. I actually called Titus county and spoke to their appraisal office to determine the exact tax rate and break down and what that would mean to me once I buy the place. Right now I'll be responsible for the remainder of the present owner's taxes through 2016, which works out to ~$65/month. THAT is the # they should be using. Worst case in 2017, they'll be ~$229/mo, which I'm not happy with, but can't do anything about it till 2017...


I forget now how much acreage you are purchasing. State of Texas says 10+ acres qualifies for Ag exemption on property taxes but the individual counties can increase that minimum. My county says you need 20 acres minimum. If the property is currently on Ag, you need to file for a continuation of that exemption immediately upon closing on the property. Some hobby farms, regardless of acres, will not qualify--you MUST present a plan to actually produce and derive income from the property within 5 years.
You can of course, also file for homestead exemption. You can claim the entire property as homestead, if you can show you are actually using all of it for your domicile and yard, but the Ag exemption is actually a better deal, so the more real estate you claim for homestead, the less you have available for ag--you can't get both exemptions for 100% of your property. Homestead your house footprint and yard--Ag everything else. 
FWIW, my property taxes for ~60 acres is around $2000/yr. House built 2009. 1 ac homestead-the rest on Ag exemption. Yours will likely be different considering it's a different county. 
You can contest property tax assessment and appraisal each year--I believe between Jan 30-July 1.  (I'd have to look to be sure)

Do you qualify for Texas Veteran Land Board?


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## Latestarter

Thanks @greybeard Right now it's broken into 2 parcels. 1 acre with house and 17.991 acres AG exempt. AG exempt does not carry over and can't be swapped into my name (I asked). I'll get the present tax structure till the end of this year. After Jan 1st till some time in April I have to go back to the county and submit application for AG exempt for me. The parcels are already set up and assigned numbers, so that part is relatively simple. Of course the new values will be establish based on my purchase price but right now tax on the house is $753/yr and on the land $37/year. If I go 100% residential w/homestead, my tax will be ~$2700/yr. NFCU will not lend on agricultural land/farms. I've explained that come January it will all revert to residential which is what I'm buying it for. And I have no control over the way the present owner has it set up. I'm not buying a farm. I'm buying my next home and it has acreage. I WILL be getting some animals for it but that doesn't necessarily make my purchase a farm, and is not a question on the loan application. It may become one down the road, who knows. Tax assessment will be hard to contest as they will be basing it off my purchase price. I'm just not sure how they'll break it up as far as what percentage of the purchase price is the house and 1 acre and how much is the remainder. Guess they'll look at/comp land/home prices. I'm guessing this home on 1 acre would be in the 80K range. The land would be in the 80-90K range. And I have no idea what the AG tax rate is. I'm not a TX vet, so can't use the land board. Wish I were/could. Maybe I'll check into that again tomorrow and see if anything has changed from years ago.

Thanks @AClark I've already escalated this and am working with a team lead vice a LO right now. He's about as useless as the rest I've had to deal with. I've already blasted him in writing and verbally on the phone, and asked for HIS supervisors contact information. I stated I get the impression that they really don't want this loan. I told them if this is the case, let's get that out front right now so I can go elsewhere. I told him I'm tired of hearing what can't be done and they'd better get on the right track of stating what CAN be done. They aren't even thinking or using their heads. They're not TRYING to make the/a loan work. I mean I had to tell him to see what happens with a larger down payment... I mean the funds will be there. Jeeeeze. So today he asked me if I had a contract on my present place, I said yes and that it's closing in less than a month. Then he asked me to email a copy to him. It's gonna show me clearing over 110K if the appraisal comes in. I'm right now trying for the loan with 45K down. I can put more down if I have to. This isn't brain surgery... though I may need some before this is over... Anyone know a good brain surgeon?

It's 50 degrees right now and there's humidity as we finally got a little rain here right as the sun was going down. I have the fan blowing in the bedroom window and really hope I can de-stress and get some sleep tonight. It feels pretty cool in there 

I am a USAA member as well. I have my auto insurance through them. I sent NFCU 2 months bank statements from them as asset docs. Wonder if it will dawn on them that the fact that I'm a USAA member means I can just as easily take this loan to them? As dumb as they've acted to this point, I doubt it... I'm actually kind of surprised at how much this constant stress and battle is taking out of me.


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## Kusanar

dumb question, but, if you are selling your place for more than you are buying another for, why do you need a loan?


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> The new ones are $$$$$...$$$$  But I wanted a truck with a higher towing capacity than my '01 Tundra so I started looking for a 2007 or newer with less than 100,000 miles. I would find them and they would be sold before I could get to them; and I was willing to drive 6 hours to get one and still couldn't make it work. I found this one at the local Toyota dealer. With only 36,000 miles it may be the last truck I ever own.
> 
> I have owned 7 different Toyotas over the years of various models. My boys and DIL also own Toys. Guess it isn't hard to figure out my preferences. I have also owned Ford, Chevy, VW, Datusn, and Honda but the Toys have been better body and under the hood hands down.



I found a 2014 Tundra for 29k Crew Max version with 68,000 miles...or a double cab 2014 for 25k with 41,000 miles.....hmm


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## misfitmorgan

Kusanar said:


> dumb question, but, if you are selling your place for more than you are buying another for, why do you need a loan?



As far as i recall he hasnt owned his current house for long enough to pay it all off so i would asume a portion of the sale has to go to pay off his current home which makes him not have enough cash to buy the new house....or not enough to buy other things he wants/needs for the new property.

@Latestarter 
Definitely go Ag and see about getting the 1acre parcel combined with the 18 whatever acre one. I wonder what they did with the rest of the acres...should have been 20acres.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Thanks @greybeard Right now it's broken into 2 parcels. 1 acre with house and 17.991 acres AG exempt. AG exempt does not carry over and can't be swapped into my name (I asked). I'll get the present tax structure till the end of this year. After Jan 1st till some time in April I have to go back to the county and submit application for AG exempt for me. The parcels are already set up and assigned numbers, so that part is relatively simple. Of course the new values will be establish based on my purchase price but right now tax on the house is $753/yr and on the land $37/year. If I go 100% residential w/homestead, my tax will be ~$2700/yr. NFCU will not lend on agricultural land/farms. I've explained that come January it will all revert to residential which is what I'm buying it for. And I have no control over the way the present owner has it set up. I'm not buying a farm. I'm buying my next home and it has acreage. I WILL be getting some animals for it but that doesn't necessarily make my purchase a farm, and is not a question on the loan application. It may become one down the road, who knows. Tax assessment will be hard to contest as they will be basing it off my purchase price. I'm just not sure how they'll break it up as far as what percentage of the purchase price is the house and 1 acre and how much is the remainder. Guess they'll look at/comp land/home prices. I'm guessing this home on 1 acre would be in the 80K range. The land would be in the 80-90K range. And I have no idea what the AG tax rate is. I'm not a TX vet, so can't use the land board. Wish I were/could. Maybe I'll check into that again tomorrow and see if anything has changed from years ago.


A couple of things doesn't sound right, compared to my county and my appraisal district. By law the tax has to be assessed according to the county's appraisal, based on current market value. True, that your purchase price will have a big influence on that, but they also have to take in to account surrounding property values. 

Also have ?? about not being able to go ag immediately. I bought 17 acres in 2008 or 2009, and went down and filed for ag on it immediately. At first, was told it didn't meet the 20 acre minimum this county had set, but explained to the appraisal district manager himself there was nothing but a barbed wire fence separating it from 41 acres that was mine and already on ag--the 17 acres had been on ag as well, as part of another 41 acre tract, and my cows were already running on that 17 acres under a lease agreement I had on file with the AD. He agreed that it was indeed producing an ag product and the 17 acres qualified to continue on ag. You may have to go higher up the chain of command at the appraisal district--IF, you want the exemption. You do know, that hay production alone qualifies for ag exemption?? Just sell the forage off it if you can find someone to cut & bale it.

Kusanar:
There are 'some' advantages to having a loan/mortgage. You will pay more for the property over the course of the loan, but you're using someone else's $$ up front. There are also some tax advantages, if one's total income is enough they can make use of the tax law. I deal only in cash myself, but have sometimes wished I had not when I actually pencil it out. Keep in mind too, that property sale profits are capital gain--just because it looks like revenue from land sold exceeds what the new property costs, a big chunk of that sale profit is going to get gobbled up by Uncle Sam and CG has to be paid the same tax year in which  the property was sold--there are exceptions to that tho.


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## Bruce

I don't think there should be any capital gains tax since LS is selling his primary residence.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I don't think there should be any capital gains tax since LS is selling his primary residence.


Ah yes, you are correct. Been so long since I sold a residence I had forgotten that.


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## Kusanar

greybeard said:


> Kusanar:
> There are 'some' advantages to having a loan/mortgage. You will pay more for the property over the course of the loan, but you're using someone else's $$ up front. There are also some tax advantages, if one's total income is enough they can make use of the tax law. I deal only in cash myself, but have sometimes wished I had not when I actually pencil it out. Keep in mind too, that property sale profits are capital gain--just because it looks like revenue from land sold exceeds what the new property costs, a big chunk of that sale profit is going to get gobbled up by Uncle Sam and CG has to be paid the same tax year in which  the property was sold--there are exceptions to that tho.



Ahh, ok, I would have paid cash for my place if I had had it... but, realistically, how many 25-26 year olds have roughly 50K laying around? I put 10 grand down on it, and have a 15 year loan for the rest, paying almost twice the bill each month to shorten it further. I'm hoping to get it paid off sometime between 5-10 years rather than 15. I don't know how people can do a 30 year loan... I don't want to be in my 50-60's before I actually own it...


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## Latestarter

Yes, the issue is; I financed 162K when I bought this place, I wasn't able to pay it all off in the almost 3 years I've lived here (Gee, wonder why not?) Most folks (I) don't have an extra 50K each year they can throw at their mortgage... Anyway, I DID pay extra principal every month the first 2 years (before quitting my job and retiring), but still owe ~ 147K that needs to be paid from the proceeds. Now there are places down there for less than 100K, in which case (if this place appraises out) I could pay cash. However, most of them don't meet my needs/desires, & I don't have the time presently to find one that does. I'm sure given long enough, I might be able to, but there's no/never a guarantee.

Most people, me included, would LOVE to own their place in 5-10 years, or sooner if they could, however, for most it's simply out of reach. Especially for someone like me who is older, retired, and on a fixed income. I need the lowest possible monthly payment I can get, and then I can apply extra principal as I'm able. Another thing to consider is how long you intend to live there. Most folks move every 3-5 years. And most folks don't have the funds to pay cash for their home. The tax benefits of financing for those who are working/unable to pay cash, are helpful/advantageous(? not really!) to most.  

Even now, it still makes more sense (if you CAN) to pay the income taxes on the money you're paying the banker in interest (schedule "A" mortgage interest write off) than to pay that full amount to the banker. If you write off $12,000 in mortgage interest (paid to a banker) and are in a 22% tax bracket, writing that off saves you $2,640.00 in federal taxes and a small amount in additional state taxes (based on federal taxable income). But it COST you the $12K you paid to the banker to get those "savings". Would you rather pay uncle same the 2640, or pay the banker 12K? But again, if you don't have the dough to pay cash, and most don't, the write off still helps tax wise. In my case, since I'm retired and have limited income, the mortgage interest I pay will not be sufficient to move me into a schedule "A" filing category, so I'll see no tax savings at all. For me it makes the most sense to pay that loan off as fast as I can.

I was told or as I understand, they do the county appraisals once per year. I'm guessing like most counties, if a property sells (2016), the appraised value will initially be placed at that (for 2017) until the next county appraisal happens (2017 for 2018), at which time it will adjust one way or the other. In the mean time, the property tax will stay where it's set (from 2015) for the remainder of this year (2016 due in 2017) so I won't have to worry about the huge increase till they start the process again next year (2017 for 2018).  I wasn't aware that there was a minimum acreage required for ag... Makes sense. I'm glad it's under AG right now as that should (I hope) make it easier/feasible to keep it under ag going forward. Of course the value will still increase. I will of course head down to the county ASAP after I own the place to make sure nothing slips through the cracks. I also have to apply for that ag exemption card to eliminate sales taxes on "farm" purchases. If/when I buy the barn and the tractor and fencing, etc, I don't need an additional 9% tacked on top for taxes.

As far as I know/recall there are no fed taxes on sale of a personal residence _as long as the proceeds are applied to the purchase of another personal residence *of equal or greater value*._ That's the kicker... Since I am replacing my residence with one of lesser value, the difference will be taxable unless I use the one time exclusion to not pay that tax (Thanks uncle sam ). So in actuality, there are "capitol gains" taxes on the sale of a personal residence in some cases. Since I expect this to be my final "resting" place  HA! I'll use the exclusion on this sale and when I'm gone, the profits if any from this property will be part of my estate which will be less than the federal/state "cut off" or "trigger" before taxation starts, so the profits will pass on to my kids tax free. At least that's the plan... It's my "best laid" plan! After the zombie apocalypse happens it won't matter anyway  But this place being centered and set back does lend me nice shooting lanes Just wish it were a bit wider.


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## Baymule

@Kusanar you are exceptional for having bought a place at your young age. Good for you!  And paying double on the note is even better.  I bought my second home at 31, paying down on it with what I cleared on the first home. When we bought the place we have now, we financed it, as we hadn't put our other house on the market. When we sold it, we paid off this loan. Such juggling when it comes to buying a home! It does feel good to know there is no more house note, but there is still insurance and taxes! 

Latestarter, we got an AG exemption on our little 8 acres. We also got a senior citizen discount along with the homestead and our taxes are frozen. Even if my husband passes away, my taxes won't go up. You will qualify for AG, homestead and disabled veteran. As soon as you turn 65, you get a senior citizen discount on top of that and your taxes will be frozen at that point.


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## Mike CHS

It seems most states make it fairly easy to get the exemption.  Tennessee has a narrow window for approval and you only have to show gross earnings of $1500 a year at the end of 3 years.


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## NH homesteader

Wow this is so very confusing.  I am so glad I didn't have to deal with the majority if this.  My parents gave us land that had electric and septic on it,  and we got a loan (10 year) for a mobile home,  pad,  etc. In 6 years (if we don't pay extra,  which we usually do) we will be done paying and start saving to build something bigger. 

Kudos to you for pursuing your dream despite all this.  I really hope it gets easier for you!


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## HomeOnTheRange

@Latestarter Just finished reading the thread!  Congrats on finding a place to call Home.  I am hoping to follow in your foot steps in a couple of years as I start planning my "retirement".  Am looking forward to hearing about the move itself and then what you do with your new place (with LOTS of pictures ).

I do have to ask though, what is a BYH Greeter/Friend?


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## animalmom

Does than mean @HomeOnTheRange that you're eyeing joining the Texas group of BYHers?  Whoop Whoop and a half a dozen Well Alrights!

A BYH Greeter is someone who tried to welcome all the new folks on BYH and a BYH Friend is someone who is just that, a friend to chat with, rant with, wish with and @Latestarter does that to a "T".  We are lucky, and pleased, to have him here.  You'd be surprised at what he knows!


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## HomeOnTheRange

Yes @animalmom this Son of Texas is hoping to return home soon.  After reading through @Latestarter 's thread, I can see why he has those titles!!    Thanks for the info!


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## babsbag

@Latestarter, I think you can profit 250,000.00 on your sell and not pay taxes on it no matter what you do with the money.


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## Devonviolet

animalmom said:


> A BYH Greeter is someone who tried to welcome all the new folks on BYH and a BYH Friend is someone who is just that, a friend to chat with, rant with, wish with and @Latestarter does that to a "T". We are lucky, and pleased, to have him here. You'd be surprised at what he knows!


Yes, I agree - Latestarter fits both designations to a "T"!  And then some . . . .

Now I have a question. What is a "Golden Herd Member" and why did HomeOnTheRange get it after being a member only one day???   

Inquiring minds want to know . . . 

Not that I'm jealous or anything.  

  


Just curious . . . 
​


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## HomeOnTheRange

@Devonviolet - I paid my $20 bucks...


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## Green Acres Farm

Devonviolet said:


> Yes, I agree - Latestarter fits both designations to a "T"!  And then some . . . .
> 
> Now I have a question. What is a "Golden Herd Member" and why did HomeOnTheRange get it after being a member only one day???
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know . . .
> 
> Not that I'm jealous or anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious . . .
> ​


You can update your account. It's $12 for 6 months and $20 for one year. Not sure what the benefits are though...


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## Devonviolet

HomeOnTheRange said:


> @Devonviolet - I paid my $20 bucks...


Wellll, it shows to go ya, what money will buy ya these days!!


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## Green Acres Farm

HomeOnTheRange said:


> @Devonviolet - I paid my $20 bucks...


What are the benefits of it?


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## Latestarter

Oh man Babs... I SOOOOOOooooooo hope you're right! Either way, the exemption/exclusion if required (used to was years ago, last I recall) or no longer factored unless above $250K... I'm def down with that either way. I just don't want to lose any more of it for ANY reason!

OK, so just got off the phone with NFCU and "David"... So I now have loan pre-approval (Oh gee! Thanks! After I did all your work for you!), with the stipulation that the 3 debts I'm carrying get paid off. No problem, had intended to do that regardless. So, good to go you'd think ,right? NOPE! Not just yet... So they throw up some MORE road blocks...

I need to pay for the VA appraisal up front, no problem, SOP. But THEN he informs me that if the appraiser states that the property can be used to generate income, then it would be a farm, and they won't do the loan.  So I ask him if he's serious... I mean the back of the property is wooded and I could generate income from timber sales. There are fields... I could generate income from hay sales. I mean for Christ's good sake, it's an acreage property, it goes without saying that some income "could" be generated. The fact that I'm not buying it for that purpose (to run a business/make a profit) makes this a huge potential issue/problem! So I told him I wanted the appraiser's name and contact info so that if they blow this loan up I can get it re-issued through another lender. He told me 48 hours after they receive the appraisal I'll have a copy. I explained that typically that's provided at closing, but early suits me.

So THEN he tells me just paying off the credit debts is not sufficient... even providing written proof from the creditor is insufficient... They need to wait and verify it through the credit bureaus to accept it as fact  That could take up to a week   So they want 2 weeks between closes   Even though one of them is THEIR OWN ACCOUNT, and the proceeds from the sale will be wired into my account WITH THEM! to verify funds to close!

Then he asks if I have proof of the earnest money and proof of the option money paid to the seller to allow the property inspection. and they want a copy of the property inspection. I told him both were paid by check drawn on my NFCU account so they can verify it easy enough. Then told him I don't know why they feel they need a copy of the home inspection report as it has nothing to do with the loan. They will have an appraisal that I'm also paying for, for them. They don't need a copy of a report I'm paying for for me, and I won't provide it to them.

Then he says he needs a receipt and report from the termite inspection. I informed him that the seller pays for the termite inspection so I won't have a receipt for that, and the report would be provided to the lender of course. It's part of doing a VA loan or any other really depending on what part of the country you live in.

I openly told him that I can't for the life of me understand why they keep throwing up road blocks to doing this loan. I told him with my past experiences doing the loan for here, and what I've been dealing with trying to get this loan done, I feel as If they are just setting me up to body slam me. They just keep throwing up reasons they won't do the loan. I once more told him It's a golden loan that will NEVER go into default! I'm putting over 25% down and agreed to go even higher if necessary. My income won't stop until the nation ceases to exist or I die. It's a govt pension for God's sake. It will go away if the govt goes away. My credit is excellent. I've been with them for over 20 years, and they AREN'T SELLING THE LOAN! It's not like they have to worry a potential buyer will balk at any portion of it. They are so afraid that if they do this loan I might be able to make money from it somehow... They want it so only they can make any money from it. I just want to scream!


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## HomeOnTheRange

Green Acres Farm said:


> What are the benefits of it?


@Green Acres Farm Here are the benefits:
1) Get the Golden Herd Member Title
2) Create a Custom Title
3) Access the GHM Section
4) First Peek at new features
5) Create Forum Polls
6) Private Message Storage increased from 100 to 250 messages
7) Number of Private Message Storage Folders from 2 to 4
8) Image Storage Space increased from 10MB to 40MB.

@Latestarter - Hang in there!!


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## Latestarter

The major benefit is that you get to change your "sub title" from the standard to whatever you wish. Mine now reads "Novice; "practicing" animal husbandry" vice "true BYH addict". Luckily I didn't have to buy mine... I "earned" it.


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## NH homesteader

How does one earn it?


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## Latestarter

animalmom said:


> ...A BYH Greeter is someone who tried to welcome all the new folks on BYH and a BYH Friend is someone who is just that, a friend to chat with, rant with, wish with and @Latestarter does that to a "T".  We are lucky, and pleased, to have him here.  You'd be surprised at what he knows!



I'm more surprised at what I DON'T know! Seems I know less and less the older I get. Just 40-50 odd years ago I knew EVERY thing!


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## Latestarter

With "service" to the site. I earned it by doing all that cross referencing/reviewing of posts to move into the new pasture section.


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## Devonviolet

OMG, Joe!  What a nightmare!  They really are bending over backwards to make this process a PITA!  

It brings back very bad memories of our loan process.  The LO seemed like a nice enough guy. We had a stellar credit rating.

He promised we could close in 30 days with a really low interest rate. 

Then, one thing after another kept extending closing. We "bought" the place in October & ended up closing at the end of December with a higher interest rate than he promised. By the time we closed, I wasn't on speaking terms with him. 

_Then_, within a week of closing, we got a letter informing us they had sold our loan. HUH???  and to add insult to injury, our credit rating went from 817 to 698!  

We were told shopping loans for finding a mortgage wouldnt affect our credit rating. BET ME!!!  It sure did.  I recently checked my credit rating and it's almost up to 800 again. Grrrrrr!  What a PITA!


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## Baymule

What difference does it make if they sell the loan or not? Couldn't you just go into a bank in the local town that you are buying in and make a loan? With that much money down, a bank would be drooling over your business. So what if they sell the loan, payments remain the same unless taxes or insurance goes up.


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## Latestarter

Oh my... as a past LO, I'm sorry  Bad ones caused a lot of the major shake up in the industry 10 years ago. After the crash they passed all these new regs and laws and requirements, but you know, there are always a few who manage to survive. 

Because every time they bundle the loan and sell it to another investor, there are overlaps in coverage that could cause you to "miss"  a payment, even though you made it, and then you have late fees and credit damage. In addition they routinely screw up the escrow account causing all kinds of issues there. Just not worth it to me.


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## Bruce

Kusanar said:


> Ahh, ok, I would have paid cash for my place if I had had it... but, realistically, how many 25-26 year olds have roughly 50K laying around? I put 10 grand down on it, and have a 15 year loan for the rest, paying almost twice the bill each month to shorten it further. I'm hoping to get it paid off sometime between 5-10 years rather than 15. I don't know how people can do a 30 year loan... I don't want to be in my 50-60's before I actually own it...


Good for you!!! Not many can come up with even $10K for a down payment and a 15 year loan is out of the question. Sounds like you have been a fiscal conservative for some time. I think life runs better that way and with less stress.

Joe, aren't they painting you into a very tight corner? Won't do the loan if you can make money from the property, can't get the Ag exemption if you can't make agriculturally derived money from the property. I guess once you get the loan they won't ever look your way again as long as you pay on time. I won't tell if you don't 

I really have no idea if the Credit Union that holds our loan (actually they probably sold it but we still pay them) would care if I made money from the property. I do know that my insurance goes belly up if I make too high a percentage of my income from 'farming'. That is a HUGE joke, at the moment I am in deficit selling a few extra eggs from my hens. 

I'm not sure how I could come up with enough gross sales of anything (eggs, garden veg, maybe some alpaca fiber or "value added" products to even get the Ag exemption to not pay sales tax on ag equipment. Which is a Catch-22 in itself. How do you get the equipment needed to make the 'farm' work as a legitimate agricultural entity (wood products count) without paying the sales tax on it since you aren't a farm UNTIL you have that equipment and use it for farming purposes?? 

And as for Conservation status (called Current Use here) and slightly reduced property taxes for ag/woodlot property, VT requires your homestead and 2 acres PLUS another 25 acres of ag related land. We are about 1.5 acres shy.


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> What difference does it make if they sell the loan or not? Couldn't you just go into a bank in the local town that you are buying in and make a loan? With that much money down, a bank would be drooling over your business. So what if they sell the loan, payments remain the same unless taxes or insurance goes up.


I think it all comes down to how much they give for "service". 

Back around 2005, when all the banks were falling apart, our mortgage was sold 3 times when banks collapsed. It turned out they didnt properly transfer our escrow account & we started getting nasty notices from the county tax office, telling us we were behind on our taxes & had penalties to pay. In actuality, we were _ahead_ on our tax payments (in the escrow account). But, the new bank was told there was no escrow account, and we were responsible for paying our taxes, not them. What a nightmare!  We eventually got it squared away. But, none of that would have happened if the mortgage company hadn't sold our loan.


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## Latestarter

Maybe you can apply for a variance Bruce? They grant variances for all manner of zoning restrictions... I didn't check into the requirements before hand... I just asked how the land was presently taxed... if there was an ag exemption, I "assumed" that I'd be able to get it as well. Like I've stated, I planned, always, to get animals. I NEVER planned to have an income producing farm. That isn't the property I went looking for. I went looking for a residence with acreage. I don't intend to escrow for taxes and insurance. I'll pay those straight up myself. I hate the yearly "escrow adjustment" BS...


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## Bruce

That is why we don't have an escrow account. One less way to get screwed by incompetence. We make the loan payment the first of each month, the insurance the 3rd of each month and the property taxes when they come due.


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## Latestarter

See the thing is, I could get the animals I want on 5 acres... I didn't need the larger acreage for animals... I needed the added land for recreational purpose... I want to be able to shoot my guns and hunt on my property.


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## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> That is why we don't have an escrow account. One less way to get screwed by incompetence. We make the loan payment the first of each month, the insurance the 3rd of each month and the property taxes when they come due.


We pay every thing once a year. That way we don't pay installment fees. After the escrow account fiasco in PA, we decided to pay it ourselves.


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## Bruce

There are no variances for Current Use. Homestead and 2 acres separate from the Ag/forest land, minimum 25 acres. And the acreage has to be "contiguous". A road can split it but there can't be parcels you don't own between those that you do.

As for the Sales Tax exemption for Ag purchases, I see that July 1 the legislature loosened the requirement that the equipment be used 96% for Ag/forest to 75%. That means someone can now use their tractor to plow their parking lot whereas before they would have to use it a WHOLE LOT for Ag to make sure no more than 4% was "other".

But it is still not all clear to me, I did find something that said you have to file an IRS Form F (Ag profit and loss) with your 1040 to be able to use the exemption form. What I'm not clear about is how much money you have to make (gross? net?) to be eligible. Fortunately there is a "Breakfast on the Farm" event tomorrow morning and the current President of the Vermont Farm Bureau will be there. He and I worked in the same department at IBM until he retired to continue building his organic farm. He is one of those people who have more energy than I can imagine having myself. A 40 hour a week paid job PLUS probably at least that much in farm and greenhouse work. I  how people have that much energy!


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## babsbag

From Bankrate...
_When you sell your primary residence, you can make up to $250,000 in profit if you're a single owner, twice that if you're married, and not owe any capital gains taxes._

Read more: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/capital-gains-and-your-home-sale-1.aspx#ixzz4IThwqxtV


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## babsbag

I like my escrow account and I often get a check back from the bank at the end of the year. I refinanced our previous house probably 4 or 5 times in 23 years and never had any problems but it was a stick built house on a city lot. I moved to the country and it was a nightmare to get it refinanced. I too was told I couldn't make any money, which basically meant I couldn't file a schedule F which I do. Even though your loan isn't sold it probably has to meet the Fannie Mae guidelines which won't allow for a schedule F. We finally found an FHA lender and they would allow the schedule F as long as we had other income, which we do. But I think FHA wouldn't go over 5 or 10 acres. 

If these lenders make you too crazy check USDA since this home isn't a mobile.

ETA, or maybe it was FHA that didn't like the schedule F and Fannie Mae didn't care...but we ended up with an FHA loan. Finally found a lender whose underwriters realized that money from  farming was NOT what we were living on.


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## AClark

You have far more patience than I. I would have said some choice words and looked for another lender at that point. My REA said NFCU's interest rates were a bit high and that they could do better - I'm not sure who I'll go with for mine, but definitely going to shop around after reading all of that.


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## Bruce

Mine probably is a Fannie. The property was listed as 2 parcels. The house barns and 5.3 acres,mostly fields and a small wetland. The other is ~20 acres (the prior owners chunked it off planning to build more houses on it like the did the rest of the property that they bought in 1999). Since they didn't also have them listed together, we had to pay cash for the ~20 acres because (IIRC) Fannie doesn't do loans on land. 

However, it is almost ALL woods, a fair bit of up and down and ledge. The only way I could claim an Ag exemption for that would be to buy a skidder and wood processing equipment. I do figure to pull some wood out, mostly for use in the woodstove in the house. I hadn't planned to make a business of it and I would NEED expensive wood processing equipment. I'm not up to cutting many, many, many cords of wood by hand with a chainsaw.


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## Latestarter

Problem with the USDA loans is that they have no real acreage limitation... they do it another way... 80% of the value of the property has to be tied up in the home, not the land. The VA has no problem backing a "farm" loan, and in fact over the past years, they have loosened there guidelines as so many war vets want to get away from crowds and go back to living off the land. They also have no acreage restrictions, they only care that the home meets guidelines and is habitable/livable. The problem I'm having is the lender, not the VA. Now, that being said, the first LO I worked with was superb! awesome! a joy! knowledgeable and intelligent! a servant! Too bad the KY property didn't work out.

just checked bankrate and they have the national average 30 yr fixed at 3.57% with no points, site average with no points is 3.4% Site average for 30 yr VA with no points is 3.14%. Right now NFCU's rate with no points according to "David" was 3.375% It's 3.125% with 1 point. Just looked at the NFCU site and it's 3.00% with .875 discount.


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## Latestarter

OK, so I now realize part of, if not the primary reason I'm having all these loan difficulties... the purchase offer was written on a contract labeled "Farm and Ranch Contract" vice a "Residential Real Estate Contract". This was done because the property is rural, outside city limits, and has acreage. It's standard fare in TX. It's how rural properties are contracted for sale/purchase. So I just got off the phone with my REA down there and told him the issue/problem. The VA appraisal should have been ordered today. The appraiser doesn't get a copy of the contract. I told my REA that he needs to make sure he gets to the appraiser and lets him know, the property is being purchased as a residence and NOT as a farm/ag property. That way when the lender gets the appraisal they won't flip out. Of course I may short circuit their attempt to body slam me and deny this loan. I sure hope so...

My REA has a lender down there that he says can do the loan and get it done in under 30 days. I asked him to contact that lender via Email and to add me as an addressee. If I need to I can use them as a fall back position. The problem is they aren't going to give me 3% as a rate and the costs are going to be substantially higher. How much I don't know...


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## Hens and Roos

Good luck, hopefully they get your loan figured out!


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## babsbag

It can make you crazy. When we did our refi the little bit higher interest rate didn't make much difference monthly and finding the right LO was worth the extra.


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## Bruce

Too bad you can't get the KY LO to take over for the guy you have now!


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## farmerjan

Just got on your "page" and read about some of your life, too bad that I didn't get to know you sooner!!!!!  Kentucky is a nice enough state but more humidity than I like, and I like the mountains here in the shenandoah valley in Va.. I have been looking, half-heartedly, for someone of like mind to maybe have a partnership-relationship or whatever with. Although I work pretty closely with my son, and we have farmed together for 20 plus years, there are some things I would like to do on my own and would like to find someone of like-mind to do it with.  Married, divorced 35 + years, loved someone who died 10 years ago that I would've spent the rest of my life with.  Not a big social butterfly and as I get older, just don't want all the baggage that comes with so many people with ex's and kids and all.  Land here in Va is getting alot more expensive than is was but I like the 4 seasons, and winters don't last as long as up north in N E where I moved from in 81. Have owned a place lost to foreclosure too, rent my house now but looking for something to retire to and own for my "old age" where I can have my dairy cows at home.  Have some chickens now and we have all the beef cows that Michael and I run. There are mostly his, mine and joint. He does all the farming expenses equipment purchases, rents, and this past year more of the work due to my joint issues but i do as much as i still can and hope to be back to more if this prolotherapy works with my joint issues. Don't want replacements, surgeries etc. if at all avoidable.  Best of luck and hope you find what you are looking for.  Keep in touch anyway, friends are always welcome.


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## Devonviolet

Welcome @farmerjan!   You have come to the right place to find people of like mind. 

Although many of us are female.    I (being female) have met some awesome, supportive females, here on BYH!    AND, many of us are "of a certain age" . . . been there, done that. Enjoying an active life "on the farm", in our retirement years.


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## Latestarter

Sorry folks, been an exceptionally difficult morning for me. Just got back from the vet and my little girl Mystie is no longer with me. Life had just gotten to be a drain on her and it wasn't fair to make her continue. I know it was the right thing to do but has been harder on me than I have ever experienced before. Normally when my dogs reach that point I do it myself and it's much easier/calmer for both of us. I'll never do it via a vet again. I have Mel, but I'll miss my little girl. I know she's finally at peace and resting.

Mystie helping me build chicken mansions ~2014





Mystie Showing the newly arrived Mel his new back yard and play area. ~2015


 
She will be missed.


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## ragdollcatlady

I am so sorry for your loss Latestarter!


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## NH homesteader

Oh I'm so sorry.  Dogs are family.  Closer than human family often.  And far more loyal. She was lovely.


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## frustratedearthmother

So sorry...


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## babsbag

I'm sorry, they steal our hearts.  I just lost a kitty last weekend too. I really wish that they would just go to sleep at home and not wake-up; the euthanization route is so hard. I once had a vet come to our home and put one down that had cancer, that was much easier for all of us.


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## farmerjan

Sorry to read of your loss. Dogs are family.   I got through all your pages and realized I commented when you were first looking at moving and was looking at the Ky properties. Don't have any good things to say about any bankers/lenders so will leave it to others. Good luck.  My company is in the process of closing out our pension fund so we will all get a lump sum payment. Mine will be small since it was frozen a couple of years after I started with them but will be enough to give me a 10 - 20% downpayment,  I hope, on a small place of my own and then my son can do the big farming thing too.  He already has his own house and the 75+ acre farm he (and the bank) just bought, so it's not like we are living/breathing the same air anyway. I would not want to be doing what you are going through.  What about farm credit?  they are member owned so to speak and we do alot of our financing through them. They don't just do farm loans, but country properties etc. I assume other states have them like Va.


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## AClark

I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm like you, I took 1 dog to the vet, once, and after that, no, I do it myself. 
But know this, she had a good life with you and was loved until the very end, that's what really matters.


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## Mini Horses

I so feel your pain.   It is hard to lose them and even worse when we must make the decision, even tho we know it is best.   Your sweet girl is running young & free again.  She will meet you at the bridge one day.


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## OneFineAcre

So sorry for your loss.
It's like losing a member of the family.


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## Mike CHS

So sorry Joe - it always amazes me how much emotion can be driven by the loss of an "animal".  They all become a part of us and we hate to see them go.  I lost my Macaw (Max) a couple of months ago and I still get teary eyed thinking about him.  He was with me for 16 years and was like one of my kids.


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## Devonviolet

Oh sweet Joe!  I am SO sorry!  I know how much you loved (heck, you still do!) your sweet little girl.

Sixteen years is a long time to have a pooch as a member of your family. They do cement themselves in our hearts, don't they? I know you will continue to feel her loss for a long time to come. 

We had to put our sweet little white Persian rescue kitty to sleep just before we left PA. The trip would have been too hard on her, as her kidneys had already failed. We still get teary eyed when we think of her, 2+ years later.


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## Latestarter

Sorry guys. Thanks so much for understanding. I'm gonna skip this thread for a few days. Every time I come back it rains...


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## AClark

I don't blame you. The horse in my avatar has been gone for 3 years this labor day, and as I write this I'm choking up thinking about it. You take your time on healing from the loss.


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## Ferguson K

I'm so sorry friend. 

It gets easier, but never gets better.


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## Southern by choice

No words. We all grieve with you.


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## Hens and Roos

so sorry to hear


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## norseofcourse

I'm so sorry for your loss     No matter how long we have them, it's never enough time.  And with all the changes in your life right now, it's even harder to lose a friend you've had this long


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## HomeOnTheRange

Sorry for your loss .  Understand the need to take some time.  We will all be here when you get back!


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## Bruce

You sure are having a stressful time Joe. I am really sorry you had to make the decision. Even knowing it was the right one doesn't make it easy to do so.



farmerjan said:


> ...
> 
> My company is in the process of closing out our pension fund so we will all get a lump sum payment. Mine will be small since it was frozen a couple of years after I started with them but will be enough to give me a 10 - 20% downpayment, ...


If you don't move that lump sum to an IRA, I believe it will be added to your taxable income for the year. That could get expensive.

And


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## Baymule

Big hugs.


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## Latestarter

Thanks again everyone. Since I'm by myself, this was my only outlet. Thanks for letting me vent here. I know most everyone here has been through it and understands. I can never be without a dog, so I'm destined to go through it again... How many more times? Depends on how many years the man upstairs gives me. I'll never do it via vet again. I'll take care of it myself.

@farmerjan I've been talking with my REA down in TX and he recommended a similar type/AG coop mortgage lender. I've already Emailed them and will use them as a backup if NFCU does indeed body slam me. The only thing is the interest rate and costs will be quite a bit higher. The more $$ I have to put toward mortgage each month, the less I'll have available to put toward animals. I'll know one way or the other tomorrow when the battle(s) continues. The clown at NFCU sent me electronic disclosures to sign, one of which is a rate lock at 3.375 with zero/zero. The rate they have published on site is 3.0 w/.875 discount (no origination), a much better situation. If he did indeed lock it, then to get 3.0 on that lock will cost a point and a half at least. I sent a scathing Email stating that I hoped he didn't really lock that rate without me asking him to or telling him to and that the disclosure was a miscommunication.

I need to start looking for home owner's insurance as well. I really hate this because every potential insurer is going to pull credit and though they say it has no effect, that's not entirely true, it does. And I also despise the fact that they base your insurance rate on your credit score. (mine is fine, it's the principle of it.)


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## luvmypets

I'm so sorry about your loss.  Animals know how to nuzzle their ways into our hearts. Whether they are with you 2 months or 16 years as norse said it never is enough. Glad you are back


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## misfitmorgan

Other states are hard ot get stuff i guess.

Here we can change the tax exemption on property every 6 months if we want, we have been in the place we are at only 13 months now and it was homestead, then non-homestead, and now its ag.

I'm also not sure what tax exemption your talking about for farming? We are tax exempt for our farm/ag stuff but that was just filling out paperwork online.

For any property here to qualify for Ag you just have to use 50% min for ag activities. So we have to use 10 acres min and our hay field is 12 acres so even with zero livestock as long as we made hay we would still qualify.

Maybe you could try FSA to get a loan, if your turned down by any bank you can get FSA loan. They have lower rates generally as well. FSA uses two types of USDA loans and interest rate is 3.00%


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## Mike CHS

Joe - you are already partly fixed with LGD's so check out Border Collies.  They are as smart as they get and make super pets along with being a work dog.


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## TAH

It is never easy to loose a life long friend!! 

I am so sorry for you.


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## Latestarter

Mike CHS said:


> Joe - you are already partly fixed with LGD's so check out Border Collies.  They are as smart as they get and make super pets along with being a work dog.



First order of business is to get moved and re-settled. Then I really need to concentrate on getting a herd started and get Mel established doing what I bought him to do... LGD work. I'll need to figure out what I'm going to do about a barn since there isn't one, and then setting up cross fencing for pastures. I thankfully already have some goats lined up to get Mel and I started  You know who you are  Then, since this property is pretty decent sized, and there are coyotes, I need to first get another LGD to team with Mel. I'd love to consider working with @secuono for one of hers but the timing isn't quite right... Kinda the same situation as with you Mike... I don't think I'll have the barn, fencing, and herd for them to be with until spring. She's going to want to have her pups placed by the end of October or so. Maybe if there's one she hasn't placed by next spring, it will work out.

Since there's a very large Pyr rescue organization in TX, I may work with them and see if they have any working dogs in need of a new home and a job...

After that's taken care of, then I'll want/need a couple of "farm dogs" to watch over the home and yard. Really looking for bigger animals in the 70-90 pound range... I like spending most of my income on dog food... 

So I have talked with an insurance person down in TX and he's working up a quote for me. He estimates it will be between 1400-1800/yr. I'd figured on 1500, so close. He's also doing a farm and ranch policy which he said is far better coverage than a residential binder and will cover out buildings and animals. He said the binder won't say "farm and ranch" so it shouldn't cause an issue with NFCU. I also talked to the farmer's coop about doing the loan through them. They can do the both properties together as one and still keep them separate the 1 acre home and the rest as AG. The lowest rate they have right now is 3.75%. I asked if I could buy that down, but I think dropping the loan amount a bit with a larger down payment will still keep this do-able. The appraiser for this place is supposed to be here tomorrow morning, so I should know (approximately) what this place is going to net me by the end of the week. Then I'll know what I can and can't do. The coop will go to a DTI of up to 43%.


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## babsbag

Makes me tired just reading about it.  Hope this all gets lined up for you soon as I am sure it wears on you much more than it does me.


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## Mike CHS

We have our insurance through USAA and you are eligible for them, and includes outbuildings.  We don't have a mortgage so I don't know if that makes any difference on the situation.


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## misfitmorgan

We are doing a USDA loan thru Farm Services and its 3.00%...no down payment needed.


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## farmerjan

Hi again. Just a couple of thoughts;  Our farm credit in Va is member owned so at the end of the year my son gets a "dividend" check or whatever they call it according to what the company has made in profit.  Guess it's a profit sharing check.  He often just takes and signs it back as payment on one of the operating loans or something, and now that he has the new mortgage on the 75 acre farm will there will be someplace to put it, although the house on it will be rented and the rent will be paying a portion of the mortgage.  Neither one of us wants to live there, it was a good opportunity to buy some land real reasonable as the owner lost his job, won't find another job, and was going to lose it to the bank. Sad, but we helped him all we could and he won't help himself so now it is ours.  It's more of an investment than the actual place we want to be.  Farm credit also does our insurance on all the farm related stuff...

We use llama's in with our sheep for guardians.  They eat what the sheep eat, no added dog food, no worrying about them straying and if you get a decent one, they are awesome guard animals.  They will chase and stomp a coyote into the ground, they aren't very effective against the black bear problem we have had in the area but hey.......same basic care as the sheep except that we have hair sheep so the llama's need shearing. We raise white texas dall sheep, like big horns, the males go to a couple of hunting preserves in Pa and they are not pets.  We keep the ewes fairly friendly but not like "domestic" sheep.  They are very hardy, the biggest problem we have is worms in the moister climate.  And foot rot although we are breeding from the more resilient animals all the time. Tried guard dogs but we rent too many pastures and the dogs wouldn't stay and neighbors would feed them and feel sorry for them and they wouldn't stay there to do their job and it just didn't work.

I do realize that I will have to do some kind of rollover with the pension thing so as to not get hit with so much income tax but it can be used as collateral so to speak and if I decide to retire I will have a smaller income too so it might not hurt me the next year.  Plus I have a small 401 k that I might just take a disbursement from since they are not earning very much and I sure don't trust the stock market after losing half of it in the 2008 disaster and finally made it all back and changed the way it was invested when we were offered more options.  Better to buy land and not pay rent in the end.  Hope I haven't bored you to tears...


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## Bruce

The thing I found out about 401K's is that ANYTHING you take out is treated as ordinary income. No capital gains. If you and the company jointly put in $50K over time and it is now worth $100K, you would think that $50K would be capital gains but no. I guess they figure if the money put in was pre-tax, the gain is as well.

Found this out when I pulled some to put in the solar array. Federal tax credit of 30%. But it is a credit so you need to owe that much in taxes to get the full 30%. If you can't use the full amount in one year, I think you can carry it forward but I don't know for how many years. 

Thus if you can do something useful with the money that generates a tax credit, you can lower your tax hit.


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## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> The thing I found out about 401K's is that ANYTHING you take out is treated as ordinary income. No capital gains. If you and the company jointly put in $50K over time and it is now worth $100K, you would think that $50K would be capital gains but no. I guess they figure if the money put in was pre-tax, the gain is as well.
> 
> Found this out when I pulled some to put in the solar array. Federal tax credit of 30%. But it is a credit so you need to owe that much in taxes to get the full 30%. If you can't use the full amount in one year, I think you can carry it forward but I don't know for how many years.
> 
> Thus if you can do something useful with the money that generates a tax credit, you can lower your tax hit.



Hi Bruce;  yeah I took out 5,000 a couple of years ago from the 401k to buy some cattle and in 2 years made back that in sales and still have the cows. Had to pay the taxes on it, up front, which was not great, but okay, but after 59 1/2 don't have to pay a penalty.  The money wasn't making much and I did alot better with the live cows and selling the calves.  They are at least "renewable" if they don't die!!!!!!  As for the pension, as soon as our company gets everything in order;   we have an investment firm that has been handling it and the guy has been with our company for over 20 years and he gives good advise;  I will talk to him one on one and see which is the best way to go.  We have been trying  to fully fund the pension fund for several years and get out of it due to the gov't bs nowadays and figuring that down the road it might not be there considering the national debt etc....It should be done by the end of this year they hope.  Don't trust that social security will be there either in a few more years.....Also don't want to keep too much money in the bank cuz' if it gets bad the gov't might do something like greece did and only allow you to take a token of your own money out a day or the atms might just stop etc.  I am not a "sky is falling" type of person, but....don't trust the gov't and it's CRAZY policies anymore...  Ever read any of William W Johnstone Invasion USA or other ones about  "current" conditions....?  Makes you stop and think....


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## Latestarter

So I contacted the FSA (USDA) about doing the loan through them... No can do. They require that you have a minimum of 3 years documented farm management experience in the past ten years to do the loan. They did tell me that after I purchase the place, they'll give me a loan to buy cattle  Gotta get a loan to BUY the place first!  Can't do a USDA loan as 80% of the property value has to be in the home (too much land). SO... it looks like I have to bite my nails waiting on NFCU, and if they balk, I will use TX Farm Credit at 3.75% instead.


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## farmerjan

Do the farm credit loan, get the place bought and then do a refinance after you get situated.  Then you will be there, and alot of time farm credit will do a refi with no/minimal  closing costs.  At this point you need to get there, if the economy crashes you might even do better with costs....and if texas farm credit is member owned then you will get money back as a member....Get it approved, you can back out up until you have the closing...


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## babsbag

I am working on an FSA loan right now for the land next to us; they financed my dairy for me.


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## Kusanar

farmerjan said:


> Hi again. Just a couple of thoughts;  Our farm credit in Va is member owned so at the end of the year my son gets a "dividend" check or whatever they call it according to what the company has made in profit.  Guess it's a profit sharing check.  He often just takes and signs it back as payment on one of the operating loans or something, and now that he has the new mortgage on the 75 acre farm will there will be someplace to put it, although the house on it will be rented and the rent will be paying a portion of the mortgage.  Neither one of us wants to live there, it was a good opportunity to buy some land real reasonable as the owner lost his job, won't find another job, and was going to lose it to the bank. Sad, but we helped him all we could and he won't help himself so now it is ours.  It's more of an investment than the actual place we want to be.  Farm credit also does our insurance on all the farm related stuff...
> QUOTE]
> I have my mortgage through the VA farm credit, I believe it is a 2 times a year check plus it seems there are a few random bonus checks that they send out, generally, the checks you get back total about 1 monthly payment on the loan, so you really only have to pay 11 months a year if you want, they give you back money for the 12th.


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## Latestarter

I'm not sure if TFC is like those or not. I haven't asked yet. Since I already gave NFCU the go ahead to spend $475 for an appraisal, I'll wait and see what comes of that. I also have one issue with the new place that I'm waiting to hear back on from the inspection report. The chimney has the roof shingles right up touching it with no flashing and it doesn't look like a heat collar either. I have told the seller I want a professional roofer to look at that and fix it so I don't have to worry about leaks or burning the place down. I also said I wanted drip edges installed under all roof edges as right now there are none. There' are no gutters either, which is why I want the drip edges. They should have been installed when the roof was replaced.


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## Latestarter

OK, so one of the things my buyers here wanted was a breaker box/shut off switch installed on the electric line that's going into the garage. Since the previous owner did it himself (to code... mostly) without permits or anything, I was going to have to have a licensed electrician come in and install it at a cost of well over a grand. In addition, since it was done "under the table" the first time around, it could have potentially opened up a huge can of worms. My neighbor was over and I was telling him about it and it turns out he's a retired master electrician  He said he'd do if for me for the price of parts.  He just finished and handed me the receipt... $66.00  He set it up as a GFI circuit to boot! Nice to have good neighbors! I have to head out to the bank and get some cash to pay him. I'm gonna buy myself lunch while I'm out. That's the major issue of the 4 they wanted corrected. I can do the other 3, two are simple, one will require some effort.

Thinking it's about time I had a nice large Philly cheese steak sub w/onions and mushrooms, and xtra cheese  Don't need the calories, but sure need the flavor  Hope I can find eateries down in TX that serve my fave foods... Buffalo wings, Philly cheese steak subs... and just about any meat... grilled, BBQ'd, and or smoked 

Oh, and it turns out the appraiser for here is NEXT Tuesday, not today, so I got up at 6am for nuthin'!


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## frustratedearthmother

There's not much better than a great neighbor!  That's awesome.  Go get that Philly cheese steak - you have reason to celebrate!


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## AClark

A taste of philly in Co Springs was one of my favorite greasy treats ever - so I'm in envy right now of the sammich! 
You need to build a smoker and get a brisket. Not much beats brisket on the smoker. We built ours out of a 55 gal food drum, a table stand I found out in the desert, some stove pipe, and a small trash can. Hubby did the cutting, I welded it - it's ugly but it does the nicest cold smoke! 
Last time I did a brisket I smoked it for an hour per lb. It sat in there over night and half the next day - soooooo good.


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## Baymule

Thinking it's about time I had a nice large Philly cheese steak sub w/onions and mushrooms, and xtra cheese  Don't need the calories, but sure need the flavor  Hope I can find eateries down in TX that serve my fave foods... Buffalo wings, Philly cheese steak subs... and just about any meat... grilled, BBQ'd, and or smoked 

If meat is your favorite food, you are in luck! It just so happens that Texans love their meats!!


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## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


> There's not much better than a great neighbor!  That's awesome.  Go get that Philly cheese steak - you have reason to celebrate!



And one for the neighbor! Sure glad you were "complaining" to him about it. If the parts cost $66 and the currently working electrician was going to be over $1K, he is a cheat. I know they will mark up the parts 100% (cover their time to go get them I guess) but there can't be $1K worth of labor. How long did it take your neighbor, a couple of hours maybe?

@farmerjan I hear you on the SS. The claim is you can start collecting at 62, reduced benefit, and it increases 8% per year until you are 70 if you don't start to collect earlier. That may well be true but like you, I'm not so sure it will be there for the next 20 or 30 years of my life after I hit 62 (which isn't all that far off). And if it is still there, perhaps they will need to reduce the amount for those already collecting. Maybe best to get what you can WHILE you can. Also, @Latestarter can give you numbers on the ACTUAL breakeven age if you start at 62.


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## farmerjan

With my low income levels  it will pay me to wait as long as I can to collect.  I will be 63 in sept  and will see how things go with this prolotherapy on my joints before I decide.  Drs. been saying knee replacement for nearly 10 years but my ankle has gotten alot worse than the knee ; 4 of the 5 ankle  drs in the last year have said fusion which I just can't accept.  The last one says replacement but I will be out of work for min. 6 months.  This prolotherapy has been around for 60+ years but since they can't patent it, is practically unheard of.  If it works I will continue to work another year or more.... we'll see.  I make too much now to collect anyway and I don't want to give up my ins. yet so will continue to work. But  i am tired of the crazy early hours, and with so many of the farmers i milk test for getting older, if too many sell out I will lose my full-time status and then I'm done.

Need to leave some of that honey with that wonderful neighbor for the electrical fix!!!!!!!!


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## Baymule

@farmerjan you need to talk to someone at a SS office about your benefits. My husband started drawing SS at 65 instead of waiting until his full retirement age of 66. He continued to work. The limit that he could make without getting slammed in taxes was something like $14,000. When he reached the limit, he stopped the SS payments. Because he continued to work, his payments went up. The difference of drawing at 65 versus 66 was $125. The helpful lady at the SS office crunched the numbers and said it would take 14 years to make up the $125 difference.

It might be that you could start your SS and stop it when you reach the dollar limit of what you can make before getting taxed to death. When my DH was drawing SS and still working, if he kept drawing his SS after reaching the $14,000 income limit, then he was taxed up to half of what he drew. Be sure to know the income limit and make a trip to your friendly SS office and cut off the SS payments before you go over limit.


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## Mini Horses

I started mine at 62, still working.  They reduced my SS by the amount that was applicable as an over the $14,800 earnings allowed (50% of overage).  Well, they don't reduce your check they just will not give you one UNTIL to have had their 50% withheld.   So, I didn't get a check for almost 6 mos.    Then 2 mos after I began getting the checks,  my job was dissolved in a company merger.   I began unemployment, reported to SS and they sent me the withheld $$ about a month later.  The unemployment did not count into their figures as it was not earned income.     Since I have always worked to some extent they have re-adjusted my check 3 times now.   At my current age there is NO max earned income for me.


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## Latestarter

Well, Happy Labor Day weekend to all. I'm now just about 3 weeks away from becoming temporarily homeless, barring any further complications... As a result, I've been doing my best to eat myself out of house and home, so to speak. I'm really trying to NOT buy groceries (despite meat sales or any other bargains) and just feed myself off what I have here. That doesn't include perishables of course, like milk. My normal & zombie apocalypse supplies are rapidly dwindling and my cupboards, pantry & freezers are slowly getting emptied. When I was a younger man and a single father trying to feed hungry, growing kids, we all rather enjoyed hamburger helper. It was rather easy, quick and overall tasty. That was back when hamburger was actually hamburger made from real beef, and not pink slime and whatever all else is now called/in hamburger. 

Anyway, over the past year or two I've come to the conclusion that something has changed... even adding spices and doctoring it, it just isn't the same as it was all those years ago. The problem is, I have 5-6 packages of hamburger in the freezer and about a dozen boxes of various flavors of the stuff, and I really don't want to make it and eat it. I mean if I was starving and had no choice I would, but that's not my present situation... I guess I could give the boxes to a food bank... I mean they were only like $1.25-2.00 each... no huge monetary loss. I can still use the burger for burgers, or chili or as I did today; spaghetti sauce. Yup, had 2 cans of Hunts spag sauce hidden in the back of the pantry and cooked up a pound of burger w/some fresh chopped onion and added it to a can of garlic flavored sauce. Wish I'd had a can of shrooms to add as well. So today was pasta day. Rotini for lunch, and regular spaghetti for dinner with a nice thick meat sauce. Not the little crumbly bits they call meat in their "meat" sauce, but real ground beef chunks and real diced onion. Delish   Now normally I prefer my own home made sauce, but as I said, I'm using up zombie apocalypse stores too... 

Now, I happen to have one more rather large frozen item I need to get taken care of... a 12 pound turkey. (there's a prepackaged double rack of beef ribs too, but we'll disregard those for the moment) I had hoped to cook it last weekend and then again this weekend when my daughter was supposed to be coming. Both times she changed her work schedule and it's still frozen. I'm thinking next weekend, daughter or not, that bird is gonna roast! Mel and I will eat very well for 3-4 days. So this is my final weekend of rest. Starting Tuesday, the real work begins as I start packing up all non-essentials and pre staging it to the garage. Gonna be going through all the boxes that have been in the garage since I got here and trash, trash, trash! I want to move light! Got some prettying to do this weekend though as the appraiser will be here Tuesday morning also.

Next couple of weeks ought to get real exciting!


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## farmerjan

What's the progress with the new place; loan etc?  Don't blame you for wanting to move 'light'  but  don't be too hasty as there will be a day that you say  "dar n, I should've kept the so and so".  Yeah, give the boxed h'burger helper and stuff like that to the food bank.  Cook the turkey, eat and use it for sandwiches, etc.  Your daughter can always come for leftovers...  How is the situation with her and your moving?  I remember you were taking into consideration her possibly moving with you at one time.  Have a good Labor day too!!


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## NH homesteader

Yay! How exciting? So let's just make sure the zombies hold off until you are moved,  unpacked and re-stocked. But seriously,  I wish I had a reason (like am exciting big move)  to make my husband get rid of the boxes of junk that will be useful "someday". 

Isn't it funny how tastes change? I used to be able to eat that stuff,  now it just tastes like chemicals.


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## Bruce

Boxes unopened in 3 years? Give them to GoodWill unless they are family pictures and such that they don't want. You obviously don't need whatever is in them since I don't THINK your move to CO was planned to be short term 

Maybe that nice neighbor that did the "parts cost only" electrical work for you would like to join you and Mel for the turkey and the ribs  Any other local friends you would like to say goodbye too other than a wave on your way out of town could join too.


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## Baymule

Be careful of what you get rid of. Make sure it really is junk before you toss it. But the flip side of that coin is that you don't want to take up space with crap you don't need. Food items, I'm a hoarder too and we ate down my pile of goodies before we moved. It takes awhile to get stocked back up. A garden sure helps on the grocery bill.


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## Latestarter

I have boxes of stuff left over from my pre-teen days onward (yeah... been following me around for 1/2 a century) as well as stuff my folks kept and then gave to me when THEY were downsizing... So much of it is just crap... I mean really... no sentimental value and most of it I don't even know what's in there anymore... Like Bruce said. It hasn't been opened or looked at for decades. Broken knickknacks and junk I kept because I thought it might be "useful" down the road. I do have collectibles like porcelain plate sets and such that won't go away. and some crystal, but the garbage is gonna be called for what it is. No tools will be sold/discarded (go figure, right?) and the necessities obviously will stay, but a lot of my stuff is just old and worn out and past time to be replaced. So why go through the effort of moving it? I have a 15 year old reclining sofa and reclining love seat. I moved them here because this place has 2 "living rooms" so I put one in each, not so in my new place, and I don't need/want them, so a neighbor said they were better than what she has so she's gonna take them. More power to her! I was gonna donate them to the epilepsy foundation. In the new place, I'd like a smaller love seat (maybe) and several recliners. So much easier to move around, and much more comfy.  I expect this will be my last major item purchase to carry me through.


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## frustratedearthmother

A big move sure does make you think about what's worth moving!  I can't even imagine the work involved in a cross country move  I've been in this place almost 30 years and have 30 years of accumulated 'stuff' to go along with it.


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## babsbag

When we moved 8 years ago we moved ourselves and had plenty of time as the house we were leaving was going back to the bank   We had lived there 23 years, raised our two sons there and stashed keepsakes in the attic for 23 years too. We moved 3 hours away so it took us 9 months of week end trips with truck and 20' trailer to haul it all here.


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## Latestarter

wow... can't imagine... 9 months one weekend at a time...


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## OneFineAcre

We moved way to much junk with us on our last move
That's why we have way to much junk now


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## frustratedearthmother

Makes sense!   I had a function with some students yesterday, we worked a waterstop at a fun run.  Dh went with....unfortunately there was a garage sale right across the street from our waterstop.  I had to drag DH away from there...with him looking back and telling the guy  "I'll be back".  He didn't go back!


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## Southern by choice

I live with several "savers"... .... I kept saying one day this is gonna bite ya in the butt when we move because I AM NOT DOING IT!   DH has alot of work ahead of him. 

You'll be glad to get rid of all the "stuff" so not worth the time and energy. It is a great new start for you! How exciting!


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## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> I live with several "savers"... .... I kept saying one day this is gonna bite ya in the butt when we move because I AM NOT DOING IT!   DH has alot of work ahead of him.
> 
> You'll be glad to get rid of all the "stuff" so not worth the time and energy. It is a great new start for you! How exciting!


I tell Rachel it's going to bite her in the butt when I'm dead because then she'll have to get rid of all of it


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## frustratedearthmother

I'm gonna have to call the 1-800-GOT-JUNK if DH goes before me!


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## Hens and Roos

I hear you on cleaning out "stuff", my parents have been in the same home that my dad lived in since he was a year old- he's now 85 years old.....there is at least 2 generations of "stuff" and my dad wont let anything be cleaned out


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## NH homesteader

My step-grandfather died 2 years ago and my step-dad and his brother are still going through stuff.  Unfortunately,  my husband is the collector in the family so stuff they don't want mostly ends up at my house (ughhh!)


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## Southern by choice

I refuse to do that to my kids. I see the "collectors" that die and their children are having to deal with so much stuff it is sad. 
Look I've come a long way... ya'll are talking to a chick that didn't leave the house unless every stitch of clothing was washed folded and put away...


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## TAH

When my mom's grandparents died it took us 3 months to get rid of everything. 

We ended up getting about 100 dolls and 100 bears. I was littery running around the house when all there stuff letf. We are in the same place as latestarter moving across the country and getting rid of everything and I mean everything . It is so nice to start over but when we start over we won't be having very much. I think it is very good to have what is necessary and maybe a little more but not much.


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## Latestarter

Don't get me wrong, some stuff is worth saving if for no other reason than heritage. I won't destroy/eliminate any pictures, that sort of thing. I still have all the kids school pictures in the original packages. Some day I hope to make a collage of them all. Things like that. I won't get rid of stuff that I'm obviously going to need and use. like tools and such. My daily drinking glasses are no longer complete sets, hodge podge of coffee mugs, many still packed away that are collectors mugs from my Navy days. Plates and bowls are broken/missing. My pots and pans are non-stick over anodized aluminum and most of the non-stick is gone... eaten and washed away... (Sure there's cancer in my future over that... ) I mean I live with "old stuff" and hope to gradually replace most of it for "final sets" to last me till the end of my days. My master bedroom set is 30+ years old (the mattress isn't, thank God!). But there's nothing really terribly wrong with it except it's real wood (pine), stained dark walnut, heavy and bulky, and "dated".

On this move, I'm not being charged by weight, but by linear space I use inside the trailer. The less stuff I have to pack, the less work for me on both ends, and the less it's going to cost me to move. @Baymule you owned a furniture store, and you recommended a store to me which I really intend to go visit after I get there. Do you or @Devonviolet know of any good "scratch & dent" or "lightly used" appliance businesses? I'm going to need all new appliances. The stove there (electric) looks old/used/bad, the dishwasher I have no idea about, it's old, there's no refer, and my washer/dryer are staying here so they'll need replacing. I'll need to measure the refer space as it looked to small to fit a big side by side.

I mean, fun times are ahead for sure! What an adventure!


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## babsbag

We had foot lockers full of stuff that belonged to our kids...homemade blankets, favorite stuffed animals, favorite classic toys, ($1000's in Legos) Cub scout and Boy Scout memorabilia like pinewood derby cars and trophies, and other things that they weren't ready to part with. Then the tools, we own them all. I kept thinking that each trip would be the last...it was an adventure. 

The last trip we moved all my pond goldfish, the mosquito fish, and even the trap door snails.  We had a generator mounted on the trailer to run an air pump; they all made it just fine. 

Next time we move I am in the box.


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## Latestarter

babsbag said:


> Next time we move I am in the box.


 YUP YUP! Exactly!


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> ..... In the new place, I'd like a smaller love seat (maybe) and several recliners. So much easier to move around, and much more comfy.  I expect this will be my last major item purchase to carry me through.



I personally am not fond of "love seats". Too big to be a chair, tight for two unless you are "close" and you can't lie down on them unless you are no more than about 5 years old 



Latestarter said:


> wow... can't imagine... 9 months one weekend at a time...



ONLY 9 months??? We've been working on clearing out the old house for a YEAR. Long story short 23 Y/O DD has had a 24x7x365 migraine since she was 14 and gets episodic migraines on top. Bought current place to get her further from civilization but DD2 still had 2 years in HS and I didn't think it fair to move her somewhere she knew no one. She is now a Senior at Beloit College  Thought I was doing her Foster Child friend a favor by letting him stay there cheap to finish school (I think I just enabled him to not get on with his life) So nothing cleaned out until starting this time last year. Wife used to do the finances until about 2 years ago. EVERY SINGLE credit card receipt and bank deposit withdrawal from the time we got married almost 26 years ago were stored (in various places) in envelopes by month. Can't just chuck them, home improvement receipts buried in there, so I have to look through every envelope. Tip of the "her stuff" iceberg.

And DD1 was still watching a girl down the street at that house on Monday nights, including dinner until mid June so cleaning out the kitchen didn't get any priority. Getting there now; anyone want a couple dozen Vermont Public Radio mugs?? Fortunately wife's nephew moved into an apartment with friends this semester. UVM is ripping down and building new dorms and no Juniors or Seniors can live in a dorm this year. He needs a bed! Gives us the kick in the ass to rent a truck to move the bigger things that don't fit in a Prius. 

Now we have to figure out where to put it here. Then I can get to finishing all the wood trim that stopped when DD1's head went south (I custom made it from rough cherry and red birch so can't just toss in some cheap painted stuff from Lowes), and repairing all the holes in the walls (nails and paint pulled by tape holding up the kid's artwork from back to grammar school, etc. Paint, redo the floors where some people didn't pick their butts up when they slid their chair back, etc.



Southern by choice said:


> I live with several "savers"... .... I kept saying one day this is gonna bite ya in the butt when we move because I AM NOT DOING IT!   DH has alot of work ahead of him.
> 
> You'll be glad to get rid of all the "stuff" so not worth the time and energy. It is a great new start for you! How exciting!



That is what I said! Never moving, too much junk. We moved, wife working at the PO 6 days a week. Guess who has to deal with all her stuff. Especially "fun" when she says "don't bring anything, I don't have time to look through it". Next move is in a box, per @babsbag below. Of course I also swore, while we were living at the other house in piles here, piles there, piles everywhere that I would never have another house with any horizontal surfaces that can collect stuff. Including floors. I failed.



Southern by choice said:


> I refuse to do that to my kids. I see the "collectors" that die and their children are having to deal with so much stuff it is sad.
> Look I've come a long way... ya'll are talking to a chick that didn't leave the house unless every stitch of clothing was washed folded and put away...



Told DD1 that anything we store now is something she and her sister will have to deal with when we kick the bucket. Plenty of trips to Goodwill but I'm willing to bet that anything we box up and move that isn't used now, won't ever get used in the future. We have effectively been living full time in the current place since May 2014 after half the house was (UNPLANNED!!!!) rebuilt. And we managed to live without any of the stuff we have been going through at the old house.


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## Latestarter

I didn't like loveseats either... same reasons you outlined, then I discovered reclining love seats. You don't have to try and lay down along the length anymore, just pull the lever and lay back. It's obviously not totally horizontal, but that fact has never deterred me (or anyone else here who did so and was tired) from catching a few ZZzzzs. Also, love seats come in different widths as well. The one I have now is right at 6' wide while the couch is only @ 7'... Not a huge difference there, unless of course you're over 6' tall... As for being close, I guess maybe that's why they call them "love seats?"

You know, when I think about it, I think we've all got a little hoarder in us. I mean like has been said, there are boxes I haven't been into in a decade or more, but I have a difficult time saying (and doing) just chuck it, because I really don't know what it is I'm chucking. Granted, 98% of it IS trash, but I do have some things of value, like several coin collection sleeves and that sort of thing. I'm not really worried about the "collectible toy from early 60s brings $10,000 at auction"! sort of thing. Anyway, thinking about it, I can kinda understand the angst of the folks on the show hoarders when they're forced to let others decide if they need to look at "their stuff" before trashing it. All the more reason to NOT collect stuff in the first place... then there's no need to go through any of that. I really hope that when I go, the kids will find that 75% or more of the stuff I leave behind is usable and has some value for use in their lives... tools, guns, ammo, food, furniture, that sort of thing.


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## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> You know, when I think about it, I think we've all got a little hoarder in us.



Ummm, NO. 

I'm the kind to put the hoarders show on to motivate the "collectors" in my house ... to NOT 

I guess in some ways it might be kind of fun if you see it as part of the adventure. And it will all be organised for later for your children/grandchildren.


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## Mike CHS

We got rid of tons of stuff before our move but we are now in  the progress of getting rid of duplicate tools that we had both here in Tennessee and our old place in SC while we were doing our renovation.


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## Bruce

We are there to a point as well. Since my DW (mostly) and DD1 lived in the "new" house for a year while I was at the old house (mostly) with DD2, we had to buy some duplicate stuff. Then they had to move back while half the house was rebuilt due to the undisclosed rot (lying sellers). Not back in this house for another year. 

And my Aunt died so I have a couple of extra pieces of furniture that were hers. And then my Dad moved back to So Cal, downsized, so I have a few more extra pieces of furniture, some LARGE like the armoire. Plus the marble topped H dresser that was my grandfather's, made in the 1870s and a couple of dressers he made and the cedar chest my grandmother made in his woodshop class  before they were married (all brought when I moved to VT in '79) and ... not parting with any of that until I am 6' under.


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## Latestarter

Well, appraiser has been and gone. He said the report should be done in a couple of days so I should know by the end of the week I'd guess. He said he had 37 comps he could use...


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## Baymule

I used to collect stuff. Couldn't pass a flea market or garage sale. Then I just got tired. Tired of cleaning it, tired of dusting it, tired of the clutter of it all. Don't get me wrong, I still have clutter, we down sized and no matter how much I got rid of, there is still too much. But I thought I would share a few simple rules of life with ya'll.

#1. NO "collectibles."  Ever been to someone's house and they have 873 sets of salt and pepper shakers and they are all frogs? Yeah, you won't find that at my house.

#2. Do not give me collectibles for gifts. Do not give me something to mark the occasion so I can look at it and think of you forever. If you do, they will all be bad thoughts.

#3. If I have to dust it, I don't want it.

#4. If you give me a gift, make it something useful, in MY world, not YOURS. A Tractor Supply gift card will do quite nicely, thank you very much.

#5. Best Christmas present ever; a grocery store gift card. I use it, buy the groceries, take them home, cook them, eat them and flush them down the toilet.


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## AClark

I noticed a long time back that hamburger isn't the same, it doesn't even look the same. The butcher at the commissary told me it's because they get it in the spaghetti like (which I remember) packages and then re-grind it for re-packaging. No thanks, I usually buy a roast now and grind it down. 
We did much the same over labor day, though our move is a couple of months out. We had a BBQ and I smoked a 15 lb brisket. I knew there's no way my family is going to do a large brisket before Christmas so seemed best to share with friends! We'll be giving the contents of our freezer to my husbands soldier when we get closer to moving. It's hard to give away home packaged meats and wild game, but giving it to someone you know that knows how tidy and clean your kitchen is and can trust your packaging works.


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## AClark

Baymule - you sound like me! I don't have knick knacks, but that's mainly because I hate clutter. I do not collect things for their looks, I have a scrap wood and wire collection though. For Christmas and birthdays I ask for practical things. I don't want jewelry because all I wear is my wedding ring and a necklace, I have 8 ear piercings but a nickle allergy. So that means I can wear nice expensive earrings, but I won't because I'm afraid to lose them - I'm better off without. 
I always ask everyone to not buy me nice clothes, I'm quite happy to wear wranglers and a raggy t-shirt/tank top. They may, however, buy me boots lol. Usually I just ask for kitchen appliances, pos/pans, knives, or something else I can get a lot of use out of. I asked for a crock pot one Christmas, a floor jack for another. I got new headlights for my truck for my birthday...and I was elated for mothers day when my husband bought me a stainless steel pot and pan set and a new knife set. Guns and tools are always welcomed gifts. 

But, people cherish what they will. One of my most prized possessions is a wooden cutting board, it was my g-grandmothers.


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## Baymule

I have a 12 place setting of china with lots of extra pieces--in boxes because my china cabinet wouldn't fit and we sold it.  

@AClark I am laughing as I read your post. My DH got the big closet. I threw out the tacky wire racks that screamed MOBILE HOME CRAP and built him a closet. His closet is 10'x4' so I built a 3'x18"x7' tower and a 2'x18"x7'tower with two clothes poles in between. He also has a nice framed full length mirror. My clothes hang in about a 2' section and I commandeered a shelf to put my blue jeans on. I have a chest for T-shirts, socks, underwear and such. I have a small closet where the china is stacked.   It doesn't take much to make me happy. When I quit working in the public, I got rid of 4 trash bags of heels.....never again will I ever wear those things.


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## AClark

Same here, I threw all but 1 pair of dress shoes out, because I use those when we have military functions - they are flats. Now that my job no longer requires torture trap footwear, life is a lot better.


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## Latestarter

So in looking through my refer freezer to see what goodies might still be available to eat, I noticed 4 or 5 bags of frozen poultry parts (frozen covered in water in zip locks) in the top shelf of the door. Been meaning to do something with those and today became the day. Last night I took them out and placed them in my large soup pot and covered it so they could thaw. This morning I started simmering them all down (necks, gizzards/livers/hearts from chickens and turkeys)

Man, this house smells divine!   So I let it cool some and pulled all the solids out, then added back more water some celery sticks, and added in 4 boneless/skinless breasts and brought it back to a boil. skimmed off the froth, removed the celery and they're simmering now for a while. When that's done, will cool it a bit again, pull breasts and rip them into chunks and put back, then add some cubed potato, diced carrots, and bring back to a boil. After a bit, I'll then add some large egg noodles, after a bit more, diced celery, a little diced onion, then simmer for ~ 15 minutes, and I'll be having me some SOUP!   (all the other spices like salt/pepper/garlic/parsley were added at the start)

Being a cook, I've already sampled the stock... <sigh> it's delish! Then I'll take all the solids and break them down for Mel's dinner mixed with his dry over the coming couple of days. He has become so food spoiled...   just dry dog food (even the meat first $50 a bag GOOD stuff) doesn't "do it" for him any more... He wants real meat and meat broth or cooked eggs and shredded cheese, or meat scraps from whatever meat I've been eating... Last night it was remnants of a rib eye steak with the bone soaked in hot water for leeching then that flavored water added. He's a good boy 

Thought I'd posted this back at lunch time and just came back to report and found it still sitting in the edit window... So I just finished a french onion soup sized bowl of the soup. Man is it good! About to get a refill. Mel loved his dinner with chicken and turkey remains - soup, mixed in his dry food. There's enough of that to add to his food for three meals/days.


----------



## Bruce

You and Mel may not fit in the truck for the move by the time you clear out the refrigerator and freezer!


----------



## AClark

That's awesome Late! I did something similar last night, but it was thighs and dumped them in the crockpot with bell pepper, green chiles (from Hatch of course!) and a jalapeno. I'm still trying not to touch my eyes from cutting that jalapeno, even though I washed my hands in blue Dawn twice, I still have a burn from it - got some good ones! Then shredded it and mixed with cheese for burritos. 
All the leftover juice was given to the dogs, they didn't seem to mind either. I buy them some brand of dog food from TS that's one of those grain-free foods made out of fish, $33 a bag for a big bag. It stinks to high heaven but they like it. My dogs get all of our leftovers with few exceptions. 

I've put leftover freezer goodies on craigslist if I didn't have anyone to give them to and couldn't get them eaten before we've moved - people will drive out to take free frozen meat. I think food banks will also take donations if you can't get it all gone before your move. I have so much in my deep freezer that we're already working on what you're doing - the poor thing is literally full, and I have 2 refrigerators with both freezers partially full. 
What about canned goods? I have lots of canned things (home canned) that we're trying to finish off so we make weight. Empty jars weigh a lot less than ones full of food! I will have boxed food items packed but not cans, as they take up so much weight - but we're pretty restricted (I think 13,000 lbs) and are going to end up having to DITY some of our stuff so we don't go over. Some of our stuff has to be DITY (live ammo, primers, powder) anyway, but I have some heavy things that might push us over. 

How are you packing, dity or having a moving company?


----------



## Latestarter

Oh, I well understand the hot pepper oils and eyes issue. All it takes is one reflex rubbing of the eyes and the pain lasts for hours! There shouldn't be any real perishable leftovers come move time for me. I've "planned" it out pretty well and haven't done a major shop in months. I'm really trying to get rid of as much as I possibly can, and that's NOT just food! I'm right now in a 1400+ square foot 3 Br, 2.5 bath and I'm moving into a 1500+ 3 BR, 2 bath. I have a 2 car garage here for storage, but no garage there, though it does have a rather large double door shed with "attic" storage at either end and a smaller double door "machine shop" bldg with "ramp" for tools, yard implements, and my Harley. There's a house width car port at the end of the house under which I'll park my truck. I used to buy the high protein generic TSC dog food in the 55lb bag that they have as end caps stacked on pallets. Can't even remember the name... I think it's "Retriever" or something similar. Anyway, I got to reading the label for ingredients and decided I didn't want to go that way anymore.

I'm going to rent an Old Dominion (OD) 28' box trailer, self load/unload. They bring it and drop it at your (my) place (with 2-3 days notice) for 3 business days to load, then transit (3-5 days in my case), then call when it arrives and you have 2 business days to have them deliver it & drop at the new place for 3 business days to unload. You pay the transit charge plus rent linear feet of the box and I'm starting with 17' @$1527.00 (all inclusive) and $29.00 per linear foot I go past that, up to the whole trailer @$1846.00. They provide a loading ramp and a heavy duty (refer) hand truck free. They put up a sealed locking partition behind my stuff then fill the remainder of the trailer with a load of "whatever" is going in that direction to cover cost. A regular mover would be 7-10 grand, Didn't check on U-haul or that sort of rental but expect they would have been in the 1800-2 grand range and I'd have to drive it and pay for gas. Since I also need to drive my truck and trailer, that won't work. PODs was wanting almost 3 grand for a 16' box, Pack Rat didn't have a location near where I'm moving to. They referred me to their version of OD, which is obviously an aftermarket re-sale situation as they wanted almost 2 grand for the same thing as OD offered. I'll pack live ammo, and I don't reload yet (stupid, yeah, I know, but I've saved all my brass for many years for when that time comes), but no propane cylinders or pressurized flammable stuff, or any of my guns, they go with me (along with enough ammo to put them to use should the need arise).

OK, so I finally heard back from my TX REA and the seller's insurance company is going to replace the roof and install proper drip edges. According to the roofer, the chimney is fine, even though there's no drip collar showing and the asphalt shingles go right up against it. Unless it's a double wall chimney (doesn't look like one) IMHO that's a fire hazard. And no drip collar will allow water to run underneath the down hill shingles and be able to contact the wooden roof material. I have the roofers number from my REA to call and express my concerns, but when I called the number, I got a private VM for a guy with a different name than what I was told. I have asked to verify the number and to ensure this can be done before closing but haven't heard back yet.


----------



## Mike CHS

We used a wardrobe box from U-Haul to haul our guns in.  We used clothes on hangars to fill in any open areas and you couldn't really tell what was in them.  We built a secure safe room for all of that kind of thing so we actually moved them ahead of everything else.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I used to buy the high protein generic TSC dog food in the 55lb bag that they have as end caps stacked on pallets. Can't even remember the name... I think it's "Retriever" or something similar. Anyway, I got to reading the label for ingredients and decided I didn't want to go that way anymore.


Retriever:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/retriever-dog-food/

All dry dog foods:
http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dry/all/

Some of what goes into dog food is for humans' benefit. If it were strictly for dogs, it would look like 'yuck' and smell like week old road kill.


----------



## AClark

Sportmix Wholesomes (fish nastiness, lol) is what I'm feeding, not the ultra cheap, but not Taste of the Wild expensive. I had to go look it up as we pour ours into a plastic container and throw the bag away. I just know what bag to buy by color and looks. We used to feed Diamond Naturals but got a bad batch and the smell coming out of the dog with the projectile pure liquid diarrhea was enough that DIamond refunded my money for the bag and we never fed it again. They didn't argue over it which makes me think they might have been aware of a bad batch.

I wrap guns up and lock them in the toolbox of my truck. I don't rely on the standard locks, I have a hasp on my toolbox with a big padlock - seems to keep them pretty secure for what won't fit behind the seat of my truck. Of course my personal carry stays with me.


----------



## NH homesteader

I use Taste of the Wild but it's killing my wallet! Hence cutting the food with meat from our critters. Everything else I've tried has not worked out well for my dog with digestive issues!


----------



## Kusanar

NH homesteader said:


> I use Taste of the Wild but it's killing my wallet! Hence cutting the food with meat from our critters. Everything else I've tried has not worked out well for my dog with digestive issues!


I feed all of mine raw, other than the spoiled house cat that my husband had when we met and doesn't think raw meat is food, and my barn cat because it's just so much easier to feed dry food if you don't have access to a sink... Those 2 eat Taste of the Wild food.


----------



## OneFineAcre

greybeard said:


> Retriever:
> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/retriever-dog-food/
> 
> All dry dog foods:
> http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/dry/all/
> 
> Some of what goes into dog food is for humans' benefit. If it were strictly for dogs, it would look like 'yuck' and smell like week old road kill.


I've seen those reviews
Don't put much stock in them
We feed our LGDs Retriever  High Protein ( Blue Bag ) and the little guy the regular Retriever ( Green Bag)
Most of our goat club feeds the same to their LGDs
My dad ( and myself for years ) have bred amd trained English Setters ( Llewellyn Setters) and I have friends with field trial fox hounds all on Retriever High Protein
My dogs are very healthy


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## Baymule

I buy Victor dog food and I buy canned dog food. The canned dog food is unlabeled. It seems when the factory makes their run, the first cans that go through don't get labels. We buy them at $5.89 a case, the dogs love it. We mix it with their kibble.


----------



## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> I've seen those reviews
> Don't put much stock in them
> We feed our LGDs Retriever  High Protein ( Blue Bag ) and the little guy the regular Retriever ( Green Bag)
> Most of our goat club feeds the same to their LGDs
> My dad ( and myself for years ) have bred amd trained English Setters ( Llewellyn Setters) and I have friends with field trial fox hounds all on Retriever High Protein
> My dogs are very healthy


Dog food advisor is very good IF you know what you are looking for.
The LGD breeds are different.

It also depends on your stock.
Large boned large LGD dogs DO need lower calcium but high protein. It is a balancing act.
My dogs are 135-160 lbs. Some of our pyrs have been 100 lbs by 6 months.
Tiggs our Anatolian male, I did not regulate his calcium intake as I should have and his bones suffered for it. 
He is 160 lbs but his bones grew too fast.

We take a high end feed and feed that to all our pups mixing 2-3 kinds and balancing calcium/fat/protein. We also keep them lean.
Once they hit 6 months- 8 months we start mixing in a lower quality feed with a high end feed and switch it every few months. This prevents food allergies from developing. 

The other side of that is summer they don't eat as well they lose average of 20 lbs from their winter weight to summer weight.
This is normal and they are not utilizing their fat/protein intake. Come fall when it gets cool they will increase in appetite and put on the fat and need the protein because their vacation is over. Then the raw meats (deer, chicken, turkey) come in! 

Poor quality feed and breeding and raising what is suppose to be a "giant" breed is producing smaller and smaller animals. 
This isn't good for the breed.


----------



## babsbag

I buy Natures Domain grain free from Costco for the house dogs and Diamond or Purina for the LGDs. I am looking at a super expensive low cal food for my female LGD and the price is making me wince big time, but she won't eat the cheap low cal crap. Granted, I want her to lose weight but starving her isn't the answer. 

My cats are on Nature's Variety and it is $$$ too. But I have one kitty that had horrible IBS and we tried all the usual stuff and nothing worked. A month on this food and he is cured.  The high protein was the ticket.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> Dog food advisor is very good IF you know what you are looking for.
> The LGD breeds are different.
> 
> It also depends on your stock.
> Large boned large LGD dogs DO need lower calcium but high protein. It is a balancing act.
> My dogs are 135-160 lbs. Some of our pyrs have been 100 lbs by 6 months.
> Tiggs our Anatolian male, I did not regulate his calcium intake as I should have and his bones suffered for it.
> He is 160 lbs but his bones grew too fast.
> 
> We take a high end feed and feed that to all our pups mixing 2-3 kinds and balancing calcium/fat/protein. We also keep them lean.
> Once they hit 6 months- 8 months we start mixing in a lower quality feed with a high end feed and switch it every few months. This prevents food allergies from developing.
> 
> The other side of that is summer they don't eat as well they lose average of 20 lbs from their winter weight to summer weight.
> This is normal and they are not utilizing their fat/protein intake. Come fall when it gets cool they will increase in appetite and put on the fat and need the protein because their vacation is over. Then the raw meats (deer, chicken, turkey) come in!
> 
> Poor quality feed and breeding and raising what is suppose to be a "giant" breed is producing smaller and smaller animals.
> This isn't good for the breed.


Curious
You didn't say what you feed your dogs so I'm curious about that
ANd how many LGDs you have and your monthly feed cost?


----------



## NH homesteader

@Baymule I tried to do that.  Every single time I mix canned food  with dry,  my Alano eats it so fast it comes right back up.  Every.  Single.  Time. She's a hog. 


And I don't do raw because I don't want raw meat around with a 3 year old. I do cook meat for the dogs though.  And feed it to them separate from their kibble! Dogs...


----------



## Baymule

@NH homesteader your Alano isn't a hog, she's a vacuum cleaner!


----------



## Latestarter

Right now Mel gets a ~50/50 mix of:
*Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (Dry)  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/earthborn-holistic-primitive-natural/ *

Mixed with one of the two choices below:
*Purina Savor Adult Shredded Blend Beef and Rice  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-pro-plan-savor/ *rated 2.5 stars* *
*Purina One SmartBlend True Instinct with Real Turkey and Venison  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-one-smartblend-true-instinct/*
Rated 2 stars 

Now having gone in and read about them (Purina), neither will be on the menu any longer. Purina is such a "trusted" name, which just goes to show that you can't trust any business...   you need to verify. At least they're not as bad as some of the other "popular" big name dog foods.  

I generally buy both bags at the same time at TSC as wally world doesn't carry the more expensive Earthborn products. I just checked with wally online and they DO offer 6 pound packages of the Earthborn, for $19.54 ($3.28/lb!! Sold & Shipped by "We The People" <--really?). I buy it at TSC in the 28 pound bag for ~$52.00 or $1.86/lb.

Was considering Merrick or Blue (Blue buffalo/wilderness/etc), but just checked the cost of that and it's even higher than the Earthborn  So after further research, I believe I want to keep a 5 star rated dry like the earthborn, and mix it with nothing less than a 4 star that's reasonably priced. So here's what I've found that I can get at TSC For the high cost/high quality food I can go with:

*Taste of the Wild High Prairie Formula  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/taste-of-the-wild-dog-food-dry/*  5 star $49/30 lb or $1.63/lb
*Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (Dry)  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/earthborn-holistic-primitive-natural/*  5 star $52/28lb $1.86/lb

And then for the 4 star to mix with it I can go with:

*4Health Chicken and Rice Adult  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/4health-dog-food-dry/* 4 star $35/35lb ~$1/lb
*Rachael Ray Nutrish Zero Grain Turkey and Potato  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/rachael-ray-nutrish-zero-grain-dog-food/*  4 star $42/28lb or $1.50/lb

Since I'm a member of TSC, they have told me that they'll price match. So If I bring in an online price document or sale paper, they should match it saving me a little bit. I just found out some more interesting information... The 4Health brand is owned by TSC. It's packaged by Diamond, which could be good or bad since their dog food ranks anywhere from ~ 2.5 to 4.5 with most falling in the 3-3.5 range.

I've now dedicated too many hours to this post and it's 2am


----------



## greybeard

> Purina is such a "trusted" name, which just goes to show that you can't trust any business..



Purina, is not the trusted Ralston Purina/Checkerboard Square company it once was, but neither is it the devil incarnate either. It offers products people are going to purchase--nothing more, nothing less. As has been evidenced in more than one dog food thread on these kinds of boards, quality costs more, and the plain truth is, most people either just aren't willing or able to pay for the higher quality dog foods, just as we often don't  buy the highest quality foods for ourselves.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/188670/top-dry-dog-food-brands-in-the-united-states/


----------



## NH homesteader

Taste of the Wild is awesome. My dogs also loved the Rachel Ray food but my husband says it has a chemical that gives dogs cancer.  So I went back to my expensive food.


----------



## greybeard

NH homesteader said:


> T My dogs also loved the Rachel Ray food but my husband says it has a chemical that gives dogs cancer.  So I went back to my expensive food.


Most likely, the caramel coloring. By weight alone, it is the world's most widely consumed food ingredient--humans and other species.



> Next, *caramel* is a natural coloring agent made by caramelizing carbohydrates. It’s used by pet food manufacturers to impart a golden brown tint to the finished product.
> 
> However, the concentrated version of this ingredient commonly known as *caramel coloring* has been more recently considered controversial and found to cause cancer in laboratory animals.2
> 
> In any case, even though caramel is considered safe by the FDA, we’re always disappointed to find any *added coloring* in a pet food.


----------



## NH homesteader

Hmm I'll ask him. He has told me a million times and I just can't remember!


----------



## Southern by choice

Like I said before Dog Food Advisor is great IF you know what you are looking for.

The down side to DFA is that we are now in a culture of making dogs humans.
"Fido" now needs to be fed blah blah blah. 
No this no that...

The reality is dogs ARE SCAVENGERS. They are also opportunistic feeders. 

DAG has issues where "meal" is used, ground up parts are used etc.

I laugh at this because the nature of a dog is not to take the choice breast meat off a chicken or any other animal. It is the sinew, it is the feet, head, bones, organs etc. 
Dogs like to eat dead things.

As far as grains. all this no grain stuff is causing quite a bit of issues in our dogs as well.

There are a combination of factors that relate to allergies, sensitivities, skin dermatitis, growth and a whole list of other factors... Spaying (neutering to a lessor degree) plays a huge role. De-sexing in this country is how we "spay/neuter" and that affects the endocrine systems. The endocrine system impacts the whole dog. Removing the endocrine system from a dog has overwhelming affects. 

Many in the vet canine world blame feed for many issues instead of looking at the real issue. Spay and neuter. 

@OneFineAcre  you asked what I feed... I had it posted somewhere but it depends on the stage of development for the dog. 
As pups when starting the weaning process... we use Earthborn -two kinds mixed then we add a third. Pups are weighed every 3-4 days in the first week they weekly thereafter. Their feed is adjusted for protein, fat, calcium, calories according to how they are growing. With Callies litter we spent 800 month on feed.

As the dogs are approaching 4 months we eliminate one of the Earthborn and mix in a secondary feed. At 8 months or so we start crossing in different feeds every few bags.

You don't want to know what we spend on feed. 
I don't want to know what we spend on feed. 
We also supplement with raw depending on the season.

Pups- the balanced feeding of pups is critical for their whole future. You get one chance to do it. 

The issue with PROTEIN- 
So , higher protein is good but excessive protein is not. LGD's do not need the level of protein that herding dogs or high drive dogs need. Especially not year round. 

@OneFineAcre  the brand you use I believe is 27% protein which is a good protein level. I wouldn't consider that High though. 
30-32% is High and one feed I know of is 37%. Even my high drive GSD couldn't do 37% but does great on 30. The LGD's only need the higher protein during the busy seasons. 

LGD's also if being fed properly will not eat everyday in the warm months. One, they do not have the activity level and are not ultilizing the energy. Two, they are still somewhat primitive and primitive dogs will fast themselves and regulate. Fall and winter the dogs increase in intake as the protein and CARBS are necessary for bulk. They need weight as well as energy they are more active on the job as well as needing it for warmth. Hence the 20 lb average difference in summer /winter weights. Smaller dogs will have less extreme fluctuation.  10 lbs for smaller dogs.

Protein is an interesting factor- Excessive protein cause issues with uric acid. Generally excess is eliminated BUT too much and the body cannot which causes a host of other issues. In dogs it affects the kidneys and the liver. It also causes stones and crystals.  
Gout in humans. 

The following are all feeds we use in combination. Remember we also do raw mixed in at different times of year. Deer, chicken, turkey, goat when we have it. 

Earthborn large breed ( i really like), Diamond ( i don't like it, neither do the dogs but they don't get to choose ) Pro Plan, Diamonds extreme Athlete, SS Active  27%.

Keep in mind The LGD breeds are not a "housepet type dog". 

D and Badgers Grandsire lived to just shy of 16 was in the field the whole time... he lived off SS feed his whole life. 
The other side of that is their breeder, everytime she sees the dogs says, " how on earth did those dogs come from mine? they are huge!"

The right diet as pups, along with proper deworming will allow the dog to reach it's full potential.


----------



## Bruce

How much would the Rachael Ray dog food cost if there wasn't a celebrity to pay?


----------



## NH homesteader

It's actually not that expensive


----------



## Bruce

Interesting on the sales stats @greybeard 

Totals to 63.7%, 26.1% (of 100%) is labeled Purina.



NH homesteader said:


> It's actually not that expensive



But how much would it cost if they didn't have to send money Rachel's way every time they sell a bag of dog food? A non value add "intermediary". I wonder (but do not need to know) how many people buy it BECAUSE her name is on it. Like Trump getting money any time his name is attached to anything that he has NO financial or other interest in.


----------



## NH homesteader

I bought it despite the fact her name was on it,  lol.  I think she donates most of the money to her rescue...  I'll have to double check that.  Yes I'm sure that she still gets plenty of benefits from that


----------



## OneFineAcre

I think I'll just stick with what has worked for years.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Right now Mel gets a ~50/50 mix of:
> *Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (Dry)  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/earthborn-holistic-primitive-natural/ *
> 
> Mixed with one of the two choices below:
> *Purina Savor Adult Shredded Blend Beef and Rice  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-pro-plan-savor/ *rated 2.5 stars* *
> *Purina One SmartBlend True Instinct with Real Turkey and Venison  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/purina-one-smartblend-true-instinct/*
> Rated 2 stars
> 
> Now having gone in and read about them (Purina), neither will be on the menu any longer. Purina is such a "trusted" name, which just goes to show that you can't trust any business...   you need to verify. At least they're not as bad as some of the other "popular" big name dog foods.
> 
> I generally buy both bags at the same time at TSC as wally world doesn't carry the more expensive Earthborn products. I just checked with wally online and they DO offer 6 pound packages of the Earthborn, for $19.54 ($3.28/lb!! Sold & Shipped by "We The People" <--really?). I buy it at TSC in the 28 pound bag for ~$52.00 or $1.86/lb.
> 
> Was considering Merrick or Blue (Blue buffalo/wilderness/etc), but just checked the cost of that and it's even higher than the Earthborn  So after further research, I believe I want to keep a 5 star rated dry like the earthborn, and mix it with nothing less than a 4 star that's reasonably priced. So here's what I've found that I can get at TSC For the high cost/high quality food I can go with:
> 
> *Taste of the Wild High Prairie Formula  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/taste-of-the-wild-dog-food-dry/*  5 star $49/30 lb or $1.63/lb
> *Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (Dry)  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/earthborn-holistic-primitive-natural/*  5 star $52/28lb $1.86/lb
> 
> And then for the 4 star to mix with it I can go with:
> 
> *4Health Chicken and Rice Adult  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/4health-dog-food-dry/* 4 star $35/35lb ~$1/lb
> *Rachael Ray Nutrish Zero Grain Turkey and Potato  http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/rachael-ray-nutrish-zero-grain-dog-food/*  4 star $42/28lb or $1.50/lb
> 
> Since I'm a member of TSC, they have told me that they'll price match. So If I bring in an online price document or sale paper, they should match it saving me a little bit. I just found out some more interesting information... The 4Health brand is owned by TSC. It's packaged by Diamond, which could be good or bad since their dog food ranks anywhere from ~ 2.5 to 4.5 with most falling in the 3-3.5 range.
> 
> I've now dedicated too many hours to this post and it's 2am



Now what is it exactly that Purina did?  I haven't seen that.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Bruce said:


> Interesting on the sales stats @greybeard
> 
> Totals to 63.7%, 26.1% (of 100%) is labeled Purina.
> 
> 
> 
> But how much would it cost if they didn't have to send money Rachel's way every time they sell a bag of dog food? A non value add "intermediary". I wonder (but do not need to know) how many people buy it BECAUSE her name is on it. Like Trump getting money any time his name is attached to anything that he has NO financial or other interest in.



I'd be willing to bet that Purina makes a lot of the Private Label ones.
I'm pretty sure they make the Retriever for Tractor Supply.


----------



## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> I think I'll just stick with what has worked for years.



Everyone should do what works for them however, the LGD breeds are quite different. I know I cannot feed my LGD's what I feed my GSD. They don't use the energy and long term that is health issues waiting. The critical stage is the growth stage in the first 8 months. We still do monitoring til 18 months. 

As far as Mel, I would be careful. Sounds like you cook for him because he isn't eating his kibble. That is actually normal, hot , no use of energy why would he eat?

All this protein can cause issues for Mel. He is not a working dog and isn't utilizing the food. 

Our house LGD(retired) uses little energy. He eats very little and still skips food when he doesn't feel like eating.


----------



## babsbag

My LGds will eat some Diamond food and stare at other Diamond food like I am trying to poison them.  The love the Purina shredded stuff. My house dogs get a different Nature's Domain every month and they seem to like them all, but they really prefer cat food.


----------



## Latestarter

Southern by choice said:


> Everyone should do what works for them however, the LGD breeds are quite different. I know I cannot feed my LGD's what I feed my GSD. They don't use the energy and long term that is health issues waiting. The critical stage is the growth stage in the first 8 months. We still do monitoring til 18 months.
> 
> As far as Mel, I would be careful. Sounds like you cook for him because he isn't eating his kibble. That is actually normal, hot , no use of energy why would he eat?
> 
> All this protein can cause issues for Mel. He is not a working dog and isn't utilizing the food.
> 
> Our house LGD(retired) uses little energy. He eats very little and still skips food when he doesn't feel like eating.



I don't force Mel to eat... He eats as and when he feels the need. I just make it available for him. I'm not "cooking for him" except in one situation, and that's all these eggs I have to get rid of. My main egg buyer moved back east, and they pile up quick. Not going waste them. And though I do still sell some and give some away, If I can use them as part of Mel's diet, that is far better. The fact that he tends to eat more when I add protein makes sense to me... Like you said, dogs are scavengers, they eat what they feel they need when and if they can get it. I've paid very close attention to everything you've shared before and after getting Mell WRT LGDs and their food. 

Anyway... seems dog food can become a "hot topic of discussion" like just about anything else 

SO, I just got off the phone with the owner of the roofing company that's replacing the roof on the potential new home. He assured me that the chimney is a triple wall chimney so there's no issue with the shingles being right up against it, and no issue with potential fires from the roof being against it. He also told me that he'll be removing the turbine vents on the roof and re-decking those holes and installing a ridge vent instead for better attic cooling. And though it's not required, it is recommended, so he'll be installing drip edge all around. He'll be doing a complete scrape of the roof to check the decking, and will be giving a transferable 5 year warranty as well. I called my REA and told him I'm satisfied and good to go. I was told the roof will be done before closing with no problem.


----------



## Southern by choice

LOL Latestarter... Badger- we don't cook for him but you know how it is... if it isn't up on top of the fridge or closed in the oven it is gone. He has no shame. 
I carried my burger out on the couch late last night. Had some people her with goats to evaluate... got in late.
I was sooooo hungry.
Badger climbs up beside me with the "mommy are you going to give me that look"... I said Badge are you hungry?
He did his real alert look...  saying "yes mommy"
I said ok baby, but you can't have my burger... I'll get you your food

Then he did that think that Pyrenees are famous for- he turned on the big brown sad eyes look - you know with a tough of sadness, mopiness, i am so dejected look

Yeah- I gave him my burger. 

My DH is horrible about it too. Badger lays his head down on the table- YES the table   and looks at "daddy"... Daddy is a sucker cuz Badge is "his" dog. NONE of the other dogs would even DREAM of doing these things.


----------



## babsbag

Badger OWNS you.


----------



## Latestarter

Badger is one awesome dog... Gotta say.


----------



## Latestarter

So, pretty much as I expected, the appraisal didn't come in. Not near as bad as it could have been... Just got a call from my REA and it came in at $252K on sales price of $275K. About 8% lower than sales price. Now, I didn't expect to get the sales price, but did expect a little higher than that. My REA and his team are going to work to try and get more value from the appraiser, but haven't actually received the report yet. They'll work on that over the weekend and get to hammering on Monday.

I explained to my REA that I knew the buyers bid it up to 275 expecting/knowing/hoping the appraisal wouldn't come in that high, and they'd never have to pay that. They just wanted to knock everybody else out of contention and make sure their contract offer was accepted over all the others. In the final (both actually) contract they said they'd pay up to 2K over appraised value. In the original contract they offered 250K and were doing 16K down. In the final offer that I accepted, they were just doing the 3% down. So I know they can meet the 3% FHA down payment requirement with room to spare.  As I told my REA, if we can at least get value to $260K, I can ask the buyers to pay $5K vice 2K over appraised value and get what the next 2 highest bidders had offered to purchase it for; $264K and 265K respectively. They should be happy as they'll be paying 10K less than they offered. I'll be happy as I'll be getting what I perceive the real sales value to be.

So once more, it's a waiting game.

Edit to add: 





Southern by choice said:


> Daddy is a sucker cuz Badge is "his" dog. NONE of the other dogs would even DREAM of doing these things.



Ummmm, so correct me if I'm wrong,  but I seem to remember a certain "D", that is DW's dog, doing the salsa on the dining room table over apples.... Justsayin    So "none" might be stretching things just a bit Hehehe


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Latestarter

It's OK though... exceptional dogs are allowed exceptions to rules... just the way life goes for dog lovers


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> .....
> 
> SO, I just got off the phone with the owner of the roofing company that's replacing the roof on the potential new home. He assured me that the chimney is a triple wall chimney so there's no issue with the shingles being right up against it, and no issue with potential fires from the roof being against it. He also told me that he'll be removing the turbine vents on the roof and re-decking those holes and installing a ridge vent instead for better attic cooling. And though it's not required, it is recommended, so he'll be installing drip edge all around. He'll be doing a complete scrape of the roof to check the decking, and will be giving a transferable 5 year warranty as well. I called my REA and told him I'm satisfied and good to go. I was told the roof will be done before closing with no problem.



Sounds very good Joe. Not ripping off the old roof is just begging for reduced life in the new roof. AND you can't see what bad stuff might be lurking under there. Ridge AND soffit vents? If you don't have the soffits there is no air to replace the air that should be going out the ridge vent.  And who WOULDN'T want drip edges? Another way to make the roof/fascia boards last longer.



Southern by choice said:


> LOL Latestarter... Badger- we don't cook for him but you know how it is... if it isn't up on top of the fridge or closed in the oven it is gone. He has no shame.
> I carried my burger out on the couch late last night. Had some people her with goats to evaluate... got in late.
> I was sooooo hungry.
> Badger climbs up beside me with the "mommy are you going to give me that look"... I said Badge are you hungry?
> He did his real alert look...  saying "yes mommy"
> I said ok baby, but you can't have my burger... I'll get you your food
> 
> Then he did that think that Pyrenees are famous for- he turned on the big brown sad eyes look - you know with a tough of sadness, mopiness, i am so dejected look
> 
> Yeah- I gave him my burger.



How did you enjoy Badger's dog food??



Latestarter said:


> So, pretty much as I expected, the appraisal didn't come in. Not near as bad as it could have been... Just got a call from my REA and it came in at $252K on sales price of $275K. About 8% lower than sales price. Now, I didn't expect to get the sales price, but did expect a little higher than that. My REA and his team are going to work to try and get more value from the appraiser, but haven't actually received the report yet. They'll work on that over the weekend and get to hammering on Monday.



Good idea, you never know what all the appraiser saw and didn't see. Different but ... many years ago I lived in a house that was built just before the one next to it. Guy built mine, lived in it while building the other then sold both, they were nearly exact copies of each other. 

Come reassessment time the city had my house worth MORE than the one next door. I had a 1.5 car garage, they had a 2 car. I had a brick chimney and a woodstove, they had a fireplace. The assessment said I had a fireplace and they did not. I objected and of COURSE they denied it out of hand, I doubt they even read what I had written. I bet they get rid of most of the "complaints" that way. I had to go to the "one on one" session. Guess what, they lowered the valuation on my house.


----------



## farmerjan

As a current dog non-owner;  my german shepard passed away several years ago and when I moved couldn't have a dog so haven't replaced her yet; I will as soon as I  retire and have time to spend with a dog again;  I am somewhat appalled at the "giving in" to the dogs.  Seriously.  I am not criticizing you as people, but my dog would no more take something off the table, nor was she allowed in the kitchen when we were eating, nor was she ever fed from the table or allowed to beg when I was eating.  None of my dogs over the years did.  They often got scraps, in their dish, extra eggs  milk, whatever...but ALWAYS in their appointed place to eat.  If I was out somewhere, and she was with me on the truck, she ate when I was done.  I would share with her, when I was done.  Mostly she got fed before me at home, I always believed that the animals deserved to eat before me because they couldn't get their own.  And she would look at me with such a hopeful expression and I would say go lay down til we are done and she would until I was done then I would always give her something, even if it was a dog biscuit.   She never stole food and would look at me if I gave her something that she might not ordinarily get and I would say, "go ahead it's yours" and she would  gladly eat it.  It didn't matter, if I told her no, she would sit and wait for me to do whatever.  I loved her beyond belief and was heartbroken when she passed away, had cancer and lost her at nearly 13 years old.  She was rescued from a family that "GOT TIRED OF HER"  and since I had always expressed interest in her at the farm, when they said if I wanted her to come get her,  I got in my truck right then.  She was barely 4 yrs old.   She slept next to the bed, never on it, and loved to go on the truck no matter where I was going.  Emmy was a big white german shepard, weighed nearly 110 and was the sweetest dispositioned animal there was; BUT because of her size, and this HUGE doggy grin that showed lots of teeth, people were petrified of her and that was fine with me.  She loved kids, let them crawl all over her & pull her tail and ears or whatever;  but I don't know what she would have done if someone walked in my house in the middle of the night.  Never had to find out.  Still miss her.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry you lost her, but what a great life you shared with her huh? I couldn't live without a dog. Just gotta have one.

Hey Bruce, there are huge gable vents and I believe soffit vents as well. He said that the roof ridge vent would work much better than the turbines at pulling the hot air out the top. The turbines only pull to their level and everything above that just cooks.


----------



## NH homesteader

Or two...  Or three...


----------



## Southern by choice

farmerjan said:


> I am somewhat appalled at the "giving in" to the dogs. Seriously. I am not criticizing you as people, but my dog would no more take something off the table, nor was she allowed in the kitchen when we were eating, nor was she ever fed from the table or allowed to beg when I was eating. None of my dogs over the years did.



I raised GSD's most of my life. Highly trained GSD's. I could leave 3 of my dogs in my car with a steak and cheese unwrapped on the dash and they would never touch it NEVER. 
So you don't have the whole picture.
@farmerjan  NONE of my dogs do anything like beg or steal etc... I am a trainer. However, we simply make certain exceptions for our retired LGD's. They are different. 

I miss my old girl too. My current GSd is great but "quirky" mostly from her background. Schutzhund training with a not good trainer. 
In two years I will be getting another GSD! Can't wait!


----------



## farmerjan

Latestarter said:


> I don't force Mel to eat... He eats as and when he feels the need. I just make it available for him. I'm not "cooking for him" except in one situation, and that's all these eggs I have to get rid of. My main egg buyer moved back east, and they pile up quick. Not going waste them. And though I do still sell some and give some away, If I can use them as part of Mel's diet, that is far better. The fact that he tends to eat more when I add protein makes sense to me... Like you said, dogs are scavengers, they eat what they feel they need when and if they can get it. I've paid very close attention to everything you've shared before and after getting Mell WRT LGDs and their food.
> 
> Anyway... seems dog food can become a "hot topic of discussion" like just about anything else
> 
> SO, I just got off the phone with the owner of the roofing company that's replacing the roof on the potential new home. He assured me that the chimney is a triple wall chimney so there's no issue with the shingles being right up against it, and no issue with potential fires from the roof being against it. He also told me that he'll be removing the turbine vents on the roof and re-decking those holes and installing a ridge vent instead for better attic cooling. And though it's not required, it is recommended, so he'll be installing drip edge all around. He'll be doing a complete scrape of the roof to check the decking, and will be giving a transferable 5 year warranty as well. I called my REA and told him I'm satisfied and good to go. I was told the roof will be done before closing with no problem.





Southern by choice said:


> I raised GSD's most of my life. Highly trained GSD's. I could leave 3 of my dogs in my car with a steak and cheese unwrapped on the dash and they would never touch it NEVER.
> So you don't have the whole picture.
> @farmerjan  NONE of my dogs do anything like beg or steal etc... I am a trainer. However, we simply make certain exceptions for our retired LGD's. They are different.
> 
> I miss my old girl too. My current GSd is great but "quirky" mostly from her background. Schutzhund training with a not good trainer.
> In two years I will be getting another GSD! Can't wait!


Okay, guess I missed it.  Just hate to see  anyone have an animal that is so spoiled that they take over the whole shebang.  Have had to deal with some over the years and it's miserable for everyone when an animal runs the show.  And I made exceptions for Emmy when she started to get sick before they figured out what was wrong, and then did everything I could for her  while trying to make her life as good as possible at the end.


----------



## farmerjan

Latestarter said:


> So, pretty much as I expected, the appraisal didn't come in. Not near as bad as it could have been... Just got a call from my REA and it came in at $252K on sales price of $275K. About 8% lower than sales price. Now, I didn't expect to get the sales price, but did expect a little higher than that. My REA and his team are going to work to try and get more value from the appraiser, but haven't actually received the report yet. They'll work on that over the weekend and get to hammering on Monday.
> 
> I explained to my REA that I knew the buyers bid it up to 275 expecting/knowing/hoping the appraisal wouldn't come in that high, and they'd never have to pay that. They just wanted to knock everybody else out of contention and make sure their contract offer was accepted over all the others. In the final (both actually) contract they said they'd pay up to 2K over appraised value. In the original contract they offered 250K and were doing 16K down. In the final offer that I accepted, they were just doing the 3% down. So I know they can meet the 3% FHA down payment requirement with room to spare.  As I told my REA, if we can at least get value to $260K, I can ask the buyers to pay $5K vice 2K over appraised value and get what the next 2 highest bidders had offered to purchase it for; $264K and 265K respectively. They should be happy as they'll be paying 10K less than they offered. I'll be happy as I'll be getting what I perceive the real sales value to be.
> 
> So once more, it's a waiting game.
> 
> Edit to add:
> 
> Ummmm, so correct me if I'm wrong,  but I seem to remember a certain "D", that is DW's dog, doing the salsa on the dining room table over apples.... Justsayin    So "none" might be stretching things just a bit Hehehe



I guess I just don't understand the real estate market out there, but if they were bidding it up so you would accept their offer, I don't see why you would then tie it to the appraisal????  I know you wanted a "sure sale" but I would have just said that you had 2 bids of 265 so that would be the minimum price you would accept....Around here the buyer always offers less and then they counter back and forth until the parties reach an agreed on price, or not as the case may be....if they wanted it that bad to offer more then you should get more .period..


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> Like I said before Dog Food Advisor is great IF you know what you are looking for.


Dog Food Advisor is not great because their methodology is completely flawed  if you can even call what they do a methodology and the fact of who pays them
Yes they get paid 
Not to hijack @Latestarter thread so maybe start. another


----------



## Mini Horses

Is any personal property being "sold with" the house?  If so, you may make that a separate purchase for cash above the loan.  Some loans tie value/loan ratio & won't go over, etc., or give loan when buyer openly does.  Many mowers are several thousand. Same with such things a water treatment units, appliances and so on.   

Just a thought for valuation -- to increase what appraiser considerations allow to be included.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah, lets not fight over dog food please, at least not on my thread.  Thanks. again. one of those subjects never expected to start a battle.


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> Yeah, lets not fight over dog food please, at least not on my thread.  Thanks. again. one of those subjects never expected to start a battle.



Sorry LS I didn't know we were fighting over anything.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Not fighting here either ?
When we had our pups I asked Southern about food
I fed them based on what she said
Not necessarily what she fed
Changing the subject
What did you cook from your freezer tonight??


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> Sorry LS I didn't know we were fighting over anything.


He's a moderator now
Got to keep us from arguing


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Latestarter

OK, any more from you two and I'm putting you in BYH jail!


----------



## Latestarter

Well, everything you say is basically true Jan. However out here it's a seller's market right now and prices are skyrocketing. They really wanted the house so they bid more than it was really worth, knowing that nobody in their "right mind" would out bid them (what they did was smart, but not logical). Since they are doing an FHA loan, the lender will not do a loan for more than 97% (3% down payment required) of the appraised value, and because it's a govt backed loan, I can't "force" them to pay what they bid. It's the way contracts are worded.

Anyway, since it's a FHA loan, it requires an FHA appraiser do the appraisal, ordered by the lender, paid for by the buyer. After what happened in the big (manufactured) mortgage and housing crash, appraisers are completely unwilling to stick their necks out and appraise something higher than what they see has already sold of similar properties (comparables or comps). Obviously, their always has to be a "first" sale that goes above what's already been sold, but it will almost never be a govt backed loan sale, that sets the higher value. It will either be a cash sale or a private loan sale. Just the nature of the beast.

So essentially, I bought this place at $162K in Oct 2013, and that was on a purchase contract of $175K. It was a VA (govt backed) loan. I did 100% VA financing because I'd been recovering from a divorce, credit issues, a foreclosure (yes I lost my home in the big crash), lack of funds, and to use my VA benefit. There's no way I could have come up with the difference to pay in cash. I needed to buy a place to re-establish my credit, which was right at the precipice, and my landlord had cancelled the lease. The appraisal came in ~7% lower than the agreed to sales price. Today, the market has changed, but the buyer is doing an FHA (govt backed) loan, so again the appraised value came in 8% below agreed sales price. Just the way it goes sometimes. The thing is, if it was a cash buyer, the agreed sales price would be what it is. But when there's a lender involved, and even more so if it's govt backed (indicates the buyer doesn't have the funds/credit/ or is trying to take advantage of the lower costs/rate for the VA), as a seller, if you want the contract to go to close, you pretty much have to agree to that stipulation. No lender will loan anyone more than what they believe they can reasonably expect to get back if the loan defaults. And as a general rule, no buyer is going to want to or willingly pay more than what a licensed, experienced appraiser says it's worth.

Thanks for the ideas Mini, but that's covered... In the contract, they agreed to pay up to 2K over appraisal as I'm leaving the lawn tractor/mower and the washer/dryer.None of those items is "new" and 2K would more than cover their value.

As for my freezer meal this evening, it will be for Sunday. I did a take and bake pizza from Papa Murphy's for tonight. I took the turkey out to cook Sunday and a couple of small rib eyes (my last) for dinner tomorrow.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Did you see the beef brisket I cooked labor day ?


----------



## farmerjan

Thanks for explaining the whole sell/appraisal price thing with the gov't loans and all.  With what happened today with the stock market drop, and the hinting of interest rates going up, maybe you do just need to see if the REA can get it upped a little and  GET OUT ASAP.  I know we have ups and downs, but this whole North Korea thing can really get to be a mess and where the h*** will we be.  I for one am trying to get a little more put together just for the security of survival....


----------



## OneFineAcre

In case you missed it
With a brisket the key is low and slow


----------



## Latestarter

Exactly Jan... I need out of here and I'm gettin' while the gettin's good. I needed to find a place where I could be self sufficient and survive in a barter economy if I need to.

I DID see that brisket OFA... and it looked mighty fine! I don't have a smoker and can only do limited long cooking on my present gas grill. I really want to make a smoker or buy one when I'm settled as I love slow cooked pork... Pulled, smoked, ribs, shoulder, you name it! Then I can do a brisket right as well.


----------



## Latestarter

I watch these Kingsford charcoal BBQ cook offs they have on TV, and watch these pros compete. Man, they cook some of their meat for up to 12 hours (or more)! Now that's slow cooking!


----------



## Southern by choice

There is a place down the road from us... actually several... anyway I think a few of these people bought when things were hot... then they put all this $$$$ in to restoring these great old farmhouses on land ... one place they want 795,000. Tax value 236,000. They will NEVER get anywhere near what they are asking unless some sucker with big disposable income buys it.
Another place is same scenario but on ONE acre. They want 500,000+ .  

Our agent sends us listings and properties that fit our criteria ( very hard to find) and the $ difference from 7 miles one way and 10 miles the other way could be *300,000 + difference.* It is crazy!

Hope it all works out for you.

My son is buying a house and he had to walk away from the first one. He may have lost id DD monies and inspection fees but it was worth it. The inspections were pretty extensive and seller wouldn't budge on anything. Not worth it. After house hunting with him I am tired! LOL
But I am up next... hoping it isn't as exhausting!


----------



## farmerjan

I'


OneFineAcre said:


> View attachment 21619 In case you missed it
> With a brisket the key is low and slow


 Now I'm hungry....and I have some pretty good jersey beef still in my freezer.  It's such a pain to do a grill for only 1 person and I don't have a newer kind...just old fashioned charcoal and it isn't worth the time when I don't get home from work until 7 or 8   I'm just too tired.  Maybe I need to invest in a gas type grill that I can just fire up as easy as cooking on the stove in the house....


----------



## Latestarter

I used to be a die hard charcoal cooker... But it just took too long and was too hard to adjust or maintain a certain temp. And if the wind blew, the food got coated in ashes. With the gas grill, I don't have a real smoker's ability to cook low and slow like you can with charcoal, and it's even more difficult to "smoke" anything, but I do have a rotisserie that cooks fabulous meats, and I can soak and wrap wood chips in foil and offset cook so I get some smoke and can keep direct flame off the meats. But the biggest thing is like you said, time. I go out and fire it up, then come back inside to prepare what I'm going to cook. When I bring it out, it's up to temp and ready to go. When I'm done, I don't have to worry about hot coals and fires, I just turn the dial, and no more flame. Grill cools back down in minutes vice hours.


----------



## Latestarter

I hope things fall into place for you soon Southern... I don't think you're going to want to move during winter, and then when spring starts to roll around, you're going to have a bunch of very pregnant animals... Not a good time to stress them out with a move then either... Gosh, really, when IS the best time to move? I mean there's always something going on that's going to need to give...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> Man, they cook some of their meat for up to 12 hours (or more)! Now that's slow cooking!



I'm from Texas (!) and we cook a couple briskets here.  Twelve hours is absolute minimum.  Low and slow.  Start it with smoke  (3 hours minimum) and then after a couple hours wrap that puppy (oops, brisket) in foil and let it go.  You've gotta get up real early to cook a good brisket.  Oh - and don't forget to take the foil off the last hour or so to get a good 'crust' on the meat.

Lots of folks use mesquite or oak - but I prefer a fruit wood.  Apple is good - but pear is absolutely exquisite!


----------



## Latestarter

Pear? Really? Never would have thought to use that, but then it is a sweet fruit...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Found that out when we had to cut down a couple trees to put in a new septic system.... miss the trees, but they sure made great brisket/ribs!


----------



## OneFineAcre

frustratedearthmother said:


> I'm from Texas (!) and we cook a couple briskets here.  Twelve hours is absolute minimum.  Low and slow.  Start it with smoke  (3 hours minimum) and then after a couple hours wrap that puppy (oops, brisket) in foil and let it go.  You've gotta get up real early to cook a good brisket.  Oh - and don't forget to take the foil off the last hour or so to get a good 'crust' on the meat.
> 
> Lots of folks use mesquite or oak - but I prefer a fruit wood.  Apple is good - but pear is absolutely exquisite!


It's not called crust
It's called bark


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> I used to be a die hard charcoal cooker... But it just took too long and was too hard to adjust or maintain a certain temp. And if the wind blew, the food got coated in ashes. With the gas grill, I don't have a real smoker's ability to cook low and slow like you can with charcoal, and it's even more difficult to "smoke" anything, but I do have a rotisserie that cooks fabulous meats, and I can soak and wrap wood chips in foil and offset cook so I get some smoke and can keep direct flame off the meats. But the biggest thing is like you said, time. I go out and fire it up, then come back inside to prepare what I'm going to cook. When I bring it out, it's up to temp and ready to go. When I'm done, I don't have to worry about hot coals and fires, I just turn the dial, and no more flame. Grill cools back down in minutes vice hours.


I have a propane assisted charcoal grill 
Propane lights the charcoal


----------



## Latestarter

So when it's not too hot out, I like to sleep with a fan in the window blowing outside air in. Yesterday evening there was a rather chill wind so I turned the fan off and just left the window open. This morning I got up and though I was warm in bed, my sinuses are acting up and I couldn't breath through my nose so I said to heck with it and got up. Yeah, it isn't even 7am yet ?!?! OK, so I open the front door to allow more air flow, and the back slider and you know what? It's fricken cold! So I look across the way and there's frost on the roof! Under my porch roof the thermometer is reading 42 and my computer is telling me it's 37  When did summer end? I'm sitting here wearing a flannel shirt and fuzzy slippers... Mel's got plenty of energy... He's running all over the back yard. He wants to play. I need to get him  a playmate that he can rough house with. I'm getting too old to be getting "body slammed" by a 130 pound dog.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

OneFineAcre said:


> It's not called crust
> It's called bark



Around these parts, (said with my best texan drawl).... Just kidding...

You are exactly right - when it's got that thick, crispy, crunchy outside/ends it IS bark.  Unfortunately, really good bark gives me terrible indigestion - don't know why.  I love it - but my belly doesn't.

So, even though bark is delish - I don't let my brisket develop a true bark.  Calling it a 'crust' is just my way of differentiating it from a true bark.  

And, now I need to go the freezer and see what I can find to throw on the pit tomorrow.  I can thaw something out, season it with a good rub and it'll be ready for the pit in the morning.


----------



## OneFineAcre

frustratedearthmother said:


> Around these parts, (said with my best texan drawl).... Just kidding...
> 
> You are exactly right - when it's got that thick, crispy, crunchy outside/ends it IS bark.  Unfortunately, really good bark gives me terrible indigestion - don't know why.  I love it - but my belly doesn't.
> 
> So, even though bark is delish - I don't let my brisket develop a true bark.  Calling it a 'crust' is just my way of differentiating it from a true bark.
> 
> And, now I need to go the freezer and see what I can find to throw on the pit tomorrow.  I can thaw something out, season it with a good rub and it'll be ready for the pit in the morning.


And I watch too many cooking shows


----------



## frustratedearthmother

OneFineAcre said:


> And I watch too many cooking shows



I am soooo  guilty of that!


----------



## Hens and Roos

yep cooking show are watched here too!


----------



## farmerjan

Haven't had TV hooked up in over 5 years, won't pay the high cost and an antenna  will maybe get 3 channels here the neighbor says so I do without.  Can't justify 30-60 a month or more for maybe 10-20 hrs that I might get to watch it.  Maybe when I retire I will have time for it.  I do miss some things, but not enough to pay that price of a dish.  I'd stay up and watch it and then never make it to a barn to test cows at 2 a.m.!!!


----------



## Latestarter

So I've been procrastinating, and putting it off, and avoiding the necessity of doing it, and rationalizing that there's still plenty of time... Finally called myself on it today and beat myself into doing it... 

I spent the last 4 hours under the house on my belly and hands and knees crawling, and on my back, working to repair the insulation and sub floor vapor barrier from the two broken water pipes. Thankfully all the insulation around the affected areas had completely dried out. There was however a major lake toward the back on the side where the breaks had happened. So I had to belly crawl under 2 axles to get back there and cut slashes in the ground vapor barrier to allow it to drain to earth. Nice that I'm on almost pure sand, so once the slits were cut, that water started draining straight away. So now all 4 of the repairs the buyer wanted done have been completed. I texted my REA and asked if the buyers trust, or want pictures, or their buddy the home inspector to come back by.

I had purchased one of those head band lights, the brightest they had at Lowes, and it worked great the first time I went under to take stock and estimate what I was going to need before going to buy it.    I also bought one of those plug in high intensity work lights that has it's own little stand and the wire cage over the front to prevent burns. Well when I came back with the materials and started to climb down under, the head lamp wouldn't work.  I was ticked! I'd only used it for like 10 minutes! But I wasn't going back to replace it after climbing back down under there, so I did everything with just the high intensity light. I figured I'd return it later. So after I'm all done and I've climbed out I start looking at it and find how to release the battery cover so open it and re-close it and of course now the head lamp woks just fine.    Doesn't it figure?

Now I won't feel guilty watching football tomorrow  For as cold as it was this morning, it still got up to almost 90 here today, though my computer is saying the high was 82. I have to say the sun felt good after the chill this morning. I'm getting old. Used to really like the cold and not care for the heat. Thinking more and more that TX was the right choice, aside from the great folks I've already met that I'll be calling "neighbor" down there. I got a haircut yesterday and I normally get it cut pretty short, not quite a buzz cut... Anyway, my hair has thinned substantially on top. Not bald, but I'm going to have to go back to wearing ball caps after haircuts when the sun is shining. I hate head-top/scalp sun burns.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah, I don't sleep so well anymore, and it's even worse if I'm laying down. So I spend a lot of time in my recliner when I should be sleeping in a bed. I like to have the "white noise" of the TV in the background. That way I don't have to listen to the voices in my head...   Actually it helps drown out the tinnitus ringing. Now that I mentioned it, both my ears are ringing pretty loud. Most times I can ignore it.


----------



## Baymule

You'll be far enough north that you won't have to deal with lovebugs that hang out along the coast. We went to Livingston Friday for a Mickey Gilley concert and hit lovebugs at Lufkin. They are little black bugs that fly united, hence the name lovebugs. They are extremely acidic, birds won't eat them and they must think exhaust fumes are aphrodisiacs as they swarm the roads and highways. They stick to your automobile and if not removed, they damage the paint. They come out twice a year, spring and fall. I sure don't miss lovebug season!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Sigh....  some years they are absolutely HORRID!  You can't even see through your windshield and have to scrape 'em off with steel wool or something similar.  But, not bad here....yet!


----------



## Latestarter

I remember them from my time in FL. I hated them. Thankfully I was living in northern FL and only traveled to southern FL to visit my folks. So I didn't have to deal with them quite as much. But you gotta drive, so what can you do but scrape them off..


----------



## Latestarter

Turkey came out of the oven ~an hour ago and I've already eaten both wings... My favorite starting place on birds. Rip them babies off and gobble em right down !  Love that crispy golden brown skin and the juicy (fat drenched, I know) meat inside. Next favorite part of the bird is all that luscious dark meat! I'll be starting into that shortly  Gonna munch on some turkey thigh next!    I do need to go to the grocery store though. Pick up a few spuds to mash and have gravy over, and maybe a package of rolls as well as some routine stuff like milk and coffee creamer.


----------



## Latestarter

Dinner was simply marvelous


----------



## Baymule

It sounds delicious!


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I only had to do a little screaming at the TV, but my team managed to pull it out in the end without their #1 & #2 players on the field.  I so hope that Goodel has to hand Robert Kraft, Tom Brady & Bill Belichick the super bowl trophy this coming February.


----------



## Mini Horses

Turkey sounds marvelous!   I love to pull the skin off and consume greasy & all -- and from a nice baked ham  

So, I've heard Coke will clean of those lovebugs....


----------



## Latestarter

Coke will take rust and chrome off a bumper... and we drink the stuff.


----------



## Mike CHS

We haven't found a new team to back now that Peyton has retired and may switch to watching more golf after seeing a few games this year.  

It's hard not to check out the bargains at the grocery but we will get that steer processed in the next couple of months and both of our big freezers are still pretty full.  Things like freezing a couple of quart bags of okra every other day is filling it up faster than we can eat it down.


----------



## Bruce

So ... where do I look to find out why the threads and forums I watch aren't popping up on my alerts??? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. For instance this morning there were 2 for @Mike CHS journal and one for a new LGD thread. But not THIS thread even though there were NINE new posts since I checked it yesterday. But this thread DOES show up sometimes

VERY FRUSTRATING!

Glad that turkey came out well


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce, I find same..........

Mike, freezer2 (?) or can, dehydrate.    Appears there's only 2 humans there...one here...and the entire thing gets out of hand easily when you are in this situation.   Love fresh butcher, love a garden, love to cook but, don't as much with no one to share it.   I do make pots of soup or stews to then freeze in smaller containers for use later.  I've saved time & $$ but, most importantly, kept myself eating well.   Often, I feel like not cooking & these little preps help me to NOT go out or just not eat but snack.

Going thru my mom's stored treasures a while back, I found a box with 8 jars of canned green beans.  She had brought them home from a visit to family in WV.  Lid dated, they were 12 years old .  I wanted the jars, so carefully opened to feed to pigs.  Looking clean and still pretty firm, I sampled them.   NO off taste, could have eaten them but just wanted to test.  A well kept jar is a long term investment.


----------



## Latestarter

I've been experiencing the missed alerts for some time as well Bruce & Mini. I don't know what the cause is... I'll throw a quick post up to support and the site owner in the general section:feedback and see if they can't get it straightened out. What I've taken to doing is up top you'll see a link to "New Posts" and I go there and scan down to see if there are any that are dark/highlighted text, with a blue dot indicating there are posts I haven't read. It will also show my avatar if I've previously posted to the thread, and over on the right it will show a pair of glasses if it's a post I'm watching.


----------



## AClark

Home canned goods are definitely good longer than the USDA suggests! I would just make sure you cook whatever it is well to avoid botulism, since it doesn't taste, smell, or look off at all. I'd have saved the jars too, I have quite a collection of them, all the way back to jars from the 40's that are blue colored, my mom found them in their barn. 
I personally love having home canned goodies for nights I don't want to cook too! 

Late, I didn't know anyone actually preferred the wings, yikes. I like the crispy skin and the dark meat, the rest of it I couldn't care less about. Deep fried turkey has to be my favorite though, not much beats the skin that comes off of those. 
How long do you have left in CO now? I bet you are counting the days, in a way, and dreading it also! I hope you have help with the packing, nothing sucks more than packing up. Unpacking is fun, but packing and moving by yourself sucks.


----------



## Latestarter

LOL you mean there are folks who DON'T love them crispy wings? I mean there are businesses that exist solely because of them! I've never had a deep fried turkey but have seen youtube videos of "exploding" frozen turkeys being dropped into boiling oil! I've also read that eating deep fried turkey is like inviting a heart attack and being able to hear your arteries harden as you eat it   I like deep fried food too much as it is...

Barring anything unforeseen the closing on my sale here is 10 days from today. Haven't ordered the moving truck yet or started packing. I'm a last minute packer. I should be able to get it done in 2 days or less. I really don't have much stuff after multiple moves over the past 15 years, and never hung pictures or anything here, never unpacked the collectibles, etc. It's all still packed. My favorite oldest daughter will be coming for a final visit this weekend, so I'll probably put her to work and pack up the few miscellaneous items I won't need in my final week here. Also get her to help stage a bunch of stuff out to the garage. As far as loading the actual truck, that will be mostly just me. I'll have three days to get it done so shouldn't be too much of a strain.

Actually, my biggest concern is internet connectivity at the new place. I do virtually everything online from correspondence (Email) to banking, insurance, taxes, & paying bills. I know my present provider (Comcast) is not an option where I'm buying, so in addition to losing my Email address of decades, I'm outside city limits/rural, I don't think any cable is even an option. So that means satellite... and phone line... I've been spoiled with high speed internet for so long, that this is going to be a major hurdle for me. And I don't have a laptop so I can go to a free WI-Fi spot and connect. I also have serious concerns with security using those free WiFi connections and sending passwords and the like... pretty scary... I'll have to figure that out after I get there.


----------



## AClark

Cable probably isn't an option, and in TX we have lovely Time Warner Cable - let's just say I have a different name for them saved on my phone contacts and it's not family friendly. They were recently bought out by Charter Comm. They are notorious for over billing and I find almost every month mistakes that I have to call and have them fix. 
You will probably be like my parents, they are too far out for cable, DSL is non-existent. They had dial up for years and years and finally they moved in dish internet. Be careful who you sign with there as they only allot so much and charge for overages, so any streaming devices just aren't going to fly. AT&T U-verse might be available in your area, though it isn't here due to where I live being primarily owned by TWC, you can also try AT&T DSL. It kind of depends on how much of a stickler you are for speed. Places like Wild Blue and Hughes Net...I'd just read the contract very carefully, as I am sure you are aware of but it's like a cell phone contract. Nobody likes a surprise $500 phone bill. 
I think one of the problems with my parents is they are using the ISP email, and the allotment space is 50 MB...can you imagine? It is constantly "over" and I've been troubleshooting it from here on getting it cleaned out. Contacted the ISP and they want more money for a tiny bit more space, and act like the 1GB of cloud space they provide is totally awesome. Hardly, I set my parents up with my server email that I admin and she gets 15 GB of space on the email and an additional 15 GB cloud space - free. The other problem is their customer support sucks and they are not helpful in helping my elderly parents with why their email was like this - I ended up logging on it from here in TX and fixed it myself. They were charging them space for quarantined spam messages! 

I use a desktop primarily, though I do own a laptop, and for the laptop when I don't have a wifi connection I use my cell phone hot spot for wifi. It is slow, but when you have to work from the truck and it's all you have, you work with it.


----------



## Mike CHS

We like but didn't put up any pickled okra this year.  I make a good batch of gumbo and usually when we make it large enough for the neighbors.  We only planted 6 hills but like I said we get a quart every other day.


----------



## Latestarter

So I spent the afternoon calling around trying to figure out internet service at my new place. zero luck so far. no fiber optic cable so no high speed available. No cable so no high speed available. So looks like satellite internet with all their limits, so contacted Hughes Net, they're at capacity there, so no Hughes Net. He recommended I could try dish, but warned me about their severe limits, slow speed, no streaming etc... Too late now but tomorrow I'll be back on the hunt... maybe peoplescom.net with DSL... I'm really running out of options fast. Might have to get a laptop with a wireless keyboard and mouse and start hanging out in coffee shops or mickey D's to use that free wifi...  Not a real happy camper right now.


----------



## NH homesteader

Ugh sorry that stinks.  My internet...  Is a phone with a data connection.  It gets old and I can't do everything but I can do the major stuff.  On my teeny tiny screen. We could get internet,  but I am too cheap for that. Someday .


----------



## Baymule

I'm on Hughes Net and well satisfied with it. A neighbor switched from Excede (horrible-do not use them) to Hughes Net and is happy with them. Same with @Devonviolet .  I was without internet for 7 months and used my phone to get my BYH fix. I even resorted to texting Devonviolet pictures and she posted them for me! 

We have Direct TV and are happy with it. AT&T bought it out and now bundles internet, phone and TV. But AT&T will not service this area for internet, so I don't want their stupid land line. 

Do not even call EarthLink. They are in India and have a nasty habit of cleaning out people's checking accounts. I just love talking to someone with a strong British/Indian accent named "Dave". Yeah, right.


----------



## Baymule

And you really need to get a laptop. I'm on my 3rd one and love them. Kicked back in a recliner next to hubby watching TV is sure better than parked at a desk top.


----------



## babsbag

You might be able to use your comcast email account, ask them. I have been using my earthlink one for 8 years with no earthlink internet service anymore. I pay 6.00 a month for the address but so worth it after 20+ years with the same address.  You have to know how to set it up on your computer but I am sure they will walk you through that.  Internet service was something that was a deciding factor as to where we lived. Try AT&T and their hotspot. I understand that they don't have data limits anymore put it might be $$$. I have a local wireless network company here and I've been very happy with them but obviously that won't work for you since I'm in CA.  Good luck with the search.

BTW, alerts for your thread don't show up for me either.


----------



## Latestarter

I posted to support and nifty on the feedback channel. I posted pics showing exactly what the issue is. Hopefully they can figure it out. Didn't realize it was affecting so many folks. It's turning out a lot are experiencing this issue.


----------



## greybeard

I'll talk to my friend in Yantis an find out who he uses for internet, tho I suspect it is a jetpack (hotspot) that utilizes Verizon or ATT data off a cell tower. (I do the same here using verizon 4G LTE, because of no FO phone lines)
I have a relatively weak signal, CAN watch Youtube vids and news, but have difficulty streaming a full movie on either of our laptops.

Go here, and enter a zipcode:
https://vzwmap.verizonwireless.com/dotcom/coveragelocator/

Not all copper phone lines can carry DSL due to installation of load coils along the route of the line..


----------



## Latestarter

Not sure exactly how that works. I'm with Sprint and a 2 year plan. Would I contact Verizon/ATT and tell them I just want to be able to access the internet through them via a cell hot spot? I just checked Sprint's coverage and it shows where I'll be located as roaming access. I never checked my phone while I was there looking at the property  Verizon is showing 4GLTE there. Already talked at length with AT&T, they said they couldn't help. I'll give verizon a call tomorrow.


----------



## greybeard

Yep--I'm using one of those same devices to post this reply from my laptop. 





It takes the place of a modem for laptop or desktop, but if you currently use a smartphone to get on line, the plan will just give you an access code and passkey #. 
I won't say it is the best option for you because I don't know what is available there, but it works great for general internet use here in the middle of a National Forest. DO ask around a lot before you make a decision.


----------



## babsbag

You might be able to get out of the Sprint contract if you move. You certainly don't want to pay roaming charges for your cell. 

If you can get ATT cell or Verizon cell service you should be able to use their data coverage as well. They basically give you a phone number and a little hotspot device that uses cell service for internet and you connect your computer to it wirelessly. You might need that laptop or a wireless network card in your computer if you don't already have one. I never could get my wireless router to connect to the hotspot but I think that they make some that do. Without the router I couldn't use my printer wirelessly either which was a real problem for me. But my biggest issue was using 15+ gigs of data a month and that was with NO youtube or streaming of anything, plus only me here during the week. I was very happy to find another option.


----------



## babsbag

@greybeard, do you have a data cap?


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## greybeard

Babsbag: Yes--18 GB--above that is just an overage--doesn't cost much for the overage. I am retired, am a news junky, and on the internet a LOT, wife is in nursing school and is on her laptop every night for hours with school related work--we very very rarely go over 18gb. As is the norm nowadays, voice and text for our phones is unlimited. (We do not have 'smart phones'--don't have a need or desire to be 'connected" 24/7)
I could get more data--just don't have a need for it. If you are using 15gb/month with no streaming and not watching any Youtube, I suspect someone else is somehow 'borrowing' some of your bandwidth. 15 GB is a lot of data. Music and radio streaming tho (if you do that) can eat up 10gb. I personally avoid downloading anything not absolutely necessary when possible, and try to keep uploads to a minimum. (data limits work in both directions--up and down)

Latestarter: Here's the reply from my friend in Yantis regarding his service provider:
_We use peoples telephone based in Quitman Texas. They do have some service in Hopkins County notable around Rielly Springs and that area. Our service is pretty good. I think excede is here also._


----------



## AClark

Babs is right, I have gotten out of cell phone contracts before due to not having service where I moved, though if I remember correctly, they required proof that the move was for work and I had to send them a copy of orders to get out of it. Fort Drum has really poor service with Sprint and Tmobile. 
I went contract-less after that. Cricket is cheap and now on AT&T's towers so it has very decent service. I'm using Metro PCS (it's on Tmobile) and it's really spotty here. I'm pretty sure I'm going back to Cricket after this month because of how spotty it is, and we hit roaming a lot being this close to Mexico. The best part about those is that they don't charge you data overages, but they do dial the speed down after you've used up your 5GB.

Grey is also right, that's the exact reason my parents can't get DSL. Not to mention every time a coyote pees on the pole the phone goes out at their house (that's a joke, but it really isn't, their phone line is constantly out). Their phone lines are older than I am. They are using PowerC.net which is run through their local Electric Coop, but it's via satelite. They can't use cell service wifi because cell service at their house is really bad. I either have to stand upstairs or go up to the barn (and stand outside) to get enough of a signal to make a call or send a text. It's nice like that, nobody can bother me out there. 
I don't know what their usage limit is, but my parents don't youtube or anything like that, they barely "do that google thing". 
I used to use Directv for TV but I can't justify spending that much every month to watch TV, not when I have high speed and I barely watch TV as it is. I don't know how their satelite internet is though, but if it's like their TV contracts, definitely beware.


----------



## greybeard

Almost everyone is on AT&T's towers--even as big as Verizon is here they  use AT&T's infrastructure and lease space on their tower.

I think I have stated elsewhere, that one option for a poor signal is a signal booster. Especially true if you have a metal roof. Some internet providers will offer a booster free or at a discount if cell signal in your area is weak--otherwise, you can get one from companies like Wilson. Not cheap, but they work.


----------



## AClark

My bad service is only on Fort Bliss. That's pretty typical of most mil. installations. Lots of dead areas, unfortunately for me, that includes everywhere but my living room, lol. But that is the same across all carriers here, and with the proximity to Mexico we get stuck on roaming quite a bit. Nothing like international charges that you have to call and say "I was on my side of the border!"


----------



## babsbag

@greybeard  We were not doing any downloading or uploading and no music or videos. I was even hesitant to use youTube to watch videos of metal roofing being installed as I didn't want to use the data. It was email and forums like this, I'm not even a Facebook fan. One night I did try to upgrade my stupid smart phone and I used 10 GB of data in one night, and the upgrade failed. The next day I took it to my old job and used their internet. Not sure who could have been using it, there is only one other house within distance and the hotspot was password protected with my password.  We had it for about 6 months and I got tired of policing it so fortunately found another option that is cheaper, faster, and no cap. 

When I complained to AT&T they told me that a hot spot for everyday home use is just not a good idea. But now I hear on TV that they have no data limits, but that be very costly. IDK.

@Latestarter, I hope you find a provider. BYH would miss you.  

Maybe time to start a new business providing WiFi to remote customers. Also, there used to be a satellite company called Wild Blue, you might try them.


----------



## greybeard

As far as I know, Wild Blue is still around, tho they are now part of Viasat, which also owns Excede--Wild Blue may now even be called Excede. Never used them, but I have in the past, heard good things about WB on other cattle boards where remote locations are poorly served.

However.........it don't sound good.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/internet/wild_blue.html


----------



## Latestarter

I've heard some pretty bad stuff about Excede as well. Haven't verified any of it.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have TDS Telcom here  ...  it isn't the most modern technology but we feel lucky considering how far out in the sticks we are.  We had to get a landline for our security system when we first bought since we were here so few days a month.  We splurged and had a 30' mast put up for an antenna that lets us get all the over the air networks and local (Nashville) programming.  Add Netflix to that and we have some decent entertainment . So it winds up being right at $90 for the landline and internet.


----------



## Mini Horses

I have Wild Blue but, through Dish.   No TV stuff, just internet.  Don't watch enough TV to validate cost but, have two of those boxes the gov gave everyone when they made TV channels transmit differently.   Yep, still working.  AND my TV is about 15 yrs old.   One day, I guess I will need a new one and get the flat screen that lets me connect to use as my computer screen, too.

All old?   YES -- and I do not have a smart phone either.     At my farm everything works until it is totally dead!    Works for me.


----------



## Baymule

People's Internet is the gold standard here. Based in Quitman, People's Telephone offers internet. We had them come out and do a test and didn't get a good signal.  Their closest tower is probably 8 miles away, but the trees block the signal. @Latestarter check with them.

http://peoplescom.net/coverage/?cbg_tz=300

http://peoplescom.net/internet-wireless/wireless-coverage/


----------



## farmerjan

Still using a flip phone from 5 or 6 years ago.  It's pretty rugged and I just can't see the high cost of a smart phone until this one dies.  I've read some stuff about Republic wireless and you can go on their website and see if there is any service in your area.  Clark Howard that does all the radio programs about ways to save money, seems to think they are a decent company.  I want a phone that I can "tether" to get my internet.  Don't even fully understand all that (still in the dinosaur age) but that's how one of the farms I milk test for, does all his internet.


----------



## Latestarter

Checked with Peoples... not an option. Though I am in their service area, like most others, they are capped out... at/over capacity. Wild Blue and Excede are the same company. Bad reviews and complaints out the yin yang. Looking like my only viable option for the time being is to sign up with Verizon for their "Jet Pack" service. They told me their maximum package was 14 Gig of data. I told the rep I had someone tell me they had 18 Gig. Regardless... 

I checked with my present provider Comcast & my lowest monthly data usage over the past 3 months was over 100 Gig. The highest was over 150The max data cap for basically any wireless provider is in the 50-60 range, and I haven't found those providers yet. There's virtually no way to get unlimited data as there's nobody to bundle services with. DirecTV is owned by AT&T and though they cover the service area, they are capped out. Since it's so rural I honestly can't see any provider willing to spend the $$ to run fiber optic out there... not enough folks to generate the $$ to pay for it. So, looks like I'll be doing the travel to free WiFi spot more or less regularly.   Oh well... That will give me more time to soak in my jacuzzi...


----------



## babsbag

So you can't get Direct TV either?  If you could you could get unlimited data with ATT.  I never knew Satellite got sold out...I know my wireless that we used was getting full so they just added more bandwidth...shoot, if you got the customers why not pay to put in the hardware to support them.   No DSL either?

Verizon has plans up to 100 GB...for half your income...so I don't know what they were talking about. But who can afford their prices. We were on ATT and able to stay below 20 but I had to watch it constantly. It wasn't fun, but it was doable.


----------



## Latestarter

AT&T like just about everybody else I talked to is at capacity. I can get AT&T  directv, just not internet service. Just tried centurylink and they can't help because it's an AT&T service area.   The cell towers there are at cap (for everyone but the owners of the towers, evidently verizon). There is no FO cable at the street, and I can't find DSL service through a local phone provider. The local phone provider said they are at cap. As I said, my lowest monthly usage over the past 3 months was OVER 100 Gig. I can do dish, but they have 5gig speed max, 12 gig data/month max data of 40gig but 28 gig of that 40 is between 2am and 8am.


----------



## NH homesteader

I don't know what any of this stuff means.. I don't know what a gig is (and dude I'm not very old so I have no excuse).  But it seems odd that it's so hard to find an internet provider.  I live in the middle of nowhere and could get it with one phone call.  What's the deal?


----------



## Baymule

It took me 7 months...... Call relentlessly. Often. Until they know your voice. There will be an opening at some point.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

We have AT&T and live less than a mile from a tower.  Even with that sometimes our service sucks.  AND, we use our hotspots for internet service.  It's not that bad...but it's not great either.  I think we get 35 gigs a month and that's "almost" enough for us.  We usually get a warning a few days before our month is up that we are nearing capacity.  We could bundle with Direct TV and get unlimited and that's being seriously considered at the moment.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> AT&T like just about everybody else I talked to is at capacity. I can get AT&T  directv, just not internet service. Just tried centurylink and they can't help because it's an AT&T service area.   The cell towers there are at cap (for everyone but the owners of the towers, evidently verizon). There is no FO cable at the street, and I can't find DSL service through a local phone provider. The local phone provider said they are at cap. As I said, my lowest monthly usage over the past 3 months was OVER 100 Gig. I can do dish, but they have 5gig speed max, 12 gig data/month max data of 40gig but 28 gig of that 40 is between 2am and 8am.


Just curious....how does one use 100+ gb of data per month?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

greybeard said:


> Just curious....how does one use 100+ gb of data per month?


Kinda wondering that myself...

'Course, Dh and I are only home a few hours before bed....our usage might (almost assuredly will) go up after retirement.


----------



## babsbag

greybeard said:


> Just curious....how does one use 100+ gb of data per month?



I thought my 20 was high.


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## Latestarter

Because I do online gaming. Even if I took that out, I'm online basically all day in one form or another. Also my home phone line is VOIP through my computer.


----------



## Mini Horses

GAMING???   

Boy will that change.   Maybe that's why my tractor loan says it's for a "recreational vehicle" ! ?   Maybe I am only playing...


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah, that's it, playing! Might be playing for a young teen running the tractor... anyone else? probably work.


----------



## NH homesteader

My husband is 35 and he loves playing on tractors.  And skidders... Anything with an engine really. 

My daughter is obsessed with excavators. She can't wait to be old enough to use one.  She is her father's daughter. 

Anyway internet? Total necessity. How else will you show off all your new additions? Goats first right?


----------



## babsbag

You are not going to have time to game once you get all this land and all these animals. Life as you have experienced is coming to an end.  We moved onto our 5 acres 8 years ago, what a life changing event that was.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Because I do online gaming. Even if I took that out, I'm online basically all day in one form or another. Also my home phone line is VOIP through my computer.


VOIP should use so little data as not to even be a blip on the 100gb radar--it takes very little bandwidth to send/receive voice and text. I would be surprised to find it's more than 1-2gb total for your voip use--up and down per month. Rule of thumb for VOIP has always been about 50MB/hour--and that's actual talking. A lot of phone time is really silence on one end or the other--no packets are sent during silence....unless your provider charges for both ends of the call..most do not--just your end.

Most days, I'm on line 6-8 hours. News and information junky, but I never got in to any kind of gaming at all.
A parable:
Years ago, my brother, his young son, myself and my father went to eat at a little restaurant here in town. Dad's Grandson was about 13 and as is usual with kids, he rushed right thru his meal, and then asked my father (Dad was in his 80s then) for a couple of quarters to go play a race car video game in the lobby. My dad dug in his pocket, handed him 4 quarters, and went right back to eating his chicken and dumplings. A little while later, the boy came running back to the table, "I won, I won!! I beat it!!"

Dad asked him:
"Did it give you your quarters back?"
 Answer:
"Well..uh..no."

Dad didn't even look up from his dumplings...."Well you didn't win crap then did you boy?" (but he didn't say "crap")

I never let my nephew forget that day.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

That is perfect!


----------



## Latestarter

Very good, and very true. I haven't "won" anything... But it does provide a distraction.


----------



## Baymule

Well, you won't need a "distraction" any more.  If you're that durned bored, come on over and I'm sure I can find something more productive for you to do.  And when I'm done working your pa-tootie off, I'll feed ya' a good supper.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Yep, once you have goats your world will be changed.
You will long for a day to just sit and do nothing.
Just when it looks like that day is coming up you'll have a sick animal and be running like a mad man.

That 100 will go down to 4


----------



## Latestarter

So I get an Email from my REA at like 3 this afternoon. He has called me and told me to look for it. Because this is a manufactured home the lender wants proof that the title has been "purged" and that the home is permanently "attached" to the land for tax purposes. Now, from the basest point, the title company is going to do a title search. They are also going to do a tax certification to make sure I pay the portion that's mine and they have adequate funds withheld for their new escrow account. When they do this, the tax assessment will clearly state what portion of the tax is for land, and what portion is for the residence... DUH!!! In addition, here is presently a VA mortgage on the property, therefore this was already done once back when I bought it. And it was recorded at that time. Once the house is purged, it can't go back to being a trailer.

So The form requires my signature, notarized. I then have to go to the county seat in Greeley, about an hour & 1/2 away and get the signature of the tax assessor, & the county treasurer, then I have to go to the DMV and have them do a title search to make sure there are no active registry records. (trailers are registered as vehicles and therefore have registry records) The Email informs me that the registry search will take 24-48 hours and when it's complete, the registry will call me to come back to get their signatures. 

And if she (the loan processor for the buyer) doesn't have this form back by Monday, it could delay closing, because it's one of the conditions to close, which is scheduled for Thursday the 22nd. Now her Email doesn't say this, but my REA tells me that she told him that I also need to record this document. The REA told her that typically the title company takes care of that when the record the deed and the note. The processor told him that no, I have to record it. That's NOT in the Email so I'm not going to worry about it.

So Monday, I have a VA doctor appt that's been scheduled for over a month, and was moved to make sure it happened before I moved. It's at 8am, and it's unlikely that I'll be back home before noon. Then Tuesday, the 28' box trailer will be being delivered, I have no idea what time, but I obviously need to be here for that. I was hoping to get it early as I only really have 3 days to get all packed out, and I'm like the lone ranger here, so guess what I'd planned on doing all day from the time the truck drops off till closing...

So if the processor knew this form was going to be required, and she did. And she knew that it was going to take 24-48 hours from the time I got to the registry to get it completed, and she obviously did. Then why the bloody heII did she wait till late on a Friday to get it to me, and how can she realistically expect me to get it back to her before close of business on the coming Monday?   If the closing gets delayed, sorry Charlie, not my problem. Contact and yell at your processor. I'm not missing my VA appt. So for their sakes, I hope the DMV is very UN-crowded, and they can do the search while I wait and sign the paper. Else-wise, they might not get it till closing, or maybe the day before.

The appraiser for my sale was/is a horse's behind.    He wrote the appraisal low and took off value for non similar comps.  When questioned on it he refused to budge or change anything.   Can't even hire another appraisal as the first FHA appraisal done for a loan, sticks with the property for 6 months, so I couldn't even sell it to another FHA buyer. Really pretty unfair unless you happen to be in a housing market area where prices are going down. Not the case here, so they are going to get an instant 10 grand of equity, plus. I say that because I had multiple offers at 265K.  6 months from now, that's probably where it will appraise. So the place appraised at 251K. The buyers agreed by contract to pay $2,500 over appraised value, so the final sales price is 253,500. Over 20 thousand below the agreed purchase price. I didn't really need that money anyway...  I asked if their loan was final approved. My REA doesn't know for sure but assumes that it is except for this form.

I haven't heard anything from my lender at all. I don't know if the appraisal has been done, has been sent to them... nothing... The termite inspection came back clean. The roofers I guess have been delayed but are putting the new roof on this coming week. So I don't have a clue about my new home status either.

Have had a whole bunch of other stuff to make me angry as well. I texted a friend today that if I had a gun with me today, I'd probably be in prison tonight for murder. Nobody in particular, just the next stupid Ba$%^d to mess with me.

<long sigh> OK, so tomorrow is another day and when the box packing begins. Favorite oldest daughter is here, so she'll be helping. May even get her to help move some of the heavier stuff to be staged in the garage before I take her home on Sunday evening. We'll see...


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Checked with Peoples... not an option. Though I am in their service area, like most others, they are capped out...





Latestarter said:


> I checked with my present provider Comcast & my lowest monthly data usage over the past 3 months was over 100 Gig. The highest was over 150


That surprises me about HughesNet (which you mentioned a while back). We just signed up recently & nothing was said about service area caps.

OMG!  100-150 GB??? I can't imaging either having or using that much data! Wow!

If you go with Verizon's JetPak, remember it's a 2 year contract. You might be able to afford more than I can for your data. We were trying to keep it down to 6GB. Even at that our monthly bill was running around $140, with all the misc. charges, which for some might not sound bad (in comparison). But, on our very limited income that is a lot.

After being used to 100+ GB of data, I suspect you are going to be going through data withdrawal when you get to TX!


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> And if she (the loan processor for the buyer) doesn't have this form back by Monday, it could delay closing, because it's one of the conditions to close, which is scheduled for Thursday the 22nd. Now her Email doesn't say this, but my REA tells me that she told him that I also need to record this document. The REA told her that typically the title company takes care of that when the record the deed and the note. The processor told him that no, I have to record it. That's NOT in the Email so I'm not going to worry about it.





Latestarter said:


> So if the processor knew this form was going to be required, and she did. And she knew that it was going to take 24-48 hours from the time I got to the registry to get it completed, and she obviously did. Then why the bloody heII did she wait till late on a Friday to get it to me, and how can she realistically expect me to get it back to her before close of business on the coming Monday?  If the closing gets delayed, sorry Charlie, not my problem. Contact and yell at your processor.



WOW!!! Talk about Deja Vu!  It sounds like you're describing our fiasco, when we bought this place.  Simple 4 week closing turned into 8 weeks. By the time we closed, I wasn't talking to the loan officer. Promises, promises, promises!  

I think I told you there were no comps for our place either. 

My heart goes out to you packing your shipping container. We did the same thing - both ends of the move (pack & unload). It was definitely NOT FUN!  I'm hoping we never have to move again!


----------



## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> That surprises me about HughesNet (which you mentioned a while back). We just signed up recently & nothing was said about service area caps.
> 
> OMG!  100-150 GB??? I can't imaging either having or using that much data! Wow!
> 
> If you go with Verizon's JetPak, remember it's a 2 year contract. You might be able to afford more than I can for your data. We were trying to keep it down to 6GB. Even at that our monthly bill was running around $140, with all the misc. charges.
> 
> After being used to 100+ GB of data, I suspect you are going to be going through data withdrawal when you get to TX!


Comparing hughesnet vs verizon is apples to oranges, but we pay $139/mo total for 2 phones, voice, text, up to 5 devices and get 18GB/month. (we bought the jet pack outright--arond $60 if I remember right) Our bill actually went down $40 when we upgraded from 10GB to 18GB.


----------



## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> Comparing hughesnet vs verizon is apples to oranges, but we pay $139/mo total for 2 phones, voice, text, up to 5 devices and get 18GB/month. (we bought the jet pack outright--arond $60 if I remember right) Our bill actually went down $40 when we upgraded from 10GB to 18GB.


That's crazy! When we were trying 18GB (not for long , mind you!)  our monthly bill was something like $220, with all the same features that you mentioned.  We just couldn't afford that much.

We bought our JetPak ($100+) & still had to pay $10/mo, for the privelege of using OUR JetPak!

Hey, Joe! It just occurred to me. We can't use the JetPak anymore. If you do sign up with Verizon, ask them if you can use our JetPak. If you can, it's yours for the taking!


----------



## Latestarter

Ideally, peoples will be adding additional hardware out there in the near future which will open capacity, and since AT&T supposedly owns the service rights to the area, I wonder how much complaining to the FCC would be required for them to add infrastructure to support "their" area? If I could do DirecTV and internet with AT&T, the internet would be unlimited. Huges was capped. Verizon wasn't even offering 18 gig to me when we talked. and I don't want bundled anything, I just want internet. 

Thanks @Devonviolet ... I'm not even going to try to get all that set up from here. I'll wait till I'm down there to deal with it. I have enough other stuff on my plate right now. I will buy a laptop and can always use the library for a high speed connection, or use any of the many free Wifi hotspots at eateries and such.


----------



## Baymule

If you want to feel better about your lender/buyer woes, just go back and read my buying/moving fiascos. Then you will be proud of the jerks you are dealing with.


----------



## Latestarter

So I slow, offset cooked, a large, thick, rack of spare ribs on the grill this afternoon for lunch/dinner. The grill is big enough that I could turn on the outside burners and have the meat in the middle away from direct flame. They came out superb. I still have a big double set of frozen beef ribs, but I'm out of time for cooking them. I think I'm going to give them to my neighbor.  Got 2 bedrooms cleaned out/empty and packed up. All the books are packed. The kitchen is torn apart so 1/2 my cooking stuff is ready to be boxed up. #1 daughter got brought home tonight with several bags of groceries. Including several bags of frozen meats. It's quarter after 11 and I have to get up early for a doc appt tomorrow. Not even tired or ready for bed. I also need to run around and get forms signed after the doc visit, then back to packing. Man I hate moving...


----------



## AClark

I wouldn't miss that VA appointment if G.W. Bush said he was coming over for coffee at that time. I'm acutely aware of how long y'all wait for those and yeah, your loan officer is a jackass for pulling that late on a Friday and expecting it on Monday. As if DMV/county buildings are going to be open on a weekend in states that do it by county. in AZ you can find weekend DMV's in Tucson and Phoenix if you can make the drive, because it goes by state and not county, but I know how CO works as I used to have a vehicle registered there until I got tired of the harassment.
By harassment, I mean BS traffic stops and constantly being searched for "drugs" specifically something legalized in CO. Both reasons to be pulled over were really BS and no citations, but they pressured us hard (as my poor husband is completely baffled on what they're asking about when they say "personal amounts") and ran drug dogs over our vehicle both times (yes because a family of 6 with a dog looks like your average drug mule, lol). After two of those stops in a weeks time, I went down to DMV and changed out the plates - haven't been pulled over since. 

I ran 135GB of usage in a month with all the streaming we do - that's 2 TV's with streaming tv service, 3 xbox 360's for the kids to game on, we also have 2 cell phones that are on wifi for calling at the house. The TV is only on basically after 5 PM, since I'm the only one home during the day and I don't watch anything on day time TV. This months worth that I looked up might not be consistent since I just set up Roku's in the living room and bedroom and they downloaded a bunch of stuff right off - we're ditching our cable TV because of the price and basically barely ever use it.
I used to game, so I get how you can suck that down, but I eventually got burned out on gaming online and found I had a lot more productive things to do without it. I also sleep better since I'm not up half the night "raiding" anymore, lol. You might be busy enough that you spend less time online killing baddies and it goes down to a "normal" amount of bandwidth. I was always a night owl and now I'm crashed long before 11 PM unless I have to stay up to make sure something gets in the dryer before the morning. 

Moving sucks! I'm with you there. I tried getting started on downsizing the garage junk and I didn't get far with it. We just broke down the intex pool over the weekend and have it hanging to dry out so we can roll it up and pack it. I have to let the grass grow back where it was before we leave or pay for the yard to be fixed. Granted, someone else will pack and move ours, but the cleaning out junk is a big bummer. We moved into this house ourselves and it took 3 trips with a 30 ft flatbed to get it all in here including having both the truck beds packed down like redneck moving day, it's a lot to do with 2 small adults trying to move stuff that outweighs us combined. Then unloading the 2nd load, I dropped the flat bed ramp (it's for a back hoe) letting it down, and apparently my finger was in the grating. Cut it to the bone and probably broke it from the looks of it now - it sits at a 45 degree angle to the rest of my fingers, lol. 
Just keep the goal in mind and it makes the rest of it easier!


----------



## Mini Horses

Hope all the "powers that be" can get in gear & do what you need while you are there.....so to speak!   The loan processor needs a good kick in the patootie....


----------



## Mini Horses

Cooler & rain today.  Can't work outside, soooo I am cooking from the freezer.   All your fault, Latestarter....those meals you described.   Wasn't doing a big turkey!!     Maybe ribs later in week, from my own butchered pigs, of course!


----------



## Mike CHS

Whenever we smoke pork we do multiple racks of ribs or at least a couple of pork shoulders.  We have so much vacuum sealed that every time Latestarter gets us hungry we just have to put the bag in boiling water.


----------



## Baymule

This will all get better........ I promise.


----------



## Latestarter

28' trailer dropped right after 8AM. No refer hand truck or tie down straps included, though ordered. Called dispatch a bit ago, he said he'd have them out to me within the hour. We'll see. Driver was great, parked it perfectly and got it almost level, helped set up the loading ramp, and all good! Already loaded the spare bedroom mattress/box spring and dresser. Already loaded the defrosted (and @ outside temp) freezer. Then loaded it (the freezer) with all my pantry stores (food), odd shaped/hard to pack kitchen appliances (crock pot, blender, toaster oven, toaster, can opener, etc). Soon as I get the heavy duty hand truck, I'll get my big side-by-side refer (been sitting in the garage for 3 years - but tested and still works great!) loaded in and then fill it with all my plates, glasses, mugs, and kitchen ware/utensils. After that I hope to get both dressers and bedside end tables from the master BR loaded. Oh, I also have a massively heavy 5 drawer filing cabinet in the garage I'd really like to get loaded today.

In the big picture view, I doubt I'll have any problem getting completely packed out with room and time to spare. Though I contracted for 17' of truck space, looking at it, I don't know that I'll use it all so I asked will I get a credit for the space I don't use and was told that I would.   Less is more!

Still no appraisal to my lender. She has calls out to try and find out what's going on. If she hadn't heard back from the appraiser by lunch, she was going to go direct to the VA. My REA is checking with the seller and his agent about the feasibility of me doing a short term lease so I can move into the property basically shortly after I get there; say Monday. That would work out so good for me! Cheaper than a hotel bill, and I can get a washer and dryer ordered/installed as well as a new stove, dishwasher etc. I'm still debating on whether to use the refer discussed above, or just put that one out in the shed and get a new one. Probably use it till it dies... I have other things that I need to spend money on... Like a tractor with a bucket and bush hog as well as other implements...

Wish they'd get that hand truck here...


----------



## Hens and Roos

Good luck with your move!


----------



## samssimonsays

Ahhh! I am just seeing this now! Good luck and safe travels on your move!


----------



## Baymule

BTDT been there done that  I don't envy you one bit. It sounds like you are making good progress. If you could do a short term lease that would be fantastic, hope that works out. You have the right idea, keep using that refrigerator and put your money on a tractor!! 

We would come help you unload, but you are about a week late. Monday, when you are unloading, BJ will be having shoulder replacement surgery. He will be out of commission for awhile, but after he recovers and has therapy, his quality of life should vastly improve.


----------



## Southern by choice

Wishing you safe travels!


----------



## Alexz7272

Be safe!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Hope ya get it all settled!!....and Safe travels!!....if I was on your route, would have ya stop for some Dinner and Rest...but, Ms is just a tad off route for ya...Be Careful!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Have a very safe trip!


----------



## Mini Horses

So, were you able to get all of your "last minute" dumped on you stuff done?   You will be able to close on time at sale end?  

Woo Hoo.....packing is such FUN!!    Safe travels!


----------



## NH homesteader

Safe travels! How exciting!


----------



## Latestarter

So I got about as much done loading the moving truck today as I anticipated. All the heavy bulky furniture except my computer desk (holding up my keyboard and monitors at the moment), the dining room table and my recliner. Two bedrooms and one bath completely empty. My bed and bathroom stuff is all that's left in my BR. Kitchen just about empty... still have my Tea kettle and some last few items. Most everything is boxed. Suitcase basically packed with what I'll need during the move. Done for the day. Tomorrow will basically finish emptying the house and start on the garage. I did move probably my heaviest item and that's a 5 drawer file cabinet, full, from the garage. It has to be over 300 pounds.  I at first didn't think I was going to be able to get it up the ramp. It was a near thing. Closing here is Thursday, looks like 2pm. Got the first attempt at a HUD1 settlement statement for close here. It is what it is, but will not prevent me from moving forward. Hitting the road most likely Friday night or Saturday morning. Not entirely sure yet. 

Still no appraisal in TX or explanation as to why at close of business. Not pleased about that. No word on the short term lease yet. Did find out that the final things needed for my loan are the appraisal and the HUD1/net proceeds from closing here. 

Most exciting thing today was finding a belt I thought I had packed. These pants are too big and I constantly have to pull them up  Now that I have the belt, no longer an issue


----------



## Mike CHS

A move happens one box at a time.


----------



## Mini Horses

You are only 48 hrs away from the newest phase of your life!   That long awaited farmstead.....UNREAL  

It has finally come around......  It's happening...

Enjoy the ride, you have earned it.


----------



## Latestarter

So I'm now officially homeless. Closed on the sale this afternoon. Went smoothly but didn't fund in time for a wire to go out with my proceeds, so that should happen first thing in the morning. Have the house and garage just about emptied out. Better knock the rest out as they come to pick the truck up tomorrow between 5-7pm. No screwing around tomorrow. Basically one more day of packing and then a short break and then I get to unpack everything. I'm stiff, tired, sore, and ready for this to be over. Also, services are shut off tomorrow so I'll be away from here for a while. See y'all on the flip side!


----------



## babsbag

Have a safe trip and enjoy the journey. Your life is about to change.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hope your travels go smoothly!


----------



## farmerjan

Best of luck and safe traveling.


----------



## Baymule

I am so happy for you. This will be a lot of work, but once you are all signed up and it's yours, then the real fun can begin. Unpacking is a chore, but it only means that you are HOME!


----------



## AClark

Remember that unpacking is FUN! You get to pick and choose how you want everything. The hard part is over once the packing is done. Congrats and enjoy your trip.


----------



## Alexz7272

Yay! Be safe! Sorry to see you leave CO, but cannot wait to see your new adventure in Texas!


----------



## luvmypets

So exciting! Can't wait to see this!


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Congrats latestarter! 

Cant for updates on the move and how the new place is once you are there!


----------



## babsbag

Remember that he won't have Internet so our updates may be few and far between.


----------



## Devonviolet

It may be too late for you to see this. Sorry I haven't been chiming in. We have been busy with doctor appointments, for both of us and in the midst of it all, chicks & ducklings, that I ordered, before the medical madness started, arrived yesterday. Then, this morning another Dr. Appt.  

I have been checking in and sending up prayers for strength and guidance. It sounds like they have been answered so far.  I will continue to pray for renewed strength to get you to Texas and get you settled in.

You will have to give us a call once you get here, so we can give you a hand with unloading. We have a dolly we can bring along. We might even pick up some hamburgers, at Whataburger, in Mt. Pleasant.  

Hang in there, my friend, the end is in sight. I've made several cross country moves, and they were never what I would call fun. But, the looking forward to the fresh, new future is always fun & exciting.  

DH and I are looking forward to having you living close by. We are going to have fun watching each other's farms flourish and grow. 

Travel safe and let us know when you get here.


----------



## Ferguson K

Prayers for a safe journey friend. You will be surprised how fast everything moves.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Almost everyone is on AT&T's towers--even as big as Verizon is here they  use AT&T's infrastructure and lease space on their tower.
> 
> I think I have stated elsewhere, that one option for a poor signal is a signal booster. Especially true if you have a metal roof. Some internet providers will offer a booster free or at a discount if cell signal in your area is weak--otherwise, you can get one from companies like Wilson. Not cheap, but they work.



I looked at your link. I think even if we had money to burn we would still be SOL. The Verizon tower is over the hill and I guess the signal doesn't bend much. No one can get enough signal here for a call. Sometimes a text will make it. But we have DSL on the phone line, the only other option would be satellite so we are doing OK



Latestarter said:


> AT&T like just about everybody else I talked to is at capacity. I can get AT&T  directv, just not internet service. Just tried centurylink and they can't help because it's an AT&T service area.   The cell towers there are at cap (for everyone but the owners of the towers, evidently verizon). There is no FO cable at the street, and I can't find DSL service through a local phone provider. The local phone provider said they are at cap. As I said, my lowest monthly usage over the past 3 months was OVER 100 Gig. I can do dish, but they have 5gig speed max, 12 gig data/month max data of 40gig but 28 gig of that 40 is between 2am and 8am.



Consider asking the "at cap" people how many customers they could get if they increased capacity. A guy from the telephone company came out when our DSL died (turns out our port was marked as unused and we were disconnected to put someone else on) lives just over the hill. A few years back he convinced management to let them put in a DSL installation in this area. Got the OK because they had all the spare parts they needed. When they put it up for the telephone customers to buy, they sold out in a week. Talk about pent up demand! They kept adding capacity and just recently upgraded to 15G. I know that isn't Fiber Optic but it is a lot better than the 3G we had and WAY better than the dial-up we all remember 



greybeard said:


> Just curious....how does one use 100+ gb of data per month?



Greeting all the new people on BYH!! Earning all those badges doesn't come without significant time spent on this site 



Latestarter said:


> I'm still debating on whether to use the refer discussed above, or just put that one out in the shed and get a new one. Probably use it till it dies... I have other things that I need to spend money on... Like a tractor with a bucket and bush hog as well as other implements...



How old is that refrigerator? I ask because the old ones are significantly less efficient than new ones. We are STILL working on getting our old house cleared out so I can finish stuff and rent it. Maybe I should get a deal like you have, done in 3 days come hell or high water! Most all the big stuff is moved now though. Anyway, there is a 19 cu ft refer there that was purchased in 1990. STILL works great, only had to clean the fan on the motor once and replace the door gaskets. The ONLY things using electricity at that house are a light on a timer for evening (so it KINDA looks like someone lives there), the clock on the range, the furnace when the water heater calls and the refer. Last month usage was 123 kWh or 4+ kWh/day. You can guess what is using most of that given we go over every other day or so and work for a couple of hours. A similarly sized new model would run about 500 kWh/YEAR. Check to see if TX has any EnergyStar appliance rebates before you decide to plug in the old refer or get a new one.

I forgot to add: If the seller won't give you a short term lease, you and Mel can probably bunk at @Baymule or @Devonviolet 's house until you close.


----------



## Baymule

Yup, we both have spare rooms!


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Been in Houston most of the week doing the Aquaponics side of things.  I know you are out of pocket for the next few days, but I hope your move went well @Latestarter!!  

So I guess the big question is when will you change your "location" on the forum from CO to TX??


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Is he a Texan yet?  Is he here?  Anybody heard from him?


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

frustratedearthmother said:


> Is he a Texan yet?  Is he here?  Anybody heard from him?



I would guess he is no longer on Mountain time but on Central time.  I hope he has a place to unpack once he gets there!!


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Baymule

Latestarter is about to discover the joys of internet country living. When we moved I was on my phone for 7 months before I got satellite internet.


----------



## NH homesteader

I've had only my phone for Internet since we have lived here....  4 years! 

Isn't Latestarter anti smart phone?  That'll change when BYH withdrawal sets in!


----------



## Bruce

Especially since he just got assigned as a Moderator!!!!

I am also anti smart phone. No need for the capability and I SURE don't need the monthly expense. Plus I can't imagine trying to follow forums on a device that size.


----------



## NH homesteader

It's a pain,  I assure you!


----------



## Mike CHS

We have DSL and we are about as rural as you can get.  It bogs down occasionally but does what we need and the price is right.  We had internet for two years before we had water piped into the house. 

I doubt latestarter will have any problem no matter which way he goes.


----------



## Devonviolet

I just spoke with Latestarter. He is staying at a motel in Mt. Pleasant, about 20 minutes from the new property.

He is having a logistical nightmare with the Title Company.   I think he is ready to ring somebody's neck!   He is not ready to sign a lease until the paperwork is squared away.

So, he will be staying at the motel for at least another day or so. He says he thinks there is a computer at the motel, that he can use. If so, he will sit down and type up an update for y'all.

We will be meeting him for dinner tonight, for some Texas BBQ. YUM!!!


----------



## Latestarter

Hey all! Nothing better than the hotel, by the pool sort of days... BAH! I'd rather have a home! Anyway, thanks @Devonviolet for passing on from our convo. Looking forward to some BBQ with them for dinner tonight. Any other texans or others care to join us, by all means come along! I'm at the hotel lobby computer right now and it is

slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. 

Title issues and the appraisal is still not out of lender review, Yeah, there are definitely some necks I'd like to ring. The seller has agreed to the/a short term lease until closing, and I'd love to unload the truck there, but don't want to do anything until I'm sure the appraisal has been approved. I don't want to go from homeless to having a home and then back to homeless again. The title company is still screwing around as well and still haven't provided title commitment. I'm less worried about that.

It's the selling broker's title company and my REA has little experience with them so no power to push them to move faster. Also got a call from the moving company. My truck is already here.  I told the woman I thought they didn't work weekends and I was told 3-5 days. How'd it get here on Monday when they picked it up at my old place Friday at 7:30pm??? Well, at least they do THEIR jobs! So anyway, I don't have time to review everything but wanted to give a brief update.

OK, time to bring stuff back into the room for another night's stay here. Take care all and thanks for the concern and support!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Great to hear from you!  Not so great that everything is not quite settled yet.  Hang in there, it'll all work out eventually.....


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Sorry to hear about all the  with seller's title company.  Hope you have a great dinner with @Devonviolet and have a few hours of relaxing.


----------



## Devonviolet

Dinner at Outlaw Bar-B-Q was good, and the conversation was better.  It was interrupted by a phone call and text, both of which were good news. So, the interruptions were totally acceptable.  

I will save the details for Latestarter when he gets back on the hotel computer.


----------



## NH homesteader




----------



## Ferguson K




----------



## Baymule

Waiting.

On.

Update.


----------



## babsbag

Talk about the teaser.


----------



## norseofcourse

Hadn't had much time to post lately, but been following this thread, and hope all is going well - I have learned a ton about real estate and agents and deals and mortgages and loan officers and title companies and and and.... wow!


----------



## HomeOnTheRange




----------



## Bruce

Devonviolet said:


> Dinner at Outlaw Bar-B-Cue was good, and the conversation was better.  It was interrupted by a phone call and text, both of which were good news. So, the interruptions were totally acceptable.
> 
> I will save the details for Latestarter when he gets back on the hotel computer.



You must have fed him too much and he went to sleep instead of jumping on the hotel computer!


----------



## babsbag




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## Mike CHS

With everything that has gone down he is due some good stuff.


----------



## animalmom

I'll amen to that @Mike CHS.


----------



## Devonviolet

Well, things didn't go as well as expected. So, Latestarter is waiting for things to settle out before he posts anything.

His afternoon was free, so he came for a visit. We put him to work making gates for our brooder sheds (for the chicks & ducks that we got last week - from Ideal poultry).

Here is Latestarter & DH by the first gate, on the goat shed we put on the back of the chicken coop last Winter.  Right now they are building a gate for the dog shelter, that we built for Deo, but he never used it.









Here they are working on the second gate.

When Latestarter joined BYH,  I was the first to welcome him as our 10,000th member. Who'd of thunk that this guy, from Colorado, would one day be in our yard building gates with DH.  Ain't life grand???


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Weird how it all works! LOL 

You should have him put some fences up too

So if he's staying at a hotel who has Mel? Did he sell off his chickens? I don't know if he already posted that or not…


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## babsbag

I love it, nothing like breaking him into country  life with a bang. I need someone to come visit me...I have 5 gates to put in and a dairy to build.


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## Goat Whisperer

I'm visiting once the dairy is running


----------



## frustratedearthmother

That's awesome!  You welcoming him first was an omen of good things to come!


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## babsbag

Goat Whisperer said:


> I'm visiting once the dairy is running



Slacker 

I seriously have 5 gates to install...now, not next Spring.


----------



## Mini Horses

Babs, I'd help you with those gates if you weren't 3000 miles away.


----------



## Baymule

@Devonviolet I see a lot of this mutual working together for ya'll in the upcoming future!! I'm sure for Latestarter, hanging gates with your DH sure beat sitting in a boring motel room!


----------



## Bruce

Have Joe and Mel moved into your guest room? 

ETA on when the "issues" are cleared up??


----------



## babsbag

Thanks @Mini Horses  It is the thought that counts right?


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## Goat Whisperer

Babs- you know I'd be over there in a heartbeat if it were possible!

I hope Devonviolet is putting him to good work.


----------



## babsbag

I really need the young man that used to work for me to come home from his summer job and get back to work for ME. That was downright inconsiderate of him to take off for the entire summer.   His mom tells me that he might not be coming back either. He is supposed to weld the milk stands for the dairy. I NEED him here. I could put him to work installing gates.


----------



## Devonviolet

Goat Whisperer said:


> Weird how it all works! LOL
> 
> You should have him put some fences up too
> 
> So if he's staying at a hotel who has Mel? Did he sell off his chickens? I don't know if he already posted that or not…


  it's funny you should say that @Goat Whisperer. He has already offered to help with the fencing. 

The sellers have offered to give him a short term lease until they can get to closing. So, he is now staying there until his shipping container gets there tomorrow.

There is a fenced backyard behind the house and Mel is back there. He has already dug a hole under a bush, to keep cool, out of the sun.  So, he is settling in nicely. 

He left the chickens behind. I think he gave them to the buyer when he left.


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> @Devonviolet I see a lot of this mutual working together for ya'll in the upcoming future!! I'm sure for Latestarter, hanging gates with your DH sure beat sitting in a boring motel room!


Absolutely! Starting tomorrow.  Once the shipping container is delivered, he is going to call us, and we will head over to help him unload it.

He isn't sitting in a boring hotel room any more. Nope! He traded it for a boring, empty house.   That's why he called to see if he could come give us a hand here.  We were sure glad he called!


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> I really need the young man that used to work for me to come home from his summer job and get back to work for ME. That was downright inconsiderate of him to take off for the entire summer.   His mom tells me that he might not be coming back either. He is supposed to weld the milk stands for the dairy. I NEED him here. I could put him to work installing gates.


We can certainly identify, Babs!  Finding reliable help here is impossible.


----------



## babsbag

This young man used to do chores for me when he was in High School and even then I could just point him in the right direction and he would figure it out. He has done fencing, tractor work, tree cutting, building dismantling, pen cleaning, weed eating, and last but far from least...WELDING. After high school he went away for a few years and worked in a welding and fabrication shop, his talents go way beyond his 21 years. He welded the gates for my kidding pens and did a really good job. I worked him HARD when we were dismantling the old barn for the dairy. I had a time line and never would have made it without him. He is reliable, honest, fast, and good, and I miss him.   And for me he works for cheap as he is farm born and raised and he understands the economics of farm life. I want to adopt him.   I pay him extra when I can as paying him by the hour just doesn't seem right as he is always done way sooner than I anticipated.


----------



## greybeard

I suspect, while he is wandering his way thru the world on his current sabbatical, he will very soon learn to bid jobs BY the job, and not by the hour. 
that or he will learn to slow down a lot


----------



## babsbag

Right now he is working at a summer lodge doing who knows what...maintenance and recreation was what they told him when they hired him. The only report his mom got a month after she dropped him off was that they all admire his work ethic and attitude. He would love to go into the military but has some health issues and they won't take him; it would suit him well though.  And yes, he should work by the job and not the hour.


----------



## Mike CHS

This thread is getting to be better reading every day.  If all of you need more to do we had the skid steer with jack hammer yesterday that lost the battle with our rock.  I picked up bags of cement yesterday to make up for some of the less than deep holes.


----------



## Bruce

@Mike CHS  I recently heard about micro blaster: https://www.ezebreak.com/

We ALL need one of these, blow your boulders apart, legally. Sadly they are quite expensive. Might be affordable if you plan ahead and drill the holes AND live close to a place that rents them.


----------



## Mike CHS

Thanks Bruce - that is an interesting system but we are making due.


----------



## Devonviolet

DH & I are at Latestarter's new homestead. We just finished helping him unload the truck.

And @Southern by choice, I couldn't wait to tell you that we got to meet Mel. What a sweet boy he is! And BIG! He has about 5 or 6 inches, in height on our dogs!


----------



## Bruce

Joe had to make Mel smile for the 1st picture??  He must be big, or Joe is 4' 6" tall.

I bet Joe will be eternally grateful for the help. 3 unloading is SO much faster and easier.

I think it is FABULOUS that he and Mel moved to an area where there were already friends. Can't get better than that. Thanks so much for posting.


----------



## Southern by choice

Wow that is so great! @Devonviolet  thanks for the updates and pics of Mel too! 
So great that Latestarter has help, friends, and a HOME! 
WOO HOO!
What a journey!

@Latestarter  I love Mel! So glad to see him well taken care of and loved so much! Big silly lug! Always amazed at how much energy you have after a bajillion miles of driving! I'd need to sleep for a week.

@Bruce  that is grabbing the sweet cheeks/jowls we all do this with our LGD's they are like handles! LOL


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## JACB Dorper

Heel low:

[QUOTE}
View attachment 22416
[/QUOTE]​
And to think I posted last on page, uh, twelve...88 pages now but hey mun...thars a dog smiling and a man residing on new dirt...nothing finer.

@Devonviolet great photos...nicely capturing those magic moments.  

Ah yes, moving...yeh...the next move we make will be in pine boxes to the crematorium...and then the dust comes back to be shot over the animal cemetery...yeh...moving...blah!  Only good thing about moving is when she's done and yer sitting down to dinner, eh.

Second to last move was huge, coupla ten ton Ryder trucks rented (nfi), truck and boat on trailer, me 4 wheel squeal, and the two semi tractor trailers we bought and still own some 20+ years later--soon to be making our last mortgage payment...kewl!  Time flies when yer having fun... 

So those tractor trailers, that be two times 45 feet and stuffed by my Hero so full, they had to shovel off the snow on top the one trailer so as not to be over weight at the scales...I kid you not.  Called him one afternoon (I got the government transfer and he and the kid got left to sell the house and come join me ASAP)...and he was huffing and puffing...when he finally calmed his heart rate he cursed (nothing abnormal thar!) AND stated, "Now I'm PO'd that I packed the rope..."  Implying if he hadn't, he have ended his misery with it.  GOOD GACK!

Yeh, moving sucks when you own stuff and we sure own stuff...now so much _more_ good stuff on our five acres that be why I said, no more moving...move me out when I die or forget it.  I am squatting here furever and ever!  





*Makins on our farm*​
So back to Mel...herding dogs, livestock guardians...they both know all about possessions, be they ones with heartbeats or hard worthy assets to make life easy.  They KNOW they own stuff because they own us...right?  





*The whole gang on the ranch under the Dolgo tree -
Fixins Stoggar Makins
HyBlade
Styra Foam*​
So cute moving story...we moved from the Interior of BC to Central AB...rented a place before we got here because this time, my Hero got the job first and I was left behind (big butt indeed I am!), to do what he had done the move prior...get thangs in order.  So it was the household stuff we had left to move out last.  An our dog Makins (Australian Cattle Dog--one of THE main reasons on why we wanted our own patch of dirt again) was beside herself.  Very attune to our possessions...she guarded both us the humans and our stuff...well have a fit.  We rented the ten ton truck to make the trip to the new place we rented and began loading the truck up.  

She figured so robbers were making off with all our stuff.  Racing around sniffing, despair in her eyes...nothing we could do to calm her down.  She was beside herself...no matter what she did, the place we had rented, all our things kept dwindling--no matter how much she guarded the stuff, it kept magically (to her, ask our backs and weary feets) disappearing...she could not stop it!  Thank doG we were loading that day and going out the next.  She road shot gun with me and the kid in the 4 wheel squeal following Rick in the ten ton truck.  She was hugged the whole way but you could see she was not happy--she was on an adventure but she remembered she had failed to protect the family's possessions.  Well happiness soon followed...YAH!





*Makins with her pups...day one and Fixins was already the "special" chosen one*​
We arrived in the wee hours of the night, caught less than useful shut eye and as soon as it was light out...began unloading.  Well let me tell you...you know that dog cartoon that leaps in the air over biscuits...floats contented on down...well that be Makins the happy dog dog.  She was overjoyed...so much so she was a hazard with her tail beating happy wiggy butt all over the place.  "Our stuff...I never failed my fam...we have all our stuff still!"  We had miraculously REfound our stuff and set up her home all over again.  Life was good as it should be.  





*Australia Day - Jan 26, 2016...Lacy & Emmy
Our Aussie imports sure know how to celebrate their country of origin's day, eh!*​
Been a very loong time since we moved...four dogs down from the five, plus two more...that's how long it's been since we moved and the shock and the horror of the ordeal...has still not worn off...so yeh, worth it, yes, repeat it...NOPE! 

Yeh moving...move moi in a pine box or not all...  

I am so very glad for you Joe...so happy for you and Mel and when you reflect back in ten year's time...you'll know it was worth it...  

Oh and BTW, do plant any trees and plants you want big...Rick and I are amazed that the Caragana is a living pricky privacy fence, the Spruce are towering, and the Lilacs that border both sides of the front drive--planted summer of 1999...by jove, they ARE a smelly (_old ladies on a bus_ smelly) wall of beauty every June.  DO the plantings ASAP--only thang you should get on with...we never thought we'd see the day and yeh...that day is today & ever onwards until we cash it...happily here...furever and ever... aH WOmen!

Enjoy it, you and Mel deserve it absolute!   

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada


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## farmerjan

Congrats to you and thanks to your friends for all the help, get started on the rest of your life!!!!!


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## Devonviolet

GREAT story Tara! Thanks for sharing your journey. I've made my share of miserable moves, but none as "interesting" as yours. For our last move we donated 60% of our belongings to a local church, that sells them at yard sales, so they can donate to local missions groups.

There are times we realize something we donated what we are looking for & grumble under our breath. But, in the end we know it went to a good cause. So, we buy another and move on to our project.

I see you just joined us in June. 

Welcome to BHY, from the big beautiful state of Texas! So glad to have you join us!


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## Latestarter

OK, so I'm sitting in the Best Western parking lot after driving an hour to and another back, from Texarkana... the nearest Best Buy, where I spent about a grand on this beautiful new lap top, and a DC to AC converter for the cigarette lighter so I can plug the laptop in, which allows me to sit in the parking lot typing. This hotel has free WiFi, so I decided why not? Free means free, right? That's what's advertised. Thanks everyone for all your posts! Great to know I was providing interesting reading material for y'all   This laptop has a touch screen, which is taking a bit of getting used to, but so much better than the mouse pad, which I hate.

OK, so here's the latest: The title company finally came through with the title commitment, then stated they wouldn't accept the survey... so now I'm waiting for the seller to get an updated survey done for title. Closing which was supposed to happen on the 29th, got pushed to the 4th, and is now pushed to the 13th. We'll see... Let's just say I have mt doubts.  I told my REA I just want to own the place before Halloween! No realistic idea of when the survey will happen. If it's as I remember, it will be difficult to get a survey done in less than a month, maybe two! 

So yesterday I had @Devonviolet and her DH come over and they helped me with the most difficult items and the 28' trailer is now empty! Thanks you two! Today my new refer, washer, and dryer arrived. Had hoped to be doing laundry this evening... NOT SO FAST! When they opened the cold water line to the washer, the damned thing leaks... heavily. I was hoping I could get a replacement washer and fix it, but I guess that's not a possibility. So I went to the street to look for the main water shut off... can't find it. When I get back home I'll be climbing under the house to see (I HOPE! ) if there's a main line shut off under there. Then It's off to the hardware store for a replacement valve and an acetylene tank so I can do some soldering and replace the valve. Might just go ahead and replace both. Maybe I'll just call a plumber... let THEM burn the house down!

Today I tried again for internet service... nope... It's satellite for me or nothing. I did get an appointment for DirecTV to be installed on the 4th. Will be good to be able to watch my New England Patriots play every week. Next order of business is to do all my online bill pay. Hope to get to that this evening... back here to the BW parking lot again! I guess the beginning of the week I'll start calling around for satellite internet and see what the best deal available is.


----------



## greybeard

> *originally posted by Latestarter:*
> OK, so here's the latest: The title company finally came through with the title commitment, then stated they wouldn't accept the survey... so now I'm waiting for the seller to get an updated survey done for title. Closing which was supposed to happen on the 29th, got pushed to the 4th, and is now pushed to the 13th. We'll see... Let's just say I have mt doubts. I told my REA I just want to own the place before Halloween! No realistic idea of when the survey will happen. If it's as I remember, it will be difficult to get a survey done in less than a month, maybe two!



Had the same thing happen when I sold property last year--the buyer's lender wouldn't accept the 5 (five) year old survey and wanted a new one before they would present check for closing. I and my realtor told the buyer if he needed a new survey, he'd have to get it himself; I wasn't going to pay for it. He did, everything surveyed out exactly as it did originally and he was out his $$$ for nothing--it only delayed closing 2 1/2 weeks IIRC. 
Just had too many other people waiting in line with cash in hand to buy it for me to spend any of my own $$ on it.


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## Bruce

You are getting there Joe! Really enjoyed @Devonviolet 's pictures of you and Mel. I can see the 

Might be worth getting one of those combination valves for the washer. Single lever turns both hot and cold on or off. I sure do hope you find a CONVENIENTLY located whole house shut off valve. I wouldn't consider under the house convenient. I suppose is possible one wasn't installed but that is really bad work if true.


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## OneFineAcre

Are you om a well or county water ?
If you are on a well then turn the power off


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## Bruce

Since he said he went out to the street to look for a shut off it must be county water.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Well then there should be a meter and a shut  off


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## Bruce

True but sometimes those things are buried. The shutoffs in my old neighborhood were. But then I live in Vermont where the frost can go down 4+ feet and the waterline to the house better be lower than that  

Could be there is a shutoff at the street and no one thought to tell Joe where it is. I figure this is just a small bump in the road


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## babsbag

If it's county water I would think that that means a water meter and a convenient shut off valve.  I have a shut off at my well and one in my house but I also have one at every set of sprinkler  valves and auto waterer. I am a little fanatic about not going far to shut off water in a hurry.


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## Mike CHS

Meter location aren't always in a logical place.  Both of my neighbors meters are located with mine but the lines that run to their houses go through our pasture and are almost a half mile from their houses.


----------



## Mini Horses

I'm spoiled, my well water cut-offs I had put in the garage.  One whole house, another at the run from the tank to the barn, so only out of house cuts off.   Winter can create a break out there!   I also had one installed in the house coat closet where the pipes run to upstairs bath.  That way, I could drain & stop more input up there.   

Since I installed all the underground to the farm from barn down to all pastures, I have a cut off at point of barn, so still water there but nothing to fields.  Then, at each underground run where pipes rise up for easy spigot use, have another set of spigots & cut offs which allow me to stop water going to upper pipes, then drain & shut those off but, run water from a spigot at under ground level.   Yep.....nuts but have water all winter at all locations!  I have little "water stations" dug, lined, built up & insulated housing at my piped up watering locations.

Hoses can be a problem in winter.   I purchase one of those expandable ones -- VERY flexible.  Can put into tight places, cut on water...use, then stop flow, drain and take a much, much smaller hose to garage to dry.  It weighs almost nothing, decompresses nicely, handles easily. 


So, back to Latestarters problem.   Does seller have obligation to fix that leak?  Depends on all your contracts, etc.   But, I would have a plumber do this job....for ease of issues and corrections of any others while there.  Like, do I need another cut-off installed???


----------



## Latestarter

So, I lucked out and the owner stopped by today around lunch time. Got a lot of questions answered. I now know the general area where the septic tank is, and that it was pumped about three years ago. I also now know where the leach field is. Both good things to know. The leaky valve on the cold water line to the washer was a surprise to him as he said it was working fine when they disconnected theirs to move. He did show me where the street cut off was for the city water... It's all the way down at the other end of the neighbor's property on the other side of his driveway. Got a replacement faucet and torched the old one off, soldered the new one on. Only minor plastic melting of the washer pipe "box".

So I now have clean clothes and decided it was past due to get that spa filled and operational. Well, I got 1/2 that mission accomplished... It's filled... Called the owner and asked how to turn the danged thing on. He said the control panel should light up and come on as soon as the breaker is set and power is applied. Sorry, no lights, no power, despite several re-sets of the breaker. Opened the side panel, the 30 amp fuse is still good. No burnt electronics smell. Lots of huge mud dauber wasp nests in there. removed those. Still no power and no re-set circuit inside there either. So this time he came with his wife. The spa was hers for her severe RA. Needless to say, they can't get it to turn on either. He made some calls and said someone would be out Wednesday to get 'er right. I asked would I need to be there as I planned to go do some manual labor with the @Devonviolet crew and he said no. He'd go out there with the repair person. YAY!

So while waiting for them to arrive, I cleaned my grill and made her pretty. Looks like new again. Would hardly guess it's 5 years old or so. Had hoped to grill up a steak and soak tonight. No such luck there... instead I'm back up at the best western. So I called about internet service today and signed up for satellite internet. Got the basic 10 gig plan for $70/mo (60 + 10 for modem rental). Was told speed would be in the 15 meg range till I hit cap, then would be throttled back to 1-2 meg speed but no further cap and no overage charges. Was told it's unlimited between like midnight and 8am or maybe that was 2am to 8 am... something like that. Anyway I have no install date for that as he needed to see when the installers would be in my area. Tomorrow DirecTV should be there to install my TV capability.

There's a furniture store here going out of biz... everything must go sort of thing. Turns out I went in the day the sale started and saw a nice 3 piece reclining sofa/loveseat/recliner set. It was marked like $3,600, and when I told the sales guy I could see paying about 1500, he said that wouldn't happen. I waffled and didn't start wheeling and dealing to buy it right then. Thought better on it but when I got back it was sold and gone  Danged it all! Knew I should have gone with my gut. So on the way here to post I noticed another furniture store. I'll swing in there and see what they've got. I went in to a lazy boy place and for being lazy they really charge through the back side!

So, woke up to voices in the yard and turns out the surveyors arrived this morning and started. They said will take 2 days, possibly 3 to get it done. Depends on how much trouble they have locating the markers at the back of the property. They were back there this afternoon but I was knee deep in a filling spa when they left, so I never got a chance to ask them how far along they got. They did say that the side fences were pretty much exactly on the lines. It's the back line that comes in 8' in two places onto my property and then 21' out in another place onto the neighboring property.

So things seem to be working along. Oh I asked the owner while he was there earlier what he wanted to do about rent since I had only paid through the 4th. He said don't worry about it. YAY! Might have to stall closing for a few more months...  So life goes on. Hopefully I'll be back more regular shortly without siting at BW.Have the danged aptop plugged in  but it's not charging for some reason. so gonna call it quits here for now. Hope y'all are doing well!


----------



## Bruce

Wow, sounds like your seller is a nice stand up guy. Lucky you! We bought from a liar and a cheat. 

About that modem. How much does a satellite modem cost? We paid $10/month for YEARS for a cable modem. Stupid thing only costs about $80. Bought one at BB and have more than paid for it already. Unless the satellite people REQUIRE you to use their leased modem, get out of that part now before you waste any money. I do not think they can legally require that.


----------



## Latestarter

The seller is a county constable. It's an elected position and he's held it for some 20+ years. So he's well known and well regarded. He is a very decent guy. He, his wife and I chatted for the better part of an hour when they came by this evening about the spa. She's a very nice woman as well. They shared stories about the property and things they've experienced there. They talked about the deer coming up to the back fence to tease their dog, and the hogs they've seen there. He was telling me that he even saw a black puma/panther cross at the back fence line once a few years back. He and his wife used to ride Harleys as well but stopped after a close friend wiped and died. They were there when it happened.


----------



## NH homesteader

They sound like nice people.  Glad to hear things are moving along! 

Today is the anniversary of the death of my husband's best friend.  He crashed his motorcycle.  His brother watched it happen.  I feel for them. My husband  and I won't ride either.


----------



## Mike CHS

Your seller does sound like you hit a good one and it does sound like things are falling into place.
Internet service after midnight would do nothing for us.  We are soundly sleeping no later than 10 PM .


----------



## Baymule

Our neighbors are up in the middle of the night on the internet, then they sleep late. I just don't want to be on the internet that bad....LOL
What provider did you get?


----------



## Bruce

You struck gold there Joe!!!! Any questions you have can be answered. For myself, I would like to know where all the buried rock and rubble piles are. I seem to hit a major one EVERY time I want to dig in the ground for any purpose. It should NOT take 4 hours to put in a single T-post!


----------



## Latestarter

ouch... 4 hours per T post, times how many? <smacking head with palm>

So yesterday I was feeling a bit squirelly <sp> so I went and bought a new recliner set: sofa/love seat/recliner at the other furniture store. Not as nice as the one I missed out on, but will serve the purpose when I have house guests. Also got a nice soak in, in the jacuzzi last night. Sweet!  Man, I didn't realize how much I missed that! It will only get better as the colder weather gets here. Haven't heard back from the internet company yet (Excede offered through "Dish Works") Not ideal, but better than any other satellite provider offered.

Woke up this morning to overcast and 90% humidity. I left the house closed up last night and AC on... Glad I did! Was like walking into a wet wall! I haven't dealt with humidity like this in decades! All I can say is wow... gonna need to adjust! Sun has burned the heavy overcast off now and it's 90 f with still high humidity. Sitting at the BW again... had to connect to get my insurance provider's # so I could call and pay the bill. Have always done it online so didn't have their # in my cell. Do now.

Was supposed to go help @Devonviolet and her DH today but things conspired and we had to postpone to a later date. I think I might have strained my MCL on my right knee, so just as well that I have a few days to keep that elevated and resting. Speaking of recoveries... @Baymule I hope your DH is doing better! I've been remiss as I've been meaning to give you a call and pass on well wishes... Shame on me .

So the survey of the property has been completed and copies of it as well as the invoice have been forwarded to my lender. I have no idea if title has accepted the new survey or not yet, but it "appears" that the final hurdle is in sight! I need to contact the lender and ensure I have at least a day's lead time as I need to run 2 hours west to get to the nearest branch to get the cashier's check for closing. So I need final figures at least 24 hours before close. I'll be calling my processor after I'm done here.

Sorry I haven't been keeping up on all the other threads I usually follow  When I finally get internet at the house I expect I'll be back and much more active.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Good to hear from you - hope everything keeps rolling along!


----------



## Bruce

> ouch... 4 hours per T post, times how many?



5 plus 2 wood posts one that still had its concrete "boot" on from where it had lived previously. The area is ~16' x 18' and the fence (which including the 10' pipe gate is only 2 sides of the area!) is none too straight (which annoys a certain part of me no end) because there were rocks I just could not move. Put there with an excavator most likely and not moving without same.

Should have been a "few hours" job. Did it this way so I could use the WedgeLoc system to set angle braces on the end, corner and gate latch posts - quick and easy. Can't say I recommend it, though it probably works slightly better if your posts are inline like they are supposed to be. Of course with all those immovable rocks, I couldn't have put wood posts in where I needed them either. Next time I start on a fence, I'll (hopefully) find no big rocks and will use the floating brace system on the corners that @greybeard has detailed.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> He was telling me that he even saw a black puma/panther cross at the back fence line once a few years back.



The  panther population in East Texas grows by leaps and bounds every year. Must be some prolific breeders.


----------



## Baymule

Haha, a neighbor with an alligator mouth and hummingbird tail has claimed that he saw a black panther in his back yard. I suspect he would tell a tall tale.......


----------



## Baymule

Excede ain't the greatest, but it sure beats the heck out of the BW! I hope you get connected soon!


----------



## Ferguson K

We have a black buck and a white doewe constantly capture on the game cam. A few weeks ago a neighbor claimed they had a record setting bobcat on camera. I said I need pics.




 

That's an average coon behind her. Record setting all right!


----------



## samssimonsays

Maybe that is a record setting coon


----------



## Mini Horses

Well, even an "average" bobcat can be a formidable foe!!!   I know that I do not want to meet up with one at night!!!!


----------



## Devonviolet

I've never seen, nor heard of panther sightings, in our area. However, that doesn't mean they aren't here.  With their stealthy ways, and black fur, it's almost impossible to see them under the cover of darkness.

We have been told, by the previous owner, that he saw big cat tracks - he was assuming they were Bob Cats. But, again Bob Cats only seem to come out under the cover of darkness.    I'm told there _have_ been sightings of Bob Cats here.

I'm so glad to have our Maremma LGDs. They sound off at night, so I know they are seeing/hearing something. Sometimes it is a rabbit or armadillo.   But, other times we have shone our flashlight into the adjacent farmer's field and seen coyotes - about 200-300 feet out. Keeping their distance from those big white dogs, no doubt!  We have never lost a chicken, and I know people who don't/didn't have LGDs, who lost as many as 100 chickens. 

We also know we have racoons, in our part of East Texas, because the previous owners lost a chicken, that was beheaded (the body was left), which I'm told is typical racoon behavior.

Ah, the joys of living in the country!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Here in Mississippi I've seen bobcats during the day time...and when driving a truck...have seen mountain lions in Texas and Oklahoma....they have panthers in Louisiana too...so, it wouldn't surprise me if ya have them there in eastern Texas.....having dogs would be a great idea for sure.


----------



## samssimonsays

We have cougars here. We know we are on the edge of ones territory for sure, a female. And Either we have two or one was just passing through because I spotted one to the other side of us about 8 miles away. But the DNR insists there are none in Minnesota At least they did. People have hit them with vehicles, trail cams pick them up, horses taken down by them. Waaaaay too many occurrences not to have a permanent population of them. Big cats, gotta love the fact that you never know they are there unless they want you to.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

We've seen a cougar(s) here.  Been a decade or so since I actually put my eyeballs on a cougar.  A bobcat was seen in the pasture next to mine earlier this year.  I think they go around my pasture because of the dogs.  Thank goodness!


----------



## Latestarter

Latest update... Closing is set for next Wednesday 10/12/16 at 9am. Everything that needs to be done has been done. Anything that could potentially derail this has been rendered moot. I have reviewed the closing disclosure (used to be called a HUD1 form) and all is as it should be. Effective next Wednesday I will once again be a home owner... This time with 19 acres and lots of work to do . I have heard from the internet provider and installation is scheduled for Monday, so no more driving up to the best western for free WiFi... I'll be paying for internet, but no driving involved. My DirecTV is up and operational and not surprisingly there are 100+ channels of crap that I have zero interest in, 50+ channels showing movies they want me to pay extra to see, and the stuff that I am interested in is primary on a loop, repeating endlessly. <sigh> At least I'll now be able to watch my Patriots play every week... the one highlight to having this service.

Have been contemplating a road trip in the next week or two over to a certain place in NC to visit Mel's siblings, parents & their owner(s). I do have some rather immediate repairs that I need to do around the place once it's mine. And then I need to start stretching fencing and building additional out buildings to house the animals I expect to join the fold next spring. This fall/winter I really need to concentrate on getting a tractor and implements as well. I have sooooo much to do before next spring comes. I guess I better get the camera battery charged up as well... I know y'all are going to insist on pics and I know I can't always be expecting @Devonviolet to provide for me...

OK, getting hot sitting here in the truck typing. Time to head back to my air conditioning. Will update again soon.


----------



## Bruce

Pictures? We don't want no stinking pictures!

UM, YES WE DO!!! 

At least with all you have to do before spring you can work on it all winter. Kinda hard to put up fence at 0F and the ground is frozen 3 or 4 feet down.


----------



## NH homesteader

Am I the only one who loves that winter (with frozen ground)  is a built in excuse to,  for once,  NOT work on fencing?  

Happy to hear all is moving along.  Yes pictures! Oh and have you decided which animals are  arriving first? Goats...  It's gotta be goats.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Latest update... Closing is set for next Wednesday 10/12/16 at 9am. Everything that needs to be done has been done. Anything that could potentially derail this has been rendered moot. I have reviewed the closing disclosure (used to be called a HUD1 form) and all is as it should be. Effective next Wednesday I will once again be a home owner... This time with 19 acres and lots of work to do . I have heard from the internet provider and installation is scheduled for Monday, so no more driving up to the best western for free WiFi... I'll be paying for internet, but no driving involved. My DirecTV is up and operational and not surprisingly there are 100+ channels of crap that I have zero interest in, 50+ channels showing movies they want me to pay extra to see, and the stuff that I am interested in is primary on a loop, repeating endlessly. <sigh> At least I'll now be able to watch my Patriots play every week... the one highlight to having this service.
> 
> Have been contemplating a road trip in the next week or two over to a certain place in NC to visit Mel's siblings, parents & their owner(s). I do have some rather immediate repairs that I need to do around the place once it's mine. And then I need to start stretching fencing and building additional out buildings to house the animals I expect to join the fold next spring. This fall/winter I really need to concentrate on getting a tractor and implements as well. I have sooooo much to do before next spring comes. I guess I better get the camera battery charged up as well... I know y'all are going to insist on pics and I know I can't always be expecting @Devonviolet to provide for me...
> 
> OK, getting hot sitting here in the truck typing. Time to head back to my air conditioning. Will update again soon.


You should time your trip to NC to coincide with the dairy goat show at NC State Fair
Would be a good learning experience
It's one of the largest in the country


----------



## Baymule

OneFineAcre said:


> You should time your trip to NC to coincide with the dairy goat show at NC State Fair
> Would be a good learning experience
> It's one of the largest in the country


When is the show?


----------



## OneFineAcre

Baymule said:


> When is the show?


Not next weekend but the one after


----------



## Mike CHS

The goat people would enjoy this weekend in Lewisburg, TN.  Little local celebration that features Myotonic goats along with a meat goat class.  Story is that the Myotonics originated around Lewisburg.  the breed.  We went last year to admire the show effort and will go again tomorrow.

The festival is called Goats, Music & More (meaning music concert)


----------



## Mini Horses

Well, NC is NOT just "around the corner" from TX !   So, if you plan to drive that far -- do it now before animals become part of that new farm.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@Latestarter, are you picking anything up from VA too?


----------



## OneFineAcre

Baymule said:


> When is the show?


Youth Showmanship is Friday the 21st
Youth show is Sat 22nd
Open Show Jr Does is
Sat 22nd that night
Open Show Milkers is Sun 23 rd


----------



## OneFineAcre

Goat Whisperer said:


> @Latestarter, are you picking anything up from VA too?


What's in VA?


----------



## Poka_Doodle

Hmm, that just makes the puzzle more confusing. If anyone is willing to clarify please message me and do so.


----------



## NH homesteader

Haha secrets! What?


----------



## babsbag

Last time he drove to NC he brought home Mel so it make perfect sense that he would drive to VA. Are we enablers?  I think he should plan it to attend the fair, that would be fun and educational. @Latestarter , aren't you glad that we are all planning your trip for you?


----------



## Baymule

Closing on your house on Wednesday??


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> Closing is set for next Wednesday



WHOOP! WHOOP!


----------



## CntryBoy777

One 'Chapter' Closes....while another one Begins!!....not another more Deserving individual!!....but, I can't 'Hold my Breath' that long for ya....so, I will just Pray!!


----------



## babsbag

I now the real work begins.


----------



## Mike CHS

If he needs any advice on fencing in rock I can probably help by now.  

I am glad to see this finally taking place and I know he has to be elated.


----------



## Bruce

OneFineAcre said:


> What's in VA?


Um, perhaps @secuono and GP puppies??


----------



## OneFineAcre

Bruce said:


> Um, perhaps @secuono and GP puppies??


Ahhh
You might be correct


----------



## Latestarter

OK, I now officially have internet once again. One more distraction to help me procrastinate on building fence and barns and chicken/duck/turkey coops, and pig pens and sheep paddocks and goat milking stands... you get the idea right? I don't want to do any real capitol improvements here until I legit own the place. Odds of bad things happening are slim to none, but still and all... I'll wait. There are existing issues here with buildings and fixtures that will require my immediate attention once I own the place, along with all the other stuff I need to start preparing for animal ownership. As for advice... I'll accept it but physical help would be more appreciated  There are too many things I need to buy and not enough $$ to buy everything I need.

Yes, you're ALL a bunch of enablers, you can't deny it! ... just so happens, I seem to fall into that same description. 

Thanks Bruce and GW... I'd love to have a pup from @secuono and in fact have been eyeing Aruu since day one... Since that's the only one she really named, I expected that she's a keeper... And I'm not really set up, prepared or even ready for another LGD pup right now. Too soon. I don't want to get the next one (LGD) till I have stock and Mel is established with them. I'm going to need him to help raise/train the pup I get to be his companion/playmate/workmate. So next summer would be more likely for LGD #2. I "might" have a couple of leads on litters that should produce/prove to be some exceptional LGD pups, that "should/might/may/could" be coming available at about the right time... we'll see. I don't want to make a mistake... I need to make the right choice the first time out. Well, second time really, I made the first choice right with Mel.

So It seems the dishwasher has decided to no longer work, and of course I'd been filling it with dirty dishes. I also filled the jet dry cylinder with the last of my bottle of jet dry... That stuff is expensive! Called the owner, he bought it brand new in March of this year. He called Lowes and they're sending out someone tomorrow to hopefully fix it. SO today was shot with internet install, tomorrow with dishwasher repair, then Wednesday with closing initially, but after that I get to visit with @Baymule and her DH along with @Devonviolet and her DH for lunch. Next eating engagement will be at my place. 

I have a huge pork shoulder out smoking on the grill right now and boiled up some spuds last night and made tater salad this morning while waiting on the internet installers to get here. Pork roast is coming up on 5 hours now, low and slow    Been sampling it off and on over most of that time. I'll have to look at dates as far as when the goat show is in NC... Not exactly sure what dates I'll be traveling. And I'll have Mel with me and staying in hotels, so might be difficult to go to the show. Will have to look at logistics. May not be able to get a room close to the fair/show... they may already be completely booked up. We'll see.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Don't forget it's deer season so a priority should be finding a spot out back to hang a stand and get some venison


----------



## Bruce

And an orange vest for Mel so no shumdit doesn't mistake him for a deer and shoot him.


----------



## Baymule

We can't wait to show you around out little patch of paradise! Looking forward to you, Devonviolet and DH coming over!


----------



## Latestarter

Just got out of the jacuzzi. First night I was done in 30 minutes. I'm back up to an hour now. Been a long time since I was able to soak regularly. Already know it's going to be a God send once I really start doing physical labor around here. Never did get a time to expect the dishwasher repair folks tomorrow, so I guess I can't sleep in tomorrow and will have to text the owner to see if I can get an update on anticipated arrival time. I guess tomorrow I better find out where the closing is taking place as well. Might help for Wed morning...


----------



## Latestarter

So someone refresh my fading and often lacking memory    Is there some (valid) reason I can't have a large plate of pulled/sliced pork and potato salad for breakfast at 8:30am?   I might even go back and brush my teeth again when I'm done


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Heck to the NO!   You can have whatever you want for breakfast!


----------



## babsbag

Living alone has its perks, eat whatever you want, when you want. I frequently do pancakes for dinner when DH isn't here. 

It sounds delicious.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Latestarter said:


> So someone refresh my fading and often lacking memory    Is there some (valid) reason I can't have a large plate of pulled/sliced pork and potato salad for breakfast at 8:30am?   I might even go back and brush my teeth again when I'm done


...seems it might be Air, Opportunity, and Mel that may Keep ya from it....or, ya just don't feel like Fixin it...LOL!!....sounds like a Good breakfast to me though!!....as long as ya can get it around Mel....sure bet his mouth will be Watering!!


----------



## Latestarter

OK, I will be completely transparent/honest/full disclosure... Whenever I have meat, so does Mel. He had I'd say about a 1/2 pound chunk of pork for breakfast as well. He knows and loves pork as much as I do. As soon as he hears me at the fridge and smells it, the drool machine starts. I make him take it outside so I don't have a puddle to clean up. Luckily I now have hard wood floors... carpet with this drool machine (oh and he's also an excavator machine - LOVES to dig pot holes to lay in) would be an absolute nightmare!

Pancakes sounds pretty good! Haven't made them in quite a few moons and I just happen to have a brand new, unopened bottle of 100% pure maple syrup I can "tap" into for them   Maybe fry up a few breakfast sausages to go with them... I think me and pigs are going to become a staple... LOVE me some pork!


----------



## NH homesteader

I never liked pork much (except bacon or course) until I started raising my own pigs.  Now I love pork! So do my dogs...  I think pork and venison are their favorites. 

Hope to do our own maple syrup this year too...  Mmm...


----------



## NH homesteader

Hey @Latestarter thought you'd find this interesting... Killington is officially making  snow! Maybe you did move the right direction...


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## HomeOnTheRange

Ok @Latestarter, I was doing fine on my weight loss until you started talking about pulled pork, potato salad and pigs in the blanket.  Next you will be going on about beer battered onion rings and okra.  YES, all of those are great for breakfast!


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Good luck on Wednesday!  I am so stoked that you are finally getting to close and start getting your place setup the way you want.


----------



## greybeard

> So It seems the dishwasher has decided to no longer work, and of course I'd been filling it with dirty dishes.


When that happens here, we just throw 'em out and buy more.


----------



## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> Hey @Latestarter thought you'd find this interesting... Killington is officially making  snow! Maybe you did move the right direction...



Man are they pushing it this year!!!! Waste of money if you ask me. It won't stay cold enough for it to stick for another month. But some of these areas will do almost anything to say they have a longer season than others.


Latestarter said:


> So someone refresh my fading and often lacking memory    Is there some (valid) reason I can't have a large plate of pulled/sliced pork and potato salad for breakfast at 8:30am?   I might even go back and brush my teeth again when I'm done



Nope, you are a big boy and you can eat whatever you like for breakfast, lunch and dinner.


----------



## NH homesteader

@Bruce I guess they have some big international event at the end of November and they want to make sure they have enough snow.  I only pay attention because my husband works at another ski area and I thought wow,  he'd be working his winter job already if he worked there!


----------



## Bruce

Yeah but there is no base if it melts! Thanksgiving is at the end of November, special event or not, all the ski areas want to be open by then.


----------



## NH homesteader

Believe me I know,  my husband makes snow.  That's what the article I read said,  it had something to do with a special event.  I don't remember what. I just hope it's a better winter than last year.


----------



## Latestarter

OK, after this post I'm out the door on the way to closing  Should be issue/hassle free. (Isn't that what we always expect?) Then headed down south to visit @Baymule (who just called and I missed it, will check VM momentarily - hope all is OK and we're still on for the day). Hope y'all have a great day!


----------



## frustratedearthmother




----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Hope you have a great day all the way through!


----------



## NH homesteader

The suspense!


----------



## Baymule

I'm not about to steal his thunder, but I will say that @Latestarter, @Devonviolet and her husband came to our place for lunch and we all had a wonderful time.


----------



## Latestarter

Lunch, good company and good conversation is ALWAYS a good thing! Thanks for having me (us)  Everything at the closing went without a hitch. They had me arrive for signing at 9 and the sellers at 9:30, so they were there and ready to go as I was walking out finished. The lender had the title recording fees $3 too high so the title company owes me 3 bucks. I'll swing by today (or soon) and pick up copies of all the closing papers. Oh, and here's a twist... Many of you may remember the very first property that I drove down here to look at; 40 acres with a barn, backing up to the wildlife area... Well when I was leaving my closing, that seller was standing in the lobby of the title company! He had closed the sale of that property several days ago and was there to pick up his paperwork. Turns out he got what he was asking and the man who bought it had several sons, multiple tractors, a bulldozer, fork lift, and everything possibly needed to work that property like it deserved! I'm really happy for him and his buyer! It was just too overwhelming a task for me to take on by myself. We spoke for a little bit before we both left. Very nice guy!

Lunch out at the @Baymule homestead was great  I really felt bad as I didn't bring anything to contribute to the meal   Was nice to finally get to meet the renowned Paris and Trip and the their other dogs as well. Very sweet dogs! Next get together will be at my place. I have this huge 5 burner grill with rotisserie that Mr. (& Mrs.) @Devonviolet helped me move out of the moving truck & up onto the back deck. That was probably the most difficult (VERY heavy and very bulky) item to deal with of everything that I moved. I'm thinking/mentioned properly aged, seasoned, then cooked to perfection rib eye steaks  

On that subject, I have to say that I've so far been very disappointed in the quality and availability of meats here. I bought some thin sliced rib eyes (for breakfast steaks) from walmart and they were not well marbled and were as tough as shoe leather. I bought (hormel) pork chops at the super1foods (owned by brookshires) and the top visible chops were "semi-decent" but everything underneath them was cut unevenly (thick on one side, thin on the other), very fatty, covered in meat "saw dust" and bone chips, and just generally looked like crap. I know I purchased the cheapest, "value pack" pork chops, but really... I haven't found a brookshires near me yet, but will try them next. Priority is to find a local butcher shop where I can buy quality (locally produced even?) meats, even if I have to pay more for them, and then to start raising my own!

I know it's an awful long drive for others in the TX contingent, but maybe a few others (that are within "reach") can come as well; @Ferguson K @animalmom @frustratedearthmother ? Well, really, any of the many friends/folks who post here on my thread would be most welcome to join in, no matter where you live  I'll make room on the grill for more steaks, or maybe some chicken/burgers/brauts/ribs... whatever... I know some folks have particular diets and may not be able to (or care to) eat red meat. I'm pretty much a carnivore... any meat suits me, and grilled, or on a stick (or BOTH!) is even better  Hmmm Haven't done shishkebab in ages...

Was going to start working today by breaking out my push mower and doing the ~1 acre right around the house. It's been overcast since late last night and is very damp and humid so I guess I'll put that idea on hold for a day or two till things can dry back out. We need some rain here. Everything is still plenty green, something I'm not used to from being on the plains in Colorado, but it's very dry.

OK, enough for now. Since I now own the place, things will slow down posting here until I actually start accomplishing things around the place.


----------



## NH homesteader

Congrats!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Very happy for you


----------



## Bruce

Thanks for the invite Joe but I don't think I'll be able to make it even though it is only 1,650 miles.  My next big trip will be 1,100 miles to Beloit, WI in May for DD2s graduation.

Glad that door has closed and you are set to make the place your own. 

p.s. I took the liberty of posting your pre closing status on BYC Old Folks Home yesterday, people were asking if you had moved yet.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks Bruce. I've been trying to catch up on both sites but being behind some ~500+ posts in TOFH, I haven't gotten to that one to catch up yet. I better make it a point to do so soon. I know I hate being left "hanging"...


----------



## norseofcourse

Many congrats on the closing, has it truly sunk in yet?   

You might want to change your 'location' in your profile page... maybe your occupation, too - perhaps something like 'busy' ?


----------



## Mike CHS

If he's like many of us he is getting ready to get in better shape.    We adopted an "it will get done when it's done" attitude and takes the pressure off.


----------



## Southern by choice

Very happy for you! 
It is also fantastic that you have several herdies nearby. How great is that!


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Lunch, good company and good conversation is ALWAYS a good thing!


Ah yes! FOOD, FUN AND FELLOWSHIP at it's finest!!! We did have a great time!

Latestarter got the grand tour of the property. I had already seen most of it, but some was improvements that had been done since the last time we visited. It was fun to see sky through the trees of the previous tightly woven briar patch. So nice to see the sheep browsing. Their deep throated baa is similar, but different from our goats - which is much higher pitched.

During the tour, Bay got a text from her DD. It was a photo of 5 month old granddaughter, that was hilarious.     It seemed that she had grabbed her hair and was pulling it - crying all the while, because, _*someone was pulling her hair!  *_We got a huge laugh over that one. Kids say the darnedest things. But, babies do the cutest things! 

I had never seen the barn up close, so we walked over and through it. Y'all may think I'm weird, but it has been YEARS since I have been up close and personal with a horse. So when big, white, blue eyed Joe came up, from behind, right next to me, it gave me a start. Once I recovered, it was so nice to be able to pet and talk to him. Next the mule (I can't remember his name) came up for some pets & conversation. He is the offspring of their mare, whom I didn't get to meet. She kept to herself.



Latestarter said:


> I haven't found a brookshires near me yet, but will try them next.


  Joke's on you!  Brookshire's is just around the corner from Super1Foods. 
It's on State Road 49, just up from Outlaw's Bar-B-Que.


----------



## farmerjan

Congrats on the move and FINALLY being a farm owner!!!!


----------



## Ferguson K

Congratulations friend! !! 

We're usually pretty tight on schedules around here so I need to know ahead of time! My one off day a week is usually preplanned because I don't know how to relax, just ask my husband! 

We do need to come up that way and see the place though.


----------



## babsbag

Congratulations on getting through all of this in record time. Now the fun begins and the to do list will be growing. I have a white board in my kitchen that is supposed to be a list of tasks for DH on the weekends (his idea) but it is really  a list of tasks for me as I will think of things at 2 AM and if I don't write it down then by 8 AM I have forgotten what I needed to do. I used to laugh at my mom and her lists...now I understand.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I used to laugh at my mom and her lists...now I understand.



My wife says the same thing 

So we know the people had a good time at @Baymule's but how about Mel?


----------



## Mike CHS

I keep my Lists in a steno notebook since it would be hard to manage a single sheet of paper.  I get so many things "almost" done that I have to set aside one or two days every once in awhile to get the almost done things really done.


----------



## babsbag

"Almost done" is my nemesis. We have a bad habit of getting things to the functional stage and then moving on to the next "fire".  It isn't that we want to live that way, but it happens more often than not. Part of it is the proverbial trying to squeeze 50 lbs of potatoes into a 10 lb sack; that is what happens when DH is only home 3 days a week, we have to pick and choose the most important project of the weekend.


----------



## Baymule

Mel stayed home, but Latestarter got to play with Trip and Paris.


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> "Almost done" is my nemesis. We have a bad habit of getting things to the functional stage and then moving on to the next "fire".


We know all about that, Babs! One of our first projects is yet to be "finished".  We built a nice chicken coop and painted it barn red. One of these days, we will find time to cut the trim boards, paint them white and get them nailed to the coop. It seems like the hurried-er we go, the further behind we get!


----------



## greybeard

> On that subject, I have to say that I've so far been very disappointed in the quality and availability of meats here. I bought some thin sliced rib eyes (for breakfast steaks) from walmart and they were not well marbled and were as tough as shoe leather. I bought (hormel) pork chops at the super1foods (owned by brookshires) and the top visible chops were "semi-decent" but everything underneath them was cut unevenly (thick on one side, thin on the other), very fatty, covered in meat "saw dust" and bone chips, and just generally looked like crap. I know I purchased the cheapest, "value pack" pork chops, but really... I haven't found a brookshires near me yet, but will try them next. Priority is to find a local butcher shop where I can buy quality (locally produced even?) meats, even if I have to pay more for them, and then to start raising my own!


3 letters:
HEB

Sounds like you got the "assorted" pork 'chop' package. Real pork chops on top and "pork steaks" (from the shoulder) on the bottom.

Beef from walmart is always a crap shoot, especially with the thin cut steaks unless you can get their 'butcher' to thin cut some from their CAB choice grades. 
I have much better luck at HEB even when picking thru their stacks of value pack select grade ribeyes. Like most big chains, they buy boxed beef (and lots of it) then sort thru the choice ribeye and tbone and sell the less marbled ones at select prices.

Will be traveling thru your area tomorrow on our way to Paris, so if you see a black blur or hear a sonic boom, you'll know my wife was at the wheel.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

greybeard said:


> Will be traveling thru your area tomorrow on our way to Paris, so if you see a black blur or hear a sonic boom, you'll know my wife was at the wheel.



Now that's funny!  And, you sound just like my husband, lol!


----------



## greybeard

In my august and never too humble opinion, my comment is not unjustified..
Did your husband have to pay for a 90-in-a-55 ticket and see your joint auto insurance premiums go up 3 times in 2 years for 3 at fault accidents? Probably not. 
(I have not had a ticket since 1982, have only had one accident since 1967, and it was over 30 years ago.)

Still, I love her madly but the perils of my stated occupation are never to be underestimated.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter you can eat anything you want for breakfast !!  I more often than not have leftover from night before.    Of course, the bacon & brownies combo this AM will prove to be a less than good choice later in the morning but, that's life.

A meal is just to refuel.   If it tastes good and provides needed nutrients, that's it.  I am not really in the mood to cook early AM and often feel I have no time for it.  That means coffee and heat up works.  Late day or weekends my "culinary creativeness" blossoms and I become more of the "TV cook show" type.     Mornings -- on your own -- get what you find!! 


GLAD you are now a farm owner!   That'll keep you busy.    By the way, Mel is a huge, beauty of a dog.


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## Baymule

In your neighborhood........

https://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/


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## frustratedearthmother

greybeard said:


> Did your husband have to pay for a 90-in-a-55 ticket and see your joint auto insurance premiums go up 3 times in 2 years for 3 at fault accidents? Probably not.



Not for me!  I haven't had a speeding ticket in over 20 years and that was the only one of two that I ever got.  The first one being in high school in a clunker that I was proud to drive - but had no working speedometer... However, my husband, in the 16 years I've known him has had at least 8 - 10 speeding tickets.  The one on his motorcycle was much worse than the one your wife got.  I'm NOT giving details on that one.

Accidents - Two motorcycle accidents.  I was a passenger in one of them and I have the scar to prove it. ( Last time I got on a bike) Another one I had to drive to the hill county in the middle of the night to pick up him (and his three broken ribs) and haul the bike back home on a trailer.  He backed into a really old truck in a parking lot, in my brand new SUV.  Only broke the light out in the truck (we gave the guy all the cash we had on our person - around $300 that he was thrilled to get).  He hit a pole in a parking garage the night before we were supposed to leave on vacation...ran into the back a Lexus coming home from work, hit another guy in a parking lot after an evening meeting of a community service group, AND, most recently, ran the front end loader of the tractor into my barn just this past weekend!   Two years ago someone ran a light and totaled his car and very nearly totaled him too.   So, I do feel your pain. 

The difference in me and my DH is that on the (ahem) rare occasion that I (may or may not) exceed the posted speed limit, I pay attention.


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## Mike CHS

I have no idea about the quality of their meats but they could give lessons on how to set up a web site.


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## Baymule

In my neighborhood....... I have bought hamburger from them and it is good.

https://www.facebook.com/corazoncattle/


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## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> I have no idea about the quality of their meats but they could give lessons on how to set up a web site.


 It's better than it used to be. I have never bought from them.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> In your neighborhood........
> 
> https://www.texasgrassfedbeef.com/





> $10.50/lb for what amounts to a cube steak (chicken fried steak) ???
> 
> Beef Minute Steaks
> 
> 
> Four small tenderized boneless steaks per pack
> 
> Price Per Pound
> $10.49
> 
> Package Weight
> 0.96
> 
> 
> And $11/lb for something off the chuck and part of that weight is bone?
> 
> Beef Chuck Steak
> 
> 
> One 3/4" thick bone-in steaks per pack
> 
> 
> 
> Price Per Pound
> $10.99
> 
> Package Weight
> 0.75
> 
> 
> Boneless Beef Single Ribeye Steak
> 
> 
> One boneless 1" thick steak per pack
> 
> Price Per Pound
> $20.49


WOW!


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## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> Not for me!  I haven't had a speeding ticket in over 20 years and that was the only one of two that I ever got.  The first one being in high school in a clunker that I was proud to drive - but had no working speedometer... However, my husband, in the 16 years I've known him has had at least 8 - 10 speeding tickets.  The one on his motorcycle was much worse than the one your wife got.  I'm NOT giving details on that one.
> 
> Accidents - Two motorcycle accidents.  I was a passenger in one of them and I have the scar to prove it. ( Last time I got on a bike) Another one I had to drive to the hill county in the middle of the night to pick up him (and his three broken ribs) and haul the bike back home on a trailer.  He backed into a really old truck in a parking lot, in my brand new SUV.  Only broke the light out in the truck (we gave the guy all the cash we had on our person - around $300 that he was thrilled to get).  He hit a pole in a parking garage the night before we were supposed to leave on vacation...ran into the back a Lexus coming home from work, hit another guy in a parking lot after an evening meeting of a community service group, AND, most recently, ran the front end loader of the tractor into my barn just this past weekend!   Two years ago someone ran a light and totaled his car and very nearly totaled him too.   So, I do feel your pain.
> 
> The difference in me and my DH is that on the (ahem) rare occasion that I (may or may not) exceed the posted speed limit, I pay attention.


Your hubby and my wife must have been separated at birth...............however--off road farm tractor accidents don't count. (I flipped one over on it's side about 7 years ago--my father flipped one end for end and walked away from it)


----------



## Baymule

Two words.......deferred adjudication. You pay the ticket, plus whatever they want and don't get another ticket from that particular jurisdiction for either 3 or 6 months and it goes away. It is wiped from your record and you get to continue your evil ways. 

Is it a bad thing when the city secretary of Alto, Texas knows my husband's voice?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> Two words.......deferred adjudication. You pay the ticket, plus whatever they want and don't get another ticket from that particular jurisdiction for either 3 or 6 months and it goes away. It is wiped from your record and you get to continue your evil ways.
> 
> Is it a bad thing when the city secretary of Alto, Texas knows my husband's voice?




You got it, Bay!  I probably shouldn't say this because we KNOW that none of our little municipalities play favorites - but if you go in with your Healthcare ID - sometime they tend to be a little more lenient.




greybeard said:


> Your hubby and my wife must have been separated at birth...............however--off road farm tractor accidents don't count. (I flipped one over on it's side about 7 years ago--my father flipped one end for end and walked away from it)



Yep - separated at birth for sure!

Farm accidents are scary.  Glad everybody walked away.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Two words.......deferred adjudication. You pay the ticket, plus whatever they want and don't get another ticket from that particular jurisdiction for either 3 or 6 months and it goes away. It is wiped from your record and you get to continue your evil ways.
> 
> Is it a bad thing when the city secretary of Alto, Texas knows my husband's voice?


Not sure that would work in my county--we have the singular distinction of once (1970s-early 90s) having the only county sheriff in the US that served time in a federal penitentiary for waterboarding confessions from prisoners--as well as illegally impounding property and vehicles.

http://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/03...ip-searched-innocent-motorists/3074416898000/


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## Latestarter

Thanks for the link Bay but that's some STEEP prices per pound... I like rib eyes but $20.49 a pound would have to be a mighty special event  ... and Porterhouse are $25/lb...  Even with the discount for larger orders and for driving to pick it up, that's kinda rich for my budget... 

Thanks GB, I did a search and the closest HEB is in Carthage... ~83 miles away from me. About the same distance as it is to visit Bay, so not too bad... I guess I could make a run down there some day next week and look at their meats. They advertise boneless rib eyes H‑E‑B Prime 1 Boneless Ribeye Steak, sold by the pound  $15.97/lb USDA Select Boneless Ribeye Steak, sold by the pound  $9.27/lb  And my personal flavor favorite: USDA Select Bone‑In Ribeye Steak, sold by the pound  $8.97/lb  This might even be worth checking out: Value Beef Boneless Ribeye Steak, sold by the pound  $6.47/lb  I'd even be willing to pick some of these up:  USDA Choice Porterhouse Steak, sold by the pound  $8.47/lb 

I have to do a run over to the VA hospital in Shreveport next week to get checked in and started with them, so will tie this in with it and just do a round robin trip.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Dang!!...at those prices you'd be better off just picking one out on the Hoof and get a jump on loading the Freezer...LOL


----------



## Baymule

greybeard said:


> Not sure that would work in my county--we have the singular distinction of once (1970s-early 90s) having the only county sheriff in the US that served time in a federal penitentiary for waterboarding confessions from prisoners--as well as illegally impounding property and vehicles.
> 
> http://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/03...ip-searched-innocent-motorists/3074416898000/



I remember that. We lived in Polk County, right next door to ya'.


----------



## OneFineAcre

greybeard said:


> Not sure that would work in my county--we have the singular distinction of once (1970s-early 90s) having the only county sheriff in the US that served time in a federal penitentiary for waterboarding confessions from prisoners--as well as illegally impounding property and vehicles.
> 
> http://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/03...ip-searched-innocent-motorists/3074416898000/


Nice


----------



## Latestarter

So went over to Shreveport yesterday afternoon to check in with the VA Hospital. Was figuring about 90 minute drive. With one stop for a bite and something to drink it took right at 2 hours. Got there at 3:20, only to find that the person I needed to speak with had "just left" for the day (supposedly at 3:30)  So asked if there was an alternate who might could help... Oh, yes, of course... but she's on vacation all this week   Well is there ANYONE who works a "normal" work hours day? Nope, sorry... They put a "message" in the file to her and "she'll call me"... Hopefully in the next month or two . I talked with a Pharmacist and got my one critically low prescription refilled for 14 days as a "bridge" until I could get an appointment to be seen/check in. I always love working with govt agencies...

After leaving there I headed down to Carthage, TX to visit the HEB there. Was on the road anyway, and it didn't add any substantial mileage or time to the trip. Their steaks were MUCH better quality and far better priced than anything up here. So now I know where to go for freezer stocking. Thanks for the tip @greybeard


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## Bruce

That sucks Joe. Clocked out 10 minutes before they "officially" left? I guess you didn't have an appointment 'cause if you did I'd be  at their boss.


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## Baymule

The VA.....


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## Mini Horses

My mom has "Tricare for Life" and they actually mail her meds, 90dy supply.   Nice....if renewal needed, they contact Dr, etc.     May be the time her husbands were in service but, you may want to see if that is available.


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## Latestarter

Tricare is primarily for dependents. I have full coverage through the VA. I get 90 day supplies of meds with refills to cover a year. The meds associated with my disability are free. The others are a minor copay. They mail them out to me and I typically do an annual visit to make sure all is copacetic. Speaking of the VA, I received the call back from them today... while sitting at the Chevy dealership waiting to hear how much lighter my wallet is about to become. That in a bit... I have an appt set for December 14th that they will send me a notice/reminder and that will be my "welcome aboard" appointment with my primary care provider. I had a choice of going with the "quick stop/urgent care clinic" in Texarkana, which is about 30 minutes closer, or staying with Shreveport. Since the Texarkana location is only a clinic, they'd have to order out any tests to Shreveport in any case, so I decided to just stick with Shreveport. I asked what I was supposed to do with any immediate issues I might have and was told to just come in and go through their urgent care or ER. SO I guess that's what I'll do, but THIS time I'll start heading that direction MUCH earlier!

So, now for the truck sit... Something in the drive train has been going for a while now. I've put off doing anything about it for as long as I could. It was at the point the past few days that it sounded like a can full of gravel rattling around under the truck any time it was in motion. I couldn't tell where exactly the noise was coming from when driving, but knew by the sound that it wasn't going to be good. I couldn't take the chance of a break down out in the middle of nowhere between here and Shreveport so around lunch time, while out running errands I swung in to the Chevy dealership to see what it looked like for scheduling for service. The workers were at lunch so the service dept manager took care of everything and they got started this afternoon. They gave me a loaner vehicle to keep me mobile until it's fixed. All their existing loaners were out, so they took a brand new 2017 Chevy Colorado pick up truck and transferred it over to be a demo/loaner and that's what I'm driving right now. It had like 20 miles on it when I took it off the lot.

So the service dept called me late this afternoon and it appears my front transfer case has decided to self destruct internally. One of the potential joys of owning a 4x4. They didn't know if the drive shaft had been damaged or anything else downstream of the transfer case. So right as it stands I'm looking at ~$3 grand in repairs and labor, and that could go up depending on what they find when they take it all apart. They said they were going to try to get it completely stripped out today so if they needed additional parts they could get them ordered to do the repair tomorrow. I never heard back from them so I'm hoping that means the drive shaft was OK... I guess I'll find out for sure some time tomorrow.

What a difference driving around in a new vehicle... XM Sirius radio, back up video camera, all the dash gauges and lights work, including a working speedometer. More buttons and knobs and dials you'd think you were in a space ship, and a nice tablet sized dash display. Didn't try out onstar or the GPS functions. Feeling kinda like my parents with the VCR flashing 12:00 continuously...  Anyway, while there waiting I got a bit crazy and went and chatted with a salesperson about buying a 2010 or newer 3/4 ton 4x4 with diesel and an Allison transmission... He said he'd take down my info and let me know if anything comes along. I told him I'd like to stay at/below $25K and that mechanical was more important to me than appearance. Doubt I'll see anything in that price range newer than 2000-2005 or so.

He did refer me to the guy he bought his tractor from up at the Kubota dealership. Shared the good deal he got and said I should go chat with the guy. I also finally got to meet the neighbor who lives up in front of me. Turns out he's a life long local and his cousin lives "around the block" and does dirt/dozer work. When I mentioned that I really wanted to put in a pond, he said I should go talk with him about what I want. Said the best way to get things done around here was by word of mouth. So lots of "stuff" is floating in the wind, but being addressed... I don't know if it's my imagination because it's already so apparent or really happening but it looks to me like the lean on the shed is getting larger. SO that has to be my #1 priority. Problem is just winching the walls back vertical won't fix it as the floor isn't level and the roof is "falling in" spreading the walls further apart as well. That's gonna be a fun job to tackle 

OK, life moves on.   Still not sleeping well. Couldn't sleep last night so went to bed ~4am and was up and moving again at 8:30 or so. Hope to get a decent sleep tonight.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya have been in a 'Whirlwind' before, during and after your 'Big Step' in Life....and your mind is still trying to 'Process' it all....while ya continue to 'Push' to get things started....take ya a few days and allow things to Slow down just a bit...Relax and just Soak it in....catch your 'Breath' and ya will Find that Sleep and Rest ya are searching for...that move 'Lag' is catching ya...along with the running ya have done since ya got there....your not a young 'Whipper-Snapper' anymore...and too much on your Mind....just spend some time with Mel and Relax!!


----------



## Bruce

Wow, trucks are expensive if you have to go with an 11 to 16 year old one to not break $25K! And with that you likely won't be getting the XM radio, backup camera and tablet "infotainment" screen. They basically didn't commonly exist that long ago.

With regard to the shed, sounds like you need to winch the walls in 4 directions, top and bottom, to get it squared up. Then figure out what needs to be done to keep it that way. One fairly common method is a large diameter threaded rod with a turnbuckle in it. But I really think that is meant as a stopgap if you can't fix all the broken parts soon(though there is one in my smaller barn that has been there who knows how long and it has serious issues that are probably many decades old in some of the hand hewn beams). My GUESS is that the sills or top plates on your shed aren't structurally intact. If they are, the foundation is likely bad (or both). If none of this is true, then maybe you can get away with using cable and turnbuckles diagonally from top corner to bottom corner as you would a corner fence post. Or even a long diagonal 2x screwed to the studs after winching it square.


----------



## Mini Horses

OK -- Good, you get meds mailed auto...same as Tricare.

Ahhhhh, those dang new vehicles.  Smell good but  WOW, too many options.   My Jeep destroyed it's trsfr case.  Still sits.  One day will get fixed.  Have another truck & a car, so no rush.      They started my guestimate @ $5K.  

As to sleep -- that relax sure sounds good BUT just doesn't happen easily -- not when you have so much to accomplish.  Same here.  Older you get, slower you go, harder to get done & until then, no relaxing.   Worth a try -- just don't expect instant gratification.  

Good look with the building repairs.   I've had some jacked and winched & added footing.   Job for sure but, sometimes less expensive than some options, esp if building is worth the effort.  Mine were.  Hope you can get it fixed.


----------



## greybeard

I suppose 4wd are nice, but I've never had the 'need' for one, even tho I live in a very wet region.
I did put 250k miles on a 4wd Jeep Cherokee out in the Concho Valley back in the 90s, but only used 4wd a couple times going up Twin Buttes--bought it used and it just happened to have 4wd.
$50,000 4wd diesel duallys have become the new status symbol in Harris and Tarrant counties (Houston/Dallas). Replaced Suburbans and Beamers--if you drive in to Houston, you will see drs, dentists, lawyers and other white collars driving them by the hundreds from suburbia to downtown and back every day.  On the rare occasion I need a big load of calves hauled, I hire it done for less than a single monthly truck note.
4wd is only good measured from ground to the frame of the truck--after that, they're stuck just like everyone else--and that measurement is only in a few more inches if even that much.


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## babsbag

I have a 4WD Tundra and it goes into 4 wheel drive every time I come home from town, our road is a beast. I have a steep gravel driveway to my house and another steep gravel driveway to my barn. When moving a 1200 lb bale of hay the 4wd is a necessity in the gravel and my driveway stays so much nicer when I use 4wd.  I also travel to OR where my mom lives and it snows on the pass so my car is a 4WD too. I have had a 4WD in my life since 1983, can't live without them.

About the beef prices...I buy 1/4 of a steer from a friend of my sister and it comes to about $5.00 a lb after cutting and wrapping. It is great grass fed beef and I don't feel bad at all paying those prices. I think I am getting a bargain.


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## greybeard

$5/lb cut and wrapped is indeed a bargain. I think ground beef retails close to $4/lb--I on't pay much attention to what it is in the stores.


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## Baymule

Hope you get some sleep, it's hard to work on the Leaning Shed Of Texas when you are bleary eyed from no sleep.  It makes it difficult to get it straight when you aren't seeing straight. 

Truck troubles.  But the good news is.....it's still better than buying a new one.


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## HomeOnTheRange

What??  Wait!  This must truly be official! @Latestarter has changed his location to "NE Texas"!


----------



## farmerjan

Too bad you aren't closer;  I have 2 nice jersey steers ready to go to the butcher and the one that was "sold" is now available as they said they couldn't afford it.  That's at $3.00 lb hanging weight which would make it in the neighborhood of $6.50 lb with the cost of kill, cut, vacuum packed, frozen for actual take home edible meat.  That's for every cut; steaks, roasts, ground meat, everything.  If you look at the cost of angus steers at the stockyards, they are running in the $1.00+ lb live weight, so $2.00 lb hanging (min.), (figure 50% of live) butcher costs will run the same, but there will be more "loss" with more fat on them, and so the actual take home will be a little less percentage usually.  And I guarantee my beef.  If you take it home and try a steak and a pkg of ground meat within a week and don't like it or find it tough (which has never happened with a jersey I've sold yet  I will take it back and give you a full refund.  My steers are grass fed so are a little leaner, but have never been tough, and the meat is healthier being grassfed there is more good "cla".  Last year I sold 3 1/2 steers to a lady who co-ordinated with several neighbors and she worked directly with the butcher here on the way they wanted it cut up. They came from 2 1/2 hours away.  Came down with several freezer chests and handed me 1/2 cash and a check and I talked to her a week later and they all were very pleased with the meat.  She said they figured it averaged $8.00 lb by the half (total cost) and they were very satisfied as they specifically wanted grassfed.  Prices have fallen alot this year on all classes of beef cattle, so I dropped my price $1.50 lb on the hanging weight to reflect the current markets;  when all is said and done, we are not making much over actual input costs, but I really don't need 2 in the freezer as I still have a 1/2 or so from last year.  Being jersey they will not bring much at the market and I will not give them away so if they don't get sold they will be in my freezer.  Anyone want some beef?????


----------



## Latestarter

LOL Home on the range... yup, it's been official since last week. All closed and the problems and issue are now all mine! I knew the truck repair was going to have to happen but pretended to myself that I could put it off indefinitely... Of course we all know how that works... and how it turns out in the end. $3,088.00 later I have my truck back. Not sure, but it seems this fix also fixed my speedometer. Didn't know, but it may have gotten it's input from the front transfer case. My tractor down payment money is dwindling fast... And I have a barn to build as well and home upgrades/repairs.  Might have to pick up a few lottery tickets.

I used to do a lot of high altitude camping/hunting in late fall early winter, snow/ice/mud, goat trials and all that good stuff. Many places I went I would not have gotten to or back out of without 4 wheel drive. Even with the 4x4, there were a couple times I didn't think I was getting back out . Never got to the point that I had to chain up, but there were a couple times when it came real close. I do keep a set in the truck for emergency situations. Other than that, the 4x4 isn't really "needed" down on the farm too much... IF you have a tractor or dozer to pull/push stumps. I use the truck in 4 wheel drive to pull stumps. Not as effective as a dozer/back hoe or tractor, but gets the job done in a pinch. Having posi-traction/locking differential in 4 low helps also as there's no more wheel spin on one side. 

Bruce, when they built the outbuilding, the contractor took a LOT of shortcuts... I mean a LOT. It's a ~32'x16' bldg & they did lap siding directly to the stud walls with no OSB or house wrap. Since there's only one small nail at the top of each lap into each stud, the studs have the ability to move laterally and "fold" like an accordian would (think dominoes falling, but all at once, to one side or the other). In order to keep that from happening you need a single piece of wood (4x8 sheet of OSB for instance) with multiple nails vertically in each stud to keep that (and all other) stud(s) vertical and unable to move/fold side to side. 

In addition, one front corner is substantially lower than the rest of the floor and I believe the entire front of the building is in fact, lower than the back. The one front window won't close as the window frame is no longer square... one side is much lower than the other at the low corner side. So I need to jack the front of the building up to level the floor and the side walls at the base before I winch the top of the building forward to pull the wall studs back vertical. Then I need to brace the side walls internally and remove all the lap siding and do house wrap and OSB before putting the laps back on. 

They ran the electrical wire in the gap provided by the lap siding, between the 2x4 studs and the siding, not through drilled holes in the studs, so I'm going to need to re-wire the bldg as well before I can really "finish" the outside walls...

They built platforms for ceiling height storage at either end, but they weren't built or anchored properly, and will probably need to be taken down and re-done. They will also most likely need to come down as they used 2x4 studs for the roof and there's no low rafter horizontal tie in or support like with a typical truss so the peak of the roof is slowly sinking as the roof rafters push the front and back walls out. So I'll probably need to use a jack on the roof peak beam while using a come along to pull the front and back walls back in to the proper distance apart, and then probably use a fabricated metal plate outside the header/top plate and up against several of the rafter ends, and then wire front to back with wire & turnbuckle to hold them in proper placement.

Seriously... I've contemplated if it wouldn't be easier (though more expensive) to just take the building down to nothing but floor joists, then jack up the floor piers and pour concrete footers under them to level the floor, re-raise the walls, and re build the roof with a proper truss system. No matter how you look at it, I've got a bit of work to do to fix it. Both side walls are leaning toward the back of the building. The North wall is leaning worse than the South wall. There doesn't seem to be a problem with the level on the front and rear walls (leaning to either side. They ARE both leaning back, due to the lean back of the side walls). I haven't dared to look underneath and see what the builder used for floor joists... I am afraid I'll find he used 2x4s there as well.

I knew all this before I put a purchase offer on the place. I have time available to me to do these things.


----------



## Latestarter

Hey Jan, I may be coming up to NC here in the next several weeks to visit Mel's breeder. Dates aren't firm yet but it would be after the weekend of Nov 6th as I'm having a cook out here on the 6th for some local BYH folks. So what would 1/2 a steer or a whole steer cost me total; cut/vac-packed and frozen. And what would the approximate finished weight be for each. I have several (4) 120 qt coolers, and I'm sure the meat would be fine in them for the 20 hour drive back down here. price per pound is nice, but I need to know what the total cost will be and what the total finished weight will be... approximately. When it comes to beef, I (personally) really typically only use rib eyes or NY strips, 85% hamburger, and that's about it. I guess if I had them I'd cook a few roasts, and maybe do some ribs on the BBQ. If it all works out, maybe we'll get to meet and I'll get some meat


----------



## Baymule

I really think I would dismantle that building and rebuild it. A moron built it and it will never be right. You're talking about putting a bandaid on a slashed jugular.....

If you do decide to buy some beef from @farmerjan maybe you could convince her to freeze some bottles of ice for you. That way, as they thaw, your packages of meat wont be sitting in water.


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## farmerjan

Okay, this is approx....Steers will weigh 800 to 1000 live, so the hanging weight will be 4-500 lbs.;  problem is I don't know if I can get a kill date.  Let me see what is available from the butcher I like to use as he is close and does a good job. I usually suggest filets and NY strips and stay away from T-bones and anything with bone in as it takes up freezer space...  They were scheduled to go after the first of the year, since I wasn't in a rush for my beef and the original "buyers" didn't want to spend the money before the holidays.  Sometimes he has a cancellation, so I will call him tomorrow and see about that first.  If you wanted a whole steer, I would say in the neighborhood of 1500....I will pay the butcher costs etc; cut to your preferences.  You will be getting about 250 lbs actual meat and I can get back all the bones etc that you want (for Mel and soup etc) and the beef fat which there is very little extra since they are more lean.  Usually a half will fit in one of the BIG coolers, (mine are maybe 160 qt???) no ice or anything... so in the 4 coolers, you should have room for a whole one with plenty of ice etc.  I can get a bunch of bottles to freeze full of water to help the cause.  Let me see about a kill date first....I hope that he will be there tomorrow being sat....although it is bow season, they might be around...Maybe if nothing else, we could meet up, and I could bring you a few pieces from my last one and if you like it, a future trip could be planned....I also have a mennonite that I take beef to and have hot dogs, several kinds of bologna, beef snack sticks in several flavors, chipped beef, and such done.  It's not cheap, in the neighborhood of 3.00 lb extra....but I liked the idea of having my own meat in my "processed" stuff.  I love sweet lebanon bologna and chipped beef on toast (SOS yeah haha) and just hate to buy things like hot dogs when you don't know (and don't really want to know...) what is in them....I did about 150 lbs of stuff processed 2 years ago with "old" meat from the freezer; stuff that was left over from the previous year when I was getting ready to kill again.  I tried nearly everything he made - usually a minimum of 10 lbs per each type of process, and have recommended him to several people. The chipped beef is REALLY good, the lebanon bologna tastes better than deli, and the hot dogs can be plain or with your choice of cheese in them.  There must be some places down there that do that sort of stuff...Let's see what I can find out tomorrow first....


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## farmerjan

We are getting ready to bring them home from pasture in the next week or two so can get them weighed to give you a better idea of what their size is and a little more accurate weight and cost...


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## Latestarter

I'm OK with waiting till early next year and making another trip. The way you posted, I thought this was a "right now or soon" sort of situation. I'd be more than willing/happy to purchase some of what you've already got on a trial basis to determine if I want to go forward with a whole steer. Bones for soup and Mel would be great. I do like bologna and hot dogs, so that's great too. Never really been big on SOS but do like sausage gravy on biscuits. I'll PM you shortly before I hit the road and see if we can arrange a meet up while I'm up that way. Does that work for you? Maybe I'll share some of the meat with the other folks down this way and if they want to go in on it they can?


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## Latestarter

So I have the house all opened up. I'm sitting here in front of 2 large opened windows listening to the neighbor's dogs barking and just realized I'm shivering... Only wearing a pair of jogging shorts. Outside temp is right at 50 with a light breeze. I'm gonna sleep good tonight! My pillows are right under 2 opened windows in the MBR so fresh cold air to breath all night wile under a light down blanket. my favorite sleeping situation! But for now, I think I need to get a sweat shirt on or something.

OK, sweatshirt on, big old mug of hot chocolate made and a couple of toasted english muffins with cinnamon and sugar for a snack. If I hadn't already been in the jacuzzi once tonight, I'd be thinking about heading back out for another soak! It's always best when it's cold outside.


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## Baymule

I love Texas fall/winter!


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> LOL Home on the range... yup, it's been official since last week. All closed and the problems and issue are now all mine! I knew the truck repair was going to have to happen but pretended to myself that I could put it off indefinitely... Of course we all know how that works... and how it turns out in the end. $3,088.00 later I have my truck back. Not sure, but it seems this fix also fixed my speedometer. Didn't know, but it may have gotten it's input from the front transfer case. My tractor down payment money is dwindling fast... And I have a barn to build as well and home upgrades/repairs.  Might have to pick up a few lottery tickets.
> 
> I used to do a lot of high altitude camping/hunting in late fall early winter, snow/ice/mud, goat trials and all that good stuff. Many places I went I would not have gotten to or back out of without 4 wheel drive. Even with the 4x4, there were a couple times I didn't think I was getting back out . Never got to the point that I had to chain up, but there were a couple times when it came real close. I do keep a set in the truck for emergency situations. Other than that, the 4x4 isn't really "needed" down on the farm too much... IF you have a tractor or dozer to pull/push stumps. I use the truck in 4 wheel drive to pull stumps. Not as effective as a dozer/back hoe or tractor, but gets the job done in a pinch. Having posi-traction/locking differential in 4 low helps also as there's no more wheel spin on one side.
> 
> Bruce, when they built the outbuilding, the contractor took a LOT of shortcuts... I mean a LOT. It's a ~32'x16' bldg & they did lap siding directly to the stud walls with no OSB or house wrap. Since there's only one small nail at the top of each lap into each stud, the studs have the ability to move laterally and "fold" like an accordian would (think dominoes falling, but all at once, to one side or the other). In order to keep that from happening you need a single piece of wood (4x8 sheet of OSB for instance) with multiple nails vertically in each stud to keep that (and all other) stud(s) vertical and unable to move/fold side to side.
> 
> In addition, one front corner is substantially lower than the rest of the floor and I believe the entire front of the building is in fact, lower than the back. The one front window won't close as the window frame is no longer square... one side is much lower than the other at the low corner side. So I need to jack the front of the building up to level the floor and the side walls at the base before I winch the top of the building forward to pull the wall studs back vertical. Then I need to brace the side walls internally and remove all the lap siding and do house wrap and OSB before putting the laps back on.
> 
> They ran the electrical wire in the gap provided by the lap siding, between the 2x4 studs and the siding, not through drilled holes in the studs, so I'm going to need to re-wire the bldg as well before I can really "finish" the outside walls...
> 
> They built platforms for ceiling height storage at either end, but they weren't built or anchored properly, and will probably need to be taken down and re-done. They will also most likely need to come down as they used 2x4 studs for the roof and there's no low rafter horizontal tie in or support like with a typical truss so the peak of the roof is slowly sinking as the roof rafters push the front and back walls out. So I'll probably need to use a jack on the roof peak beam while using a come along to pull the front and back walls back in to the proper distance apart, and then probably use a fabricated metal plate outside the header/top plate and up against several of the rafter ends, and then wire front to back with wire & turnbuckle to hold them in proper placement.
> 
> Seriously... I've contemplated if it wouldn't be easier (though more expensive) to just take the building down to nothing but floor joists, then jack up the floor piers and pour concrete footers under them to level the floor, re-raise the walls, and re build the roof with a proper truss system. No matter how you look at it, I've got a bit of work to do to fix it. Both side walls are leaning toward the back of the building. The North wall is leaning worse than the South wall. There doesn't seem to be a problem with the level on the front and rear walls (leaning to either side. They ARE both leaning back, due to the lean back of the side walls). I haven't dared to look underneath and see what the builder used for floor joists... I am afraid I'll find he used 2x4s there as well.
> 
> I knew all this before I put a purchase offer on the place. I have time available to me to do these things.





Holy TOTALLY ILLEGAL AND UNSAFE BATMAN! 

Since it is an unheated shed, I don't know of a good reason to use house wrap. Presumably that is done to deal with the difference in humidity and temperature on the 2 sides of a wall that is finished on the inside. If you have open studs on the inside, I think it is "breathing" better and less likely to rot any of the wood as it sits with no sheet goods on the outside and no wrap. 

Sure sounds like you have a serious foundation problem there though. If you can get that fixed, there is no stronger shape than a triangle. You should be able to square the building and then keep it that way with angle bracing on the inside. Corner to corner both directions on all walls except the front with the doors. 

2x4 rafters on a 16' wide structure? Quite undersized unless that roof has a serious pitch. Does sound like another place to make triangles with rafter ties after the building is squared.


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## babsbag

@Bruce
Why no bracing on the front wall with the doors?
 In CA, since it is earthquake country, we have to have on sheet of plywood as a shear wall for 'x' number of linear feet of wall, I don't remember how many feet exactly.  Our garage has two 8' doors on the front and we had to have a plywood shear wall in between them and on each corner. Diagonal bracing is no longer good enough. 

At least I know that when my manufactured home falls down in a an earthquake I will have a garage to live in.


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## Latestarter

I think he was saying that corner to corner bracing won't work on the front wall as it would cross right in front of the door. It essentially forms an "X" to keep the whole square. The roof pitch is not steep at all, hence the issue.


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## babsbag

Ah...duh...that makes sense.


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## Bruce

Yeah, what @Latestarter said  Depending on how wide the door is, cross bracing the walls between the door frame and the side wall could be useful.

With such a shallow roof, I can see why you mentioned trusses. I guess you could convert the existing rafters to trusses by adding the necessary wood. I'm not a structural engineer but I would guess the 16' horizontal pieces would have to be larger than 2x4 to carry the load from the peak of the roof out to the walls since I'm sure you don't want any posts running down the middle of the shed, nor do you want to watch those pieces of wood start to bow down


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## farmerjan

No, it wasn't a last minute on losing the sale of the steer, it was just the whole aggravation of them wanting it then not wanting it etc.  I just don't really want to get stuck with the two  so was basically venting a bit.  One of the reasons I am doing less and less direct sales and only raising for myself and selling the feeders off the beef herd at the stockyard sales.  They are gone, I get a check and done.  You get these complaints from buyers, and I have gotten so aggravated with some of it since they would have the same issues if they raised it themselves.  Sold a half steer to someone, took it to the slaughter plant.  They worked with the butcher to get it cut the way they wanted.  I picked it up and delivered it as they had a little car and it was close, so easy to put the coolers on the back of my truck and just do it.  It cost them 1000 total, beef processing everything.  They weighed every piece of meat after I had delivered it and then said that they didn't get enough meat.  They went to the butcher, and tried to tell them that there wasn't enough meat, and that the animal should have dressed at 62% of live weight and should have given them closer to 45% total weight in edible meat.  This according to USDA figures.  The butcher told them that 25-30% tops on final return to home on the meat and that was somewhat dependent on whether they had alot of bone in steaks etc.  They were very unhappy, I got a bank check, took it back to them, got the meat and that was it.  It really soured me and the meat was very tender and I ate every bit of it.  It averaged out to nearly 10.00/lb. as there were no bones in any cuts (like t-bones) but this was also when feeders were bringing 2.50 lb at the market.  Then when you have someone cancel out like this one did recently, it just makes you want to say no more.   No wonder some of the places get the high prices they do, you have to deal with alot of b.s.  and so many people only want the good cuts.  Hey I like  steak too, but that is not only what you get....
Don't mind me, I'll get over it !!!


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## Latestarter

I completely understand but have to be honest Jan... That's one of the things that makes it difficult for me, or has in the past... I'm not "made of money" and I'm not one of those "all natural, pay big $$ to know what you're eating and where it came from and how it was raised etc" folks.  I can buy pretty decent, high quality rib eye steak, which is my preferred cut for (normally) about $10/pound or less, and get bone in even cheaper per pound (I actually prefer bone in as IMHO it adds substantial flavor and tenderness to the meat when cooked). I don't have to worry about all those other less desirable/tough cuts and parts/pieces that I don't ever use. The only other cut/steaks I've bought over the past 2 decades is NY strip (my daughters fave cut) and an occasional T-bone if there aren't rib eyes available and I really want a steak.

When I buy hamburger, which I do use and like, I prefer 85% lean, (I'll go to 90% or 80% if there's no 85%, but rarely if ever leaner or fatter) and I don't think I've ever paid more than ~$5/pound for that and mostly much less. I think I've bought one roast in the past 5 years and that was a rib roast. I've bought 2 racks of beef ribs in the past 2 decades. I don't normally make beef based soups so don't buy beef bones. I rarely make beef stew. Mostly because the stew beef you buy in the stores virtually never comes out tender and is normally grainy and tough.

Generally when I'm buying meat, I buy large quantities when it's on sale and then break it down to individual servings and freeze it. In CO before moving down here, I would buy rib eyes at $5.99/lb (or sometimes less on real good sales) and NY strips for $4.99/lb. I'd spend several hundred dollars and have enough steak to last me till the next sale 4-6 months later.  So for me, though I'd love to eat "all natural", non GMO, no antibiotics, no growth hormones, grass fed, etc, meats... If I have to pay $10+/lb for it, I can't see spending it on stew or hamburger, I'd rather spend it on the cuts I like to (and know I will) eat.

So these are some of the reasons I've never gone in on those whole cow or 1/2 cow deals. I'd get a lot of meat (like more than 1/2 the total weight) that I don't normally use, and the price per pound is substantially higher for all but the most expensive cuts, than what I'd have to pay in a grocery store or even at a butcher shop for the same cuts. 

It would obviously be different if I raised the beef and had it slaughtered and butchered... Then I'd pretty much keep the (bone in) rib eyes & strips, tenderloins, a couple of roasts, some thin sliced meat to make jerky, some limited stew meat, and grind the rest to burger. I "might" keep the tongue (for me to try), liver & kidneys & some bones (for Mel), but have no interest whatever in tripe or brain or any of the more exotic organs or "edible" parts.

Having said all that, and having never bought a 1/2 or whole "all natural" cow, I WOULD like the opportunity to buy some of your beef Jan and try it. I might find that I need to change my view/perspective. And aside from that, it would be nice to meet another BYH'er


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## farmerjan

Don't blame you for your "buying practices" of on sale and freezing in your size pkg for use etc.  If I didn't raise my own that is how I would do it too.  I don't cook alot of roasts, but when I do, try to cook it rare so I can slice for roast beef sandwiches.  The stew meat is usually very tender when slow cooked in a stew and I have often cut it smaller and "stir-fried" it and do not need to get out a hacksaw to cut it to eat....haha.  Thing is, you can get it cut anyway you want and can get cube steaks, thin steaks, no roasts, mostly all ground beef and steaks, etc..  But yes there are cuts of meat most people don't normally get that you learn to use/cook.  It is amazing how we have gotten away from the "total use" of an animal that is butchered by being able to pick and choose the cuts we want.  And I also totally understand not wanting to spend so much per pound AVG. for say 40% of it to be hamburger....But again, I cannot eat hamburger from walmart or most anywhere else and next to never eat beef out except at a BBQ place on occasion.....The jerseys have a slightly sweeter flavor to their meat and marble at a little bit younger age and hold the tenderness longer than alot of breeds.  If you have a little time, look up on cattle today about some of the tenderness ratings, they are up near the top like aubrac (sp?) cattle.  Anyway, not trying to talk you into anything, I will worry about what to do with it after the holidays and if I have room, may just take some more of this past years beef up to the mennonite and get more beef sticks and hot dogs and chipped beef made and other stuff as once it is vacuum packed it will keep for a couple of years in the freezer with no problem.  Still, if I can make the time work, would love to try to get together with you and whomever else for a meal and gab fest and bring you some to try.  I like to know where my food comes from and I am getting more picky as I get older.  I realize that the whole "natural, grassfed, know your source" movement is for the more affluent folks, but I figure that if they can spend it on electronics and expensive "toys" they ought to spend it on food instead of the mindset that food needs to be cheap in this country.  One of my dairy farmers just got back from a trip to the switzerland/germany  area; to visit a farmer who has bought several embryos from his reg holstein cattle. They talked about how costly food was there and how much more it cost to live in general and that people don't have all the big trucks and stuff; and that there are still many 20-50 cow dairies and that the farmers can make a decent living on a farm like that, because they get paid a decent price for their milk. He said that they got a real education on things like priorities.  Interesting. 
Let me know when your plans are firmed up to come east; and if I can manage it, would like to try to come south to NC and meet up with you and any other BYH members that can manage to rendezvous somewhere....


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## NH homesteader

It is an interesting thing in our country these days. I am one of those people that cares  where my food comes from but can't afford those prices.  So my family very rarely eats beef.  We raise and eat pork,  chicken and turkey and we eat venison stew instead of beef stew. No plans to raise cattle here so  we will have to see if we like lamb and/or goat meat!


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## Latestarter

Well, I just got back from a round robin drive. Took a trip over to Winnsboro to the Jerseygirl Dairy  http://jerseygirlsmilk.com/ to buy some raw milk. I got the address from @Devonviolet and have wanted to get some. I had raw milk once back when I was about 14 or so and still remember how rich and sweet it was. I tried a small sample and bought 2 gallons. Now trying to finish the store bought gallon as quick as possible so I can start drinking "real" milk.

Anyway, Jan, as I was pulling up into the store yard, they had dozens of jersey bull calves in small enclosures with igloo houses for sale. They're selling them as day olds for $80 or $80 + $1.50/day after that. I asked because I'd want weaned calves rather than having to bottle feed twice a day. So I could get the calves for ~$225-235 each at ~90 days old. I don't know how that is for a price... They also had a couple of heifers available. Most were still well below weaning age but I could reserve them and get them once weaned. I explained that I intended to put them on pasture and just raise them there with little to no grain and they said it would take 2-3 years (with no grain) for them to mature to full size/butcher weights. They also said they are smaller than typical beef cattle and will yield less meat but that it's good meat. I asked if they ever do crosses and they said yes, they have, with angus bulls and a couple of other breeds, but I don't think they had any cross calves right now.

My kids were basically raised on venison... I couldn't afford red meat back then either. Haven't had deer now in a number of years and I do miss it. After I get this place up and running, I too hope to feed myself from my own raised animals. Chicken, turkey, pork, goat, sheep, and possibly beef. If I can afford to get a pond put in, I hope to have bass and catfish as well down the road. I also hope to be able to hunt deer on the property down the road.


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## NH homesteader

Forgive the potentially dumb question,  but what kind of deer live there? We are surrounded  by apple trees so the deer love it here. We usually hunt on our property.  Last year I looked out my window on the last day of hunting season and a buck was munching in the backyard. My husband ran out and got it before we even had our coffee! It was funny. 

My husband aims for younger  bucks because the taste gets a bit strong for me with older ones! 

Anyway there's nothing  that tastes better than veggies from your own garden,   milk and meat from your own animals. You are going to love it. For all the frustrations I wouldn't have it any other way!


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## farmerjan

MARKETING!!!!......Those jersey bull calves here are worth 20.00 if that, and it will cost in the neighborhood of 100 to 150 to get them to weaned size. They are bringing maybe .60 lb at the stockyards right now for anything from 200-600 lbs.  Thing is, none of the dairy breeds will do well without grain/protein inputs of some kind until they are in the 500 lb. range.  We have bred the dairy animals for concentrated feed inputs for so long in this country that they do not do well without it until they have some size.  I do not turn out any calves on just grass until they are in the 500+ lb range.  Most all beef calves are not weaned off their mothers until 500-650 lbs.  They get all the milk from the cow, learn to eat grass and anything else they want to try, and get a more balanced nutrition until their gut/rumen can handle strictly roughage.  If you were to wean them at 90 days, then put them on grass, the rumen would not be very well developed and they would get a "pot belly" that would be hard to overcome for at least a year.  We call it "hay gut" here and is a sign that a dairy, or even a beef calf, did not get a good start on a cow or fed enough concentrated feed to actually "nourish" the body.  They are often stunted and "poor doers".  Honestly, you would be better off finding a couple of steers or even heifers in the 5-6 wt range or even bigger, if you wanted something to graze.  I would suggest in the spring, and not too early as prices are often higher earlier, get a couple of even bigger calves 6-8wt. that you can feed for the season and then sell one in the fall and kill the other.  Right now they are bringing in the 1.00 lb range+/-  and heifers are less.  Find out what is the more popular breeds, but stay away from anything that has much brahma influence as the meat is not as tender.  Around here herefords and red cattle are discounted and you can buy a red one for .20 less per lb than a black one.  This is angus country....Maybe get with greybeard as he is from TX somewhere I think, and he might be able to help you to get something that would suit....he referred me to the cattletalk forum and I have really learned alot about prices and things in different parts of the country.  We ate venison also as kids, and I like it just fine but my son doesn't care much for hunting and I don't so rely on the generosity of some of the farmers around.  I like it, especially stew and marinated steaks and mix the burger as it is often dry for my taste.  The jerseys have spoiled me.


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## farmerjan

We have white-tail deer here, there are actually some elk in southwestern Va also.  Mixed opnions on them, re-introduced and I have heard pros and cons from people.  There is also a big bisn ranch that sells alot of animals;  breeding, butcher, meat...they are awesome but don't make them mad because they will go through anything...


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## farmerjan

bisn=bison!!!


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## NH homesteader

Bison are more than a little intimidating! My husband's cousin likes elk but he's one of those big game hunting obsessed people! He swears he heard one in the woods in NH one day...


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## Latestarter

There was a small herd of elk in upstate NY years and years ago, and they have been successfully reintroduced to TN, KY, and western VA. They could have easily migrated north into PA. They were native to the east coast back before the big western migration of the white man. So it's not entirely out of the question that there "could" be elk in NH/VT western MA and even ME. As big animals, it would be tough for them to survive as they would get poached quite readily for their meat/antlers. The thing is, as human density increases and gun control freaks ban guns and hunting, it actually becomes much easier for them to expand and spread their range, much like several other species have done... read black bears, coyotes, wolves, mountain lions, etc. Elk are primarily grazers and actually prefer prairie over mountains but hunting pressure and loss of habitat pushed them "up" into the mountains. In the evenings, they tend to come out of the woods into meadows to graze.

In East TX is white tailed deer. Out west they have both White Tail and Mule deer. In some areas, there are cross breeds. Most cross are white tail buck and mule doe as white tail bucks actively chase does in heat and mule deer bucks don't... So I guess you could see how that would work out. I actually love elk meat. It's much more tender and mild tasting than typical venison, though still very lean compared to beef. And bison, well, they are soooooo much tastier and healthier for you than beef. They are also, IMHO, tastier and more tender than venison or elk. But yeah... you really do NOT want to piss one off. virtually no fence will stop one when it sets its mind to go somewhere.   is right!

Thanks for the heads up Jan. Greybeard had already said he would intro me to some breeders/cattle folks he knows and I'll go that route. It's really funny to me that the animals are judged by the color of their hide, red vs black etc... but it seems that happens in other areas of reality as well. Not going there, just a thought. I think I'll stick with a beef breed or cross that leans that way and buy one (them) a little larger.


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## babsbag

I can buy a day old Jersey bull for 4.00

@Latestarter, if you have never had "home grown" beef you are in for a treat. I bought some from a friend of my sisters and from one other person and it is butter knife tender right out of the pkg. We do use all the cuts of beef we can get but I draw the line at organs...I don't eat any of them. But the tongue... Bar-b-qued tongue is delicious.


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## farmerjan

NH homesteader said:


> Bison are more than a little intimidating! My husband's cousin likes elk but he's one of those big game hunting obsessed people! He swears he heard one in the woods in NH one day...


My parents are in monroe NH along the CT river and they have seen moose and a couple of years ago one of the neighbors got one and he used the boom on the logging truck to get it up high enough to work it.  They say that you don't want to get them mad either....


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## NH homesteader

Nope you sure don't! We see them fairly frequently actually. My husband was just telling a story right before I read this about  how they used to wake up to all their horses in the front lawn because a moose would run through the field and take out  all their electric fencing! 

Also we have a friend who,  when he was younger and dumber,  happened upon a bull moose in the road. He didn't move,  so our friend honked his horn.  BAD  PLAN! Moose charged him,  he had to floor it in reverse to get away!


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## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> It is an interesting thing in our country these days. I am one of those people that cares  where my food comes from but can't afford those prices.  So my family very rarely eats beef.  We raise and eat pork,  chicken and turkey and we eat venison stew instead of beef stew. No plans to raise cattle here so  we will have to see if we like lamb and/or goat meat!



Sounds like you need to get a mini beef cattle breed  Not that I have even a millionth of a second of experience with same:

https://bigpictureagriculture.blogspot.com/2015/12/10-miniature-cattle-breeds-for-your.html



farmerjan said:


> bisn=bison!!!



There is an edit function on your posts, you can fix errors found after posting and we would be none the wiser


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## NH homesteader

Haha! Nope no cows for us. I do like the idea of a Dexter but not going to happen! I don't do well with horse and cow sized animals. Goats and sheep are perfect for me! (and I don't even have full sized goats!)


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## Mike CHS

I knew what bisn meant and just assumed you were abbreviating.


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## Bruce

Yeah, I suppose. Even a mini weighs many times what a goat or sheep weighs. I look at the alpacas and can't even imagine having a llama and a llama would be 50% - 75% the weight of a mini cow. OK, no mini cows


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## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> Sounds like you need to get a mini beef cattle breed  Not that I have even a millionth of a second of experience with same:
> 
> https://bigpictureagriculture.blogspot.com/2015/12/10-miniature-cattle-breeds-for-your.html
> 
> 
> 
> There is an edit function on your posts, you can fix errors found after posting and we would be none the wiser


Okay, I will try it.  I get to typing so fast sometimes and even though I try to proofread before I actually post, I sometimes miss....Thanks

The mini beef breeds seem to have awfully big price tags on them that I have seen....Maybe not everywhere.


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## farmerjan

NH homesteader said:


> Nope you sure don't! We see them fairly frequently actually. My husband was just telling a story right before I read this about  how they used to wake up to all their horses in the front lawn because a moose would run through the field and take out  all their electric fencing!
> 
> Also we have a friend who,  when he was younger and dumber,  happened upon a bull moose in the road. He didn't move,  so our friend honked his horn.  BAD  PLAN! Moose charged him,  he had to floor it in reverse to get away!


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## farmerjan

I see the edit , guess I have to do it within a short period of time?


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## Mike CHS

Jan - we thought about  beef but I'm at the age that I don't want to handle a critter that weighs several hundred weight more than I do.   We have gotten to the point that we use sheep as our primary meat source and don't miss beef in the least.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> In East TX is white tailed deer. Out west they have both White Tail and Mule deer. In some areas, there are cross breeds. Most cross are white tail buck and mule doe as white tail bucks actively chase does in heat and mule deer bucks don't... So I guess you could see how that would work out. I actually love elk meat. It's much more tender and mild tasting than typical venison, though still very lean compared to beef.


Not just whitetail and mule deer. There are elk in Tx too.
Texas and elk have had a very long and trouble history. Yes, elk are native to Texas, and were here in great numbers when the Europeans first explored Texas. There are still free ranging elk in west Texas in the Guadalupe, Sierra Diablo, Glass, Wylie, Eagle, Davis and Chinati mountains of the Trans-Pecos.  I used to live in San Angelo and we would take weekend trips out to the Davis Mountains and saw a lot grazing along the back roads. TP&WD estimates the free ranging elk in Texas to be around 1600 in number, not counting what are on high fence hunting ranches in the western and south central counties. Prior to 1997, elk were a game species in Texas. BUT, TP&WD some 40 years ago, re-introduced desert bighorn sheep to West Texas and determined that their efforts would be mitigated because the sheep and elk would be competing for forage. For somewhat obscure reasons, TP&WD sought and got a declaration from the Tx legislature, that elk in Texas were an "exotic' species, not native to Texas, because both elk and bighorn sheep had been hunted out by 1900. Since TP&WD manages wildlife thru seasons and bag limits on game animals, the declaration as an exotic meant that elk could be hunted year round with no limits, saying  “Exotic ungulate populations will be controlled at the lowest level possible, with the goal of total elimination.”.  

 There has been an ongoing attempt to get a new piece of legislation passed, forcing TP&WD to treat elk as a game species--almost passed in 2014. Hopefully, it will next session. As a game species, elk would have a hunting season and bag limit--in other words, a true management plan, ensuring the Tx elk population will at least survive, if not prosper.


Texas also has a growing population of another exotic called Axis deer. They are smaller than white tail but have larger antlers. There are about 6000 of these in south central Texas and you just need a hunting lic and a non-game stamp, but can kill as many as you can haul off in your truck--same as elk.
Axis deer:


----------



## babsbag

farmerjan said:


> I see the edit , guess I have to do it within a short period of time?



You can do it anytime, I have done it weeks later. I have no problems with mistakes that other people make but I bothers me to see one of my own. 

That Axis deer is way to pretty to shoot. I would not make a good hunter.


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## Bruce

Yeah, something just seems wrong with shooting a deer that still has its "baby spots" 


@farmerjan - the only difference between doing the edit pretty soon after posting and weeks or even months later is the stealth factor. There will be an "edited at" message added to it if you don't do it relatively quickly. Not sure how many minutes that is.


----------



## NH homesteader

Wow that deer is gorgeous. I hope they manage to get that legislation through for the elks.  Seems absurd.


----------



## Latestarter

Speaking of deer... I saw my first one on the property this morning when I finally crawled out of bed around 9:30... A nice medium sized buck up in the front field. He was walking from the road end toward the house and about 1/2 way he turned and jumped the fence, walked across the driveway and walked into the woods. He had no issues jumping the barbed wire fence. My eyes hadn't cleared yet and I didn't have binocs or a rifle scope handy but I could see the curve of his rack and I'd estimate he was a 4-6 point. When he turned he was about 100 yards from me. I'd guess he was in the 150-175 pound range, so not "small" but no monster either. He would have cooked up just fine I'm sure    Not licensed this year... not a resident yet.


----------



## NH homesteader

Don't need a license in NH to get a deer on your own property in season.  I know this because I haven't gotten mine yet! 

How are things on the homestead? Haven't seen any updates!


----------



## Latestarter

Still being lazy... temps still pretty high during the day. Will really kick my butt into gear once the cooler weather sets in. Have been pricing farm equipment (tractor w/bush hog vs zero turn mower) and barns. Will need to do some dirt work to get the placement area level and graded for proper drainage. which of course the bucket loader tractor would be immensely helpful with...


----------



## Mike CHS

Have you checked on the license requirements?  Property owners in Tennessee don't need a license to hunt their own land either and you can take one a day (anterless) if they are around. 

I can't imagine doing the majority of jobs around our place without the front end loader.  I've abused it enough that I have it thinking it is a dozer.  We even pushed over a bunch of cherry trees 6-8 inches in diameter when it was raining a lot.  I tried to push over a 5 inch locust the other day and I swear I heard that tree laughing when I gave up and drove away.


----------



## farmerjan

Mike CHS said:


> Have you checked on the license requirements?  Property owners in Tennessee don't need a license to hunt their own land either and you can take one a day (anterless) if they are around.
> 
> I can't imagine doing the majority of jobs around our place without the front end loader.  I've abused it enough that I have it thinking it is a dozer.  We even pushed over a bunch of cherry trees 6-8 inches in diameter when it was raining a lot.  I tried to push over a 5 inch locust the other day and I swear I heard that tree laughing when I gave up and drove away.


Yeah, locust will do that to you!!!


----------



## greybeard

In Texas, you DO need a license to hunt even on your own property, tho there are exceptions:
_
*Exceptions*
A hunting license is not required to hunt the following:

_


_

Coyotes, if the coyotes are attacking, about to attack or have recently attacked livestock, domestic animals or fowl.

Depredating feral hogs, if a landowner (resident or non-resident) or landowner's agent or lessee is taking feral hogs causing depredation on the landowner's land.

Fur-bearing animals, if the hunter possesses a trapper's license or if the fur-bearing animals are causing depredation.
_
_*Note:* All laws and regulations governing hunter education requirements still apply._

http://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/hunting/
For white tail deer, some of the regs changed last year, and they are being serious about enforcing the 13" antler spread portion of the change..
http://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/regs/animals/white-tailed-deer
.


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## Bruce

Um, how is one to know the antler spread is 13"+ until they can put their hands on the animal (which means it is already dead)?


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## OneFineAcre

WhiteTail deer in TX are a lot smaller body size than further north
175-200 lbs for a mature buck
A mature buck in Michigan would be 400 lbs


----------



## OneFineAcre

Bruce said:


> Um, how is one to know the antler spread is 13"+ until they can put their hands on the animal (which means it is already dead)?


One would need to have observed a few of them
Make sure the antlers are wider than his ears


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Um, how is one to know the antler spread is 13"+ until they can put their hands on the animal (which means it is already dead)?


Yeah really. I guess you need one of those measuring scopes.


----------



## Latestarter

I guess they figure if you're not sure, you'd best not shoot. Which is beneficial to the herd, which is what they're trying to accomplish in the first place. They want to make sure the bucks have a couple of years to really mature. When you've been hunting/observing deer for a while, you kinda learn how to gauge the antler size/dimensions.


----------



## babsbag

I just eat "domesticated deer". No license required, no antlers to worry about, and I can have them anytime of the year.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> I guess they figure if you're not sure, you'd best not shoot. Which is beneficial to the herd, which is what they're trying to accomplish in the first place. They want to make sure the bucks have a couple of years to really mature. When you've been hunting/observing deer for a while, you kinda learn how to gauge the antler size/dimensions.



Very true.
I used to be in a club and we had a rule that a buck had to be 14".


----------



## Latestarter

Today's the day! Going to have my first real house guests!  @Baymule @Devonviolet & @Ferguson K and their respective DHs will be here today for grilled rib eyes, iced tea and conversation. Mel is so excited... He's fast asleep in the living room  He's a great watchdog... As soon as I tell him we have visitors, he watches them, tail wagging and hoping for ear scratches 

The steaks are seasoned and sitting on a covered platter on the kitchen counter coming to room temperature. I have a couple more steaks in the fridge if anyone else wants to come on over. They came in packages of 3 so I opened 3 packages to get the 7 I needed. If nobody else wants to come eat them, I guess I'll just force myself to eat grilled rib eye for the next couple of days. That would be terrible, no? 

So the screen/aerator fell out of the kitchen faucet end. I bought a replacement and while trying to "break" the old one free, I guess I damaged the portion above the aerator. Now when I turn the faucet on above minimum pressure, it sprays out horizontally  in addition to coming out the end. It's also been leaking from the base into the sink, so I guess tomorrow I'll be making a trip to Lowes and breaking out the torch to replace the kitchen faucet. I pretty much expected I would need to do it right from the start anyway. I actually wanted to, but was putting it off. I like it when something happens to make it so I can't procrastinate anymore. Now I really have no choice... gotta get it done.


----------



## NH homesteader

I'll be right over.  Sounds delicious


----------



## greybeard

OneFineAcre said:


> Very true.
> I used to be in a club and we had a rule that a buck had to be 14".


The general consensus is that the new rule was proposed and pushed thru by the big high $$$ hunting clubs, pandering to city folks in search of a wall hanger.


----------



## babsbag

My kitchen faucet literally wore through right at the front of the faucet and it would spray my in the face when I turned it on. Taking the aerator off helped with that problem a little. I wrapped it with duct tape for a while and then finally decided that it was time to replace the stainless steel sink that I hated and faucet and tile the window sill and install a garbage disposal. Of course I had to cut the granite counter top to get the new sink in and boy was the house a mess, granite dust everywhere. I did this the week before DH's birthday and company coming; good timing on my part.  But very very pleased with the results.  I went with a separate sprayer instead of one built into the faucet as I wanted a longer hose so I could water the plants in the window.  I really do hate all things related to plumbing.


----------



## OneFineAcre

You all enjoy your cook out


----------



## Southern by choice

So cool to have BYH family around!

You have done a good job keeping Mel a socialized companion!
I cannot wait to see him!

The meal and company sound fantastic!


----------



## OneFineAcre

greybeard said:


> The general consensus is that the new rule was proposed and pushed thru by the big high $$$ hunting clubs, pandering to city folks in search of a wall hanger.



Since white tail spend their life on a fairly limited area seems odd that the clubs would have cared what other people did on their property


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Dang, why couldn't you have moved a little further south?  Ribeye sounds really good right now!  Ya'll have a good time and eat one for me! (medium rare, please)


----------



## goatgurl

ok, officially jealous.  good food, good friends, life is good.  youall have fun.


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## babsbag

No one ever comes to CA   Well, that isn't entirely true...ragdollcatlady lives about 6 hours from me. 

Enjoy the company and the steak and give mine to Mel.


----------



## Mini Horses

Way too far to make it there tonight.....maybe another time.    Enjoy!   Share some pics and we can all feel a little closer -- I'll pretend to smell the steaks.  I like garlic on mine.


----------



## Bruce

You need to get out the torch to replace a faucet?? How the heck old is it? I can't remember seeing a faucet that was soldered into the piping.


----------



## Devonviolet

Well, we are back home. We had a great time!

The steak was delicious and Bay's hashbrown casserole was yummy as well. We brought a tossed salad & homemade Ranch Dressing, which everyone seemed to like. However, I didn't get to finish my meal.  

I have a bad tendency to get food caught in my esophagus, and wouldn't you know that it would happen today.   I will spare all the gory details. But, suffice it to say it wouldn't go down, so I couldnt finish my delicious steak!   Although, I did get to take a doggy bag home, so will still get to enjoy the rest of my meal . . . only later.

Mel was his charming self!  He is such a sweetie. Every time I see him, I am amazed at how big he is!  He came up to me for some cuddles & scritches and when he sat down, his head came up to my waist! 

Good food, good fellowship! A great time for all!


----------



## Baymule

We're back home, got the animals fed, put the chickens up, started a load of clothes in the washer, kicked back in our recliners with full bellies. @Latestarter can sure cook a delicious steak! My husband raved about the steaks all the way home. He is picky about steak, and said those were the best and cooked to perfection!  We had a great time, good food, good company and a good dog! We love Mel! He is HUGE and I think he is all heart, what a love bug! He made the rounds getting love from all of us, he sure is a sweetie.

Joe showed us around his place, I now have serious pasture envy. Big beautiful trees spreading their branches for shade, lots of grass for future livestock, a really nice place. And he has a storm shelter. I really have tornado shelter envy now! Out buildings that will sure be useful, although one has Leaning Tower of Pisa syndrome. That will be an interesting one to fix, for sure! 

While Joe showed us around, a big platter of rib eyes was on the kitchen counter. The weather was cool and crisp, all the windows were open and the door to the back yard was open, so Mel could come and go as he pleased. @Devonviolet and her husband came in while we were walking about and spied the platter of steaks. Now for those of you who haven't had the pleasure of meeting Mel, he can walk up to the kitchen counter and lay his massive head on it. He didn't even touch those steaks! What a good boy!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Sounds like ya'll had a great day!


----------



## Latestarter

So there ya have it @Southernbychoice Not ALL LGDs can't be trusted around counter foods  eyewitness account presented! Picture a big old platter with 7 - 3/4-1 lb seasoned rib eyes sitting right there on the counter, and Mel is great! Truthfully I forgot I had them sitting up there within easy reach for him had he wanted them, when I took Bay and her hubby on the tour. Mel was more interested in standing at the backyard fence watching us and wishing he could be out there trying to tackle us. Give him running room and he's like a guided missile running out and then back and grazing you as he passes.

@frustratedearthmother you would have been most welcome to come up and join in the meal, and @goatgurl you could have come down from arklahoma and joined in as well! I did (try to) throw out an open invite to any who wanted to come. In my mind, I was thinking the more the merrier! I had the steaks and grill space! Maybe next time I hope?! 

@Bruce the valves for the kitchen sink are very old, probably original, and though the hot one was removed and soldered back on to add a new piece of pipe (and 3/8" braided water line) & on/off valve for the dishwasher, the one for the cold water has never been touched. It has a 3/8" copper pipe that "T"s off the 1/2" pipe and leads up to the cold water attachment behind the sink. They then put in one of those "tap in" valves for the refer water feed on that 3/8" pipe to the faucet. I intend to heat and remove the old valve and cut out the 3/8" cold water feeder pipe and replace it with 2 new valves; one with an on/off for the refer and another with a 3/8" fitting to use braided line to the faucet. In addition, the hand sprayer isn't even hooked up on this faucet... no idea what that's all about. There WILL be an operational one on the replacement.

@babsbag your new faucet and sprayer as well as sink and tile look awesome! I don't "mind" doing plumbing, but know how and would rather do it myself and save hundreds of dollars over paying a plummer to do it. That extends only so far as the drain as I have no desire to work on the "downstream" end of the plumbing, especially where black water is concerned. Oh, and no need to worry... Mel had lots of high quality protein and fat this evening  I took all the scraps and mixed with a little hot water then mixed that with his dry food. He promptly finished all of it! He won't be hungry again for a little bit   He's actually sleeping like a (snoring) rock, right over ---> there 

Not sure what happened with @Ferguson K She and her DH were supposed to be coming but weren't able to make it. Haven't heard from them but hope it was nothing serious. As reported, the visit was great! No need to repeat what the others have already posted. I will be having grilled rib eyes over the next couple of days as they've already been defrosted... can't freeze them again. Not going to complain too much about that though. My favorite piece of meat! 

Next time I do this I hope some other folks can make it, even if they are a little further away. Y'all know who you are!


----------



## Ferguson K

I'm sorry we didn't make it. 

I have been talking about this all week. We had our whole day planned around it. 

I thought. 

Sorry. I'll come visit soon!


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> So there ya have it @Southernbychoice Not ALL LGDs can't be trusted around counter foods  eyewitness account presented! Picture a big old platter with 7 - 3/4-1 lb seasoned rib eyes sitting right there on the counter, and Mel is great! Truthfully I forgot I had them sitting up there within easy reach for him had he wanted them, when I took Bay and her hubby on the tour. Mel was more interested in standing at the backyard fence watching us and wishing he could be out there trying to tackle us. Give him running room and he's like a guided missile running out and then back and grazing you as he passes.



 I say ... good job! 
But you know how it is.. it will be the one time, when you least expect it. 

So glad you all had a nice time together! 
I hope I can find something as wonderful as you have found.
It sounds so beautiful and functional!


----------



## babsbag

@Latestarter since I have discovered these new plumbing fittings called Shark Bites I don't mind it as much as I used to. DH still does all the sweating of fittings around here but in a pinch I know I can go and get a Shark Bite and make it work. They are $$$ so we try not to use them. Our manufactured home is all PEX or CPVC so I don't think there is any copper in here at all but then that is whole new learning curve. The dairy trailers have copper though.  It just seems that plumbing takes multiple trips to the hardware store but I was very pleased that the drains under the old sink were the PERFECT height for the garbage disposal connection. Truly one of the easiest I have ever done. The only plumber we have hired in 35 years of marriage was roto-rooter on New Years Eve for the main line to the street. DIY is all we know around here.


----------



## Latestarter

I don't ever expect it to happen, but you KNOW Southern, you are ALWAYS welcome to come for a visit! I know it would make you so happy inside to see Mel and his environment and how he lives. He has a good life! I do hope to be headed your way in the not too distant future for a Mel's "mom" visit. I'll contact you first of course to make sure of timing and all. And of course you are almost assuredly right... the one time that I least expect it is when Mel will decide to "help himself" to a meal... Of course like you, I'll be ticked, but will immediately forgive (but NOT forget!).


----------



## Latestarter

I used fittings similar to that on the butyl pipes in the home I just sold when I had to do plumbing mods under the kitchen sink and dishwasher there. I don't know that they exist for copper though... Have to go the old fashioned way with flux and silver solder. No biggie though... just a very uncomfortable position to work in/from.


----------



## babsbag

They exist for copper, they are called Shark Bites, but a lot more money.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I used fittings similar to that on the butyl pipes in the home I just sold when I had to do plumbing mods under the kitchen sink and dishwasher there. I don't know that they exist for copper though... Have to go the old fashioned way with flux and silver solder. No biggie though... just a very uncomfortable position to work in/from.



Ya know Joe, we older guys don't do real well laying on our backs under a sink in a cabinet. Our backs don't like it, our eyes don't focus so well. Pay for the connectors 




Ferguson K said:


> I'm sorry we didn't make it.
> 
> I have been talking about this all week. We had our whole day planned around it.
> 
> I thought.
> 
> Sorry. I'll come visit soon!



If you hurry there are still steaks left!


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## Latestarter

Ya know Bruce, you are absolutely right!


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## Bruce

My back knows it too! My back speaks from experience.


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## Latestarter

OK, just did a search on the shark bite system... certified for underground and behind walls... good to go on Pex and copper. yup, absolutely the way to go. Will def check into that! If I can find the fittings I need, I 'll spend the $$ to use them. Thanks Babs!


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## babsbag

They make fittings like that for PVC too, but even I can't be that lazy; besides I would miss the purple primer and blue glue all over my hands.   Plumbers for hire must hate Shark Bites and I agree about the isometric moves that are required for working under sinks, I just don't bend in some of those required directions. Actually buying a few fittings wouldn't be that bad, an entire house would be another thing.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh yes! Absolutely. like having blukote spray all over your forearms! That purple primer stains very well! And the glue actually glues!


----------



## Mini Horses

When I built my house 17 yrs ago I had to insist on copper, every plumber wanted PVC.   But found a good plumber who did know how to work copper & I have been very happy with it.    Now, I do have PVC underground to barn & all the fields...gotta love that primer & glue!    My best discovery this past year was that they make a cutter for the PVC pipes that works like scissors kind of  -- it cuts , holds, you squeeze handles again, it holds, etc.    Yes, I know about a saw but in some places they just don't fit!!   Certain this thing wouldn't work for me (small hands, enough pressure, etc.)  but it did and was amazingly easier than I had thought.  It is in my little "winter ER kit"  which I keep with all sizes of fittings, glue, a little propane heater, extra pipe insulation, etc., in the garage --- just in case!!   We all know this crap happens at the worse times  -- cold, dark midnight & stores closed.    

Because I had to think about those darned steaks all night, I'm cooking a great beef roast right now!   Yeah, not steak but I don't have time to do a grill tonight.   This will work just fine as it is a nice beef taste anyway.  I'll do a gravy & rice thing, slice some for lunches, soup with rest.   I'll be eating it a couple days!  Yum!!


----------



## babsbag

@Mini Horses I don't know which cutters you have but the bigger ones with the longer handles take less hand strength to use. When the pipe is cold and hard the longer handles are really nice. 

PVC water lines aren't allowed inside of houses in CA. I'm not sure they even allow CPVC or PEX except in manufactured homes. PVC can and usually does go from the well or meter to the home.


----------



## Devonviolet

m-m-m . . . Nothing better than steak 'n eggs for breakfast!  Unless it's freshly grilled Rib-eye off Latestarter's massive grill.    

@Mini Horses, your pot roast with gravy & rice sounds good. However Latestarter gifted us with a couple of those leftover Rib-eye steaks, so we will be firing up our grill tonight.


----------



## Latestarter

Not sure where I mentioned it but my son and family are coming for Xmas and my D-in-law requested I do a roast beef for the big dinner, along with onion/mushroom gravy, mashed spuds... you know, the whole big dinner deal.   I don't normally do roasts of beef as I've never really been able to "size down" and end up cooking 5 lb or larger roasts, and I'm sorry, but freezing/thawing already cooked beef just doesn't work for me and eating off a roast for 4-5 days gets "old"...  Although I do have a habit of sharing my meat meals with Mel, and since I prefer to eat meat, he gets plenty of good meal additions.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I sure know what ya mean about the 'Cutting Down' the recipe....I still fix spaghetti or lasagna that'll feed 6...even though it is just the 2 of us........and we end up eating it days after too.....I'll eat bf roast at any 'Stage'....unless it is dried out and moldy........no Mel here so it is usually up to me to Finish those things off!!


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so I just spoke with @goatgurl up in Arklahoma and she has been breeding Lamanchas for a very long time. She's pretty busy over the next 2 weeks or so but after that will have a "free" period where we're planning that I can get up there to see & potentially get some goats!  

I've also previously been in contact with @animalmom and hope to visit/meet her and meet some of her animals for potential kids next spring summer. 

Time to go buy fencing and posts! How exciting is that?


----------



## Hens and Roos

that's great!


----------



## NH homesteader

Yay! It's really getting real now huh?


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## CntryBoy777

Don't forget the Gloves!!


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> OK, so I just spoke with @goatgurl up in Arklahoma and she has been breeding Lamanchas for a very long time. She's pretty busy over the next 2 weeks or so but after that will have a "free" period where we're planning that I can get up there to see & potentially get some goats!
> 
> I've also previously been in contact with @animalmom and hope to visit/meet her and meet some of her animals for potential kids next spring summer.
> 
> Time to go buy fencing and posts! How exciting is that?



Congrats on the potential goats!

VERY exciting. And work. Where is your tractor with a post hole digger on the 3 point? Built my first H brace today, haven't wired it yet. No tractor so no posthole digger on the 3 point. Looks a lot easier on the videos


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Hmmm, sounds like we should have a BYH "conference" next summer/fall...


----------



## Devonviolet

That's awesome!  I vote you get Falina & Ruby!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Woo hoo - can't wait to see pics!  You're gonna be a great goat dad!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Not sure where I mentioned it but my son and family are coming for Xmas and my D-in-law requested I do a roast beef for the big dinner, along with onion/mushroom gravy, mashed spuds... you know, the whole big dinner deal.   I don't normally do roasts of beef as I've never really been able to "size down" and end up cooking 5 lb or larger roasts, and I'm sorry, but freezing/thawing already cooked beef just doesn't work for me and eating off a roast for 4-5 days gets "old"...  Although I do have a habit of sharing my meat meals with Mel, and since I prefer to eat meat, he gets plenty of good meal additions.



just 2 of us here too.  Occasionally I will halve a boneless chuck roast and freeze 1/2 of it, but usually cook the whole thing in one big skillet, vegetables and gravy included in the same skillet cooked at the same time.
2nd day is leftover, but 3rd day it gets more vegetables, incl some stewed tomatoes and thrown in the crock pot for veg/beef soup.


----------



## farmerjan

Nothing like the prospect of getting animals to get one off their "duff" and get going on the fence/barn/pen/whatever project..  haha!!!


----------



## babsbag

Always bring home the animals before the pen is ready...that is just the right way to do it.


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## Latestarter

Works for chickens and chicks... not sure I want goats in the spare bedroom though


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## Devonviolet

Man, can I relate!!!


----------



## babsbag

My first goats spent the night in a horse trailer so we could build the pen the next day. Chicks were in the dining room in a rabbit cage wrapped in towels with a desk lamp shining on them.  

About that first goat pen...We just threw up some no climb wire between some over spaced t-post. Then we built a 16x16 corral that we locked them in at night and during the day while I was at work. When I was home they were in the bigger area but I checked on them constantly and didn't trust the fence at all.

Well, DH was gone all week so he didn't know my routine. That weekend I had to be gone almost all day to go to a bee class and bring home my first bees so he was in charge of the goats. He let them out and took a nap. Lo and behold when he woke up no goats to be found, they had "walked" right over the fence.  He looked and looked and nothing. When I called him on my way home I could tell something was wrong and then he tells me that he lost the goats.  I got home after dark so no more searching. The next day we drive all over checking out every goat herd we could see and no goats. We finally put up a sign on the road and we get a call; the goats have been found, 3 miles away. Those little brats went on a walkabout and I was shocked that they didn't become coyote dinner that night they were out.  A lady found them in her yard eating her rose bushes and locked them in her chicken coop. Silly goats. 

We put up a hot wire the next day. 

I strongly suggest good fences before you get goats.


----------



## TAH

x4


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Works for chickens and chicks... not sure I want goats in the spare bedroom though


I bet Mel would love to have his goats in the house!

Yep, LOTS of new "chicken parents" don't realize how long it takes to build a proper coop and how short a time it takes for chicks to grow. It is so common that over on BYC we (Joe included  ) jest with the people who do it "wrong" by building the coop THEN getting the chicks. 

In my case the girls were in a spare WAY HOT bathroom, raised in the bathtub. I had thought that the horse stall that I was converting was almost turnkey given the open areas were already covered with 2x4 welded wire or chicken wire. Just needed to frame in a full door. Then I started reading about how chicken wire is not suitable for protection, only for containment. The chicks went out at about 3.5 weeks.


----------



## Baymule

My usual M.O. is to get the animal FIRST and figure out what to do with it LATER. I am the type who jumps in the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim...... If it has STUPID IDEA in flashing neon on it, it's MINE!!!


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## NH homesteader

Yes we've done that a couple of times also...  It's actually the only way I can get my husband to get fencing and shelter up quickly...  If there's no reason to hurry he won't! Lol


----------



## CntryBoy777

When we were in Florida....a guy asked me if I wanted his 5 hens and 1 roo....I said yes....he was moving and I had a couple of wks before I was to get them...well, during those wks I had a heart attack...so, I was unable to work on anything....then the guy told me that he was bringing them the next day....so, I had to construct a pen and roost in a day...had no Help at home...everybody was working or in school...needless to say we got the chickens...and I built a pen without having to dig a single post hole...


----------



## Baymule




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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> OK, so I just spoke with @goatgurl up in Arklahoma and she has been breeding Lamanchas for a very long time. She's pretty busy over the next 2 weeks or so but after that will have a "free" period where we're planning that I can get up there to see & potentially get some goats!
> 
> I've also previously been in contact with @animalmom and hope to visit/meet her and meet some of her animals for potential kids next spring summer.
> 
> Time to go buy fencing and posts! How exciting is that?


That sounds great


----------



## Latestarter

Really hate being sick   Started getting a tickle at the back of the throat yesterday evening. Woke up @4:30 coughing and sinus issues/post nasal & with throat congestion... Took 3000 mg of vit C &just finished a glass of OJ. Now I'll go make some tea and I think watch a movie and snooze in my recliner for a while. No idea where I picked this up...


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## Mike CHS

We had company last month and they both were coughing and feverish.  Teresa sterilized the house for a couple of days after they left.  

Get better as none of the to-do list is going away while you heal.


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## Hens and Roos

Hope you feel better!


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## Devonviolet

I'm sorry to hear you have a cold. It didn't come from us. We are fine. 

I have a list of things that we do when we feel the first twinges of a cold. Last winter I started to get a cold & immediately went to my list. I was already feeling better by day 3 & well on the mend by day 5. Friends who got the same thing were coughing up gunk and miserable (with sinus infections & bronchitis) 2 weeks later.

If you are interested, I can send you the list.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

UGH!  So sorry to hear you're under the weather.  Take a couple hours off, snooze a bit, drink some hot tea and then get your butt to work!


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## lcertuche

Sorry about the cold. I have allergies this time of year. Thank you ragweed, NOT!


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## CntryBoy777

Well it sounds to me that the Move and change in your Environment has caught up with ya....the Air is different where ya are in Texas than where you were in Colorado and the body has some adjustments to acclimate....


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## babsbag

Sorry about being sick, that stinks. Since I don't work in a school any more I seldom get sick, but Airborne is my 'go to' whenever I feel like I might be getting a cold or I am around someone that is. Hope you feel better soon, you have to get ready for those goats.


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## TAH

Hope the goats may be a fit...

Hope you start to feel well soon .

When ever we get sick there is nine of us so.It takes weeks before every one is better. One time 2 of us got the flu, as soon as one of us got better the others would come down it was 3-4 before any of us were completely better.


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## NH homesteader

When I was teaching I would get sick every vacation.  Going from crazy busy to actual "downtime"  it all caught up with me and I'd get sick. Perhaps you need to relax for a second and your head is forcing you to do it!


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## Baymule

So sorry that you are feeling cruddy. Nothing like a head cold to make you miserable while looking out the window at all the things you'd rather be doing. GET WELL!

Around here, the cure for a cruddy cold is Mamaw's Magic Chicken Broth!


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## Latestarter

So last night the cold moved deep down in my chest. Felt it all the way up into one ear this morning. Hacked most of it up this morning. Found some left over antibiotics from the last deep chest cold I got and have been using them. It's helped. Expect it will be mostly gone by the end of the weekend.   Have had to close the house up at night the past couple of nights as the temp has fallen into the 40s. Tonight it's supposed to be down to 41. The first cold night I didn't catch it in time and had to turn the heat on for a bit to get the inside temp from the upper 50s back to the upper 60s. Mid 60s in here right now and that's OK. I have the one bedroom window right above my head cracked just a bit for fresh air. They say that helps a cold, and my down bed cover keeps me plenty warm.

So I was scratching Mel behind the ears and felt a bump... Hmmmm digging a little proved it to be his first tick. It had recently attached but had not started swelling yet. It has obviously been removed. I have to guess he picked it up the last time I let him outside the backyard when we walked the back pasture. He has a lot of fur acreage to check    but I haven't found any others yet  

The cooler weather hasn't bothered him really. He hasn't started filling in his winter coat yet but has started eating again. He has himself a foot deep hole dug over beside the fence and he lays down in that all curled up most of the night. He can see the back field and up the driveway from there. He does get up every now and again and walk around the back of the house to check the other side. He has another smaller hole dug next to the heat pump, then his day time lounging sand box right below the deck under the bradford pear tree next to the deck.

Tomorrow is a final relaxation day of football, then Monday I get serious about outside work around here. Gotta start laying out pastures and cross fencing and run in shelter locations, mowing yard and fields, marking out where water lines need to be buried and run to hydrants... all that good kinda stuff.


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## Bruce

Sorry you are sick Joe! Never fun, hope it improves quickly.

Sounds like it is time for a passel of chickens and Guinea Hens to patrol the property for ticks 

Did Mel have "watching" holes dug at the house in Colorado? Sure sounds like his natural instincts are working even though he doesn't yet have a flock to watch.

May you find ZERO rocks when putting in your fence and water lines


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## CntryBoy777

Sure hope ya get to feeling Better there!!....glad to hear Mel is settlin in to the New home and is Watchin out for ya....I know you are Glad to finally get things going towards getting a plan together....'Grunt Work'........it will be Spring before ya know it and those Goats will be showing Up for ya!!..


----------



## Mini Horses

Hope you are feeling better!    was 24 here this AM.   Frost like a light snow had happened.   3 hrs later, sunny and 45, on way to low 60s.   There ya go!!  Sun works!!!!!  

Can you rent a little ditcher in your area?  I did when I put in lines several years ago.  WHAT a blessing that thing was!!!  And fast.


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## Baymule

When we ran water and electric lines, the electrician rented a ditcher and it sure cut down on the labor. You are smart to lay it all out and get a good picture of what you want and where you want it. Hope you get to feeling better. Did you know fish antibiotics are the same thing as people antibiotics and you can buy them without prescription? One of the feed stores we go to has them on a shelf. Google them.


----------



## Mini Horses

Yes on Fish meds.  Jeffers sells them.   Sulfa drugs will kill a respiratory or bladder issue really fast, in most cases.  Cocci in goats, also.


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## Mike CHS

I did not know that about Fish meds.

We find it cheaper when digging trenchs to hire the contractor who dug the half mile of water line for us.  I can rent a skid steer with a trencher for $325 a day or pay him what we did the other day when we ran water down to the shop where we will have a lambing area. 

He charged $225 to come out and lay the line for us.


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Found some left over antibiotics from the last deep chest cold I got and have been using them. It's helped. Expect it will be mostly gone by the end of the weekend.



I'm sorry your cold moved down into your lungs.  That's miserable!

You may already know this. But, a word of caution about taking a partial prescription of antibiotics. For your own sake get yourself down to the VA in the morning, so you can be seen by a doctor.

There is a reason doctors give antibiotics for a set amount of time. It takes that long to totally erradicate the infection. If you stop too soon, you may feel better, but only the weaker bugs are killed off.  The stronger bugs survive & become resistant to the antibiotic.

The next time you need antibiotics, the resistant bug might not respond to the simpler antibiotic. If you repeatedly do that, you could set yourself up for a life threatening, untreatable infection. Taking a partial left over prescription could have the same effect.

Working as a nurse, I saw too many patients, in intensive care with antibiotic resistant lung infections, due to not finishing their prescription, because they felt better.

The problem with taking antibiotics on your own, is that some antibiotics don't work on certain bugs. One of the reasons doctors do sputum labs, is so they can do a "culture & sensitivity"(C&S). To do that, they expose mulitiple culture media plates, to the sputum (or any other infection) so they can grow the bacteria in the medium).  Then they expose the bacteria to different antibiotics, and watch to see which antibiotic is most effective at killing the bacteria.


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## Ferguson K

Devonviolet said:


> Working as a nurse, I saw too many patients, in intensive care with antibiotic resistant lung infections, due to not finishing their prescription, because they felt better.




Two years ago I got a staph infection that almost didn't respond to the antibiotics. for that very reason. I almost lost a good chunk of leg.


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## NH homesteader

Yeah until the world ends and the doctors stop giving prescriptions,  I won't be giving myself any antibiotics! 

Thanks @Devonviolet for the medical explanation!


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## Devonviolet

Ferguson K said:


> Two years ago I got a staph infection that almost didn't respond to the antibiotics. for that very reason. I almost lost a good chunk of leg.


Wow! @Ferguson K I'm so sorry to hear about your staph infection. Those can be deadly . . . literally. We had a mother of ten get a staph infection that spread to her trunk and all four extremities. She eventually died from it.

When you combine improperly taken and/or prescribed antibiotics with CAFO (factory livestock/fish farming) antibiotics, you can end up with antibiotic resistant "Super Bugs" which include "Flesh Eating Bacteria". With the current trend we are eventually going to end up with no meds to fight infections.

My preference is to build up our immune systems with healthy foods (such as with cultured foods: Kefir, Kombucha & Cultured vegetables) as well as with medicinal herbs & supplements. That way, our body can fight the infection, rather than depend on antibiotics to kill it off.


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## norseofcourse

@Latestarter - I sure hope you feel better soon!

@Devonviolet - thank you for posting about antibiotics... as soon as I saw latestarter say he was taking some leftover antibiotics, I started looking for the    and the      !


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## Mike CHS

That is funny!


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## Southern by choice

Sure hope you get better soon!
When I was at the docs a cuple of weeks ago about my shouder DH was hacking up a storm. Nurse looked at him and said- YOU are seeing the Doc! Dh argued. She argued. I said "he's fine" - it is called reverse psycology   as soon as I said that he agreed to see the Doc! Dr looked at him and said whoa! Wrote him a script - he was really bad off.  I worry about pneumonia. The older we get the more susceptible. 

So glad you are enjoying your new place! Sounds like Mel is too!
Mel sure does get gourmet service! 
I think Mel will adapt well to livestock. You have a great bond with him and I imagine he will want to please you. Keep in mind though- sometimes these great dogs help too much. 

I saw you are working out getting goats! 
This is wonderful!


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## OneFineAcre

Been busy myself for the last week but just caught up
You don't have to get all of that cross fencing done at once
Take your time
As things evolve sometimes you may come up with a better plan


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## Latestarter

Thanks all. Feeling much better health wise  but very depressed that my team lost at home to Seattle tonight . My team is really over rated by the talking heads   as they hadn't really faced a substantial team till this evening. Now they have a better feel for where they're really weak and hopefully they can get some of that fixed over what remains of the season. I'd like to see them in Houston come February.   I know about super bugs but quite often drugs are over prescribed and if they hadn't already eliminated the culprit, then the patient would not in fact be cured.

Gonna start with one ~1-1.5 acre pasture with a basic run-in for them to get out of the weather. Then will build a 2nd pasture with a run in that backs up to the earlier one. Once I get the barn done I'll use the run-ins as hay stations for feeding. I'll put a long water trough/barrel/tank that gets split by fencing between the 2 pastures, right beside the run-in. First goats will go into P#1 and rotate back and forth till the 2nd goats come. Between then I'll get a 3rd pasture fenced and that way I can keep the new goats separate from the older goats for at least 30 days to enable testing/observation and inoculations and all that good stuff before I put them together. 

Then will come time for a legit barn and P#4 and then it will be time for some lambs . Someplace in there I also need to find time to build a chicken coop and turkey enclosure (probably going to be hoop coops for ease and cost) as well as a pig pen. I expect to have a fully functioning farm by this time next year and my first home grown meat heading for freezer duty and 2018's incubating in momma animals.


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## Bruce

Whoa, BIG plans, short timeframe.

OK, step 1, buy a tractor with an FEL, posthole digger and maybe a backhoe to dig water lines. Been putting in 6" wood posts and while I have no idea what your ground is like compared to mine, even the easy ones take time. I actually had one that wasn't ledge, didn't have any rocks bigger than a few inches and wasn't sticky clay. It was a clay sand mix. NO IDEA where that came from, it was only 8' from a post that had a 1' ball of concrete on the bottom of it, concrete barely below the surface. I got the post out with nothing more than my leverage. The hole had been dug 3' filled first with large stone then pea stone. Hit wet at 3'. Let me tell you THAT was a pain to hand dig because the sides kept collapsing in. The hole was likely 3x the volume of removed "dirt" than necessary. Auger on a 3 point would have been able to do it easily enough. Probably not so much with the holes where I found decent size rocks.


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## NH homesteader

Wow you are really going for it aren't you? How many goats total are you thinking? Are you keeping breeding stock of all these animals or will you buy some on a yearly basis? That's a lot of work! Kudos to you! 

Bummer on the loss.  I hadn't checked yet to see.  Don't hate me but I just have to say it...  I really hate our QB. He's a whiny brat. I know,  I know,  he's amazing at his sport but he's just so unlikable. I don't say that publicly in real life for fear of being drawn and quartered but I just don't like the man. Otherwise I love the team,  love the coach...


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## farmerjan

One suggestion I have, and it may not apply to your area, drive the posts don't dig;  we no longer dig post holes but do all our posts with a post driver on the tractor.  No tamping, no worrying about it staying tight.  It makes the posts get done alot faster and that's a big deal when you do as many as we do in a year, whether it is on rented property or some of ours.  We also do some custom work for people who want fencing...just the posts many times and they do their own wire.  But we can do both.  Sometimes do some trading off of labor, theirs then ours etc...You might want to see if you can find someone to just drive the posts for you.  Around here, things are winding down for fence building, and you can find guys who are willing to do some things that they can fit in between, like a day of driving posts.  This way the posts are sitting there for when you want to get to the next section of fence.   I'd see about getting the perimeter done in just the posts, or at least one or two sides, and then you can put up wire as you get to it, but the "hard part" is already done.  We have a line of posts up at one place that have been there 2 years, and plan to try to get the fence up this year.


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## Mini Horses

Glad you are better.   I don't watch sports, so don't even know names for most and it sure saves time and tempers.   


Personally, I think a year for your acquisitions and plans are in line with your time.   Should work out well!   So, what do you plan with the goats?   Meat, milk, wooded land clearing?   somehow, I can't envision you milking each day for long   but lots of care & concern.    I'm certain the birds will be meat & egg suppliers. 

Get in gear so we have some pics to enjoy!   Of course, more of Mel is always welcome.   What a huge lovebug he is.


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## Southern by choice

farmerjan said:


> One suggestion I have, and it may not apply to your area, drive the posts don't dig;



Some years back I came across an article - I think it was from am ag extension services office- anyway, they said the same thing. Driving the post is faster, more efficient and holds up better. I thought it was quite interesting. You are the only person I have heard mention this.


Latestarter- be careful to not go too fast. We see this all too often. We see hard earned money and lots of time go into something only for the person to find out everything was in the wrong place.
You really learn more about what you want and what you need once you have livestock. You also will get a better understanding of your land.

It will save you time and money in the long run.


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> One suggestion I have, and it may not apply to your area, drive the posts don't dig;  we no longer dig post holes but do all our posts with a post driver on the tractor.  No tamping, no worrying about it staying tight.
> ......


And just how well do posts drive into solid clay strewn with rocks anywhere from a couple of inches to 8, 10 or more inches? I don't think I have to ask how well they drive into solid ledge.


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## Mike CHS

They don't Bruce.  Folks on the flat lands here have posts driven and it is faster.  Friend of ours does that for a living but since it hasn't rained in almost 3 months, driving the posts doesn't work.  The soil is powder and won't hold even a driven post.  Every wooden post they put in now has to have concrete.  I think I mentioned thinking about paying to have the next run hired out until we got the $4500 price tag for a 1000' run.  Being on the farm full time now I can't justify that kind of money when I can do it myself.


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## Bruce

$4,500 Ouch. I'm putting in almost 900' of fence. I think it is running about $1,600 including three 12' gates but not the hotwire and charger so let's round up to $2K (plus a lot of sweat-equity). Combination of 6" wood posts at corners and for gates, T-posts at 10' intervals, 4' field fence and cattle panels.


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## Mike CHS

I have two 330' rolls of Sheep & Goat fence plus all the T-posts so no expense for that 1000' other than sweat.  I'm seriously thinking of going with the Gaucho High-Tensile woven wire on the one after this.  The place where we got our sheep is running that and having no issues with sheep or lambs getting out.  On the plus is the 330' roll weighs less than 100 lbs.


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## Bruce

That weight sure is a plus! Hadn't heard of Gaucho. The < 100# roll is 12.5g/14g wire. They have a stronger 10.5g/12.5g fence that weighs 126#. Still 50# lighter than Redbrand's rough equivalent.


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## Baymule

Joe, look what I found. It might be just what you need to get a barn started.

http://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/5871309597.html

metal carport - $1150 (Nacogdoches)  hide this posting  unhide
< image 1 of 1 >








condition: *new*
make / manufacturer: *USA steel Carports*
model name / number: *Box eave*
size / dimensions: *20x21x9*

QR Code Link to This Post

I got this brand new metal carport for sale 20 wide x 21 long x 9 ft tall on the sides 12 ft tall on the center color red customer ordered but he canceled regular price is $1400 but I'm selling it for $1150


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## babsbag

We have a post hole digger on our tractor and it is USELESS. If you are going to go with one on a three point hitch make sure it has down pressure.  There is no way we could drive posts here, ground is too hard and too many rocks. 

A few months ago I bought a walk behind Bobcat with 2 post hole augers, a trencher and a FEL. Her name is Bobbi and that girl can dig a hole. AMAZING.  She will probably be trenching next weekend for power and gas to the barn.


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## Bruce

My limited understanding of 3 points is that they USED to have down pressure but no longer. Not sure why or when that changed. Does make some things useless. I think you would have to have pretty "soft" ground for the auger to pull itself down rather than requiring a push in that direction. Someone needs to invent a post hole digger that mounts to the FEL, LOTS of down pressure there. 
Too bad you don't live 2,500 miles east @babsbag , Bobbi could be very useful here.

That "carport" does look like a barn starter hit @Baymule, just needs sides and ends.  Make a really nice run-in shed for @Latestarter's planned "back to back" plan as well, just need to run the fence through the middle and voila! It would hold a lot of goats.


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## farmerjan

Just a note, I live in ROCKBRIDGE County, VA; home of the Natural Bridge and a county full of rock and LEDGE.  We still use the post driver and it will find a way down through alot of rocks, not through solid ledge.  And yes it is very dry so right now is not the best time to try to drive posts when it is like hard concrete or powdery..  I just thought it was something that Joe should consider in Tx as I don't know what kind of soil etc he had.  We used one in CT also on the farm I worked at years ago, where there are tons of rocks for all the rock walls and fences that were part of the scenery.  All of our tractors have down pressure on the 3 pt arms, maybe it is just on the larger farm tractors?  The post hole augers and drivers on the front of skid loaders/bobcats are the way most of them are going here now, that do fencing for a living, as they are so versatile and you can get into tight places.  
The going rate here is 4.00 ft for a complete fence...posts, wire, braces, etc.,labor, installed. That's standard woven field fencing, not the goat wire. Gates are figured in extra according to customer wants/needs.  When we can get the fence up in a day or two and need to be doing other things it is definitely worth it to drive the posts.  There are a few places where we use some t-posts inbetween if we can't drive a wood post; and we often put a t-post every other wood post to just make it a little less expensive on interior fences but most all perimeter fences are wood posts.


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## babsbag

Bruce said:


> My limited understanding of 3 points is that they USED to have down pressure but no longer. Not sure why or when that changed.



Pretty sure you can get hydraulic add on kits for some of them but not sure how well they work. Bobbi is amazing. Middle of summer, hardest compacted soil (our driveway) and she went right through, no problem at all.  She is small but mighty. I bought her to clean out the goat barn as she is small and easy to get into tight places. Plus I don't have to worry about getting killed if I tip her over (heaven forbid), I would just let go and be clear of the tractor. Got her used from a rental yard and the trencher and post hole digger were an afterthought put really glad I bought them too.


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## Latestarter

Can you post a few pics of Bobbi in her various configurations please? Also an idea of what she cost would be nice as well.


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## NH homesteader

Lol I thought you were talking about a goat

Apparently I should read threads  in order?


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## babsbag

She has the FEL on right now and I can get a picture tomorrow but for your immediate enjoyment I will just give you the link to the propaganda from Bobcat.  She should have the trencher on this weekend, depends on the weather. I paid about 13,000 for the entire package. She has two augers, a 6" and a 12".  I think she has about 600 hours on her. She will need new tracks soon, probably next summer.  We have a compact John Deere tractor too...Lizzy,  and she certainly has her place.  We have a box scraper, a rototiller, rock rake, forks, backhoe, and disc set for her. But Bobbi gets into tighter places, turns on a dime, easier to change implements, and that post hole digger...   I looked for months before I found Bobbi, they sell fast. My DH drove to WA to get this one, about 8 hours. 

http://www.bobcat.com/loaders/mini-track-loaders/models/mt55/features


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## babsbag

@NH homesteader  Bobbi the goat in various configurations ???


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## NH homesteader

I thought it was a really awkward way to ask for goat  pictures but hey I don't judge


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## Latestarter

Yeah... I need to see some slinky, sexy, goat poses please   Were that the case, I think I might be forced to judge...


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## Latestarter

<frowning mightily>  That looks like a marvelous piece of equipment, and it would actually work quite well for many things I need to get done, much the same things as you need/use it for. The problem is it won't do ALL the things I need to get done, and I can't afford to buy multiple pieces of equipment that do duplicate things.  I've been seriously contemplating buying one of those zero turn mowers with a 50"+ deck to use for field/pasture maintenance as well as the home portion of the property. But for a heavy duty vice back yard lawn version (it's in the 3K+ range) we're talking around/above 5K. That's my 20% down payment for the tractor, or the price of my basic barn structure, or all the various repairs and upgrades I want/need to do to the house, not to mention fencing. 

I may just measure out and mark where all the wood posts will be for the fencing (corners/gates/etc) then try to rent one of those for a weekend and bore all the post holes at one shot. If I can get the trencher I can put in all the water lines at once as well for the various locations I want to put risers. I expect to use T posts between for the runs of fencing.

Thanks for the lead and comments regarding that car port a day or so back. I'd rather wait as the run ins are going to be very simple affairs, nothing special or costly as they will become simple rain covers for the feeders down the road. I'd rather wait and spend my money on the actual barn that I want.


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## HomeOnTheRange

@Latestarter, I thought I would just throw this out there for consideration.  I know at first glance this might not look like an option, but the more I look at this machine and what I truly need to do, it looks better and better.  It sprung to mind when you said you were looking at a zero turn mower.  Have you ever looked at a Ventrac?  I know it does not have a PhD yet, but for a "small" farm it does have its advantages.

Here are some of the "glossies". 
https://www.ventrac.com/products/tractors/4500
https://www.ventrac.com/products/attachments


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## Latestarter

Thanks for the link HOTR. I checked it out and it is pretty interesting. The thing that ticks me off a little is that they don't post pricing     I mean yeah, it's obviously pretty pricey or that would be my guess since they're being secretive about it. Really... these folks need to give consumers a little credit... if the product is as valuable as the price tag, then revealing the price is NOT going to scare away interested potential buyers. And if you need a salesperson to "sell" me the product, then that indicates to me that it's over priced. The nearest dealer is like 4 hours+ away from me.


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## goats&moregoats

From what I have read so far, thi gs are looking up for you. Will have to read all of this thread later tonight. Hope things continue to go well.


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## Mike CHS

I don't know the financials on your end but a lot of the dealers offer zero percent financing.  We had every intention of getting to our place with zero debt but the only way we could get on-off farm/liability/theft insurance on our tractor was through Kubota and they only insured equipment financed through them.  We put a hefty down payment anyway but financed it for a term long enough to make sure we were moved here by then.  Since we were only here 3 days a month that bright orange thing sitting on the hill top might have made a tempting target if our place was more secluded but we wanted the piece of mind.


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## HomeOnTheRange

@Latestarter, here are some prices back in 2014.  Might give you a base.

http://procure.ohio.gov/pricelist/800183revpricelist.pdf


----------



## Latestarter

OUCH! By the time I had the implements it would cost me more than the tractor with implements by a rather wide margin.


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## NH homesteader

Holy price tags! Maybe I'm underestimating what  those can  do..  But that seems extreme.  Or maybe I'm just cheap.  That's likely. Gotta ask my husband about  those,  he'll know whether they're worth  the money or not!


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## babsbag

I paid about 15000 for our John Deere with FEL and then another couple thousand for the box scraper. We already had the tiller and auger and backhoe from an old Ford 1500 that we sold. I got 0% interest financing for 5 years. I don't mine financing with a deal like that.  The bobcat I bought cash when we re-financed our house.


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## Latestarter

Hope everyone up north beinh affected by this winter storm is doing OK... @samssimonsays & @misfitmorgan come to mind initially. The front passed through here starting about 6:30am. Heard some thunder then saw some lightning flashes then heard the rain start so I jumped out of bed and call Mel inside so I wouldn't have wet, muddy dog to deal with later, then went back to bed and tried to get back to sleep... no dice on that. So anyway, it's ab out 20 degrees cooler than it was yesterday so I wore my flip flops out on the back deck to use the spa... Didn't think anything of it and kicked them off right next to the spa and climbed in. After the 1st 1/2 hour I saw Mel over on the lawn chewing on what I thought was a piece of firewood... Ya... no... it was one of those delicious flip flops. 






He is almost 2 years old and hasn't messed with any clothing, shoes or slippers for over a year... Grrrr... <sigh> Oh well they were a size too large and uncomfortable so I was going to replace them anyway.

Got some much needed rain here this morning but it was pretty much over by lunch. I'd hoped it would last through the night and end tomorrow. I believe we got about an inch here. Maybe a little more.


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## samssimonsays

Hahahaha gotta love the sudden and random destroyer mode they can fall into! 

Thank you for the thoughts! I made it home safely. So did my husband. hope y'all get some more rain!


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## TAH

Don't you just love them more when they chew on stuff


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## Goat Whisperer

It's alright, once you start getting a "farm" put together you can kiss your flipflops goodbye!   Haven't worn them since we started farming.

I cant stand it when people want to a visit (you know, a FARM) in flipflops


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## NH homesteader

I used to wear flip flips a lot farming...  My husband always gave me a hard time. Then one day my herd queen stepped on my toe and twisted around and cut a huge slice in my toe.  Ouch!! No more flip flops!


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## TAH

I love wearing flipflops. My dad always use to warn me not to go into the barn or pasture with them. I got stepped on by a horse and almost all of our goats while wearing flips and I still do it. My dad always says, I told you not to, Will you ever learn. I probably won't.


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## CntryBoy777

Well it is Rubber boots here....too many chiggers, ticks, and varied types of mites....not to mention the mud, poo, and slick clay....and the poison ivy, oak, and sumac...thus, the animals...each has a Purpose....


----------



## NH homesteader

Ticks 

Serious tick issues the past few years


----------



## CntryBoy777

Mom always had chickens....but, they had a pr of peafowl, 2 dz guienas, and some turkeys....all free ranged and they never were very bad....not a Poison person...so, that's why we got the birds....and for eggs...for now....but there is always an 'Option' for dinner...besides Fish....


----------



## NH homesteader

I don't like poison but  I really don't like Lyme disease...  So I use Frontline on my dogs.  I only use it for a month in spring and a month in fall though. We stay out of the woods when the ticks are out!


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## CntryBoy777

That's another reason that we Burn too....this is the 1st yr that I have been able to work on the field, because  Dad had a man that cut it for hay...for his cows...but, the man is up in age and doesn't need as much...cause of downscaling...so, Dad turned the Land over to me...to do as I Pleased...he is 94 and a retired CTC E8....so it had to be 'Official'....anyway, keeping the fields cut has Helped tremendously ....this is our 'Starting Out' per se...


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> The front passed through here starting about 6:30am. Heard some thunder then saw some lightning flashes then heard the rain start


Our rain started a while before yours did. We had a couple different really heavy rains pass over, for a total of 3/4".

It's amazing how much rain comes off the roof. One of our rain water collecting water totes (holds 275 gallons) was empty before the rain started. By the time it stopped, the tote was full & overflowing.


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## babsbag

My house is basically 70' x 24' and if I get 25" of rain I year I could harvest 15,709 gallons of water off of my roof and that is assuming that I am only recovering 60% of the water.  Now if I only had a way to store it. We do have a pond that it all goes to by pipe but the pond does not really hold water; someday I might have a real pond made.


----------



## greybeard

HomeOnTheRange said:


> @Latestarter, here are some prices back in 2014.  Might give you a base.
> 
> http://procure.ohio.gov/pricelist/800183revpricelist.pdf


Good lord!! are they gold plated?

That wouldn't last a day on my place, and my place is mostly finished. Ground clearance too low, and no way to mount a fel. I have to have some way to handle hay.

I don't remember how much acreage you have LS, but take the long view--without going overboard, buy what you think you will need in the extreme, not the least you might  can get by with.

Not ready?
Rent a tractor with the implement you need for the fencing. 35-40 hp tractor with PHD to drill holes, and a fel to drive in tee posts. 
Most people do rent trenchers for water lines, tho I plant most of mine with a trench cut with a single blade middle buster on my 3 pt. 

Most of my stuff I bought used, from individuals, from trade-ins at a farm equipment dealership or from the monthly tractor/implement auction down near Beaumont . Didn't go a couple weeks ago and regret it--a 45 hp Leyland tractor went for $100--and it ran & even had good rubber on it. I have one like it--it's a hoss.

And there's always
https://easttexas.craigslist.org/search/grd?query=tractor


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## babsbag

My little John Deere isn't big enough to lift my 1200 lb bale of hay. I wish she were bigger. But when I need that tiller to get in my garden her smaller footprint is nice. I need a bigger tractor...and more implements for my walk behind and then I can sell my JD.  Did I mention needing more money too?


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## babsbag

Flip flops on a farm work at times; like in the garden. I used to wear Croc like clogs all summer but I got tired of pieces of branches and alfalfa coming up through the soles and poking my feet. I also learned that it is much harder to dodge 160 goat hooves than it is to avoid 40. I do wear tennis shoes though, seldom resort to boots except in the winter. Reading about the damage that a rattlesnake bite can do after my dog got bit kind of put a kibosh on my flip flop days on the farm. I have lived with rattlesnakes most of my life but never worried too much...ignorance was bliss.


----------



## greybeard

babsbag said:


> Flip flops on a farm work at times; like in the garden. I used to wear Croc like clogs all summer but I got tired of pieces of branches and alfalfa coming up through the soles and poking my feet. I also learned that it is much harder to dodge 160 goat hooves than it is to avoid 40. I do wear tennis shoes though, seldom resort to boots except in the winter. Reading about the damage that a rattlesnake bite can do after my dog got bit kind of put a kibosh on my flip flop days on the farm. I have lived with rattlesnakes most of my life but never worried too much...ignorance was bliss.


I know a bit about that.
Caution!--ugly old men type feet if you click the thumbnail.
You have been warned. One fang entered in middle toe-other fang went in between toes and missed the flesh--or he was missing a fang. Happened 2011 I believe.

 
copperhead.
2 days later, that left foot, ankle, calf  and up above my knee turned black. It never completely went back down and for whatever reason, the docs decided that calf would be best for harvesting a vein for my 4x bypass last year. 
I'll have to wear a thigh high pressure stocking the rest of my life now.


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## Devonviolet

YIKES!!!  That's really scary @greybeard! Sounds like you could have lost a leg! Black is not a good color after a snake bite! It _is_ surprising they harvested a vein from your left leg. Did they also use vein(s) from your right leg?


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## greybeard

No. They had used the right leg to do the angioplasty a couple days prior to surgery and wanted to leave it alone, even tho they were well aware of the previous serpent bite and tissue damage in the left leg. Not complaining tho--they did a good job on the bypasses, and I probably wouldn't be here otherwise.

The thing about snakebites that I never realized before is just how much the initial bite hurts--instantly. Been thru lots of crap in my life and I have to say it hurt far more than anything else including the lightning strike. Felt like someone used a nail gun on my foot.


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## babsbag

Glad you are still with us. Lightening, snake bite, bypass...how do you feel about cats? Sounds like you are sharing 9 lives with them for sure.  

I really had no idea how much damage a snake bite could do until my dog. I always knew they were poisonous but in my mind it was a trip to the ER for antivenom and all would be well. Not the case. My dog and her pup were fine so maybe a dry strike, IDK. But when the vet was telling me what COULD happen I did some reading. I have much more regard for those rattlers now.


----------



## greybeard

Oh, that is true. Had an interesting job in a faraway place when I was 20/21 standing in the right door of a helo, gettin shot at every other day. I guess the Lord just isn't ready for me yet..

I had a vet tell me to always keep liquid Benadryl around in case a dog got snakebit--said he's seen more die on the way to the vet than anywhere else, but the Benadryl will offset some of the respiratory effects long enough to get to him. Said just "get as much down them as you can as soon as you can and get on the road with 'em". That is probably species of snake dependent tho. I've never seen a rattlesnake here, but plenty of copperheads and moccasins and a few coral snakes. 20 miles from North and East of here the timber rattlers are pretty common tho.


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> Glad you are still with us. Lightening, snake bite, bypass...how do you feel about cats? Sounds like you are sharing 9 lives with them for sure.


    X2


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I know a bit about that.
> Caution!--ugly old men type feet if you click the thumbnail.
> You have been warned. One fang entered in middle toe-other fang went in between toes and missed the flesh--or he was missing a fang. Happened 2011 I believe.
> View attachment 24370
> copperhead.
> 2 days later, that left foot, ankle, calf  and up above my knee turned black. It never completely went back down and for whatever reason, the docs decided that calf would be best for harvesting a vein for my 4x bypass last year.
> I'll have to wear a thigh high pressure stocking the rest of my life now.


Oh my that looks quite uncomfortable. Not sure I would want to see it when it was black!


----------



## Mini Horses

WOW.   Sure that was a trip & 1/2 !

Often horses are bitten on the leg or nose....yep, checking things out get you in trouble!  BUT because a nose is often the strike site and since horses breath only thru their nose  -- you must keep that airway open until vet can help.   A piece of hose stuck up the nostrils will soon be held in place by the swelling!!!    Fortunately I have not had to do this but many have.  Knowing this "do it fast" thing can save their life.

If you are in snake prone areas, you need to know some "basics" about what to do first.    Fortunately I have few types of poisonous snakes in my area -- copperhead, moccasin & rattler -- but moccasin likes water & rattlers wooded or desert.   So  we do OK most of the time.   I HATE snakes...any kind.


----------



## NH homesteader

Yikes, I'll stay in NH thanks.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I used to think that way too @Mini Horses ....but, got to learning about them...and had 3 that I kept for 6yrs as 'Pets' so I could watch them....it is fairly easy to distinguish between the 'Friend or Foe'....they are very Good for rodent control...and the smaller ones for insects....I will try everything I know...to keep from killing one....now, those that are Dangerous we can't have around with the Grandkids coming to visit........the majority of them are certainly Helpful....and some eat Eggs...


----------



## Baymule

My Great Pyrenees kills snakes. She absolutely hates them.

In Texas we have water moccasins, rattlesnakes (tasty when fried), copper heads and coral snakes (red and yella kill a fella, red and black, friend of Jack). My mule stomped a coral snake, I checked her for bite marks and found none.


----------



## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> Hope everyone up north beinh affected by this winter storm is doing OK... @samssimonsays & @misfitmorgan come to mind initially. The front passed through here starting about 6:30am. Heard some thunder then saw some lightning flashes then heard the rain start so I jumped out of bed and call Mel inside so I wouldn't have wet, muddy dog to deal with later, then went back to bed and tried to get back to sleep... no dice on that. So anyway, it's ab out 20 degrees cooler than it was yesterday so I wore my flip flops out on the back deck to use the spa... Didn't think anything of it and kicked them off right next to the spa and climbed in. After the 1st 1/2 hour I saw Mel over on the lawn chewing on what I thought was a piece of firewood... Ya... no... it was one of those delicious flip flops.
> 
> View attachment 24356
> 
> 
> 
> He is almost 2 years old and hasn't messed with any clothing, shoes or slippers for over a year... Grrrr... <sigh> Oh well they were a size too large and uncomfortable so I was going to replace them anyway.
> 
> Got some much needed rain here this morning but it was pretty much over by lunch. I'd hoped it would last through the night and end tomorrow. I believe we got about an inch here. Maybe a little more.





Mel ain't stupid, he knew those tasty flip flops were too big for you, so he was just helping you out. He didn't want you to get a blister or sore feet......   That just shows you how smart Mel is!  We got a half inch of rain out of that little storm, we're sure grateful, it was really dusty here.


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## Goat Whisperer

NC has many many copperheads! Several family members have been bit, one of the cats was bit at least on 4 different occasions. My friend was but on the foot and another friend's tiny 4lb dog was bit on the face-both happened this year. The dog almost died but made it through. 

See them here laying on the rocks and in wood piles every now and then. We generally leave snakes alone but copperheads just need to "get dead".


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## Mini Horses

The only snake I will not attempt to kill is the king snake, black with yellow rings, as they fend off poisonous.   BUT no matter how good with mice, do NOT go for the eggs.   Can't go into a hen house and find them.....dead next time.   These black rat snakes we have here get huge and climb like a lizard.    If they stay away from the chickens, they have a chance.  Otherwise, dead.  May take a while but, dead.  I'm pretty good with a machete.

I've caught possum & hauled 5-6 miles away to release.  Caught some skunk & removed, not catching a snake.  Just how it is.   (have shot a possum, too!)


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## Devonviolet

The only snakes we have seen around here is King snakes.

One day DH came inside and told me he saw Roy in the feed shed.  He said it gave him a start, but once he knew it was Roy, he was okay with him being there. I was puzzled, because we don't know a Roy. He said he was talking about the King Snake!    He's okay with Roy hanging around because he eats mice.

Sometimes Roy is in the feed shed, sometimes he is in the chicken coop. One day DH found Roy in our turkey's nest, with a chicken egg in his mouth.     I can't remember what he did . . . pushed at him with a stuck??? But, Roy dropped the egg and disappeared.  

One day I asked DH if he thought maybe there are more than one King Snakes???  He said, well yes, there could be. It's just easier to call them all Roy!


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## babsbag

We have gopher snakes that look a lot like a rattler, you have to look at the shape of the head and the tip of the tail. No rattles does not mean not a rattle snake but the tail will be blunt; if it goes to a sharp point then not a rattler. We also have King snakes and mountain kings snakes. The mountain king snake is the one that @baymules ditty was written for. Our mountain king snake is red, black and yellow, just like the coral snake but the red and black bands touch each other...red on black, friend of Jacks. We don't have coral snakes, thank goodness.  

My vet told me that Benadryl will do nothing for a rattlesnake bite and that it is not an alleregic histamine type reaction; it is a hemotoxin and the swelling is due to tissue damage.    I know that they sometimes give an antihistamine to people before the antivenom in case they are allergic to that. If an animal or person is bit on an extremity they will normally fare better as the extremity will swell cutting off blood supply and hence the flow of the toxin.


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## CntryBoy777

@babsbag ....what ya say about the tail being blunt or tapered is the distinguishing of whether male or female...blunted is a male and tapered is a female...I had a Sinaloan milksnake...which is akin to a kingsnake and was banded with black, yellow, and red like a California king...the head is the immediate difference between venom and non-venomous....Triangulated is venomous....the coral is the only exception of this because they are not a Pit Viper...this applies to All native species....@Mini Horses we have those grey rat snakes here too....and I do try to relocate them but have killed some too....one was between 8-10' couldn't leave the eggs alone.... it had 3 in it the day I killed it.


----------



## Latestarter

So yesterday (Saturday - my days start around lunch time and end in the wee hours of the morning) I had the opportunity to go and meet @animalmom and her DH. Very nice people for sure! I hope to become an owner of some of her Nigie kids this coming year  She was kind enough to allow me to sample some nice cold Nigie milk   I have been purchasing and drinking raw milk from Jersey cows for the past month and thought that was awesome. Well, I now have a new standard to set as the peak of milk deliciousness  (didn't think that was a word but spellcheck says it is).  Sweeter than the cows milk and absolutely no goatie taste at all. Actually, her bucks were in rut and they didn't smell either.  How she managed that, you'll have to ask her!  So now the waiting begins for me on that front. I hope she'll start a kidding journal (in her copious spare time  Right!) so we can all follow along.  

She also gave me a tour & shared a wealth of information on what worked and didn't work for her from the beginning and moving forward! She's a bit far away so I don't expect to get to visit her regularly, But I hope she'll allow me to come out when her girls start dropping kids  Very exciting!

Today I got to watch my Patriots play the 49ers in CA. It was raining pretty steady most of the first 1/2 of the game. I hope @babsbag got some good moisture out of that. Of course most of it will roll right off, but some might get absorbed... It'll help retention ponds too I guess.

I saw what I thought were cotton mouths when I first came here to walk the property. On reflection I believe they were actually copperheads. They have the "least damaging" venom of the 4 main species here, but I still don't want to get bit by one. Since then I have seen one black racer and nothing else. I know they're here, but they aren't bothering me and I have no intention of bothering them. The land here is pretty perfect for rattlers, and the creek beds/bottoms are known to have cottonmouths. I'm sure there are probably coral snakes here as well. I hope they all get their fill of rats and mice and the babies can have all the crickets and bugs they can catch! I have more of them than I know what to do with. If I could find a snake that would eat hornets and wasps, I'd import a hundred of them! We'll see how I feel when I get chickens... Time will tell.


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## babsbag

In my part of CA we got 4.75" of rain in the last 36 hours. Should be more coming in on Tuesday. Accuweather says that we have had 4.45" so far this month, and yet I had more than that in this last storm alone, and I know that there were some storms that gave me over an inch this last month.  October was about 5" above normal so No. CA is doing ok as far as the drought recovery; So. CA not quite so much. What we need are some cold storms over the Sierra mountains so So. CA will have enough water to steal.


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## Mini Horses

Latestarter, get Guineas.   I miss mine but they are the best bug eater I have ever seen and they are aggressive to things like snakes.....loud and crazy, seems to scare them away from their area.   I've heard they are good eating, also.   They don't coop well but can be trained if done as juveniles.   Happiest in sizeable flock.


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## NH homesteader

Hey @Latestarter our team won! Lol

Well...  We have snow not rain! 

So jealous you moved near all these BYH - ers. So Nigies and Lamanchas your  top choices? Non smelly Nigies if you can arrange it,  right?


----------



## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Hope everyone up north beinh affected by this winter storm is doing OK... @samssimonsays & @misfitmorgan come to mind initially. The front passed through here starting about 6:30am. Heard some thunder then saw some lightning flashes then heard the rain start so I jumped out of bed and call Mel inside so I wouldn't have wet, muddy dog to deal with later, then went back to bed and tried to get back to sleep... no dice on that. So anyway, it's ab out 20 degrees cooler than it was yesterday so I wore my flip flops out on the back deck to use the spa... Didn't think anything of it and kicked them off right next to the spa and climbed in. After the 1st 1/2 hour I saw Mel over on the lawn chewing on what I thought was a piece of firewood... Ya... no... it was one of those delicious flip flops.
> 
> View attachment 24356
> 
> He is almost 2 years old and hasn't messed with any clothing, shoes or slippers for over a year... Grrrr... <sigh> Oh well they were a size too large and uncomfortable so I was going to replace them anyway.
> 
> Got some much needed rain here this morning but it was pretty much over by lunch. I'd hoped it would last through the night and end tomorrow. I believe we got about an inch here. Maybe a little more.



All fine here, we just got a dusting but wow the wind i thought it was gonna take the roof off. Thanks for thinking of us @Latestarter


----------



## Latestarter

It was a tough but easy decision and I had to cancel out on joining the Thanksgiving gather with @Baymule and her fam/friends. This danged cold has come back with a vengeance and is kicking my butt. Sore throat, swollen glands, sinuses, runny nose, chest cold w/heavy wet cough... sounds like flu to me. There's no way I wanted to bring this as a gift to all those folks there.   So looks like it will be Mel and I for turkey day and football. I'm fine and don't mind being "alone". I just wish I could get rid of this cold! I asked Bay if she'd be OK with me coming down for a visit after a week or so when hopefully this cold will be gone. SO I'll get down there again soon.

We had some serious rain here last night. It was sprinkles for most of the day yesterday but after nightfall it got down to business. I need to get a rain gauge but I'm sure we easily got over 2" of rain. Some of the heavy storms that passed over lasted almost an hour. I had a river running down & across my driveway and down through the back yard multiple times. I'm going to need to do some grading here among other things...

Mel spent all day yesterday and last night while it was raining inside. I did make him go out to go to the bathroom a couple times between downpours. I think he has some goat in him... he does NOT like getting wet!   I finally got up and put him outside around 5am when the skies were clear, then went back to bed. I just recently crawled out of bed... I hate being sick. Rarely happens but when it does it just sucks.

I need to go out to the store and pick up a few things... OTC drugs being the most prevalent need. Will pick up some food items as well. I'll try not to share this bug I've got with too many others while I'm out. Sorry but there's no way I'm gonna wait and have to deal with the "black Friday" crazies/crowds.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hope you get over your cold soon!!  DS(14) has a head cold going on here!


----------



## samssimonsays

Hope you are feeling better! That crud has really been going around bad!


----------



## Mike CHS

We don't do Black Friday unless it's online.  We had company yesterday so we had our smoked Thanksgiving turkey yesterday.

Hope you get over the bug soon.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> It was a tough but easy decision and I had to cancel out on joining the Thanksgiving gather with @Baymule and her fam/friends. This danged cold has come back with a vengeance and is kicking my butt. Sore throat, swollen glands, sinuses, runny nose, chest cold w/heavy wet cough... sounds like flu to me. There's no way I wanted to bring this as a gift to all those folks there.   So looks like it will be Mel and I for turkey day and football. I'm fine and don't mind being "alone". I just wish I could get rid of this cold! I asked Bay if she'd be OK with me coming down for a visit after a week or so when hopefully this cold will be gone. SO I'll get down there again soon.
> 
> We had some serious rain here last night. It was sprinkles for most of the day yesterday but after nightfall it got down to business. I need to get a rain gauge but I'm sure we easily got over 2" of rain. Some of the heavy storms that passed over lasted almost an hour. I had a river running down & across my driveway and down through the back yard multiple times. I'm going to need to do some grading here among other things...
> 
> Mel spent all day yesterday and last night while it was raining inside. I did make him go out to go to the bathroom a couple times between downpours. I think he has some goat in him... he does NOT like getting wet!   I finally got up and put him outside around 5am when the skies were clear, then went back to bed. I just recently crawled out of bed... I hate being sick. Rarely happens but when it does it just sucks.
> 
> I need to go out to the store and pick up a few things... OTC drugs being the most prevalent need. Will pick up some food items as well. I'll try not to share this bug I've got with too many others while I'm out. Sorry but there's no way I'm gonna wait and have to deal with the "black Friday" crazies/crowds.



Maybe @Baymule can package up a T-Day dinner with an ice pack and mail it to you, should be there by Saturday   Sorry you are sick. Mel is going to have to put his "big boy pants" on when you get livestock for him to guard. No chilling in the house when there is a job to do.



Mike CHS said:


> *We don't do Black Friday unless it's online*.  We had company yesterday so we had our smoked Thanksgiving turkey yesterday.
> 
> Hope you get over the bug soon.



Cyber Monday!


----------



## norseofcourse

Sorry you're not feeling well - please go in to see someone if it gets worse or doesn't clear up soon.  You could have a secondary bacterial infection starting, or strep, or something else you don't want to mess with.  Lots of liquids - chicken soup is actually good for you     feel better soon!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I was thinking bout ya @Latestarter and ya may want to shut that Window....if ya still have it opened...and when ya was under the sink ya didn't see any Mold did ya?....if it affects ya it could continue to irritate your situation there....


----------



## farmerjan

Well I'm going to be a "wet blanket" but I think that it is past time to get yourself to a Dr. for this " COLD, BUG, FLU" that you can't seem to shake.  You've also gone and changed your environment, and water, and routine, and didn't you get wet here lately on day and get a chill????  You could wind up with something worse if you don't get it stopped soon.  I am one that seldom goes to a dr., but sore throats are the one thing that I am not going to deal with, and a real bad chest cold type thing can go into pneumonia too easy especially as we " get older ". Don't keep messing with it.


----------



## Baymule

I am so sorry that you are sick and will miss Thanksgiving dinner. I've been cooking all day! Whew! But that's ok, DH will be happy to see you when you get better because I'll make his favorites again for our lunch! LOL You really need to see a Dr for this crud you have, It's no fun being sick and feeling bad. Poor Mel, shoving him outside to go potty when it is clear that he would rather hang out inside with you!


----------



## Latestarter

If this crap isn't on it's way seriously out by the close of the weekend I'll take a trip over to the VA hospital ER and get checked out. Truthfully... I would head to the ER before I was at death's door... Really, I would... Other than then, I detest going to hospitals or doctors. Thanks all!


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## babsbag

Sorry you are missing out on good food and good company   Being sick stinks big time so hope you get better soon. And enjoy the football tomorrow.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

So sorry you're under the weather.  Agree with everyone that it's time for intervention.  In the meanwhile, if you can get some fresh ginger it makes a great tea...mix it with a little honey and it sure seems to help cut through the chest gunk.  Hope you feel better soon!


----------



## TAH

Garlic and honey mixed on a spoon works great.


----------



## Baymule

Sorry you missed all the food and fun today. There was so much food! We took the kids for a hay ride and they had a great time. Hope you are well soon!


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## Mike CHS

Ours was kind of boring too so hope you do get rid of this bug.  We just ground some sirloin and had burgers and baked potato.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I can out-bore ya'll - I made a pot of beans and a pan of cornbread, lol.  We've already had 4 t'givings and seen all the fam, so I thoroughly enjoyed a day at home and a simple meal.


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## Mike CHS

We framed in a carport for a creep feeder setup so we were not completely taking it easy.


----------



## CntryBoy777

@frustratedearthmother I can beat that...we had Bacon and Egg sandwichs.......we had the beans and bread yesterday, so there are Leftovers...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yep, you win!    (But, the hambone I put in the beans was leftover if that counts, lol!)  

Ya know - the thing that matters most is that we had food on our table.  What a blessing!


----------



## Latestarter

I used to eat off the table but I graduated to using plates and sometimes even silverware!


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## CntryBoy777

Was it after 'Boot Camp' that ya 'Graduated'?....when ya started going to the Mess Hall?....had to have a Fork for that SOS?


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## TAH

Creamy Greenbean pie, turkey, gravy, (dad make a good good gravy), mashed potatoes with garlic, butter, cheese, pepper , and salt. It was delicious. 

What made it 20 times better is I got to meet my uncle for the first time .


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## greybeard

I'm making a dent in the leftover apple, pecan, and strawberry/rhubarb pies this morning. A thankless job but someone gotta do it every year and for whatever reason, it falls to me every year...


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Southern by choice

I am with @farmerjan  but I won't be as nice! 

Get your patooty (family friendly forum but you know what I am really sayin'  ) to a doc! Since you have traveled all over and were in the Navy you know there are different strains and different kinds of viruses in different regions. TB is on the rise in the states as well. Pneumonia has been very stubborn and not responding to treatment and putting people in ICU. 

For future reference you will need to take care of these matters asap once you get your livestock... they wait for no one, no sickness, nothing. 

Ok you can slap me now! 

But seriously, as much as we all hate going to the doc and sympathize with you - get going! 



Latestarter said:


> Mel spent all day yesterday and last night while it was raining inside. I did make him go out to go to the bathroom a couple times between downpours. I think he has some goat in him... he does NOT like getting wet!



 His brothers all romp and play in the rain. They love it! So I am thinking you may have spoiled Mel!  I mean really- he is like hmmmm... rain, comfy house... yeah I'll take the comfy house with the gourmet chef!
Not sure if Mel is like this but his daddy "D" when I was really sick and came home from the hospital the family would bring him in.. he would stay by my side. He knew I was very ill and that boy sure could lift my spirits.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I'm making a dent in the leftover apple, pecan, and strawberry/rhubarb pies this morning. A thankless job but someone gotta do it every year and for whatever reason, it falls to me every year...



We all know you are the generous "giving of yourself" kind of guy @greybeard 



TAH said:


> Creamy Greenbean pie, turkey, gravy, (dad make a good good gravy), mashed potatoes with garlic, butter, cheese, pepper , and salt. It was delicious.
> 
> What made it 20 times better is I got to meet my uncle for the first time .


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> I used to eat off the table but I graduated to using plates and sometimes even silverware!


I don't like washing dishes....


----------



## Bruce

One word, um, picture


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## frustratedearthmother

There is one of those in my kitchen.... but...   

The rule around here is I cook - DH cleans the kitchen, lol!  I LOVE IT!   (it was his idea and who am I to argue) And if I ever got mad at him, and that's NEVER happened, I'd cook real messy!


----------



## Latestarter

frustratedearthmother said:


> And if I ever got mad at him, and that's NEVER happened,


----------



## Southern by choice

Feeling any better?


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## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> There is one of those in my kitchen.... but...
> 
> The rule around here is I cook - DH cleans the kitchen, lol!  I LOVE IT!   (it was his idea and who am I to argue) And if I ever got mad at him, and that's NEVER happened, I'd cook real messy!


I do most of the cooking here, and clean the kitchen up as I go. Can't stand to get done and have a sink full of dirty dishes, bowls, pots and pans. In 21 years, my wife has never had to do my laundry either. 
greybeard profile=
Gender:
Male
Location:
East Texas
Occupation:
trophy husband


----------



## babsbag

My DH is from TX too but somehow he missed the "trophy" part. 

He cooks, he is great at it, and great at making messes.  I clean and I am great at it, and I hate it, but I hate messes more. Eating does three things...it costs money, it makes me fat, and it makes a mess. I can do without all three. 

He occasionally does the laundry...HIS laundry. Could he throw in my jeans while he is at it? NO.


----------



## farmerjan

greybeard said:


> I do most of the cooking here, and clean the kitchen up as I go. Can't stand to get done and have a sink full of dirty dishes, bowls, pots and pans. In 21 years, my wife has never had to do my laundry either.
> greybeard profile=
> Gender:
> Male
> Location:
> East Texas
> Occupation:
> trophy husband


Got a brother or a cousin with most of those qualities?????  I'll gladly share the chores and I don't mind doing laundry at all.....


----------



## Latestarter

Harumph... I do all the cooking, cleaning, clothes washing, drying, folding and everything else that needs done around here.  I don't always get it done exactly when it "should" be done,   but it all happens in it's own good time    Being just me, the dishes and laundry tend to become a weekly thing. I don't do "regular" meals, but eat when I'm hungry, and it isn't always the right meal for the right time. I have no issues grilling up a nice thick rib eye steak for breakfast... around noon.  and I normally eat dinner late... like after 9pm, and it might be bacon and eggs or french toast or oatmeal.  Maybe I need a parent to set strict guidelines for me...


----------



## Southern by choice




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## Mini Horses

WOW -- Latestarter, sounds like MY house!!!!   

It's all good!!    

My late husband didn't clean or cook or do dishes -- but he was so great otherwise!!   To make up for what he thought was a "slack" in those areas, we always had a dishwasher in the kitchen and he hired a maid to come in each week and help.    at both houses.   (yeah, I was spoiled!)


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## CntryBoy777

Naw....Latestarter....ya don't need a parent....ya just need some Animals........they will 'Change the Routine' for ya....I used to have that same Schedule....Before the animals got here...but, now it is 'Up and At Them' by 8 each mornin...so Enjoy it while ya Can cause it won't be too much Longer it will be what ya 'Used to Do'.......Daylight and Animals will Demand it!!


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> Got a brother or a cousin with most of those qualities?????  I'll gladly share the chores and I don't mind doing laundry at all.....


I have an identical (in every way) twin brother. However, he is 'taken'. 

(Babsbag: Tho I have in the past..early in our relationship..., I am no longer 'allowed' to either wash, dry, or........ independently pick out and purchase my wife's apparel, tho she has absolutely no inhibitions about me paying for it or ironing it once it comes out of the dryer. funny how that is. But, she has always supported me 100% in all my endeavors and I love her madly--the love of a thousand lifetimes. She saved me from myself--I was, as Don Williams once sang..a rake and rambling man)


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## frustratedearthmother

greybeard said:


> But, she has always supported me 100% in all my endeavors and I love her madly--the love of a thousand lifetimes.



That is awesome!


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## Mike CHS

I'm always glad to see that I'm not the only man on here that has a perfect woman and best friend.


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## CntryBoy777

Well I can't say mine is a 'Perfect Woman'....but, then again I am Not the 'Perfect Man'....we are each other's Best Friend and we make a pretty good Team at accomplishing any Task that confronts us....we both Cook, Clean, Dishes, and tend to the Animals....wouldn't have it any Other way...for Sure!!


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## Baymule

My husband loves me despite all my quirks. He never knows what I'll do next or what he'll have to do to keep up with me. My son-in-law told my husband he didn't have a choice, he married a tornado.  We have a great life together and wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Bruce

And your daughter is just like you right? SIL is in for it


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## farmerjan

greybeard said:


> I have an identical (in every way) twin brother. However, he is 'taken'.
> 
> (Babsbag: Tho I have in the past..early in our relationship..., I am no longer 'allowed' to either wash, dry, or........ independently pick out and purchase my wife's apparel, tho she has absolutely no inhibitions about me paying for it or ironing it once it comes out of the dryer. funny how that is. But, she has always supported me 100% in all my endeavors and I love her madly--the love of a thousand lifetimes. She saved me from myself--I was, as Don Williams once sang..a rake and rambling man)



How is your twin doing by the way??? Hope that things are going better.


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> And your daughter is just like you right? SIL is in for it



Yes and no. I am crazy, half wild and liable to do almost anything. Loud, boisterous and life of the party. DD is calm, quiet, and measured-like my mother. I love anything animals or dirt, DD not so much. Both of us inherited the strength of our grandmothers, the determination and "I can do anything". And yes, DSIL is in for it-and he knows and loves it!


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## Bruce

Sounds like "NOT so much" other than the knowledge and drive to do most anything you decide you want to do!


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> How is your twin doing by the way??? Hope that things are going better.


Still on a rough road--starts back with chemo Tuesday. He was here yesterday and today and as always, you'd not know he was sick by appearances--'the other silent killer".  He drove back to Arkansas earlier tonight.


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## Latestarter

Best wishes for his recovery.


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## Latestarter

So the lightning flashes woke me up ~5:30 or so. Very warm (almost 70) outside and humidity is high, like nearing 90%. Had only gone to bed ~3:30 but wide awake now. Figured I'd better look at the radar and see what it looked like was coming. http://radar.weather.gov/ridge/radar.php?rid=SHV&product=NCR&overlay=11101111&loop=yes
If you follow the line that is the northern Louisiana border & go 3 counties west from the Louisiana border into TX, I'm located right center of that county, just below I-30. ~60 miles SW of Texarcana.  So then I went to look for any warnings (the red highlight is mine, not NOAA's):

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR PORTIONS OF SOUTH CENTRAL
ARKANSAS...SOUTHWEST ARKANSAS...NORTH CENTRAL LOUISIANA...
NORTHWEST LOUISIANA...SOUTHEAST OKLAHOMA...EAST TEXAS AND
NORTHEAST TEXAS.

.DAY ONE...TODAY AND TONIGHT...

STRONG TO SEVERE THUNDERSTORMS WILL BE ON THE INCREASE TODAY AS A
POTENT UPPER LEVEL STORM SYSTEM APPROACHES FROM THE WEST. STRONG
LOW LEVEL SHEAR AND SHEAR THROUGHOUT THE ATMOSPHERE SUGGESTS THAT
SUPERCELL THUNDERSTORMS WILL BE POSSIBLE...SOME OF WHICH COULD
PRODUCE TORNADOES...MAINLY ACROSS NORTHERN LOUISIANA AND SOUTHERN
ARKANSAS. ELSEWHERE...DAMAGING THUNDERSTORM WIND GUSTS AND LARGE
HAIL WILL BE POSSIBLE ACROSS NORTHEAST TEXAS INTO SOUTHEAST
OKLAHOMA. LOCALLY HEAVY DOWNPOURS WILL ACCOMPANY THIS CONVECTION
TODAY BEFORE THE ACTIVITY QUICKLY PUSHES EAST OF THE REGION BY
THIS EVENING.

Raining right now, but not torrential or anything. All this stuff is moving to the east and I guess the drought over east of here is pretty severe so I hope you pick up a lot of rain but no serious damage as this pushes over to you.

On another note, I really enjoyed watching football yesterday. The match ups were very competitive and the games I watched were nail biters right down to the end! Seeing KC beat Denver in Denver was awesome! What an ending and in overtime to boot! My team the Pats got the victory over the Jets but I was screaming at the TV watching the first 3/4 of that game. They won't win the Super Bowl playing like that.   The Raiders game was an awesome match up as well. I'm expecting to watch Green Bay get pummeled again this evening.

Last night maybe 8-ish, it was dark, Mel started alerting to something out back beyond the fence. Sure enough, shortly I see this huge armadillo sauntering up. They dig these huge holes looking for bugs and worms to eat. So anyway, I killed it and then went and got it and threw it over the fence so Mel could check it out. He got pretty excited about it but lost interest pretty quickly... I guess these kinds of toys are no fun when they aren't self-powered. After a couple of hours I went and disposed of it at the back of the field. Danged thing was heavy to carry all the way down there!


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## Mike CHS

We had a dead armadillo in the middle of our drive about a month ago.  No idea how it got there or what killed it. Shoved it off the drive figuring to get rid of it later and the darn thing was gone the next time I looked.


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## Latestarter

My internet keeps dropping due to the rain squalls and wind.


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## misfitmorgan

Sorry your not feeling well @Latestarter  hope you get better soon.


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## CntryBoy777

Be careful with the 'Dillers'....they are the one of the animals in the US that can carry Leprosy....we have our Share here and they can really tear up some Ground....


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## babsbag

I think it is the 9 Banded Armadillo only that can carry leprosy. 

Any reason to kill them other than the holes? Sounds like a TX version of my ground squirrels.


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## CntryBoy777

Well I respect your 'Thinking' @babsbag but not at the chance of getting leprosy......and I won't be counting the Bands either....I stay away from all of them......and as far as Chipmunks go...my cats just Love em...


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## babsbag

Oh, come on, tell the little guy to hold still while you count the bands.   They are like snow...nice in someone else's yard; and cute too. 

Our ground squirrels aren't exactly chipmunks. The are MUCH bigger and dig tunnels and caverns everywhere. They live in colonies like prairie dogs and you can be walking through a field and all of a sudden the ground gives way and you just found a tunnel. My dogs kill them but they are too big for the cats.  We shoot and poison as they do severe damage to structures and orchards. Also, the rattlesnakes will get in the entrance to the holes and then the poor dogs get bit when trying to get to the squirrels. Useless creatures all the way around.


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## CntryBoy777

My 'Bad' on the misunderstanding...most around here refer to chipmunks as ground squirrels........I'd have to 'Draw the Line' on them too.......the chipmunks, moles, and voles do our ground that way too...tho probably not to the degree of those things....


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## Latestarter

If they're useless and destructive I'm surprised the govt out there hasn't listed them as endangered and put protection on them.  On the front range in CO (starting in the peoples republic of boulder) they did that with black tailed prairie dogs. Results were farmers lost their land because the pests destroyed crops and land. One thing I never understood though... the protection never stopped govt agencies from mass destroying the colonies if they interfered with something the govt wanted to do... Strange huh? You know, another thing I never understood was how all that "open space" land came to be govt owned, which used to be farmers/ranchers properties...  or huge corporate developers for massive subdivisions & malls... Kinda makes one wonder, doesn't it?


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## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> If they're useless and destructive I'm surprised the govt out there hasn't listed them as endangered and put protection on them.



  So true


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## animalmom

Sp you ARE on a tear today aren't you @Latestarter!  Not that you've said anything I wouldn't agree with, mind you.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> If they're useless and destructive I'm surprised the govt out there hasn't listed them as endangered and put protection on them.  On the front range in CO (starting in the peoples republic of boulder) they did that with black tailed prairie dogs. Results were farmers lost their land because the pests destroyed crops and land. One thing I never understood though... the protection never stopped govt agencies from mass destroying the colonies if they interfered with something the govt wanted to do... Strange huh? You know, another thing I never understood was how all that "open space" land came to be govt owned, which used to be farmers/ranchers properties...  or huge corporate developers for massive subdivisions & malls... Kinda makes one wonder, doesn't it?



Kirtland Warbler......or should i say kirtland warbler recovery plan that was put into place 40+yrs ago. The "plan" now has 220,000 acres of land devoted to this bird. There are approx 5,000 birds total and they only use the michigan breeding groups in spring/summer and fall/winter is in the bahamas. 5,000 birds doesnt seem like a lot but there have been 5,000 since 2007 while more ground has been added to the plan's reserves. The entire reason they supposedly were almost extinct started in the Ice Age because the great lakes trapped them in michigan and these birds only nest in trees a certain age and height and location...etc....

It's all a load of bull because they have found the birds successfully nesting in places like Walmart signs. I also find it hilarious that they say the birds were "trapped" by the great lakes....the birds that fly to the bahamas and back yearly. And also they capture and kill approx 4,000 cowbirds a year to keep them from laying eggs in the kirtland nests. Maybe there is something wrong with my thinking but im thinking if you have to catch and kill 4,000 other birds a year to keep another bird alive....mother nature didnt intend for it to be around any longer. In 40+ years they have only gone from approx 500 birds to 5,000...thats pretty poor by most endangered species programs. I am however not a fan of cowbirds...but thats another story.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Oh, come on, tell the little guy to hold still while you count the bands.   They are like snow...nice in someone else's yard; and cute too.
> 
> Our ground squirrels aren't exactly chipmunks. The are MUCH bigger and dig tunnels and caverns everywhere. They live in colonies like prairie dogs and you can be walking through a field and all of a sudden the ground gives way and you just found a tunnel. My dogs kill them but they are too big for the cats.  We shoot and poison as they do severe damage to structures and orchards. Also, the rattlesnakes will get in the entrance to the holes and then the poor dogs get bit when trying to get to the squirrels. Useless creatures all the way around.



You want holes? "Get" some woodchucks. Their tunnels are about 9 or 10 inches wide. They love layer pellets.


----------



## NH homesteader

Everyone around me has woodchucks....  I have never had one here (I know,  I'm totally going to end up with 50 of them now). They're so cute! On someone else's land...


----------



## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> You want holes? "Get" some woodchucks. Their tunnels are about 9 or 10 inches wide. They love layer pellets.


Yeah, we have the equivalent of  "woodchucks"  called "ground hogs" here in Va. They can get like prairie dog towns in fields - okay maybe not for miles - but in 2 different years, BROKE the front spindle on 2 different tractors dropping the front end into an  unseen new set of holes in 2 different hay fields.  To the tune of  $1,000  a spindle not counting time and effort to replace, downtime when hay needs to be made....GRRRR
I hate them about the worst of anything. They undermine the foundations on buildings, can run like all get out, and can devastate the garden in a hurry.  Way too big for the cats and I don't have a dog right now...apples and peanut butter in the live trap and a date with a .22.  They are mean too, will turn on you if cornered.  They don't attack the chickens at least...


----------



## farmerjan

NH homesteader said:


> Everyone around me has woodchucks....  I have never had one here (I know,  I'm totally going to end up with 50 of them now). They're so cute! On someone else's land...


Thank your dogs; and no there is NO WAY they are cute....


----------



## Bruce

The baby chucks are cute ... until you remember that they will grow up to be not so cute. Yep they love to move stones in a fieldstone foundation. Block off one entrance and they just shove another stone out. NOT GOOD!

They are ground squirrels, BIG squirrels. Supposedly they can even climb trees though I've only seen them running their fat selves to their holes.


----------



## NH homesteader

They  are cute! Big fat things. Lol.  I'm not saying I forbid shooting them or that I want them around.  I just think they're kind of cute in a kind of homely way!


----------



## Mike CHS

Jan - I think the ground hogs we have are related to yours they dig holes so big a front tire on my tractor can go all the way around.  On a 10 degree incline, that can be a scary thing.
I have an agreement with my neighbors son that he gets $20 for every one he shoots.


----------



## farmerjan

Mike CHS said:


> Jan - I think the ground hogs we have are related to yours they dig holes so big a front tire on my tractor can go all the way around.  On a 10 degree incline, that can be a scary thing.
> I have an agreement with my neighbors son that he gets $20 for every one he shoots.


I have a friend that likes to hunt, is a CRACK shot and I beg him to come and get after the ground hogs.  3 years ago, I got 3 in the yard, female and 2 half grown ones.  I was between them and their "normal" escape route...got the female first and then the two younger ones. Best shooting I ever did, would probably never be able to do it again, but I was so mad, they had been mowing off my green beans when they were only  6-8 inches tall and I just happened to be home one afternoon at a time that I usually wasn't...and got very lucky.  Those d****things are smart too, they know when there is no one around.  I've come home at "not usual" times and seen them flying across the lawn as I barely start up the driveway.
Oh and they like watermelon in the live traps too...


----------



## Bruce

Yeah the ones here seem to be able to run at 100 MPH. As soon as they see someone, GONE! The only one I don't mind is the one that lives in the huge pile of rocks around the tree at the edge of the property (the part I had to jog around with my new fence). It never seems to cause any trouble. The ones that live close to the barn?? tunnels everywhere through the barn.

Several moved to the far edge of the property last summer. Quite steep back there, down hill past the property line is the next town. They run down hill. No houses there, the next thing west is the interstate. Who knows if they made a new home or found themselves "Naked and Afraid" and dead but I know they didn't come back.


----------



## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> Yeah the ones here seem to be able to run at 100 MPH. As soon as they see someone, GONE! The only one I don't mind is the one that lives in the huge pile of rocks around the tree at the edge of the property (the part I had to jog around with my new fence). It never seems to cause any trouble. The ones that live close to the barn?? tunnels everywhere through the barn.
> 
> Several moved to the far edge of the property last summer. Quite steep back there, down hill past the property line is the next town. They run down hill. No houses there, the next thing west is the interstate. Who knows if they made a new home or found themselves "Naked and Afraid" and dead but I know they didn't come back.


 
Yea!!!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

To bad they dont have traps for them like they do/did for moles.


----------



## Baymule

Hmmm........ northeast Texas...... NO prairie dogs, NO ground hogs, NO woodchucks, NO chipmunks, NO ground squirrels......but we DO have fire ants!!  

I once "skinned" a couple of armadillos and BBQ'ed them. Tasty, very tasty. Getting them out of the shell took both hands and both feet. Cut along the shell at the belly/sides, stand on the shell flaps, pull on the tail with one hand and cut with the other. I'll try most anything once.


----------



## Mike CHS

Ground hogs supposedly pretty tasty but I haven't had it.  We have live traps that we hope to use soon to find out.


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry @Baymule there just ain't Nothin about a Diller that entices me into Thinking it might be Tasty....sure Glad there are many more things still here on Earth that we can Choose from...when Everything else is long Gone...I might give it a Try...or become Veagan........but Only then!!


----------



## Baymule

Haha, yeah....a country girl will survive!!!


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Hmmm........ northeast Texas...... NO prairie dogs, NO ground hogs, NO woodchucks, NO chipmunks, NO ground squirrels......but we DO have fire ants!!
> 
> ......


And a lot of poisonous snake species!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Pretty sure i would not go thru all that work to try an armadillo lol....DH says he is game though.


----------



## NH homesteader

I would try it, we'll try most anything. I've never seen an armadillo in person.  How big are they?


----------



## CntryBoy777

They are about the size of a medium sized coon with Armour!!....


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## Latestarter

The one I shot was about 15-20 pounds. It was good sized. They make bigger holes at that size. Sorry, no interest in trying it.


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## misfitmorgan

@Latestarter  you could go pick it up and mail it to @NH homesteader


----------



## NH homesteader




----------



## greybeard

Eat an armadillo? I don't think so.

armadillos and leprosy

http://naturalsociety.com/armadillos-spreading-leprosy-in-florida/
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/health/florida-leprosy-cases-armadillos-irpt/


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## misfitmorgan

greybeard said:


> Eat an armadillo? I don't think so.
> 
> armadillos and leprosy
> 
> http://naturalsociety.com/armadillos-spreading-leprosy-in-florida/
> http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/health/florida-leprosy-cases-armadillos-irpt/



 Flordia has armadillos?


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## CntryBoy777

Yep....they have spread far and wide in the south...here in Ms they are as numerous as coons and possums...when we were truck driving saw them from coast to coast...mainly across the south...but that was over 10 yrs ago...so, they have probably spread further by now.


----------



## misfitmorgan

The things you learn. I never saw them when i lived down south, that was in Alabama and about 12yrs ago.


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## Latestarter

Had to go out and buy some stuff today and wandered through the music CD section at wally world. Decided to pick up some new "oldies" music to add to my collection and happened upon a Weird AL Yankovic double CD set. Ripping it to the computer now. He cracks me up! 

On a good note. I'm starting to have heavy sneezing episodes which has always been an indication that my system is finally kicking whatever bug it's been fighting. So I expect I'll be done with this crap within the next day or so. About time!  About time to head out to use the spa. Expecting temps down to just above freezing here tonight.

Yeah, dillos have spread further north than they've ever been seen before. Climate change and all that good stuff. They are pretty destructive to lawns. They root around like hogs and dig these holes that are ideal for breaking an ankle in.


----------



## CntryBoy777

....and a really good 'Start' for some other Critter that Digs...Fox, Possum, etc........sure glad to hear ya are feeling Better!!....those Goats are gonna need some 'Action'... and we are Anxious for the Pics...


----------



## Latestarter

The other night a few days ago, while standing in the kitchen in slippers, I shuffled my feet and discovered the ridges where the hardwood laminate comes together was starting to "bridge"/pucker... Looked down at it without much attention and went about what I was doing. Yesterday, I noticed some water staining along a joint and since the dog had been out there drooling (he makes a serious puddle when he gets going) and I had been working in the sink, I just got the wet jet out and cleaned it up. This afternoon, while in the kitchen I noticed water on the floor... Hmmmmm. 

As I stepped on one board in front of the sink, bubbles and water came up through the seam...  Looked under the kitchen sink, no leaks. There was some water staining on the lower portion of the fiber board wall on the dishwasher side, but I didn't pay much attention. So I've pulled the bottom kick board off the dishwasher and sure enough, there's a leak dripping under there from the pressure unit above where the water line comes in. It's NOT the water line or the coupling... it's something above that.  The unit is still under warranty but of course it's after hours on Friday so can't do anything about it till Monday. This will be the 2nd time I've had to call out for repairs on this unit. It was bought and installed in March and never used until I moved in. I've maybe used it a 1/2 dozen times.  When the plumber installed it he jacked the legs all the way up (down?) and since they didn't carry the wood flooring under the dishwasher, it's too tight a fit to pull out without major effort.   While down on my hands and knees I looked and it appears they didn't carry the hard wood laminate under the stove either...

Depending on how much damage was done to the laminate and sub floor from the water, I may just pull it out and replace it with tile (and carry it under the dishwasher and stove).


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Grrrrrrrrrr!  Hate half-a$$ed work.  Hope you get it resolved quickly and easily!  (how likely is that?)


----------



## NH homesteader

Ugh


----------



## Bruce

Always another thing! Sorry to hear it @Latestarter


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure hope that's all ya Find....and isn't one of those 'Chase' it down and Find much more than ya Wished or Planned on...I caught a Draft while cooking one day and began to 'Track it Down'....even tho it is a trailer...this was much more than Normal....come to find out...the paneling has completely rotted out...behind the stove....only the Vinyl is left...there isn't any telling just how Long the vent on the venta hood has been Leaking....but even the Studs are no longer there...took out the non working vent a hood and Sealed the hole...now I have to remove cabinets just to Replace the Wall.....so, just Hope it ain't like that for ya....


----------



## Bruce

@CntryBoy777 

Darn good thing you live in the south where you can work on that sort of fiasco this time of year. I don't even want to think about opening up an outside wall in December.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Have to wait til the Wasps stop Flying.....


----------



## Latestarter

Finally got more than an hour's sleep last night. Cold finally broke/breaking, no sore throat, no swollen glands, post nasal drip all but gone, cough finally dying down. Still coughing up the last of it. Was so tired today... Called to get the dish washer repair folks back out here, that will happen some time Wednesday. They said they'll file for the damage caused to the laminate flooring by the leak as well. Then I decided I needed some fresh air so I went out and went to get a hair cut, only to find all the barbershops here are closed on Mondays.   Stopped and had a sausage/egg/cheese muffin meal for breakfast, then I figured while I'm out, it's a Monday, it's gray & overcast and drizzling off & on so what better time to go visit some govt employees? Went to the county offices to start checking into ag exemption and they directed me to the appraisal district so went there and did what I could. Filled out the app, got it stamped received and a copy for me. Now set up for both timber and animal exemption on the property. They said I'd get a notice in the mail in April/May letting me know the outcome/determination/tax rate-bill and I'd have 30 days to fight it if I decided to. Actual taxes will be billed in Oct and due NLT Feb first. They said they didn't see any reason it would be denied.

They also told me what I need to do for the homestead exemption and I have to get a TX drivers license to get that. So I went over to the TX Dept of Safety to do that, only to find out I can't get a TX drivers license until I get my truck registered here (unless I don't own a vehicle... WTF?). So I told them I didn't have a vehicle, and they said "Yes you do!" (WTF?) Of course they also want a certified birth certificate, a passport, proof of sanity signed by a licensed physician, proof of TX residency X 2, a completely filled out 30 page application, 2 govt issued pic IDs, first born son, letter from parent's, and congressional approval. What a friggin PITA! I'll go to a different office next time. Maybe I'll rent a car for the day and show them the rental contract. So I decided since I don't need to file the homestead until April, I'll wait. My present license is good till 5/18, and I've already paid CO registration taxes/fees which are good till later next year and I can't get a refund on them... The truck will also then be a year older and worth even less for tax purposes. 

Who would have guessed a person (me) could eat an entire 2 pound bag of M&Ms in a matter of days? I bought them in case I got a sweet craving and made the mistake of putting them beside me on the computer table...   And I wonder why I keep putting on weight?  

Speaking of gaining weight... I swung into the local Brookshire's and spoke to the meat dept manager/cutter and ordered a 9-10 pound bone in rib roast with the meat filleted off the bones and tied, then the roast tied back to the rib bones for pick up on the 17th. I told him I want the best cut he had available. My son and his family will arrive some time that night and we'll be doing Xmas dinner the 18th or 19th. I expect I'll season it the 17th when I get it home and refrigerate it overnight. Then discuss whether to cook it on the 18th or 19th with them when they get here. All of a sudden I have this craving for stir fried onions and mushrooms  Thinking about mushroom/onion gravy... Maybe I'll go cook some in a bit for my dinner.

They (appraisal office) also told me where to go to get the free help I need for the soil analysis and timber evaluation, pasture recommendations and stocking limits for animals. They also reminded me to apply for the release from sales tax on farm materials document.

So on the way home I stopped at a couple of furniture stores to check out a swivel rocker recliner. Found a good one; Lazy Boy Gibson and they'll be delivering it tomorrow after noon. The one I have now in the living room will stay there but get moved over along the couch wall. I spent most of the afternoon dozing in it. I needed one a bit "beefier" and able to swivel so I can place it over under the window by the wood stove and be able to watch TV yet swivel around to interact with others in the room using the other furniture. Wanted cloth but that would have been a special order and 6-8 weeks... so settled for microfiber. Did not want leather. Then I went to Chicken Express and got a couple of thighs and a biscuit with sweet tea for lunch.

On the way home I went past a farm insurance office as detailed in another thread here, so stopped in to get a quote. Two grand a year!  Guess I'll be staying with what I have now until, the end of at least the first year term. I asked why so expensive... He said because it's a stick framed home outside city limits. I said "you folks are supposed to be doing farm and ranch policies... How many farms and ranches are INSIDE city limits?" He didn't answer me  Wonder how much it would cost to get this place put on a foundation and bricked up...

Seeing all the folks dealing with snow and winter weather, makes me kind of glad that I moved further south. I'm going to have sub freezing weather for a couple of nights later in the week, and it's been gray/rainy/damp here the past few days and will continue for a couple more. picked up an even inch of rain over the past day or two. That was on top of the inch and 3/8ths I got last week. Looking at the forecast it appears the amount of rain expected through Thursday has decreased. Next week after it dries out I have to concentrate on getting that downed tree cut up. Should be good for a cord or two all cut and split. The exercise will be good for me too 

Christmas is 20 days away  Man this year flew past! Hope y'all are ready or at least getting there. Not much time left.


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## NH homesteader

OK your post made me really hungry! And thanks for the reminder the year is almost over and I have a million things to do! 

But, glad to hear your cold is breaking! And that you got a whole lot figured out  it sounds like!


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## CntryBoy777

My my what a Fiasco!!....sure glad that I live in a much Simpler citizen Friendly State...sounds like a Texas sized 'Chinese Fire Drill'.........glad the virus is finally leavin ya!! sure has held on to ya for a while now....sounds like the makings of a Good 'Get Together' with the Family......and a new 'Throne' is always good to 'Break In'...we don't celebrate the Holiday and don't participate in the 'Hoopla'...goes back to my 'Biblical View'...but don't Fault those that do....just another day here....we've had the same weather here too...and goin to get down in the low 20's Thurs nite and Fri....with a chance of Flurries but no accumulation...sure Glad of that!!...those M&Ms are addictive so be Careful....


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## AClark

I think whatever you have is going around. We've had the same junk floating around our house. My husband had it while he was out of state, for over a week. He came home better but then I got it last week and am just recovering, and now my oldest boy has it. 

As for your dishwasher laments, I sympathize. I've been through 3 in this house in a matter of 6 months. I don't have tile under my stove or dishwasher either (cheap @sses) but luckily I have cement foundation without a crawl space, so it just leaked out on my kitchen floor when it went. The only thing I can say is I will never ever buy a whirlpool product again after a washing machine that ws a real lemon and these dishwashers.

Surprised that they gave you a bad time at DMV. I have a TX ID card, and other than having to bring in another form of ID and utility bills, I didn't have a problem. I retained my AZ drivers license though. 
The taxes on your truck won't change your registration, ours is flat-fee, and a giant PITA with a yearly inspection. I registered mine in AZ after the first year and it was cheaper since it's older, our other truck and trailer are registered in TX. My flatbed trailer cost $66 to register here for 1 year, so I won't be registering it in TX again - but had some issues. I was going to register it in AZ for a permanent plate, but found out that while it is totally legal to buy and own a trailer with just a bill of sale in TX and no title, AZ won't register it without a title at all. Why no title? Because it was registered as a home-made trailer (the tongue was bent and the previous owner cut it off and welded a new one without a VIN #) and in TX you don't have to have a title on it - but to get a title you have to jump through hoops with an inspection it won't pass, get them to issue a VIN, etc. I'm just going to lament about DMV with you and call it a day lol.


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## OneFineAcre

CntryBoy777 said:


> They are about the size of a medium sized coon with Armour!!....



I thought they were like a possum with armour.


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## CntryBoy777

@OneFineAcre we are closer to Texas so by the time they get over there they must have lost some weight and size...


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## Bruce

@AClark - You will have to look at more than the nameplate on appliances. Lots of brands are made by Whirlpool. http://www.appliance411.com/purchase/make.shtml


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## Latestarter

I had no idea but my Frigidaire appliances are actually manufactured by Electrolux... And I thought all they made was expensive worthless vacuums


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## farmerjan

Gotta take issue on the "expensive worthless vaccuums" by Electrolux....Had a canister one that lasted for over 25 years and replaced it with another used one that I have had for over 10 years now.  Spent less than 200 on each, both used.  My mom had hers for 38 years. Can't say anything about the uprights, we have always have the canister types and I love  it.


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## Latestarter

OK, my thread, so my platform to spew! 

I used to sell vacuums part time years ago. Yep, I was one of them pesty door-to-door salesmen.   I sold (& owned) a unit called a "Rainbow" made by Rexair LLC. It used about 3/4 gallon of water in a refillable base on wheels, so basically a canister vac that used water as a filter vice a bag. As part of the training, we learned all the down sides to bag type vacs and how to "kill" virtually any type vac a potential customer owned. These (Rainbows) weren't cheap units either (same "class" price wise as the top of the line electrolux and kirby). Kirby's selling points were you could (with all their various attachments) turn your vacuum into a lathe, circular saw, drill, etc. (<-- now WHY would you want or need to do any of THAT?). And, I have to tell you, they were (still are) heavy as a sherman tank! and trust me, that weight does NOT mean they are "cleaning"... No idea what Electrolux used for selling points for their "bullet" canister vacs (the only type I ever competed against).

To this day, I will not own, buy or recommend a vacuum that uses any kind of bag system. I now own a bag-less "cyclone technology" vac. Not the overpriced ones from Dyson, but a knock off tech wise. No bags to plug (pores), no dirty water to dump & water container to clean, and a HEPA filter as the final stage before exhaust where I can verify that what goes in does NOT come back out. The amount of sand and fine grain (almost powder) dust/grit/dirt that I dump out of the collection cylinder is also proof that I'm not loosing air flow (plugged bag pores) and am in fact picking the dirt up and not pushing it back deeper into the carpet and pad.

Just cause the motor is running/making noise/using electricity, doesn't necessarily mean it's doing what you think it's doing...  Bump the collection canister while it's running and pay attention to the smell from the exhaust... Why do you always dust AFTER you vacuum? Oh my, the things I could share. One primary reason I bought this place was wood floors throughout (except carpet in the bedrooms for comfort with bare feet I guess). Nothing for the dirt/dust/nastiness to hide/build up in.

And in case you were wondering, I made a pretty good part time paycheck doing it. Several months I made more doing that than the govt paid me for being active duty Navy. Really helped raising 3 kids. I still believe that water is the best filtration system for collecting dirt/dust. It does not however work for any form of ash, or lighter than air type stuff that tends to "bounce off" the surface of the water when it hits it. (pepper, cinnamon, that sort of thing). For that you had to add some oil to form an oily surface layer to trap that stuff, which made cleaning the bowl a PITA. Up/down sides to everything...


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## CntryBoy777

Actually I have seen a couple of those at Other people's house....never heard much about em....though, I will admit I was one that read the Want Ads looking for a job...and sat thru 1 'Orentation' meeting for Kirbys....and never went Back.........just wasn't anything for me....I went to Bailing cotton lint at a Plant....


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## CntryBoy777

Meant to ask ya yesterday if ya got to crankin that chainsaw up and getting after that tree ya was talking about?


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## Baymule

I am glad that you are feeling better! Being sick is no fun. On the rare occasions that I am down with a bug, all I can think about is all the things I want to do outside! It sounds like you are getting a lot of nit-picking things done, aren't tax and DPS offices fun? NOT!

That stinks about your laminate floor. I put down laminate in our old house and after some years, it became clear to me that was a boo-boo on my part. It was starting to de-laminate, which is a fancy term for PEEL off the top layer, leaving the fiberboard underneath. I am too abusive to floors. I like your tile idea.....

Winter had a conference meeting and decided to let us southerners know that he is still around. So we get a night of 30* and a night of 20* then it will go back up lest we get concerned and move to the Bahamas.


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## Latestarter

No chainsaw antics yet... too wet. The tree has a lot of limb(s) up off the ground that I hope will still be pretty dry inside. Originally they were saying sunny tomorrow and sub freezing tomorrow night. I had hoped I might be able to get out there and get some sticks cut tomorrow under the sun. Now it looks like they're saying cloudy and might rain more tomorrow.  The heat pump works, but it's not ideal for real cold weather and I don't need the electric bill really.

Waited all day yesterday for my new swivel, rocker, recliner to get delivered... Figures it ended up being their final delivery and got here ~7pm. Today I waited for the dishwasher repair person to show up. They actually got here early... like 10:30, so I was able to go over to the dairy and pick up some milk and yogurt. Turns out it's a cracked water valve above where the water line connects. 7-10 days for the part  Was the same guy that was here last and replaced the control board. I told him I want him to do this repair and NOT set it up break down again 2 weeks later... He said most of the appliances he ends up repairing are Frigidaire... This is the first Frigidaire I've ever had issues with... Had 3 in my last place and have 5 here. (old stove, new refer/dishwasher/washer/dryer)


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## AClark

Oh I know, however, I have found that you can avoid all their other brands like Maytag and Kenmore if you buy Samsung or LG products exclusively. It used to be that Whirlpool made a great product, I had a Kenmore washing machine from the early 80's that worked great and i just got rido f it a few years ago. Same for GE. However, I've had 2 new GE ovens burn out on me, and 3 whirlpool dishwashers, also a whirlpool washing machine - I'd trust a 20-30 year old whirlpool or GE over any of their new stuff. I think Whirlpool left a nasty reputation with me with their lack of giving a rats butt that a washer that was less than a year old had been through 3 drums - their offer? "We'll replace it for you but we don't make that model anymore and you have to pay the additional $150 for the comparative model" - I told them to stick it, sold the POS on craigslist for $100 after it's last warranty repair, and never looked back. 

Late, I use a Kirby I bought for $180 on Ebay, older Diamond something model, I've had it for 6 or 7 years now. It's been the best vacuum I've ever owned as far as not being killed by kids/pets. I'm with you on all the weird attachments though. I mainly use the hard floor attachment since I don't have any carpet in this house, and a couple of the brushes for furniture and dusting. Nice part is I have long enough extensions that I can reach ceiling fans to dust them without finding something to stand on - but that might just be a "short person" problem. I don't like their version of a carpet shampooer at all, and the tile and grout cleaner could be better.
As you said, it is a monster of a machine (and all metal) and weighs a ton. My poor mom tried to use it while I was on vacation and said it was the hardest to push vacuum she'd ever seen and she gave up - then I showed her that it has a transmission you have to put in drive and it is self driven. Pretty funny.


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## Latestarter

I have had LG fails, so try to avoid them. I'm really beginning to thing that appliances and virtually all tech items have become like our political system... they speak out of both sides of their mouths, none of them actually stand for anything but what their owners/controllers puppet them to stand for, and ALL of them are owned controlled by the same "elite" group. This year this appliance brand is best, and next year it's some other brand. And the year after it's the first brand again, but now they have been bought out and are owned by the 2nd brand...


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## CntryBoy777

Our problem is that we are Old enough to Remember when things were Really made....now it is 'Snap Together' ...so called 'Smart'....it is the same with vehicles today.....ya can't just get one with AC, radio, and PS anymore...too many 'Bells and Whistles' they come at a Premium price...my first New vehicle cost me $3200 in '77....first house was $23,500...even drove a 'Bug' just to get around in...now ya can't touch much of anything for less than $20,000....and we are to believe it is Better....


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## Latestarter

Well, I got to feeling all guilty and stuff so I grabbed the chainsaw and went out and carved up 5 or 6 of the limbs down to trunk. Got to thinking if I burned up all my dry stuff I'd have nothing to get the stove going with to burn the wetter stuff.  

That basically got me a row of stove wood across the bed of the truck almost to tailgate level. It's pretty wet and mossy/lichen'y' on the outside but dried out and hard as concrete inside. Tried to split one and even after sharpening the axe, there's a no go on that. I thought it was a red oak, but looking at the wood inside (very deep red and very close grain), I may be wrong. But it is certainly a hardwood of some type. Thinking of the hue, it almost looks like polished it would be a light mahogany.  I have about 1/2 again that amount in nice dry aspen that I brought from CO, so I'm guessing I can get the fire started with that and then this stuff will dry out and burn as it goes.


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## CntryBoy777

Well I didn't mean to 'Throw a Craving' on ya.......but it is good that ya have enough to keep ya warm the next few nites........the way you are describing it...it sounds like it might be black walnut....it smells really good burning...tho am not familiar with the possibilities there in Texas.


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## Bruce

Hardwood floors - YES! A goodly amount of that stuff that you vacuum out from under the furniture because you don't have carpet would STILL me stuck in the carpet after you vacuumed. Try this, even with @Latestarter's Rainbow. Vacuum a wool area rug as best you can. Then take it outside and beat it. 

A Rainbow guy came to my apartment (what, 30+ years ago?) and tried to sell me the amazingly expensive vacuum. I think the way they try to sell it it by showing you what is in the water after they use it. I would be willing to bet that you could use a different vacuum after they are done there would stuff in the bag/canister and would pretty much guarantee that if you could take it outside and beat it, junk would be flying.


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## OneFineAcre

2 Words
"Gas Logs"


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Well, I got to feeling all guilty and stuff so I grabbed the chainsaw and went out and carved up 5 or 6 of the limbs down to trunk.


Nice going @CntryBoy777 you got him off his butt! 

Black walnut is for woodwork, not burning!!!!


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## CntryBoy777

We burn it here....have talked to many and they won't even cut it and take it for Free...a guy that owns a sawmill says he has some buried, but can't sell it...I agree that it is nice to make things with...but, I am not that person...so we just burn it...


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## Baymule

A wood burning heater is on my wish list. Maybe one of these days I'll build the platform for one to stand on and put tile or rock up the wall. The man at the wood stove store told me how to do it, it didn't sound hard. But I still have too many outside projects to do!


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## Bruce

@CntryBoy777  - send the good pieces to Me!

Not hard at all @Baymule. In fact you can buy slate embedded bases about 1" thick and in a pinch (meaning a pinched penny) use ceramic insulators to hold a sheet of metal off the wall creating the code required "heatshield". Not as pretty as tile, brick or rock of course. I did that in my first house, splurged and had a sheet of copper made. That just means they folded over the edges so they weren't sharp. Don't recall what it cost but given I had just bought the place and was eating egg salad sandwiches (cheap!!) a lot for a while, it obviously was not prohibitive.


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## Latestarter

So I decided to give this here stove a try. Fired up just about perfect, damp wood and all. Been burning now about 4 hours and the main part of the house is at ~76F... the back bedroom where the computer is is around 70F. I have the heat setting at medium, all the ceiling fans going, and a large pot of water sitting on the top grate which is just below boiling. I'm sitting here in just a pair of shorts, bare foot, having just recently come in from the spa. I am pretty sure this stove is going to be all I'll need this winter.   Next few nice days I'll go get the rest of that downed tree cut up.


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## babsbag

@Baymule   I finally got around to doing the floor under the stove this last summer. Maybe I will get the rock on the wall next summer.  It wasn't too hard, but I have tiled many many floors, walls, and counters over the years.  Make sure you have a good wet saw, don't try to use the nippers or one where you score the tile and snap it.


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## Latestarter

You might also want to attach a flue pipe leading outside and remove the candle and other paraphernalia from the top before lighting/using...


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## babsbag

Ya' think?    There is a fire burning in it right now and I am not running out of the house coughing and there is no wax burning so maybe I took care of the "details". Just look at the pretty floor and forget the rest.


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## Southern by choice




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## Latestarter

Knew I was gonna get slapped...   and yes, the floor is quite attractive  you did a nice job!


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## babsbag

Yeah, your a brat but we like you anyways.   

What kind of stove are you using?

I needed to do the floor before the FHA inspection for the refinance. I also needed to have the 1" air gap between the cement backer board and the sheet rock.  My DH thought I was crazy to do this but I just had a feeling that it would be a stickler if it wasn't done and low and behold, the inspector looked for and even measured the air gap.    I was going to get the stacked stone slate on the wall before the inspection but the floor took a little longer than planned as cutting the laminate in place was a little time consuming to get the angles right. I tend to be a perfectionist on stuff like this. The inspector didn't care if it wasn't done as long as what was in place was safe, and that is why I did the floor...sitting on brick stepping stones looked a little weird. 

There was also a bit of planning and research to do before putting the slate floor in a manufactured home. I won't bore you with the details of that decision.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> There was also a bit of planning and research to do before putting the slate floor in a manufactured home. I won't bore you with the details of that decision.



You mean like "Did the manufacturer include the laminate as part of the floor thickness for load bearing measurements?" "Can the floor support the weight?"



Latestarter said:


> So I decided to give this here stove a try. Fired up just about perfect, damp wood and all. Been burning now about 4 hours and the main part of the house is at ~76F... the back bedroom where the computer is is around 70F. I have the heat setting at medium, all the ceiling fans going, and a large pot of water sitting on the top grate which is just below boiling. I'm sitting here in just a pair of shorts, bare foot, having just recently come in from the spa. I am pretty sure this stove is going to be all I'll need this winter.   Next few nice days I'll go get the rest of that downed tree cut up.



76F in the house in December?? You sure are a "Texas boy" now! 

We have the thermostats set to 60F at night, 65F during the day. The wood stove is in the SW corner of the living room, about halfway along the outside south wall (where the prior owner put in the "hearth" and metal chimney) in the original building of the house. The space rarely gets to 70F since the stove is sized for a house of ~1,500 sq ft (which is pretty much what the size of original building of the house) but with an open staircase and a door to the rebuilt north building at the top, the heat happily rises to the 2nd floor of both buildings.

70F in the bedroom? The wife would move out. She thinks 60F in the bedroom is too hot.


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## Baymule

@babsbag what you have done so far looks real nice. When you finish up, post pictures and tag me! We will have to do the same thing, being as we are living the dream in our doublewide.  And per insurance, we can't get just any ol' wood burning heater, it must be mobile home approved. What's up with that?  

@Latestarter it sounds like your wood burning heater will do the trick! And this freezing cold front we have coming at us won't last long. This is the south and we don't put up with much of that around here.


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## babsbag

Bruce said:


> You mean like "Did the manufacturer include the laminate as part of the floor thickness for load bearing measurements?" "Can the floor support the weight?"



We bought our house new and we installed the laminate; had them leave out the carpet so no load bearing measurements on that.  With the small amount of tile I was doing and the fact that the house is newer and on a perimeter foundation and very sturdy I was more concerned about the tile making the particle board sub-floor warp. We have a sub-floor called Cresdeck and it is "water resistant" and very tight particles. What I have seen so far it does not warp when wet, we had a water line under the sink get chewed by a mouse and a flooded kitchen but no floor damage. 

I was also concerned about the flexing of the sub-floor and even if I can't see it I am sure it is there. I used an uncoupling membrane called Ditra. It is supposed to allow the tile to become its own unit and not be attached to the floor so it doesn't crack.  So far so good. Originally I was going to rock the walls all the way to the ceiling but I have decided that that may be too much weight for that area and I am going to only go half way up. 

I would never tile the entire house, as much as I would like to. Too much work to do to ensure that the floor can handle the load. In my guest room I am installing vinyl self stick tiles that have actual grout installed.   They say I can't install self stick over particle board so I am going to paint the floor first. If there is a will there is a way. If I like it I may do it in my kitchen someday, right now the kitchen is the vinyl flooring that came in the house and I am not fond of all the little pits it has in the design, collects dirt that can only be removed with a scrub brush.


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## babsbag

Baymule said:


> And per insurance, we can't get just any ol' wood burning heater, it must be mobile home approved. What's up with that?



Most of the new stoves are approved for manufactured homes. One thing to be careful of is that you don't have an airtight house. If you do you need to put a vent in the floor behind the stove so it can draw in outside air and not use up all of the oxygen in the house. We had to do that by code in a house we built years ago. I didn't worry about it here as I have a water cooler vent in my hallway that never really closes well so air can come in there all of the time. Plus the weather stripping around the back door is  a constant mess due to dogs scratching to come in. No airtight home for me.


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## Bruce

Many wood stoves have an optional "outdoor air for combustion" feature.


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## Latestarter

Sorry I didn't get back to the question... I have more of an internal wood furnace vice the typical wood stove.




 

The door on the right opens to expose the thermal upper door for wood and lower door to access the drop tray for ash/coals.  The thermostat up top graduates from low through medium to high heat. All it actually does is varies the size of an air intake opening down near the bottom.

I went out and spent about an hour cutting up more of that downed tree late this afternoon and this time I cut a 1/2 dozen large sections from a 12-15" diameter limb. They actually split very well using a maul instead of just an axe. So now I have some sizeable chunks that should burn overnight. Nice and warm in here right now. Says it's 39 outside and supposed to be high 20s by morning. It clouded back up so not sure it will get that cold. Time will tell. Next few nights are supposed to be mid 40s to low 50s so probably won't even burn the stove.


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## babsbag

That is a different kind of wood burner but it sounds like it works well. I have a lot of cut oak that needs to be split and I may be awesome but I am NOT that awesome.   I have a friend with a PTO driven wood splitter and I need borrow it.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds pretty 'Toasty' there....and is that the new 'Throne'? looks like it sure 'Fits the Bill'!!....really Nice!!....


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## Baymule

You just had to go and post a picture and remind me didn'tja?  I am so jealous! No, really,   you have a wonderful wood burning heater. My parents had an Ashley and they heated their whole house with it. I will get my wood burning heater some day......


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## CntryBoy777

When Bay?.....when ya move to a place that gets below 30??...


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## animalmom

Oh, Oh @CntryBoy777, tsk tsk and all that.  It DOES get cold in Texas... stop laughing that is impolite  .  It has snowed in Texas, why I remember not too many winters ago where we got 2' of snow.  We get more than enough days of mid 20's with nights in the teens.

Now before all you more northern folks chime in about how 2' of snow 'taint nothing, why you walked to school through umpteen feet of snow uphill both ways, there are some of us who don't appreciate snow, don't want to see snow except on the mountain tops far away, don't want to drive in it, just don't want to deal with it and the salt and the sludge and the cinders and don't want to deal with the stains on the hem of your trousers due to the mess snow makes.  That's why we live here and not there.  Thrilled for you folks who love snow and winter sports but the goats and I say "meh" to the white stuff.

I'm with you @Baymule, go get yourself a good wood burner.  We enjoy ours.


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## NH homesteader

Snow isn't a big deal here...  But we have the infrastructure to handle it.  Lots of money in plow trucks,  roads are built for it,  etc.  We have snow tires,  4wd... 2 feet in Texas is a big deal! 

2 feet here is a dusting. Lol


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## CntryBoy777

I know it does....even witnessed Snow in Laredo....waiting on a load to haul out.....and over in El Paso too....most all can 'Brave' thru a day or two....or even a couple of hours....but, just because others find it 'Humorous' shouldn't upset ya so much..........cause we all need a good 'Laugh' every once in a while....they just seem to be Bigger in Texas....I guess ....heck....people around here 'Freak Out' and 'Bare the Shelves' at the stores when there are just Flurries with no accumulation....people 'Bundle Up' in Florida if it dips below 40 thinking it is a 'Polar Express'....they speak of Freezing temps in 'Hours of Duration'....it truly is entertaining to see others Out of their 'Environments'....even if it is a few times or hours per year....


----------



## Baymule

CntryBoy777 said:


> When Bay?.....when ya move to a place that gets below 30??...



I'll have you know that it got down to TWENTY TWO DEGREES Thursday night and there was ICE on the water buckets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 



NH homesteader said:


> Snow isn't a big deal here...  But we have the infrastructure to handle it.  Lots of money in plow trucks,  roads are built for it,  etc.  We have snow tires,  4wd... 2 feet in Texas is a big deal!
> 
> 2 feet here is a dusting. Lol



2_ feet_ is a big deal in Texas? Ha! Try 2 _inches!!!_ 2 inches will shut the highways down, schools close, businesses close and the idiots drive fast and have wrecks!

@animalmom a wood burning heater is on my wish list, got other things in front of it though.... 

@CntryBoy777 snow, hurricanes, it's all the same. People go into a panic and wipe out the grocery store shelves. Not me, I am stocked up and don't have to fight crowds for that last loaf of bread....we sure won't starve in 3 days!


----------



## NH homesteader

TWENTY TWO?


----------



## Baymule

NH homesteader said:


> TWENTY TWO?



*YES!!! AND THERE WAS ICE!!!!

*


----------



## Bruce

Heat wave! It was 14F here this morning, supposed to be 13F tonight but could be lower, they predicted higher for last night.


----------



## CntryBoy777

@Baymule yeh....'Country Folk can Survive'....and I've been all over your 'Neck of the Woods' down there several times...even dropped a load at a Target down there....


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Heat wave! It was 14F here this morning, supposed to be 13F tonight but could be lower, they predicted higher for last night.



And THAT'S why I live in TEXAS!


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> @Baymule yeh....'Country Folk can Survive'....and I've been all over your 'Neck of the Woods' down there several times...even dropped a load at a Target down there....



Somehow that just reads, well, SO WRONG!!!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Now, now Bruce..... it was a Loaded trailer of 'Goods' for the shelves in the store....I was a truck driver...hope that 'Clears' up the 'Mess'.....


----------



## Latestarter

X 2. Gotta love the things we can do with the English language...


----------



## NH homesteader

*ICE??? 
*
Bruce it's warmer there than it  is here.  Weird. 9 now. 

My husband made a LOT of snow this weekend.


----------



## Baymule

NH homesteader said:


> *ICE???
> *
> Bruce it's warmer there than it  is here.  Weird. 9 now.
> 
> My husband made a LOT of snow this weekend.


9 degrees? And your husband has to MAKE snow?? At 9 degrees I would think the sky could make it's own durn snow!


----------



## NH homesteader

Haha! Tomorrow it should.  Forecast says 3-6 inches. But the skiway doesn't wait for Mother Nature.


----------



## AClark

9 degrees? Yikes. It was 70 here yesterday, my kids were wearing shorts out helping me clean up the yard.


----------



## NH homesteader

Must be nice! Lol it got down to 2 degrees,  is warmer now and snowing like mad! Gotta love when it has to warm up in order to snow. 

Come on Latestarter,  you must miss the snow!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

NH homesteader said:


> love when it has to warm up in order to snow.



WT?????     You people put up with some CRAZY weather, lol.  Has to warm up to snow...walking away...shaking my head...that's just crazy!


----------



## Latestarter

Crazy but true... the colder it gets the less humidity the air can hold. I've been in 20 below weather where the sun was shining, not a cloud in the sky and snow crystals falling from the sky  So dry out you'd get dehydrated doing virtually nothing. Coldest I've ever had to endure was somewhere in the 40 below range, at night, with wind, and I was out on the ramp of a military airfield prepping (pre-flight) an aircraft for a mission (a 3 hour evolution).

I think we're seeing the start of the next ice age as all these weather systems push across the northern tier of states. Seems they've been one after another for like the past almost month.

Truthfully, I do miss the snow. As I've stated (somewhere) I love to wake up and look out the window at a clean, white slate of undisturbed beauty. But it doesn't stay undisturbed for long, and I rarely got to stay inside to observe it. I would invariably have to go out into said whiteness and the associated wetness and coldness, and I've begun to appreciate NOT having to do that  

I spent the day yesterday with the back door opened and in fact it's only ~61F right now but the back door is once again opened to allow fresh air into the house. No fire going right now and have had the heat turned off since yesterday. Tuesday night is supposed to be in the low 40s and Wed night in the upper 30s so I'll most likely start up the wood stove again for those nights. Colder toward the end of the week.


----------



## Bruce

I learned the term "too cold to snow" when I moved to Vermont. Didn't make sense to me either until I experienced it as @Latestarter described. If the sky is clear in January, it is cold outside.

Learned something else too. You can tell when it gets down to about -10F ... snow squeaks when you walk on it.

Is that dishwasher fixed yet? Mel must be getting tire of pre-rinsing the dishes so you can wash them.


----------



## NH homesteader

Yes! Squeaky snow! I love how quiet everything is when it snows.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It's getting close to Time for the preparations for your big 'Get Together' over there isn't it?....Crown Roast and all?


----------



## Bruce

You stop that @CntryBoy777 !!!! I start to drool every time @Latestarter describes what he will be making. Don't you get me going too!!


----------



## AClark

CntryBoy777 said:


> I know it does....even witnessed Snow in Laredo....waiting on a load to haul out.....and over in El Paso too....most all can 'Brave' thru a day or two....or even a couple of hours....but, just because others find it 'Humorous' shouldn't upset ya so much..........cause we all need a good 'Laugh' every once in a while....they just seem to be Bigger in Texas....I guess ....heck....people around here 'Freak Out' and 'Bare the Shelves' at the stores when there are just Flurries with no accumulation....people 'Bundle Up' in Florida if it dips below 40 thinking it is a 'Polar Express'....they speak of Freezing temps in 'Hours of Duration'....it truly is entertaining to see others Out of their 'Environments'....even if it is a few times or hours per year....



We got 8 inches here in El Paso last year over a few hours. Now, considering we have zero accommodations for snow, unlike upstate NY did, it's a real mess. No plows, no salt, and nobody can drive in it, including me. I spent 4 years up in NY but never got the hang of driving in snow. I mean, I can poke along and not hit other cars, but snow banks were another story.


----------



## Latestarter

So it's supposed to be ~40's here tomorrow and cloudy, ~60 with a chance of showers on Saturday (& Sat night too), then 73 and rain on Sunday... 24 Sunday night with a high in the 30's on Monday. I have about a day's worth of fire wood left and my son and his family will be here late Saturday. So I'm guessing I better go cut some more of that downed tree tomorrow before the rain hits, then I can get my son and grandsons to help clean it up completely while they're here.  He and I can both stand to lose a few pounds   Should get a good cord or maybe more out of what's left with splitting the larger trunk sections. There's another standing dead tree that I could also take down if need be.

Went over to the VA in Shreveport on Wednesday for my initial "intro to your primary care provider" appointment. Went a different route and it took right at 1 hour 45 minutes. So now I know for future trips. Having a re-visit 12-27 @1pm so I won't have to get up with the at 6am   I am so NOT a morning person. My chickens learned and adapted... sure hope my other animals I get will adjust as well. 





Listening to a sad song (love this song) right now that always tears me up (24 years in the Navy) Doesn't help that SBC & GW's recent loss is fresh in my mind. Having to put down my long time companion Mystie right before moving, Then there's Sam's loss of her Rumley and Bay lost her lambs and her ewe... So many have lost so much recently... Been a real tough few months for a lot of folks...  Gotta get better soon... A new year's coming.

OK... Enough negative chit... time to look up. Gotta make a long list for my son to help me work on while he's here. Wouldn't want him to get bored and he really looks forward to working with me around the house. Hopefully they'll get a place in the next year or two and I'll be able to return the favor and help him with his place. I really think he just wants me to teach him everything I know. He already seems to think he's a better cook than me... Fat chance!

So Christmas is 10 days away. Hope everyone is progressing toward being ready. I'm thinking of going out and spending some more money for stuff. I will take the grand kids out Xmas shopping when they're here. My son and fam will be heading back to have Xmas day at home. My D-I-L doesn't want the kids to "miss" Christmas morning with presents. They're still young enough that all/some still believe in Santa. They wouldn't have room in the vehicle to have done Xmas here and get everything back home.

So that's my update for now. Hope everyone is surviving the cold and weather.


----------



## Bruce

Lightfoot is one of my favs as well LS!

OK, you gotta stop using that tilda when giving your weather report. Makes it look like you are trying to make those of us looking at negative true temp and much lower wind chill temps feel better about our situation!  Minus 12 true here at the moment. We are looking at about 4" of snow starting about midnight tomorrow. Then it is supposed to go above freezing Sunday and we will get rain. Don't we ALL just love rain on a layer of snow?? Then it will drop below freezing about 3 PM. Oh JOY!!! What could be better???


----------



## NH homesteader

-10 here


----------



## Latestarter

I gotta tell ya, I'm beginning to wonder if NHH ever sleeps... I rarely do and it seems I see her on here as often as I'm on... no matter what hour of the day or night.  

Sorry you guys are dealing with arctic weather. I didn't even think how close a "~" and a "-" look... My temps are no where near what you folks are dealing with! So don't stand still outside... you don't want to freeze in place! Where's that danged shivering smiley?  


   But yes, I very well recall snow followed by liquid moisture followed by more snow and sub freezing weather. It's a driving nightmare! I don't envy any of you that situation. But you know, there's pretty decent property down here up for sale   I know, we've been all through this... 

Hey, tell ya what, if I play the lottery and win a jack pot, I'll buy each of you a vacation for two (you and your SO) to a nice tropic location for a week's stay. Now that's if it happens in the winter months of course. Now, am I generous or what? Sometimes I crack myself up...


----------



## NH homesteader

Ha last night I was awake from 2-3:30 for no apparent reason and have been up since 5:30 so yeah...  That's why.  Haha 

Sounds good to me.  Can my goats go too? They're awfully cold out there


----------



## AClark

Late, we do that at my parents house (well, actually, my "parents" are my grandparents) with the whole Christmas morning thing. I leave the things we get the kids at home and they get to open them either Christmas eve or the day after. We do Santa at my parents place - I just told my kids that I let Santa know where we'd be and he knows where their ranch is. Only my 5 year old still kind of believes now though. I messed up last year using the same wrapping paper for Santa as I did for everything else and she confronted me about it recently, lol.
I ended up telling her "Santa had too much over-head this year, so we left paper out for him to wrap their things with" - she's skeptical. 
We don't even have our Christmas tree up, our pack out day is next week and I didn't see any point in getting it out, all decorated, just for it to be taken down and packed up 4 days before Christmas. 

As for the weather, I guess I'm going to have to rub it in a little bit. It's currently 60F out at 05:30 AM. The high is supposed to be about 75. It's -8F at my SIL's right now, and as much as she likes to rub it in when it's over 105 here, I get my payback in the winter for sure. Worst we have is a wind advisory this afternoon. I hate the wind here, it's ridiculous.


----------



## Baymule

I hope you and your family have a fantastic Christmas together. What better way to celebrate a new home in a new place than celebrating with family! I know @Devonviolet and DH and me and DH came over and ate your delicious steak (you can have us over to celebrate any time you want to LOL) but nothing is the same as family. Better get yourself out there and cut up some more of that tree.


----------



## Bruce

AClark said:


> Late, we do that at my parents house (well, actually, my "parents" are my grandparents) with the whole Christmas morning thing. I leave the things we get the kids at home and they get to open them either Christmas eve or the day after. We do Santa at my parents place - I just told my kids that I let Santa know where we'd be and he knows where their ranch is. Only my 5 year old still kind of believes now though. I messed up last year using the same wrapping paper for Santa as I did for everything else and she confronted me about it recently, lol.
> I ended up telling her "Santa had too much over-head this year, so we left paper out for him to wrap their things with" - she's skeptical.
> We don't even have our Christmas tree up, our pack out day is next week and I didn't see any point in getting it out, all decorated, just for it to be taken down and packed up 4 days before Christmas.
> 
> As for the weather, I guess I'm going to have to rub it in a little bit. It's currently 60F out at 05:30 AM. The high is supposed to be about 75. It's -8F at my SIL's right now, and as much as she likes to rub it in when it's over 105 here, I get my payback in the winter for sure. Worst we have is a wind advisory this afternoon. I hate the wind here, it's ridiculous.



Not as ridiculous as the same wind when it is -12F!!!
Hope you all are dealing OK with the stress of moving. Gotta be even harder with younger children.



Latestarter said:


> .....
> 
> Hey, tell ya what, if I play the lottery and win a jack pot, I'll buy each of you a vacation for two (you and your SO) to a nice tropic location for a week's stay. Now that's if it happens in the winter months of course. Now, am I generous or what? Sometimes I crack myself up...



Aw damn, I thought you were going to bring us to your place for some great eats!


----------



## Latestarter

AClark said:


> ...I messed up last year using the same wrapping paper for Santa as I did for everything else and she confronted me about it recently, lol. I ended up telling her "Santa had too much over-head this year, so we left paper out for him to wrap their things with" ... I hate the wind here, it's ridiculous.



The days before reality were totally precious WRT Santa and the Easter bunny and all that good stuff. Was kind of a shame when they outgrew it. My middle daughter found some sales receipts and tied them to the gifts and that was that   She hated me for that for a long time. But then she always was the melodramatic drama queen type... Still is from what I understand.   Never did question her as to why she was where the receipts were located in the first place  It's not like I just left them on the table...

If you hate the wind there, I doubt you'll find it much better where you're going... Oklahoma, where the wind comes sweeping (ripping) down the plains?



Baymule said:


> (you can have us over to celebrate any time you want to LOL)


Thanks Bay   I think next get-together we have over here I'll do a pork shoulder on the rotiss.      Almost better than pulled pork   Slow cooked over 4-5 hours at low-medium temp... Like butta I tell ya!



Bruce said:


> Aw damn, I thought you were going to bring us to your place for some great eats!


 Hey! Pack a bag Bruce and come on down! I got a spare room you and the missus can use. You can do the tourista thing around TX and meet some of the other TX contingent   I'll promise at least one good meal while you're here   Sorry, but I haven't won a jack pot yet to be able to fund your trip for ya...


----------



## greybeard

I've worked all over the US and traveled the world in my misspent youth. Coldest/most miserable place I ever worked was around Elk City Oklahoma in Jan-Feb-Mar. Windy, wet, muddy, and cold. Nothing between there and the Canadian border but a few barbed wire fences.


----------



## AClark

El Paso is windy all spring and part of the fall - we have a wind advisory today and I can still see out my back door so it's not up to the 50 mph winds they're claiming we'll have...yet. Where I grew up is a wind tunnel too, from March to May it's nothing but sandstorms. They actually made the news last spring for a huge accident on I10 due to a farmer plowing his fields and the wind kicking up all the dust off that. He hadn't planted it, and they got a company to come in with some stuff to spray it down and pretty sure they charged him out the rear end for it. They had to re-route the freeway traffic over an hour out of the way due to it. 

The wind isn't the annoying part. It's the blowing sand that gets me. Walking out the door is like being sandblasted, it literally burns any uncovered skin. So, while I don't need a jacket because it's warm out, I do to protect my arms from the sand, lol. 

Bruce, thanks for the kind words. We are dealing. I'm so tired lately I feel pretty useless, but we've gotten a lot done, and still more to go. Six more weeks and I get my energy back though!


----------



## Bruce

I can sure see the sandblasting issue with big wind. We don't have that problem. How do you keep paint on houses and vehicles?


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Bruce said:


> I can sure see the sandblasting issue with big wind. We don't have that problem. How do you keep paint on houses and vehicles?



@Bruce most of the houses are fake mud (Stucco) or brick, not a whole lot of painted surface.  If the vehicles are stationary they are OK, it is when you are traveling along and a nice 55 to 60mph gust comes along and pick ups a bunch of small rocks and you slam into them at 75mph.  Paint gets pitted and windshield gets cracked/busted up.  Windshield replacement is a BIG business here.

@Latestarter Hope you and your family have a great time together!!  It sounds like it will be a grand ol' time.  Is your son planning on moving close to you?


----------



## Latestarter

There's rumor that they'll be moving to southern TX this coming summer. She's hell bent and determined that she wants to be down in the Houston area. I've tried to talk some sense into her but once she has something locked in it's a difficult go. I've not warned her against Houston to get them closer to me... It's just too hot/humid/crowded/expensive/polluted/crime ridden/etc. and I know that she's only locked in down there as that's where the highest paying teacher jobs are in TX. Well, I have to say money isn't everything and quality of life is pretty important as well. I've tried to explain that she can get a position southeast or east of the Dallas area with quite similar pay, much less heat and humidity, less expensive, less crowded, but still have access to the big city. She's a "city girl" while my son is a "country boy". He'd much rather be in a place like mine with some acreage and a 1/2 hour drive to civilization.

They'll end up where ever works best for them and their plans. Houston is 4 hours away so still much closer than 24+ hours drive where they are now.


----------



## Bruce

Can't get her to run the numbers and see that where the pay is highest so is the cost of living, especially property? Doesn't matter if you buy a house, rent a house, rent an apartment, you are paying the cost of that property.


----------



## Latestarter

Well... it's kinda like you trying to explain to DD1 about her issues with animals and meat/dairy products... she's kinda got it locked in her head that this is what she wants to do and no amount of rational/reasoning/facts/analysis is going to sway her. I mean I sent her links to info on just about all of that stuff. She's working on finishing her Masters and wants to teach where the salaries are highest. From her searches, she comes up with Houston. She did ask about Arlington Heights as well, but that's like right square between Dallas and Fort Worth... I mean you can't get much more big city (and all its negatives) squeeze than that. 

There are some rather large towns (suburbs) surrounded by country just outside the metroplex to the east and SE that have newer school systems, state of the art equipment, high school grades (quality), very good pay... maybe not the highest in the state (Houston) but very close (like within less than a grand/yr), and these are basically "bedroom communities" for the folks who commute into Dallas every day but don't want to live in the big city. So they want their kids to have good schools. 

Rockwall (city/county) is growing at a rapid rate and their school district is rated 39th out of the top 100 in the state. I'm located in the Chapel Hill ISD and it's rated as #80 out of the top 100. This according to nisch.com, and their 2017 best school districts in TX. Starting at #1 and going down, they virtually all are located in and around Dallas/Fort Worth then moving out from there.

I'll show her some of this data while she's here. I'm hoping next summer they come stay for a while and I can watch the kids while they tour around and see what's available and what will work best for them.


----------



## AClark

Bruce said:


> I can sure see the sandblasting issue with big wind. We don't have that problem. How do you keep paint on houses and vehicles?


 It ruins vehicle paint. My house is brick, so no issues with house paint, but my poor truck has pits and stuff in the paint. Stucco is a popular house choice here, it tends to stay painted longer than most stuff.

My 84 dodge is almost literally stripped from spending all it's life out west, it's sandblasted off in most places (all the silver is primer now because it was bare metal)


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> She's working on finishing her Masters and wants to teach where the salaries are highest.


Since money is the only important thing, for her, maybe if you work up a comparison chart showing the high cost of living & what is left over (from her salary) at the end of the month, compared to where the cost of living is less. _Then_, point out the benefits for the family, from living in a less surburban area. Maybe a comparison chart might help there as well.


----------



## Bruce

If she's all about money, why is she going into teaching? Much higher salaries in other fields like engineering


----------



## Devonviolet

Good point, Bruce!


----------



## NH homesteader

@Latestarter you see our team today?


----------



## Baymule

As someone who was raised in Houston I can tell her to STAY THE HELL OUTA THERE! The cost of housing is unreal. my niece bought an old house in an old neighborhood for over half a million. It was a nice neighborhood 40 years ago, then went downhill. She calls it a transitioning neighborhood, I just call it the hood. If a house in Houston doesn't have a cracked slab, it just got built and the slab will crack soon. Houston.


----------



## Ferguson K

I agree!


----------



## SherryV

NH homesteader said:


> @Latestarter you see our team today?



Yes, that means $0.89 Dunkin in the AM.


----------



## Latestarter

Yup, I watched it and was happy  Not a high scoring game and there are still some issues that need cleaning up, but they did what they had to do.


----------



## OneFineAcre

We don't cut wood we have a redkneck fireplace


----------



## Goat Whisperer

We cut wood and have heaters....
Might have to keep that in mind!


----------



## babsbag

@OneFineAcre  My husband the fire marshal wants to make sure that you have a carbon monoxide detector in your house.


----------



## Latestarter

I've had the opportunity to use those propane heaters and they throw off a great amount of heat, but like was mentioned, I'd be concerned about carbon monoxide indoors... I used them camping/hunting. Had to be exceptionally careful with it used inside the tent... fire hazard for sure.

Well, my son and his family left ~5am this morning hoping to arrive back home ~10-11pm tonight (their time). Was really great having them all here and I'm excited at the prospect of them moving to TX next summer. The grand kids had a blast being able to go out and run around the pastures and shoot bows and arrows and the guns. The oldest got a Browning BL22 from me and he loved it. Gave my son a marlin 795 .22. My son and the boys all helped with cutting/splitting firewood from the downed tree I've been working on and cleaning up the scrap branches and hauling them into the woods. Really had a nice visit. So now I can get back to "normal" for me...

Very heavy overcast right now and they may have to drive quite a way in rain. Supposed to rain all day today and tomorrow and into Sunday and Monday as well. Had hoped to go cut more firewood, but at least it's not supposed to be cold along with wet. Forecasting mid 70s for Christmas day. Debating taking out a turkey to cook for myself... Haven't decided yet.

Hope everyone has there Christmas fixins all taken care of by now and are ready to enjoy the holiday weekend. Merry Christmas all!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad ya had a good time with your Family!!....and those grandkids were Excited about getting a gun I bet...especially from Grandpa....


----------



## Bruce

I feel like Rip Van Winkle!! 
Son and family coming, going to eat great.
Son and family just left!

What happened to all the great eats we were going to  vicariously!!!!


----------



## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> What happened to all the great eats we were going to  vicariously!!!!



 I can't win! Some want to hear about the great eats, and others say they don't because they get hungry or want to lose weight or whatnot... What's a fat guy supposed to do? 



Spoiler: Food entry below!



We did have very thick ribeyes grilled to perfection for dinner last night...


----------



## Hens and Roos

put a warning on your post


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks... just edited my last to add a spoiler


----------



## Baymule

Glad you enjoyed family and had a great time. I know you were delighted to show them your new place. What did they think about it? And have you convinced DDIL to come off her Houston  fixation?  Dallas is so much closer if she just has that big city hankering.

We're going to my sister's for Christmas for the family gathering. A neighbor will care for our animals and place. He really watches out for us as does several other neighbors. We are really blessed in that area.


----------



## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> @OneFineAcre  My husband the fire marshal wants to make sure that you have a carbon monoxide detector in your house.



We do 
We never run that heater longer than an hour at the time
Close off all of the bedrooms and it gets up to 73 in the living room
Then turn it off


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I can't win! Some want to hear about the great eats, and others say they don't because they get hungry or want to lose weight or whatnot... What's a fat guy supposed to do?
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Food entry below!
> 
> 
> 
> We did have very thick ribeyes grilled to perfection for dinner last night...


Both of those whiners are ME!! I complain that you tell us what we can't have and I complain when you don't tell us what we can't have.


----------



## Latestarter

I did have a chance to bring up the location issue with D-in-L while they were here. The problem is she's just about finished with her Masters and all the school systems around Dallas want a Masters in English as a second language, which is not what her Masters is in, and she doesn't want to start all over again. They say they aren't fixed on Houston but while here they were both looking at homes to rent... in the Houston area.


----------



## Mike CHS

At least they are thinking of it.


----------



## Bruce

Renting for them is better than buying. They can find out for themselves that Houston isn't all she thinks it will be and they can easily move.


----------



## Latestarter

They will be renting for at least the first year or two.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Hope for the Best and may be things will work out....and it is their decision to 'Live With'....but, it is Time that will Tell....with that kind of Credentials....she obviously is aware of the requirements....we all have a 'Path' to walk in this 'Life', heck that's what makes us 'Different' and when I stood in those 'Shoes' I wouldn't listen to nobody either.....so, be supportive ..ya won't change their mind....so no need to place the 'Barrier' there at the Beginning any way....save yourself the 'Ulcer'.....


----------



## NH homesteader

What is her Masters in? Sorry it's like talking shop for me,lol

Renting is good.  They'll figure out  if they like it there without  having to buy and sell...


----------



## greybeard

If I owned hades and Houston, I'd live in hades and rent out Houston.


----------



## Latestarter

I think it deals with instructional/curriculum development. My bachelors was going to be in Workforce Education and Development with a minor in Training and Instruction. Never finished it... needed college algebra and just never got around to it. Then didn't really need it, and now I'm no longer interested in it ​


----------



## NH homesteader

Haha what age does she want to teach? Or is she already teaching? 

I'm not interested in my college degrees anymore but I haven't been able to convince my student loan companies to feel bad for me.  No return policy evidently?


----------



## Latestarter

I believe she's teaching 5th grade right now. Not sure what grade she wants to teach down here.


----------



## NH homesteader

5th grade is fun. 

Houston sounds like it is not.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> If I owned hades and Houston, I'd live in hades and rent out Houston.



So we can assume that your opinion of Houston is somewhat less than positive?? 

Never been to either. Sounds like I don't want them on my bucket list. Already knew I wasn't interested in going to hades 

I used to skate Theatre on Ice. There are a couple of teams in Houston. The national competition is held at the end of June and we always said "Sure hope they aren't going to have it in hot and humid Houston". A few years ago it was in Chicago, right near O'hare. The teams from Houston were lamenting the fact that it was just as hot and humid in Chicago as it was back home. They were hoping for a short respite.


----------



## farmerjan

greybeard said:


> If I owned hades and Houston, I'd live in hades and rent out Houston.


Never been to Houston  but I was rolling on the floor when I read this...


----------



## Latestarter

So I went and checked the rain gauge this morning and it was over 4" that we received between about midnight and 8am. I walked down to the back of the back pasture to check the "wet weather" creek, which is normally dry with some puddles. It's running near the top of the bank right now which puts it almost 6' deep. I tried to upload a video but the site doesn't recognize the file type


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## frustratedearthmother

Wow - lotsa water there!


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## CntryBoy777

We have one of those too....a bit Deeper and wider in places, keep an Eye out...cause the ditch will act as a deer 'Highway' when it's dry....they do here anyway....and your goats will Love the honeysuckle.....I've gotta work on Uncovering mine so ya can See it........somedays 20-30 deer will Pop up out of the ditch and Graze my field I sow in....could be Meat at the doorstep for ya...


----------



## Ferguson K

I grew up in the wards in Houston.  

I've seen many things.

I wouldn't move back. Ever.

The outskirts aren't so bad though.


----------



## Latestarter

So I had a very relaxing and enjoyable Christmas shared with @Devonviolet and her DH over at their place. Great food, great conversation! Thanks folks for having me over! Next time will be my turn again!


----------



## Devonviolet

Yes, we had a great time as well!  We got to break in our new island, with counter height bar stools. So that was kinda fun. 

We went out to see the animals & the dogs treated @Latestarter like he was family.        Smart dogs!!!


----------



## animalmom

@Devonviolet, What? Wait, new island?  You have done delight to your kitchen and not posted pictures?  Am I so far behind the curve that I missed this?  How are we suppose to enjoy the bounty of others without pictures?  I ask you, is this fair, is this right, is this the BYH way of doing things?


----------



## Devonviolet

​Oh My Gosh!!! I can't stop laughing!  YOU CRACK ME UP @animalmom!   

I thought I posted photos, when we first put the IKEA cabinets together & did a test placement.  I admit I have been remiss and haven't posted pics of recent work. But, we have been a bit busy getting ready for our DD & her family to come, for a visit, before they flew to PA, to spend Christmas with her husband's family.

The island is about 75% complete. I will go to Devonviolet Acres now & post pics of what we have finished so far.  
​


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## Baymule

That is some water highway you have there. We had a dry ravine on our old property in Livingston that turned into a raging river in hard rains. It took a 7' steel culvert and LOTS of dirt to make a crossing. How fortunate that yours is on the side of the property and you don't have to cross it. It sure would be easy to divert some of that for a pond....... jes sayin' 

Glad you and @Devonviolet and her DH got together on Christmas. We went to my sisters in Conroe (a Houston satellite town) and had a good time. It was a nut house, sis has 7 little yappy dogs, her half sister came with her 2 yappy dogs, our daughter brought her one dog and their DDIL brought over hers. 10 barking dogs and 2 babies sounds like a 12 Days of Christmas skewered version.


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## frustratedearthmother

@Baymule ----OMG...


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## Baymule

Let's see.....

On the first day of Christmas my true love sent to me.....
A chicken in a cedar tree
Two little babies
Three milking goats
Four drunk cousins
Five sleeping cats
Six overnight guests
Seven text messages
Eight voice mails
Nine cups of eggnog
Ten yappy little dogs
Eleven broken ornaments
Twelve dog pee puddles


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## Latestarter

@Baymule Those pictures were taken at the center of the back pasture... That stream does run down along the side of the property, and then bisects my property at the back of the back field...   I will have to bridge it to access my back 9 acres of woods, which are predominantly on the other side of that stream. Sounds like you had a very ummm hectic? Christmas visit...


----------



## Bruce

@Latestarter thought you might like this. There is an interview with Gordon Lightfoot on Q that just ended here. Don't know what time (or if) that show is on your local public radio station. At the end they talked about his new single. At 78 his voice is clearly weakened but there are parts that "say" Lightfoot


----------



## Baymule

Ahhh...... I thought it was the ravine that runs alongside your property to drain off the water--which it did, right into the creek! Yeah, you need a bridge!


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## babsbag

@Bruce I am not a concert going kind of person but my brother gave us tickets to use at our local theater and we chose to use them on Gordon Lightfoot. BIGGEST waste of time and money ever. Half of the audience left in disgust at intermission and the half that stayed was either deaf or drunk. He couldn't sing to save his life. You couldn't understand any lyrics, even on songs we knew. It was a perfect example of someone that should have quit years ago. 

@NH homesteader if you figure out how to get the loan holders to give a refund let me know. I didn't get my BA degree (Mgmt. of Information Systems) until I was in my late 40's. While it probably did help me land my last job it certainly has not a thing in the world to do with a dairy.  I sure could use that refund.


----------



## Latestarter

So went over to the VA hospital in Shreveport yesterday to review lab results from last visit. I guess I'm getting old and falling apart. Several meds got changed and I have several consults for various things over the coming couple of months. I did get a nice, automatic (battery powered) blood pressure cuff/machine so I can track my BP. On the way home I drive past a Golden Corral... you know, the best buffet in the USA... Anyway, I like them so I stopped there for dinner. It was a little "off" from others I've eaten at, but it was a smaller town and smaller restaurant and some of their prepared foods were prepared differently than other GC's I've eaten at. It was OK though and a nice break as I haven't been to one in quite a while.

Woke up with a good sized headache this morning between 4-6am. Took a couple of Excedrin and laid back down for a while then finally got up around 6 and put the batteries in and used the BP machine for the first time. BP was high (as I expected, but not terribly high), new meds, need time to adjust. Feel fine now. Debating going out and cutting up some more tree as it's supposed to drop to low 30s tonight so will want/need some supplemental heat (wood stove so as to not need the heat pump). Haven't needed added heat for the past several days with day time temps in the mid 70s or so. I still have firewood from when my son and G-kids were here, but adding to it would make sure there's plenty in case the weather turns and I can't get any cut.

So I was sitting in my recliner this morning watching Good Morning Football and saw movement out of the corner of my eye and Mel was barking a bit. There was a dog in my back pasture. So I took my .22 and fired a warning shot near it and it reversed course back out of the field the way it had come in. Not sure what neighbor it belongs to (if any). It was quite a ways back in the field. Went back in and sat down and a short time later saw movement again... I had a herd of deer prancing around in the back pasture. There was a very nice 8 point buck with a slight limp and ~6 does and a yearling fawn that he was chasing/watching over. My guess is one or more was coming into estrus. They were back there for a good 20 minutes moving back and forth across the rear pasture. I tried to get pictures with my phone but it's not a quality telephoto lens. That buck (through the 9 power scope on the 22) would have made a nice wall mount  and I'm sure his back strap would have tasted very nice seared up with some onion & mushrooms. 

Think I'm gonna head over to TSC and check out a mineral block and some feed for them. It's been a very hard winter for them down here in east TX  I mean all that non existent snow and non-freezing weather... Trying to survive on those +40-50 degree nights has to be terrible for them. And I'm sure they must have hoof/hock problems from walking on the bumper crop of acorns we had this fall. Hmmm maybe that was why the buck was limping... It has been pretty wet though... Actually I just want to lure them back into the open more often so I can watch them. 

So I'm back in my recliner and goll danged it, I see movement again and it looks like another dog is in the back pasture in basically the same place as the last one. So I grab the 22 and go back out on the back porch and this one was NOT a dog... it was a coyote! So I lined up a bit high and fired a round with the 22. I wish I'd taken the time to come get my 243 or even the AR... I doubt I hit him, and if I did it would not have wounded him bad as he was a good 150 yards away. He took off like a rocket across the field and exited full speed all the way back in the opposite corner. So I guess I better get out the 243 and sight it in and make sure it's ready for next time. Kinda nice that the last time I did an ammo purchase it included several hundred 243 rounds  I have plenty of AR ammo, but don't think light armor piercing rounds would be required for this target... My favorite gun is my Wheatherby .300 magnum but that would be some serious overkill... and the bullets cost ~$3 a piece  yeah... $60 or more for a box of 20 rounds. They sure are effective on elk and most other large/formidable animals though.

OK, off to get off my duff. Be well all!


----------



## greybeard

Local 300 Weatherby availability is zero and the only reason I don't own one. 
You can feed, shoot, and extract 300 Winmags in one, but you'll feel the difference in your shoulder and the casing will fireform, which makes them useless for reloading. 
The major physical difference is in the overall lengths.
3.34" for the Winmag
3.562 for the Weatherby

Doesn't seem like much but a huge difference in velocity and energy, with the Weatherby way out performing the Winmag. I shot my brother's .300 Weatherby last week. It was a hoot for sure and a nice flat shooter over the 300 yards we were covering. Heads and shoulders above my Weatherby Vanguard .270, which I also love. I really liked the wooden thumbhole stock he has. Lightens the rifle a lot--my .270 is awful heavy to me, especially nights I sit down at the pond waiting for beaver to paddle by. (yeah I know--big overkill, but the .270 has the better scope over my other rifles.)


----------



## Latestarter

I put a 12x scope on mine (300 Mag) simply because of its ability to shoot flat over longer distance. The first deer I took with it was at >400 yards, clean one shot kill as she jumped a stream. It is a heavy rifle. I loaned it to my brother for an elk hunting season and he shipped it back to me via USPS (dumb ass!) and they broke the stock for me right at the tang so I had to re-stock it. I'm lucky they didn't just outright confiscate it. That cost me twice as much as the rifle did when I purchased it.  The Weatherby specs are much better than the Winmag, but the round seems to have lost favor for some reason. The price difference and availability of Weatherby ammo is crap compared to the Winmag. 

I love the way it shoots and even though powerful, I can shoot it all afternoon without bruising or wearing out my shoulder. My Sako Finnbear 30.06 used to kick twice as hard and therefore was NOT a pleasure to shoot at all. A couple boxes through that beast and I was bruised and beaten... Could barely lift my arm for days afterwards. I gifted it to my son as he needed an elk rifle and I wasn't planning on shooting it again/any more anyways. He'll end up with all my weapons when I pass on anyways. My daughters may want one or two of the smaller calibers. I'll let them figure it out.  I save all my centerfire brass but haven't learned/started reloading yet.

So I bought some deer food, deer corn, and some  loose deer minerals. They didn't have the block I wanted even though online it said it was in store. So I went and spread a bunch of all three in several places down back. Then went and played with the chainsaw, maul and axe for a while. I have confirmed that cutting, clearing, splitting, moving and stacking firewood is much easier with the help of an adult son and his three boys, however young they might be. Haven't started a fire yet, but have a feeling I'll be doing so before the night moves on much further. Supposed to be mid 30s tonight and high tomorrow in the high 50s low 60s. Sat back in the high 60's and night time in mid 50s then 70s on Sunday.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure Hope the 'Consults' don't turn anything Up for ya!!  and with firearms it seems to be the way it is, most of the time....ya grab the 22 to do some squirrel huntin and see Deer everywhere ya turn....if ya take a deer rifle, the squirrels cut Nuts all over ya....I like a rifle....but, I carry a pistol when I'm out and about.... I also carry a slingshot with a few marbles in my pocket....I know ya really enjoyed the Help and Assistance there.....that chainsaw and maul will make Sore...hope ya have some Arnicare with ya...ya may Need it


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## OneFineAcre

A  22 gut shot coyote is a dead coyote


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## NH homesteader

$3/bullet? I guess I need to ask my husband how much our ammo costs... I hope it isn't that much! I know our handgun ammo price but haven't checked it out for the others lately... 

Hope the consults are for nothing major and the BP gets to a better place for you.  My step-dad just was put on another BP medication and was scolded for his dietary choices.

I bet our deer don't feel too bad for your deer! Saw one today,  she looked good.  Hope they do OK this winter.


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## Bruce

If you are going to split any amount of wood, you might want to get a splitter. I have a 10 ton DR electric (quiet and I can split in the little barn where it gets stacked) though you can get a gas engine for it if you need to use it away from electricity. It isn't fast, kinda slow actually, but faster than a maul and a LOT easier on my joints.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all. consults are basically dermatology, got some skin stuff (tags, brown spots, moles) I want checked out, sleep center, they're gonna want me on C-PAP again, which I won't do, and a lab check at 6 weeks to check the new meds balances and effects. May also get an endocrine lab consult for the various things that aren't quite right at the moment. Not sure about that one as I haven't received it yet.

The way my back and wrists feel at the moment, a gas powered splitter may not be too far off in the future. Might check that out tomorrow or after the first... That's when the eagle poops and I get paid. Took a muscle relaxer when I came in from working and right now I just got finished and came in from dozing in the jacuzzi. About cried in pain trying to lift the damned cover off the ground to get it back on top to cover the spa up when I was done. Of course it's my right wrist too, and I'm right handed, so it makes other things difficult to do as well. 

The $3/bullet is only for the .300 weatherby mag... Most other (normal/common) high powered ammo is 1/2 or less, than that. All the deer I saw looked quite good, well fleshed out, good coats, and aside from the limp the buck had they were very "spring-y"/lively running around. I wish I had some game cams I could set up where I spread the food and minerals. Would be interesting to see what it brings in.


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## Bruce

Please talk to the sleep center people about a dental appliance. As you know I wouldn't give mine up for a CPAP if they paid me daily to do so. My nephew has to do the CPAP/humidifier thing apparently because his apnea is too bad for a dental device. But ... I know he was over 300# (at 6'4" 28 Y/O) but has dropped down into the lower 200s of late. I wonder if "it won't work" was said at the higher weight and maybe now he could use a dental device.


----------



## greybeard

> I wish I had some game cams I could set up where I spread the food and minerals. Would be interesting to see what it brings in.



We planted a deer plot mix (200 lbs of it) back in late Oct. A mix of rygrass, oats, Aus peas, crimson clover and turnip seed. The deer are feasting right now, and I just went late this afternoon and pulled 3 sacks of turnips from the same plot for our own table.

I put a game cam out on Dec 16, pulled the SD card on Dec 22nd. Had 336 pictures on it. pretty evenly split between raccoons and deer.. Deer are in poor shape here--very dry fall and scrimpy acorn crop.


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## Latestarter

Sorry your deer aren't over fed. We have a very big acorn crop here. I have damns of them from water washing them down the driveway. We've had two periods of heavy rain since I moved in the end of September. Both over multiple days and both in excess of 4 inches. My pastures are like walking on a sponge. Any pressure and it gets very wet. I don't have a feeder, just spread the feed out on the ground. Don't have food plot(s) yet either.


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## Baymule

You just got there, you'll have your food plots all planted for next year! The sheep have kept our acorns cleaned up. I let them out in the yard and they hoover the acorns up. We have some American Persimmons on the place and I shake them for the persimmons to fall. The sheep love them.


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## babsbag

Goats adore acorns too, but on many places they are listed as poisonous. Tell that to my goats.


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## TAH

Poisonous? 
My goats eat them all the time. I never knew that.


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## CntryBoy777

I have 4 books that list oak on the poisonous 'Lists', with no reference to a variety of oak...of which there are quite a few. We have several here, and they eat them all....leaves and acorns. I believe the problem is with the ones that have really large acorns, because they are the ones the goats won't eat unless we crack the shells and give them the meat, we don't do that so they don't even try....the only trees we have like that are by the pond. I was anxious and concerned last year about it, but they are prolific here and in no way could they be eraticated, so I just said if they die they die....but haven't and infact, they browse on them all winter. They will even use their horns to strip bark from branches and saplings.


----------



## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> I have 4 books that list oak on the poisonous 'Lists', with no reference to a variety of oak...of which there are quite a few. We have several here, and they eat them all....leaves and acorns. I believe the problem is with the ones that have really large acorns, because they are the ones the goats won't eat unless we crack the shells and give them the meat, we don't do that so they don't even try....the only trees we have like that are by the pond. I was anxious and concerned last year about it, but they are prolific here and in no way could they be eraticated, so I just said if they die they die....but haven't and infact, they browse on them all winter. They will even use their horns to strip bark from branches and saplings.



You are probably on to something in regards to species of oaks. Far be it for me to speculate what might be toxic to small ruminates, but it has been my experience with watching whitetails, that they tend to avoid red oak acorns a lot more than the white oak acorns. Deer are in the same order as goats, but with goats/sheep being Bovidae, and deer in the Cervidae families. Deer won't touch acorns here, once a freeze or heavy frost has occurred. They become too bitter.

My cows will also eat white oak acorns like mad in early fall up until first frost/freeze, but won't touch red oak acorns any time.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

babsbag said:


> Goats adore acorns too, but on many places they are listed as poisonous. Tell that to my goats.


My goats favorite food is acorns... If they have the choice between fresh browse and acorns, they choose acorns.


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## CntryBoy777

@greybeard in the yr and a half of 'Observation' of the goats daily...except during Rain of coure...they wil devour all the green, forming, and fresh fallen acorns eargerly; but, as they get more plentiful, they become rather 'Choosey' only selecting the 'Best of the Best'....mostly what we have here is live oak, but their absolute Favorite is the pin oak....they seem to be smaller, but softer shell; they go very quickly...deer love em too.


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## babsbag

I honestly don't know all the oaks we have. I know we have live oak, black oak, valley oak, and more. The goats seem to eat them all, when the leaves fall and turn brown I just call them "potato chips"....the goats love those too. If they were poisonous there would be no goats in CA.


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## Baymule

My sheep prefer the black jack oak acorns, but snuffle them and reject the ones with a worm hole in them.


----------



## OneFineAcre

@Latestarter 
Are you going to try to put some venison in the freezer?


----------



## Latestarter

Not this year. Not a resident and not willing to pay a non resident fee for a license. Gonna feed them and harvest next fall.


----------



## Bruce

How long do you have to become a resident? IIRC when I moved to Vermont there was some time limit after which I was required to get a Vermont DL. Of course that was 37 years ago who knows if it is still the case.


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## Latestarter

6 months. long after the season is over. In all truth, right now I'm enjoying watching them and not really in dire straights when it comes to meat supply.

Speaking of which:  


Spoiler: No drooling allowed ;)



I took out a smoked pork shoulder last night and cooked it up late this afternoon. I got to thinking, I have huge spuds, so washed one up and put it in on a rack along with the shoulder. Been years since I had a baked potato. It was delish smothered in butter with some salt and pepper. I had forgotten how salty smoked shoulder is, and how moist/fatty. Sure tasted good though. Haven't cooked one of those in years either.



So I'm a few hours early by my clock but wishing all the very best & a very happy new year! I'm gonna go veg in my recliner for a bit then finish the evening with a big bowl of chocolate chip ice cream with Hershey's syrup over top, then go use the jacuzzi for an hour then rest up in preparation for the final week of regular season football tomorrow. GO Pats!


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## Bruce

Oops, sorry.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Not this year. Not a resident and not willing to pay a non resident fee for a license. Gonna feed them and harvest next fall.


How are you not a resident

Edited
6 months ?
On your own property ?
Good lord 
I' would have to shoot and drag to the barn


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## NH homesteader

Sounds delicious and of course...  Go  Pats! 

Happy New Year! It's going to be a big year for you!


----------



## TAH

Other oops sorry!


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like a 'Plan' to me.......Hope ya have a Good one too Latestarter!!....better Enjoy it, next yr you'll have Animals to tend too...


----------



## Latestarter

OFA, I closed on the property in mid October. I won't be considered a resident until mid April... 6 months... My registration on the truck is up in Feb so I'll register it here then. Once the truck is registered here, then I'll change over my driver's license to TX as well. They say I have to do the truck 1st. And I have to have my driver's license to present in order to qualify for the homestead exemption and have to have that in place no later than March (Feb is better). The AG exemption has already been filed and accepted (thank God), so at least the property taxes won't make me (as) broke.


----------



## Bruce

Pretty weird that you have to register the vehicle first. Seems like it would be the other way around if there is to be a requirement that one be first. Makes no sense to me.


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> OFA, I closed on the property in mid October. I won't be considered a resident until mid April... 6 months... My registration on the truck is up in Feb so I'll register it here then. Once the truck is registered here, then I'll change over my driver's license to TX as well. They say I have to do the truck 1st. And I have to have my driver's license to present in order to qualify for the homestead exemption and have to have that in place no later than March (Feb is better). The AG exemption has already been filed and accepted (thank God), so at least the property taxes won't make me (as) broke.



Please don't think badly of me but
I would have to poach one


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## Latestarter

All state income comes from other than income tax, so they want to make sure the vehicle is registered and taxes paid before they give the license. I've considered putting the truck in trust so I can say I don't own it. Then they have no choice but to give me the license... they can't force me to own a vehicle to get a license... But the registration runs out in Feb anyways, so I'd have to renew one way or the other... 

There's plenty of poaching that goes on down here. I try to obey the game laws and can't see killing a deer out of season or without a license unless it was a matter of starvation. The game laws are there to try and protect and maintain the wildlife. It's actually mostly paid for by sportsmen/hunters/fishers/outdoors-persons taxes on equipment/supplies and license fees. It's for the benefit of the hunters and those who contribute in the long run. They also have a pretty comprehensive and active anti-poaching campaign down here. I thought about putting that 8 point buck down as it was limping, but it was moving with little effort so the wound couldn't have been that major or life threatening. I considered contacting fish and game and asking them about it.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Blessed New Year to you too @Latestarter!


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## OneFineAcre

Yeah
I'd shoot one myself 
Remind me to tell you about the time I killed a deer with a 22 oz beer bottle


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> Yeah
> I'd shoot one myself
> Remind me to tell you about the time I killed a deer with a 22 oz beer bottle


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## Bruce

Made it drink the whole thing straight down, then dispatched it when it was too drunk to stand???


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## CntryBoy777

Naw, being from NC was in the back of a PickUp and got a 'Lucky Toss' and hit the deer while the truck was Moving There's not too much difference between Ms and NC


----------



## Bruce

OK, now that is SERIOUS redneck!


----------



## OneFineAcre

CntryBoy777 said:


> Naw, being from NC was in the back of a PickUp and got a 'Lucky Toss' and hit the deer while the truck was Moving There's not too much difference between Ms and NC



That's pretty close


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Do tell OFA


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## TAH

x3


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## Mini Horses

Beer bottles can be frightful     I used a pony bottle to pop a drunk (he was attacking a DH in a bar we owned) over the head and was later arrested and charged with  --  assault with a deadly weapon  .   Court trial & all.   Off for self defense.


----------



## Latestarter

Most road hunters I've seen still used weapons (guns) to shoot deer from their vehicles. But I guess a beer bottle traveling at any speed to the head of a deer would put it down quite effectively. Best shot at it would probably be with your first beer, by the end of the 6 pack, it'd be more or less pure luck, no skill involved


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## CntryBoy777

We used to hit road signs with empty qt bottles....not that we wouldn't have tried a deer, but never saw one...


----------



## Latestarter

NOAA said 100% chance of rain for me/my area this morning, worst to happen right about 6am w/chance of hail and tornadoes. They were right on! Huge storm front line passed through and it started right about 6ish. The strongest part of it was below me and I caught the top of the line. Hope @Baymule  & @Devonviolet came through OK. I really feel for the folks in Louisiana and most of Arkansas right now as the whole state of LA and 1/2 or AR seems to be covered in reds and yellows... Alabama & central GA are getting hammered right now as well from the advanced line and they have a lot more to come as well. Appears to be lots of super cell formations. Mississippi had a line pass through the northern part of the state earlier, as well as south central TN but they're both going to be in for it later today as well. Really looks like the kind of huge storms that happen down south in the spring that cause all kinds of tornado devastation.

Batten em' down folks and hold on! Hope y'all come through unscathed.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yeh, we had a wave come thru about 8am and have a pretty strong one headed thru now....and the only ones Happy are the ducks... we have to keep an eye on them cause the gusts can Aid their ability to get over the fence...and Joyce said there was a big coon tapping on the storm door this morning  she thought it was one of the outside cats wanting their canned food or to be put in one of the storage buildings....she got a Shock when she opened the door and was staring at a Coon... she didn't wake me, so now I have to watch for it...


----------



## Latestarter

Oh yeah... coons (especially the big ones) are hell on birds and their eggs... Hope you can dispatch him before he does any killing.


----------



## Mini Horses

We had rain all the way over here on the VA coast from about 11 last night, got stronger this AM.  Slacked some now, more tonight & all day tomorrow      Don't need it or want it right now.  Temps good but, will be colder once it goes thru.   Dang, winter is not my thing.   Used to be just snow but older I get the colder I am and don't want cold weather !

BUT,but, but.....this is so  much better than North of us     I feel guilty to even complain.   Just saying.....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well @Mini Horses sounds like ya are saying you're an old "Goat"   I've come to the same conclusion about myself too.


----------



## Bruce

We had a nice sunny day, around the freezing mark. Made 28.8 kWh


----------



## Mini Horses

The rain front from TX is headed here for AM.    Then, blows out and cools off.   Then the icy water, hot water stuff for a few days.  We generally won't get serious cold until late Jan into Feb. 

Naturally, I have goats that will be kidding then .   They love the stalls & barn time tho.     I just hope they don't have them in the "teen temps".    I have special heat strips that don't create fire but it's like heat from sun.   Plus lots of straw makes a nice cuddle spot.  

Yep, CountryBoy777 -- I'm definitely older than you......71 this month.   Thankfully I am healthy, no meds, no issues -- unless we count not liking cold weather         Still haul & load my own feed & hay into the barn & able to stack it 7 high.   When I can no longer unload the feed, it will be time to consider selling animals because I  handle my farm alone.  I have 8 pigs, 20 minis, 12 goats, 50 + chickens and 15 acres.  Start milking again soon.
It keeps me young!   Now, if I could just figure out who that old gal is that sometimes appears in the mirror in my house -- I'd get her to help me!     I'm old as dirt and VERY blessed.


----------



## Baymule

@Latestarter the rain blew in, lightening struck all over the place, then blew out. We got an inch of rain. No damage to anything. It made the dogs go hide, LOL. Then we went outside and dug out our front ditch to make it drain better.


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## CntryBoy777

Well @Mini Horses ya sound like my Mom. She was like that, but didn't have all those different kinds of animals, mainly poultry. She passed in '12 from lung cancer and never smoked a day in her life. She stayed active working her garden, tending to her birds, went fishing, and cooked food to take to others that were elderly and in bad health. Dad is 94 and failing with dementia. I wasn't so lucky with my health and got bit back in '05 @47 with the first heart attack and the second 4yrs later, until then I always had hard labor jobs from baling cotton to loading, unloading trucks, driving trucks, and general warehouse work. I don't get much done at a time now, but will go out with my boots on. I do salute ya and wish I could've experienced the same as you, but it just wasn't in the Cards for me, so though ya are 71 the Doc says I have the lungs of a 113yr old, so I guess that makes ya a "Whipper Snapper"....


----------



## Bruce

Didn't know Mel was short for Mellow. @Beekissed said on another forum that Merlin looked like a calm dog. He could certainly have been named Mel(low).


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## Latestarter

long night. sore butt (from sitting here). Dr appt over in Shreveport at 9am. need to leave here ~6 as I have no idea where I need to be once I get there. no sense going to bed for an hour. gonna be an all nighter. Should be able to nap out after I get home this afternoon. Might just pull the covers over my head and sleep through to Friday. good thing I've had a bit of military training. not worried about falling asleep on a 2 hour drive, going there or coming back, though I'm yawning pretty good at present. Oh well... time to go make a mug of tea. hope everyone has a great Thursday. stay warm!


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hope all goes well! Staying warm today will be a challenge- we are at about 2* with -12 wind chill- so cold but not as cold as others!


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## Baymule

Not to be mean or anything, but isn't staying up all night when you know you have to drive to the doctor the next day kinda a dumb thing to do? Sleep tight, Sleeping Beauty!


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## Latestarter

Believe it or not the appt today was with the sleep dept for my sleep apnia. Despite already having multiple tests and already being denied dental for an oral device, and already having had a cpap machine and it not working for me, they wanted me to take another sleep test (the results might differ now that I'm not at 6000 feet altitude)   and try out a cpap machine... after I had already TOLD them it would not work for me. They offered to do another sleep study and then write a consult for a civilian dentist to do an oral device at a cost of $2500-3000. I told them no thanks. I just don't get it with these people. I refused to yet another sleep test. There have been 2 and both were conclusive. I've been dealing with this issue for over 20 years, much of that at sea level while on active duty in the Navy. I also refused to do the Cpap as I've already done it and it wasn't a fix for me. So I think that issue with the VA has now officially been exhausted. Told the guy I'll call 1800puresleep and get that one... he was like really? that's a real thing?


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## Bruce

$2,500 - $3,000??? My last one was $1,100 all out of pocket. Find a different dentist.

Don't know what the pure sleep costs, they are pretty careful to only tell you about the trial period and the small amount of S&H you pay for that. Also not sure about the whole "buy one get one free" thing. You only have one mouth at a time right?  Perhaps their "life expectancy" is fairly short? In any case, for the S&H it can't hurt to try!


----------



## Latestarter

Spoiler: All about the food! :)



So I put the turkey in the oven around noon... dog came in around 3am then wanted back out around 6am. I didn't even get out of bed till ~9:30 (  ) Anyway, as I was saying... the house has smelled wonderful all afternoon what with roasting turkey and the wood fire smell from the wood furnace. The bird came out 2.5 hours later cooked to perfection! Made the gravy and realized I was a dummy and should have put a big old spud in there for the final hour and a 1/2   Don't have any rolls either, so had to soak up the gravy with toasted bread w/a little butter. Opened a can of cranberry sauce to add a little "tart" to the tastes, and just steamed up a big bowl of fresh green beans with some butter, salt and pepper for my first dessert. I'm gonna have rice pudding as my second 



So it's been lightly snowing for the past couple of hours. Barely a dusting, not that it's not sticking, it's been sub freezing since last night, but it's just not snowing enough... Brings back memories of a past time in life living in New England when I used to go deer hunting Thanksgiving morning before coming home to cook. It's gray and cold and snowing... just the type weather to get those deer up and moving. It's a really pleasant time to be out in the woods... quiet, serene, peaceful. 25F right now and talking low-mid teens tonight.

Mel can't seem to make up his mind... in or out. I don't think the cold is really bothering him. I think it just smells better inside.   He's already had his first serving of scraps and will get more later this evening mixed with his dog food. Don't you feed YOUR dog(s) turkey and gravy for dinner?  I thought everyone did  It's a bit chilly back here in the back bedrooms... would be ideal for sleeping. Trying to keep the wood furnace going. It's set to about 3/4 wide open right now and the kitchen end of the house is toasty. Think I'll prob have to open it up tonight to keep the house warm. That means filling it with wood about every 4 hours or so. coals will last ~7-8 hours, but don't provide as much heat.


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## CntryBoy777

Suppose to get down to 15 here tonight...17 tomorrow nite, then it begins to warm to high 20's til Tues...the highs are 28 tomorrow building to the 60's on Tues...gotta do what ya gotta do to stay Warm!...you'll be up going to the bathroom anyway....


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## Baymule

Sounds like a delicious meal! We had smoked link sausage cut in small chunks and chopped cabbage stirred in it. Yummy!

I just love the way the VA listens to your concerns about your health. What morons. Paid by the gooberment, good job performance or bad job performance--it doesn't matter. Unless you are the patient. 

Since it is so cold and unfriendly outside, we did inside stuff the past few days. DH worked in his room (3rd bedroom) unpacked boxes, went through old papers, threw away a lot of crap. I went through boxes and did the same. I swapped drapes and drapery rods around and we took some stuff to the Salvation Army store. we still have boxes we haven't unpacked.......


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## Mike CHS

It looks like we need to carry hot water to the tubs 3 times a day in this weather.


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## Bruce

Mel used to live in a colder climate, you KNOW he doesn't feel the cold. Merlin would lay out in the snow even  WHILE it was snowing. Not even curled up, just out straight. 

I think since Mel is a combination pet/LGD, he needs an "always unlocked" dog door so he can go to work when he thinks there is danger outside. I saw Merlin bolt from a (presumed) dead to the world sleep in the barn and race out the alpacas' door on more than one occasion.


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## Latestarter

Once the fencing is done for pastures, and shelters built for the coming critters, he'll be a pretty much full time outside dog living with the critters, so no dog door needed right now. Of course he's been away from goats now for 18 months, so there'll have to be an adjustment period going back to being what he was bred to be. If it doesn't work out, he'll be a companion dog for me. Either way, we both win.


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## Bruce

I don't know @Latestarter I think he's gotten pretty used to the comfy life hanging in the house with Dad. I expect he would do night duty when he perceives a threat but during the day will want to be in with you. Put those fences up and get Mel a girlfriend to do the guarding work when he is slacking on the sofa.


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## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> Put those fences up and get Mel a girlfriend to do the guarding work when he is slacking on the sofa.


That proves it!   "Man works from sun to sun - but woman's work is never done!"


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## NH homesteader

Ha! I've never heard that! I was just grumbling about that yesterday.


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## CntryBoy777

That is why we operate as a Team, we can each do it all, but Joyce has difficulty with the Heavy work. So, that falls to me but all the other is a cooperative between us. It eally comes in handy when one is feeling a bit "Under the Weather".


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## Mike CHS

We share the load here also but the heel on Teresa's winter boots tore off yesterday so all she had this morning was un-insulated mud boots.  We were out doing chores this morning and I saw that she was shivering.  She didn't need much coaxing when I asked her to go inside and order some boots online while I finished up outside.


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh, Joyce demands to tend to her portion each morning, but I will help her tote the water she needs. She has always been the Early morning person of the Team, and I am the Night owl....tho since we have had the goats I haven't been much of one... mainly because it was my desire and decision to get them, so I am the main caretaker of them and now I'm not up much past 9-10 now....used to be 2-3am.  Poor Teresa has had a tough couple of days...Glad the contact didn't turn out to be a serious issue and the Boots make a big difference for Sure!!


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## frustratedearthmother

Animals are "mine" and I've always considered the chores that go with them to be mine too.  Not saying DH doesn't help - he is happy to do so if I need it.  He loves to drive the tractor so I "let" him do most of the tractor work.  

He's more of a help any season other than summer.  He has health issues and he simply cannot tolerate the summer heat. He also has balance AND vision problems so I try to keep him out of the mud (which is darn near year round lately), lol. He's a big guy so I'd have a hard time getting him up after a fall.

He tried to work on the old barn roof one summer and fell off the ladder and was compromised for about 6 months after that.  It really is easier on me if he doesn't try to help me, lol!  However - he's much better at organization than I am and he doesn't mind cleaning the kitchen - so our arrangement works well for us.


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## CntryBoy777

Joyce is a true Northerner and "Wilts like Lettuce" in the heat and with my difficulties I can't handle it near as much as I use to either. So now we both soldier thru the Cold and Heat as best we can. @frustratedearthmother it is definitely best to keep DH's feet on the ground and as long as it works it is a Team effort.


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## lcertuche

Man alive it sure is harder when you hit that half century mark than when I was a young lass, that's for sure. It takes a team effort.


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## babsbag

Don't get me started on who does or DOES NOT do stuff around here. I only have help three days a week but I seldom get three days, more like three hours.  The animals are mine and all chores related to them are mine, but so is wrapping pipes, mowing lawns, cutting weeds, fixing sprinklers, caring for the orchard and garden, building decks, all landscaping, repairing fences, hauling garbage to the road, cleaning the pool, cleaning the shed, cleaning the house, paying bills, doing taxes, taking care of all details like car registration, replacing light fixtures, fixing stuck doors, painting, dishes, and pretty much everything else. The more I learn how to do the less he does.   He cooks on the days he is home. 

Now I will say that he is giving me some help with building the dairy but not without me pushing and shoving the entire way and he only does the things I don't know how to do.  The funny thing about all of this, he wanted the 5 acres, I wanted 1/4-1/2 acre with a garden, some fruit trees, and a pool. I have been married for 35 years why or why did I agree to 5 acres ???   I should have known better...I guess it is true that hope springs eternal.


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## lcertuche

I know what you mean.


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## dejavoodoo114

I have been lurking on this thread for a long time. I enjoy reading what you all talk about and you are great for getting me motivated to work on my own farm!

@Latestarter, I have only been dealing with the VA for just over a decade. The most important thing I have learned is that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. It is so easy to get discouraged and just go to outside doctors or just stop caring at all since they don't seem to. Have you received the new card for the Veterans Choice Plan that allows you to go to outside Doctors on the VA's dime?
http://www.va.gov/HEALTH/NewsFeatures/2015/July/10-Things-to-Know-About-Choice-Program.asp

This has really helped some friends of mine to get care closer to home and in a more timely manner. It can also be used for a PCP I believe and this is something I would definitely suggest since you have to drive so far. But even getting the sleep study and other recommendations done outside the VA and closer to home would be nice for you. Outside providers have been able to get the VA to do things for my friends that the VA was reluctant to do... I have not bothered with this since I have a PCP with the VA in my town now and I have given up hoping a skilled ortho surgeon will pop up in this state so I no longer bother traveling to my hospital. 


As far as the cpap goes. I will let you know that they have improved a lot. My father's new one is wonderful, FYI. However, I would Absolutely call patient advocates. Make a huge stink about how they SAID you have sleep apnea and that cpap never worked in the past but they are still not giving you another option. Seriously, patient advocates can work wonders if you bug them enough. The fastest and most efficient way to get things going is to involve you VFW or whoever you are associated with and ask for their help as well as patient advocates. You can also let them know you are writing a letter to your congressman. Do they really want you dying in your sleep because they didn't want to try something that might work????? hehe

Just please, from someone who has given up, don't give up! Keep pushing and fighting and you can get what you need from them. Save your money for your farm.


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## Latestarter

Greetings Deja and welcome! Thanks for finally joining in. I did get the choice plan mail and card, just haven't done anything with it (yet). Wanted to see what kind of service I'd get with the VA down here. I have to say it's more then Denver, but is taking longer due to understaffed and hospital under construction/expansion. Got disability before I left active duty and assigned with VA so I was already accepted before I retired. Been with VA since mid 2000. Gosh... hard to believe I've been retired for almost 2 decades.

Anyway, on a lighter note, I drove over to Jersey Girl Dairy for milk and yogurt. On the way back I got a call on my cell from @Devonviolet and was chatting with her when I passed a state cop going in the opposite direction who immediately slowed, pulled off and turned around, so I knew I was gonna get a talking to at the least. Told her I had to let her go as I was gonna be dealing with a cop. Will have to finish that covo another time. My speedometer doesn't work so I base my speed off my tach. I believed I was in a 70 MPH zone and as it turns out I was doing 71. Turns out that the cop said I was actually in a 60 MPH zone, and it didn't turn to 70 for another 1/4 mile. 

So we discussed that I just moved here and he asked when and come to find out I have(had) 90 days to get my CO license replaced with a TX one :-( Asked where I was coming from and going to, showed him the yogurt and told him about the dairy, he'd never heard about it. Told him he could pull my info and I should be clean... completely forgot about the warning (3 in 1) I got back in Sept @ 2am heading back to CO from looking at houses here. He told me it showed up I said oh gosh, sorry, I forgot about that... :-( One of the other warnings was because one side of the brake light up on the cab was out, and he pointed out that it's still out :-( Anyway, He stood by what he said and only gave me a warning (3 issues)  Needless to say I drove home very conscious of speed limits! So now I need to get the truck TX inspected, then get it registered down here, then go get my TX driver's license... <sigh> Always something else to do that's gonna cost money...


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## babsbag

The cab brake light matters?  I don't think my truck has one but would never guess that it's required to be functional.


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## Mike CHS

In most states that I'm familiar with you may not have to be equipped with a cab brake light but if it has a light (any light) they are supposed to be functional.


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## CntryBoy777

Of course, as always, it depends on how much of a "Stickler" they are about the "Black and White Letter" of the Law they are and if ya have CDLs they will pinch ya for all they can get. That's why I gave mine up yrs ago, not to mention the difference in Price. We have the same law here that ya have 90days to get it all changed over too.


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## Bruce

I suspect you won't be able to get the truck inspected if the high mount brake light doesn't work. As Mike said, if equipped, it must work.

My wife's car (and mine) have (useless) fog lights. For some reason the glass lenses on her's cracked, the lights still worked. But cracked is a no-no. So I ordered 2 and when I went to install them I dropped one. 
On the concrete garage floor. 
Like buttered toast, of course it landed wrong side down. Took it to get inspected with 1 light. Nope. If they exist they have to work. What to do when the inspection is due ASAP? Drive it back home, take the working light out, return to dealer to get it inspected. Seems pretty stupid to me. It is OK to have loose connectors for TWO lights hanging out behind the grill with whatever weather coming through the holes for the lights but it isn't OK to have 1. Waited for the replacement to arrive before installing them.

The wife of a guy I used to work with got a ticket for speeding once. She figured if she could SEE the speed limit sign, she could go that fast.  Seems to be a common misconception with a lot of people here. Actually, why wait until you can see it? Since you KNOW it is 1/4 or 1/2 mile just around the corner, it is OK to drive that fast 'now'. Happens all the time.


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## NH homesteader

I was pulled over for that once, back in high school. Very nice police officer. I drive slow now. I love driving fast but I am far too frugal to chance a speeding ticket! 

We had to replace the muffler on our new Jeep for inspection. Apparently the one on it was legal in VT and illegal in NH.


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## Bruce

In what way? Did they have a "fart can" HEY LOOK AT ME!!!!!!! muffler on it? 

I think that technically those are illegal here. I don't think you can put a muffler on that is louder than OEM. Ignored all the time of course (a very high percentage of Harleys come to mind) but I've never heard of anyone getting ticketed for it. Wish they would. 

Illegal in NH? What happened to "Live Free or Die"??


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## NH homesteader

We have a good deal of illegal things in NH. Drug laws, gun laws... Both more strict than in VT.


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## Bruce

I think you would have to go some to have less restrictive gun laws than Vermont's. Don't even need a permit for open or concealed carry.


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## NH homesteader

We can open carry without a permit, need one for concealed. Which reminds me, mine's up in April. Thanks! Lol


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Told her (Devonviolet) I had to let her go as I was gonna be dealing with a cop. Will have to finish that covo another time.


Somehow I missed the part about having to deal with a cop. Usually when someone says, "uh-oh! Gotta go!", I say, "okay, BYE". 

Latestarter said:  [/QUOTE]So we discussed that I just moved here and he asked when and come to find out I have(had) 90 days to get my CO license replaced with a TX one :-(   [/QUOTE]

Good luck with that my friend!  When we came to TX & went to get our driver's license, we had the standard forms of "proof of identity". But, that wasn't enough. We had to leave & get 3 more forms of ID. I can't remember which ones. Since I was married before, I had to prove that I was married & divorced before I married my current DH. In PA, I had. DL back in the 80' & when I moved back in 2003 . . . no problemo. . . I was able to use my previous DL number. No hoops to jump through. In and out in ten minutes.

Not here!  I needed 6 forms of ID - and my previous TX DL was not acceptible as one of the six.  Since I didn't have copies of all of them, I had to call a couple different states & counties & pay close to $70 in fees to get copies sent to me.  

The frustating thing was that the licensing officer told me if I came from Mexico, the only ID I would need was my Green Card. Grrr!


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## NH homesteader

I had no idea the DMV could get worse than in CT. I think Texas has actually succeeded.


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## Bruce

SIX forms of ID??  I can't even imagine what those would be.

Geez, I would think a passport and a bill from your current residence to prove you live in the state would be plenty. Of course a lot of people don't have passports.


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## Mike CHS

This is another thing I love about Tennessee.  
I had military ID, passport and previous paper copy of Tennessee license and South Carolina license. SC license was all I needed.


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## Baymule

My husband and I buy knives with Police or Sheriff on them. He loves to stop cops and give them a knife. Recently he was stopped on his way to town for speeding and was given a warning. He then told the officer that he wanted to give him something, it was in the back seat. DH gave the officer a knife and the officer was delighted. He said, "You're the guy with the knives!"  I told Dh that word is getting around and pretty soon they'll be stopping him so they can get a knife.


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## NH homesteader

That's cool! The police in my town would probably take it as a threat and tackle him. Oh New England...


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## farmerjan

Brown-nosing??????


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## CntryBoy777

As long as you have a valid license from another state and proof of residency ya just exchange them here in Ms. They also quit requiring vehicles to be inspected here too.


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## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> Brown-nosing??????


Nope. Appreciation. We tell the officers that we deeply appreciate what they do and thank them for doing their job. Most of them are stunned that anybody would so something like that for them. The knives aren't expensive, buy 20 and the price goes down. Our law enforcement officers are ambushed and killed far, far too much these days. Even one is too many. We just want them to know that we care.

http://knifeimport.com/tac-force-ta...d-opening-spring-folding-knife---sheriff.aspx

http://www.unlimitedwares.com/tac-force-tf-640pd-7-5-police-spring-assisted-folding-knife/


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## Baymule

NH homesteader said:


> That's cool! The police in my town would probably take it as a threat and tackle him. Oh New England...


He is careful to explain what he is doing......


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## CntryBoy777

One day I stopped by the sheriff's office here, went in and asked a question, the women in the office didn't know the answer and told me to step to the Booking window and ask, I declined the offer and told them it was too Close to them Bars and it wasn't that important. They called the Sheriff himself on the phone. The question was this, How long of a blade is Legal to carry in Public in the state?
The answer was, if it is legal to open carry an AR in public then any size Blade is legal. A bowie, machete, or samuri is fine to walk the streets with.


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## NH homesteader

I think it's very cool. I am a huge police supporter. Some of ours are a bit too... Enthusiastic though. One spent a few months pulling people over because their inspection stickers were 1/4" too high. uh huh...


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## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> SIX forms of ID??  I can't even imagine what those would be.


I had to stop & think about it, but came up with a list:
1.  PA Driver's License
2.  Birth Certificate
3.  Social Security Card
4. Marriage License (from my current
         marriage)
5.  Divorce Decree (from my first
         Marriage)
6.  Marriage License (from my first
         Marriage)

The last two blew me away!  I said, "Are you kidding me???  I had to prove my divorce before I could get married to my second husband."  They didn't care.

Actually, now that I think of it, I needed EIGHT forms if ID:
7.  Copy of apartment Lease
8.  Copy of current utility bill

Since the divorce happened in 1987, I didn't have the Divorce Decree, and why the heck would I want to keep the marriage certificate for marriage to a man who made my life a living he**????

So, I had to write to PA, to get the Divorce Decree. My sister still lives where we grew up, in California. So, she was nice enough to go down to the county courthouse, to get the copy of the marriage License. Oh, and guess what???  She didn't even have to give her ID, or prove I was the one on the license and that she was my sister.

To make matters worse, I have a photo copy if the county birth certificate that the
Doctor signed when I was born. But the Licensing officer wouldn't accept that. I had to call the county office, in CA, where I was born, and get an "official, _*embossed*_ copy" of my birth certificate!!!


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## babsbag

I am a supporter of law enforcement, when the deserve it. Our county seems to have a few right now that think they are pretty special and they themselves are above the law. That makes me angry.

I have to get an bi-annual smog check on my cars but no other inspections, even when sold. Maybe if from another state...IDK, never have bought one that way.


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## babsbag

@Devonviolet  how did they know that you had been previously married?


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## CntryBoy777

There were 2 guys driving thru Ga in a car and they got pulled over just north of Atlanta. The officer walked up to the car and ask the driver for his license, the driver handed it to him, he said to get out and put your hands on top of your vehicle. The driver complied, the officer took out his nite stick and commensed to beating the guy for smart mouthing him, once the guy fell to the ground, the officer walked over and tapped his stick on the passenger window, the guy rolled it down and asked the officer what he had done. The officer beat him too, when he finally stopped the guy kept asking what he had done. The officer looked at him calmly and replied, Boy I am just making your Wish come true. The guy said my Wish, to which the officer explained I know when you 2 are back on the road, you are going to look at your buddy there and say I wish that SOB would've beat me like that, so I did. It is a joke told at truck stops arojnd the country...well use to anyway.


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> @Devonviolet  how did they know that you had been previously married?


They asked me if there were any previous marriages, I think they also asked me how many legal names I have had in the past.


----------



## babsbag




----------



## CntryBoy777

Babs I just noticed that ya changed avatars...Good Pic!! So cute.


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## CntryBoy777

I'd be in trouble, because I couldn't come up with that many pcs of ID. One reason I refuse to leave the lower 48. Almost was denied entry back into the US from Canada on a run, was coming back in at White Horse, Montana from Regina. Once we got back in I vowed to never cross the border again.


----------



## Devonviolet

Yikes!  That's scary! 

DH & I went from MN, into Canada, on the west shore of Lake Superior, when we were first married.  It was an amazing trip, by the way . . .

I don't have a passport, so I'm sure we only showed our MN driver's licenses. Both in and out of Canada went without a hitch.


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## CntryBoy777

Was that before or after 9/11/01?


----------



## Devonviolet

Before.  It was in October of 1999.  But, you make a good point, @CntryBoy777.  They were a lot more paranoid after 9/11!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yeh, had to have a embossed copy of original Birth Certificate, DL, and $5. Now, ya have to add a Passport. I've never had one and don't intend on getting one.


----------



## farmerjan

I was teasing on the "brown-nosing" comment.  Sorry. 

I went to Canada in 2003, flew, and had to have birth cert. and photo Id / DL.  Understand now that a passport is also required.  Friend passed away up there and I went to memorial service.  Was supposed to go spend a month up there that summer but he was killed in a work accident in late May.  Sad deal.  But anyway, I don't think I would go now.  My parents have taken their 5th wheel to Alaska a couple of times but are getting too elderly to make the trip anymore and don't think that they have passports but don't know.
Va requires  DL or photo id from previous state, and some 2 other forms of proof of residency but  that's all that I know of.  'Course, if I was an illegal, I could probably get anything I wanted.  Can't get my disability due to not being willing to go "conventional medicine" on this ankle and have the fusion;  been through a bunch of stuff and may as well forget it cuz by the time I might get approved according to the ss lawyer, I will be 66 and eligible for ss anyway.  So I will just hobble along and try to tough it out while doing the prolo treatments.
Sorry guys, don't think Texas has to worry about me moving down there with all that BS to go through.


----------



## Bruce

Devonviolet said:


> Yikes!  That's scary!
> 
> DH & I went from MN, into Canada, on the west shore of Lake Superior, when we were first married.  It was an amazing trip, by the way . . .
> 
> I don't have a passport, so I'm sure we only showed our MN driver's licenses. Both in and out of Canada went without a hitch.



Yep, used to be all you needed was a government issued photo ID ... if they asked. Most often there were 4 questions going into Canada:
"All US citizens?"
"Where do you live?"
"Where are you going and what is the purpose of your trip?"
"How long will you be in Canada?"
Have a nice trip.

Coming back in was similar, just change questions 3-4 to past tense and add:
"Are you bringing anything back that you purchased in Canada?"
Have a nice day.

The only time I was questioned going into Canada was when I took my young (9ish??) daughter up to near Montreal to get ice skates. I showed my DL when asked for it. The guy said "That only proves the state of Vermont allows you to drive". 

I was pretty well put on my heels since they hadn't ever even asked for a DL in the past. Then he asked if the girl in the back was my daughter. Then he wanted to know if her mother knew I was taking her to Canada. OK, the lightbulb glows, he is concerned I'm stealing a child possibly in a custody case. He asked if he could talk to my wife. I said "You can call her but it is Wednesday and she has a 3 hour phone conference every Wednesday from 9 - 12". He finally let me through saying next time make sure I have a letter signed by my wife (like he would KNOW???) saying it was OK to take DD1 into Canada. Yep, carried that! It was annoying but in reality I guess I was also happy they do pay attention to such things. If not for my kid, someone else's.

For land/water border crossings to/from Canada or Mexico you can use a Passport. If you don't have one or don't want to carry it, you can get a passport card. The other option is an Enhanced DL. Apparently the only states with EDL's are:

Washington State
Michigan
New York State
Vermont
Minnesota
BUT they all have the same requirements. Embossed copy of your birth certificate, etc. For land/water border crossing the only difference between the 3 is what they cost and how much room they take in your wallet/pocket/purse.


----------



## NH homesteader

My friend is from Canada and now lives in NH and when she brings her children there to visit her mother she has to bring a note from her husband. Because she's probably stealing her 15 year old daughters. And apparently border patrol knows what her husband's signature looks like. Uh yeah.


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> I was teasing on the "brown-nosing" comment.  Sorry.



I took it as a joke.


----------



## farmerjan

May be a pain, but at least the whole needing permission from the other parent is in part to stop some of the parental kidnapping and going over the border so prevent the other parent from getting back the kids.  There is so much of that with marriages and even just "unions" of whatever sort between so many people of differing nationalities and faiths.  Guess I can see it but I am sure it is a pain.   The note is to cover their behind if there is a question, they can at least say that they did ask and proof was presented.  Kinda like the illegals and the ss #'s and stuff they all manage to have....
Ct, where I was born, will issue a wallet sized birth certificate that is embossed by the city/town clerk or whoever issues the copies of the birth certificate.  That's what I carried with me. Got both full size and the wallet size one to be safe....


----------



## Bruce

Those wallet size BCs would sure be nice. How many people (besides my wife ) still live within driving distance of where they were born to get an official embossed copy of their BC??


----------



## NH homesteader

Around here? Most everyone. Lots of lifers. Myself included... So far. As my husband says in his best redneck voice "ya live here your whole life?" "not yet!"


----------



## Bruce

Ah, and I thought that was an "Old Vermonter" line!


----------



## CntryBoy777

@Latestarter ya doing okay there? Haven't seen around much, just wondering?


----------



## babsbag

Why don't they just ask the child if they are being kidnapped?


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah... haven't had a whole lot to post lately @CntryBoy777  Spent the weekend watching the divisional football games.   One of my favorite sports weekends of the year. Normally some really good games overall. There were indeed a couple of really good ones. My team once again made it to the AFC conference championship game (Patriots, next Sunday evening in Foxborough, MA)  though they did NOT play to their abilities by any stretch  and I certainly HOPE they get their heads out of their butts before next weekend   as they'll be facing a very capable Pittsburgh team. The NFC game next weekend will be Green Bay vs Atlanta in Atlanta. Both games should be really good games. Not sure which NFC team I will root for as both are going to present heavy challenges against my team should we/they defeat Pittsburgh and make it to the Super Bowl 

After the final game I went out to hit the spa and wasn't even able to complete one cycle. T-storms started moving through and some were close enough that I didn't feel safe sitting in a water filled tank with electrical power hooked up to it.   Just looked at NOAA and they mentioned a couple of areas that might see some severe weather, one of which is Lindale. Sure hope @Baymule is all battened down and sees no damages. From the weather radar it appears I'll have a nice line passing over me in about 60-90 minutes or so and more scattered throughout the evening/morning. Forecast is for 30%-80%+ chance of rain right through the whole week except for one day when the chance is a mere 20% chance 

There was/is a chance that I was/will be going to visit @Devonviolet and her DH tomorrow. I was offered the (possible) opportunity to partake of a roasted chicken dinner from among the group that I helped them process last week. With the weather and all, I'm not sure yet, but look forward to the visit if/when it happens (even if their wasn't a chicken dinner involved).


----------



## Baymule

It rained all night here, haven't been out to check the rain gauge yet. It was gray, gloomy and drizzly all weekend. We had all 3 of the grand daughters, 9 years, 23 months and 4 months, plus the dog since Friday night, they will go home sometime today. That wasn't enough crazy, so the 9 year old invited a friend to spend the night. Too nasty to go outside, so we just had utter and total chaos at the speed of a race car making laps in the house. LOL


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well I see it was midnite when ya posted, and I was "Snug as a Bug" in bed... hope ya pulled thru the Mess without too much problem...all of you there in E Tx. Glad your team won as ya Wished. I was just concerned ya might have relapsed with the sinus crap or something. I saw ya here and there, but was limited, so was just thinking ya wasn't feeling good, and was checking on ya to make sure. We have rain in our forecast too, tho most days are in the 20-30% range. Suppose to have storms this evening tho. Thanks for the post and update.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Bay I can hear ya Panting all the way up Here....But, it actually sounds like your kind of wknd...Crazy!!...


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> There was/is a chance that I was/will be going to visit @Devonviolet and her DH tomorrow. I was offered the (possible) opportunity to partake of a roasted chicken dinner from among the group that I helped them process last week. With the weather and all, I'm not sure yet, but look forward to the visit if/when it happens (even if their wasn't a chicken dinner involved).


  

It's no longer "a chance" & no longer "a possible offer" for a chicken dinner invite. It's a firm date, for 4:00 today!

DH &  I are roasting not one, but TWO, of the chickens we butchered, with @Latestarter, on Wednesday. Nothing like the four "F's" . . . Food, Fellowship, Friends & Fun!


----------



## Devonviolet

I just found your post @Baymule. Sounds like tons od fun on the farm. I hope you are feeling better, from your cold.  

I saw your suggestion to post my Elderberry Syrup recipe. I've been wanting to do that, but have been busy here on our farm, plus a whole day trip to Tyler for two doctor appts. I'll try to get that posted in the next day or two.

Our rain started around 7:00 last night, & it rained all night. By 6:00 AM we had 2-1/4" in the rain gauge.  Yesterday we had dense fog in the morning. It had cleared by the time we came out of church at 11:30 AM. But, then by 4:00 PM visability was 100 feet again!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Roasted chicken and elderberry wine....uh Syrup,  sure wish I was headed to Texas.


----------



## Devonviolet

CntryBoy777 said:


> Roasted chicken and elderberry wine....uh Syrup,  sure wish I was headed to Texas.


  Come on down!!!  Y'all are welcome!  At least while the doors are still open. 

Rumor has it TX is planin' to cecede from the Union.  So come while the comin' is good. 

Just kiddin'.     Like I said, it's only rumors & wishful thinkin' on the part of some Texans.  Howsomever. . . it sure would be nice to get some more BYH-ers movin' down East Texas way.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Just talking bout Vistin, I couldn't go Any where else and enjoy doing what we are here...no rent or note, no car note, no bills but phones, car insurance, power and gas, and food. So, I'll be right Here til my last breath....unless it is on a Visit somewhere...


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## Devonviolet

Well, sounds like you have it made in the shade where you are. So, come on down for a visit, anyway.


----------



## Mike CHS

Since so many Tennesseans went down to help Texas during that conflict long ago and at the Alamo there probably ought to be a way to get us involved in that secession thing.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, I am not trying to "Start" anything, let me be Clear on that, but before any of that can take place ya have to make it thru Friday...it could be a very "News Filled" day I tell ya...there are Rumbles in the distance and it could be the Ground shakin that is on the Way.....might be a good day to be Busy around the house instead of out and about.


----------



## Baymule

We got 3 inches of rain last night. The grand kids and the grand dog are back home, our house isn't destroyed and life is good.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Just found out that 4 of our little "Whirlwinds" are coming to visit the end of May, 4.5mnths-10yrs, so we'll be making Laps too... tho mine will be in a boat around the pond cause PawPaw knows how to "Catch Fish"....and scull a boat with a paddle.......oh, and I make the Best fried fish according to 3 of them anyway....


----------



## Latestarter

Roast chicken was delightful! Shared company and good conversation even more so! Thanks again to @Devonviolet for a great afternoon/evening


----------



## Devonviolet

As always, DH & I enjoyed our visit with Latestarter. He is such a wealth of information, we always learn something new from him. And Violet & Deo have welcomed him as part of the family.


----------



## Latestarter

Been cloudy, gray, damp & raining off and on most of the day. Another set of squalls just passed through. For some reason this afternoon I caught chill and just could NOT warm back up. Turned the heat up to 72 and when that wasn't enough I went and got in the jacuzzi (set to 103) and soaked in there for a while and it wasn't even dinner time yet! Just finished a large mug of hot chocolate and a link & 1/2 of Kielbasa, boiled, with some dipping mustard on the side & I'm finally back to more or less normal. Better go turn the heat back down again.

So looks like tomorrow is going to be mid 50s and scattered showers but Thursday and Friday are looking to be upper 60s low 70s and mostly sunny. I think if it is I might push myself to start working outside. I don't have anything fun to do like lighting fires and such ... I also need to do a little grocery shopping, pay some bills, and start the vehicle registration process.

Deo and Violet are awesome dogs! They really are sweethearts. They do get a bit excited though and takes "a minute" for them to calm down and realize they're both gonna get plenty of scratches.   I don't always mesh/get along well/share my toys/play nice with adults, but little kids and dogs I virtually always get along fine with


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Ya know, that jacuzzi could really come in handy if you ever deal with a hypothermic goat, perfect hot water bath!( Now hopefully you won't deal with a hypothermic goat at all, but you never know. )


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## Latestarter

I can just imagine what people will think if I tell them I share my jacuzzi with goat kids...


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## babsbag

@Goat Whisperer You are a goof...leave it to you to be able to put goats and jacuzzi in the same sentence.


----------



## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> can just imagine what people will think if I tell them I share my jacuzzi with goat kids...



They would think that you are a total nut and that you have been hanging out on BYH too much. And then they would give you a siphon hose and a case of chlorine (or Bromine).


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I have to say, when I moved to east TX, one of the major reasons I did so was because they got rain here and water wasn't an issue. IOW, unlike the high desert of eastern Colorado, I wouldn't have to worry about water rationing/cost/availability here. Man... woke up to the sound of the rain coming down (yeah... at 4:30 am!) and went and checked the rain gauge... 5" (full) and STILL coming down!   The ground is like an overfull sponge to walk on. Too dark to check the "creek" down back right now but I have a nice stream running down the property line over behind the sheds and out into the field by the run-in shelter. I'm going to need to do some serious grading work over there.

Mel didn't want to go out and when he did, he didn't want to go off the back deck but I finally convinced him. I wanted him to pee. He promptly went over to the hole he had dug out to lay down in and dropped his head to drink.  I provide him a large bowl of fresh water on the deck out of the weather and he prefers a mud puddle... jeesh. So while I wanted him to empty water out, he decided he wanted to take water on board. Dried him off and he's back crashed here on the floor (wall to wall carpeting) next to me as I type. Spoiled dog. What can I say. I don't think he's gonna be an LGD. I think he's gonna stay as a companion dog. just a guess... 

So I dug out the truck/harley/trailer titles so I can get them re-titled here in TX then registered/taxed & tagged here. Also rounded up what I'll need to get my new TX license... So while looking for my original, certified, raised seal, (authorized by congress and signed by the then president & approved by God) birth certificate, I also took a look at my passport. I didn't realize but it expired in 2013. So I looked at my visa to visit Russia and realized that was way back in July of 2006. It's been over a decade. Also got a chance to look at my two divorce decrees. Hmmm How time does fly. It's amazing what paperwork is required for various govt functions and what needs to be retained.

So I've been working on a shopping list and planning to head out today and take care of all this "stuff" but with the rain, I may just put it off till tomorrow or more likely Friday as it now appears wet weather is forecast through tomorrow as well as today. I'm going to have to replace some light bulbs in the truck before I can get it inspected. Sure wish I could afford a new(er) truck...


----------



## NH homesteader

Aw Mel likes the comfy life! Kinda figured that might be the case! Lol

So... When are you thinking your livestock might start arriving? Spring/summer? Enjoy the relative calm now!


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## CntryBoy777

My goodness that's alot of water there LS. Though it is really good that ya saw the Flow before ya got things set-up, so ya can make corrections in your thoughts and plans.
Sorry ya have to jump thru so many Hoops to get vehicle and trailers registered, but it is Government and spending 20+ in the Navy surely has proven that Point. 
We are suppose to have rain here overnite and during the day tomorrow, but temps to stay in 50-60's. I think ya would be wise to wait til Friday, it would be Safer for ya. It is the other drivers ya have to Watch and most don't have a clue about weather conditions. Don't wait too long before ya get started on your set-up tho, remember ya got animals coming in just a few Months.


----------



## Baymule

It rained all night here, haven't been to visit the rain gauge on the front gate post yet. We also have water run off issues, the sand soaks up a lot, but then the sand granules hold hands and refuse to accept any more water. I think the sand conspires against us to rearrange the topsoil (or what passes for topsoil around here) and send torrents of water rushing down the slope, wetting everything in it's path. I looked out the kitchen window at daylight and saw all the sheep huddled in the Hawg Hut in the backyard.


----------



## Latestarter

Just came back up from the back pasture. Wanted to check the water level in the creek. It's dropped since the rain stopped about 6am (3.5 hours ago). The creek is a little lower than the last time we had this much rain. Still almost to the top of the bank and flowing right along. I brought the camera and coming back Mel was on his high ground perch watching me so I took some pics of him. The first 2 he's sitting on top of the storm cellar the 3rd he's waiting patiently for me to stop screwing around and let him back inside where it's warm and dry.


----------



## Bruce

Geez @Latestarter now that Mel is a companion dog (I am SO surprised!) You need to find TWO LGDs. @frustratedearthmother better get on the ball with her dogs for your benefit. 

Just read the post you put up while I was typing. Mel is a wuss, a big BEAUTIFUL wuss  Next he'll have you building a covered 'toilet space' for him outside so he doesn't get wet.

I agree with @CntryBoy777, nice to see where the flood waters go so you can plan around them or plan to divert them rather than find out after you spend a fortune in time and money fencing. Best add a tractor to your list (I know, it is already on the list).


----------



## CntryBoy777

I can't believe it! Are my eyes deceiving me?  Yes, Yes it is Mel in Texas!! So glad he finally Made it there and he looks no less for the Wear and Tear. I sure know your Glad too LS!!....just couldn't pass up the opportunity 
Seriously, he does look very good LS and he does look out for ya and is very Happy with your arrangement there.


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## Baymule

Ha! Now you can post one of those pics as your NEW avatar!


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## Bruce

Of course Mel might kick right back into LGD mode once you have livestock for him to guard.


----------



## Latestarter

I'll try to get a better one for an avatar...  Yes Bruce, he might... we'll see, time will tell... like very soon I hope.


----------



## Nifty

@Latestarter, I LOVE those pics of Mel!!!


----------



## Bruce

Start working on that fencing!!!!!!


----------



## dejavoodoo114

Oh the joys of fencing!!! I always tell myself I will get it done while the weather is good... Now I am looking forward to doing it in the rain and freezing weather...  again...


----------



## Mike CHS

We have had over 6" of rain over the last week but it hasn't been freezing.


----------



## Latestarter

Well... I still have a couple of months before the "for sure" goats will be coming... Talking May-June time frame. So yeah, I feel you on the fencing issue but it's not right up my butt yet for pucker factor. I DO need to get started on it though. Aside from those goats, well ya just never know 

I may also have a lead on some piglets. They are supposed to be 3/4 large black, 1/8 old spot, 1/8 red wattle. If that lead pans out, I'm thinking three, probably all gilts if available, then will seek out a good quality heritage breed boar (other than large black) to grow out with them. I'll be in the makin' bacon bizness 

I still want some sheep too, but haven't even started seriously looking for those yet. Maybe I'll get lucky and some will just "fall into my lap" when the time is right. Kinda want to do what @Baymule did and cross dorper and katahdin. Not sure if I want the white dorper or standard. I'm pretty sure either will do since the katahdin can be any color or combination and I'll be crossing them   Anyway, I've located a couple of ranch sources for each, though only one or two are "close by". Seems the majority are down in SW TX.

We were supposed to have some sun today... while messing around here (several hours now ) and doing searches for sheep, we got just a peek at the sun as it was setting. Sky does appear to finally be clearing of cloud cover. I can actually see a rather large swath to the west in the dying sunlight. Maybe tomorrow will be at least 1/2 decent? Looks like no more forecast rain until late Saturday... That would be nice.


----------



## CntryBoy777

The way ya sounding there, ya might wanna give those "Slabs of Bacon" a little "Place" as a "Warm-Up" for the fence. I know ya have seen about Bay's "Hog Hut", might as well knock one Out to get that Blood "Flowing" again...


----------



## Bruce

Remember how we joke with the noobs over on BYC about the proper order of things is to get the chicks THEN start on the coop @Latestarter ?? 

You have "year round fencing" weather there in TX. Best to get started before some animals drop from above when you least expect (and are ready for) it. I can tell you from recent experience that it is less fun when you HAVE to go out in poor weather because you NEED TO GET IT DONE. Plan it out, get the supplies and some ribeyes then invite your local BYHers to a "fence raising".


----------



## Latestarter

I have a nice area that will be shaded during the heat of the summer and it won't do any real damage when they root the heck out of it. When it rains, it will wash their fertilizer down into the pasture. I don't have a water line out there (yet) with a fountain, so it will require either a rather long hose or buckets until that happens. I'm looking at using hog panels, 16' x 34" high but they're $1.00 more than the standard 50" high panels...  I'll throw together a hog hut for them as well. I'll maybe make it a little larger so it can be used as a farrowing crate when the time comes. We'll see... so much to do!


----------



## Bruce

I imagine the hog panels though shorter, cost more because of the smaller vertical spacing. Might be useful to keep piggy snouts and little ones in.


----------



## NH homesteader

I love hog panels. I need about a million more of them. So easy to work with. Granted electric would be easier in summer when we are frequently moving them... But straight electric doesn't do it for us.

Returning to chickens soon too?

Have you surveyed the area to see what's in demand? Are you planning on raising pigs and selling by the lb or breeding and selling piglets? You have been keeping your farm plans too quiet! Lol


----------



## CntryBoy777

On your water thoughts, ya can take a pc of hose and hook it up to a pvc pipe connection put your pipe together on top of the ground to where ya need it to be and attach another hose at the other end. PVC is cheaper than hose, and ya are gonna put it down anyway, and isn't necessary til ya wanna do it. Just have to disconnect during freezing temps.


----------



## babsbag

CntryBoy777 said:


> On your water thoughts, ya can take a pc of hose and hook it up to a pvc pipe connection put your pipe together on top of the ground to where ya need it to be and attach another hose at the other end. PVC is cheaper than hose, and ya are gonna put it down anyway, and isn't necessary til ya wanna do it. Just have to disconnect during freezing temps.



Glad I'm not the only one that knows that PVC doesn't have to go immediately into the ground. I use a lot of PVC above ground and foam pipe wrap in the winter works too. 

Get the fence then the animal??? Is that really the way it is supposed to work? I might have mentioned somewhere that we brought home our first three goats with not very good fencing. While I was gone one weekend and  DH was on goat watch he took a nap. Goats decided it was a perfect time to walk over the fence. We finally found them the next day after putting up 'lost' signs. They were 3 miles away.


----------



## Mike CHS

Doesn't everyone get all the mandatory stuff done before getting livestock?


----------



## Baymule

I thought you were SUPPOSED to get animals FIRST, then worry about fence and shelter later. You mean that I've been doing it all WRONG all my life??


----------



## Baymule

Good idea @Bruce Haha, I know some BYH'ers that will work for steaks!


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## CntryBoy777

I'll bring the Eggs!!...I wanna taste those "Steak Flavored" ones....


----------



## AClark

babsbag said:


> Get the fence then the animal??? Is that really the way it is supposed to work?



Yeah, what's up with that? 
My theory is, if I get the critter first, it motivates me to fix stuff faster because now I'm working with a purpose! I brought the goats home, knowing I had a crappy spot in the fence that needs welding, and when they got out, I went and fixed it


----------



## Latestarter

What a day... Started around 8:30 and just finished. Started out by calling in for a prescrip refill, but I can't get one till March. Since the pills are almost gone and will run out long before then, I re-read the bottle to find out what was going on, only to determine I'm supposed to take 1/2 a pill each day and I've been taking a whole one.  When the doc prescribed them he said "I want you to take one of these each day..." so that's what I did... So my 45 day supply has essentially been used up in about 1/2 that time.   Oldtimers I'm tellin' ya... Really starting to wonder. Just little things here and there. So there were 9 pills left and I split each of them and I'll start taking them again about a week before my next visit for labs, Feb 23rd. Least that way the labs will show with the meds affect rather than without it.  Then I determined that since the sun was actually shining today I would start the odious task of getting legal here in TX.

Truck & utility trailer are now titled and registered in TX as Farm vehicles = $211.00. Titles should arrive by mail in 7-10 days. Oil/filter change, lube (called a "greasin'" here), Transmission fluid flush & filter change, rear differential fluid changed, new wiper blades, truck inspected = $362.00. Luckily the trailer didn't need to be inspected (wiring harness kaput so lights don't work). I did stop at a trailer place to find out where I can take it to have it repaired. I'll get on that in advance of the next time I'll need to use it.

Drivers license is now a TX license= $40.00.  I told the woman (2nd one after coming back home to get additional paperwork  ) that I did 24 years in the Navy, have been all around the world, been stationed and lived in many states and getting this drivers license has been the most difficult trial I've ever had to deal with. But, now that I'm licensed here, I filed for my homestead exemption ($25K off value of property before taxed). While doing so I found out that I'm also entitled to a disabled vet break of an additional $5,000.00 SWEET! I just need to find my disability disclaimer and make them a copy. I'll look for that over the weekend and get it out to them next week.  

My license picture makes me look like I'm completely spaced on meth or something. The lady said she had to re-take my pic as it looked like I was about to blink so she wanted me to hold my eyes open. My eyes are just naturally slits... they are never wide open. I'm not sleeping or anything, it's just when I was young I had very light sensitive eyes so never really opened the lids all the way. Hoo boy... wonder what the cop is gonna say when he sees that... Anyway... it's done. I'll drive on the paper copy until the plastic one comes in the mail.

Appt in Shreveport on Monday with the VA. At least it's an afternoon appt so I don't have to lose sleep over it.

Appt @ the dealership for Tuesday to have the dash cluster replaced; Speedometer & oil pres gauge have been out for years. Was doing speed by Tachometer but 2 warnings in the past 6 months indicates that's no longer the best choice, and it doesn't work all the time anymore. Gas gauge is iffy and I believe it's not accurate anymore either. So rather than mess around, I'm just gonna get it fixed. That will be ~$500.00 best guess. They've already ordered the cluster and they'll just program my miles/engine hours/etc into the rebuilt one then install it and send mine back to be rebuilt for the next person who needs one. Still need to buy/replace the brake light and license plate lights. But I've had enough for one day. There's a poss of rain tomorrow, but if it doesn't, I'll get those bulbs replaced tomorrow.

Mel has been relegated to outside duties all day since I haven't been home (excluding the multiple trips back here for additional/updated paperwork and such). The back door is now propped open and he's crashed on the floor right beside me. So he'll be able to wander in and out as he desires until bed time. Still 73F outside and only supposed to drop to low 50s tonight then back into 70s again tomorrow.

What a day...  I'm beat.


----------



## Bruce

Time for a soak and bed @Latestarter


----------



## CntryBoy777

So sorry ya had to endure such, but just like we told our kids; somethings ya gotta Do, whether ya like it or not. That is, unless ya gonna give your $$$ away to the state of  Texas.  That having to go and come a couple of Times just proves how "Worth While" the business was to take care of, sounds like one of my trips out to tend to Business.  Glad ya are getting that dash fixed, before it Costs ya $$ too. Oh, and ya may want to keep an "Eye Out" over there with that Open door, we have those dang Skeeters out up here already.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> dang Skeeters out up here already


 NO WAY!  That stinks - I hate skeeters!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yep, saw em buzzin around the goats today...all this dang Water and 70deg temps.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh yeah... skeeters... they never really went away here. Sub freezing outside and I'd look up and find one flying inside. Have no idea where they are coming from.


----------



## CntryBoy777

The ditch....duh!


----------



## NH homesteader

So having the truck registered as a farm vehicle, are there restrictions on what you can do with your truck? We have farm plates and ag plates, each with their own set of restrictions.


----------



## Baymule

Glad you got all that done, it is behind you now. Yesterday was beautiful after all the gloomy, rainy days we've been having.......so what do I wake up to today? FOG! GLOOM! and bone chilling COLD! Blech....


----------



## farmerjan

Don't feel bad, we are having all that gloomy weather too.  have had  10 days of cloudy, chilly, damp, showers, sprinkles, temps in the mid 30's, then up to nearly 60 days.  2 days of actual sun then right back to cloudy rainy drizzly, damp with more serious rain forecast for this eve and 2-4 inches Sunday through maybe Tues.  Then turning colder next weekend. 
This is hard on the animals, and there are alot of dairy farmers with pnuemonia in their calves from the swing in temps. 
We used to get more snow, with temps in the 20's at night maybe up to the 40's days but now it is more rain.  Sometimes I wish for the snow and harder ground and not so much mud.  Easier on us and the animals.  We don't start our spring calving until the beginning of March but our "winters"  seem to come later and then have a couple days of spring and then right into summer the past several years.
And no, I don't believe in the global warming stuff caused by man....What caused the swing from dinosaurs to the ice age  and back ?????  No internal combustion engines around then that I've heard about....


----------



## greybeard

> What caused the swing from dinosaurs to the ice age and back ?????


----------



## Latestarter

farmerjan said:


> And no, I don't believe in the global warming stuff caused by man....What caused the swing from dinosaurs to the ice age and back ????? No internal combustion engines around then that I've heard about....



How dare you say anything counter to the liberal party line! Oh, wait... that party changed yesterday, didn't it...  I believe in climate change... that's been happening forever over time. Are we helping a little? maybe, but we're not solely responsible. Hell, one large volcano going off puts out more greenhouse gases than the world population in a year. 

So the deal with the farm plates on the truck NHH is that the truck must be used at least 80% for farm related endeavors. They won't give you those plates if you use the vehicle to drive back & forth to work, etc. Since I'm retired, just about everything I do has something to do with this place one way or another.

I know Bay, right? one day of sun and now we're right back under the gray and damp again. But there's a bright side. at least you're not over in GA right now: http://radar.weather.gov/ridge/Conus/index_loop.php   Looks like we'll be getting more rain off and on for a while again.

Sorry the weather is so hard on your animals (and others up there) Jan. I hope you're not dealing with too much sickness with them. I hope you don't lose any!

You know greybeard, I believe you might have something there... terra-forming us so they can move in and take over. Love that guy's hair  Gotta hand it to him to style it to look like that intentionally. I used to have that thick... not so much anymore.

So when I'm done here I'm off to the auto parts store to get replacement light bulbs for the truck, then swing by the trailer repair place to see if I can get the repairs and mods done there that I want done.


----------



## NH homesteader

It's funny how when it's warmer than normal it's global warming but when it's colder than normal all of the sudden it's climate change...


----------



## Bruce

It became "climate change" when the people took "global warming" literally and expecting it meant everyone would see warmer weather all the time. In fact, warming 'here' causes meteorological changes 'there'.


----------



## NH homesteader

I'm going to and talk about goats now.

Latestarter what breeds are you getting?


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I visited @animalmom a while back and hope to be getting a goat or two from her, but she won't let them go until after they're weaned and she has had her yearly "kid fix" so there we're talking maybe late May/early June. She has Nigies. I've also talked with @goatgurl up in Arkansas and hope to be getting a couple/few Lamanchas from her. I wasn't going to say anything about it, but I'm heading up there Wednesday to meet her and work out logistics.   I'm about useless at keeping secrets... wonder how I managed to get a TS clearance in the Navy 

She (GG) had promised/saved 2 specific does to/for @Devonviolet over a year ago, which had been posted here at the time. For many reasons, that never happened at the time but knowing about it, I asked GG if the two does were still there and still reserved for DV, and she said yes. So, long story short, DV is going with me Wednesday to visit GG and start the process to bring home her milking Lamancha does   I hope to set the ground work to bring mine home as well. I don't know if I'll be doing it sooner and bring home bred does or wait and bring them home after kidding. That's the main reason for the trip is to work out the details. GG already has a few kids reserved to others, so can't let all her bred does go.


----------



## Latestarter

As an aside and on to a totally different subject, look what I found: http://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/5958117568.html


----------



## CntryBoy777

Love the Masks and markings, some really nice looking pups.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Very nice @Latestarter!  You going to get a couple?  Or you could get a truck load and send a few of them to @Southern by choice


----------



## Bruce

Seriously cheap at $250! Worth a drive to see what the working farm actually looks like and finding out what all the pups have had in the way of shots, etc.


----------



## Latestarter

I think I may have mentioned that I have to go to Shreveport on Monday for a VA appt... coincidence? serendipity? auspicious fate? 

So I went to autozone and all the bulbs are now working. Tuesday the dash cluster will be working again (I hope)... the truck might be 100% legal again...

While I was out I decided to have a late lunch so stopped at Applebees and had a French onion soup, an order of double crunch hot buffalo style bone in wings w/ranch and a screwdriver (drink ). Felt a little low on vitamin C.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Let's see, 24yrs in Navy....TS clearance....the military "Teaches" stratagies, planning, and factoring...Farming takes most of that and reinforces the "Time Management" and there is the "Make every Trip Count" mentality....I vote for just plain ole "Dumb Luck"....

With the weather ya been having boosting the Vit C isn't a bad idea....and there is the added Benefit of thinner blood too, that lowers the old BP.


----------



## Southern by choice

The first pic is not a FB pyr. Just keep that in mind. You want to know what the cross is.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Southern by choice said:


> The first pic is not a FB pyr. Just keep that in mind. You want to know what the cross is.


I was thinking the same thing…

I also hear there is a lot of inbreeding out that way too. If they are "purebred", look st the pedigree.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

x3....was wondering too!


----------



## Devonviolet

X4. I was also wondering what it is crossed with.


----------



## Baymule

X-ed with a Irish Wolfhound, by the size of it.  Still nice looking dogs. That is awesome that you and DV at going to look/get goats! I know she has been wanting her goats for quite some time. Can't wait to see pics!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

That actually went through my mind, lol!  Cute pups though...


----------



## Latestarter

The pups looked awesome to me for build and size (estimate) and I love the badger markings/colors. I haven't called them because I won't get another dog until I actually have goats/sheep for it to watch. The next LGD I get will go from the seller directly in with the animals it will be watching. I don't want/need another house dog until after Mel is out there doing LGD work full time. Yes, I could see the 1st pic didn't look pure, and since it's been mentioned it does look a little wolfhoundish... Big dog.


----------



## babsbag

The first thing I told my DH was that I didn't like the shape of the head.  Wolfhound looks about right.


----------



## Latestarter

Went to bed early last night ~midnight. Was bored, didn't feel like watching TV or playing on the computer. Result? wide awake at 4am   So I imagine come this afternoon I'll be in doze mode right when I really want to be awake. NFL Conference Championships are today!   I really wish my team's game was televised first so I'd know if I had a vested interested in the results of the other... Sadly, that's not the way it's scheduled. So I guess I'll see who my team will have to play in the Superbowl then hope they prevail in their game to make it there. I'm actually looking forward to both these games as the teams in both are very evenly matched and should provide awesome entertainment. I think the first game is going to be a very high scoring game between the Atlanta Falcons and Green Bay Packers, and I believe the second game is going to be a real slug fest between the Patriots and Steelers.

I hope the Pats win and I hope they face Atlanta in the Superbowl (because I believe they'd have more trouble with the Packers). If the Steelers beat my Pats, it won't matter to me who they'll play in the Superbowl, but for the best game I hope they face Green Bay.

Anyone here have any favorites/wishes/predictions? I think I'm gonna do a Domino's pizza carry out for late lunch/dinner


----------



## NH homesteader

My family, obviously, are rabid Patriots fans. My grandfather is married to a Steelers fan. Their house will be a fun place to be today! 

My prediction is always for the Pats to win.... Mostly because I want them to lol. I don't pay much attention to other teams.


----------



## Baymule

Not so crazy about football, but I love the Superbowl--mostly for the commercials. LOL


----------



## Hens and Roos

We will be watching the games- we are Packer fans


----------



## babsbag

Baymule said:


> Not so crazy about football, but I love the Superbowl--mostly for the commercials. LOL



I just watch them on YouTube, saves me from having to waste time watching all the other crazy stuff in between what really matters.


----------



## greybeard

After watching the GB/Dallas game, I believe the Packers will go to and win the SB.


----------



## greybeard

greybeard said:


> After watching the GB/Dallas game, I believe the Packers will go to and win the SB.


guullpp...or not.
Atl leads 24-0 at the half


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, that bird looks more like Crow than a falcon, anyway...just sayin


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm watching that game and have decided GB must have left some players at home.


----------



## norseofcourse

My team didn't make the playoffs (Cleveland, sigh....).  But as a loyal Browns fan, my next favorite team is anyone playing against Pittsburgh - so I'm in for New England, and Atlanta if necessary


----------



## Hens and Roos

Well GB is out....but we are watching the Steelers/New England game


----------



## NH homesteader

I don't have cable tv so I'm obsessively googling the score of the Pats game! Lol


----------



## dejavoodoo114

First DH's team, the Raiders lost their QB and lost their butts. Then Seattle got knocked out (being from OR/WA we always support Seattle! And the fact that DH and I love different teams, we buy the boys Seattle gear and keep the peace!) Then last week watching the Cowboys loose... The way they lost... I am studying (and perusing here...) not watching the games. I will watch the SB.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

dejavoodoo114 said:


> First DH's


Is there more than one DH?  No judgement   First time readng it through, I thought will there be a second DH mentioned?


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> I'm watching that game and have decided GB must have left some players at home.



Yeah--a LOT, like their whole defense and entire offensive line.
That beatdown was way worse than even what the score indicated.

Over the years, I'v seen excuse after excuse when the Packers lose--gonna be hard for them to find an excuse for this debacle.


----------



## Bruce

HomeOnTheRange said:


> Is there more than one DH?  No judgement   First time readng it through, I thought will there be a second DH mentioned?




What is football?


----------



## dejavoodoo114

@HomeOnTheRange, 

NO! There is only one! That should have read "First, DH's team..." Note the comma that was previously missing! 
.... Oops! He ought to get a kick out of this one though.

ETA: I guess that is what happens after you spend 6+ hours typing notes in an outline format without punctuation...


----------



## Pastor Dave

I live abt 20 mins SW of Indianapolis.
I am a fan, but our season was awful.
That said, the Pats are our arch rival.
One of my deacons is a big Steelers fan, and I rub him for it. In this case, GO STEELERS!


----------



## NH homesteader

Ooh go Pats! 33-9 is it?


----------



## Mike CHS

I haven't figured out who to root for since Peyton retired. I originally liked him because of his dad so I don't have a record of winners.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I gave up Sports back in '09 with the 2nd attack...I used to get into it too much and raise the BP. Only sports now is a few Nascar races each yr.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I am happy  My Pats are going to another Superbowl in 2 weeks, and they'll be playing the Atlanta Falcons. It should be a very good game, but I believe my Patriots are going to win their 5th ring, and in doing so there should be no further argument about Tom Brady being the GOAT. 

I want to see the look of disdain and shame in the commissioner's eyes when he has to hand Tom, Coach Belichick, & Robert Kraft the Lombardi trophy after the BS he and the other owners put them and the Patriots franchise through these past 2 years. I wonder what they'll dream up next to try and tarnish this organization? OK, nuff spew... WOO HOO WE WON!


----------



## NH homesteader

Everyone loves to hate New England... Tom Brady annoys me but there's no denying that man is ridiculously talented. Love Belichick though. Woot Pats!!!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Well, I am happy  My Pats are going to another Superbowl in 2 weeks, and they'll be playing the Atlanta Falcons. It should be a very good game, but I believe my Patriots are going to win their 5th ring, and in doing so there should be no further argument about Tom Brady being the GOAT.
> 
> I want to see the look of disdain and shame in the commissioner's eyes when he has to hand Tom, Coach Belichick, & Robert Kraft the Lombardi trophy after the BS he and the other owners put them and the Patriots franchise through these past 2 years. I wonder what they'll dream up next to try and tarnish this organization? OK, nuff spew... WOO HOO WE WON!



Odd, I stayed up late but didn't see Antonio Brown streaming anything live from the postgame locker room..I wonder how Tomlin feels knowing the ******* whupped him like a govt mule?
It's a real shame the SB isn't going to be played in Foxborough, Mass. this year. Goodell would have to be escorted in and out under armed guards in a Humvee.

I think the Pats will win but NE will have their hands full with Atlanta.


----------



## Latestarter

As I said, it should be a very good game. I look forward to watching it and the better team will win. I believe the Pats are the better team, but only by one mistake. The one who makes the one mistake will lose. Yeah, I think Brown earned his 6 figure paycheck from face chat  or whomever it is & the fine for what he did won't even put a dent in it but not a good idea to pull the tiger's tail twice so soon/close together.

You know, I don't think anyone up in NE would try to physically harm the pompous a$$, but they sure would share with him their thoughts about him. He keeps digging the hole he's made for himself deeper over time. The thing is, he doesn't do anything without the express permission of the other owners. You know, the ones who can't field a winning team and are tired of always losing and watching NE always winning. He takes the heat so they can stay in the background. That's why they pay him over 30 million a year... to "protect the badge" that is the NFL...


----------



## AClark

Late, until you get that speedo fixed, if you have a smart phone you can download a GPS speedometer app. It's very close to dead on, within 1-2 MPH. It's what I use on my 1984 since my speedo doesn't work. I know why mine doesn't, we changed out the transmission and the old cable didn't screw right in so we left it, and it's basically a farm truck anyway. It's too old to have a tachometer so guessing was always "am I passing everyone?" but I'm driving that old beater now since my Ford is down. I can't complain, 33 years old and starts up every time, runs fine, and the heater works.

TX sure gets you on the registration for trailers. Ours was $100, I just paid it in November, and sold the trailer a couple of days ago. Told them they might as well drive on my old plates (it's my neighbor) as I had paid them. Oklahoma is easier to deal with and cheap, our stock trailer and the new flatbed we bought (used the money from my TX car hauler to buy a new 24 ft gooseneck car hauler) cost a whopping $24 to register both of them. I don't actually have to register if I had OK plates, but I don't, so figured to be on the safe side, I'd pay the cheap registration fee and put a plate on it. 

DH and I can sympathize with you for DMV. It took us both 4 trips to DMV in AZ to get our licenses fixed. All I had to do on mine was change my name, and he just needed a new one since he'd been driving on an extension since 1998. I can definitely see why you'd want to get legal in TX though, they don't play around at all. Leniency is not the state motto.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> . You know, the ones who can't field a winning team and are tired of always losing and watching NE always winning.


Well, I live near Houston... you know..Houston Texans, so i don't have to worry about the 'winning' thing.  I used to post a "Why my team sucks" type blurb, but it got too long each year so I quit doing it.


----------



## Baymule




----------



## Latestarter

On my way back from Shreveport I got a call from the dealership that the dash cluster was there and if I wanted to bring the truck in they'd get it fixed up today, so it's now done and I have working gauges again. It's actually quite enjoyable being able to look down and see what's going on rather than guessing 

Tomorrow I'm going to build a "cage" for the bed of the truck to carry livestock back there. I guess I'll be transporting some on Wednesday.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like a productive day, did ya find anymore out about the pups?


----------



## Latestarter

AClark said:


> Late, until you get that speedo fixed


 <sigh> I'm gettin' old... I read that like 5 times trying to figure out how you knew I wore a speedo... And what the heck was wrong with it that needed fixin'   Seriously, I don't wear them, X-military, so commando... TMI? Anyway, moot point, my gauges are all working again and it actually kinda makes it feel like a new truck  Been without them for so long, and now everything works.   I haven't washed it aside from driving in rain for several years and it's probably been 7-8 years since it's last wax job.    The new wipers make a world of difference to visibility also... Shoulda changed them probably 20,000 miles ago.   I know... a guy should take better care of his tools...

I didn't call on the pups Countryboy... I'm not ready for another until AFTER I get my livestock. There's no way I want to re-train Mel and have to deal with him  and a puppy training each other at the same time. Once I have him all settled in and working, THEN I'll start actively looking for a work mate for him. There are too many coyotes around here for him to be by himself.



AClark said:


> I can definitely see why you'd want to get legal in TX though, they don't play around at all. Leniency is not the state motto.


 Actually, I've been pulled over twice in the past 6 months and both troopers only gave me a warning, which I'm VERY thankful for! I really don't like "breaking the law" and try to stay legal. Even try to obey the laws that are just plain stupid/idiotic/wrong.  

So, I got up ~5am this morning (went to bed ~11)... sat in the recliner listening to the talking heads on the NFL channel and dozing until the sun came up and it warmed up some. Then I headed out to Lowes, I guess around 9ish and picked up some 2x4 lumber, deck screws with star heads, hinges and a hasp, then went to TSC and got a 36" x 50' roll of 2"x4" welded wire fencing and just finished building a livestock transport cage in the bed of the truck. My back and arthritis is killing me. Only had to make 2 additional trips back to Home Depot (closer than Lowes) one as I ran out of poultry staples, and the other cause I needed 1 more 2x4.  I ended up finishing it up with my head lamp so I could see what I was doing. Only ended up with one pinched palm from the tin snips cutting the fencing, and one blood blister from pounding my thumb next to the nail while holding those danged small poultry staples. I did put a 2x4 dent in my forehead when the door fell into me when I wasn't paying attention, but that's kinda like hitting a rock with a pillow... Didn't break the skin, so no blood, doesn't count as an injury. So 2 injuries (yes, they both bled) over some 14 hours... I can live with that!

Sorry, no pictures as it's too dark outside but I'll take a couple tomorrow and post them when I get back from the road trip to AR & @goatgurl 

Next order of business is a shower and then a soak in the jacuzzi then some dedicated recliner time. Already took a muscle relaxer (actually, 2 and 1 Excedrin) for the back. That should all kick in about an hour from now. Hope everyone else had a fun and productive Tuesday and good luck if you're playing the lottery tonight.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Hope ya have Safe travel tomorrow! 
Here ya on the laxers too, may have to dip into my Stash too. After those post holes. 
You'll feel better with some Animals around and certainly can't wait too see them...


----------



## NH homesteader

Woohoo! Your first farm build is done!


----------



## Bruce

The first step is the hardest one right?


----------



## NH homesteader

I don't think that's true with the amount of fencing LS has ahead of him...


I mean... Yes the worst is over!


----------



## Mike CHS

I think we are all looking forward to following this one.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

NH homesteader said:


> I don't think that's true with the amount of fencing LS has ahead of him...
> 
> 
> I mean... Yes the worst is over!


OMGosh you are terrible!
Ahh, the joys of fencing …


----------



## Latestarter

Well... disappointed to learn the trip to AR is off for tomorrow.  I got a call from @Devonviolet that she spoke with GG earlier and her sister is in the ICU for something. Not sure what, but the trip is off for tomorrow.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Understandably so, too. Sorry to hear about GG's sister and hope all turns out okay.


----------



## Baymule

Hope GG's sister is ok and the trip gets rescheduled soon!

You will have to apply your skills to a fence, wire, posts, nails, staples, T-post clips, more wire, T-posts, H braces......


----------



## babsbag

Are you sure that you want to build a pen for the back of a truck out of welded wire?  I have seen some goats ram their holding pen pretty good, and I would hate to see that happen on the road and the wire give way.


----------



## Bruce

Wow, ICU doesn't sounds good.  to @goatgurl


----------



## Latestarter

@babsbag Well, since the pen is a temporary thing and any animal will only be in there for a couple of hours, I think it will be OK. There isn't going to be enough room in there for them to get a running start or to raise up, so even if they do butt it a little, they aren't going to have the leverage to do any serious damage. The other option was to drop the rear seats and carry them inside the truck, but if they start butting in there, that would be a much larger problem. I don't have an actual livestock trailer yet and my utility trailer still needs to be repaired and is open on the top, so they could try to jump out. I will need to get an actual livestock trailer down the road.

When arthritis flares up, why does it always seem to happen in the least favorable place(s)? My right hand and wrist are so sore right now it hurts to lift a mug of tea. I don't think I could grip a hammer right now and if I swung it, it might just leave my hand and take flight... I can just barely touch my little finger tip with my thumb on that hand.

And on a completely different subject, why didn't any of you Texas folks warn me they there are bugs down here? year round! While I was building out the truck pen yesterday I got inundated with these really tiny no-see-ums... they are everywhere! I'm sitting here eating some cocktail shrimp with cocktail sauce and one just land on the white paper plate where I can see it. Wonder how many I breathed in yesterday, or ate.  A little extra protein I guess. They're so small they can fit right through a regular window screen.

So I think I'll take a run over and buy some milk and yogurt for MEl. Then I think I'll go sit in my recliner with an ice pack on my hand and wrist.


----------



## Devonviolet

I was just going to ask for pics of the livestock transport cage. And there they are!


It looks great!  

I'm so bummed that we couldn't go to Arkansas today. But, I totally understand @goatgurl's need to spend time with her sister. My prayers are with them!  

Hopefully we can reschedule for next week.


----------



## NH homesteader

Wow fancy critter mover! We transport our goats in dog crates. It works for now... We will see when the minis are full grown if it still works! But we would certainly have to call in a favor if we had to move a pig!


----------



## Southern by choice

What are you going to cover it with?
Great job BTW!  
I really want a goat caddy- keeps them more confined and safer for travel but they are pricey!


----------



## NH homesteader

SBC that is awesome. I'm going to ask my husband if he can build one. He's a good welder and always looking for a project!


----------



## Southern by choice

NH homesteader said:


> SBC that is awesome. I'm going to ask my husband if he can build one. He's a good welder and always looking for a project!


We have borrowed our neighbors for when we had to transport Kikos.
Once we transported 3 does- all mature and they fit fine. One other time we transported a buck he was HUGE with big ole horns... no pproblem. What I love about it is it can fit in our 15 passenger van so the goats don't get sick especially on long hauls and no exhaust issues either!

I want one of these for when we transport to shows... or two


----------



## CntryBoy777

Looks like a Fine job to me...
Sorry bout your hand and wrist...that is what Joyce deals with, with both hands and wrists now. Best I have found for arthritis pain is Green BCs...sone days I take up to 6 of them, but my theory is if ya can stay on Top of the pain it takes less to ease it, but if ya get Below it, then it takes much More to get it beneath ya....minimum is 3 a day.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Looks good, a few tips though-
Make sure the top and sides are covered with either some sort of plywood (etc) or use a HEAVY DUTY tarp. They are exposed to a lot of wind and it is LOUD in the back of the truck. I see more cases of shipping fever and other illnesses brought on by the move happen when goats are transported in a wire type cage in the back of a truck. It is, IMO the most stressful way to move them. When it's more enclosed they seem to handle it best. The less they are exposed to (especially when on large hwys) the better.

Also, consider adding a padlock to the cage. 
(Unless the tailgate locks)

If it's a long drive and you need to stop to "use it" that is all the time it takes for someone to steal your animals. People are crazy- it does happen.

Spell check is going crazy today, bear with me


----------



## Southern by choice

I agree @CntryBoy777  LS did a great job! I don't have a truck so ....


----------



## Hens and Roos

we use metal dog crates, we have ones big enough to fit our Lamancha doe in.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@goatgurl sorry to hear this


----------



## CntryBoy777

SBC we don't either...we have to haul them in the mini van standing in a kiddie pool... I'd have to rent a truck to pickup a Load like that Kiko...


----------



## NH homesteader

We put a dog crate in the back of the Jeep. We used to jam it in the back of my car... We only have one goat I would prefer to never put inside a vehicle with me again, lol


----------



## Latestarter

@Southern by choice When I saw this picture the first thing I noticed was the 5th wheel hitch (<---edit to correct to goose neck ball hitch. Thanks Babs) right in the middle of the bed. I don't think I'd want to put animals in there for any trip with that there for fear of them getting injured by it. I did consider getting one of the metal drop in cages like you find advertised on Craigs List and such, but the cost is pretty danged steep for something that will get used so infrequently. I'm sure that's quite a bit lighter than the one I built weight wise. I haven't entirely worked out how I'm going to get it out and back in the bed by myself yet. I'm sure I'll come up with something.







@Goat Whisperer If I think I'll need to stop anywhere for any period of time, I'll absolutely put a padlock on the door. My cage unit can't slide in and out as it's built full width over the wheel wells, so I don't have to worry about that. It has to be lifted in and out. I'm thinking a rope through a pulley attached to a nice big tree limb


----------



## babsbag

OK @Latestarter, that is not a 5th wheel hitch, it is a ball for a Gooseneck.  I was looking at the picture for the longest time trying to find a fifth wheel hitch, thought I was losing my mind for a minute as we HAVE a  fifth wheel hitch.

I have brought goats home in the back of a truck in a dog crate, inside the car in dog crate, inside a truck in a dog crate, in the back of a truck with a camper shell on, and in a horse trailer.  It all depends on the number and size of goats and the weather and distance of travel.  I want one of these to make into a carrier, I have seen them used and they work great. Remove the tank of course.  You can get them with different sized squares so I would need to find a small one if transporting kids.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry... mistaken nomenclature... I knew what I meant


----------



## Pastor Dave

I don't have a pic, but my neighbor/friend put a 6' tall chain link dog run in his truck bed for hauling goats. I thought it was a batting cage first time I saw it. I did see a nice pull behind trailer for camping with a motorcycle that someone converted to a goat hauler. If I ever got goats, would either look to something like that or the 6' dig kennel.

I have a '04 Silverado ext. cab with a 2"×10" board up front of bed that you can throw some things back there without sliding all around toward tail gate. My carrying cages drop in fine and wind blocked by cab. I have a double pen that divides into (2) 12" holes or a big 12"×24" hole. Have packed it with straw and covered with tarp to keep cold out before for the buns.

I want to attach some mesh and just use the whole space ahead of the 2"×10" for a pen, and put in dividers if needed.


----------



## Devonviolet

Southern by choice said:


> I want one of these for when we transport to shows... or two



So, SBC. Do you use plywood for a ramp? 

It looks like there is some kind of ramp in the middle photo.  

Gorgeous buck, btw. Now I want Kiko's!!!  Actually, our local Vet raises Spanish Goats, so I was thinking of buying a couple of his. 

We have transported ND goats & 100 lb dogs in the back of our truck (with a topper). It is definitely a challenge to get them up on the tailgate when they don't want to go there!


----------



## Mike CHS

We still have our stock trailer but if it ever gets used again after the tornado totaled it, it will be for a portable chicken coop.  If we can straighten the frame enough to make it moveable.


----------



## Southern by choice

I wish I had a truck! 
I guess a pulley system would be best especially since you're on your own.
Yeah, I think the pic was for show from a site that sells them. Can't imagine having a hitch in the middle! 

@Devonviolet  I love the Spanish goats, they are very much like kikos. Speaking of- I got some pics today of the Kikos! How many goats is LS picking up for you?

LS- how many goats are you getting? 
Any pics?


----------



## Southern by choice

oop- @Devonviolet  we did for that boy to get him in- coming out he just jumped. All our dairy does just hop up or walk in the side door. LOL They are babies that think they are dogs.


----------



## CntryBoy777

@Mike CHS just put a "Ford Rearend" under it...they track sideways anyway.........


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> [USER=9889]@Goat Whisperer If I think I'll need to stop anywhere for any period of time, I'll absolutely put a padlock on the door. My cage unit can't slide in and out as it's built full width over the wheel wells, so I don't have to worry about that. It has to be lifted in and out. I'm thinking a rope through a pulley attached to a nice big tree limb [/USER]



Nah, just use the FEL on the tractor you are going to get 

Looks like you did a nice job, sorry you are paying for it.


----------



## Baymule

@Latestarter, DH has arthritis along with his other aches and pains. I have a knee that is shaping up as a prime candidate for knee replacement surgery someday. We use Arnicare as a topical rub and it also comes in pills. it is almost instant pain relief. Awesome stuff. When he had knee replacement surgery, I rubbed Arnicare on either side of the incision and it really helped him. You can get it at Walmart, Walgreens, Target....

http://www.arnicare.com/

I also use Tumeric powder mixed with coconut oil to make a paste. I take a teaspspoon twice a day. It is yukky tasting, so I chase it with some milk or something. It is anti-inflammatory and will help with the pain.


----------



## NH homesteader

Bay you should really ask Arnicare for some commission checks! You've helped a lot of people in pain find it! Speaking of which... Maybe I'll pass it along to my stepdad for his bum knee...


----------



## Devonviolet

Southern by choice said:


> How many goats is LS picking up for you?


I'm actually going with Latestarter.  I'm picking up two bred LaMancha does. Falina (2 yo - FF, due around March 23 or 23) and Ruby (4 yo - due April 12 or 13).


----------



## farmerjan

To make a fairly inexpensive carry pen for the back of a truck get 2 cattle panels.  cut 1 in half .  Bend one @ 4 ft, on each end, so it is 4 ft x 8 ft  x 4ft The other cut panel, is 8 ft for a side and 8 ft for the top.  We use short pieces of chain to chain the ends top and bottom and the piece down on the top, or in the case of a baby calf just use baling twine to tie.  Plastic is better than the sisal twine as they are less likely to want to chew on it.  Then you can just bend the "back 4 ft piece out enough to put the animal in.  Or cut it to make a fully removeable panel.  Since I usually just pick up the calves and put them on the back of the truck it's no big deal.
Tie it down on the sides to the stake pockets on the truck and cover it if need be. We seldom transport more than a calf or two very far  in it; any longer distance trailering is always done in the 20ft  or the 24 ft. stock trailer that we haul all the cattle in.  But goats are alot smaller than even a 2-3 month old calf.


----------



## Latestarter

Originally, I was making the trip up there to discuss with GG what she was willing to sell and see her animals. I wasn't actually planning on picking any up on this visit but setting up for what I would buy and when they'd be available. From speaking with her on the phone, it was looking like some time after March or into April that I'd be getting the animals. She has bred does and reserved customers so needs to have some kids to provide.

Then I got involved with DV and the goats she had reserved and before you know it, I'd invited DV to come along on the ride. DV is (was) going up there with me I thought just to meet GG and see the goats that were reserved for her. Before it was all said and done, it turned out DV would be picking up her goats and bringing them back. She doesn't have a trailer to carry the animals in, and my utility trailer needs repair before it can travel. I'd planned on building a truck bed cage anyway, so figured why not now?

Bay, I bought a tube of the arnicare gel when you first mentioned it for some aches I had, and sorry... it didn't help  

Geeze Bruce... don't I WISH I had that FEL and tractor!! That would make putting it in and taking it out pretty easy. Might also motivate me to start digging (with the PTO mounted auger) all those post holes NHH was reminding me about 

Mike, I remember you talking about the tornado and thought you'd said the insurance was going to cover everything? I guess you're just going to buy a new stock trailer to replace the damaged one?


----------



## Mike CHS

Our insurance did good by us but we will wait to get another stock trailer until we run across a reasonable buy.  The CO-OP has trailers to rent so we may do that for the few times we need one.  We need to pick up a riding mower first to supplement our hay needs so that is a first priority.


----------



## AClark

Late, I died at the speedo comment. Also, maybe TMI, but who doesn't go commando after military time? Underwear, why? At least you didn't stick with the military issue "tighty whiteys", those things are truly horrific.


----------



## greybeard

Govt issue was green....... and boxers back in my Marine Corps.


----------



## Bruce

Step one @Latestarter - get the tractor!!!

If it is in your budget, do it first. Everything you do before you have the tractor that can be done WAY easier once you have it delays the rest of the projects. Ask me how I know   And you have a LOT of projects! 

Of course I still don't have a tractor either. Something is always coming along to raid the pot of gold, not in the budget.


----------



## AClark

@greybeard - they're "sand" colored now, and tighty whitey fit...DH's are still in the original issued packaging. They go right along with BCG's, because any woman who looked at those ugly undies would stop what she was doing and rethink her decision.  I have no idea what the Marines issue, but Army doesn't get boxers, at least those are tolerable.


----------



## Mike CHS

Bruce hit it with the tractor comment.  Our first 3 months had us moving literally tons of stone slab so we bit the bullet and got our little Kubota.  We don't have a lot of implements but moving dirt and digging holes is almost enjoyable once we got out of the ledge rock areas.


----------



## CntryBoy777

If I had a decent vehicle @Mike CHS I would gladly pick-up 3-4 pallets of your rock to use Here...


----------



## Mike CHS

We would have to figure out a way to pick them up.  My tractor can push them down the hill but they are as big as and in many cases bigger than the tractors foot print.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I guess the soon to be newest arrival to the East Texas contingent got a might delayed... So  looks like I won't be helping unload a moving truck tomorrow after all. Had planned a nice long trip for every other day this week and only got to make one of them... Maybe tomorrow I'll take a run over to the trailer repair place and see what I can get done about getting that back legal and on the road. 

Saw a couple of tractor possibilities as well cruising Craigs list last night. Also passed a small one with bucket and backhoe on the road side with a for sale sign... Might go take a look at that one as well. I think it's too small to move round bales though, and if so, won't cut it for what I need. I think I'll go visit the credit union and start a loan application so when that perfect farm beast becomes available I'll be ready to pounce.

http://texoma.craigslist.org/grq/5973771336.html

http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/grd/5962092633.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/grd/5962092633.html
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/grq/5968133638.html  <---this is the dealer I talked with and was looking at the non-cab model with a similar deal in the 26K range. It had an auger and tiller in place of the pallet forks and hay spear, oh, and a 20 foot dual axle trailer to carry it all on.


----------



## Mike CHS

LS for what it's worth if you are going to finance a tractor Kubota usually has zero interest on their packages.  When we bought we were going to pay cash but found out we couldn't get anyone to insure us since we weren't living on the farm. We found out that if you finance with Kubota they will fully insure both on and off farm which nobody else here does.


----------



## Baymule

I'll throw in my vote for the tractor. Bite the bullet and go buy one. I like the third one you listed. What are you waiting on? A speedo?


----------



## Bruce

Those first two illustrate why the one you saw on the side of the road isn't the best choice. 20 hours and 75 hours and selling because they need a bigger tractor. Guess they didn't figure that out until they got it home.


----------



## Latestarter

Thing is for a similar weight tractor with similar capabilities I'd have to go to a 55HP or larger Kubota and they are much more expensive from what I've compared. What kind of insurance are you referring to? Like vehicle comprehensive and liability?


----------



## babsbag

My John Deere was bought with 0% for 5 years and insured too. Couldn't beat the financing deal so grabbed a new one. I chose green over orange only because at that time Kubota wasn't offering 0%; I think it was 2%.


----------



## babsbag

Not sure about liability but it covers theft and damage, like rolling it and it losing it in a flood or fire.


----------



## Latestarter

People steal tractors? Hmmm some world we farmers live in.


----------



## NH homesteader

People steal everything.


----------



## babsbag

Oh yes, they will take the tractor and they know how to hot wire them too, no keys required. My girlfriend also had her flatbed trailer taken from their front yard. It was never found.


----------



## Mike CHS

The dealer insurance (all of them from our research) literally covers everything.  Ours is paid off now but we don't take ours off the farm and nobody else uses it.


----------



## Bruce

Unless you live near @babsbag !!!!


----------



## greybeard

I move 1000lb round bales every day with a Ford 3600 (35hp) or a Leyland 245 (45hp). Both are 2wd. The Ford has all it wants with a bale but the Leyland handles them easily. I handle hay with either a 3pt fork or 3pt spear.
FEL are handy as heck, but you need a counterweight on the 3pt on smaller ones if your going to have 1000 lbs on the bucket--even with 4wd. The bale takes too much weight off the rear wheels. Neighbor moves hay with a Ford 4000 with fel and keeps a 6' bush hog on the back to counteract the weight on the front.

I do have a Case450  backhoe/loader combination with a set of forks for the bucket, but very very seldom use it for moving hay. It's too dang heavy and leaves ruts in winter ground.

Stolen tractors. Keep insurance on your equipment, same as you would on a vehicle. All distributors keep a database nowadays, with model and serial # of stolen tractors. Any tractor that comes in for service gets run thru the database to see if it is stolen. We found 3 tractors and a baler that had been stolen when I worked as a mechanic at the local Kubota dealer. None of the customers were the thieves--they had bought the tractors 'used' thru local ads or word of mouth. Be careful buying a used one.


----------



## greybeard

LS--lift capacity of the loader on that Branson 4520 in Lake Texoma with BL25R loader is 2100lbs.
3pt lift capacity is stated at 3600lbs.
http://www.bransontractor.com/Series/20-Series/Tractor/4520R.aspx
http://www.bransontractor.com/Series/20-Series/Loaders/BL25R.aspx

The CH4720 in the DFW ad uses the same loader as above.


----------



## farmerjan

We also move round bales, 1000 lb or so, with a ford 4600 spear on FEL,  2 wd and a 2 wd 6600 also.  When it gets real muddy, like lately with all the rain we have had for the last 2 weeks, we have had to use the big 4wd JD with a bale on the front and one in the bale unroller on the back.   We prefer to take bales with the bale bed on the truck, since some pastures are several miles away, but the muddy fields lately have found us getting stuck or sliding too much.  The ground has been like glue and slop....making a lot of ruts in and out gates etc. 

All of our equipment is also listed/covered by our insurance.  It is too easy for people to steal stuff.  And often it is the attachments/that they steal....and balers can be hooked up to a pickup hitch as well as some of the smaller things like rakes etc....smaller "mini-farm" sized stuff only will take a couple of hefty guys to pick up or slide over on to a flatbed trailer.... and gone.


----------



## greybeard

Which bale unroller are you using?


----------



## babsbag

@Bruce, nothing is safe in CA.


----------



## Latestarter

The primary reason I was looking at the 4520 over something smaller is it's a 4 cyl diesel vice 3 cylinder on the lower HP tractors. The 4520 also has a 47 HP, the same engine as in the 4720. I was told that I shouldn't get anything less than 35 HP. Some round bales here can be 1200 pounds or a little more from what I've been told. The 2100 pound lift is measured at the pin. I wanted to have cushion. The way it was explained to me is it's better to go with a little more than you "think" you need and have some reserve power, rather than getting the lower power unit and finding out it's not enough. I have no problem buying a cared for used tractor and saving some money, but it seems they don't depreciate like a car. They seem to hold value fairly well until they get "well used".  

I really don't care about the cab and would actually prefer not to have one. Save a little money & I'm concerned with visibility and would prefer a wide open view around me. I don't need the radio or any of the other fancy stuff as I won't be in it for hours & hours at a time. And as a hobby farmer I imagine for the most part I can be a fair weather tractor user... if the weather sucks, I'll put off using it till it's better.

Who do you folks get your farm equipment insurance from? Is there a better insurer to go through? I don't think I can include it on my home owner's policy... haven't checked.


----------



## AClark

Here's what my parents had: https://www.statefarm.com/insurance/home-and-property/farm-ranch/farm-ranch-property

That may not be what you need, it looks like if you finance through the tractor company, they provide insurance cheap for the term of the loan, but not after. Personally, I don't care much for State Farm, but my parents like them. I believe Farm Bureau insurance does tractor coverage, but I'm not sure what that entails (comprehensive?) it does cover theft of the tractor.

I did learn that you can insure other farm equip. (like trailers etc) separately, though my insurance for my truck covers them if I'm towing them, and that's always been enough for me. I never really had a need but I'm considering it since we just bought a new gooseneck flatbed to replace our car hauler.


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## Baymule

We are insured with Germania which only insures rural properties. Our tractor is insured for only use on our farm, no commercial usage.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> @babsbag Well, since the pen is a temporary thing and any animal will only be in there for a couple of hours, I think it will be OK. There isn't going to be enough room in there for them to get a running start or to raise up, so even if they do butt it a little, they aren't going to have the leverage to do any serious damage. The other option was to drop the rear seats and carry them inside the truck, but if they start butting in there, that would be a much larger problem. I don't have an actual livestock trailer yet and my utility trailer still needs to be repaired and is open on the top, so they could try to jump out. I will need to get an actual livestock trailer down the road.
> 
> When arthritis flares up, why does it always seem to happen in the least favorable place(s)? My right hand and wrist are so sore right now it hurts to lift a mug of tea. I don't think I could grip a hammer right now and if I swung it, it might just leave my hand and take flight... I can just barely touch my little finger tip with my thumb on that hand.
> 
> And on a completely different subject, why didn't any of you Texas folks warn me they there are bugs down here? year round! While I was building out the truck pen yesterday I got inundated with these really tiny no-see-ums... they are everywhere! I'm sitting here eating some cocktail shrimp with cocktail sauce and one just land on the white paper plate where I can see it. Wonder how many I breathed in yesterday, or ate.  A little extra protein I guess. They're so small they can fit right through a regular window screen.
> 
> So I think I'll take a run over and buy some milk and yogurt for MEl. Then I think I'll go sit in my recliner with an ice pack on my hand and wrist.



I like that.

How hard is it going to be to get in and out of the truck bed?

ETA: As I read further I see you don't know how hard it's going to be go get in and out of the truck bed.


----------



## AClark

I had to go back a few pages, as I missed the critter hauler. I like it! DH was suggesting building something like that for the bed of his truck (mine has a permanent gooseneck ball in it) before we bought the abominable stock trailer. The little pygmy billy goat got to ride on the floorboard of the pickup, but he's small, can't do that with the Nubians. 

I feel you with the arthritis. I have facet arthrosis in all of my lumbar spine and it's a beast. Tumeric is a good anti-inflammatory, makes a "not quite disgusting " tea too. Nothing against the good stuff, but relieving some of the inflammation naturally never hurts!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I was told that I shouldn't get anything less than 35 HP.


I certainly agree with that.
3 cyl vs 4 cyl 'can' be misleading. Total displacement (cubic inches) comes in to play and a 3cyl with a larger bore and/or different length stroke can be very close to a 4 cyl in HP. Turbo or non-turbo is also part of the equation.  

Cab tractors are nice until the a/c goes out, or the tractor needs serious repair and the cab has to be removed. Removal and re-installation of the cab itself increases labor time &  cost considerably. 
I don't know anyone here that has a cab tractor that hasn't  had at least one glass broken out, and they aren't cheap either. Of course, a cab does protect the operator, and the dash, seat and control area from the elements and usually adds to resale or trade-in value.


----------



## Latestarter

So last night I got to thinking... (yeah, I know, dangerous) I think I mentioned I bought a couple of pork shoulders and asked the meat cutter to de-bone and tie them for the rotisserie, and that he did a very lousy job at it, handing me back a package of shoulder bones (2) with a good pound or more of meat on each. So I took them out last night to thaw and roasted them today for a late lunch. Just finished eating off the first one and Mel is out enjoying the 1st bone right now. This time I remembered the baked potato!  I'm normally a carnivore first, but that potato was just so good! And now I'm full and content  I'll finish the other bone tomorrow (or later tonight) and save the bone for Mel early next week.


----------



## AClark

I can't help but remember part of the cartoon Beauty and the Beast when you said you were thinking...

Gaston: LeFou, I'm afraid I've been thinking...
LeFou: A dangerous pastime
Gaston: I know!

At least that was a good idea, and not a plan hatched out by the "good idea fairy". Typically, I'm the good idea fairy. Let's restore that stock trailer she says, it'll be fun she said...pretty sure DH cringes before he comes home when I say "hey I had an idea"


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Latestarter said:


> So I took them out last night to thaw and roasted them today for a late lunch. Just finished eating off the first one and Mel is out enjoying the 1st bone right now.


I might be reading this wrong… but are you giving a cooked bone to your dog ? 
That is extremely dangerous if/when they decide to eat it. Cooked bones splinter = could kill your dog.  

I love potatoes. Anything potatoes. Salad, soup, baked, fried… except mashed LOL


----------



## NH homesteader

Yeah.... GW is right on that...

No mashed potatoes?? I love mashed potatoes!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Nope, have never been able to eat em. I'm a "texture" person and I can't handle it. Don't do jelly or jam either.


----------



## NH homesteader

Strawberry jelly with chunks is gross. I have texture issues too, just different ones! Oatmeal creeps me out too lol


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Yep, oatmeal, anything pudding like is just 

Sorry for the hijack LS 
I'll stop lol


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Ya'll make me laugh!  When I was young we were just grateful to get anything to eat...

And school was uphill in both directions, lol!!

Just pickin' on ya!


----------



## greybeard

Many decades ago, I was walking the 3 miles to school, uphill thru the 4' drifts of snow against a blistering headwind and arrived at school with just one shoe on. Teacher asked if I lost a shoe and I said "No teacher--I found one".
I just wish I could have found a coat to go over my teeshirt.


----------



## Mike CHS

I smoked 4 racks of Baby Backs today and then I have two pork shoulders to smoke tomorrow.  Having some neighbors over.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

frustratedearthmother said:


> Ya'll make me laugh!  When I was young we were just grateful to get anything to eat...
> 
> And school was uphill in both directions, lol!!
> 
> Just pickin' on ya!


If it was on my plate, I still ate it


----------



## NH homesteader

Me too, and stifled the disgusted faces lol!


----------



## babsbag

My texture thing is peas.    And DH would add them to every casserole type dish he makes if I didn't complain.


----------



## Baymule

Food textures.....first of ya'll know you're just plain messed up, don't 'cha? My DD is food weird too and managed to marry a man with the same taste (or non-taste) in food. Their oldest child is texture weird too, the middle child likes everything and the youngest hasn't started eating real food yet.

Food texture?? Or the other one....it doesn't _look _good 

My Mom was a lousy cook. I didn't know steak came any other way but chicken fried to shoe leather hardness, until I left home.


----------



## Bruce

AClark said:


> At least that was a good idea, and not a plan hatched out by the "good idea fairy". Typically, I'm the good idea fairy. Let's restore that stock trailer she says, it'll be fun she said...pretty sure DH cringes before he comes home when I say "hey I had an idea"



The joke at our house is "I've got a great idea".  DD1 used to say that a fair bit when she was much younger. Those "great" ideas didn't generally sound so good the the parental units.




Goat Whisperer said:


> I might be reading this wrong… but are you giving a cooked bone to your dog ?
> That is extremely dangerous if/when they decide to eat it. Cooked bones splinter = could kill your dog.



Um @purplequeenvt is Merlin still alive???? He got a bone from a cooked 3 rib roast 3 days running including the day I had to return him.



babsbag said:


> My texture thing is peas.    And DH would add them to every casserole type dish he makes if I didn't complain.



My wife would throw me out if I didn't feed her peas at LEAST twice a week!



Baymule said:


> Food texture?? Or the other one....it doesn't _look _good



My grandfather had a response to that: "Lo estómago no tiene ojos." He was born in Spain, immigrated when he was 15, I think that was around 1910. (*) My kids have heard that WAY too often. Now when I hear that something doesn't look good from them I'll say " And....???" They will respond appropriately adding eye rolls. Extra special when they say it as a duet.

* In case you need a hint on how to translate it if necessary.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Umm, we have goats. So, yeah, we are a little weird by nature 

I don't know why truthfully. When growing up, none of my siblings had any texture issues… but then again, certain pitches and noises I just can't handle. Beeping is one of them. 

But like I said, if it was served and I was asked to eat it, I would. 

Things like jelly or jello make be want to 
Pudding too


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Bruce said:


> Um @purplequeenvt is Merlin still alive???? He got a bone from a cooked 3 rib roast 3 days running including the day I had to return him.


Oh my gosh, really?!

Our dogs eat raw bones, but never cooked. Many dogs die from eating cooked bones.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@Latestarter do you know the rabies vaccination laws are over there? 
We were just talking about NC's laws. 
You have to re vaccinate dogs almost right away when bringing them in from out of state.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I give my dogs cooked bones all the time
I've never even heard that they were bad
I heard that you shouldn't give them chicken bones but I didn't hear it until I had been feeding mine chicken bones for 30 years so it was too late


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Maybe we are overly cautious. Cooked bones become brittle and have a greater risk for splintering. Not saying every dog will die from it, but it happens. 
It's fine until it isn't. 

Having just lost a dog, I look at it as a "why risk it" thing. I could never forgive myself if I fed a bone and the dog died from it.


----------



## TAH

My friends GR-dog choked on a cooked on a chicken bone. They ended up taking her to the vet and having it removed. I agree with GW not every bone is bad but there are some that splinter.


----------



## NH homesteader

Nah I'm with you GW. I don't risk it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

The vet I used to work with fed his own dogs chicken bones...the cooked ones.  When I asked him about it he just said the risk is low...even though the risk is there.  

I still don't feed mine cooked bones - even though my grandkids did before I knew about it - argh!  They were fine, but I'm in the "why risk it" category as far as chicken bones go.

I don't worry too much about a great big ol' bone....


----------



## Goat Whisperer

If it's rare- it will happen to us. 

Did I ever mention our best friend (like family) was struck by lightning? And LIVED! 

I'm not going to hi jack (again ) 

There is a whole list of "no this never happens" that HAS happened here.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Goat Whisperer said:


> There is a whole list of "no this never happens" that HAS happened here


Can certainly understand that!  I've had goats for 20 - 25 years and this is the first time I've ever had a goat break a leg...


----------



## farmerjan

@greybeard  don't know the make of the bale unroller but will ask my son.  And the 6600 is the one with the FEL not the 4600.  We use the 4600  with the big wheel rake, because of the hydraulics.  
Yes LS, get a little more tractor than you think you will need because there will always be the time you will need more....and bigger will resell better if you decide to do that.  I don't know alot about all the engine specs and 3 vs 4 cyl and that stuff,  but know that certain of our farm tractors are good for some things and useless for other stuff.  I'm not a big fan of the cabs except for use in the winter feeding,  but we can't wait for a nice day most of the time.....They are essential for round baling with A/C because of the dust and dirt that envelopes the cab;  and for using the big discbine due to the dangerous blades that have been known to break and get thrown forward during hay mowing;  the cab will give a person running it a chance. But I hate having to try to "look around" the cab.


----------



## farmerjan

We have farm bureau insurance and have also used a "local",   rockingham mutual farm ins.. We have 1 mil liability as well as individual ins on the different pieces of equipment and the animals.


----------



## Latestarter

There's always a first time for everything, and there's never gonna be a first time because it's already happened to someone, some time, some place, some how. I've fed my dogs cooked (and raw) bones for the better part of 50 years and none of them ever had an issue with it. That includes only red meat type bones from large animals, not bird (hollow), and only solid bones, not the little tiny ones that they can swallow whole and possibly choke on. I know that chicken bones and other bird bones that are hollow become very brittle after being cooked and can shatter into shards. Although I DO pull the cartilage caps off the ends of the chicken bones and feed those to Mel. There are risks associated with just about everything. I believe the risk in this is so minimal that I'm not concerned about it.

On the other side of the coin GW... Think how happy Callie would have been if she had had that delicious rib roast bone as a final treat/meal/snack before she was taken by the other cause? Bay just came close to losing her Lab because it ate a hickory nut... I mean there are so many ways an animal can die that have absolutely nothing to do with a cooked bone.    OK, anyway... no problems with hijacking, it's all good. 

So I just got back from @tressa27884 's new place and helped offload (most of) the moving trailer. Devonviolet was there with her DH. Tressa texted us late in the afternoon that she was there and when we offered to come today and help she accepted readily. We got there about the same time... they beat me by about 10-15 minutes. We got all but the last ~3 feet of the trailer emptied. Tressa said her and her 2 boys could handle the rest tomorrow.  Welcome to east Texas Tressa! Glad you made it! 

I spent most of yesterday with an ice pack on my right hand and wrist so it was functional today. Still not at 100% but good enough to help with the unpack. My knees and back are a little stiff right now from up/down the ramp and up/down the front steps, but a spell in the jacuzzi ought to do that just fine. When the boys complained they were sore and tired I had to tease them and say sorry they weren't over at my place where they could soak in the jacuzzi Heehehehe... I'm a meanie.


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> Lo estómago no tiene ojos



I had to run that one through google translate and they didn't get it exactly right. They came up with this...
"What stomach does not have eyes"    
I know my Spanish well enough to know that that was not a question but a statement..."The stomach no have eyes" would be more correct.


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> My Mom was a lousy cook. I didn't know steak came any other way but chicken fried to shoe leather hardness, until I left home.


 
That is just too funny, Bay!


----------



## Devonviolet

OneFineAcre said:


> ETA: As I read further I see you don't know how hard it's going to be go get in and out of the truck bed


Okay, @OneFineAcre. Any suggestions???  

We have lifted our 100 lb LGDs onto the tailgate - each of us take a side & lift, with arms under chest & groin area. Not so easy when they don't want to go in the truck.

I'm concerned about getting a 125lb pregnant doe onto the tailgate, without a ramp - unless Goatgurl has a porch we could back up to like it was a loading dock.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I had to run that one through google translate and they didn't get it exactly right. They came up with this...
> "What stomach does not have eyes"
> I know my Spanish well enough to know that that was not a question but a statement..."The stomach no have eyes" would be more correct.


True, Google translate is far from perfect but usually gets me to the right idea. You should look up the videos of songs run through GT multiple time through different languages then back to English. Pretty funny.

I think the "does not" vs "no" is correct however.


----------



## greybeard

I've never heard of 'texture problems".
???


----------



## CntryBoy777

@greybeard you'd probably recognize it as MRE....


----------



## AClark

Cntry, I doubt it. MRE's frequently have separated things that look gross in them, and you just mix it back in and eat it anyway. The cheese and PB spread the most, that stuff looks nasty if you don't knead the package first.
Grey probably could relate with C-rats.

Personally, I don't get the texture thing myself. I'm not a picky eater by any means.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Everyone has their quirks 

I can skin and gut deer with one hand and eat a sandwich with another. Doesn't bother me. 
Watching necropsies while eating- doesn't bother me. 

I've had grown men freak out over "gross" things I do. I'm not easily grossed out. But food with a particular texture.........  

But, like I said- if it was what I could afford or the only thing I had- obviously I'd eat it. 

If I have a potato, I'm going to make it into something *I *like.


----------



## AClark

I'm much the same way. Nothing grosses me out other than snot. My 5 year old will rocket that stuff and it gets a gag out of me. Animal snot, not at all. Blood, guts, bodily fluids other than snot are all whatever. 

There are plenty of foods I don't care much for, liver being one of them. I think that's been the only thing I actually spit out rather than just sucking it up and eating that piece and calling it good. That wasn't texture, that was just the nasty flavor of it though. It's like cutting yourself off a slice of your trucks oil filter, and I can attest to the fact that 15w40 tastes better than liver.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, I really hate to disagree, because we Love liver and onions w/gravy on Mashed potatoes.
As far as being "Grossed" out, heck I'm a country boy, so about the only thing that gets me is "Dirty Diapers"...with 4 daughters and grandkids there have been Plenty and will change them, but it isn't without a Gag or 2.


----------



## CntryBoy777

@Devonviolet all ya need is a step for them and a bucket with some pellets in it...they will Hop up on their own, or if she has a stanchion it could be that step.


----------



## Mike CHS

I love liver but my son can't stand it.  I cooked it oftn when the kids were growing up but that was one of the few times that I cooked separate items for them.

I get some looks occasionally when I put two tins of anchovies on my ceasar salad though.


----------



## NH homesteader




----------



## Devonviolet

CntryBoy777 said:


> @Devonviolet all ya need is a step for them and a bucket with some pellets in it...they will Hop up on their own, or if she has a stanchion it could be that step.


Excellent idea @CntryBoy!  I like it, I like it!!!


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Here is my little blurb I got off a web site some time back on one of my favorite side foods:

Health benefits of anchovies include healthy heart, lower levels of bad cholesterol and toxin levels. It helps in improving skin health, reducing weight and strengthening teeth. Intake of anchovies also reduces risk of osteoporosis and macular degeneration. The nutrients and vitamins found within anchovies are the main factor behind this wide ranges of benefits people can enjoy by adding them to their weekly diet!  Their taste is not pleasant to many people, but for those with certain health conditions, you might want to learn to love these salty little fish, which are normally sold in tins or cans and can be put on pizzas, sandwiches, in Caesar salad dressing, and tomato sauce.  Of course there is always the other side: The final consideration about anchovies is their high level of sodium, which is definitely a factor for people with high blood pressure, because a massive increase in sodium will put you at a higher risk for even higher blood pressure and an increased chance of heart attack or stroke.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Yup, the going up is the easiest, I always had an issue getting them down out of the bed of the truck...  But it could just be me


----------



## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> @greybeard you'd probably recognize it as MRE....


No, we ate from little cans, but I still don't understand about 'texture' in regards to eating.


----------



## Devonviolet

Mike CHS said:


> I get some looks occasionally when I put two tins of anchovies on my ceasar salad though.



       M-m-m-m! Now your makin' my mouth water!  Somewhere around here, I have a recipe for the original Caesar Salad.  It came with the story, about a chef, named Caesar, who cooked in a restaurant in Mexico City. One night, they had a run on the restaurant, and ran out of most of their food reserves. But, the people kept coming.

So, he collected what he had and made a salad, using the following ingredients:
Romaine Lettuce
Onion (thinly sliced)
Olive Oil
1 Lemon for juice
Garlic (finely minced)
Anchovies - coarsely chopped
1 Egg - whisked to combine
Salt
Crusty bread
Parmesan cheese thinly sliced & loosely
     crumbled

He cubed the bread, fried it in olive oil (until crunchy) & set it aside.

Next he broke the Romaine lettuce into bite size pieces, and tossed it in a large bowl, with the sliced onion.

For the dressing, he whisked the juice of one lemon with olive oil, garlic & salt and poured it over the lettuce & onion, along with the raw, whisked egg, tossing lightly to coat the lettuce.

On top of that, he sprinkled the Anchovies, Parmesan cheese & bread cubes. With a light toss, he was ready to serve his hungry customers.

Needless to say, the salad was a hit and became a favorite of Ceasar's customers.


----------



## Mike CHS

Teresa used to manage an O'Charley's and we make ours like they did.  I'll grill a steak while she makes the salad and then top the salad with slices of steak.  Now I'm getting hungry and may have to test the pork shoulders I'm doing for tonight.


----------



## Bruce

Don't test too much, Teresa might want some for dinner


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> I think the "does not" vs "no" is correct however.



I am sure that the 'does not' would be the proper translation, quite often in Spanish they use their verbs in a different order.  I had 6 years of Spanish in school but my vocabulary is horrible. I can read it but usually have no idea what I read and forget translating from the spoken word. My MIL spoke very little English even though she lived in Texas most of her life. but I always let my FIL or DH translate for me.


----------



## Latestarter

So I guess my thread has become the culinary thread. Along those lines, I have been craving a good Philly cheesesteak w/mushroom & onion sub for a while now. No place around here offers them, at least not a "true" rendition. So the local grocery just put rib eye roasts on sale and I decided I'd buy me a roast and make a legit sub. Well, getting the roast isn't the issue... They don't have a slicer in the meat department, only in the deli department. They can't slice raw meat on the deli slicers because of contamination issues. The meat room offered to cut it with the band saw, but I'd lose too much to saw waste, and they'd never be able to get it cut thin enough. So I decided I'd go ahead and buy a meat slicer and do it myself.

So there are places around that you can buy a very cheap slicer at, but of course I don't want to buy a piece of crap that's gonna break or burn up after several uses. Best choice I seemed to have was to drive to BassPro Shop 2 hours away but they only carried the cheap models (their brand) in store as well. So I ended up buying a decent, highly rated/reviewed machine online through Amazon Prime with guaranteed 2 day delivery to arrive here Monday the 6th.  https://chefschoice.com/product/chefschoice-electric-food-slicer-model-615/





I also bought the optional smooth slicing blade to go with it for cheeses and hams for less than $30.00. The rib roast is on sale through Tuesday so it looks like I have to wait until then to have my sub. I'm guessing I'll slice up the whole roast and freeze individual serving sized packages for future use.




Next on the agenda I believe will be getting a regular roast and slicing it up to make jerky


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, LS if ya would have something else to Report, it wouldn't get "HiJacked" near as much, but when it is all ya have posted since the Mel pics....just what do ya Expect to happen??....It does seem that Good Food follows ya around like a puppy dog...


----------



## NH homesteader

Sweet! Bookmarked! I need one of those. It will get regular use at my house, looks like a good one.


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Next on the agenda I believe will be getting a regular roast and slicing it up to make jerky


Oh _MAN!!! _Does that make my mouth water!!!    It's been YEARS since I had a _real_ Philly Cheese Steak, in Philly, of all places!  

Btw, that slicer looks really nice!  Good buy there LS.


----------



## TAH

Nice! 

I was wondering what kind of grinder you were going to get?


----------



## OneFineAcre

Nice
Enjoy your cheese steak sandwich 
I


----------



## Latestarter

This machine was ranked pretty much at the top of every comparison test I was able to find. The 2nd best was their model 610 which was like $85 bucks. This one has the more powerful motor at 120 watts vs 110 for the 610... Also this one is gear driven vice belt... Another plus. The next step up after this one ($149) jumps to mid $200s then mid $300s all the way up to the true commercial units that are thousands. The reviews were many and overall pretty good at 68% 5 of 5 and 20% 4 of 5 so almost 90% (88%) of the reviews were 4 or better.  https://www.amazon.com/Chefs-Choice-Premium-Electric-Slicer/product-reviews/B0058VCYWS  the 610 had the same overall (65% m5/5 24% 4/5; 89% actual).

I think for the grinder I'm going to go with the Cabelas model that was talked about in @Alexz7272 bought. Not too small but not too big either: http://www.cabelas.com/product/home...ination=/category/Food-Grinders/104364180.uts


----------



## Pastor Dave

I have a meat saw leftover from my Mom's restaurant days.
It is simple 110v with a 7-1/2" blade just like my skill saw.
It does the job for now until I need to break down and buy something else. And, it comes apart pretty easy to wash and then I wipe it all down with clorox wipes and let air dry.
I always buy roasts for cheaper at fhe grocery and make my own steaks. It really saves money. I can do 1" to a really thin fraction. I love it, and sounds like you will too.


----------



## Bruce

Sounds like a plan Chef Joe   Though I don't know why you have to slice up the entire rib roast for cheese steaks. What is wrong with hacking off some 1" or so steaks as well? I know there is a guy that lives REAL close to you that does killer rib eye steaks on the BBQ. At least I've been told he does.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, you know Bruce, I could do that, however, I really prefer my rib eye steaks "on the bone" for added flavor, especially grilled. Now depending on the fine capability of this slicer, I "may" have a thin sliced rib eye steak left at the end that I'll be obligated to cook as a breakfast steak with some eggs and toast... may even splurge and cook up some fresh hand grated hash browns w/onions and cheese to put those eggs on top of as well  

I may have mentioned that I like rib eye steaks for any meal...   Not buying a whole rib section, just a 3-4 pound small roast.


----------



## Bruce

You need to get that coop built so you can get some layers and have local free range eggs with those steaks!


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so I have very few things that "rule" my life, but the New England Patriots are one of those things. I'll admit, I'm spoiled. But must point out that is wasn't always so... I was there during the bad times as well. The Raiders still to this day complain about that snowy night in Foxborough when the "tuck rule" started the Patriots present domination of the AFC and their ongoing dynasty. But I remember (as I'm sure do many other older Pats fans) when the Patriots played the Raiders for a spot in the super bowl and the refs called pass interference repeatedly in the final minute of the game (If I remember it was 4 fouls called one after the next) to march the Raiders down the field so they could score and move on. That was MULTIPLE ref calls, not just one. The Raiders went on to win that Superbowl.

I'm pretty depressed about the 1st 1/2... Bad play calls, poor execution, bad throws, bad O line play, poor defense... I mean it was pretty much about everything that could go wrong went wrong. Didn't watch Lady Gaga's show... no interest in that. the 2nd 1/2 has started and I'm not even sure I want to watch, as you can tell I'm typing here instead. No team has ever come back from this far down in a super bowl. I'm not a fair weather fan, but can't stand to see them get completely dominated like this. I'm depressed.

So anyway I thought I'd share a good aspect of the day at this time, my dinner:



 


 
Now imagine the same plate empty, but for a chili red smear covering the bottom of the plate and you'll "see" what I'm seeing as I type this. It was very tasty 

Now I guess I'll head back to my TV and see it through.


----------



## Mike CHS

That doesn't look like something I want to eat but I have a smiley anyway.


----------



## NH homesteader

I am so depressed with you. This is so not how it was supposed to go!


----------



## greybeard

Looks good. I used to eat like that. Before my sudden and unplanned x4 bypass surgery....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well LS I'd sure "Chow Down" with ya! 
I gave up football after my 2 attacks, but it didn't stop me from eating....just not as Much as I used to...if a man has to die, he might as well die Happy, the way I see it anyway.


----------



## Baymule

I am not much of a football fan, but I like the super bowl, mostly for the commercials. This years commercials are.......meh.....nothing special. I always cook something for us to enjoy during the game, but after all weekend of the grands, plus the dog, and DD not getting here until late, I just didn't care. All I made was jalapeno poppers. They were good. DH is watching the game and texting our neighbor. I am catching up on several days worth of posts.....


----------



## Baymule

WOW! Did ya'll just see that????


----------



## Baymule

28-28!!


----------



## NH homesteader

LS I hope you returned to the game!!! Holy cow I need cable. This is nerve wracking!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

CRAZINESS HERE!


----------



## NH homesteader

OMG!!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

WOW!  What a finish.  That was totally two separate games.  It was the Atlanta game in the first half - and the New England game the second half!


----------



## Baymule

That was wild.


----------



## greybeard

now, try to deflate that Goodell!!


----------



## Latestarter

OMG!!!  Just finished watching the replays, the interviews, the whole blessed thing! I am SO GLAD I went back and finished it out. I still rank the victory over Seattle in SB 49 as better, simply because it was a play that should never have happened the way it did and any team on that offensive play would be successful 999 times out of a thousand. But this one is #2 all time! Wonder what the TV ratings were... When NE won the toss for OT and took offense I knew it was all over. I KNEW they had won the game. How many walked away at the 1/2? Both Robert Kraft and Tom got their nudges in on the podium but I think Tom handled it with class. First ever super bowl tie/overtime. First ever come back from 25 down! <--- unimaginable! Brady, first ever QB to win 5 super bowls. So many firsts, so many records. How can there be any debate left about who the GOAT is, coach or QB?

Wonder how many saw Dion Sanders call out the Colts for cheating openly and being allowed to even though everyone in the NFL inner circles knew it was happening...

I'll be watching the talking heads discuss this for the next 6 months until pre-season of next year. Amazing. I was literally shaking trying to text to/with family members. just wow.


----------



## Mike CHS

We walked away at the half thinking Atlanta had it in the bag.  We switched over to Game of Thrones on DVD and was amazed when we turned the game channel back on.


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> We walked away at the half thinking Atlanta had it in the bag.


So did the Falcons.


----------



## NH homesteader

Even Mark Wahlburg left the super bowl. (sorry non Markie Mark fans but he's a raging fan of all Boston if there ever was one). But if there's one team you can't count out until the end, its the Pats.


----------



## Pastor Dave

[QUOTE="Latestarter, post: 
Wonder how many saw Dion Sanders call out the Colts for cheating openly and being allowed to even though everyone in the NFL inner circles knew it was happening...[/QUOTE]

I am very glad so many NE fans on here got this bizarre win with so much breaking history. Obviously I am not a fan due to the Pats - Colts rivalry, but what a comeback! Made the game so much more interesting to say the least.
I am not sure abt your Dion Sanders observation. I must have been sleeping when this happened. Will you share what I missed? You can pm if you want. I am just curious.
Thanks LS,
--Dave


----------



## Latestarter

I only saw it the one time and my memory isn't all it once was but something along these lines... Ladanian Tomlinson said people are going to bring up spygate so should they... & Dion stopped him and said you know what, I say to that look at the COLTS. One of the others said but they weren't caught, Dion said so what? I saw it! They knew all the defensive signals being called. Everyone knew it, right LT? And LT said yes, but only the actual players and folks in the game saw it was happening. The NFL and those who knew kept it quiet and kept it from public knowledge.

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...ses_colts_of_stealing_signals/s1_127_23161675

In the supposed spygate scandal, the Pats were videotaping the jets, the same as virtually every other team in the league does, but they were doing it from the wrong spot... that's why they got in trouble. From what I remember & I'm not sure, it was either a new film group or somesuch and the film crew didn't do anything wrong intentionally and when asked to move, they did. Come to find out, the jets were caught filming the Pats from a "wrong spot" (multiple times after being warned!) and nothing was said or done aside from the film crew finally being escorted away from the area. http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate

OK, I don't want to get all spun up about the NFL, the perennial & sore loser owners and their pet "attack dog" goodell... They tried to take down NE with "spygate" and when that didn't work they manufactured "deflategate" and guess what, that didn't work either. And until such time as Belechick and Brady retire, the rest of the NFL is going to continue to have to deal with the reality that they are the best at what they do... and don't need to cheat to do it. To quote a song lyric, Hater's gonna hate, and folks who can't win will find any excuse for their losses & to fault the winner because losers hate winners. We used to call them sore sports.

Here's a place where you can get some eye opening stuff: http://yourteamcheats.com/   It's pretty amazing stuff really. most just don't know.

Oh, I also learned that a new TB12 commercial was filmed before the game was played but wasn't aired until right after the win. I guess a New England company... wow:
https://mobile.twitter.com/mkmolnar/status/828467533053325312/video/1


----------



## greybeard

Pastor Dave said:


> Will you share what I missed?


https://larrybrownsports.com/football/deion-sanders-accuses-colts-stealing-signals/349545

From a Reddit post, supposedly a direct quote:


> Wish I had a link, but it sort of just happened in the last hour, as I just saw it on my DVR recording of NFL network's post game show. Since it's recorded, I can give a direct quote
> 
> 
> Tomlinson: "I've heard people say, you gotta put an asterisk around that first superbowl"
> 
> Sanders: "Okay, those same critics, did they say anything about the wins that the Indianapolis Colts had?"
> Tomlinson: "Yeah"
> Sanders: "Do you wanna talk about that too?"
> Tomlinson: "Yeah....yeah"
> Sanders: "Because they were getting EVERYBODIES signals. Come on, you don't walk up to the line and look over here and the man on the sidelines is giving you the defense, it's cause they stole the plays"
> Chris Rose: "Except there's no tape there, so we can't necessarily....."
> Sanders: "Please. But we all knew. L.T knew. Every body in the NFL knew. We just didn't let the fans know. That was real and that was happening...in Indy"
> 
> Was this ever a thing? I don't remember hearing about it. But he sure seemed pretty concluded that it was and L.T was shaking his head yes and smiling the whole time.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Latestarter said:


> I only saw it the one time and my memory isn't all it once was but something along these lines... Ladanian Tomlinson said people are going to bring up spygate so should they... & Dion stopped him and said you know what, I say to that look at the COLTS. One of the others said but they weren't caught, Dion said so what? I saw it! They knew all the defensive signals being called. Everyone knew it, right LT? And LT said yes, but only the actual players and folks in the game saw it was happening. The NFL and those who knew kept it quiet and kept it from public knowledge.
> 
> http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/artic...ses_colts_of_stealing_signals/s1_127_23161675
> 
> In the supposed spygate scandal, the Pats were videotaping the jets, the same as virtually every other team in the league does, but they were doing it from the wrong spot... that's why they got in trouble. From what I remember & I'm not sure, it was either a new film group or somesuch and the film crew didn't do anything wrong intentionally and when asked to move, they did. Come to find out, the jets were caught filming the Pats from a "wrong spot" (multiple times after being warned!) and nothing was said or done aside from the film crew finally being escorted away from the area. http://yourteamcheats.com/what-is-spygate
> 
> OK, I don't want to get all spun up about the NFL, the perennial & sore loser owners and their pet "attack dog" goodell... They tried to take down NE with "spygate" and when that didn't work they manufactured "deflategate" and guess what, that didn't work either. And until such time as Belechick and Brady retire, the rest of the NFL is going to continue to have to deal with the reality that they are the best at what they do... and don't need to cheat to do it. To quote a song lyric, Hater's gonna hate, and folks who can't win will find any excuse for their losses & to fault the winner because losers hate winners. We used to call them sore sports.
> 
> Here's a place where you can get some eye opening stuff: http://yourteamcheats.com/   It's pretty amazing stuff really. most just don't know.
> 
> Oh, I also learned that a new TB12 commercial was filmed before the game was played but wasn't aired until right after the win. I guess a New England company... wow:
> https://mobile.twitter.com/mkmolnar/status/828467533053325312/video/1


Things that make you go hmmm.
I prefer honest play.


----------



## Latestarter

I think that most of us, especially from our generation(s) prefer and expect honest play.

So Philly mushroom & onion cheese steak sub update: Slicer ordered from Amazon Prime, guaranteed 2 day delivery by 8pm tonight. Tracking indicates it's on its way to me but it's 7:24 right now and I don't expect it to arrive today. <sigh> So will have to wait and see tomorrow. May call the USPS and ask them to hold the pkg and I'll go pick it up. Will see if I wake up in time to catch it before it "leaves" the bldg... So hoping for that sub maybe as a late lunch/early dinner tomorrow. Report and details to follow.


----------



## NH homesteader

Very serious farming thread we have here.


----------



## CntryBoy777




----------



## Latestarter

Oh? You hadn't noticed the recent name change?


----------



## NH homesteader

better title!!


----------



## Mike CHS

I hadn't noticed it either.


----------



## greybeard

Even professional farmers/ranchers get a little down time/leisure time and take a day off once in a while.


----------



## Pastor Dave

In the summer or before started school, would ride with Dad to a diner or the elevator, Co-op or somewhere for lunch where all the guys would be sitting. All the talking was done for the day, and the wives would be at home on the party line doing the same. More chores to do back at home, feeding til supper, and then in for the night. The days before internet.


----------



## farmerjan

LS, just home from testing and when I came on one of the first things I noticed was the name change.  But I am confused, why the "maybe" part???? Thought that the goat acquisition was a pretty sure thing??????


----------



## Latestarter

Well... It's been so long at this point I figured I'd change it to reality until such time as I actually acquire some livestock. I will be visiting @goatgurl on Thursday... 2 days hence, to see what we can arrange as far as animals, numbers, when, where, how, etc. Since she has Lamanchas and that's one of the primary breeds I really want. She was needing to downsize and I'm needing to upsize... I'm of the idea that those kinda go together if we can come to an arrangement/agreement. I also have Nigies waiting for me from @animalmom but that's not till May or a bit later.

You may remember me saying that I had a lead on possible piglets? You might also have noticed GG's comments regarding a sow of hers that recently had piglets? One and the same... but at last report only one was still alive. Don't know if that one will still be there or available. I'd really like to get a couple of heritage breeds as close to full blood as I can and cross them.  Was thinking/leaning toward Tamworth and Old Spot:  https://dhn-hes.ca.uky.edu/content/heritage-hog-carcass-yields   But it's really going to depend on what's available.   If I cross 2 heritage breeds, from what I understand, they can still be shown 4H as they will still be considered heritage hogs. I was thinking a couple of gilts and a boar (or two with one wethered strictly for 1st year freezer). That way I could potentially sell wieners or feeders and keep some for future breeding and freezer.

I'd also like to get some sheep... I really would like to follow Bay's lead and get some Katahdin ewes and a Dorper ram. They will be bred strictly for meat sales. Maybe to expand our herds, Bay and I can swap rams for genetic diversity as well down the road... just a thought...

So yeah... none of that is reality at this point... all still dreams.


----------



## NH homesteader

Oh brush up on your hog lingo, it's not called wethering. sorry just picking on you. Ok I LOVE old spots. They are so sweet and adorable, and are fatty but delicious. Crossing with a leaner breed (like Duroc, but I believe Tamworth would work great too) is fantastic for leaner (still plenty of fat) and amazing meat.

I know nothing about showing, it's not my thing. When are you getting poultry? Still thinking chickens and turkeys?


----------



## Mike CHS

I think we have shown that you can go from "maybe some day" to massive change in a short time.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I think we have shown that you can go from "maybe some day" to massive change in a short time.



He can use that rush from the Pats win to get in a half mile of fence!



greybeard said:


> So did the Falcons.



You can say that again (well not really necessary). Probably wore themselves out partying at halftime.


----------



## Latestarter

I know castrating a hog isn't called wethering... DUH... mind isn't all there anymore   couldn't think of the term. So yeah, make one a barrow and keep one a boar. Yes... I still want chickens and turkeys as well... still really on the fence about ducks/geese... no real interest in them but may need to get some for slug/snail control. I imagine I'll just start out with chicks from TSC or something. Got to get a coop/run put together as I'm NOT having chicks in the house again... been there, done that, have the T-shirt. One of my biggest issues is I don't really have a lot of "flat" land near the house and existing outbuildings... my property slopes pretty well. Excellent for drainage and run off, not so excellent for building out buildings, especially those required to be of larger size like a barn...  Can't afford to do everything at once so need to do stuff in some sort of order that doesn't screw me up down the road on the other things I need to do (like that barn). So need to be sure of fence placement and gate placement etc. I'm about to go stake everything out where I eventually want it to make sure it all works, then commence running fence and gates for the initial holding area and first pasture for the goats/sheep.The pig pen I can throw together pretty quickly with 4-6 hog panels and hog rings. Until they're ready to farrow, they shouldn't even really need a bldg... just not that cold here.

On another note, my slicer is at the post office (I called) & I asked them to hold it for counter pick up. I'll swing over and get me a roast on the same trip and I hope to post more food pics later today for your salivary consideration


----------



## CntryBoy777

Just gotta Admire a man/woman with their "Feet on the Ground". However, a "Plan" only becomes "Reality" with Action and that starts tomorrow. IMO, there is a difference between a "Plan" and a "Dream", though I do agree that "Action" changes one into the other. It has been a very bumpy road ya have traveled to get to this point, so the frustration of it all is understandable.
In the short time I have been aquainted with ya, LS you have always had focus, determination, and certainly are a man of "Action". It is always the first step that is the hardest, and getting started takes desire, courage, and determination, all of which ya have an abundance of, because ya attempt to give it to others that need that "Nudge or Push", along with understanding. It is because of you and others here that gave me the encouragment to trek out with the diggers and dig that first post-hole. Now, tho progress is a bit slow, it is being accomplished. If ya wait for the "Stars to Align", then it will never happen, but having dealt with animals in the past and the miles and miles of "Print of Advice" that has been given to others, you are fully aware that a person's "Start" can be much different than their "Plan or Dream". The key to moving towards the fulfilment of the "Plan or Dream" is to get started moving, once there is motion it is much easier to adjust the direction one is heading in. When ya see a few posts in the ground and the "Chores" can be seen infront of ya, those "Plans and Dreams" really do become "Reality". Nobody ever starts out with things Exactly as "Planned or Dreamed", but is developed as they move forward. So, don't wait for just the "Right Situation" to present itself, or there will always be an acceptable reason to wait. Even if ya just get a few animals destined for the freezer, such as a couple of feeder pigs, whether the breed ya want to raise or not. Then ya can look for the right ones, but ya are working on getting a start on your freezer and own meat production.
I'll always be here to encourage ya, along with the whole "Herd". So, don't get too down and critical on yourself. You have crossed a bunch of hurdles to get to where you are, and there are a few more to get over, but you certainly are up to the task.


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## greybeard

Start with goals, not dreams. Once a realistic goal is established, develop the plan, then implement it.


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## Pastor Dave

@greybeard and @CntryBoy777 you two have got it together and beat me to the chase. A dream that stays motionless is just a nice thing to desire and think about.
LS you have a plan and goals. Good luck in those endeavors.
I know exactly what stock I want and what space I need. That is my dream and part of that dream is having the land with buildings, etc. I like to daydream abt it, but have no serious plan or good way right now to implement it. I still have some time. I just hope by then I still have the energy!


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## Latestarter

OK... as promised (threatened? ) 



Spoiler: Food! :)






 


 




The sandwich doesn't look as big or full as it actually is... Had trouble finishing it. But it was good.   I'm stuffed!


Couple of lessons learned, don't buy a piece of meat too big for the carriage to handle easily. If it extends out beyond the pressure plate (this did as is plain to see) you'll get an uneven cut and the part sticking out won't get cut. You can use your fingers to press on this to make it cut but it's not an even pressure and you're taking a chance of adding your fingers to the meat platter underneath... In addition, there will be a trailing edge that doesn't get fully cut either. trim off the excess fat... I left way too much. The blade spins a lot slower than what I had expected. I switched over to the non-serrated blade and it worked really well. I'll try the serrated next time. The machine is really easy to take down and clean, just be VERY careful around the cutting adge on the blade. It's VERY sharp! Overall a good purchase and priced right.


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## CntryBoy777

Something that will aid ya in the slicing is if the meat temp is around 28°....it is considered "Chilled" but not frozen, it will allow the slicing of an unstable pc of meat and better consistency of a thin slice....just tidbits I learned working in the meat plant, and personal experience in slicing without a slicer.


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## greybeard

chilled...
Same holds true for grinding or sausage making of any meat. And work fast...amazing how quickly it 'thaws' to room temp and becomes 'gummy'.


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## OneFineAcre

CntryBoy777 said:


> Something that will aid ya in the slicing is if the meat temp is around 28°....it is considered "Chilled" but not frozen, it will allow the slicing of an unstable pc of meat and better consistency of a thin slice....just tidbits I learned working in the meat plant, and personal experience in slicing without a slicer.



Good point.


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## Pastor Dave

My meat saw looks very similar, but was a restaurant supply purchase back in the early to mid 80's.
The blade is still razor sharp all these years.

CntryBoy777 and greybeard are both absolutely right. The meat cuts or grinds so much easier when chilled or half froze as I call it.
 LS looks like you will get lots of use out of it!


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## Bruce

Funny I was chatting with one of the cashiers and another customer at my favorite family owned market a couple of weeks ago and that "freeze the meat before slicing" thing came up. I figured it would be hard to cut but as @CntryBoy777 said, they weren't talking about freezing to 0F like you do for long term storage but frozen just a bit to make it really firm and easy to slice.

@Latestarter Looks like you won't need breakfast tomorrow.


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## Baymule

Git yore rear in gear and start strangin' sum fence!!!  Throw up a couple of hoop shelters, one for the goats/sheep and a coop for some chickens. I like the idea of trading rams, makes sense to me! The ram I have now is fairly well behaved.   He half reared up ready to smack me a week ago  and I *itch-slapped him across his nose, then ran at HIM yelling. You should've seen him hauling some Leg O' Lamb getting away from me! Most of the time we just eyeball each other in the mode of "you don't start anything and I won't start anything"


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## Bruce




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## farmerjan

When I cured some bacon years ago, I was also told to "freeze" it to where it was very firm/cold, and that it would slice alot better.


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## Latestarter

Just got home from 6 hours of driving. Nice trip, no police involvement... not that I speed mind you... or break any other nonsensical "laws"... All aside from the main point... I have now placed a deposit on 3 bred Lamancha does. 1 is a 2 yr old FF, the other 2 are 3-4 year old 2nd fresh. So, hopefully in a couple of months I'll double my herd size.   Included in the animal purchase is a 50/50 Large Black/Old Spot gilt. So, I need to find a boar for her and a couple more feeder gilts. Fencing and other improvements commence tomorrow. I am presently Emailing some pics to myself so I can DL them to my computer and post them. My phone battery is almost dead (it's on the charger) and my cell signal strength here is minimal, so it takes 15 minutes or more to upload one pic. In addition, I am on snail internet as I've used my monthly allocation, so may not be able to access Email, and if I can, it won't be till between midnight and 5am.

Met GoatGurl and her older sister at the Warehouse Willy restaurant in town right around noon and we had a nice lunch then headed to her place. Had a nice visit with her, and her goats, dogs, hogs, ducks, chickens, rabbits, & sheep.  Fun time was had by all   Hey, did y'all know they have Appalachian like mountains in eastern OK? Here I thought the whole state was more or less like Kansas... flat. Imagine my surprise?! Ayway, there's the latest and greatest. I'll post some pics as soon as I can.  Next I need to find 4-6 Katahdin sheep that I can afford.


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## Pastor Dave

Still just practicing animal husbandry?


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## NH homesteader

About to be a fence post master I would say. Get fencing man! That's a fair amount of animals to jump into at once. Breathe... And then get fencing. 

Did I mention you have a lot of fencing to do?

Seriously though, congrats on being one step closer!


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## Latestarter

Yeah... what comes after "practicing"? I mean lawyers never become competent as they practice their entire career... I guess when they get tired of practicing, that's when they run for public office... Then (since they never became proficient) they foist all the bad "laws" on us common folk. Maybe I'll become an animal husbandry pseudo-specialist... Just gonna fence in a couple of 3/4-1 acre pastures and a smaller containment area within that for initial holding and where their shelter will be.


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## Pastor Dave

In Indiana I see a lot of portable electric fences set up once a field is harvested or to rotate pastures. Maybe this could save you some time, energy, and money?
Maybe @Mike CHS and @CntryBoy777 too?
Just a thought


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## Latestarter

My pastures will be permanently fenced and the animals rotated through them. Just a matter of time and getting them all done.


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> When I cured some bacon years ago, I was also told to "freeze" it to where it was very firm/cold, and that it would slice alot better.



I buy a lot of whole boneless pork loins because they are cheap and so lean. We gave up the more tasteful chops several years ago because of the fat content. I buy this. 







A loin is kinda messy to slice into pork steaks so soon as I get the loin home I throw it in the freezer for a few hours, trim the excess fat off (dogs get the fat)  and slice it up 3/4-1" thick with a good knife and portion the results out into quart ziplock freezer bags--usually get only 3 to a qt bag.  Chilling makes it lots easier. I do the same with those tubes of breakfast sausage (even tho I'm not supposed to have them) . I chill those whole packs, slice them, and put them one layer in a 1 gallon ziplocks, freeze them laying down flat and just take out as many as we need.


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## TAH

Very excited for you Ls! I am hoping your fencing and the preparation of your new animals goes well and you can make the BEST of BEST of your property!

I wonder where a garden is going to fit in all this? You need all those healthy veggies to go with those meat animals once butchered and cooked. 

Very happy you FINALLY get goats!


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## Bruce

And to eat before the meat animals are ready to eat so he has the "trimmings" to feed to the pigs 



greybeard said:


> I do the same with those tubes of breakfast sausage (even tho I'm not supposed to have them)



Can't live on water  And since you have them sliced and in the freezer, you can make "more acceptable" portions. 

Good thing you mentioned pictures @Latestarter because I was going to say "WHERE ARE THE PICTURES!"  Especially since @Devonviolet failed us.


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## Mike CHS

I think you are planning it out well.  We also want fixed fence on our perimeter.


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## CntryBoy777

Well, ya may have been a day late, but obviously ya wasn't a dollar short...
It sounds like ya have a reason to get your "A** in Gear" now, cause those days just Fly by, and there will be days whose weather will be less desireable to be standing in while having to "Get R Done". Even tho it was just a "Deposit", ya are the Owner of what sounds like a really good Start...Congradulations!!...
I know how that Feels, and so Happy for ya...been a long time coming, but it's not a "Dream"...just pinch yourself...

@Pastor Dave , I am in failing health so, I am using what I have now to put the fencing in, because I won't be able to do next yr what I can this yr. I am setting it up so my wife can tend to the animals by herself very easily. I thank ya for thinking of me, but for plans to progress, there has to be a permanent fence....I just enjoy complaining about digging holes and physical labor, but there isn't anyone Forcing me to do so except for myself...


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## Baymule

Look on east Texas Craigslist. There was a pair of Old Spot cross pigs on there a few days ago.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> cause those days just Fly by, and there will be days whose weather will be less desireable to be standing in while having to "Get R Done"


Tell me about it! 

OK, you don't need to, I already told everyone about it in my journal last Nov/Dec.


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## Latestarter

And as promised: Pictures


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## TAH

You got some cute goats coming LS


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## frustratedearthmother

Nice!


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## CntryBoy777

Sure looks like a really good start LS...
I know ya will feel better with them there with ya, so ya can look out and see and hear them Begging for your attention.


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## Devonviolet

Hey! They look a lot like my 2 girls! And darned cute they are, too!

I have some pics. But can't post. We are picking up the sod cutter (ALL weekend!)to clear out the Bermuda Grass, so we can get our garden going!

Gotta run . . .


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## Bruce

The goats won't clear out the Bermuda grass?? What the heck are they good for?? 


How can I "like" @Latestarter's picture post multiple times? 
Fine looking animals there @goatgurl.


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## OneFineAcre

Congrats on the goats and pig
Better get fencing


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## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> The goats won't clear out the Bermuda grass?? What the heck are they good for??



Well, yes they would eventually kill off the Bermuda Grass. But, the big area we need cleared would likely take them the better part of a year to actually eat it down far enough to actually kill the roots. And even then it wouldn't get it all. There is a patch of Bermuda in the goat paddock, that has survived 2 years.


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## NH homesteader

need better pics of the gilt! Haha being picky now? She's very GOS looking. They all look great! PB manchas?


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## Latestarter

Opened my electric bill for this past month... $205.00... wondering if they didn't charge me for the neighbor's along with mine... At this rate it's making solar look a lot more attractive/affordable... Gonna go into max conserve mode here. Heat? Who needs heat? AC? Who needs AC? Guess I'll plan on extensive grilling also.

Stopped in at the trailer place to price out getting my trailer re-wired and the lights replaced and remounted in a different location. They said ~$65.00 and they could do it but shop is closed weekends so they won't be able to get on it till Monday. I'll drop it off tomorrow. While there I priced out a 16' x 8' 6" wide livestock trailer, dual axle, rated to 7500 pounds (should hold 3-4 adult steers), my truck is rated to tow up to 8600#. Not as cheap as the one @AClark got, but in a lot better condition (new)... just a bit under $5K. I could buy a 14' x 8' wide for about a grand less. Amazing how 6" in width & 2' in length can make the trailer so much bigger inside.

Spent time on the computer today drawing out the initial fencing & pricing it out, then walked the "to-be" fence line. All things considered, only about 1/2 of it is going to be a bear... clearing brush, blow downs, old fencing and T posts, etc. Looking at ~1450' total. Going to need ~12 6" x8' corner posts, 3 16' gates, ~125 7' T-posts, and more. I will subdivide this first part down into 3 1 acre paddocks later after I get the barn started later. Fun, fun, fun... starting tomorrow. Guessing ~$2,500-3K in parts to finish this bit.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya haven't given up on that Tractor have ya? I kinda thought you were getting it right off....not that I'm trying to spend your money for ya...just was wondering.


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## Mike CHS

Teresa did the tally tonight for what we are now working on and it isn't cheap but it is cheaper than hiring it done. I posted before that we got an estimate for 1000' that came out to $4500.  We will have $3200 for 3 acres (1400' in length) including 5 twelve foot and 1 man gate and that includes hiring the neighbor boys to help with the T-posts.


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## Baymule

Fencing is a lot of work, but it is satisfying work. Something to be proud of. Nice looking goats, I know you'll be glad to bring them home!


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## CntryBoy777

About that light bill, LS, is propane or natural gas available there?....seems it would be cheap down there, and could save ya some major bucks on electric. Ya could be losing a bunch with the hot water tank...with all those midnite Swims and soaks in the Hot tub. The effiency of that heat pump won't do ya a bit of good either. Does your electric include water?....ya can do quite a bit with gas, but change over isn't cheap either....may be a Target when ya have to start replacing things.


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## Bruce

Are they direct reading your meter @Latestarter? For a long time here they read one month, guesstimated the next. The guesstimated was ALWAYS too high. What is your electric rate and what other non usage charges are there? We pay $0.443/day just to be connected to the grid, $014.848/kWH used plus $0.01281/kWh used (Energy efficiency program charge) plus $1 for the energy assistance program. If your prices are similar, that would be almost 1,200 kWh for the month. Probably not that hard to hit if you have an electric range and electric hot water and the heat pump and the hot tub.

If you have electric heat, might as well just turn your wallet upside down in the electric company's front office.



Devonviolet said:


> Well, yes they would eventually kill off the Bermuda Grass. But, the big area we need cleared would likely take them the better part of a year to actually eat it down far enough to actually kill the roots. And even then it wouldn't get it all. There is a patch of Bermuda in the goat paddock, that has survived 2 years.



Clearly you need 

....

wait for  it 

....

MORE GOATS!  



Latestarter said:


> All things considered, only about 1/2 of it is going to be a bear



Oh good, ONLY half 
I sure hope it works out to be way less than that.


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## animalmom

Nice goaties @Latestarter!  Love, love, love the wattles on one of your "girls".  Congrats!!!!!


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## babsbag

If you are on a well be prepared for that electric bill to go UP when you get critters.  Ours was well over 400.00 a month before Solar. And another 125.00 for propane for cooking and hot water and we heat with wood and cool with an evaporative cooler.  And the hot tub is turned off. $205.00 would have been a blessing and cause for celebration. 

It is my well that eats my power.


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## OneFineAcre

If $205 gave you a shock I suspect you will get a bigger shock when that AC starts kickin in the heat of a Texas summer


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## NH homesteader

Holy cow babs! I will never again complain about my electric bill! It's around $170 in the winter and in summer, a/c on all day long around $150. I thought that was bad!


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## Devonviolet

Our latest electric bill was $70. During the summer, our highest bill was $168. That was when we had several weeks, in a row of 100°+ temps.  We keep our thermostat set at 78-80°, depending on the humidity.  When I get to the point that I can't stand it, I will set it down to 74 or 75°.  That's usually when the humidity is high, and the AC running tends to dry the air out to make the higher temps tolerable, and then I turn it back up. 

Something the previous owner/builder did right is, he did spray foam insulation in the walls, floor joists & along the inside of the roof. That "envelope insulation" makes a huge difference in the utility bills.

We use propane (have a 500 gallon tank), for cooking & heating in winter. We fill it once a year, after it cools off in the Fall. This last time it was less than $300 to fill it.


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## OneFineAcre

My bills are a lot higher


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## dejavoodoo114

I want to thank you @Latestarter and @CntryBoy777 and the others on Latestarters thread who motivated ME to get out and get fencing done! Today was a great day for it here and it was catching up on this thread that sent me out and got 10 more posts in the ground. Thankfully we have a tractor with a 3-point so it took about 2 and a half hours to get them all set in. Now we get to work on cross bracing for gate and corners... And hanging a gate in the barn... and installing more latches... and..... It never ends!


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## CntryBoy777

Well @dejavoodoo114 , thanks for the acknowlegement...but, not sure what I did to inspire ya...but the end result is ya got 10 more done...me on the other hand only got 2 done today. That leaves 2 for tomorrow, but mine are by hand....I'd pay ya to use your tractor if ya was closer, but could probably get them dug before ya could get here.......


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## dejavoodoo114

You and others encouraging Latestarter got me out and working. I am so relieved that we have the pto driven post hole digger. Going through the rock and clay here without it is miserable.


----------



## Bruce

NH homesteader said:


> Holy cow babs! I will never again complain about my electric bill! It's around $170 in the winter and in summer, a/c on all day long around $150. I thought that was bad!


Might want to think about that when looking at places in TN. 

Our big hits in the summer are the pool pump and the dehumidifier in the basement, don't have A/C. Our "base load" (overnight in spring after heating season and before the pool and dehumidifier are running) is about 0.5 kWH

Of course the base load is likely higher now with the electric fence running and I just installed a 5 cu ft chest freezer in the laundry room. The yellow tag on that said $27/year at $0.12/kWh. That could be close or really far off since there are so many variables such as the ambient temp, how many times you open it, how much stuff is in it, how often you put stuff in it, etc.


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## farmerjan

My electric runs about $75-100 in the summer and $150-200 in the winter.  I have elec hot water, the well pump (for the landlords cattle also), 2 infared heaters and a small oil filled "radiator type" in the bathroom in the winter, the oil furnace which needs elec to run, 3 freezers, electric stove which I use minimally as I have a small convection oven,  no a/c .  Plus the normal fridge, lights etc.  I don't think it is too bad.  The infared heaters do use some current but it cut my heating bill by nearly 2/3rds as the oil furnace is not efficient.  I was using at least 2 tanks (275 gal) of oil  and now don't use 200 gal a winter if that.


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## CntryBoy777

Well LS how did it go for ya today?....ya must have bypassed the computer for the Hot Tub...


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## Bruce

Yeah he's been kinda quiet since posting about the electric bill Friday. Must have worked himself a bit hard yesterday.


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## NH homesteader

Seriously... Goes to do some fencing and disappears.


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## Latestarter

Cost of first fencing parts: $2,788.30. Including 13; 6-7" posts, 2; 5-6" posts, 18; 4-5" posts, and 100; 7' T-posts (just a start), 4 rolls of 4"x4" goat fencing @ 48"x330'  ($235 ea), 12; 50"x16' cattle panels for housing (3 for goat hoop house), hog pen (6) and 3 for temp "adjustment period" & night time containment pen for goats & their hoop house, backed up to line fencing, 3; 16' "fenced" gates with all associated hardware, and the list continues... Should be getting my repaired/altered trailer back tomorrow... I hope.

edit to change from 8' to 7' T posts.


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## CntryBoy777

Most of what ya have listed isn't very light either, be careful and don't overdo it....I'm using 5" posts and got 6" posts one time and when I got home....by myself, I found out that 1 more inch sure weighs quite a bit More....barely got it to the hole.


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## babsbag

I have to ask...why are you using 8' T-posts?  Drive a few of those and you might change your mind. Hope you can get a truck or ladder into those areas you are fencing so you can reach the top of those posts.


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## CntryBoy777

Awww Babs he can stand on the trailer, truck bumper, or in the bed of his truck to get'em started....


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## Goat Whisperer

I'm wondering too Babs.


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## babsbag

I use 6' posts for 4' fence and they are more than sufficient. I have a few 7' but only because I got them used. No way am I going 8'


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## greybeard

I use lots of 8' T posts, but only in areas where the ground is always soft, like next to the ponds or down by the river.

As far as reach, the tee post drivers are 32" long. 96"-32" =64" means the handles of the driver are within easy reach of my arms. Just remember the put the driver on before you stand the post up in place.

For most applications tho 7' is plenty long, and I've had some pretty rough stock at times. Anything more than a few inches above the top of the wire is just holding up air.

You might check Mcoys Builders. Last time I was there, they had some really good RR cross ties for $16 ea. 8'x8"x9" and will last the rest of your life and then some. 
I put over 100 in the ground here for corners and mid fence H bracing. More than that of you count the ones I put in in 1965-66.


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## Latestarter

I'm using 6-7" x 8' wood posts for corners. The 2 5" are for where I need "H" braces and the 4" wood are for floating braces and the 2 "H"s. The T posts are 7' so I can get 2 feet in the ground and have 5 foot posts for 2 strands of hot wire (or 2 hot and a ground) on top above the 4' fence. So overall fence height will be 5' when done. Sorry about the typo above (8') I went and edited it to make it 7'.  None of the lines are accurate/straight/placed exactly, but are close renditions. The weird cut up top is for the stream, and the most difficult area to do will be that and the whole NW section/area. The rest is fairly simple/straight forward.

This is the initial planned pasture area I'm commencing working on right now to bring my initial animals home to. The goats will be in the holding area for at least a week while I get them and Mel accustomed to each other and make sure there aren't any issues. At night, Mel will have free access to the entire pasture but the goats will be inside the enclosure. During the day I'll be out in the pasture working on phase two, so the goats will be loose with Mel, & I'll be supervising them all while they (I'm sure) "help" me.






It will be further broken down later (like within 2-3 months) to something like this:





Then the "final" (still open to change) back field acreage will look something like this when finished (hopefully by year end). The white block is the proposed barn:


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## babsbag

Oh, I can reach the handles, but they are at nose level and downward driving is hard at that height. But getting it on the post is tough. 

Glad to hear they are only 7'


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## Baymule

For tall T-posts, I lean the post over, slide on the driver then stand it up. I grab the bottom of the pipe driver instead of the handles and slam it down. Holding the handles slams my shoulders and back too much, I let go of the pipe right before contact.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> For tall T-posts, I lean the post over, slide on the driver then stand it up. I grab the bottom of the pipe driver instead of the handles and slam it down. Holding the handles slams my shoulders and back too much, I let go of the pipe right before contact.


Absolutely!! Allow the inertia of the driver to do the work. 
I won't go into it here, but both the easiest and most difficult tpost I ever drove were from a boat. Believe me, you learn quickly what Newton's Third Law means.


----------



## Mini Horses

I'm glad to see you finally took the plunge & bought those animals!!!   I was beginning to think you may have decided to turn that "farm dream" into  just a place to hunt with an LGD house dog.   

Now you  can start to work your butt off again....have things you will be required to do (chores!) and live life as you thought you wanted.   Now, it's ok to decide in a few years that you no longer want the chores BUT, at least you DID IT.    

And a question -- do you plan to milk the goaties?    You know that the pigs and chickens absolutely love the xtra milk plus, it's good for them.    Will you add bees again?

My DD who lives on my farm, used to have bees....stopped, had a child.   The hive I had (as a 2nd for her) was given to a beekeeper, as I wasn't going to work it.  Last couple yrs I've offered to buy, she said no.  Couple weeks ago she said "I ordered a hive!"   I have been told the bees will be picked up March, already ordered.    This is her idea, so should go well.   I hunted out the big box of her "bee equipment" she had up here in the house storage.  Next year we will probably have 3 hives & honey for sale.......right next to the goat milk soap we make, & beautiful free range eggs.

She doesn't milk, I don't tend bees.   But we will both work with the "products" once extracted.     Guess I'll keep watch for honey extractors, etc.  to be ready.   Beewax & honey products?  Maybe.   My garage is large enough for all.  Never had a car in it!


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## Bruce

The man has a plan! The "some day farming" will be soon now 

Don't forget to trench for the barn water and power BEFORE you raise the fence unless you plan to run it under a gate


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## greybeard

..And try to get those outer fences right on the surveyed property line, even if it takes a little longer. 
I cannot emphasize how many times I have seen small farmsteaders build a perimeter fence with easy and quickness in mind, with the _"I'll put it where it's supposed to be later"_ and then never do, causing huge headaches down the road for themselves, their neighbors, their heirs, or the next owner.


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## Latestarter

I'm super pissed at myself and a stupid driver right now... Just got home from the final trip of the day carrying fencing supplies to the house. I had a pallet with 4 rolls (1000 pounds+) of fencing in the bed of the truck and I didn't strap it in place.  Now you know why I'm pissed at me. I'm pissed at an a$$hole driver right now because for no apparent reason, on an empty road, he decided to come to a complete stop, IN THE LANE OF TRAFFIC!!! Jackwad driving a brand new sub compact car with temp tags. I tried to slow slowly without luck and the fencing fell forward and exploded my rear windshield into the truck. &*)I%(*@*%&_   and   #*^%_())!#%^ as well! Slivers of glass down inside the back of my T shirt and into my pants. Felt it hit me in the back of the head like shrapnel. The fencing is resting in the lower rim of the rear windshield opening right now. The inside of the truck is covered in broken/shattered glass.

I had one more load of cattle panels to pick up and bring home, called the TSC and talked to the guy I'd been working with and said I'm not gonna be able to get them for a few days now. He said no problem. So tomorrow we're supposed to have rain (of course) and potential T-storms (I can only hope). Too dark to unload the fencing in the pasture right now so need to do that tomorrow then call safelight or someone and find out how much this is gonna cost me.

One good bit of savings today, Instead of buying the gates I need at TSC, I went over to Priefert and found out they had a factory 2nds store. Went there to get the gates instead at about 1/2 the price I would have paid. and there's nothing apparent wrong with the ones I picked out. Also got discounts on the fencing and the wood 6" posts due to quantity. Thank god for the AG exemption as well so no sales tax. altogether saved me about $600.00

Oh wait... I DIDN'T save $600 after all, because now I have to replace a window!


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## NH homesteader

Uh oh... Damage?


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## Goat Whisperer

That doesn't sound good, hope everything is okay. That sucks.


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## Baymule

Hope you didn't throw the load forward and beat your truck up. I am thinking more stuff, but you are already pi$$ed,  so I won't pour gasoline on the fire.


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## Mike CHS

Folks give me a hard time because we even tie down rolls of wire laying flat in the trailer.  Sorry it ended the day on a bad note.


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## HomeOnTheRange

Ouch!  Sounds more like a Friday the 13th than a Monday!


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## Baymule

I keep a 50' piece of nylon rope behind the back seat of DH's truck....which reminds me, I need to put it back.....I ran it around my mule's butt to "encourage" her to load in a trailer..... bye bye mule.....  He used to make fun of me, but I spider web stuff when I tie it down. I must be doing something right.....


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## norseofcourse

Oh wow, glad you were not hurt - it could have been worse!  We have our share of idiot drivers up here in Ohio, too


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## frustratedearthmother

OOPS!


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## Latestarter

For those who wish to see.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure am thankful the Fence didn't hit the back of your Head. Those drivers are coast to coast, and border to border....I saw "Red" just reading thru there...and having Flashbacks. As long as you are fine, probably with some imbedded slivers ya haven't noticed yet...and ya would've payed the $$ on material anyway.....ya really didn't lose anything either. Wouldn't think a rear window would cost $600...sure hope ya can get it dispersed in the field before the rain moves in, so ya can get it under cover.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I went over to Priefert and found out they had a factory 2nds store.


It's been a while since I've been up there but they also have returns on all kinds of stuff. Rough stock panels, sweeps, head gates..I looked at a (only slightly) damaged SO4 there I could have gotten for nearly $1500 discount, but I was in my wife's car and someone else scooped it up before I could.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Jackwad driving a brand new sub compact car with temp tags.



Lucky you didn't hit him. PoPo would have been called and it would have been deemed your fault, and you would be lucky not to get a ticket for an unsecured load to boot. and if you don't know, 48" is the max allowed to extend beyond your rear bumper and they count the lowered tailgate as part of the 48".
2' over hang on the sides is max. 4' beyond the back of the body of the vehicle, you are required to flag the end of the load in daylight hours and have additional lights if it is transported at night. 

547.382. LIGHTING EQUIPMENT ON PROJECTING LOADS. (a) A vehicle transporting a load that extends to the rear at least four feet beyond the bed or body of the vehicle shall display on the extreme end of the load at the times specified in Section 547.302(a):
(1) two red lamps visible at a distance of at least 500 feet from the rear;
(2) two red reflectors that indicate the maximum width and are visible at nighttime at all distances from 100 to 600 feet from the rear when directly in front of lawful lower beams of headlamps; and
(3) two red lamps, one on each side, that indicate the maximum overhang and are visible at a distance of at least 500 feet from the side.
(b) At all other times, a vehicle transporting a load that extends beyond the vehicle's sides or more than four feet beyond the vehicle's rear shall display red flags that:
(1) are at least 12 inches square; 
(2) mark the extremities of the load; and 
(3) are placed where a lamp is required by this section


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## Latestarter

Well, they say most accidents happen within 10 miles of home. I was ~7 miles away. I would not have hit the dipstick... would have gone off the road first. Well aware of who gets the blame in a rear end accident. Thanks for all the other rules/regs. I knew about the 4' limit. They told me about that when I was pricing tractors (the bush hog can hang off the end of the trailer). You should have put a down payment on the S04 and come back to get it after. You're right, they had a lot of stuff over there. I have a feeling I'll be back over there again.


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## babsbag

OUCH!!! Glad you are ok.


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## frustratedearthmother

Glad you're ok.  Hopefully you can get all the glass outta your seat...could cause some uncomfortable problems later.


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## samssimonsays

Oh no! So glad you're ok! That could have been much worse!


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## ragdollcatlady

So sorry about the accident! 

Glad you are OK!

In the end that is all that really matters.... but I feel your frustration at the damage and trouble to fix it.


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## Hens and Roos

What a bummer!  Glad you are okay!


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## farmerjan

Sorry LS; So glad you were not hurt. 
Had someone do that to me not too long ago, but luckily I didn't do any damage inside the car although everything went flying.  People behind me went off the road to stop and not hit me.  Then the ones in front of me got out of their car to ask some directions...,in the middle of the road.... I went off and  told them what I thought of their thoughtlessness, no I didn't know where the F***the address they were looking for was, and that they ought to have their liscense taken away.  Then I called the sheriff's office and told them they needed to come and escort these A$$Holes  off the road.  The guy behind me,  that went off the road couldn't believe it either.  The sheriff's office asked if it was an accident and I told them no, but for the grace of God; but that there might be one if someone didn't explain to these clueless people that you could not just stop in the middle of the road to look at a map to figure out where you were going.  They must have thought I needed to go to the mental hospital.  They actually sent someone right away, thinking I was going to commit murder, and the guy behind me in the ditch, still there since we had to get him help to get out, and both of us told the sheriff and gave them a liscense plate number and make of the car.  

I don't even think they could've gotten their liscense out of a Cracker Jacks box....

Lord give us strength


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## babsbag

I have a friend whose wife was the victim of a stupid stop in the middle of the road driver but she was hauling horses. She was not OK, the horses were not ok, and she did hit them. She was driving in fog and suddenly there was a parked vehicle in the middle of her lane. I get going slow in fog, I even understand stopping, on the SIDE of the road. Good grief.


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## goatgurl

oh my goodness LS so glad you are ok, man if that wire had slammed into your head instead of the glass and headrest you would have really been hurt.  idiot people!  hope you get all the glass out of all the places it landed.  what a mess.  did you get the truck out of the rain before it hit last night?  we are finally getting a nice slow soaking rain up here.  looks like the  you have your work cut out for you with all the wire and posts.  gonna be fun.  you take care of yourself and don't work to hard.


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## Latestarter

Thanks all. No, I'm fine, the truck took more damage than I at first saw/thought. The wire bundles hit the steel of the cab right above the window first and bent that in almost 2 inches at the center of the window frame. Thus begins my today saga... Called a glass place 1st thing, yes they had the replacement, no they weren't busy, yes they had an inside bay to do the work (rain threatening), OK, I'll be headed that way after the big squall line coming passes through. Went and got the rolls of fence out of the bed and dropped them strategically in the pasture. Still no squall line and sky doesn't look too threatening to the west so I figure I'll chance it...   Shoulda known better...

So as I get out on the main road and start accelerating it's directly into an increasing amount of rain... I take the turn to drive up through the city center (fastest way) and feel a shimmy and vibration developing and starting to pull to the right all within 100'  so, I realize I've blown a tire... in the pouring rain, with no rear window... 

I creep into the first parking lot available & it's on my left (one way streets through town) and get out figuring tire changing isn't going to get done itself and as I pull out the jack I turn around and there's a Hispanic tire shop 1/2 a block up on the right side. No brainer, throw the jack and stuff back in and drive/limp across the street and pull in under their overhang. Ask can they change it, yes, they can. Can they repair it? No they can't. I ask why and the guy sticks a pry bar into a 2" gash through the sidewall. So they drag out an old used tire that will fit and replace my tire with that one. I ask do they accept credit cards, no, cash only  So one of them drives me in his truck up to an ATM to get cash out. Cost was $35, I gave them $40. While they're changing it, I call the glass place and tell them, I'm delayed with a flat but will get there as soon as I can.

Get to the glass place and the guy rolls up the door as I'm pulling in and waves me inside. This is when I find out the roof line is bent... I ask can they pull it out enough to seat the glass without putting "bend pressure" on it causing it to break again; they say yes. Enough so it won't leak? yes. OK, go for it.  Guy comes walking in to inform me that my cab light isn't working (you, know, the one I finally repaired after getting two warnings about it?). I told him to just put it back and leave it I'll deal with that later. I asked and he said he'll seal it so water doesn't leak (yeah, the bent rear sill left a nice open area under the bottom of it). Almost $400 later they've done what they can and I have a rear window. The upper frame isn't straight, but bowed in a bit still in the center, but sealed, so shouldn't leak. Was told I can take the tape off tomorrow when it's had time to dry.

So, I now have 2 different tires on the front, which is a no-no as it can cause disintegration of the 4 wheel drive system due to uneven sides. So off to Discount tire I go to get 2 new tires... They don't carry the brand I have on there (Hankook) and they won't honor the warranty as they were purchased through Peerless tire (none here). Of what they have, the most popular brand/design/in my size they are out of and can get them in by Thursday... That won't work, 2nd choice they had so that's what I got. Nice tread pattern and 10 ply to boot. The existing ones are 6 ply. SO another $480 spent and they put the new tires on the rear, switched the rear tires to the front and I kept the one remaining Hankook just in case I lose one of the remaining two for some reason. They still had/have almost 3/4 of their tread left.

It has been a very expensive 24 hours. The main serious weather stayed south of me, though I am hearing some thunder at the moment. The line has moved almost all into Louisiana at this point. I hope all of our south TX contingent made out OK. Looked mighty nasty down your way. For our Miss and south central TN folks, hope you're getting ready for it later today. Could be bad...

Hey there @goatgurl Was starting to wonder and hope nothing bad had happened when I haven't seen you on since my visit. Hope all is well. How are my girls doing?


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## Devonviolet

Wow, LS!!!  I'm so sorry to hear about the rolls of wire shattering your back window! So glad you didn't get hurt by all that schrapnel.

You have quite an aggressive plan there! I wish we could give you a hand. But, we have our hands full here trying to get our garden going, plus getting ready for two new goats to kid soon.  DH is feeling a bit overwhelmed.


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## Latestarter

One foot in front of the other... will take whatever time it does, but I'll go as fast as I can to get it done. Have 4 lovelies waiting up in AR for me to bring them home.   Tell your DH to just stop every now and again and take a few nice slow deep breaths... It will all happen, even if not "right this minute".


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## Devonviolet

I try to keep reminding him of that, but he doesn't always hear me. He's been a worrier from way back before I knew him, and we've been married almost 18 years.


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## greybeard

A little lightening here early this morning, maybe an inch of rain. 
Fort Bend county got hit pretty good I hear several tornadoes sighted or on the ground. No serious injuries or fatalities that I've heard of. 

Tilled 1/2 my garden yesterday--won't be able to return to it for a couple of weeks at the most now that it's rained. 


No problem. H-E-B is still open.


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## Baymule

I'm dying here  I know it had to get your goat (I just HAD to say that) but sitting in my recliner, looking out at the cold wind and rain, that is bust out laughing FUNNY.

So.......what'cher doing NEXT WEEK???


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## Southern by choice

@Baymule  Bay! You are terrible ... (-ly funny)

LS-   oh my, I sure hope that is it for awhile... my goodness!


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## goatgurl

@NH homesteader i'm stealing LS's journel and adding a picture of the spotted gilt you asked for.  not the best but will have to do.  and some different pictures of the 3 girls he will be taking home when he is finished working himself to a frazzle with the fencing.  black girl is bang, brown and white is dot and tan girl is viola.  viola is the one with the mismatched earrings.  cutest set of wattles you've ever seen.


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## NH homesteader

Good looking starter package! Love the gilt!


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## Southern by choice

@goatgurl  and @Latestarter  the second doe (red Chamoise) looks like my Zephyr... just with wattles!  Viola!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
Bang and Dot are pretty! 

So because I haven't been on I have missed everything! I guess @Devonviolet  got her goats....  I better go check out her journal!

Goatgurl- how many goats do you have left?


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## Baymule

That reminds me, I saw a spotted red and black hog, dead, on the side of the road. All I could think of was, What dummy hit that block of meat and DROVE OFF and LEFT IT???? Wasteful stupid idiot. You can bet'cher sweet bootie that if I had hit that hog and messed up my car, I would be hauling that durned hog home in the trunk! Skinned out, bad car-hit chunks discarded and the rest iced down, that was a lot of meat that somebody left to rot and buzzards. Ok, rant over.

LS, that is a nice trio of does you  have!


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## babsbag

Nice looking goats. Nothing like a herd to make you get fencing done.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> That reminds me, I saw a spotted red and black hog, dead, on the side of the road. All I could think of was, What dummy hit that block of meat and DROVE OFF and LEFT IT???? Wasteful stupid idiot. You can bet'cher sweet bootie that if I had hit that hog and messed up my car, I would be hauling that durned hog home in the trunk! Skinned out, bad car-hit chunks discarded and the rest iced down, that was a lot of meat that somebody left to rot and buzzards. Ok, rant over.


The adrenaline flow in blunt force trauma deaths taints the meat, and you wouldn't get much good meat anyway. Most hogs killed on the highway get rolled under the vehicle or slung a ways and most of the muscle is bloodshot.  Far easier ways to get bigger portions of good pork from feral hogs than butcher one from the side of the highway even if you saw it killed. 
I cleaned a deer I saw get hit one time. I 'may' have gotten 5 lbs of good venison from it. Lesson learned.


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## NH homesteader

See how much money farming costs you? And you don't even have animals yet!!

I've eaten roadkill moose but there's a lot of meat on a moose!


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## CntryBoy777

The degree of Hunger changes one's perspective...


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## Bruce

Oh man @Latestarter that SO SUCKS! 

The glass shouldn't be sharp right? Or are only windshields 'special' glass?

But, um, er, you now have tires on the truck that will be good for many years and a quality spare right??? 

I hope those holes are easy digging to compensate you for all the pain (physical and monetary) and lost time.


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## Baymule

greybeard said:


> The adrenaline flow in blunt force trauma deaths taints the meat, and you wouldn't get much good meat anyway. Most hogs killed on the highway get rolled under the vehicle or slung a ways and most of the muscle is bloodshot.  Far easier ways to get bigger portions of good pork from feral hogs than butcher one from the side of the highway even if you saw it killed.
> I cleaned a deer I saw get hit one time. I 'may' have gotten 5 lbs of good venison from it. Lesson learned.



I've had road kill deer before and got enough meat to make it worthwhile. Sure, gotta toss some, but it left enough to put in the freezer. That was a good sized hog, surely there would have been enough for some sausage?? LOL


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Oh man @Latestarter that SO SUCKS!
> 
> The glass shouldn't be sharp right? Or are only windshields 'special' glass?


Back and side glasses generally are tempered and don't have the 3 piece laminate-between-tempered-glass  like a front windshield does but the tempered glass from the sides and rear still doesn't splinter into little sharp pointed shards. They are designed to break into hundreds of little chunks about like a coarse rock salt. Broken back and side windows usually end up with a seat and floor full of this stuff:






Tempered glass is very hard to break compared to ordinary home type glass of the same thickness. 

Some auto manufacturers are now making side glass with the laminate inside--usually on higher $$$ vehicles


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## CntryBoy777

Something else about the glass is, if the side windows are up, then there is a vacuum that is created within the vehicle and any breakage of a window other than the windshield will blow across the vehicle. I learned this when I was with the emergency services group with the sheriff's department during rescue class. Whenever the vehicle has to be cut into, the windshield must be vented to prevent this from occurring. That is why I always ride down the road with my window cracked just a bit. Also, if under water ya can open the door too.


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## Bruce

Good tips @CntryBoy777


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## Latestarter

OK, first day of all out fencing is done for me... Now I remember why I procrastinated as long as I could. Managed to set the first gate "H" posts and latch post and the first run corner post down at the end of the run (~220') then sunk 12 T posts. Tomorrow's plan is to complete the "H", do the floating braces @ the strike post & down at the corner, then start the posts ("H" and strike) for the next gate and next run (back line) then finish up the first line T posts and start the T posts on the 2nd line. I didn't take any pictures yet but will when I have more accomplished. I know I made pretty good progress today, but it doesn't seem like it with as much as there is left to do. 

So doing the posts (why did I get all 6-7" posts!?) was not as easy as I'd expected. The soil is packed red clay with lots of small gravel mixed in. It sure would have been a lot easier if I'd had an auger. Considered going to rent one but then after spending all the cash I have recently, I decided against it... In addition, my arthritis kicked into gear and my right hand has basically no strength to try and work with an auger. I'm sore and tired and have already taken a muscle relaxer for my aches and pains. It should kick in soon. I'll be back at it again tomorrow... I have goats and a pig waiting on me to get things ready to bring them home.


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## frustratedearthmother

Are you using a clamshell digger?  The trick to that clay is to keep it wet.  It's messy, but it makes it easier to get through and helps it slide off the digger.


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## Goat Whisperer

Wow- I am so sorry about the truck incident! That is terrible! 

I was going to suggest renting an auger… but I can see why you decided against it. When we have several holes to dig, we rent an auger. Cost around $70 and well worth it. Dang shame that won't work for you.


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## CntryBoy777

Well I think ya did pretty dang Good! It does make a difference between "Seeing it Done" in the head, and the old body and muscles "Performance". I have the same problem there. Just a bit longer and ya will be able to "Countdown" instead of looking at what is "Left". I didn't count the total til the end for that reason. 
Tho, it may cause ya some aches and pains now, you will feel good about your accomplishments while watching your animals in the place your sweat, blood, tears, and $$ provided for them.


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## Bruce

I'd say 4 posts set plus 12 T-posts is a pretty decent start!!

I've not used a power auger, why does the arthritis and lack of strength in your right hand make it something you can't use? I know my hands and elbows hurt a TON for several days from using the clamshell digger. If I could have used an auger I would have rented one no questions about it. But they don't care for rocks. 

Per @frustratedearthmother's comment, the wet clay was a REAL pain to dig. No sliding off, had to slam the digger on the ground several times to get the clay off (maybe not wet enough?) every time I had wet stuff.


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## Mike CHS

In places we have to dig manually we use the Digger/tamper bar to actually loosen the clay and the post hole digger to just take the dirt out of the hole.


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## Goat Whisperer

The vibration is one thing... and the fact that if you aren't strong enough to really hold it, you'll go flying... The top will try to spin if you aren't strong enough to hold it in place, even with the 1 man augers. Its also a balancing act, if you have the whole bit in the ground, you need to pull it STRAIGHT up,easier said than done. Those suckers can get heavy! Someone who is dealing with a weak hand wouldn't have a chance. Using these augers are harder than you think. But it can do it quickly!


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## Mike CHS

I used a power auger way back when I was power lifting and was 40 years old.  I wouldn't even consider it at my age now.


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## Bruce

@Latestarter needs to find a local friend to help with a 2 person auger. Or buy that tractor


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## frustratedearthmother

Yep - real wet is the key.  Wet enough that you are covered with the splashes.  If close enough to the source - I use the water hose to keep the hole darn near full of water - if not - I'll haul buckets of water to where I'm digging....    So glad I bought a tractor with 3 different sized augers!


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## Bruce

And how close is that tractor to @Latestarter?


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## Baymule

Ummm........Joe......we bought an auger at Harbor Freight for $200 and have used the you-know-what out of it......and @Devonviolet and her DH have one too.....

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-gasoline-auger-powerhead-with-6-in-bit-63022.html


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> The soil is packed red clay with lots of small gravel mixed in.


Welcome to the world of iron ore clay.


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## Baymule

Only those well acquainted with red iron ore clay would think that is funny.
snicker, snicker, giggle, guffaw.....


----------



## Latestarter

I've used the powered hand held augers before, single and two man. They generate a LOT of torque and the constant lifting to keep them from biting off more than you can chew (lift) would absolutely not agree with my back or my hand/wrist. If I had my son or a younger stronger guy to help, I would have rented one and done all the holes then returned it. So, yeah, I'm using a clamshell digger and it does the trick. It just takes a lot longer and I have to go a bit slower. I'll get it done, just might take a couple more days. It's a good upper body workout.

I took a muscle relaxer when I came in and it helped quite a bit. Sat in my recliner and dozed for a couple of hours (after my last visit here). Boy was I stiff when I woke up.  Now that I've been up for a couple of hours moving around, I'll be good to go. I'll be back at it tomorrow. I'm not as young or strong as I once was, but I can still get it done. Will just take longer   Need to work off some of these extra pounds too.

No call from the trailer place. Gotts check into that and see what's going on there. Still need to go pick up the cattle panels I paid for. Really want the trailer for those as I don't want to "spring load" them and have to make multiple trips w/just the pickup truck. Don't need to do any more damage to the truck. Need to buy some wire anyway to wire up the "H" braces and floating braces. Was considering just using some of the old (newer - not rusted) barbed wire that I'm going to remove when I fence the property boundary, but I don't really want to cut myself up into hamburger working with it.


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## HomeOnTheRange

Slow but steady is my motto.
Sounds like you are doing great @Latestarter!


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> . So, yeah, I'm using a clamshell digger and it does the trick. It just takes a lot longer and I have to go a bit slower. I'll get it done, just might take a couple more days. It's a good upper body workout.


I have a pair you can borrow--they have handles about 8' tall. They work a little different, with flat handles instead of round and the clamshell will open a lot wider than just 'straight'. You can dig a very deep hole without having to widen the top of the hole out. They're lineman diggers, from back before every electric company  bucket truck had an auger on it. Some of my corner posts I put in 5' deep or more.


----------



## Mini Horses

Yep...we're slower but just keep on "gettin up" 

At our age we don't have a meter running, we just have a younger memory of past work and our body isn't on the same clock anymore.....it's all good, it will get done.      I removed the hog panels & did a "semi" leveling job at the pigs field.  More to do & it will be there when I get back to it.  Rain today.   I work my jobs next four, so will do farm work again on Monday.  No problem.

Relax.


----------



## babsbag

I was doing some digging today putting in a 2x12 as a guide for barn doors and of course it had to be level and my ground isn't. I got one done and I was really glad it got dark so I had a reason to quit. It's tough getting old and I will be paying for it in the morning.


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## Hens and Roos

what about using a 1 man hydraulic posthole digger?  When DH put our fencing up, he rented one and was able to do about 20 posts in a couple hours.


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I have a pair you can borrow--they have handles about 8' tall. They work a little different, with flat handles instead of round and the clamshell will open a lot wider than just 'straight'. You can dig a very deep hole without having to widen the top of the hole out. They're lineman diggers, from back before every electric company  bucket truck had an auger on it. Some of my corner posts I put in 5' deep or more.



That would be nice! I had to make my holes wider than technically necessary since there is no way to pull the handles apart to "grab" once the digger is about 2' down.

I was SURE you were going to tell @Latestarter "good decision" on using real brace wire instead of barbed wire. The obvious danger aside, I think brace wire is a thicker (smaller gauge) than fence wire. You can now tell me I'm wrong


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## greybeard

Gauge size is gauge size regardless of the type wire.
Barb wire comes in 18, 15, and 12.5 ga. Some is HT, some is not. 

HT slick wire comes 18, 17, 16, 12.5 ga



I've used barbed wire on H braces before, but not often. HT (gaucho) barb wire is plenty stout to hold and H brace or H corner together, but it doesn't like to be twisted--breaks easily. I won't use the low carbon (old Red Brand type) wire for this because it just stretches too much.
You just have to be careful not to twist the gaucho too much. This one is barbed wire.






 I usually use 3/8 wire rope (cable) to hold my H corners or ends together.


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## greybeard

Other than my lineman diggers, there are some posthole diggers that help in getting the dirt ot without having to open the hole at the top. I have a pair, that I think I got from Tractor Supply. The drawback, is thatthey are heavy and the handles work opposite normal diggers--they have an extra pivot joint added and you close the handles to close the clamshell. Take some getting used to if you use regular diggers on the top part of the hole.
They look a lot like these--as you can see, the clamshell is almost closed and so are the handles. The dogleg (bend) in the handles also helps to not have to widen the top of the hole. Because the upper pivot is so far up, you can dig a lot deeper without interference from the sides of the top of the hole.









another type that help with this is a single pivot and work the same way as the traditional digger, but they too have an offset in the handles. This design goes back several decades..


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## Latestarter

Well, the clamshells I have are the old fashioned one pivot at the top of the clam design and since I bought 6-7" posts I have the hole almost a foot across at the top and have had no problem getting down 3 feet without widening the top of the hole. I don't need to go any deeper than that. The posts are 8' and I want 5' exposed. Since I only have ~13-14 posts to sink and have already done 4, I'll just continue on with what I've got.

I must have taken more out of myself yesterday than I thought. Didn't even use the jacuzzi last night, after a hard doze in the recliner I went to bed. Mel woke me up at 5am and I went back to try & sleep a couple more hours... woke up at 12:30 So I technically was in bed for over 12 hours... So anyway I didn't work on the fencing today. Instead I went over to the trailer repair place to see if they'd finished since they hadn't called. Turns out the trailer was done. They did an excellent job and exactly what I had asked of them. I now have back up lighting which the trailer didn't have before, the lights were moved to a higher, better protected spot, and they installed a standard 7 pin jack so I no longer need to use the 6 to 7 pin coupler. While there I asked about the 16' livestock trailers and found out that they actually rent them. He said it was about $65 a day and they do weekend deals as well. That's a heckofalot cheaper than 4-5 grand to buy one and the cost of registering it and keeping it on the road.

Since I now have my trailer back, I then went to TSC to pick up my 13 cattle panels. Man those things are springy! Got them home and all unloaded. 



greybeard said:


> I usually use 3/8 wire rope (cable) to hold my H corners or ends together.


  So it appears you just clamp the ends tight and then still twist it to tighten it? Have you used turnbuckles at all as tighteners? Is there a reason why/why not? Do you use the same 3/8ths cable at the bottoms of your floating braces as well? Figured I'd pop those Qs as I expect to be doing both types tomorrow.


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## Bruce

I wouldn't use a turnbuckle unless it is the type that locks. Some marine turnbuckles have lock nuts, some have holes in the threaded part for a cotter pin. Last thing you need is for them to loosen on their own. Of course you could drill a cotter pin hole in a 'non locking' turnbuckle. Another consideration is how much force can be put on the hook before it bends open. I don't know if they are rated for that but it would be something to look at. And another and  you might find that a proper sized turnbuckle might cost more than a ratchet strainer.

While twitch sticks are common and way cheaper that ratchet strainers, the strainers can "fine tune" the tension one tooth at a time and the wire is wound not twisted. You don't need to clamp the ends of the brace wire because you attach it to the strainer.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> So it appears you just clamp the ends tight and then still twist it to tighten it? Have you used turnbuckles at all as tighteners? Is there a reason why/why not? Do you use the same 3/8ths cable at the bottoms of your floating braces as well? Figured I'd pop those Qs as I expect to be doing both types tomorrow.


No turnbuckles here to speak of. We did use some a few on some major sized sawn telephone pole corners down on the river in the mid 60s, but they're more more of a pita and more expense than we wanted to put into the job. The ones we did use are still there and haven't loosened up. Get them tight enough, they won't back of any more than a bolt will in it's threaded hole.  I have over 25 gates here, each with a H on each side of it, probably a dozen true corners to boot. That's a lot of turnbuckles to buy.

You don't have to use cable for most corners--12ga HT wire is plenty strong.

Yes, I pull the slack out of the cable as best I can and just twist it with a 1/2 X18" long bolt. Bought a 1/2 pallet of thos bolts at an auction for $25 long ago. Nearly out of them now.  I use cable, simply because I had it, and I needed something that would hold up in times of flood water. The power company used to give it away when they replaced lines after a hurricane. If you didn't watch them, they'd just leave it laying around in your pasture and you'd find it when you mowed. 
I use 12ga HT slick wire on the floating braces, with strainers. It's a little hard to work with because of the stiffness. Hard to get started on the strainer spool. I usually put a bend in it about 1 1/2" from the end before I stick it in the hole of the spool--that gets it oriented in the right direction and keeps it in the hole for the first few clicks and you don't have a long bitter end sticking out to interfere with the spring on the strainer.
Don't forget to buy a tool that actually matches the strainers you buy--they aren't all the same. Found that out the hard way and trying to tighten them with a crescent wrench is not fun.

I have to have stouter fences here than most backyard farms would need due to the stock we've had and because I have floodwater every year. Wire can't be loose and the corners can't give. Even then, flood water gives me trouble sometimes.


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## Latestarter

Thanks Greybeard, that helps. Thankfully I don't have to deal with flood waters, but I do have the occasional "river" running through the property that has piled stuff up against the fences that are here. That's with it presently being barbed wire... I can only imagine how much crap is going to float into and get caught by the goat fencing.   Will deal with it as needed I guess.


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## greybeard

Depending on how wide and how deep the "river' is, there are ways to deal with it even with field fencing. None are perfect.  I always reccomend that people go down to those kind of areas and get an eyeball on them DURING times of flow--it's the only way of really knowing what one is up against. And even if there is no debris in the water flow, the energy of moving water against a fence of any kind can still be significant.  I use wooden posts in those areas, but the area in the picture is an outlier--water flowed across about 30 acres, impacting 3 different fences.   I did notice the offset you have in your plan in order to stay away from that area for now. Not seeing it, it's hard to suggest a solution, but if it's just a wide and relatively shallow swag, you may be able to put some tile or culverts in, and cover them once you get a tractor and some equipment to work with.


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## Baymule

Sometimes after a hard day of work, you have to take the next day off to rejuvenate. It's called survival of the un-fittest.  I'm taking today off......


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## Devonviolet

I've been watching this discussion with interest, because we are badly needing to get some fencing in.  Although, fortunately, we don't  have to worry about flowing water like you two do (@Latestarter & @greybeard).

I am curious about a flooding problem, that indirectly affects us, though.  The neighboring farm has a road running through it, which floods when we have a couple weeks of heavy rain in a row.  The end of 2015 was like that. 

This farm has a series of ponds, that are the result of rainwater runoff, from a hayfield upstream.  In 2015, the ponds overflowed, causing the road to flood.  Along the road, that flooded, there was an h-post, that had 8" posts in concrete. Those two big posts floated right out of the ground. They are still there. So, every time I drive on that road I see them.  It amazes me that such big posts -* in concrete* - could float out of the ground!  Can you explain that?  It seems to me, the concrete would keep the post in the ground.


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## greybeard

I've never had one float out, and some of mine have been submerged within inches of the top of the post so I dunno, but my big posts are all 4' deep or deeper.  You can see one of those larger posts down the line in the pic I posted a few posts up. If not for one of those every 100' and the tightness of the wires, that fence would have been laid over. Water certainly got over the top (5th) wire. 

I have posts right down at water's edge of my ponds and they have never come up during high water either. Probably accurate to say that 50% or more of my property and it's fencing has seen 3-4-5' of water on it several times most years. I've never had a fence fail due to high water. 
(falling trees are a different story)


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## Devonviolet

Now that you mention it, @greybeard, I don't think those posts were in a full 3'.  I'll have to check the next time we go by there. We always go down a full 3' with our fence posts.

The previous owner put the ones, around the chicken yard, down 18" and they aren't very firm. We have had to reinforce a few, for gate posts, with 3' deep posts right next to them, to make sure they were strong enough for LGDs and goats.  Two of the corner posts will come out of the ground if you pull on them.  We found that out by trying to use them to stretch new fencing.


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## Bruce

Sounds like all the posts here put in by the prior owner @Devonviolet. He didn't put them in much deeper than where the pointed end was the full diameter of the post. 

Given @Southern by choice had a T-post BROKEN by her LGDs, I would not trust your existing posts to contain an LGD, the goats or keep out any halfway decent sized predator unless you have hotwire on them that the animals will touch before they can put pressure on the fence.


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## greybeard

Must have not been much of a tpost or was defective if a dog can break it. I broke one, but it was from hanging it with a bush hog. Had the top of a dead oak tree trunk fall directly on another one. Drove it down till about 3 ft was sticking out and turned into a rough 'Z' shape. I pulled it out with a post jack and tied the wire back to it.

There are some cheap ones out there that TSC type places used to sell..they bend easily, but don't break. Low carbon mild steel.


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## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> Sounds like all the posts here put in by the prior owner


Yikes, Bruce!  I thought 18" was cutting it short! I'm surprised your fence is even standing!  Or is it?  

Early on, when we first moved here, we hired a guy, who supposedly knew what he was doing. He didn't last long . . . told us he would be here at 8:00 AM, to get an early start on the job, but repeatedly didn't show up. Then he couldn't understand why I fired him.   Anyway, he was a "fencing expert". He insisted we only needed to put 6" fence posts in 12" deep. Since they were so big, they didn't need to go in any deeper. 

@greybeard, this afternoon, we went by the h-post, that had floated out. It turned out it was 6" posts that were set in concrete, it looks like 18" deep.





Note the great "fix" . . . two t-posts, to replace an h-post. No wonder this guys fencing is leaning all along the road. He has heifers getting out all the time.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds and looks like the "Expert" may be akin to that guy there....


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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> @greybeard, this afternoon, we went by the h-post, that had floated out. It turned out it was 6" posts that were set in concrete, it looks like 18" deep.
> View attachment 28019
> 
> Note the great "fix" . . . two t-posts, to replace an h-post. No wonder this guys fencing is leaning all along the road. He has heifers getting out all the time.


Looks like something (cattle) put their heads under the horizontal brace and just walked thru and pulled them up with their backs or necks. We had an old Braford bull years ago that learned how to pop the tee post clips off tee posts the same way, pulling the wire up and squeezing under. If posts are going to be cemented in, the hole needs to be slightly belled toward the bottom. Like this:  / \
Posts heaving out of the ground from frost is a problem way up north, but not in E Texas.


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## Devonviolet

That does make sense, @greybeard. However, the dairy farmer told me they floated out.  As you drive up the road, there are two other h-posts laying on the ground, right by the culvert, where the pond runoff crosses the road, when it floods.


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## Bruce

I'm going with @greybeard's guess. I don't think posts float out unless the water is real deep and the ground really loose. And I see that the concrete wasn't even tightly adhered to the post, see how half of it is cracked off and lying on the ground?

I've watched my neighbor's alpaca go back in the field (when I go over and play herd dog) by going under the lowest hotwire tape. It is probably 2' off the ground and if the fence is on, his fiber is keeping him from getting shocked. The tape isn't real tight and he just sticks his head under and lifts it as he walks under. I can see a 2,000 pound bovine lifting that H brace as easily as I pull the posts that are no more than 18" in.

I pulled the small diameter pointed posts (nothing larger than 3" max) in the field that that were holding hotwire (well except for those that had already fallen over). But this picture is indicative of how well the 5" posts were put in to make the riding ring. Some are pretty stable and others, well not so much



Note the first post past the closest one, it wasn't rotten. This, you see, is how one makes a 5' tall fence with 6.5' posts.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya doing okay there LS?....just checking on ya, haven't seen ya around in a bit....wouldn't want ya having any trouble there by yourself....


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## Latestarter

Doing OK. Thanks for asking. Not getting done what I want and need to get done. Been gray/damp/foggy and wet here. Got blasted this am ~4:30 by a huge T-storm. Supposed to have more of the same off & on all day. Still sprinkling right now... lousy weather to be digging post holes or slamming in T posts. Next few days should be sunny, warm, "dry" (will believe that when I finally see it) and should be able to get more accomplished. Seeing the weather CA is dealing with, I suppose I shouldn't complain.  And then, I DID move here because there wasn't a "water issue" and they "got rain". Yeah... we get rain here alright... Most of the heaviest rain has stayed south of I-20 and I'm just south of I-30 (further north), so again, I can't complain as those further down south like @frustratedearthmother @Ferguson K & @greybeard are getting hammered a lot worse than I am. I "understand" that as "spring" progresses the heavier rain bands move north over time and in a month, the heavier rains will be falling up my way rather than down south.

My daughter is coming for a week visit and has changed her dates. The thing is, her visit includes me going to CO to pick her up and bring her here, then delivering her back there. I don't mind and am glad she's coming! But it does take time to recover from these road trips, not to mention the away "road time" lost. I'll be leaving Mel here to protect the place while I'm gone so have to make it a quick round trip up and back. She'll be bringing her little dog with her for the visit which is a main reason (along with funds) she isn't flying. I have no issues with that either. And Mel and I both enjoy her dog Teddy's presence and play time.

I had really hoped and anticipated getting the initial pasture fencing completed, holding pen set up and housing structure completed as well as the hog pen completed in time to get my goats (and future bacon) here before kidding time. As I recall from my discussions with @goatgurl the does I'm buying are due some time between late March and April. I don't know the actual due dates and I'm not sure that she does either and I understand it's not a good idea to move pregnant does too close to their kidding date for fear of miscarriage/pregnancy abort. 

Had figured to go pay my H2O bill today, only to realize it's a Fed holiday, so the office will be closed. I can pay online or by phone but they charge a "convenience fee" to do that and I won't pay a "fee" to pay a bill. I kinda think it's ludicrous to charge somebody extra for paying their bill... I mean really? Come on! And paying online has been around for a decade or more... it's not like "something new and expensive" to set up. Also, as a govt entity, they should be able to set it up in house at virtually no cost. Ah well, there's always "tomorrow".


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## Bruce

Look at it this way @Latestarter, the time you spend ferrying your daughter in for a visit will be returned with interest: an extra body to help put in the fence  

Seems they like to charge a fee to pay online because you have to use a CC which hits THEM with a fee. Can you setup your online banking to pay those bills? We have several going that way such as the phone bill, I just have to edit it since the darn thing changes up and down every month and there aren't ANY charges based on variables such as minutes used, etc. I don't get it. Anyway, the CU sends a check to some people we pay and does electronic transfer for others.


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## CntryBoy777

Well it is good to hear you are okay. Sorry bout the rain there, I know the battle to get things accomplished, for sure. Great to hear about the visit, but the miles and time can really wear and tear on us as we age. I get wore out just driving for 2-3hrs when we go to Southaven or Batesville shopping anymore. Sure hope ya are able to get a good portion of your "Wish List" done before the moisture moves to the north shortly.
I was just concerned about ya, and ya are usually around, but I know ya been busy and being by yourself with physical labor, things can happen pretty quickly....I know from experience, so that was my reasoning anyway. If we don't check on each other, there isn't any "Action" to support the printed word "Care"....and I always care about my Friends.


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## greybeard

May have gotten an inch of rain here today--no wind or other bad weather.
YESTERDAY tho, under clear skies, we had a LOT of wind. I saw the dogs and the cows walking toward the house backwards just to keep the dust out of their eyes. Blew my hat off and an internet friend of mine over near the La line just texted me to say he found it floatin' in one of his ponds........


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## frustratedearthmother

Geeze, we've had rain here allllllllllllllll day!  Windy yesterday too....


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## Latestarter

Still raining here... not heavy, but steady. No real wind since the big storm this morning, just a light southerly breeze as that's the direction all this moisture is streaming in from. I've been sitting here since about noon trying to get all caught up from being away a day & 1.2...   Haven't even been over to BYC yet... I don't "follow" as much over there though so hopefully that won't be quite as heavy on traffic.


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## Devonviolet

We got an inch and a quarter of rain. Not much for wind now, and the rain has stopped. We have an increasing band of blue sky in the west.

Today was a day of rest. So, we took advantage of the time off to watch some good movies, that we recorded from our "free" HBO:
My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2 and a documentary on the life of Lincoln, as compiled from family photos.

We are in the middle of watching The Soloist, with Robert Downey Jr., and Jamie Foxx . . . Powerful!!!  We stopped part way through to go out and feed the animals.





The blue didn't show up, in the photo, but you can see that the clouds are clearing.


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## Latestarter

I can see a thin line of clear sky just above treetop level out west. The sky was very red for a short spell and of course now the sun is below the horizon. Should be a clear day tomorrow. I don't feel like cooking and I'm getting hungry. I think Arby's has a 2 for 5 going on and I think I'll go get a couple of roast beef sandwiches. Hope your newest additions are doing well. I see Violet in her normal place... up on the fence/gate hoping for some lovin'


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## goatgurl

glad everything is ok over your way even if it is all a little soggy. been raining off and on all day here too.  other than feeding everyone the girls and I have pretty much been hanging out in the house.  I've been trying to clean my desk off simply so I can find things but haven't had much luck.   
  and boy are you wrong about me not knowing when the girls are due.  I always hand breed and write it all down since I tend to forget the when if I don't.  bang and viola were both bred on 11-6-16 and will be due about 4-5-17.  dippin' dot was originally on 11-8-16 but recycled and was rebred on 11-30-16 so is due around 4-29-17.   both vi and bang have their little starter kit udders going.  love it when things start jiggling as they walk away from you.   when figuring out the then you had better get pounding those posts, lol. 
  glad your daughter is coming to visit.  this is her first one if I remember right.  hope youall enjoy yourselves and mel doesn't eat teddy.  i'm having duck eggs , a steak and a salad for supper.  enjoy your arbys


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## Baymule

We got 1 3/4" today. I'll take it. DH had his first day of therapy for his shoulder replacement, then we hooked up the trailer and went and picked up 3 pigs. We got red wattle pigs, 4 months old. HELLOOOOOO FREEZER CAMP!! LOL We were tired and hungry, so I fried some deer steak, steamed cauliflower and sliced avacados  for late lunch/early supper. Then we both took a nap. The pigs are still in the trailer, we'll unload tomorrow.


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## NH homesteader

Yes! Piggies! Pictures?


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## frustratedearthmother

Yay for piggies!  Why did I think you were going to get some in the fall?  Yep, pics tomorrow please!!!


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## Baymule

NH homesteader said:


> Yes! Piggies! Pictures?


I'll start a thread on them tomorrow. My phone quit taking pictures....off to Tyler AT&T I go.....



frustratedearthmother said:


> Yay for piggies!  Why did I think you were going to get some in the fall?  Yep, pics tomorrow please!!!



I should stay off craigslist.........


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## goatgurl

woot for piggies.  what made you decide to get them before fall?  and now that ya got 'em where you gonna put 'em.  i'm guessing the garden will be off limits now and the sheeple will not be amused to have new room mates.


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## babsbag

You Texas folk don't even begin to know what rain is. Wind...maybe...but not rain. CA has the corner on that market this year.


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## frustratedearthmother

I know ya'll are sick of it Babs!  I hope you don't have to get used to it...

Our annual rainfall is usually 53ish inches.  We put up a new rain gauge/weather station in mid-January last year.  In that amount of time we've had over 75 inches of rain here.  UGH!!!!  I'm so OVER it!

ETA:  Put the wrong annual rainfall in - edited to be the correct amount.


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## Baymule

babsbag said:


> You Texas folk don't even begin to know what rain is. Wind...maybe...but not rain. CA has the corner on that market this year.


We've had our turn in the bucket.... LOL


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## frustratedearthmother

But on the bright side - we ONLY got a bit over 2 inches today and I'm thankful!  Really, really thankful - it could've been so much worse!


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## CntryBoy777

Too much of any one thing will drive ya crazy after it is endured long enough. I really feel for all of y'all out there.


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## babsbag

Let's see, I got a mere inch in an hour on Saturday night.  Last Thursday I got 1.5" and 4.5" on Friday and another storm is blowing through right now. So tired of this.


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## frustratedearthmother

I lived this one!  At the time I lived in a little bitty house in the middle of a town 8 miles south of Alvin.  We lost power for days - ended up having a cookout on our front porch.  Power was out so we cooked all the meat in the freezer and invited all the folks who were stranded for DAYS on the side of the road.  The Nat'l Guard sunk their huge 4 wheel drive RESCUE TRUCK so they hung out with us for awhile too.  My son was born two months before this event.  It was WILD! 

*Alvin, Texas*_, was deluged by 43 inches of rain in 24 hours from July 24-25, 1979, setting an all-time record 24-hour rainfall for the U.S._

_The torrential rain fell as Tropical Storm Claudette made landfall near the Texas-Louisiana border before stalling right over Alvin._

_The 24-hour rainfall in Alvin may also be the record for the world's greatest 24-hour rainfall occurring over flat terrain, according to the Atlantic Hurricane Season Summary of 1979 released by the National Hurricane Center._

_Other locations in Texas were also inundated by more than 30 inches of rain from Claudette._


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## CntryBoy777

Dang!!....that's more rain than I care to see. We lived in Hawaii for 3yrs and experienced monsoon season. Those 4 hurricanes in Fl wasn't fun either. The blizzards in Me was all the snow I care to experience in a lifetime. I guess that is why I hate those I care about having to endure such extremes. I reached my rope's end this past summer in the heat here, and I know it was worse south of here. I was going crazy...literally. Guess it is a good thing I didn't join up here til Sept.


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## babsbag

OK, I'll shut up !!!! That is more rain than we usually see in a year. You win the prize.

I remember back in the 90's CA had a drought and they said it would take 7 years of rainfall to fill the reservoir that supplied water for our city. Well, it took one year of ABOVE normal rainfall to fill the reservoir.  Sort of like what is happening now. A few years ago they were saying that CA was headed into a 100 year drought. Hmmm, glad I didn't bet on that. 

I am not trying to start a debate about 'climate change', but this weather we are having right now is really not new. Might not be common but CA has had floods before and that is one reason we have the system of dams that we have. Yes, irrigation and drinking water too, but flood control is a huge part. And yet the news people come on and report on our weather and can't help but say "another example of global warming and climate change and the extreme weather it can bring."  It is just the circle of life. IMO


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## frustratedearthmother

Definitely NOT a prize I want to win! I sure know what a pia this mess is!  Somebody should shoot me for saying this, but a drought doesn't sound too bad right now!  The BIG flood was nearly 40 years ago - so if doesn't really factor into what's been going on for the last couple years.   

Worst part of this much wetness is that it's such a stressor for the goats.  We all know how much goats hate water- mine trudge right on through it.  It's all some of the younger gals know and that's sad. 

Hope it stops for CA and TX!


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## babsbag

It will make hoof trimming easier that's for sure. But I'll be wearing disposable gloves when I do it.


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## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> It will make hoof trimming easier that's for sure


I'm having a hard time figuring out how to trim that web in between their toes, lol!!!


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> You Texas folk don't even begin to know what rain is. Wind...maybe...but not rain. CA has the corner on that market this year.





> We've had our turn in the bucket


We topped our normal 54" annual rain average last year, in late April. 

_With an average annual rainfall of 35.65 inches, the state of Texas gets 3.5 less inches of rain than the national average (39.17 inches)

Cleveland Texas has had an average rainfall of 54.24 inches over the last 30 years, which is 39% more than the average nationwide, and 52% more than the average in Texas._


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## AClark

Oh, you too with the rain huh? Sunday we got dumped on, which would be fine if we hadn't had 2 solid days of rain earlier in the week. It's a soggy mess, I literally sink into my yard just walking across it. The horses don't mind, they look like pigs wallowing in the mud, but the goats sure seem to mind it! 

I saw about the t post breaking. I've only really had that happen once. We were doing my parents pasture, and the t-posts had been in since before I was born. I needed to move one so I was rocking it back and forth to loosen it up when it finally snapped. I did about half a back flip and landed hard! Decided I didn't need to dig it up and just covered it with dirt and called it good. It wasn't rusted or anything, the alkaline soil had compromised it pretty bad.


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## greybeard

ARk Storm


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## babsbag

greybeard said:


> ARk Storm



Now doesn't that sound like fun. My goats would have to get water wings or I could move them to the garage.   I'm not sure that the drainage around the barn could handle that much water.  I think my house would ok, I am literally on a hill about 75' above the stream bed so there is a lot of room for runoff.  But a storm like that is once every 300 years so I should be safe; that last one was in 1862.


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## HomeOnTheRange

If anyone would like to send rain my way, please do so!!  We get 9.45 inches of rain a YEAR.  Everyone stay safe out there.


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> Now doesn't that sound like fun. My goats would have to get water wings or I could move them to the garage.   I'm not sure that the drainage around the barn could handle that much water.  I think my house would ok, I am literally on a hill about 75' above the stream bed so there is a lot of room for runoff.  But a storm like that is once every 300 years so I should be safe; that last one was in 1862.


200 years.


> The severe flooding may feel like a whiplash development in a state that’s been locked in drought for 5 years and in an exceptional drought for three of them. Still, California has seen worse: massive floods have swept through the state about every 200 years for the past 2,000 years or more..
> 
> The most recent was a series of storms that lasted for a near-biblical 43 days between 1861 and 1862, creating a vast lake where California’s Central Valley had been. Floodwaters drowned thousands of people, hundreds of thousands of cattle, and forced the state’s government to move from Sacramento to San Francisco


http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/21/1...c-river-flood-storm-evacuations-rain-arkstorm


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## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


> *Alvin, Texas*_, was deluged by 43 inches of rain in 24 hours from July 24-25, 1979, setting an all-time record 24-hour rainfall for the U.S._


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## Latestarter

So I haven't been eating much of late and tonight I had a serious craving for a pizza. 10 pm I head out to Dominos to get a 3 topping carry out for $7.99... See a number of cops on the road going and have been being extra careful driving since my 2nd warning in less than 6 months. So, coming home, being very careful, car approaches at speed higher than mine from the rear in passing lane then slows down to mirror my speed and I think to self "self, there's NO WAY that ISN'T a cop and since it slowed, there's no way you AINT getting stopped... AGAIN!" and sure enough, bubble gums light up and here I go again...

So I pull over and she comes along side and says "I smell pizza, just get yourself some dinner"? I say, yes, I sure did, what did I do this time... She asks for my license and insurance and tells me my license plate lights are on but the lenses are cloudy so she couldn't read my plate from 50 yards back... And that my upper brake lights aren't working either.  I told her I just replaced both license plate bulbs when I found out on the warning I got a month ago that they weren't working and had replaced the upper brake bulbs at the same time. I then showed her the recent damage from the wire fencing and explained the rear windscreen had just been replaced and that it had also broken the light but I haven't had time to get that fixed yet and how the 2 tires were brand new at $500 because of the torn sidewall I got getting the rear window replaced. I told her this is like the 3rd warning I'll have received in the last 6 months since moving here and maybe I should have stayed in CO. I told her I just can't believe this... I can't catch a break!

She said not to worry, it would just be a warning and wouldn't cost points or hurt my insurance. That's all well and good but the next time I get pulled over for anything, the cop is going to look and see 3 warnings in the past 6 months and there's no way I'll get a 4th... I can't afford this crap. Damn!

So yesterday was off and on clouds, fog, sprinkles, and I didn't go out to work in the mud created on Monday. Today, the weather was beautiful... sun shining, cloudless blue skies with light breezes, and I woke up with my hand and wrist so sore I couldn't close my hand... Hoped I'd be able to get something accomplished tomorrow before I hit the road tomorrow night. But NOW, I have to get the truck over to the dealership and get that friggin rear upper brake light and the license plate lights fixed... I gotta say, I see some real crap heaps driving around in this state and I've now received 3 warnings for minor stuff not working and it's got me spooked.


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## HomeOnTheRange

Ouch!  Sorry about the "cop stop".  Of course it sounds like you talked a good talk!  Of course this is coming from someone who drives in a state where license plates are optional, you are lucky if the parts stay on the car in front of you and if you have double digit DWIs, no problem, you get to keep driving on our streets.

Hope your hand gets better so you can get back to having fun with the fence building!


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## greybeard

> so she couldn't read my plate from 50 yards back



Yep, sounds like they got your #.


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## Devonviolet

Geez LS, sounds like you should just stay home from now on! 
That's the pits! We've been in TX since June of 2014 and I haven't been stopped once.

Sorry you have been stopped so many times for picayune little things. I blame you for thinking you might have been better staying in Colorado.  But, please don't go back, DH & I are glad you are here!


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## Latestarter

I'm tellin' y'all... I'm seriously starting to get a complex here... Thinking I should just stock up and become a hermit on my property. I'm feeling like I've got a police target painted on me somewhere. It's been a long, long time since I've had traffic stop issues and I'm evidently making up for lost time.


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## babsbag

My goodness, even in CA I don't get stopped for stuff like that.  I drove around with a taillight our for months and never got pulled over.  I got stopped for tags that hadn't been put on but that is it in probably the last 20-30 YEARS. Are you sure you don't have a  "stop me" sign on there that you don't see.?


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## AClark

Late, you've swapped to TX plates already right? I will say this, I had Colorado plates when I moved to TX and I got stopped all the time. For the most minor BS infractions. "Your trailer was weaving" and one was because I slowed down and moved into the passing lane for a cop that had his lights on stopped in the right lane - pulled me over because I was acting suspicious slowing down for him and moving over?!?! They would always ask extensively about whether I had weed in the car (which I have nothing against, but it isn't my thing) and then finally let me go after running a K9 over my vehicle.

I changed those plates to TX plates and never got stopped again the entire 3 more years I lived there. That's something I like about Oklahoma, it's like HomeOnTheRange said, license plates are optional, and if it can start and move on it's own, you can drive it. Arizona is the same way outside of Tucson and Phoenix. DH's truck doesn't even have a muffler (we deleted it, left the cats and resonators) and it's loud and nobody bothers him, mine came without a muffler and it blows smoke and nobody bats an eye. Hell, I even dumped a trailer in an intersection and nobody flipped out, just a bunch of people ran over to help us lift the tongue back on the truck, lol. 

I like TX, but their vehicle inspections and all can take a hike.


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## Bruce

AClark said:


> pulled me over because I was acting suspicious slowing down for him and moving over?!?!


That is pretty sad. In fact that is the LAW here, you MUST move to the passing lane if it is safe to do so and slow down if you can't move over.

I wonder if LS is in an area with overzealous cops. My wife got pulled over near our old house for a rear marker light being out. I had to take her car to the police station after I replaced the bulb to prove it was done.If it had been me in my car I would have made the cop sit there while I replaced the light since I had 2 spares in the console. I've seen that cop in the same place many times. 

But I see people with registration stickers that expired months and months ago all the time. Saw one a couple of months back that expired 2 years prior. Of course it is easy to pick people up at night for a piddly light issue. And then there are the people with the plastic license plate covers that are so cloudy you can't read the plate in the daytime let alone at night. But they aren't getting tagged or they would remove/replace it.


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## NH homesteader

I wonder if you have a truck similar to someone they're after. My cousin, who is a cop, said if he wants to pull you over, he'll find a reason. Of course he was talking about spotting someone with warrants in the car, but still.

If you wanted overzealous police, you could have just stayed in New England. Maybe they heard you were talking bad about cops on BYH lol


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## CntryBoy777

That sucks LS, may be ya need to get some bumper stickers on your truck....farm related, or local specific like TSC or local feed store. Remember they are cracking down on illegals so any reason they have to check ya out, they will. They are trying to add to the budget too. Don't let it deter ya tho it'll pass as they become aware of you there. Sorry about your hand and hope it gets better for ya...will probably not enjoy holding the steering wheel either....be Safe and Careful on your trip.


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## farmerjan

It is also a law here in Va to move over and slow down when there is an "emergency" vehicle stopped on the side of the road.  Sounds like you are just in an area where they are in the mood to stop people.


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## AClark

TX is really strict like that. My mom said she got a ticket in the 80's for not having a TX license within 10 days of living there, except she didn't live there. She went back to AZ and now avoids going to TX at all costs because she failed to appear for that ticket and said it would be her luck they'd still get her for it, lol.

It really depends on the cops though. I've been pulled over in several states and always let go with a "slow down" or "next time, make a complete stop will ya?". Those I deserved for sure, and didn't get tickets from them. I just do my best to be nice about it, because really if they caught me doing something like speeding, there's no point in trying to lie about it. I was confused about the others where I could see no reason to be pulled over, and given a BS reason for it. 

I really think Colorado plates make you a target though. TX still has some super strict laws on marijuana, it's not even legal for medicinal use there yet.


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## greybeard

Next time try this:
"Sir, do you know why I stopped you"
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.

"Because catching real criminals is too  hard?"


Or get one of these:











Or at least one of these.. tho it can be a double edged sword, identifying you as an immigrant.


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## Bruce

I suspect the TSTA window sticker is his best bet.

@AClark I'm pretty sure he has it registered in TX now so he wasn't pulled over for the easy tourist dollars.


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## Baymule

And the great thing about Texas tags is that every cop in every state thinks we all run guns and drugs.  And they will pull us over for any reason so they can treat us like criminals.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> And the great thing about Texas tags is that every cop in every state thinks we all run guns and drugs.  And they will pull us over for any reason so they can treat us like criminals.


I don't have that problem. All LEO and all were on my property. I sat and talked with them all afternoon. DPS, Sheriff Dept from 2 counties, County constables, DEA, TX Rangers.


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## AClark

I've met some of the local police here, reservation police and the local sheriffs dept. All nice folks. Just had the SO over the other day because my neighbors water main burst and they couldn't get in touch with him - too bad I wasn't any help because I've only seen the guy once and it was dark out. Best I could do for them was say "hey one of his cars isn't there, that's probably why he's not answering the door" - the down side of being a not nosey neighbor I suppose.


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## Latestarter

<sigh> my saga continues... my 14 hour drive back turned into about 21... 2am this past morning, coming through SE Colorado I met up with a 5-6 mile patch of black ice. Nice dry pavement before and after... and it was windy. Broke traction and couldn't get it back. Did several 180's back and forth in both directions followed by a sideways romp down in to the north bound ditch. Thought I was going to roll but after the tires hit dirt I was able to get some directional control and slammed the drivers side into the up-slope embankment and the barbed wire fence there (pointing south). No physical harm to me, daughter or her dog. After we came to rest I put it in 4 wheel drive and drove back up out of the north bound ditch and crossed over to the south bound side break down lane. Tire was completely off the rim on the right front and flat on the right rear. Called the insurance company to start a claim, called 911 and got a sheriff deputy out there who called a tow from the next town (Springfield 20 miles south). I tried jacking up the front but couldn't get the rim to start lifting so thought maybe I had broken the axle. Turns out I just didn't go high enough. If it had only been one flat, I would have changed it and drove on.

The deputy wanted me to stay till a state trooper got there.  20 yr old Statey had me fill out the accident report and then wrote me a ticket for careless driving  I asked him if he was serious and then made it quite clear that I though that was complete & utter bull$hit. I bent a couple of T posts but no other people or vehicles were involved and I wasn't driving carelessly... It's called an "accident" for a reason. So to add insult to injury, I have a $170 ticket. So talking to the tow driver, we passed a DOT plow/sand truck headed to the location where the black ice was and I said I'd fight it if I didn't have to drive 600 miles to be in court. He recommended I call the DA or Asst DA and ask them to drop the ticket. I have rental car coverage but where this happened there isn't a rental car place within 150 miles. So I asked the tow guy If he happened to have a used tire same size that I could buy. Ended up he dropped me (and truck with daughter and dog) at the town tire store and told me the guy is typically there on Saturdays. I decided that if the tires weren't ruined and could be re-mounted I could drive home and get the repairs done here. So we sat in the truck for a couple of hours waiting on the tire store to open. Didn't make sense to wake up the motel clerk across the street and pay for a 2 hour stay.

So, the one tire (brand new on the rear) was fine, got re-mounted and re-installed. Had to mount the spare on the front as the front tire was trashed. Luckily I have the one tire left from when I replaced the other two last week so I'll bring that over and get it mounted and installed on Monday so the 2 front tires will be same make/model/wear. Then I guess I'm gonna be driving a rental car for a while so the truck can get repaired. Needless to say, I'm beat... Showered & time for bed very shortly.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Aww, LS, I'm sorry you've had a rough time lately...  Glad you and your daughter are safe! 
Get some rest, and try not to get discouraged.


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## NH homesteader

you are overdue for some good luck! Careless driving? that is absurd!


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## Bruce

Geez @Latestarter I didn't mean to jinx you when I said it was nice you had a good spare after replacing the rear tires! Sure glad no one got hurt (sorry that your wallet did). With all this unneeded stress you are going to be older than me soon!


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## Mike CHS

It might be time to be a lotto ticket.  Luck has to change at some point.  Really sorry this is going on for you.


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## Baymule

The only good thing is that neither of you were hurt. The whole thing sucks, worst of all was getting that ticket. Like you really needed another financial kick in the butt.


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## farmerjan

It does seem like you have a target on your back.  I am glad no one is hurt and I would definitely take the advise to at least call the DA and see if they would drop it.  It would seem like you would catch a break here pretty soon.


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## Pastor Dave

Hope you had a good day LS with your daughter, and maybe some rest and a good meal down the both of you made things better?


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## CntryBoy777

Well around here, you'd be asked if ya was "Snake Bit"?...that sudden "Oh *Hit" moment, is never good...happens in seconds that seems like minutes....and ya ain't in "Control" of nothing....just along fir the "Ride" and sudden Stop. Ya just had to know ya was going to be 1 tire Short of the amount ya had with ya....it always seems that way for me too. I know ya will call the DA, cause a call is worth saving $170. It is a "Bite", if ya have to pay it....but, ya don't need extra "Distractions" keeping ya from moving forward. I hope ya aren't going to be looking for a new insurance carrier...alot will send out "Drop Notices" after claims.
Sure glad you all made it thru it, for sure...with minimal damage. Starting to look more like a Farm truck now, huh?


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## Devonviolet

Pastor Dave said:


> Hope you had a good day LS with your daughter, and maybe some rest and a good meal down the both of you made things better?



I can't speak for the day LS had. However, we were able to visit with him and his daughter today. She's a lovely, sweet young lady.

We were able to see the damage to his truck, which involves the entire left side, of the truck, to varying degrees. The left headlight was smashed pretty badly, and there were nasty scratches to the paint and plastic parts along the side, and the lense, on the back left tail light was just set in place, as it had been smashed in the accident.

It just blows me away, that an accident, on black ice, could be considered careless driving, especially when he was driving the speed limit, on what appeared to be safe road conditions. I have tried to drive on black ice. First it is impossible to see, and second, once on it, it is impossible to control your vehicle. I'm hoping and praying the District Attorney listens to the voice of reason, when LS calls, to explain what happened, and excuses the unreasonable ticket!!!


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## AClark

Good Lord! I can't believe you got a ticket for that, and I certainly would fight that ticket out to the bitter end, even if I had to video appear for it. That's what you pay for insurance for, for accidents. I'm glad all y'all are safe and sound with no people or animal damage. 

I hope your ticket gets dismissed, not only for the ticket price, but so your insurance doesn't skyrocket. I had my first accident a year ago and mine went way up (I backed into a car in a parking lot).


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## Bruce

And where are the pictures @Devonviolet ????


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## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> And where are the pictures @Devonviolet ????


  As always, I'm easily distracted.   We were so focused looking at LS's truck, I didn't think to get my phone out and take pictures.


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## Bruce

Drat! LS isn't a picture guy, you forgot, 

Of course I have no camera on my TracFone so unless I remembered to bring a camera I wouldn't have anything to show either.


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## Latestarter

Well, since y'all seem interested, here's what I had to take to send to the insurance company claims dept.


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## CntryBoy777

Looks like ya dodged a major bullet there....could've been much, much worse. Really glad that you all came thru it as well as ya did. Tho, I will admit that....I tried to Kick that damn rear light off for ya, since it has caused ya problems here lately......being sore from the fencing already, ya probably didn't even notice the whipping from your off road experience...
Hope your visit is going good for ya, relax and catch your breath, Homestretch is around the next bend.


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## Latestarter

Oh yeah... true enough... At the angle I left the road I really thought I was gonna roll but the tires caught just enough to get me aligned with the ditch so that the drivers side hit the up-slope and fence just about square to it.

So I'm driving a Nissan Maxima rental from Enterprise. The insurance company says 13 days, the auto body says 19. Guess time will tell one way or the other. Next 1800 mile drive will be in the rental.


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## CntryBoy777

At least they won't be added to the truck....probably cost ya less in gas too.


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## Baymule

Your poor truck! Cars are cars.......but a truck! Sure, trucks are meant to be used and abused, but not wrecked. I hope your truck gets put back together better than new.


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## Bruce

I think cars are meant to be used, not wrecked as well @Baymule !! I can honestly say I was not happy when my car was totaled a few years back (no damage to me personally, rear ended on an interstate onramp by a "I'm not a bad driver" idiot. I bet she's real good at texting and driving at the same time, as long as only one has to be done right).

Boy what it takes to get @Latestarter to post a picture!!

How about a few of you, your favorite oldest daughter and Mel having fun??


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## Latestarter

I'm not very photogenic... Might break the camera lens. #1 Favorite oldest daughter (FOD) is pretty photo sensitive as well. So Got to work in the wet ground today for a bit and got ~200' of T posts planted and the back gate strike post. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get the back gate "H" posts planted as well as the back corner post at the north end and the remainder of the T-posts for the back section run.

#1FOD and I went to a highly recommended steak house for dinner this evening; Five D Cattle Co. steak house and meat market in downtown Avinger, TX. About 35 miles from here. The food was pretty good. Large serving sizes and great service. I do have to comment that their drinking water tasted rather "earthy"... yeah... "dirt" tasting... but overall I'd go spend my money there again.

Tomorrow evening I think we're doing home made tacos and chili. Have to think of something decent for Saturday as I'll be bringing her home on Sunday.


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## Bruce

Well OK but I remember seeing pictures of you taken by @Baymule and/or @Devonviolet, I don't think she/they have had to buy a new camera   You could set the camera up on a timer and take a picture from the back of the three of you looking out over the property 

Good work on the posts  NO hard digging/pounding I hope.

Home made tacos and chili are great (and ya gotta 'pay' for the dinner out with a few in anyway).


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I bet she's real good at texting and driving at the same time, as long as only one has to be done right).



Reminds me of the old adage........

_Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves._ (reportedly from Albert Einstein)


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## Mini Horses

Hit black ice & flipped 2yrs ago.   Totaled the truck, walked out fine....good seatbelts.   BUT no tickets, trooper said just an accident waiting to happen.   Road was 16 miles & he came from one end, 2nd cop from other and totally clear until the one spot I found!   However, because of the insurance claim, it shows as an accident for insurance purposes.  Can't win them all.  

It did cost me -- had to go buy a truck, again!   Not fun.


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## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear about your accident but glad you both are okay!


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## Latestarter

So I guess I way over did it yesterday combined with too much red meat for dinner as my right wrist and hand is inoperative today. I can hunt and peck the keyboard w/a finger tip, but can barely use the mouse. Can barely touch my ring finger tip with thumb tip and can't touch my little finger at all. Spent the past 6-7 hours with a bag of ice and water on, under, or around it to little benefit. Sucks being right handed. No fence work today.


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## Bruce

Bummer @Latestarter! Send FOD out to pound a few T-posts. 

You can learn to use the mouse left handed, I did. Many years ago I fell backward and braced my fall with my dominant right arm. Ripped the tendons up off the bones and was in a cast for a couple of months. Software Engineer, needed to be able to use the computer. I could use my fingers on my right hand to type but couldn't do the mouse, cast got in the way. Turned out to be a useful skill to have. I can mouse left handed and write with my right hand at the same time. Don't ask me to write left handed though, it would be illegible.


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## CntryBoy777

I sure feel for ya LS, Joyce has the hand, wrist, and forearm issues. With my long list, those are just fine for me...but, my follow thru on any plans made seem to be hindered sometimes because some part deems it "Attention Time". Ya just have to think of it as your body demanding a bit of a break....aging is Hell, and a variable that just has to be "Factored In" to any project, whether ya wish too or not. Otherwise, you'll just drive yourself crazy being upset at yourself. I have just started laughing at it, and accepting it, cause ya certainly can't change it...or ya would've already. It isn't worth taking more BP pills and being upset about it. So, take some of your own advice to others...do What ya can, When ya can...it'll get done.


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## Baymule

I am glad that you and your daughter are having a good visit. What does she think of her Dad's new place? Does she want to move to Texas yet?  

good work on the T-posts. Pounding those things is work. One stretch of our fence, I got 3 T-posts pounded in, was exhausted, dripping sweat and quit after the 3rd one. I got laughed at by my husband and our neighbor, Robert. A few days later, the 2 Wonder Boys worked on that same stretch of fence and it took both of them to pound in five posts before they quit. I got the last laugh on that one!


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## Bruce

Must be some dense ground you have there @Baymule!


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Must be some dense ground you have there @Baymule!



We have found two places where in the summer, when it is dry, the ground is so hard, it's unreal. The ground is sand, but in a couple of places, under the top soft sand, is sandstone! LOL


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## Latestarter

Well, 28 hours of driving and #1 FOD and her little dog Teddy (vice Toto) have been returned to CO and I'm back home. Was sweet to get ~600 miles to a tank of gas and the tank is 1/2 the size of the truck's to boot. Seriously thinking I need to get an economical machine for these long trips that don't involve huge animals. The only problem was getting out of it having been sitting in it for long periods... No room to stretch and boy did my hip joints complain when I tried to use them to turn to climb out... I walked like a _really_ old guy for quite a while till I was able to stretch and get those kinks out.

Mel did great here by himself again. He finished his (~2 gallon size) bowl of dry dog food and boy was he happy to come inside out of the heat and humidity! He liked drinking the inside water better than the outside as well... maybe cause it was cooler? He's a strange dog when it comes to eating and drinking issues... So anyway, all his SS bowls, 2 inside, 2 outside have been washed and re-filled. He also got a "cool" treat as I mixed some sour cream with some shredded Mozzarella cheese for his slurping pleasure. Only bad part about making treats like that for him is he sits at the end of the counter drooling while he waits... I have one washed/clean area on my laminate floors... Wanna guess where?

So I found the place where I hit the fence. It was not destroyed and the barbed wire didn't get cut. One T post got bent in the middle to about a 45 degree angle but the fence was still standing and cattle would not have been able to escape. Tomorrow I'll be contacting the DA about that ticket. No word from the body shop on the truck yet, no surprise as they said 2-3 weeks. Boy is the wind howling... it was pushing that little car all over the place driving and I can  hear it making the house creak now. It will not deter me from a long awaited nap! Might even open the window tonight since it's only supposed to drop to the 50s.

#1FOD liked the place very much and made herself right at home. She likes this place much better than the last place. I don't see her moving down here any time in the near future... I plan on a good soak tonight followed by a death like sleep (I hope, we'll see) and then hopefully back to fencing tomorrow. I do need to get some food in me but don't want fast food and don't feel like cooking... I'm thinking it's gonna be a Stouffer's 2 serving (right! Like it's enough for 2!) lasagna w/meat sauce or Marie Callender (sp) (another "2" serving special) turkey pot pie kinda night. Either one will take ~ 10-12 minutes in the nuke machine.


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## HomeOnTheRange

Glad you made it there and back with no issues.  I love Stouffer's lasagna!!!  I hope you get some good sleep tonight so you can continue on with the fencing.


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## Mini Horses

The gas mileage does make a car tempting!   Glad you got back with only sore joints.   The hot tub should help with that.  Maybe even do a short stint in AM before you go to fencing....limber everything up.  

I'm working at some fence repair and clean up tomorrow...if the winds don't get up to 30 again!  Supposed to be about 70 temps, so that part will be great.   Hope we BOTH get something done on our projects.


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## CntryBoy777

Glad ya had an uneventful trip out and back. Sounds like it was a good visit, and I'm sure Mel is really happy to have ya back...and the extra snacks sure were missed.


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## Baymule

Glad you are back home with no further mishaps. I bet Mel was glad to see you too. My daughter bought a used Chevy Volt electric/gas engine car for $12 K and she loves it. She found it on a lot in Shreveport. Maybe a gas efficient car would be a good idea.

Don't hurt yourself on fencing, I know you want to get it done, but take care of yourself first. BJ got a virus and was coughing green crud, so I wouldn't let him outside. He is going batshirt crazy not being able to go outside and play, with his arm out of commission, the virus sure didn't help.


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## Bruce

Nah, for those long trips you need a Prius. In relative terms, a Volt sucks once it is past the electric range. In the newer ones that is about 1 gallon of gas in a Prius, a fair bit less than one gallon in the older Volts.  IMO a Volt best serves someone that drives a LOT of days *all* electric and a LOT of days long distance. If you don't have both a Prius will kick it's butt with respect to fuel cost. The "breakeven" on fuel cost is about the 70 mile mark. If you rarely drive past the 70 mile distance, get an electric like the Leaf and rent on the rare occasion. If you often go over 70, buy the Prius. Plus, under "ideal" conditions for both cars, the Prius has a 200 mile range advantage. Use GasBuddy.com and find the cheap gas on your route 

Joe and I actually discussed this many months ago. Of course it comes down to the cost of a single person owning 2 vehicles. The truck being out of commission notwithstanding, it would be cheaper to rent once or twice a year than to buy, register and maintain a car that gets great MPG when you also need the truck fairly regularly.


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## Latestarter

indeed... This car is costing I believe $22/day with unlimited mileage &   none of the "optional" BS coverages they use to boost earnings.


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## Bruce

That then is the smart deal! Probably would have paid at least $22 more per day fueling the truck than the car for that long trip.


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## Latestarter

So yesterday I went by the body shop to see how things were going, only to find out that they weren't... It seems the insurance company informed the body shop on Friday that they were writing the truck off as a total loss. Well, yesterday was Wednesday and they hadn't contacted me so I contacted them to ask when they planned on informing me?

So bottom line, the comps they got were from ~11K to 15K retail and they don't use retail... they use some crazy value that takes out profit to the sellers so came up with a  value for my truck of $7,226.00. I asked how was I supposed to replace it when they're only paying me 1/2 what it will cost to do so. They said not their problem, this is what the insured value is. So take away my $1,000 deductible and I was entitled to ~6200. They'd already paid me $4,478 toward repairs, so were going to owe me ~$1,748 more and they keep the truck. So I asked how much to "buy the truck back from them". They said I'd have to pay back ~$959 of what they had already paid me so that's what I did. So essentially the insurance payment for damages to my truck were paid out to me in the amount of ~$3,519.00 and the truck has zero insured value now. They also informed me that they will only pay for my rental through the 15th.

I called the body shop and told them to proceed with basic repairs; the front fender and headlight cluster and the rear fender (pull it back out) and fix it so the rear tail light assembly will stay attached and work, and not to worry about anything else (scratches,dents,damaged/missing body plastic side moldings, etc.). He said doing a basic "close" paint match on the new fender without blending it in and doing what I asked would be about $1,700.00. He said it might go a little more and I told him do what he could up to ~$2,500 and try to get it done by the 15th. He said he'd do what he could, get everything ordered today and get started on it tomorrow and parts should be there Monday.

I then contacted the insurance company and deleted comprehensive and collision from my policy since they will no longer cover that on a totaled, zero value truck. It's a farm truck and registered as such... I don't really need a pretty vehicle, I need a functioning one and I've already put too much $$ into that truck since getting here. 3 grand for the front transfer case alone... I need to recoop some of that expense before getting rid of the truck.

The Liberty Mutual insurance commercial comes to mind where the guy is sitting on the park bench and says; "The guy told me I chose the wrong insurance plan... (I told the guy), no... I chose the wrong insurance company"... I held USAA in pretty high esteem... no longer. I feel used and taken advantage of.


----------



## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear how they decided to handle your truck...how rotten!


----------



## samssimonsays

Sorry you are having such a rough time!


----------



## CntryBoy777

It doesn't seem that much has changed with insurance companies in many yrs. I have experienced that twice, and on 1 vehicle I was still paying a note and still had to pay it off, because their value was less than was owed on it. It is shocking when this situation is experienced, for sure. Ya definitely feel abused and violated. From my accounting courses that I have taken, a vehicle is a liability not an asset, as most believe it to be...it depreciates in value. I refuse to buy a new vehicle these days for that very reason. I am sorry that ya have been treated in such a manner, and any insurance is Great, as long as you are paying them, but when they have to pay you the Fangs come out. That "New Car Replacement" has to be added by the buyer as a rider to their policy and pay extra with their premium....none automatically cover that for free. They are "For Profit" and it certainly isn't your profit they are concerned with.


----------



## Baymule

Gee, that super-sucks. I HATE insurance companies!  Did they give you a complimentary jar of Vaseline with that screwed deal you got?


----------



## Devonviolet

Oh WOW LS!!!  What a bummer!

That just reinforces my low opinion of insurance companies!  I have had my share of bad experiences with them as well. But, I won't bore y'all with the details. 

If I didn't have to have insurance I wouldn't. Pure and simple.  We cancelled our life insurance plans years ago, because we figured we would have paid in much more than they would pay out, at the time of our death.   

Insurance companies are all about taking money from my pocket and putting it in theirs. We only had one small claim in 40 years. And that was yeas ago, on another insurance company. Yet, this past renewal, our premium went up.     I'm told it is because all the weather related claims, in other states.  GRRRRR!!!


----------



## Bruce

Man Joe that sucks HUGE. They told the body shop they were going to total it a WEEK ago but didn't tell you? I would think that at the VERY LEAST they owe you 7 days past the 15th. 3 days isn't much time to get the parts and fix everything. Did they ask about any replaced parts in the last 3 months? When my '04 Prius was totalled (*) The ins co (L.M.) guy asked that question. Sadly the $325 part I put in was 5 months back. Since I didn't have any I don't know what that would mean, maybe full coverage on that part and they could resell it?  I don't know if it is by state or by ins co or what but I got high book because there were so few '04s with the features on my car in the state they had nothing to compare for sales. I THINK VT law says they have to pay high book in that case.

* 2012 - rear-ended on an interstate onramp by a "good driver".


----------



## Latestarter

Been having a hankerin' for something and decided it was poultry so I took a 12 pound turkey out of the freezer to thaw for roasting tomorrow. Somehow that just didn't appease the craving... Now I really like the KFC spices and flavoring, but I can't stomach the slop coating created by too much oil and grease, so can't eat their chicken anymore. So I took a quick road trip up to the chicken express to get some southern fried chicken. They had a sale sheet (8.5 x 11) taped to the register that I could get 8 thighs and 6 biscuits or rolls for $10.99. Well, since the 3 piece with a biscuit that I normally get is like 8 bucks, I went ahead and ordered the sale offer to go. They ran out of biscuits so I got 5 + one roll. So I had 3 thighs for a late lunch with the one roll and a biscuit. So now I have left over chicken and a turkey thawing   I'm calling this poultry overload...   What was I thinking? 

Guess I'll heat up a couple more thighs for a late dinner and shred whatever is left for Mel. He loves chicken scraps and of course he'll be having turkey scraps for the next several days as well. He loves turkey with gravy as much as I do  I still have a couple of cans of cranberry sauce and think I'll boil up a couple of spuds for mashing. 

It's been a cloudy, moist/damp, windy day today... It only made it to the low 50s and is supposed to be in the mid 30s tonight. Over the past few days they were forecasting rain, but now it appears it's just going to be clouds and cooler... Saying sun shine tomorrow and high 50s.


----------



## CntryBoy777

After so much chicken and turkey, you'll be clucking and crowing for a few days there. I know Mel is hoping ya get tired of eating bird, so there will be more for him....
It's been sprinkling on/off all day today and dropping tonite to close to freezing with rain moving in. They are saying it should be sunny with a hi of 47° on Tues here...


----------



## Devonviolet

DD, her hubby & our grandson came for a visit this afternoon.  I put 2 of our chickens in a roasting pan & set it to roast while we went out back to do some target practice, with SIL's hand guns. He had a 22 & 9mm. We got our 22 rifle, with a scope, out.

This was the first time our 12 year old grandson shot a gun, so he had a blast. Next time we might get the 12 gauge out, so he can see what we meant, when we said it really packs a punch!

When we finished shooting, we came inside & I finished making dinner. As I took the chickens out of the oven DD said, "This isn't _your_ chickens, is it?  Even if it is, please tell me it isn't!!!"   So, I said, it isn't our chickens".  Then I had to take DH aside & tell him DD didn't want to know it was chickens we butchered ourselves.   I don't understand what is different from store bought, except it's healthier!!!

I also made Latestarter's favorite Armenian Pilaf, and of course gravy, from the drippings. This batch, of gravy, turned out especially good this time.


----------



## Bruce

You could try: "Oh NO, we don't eat OUR chickens, the neighbors do. We eat theirs."

Suppose that would go over well? 

Do you think she can tell the difference between a store bought Cornish X and a home raised bird?


----------



## Devonviolet

No, @Bruce, I don't think she would go for me feeding her the neighbor's chicken.  I do think you have a point, though. We have raised Cornish X, and she wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and store bought.


----------



## Latestarter

I have to say... home raised chickens are "structurally" different than virtually all store bought ones I've ever eaten. The store bought ones have such huge breasts and even the legs have more meat than the typical farm yard bird. It also seems the leg bones are shorter in store bought... Maybe because they don't have to run for their lives from real live bugs and such... I think they taste about the same, maybe a little difference, but not in a bad way, and I absolutely concur the home raised ones HAVE to be healthier for us to eat.

ETA: So glad your DD and family had a good visit. I love shooting with the grand kids


----------



## Bruce

I had heard that home raised birds taste better. A friend of mine wanted me to raise a few for her to eat, said they are SO much better. That idea is not going to fly here though.


----------



## NH homesteader

Home raised Cornish crosses taste better than factory Cornish crosses. Home raised heritage birds, though they can have a tougher texture, taste way better than both.


----------



## Latestarter

When you say "heritage" birds, are there particular breeds you prefer/recommend? I mean I want eggs as well as meat, so I'd be looking for the best of both in the breed(s) I'd select...


----------



## Goat Whisperer

NH homesteader said:


> Home raised Cornish crosses taste better than factory Cornish crosses. Home raised heritage birds, though they can have a tougher texture, taste way better than both.


Have you gotten birds from S & G poultry? 
They specialize in meat birds that AREN'T Cornish x. We've ordered the Red Rangers, rainbow rangers, heritage white, and naked necks. The heritage whites are the fastest growing of the 4 breeds, but still taste better than the Cornish x. 
The rangers were very good and forage well, but were still larger than your average home grown chicken. Awesome meat & taste. 

The naked necks- these aren't your typical naked necks you see at other hatcheries of at feed stores. They grow into very nice sized birds. Out of the four breeds mentioned, they are slowest growing. We would slaughter them at around 16 weeks I believe. They had by far the best meat and their skin is delicious  it's thin and crisps up great when roasted. They had the best (chicken) meat I've ever tasted!


----------



## NH homesteader

I have heard that Dorkings are the best for meat but aren't the best layers (I'll let you know this fall, ours arrive in May). I've also heard that Barred Rocks are delicious, and I know someone who will only eat Orpingtons. My Dominique cockerels were delicious but again, my Dom hens are not great layers. 

My husband did butcher some Freedom Rangers for someone and didn't like the looks of their carcasses but may have been the way they raised them?


----------



## NH homesteader

Posting at the same time as GW! Nope I've never heard of them, I'll have to go look them up!


----------



## Baymule

LS, buy some white corn tortillas and fry them whole until crispy. Cut up some of that leftover turkey  and put on the tortilla. Put some sliced jalapenos on it, top with some sharp cheddar cheese and bake in the oven until the cheese melts. Or pop in the microwave.


----------



## Latestarter

That turkey will have to wait till Wednesday to get roasted but that sounds delish.


----------



## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> That turkey will have to wait till Wednesday to get roasted but that sounds delish.


AND EASY!!


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Devonviolet said:


> I also made Latestarter's favorite Armenian Pilaf, and of course gravy, from the drippings. This batch, of gravy, turned out especially good this time.


I read this and thought I would look up what Armenian Pilaf is.  The first link I click on I get the following:



 
http://www.food.com/recipe/armenian-pilaf-356244

Wow, small world...


----------



## Latestarter

Tea kettle is screaming. gotta make tea for the road then I'm on my way to NW Mississippi to meet @CntryBoy777 and his DW. Later all... & Bruce, I'll try to get pics but expect Fred will beat me to it


----------



## Mike CHS

Sorry we are missing seeing you but I know you will enjoy the visit.


----------



## Devonviolet

HomeOnTheRange said:


> I read this and thought I would look up what Armenian Pilaf is.  The first link I click on I get the following:
> View attachment 29244
> http://www.food.com/recipe/armenian-pilaf-356244
> 
> Wow, small world...


Huh!  Small world, indeed.  I totally forgot I had posted that recipe.


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Tea kettle is screaming. gotta make tea for the road then I'm on my way to NW Mississippi to meet @CntryBoy777 and his DW. Later all... & Bruce, I'll try to get pics but expect Fred will beat me to it


How fun!!!  Yes!!!  Pictures, lots of pictures!


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Have a great time guys!


----------



## OneFineAcre

NH homesteader said:


> Home raised Cornish crosses taste better than factory Cornish crosses. Home raised heritage birds, though they can have a tougher texture, taste way better than both.



The main reason that home raised Cornish crosses are better than factory is that they aren't even remotely the same bird.
Those factory birds in all reality aren't really Cornish rock crosses anymore.  They are multi generation hybrids.  One bird is raised on one farm and another bird raised on another farm.  Those birds go to another farm to be crossed with birds from still other farms.  The actual makeup of those birds is highly proprietary company information.
The Cornish crosses you get from a hatchery aren't even close to being the same bird.


----------



## NH homesteader

I know but the hatchery birds are some strange mash-up also. Raising them slower and on grass, eating bugs and such helps too.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah if what they eat changes the flavor of the meat, a "home" raised bird that gets to free range when it wants to is going to taste different from one raised in an enclosed barn on "grow the FAST" feed.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Tea kettle is screaming. gotta make tea for the road then I'm on my way to NW Mississippi to meet @CntryBoy777 and his DW. Later all... & Bruce, I'll try to get pics but expect Fred will beat me to it


As long as y'all get some pictures to post! Sorry I can't make it, we have a snow storm you know


----------



## OneFineAcre

Bruce said:


> Yeah if what they eat changes the flavor of the meat, a "home" raised bird that gets to free range when it wants to is going to taste different from one raised in an enclosed barn on "grow the FAST" feed.



Diet, sunshine and exercise
And I'm sure living in one of those houses causes stress.


----------



## Mini Horses

Dang, LS, you should have bought an RV, not a farm  

Have a great trip and ENJOY it.     waiting on pics.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh... I do love me some RV for traveling   Just one more thing I'd love to do that doesn't quite "mesh" with having livestock    I've rented class C RVs quite a few times for various cross country trips. It makes the whole trip so much easier and better. Was especially beneficial when I was traveling with young kids! When I got tired, I'd pull into a rest area and crash till they'd wake me up, then eat, make some tea and hit the road again   I'd love to follow the warm weather south for a winter or two and park an RV near the beach down in the keys. Being retired military I can rent space on military bases for almost nothing and hook up to water/electric and septic for no added cost as part of the "campsite..." 

So I drove through this white powdery stuff falling from the sky on my way back home... I have to say... I do NOT miss it!! Hope all you northern folks are doing OK with the major snow event happening up your way. Had a great visit with @CntryBoy777 and his significant other. Man, they gave me two bags full of elephant garlic! I had to put it in the trunk for the ride home or I'd have been unable to breath! These cloves are bigger than my fist! I'm gonna have to mince it all and put some olive oil with it and get it in the freezer. They also gave me 3 dozen eggs consisting of about 1/2 duck eggs and the remainder chicken eggs   So excited to try duck eggs with bacon for breakfast and in baking. Have heard so much about them, I'm eager to experience it.   I told Fred he's welcome to come over for a visit whenever he'd like and can get away. They don't have a real "reliable" vehicle right now for a long trip, but maybe later.

So tomorrow I go get my truck back and turn in the rental car. Then I have to get that turkey cooking. Eats are gonna be awesome tomorrow and for the near term future! 

So I've "met" chatted with @Jenn27 who is over in the Marshall, TX area. I hope to meet up with her/them for an "eat & greet" sorta thing next time I'm over in Shreveport and I told her next time we have a group get together, we'll make sure to include them! Speaking of which... @Devonviolet & @Baymule we need to get together again when everything slows down from the "spring rush" period. I feel "challenged" to produce a smoked/rotiss pork shoulder that Devonviolet will be able to partake of without ill effects... If I can't succeed, I'll have to grill her something else special for her... We'll work something out. 

I'll try to get some pics up here tomorrow after I get all my running around taken care of. I'm beat right now and not up to messin' with it.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad you had a good time!  Post some pictures of the elephant garlic...that would be neat to see!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Just a little while ago I picked a tick off of my knee LS, so if ya have an itch ya may want to look at it close before ya just scratch it...ya may have taken something home with ya, ya didn't bargain for....if so, I sure am sorry 'bout that. No return is necessary just dispose of it there....


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> I feel "challenged" to produce a smoked/rotiss pork shoulder that Devonviolet will be able to partake of without ill effects... If I can't succeed, I'll have to grill her something else special for her... We'll work something out.



Ooooh!  That sounds yummy, LS!!!  And if you collect some rich juices under that shoulder roast, I will do my best to produce a nice, tasty gravy, to go with that roast.  That is definitely something I can eat!



CntryBoy777 said:


> No return is necessary just dispose of it there....


Wow! So generous of you, @CntryBoy!     But, to be quite honest with you, I don't think I would expect him to return the tick either.  

I think it would be so cool, if y'all and some of the other BYH-ers, within a day or so drive from this part of TX could travel here for a big get together'. I know the logistics can seem unsurmountable. But, if it could be done, that would be amazing!  

Sadly, we couldn't manage to get away, for a visit for more than a daytrip visit to another state, because there is no one close enough, to take care of our animals, to allow us even one night away.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We are kinda in the same boat here @Devonviolet , but ya never know just how things will work out. I would love to make a trip there and meet as many as I could. Sometimes it makes me wish I was still driving trucks, then I could get Paid to visit others around the nation...I might not have to eat at as many Truck Stops either....


----------



## Latestarter

So why is it that we typically only eat roast turkey once or maybe twice a year at Thanksgiving and Christmas? I mean it's not like it's much more difficult to prepare than a roasting chicken and the carcass provides so much more meat and multiple meals over what a chicken provides, and after all, it's just so danged GOOD! 







So aside from the mashed spuds I decided I had the makin's so did a green bean casserole as well. Didn't have any rolls to soak up the gravy though so Mel got to clean the dish for me   He wasn't complaining  Course I added some scraps in for him along with the gravy...

I also got my truck back... Man, if you haven't experienced it, changing from a car to a truck is quite an adjustment to comfort, view, feel, handling, etc. Sooooooo glad to have it back but wish I could have kept the MPG of the car. Anyway, here's how it looks now. They did a real nice job and total cost was ~$1,742.00, so about 1/2 what the remaining value was that I got paid:




And here's the elephant garlic I brought home. Didn't bring home any ticks that I noticed. Guess I'm just not sweet enough for them to want to bite me 




Think I need a really long decent sleep tonight and then tomorrow I need to get uber serious with fencing.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Really glad they did a good job on the truck for ya. That turkey looks delicious.......also, glad ya don't have any hitch hikers either. They probably prefer home cooking too...


----------



## norseofcourse

That turkey looks good!  I'll sometimes get a turkey when there's a great sale during the holidays, then roast it a few months later and have roasted turkey for a few days, sandwiches, and freeze some for later meals.

The garlic is huge.  Can you use the stalks for anything, similar to how you'd use leeks or chives?


----------



## Bruce

Wowzer those ARE some BIG heads of garlic! Regarding duck eggs, I had them once, they are a bit richer than chicken eggs. Are you having some of them for breakfast Thursday?

So in the end you have your truck and $3,500 more than you had when the accident happened?? If that is the case, not a bad deal - not that I would wish such a heart stopping accident on any of my friends.


----------



## Baymule

That turkey and fixin's looks good! Sometimes you just gotta splurge a little. Another get together would be fun! We could plan out the menu and everybody bring something. I make a great lemon chess pie! BJ is dying to get out and do something, he's going nutzo watching me have all the fun on the tractor. He can "officially" take his arm out of the sling now and is doing great in therapy, but I stay on his A$$ on not doing something stupid and messing up his surgery. He would LOVE to do something! Anything! Just stop looking at the walls and go PLAY!


----------



## Baymule

BJ says, So how soon can we set this up? Can we leave now?


----------



## CntryBoy777

That's really good to hear @Baymule , glad his recovery and therapy is progressing so well.....


----------



## Devonviolet

Mmmm! That looks yummy!


----------



## Bruce

Yep, the poor man is going stir crazy!


----------



## Latestarter

Really glad to hear BJ is doing so well. I can't imagine being restricted like that for such a long time... I can understand why he'd be going bat $hit with wanting to do SOME thing!  As for when can we do this get together... well, this coming Sunday is supposed to be like 80 degrees and partly sunny 

So I was remiss the other day when posting. I'll claim residual tired from the long day trip. I told about those eggs Fred gave me but never posted a pic of them. So, here ya go:




 
Though they look approximately the same size, they aren't. The duck eggs are a bit larger and in a couple of cases, substantially larger. I just had me some bacon and duck eggs (over easy) for breakfast and swapped the eggs left so all the duck eggs are in one carton and I can't close it... they're too big. Now, to crack the egg with a butter knife takes a little larger "strike", and the interior membrane is a bit tougher than a chicken egg. The yolk is larger & thicker/more solid, and the white is much firmer. I get it now why I was told to whisk the eggs before mixing them in any baking recipe. Texture wise, I found them "smoother/richer/thicker" than hens eggs but delicious!   The taste was just a bit different as well, but not by much and it didn't turn me off. So Yep Bruce, you had it pretty much right on. I have to be honest, as of right now without trying them in baking (which I don't do often anymore) it's not enough to make me want ducks, but who knows, that could change. Ducks are just so messy...  Wonder what goose eggs taste like?


----------



## NH homesteader

Ducks are so messy and smelly. Geese are (usually) way too mean for my taste. I'll stick with chickens!


----------



## CntryBoy777

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably settle for just chickens too. They are much easier to tend to and they usually lay in a nest, ducks don't and having an "Egg Hunt" everyday can be a bit of a task, tho they all lay by 7:30-8 every morning and the chickens lay thru the day. I like the ducks, but on some days it would be nice to not have to deal with the Wetness. I could keep them dry docked, but to me it just wouldn't be right...they truly love their water. If the pond wasn't as far away as it is, I would consider putting them over there. I don't think they would last very long over there with the predators we have here. I do think it will get much better when they will be able to roam inside the fence and spread the mess over a much larger area.


----------



## Mini Horses

Love to watch the ducks, especially a hen & ducklings following.     But have none, want none...no pond now.
As to eating the eggs, I am not a big egg fan.  So, stronger is not my thing for taste.  In fact, while I like my chickens and  absolutely love to collect eggs, then I'm "over it".   Keep trying to convince myself to eat more of them -- healthy, available, etc. -- but unless I have a lot of onion, green pepper, salsa, cheese, ham or such to put into that well done scramble,  not enthused. NO over easy for me.  Now, a good quiche I love, as well as bread pudding, etc.  

LS, your turkey sure looked good -- made me think "cook one".  I do cook them other than holidays.   Not only healthy and can be used in many ways, it's a pretty inexpensive meat to buy.   I've raised a few, they can really, really eat!   Large to house & handle to butcher.  I'll probably just keep buying the 3 or 4 a year that I cook.      Would love to get one of the wild ones we have so many of around here -- just for a try.

Glad your trip went well, your truck repairs look good.  Yep, an RV is a great way to travel, gas excepted.  But you can be comfy and stop whenever.  DH & I made several cross country trips in ours and enjoyed it more than hotels.  But, we were doing a "see everything we were taught about in the history books" type travel.  Lifetime memories.  Fortunately, before so much of it is/has been destroyed in some way.   Grand Canyon and Yellowstone are my favorites.  I would go back without hesitation.


----------



## CntryBoy777

NH homesteader said:


> Ducks are so messy and smelly. Geese are (usually) way too mean for my taste. I'll stick with chickens!


Not any more smelly or messy than pigs...........and a whole lot less dangerous...


----------



## NH homesteader

Yes but my pigs hang out with me and enjoy belly rubs... And I get 125+ lbs of meat per pig


----------



## Latestarter

Some things (rotiss/smoked/fried/baked/ANY cooked) pork are worth whatever risks are associated with procuring it


----------



## NH homesteader

I find raising pigs to be mostly enjoyable. Move their pen, or clean it enough and the smell isn't so bad. And they are smart. And funny, and often quite personable.

My friend raised some Yorkshires she got through our local feed store, who shipped them up from down south, likely a confinement breeding situation. She swore pigs were dumb. I thought she was crazy until I met hers. They had an empty look in their eyes. But heritage, farm raised pigs? A whole different thing. Anyway I'm rambling but I have a whole lot of respect and love for all things pig (including bacon, of course lol)


----------



## Latestarter

OK, for those with religious leanings (Jewish/kosher), let me qualify my previous... I'm not 100% sure it's worth eternal damnation.   You gotta go with your beliefs.


----------



## Baymule

Just took 2 cookie sheets of bacon out of the oven.......


----------



## Bruce

Pigs dumb?? They are likely the smartest "farm animal" we raise in the US of A. Don't know what could have happened to those poor pigs!

Nice looking eggs @Latestarter & @CntryBoy777 !!


----------



## NH homesteader

I told her they might be trying to trick her into a false sense of security by acting dumb. Mine are very, very smart. No offense to my goats but the pigs totally outsmart them!


----------



## sadieml

Having been absent for quite a while, I just skimmed through this thread to try to catch-up on how you're doing @Latestarter.  Sorry about your accident, but really glad you and DD were both alright.  I once hit black ice on a fly-over, right behind another car and went skidding into the median coming to rest with my grill in his passenger door.  I got charged with the accident, even though I was not ticketed or fined, but the accident status was listed as striking a parked vehicle. Why? Because his car had come to a stop already before my car hit him. Nevermind the fact that his car had just spun out-of-control, too, and was "parked" in the interstate's grassy (actually, snowy) median.  He swore he was fine, but, being an attorney, he knew exactly what to do to get the maximum out of my insurance company for property damage and pain and suffering.  I wasn't angry, though, because I strongly believe in the concept of sewing and reaping.

Now, back to you, Joe.  You do seem to have a target on your back (or bumper) lately.  Please, take it easy for a while.  I don't want to hear any more bad stories from you for a while.  It's time to regroup a little and pray for your luck to change.  How are things going for your DD?  Is she moving to TX?  Is that something I missed?  I'd love to hear an update.


----------



## Baymule

LS came to visit me and my husband today and we had a great time. He admired all our hard work as we showed him around. We talked goats, sheep, fence, pigs, chickens, dogs, all the subjects near and dear to BYH'ers, that make non-BYH'ers eyes look from side to side, searching for an escape to get away from the looney (us) waxing poetic about the many attributes of their pigs. Or chickens, or sheep or goats or manure or pasture or worms, or any of the things that intensely interest US, but bore the rest of the world to death. It's so nice to be able to have conversation and fun with someone that speaks the same language. BJ really enjoyed your visit, LS!

Thanks @CntryBoy777 for the elephant garlic!! It's going in the garden tomorrow!!


----------



## CntryBoy777

@Baymule glad y'all had a good time....and that garlic will spread and multiply. If ya leave some to oversummer it will come back in the fall and produce. I hope ya enjoy it. I gave LS enough eggs to practice with, so when I get down there I can try some eggs that taste like Steak.....


----------



## Devonviolet

We had a visit, from Latestarter today, too!  And guess what???  We got some Elephant Garlic too!!!

I have planted this mild tasting garlic before, and I love cooking with it!  LS also gave me one HUGE dried head, that has five toes, two of which are bigger than any I have ever seen before!



 

Thanks, so much, for the Elephant Garlic, @CntryBoy777 !  I LOVE garlic, and can't wait to mash some of this up with olive oil and other herbs. It will go great on a steak, or with our duck eggs! YUM!


----------



## CntryBoy777

It does get pretty sizeable, for sure....hope ya enjoy it. We even have it growing over on the ditch bank, because Mom kept trying to thin it out, would dig it up and throw towards the ditch....it is still growing over there....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh yeh....I can bring a box of that stuff too...along with some Mississippi Mud....


----------



## Latestarter

I'm sure Bay would take all the mud you can carry since she lives on "beach front" property... all sand! Although she has a really nice gig going right now with some tree trimmers who are giving her all the gorgeous chipped tree/mulch a body could ask for! As for DevonViolet and myself, I think we have plenty of mud already and really don't need any more, but thanks for the offer!   just had a pack of coyotes light off over across the street... 

Thanks to all I got to visit with today. The pleasure was all mine!


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Glad you all did OK with that accident! 

Sorry about all the road troubles.

That garlic looks delicious!! 

We have a 22 year old goose. She gave us a few eggs a couple years ago that weighed in at 16 oz each!!! They were literally double the size of the other geese eggs. Even my big kid that eats 3 times what an adult can, couldn't finish one soft boiled Abby egg! They weren't as firm as the duck eggs, but a bit firmer than our chicken eggs. Yolks were beautiful! We stopped losing chickens to hawks once I got several geese....they alert so the chickens duck n cover, then the geese make a ruckus and run off other predatory type creatures. Years ago, some geese we gave to my uncle also saved their chickens from a fox, tore some fur and skin off the offending animal and alerted them to the problem in time to save the rest of their flock. Also, I hear more burglars are afraid of geese than of dogs....Mine are guarding the front yard as we speak!


----------



## Baymule

Mud pies make a lovely gift.......jus' sayin' y'all.......


----------



## Bruce

I think if @Latestarter were to bring a couple of 5 gallon buckets of mud each visit and take back a couple of buckets of sand (and vice verse), you two could improve each other's properties


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> I think if @Latestarter were to bring a couple of 5 gallon buckets of mud each visit and take back a couple of buckets of sand (and vice verse), you two could improve each other's properties


Skip the puny buckets----what about a truck load??


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

I could use about 2 tons of that tree mulch!


----------



## Baymule

HomeOnTheRange said:


> I could use about 2 tons of that tree mulch!


We have mountains of it!! We feel positively WEALTHY!!!


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Skip the puny buckets----what about a truck load??


Well if you both have trucks, I guess that would work just fine!


----------



## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> Well if you both have trucks, I guess that would work just fine!


I have a 12' trailer . . . just sayin'.


----------



## Bruce

One upping @Latestarter? How is he going to bring an equivalent amount of clay in return in the back of his truck??


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> One upping @Latestarter? How is he going to bring an equivalent amount of clay in return in the back of his truck??


Guess he'll just have to get a trailer.....he needs one anyway!


----------



## sadieml

Now this is what "community" is all about.  It's not just a proximity thing, it's the sharing, the practical closeness.  Swapping visits, meals, recipes, crops, even dirt.  I really love our BYH community.  

...and goats.  Let's not forget swapping goats!!!


----------



## Devonviolet

sadieml said:


> Now this is what "community" is all about.  It's not just a proximity thing, it's the sharing, the practical closeness.  Swapping visits, meals, recipes, crops, even dirt.  I really love our BYH community.
> 
> ...and goats.  Let's not forget swapping goats!!!


Girl, you got that right!  All of my goats came from BYH members!


----------



## AClark

Man that makes me feel left out, all the way out in Oklahoma, by myself, and when we were in Texas, we were in the wrong part of Texas! lol

Glad Late is doing alright, I haven't been on lately. Chores catching up on me and good weather giving me more reason to be outside!


----------



## babsbag

Don't feel bad @AClark, I am all the way out here in CA. Nobody comes to CA.  

@ragdollcatlady  I have heard good things about geese, but the problem is *I* am afraid of them. We used to go feed them at a local pond when the kids were small and I would keep my distance and practice seeing how far can I throw bread.  Those things can be mean.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I was looking at the back pasture yesterday afternoon and it was getting to be almost a foot tall and the weeds were getting ready to flower and set seed. I haven't been able to sleep the past 2 nights so last night I did some research to buy a lawn tractor. Looked at several different brands and settled on a Troy-bilt, 50 inch front engine riding mower. I was concerned that a zero turn wouldn't be able to tow like a pressure sprayer or cart etc. Also, the zero turns were substantially more expensive: http://www.troybilt.com/equipment/troybilt/super-bronco-50-xp-lawn-tractor





As soon as I got it home I gassed it up and got started. Man, I am very impressed! This thing cut through everything with no bogging down at all. Sticks up to 3-4" in diameter (OK, some were a "bit" bigger ) were no problem either, it chopped them right up into mulch. The turn radius is so tight, it's almost a zero turn mower. And the one thing I like probably the best is you don't have to disengage the blades to back up!  Also, it's an electric engage rather than the standard huge lever that mechanically tightens the belt and pulley system. This thing is leaps and bounds above what I was using in CO. I am so glad I left it there and got this new one. So in about 3 hours time, I got about 1/2 the back pasture done and about 3 laps around the front pasture, then the rain started and I had to stop. Tomorrow is supposed to be sunny and 70s so hopefully it will dry out enough that I can get the whole thing done and finished.

The only glitch it had was the left front mower deck wheel kept loosening and I had to tighten it back down twice. The 2nd time I really put some torque on it to hopefully keep it from backing off again. No biggie, it's a powerful machine and the bumping around and vibrations can cause nuts and bolts to loosen. I just have to check everything over and make sure anything that comes loose gets tightened back up.

Looking forward to meeting up with goatgurl and her sister over at devonviolet's place on Monday and I guess Baymule will be there as well. Gonna be a great get together! We're gonna do the disbudding 101 course and do a meal. I'm bringing dessert. No idea what I'll do yet, depends on how much time I have this weekend to put something together, or just pick something up at the store (yeah, I know, not very personal). We'll see. I plan to have a very busy weekend building stuff.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Nice looking ride there LS...what kind and size is the engine? Is it something a poor CntryBoy can afford?...


----------



## Devonviolet

Your new TroyBilt looks nice!  I must say, though, it looks a lot like our Husqvarna, except for the color, of course (ours is bright orange, not black). It has a 50" mowing deck and has a 24HP engine.  We really like ours!  It cuts like a dream and makes child play out of pulling our big yard wagon full of sod, out to the back pasture.   The only thing we wish they had done differently, is to allow more leg room getting in and out of the seat. We both have long legs, and it is almost impossible to get out, of the seat, without jamming our right knee into the engine housing.  I guess the designers had short legs. 

Yes, we are looking forward to having @Baymule with her DH, and @goatgurl, along with her sister, over, on Monday, for Disbudding 101, as well as food, fun and fellowship.


----------



## Devonviolet

CntryBoy777 said:


> Nice looking ride there LS...what kind and size is the engine? Is it something a poor CntryBoy can afford?...


Click on the link, it gives the specs and price.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

I really like all of my Troy-Bilt products.  I have had my rototiller for almost 30 years.


----------



## Latestarter

Maybe links don't work real well on phones... it's 24HP. The thing is a beast! I got a 10% discount for being ex military, should have gotten 5% for using the Lowes credit card and paying it off in 30 days, but it only gave me the one discount. It basically paid the sales tax for me. I also bought the 3 year service plan for it. Total was a little over $2,100.00.


----------



## Latestarter

All you folks in the SE states, I hope you're prepared for the storms moving east. @CntryBoy777 looks like you're gonna get them before dawn and it looks like the band runs from about TN all the way south to the gulf, so just about everyone else in the SE is gonna feel them at some point over the next few days. All the serious weather stayed pretty well south of me here, but we had one heck of a lightning show and some pretty hard rain. I guess there's a chance that we'll see more here tomorrow and later into mid next week.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We are all good here...have gotten .4" so far, but no severe weather....off/on showers til about 3pm today.


----------



## Mike CHS

The rain started here about two minutes after we got in the driveway with our chickens this afternoon and before we had a chance to finish getting their coops ready so that got done in the rain.


----------



## Baymule

Yay! Tomorrow is the BYH day!! Nothing more fun than a BYH get-together!!!!

Nice mower LS! If we had grass, we'd get one too, but we have sand and sheep......DH wants a mower so bad, but I ask him WHY? So he can make sand clouds??


----------



## Latestarter

So after getting beat up from riding the tractor over uneven ground for two days, here's the results:














Now I need to pull out the push mower and mow inside the fence... my yard   Not happening today though... I need a R&R day.

You know, I'm finding all these pustuals on my arms from fire ant bites. Never felt the bites when they were happening. I guess they're from ants that got blown out by the mower then back onto me from the wind. It's OK, they go well with all the scratches from dragging those green thorn vines down out of the trees while mowing close to the tree clumps. There are a few scratches from tree branches as well. Since it's the first time I've mowed the pastures I now know all the other work I have to do before next time.


----------



## Mike CHS

Our first year here I had to take pictures of the pasture every time I got it looking neat like that.  It only took me a year to acknowledge that I had several hundred pictures of the exact same view in our picture folder.  

It does look good and I know it's worth the effort.


----------



## Mike CHS

When are you going to get started with your goats or did I miss it and you already have them?


----------



## Latestarter

I'm taking a trip out to Las Vegas next week for a few days visit with my son and his family. It looks like their plans have changed and they will be staying out there for his wife's job rather than moving here to TX. The goats that I've deposited $$ on, one is due to kid within the next week, so too close to move her right now. The next is due the end of April. And the third bred doe, I swapped back to replace with an un-bred doe. So the goal right now is to bring the goats (and pig) here after I get back from Vegas, when the first kid is about a week old and 2-3 weeks before the next is due. That depends of course on the seller and if she feels the pregnant doe is OK to travel. If there's any doubt about moving them then I'll wait till the beginning of May after both does have kidded.

The pig, now that presents a bit of an issue... she's going to be right about butcher weight when I get her. So I'm kinda debating setting up a butcher appointment for her and just dropping her there when I bring her down. According to @goatgurl she's about 200-225 right now, so that would put her in the 300 range if I get her early May. We'll see.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Nothing gets ya better "Aquainted" with your land than mowing it. If it is anything like my experience, you'll swear every time ya hit the same hole or bump that ya are going to Do something about it....then ya get busy with something else...turn around and it'll be time to cut it again....Bam!!...there it is, yep gotta do something about that. There are a few hundred of those in the fields here, been hitting them for several yrs now...and just can't wait to check out some New ones for this yr....


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Well, I was looking at the back pasture yesterday afternoon and it was getting to be almost a foot tall and the weeds were getting ready to flower and set seed. I haven't been able to sleep the past 2 nights so last night I did some research to buy a lawn tractor. Looked at several different brands and settled on a Troy-bilt, 50 inch front engine riding mower. I was concerned that a zero turn wouldn't be able to tow like a pressure sprayer or cart etc. Also, the zero turns were substantially more expensive: http://www.troybilt.com/equipment/troybilt/super-bronco-50-xp-lawn-tractor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As soon as I got it home I gassed it up and got started. Man, I am very impressed! This thing cut through everything with no bogging down at all. Sticks up to 3-4" in diameter (OK, some were a "bit" bigger ) were no problem either, it chopped them right up into mulch. The turn radius is so tight, it's almost a zero turn mower. And the one thing I like probably the best is you don't have to disengage the blades to back up!  Also, it's an electric engage rather than the standard huge lever that mechanically tightens the belt and pulley system. This thing is leaps and bounds above what I was using in CO. I am so glad I left it there and got this new one. So in about 3 hours time, I got about 1/2 the back pasture done and about 3 laps around the front pasture, then the rain started and I had to stop. Tomorrow is supposed to be sunny and 70s so hopefully it will dry out enough that I can get the whole thing done and finished.
> 
> The only glitch it had was the left front mower deck wheel kept loosening and I had to tighten it back down twice. The 2nd time I really put some torque on it to hopefully keep it from backing off again. No biggie, it's a powerful machine and the bumping around and vibrations can cause nuts and bolts to loosen. I just have to check everything over and make sure anything that comes loose gets tightened back up.
> 
> Looking forward to meeting up with goatgurl and her sister over at devonviolet's place on Monday and I guess Baymule will be there as well. Gonna be a great get together! We're gonna do the disbudding 101 course and do a meal. I'm bringing dessert. No idea what I'll do yet, depends on how much time I have this weekend to put something together, or just pick something up at the store (yeah, I know, not very personal). We'll see. I plan to have a very busy weekend building stuff.



Sounds a lot like my Sears GT, made by Husqvarna. If it is really similar, the "deck wash" is the biggest joke around. At best it washes all the loose chlorophyll off the grass that is glued inside the deck. I have to peel it all out every time I mow and I never mow when the grass is wet. Stopped wasting my time and water on that "feature" It might be useful if you have a golf course and mow every time the grass grows 1/4". During the "rapid grow" season that could be twice a day! What I need now is one of those lifts that pick the front end up a LOT so you can get to the underside without taking the deck off. 

Yep, mowing in reverse is a must! I've found that mine isn't fond of backing up hills, the turf tires don't have a lot of "grip". Also, if one rear tire loses traction, it just spins and the other one does nothing and you go nowhere. 

Does yours have a cup holder? If so, it must be on the left. Don't know what idiot decided to put it on the right on mine so all the grass being blown out the side can come back and land in the top of the spill proof insulated "glass". Yum, freshly cut grass!

Mine has arm rests and I have to put them up to squeeze behind the wheel. 

Given you don't get real snow, I'll skip the issues I have using the 50" snow blower attachment 

Besides cost, you likely made the right decision on not getting a Z turn. My understanding is their transmissions are not up to pulling much of a load. 



Latestarter said:


> Now I need to pull out the push mower and mow inside the fence



Um, push mower? What's wrong with using the rider and a string trimmer around the trees?



CntryBoy777 said:


> Nothing gets ya better "Aquainted" with your land than mowing it. If it is anything like my experience, you'll swear every time ya hit the same hole or bump that ya are going to Do something about it....then ya get busy with something else...turn around and it'll be time to cut it again....Bam!!...there it is, yep gotta do something about that. There are a few hundred of those in the fields here, been hitting them for several yrs now...and just can't wait to check out some New ones for this yr....


I marked the rocks in the field with old ski poles "kindly" left in the barn under the drive bay by the prior owners. All the old skis went in the dumpster.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'll tell ya something else that is much better on a yard tractor over those Overpriced grass cutters. The "Ride" is way different unless ya are on level or gently sloping ground. The next time ya see one cutting on one and watch for a bit and just how much it "Jostles and Throws" the rider around. The only advantage they have is Speed....I quit doing things Fast in my 40s....


----------



## Bruce

I get pretty bounced around on my GT, nothing like "smooth" or flat here. Can't imagine what it would be on a Z-turn. Plus, if you move too fast it doesn't cut well anyway. My GT can theoretically go 7 MPH forward, 3 in reverse. Of course with no speedo, it is kind of hard to tell how fast you are going. I only use "high speed" when I'm done mowing and heading back to the barn and then only on the less bumpy sections.


----------



## CntryBoy777

@Bruce the reason we use a push mower around the trees are limbs, sticks, roots, washed down gravel from drive, water flow ruts, and elevation changes. It is easier to manuever the 21" deck than the 50" deck when on the highest setting, it is grounded on something. I would tear the deck off the rider in some spots here. A push mower will cut much faster than a weedeater, with less strain on the shoulders, elbows, forearms and wrists.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah. I won't need the snow blower here but am seriously considering either the bagger attachment or one of those pull behind leaf sweepers... Not for the leaves but for the god awful spiny gum balls... I have too many gum trees and those gum balls become real hazards to health and well being when they're picked up and jetted out the cut grass chute. They're like golf balls with spines and can break glass. I sure wouldn't want to be hit by one!

The way my yard is set up, the various obstacles, and the slopes involved just aren't easy for the tractor to do. I might be able to get a bit of it done but would still need to follow up with the push mower and the weed whacker. My seat doesn't have arm rests so when traversing some of the slopes it took muscle power to hold my butt in the seat and not to slide out the side. As wet as it was I had zero issues with loss of traction. Might have something to do with a 600+ pound tractor and a ~300 pound rider  No problems fwd or reverse. Cup holder is a joke as there's no real way the average user is going to be able to drive that thing and drink at the same time! Really!   I left my drink on the rear bumper of the truck and I could cruise by and grab a slurp when I needed one. My mug was too big for the holder in any case. It has the hose washout connection, which I had no plans to attempt in any case. My biggest issue is I'm going to need to clean up all the downed tree limbs, trash, and prune back the lower branches on the tree "islands" so I can mow up close around them. I do have a couple of washouts that I'll be filling and leveling at some point from the various rain gullies on the property.

So I was over at @Devonviolet 's place today for the goat keeping 101 course presented by @goatgurl and her sister. Disbudding and de-balling successfully accomplished! Little Wormwood handled it all in stride. I doubt he even knew what "hit" him. Lunch was delicious, Thank you all! Roast pork with gravy, rice pilaf, salad, blueberry cobbler with vanilla ice cream for dessert.

With luck I expect to have my goats and pig here in about 2-3 weeks. I basically verified that my pig will be going directly to processing. She should be danged close to 300+ pounds when she arrives here. YAY fresh pork to cook!


----------



## Mini Horses

I have a Troy built just slightly smaller, that is now 3 yrs old and still going strong!!   I was RFLMAO when I read the gumball details BECAUSE this one has unreal power spewing anything from the deck. In fact, I have the double bagger and it fills so fast I spend too much time emptying.   (I used fresh grass from bags to feed my pigs!)    When I purchased the pull behind sweeper I made sure to get one that I could "offset" to sweep the grass just mowed.   This machine will throw grass 10' with no problem.  Powerful machine.      

Also, mine pulls a tiller with no problem!!   I do take the deck off now, after I found it drug in the soft tilled ground too often.  Oh, the cup holder on mine generally has anything BUT a drink in it!

Your fields do look good.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh yeah... throws it 10 feet without a doubt! This is seriously a very powerful mower! My push mower (or my last ride-on in CO) would have never gotten through what this thing snacked on... It would have constantly bogged down and stalled. When the previous owner shredded the pastures late last summer before I first saw the place, it had grown rather tall and (with a brush hog) it left huge piles of dead grass. When I'd hit them with the mower, it took the load but shredded everything and sent out a huge cloud of dusty, dead, shredded, grass and since it was windy, I'd often get engulfed in it as it would get blown back at me. I could smell the mold spores that had developed in the piles. I wanted to make certain that stuff got chopped up and spread back out thin.

I cut everything down to 2.5-3 inches as I wanted to make sure everything got chopped and diced small, and spread out evenly to NOT have huge piles like before. I really should have hit it last fall    I then ran over the deep spreads to further chop them and disperse them. Some areas were dead underneath, others showed yellowish new growth that had been trying to break through the pile(s). Hopefully it will all come back pretty even. I may cut it at the highest setting (like 4") one more time before the real hot summer weather hits as I want it to survive and not die off/brown out.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> @Bruce the reason we use a push mower around the trees are limbs, sticks, roots, washed down gravel from drive, water flow ruts, and elevation changes. It is easier to manuever the 21" deck than the 50" deck when on the highest setting, it is grounded on something. I would tear the deck off the rider in some spots here. A push mower will cut much faster than a weedeater, with less strain on the shoulders, elbows, forearms and wrists.


I can see that, especially since I've grounded out more than once. Nothing more fun than trying to move a rider off a hump when the deck is lodged on it. But I guess my trouble spots aren't as numerous as yours, I mostly figured out how to approach them at a different angle. Plus 99.99% of the trees on my property are out past the fields In the area I usually mow there is 1 puny apple, 1 ancient maple and 2 firs. Oh and a few rocks I can't dig out so have marked with sticks so I go around them rather than over. I don't like the noise the blades make as they "top" the rocks. 

My first thought on the bagger verses sweeper is as @Mini Horses said, wouldn't that thing fill up pretty fast? Though if you got the sweeper you'ld have to put on the mulcher kit to keep from shooting the gumballs and require a second pass to pick them up.

I've done the "mow the mowed area". After Al cuts it with the sickle bar mower, there are swaths of tall downed stuff. He does it after he does his first hay cut so the wild birds and whatever other animals that "nest" in the fields are out. The first year I had him do it there were 6' tall weeds with thick stems that just laid down flat covering everything. By the time I decided I wanted to go chop it up I found they formed a mat with rotting stuff under it. I ended up picking that stuff up and moving it, no way the mower was going to chop up something that was effectively a floor. But yep, multiple passes on the huge grass clumps does chop up and spread it out letting some air and sun get down to the growing parts. That is my slow "pasture improvement" plan. Keep cutting it so the weeds don't go to seed though I only got partway through it last year and the people south of me do nothing to their field (only animals are a dog or two kept up by the house) so there are plenty of weed seeds to come back my way.

How are the fences coming since you will have your goats RSN??


----------



## Mike CHS

You may already know it but there is a chemical spray for Sweet Gum trees that mimics growth hormones in the plant and can prevent fruit formation from occurring in the first place.  It has no impact on the foliage and blooms.

I haven't used the spray but did the injectable on out place in SC.  I'm not sure how practical that would be if you have a bunch of trees like it sounds.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh those wonderful Sweet Gums!!...I was not laughing at ya LS, I was laughing With ya....
As ya know we have them here, and one thing ya have to watch on them is those top of the ground roots they send out....all along them they will sprout and grow more trees. If ya have that many there, I would get a chainsaw and thin them out some. They make good firewood. I have 2 bags of golf clubs I never use anymore and when ya was here should've given ya a few irons so ya could tune up your swing with them gumballs...
Mike, I've never heard about that stuff, but it sure sounds very interesting....do ya remember the name of it so I can see about getting some?....where?


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## Mike CHS

I had to look it up since it has been so long.  The name brand is Snipper and it's an a deflowering agent.  I don't remember what it cost but it wasn't cheap.


----------



## CntryBoy777

How appropiate... Snipper for "Gum-Balls".....


----------



## Bruce

You've been reading too many kid/lamb castration threads Fred.

I don't know just how sticky those gum balls are but from the sounds of it pretty much anything that would keep them from happening wouldn't be too expensive.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'll tell ya what I'll do for ya @Bruce , I'll use some as "Packing Peanuts" with your 2 pcs of wood. Tho, they won't be green, they'll be brown.....yes, there is a Difference one from the other....


----------



## Bruce

Um, that is OK Fred, I think they would probably be considered an invasive species up here and banned. 

Better to save them for your worst enemies. Feel free to not save any for yourself because I know you are a generous guy.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Your field looks great!  Is that a old cast iron tub I see in a view of the pictures?  Here are a few links if you every decide to look for something to collect the grass and leafs.
http://www.drpower.com/power-equipment/leaf-lawn-vacuums/
This is my favorite:  http://www.drpower.com/power-equipm...nd-leaf-vacs/prompt-for-ll2-13-28-pro-new.axd
Looking good @Latestarter!


----------



## babsbag

Sweet Gum grows here too, it is a pretty common landscaping tree but most people here call it Liquidamber. I am thinking about planting a few on the fence line as I love the colors in the fall.


----------



## Latestarter

I'd never heard of anything to keep them from fruiting... Just checked and apparently the timing of the application is critical and it must be done by an "arborist" (licensed individual?) and the application is $75-100 per tree and would need to be done annually... Which I can't afford considering the number of trees I have. But it says the gumballs themselves work great as fire starters and burn with a blue flame... So it appears that I'll have some tree trimming (cutting down and making fire wood) to do over time as well. Guess I better plan of doing that before I get all the fencing and cross fencing done.   The liquid amber is a non fruiting gum ball tree.


----------



## Mike CHS

We bought the stuff to inject from a landscape supply company.  It wasn't hard to do but like I said it was pricey even as a DIY.  I would have cut it down but this was a volunteer that came up behind the garage and we transplanted it.  We thought it was a Maple.  It was the 1st plant that Teresa and I did together so we couldn't just cut it down.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> We bought the stuff to inject from a landscape supply company.  It wasn't hard to do but like I said it was pricey even as a DIY.  I would have cut it down but this was a volunteer that came up behind the garage and we transplanted it.  We thought it was a Maple.  It was the 1st plant that Teresa and I did together so we couldn't just cut it down.


But you moved so you aren't stuck with gumballs any more 



HomeOnTheRange said:


> Your field looks great!  Is that a old cast iron tub I see in a view of the pictures?  Here are a few links if you every decide to look for something to collect the grass and leafs.
> http://www.drpower.com/power-equipment/leaf-lawn-vacuums/
> This is my favorite:  http://www.drpower.com/power-equipm...nd-leaf-vacs/prompt-for-ll2-13-28-pro-new.axd
> Looking good @Latestarter!


And "only" $1,700 (on sale from $2,200)  for the manual start!
I like their stuff but they are expensive. I have their 10 ton electric splitter. Not fast but not loud either and I can split in the little barn where the wood is stored so weather is not an issue. You could also get it with a gas engine for work away from power, or both. 

Just looked, apparently they only sold it from Aug 2011 to Aug 2014. Too bad, niche market I guess.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh, and yes, that is an old cast iron tub. Not a claw foot or anything special. The previous owners had it set up for a watering trough for their mini horses and I rolled it on its side to empty it as it was a mosquito factory. It will be righted and re-filled here very shortly and I plan to get those anti mosquito dunks/briquettes they make for animal water troughs to put in it so I don't have to deal with them again. Has anyone here used them: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Summit-12-in-Mosquito-Dunks-6-Pack-110-12/100334779

Also, has anyone used or have knowledge of this product: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/stock-tank-secret-2-oz


----------



## OneFineAcre

I don't think that there is any browse my goats like better than sweet gum leaves.
And they will strip the bark off of them and kill the smaller ones.


----------



## Mini Horses

Yep, than can kill a young tree real fast.  Especially love fruit trees..... what a tasty snack they are!!


----------



## OneFineAcre

I haven't seen much news  on fencing lately
How is that coming ?


----------



## babsbag

Our liquid amber had gumballs, I remember hitting them with the lawn mower and also walking on them barefooted. OUCH. But maybe the new ones don't, that was 50 years ago.


----------



## farmerjan

Don't spend alot of money on some "safe" chemical to stop the mosquitos.  If this is a trough that you will keep water in, and not let it go dry, get a couple of CHEAP little goldfish from the pet store.  The kind that are .10-.20 each that are called feeder goldfish.  Put them in there and they will keep all the larvae and all bugs out and they will grow.  We keep goldfish in all our water troughs. Sometimes have to deal with the blue heron stealing them,  and once when the spring went dry we had to get them out and kept them in a 5 gal bucket for a week  and once we got some rain the spring started running. 
Have had them over winter in the troughs that have water flowing thru them all winter.  And if something happens to them, well, they are "feeder goldfish" for a reason.  They will take care of the larvae, and I have had them actually breed and found about 100 little ones all swimming around.  Of course, they will eat their own if the food supply gets low.  I have been known to put a handful of goldfish food in the water troughs on occasion....
Every spring I check the troughs and get a new supply, if needed.  I will put about 10 little ones in a trough that holds 2-300 gallons so 3-5 ought to be about right for a bathtub.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

We love fish here too.  Had some feeders get about 8 inches long - until a coon 'fished' 'em out of the trough.  We changed tactics...grandson found some minnows swimming around in a really big puddle that was drying up.  We netted them out and stuck them in the troughs... they are still growing strong a year later.


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## Bruce

You beat me to it @farmerjan!

I was expecting mosquitos galore here with the pond but there are frogs and fish in it (*) and we also have insect eating birds like swallows. Hardly ever see a mosquito. Used to get eaten alive at the old house. In fact we never built the rear deck because it would be unusable. There is a brook that runs in the ravine behind the house and lots of "pools" for them to breed in but nothing to eat them.

* how they live through the winter is such a shallow pond I have no idea!


----------



## Baymule

Gum tree joke;

directions:
You pull this on an unsuspecting person, in the fall of the year when the gum trees have lost their leaves, leaving the tree festooned with gum balls.......

You: You know there is male and female trees, right? (if needed, expound on the trees that don't fruit, but are needed as pollinators for the female trees)

You: Do you know how to tell a male tree from a female tree? (standing near a gum tree)

Victim: No, how do you tell a male tree from a female tree?

You: (waving your arm toward the gum tree and looking up) This is a male tree. Just look at all those BALLS!


----------



## CntryBoy777

....
I have the grandkids thinking they are porcupine eggs...


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## Bruce

You better hope they don't want to hatch those @CntryBoy777


----------



## animalmom

Fish is the way to go on mosquito larva, hands down.  However the mosquito dunks like you pictured are real good too.  The dunks don't allow the larva to hatch so you never see the wiggly creatures.  Don't know about the barley ball except some form of that is touted in pond catalogs.  Amazon usually has a good deal on the dunks if you buy by the sheet, which I think has 24 dunks.

There is an anti-mosquito product out there that is called a "torpedo" and is a small black vaguely fish shaped item that you drop into the bucket/trough and it sinks so livestock doesn't get it.  It does not prevent the hatching of the larva so you see plenty of the wiggly disgusting things but they do not mature.  I don't like this one.  Who wants their animals drinking up dead larva?  Yuck.  Turns my stomach thinking about it.


----------



## samssimonsays

Baymule said:


> Gum tree joke;
> 
> directions:
> You pull this on an unsuspecting person, in the fall of the year when the gum trees have lost their leaves, leaving the tree festooned with gum balls.......
> 
> You: You know there is male and female trees, right? (if needed, expound on the trees that don't fruit, but are needed as pollinators for the female trees)
> 
> You: Do you know how to tell a male tree from a female tree? (standing near a gum tree)
> 
> Victim: No, how do you tell a male tree from a female tree?
> 
> You: (waving your arm toward the gum tree and looking up) This is a male tree. Just look at all those BALLS!


  I can't even!


----------



## norseofcourse

Latestarter said:


> Also, has anyone used or have knowledge of this product: http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/stock-tank-secret-2-oz


I've never tried it, but saw it in a store awhile back.  A couple ounces of straw in a burlap pouch, selling for more than you could buy a whole straw bale for.  If it works as advertised, that's great, but I guess my frugal nature would have me making my own.  Wonder if barley straw is needed or wheat straw would also work?  I don't have big enough water troughs at this point to consider something like it.

It seems to work kind of like the sacrificial anode in a water heater?


----------



## Bruce

Maybe I need some barley straw in a bag in my aquarium to keep the algae from growing. No idea WHY straw would work. I could use many bales of barley straw in bags in the pond. Talk about an algae farm!


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## CntryBoy777

norseofcourse said:


> I've never tried it, but saw it in a store awhile back.  A couple ounces of straw in a burlap pouch, selling for more than you could buy a whole straw bale for.  If it works as advertised, that's great, but I guess my frugal nature would have me making my own.  Wonder if barley straw is needed or wheat straw would also work?  I don't have big enough water troughs at this point to consider something like it.
> 
> It seems to work kind of like the sacrificial anode in a water heater?


I believe it has to be barley straw, it is a natural irritant to some things, similar to DE.


----------



## Bruce

So now I have to grow barley and when it gets cut, throw it in the pond??


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## Latestarter

Finished up the dry lot enclosure today. Used 9 cattle panels attached to the back yard fence.  I guess the total enclosure is like 32' x 80' running length wise along the back yard fencing. I didn't install a gate, just left one cattle panel connection open and closed it by carabiner clips. Was too dark to get a picture when I finished... I'll post one/some tomorrow. Will complete the hoop house tomorrow for their shelter.  Have all the stuff I need and charging the battery for the drill overnight. Bought a new Dewalt 1/2" hammer drill with 2 batteries, charger and case. Figured I'd need it with all the gates and stuff to drill the bolt holes. 

I think I'm going to get a roll of 3' x 2" x 4" welded wire fence to line the bottom of the cattle panels since it appears the holes above the two lowest runs are large enough that a kid could get through... Recommendations anyone? 

OK, so a couple of gold fish will work just fine with me. Cheaper that way too.  Tomorrow I'll also set the tub back upright and clean it out to get it ready. Then the last thing I'll really need is to get a couple of pallets and go pick up their food & such; hay, alfalfa pellets, goat chow, grain mix, loose minerals, food/water buckets, etc. 

I had bought a set of Dewalt hog ring pliers and it came with a box of rings. Since I didn't know what I was buying I'm a little miffed as the set has hog rings too small and too weak to hold cattle panels together. It barely holds welded wire together   This set "might" be OK for a hobby person working on flower arrangements or something. I bought it at TSC and the guy said it was what I needed for fencing... Oh well. Guess I'll go look for a real one tomorrow. I also bought a fencing tool; pliers/cutters/hammer/crimps/all in one... Tried to use it while working the cattle panels... ummm yeah... It's really designed specifically for working with barbed wire fencing and wood posts with wire staples... not so much cattle panels. Ended up doing the clips with a standard old set of pliers. The clips aren't really designed for cattle panels either... more for welded wire. I am SOOOOooooo looking forward to stretching and attaching fencing when that time comes.  So, I should be all set to go get my goats shortly after I get back from Vegas.


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## CntryBoy777

I don't believe you would want to put the Grain in the pond, just the straw....otherwise, ya will have some "Fermintation" going on....really close to your House...and no AC...so, an open Window with wind blowing from the pond...will have sharing a bunk with Merlin....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like some really Great progress there!!...
Personally, I would raise the 3' up about 4" from the bottom of the CP....this would add it to the top, and I would just use zipties right now to hold it in place. Then ya could find the right size hog ring for the bottom or top row for added support. It may not "Last Forever", but it will get ya by for awhile. I get the feeling by reading, it is planned for this to be temporary anyway, right?
Sure hope ya have Safe travel out there...stay away from the Strip...and good weather while there. Ya taking the truck?


----------



## OneFineAcre

Have you lined up / made contact with a vet that knows goats yet ?


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## babsbag

I use Barley bales in my Koi pond and it actually does work.


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## Baymule

I make cow panel "gates" by cutting them in half and hinge them with hog rings, obviously bigger and stronger rings than what you got. LOL


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## Bruce

I got hog ring pliers at TSC, nothing special and I'm sure not DeWalt. Had to find the hog rings, they were back on the movable racks with the medical stuff IIRC. They work fine to hold the CPs together though I use regular slip joint pliers to get them really crimped down after putting them on with the hog ring pliers (which have the nice slot to hold the ring). Premier1 sells a spiral "panel joiner" that you you "spin" down from the top. The presumably also work well as a "hinge" for a smaller section of panel. I've not tried them, as you did I have a few clips where 2 panels overlap and have to pull the panel away to go through. Not as convenient as a gate of course but it is by the rock pile I had to fence around. Don't figure to go out there much since the other side of that rock pile is on the neighborhood to the NW's property though I do have deeded rights to use their road to access my fields if I so desire. 

The clips work OK on CPs IF the T-post and a vertical in the CP are far enough apart. Not so well when they are close. @farmerjan had suggested a 1 "hole" overlap. That works pretty well if you put the post in the middle of the "hole" and clip just one panel and hog ring the end of one panel to the vertical of the other panel. I tried to get them on diagonally when I could so they held the panels horizontally and vertically. Didn't always work out so some are ringed on horizontals and nearby verticals. Whatever, hog rings are pretty cheap 

I have the same fencing pliers. They do have their limitations but they are good for cutting the wires in the field fence and the brace wire. The grooved "hammer" part works better on fence/poultry staples than does the face of a claw hammer. I cut my cattle panels with bolt cutters then file down the sharp edge. I suppose those with a battery operated reciprocating saw would use that, probably not need to do anything much to the cut edges. 

I would imagine any cheap 2x4 wire would work to keep the kids on the right side of the CPs. I might have to do that with some sections of my fence to keep the chickens on the right side.


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## Mike CHS

I have used the 2" barbed staples in a wooden post to be the hinge point for a hog ring.  Worked pretty well the few times I've don it.

We had one section on our last run that we could not find dirt to drive a post in.  It was just shy of 20' so we used a 20' sheep and goat panel on the fence posts we could drive and put the woven wire on the outside of that.  The panel is rigid enough that you can't tell there is a big space without posts.


----------



## Bruce

Those S&G panels must be stiffer than CPs I originally thought one could get away with posts only at the ends of a 16' CP but it gets really flexible without 1 in the middle.


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## Latestarter

Well, my hand and wrist are very uncomfortable at the moment. Something about "hammering shock waves" and arthritis... Knees aren't feeling all that well either. Oh, and did I mention my back?  Man I'm gettin' old... Anyway, the dry lot area for the goats is complete. The goat shelter is also complete. Have already passed that info on to @goatgurl so she knows as well. She's getting ready to get her big black piggie made into freezer fodder and offered to have mine done at the same time. She said if it was hers she'd wait a bit as she doesn't feel it's quite big enough yet so I told her to hold off and I'll get it done down here.



 


 

I was talking with a cattleman the other day while I was at TSC. He was loading up fencing material for ~2300 feet of 5 strand barbed wire. I asked him about the best butcher he's found around here. He recommended against the one I was going to use here in town. Said he "lost some pork meat there once" and has never gone back. He recommended me to a butcher he now uses exclusively in Sulpher Springs (@Devonviolet you might want to make note of this place)

Hopkins County Food Lockers   Butcher Shop
Address: 158 Putman St, Sulphur Springs, TX 75482
Phone903) 885-5241+

He said they do a real good business and don't even consider getting anything processed during deer season. He recommended calling several weeks in advance and setting an appointment. He said they do individual shrink wrap and flash freeze, and they also make sausage and the like. He said their breakfast sausage is very good and you can get it mild, regular, or hot.  I'm really looking forward to trying them out. Also looking forward to some real home grown pork as well.


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## Bruce

You mean @Goatgirl47 grown pork? 

Looks like you've been making great progress Joe! Mel will be so happy to have goats to watch over!


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## Mike CHS

That is a good looking pen.


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## CntryBoy777

I think ya did a Wonderful job there LS....
I believe your Girls will approve too. It feels really good when things start coming together for ya....makes those aches and pains just a little more bearable.


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## Latestarter

I really hate that I can't do what I ussta could... So like y'all say... just motor on and get done what I can get done and it'll all come together in time.


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## CntryBoy777

I usually get caught in the middle when the arguement is between the "Mind" and body, and have to wait for it to get settled before I can move on....


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> I usually get caught in the middle when the argument is between the "Mind" and body, and have to wait for it to get settled before I can move on....


Nap time!!! 

One post then another Joe! Now that you have a place for them to start, you have a little less pressure to get it done "now". You can start on the first pasture but not kill yourself getting it done.


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## Mike CHS

I don't get things done as fast as I did 20 or more years ago but I have a whole lot better time doing it.


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## Latestarter

So The yard was getting ridiculous and I did not want to deal with it with a push mower so I opened the gates, kept Mel inside and went after it with the new tractor. I'm pleasantly surprised. Even with the slopes it did the job well. I'll need to follow up with the weed whacker for the angles the tractor couldn't get. But that was a real time saver. I'm happy


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## Mike CHS

I can't imagine us being anywhere near ready to receive animals without our tractor.

Glad it's working out for you.


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## Latestarter

Oh, I was talking about the lawn tractor... not a "real" tractor... which I still don't own.


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## Mike CHS

Our lawn tractor has been a $ saver since we are cutting grass to feed the sheep.  

We have only had this Cub Cadet for less than 4 weeks and it already has 55 hours on it.


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## CntryBoy777

My Dad had a B-5200 Kabota tractor....actually, I would rather cut with the rider that that little tractor. It was too small and light for any serious work, so it was a deisel bush-hawg....it had turf tires on it and you'd loose traction on wet grass. I'm 6'2" and my knees were in my chest, you know Koreans are not really tall....
Going up hill, the bush-hawg was so heavy ya either had to lower and raise it, or steer it with the lft and rght brakes cause the steer tires were off the ground. I would love to have a tractor, but just ain't got the bucks right now. After the fence I have to get a vehicle of some sort...looking at P/U, but even a cargo van will do for us....
I know from your forearms down to your hands was Glad ya tried it out around the trees...


----------



## Bruce

My GT has a 54" deck. What I have found is that it is best to mow up and down unless the slope is fairly close to level. Otherwise the cut isn't uniform. Unlike @NH homesteader's DH I don't really care from the POV of "look" but it ends up cutting some grass too short for it's own good if the other side is cut to the right height.  But of course, because of the way the prior owners (or their contractor) made a flat place for the stupid pool, I really have no choice but to mow around it with one side higher than the other and the grass gets cut much too short on the "high" side. Nothing 50 yards of topsoil, a real tractor and a landscape rake couldn't fix  

While a belly mower is OK on a small Kubota B-series, both the sales guy and I agreed it seemed pretty stupid for Mahindra to offer one on their 35 HP REAL tractor (from back when I was looking before I stopped looking).


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## Latestarter

tried to go to bed at a decent hour... before 11... tossed and turned, couldn't sleep so decided to get up and make a cup of green tea with honey... Now I remember why I don't drink green tea and honey   Much prefer regular tea with french vanilla creamer and splenda.  I'd really like some milk right now but I'm all out and didn't buy any 

Hmmmm OK, so Bruce way up there in northern VT has a pool he worries about mowing around during his 2 months of summer... Maybe me, way down here in TX should cobble together an ice skating rink that I can worry about mowing around during our 2 months of "winter"...


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## CntryBoy777

I never worry about an uneven cut, grass grows and is cut again. With a 50" deck, the cut will be uneven unless ya are on level ground. @Bruce I would suggest either a different angle or use a push mower over the slope ridge.
Stay alert down there @Latestarter , looks like some pretty tough "Cells" coming at ya. Everyone be Safe in Tx today, it is suppose to be here this evening...
It won't be too much longer til ya can have Fresh LaMancha milk for that tea....all ya will have to be concerned with is if your hands will feel like milking it.


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## Mike CHS

There have been so much change for BYH'ers this year that I have lost track of who you are getting your goats from.


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## Latestarter

Just looked at the radar on NOAA... central part of TX is getting hammered right now and yeah, it's building north south of me and moving my direction. Looking pretty impressive. Looks like I have a couple of hours before it gets here. It's gonna hit @Baymule and @Devonviolet before it gets to me. Looks like the folks over in San Antonio are about the get slammed by a wall. @LMK17 and @Newgoatmom  Hope everything is tied down.

I'm getting them from @goatgurl up in Arkansas Mike. Hopefully in about two weeks. The first doe is due here in about 3 days and the next at the end of April.


----------



## Bruce

I have taken to going up the slope to the pool at an angle, then down at the top of the arc. I use the electric string trimmer where the mower deck doesn't reach. 

Push mower? What is a push mower?  Actually I have a very old Toro that years ago I got tired of taking the air filter off every time I wanted to start it, still wasn't easy. Finally took it in and the dealer decided it needed a part - for $150 plus installation. I think it was a $75 part because those places always mark up 100% on parts. Started using a reel mower given to us by some friends. Works OK as long as the grass is short, the ground is flat and you don't have much to do. They are both at the old house which I am working on fixing up to rent out.

Actually Joe, while "swimming" season is maybe 3 months long (for the more hearty, DD1 won't go in until it hits 80° and even then takes a good 15 minutes to hit bottom starting from sitting on the ladder). Mowing season is closer to 6 months. 24' diameter above ground pool. I refer to it as "an adult wading pool". When you are 6' 1" you can't really swim in a thing that is 3' deep at the edge, 5' in the center 24' across and round. Nearby tree dumps dry needles in it daily, people on the dirt road on the south side of the property kick up enough dirt that the pool doesn't stay clean for even 1 day.  Wife likes it, which means I spend hours each week cleaning it so she can use it after work. By the time it is clean enough to use most afternoons, I really have no interest in it at all.  And ... I get to spend $2K to get a new liner for it this spring


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## Latestarter

All I can say is "ouch"...   Maybe you should look into replacing it with one of the oval pools... only a bit more expensive than the liner replacement and long enough that you might could get in 3-4 strokes before you run out of pool...18' x 33'
https://www.poolwarehouse.com/shop/...nd-pool-kit/?gclid=CJr5mq76hdMCFYNXfgodoIoLJQ





You could probably get away with using your existing filter and such. I'm pretty sure you could probably make the center a little deeper as well... possibly to 5 feet. Since you're already doing solar electric, you could probably build a small solar heater unit for the pool as well so you could get more than 2-3 months use out of it.


----------



## Latestarter

So I got to thinking... I know, a rarity and dangerous... I figured I'd better figure out my income tax situation before I hit the road and come back & have to pay bills. Was a bit concerned about the property sale and how that would affect me. Was concerned I might once again be cutting a check to various govt agencies. Turns out just the opposite and I'm actually getting refunds from both fed and state   I like Turbo Tax, been using it for years, but wish it wasn't so expensive. Cheaper than a tax accountant though. Not quite enough to pay for my new lawn tractor, but close enough to make me happy. Still thinking "Whew!"

Got a text that my first goat girl is very close and could pop any time. Maternity wait has begun! Figured with all these storm fronts passing through maybe the pressure changes will cause her to go. So anyway, west bound and down tomorrow. Prob check in before I go but other than that, C-Ya when I next do. Take care all.


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## Devonviolet

Have a safe trip. I look forward to hearing the details when you return.


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## Bruce

The "problem" with "not much more than a new liner" is the cost of prepping the ground for a pool of a more useful shape. Lots of dirt to move around especially if it is flat on the bottom as opposed to having a "deep end" that could make use of the slope that I ASSUME was made by dragging dirt up a more gentle slope to make the existing "base".

That said I did half think about seeing what it would cost to get a new pool as you suggested. I think when I asked what the round liner would cost they said about half the cost of a new pool which I ASSUME meant if you didn't already have one and needed all the ground work done and it was the same size. Maybe I should still ask.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, be Safe out there and hope ya are able to Enjoy the trip. It is always good to see the family. Will be looking forward to hearing from ya again and all the adventures ya have experienced. Travel Safe my Friend....


----------



## Baymule

We were real tempted to get an above ground pool last year. After working outside in the heat and having to knock off by 11 AM, a pool would have been a treat. But that would be another project.....like we don't already have enough to do


----------



## Devonviolet

Since 2008, when I first learned about them, my dream has been to have a "swim spa":





Back then, they were costing somewhere around $6,000 to $7,000.  Now a basic 15 foot swim spa costs around $24,000!!! 

I gave up my dream years ago, when I started wanting to have goats and chickens.  I knew I could never afford it.  But, it would be nice . . . If I had unlimited funds.    Not gonna happen !!!


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## CntryBoy777

That's more than I paid for my 1st house!....course that was in '77....


----------



## Devonviolet

In '76, my Ex and I bought a small stucco house, on a corner lot, in Southern California, for $33,000. That was before housing costs started skyrocketing.

We sold that house, a year later for $53,000, when we moved to Texas. A year and a half later, it sold for $64,000.  Then, in 1981, I was watching the evening news, and they were talking about how the real estate market had exploded.  They showed MY house, on that corner lot and said, "Just take, for instance, this little house just sold for $90,000!"  So, in 5 years, it went from $33,000 to $90,000!!!

In 1963, my Mom & stepdad bought a 4 BR, 2 bath house, in San Jose, CA, for $16,000.  Recently, my sister and I were talking about that house, on the phone.  She looked it up on Zillow.com and they listed the value of that house at a whopping $1.2 MILLION!!!!  I never saw a penny of the increased value, of that house.

Mom died in 1981 and left the house to her husband, with the understanding that it would be left to the five of us kids, equally, when he died. My stepdad wasn't nice, and when he died, in 1993, he left the house to my half brother.  At that time, it was worth $525,000.  My brother sold it and donated most of it to a cult he belonged to.  Shortly after the money was gone, my brother was killed by a drunk driver.


----------



## Bruce

OK you win @Devonviolet   My parents bought the So. Cal house I grew up in (starting at age about 3) in 1959 for $15,500. I remember mom saying they had to work really hard to decide to pay that extra $500 but then $500 bought a lot more in 1959! A few years later they added on, enlarging the kitchen and adding a 3/4 bath and a larger living room. House then at ~1,600 sq ft. At the time that Prop 13 passed, the taxes were locked in at about $850 (and included trash service).

Mom and dad got divorced when I was 11, Mom got the house and lived there until she died in 2003. My sisters and I inherited the house, it sold for IIRC $425K. Not quite the jump your old houses made! I just looked at the current records. Whoever we sold it to must have gone underwater, it last sold in 2008 for $376K. Based on Google Earth History, they added an inground pool (right outside what was my bedroom). Musta lost a lot of money.

Current taxes $5,439 on an assessment of $448K, presumed actual value $582K.

Grammar school was .5 miles to the right, Jr. High 1 mile "down" and High school 1 mile left. The development that comes up from the bottom into the back of the property was an orange orchard through 6th grade. Big plans to scale the fence (ours) and shorten the walk to JH. Nope, that development went in during the summer. It is a little hard to tell but my parents bought that strip of land that goes behind the house to the right (and the same depth behind our house). The people that developed behind us wanted to keep their costs down and the neighbors to the right didn't want "their part" I guess. The house to the right of that strip behind the other house had a huge avocado tree that overhung our yard. We were allowed to take what was on our side of the fence. Yum! No avocado is better than the one you pick at THE right time.

Perhaps this picture might suggest (other than the heat) why I have NO desire to live anywhere near where I grew up. You can expand and expand and expand the view, it is all the same for miles and miles and miles.


And now back to @Latestarter's originally scheduled programming


----------



## Devonviolet

Well, @Bruce, the values may be higher. But, your story is impressive, none-the-less!  Actually, I think land values, in California are ludicris!  Although, I'm sure there are areas, that aren't all that outrageous. 

You mentioned the heat. I guess it depends where you are in CA. From ages 7-12 we were in Fresno - now THAT'S HOT!!!  I remember we had a swamp cooler on the roof. Walking from the house to outside was like walking into an oven!

The house that my mom bought for $16,000 was in San Jose. The heat wasn't as bad as Fresno. But, the smog made my lungs ache when it was bad.  So, I have no desire to move back to CA either.

Funny you should mention going back to Latestarter's programming. I was thinking, it wasn't really like hijacking his thread, 'cause he's on the road anyway. I was also wondering how LS's trip is going.


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## Bruce

True, we can keep "feeding" his thread until he returns. Wouldn't want it to die for lack of nutrition 

It was 115° 3 days the week I moved from Downey to Vermont in July 1979. No A/C in my car, no electric windows either. I was grateful to the "Freds" of the world on the long stretches, I could hide in the shade of the trailer in the next lane over. If I saw someone coming up from behind I would pull ahead of the semi and let them pass. If the trucker was coming up on someone I would drop back and flash my lights when I was clear so they could pass. Sometimes that meant some leadfoot had to wait a couple of minutes but the trucker had a clear lane to move into. And yes, I ALWAYS ALWAYS sat right squarely in their side mirror. I don't know if they knew what I was doing and I hope I didn't annoy them. I think not.


----------



## farmerjan

Safe trip LS


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## CntryBoy777

@Bruce a considerate 4-wheeler is Always appreciated...and a rarity these days and times.


----------



## Baymule

Devonviolet said:


> Mom died in 1981 and left the house to her husband, with the understanding that it would be left to the five of us kids, equally, when he died. My stepdad wasn't nice, and when he died, in 1993, he left the house to my half brother.  At that time, it was worth $525,000.  My brother sold it and donated most of it to a cult he belonged to.  Shortly after the money was gone, my brother was killed by a drunk driver.



Karma.


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## Latestarter

Back from my journey. 3100 miles of driving. Had an awesome visit with my son and his family and the 4 grands. Then came home via Colorado as my favorite oldest daughter is having issues so spent last night up there. Received a text with pictures right before I left from @goatgurl and my first doe had twins; boy/girl, and they are beautiful. I hope to have them here by this coming weekend. Tomorrow (today) is recuperation day, Tuesday is supplies day, so... soon after that I expect. I'll post pics as and when I can. Also will try to catch up on 6 pages of new posts... Thanks all for keeping my thread fed, happy, and healthy.


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## CntryBoy777

Congratulations!!....
Glad ya made it back, and glad to hear about your new little ones. Can't wait for the pics....


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## Mike CHS

That is a lot of miles and I know you are happy that it is in the past.


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## Baymule

You have a nasty storm headed your way, looks like it is over @Devonviolet about now. In the southern part of Smith county, there have been 2 funnel clouds spotted, glad I'm on the north part!


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## Latestarter

Wow... what a night. Thanks for the heads up Bay... It started here I would guess around 7-8pm and went all night. Lost power about 2am while I was on here trying to get caught up. When I finally woke up around 8-ish, the power was back on and though it's fully overcast right now, the T-storms and heavy rain have moved south of me & east into Louisiana. Looks like the whole mess has stalled out running east west across 1/2 of TX south of I-20,all the way into LA. At 4am during a break in the rain I went out and emptied the rain gauge... it was completely full at 5" so I have no idea how much more than that we got here. I emptied another inch this morning. I have drift piles of leaves all over the yard from running streams. It appears I'm going to have some erosion problems to deal with on this property... So all this rain has put a damper on me doing outside supplies today. The ground is a sponge that I don't want to drive on. Just walking on it I sink. So supply day is officially moved to tomorrow. I hope it will dry out some.  When I got back, there had been nothing at the house to indicate I'd had visitors while away, but then late yesterday afternoon I noticed one of the fence support poles that I'd had leaning against a vertical fence post had been moved to a different position... still leaning, but in a different direction, against a different vertical...  OK, now for some pics 

These were provided by @goatgurl   Here is my girl Bang on I believe 4/3/17.  Look at her udder and I believe she's a FF 








 



 



 



 

The boy (dark color) will be wethered to be a companion for the eventual herdsire.


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## frustratedearthmother

Ahhhhh!


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## CntryBoy777

Oh how Wonderful!....
I know the moved post causes concern, and a couple of cameras may be a good investment, especially being there by yourself....yes, ya do have Mel but he can't talk or give testimony as to an occurrance. I do believe that ya have crossed the "Threshold" and can rid yourself of the moniker of being a "Someday Farming Journal". Sorry ya are so soaked, but the extra rest sure won't hurt ya none....


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## Devonviolet

Wow! You had a similar night to ours!  I emptied the rain gauge at 3:00 AM with 4-1/2" and got an additional 1.10", for a total of 5.60" of rain. That's just WAY too much rain in one night.  It will take a while before we can get The garden tractor out back again.  I'm so glad we got the back area mowed on Sunday afternoon!

We had similar "drift piles", only ours were hay and cut grass, not leaves. When I went out to empty the rain gauge, we had a 12" wide X 3" deep river flowing past our back porch stairs.  I was glad I had a pair of crocks by the back door! 

That was so cool, that @goatgurl was able to get those photos of Bang kidding, for you to see! Your little doeling looks a lot like our Woody!  How exciting that you will have two more goats added to your herd, when you pick them up real soon!


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## CntryBoy777

Shoot @Devonviolet , we have creeks around here that are wider than a foot and 3" deep....
There again, we live close to the Mississippi River, so our understanding may be a bit Skewed....


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## Devonviolet

CntryBoy777 said:


> Shoot @Devonviolet , we have creeks around here that are wider than a foot and 3" deep....
> There again, we live close to the Mississippi River, so our understanding may be a bit Skewed....



   Well, considering that there isn't a river or creek, for miles, having to wade through a creek, at the bottom of the porch stairs, it very noteworthy here.  So, I'm guessing your comment about our understanding being it bit skewed, is pretty much on track!


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats on your new arrivals....goat math strikes again


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## Baymule

Awwww........you're a Goatie Grandpa!!!


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## Bruce

Congrats on your new goats Joe!!! 

This moving post, do you think someone has been hanging around your place? Nothing taken?


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## Mini Horses

Congrats on the new kids.    You will be needing to intro Mel to these farm "projects" .... not sure he will want to give up his status of "house dog".     Well, not quickly.  

Your dry lot looks great.    I wish my grass was green like yours!   Right now we need some rain, which you've have plenty of, as well as some more seasonal temps...coming on now, thankfully.
We has a couple monsoon type events but, we need that steady, soft, every 3-4 day rain of an inch or two, to get things growing.

I have about 1.5 ton of lime to get spread but, need some rain to help soak it in well.     Hard to water 15 acres.     Hope this isn't the beginning of a drought year!!!!!


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## Latestarter

Went and got free pallets and 12 small square bales of hay to start out with. The hay smells and looks terrific! Reminds me of what a horse barn smells like... kinda sweet and earthy. No weeds and virtually no stems, nice light green inside. I think the girls are going to really like it. I paid $6 a bale. I have another hay place about equidistant in the opposite direction that has 3' x 3' x 8' bales of NM and/or CO alfalfa. He states they weigh right about 850 pounds @ $110-115. I might check out getting one of those big bales as a treat for the girls but will wait till fall I think since I have soooooo much green here they can munch on right now.

I checked the run-off tracks from the big rain we had. It over-ran the stream bed by 3-4' of depth. Washed away all the wood fence posts I had laid out, and the debris tore down a large portion of the existing border barbed wire fence. I might have to reconsider placing a pasture fence right on the property line... May have to place it uphill to keep it out of the run-off and debris field. It has for sure changed my present fencing lines... I'll be enclosing the smaller pasture area first then doing the outer pastures that go down to the stream bed and property line. Less work for me too, so no real complaints... that property line is a mess of overgrowth, vines, and just nasty stuff.

It also raises questions about my ability to bridge that stream... If the water level will be 3-4' above grade then the bridge will just wash out unless I build up a road bed to elevate the bridge above that possibility...  It also brings into question my ability to fence off wooded pastures back in the timber to have the goats clear... They'd have been swimming as well. Oh well... it's all subject to change in any case, right? I didn't know the entire wooded part of the property was flood plain... Maybe it is, maybe not... another thing I need to discover/find out.


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh, "Mother Nature" will/can change plans for ya, and it may be a Good thing ya wasn't "Full Bore Ahead" doing the fencing, so ya could see the hurdles in front of ya, and waste time, energy, and $$. It will take a bit of time, but if ya can work on clearing some of the growth out of the ditch, the flow should increase and ya might not have as much over run and backup. That's what I'm trying to get to, but it will be next winter before I get to it, less critters, bugs, and poison crap to deal with at that time. It also may be worth having a couple of mounds of just dirt at least 6-10' high as refuge for the animals in case of flooding, or platforms to climb on.
I know ya can't wait to get your little ones and girls home with ya, but don't get your feelings hurt if they don't eat much hay, ours sure don't. They haven't eaten but may be 4 complete bales in the yr and a half we have had them, too much green available I guess....


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## Latestarter

I'll be positively thrilled if it turns out that I don't "need" to buy hay for them. As large as their pastures will be, they "should" have plenty to satisfy their needs and desires sans hay. I will of course keep some on hand regardless, just in case. I expect to be getting some sheep down the road as well, and I'm sure they'll help keep the growth down in the pastures also. Hopefully they'll each have their own different favorites among the weeds I'll have available for them to choose from. Initially, until the first enclosure fencing is complete, they'll probably need the hay as they'll most likely eat there dry area down in a matter of a week or less.


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## CntryBoy777

A few timely freshly cut limbs tossed to them can extend the browse, too.....especially honeysuckle, green briars, and sweet gum....seeing as how ya don't like those "Little Balls" anyway, and the wood is good to burn. Your own little "Process" by cutting limbs, feeding goats/sheep, cut up the "Skeletons" and let season for winter burning....anything else just put on a burn pile. Capturing a couple of barrels of that water, will help ya out in an power outage situation, too. You'll have more than Mel to plan the water for....5gal bkts out of that ditch will get pretty heavy setting tbem in and out of the back of your truck, too....


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## Mini Horses

OK -- you will need hay if it rains ... dairy goats don't like raindrops!!   And, they can/will eat that crap from the woods IF you can let them in when it is dry.        Train them to hot wire and use that for areas you want cleaned up.  Hey, maybe they are already hot wire trained?

From the sounds of it, probably a real log jam further downstream.   Sounds like a little bit of a "well, CRAP!" challenge.

Does Mel stay with you if you go to the back pastures?   Or do you have a roamer?

On our news stations we saw a video from a vet clinic, where a Pyr  (who is notorious for opening doors at home)  was caught on the night cams, opening his cage door, then a few other doors in the facility, wandering about a while, & finally the outside door!   He was found next day but, it was scary for all as they were concerned for his safety....and wanted him back.  A rescue.

I've seen similar cams catch a mare open her stall, proceed down the aisle opening other horses stalls, EXCEPT the one for her daughter.  She'd stop & nuzzle the full grown filly but, never let her out.   They'd been finding the horses loose....thought kid pranks....set cams.   Yes, they said she had never let her filly out.


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## Goat Whisperer

If you are truly milking these goats (you really should if you are marketing kids as dairy goats) they will need more than just forage. Every breeder I know and have seen that do a forage only diet while milking have extremely skinny goats. 

@Mini Horses I saw that video! Crazy!


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## Latestarter

They (lactating does) will be getting grain every day. All will get hay free choice, minerals free choice and of course treats to endear them to me   Matter of fact I've spent the past hour tracking down the particular grain and mineral mix that @goatgurl presently uses and where I can order it near me. The feed store doesn't carry the specific item I'm wanting but can order it in and they get trucks weekly. GG told me she took the liberty of buying me a first bag of grain so that will hold me till I can order in more. Just got a call from the feed store and placed an order to pick up next week.

I don't intend to milk them heavily right off the bat as I'm not set up to do so yet. I have none (read that as zero/none) of the equipment yet. I expect I'll hand milk them into a stainless steel container then filter it somehow... thinking white linen napkins from wally world... into a container to refrigerate. I need to buy/build a milk stand, and with my present wrist issue I'm not sure how long/well I'll do milking by hand. My fall back there is this: https://simplepulse.com/store/6-cfm-single-system/
I have to get FightBac spray (where do I get it? order it online?), I need to get cleaning wipes (What was it you used @animalmom ?) or some (efficient/effective) way to clean the udder before milking, lots of stuff to do/get 

I'm proceeding similar to most first time chicken owners... you know, the ones who get their chicks and they are a year old  & flying around the house before the coop gets built?   I know nobody here would ever do anything like that, right?


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## animalmom

You can get Fight Bac at Caprinesupply.com or probably KVVet or Jeffers.  You can buy it direct at fightbac.com or call 1-800-656-6007.  I usually go direct and order a case at a time... but that's just me.

For goat wipes I like a personal cleansing product I get at WallyWorld, but it is outside and I am inside so I'll have to send that information separately, but don't worry I'll send it.  The wipes work very well for my Nigerians... not too sure it the overall size would work for the LaManchas since the darlings are a wee bit bigger.

Stay tuned.

Instead of the linen napkins, get yourself a yard of light cotton muslin.  Light being a designation of the weight of the material.  This means you have to go to either a yardage store or WallyWorld and apply some of your charm to a sales person.  You want cotton muslin, not a blend.  It is my personal opinion that a blend doesn't drain as well, doesn't last as long, and doesn't clean up as well as 100% cotton.  100% cotton can be bleached, a blend can not be bleached.  Take your yard, wash it first, then cut it into 4 equal size squares and voila instant strainers.  If it works well for you then go get some more and make enough to go for a week and throw them all in a hot water wash with bleach.  I would not even bother hemming the darlings as muslin will only fray so much... I use muslin to strain my cheese and did not hem.  The fray is very negligible.


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## CntryBoy777

It's like most anything else in your "Life", there is uncertainty about a first "Endeavor"...trying to cover your "Bases"...until ya work out the routine...then, things go much smoother. But, those animals will most certainly "Push" ya, cause they will always be "Waiting" on You to perform the "Work" for their "Comfort"...but, the more varieties ya have the broader the "Focus" has to be, because they all have a "Different Routine" and they don't much "Cotton" to scheduling "Changes"....they will All make sure ya get "Told" about the "Mishap" too...
I'd wait a wk or 2 for milking anyway, so you all get to know each other, before ya start manipulating her and add to the stress of moving...new surroundings, smells, sounds....and with kids, too. Give ya some more time to be prepared for the "Undertaking" there.
One suggestion, since your not a "Morning" person, with new animals, it is best to establish your "Routine", than to try to learn theirs. It'll take just a bit, and they will know what to expect, around your schedule. You'll do Great, and things will be just Fine


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## animalmom

OK, here is what I use to clean udders before milking (like y'all are just dying to know):  Pure'nGentle Wipes from Walmart.  Hypoallergenic and alcohol-free (although sometimes a prudent application of alcohol to the one milking, applied internally, is sometimes appropriate in cases of stubborn does).  The wipes  have aloe and Bit E.  Size 6' x 7', 90 to a pack and the cost is 98 cents.  I've been using this product for several years and find it does a good job of removing dirt/hair/godknows what from the udder and teats.


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## frustratedearthmother

animalmom said:


> although sometimes a prudent application of alcohol to the one milking, applied internally, is sometimes appropriate in cases of stubborn does



I had to read it twice - but I thoroughly agree!


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Went and got free pallets and 12 small square bales of hay to start out with. The hay smells and looks terrific! Reminds me of what a horse barn smells like... kinda sweet and earthy. No weeds and virtually no stems, nice light green inside. I think the girls are going to really like it. I paid $6 a bale.


What kind of hay is it?


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## Devonviolet

I just realized that you have been posting. It wasn't showing up on my alerts.

Sorry to hear about you losing wood posts to your creek flooding.  I guess better to find out now, rather than dig all those post holes and stretching fence, to find it washed away, later, due to flooding.  I like @CntryBoy777's suggestion of building up a dirt mound area, for the livestock to climb onto, in case your whole pasture floods some day.  A bridge, going across the creek would make things a lot easier. So, I hope you figure out a way to make that work!

As far as milking, you saw the simple vacuum pump system we put together, using a FoodSaver rechargeable battery system (from Walmart), some plumbing fittings, tubing and a 60cc catch tip syringe.  It is a LOT cheaper than the SimplePulse system you are looking at online. There was definitely a learning curve. But, there is probably a similar learning curve with the more expensive system.  Falina is a first freshener, so that made it a little harder, in the beginning too.

Now that I have to hang of it, it isn't a problem. My biggest problem now, is that Woody is drinking a lot of milk, so there isn't a lot of us, when I milk in the morning.  That will improve when I am able to separate Woody & Falina at night, and then even more so, when I wean him.

I don't use store bought wipes, to clean the girl's udders.  I just take 2 bowls of warm water (one with mild dish soap & one with plain water), 2 clean wash clothes and a towel, for drying, with me when I milk.  It is a lot more sustainable (cheaper) that way.

For filtering, I do it in 2 stages: I use a brass reuseable coffee filter, to filter out gross particles (i.e. hair), for the first stage and then a stainless steel filter, that I got online at Caprine supply:





It has a heavy stainless steel ring, that holds the filtering disk in place.

http://www.caprinesupply.com/stainless-steel-mini-strainer.html

It cost $17.95 + shipping.  I also bought the 3-5/8" fabric filters, that you need for this filter.  It works really well, for filtering out the tiny particles (i.e.dust & pollen in the air), that the brass filter doesn't get. I got carried away, and ordered too many. So, if you decide to get this filter, I will sell you a package of 100 filter rounds, at my cost ($7.15 - normally $7.95), minus my shipping costs.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I checked the run-off tracks from the big rain we had. It over-ran the stream bed by 3-4' of depth. Washed away all the wood fence posts I had laid out, and the debris tore down a large portion of the existing border barbed wire fence. I might have to reconsider placing a pasture fence right on the property line... May have to place it uphill to keep it out of the run-off and debris field. It has for sure changed my present fencing lines... I'll be enclosing the smaller pasture area first then doing the outer pastures that go down to the stream bed and property line. Less work for me too, so no real complaints... that property line is a mess of overgrowth, vines, and just nasty stuff.
> 
> It also raises questions about my ability to bridge that stream... If the water level will be 3-4' above grade then the bridge will just wash out unless I build up a road bed to elevate the bridge above that possibility...  It also brings into question my ability to fence off wooded pastures back in the timber to have the goats clear... They'd have been swimming as well. Oh well... it's all subject to change in any case, right? I didn't know the entire wooded part of the property was flood plain... Maybe it is, maybe not... another thing I need to discover/find out.



Might not be in a FEMA flood plain..often small streams are not identified  by FEMA as flood prone. As far as the creek and fences, it's pretty easy to fix so they don't wash away. I have several creeks, arroyas or canals running thru mine that have all seen floodwater running over the top of the fences that cross them. Never lost a fence. Sometimes, one will lean if heavy debris piles up against them, but nothing to straighten back up once the water recedes. For that matter, 3/4 of my place has seen water rolling over it.
 

 
The key is big posts, and TIGHT HT wire. 
I can come up and look at yours sometime and see what the solution is--there's always a solution.
I ain't much on giving up any pasture on account of  a little water.


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## Latestarter

I've been thinking maybe I should buy telephone poles and cut them down to ~10' lengths and use those along the border that floods. Aside from the fact that they're generally pretty thick, they are also soaked in Creosote which takes a long time to leach out. Maybe some of the new railroad track support beams... they are loaded with creosote. I think I'll wait on the boundary line until my son is here this summer and rent a 2 man auger for those posts. Maybe get some others augered out at the same time.

There's plenty of high ground in the present pasture(s) that the animals will never have to stand in water. I'm just not sure of the "back 40" that I haven't even looked at yet. I'll get around to it. Thanks for the offer @greybeard I've seen the pics you've posted of your place 80% +/- under water. I appreciate your offer & may take you up on it down the road if you're still willing.



OneFineAcre said:


> What kind of hay is it?


  It's a mix of bermuda 85 and tifton 44.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I'm proceeding similar to most first time chicken owners...



All right LS! Doing it right the first time. Wouldn't be nearly as much fun if you were all set up first, right? 

About sticking those telephone poles in. From comments others have made, even the 2 man augers are pretty hard on the body. Maybe rent a tractor with a post hole digger for a day? ASSUMING you don't have rocks, I think it would go pretty fast. Plus you can use the FEL to lift the posts and lower them into the ground. I know how much a 6" diameter 8' post weighs. I sure wouldn't want to be trying to get a 10' telephone pole positioned and dropped.


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## Mike CHS

My son and I rented one many years ago in Florida and it worked fairly well in that sandy Pensacola soil.  My son and I were both pretty strong but it took all that we had to keep that thing under control.

They also make an auger that is towable and self propelled (although slow) once you get it going.  It seems that most of the big name rental companies carry them.

Here is a link to one just to show what they are if you haven't seen them.

https://www.sunbeltrentals.com/equipment/detail/1167/0700033/post-hole-auger-hyd-tow-behind/


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## Bruce

The closest one to me is 3 hours away but otherwise it sure looks easier than a people held one.


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## Latestarter

Hog pen is done and ready, feed/slop bucket and water bucket in place and ready to fill to lure him out of the trailer tomorrow, hog feed has been purchased. I wanted to get grower finisher but they were all out... Goat pen is done, hay is there, water trough filled (no gold fish yet), noble goat feed/chow is ready to go. Minerals will be there later next week. grain for the lactating does will be coming home with me, at least the first bag. I ordered more and it will be here with the minerals late next week. I'm sure they'll live that long without them. Top has been crafted for the trailer to prevent flying pig escapes. Animal cage has been placed back in the bed of the truck and strapped down firmly to prevent it flying out. So, tomorrow is the big day... I go to get my animals. 

Hope everyone has a very nice Easter.


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## frustratedearthmother

And, I trust there will be lots of pics when you get them home......!


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## Southern by choice

you gotta get a picture of this! Trying to figure how your gonna do two does, their kids and a hog in the back of a truck! 

So exciting getting your goats! Can't wait for lots of pics!


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## CntryBoy777

Oh I know your Excited and just beaming inside....
I am so Happy for ya, and it will make the physical pain diminish just a bit and seem worth it All. It has been an "Eventful Journey" to get to this point and now it is your very Own....not just something ya read about and comment on with others.


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## Baymule

You gotta take pictures!!


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## Latestarter

OK, so, who knew that a 200 pound hog could climb a 4 foot wall, squeeze through a narrow opening, and leap to freedom, while traveling at 65 miles per hour?   Here's the picture when we loaded her up before departing for home:






And here's the same trailer some 15 minutes after leaving for home, just after crossing back into OK:





While driving I saw her stick her snout up through that 18" gap between the lift gate and the cattle panel pieces strapped down to (I anticipated/expected) keep her from climbing out. Well, it seems a hog's hooves are strong enough to climb that lattice work on the gate and up, over and out she went. I never saw her hit the road, but when I got stopped I saw her going down the bank and into the woods (tall grass moving) at the side of the road. So instead of the king's new clothes, I'll be eating the king's tasty bacon... MMMmmmmm boy does that taste good... 

So we disbudded both the babies while there. @goatgurl did the little doeling and I did the buckling. We didn't castrate since he's only 2 weeks old and I want his plumbing to mature a bit as I expect to keep him  as a companion to the eventual herdsire.  I'll deball him when he's about 8 weeks old.




Here are the girls loaded up. Dot is in front on left (pregnant with twins  due the end of the month). Back right is April, short for Apricot, not bred. then front right is Bang who had the B/G twins a couple weeks ago. They are packaged in a crate located behind spot:



The little girl is in front and you can't see the buckling behind her in the crate.


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## Mike CHS

Our trailer has a ramp like that so I'll keep your experience in mind if we ever get a pig.  

Good looking animals all.


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## CntryBoy777

Hopefully the pig will find its way back home, since ya was only 15mins away...and ya can make another attempt to get it home with ya. That is just insane....and a very big Oh S*it moment for sure.
Your girls all look really good and hope the transition goes well for ya. You'll have to keep pinching yourself, so ya won't think it is just a "Dream", because ya have more than Mel depending on ya now....Mr FARMER Man


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## Baymule

That pig must have heard you licking your chops in anticipation. Who knew? You're just going to have to spring for a livestock trailer for all this animal hauling. We bought ours before buying our first batch of feeder pigs and it sure has come in handy.


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## Latestarter

So I'm trying to post an update and now my mouse starts acting up. It did this a week or two ago and I changed the batteries. They can't be dead this quick! So this mouse gets trashed and off to wally world I go to get a new mouse so I can finish posting. So new mouse in hand, here's some more pics:

















You can see Bang (momma doe) barking at Mel. Mel was like "Ho Hum"... He was pretty excited initially, then kinda lost interest. He's inside with me laying in the air conditioned comfort sleeping while I type...  Some killer LGD huh?  He'll be outside overnight, though not in with them as yet. Will give them a week or so to get acquainted and let the goats get comfy with me, then introduce them close up. Just as soon as I can get that pasture enclosed, he'll be out there in the pasture with them and I'll only pen them at night but he'll have full run of the yard and pasture. No baby goats in the water trough yet  The adults have had some goat chow, plenty of fresh greens, and some hay. They've found the water and had drinks. 2 of them have had animal cracker cookie treats (Mel got a couple too).

Oh... and as an aside, I'll be doing the Craigs list search for a couple of feeder pigs and all livestock that can't be transported in the truck bed cage hence forth will be relegated to a legit livestock trailer. I'll either buy one or rent one from Big Tex Trailers. No more flying livestock for me!

That pig won't find her way home... I'm sure if she wasn't badly injured she's already running with a group of wild hogs there. Their smell may be what drew her to climb out. Well, that and freedom.


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## Baymule

Your goats look happy and Mel will still act as a deterrent to coyotes if he is next to them in the yard. I found our trailer on Craigslist for $2800. I've seen better ones and I've seen worse ones. We are happy with ours and it is worth every penny.


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## Baymule

Oh, a friend of ours got a Hampshire 4H "reject" piglet and put in with ours. We call her J-Lo because of her bodacious butt. I can ask if the person he got her from has any more.


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## Mini Horses

Lovely goats and I'm SURE they are loving that beautiful green grass!!   Sorry about the pig....they really are far more agile than they look.   

I had a spiral ham for dinner -- yep, hams at the grocer!!


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## Southern by choice

Oh nooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe it!  


I am sure that took a good emotional toll and probably made it far less exciting getting the lamanchas in.
So excited for you! This is really cool and GG is such an amazing person so happy you and DV got her goats!
I am a bit jealous though.... y'all have gotten to meet her in person! 

Well, LS your life is forever different! Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mike CHS

Those pictures are the epitome of "content".  I'm glad you got them home and settled.


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## Southern by choice

Just saw the pics! Must have been typing when you posted.
Sweeeeeet!  They will be so happy.

Mel will more than likely take more than a week to go from 2 years as a companion dog to a LGD. (told ya ta get some wethers ) 
I hope he does end up a LGD.  Takes time to switch "herds".  Eliza has ben with chickens for a year or a year and a half now and we just got rid of the last of the chickens. A few we kept and moved... she now has a bunch of baby boy goats to take care of. I think she really missed the goats. They cuddle with her at night. She "looks" happy. Yet she is distraught over the fact we have taken the geese away. She will get use to it though.

So what are you naming the kids? (I may have missed that)  

BTW the property is beautiful! Just beautiful!


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## Bruce

Oh man!!!! Something you could never have anticipated. Wait, you DID anticipate it, plan for it and she went "over the hill" anyway! I can't imagine how awful you feel. 

Does @goatgurl have LGDs? If so the goats will be used to having a dog around. The people I got the alpacas from have a "housepet" GP and a "housepet" herding dog but they were never in the same area with the alpacas yet when Merlin arrived it didn't take very long for the three of them to figure things out. We had him on a leash for awhile and he smelled their poop pile. Then I had him on the opposite side of the gate in the alley so he could see and smell them them. No issues so off leash he went. At some point that same day he went around through their door and sniffed their butts. I guess he was connecting them to the poop pile. They were like "WHAT ARE YOU DOING BACK THERE??!! But he was satisfied and came and went as he pleased. They figured out he wasn't a problem. Now if they would chase woodchucks and NOT chickens, things would be better!


----------



## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear about your pig making an escape, what a bummer.  Congrats on the new herd!


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## TAH

Congratulations @Latestarter!

Sorry to hear about the pig...That would stink! 

Hope Mel turns out to be a wonderful LGD for you soon!


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## frustratedearthmother

What's that old saying?  When pigs fly?  Hmmmm, maybe yours did!

And now I need to apologize for being so flippant.  I do hope she's not injured and can make some genetic contribution to the feral hog population.

Goats look great!  Pen looks great, grass looks great, hoop house looks great!  Hope Mel decides they're great too!  Congrats on your first day as a "real" farmer! 

Something to keep in mind - NEVER say never when it comes to what an animal is capable of....


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## babsbag

I don't have a livestock trailer but I do have a 2 horse horse trailer. It isn't pretty, but it is solid and it works. I paid $400.00.  I can haul a few of anything with no worries about escaping and I have even raised chicks in it one year when I was raising 50 meat birds. 

Sorry about the hog...


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## OneFineAcre

Too bad about your pig
Goats and place look great


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## Latestarter

Thanks all. Still a little shocked in disbelief that the hog was able to climb that. I really thought I'd covered it enough to prevent that. Well, now I and all of you know better.   Thanks all for your commiserations on my lost bacon 

Mel is out back laying in his hole up against the back of the house overlooking the hoop hut. He just lit off barking and went down by it. I told him it was OK, the scratching he was hearing was the goats inside  He figured it out and went back up to his watcher hole. The kids went back inside the crate... I placed it inside the shelter with the door open and sure enough, they went right inside to lie down. At one point the buckling was standing on top of it swaying it back and forth like he was a surfer dude. 

I really think the girls will settle down quite well and soon. I bought them each new collars and 3 lawn "stakes" with 25' swivel leads so I can eventually let them out to trim the field a bit. There's plenty for them to eat, that's for sure. And I'll only need the stakes until I get the fence done.

Southern... I didn't mean I expected him to be full LGD after a week... I meant I'd wait that long to let them be nose to nose and bring him inside their pen. They were around a (2 now) LGDs at GG's place, but I have to say, Mel is substantially larger, heavier, and more of a presence than Katie is. I also didn't realize just how green this place is of late until y'all mentioned it. I went and looked at the picture and you're too right... I need to mow again already! 

@Baymule, since you seem to know lots of folks who have pig(lets)... sure, if you find a couple of heritage breed feeders, I'd be interested. I mean I have a hog pen put together and 50 pounds of hog feed sitting here not doing me any good at the moment. I'll commence to looking myself shortly... Probably wait till the first of next month (payday) anyway.

With the last storm flooding I've had to modify the fencing order so I need to head over to the Priefert back lot again and get a couple more gates that I'd thought I could wait on.

And now that I'm a doting goat daddy, I'm really worrying that I don't have more secure night space for them.  I'm really worried about the numbers of coyotes we have around here. I need to get an actual building up where I can safely secure them inside at night. It will also make it a lot easier/nicer to milk them with an inside room.


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## greybeard

Perhaps this pig is smarter than most LS and has read this journal and of your other recent driving mis-adventures and decided it was safer to risk jumping and walking to it's new destination....


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## Latestarter

Hadn't considered that but I imagine that's as likely as anything else. It's new destination and the destination I had in mind obviously weren't the same...


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## greybeard

I guess the feral hog herd could use some new genetics anyway..


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I meant I'd wait that long to let them be nose to nose and bring him inside their pen.


I wouldn't wait that long. @Southern by choice told me not to worry about Merlin and the alpacas, they would work it out. Let them see each other up close as soon as they wanted to. She was right. 

Merlin was actively with sheep and maybe that makes a difference. Still I think taking Mel up to the fence so the goats can come over and check him out wouldn't be a bad thing. They already know LGDs are their friends and size probably doesn't matter all that much to them.


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## Baymule

Hey LS! I just checked Craigslist and found this;

https://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/6090131838.html


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## frustratedearthmother

Nope - that trailer won't work for LS - it has a gap above the back door, lol!  (but otherwise looks pretty good!)


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## Pastor Dave

That is pretty close to what I imagine I want "when the time comes".


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## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> Nope - that trailer won't work for LS - it has a gap above the back door, lol!  (but otherwise looks pretty good!)


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## Mike CHS

That trailer looks like ours but ours is closed at the top.


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## Latestarter

No gaps allowed going forward... nope, nada, no more, never again! There shall be no more flying pigs or other flying livestock in my future, while being transported! I do however fully intend to have a decent selection of legitimately flying livestock at some point to include chickens and turkeys. I was expecting to go out and remove all the tie down straps and cattle panel pieces from the trailer today but it's miserable weather for it so I'll postpone it till later. By the time I got the girls settled in last night it was late and I was tired so didn't feel like messing with it. I still keep in mind that Big Tex trailers is 10 miles from me and when I got my trailer lights repaired there they told me that they rent trailers as well. I can rent a 16' livestock trailer for ~$65 a day... that's a lot cheaper than paying 5 grand for it plus yearly taxing/registration on it. For the most part, any movement I'd need to do could be done in a day, and I don't "need" to do it on a weekend forcing multi day rentals and I won't need to do it more than a couple of times a year.  It would take almost 80 move days to cover the cost of the trailer alone. 4 moves a year would cover me for 20 years 

Bruce; Mel has direct fence access to them and they him. The one boundary fence is to my back yard. When I went out this morning to give them some food, both babies were still sleeping snuggled up inside the crate. I pulled one out and brought it over to the fence for Mel to sniff all over. He was very interested   Mel hasn't been up close and personal with goats in almost 2 years. He's been strictly a companion dog for me. When he was last with goats, he had his 9 brothers and multiple trained/experienced adults with him/them to keep everything well grounded. He hasn't seemed to display a huge amount of interest in them yet aside from them being a novelty. It's going to take a little time to get him back to where he was prior to me taking him home with me.

The girls aren't so happy this morning as it's gray, dreary, damp, and has been raining off and on. It started lightening flashes around 3:30 am and I got up and closed up the house and turned on the AC for the humidity. When I went out to feed them around 8-ish (not raining), they came out to eat but other than that, they've spent most of the day so far inside the hoop shelter.

Bang is being a really good mom and I've seen her feeding both kids simultaneously so her udder is staying really even. Those kids are really drinking! I think herd queen is in process of being determined between Bang and Dot... The little one, April, is gonna be the bottom of the ladder and I think I'll need at least 2 and maybe 3 feeding buckets as the 2 kept pushing April away from the feed this morning. I'd feed her directly, but she's too skittish and runs away from me so as soon as the feed bucket hits the ground, the other 2 are all over it.

I'm a little nervous about the cattle panels as I've seen the kids stick their heads through to nibble outside and I think if they really wanted to they could still squeeze through. I hope they don't try for at least another week, by which time they'll be too big to go through. So now I need to think it through before Dot has her babies in a week or two. They will almost definitely be small enough to go through. I think I need one of them shepherd's crooks...


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## CntryBoy777

A cheap temporary solution for the gaps, is a roll of 3' wide poultry wire and zip strips I would put it outside instead of inside the fence. It not only keeps them in, but could aid in keeping predators out, or at bay til Mel or ya get there.
That trailer rental sounds like a really good solution to that situation.
It really is a shame ya didn't get to spend the day with your girls...and the rain doesn't put them in Welcoming mode. That mess started coming thru here about 11:30, we had just got back from a trip to town when it started...no "Goat Walk" today, had to use the inside feed room. Which brings me to my question....how many CPs are in your "Hoop Hut"? If ya don't mind me asking....


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## Devonviolet

Wow!  What a bummer about your flying pig!!!  I was shocked when you said it got out and you watched it run down into the woods. I can only imagine how upset you were!  



Latestarter said:


> So instead of the king's new clothes, I'll be eating the king's tasty bacon... MMMmmmmm boy does that taste good...


IDK, doesn't sound very satisfying to me . . . 



Southern by choice said:


> So excited for you! This is really cool and GG is such an amazing person so happy you and DV got her goats!
> I am a bit jealous though.... y'all have gotten to meet her in person!


Yes, we are both so blessed to have gotten @goatgurl's goats!!!  

And GoatGurl is a treasure, for sure.  It has been a pleasure to get to know her. She is a real sweetheart and SO knowledgable about goats and other related topics.


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## Latestarter

I used three cattle panels and overlapped one square on each side of the center panel. Since (the bottom) one side has 2" gaps for the first 2 rows I had to line those up with the same on one of the outer panels. I also did it so the raised vertical wires faced each other... Not sure how to explain that but when I started and laid out the center panel I had it so the vertical wires (50" lengths) were facing up. I then turned the outer panels so the vertical wires were facing down. That way the outer panels lined up perfectly and laid right over the top with the vertical wires right next to each other. Made it a breeze to use large zip ties to lock them together. When I was done, a 16' x 12' tarp fit perfectly over it and the grometted ends had room to fold inside at each end and get zip tied inside to the CPs. The grommets on the 16' ends got screws through them into the 2 x 6 PT bottom board. I didn't put the screws all the way in... left about 1-2" out so the grommets wouldn't get loose and slide off them. 

Still undecided if I should have put a wire backing on covered by more tarp. Had I done so, I would have attached the back side tarp first since it would have been a really odd shape, then just cut small holes for the zip ties to go through to attach the top tarp. They seem to like it the way it is and go in and out both ends. and it gives plenty of protection against rain. Don't know how it will turn out when we have one of those big Texas blows though... might wish I'd chained it to the ground or something. It's pretty heavy but I can lift one end and drag it and that tarp will give a huge amount of lift.

@goatgurl  and her sister @jackiesme  are awesome folks! Just down to earth good people... So glad I met them and was able to get some animals from her.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh, and just as an aside, When I picked them up, April was the wild and wary one and boy did she struggle trying to get her loaded into the truck. She danged near tried to strangle herself. I think she's starting to like me better than her pen mates... When I go out she comes sauntering up like she knows I have treats or something   I think being the lowest in the order and getting pushed around she's starting to like the attention. Bang seems to always be on the defensive in protection of her kids. While she does come up for treats, she does keep her distance and remains ready for flight. Dot is the friendliest of the bunch though and is always the first to come to me when I'm out there. The kids don't want anything to do with me. Once I have them in my paws though, they settle right down and relax. Just a matter of slow and easy to capture them 

I was amazed a while ago when I went out I saw a tick right under little guys eye, fully bloated. I didn't see that tick yesterday even though I held him and burned him... That tick attached and filled up quick! I ripped it out and threw it into the water trough. It sunk to the bottom. OK, so far this goat ownership thing is pretty decent... Hope I didn't just jinx myself


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## CntryBoy777

Now, I'll warn ya....they can and will Grow on ya!!....


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## goatgurl

well youall, what do you think, I work, slave, feed, spoil and take the best care of LS's pig that I can and he throws her out of the truck on the way home.  I just don't understand...  or the other scenario is that being the good little razorback hog she is she would have thrown herself out into the wild instead of having to spend the rest of her days as a texican.   I couldn't believe it when he called and told me she had bailed out when she hit Oklahoma.   I am locking the goats and sheep up in the pen for the next couple of days and leave my front gate open just in case she finds her way home.  as the crow flys she is only 2 or 3 miles from my house.  not that i'm counting on it but stranger things have happened.  if she does make it home i'm not gonna tell LS i'm just gonna hide her and protect her from him,   my guess is that she has already has found friends and we will have more little spotted feral pigs around here.  just what we need, more wild hogs  and I will be keeping an eye out for flocks of buzzards too just in case they find her instead.
am so glad the girls are settling in well.  it is very quiet in my barnyard now.  makes me sad.  going to be an adjustment for sure.  at least I know they have gone to people that will love and care for them.  that is important to me.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> He hasn't seemed to display a huge amount of interest in them yet aside from them being a novelty.


Merlin was like that after the first few days other than the one time he tried to entice the boys to play. There were times they were in the barn and he was outside, other times it was the reverse. When they were all out sometimes he would lie nearby and follow if they moved, other times nowhere near them. 

No idea what it would be like now that the weather is more pleasant. I doubt any of the three would be inside much. The boys haven't touched hay the past few days since the grasses are starting to grow and they are outside most of the time.


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## AClark

If you are going to need hay over the winter, it's better to buy now and store it, because that price is going to go way up once winter hits. Alfalfa doesn't do so great out in the weather like bermuda will either so it at least needs to be covered. It tends to get black and slimy if it gets wet, and then it's not good for much except cattle. Our alfalfa here comes from my hometown (which is tiny!) in Arizona. I buy alfalfa cubes because it's cheaper and they don't blow away in the wind like hay does, and I do the round bales of bermuda. 

I'll add more to this later, gotta get kids off to school.


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## greybeard

Check in to the Tx regs concerning tags/registration on farm trailers and trucks LS.
(assuming you have farm tags on your pickup truck)
Probably 1/2 the bumper pull and gooseneck stock trailers I see at the sale barn have no lic plates on them.


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## greybeard

AClark said:


> If you are going to need hay over the winter, it's better to buy now and store it, because that price is going to go way up once winter hits. Alfalfa doesn't do so great out in the weather like bermuda will either so it at least needs to be covered. It tends to get black and slimy if it gets wet, and then it's not good for much except cattle. Our alfalfa here comes from my hometown (which is tiny!) in Arizona. I buy alfalfa cubes because it's cheaper and they don't blow away in the wind like hay does, and I do the round bales of bermuda.
> 
> I'll add more to this later, gotta get kids off to school.


Not a lot of alfalfa available in East Texas,and down here, it is very expensive.
Yes, buy 2nd cutting hay in the late spring early summer--all your expected winter needs +10%. 1st cutting tends to be weedy and probably wasn't fertilized. 2nd cutting more weed free, is probably fertilized high protein with good fat content. Last cutting, (3rd) is a crap shoot. Likely to be past boot stage and not fertilized and grown under poor weather conditions of mid to late summer heat in Texas. 
Ask to have the hay analyzed for protein and moisture content.

Square or round, store it inside or tarp it. I paid the stupid tax on the following already, got the shirt, wasted lots of $$ and saw & smelled the mold. Do not cover it *completely* in East Texas with tarps--it will mold just from the humidity. It needs 'an umbrella 'and air circulation, not a sauna.
Proper way to tarp round bale hay in high humidity regions:


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## AClark

First cutting is supposedly too rich for cattle and can bloat them as well - I'd imagine the same for goats. First cutting is good for horses though since they are not ruminants and feed is processed in the hind gut.
Alfalfa isn't cheap in Oklahoma either, they ship it in. I feed the cubes at $8 a 50# bag (if you throw water on the cubes they expand to being more than a bale by far) If it's coming from NM/AZ you get more cuttings, 4 or 5 since the growing season is really long, but the last cuttings are usually "feedlot crap" quality.

ETA: $6 a bale isn't bad at all, I've seen it up to $17/bale at the feedstore for the 3 strand bales in the winter - much better and cheaper to store it up during cutting season than to find out you're screwed come winter and paying that!

Late, if I see your piggy here in OK, I'll ship her home in a cooler  You need something like this: https://lawton.craigslist.org/grd/6044885002.html
Though I think their price is a bit high for it.
Or this one (Dallas shows up on my local CL) https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/grd/6056534877.html

We aren't required to put plates on trailers unless they are for commercial use here in OK. I have to because I don't have OK plates on my truck, but if I did, I wouldn't need a plate for the trailer. If I remember right, farm trailers didn't require a plate in TX, mine didn't qualify so I paid quite a bit to tag it, but I don't remember my friends horse trailer even having a plate on it.


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## greybeard

AClark said:


> First cutting is supposedly too rich for cattle and can bloat them as well - I'd imagine the same for goats. First cutting is good for horses though since they are not ruminants and feed is processed in the hind gut.


True for first cut alfalfa and legume hay, but very little of that baled in East Texas.
Here, the 1st cut health risk is not bloat potential.. it's high nitrates, which causes grass tetany/grass staggers etc. It can happen with just about any grass hay under a number of different conditions, but usually in the spring growth or after first frost of the fall/early winter.  Bloat and GT are 2 different things, with grass tetany being caused by high nitrates and low magnesium in the soil and forage and thus in the animal's blood stream. The animal will access all the magnesium available in her system to counteract the high nitrates and a low Mg condition will occur--first sign is too often a dead cow.  It's another reason for testing. Tetany is always a risk with lush spring forage, and can be present in hay from that forage as well, if not cut at the right stage and tedded correctly.  I always start feeding hi-mag mineral a few weeks before the spring grass is ready for grazing. Never lost one to GT but I'm always worried about it. I've never had a cow get bloated on hay no matter when it was cut. On grain, yes--once, but not hay.

1st cut bahia, Tifton, and coastal is not usually fertilized--fertilize just encourages weed growth and increased lushness. A couple weeks after first cutting, any weed growth is taken care of by spraying, followed by fertilize.


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## AClark

Thanks Grey, I've never heard of it, probably because feeding grass hays is pretty new to me. We've always fed alfalfa because that's what is cheap in the area, and grass hay is at a premium - total opposite here. I keep a salt/mineral lick out for the critters though, and their pasture is pretty chewed down since it's not huge and has a pretty good livestock load on it.
I have an abundance of broadleaf plantain weeds though - and nothing likes to eat those!


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## Baymule

AClark said:


> I have an abundance of broadleaf plantain weeds though - and nothing likes to eat those!


Send me some! Supposedly sheep LOVE them!  My sheep eat lots of weeds, browse, practically anything. I see plantain growing in the roadside ditches, think I'll cut some and see if indeed, sheep really do like them. I'll plant them their very own plantain patch. LOL


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## AClark

Be careful what you wish for, I can't manage to kill it and it chokes out grass. Goats are too uppity to eat it, lol.


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## Bruce

Since we are on hay, I have a question. 

I bought 38 small bales, second cut last fall for the 2 alpacas, I think it is generic "orchard grass". The people who gave the boys to me originally had 7 alpacas and 3 goats, she knows how much she used the prior year for ALL of the animals. The lady across the road has 2 alpacas and 3 horses, she knows how much she needs for ALL her animals. No one knew how much just 2 alpacas would eat, it was a BIG guess on everyone's part. 

I still have 20 bales left on pallets in the barn with a non waterproof covering laying on top to keep bird poop off them (and yes Al said to NOT cover them directly with a tarp or they will rot). Will there be any food value in them for NEXT winter? Or should I use them for hay bale gardening, backstops for shooting (DD1 want's a bow), spreading over newly seeded areas, mulch for the garden and order less this fall?


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## Latestarter

Well, went out and fed the goats this am at 8:30. They were pretty happy to see me. After that I came inside for a couple hours to let the pasture dry out a bit. About noon I headed out to round up all the fence posts that drifted off in the last storm. There's one that's just past the knocked down barbed wire fence and standing on end in the gulch. That one will be a challenge to get to but I believe I found all the others. I then started with the lawn tractor to start mowing the fence lines so I can continue working to get the pasture enclosed. I want the girls to be able to get out of the pen and wander around safely. Will be nice to give Mel a bit more running room as well. Since I've altered the fence lines I'm starting with, I need to go buy a couple more gates. I've also decided since some of the fences are going to have to deal with flood debris, I'm going to do "H" posts vice the floating brace anywhere that will anchor a fence that might see debris.

The coyotes started wailing a couple of properties over last night at sundown so I went out and fired off a few 22 LR rounds in their general direction to push them away. I seems to have worked.



AClark said:


> Late, if I see your piggy here in OK, I'll ship her home in a cooler  You need something like this:
> https://lawton.craigslist.org/grd/6044885002.html   Though I think their price is a bit high for it.


  I think that acrobatic piggy is done gone. That trailer is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. It needs to be big enough to handle a couple of adult steers. The price for something like that new at Big Tex is right around $5K.



Bruce said:


> Will there be any food value in them for NEXT winter? Or should I use them for hay bale gardening, backstops for shooting (DD1 want's a bow), spreading over newly seeded areas, mulch for the garden and order less this fall?


  I doubt there will be much food value left after sitting till year 2. I suggest using them for all of the other things you listed.


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## Mike CHS

I wish I knew the answer for that one since we have a similar situation.  We had a few bales of two year old hay that was kept dry and our flock ate it as well as anything else.  When I started feeding fresh cut grass all bets were off and they refused anything else.


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## frustratedearthmother

I browsed a few websites...  Most of them say that if the hay was put up at the right moisture content, was stored under cover and is not moldy that it should be ok.  They also say that most of the nutrient loss occurs in the first couple months...

http://www.equinews.com/article/feeding-old-hay-horses

Just putting it out there.  I have a round bale that hasn't been fed yet - and the goats are jumping the fence to get to it.  I need to get it moved.

I"m no expert and I usually don't have a lot of "left-over" hay...


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## greybeard

My cows would rather eat 1-2 yr old hay than any other and I've heard lots of others say the same thing but unless you knew the nutritional value of the fresh baled hay , it would be difficult to ascertain how much value it has lost in the time it has been stored. 
The only hay I've ever had to junk was the bales I tarped all the way to the ground that one year.  Had a bad yeasty smell to it and had turned white with yeast mold. I just didn't want to chance it. Amazing, once ya light a match to it, just  how long a pile of round bales will burn and smolder tho...


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## babsbag

When it comes to hay I may pay $$$ but I can buy it any day of the week all year round. All the alfalfa or grass hay I need but I only buy alfalfa. I feed first cutting when it is in season, and then 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4th. It just depends on what is in the barn when I buy it. Sometimes I get 1st cutting in the winter as it is in the back of the barn. The goats prefer 3rd cutting, 1st can be a little stemmy but none of it seems to bother them.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> When I started feeding fresh cut grass all bets were off and they refused anything else.


Now that the grass in the pasture is slowly getting started, they haven't touched the hay. I don't find that surprising, I would rather eat something fresh and moist than old and drier as well. Maybe the extension service (or someone else?) could do an analysis??


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## AClark

Bruce, your county extension can certainly do an analysis. I'd call and ask them how it works. The round bales I'm feeding are from at least last year, if not older, stored outside with the mesh covering. The top layer is crap, but that's only the first roll off of it, and underneath it's still in good shape. I use the top layer for bedding, and nobody eats it.

Late, for steers, I'd think you'd need something taller, that trailer is pretty short height wise. From the picture of the lady standing in it, it's probably 5 1/2 feet tall. Reasonably priced stock trailers are fairly common on the Dallas CL, I see them a lot because Dallas is about 3 hours from me so it comes up on my local all the time.


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## farmerjan

If the square bales were stored inside, and didn't get wet, there is little more loss of nutrients in the second year.  Being covered to keep the bird poop off would actually protect from any loss of color/nutrients also.  We have had square bales in the barn for several years if  we don't get enough sold to get to the back and about every 3rd or 4th year will completely empty out that area to the floor and bare wall to start stacking over again. It will get a bit drier but that's about it.  About the biggest problem we have is mice chew through the baling strings and you go to grab the two strings and one comes off and the bale falls apart.
We try to have at least an extra 100-200 square bales left in the spring for a "cushion"  in case of bad weather and not getting hay made "right".  We also try to carry at least 100 big round bales over.... the possibility of a bad hay season or a drought and having to scrounge to find hay to feed in july or aug is scary.  I realize that you all do things on a much smaller scale, but I personally would get my anticipated needed hay in  as soon as it is available.  And yes at least 10% more so that you are not paying 3 x as much if you run out and there is none available.

Since I am not familiar with Tx  hay making I don't know the best to get.  Here  we mostly round bale and feed our cattle with first cutting due to trying to get it made as soon as possible and the weather patterns to get it down and dry and made.  We do some first cut square baling of the two orchard grass fields because we have 2 people who want first cutting.  They want a little more coarse hay.  The second and third cuttings are usually much "finer" hay.
Around here I have never heard of first cutting being too rich for cattle, and causing any kind of bloat.  @greybeard  is right about the grass tetany.  We start feeding hi-mag mineral in early spring and feed through all of pasture season.  Cheap insurance against losing any animals.  We are in a selenium deficient area so also feed a mineral that is higher in selenium and it has prevented any kind of problems in the calves born also.  We don't have a problem with bloat either.  The nutrient content of our 2nd and 3rd cutting hay is higher than the  first cutting.  We do get some weeds in first cutting which is why most farmers will feed it to cattle so they can pick around the weeds if they want.  First cutting alfalfa is too stemmy for my preferences, but then in this area it is not irrigated, so the growth is not controlled as much.  Too much leaf loss also.  I buy about 150-250 square bales of alfalfa usually 3rd cutting, for the sheep and the milk cows I have that are used as nurse cows and milk for the house.  Alfalfa is a demanding crop and we just do not have the flexibility with our full time jobs to get it made at the right times, so it is better to buy it.  We have a big enough demand for our orchard grass that we can sell it for nearly what the alfalfa costs and it is more forgiving on timing to make it.


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## greybeard

AClark said:


> I don't know what goats or sheep do but cattle will just peel the outside layer off themselves.
> 
> Late, for steers, I'd think you'd need something taller, that trailer is pretty short height wise. From the picture of the lady standing in it, it's probably 5 1/2 feet tall. Reasonably priced stock trailers are fairly common on the Dallas CL, I see them a lot because Dallas is about 3 hours from me so it comes up on my local all the time.


I've seen those same little squatty stock trailers from the Lawton CL ad  at the CL dealer in Livingston..that's an almost new price, and you can buy a new full sized 14' stock trailer just about anywhere for less than what he's asking for that mini-trailer.
https://easttexas.craigslist.org/fod/6081681678.html

Here's a 2010 16' full sized used stock trailer right out side of Sulphur Springs. $2995 asking price.
https://easttexas.craigslist.org/trb/6093675782.html

I know it's cheaper to just rent one, but I've needed one too many times in a hurry and didn't want to miss a sale or have a dead cow because I had to spend an hour+ driving 20 miles each way and 30 minutes doing the rental agreement before I could even start for the vet or sale barn. Then gotta waste more time the next day cleaning and returning the thing.


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## Latestarter

Might have to give them a call over there in Sulpher Springs. For a 2010, that trailer looks virtually unused. That's a heckuva deal... The opening at the top at the back doesn't look big enough for a pig to escape through (the opening at the top of the back of my trailer didn't look big enough either )... Of course I could block the pig up front too. 

So I believe I can comfortably fit two adult steers in that trailer and be safe towing it. Depending on breed, maybe 3 steers? What do you say @greybeard ?


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## babsbag

Why would you need to haul steers?  You can put permanent stock panel over the opening.


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## Latestarter

Well, when I buy them I need to transport them here, and when I sell/market them, I'll need to haul them to the sale barn or the slaughter house. I hope to buy a couple in the 500-600 pound range and a couple more that are basically just weaned. That way I should end up with a couple ready for sale/slaughter each year and I will just replace those that go with new ones.  I was kinda joking about the opening...


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> So I believe I can comfortably fit two adult steers in that trailer and be safe towing it. Depending on breed, maybe 3 steers? What do you say @greybeard ?



You shouldn't have any problem with 3 steers. That's a Parker Co-Hann trailer and tho that ad doesn't give all the specs, I'm pretty sure these are the specs on it when new:

_Parker Performance 6'x16'x6'6" Co-Hann Bumper Pull w/2-3500# EZ Lube Torsion Drop Axles, 1 Brake/1 Idler, 2" RAM Coupler, 7k Drop Leg Jack, Treated Lumber Floor, Teardrop Fenders, Regular Slat Sides, 16" Front Gravel Guard, Rear 1/2 Slide/Full Swing Gate, 1 Center Gate, 24" Side Escape Door,  Spare Bracket w/Spare, Front Window w/2 Circle Vents, Regular Lights, ST225/75D15 8 Ply Tires on 6-Lug Silver Mod Wheels_


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## AClark

greybeard said:


> I know it's cheaper to just rent one, but I've needed one too many times in a hurry and didn't want to miss a sale or have a dead cow because I had to spend an hour+ driving 20 miles each way and 30 minutes doing the rental agreement before I could even start for the vet or sale barn. Then gotta waste more time the next day cleaning and returning the thing.



That's if you can find somewhere that will rent one! I had a really bad time trying to find one to rent awhile back, I actually never did, I had to pay someone to haul for me. Trust me, that isn't cheap at all, they charge by the loaded mile. Not to mention having your own means not having to wash it, just pull the mats out and let it dry - a little dry poop doesn't hurt anything, it's that letting it sit with the mats in all wet that rots them. Another thought about having your own is you aren't spreading disease, what if the one you rented had a horse with strangles (horse distemper) in it, and now your buddies have that nasty crap because it wasn't disinfected? Just hosing it out isn't good enough to get rid of strangles. I don't know if cattle have a similar disease but I imagine they do.

A trailer is definitely a wise investment if you have any kind of livestock, you never know when you're going to have to haul them to the vet or God forbid, have a natural disaster and need to move the critters ASAP. Fires and flooding come to mind.
As it is for me, I can stuff everybody in my trailer if need be. We already figured that if push came to shove, the goats will fit in the saddle compartment just fine, it's big, and we don't want the horses to step on them while being hauled. It never hurts to have a "what if" plan if things don't go right. That could just be me, because I tend to have "adventures" every time I do things, lol.

I think the opening will be less of an issue with a slick wall, versus a wire wall critters can get a foot hold in. A 16 ft trailer is big enough to haul 4 horses, so 3 steers should fit well. That's why I ended up with my new one, the guy I bought it from has Longhorns and they wouldn't fit due to the horns.


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## babsbag

I guess that makes sense. I was just thinking that you were raising them for your freezer and my butcher comes to my house...very convenient. So once I get a cow/steer here it won't leave unless there is an emergency and I can get one in my horse trailer. If a fire comes through here we shelter in place; the goats have done a great job making sure there isn't much ground fuel and I would need a BIG trailer to haul 40+ goats.


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## farmerjan

In the beginning, renting would be a more economical move.  Take some time to look around and something will usually come up when you least expect it.  You are only talking a possible few moves a year at most.  The goat carrier you built for the back of the truck will be all that you will need 90% of the time.  Then you can find a deal like then one greybeard is talking about.
We have 2 gooseneck cattle trailers, one is 20 ft  and the other is 24 ft long.  We can COMFORTABLY haul 7-8 mature adult cows in the 20 ft one to move them to pasture.  We can haul 15-18 4-500 lb feeder steers in it to take to town to the stockyards.  They do not need nor should really have alot of room to move around when they are being hauled.  Too much shifting of weight, and they actually will have more trouble keeping their footing. We always use the cut gate and lock a small number of animals in the front when hauling so they don't get the weight on the back and cause it to sway.
  Unless you have longhorns with 6 ft spread horns, an average 1000 lb steer will comfortably fit in the same space a single horse will.  I hauled many head of cattle in my 2 horse trailer, then my 4 horse trailer, then we went to a gooseneck.  We don't have to register or put plates on our trailers here if they are used for "Farm Use" and used within a 30 mile radius...but that is pretty lenient if you have a trailer with cattle in it they seldom ever bother you.  We do make sure the lights and brakes work but that is for safety reasons.
For future travels, use a rigid gate overtop of the trailer you have, instead of the cattle panels that have some give to them.


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## babsbag

farmerjan said:


> For future travels, use a rigid gate overtop of the trailer you have, instead of the cattle panels that have some give to them.



Smart...a voice of experience???


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## CntryBoy777

Looks like ya are fixing to get Wet over that way, we are getting started on the 3-4.5" predicted for us here.


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## farmerjan

babsbag said:


> Smart...a voice of experience???


Yeah, I guess you could say the voice of experience.... only we hadn't gone very far (about 20 ft) when we had a pig try to go over a small trailer with a stock panel that was tied down over the top of the sides.  Somewhat similiar to LS trailer...but smaller.  The thing is, make the top rigid, AND do not give them moving around room so they can't get a "start" to get out or go over or anything.  They don't need exercise room when you are moving an animal.  No don't cramp them so that they are like a trussed up turkey ready for the oven, but other than room to stand up or lay down, they don't need room to even turn around. Seriously, it is not cruel, it is for safety reasons....and like LS found out the hard way, to prevent them from "trying" their confined space.  Why do you think that horse trailers are built the way they are?  It allows the horse to move it's legs, shift it's weight and yet keeps it from having too much room to get turning around or hurt. Even the fancy horse vans, the horses are confined to a fairly tight stall.  People do transport them in stock trailers, but they still tie them and usually are cross loaded so that they can "get their sea legs under them" and can adjust to the movement. 
If they can't get any space to "launch" themselves, they can't get out.  Most animals cannot go from a stand still to jumping 4-5-6 ft straight up over a trailer side with no room to "get a start".  Yes  there are some that can....but most cannot.  Why give them a "running start"????  And a rigid top doesn't allow them any push room either.


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## Latestarter

When I saw miss piggy's snout and ears pop up above the trailer top, I thought about slamming the breaks to knock her down and fwd, but with a pregnant near term doe in the bed along with the two kids, It just didn't seem like a real bright idea. I didn't want to take any chances of injuring the goats. The trailer is 6' wide x 12' long, so I don't know if they make 6' high gates... No problem in any case. That will never happen to me again. Hate that I lost the pig... Hate as much that I pulled the trailer there and back for nothing. Killed my gas mileage as well.

I cut some lower limbs off a bradford pear tree today to make visibility of the goats easier from inside the house. I threw the branches over into the dry lot for them and they had a field day. They get goat chow in the morning and a combo of grain and goat chow in the afternoon. Hay available all the time. Still lots of green inside the pen. The occasional animal cracker cookie. Both Dot and April will come right to me, it's Bang that's become the stand off girl. Might be because of her kids. CB (Creme Brulee) has gotten much braver and comes to me so I can pick her up. She has the prettiest light blue eyes. CM (Chocolate Mousse) doesn't seem to have a care in the world, but won't let me get near him. I have to really be sneaky to get my hands on him. They both spend most of the day chasing each other all over the pen and in and out of the shelter.

I bought the adults new collars, but haven't tried to put them on yet. I want them more or less completely comfortable with me so they don't think I'm trying to kill them. I also bought 3 yard stakes with 25' leads so I can anchor them out with some fresh greens but again, I want to make sure they're comfy with me first, and that they'll come to me for sure if I need them to. I also don't want to give the kids their freedom yet as I can no longer catch them if they don't want to be caught. They're too small for collars and leads. I could leave them inside the pen while the adults are outside I guess, but I don't want them trying to get through the cattle panel, which they might still be able to do if they get it in their heads to try.

Looks like some T-storms headed this way. May be here in an hour or two. No idea how long they'll last. I want some jacuzzi time so I guess I better head that way. I don't like being in a hot tub during an electrical storm... Just me.

ETA:   ".NOW...   ...TORNADO WATCH IN EFFECT UNTIL 1 AM CDT...
Scattered strong to severe thunderstorms, have begun to move eastward into the area. Some of these storms may have the potential to produce strong to damaging wind gusts, large hail, deadly lightning, heavy rain, and possible tornadoes."  Looks like multiple strong T-storm warnings west of me right now also. They should roll east along with the storms.

Earlier today I got the cage lifted out of the bed of the truck, then washed it out as best I could with the hose. Then I went to one of those pressure wash places and pressure washed out the bed. Man did it stink! It was amazing how much poop 3 goats made in a short 3 hour drive.

Which reminds me... @goatgurl  Bang is still leaking some blood. I see it smeared on the underside of her tail and crusted in her tail hair on the sides. Maybe just a little staining on her vulva at the very bottom. It's been almost 3 weeks.. Is this normal/OK? That girl will NOT let me even close so it's impossible to get a picture... I guess I'll give it another week or so and if still leaking then I'll start to worry.


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## OneFineAcre

Goat Chow is grain
When you give goat chow and grain you are giving grain and more grain


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## Goat Whisperer

x2

Most "goat chow" feeds are a sweet feed. 
So feed and more feed. 

Normal for them to have discharge. 

Are they PB lamanchas or minis? Lamanchas don't have blue eyes.


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## Latestarter

The 2 mommas are PB lamanchas (supposed to be, sisters), Bang and Dot. I understand it's grain and grain... one (what I call goat chow) is processed/pellets, I don't think it's a sweet feed, doesn't say it is, and the grain mix is whole grains. Not sure if that's a sweet feed or not... It's what I got from GG when I got the goats from her. It's what she gave them and recommended.

This is the grain... it says it has molasses cane (sugar cane?) but doesn't say it has molasses or that it's a sweet feed... It doesn't smell like molasses when I dish it out.
http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=161


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## Latestarter

I have some pretty unhappy goat girls this am. Had some pretty heavy spells of rain early this morning and though the shelter keeps the direct rain off them it didn't really protect them from wind blown spray and it's pretty damp ground inside. So they got breakfast in bed so to speak as I brought their pellets inside the shelter for them this morning. I got about an inch and a quarter total so far and I think most of that came in two really heavy downpours.

I've seen Dot doing some stretching and the like so maybe she's re-positioning the kids and getting ready. Hope she waits till a dry day to deliver. I don't like standing out in the rain any more than they do  Guess a real barn structure has to move up the priorities list. At least I only have Dot left to deliver. So that gives me a few months to work on it.


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## Hens and Roos

Good luck with your up coming kidding!  We used the information from @Southern by choice and provided a step/concrete block for our girls to stand on.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> This is the grain... it says it has molasses cane (sugar cane?) but doesn't say it has molasses or that it's a sweet feed


Because of the way it's worded (molasses cane instead of cane molasses) it probably has ground up sugar cane stalks added either as a filler or for fiber/roughage content, tho it can also be a good source of protein. Sometimes just the  pulp of the stalk and any  leaves are used, and not the tough outer skin that is all but in-digestible--sometimes the outer skin is processed to 'tenderize' it and it is used too.  If it's locally available, feed mills will use the cane stalk pulp because it is generally very low cost or even free once the cane mills have pressed the juice from the stalk. Similar in use to distillers grain, which is a byproduct of corn from ethanol plants.  It won't smell like molasses because the molasses smell comes from the cooked juice of a second cooking of the cane juice, which is why molasses is much darker than the only-once-boiled cane syrup. Another name for it is bagasse if it's been fermented.
I've seen it pelletized in little pellets, made into larger cubes that look like range cubes, or fed as just a grind in a grain ration.
When I lived in S. Louisiana, I saw mountains of that pulp piled up outside the cane mills around New Iberia, Lafayette and Morgan City.

(There's of course, no such thing as a plant called molasses--molasses comes from the juice of any member of the sorghum family)


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## goatgurl

mornin',   first off @Latestarter the discharge from bang is normal.  she kidded 19 days ago so you can expect the discharge for another week or two.  as your doeling gets older her 'blue eyes' will turn a golden amber.  @Goat Whisperer is right, purebred lamanchas don't have blue eyes but a lot of my goats have light brown to amber eyes that appear blue when they are babies.
  I was wondering myself why you were feeding both feeds.  I feed the grain simply because that is what I prefer.  kind of like instant potatoes verses peel, cook and mash your own.  they are both potatoes one is just more processed than the other.  lots and lots of people feed pelleted food and they do great on them.  just a preference for me.
  now you know I want you to send me pics of dots udder when she is ready to kid.  both front and back because I really think it is gonna be nice.   
  I smiled when I saw that bang didn't give you any milk.  I think she is holding out on you.  they can and will 'hold' their milk from you.  go over to @Devonviolet's house and let her give you a lesson on how to get a doe to let her milk down.  she had the same problem with falina but has it down pat now.
  still no word from folks in the area where spot made her dash for freedom.  closing the gates to the land today and letting the girls back out.  lesson learned.  we haul all of the animals we transport in a regular stock trailer.  no escapes so far.  since you have access to a rental that would be a good way to go until you decide what you really need.


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## Southern by choice

@goatgurl  Sometimes our Kiko kids look like they have bluish colored eyes too but they turn more green/ yellow over time but I have always thought it to be kinda interesting. 
Gosh, you are so right- these daggone dam raisers can sure hold that milk AND fight ya! Every year we say we will pull Millie's kid/s because she is so terrible about it but then she kids and we don't. 
Truth is we figure she is so dang cantankerous that she would probably be worse if we took her kids  Tis ok... Millie is a keeper even though she is horrid on the stand... and no ... year after year she is the same. She ain't gettin any better. 

@Latestarter  we do always put stumps, cinders, or step stool- something in with the expectants because it aids in helping to position. Our girls really use them - they climb , get down, stretch, wiggle, climb and repeat.


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> The 2 mommas are PB lamanchas (supposed to be, sisters), Bang and Dot. I understand it's grain and grain... one (what I call goat chow) is processed/pellets, I don't think it's a sweet feed, doesn't say it is, and the grain mix is whole grains. Not sure if that's a sweet feed or not... It's what I got from GG when I got the goats from her. It's what she gave them and recommended.
> 
> This is the grain... it says it has molasses cane (sugar cane?) but doesn't say it has molasses or that it's a sweet feed... It doesn't smell like molasses when I dish it out.
> http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=161


We are feeding the same Big V Dairy Goat Ration, that @goatgurl recommended.  I have to call ahead to the one feed store, in Sulphur Springs, that carries Big V Feeds.  Even if I specify "Dairy Goat Ration" I still get there, sometimes, and all they have is the regular goat pellets.  This last time, I spoke with the owner, and I think he finally gets it.  He promised that if I call ahead, he will order the right feed.

Anyway, if we feed the recommended approximately 3 pounds a day [+ or -] (a little more than 2-1/2 cups morning & evening), we noticed their poop pellets turn to a soft, solid mass.  But, that doesn't seem to be enough for them.  They are still hungry.  So, we cut back on the feed (about 2 cups twice daily) and now add a handful of chaffe hay, about 1/2 cup alfalfa pellets and 1/4 cup granular Kelp.

After they eat, we load up the hay tub, with Coastal Hay, and they are happy to stand around crunching on hay.  They each eat quite a bit of the hay.  In addition to that, after I milk them, we have a patch of taller grass/weeds, that we don't cut, and I let them browse on that for 5-10 minutes before I take them back to their kids.


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## Goat Whisperer

Devonviolet said:


> Anyway, if we feed the recommended approximately 3 pounds a day [+ or -] (a little more than 2-1/2 cups morning & evening), we noticed their poop pellets turn to a soft, solid mass. But, that doesn't seem to be enough for them. They are still hungry. So, we cut back on the feed (about 2 cups twice daily) and now add a handful of chaffe hay, about 1/2 cup alfalfa pellets and 1/4 cup granular Kelp.


Are you weighing the feed?
That doesn't sound like 3lbs of feed (6-5 cups IOW)
Its normal to have clumpy poo when increasing feed. It takes a little bit for their system to catch up.


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## Devonviolet

Wow! Did we mess up!  Thanks for catching that @Goat Whisperer!  We took our kitchen scale out at evening feeding, and after weighing what we were giving them, we realized we were way off!  Our girls are going to be getting a lot more from now on!

So, should I increase gradually, so they don't end up with the runs?


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## OneFineAcre

Devonviolet said:


> Wow! Did we mess up!  Thanks for catching that @Goat Whisperer!  We took our kitchen scale out at evening feeding, and after weighing what we were giving them, we realized we were way off!  Our girls are going to be getting a lot more from now on!
> 
> So, should I increase gradually, so they don't end up with the runs?


Yes


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## Goat Whisperer

Yes. It's always best to do gradual changes. 
Clumpy poo or "dog logs" are okay and normal, you just don't want them to scour. 

Adding probiotics to the feed can help.


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## Latestarter

I kinda feel bad for April... she has a hard time getting to the feed. Both Dot and Bang will head butt her away from the buckets. Yup, even though there are multiple buckets, the two bigger does will move back and forth between them and try to push April away. I have to kinda stand guard to make sure April gets her fair share. I took the left over end piece of cattle panel from what I cut down to (ineffectively) cover the trailer, and made a hay rack on the fence for them today. They like that a lot better than me putting the hay in a pile on the ground. I had to move it (hay rack) up from where I first put it as they were walking under it to scratch their backs on it  

I took them out some cookies and raisins earlier today and got the two older girls collars changed and was able to catch April and cut the twine off her neck so she now has a nice collar as well.  When I get done here I'll bring Dot down a cinder block to stretch on. Her udder is getting a little bigger but not full blown yet. I've seen her doing some stretches, but she doesn't look like she's ready quite yet. I tried to keep a cookie out of Dot's reach because it was meant for April and she stood up on her hind legs trying to get it  I know you told me the date and it's near the end of the month, but I can't remember the exact date and I'm not really worried about it. I figure when she's ready, she'll go.

I was trying to mow the field and got a flat tire on the front   Guess that happens when you're mowing down thorn vines and running over sticks and thorns and everything else. So tomorrow I have to try and find somewhere that repairs those tires or get it replaced. Gonna need to pull the blades and get them sharpened as well. The tractor is leaving "streaks" of uncut stuff. I know I've nicked the blades. I need to get this place mowed before the next big storm system moves in on Wednesday... 4-6" more rain and it will be a legit pasture and I won't be able to even get the lawn tractor through it. Can't believe how fast it's growing. Just wish it was more grass than weeds.


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## CntryBoy777

It sounds like your experiencing the same thing I do here...that ya was witness to...in feeding with the Boys and Star. I had a flat on my rider and plugged it with the same thing I use on car tires, it has held up ever since. Those limbs and bush hawging ya are doing is the cause for the uneven cut along with the terrain. It used to bother me, but not so much anymore. It doesn't take much growth for it to even out and goats prefer to eat between 3-6" in grass or weed height. That's why I don't cut the whole field at one time, but leave enough for them to eat while the cut has time to grow back. The goats won't mind the weeds and some pigs really won't either. Busting up the mowing will also help out your back and hands, not having to endure the bouncing and shaking for long periods of time. It took me a little over a year for my OCD to subside and accept uneven cut and leaving some uncut. I just think of it as doing the animals a Favor. Certainly hope the kidding goes smooth for ya and they settle down some as they adjust.


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## Southern by choice

Leah is our "lowest on the pecking order" doe. Even the yearlings growing up are over her... she will just always be  that way. Our friend has her full sister from another breeding- she is the same exact way. It is sad, but we have made arrangements especially when pregnant.
Leah gets the hallway overnight- keeps her safe from the others being jerky and she gets to eat. Since she has those big litters she needs that protection and food.
Whenever we have one that gets bullied from food we will take them and lock them up in the barn for 15 minutes and they can at least get their feed in peace.

Since you just have a temp shelter up now it will be just one of many things that you will tuck away for when you build. IMO one can never have too many stalls, gates, pens. LOL
This gives you time to work with the goats and see what will be best for you.


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## Latestarter

So here's some pics:

I had placed the cinder blocks with one on top of two... The kids jumping off knocked the top one off  Guess that's gonna be a routine "need to fix that"...



 
Here you can see I've put the block back up on top where I wanted it.



Here's a close up of Chocolate Mousse (Moose for short or CM) and Creme Broulee (Cream or CB for short)




Here's her eyes as close as I could get... they do seem to be changing from the blue they were to a light yellowish. sorry, they just don't stand still...



And here's the make shift hay rack.




Life is an adventure   Sure glad to continue the journey


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## frustratedearthmother

Cute, cute, cute!   Just a word of caution - I'd be careful of those points sticking up on the hay rack... Goats find so many inventive ways to hurt themselves...


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## Latestarter

Very good point FEM (no pun intended)... I'll have to figure something out there... Maybe I'll go use one of the other pieces and just have the points at the bottom to go through the fence. I'll have to cut it down some more...


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## Goat Whisperer

Ditto FEMS post.

That's an eye injury waiting to happen.
You could cut them down and turn it, than twist the end pieces around the fence (as long as any tips are on the other side of the fence).

I'd also get those bungee cords out ASAP.
I've seen others goats get the hook through the mouth, eye injuries, etc. They WILL over time try to play with it. Finding a goat with the "hook" through the mouth is NOT fun.

ETA... that cattle panel in the second pic should be moved or layed over. Goats love to go in between things and rub. That could crush or injure a kid. 

The girls look so happy! Very happy for you. Not trying to knit pic but over the years I've seen lots of accidents that could have been prevented had someone said something.


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## frustratedearthmother

I'm sure you'll get something figured out.  I just had visions of skewered goats go through my mind!  Yikes!


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## Bruce

Is Mel just basically ignoring the goats now?


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## Baymule

Your goats look happy and they are so cute! You can get a tractor tire and bury half of it , standing up, for your kids to play on it.


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## Mike CHS

Should you be concerned about those vertical legs being exposed like that.  It looks like the horizontals on the hay rack are cut off but I'm not sure your goats could possibly hurt themselves on those.


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## Latestarter

I keep meaning to get that spare CP out of there... They've knocked it over once already. I'll get the hay rack fixed tomorrow. I bent over the hooks on the bungees so they are touching back on themselves. I'll change that up when I change out the hay rack CP piece. Thanks Bay. that's actually a great idea. I don't want to build too much of a playground there for them as that's temporary and will be removed when the barn gets built... Like 5-10 years from now 

Yeah Bruce. Mell comes up to the fence when he first goes out and then the rest of the day he pretty much ignores them. He knows they're there, and he watches me and the goats any time I'm in there with them. And today he tried to sneak out the back gate behind me when I was on my way to go in with them. I expect probably some time this coming week I'll put his harness and leash on and bring him in their enclosure with me. They've only been here a week. That ought to be pretty interesting... Since it's just me, don't be expecting pics or video.

Yeah Mike, GW & Fem had already brought that to my attention. I'll get that fixed tomorrow.


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## Bruce

What "no pics or video"?? Can't Mel wear a head camera??? Dog's eye view of the proceedings could be very interesting.


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## Mike CHS

I'm smiling because I can relate to it does not matter how much you plan there is a whole new list just about every day.  

Those are some awesome looking goats by the way.


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## CntryBoy777

A quick fix on the hay feeder, would be to sandwich the ends with 1x4s, 1x6s, or 2x4s put a few decking screws in and ya are good to go. Your place there is really starting to "Blossom" and become the Farm ya been dreaming of for sooo long....
If ya still have some chunks of that tree left, ya could put a few in there for them to play on too....nice and cheap...they can play stump hopskotch.


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## Latestarter

Thanks Fred... I had thought I could take a piece of 2x4 and drill holes to slip over the "tines", but your idea is a heckuvalot easier and faster. Saves me from cutting down another section of CP too. Think I'll rip a 2x4 lengthwise then screw the pieces together over the tines, just like you stated.


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## goatgurl

i'll have to get a picture tomorrow of the thing i use for a hay feeder.  its the cage off a 240 gallon water tote.   keeps it off the ground and everybody out of it.  i have a big old tractor tire in the goat yard that is just laying flat and the babies love to play on it.  girls are looking good.  when you feed them give dot and bang theirs and hold a pan in your lap for april to eat out of.  makes her come to you for food and gives her the idea that you'll keep her safe from the bigger girls.  and since everyone else has pointed out the dangers of the points on the hay feeder i don't have to.  @jackiesme uses something similar but uses snaps to hold the bottom onto the standing panel and a short piece of chain with snaps to hold the top out and in place.  no sharp points and no hooks to snag an unsuspecting goat.


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## Latestarter

I know you've told me about the water tote cage and I saw it when I was there. I'm trying to be "frugal" at the moment as I've suffered a financial hemorrhage over the past few months... I really need to keep spending to an absolute minimum for a while if I can. I still have more animals to purchase as well as the ongoing & seems like never ending stuff.


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## goatgurl

the thing cost 10 bucks LS.  portable, easy to use and will last for ever and ever. whats not to love


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## Latestarter

Haven't even got a clue where to start looking for one down here... Any ideas/leads?


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Haven't even got a clue where to start looking for one down here... Any ideas/leads?


Yep. I have one here. Come get it, but I can tell you now, you will spend more on gas coming than what you can find them for lcally. You can find them just about anywhere, including the tote for less than $50.
What she's talking about is the metal frame around this white container--check around your craigslist area.
https://texarkana.craigslist.org/search/gra?query=tote







https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/grd/6066504765.html

If you are going to use the container for something, make sure you ask for one that previously had 'food grade' contents in it, not like I did at first and ended up with one that was used to transport automotive brake fluid....not that it mattered, since I used it to build a herbicide sprayer.

(Last time I hauled off a load of junk, there were several cages sitting there at the salvage yard. You might check with your local scrap dealer too.)


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## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> I know you've told me about the water tote cage and I saw it when I was there. I'm trying to be "frugal" at the moment as I've suffered a financial hemorrhage over the past few months... I really need to keep spending to an absolute minimum for a while if I can. I still have more animals to purchase as well as the ongoing & seems like never ending stuff.


 Welcome to farming!!


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## Mike CHS

I'm pretty sure I heard this on BYH but I have heard many times now that "If you want to make a small fortune farming, start off with a large one."  

I see those totes around here at several places.  One of the neighbors cut out a door and uses one as a hut for his two weed eater goats.


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## CntryBoy777

Our local CoOp sells some kind of liquid in them, either poison, liquid fertilizer, or something else. But, when they are finished with using it, ya could probably get it for nothing. Just have to check with the local farmers that plant crops.


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## Latestarter

Well, went to home depot and got a tire plugging kit and got the puncture hole in the front tractor tire all plugged. First time I've ever done it and learned an important lesson. There were two lengths of plugs and I used a short one the first time around. When it finally slid into the hole it went ALL the way in so of course snapped off inside when I pulled the tool back out. The 2nd attempt with a long plug worked as the tool bottomed out BEFORE the entire plug disappeared inside the tire. Makes me wonder why they even bother with the shorter plugs... Maybe so folks like me can do what I did  

Still have a little mowing in back to do to finish. Stopped and came on here when I needed to re-fuel and it was getting a little warm and I was getting a little hungry. Bought a small rubber bowl to put the goat minerals in and they now have those out free choice. They all had some when I put them out then snorted and went about their business. They've really settled in nicely and have become quite comfortable. I expect by next week I may be able to put them out on the anchors so they can veg/weed out... Also checked into CD&T toxin at TSC while there earlier. They have some so I'll pick that up next trip along with syringes and needles.


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## frustratedearthmother

What's ya'lls temp today?  Looks like we're going to make low 80's with fairly low humidity today.  It's so purty outside that I stayed home today!   (not jealous of you retired folks - nope - not at all... grumble)


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## Latestarter

Up here in Mt Pleasant I had to close the BR window early this Am... Temp was down in the high 40s. Today got to mid 70s and just about perfect. Back at 60 right now, windows back open. Sitting here next to 2 open windows wearing shorts, flip flops and a long sleeve flannel shirt   Supposed to be mid 80s tomorrow, then back to mid 70s and poss for severe T-storms (TORCON 3) and 90% chance of rain on Wed.  I really enjoy spring time temps in spring


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## Mike CHS

At least we are having some spring temps this year.  Last year it hit the 80's here early and stayed there.


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## greybeard

Today and yesterday are my last best chances to burn brush before the rains or dry grass season sets in.
The smell of burning oak  hangs heavy in the morning air..


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## Latestarter

So did anyone here know that when you are sitting on a riding mower for any length of time, your T-shirt will "ride up" your back thus allowing the belt line of your pants in the back to form a "scoop"? As a side note, were you aware that cedar and juniper type trees tend to release their needles when the branches are "brushed" against? Consequently, when you are trying to mow underbrush under cedar trees (or juniper as you wish) with low hanging branches, as you push those branches up and over you, they spew needles that very handily fall right into that pants scoop I mentioned... Did you know that a butt load (literally) of needles in your pants makes for a very uncomfortable ride?  Especially if you happen to go commando. 

I finally managed yesterday to finish the back pasture mowing and thus mowed a section I had never done before. It has a lot of trees and therefore is well shaded. It seems that poison ivy prefers that environment. As a kid, all I had to do was walk in the general area of poison ivy and I'd break out in those water pustules and itch like *ell for weeks! As a kid I well remember walking around stiff from dried calamine lotion cracking on my skin and the scabs leaking through it.

When riding a lawn tractor that is spewing large quantities of chopped up green material out the blade exhaust, there's no way to know exactly what's in the mix. And when mowing in windy conditions, each time you turn, you take the chance of all that wind blown material coating you. So this morning I have come to waking with many areas of those pustules popping up, some in most aggravating places that are virtually unreachable to scratch   Going forward I think long sleeves, long pants, gloves and a dust mask will be the order of things...


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## Hens and Roos

Sorry to hear of your reaction- its no fun for sure....I have to wear long sleeves and jeans when cutting grass as I break out with a rash from touching our pine trees


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## CntryBoy777

Might I add a belt with shirt tucked in?....sure am sorry ya are dealing with such irritating and uncomfortable conditions. The oil of the plant is what is the cause, and rubbing alcohol cuts the oil. There is a spray we get from WallyWorld called Ivy-Dry, it aids with the itching much more than calamine lotion. If you are contacted by the plant wipe the area first with the alcohol to remove the oil before using soap and water....they will just spread the oil and infect other areas. Try very hard to not pop the blisters, but if they are, then wipe with alcohol to stop the spreading. We like to scald the areas with really hot water in the shower, it feels really good like a deep scratch. Those prickly needles can be like splinters of the cedars, too. Shorts, flip-flops, and tank tops aren't in a farmer's wardrobe for a reason. Sure hope ya get more comfortable shortly, but will be a week or so.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh noooo!  I'm not allergic so I can't say I know how you feel.  But, I watched my son suffer with it for years.  Hope you get better soon!


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## goatgurl

ya need to get some of those old one piece mechanics coveralls to 'cover all' then you can go totally commando with out a care in the world.  take bang for a walk on a leash and take her from tree to tree where the poison ivy is growing and let her eat her fill of it.  next day milk her and drink the milk.  gives a great immunity to the stuff.  I use to get a horrible rash just thinking of it but after doing that I might get a bump or two but nothing like before, wise old woman in west Virginia told me about that better than 40 years ago.  now we all know i'm a little strange but when I drank the milk I have to put chocolate in it because my mind knows it was going to taste funny,  it doesn't but I still do the chocolate thing. just a side note, don't let bang give you kisses after her snack.
@greybeard you are exactly right about the tote cages.  got mine from a guy on CL who was selling the complete thing and I called him and asked if he had any cages alone and bingo $10 later I was the proud owner of said cage.  doesn't  work worth a darn for horned goats but for my hornless ladies it works like a charm. 
  and @Latestarter I have news of miss spot the pig.  the gentlemen down the hill, back in the woods where she ran to said he has pictures of her with a group of wild hogs on one of his game cams so at least we know she is alive and well.  he traps wild hogs from time to time and is going to see if he can't get her in with the group.  what you willing to pay for ransom?


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## Latestarter

I had heard of the goat eating ivy then drinking the milk to build up immunity. Had never been able to test that out, and will need to wait just a bit more. Need to get a milk stand built. and those two kids seem to be keeping her pretty well empty...



goatgurl said:


> I have to put chocolate in it because my mind knows it was going to taste funny, it doesn't but I still do the chocolate thing.




If your neighbor is able to recapture her, let me know what ransom he wants to charge and I'll determine if it's worth the $$ to pay it and come back to get her (with a legit livestock trailer!). I am glad that the flight didn't kill her or seriously/permanently damage her. Hogs are some tough critters!


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## goatgurl

look at it this way, you can be pretty sure she'll come back with a belly full of babies.  just what you wanted, a litter of pigs, right.  i'll keep you informed. 
ya know that bangs babies are plenty old enough to separate at night so you can have the morning milk.  I wasn't so sure the poison ivy/milk thing would work either.  was scared to death that I would drink it and have blisters all down my throat but nope, worked great and has been working for 40 years now.  I do the poison ivy/ milk thing almost every spring so I really do swear by it.


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## babsbag

@Latestarter. Sorry about the poison oak/ivy, it is miserable.  I just want to point out that the oils are also on the mower, the seat, the blades, everything, and it can linger there forever and ever. I have gotten it off of my chainsaw months after using it.  Also any clothes that you wear and anyplace you lay those clothes down can lead to getting poison oak at a latter date.  Also shoes. My clothes go straight to the washing machine and I never wash underclothes or uncontaminated clothes with "dirty" clothes. HOT water and HOT rinse, extra rinse is even better.  I wear washable shoes, washables gloves too. A droplet of oil the size of a pinhead is all it takes.


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## babsbag

I was told the same thing as @goatgurl about the goat's milk and poison oak and I too agree that it works. I don't get it nearly as bad as I used to. As a child my family knew a lady that ran a group foster home and she said she gave the children goat's milk and after a few months no more poison oak.

But you won't find any scientific evidence that says that it works, everything says that it doesn't. I don't drink raw milk anymore so I wonder if that makes a difference in building up resistance?


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## Mike CHS

I emphasize since I have been there but your post had me wanting to seriously laugh out loud. I was (until this farm life) always wearing a tank top and shorts to do all of the weed eating and mow but now it is long pants and often mud boots and shirt for those things.  I'm still good with the areas that are mowed regularly but anything on the fringes gets all the HAZMAT gear out and worn..


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## greybeard

Try Tyvek slip on coveralls over your shorts and shortsleeve shirt. They breathe but keep out most particles including most liquid droplets. Home Depot usually carries them. 
I wear them when spraying.


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## CntryBoy777

Not to mention the waves of critters ya haven't gotten to yet, like ticks, chiggers, oak tree mites, and others. They make skeeters seem harmless....and Commando is just the kind of areas they just Love to seek out. Chiggers will fall from trees above you too.


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## Baymule

Howling with laughter over here! Had to read your adventure to BJ and we had a good laugh, totally at your expense. Having one of those "Duh" moments?  As in, wear a long sleeved shirt, long pants, boots or tennis shoes with socks and a wide brimmed hat......underwear optional.....So first you got itchy butt syndrome from the cedar needles needling your patatootie, then you took  a shower in mower chewed bits of poison ivy (that really was a stroke of genius as the smaller particles can really work themselves under loose fitting clothing) and you woke up looking and feeling like you'd been staked out over a fire ant (pronounced fahr aint in TEXAS) hill overnight. Oh, you gotta stop it, my ribs are hurting I really don't want to have this mental picture of your cedar needle whelped butt or other parts of your body  covered in poison ivy pustules in inappropriate places, so I shall avert my eyes, but still laughing over here.

Ok, I have to be nice (chuckle chuckle) go draw a warm tub of water and pour half a cup of Clorox in it. Submerge, but not your head. Scrub gently with a wash cloth, get out of the tub, pat dry (or you could just go commando and run around the back yard and drip dry) The Clorox will dry up the pustules, kill the itch and you will feel better. You may have to do this several times. In the meantime, you can also go to WallyWorld in the sunburn section and buy a bottle of aloe vera gel with lidocaine. Apply generously, preferably not while in the store. This is one that is best done at home. It will also give relief to your cedar needle rump-a-ti-tus.


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## frustratedearthmother

Sounds like great advice - but aren't ya kinda glad that @Baymule isn't your nurse!!     No sympathy there!!


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## babsbag

Fortunately just ticks here. I pulled one out of me yesterday and one out of DH the day before.


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## babsbag

For the poison oak itch I take the HOTTEST shower I can possibly stand and then make it hotter. It will itch like crazy during the shower but releases the histamines and then the itch is gone, or better, for about 12 hours.  

When we bought our land here I had a city girl moment and we burned piles of poison oak. It had no leaves in the winter and while I knew what it was it just didn't register that it was still capable of making me miserable; it used to be that all I had to do was look at the stuff and I would get it.  I carried it to the burn pile by the bundle and it was a nice warm winter day so I had on a short sleeve shirt.  I ended up visiting the doctor over that one. Also when I took the HOT shower I almost passed out. I think that so many histamines were released that I was going into shock.


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## Latestarter

Glad y'all were able to get a chuckle out of my "miscalculations"... I lead a rather interesting life here... Well, I do just happen to have a jacuzzi, and it has been getting used. It helps. I've also been wiping down with alcohol to dry them out.The problem with separating the kids is catching the danged things... They are self propelled ping pong kids. They are fast and very hard to trap. Thought it was bad trying to catch them up at your place... They've matured!

Sorry about your bout with poison oak Babs... I have never had it that I know of and don't even know what it looks like. When a kid we had poison ivy and poison sumac... I never got sumac, just the ivy.

I need to build a milk stand. Maybe this weekend.


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## goatgurl

honest we're not laughing at but laughing with you.  ok, i'm not being real truthful here, we're laughing at you but I can bet that every one of us has done something similar at one time or another.  so we really do feel your pain, errr itch.
   and you know that you can lock up mom and leave the babies for aunt dot to baby sit.  just a thought.


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## babsbag

Poison oak and ivy look very similar, the oak has softer looking lobes on the leaves. They have the same irritating oil... Urushiol...so I imagine that the rash is the same.


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## Mike CHS

I love starting the day with a good laugh and this latest thread definitely did that.


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## Baymule

In a much younger place in my life, I went out back with a weed sling, dressed in shorts and a halter top. I decimated the poison oak, but it got me back. I can laugh at you because I have done practically the same and paid dearly for it.  The I had to go to work in steel toed boots, jeans, long sleeved denim shirt, safety glasses, gloves, all while my skin was on fire.


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## Mike CHS

I did the same right after we bought this place and was one solid scab from my ankles to my thigh.  I probably had a couple of spots on my shoulder that was scab free but not much.


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## CntryBoy777

....This is eastern poison oak, it has 5 leaves and they are jagged around the edges.
  ....This is poison ivy, its leaves are in triplets, and the 2 outer leaves look like mittens with a jagged middle leaf.
  ....here they are growing together on an oak tree. Whether on the ground or up a tree they usually be around each other, along with sumac. Mainly in partial sun to full shade and is very prolific.


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## Bruce

Might I suggest getting a mulching kit for your mower Joe? That way you can use it in the "suspect" areas and not blow poison oil leaves all over the place. 

Sorry for your troubles !!


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## norseofcourse

TMI, but      but trust me, I do sympathize with you!  I also get poison ivy really, really bad, and moved here to 6 acres of LOTS of poison ivy.  I once spent a couple hours clearing out poison ivy vines from a flower bed, that's when I discovered that latex gloves are only oil resistant for about 15 minutes - yep, poison ivy all over both hands, arms up to my elbows, and on my face where I'd touched without noticing.  That's when I discovered the wonders of steroids     But I took a much lower dose than they prescribed, just enough to be effective, and tapered down from there.

I now have a 3-glove system when I'm going to be cutting or pulling it.  Nitrile gloves first, then the long OB sleeves that go to your shoulder, then latex gloves on top.  I have dedicated poison ivy tools (folding saw, pruners) in a bucket that I only touch when gloved up.  I touch nothing with those gloves, once I've touched poison ivy.  Once done, remove gloves without touching skin or clothing, and go in and wash anyway.  I have not gotten it when I follow this routine and am careful about cross contamination.

I am so sensitive to the oil in poison ivy that I get the same rash from touching cashews (they are related).  I hardly get it now, but that's only because I stay very aware of what I'm touching, and if I make contact I make sure to go in and wash within 15 minutes.  Between me and the ponies and sheep, we've gotten rid of most of it around the house and in the pasture.  Now the worst areas are outside the pasture fence, right where I need to keep mowed and cleared.  There's poison ivy vines going up trees that are massive - vines as big around as my arm.

Hope some of the home remedies folks have written about work for you, and it clears up fast.


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## Latestarter

Yup, Yup... I ran a whole bunch of this sort of thing down out of the trees by running over the bottom portion with the mower deck. This and those danged green thorn vines.

Sorry about the TMI thing... it just wouldn't have been quite as humorous nor would it have been as genuine without it. And I hope I didn't go too far


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> This and those danged green thorn vines.


Probably Green Briar. Goats may eat it down, I dunno, but it will grow back even if cut down. It is very difficult to get rid of. Shiny, waxy leaf makes it impervious to water based herbicides.
According to TAMU, the way to eradicate it is to mix a 25:75 ratio of Remedy Ultra herbicide and diesel and spot spray the foliage and stems with a 2 gal garden sprayer or backpack sprayer. Should get about a 85% kill rate after first application. Repeat as necessary. Remedy Ultra has no soil activity and no residual effect in soil, but the diesel will kill any grass droplets fall on. You can also use a crop oil, such as canola oil or even ordinary vegetable cooking oil instead of diesel. The oil acts as a penetrate to get into the waxy leaves. Water based spray will just run off the leaf and stems.

GreenBrier has a lot of energy stored in it's root system year 'round, and cutting it encourages more growth. You either have to just keep cutting it until the regrowth expends all the stored energy or spray it.


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## norseofcourse

CntryBoy777 said:


> View attachment 31645 ....This is eastern poison oak, it has 5 leaves and they are jagged around the edges.
> View attachment 31646  ....This is poison ivy, its leaves are in triplets, and the 2 outer leaves look like mittens with a jagged middle leaf.
> View attachment 31647  ....here they are growing together on an oak tree. Whether on the ground or up a tree they usually be around each other, along with sumac. Mainly in partial sun to full shade and is very prolific.


That first one looks like Virginia Creeper?  I have a lot of it here and it does grow alongside the poison ivy.  It is supposed to cause a reaction to some people who handle it.


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## Bruce

Could you kill off PO (either one ) with a flame thrower? I decided to get a Red Dragon for my birthday last month, haven't used it yet. Super high spot heat is supposed to do serious damage to the roots of plants. You don't flame the foliage, just let it die from lack of a healthy root. I don't THINK I have any PO so I can't test that for you. I think my first test will be on the colt's foot (when I get some time).


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## Devonviolet

Wow!  I have been too busy to get on BYH more than a few minutes at a time, lately, @Latestarter.  I don't know why, but your thread doesn't seem to ever show up in my alerts. So, I only see it when I look at the active threads list. 

Anyway, this morning I realized that I missed a lot of posts yesterday, and got caught up on your trials and tribulations.  What a stitch!!!    DH and I were laughing our heads off reading about all your poison ivy and mowing cedar woes. 

Interesting thing, we realized while reading about your problems with poison ivy . . . Over the,years, we have both had problems,with poison ivy. Yet, since we have been here - mowing and cutting weeds, with lots of poison ivy, neither one of us has gotten that blister rash. I'm not sure why, but we are planning to take the girls, to browse on areas where we have poison ivy growing.

@Graybeard mentioned Tyvek overalls, to keep poison ivy oil off skin and I think it was @CntryBoy777, who  suggested usIng them when working in areas, where there are ticks, chiggers (and even "fahr aints", for that matter).  We have chiggers really bad, back in the pasture and into the woods. Chiggers are what drive both of us crazy most of the Summer!!!     

We are planning to spread sulphur, to get rid of the chiggers.  Does anyone know if the chiggers bother goats?


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## greybeard

About 4 decades ago, my area was over run with what is known a seed ticks, because there was a high number of cattle free range in the county. I very much remember us having to sprinkle sulphur on our boots and jeans legs to try to keep them off, but it did little to help. They were horrible...you could actually see the tiny things moving up your legs in a dark cloud. Fortunately, when the county voted to end free range here, the seed ticks were diminished in numbers and then, when the fire ants moved in, they disappeared altogether. 
(not sure if that was a good trade off or not but at least I can see the fire ant mounds and avoid them)

Be careful about broadcasting sulphur on your yard and pasture. It is often used  to lower the pH in soils just as lime is used to raise pH.

http://www.grow-it-organically.com/changing-soil-ph.html


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## Devonviolet

Just a thought . . . what if we mix the lime & sulphur?  Or would the lime counter the effectiveness of the sulphur???

The article you reference, says sulphur doesn't change the pH quickly, and should be applied (dug into the soil) several times a season. We were planning to use a dry fertilizer spreader, set on the lowest setting, to spread our sulphur thinly. I believe it's a really fine powder, which can clog a spreader. So, we are planning to add course sand to the mix. Btw, we have 6" of loam over clay.


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## CntryBoy777

@Devonviolet IMHO, I think ya will be wasting your $$ with it, because chiggers will fall down on ya from trees above ya as the wind shakes the limbs. There are also oak tree mites that are very similar and itch like the dickens for a couple of wks. The best defense against them is keeping grass/weed height low, and if working in an overgrown area, as soon as ya come in strip...and put clothes in washer as ya head to the shower and wash off any that may be on ya. They will overnite in/on your shoes or boots too, so if ya can wear a different pair the next day. They are drawn to heat and dark colored clothes. Spraying with Off or Deet around pants legs, shoes, and sleeve cuffs will deter some, but not all. The "Old Timers" around these parts still use twine soaked in kerosene tied around the pants legs and shirt cuffs to ward them off.


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> About 4 decades ago, my area was over run with what is known a seed ticks, because there was a high number of cattle free range in the county. I very much remember us having to sprinkle sulphur on our boots and jeans legs to try to keep them off, but it did little to help. They were horrible...you could actually see the tiny things moving up your legs in a dark cloud.


Yikes! That must have seemed like a nightmare!  Actually, now that you mention it, we might have some of those seed ticks around here. I have found some tiny, black ticks crawling on my legs & DH's arms.  I wasn't sure if the might not be a nymph stage, of a regular tick.  We have also found the big green ticks on the dogs.


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## Latestarter

I remember working out in the woods in North Carolina years ago when the ticks and chiggers were really bad. We had kerosene in a spray bottle and sprayed our pants legs and shoes/boots to keep them at bay. It worked as far as I recall. I remember walking along a shore line on the fresh water side of the outer banks and stopped to take in the view. When I looked down the ground was a moving brownish/red-burgundy colored carpet... It was chiggers and they had crawled up onto my sneakers and were crawling up my pants legs and inside my pants on my legs. I got out of there as fast as I could and drove home and got directly in the tub/shower fully dressed and man, did I learn a lesson from that! I scratched bites for weeks all the way up to my thighs.


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## Devonviolet

Yikes!!!   That would have freaked me out !!!      I might have pulled my trousers off, run into the water up to my thighs & scrubbed my legs off before getting into my car, to go home to shower!  I would be concerned about taking the chiggers home with me, in the car!!!    

UGH!!!  I HATE chiggers!!!


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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> Just a thought . . . what if we mix the lime & sulphur?  Or would the lime counter the effectiveness of the sulphur???
> 
> The article you reference, says sulphur doesn't change the pH quickly, and should be applied (dug into the soil) several times a season. We were planning to use a dry fertilizer spreader, set on the lowest setting, to spread our sulphur thinly. I believe it's a really fine powder, which can clog a spreader. So, we are planning to add course sand to the mix. Btw, we have 6" of loam over clay.


I dunno about mixing a neutral combination to retain current pH. Never had the luxury of not needing lime.
Almost always, pH doctoring is a lengthy process and has to be done in advance of fertilizing--at least a season in advance to give it time to work.
You can get sulphur in little pellets too, or granules. Usually held together with bentonite, but I don't know if the pellets would help with the chiggers.

About fertilizer. Lots of bagged fertilizeer now have 4 #s instead of the three NPK number. The 4th # is usually a pH conditioner, and is often sulphur. Reason being, fertilize and petrochemical plants have an surplus of suphur as a byproduct, and someone came up with the bright idea of putting it in fertilize to get rid of it at a slight profit, tho sulphur does provide benefits for plant growth too.

Yep, them seed ticks are a bad memory. We tried to avoid certain plants, like French Mulberry. Just brush against one and the seed ticks would shower down off of them and on to your pants leg. Brother and I were mid teen at time and hated to go to gym class in school because of all the bites on our lower legs and our poor older sisters..well you know how teenage girls are about their skin conditions. Seen my youngest older sister cry about what her legs looked like.


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## CntryBoy777

Well LS I've never had that situation with chiggers, but I certainly have with ticks. I had a couple of dogs die in my backyard back in the early '80s from poisoning by a neighbor. I took care of them and took them and buried them back in some woods a ways from the house. I had to cut the yard and I had a bagger push mower, put grass in big plastic bags to put out for the next garbage pickup. It was about 4-5 days later that the garbage truck headed up the street...I ran to the backyard to tote the bags out in tennis shoes and shorts....got them all out there and was walking back up to the house and felt something crawling on my legs...looked down and there were hundreds, in not thousands of baby ticks crawling up my legs. I ran in the house and told my wife at that time to go get the gas can. I went and stood in the bath tub and dowsed my legs with gas, shoes and all. Then washed with soap and water. I had never seen ticks like that before. I went and looked around the backside of the house and it was covered...even across the chain-link posts and gate. I dusted so much sevin dust it looked like it had snowed. I guess the dogs had some ticks on them, and when an animal dies the ticks leave the carcass. So, I fully understand your actions, but I would've been more inclined to do as @Devonviolet and went it the water wearing everthing....vehicle will dry....but, I want them off Now.


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## Latestarter

So I caught up Dot and Bang and took them out and attached them to a 25 foot plastic coated wire lead on a spiral dog stake so they could load up on fresh greens. I would have taken April out as well, but I couldn't catch her. She wanted nothing to do with me. I'm seriously considering attaching a 20 foot drag line to her collar so I'll have something to aim for when trying to catch her. She's one fast goat. Actually, I better go out and put those two back in the pen again. It's almost time to give them their afternoon grain.


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## CntryBoy777

April sounds a lot like Lightning....when we used to have to catch them to walk them, we had to catch Lightning 1st and then the others, otherwise the 2 of us couldn't catch him. Ya may give it a try anyway. May take some tasty sweet gum branch to entice her with....with the others still in the pen, she may be more relaxed and unsuspecting, but being alone means something is happening and she is wary and skiddish....just a thought.


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## babsbag

The more I read of things like ticks, chiggers, and "fahr ants" the more I like living in CA.


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## Bruce

Ya gotta bribe April until she comes to you Joe  
Of course I've been bribing the alpacas twice a day since October and they still don't want to be touched.


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## Mike CHS

I found the best way was to let them work it out with food primarily.  Our newest ewe would not come near anyone even at the farm she came from.  I take in fresh grass and she is with our tamest ewe and her lamb. They  both like being scratched and I do that with them when I go in.  The new ewe watches but isn't interested in being touched.  When I take their pellets in at feeding time I just squat down with the pellets in a bucket in front of me and of course Notag and Hoss come right at me but I don't let them get in the bucket.  I don't push it and then put the feed in their bowls.  It took two weeks but now I can go in the pen with fresh grass and all of them come up and get grass from the bag.  She still watches me waiting for me to pounce but I don't try to touch her.  I don't know if goats are the same but they do watch how you interact with the other animals.  I can squat in front of Notag and she will lean in to get her scratches.  Hoss is the same way and you could roll him over if you wanted to.

That was pretty much the way we did our original ten and now they look for the scratching. We are new at all this but it has worked for us.


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## Devonviolet

When we got our wethers, they would get out once in a while. At first we panicked and then I grabbed a small bucket & put a little bit of grain in it.  Before I called the goat, I took a leash, made a slip noose, with the handle, put it loosely over the wrist, of the hand, that I held the grain bucket in.

I shook the bucket, so the goat knew it had grain in it.  It never failed. The goat came running & started the eating grain. Once his head was in the bucket, I slipped the noose over his head, and he had an instant leash.  It works every time.  

When we first got the girls, the door, to the hoop hut, didn't latch and the girls ran out.  At first I panicked, & then I remembered the grain bucket/leash trick.  It worked like a dream.  Instant leash!


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## Southern by choice

We had a buck that we got at 8 months old ( i think he was 8 months). He was not handled at all. I mean we had to catch him in a 12x12 stall... the whole group of kids just had no hands on no handling. We had him for years he never did come around. He would come up and watch us love all the goats around him but he wouldn't let us touch him. There were a few times we did then he realized a flew like a bat out you know what. One year we couldn't even get ahold of him to put him in the breeding pen. We moved him to make it easier and then we lotted him come breeding season. He was ok to touch through the fence but always hesitant.
He was never abused just never handled, the lady was honest about it.  You'd think eventually he'd come round. He didn't. But he was a sweet goat, caused no issues, never mean or aggressive. We figured we could never sell him because we thought he'd just go from home to home because of his issues with people. He was too sweet and so gentle we couldn't do that to him. He remained here til we lost him from the Chaffhaye incident. So sad, he fought so hard but I think all the handling and us having to move him to a stall for treatment just was too much. He didn't recuperate. 
I imagine she may come around for you ... does are a bit different and she has had handling. If your doe doesn't come round I would recommend pulling her kids at birth, she will bond with you then.


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## Devonviolet

Southern by choice said:


> If your doe doesn't come round I would recommend pulling her kids at birth, she will bond with you then.


Ya know! Southern makes a really good point.

When we first got Falina & Ruby, neither one would come near me, and when I tried to pet them . . . Forget it!  Then, I needed to give them a CDT one month before kidding. What a challenge!

Trying to get them on the milk stand was another challenge.  They wouldn't even try to get up. We tried enticing them with grain. They would eat it out of my hand, and if I held it out of reach, they stretched their neck out to try to eat it. But, refused to get on the stand. So, we lifted their front feet onto the stand. Still nothing.  So, finally, I started making them eat their meals on the milk stand. When they smelled their goat ration, it was the incentive they needed.  I started leading them, on leash to the stand. Now, they RUN and jump on the stand, to eat.

I told Goatgurl I didn't think they were ever going to let me touch them.  She said, just give them time. Once they have their kids, make sure you hold the kids right away.  Let her see you touching & loving on her kids - let her smell her kids on you. All will be well between you and the girls.

Sure enough, once their kids were born, it was like night and day.  All of a sudden I could touch Ruby & Falina all I want.

Of course, I think the fact that we are the ones that feed them might have something to do with that.  If I'm not mistaken, most goats are food obsessed,   and they will respond to the hand that feeds them.


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## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> The more I read of things like ticks, chiggers, and "fahr ants" the more I like living in CA.


Well, I have to say . . . I love living in Texas . . . Except for the heat, chiggers, fahr aints, red wasps and ticks!  Other than that, Texas is a great place to live!


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## Latestarter

Well, GREAT news!  latest report from NOAA.gov:

"Scattered showers and thunderstorms possible Friday afternoon and evening. Some storms may be produce large hail, damaging winds or tornadoes mainly along and north of the  Interstate 30 corridor during the evening.  Showers and thunderstorms again expected along a cold front that will move across the Four State Region from west to east on Saturday night through Sunday. Some thunderstorms will be severe, with large hail, damaging wind gusts and isolated tornadoes being the main threats. Additionally moderate to  heavy rainfall will be possible with higher amounts up to 5 inches possible across the Interstate 30 corridor."

Supposed to start sometime tomorrow afternoon and last till Sunday night. Looks like the line runs E-W and is slowly moving south through OK right now. So if that continues, I guess they call for it to stall out pretty much right over the top of me and train for a while. Looking forward to seeing the creek after this one gets underway. Least all my fence posts are moved to high ground now. Shouldn't have to retrieve them again   At least they said mainly NORTH of the I-30 corridor... I'm about 10 miles south of I-30. Hope I don't have to break in the shelter.

The guy who was supposed to be picking my mower up today called and told me he broke down and was limping back to the shop for his own truck repairs and wouldn't be able to pick it up till next Thursday.  So I asked him to text me the repair shop location and I'll trailer it over there tomorrow. I can't wait another week just to even start the repair process. Side benefit is I'll get to talk to them directly. Still, hadn't planned on this drive as it's almost 2 hours over toward Dallas. So, gotta get up and get rolling early tomorrow. I need to beat the rain.


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## Bruce

That is a hike!! At least you have the ability to take it to them instead of no option but to wait.


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## CntryBoy777

Just a quick remark....not to revisit the past, but just thought of it...about the poison ivy stuff. Do not burn any of it green in a fire and stand near, around, or downwind in the smoke. I know a couple of folks that have and they ended up in the hospital because the reation to it was in the lungs. Be careful and remember, please....now back to regular programming.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> "Scattered showers and thunderstorms possible Friday afternoon and evening. Some storms may be produce large hail, damaging winds or tornadoes mainly along and north of the Interstate 30 corridor during the evening. Showers and thunderstorms again expected along a cold front that will move across the Four State Region from west to east on Saturday night through Sunday. Some thunderstorms will be severe, with large hail, damaging wind gusts and isolated tornadoes being the main threats. Additionally moderate to heavy rainfall will be possible with higher amounts up to 5 inches possible across the Interstate 30 corridor."



Just wonderful. I'm leaving sometime this afternoon or early tonight for Bowie County..


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## dejavoodoo114

goatgurl said:


> I wasn't so sure the poison ivy/milk thing would work either.  was scared to death that I would drink it and have blisters all down my throat but nope, worked great and has been working for 40 years now.  I do the poison ivy/ milk thing almost every spring so I really do swear by it.



I wish someone had told us about this years ago when we started! We found this out by lucky accident. My DH always puts the goats milk in his coffee. He went from having to visit the hospital for steroids a couple of times a year to never having more than small red marks on his skin that don't even itch!

@Latestarter, are you bringing in the whole mower to get the blades sharpened? Or did something else happen that I missed? Good luck with your storms. We are still dealing with the flooding from this past weekends massive rain fall.


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## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> Scattered showers and thunderstorms possible Friday afternoon and evening. Some storms may be produce large hail, damaging winds or tornadoes mainly along and north of the Interstate 30 corridor during the evening.



Yep, happy to be living in CA.  Hope you don't have to break in that shelter. 

About the goats and what Southern said...I have almost an entire herd of goats I can't catch. I think I am selling all the kids from this year but one or two and that is because I haven't been able to switch them to a bottle and they will be wild. I am too old for wild goats. I may try the diapers, holding them on my lap and watching a movie like @ragdollcatlady suggested and see if that calms them down. I also find that wild dams raise wild kids.


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## Latestarter

Well, as I was riding the tractor toward and into the trailer I decided to give the blades another chance. The first two attempts stalled the motor, the third got all the blades spinning again.   So no big $$ repairs should be necessary   There was a chunk of branch stuck in/under there that I hadn't seen when I looked.

DJVD, yeah, I still brought the tractor in and explained that it's leaving streaks of un-cut grass so I need the blades checked, sharpened, balanced, or replaced if bent. I also cried on their shoulder about needing it back post haste... They said the soonest they could even look at it would be Monday and hopefully it will be done/ready by Thursday. I told them to call me when it's done and I will drive there to pick it up. I don't want to wait a week after it's done for a delivery to be scheduled. It's under warranty, so I may not have to pay for anything. Even if they say warranty doesn't cover it, part of the warranty covers 50% of new blades, so still in my favor.

Looks like the weather report has been tempered somewhat. Though it's cloudy and VERY humid right now with a pretty good southerly breeze blowing in more moisture, there's only a 20% chance of showers today and this evening, increasing into tomorrow afternoon and evening, then clearing out and "cold" on Sunday (yes 65 degrees now feels pretty cool to me ) I used to do shorts and flip flops into the 50s... not so much anymore. Even with the added insulation on my frame I seem to get chilled easier.  Mid 50s used to be my favorite temp when I was in my 20s/30s. Then it seemed the mid 60's couldn't be better when I was in my mid 40's. As I reached my mid-late 50's I crave temps in the mid to upper 70s... Once it hits 80, I start getting a bit uncomfortable, but that might just be the added humidity here. Another month and I'll be entering my 60's so who knows what temp will work for me going forward 

Thanks for the warning about burning ivy CB... Know all about that, not from personal experience but because I've been allergic to it since a wee child... Had to learn all about it to avoid it.  Hope you have a safe trip Greybeard.

I'll give April a while longer... it's only been a week or two. Hopefully she'll learn to love me   I mean I am the bringer of food and treats after all. I need to get a metal can that stuff will rattle in so they all learn the sound and come running. Then I can try the noose over wrist thing that DV uses... She's real jumpy when I even move my other hand/arm toward her while she's taking a treat from me.


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## CntryBoy777

Glad ya found the chunk under it. Now, just think about it this way....ya have 2 blades turning under a 46-50" deck...which is stiff and ridgid and is 1 unit. Every bump, knoll, roll, etc canges the angle of that 1 unit.....not to mention the lean of it when ya turn, and this is without factoring in the bend and resistance of the grass/weed fiber which is being cut. There is also speed that has to be factored in and throttle.
So, I'm not saying not to replace the blades, but if/when ya do, don't expect a manicured cut to it ever, unless ya level everything....


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## Baymule

More storms! Saturday, Saturday night and Sunday. It sucks for people that work all week and want to do something on the weekend---NOT this one!


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## goatgurl

when you stake dippin' dot and bang out leave april in, take two buckets, a big one to sit on and a small one with her grain.  sit down and rattle the grain bucket and when she comes to you and she eventually will because she is greedy just let her eat with you holding the bucket close in to you.  or feed her bites out of your hand.  don't try to touch her the first day or two and then slowly start petting her neck and shoulders.  its going to take her some time.  remember I told you that they had grown up with no one around but me and a big old hairy legged man is not something they have ever had to deal with.  you're going to take some getting use to. lol  or take some animal crackers out and just sit with her, don't try to catch her at first just sit quite quietly and let her learn that you're not a threat. 
  well, tomorrow is dot's due date.  anxious to see what she gives you.  and remember what you tell everyone else... we love pictures and I know for a fact that you have a good camera.
   no more news about spot the pig since the game cam pictures of her.  will let you know if they catch her in their hog trap.


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## Goat Whisperer

goatgurl said:


> a big old hairy legged man is not something they have ever had to deal with


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## Latestarter

OK, for the tractor, there are 3 blades. the center blade overlaps the cut line of the two outer blades by just a bit. The deck isn't square or rectangular, it's TRI-angular. The center blade sits back and not in line with the other two so the blades never actually interfere with each other, they just overlap the cutting area. If the edges of the blades are damaged and not cutting, then it leaves 2 stripes of uncut material right along the outside edges of that center blade. Now, if the blades can be sharpened and balanced so the edges cut again, that will fix it. If they can't be, then new blades will fix it. The stripes weren't there when the unit was new. They appeared and increased over time as the blades took damage from rocks, roots, branches, stumps, vines, etc.

"Big old hairy legged man" huh? Harumph! They aren't that hairy at all!   I'm not worried about April. She runs right up to the fence and fights for her share of treats... I think the issue the other day was I left her till last. I need to move her first, then Bang, then Dot last as Dot has no fear of me at all. Dot hasn't started drainage or roping and no vaginal/vulva swelling or drippage at all. I've felt for ligs but can't find them... don't know if they're there and I can't identify them or they're legit gone. She hasn't been acting strange or doing anything that would indicate she's due. Figures though that we have real bad weather forecast for next 2 days, so maybe she'll surprise me. I will plan on pictures of course. 

Wanted to use the jacuzzi tonight but it's just too hot and humid out there... still 81 degrees and 80%+ humidity. AC is running and has been since early afternoon.

Went to Chili's tonight and addressed 2 cravings; buffalo wings and baby back ribs. Haven't been out to eat in quite a while. Was nice.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> They appeared and increased over time as the blades took damage from rocks, roots, branches, stumps, vines, etc.


Might I suggest that you not mow rocks, roots, branches and stumps?? Would be nice to NOT have all those things.

The blades on my mower don't get nicked up at all 

OK they do get hit pretty good no matter how hard I try but I sharpen my own. I'm giving serious consideration to buying one of those garden tractor "jacks" that lift up the front of the mower so you can get under the deck without taking it off. 

First it would be a lot easier to get the blades off for sharpening so it would get done more often. 
Second it would make it possible to get all the "glued on" grass off with a hose as the "deck wash" thing is a massive joke. It washes the chlorophyll of the "glue" but doesn't clean 99% of the grass out. Maybe it would if you mowed 1/8" every day. I have to reach in under the deck and scrape the grass out with my hands or take the deck off and "stand" it up against something to hit with the hose.


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## CntryBoy777

@Bruce have ya tried those metal ramps ya can get to pull a car up on in order to change oil? They used to come with a pair of jack stands and a floor jack. My Dad has some, but haven't tried to run the rider up on them yet, so I don't know if there is enough clearence. I do use the jack stands, tho Joyce has to position it while I lift it up.
Yeh, those limbs, branches, rocks, and such will do a number on those blades. I need to change mine too for the same reasons, but just can't take the time yet. Something tells me it just wasn't built for Farm use, but I will til it dies....


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## Latestarter

Never dropped below 78 degrees last night and the humidity got worse. Climbed out of bed at ~8:30 this morning... an hour or so later than I've been getting up. Something to do with having animals to feed I guess. Didn't sleep much or well last night either. Ended up spending several hours in my recliner.  It's gray and dark and misting/spitting rain... humidity is 100%. 

So just to clarify, I still do have to go out and feed the animals when the weather is less than desirable? Are y'all sure on this? Hmmmm... May have to rethink this "farming" thing  OK, so had a good look at Dot's butt... still nothing really indicative of "ready to kid". She has dropped, there are nice hollows right forward of her hips up high. Her vulva "might" be a little more "swollen" than "normal" but still no discharge, no change in eating habits, no nesting, no pawing, no stretching, no attitude change... I'm guessing she's gonna be one of those "shock and awe" kinda goats... Nothing and no indication then 1/2 an hour later, multiple kids on the ground, dry, standing, and nursing.   Maybe she's just waiting for the really bad weather due later. Which right now is rumbling pretty good up in OK and points north and east from there. They're saying 100% chance of rain here today and tonight into tomorrow, so I guess there's a better than average chance it's gonna rain.

I had one last 6" x 8' fence post that was fully down in the creek. I've been putting off trying to fish it out cause I just didn't want to deal with it. Well, seeing as we're supposed to get a potential 5+" of rain over the next 36 hours, and I know that would wash it away for sure, I went down & retrieved it. I had to cut the barbed wire fencing on both sides of a rusted out and bent over 90 degrees T post. Then dropped a ladder over the bank and down into the stream bed (still a good foot or more of water from the most recent rains). I used a ratchet strap around the post then pulled it out with my truck. Saved getting the feet wet since I don't have boots or waders. The barbed wire fencing I cut was never gonna be used anyways, so no biggie. Hopefully it will now no longer damn up the water flow either. Man, the mosquitoes down there are like clouds! I'm not normally down there except when the sun is shining bright, and then they're are in hiding.

Bruce, I looked into one of those tractor lift things. They want like $150 for it and it only lifts I think it said like 24 inches. What the heck good is that? 24" is about useless to an old fart like me... No way I'm getting down and laying on my side or back under a 600 pound mower in 24" of working space to screw with blades. Sorry, just aint happenin'. I have a hydraulic jack that I used to lift the front of the mower when I needed to take off the front flat tire. I'll rig a pulley system to the rafters and attach to the front bumper or axle and haul that thing right up near vertical when and if it comes down to it. You have a barn with I imagine pretty decent sized rafter beams... I'm sure you could probably rig something similar up. Pulleys and some rope are a lot cheaper (and better IMHO) than one of those lifts. I have jack stands as well, no ramps though... I expect they'd present the same space limitations a lift would... Don't know, have never used either on a lawn tractor.

The mower has that hose attachment wash out feature, which I'll never use as I expected it was nothing more than a sales gimmick. Without direct water pressure on the matter being removed, and done immediately after use before it has a chance to dry, it's just going to get wet and set like concrete. I've never much worried about it anyway... I clean it out once a year at the end of the mowing season.

Man now I have mosquito bites as well as ivy rash to scratch... Lucky me!  So last night after dinner I went and did a little grocery shopping and broke down and bought a weather alert radio and set it up. Man that warning siren ought to wake the dead!  I also went ahead and bought one of those canister type table flashlight/lamps. Figured I better start getting the basics together before a time comes when I need them.


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## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> Figured I better start getting the basics together before a time comes when I need them.


Good plan!


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## Devonviolet

Goat Whisperer said:


>



 *X2 *



Latestarter said:


> So just to clarify, I still do have to go out and feed the animals when the weather is less than desirable? Are y'all sure on this? Hmmmm... May have to rethink this "farming" thing


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh, be careful with those Skeeters over there, they seem like B-52s when their area is fertile. That's a good idea on the pulley and ropes. I wish I could weld stuff, it sure would come in handy. I have thought though about building something out of wood, tho that is level with the upper ground of a slope and maintain that level out far enough to give me the ground clearence desired to work under the mower, or vehicle....kinda like those oil express change places. Since your only mowing during warmer mnths, being inside isn't that important...and some of us don't have Rafters.....got plenty of Slope tho....of varying degrees. Glad ya caught the big one and it didn't get away from ya. Sure hope Dot holds off thru the weather for ya....hope ya got a pancho just in case. We got one of those radios a while back, and ended up pulling the battery out of it. I just use a phone app. Those radios seem to repeat every 15 mins or so, and whenever any kind of warning go out it sounds off. You'll see, tho...just be sure to tune it to just your county and the ones next to ya the direction most storms travel in from, otherwise ya will never get any sleep.


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## greybeard

Odd weather here. 2nd day in a row of solid grey cloud cover, low, with the air humid and dusty and strong constant south wind. Sprinkled once, but no real rain or storm. All day yesterday, all night and same today...forecast has called for T-storms, some severe with 8-100% chance of rain same period as above and thru the night but so far that hasn't been the case. Pastures could use some rain tho. Been a pretty dry spring except for a few days when we got 2". I can easily drive anywhere on my place in my 2wd pickup.


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## greybeard

Lawn tractors...
Last real job I had was at a Kubota/MTD/CubRegret dealership working on tractors and lawn equipment--all brands and all sizes. We didn't turn any work away.
For lawn equipment, We had a mechanical lift, ramps, and a hyd lift, but it was easier, quicker, and safer just to spend the 5 minutes jerking the deck out from under the lawn tractor than getting it up on the lift and still having to work upside down on the blades..plus, a lift don't help if you have belt or pulley bearing problems to address on top of the deck. My own stuff, I still just pull the pins, disconnect the arms and cable and slide the deck out and do whatever I need to.

Your mower lesson for today:
While we're talking about mowers. You notice decks and blades have odd shapes to them, and they may not seem to make much sense, but they are designed for both blade clearance and grass lift..that is, the area under the deck is designed in a way that there is a negative pressure to lift the grass up so the blade can cut laid over grass and cut it all the same height. The back side of the blades (non-cutting edge) are also swept up (except for mulching blades) to increase this lifting capability, coupled with an area around the spindles that allow for some of the moving air to exit out thru the top of the mower. (Not all decks are made this way but see the first image)  The turbulence under there moves the air up toward the underside of the deck as well as out the chute on the side.  The most common reason for not getting a good lift and seeing areas not cut when making a turn is buildup of dirt and grass cuttings under the deck and on top of the deck. The cuttings can't move toward the outlet side of the deck and your blades are expending kinetic energy chopping up already cut grass that should have already exited the mower, not to mention your lawn tractor's engine and transmission is lugging around an extra bunch of dead weight for no reason. 
See the arrows pointing to the open areas around the spindles? They aren't there for no reason:






It's pretty easy to keep all that crap cleaned out if you
1. Don't cut grass with dew on it.
2. Keep the crap washed out from the underside after every use.
3. Keep the crap cleaned off from the top of the mower deck that pugs up the air exit holes around the spindles.

You can buy tools to help wash that stuff out with a garden hose, or you can make your own like I did. The tubing is malleable copper, meaning I can shape it multiple times any way I want without kinking it or breaking it. I have another one that connects to an air hose for the same purpose. (excuse the old 1/2 peanutbutter cracker on the table--cat didn't eat it after all)








Mower manufacturers make a pot load of $$ from selling repair parts, and nowhere is that more true than mower deck spindles. Some other time, I'll tell you how to save a lot of money instead of spending $90-$150 on a replacement spindle, as well as how to extend the life of replacement spindle bearings.  ('sealed for life bearings' means sealed for only as long as the manufacturer thinks should pass before you hand them some more of your hard earned $$$.)


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> ('sealed for life bearings' means sealed for only as long as the manufacturer thinks should pass before you hand them some more of your hard earned $$$.)


IOW. . . Planned obsolescence = taking $$$ out of your pocket & putting it in their pocket.


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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> IOW. . . Planned obsolescence = taking $$$ out of your pocket & putting it in their pocket.


as well as unscheduled rapid disassembly..


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## goatgurl

well, got no lift but I do have a pair of ramps that I put on the door jam of one of my out buildings takes it up to about 2 1/2 feet and I just crawl my fluffy self under it and do what I have to do.  my poor lawn mower thinks it is a mini tractor/brush hog.  I've just learned to deal with unlevel grass patterns.  heck i'll just mow in the opposite direction next timed.  next time I kill it i'll give you a call @greybeard.  the guy who works on it knows I use it summer and winter to haul things around the farm and works hard to keep it going..


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## greybeard

Nothing I detest more than being up under a mower and all that grass and dirt dropping down in my face. 

Ramps are good but I won't put a lawn tractor on jack stands. Generally, the unit just isn't heavy enough to stay perched up on the 2 square inches of jackstand . Least little work ya do creates a risk of it sliding off.


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## goatgurl

ditto.  jacks scare me to death but figure i'm safe under the ramps unless the whole building comes down.


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## frustratedearthmother

I lift mine with the FEL on the tractor....you can stand it on it's end and reach everything pretty easily.


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## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> I lift mine with the FEL on the tractor....you can stand it on it's end and reach everything pretty easily.


Some, it's fine to do that way. Others, it causes problems with engine and drive train fluids moving where it shouldn't. 

I do sometimes pick mine up with the hay fork on my bigger tractor if it's something other than deck work.


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## Bruce

Aha! Now I have an excuse to get a real tractor with an FEL @frustratedearthmother 



Latestarter said:


> Bruce, I looked into one of those tractor lift things. They want like $150 for it and it only lifts I think it said like 24 inches. What the heck good is that? 24" is about useless to an old fart like me... No way I'm getting down and laying on my side or back under a 600 pound mower in 24" of working space to screw with blades.



They show 26". OK, I know not a lot more than 24"  but lifted up at that angle I think one could just sit on the ground and take the blades off without going under. And it wouldn't be hard to get a spray nozzle on a hose under it and generally be able to see what you are aiming at. I don't think jack stands would work at all, no stable point to stick them under in the front. Also not so sure about ramps. I THINK the deck would hit the ramp before the front tires got on top and the ramps would be in the way of getting under the deck even if you got the tires on top. Plus, you would only get about 12" of height, not useful for getting under the deck.

As for removing the deck, mine has front and rear anti-sway (I guess) bars plus 4 pins. Dragging it out sideways is an effort and getting it stable in a vertical position isn't all that easy. If I want to use a hose on it, I have to do this outside, which makes getting the deck out and back under all the more difficult. I don't think there is anything I'd want to stress in that old barn lifting the front of the tractor! So I'm still thinking about a lift. Or if I had a handy tree; I could use the winch on the front of the GT to pull the front end up  but I don't have such a tree. Maybe my gorilla ladder ???  I started lifting the front of the tractor when I put a pipe across the 2nd from the top steps and lifted my new (at the time) drum sander up onto the stand. It weighs north of 300 pound so I guess the front of the tractor weighs less.

Only cleaning out once a year? I don't mow when the grass is wet and it still glues itself under the deck. Not quite as bad with the side chute as with the mulching kit on but still inches of grass every time I mow filling everything that isn't touched by the blades.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

greybeard said:


> Others, it causes problems with engine and drive train fluids moving where it shouldn't.


Uh-oh.... I'm female - I don't know nothing about drive train thingys and moving fluids, lol.  I just knew I got some wire wrapped around the blade and I wanted to get it off before I had to tell DH I broke the mower, lol!


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## Latestarter




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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I don't mow when the grass is wet and it still glues itself under the deck. Not quite as bad with the side chute as with the mulching kit on but still inches of grass every time I mow filling everything that isn't touched by the blades.


Yep. About 80% of green grass' weight is from water.  

What brand mower & size deck do you have?


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> The mower has that hose attachment wash out feature, which I'll never use as I expected it was nothing more than a sales gimmick. Without direct water pressure on the matter being removed, and done immediately after use before it has a chance to dry, it's just going to get wet and set like concrete. I've never much worried about it anyway... I clean it out once a year at the end of the mowing season.


The guy that fixes your deck/blade problem is gonna love you for that. Don't let your warranty lapse. We charged $100 if we had to wash all that crud out to fix the problem. 

I don't remember which model you have, but there were tech advisories from both Kubota and Cub Cadet telling customers to not use the deck wash connections. Led to early deck rusting and just weren't working anyway.


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Yep. About 80% of green grass' weight is from water.
> 
> What brand mower & size deck do you have?


Craftsman (made by Husqvarna) 24 HP, 54" deck


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## Mike CHS

We got an ATV lift from Harbor Freight.  It was on sale so came in around $70 or so.  I haven't used it for the mower deck yet though.


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## goatgurl

waiting on dippin' dot


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## Latestarter

Me too... No change... No indication...


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## HomeOnTheRange




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## Latestarter

Got up to go get a snack and drink. Looked out the window and Dot was laying down on her side and one of the kids was sniffing at her rear...  So I immediately grabbed for the camera, got some goat snacks (animal cracker/cookies and a bowl of sweetened puffed wheat cereal) and went  down to the pen. Of course Dot and all the others came running to the fence to see what grampa goat (moi) had brought them... Still no real swelling, no discharge, still eating... Not ready to give em' up yet.

I had no idea goats would fight over puffed wheat cereal. It was a BIG hit! They gobbled it right up. Kinda strange to see a bunch of goats trying to push over a cattle panel fence to get within reach of a bowl of cereal. You'd think I was starving them or something... My hands were completely salivated on and needed to be washed when I got back in the house.


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## goatgurl




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## Latestarter

OK, so tomorrow (today now) is supposed to be a good day. I have to go to the VA for a doc appt. So I'll get up early and shower, get the animals taken care of then hit the road. Since I'm not going to be here, I fully expect to find kids on the ground when I get back later tomorrow (today) afternoon... What are the odds after all? Had planned/hoped to meet up with @Jenn27 on my next LA trip, but haven't seen her on or heard from her (hope she's OK...) I had something to deliver to her from way up in the north country... <sigh>  Oh well, Hopefully she comes back and I can meet her later. Mean time, I'm fasting for labs tomorrow and I'm hungry. No real danger of starvation or anything (plenty of body reserves to draw on ) but hate that gnawing feeling in my gut and all the complain sounds coming from that general direction... (growling and grumbling etc.)

Neighbor's dogs on either side of me have lit off recently while I was jacuzzi soaking and I think it's due to coyotes being close. Heard them singing a ways off earlier and they've had plenty enough time to get close enough to set the dogs off. Thought about taking a few random .22 rifle pot shots off into the woods "just in case" but figured I'd wait and see what develops. Mel is outside, out back... if they were to get within reach of the goat pen I'd HOPE he'd do some barking alerting about it. We'll see. He isn't bonded to the goats at all yet.


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## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> He isn't bonded to the goats at all yet.



I don't think any of my dogs are particularly bonded to my goats, they just bark to protect their area and I think they would do it even if all of the goats were gone. Mia actually stays with the goats when they go out to browse more than the older dogs do which is surprising considering what a hard puppy she was to train.  However I have seen the dogs put the goats in the barn when they sensed danger but I still won't say that they are bonded. I came home tonight to find the goats out and chomping on my blackberries  and Francis and Sigueme about 200' away on my porch, no where near the goats (never trust electro-net fencing when it only has a reading of 2 on the meter). Of course as soon as I got home the dogs took off and were gone for about an hour. They did get out on the main road too and fortunately a neighbor herded them with his car and chased them home. If they had been bonded they never would have left. Mia and Alondra stayed with the goats...good girls.


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## Latestarter

Isn't that something... your senior dogs go "walk about"    and your newest additions stay put and do what they're meant to do... Good girls is right!   trying to imagine you trying to re-corral 40+ mostly wild goats who would prefer to remain eating the tasty moist food rather than nasty old dried out alfalfa hay...


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## babsbag

Oh it was hilarious to watch I'm sure and I threatened the shotgun more than once. My blackberries are not wild either. They are cultivated, pruned, watered, thornless, and tasty. I was NOT happy to say the least. All was good in the end but it was maddening. So much for a quiet evening watching the sun set.


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## CntryBoy777

@babsbag we have some blackberries like that in the garden and when we walk the goats, Joyce stands vuard over them too in order to keep them from eating them and the strawberries. The goats just Love them and would much rather eat those in the garden, than all-they-can-eat off the ditch bank.


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## Latestarter

Back from the doc... no kids yet.   Brought them out some more puffed wheat cereal... OMG... was even worse than yesterday! It's like goatie crack! They were butting each other in the butt to get to the closest hole through the cattle panel. Well... at least now I know a great capture weapon for them. Tried to get some down for the babies, but they never stood a chance! You know the whack a mole game at carnivals? Picture that on it's side and goat heads popping in and out of cattle panel holes...


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like some pretty Cheap entertainment....and ya are their New bestess Bud....


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## Bruce

Sounds like you've found the key to getting your wary goat "up close and personal"  I wonder if alpacas would go for that cereal. What brand? They might be picky


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## Baymule

So you think Dot is about to give birth and you run out there with a camera, animal crackers and a bowl of cereal?  Dot sees you coming with treats, sucks her kid back up in her uterus, gets up and runs to be first for treats!You make one helluva midwife!!  A bowl of cereal!! I am laughing so hard I have tears in my eyes!  Who woulda thunk it? A bowl of puffed wheat cereal!! I like it too BTW, but I like mine with milk.


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## Latestarter

Well, I ran out of frootloops, and didn't want to waste my precious Cap'n crunch   I mean it is a grain after all, just "puffed" and sweetened  It's the large bag of generic from the bagged cereal @ wally world. Malto Meal I think... The Cap'n Crunch isn't generic... just sayin... 

I like them in a bowl with milk too, but I thought trying to give it to the goats with milk on it would make a heck of a mess. And feeding them with a spoon? just not happening!   You ought to give it a try Bruce... You never know! Might be the item that breaks their will and befriends them finally.

So I scoop up a handfull and try to get it under their mouths so they don't try to rip off my fingers snarfing it down. They move the fence a good 2 feet pushing on it to get to the cereal. They get those gums to flapping open and shut pretty danged fast! It's funny when they want to eat the cereal but also want to butt heads with the head that's through the next hole over to try and keep it from reaching the cereal first. It's a challenge to try and get it positioned so only one can get it and alternate between them. You should try it with your sheep Bay... it's positively comical. Maybe tomorrow I'll sacrifice some of my Cap'n Crunch and see how they like that... corn/oats and caramel... Hmmm 

So no new kids yet. Supposed to get more rain tomorrow into the overnight... 70% chance. Maybe tomorrow she'll let them out. I sat out in the pen for a while this evening while they ate their grain. CB finally came up and stood so I could scratch behind her head and on her neck.  I've picked her up and held her a few times but she doesn't come up to me looking for that. Once I catch her up she is nice and quiet and not frantic at all. I've held the boy a couple times and the same happens with him but he doesn't come as near me and is much more leery. I don't think he likes being held as much... That's fine.

Was really tired today what with lack of sleep last night then 4 hours of driving and fasting. Didn't feel like cooking so aside from Wendy's for a double stack and one of their new country style breaded chicken sandwiches for lunch, I went out for Chinese buffet tonight. filled the hole... Not as good as the previous visit. Getting older and my tastes are changing I think. Many things I used to really like just don't taste as good anymore.

Gonna really try hard to get some fence posts planted tomorrow before the rain gets here. I have to get back on that before the real summer heat and humidity strikes. No word from the mower repair shop... need to contact them tomorrow as well.


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## Southern by choice

Your gonna need to really start working with the kids or they will not get better and you may end up with skitzy goats and that is not a lamancha... seen far too many kids not handled ( all breeds) and they are in the end a real PIA. 
Have you tried checking ligs on Dot? (she is the one due right?) 
How is her rump angle?

Captain Crunch!  Man that stuff tears all the skin off your mouth... I swear it didn't do that when I was a kid!   Sorry but I still love cereal late at night usually once a month.
Love the puffed cereal. That is a hoot! Mine like Sour cream and onion potato chips, doritoes, cheeze its and most of all cheese puffs!   This is rare not an everday occurrence.

I hope this helps the girls warm up to you.


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## Latestarter

Best laid plans... So yeah, no fence post planting today. It's already raining and forecast to be off and on heavy w/threat of all the bad stuff that goes along with it. Way it looks, the really dangerous stuff should stay south and east of me. 

No Dip N' Dot kids yet. I've felt for ligs and I can't find them... Haven't been able to for over a week. I think she's a one of a kind goat who doesn't own any. Rump angle hasn't changed but she's really hollowed out and dropped. Udder is still about 1/2 size of what I'd expect when full. She's really full down vice out to the side, so I don't even know what to expect as far as number of kids. Really hoping she's carrying 2 in there and sure hope if so that at least 1 is a doe. Heard some bleating out there in the shelter a bit ago and looked out and she was standing there shaking her tail... Don't know if it was her bleating. I'll be checking on her regularly going forward.

I do go in the pen with them minimum of twice a day and stay with them while they eat. Most days I also bring them down an afternoon snack as well. Dot comes up to me for light back & side scratches. Bang sometimes comes up for a touch and doesn't really fight when I have her by the collar. She leads OK. April has settled down some but still freaks out if I move unexpectedly or fast or toward her. But If I'm still, she'll come close to me as well. The kids are a  real trip. They're running and jumping/flying all over the place now. CB comes up and nibbles my pants leg and likes to lick my legs if I'm wearing shorts (showing off those old, fat, ugly, hairy legs ) I'll try to spend more time down there with them.

Cap'n crunch and damage to soft mouth tissue... Really! No kidding, right? Gets me most on the roof right behind my front teeth  Wish I could limit it to once a month   At times it's a before bed bowl every night...  I've really made an effort to not buy snack chip type foods as it's a real downfall for me. Love cheese puffs and Doritos etc. But I'm trying to stick with just pretzels... 10am and haven't had breakfast yet... thinking some oatmeal with real maple syrup and brown sugar (& milk of course) might taste good with the weather.

So I got a call from the mower repair and the spindles are all fine and no deck damage but the blades are bent. They are going to replace them @ $21 each and it will be ready for me to pick up tomorrow. Supposed to be windy, but dry tomorrow so I'll go get it and bring it home. depending on how much rain we end up getting today, it's gonna take several days for the overgrown pasture to dry back out again. Even longer due to it being so overgrown. I have GOT to get some animals on all this green or I'll be spending all my time mowing it to keep it from reverting back to jungle.


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## goatgurl

now @Latestarter I never said a word about ugly or fat, just big, old and hairy.  they are bigger, at least longer than mine, they aren't as old as mine but they are hairier than mine.  i'm tellin' ya to go sit in the pen and make the greedy things let you touch them and scratch them before or during the treat session.  and handle those babies every day so they will come to you looking for scratches and treats. 
  still anxiously waiting on dippin' dot.


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## Latestarter

Nope... not yet... Still in the oven. Did break into that giant bag of Cap'n Crunch and as I expected, they were quite fond of it. Not quite as eager as for the puffed wheat, but almost to the crack level. This time I threw some small handfuls down on the ground and spread around so the kids could get some too.   When I have treats, the adults are so demanding the kids can't get anywhere near. What I need to do and hope to do again tomorrow is get the adults staked out and then I can get in the pen with the kids and give them snacks just for them. Gotta get the mower and need to get back on fence posts too.


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh LS, ya are sounding more and more like a Farmer with each passing day....and ya seem to be Enjoying it right Nicely, too....
If I lived a bit closer, I'd come and help ya with the fence...after I get mine done. I'd at least give ya a hand a day or two anyways....


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## babsbag

I really dislike fencing....and installing gates.


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> I really dislike fencing....and installing gates.


One of my favorite and most personally rewarding pastimes.


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## babsbag

I was told that the hinge pins on a gate should be installed with one facing down and one up so the gate cannot easily be removed from the hinges. OK, not a horrid job with a pipe gate that has one moveable hinge; it is an entirely different story with a gate that has hinges that have to attach in one spot only. What a pain, especially when it is 98°.  

Then I have to attach stock panel to the gate so my LGD doesn't think that the gate is an entrance into another pasture.


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## Latestarter

Today should be the day for Dot. Ligs are definitely gone, udder is full and tight, vulva showing some swelling but no drainage yet. She was laying inside the shelter while all the others were out begging for breakfast. I went in and she did get up and move and finally came out for a nibble, but not really interested in food at all. She isn't acting her normal self at all. She has much larger teats than Bang. Wonder about the orifices.


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## CntryBoy777




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## Latestarter

OK, so Dot is a FF and I thought she was a 2nd... good enough! One doeling on the ground,  chocolate with a cream splash on her right rear flank. Hasn't had her first nurse yet because I think Dot is contemplating spitting out another one. Kinda like Christmas morning with wrapped presents 





The kid was born inside the shelter and it's pretty windy here today after the front passed through. She was wet and shivering so I picked her up and helped dry her with towels then moved her out into the sun to help her warm up and dry off more. Mom did a great job and continues to do so!





Here's the baby lying just outside the shelter. Right after this Dot started pawing and trying to lay down so I picked up the baby and held it for a long time. It slept for a little bit  She's so cute!   Held the other 2 babies for a bit too while Dot lavished attention on the new girl. Love me some goats!





Here's a pic of Dot's udder from the back. I can't get a front or side shot as she's still contemplating giving me more kids...

ETA: I've covered the kid's umbilical with iodine multiple times (then wiped most off with the towels, or mom licked it off )


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## CntryBoy777

Congratulations!!...
She is a real Cutie!....hope the other or others go well too.


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## samssimonsays

Congrats!


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## Mike CHS

You have to be smiling right about now. Congratulations!!!


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!


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## Goat Whisperer

Everything okay? Have me a bit worried with no update!

Congratulations on your first kid! And doeling too, that is just great. Love the chocolate color!


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## Latestarter

Thanks all. Well, sorry, I had to make a trip to pick up the mower. There were no more, just the one. She's now up and moving around, following mom. I have yet to see her nurse, but when I got back from picking up the mower I went out to check on all and feed them. I picked the baby up and it had what  looked like milk droplets on the sides of her mouth, so I have to assume she's had milk. Before I left I expressed colostrum from mom on both teats to make sure no plugs... I tried to get the baby to latch on to mom, but she's NOT cooperating at all.

Kinda funny, but while I'm standing there next to Dot and the baby, CB comes wandering over to nibble my pants and get some head scratches and Dot tried to ram her away from me.   I guess since I had her birthing fluids all over me she now considers me one of her kids to protect  I trapped her against the fence and tried to get the baby to latch on to a teat, but no luck. Guess I'll just have to watch and see... I tried to get the kid on her before I left too with no luck. Initially it was because the kid was just born and too weak I think... couldn't even stand up yet.


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## Southern by choice

You have 6 hours  (which is best) but no more than 12... that 24 hour crap is hogwash.... to get the colostrum in the kid...10% of the bodyweight of the kid .
A 7lb kid must have 11.2 oz. Do not wait around, you must make sure she is eating. If her suck is not strong enough you need to determine this and remedy the situation.

We are all here for you... this has been your dream.... 
If the kid is weak and not hopping around treatment is necessary.

I am so happy for you and want it all to go well for you! Beautiful kid! Congratulations! 
@goatgurl  really blessed you and @Devonviolet  with some awesome animals!


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## OneFineAcre

If she is up and following mom, I'm pretty sure she is nursing.


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## Mini Horses

Congrats.   Wow 2 doelings out of three kids!!!   Nice.

Soon you will be milking goats!    

So, are cattle the option for all the pasture?    Of course, you DO have goats to help.    Then, there's the fencing.........Ain't farming fun????


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## Mike CHS

I'm curious - do kids give any indication that they are getting milk if you see them try to nurse.  With lambs their tail won't move till they start getting milk then it looks like a cute little propeller.


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## Mini Horses

Yep, tails start flipping on goats.


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## goatgurl

congratulations grandpa.  I can't believe that big tub of a goat only had one kid.  as big as her belly was when she left here I was sure she'd have twins.  I agree with @OneFineAcre, she has probably eaten.  best way to see if baby girl has nursed is to put your hand under her and feel her belly.  if it feels flat she hasn't eaten if its rounded then she has eaten.  so whats her name?


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## Baymule

goatgurl said:


> So whats her name?



Cap'n Crunch


----------



## goatgurl




----------



## Southern by choice




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## Devonviolet

Congratulations on your cute little doeling!  She looks a lot like my twins!  Gee . . . I wonder how that can be ???  

@goatgurl asked what her name is?  





Baymule said:


> Cap'n Crunch


  

That is just too funny!!!

Angelica was up, almost immediately, latching on to Ruby.  But, my little Linden was so weak he could hardly stand up, even with help.  I tried to help him lath on, and he didn't even try. So, I milked out some of Ruby's colostrum and fed it to him in a bottle.  It took a while, for him to figure it out, but once he did, he got at least an ounce. I held him for a while & when I put him down, he seemed to have more strength. Shortly after that I was able to help him to his feet under mom & he latched on and got a nice drink.    From then on, he had more strength and was able to get up to nurse on his own.    Of course now, you would never know he was too weak to nurse, when he was born.  He's a strapping little boy, jumping and bouncing all over the,place.


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## Latestarter

That's as good a name as any other. So Cap'n Crunch it will be, C-Crunch for short I guess or maybe CC. 

I'm completely confuzzeled with this little girl...  She tries to nurse everywhere but on the teat when I'm out there trying to get her to latch on. Bumping mom everywhere but her udder. Then when I'm looking from the window I see her where she's supposed to be and tail wagging. She was with mom when I went to bed last night in the shelter. When I checked at 6 this morning, she was laying in the shelter all alone and mom was crashed out by the water trough. All the other goats slept out as well. When I went down to check, the baby was crying and when I picked her up she "felt" cold on her extremities, but then she was laying on the ground. I held her for a while to warm her a bit.

Mom followed me into the shelter so once again I held mom and tried to get the baby latched on. Dot's udder was full to the brim... when I stripped some out to make sure they weren't plugged, the teats just went to streaming... I held the baby's head up to the stream and teat & she drank but wouldn't latch on. Dot has very fat teats while Bang has very thin ones. Dot is licking the baby and her butt, which should stimulate eating. I've watched her arch her back to present her teats to C-Crunch, but again, no clear indication she's latching on. I do see tail wags, and the head appears to be in the right place. But if she's drinking, then why was Dot's udder filled to leaking?

Her mouth wasn't cold this morning, but wasn't warm either. Right now she's out in the main area in the sun and mom is with her. I know she got some colostrum yesterday when I was "force feeding" her from mom's teat, but nowhere near 10% of her body weight while I was trying. I'm wondering now if these issues are because I held the kid and wiped her all down while mom was passing the placenta... Maybe I held her too long? I mean mom recognizes her and butts the others away if they get too close, and licks her and all, so 

The goats and eventual sheep will be in the back pasture with cross fencing and rotation. The steers will be in the front pasture. I'll put the sheep up with the cows some to eat what the cows won't. Debating on cows in the back pastures.


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## CntryBoy777

Hopefully little CC will get it all figured out and things will work out for ya there. No need for extra Excitement with all the plans ya got in the works.


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## samssimonsays

She could be that big of a producer?. Olive got SO full even with Ralphie on her 24/7 (and I do mean that... he eats ALL the time) but I still had to milk her out and she would get so tight it would be difficult. You "should" be able to milk her out at the very least half way to help keep her production up and help relieve some of that fullness. Just what worked with my girl. I know many milk them out but I didn't have the heart to when Ralphie needs it more than I do  

Anywho, Olive has since regulated (or Ralphie just started eating tons more, not sure which) and all is well now. But if you recall my issues last year with Scarlet and trying to regain her production after 6 weeks of nursing a single kid.... you may want to consider milking her anyways so she produces for more than a single kid and it doesn't affect her production later on when you do want the milk or   may be in your future, not just because she's a goat but because of production  *disclaimer- I am no expert but I have found it works best for me and my girls*


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## ragdollcatlady

Quick note before I gotta leave for work...
I would milk her out all the way, freeze the colostrum in 2 oz or so amounts in case you ever need it. Don't worry about her being 'empty' as soon as  you finish, she will make more in short time for the kid. You could also put a few ounces in the bottle and feed the kid that just for your own comfort. If she stays with mom and keeps trying to nurse, even with offering a bottle a few times a day, she may stop accepting the bottles once she gets enough from mom.

Your doe will most likely need milking for at least a week just to keep her comfortable. With only one kid, you may want to just milk her 2 times a day after that anyway. As long as the kid eats in between, and it sounds like she is, she is moving around on her own, appears to eat when you watch from the window (can you feel the full belly when you pick her up?), she will be fine. I am currently running moms n babies together and milking 2 times a day. Just a couple squirts to a couple cups from those with kids, but they are getting into the routine for when kids wean or go home. Good habit to get them into.


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## Bruce

We all know *I* don't know squat about goats so this is more of a question than a suggestion:
If she is really full are the teats larger and firmer than if she is only half full? Would milking her out a fair bit make it easier for CC to latch on?


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## Latestarter

Before all of this, I spoke with SBC and GW was in the background... I went to TSC looking for B complex injectable and they didn't have any (my TSC isn't really the best). I also looked for Jump Start and of course, as you probably guessed, they didn't have that either. Tried to find Fight Bac and wonder of wonders... nope... didn't have that either. So I got some goat Nutridrench and gave her a couple shots of that, most of which ran down all over my arms. Picked up the syringes, needles, CD&T serum (for the other 2 kids) and a few other odds and ends and headed home. They both said I needed to milk out Dot's udder at least 1/2 way as her production is much higher than her capacity (agreed) causing the teats to leak, which leaves them open to bacteria entering, with the potential for mastitis...

OK, no milk stand and Dot is relatively "passive" so I tied her to the fence and commenced to milking. Got one side flowing OK, but the other side is a real bear. I'm right handed and of course it helps immensely that that's the hand with the arthritis. It's sore. And of course the difficult nipple is on the opposite side  I got out a couple ounces total from both and she promptly stuck her hoof in the bucket and tipped it over...   So we fought a bit, I rinsed out the bucket and we started again. This time she allowed me to milk the "easy" side, but still doesn't want me messing with the other side. Got another ounce or three before she started getting jumpy again. Figured better to quit while I had something so went in and emptied the bottle of coke I bought down the drain, rinsed it out, strained the milk through a coffee filter (all I have) into the coke bottle, put on the Pritchard nipple, trimmed the tip and headed back out. The first 1/2 the kid sucked, she didn't swallow (  STUPID GOAT BABY!) It ran out of her mouth all over me. When she FINALLY figured it out, she drank the rest that was left (not nearly enough). I then took her to mom and FINALLY... for SURE... got her latched onto the "good" nipple and mom stood still for somewhere between 30 seconds & a minute while CC drank/sucked. I could see milk running out the side of her mouth so I KNOW (think) she got milk  I just don't know how much  Her belly isn't completely flat anymore, but she's not "full" either. She's awful thin 

She's still pretty weak, much more than makes me comfortable... she can stand up and walk, but prefers to lay down. Her front hooves have also become weak and are starting to turn under at the ankle. At least they're folding in the right direction. Mom keeps trying to clean her and get her up. Looks like I'll be milking and supplement feeding for a while until CC gets a firm grip on survival. I'm figuring every couple of hours to start. Next round I'm going to concentrate on the b*tch teat 

Funny thing I noticed when bottle feeding her... When I blocked her face so she couldn't see the bottle/nipple, she drank better. What's up with that? Maybe I should blindfold her when she's trying to nurse off Dot?

Hey Bruce, it will help a little, the problem is the "typical" teat is shaped like this (Pritchard nipple - but facing down obviously):




Dot's teats are much, much "fatter" than that as you can see here (cut & paste so you don't need to scroll back):




A good three to 4 times the size of the Pritchard nipple. The kid's mouth is so tiny and narrow, that it's tough to fit that huge nipple inside. It's no good to just suck on the tip... she has to get some purchase on it in order to pull the milk down through. I finally got her to take a major portion of it (the teat) while sucking. I am "assuming" that she got milk when she did. Gotta keep trying.


----------



## animalmom

Sounds like you have a reasonable handle on your situation... observer, continue to milk Dot and work on the harder teat.  Nothing like jumping in the deep end, but you will do fine and CC will thrive.  I have confidence in you.

Hang in there new babies do everything they can to drive you crazy.  Never, ever admit that to the doe.  Just wait until you find the kid asleep with her head turned back over her back and you think she'd dead.  Nope.  I swear kids do that deliberately.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all! Seems I rarely get the stuff I want dished up on a silver platter... It's always just trying to keep putting one foot ahead of the other and moving fwd.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Getting things started, set-up, and running is difficult without all the excitement, but it just increases the "Stress" level a bit more. Just stay focused on what's at hand, for the moment and all the other will fall into place. She'll come along, but it just requires your attention for a short bit. The gaining of experience isn't always easy, but rewarding all the same.


----------



## Hens and Roos

you can always weigh the little one every couple days to start and make sure she is gaining weight.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Covering her face will feel more like she is 'under' mom. When trying to train new babies, I actually do the opposite because it is easier for me. I cup the bottle in my hand so they feel my hand under their face (index finger and thumb holding the cap of the bottle, other fingers below the jaw/around the face, baby facing away from me) and they suck harder than when I offer the bottle alone or from other angles..... maybe I can get a pic tonight if I have help.


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## Latestarter

Well, day two is about behind us here. I fed CC 3 times today, the latest just about 1/2 an hour ago and she took ~8-9oz and was full.   I think, like it or not, I'm going to have a bottle baby. She doesn't seem to have a clue with mom, but this time latched onto the Pritchard nipple with no qualms whatsoever, and was very hungry. 

Thanks to @Devonviolet for her most gracious offer to bring her milk stand over and give me lessons   I didn't take her up on it for a variety of reasons, mostly because having a milk stand for one milking, though nice for that one, won't help me (or the goats) long term. I'll start building one tomorrow.  On our third milking together as beginners both, things have smoothed out considerably. I still clip Dot to the fence with her head up, and I have to hold the pan... I can't set it on the ground as she still lifts her leg quite often... So I can't milk two handed (yet). I'll get there. This last time she stood and chewed her cud while I milked and then stood with her face in my close to my lap with CC while I bottle fed her.

Thanks again to @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer & @goatgurl for your help, words of wisdom, and just general support  It's a really great group of folks here!


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## Southern by choice

This makes me so very happy to hear that all is going a bit smoother now. 
Awwww.... you will love a bottle baby. There really is a special bond that takes place and we have noticed that the dams also become so close to you that it is really special. They tend to see the milker as their "kid" and will snuggle and call to you like you really are their kid.
This will be great for you as you will be able to start using the milk in about 10 days.... Chevre is such an easy cheese to make and you can do anything with it so YUM! You will be reaping the rewards! 

I am with you! Love the people on this forum! There is a genuine care for one another and wanting good things for each other. Very blessed to have all the folks here as part of my "family".
BTW love the name- we had a goat named Ci Ci... she is at my friends now and she is a sweetheart. Maybe CC is the name to give when you sweetie pies!


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## Baymule

I was thinking Crunchy....... Joe you are a good goatie grandpa! I know little Crunchy will get the hang of things, whether it is her mom or the bottle.


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## samssimonsays

Southern, our new girl Cece is also a sweetie lol. It must be the name! 

I am glad all is settling down. You will still have hiccups as you go with milking but they don't happen as often lol. And there is nothing quite like the bond you get with your first milk goat in my experience. Scarlet is special to me in the sense we learned the adventure together. And lord knows we had a rough go of it off and on last year.


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## OneFineAcre

ragdollcatlady said:


> Quick note before I gotta leave for work...
> I would milk her out all the way, freeze the colostrum in 2 oz or so amounts in case you ever need it. Don't worry about her being 'empty' as soon as  you finish, she will make more in short time for the kid. You could also put a few ounces in the bottle and feed the kid that just for your own comfort. If she stays with mom and keeps trying to nurse, even with offering a bottle a few times a day, she may stop accepting the bottles once she gets enough from mom.
> 
> Your doe will most likely need milking for at least a week just to keep her comfortable. With only one kid, you may want to just milk her 2 times a day after that anyway. As long as the kid eats in between, and it sounds like she is, she is moving around on her own, appears to eat when you watch from the window (can you feel the full belly when you pick her up?), she will be fine. I am currently running moms n babies together and milking 2 times a day. Just a couple squirts to a couple cups from those with kids, but they are getting into the routine for when kids wean or go home. Good habit to get them into.


X2


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## Latestarter

Man this farmer stuff doesn't go well with "sleeping in".  

Dot's had udder relief, went much smoother this time. I do believe she's beginning to realize that she feels much better after the pressure has been relieved. Crunchy took her 8-9 oz and was done. Tried to get her to latch to mom first, she "sorta sucked"... like all around it but wouldn't latch on. Soon as the nipple was within reach, there was no holding her back, she went right after it. Nice little round tummy and off walking around starting to explore. Nice yellow poop (odd thing to be happy about first thing in the morning) Mom is being attentive. I'm just starting my morning mug of tea. Oh, and I'm tired


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## Hens and Roos

Welcome to the adventure


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## Bruce

Some things are harder than one might think before they get "the job" 

Guess you'll have to start going to bed earlier Joe! "Real" farmers go to bed with the sun and get up with it 

Another stupid question. Do they (and I ASSUME they do) make larger nipples than the Pritchard you are using? My train of thought here is maybe you could work CC up in size until Dot's teats don't seem so impossible for her to use.


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## TAH

Sorry, for not keeping up on things! 

Congrats on you second batch of kids!!!! 

Glad you got things sorted out and that they are all well! 

And I love the name CC! 

I may have not of reading all of your really long posts bc my eyes are going really bad and I am still in the procsess of finding a good eye dr!


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## CntryBoy777

It won't be too long and those eyes will get heavy between 9-10pm. There's too much to get done to "Burn Daylight" unless ya like stretching fence by Moonlight when those skeeters come out to play....not to mention those pesky snakes are more active too.....
Being a farmer is a "Lifestyle" change....not a "Frame of Mind"....


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## Southern by choice

Bruce said:


> Some things are harder than one might think before they get "the job"
> 
> Guess you'll have to start going to bed earlier Joe! "Real" farmers go to bed with the sun and get up with it
> 
> Another stupid question. Do they (and I ASSUME they do) make larger nipples than the Pritchard you are using? My train of thought here is maybe you could work CC up in size until Dot's teats don't seem so impossible for her to use.



The pritchard is easy to suck especially for those having difficulty because it has a valve in it. As she grows LS will probably move to a clear silicone larger nipple.


----------



## Southern by choice

Bruce said:


> Guess you'll have to start going to bed earlier Joe! "Real" farmers go to bed with the sun and get up with it



  I know of no one that goes to bed when the sun goes down. It is round the clock. lol


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## Latestarter

So this morning milking was the easiest yet. As is the norm, she was full and tight. Only one side seemed to have an over-pressure and leak when touched. This morning I milked her more than I have yet. When I was done, the teats would fill but were loose and pliable, no pressure at all, and her bag wasn't tight anymore. Took just less than a quart and I'm sure I only took 1/2 of what was there. 

I seems she has one teat that forms a "hard" plug at the tip. When I first start milking it she is uncomfortable about it and the stream is very thin. After I strip a few ounces though, it loosens and disappears and the stream becomes fine and she doesn't seem to be bothered anymore. Crunchy took about 1/2 of a full 20 oz coke bottle for breakfast, and I was able to re-fill the bottle almost full with the remaining milk. So her lunch time feeding is ready, just needs warming up. 

I went out last night ~9:30 just to offer her a "top off" and it was funny, she was bouncing around and trying to run and jump. So cute!


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## animalmom

Me thinks @Latestarter is a smitten man.  CC has worked her charm on him.  He is under her spell!  Brava CC!!!


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## dejavoodoo114

Since CC doesn't seem to be milking off mom, I would do your best to get all the milk you can from her. As CC grows she will want more and more. You don't want to reduce the milk you will be getting and risk the chance of having to buy milk replacer. Trust me, not fun!


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## Southern by choice

dejavoodoo114 said:


> Since CC doesn't seem to be milking off mom, I would do your best to get all the milk you can from her. As CC grows she will want more and more. You don't want to reduce the milk you will be getting and risk the chance of having to buy milk replacer. Trust me, not fun!


You can increase volume but if he reduces her a bit now then for her health  overall it is better. We had to do this on a doe.
When the doe is producing so much but her udder does not have the capacity then that milk leaks because it simply cannot contain it. That opens the goat up to very high risk mastitis. E-coli etc
If he can milk her halfway out for a few days so she slows the production down a bit then he can start milking her "normal" like 2x a day without her leaking.


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## dejavoodoo114

Ah, yes. I had forgotten that part. And she is a FF as well right? Definitely don't want mastitis...


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## Baymule

Ain't all this fun? Yellow poop on a new lamb makes me happy too, so don't feel like the only weirdo out there checking on baby butts.  Yeah, hate to tell ya' but get up and get moving in the AM, you have goats waiting on you!!


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## Latestarter

I think my back and the rest of me is starting to develop muscle memory for crouching to milk. It's kinda weird and unexpected but it seems to be helping the arthritis in my right hand as well. Also starting to develop ambidextrous milking capability. Rarely squirt it all over me or miss the bucket anymore. Still have to be a little cautious and I get really careful if I set the bucket down... Afraid she'll kick it or lift and put her hoof down in it. I still don't have that perfect stripping motion yet and it seems I can only really use my thumb and 1 finger, sometime 2. I only milked her twice today and her evening milking she wasn't completely tight like she has been so I think the three days of partial milking 3-4 times a day helped back her production up a bit.  I think I'll continue with the twice a day routine right through now, but increase my "take" each day till I'm milking her out, I expect by the end of this week. Right now I'm getting more than the baby is eating with just partial milk outs... I'm figuring it's still colostrum as it's still yellowish tinged so I'm not ready to drink it yet... Maybe by this next weekend? 

OK so CB and CM got their first CD&T shot at dinner time (right at 5 weeks). They were NOT pleased with me. Serves them right for coming up and nibbling my pants leg while I'm trying to feed CC. Chocolate Moose (CM) is turning into a moose! He has to weigh 1/2 again what CB (Cream Brulee) weighs. He's a good inch+ taller and longer than she is as well.

So Mel got his first introduction to the goat pen.  He did really really well. I took in cereal & animal crackers to attract the goats and Mel was right with me as I sat in a camp chair and fed all of them, standing side by side in front of me.   Mel likes animal crackers too  No butting from the adult goats. No real nervousness, just the expected caution. Mel really liked the new baby CC, and went right to licking her to clean her. He also found lots of little edibles laying around that he just had to sample.   He didn't get overpowering or running around. So I expect he'll become a daily visitor, probably around feeding times then for longer periods. 

Man is it getting warm here at mid day. Not much breeze today and I went in the shelter at 1 o'clock or so and it was like an oven in there! There is shade in the pen early and late in the day, but not much at midday. Gotta get the fencing finished so I can let them loose so they can find lots of cooler shady places during the heat of the day.


----------



## Mike CHS

It sounds like you are finding out what we did after being here for awhile.  Things that used to be hard are now more routine and extra effort doesn't always hurt tomorrow.


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## CntryBoy777

So glad things seem to be settling down into a routine and Mel presented himself in a mannerly fashion. It won't be long until the time tending to the goats will be your "Catch my Breath" and get a drink break, too...then back to work before it really does get Hot and Humid. That's one reason I am pushing so hard myself....along with company coming. I can't take it for too long anymore, so with the mid 80s here now, those 90s are just around the corner.


----------



## Mike CHS

Those temperatures are one of the main reasons we looked for a place where we did.  We get some really heavy temps but not like you guys do.  Nothing like it was in Charleston.  It was almost always about 8-10 degrees cooler here than there and almost always some wind.


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## Baymule

Yeah, just to let you know-anything you want done soon-do it NOW. Last summer we hacked out an acre of green briars, we started early and stopped from 11 AM to 1 PM. We took showers, and passed out. The heat is on! That's another reason the garden grows up in weeds-in 100+ degree weather I have a hard time caring about weeds.


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## misfitmorgan

I totally missed that you got your goats @Latestarter ......there better be pictures in this thread....i'm going back to look now


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## misfitmorgan

I see you didnt let me down on pics 

Congrats on your new goats and i won't mention the other portion of the events. Hopefully you love your goats!!


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Chocolate Moose (CM) is turning into a moose!


Perhaps you should have named him Chocolate Mousse! But, since he is turning into a moose, I guess you had a feeling 

How is that milking stand coming? I can't imagine how bad my back would be if I was getting low enough to milk a goat! Probably wouldn't be able to stand up for a week.


ETA:
I forgot to add, apparently all of our heat went south to you folks in TX. Of course it was unusually warm last week. Back to our regular temps - lows in the 30s, highs in the 40s and 50s. Brought two dump cart loads of wood from the little barn to the porch yesterday. DD1 is going to need it while DW and I are in WI for DD2's graduation.


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> ETA:
> I forgot to add, apparently all of our heat went south to you folks in TX. Of course it was unusually warm last week. Back to our regular temps - lows in the 30s, highs in the 40s and 50s.



That's ok, I'll take it. We've had unseasonal cold to cool weather this spring and my okra is sulking and staying 3" tall.  I tried talking to it, but I think I just made the plants mad.


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## Mike CHS

I just started a dozen okra seeds in paper towels last Thursday and potted them up yesterday.  They are already popping up.


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## Baymule

Oh the okra came right up, but we had nights in the 40's and okra likes heat! It has to grow and produce so we can invite LS over for some fried okra! He needs to sample the delights of fine Southern dining! 

and that does not mean a bowl of cereal........


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## Bruce

But LS LIKES cereal!


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Oh the okra came right up, but we had nights in the 40's and okra likes heat! It has to grow and produce so we can invite LS over for some fried okra! He needs to sample the delights of fine Southern dining!
> 
> and that does not mean a bowl of cereal........


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## Latestarter

Next time I say I had a bowl of Cap'n Crunch, y'all are gonna be giving me grief asking if I ate my baby goatie girl...


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## Bruce

Ah, but won't it be fun in a year or so when you are milking her to say that you had Cap'n Crunch on your Cap'n Crunch??

I gotta say, my taste for such super sweet cereals waned years ago.


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## Latestarter

OK... got milk? yup! This morning I milked Dot out almost completely... Like maybe 85-90%.




 

I'm sure I could have squeezed out a little more but she was indicating that she had had enough and it was time for breakfast. (I grain them all after milking) I'm pretty sure I could have filled the pint jar if I'd wanted to. So that means she's doing (or can do) just about 3 quarts a day. Her teats and orifices are really good. Her udder is soft like a leather glove. She now just stands there chewing cud while I milk. What a good doe!

I haven't had any myself yet as I haven't really collected enough extra above what Crunchy is drinking. Hope fully I can sample some of this take. She now drinks about 16-18oz each feeding. She drank 3 times yesterday but only took about 10-12 oz at lunch. She's up and moving/exploring about 50% of the time. The rest she's sleeping and trying to hide from Dot who constantly paws at her to get her up and moving. Dot has been a really good mom so far. Went to take more pics but the camera disk was full. I've now emptied it and will try again a little later.


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## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> I gotta say, my taste for such super sweet cereals waned years ago.


I'm with you Bruce!  Sweet cereals just don't appeal to me.   In fact, even syrup on pancakes doesn't appeal - especially knowing how hungry & awful I will feel about an hour later.  Beside, I'd much rather have salty than sweet any day!

I happen to know that LS has a penchant for _both_ salty & sweet!  



Bruce said:


> Ah, but won't it be fun in a year or so when you are milking her to say that you had Cap'n Crunch on your Cap'n Crunch??


----------



## Baymule

Way to go LS!! I know you can't wait to start drinking that milk yourself. That was the plan wasn't it? Sounds to me that you are becoming a real FARMER!


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## Baymule

15 posts??? 
going to delete the darn things....


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Way to go LS!! I know you can't wait to start drinking that milk yourself. That was the plan wasn't it? Sounds to me that you are becoming a real FARMER!


Yes, way to go, LS!!!    That's awesome!!!    Sorry, I got distracted by Bruce's comment about Captain Crunch cereal.  

Actually waiting, to drink your girl's milk, may not be such bad thing.  From what I understand, the first month, or so of milk, still has colostrum in it, and that can give it a bit of an off taste.  I kept spooning a tablespoon into a cup, and tasting it, until it tasted sweet and creamy.  For my two girls it was about 3-1/2 or 4 weeks.


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like ya just gonna have to get a phone...if for nothing but a camera-in-the-pocket....


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## Mike CHS

My cell phone is old fashioned and doesn't even take pictures.


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## Baymule

Get an I-Phone, they're nice!


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## Mike CHS

Teresa has a smart phone.  When I worked I worked in a classified space and we weren't allowed to have anything wireless in there so the basic phone is all I needed.  Now I'm getting to where I don't need a phone of any kind. 

@Latestarter   Congratulations on the increase in yield.


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## CntryBoy777

Well LS did ya get yourself a Taste of that milk?....or did Capt' Crunch absorb it all?....


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Get an I-Phone, they're nice!


Yes, very nice! But also very expensive!!!     I would love to have an iPhone, but just can't afford the model that fits my needs (iPhone7).   We have too many other demands on our available funds.  So, I don't see an iPhone in my foreseeable future.


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## CntryBoy777

Shoot....this $100 HTC 626s is just fine for me....and the service thru cricket works for the ole pocket, too....no contract.


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## Latestarter

OK... I tasted the milk... it's "off" because Dot is still producing colostrum. Not bad... just a little off. So I'll give her another week or so and try again. I mean it has just been a week as of today (hard to believe huh?!) OK, picture time:

Here they are finishing up the froot loops. Crunchy doesn't care for them yet. I hand feed and they fight through the fence. Couldn't get a picture of that obviously. After that I throw some on the ground so the kids can get some and it keeps them all occupied.







 

Bottle feeding CC and CB, who has become my #1 helper, wants to make sure I'm doing it right. Incidentally, I'm not sure but believe CC is polled.  I can't feel/find horn buds. I mean I'll keep checking, but there should be some development by a week old I would think. CC drank about 16-18 oz out of this 20 oz bottle for dinner. You can see Dot licking her bottom as she sucks the bottle. 




Once Bang had finished her grain, it was time to feed her kids. CB & CM suck like fiends for as long as mom will let them, normally about 15-20 seconds. Man, when they wallop her in the udder I feel mom's pain. That has to hurt! I mean they really butt her udder hard! 




Dot is really a pretty good momma. She's always doting on CC.


 

So there ya have it... honest to gosh pictures!


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## Southern by choice

Is one of the parents polled?

Love the pics! I want a chocolate and a blonde lamancha!


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## Latestarter

I don't believe the direct parents are polled, but not sure about up the line. I mean you can see that Dot isn't polled and was burned as a kid.


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## Southern by choice

One of the parents must be polled. You cannot get polled rom horned horned goats. It does not skip generations.
Sometimes does take longer...


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## Latestarter

alrighty then... Guess I'll prepare for burning her later when they do indeed come in.


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## Latestarter

So I left Mel in with the goats for a while today. He did OK. After a bit he went and stood by the gate and stared at me like "OK, you gonna let me out"?  @Southern by choice this shot's for you  Oh, you can also see the white splash on the newest kid CC. She's the one climbing the bricks.



 

Am a little worried about @Baymule as she lives right where there was a tornado warning earlier this evening down around Lindale. When I tuned in to the weather the warning area was already to the direct east of her. I've texted but had no reply. @Devonviolet has also texted and called but no answer and left a voice mail. Hope her and her DH and animals are OK. 

My phone went off with a tornado warning and I live right in the center of the red area outlined. So I rounded up my keys, wallet, light, cell phone, lawn chair, mug of tea, & headed to the tornado shelter. Hadn't cleaned or prepared it at all and it was rife with spiders and webs. Tried to get Mel to go down inside with me but he wasn't having any of that nonsense.   Should have trained him to go in there long before it became necessary.   Anyway, I closed up the door and sat out the hail, heavy rain, and thankfully no tornado. Been an interesting evening to say the least. I have no idea if there really was a tornado near me... Guess I'll find that out tomorrow. There's another weak line of T-storms passing by me right now. Should be the last for the night.


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## Southern by choice

I hope someone hears from Bay!
Glad you were safe. Silly Mel. Next time tell him "trust me" and he should follow. 

I LOVE the pic! How cute is CC! Oh my goodness 

Mel makes the standard lamanchas look small LOL.. I see he is helping himself to goat "raisins"  

Good boy Mel!


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## greybeard

Van Zandt County.
Edgewood and Wills Point saw some very strong windstorms, if not tornadic activity over the early morning hours.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Po...-on-Camera-Near-Edgewood-Texas-422046004.html


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> I don't believe the direct parents are polled, but not sure about up the line. I mean you can see that Dot isn't polled and was burned as a kid.



Whether she looks burned or not you can't use that as a for sure because people often burn polled goats. Polled goats will develop flat topped "lumps" or round topped "lumps" which many people mistake for horn buds. Take a picture of the top of CCs head and we can tell you if she is polled or not likely.

Polled kids have no horn swirls.

Here is a good pic.(Not mine)





That's a buck and he is polled....notice the large lumps still. Not all polled goats have large lumps generally females have smaller lumps.

I hope Bay is ok too!!


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## CntryBoy777

Your herd looks really Good, and love the markings on CC. Have ya heard anything from @Baymule ? I sure hope they are okay....be sure to keep us posted.


----------



## Devonviolet

I spoke with @Baymule this morning, before we went out to feed the animals & milk the goats.

They were out feeding animals, yesterday afternoon, when the storm went over them. They had rain, wind & lots of thunder, but they were all fine.

After all the storms recently, she thinks local cell towers were affected.  She didn't even get LS's & my texts last night, or my calls, to check on her.  In fact our texts didn't go through until we were talking on the phone this morning.  

Then, while we were talking, her phone dropped the call.   I tried calling her back, and the call wouldn't go through.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Thank goodness they are okay....and thanks for the response @Devonviolet . Glad all of ya are doing fine, just busy...


----------



## chickadoodles

Ls you have a bunch of good looking goats.


----------



## Latestarter

Yup, Bay is fine. I heard from them around noon. Didn't hear/find out if there was actually a tornado here or not.  Thanks Chicka   I think I can just barely feel the beginnings of horn buds developing now. They are very, very small. So even if she will need burning, it won't be soon.


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so CC is somewhat of a vagabond. She has learned that she can pass through the cattle panels and likes to explore under the tarp that's covering the hay and grain/feed barrels. Freaks me out when I go out and she's nowhere to be seen and then I hear the tarp rattle and out she runs... She's doing great, as are the other 2 kids. She's running and jumping and becoming quite active. I'm still feeding her 3 times a day and giving her whatever she'll take. She generally drinks right at 16-18oz each feeding. When it gets to the point that she's emptying the bottle (20 oz) I guess I'll have to go buy a bigger coke. Nice being retired and being able to adjust what I'm doing to meet her feeding schedule.

So I said I was going to wait but I couldn't... I tried some Dot milk again.... Oh... My my my... simply delish! So rich and creamy! I'm about a quart ahead of what CC is eating right now so can claim one for my own use   I've filtered it warm and cold and it seems to filter much better warm. Once it cools down there are lots of cream "clots" that seem to plug up the filter pores. Now the only problem is going to be as CC's appetite increases she'll be getting most of it till I wean her... She has started nibbling hay and weeds. But she's only just a bit over a week old, so she'll be drinking milk for quite a while yet.

So CM is now about 6-7 weeks old and getting close to the time of cutting. @Goat Whisperer & @Southern by choice I believe that you cut your wethers at about 8 weeks, right? I wanted to give his urethra time to mature as I plan to keep him as a herd sire companion. I may go the banding route simply because it's just me and it will be hard to hold him and cut him by myself. I should be able to get the band on easy enough by myself. I think I'm going to contact @Devonviolet and see if I can borrow their disbudding iron when it's time to do CC. I can barely feel little horn nubs starting... They're less than 1/2 a pencil eraser in size at this point.


----------



## Southern by choice

We cut between 8-12 weeks depending on animals and "Size"    

We usually wait two weeks to try the milk. Best to strain right after you milk and then refrigerate, as you have figured out.

Bottle babies are so much fun!


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> I think I'm going to contact @Devonviolet and see if I can borrow their disbudding iron when it's time to do CC.


Absolutely.  We will be happy to let you borrow the disbudding iron.  We also have a disbudding box, that DH built, based on plans @goatgurl's DS#1 gave us, when they were here, after Woody was born.  It makes it so much easier, to keep the kid contained, while doing a difficult job.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That "Farm Life" seems to be "Growing" on ya pretty good over there LS. It keeps ya busy, and there's always something to look forward to each day, also. Sure glad things are progressing so well for ya!!....


----------



## luvmypets

Your first kidding! Sorry I missed but congrats on CC  I know how long you've been waiting for this, you must be thrilled


----------



## Baymule

Hi y'all! After all the storm activity and crappy cell phone coverage, we had the grand kids this weekend. We have a 9 year old, 2 year old and 8 month old. That wasn't enough, so the 9 year old brought a friend Friday night. She was picked up Saturday. Hmmm...... what to do? Fortunately the neighbors wanted a night out and gifted us with their 3 year old son Saturday night. They picked him up sometime after midnight. We had a rip roaring time, kids running through the house, building "forts" and "houses" out of boxes, chairs and blankets. Toys were everywhere, chaos and confusion reigned. It was a good weekend. But now I have 62 posts to catch up on.


----------



## Bruce

@Baymule



Devonviolet said:


> In fact, even syrup on pancakes doesn't appeal -


You need REAL maple syrup from real maple trees.



Mike CHS said:


> My cell phone is old fashioned and doesn't even take pictures.


Mine either


Baymule said:


> Get an I-Phone, they're nice!


... And expensive to buy
... And expensive to pay for every month!
As was mentioned.

Sure glad y'all are OK. Not reading every day while travelling. Kinda better that way, worry is resolved minutes after being warned there may be a serious problem


----------



## norseofcourse

Baymule said:
Get an I-Phone, they're nice!


Bruce said:


> ... And expensive to buy
> ... And expensive to pay for every month!
> As was mentioned.


A couple years ago, someone at work gave me their 'old' iPhone 4S when they upgraded.  I used it for pictures, videos, the calendar, notes, clock (watch, stopwatch and timer), calculator and various other things you don't need to pay for service for.  I could even access the internet and other stuff when I was somewhere that had wi-fi.  With a USB cord I could put the pictures on my computer.  Only cost is the electric to keep it charged, which is minimal.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I have a samsung galaxy S3...it is old but it works great and  i use straighttalk so its only $45/month and the phone was given to my second hand by DH who was given it by his Mother. DH has a samsung galaxy luna and i have one as backup as well as a blu phone...if mine ever dies lol.


----------



## greybeard

Things are always inexpensive if they are given as gifts. 
My sister got out of the cow business in early 2012, asked me which one I would keep if they were mine and I pointed a little horned one out. 'Good feet, good legs, and she's going to have a good udder'  & next day, her neighbor drove up to my place with that heifer and a note. My sister gave me that heifer for helping to gather and load her herd out for the sale barn. Been a good performer and raises a heck of a calf every year......Dang, cattle shore are cheap.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> So I left Mel in with the goats for a while today. He did OK. After a bit he went and stood by the gate and stared at me like "OK, you gonna let me out"?  @Southern by choice this shot's for you  Oh, you can also see the white splash on the newest kid CC. She's the one climbing the bricks.
> 
> View attachment 33237
> 
> Am a little worried about @Baymule as she lives right where there was a tornado warning earlier this evening down around Lindale. When I tuned in to the weather the warning area was already to the direct east of her. I've texted but had no reply. @Devonviolet has also texted and called but no answer and left a voice mail. Hope her and her DH and animals are OK.
> 
> My phone went off with a tornado warning and I live right in the center of the red area outlined. So I rounded up my keys, wallet, light, cell phone, lawn chair, mug of tea, & headed to the tornado shelter. Hadn't cleaned or prepared it at all and it was rife with spiders and webs. Tried to get Mel to go down inside with me but he wasn't having any of that nonsense.   Should have trained him to go in there long before it became necessary.   Anyway, I closed up the door and sat out the hail, heavy rain, and thankfully no tornado. Been an interesting evening to say the least. I have no idea if there really was a tornado near me... Guess I'll find that out tomorrow. There's another weak line of T-storms passing by me right now. Should be the last for the night.



Is that an old cast iron bath tub?


----------



## silarajc

Your goats are darling!


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## Latestarter

OneFineAcre said:


> Is that an old cast iron bath tub?


  Yes


----------



## greybeard

I have a couple of those old tubs. Once had a bull, that spent hours shoving one from one end of the pasture to the other and back again.


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## Latestarter

It's not a claw foot or anything worth salvaging. If I could find a few more of them cheap (like read free) I'd bring them home to make water troughs out of them too. I'm sure they'll last as long or longer than the galvanized stock tanks...


----------



## greybeard

I do not like galv stock tanks either. They rust too quickly. I was lucky to get 2 years use out of the Behlen I bought.
The poly water tanks I use have held up for years, and they are easily, permanently  and cheaply repairable should they develop a crack.  
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/rubbermaid-structural-foam-stock-tanks-150-gal-capacity
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rubberma...-100-Gal-Stock-Tank-RCP-4242-88-BLA/204202787


----------



## Latestarter

That was basically what I was looking at as well (rubbermaid). They seem pretty indestructible, sturdy, and won't rust. Still quite a bit more expensive than an old, used, free, steel bath tub though...


----------



## Mike CHS

We hauled off two bath tubs when we renovated - Hindsight again.


----------



## Latestarter

So for those of you who have been following my journey and associated exploits, you may recall that I was issued a "careless driving" ticket for my black ice accident back the end of February. Well, I was advised to contact the clerk of courts and when I first did so in March I was told the ticket had not been registered with them yet, so to call back and ask for a waiver and advisement. I've been calling back ever since and the court date is tomorrow. The last time I called last week, I was told to call today, the day before the court date and I just got off the phone. The ticket still has not showed up in the system. I was informed by the clerk that I would not need to appear in court tomorrow and the case would be dismissed by the judge. Now, I don't know what happened and it might just be that the young trooper who wrote the ticket had second thoughts and never filed it, or he might have screwed up... either way, I didn't deserve that ticket and I'm thankful that I didn't just pay the fine. Sa-weet!


----------



## silarajc

Nice!  Glad things worked out.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I bet his Sargent caught him and straightened out his "Gung-Ho" self....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

YAY!


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> That was basically what I was looking at as well (rubbermaid). They seem pretty indestructible, sturdy, and won't rust. Still quite a bit more expensive than an old, used, free, steel bath tub though...



Just be careful at next kidding.Kids can jump in and drown... sometimes a doe will deliver right in front of it!


----------



## Latestarter

Oh, these won't be for the goats... these will be for the steers up in the front pasture. CB jumped into the tub the day after I brought them home. It wasn't over her head and she jumped right back out (silly goat). Of course she was several weeks old at that point, not a newborn... I'm aware and diligent. Not wanting any drowned kids!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Apparently using the galvanized stock tanks as pools is quite country chic.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> That was basically what I was looking at as well (rubbermaid). They seem pretty indestructible, sturdy, and won't rust. Still quite a bit more expensive than an old, used, free, steel bath tub though...


Lots easier to drain and move than a cast iron tub tho, and you don't have to worry about sealing off the overflow drain hole. I try to figure what anything costs by averaging yearly cost over the life of it. 
A $100 rubbermaid tank will easily last 5 years. $20/year is still more than a free tub but lots easier to move and clean than a cast iron tub.
In my region, that white porcelain grows algae like mad--green or black poly, not nearly as bad.


----------



## greybeard

Remeind 


OneFineAcre said:


> Apparently using the galvanized stock tanks as pools is quite country chic.
> 
> View attachment 34541


Remind me sometime, to tell how I and 4 other grown adults nearly drowned one day, in one of the hottest and driest parts of west Texas, and it wasn't from a lake, flash flood or river.
(beer WAS involved, but only 1 qt each)


----------



## Southern by choice

greybeard said:


> Remeind
> 
> Remind me sometime, to tell how I and 4 other grown adults nearly drowned one day, in one of the hottest and driest parts of west Texas, and it wasn't from a lake, flash flood or river.
> (beer WAS involved, but only 1 qt each)


 this is gonna be good!


----------



## babsbag

I had a doe deliver a kid in a small trough, and I mean small. It is a self waterer type and  holds maybe 3 gallons. She managed to drop that kid right in the trough but Francis saved it. He barked and barked like a crazy dog until I showed up, he licked the face and was pushing it with his nose to keep it above water. He earned his kibble that day.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yay Francis!


----------



## Mike CHS

That is another one of those that needs a video but it would never happen.


----------



## OneFineAcre

OneFineAcre said:


> Apparently using the galvanized stock tanks as pools is quite country chic.
> 
> View attachment 34541
> 
> View attachment 34545


We may get one of these hillbilly hot tubs


----------



## CntryBoy777

Reminds me of "Pettite Coat Jucntion" and the water tower. The only "Hot" bath was someone pouring warm water over your head.....course they were a tad smaller than those are.....


----------



## OneFineAcre

CntryBoy777 said:


> Reminds me of "Pettite Coat Jucntion" and the water tower. The only "Hot" bath was someone pouring warm water over your head.....course they were a tad smaller than those are.....


----------



## Latestarter

Used to watch that and green acres when I was a kid.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I think Green Acres was a "spinoff" of Petticoat Junction


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

OneFineAcre said:


> I think Green Acres was a "spinoff" of Petticoat Junction


Green Acres was a "Sister Show" to Petticoat Junction.


----------



## Latestarter

So I was mowing the back pasture yesterday and threw the belt on the blades/mower deck.  So this morning I wanted to try and get it fixed so I could finish the last little bit before the bad weather moves in that we might get. It took me over 2 hours to get that *%$_)%$ belt back on! First the tensioner pully was jammed wide open and I had to use a crow bar and whack it to break it loose so it would move. Then the manual says to use a 3/8th inch socket driver, set to tighten, and put the shaft of it into this square hole in the arm, then use that to swing the tensioner arm/pulley to allow you to get the belt on. Yeah right!  First, your arm is extended under the tractor and over the mower deck with virtually no room to work, and there's no way you can get enough leverage to even move the arm.   you'd need a 4 foot breaker bar to be able to do it the way they describe! I ended up parking the tractor with the mower deck up against a vertical support post and then used a ratchet strap to ratchet the tensioner arm/pulley enough to get the belt on. What a fiasco. But it worked and I was able to get the rest of what I started finished.

So then I visited with @Devonviolet and her DH for a little bit and borrowed their disbudding box and iron (THANK YOU!). Came home and warmed up a bottle for CC then went out and did the deed. Used my mustache trimmer to trim away some of the head hair around the buds. She was most unhappy about being burned, but it was over pretty quickly and she sucked that whole bottle down when it was presented. Then I put her back with the others and she was running around and jumping all over the place. I didn't take a picture but the copper rings were perfect and I'm pretty sure there will be zero problems or issues.

My next doctor like evolution will be de-balling CM... That ought to be a bit more interesting as he's not all that friendly with me, and he's getting bigger and stronger. I'm still contemplating how to hold him down and stationary while spread eagle and not allow kicking. I think I'll put him on his back between my legs and "sit" on his chest and bungie his rear legs open so he can't move them. I think I'll do it the same time that he and CB are due for their 2nd CD&T booster. Which will be the same time that CC gets her first CD&T shot.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> put the shaft of it into this square hole in the arm, then use that to swing the tensioner arm/pulley to allow you to get the belt on. Yeah right!  First, your arm is extended under the tractor and over the mower deck with virtually no room to work, and there's no way you can get enough leverage to even move the arm.  you'd need a 4 foot breaker bar to be able to do it the way they describe! I ended up parking the tractor with the mower deck up against a vertical support post and then used a ratchet strap to ratchet the tensioner arm/pulley enough to get the belt on. What a fiasco. But it worked and I was able to get the rest of what I started finished.


Used to do it several times/month, sometimes more, exactly as the directions describe. Sounds like my sister's 60" 3 blade Husqvarna. Sometimes, I put the belt on all the pulleys except the far left pulley. Then, just get it started on the left spindle pulley and roll that spindle pulley by hand, with the belt just started. The pulley's circumference  exerts enough torque to overcome the tensioner spring.

Changed the blades on my mower yesterday with the deck still installed this time. a 7/8 combo wrench and 5 minutes each spindle and done.

Next up is going to be changing the blades on my 6' bush hog. Not going to be quite as easy, and will require my 3/4 drive set and a cheater pipe.


----------



## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> My next doctor like evolution will be de-balling CM...



Are you cutting or banding? Banding is easy...you sit down on something low, like a bucket, and put them on their butt between your legs. They don't wiggle at all. DH taught me this trick when I asked him to hold one for me once, now I don't need any help.  Sheep people will trim hooves like this, not sure why goats aren't done that way for hoof trimming.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I haven't had to face that issue yet with the mower. It used to happen with my old one fairly regularly. Somehow I believe that this one will be a fiasco too. The old troy built wasn't too difficult, but it is quite a bit smaller than this cub cadet. Glad the burning went well for ya, and hope the cutting goes just as uneventful for ya too. Our risk for strong storms increases today, too. Hope we both miss out on those.


----------



## Latestarter

Went to bed early last night as I was just beat. Went out pretty quick (like less than an hour). Woke up around 3am and went to check the weather. There was a massive wall headed toward me but still about an hour away. I was still pretty stiff and sore so took a muscle relaxer and an Excedrin then kicked back in my recliner to wait for the action and it didn't disappoint! Lightening show was awesome along with the thunder and a pretty decent downpour. The rain didn't last long and I only got an inch but it sure came down hard for a while. Went back to bed about 4:30 and fell asleep with the light show moving east. No tornado warnings and no real bad wind. Hope you're ready over there @CntryBoy777 cause it's an hour or two away from you now. Seems to be spreading out, less organized, but may last longer for you because of that.

Ended up sleeping later than normal and got out of bed a bit after 8. By then I'm normally getting finished with animal chores. The goats weren't complaining and only one was out of the shelter... So Dot milked out an extra 1/2 pint with the bit of extra time she had but she wasn't "tight" and dripping. As a matter of fact I noticed something this morning that I've kinda had hints at, but it was definite this morning. When I walk her over to the fence to tie her off to milk, she stands there great. When I wash her udder with warm soapy water her udder doesn't feel "full/tight" but I mean you can tell it's full of milk. Her teats aren't hard and full either and I can squeeze them easily while washing and drying them with no expressed milk.

So I grab the milk pail and kneel down to start milking and her udder is full and tight as are her teats. It's like she waits to let her milk down until after I'm done cleaning her and am ready to milk. So I give the ground one or two good long squirts and then start milking her. Normally I don't mind the kids jumping on me when I'm milking, but when the pen is muddy (mixed with liberal amounts of poop), I really don't like them jumping up on me... I end up with little goat dirty hoof tracks all over my T-shirt and pants.  Of course both were fresh out of the dryer this morning   Ahhhh the joys of animal ownership


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> Ahhhh the joys of animal ownership


Ain't it the truth, lol!


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is like I used to tell my Mom when I was growing up....the Fun is getting those clean clothes Dirty, and the dirtier they are ther more Fun ya had......I'd always get that "I declare, I don't know what I'm gonna do with you Boy!"....


----------



## Southern by choice

CntryBoy777 said:


> It is like I used to tell my Mom when I was growing up....the Fun is getting those clean clothes Dirty, and the dirtier they are ther more Fun ya had......I'd always get that "I declare, I don't know what I'm gonna do with you Boy!"....



So true.... yet us mommas are the ones that have to wash those clothes... there have been times I have thrown things right in the trash.... knowing no matter what I do it will never come clean!


----------



## Baymule

Nothing like the pitter-patter of tiny hooves......all over you!


----------



## babsbag

You really need a strip cup for the first squirt of milk, that is the easiest way to check for any early signs of mastitis.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks Babs... hadn't even thought of that... Guess I better go get some test strips and start testing huh?


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> Thanks Babs... hadn't even thought of that... Guess I better go get some test strips and start testing huh?



You want a cup to squirt those first squirts in so you can look at if and see if there are any globules, stringy stuff, tinged, blood etc. 
If you do then you need to test... the test strips and cards are useless.
You do want on your shelf a CMT (California Mastitis Test)- you can get it online for about $15. 
Hopefully you will never need it but if you ever do you will want it!


----------



## Bruce

norseofcourse said:


> A couple years ago, someone at work gave me their 'old' iPhone 4S when they upgraded.  I used it for pictures, videos, the calendar, notes, clock (watch, stopwatch and timer), calculator and various other things you don't need to pay for service for.  I could even access the internet and other stuff when I was somewhere that had wi-fi.  With a USB cord I could put the pictures on my computer.  Only cost is the electric to keep it charged, which is minimal.



That works! Then get a cheap to buy (if anything) and use (assuming you don't talk a lot) TracFone.



Latestarter said:


> Then the manual says to use a 3/8th inch socket driver, set to tighten, and put the shaft of it into this square hole in the arm, then use that to swing the tensioner arm/pulley to allow you to get the belt on. Yeah right!  First, your arm is extended under the tractor and over the mower deck with virtually no room to work, and there's no way you can get enough leverage to even move the arm.  you'd need a 4 foot breaker bar to be able to do it the way they describe!



Ouch! Guess I got lucky with the 54" Craftsman (made by Husqvarna). There is a long rod on the outside of the left side of the deck connected to a spring connected to the idler pulley. Swing that rod out of its lockdown holder and all tension is off the belt. Easy to feed around the drive pulley then swing the rod back into locked position.


----------



## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> Ouch! Guess I got lucky with the 54" Craftsman (made by Husqvarna). There is a long rod on the outside of the left side of the deck connected to a spring connected to the idler pulley. Swing that rod out of its lockdown holder and all tension is off the belt. Easy to feed around the drive pulley then swing the rod back into locked position.


Now THAT sounds like a common sense approach.   I guess the "engineering gurus" got to this one because it's OVER engineered.   Many times, simple is better.


----------



## Mike CHS

That sure sounds simpler than our Cub Cadet.  Kubota is another that has some questionable design ideas in some areas.  Our PTO switch is a prime example of how NOT to design something.


----------



## goatgurl

girls are looking great joe.  and now that you've got your lawn mower fixed you can come fix mine.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> You want a cup to squirt those first squirts in so you can look at if and see if there are any globules, stringy stuff, tinged, blood etc.
> If you do then you need to test... the test strips and cards are useless.
> You do want on your shelf a CMT (California Mastitis Test)- you can get it online for about $15.
> Hopefully you will never need it but if you ever do you will want it!


Should add that to the list of things we aren't doing


----------



## Mini Horses

LS those Troy-Bilts are rugged, hard working mowers -- I have one!   But they DO get quirky when repairing.   Just found that I am lucky to own a model that had changes mid production.   My manual sometimes says one part # & it was changed -- you find out mid fix with wrong part!  Just happened this week....but, is still a good mow!

And, yes, things are sometimes "tight" to work.   Just sayin -- from one "mechanic" to another


----------



## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> Should add that to the list of things we aren't doing



You don't strip the teats?


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> That sure sounds simpler than our Cub Cadet.  Kubota is another that has some questionable design ideas in some areas.  Our PTO switch is a prime example of how NOT to design something.


Biggest problem I saw when working at the Kubota dealership (in regards to elec PTOs) was the retaining bolt would get loose and fall out or simply shear off. When the PTO dropped down, the upper hub that contains the coil fell out of the locked position and that allowed the hub to spin, shearing the wires off. On maybe, 1 out of 5, the wires broke long enough to allow us to solder the pigtail back on. Otherwise, it was a $250-$300 complete PTO clutch replacement. On 2 out of 5, the bolt had been loose long enough to allow the threads in the crankshaft to become worn and that mean either a high labor cost to replace the crankshaft or an equally expensive replacement engine.

Cub Cadet had similar problems with their PTO clutch retaining bolts. Most of these problems were on the vertical engines.
I 'may' have changed 1-2 PTO switches while I worked there.
Most applications, the alternator provides charging to the battery and ignition voltage. The PTO clutch coil, PTO switch and lights got it's voltage directly from the battery circuit. PTO clutch amperage is too big of a draw to be powered by the charging circuit.
Problems with the PTO switch usually came from low battery voltage. Low voltage, with a set resistance in the coil = high current. High current burns the weakest link out, which is the switch.

We took in all brands in the shop. 

With the exception of the original "Horse" rear tine tillers, we in the shop had a saying about Troybilt.
"Troy should have never built a 'dang' thing"
We made tons of $$$S off them, but we in the shop hated to see anything red come in the shop.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> You don't strip the teats?


We strip them
Not in a cup


----------



## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> We strip them
> Not in a cup



What do you strip them into?  Or do you just strip on the ground?


----------



## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> What do you strip them into?  Or do you just strip on the ground?



Each gets a clean rag, so after we clean the udder usually just do a squirt teat from each into the rag.


----------



## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> Each gets a clean rag, so after we clean the udder usually just do a squirt teat from each into the rag.



Oh, so still similar... at least you can see if something is there.  Rare with Nigerians anyway - they just have such a great history of not having mastitis issues.
Nigies really are amazing little goats... they have these large litters yet rarely ever have issues with ketosis or hypocalcemia, rarely mastitis.... they just plug along!


----------



## Latestarter

I've been doing a couple of squirts onto the ground from each teat, then look very closely at the first few into the bucket... If no lumps, strings, pink/blood, or anything else unusual I just finish the side up and move to the other side. I'm not drinking very much of the milk right now as most is being taken by CC. I get some like every third day or so and it's always FIFO (first in - first out).


----------



## Hens and Roos

Now that we have bottle babies(Coco's bucklings) I pretty much told DS(15) that he cant drink any of the goat milk.....he drinks as much at one time as the bottle babies do for a day!!


----------



## AClark

Aww, mower troubles suck. You know what I ended up doing with mine? I replaced the ignition switch and it still isn't getting power, but I can start it with a screw driver on the solenoid. I just fill the tank before I start it, crank it on, and don't shut it off until I'm done now. I know I can do my entire place on less than 1 tank, and if I have to "hot" fuel it, I will. 
^ Redneck repair. I still have no idea why the ignition switch isn't working to crank it, but has to be in the on position for the mower to run. At least nobody can steal it, right?


----------



## Bruce

Unless they bring their screwdriver


----------



## Baymule




----------



## AClark

Well, you have to remove a plate to get at the solenoid, and for a mower that old, it's more work than it's worth, lol. Even then, you still have to have the keys even though the switch isn't working for it to fire. Weird thing. I'm no mower mechanic, think I'll stick to my diesel pickup.


----------



## Bruce

Oh, I don't think I'd try to mow with the pickup!! Never gonna get a belly mower mounted on that thing.


----------



## Latestarter

I had been trimming branches on all the copses of trees in the back pasture that I need to mow around, to make the mowing easier. Tired of getting scraped/cut up while trying to dodge under or around the branches (many covered with thorn vines). So I'd only cut enough branches to keep the goats fed each day, then pull out the stripped branches and pile them outside the pen. So I've now created a burn pile that will need to be moved and eliminated somehow   I've discovered that they like and will eat virtually any leaves provided, they will not eat silver maple (I think that's what it is) leaves, and their favorites (like they fight over access) is the sweet gum leaves. They like the various varieties of oak leaves I've provided as well.

So it's been an interesting span of days... I took a treat bucket out to catch up the big girls to put them out on some pasture. I watched them for a while to make sure they weren't going to get into any trouble then went in to wash some dishes and get a drink. In just those few minutes, my wild child went missing... Yup, April broke her collar and was not where she had been placed. So out I go with another bowl of treats to try and find her and lure her back into the dry lot. Successful at that but until I buy her a replacement (MUCH stronger) collar, she no longer gets fresh greenery outside the pen. I may go cut some branches after I finish this post. I have to feed Crunchy her afternoon bottle anyway. Then I'm gonna feed me. I made the makin's for Philly cheese steak subs again  

Then the other day, after returning Bang and Dot to the dry lot after several hours of grazing/browsing/resting, I noticed that Bang had developed a limp on her left front leg. She had been climbing in a huge pile of downed mostly rotted tree limbs that was overgrown with vines. I was concerned that she might have happened on a snake and got bit, or maybe a thorn, or a cut/scrape, so I went and looked her leg over thoroughly and found nothing... well nothing to cause the limp, so she must have just twisted it in her wanderings or something. However, I DID find that her hooves were nasty.    I feel bad that I hadn't looked at them closer before now, but they were all walking normally and no indication (from looking at them casually) there was an issue.
The outside side walls were rolled under and the points were curled. Needless to say an immediate hoof trimming session was initiated. I also checked and did Dot's hooves. They weren't in the best shape either. April no longer has a collar, and I can't catch her, so she's gonna have to wait till I can get a new collar on her, and catch her, to check/trim her hooves... 

I don't have legit hoof trimming shears yet but do have (several) heavy duty industrial scissors that I used to use to cut fiberglass cloth/matting back in my previous job. So I grabbed the best pair and used them to trim the hooves. They worked, but probably not as well as legit shears would have. I will buy a pair next month (6 days from now) and do a hoof re-visit with all of them soon thereafter. Any personal recommendations on shear brands/models or where to purchase? After doing Dot and Bang, my right hand was barely functional. I wasn't able to use it most of yesterday. I can identify with the pain you describe @Southern by choice when trimming. I can use my hand a bit today but no strength to speak of. I so hope it's easier/better when using the legit shears. Truly sucks not being able to use my dominant hand/wrist.  I know there are others in much worse shape than me and suffering much more, so I have no real "right" to complain... Just gotta push through it and do what needs to be done.

The kids are doing great. CB and CM are getting weaned by Bang. She still lets them nurse, seems like 2-3 times a day, but not for very long. Her udder still fills but doesn't seem as large as it once was. The kids have to basically lay on their chests under her to be able to latch on and nurse. They're growing nicely. I'm still feeding CC 3 times a day with 20 oz bottles. She still doesn't completely drain all three, maybe one or rarely two, so I know she's getting enough. She's growing well also. She runs around with the other 2 and has no problem keeping up. She can't jump quite as high as the other 2, but it doesn't stop her from trying. She can still fit through the fence  and sometimes sleeps outside the fence under the tarp covering the hay and feed cans. It will be nice when she's finally too big to fit through and I don't have to worry so much about her being out.

Mel is doing great as well. He's still more a companion dog than an LGD but he does know there are goats, and that they are mine, and they should be looked after and NOT chased and "run at/charged". Bang still rears up at him if he gets too close sometimes but the goats have pretty much "accepted" him. Whenever he gets to barking, they all cluster and move toward where he is. Not sure if that isn't the reverse of what is desired, but then with only one LGD, it's probably better they be close to him than removed from him where a predator can pick them off. At least if they're near him, the predator won't be near them. 

OK, time to go feed CC. Hope y'all are having a great Friday lead up to the Memorial Day weekend. Remember the meaning behind the holiday...  to remember all those who made the ultimate sacrifice in support of this country. Thanks to them, and peace to their families and loved ones.


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## Green Acres Farm

@Latestarter, It's a lot easier to trim hooves in the morning when there is dew on the ground and their hooves are softer or right after a rain.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya know, when they get to chomping on those sweet gum leaves it sounds like a kid sitting and eating potato chips by the handful....it just cracks me up every time I hear them. Something that will help ya with the hoof trimming is to do it after a good rain and the hooves will be a bit softer to trim. I use the regular green handled trimmers, but try to do it when they have been on wet ground for several hrs. It isn't difficult since it is only every 3-6mnths. Sorry to hear the hands and wrists are still bothering ya. Joyce found some braces that have helped her to subside the pain some, but aren't as restrictive as most are, she got them at WallyWorld but will have to ask her the name and at the very least get ya a pic of them.
As fast as those little ones grow, it won't be too long before CC will be too big to fit thru the fence. Since ya have the land there, I'd just make a burn pile close by where they are and burn them....no sense in loading and hauling and then unloading to burn, it would save some discomfort on the using of your hands and wrists. We have about 4-5 burn spots and when the limbs and branches fall we don't have far to tote them....once it makes a pile just light it up.


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## babsbag

I had to trim Moonpie's hooves the other day and made her soak them first, they were so hard and thick I was thinking about a grinder. My general rule is trim in the fall after the first few rains and then trim in April before it starts to get dry. I didn't get to the April ones this year and now I am paying the price...one a day is about all I can do. I need some long handled trimmers for more leverage, or electric.


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## dejavoodoo114

I never thought about doing it after a rain or dew! Generally that is one of the few things my DH does and he has no problems with it other than annoyance at kicking goats..


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## babsbag

Yeah, I have the kicking goats too. I swear I am going to get them a tilt table and take away their dignity.


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## Mike CHS

Not sure about goats but sheep don't mind the tilt table.  They are held secure and I don't have to fight with them.  We did our ram the other day and he is over 250 pounds.  No way am I going to try to put him on his butt.


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## Baymule

LS it sounds like you have the happy goat farm! On the burn pile, wait until after a rain, drag a water hose out to it with a nozzle on it, and light 'er up. Pick a day with no to little wind.


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## Latestarter

With 40+ goats, a tilt table might be an excellent idea Babs... for 5-6 animals here, I can't see that expense. Now, when I get sheep too, things (like my mind) might change  I'm seriously considering if I should get a cheap cattle chute as well. Problem is, even with a chute, with just me, I'm gonna have a heck of a time getting them moving into the chute and throwing the lever before they run right out the other side ...

So I'm thinking just making an isle with those large corral panels and have the far end closed so as the steer moves down toward the closed end, I can stick a pipe through to keep him from backing up. After I'm done with whatever he's in there for, I can open the head end and let him walk out. Then close it and move the next one down. I can also use that set up to get them lined up to trailer load. Anyone else have any bright ideas? I'm open to anything that might work better.





Problem with burning right now is they're all very, very green... So may have to wait to burn them till later this fall after they've had a chance to dry out some.


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## CntryBoy777

LS here is a pic of those braces.... ...she likes them mainly because it has good support and each finger isn't in a sleeve. Also, here are some pics of our burn piles and they don't have to be head high to burn them either....   the last pic is on the house side of the goat pen and this is the one on the other side..... ...this will be burned shortly. Anyway, hope ya have a Great weekend, and sure Appreciate your Service...and THANKS!!

Yeh can mix some dry branches that fall with them to get them to burn and it won't take too long for them to dry in the heat.


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## Latestarter

Thanks Fred! Appreciate the pics and advice. Maybe we'll have a big ole bon fire when the grands visit next month  After I ge them to help haul all the branches from all over the farm to the pile


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## dejavoodoo114

babsbag said:


> take away their dignity.


Do it!!!

@Latestarter we save our burn piles until the kids have friends over and let them roast hot dogs and make smores! Of course, that means they can get Rather large...


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## Southern by choice

Well, not to brag or nothin' but we went upscale. We have ourselves an official burn barrel!  
Yep, a true honest to goodness fire-can!

We have done the piles too but I get sick of them. So I started just taking a little at a time and throwing stuff I could in the barrel. Of course the big trees are still in the piles. But it helps with the smaller debris.

My favorite hoof trimmers are these... I have tried a lot... these are fantastic!  If you hover over the pic you will see in the shear blade itself a groove - this is what keeps them super sharp... as the grit has a place to go instead of between the blades.  On big thick hooves we do soak them and if muddy or real dirty we brush them off in the soapy warm water... easier to trim and see.
http://www.esteplivestocksupply.com/hoof-trimmer-silverline/


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## babsbag

Mike CHS said:


> No way am I going to try to put him on his butt.


  I wouldn't either and that is probably a very wise choice. Goats aren't trimmed that way either, we just stand beside them and pick up a foot. Not sure why they are done differently than sheep.


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## Latestarter

Went to the feed store the other day to pick up the Big V grain. Found out the owner's brother had died and the funeral was the day before (they never answered my phone calls checking status). He had a bad cold going on as well and though I tried not to touch anything or get close, I believe I somehow managed to catch it from him...  Feel pretty nasty with post nasal and congestion as well as sore throat. Hope it doesn't get worse.


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## Baymule

Lucky you! Yeah, it will probably get worse.


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## CntryBoy777

Down some chicken broth and Vitamin C. Hope ya get over it quickly, a cold in the summer is very uncomfortable and having to get out in the rain isn't fun either. Stay as active as ya can cause ya certainly don't need pnuemonia.


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## Latestarter

OK, love me some T-storms and had  some sweet ones this am... Started building in about 2am (when I signed off here), but stayed mostly north of me till around 3:30. Then it was like one long earthquake of thunder with the house vibrating and lightening strikes all around.  That went off and on till about an hour ago. Meat of the storm is east of me now but looks like a new line may be developing out west of me. No heavy wind and no trees/limbs down (that I've seen) but did have some lightening strikes very, very close. Total rain was only 1.25". Lost power sometime around 5am. Obviously it's back on now. I'm learning that the power out thing is gonna be a routine with any large storm here. All overhead power lines and overgrown tree lined (narrow) county roads. No problem... Heated my morning kettle out on the grill with the side burner  I could take a pan out there to cook or grill food if I really got hungry.

Don't want to jinx myself but so far I've been really lucky as the weather always breaks at least temporarily right at milking/feeding time. I mean I know that's not gonna always be the way it goes, but It's been good so far. I have to get a barn built so I only have to worry about getting wet going to and from. Mel is one spoiled dog. I normally put him out for the night when I go to bed. He heard that thunder and rooted himself to the floor.   He does NOT like to get wet! I really think he has some goat in him... Maybe more than the goats themselves. So anyway, he spent last night inside in air conditioned (cool/low humidity) comfort. He didn't even want to go out this morning to go to the bathroom but I more or less forced that issue. He's back inside enjoying his much deserved comfortable rest  Gonna be one of those really lazy days (much like every other ).


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## greybeard

We could use some of that moisture down here. Been a pretty dry spring. Disked up about an acre yesterday to plant some forage seed  my brother wants to try, and it was tough going due to the hardness of the ground, but finally got it sown and covered. After 2016's spring flooding events I suppose I shouldn't complain too much. 

Power outages are common here. We (myself and 12 other residences) are on a branch line ending on my property. That branch line runs thru the Nat'l Forest and the forest service won't allow the power company to clear a wide right of way.
I use a coleman fuel camp stove for coffee in mornings the power is off. It's a bit of a pita, but the fuel in the little tank stays good for several months and those disposable 1lb propane bottles always seem to leak off over time once they are installed in a device.


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## CntryBoy777

With the ground so dry those seeds may have a difficult time germinating....hope not, tho I should know ya know what your doing. 
We have one of those canister propane camping stoves for the power outages. It does pretty well, sure beats nothing at all.


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## greybeard

They'll germinate ok, eventually. Of more concern, is that they germinate and then get no rain after the plants are up a couple of inches..


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## Latestarter

Well, another nice T-storm rolling by. Seems to have split this time with the heaviest stuff going either side N/S of me. Still get to feel the thunder vibration though. Lightening isn't really visible as it's a ways away and daylight. Nothing like it was last night and this morning (bright).


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## goatgurl

all the rain around and we got 7 sprinkles and 1 clap of thunder.  never will get that pond filled up it looks like.


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## Baymule

We had that thunderstorm last night and it was all thunder and no rain. But this evening made up for it. We got several good showers. The weeds in the garden just grew another half dozen inches.....


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## greybeard

Raining/storming here now.
Looks like a fair chance this week as well...........
https://www.wunderground.com/q/zmw:77328.1.99999


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## AClark

Look at you Late, down there in TX, hogging up all the rain...we could use some! It's supposed to be rainy all week after Wednesday into next week, and my water bill would sure appreciate it. I'm having to water my garden nightly. The rabbits managed to suck down an entire 5 gallon bucket yesterday, and the horses and goats are draining their tank to about half every day...basically, beaucoup dollars on the water bill.
It was 97 degrees on Saturday when we were putting up the fence. I've even turned the AC on finally, to the delight of my family since I don't mind the house being in the high 80's.


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## Bruce

So @Latestarter, when are you going to get yourself a Livestock Guardian Dog?


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## Latestarter

Yeah, I have had the AC on for several days now... happened when the inside temp got up to 88, but it was really more because of the humidity. I have it set to 72 or 73 I believe. It sure feels nice and cool when I come in from outside.  As for the rain, It's one of the primary reasons I moved to this area. I came from a very dry Colorado remember? And water was very expensive in CO also! From the weather radar I've seen it appears central and eastern OK have received more rain than they want or need. Guess you're too far west  But you have the advantage of being able to prepare for when DH's tour there is over and pick your new place accordingly.

Not sure Bruce  Would love another LGD and to have Mel doing it full time, but he's not there yet. Bet you wish you could get one huh? or have kept the one you had briefly... I can imagine that you still think about him and miss him. I know I would.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I can imagine that you still think about him and miss him. I know I would.


Yep.


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## Baymule

Since we've had rain, the humidity is sticky and makes the heat worse. I pulled a wagon around this morning pulling up poison hemlock. It was going to seed and I sure don't need more of it. I pulled it up last year too. One of these days I might finally get it all. I had a heaping wagon load of poison hemlock. I was soaked with sweat, took a shower and downed some iced tea.


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## AClark

We still have the humidity for sure. My hair will never recover as long as I live here. 

Bay, light it on fire? That's my answer to stuff I don't want. I'm overrun with broadleaf plantain. It flowered and I scalped it with the mower. I can see where it's coming back up, so I'll probably get the propane torch out and burn it when I get a chance, hopefully that will do it, it's taking up valuable grass real estate.

Nice and cool here this morning, which is a relief!


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## Baymule

I'm real careful with fire. We have a lot of wooded areas, so I can't light 'er up where it grows. It is work, but I just pull the hemlock, nightshade and pigweed and throw on the burn pile


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## Latestarter

Speaking of "pig"weed, I have a 50# bag of pig feed that is sitting here doing me absolutely no good. Would you like it Bay?


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> I'm real careful with fire. We have a lot of wooded areas, so I can't light 'er up where it grows. It is work, but I just pull the hemlock, nightshade and pigweed and throw on the burn pile



Which variety of Amaranth do you have?
I used to have a lot of it, but no longer. 

There is another plant in East Texas that looks very much like hemlock but is not. You can see it growing and flowering along many FM roads right now.


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## Bruce

You need to "remount that horse" LS and get another pig!


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## AClark

Baymule said:


> I'm real careful with fire. We have a lot of wooded areas, so I can't light 'er up where it grows. It is work, but I just pull the hemlock, nightshade and pigweed and throw on the burn pile



I have to be careful too, the hay farm behind me would go up like none other. That's what I like about the propane torch with the weed handle, it generally concentrates the fire to one area, as long as it's wet, it doesn't get out of control. Nothing like pouring on the gas and lighting it up!


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## Latestarter

Looked at the weather forecast this morning ~2am before I tried to sleep. 80% chance today (now down to 60%), and looks like 1 evening at 20% and the rest from now till next Monday is 30-60%.  Wanted to get an early start to milking/feeding so maybe I could miss the rain. Didn't work out that way.   Headed out during a light sprinkle after a heavier episode. Decided milking inside the shelter would probably be a good idea (boy was THAT a smart decision!). Just got started on her first side and saw lightening (close) followed by increasing rain and wind till it was a down pour. So I milked through a pretty decent T-storm. The storm finally passed and slackened up enough that I could get them their grain/feed and bottle feed CC. It was kinda funny but sad & sweet at the same time... Mel couldn't see me and the goats from the covered deck, so he stood outside in the downpour, at the fence end of the shelter, watching as I milked to make sure we were all OK.   He stayed there almost the whole time even though I told him to go back to the house. He's a good boy. He sure was happy when I was done and dried him off (sorta and took 2 towels) and let him inside.

So since their shelter is a hoop hut made with metal cattle panels, I wonder what would happen if it got hit by lightning? Would it act like a Faraday cage and route the charge around us/them to ground? Even though the CP's ends aren't actually touching the ground? They're poultry stapled to 2x6 boards... Don't think I want to be in there to test it out. I mean they are kinda connected via foliage and water... I guess I'll find out by goat status if it ever gets hit. Cause if it's raining, they'll be inside it.

So I glanced out the window yesterday late morning, like I often do, to make sure everything with the goats was OK, and I saw what I at first thought was April, outside the pen, standing there looking in at the others. It took a sec and then she turned and bounced down the pasture towards the woods... It was a doe deer.  I do enjoy seeing the deer here. As many coyotes as I hear when they sound off, I wonder that there are any deer at all.

So it seems I'm destined to get pretty wet, quite a bit, over the coming few days... Well, I did move here because they get rain. I haven't been let down since moving here.


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## Southern by choice

I do think Mel is spoiled! LOL
I always get a kick out of reading about him and the rain. 
When it rains here all my boys are running and playing and rarely get out of it. It is their fun time... they can do this because the goats are all in and they are just free to play play play.
I just wish they would go in the barn when it is lightening and thundering. Do not need a repeat of what happened to Badger or worse.


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## CntryBoy777

Well with the taller trees around, it should strike them before the hoop hut....I would think anyway. Also, with the Tposts they certainly would ground a strike. Glad that Mel kept a watch over ya and made sure of your Safe return....


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## AClark

Stapled to wood and all I'd think it would ground...might want to wear rubber boots just in case though, lol. 

I'm completely jealous about the rain. The weather liars said Yesterday we were going to get rain all day. We got a little bit over night, just enough to make it humid with the hot. Expecting more this week, and I'm seriously praying for it, even though it completely wrecks my hair and makes it frizzy, we need rain badly. I'm sick of hand watering everything every night because as soon as I turn the hose on, it sucks all the water pressure from the house, so you can't wash dishes or anything as long as I"m watering.


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## Baymule

@greybeard I have redroot pigweed. It grows 2-3' tall, branches out and has lots of thorny prickles on it. I sure don't grab it with bare hands!

@Latestarter I would love free pig feed, but don't you think you should buy a feeder pig or two?


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## greybeard

Average lightening strike is 5 billion Joules of energy or  5×10¹⁴ (or 500 trillion) watts.

A few Tee posts dissipating energy even a fraction of that magnitude is extremely unlikely.
That bolt of visible negatively charged plasma just jumped open air for several miles seeking the positively  charged Earth.
Rubber boots won't help.


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## AClark

I was joking about rubber boots Grey, you're pretty screwed if you're even close to the bolt. My house in Colorado had a huge tree out front, maybe 15 feet from the house. It got struck during a storm, I was in the kitchen and could feel the electricity off of it, not to mention it felt like artillery dropped a 105 in the front yard. Smoked that big cottonwood tree big time.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> He sure was happy when I was done and dried him off (sorta and took 2 towels) and let him inside.



TWO towels? That's only enough to dry his head!


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## Latestarter

They are full sized, large bath towels...


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## Bruce

Right, one for each jowl! Might be able to get an ear as well


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## AClark

Egyptian cotton? Next thing ya know you'll be using a blow dryer to make Mel fabulous!


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## Devonviolet

AClark said:


> Egyptian cotton? Next thing ya know you'll be using a blow dryer to make Mel fabulous!


  ​


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> Average lightening strike is 5 billion Joules of energy or  5×10¹⁴ (or 500 trillion) watts.
> 
> A few Tee posts dissipating energy even a fraction of that magnitude is extremely unlikely.
> That bolt of visible negatively charged plasma just jumped open air for several miles seeking the positively  charged Earth.
> Rubber boots won't help.


DH & I were discussing this a while ago. He knows a lot more than I do about electricity & lightening.  We had some thoughts on your comments GB.
*  wouldn't the metal "hoop" from cattle panels act like a Faraday Cage?
* @Latestarter, didn't you build a 2×4 box, to attach the cattle panels to, similar to our hoop hut?  If so, the wood would act as insulation - for the most part, depending on how wet it is.
*  DH agreed about the massive amounts of electricity that would spread into the air, to a certain extent.
*  His suggestion would be to pound a t-post into the ground, at one of the corners and attach some heavy wire from the cattle panel to the t-post. That way the t-post would act like a lightening rod/grounding rod.
*  since you sit on the ground, to milk, and the ground is likely wet, all of the above do not apply.  You are doomed to be electrocuted after all.    It was nice knowing you!


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## Latestarter




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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> We had some thoughts on your comments GB.
> * wouldn't the metal "hoop" from cattle panels act like a Faraday Cage?


Depends. A Farady Cage has to be a complete enclosure, 360º of surround. The ends can't be open. Like when a car becomes a Faraday Cage, the doors or windows can't be open.
I've seen articles, where cattle were killed inside a roofed, 3 sided loafing shed. One side was open--no Faraday effect. 
Better than standing in the open or under a tree, but I'm not going to bet my life on it.


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> Depends. A Farady Cage has to be a complete enclosure, 360º of surround. The ends can't be open. Like when a car becomes a Faraday Cage, the doors or windows can't be open.
> I've seen articles, where cattle were killed inside a roofed, 3 sided loafing shed. One side was open--no Faraday effect.
> Better than standing in the open or under a tree, but I'm not going to bet my life on it.


Good point, GB. DH says when he's out, in the barnyard, and a thunderstorm hits, he runs into the feed shed, which is a metal storage building. I'll tell him to close the door next time. 

Another thought on the Faraday Effect . . . our hoop hut has wire on the back side, but a 2×4 door (with wire) on the other end.
Does the door negate the Faraday Effect?


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Better than standing in the open or under a tree, but I'm not going to bet my life on it.


Only need to place that bet one time.


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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> Good point, GB....Another thought on the Faraday Effect . . . our hoop hut has wire on the back side, but a 2×4 door (with wire) on the other end.
> Does the door negate the Faraday Effect?


I'm going to answer that, but first an explanation of why I am hesitant to and afterwards, why I will answer it regardless of that hesitancy.
We have to be careful in these type discussions. What we type, will likely be read by others, and they may or may not have the background to understand that a lot of this type stuff isn't even fully understood by the brightest of the scientific community. If a young person reads all this, and the consensus here appears to that reader that the Farady effect offers protection from lightening, then they may assume they are safe in a chicken coop, a covered dog pen, or any other roofed structure surrounded by a grid work. By promulgating that theory here in the public domain, we just took a significant step toward putting that young person's life at risk.  
*There is no 100% safe place in a lightning laced thunderstorm!*

People have been killed by lightning inside their rain soaked houses, including houses with steel beams going down to concreted foundations instead of wooden stick built homes.
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/03/how-a-man-was-struck-by-lightning-in-his-own-house.html
Modern homes are designed as a type Fraday Cage, with the home's electric wiring and plumbing as well as the exterior making up the Faraday grid, but.........
People have been struck while lying in their own beds, inside their homes.
https://www.aol.com/article/2014/06/19/woman-in-bed-gets-struck-by-lightning/20916102/

So, would chicken or rabbit wire on a structure including the  door wire act as a Faraday Cage?
To some extent, certainly on a theoretic level, but, the grid has to be conductive  enough to be able to dissipate the voltage and current present.  Most of the electrons pass on the exterior of the conductor. The larger the diameter grid's wire or rods,  the larger the circumference as well, giving the electrons more external area to travel on. Still, no matter what, I would not assume a livestock or poultry shed, closed in with any wire would offer much protection from a direct lightning strike.
Would a door negate the Faraday Effect? Somewhat--depending what wavelength and energy involved.

Why did I answer even tho I felt hesitant to?
I am one of those people, that feels an obligation to answer a direct question in kind, and I have always felt it is beyond rude to ignore or refuse to answer a direct question asked of me. If someone goes to the trouble of asking me something, I assume it's because they really want an answer, or at least my opinion on the subject and as a matter of courtesy, I will try to answer it to the best of my ability. My answer may turn out to  be wrong, but I will make a stab at it nonetheless.



Bruce said:


> Only need to place that bet one time.


And I've already won that bet once in my life. Haven't forgotten how much it hurt.


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## Bruce

Thank you for your well considered reply @greybeard. 

As noted before there is a MASSIVELY HUGE MONSTROUSLY LARGE current in a lightning bolt. Anyone ever accidentally touch a screwdriver to a live 110V wire? Big pit out of the relatively large piece of metal. I suspect that the 1/2" hardware cloth on the openings of a coop would just melt in a direct lightning strike.


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## Latestarter

Been absent for the most part for the last few days. On Monday felt the onset of a massive gout/arthritis episode. By Tuesday was affected in both wrists/hands, both ankles and one knee, coupled with lower back tension/tightness/pain. Worst part of having non working wrists and hands is after doing #2... nuff said there... Was using alternating bags of ice & water and jacuzzi heat/massage to little effect on any area. I've been dieting and trying to eat less/right, I've dropped between 20-25 pounds (still another 100 or so to go), and have eaten nothing that is a gout no-no. No idea what brought this on.

On Wednesday it was difficult to move after finally getting to a standing position out of bed. I managed to milk out Dot Tuesday night and Wednesday morning by sheer willpower. Did just the basic with no intention of saving the milk but only to relieve her udder. Had plenty available in the fridge to meet CC feeding requirements. Wednesday at 10 am, took my last available painkiller and some Excedrin and headed to the ER at the VA hospital in Shreveport. Got back late afternoon and hobbled down to give CC her afternoon feeding a little late. After night milking, I crawled into bed and tried not to move too much.

Hardest part of driving with bad ankles is braking... No accidents and drove very cautiously.  Transit van from parking to ER door arrived right as I finished parking, so hobbled 10 feet to catch a lift from parking to the hospital. ER visit was very good, timely service and no frills or issues. Took 2 steroid shots, one in each cheek, and got a scrip for a 5 day steroid pack. They would not refill my painkillers  Said I had to get that from my primary care and I don't see him till later this month. I will be asking for an emergency supply. Waited for the transit van and caught a lift from the hospital right to my truck door. By the time I got back home I was able to walk with minimal pain and wrists were semi-working... still no grip or power in my hands. I gotta say, this is one of the primary if not main reason I considered getting a $650.00 automatic milking machine, even for one goat... Unbelievably difficult to milk when you have zero grip and little to no hand control.

Started the 5 day pack Thursday morning and by evening milking, my wrists were working and I was walking almost normally. Got progressively better as the day went on but did virtually nothing none the less... just R & R...

Today has been wonderful. I still have a little pain/swelling in my right hand/wrist but both hands and wrists are virtually 100% operational. The knee swelling is virtually gone, no pain in the ankles at all and getting out of bed and walking this morning was no chore. The past few days I have been very self centered, reflective and really looking deep as to whether this lifestyle is really what I want and if I'm really even going to be capable of doing it all by myself. Being immobilized sucks, to have to do a hospital stay would be devastating on many fronts.

Anyway... Today was a good day   All the kids got their CD&T shots... 2nd booster for CB & CM, 1st round for CC, so she's due another in 4-5 weeks. I had borrowed the kid disbudding box and iron from @Devonviolet about 2-3 weeks ago to do CC and held on to it a little extra time because I just had a feeling I might still need it... So over the past few days I had noticed that CB was starting to develop a growing little black nub at the very edge of where she was burned, and CM was starting to grow much more prominent nubs on both sides where he had been burned. Eyeball evaluation told me they would both still fit in the disbudding box... just barely... if I got this done pronto.

Today was that day. I have to say it was a VERY tight fit, especially for CM... he was not in the least thrilled and screamed his head off at the injustice of it all. But he has now been re-burned and the nubs removed. Hopefully that should be it and there will be no further development or scurs. I think I got all of both this time. He's in for another big shock if I get to TSC in the next several days as he's about to become an "IT"... He's too strong for me to try and restrain and cut all by myself so I've decided I'm going to do banding on him. I saw the tool at TSC the other day but couldn't find the bands. I'll look more closely probably tomorrow. He's had enough excitement for one day today. CB was no big issue as it was not much that needed to be done and it was over relatively quickly.

After that was done I gassed up the lawn tractor and mowed a path to the hay and feed station so my feet and pant legs don't get soaked by dew every morning. Mowed all around the house and yard including the long driveway and the roadside ditch/swale area. I'm gonna need to do the pastures again, worst being the 1/2 of the rear pasture that didn't get done after I did the first 1/2, 2 weeks ago. Like Others in this area... we've had some rain... just a bit, & this stuff grows like weeds... maybe because mostly it IS weeds 

So I texted @Devonviolet and will meet her and her DH tomorrow and I'll buy them lunch and return the disbudding kit with great thanks for the loan of it. When I get home I'll feed CC her afternoon bottle then it will be back to mowing. As soon as I have the wilderness under control I have the best intentions to get back to fencing. It's been dry for a couple of days, not too hot and not too humid and most importantly, not as much pain. For now, it's time to get off here and go visit my herd, give them there evening rations and collect my quart+ of fresh milk from Dot. BTW... had a bowl of froot loops with goat milk this morning for breakfast... it was TOO sweet  Whodathunkit?


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## frustratedearthmother

My DH suffers a gout attack a couple times a year.  He SWEARS by tart cherry juice.  Usually the pain is gone, or severely reduced in 24 hours.   Sorry you're dealing with that.

https://www.drdavidwilliams.com/tart-cherry-is-an-effective-gout-treatment


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## Hens and Roos

Hope you have continued improvement!


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## Bruce

Sounds awful Joe!! Glad the steroids fixed you up. Don't over do while you are feeling better, sure wish a bunch of us were close enough for a "fence raising".


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## promiseacres

Glad you're doing better.


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## Devonviolet

Geez Joe!  I'm sorry you had to put up with that much pain!  I know the steroids seems like heaven.  But, please go easy with them.  Too much, over time can do a number on your organs, especially your liver.  They can also destroy your immune system, setting you up for all kinds of unpleasant illnesses. 

We are really looking forward to seeing you, for lunch tomorrow!  It's been a while.

I'm so glad you kept the disbudding iron and box. I know from experience, it's hard (with all that screaming and wriggling) to keep the iron on long enough to get enough of a burn, to really stop those horns from growing.  I think at has been my least favorite job, since we started having goats.


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## Latestarter

Th@nks everyone. It seems my 1st letter of the @lph@bet key h@s decided not to work... so much for expensive cordless keybo@rds...  GRRrrrrrrr   I've got @nd drink t@rt cherry juice & it does help, but it c@n only do so much & I w@s well p@st th@t point... Losing the excess weight will help with this condition, p@rt of the re@son for doing so, @long with @ desire for gener@l he@lth improvement.

Just got home from dinner & go@t food purch@se (L@st minute, I know). @fter feeding & milking I re@lized th@t I w@s out of pellets for tomorrow morning so m@de @ l@st minute d@sh to TSC & got there with 10 minutes to sp@re. Go@ts h@ve their morning me@l "in the c@n" so to spe@k (it's kept in @ g@lv@nized tr@sh c@n w/lid out by their pen). I then stopped @ the money dispenser & stopped to get my lottery ticket(s) for tomorrow night. I only g@mble with money I c@n (B@rely) @fford to throw @w@y... Then went to @pplebees & h@d @ bowl of French Onion Soup, @n order of bone in extr@ hot chicken wings w/r@nch on the side, & @ skewer of grilled shrimp with @ dbl screwdriver in @ t@ll gl@ss w/2 cherries (gout remember) & @n or@nge slice g@rnish. Excellent me@l & well worth it! Less th@n 2000 c@lories tot@l & well below 3000 for the d@y. I figure I c@n splurge every so often.

@lmost 11pm & next stop for me is the j@cuzzi, then bed.


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry to hear ya been having a rough time with it all, but really glad to hear about the improvement. I certainly understand the "Gut Check" also, as I have considered and wondered about the same things....tho, I do have Joyce, but she can't keep up with it all and I have to handle the goats. I have the feeling that I may not be around for an extended period of time, but have thought that by having the animals, she could sell them and have cash in hand for her "Options" if something does happen to me. I can tell ya tho, just sitting around doing nothing isn't good for ya physically, mentally, or emotionaly. When ya have the animals, even when ya don't really feel up to it, it forces ya to get up and do. This means that ya are needed, wanted, and loved....even if the "World" is against ya. The animals are always Happy to see ya, lick ya, nibble at ya, and scare ya to death. I think ya would be cheating yourself of many enjoyable times and memories if ya tried to recapture what ya had before. Because if ya was Happy then....ya wouldn't have jumped thru so many "Hoops" and circumvented so many "Obstacles" to get to where ya are today. Plus, without the animals ya would be cutting more grass, more often....and even on a rider....it will wear ya out in the heat and humidity. That is why I'm looking to add some here....and cash for Joyce.


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## Baymule

I am glad you had the cherries and orange slice in the screwdriver.......hafta keep on the healthy side of things.


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## Bruce

And alcohol kills germs, right??


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## Latestarter

@s my friend Fred so @ptly noticed @ while b@ck, the go@ts seem to love sweetgum le@ves. Since I've got plenty of property cle@ring to do @nyw@y, I've been giving the br@nches to them for tre@ts. It does seem to be th@t they love sweetgum le@ves. Even the b@by CC is in there e@ting them.  This (^*&$$^ keybo@rd gets repl@ced tod@y!


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## Baymule

Sheep and goats LOVE leaves!! Yours look happy!


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## CntryBoy777

In the fall when the leaves turn, they will tussel over the really deep purplish-red ones. Yeh Bay they eat other leaves, that is true....but, they Devour sweet gum...fresh, wilted, and any stage to dried and crispy. Still others are eaten only at certain stages.


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## Latestarter

Enjoyed a nice relaxing lunch with @Devonviolet & her DH @ a place called Richie's. I had to text them and tell them that I was going to be ~15 minutes late and ended up being 20 minutes late.  I hate being late and always try to be at least 5 minutes early... (I left home early to stop at wally world and get the keyboard. Leaving there I realized I had forgotten to bring the disbudding kit  so had to run back home to get that, which was ten minutes each way).  Anyway, they didn't start without me and we had a very enjoyable lunch   They were so considerate   and brought me a dozen duck eggs (I see baking in my immediate future!) a small tube of "Two Old Goats" essential oil lotion for my aches and pains, and a battery powered syringe milker setup like she uses for her goats for me to try on consignment. I don't think the syringe size will work as Dot has sausage teats that are quite a bit bigger than the syringe I'll take it down tomorrow and check to see. I really don't mind hand milking (when my hands and wrists are working anyway). It only takes like 10 minutes and done.

I always ask for a menu @ Ritchie's and always get the same thing when I'm there   What can I say, they make a really good Buffalo Chicken sandwich!    I didn't think of it till too late but should have extended the invite to @Baymule and her DH as well. They probably would have enjoyed the break after all that work they've done lately completing their fencing  I am a bit envious  It looks so good! I'll get there... eventually.  

So while I was out that way I stopped in at the Sandlin Lake State Park on my way home to check it out for fishing and swimming when my son and his family are here. I think it will work very nicely. Also got a new wireless keyboard (came with a wireless mouse too). They didn't have a replacement model for the one I had so it "feels" different to me... But at least the "A" key now works.   And I'm only using one USB port for the wireless receiver since the two pieces work off the one together.

So got home, did the bottle feed with CC then brought out the lawn tractor and spent 4 hours mowing the back pasture. Got a lot done, but lots more to do. Stopped right about 8pm and then did the animal chores. Finished that up right about dark. Showered and got the computer setup done and gosh it's already almost 11pm... I just looked and it was like nine... Time, it's a hard thing to get a firm grasp on... When you're in a hurry for something it seems to drag, and when you don't pay close attention, it just slips past unnoticed. 

Back to mowing again tomorrow. Need to get it finished so I can get back on fencing.


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## Devonviolet

As always, we had a great time visiting with @Latestarter. DH & I got the buffet, and I ate way too much!  I never eat that much!  I haven't eaten anything since. And still am not hungry.


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## Baymule

Glad y@'ll had a good time. I'm even more gl@d that you got @ new keyboard! Re@ding th@t @@@@@ got to be @nnoying!


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## Devonviolet

​


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## Latestarter

OK, so I just want to attest to the fact that actual hoof trimmers work SOooooooooooo much better than scissors... I guess that old adage "use the right tool for the job" comes to mind. 

Oh, and just for the record, it's NOT a good idea to start trimming hooves 1/2 way through milking (before turning the doe to milk the other side)...    It kinda really destroys the whole "cleanliness/sanitation" issue... So that batch of milk is wholly reserved for CC's bottles...   I did manage to grab hold of April and though she initially tried to strangle herself, and screamed bloody murder, once she realized the fence was not going to let her go, and I was going to continue to lean against her holding her there, she calmed down and I was able to do a real good clean up on her hooves. When I was done and released her, she actually let me scratch her side as she walked (not ran!) away.  I have to think it felt a lot better walking after I was done. 

The local TSC doesn't have the bands in stock for castrating. They don't have them on back order either so it will be over a week to get them from there. 1/2 way home from lunch the other day I realized I should have stopped at the TSC where we had lunch as checking online, they actually do have them in stock. Guessing I'll take the 25 mile run over there tomorrow and get them. I'm gonna call first though, just to be sure. I'd be really unhappy if I drove there and they didn't have them either...

So I got 1/2 the remaining back pasture done/mowed today before I got another leak in a rear tire... 3rd time this has happened... There are some pretty serious thorns back there. I never realized how thin those lawn tractor tires really are. I have a plug kit (already used twice) and will locate the leak tomorrow morning and plug it up, then finish mowing tomorrow afternoon. It would be nice to start mowing early but it's so grown up and the morning dew is so heavy it just won't work. It would just pack/mat down.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I don't think the syringe size will work as Dot has sausage teats that are quite a bit bigger than the syringe



Dip them in a bucket of ice water. I hear cold water leads to "shrinkage"


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## CntryBoy777

Trying to "Multi-Task", huh?....
Sure glad ya are feeling Better. I'm facing the same difficulty here with the grass too. Seems that I can't get started til about noon, here. I was mowing Sat so I could take a day off today to spend with family....in field #2. Got about 3/4ths of it done....made a turn and the lft rear started walking off the rim, so it sat today and will deal with it tomorrow. I agree with ya on the thinness of the tire....it would be nice to get some "Knobbies" on it like trail tires. I'll have to check and see if the tire store in town has something that will work better.


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> I don't think the syringe size will work as Dot has sausage teats that are quite a bit bigger than the syringe


I was going to comment on this & forgot . .

The syringe looks smaller than the teat on both our girls too. The teat is smaller at the bottom, so get the syringe as high on the teat as you can. I find if I twist, as I push it up, it goes further. Once you turn the pump on, the suction will pull the teat further into the syringe.

I think we discussed this before. But, as a reminder . . . only leave the pump on long enough to get the milk flowing, then let go of the button. When the flow slows down, turn the pump back on, for 6-10 seconds. Just long enough to get a good milk stream. Then let go, until the stream slows down. This helps prevent damage to the teat.


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## Mike CHS

Gemplers carries a foam filled tire that I keep meaning to check into but the only time I think about it is when I need to put air in one of my mower tires.  

http://www.gemplers.com/shop/tires#flatfree


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## CntryBoy777

Ya doung okay over there Joe?....been a while since ya posted, so just checking on how ya are doing....


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> So I got 1/2 the remaining back pasture done/mowed today before I got another leak in a rear tire... 3rd time this has happened...


Slime, TireJect, or it's equivalent . Everything I have except my highway vehicles has Slime in the tires. They have it for tube and tubeless tires now.


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## Latestarter

Well @Devonviolet that syringe is definitely not going to work... It's way too small a diameter and I'm pretty sure I'd hurt her or damage her teats if I tried to force them into it. Next time we get together I'll return the kit. I really appreciate & thank you for your thoughts, consideration & effort. She has such nice teats and orifices and milks out so easily, that it's really not much of a chore to do. Maybe I'll count squirts on each side to see how many it takes to empty her. One side has a thicker stream than the other, but they both flow really well. If I thought I could trust her to not put her hoof in the bucket, I'd milk 2 handed... I really believe I could do it now as I milk equally well with either hand.

Thanks Mike, I don't think I want to spend the $$ required to replace all the tires right now... The plug kit is quite a bit cheaper.  But I did bookmark the site.

Thanks GB... I didn't really want to put stuff inside the tires, but I'm getting tired of having to plug them. I'll look for slime and use it on all 4 of the lawn tractor on the next puncture. How do you know how much to put in each tire? Does it say on the can (I hope/expect)? Will one can do all 4 tires on the lawn tractor? Guess I'll read the can when I find it. I have one of those gauge tire chucks for my compressor and the "latch" works perfectly on vehicle tire valves but for some reason it will not seat/seal on the tractor valves... Either the threaded area is too short or something else I can't figure out. If I physically force it against the valve and hold it, I can get enough pressure in the tires to ride on them, but the pressure is not what's ideal/required. most of the air pressure escapes around the chuck and doesn't go in the tire. I need to get a different style/type compressor chuck, without the gauge, just real basic, and hopefully it will work.

Hey Cntryboy. Yup, doing OK. Just haven't had a reason to come on. Nothing of any real value to contribute. As you know, there's plenty of other things that need doing.

So I was out milking Dot this morning and CC decided I would make a nice spring board...   I was down on one knee and the next thing I knew I had a baby goat dancing on my upper back, neck, and shoulders.   Glad she didn't decide to try for a head mount.   This went on several times before I was able to block her so I could finish milking in relative peace. Needless to say, that T-shirt went directly into the laundry pile upon house reentry... It had many little poop hoof prints all over it.   She tried again this evening but I was on to her & as soon as she started looking and preparing for her leap. I blocked her and she didn't try any further. Glad, since I was wearing fresh clean jeans and T-shirt. Got pretty sweaty earlier working outside with the chain saw. 

An advantage to living out in the middle of nowhere and not visible to neighbors (unless they want to walk through the woods 500' down the fence line to spy), is being able to strip down and hose off outside and not have to bring all that nastiness inside the house. Really like that the hose water starts out warm and then switches over to cool. At least (and I'm glad) I don't have carpeting except in the bedrooms. That does make for much less mess. Wish I had a swimming/fishing pond on the property, then I would use that instead of the hose.

Happy dad's day to all you dads out there. Hope you have an enjoyable and relaxing day.


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## Bruce

I've wondered before so I'll ask now. Is there some reason people don't tie down the back feet of a "nervous" doe for milking so they don't step in/kick over the bucket? 

I have a generic "ball foot" tire chuck for my compressor. It doesn't screw/latch on, nor does it have a gauge; you just push and hold. I overfill a tad, then use my "gauge on a hose with release valve" to bring it back down (same as I do with my car tires). I think the tires are only supposed to be something like 12 PSI.


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## frustratedearthmother

I've done that while training does.   With my gals I usually don't have to do it more than a week - if that long.


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## CntryBoy777

Good to Hear from ya....glad things are goung Good their, and I sure know about the things to do....and if ya ain't doing them, they ain't getting done....now, I have a bunch of "Projects" I have been waiting to get on...I just have .to Get on....
That's great that your hands are beginning to work for ya, instead of grief.....don't forget about us here, tho....Knowing ya are Breathing is one less thing to be concerned with amongst all our "Doings".....


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## Latestarter

The problem is flies... they land on her hocks and the natural result is the leg lift to "kick them off". If she were moving around it wouldn't be an issue. But since she has to stand still, we both have to deal with the fly issue. She's not kicking about the milking. She has no issue whatever with me milking her and in fact most milking times she's waiting for me to take her over to the fence where I attach her and do the milking. She doesn't get grained while I milk either. She stands there very nicely and coughs up some cud and chews away while I milk. But if the flies are thick and landing on her legs, that's when the stomping and kicking comes into play. I'd spray the whole area for flies, but don't want to poison the area as they lie down there, their hay is there, & I also don't want to poison the goats, or the milk that I drink...


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## CntryBoy777

Something that has helped mine with the flies is dusting them with DE. Ya can put it in their sleeping area and where they lay, too. It will kill the larvae and will lessen the amount landing on them.....tho, not all. Ya do have to do it regularly if ya get rain, but if it is dry it will continue to work. It kills mites, fleas, ticks, also.


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## Mini Horses

You can spray fly kill products onto a rag or wipe & use on the lower legs before milking.  Helps, not total kill but sure helps.

Plus, it stays there for awhile -- more relief for her.


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## farmerjan

I am not a big fan of chemicals but do use the Dairy fly spray that is pyrethrins...safe for dairy farm milk houses etc.  I spray it over the cows back and legs then feed her, give it about 5 min or so to settle out of the air then I don't worry so much about it getting into the milk bucket.  I have also sprayed it on a rag and wiped it on the cow.  Got one that HATES the aerosal sound of the spray can.  I also hang a wide "sticky tape" fly catcher above them in the barn and it helps to keep the population caught up.


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## babsbag

I am going to have to try and make the Two Old Goats lotion. I make goat milk lotion so adding in those essential oils should be pretty easy. How thick is the lotion? Is it like hand lotion or more solid like balm? What does it smell like? Just wondering which oil is dominant. I like the ingredients in my lotion more than "Two Old Goats" as I can pronounce most of what is in mine.


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## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> I am going to have to try and make the Two Old Goats lotion. I make goat milk lotion so adding in those essential oils should be pretty easy. How thick is the lotion? Is it like hand lotion or more solid like balm? What does it smell like? Just wondering which oil is dominant. I like the ingredients in my lotion more than "Two Old Goats" as I can pronounce most of what is in mine.


Two Old Goats is a lotion.  At the co-op it costs about $9 for 4 oz, which is too much for our budget, one of the reasons why I decided to make my own. The other is, like you, I didn't want all those chemicals on my skin.

It smells kind of menthol-y. I like it. The primary essential oil is Birch Bark Oil.  I really think that is what makes it work.

In the past, I have made my own lotion. But, when I wanted to make Two Old Goats, as hard as I tried, I just couldn't fit lotion making into my schedule, so I looked in the lotion aisle (at Walmart), and found an unscented baby lotion, with the least amount of chemicals (and most importantly without propylene glycol ).  The Brand is Equate. I think it was something like $4.38 for 16 oz.  this lotion is so thick, I actually add refined coconut oil to thin it down a bit.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> The problem is flies... they land on her hocks and the natural result is the leg lift to "kick them off". If she were moving around it wouldn't be an issue. But since she has to stand still, we both have to deal with the fly issue. She's not kicking about the milking. She has no issue whatever with me milking her and in fact most milking times she's waiting for me to take her over to the fence where I attach her and do the milking. She doesn't get grained while I milk either. She stands there very nicely and coughs up some cud and chews away while I milk. But if the flies are thick and landing on her legs, that's when the stomping and kicking comes into play. I'd spray the whole area for flies, but don't want to poison the area as they lie down there, their hay is there, & I also don't want to poison the goats, or the milk that I drink...


That makes sense. Perfectly natural to want to twitch when a fly lands on them. Maybe you need to jump back into chickens so they can eat the fly larvae. And maybe make a small goat milking shed/hoop house (in your spare time of course!  ) where you could hang a few fly strips for those that do get in.


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## babsbag

Devonviolet said:


> At the co-op it costs about $9 for 4 oz, which is too much for our budget, one of the reasons why I decided to make my own.



That is about what I charge for mine when I sell it. I really need to make some more as I sell a lot of it. While it is easy to make there are a lot of ingredients and I do use a preservative since I am selling it. I also disinfect everything in site while making it. I prefer to make soap, much easier and less liability.


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## Latestarter

Well, I think I posted a while back that I bought the bands to take care of Mousse... Hadn't been able to get a hold of him to take care of it so made a concerted effort this evening. He's been chasing CB an trying to mount her, and his mom actually chased him off at one point. After milking when I first put down the feed bowls, there's of course a mad rush on the first bowl. When that happened, I used the crush of goat mayhem to grab a hold of CM by a back leg and put him on his back, kneeling over him, with his head behind me and his appropriate area right in front of me. At first I wasn't able to open the band enough to get both testes through (hand getting weak again after steroids wear off), but managed by doing one at a time. Made sure that I didn't get his nipples, and lifted the band up the scrotum a little away from the body and he is now banded. He squawked when I first grabbed him but once he was on his back he was completely silent. After banding, I got off him and he rolled up and went right over and started eating. No issue. He did look a little uncomfortable after eating when he went over and laid down, but I'm sure it's temporary. I'll post the results over time.

On another note, I went out to lunch today at a different Chinese buffet from the one I've been going to since I got here. Wasn't any better, but wasn't any worse really... I actually wondered while eating if they were owned by the same folks since the buffet's are almost identical. But some of the foods are prepared a slightly different way. The place also happens to be right next to Harbor Freight so I went in and bought a nipple and basic ball cock for tire inflation and when I got home I tried it. Worked like a champ   All the mower tires are now properly inflated. While there I also bought a new roll of marking twine on a roller so I can line out the next fence row. The old twine had basically rotted away .

@farmerjan can you tell me where you get the dairy fly spray? or the name of it? Where you buy it from? I guess about any pyrethrin spray would work, and as long as there aren't any other poison chemicals in it, it is completely natural... I could try the DE as well as that's non toxic (food grade). I milk outdoors (unless it's raining, when I milk her inside the hoop house). I could spread some around the area where I milk.

@Mini Horses could you share the name of the spray you use and where you purchase it?

I saw fly traps at TSC the last time I was there... has anyone used them? do they work for you? Remember these would be used outdoors, not in a barn or shelter...


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## CntryBoy777

Ya certainly have to seize the "Opportunity" when it is "Presented" in such a fashion....glad ya was Prepared...
Sorry to hear about the wear-off, may be it won't get to the point it was and level out some for ya.....


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## Southern by choice

The big fly strips ( 1ft wide on a roll) is great for hay areas since flies really like to be around bales of hay.
The barf bag ones (hanging gross bags) smell so bad - think dead fish stewing in their own juices- were too unbearable for us to use.

You should look into fly predators. It is very late in the season but getting started is better then nothing. Get on their auto delivery.
https://www.spalding-labs.com/

We are really suffering the flies here because last year we were late and this year we forgot to do the auto order. Oh my goodness I cannot even tell you how bad it is and how ridiculously dumb I am not to have them.
Sometimes people thing they aren't working because either the population is so bad they are behind the gun on it or they only get to see the difference when they stop using them... then they see.

If it is real bad start with a higher number order. We have found the company to have great customers service all the way around!

As you know I don't band but I know a few people who do... here is what I have heard.... DON'T lay them on their back... let gravity help - they will "hang"- this is coming from those who learned themselves or from "neighbors" that missed a nut from them not hanging.


----------



## Mini Horses

Southern by choice said:


> they will "hang"- this is coming from those who learned themselves or from "neighbors" that missed a nut from them not hanging.



So true!!  Second part is this -- count!   One, TWO.....


LS  I get mine spray @TSC normally.  Tall can of "dairy spray"  -- name escapes me but, it specifically says approved for such areas.   Going today or tomorrow, will post a picture.


----------



## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> Something that has helped mine with the flies is dusting them with DE. Ya can put it in their sleeping area and where they lay, too. It will kill the larvae and will lessen the amount landing on them.....tho, not all. Ya do have to do it regularly if ya get rain, but if it is dry it will continue to work. It kills mites, fleas, ticks, also.


I (and undoubtedly they as well) am so glad my animals don't have to deal with flies.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Why is that GB?.....ya have too many "Love Bugs" for the flies to flurish?....


----------



## greybeard

No, I use established and scientifically proven protocols to control internal and external parasite, and I start early, before the flies even appear.


----------



## Southern by choice

greybeard said:


> No, I use established and scientifically proven protocols to control internal and external parasite, and I start early, before the flies even appear.


What do you do?
This year we have had so much rain and it is so wet everywhere it is a great breeding environment for them... UGH!
Can't use ear tags on dairy goats... we are at a loss.


----------



## Hillaire

what kind of protocols are you using?


----------



## Baymule

For all the animals we have, we hardly have a fly problem. We have 3 horses, 4 dogs, did have 3 hogs, only one left now until end of August, 13 sheep, 5 Muscovy ducks and a whole bunch of chickens. We just slaughtered 3 hogs in a week and were not bothered by flies. I thought we'd be swarmed. I think the reason we aren't swarmed is because of dung beetles that break up the dung and bury it in their tunnels and the chickens.


----------



## Bruce

They bury the dung in your chickens! Wow, I hope they forget where they put it and don't try to get it back out 

I dropped DD1 off tonight for her trip to Indiana tomorrow. When I came back the older chickens came up between the barns. Zorra and one of the littles were by the gate to the barnyard and the other 6 littles were scratching around in the older part of the Paca Poo Pile in the barnyard. The older girls do it as well so I guess I won't be bothered by any flies from that potential source. 

There were yellow flies in it last fall but that was when the boys were chasing the chickens out any time they were seen in the barnyard. Not sure if they still wouldn't but the girls have figured out it is safe when the boys are in the barn. The boys have no issues with Zorra and the "kids". Go figure.


----------



## Devonviolet

We have had a lot of flies this year.  It seems to be worst in the two areas where we keep Falina and Ruby and the kids.  It's been exceptionally wet back there this year. We figured out it's a runoff problem. So, we dug a trench to divert the water, but the torrential downpour, this morning proved it doesn't seem to be enough. So, we will need to dig it deeper and wider.  

I read that Muscovy duck love flies. In fact, one person said they butchered a Muscovy and it's crop was packed full of flies!

So, this afternoon, we tied the girls out in the pasture, and let the kids run around in the alley way around the goat area, so the ducks could have free run of the goat area.  DH said the Muscovy's seemed interested in the flies at first, but then they just wanted to lay around, with flies landing on them. 

I'm hoping if we are persistent with letting the Muscovy's into the goat area, they will whittle down the population and get the larvae too.


----------



## Latestarter

Southern by choice said:


> As you know I don't band but I know a few people who do... here is what I have heard.... DON'T lay them on their back... let gravity help - they will "hang"- this is coming from those who learned themselves or from "neighbors" that missed a nut from them not hanging.





Mini Horses said:


> So true!! Second part is this -- count! One, TWO.....



I made danged sure that both were through the band before I let the band go. There's no way that I could hold him upright, and band him at the same time, and be sure to not screw it up and grab a nipple or miss a nut or some other potential issue. I made sure I did the "anti-gravity thing" and pulled up on the scrotum with both testes in hand while I positioned the band a little away from the body, but well away from his nipples. There's no doubt there, I got both.



Latestarter said:


> After banding, I got off him and he rolled up and went right over and started eating. No issue. He did look a little uncomfortable after eating when he went over and laid down, but I'm sure it's temporary. I'll post the results over time.



Well, CM has been pretty "tender" today. He's walking carefully, favoring his rear end, not running, and moving slowly. He is eating, and drinking, and he did "jog" over to nurse from Bang along side his sister this evening. He lays down very cautiously. Since this is my first banding, I'm paying close attention so I'll know what to expect in the future. I'm hoping over the next couple of days he livens back up.


----------



## babsbag

I use the fly predators, 4x the number they say I need to start and double the rest of the time. I started in March. The flies are still bad but I know that they would be worse. I use the fly traps, all kinds...the green and blue patterned ones, the old fashion fly paper, and the smelly ones. The smelly ones are supposed to be hung AWAY from the barn so that the flies are drawn away from people and animals.


----------



## greybeard

Hillaire said:


> what kind of protocols are you using?


Those that would cause most people here to have coronary issues if they even read about them but I won't state them in someone's journal. There's plenty of real info in different sources on the internet.

Most of the little things I see being done are ineffective and the person's saying they do them state they are. And, most of those things are done and mostly just make the person feel they are doing 'something' without violating their own personal feelings about other things, while their animals are still plagued by external parasites.
I do not like seeing my cattle wearing their tails out swatting flies, picking their heels up every few seconds, swinging their heads around with tongues extended trying to reach the insects on their backs and sides, or running pell/mell across the pasture trying to escape the insects. I've watched my nearest neighbor's livestock go thru that year after year, and it's hard to watch. He uses some of the same things I've seen posted in this thread. He may as well be swinging a dead cat around his head while hopping up and down on one foot chanting 'heebie jeebie heebie jeebie heebie jeebie". 


It's my responsibility to everything possible to keep my animals from suffering, whether I personally like using the protocols or not.
The day my 'feelings' come before my animals' well being and comfort is the day I will get out of animal husbandry altogether.
(and no--it's not inexpensive to do what I do for my animals, but neither are the medications and other things I do for my own well being)


----------



## Southern by choice

greybeard said:


> Those that would cause most people here to have coronary issues if they even read about them but I won't state them in someone's journal. There's plenty of real info in different sources on the internet.
> 
> Most of the little things I see being done are ineffective and the person's saying they do them state they are. And, most of those things are done and mostly just make the person feel they are doing 'something' without violating their own personal feelings about other things, while their animals are still plagued by external parasites.
> I do not like seeing my cattle wearing their tails out swatting flies, picking their heels up every few seconds, swinging their heads around with tongues extended trying to reach the insects on their backs and sides, or running pell/mell across the pasture trying to escape the insects. I've watched my nearest neighbor's livestock go thru that year after year, and it's hard to watch. He uses some of the same things I've seen posted in this thread. He may as well be swinging a dead cat around his head while hopping up and down on one foot chanting 'heebie jeebie heebie jeebie heebie jeebie".
> 
> 
> It's my responsibility to everything possible to keep my animals from suffering, whether I personally like using the protocols or not.
> The day my 'feelings' come before my animals' well being and comfort is the day I will get out of animal husbandry altogether.
> (and no--it's not inexpensive to do what I do for my animals, but neither are the medications and other things I do for my own well being)



Real helpful Greybeard. 

I know here in our area some products are no longer effective.  
Frontline and advantix no longer work on dogs. many of the pyrethrin derivatives don't either which is majority of livestock products.


----------



## greybeard

That's why a combination of parasite control needs to be used--not just one thing. There is no 'magic bullet'.
From Merck:


> if re-infestation is likely, a strategic parasite control program should be established.
> For optimal control of horn and/or heel flies, this any any product should be used as part of an integrated control program utilizing other methods to provide extended control.


----------



## Southern by choice

greybeard said:


> That's why a combination of parasite control needs to be used--not just one thing. There is no 'magic bullet'.
> From Merck:


Kind of obvious it is more than one thing.  However when there is resistance then multiple methods start to be minimized. Then add dairy goats in- lots of products cannot be used in or on lactating animals environments. 

Here the extension services just had a big class on fly control... of course only geared toward cattle. 

Our biggest fly issues are not from dung heaps... goats have berries and no issues there... it is the spent hay and hay sheds that becomes the problem. For us given that we have so many gulleys and streams it is not easy.


----------



## greybeard

Same here. The flies don't predominantly  come from the dung piles, but from the rotting vegetation in the national forest and along the river. (all they really require is any damp biomass).
I drag the pastures, I switch brands of tags each time, insuring never use the same ingredients twice in a row, I switch mixes on my rubs, and use different components in the dust bags and the mix of  my pump up sprayers. 
I don't have fly problems, even tho there is plenty of dampness around my ponds and 60,000 acres of wet national forest around me and my ~30 head of mommas and calves.


----------



## babsbag

My DH brought home fly bait as the lady at TSC swore by it. I took it right back since I have chickens that free range. It wasn't worth the risk. I have thought about ear tags on the collars of the goats but figure that they would probably chew on them. 

Last year I used Vectra 3D on my LGD for biting flies on his nose and it worked perfectly and we were both thrilled. This year it doesn't work. Can flies build up a resistance that quickly?


----------



## Latestarter

Please feel free to go into whatever detail you feel appropriate on my journal GB. It's all for the benefit of those reading as well as the animals owned by same. Aside from personal attacks, this journal and forum are open to all comers. I have no problem with anyone sharing valuable info here. If not here, then by all means start a thread in the livestock general area.

CM is doing much better today, more like himself and less tender.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Having never had cows and the fly volume this year the cows are the culprit
Been trying to keep them sprayed
I'll be glad when they leave on July 6th
Will not do steers again
Not enough room
I mean we have enough room but we don't
They can't eat all of the grass where they are at
Too close to the house
I'll do pigs again but differently
Will not let them root up that pretty pasture
Will have a propper pen
Maybe I'll find someone to trade pork for beef


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## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> CM is doing much better today, more like himself and less tender.



Well -- it is a tender location 

Couple more days and he will have forgotten it all.


----------



## goatgurl

going way back in your thread and say that i'm sorry you've had an issue with your hands and arthritis.  heaven knows I know how that feels.  my hands are the reason I type like I do, usually all small letters.  lucky to do the punctuation.  my hands don't like stretching out and looking for shift keys.  I know some of  you are driven nuts by that but that just works best for me.  glad you are better now and hope you continue to stay that way.  glad you got cm taken care of before he started causing problems for the does and doelings.  and as far as fly problems go I am also a big fan of fly predators.  they work best if started early in the spring but they really do work.  i'm like babs, I won't sprinkle granules for flys or fire ants because my chickens free range and the first thing they would eat would be those granules.  the Muscovy ducks are also fly eating fools. even the babies will chase and catch flys.  and @babsbag I've never used the ear tags for flys but last year the ticks were horrendous here, does would come in from pasture with anywhere from 2 to 8 ticks around their eyes every day so I hung tags from their collars and they did a good job of keeping the ticks at bay.  hope the fence is progressing well.  I know how hard it is to try to do everything by yourself.  just keep on keeping on and you'll get there.


----------



## animalmom

Regarding flies and using treated ear tags on the goats' collars... I find it is a mixed bag with some goats eating the tags off of other goats.  I still put ear tags on some of the goats who seem to have fly congregations on their little goatie faces.  Some goats are not bothered at all.  Wish I could wear ear tags as the flies bother me something fierce.


----------



## Latestarter

Silly me spent 10+ hours on a lawn tractor today finishing the front pasture wearing no sun screen   My face is a bit red.  Been worse, but still not all that comfortable. Finished it up just as it was getting too dark to see what I was doing. Wouldn't you know but I was about to run dry on gas with about two swipes to do so had to run back to the shed and gas up before I could finish. The goats let me know they were very upset with me for not following established protocol WRT milking/feeding schedules... Not that they are in any danger of starving mind you. 

In fact I noticed tonight that Dot is not maintaining her weight despite grain twice a day, trees delivered about every other day for fresh leaves, and hay 24/7. She's getting pretty thin in the rear end/hips area. April is getting positively fat... prob since she's not PB Lamancha and is part meat goat. Bang is doing just fine and I believe she's weening her kids CM & CB. CM's testes and sac are pretty shriveled up after a week with the band on but haven't fallen off yet. He's not pestering the gals any more either  CC is a BB pest and has to wrap herself around my feet and legs anytime she can reach them. She hasn't tried to jump on my back while milking any more, but does like to put her front hooves up on my legs. I gently swipe them off as I don't want her getting in the habit of doing that. CB "thinks" she's a BB as well and likes to be right beside CC while she's having her bottle. The two of them like to nibble on my pants legs and shoes...

Question for anyone regarding the CD&T serum... I bought it about 7 weeks ago and have kept it in the fridge in the butter area. There's no "use by" date on it that I can see and I was wondering is it still OK to use for CC's booster in a couple of weeks or should I toss it and get a new one? @Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice @OneFineAcre @babsbag @frustratedearthmother or anyone else? I'm sure if I buy a new vial at TSC it will be one that's been sitting in their fridge since who knows when...


----------



## Goat Whisperer

What brand is it and what does the bottle say?

Brands that don't have a preservative will say something like- discard bottle after first use or discard any unused contents after first use etc. 

Brands that have the preservative will say so and will tell you if it is okay to use it again. 

Any vaccine I have ever seen will have the expiration date along with the lot #. 

What is Dot's parasite count?


----------



## babsbag

I use Bar Vac brand and it says to use it all at once but I never discard until the next year.  

I have does in heat already. Any body want Nov. babies?


----------



## Mini Horses

Any chance part of the label is missing?   Like ripped off.

On bottle I have in frig, just below the SKU is both a serial number & an expiration date.   So, if the label isn't saying toss after first use, you may want to look for a lot # or serial # & call manufacturer for a date.


----------



## Southern by choice

Definitely check the label. It will tell you if you need to dispose of once used.
CD&T vaccines are very cheap. Don't store it if it says dispose after use. Generally you can get a way with days but not storing for month, months or til next year.
There is a reason they are labelled and the law requires it. 

Either take Dot's fecal in to the vet and get a count or send it out. 
This way you will know the count and where her threshold is and how well any dewormers you use are working. 
You want 95% reduction.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all. There was a serial number and an expiration date of some time in 2019 on the bottle. It also states to use the entire contents once opened. I wonder if sticking a needle into it counts as "opened"?    I'll toss it and get a new vial... it was only about 6 bucks. Near as I can see in the bottle, the solution hasn't changed color/clarity/consistency, but of course that doesn't mean it hasn't changed in its effectiveness...

So I was out bottle feeding CC & giving treats to all the others yesterday afternoon and I saw Dot dropping pellets as she walked away from me & I happened to have a paper towel with me. So, I collected a hand full of pellets and brought them inside, put in a zip lock, then into a container of ice and water to chill them down immediately. (I did wash my hands after all that) I then took them to the county large animal vet for analysis. I asked if they were experienced with goats and was assured that they were. They said they couldn't (don't) do a count and for EPG they would have to send it out (if I wanted), but could/would do a float and let me know what the load looked like (if I wanted). I asked what the cost was and they said 10 bucks so I said to go for it.  So Dot had a "heavy load" of 2 types of worms and a higher than normal/expected cocci count. 

I explained that all the goats came to me from the same place and had all been together before & since I got them. I also explained that as far as I recollect, at least one if not all adults had been dewormed before I picked them up. The verdict was that they probably could all use a deworming and the vet asked me if I was concerned about being all organic or all natural etc. and I replied no, I want what's going to work. She smiled and thanked me and recommended a dewormer that they use here labeled for cattle that's injectable for goats and has been very effective for her other goat clients. She explained that with this product, there would be a 60 day re-spike and they would need to be treated again at that time. I'll get another float done here in a week or so to see how well it worked. This time I hope to collect berries from all three adults. I'm going to need to get a microscope and slides and learn to do EPG counts myself.

She worked out the doses for the adults and the kids and gave me 3 syringes each, pre-loaded and ready to go. Total charge for everything out the door was $6.95...  I couldn't believe it as I don't think that even covered the cost of the syringes/needles/product and certainly didn't pay them for their time. I asked TWICE to ensure if that was the correct cost and was told yes.  Oh well... wasn't going to argue too much & the float ended up being free I guess. At evening feeding time it was like a legit rodeo in the goat pen! I caught CM with his head stuck out through the fence while milking Dot, so stopped milking to get him his shot. He twisted his head and scraped off a horn bud scab bringing him back in out of the fence... nice bleeding ensued accompanied by screaming like he was dieing. But he got rolled, sat on and shot given. CB is like a bottle baby even though she isn't, so catching her was no big deal but I think she was stronger than her bigger brother (to no avail). She got taken down, sat on and shot given. CC of course was no issue at all as she is a bottle baby. Dot got hers while attached to the fence after milking. She barely even flinched... what a great goat!   Catching April and Bang was a bit more effort but they too got attached to the fence, and got their shots. I had to do the herd queen (Bang) first as she pushes everyone out of the way to be the first to the grain when I set that first bucket down. April is much more leary and I had to wait until I was blocked from her view by the kids while eating. But she too got attached to the fence and inoculated.

Gonna be another rodeo Friday when I have to catch them and load them for their vet visit. 

I didn't catch the name of the product and it's not on the receipt  I also forgot to ask about milk withdrawal time...   But while there I also inquired about getting a CL/CAE/Johnes test done on all three adults and that's going to cost $35 each for the three tests. I set an appt for Friday to bring the goats in to have the blood drawn and the tests sent off. They said results would take 3-5 days. I've never drawn blood (though I've certainly watched enough times as it's been drawn from me!) and figure this way I'll learn from a pro, real time, up close and personal rather than Youtube videos. While there I'll get answers to the other 2 questions I don't have answers to. I was intro'd to their large animal vet tech who would be doing the blood draw (His name is "Rowdy"... only in TX... ) Real nice guy. So tomorrow I'll be loading the cage back into the bed of the truck again.

So I also set up a "wellness" visit for Mel Friday afternoon while the goats are going in. Turns out down here the rabies vaccine, though a 3 year vac, is required annually due to the high incidence of rabies here. I was told the worst culprit is skunks. Mel got his 3 yr vac last May, so only off by a month or so and he hasn't been exposed to anything that he could get rabies from, so I'm sure he's fine. Will also get heart worm renewed (going to ask about doing the Ivermectin injections rather than the extremely expensive chew treats), and fecal for deworming him. He's been feasting on goat berries, so I'm sure he'll need it as well. I'm bringing in his entire folder so they can get everything in his record, right from the start.

Really like the staff and the vet. I told them I anticipate this would be a continuing relationship. Also told them of my future animal acquisition plans. I hope they charge for everything else the way they charged for my last visit


----------



## Bruce

Wow, great to have such a vet clinic!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Awesome!  My vet charges $15 bucks for a fecal...  And, the goat that broke her leg is now a $400 + dollar goat - and that's just to recoup vet fees.

Good that you found such a great clinic!


----------



## Mini Horses

So, I assume they do farm calls (?)....you just can't do without a really good vet, IMO, if you have livestock!   They sound like a great group.   As to Rowdy -- sometimes we need that much help        Plus they sound reasonable for fees.  Huge plus.

Mine trained me to AI mares, flush them, collect stallions for sperm count, to use my ultrasound equipment.   He's always just a phone call away.   Always got lessons from any procedure he needed to do, sure helped know how to respond and what to look for with many instances until he could get there.  Love my vet.

Keep them on speed dial.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I asked TWICE to ensure if that was the correct cost and was told yes.


I've done that more than once with my cattle & dog vet. Retained placenta; 1 ea injections of antibiotic/tet and having her arm up to the shoulder in a very uncooperative horned cow's butt, plus boluses, all for $100--I thought it was a heck of a bargain.
A good vet/client relationship is hard to beat.


----------



## Southern by choice

I am very curious as to what they gave the goats. 
What treats cocci and parasites together in one shot?
Why a shot?  
Also find out who is doing their CAE, CL, Johnes test... that is the fastest turn around I have ever heard of. Would LOVE that!!!!!!!!!! 

Also find out the law for the rabies. Titers for rabies last much longer than 1 year also the 3 year and it really doesn't matter the increased rabies population.
Over vaccinating is really bad and if a dog comes into contact with a rabid animal you need to boost within so many hours anyway.
Giving the vaccine every year gives no added protection. 
Follow the law though... even if it is ridiculous. 

I am really glad you have found a vet and they are reasonable! That is great.


----------



## Hillaire

livestock vets that know goats are hard to find in my area of ny, you're lucky.  I'm glad they gave you such an awesome price!  I love the name Rowdy that is awesome haha


----------



## Baymule

A good vet is worth their weight in gold!  

I give my dogs Bravecto for fleas and ticks, it's good for 3 months. They get the heartworm shot that is good for 6 months.


----------



## greybeard

Southern by choice said:


> I am very curious as to what they gave the goats.
> What treats cocci and parasites together in one shot?
> Why a shot?


As I read it, the shot was just for de-worming.
Vet did tell him "_So Dot had a "heavy load" of 2 types of worms and a higher than normal/expected cocci count._" but I didn't interpret LS' text as saying the vet gave anything for the cocci.

Don't know about goats, but for cattle, an injectable dewormer is always the most efficient
and productive way to go, with oral being 2nd best and pourons a very distant third..


----------



## Southern by choice

greybeard said:


> As I read it, the shot was just for de-worming.
> Vet did tell him "_So Dot had a "heavy load" of 2 types of worms and a higher than normal/expected cocci count._" but I didn't interpret LS' text as saying the vet gave anything for the cocci.
> 
> Don't know about goats, but for cattle, an injectable dewormer is always the most efficient
> and productive way to go, with oral being 2nd best and pourons a very distant third..



Don't know if vet did or didn't that's why I asked... if cocci count is high then you would think that would be getting treated as well.
Some vets do give a shot for cocci and it is effective just not the typical preferred method for goats.
Of course like all things no one is ever too old or too experienced to learn new things and I for one am all ears.

No, again goats are not cattle and the most effective method for goats is oral.
Pour-ons  are NOT recommended for goats. Neither by pouring on or oral.

Kind of why cattle vets don't make the best goats vets... very different species. 

Edited to add usually the only times we see injectable dewormers used is when a goat is extremely thin and the dewormer needs to be released slowly into the system.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Man!!....that'd be a dream come true for me, to find such a vet.....there certainly isn't any close, for sure. I certainly agree with ya LS....I'd much rather watch in person to learn than from reading or watching video....I seem to always have questions. Plus, it always seems that people video their Best and easiest handled animal, so ya never see how to get them into positions to do what ya need to get done. Has your DS been to visit ya yet?....was thinking ya mentioned he was coming to visit.


----------



## babsbag

Southern by choice said:


> Also find out who is doing their CAE, CL, Johnes test... that is the fastest turn around I have ever heard of. Would LOVE that!!!!!!!!!!



I send mine to Sage Ag labs and she runs certain tests on certain days so if I plan it right and get it to her on a Monday I can have all the results by Friday, and a pregnancy test too if a goat needs it. It is $15.00 for all three tests and $6.50 for the pregnancy test.


----------



## Devonviolet

Southern by choice said:


> Also find out the law for the rabies. Titers for rabies last much longer than 1 year also the 3 year and it really doesn't matter the increased rabies population.
> Over vaccinating is really bad and if a dog comes into contact with a rabid animal you need to boost within so many hours anyway.
> Giving the vaccine every year gives no added protection.
> Follow the law though... even if it is ridiculous.


It is definitely the law, here in TX!  I have had three different Vet clinics tell me that I had to give the three year vaccine annually.  I argued that it was overkill and they said it was the law.  I have no choice, but to give our dogs the shot annually.  GRRRRR!!!


----------



## Mike CHS

That's what our vet charges for fecals.  We had them give all of our lambs their shots and it cost $3 each.  We can do our own now but I was surprised how low the cost was.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Plus, it always seems that people video their Best and easiest handled animal, so ya never see how to get them into positions to do what ya need to get done.


No, REALLY??? 
You mean like the lady that gives her cat its insulin WHILE it eats? I tried that once with Samantha. For 3 days she wouldn't if I was ANYWHERE near her.

Or the guy who showed how to halter an alpaca? Or the lady that sheared one standing up just tied at the head (and not tight)??


----------



## Bruce

Joe, did you ever follow up on the "mail order" oral appliance for apnea? I think my "from the dentist" one is getting long in the tooth (if you will). Sure wouldn't mind replacing it with something equally effective but a LOT less expensive.


----------



## Latestarter

Wow GB... $100 for all that was done for you (and your animals) is quite a value! Like I said, I'm really happy with the vet and staff. I'm pretty sure they're gonna be "keepers" but I've only had the one visit so far... time will tell for sure.

I specifically asked if the cocci was an issue as it typically isn't in adult goats. She said she didn't think so but that it was higher than she'd expected. I'll obviously have it checked again when I do the next fecal in a week or so. If it's still high, I'll get something to treat that also. One thing at a time... The shot was only for the worms (as far as I know). I asked for a shot as preferable over an oral application, as I can do a shot by myself. I don't think I'd be able to control the adult goats & manipulate the head/neck & mouth to try and do an oral application. I've never tubed an animal either and am concerned I'd get the lungs instead of the rumen... my luck tends in that direction altogether too often. Maybe I'll ask the vet/tech to teach me that while I'm there with them.

Mini, I asked if they do farm calls and they said they would in an emergency or to do whole herd evaluations/etc. (Why else would you call and ask them to?) They prefer you bring the affected animal in to them... They have some pretty extensive handling facilities there. Not sure how you'd do that (easily) with something like a stalled labor in a heifer/cow for example or a large animal that's "down"...

Babs, having all 3 tests run for $15 is a steal IMO but I'm quite happy with a $35 cost as that works out to less than $12/test. I feel that's fair.  SBC (& others), I'll try to remember to ask what lab they use and I also need to remember to tell them that I want printed lab test results on letterhead from the lab for documentation and records. I hope the time they quoted for results was accurate, but even if it's 2 weeks, I'm OK with that. BTW Babs, that's crazy that you already have goats in heat... I mean we just passed the summer solstice!  So what are you going to do? Will you breed them now or try and put them off for 3-4 months? I mean weather wise, wouldn't Nov kids be pretty easy? Maybe your goats are striving to be three times per two year breeders, like some other goat & sheep breeds?

Yeah... as DevonV said, the law requires rabies vac annually.   Maybe the state owns stock in the rabies pharma company...  At least there's a savings as I don't have to license (pay a tax to own) my dog. 

Bay, I've seen the commercials for Bravecto. The protection (results and time length) sounds awesome but IMHO the possible side effects are a bit much... Have your dogs had any side effects/issues with it? I really don't need that particular protection at this point as neither the goats nor Mel have flea or tick issues. In my entire time here I've found one tick on Mel and it had just attached and had not blown up yet, and one tick on me, which was climbing my pant leg. I've seen exactly zero fleas bow).  Maybe because I don't have sand here? Whatever the reason, I'm very happy about it!

Cntryboy, my son and his family haven't come yet... Looks like some time next month (July, now only 2 days away... Where has this year gone to?) The G-kids and his wife (teacher) start back to school around Aug 14th. As for the youtube videos... the videos are helpful to me for sure, just like book knowledge and pictures are valuable but obviously nothing is as beneficial or the same as live experience... Actually, a video is the next best thing to being there... you just don't get to ask questions... But you have to start some place and you go with what you've got available. Think about it... Every Vets starts out with books and reading and videos over a long period before they ever get "(professional/teacher) hands on". All the latest breakthroughs are spread and learned through published works/journals/etc. So reading is still a very important aspect of learning.

OK so on a side note, the goats have progressively become more active since their shots (2 days). When I went out to milk Dot this am, her bag was hard (firm) and full. After the initial over filling issues were done with, her udder would typically be "loose"/not tight when I would wash it and after that she would let her milk down as I dried her. I was getting anywhere from a quart to a quart and 1/2 at each milking. This morning she gave me 1/2 gallon and that was right at 12 hours. Anecdotal proof perhaps that the worming had an effect on milk production? I now have almost 2 gallons of goat milk in the fridge and I am now at the point where the milk all came from after the shot was administered. So I can't drink any until I verify milk withdrawal time. CC was 8 weeks old yesterday, so 2 months in to lactation... Mel has enjoyed his fresh & chilled goats milk...   Guess he'll get to enjoy it more. Maybe the dewormer will work on him through the milk? 

Hey Bruce, no on the mail order sleep apnea device... At the end of the ad I noticed in small print it says RX (required?)... I take that to mean you need a prescription to get it. That particular issue always seems to slip my mind anyway as there are generally bigger fires to put out. I'm of the opinion that when my time is up, it's up. There are worse ways to go than going in my sleep. I hope I'm that lucky.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Latestarter said:


> asked for a shot as preferable over an oral application, as I can do a shot by myself. I don't think I'd be able to control the adult goats & manipulate the head/neck & mouth to try and do an oral application. I've never tubed an animal either and am concerned I'd get the lungs instead of the rumen... my luck tends in that direction altogether too often. Maybe I'll ask the vet/tech to teach me that while I'm there with them.


Giving oral meds IMO is far easier than giving shots- especially when you are alone and dealing with wild/flighty goats.
It's really not that difficult. One arm to put the goat in a head lock and the other hand to shove the syringe in the mouth… very simple.

I'm 5' 5" and 100#. Not a lot of "body capacity" here but I've still never had a problem doing it, by myself. I learned on some extremely wild, huge, horned meat goats. It's very simple. You aren't sticking a tube down their throats either.

I was just recently teaching a newbie how to properly drench. I drenched the actual meds and let them follow up with a syringe of water. Good thing too cause the goat spit out most of the water LOL but after a few goats the person was finally able to do it.
Like you said, have the vets show you- but I can assure you it's incredibly simple- even with wild or flighty goats.

And yes, you are right they will increase production after deworming if they had a high load. The parasites are sucking the blood outta em after all! 

So are you doing anything with the milk yet? Cheese?


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Maybe the state owns stock in the rabies pharma company...


I wonder if enough people with FACTUAL documentation that a 3 year vaccine works for 3 years and doing it every year adds NO protection whatsoever could take said documentation to their state reps and get it changed??

Re fleas: I've been told that dog and cat fleas aren't the same as those carried by mice and such. Could be the reason you have not seen any fleas is because there are no flea ridden dogs and cats coming through your property?

Re apnea: Always the small print eh? Guess they don't want anyone who "self diagnosed" to sue them if it doesn't work. I don't think people die from it. At least not in their sleep, your autonomic systems kick you to start breathing again. But that CO2 buildup night after night can't be good for long term health. Sure isn't good for waking up without a CO2 headache.


----------



## greybeard

Goat Whisperer said:


> Good thing too cause the goat spit out most of the water LOL b



Brings back bad memories...
Long ago, back in the dark ages, when Moby Dick was a minnow and Captain Ahab was a Seaman Apprentice, drenching was the only way we dewormed cattle.  The old stainless drench guns looked just like this:



 
That old green slimy medication must have tasted as bad as it smelled. Put 'em in the headgate, pull their head up and stick the nozzle in the back of their mouth and push the plunger down, and as soon as you let go of their heads, they started spitting and slinging it all over you if you stood too close. I think at times, I ended up with more on me than they got in their throats.



Goat Whisperer said:


> The parasites are sucking the blood outta em after all!


In cattle, that's why injectables work so much better. Right into the bloodstream and the bloodsuckers start dying right away.


----------



## babsbag

I agree with @Goat Whisperer , it is easy to drench a goat once you catch them. I just aim for their left cheek pocket and go sideways, not straight down the throat. For Ivermectin it is only 1 cc for 40-50 lbs so usually 2.5 cc, not a lot. Now giving them a copper bolus...that's another story.


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> I'm of the opinion that when my time is up, it's up. There are worse ways to go than going in my sleep. I hope I'm that lucky.


As a nurse, Sleep Apnea is a hot button issue for me!  As part of my Continuing Education requirement, for my job at Mayo Clinic, I did research into Sleep Apnea.  I was blown away by how few doctors (including one that I worked under in the Area Internal Medicine Clinic, where I worked at Mayo), totally misunderstand it and the far reaching systemic effects of it!

Sleep Apnea doesn't just put you at risk of dying in your sleep. It weakens your heart, raises your heart rate and blood pressure and decreases the blood perfusion to all your major organs, causes fatigue & compromises cognitive function.

I was diagnosed with Sleep Apnea, when I was recovering from my knee replacement. During the night a nursing assistant noticed that my oxygen saturation was 82% (should be no lower than 92%!)  I was put on O2 at night until I could have a sleep study done.  Except when I went to the rehab hospital, the doc there said I didn't need it, even though I still had low (O2) at night.  I had to argue with him to get an order to go home with oxygen until I could get the sleep study done. 

I ended up calling my surgeon & HE ordered it.  The Rehab doc was pissed at me for going over his head.   I mean he GLOWERED at me when they wheeled me to the car, when I left the hospital. 

The sleep study proved that my apnea was bad & I use a CPAP (Continuous Positive Air Pressure) machine at night. It makes a huge difference in my energy levels & cognitive function during the day!

I would highly recommend you make it top priority to request a sleep study, to see if you need a CPAP at night. And if you already had a sleep study, get a CPAP and USE IT!!!


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## Bruce

CPAP        

I woke up more often when it pulled off my face than I ever did from the apnea, couple of times per hour on average. Didn't wake up with the CO2 headache but was just as tired in the morning as I was when I didn't have the CPAP. Then there is the added humidifier. Inconvenient at best and they are only as portable as your 110V connection. 

Skipped the option to rip out body parts in HOPES it would help (I'm not overweight so unlikely) and went for the oral appliance. If it doesn't work you haven't lost any body parts that don't regenerate. Travels in a retainer case, not a carryon bag.

And if you already had a sleep study, get an oral device and USE IT!!!


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## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> CPAP
> 
> I woke up more often when it pulled off my face than I ever did from the apnea, couple of times per hour on average. Didn't wake up with the CO2 headache but was just as tired in the morning as I was when I didn't have the CPAP. Then there is the added humidifier. Inconvenient at best and they are only as portable as your 110V connection.
> 
> Skipped the option to rip out body parts in HOPES it would help (I'm not overweight so unlikely) and went for the oral appliance. If it doesn't work you haven't lost any body parts that don't regenerate. Travels in a retainer case, not a carryon bag.
> 
> And if you already had a sleep study, get an oral device and USE IT!!!


Not everyone can use a CPAP. My DH is one of those.  No matter what he does, he swallows air & ends up with a distended (painful) stomach in the morning.

He has lost 100 pounds since retiring in 2013, and now doesn't have a problem with apnea. So, he stopped using his CPAP.

I've tried the appliances & they don't work for me.

I could lose some weight. But in looking back to my 20's when I was slender, I had apnea back then, and didn't know it.  I snore differently than most. So, my apnea is not weight related and I will always wear a CPAP.


----------



## Baymule

My dogs have had no side effects from Bravecto. I don't dose them every 3 months as per directions. Usually one dose in mid summer is enough to get them through the flea and tick season.


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## Mike CHS

We do the same Bay.  We gave an early spring dose this year because it was so warm and I was seeing ticks in early March. They will get another dose in June unless we see a lot of activity around.  I'm in the tick prone areas more than the dogs so I pretty much go by what I see on me.


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## OneFineAcre

I've never ever treated an adult goat for cocci


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## Bruce

Very kind of you to be the guinea pig for your animals Mike!


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## Latestarter

Never thought I'd ever say "I have too much milk"... but there ya go, consider it said. Since I'm not sure of the drug withdrawal time yet, I can't use the milk I'm getting right now. Even with feeding CC 24oz x 3, I have almost 2 gallons in the fridge right now. I've already gone past/through the pre-shot milk, so all I can use this for is CC. This morning I dumped 1/2 gallon I'd just milked onto the compost (I hear lactic acid helps the composting ). This afternoon I have the vet appt for the goats and Mel so I'll ask about withdrawal then. Speaking of the vet appt, it's cloudy, very humid, and looks/feels like rain. I really do NOT want to fight with/load/unload goats in the rain   I sure hope it holds off till late afternoon early evening. Cloudy is quite good though as it will keep the direct sun/heat down a bit. The appt is at 3pm. Mel isn't an issue as I can load/unload him in/under the carport.

I'm not a really big cheese eater GW...  I basically use it (milk) for cooking milk/rue based meals, cereal, chocolate milk (a MUST have daily) and straight up drinking. Because I'm trying to lose weight, my diet is/has changed. Not just quantity, but what I eat. Have had to cut down on my primary food; meat, substantially.  Less of my favorite rib eye steaks and my other love; pork... any and all. The doc tells me to eat more fish. I don't really care for fresh water fish (too small and too many bones) and salt water species are pretty expensive here. I prefer fish "steaks" like swordfish or tuna    or shellfish like lobster, shrimp and clams. Not a big fan of crab as I got serious food poisoning from blue crab when I was younger. 

Thanks for the tips on syringe/oral administration. Perhaps I'll try that on the next go-round. So just squirt it into the cheek pocket huh? I might could be able to manage that.  I thought I had to get the syringe down their throat  or tube it . I think the shot was probably best though for the initial dose. 

Bang is queen, so she tries to control all three feed buckets  So I put them out in a triangle and stand in the middle until they've all had a chance to get a good feed and eliminate the "I'm starving and need ALL the feed" action. Every time Bang makes to move to a different bucket (from #1), I step between her and where she wants to go so she has no choice but to go back to the bucket she started with. Once they've all had a good portion I can move away and they'll move back and forth between the buckets without (too much) fighting and head butting. If I move away too soon, I'll know almost immediately as Bang will instantly start chasing the others away from the buckets so she can control all the feed. They all to some extent search for one particular item in the feed. Dot is the worst about it and will go through a whole bucket looking for just the one item,  then want to move to another bucket to search that one. Once that item is all gone, then she/they will settle down to just eating what's there.

I have to say all this attention I've lavished on Bang has made her much less standoffish toward me. She now comes up to me while feeding CC and stands for a good scratching on the neck and withers. Now that I've actually gotten my hands on her, she's very thin as well, comparative (or maybe a bit worse) to Dot, so I'm sure she needed worming as well. I'll be monitoring them very closely to make sure they're putting back on some weight. I've increased the grain/feed a bit at both feedings. There's generally a little left after they've all had their fill. I know that dairy goats are supposed to be "thinner" and more "bony" than meat goats, but thin is thin, and these girls need some more meat added to their frames.

It's taken 2 months, but CC has finally figured out where her liquid nourishment comes from  and she's been actively trying to sample Dot's milk, fresh from the teat. Dot's having none of that nonsense and kicks her off Silly goat... Or maybe CC just likes the taste of bag balm . I try to put some on her teats about every other milking. It's definitely kept them nice and soft/pliable.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Less of my favorite rib eye steaks and my other love; pork... any and all. The doc tells me to eat more fish. I don't really care for fresh water fish (too small and too many bones) and salt water species are pretty expensive here. I prefer fish "steaks" like swordfish or tuna  or shellfish like lobster, shrimp and clams.



Protein (from meats) shouldn't be too bad in smaller lean portions in regards to weight loss. The fatty foods and sugars are bad tho. Most breads will put on the pounds too.
We eat a lot of pork, but only lean whole loin, sliced into steaks and excess fat trimmed off.
Dietitian recommended/approved  it to me as a substitute for skinless boneless tasteless chicken. 

When Doctors and Dietitians say you should eat  fish @ least 2x week, they mean preferably, a more oily fish such as salmon and tuna, and not catfish or tilapia. It's also a fat, but it's a 'good' fat. This helps both in weight control, cholesterol control, and  glucose control.
(and no, fish sticks are not considered a good fish source--I asked)


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## babsbag

My DH has un-diagnosed sleep apnea, at least the doctor hasn't diagnosed it but I sure have. When he was in the hospital they had him on O2 for his pneumonia so they didn't catch it, wish they had of as he won't say anything.  He could probably sleep with it on ok, but the maintenance of it would be another story so I think I would like him to try the oral appliance. He doesn't snore as much since he lost 30lbs and I don't notice the apnea as much either. Maybe if he lost another 20 he wouldn't need anything. But we will probably never know. I get frustrated with him for ignoring it... when it is fixable then fix it.


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## CntryBoy777

I haven't been able to get past being a "Bucket Monitor" myself....as you were witness to. I understand your dietary situation, as I have to be particular about those things. I love shrimp, but they are high in cholesterol, so I don't get it much. I'm not a fish eater either, but I filet all that I catch and eat, so no bones at all.....can't eat salmon and tuna is okay on occassion....out of the can in tuna salad. If I actually stuck to the diet I've been given, I would truly starve to death. So, I just watch the amounts and how often I binge....
Are the hands and wrists still doing okay?


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## greybeard

Take this, 






chill it well in the freezer, so it firms up but not frozen and turn it into stacks of this,





Trim excess fat off the outside of each steak, 




bag 'em in ziplocks and freeze in individual serving size.

Not THIS,


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## Bruce

They likely won't catch apnea in the hospital unless they happen to be in the room when the patient stops breathing. The overnight sleep study shows how often and how long the patient stops breathing. My wife discovered mine only because she was occasionally awake at the right time. That should pretty much be the only thing you need for a "referral" 

With regard to "bucket monitoring" perhaps you could tie the critters to the fence near their bucket so they don't have the option of sampling the other animals' food without permission 

Eating fat doesn't make you fat, sugar (especially refined) does. Unfortunately sugar is TASTY! (he says as he finishes his daily Dr. Pepper with 40 g of sugar)


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## Latestarter

OK for those who asked, the dewormer used is "Longrange" here's an info link; http://thelongrangelook.com/legacy-assets/pdf/longrange-pi.pdf
I read the info and it says "This drug product is not approved for use in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older, including dry dairy cows. Use in these cattle may cause drug residues in milk and/or in calves born to these cows." so I have no idea how that applies to goats... 

Took the goats in early, before lunch as it looked like it was going to rain and I didn't want to chance dealing with that. The lab they use for the CA/CAE/Johnes test is Pan American Veterinary Lab in Lexington TX; http://pavlab.com/   They are open for deliveries on Saturday (tomorrow) and they had the UPS guy there as they were packaging up the samples to go. I was told they will run the tests on Monday and we should have the results by end of the week.

So about to head out with Mel for his appt.


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## Goat Whisperer

I absolutely cannot believe they would give this dewormer.

I actually told SBC "I REALLY REALLY hope they didn't shoot the goats up with Longrange"

The vets need to seriously look at this and look at how they are now contributing to "super worms".

In cattle it might be fine, but this should NEVER be used in sheep and goats.


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## Goat Whisperer

To keep it short- I know of a farm that used this.
They used it for I think several years in their sheep.
I was against it as it was new drug and had very little info in it. With the way sheep and goats metabolize I thought it could be a disaster. 

It has been.

Last I heard, after using it for some time the flock looked the worse than ever. 
Parasite issues
A lot of loss.

They stopped using it but are dealing with the effects (bad)

I believe they are dealing with some "super worms" and have recommended that they send a fecal out to a lab that can hatch the eggs and see what chemicals are best to use for parasite treatment. 
I don't know whether or not they did..... We have some disagreements so I left it at that.

http://www.wormx.info/longrange


Things may have changed since 2014.... but not many are following up after a few years. 
Just like many other things- you hear the great stuff right away- but who wants to update years later when things take a turn in the other direction?


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## OneFineAcre

You better talk to the vet about milk withdrawal.


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## Southern by choice

Wormx is the...
*American Consortium for Small Ruminant Parasite Control*

These are the leading researchers for goats and they really are great, although focus is meat goats (understandably) the seminars are fantastic.
I have been to several and they have been great.
Dr. Linginbuhl was one of the people I spoke with  before I ever went to one of the conferences, he took a great deal of time with me on the phone when we were considering starting in meat goats. When I asked about the different breeds before I could even say anything about the Kikos (which we were considering) he recommended the Kiko.
Amazingly helpful.

FARAD is where you can see milk withdrawel if it is listed.
Because the dewormer used is not for lactating dairy animals it may not be listed....

I just looked...
http://www.farad.org/WDCalc/

Your vet will need to contact them as your species is not listed AND it isn't for use in dairy.


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## Devonviolet

I stopped by our Vet today, to pay our bill, and he spent a lot of time answering my questions.  He owns a herd of Spanish/Boer cross goats. So is quite knowledgable about goats.

I asked him about Longrange.  He said it is an ivermectin (aka maclid) type wormer, and is a "pour over" not injectable.  This class of wormer has been used for so long, there is a lot of worm resistance with it.  It is not labeled for use with goats, because it is a slow release wormer, and goats need to have a hard hit (with higher doses, than this gives being slow release) to be effective against goat's worms. If you use slow release, it puts out too low a dose over time, and since it doesn't kill most of the worms, they just become resistant. It also isn't good for dairy goats because it takes so long to clear the system, the milk is unusable for a long period of time.  For these reasons, he said he would never give it to goats.


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## babsbag

Bruce said:


> They likely won't catch apnea in the hospital unless they happen to be in the room when the patient stops breathing.



He was in ICU on a O2 monitor and an alarm went off whenever his levels dropped but they dropped so often that there was no way to determine why...could have been apnea or the pneumonia.


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## babsbag

There is an injectable Longrange. (eprinomectin)

http://www.wormx.info/longrange


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## Goat Whisperer

Devonviolet said:


> I stopped by our Vet today, to pay our bill, and he spent a lot of time answering my questions.  He owns a herd of Spanish/Boer cross goats. So is quite knowledgable about goats.
> 
> I asked him about Longrange.  He said it is an ivermectin (aka maclid) type wormer, and is a "pour over" not injectable.  This class of wormer has been used for so long, there is a lot of worm resistance with it.  It is not labeled for use with goats, because it is a slow release wormer, and goats need to have a hard hit (with higher doses, than this gives being slow release) to be effective against goat's worms. If you use slow release, it puts out too low a dose over time, and since it doesn't kill most of the worms, they just become resistant. It also isn't good for dairy goats because it takes so long to clear the system, the milk is unusable for a long period of time.  For these reasons, he said he would never give it to goats.


Long range is an injectable 
http://thelongrangelook.com/


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## Goat Whisperer

@Devonviolet 
There is a pour on eprinomectin "eprinex" but the "long range" is injectable.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Poor @Latestarter his thread blew up again


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## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> He was in ICU on a O2 monitor and an alarm went off whenever his levels dropped but they dropped so often that there was no way to determine why...could have been apnea or the pneumonia.


That's a tough one.  If he's in the hospital for pneumonia, they are most likely to miss the obvious signs of sleep apnea, because they both cause hypoxia (low O2 levels).

In addition to talking about symptoms of pneumonia, the doctor or nurse should be asking questions, like do you snore? That's a biggie . . . Usually the spouse will say a resounding, "YES!!!" Many times they will say "We sleep in separate rooms, because he (or she) keeps me up all night, it's so loud!"  Is your mouth dry in the morning? Do you wake up with a headache? Are you tired all the time?  Do you have trouble remembering things? Another indicator is consistently elevated heart rate (usually over 100 beats per minute) and high blood pressure.


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## Devonviolet

Goat Whisperer said:


> @Devonviolet
> There is a pour on eprinomectin "eprinex" but the "long range" is injectable.


I was just repeating what the Vet said.  He said a lot, while we were talking. I think what he meant was that class of wormer (especially in goats) is pour on.  But, again, he said it is not for goats.


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## Goat Whisperer

Sounds like the Vet was thinking of the wrong one… 

If you read the links posted, you will see the injectable kind- the kind LS gave.


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## Devonviolet

Goat Whisperer said:


> Sounds like the Vet was thinking of the wrong one…
> 
> If you read the links posted, you will see the injectable kind- the kind LS gave.


He actually pulled the Vet's info up on the computer.


----------



## Southern by choice

Devonviolet said:


> I stopped by our Vet today, to pay our bill, and he spent a lot of time answering my questions.  He owns a herd of Spanish/Boer cross goats. So is quite knowledgable about goats.
> 
> I asked him about Longrange.  He said it is an ivermectin (aka maclid) type wormer, and is a "pour over" not injectable.  This class of wormer has been used for so long, there is a lot of worm resistance with it.  It is not labeled for use with goats, because it is a slow release wormer, and goats need to have a hard hit (with higher doses, than this gives being slow release) to be effective against goat's worms. If you use slow release, it puts out too low a dose over time, and since it doesn't kill most of the worms, they just become resistant. It also isn't good for dairy goats because it takes so long to clear the system, the milk is unusable for a long period of time.  For these reasons, he said he would never give it to goats.





Devonviolet said:


> I was just repeating what the Vet said.  He said a lot, while we were talking. I think what he meant was that class of wormer (especially in goats) is pour on.  But, again, he said it is not for goats.





Goat Whisperer said:


> Sounds like the Vet was thinking of the wrong one…
> 
> If you read the links posted, you will see the injectable kind- the kind LS gave.





Devonviolet said:


> He actually pulled the Vet's info up on the computer.



looks to me they are similar - although the longrange may have a different compound... either way not good. 
Poor LS- there goes all his milk for a long time. That really stinks. Try to get care and then this. These may be really good vets but just not great with goats. There are many cattle vets that will tell their clients they don't really know goats but will do their best- these are the ones that you can work with. Hopefully LS you can share the info without them getting their nickers in a wad... you never know.
Glad they are dewormed though and they are getting tested! That is a great turnaround for the labs! 

from the info-http://www.wormx.info/longrange
_LongRange™ contains the drug eprinomectin, which is also found in the cattle pour-on product Eprinex®. Eprinomectin is in the same family of drugs as ivermectin (Ivomec®). This family of drugs, the macrocyclic lactones (or MLs), also includes the drugs doramectin (Dectomax®) and moxidectin (Cydectin®). _


The disturbing thing to me is that even in the literature for the longrange( http://thelongrangelook.com/legacy-assets/pdf/longrange-pi.pdf)
It clearly states-  _Animal Safety Warnings and Precautions The product is likely to cause tissue damage at the site of injection, including possible granulomas and necrosis. These reactions have disappeared without treatment. Local tissue reaction may result in trim loss of edible tissue at slaughter. Observe cattle for injection site reactions. If injection site reactions are suspected, consult your veterinarian. This product is not for intravenous or intramuscular use. Protect product from light._ _*LONGRANGE® (eprinomectin) has been developed specifically for use in cattle only. This product should not be used in other animal species.*_


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## Bruce

Ouch.
I guess @Latestarter goes from "I have too much milk" back to "I have no milk".


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## OneFineAcre

Welll...
LS I would speak to the vet
Did you tell them the doe was in milk?
If the meat withdrawal is 48 days milk is always less
Maybe they can give you some guidance
It's in the Ivermectin family 
Which they do give to people


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## Latestarter

OK... I had my own concerns with this as I specifically asked her today about the wormer she used and the fact that the literature specifically says NOT to use in dairy cows because milk withdrawal times had NOT been established. She said she needed to check, left for a bit, then came back and said there is no withdrawal time and that I could use the milk right now. Sorry, that does NOT sound right to me and _now I'm guessing to be on the safe side I'll wait at least 30 days. What do y'all think about that plan?_ I'm seriously reconsidering my initial evaluation of this vet.  <sigh>... my luck... too good to be true it seems. I'll start looking around for another large animal vet close by that DOES have goat experience.

It was specifically the injectable, not the pour on. I made sure of that before I got it. Had I known about all this before hand, I would have asked about a different brand/type of dewormer to use. As expected, the bed of the truck was coated with droppings by the time I got to the clinic. I asked the techs if it was too soon after the deworming to do a re-float and was told it was... Need to wait a week to 10 days. So I'll get it done some time after the week of the 4th. (maybe at a different clinic? )

So Mel went in for his meet and greet today. He weighed 138 pounds. I was hit with the "professional" requirement that he have a heart worm blood test before they would write a scrip for the meds. I explained that he was just dosed with his last chewables and that a test should not be necessary. She said she didn't want me to feel like I was being forced to get the test, to which I replied but I AM being forced as you won't give me a scrip without it.   Bottom line I had to (chose to) pay the $15 for the blood test in order to get him the 6 month shot ($70 compared to $160 or $270 for the 2 most common brands of chewables - 6 month supply), which of course came back negative, exactly as I told them it would. The shot is also supposed to work on round and whip worms so counts as a deworming for him. I also asked specifically if this shot would be too much since he just had the chewables... she replied no.

He also got his rabies shot. I kinda jokingly asked her if he'd need to be tested for rabies before she could give him that shot... she replied no, to which I said, oh, well that's good, he'd be about useless without a brain...  Perhaps that wasn't such a good exchange looking back...

Mel was a champ and lived up to his name. Such a laid back (Mellow) great pup  When we got home he didn't even think about exploring... when he came down out of the back seat of the truck he headed straight for the door into the air conditioned house and crashed out on the nice cool wood floor.   He's spent most of the afternoon recouping from the arduous encounter/evolution.  He was a huge hit with the staff and other customers. One lady actually took pictures of him to show her husband.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I think 30 days at least on the milk
And as to the comment about needing the brain as to the rabies test yeah you might want to chill on that


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## babsbag

I buy generic heart worm pills from Canada, they aren't chewable but a Pill Pocket takes care of that. No script needed. I can't afford chewable pills for 6 dogs.  I have also been known to give Ivermectin orally,  1/10 cc for every 10lbs.


----------



## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> I buy generic heart worm pills from Canada, they aren't chewable but a Pill Pocket takes care of that. No script needed. I can't afford chewable pills for 6 dogs.  I have also been known to give Ivermectin orally,  1/10 cc for every 10lbs.


My family has raised bird dogs many years 
We have always given Ivermectin orally 
That's what I give mine now same dose 
No way I could afford heart guard for all of these


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Eating fat doesn't make you fat,


Sure it will.
Sugar does it much easier, and so do carbs, but both (as well as fatss) are sources of calories. Most fat has around 10 calories/gram. That's twice as much calories as carbohydrates. The more fat you eat, the more calories you take in. The body stores fat for energy, which is a good thing, unless you don't make use of it, then it just keeps getting 'stored'. Under exertion, our body uses carb energy first, then starts using fat energy. That's why it's so hard to lose weight when you have a fatty diet. The fat you eat gets stored in adipose tissue, which among other places, is around internal organs. Belly fat.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Latestarter said:


> She said she didn't want me to feel like I was being forced to get the test, to which I replied but I AM being forced as you won't give me a scrip without it.  Bottom line I had to (chose to) pay the $15 for the blood test in order to get him the 6 month shot ($70 compared to $160 or $270 for the 2 most common brands of chewables - 6 month supply), which of course came back negative, exactly as I told them it would.


I used to shake my head at it too, but then I started seeing the resistance issues.
Some HW is now resistant to Ivermectin
I know a lady who faithfully gave her dog the proper Ivermectin tablets every month. She needed more (end of the year) so took her dog to the vet for a yearly checkup and did the annual HW check.

It was POSITIVE!

She was mortified and shocked.
Turns out the whole area was having resistance issues.

We run tests on ours every year to be sure.

ETA not really sure what to tell you on how long to dump the milk


----------



## goatgurl

dang joe, what a nightmare!  note to self, look for a more goat savvy vet.  did you not have them checked after you moved them or after dot kidded?  and cocci for dots age is really unusual.  mel and cc are gonna love you for all the extra milk they are going to get for the next month or so.  now would be a good time to get a feeder pig and share the wealth.  
  as for the heart worms rx I give ivermec orally to all of my dogs except JJ.  have for years and years.  I've always given a bit more than the prescribed dosage and to my knowledge there is no resistance in this area and I hope it stays that way.
  and @greybeard is right, fat does make fat.  sugar and starch are worse culprits but if you follow the all things in moderation rule it usually works (says the little fat lady who can't seem to do it herself).  congrats on you weight loss so far.  proud of you.


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> OK... I had my own concerns with this as I specifically asked her today about the wormer she used and the fact that the literature specifically says NOT to use in dairy cows because milk withdrawal times had NOT been established. She said she needed to check, left for a bit, then came back and said there is no withdrawal time and that I could use the milk right now. Sorry, that does NOT sound right to me and _now I'm guessing to be on the safe side I'll wait at least 30 days. What do y'all think about that plan?_ I'm seriously reconsidering my initial evaluation of this vet.  <sigh>... my luck... too good to be true it seems. I'll start looking around for another large animal vet close by that DOES have goat experience.
> 
> It was specifically the injectable, not the pour on. I made sure of that before I got it. Had I known about all this before hand, I would have asked about a different brand/type of dewormer to use. As expected, the bed of the truck was coated with droppings by the time I got to the clinic. I asked the techs if it was too soon after the deworming to do a re-float and was told it was... Need to wait a week to 10 days. So I'll get it done some time after the week of the 4th. (maybe at a different clinic? )
> 
> So Mel went in for his meet and greet today. He weighed 138 pounds. I was hit with the "professional" requirement that he have a heart worm blood test before they would write a scrip for the meds. I explained that he was just dosed with his last chewables and that a test should not be necessary. She said she didn't want me to feel like I was being forced to get the test, to which I replied but I AM being forced as you won't give me a scrip without it.   Bottom line I had to (chose to) pay the $15 for the blood test in order to get him the 6 month shot ($70 compared to $160 or $270 for the 2 most common brands of chewables - 6 month supply), which of course came back negative, exactly as I told them it would. The shot is also supposed to work on round and whip worms so counts as a deworming for him. I also asked specifically if this shot would be too much since he just had the chewables... she replied no.
> 
> He also got his rabies shot. I kinda jokingly asked her if he'd need to be tested for rabies before she could give him that shot... she replied no, to which I said, oh, well that's good, he'd be about useless without a brain...  Perhaps that wasn't such a good exchange looking back...
> 
> Mel was a champ and lived up to his name. Such a laid back (Mellow) great pup  When we got home he didn't even think about exploring... when he came down out of the back seat of the truck he headed straight for the door into the air conditioned house and crashed out on the nice cool wood floor.   He's spent most of the afternoon recouping from the arduous encounter/evolution.  He was a huge hit with the staff and other customers. One lady actually took pictures of him to show her husband.



Eprinex pour on according to Farad has no withholding if used as labeled at dosage labeled.... unfortunately Longrange although has the main ingredient is given differently and formulated differently so I think they are saying no withholding based on Eprinex pour on -  if meat with LR is 48 days (i think that is what it said) I am with you in withholding for a month to be on the safe side.

I personally would not feed the milk to the goats or the dog. Mel just had a shot that last for 6 months (which I personally am not a fan of but that is another issue all together) and this is in a similar class of drug so that IMO is risky since you really don't know what is coming through that milk.

It takes time to build a relationship with a vet and it is ok to ask questions and present info especially if there is confusion or contradiction in application.
Sign up for any extension classes you can find on parasite control- usually they will do FAMACHA certification as well. Card in hand is far better then just looking at inner eyelid membrane with nothing to compare to. Many say they don't need the card but human nature is to see the 3 colors on the card not the 5.
When we are teaching a class or consulting we ask the people to evaluate without the card. Then we use the card. When they look at the card most (9 out of 10) will always go one level higher than what is really showing. Often when a goat is at a D-4 they think the goat is ok because they see pink but have nothing to really compare the shade of pink to and they do nothing. That shade is one step above the near death white! Rainy and humid times you want to check more often. Blooms happen quickly. 

Glad Mel was a good boy. Callie and D always walked into the vets office like they own the joint! Blue does it too! Pete is always great with the vets but doesn't act like he owns it. 
Even when Callie was so sick and dying she was cool as a cucumber with being there and the staff. Best dog we've ever owned. Boy do I miss her - everyday.


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## Bruce

goatgurl said:


> and @greybeard is right, fat does make fat. sugar and starch are worse culprits


I didn't mean to say that eating fat doesn't create fat in one's body but that it generally isn't the culprit for people's weight problems. As you noted, sugar, carbs and starches are the bigger problem - because they are generally eaten in larger quantities by most people, at least in the USA.

I think for most people, cutting sugar/starch/carb intake by 10% will go much farther than cutting fat intake by 10%. Seems like every few years what is considered "good" or "bad" changes. Eggs are good, eggs are bad, eggs are good again. Butter is good, butter is bad, use margarine instead. Oops, butter isn't bad but partially hydrogenated fat (margarine) IS bad. I think that in general, cutting processed foods (yeah, the easy to make breakfast, lunch and dinner things plus tasty snacks in bags!) is the best bet.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Eggs are good, eggs are bad, eggs are good again. Butter is good, butter is bad, use margarine instead. Oops, butter isn't bad but partially hydrogenated fat (margarine) IS bad.


Most of that is in regards to heart disease/cholesterol, and not obesity.

Anything with calories, including excess protein, that is not burned off can and often does turn to stored fat.


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## Mike CHS

We had neighbors over for dinner this afternoon and I served smoked beef and pork ribs.  I would think both of those would qualify as detrimental to lean diets.


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## Bruce

Pasture raised? From my reading it is far healthier than grain pumped, er finished, animals.


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## Mike CHS

The steer had a bunch of corn so I can't claim pasture raised.


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## Latestarter

Thanks for all your input/info/expertise SBC. Truly appreciated! Hope you're feeling well.

Sure you can Mike... pasture raised and grain/corn finished   Sounds like an ideal way to go to me... most growth put on by pasture then a little marbling added at the end for flavor enhancement. yum! Speaking of which, have you had a chance to grill up any of those rib eyes yet? You reported on the porterhouses...  I can only imagine how good they must be...

GG I didn't have them fecal checked when I brought them home  I figured I'd wait a bit (couple of weeks) till after Dot had her kid, then time just flew past. I've got it scheduled ongoing from this point on. Next fecal will be next week. I'm going to do some calling around and see if I can find a vet who does actual EPGs. I need to have some sort of "baseline" for them so I can tell what's actually happening.  I think I'm going to hold off on feeder pigs for a bit...

Trimmed hooves last night as we had rain most of yesterday afternoon. Ground is still wet from that and dew... back pasture needs mowing... again  Just got through cutting down some small sweet gum trees for the goats. They'd already had their morning grain and now they're out there, happy as goats with fresh produce   After just 20 minutes outside (milking/feeding/lumber jacking) I came in soaked in sweat. Only 20% slight chance of poss rain/T-storms today but the humidity has to be in the 85%+ range right now and it's clouding up. Looked at the weather radar and there's an E/W line of strong T-storms on the east 1/2 of the LA/AR border stretching into MS... Nothing showing over/near me (yet?).


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## OneFineAcre

Bruce said:


> Pasture raised? From my reading it is far healthier than grain pumped, er finished, animals.


But far less tasty
The two steers in my yard have been  grain finished


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Pasture raised? From my reading it is far healthier than grain pumped, er finished, animals.



Almost all US beef is 'pasture' or grass raised. 
Then, finished on grain or some other feed. 

I've had some beef that was "100% certified grass raised and grass finished".
I didn't care much for it, especially that yellow fat.


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## Mike CHS

We have had several of the beef cuts and they have all been awesome.  I slow cooked some of the beef ribs yesterday along with some pork ribs and the company we had left full and then some.  I cooked up a bunch of meatballs for freezer meals and even the ground beef is awesome.


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## goatgurl

well @Latestarter seems like you've got it under control now and that's what's important.  just a shame about all that milk wasted.  oh well, another life's lesson.  they never end. 
@Mike CHS in all the years I've raised beef for my personal use I raise them on grass with a scoop of feed now and then to keep them friendly and that was it.  butchered them late summer/early fall at about 18 months of age and the meat has always been really good and tender.  as @greybeard said most store bought beef is finished in a feed lot.  ahh no thanks.


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## Latestarter

So we had some rather flashy T-storms light off here around 2am this morning that lasted about an hour an 1/2. Then they fired back up around 7ish and hung around for another couple of hours. Managed to get Dot milked out just as a round of rain started. So they got their grain inside the hoop house this morning (They get fed after milking). The day turned out pretty hot and sunny as well as humid. After CC got her 2pm feeding, I staked Dot and Bang out on some fresh greens. April didn't want to leave the pen. So they both got several hours out eating fresh pasture salad.

Heard from my son and he and his family will be arriving here around the 15th and staying till the end of the month   Will be good to have them all here. He's looking forward to physical farm chores and I'm looking forward to having plenty of them for him  So now I have to get this place cleaned up and put in good order before they arrive.   Also have to do some grocery shopping and get stocked up for the grands. 

Aside from that, things are pretty much status quo. Hope y'all have a great Independence Day celebration, in whatever way you celebrate. Please be careful and don't get hurt!


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## Baymule

That's great news about your son and family! I know you will have fencing material in his hands!  Tomorrow we are staying home, inviting some neighbors over and staying off the roads. You stay safe too!


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## CntryBoy777

We got .7" of rain yesterday morning here, but nothing after that. Sure glad ya have some help and company for the last half of the month, maybe ya can have some good progress made there to make things a bit easier for the operation. I know ya will enjoy having the grands there. The only plans we have is to avoid the Heat. Hope ya have a good one, too.


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## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> He's looking forward to physical farm chores and I'm looking forward to having plenty of them for him



Send him HERE!!!!!        You need to share him   


Today -- I'm home and Soooooo need to clean house & mow fields....right now it's like TX, hot & humid.   There's a hard choice here, as I'd rather sweat than clean house.    If I could get that darned bushog connected by myself, it would be a decision made!   Pasture is great until you can't get it eaten or cut.    (LS problem, also)   

Went to repair shop about the tiller that won't start (cord won't pull all the way) and he gave me some info on what would be the most likely thing to check based on my explanation --- will try what he suggested.  Hope it helps, don't need yet another repair bill and it's always something       

Happy 4th to everyone.


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## Latestarter

Ah, what a day... started out when I went to feed this morning and Mel met me. He generally comes in while I get everything ready but it rained again very early this morning and he wasn't on the covered deck when I looked out. So I wanted to actually go outside and check him for mud before I let him in. When he came up, the side he presented looked clean, as did his paws... Next thing you know he turns around and rubs his wet, red, mud covered backside/flank all over my fresh, clean (last of that type) jeans  So after finishing the chores, I cornered him and took the hose to him to wash all that mud out of his coat. Man, wasn't THAT a challenge... He is worse than the goats when it comes to getting wet, I swear... But I got it done. It has taken most of the day for his coat to fully dry out, even with toweling him off when I was done.

So came inside and stripped down to wash all my jeans as well as the other dirty work clothes that had accumulated. After the first wash, I go to put everything in the dryer and when I open the lid, there's dried/caked soap all over the wash tub wall    So I add a couple more articles, a little more soap, start the fill cycle, and wash the soap off the tub and make sure all the new will be fully mixed in the water. So I'm sitting in my recliner (in my bed-time shorts) watching TV & waiting for the washer to finish when I hear the sound of running water... Now THAT'S weird... OH crap! 

Run to the laundry room and see a wall of water coming around the corner to join me Well, seems the drain hose worked its way up out of the drain pipe and with the rinse cycle, started pumping all that water out on to the floor... About 1/2 the tub, maybe 10 gallons of water, on the floor  So I open the back door and start using a bath towel to drag the water over and out. Finally get the water cleaned up best I can, and I pulled the dryer out to dry underneath/behind it. (couldn't move the washer as it was full of water) Well, of course the dryer vent pipe fell off. First from the back of the dryer, then from the wall. And after several attempts to get it reconnected and the dryer pushed back in, I finally achieved that goal. The pipe kept falling off as soon as I'd move the dryer. And there's not enough room between machines that I could push it 1/2 way in then attach the pipe, and get myself extracted. Oh to be young, thin and limber again...

So I've been looking at the goats, like I always do when I'm with them, and April has always been a little chunky... I thought she was just benefiting from the grain and feed mix because she isn't lactating. But lately, it appears that she is developing an udder  Tonight when I got a good clear look at her from directly behind, she is definitely growing an udder, and she appears to be "thicker" through the middle than previously...  SO @goatgurl what say you? Is there any chance that April might be in a kiddly way? I mean I brought them here April 16th, so it's been almost 3 months. Could she have gotten with the buck in late February or March some time? She does have meat goat in her, so technically it's possible that she could be a year round breeder... So maybe I'll be having another birthing this year some time between now and mid September?   Based on udder development, more likely between now and mid August...

Mini, I wish I HAD a bush hog (& tractor to pull it of course). Why is it so difficult to hook up? Maybe you should just leave it hooked up? I hope you get the tiller figured out and working.


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## Mini Horses

If you lived here abouts I'd loan it to you!   I can connect all except the darn PTO.  The sleeve is so, so SO hard to pull up onto it, then you have to push in a button, hold it in while you put it onto the last 2".   Now, I'm an old lady and that is NOT my cup of tea!!  Not about balance, level or anything but muscle.  It sure doesn't respond to a good cussing -- I've used that!!!! 

Once it is on, it generally stays for most of Spring/Summer but, If I need to disc or grade, or use the backhoe, it hooks to that back side & hydraulics there...other implements there to 3 prong, lift, etc.   Was on all winter & I use the backhoe to help pull fence as I can lift, drop, sideways pull, etc.  Works nice....you will wish you had it there next week.  LOL  So, time to switch out.  It's the only piece I cannot connect myself.  Hate it.

Sorry about your flood!


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## frustratedearthmother

It's soooo HARD to connect the stoopid mower.  It takes DH and I together to connect ours - or my son to do it alone in half the time it takes DH and I to do it ourselves - while giving us that "look".   I try to leave mine connected until it's time to take it off and put on the round bale mover thingy.

@Latestarter - Sorry you had such "a day".  I walked into the laundry room this morning to a wet rug.  DH washed sheets yesterday ( I know - he' wonderful) and it got off balance and knocked the drain hose out of the pipe.   Must have been the day for it...ugh.

Hope your gal is bred!!


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## CntryBoy777

Oh No!!....some duct tape oughta hold the drain hose in the pipe, and I'm sure we shared the same vocabulary while attempting to attach the lint hose, too. I bet Mel had told the goats to watch him get ya........it seems that animals do that to us. I guess April doesn't want ya to get out of practice, so she is doing her part in reinforcing the lessons learned.....ya just got started and that "Goat Math" is getting a jump on ya....


----------



## OneFineAcre

You are starting to remind me of bad luck Shleprock 
I think that's from the Flinstones


----------



## Baymule

Sorry, but I am laughing....I got a good visual of you and your muddy dog, spewing washer and floppy dryer hose.....


----------



## Devonviolet

Wow! What a day you had!  Sorry about all that water on your floor. What a mess!  

And wasn't that nice of Mel to hide the mud until it was too late? 

Interesting about April.  It sure sounds like she spent some productive time with Choco before she went with you.    Ah yes! Goat math at its finest!


----------



## Bruce

I've had the washer drain hose thing as well. So sorry to hear you did! Tied it down good after that. And I don't know WHY they can't make dryers with the vent up in the TOP corner where a person MIGHT be able to get to it! For the prior house I bought wheels for the dryer. Don't know what it is really called but basically an adjustable length flat metal surface with rollers on each end. Get the pair and get the dryer up on them. At least then you can roll the dryer rather than trying to shove it. But you still need to have a couple of feet of space to the side to access the stupid hose.


----------



## Latestarter

Hmmm I don't really think my luck is any worse than most other folks... I KNOW it isn't as good as some folks (no winning jackpot lottery ticket yet). I'm sure most of y'all out there have plenty of gripes and grumbles, but just move on past them and don't share.   Stuff happens... some times one thing after another and sometimes you catch a break waiting on the next "thing". Only real PITA was the washer hose and clean up... the rest of it was just "stuff happens".

Bruce, the dryer is no issue to move as it's very light... the issue is working space. Having the exhaust up top might help quite a bit.

Sorry Mini and Fem, that your mower is so difficult to attach. I'm sure when the time comes I'll most likely share the same issues since I have one (sometimes two) bad hand/wrist. no strength/grip. aging sucks.

So woke up to a gust front and it's now raining again with thunder in the distance. Radar shows it will be over me for the next hour or so. It beat me to goat chores so they're gonna have to wait. I'm sure they'll still be there for me when this passes.


----------



## Devonviolet

We've had rain for the past half hour.  Started getting really dark. Then strong winds. Then hazy, like we were in the clouds. Satellite signal lost. Thunder. Then torrential downpour.  It's been raining since.

Same here . . . Animals will have to wait to get fed.


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## CntryBoy777

That's the way I see it too, Joe...."Life" is just facing the challenges that the day presents....and some only share the Good "Highlights" of their day, and not the fiasco it took to get to it.....
If one can't laugh at theirself, they are taking "Life" way too seriously.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I co-miserate on trying to find a good vet. I still havnt found one not for goats and sheep, i use one when i have to but they mostly just give them what i tell them to give, then charge me.

I quit taking my dogs to the vet long ago. Between spring shots, rabies shots, heartworms meds, general check-up,  teeth cleaning, random tests for whatever...i finally said nope i'm done. I give all the dogs a 7-way shot every other year, i give my own rabies shots every 3 yrs, i give oral ivermec for heartworms twice a year..since we have winter here and you only need to treat every 3 months of "warm" weather, I order and give them flea and tick once a year if i see a problem. The big dogs get teeth brushed and all dogs get denta stixs and other teeth cleaning toys. Last time i took my 13yr old chi mix in because she had some fatty tumors, the vet insisted on testing for everything under the sun and she came out no problems, no heartworm nothing.

So yeah i take everything any vet says with a grain of salt esp those who look at your dog for 3-5 minutes and then try to charge you $200 for doing nothing. I really hope your able to find a really good vet close to you!

Luckily it looks like it will not rain today which would be nice since we got 4 more inches of rain in june then we normally get. Poor live stock have not been taking it well.


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## Bruce

Think of it this way @Latestarter, if we didn't have challenges, life would be boring! When our cats are playing with something they intentionally make it harder to get to the toy. No fun if it is just sitting out there in the open.

I myself was ECSTATIC when I was finishing my shower this morning and the water seemed to be getting cooler. We have an on-demand water heater with a 12 gallon 110V electric heater "downstream". Should be able to have the same temp water all day and night until the propane runs out. But nope, when I went down to the basement to check, it had kicked a code ... 2nd time in about a week Yep, I sure was excited about that!  I COULD have gone to the grocery store as planned but instead I got to deal with a challenge! I cleaned the air and water inlet screens hoping that might help (though I'm dubious since the code seems to be related to flame loss, ignition or something). DD2 was equally excited when I told her she'd have to put off her shower for a bit. Especially since it was she (of the horribly long showers) who only made it through washing her hair the last time this happened.



Latestarter said:


> Sorry Mini and Fem, that your mower is so difficult to attach. I'm sure when the time comes I'll most likely share the same issues since I have one (sometimes two) bad hand/wrist. no strength/grip. aging sucks.


OR! Like the difference between the deck belt tensioning process between your mower and mine, now you know to look at such things when you do buy that tractor. Maybe some make it easier to put attachments on and connect them to the PTO 



Devonviolet said:


> It's been raining since.


Seems everyone is getting a lot more rain than normal so far this year, I think we are all going to drown!



misfitmorgan said:


> i give oral ivermec for heartworms twice a year..since we have winter here and you only need to treat every 3 months of "warm" weather


Ran into this some months ago:
_"The lifecycle of the nematode involves six stages, and a dog can get infected with heartworm only if two of these stages are fully completed inside the body of the mosquito, and those stages can only be completed inside the body of the mosquito if the temperature stays above 57 degrees for at least 45 days straight, both day and night. If the temperature drops below 57 degrees even once during that 45-day period, the lifecycle of the nematode is broken, and heartworm cannot be transmitted to your dog."_
https://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/05/billion-dollar-heartworm-scam.html

I checked the temps for last summer on Accuweather. There was not a single 45 day period here where the temps didn't go below 57F at least twice. So, in theory and if he is right, the only dog in Vermont that would test positive for heartworm would be one that went south for the winter and picked it up there. I know someone that lives in Wyoming that expected and wanted heartworm treatment for her dog when she moved from an area where they were prevalent. The vet wouldn't do it so my friend asked for a test. It came back negative. Asked again the next year, again negative. OK, she's figured out the vet knew what he was talking about


----------



## misfitmorgan

Bruce said:


> Ran into this some months ago:
> _"The lifecycle of the nematode involves six stages, and a dog can get infected with heartworm only if two of these stages are fully completed inside the body of the mosquito, and those stages can only be completed inside the body of the mosquito if the temperature stays above 57 degrees for at least 45 days straight, both day and night. If the temperature drops below 57 degrees even once during that 45-day period, the lifecycle of the nematode is broken, and heartworm cannot be transmitted to your dog."_
> https://terriermandotcom.blogspot.com/2008/05/billion-dollar-heartworm-scam.html
> 
> I checked the temps for last summer on Accuweather. There was not a single 45 day period here where the temps didn't go below 57F at least twice. So, in theory and if he is right, the only dog in Vermont that would test positive for heartworm would be one that went south for the winter and picked it up there. I know someone that lives in Wyoming that expected and wanted heartworm treatment for her dog when she moved from an area where they were prevalent. The vet wouldn't do it so my friend asked for a test. It came back negative. Asked again the next year, again negative. OK, she's figured out the vet knew what he was talking about



Yep so far this year they havnt been treated for heartworm because it hasnt been warm enough. Early on we had some ticks but since it has pretty much been cold no problem with them or fleas so no flea and tick yet this year either. All the dogs did get wormed though i saw signs of worms from 2 of them. Crazy weather here, besides the rain the temps havnt been right. We had some nights in june down to 39-40F.


----------



## Mini Horses

We have two fronts trying to hold the same territory.  So heat in 90s & high humidity....plus random showers "whenever" but, mostly late afternoons.  

It was hot enough that my DAIRY GOATS stood in the shower   Yep, wet goats.   Guess they finally figured rain is OK!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yep been very humid here too even with the rain and colder temps. Everything in my house feels damp....i hate it.


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## Baymule

We got a pop up hard rain today. I was picking tomatoes, sweating like a Lady of the Evening in Church, and here came a clap of thunder! In a few minutes it went from hotter than sticking my head in the oven on BROIL, to pouring down RAIN! So I canned those tomatoes.


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## Mini Horses

Baymule said:


> hotter than sticking my head in the oven on BROIL, to pouring down RAIN! So I canned those tomatoes.



  You go gal!!

Hot & humid is NOT good.......BUT, a couple months of that is better than 2' of snow on the ground for 6-7 months, any day!  That's just IMO  

My plants have green tomatoes on them.   Soon I will be eating HOME GROWN tomatoes again.   I'm so excited.


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## babsbag

OK, it is July and 102° and I have to ask...what is rain and what is a tomato? My plants that are supposed to have tomatoes on them are beautiful, lush, and green but no fruit. Perhaps too much goat manure or perhaps too hot. Either way, I have no tomatoes.


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## Mini Horses

No pollination?  And heat often prevents setting of fruit to some degree.  Chickens lay fewer eggs quite often during high heat spells.


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## Baymule

My chickens have closed up shop. I am getting half the eggs I normally do. @babsbag are your tomatoes blooming?


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## Mike CHS

Our tomatoes always slow down when the night temps stay fairly high but we haven't had the high temps you guys are having (yet).  I always start more tomatoes in June to get a decent fall crop and it's usually more than the earlier planting.


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## Mini Horses

Mike CHS said:


> always start more tomatoes in June to get a decent fall crop and it's usually more than the earlier planting.



And I'm going to pretend that my late  garden was just THAT -- preplanned....  Thanks for the reminder.   

Actually, in my area I can plant many things "late" and they do very well in our Fall temps.  2nd crops of the faster maturing items, etc.


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## babsbag

I can plant late too, we don't typically get our first frost until the middle of Nov. and Oct. can be as warm as May.  

@Baymule, there are a few blossoms. I will be buying some blossom set spray this weekend but  I think it is the heat. The plants look amazing.  I have one out there called Heat Master but I planted it late; hoping it can handle this weather.


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## misfitmorgan

We had a similar experience @Baymule  but we were loading hay on someones open top trailer....

That was the start of the severe thunderstorms last night, knocked out power to almost 150,000 people...including us...joy lol. Estimated restoration time is 11:30pm tomorrow night.


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## Bruce

So YOU caused the torrential rain by loading hay into an open top trailer?? I bet everyone around isn't saying "Thanks"  Next time use a trailer with a top.


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## misfitmorgan

Hey that is what the customer brought, who am I to argue?


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## Latestarter

So the CAE/CL/Johnes tests came back for the 3 adult goats (Thursday). Everything was negative except Bang; she got a "borderline" for CAE. There are no titer numbers provided on the report, just a "N" (negative), "BL" (borderline) or "P" (positive). I have called and left a VM and sent an Email to the company asking for them to please provide me with the actual test result numbers as that will determine if and when I retest Bang.  They want me to retest in 30-45 days, but if the numbers are low borderline, I'll wait 6 months and re-test. They (the lab) doesn't charge to retest a BL, but I'm sure the vet will to cover the blood draw and postage/shipping.

Man is it hot and humid here... 95 degrees and gotta be 85%+ humidity. 10 minutes outside and I'm soaked. I have to say though, after 10 minutes outside it's the perfect time to go grocery shopping... You're wet, stinky, and everybody keeps their distance   (made a note to self; Self, wait on shopping till after the sun sets and the temp drops!)  The past few days storms provided me with a little over an inch and a half of water. Supposed to be a chance of T-storms over the next 3-4 days. All the pastures need mowed, including the front one that I just did last Saturday   My tarp covered hay has developed rodents. They have chewed through the tarp on top of the hay (leaving holes for the rain to get in) to get at spilled grain particles on top of the tarp where I stack the feed bowls when not being used. So I took one of my mouse baits and placed it under the tarp near the grain barrels. Hope they're hungry  

I've seen quite a few black rat snakes around, only one large one, but none by the hay bales. Accidentally ran over a copperhead down the road a while back. The light and shadow on the road made it look like a stick and it wasn't moving. By the time I realized what it was it was too late to swerve to miss it and I ran right over its head. I saw it in the rear view flailing so stopped and backed up and finished it off then removed it from the road. It was a good sized snake, maybe 3 feet long and very thick through the body. Shame to kill it.

So just got a call from the lab and he said the statistical difference between the percentages of the high and low end of "BL" are really of no value... I explained that it had value to me as the low end I wouldn't worry about it and the high end I would. I explained that I'd retest in about 6 months for the "BL" but had planned on annually for the negatives just to establish an ongoing baseline & history. I asked what they actually charge for the testing and he said $8 for the first test, $7 for the 2nd and $5 for the third. So if I draw my own blood and send it in the tests I paid $35 for would only cost $20 + shipping. He told me there are lots of videos online that show how to draw blood, but since I have nobody to hold the goat for me, it would be hard to do myself. Since the re-test on a BL is free, I might check with the vet and see how much they'd charge me to do the retest through them and maybe do it in 45 days as recommended. Maybe I'll use Bang for "stick" practice and send it in myself. Won't SHE just be thrilled! 

Got a text from my son and his arrival date has changed a bit as he has an appointment he has to make on the 17th. So they'll leave after he's done with that. Still puts them here on the 18th. I'm OK with that. Started stocking up on groceries today for the grand's arrival   Good stuff like juice box drinks and pop tarts for breakfast  as well as other meal type stuff and snacks. Also got me another watermelon. The last one only lasted 4 days.   I cooked up a whole roast chicken Thursday evening, so I'll be munching on that for a couple of days. Other than that, same stuff, different day, life goes on. So I click to post this (Friday) and my internet isn't working... it's reloading.   Multiple resets and it's still down. Now Saturday morning and it's back up. Hope everyone has a great weekend.


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> So the CAE/CL/Johnes tests came back for the 3 adult goats (Thursday). Everything was negative except Bang; she got a "borderline" for CAE. There are no titer numbers provided on the report, just a "N" (negative), "BL" (borderline) or "P" (positive). I have called and left a VM and sent an Email to the company asking for them to please provide me with the actual test result numbers as that will determine if and when I retest Bang. They want me to retest in 30-45 days, but if the numbers are low borderline, I'll wait 6 months and re-test. They (the lab) doesn't charge to retest a BL, but I'm sure the vet will to cover the blood draw and postage/shipping.





Latestarter said:


> So just got a call from the lab and he said the statistical difference between the percentages of the high and low end of "BL" are really of no value... I explained that it had value to me as the low end I wouldn't worry about it and the high end I would. I explained that I'd retest in about 6 months for the "BL" but had planned on annually for the negatives just to establish an ongoing baseline & history.





Latestarter said:


> do it in 45 days as recommended.


The statistical difference when a BL comes up .... it doesn't matter if it is high end or low end because the numbers are only a few varying degrees.
The concern is if you retest and see she is truly BL.
BL now could be borderline but she may have been positive at kidding.

This happened to someone we know.
they purchased an 8 month old goat - the goat was coming from a "tested herd" but they didn't test for CL or Johnes
They tested the 8 month old goat and the CL results came back first- Neg so they were happy UNTIL they received the CAE results- POSITIVE
They called the breeder- breeder was very upset and perplexed
Come to find out the vet was NOT testing for CAE but TB/Brucellosis only
When they tested the dam she was "1" number lower than Positive meaning BL. But that was 8 months after kidding- which means she was positive when she kidded.
The whole herd got tested.
All were BL/POS and kids came out positive

Those numbers can rise during pregnancy/delivery so it can be an issue.
BL end up POS 

For example if the test cut off is 35 and 30 is borderline a 28 which is neg is still very close and with pregnancy can climb.
So if 30-34 is BL it really is insignificant... you are running the risk of CAE.
You can do prevention.

Wait the 30-45 days retest... but before you go to breed her test her again and look at those numbers if on the higher end retest 2 weeks before kidding because you may need to pull kid and heat treat all colostrum before feeding.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

CAE can pass in utero sometimes.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@Latestarter I would get the numbers on the other two does as well. If they are high I'd be very concerned. We always get the numbers on ours, thankfully we've never had a doe pop a BL or POS test but after seeing several others go through CAE unexpectedly we try to very cautious.

ETA- what test was this? AGID or cElisa? 
If she were my doe, I'd re-run the tests and do both the AGID and cElisa. And get the exact numbers back, don't just settle for a BL, +, or -


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## Mini Horses

SBC -- you mention both types -- do you consider Elisa "better"?

I have a (ADGA?) VA Lab about 20 miles from me and they will do the testing with samples dropped.   $6 ea for CAE & Johnes.   They list Elisa.  Just wondering.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> All the pastures need mowed, including the front one that I just did last Saturday


Once a week is pretty standard up here, actually for some of the faster growing areas, too long! Mowing need is less frequent if we hit a  long dry spell.


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## Latestarter

My neighbor keeps telling me that a lot of "retired" folks move to this area because there's a summer "dry" period where they don't need to mow. Well, I first came down here last Aug/September and it needed mowing and we're now into July and I need to mow... I'm wondering when and for how long this supposed "dry" period lasts... Had almost 2 hours of thunder and rain yesterday afternoon that started about 20 minutes after I was going to start mowing. I saw & heard it coming so didn't even bother starting the mower.  We got just under 1.5 inches. 40% chance of more this afternoon and there's a (relatively stationary w/very slow south movement) 120 mile long line of T-storms right NW of me over the Red River. I expect they'll get here just about the time the pasture is dry enough for me to start mowing 

GW, I believe the test was the Elisa... I doesn't actually say on the test paper but I believe that's what I saw on the order form. When I send off the next test I'll request both be run (if that option is available). The man at the test lab said the numbers were not available from the tests, just one of the three classifications. The % listed on the test results is 0-150%-N, 151-1990%-BL, and 2001%+-Positive. Maybe I'll see if there's some other lab around that I can use.

Just checked and I can drive to the TX A&M university Vet Lab  https://tvmdl.tamu.edu/ in College Station Tx in about 4 hours. They accept sample drop offs. Maybe I'll collect samples and have the vet here do the draw, pack everything in ice & water and drive there. They can do both tests and the cost is reasonable. I don't mind the drive. They take drop offs. I think I'll bring fecal samples and have them do EPG's as well. I'll give them a call tomorrow for further details.


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## Southern by choice

Mini Horses said:


> SBC -- you mention both types -- do you consider Elisa "better"?
> 
> I have a (ADGA?) VA Lab about 20 miles from me and they will do the testing with samples dropped.   $6 ea for CAE & Johnes.   They list Elisa.  Just wondering.


I'll defer to @Goat Whisperer as she mentioned it.
I know our lab will do AGID if the ELISA is positive.



Goat Whisperer said:


> @Latestarter I would get the numbers on the other two does as well. If they are high I'd be very concerned. We always get the numbers on ours, thankfully we've never had a doe pop a BL or POS test but after seeing several others go through CAE unexpectedly we try to very cautious.
> 
> ETA- what test was this? AGID or cElisa?
> If she were my doe, I'd re-run the tests and do both the AGID and cElisa. And get the exact numbers back, don't just settle for a BL, +, or -


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> The % listed on the test results is 0-150%-N, 151-1990%-BL, and 2001%+-Positive.


Um, and they said the actual value of BL is unimportant? With a range of over 1800%? When the Negative ENDS at 150% and the Positive STARTS at 2001%? Seems to me the actual value of BL would be VERY important! Is it 160% or 1980%?????

Seems everyone is wet so far this year. Perhaps there is a long dry period in an AVERAGE year. Not every year will be average  Hope it drys out enough so you can mow before the grass gets 3' high!


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## Latestarter

I must confess those percentages kinda confuse me as well. Not gonna worry about it too much though at the moment. I'll get the retest done down at TX A&M and I'm sure they'll explain it in detail if I ask. Since Bang & Dot are sisters and they were living together with April and all the other goats before I got them, and have been together here since, I'm pretty sure it was a false BL and should have been a negative. As long as they've been together I'd expect the others to be BL or positive as well if it were true. 

If it turns out she is in fact BL or worse, positive, then I'll have other issues as her twins are dam raised and that means I'll need to get CB & CM checked when they're over a year old and have to monitor them closely before I can consider breeding CB... Since CM is a wether, no big deal really there. I sure hope this is all an error. 

So after the 2pm CC bottle feeding I started mowing. 5 hours later I had between 1/3 and 1/2 the back pasture mowed. Had to stop to do evening goat chores. The grass is so tall/thick it was still quite wet at ground level. There were quite a few clouds around and when the mower wasn't running I thought I heard some distant thunder. Just looked at the radar and there are good sized storms around me in a "U" shape but nothing to the north and nothing threatening me directly. Hopefully I'll be able to finish the back pasture tomorrow. Then I'll move on to the front again.


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## CntryBoy777

We had a drop in humidity today and suppose to for tomorrow too. I got field#2 cut today and the road to the pond. I will be busy tomorrow, doing....cause temps and humidity is going up and the "Feels Like" is suppose to be triple digits. I sure hope those results are a false BL for ya and the rain stays away long enough to get caught up.


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## Mike CHS

Joe - I'm not sure how much land you have but do you have enough to have someone cut hay for you.  We do square bales in numbers enough to get us through winter this year and let the neighbor that cuts it have the rest in large round bales .  We only need about 60 bails and he gets the rest and last year we got 4 cuttings. I much prefer that over cutting fresh grass all winter.


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## Southern by choice

Yep, just retest and don't worry about it til then!
You don't have to wait a year for the kids. 6 months and they can be tested. I like 8 months myself but they say you can test at 6 months of age.

It is important to test yearly for CAE at least. I think many just don't understand this concept.
As a doe ages those numbers can go up. So when people say "the parents were clean" and "they came from a clean herd" that is great but when was that herd tested?
five years ago ? Once? 

You are learning and it is all good.


----------



## goatgurl

I kinda freaked out when I read about bang and her bl cae test.  the does that were tested last year were all negative and as you said dot and bang are litter sisters and dot was negative so i'm going to wait for the retest before I go to pieces.  wish I was closer so I could draw the blood for you.  i'll keep checking in and seeing how things go.  just so you know, the thought of her being positive just makes me sick.


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## Southern by choice

goatgurl said:


> I kinda freaked out when I read about bang and her bl cae test.  the does that were tested last year were all negative and as you said dot and bang are litter sisters and dot was negative so i'm going to wait for the retest before I go to pieces.  wish I was closer so I could draw the blood for you.  i'll keep checking in and seeing how things go.  just so you know, the thought of her being positive just makes me sick.


that's why i think it is an error too.... 
Also ( @goatgurl  ) just so you know- I was not referring to you about yearly testing... I should have said it as FYI for any reading the thread.
We see so many just devastated because they don't realize as a doe ages those numbers can go up.


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## babsbag

This is what the test results look like that I get from Sage Ag Labs. Very easy to understand
*
Cutoff* % Inhibition = 35 %                                                
*Positive Inhibition > 40 % *
Marginal Inhibition = 30 to 40 %     
Negative Inhibition < 30%

*Tube Number* *Animal ID* *% Inhibition in Test* *Status*
1                      RC                   2.0                                 Negative
3                      Trouble           8.0                                  Negative
5                      Moonpie          8.0                                 Negative
6                      Mango             2.0                                 Negative
9                      Misty               0.0                                 Negative


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## misfitmorgan

Hope it's just an error and everything turns out just fine. This reminded me of the time they took a blood sample and then called me back a week later and tried to tell me i had mono....i felt fine. I told them they were wrong, had to go in and have blood drawn again....called me 3 days later, no you dont have mono.....no kidding!

Turns out he lab messed up. I wouldn't worry to much, i think it would be odd for just one goat to be positive when she is full blood related to your other goat who is negative.

I traded a goat with another lady who tested yearly like we did. Both herds are CAE negitive. 4 months later she texted me and said "did you know she was CAE positive?" I told her no she is not re-test her, I don't know if she ever did. I do know that goats mother, aunt, full blood twin, and half siblings as well as the rest of the herd were negative at the next test.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> The grass is so tall/thick it was still quite wet at ground level.


Same here. I had DD2 mow the area outside the pond/barnyard (which was the original fenced area) a few days ago. She was mowing through "squish" in the low area that is closest to the pond on the other side of the old fence. It hasn't been dry long enough for that water to evaporate. It sure won't "perk" through the clay.


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## Mike CHS

I guess that's one advantage to not having any level ground as there is no standing water.


----------



## OneFineAcre

You need a tractor and a bush hog.


----------



## Bruce

Of course I do! And a landscape rake and a cultivator and a backhoe and ... oh, and money 

Mike, I have standing water on slopes! You would THINK it would run down to the natural wetland but NO! Gets stuck in the clay and grass.


----------



## Bruce

ALMOST done with the new horse fence on either side of the upper gates between the barns. Just need to get 8 or 10 1.25" screws I can put into the metal posts.

Left gate is open though usually that one is stationary, the right one is used 99% of the time unless I need to get the garden tractor down there.


The mess of fencing that was on either side of the posts before. The right side was 2x3 welded wire and didn't look too bad though it was on a 1/2" square metal post stuck as close to the big barn as I could get it. Not real structural. The left side was a mess of 2x3 welded and some chicken wire which managed to keep the chickens in but Merlin found it and came out. So I cobbled together a "fix" using a big piece of sheep and goat. Of course the chickens can get through that so I had to shove all the other fencing back in.


New 2x4 knotted horse fence 5' tall. I had a 2x2 piece of cedar that helped support a bean trellis at one time. I cut the cedar in half then ran it through the planer until it was 3/4" x 1 1/4" true. Marked where the wires hit and cut 1/8" x 1/4" deep grooves with the miter saw. Picture 1, Wire in grooves. Picture 2 Wood against post. Picture 3 View of the right side from the house side of the gate. Added benefit of this design is that the wood supports the part of the fencing that is taller than the post.
  

Great idea @CntryBoy777 , glad I thought of it


----------



## CntryBoy777

....and before ya know it @Bruce it'll be piling up on top of the ground all over the place.....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Just glad it worked out....looks Great, too!!...


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## Bruce

Oops!!!! I intended to put that last post in MY journal. Maybe moderator @Latestarter can move it???


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## Latestarter

I can Bruce, but it's not bothering me here.  If you still want it moved I'll move it along with the follow up comments. Let me know.

ETA: Since your journal had previous entries dealing with the above posts, I just went ahead and copied them over to your journal Bruce.


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## Baymule

Derailing threads is what we do! Leave it here!


----------



## Latestarter

So I started mowing early today... right about noon. Figured I'd try to get the entire back pasture finished. Stopped at gas refill time and did the CC bottle (~2:30) then back to it. Stopped right about 7pm as it was goat milking and feeding time and I was beat. Got another 1/3 done so I'll finish the final 1/3rd tomorrow. In addition I hope to get the 1 acre homestead grass mowed as well as the street swale and driveway. Having copses of trees is nice for the shade, but it inhibits the grass growing, allows the weeds to grow, they drop lots of branches that need to be moved so I can mow, and they are a PITA to mow around. I think I'll start eliminating most of them one at a time and feed the branches/leaves to the goats as I go, then burn what can't be cut/stacked/saved as fire wood.

Haven't had my shower yet... after goat duties I grilled up a rib eye for dinner, then came here. Mel already had his share and I'll give him the bone (a nice thick one) when he goes out for the night. When done here it will be shower time followed closely by some recliner operations accompanied by 1/2 a watermelon. 

So while doing the back fence line, I've been trying to push the jungle back behind the fence, and I actually located 2 more of my errant fence posts (on the other side of the fence) that had floated away in the flood earlier this year. I recovered one of them (a 4" x 6' cross support) but the other (a 6-7" x 8' fence post) is laying partially submerged in the stream bed.   I'm going to have to scale the barbed wire and climb down in to recover that one. A chore I'm definitely not looking forward to... Mosquitoes, chiggers, ticks, and possible poisonous snakes... <sigh> Maybe tomorrow morning after goat chores. I don't have any wading boots 

@goatgurl I had asked once before but you may have missed it... April is developing an udder and looking like she's growing an internal barrel. Is there any possibility that she got bred before I got her?  She's always been "solid" and "chunkier" than the other girls, but I attributed that to her meat goat side. But now she's really pushed out on both sides, as well as the udder development. After she's eaten, she's bigger on the right side than the left  It really looks like a baby belly... Personally, I'm hoping for twins  I'll try to get some pics tomorrow to post for y'all to peruse.


----------



## goatgurl

I forgot to say anything about april having a little starter pack udder.  unless she and choco got together without my knowing it there just isn't any way she could be bred.  and if you'll remember he was behind 5 foot tall  2x4  welded panels and hasn't gotten over it in 2 or 3 years.  I have two yearlings that are making little preciouses udders too.  that would be my guess with april.    would be nice for you if she did kid so you would have winter milk.  as my little mama used to say "time will tell".


----------



## CntryBoy777

Does the post really cost that much?.....personally, I'd just get another one and save the hassel....but, if ya must....get a chain wrapped around the end and use the pickup to pull it out.....use a stick and beat the bank where you'll be stepping to and if there is water there splash it along the bank....that'll move the snakes along....they don't defend territory, so they  won't come back at ya.....be Careful!!


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## Bruce

Dang, Fred beat me to it again! Personally I don't think a single post is worth the pain and agony of going over a barb wire fence into water that potentially has a boot sucking bottom. Then there are the _Mosquitoes, chiggers, ticks, and possible poisonous snakes_. Nope, unless there are more posts back there, save yourself!



Latestarter said:


> So I started mowing early today... right about noon.


Um, not Army, eh? Don't they figure you should get 4 hours in by 8 AM?


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I can Bruce, but it's not bothering me here.  If you still want it moved I'll move it along with the follow up comments. Let me know.
> 
> ETA: Since your journal had previous entries dealing with the above posts, I just went ahead and copied them over to your journal Bruce.


Thanks Joe. Heck I don't put much over there anyway. Have to keep it "alive"!


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## CntryBoy777

Bruce said:


> Dang, Fred beat me to it again! Personally I don't think a single post is worth the pain and agony of going over a barb wire fence into water that potentially has a boot sucking bottom. Then there are the _Mosquitoes, chiggers, ticks, and possible poisonous snakes_. Nope, unless there are more posts back there, save yourself!
> 
> 
> Um, not Army, eh? Don't they figure you should get 4 hours in by 8 AM?


We have something we refer to here in the south as Dew and this time of year it is usually pretty heavy in the mornings, otherwise being USN it would have been done by noon....it is a built in "Delay" that can't be avoided....


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## Bruce

Actually we have that as well. It is the thing that somewhat saves us during dry spells. Enough moisture squeezed out of the air overnight to help keep the grass from dying (too much). Doesn't fill the pond though. It looked like this in August a few years ago (he says while hijacking LS's thread yet again)

 

That, I think, is when the grasses/rushes/whatever got started in the area on the left.


----------



## Latestarter

I remember that pond pic from an ancient post Bruce, and my thought then was that it's past time that thing was "dredged"... I mean being X-Navy and all, it needs to be deep enough for boat dockage  At least get rid of all the quicksand/goop/sludge that's built up over the actual hard clay bottom. Might even make it deep/clean enough to swim in    Pretty sure the fish will thank you as well. 

Yeah, we have really heavy dew here in the morning... all that humidity from the day before condenses out overnight. When the grass is high, there's no way I can mow it before noon (where there's direct sun to dry it) or late afternoon when in the shade. No surprise, come 9:00, it's right back to being humid again. I milk Dot right about 8am every morning and by the time I'm done (like15, maybe 20 minutes), I have beads of sweat running down me. And really, it's NOT strenuous work... I mean kneeling on one knee and squeezing a teat repeatedly while holding the collection bowl in the other hand. Doesn't get much more strenuous than that!  

After milking, I have to stand food bowl guard duty (another real strenuous, sweat building activity)... I place all three on the ground in a triangle, then stand basically in the middle so I can keep each pair to their respective bowl. If I don't do that, then Bang goes from bowl to bowl head butting and running the others and it turns in to a "ring around the rosy" kinda thing with goats running through and tipping over feed bowls and the like. So much easier to be the bully in the pen and keep them all in line. Bang and April get one bowl (with the most grain, and of course first), Dot and CC get a bowl with about 1/2 that amount (& second to be fed), and then CB & CM get their own bowl with about 1/3 or 1/4 the amount. They eat the slowest, so if any of the adults run out of the "good stuff" in their bowl, they want to move over to someone else's to see if they have any "good stuff" left in theirs.   So I redirect them back to their own bowl until they finish all of that food. Once I'm sure the kids have had enough to eat, I carry the milk up to the house to start filtering and leave them to fend for themselves. After filtering I'm back down there to bottle feed CC. Then to make sure I've got a good sweat going, if I'm in the mood, I'll go get the chain saw and cut them some tree limbs.

The post isn't all that expensive in the grand scheme of things... I think it cost me like $17 or $18 bucks. I just hate to spend money on something and then watch it "float away" when I can relatively easily (well, with a little effort) recover the item and put it to use. Even after I'm done with the initial fence, there are many more posts and much more fencing that needs to be done. I'm not as limber as I once was, but I'm pretty sure I can get over/through/under the barbed wire and I'll connect a ratchet strap to it and then drag it out with the truck or lawn tractor. 

I've been here for 9 months now and I've never been on the other side of that back fence. I have almost 10 acres of woods back there that I own and I've never been back there.  If not soon, then some time this fall after the leaves are down (& bugs are gone, snakes in hibernation), I want to get back there and drive T-posts at the corners of the property, before the surveyors tape markers are lost/gone due to weather and sun light. There are supposed to be iron pins, but they'll be pretty difficult to locate without the tape markers. I'd also like to clear a "fire lane" around the inside border so eventually I can fence it and maintain the fencing.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I mean being X-Navy and all, it needs to be deep enough for boat dockage


 Given the size of the pond, even a canoe would be a joke!! I was surprised there were any fish left alive after the pond got that low. Doesn't seem to be a big deep hole where there is water in that picture, at least not so far as I can tell looking at it with the sun "just right". Therefore I also don't know how the fish and frogs (and the snapping turtle) manage to survive the winters. Obviously it isn't real deep even when full so it must freeze all the way down to the bottom. I would like to dredge it but I don't have the equipment. And I don't know where the ledge that you can see closest to the camera in that picture MAY stop. Could be I can't get more than a foot or so of muck. OR maybe I could get a good deep area, no way to know without digging. I tried some when it was dry, heavy lifting I tell you. I didn't get far. 

I agree I would not want to "lose" that post. I also don't think I would want to try to cross, in any fashion, barb wire. Since you've not been behind the fence, I think it is time to put a gate in it. And a good place to put it would be RIGHT in front of where that post is on the other side  Barring that, any reason to NOT wait until fall to go get it when, at least, the nasties won't be around?


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## Latestarter

Biggest potential issue would be prolonged heavy rain... that's what put the posts in the stream to begin with   We got over 6 inches in the span of a day and the stream went a good 2-3 feet over the bank, which caught up all the prepositioned posts and floated them away. None are within flood reach now unless it's time for an ark. I do want to put a gate back there but need to reconnoiter the other side of the fence line and the stream to see where would be the best place to put a bridge across. That's where I'll line the gate up with. Worse come to worse, I could cut the barbed wire fencing close to that spot and just drop it. No animals back there to escape and there are rolls of BW around here that I can always patch it later if the need arises.

Earlier I wanted to report a dog "injury" and kinda got sidetracked. If you recall I had that steak last night and gave that nice bone to Mel when he went out for the night. Well, this morning when I got up and went to let him in, he was standing at the bottom of the deck stairs (strange), covered in mud, all over his chest, front paws/legs, and muzzle, and he was drooling and there was drool all over the deck and stairs. When he saw me he bolted to the back door wanting in but there was no way I was letting all that mess into the house so I went out with him expecting to clean him up before he could come in. He was chewing/biting on what I assumed was the bone and I could hear his teeth hitting it each time he closed his mouth. I tried to take it from him and found it wedged across his upper jaw, jammed between the teeth on either side.

That explained the drooling and the muddy mess as he was trying to dislodge it. I got him to let me access his mouth and I couldn't budge it. His continuous chomping had wedged that bone in tight. So I made him stay and went inside and got a pair of water pump pliers. When I came back out I told him what I needed to do and asked him to be calm for me. He sat right still (good dog!) and let me open his mouth and grab that bone with the pliers. A good strong downward pull and I popped it right out. Man was he relieved (so was I!). So then I called him down on to the walk and he actually stood still and let me hose all that mud off him (good dog!). When he thought he was clean enough, he made a break for the back deck. I dried him off best I could and he was mighty happy to come inside. I've checked his upper jaw, teeth and gums and there's no damage, blood or bruising. Silly dog! I think animals intentionally try to worry their owners to see how much we care for them. 

So I went out at lunch time, ~noon, as I needed to refill the gas jugs and wanted to pay my water bill. I stopped at the Chinese buffet for lunch while out. Got back home ~2:30 and did the CC bottle feed and bucket of cereal snacks for the others (they are sooo spoiled). After feeding I decided to take a mowing break today. It is just stifling hot out there. I think it says it's up around 97 degrees. There's no real breeze and I just am not up to sweating off 5 pounds today. Back to it tomorrow.


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## Goat Whisperer

Aww poor Mel!  Hate it when that happens.

Wanted to pop on and just say that almost all our lamancha yearlings get precocious udders. She could also be a little more filled out, a lot of yearlings get on the chubby side because they aren't working yet. 
Our meat goats have also gotten precocious udders too. 

@Mini Horses in regards to your question, I will try to answer in another thread when I can. But we do the cElisa


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## Bruce

Sure is great that he is Mel(low)  Super glad it was only stuck and not being forced into his cheeks or palate!

I think you deserved a mowing break, especially if it isn't going to rain tomorrow. No need to kill yourself. Our temps are nearly 20°lower than yours though with 80% humidity it is mighty uncomfortable anyway. I can only guess how bad it must be for you.


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## Mike CHS

I sometime think dogs think if they can get it in their mouth they can swallow it.  Glad you got it out.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure glad it all worked out with Mel.....and "Rome wasn't built in a day".....so, don't think ya have to cut it all in a day....it is better to whittle at it 2-3hrs for a couple of days in this heat for sure. I'm down to 180lbs....so, I understand the sweat factor too.....tonite when I came in from the strenuous task of tending to the ducks....my clothes were drenched and went straight to the washer. The good thing about being 180 is I get to wake up the "Eating Monster" that has been sleeping for a while.....


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## Baymule

I find it hard to believe that you own another 10 acres across the creek that you have never set foot on. You and @Bruce act like crawling through a barbed wire fence is a big deal. That is just a part of country living. Haha, I'm wearing a pair of jeans right now that has "bob wahr" holes in them. Go crawl through the fence, cross the creek, and go poke around on your land.

I would definitely retrieve the post from the creek. You can drag it back to dry land with your lawn mower.

Glad that you were able to pry the bone from Mel's mouth. That had to be a scary moment. He is such a big sweetie, he trusted you to make everything alright.


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## frustratedearthmother

I'm with Bay on this one, lol.  Push one wire down, push the other wire up and squeeze through.  Easy Peasy!  Us Texas gals grew up doing that.  If ya don't think ya'll fit - then lay a saddle blanket across the top one and grab a tool box, or a saddle, or a chunk of wood and step over. 

I'd rescue the fence post too...hate paying for something I don't get to use.


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## Bruce

I'm a city boy! Rusty barbed wire doesn't sound like something I want to get snagged on. Plus, I suspect "squeezing through" depends on how loose the wire is, how far apart the strands are and how big a body one is trying to get to the other side. 

The saddle blanket on the top wire sounds like a better plan assuming the posts can take the load. Wonder where Joe can get one. I have one, came with the barn. LOTS of odds and ends came with the barn. But the only barb wire fencing I've found is so old it is already down pretty much everywhere I've seen it. Just remnants on trees and such.


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## Baymule




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## Mini Horses

Here's MY take on the 10 acres to wander thru --

I could do the barbed wire, cross the creek ... no problem!  BUT I am NOT going to venture into snake territory!!!!!!

If you haven't seen it thus far, it can sure wait until you TX guys get your "two weeks" of winter


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## goatgurl

ya know if you are going to replace the fence any way just cut the barbed wire and walk thru that way you don't have to worry about harming any anatomical parts and awww come on @Mini Horses whats a snake or two between friends.  kind of like Russian roulette,  never know what kind is going to rear its ugly head.  gives one pause to reflect, i'd probably pass on the snake hunt myself until at least the first week of winter.  by the second week they are starting to wake up and wander around again.


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## Goat Whisperer

I'd wear high boots and check it out 

Snakes have never deterred me, just watch your step!


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## OneFineAcre

You need to go in there and figure out where the deer stand is going.


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## animalmom

@OneFineAcre, you are such a practical man!


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## Bruce

Good point OFA! Joe has a lot to do.


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## Baymule

OneFineAcre said:


> You need to go in there and figure out where the deer stand is going.


He can put it at the back of his pasture in front of the creek, deer play there and he wouldn't have to swim the creek, fight alligators, club snakes, shoot rabid raccoons, crawl through that terrible barbed wire and snag his pants(thus exposing himself because he says he goes "commando") and scaring off all the deer.


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## Latestarter

True enough... I'll get my license then just wait for them to come out in the pasture/field.  Easy pickins'


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## CntryBoy777

I told Joyce that one thing is for sure....we will never go hungry here.....just sit on the porch and wait to see what shows up for Dinner.....squirrel, dove, turkey, deer, or fish...may even have to try some BBQ coon....never leave the house....except to gather or in the case of fish, catch em...


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Almost all US beef is 'pasture' or grass raised.
> Then, finished on grain or some other feed.
> 
> I've had some beef that was "100% certified grass raised and grass finished".
> I didn't care much for it, especially that yellow fat.


I asked Farmer Brown (yeah, for real) if the Porterhouse I bought 2 weeks ago was grain finished or not. Their banner says "grass fed". He said no, they don't grain their animals at all, grass only. They slaughter at about 1,000 pounds, 1.5 years of age. Buys 500 pounders late summer, slaughters the following fall. Cheaper to carry smaller animals through the winter though they are growing all the time. 

There was no yellow fat on this steak and it was nicely marbled, very tasty. He did say the meat can taste different depending on what is growing in the pasture but he's been at it for 15 years and has worked out all the non "desirables" that can lend an "off" taste.


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## Latestarter

So I wanted to do an oil/filter change and replace the cutting blades on the lawn tractor. Bought it at Lowes so figured they'd have the filter and blades. They had the filter but didn't have the right blades. I checked online before I went to make sure I got the right item and there are 2 sets of blades that state they are for 50" decks, but the reviews stated multiple times that they do NOT fit the 50" riding mower, only the zero turn mower. They are 1/2" too long. Of course these are the 2 sets of blades that Lowes carries.   So just on a whim I stopped at Home Depot and though they don't carry Troybilt, they do carry cub cadet and their blades are an exact match, right down to part number  Bought a set of 3 for $51 & change where the singles list for ~$22 each.

I love doing initial oil filter changes... seems the manufacturer always puts the filter on with an air impact wrench and they're a royal b#tch to get off.  So I ended up using a stillson wrench to get it started. At least it didn't shred the filter... I've had that happen before. It took almost 1/2 an hour for the oil to drain as well... Poorly designed drain system. But all that said, the oil & filter has been changed. 

Changing the blades was another evolution... I jacked up the front end as high as my hydraulic jack would get it, then threw 2 ratchet straps over a roof truss and through the front bumper and alternately tightened them till I had the front end high enough to comfortably work underneath it. (I did this after draining the oil and before re-filling it) Each ratchet strap was over a different truss and I evened the strain before I went under to work. I figured that was sufficient back up for safety purposes. I had to use a pipe to extend a breaker bar to get those nuts loose. I actually found that rather strange as I had a repair shop replace the blades once before so they shouldn't have been on that tight. In addition, the blades were completely trashed, and I've hit many fewer items since the blades were (supposedly) replaced. I kinda wonder if I didn't get taken by the repair shop.  they were so dull I imagine I was beating the grass to death rather than cutting it. The up-sloped rear behind the cutting edge was eaten completely through on 2 of them and gone on the third. Needless to say I won't be using that repair shop again. Might explain why I had to go over each pass twice. I'm very interested to try it out tomorrow and see the difference. If I can cut in one pass like when it was new it will cut my mowing time in half 

Texted my son and verified they'll be here around dinner time on Tuesday the 18th. Guess I'll spend the next few days cleaning house and getting ready for them. I really wish I could afford to hire weekly cleaners. I'd be embarrassed for them (hired help) to see the present shape things are in though... I'd have to clean before they got here   Kinda like washing the dishes before putting them in the dishwasher...


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## CntryBoy777

By the sound of it, the mowing should go much, much smoother for ya with the new blades.....sounded like ya got a good deal on them too. Something that oughta help make your blades last longer, is.....ya won't be having to cut thru those same chunks of wood that damaged the old pair...
About the cleaning, I totally understand it, and have stood in the same shoes.....I was just thankful it was only a 60' trlr that I was in....a whole lot less to have to clean....


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## greybeard

I prefer gator blades most of the time, except times like now when it rains a lot and the grass gets higher between weekly mowings. 
Gators last longer and cut better, as they provide more lift to the grass.


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## Bruce

Someone over on BYC pointed me toward a different blade 2 years ago. I have to check but they look like the Gator blades. Clearly much better than the OEM for my tractor and they are a lot cheaper. Echoing @greybeard, they do last longer, I think they are made of "better" steel or something.

They don't seem to be carried here by Lowes, HD, ACE, Aubuchon or Sears. I got mine online.


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## Latestarter

I'll check them out for the next change. Thanks for the pointer.


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## Mini Horses

Need to change my blades BUT....will cut another area that has crap growing.   Yep, may need a 2nd mow but, those on will get it down and help to not kill new ones first cut out. There some chunks/chips but they ARE still sharp enough to cut.  I will rake the stuff before another cut.

I have GOT to switch out the backhoe & bush hog.


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## Latestarter

Maybe you can get a neighbor to help you swap it out? Just grasping straws here... Maybe dial 911 and get the fire department to help? (JK! Don't do that!)


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## Mini Horses

Actually, may ask guy across the street to do the final push of the PTO thingy.   Nice guy.  He's really nice to look at too 

Maybe I should get my single dtr to be here when the single neighbor comes over.  They're same age & unattached.


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## Latestarter

Now there's a thought... you never know!


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## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> Actually, may ask guy across the street to do the final push of the PTO thingy.   Nice guy.  He's really nice to look at too
> 
> Maybe I should get my single dtr to be here when the single neighbor comes over.  They're same age & unattached.


Just make sure if they hit it off that they live at HIS place, not hers. Otherwise he won't be as available to help. 

I've never touched a real tractor PTO before but "thinking out loud": If you lack the force (whatever that means) to get it tight enough to connect, would it be possible to attach a come along to the rear of the tractor and the "attachment/implement" and pull it that last inch or five?


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## Latestarter

OK, just some quick feedback... new blades make a WORLD of difference. 

ETA: Took a break and ran to Arby's for a late lunch to try out one of their new triple thick bacon sandwiches they're advertising. It was terrible.   The bacon was over cooked/burned some time last month, then re heated/hardened in a microwave before being placed on the sandwich.   Thought I was going to break teeth trying to bite through it. In fact several bites I couldn't get through it and pulled the whole strip out of the sandwich. Once I could get some of it chewed up it turned into little pebbles/rocks. It had no bacon flavor either... just like greasy burned brown sugar.

Oh well, back to mowing... Got a front pasture to do again.


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## Bruce

That is one way to save your wallet and waistline 

Yeah, new blades sure do make a difference. No chips out of the cutting surface, edge flat, nice and smooth 

Now you just have to NEVER hit anything harder than grass and you'll be good for some time!


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> I've never touched a real tractor PTO before but "thinking out loud": If you lack the force (whatever that means) to get it tight enough to connect, would it be possible to attach a come along to the rear of the tractor and the "attachment/implement" and pull it that last inch or five?



You have to line up the U-joint (female) with the splines on the PTO (male) and shove it all the way to the back of the PTO. The shaft is just long enough to reach, not much extra play room to it. Mine has a spring loaded set screw pin that locks in place when it is properly attached. It usually takes both me and my husband to put the brush hog on. I have quick connect for the other attachments, but they have to be adjusted for the brush hog.


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## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> . It usually takes both me and my husband to put the brush hog on.


Ditto that!   There's just nothing easy about it...sigh.


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## greybeard

There should be no reason it takes much effort at all to connect a PTO shaft on even the biggest implement. They are all designed from big batwings to little finish mowers,  to be hooked up by one person with ease. The most frequent reason a pto shaft is difficult to get on is not at the shaft end but is in the telescopic section of the shaft itself.  The 2 parts of the shaft need to be pulled apart regularly, cleaned and coated with a good thin lubricant--silicone grease or thin lithium grease, then reassembled. It should slide so easily that it would come apart if held upside down. Technically, the internal and external halves of the PTO tube should never see metal to metal contact. They are designed to have a thin film of lubricant all the way town the shaft between the 2 pieces at all times, whether they are the old square tube or the current 3 sided tubes. This prevents wear and thinning of the tube wall thickness, which can lead to catastrophically shaft failure.

On the input tho, (tractor end) of the shaft, the internal splines should be cleaned good and so should the external splines of the shaft stub that comes out of the tractor. These splines too should get a good coat of lubricant before connecting them. This minimizes wear of the splines, prevents a wear shoulder from forming, and keeps rust from forming if the implement is left on the tractor without being rotated for any period longer than 1 week.

When you take your implement off, again clean, then coat the internal splines with lubricant, as well as making sure the telescope section is clean and coated with lube.
Next time you get ready to use it, it'll go right on.

Baymule: There should be plenty of extra length to any telescoping PTO implement shaft. Unless the shaft has been shortened, I would say at least an extra 1 foot of engagement should be present after the shaft is connected to the tractor. (depends on the input HP requirement rating of the implement) If it's just a matter of the telescope part doesn't want to come out any farther, it's usually from corrosion inside the 2 parts and it just needs to be pulled apart and cleaned/lubed.

I much prefer this type connection at the tractor end of the the shaft as opposed to the twist collar. Just a simple push button that moves the pin over to a 1/2 round machined area to clear the shaft.










I don't like the connection with the twist collar and sure don't like the ones where you have to pull the plastic collar rearward on the shaft towards the implement, while trying to shove the connection in toward the tractor.

On the following type, you are supposed to be able to pull back on the black collar (slide it toward the u-joint) while pushing the whole thing toward the tractor..it's the kind I said I hated.



 


The one below, twist 1/4 turn and the retaining balls stay retracted back out of the way. Slip it on the PTO shaft and the collar rotates back and the balls lock into place in the groove, but they usually don't keep working properly for long. I hate 'em.


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## babsbag

We learned the hard way about keeping the telescoping shaft lubricated. Our post hole digger was firmly stuck together and it took DH a good long while to get it free. We hadn't used it in a few years and it was out in the weather, no shed or barn. We keep them lubed now. If that shaft is free to slide the PTO is pretty easy to hook up.


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## Bruce

I like @greybeard's "solution"


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## Mini Horses

DEFINATELY  is in the telescopic section of the shaft itself.   It looks to be a fairly new part, so I assume it was replaced (used mower) and tight from that.   Apparently it was just not lubricated when stored.    All else works great!!

Will see what I need to do to disassemble, lubricate & reassemble.   Thanks greybeard!!

I LOVE that you give pictures -- I'm a hands on, visual type & especially when it comes to repair things.   Will see what is out there -- picks in hand! -- and see where it goes.   
I would love to be able to use this implement without connection help!


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## Bruce

But then how will you get your DD married to the nice neighbor?


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## greybeard

It's sometimes a pita just to get the plastic safety shield apart and back together.
When the telescope tubes themselves are stuck tho, I generally will try to hang the end up as high as the implement will allow, and spray copious amounts of penetrating oil down where the 2 tubes meet. Let the fluid  sit, then gently start tapping the outer tube with a SOFT hammer and work the internal tube back and forth till it comes completely out. You don't want to cause any dents. 
(Note--it can be very messy--that gunk in there, mixed with the penetrating fluid is nasty)
I recommend PB Blaster.


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## Bruce

I was going to mention PB Blaster until I got to @greybeard's last line. Now I don't have to  I've found it to be really good for breaking up rust and returning a tool to usable form.


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## Latestarter

I love it when my thread becomes a teaching moment. This is awesome. Thanks GB 

Got the whole front pasture mowed today as well as re-doing the soon to be finished goat pasture #1 that I expect to finish fencing/enclosing with the help of my soon to arrive son  Seems I just mowed the goat enclosure area a few days ago and it already needed re-mowing  The new blades are working great. I've already dinged them a few times  (hard to avoid here, though I'm really trying). My son and family are on the road & should be here late afternoon tomorrow. Right now I'm trying to get caught up on laundry and tomorrow I'll clean the house before they arrive. It's gonna be a real bear as Mel leaves clouds of hair everywhere he goes, even after brushing him out. Not to mention all the dirt he brings in from laying in the trenches & dugouts he makes.   Trying to keep this place clean is a lost cause.

Today was a weird goat day. They weren't excited at breakfast and didn't start or finish right off the bat. CM didn't eat at all and went off and laid down in the sun. He wouldn't let me get near him to see what was ailing him.   Then CC didn't want her bottle  so I poured it out on the compost pile. I did cut several good sized live oak limbs later that were ripping my face apart mowing, and gave them those. They all cleaned every leaf off those limbs and gnawed bark as well. I was mowing but took a fuel break and tried to giver CC an afternoon bottle. She didn't want that one either.   They weren't in a rush for dinner tonight either... Though they did eat better than this morning and CM ate this time, and CC took almost her whole dinner bottle. But there was grain/pellets left which I consolidated into one feed bowl and left for them to snack on overnight.

CC will be 11 weeks old in 2 days and I was going to start weaning her next week at 12 weeks. Maybe I'll start cutting her back on bottles now. She's eating the grain and pellets along with her mom, and gets in the limbs for leaves along with the rest. This evening she was gnawing the oak branches for bark, and I've seen her eating hay. She's very healthy and growing well. She hasn't caught up with CB & CM size wise, but that's to be expected.

CM's ball sack is now hanging by a thread. I wonder if that's what had him "off" today. I expect it will fall off within the next several days. CC Got her CD&T booster this afternoon at bottle time. Maybe that's why she wasn't interested in the bottle then? So CM is finally getting over his fear of me and will come up to me when I'm feeding CC and let me give him neck scratches and nose rubs. But he's "flighty" and I have to move real slow, and even with that, he won't stay close for very long. He's pretty sensitive on his horn nubs (both were re-burned) and lets out a scream and runs away shaking his head whenever one of the others head butts him and hits them. They still haven't completely healed from the re-burning. CC's re-burn (one nub) is just about finished healing. There's still a very small pink spot that hasn't grown hair over it yet. 

It's kinda funny... when I'm milking Dot, CC will come over and give me kisses and rub noses with me.   Then after I put down the grain bowls, she'll every so often come over to me for "reassurance" scratches then go back to eating. While I'm bottle feeding CC, CB will come up and stand between us waiting for scratches and attention. She likes to nibble on my jeans and T-shirts as well as my fingers.   Then CM will slowly ease up and let me scratch his neck a little. As that's happening, Bang will come up behind me and use the back pocket edges and side seam on my jeans as a scratching area for her head. So she'll stand nice and still if I reach back and giver her neck, head, brisket and shoulders scratches. Then Dot feels left out so she'll mosey over and rub down me like they do against the fence and want me to scratch her shoulders and sides.  She really likes her haunches scratched as well. April is still standoffish and if I need to catch her, I need to drop cereal outside the fence. They all stick their heads out and kneel down to eat it and I can go inside and sneak up behind her and grab her collar. At least she has gradually lessened the amount of fighting she does when I have her by the collar...  Sure do love my animals 

That about does it from here.


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## Baymule

Nothing like goat love is there?   I am excited for you that your son and family is coming to see you. They are thinking about moving here, right?  As in the Houston area? Try to steer them to Dallas, they will have a much better life there than Houston. I feel ya' on the dog hair. Polly, our Aussie is a hair bomb. It's everywhere no matter what I do.  And Mel is 4 times her size, which means about a square yard MORE of dog hair!


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## CntryBoy777

Sure sounds like things are going really well for ya there, and it sure sounds as if ya have "Found" your spot in the Herd. Really hope the visit goes extremely well and your "Plans" get accomplished. Did ya get that post?.....it could be a father/son project.....


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## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> But then how will you get your DD married to the nice neighbor?





She'll be "on her own" with this one.  Never a marriage thing, just meet up.   I don't try to go beyond "meet & greet" for match making.   BUT -- he's a fine looking specimen & was military, then working for military as contract.  Overseas a lot, very personable, very unattached right now.

Sooooooooo -- with instructions and pic in hand, I went out there & got everything "moving" very smoothly.    That rascal was so very tight, like it was never, ever greased.   Slides nice now!!   And, I do have the U-joint with the slide pin.   Had to stop so I can get ready to go to work.  No time to remove backhoe & work to hook this up.    But feel very good that I may be able to do this "alone".    Won't do until Thurs as I have other commitments.


----------



## Mike CHS

I think about all you can do with the dog hair is try to keep it from piling up.


----------



## greybeard

I can only imagine what that much hair does to the filter on a central air unit. Last time I changed ours, most of what was on it was hair just from my wife and I--we don't have any animals inside.


----------



## Bruce

Maybe @Latestarter needs a dust collector to clean up after Mel, maybe even vacuum him with it


----------



## Latestarter

I think what I really need is twice weekly maid service since I hate doing housework   It's a good thing that I live by myself as I only have to concern myself with how I feel about it. It would (will) also help once the weather starts cooling down and even more when Mel becomes a full time, outside LGD


----------



## CntryBoy777

Quite a few around here give their thick coated dogs a summer trim in order to keep them cooler and have less hair to deal with....even GPs.


----------



## Latestarter

He doesn't really have a long coat... except for his ruff around his neck, he's actually got the coat of an Anatolian, which is relatively short. It is thick, but not like a Pyr or other heavy/long coated dog. He does have a pretty decent undercoat though, which thickens up in the winter. I won't trim him for fear of skin issues and other issues with parasites (biting flies, mosquitoes, etc.) His coat protects him from that. The fur also protects in case he gets into it with another dog or coyote etc.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> It would (will) also help once the weather starts cooling down and _even more when Mel becomes a full time, outside LGD_



 
You'll have to get him a friend so he MIGHT think being outside is better than hanging with "Dad" in the comfy weather proof house.


----------



## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> The fur also protects in case he gets into it with another dog or coyote etc.


The great pyr I had years back.. once I watched him get into a play fight with a pit bull. 

The pit grabbed the pyr by the throat, but all she got was fuzz.  She had to let go and hack up a hairball.

And yep, even in the heat, it is best to not shave them.  Combing out any stuck undercoat is good....but what a chore!  Blach


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> when Mel becomes a full time, outside LGD


----------



## babsbag

I brushed an entire dog out of my Border Collie that other day and there is still enough hair on the floor in the house to make another dog. I think I need daily maid service.


----------



## babsbag

@Mini Horses it is too bad you don't live in CA... working on your mower with pictures in hand...my kind of woman. I amaze most of my friends when they see the things I tackle on my own. Just think of all the trouble I could get into with a friend like you living nearby... Maybe it is better this way.


----------



## greybeard

babsbag said:


> Just think of all the trouble I could get into with a friend like you living nearby... Maybe it is better this way.


You know what they say......... A friend will help you move..a good friend will help ya move a body.

Back in my younger days, my former wife decided we needed a maid. I hired one. Wife fired her the 2nd week. I hired another. Wife fired her too, and every other one that came in for the next 6 months. Wife decided we really didn't need one after all..

I swear.
It weren't my fault she was so picky...


----------



## Bruce

Maybe because you kept hiring beautiful, shapely young women who worked in skimpy "French Maid" outfits?


----------



## greybeard

I learned early in my unalienable right to the happiness of pursuit, not to try to dictate what any female chose to wear on or off the job Bruce.


----------



## Bruce

I wasn't suggesting YOU told her what to wear, just that you hired the ones who dressed that way 
All in jest of course.


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## Latestarter

So my son and his family left this morning for their road trip back home to Vegas. Had a great visit and sure was happy they came. Didn't get the fencing finished, but did get all the wood posts sunk, which was a huge help. If the D-in-law and grands hadn't been here we probably/might have gotten more accomplished, but that's fine! I am NOT complaining! The weather during their visit, up until yesterday, was really hot and humid so we spent time at the public pool with the kids, and doing other fun things. We also did a lot of property clean-up and had 2 nice big bonfires and when they were down to mostly coals, we raked a pile out away from the heat so the kids and DIL could make smores. The kids also had a blast with the goats. Their next visit will be around Christmas 

So, I figure a day for me to catch back up on rest and I'll go back to working on fencing myself. When I went to TSC to pick up the wire to do the "H" cross bracing, they didn't have what I thought I needed... I ended up buying aluminum electric (hot) wire to use for the purpose. It wasn't as stiff or thick (smaller gauge) as what I was expecting to buy/use, and wasn't as stiff as the other wire (high tensile galvanized hot wire) they had, so I bought it hoping it would handle the strain of twisting to tighten it. @greybeard do you think that will be OK, or should I return it and get something else? Is there some specific wire that works better/best? I can call or drive a ways to check a different (better) TSC and see if they have what I need.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure glad the visit went well, but it is a shame the weather couldn't have been a bit more comfortable. Our grandsons are returning home on Thurs this week....and with the break in the weather to last thru this coming wknd, it should allow for more outdoor time instead of "Pinging" off the walls inside....


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## JACB Dorper

Heel low:

You make me grin Joe.  





*Jul 28 2017 -
Some of the ovine gals eatin' Poplar leaves...because they're a flock ABOVE eating just ground grasses  *​
Tis always a three or four ring circus going on here...   

If'n family was suppose to speed up the process of extra circular jobs...you dun goodun!  

Any way we get our jobs done here is when Rick and I are left alone to it.  Otherwise, the help is making more work like leaving some of the gates open (good intentions, just forgetful wandering about), zapping themselves on the ele netting (after being told to stay away from the sheep!), eyeing up my plantings  hoping I'll dig up a near full grown shrub and send them home with them (we have a nursery a short walk down the road that is screaming for biz!).  Then because we DO live in the middle of nowhere...all the extra cooking and clean up--good ol' bed and breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks...country living is a hungry existence!  Nope, no company to help...just visiting is fine but one could while away the ENTIRE summer (aka CONSTRUCTION here) entertaining the COMPANY...  Cripers...but no harm done past we are all getting longer in the teeth, eh.  

By the by, I have used that aluminum wire here a bit...seems to stand up and with my old paws, it does bend and cut pretty slick; seems to work & last...for as long as we've been fencing (since 1998).   

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks so much Tara   I'm pretty sure they'll be just as happy to be home and sleeping in their own beds once again   Really was a great visit  

Nice to hear that the aluminum wire will indeed work. I made a mental note that I would use a double wrap of it on each brace run, just to be sure it would be strong enough.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I ended up buying aluminum electric (hot) wire to use for the purpose. It wasn't as stiff or thick (smaller gauge) as what I was expecting to buy/use, and wasn't as stiff as the other wire (high tensile galvanized hot wire) they had, so I bought it hoping it would handle the strain of twisting to tighten it. @greybeard do you think that will be OK


Dunno..I never used it. 
What's the stated tensile or breaking strength on it?
I never use anything that's weaker than the wire I'm stretching.


----------



## JACB Dorper

Heel low:



Latestarter said:


> Thanks so much Tara   I'm pretty sure they'll be just as happy to be home and sleeping in their own beds once again   Really was a great visit
> 
> Nice to hear that the aluminum wire will indeed work. I made a mental note that I would use a double wrap of it on each brace run, just to be sure it would be strong enough.



Family visits tire out all parties...but oh the JOYs...too much good times and need a nap?  

I suspect you do get use to being the _King of your own Castle_...now you can throw your underwear about the house and nobody will know except for maybe dogs like Mel...but he's sworn to secrecy...what happens on the place stays on the place...right?  

Crap...don't return the wire Joe as having some is useful, but I found out you rightly need high tensile, eh! 

Man alive I wish we were as close geographically as we are on The Net...sigh.  I originally wanted to perimeter the place in high tensile electrified...ZAP, ah but our first summer here and all the lightening strikes and power outages proved that was not too doable.  Our generator system would have had to have automatic switching to pick up when the power company let us down.  The first year there was like a dozen outages...some from storms but many we know not why...bills still expect to get paid on time though even when the service was interrupted?  HUH?  Could not afford to have our livestock meandering on the highway beside us or Wiley E. making a visit, eh.  Grrr....

I'd gladly give you a roll as we have like seven or so rolls of high tensile stored in one of the tractor trailers and I'm never gonna go thru that much high tensile.  Still used some but as a physical barrier as in unpowered topper wires to slow down the outside leapers.   




*Cross brace and thar's the high tensile wire in play*​
Trouble was I could not contact Rick to know for sure so I went out for clicks and yup...high tensile is what was used!  Granted it has been a few decades since we perimeter fenced & maybe it was MY turn to ramble on yer thread, eh??  LOL  Sorry...    

Rick put in some wood slats, so one may wobble by and give the corners fence and cross braces a few twists to keep it tight. 




greybeard said:


> Dunno..I never used it.
> What's the stated tensile or breaking strength on it?
> I never use anything that's weaker than the wire I'm stretching.



I think more the issue would be the aluminum wire streeeeetches...so you would want wire that does not stretch as much out over time.  I have battled (scars to prove I lost!) with the high tensile and it seems brittle, strong but brittle and once bent or kinked...prone to busting there if it ever lets go.  Not a compatible bendy wire...but it is not designed for that now is it!   




Here it is used as part of our grounding wire system ...
7 foot ground stake, clamp and fasteners
High tensile wire snaked between




 
You don't want any of your herd or flock members to be driven by a storm
to bunch up along the fence, lightening hits and harms them
We use ele netting and I use the perimeter fence very often as ground​Not sure how many times one wakes up and figures..."Let's do the ground staking today!" but we chose to do it during our fencing bees...get her done and forget about it.  Rocky river bottom, got lots of soil but in places, holy , it was hard putting the stakes in the ground.  Did it and happy for it.   




*Also used the high tensile as two strands above the page wire to keep 
the deer and predators from visiting too easily* over the top of the perimeter fences​
I finally got ahold of Rick (works out in the Boonies, eh!)...he said he used high tensile not the stretch aluminum wire (which my photos show).  That aluminum wire is for me and my ongoing fencing projects.  Hee hee...     Working on aluminum toxicity (symptoms similar to Alzheimer's disease--dementia and forgetfulness...maybe it's working??) perhaps? 

"Here, don yer aluminum hat and get shelterbelt planting??"  

Forever happy in my own little world??  




*The aluminum wire is good at wrapping and twisting
securing for welded wire to t-posts or rebar fencing* 
 Shall I tell you to wear gloves when working with it...  ​



Speaking about ridged unforgiving wire...
Premier (nfi) sells these heavy thick wire hinges and they make
a pretty slick gate, that or missing links work swell​
I don't want to steer you wrong Joe.  I do have that alum wire for securing fencing to posts and odds & sod repairs.  You are never done fencing...are we?  

Doggone & Chicken UP!

Tara Lee Higgins
Higgins Rat Ranch Conservation Farm, Alberta, Canada


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## Bruce

You and your son got the HARD posts in Joe! I found stretching, even though I did it alone, to be a lot easier than setting those wood posts. And T-posts aren't too bad ... if you don't hit big rocks   You and your son's bodies are probably better off not overdoing it given the weather!

Not sure I would trust aluminum wire for brace work. You gotta get that pretty tight. Did you ask if they had brace wire at TSC or when they will have some in? At my TSC they keep it out with the rolls of field fencing.


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## Latestarter

Yeah... I think I'm going to return the aluminum wire and look for the right stuff. I asked specifically for brace wire and they said all they had was the electric wire selection.  I have time as this week looks to be cooler days (nothing above high 80s all week). First I need to cut/fit/physically attach all the "H" cross members. There are no big rocks to speak of here that I've found... I'm on primarily sandy loam soil and iron clay. Driving the T-posts isn't too difficult and they ease right in, just time consuming. Digging those wood post holes (we used an auger) was a royal PITA though. There's no way we could have gotten them all done with just the clam shell diggers. The soil is/was dry and packed as hard as a rock. Though we did use the diggers to finish each hole. We really need some rain here. Supposed to maybe have some tomorrow into Wednesday 

My son said he'd help me fence in the next 2 pastures when he comes at Christmas.  No heat & humidity then to hold us back.


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## CntryBoy777

Glad ya made progress and we are in the same shape here. I went to the garden to dig a hole to bury the fish guts in and after the first 6-8" it was concrete. It will be a huge relief when ya can see the end of the project and happy for ya that your DS is willing to pitch in and help ole Dad out with that heavy labor.....


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## Baymule

Joe, what we used for brace wire is twisted like barb wire, but without the barbs. It comes on a roll like barb wire. I can't believe those ........I'm trying to think of a _nice_ descriptive term to use, but I am failing......anyhoo, they sold you aluminum electric fence wire?  

Look closely and you can see the twist brace wire.


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## CntryBoy777

That's the same stuff I used @Baymule ....
 .....the whole spool was $60 at the CoOp in town.


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## Goat Whisperer

They keep the brace wire outside with the field fencing at our TSC as well. 

Never take the word of a TSC employee unless you "know" the person you are asking. They usually don't have a clue, at least here at the NC stores. 

So what did the family think of the goats and Mel? I love seeing the reactions when people see the lamanchas! At our last show I had over 20 people ask me why I cut the ears off the goats


----------



## Baymule

Goat Whisperer said:


> At our last show I had over 20 people ask me why I cut the ears off the goats



Because I got their ears pierced, they got infected and we had to amputate their ears. They sure did look good with those earrings, while it lasted.

They're not goats......they're Dobermans in disguise.

They are born with long floppy ears, but they step on them and trip a lot. So for safety's sake, their ears are cut off at the vet's office.

These goats are naturally deaf-those aren't ears.

Our dog chewed them off.

We went on vacation and they must have got hungry while we were gone. Their tails used to be a lot longer too.


----------



## CntryBoy777




----------



## CntryBoy777

They were born that way.....and we are showing them in the Handicapped catagory.


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## greybeard

Most of my corners, I used cable.    Do it once, do it right, and don't worry about it for 40-50 years. No wood for 'twist sticks' here. It rots, bugs eat it, it breaks, and it won't twist the brace wire tight enough anyway. I use steel--usually 1/2 solid rods or bolts.

That diagonal brace wire ensures 1/2 the tension of all the wires is transmitted from the end (anchor) post to the second post. The diagonal brace wire has to hold all the tension of all the pressure that is coming from the anchor post--that's the one the wire(s) are attached to. Tree falls on the fence somewhere, the fence wires themselves should break before the corner fails. Fence wire itself may stretch or get loose from stock pressure but the brace wire should be the same and the end of your life as it was the day you built the corner. There's no reason to ever have to go back and twist the brace wire some more. I build them today, the same way I did when I started in 1965. I've never had to retighten one or replace but one corner and that's because a mature oak blew down right on the corner. Broke both cross ties off at the ground.


----------



## greybeard

Most of you have seen this one already. 


 

Maybe/probably tomorrow, I'll be re-building a short fence my neighbor put in as a lead in to my cowpen, while I was recovering from heart surgery. He meant well, and the ground was hard as a hooker's heart at the time, but the fence is just junk. 
I'll try to take some pics along the way.


----------



## Bruce

You are one funny lady @Baymule


----------



## greybeard

Bay..you forgot "frost bit and fell off"

(not really a stretch tho..it does happen..at least to cattle in the northern states--hooves too)


----------



## goatgurl

@Baymule  you are so bad.  for years I've told people that they are born with long ears but we trim them off and deep fry them as snacks.  the looks of horror are priceless.  
glad you had a great visit with your family LS and you and ds got all those post set.  won't be near as hard to get the rest of them set and the wire stretched.


----------



## Latestarter

So yeah... I forgot there were two post holes that had been augered but never deepened and the posts set. They were down at the back/east corner, so I did that today. Then pounded in the final 2 T-posts for the back line and started on the T-posts for the North line, working west toward the house. Expect to be back out there tomorrow continuing. It's amazing how different (difficult) it's become to pound them... The ground has hardened up pretty good and it takes quite an effort to get them pounded in. It was easy when I started in the spring after all the wet weather we had. Not so much now.  

The temp was decent today to start out... right about 84 degrees, but the humidity climbed until it was (100%) spitting rain, and I stopped as I was sopping wet with sweat. I keep hoping we'll get some real rain/moisture but we've been unlucky so far... It's been around me in all compass directions, but none here. Weather service is saying 40% chance tonight, 60% tomorrow, then next best chance at 50% for Friday. Checked the radar and there's nothing that looks to be headed for me tonight.

I returned the aluminum wire to TSC and went out to their yard and sure enough, found the double strand horse wire that y'all were speaking of. It was with the barbed wire & $60 bucks for the roll. Was surprised at how heavy that danged roll is too.   I hope it's not wrapped under tension as I don't want it to unravel like a whip when I start to use it. I had a bunch of rebar, 18-24" length that I left in CO when I moved. Wish I had brought them as they would have worked great as tensioning bars... Oh well. I will post some pics when I get something finished.


----------



## CntryBoy777

The spool I had was wound tight, but not under a great amount of tension....plus, the stiffness of the wire will keep it from unwinding a great deal. In fact, I had to physically uncoil several rounds to get enough to reach from post to post. Just make sure you are holding the spool end when ya cut and stick it thru the legs of the spool....there will be a few loose strands, but it won't be a tangled mess for ya or too difficult to handle. I just kept telling myself as I toted it from place to place that it was getting Lighter....even tho it really didn't seem like it too much. If your ground is dry, I'd put it in the back of the PU and drive it around instead of toting it........


----------



## greybeard

There's lots of ways to un-roll wire--slick or barbed, without carrying the roll.
I prefer to leave the roll at one end of the fence and just pull the end to wherever it needs to go..no need carrying that whole roll down the fence line, like brother and I did when we were young, bulletproof, invisible and could still leap tall buildings in a single bound.





 Not no, but heck no!

You can buy something or make something, tho I usually just set the roll on my fencing trailer on a bar that drops down in 2 slots I cut in rear of the trailer sides. My truck is a work truck, so I don't have a problem with just dropping something down in the holes in the side of the bed and putting a piece of pipe or a fence post in there to slide the roll into. It will scratch the paint some, but I just don't care.
If your property is relatively small acerage, you can make an unroller from an old pushmower handle or lawnmower frame or furniture dolly.
Use your imagination:
http://www.inventionconnection.com/BOOTHS/GRAPHICS/418d.jpg

https://www.farmshow.com/images/resize.php?w=300&img=/images/articles/20/3/23912_l.jpg

http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/mvphoto2887.jpg
http://www.alafarmnews.com/afcfarmnews/images/stories/0907/0907 gates_roller.jpg

https://www.farmshow.com/images/resize.php?w=300&img=/images/articles/15/2/25737_l.jpg

https://www.farmshow.com/images/resize.php?w=300&img=/images/articles/32/3/19728_l.jpg

https://www.farmshow.com/images/resize.php?w=300&img=/images/articles/22/5/20155_l.jpg

http://www.diymetalfabrication.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/IMG_07461.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/95/b9/e9/95b9e9ec24e4f661b73fa93b8013ee54--rigs-atv.jpg

http://www.globalnasco.com/prod/images/products/4B/VC127624l.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YHY6cMDrNM0/hqdefault.jpg

If you're unrolling HT slick wire tho, just spend the $$ and get the spinning jenny. The mess created trying to do it without one is an instant teacher.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> If your ground is dry, I'd put it in the back of the PU and drive it around instead of toting it........


Or if you have a cart for your garden tractor. I toted all my fencing stuff that way (though the 330' roll of fence that didn't start up hill got dragged on an old plastic sled). Or you could probably make a skid from some plywood and a couple of 2 bys that you could pull with the GT.



Latestarter said:


> It was easy when I started in the spring after all the wet weather we had. Not so much now.


Start the T-posts, then get out the 1,000' hose and "water them in", should be easy to pound after a few gallons each


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## greybeard

The ground is hard, the sun is hot and the air is heavy.
Welcome to East Texas LS!

My youngest son came by Sunday from Louisiana on his way back to his job in Houston. He's moving to Hou this month permanent and said he had some stuff to give me. Some field fence stretchers and a tee post driver. I told him I already had a couple of post drivers and he said _"I don't care..I'm leavin it here and I never want to see another one as long as I live"._

I'm awful proud of his accomplishments in his field of endeavor, but he's never fenced more than 2 acres in his whole life. 

(he shoulda had to string a couple miles of concertina like I did decades ago and he'd know what misery really is)


----------



## Bruce

Good luck to your son @greybeard. Does he have a house? I just read today the many locations around the country where housing is way overvalued and the next bubble is likely. Houston and Austin were on the list.


----------



## greybeard

He's looking this week. Probably in the Kingwood/Woodlands area, since his wife has been able to laterally transfer to an office in Kingwood in her job as well. He works on the South West side of Houston, but has a pretty flexible schedule compared to her 9-5 hrs.
He spends lots of time out of state and 2-3 times/year is out of the USA.
He's in OKC  this week. Dakotas next week.

He's some kind of  guru with this outfit..
http://cameron.slb.com/products-and-services/valves-index


----------



## Baymule

I hope your son finds a house at a fair price. That part of Houston is in high demand. My sister lives one block from the Conroe city limits, on the Montgomery side. The farm road that her neighborhood is on, is so busy, there are certain times of the day that she doesn't go anywhere because of the traffic.


----------



## Alaskan

My parents live in Houston..born and raised.


----------



## Bruce

I wonder when the Houston bubble will burst and if it would be better for he and his wife to rent for awhile rather than buy at inflated prices.

One of the things the story mentioned was to see how many flippers are "working" the area. If they aren't it is a very good indication that houses are overpriced.


----------



## Alaskan

Houston is very....uh...... sectionalized?  Different areas are very different.


----------



## greybeard

Alaskan said:


> Houston is very....uh...... sectionalized?  Different areas are very different.


Yep, the differences are what make the different areas  different.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, we finally had a little T-storm bubble up over us yesterday. Right after sundown and covered most of Titus county. When I saw the clouds starting to build I decided it was the perfect time to head to the post office and check my box, then buy my lottery tickets for Friday evening and get me an out of the house meal. I figured if all that didn't bring on the rain, I didn't know what would.  It worked   It just sat here for about an hour and dumped a bit over an inch of rain.  My pasture vegetation thanks the rain god  Of course the goats were less than thrilled. 

As for the roll of brace wire, I'll just leave it in the bed of the truck and drive to each post set needing bracing. I'm not lazy, but I try to not do work that's unnecessary or over and above what's really required to get the job done (right). That's become more and more a requirement as I've gotten older.

On a completely non-farming subject, football season officially starts tonight with the Hall of Fame game.   I realize it's only preseason and most of the first string players won't even be playing, but it's better than no football. And preseason allows a glimpse of the rookies so we can see Also means we're only about a month away from the real season start. It also heralds in my favorite time of the year; fall! The hot weather period is about 1/2 over and the cooler days and nights will be back soon  My wallet will appreciate turning off the AC and opening the windows again.


----------



## CntryBoy777

As we do age it is better to work Smarter, than Harder....
Glad ya got some much needed moisture....and tho I gave up football yrs ago, I stand with ya on the signal of the changing seasons just ahead and Welcome it with "Open Arms". Hope your team gives ya plenty to Cheer about and not to B*%ch at.....


----------



## Bruce

Not time for fall! Too much to do still!!


----------



## Baymule

Alaskan said:


> My parents live in Houston..born and raised.


My parents moved to Houston from Longview when I was in 3rd grade. I left after I graduated high school and never looked back.

LS, we got a good rain too, 1 1/4" we were thrilled. It settled the dust around here. We were outside at 7 AM, DH lit the burn pile and our son chainsawed some fallen trees into manageable pieces and took down a few trees that were in my way. I turned the sheep in to eat the tops, they all looked like they had 55 gallon drums for bellies this evening when I put them in the night pen. LOL


----------



## Latestarter

Good thunder to the north and more coming. The goats will not be/are not pleased. So I emptied, de-algified, and re-filled their water trough (the tub) this morning. When I flipped it over there were 3 huge black widow females under it. That was rather neat. Gotta remember not to put my hands/fingers/toes underneath it when working around it.  

Already working on building another burn pile. Guess I'll just save that for the kids when they're here at Christmas (if I can go that long). Aside from the branches I cut for the goats, the trees around here seem to enjoy dropping dead limbs all over the place. I'm trying to keep them collected up rather than running over them with the mower.

Dot has dropped off in milk production and is down to a bit less than 1/2 gallon a day. I've seen that Bang is still letting her kids CM & CB nurse every so often. I thought she had stopped, but I guess not. CC is starting to determine/establish her rank and has even been head butting with her mom Dot. She's also very athletic and loves jumping up on her mom's back. Dot has been very patient with her... for the most part.

That's about it from here at the moment.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It looks and sounds like those Tposts will be a bit easier to pound in....as long as the moisture will absorb that deep for ya.....and just tending to animals for a couple of days will give ya a much needed break and some rest for those sore muscles.....


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> So I emptied, de-algified, and re-filled their water trough (the tub) this morning. When I flipped it over there were 3 huge black widow females under it. That was rather neat. Gotta remember not to put my hands/fingers/toes underneath it when working around it.



I moved some empty lick tubs yesterday, and both under the tubs and under the top rim of the tubs were covered in black widows. 

Unless it's dirt work, spraying or mowing, I try to work rain or shine. I was born wet, same as my calves, and they have to stand out and take it, so I do too. I just walk off the porch into it, get soaked and that is the norm for the day. Monsoon isn't new to me.


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## Latestarter

Not allergic to wet by any stretch... end up soaked from sweat in any case... not allergic to dirt or mud either really. Do feel it's probably not in my best interest to be out pounding T posts in a lightening storm however. Something about holding a perfect grounding rod yaknow... Being out of sight of the road, and neighbors, it's no biggie to strip down to the birthday suit on the back porch, rinse off with the hose, and put the wet/dirty clothes directly into the washing machine. Having said all that, can't see much sense in getting into that condition if there isn't any good reason to do so.   Nothing here is really all that important or "life & death" necessary... It can wait till the rain stops and till it dries up a bit.


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## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> Dot has dropped off in milk production and is down to a bit less than 1/2 gallon a day.


Why do you think she has already dropped off so much?


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## Latestarter

I'm really not sure. She's been in milk since May 4th or just shy of 14 weeks, and the most she ever milked out was shy of a full gallon. For the past several months she's been milking about 1/2-3/4 of a gallon. I've started weaning CC and she's down to 2 bottles, morning and evening now, so thankful I am not missing the extra milk for feeding. Another week or 2 & I'll drop CC down to 1 bottle/day. It seems they've all become much more picky about their grain as well. I don't know if they changed the formulation or something. They move it all around with their noses choosing the choicest bits and then pawing through it to find more. Pisses me off because a lot of it gets wasted being pawed out or dumped out on the ground where they then won't touch it.   I did take a break from providing them tree limbs as well after the 2 bonfires. I started that back up again today. That may have contributed to the drop off... They really don't like change too much. After this round of wet weather goes through I think I'm going to do fecals on all of them again as well as a re-do of Bang's CL blood test. This time I'll use the university vets rather than the local and get actual EPG counts.

After their dinner I took Dot and Bang out and hooked them to 25' leads so they could eat some (more) greens. I stayed out there with them so I could move them to wherever they found the greens they liked best. They weren't out but 10 minutes and I heard this "POP" and look around to see Bang walking around free with no more collar.   This is the second one she's busted/ruined. The next one I put on her will be chain link  Luckily she's become accustomed to me enough that she would follow Dot back into the pen when I held the fencing open. It was a challenge to keep all the kids from running out while getting those two in. I need to get the fencing finished so I don't have to screw around with it anymore and can just let them out in the morning and put them away in the evening. That will save me a lot of work cutting limbs/trees, money on hay/feed, and time.

Looks like another round of storms headed this way for later tonight/early morning. They've issued flash flood watches through tomorrow evening for my county. Nice to be near the top of a hill. Reports are that some areas around me have already had 3-5" of rain but personally here I've only had about 1/2".  It's looked much heavier up near the red river basin and up into OK and over into AR, then east over into LA earlier. Then there's another huge band about to hit I35 from Waco south.


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## Alaskan

Yeah
.... disappointing on the milk.

It would be nice to see if there is a cause...or if she just isn't up to snuff.

I know with our first milking cycle, it took us awhile to do everything right...so I don't think the girls milked as much or as long as they  could have...if we had been better.

But I still got rid of the one doe who dropped off fastest in regards to milk production..her teats were also a bit small and harder to milk so I saw no reason to give her a second try.

My Feta, who is producing 1 to  1.5 gallons a day kidded in March.  She also has nice easy to squeeze teats, and stands to milk very nicely.


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## Alaskan

By the way,  yes, I agree that it sure is nice to have your house on a hill.

Flooding is bad!


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## Baymule

We didn't get any rain today, but it looks like we'll be getting rain tomorrow and this week. Hopefully there won't be any tornado spewing storms. Joe, you'll be getting rain too. 

Yeah, you need to get some more fencing up so it will make it easier on you. With the rain coming, the dirt ought to be a bit softer for your T-post pounding pleasure.


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## Alaskan

Just don't pound  'em during the lightning storm.


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## Bruce

Sounds like you are where @Mike CHS was a year or so back. Got the animals but having to bring feed to them until you get some fencing done. But as his example shows, it CAN be done


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## Mike CHS

It gave me some good incentive and I think Joe is there right about now.


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## AClark

Latestarter said:


> Being out of sight of the road, and neighbors, it's no biggie to strip down to the birthday suit on the back porch, rinse off with the hose, and put the wet/dirty clothes directly into the washing machine.



I'm jealous, there are days I wish I could do this. I mean, I doubt my neighbor would mind much, but I don't have the privacy on my back deck to do so. Too much traffic on my road and a clear view lol.


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## greybeard

I always figured if they could actually tell what they were seeing from the road, they were looking too hard or using binoculars. 
(and at my age, they'd only take one look anyway)


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## Latestarter

Well... if you really feel the need/desire AC, I'll give you directions to my place and you can have at it. Wonder if your DH would mind?   Unless the govt is flying drones above me to watch me (deck has a roof ), or the neighbors are sneaking through the woods to see what's going on, complete privacy.  Unless accompanied by family members, I use the jacuzzi (also under cover of the back deck) au naturel as well. I'm shy and a prude, otherwise I might be a nudist 

OK, so on another note, per usual, the T-storms moved in around 3:30am and when I checked the gauge after goat chores, it was right at 3". I overslept this morning so didn't get out to milk till a bit after 9. It was raining lightly so the goats didn't want to leave the shelter and I milked Dot inside it. They sure seemed happy to get their grain and even stood out in the sprinkles to eat. Once it started raining a little more steady though, back to the shelter they went. I condensed the remaining grain to one bucket and brought it in the shelter for them to finish. Got right at a quart so maybe it's the tree limbs and leaves that she needed. Course it might be because she had extra time to produce as well.

Looks like some rain down in your area now GB and more headed your way from the west. Hope it helps you out some. Gonna be an inside snooze in the recliner kind of day here. Which is good as I didn't get a lot of sleep last night.


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## Bruce

Time to add "Build a milking shed" to your work list Joe


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## Baymule

We got an inch of rain and  slow drizzle all morning. We were lazy, went to a movie, then to Red Lobster. We needed a day off and the rain provided the perfect excuse. 

I guess if we were so dirty that our clothes didn't deserve to go in the house, we could strip on either the front or back porch. Haven't had to do that though..... we just traipse on in.


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## CntryBoy777

That's what we are getting now Bay, it started about 6pm and is still falling outside.....we really needed a good soaking rain, the ground could use some below the surface....and have chances of rain thru the wknd, so might end up with a bit more later, too.


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## Mini Horses

Well -- we have rain here in VA too....but, needed it.  None all last week and it was hot.   I spent 8 hrs on the tractor cutting fields Thur, in front of the anticipated rain all this week!   One about 2 acres left to go.  Next weeks fun.

Walking out there with feed buckets in hand this AM -- sunshine and cool -- I spot a black snake.  Well, black snake or rat snake  ---  not welcome!!  Probably 4' and it took off when I appeared.   Was between barn & coop.  DANG!!

Sure hoping it was passing thru to the field next door and not looking for a place to reside.  I can see another dead snake in my future.


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## Latestarter

Mini Horses said:


> I spent 8 hrs on the tractor cutting fields Thur, in front of the anticipated rain all this week! One about 2 acres left to go. Next weeks fun.



Am I to assume that you finally got that danged bush hog collar figured out and got it mounted on the PTO?  Good for you if so!

On another note, I had to go out today so decided to take a run by the sale barn (cows) and stop for a look-see. So I get there and the sale is every Tuesday afternoon starting at 12:30 and it had just ended but there were a bunch of folks finishing up paper work and such. I must say I had to look like a professional cow poke walking in in my jeans and T-shirt wearing flip flops  So I asked a few questions and ended up talking with a man who lives out in my area who gave me his contact info. He said he runs cows all around where I am. I explained that I have no experience but wanted to get a few weaned 400-600 weight steers to run on my pastures to keep them eaten down and to sell at a later date. He asked if my fences were all good and what I wanted, holsteins, jerseys, etc. I told him I could get jersey steers over at the dairy and that I wanted probably angus steers. He said right now 400 weight steers were going ~$1.45-1.50/pound and 600 weight were in the $1.40 range. I don't know if those are fair prices or what... @greybeard do you have any thoughts on the matter? Guess I better start rounding up my pennies... gonna need several thousand dollars to do this. 

My son asked about doing a hog hunt while he's here at Christmas. So I stopped at the div of wildlife and asked them some questions. He can get a license free as he's a more than 50% disabled vet. If he sends me a copy of his disability paperwork and his hunter safety cert, I was told I can get his license for him. That way he'll have it when he gets here. Save a trip and they go on sale starting the 15th. Also asked about any landowners having hog problems. I was given the local wildlife officer's phone to call tomorrow for help. He's off Mondays and Tuesdays. 

They recommended I talk with the county extension agent as well for landowners suffering hog damage. Problem is, Titus county's agent retired last year and there's no replacement   They gave me the name of the Camp county agent who I guess is filling in, but they said they think he only works for folks with "gardens" and doesn't work with "cows". I told them hearing that was a bit incredible as I thought that was their purpose... to help with pasture and livestock issues... They said their jaws dropped when they heard that as well. They gave me a soil sample bag with instructions and told me when I get the report back if I bring it in, they'll help me with a soil improvement plan to better the hay fields. That was nice to hear. I should have asked @Alaskan if he/she would come for a visit while he/she was here in TX... That's what he/she got his/her degree in  Course since he/she wants to remain "genderless/unspecified", that might not have worked...


----------



## babsbag

greybeard said:


> I always figured if they could actually tell what they were seeing from the road, they were looking too hard or using binoculars.



My dad always said that if they hadn't seen it before they wouldn't know what they were looking at and if they had seen it before then what did it matter.


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## Mike CHS

babsbag said:


> My dad always said that if they hadn't seen it before they wouldn't know what they were looking at and if they had seen it before then what did it matter.



I need to file that one away for later use.


----------



## farmerjan

I know I  am not in TX so can't advise on the current local prices, but 4-5 wt steers here are bringing in the 1.25 to 1.50 range and 6 wts are in the 1.25 - 1.40 range.  So yeah, figure you are going to have 5-700 in each.  How about that local guy just running a few for this year, getting it cleaned up and giving you a little bit  in exchange?  Don't have any idea of what the local pasture rent prices are... here we pay in the neighborhood of 25/per acre per year for good grass and fences;  but we figure on 2 acres per animal avg..  Our feeder steer  prices here are a bit lower than areas that won't have as much hauling, to ship them to  other areas that will run them on pasture/wheat/ other crops then to go on feedlots.  It would be a better learning curve for you to maybe " rent it out " for the rest of the season and get a feel for it with none of the expense of owning them.  ( we are currently renting 2 different places that are 1,000 year and they are 27 acres for one and the other is nearly 90 acres.  The 27 acres has GOOD fences and the other has "wish they were there" type of fences that we just keep patching....) .  This will get you in with the guy a bit so that you might be able to get a few next year that are a little cheaper on an off week...

Yep, you just don't go to the sale barn/stockyards in flip flops.....


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## Alaskan

I can tell you why no one replaced the dude that retired....  you get paid peanuts as an extension agent.

It is fun work. 

As to what to do...... 

I thought wild pigs were open season?  My family place, where my baby sister lives, is in Comal, and it is open season there. 

What did you have questions about?

My sister  right now is working with the local agent (and ODD that she has one and you don't,  because Comal is all built up and almost all of the ranches are gone now and it breaks my heart.  Anyway. ...achem...) and she decided to take some government money.  The agent of course knows all of the current goodies that are up for grabs.  

I don't think I have ever taken a good look at the area you are in....how much rain do you get?  You are NE of Dallas?

I always found it interesting that the East Texas fellows had to work more with their cattle in regards to minerals and suppliments.  All of that rain washes out the nutrients from your grass.  Out in west Texas we might need 20 or 40 acres for one cow, but she is getting quality minerals with that grass.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I had to go out today so decided to take a run by the sale barn


Which salebarn?
At Paris Tx last Saturday:

*Saturday  August  5, 2017  *


Current Head Count:  945

*STEERS       *
(sold by lb)

*300 lbs and under:              $1.50 - $2.00*

*300-400 lbs:                         $1.35 - $1.95*

*400-500 lbs:                         $1.30 - $1.775*
*500-600 lbs:                         $1.10- $1.65*
*
HEIFERS*
(sold by lb)

*300 lbs and under:              $1.40 - $1.95*

*300-400 lbs:                         $1.30 - $2.00*
*400-500 lbs:                         $1.25 - $1.70*

*500-600 lbs:                         $1.05 - $2.20*

*600-700 lbs:                      *
*800-900 lbs:                       *

*SLAUGHTER*
(sold by 100wt)

*Cows:                                      $35 - $73*

*Bulls:                                       $75 - $102*

*STOCKERS*
*(per animal)*
*Stocker:                              $550 - $1350*
*Pairs:                                  $1000 - $1700   *

*OTHERS
(per animal)*

*Baby Calves:                       $150 - $380*
*Holstein Steers:             300-800lbs sold between  $.60- $1.10/lb *


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## Mike CHS

We paid $1.10 a pound for the steer we bought last fall and he was 720 lbs when we unloaded him.  That was almost a year ago but it looks like GB posted similar for this year.


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## Bruce

Make sure you don't shoot your escaped hog 
Seems like a lot more fencing would be needed to run a couple of steers. Once you get that done, maybe the local guy would "loan" you a couple to practice on.


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> We paid $1.10 a pound for the steer we bought last fall and he was 720 lbs when we unloaded him.  That was almost a year ago but it looks like GB posted similar for this year.


Some places, good 300-400lb beefsteers have crossed a good way over the $2/lb line.  Not everywhere, and it depends on the group and what a buyer wants. I do think prices are edging up a little..slowly. I don't expect to see any more $3/lb prices again anytime soon but that's probably a good thing. 
Good while it lasted for some folks, but man-- what a wretched disaster it took to make that happen! 

You can usually find a market report from the weekly sales in each state on line...not every sale barn reports tho.


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## Latestarter

Maybe it wasn't a "legit sales barn"... It's a local business establishment: Stone Livestock Commission, that holds sales every Tuesday starting at 12:30. I got there a bit after 2 and it had just finished. There were probably 20-30 truck and trailer rigs there from folks either hauling to or from the sale. I think I'll go next Tuesday just to sit and watch. Perhaps I'll contact the gent and ask if he'd be kind enough to come by and look at the pasture(s) and guide me on carrying capacity, and if he'd like to maybe rent grazing for some of his cows... Sucks being a 60 year old beginner. Would have been so much better had I been raised around this stuff. Oh well, it is what it is. Would be nice to be like some folks here on the forum who have had neighbors just "give them" calves  Wouldn't that be nice?

If I were to see my escaped hog I would shoot her in an instant, and enjoy every bite of her. Hogs ARE open season but unless you're hunting on your own land, you still need a hunting license to hunt them (even with a land owner's permission). I had hoped the DOW could point me in the direction of ranchers who had hog issues that might allow me to hunt their property. I've been here just shy of a year and haven't seen any fresh hog sign on my property. Doesn't mean they aren't there, but they aren't making their presence known. Just spoke with the DOW officer and he said he didn't know of anywhere we could hunt hogs for free but gave me the names and #s of 3 hunting ranches.

As to what questions I have, well, I'm so new to this pasture and hay management stuff, I don't hardly know what questions to ask...   I have weed issues, so the PH is obviously off. I'm not sure of what grasses and edibles are there or what to do to eliminate the weeds and what to plant to make for a good hay field/pasture.


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## greybeard

If it's Stone in Mt Pleasant, they've been around quite a while. They're listed on Tx Dept of Ag's market report page, but they don't have a link to recent sales results.

http://www.texasagriculture.gov/Home/ProductionAgriculture/MarketNews/TexasLivestockAuctions.aspx


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## Alaskan

Ok....here is a crash course. 


First, find yourself on a soils map.

Knowing what soil type you have, gives you the possible AU (animal units, or carrying capacity) that the soil type is capable of.

The first soil map that popped up.  Not the best, since it doesn't give a general carrying capacity for the soil types.  But maybe you can find your place.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth130336/m1/1/

Now don't laugh....I know the book below is old.   But dude, soil is soil.  This is a proper soil survey, and it gives a great description of the various soil types and what used to be grown on them, and what the soils grew well.  Unfortunately,  it doesn't include information about livestock, since that area was mostly just farmed, but still great information.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth19832/m1/

And here is a more modern version of the above.  I linked to the page that lists the Animal Units for each soil type.  Interesting how there isn't a column for rangeland ...you live in one crazy part of the state!  It just lists the probable production for three common pasture grasses, for each soil type.  This is actually very informative,  and will give you an idea of what you can aim for.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth130261/m1/136/?q=Animal unit

Below is a link to the book in full, lots of pages.  It will teach you lots if you decide to read through it.  It does have lists of the grasses found in each soil type.  Look under the woodland table area.  These lists will be very helpful.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNFWJJXe7VQaewUjSDbS1BrbWVRwuA

(the above looks horrid...if it doesnt work, tell me, and I will try again)

OK.... now your head is swimming with stuff.....

Write down the soil types that are on your property, and go back and read the info in the soil books about those soils.  Copy down the list of plants that it says should grow on your soil type.

Now you know what plants you might have, and might want.  You can Google those, and learn to identify them...and see if they are out there on your property.

The super scientific method to determine what you have out there, is to do a step count.

pick an area/field/pasture and walk across it.  Every time your right foot hits the ground, write down what plant the tip of your boot is pointing at. (or your big toe is pointing at if you are wearing flip flops???  )  Don't know the plant?  Take your phone and take a couple of photos.  You want a photo of how the leaf attaches to the stem, if it has seeds or flowers, that too.

When you get back home... play with the link below...it is a great plant id key.  You don't have to answer all of the questions.  Just hit the boxes that you know are correct, and it will give you whatever matches.  You can then look at the linked pictures and figure it out.  Read through the key before you do your step count and look up words you do not know.  That way you will better understand what kind of photos you need to take.

https://plants.usda.gov/plantkeys/texas_grasses/TEXAS_GRASSES.html

OK.  now you KNOW what is out there.

hurrah!

now it gets easier.

All plants are tossed into three groups, Increasers, Decreasers, and Invaders. (I think I remember that you know that...if you don't, then speak up and tell me, and I will explain).

Pick 1 or 2 Decreasers(if you have no Decreasers, pick 1 or 2 Increasers) and 1 or 2 Invaders, that grow on your place, and learn them.

in general, just remember what those 2 to 4 plants look like, and your management will be golden.

Every so often you walk across your land... if all of the Decreasers have been grazed short, move the livestock off.

If you see more invaders, figure out why they are moving in, and find a way to stop them.

Thats it.

Other than that you do different tricks to get the animals to walk farther, or whatnot to try to reduce the wasteland that all animals like to create around the water.

So, put the mineral feeder in one far spot, a shade shelter in another.  That helps to spread out the grazing pressure.


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## Alaskan

oh hay, HAY!  

Blah.

Well, the above info will also go over the common weeds in each soil type, and basic management of them, as well as the amendments usually needed in each soil type.

What soil types do you have?


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## CntryBoy777

Great info @Alaskan , really appreciate ya sharing that info...I sure have them bookmarked....


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## Alaskan

CntryBoy777 said:


> Great info @Alaskan , really appreciate ya sharing that info...I sure have them bookmarked....


You are welcome.

As you can tell, I enjoy being helpful.

Don't ask a question unless you are happy getting your ear talked off.


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## babsbag

Or you can live where I do and not worry about increasers, decreasers, or invaders as we have no soil. I grow rocks. Good thing that goats aren't much into grazing.  I am going to try and grow Tagasaste for my goats to browse on.

I paid about 500.00 for a quarter of a steer cut a wrapped. That works when you have no pasture.


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## greybeard

"Soil is soil"..
Not really..or more aptly, not always and not specifically. Topsoil type is determined by geology, erosion, sediment and...what is grown on it. It changes over time, and if man is involved, we aren't talking about long geological periods of time.
I've farmed, traveled, and ranched from West Texas to East Texas, and West Texas is probably about the same as it was 150 years ago, and not likely to change a whole lot any time soon. East Texas tho, is a different story. Originally, much of East Texas was covered in virgin pine forest, much of it long leaf pine and looked like this:
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/aldridge/images/loggingmain.jpg

and this. (actually an Alabama picture, but East Texas except for the Big Thicket looked exactly the same):





You could easily ride a horse thru it, or even a wagon. No underbrush, just rich clean soil covered in grass. Hundreds of thousands of acres. When the logging boom ended in the late 1930s, most of the land looked like this:
https://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/aldridge/images/stumps.jpg

This, was very rich soil, formed by thousands of years of tall pines. The stumps were removed, and cotton & corn was farmed extensively thru out East Texas until WW2.
With the forests gone, wind and water erosion took away the rich top soil, and thru most of East Texas, a leached out clay soil was prevelant, and remains that way today. In many places, that soil was replaced by substrata of depleted iron ore..a red messy clay. In my area, it's a tight silty light colored clay, interspersed with red clay.


The problem with the NRCS/USDA soil type maps for East Texas is the relatively large tracts each area encompassed, as well as the age of the maps. Many were first done before and immediately after the old growth longleaf pine forest was harvested, and most of the soil types have changed dramatically in the interim because of that harvesting and the (mostly) cotton cultivation that followed in the mid to late 19th century and into the early decades of the 20th century.




Many of the Texas maps still being used, were originally done in the 1930s, some just based on 1800s journals of various naturalists,  tho a renewed USDA effort was undertaken in the 1970s and 80s to update them. Even the updates tho, did a woeful job.
If you look at each map, you will see 2 things that should stand out. I will use one that Alaskan linked to for illustration:
1. The note that is on the bottom of every one of these soil type maps:




2. The scale. Will the map's info get you in the ballpark regarding your soil type? Yes..maybe, but only if you swing a mighty bat. 1:253,440 is a heck of a ballpark.
If the '1' correlates to one inch, that's 4 miles.





My own area here in San Jacinto county..My property is approximately where the blue and red rectangle is and is 124 acres. It is reported to be a (1) which is Pinetucky-Doucette. Very little of it is. It ranges, depending where you are on the property,  from a tight light loamy silty clay, to blackland gumbo, to rich well balanced loamy bottomland. 






You can work with what soil and vegetation you see and guess at the soil by what these maps show or  you can just have a soil assay done, (if a larger parcel, submit individual samples, not a composite sample) get rid of the junk flora, remediate your soil accordingly as the sample(s) results suggest and either plant any of the developed  forages or take advantage of the natural forages already growing.


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## Alaskan

@greybeard  So you wouldn't ever use those soil surveys?   the newer one I linked to was done in the 80s I think (don't wanna pull it up again,  that file is huge) and sure did look like it had a more detailed soil survey in it.

I think reading the historical stuff, as well as the more modern stuff, gives such a good understanding of the land one is on.

Rather like the history lesson that you just gave.


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## greybeard

Probably not.
The map you linked to and I posted a picture of the scale of,  was compiled in 1987. (date is right above the scale)
I need to know what my soil is like 'today'..not 30 years ago.
I get that info from the soil samples I submit every other year and just by observing it, especially in wet times.


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## Latestarter

Thanks to both of you. I'll be doing soil samples for analysis to be sure and then go back for guidance for amendments. It's kinda late right now to check out all the links but I will as soon as I can. I appreciate all of the input Al and GB. Trying to learn without going for a masters or spending 60+ years gaining experience.   Kind of a crash course on the basics...  I imagine I can get some of it figured out in this lifetime. Time will tell.

So I was at the store and they had ears of corn for .25 each. I bought 4 and cooked up 2 this evening for dinner. They were delicious and sweet. Also bought another watermelon and some more peaches. I'm all out of rib eyes and they haven't been on sale in a while.   Hope they are soon, I'd like a nice thick juicy steak (at a reasonable price). Golden Corral is advertising (buffet, all you can eat) prime rib and grilled skewered shrimp weekends for $13 & change... Maybe I'll make a drive down to Longview this weekend and partake. That's the closest, or the one in Marshall... I ate at that one once on the way back from Shreveport and wasn't all that impressed.

So I guess I've had a total of between 4-5 inches of rain in the past week and the pastures are now back to very green and very growing and due to that I need to get mowing.  Looks like more possible wet weather is forecast over the next several days. I have noticed the temp has been a bit lower recently, but the humidity has been up. and the sun is coming up later and going down earlier each day   Fall is coming   Still a ways off however.

I talked with @goatgurl and have arranged for breeding for my three adult goat girls. As soon as they show they have started heat cycles, I'll bring them back up to her for a prolonged conjugal visit with Choco. Planning on Sept/Oct time frame for Feb/Mar kids. The yearlings are still too young and too small to risk breeding them this fall, and since Choco is their dad, it would be line breeding in any case. I'd consider it if they were old/big enough, just to have a chance of more does to breed when I get my own buck, which I plan for next year, to service all of them. Oh well, hopefully they'll all have twin does and I'll double my herd.


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## Mike CHS

If you were closer we could definitely fix you up with watermelons and cantaloupe.  Your breeding plans sound solid.


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## CntryBoy777

Dad-gum Joe!!.....that means more Birthing too....just hope your up to all that.....and don't forget about the "Birthing Thread" also.....I remember ya being quite nervous about it before.....


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## Latestarter

Actually, I wasn't in the least nervous or worried... I didn't have to do any of the hard "labor"...  I mis-remembered that GG had said Dot was a 2nd freshener... In fact she was a FF. But because I thought she was a 2nd timer, I wasn't worried at all. And she did what she was supposed to do with no issues at all


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I ate at that one once on the way back from Shreveport and wasn't all that impressed.


I don't know the restaurant chain but in general I don't expect much (other than quantity) from "all you can eat" of a food that is typically pricey.

Maybe head over to NC and OFA, he's got some nice beef


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I don't know the restaurant chain but in general I don't expect much (other than quantity) from "all you can eat" of a food that is typically pricey.


Only exception to that I ever found was a little place down in Concan Tx that had "all-you-can-eat" grilled sirloin on Thursday nights. I put a hurtin on 'em..


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## Baymule

Those soil surveys are informative. I have a tiny pocket of deep sand, surrounded by red clayish iron ore dirt that turns all white livestock a rusty color. I'd rather have the sand. Even though the sand drives me nuts-both for trying to grow ANYTHING and for sticking to our shoes and tracking in the house. I never get the house clean, between us and 2 dogs, I am losing the battle......

The pasture grass of choice around here is bermuda followed by bahia. My sheep will eat bermuda last. That tells me that the favored monoculture of a green field of bermuda is not for me. They snip the seed heads of bahia and move on to eat their favorite weeds before coming back to eat the bahia, saving the worst-bermuda-for last. 

Joe, what is your goats favorite grasses?


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## CntryBoy777

@Baymule your sheep sound like my goats, with so much to choose from they avoid bermuda and don't eat the hay either.


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## Latestarter

My goats favorite is cereal, poured over the grass... This is a mixture of Honey Nut Scooters (Malt-O-Meal for Cheerios) and Tootie Frooties (Malt-O-Meal for Froot Loops).





CB - Bang- CM - Dot - CC - April      As the amount of cereal diminishes, Bang starts butting the others to get to her chosen fence hole 

It's one thing to butt the others when they're in the open... Whole 'nuther thing when they've got their heads stuck through a fence and can't move.



 
As you can see, my little wether CM isn't the brightest crayon in the box... He's easily cowed by the others and therefore does without unless I stay nearby and keep the others at bay.



 
So he ends up standing off to the side wondering what he's missing. It's only recently that he figured out how to put his head through the fence to get at the cereal. Up till he figured it out, he'd try to fit his head through the small gaps at the bottom to try and reach it. As you can see above, he's one level too high, aside from being outside the range of where the cereal is. I try to spread it much wider than their heads can cover so they stay in one place long enough that all can get some... even CM.

They eat the grass as a last resort. I can't even say for sure what grass they prefer as they eat leaves and bark first choice (after cereal of course) then 2nd would be the pellet and grain mix I give them twice a day, then whatever weeds look the tastiest, then the hay. I expect that until I get sheep and cows, I'll continue to have to mow the pastures.


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## Mike CHS

We tried hay from 4 different sources and we never did find anything that would keep them in good condition.  That's actually why I started cutting grass for them before I got the bigger paddocks closed in.  I have an almost full large round bale that we are cutting up for bedding for the chickens.


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## Baymule

My goofball sheep will eat bermuda hay, but leave the stemmy parts. They adore leaves.


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## CntryBoy777

I'm always cycling the hay from the goat house to the ducks, since it is used for bedding I will keep the fresh for the goats, but they just don't eat it, even in winter....


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## CntryBoy777

CM will probably change some as he matures and grows....I have noticed with the goats that they each will eat different things than another, or more of this than that....what Star used to do to the boys when they were young, they do it to her now.


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## Baymule

We're sure getting the rain! Pouring down, tornado warning expired thank goodness. Joe, looks like you're getting rain too. We got an inch yesterday evening, now we get more.


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## Latestarter

Oh yes, had a very big storm go over earlier. Lightning struck the dead tree in the goat pen. Blew the bark off it 3/4 of the way to the top. Had pieces of bark all over the tarp covering the hay and inside the pen. The tree was dead, so no moisture inside it to boil and explode, so it did minimal damage to the tree. I was sitting in my chair by the window and saw it hit. The goats were in their shelter and after it hit, maybe 5 seconds later, they all came running out into the rain and wandered around the pen in a daze for a bit. Then they realized they were getting soaked and came to their senses and headed back into the shelter. I checked them when I milked and fed them and they all seem fine. No damage done from what I can tell. 

Looks like the present wall moving east has split and is going north and south of me so I may be in the clear for now. I can hear distant thunder. sounds like artillery on a battlefield. More is forecast for through the night and tomorrow. Looks like the biggest part of the storm near you has passed and is to the south of you. Glad no tornado for you folks Bay.

So for dinner tonight I decided I wanted some of my home made spaghetti sauce. Here's what I'm eating between keystrokes:



 

Made a huge pot while my son and his family were here so they could take some (frozen) home with them. Has mild & sweet sausage/hamburger/mushrooms... grated Parmesan cheese on top... Wish I had grated Romano cheese... it's so much more flavor. Anyway, delish! Hope everyone has had a nice Saturday evening meal.


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## Baymule

My internet is off now, on the phone. TV is still on, it just scrolled across that the counties LS and @Devonviolet live in are under flash flood warning. Lots of lightening and thunder!


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## CntryBoy777

May be y'all will get a break from the extreme heat for a bit....just hope the humidity doesn't stiffle ya. Glad ya miss out on anything really bad.


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## Baymule

Haha we were posting at the same time. It's raining hard here now.


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## Baymule

The rain is slacking up and my internet came back on!! Trip was about to break the window to get in, so we brought him in the house. He is laying on the floor, still uneasy, but happy to be in here with us.


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## frustratedearthmother

Wow - sorry ya'll are getting blasted.  (but glad we're not)


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## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> Wow - sorry ya'll are getting blasted.  (but glad we're not)


That's ok, we just get wet sand, you get gooshy sticky mud.


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## frustratedearthmother

True dat!


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## Latestarter

Hope you've still got Trip all battened down... looks like a train is set up to pass over you Bay, one after the other, all night long, starting in about an hour or two. Looks like another wall headed toward me as well. There's a long east/west line right north of I-20 the start of which is right over/just leaving Dallas right now. Gonna be a loud wet night. Mel will be staying inside (pampered/spoiled/non-LGD dog)...


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## CntryBoy777

All that stuff must be from that hurricane that hit Mexico....I think the majority is suppose to stay south of us....hopefully...y'all certainly stay Safe.....that lightning bolt would've sure got my Attention....bet ya Jumped, too....


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## Latestarter

Didn't really have time to jump... the flash and the bang were simultaneous. Love T-storms, but not the prospect of getting hit by lightning. Have had several very close calls in my life already. When I was  a kid, we would run around outside in the rain. I was headed down the outside basement stairs to go inside, soaking wet, standing on wet concrete in a puddle at the basement door and a bolt about 3" in diameter went over my shoulder, through the door's glass window and hit the fuse box in the basement. Burned out every fuse in the box.


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## Latestarter

Well, about to head off to bed. Wanted a last look at the weather radar. Starting to hear an almost continuous rumble to the west so I know it's coming. Looks like the heaviest stuff is going to be right on top of @Devonviolet very soon. Might stay north of you @Baymule but you may catch the southern edge of it. Gonna be a rough night from the looks/sounds of it. Hope to sleep like a baby.


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## CntryBoy777

Just looked at the radar and it looks like ya are covered up down there with some pretty heavy stuff heading in....may have to breakout the pancho to tend to morning rounds....be Careful!!


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## Bruce

Oh, me too Fred. Doesn't look like it is going to be too pleasant in Mt. Pleasant.



Baymule said:


> The rain is slacking up and my internet came back on!! Trip was about to break the window to get in, so we brought him in the house. He is laying on the floor, still uneasy, but happy to be in here with us.



You might want to try a "thundershirt". @Beekissed had very good success using one with Ben.


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## Baymule

I slept like a rock last night. I guess we need a rainy day to make us stay inside and get some rest. LOL Between working around here and babysitting 3 grands, we are on constant go. The humidity kept us in under the AC yesterday, could pop a sweat standing under a shade tree doing nothing. Ugh.

It has rained all night, still raining, still thundering. Trip is on the porch looking in. @Bruce I don't think they make thundershirts large enough to fit Trip. I might have to make him one-eventually. All my sewing machines are crammed in a closet.

I caught my mean rooster last night and put him in a pet carrier for slaughter this morning. I am sick and tired of that mean bas%*^# flogging me. I go in his coop with a 4' club-batter up style. When it stops raining, he's going to freezer camp. Our 2 year old grand daughter (we kept all 3 for a couple days/nights so parents could get some sleep) said "Eat that mean rooster!" I asked her if she wanted some rooster soup and she said, "Yes I do!" So I guess next time she's here, we'll take him out of the freezer and cook him up. LOL LOL LOL

I just tried to post this, but we're getting another wave of hard rain that has knocked out the TV and internet. The TV is frozen on a frame that is showing tennis shoes for dogs and has a Lab sporting some really stupid looking tennis shoes, lying down on fake grass, panting and looking confused. Who does that to their dog? I guess people who live in concrete jungles and their poor dogs have nothing to walk on but scorching hot concrete. Not so with OUR dogs! They have dirt! Well that picture just went away, now it is an infomercial for cleaning products.

I just had to let Trip in. He was standing in a lawn chair, peering in with a hopeful look. I was rolling! He looked so funny, balancing his huge body in a lawn chair! He backed down very carefully when I opened the door and invited him in. We got a good laugh out of that one!

Internet is back on! Thanks LS for letting me ramble on.......


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## Devonviolet

DH just emptied the rain gauge, to make room for the continuing rain. So far, we have *4-3/4"*!!!   

I got up early this morning, to milk early enough, that we could make it to church by 9:00.  At that time, we had 3-1/2" and it was *pouring buckets!*

We have a small church, so schedules can be flexible.  I called & talked to pastor's wife, to let them know we would be waiting for the rain to let up before milking the goats. At that point they were getting even heavier rain than we were, so a decision was made to delay church. This Sunday is our monthly "Fellowship Dinner", and we don't want to miss that, now do we??!!!   

DH was already out in his rain suit, to feed the animals.  It's still raining, so I will wait a bit longer to go out and milk the girls.

In the mean time, I'm soaking my feet in Epsom Salt.  This weather has done a number on the arthritis in my feet - especially the right ankle.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure hope the feet get better....I've been dealing with the knee and foot during the past several days, so I understand the soaking.....hope the dinner goes well and the rain lets up enough for ya to tend to the girls and make it to that dinner.....


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## Baymule

One thing a rainy day is good for..... a duck egg frittata with minced onion, fresh mushrooms topped with Swiss cheese. And a whole wheat roll spread with home made peach jam.


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## CntryBoy777

......looks and sounds Yummy!!


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## Latestarter

I can picture poor, abused, Trip standing in a lawn chair staring in at the cool, dry, comfy owners with that puppy dog look begging to be let in.  But at the same time, yeah   Gotta love our dogs, they are special creatures.  You are welcome to ramble on here any old time you please. That is a LOT of rain DV... I just emptied my gauge and it was only 2 1/4 inches. Maybe it rained so hard that the rain drops blocked each other out from entering the gauge? Nah... really, the heaviest stuff has been N & S of me. Though it did come down buckets for a bit around 4:30am. The heaviest stuff now is all over in SW Arkansas and moving into NW LA.

I went out and milked an hour late this morning. They've all been hiding in the shelter all night. Time to replace the tarp on the shelter. Between the sun burning the fabric and causing pin holes that leak, and the goats jumping up against it outside, and pushing their heads through it from inside, I think there was as much water inside as outside. I laid down a big black trash can liner to kneel on while milking and felt my knee descending into the quagmire right through the bag. It's a wet squishy mess in there, even though I threw down a bunch of old hay yesterday to help with the dampness.

Sorry your feet are bothering you DV. Hope the soak helps. Also hope you're able to make it to church and the dinner. And as I typed that, Bay posted that picture of her breakfast... Very nice! I finished bacon and eggs w/toast before coming on here. I have to say I'm becoming less and less impressed with hormel pork products. Their black label bacon used to be my "go to" but more and more lately it seems they are packing "scraps" in there vice bacon strips. It's stringy and curls into impossible to cook evenly shapes. It doesn't taste the same either... I'm equally not impressed with the quality of their pork chops as they are cut unevenly, sloppy, and covered in "saw dust" bone meal and chips. Guess I'm going to have to get my own pork... soon.

OK, having typed all that, I'm recliner bound. Hope all have a wonderful Sunday.


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## Baymule

We walked to the rain gauge during a break in the drizzle. So far, 1 1/2 inches.


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## Baymule

It stopped raining, we went outside and slaughtered that mean rooster, he is now chilling in a bowl of ice with some salt sprinkled on him. 

Now the sun is out, steam is rising and I hear more thunder. 

Like you LS, we are in recliner mode. Butt drop disease will get you every time.....


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> One thing a rainy day is good for..... a duck egg frittata with minced onion, fresh mushrooms topped with Swiss cheese. And a whole wheat roll spread with home made peach jam.
> 
> View attachment 37663


Hey, your eggs look like what we had for breakfast, only ours had chunks of pork, rather than mushrooms, and homemade goat milk Chévre, rather than Swiss cheese.  YUMMY, none the less!  BTW! Ours was made with duck eggs, as well!


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## Latestarter

Yup, had sunshine and blue skies for a bit but started graying up and just heard thunder so came on to check the radar... Looks like the recliner is the best place for you right now Bay. Seems the thickest of it is right over you. DV probably isn't doing much better... Looks like she may be getting poured on as well. Looks like I may get some sprinkles but the thickest is south of me. I can see lighter sky behind the gray mass. Looks like good old @CntryBoy777 might be dealing with a little moisture problem over his way too.  YUP, we got plenty of humidity.


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh, we've had sprinkles to drizzles and back to sprinkles most of the day.....been keeping an eye on the radar and it seems the storms are weakening as they cross the river. We can use the moisture so not going to complain...for now...


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## goatgurl

@Baymule your breakfast looked yummy.  like you and @Devonviolet I had duck eggs for breakfast too, just eggs and toast with a cup of coffee.  dang I love those things.  @Latestarter  that spaghetti looks pretty tasty too.  i'll bring the salad and rolls.  
we have been having our share of rain too.  i'm not going to gripe because my pond still could use some more water.


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## Devonviolet

We had thunder & a few sprinkles, but nothing serious.  Before it was over this morning, we ended up with a total of 5 inches!  

We did make it to the fellowship meal in time to eat leftovers. No one, but me ate our yummy salad. Oh well, I enjoyed it!    And we did get to enjoy fellowship with our friends.  That was the most important reason to go anyway!!!


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## Bruce

You all better break out the emergency life rafts!!



Latestarter said:


> I can picture poor, abused, Trip standing in a lawn chair staring in at the cool, dry, comfy owners with that puppy dog look begging to be let in.


I'm SURE you can Joe!! Mel has probably melted you with the same look.



Latestarter said:


> I'm becoming less and less impressed with hormel pork products.



Given I can now only SOMETIMES find "uncured" (AKA nitrate free) bacon at ONE store, AND it isn't always satisfactory (you mean there is supposed to be some LEAN in there??) I've got my name in with Farmer Brown and his wife for a pork belly. Even if I just cure it with salt and maple syrup, no smoking, it will be:

in the freezer where I can find it
have a good meat to fat ratio
Mrs. Farmer Brown said the belly will be 10-12 pounds. That should last a good long time though I suspect it may be hard not to eat more than we should since there will be more in the freezer  Will be interesting trying to get reasonably thin and uniform slices without a slicer. Not sure I want to fork over for one since I've never had a need for one before.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya need a sharp knife and a hair pick.....of course a new never-been-used one....lay it on top of the chunk of belly and atrt your slices between the tines of the pick.....once they are started ya just need a steady hand until ya get to the end....use it to cook with as it will be thicker and will be great in some beans or peas....


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## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> All that stuff must be from that hurricane that hit Mexico....


No.
Remnants of TS Franklin are out in the Pacific ..West of Mexico.  This is all Pacific North West moisture laden cool air , getting trapped between frontal boundaries. It runs out of energy on it's way south, becomes stationary and begins to slowly slide off to the East.

Will probably happen again next week when the next PNW front moves down. (from this morning's sat/radar shot..I added the black arrows to show direction of movement)


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## CntryBoy777

Thanks GB....the local news never says anything about weather in other locations much....drives me nuts, and the radar shows the rain, but no dialouge....I don't use my phone to search stuff on the internet much....by the time I get thru here and going to bed my eyes have a hard time focusing, because the print is so small....and I wear trifocals....


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## Baymule

The sunshine didn't last long, it rained some more. Since Friday night we've gotten 3 1/2" of rain.


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## Latestarter

goatgurl said:


> we have been having our share of rain too. i'm not going to gripe because my pond still could use some more water.



I know you're not on here much so didn't ask... Glad to hear you've had some rain and the pond has been at least somewhat filled. Thundering again here right now and Mel does not want to be outside. He's not scared of the thunder, he just doesn't like to be wet and he knows the one often goes with the other. Was thinking about @AClark over there in extreme SW OK and it looks like she's getting some decent T-storm activity right now and there's another huge swath headed this way for late tonight or into tomorrow.


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## babsbag

What is rain ???


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## Devonviolet

​


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## Baymule

Whoop-de-do. More rain. I am ready to go outside and do something. It's not even a hard rain- just enough drizzle to make it miserable.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> he just doesn't like to be wet and he knows the one often goes with the other.


So he is a Livestock Goat Dog?? Seems most everyone's goats don't like the rain.


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Whoop-de-do. More rain. I am ready to go outside and do something. It's not even a hard rain- just enough drizzle to make it miserable.



Yeah, we have the same thing here. 0.15" so far.  Just enough to make it sticky and miserable out. (99% humidity)  

The weather radar shows a lot of yellow, orange and red headed our way. ACCU Weather says it's going to last another 2 hours. It's headed your way too, Bay, and I'm guessing @Latestarter will be getting it eventually too.

ETA:  I just looked at the map again & the system is big enough, that @goatgurl is gonna get some of this rain too.


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## CntryBoy777

Same here and it isn't suppose to clear out until later tomorrow....then the Heat is coming back....yep, still Summer....


----------



## babsbag

I really really like my dry summers. While it is beautiful to be green and lush all of the time dry summers have their up side...a lot of them.

I can leave tools outside if I'm not done with them.
I can leave hay and grain outside for the night if I'm tired
I don't get fungus in my garden
I don't have HUGE bugs or the quantity
Plans and events don't get ruined
No excuse to not do projects outside
No humidity
No mud (That is the best)

I really like not knowing what summer rain is.


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## Bruce

Nice and sunny here today  Not true most of the spring and summer though. The proof is in the solar generation charts. July was down from last year about 10%, Apr, May, June down 20% to 25% each. So far August looks to be following the pattern. Last August was .9 MWh, so far this month only .4 MWh and it is nearly half over.


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## CntryBoy777

Does any of your house circuts draw directly from the panels, or does it just feed back thru the meter to power company?


----------



## Devonviolet

Interesting.  I would love to install solar on our roof. But, the cost just isn't in our budget.  I checked into it, and if we were to put in solar panels, we couldn't sell electricity to the power company.

Our electric bills aren't all that expensive, in the broader picture, of things.  We are in the hottest part of the year, and our last electric bill was $128.  My daughter's old house, in Dallas used to have electric bills around $600!!!  Although our house IS about half the size of that house. Our house also has spray foam insulation in all walls, floors and inside the roof.  That helps as well.


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## frustratedearthmother

LS - look what I found for you:

https://austin.craigslist.org/grd/d/livestock-guardian-dog/6248220433.html

How cool is that?  (a little spendy though)


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## Latestarter

She's a pretty girl. Not very big/large... I don't think I really want a dog that nurses the kids... and yes...perhaps a bit pricey... I guess it's all a matter of how good an LGD she is. After all, she appears to be fully trained. That's worth something.


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## Bruce

The house uses what it needs from the panels, excess goes to the grid. If we are making less than current demand it will pull from the grid. Grid only at night of course; no storage, too expensive right now. 

And there is an often not understood thing: For the safety of the power company employees, the inverter shuts down if it doesn't sense line power. Why? because it could be sending power out to the net while they are working on a "dead" wire. Nevermind that there is a shutoff switch that COULD disconnect that feed and the installer told me the power company will likely throw it when they are working on a line. So WHY can't I use the power I'm making instead of being in the dark?? IF we had storage, we could use the power the panels are generating even during a power outage. 



Devonviolet said:


> I checked into it, and if we were to put in solar panels, we couldn't sell electricity to the power company.


Well that sucks, no net metering out your way? Solar must be pretty rare there except for people who are totally off grid. No way you could ever get ROI by not paying the power company only for the daytime power you use (and you "dump" the excess). That would work only if you NEVER generate more than you use which means you would be paying the power company for a lot of daytime power as well. And the installation of a tiny array would still be expensive unless you could do it yourself. 

This is the hourly graph for my arrays for yesterday. As you can see we actually used a tiny bit of their power (0.1 kWh and 0.16 kWh at 2 & 3 PM) even though we were making power at the time. I think DD1 was using the electric oven.


----------



## Mike CHS

frustratedearthmother said:


> LS - look what I found for you:
> 
> https://austin.craigslist.org/grd/d/livestock-guardian-dog/6248220433.html
> 
> How cool is that?  (a little spendy though)



That's about what we were seeing for trained dogs but we haven't seen any in quite awhile.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> I don't think I really want a dog that nurses the kids...


But just think - you wouldn't have to bottle feed!  LOL

But, in all reality, wouldn't be such a good thing knowing how baby goats butt udders - and I have no idea how dog milk compares to goat milk... too much to think about!


----------



## Latestarter

So I mentioned that the last time I let the goats out on leads, Bang broke her collar. Today I went by the pet store to see what they had for strong collars. The ones that they keep breaking are the strongest ones TSC sells, so that wouldn't work and wally world didn't have anything stronger. Anyway, I picked out a replacement for Bang (large) and then 3 small/medium of the same style for the kids. 4 collars total. When the clerk told me the total cost, I was like  $88.00 for 4 collars!  I asked if they were gold plated or something... She was like, you can buy one now and come back for the others later... I should have asked if they offered financing... Anyway, Dot and April have their old collars. April's had already been replaced... twice, and she now has the same/similar style that I purchased today. Dot is the only one who still has her original collar I bought when they came here. They had better NOT break these! 

The kids were pretty funny about theirs... They weren't sure what was "attacking" them   Then they had to stand facing each other and nibble on each others...

Yesterday evening after feeding I decided I'd better have a look at their hooves... Man, what a mess   I don't know why they are growing so fast and unevenly... I trimmed them back hard this time. To the point just before cutting into the quick and causing bleeding. I guess I'm just going to have to plan on this every other week or so until I get them back into proper shape. April was much better about letting me catch her and fasten her to the fence. All three of them put up very little fight once they realized I was working on their hooves. As soon as the ground drys out a bit, I have to do the kids for the first time. Theirs don't look bad, but I don't want them to get bad. They spend a lot of time jumping on and off the cinder blocks so maybe that's helping them keep theirs worn down a bit. I have to say, today my hand was sore... more so than it's been in a while... all that snipping.


----------



## Baymule

The joys of goat keeping!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Here very shortly I have to get mine done too.....Comet's is the worst of the 3, but it is time for it....and cleaning the pen and house too....
Wow!....those are pretty expensive....they oughta last a Lifetime and then some.


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## babsbag

My oldest two goats have been wearing the same collars for 8 years, I don't even remember buying them. Now days they all wear collars from the Dollar Store. Some last for years, some shorter, but I have only had one break while pulling on them. What in the world do your girls do to break their collars?


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> The house uses what it needs from the panels, excess goes to the grid. If we are making less than current demand it will pull from the grid. Grid only at night of course; no storage, too expensive right now.............


I'm still waiting for the long ago promised "power too cheap to even meter"..it'll be along shortly I'm sure, just like my flyin car they promised about the same time.

I WANT MY FLYIN CAR DA**IT!!


----------



## Bruce

Drive it off the cliff. It will fly for a short time


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## Latestarter

Most of the time when they break is when they are anchored on a 25' lead to graze. They either freak and run or just decide they want to go elsewhere and yank hard and the stitching that holds in the D ring pops. The D ring stays on the lead clip, the collar lands on the ground, and I then have to round whomever it is back into the pen so they don't wander off. The ones I bought now, the D ring is on a slider on the actual collar, not "fixed" position at an end where the nylon is folded over it and stitched shut. So they can't break the stitching on these. They've pulled so hard they've bent the corkscrew stakes used to anchor them in position. April and Bang are the two culprits. April was the worst because she was the least tame/most wild-flighty. They've also managed to successfully take their (old) collars off while rubbing on or sticking their heads through the fence. No idea how they managed that, but I'd find the collar lying on the ground and round up whichever one lost it and put the collar back on her. Mostly, that's been Bang as well come to think about it.

No sleep last night. Dozed off for about 45 minutes and woke up cold and wet from night sweats. Couldn't get back to sleep. So went shopping at wally world for some groceries I needed, notably frozen stuff that is better transported before the heat and humidity of daylight kicks in. Cheated and bought a couple tubs of ice cream... cookies & cream and chocolate chip. I have a big bottle of Hershey's syrup so I should be all set for my sugar and chocolate fix for at least a month. I did also buy more fruit and fresh veggies. Gonna make a mac salad... Dang it! Forgot the cukes!


----------



## babsbag

Yeah, I don't trust D rings very often. Usually when I have no use the collar it is just to lead them so it is the nylon and buckle that I need to depend on. The only time I use the ring is when I fasten them to a fence to trim hooves, so I am right there. Hope that these work better for you, they are certainly expensive enough. They need to sell a warranty on them.


----------



## Baymule

We try to not keep ice cream in the house. We eat it! We binge every once in awhile. Looks like you are ready for your sugar coma. LOL


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> We try to not keep ice cream in the house.


Same here. It's only here for very short visits, and then, almost as quickly as it appeared, it vanishes without a trace...Not sure what happens to it......but.....pretty sure it's...


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## CntryBoy777

Joyce doesn't eat much ice cream, and I'm not suppose to...but, she made some homemade the other day with duck eggs and it is really Good.....her blueberry jelly is wonderful with it. The jelly didn't thicken and set really well, so it is more like thick syrup....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yum!!


----------



## Mini Horses

It's dairy, it's protein, it's delish....what's wrong with ice cream?  Bring it on!!


----------



## Latestarter

I'll bet that "syrup" made from blueberries would be just about heaven on top of a bowl of ice cream. I love vanilla ice cream on warm blueberry pie


----------



## CntryBoy777

When all were here in Jun....they went to a local pick-your-own farm and all the families got blueberries. Joyce did the jelly with ours....it is really Good too....I'm gonna try some on some duck egg french toast....


----------



## Bruce

Sounds great!!


----------



## Latestarter

I'm from the north east and was always under the impression that blueberries were a northern, cold area plant/fruit. I was also under the impression that they didn't handle heat well. I guess there are now plants that have been developed that do well down here in the south. A tidbit from Wiki that I didn't know: "According to a 2014 report by US Department of Agriculture, Washington was the nation's largest producer of cultivated (highbush) blueberries with 96.1 million pounds, followed in order of "utilized production" volume by Michigan and Georgia, Oregon, New Jersey, California and North _Carolina_." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueberry    I thought Maine & Canada would be tops...   I used to pick them in my back yard as a kid... Who knew?

I should look into getting a few plants. Not that I'd get many/any of the berries... I'm sure the birds and other animals would get the lion's share.


----------



## CntryBoy777

As Mom always said....ya plant enough for personal use and to feed the birds too.........we used to pick and eat them when we lived in Maine too.


----------



## Beekissed

Baymule said:


> I don't think they make thundershirts large enough to fit Trip.



Bay, they make them to fit up to 110lbs, though that doesn't account for extra inches in girth due to hair.  Ben's is an AKC brand shirt that is XL, for up to 100 lbs. and it fits him like a too small shirt....but was still amazingly effective!   You could get the cheaper AKC brand like I got($16 and free shipping at Amazon) and then use it as a template for making him a bigger shirt.   WELL worth the money....Ben hasn't tried to run off the land since we used the shirt and this whole spring and summer has been one big thunderstorm after another.  

I wish I had gotten this brand shown below in the link as it has the strap at the back that keeps the shirt tugged "down"...that would sure help with keeping it positioned correctly on a too big for it dog.  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AX8XL...&linkId=ad157c1703c38c956c84e4c6cead5e68&th=1


The biggest problem with these shirts is the strap that goes across the front of the chest, especially with these dogs with lots of hair...it's a very snug fit.  The band that goes around the belly has plenty of room, though, and that's the most important part.


----------



## greybeard

My b-i-l raises blueberries about 6 miles from me. Has a tough time keeping the birds and squirrels from getting most of them.


----------



## Bruce

One more thing for the to do list Joe - make a bird proof enclosure for your blueberry plants.


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## Latestarter

Have to get the plants first, then give them a few years to grow. They like acid soil and with all the oaks and juniper/pine/cedar I have around here, they should be happy and productive.


----------



## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> One more thing for the to do list Joe - make a bird proof enclosure for your blueberry plants.


Wow Bruce!  You got me thinking . . . I've been wanting to plant some blueberries, but didn't want to fight the birds for the berries. So, I looked online and found this easy solution:

http://littlehouseinthesuburbs.com/2014/07/easy-blueberry-bush-bird-protection.html


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## Baymule

That's a great idea @Devonviolet ! I like that and PVC makes for some good building material.  

Thanks for the input @Beekissed Trip is really scared of loud noises. 

We go to a U-Pick blueberry farm and there are plenty of blueberries. Plenty for everyone, so I guess the trick is to plant lots of blueberries! We didn't pick many this year, the freezer was full of pork@


----------



## Bruce

I made one like that over the 3 currant and 1 gooseberry bush this spring. Why? Because I already had the 10' 1" PVC. We'll see how it holds up. PVC will degrade in the sun. I threaded the pipe through the netting, yeah that was fun. 

A couple of years ago my Dad and I made a covering for the 3 blueberry bushes (*) using old plastic step in posts and some scrap ~5/4 x 5/4 wood for a horizontal top. Covered it with bird netting. Worked OK for 2 years, then last winter the whole thing collapsed when the plastic posts broke under the weight of the snow on the netting. I put in T-posts and four 16' cattle panels this year. It is on a slope so the tops of the hoops don't line up all nice. Haven't got it covered yet. Not sure if I want to mess with the bird netting or cover it with chicken wire. I'm thinking that the pollinators could get in more easily through chicken wire. With bird netting, I might have to uncover in the spring?? The netting is a PITA to work with and is very weak. I put some up vertically (using zip ties) to keep the chickens out of the garden and the wind ripped it down. I've replaced all that with chicken wire which, incidentally, is more visible to the birds and they don't get caught in it.

* they were here when we bought the place in Nov '11. They really don't do much, very small plants. Maybe they are dwarfs or something.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yes PVC does, but it takes time for that to happen....and the replacement cost is "Astronomical", that is certainly worth some consideration.....
@Bruce if ya use duct tape and make sleeves for the PVC there isn't any threadding of the net needed.....


----------



## Baymule

Or just use zip ties.....


----------



## Bruce

The zip ties are what did in the bird netting. As much as the bird netting is "all holes", having a skinny piece of plastic fixed to objects about 10' apart doesn't work well when the wind howls. It is amazing how much surface area all those little "strings" add up to. Maybe you have sturdier netting down in TX?  



CntryBoy777 said:


> if ya use duct tape and make sleeves for the PVC there isn't any threading of the net needed.....


I suppose that could work though I'm not quite sure how this tube stays stuck to the netting. Would need a big area of NO wind to get the tubes stuck on. And good eyes, I about go blind trying to follow a straight line on that netting.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, spent the afternoon mowing and pounding T-posts. Man am I tired. Still a few more posts to go to finish the outline. Hope to knock those out tomorrow. After that I'll ge to work on the "H" and diagonal bracing, then it will be time to stretch fence. Not too far off I guess. Then hang gates and I can let the goats out. Stopped pounding posts right about 7pm which is when nightly goat chores take place. After that, I showered and then didn't feel like making dinner so went to Chili's and had buffalo wings and a 2 item dinner. I had 1/2 rack of ribs and chicken tenders. Took an aleve and muscle relaxer before I left for dinner and had a double screwdriver w/dinner. Feeling a bit woozy right now so finishing this and I'm off to bed.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, if ya are protecting the berries from birds, then it doesn't have to be up yr round, just when the berries are on the canes....so, if ya put 4....1 1/2" PVC in the ground, however deep, will allow a 3/4" pipe to slide into the larger PVC.....when ya take down the 4 poles be sure to put caps on the pcs in the ground......you can use a Tjoint and put support braces between the legs and as an anchorpoint for the duct tape....ya wrap the tape from pvc to the net....overlap the 2 ends on opposite sides of the net and press them together around the netting and to the sticky side of opposite end. Think of it as a dining fly and fold the 2leg-ends together and roll to other end a bungee strap and it is ready for next yr....unless there is damage.....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Don't blame ya one bit, LS....after a day like that and the meal ta boot I'd be looking for that pillow to talk to, also....


----------



## Baymule

We got up early yesterday and worked all morning, knocking off at 11:30. Took showers and became comatose in recliners. YOU went out and worked in the afternoon heat! You gotta be careful with that......we don't want you falling out and becoming fire ant bait.

Looks like you've got the morning off. It's sprinkling here, but the red, yellow and orange on the radar is going over you and @Devonviolet. We are up early to go battle the green briars, don't know if the sprinkling is going to turn to rain or not.


----------



## Baymule

It turned to rain.  Guess I'll do laundry.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh yeah... we got rain. Figured I'd check radar to see if I could postpone goat chores till after it stops but it's backed up for several hours, so, out in the rain I'm gonna go. From what I'm seeing it extends to south of I-20 so you're gonna be in it (as will DV) for quite a period as well. Look at the bright side... no drought here  Oh well... time to go get wet. (Already an hour later than norm ).


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya know it is really funny that the goats won't get in the rain, but they sure don't care if you wish to or not.....they will scream at ya letting ya know you are Late with the pellets..


----------



## Devonviolet

CntryBoy777 said:


> Ya know it is really funny that the goats won't get in the rain, but they sure don't care if you wish to or not.....they will scream at ya letting ya know you are Late with the pellets..


Boy, isn't _that_ the truth!

Falina watches the back door like a hawk! If I _quietly_ open the door to let the cats in, she is hollering like she's dying!!!


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> From what I'm seeing it extends to south of I-20 so you're gonna be in it (as will DV) for quite a period as well. Look at the bright side... no drought here



Our ground, here, was starting to get 1/2" cracks. So, I'm guessing all this rain is a good thing.  

Right now, we have 1-1/2" in the rain gauge with thunder & heavy rain. The animals are going to have to wait a bit.

DH didn't sleep well last night. He took one look at the radar & went in to take a nap.   When it slow down a bit, I will go in and wake him up.


----------



## Baymule

Still raining. I woke up at 3 AM, we got up at 5 AM, intending to work outside. Not. Farrier was coming at 1:00 to trim horses hooves, he's still out working cows-in the rain. Poor guy. We'll set appointment for next week.


----------



## Latestarter

I rarely sleep at night, just doze off and on. I too was up around 3:30 and the rain had just started. I didn't even try to grain the goats this morning... I milked Dot & did get CC her bottle and stood inside their soggy shelter to give it to her. I'm sure they'll survive missing one meal. Like their owner who could probably survive missing a week of meals  They are outside now eating grass/weeds and hay. They'll get their pellets again for dinner after I milk Dot. I've tried to go back to bed a few times recently and can't get back to sleep but have no problem dozing in my recliner. Hope the DH is able to get that extra rest DV.

So the radar shows just about all the visible stuff has moved to the east. Still cloudy here though and the sky has some pretty heavy gray to the west. Haven't gone out to check the rain gauge, but we got quite a bit it seems. So I went and checked and we got 1.5". Guess I won't be doing any more mowing until after we've had several dry days. Aside from the bit I mowed yesterday, the entire mowable property needs it now. Despite the fact that pounding T-posts is work, it was substantially easier yesterday due to the previous rain. Though it was hot and humid, it didn't "seem" as bad yesterday... Maybe it was the breeze, or that some of the posts were in the shade, I don't know. I mean I sweat out some serious water, but never really felt "weak" from the heat or anything. Over the course of the afternoon and evening I probably drank near a gallon of water and iced tea. 

Anyway, nice to know that the ground should remain soft for quite a while forward after the added rain. Weather forecast after today is 20-30% chance off and on for the next week. The final batch of posts will be fun for another reason: they'll be around big trees and I'm sure I'll have to deal with roots. The last bit is replacing the existing yard fencing and there are already old rusty T posts in place. I'll check and see if I can use them first but believe it will be best to replace them. The power company came a week or so ago to trim the trees around the house that were growing in and around the power lines. I took down some of the barbed wire fencing around the back side of the house so they could drive their bucket truck in for access. They started wiggling one of those T posts to remove it and it snapped off right at ground level, so I know they are old and not that strong. Can't see putting in new fencing on posts that won't outlast it. I'm going to have to replace 3/4 of the T posts in the front pasture as well when I get to that.

Right now I'm kind of tired, stiff, a bit sore, and hungry for something I can't really identify. It's already 2:30 and will be dinner time before too long. Maybe I'll go out to eat again. I'm thinking I would enjoy a steak but too late to thaw one for tonight and don't want to pay for one when I have some in the freezer. I bought some more ears of corn, I think I'll have a couple of those for dinner. Hope everyone has had a great Thursday.


----------



## CntryBoy777

When ya think about placing the posts around the trees, the further ya place them from the trunk the fewer and smaller the roots are....within 2-3' of the trunk is the root ball/mass and is a very big headache....IMO....hope ya can get some rest, I too have found that "Comfortable" has become an elusive target to hit, so rest when it comes and wherever ya can find it....


----------



## babsbag

CntryBoy777 said:


> Joyce doesn't eat much ice cream,



I shouldn't eat much ice cream either but someday I plan on selling goat milk ice cream so I call it "market research". Actually mine will be gelato, I can't call it ice cream as the goat milk doesn't have enough cream to make it legal. My favorite brand to research is Talenti.


----------



## Devonviolet

DH slept for about two hours and felt much better when he woke ue had a break in the heavy rain, so we went out to tend to the animals. 

Of course, we got another torrential downpour while we were out there. But, this time it didn't last very long.  During the rain, I found out the tarp, on our hoop hut, has holes in it.  So, now we need to find either UV safe plastic or tarp, to replace it.


----------



## Baymule

You sure don't want the fence up against any trees. We had 16 acres in Livingston and we stapled wire to trees. REALLY a DUMB thing to do! Trees die, they fall down, so does the fence.  On one of our property lines is a HUGE pine tree. The neighbors didn't want it cut, so we put T-posts about a foot out and went around it. Most of the tree was on our side, so they didn't lose much.

You really need to drive all the posts you can now while the ground is soft. You will be glad you did.

We got 2 1/2" today. Combined with the 3 3/4" we got this past weekend, we've gotten over 6 inches. It sure beats the heck out of a drought and 100 degrees! 

@Devonviolet, I wonder if you could get a canvas painter's tarp and paint it with polyurethane or a waterproof finish.


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> Actually mine will be gelato, I can't call it ice cream as the goat milk doesn't have enough cream to make it legal.


Do you have a recipe for Gelato?  I would like to make some.  Since I have a cream separator, can I assume that the rule about fat content doesn't apply?

If it needs to be heated, I won't be able to eat it though.  Lately I've noticed that the pasteurized milk causes a lump of mucous in my throat. It been coming on slowly, and getting progressively worse. This what peanut butter does to me, and I am allergic to peanuts.  Raw cow's milk doesn't do that to me. So, I'm starting to think low temp pasteurizing destroys the enzymes, that I need to digest the casein in the milk.  I read, _and_ was told low temp pasteurizing doesn't destroy those enzymes.  I can drink raw cow's milk, but not commercial cow's milk, which is pasteurized. So, I'm going to stop pasteurizing my milk.  We shall see how that goes. 

Anyway, now I don't think I will be able to make cheeses, that have to be heated to 160-180*F, like Ricotta, or custards, for that matter.   This recent batch of Ricotta, that I made, caused the lump, in my throat, BIG time!!!  If I eat bulky foods after I get that lump, food gets caught in my throat.  Just ask @Latestarter and @Baymule how bad it can get. It happened when we ate at Latestarter's house. And I couldn't finish my dinner.


----------



## Baymule

Devonviolet said:


> Anyway, now I don't think I will be able to make cheeses, that have to be heated to 160-180*F, like Ricotta, or custards, for that matter.   This recent batch of Ricotta, that I made, caused the lump, in my throat, BIG time!!!  If I eat bulky foods after I get that lump, food gets caught in my throat.  Just ask @Latestarter and @Baymule how bad it can get. It happened when we ate at Latestarter's house. And I couldn't finish my dinner.



There, there now..... (comforting hug)  .......you just keep on making all that wonderful cheese  and I'll be happy to eat it for you!  It won't make a lump in my throat!


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> I wonder if you could get a canvas painter's tarp and paint it with polyurethane or a waterproof finish.


That's a thought.  Since the tarp is a cotton fabric, I wonder if the high humidity, around here, will cause it to mold?  Also, the tarp would need to be 8x12'.  I can't be around wet paint (I react to the chemicals in it), so DH would have to roll the polyurethane on it.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I'm thinking I would enjoy a steak but too late to thaw one for tonight


For the future, I've had good luck putting frozen steak in a ziplock bag and putting that in hot tap water. Change the water frequently so it stays hot. Way better than defrosting in a microwave which always cooks the outside some. 


Baymule said:


> you just keep on making all that wonderful cheese  and I'll be happy to eat it for you!


@Devonviolet you have your first customer! I'm sure she will be willing to pay a premium price for your premium product


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> There, there now..... (comforting hug)  .......you just keep on making all that wonderful cheese  and I'll be happy to eat it for you!  It won't make a lump in my throat!



  ​


----------



## Devonviolet

@Devonviolet you have your first customer! I'm sure she will be willing to pay a premium price for your premium product [/QUOTE]
Well, well, now!  I'm liking THOSE prospects!!!  

I'm figuring if I charge a conservative $4.00/ gallon for my milk, and it takes three gallons to make a pound of Mozzarella, that's $12. Add cost to heat the milk, $2/16lb bag of ice, to cool it down, and my time, we're up to $15/lb, for Mozzarella cheese.  N-I-I-I-CE!!!  

   Somehow I don't think I'm going to get too many takers at that price.


----------



## Bruce

Does the mozzarella use the milk as it comes out of the goat or is there a separation step? Maybe there is a secondary product you could sell to keep the price of the cheese down.


----------



## Baymule

don't forget to charge for your labor-time caring for and milking the goats, time pasturizing and cooling the milk and time making the cheese.....whatcha' reckon we're up to now on price? 

LS you can thaw a steak rather quickly using an iron skillet.  Iron is a great conductor of heat or cold and will transfer the cold from the frozen steak to the skillet. I have run hot water over the skillet to warm it up, so it would thaw a steak faster!


----------



## Mike CHS

That sounds like some tasteful research.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

And...just so ya know and can have the chance to make your own decisions... consider cooking frozen steak.  DH and I tried it a couple weeks ago and it was awesome!

https://www.cooksillustrated.com/how_tos/8741-the-science-of-cooking-frozen-steaks


----------



## CntryBoy777

We have a NuWave oven....it cooks from frozen to fully cooked pretty good....tho, I don't prefer chicken cooked in it ...it does a Great job on pork tenderloin.............most of the beef we eat is burger or roast, but only occassionally....ya know....the Heart thang and cholesterol.


----------



## Latestarter

Might give that a try on the frozen steak cooking FEM, thanks for the link. I don't typically go through all that pan searing and oven cooking though... Not even sure how to use a meat thermometer...   I'm a season and rest, then straight to the grill kinda guy. Mostly I'll take the meat out in the morning when I get up and set it in the sink to thaw. If I sleep in or forget, I'll set it on a plate outside (plenty warm enough out there). Once thawed, I'll season it in the bag and let it set till time to cook. I sear while cooking and don't end up with the gray band they mentioned.   I think I do a nice steak justice... Bay and DV as well as their DH's can vouch for me I think...


Sorry you're now having problems with pasteurized milk DV... That kinda stinks. I'll confess I'm lazy and don't pasteurize mine... never have right from the start. I drink mine raw (but filtered of course). Just used a quart to make flan the other night.  I guess it got pasteurized during the cooking process since you have to bring it to a boil, but it's still very tasty   The box of flan mix had a best if used by date of Aug 2015  So I'm 2 yrs late!?!? Still tastes just fine! I have some other OLD packages of pudding... I think they may have "expired" last century   Those will be the next ones I make. I'll let you know how they taste when I do them.   Anyway, I hope you're try with raw milk works out well for you.


----------



## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> Does the mozzarella use the milk as it comes out of the goat or is there a separation step? Maybe there is a secondary product you could sell to keep the price of the cheese down.


Mozzarella can be made with skim milk. But the best cheese is made with whole milk. That is the way I make my mozzarella. @babsbag likes to add cream to the whole milk, for an even richer cheese.  However I haven't tried that.  Right now, all my cream, from the cream separator, goes to making butter.  YUM!!!

There are really two whey biproducts, from making mozzarella.  I have found that I can ladle off the initial whey (once the curds settle to the bottom of the pot), which is more like yellow water.  When I start pulling the curds out, the whey has more milk solids, so it looks more like skim milk.

I have tried listing it on Craig's List, and have only gotten one call. That guy is going to come on Saturday, from two hours away (Irving, TX, West of Dallas).  

He wants six gallons of whey and/or skim milk.  He also is interested in buying our two wethers.  If I was selling a dairy goat, for sale, he would buy that too.  Although even if I did have a dairy goat to sell, I probably wouldn't sell it to him.  He obviously doesn't have any experience with goats, and I would want to sell to someone who would already knows how to care for a dairy goat, so she would be taken good care of.


----------



## babsbag

I don't have a recipe for the gelato, it is on my to do list. 

As far as thawing meat...these things are amazing.  There are a lot of brands, I don't know that any one is better than others. 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NCV2VQ...t=&hvlocphy=9032623&hvtargid=pla-309876333775


----------



## babsbag

@Devonviolet That is really curious about the pasteurized milk, it sounds like an allergy but the FDA would tell you that you aren't allergic to milk just because it is pasteurized. Can you take Benedryl? It would be interesting to take some before drinking the milk and see what your reaction is then. I have heard of people being allergic to pasteurized milk but I never really believed it. I would think that an enzyme being destroyed would manifest itself in stomach problems more than an immediate reaction. Very interesting...

I am selling pasteurized because the liability, the testing requirements, and the thought of being shut down and dumping milk for days if someone complains is more than I want to deal with.


----------



## Baymule

Yes. DH and I can vouch for LS's steak cooking ability. 

Joe, if you want to host another party, I'll bring dessert......


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> @Devonviolet That is really curious about the pasteurized milk, it sounds like an allergy but the FDA would tell you that you aren't allergic to milk just because it is pasteurized. Can you take Benedryl? It would be interesting to take some before drinking the milk and see what your reaction is then. I have heard of people being allergic to pasteurized milk but I never really believed it. I would think that an enzyme being destroyed would manifest itself in stomach problems more than an immediate reaction. Very interesting...


@babsbag Many years ago, I had an ALCAT blood food allergy test.  I hadn't looked at the results in several years, So got the results out the other day. One item that showed up, was casein. 

I know that raw milk has the enzyme, that helps digest casein. I was told "low temp pasteurizing" (~145°F) doesn't destroy that enzyme, but high temp (165°F+) does. That is why I was doing low temp pasteurizing. Now I'm thinking that even low temp kills the enzymes. 

Just last night I was researching raw milk vs pasteurization, regarding casein & enzymes (so far, not much found), and I found something that said anything over 118°F kills the enzymes.   So, it seems the info I previously received was wrong.

Looks like I need to do a lot more research! I love my girls and their milk!  I don't want to have to give them up!  



Latestarter said:


> I think I do a nice steak justice... Bay and DV as well as their DH's can vouch for me I think...


Oh, ABSOLUTELY!  LS put on quite a show grilling our steaks, with sizzling and flames flaring!  It was cooked to perfection!  One of the best steaks I've ever eaten!  It makes my mouth water just to think of it!!!     I would accept another invitation, for grilled steak, in a heartbeat!!!  



Baymule said:


> Joe, if you want to host another party, I'll bring dessert......


I'll bring cheese!!!


----------



## animalmom

@Devonviolet, regarding waterproofing a cotton fiber tarp... can you use linseed oil?  Oil cloth is made using a cotton fabric and soaking it in linseed oil and is water proof.  Just a thought.


----------



## Devonviolet

Now, _that's_ a thought, @animalmom!  Do you know where I can get a gallon of linseed oil for a reasonable price?


----------



## animalmom

@Devonviolet http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-gal-Boiled-Linseed-Oil-GLO45/100203798 $23.96
... your local Home Depot may vary on the price.

While I have you... on a totally different topic; can I use 90% rubbing alcohol to make orange oil?  All the recipes I've read call for vodka.  What's the difference?  Do you know?


----------



## Baymule

Rubbing alcohol ingredients are petroleum derived. Vodka is grain alcohol. One you drink and one you definitely don't drink.


----------



## AClark

Rubbing alcohol is methanol based - kind of like when they tell you moonshine can make you blind. That's from improper distilling and methanol being in the finished product, instead of ethanol. Ethanol is what is is whiskey/vodka etc.

If you want to make it stronger,I'd suggest using Everclear.


----------



## Latestarter

I DO plan on inviting those interested for another grilling escapade... Right now though, it's just too danged hot and humid to enjoy it. Now if I had a cabana and a nice swimming pool we could cool off in, it might be another story altogether   Looking at a target time of late September for another get together. The other issue is there haven't been any sales on (good) rib eyes of late. If I'm gonna have folks over for steak (or grilled anything), I want to make sure it's the best. 

Speaking of which, I have a steak sitting out on the back porch rail (in a zip lock) defrosting. Guess what I'm having for dinner! Just checked with HEB and they do have the good rib eyes at a lower price right now. The best rib eyes are $20/pound (select prime), & that's a bit out of my price range I'm afraid. Maybe I'll take a detour coming home from Shreveport on Monday and check them out. The nearest store to me is in Carthage. They taste just as good coming out of the freezer as they do fresh IMHO


----------



## babsbag

Casein allergy...well you wouldn't want milk from the line my buck is from as that is the point of his whole breeding, higher level of casein. You may find that your reaction to their milk is different at different times of their lactation cycle. Did your test say what kind of casein you are allergic to, cows and goats are different.


----------



## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> I DO plan on inviting those interested for another grilling escapade... Right now though, it's just too danged hot and humid to enjoy it. *Now if I had a cabana and a nice swimming pool we could cool off in, it might be another story altogether *  Looking at a target time of late September for another get together. The other issue is there haven't been any sales on (good) rib eyes of late. If I'm gonna have folks over for steak (or grilled anything), I want to make sure it's the best.



Got a water sprinkler?


----------



## CntryBoy777

A couple of blocks of ice in the Hot tub might work....


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I think they may have "expired" last century  Those will be the next ones I make. I'll let you know how they taste when I do them.



Assuming you are still alive afterward 



Latestarter said:


> The other issue is there haven't been any sales on (good) rib eyes of late. If I'm gonna have folks over for steak (or grilled anything), I want to make sure it's the best.


Invite @OneFineAcre, maybe he'll give you a "BYH Friend" price


----------



## OneFineAcre

Bruce said:


> Assuming you are still alive afterward
> 
> 
> Invite @OneFineAcre, maybe he'll give you a "BYH Friend" price



You can't get beef from the grocery store like home raised because of the dry aging.
Beef in the grocery store is wet aged for about 3 days which isn't really aged.

You can actually buy beef from the grocery store and dry age it in your fridge if you want to go thru the effort> it is worth the effort if you are so inclined.

Also some of these  methods of cooking a steak like reverse searing actually adds a dry age to the steak.

It really takes a lot more effort and a lot of folks don't see the need to do it but it's definitely worth it.


----------



## Devonviolet

I asked a question, here on LS journal, about pasteurized milk causing casein allergy/sensitivity. It started to turn into a discussion, which is not pertinent to LS, so I moved it to my journal:

Devonviolet Acres


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I do have a hose and spraying attachments... there's also the stream down back, but it's a little dirty, buggy, and not all that deep unless it's just after a really good rain.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Could always pick sides and have a squirt gun and water balloon fight....


----------



## Latestarter

Well Fred, I'm hoping when the BBQ date is set that you and Joyce will be able to make the trip and join us for some good eats. So I'll let you bring a squirt gun if you feel so inclined


----------



## CntryBoy777

I certainly wouldn't be opposed to being there, but we'll just have to see what "Time" brings between now and then. However, it probably would be just me cause one of us has to be here to tend to the animals.....


----------



## AClark

I sympathize with the BBQ's. We had one in May and it was so hot it was unreal. We played horseshoes almost in the dark because we waited so late to start playing. Went to a friends BBQ last weekend and again, nuclear hot out. With the humidity so high, it's like walking out into a sauna. I turned the hose and sprinkler on for the kids at ours.


----------



## Latestarter

Ummm Fred... I won't tell anyone if you don't, but I'm pretty sure if in the morning, before you hit the road, you leave water and hay out for the goats and water for the chickens and ducks, they'll fend just fine until the next morning...  Not like you have any animals that you need to milk, which is something that really can't be skipped... Pretty sure the cats can fend for themselves as well, and even a dog could if you just leave them a bit of food and plenty of water. justsayin'


----------



## CntryBoy777

There are more reasons than 1 for it being like that cause a few things have to happen, before even I would be able to come. Between now and the first of the yr I have to come up with $1750....the "Bomb" I talked about on my thread....this takes most all available cash that we have, and either another vehicle has to be gotten....or, a car rented. So, I'm sure not oppossed to coming....but, things have to playout right for their to even be a chance that I could....but, ya never know. Oh, btw....I'm "Country", so I don't need an expensive steak....a balogna sandwich, dogs or burgers on the grill, even a PBJ will suit me fine....it'd be the company and "Vizten" that I'd be coming for anyway.....


----------



## Latestarter

Not a matter of "need" but desire for the food... But yes, the food is secondary to the company!  There's a standing invite for most who've visited my journal, though I understand it's not possible for most. Not wanting to drag it back out again, but I must have missed this bomb you're referring to. My memory isn't what it once was... Sorry in any case and I completely understand. I have home owner's insurance and property taxes coming up right around the corner...close to 4 grand & way too soon. I do have hopes (pipe dreams really) to become a lottery winner, and now would be a really good time with the PB pot well north of 1/2 a billion... cash take home after taxes would still be over a quarter billion... Might be able to pay the bills with that. Maybe even make some more new (and much bigger) bills to pay  I actually think about all the folks I could help with it...

So I finally opened the electric bill. Couldn't put it off as it's due in 4 days. OUCH! $218.00 One of the side benefits to having family visit for 2 weeks. Grand kids running in and out (of the house and refer), daily laundry, etc. I'm sure the next water bill is going to be a shocker as well. Fall isn't coming fast enough where I can turn the AC off. When I do my bathroom stuff in the morning, I generally stand by the window and open it for a bit to get a breath of "fresh" air. It's still coming in warm and moist in the shade of the west side of the house, even before the sun has had a chance to heat up the day.  Probably another month before I'll be able to open the house at night again. Really looking forward to that.

I have an Dr. appt over in Shreveport tomorrow. It's before lunch, so I'll need to get an early start on goat chores. I try to schedule for early afternoon but the clinic I'm seeing finishes at noon...  I should have had a job like that when I was working... Between the military and the jobs I had after that it seems I was destined to work 10-12 hour days. At the last job I had, that I walked away from, I routinely worked longer than that. The OT pay was nice, but I would have gladly worked 1/2 the hours for a better base pay.

Yesterday I made a macaroni salad. That ought to last me a few days. While I was at it I looked at the other puddings I had mentioned. The next I'll make was best used by 2012. I have 2 others, one was best used by 2005 and another had no best used by date (so it is definitely from the 20th century). Looking forward to taste testing  The two oldest are lemon and that's not one of my favorites, which explains why they still haven't been used. So when all you folks come for a visit and I serve up lemon pudding pie, don't be concerned! 

Hope y'all have a great rest of your Sunday and a great start to the coming week.


----------



## CntryBoy777

There wasn't much posted about it, so don't be too hard on yourself or memory about that...I had just mentioned in a sentence that my sister dropped a "Bomb" on me....and ya mentioning taxes brings up another $500+ to add to that amount. Our electric bill is $250 this mnth...got it this past week, that does include the trailer....so, will be vacating it totally and throwing the main breaker on it. I'm starting to think about selling it  and getting what I can out of it. I would enjoy helping others too, if we were to win something like that, but first ga have to get a ticket and they are not available locally....have to go to Memphis to get one...and it is getting really rough up there.


----------



## greybeard

We (wife, sisters, extended family from here) spent the weekend at a family reunion up in the northern part of Texas, Linden--Cass County. We smoked brisket, ribs, pork loins and ate out under the pines Sat afternoon. It was very enjoyable. Some of the family from Calif said it was cooler in Linden than where they live (just North of Sacramento).


from the dessert end


where ya start..


and three freezers of home made ice cream, which of course, I was not allowed to partake of.


(We decided next year, to either eat out or have it catered.
Everyone brought a dish and there was just too much food)


----------



## Latestarter

I really wanted to use the jacuzzi tonight. Got my big mug of ice water, my towel, and went out and pulled the cover. There was no steam and there was no warm greeting. Sure enough, the water was cool. Hit the switch and the light comes on but no data printed in the display.   So I go round the house to the breaker box and cycle the breaker. It wasn't tripped and after re-set doesn't trip so seems OK. I've done this before (after power outages) and it has re-set everything and worked... Not this time. 

So I come in the house and get my head band flashlight and head back out. As I start to open the breaker panel cover again, a swarm of yellow jackets comes out the bottom of the box and start roaming around trying to figure out what's disturbing them  so back in the house I go to get several cans of wasp spray. Armed & ready, I'm out there spraying up into the bottom of the box through a missing knock out plug and wasps are falling and flying out and of course where's the only light? On my forehead  Several landed on me, but due to their confusion from being sprayed and it being dark, I was able to get them off me before getting stung. Then I was concerned that spraying all that fluid up into the box might cause a short/fire.  When I moved in here the spa stopped working and the breaker had to be replaced. Mud daubers had built nests behind the panel and killed the breaker. I'm pretty sure the same thing has happened once again. So now I need to call the old owner and ask for a referral to the electrician he used before so I can call him out to do the associated repair. This time I'm sealing that fricken box tight so no more insects of any kind can get in there. The power doesn't come from my regular breaker box but right from the main incoming lines over to this breaker box, so the only way I can secure power is to pull the meter. I don't feel comfy working with live 240 volt at eye level.   Gonna have to wait till after payday the beginning of the month to deal with it.

Well, the breaker is off now and I guess that means a lower electric bill for sure next month.   In other electrical news, the lights out in the big outbldg are no longer working... I have no idea where that power comes from because there's no circuit marked for it in the breaker panel.   I'm guessing rodents have eaten through the wire someplace. I'm seriously considering tearing that bldg down (the leaning tower one) and replacing it with a block retaining wall and 2 bay garage w/workshop. I do still have a home warranty from when I purchased the place... Maybe I'll give them a call and see if either of these issues would be covered... That would be just too sweet.


----------



## Devonviolet

YIKES!!! It doesn't rain, but it pours!!! Only this time you didn't get wet!  I guess that's a good thing, considering you were working with high voltage electrical.  I'm so glad you didn't get stung!!!


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Maybe I'll give them a call and see if either of these issues would be covered... That would be just too sweet.



Sure would!!   Either way, while electrician there he can at least check out the power in the leaning tower....mark some breakers.

Sounds like you aren't using it much since water had cooled  -- been a few days.      Even in hot weather I enjoyed the hot soak on sore muscles when I had one.  Hot shower helps but, not near as much.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have had good luck on home warranties so it never hurts to at least find out.


----------



## Bruce

Ah Joe, a quarter billion is only $250M, one could hardly live on that! 

The power company doesn't really like customers pulling the meters. The electrician has to tell them they did it so the power company can come put a new wire tag on it. At least here.



Latestarter said:


> So when all you folks come for a visit and I serve up lemon pudding pie, don't be concerned!


As long as YOU cut and eat the first piece in our presence and a reasonable amount of time has passed afterward 



CntryBoy777 said:


> have to go to Memphis to get one...and it is getting really rough up there.


And I recall you saying that other than the airport, Memphis is to be avoided whenever possible. 



greybeard said:


> Some of the family from Calif said it was cooler in Linden than where they live (just North of Sacramento).


That would be in the area of @babsbag and @ragdollcatlady no??



Latestarter said:


> Sure enough, the water was cool.


Great! You can cool off in your "swimming pool"


----------



## CntryBoy777

I most certainly would call they are suppose to cover existing electric lines and if it is the hot tub, they may replace it.


----------



## CntryBoy777

@greybeard that looks like quite the spread there....and the idea of meeting and having it catered or at a restaurant is probably a good one saving time, labor, and $$.....not to mention the transport and dishes.


----------



## Baymule

Dark. Headlight on forehead. Wasps.


----------



## greybeard

Yes..wasps and above ground yellow jackets are best dealt with late in the evening, after dark, or very early in the morning when there is still a lot of dew on things (wings) or a lot of moisture in the air.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Dark. Headlight on forehead. Wasps.


You have no heart @Baymule !!



CntryBoy777 said:


> I most certainly would call they are suppose to cover existing electric lines and if it is the hot tub, they may replace it.



I think here they are responsible only to the meter, just like the phone company is responsible only to the NID. Everything else is on the homeowner.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I think here they are responsible only to the meter, just like the phone company is responsible only to the NID. Everything else is on the homeowner.


I think CB777 was talking about calling in reference to the home warranty--not the utility company.

The experience I've had with those warranties is that will cover things as long as the new homeowner exercises expected and reasonable diligence in keeping critters out of things like electric boxes.
If mud daubers re-use old nests, I'm unaware of it. They usually build new ones each year, and if that's where the problem is, might be difficult to expect the policy to trigger based on something that happened since the new property owner has been in possession of the property for a number of months.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, trip to Shreveport was uneventful. They have determined that they don't think I have rheumatoid arthritis and that my issues are advanced gout(y arthritis). They did state a concern that I _may have_ some sort of bone disease that is causing me to lose calcium and bone density... something to do with the parathyroid I guess.  They said that they'd add that as a note for the cat scan scheduled for next month so they can look at that as well.  I told them that I had started taking naproxen sodium (Aleve) when I felt pain coming on to knock it back before it got to the point that I'd need to use oxycodone. So, they're prescribing actual prescription strength naproxen that I can take as needed for pain and swelling. They also said that it can cause stomach issues so they're also prescribing a prilosec type item to control that and my acid reflux. I asked about the 14 day limitation that they have in the TV ad and they said that's there because some folks have ulcers and such but that it's not an issue for me.

Coming back I did swing through Carthage and stop at HEB. Got a supply of choice boneless rib eye steaks. Asked if they had bone in and they didn't... Also picked up a couple of shank hams for the freezer and the pork chops looked awesome so picked up 3 big packages of those and then decided I wanted country style ribs for dinner tonight so got 3 packages of them as well. I kept three out to grill tonight. They're already seasoned up and waiting to be cooked. The butcher said since I was buying so much and since it was the peak of the eclipse he'd give me the whole lot for 3.99/lb  

Just kidding of course... total out the door was a little over $172.00. I'm good with that as it's meat for the next several months. Speaking of the eclipse... Anyone here in the 100% coverage swath? They said we were about 75% occluded here, but it seemed like a cloud passing over the sun... hardly even noticeable. I guess the next one is in 2024 and should pass right over east TX, so that one should be very viewable here. Boy is it hot here today. Supposed to have some wet weather moving into the area tomorrow evening through Wednesday and then the highs will be in the mid 80s for the rest of the week.  That's great for working outside, except if we get more wet, I'm gonna have to postpone mowing once again.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I guess the next one is in 2024 and should pass right over east TX


Curious, that one is supposed to be total up here as well.


----------



## Latestarter

Yes, I guess it starts down here in TX and moves N/NE up through New England then out to sea.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That's good news about the RA....sorry to hear about the bone problem, but some seem more suseptable to that as they age. I'm looking forward to the break here, too....we are presently getting a shower, so no afternoon work here....will have to catch-up over the wknd....gonna be Busy here. The meat sounds like a fair deal. How long does it take to get to Shrevport from your place?


----------



## Bruce

I looked at the path, it JUST makes it over us, most of Vermont will see a partial. 
I don't think I can screw people for tent sites though, not in the April 8th timeframe. Maybe they would pay to snuggle up with the chickens in the coop 

My sister went to Oregon from So Cal for the one today. She sent me a note to let me know she would be here for the next one. Book your room now, they are filling up fast!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'm sure Laddie and Teddy would share their room too....


----------



## Bruce

I thought about that! If they are still alive in 7 years. By then they MIGHT be amenable to having people near them. Alpaca fiber is very warm. 

My sister suggested renting space to RVers  The ground MIGHT still be frozen then. If not, the local towing companies would make out pulling those RVs out of the mud after they sink in a bit. Probably want to use a winch with a really long cable though. Of course by then I MIGHT have a REAL tractor and could charge them to get pulled out. If they don't want to pay, I can sell their RVs. Yep I'm that kinda slimeball  Whaddya think, $300/night?


----------



## OneFineAcre

We were 92% and I guess I thought it would be darker
It was just kind of hazy looking
Kind of an eerie glow
Street lights noticed the change because they came on
But I had the glasses and looked at it at the peak and it was cool
Just a sliver at the top of the sun wasn't covered 
I guess that will tell you how bright the sun is


----------



## Baymule

Here in east Texas I don't know the percentage of view, but at 1:15 the sun looked like a crescent moon, just a sliver. The light was of a very faintish green cast, like just before a hurricane hits. We had one pair of glasses and had a lot of fun with them. We got horse feed and shared the glasses with the cashier lady and the young man who loaded the feed. Both were appreciative. Then we went to Connie's Place, a small town café we love to patronize. Connie, our waitress, the cook and a young man we didn't know all took turns with the glasses, looking at the eclipse. When we stopped for fuel, keys were stuck in the gas pump door, so I went inside to tell them. The attendant came out, he used the glasses to look at the eclipse and called to another young man who came running to use the glasses also. We had more fun sharing those glasses than using them ourselves. $5 well spent.


----------



## Baymule

I wish we had a HEB here. We have Brookshires (their HQ is in Tyler) Walmart and Aldi's. Whoop-de-do.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Baymule said:


> Here in east Texas I don't know the percentage of view, but at 1:15 the sun looked like a crescent moon, just a sliver. The light was of a very faintish green cast, like just before a hurricane hits. We had one pair of glasses and had a lot of fun with them. We got horse feed and shared the glasses with the cashier lady and the young man who loaded the feed. Both were appreciative. Then we went to Connie's Place, a small town café we love to patronize. Connie, our waitress, the cook and a young man we didn't know all took turns with the glasses, looking at the eclipse. When we stopped for fuel, keys were stuck in the gas pump door, so I went inside to tell them. The attendant came out, he used the glasses to look at the eclipse and called to another young man who came running to use the glasses also. We had more fun sharing those glasses than using them ourselves. $5 well spent.


I shared mine a lot too
It was fun


----------



## Baymule

A neighbor asked DH to come jump his truck off. He put Trip on the porch so he could leave the gate open. I felt sorry for Trip on the still hot porch, so I let him in the cool house. LS you aren't the only one with a "house" LGD.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Yes, I guess it starts down here in TX and moves N/NE up through New England then out to sea.


https://www.accuweather.com/en/weat...rt-planning-for-the-next-one-in-2024/70002507


----------



## Latestarter

Now that's one very comfy looking dog! You'll know he's "all in" when he rolls completely onto his back, rear legs splayed out to either side, front paws in the puppy begging pose and head stretched out as far back as he can get it... Oh... and snoring! Need I mention snoring?  When I'm away from the house for any period of time, Mel is outdoors. I didn't get back till after 4pm and he was soooo happy to get in the house! He's got some weird phobia about drinking water from his water bowl outside.   I don't understand, but he won't drink outside so when he comes in, the first place he heads for is his inside water bowl. He can put down a 1/2 gallon of water in a few short minutes. That's a phobia he's gonna have to get over pretty soon.

Sounds like you had a splendid day sharing those glasses all around. The HEB I go to is at the junction of 79 and the NW loop around Carthage. Near as I can tell, that's about 75 miles from you and you could do about 1/2 of it on I-20... Not a terribly long drive if you were going to stock up with a few months worth of groceries. Their meats are heads and shoulders above anything from Brookshires or their sister store super fresh or whatever it's name is. I've never been to an Aldi's...

So I just looked for a detailed map and where I live I'll be on the outer edge of 100% coverage. I can drive a short way to Sulpher Springs and be right in the center of the path.  https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/map/2024-april-8#


----------



## babsbag

@greybeard I live 2 hours N. of Sacramento and @ragdollcatlady is about 4 or 5 hours south of Sacramento. But we both live in one of CA main valleys, hers is the Central and I am in the No. Sacramento and they are both hot. There is more agriculture where she lives and it is more humid than where I am. This summer has been brutal up here, most every day over 100° and when it is below 105° it is "pleasant" .


----------



## babsbag

Mark 63 days from 8/19...Francis and Mia should have an announcement to make right around then.


----------



## Latestarter

OOoooooooo so right around Oct 21st!  Figure 16 weeks later would be around Feb 10th.


----------



## Bruce

Let's see, Feb 10th plus at least 10 weeks, maybe 12. OK, no weather problems travelling over the Sierras to get Mel's future girlfriend.

Thanks for the link Joe. We will be right in the middle of the 100% coverage path. Full begins at 3:26 and lasts 3M 29S. Total duration 2H 22M 48S. Just as with the one yesterday, I don't think I'll sit for the entire show start to finish 

Of course unless I can figure out why my camera did what it did, the pictures won't be any better.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> so I let him in the cool house.


Boy he sure looks uncomfortable! Laying there all splayed out from heat stroke probably


----------



## Latestarter

I feel I need to report for those who might be concerned or interested... The pudding that was best used by 2012 is quite fine


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Let's see, Feb 10th plus at least 10 weeks, maybe 12. OK, no weather problems travelling over the Sierras to get Mel's future girlfriend.
> 
> Thanks for the link Joe. We will be right in the middle of the 100% coverage path. Full begins at 3:26 and lasts 3M 29S. Total duration 2H 22M 48S. Just as with the one yesterday, I don't think I'll sit for the entire show start to finish
> 
> Of course unless I can figure out why my camera did what it did, the pictures won't be any better.



Maybe...maybe not. Be careful what ya wish for.  Not that being outside the path of totality will save ya...
Superimposing  yesterday's path of totality on the same map as 2024's path, I note a singularity. "Someone" or "something" has placed the NE Arkansas region in a 'crosshairs'.






Using my super duper top secret home made multi filtered lens telescope, I have discovered who/what that someone is......


----------



## animalmom

Oh @greybeard!  The secret is now out.  Deep State indeed.


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> Let's see, Feb 10th plus at least 10 weeks, maybe 12. OK, no weather problems travelling over the Sierras to get Mel's future girlfriend.



The pups are due 10/21 so Feb 10 is  the "go date" for them to leave. I have had many leave as early as 10 weeks but I try and hang on to them at least until 12.


----------



## AClark

Late, I'm a pudding/jello hoarder too. I have noticed that it is fine well past it's expiration date as long as the package is still sealed up. We frequently eat jello/pudding that would have been thrown out long ago. 

Lemon is a favorite of mine, it's usually orange that just sits at my house. Lime jello is my favorite out of all of them!


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> The pups are due 10/21 so Feb 10 is  the "go date" for them to leave. I have had many leave as early as 10 weeks but I try and hang on to them at least until 12.


Oh, well then there could be travel considerations. I'm sure @Latestarter will leave his pup with you as long as you deem necessary 



greybeard said:


> Using my super duper top secret home made multi filtered lens telescope, I have discovered who/what that someone is......


  Sure glad I'm far from NE Arkansas!


----------



## babsbag

Fortunately I-80 is an all weather road unless you hit it dead on in the middle of a storm all should be well.


----------



## Baymule

OK, I guess it's settled. We'll all meet up at @Devonviolet's house in 2024 for the eclipse!


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> OK, I guess it's settled. We'll all meet up at @Devonviolet's house in 2024 for the eclipse!


   You beat me to the punch!  I was thinking the same thing!  We are closest to the actual path, of the total eclipse.  So it makes sense, that we all meet here.

It's supposed to go from 1:43 to 1:47 PM. We can have a leisurely pot luck lunch and then it will be time for the eclipse.    Everyone make sure you buy your eclipse viewing glass now, while they are on clearance, from this year's eclipse.


----------



## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> Maybe...maybe not. Be careful what ya wish for.  Not that being outside the path of totality will save ya...
> Superimposing  yesterday's path of totality on the same map as 2024's path, I note a singularity. "Someone" or "something" has placed the NE Arkansas region in a 'crosshairs'.
> 
> View attachment 37892
> 
> Using my super duper top secret home made multi filtered lens telescope, I have discovered who/what that someone is......
> View attachment 37893


. 
Geez Greybeard!  I guess that proves Big Brother is watching us!!!


----------



## Bruce

Thanks for the invite to @Devonviolet's place @Baymule but I think I'll stay here and see it. Though it would be fun to see it with BYH friends. But I can't really tell my sister what and when to feed the animals while I'm in TX


----------



## Latestarter

I spent all afternoon up till goat chores mowing. I'm tired and sore. That grass was over knee high. I got maybe a quarter of the back pasture done. I planned on pounding more T-posts after goats, but while mowing there are several areas along the property line that have saplings, yau pon (SP) and thorns, tree limbs, etc hanging over and I'm just tired of dealing with them (scratching my arms and face and ripping my hat off) so got the loppers and started clearing the fence line instead. I expect I'll be back on that again tomorrow. Maybe I'll start on that early while the pasture is too wet to mow. Then start mowing again after lunch time.



Bruce said:


> But I can't really tell my sister what and when to feed the animals while I'm in TX



Don't you have a DD1 & DD2?? I mean You HAVE mentioned them helping you out doing farm chores and the like. Couldn't they handle the critters for a couple of days while you travel? Just a thought and of course we are discussing something that's 7 years from now...


----------



## Bruce

Right, PRESUMABLY they will be living on their own (at least DD2) when they are 29 and 31 Y/O! DD1 is taking a Spanish class at the community college starting next month. Seeing if she is up to doing college work on the teacher's schedule. 

They make "pull behind" flail mowers, gas powered. Given all you have to mow it might be worth the money. Don't know what they cost but they can deal with all that tall grass where the riding mower is a poor choice. I know, I have the same thing, but less to mow so less likely to be "affordable". Of course if you get a real tractor ...


----------



## Mini Horses

I have 2 60" pull behind.  Yep has own engine & blades like a riding mower.  But, it is adjustable height wise, so you can do a little taller for grasses.   I find it is helpful if I have kept the fields in reasonable condition as I can offset the mower and run the rider at the same time....that gives about 7' swath.

But, when we have so much rain on a regular basis, you can't always keep up with it.   I mowed most of my yard yesterday and now I need to sweep it to keep the heavy grass from killing out what's below it.   Sometimes only the bushhog works efficiently.  Especially with briars, saplings, etc.

Right now the backhoe is back on the tractor.  Had a little 31 y/o mare pass away and burial done.   She was my first show mare, a national champion halter win, whom I have had the pleasure of loving for over 25 years.  Sad day but, a long life that was well lived.  RIP Flashy!  One of my minis -- smaller than Mel, probably.


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## CntryBoy777

Sorry to hear about Flashy....and certainly celebrate with ya on the long and productive life......


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## frustratedearthmother

Mini Horses said:


> RIP Flashy!


  I know she had a great life with you!


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## Latestarter

So sorry that Flashy has passed on, but it had to happen at some point. Hope her passing was fast and painless. So are you now able to couple/uncouple the bush hog by yourself? I know after GB gave those pointers you said you had the bush hog back on the tractor.

I'm afraid that there are no more major purchases (planned) in my immediate future. The credit card balance (which I didn't want) is moving in the wrong direction... as in from zero up to the 4-5K range. I need to get that back down pronto. I do not want to be back to where I was at before I moved. The move here was supposed to help me stay out of debt, not climb back into it. 

As for the mowing, I mowed around the house what, 3 maybe 4 days ago? It already needs it again   Well, with plenty of moisture comes plenty of plant growth... who knew?  Like Mini said, I have clumps of cut grass that is bleaching out the lawn under it. Typically I'll run over those clumps after they've dried a bit to further shred them and blow them out and about. But the deep areas everywhere are still wet.   It doesn't help that I'm trying to directional mow so the clippings (with seed heads) are directed to where there is little or no grass, or weeds. Specifically around the copses of trees where I've cleared around them and it's pretty much bare dirt.


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## greybeard

Bahia grass?
If so, a flail mower will need a bucket full of spare belts.

In tall thick grass, you'll have better luck cutting 1/2 a swath at the height setting you want instead of cutting full swath at a high deck setting and going back over it at a lower setting. Going back over it means your blades are picking up grass clippings already cut during the first cut.
Bahia can put out seed heads in 4 days if the moisture is there and those seedhead stalks are tough.


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## CntryBoy777

I have often thought of those pull-behind yard sweepers for the yard tractor....if they worked fairly well I wouldn't mind getting one to aid in the removal of the wads of grass, but haven't seen many with them and there is much discussion about them either....so, I take that it isn't worth the $$ spent. I do have to get the dump-wagon tho....eventually.


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## greybeard

I've used one CB. They work pretty good, but you gotta dump the hopper way  too frequently for them to be beneficial to me. I've always just let the 'hay' lay there and decompose. Feed the soil!
My sis down the road has a vacuum thing she pulls behind her 60" Husqvarna and for years has picked every bit of the clippings up with it as she mows, dumps it out behind her garden to decompose/compost. Great for the garden, but she's robbing nutrients from her lawn and as a result, her lawn has more weeds in it than anything else.


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## Latestarter

Yeah, I don't want to sweep the clippings up... I leave them in place, like GB says... feed the soil. They also help hold back water run off and erosion when we have those really hard rains. In addition, I want the grass seed to stay there and hopefully sprout/re-seed. I have basically every kind of grass that grows here in TX   There's bahia (long tall thick seed stem), bermuda (different kinds), some other really thin blade stuff that doesn't cut real well (and I haven't seen seed?), some really thick low stuff that is always wet (more like a weed grass. very thick short blades), crab grass, some grass that throws a long thin stalk and then a "V" shaped seed head at the top, and only the good Lord knows what all else. I have what looks like large patches of morning glory type vines that are choking out everything they grow over, and then dew berry (I believe) vines that are in spreading patches. They look like crawling raspberry or blackberry vines and do produce berries in the spring. I need to find something to kill all those vines & weeds so I can re-establish grass. I'll try before I mow it down, to take and post some pictures so maybe some of the pasture experts here can comment/discuss/recommend a course of action.


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## CntryBoy777

Those "V" stalks are probably bahia....dalis grass has the curb feeler seed heads on it.....the stuff that always seems wet is probably chickweed....it stores water in the stalk of the plant, but is a low-grower....the thin blade tough stuff sounds like a sedge of some sort....we have several different kinds here of that awful stuff.


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## Mini Horses

I let my grass decompose where it hits, unless it is extreme on the lawn.  Not that I'm a lawn perfectionist -- FAR from it -- but, when it's been days, it's high & thick, then I like to remove the 2" of matting!     Pastures, some is eaten by animals, chickens scratch thru, etc.

Bags on rear of mower great if grass isn't tall, real wet.  It is a PITA to stop & dump.   Great when I was feeding hogs. The pull sweeper is nice if all has dried -- good job, holds more.  Apparently I have been giving enough back to the soil as I have unreal amounts to mow!!  Raining again now!! 

If you let those goats onto the field you will probably find that many of the vines & weeds you see will disappear.  They eat those things before grass.   So fence & open the gate!    I have a lot of "native" grass, plus types from hay I have fed.  Horses & goats all love the variety.  In summer I could feed 6 cows along with my 20 minis & 12 goats....but, winter comes & the hay bill. So, no cows.  May add 6-8 meat does & buck though.


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## AClark

Latestarter said:


> I spent all afternoon up till goat chores mowing. I'm tired and sore. That grass was over knee high. I got maybe a quarter of the back pasture done. I planned on pounding more T-posts after goats, but while mowing there are several areas along the property line that have saplings, yau pon (SP) and thorns, tree limbs, etc hanging over and I'm just tired of dealing with them (scratching my arms and face and ripping my hat off) so got the loppers and started clearing the fence line instead. I expect I'll be back on that again tomorrow. Maybe I'll start on that early while the pasture is too wet to mow. Then start mowing again after lunch time.
> .



Late, you don't just duck the low limbs? As long as the mower will fit, I know I will. Kind of like riding a horse, they go under the tree and hope you duck before you clothesline yourself. I always mean to go out and lop down the really low branches, but you know what they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I just never remember to do it until I'm out mowing.

I mowed Sunday, blew a belt and had to finish up the backyard on Monday. Now that I look at it, I could totally go over it again and not scalp it. Ours was almost waist high from not being mowed for 3 weeks while repairing the mower from Hell. It ended up being the coil. 
I'm pretty confident I could have gotten my neighbor to bale my lawn. Me and the kids got a pitchfork out and piled it and it's probably at least a bale just from the back yard. The front yard is so shaded it barely gets thick, but the backyard has the thickest grass I've ever seen in my life.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> some grass that throws a long thin stalk and then a "V" shaped seed head at the top


Unless it is Bahia like CtryBoy said, I've got some of that myself I think. Grows profusely, even in cool weather, seedhead stalk and seedheads are real thin and from a distance, can make a field look almost wheat like and my cows don't much like it.  I forget what it's called but it is native to E Texas..or at least has been here long enough that it is accepted as such.

Bahia is easy to identify in a lawn. The seedheads shoot up each week before the leaf does and the immature seedheads are black.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I need to get that back down pronto.


Time for more tuna noodle casserole and fewer trips to the restaurants @Latestarter.


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## Baymule

Good news for you Latestarter! A tropical storm, Harvey, is coming in over the weekend and we will get more rain! It looks like we'll be on the dirty side, so we will get LOTS of rain and it will make your grass grow. You really need to get it fenced so the goats can mow it for you. Or a wether lamb or two. Make sure you are stocked in for feed and whatever you need so you don't have to get out in the weather.


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## CntryBoy777

Light source in the house other than electric power......fill some pots and buckets with fresh water....for cooking and drinking.....and there are however many gals of water in the hot water heater too.....may have to dip out of the hot tub to water the goats with too.....I know, I know....but if ya do lose power it is much better to be a bit ahead, than behind the situation. I want to get a collection system going, but I haven't gotten beyond getting the barrels....$$.....and time....future project.....


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## Baymule

When we lived in Livingston, I always placed 4 new plastic trash cans on the porch, full of water and taped down the lids. And placed buckets in the bathrooms for flushing. Pots of water and oil lamps, matches, brownies, wine, bread and snack foods.


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## CntryBoy777

That's why it is good to have a few canned chickens....in a jar, cause ya don't have to refridgerate...can eat at room temp.....and beats vienna sausage and crackers......


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## Baymule

I always cooked a big roast before a hurricane struck. That way we could make sandwiches.


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## Latestarter

@AClark I DO duck under the branches and thorns as best I can, but it is unbelievably thick and some of those branches just do NOT want to bend. Trying to fend them off while staying in the seat of the mower and trying to steer and remain close but not tangled in the barbed wire fence and maintaining a steady speed when you're being pushed out of the seat backwards... Most of the stuff I'm grumbling about at the moment is growing on the other side of fences and hanging over the fences into the pasture I'm trying to mow. Now, while some of it is on my property behind the back fence (I have ~10 acres of woods behind the back pasture and across the storm river), most of the worst stuff is on the neighbor's property hanging over onto mine. This place was not well maintained prior to my purchase of it. It's been an ongoing process to try and get it to where it could/should be, and there's a lot more to go.

@Mini Horses I don't have near enough goats to eradicate the areas I've mentioned, and the cost to fence everything for goats/sheep would be thousands of dollars that I just don't have. I am working to make goat/sheep proof pastures as fast as I can, but it's gonna take time to get the whole place done. The front pasture is already virtually good to go with barbed wire for cattle and I intend to put a couple of steers up there. The back pasture will be broken down into 4-5 rotation pastures and I'm almost done with the T-posts for the initial one. Once that's enclosed, I can let the goats run free in that to start.

So right after my previous post, I headed out with the mower to continue on the back pasture. As I was making my first pass around, the sky darkened noticeably... Then I saw flashes out of the corner of my eye that I presumed were lightening. As I was completing my 2nd circuit, a chain bolt hit less than 1/4 mile away and I wasted no time getting the mower back in the shed and hustled my fat butt into the house. Shortly thereafter we had a nice long downpour with associated light show and thunder. The radar showed a stand alone T-storm that built up and stayed right over Titus county till it died back out. Thankfully it ended in plenty of time so I could do evening goat chores without issue. Haven't checked the rain gauge but expect an inch or less.

Honestly, I've lived almost my entire life near a coast line until I moved to Colorado. From New England, down to VA Beach and down to Florida. I've dealt with multiple hurricanes. Although this one is raising all kinds of concern, and I understand, the last one to hit TX was what, 9 years ago? This one is barely a tropical storm and if it even makes it back to hurricane status, it shouldn't be more than a cat 1. From everything that I'm seeing and from what I anticipate, most of the effects will be felt from Corpus Christi, up to San Antonio and over to Austin and Houston, then moving east into LA. I really don't expect the northern edge of it to go much north of I-20. I'm really not expecting large or prolonged power outages here. As the residue moves north and East, Country Boy might see worse weather than what I expect here from it. We'll see. Regardless, I can go quite a few days with no power but would lose a lot of frozen food... I have actually thought about/considered buying a generator...  At least that way the fridge and freezer could remain powered... and maybe a fan  I have the grill for cooking.


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## frustratedearthmother

With all the rain that's forecast, I'm not even gonna worry about water for the animals.  My silly critters would rather drink out of a puddle than walk to a water trough, lol. I have a camp stove, charcoal, a French press for coffee and a generator that will pull a window unit in my bedroom.  I will sleep cool!

I'm guessing since I'm south of Houston that we'll get about as much rain as they can throw at us. 

Get that generator LS - it's one purchase that you will NEVER regret!


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## Latestarter

Just the other day I was talking about trying to NOT spend money... buying a generator is gonna cost me another 5 bills...


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## OneFineAcre

If you only lose power for a couple of days and you keep the freezer closed you won't lose anything


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## CntryBoy777

Ya don't need one to run the hot tub....just necessities....


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## greybeard

I know many on this board are in to the sustainability/self reliance thing and there are various inexpensive ways to have an emergency water supply for times when the electricity is going to be off for more than a few hours.
I could put one together for less than $250 I'm pretty sure.
If you are on city water, there may be some hoops to jump thru, but on city water, there is usually a large volume of water in the elevated tanks anyway and gravity supplies the pressure to feed your home. In the town I lived in during hurricane Ike, we had no electricity but had running water for about a week to 10 days. 

You will need a tank, and 330 gal food grade totes are available almost everywhere for about $50. 

They generally come with a screw on 6" cap, and a 2" ball valve on the bottom, with female NPT threads on the end.
You will need to place this tank as close to our home as possible. 

You will need to adapt (swage) down the 2" threads to 3/4" or 1/2" and end up with an adapter on the end that changes from NPT (which is a tapered thread) to a male slip on fitting. (they sell that NPT to hose fitting at tractor supply, lowes and Home Depot for about $2. )
On the top cap of the tank, you will need to drill a hole to accept common 3/4" pvc pipe and make up an inverted L or 'U' shaped pipe in order to allow air in without letting rain water in. A piece of window screen should be wired over the end of this to keep bugs and mud daubers out. This is just a vent to keep the tank from collapsing as water level drops--if not vented, a vacuum will form and pull the sides of the tank in.




 
You of course need to fill the tank ahead of time, and just keep it full with the cap on until you need it when the power goes off.
From the slip on fitting on the tank, attach a short piece of 1/2 hose, that won't collapse under suction. 
To the other end of that hose, you will need a 12 V DC powered pump, somewhere around 2-3 gal per minute flow at 40 psi. That's what the 2nd slip on fitting is for.
The pumps are available at TSC for about $130. Any automobile battery will run one, but you will probably want one that has at least 500 reserve cranking amps. $60.
On the outlet side of the pump, You will need a 1/2" NPT to 1/2", 5/8", or 3/4" hose male adapter. (It's just an adapter to connect a garden hose to) These are "on-demand" pumps. They only kick on when presure drops in the outlet line, and there is an adjustment to set pressure at whatever you want.
Hook our garden hose to it, take it to any outside faucet, and on the end of the hose, you will need a double female hose adapter. That allows you to connect your male hose end to the male faucet thread. 
Now, close off whatever shutoff valve you have between your house and the city water or between house & your water well, connect your battery, open the 2" valve on the tank and the faucet at the end of the garden hose, turn on the switch that comes with the pump and you have potable running water thru out your entire house. 330 gal, assuming you are careful with water usage should  easily last several days.
(You won't have 'normal' pressure at your sinks, but you will have flow, enough to wash up with, fill your coffee pot, and enough to fill the toilet tank)
Sound like a lot of trouble? Do without water for a week or more and you won't think so, and..you'll be the envy of your neighbors..


 

Emergency is over? Turn the pump off, take the garden hose off the pump, drain the water out and store it out of the way..or just leave it hooked up for the next time.


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## OneFineAcre

I got an email this morning at work, we have 26 offices in that area of Texas that are in the storms path so I looked at it.
LS you need to make some preparations.  Looks like a lot of rain.  12-15 inches and some places even more.
I hope your goats can stay dry.


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## greybeard

Looks like very early Sat morning for me to begin to get whatever wind we are going to get. Around 2am-4am.

Rain is a different story.
Moving cattle today to the highest ground, tho I don't expect any flooding until Monday at the earliest since flooding here comes from upstream runoff and it takes a couple of days to get here.


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## Bruce




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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> I always cooked a big roast before a hurricane struck. That way we could make sandwiches.


Good plan. Maybe you should have a hurricane watch every few weeks


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## greybeard

Wife just came back from the store, and said the buying spree is in full effect. Folks all buying carts full of bottled water, canned goods and chips/bread etc. I have seen stores put perishables (meat and dairy) on sale at bargain basement prices right before a storm but probably not this time.


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## frustratedearthmother

The stores in Alvin were out of water and bread yesterday.  Good thing I only needed wine, lol!


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## CntryBoy777

Sure do hope that you all down there pull thru this with minimal effects....a last minute jog, one way or the other can make a big difference....course having past experience sure does help in getting prepared for the possibilities. Hope ya picked up an extra bottle/box or 2 @frustratedearthmother ...it might come in handy.


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## AClark

Late, I'm giving you a hard time. I never remember to cut the branches down and always regret it while I"m mowing. 

I'm hoping all y'all in that storms path stay safe.


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## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> Hope ya picked up an extra bottle/box or 2 @frustratedearthmother ...it might come in handy.


10% off if you buy at least 6 bottles!  I am a smart shopper, lol!

If it moves east we'll take a harder hit for sure...  Fingers crossed that it does not!


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## Southern by choice

You probably want to get some cattle panels set up in your garage.  
If your hoop house floods now I can only imagine what it will be like with hurricane weather coming in and dumping so much rain- this will be very bad for the goats. Pneumonia waiting to happen.
Water is an issue- fill what you can.

Maybe since it is getting cooler you can start building them a real shelter.  Hoop houses are more for shade and temp places not for permanent housing.


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## Latestarter

It doesn't flood... it just gets damp and squishy inside. I want a barn (& a lot of other things), but my desires outstrip my wallet   I'm doing what I can, as I can.   I hope to start on a permanent structure as soon as I finish the fencing.

Just watched a weather channel update and they're now forecasting a cat 3 at landfall. That's what you said was the magic number FEM... PM me if you want to chat. As for me here, I'm in pretty much extreme NE TX. 30-50 miles from the AR/LA/TX corner border at Texarkana. Even with the after landfall plots, I see some rain and minimal wind here. Worst prospects forecast right now are 40% chance of rain Sunday and decreasing chances after that. I am nowhere near the coast... under zero warnings, watches or advisories and don't expect any. I've already had an episode with almost 6" of rain in a 24 hour period here and came through with no issues aside from some driveway erosion.

I will gas up the truck, and fill my gas containers. I have multiple propane tanks filled. I have flashlights, lighters, fire wood, frozen food, canned foods, etc. Still debating on purchasing a generator, not just for now but to have "in case" down the road as well.


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## Bruce

Cat THREE?? Wow, this morning they were saying it would hit land as a Cat 1. That is a HUGE increase in wind.


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## Alaskan

what would you need electric for?  

I would just set up a way to get water by hand (bucket or hand pump).

For food...what are your options?  Can you put fridge stuff in the well, or deep in a shaded creek, or in a root cellar?

For frozen stuff.... I guess for that you need power.... or a giant 2x2 ice cube like in the olden days!  Ha! That's a thought.  Make yourself an old time ice chest..... and have an always frozen giant ice cube ....


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Cat THREE?? Wow, this morning they were saying it would hit land as a Cat 1. That is a HUGE increase in wind.



Yep..that's what they do. It will quickly lose energy when it hits land tho, and be a TS by late Sunday  morning.
Gonna be a heck of a rainmaker tho, with it doing the loop and passing over some areas twice. Dr Jeff Masters said this morning there is even a strong possibility it will return to the gulf and re-intensify next week--headed ?????.




 

This not the small storm some have been saying it is. Well organized and covers a large part of GoM.


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## Latestarter

Indeed it is and growing nicely. In the pics you can see some outer bands already approaching the TX coast.  Just heard the words "cat 4 hurricane" on the TV in the background. I don't think I'd want to be living in the Houston - SW of there area right now... or anywhere up to maybe 150 miles inland from there. This is precisely the reason I decided when I was going to move here, that I would NOT buy south of an E/W line through about Nacogdotches. Now, were I still a free man (no animals) I would be headed to Port O'connor (most likely or close) and looking for a high rise parking garage or something similar to enjoy the show. I'd want to be in the NE quadrant of the landfall if possible.

So this morning when I went out to do goat chores, it was actually very pleasant. Temp was low 70s, lower humidity, nice breeze. Didn't even break a sweat which is NOT the norm. In fact right now it's hazy and only 80 degrees out. Very palatable. But of course that also means that the pasture is not drying out where it isn't cut. tradeoffs... always.

@Alaskan I don't have a well and my deep shaded creek turns into a roaring river when I get heavy rain. No root cellar either, though I do have a storm shelter (underground cement box). It is however not designed for routine or continuous use and is rather a pain to climb in and out of. I wonder how much it would cost to buy a 2' square block of ice here in TX... Hmmmm Don't think it would last very long with the weather here anyway. Without the electricity, how do you figure to keep that big old block of ice, ice? You're from TX, you know this sort of stuff!


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh....it has been pretty nice here, too....waiting on the grass to dry. We did get the bigger stuff cut and piled out of the garden earlier....I went around to the outside and was going to finish up the JG wad that I've been working on, but found a wasp nest amongst the grass and got stung on the forearm....dad-gum guinea wasp....at least that is what I know them by....they are a brownish color with a couple of yellow/gold bands on the abdomen....that is what was stinging me when I hurt my foot....guess ya could say I have a great Dislike for the little b*st*rds. So, guess I'll have to finish it another day. I worked on the mulching mower and got it working properly from Joyce trying to mulch gravel with it....


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## Mike CHS

Having spent a good portion of my life in Pensacola, I don't miss those things.


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## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> It doesn't flood... it just gets damp and squishy inside. I want a barn (& a lot of other things), but my desires outstrip my wallet   I'm doing what I can, as I can.   I hope to start on a permanent structure as soon as I finish the fencing.



Damp and squishy isn't a good situation for goats.  They need a dry place to lay down.
@Southern by choice is right, you are setting up a perfect environment for pneumonia as well as other bad things.
I think your goats need permanent housing more than they need more fencing.


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## Mini Horses

LS --Ya know what?  A few free pallets, a board over if wide spaced slats (legs!) some shavings....they will use them & stay off of the ground!  Redneck?  maybe but, cost effective!!  Check tarp & the tie downs -- winds.   Can't build a barn before the rains.

Frig...you can add ice.  There!  Eat all the ice cream first.

A small generator will run the freezer...can you RENT one?   OR buy some bags of ice and lay them in the freezer now.   Don't open the freezer and it will keep for about 3 days, then start to soften but if still icey, can refreeze ok.

You're a military man --been thru more -- You will be fine.


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## Mike CHS

I may have already mentioned that I use my generator fairly often.  Mine has wheels and whenever I need power out away from the house I put the generator in our small trailer and take it to the project.  We have a decent supply of battery tools but we have more options when electric is available.

We don't need it here often but when I lived in hurricane country we had the generator, weeks supply of gas and a window A/C unit since hurricanes are almost always followed by miserable humidity.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I'd want to be in the NE quadrant of the landfall if possible.


Deathwish??


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## Baymule

Miserable humidity AND the biggest darn swamp skeeters that can suck you and livestock dry!

@Latestarter, I just got a sales flyer from Atwoods in Tyler that has the non climb horse wire, 2"x4", 48" tall x 200' long for $199.99 with another $20 off with rebate. Sale is from August 23 through September 4. The best price we ever found on it when we were fencing was $205 a roll!

Even though we are far inland, we will most likely feel the effects of the storm. I'll be picking up all loose items tomorrow and battening down for the coming storm. If it fizzles out before it gets here, great. If not, I'll be ready.

Good point on the water, @greybeard when we lived in Livingston, we always had water because of the huge water tower in town a few blocks from our house. But after hurricane Ike, the city was worried about it running dry because of no power. I had 4 plastic trash cans on the porch, full of water, buckets in the bathrooms, full of water. BTW, you only need about a half gallon to flush the toilet if you pour it directly into the toilet bowl, not in the tank. I had big post full of water. I used the city water and saved my stored water just in case.


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## CntryBoy777

We have found that even in storms it is cheap prep to grab a couple of bags of ice...we have a cooler and a 5gal thermos jug....makes it easier if ya lose power for a few hrs or more. The water doesn't go to waste, and a few buckets of water to flush the toilet with sure beats finding a tree in the rain....even if ya are "Commando"......


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## OneFineAcre

LS
I don't know exactly where you are in relation to the storm path but if you could get 8 inches of rain and 30 mph winds please make some arrangements for your goats other than the hoop house and some pallets
Do like SBC said and get cattle panels and put them in the garage

I mean how long have you had them now?


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## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> I wonder how much it would cost to buy a 2' square block of ice here in TX... Hmmmm Don't think it would last very long with the weather here anyway. Without the electricity, how do you figure to keep that big old block of ice, ice? You're from TX, you know this sort of stuff!


I walked through the Ice House in Kingsville.   It was double wall brick.  Then they used lots of sawdust and filled it with ice blocks.  They said they could keep the ice about 6 months.  

My dad grew up in Houston.   The ice in their ice box lasted a full week.  Of course it was more fridge than freezer.  With the great insulation we have now a days I am sure it would work well.

I think today...like with a beer cooler, those ice chunks are just so small, lots of surface area, so faster melting.

The key would be to get a giant ice cube.

Up here we make giant ice cubes all winter (frozen water tub).  We toss out the ice cube and refill every morning.  By spring there is a field full of giant ice cubes...they take way longer to melt than the snow, and can even sit on bare ground for a week before they are gone.


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## Alaskan

CntryBoy777 said:


> We have found that even in storms it is cheap prep to grab a couple of bags of ice...we have a cooler and a 5gal thermos jug....makes it easier if ya lose power for a few hrs or more. The water doesn't go to waste, and a few buckets of water to flush the toilet with sure beats finding a tree in the rain....even if ya are "Commando"......


go outside?

you just crack a window on a non wind side and aim.


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## goatgurl

not because i'm the worrying kind or anything but we all know that I am, joe I hope that if you don't want to take the goats into the garage then at least put them in the 3 sided building that you have out back, put some pallets on the floor for them to sleep on to keep them off the wet floor, a tub of water for them to drink, some hay to eat and cattle panels across the front of it to keep them in and critters out.  having them laying in a soggy dripping hoop house is a sure way to get them sick.  I know hope you will try to keep them dry.  i'd hate for you to loose any of them to something that you could prevent.  I know you've been thru worse storms and that you and mel will be fine but a wet goat can easily be a sick goat.  even as far up from youall as I am I still prepare for some wind and rain.


----------



## Southern by choice

Yeah, keep in mind- we all want that "barn" but reality is for many of us  that "barn" may be out of our price-range but that doesn't mean there aren't other options.
Some people we know have some of the best goats in the nation right now... they just built a barn this year! Proir to that they used homebuilt structures that were simple but solid, some calf huts as well. They kidded and milked in their garage.

One farm we know uses and old bus! Yep a bus!

Most of our structures have come from reclaimed wood or from the mill as rough cur boards that weren't good enough to do something with.
6" wide 1" thick and 16feet long for $1 a board.
A client gave us roofing from an old barn that came down.... some things we bought new of course.

We have all been with you on your journey from way back when... so we all want to see you succeed.
Many have tried to gently nudge you in a good direction.
Storm or not you need shelter for your goats. It is not good husbandry to allow them to be on damp ground.
Your goats are going to end up with hoof rot, fungal infections, and respiratory issues.  
* 
There are many experienced goat owners here trying to help you succeed.
*
This is about your animals. 
Right now you have one species- goats.
Learn how to care for them, build proper shelter, learn their management, build a milkstand, equip your goat cabinet, etc before you go any further.
There is a reason experienced goat owners get a bit freaky when severe storms are coming... we all know what this means for our animals.


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## OneFineAcre

goatgurl said:


> not because i'm the worrying kind or anything but we all know that I am, joe I hope that if you don't want to take the goats into the garage then at least put them in the 3 sided building that you have out back, put some pallets on the floor for them to sleep on to keep them off the wet floor, a tub of water for them to drink, some hay to eat and cattle panels across the front of it to keep them in and critters out.  having them laying in a soggy dripping hoop house is a sure way to get them sick.  I know hope you will try to keep them dry.  i'd hate for you to loose any of them to something that you could prevent.  I know you've been thru worse storms and that you and mel will be fine but a wet goat can easily be a sick goat.  even as far up from youall as I am I still prepare for some wind and rain.


A wet goat is a dead goat


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## CntryBoy777

Alaskan said:


> go outside?
> 
> you just crack a window on a non window side and aim.


Well, down here it is warm enough that ya don't have to shoot "Icicles" either.....


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## OneFineAcre

CntryBoy777 said:


> Well, down here it is warm enough that ya don't have to shoot "Icicles" either.....


Most of the time you are funny
Not now


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## Latestarter

I don't have a garage. I have 2 sheds. One used to store yard work equipment, mowers, gas, etc, and the other like an unfinished guest house with no facilities. The three sided run in faces into the weather so is of virtually no help regarding keeping anything inside dry. An animal inside might be out from major direct rain impact, but would still get wet, no different than the hoop shelter. In fact, it is far larger and more open than the hoop shelter. In addition, the drainage and ground slopes into the shelter so water would run off through it. It was used for cows to offer them a wind break. It is also located under very large trees that have already dropped limbs. The hoop shelter is located on a "rise" or "ridge" of ground where any water run off goes down either side and not through it. It is placed so prevailing winds hit it from the side, not through it like a tunnel. I have had the goats since mid April, a little over 4 months. CC was born here in early May so her a little over 3 months.

I am in the far north east corner of TX, 450 +/- miles from expected landfall, & we are not forecast to have any effects from Harvey... none... at all... no 8" of rain, no 30 MPH sustained winds. Right now the highest percent chance of rain forecast here through Tuesday is 30% (chance for showers), on one day and no higher than 20% any other time (slight chance for T-storms). The same as just about every other day all summer long. I understand storms change course, I understand things can change. I've been through a number of hurricanes, all living by the coast. I get it. We've had severe t-storms here multiple times since I got the goats and I don't expect anything worse than what we've already experienced. None of the goats are presently suffering hoof rot, fungal infections, pneumonia, or any other ailments uncommon to goats living in a normal outdoor environment. Goats in the wild don't even have a hoop house.

I am caring for my animals the best I can. I know that goats don't like to be wet. I understand the issues you've all brought to my attention. My land slopes and the water runs off and the bare/groomed ground dries out relatively fast. The goats are not, and will not be in standing water... at all... inside their shelter or anywhere in their pen. A decent portion of their present pen is down to dirt with no vegetation and it is generally dry within hours after rainfall. That is where they normally lay down and rest. Should the circumstances arise that I must bring them inside a building, I will bring them into the big shed. The only time they are in the shelter in any case is when it is actually raining, or during the hottest period of the day when sunny. Other than that, they prefer to stay outside. As soon as the rain stops, they come back out. Once the sun is past its zenith they have shade from the trees over the dirt area where they normally lay down. Their choice, not forced.

I do appreciate the recommendations & y'all's concern for me and my animals and assure you your worries are needless & unfounded. Now, those living down near Houston & on down to Corpus Christi and southwest, or inland to the north and northwest of there, are in totally different circumstances right now, even if they have a proper barn. Those folks and their animals sure are going to need some help and well wishes and maybe even prayers.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Glad to hear you and the "kids" are safe! 

Hope things stay that way!

I hope everyone on the receiving end of these storms is safe as well!


----------



## Mini Horses

LS --I feel you will be fine.  I've had buildings come down in a bad storm hit!     Your goats are well loved & cared for.  Get a barn when you can.  Until then, hunker down...use temp measures if needed, as I suggested from self preservation.

I can assure you that I did not get 15 acres fenced, sheltered and facilities installed in the first year!!  I bought farm land & built a house while living in a tiny camper.

It appears that those living on the coast will be hoping they have trailers to evacuate AND a place to go !!   I have offered a fenced pasture & camper location to evacuees in the past.  In some cases that is live saving -- if not perfect.  

Anyone outside the storm area with a spare pasture might consider this for those who need a place "to go".  Often there are event locations with huge barns, etc.  that open the venue for such weather hazards.


----------



## greybeard

I'm staying, but if this one was on the same path as Ike I probably would not stay. 

Now, come Tuesday, if all the rainfall predictions come true, I may have to leave or wish I had due to rain on the upriver watershed making it's way down here. I don't think floodwater will ever get inside our house, but it can certainly get all over the yard and can easily trap us in here if localized rain comes at a time when the river is way out of it's banks. 
Last week of May 2016, we got 7-9" of rain in 2 hrs and our exit road washed out with 2' of water running over that road. River was already up & within 50 yards of my shop and 75 yards from back steps of the house. That May flood was within 1' of the record level for this river. 

I do have a boat & trolling motor. Might have to drag it up to the back steps early next week.........


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## Mike CHS

I'm probably too late to be of much help but we have a 2 acre secure pen with shelter with nothing using it accept chickens.  Folks are welcome to use that if you don't mind the distance.


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## Bruce

Alaskan said:


> you just crack a window on a non wind side and aim.


Unless you are female. Then you need a "Shewee" or similar 

If all else fails and torrential rains ever dump on @Latestarter, I'm sure Mel would be willing to share Joe's house with the goats.


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## Mini Horses

greybeard -- I know you said you moved cattle to another field.  If the flooding you mention above comes to pass, are they in an area that is safe?  

How's the adorable early arrival??   Should I come get the pair?


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## Latestarter

Can't sleep... sucks. I'm tired. Just lay in bed tossing and turning... I still have the A/C on but it's not coming on very often as the outside temp is about the same as the inside temp. That doesn't bother me in the least! Can hardly wait until the outside temp is lower than inside (some) so I can open the house up. Still a bit too humid to do so, even with the lower temps.

So the Hoop shelter got a new tarp added over the top of the old one this afternoon. Bought the same size/brand heavy duty tarp as before but for some reason the grommets didn't line up the same   So I had to pull the screws and re-position them. Of course the goats had to help in any way they thought might interfere... like dumping out all the zip ties and trying to eat them and the bag they were in. Grabbing the edges of the tarp and trying to eat it while pulling it off the shelter. Chewing/ripping a hole in the bottom of the trash bag I brought out. They also had to peer over my shoulder to see what I was doing while I was down on my knees moving the screws. They even tasted my battery powered DeWalt drill... I also refreshed the hay inside the shelter (the ground was dry), & emptied, cleaned and refilled the water trough/tub as well.

I've developed an ant problem in that they are climbing up the side of the grain barrel and entering through the tiny holes created where they attach the lifting handles. My latest attempt to thwart them is I taped over the handle attachment point thoroughly inside the barrel and up the seam. That seems to have thwarted them for the moment. I wish now that I had bought the solid cast plastic barrels instead of the galvanized as there would not be this issue. I also had "a" rat that had taken up residence under the stored hay. It was leaving telltale poops on top of the feed barrel lids under the tarp. It wasn't getting into the feed, but I didn't want it contaminating the hay with its poop and pee, so had to eliminate it. Put out some bait and haven't seen any signs now for almost a week.

Did some back pasture mowing, I hope to finish it tomorrow. Also want to finish the T-posts. The property boundary edge clearing will have to wait. Oh, BTW, that reminds me


Baymule said:


> I just got a sales flyer from Atwoods in Tyler that has the non climb horse wire, 2"x4", 48" tall x 200' long for $199.99 with another $20 off with rebate. Sale is from August 23 through September 4. The best price we ever found on it when we were fencing was $205 a roll!


 That's a different fence than what I'm using, and even with the sale & discount it's more expensive per foot $180/200' = .90/ft... The fence I'm using is sheep & goat from TSC and is $235/330' = .71/ft  Thanks for having me in mind though, I appreciate it. 

Just checked the radar. Hope you're doing OK there FEM... Appears the 2nd heavy band out from center has been training over the top of you. The eye is completely over land now, a good 10-20 miles inland and has not disintegrated at all that I can see. Looks to be just as strong as it was prior to landfall. Also seems to be continuing NW for the moment. Well... almost 2:30am, guess I better go try and get some sleep.


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## Mini Horses

Issues sleeping here but, stayed off the net.  Went to bed & slept about 4 hrs.   Out to feed earlier this AM and watch a grey FOX take one of my 3 mo old hens!!!!!!    Had found feathers 2 days ago from a white......now I am gonna have to be up early and carrying.  

Heard roos start raising hell as I was nearing barn, turned and headed back when I saw it jump and catch the hen who was in flight.  Apparently it has decided I'm the local buffet.  Gonna stop that.   At dawn tomorrow, i'll be out there.......will pull out gun & ammo tonight.  Most are cooped at night but, a few roost in a shed and are up.   Today @ 7:00 I had just opened all up 7:20 it was "breakfast served"....it was here and waiting to pounce.

Glad you were able to get more cutting done.   

Yep,  goats love to "help".   Donkeys do this, too.  They love you!!


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> ust checked the radar. Hope you're doing OK there FEM... Appears the 2nd heavy band out from center has been training over the top of you. The eye is completely over land now, a good 10-20 miles inland and has not disintegrated at all that I can see. Looks to be just as strong as it was prior to landfall. Also seems to be continuing NW for the moment. Well... almost 2:30am, guess I better go try and get some sleep.


It's downgraded to Cat 1 or Cat 2 this morning (depending what weather prognosticator you listen to)

Hill country looks to be getting some rain.


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## CntryBoy777

Sometimes I accuse the Boys of conapiring against me, cause while one distracts, the other steps in and picks up where the other one left off.........I was smiling the whole time I was reading that post.


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## Baymule

That's right, you're using the goat wire. Either way, they both work and they are both big heavy rolls! Keep pounding T-posts, before you know it, you'll have a pasture done!


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## Alaskan

greybeard said:


> It's downgraded to Cat 1 or Cat 2 this morning (depending what weather prognosticator you listen to)
> 
> Hill country looks to be getting some rain.
> View attachment 37998



Yeah...that is what is so odd....

they keep saying that there is all of this rain...but my sister thinks she has only gotten maybe 3 inches. ..since it started.     It has been raining for forever. ....  but slow and steady. ....no scary downpour.

Of course we keep comparing it to the flood of 1998...   maybe that is why we are underwhelmed.


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## Latestarter

They've forecast 40" +\- of rain for a huge swath of east TX. I believe some small localized areas that got rain bands training over them might pick up huge amounts, while other areas that fall between the bands aren't getting as much as forecast. In the end though, I'm pretty sure just about everyone under the storm is going to get plenty of rain.


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## Alaskan

you saying that they should share?


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## greybeard

Been raining steady again for about an hour now. 
Guidance on where it's going is really sketchy.
_
Harvey has drifted east-northeastward since the last advisory.
While the model guidance is not in great agreement, it appears that
the cyclone will drift southward or southeastward during the next
couple of days due to the distant influence of a trough digging into
the eastern United States.  After that time, a building ridge over
the Gulf of Mexico should cause Harvey to drift generally
northward. The new forecast track is similar to the previous track
and lies near the consensus models.  At this time, the forecast
track keeps the center of Harvey inland, as there is not enough
agreement between the models that the center of Harvey will actually
emerge over water.

Harvey should continue to weaken to a tropical depression during the
next day or so as the cyclone remains inland.  As the center nears
the coast, it is likely that the cyclone will maintain that status
for several days as a large amount of the circulation will be over
the water.  By the end of the forecast period, the system should be
far enough inland so that Harvey will again weaken.  An alternative
scenario is that Harvey could re-intensify if the center emerges
over the Gulf._


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## Latestarter

Looking at the radar and the whole lower SE corner of TX is really getting wet. Looks like the heaviest continuous is east of I-45 and south of Henderson. The triangle area west of & between I-45, I-35 & I-10 is getting whatever is left as it circulates from the previous area mentioned, west. Looks like SW LA is getting quite wet also. Hope all you BYH folks suffering through this are still doing OK.


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## Southern by choice

In touch with Ferguson K- she is ok


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## animalmom

Regarding ants getting into your feed storage cans... I've found that putting a few drops of peppermint oil on a paper towel and then putting the towel on top of the feed inside the can and close the can up.  I've found the ants don't like the peppermint smell and the oil on the paper towel doesn't seem to affect the feed.  Makes the can smell right nice when you open it back up.  You don't have to do this forever, just for a week or two.

If the ants are leaving a trail up the can you can wipe down the trail and the rim of the can with the paper towel before putting the paper towel inside the can.

Peppermint essential oil, not peppermint flavoring found in the baking aisle.  Orange essential oil is suppose to be good, and is used in the same way.


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## Baymule

That's good to know!


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## Mike CHS

Teresa sells those oils and said the peppermint oil was also good to put in crawl spaces to repel spiders.


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## Latestarter

Thanks! I'll try that as they are back in force and I can't seem to keep them out. Found out this morning that they're fire ants   Care to guess how I arrived at that knowledge? Seems they have also infiltrated the hay bales.


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## Baymule

Fire ants love hay bales. And they will get in your house, they seem to have a penchant for hanging out on clothes hangers. Why I don't know. LS you are in Texas now. They are called FAHR AINTS. Practice it till you get it right.


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## Southern by choice

Mike CHS said:


> Teresa sells those oils and said the peppermint oil was also good to put in crawl spaces to repel spiders.


I saw a whole thing on cinnamon oils- it was specifically for ants... can't find the video though of how they had you use it.
Would you mind asking Teresa if she knows about it?
We have never had ants here til this year! They aren't true fire ants but what looks to be a cross of the red and black ants and they bite- not as bad as fireants- they don't leave ya blistered but they hurt and bite over and over.
I have no idea why we now have them... and they are bad!


----------



## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> They've forecast 40" +\- of rain for a huge swath of east TX. I believe some small localized areas that got rain bands training over them might pick up huge amounts, while other areas that fall between the bands aren't getting as much as forecast. In the end though, I'm pretty sure just about everyone under the storm is going to get plenty of rain.


I dunno... this forecasting thing... 

they had said San Antonio was going to get hit hard... and sheesh, that nasty Harvey is dumping in a totally different area and not letting up on those poor central and eastern folks....   The hill country is fine as wine and smooth as velvet! Everyone east and central look like trampled daisies.   

If it would just move on!  I think the big issue is that Harvey is so slow... wont just get a move on and petter out like a good hurricane.


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## Bruce

Someone I know on another forum that lives near Houston posted about 6 PM (Eastern) they had 20" of rain, water channeling trenches (dug deeper 2 days ago) full, yard under water ... and their neighbor's house flooded so they have "houseguests". No internet but still had power.



Alaskan said:


> they had said San Antonio was going to get hit hard


San Antonio?? That is where they sent everyone that lived near Corpus Christi. Doesn't seem like a place to send people if that was the forecast.


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## Alaskan

Originally San Antonio was on yellow allert... everything was shut down in preparation... my sister outside of New Braunfels was told to expect 30" of rain... she got maybe 3....  

As to Houston... I think the issue there is that the city is just HUGE!  That means that there are some super low always floods there spots, as well as some areas that are usually high and dry.

Not sure how much rain my parents have gotten (middle of 
Houston), but where she is it keeps draining nicely.  She said that the worst it got was maybe two inches over the street, but it went away very quickly and is now only on the street edges.


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## Alaskan

Oh... and it is usually just downtown San Antonio that floods...the rest of the city is usually fine.


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## CntryBoy777

Knocking out FAHR Ants is a never ending process, but ya can make headway with leftover liquid, before ya go and get more for the lawn mower.....and mower liquid works better than tractor liquid........this message will self-destruct in 2hrs


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## Goat Whisperer

CntryBoy777 said:


> Knocking out FAHR Ants is a never ending process, but ya can make headway with leftover liquid, before ya go and get more for the lawn mower.....and mower liquid works better than tractor liquid........this message will self-destruct in 2hrs


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## Mike CHS

Southern by choice said:


> I saw a whole thing on cinnamon oils- it was specifically for ants... can't find the video though of how they had you use it.
> Would you mind asking Teresa if she knows about it?
> We have never had ants here til this year! They aren't true fire ants but what looks to be a cross of the red and black ants and they bite- not as bad as fireants- they don't leave ya blistered but they hurt and bite over and over.
> I have no idea why we now have them... and they are bad!



That's one she said she has no experience with but the literature says the oils do not kill them but can repel them.


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## Alaskan

Have you tried making a grease line all around the barrel?


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## ragdollcatlady

DE usually works for ants here. A heavy dose all around to cover all active ants and lightly sprinkled every where they might spread. Safe to eat for everyone, just don't breath it in and dust, gently so as not to get it too fluffed up into the air. It is actually a flour and pretty heavy, so it drops fine if you don't shake too hard. 

The fire ants here love to have hills in the grasses and near the weeds I seem to want to pull! They love to make themselves at home in the "goats head" weeds!


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## ragdollcatlady

P.S. I have found that a flour sifter actually works fantastic for dropping the DE where I want it, and spreads it better than when I try and drop it by hand. I recently sprinkled some over the top of chicken grain I had just dumped into the bin. The last few bags have attracted bugs (or maybe had some in them) but since the chickens like the bugs, I am not concerned. I just don't want them spreading to the goats grain.


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## Latestarter

I know commercial feeds, many have DE in them for just that reason, helps kill bugs. I hadn't really considered it since it's useless when wet and the dew we get here, you'd think it rained all night, every night. I don't really want to use grease or petro chem (mower or tractor) as it's in an area where the animal feed is and I don't think it would be beneficial to their diets and health long term. Perhaps I'll get a small bag of food grade DE and sift some into the feed barrel on top of the feed.

I have the big dirt hills here too... I try to run over them with the lawn tractor and squash them then blow them away with the blade deck. They become really visible and easy to spot right after a rain... It seems when the ground is wet, the ants love to push up new dirt to all time highs.


----------



## Latestarter

So the northern border of Harvey is moving north slowly & is just about up to Shreveport and appears to be approaching @Baymule so perhaps she'll start seeing rain by tomorrow some time. I've got a 30% for tomorrow but a 70-80% chance Wednesday and Thursday. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. I'm basically right below the top of a hill. The run off from above me will cause some erosion in areas but I have no fear of flooding as the stream is a good 25-30 feet below me. Might be interesting to see it at flood stage again and out of its banks. I have pictures of it just below the top of the banks. I know it has been out at least once since I moved in here, but I never saw it. I believe it happened in the middle of the night. That was when I lost all those fence posts I had to recover. 

No danger of that anymore, but I'd really like to actually see where the flood flow is, rather than trying to determine by piles of flood debris; direction and force as well as depth so I can plan my fencing better. I've been thinking I might use cattle panels in those areas vice the woven goat fencing. Maybe I'll get the chance to witness it here right around the corner.


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## Alaskan

But don't stand in the middle of the river to test flow speed....


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> this message will self-destruct in 2hrs


Didn't work!


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## Baymule

LS, you, @Devonviolet and I will be ok. We are all high and dry. You and DV might get some mud, but we'll all be ok.


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## CntryBoy777

Don't forget about some berms, they can be very beneficial in directing or diverting waterflow. They can also provide high ground for refuge of the animals....and, dirt is pretty cheap.


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> and, dirt is pretty cheap.


Not here! I have so much ledge covered with a thin layer of dirt (mostly clay) I can't (if I had the equipment) just move it around. I don't suppose someone wants to "gift" me several thousand yards of clean topsoil??


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## CntryBoy777

Fill dirt here is about $80-90/load....long bodied dump truck....I have plenty of dirt, but don't plan on digging it and hauling with a wheelbarrow, when it is cheap..........our drivers here are not union, so we don't have to pay the premium.


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## Latestarter

No idea what dirt costs here... Haven't checked yet. But I'm gonna need several load to level out the area where I want to put the barn. And a dozer to push it all around and make it level/sloped away for drainage. It won't be top soil though... just fill dirt.


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## Baymule

You don't need a dozer to level dump loads of dirt, just rent a tractor with a box blade and a front end bucket.


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## Latestarter

My neighbor's cousin lives around the corner and does dirt work. He's retired, but the neighbor says if you ask he will do it. He has all the required equipment. It will be cheaper to pay him a couple hundred dollars than to pay many hundreds of dollars to rent a tractor with bucket &/or box blade. Depending on price, I might have him just do the whole job. Found this out while discussing putting in a pond with the neighbor.

So I decided I wanted some real Italian food for dinner tonight. Fired up the microwave and cooked me a Stouffer's lasagna with meat and sauce. Just finished writing an Email complaint to Nestle's about it. Started with one complaint and ended up with two. Tried to do it through their online submission form and it wouldn't let me submit... kept telling me "Please read the terms and conditions"   GGGgggrrrrrr they want you to contact them then they set terms and conditions? WTF?  

The complaint I started out with was "The lasagna noodles were in a large clump in the center of the container, dried out, with no sauce, and so burned to the bottom of the container during microwaving. I used a 1100 watt microwave and followed the directions. When I tried to cut it in the container in preparation for eating it, I had to hammer a butter knife through the noodles with my fist to get them to break apart. I've been buying these frozen meals for years and frankly, the quality has been dropping over time. The product looks absolutely nothing like what is pictured in your TV ads. I have several more in my freezer that were purchased at the same time as this one. I wonder what condition they will be in... To say I'm disappointed would be a mild understatement."

The best by date was Jan2019  Can you imagine?

Though we've had no rain here it has been continuous overcast and very humid and damp. The grass is not drying out and my foot wear gets wet going to/from the goat pen, even in the afternoon. So, no mowing  I did solve the ants in the grain issue... I was at wally world last night and got a big bag of fire ant granules, not for where the goats are but for other nests, and a bottle of bug gone spray or some such... It's supposed to be an indoor/outdoor spray that blocks the ants as they won't cross it. I sprayed the entire circumference of both barrels up to just below the handles. No ants this morning, inside or outside the barrels. And I'm pretty sure it worked out to be substantially cheaper than what peppermint essential oil would have cost, and will probably last longer. just a guess.


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## Alaskan

Awesome on the ants, bummer on your world wanting to mold..


....

And  on the TV dinner.  When Spouse was out of town I tried a frozen lasagna, it was pretty good too.  I think it was Marie Callender. (Sp?)


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## CntryBoy777

We made lasagna last wk, and I made the comment to Joyce that the day I can't make it better than Stouffers I'd quit cooking.....ya need to make ya a big batch and freeze some Joe....that Stouffers is absolutely nasty.
Our weather has been about the same here, but the past couple of days the dew was quite a bit lighter, so I was able to get both fields cut in preparation for the coming rain. Yesterday, when shutting up the ducks and doing goat check, I got soaked with sweat....much more than when I was mowing in the filtered sunshine. The plan with the neighbors cousin sounds like it may be the way to go....worth talking to him about it anyway and find out the charge and how long it will take him to do it.....


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## Baymule

LS you are going to have to learn how to make your own lasagna. It's not hard. And it is sooooo much better than frozen blech.


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## Latestarter

I know how to make lasagna, and make a damned good one, but it's a LOT of work (to make it right) and take time. Not that I don't have time, I'd just prefer to spend it doing something else.

I think from now on I'm going to try to find Michael Angelo's: http://www.michaelangelos.com/clubProduct.php?productID=86
I've had it before and it's really substantially better. The only problem is, I consider one package one serving, they consider it four and 1/2! (1350 calories!)


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## Baymule

You're going to have to get in the mood to cook and cook up a batch for the freezer. Portion it out and you can have your own frozen dinners. I can't see the point of wasting your money on crap food when you can make so much better yourself. The next boring rainy day, spend it in the kitchen doing something nice for yourself. 

I get it that you have worked outside all day, drag in tired and hungry. haha, how would like to have to cook for someone else besides yourself? I have pyrex dishes with plastic snap on lids that I make and freeze cassaroles in. I wrap them good in saran wrap and freeze. Take off the saran wrap, put in a cold oven and turn it on. Go take shower, relax in recliner and supper is ready!


----------



## Alaskan

Awesome on the ants, bummer on your world wanting to mold..


....

And  on the TV dinner.  When Spouse was out of town I tried a frozen lasagna, it was pretty good too.  I think it was Marie Callender. (Sp?)


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> The only problem is, I consider one package one serving, they consider it four and 1/2!


We know those "Servings per container" are set to both make it look "healthier" and make the numbers come out all nice. But yeah, ONE cup of lasagna is "dinner"? Maybe if you also have a salad and other veggies on the side. There goes the "fast and easy dinner". And to have it be terrible to boot? Unthinkable.



Baymule said:


> You don't need a dozer to level dump loads of dirt, just rent a tractor with a box blade and a front end bucket.


And maybe a landscape rake for general spreading before using the box blade.



Latestarter said:


> The product looks absolutely nothing like what is pictured in your TV ads.


Now THERE is a big surprise!  You would think there would be some truth in advertising laws with respect to that. Buyer beware. I think that sort of thing is why bacon packages have to have a window (even if you have to open cardboard flaps) on the back. Looks like meat on the front, looks like 98% fat in the back. No sale. I check a LOT of packages and will not buy at all if they don't have a reasonable amount of lean on BOTH sides.

Hopefully you can work out a "make and freeze" plan for your "fast dinner" favorites. Besides tasting a lot better, it won't have near the sodium content.


----------



## Latestarter

Speaking of sodium content, you're right... mine will have substantially more, either before freezing or before eating. I'm a salt addict... 

Dot got me this morning. I guess she figured it was time to demonstrate why I shouldn't get complacent while milking, & should always be on my guard and paying attention. I had already milked out one side and was about 1/2 way through the second side and she decided to stomp down hard right in the milk pail.  Man was I pissed!
So I just milked her out the rest of the way onto the ground and dumped the pail on the compost heap. At least a quart of milk wasted. 

Lousy night last night... cut out a wart on my shin and double bandaged it. Thought it would be OK, but bled through the bandaids and all over my sheets.   Then woke up ~ 4am and couldn't get back to sleep. Went into the bathroom and obviously disturbed something living in the walls because it went scratching and moving away inside the wall. It wasn't mice, too loud and much larger. So now I have to figure out what's in the wall and how it got there. Then how I can get rid of it and make sure no others follow it's lead. 

72 degrees outside now, and the yard doesn't seem "as damp" as it has been of late. I plan to get back on the mower after lunch and try and get some pasture cut. Checked the radar and very little storm movement. Really feel for those folks still getting dumped on in and around Houston. Looks like it's intensified over GB's area again as well.


----------



## Alaskan

cutting out your own flesh huh?

hope your day improves.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That critter could be a rat or chipmunk....we have both here, but the cats keep them at bay pretty good. Goats surely like to keep ya on your toes, and demand undivided attention....sorry ya lost the milk, it has to be rather irritating. The trac of the storm keeps changing so much, but the latest being reported here shows it coming right over us...tho we are projected to get 3-6" depending on which channel is watched....but, the whole area is under a flash flood watch til Fri evening....the worst day is suppose to be Thurs, so far....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

OH boy... I don't wish Harvey on anybody!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'll gladly take it FEM, if it means it gives ya relief...I think dealing with it for 5days is More than your share. I'm still concerned about GB and his wife....it is weighing Heavy on my mind and heart....so much could've happened with just those 2 in the boat....I know they have spunk, but at 80+ it has to be difficult.


----------



## babsbag

Is he that old? I was guessing 70


----------



## OneFineAcre

CntryBoy777 said:


> I'll gladly take it FEM, if it means it gives ya relief...I think dealing with it for 5days is More than your share. I'm still concerned about GB and his wife....it is weighing Heavy on my mind and heart....so much could've happened with just those 2 in the boat....I know they have spunk, but at 80+ it has to be difficult.


Is GB that old
I thought he was early 70s


----------



## CntryBoy777

@OneFineAcre I'm not positive, but I believe that is what he said one time.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> I'll gladly take it FEM, if it means it gives ya relief...I think dealing with it for 5days is More than your share.


Thanks so much!  I think we've come through the worst of it.  If we can survive the run-off we'll be in the clear!


----------



## Mini Horses

CntryBoy777 said:


> I'm still concerned about GB and his wife....it is weighing Heavy on my mind and heart....so much could've happened with just those 2 in the boat....I know they have spunk, but at 80+ it has to be difficult



ME too....and his house and herd.   So sad, that water was not good there.   Wish we could just know they were safe somewhere.


----------



## Latestarter

Pretty sure GB is in his early 70s. Wish he'd pop on with an update of status. Hope they're well and find good things when they're able to get home.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> cut out a wart on my shin and double bandaged it.


Oh my! 
I have a tip for you: Castor oil. Dab a little on the wart a couple of times a day and it will slowly go to wart heaven. No pain, no blood, no scar. Worked on a 1/4" high wart on my thumb that Compound W took down to skin level (with pain, blood, damage to surrounding skin where the W got on it). Soon as I stopped C-W, it rose right back up to full height. A month after starting the CO it was totally gone, no evidence it ever existed other than the damage caused by the C-W.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks Bruce, I had no idea... Gotta get me some castor oil.

So I got the major portion (worst part/longest unmowed) of the back pasture done today. I hope to finish it up tomorrow and go back over what I mowed a week ago as it already needs it again. Need to mow inside the yard fence as well, front and rear. Was a pretty nice day here today. Got a little warm late afternoon but there was a nice breeze all day. The deep grass was still wet, even at the end of the day. Tomorrow is supposed to be right about 80-81 degrees, so again, not too bad. With a breeze it won't be bad at all.

So I have this like 13 pound bag of fire ant poison pellets that I put between my feet on the mower deck while I was mowing. Every time I found a nest, I'd sprinkle some on it. It says to not disturb the nest and to irrigate or water it in after application...  Sorry... neither of those is gonna happen. Hope it works with the heavy dew we've been having.

I used to have large warts on my hands when I was a young guy. I used to cut them, rip them out with my fingernails, used CW, like you. Eventually they went away but the CW never really worked for me either. Now they sell this liquid nitrogen in a can and you can freeze/burn them off. I've never tried it, but did have a dermatologist at the VA burn off some skin tags with liquid nitrogen... It really does burn! It didn't cause them to freeze and break/fall off. It basically killed the cells and they blistered then dried up and fell off. Took several weeks.


----------



## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> Oh my!
> I have a tip for you: Castor oil. Dab a little on the wart a couple of times a day and it will slowly go to wart heaven. No pain, no blood, no scar. Worked on a 1/4" high wart on my thumb that Compound W took down to skin level (with pain, blood, damage to surrounding skin where the W got on it). Soon as I stopped C-W, it rose right back up to full height. A month after starting the CO it was totally gone, no evidence it ever existed other than the damage caused by the C-W.



is castor oil the same as cod liver oil?

I got a couple to go away with cod liver oil... but took a couple weeks.

my mom got rid of one by covering it with duct tape for a full month.   It was a nasty one on her thumb.

 

we sure are a hoot


----------



## CntryBoy777

No @Alaskan they are not the same....Cod Liver oil comes from a fish's Liver and Castor Oil comes from a plant. Castor Oil is also known in the south as "Spring Tonic" and will "Clean ya Out"......


----------



## Mike CHS

That was my Grandma's cure for everything but I don't remember if it worked or not, just that we had to take it.


----------



## Bruce

Presumably duct tape works to remove warts and my doctor actually suggested trying it. But this wart was right in front of knuckle on the palm end of my thumb and there was no way to get the duct tape to stick. Not even with a bandaid to try and hold it on. If one's wart is "bandage coverable" you could put some castor oil on the pad part and have it in contact with the wart for extended periods.



Alaskan said:


> is castor oil the same as cod liver oil?



I'm guessing you already knew the answer to that one. One original purpose for castor oil was as a treatment for diarrhea as @CntryBoy777 said. Another was oil in WWI 2 cycle aircraft engines. It is anti inflammatory, antimicrobial, analgesic. Doesn't smell or hurt. I have no idea if it tastes good, bad or not at all because I only used it on my wart. 

I had to have the grocery store order it, they said they used to stock it but no more. If more people knew all its "off label" properties, I bet it would be more popular. Though my chickens haven't had a problem, CO is great for scaly leg mite issues as well. The oil smothers them and its properties help the tissue/scales heal. WAY better than slathering petroleum jelly on it. That will smother the mites ... and collect every bit of dirt and small bits of shavings around and do NOTHING to help heal the damage that was done. In fact I suspect that by keeping air away from the skin, it actually makes it harder to heal.

Yeah I have become a Castor Oil "evangelist" and I do not (knowingly) own stock in any company that makes or sells it


----------



## Alaskan

funny!

I grew up in Texas, and had to take cod liver oil every winter... was it every night?  once a week for a month?  

dunno..

I remember the taste


----------



## Baymule

Cod liver oil has high amounts of vitamin D.

Joe, you sure lead a fun life. Goat milk with a foot print in it, fahr aints, poison ivy, warts, incessant mowing, more goats and more mowing. And lets not forget yummy  frozen lasagna!


----------



## Mike CHS

Thanks, I needed that Baymule


----------



## Bruce

The solution to @Latestarter's problems are easy!
1) Sheep, LOTS of sheep
2) A few anteaters
3) Automatic milking machines
4) Castor Oil
5) A live in cook


----------



## Alaskan

anteaters huh?

Wonder what kind of fence those would need.


----------



## Bruce

Probably nothing more difficult than a 4' deep concrete wall under the fence if you wanted to make sure they didn't dig out 

Oh, and I forgot, @Latestarter needs some chickens - to help smooth out the ground after the anteaters rip it all up looking for ants.


----------



## Alaskan

brilliant!!!


----------



## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> Probably nothing more difficult than a 4' deep concrete wall under the fence if you wanted to make sure they didn't dig out
> 
> Oh, and I forgot, @Latestarter needs some chickens - to help smooth out the ground after the anteaters rip it all up looking for ants.



We have 40 in the incubator that started hatching during the night.


----------



## Alaskan

I first thought that you had ants or anteaters hatching!


----------



## Bruce




----------



## goatgurl

look like anyone you know.  spotted pig on the camera about 125 yards down below my house.  very obviously pregnant sow and the timing would be about right for her.  after looking closer I decided that it wasn't spot because the ears are wrong.  spots ears leaned forward more.  oh well, was hoping she was coming home.



  I've had fire ants get into my goat feed too.  talk about a painful surprise.  I put de in and along the path of their trail and that kept them out for a while but they came back.  second time I put de in and around the feed and then put poison back behind the container the feed is in.  directions said about a tablespoon but heck no I put half the bottle.  sob's were not going to sting me again.  seems to have worked as they haven't been back in a year now.  
  hope the girls are ok.  was really glad you got a 2nd tarp for the hoop house and was also glad that youall didn't get the rain you were suppose to from Harvey.  I was thinking the other day that if there comes a point that you are tired of fooling with the goats or don't want to deal with their drama I would buy them back from you.  just a thought to keep in the back of your mind.  in my opinion cattle and sheep are so much easier to work with than dairy goats.  I of all people know how hard it is to try and get things done by yourself.  and the older I get the harder it gets, hence the name someday farm.  ttfn


----------



## Mike CHS

I haven't had goats but I know that our sheep are easy keepers.


----------



## Bruce

goatgurl said:


> spots ears leaned forward more


She's been gone awhile and I don't think a single snapshot necessarily shows the ears' "normal tilt". COULD be Spot if the rest of her patterning looks right! Catch her and @Latestarter can give it another go. If it isn't Spot, he still gets a hog ... with bonus babies.

Small rant. Gas went up $0.40 in 3 days, now generally $2.70 to $2.80. Gas in TX where the refineries are down is at or much less that we were paying at the beginning of the week. Our gas doesn't even come from TX.


----------



## Baymule

@Bruce there is supposed to be laws against price gouging, unless it is gasoline. One of the small towns between Houston and Livingston had a doughnut shop that was price gouging, a dozen doughnuts for NINE DOLLARS. The shop got put on a popular facebook site.......  Karma is a Beach!


----------



## Bruce

So why is profiteering gasoline OK??? I know it isn't the stations, it has to be up the distribution line. Happens every time there is a hurricane a'coming. Platforms MIGHT get shut down, the refineries MIGHT get shut down, there MIGHT be a shortage (*) ... jack the price of gas. Never mind that up here I have NEVER seen stations close for lack of gas. 

* And if there is it is most often due to people storing it all in their tanks rather than at the stations. Self fulfilling prophecy.


----------



## Alaskan

I know that during past hurricanes gas stations in Houston have run out of gas...




but I know nothing about how or why with the pricing.


----------



## goatgurl

@Bruce, unless spots big ole belly pulled down and made her ears stick up it's not spot.  her ears lean much further down over her face and this sow's don't.  I looked at pictures of both and compared them.  I have several pictures of miss prego.  color pattern is really close tho.  i'll wait for you and LS to come and catch her.  remember me, i'm the gal who is afraid to go in the pen with my own pig much less a wild one.  those things will eat you up.


----------



## babsbag

Glad that I am not the only one that respects a pig.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Small rant. Gas went up $0.40 in 3 days, now generally $2.70 to $2.80. Gas in TX where the refineries are down is at or much less that we were paying at the beginning of the week. Our gas doesn't even come from TX....
> 
> So why is profiteering gasoline OK??? I know it isn't the stations, it has to be up the distribution line. Happens every time there is a hurricane a'coming. Platforms MIGHT get shut down, the refineries MIGHT get shut down, there MIGHT be a shortage (*) ... jack the price of gas. Never mind that up here I have NEVER seen stations close for lack of gas.



Doesn't matter where your refinery/source of gasoline is located. Even if yyou had a refinery right accross the street from you in Vt, your retail prices would still go up the same as everyone else (maybe minus some transport/pipeline costs) Gasoline (and crude oil) are commodities--traded on the open market just like cattle, corn, gold, and currencies. Traded (bought and sold) every day.
Your local station has to buy it from someone, and that someone is a jobber or local/regional distributor. What you pay for retail gasoline/diesel today is not reflecting what it cost your retailer to buy what is in their underground tank. It is reflective of what it is going to cost to replace each gallon of fuel in that tank..whether that tanker truck is going to roll up tomorrow or next week.
As an event unfolds, and anything that might adversely affect wholesale price of refined product is foreseen, the market forces on New York Mercantile Exchange cause the price of bulk fuel to go up. (It's traded in lots of 1000 barrels or 42,000 gallons)



Same with crude oil the refineries have to buy to make the fuel from..even if they are "buying it from themselves". Not all refineries have their own crude production division..oil wells.

If an event unfolds, and a shortage or bottleneck is seen, the perceived shortage causes bulk prices to go up each day. This is reported by NYME  at 5:30 Eastern time to the major distributors, and each of those distributors adjusts their prices accordingly to the smaller local distributor and the local distributor informs the stations what their retail price should be to keep from selling fuel for far less than what the replacement fuel is going to cost. This is done so no one in the line gets stuck delivering fuel that costs them more to obtain than what they can get for it.

The biggest price hikes happen in states that have more strict emission standards and require special 'boutique' blends..these products are called Reformulated Blendstock for Oxygenate Blending (RBOB) fuels.
Garden variety gasoline I believe is still referred to as  Reformulated Regular Gasoline Blendstock for blending with 10% denatured fuel ethanol and is traded as US RBUB7.

Each step along the way, each entity involved is allowed by federal and state regulators to make a set profit margin, Whether the product is cheap or expensive to provide that margin remains approximately the same.
Some mysterious and never actually identified  entity often referred to as "Big Oil" always gets the blame, but the truth is, the entity most often causing the visible pain are the market traders on NYME, as the traders hedge against losing $$ on tomorrow's costs. Right now, Sept fuel is significantly higher than Oct contracts.

IF the event happens just before a futures contract expires (monthly) it throws things really out of kilter as we are seeing right now because the flood happened right at the end of the month.

There is some relief in sight, as several of the large refineries have begun to resume operations.



> U.S. Gulf Coast refineries and fuel distribution terminals started to reopen on Saturday, a week after Tropical Storm Harvey knocked out nearly 25 per cent of the nation's refining capacity and sent gasoline prices spiking.
> 
> While much of the region's refining infrastructure still remained offline from Harvey, which made landfall as a Category 4 hurricane last week, the restarts were a first step in alleviating concerns about U.S. fuel supplies.
> 
> Exxon Mobil Corp said on Saturday it was restarting its 560,500 barrel per day (bpd) facility in Baytown, Texas, America's second-biggest oil refinery, after it was inundated by flooding.
> 
> Phillips 66, meanwhile, said it was preparing to resume operations at its storm-hit 247,000 bpd refinery in Beaumont, Texas.
> 
> The announcements come after Citgo Petroleum Corp said on Friday it would restart its 157,500 bpd refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas.



And, as soon as refining capacity increases, the Colonial Pipeline should reopen as well. Because of design components, if there is little or nothing to flow thru it, it has to shut down to avoid damage to it's own infrastructure.



> "The refineries were built on the Gulf Coast with the idea that we're going to import," said Sandy Fielden, director of oil and products research at Morningstar in Austin, Texas.
> 
> "That's why we're having problems today because that's where they were all built."
> 
> The reduced availability of fuel forced the Colonial Pipeline, which provides fuel from refineries near the Gulf of Mexico to the U.S. Northeast, to reduce supplies.
> 
> But some crude oil pipelines had restarted. Magellan Midstream Partners announced late Friday that it resumed operations on its BridgeTex and Longhorn crude oil systems. The two pipelines transport around 675,000 bpd of West Texas crude to East Houston.
> 
> The company said it expected to resume service on its Houston crude oil distribution system over the weekend.
> 
> As of Saturday, the volume of offshore U.S. Gulf of Mexico crude production still shut in had declined to about 106,000 bpd.


http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/harvey-refineries-texas-1.4273519


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> the perceived shortage


Exactly ... PERCEIVED shortages, not ACTUAL shortages. They jack the price because there MIGHT be a shortage ... and they cash in on that. I've also noted that the price never goes down nearly as fast as it went up. I know it isn't the local stations doing this, as you said, it is the people "at the top" that decide the prices.


----------



## greybeard

The 'percieved' part is in the mind of the public, not in the supply chain. Saw a pickup truck today at the little convenience store up the road filling up two 55 gal drums. Next week, when he's burning that higher priced fuel and the pump prices have already started back down, he's not going to look so smart. Panic buying creates a shortage where none really existed.

And no, it is NOT the "people at the top". It's the people in the middle.
The market demand itself sets the price, not the refiners. It's the same as any commodity and any stock. No company gets to set what the price or value of their company's stock sells for. The buyers set it. 
When the public and the major distributors 'perceive' a shortage, the distributors start bidding up what they will pay for refined fuels and the higher price they are willing to pay gets passed immediately down to the retailer, which then raises his price at the pump the same hour he gets word from his distributor, and all this usually happens within a few hours of the closing bell at NYME, every day.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> It's the people in the middle.


True and I guess what I really meant to say. If the refineries are down, they couldn't set a price anyway, they have nothing to sell. Whatever is "in the pipeline", however many, many millions of gallons of gasoline that is, is ALL there is for the moment. Jack the price! even though under normal circumstances that gas wouldn't be sold for some time.

And yep, a LOT of the available gas is sitting in drums, cans, gas tanks of private individuals trying to buy before it goes up "too much more". And yes that does cause a temporary shortage. Of course most people aren't using any more gas per day than they were before the "shortage". They bought several days earlier than they wouldn't have otherwise (and do it again as soon as they are down a quarter tank) thus reducing the quantity "in the pipeline" below "normal". "Shortage"!


----------



## babsbag

What happened to the owner of this journal?   @Latestarter  Hope everything is ok?


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> What happened to the owner of this journal?   @Latestarter  Hope everything is ok?


Yeah, he was last seen almost a week ago, on Tuesday.  He must be busy mowing, fencing & building a dry shelter for his girls.


----------



## Bruce

Maybe it rained more than he expected, Mel let the goats in the house and they are hogging the computer.


----------



## babsbag

Maybe since he resigned as moderator he decided he doesn't have to be on BYH as much.


----------



## Mini Horses

Whatever the reason I wished he'd post.  Miss the updates.


----------



## Pastor Dave

babsbag said:


> Maybe since he resigned as moderator he decided he doesn't have to be on BYH as much.



I did not know that. Joe's not a mod anymore? Hmm. Hope you're doing ok.


----------



## Latestarter

Just a quick fly by as I understand some are curious about my whereabouts and wellbeing.  "Maybe since he resigned as moderator he decided he doesn't have to be on BYH as much." That pretty much covers it @babsbag or at least a good portion of it.


For those concerned about me, thank you.  Pulled a muscle in my back a couple days ago while mowing, so kinda hobbling around slow & all bent over at the moment. Finishing the mowing will just have to wait. Last week while trimming hooves I managed to nearly cut the tip of a finger off... Only cut 1/2 way through so cleaned it up & taped the flap back down and hoping for the best. No infection yet and seems to have reattached.  Aside from that and the usual aches and pains, I'm just fine.

No problems with Mel or the goats WRT Harvey. As anticipated, not even a draft here, let alone a drop of rain. Speaking of which, I hope all you folks down south affected weren't damaged too badly. Sorry about your equipment losses GB.  Glad you got out (and back) safely and didn't lose everything.  No rain forecast in the near term and we could use some moisture... been a while.

Since on the subject of hurricanes, I hope all those who are located in FL/GA and points north of there are prepared and all buttoned up. As I recall we have several folks on the west coast or central FL which is now anticipated to catch the brunt of Irma. Of course as large as this storm is and as narrow as FL is, the whole state is gonna be dealing with it. I feel for those on the northern leeward islands as they just had Irma and are about to get smacked again by Jose... Not that anyone is really paying attention, but there's a 3rd hurricane, Katia, making landfall down in southern Mexico. Hope those folks do OK as well.

As we discussed @goatgurl  That isn't Spot the pig. Pattern and ears aren't even close. She does look like she's about to have a litter though and she looks like she was at some point a domestic pig. She doesn't look completely feral yet. Thanks for the offer to buy the goats back, but I'm pretty fond of them. I think I'll be keeping them for a while yet. I DO still want and need sheep and a few steers though. I hope to start with a feeder pig or two as well next spring. I will also re-start chickens, just for the bug control. Kinda burned out on eggs. Don't eat them like I used to. And no, thank you, I have absolutely no interest in ducks or waterfowl of any sort.

Weather here cooled down substantially a day ago and I opened the house up last night. This morning it was 69 in here and felt wonderful. Closed the place up to retain the cool and it climbed to ~79 by end of the day. House is re-opened now and quite comfy. Nice to not be running the AC. Guess fall is right around the corner.

Went to lunch with @Devonviolet & her DH a couple of days ago. Was really good to get back together with them. Seems there's so much to chat about and it's difficult to cover all of it in the short time together. Thank you for picking up the tab (sneaky, sneaky)...

Had spoken of doing another BBQ get together and if it's going to happen it will have to be some time in October. We'll see how things fall out. No promises or guarantees.

Be well all and hope you have a great fall.


----------



## Devonviolet

I'm glad you came on to clear up your absence. BYH isn't going to be quite the same without your input & welcoming new members. 

I still remember welcoming our 10,000th member, way back when.  Little did I know that we would become friends and practically become neighbors!

DH & I enjoyed lunch at Richie's with you again. It was good to catch up.

We will have to stay in touch. We're looking forward to one of your yummy steaks!


----------



## Baymule

Glad to have you back on here. I love this time of year! The weather is so nice.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure good to hear things are okay there....except for the back and finger....hope they get better for ya....and the cooler temps will slow the grass down some, so don't push it too fast. Remember ya are retired, so Enjoy it.....


----------



## Alaskan

I know you said no waterfowl. ..but geese are great eaters of grass.  They will get almost all of their feed from grass, so very economical.

Just sayin'  


Or course sheep will also help with the grass, but I love roasted goose more than I love lamb.


----------



## Mike CHS

I was happy to show Teresa that I'm not the only one to clean and tape up wounds.  I sliced open my thigh just above the knee down to the bone while moving and since I still had a truck to unload did the same with that one.  

The forum isn't the same without your input so I'm glad to see you are well.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad you stopped back in, sorry to hear about your finger.


----------



## Pastor Dave

I pray your back heals up. The finger should do fine. When it gets reattached well enough, some soaking in warm water and Epsom salt should be good. 

@Mike CHS you are quite a trooper. A finger nearly cut off is critical. Cutting your thigh to the bone could be fatal. Good thing you did not hit the femoral artery.


----------



## Alaskan

yeah...blood spurting all over, leaving your body, is BAD.


----------



## Latestarter

So my goats aren't really sure exactly what to do with high quality hay...   Today I went and bought 6 bales of Orchard/Alfalfa (~25/75%) shipped here from NM, to replace the old hay that was still left. It was twice the cost of local hay, but figured I'd give it a try. Man does the new stuff smell sweet! Love that smell.   That and fresh cut grass smell. The smell of fresh turned good quality dirt is pretty decent as well. The ground under the compost pile and under the pallets where the old hay had been stacked smells (& looks) really rich. Might just force me into planting a garden next spring... We'll see how ambitious I become. 

The old hay will be used for bedding for them and the rest will be discarded somewhere in the back 40. I think goats are the original "grass is greener" animals.  I cut the bale wires on one and placed several flakes in their feeder and they proceed to stand on the fence and eat directly from the bales in the stack... So they're stretched out through the fence and over the top of the pallets (placed vertically to block them from doing exactly this) to munch directly from the bales...   They've been getting a lot of branches lately as well since I've been clearing property lines and mowing tracks of overhanging brush.

On the way back home I swung into a McDonald's for a sweet tea. So I'm sitting in the line waiting to pay and I see a snake slither out of the landscaping stone and under the car ahead of me. There was water runoff there and I think it was trying to get a drink.  So anyway, when the car ahead moved (it didn't run it over) I got out and persuaded it back into the gravel so it wouldn't get run over. It wasn't poisonous, and most fast food places have mice problems, so figured it was better left alive. It wasn't a big snake... maybe 18"-2' long.

In other news, I finally got the front pasture completely mowed. Hopefully only one more time before it goes dormant. I'm going to need a pull behind sprayer for the mower so I can spray for weeds. Too much area to try and cover with one of those 2 gallon hand held pump types.  Also have started pricing out/trying to locate used utility poles for a pole barn spine, or dimensional lumber, or a prefab barn structure. Time will tell. What and how depends on total cost.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I've been thru the same quandry with hay here and have determined that our goats just don't prefer it, but will nibble on it during rainy days inside the house. We have had them for 2yrs this past July and in that length of time they may, may have eaten a total of a couple of bales. I keep it for them, but their old hay is cycled to duck bedding and replaced with a fresh bale. The cooler temps have slowed the grass down some here and I certainly am thankful. Really good to hear from ya, but figured ya had been busy....but ya are missed, along with your regular comments and banter....


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## Mini Horses

My herd of does LOVE the high quality grass --  seems it is  nice to sleep on!!     Because of that, I must put only what I think they will eat at a  meal.  I use alfalfa pellets &/or cubes (if I can get the brands that have less of the stuff that makes the m hard).   on the milk stand or fed in feed bunkers.

Mine eat the hay when grass & browse is gone, not much before that.  Have heart, they do like the stuff but, YES everything is "greener on the other side".  It's to drive us crazy!!   

Glad you are able to get something done.   Also working alone, I know just how gratifying and difficult it is.   Always seems that something interrupts our plans.   Glad you posted.


----------



## Hens and Roos

our goats can get picky about the hay that is fed....Amelia is the one who is most selective of what she eats...prefers the grassy type hay and no grain at this point.


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## Bruce

Perhaps goats, being browsers, don't really want the "high test" alfalfa?? Maybe it is too rich for them. Not supposed to feed that to alpacas, in fact they are better off with second cut orchard grass hay. One site I found shows alfalfa at 15% minimum protein, orchard grass at 7% minimum.



Latestarter said:


> I cut the bale wires on one and placed several flakes in their feeder and they proceed to stand on the fence and eat directly from the bales in the stack




Actually, Laddie was doing that with hay he could just barely reach through the 2x4 wire in the corner of the "extra" coop from where the gate strikes that wall. Never mind that the stuff in their wall feeder came off the same bale. I later decided that I didn't really need the younger chickens messing in that hay (*) and given the stall door in the alpacas' area is always closed (**) I would put the "on deck" bale or 3 in there instead. Easier to get a flake or 2 to the feeder without having to open the gate while carrying the hay. I bet if I opened the stall door, took some hay off, put it in the feeder and left the door open, they'd go eat off the bales just like your goats.

* as at that point they were in that coop at night until I let them out in the morning
** since the one time they got trapped in the barn they pooped and peed in it and went back again after I'd cleaned it up


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## Baymule

Watch Craigslist for utility poles. I see them on there from time to time. Call the light company to see if they have any, ask what contractors they use to change out poles if they don't do it with their own crews. As you know, I am quite the scrounger. Every time you go to town, slide by Lowes and check out the reject rack. Cull lumber will build just as good of a barn as primo #1 stuff and costs WAY less!


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## Bruce

Isn't "cull" lumber usually twisted or curved or split or cupped or etc, etc, etc?? There is a reason it is in that rack!


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## Alaskan

Baymule said:


> Watch Craigslist for utility poles. I see them on there from time to time. Call the light company to see if they have any, ask what contractors they use to change out poles if they don't do it with their own crews. As you know, I am quite the scrounger. Every time you go to town, slide by Lowes and check out the reject rack. Cull lumber will build just as good of a barn as primo #1 stuff and costs WAY less!


I love the construction trash area at the dump.  A gold mine.  

as to goats..


Dang... my poor milk goat.

That girl is producing so well that she is way thinner than I would like.  She is up to all she wants to eat at the night milking,  2 big scoops at the morning milking, all the hay she wants 24/7 and free range browse all day.  I decided today to add a scoop of alfalfa pellets for "lunch".

Her color is good...so she hadn't been wormed. ..but I went ahead and wormed her yesterday. ..and gave her Bs and probios.  She gets selenium and E once a month.... and her copper....  

Most of what she gets morning and evening is COB.


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## Bruce

I hope she get some weight on @Alaskan though from some pictures I've seen, a healthy dairy goat can be pretty darned scrawny looking.


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## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> I hope she get some weight on @Alaskan though from some pictures I've seen, a healthy dairy goat can be pretty darned scrawny looking.



yeah...I keep reminding myself of that..and she is a Saanan... so she will never bulk out...  but I need more meat on the girl going into winter, and I don't want to dry her up.  She is such a champ. .. no decrease in production,  AT ALL, and she kidded back in March!

So, I am hoping the 3 meals a day will help, I am also going to add some more vitamins and such, see how that helps.


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## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> Isn't "cull" lumber usually twisted or curved or split or cupped or etc, etc, etc?? There is a reason it is in that rack!



Yes & no.   And sometimes depends on the store.

Sometimes they change suppliers, short stock left- sell off.  Or, no longer carry the size, color, etc.   Move it for the space to place new items.

When a 16' board has a small chunk off at the end, I have 15' good. The 4x8 T-lll had chips on one end from strapping.  I only needed 7'...got it for 1/2 price.  I was going to cut off a foot anyway.   You have to look at it and decide where you are using.   But, like Bay, I've found some great stuff, good price.   Lowe's is good for this.  Barns, huts, fences, these are more forgiving than a $500K house.


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## Goat Whisperer

Very true! We could get 16 ft boards, some over an inch thick and 4-8 inches wide depending on the board. For $1 each. It was good, strong wood and while some wasn't usable it worked our great. 

If you are on FB join local sale groups for your area. I just got two 10ft tube gates in great condition with all hardware and wheels for $25 EACH!


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## Goat Whisperer

If you scroll through the first 3 pages you can see the "barn" we built. We added on to it but it gives an idea. https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/southerns-southern-by-choice-journal-flooded.31367/


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## Bruce

Goat Whisperer said:


> If you scroll through the first 3 pages you can see the "barn" we built.


Um, I'd hate to see your "non temporary" barn. That is seriously well made and made to last.



Mini Horses said:


> When a 16' board has a small chunk off at the end



Pretty poor business sense. They sell boards from 8' in 2' increments. Sell a 16' with slightly damaged end cheap rather than cut 2' off and sell a full price 14' board?


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## HomeOnTheRange

Latestarter said:


> Today I went and bought 6 bales of Orchard/Alfalfa (~25/75%) shipped here from NM


I was wondering where all that hay was going to.  Of course it is hard to find here as they can get better prices in TX, AZ and CO.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Isn't "cull" lumber usually twisted or curved or split or cupped or etc, etc, etc?? There is a reason it is in that rack!


Yup! The joke around here is that if it is crooked, it has my name on it. One night we were in Lowes and a worker dropped a bucket of roof pitch from a high shelf. It hit the concrete floor, popped the top off and splattered goop all over some 2x6x10 on a rack. We just smiled......and scooped 12 of  them off the cull rack the next morning. 

Just because a board has a split or chunk missing, it can still be used, like @Mini Horses pointed out. We bought boards that were perfect but had speckled mold on them. Or at least the workers at Lowes thought it was mold, we used them and they still look the same, the mold monster has yet to show up. There are bargains on the cull rack. 

And I have gone dumpster diving for used lumber, cut off ends and all sorts of throw away stuff. Our barn is built out of scrounged, used and cull rack materials. We had to buy twenty two 2x6x20 rafters because I didn't have enough, all the roof decking was new and the metal for the outside. Insurance appraised it for $30,000 we have less than $7,000 in it. The metal was the most expensive part, then labor, and the few lumber articles we had to buy.


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> Pretty poor business sense. They sell boards from 8' in 2' increments. Sell a 16' with slightly damaged end cheap rather than cut 2' off and sell a full price 14' board?



Boards come tagged, size & grade.  They won't sell otherwise, so discount.  Even when an employee misscuts a board, glass, etc.  -- DISCOUNT.   That's business.

Same with so many businesses.  I've done resets for American Greetings cards.....pulled brand new cards to trash, put identical back up in a different location.      Tears me up!!!!!!!!!  I hate such waste but, that's business.   Don't even get me started on customer issues.....wow!


----------



## Mike CHS

I have picked up my share of culls at both Lowes and Home Depot.


----------



## Latestarter

Found a CL add requiring a call... no texts, no messages, just a call. They deliver truck loads of used poles for 200-500 dollars a load and stack them neatly at your place. Vary in length from 8ft to 30 ft. I'm going to contact them and see if I can buy them from them there and pay $.50-1/foot and hand pick what I need and I'll do the transport. Save them the cost & time of the trip and they'll make more than if they delivered them. Now I need to find a 20-22 foot bumper pull trailer to get them here I then have to figure out how I'm going to stand them up and get them in the holes   Guess I'll worry about that when that time comes.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh, and on another note, the goats have now discovered how good alfalfa is... And I've discovered how much of it gets wasted... As they bury their noses into each flake and pull out a mouthful it seems they dump as much on the ground as they keep in their mouths... At $11.50 a bale, this is not going to be a regular thing...


----------



## Baymule

You can't put many of them on a trailer......ask me how I know..... We put 19 of them on our trailer, moving them here from Livingston....driving REEEEEEEL slow all the way home.



Latestarter said:


> I then have to figure out how I'm going to stand them up and get them in the holes   Guess I'll worry about that when that time comes.



You'll do what we did and find a couple of handy neighbors with a BIG tractor that you can hire.


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## Mini Horses

I am laughing because it's so "been there".   And you will buy it again.    I tried putting it in a feed bunker, they ate, then jumped in!  Smaller round, big & deep tub used.  Figured I had that fixed and found they just took turns as fewer could fit in!!   Of course, soon as they stand you get pee & poop added.   Now, no one can eat what's left...which is very expensive bedding!!  

Look at Premier's website.  They have some great feeders -- sheep & goat -- that are proven effective.  Free plans for them.   Yeah, these guys keep you thinking!!!    But we keep on keeping them, the little cuties.  You get milk -- isn't that enough?


----------



## Latestarter

Mini Horses said:


> Of course, soon as they stand you get pee & poop added.



So yeah... they love walking under the hay rack and peeing on the spillage   Makes it impossible to move it back up into the rack.  Lately I've been finding poop in their water trough... Is that a statement by them of water quality I wonder? If so, doing that surely doesn't improve it would be my guess. I wonder if they're squatting and peeing in it too? Since it's a bathtub, I then have to scoop out the water level to get the weight down so I can tip it and dump the remainder then clean it... They're great at making work for me... Keeps me at least temporarily busy/occupied, gives me something to do.

Beef... it's what's for dinner... and breakfast...   oh, and lunch too     

Just finished a nice grilled ribeye for breakfast, brought out a package of thin sliced rib eye and a nice roll from the freezer to make a philly cheese steak sub (W/mushrooms & onions of course) for lunch, and a package of ground beef (85% lean Angus) to make something for dinner... Figuring I'll make a hamburger helper since I have a bunch of them. They've been there for a while as I've kinda lost my taste for them, but figure I should get them used up. Also, I expand them (use more hamburger/add extra noodles), so it will make additional meals for the next couple of days. Maybe that's why I've lost my taste for them... eating it for three days straight...  Now that I think about it, I guess you'd lose your taste for about anything if you had it too often.

Finished pounding T-posts yesterday morning for the initial pasture. I have a couple of older rotted posts on existing fence that I'm going to need to dig out and replace. Next is wood post bracing (H's and / \ leaning). Not starting that today though... real heavy humidity/low clouds, and already sweat making warmth. Supposed to have a (slight) chance for some rain today. Sure hope we get some. It's awful dry here. Haven't had rain in several weeks.

How bout them Detroit Lions? Beat the Giants in their house last night. Course the way the Giants have been playing, they'd probably get beat by the Browns or Jets  Anyway  Football season is here and since it's the only sport I enjoy, I'm happy


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## babsbag

My goats eat only alfalfa as it is the cheapest hay where I live and we have no browse or pasture since we are a dry State all summer. In addition to 1200-1400 lbs of alfalfa hay every 8 days they eat 100 lbs of alfalfa pellets and almost 50 lbs of 16% goat feed per DAY. 

I buy lumber off of the cull rack too. A few twists and turns doesn't matter for most things. I am watching for 2x4s at the moment.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> And I have gone dumpster diving for used lumber, cut off ends and all sorts of throw away stuff.


I have my barn for that. After I finally got the contractor to make the guys stop throwing everything in the 30 yard dumpster (4 years ago) I have lots of 2x (mostly < 8') full of nails and screws to pick through since they "dismantled" the stud walls with reciprocating saws. 

Yeah it takes time to pull the nails/screws but it takes time and MONEY to go buy a new piece at the lumberyard then cut it down to the size needed. I couldn't build a shed or anything but I can make lots of smaller stuff. Much of the "scrap" was basically new wood that was taken out when we had to 90% rebuild the north building of the house. The prior owners "rehabbed" the place, making finished space in the second floor (*), while ignoring and covering over the rot. Those 2x that weren't new are from early in the last century when a 2x4 was 2" x 4".

* I'm fairly certain the building was originally a barn when built pre Civil War, moved and attached to the house prior to 1900. At some point the first floor was converted partly to living space - kitchen in 1 bent, another room in the middle bent and a workshop/1 car garage in the 3rd. Neighbor across the road said the upper part was unfinished when the people we bought it from bought it in 1999.


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## Baymule

Short boards spliced together make long boards....just sayin.....


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## Bruce

True, if you need to double them up to make a 4x4. Not so good with an end to end splice of single "thickness"


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## Baymule

Bruce said:


> True, if you need to double them up to make a 4x4. Not so good with an end to end splice of single "thickness"


Yes it is. I slap on a splice board, sometimes on both sides and fill it with lots of screws. They hold. I was gonna say screw them to death.......but, well, you know.......there ARE some smart a$$es on this forum. Not that I would be one...


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## Mini Horses

Bathtub for water  --  siphon out or install a drain.   

When you cook large meals, freeze some so you don't have to eat all so close.      you can MW one during the football game & not miss a play.   The sandwich sounded really good.

Posts  --  you are doing a GREAT job!!!  

So, how's Mel?  Haven't heard much about him of late.


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## babsbag

Mel's waiting for a girlfriend. 

Just wanted to say that the feeder plans from Premier 1 rock. I have built two of them and need a third. Best feeder ever, hands down.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> there ARE some smart a$$es on this forum. Not that I would be one...


Certainly not!


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## Goat Whisperer

babsbag said:


> Mel's waiting for a girlfriend.


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## Bruce

How are the potential girlfriends perking @babsbag? Another month or so IIRC?


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## babsbag

I think they are perking along just fine. She is about 3.5 weeks bred already...goes by fast. I can tell that she is bred, of course there is always the possibility of a false pregnancy but not likely.


----------



## farmerjan

Suggestion on the feeder for alfalfa hay.  Take a cattle panel or a hog panel.  Cut in half to make 2@ 8 ft or in 4 to make 4 @ 4ft. ea.  Make a frame of 2x4s and put a piece of plywood down for the "floor" as long as the panel piece. What we did with the first one was cut it in 2 so the pieces were 4x4 but even better is some scrap boards to make it 3x4 ft.  The frame part needs to match the piece of " flooring".  Then either put legs of scrap 2x or 4x to get it the height you want off the ground.  If you make the legs separate then if they rot you just replace them.  Now the 2 pieces of cattle/hog panel are shaped like a V and put on the  solid board "floor" with solid , (again scrap) lumber on the ends, what we did was make the panels as a separate piece so it set right into/on the "floor". Oh yeah, the frame part needs to be "up" so that it holds the leaves and grain or whatever in , flat on the bottom.  What you want is a basic V shape of 2 panels, that has a floor so the fine leaves can't get on the ground, with it being too narrow for them to get up in it and they can't pull the stuff out as easy with the panels and they can't get in the ends to climb all over it. The V shape makes it difficult for them to get in it since there is less room for the body;  I know they can balance on a little 2x board when they want.

We did something like that to feed the heifers, with them getting some grain on the "floor" and the alfalfa hay that we were supplementing them with, didn't get wasted nearly so much.  Of course the cattle don't climb like the goats, but it was pretty simple and easy to slap together and not expensive.  I think the cattle panel would be better than the hog panel, you want the openings to be fairly consistent sized.  
Of course, I never had to deal with goats and their horns in it so maybe it wouldn't work.  Works like a charm for the young cattle and they can't make a mess of it. As they pull the hay out, the leaves fall on the "floor" and they can eat them too rather than have them on the ground and wasted. 
Put the legs under it high enough so that they can reach but not think they have to jump up to get the hay, but still not so low that they try to get their front feet in it to reach up higher.  
Yeah, I know goats are not reasonable......
No offense, but after farm sitting for a friend several times a year, who has 125 boer cross nannies and getting the DUMB little kids' heads out of the fence repeatedly, and even the nannies,  I don't ever want goats.  The sheep are a big enough pain but at least they aren't trying to constantly climb up on everything.  The lambs do alot of climbing/jumping but the adults don't do near as much.

Since I don't have a smart phone and this is an old computer, I don't have any way to take pics at this point and show you what I mean.  That's in the future I guess, I need to get with the modern world, but I hate to give up my virtually indestructable old flip phone.  Have dropped it, raked it into a windrow of hay, run over it with the tractor wheel in the field you name it, and it still works and no cracked/broken screen, nothing.


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## babsbag

Your feeder sounds really similar to the one built with  Premier 1 plans.  I use panels with 4x4 openings. It wears on the goat's noses a little bit but it prevents heads getting stuck or goats trying to share an opening when it is really too small. Premier sells panels that are 3x5 openings but they are $$$ but I do like them the best.


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## Latestarter

So, a couple of quick observations. Those of you with no "southern experience" will just have to come down and experience it for yourownselves...  Fire ant nests can be completely camouflaged by leaf litter... If you stand on said fire ant nest, being unaware, they WILL climb up your pant leg, inside and out, as well as up your leg and down into the loafer you are wearing (sans socks), and commence eating you... Eating will not commence until sufficient ants have gained access and then will happen all at once while additional forces invade your bodily structure... Fire ants eating you is a very uncomfortable experience, that stays with you, even after said ants have been swatted/crushed/brushed/swiped/slapped/etc. from your persona... Kicking off a loafer while in dew covered grass (barefoot) and hopping around trying to remove angry fire ants leaves a lot to be desired and bears possibly a little resemblance to "modern dance"... Not that it would be recognized as such, especially when being performed by a short, fat, non-limber, 60 year old man in the middle of a pasture...  That method of dance/expression also tends to scare away any nearby wildlife or livestock within visual range... Would probably scare away a wife if I had one to witness it.

Mel is doing just fine... He holds my flooring down quite well most of the day, and then keeps the boogey men away at night. I don't know that he's in any particular rush to have a girlfriend... I believe that's more my issue than his. He leads a very non-LGD type life all things considered. He did get some quality time with CC the other day. They like each other.

Finally called the home warranty place and got an electrician out to repair the spa. The guy suggested a new breaker box and said he'd run it by the warranty company and if approved would come back out to replace it. After sitting filled, unheated/unfiltered for over a month, the water was pretty danged nasty. Got it emptied, cleaned, refilled and turned back on but haven't used it yet. When I wanted to use it (night temps in the 50s) it wasn't working... Now we're back in the 90s and night temps in/near the 70s. Soon enough I'll get the chance.


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## CntryBoy777

.....not laughing at ya Joe, but with ya....those Fahr Ants will have ya dancin a jig for sure, and their reminders will stay with ya for a while and itch like the dickens. When ya take a shower get the water as hot as ya can stand it and let it spray the bumps....if a selector showerhead turn to massage for the pressured stream....the intense itch sensation will subside and become numb giving relief. They will cure the urge to go commando, too....Sure sorry ya had to endure such and hopefully ya will be able to tend to them properly....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Feel your pain...been there done that too many times to want to remember!


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## Mike CHS

I'll have to ask Teresa about her milk and bread remedy for stings in general.   The red wasps here have announced open season on me so I have had to use her remedy several times.  She used it on several fire ant bites last week after she stood on a nest.


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## Baymule

Joe, I read that to BJ and we had a good chuckle over your "southern experience". I have had that very same one. Them little devils will swarm all over you, give the signal, then they all bite at once. Get a bottle of Aloe Vera gel with Lidocaine in the sunburn section, it is great stuff for bug bites. In normal circumstances, it will last a LONG time. But in your case, you might want to slather the whole danged bottle on you.


----------



## Mike CHS

If you don't mind I'll do a minor hijack since I have a quick fire ant story.  Back in the early 80's I was stationed at NAS Whiting Field and lived in Pace, Florida.  We had the sandy soil that I think of whenever I see some of you Texans posting pictures and I was digging out a pine tree stump that was left over from before I bought my house.  I was dressed as a typical Floridian in July in shorts and that's about it and in hole almost 4' deep when the critters attacked.

I did the dance LS mentioned slapping myself all over and without thinking went running for the water hose and started hosing myself all over.  There must have been a couple of dozen of them critters that had made there way into my shorts and I literally had to strip down and hose myself all over to get rid of them.  Fortunately I had underwear on and the water got rid of the majority of them.  This was taking place in a subdivision and when I looked up there were several families out doing the BBQ thing and laughing their rears off since they were pretty sure they knew what had happened.


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## Baymule

SO TRUE!


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## Alaskan

so nice you weren't buck naked dancing in that water.


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## CntryBoy777

I'll spare the "Details" of my experience, but it was at an early age in Hawaii....I can't swear they were Fahr Ants, or another kind, but they certainly got my "Attention" for the rest of my life. I hate to admit it here.....but, I enjoy every ant hill I doctor.......and tell them so.....


----------



## farmerjan

Thank Goodness they are not here in this part of Va..... the ticks and skeeters and stink bugs now,  are enough...plus the d@#$%d  yellow jacket nests in the ground I always manage to find while raking hay.... I'll take some of the cold and snow to not have to deal with "fahr ants" .  Guess you don't have to worry about me moving that far south.


----------



## greybeard

I don't mind the bites themselves so much, as they are taking place, (and have more than once just gritted my teeth and endured it until I was thru with whatever I was doing) but what happens the next day when the bite site swells up with that nasty crap inside is more painful to me than the initial sting.


----------



## Alaskan

yep...all of the little pimples they leave....


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## babsbag

So glad we don't have those in CA. We have very few troublesome bugs...kinda nice.


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## Bruce

I found a reference that said Little Fire Ants were found on the island of Hawaii in 1999. That would be before you were at an "early age" @CntryBoy777. That said, whatever I'm sorry that whatever got you did so!

Sure glad Fahr Aints don't live up here and I don't blame you for taking some pleasure in destroying their hills


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## goatgurl

ok, latestarter, I have to admit, i'm a bad person because I got a pretty good giggle out of you doing the fahr ant dance.  I am so glad that I live far enough off the road that the time I did the shuck and dance there was no one around to laugh.  I have found that putting lavender essential oil on the bite helps the itch and helps to heal the bite also.  
with the girls being so wasteful with their hay I keep telling you to get a hay feeder like mine.  cheap, light weight, has a bottom for the leaves to fall on and most importantly they can't get anything but their heads in it.  if there gets to be to many stems, etc in the bottom on the floor just tump it over to empty it and start over.  who cares if its not pretty, its strong and functional.


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## Bruce

It is functional, therefore pretty!


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## OneFineAcre

goatgurl said:


> ok, latestarter, I have to admit, i'm a bad person because I got a pretty good giggle out of you doing the fahr ant dance.  I am so glad that I live far enough off the road that the time I did the shuck and dance there was no one around to laugh.  I have found that putting lavender essential oil on the bite helps the itch and helps to heal the bite also.
> with the girls being so wasteful with their hay I keep telling you to get a hay feeder like mine.  cheap, light weight, has a bottom for the leaves to fall on and most importantly they can't get anything but their heads in it.  if there gets to be to many stems, etc in the bottom on the floor just tump it over to empty it and start over.  who cares if its not pretty, its strong and functional.View attachment 38802


That's a nice looking doe
Nice rump
Her head is in the feeder but you can tell she has a nice level back too
Good job


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## frustratedearthmother

Ditto - what he said!


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## OneFineAcre

frustratedearthmother said:


> Ditto - what he said!


The wattles are just a bonus


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## Goat Whisperer

OneFineAcre said:


> That's a nice looking doe
> Nice rump
> Her head is in the feeder but you can tell she has a nice level back too
> Good job


I thought the same thing when I saw the pic earlier today!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Fire ants are just awful. I always have a bottle of permethrins spray handy. Sometimes a goat will step in a mound and it's terrible 

A while back ago I was picking up some alfalfa and orchard bales from our hay supplier. Everyone there who doesn't know me thinks I'm feeding horses. They are shocked when I say I'm feeding goats. Their faces are literally go like this -> 
I tell them the dairy goats specialty is to throw the nicest, most expensive hay on the ground and waste it. 

But last time I was there, they had an Alfalfa bale that broke open. The asked if I wanted it… I said heck yeah. A whole $13 value 
But it was almost 60# of beautiful alfalfa hay!


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## Baymule

Pork for the freezer Joe! In your town too!

https://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/d/pigs-for-sell/6321001687.html


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## frustratedearthmother

For $100 dollars each I'd get 'em in a heartbeat!  Good lookin' pork on the hoof there.  Shame my freezer is full...


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## Baymule

Our freezer is full too, but we're getting a new one today. We are buying half a beef from a friend in October.


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## Bruce

He could probably get one of THOSE home, too short a drive for a jumper


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## farmerjan

That's a giveaway price for hogs that have been fed the way they have for show.  Not any "scraps"   in the feed either so not alot of soft fat on them.  I'd get them in a heartbeat, get them worked up, cure the hams, bacons, jowls, even make canadian bacon out of some of the tenderloin, get it vacuum packed and be set for a couple of years.  No joke.  And I raised Hamps and they make a decent butcher hog.  Maybe not quite as nice as a berkshire, but still very nice.  We had hamps, durocs, and berks.


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## babsbag

dang. I have to pay 50-75 for piglets. That's a steal of a deal.


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## Latestarter

Can't do anything else involving spending money at the moment. HO insurance (~$1800) and property tax (~$1600) time has arrived to be quickly followed by vehicle registrations, holidays and the like. Spending now will have to wait until spring I'm afraid. I won't transport another animal in my existing trailer. That trailer is now for moving non-living things only. Come spring I'll look for a used livestock trailer. Life would be so much easier if I had money... just sayin'


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Life would be so much easier if I had money... just sayin'


Maybe.. I've had it and not had it and farm life isn't easy either way..


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## Baymule

When you get ready for a pig, just watch craigslist. We bought our last pigs as 4 month olds for $50 each. That was a deal we couldn't pass up. Usually a weaner piglet is $50.


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## Pastor Dave

Latestarter said:


> Can't do anything else involving spending money... Life would be so much easier if I had money... just sayin'



I totally understand. When sustenance farming was the main type of farming, folks weren't rolling in money and their ambition may have been to achieve to the level of the rich and prosperous farmer.

We now seem to want small farms and homesteads like those small family farms, but now it takes more money to do than sustenance living of today.

I heard someone say the other day that in the past everyone had a horse, and to have an automobile, you had to have money.
Now, everyone has a car, and to have a horse, you have to have money.

Everything in its season


----------



## Latestarter

Pastor Dave said:


> I heard someone say the other day that in the past everyone had a horse, and to have an automobile, you had to have money.
> Now, everyone has a car, and to have a horse, you have to have money.



OMG isn't THAT the truth?!  Very good post Dave!


----------



## Latestarter

So it finally cooled down enough that I got to use my now working, freshly cleaned & refilled, jacuzzi. Gives me one more reason to be happy that cooler weather is soon to be here. I actually had the house opened up and AC off for most of the day. By dusk, it had gotten up to 80 in here and was a little humid, so I closed the place up and used the AC to get it nice again. We got a few sprinkles today... you could barely feel one when it hit you, and the dots they left on the ground were very spread out and didn't last long. We really could use a couple of days of light steady rain. It's really dry here.

As an aside, I have no idea where they are coming from and hence no idea how to eradicate them... These little tiny gnats... like fruit flies. They are quick and hard to smash and have a habit of committing suicide in my drinks, or flying into my mouth or up my nose. They do seem attracted to light and land and skitter all over the computer screen where I try (mostly unsuccessfully) to smash them. They are all through the house, not just in the computer room... very annoying. Maybe it's time for a major house bug bombing...

Past couple of days I've had bees on my mind... Kinda goes hand in hand with planting fruit trees and a garden next spring... Guess I have a few months to ponder it.

There's an electric company, (not public utilities type) that I pass quite frequently and they have one of those telephone pole bucket trucks with the auger and lifting boom. I think if I can catch the driver, I'm going to ask how much he'd charge per pole to plant the main outline posts for a pole barn... Might be worth the price in manpower/hours saved. Like if he'll do it on off hours, under the table so to speak...


----------



## CntryBoy777

A bug bomb would be a waste, if ya continue to raise the windows. We have swarms of those over here too and truly are annoying, but here shortly they will be gone with the onset of cooler weather.........we call them gnats.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Maybe it's time for a major house bug bombing...


Perhaps some fly strips placed in strategic places with lights might cut them down a bit.


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## goatgurl

get a few small jars or glasses, put about an inch of acv in it, next put a couple of drops of dish detergent in it and set them around the house.  gnats love vinegar and will go in and drown themselves.


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## Mike CHS

I need to file that little tidbit away.


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## Latestarter

Thank you! will do that right now.


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## Latestarter

OK, I didn't do it "right then"... but shortly after signing off, I took 6 small preserve type jars and put white vinegar, apple juice, and some liquid dawn in each. I didn't have any ACV, so figured that ought to be close. Then spread them around the house. 2 in the kitchen, one dining room, one near my recliner, one MBR bathroom and one on top of my computer. I'm still seeing the little things zipping around, but there are at least a dozen dead in the bottom of the jelly glass here at the computer (& none presently on the screen), a half dozen in each of the 2 kitchen ones, several in the one by my recliner. Haven't really looked at the other two but I think that's a good summation. Indeed it works!   Might have to give some more of these old "country solutions/remedies" a try.

Thanks again GG! 

On a sadder note, I wasn't able to finish watching my team lose this afternoon. My blood pressure could no longer take the strain of screaming at the TV   Still love them, but am very displeased with them.   They've got a lot of issues and they better get a grip on at least the worst of them pretty quick here as the season is now 1/4 done and they're sitting at 50%   I will admit that I am quite spoiled as they've won 5 super bowl rings over the last 18 years and played in two others that they unfortunately lost. In other associated news, there were several very surprising upsets today. Just goes to show, those of us who thought/think we know who the better team is, really don't have a clue... Guess that's why they still have to play the game. Kudos to the winners.

So, instead, I went back to my hay guy and purchased more hay. This time I bought 6 bales of alfalfa and 2 bales of coastal. As soon as I finish the last of the previous alfalfa, I plan to put some coastal out and see how they do with that. $7/bale compared to $12/bale... I sure hope they like the cheaper stuff... especially since there's virtually no stems, it's all long leaf, and there should therefore be a fraction of the waste as well. I'll let y'all know.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad ya got a handle on the gnats, hope your team does better for ya....and hope the hay is a Hit for ya too.....big difference in price. There's nobody that sells alfafa hay in the vicinity here, just pellets. How's the herd doing?.....the grass will be giving ya a break before too long with shorter days, no water, and cooler temps.....will be able to use that time elsewhere and get things ready for Spring.....


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## Mike CHS

We paid just under $13 a bale last year for alfalfa at the Farm Center here so gladly paid $4.50 a bale this year to pick it up in the field.


----------



## goatgurl

really glad the gnat catcher is working.  just remember to empty the jar every once in a while.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> We paid just under $13 a bale last year for alfalfa at the Farm Center here so gladly paid $4.50 a bale this year to pick it up in the field.


That is a lot of money, how big are those bales??? "Pick your own" is surely a good plan, glad you can find that. No pickup, stack, delivery cost for the farmer, no middlemen marking up to cover their costs plus profit. I think the people across the road must do that. I paid Al $4/bale (orchard grass), delivered into the barn on his trailer. But I saw the neighbors unloading their pickup into the hay elevator so they must have picked it up themselves. That is good for Al I think, he's in great shape but now at 70, he's much more fond of the round bales he never has to physically touch. I know he doesn't care for the squares but there are those of us who can't handle rounds. I only got 20 bales this year having 19 of last year's 38 remaining at the time (mid July). The neighbors get about 250 bales for their 3 horses and 2 alpacas.


----------



## Mike CHS

The bales we bought last year were over 100 lbs each and longer than what we bought this year.  We are using the trailer that got beat up last year by the tornado for storage.  It holds exactly 50 bales.


----------



## Bruce

Well then, I guess $13/bale isn't so bad after all. But $4.50 for a shorter bale this year is way better  Of course you'll have to get them up on the trailer.


----------



## Latestarter

Just gave the goats the last installment of the previous alfalfa purchase. As soon as they finish wasting 1/2 of that I'll give them the coastal I bought and see how they do with it.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, the gnat catchers are still working their magic. Might have to set up another 1/2 dozen though as I'm still seeing those little things flying around. I have no idea where they're coming from. If I could figure that out I could stop them at their source. So I have to empty them every now and again too? Dang it! I was hoping just setting them out would be enough... They're starting to lose the vinegar smell so I'm thinking I'll be redoing them soon. Just picked up my drink and there was one running around the rim... 

Had to go out and do some running around today. Got my son his free hunting and fishing license for here. He's a more than 50% disabled vet so it's all free for him. He's looking forward to doing some hunting when they come for a visit in December. While out, I stopped and paid my water bill & while there remembered that the animal shelter was near there so asked the folks behind the desk if they could give me directions. They did... huge mistake...

They had PUPPIES!!    Man... y'all know where I'm coming from here... or most of y'all anyway... They also had a couple of kittens. Now I'm not a cat person by any stretch, but these kittens were so cute and tiny and playful...   I felt so bad for those dogs... All they want is someone to own.   They were so excited to see me and get a scratch...    Mel was super excited when I got home as he smelled them on me immediately. He had to get a good sniff of every part of me that came in contact with them.

There was one 14 year old pit bull that was just laying there having given up on life. I guess she's in there as part of a legal case as someone claimed she bit them. It's still in court & the owners have stopped coming to visit her and she's just so depressed that she's basically given up. She barely has any teeth, I don't see how she could have bitten anyone. So sad. I shouldn't have gone. 

Supposed to be a 30% chance of T-storms tonight after 1am, 50% tomorrow, then 30% tomorrow night. I'm looking at the satellite pictures and radar and see nothing anywhere near, so wonder where the moisture is going to come from to give us rain?  






Oh well... Guess I just have to hope it comes from somewhere. Walked around the back pasture this evening and the grass is crackly crisp. It's very dry.


----------



## Mike CHS

We had some rain today and I have no idea where it came from as there was only scattered clouds.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We sure need some here, the grass isn't crunchy dry, but most is spent anyway. It is keeping me from sowing the rye grass, so throwing the growth of it behind for fall, winter, and spring browsing. The best chance we have is 20% the next 2 days, but doesn't look promising...the humidity is sure going up.


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## Baymule

Later on, when you have chickens, the gnats can get real bad. To give them relief, spray the chickens on the roost at night with vanilla. It repels the gnats. I even hung the vanilla scented auto air fresheners shaped like little Christmas trees in the coop.


----------



## greybeard

Been sporadic rainfall here since about dusk yesterday. First rainfall in about a month. My cattle are acting nervous...bad memories?


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Just picked up my drink and there was one running around the rim...


At least it wasn't doing the backstroke!

Hopefully the more you catch, the fewer there will be to make more.


----------



## Latestarter

Bad memories indeed... Hard to believe it's already been over a month since Harvey...

Well, Mel let me know at 4am that the sprinkles had started. He wanted in. Went back to bed and slept till ~ 9am. That was nice. Went and did milking and goat chores in the 90% humidity, no rain. Checked the gauge and there wasn't anything in it but we did get enough to make small puddles on the tarp covering the hay. Since then, we've had some thunder and some pretty decent rain. Not going to amount to much inches wise, but it did come down for a bit and left puddles from run off. Looking at the radar it appears there may be a chance for more later as the moisture comes up from the S/SE.

Had no idea just how many gnats I had inside. There are 20-30+ in several of the jars and I'm STILL seeing them flying around. It's an infestation I tell ya   & the house is not opened up either... They have to be breeding in here someplace...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Got any bananas or bad potatoes anywhere?   I once lost a potato under the sink.... missed the trash can I guess and it got really funky and nasty and had gnats everywhere!   ugh


----------



## Mini Horses

Dog pound -- you know, they just want someone to love on them.  They hope to find a new & loving home.  Until then, they would really, really like you to visit more often.

Gnats...can get in places as small as the thickness of a piece of paper.   Check any potatoes, onions, fruit, etc. for ripeness.  They love that stuff...like fruit flies.   Never heard of vanilla used but I know peppermint they dislike.

Here in VA this AM it was 58 degrees & dew so heavy it looked like it had rained.   Needed boots to go feed.  Steam coming off of water in tanks & ponds I passed on way to work.   Low 80s yesterday, humidity, then night cooling.   My grass is still growing!!!

Yep -- money can make things easier to manage.  Like GB, I have had plenty and have had none.   Plenty was more fun!    But I am thankful to know how to survive with less.   Agree with Pastor Dave, everything has it's season.   A horse can be slower but more fun than a car...IMO.   Just yesterday the danged CL had a lovely, older Arab mare for a mere $300.   I am soooo tempted.  Then there is more hay and feed and farrier...so, not doing.   A decent used bike is less if I needed transport beyond my trucks & car.

OH -- so far as the hay -- I can tell you.  They will still waste about the same amount, it will just cost you less.     Go count gnats.


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## CntryBoy777

In this neck of the woods, when gnats get in your drink it becomes a protein drink.....just added protein...it is....


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## greybeard

There are worse things than gnats to find in your drink.....


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## Bruce

Um, do we want to know what @greybeard ?


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, during this time of the year here in the south....it is best to look before ya drink, if drink is outside, cause Yellow jackets are prone to be there....especially if there is sugar in that drink. I much rather have a gnat in my mouth, than a yellow jacket.....I've experienced both and 1 is definitely Worse than the  other....


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## Bruce

Um, yeah, check that drink!


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## Alaskan

eaten a bee before... once you figure out it is in there...bight fast is all I am saying!!


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## Latestarter

Wow, Nate's a fast moving storm. Good and bad in that. Hope all dealing with it come through OK. Guess it's having the worst effects over in the Carolinas. Prob gonna flow up into VA next then the rest of the east coast. No direct impact here, but tomorrow is supposed to be low 90s followed by 2 days in the mid 70s and night temps down into the upper 40's & lower 50s! Love sleeping with the window above my head opened. Did so last night and it's the best sleep I've had in months. Had to turn the AC back on this afternoon. Upper 80's right now outside and blazing sun. Gotta stay chill while watching football  some pretty good games already today.  

Have been thinking about going out for dinner... was thinking/considering either Chinese buffet or Chili's for hot wings and BBQ baby back ribs, but Dallas is playing so places with TV's and alcohol are probably pretty busy... or maybe Domino's take out pizza (Lrg 3 topping for $7.99), but then pizza is popular with game day crowds as well... 

Quite a disparity, I know... But in the end, I realized I'd taken a pkg of Brats out of the freezer, so when I'm done here, I'll go start the grill and do grilled brats for dinner. Love them grilled sausages  yum.

So tomorrow I''m planning to ride the mower then when that cooler air hits, it's back onto fencing.


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## Mini Horses

We are getting some needed rain here in VA....not windy or heavy but a really nice rain.  Stop & start.  It's 82 & 100% humidity!   But I worked, so inside. 

Haven't watched weather in past 12 hrs, so not sure this is from Nate, may just be a front cruzin thru.   It's good, whatever it is.  Last news I heard they said probably Mon for Nate rain.    If it's like today's I'm good with it.  Puts the kabatch on some outside things but, there's later in week.  

Hope you are enjoying your games.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yeh, they were projecting abput 1.5" here, but it kept moving east and our 40-60% chance of rain amounted to a couple of sprinkles that didn't even wet the goat's bkts for me to wipe out.....guess I'll have to get the hose and dampen their back pen so I can spread some seed out. Temps are suppose to range in the 80s for the next wk or so...88° here now.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Wow, Nate's a fast moving storm.


Must be! We had rain this morning, then it got nice and sunny and 72° so we opened windows. Supposed to get 1.25" of rain tomorrow between 8 AM and 8 PM. Near 100% chance during much of that time. I ASSUME that is coming from our buddy Nate.



Latestarter said:


> But in the end, I realized I'd taken a pkg of Brats out of the freezer, so when I'm done here, I'll go start the grill and do grilled brats for dinner. Love them grilled sausages  yum.


And it saves money to buy more fence


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

goatgurl said:


> get a few small jars or glasses, put about an inch of acv in it, next put a couple of drops of dish detergent in it and set them around the house.  gnats love vinegar and will go in and drown themselves.


We've done this in our barn.


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

Mike CHS said:


> We paid just under $13 a bale last year for alfalfa at the Farm Center here so gladly paid $4.50 a bale this year to pick it up in the field.


I wish we had someone locally that did enough alfalfa to sell it for $4.5.  It's uncommon enough that people want 12 bucks for it.  We can get it hauled in from easter Washington for around $6 for the 65lbs bales but we would have to take 2 tons.  It would take us years to go through that much.  For now we are sticking to pellets and a grass mix that we pick up out of the field for $3.50.  Next year it will be out of our field


----------



## Bruce

Must be you don't have too many hay burners  But I'm like you, the 2 alpacas only eat about 25 small squares a year. 2 tons would get REAL stale.


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

If we keep the goats and two llamas in the barn pasture they eat about a bale of hay a day.  We are having to keep them close because they found a stretch of barbed wire fence they could get through by pushing their way through a blackberry bramble. It was 6’ deep on our side of the fence at the spot where they ate a hole to the fence line and about twice that on the neighbors side.  It made a pretty funny looking goat sized tunnel.


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

The 2 tons would be pretty bad on its own but our vet want alfalfa to just be part of the diet so we would still need the grass hay


----------



## Bruce

Jeanne Sheridan said:


> If we keep the goats and two llamas in the barn pasture they eat about a bale of hay a day.  We are having to keep them close because they found a stretch of barbed wire fence they could get through by pushing their way through a blackberry bramble. It was 6’ deep on our side of the fence at the spot where they ate a hole to the fence line and about twice that on the neighbors side.  It made a pretty funny looking goat sized tunnel.


Nice of them to start cleaning up those blackberries for you! When you get the fence fixed, they can finish the job on your side. If the neighbor wants theirs cleaned out as well, they can rent your goats.

My understanding with regard to alpacas, which I ASSUME would also apply to llamas since they are kissin' cousins, is that they shouldn't get high protein feed, second cut orchard grass is better. I know squat about goats.

I found this, it suggests anything between 100% orchard grass to a 70% orchard, 30% alfalfa mix is good for camelids. Probably easier to feed if your field is a proper mix . Not sure how you achieve it with a bale of orchard and a bale of alfalfa. Likely the more dominant animals will take what they want. Though the animals might self regulate. My boys eat some hay all summer long even though there is way more grass (type unknown) in their 1 acre enclosure than they can eat. I figured "fresh greens" would always be preferred but they have other ideas.
http://www.c-r-alpacas.com/Alpaca Tips/types_of_hay.htm


----------



## babsbag

My goats are on 100% alfalfa. No alfalfa=no milk. I just bought a 1400lb. bale of 4th cutting alfalfa that was tested with a TDN (total digestible nutrients) of 66% which is about the best you can get. We will see if it ups the milk output, but is sure did lower my bank account.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, it's been a couple of eventful days. The weather got very nice as predicted.  Had to actually put on a lined flannel shirt this morning to go milk. Sweet! Highs today were mid 70s.   Tomorrow is supposed to be mid 80s then Friday on, back into the 90s.  So, I spent 2 days on the mower working the pastures and went out this morning to finish it up. Have maybe an acre and 1/2 in the back left to do. So I got about 1/2 way around the circumference and the mower slowed down to a stop.   So I tried to reverse and it started backing up then stopped.  Checked the transfer case release and it was all the way in. Checked with blades on and off. No matter what I tried, no go.     I broke my lawn tractor... again...  

So I got the truck and chained to the front bumper and dragged it up to where my utility trailer is. Hooked up the trailer and moved it into position then pushed the tractor onto the trailer, tied it down and got ready to bring it back to Lowes. They would come pick it up, but that would add another week to the repair time. The repair facility picks up from Lowes tomorrow (Thursdays), so hopefully I can have it back in 2 weeks or less. I may just call the repair place (same place I used last time) and see if I can pick it up there directly when it's done/ready. Though it's under warranty, they only authorized $300 for the repair... I was told if it's more than that I have to cover it. I was like, OK, so what kind of warranty is that, if I have to pay?   It better not come to more than $300.  I paid extra $$ for the extended warranty because I knew this piece of equipment was NOT going to live a golf course life...

So before loading the tractor, I noticed one trailer tire was low so checked and filled both. My cheap a$$ inflation tool with pressure gauge from Harbor Freight isn't working on any tires now... It blows air outside the stem vice inside. So I have to return that and get an actual pressure gauge. I bought a basic tire inflation chuck and it works fine. The trailer wasn't riding real smooth at low speed but steadied out at highway speed. So when I got to Lowes, I walked in and when I came back out with the service guy so he could get the serial #, I notice one trailer wheel is almost flat, tread shredded and riding on a low inflated inner liner/tube.    Great... here's another unneeded expense...  As it turns out, I had noticed several tire places en route so figured I'd limp back to one and get 2 new trailer tires. $125.00 later, the trailer now has new sneakers. I suppose I shouldn't complain as they were the original tires from like 2003  And the trailer spent most of its life sitting parked with nothing in it... much like most trailers. Kinda surprised there wasn't dry rot... or maybe there was and that's what caused the tire failure...   I've never had a tire come completely apart like this one did. I mean serious chunks of tread were simply gone. Happily, the inner liner/tube held out long enough for me to get to the tire place without popping and making me drive it on the rim. Hopefully these tires last as long as the original set.

So, now I have to wait and see how long it takes before I can mow again. I'm also lucky that the portion left to be done is the one that's the slowest growing, as it has the most trees. I was told anywhere from 2 weeks to 4-6 weeks... When I heard that I said OH no! 6 weeks will absolutely not cut it. If I don't have it back in 2 weeks, I'm gonna be screaming bloody murder at Lowes seeking a loaner mower <sigh> It only has like 130 hours on it. The mowed portion of the pastures looks awesome


----------



## Mike CHS

We put out some of that gnat catcher mix this afternoon when a bunch of gnats came in from somewhere and they were all gone in short order.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure sorry to hear that Joe....ya seem to have way more than ypur share of tires issues....tho, those '03 tires were old enough to fall apart, whether used much or not. My Dad has bike tubes still "Brand New" in the box...no barcodes...but, since they have never been used he thinks they are still Good. Sure glad ya got as much cut as ya did....hope it is something simple to fix and will be back to ya quickly. You'll have to make sure ya get some use out of those new tires before 2031...


----------



## Bruce

Oh man, sorry about the mower! I'm knocking on wood I don't have similar issues. I think we both use them a bit "off label". We should be out there with a real tractor and a brush hog or flail mower. 

I don't trust the gauge on my smaller plugin inflator but my FIL gave me a nifty "gauge with a hose and air relief valve" thing years ago. It is great, over inflate a bit then release the excess. I had to replace the hose this year, it was all cracked and started to leak air. 

Very similar to this but my gauge goes to over 100 PSI:
https://www.amazon.com/QuickCar-Racing-Products-56-041-Pressure/dp/B003TQ4ADU






This one would be useful as well since it connects to a "real" compressor so you can fill, read and bleed:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073QJ82D4?psc=1


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## CntryBoy777

Oh, don't forget to grease the bearings on the trlr.


----------



## greybeard

Got a link to the make and model mower you have LS?
(I wanna make sure I never buy one like it)


----------



## Latestarter

It's a troybilt 50" riding mower. http://www.troybilt.com/equipment/troybilt/super-bronco-50-xp-lawn-tractor

Pretty much all the name brands use the same parts, engines, components, so you pretty much throw the dice with whatever you buy.  Like Bruce said, even though mine is supposed to be for rough terrain and large area mowing, what I'm doing would be much better serviced by a real tractor with a bush hog.  Some day... can't afford the loan right now.

as for the tire gauge...



 <---this is the ($9) cheap a$$ gauge I bought that doesn't work. It's the service end that doesn't work (bayonet air faucet)... the clip on function works but I can't get a seal on the valve so the air just pours out around it and doesn't get into the tire. I'm going to bring it back and try to return it with no receipt. I plan to replace it with something like:



<---this ($4).  Since I have the basic chuck that works, all I really need now is a gauge to read pressure to make sure pressure is correct.

Down to 55 degrees right now. Many windows open. I'll close them up in the morning before it get's too warm to keep the cool in. Just finished with the jacuzzi. Love the fall! Cooler weather is only temporary right now. Got a little more 90s to go before it sets in for real.


----------



## Mini Horses

Sorry about the mower......at least you got MOST cut.

Notice how we all just keep on "talking" on your thread -- while we wait for you to return???   

Are you still milking?   Rebreeding does?   How's Mel?


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> It's a troybilt 50" riding mower. http://www.troybilt.com/equipment/troybilt/super-bronco-50-xp-lawn-tractor
> 
> Pretty much all the name brands use the same parts, engines, components, so you pretty much throw the dice with whatever you buy.


Ah yes, now I remember. As my former shop foreman once said "Troy shouldn't ever have built a dam thing".

I stay way away from hydrostatic transmissions on anything except the higher end mowers and tractors.

I am not a fan of cutting down good forage unless it's to make hay with. 
How many linear feet of fence do you need built to increase your stocking rate and let that forage turn into milk and meat?


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

Bruce said:


> Nice of them to start cleaning up those blackberries for you! When you get the fence fixed, they can finish the job on your side. If the neighbor wants theirs cleaned out as well, they can rent your goats.
> 
> My understanding with regard to alpacas, which I ASSUME would also apply to llamas since they are kissin' cousins, is that they shouldn't get high protein feed, second cut orchard grass is better. I know squat about goats.
> 
> I found this, it suggests anything between 100% orchard grass to a 70% orchard, 30% alfalfa mix is good for camelids. Probably easier to feed if your field is a proper mix . Not sure how you achieve it with a bale of orchard and a bale of alfalfa. Likely the more dominant animals will take what they want. Though the animals might self regulate. My boys eat some hay all summer long even though there is way more grass (type unknown) in their 1 acre enclosure than they can eat. I figured "fresh greens" would always be preferred but they have other ideas.
> http://www.c-r-alpacas.com/Alpaca Tips/types_of_hay.htm


What we are feeding now is a mix of orchard, timothy,and wild grasses.  The goats and llamas both seem to love it and we get less dropped feed than before because it is very fine stem.  When we have hay put in next spring it will be a similar mix.  We showed it to our vet and he gave us the go ahead.  We are doing alfalfa as pellets for everyone and with their height it's easy to make sure the llamas get their share.  Even our big mama goats can't reach the llama's bowls. If we do find a local source we can afford of alfalfa we can do a hay mix into the feeders. We hope to have all our babies back out in fields by the weekend. When they are out there we use less than half a bale of hay a day. It's taking time to clear the blackberries from the fence line to get in to replace the barb wire with mesh.  Some of the canes are more than an inch in diameter.  We are working are clearing a two foot path along the fence but that means cutting them off at the ground and along both sides of the path.  It has meant that we have lots of blackberry leaves for the goats and llamas.  There is grass in the pasture they are in and we have been giving them wind fall apples.


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

babsbag said:


> My goats are on 100% alfalfa. No alfalfa=no milk. I just bought a 1400lb. bale of 4th cutting alfalfa that was tested with a TDN (total digestible nutrients) of 66% which is about the best you can get. We will see if it ups the milk output, but is sure did lower my bank account.


I know what you mean about the expense of alfalfa.  We don't have a way to handle the big bales so it is just 65 pounders for us.  The best price we have found is $13 a bale and because it is so rare here he sells out in days. With a pellet alfalfa added to a mixed orchard, timothy, wild grass hay we are getting as much as 2 gallons per goat per day from our big Nubians. Our mixed breed and Nigerian are less but still a decent amount so I think the mix we are using must be working for them.  We do wish we could find a local source of alfalfa for good price.


----------



## babsbag

I have no shortage of places to buy alfalfa in No. CA but I am never thrilled with the prices. I pay about 16.00 for a 110 lb. bale at a feed store and 13.00 for the same bale from my hay guy. But I buy the BIG bales as it is easier to slide it off my dump trailer than it is to stack the smaller bales. I can pay between 160.00-200.00 for one of those bales depending on where he buys them, he isn't growing it, he is brokering it.


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## Jeanne Sheridan

babsbag said:


> I have no shortage of places to buy alfalfa in No. CA but I am never thrilled with the prices. I pay about 16.00 for a 110 lb. bale at a feed store and 13.00 for the same bale from my hay guy. But I buy the BIG bales as it is easier to slide it off my dump trailer than it is to stack the smaller bales. I can pay between 160.00-200.00 for one of those bales depending on where he buys them, he isn't growing it, he is brokering it.


We get our regular hay right out of the field for $3.50 for 65 lbs.  If we have to get it from his barn it's $4.  We have no way to get the big bales up in our hay loft, the 65 pounders are tough enough. So little alfalfa is planted here that the feed store almost never has a supply.


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## Pastor Dave

@Jeanne Sheridan, I'm not sure your method on removing the blackberry bushes, but I am thinking chainsaw, bull dozer, or even burning to clear 'em. Nor sure your potential of keeping critters away while working, but surely noise or fire is a deterrent.


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## Bruce

Jeanne Sheridan said:


> It's taking time to clear the blackberries from the fence line to get in to replace the barb wire with mesh.


Clearly you need to tie the goats just out of reach of the fence so they can do all the work for you.


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## Jeanne Sheridan

Pastor Dave said:


> @Jeanne Sheridan, I'm not sure your method on removing the blackberry bushes, but I am thinking chainsaw, bull dozer, or even burning to clear 'em. Nor sure your potential of keeping critters away while working, but surely noise or fire is a deterrent.


We have a hard blade Stihl Weedeater that lets us get in to cut the canes without getting torn up by the thorns.  We have a chainsaw but it doesn't have the same reach.  Burning is not a option.  Though they lifted the summer burn ban last Friday, you can't do open brush burning.  We had too dry of a summer.  We would love to be able to do it with a bull dozer but there is a culvert on our side of the fence and not enough clearance through trees on the other side for most of the length of the fence line.  Farm land is different here than the areas where I grew up in California and Montana.  They carve the farms out of the forest.  When our place was build in 1915 they cut the fir trees down to clear the land then milled it on sight to build every thing.  The trees were 6-8 feet in diameter.  The forest now is second or third growth but they are still big trees.  We talked about tethering a couple goats out there to work on the blackberries but we have cougar, coyote, and bear up in the trees. Normally that wouldn't be an issue during the day but a bear is coming down after apple trees on our fence line to fatten up for the winter. Neighbors have also spotted a couple young adult cougars checking out livestock.  They call the county but the cats are always gone before help arrives.


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## Pastor Dave

That is a lot of obstacles to be sure. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. I can't relate with the big predators. The biggest we have is coyotes. I guess I would be pretty uneasy with bear and mountain lions roaming around. Good luck with your ventures.


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## greybeard

Jeanne Sheridan said:


> We have a hard blade Stihl Weedeater that lets us get in to cut the canes without getting torn up by the thorns.


Have one here too. They are truly an implement of destruction, and I've cleared some huge thorny, tangled areas of green briar, yaupon, and blackberry vines in short order with it. I use herbicides under fenclines to prevent regrowth, but here at byh, use of them is not widely accepted for some reason. 'Where Greybeard goes, nothing grows'. 
My place was also taken from raw forest, and the forest always wants it back.


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## Mike CHS

Do you guys have the saw blade attachment?  I bought the accessory when I bought my Stihl but haven't used it.


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> Do you guys have the saw blade attachment?  I bought the accessory when I bought my Stihl but haven't used it.


Yes, I use the saw blade. This is my preference, as it is easily resharpened.
http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10180/1595/100_1156.JPG

I do not like these because they are prone to vibration and don't work as well on heavy brush and small saplings.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/5FAAAOSwMKpUZNKj/s-l300.jpg

For those who are wondering, this is what comes in the kit to change from string trimmer to brush cutter:





Takes about 5 minutes to change from string head to brush head. There is a little shoulder the blade has to fit on..make sure the blade sits down flat on the shoulder/arbor.

Check with your Stihl dealer to make sure your powerhead is big enough to run a brush blade. Not all are.  I generally keep all guards in place when using mine, tho I sometimes remove the lower part of the guard that has the metal piece that cuts the string. It just pops out by depressing a plastic tang.*
Nut needs to be tightened firmly but not over tightened. Left threads. Don't forget to grease the gearbox..it takes more beating with the brush blade than normal string cutting.
The following slideshow shows how to instal the knife blade but the saw blade goes on the same way. They show doing it with the unit held upside down, but I've done it so often, I just do mine with the unit sitting on the tailgate of my truck in normal position.
http://www.stihl.com/metal-cutting-attachment-brush-knife-250-mm.aspx

I recommend wearing steel toe or sturdy leather boots when using brush blades.
*Mine is an older unit, and here's what I do to acheive lower cutting. The newer units, the guard is a one piece unit--I can't recommend removing the entire guard:


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## Bruce

My guard is similar to that. It has a plastic string cutter though. The 2017 model has a metal cutter which makes a lot more sense. I've not yet bought the circular saw blade but have used the 3 point knife blade on thick weeds. Easy to sharpen as well. Definitely don't want to run it full out or it will vibrate as @greybeard noted. I did make sure I bought a large enough unit to run the saw blades and purchased the cultivator as well.


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## Mike CHS

We have the cultivator and love using it in our boxed in beds.


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## Latestarter

Well, supposed to be 91 tomorrow, then high of 69 on Sunday with "a chance of rain" between there... That large a difference to me indicates a rather major front passing through which I always associate with rain and T-storms... Sure could use the rain.


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## Alaskan

I sure would love that heat!


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## CntryBoy777

I'm right there with ya on the rain....suppose to get some tonite....I'm really hoping we do, I got the area inside the fence sown today with ryegrass. After the rain, I have 10lbs of winter peas to throw around also. It is suppose to get down to 44° monday nite/tuesday morning here.


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## Bruce

Downright cold @CntryBoy777 !!


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## CntryBoy777

It sure will be, but I welcome it....cause that'll mean the skeeters and wasps will be Exiting the picture shortly and I will be able to get some things done on the clean-up list. I don't have fencing to deal with, so I will be able to spend some time getting things in shape around here....so Expansion can get underway.....gotta get ready for a few more animals....


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## Latestarter

67 degrees outside right now @1:22pm. Woke up to 56 degrees inside this morning.   A might brisk... House is opened up right now (no change since yesterday), but probably gonna close up most of the house tonight.  Forecast mid 40s again tonight then low 50s climbing to 60s overnight for rest of the week. Nice.    Day temps supposed to climb back to low 80's starting tomorrow and stay right there for the rest of the week. Have I mentioned that I love the fall?


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## Mike CHS

We got down into the high 30's and a light  frost this morning.


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## CntryBoy777

We hit 40 last nite/this morn....had to put my tennies on to step out on the porch...socks just wasn't enough....


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## Pastor Dave

Yah, this is flannel shirt weather. Next comes hoodie weather, then Carhart. Sometimes when it gets real cold,  it's hoodie under Carhart weather. Also prefer to go in order and not skip straight to Carhart or creep back to flannel shirt or T-shirt weather. Haha


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## Mike CHS

I wore long pants today for the first time since May.


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## farmerjan

Was 40 @ 2 a.m. when I left for work.  38 at the farm @ 3 a.m. Dropped to 32 @ about daylight at the farm and some frost but not a hard killing frost.  Sun came out got up to the low 70's.  Will drop again tonight then a little bit warmer.  Hey, it is October.....we will hover in these type temps for a month or so if it is anything like the last few years.  NOT looking forward to winter... and the crazy hours I have to keep.  SO READY to retire.


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## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I wore long pants today for the first time since May.



Not here! I put the short pants away some time back. We were supposed to be just below freezing last night. It was 25° at 6 AM.


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## Mini Horses

farmerjan said:


> Was 40 @ 2 a.m. when I left for work



Yeah, those hrs make you want to give it up!!  It's always worse when you have to leave to someone else's farm, not your own work.   But dairy starts early!   

We're only a few degrees warmer than you all here on the coast.  A little nippy this AM but, doable.   It's roller coaster time of year in VA.


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## Baymule

It got to 41 last night. We leave the kitchen windows up, run the ceiling fans and sleep soooooo good! I love October.


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## HomeOnTheRange

farmerjan said:


> SO READY to retire.


Amen Sister!


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## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> Not here! I put the short pants away some time back.


 I put the short pants away maybe 30 years ago....haven't worn them since!


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## Latestarter

Never bothered to look at the outside temp when I went out for morning goat chores... would have been too late in any case as I try my damnedest to NOT get up before the sun, so goat chores go down between 8:30-9:00am.  No idea what time that's gonna become when we do the govt mandated time change (which IMHO outlived its usefulness sometime in the last century).

Oh, forgot to mention, while out doing goat chores yesterday late afternoon, Mel alerted to something down on the back pasture border and went charging up to the fence barking and growling. Well what do you know... there's a coyote about 10' out into the pasture just looking around & sizing things up. Moseyed on back to the house as slow and nonchalantly as I could, hoping to reach my weapon before he left. Of course, no such luck.    By the time I got to the house he was already gone. I don't make a habit of carrying my rifle down to the pen with me. Did tonight though. He didn't show himself. 

Al, 30 years is long enough to be trapped out in the cold (and prolonged periods of darkness)... I say it's time you got some shorts once again and moved back down here to TX where you belong. Just a thought


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## Pastor Dave

Mike CHS said:


> I wore long pants today for the first time since May.



I'll do chores in shorts, but baling hay has to be done in pants or overalls. No matter how hot, I can't do it in shorts.


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## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> Al, 30 years is long enough to be trapped out in the cold (and prolonged periods of darkness)... I say it's time you got some shorts once again and moved back down here to TX where you belong. Just a thought


gotta wait for spouse to die.....   

Don't worry, can't be much longer. ...wait!  I didn't say that..... need spouse to stay alive until the kids are out of college...or I at least get the first two years into them.  (spouse works at the local community college...so free tuition)


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## CntryBoy777

Is he from the land of the Midnight Sun? I met a few Inuit people back when I was Pow-Wowing.....


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

Latestarter said:


> Well, supposed to be 91 tomorrow, then high of 69 on Sunday with "a chance of rain" between there... That large a difference to me indicates a rather major front passing through which I always associate with rain and T-storms... Sure could use the rain.


We had rain starting yesterday and are supposed to have it daily for a week.  Our grass is bright green again.  That makes a great color background for our fall color change.


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

Pastor Dave said:


> Yah, this is flannel shirt weather. Next comes hoodie weather, then Carhart. Sometimes when it gets real cold,  it's hoodie under Carhart weather. Also prefer to go in order and not skip straight to Carhart or creep back to flannel shirt or T-shirt weather. Haha


LOL I love your way of defining the weather but type of clothing!  We typically only get a hand full of the most extreme here by your definition.  For me top end is thermals under hoodie under waterproof outer shell with lining zipped inside.


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

Pastor Dave said:


> That is a lot of obstacles to be sure. Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. I can't relate with the big predators. The biggest we have is coyotes. I guess I would be pretty uneasy with bear and mountain lions roaming around. Good luck with your ventures.


Coyotes are a problem in our area.  The county is trying to trim down a pack that at last count had 2 dozen members.  Hearing them call in the evening can be a little scary.


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## Latestarter

I don't mind hearing them call... Just not in my back woods. I prefer quite a bit of distance. And, although much more dangerous, I love the sound of wolves over coyotes as the latter is more of a cacophony of yelps, yips, and squeals. Nothing more primal (to me at least) than the sound of a wolf or wolves howling in the distance.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> (which IMHO outlived its usefulness sometime in the last century).


I agree. And it only got worse 2 presidents back when the "Saving" time was extended on both ends. I have no idea what it would take, shy of moving to a state that doesn't do DSL, to get it GONE!



farmerjan said:


> I would still make it.  She doesn't have to eat it and you would get some very good healthy stock for a  winter soup.  You do eat meat so a few containers in the freezer would provide for some other meals for you.  Not trying to be mean, but there is no reason why you can't have some even if she doesn't eat meat.


True, but I REALLY don't have a desire to make two pots of soup, one with meat stock and one without.


----------



## Bruce

Time to start carrying @Latestarter, don't need that coyote helping itself to your goats. And don't need Mel taking it and its pals on by himself.


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## Baymule

Where there's one, there's more! I like to hear coyotes howling, but not close by. We have a stray dog problem going on now. Trip is "marking" the front gate with poop piles. Plainly he is telling the strays to stay out. LOL


----------



## Latestarter

Woke to gray overcast and sprinkles to do morning goat chores in. Mostly clear blue right now. Had hoped for nice off and on rain all day to help soften the ground a bit. Really need the moisture but hope it doesn't all come in one fell swoop. Really liking the temperatures though.


----------



## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> No idea what time that's gonna become when we do the govt mandated time change (which IMHO outlived its usefulness sometime in the last century).



So you're one of those people. CA tried again to do away with DST and thankfully it failed. I like my long summer evenings and I like my winter mornings to be light before 8. I am really ok with changing the clocks.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Having animals and being retired it really doen't matter what the clock says....each day it is sun Up to sun Down and utilize the amount of daylight to get stuff done as the weather and body allows. I only pay attention to the clock when I have to be on another's schedule...like the Doc or business hours.
We are suppose to have a high of 60 this next week and rain all day on Sunday into Monday morning....


----------



## greybeard

The sun don't give a crap what time a clock or watch says and neither does work.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> The sun don't give a crap what time a clock or watch says and neither does work.


Um, DW's work does! She has to be at the PO at 7:45, window opens at 8. Not like back when she was an engineer at a large 3 letter company. Start/stop time unimportant unless someone scheduled an early or late meeting.



babsbag said:


> So you're one of those people. CA tried again to do away with DST and thankfully it failed. I like my long summer evenings and I like my winter mornings to be light before 8. I am really ok with changing the clocks.


If there were no DST, it would always be light before 8 anyway  Right now it starts to get light just before 7 here and dark not much past 6 PM. Then when the "shift" happens it screws everyone up. 

The best plan would be one time zone the world over set at the current 0 meridian - UTC, just set your "business hours" accordingly. London can start their work day at 0800, New York at 1300, Redding CA at 1600  And if you want to have longer "evenings", just shift your business hours rather than changing the clock. Everyone/business world wide could choose to do so, or not.


----------



## Latestarter

babsbag said:


> So you're one of those people. CA tried again to do away with DST and thankfully it failed. I like my long summer evenings and I like my winter mornings to be light before 8. I am really ok with changing the clocks.



Yup... I'm "one of those people"... As others have said; what the clock says has virtually no effect on you whatsoever... Unless you have an appointmetnof some sort, you don't punch a time clock so you can enjoy your evening (or morning or both) all year long, regardless of what time it is. For those who have to punch a time clock, aside from Alaska, every state in the US has at least ~9.5 hours of sunlight on the shortest day. Further south, even more. So businesses could adjust their hours for employees to have some light at night when they get home or during the morning before work on the shortest day of the year. If you live close to work, you could see the sun before and after work.

I don't agree with one time zone though, that would be a real nightmare. If you're in Vermont and want to do business in Hong Kong, you'd STILL need to be adding/subtracting hours (how? they no longer exist?) and days (International date line) to determine when you could contact them and not be waking them in the middle of the night. The time zones would still exist, just in a different (more confusing) fashion. The idea of time in and of itself only works with the idea that there are differences... if there are no differences in time, then there is no time.


----------



## babsbag

My big thing is the light at the end of the day. When I used to work a job there was no way I was going to garden, mow the lawn, go bike riding, baseball practice, Boy Scout meetings with outside activities, go swimming, do dog agility classes, etc. before work. It just wasn't going to happen and it won't happen for kids that have to go to school either. As far as businesses adjusting their schedules, that may work for some but not all. If retail were to change hours based on the sun I am not so sure it would work.  And I remember one winter in the 70's when we stayed on DST all winter, it was horrible; I was going to school in the dark every morning so that isn't a viable option either; IMO.  I am really ok with what we have now, but to each their own.  Arizona has no DST, makes me crazy when I need to do business there and they are different than the rest of the country.


----------



## farmerjan

I would like it to be REAL TIME, all the time, not switching.  Places could start earlier in the morning during summer months so employees could get home earlier, or do staggered shifts so there is someone always there during "normal work hours"  and some could get real early afternoons some days and others get out early on other days.  I spend all my DST hours trying to adjust.  I feel like I am always running late and I am trying to utilize the "longer daylight" so then I am getting into the house and bed very late.  After 60 + years, I still do not adjust to it.  My body runs on Standard time.....


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I don't agree with one time zone though, that would be a real nightmare. If you're in Vermont and want to do business in Hong Kong, you'd STILL need to be adding/subtracting hours (how? they no longer exist?) and days (International date line) to determine when you could contact them and not be waking them in the middle of the night.


But you DON'T have to do all that, though the day change thing would still hold.
Currently:
"Joe I'll call you at 11 AM". Your first question is "YOUR 11 AM or MY 11 AM?" If one's stated business hours are 1200 to 2000, they you know you can call then. Even if that is the middle of the night for you.

If you live near a time zone change and have reason to contact or go to the next one over, isn't that a PITA? You have to think about what time it is "there", what time does the store open?

I went to a Theatre on Ice competition near Dayton a few years ago. Went through O'Hare. It takes 2 hours to fly from Chicago to Dayton, but on the return trip you land at about the same time as you took off. My in-laws went on a trip to Europe in May, their flight back was 5 hours long according to the tracker. Um, right, a REALLY LONG 5 hours. Clearly the tracker was using arrival time to determine flight hours. Now THAT is confusing.


----------



## Latestarter

I like the 24 time zones that exist, and understand the date line. I'm quite alright with all that. I guess I just don't feel the need for govt mandated time changes simply because they've been doing it for so long. Sun up is sun up no matter what a clock says. Same for sun down. Changing folks lives by an hour twice a year is just silly (IMHO) and really no longer necessary since it isn't serving the purpose it was originally instituted for.


----------



## Latestarter

Now... as long as it doesn't die out, it appears I may be getting a really good bit of rain here in a couple of hours. Looks like @Baymule and @Devonviolet will benefit as well.


----------



## babsbag

I don't go to bed until "morning" most nights and the clock has little to do with that. I am night owl and that is probably why I like my long summer nights. I don't get up with the chickens, never have and probably never will so I don't stop working until the sun goes down.


----------



## Latestarter

Just a bit shy of 2 inches of rain. Really came down hard for a bit. Had some pretty serious lightning, thunder and wind as well when the main front moved through. Guessing that was about 3am. Much needed and grateful. Completely understand the night owl syndrome, suffer from it myself. Compounded by severe sleep apnea and difficulty sleeping in general.


----------



## greybeard

It came thru here as a wild wet front about an hour ago, not a lot of rain, but still raining some and thunder and lightening abound. 
Hope it clears out before our VFD appreciation BBQ/fund raiser that runs from 11am-2pm today. I'm going rain or shine. (it was 'kinda wet' the day they came out to get me back almost 2 months ago...I reckon I can return the favor in kind)


----------



## Redneck Hippy

Latestarter said:


> I like the 24 time zones that exist, and understand the date line. I'm quite alright with all that. I guess I just don't feel the need for govt mandated time changes simply because they've been doing it for so long. Sun up is sun up no matter what a clock says. Same for sun down. Changing folks lives by an hour twice a year is just silly (IMHO) and really no longer necessary since it isn't serving the purpose it was originally instituted for.



Totally agree. It's part of the reason I have always hated punching a clock, and why I'm working away from the rigid corporate world and back towards a more natural way of life. My body wakes up with the sun and goes down with the sun, regardless of what clocks and my brain try to tell it


----------



## babsbag

We got 1/2" here last week and probably won't see anymore until Nov. I'm okay with that...winter is coming soon enough.


----------



## Baymule

The storm woke us up at 3 AM with thunder, lightening, hard rain and hail. I need to get up on the roof and look around. We got 2 inches, we sure needed it, nothing here but dust and powdered sand.


----------



## farmerjan

We are supposed to get some rain/weather Monday aft/eve and into Tues a.m.  We had 1.6 inches 2 weeks ago,  after over 30 days of no rain, which is NOT NORMAL for us.  It helped the spring, plus we moved 7 heifers that I had been breeding AI,out of the place I was hauling water;  but then got back 6 heifers that are 18 months and will be bred starting next month;  and then no more rain so the spring is down again,  and I started hauling water yesterday, again.  Moving 3 cows and their bigger heifer calves out to a pasture that has a fair amount of grass still.  These cows were bred AI so they will be out with a bull for a month  for clean up in case they didn't catch.  Since this is the most convenient place for me to watch heats and to breed AI,  it is a pain when we get this dry weather and the spring slows down to next to nothing.

Hope we get the 1/2 to 2 possible inches they are forecasting.....then it is supposed to cool off to the 40's nights and 60's days.  It is almost November but I am not looking forward to winter much.
Never understood the whole "snowbird going south thing"  but I sure do now.  I couldn't take the heat during the summers, but am not as enamored of the cold winters here, anymore.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Completely understand the night owl syndrome, suffer from it myself.


Gee we couldn't tell by the time on many of your posts


----------



## Latestarter

So when I went to feed the goats at dusk, I noticed that CM was holding his front right leg up and would not put pressure on it to stand while eating. Wasn't it just the other day I said he is always getting into grief? When he moved he wouldn't put any weight on it and was limping. I finally got into head scratching range and grabbed his collar. He doesn't like it but once I get him he settles down. Anyway, somehow he stabbed the front of one hoof with a small stick or thorn, right above the top of the hoof. Just the smallest bit of it was sticking out and I was able to get hold of it and remove it. Left a hole about the size of the business end of a ballpoint pen. No idea where ot how he managed it.

So I let him go and came back to the house for a medical kit. Went back down and got hold of him and clipped him to the fence where I normally milk. Then I used my beard trimmer to trim the hair off his hoof up to the puncture hole. Blood was flowing, so I know I got all of the object out. Then doused it with Hydrogen peroxide, waited a bit, wiped it away and loaded it with triple antibiotic ointment. While I had him, I trimmed his hooves as well. They needed it. After eating a little he was walking much less tenderly. Figuring he'll be OK. Goats... seems they're always looking for ways to hurt themselves... 

So I went online to pay my DirecTV bill which is due tomorrow and they "ended the promotion" (after 1 yr when they promised me would be there for the entire 2 yr agreement) and raised my bill $50.   Needless to say, royally pissed. After a service rep,  his supervisor,  a transfer to customer loyalty  and another transfer to Legacy,  I finally got a credit to the bill back to close to what it was before this, (then paid it for this month to zero out the balance) and a second credit added for next month. I was told after that I should be able to call back and get new promotional offers (or additional credits). Why do companies pull this crap?   I mean it's just frustrating BS.  Grrrrrrrrrrrr.  The termination penalty would have been a little more than what I was about to be being billed for monthly.   So pay that once, or that for 12 more months... you decide.

Next I need to contact my internet provider (Exede). I'm paying almost $90+/mo for 12 gig speed and 15 meg of data/mo. Hughes net next gen is offering me 25 gig service and 20 meg a month for half that (~$45/mo). Depending on cost to cancel, if they can't come close to matching it, I may be getting a new internet provider as well. Worth it to pay a $200 cancellation fee to save $600 over the next year. Still works out to a $400 savings... and for faster/better/more service.

Road trip Thursday. Need some road time.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That is 1 reason I dropped Directv....another was...I wasn't going to keep paying for so many channels of reruns and crap shows....when I gave up sports, there wasn't any reason to keep it....it is even worse today.
Ya heading to any place imparticular or just going for a ride? Be careful....make sure All the lights are burning....and check those tires....


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Why do companies pull this crap?


Because they can. Lots of people don't pay attention to the fact they are being screwed and just pay. The only way to not get screwed is to pay attention and BITCH when they pull a fast one. No it should NOT be that way. If they said the introductory price was good for the 2 year contract, it should be.

Call Excede and tell them that you can get HughesNet for half price and faster service, more data. They may do something to keep your business. Of course, I ASSUME the HughesNet price is also a limited time, must contract offer just like your DirectTv.

Sure glad you noticed CM's problem so fast. No time to get real bad.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Ya heading to any place imparticular or just going for a ride?


He knows where you live


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so I was browsing and ran across this:  https://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/d/animal-immobilizer/6302604481.html
So after looking at the pictures, I'm going to ping @greybeard and @farmerjan or any other large animal owner... Have you any experience with this item?


----------



## Pastor Dave

Hmmm, interesting.


----------



## farmerjan

I'm with Pastor Dave .... interesting.  Have never seen it, have no experience with it. Would really like to see it work in the field so to speak.  Seems like it somehow immobilizes the nerves????  Since that guy says he is a distributor, may be interesting to see if they do any sort of demonstrations at a fair or something.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> OK, so I was browsing and ran across this:  https://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/d/animal-immobilizer/6302604481.html
> So after looking at the pictures, I'm going to ping @greybeard and @farmerjan or any other large animal owner... Have you any experience with this item?


I haven't used one but have seen a vet use one. They do work, tho many here at BYH would likely coil back in horror at 'how' they work. It is inserted in the rectum, and produces a low electric current in the nervous system and causes the major muscles to constrict, rendering the animal temporarily immobile. Been tested thoroughly and many producers safely use them, even on pregnant animals. If I have one that is that difficult to work, it can can just work it's cantankerous rear end up on a trailer and go to slaughter.  Having said that tho, I have no real opposition to their use..just don't have a need for it.

There is a similar device (electro-ejaculator) used in semen collection, and I have not seen it used but did read a detailed post by a bull owner that said he had a bull go thru a BSE where it was used and would never again put one of his bull's thru that.


----------



## farmerjan

The vet used the electro-ejaculator on our bull when he did a BSE exam and the bull barely twitched.  The vet said he did fantastic and we were very pleased by the results because we were afraid this bull would be no good after last years' disaster at the pasture where we lost 12 cows and he and 4 others survived but took a long time to recover from that supposed ABEE from the lush grass when we moved them in rotation.   So I was rather hesitant because I have heard that manual stimulation is better, but it was not a horror story for us or the bull.  He never bellowed, kicked, got mad, nothing,  and walked out of the chute in no big hurry when we were done.

Thanks @greybeard  for the info as I figured it was something like that.  I am in agreement that if I need to use one of them on an animal,  for the most part they can go somewhere else.  However, if an animal is in extreme pain, it might be the way to safely treat it in some circumstances, so I also don't have any real objection to it.  When we dehorn, a retired vet friend does nerve block for the pain, so that they don't feel it and he does a fantastic job.  It mostly only comes up with my dairy calves,  and using some semen from polled jersey bulls has also stopped some of that.  I think it is only fair to the animal to do a nerve block, it isn't that big a deal.  Since I cannot take the electric disbudding, makes me very sick to smell and listen to them, I would rather do the other.  Never used the paste.  Since most all out beef animals are bred to angus, naturally polled, we seldom get any calves with horns.  The half angus half dairy will carry the horned gene, but the polled is dominant, so only if I use another horned animal for breeding, I don't see the horns coming out.
Will be interesting to see what I get out of some of these cows I have bred to Aubrac.... they have horns and some of the cows & heifers I bred have some dairy in them.  Suspect I will see some horns.  Will preg check  later on and see if they settled, they are with the angus bulls for cleanup breeding now.


----------



## greybeard

I'm unsure if the immobiliser prevents the animal from feeling the pain..probably just prevents the animal from reacting TO the pain, but I could very well be wrong on that. I haven't had the desire or need to look in to them that much.

(I have heard lots of good things about Aubrachs Jan)


----------



## farmerjan

@greybeard, it is mostly thanks to you getting me on the CT forum, that I learned about and got in touch with Walnut Crest and wound up getting semen to try on the dairy cross cows.  Darrin was looking for a few sources to use them on to see if it added value to the resulting calves.  I was very impressed with his journey with Begonia, and the artificial foot and besides the amount of money, the disposition of the heifer/now cow  and how she has done.  I like the double muscling aspects and the docility of the breed that I have read about.  So I got semen, bred about 10 to a couple of the bulls, will see how many settled, and see what the calves turn out like next year.  May be a good thing, might flunk out.  Semen costs no more than any of the average angus etc.,  just the shipping, but it's an experiment.  I am hoping for the females to be superior so that they can be bred back angus, keep the polled part,  and have more body/butt.  Black is what sells here, and having jersey in them will bring out the brown probably, but if they have some real added "beefier" bodies, then the cross will make the jersey crosses worth more.  Anything with jersey in it shows the "finer bone structure"  and they get discounted terrible at the sale.   I like my milk cows,  and right now have 3 nurse cows that have calved in the last month.  The jersey has 2 calves, only has 2 good quarters this time, the old guernsey has 2 calves but she doesn't make alot of milk at her age but is a SUPER good nurse cow, and the 3/4 jer-1/4 holstein has 3 on her and is a good nurse cow too.  So we will see.  I am actually kinda excited and hope that most/all????  are settled AI.


----------



## AClark

Latestarter said:


> OK, so I was browsing and ran across this:  https://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/d/animal-immobilizer/6302604481.html
> So after looking at the pictures, I'm going to ping @greybeard and @farmerjan or any other large animal owner... Have you any experience with this item?



All this does is keep them from mowing you down while you do necessities. They still feel it, just can't do much if anything about it. Great for rowdy animals that you can't control or that are in a ton of pain and not controllable. Would I see a need for one? Not really, would probably never use it on a horse either though it says you can. Of course, we just tranquilize horses that are in the bat sh*t crazy mode and wait for them to fall over to work on them. I mean, if you can get them in a chute and stick something up their rear end, you can certainly pop a syringe full of Ace into their neck and wait 20 minutes - same effect. Not sure how well Ace works on cattle but works great on horses for that kind of thing.
We used to use a chute to halter break horses way back in the day. Had a mare that was reasonably gentle, but once that halter was on and a drag rope things got sketchy. She reared up and went over backwards and landed on my grandmothers legs. It shattered the leg that was on the bottom big time. We stopped "cowboying" them for that after that, though it takes a lot more time, it's worth it not to have shattered legs.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all for your input. I assumed it was electric and "stopped" nerves and froze muscles. Just wasn't sure and was hoping someone had actually seen it in use.

On another note entirely, had to close up the house last night for the temp. Ended up with a light frost this morning. Love this weather.

ETA: Just looked at the forecast and it's supposed to low 80's tomorrow then be down around freezing (34/33) on Friday and Saturday night... Might have to fire up the wood stove since Saturday's high is only upper 50s. Might get a bit chilly in here.


----------



## AClark

Same here for Friday, some cold front moving in. We are forecasted for 31 for the night temp and 52 for day time...I'm totally not into that at all!


----------



## Bruce

We aren't looking at frost the next few days, that is for you southern folk  Our low tonight is forecasted to be 45° (at 8 AM Thursday), high 49° at 2 PM. Those are numbers that say "time to start the woodstove up". Not tomorrow morning though, I have to leave at 7 for MA, 4 hour drive. Unless I happen to wake up early, I'll not have time to mess with starting a fire.


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## frustratedearthmother

We were 37 this morning.  Picture perfect day after it warmed up just a bit!


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## CntryBoy777

Projected hi tomorrow of 78 and 56 on Fri with chance of rain all day...lows Fri and Sat are 34 both days, temps rebound on Mon....guess I'll be lighting the pilots on Fri....


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Latestarter said:


> OK, so I was browsing and ran across this:


@Latestarter, thanks for posting the link.  I saw that as well and thought about posting to see if anyone had heard of its' use.


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## greybeard

Here's an older discussion on the immobiliser from another board I'm on:
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11625

(be aware, that board is mostly made up of 'seasoned' stockmen/stockwomen and the language and rhetoric can get 'colorful' at times...


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks. some of those comments were worth a chuckle.   Seems there's folks over there who get their knickers in a bind sometimes as well.


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## AClark

Hey someone hit the nail on the head for me, I was wondering the exact same thing...how do you stick that up a bulls rear end without them being in a head catch? Glad I got an answer. 

I wonder if my vet has one? Last time I had one of the horses there in the chute they just sedated her (floating teeth), and I doubt she even needed the sedation because she didn't seem phased in the least about having her mouth jacked open. 
Still not sure I'd use it on a horse though. Maybe for branding...maybe. 

Here's a question for the cattle folk, I saw in that thread they were talking about "nose tongs"...is that similar to a twitch? I've worked with cattle but never from that angle, I'm just the dummy they get to rope and drag them from the horse. I've done branding but only in a squeeze chute or tied down for calves.


----------



## greybeard

Don't know what a twitch is, but nose tongs are usually used at the head gate to hold the animals head up and keep it from thrashing around when you're puttin in ear tags, giving liquid medicines or dehorning.
They got all different kinds of them. Some have a chain, some a rope, some are spring latched. I prefer the rope thru the hole in one side. It provides a little bit of 'give' if the animal fights restraint. It's just a matter of choice tho. 
2 minute mark in this video:


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## AClark

This is a twitch, there are different varieties of them, some with ropes and chains. You stick this over the horses upper lip and it gives you control when doing the same kind of things, shots, teeth, hooves, etc. It gives them something else to think about, and they say it releases endorphines to twitch them. 

Thanks for the video, seems like it's the same principal, gives you some control and something else to think about for the animal.


----------



## Latestarter

OK then... moving on to some exciting news (for me and my girls anyway)... Just got back from SW TN and now have my registered, PB Lamancha herd sire 

When I put him in with the girls, he immediately went after Dot. She must be in heat right now because he went nuts over her. Too dark and too tired to know if he actually got her or not. I mean I had to pull him off her and lead hi to the water trough so he could get a drink. He drank quite a bit, and then went right back to it. Hope he chills a little later and has some food. I put out fresh alfalfa hay and pellets enough for all of them.


 
Here's a pic of his Dam:


 
And here's his sire:


 

I'll get some pics of him when it's light out.


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## babsbag

Congrats on owning a buck and I love his name. Didn't surprise me in the least to see a Kastdemur in his lineage, that herd name gets around...it is a CA breeder that used to live near me. They have some beautiful animals. 

On a side note... if you are leaving him with the girls full time watch that he doesn't run them. I know of someone who almost lost a doe when the buck ran her so much that her muscles started to break down from exertion. I have had some bucks I can leave with the does, others I have to separate.


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## greybeard

congrats on your herd sire. 
wait...you went somewhere..all the way to Tn..and back, and didn't run off the road, or lose an animal, or your cargo, or break a window, or have a blowout, or get pulled over by the popo?
Isn't this one of the signs the apocalypse is upon us?


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## CntryBoy777

greybeard said:


> congrats on your herd sire.
> wait...you went somewhere..all the way to Tn..and back, and didn't run off the road, or lose an animal, or your cargo, or break a window, or have a blowout, or get pulled over by the popo?
> Isn't this one of the signs the apocalypse is upon us?


 ....Congratulations Joe!!....hope he does ya proud...waiting on pics for sure....


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## AClark

I have to second Greybeard...you went on a trip and there was no "adventure" to it? How does one go about that?
We went to the city last week to help a friend pick up a car that was supposed to run good. Find out the carb is so in need of a rebuild and has rust in it that it wouldn't run under stress and couldn't drive up on the trailer...hours later, a 1 hour trip turned into all day. I'm used to it, as I'm sure you are, and it doesn't upset me anymore. 

Can't wait to see pics of him! I may be starting to shop for a Nubian herd sire, I'm not sure our pygmy buck is tall enough to get the job done as he's been with the Nubian girls and they just came back in heat again. If they come back in heat in 3 weeks I'll be getting another larger buck.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

AClark said:


> I'm not sure our pygmy buck is tall enough to get the job done


When I first started breeding Kinders I had that problem too.  I had a ramp laying around that I put a couple of cement blocks on and would back the does up to there.  I've used hay bales, depressions in the ground, low boy trailer, etc...    Sometimes they just need a little boost.


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## Bruce

No adventure and no stop to visit with @CntryBoy777 ??? SW TN is darn close to NW MS!!


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## CntryBoy777

Seeing as how it had to be a 12-14 hr roundtrip road excursion, another 2-3hr detour wouldn't be hardly worth a handshake....and then another to hit the road with....I'm just glad he made it there and back Safely....I owe him a Visit anyway...and ya never know when I may show up....


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## greybeard

Maybe there's a "rest of the story" to this trip.....


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## AClark

He needs the boost frustrated, but he also looks at me sketchy if I back the girls up where he can get it done, kind of like I shouldn't be there. I figured maybe he had a shot at it when they are laying down but maybe not.


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## frustratedearthmother

My buck wasn't happy about my presence at first...once he figured out that he had a guaranteed shot at 'em if I was holding the gals - he got over his shy streak, lol!


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## AClark

LOL maybe I just need to keep trying and he'll figure out I'm there to help his smelly little @$$.


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## AClark

Not to derail Late's journal, but how big is your buck? Mine is really small, I expected a bit more size on him but he's tiny.


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## greybeard

Bulls are different. There ain't a shy bone about 'em..
(no pun intended)


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## frustratedearthmother

I've used several Pygmy bucks over the last few years ...first one was probably over 22 inches....second one was smaller.   I have a little guy running the pasture with all the does right now (long story).  He's about 9 months old and probably isn't even 15 inches tall.  Not sure we'll have any new Kinders next spring, lol!


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## AClark

Ah yeah I think he's probably 18 inches, if that. he's about the size of my cattle dog.

Horses aren't shy either, if it's in heat, they're after it regardless of where you're at.


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Maybe there's a "rest of the story" to this trip.....


I think this IS the rest of the story! @Latestarter had said it was time for a trip but didn't give any details.



frustratedearthmother said:


> My buck wasn't happy about my presence at first...once he figured out that he had a guaranteed shot at 'em if I was holding the gals - he got over his shy streak, lol!


Does a line from the movie "Being There" come into play here? 



greybeard said:


> Bulls are different. There ain't a shy bone about 'em..
> (no pun intended)


Um, right. Sure, we'll buy that.


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## Latestarter

Babs, when I learned that Kastdemur was in his lineage, that's what made me make the trip to get him. I'm familiar with that name and their history/reputation.

The disbud went horrible on him so he has scurs, one that's like a crippled horn and the other is like a busted brick/block. Neither is sharp, but they're there. I wasn't thrilled with it but he's very gentle, friendly, and I wanted him for his genetics. The scurs don't get passed on.

He tagged April this morning and she initially ran, but then stood and wagged her tail at him. He went after Dot immediately after entering the pen last night. That was a chase for a good 15 minutes. Had the whole lot of them in an uproar until things settled back down. After a 6+hour trip he didn't even want food or water... I had to grab him by the collar to get him off Dot's a$$ and led him to the water where he came to his senses and stopped to take several long drinks. She has since stood for him as well. He's still young (born 3/2017) and a little short yet, so I don't know if he's reached them. I guess I'll know in a few weeks if they come back into heat. Most of the day he's been laying down along with the rest, no chasing, no issues.

Yeah Fred, sorry man, I seriously wanted to call you and stop by, but couldn't figure a realistic way to make it happen with the drive time already involved. I will get back out your way again though at some point. 

Yup GB, though I share all my bad stuff here, accidents, broken things, lost things, etc. that isn't my entire life... just the majority of it.   I do sometimes have completely uneventful adventures.   OK, on a side note to that, I now am familiar with "rutting buck smell" and though it's not my idea of sweet perfume, the does seem to like it just fine. I don't find it completely awful, though he is still very young and it might become much worse as he matures. All that said, I'm not really fond of him coming up and rubbing his perfumed face all over my pants leg  Though I'll consider wearing said pants out to a local eatery and see if anyone notices 

Bruce wins a cigar! this was the "rest of the story"...


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## Goat Whisperer

Congratulations on the new buck!

My new Lamancha buck was born mid April 
He successfully bred 3 does in about 20 minutes, and then had another the following morning. He is definitely able!


----------



## Latestarter

Thing is, I'm not in a position, nor intend to get in one... to actually see if there's "penetration" and they're dancing around, and if I approach, they dance away. So these tired old eyes can only see what they think they see. It's not like a dog... they don't get "locked up", and it doesn't last long time wise either... but he mounts repeatedly over a period of several minutes. I'd have to guess that he's been successful at least once out of the many attempts...   time will tell.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, it has gotten decidedly gray here. Pretty windy, and the temp has dropped about 25 degrees from where it was this morning. Sitting at 45 right now and supposed to be ~30 tonight. My daughter in Maine will be warmer than I am tonight. fired up the heat pump for a bit to knock off the chill. Just checked the radar and looks like Fred is getting some decent rain now and Mike should be getting it after a bit. Glad I got the drive done yesterday vice today. Seems the front line didn't really develop till east of me. I have a weaker line approaching/passing now that may or may not provide any moisture. Even with the 2" we got from that last front, we're still pretty dry... could have used some more rain.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> The disbud went horrible on him so he has scurs, one that's like a crippled horn and the other is like a busted brick/block. Neither is sharp, but they're there. The scurs don't get passed on.


This part, I don't quite understand. 
Are you saying that the offspring will be hornless or full horned (unless disbudded)?
Disbudding, (like dehorning cattle) whether 100% perfect or not so perfect doesn't affect genetics..it only affects phenotype and only that of the animal being altered.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

The way I read it, is that LS feels that the genetics are worth the scurs. Scurs aren't passed on, but the genetics are.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

LS- I don't know if you saw my boy, but a few days after we got him we had to remove the scurs (did the removal with our vet). You could always do this if the scurs present an issue.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I was thinking there was a promise of Pics....hmmmm... ......will it be, could it be a new Texas Avatar?....


----------



## Baymule

Congrats on the new buck! Sure would be nice to see a picture of him! Glad you were able to get there and back safely with no extra adventures. Going to be cold here tonight. I'm so glad summer is gone until next year!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> but he mounts repeatedly over a period of several minutes


It's not the mounting and the movements that do the deed....it's the head thrown back, falling off and lighting up a cigarette afterwards that counts!     And the doe should hunker up and you'll probably be able to see some of the 'evidence' on her.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I had to grab him by the collar to get him off Dot's a$$


That might be why everyone was in an uproar! Maybe he needs a slideshow presentation of what he SHOULD be doing 



Latestarter said:


> My daughter in Maine will be warmer than I am tonight.


Yeah well, just you wait, we are supposed to get a potential torrential rain Sunday and Monday. Of course no matter how "bad" it is, it will pale compared to all the hurricanes.


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## babsbag

like @frustratedearthmother said, you don't have to see the "deed". The buck will thrust, fall back and off. The doe will hunch her back and tuck her tail like she is sucking it all in, once you see it it becomes obvious when "contact" has been made.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks, that's the info I needed. When I see him fall over and then they both light up, I'll know all is well.  Pics will follow. Gonna take a day or two as right now they barely stand still when I go anywhere near them.


----------



## babsbag

I spent a good hour today chasing a doe in heat trying to catch Jumanji who was hot on her tail. I know if I had let her in with my older buck she would have been bred in a red hot second. If she is still being a brat tomorrow I will put her in with the older boys and whoever gets her gets her. Her choices are Alpine, LM, Nigi, Mini Alpine, or Nigi #2. Or all 5, I really don't care. Just DO IT.


----------



## babsbag

If he is shorter than the does you may need to catch the doe and stand her down hill or in a hole or him on a pallet. Sometimes they only need an inch or two to make a difference.


----------



## Latestarter

So I broke out the camera... Here's the little stud: Royal Jewels or RJ



 


 
He seems to be pretty well "hung"... I expect/hope he'll work just fine.


 
And some of the others for your viewing pleasure: Dot



Bang and her wether son CM (Chocolate Mousse <moose>):


 
Dot's daughter CC (Capn' Crunch) 


 
Bangs daughter CB (Creme Brulee):


----------



## Mike CHS

They are pretty.


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## CntryBoy777

RJ is really nice looking and should do ya proud....your whole gang is looking really Good....sure glad things are going so well for ya....and looky there....Mel finally made it to Texas!!....


----------



## Hens and Roos

very nice looking.  so will you be keeping CM as RJ's buddy?


----------



## TAH

Congrats on the buck! He's handsome.

Oh, my gosh, it is colder in Texas than in Alaska where we are!  I just went outside and it is 45.... But we did already get snow (melted now).

Btw- go ahead and put CB in a box as she has a very long trip to make.... She's coming to me.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all, Yes H&R, I kept CM specifically to be RJ's pen buddy.  @TAH  <--- CB isn't going ANYwhere! She's such a friendly little girl and I expect some really nice kids out of her when the time comes. But I completely agree with your   Actually, her and CC both are really friendly goats, more like puppy dogs.


----------



## TAH

Latestarter said:


> Thanks all, Yes H&R, I kept CM specifically to be RJ's pen buddy.  @TAH  <--- CB isn't going ANYwhere! She's such a friendly little girl and I expect some really nice kids out of her when the time comes. But I completely agree with your   Actually, her and CC both are really friendly goats, more like puppy dogs.


LOL, they are so cute..... I bet they will. Especially with that buck you got there.


----------



## greybeard

TAH said:


> Congrats on the buck! He's handsome.
> 
> Oh, my gosh, it is colder in Texas than in Alaska where we are!  I just went outside and it is 45.... But we did already get snow (melted now).


40 miles North of Houston...
Pretty nippy this morning and most of the night after the clouds left. 34 when I got up and the wind has been steady out of the N about 10mph gusts to 15. 
The sun feels good, but no clouds means it going to make it cooler tonight


----------



## Baymule

My volunteer squash plants bit the dust last night, I picked what I could yesterday. Think I'll make some zucchini (cross bred-yellow spotted) bread.

I like the name Crème Brulee......I like Crème Brulee, it's delicious. You have the goat cream, now you need chickens and you'll be making Crème Brulee!


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## farmerjan

We got a good frost Thursday night, down to 32 and white in the morning.  Had 2 light frosts before that but not much damage.  This one got anything tender although the grass still looks pretty good.  Was in the upper 60's today, some clouds late and now finally getting some rain.  It looks to be staying more west of us though, sure wish it would wander about 50 miles to the east as it heads north so we get a good soaking.  We are forecast for about an inch but unless it heads a bit east, we may not get as much as we want.  It is pretty dry for this time of year, we usually get more rain in Sept and we didn't get any of it.  The spring is running a bit since we got that 8/10ths on Monday night,  but we really need a good 24 hour soaking rain to get things in better shape.  Guess I should be quiet though, they are planning to come and chop the grain sorghum and put it in a silo bag on tuesday, so better that it isn't too wet.  Then it can rain for a couple of days.  Will take the better part of the day to do 10+ acres and get it bagged.  That's like money in the bank for winter feed though.


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## babsbag

Nice looking buck, hope he serves you well.


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## Latestarter

So I relearned the hard way that it's not a good idea to fire up a wood stove after the outside temp is already below freezing. Soon as I opened the door, I could feel the cold air rushing out as it came screaming down the chimney into the wood stove. I figured if I could get it burning good fast enough I'd be OK... nope, smoke rolling out so had to close the doors which smothered the fire which led to more smoke... So finally said to heck with it and opened the door to allow the fire to really light, then closed it back down. So wood stove going and windows and doors opened to let in that fresh cold air.    Still smells like smoke in here, several hours later.


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## Baymule

Was it real windy too? Nothing like the house smelling like a campfire. Break out the marshmallows!


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## TAH

Latestarter said:


> So I relearned the hard way that it's not a good idea to fire up a wood stove after the outside temp is already below freezing. Soon as I opened the door, I could feel the cold air rushing out as it came screaming down the chimney into the wood stove. I figured if I could get it burning good fast enough I'd be OK... nope, smoke rolling out so had to close the doors which smothered the fire which led to more smoke... So finally said to heck with it and opened the door to allow the fire to really light, then closed it back down. So wood stove going and windows and doors opened to let in that fresh cold air.    Still smells like smoke in here, several hours later.


My dad does this all the time.... Except I wish he would learn his lesson. 

Except I still remember when us kids were little my older sister was watching us while mom and dad ran to the bank.... Anyway it was cold and we didn't know how to. Start a fire so we got a ton of candle and made hotchocolate..... Along with roasting marshmallows about the candles... You could imagine dad's face when he got home.


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## Mini Horses

Love your goats.  The buck is nice looking, conformation wise.  I'm confident he's gotten the job done -- they normally find a way & he's pretty tall, it appears. Congrats!!

I recently began milking a doe since her 7 month doe needs to/has slowed down nursing ..Now I have lovely milk again, sure tastes good!     Time for me to let the buck in with the girls but, just have not.  Didn't want Jan kids this year.  Won't have them now....   Of course, it will impact sales of bucklings due to seasonal holiday times when they sell best.  Oh, well.

See you changed your avatar.  Nice!

AC...wish you lived close, I'd loan you my Nubian buck!!


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> So I relearned the hard way that it's not a good idea to fire up a wood stove after the outside temp is already below freezing. Soon as I opened the door, I could feel the cold air rushing out as it came screaming down the chimney into the wood stove. I figured if I could get it burning good fast enough I'd be OK... nope, smoke rolling out so had to close the doors which smothered the fire which led to more smoke... So finally said to heck with it and opened the door to allow the fire to really light, then closed it back down. So wood stove going and windows and doors opened to let in that fresh cold air.    Still smells like smoke in here, several hours later.


Curious. I've never had that happen. Maybe I never wait until it is that cold? Not sure. I always light from the small door on the side, rather than the big one in front. The smoke goes toward the front then up over a baffle to the chimney. When I light it I have to remember to have the air intake (which is in the bottom middle front of the stove) closed or there is a "fight" between the two air sources and I can get smoke out the door. After it gets burning some, I open the air intake all the way and close the door.

Just a curiosity, the top of your chimney IS 2' higher than anything within 5' right?


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## High Desert Cowboy

We used to have a similar problem when lighting our stove.  It has something to do with differing air pressures and the cold air doesn’t allow the smoke to rise up the chimney.  Ive found the best way is to go slow, start a smaller fire with the door open and allow this to heat the box and pipe up a little before building it up to its intended size and then closing the stove.  It does feel silly to have a nice fire roaring with all the windows open to let all that smoke out.


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## greybeard

High Desert Cowboy said:


> It has something to do with differing air pressures and the cold air doesn’t allow the smoke to rise up the chimney.



Density. Cold air is more dense than warm or hot air. Colder molecules always pack closer together, making every cu ft of cold air heavier than equal volume of warm air, especially if the warm air is dry. Hot air can/will only rise if the column of air above it is not heavier than the hot air.


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## Bruce

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Ive found the best way is to go slow, start a smaller fire with the door open and allow this to heat the box and pipe up a little before building it up to its intended size and then closing the stove.


Oh, I ASSUMED this was a given! Shy a natural gas "flamethrower" (as some fireplaces have) I can't imagine how one could start a "full log" fire without starting small and working up regardless of the air temperature differential.


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## goatgurl

was wandering around the forum and saw your new boy.  congratulations, I hope he does a good job for you.  and you're right he does have some nasty scurs/horn.  looks like a vet will have take care of those for you.  glad your trip went well.


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## Latestarter

So here's my LGD doing what he does best... at least during the day. Couldn't move to get a pic looking down as it would have woken him up and he would have rolled over. Just heard him sound off out back


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## Mike CHS

That is another picture that needs to be framed.


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## CntryBoy777

I think he is showing ya how ya look stretched out in the recliner....


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## Mike CHS




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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> So I broke out the camera... Here's the little stud: Royal Jewels or RJ


We've been busy, so I haven't had a lot of time online, and I just found this.  RJ is a good looking boy!  That's too bad about the scurs.


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## High Desert Cowboy

Bruce said:


> Oh, I ASSUMED this was a given! Shy a natural gas "flamethrower" (as some fireplaces have) I can't imagine how one could start a "full log" fire without starting small and working up regardless of the air temperature differential.



The real key there was to slowly heat the box and pipe.  This prevents from smothering and then smoldering which is really what causes most of that smoke that billows back into the house.  Where he’d said that he’d hoped if he got it burning fast enough he’d be ok I assumed there wasn’t enough time to heat the box and pipe but you close it anyway hoping it’ll heat fast then it dies and smolders and it’s easier for the smoke to leak out the door than to go up the pipe and then your house is full of smoke.  I would hope a small fire was a given.  Back in high school we were out deer hunting and had rigged up a wood stove in the horse trailer to keep warm during the night.  It got to snowing a lot (froze the action on my rifle) so clearly we wanted a fire fast and I in my teenage moment of genius decided to use some gas to get that thing going.  Cue small explosion from the front of the stove and me singeing all the hair on the right side of my body and my bedroll on fire.  After that I decided Id rather be cold for a few minutes longer Instead of trying to explain to everyone why I buzzed my head and my right arm was hairless.

That hard working dog of yours looks like he’s reached a point of ultimate relaxation that can only come from a satisfying hard days work.


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## Mini Horses

Seems Mel has "bonded" with that floor quite well!!    Now, put that type floor in the goat shed and take him there.    He sure is handsome.


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## Bruce

Nice that you lived to tell the tale @High Desert Cowboy !!



Mini Horses said:


> Seems Mel has "bonded" with that floor quite well!!    Now, put that type floor in the goat shed and take him there.    He sure is handsome.


A dog has to rest up for when he is needed out with the herd!


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## Latestarter

So my doc appt today was with the endocrine folks and they are quite OK with my labs/levels & bodily functions at the moment. As a result, my CT scan scheduled for the 28th will no longer require contrast (as ordered by my primary care doc <PCD>) and since they are the specialists in this particular area, I have to guess their call over-rides my PCD. So, no radioactive isotope/dye injections required  Still gonna have to get basically naked and lie down on that ice cold table though so they can squeeze me into that giant magnetic donut machine. I believe my PCD set up an appt with him for later the same day, so pretty sure that's gonna be a full day over in Shreveport.

So I stopped into another large animal vet's office (next county over) on the way home (different one from the first one I used here, who I'm pretty sure isn't as knowledgeable about goats as they wanted me to believe). The vet was out in the large animal barn working with a cow client at the time so I was talking to the vet tech/desk gal in the main office. She assured me that the vet was familiar with goats though it wasn't like a specialty of his or anything. So I asked about getting multimin shots for the goats as they need a scrip and Bang & Dot are starting to look a little thinner than I want/like. I also asked about their recommended worming protocol. They said I have to worm monthly.  That basically set off alarm bells in my mind and I left after that portion of the discussion. I don't think that's the right vet for me.

I explained that I had dairy goats and asked what they used and told her the last vet had me give them a shot with a cattle wormer that specifically stated was not for use with dairy animals... She said they used valbazen. Of course with that, ---> "Valbazen Suspension (11.36 % or 113.6 mg/ml): _Do NOT use in pregnant does in the first trimester of pregnancy._" and I just brought home my new herdsire to start breeding them   So hopefully I have several does in their first trimester...


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## Mike CHS

I like our farm vet but he recommended monthly worming also.  We didn't argue the point and and didn't do that but we like him otherwise.


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## Mini Horses

Food for thought ---

I have used herbal dewormers with good success while milking.  I supplemented this with Ivermectrin & Equimax when dried up, generally just after I stop milking & again just shortly before kidding.   The product is safe with pregnancy and lactation, per label.  After many years of use in both mares and goat does, never an issue.  The herbal I get from Hoegger.   The animals  also free range.   So, lids and fecals have been good.   You may never be 100% free, depending on conditions but, mine have been in good shape for many years.   Another thing, I use horse feeds for the goats and it has much higher copper.   Alternatives.

You know, it's about being reasonable & healthy.   Can't always be "perfect".    I've raised a lot of horses and goats.  Most have died of OLD AGE.  

Glad your OWN labs went well


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## CntryBoy777

That is really good on the report Joe, it has to make ya feel a bit better about things, especially not having to have the dye shoved into ya....hope it turns out well, too....


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## Baymule

Sounds like a fun day at the Dr office......NOT! But i'm glad that the tests went well for you. Vet shopping.....something you _can't _do on Amazon!


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## Devonviolet

I know I have mentioned this before, but given your experience with closer Vets, you might want to consider our Vet:

Cypress Springs Animal Clinic
Dr. Matte Gerdes
Hwy 115
Mt. Vernon, TX 75457
(903) 860-7387

He owns Spanish/Boer cross meat goats, so probably understands goats better than most Vets.


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## Latestarter

Thank you @Devonviolet I'll have to check him out.


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## babsbag

Is there a reason you don't use Ivermectin for worming? Yeah, there is a withdrawal on the milk unless you want to be wormed, but I honestly never worried about it when I was the one drinking it. Some people say it doesn't work, but you won't know if you don't use it. 

The mulit-min may cause injection site abscesses. If you are really good with your IM technique it may not, but just be warned.


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## Latestarter

I was under the impression that the Ivermectin was no longer viable as a wormer as it has decreased efficacy in goats...  Also, when I looked at the dosing amounts it seemed like a lot to give orally without it spilling out of their mouths and being wasted. 30 cc's is quite a lot IMO...


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## Devonviolet

30ml (of Ivermectin) is for a 125 lb goat. Are you sure your girls weigh that much?  Since your girls and our girls come from @goatgurl, the should be similar size, right?  When we weighed our two in May (on our Vet Scale), Ruby was 105 lbs and Falina was 100 lbs.  They are in good condition. You said Bang & Dot are on the thin side. So, I would think they would weigh less than Ruby & Falina.


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## Goat Whisperer

We use safeguard and ivermectin here. Both work.
That's why doing the EPG's is important. You can see if the de-wormers are working.
Its understanding the efficacy of the dewormer. It is also understanding the particular wormer you are using. Knowing the type of parasite you are dealing with is critical. I think SBC has posting about this several times. 

If you have liverflukes then Ivermectin won't touch it.  

No sense in pulling out the "big guns" if they are not needed. 
Safeguard is still my favorite. It has to be given at the right dosage for 3-5 days. 
Works great.

For the ivermectin we use the 1% cattle dewormer (injectable) but give orally per out vets recommendation.  

I would think the does are over 100#
Our smallest lamancha is over 120# scale weight.

Investing in a good scale is well worth the $.

Most of the people who say XYZ dewormer does not work are usually giving the meds willy nilly, are not dosing correctly, do not use the proper de-womer, do not know what parasite they are treating for, do not properly weigh the animals, and sometimes the animals do not have parasites at all and they are rather dealing with things like cocci or severe mineral deficiencies or just are not feeding the animals enough. Not saying this is happening in your situation, but I have personally seen this on other farms.
I know folks who always said safeguard is safe for the goat, and safe for the worm. Once they started using is correctly they changed their mind and realized it did work. 

A few year ago I was called out to a farm because there was suspect herd management issues. The goats were very thin and tiny. Fecals were run on all the goats and kids, and surprisingly the results were pretty good, the goats were just not getting enough nutrition. 

Another farm I visited years ago was having bad parasite issues. They couldn't understand it. I personally showed them how to run the fecals and identify the eggs. The wormers were not working because they were essentially using a half dose. Years later they are still battling parasites badly and won't get their own scope and would rather just guess. Money was *not* an issue in this situation. 

Sorry for the long post, just giving some food for thought.


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## babsbag

THAT IS SHEEP DRENCH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  We don't use sheep drench. We use injectable given orally 1 cc/ 40 lbs. repeated in 14 days if needed.  I'm not giving 30 cc of anything orally  unless it is life or death.  

While I don't have to worm my does and I have friends here that do and they use Ivermectin. I think that part of the problem is not getting the dose right due to not knowing their weight.


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## Alaskan

my local vet said the ivermectin still worked well up here.  He said I was to give it as an injection,  and gave me the doses for my does.

I think talking to a GOOD and knowledgeable local vet is probably the best option.  Different areas vary so widely in regards to worms and resistance.


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## Mini Horses

OK -- you are really into changing your avatar now!    

Ivermectrin has a pretty "safe" overdose level.   As my vet says about dosage, we want to kill the worms not just stun them for a day.   Many do not use enough, rven if it is what they should use.  Product would work if they did. 

My buck loves the stuff.  He'll lick the tube for more    But then, he IS a stinky buck!!


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## Goat Whisperer

@Mini Horses that is too funny, some of mine do the same! 

Right now I am worming my lamancha buck, a coming two year old. 
He hates being wormed, I have to put my overalls on, jacket, and gloves. Run up and push him into the fence- all my weight against him, grabbing his face with on hand and drenching with the other. I love it when they make it easy for us!


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## Alaskan

we give copper pills in a small piece of hollowed out carrot.  Paste selenium etc. go into peanut butter sandwich quarters


so.... easy.


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## Latestarter

I tried banana chunks today without anything in them. The only goat that ate one is the fattest one. The others all turned up there noses. So much as others have written about how well that works, not so much here. Maybe I'll try peanut butter tomorrow. Wish there was a way to conceal the stuff in animal crackers or froot loops, they love those.


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## Alaskan

froot loops would hold paste


paste in fruit loops would hold a pill


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## Latestarter

Haven't received the paste yet... just ordered it so wasn't sure of consistency... I also bought a plastic balling gun, so I can do the boluses the old fashioned way if it comes down to it. The copper boluses have already arrived. Just waiting on better weather over the coming days to do them. Debating on a cup of molasses to dip the end in to hold the bolus from falling out, or peanut butter. I guess I better get them addicted to peanut butter first huh?


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## Hens and Roos

We had picked up a plastic balling gun but found it didn't hold the pill well enough, let me know how the one you picked up works.  For now DH just gives the pills when needed.


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## Mini Horses

Mine love bread!!    You can squeeze bread around a pill.   Cinnamon/raisin is quite popular   and they beg for more.  In fact, I have to be careful with it as they will crowd & stand up on the fence, with tongues wagging for it.      With only a few you can be fast enough to give each one....here, wow!  some would get several before others got one.    It's like the fence gate from Goat Whisperer's beet pulp begging.  

AND -- another pic in avatar?!


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## greybeard

Cut a slot in a marshmallow or in part of a marshmallow and put the pill in the slot.
Believe it or not, some animals don't like molasses by itself. Tried it with some calves and a dog several times and they just spat it out.


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## Goat Whisperer

What type of bolus gun did you get?
We used one for the first time this year. LOVE IT! 
For us, it worked so much better than trying to hide it in food/treats. Our goats can by picky, and if they think something is up, they won't eat it 

Just a tiny drop of peanut butter keeps the bolus in place, and its such a small amount the goats don't get any/get it stuck in their mouth.


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## animalmom

I've used a raisin in the bolus gun to hold the copper capsule.  It worked reasonably well, but I haven't found an easy way for one person to bolus a goat.


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## Latestarter

Thanks GW, the balling gun (really just a hollow plastic tube, hardly a "gun") I got is the small sized blue as opposed to a large(r) red one. I didn't see a brown one, not that color really matters. Geeze, with all those blood tubes and syringes in that pic, looks like you're running a hospital lab...



What size bolus is that in the pic? I bought 100/4 gram boluses and in actuality, I can probably fit 2 of them back to back in the gun. Price per gram, it worked out cheaper than buying the cattle sized ones, even more so as I'd have had to break each one down and buy new smaller capsules (or feed the rods free in something else) and just the extra work involved. Figured it would be far easier with the smaller capsules & I can always give them more frequently if needed. I could put 2 in the gun for the big ladies, and only one for the youngsters (over 50lbs). For all that I've read, OD'ing on copper is really not an issue with goats.

H&R, how does your DH manage to get them far enough into the back of the throat so they can't spit them out, while NOT getting his fingers munched by those very strong/sharp molars they have back there? My buck is still young and small, but pretty strong, and his mouth doesn't open very far... I have fat hands/fingers (& body).

@animalmom, I've given them raisins before and though they all crowd to get a bite, as soon as they've had one, they back away and aren't interested. Now when I offer them, they sniff, turn their noses up, give me stink eye cause they want their froot loops, and walk away...   As for bolusing them by myself, I really don't have a choice, all I got is me. I'll figure something out. May turn out to be a great adventure for me and the goats. 

I was also concerned about peanut butter clogging up their throats... I have given it on bread to my dogs on rare occasions... I leave the PB exposed and of course the whole thing sticks to the roof of their mouth and they get a week's worth of tongue exercise trying to finish it. Funny to watch, a treat for them.

Also bought a tube of vitamin E and selenium paste. According to the USGS there's no selenium in this county (it's white as opposed to any shade of blue). I imagine that has some bearing on the goats being thin. I have done some reading and also bought https://www.jefferspet.com/products/replamin-gel-plus-300cc?sku=VPAC   as it has some copper & does have cobalt which I believe @Ferguson K determine was an issue with her goats. The reviews were all positive or neutral that I found. Didn't find any negative reviews of the product. I know that selenium can be toxic and the level is very low tolerance not to exceed, so I won't be using both simultaneously.

They get 16% pellets twice a day, basically all they can eat, high quality alfalfa 24/7 (I over the amount wasted), as well as the regular forage and grasses/weeds and poor quality hay. When this (alfalfa) hay is gone, I may try a bag of alfalfa cubes and see if it's more cost efficient/effective. Even if more expensive per bag ($12 a small bale for the A hay), if there's less waste it may be far better. The last A-hay I got was very stemmy & dry and my gals don't really care for the stems. This batch is very leafy, and as soon as they start digging in it's like raining green leaf flakes... like emptying a large container of parsley every bite... So I end up with a pile of leaf flakes as well as stems under the feeder.

The woman I bought RJ (the new buck) from recommended Chafhay but having read the problems folks on here have had with it, I just don't need the hassles. She sent 2 flakes of her hay home with me and the buck, as well as a grocery bag filled with the feed/pellets they were feeding him. The hay they sent, when I looked closely at it, wasn't even hay... it was woody weeds and sticks for the most part. He chose what I feed over what they gave me when presented with the choice.


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## Goat Whisperer

Lol the tubes and syringes were for the CAE, CL, & Johne's testing. Figured if were were bringing all the goats up one by one for bolusing, FAMACHA, etc. may as well pull some blood too. 

That's a 4 gram capsule in the pic. Are you giving the does 8 grams each? How are they eating their mineral? Ours are brats and don't really eat the mineral. 
I have heard really good things about the gel you ordered. I haven't used it, but I know others that are really happy with it. I thought about giving some to my bucks who are rutting very hard. Keep us posted if you give it! 

Copper can be difficult. I know lately the interwebs has been saying that it's extremely difficult to OD with the copper… 
I know a breeder up in VA that have the bolus 2x year/whenever the goats looked like they needed it. She lost 12 of her top does to copper toxicity (confirmed by a necropsy). So I think their still is a risk when you give high doses.


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## Latestarter

Looking closely at Bang, who is supposed to be either very dark brown or black, she is red highlighted throughout, so I'm pretty sure she's copper deficient. I have tried 2 types of minerals. A couple of them will eat it, but most don't/won't. They do rather enjoy dumping over the bucket/bowl however so it's going into the soil every time it rains. So I guess the good is, eventually they'll get some benefit when they eat the grass in that area.

I'm going to start with just the 4 gram boluses for all, and then when I get the paste in, I plan to give that once a week over a 4-6 week period for the adults, and probably every other week for the young ones. I'll see how that works for them. Once they're back in tip top shape, I'll stop until it looks like they need it again. I really do NOT want to OD them on anything... But want to make sure they ARE getting what they need. I also understand none of this is a quick fix, and it will take a little time for the results to really show or be noticeable.

OK, so the ground has dried out a little from yesterdays all day rain. I took some bread out of the freezer to thaw (I rarely use it, so keep it there so it doesn't spoil). Let me go do the peanut butter sandwich experiment and I'll get back here and disclose results. I think I'll actually bolus each quarter this time as well. WTH, it's only 8 capsules... If they don't eat it, small loss; 4 slices of bread and a couple teaspoons of peanut butter...

Well, mixed results...The 2 that needed it most did in fact get theirs and eat it; Dot and Bang. (I think Bang may have come back around for 2nds) My big piggie April took hers but may have only mouthed it and spit it out, can't be sure. The buck wouldn't take it at all. There were 8 quarters, 7 goats, and 3 on the ground trampled when it was all over. I'm pretty sure CC didn't get one either. So I think it was Bang - 2, Dot - 1, CB - 1, April - 1 which means CM, CC, and RJ didn't get theirs. Hmmm On another note I've decided I have to find a better way to do it so I can keep track of who gets what while dispensing...


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## Baymule

Can you make a cow panel chute wide at one end and narrow it down? Once in the chute, you might have a better chance at making them take their medicine. LOL


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## Latestarter

I basically have all of them trained to be attached to the fence. That's how I milk Dot and how I trim hooves. So essentially, I'll attach them to the fence then have both hands free to manipulate their heads/mouths to do the balling gun or syringe with wormer, or tube with paste/gel... blood draws... whatever. I've tried to "guide them" into CP traps before and they recognized it immediately and I was left to try chasing them around their pen. So I go in and they all come over for scratches and such and I just take each in turn for their turn. 

Today's experiment, I didn't (need to) grab them, I just offered them the 1/4 PB & Copper sandwich when they stuck their heads through the fence, and waited watched to try to make sure they ate it. Several of them dropped them the first try and I picked them back up and tried again. So then  several of them took the sandwich and pulled back through the fence and in the mob I couldn't be sure which actually ate them and which spit them out. As I said, there were 3 on the ground partially eaten/trampled. 

So next time I will most likely attach them to the fence, bolus/paste them, and trim hooves at the same time and just do all 1 after the other. That way I'll know for sure that all have been done, and all on the same date. Will make it easier to track stuff going forward as well, like which are the most thrifty, who has better hooves, etc.


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## Alaskan

yeah... I have one girl that really needs her hooves done every week or 2.  Odd..they look fine... not sure why they go wonky so fast.


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## Latestarter

same here... seems like I just did her a couple of weeks ago, and I just checked her a couple days ago and they were looking horrible... Came directly back to the house and got the snips and went down and trimmed her up. I'm kinda surprised, cause I didn't anticipate they'd need to be trimmed as often as they do. Seems their hooves grow faster than my fingernails...


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## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> same here... seems like I just did her a couple of weeks ago, and I just checked her a couple days ago and they were looking horrible... Came directly back to the house and got the snips and went down and trimmed her up. I'm kinda surprised, cause I didn't anticipate they'd need to be trimmed as often as they do. Seems their hooves grow faster than my fingernails...


my baby sister is in the hill country where they grow rocks every time the sun comes up.  She never has to trim her goats hooves.


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## Baymule

LS is your son and family coming for Thanksgiving or Christmas? Any more on them moving to Texas?


----------



## farmerjan

For the balling gun and the boluses not staying in;  we stuff a little grain in the gun around the bolus so it fits tight enough to keep it in there when we do calves or the sheep or whatever.


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## Latestarter

Daughter is coming for 10 days over Thanksgiving. Son and his family should be here before and up to Christmas or right after Christmas till right after new years. Not sure yet, depends on work schedules. Since she just changed jobs to a new school with a 20K/yr increase in pay, they're there for a while. She's also concerned that her teacher's retirement is tied to her staying there her whole employed life. I tried to explain vesting to her and she said she'd check into it further.  

I guess with her employment contract she had to choose higher income and less direct retirement input, difference made up by the govt, with vesting requirements. Or higher direct participation with less govt and no vesting. She chose the former. No idea what the vesting requirement is...


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## Alaskan

anything with more government involvement would scare me off


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## greybeard

> I have tried 2 types of minerals. A couple of them will eat it, but most don't/won't. They do rather enjoy dumping over the bucket/bowl however so it's going into the soil every time it rains. So I guess the good is, eventually they'll get some benefit when they eat the grass in that area.



Maybe.. A large percentage of many mineral supplements is salt. Concentrated in one area, it usually kills grass.


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## greybeard

Alaskan said:


> anything with more government involvement would scare me off


X2!!
less, is more IMO.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I took advantage of what deals I could. I had planned to visit both Hooters and Buffalo Wild Wings up in Texarcana, but I had to wait for the chickens to grow at Hooters so ran out of time. Had an appointment back here so had to miss out on BWW.  Depending on how I feel in a couple of hours, I may or may not make the Applebees run I had planned. Right now I'm still pretty full so I imagine that's gonna be skipped as well. Golden Corral is doing their free buffet on Monday evening so I imagine I'll run back up to Texarcana for that.

I moved all the compost/spent hay from the pen to the new compost pile spot this afternoon and got a stinger in my left shoulder/neck. Kinda sucks. Not really all that painful, just annoying. Think I'll use the spa later tonight... maybe that will help it. Not much planned for tomorrow... gonna watch some football. My game is the late one. 

Oh, there was a small herd of 4-6 deer way down in the back pasture the other afternoon. They weren't scared at all and were out there grazing for the better part of 3 hours. Even when I went out to the goat pen to feed them dinner, one doe stayed behind to graze. She finally went under the fence and into the creek bed/back woods right at dark. So while I was at TSC today I bought a couple bags of deer corn and a mineral block and put all that back there for them. I really enjoy seeing them back there. Something for the coyotes to chase and leave my animals alone


----------



## Latestarter

Late breaking news... I did the spa early and the heat helped process dinner from earlier, leaving room for a late night dinner at Applebees! I had a bowl of French onion soup, double crunch shrimp with fries and slaw, washed down with a double screwdriver. I hope to sleep well tonight. I return you now to your regular scheduled browsing. 




 To be followed by


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm glad things worked out but have to wonder when you sleep.  We went out with friends to a Mexican restaurant and got home at 7:00 P.M. feeling like I was going to turn into a pumpkin since we rarely leave the farm in the evening.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Oh, there was a small herd of 4-6 deer way down in the back pasture the other afternoon.


Thursday afternoon, I saw large herds of big deer along US59 in the area just south of the old burned area North of Jefferson but before ya get to Linden. They looked to be in very good shape considering the large numbers of oak trees that were killed in that 2011 wildfire.


----------



## Latestarter

Well Mike, I do sleep, but it's in very short amounts of time unless I'm really burned out. Mostly I doze whenever I sit down so a couple hours at a time. Gosh GB, you were pretty far north... visiting your brother? How is he doing... Hopefully no/managed pain.


----------



## greybeard

Yes, I'm in LR for a few days.Glad I haven't been stopped by the popo here..they'd probably arrest me, as I'm pretty sure it is against the law to wear shoes or use turn signals here in Arkansas..


----------



## Alaskan




----------



## Pastor Dave

Joe, the double screwdriver would have let me sleep a while. Might have needed a D.D. too


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry Dave, but try as I might, I can't put terms to D.D. ??   oh... designated driver?  <DUH!> I'm a retired sailor (stories and rumors you may have heard/read may or may not be true ) and weigh close to 300 pounds. I enjoy the flavor and catch zero buzz from that small amount. Takes quite a bit more than that to start impairing me. There was a time early in my naval career that I was on the verge of becoming an alcoholic. It runs in my family history, and I was/am well aware of it, so stopped myself before getting to that point. Now I rarely drink. When I choose to, it generally takes 5-6 shots (or more) over a short period of time for me to start feeling it (impairment) and I stop before I get to that point.

Well it has been a couple of cool, gray, damp days here. Fog moved in last night... cool air over warm wet ground. Fog is finally gone, but still real gray and forecast to stay that way for another day. Gloomy... Then I guess a little possible sunshine on Wednesday, followed by a couple more wet dreary days. Looking out the window, the sun is trying hard to burn through the gloom... But it's still looking mighty gray off to the west.

Had a good evening last night watching my team woop up on the Denver ponies. I don't know why, but it's so satisfying to see John Elway scowl... Maybe it's because they are one team that has seemed to give my team fits over the years...  I don't know... Have you ever just not liked something or someone with no real identifiable reason?

So Golden Corral is having their Veterans dinner tonight and I had planned on participating. However, this gray weather has me debating on making the drive. I guess if I'm going to go I better decide pretty soon as it's already 3:30. I understand it's from 5 or 5:30 till 9 and it's an hour drive to get there.

So as many who read my journal know, I have this new Buck; RJ and if you read @Devonviolet 's journal, you know I have lent him to them so her two does can be serviced. He has already had his way with one of them, Falina, but I understand it was consensual... I guess Ruby was not going to be a pushover/hussy and is going to make my boy wait and earn it. He was all over my milking doe Dot the night that I brought him home and even though that was only ~ 3 weeks ago, he's grown quite a bit. I wasn't sure (and still am not) if he successfully bred Dot or not. Well, it's been about 18 days since that happened so over the next few days I'll be watching her close to see if she goes back into heat.

Since I did the PB & copper sandwiches for the goats, I have noticed the hair along Bang's spine has become much darker... like black... and shiny. I'm really hoping it isn't my imagination and that they all see marked improvement over the coming weeks/months.


----------



## Latestarter

And for another news flash... I did go to Golden Corral this evening for dinner. I went after goat chores and arrived just before 7pm. The dining area was crowded but there was no (more) line waiting to get in. I got seated with several other vets and we enjoyed a real nice meal together. Kinda reminded me of eating on the mess decks with the crew while aboard ship. There were a few older folks there, say Korea time frame. Didn't see any old enough to be WW II... most were around my age... Nam and later.

Not really sure why some folks don't care for it. The food is pretty decent depending on what you choose, and it is a buffet so you shouldn't leave hungry...


----------



## greybeard

Most of the buffet type places I've been to all suffer the same fault. Everything is 'decent' or 'so-so' but there is rarely anything that stands out..no 'specialty' or outstanding dish or couple of entrees that would keep bringing me back again and again. Food for the masses without having to clean up afterward but I can do that at home on those 'gourmet heavy duty' paper plates .
Our Golden Corral went belly up for just that reason, and it is now a Chinese buffet... (the cat population seems a little smaller around there nowadays)   and so did the all you can eat buffet known as The Hot Biscuit--after being there for several decades.  It is now an Italian food place and it is not a bad experience at all.


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## babsbag

The only minerals my goats will eat are SweetLix. They love those things. As far as bolusing...I gave up on all of it and use Multimin injectable. Some get injection site abscesses but if I get the injection in under all the layers of skin it doesn't happen. There is just no way I can bolus all these goats by myself. My next experiment will to buy individual minerals from Advanced  Biological Concepts.  They have a copper, a selenium, and a zinc which are the ones they seem to struggle with the most. I had a cobalt block out for them, they loved it. Lasted about 2 weeks with 40 goats.


----------



## animalmom

I found a new mineral that seems to be working very well with my goats.
http://www.newcountryorganics.com/shop/files/index/download/id/1446492255/

Higher copper and has DE AND AND AND my goats eat it, not just come over and sniff and walk away but come over and dig in.

It is pricy and has to be shipped but even so the price plus shipping is less than the lower copper loose minerals I was buying locally... and I though those were good minerals with 1750 ppm on the copper.

Anything to avoid bolusing!  The goats look better, soft, sleek coats and did I mention the goats eat the stuff.  Doesn't matter how good your minerals are if the picky divas won't touch it.


----------



## babsbag

I have always heard that the goats will eat them if they need them so while mine we happily turning up their nose at them I thought it was because they didn't need them.  But they looked horrible, I was giving Bo-Se before kidding and to newborns, and I lost a kid to a selenium deficiency. I switched brands of minerals and they think it is candy. All of them eat it.  

Sweetlix is 1750 on the copper but I still do the multimin. 
@animalmom  I looked at that product and don't see a mention of how much copper or selenium is in it.


----------



## greybeard

If you can't find or get Sweetlix where you live, you might look in to one of the other brands the same company makes and markets in different regions. 
Crystalyx, Stockade, Sweetlix, and Ultralyx are all made by Ridley Block Operations, with plant locations in:
*Plant Locations*

Buffalo, Texas
Fort Worth, Texas
Montgomery, Alabama
Pittsburg, Kansas
Flemingsburg, Kentucky
Stockton, California
Whitewood, South Dakota
Worthington, Minnesota
Follow the links at the bottom of the following web page for your specific wants and needs:
http://www.ridleyinc.com/our-company/divisions/ridley-block-operations/


----------



## Latestarter

Sun finally returned this afternoon. Just about perfect temp wise @ 72, but still real damp. More moisture forecast starting Wed night through Thursday and cloudy into Friday. Temps are supposed to stay on the warmer side though. Days in mid-upper 70s, nights upper 50s to low 60s.

Been a month since I turned the lawn tractor in for warranty repair. Finally tracked down the repair folks and they say it will be delivered back to Lowes on Thursday. While waiting for it, I bought one of those pull behind dump carts so I can use it to haul my tools and such around working the fencing. I'm sure I'll find lots of other uses for it as well.


----------



## CntryBoy777

How much did the dump cart run ya....if ya don't mind me asking?....I've been thinking about getting one, but too many other things has gotten in the way of acquiring one....


----------



## babsbag

I want this one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N9YOMT...t=&hvlocphy=9032627&hvtargid=pla-308097981259

It is in my Amazon shopping cart where it will probably be for quite a while.


----------



## Mike CHS

I like that one babs.

Several years ago we got the $99 one from TSC but found out the hard way that the thin ply tires weren't meant for carrying any weight.


----------



## Bruce

That one doesn't look real handy for pulling behind a garden tractor @babsbag . I use mine a lot @Latestarter. Good for moving firewood from the little barn up to the house, bringing cut wood from downed trees at the edge of the field up to the little barn, carting tools (as you suggested) - quite helpful when putting in fence since those holes seem to require quite a number of tools at my place, moving 'paca poo and compost.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

We have one of those dump carts too. We have used the snot out of that thing! I love to use it for everything. I found ours on CL, it was used once for mulch and that's it. It was almost brand new, but I got it for half the price  We are close to what I call "hippy central" and "yuppyville" so you come across all kinds of equipment that was used ONCE and then left to sit in someone's garage.


----------



## Latestarter

I got the $99 one as well Mike https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/groundwork-trailing-dump-cart-750-lb-10-cu-ft-capacity
Tried to upload pics but can't for some reason.  Even saving the images and then trying (vice copy/paste from site)... Anyway, it's the 10 cubic foot one and it is thin metal and pretty "flimsy" compared to the heavier plastic one (like Babs linked). I thought about getting the larger one but figured it's being pulled by a lawn tractor, not an ATV, and between my weight and the additional up to 1500 pounds of the larger cart and contents, might prove too much for the machine. 

I looked at those tires as well Mike and determined if push comes to shove I'll replace them with solid rubber tires like those you can purchase at Lowes/Home Depot to replace wheel barrow tires. I really don't expect to be carrying too much weight in it in any case, so hopefully it will work fine. If I need to carry a lot of weight, I'll just use my truck bed. And I have driven the truck up to downed trees to load up with fire wood as I cut it. Even with muddy pastures it's not an issue with 4 wheel drive (so far). But I really try hard not to tear them up if wet.


----------



## animalmom

@babsbag, major sorry on the lack of copper and selenium info for the New Country Organics.  I would have sworn the tag stated the amount.  Regardless, I have emailed the company and will post their reply here when I get it.


----------



## animalmom

@babsbag, according to New Country Organics.... copper ppm minimum is 3000, zinc ppm 7100, potassium 0.8% and selenium ppm 16.

They are working to getting a more detailed product tag on the product.


----------



## babsbag

That is really  good on the copper. Zinc I have no idea as my mineral lists it as a percentage; Potassium isn't listed at all but selenium is 50 ppm so quite a bit higher. I think I am going to bite the bullet and order some individual loose minerals and see how they like them. I they won't touch them maybe I can add them to the ones they do like and up the copper and selenium that way. 

@Bruce  this is what the company says about the gorilla cart. 
"The patented 2-in-1 convertible handle allows the cart to be towed behind a lawn tractor/ATV or easily pulled by hand."

No way am I buying a cart that can haul 1500 lbs and pull it by hand when it is at capacity.


----------



## Bruce

You can get quite a variety of tires at TSC as well. I got a couple of small ones for the alpaca stand I built.


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## Latestarter

First, I'd like to wish all my friends & acquaintances (& anyone else who reads this) here at BYH a really happy Thanksgiving. I hope y'all can share your day with family &/or friends and find something in your past/present to be thankful for.


----------



## Bruce

And second? 

Same to you and DD Joe. Don't eat all that food Thursday!! You can have leftovers for a long time.


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## CntryBoy777

Hope you have an Enjoyable day yourself Joe....it'll be just another day here with Joyce and I....nothing special, but we are thankful every day and always enjoy our time together. Hope the visit and time goes well with DD and certainly hope that some answers can be found...she surely deserves them........


----------



## Latestarter

Forgot what the second thing was...  It's oldtimers disease I'm tellin ya.


----------



## Bruce

You and a whole lot of the rest of us!


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## Baymule

Glad that your DD is spending time with you, hope y'all have a nice time together. Have a Happy Thanksgiving with her and later, when you go to Devonviolets house. We are having our DD, her husband and 3 girls over, a very small Thanksgiving, but a happy one. My son is on a job in south Texas and will be working. Hope the job is finished before Christmas!


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## Alaskan

working is good

south Texas is hot

getting to skip the relatives is awesome

I see no downside


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## Bruce

Some people actually like their relatives @Alaskan


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## OneFineAcre

Happy Thanksgiving
I hope you have a great time with your family


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## Baymule

Alaskan said:


> working is good
> 
> south Texas is hot
> 
> getting to skip the relatives is awesome
> 
> I see no downside



We like to gather everyone up and have a good time. He will be missed.


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## Latestarter

Thanks all. 2 pumpkin pies cooked and refrigerated. chocolate pudding pie created and in there also. veggies for the stuffing prepped and ready for use. Turkey is thawed and in the refer waiting to be cleaned and stuffed. Taters will get prepped after the bird is in the oven. Just about ready to get this meal cookin'!


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## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> Some people actually like their relatives @Alaskan



  Wowsers!

Well...I like and enjoy most of mine...it is just the in-laws that I dislike...well, and spouse.


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## Bruce

Ohh, I sure hope your spouse isn't reading over your shoulder!
I got lucky, I got good in-laws!


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## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> Ohh, I sure hope your spouse isn't reading over your shoulder!
> I got lucky, I got good in-laws!


good in-laws huh?  must be nice!


----------



## Bruce

Yep. My spouse got good in-laws as well. Of course her parents live in VT, my entire family other than spouse and kids, live in California. But I talked to my older sister and my dad yesterday. It was her birthday. Dad wanted to know if they could come visit in June. DW said YES!!!! when I relayed the question. They heard her say it and she was a good 15' from the phone


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## Alaskan

very nice!

sure makes things more pleasant if everyone can get along.


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## Latestarter

For those close to Tractor supply, I got a "Neighbor's Club" Email last night with coupons and a follow up this morning that they're having a store wide 15% sale this evening from like 5 till 9pm and 25% off all clearance items. If you need stuff, this evening might be a good time to go stock up.


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## Latestarter

Front line recently passed over. lots of gusty winds and some rain for about 30 minutes. Think that's about it for this one. Shame, could have used more rain. Was hoping for a good soaking so I could burn. Went to TSC and paid in advance for 12 bags of goat feed (essentially got 2 bags free), some fencing equipment and a T-post puller. They finally got 6-7" PT wood fence posts in so after the wet weather passes I'll go get the ones I rain checked at 15% off. Wish they had more sales... Wish I had more money to spend there.  If I could afford it I'd own close to a hardware store.


----------



## Latestarter

So yeah, another sleepless night. Feeling stressed and edgy. Maybe from the front that passed through. Dozed a little in my recliner and tried to go to bed around 2:30. 5:30 now and eyes wide. Even with the window above my head opened letting in fresh air, no luck. So made 4 slices of cinnamon & sugared wheat toast and a big mug of tea and will wait till daylight then head out. Get the goats fed and start back in on fencing. Highs today supposed to be mid 50's and more of same through the week. Nights supposed to be down just above freezing or down to mid 20s. Guess the fly problem is finally about to end for this year.

Also am about out of hay so have to set up to go get more of that as well. The feed I bought is supposed to be ready this afternoon as well. And I need to go get the additional fence posts. Guess I'll be spending my day running around instead of doing fencing...   Gotta go get the danged property taxes paid as well. Longer I wait the higher they get. 

Just looked at the radar and looks like Fred's been getting some rain and it's about to hit Mike as well. The front gave virtually no rain here... 30 minutes worth. Seems like you guys are going to get some solid moisture out of this.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have had a little more than an inch so far.  I let the sheep that we had caught for our helper back out since the loading area is a bunch of mud.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is pretty soggy here too....we ended up with 1.2" out of the overnite showers. It sounds like Mike may be getting some snow flurries this wknd....there is a very slight chance of them here, but should stay well north and east of us here....


----------



## Mini Horses

Yep -- I enriched the coffers at TSC last night as well.  Knowing the discount was only that one night, I held off weekend buying.   I love a discount!!!  Did my hay runs on weekend tho and no discount there.  LOL

Removed & installed 200 ft new fence last week.  Next week I am off 3 days, weather to be good.....hope to finish some fence repairs then, move some shelters, etc. That work is #2 on my list.

BIG thing on top of my list is to butcher 7 young, excess roos.   Want that done ASAP and weather will be "cool".   My milk & egg frig is pretty empty, so chill space is waiting for them!!    Haven't done this in a while but ready to remove them from the feed bill.  I plan to skin them...rest the meat, then can it, broth the bones & scrap meats.   They actually felt very well rounded when I caught them to pen last night.   Knives are sharp & waiting!!  Unless it is pouring rain, Monday is their day.


----------



## Latestarter

I got a little less than 1/4" of rain. Barely registered in the collection tube. Not sure if the wet, the cool or the wind did it but the goats are frisky as hell today... they're charging all over the danged place, chasing each other and head butting.  No snow forecast for here, but night temps later this week could get down to mid 20s.

Sounds like a plan MH. After loading and unloading 600 pounds of feed and another 4-600 pounds of fence posts I'm relaxing for a bit. Used up the last of the hay I had for the goats this morning so will do a hay run this afternoon. So will be loading and unloading ~600 pounds of hay. Supposed to meet the guy between 4-4:30. There goes another $120. Hope it'll last through the end of the month but not gonna bet money on it.


----------



## Bruce

Clearly you need a tractor and haying equipment Joe! 



Latestarter said:


> Nights supposed to be down just above freezing or down to mid 20s. Guess the fly problem is finally about to end for this year.


Yeah for no more flies, sounds like you are going to be colder than us tonight.



> Gotta go get the danged property taxes paid as well. Longer I wait the higher they get.


Um YEAH! I don't know about there but here they hit you REALLY hard for being even 1 day late. Instant penalty of several hundred $$ plus a % every month that you haven't seen on a deposit of any sort in decades. Even if you've paid on time 3X a year for nearly 30 years. There is no slack.


----------



## Latestarter

Ours aren't technically due until January. The bill comes in October... should say bills because mine is broken into 4 separate charges on 2 bills. Just different allocations of the funds within govt. Anyway, they give you a discount for paying early. the discount disappears a bit each month until gone and full bill due in January and they also include payment amounts for February in case you have to be late. Not complaining about that aspect, they're really very fair giving a small break for early payment. Just wish the cost wasn't so high in general.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Ours aren't technically due until January. The bill comes in October... should say bills because mine is broken into 4 separate charges on 2 bills. Just different allocations of the funds within govt. Anyway, they give you a discount for paying early. the discount disappears a bit each month until gone and full bill due in January and they also include payment amounts for February in case you have to be late. Not complaining about that aspect, they're really very fair giving a small break for early payment. Just wish the cost wasn't so high in general.


Similar here. Get the bill in Oct.
Except, No discount if paid before Jan1 and no different if paid as late as Jan31.
There's a chart on the tax bill that shows the late penalty for each month as far as July.
Oct thru Jan 31-full amt.
Wait till last day of:
Feb-add 7%.
March-add 9%.
April-add 11%.
May-add 13%.
June-add 15%.
July-add 18%+20%.

Over age 65 (or disabled) AND a resident on the property, you can elect to make 4 equal payments and pay no penalty or interest:
1/4 of taxes due by 1/31/2018.
1/4 of taxes due by 3/31/2018.
1/4 of taxes due by 5/31/2018.
1/4 of taxes due by 7/31/2018.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Our weather here has been crazy. Highs in 60's with strong winds advisory. Within 36 hours the lows in high 20's and highs only supposed to get up to 30's. It was weird yesterday breathing warm air that cooled to the point of freezing by afternoon. A real shock to the system to not have a gradual cool down.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Over age 65 (or disabled) AND a resident on the property, you can elect to make 4 equal payments and pay no penalty or interest:


I ASSUME that means if you make the 1/4 payment by those dates?



Latestarter said:


> Just wish the cost wasn't so high in general.


You really don't want me to post what my property taxes are again, right?


----------



## Latestarter

OK, weather change is here... cool: 40°f, pretty windy, & gray outside. A little damp, but not as much as the gray sky would imply. I've fed the goats, they're happy, have started a fire in the furnace in preps for several days of cold weather (supposed to be down to 21°f tonight ), put a 10 pound smoked shank ham in the oven to warm up, and now I'm    with a nice large mug of freshly brewed Dunkin' Donuts blend coffee. Bought it for my favorite oldest daughter when she was here as she likes it (with pumpkin spice creamer no less). I drink tea, hot or cold, but last night got a wild hair and made a pot. It was good (sans the pumpkin creamer... I prefer french vanilla ) so I decided to make another pot this am. Also eating a banana for breakfast. Figured the potassium would do me good. Not really hungry though at the moment (maybe something wrong with me?).

Had a visit from @Devonviolet and her DH yesterday. Was great to see them again. Mel was really happy to give them a fond greeting as well. I think he likes them as much as their dogs like me   I told them if they ever want to get rid of Deo and Violet, I'd be happy to take them.  They brought me some duck eggs and more cheese  YUM!  Had to return the gift favor so gave them some yaupon cuttings that they wanted so she can try rooting them. She loves the translucent red berries and wants to try making yaupon leaf tea. (I may have to try this!) https://www.npr.org/sections/thesal...e-buzz-on-americas-forgotten-native-tea-plant



 



So what I originally thought was yaupon was either a male plant, (no berries) or chinese privet...  and I have other plants that looks similar to both but have non translucent red berries... No matter to me, I had intended to cut all of them down and get rid of them. They're shading out my pasture grasses. Might change my mind after I try it. Have to learn how to prep the leaves. I guess they can be done as a green or black tea. Looks simple enough to do. Since I presently ham roasting in the oven I guess I'll go grab some leaves and add them in to roast. I'll report later on the results.

So things to look forward to: using the jacuzzi during sub freezing temps, tonight's football game as well as several others this coming weekend as there are like 4 or 5 games this week that have major playoff ramifications. OK, so maybe only important to the players and football fans, which I am one...


----------



## CntryBoy777

We did a ham yesterday for dinner....and now are on leftovers........and Joyce made up some chex mix. We are in the low 40s today but some sun peeking thru the breaks in the clouds....we've been cloudy for the past couple of days. So how did your daughter's visit go?


----------



## Mike CHS

We are on the chilly side also but the wind has let up a bit.  At least all of that rain softened the ground up so T-posts are going in easier than the week before.


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so here's where it stands @Devonviolet :  Here are the yaupon leaves after baking in the oven for 30 minutes at 250 then an hour at 400.





Here is a few... maybe 12-15 leaves boiling for ~15 minutes. Supposedly, this doesn't have the tannin build up issues of regular tea if steeped too long. I sued whole leaves vice crumbling them up. I'll do that next time and see if it brews better/faster/stronger/etc.




After boiling, I filtered it through my auto drip coffee maker by opening the filter area and pouring it in through the filter to the pot below. Here's the result.




I drink my tea sweetened with creamer. drinking it now it tastes fine... a but different than regular black teas and has a different aroma, but not bad at all. So, since I just bought 2 100 bag boxes of tea bags, I'll use those up first, then might consider switching over to this as I don't have to pay for it. We'll see.


----------



## Latestarter

Just took a shot at a coyote 3/4 of the way down my back pasture border with my AR. I missed the danged thing!   my eyesight aint what it usedtawas. I've been meaning to swap out the red/green dot for a 3x9 scope and re-sight but haven't gotten around to it.   Shoulda used my .22. It's accurate to an inch at 50 yards. The shot would have been about 75. It was almost pure gray and at first I didn't even see it there it blended in so well. So I also went ahead and trimmed up the lower bradford pear tree limbs that were obstructing my view from my recliner. Doubt he'll be back anytime soon, but I'll be looking for him. Mean time... I need to get a scope and get sighted in post haste. I won't miss next time.


----------



## Bruce

Sounds like you and Mel have your work cut out for you!


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Mel was really happy to give them a fond greeting as well. I think he likes them as much as their dogs like me


Geez don't you know you are supposed to kick LGDs out in the field and ignore them or they won't be good guardians??


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> I drink my tea sweetened with creamer. drinking it now it tastes fine... a but different than regular black teas and has a different aroma, but not bad at all.


That is so cool!  I'm glad you tried it.  I took about 10 branches, from the big branch you gave me & will wash the other leaves, put them in the oven & make some tea to try, too.  I'm really looking forward to trying it!  


Latestarter said:


> Had a visit from @Devonviolet and her DH yesterday. Was great to see them again. Mel was really happy to give them a fond greeting as well. I think he likes them as much as their dogs like me  I told them if they ever want to get rid of Deo and Violet, I'd be happy to take them.


Its always a joy to see Mel!  He is such a sweet dog!  I always marvel at his size, especially his head!  Its MASSIVE!  I sure wouldn't want to be a predator tangling with Him!!!  When he stands at the gate, to get attention from DH (who stands 6'4" in his muck boots)Mel almost reaches the top of DH's head.


Latestarter said:


> She loves the translucent red berries and wants to try making yaupon leaf tea.


Here are a couple of the photos, that I took with my phone. The translucent berries are so striking!  I'm so looking forward to trying the tea!









The reason we visited with LS is that our Falina went back into heat. So, RJ needed to come to visit her for a conjugal visit.

When we put RJ in with Falina, they did a little dance, but then Falina turned around and reared up to let RJ know that in no uncertain terms, she was NOT in the mood!!!    Eventually it was time for dinner & all was forgotten. They both buried their muzzles in their feed.

That's Falina in the front.



Don't they make a cute couple??? 



Here are some shots I got, of RJ, today.







Here, he is letting Violet & Deo know to keep their distance. There was a delay, after I pushed the button, so I didn't get RJ rearing up.  



RJ really is a good looking buck! I look forward to seeing his kids in the Spring!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Those will be some nice looking kids, I do believe. I've never seen any of those kind of trees around here, but it does sound interesting....guess we'll just stick with the Luzianne....


----------



## Pastor Dave

Can't beat Lipton!
I do like some Earl Grey black tea.


----------



## Bruce

Clearly RJ needs to bring Falina a bunch of flowers and a bottle of wine. Can't expect her to just head for the bedroom.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Don't forget the Smokes @Bruce ....


----------



## Bruce

I wouldn't want their precious goats to get into bad for your health habits @CntryBoy777 !!!


----------



## Mini Horses

I like my tea with a touch of sugar & cram............not as white as yours LS.  

While I enjoy coffee, sometimes I get back to my hot tea days for  a few days.  I like to use bulk leaves and run in my coffee pot so I have enough for several hours.    I'm a Lipton gal but, several other brands are great, too.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Just took a shot at a coyote 3/4 of the way down my back pasture border with my AR. I missed the danged thing!   my eyesight aint what it usedtawas. I've been meaning to swap out the red/green dot for a 3x9 scope and re-sight but haven't gotten around to it.   Shoulda used my .22. It's accurate to an inch at 50 yards. The shot would have been about 75. It was almost pure gray and at first I didn't even see it there it blended in so well. So I also went ahead and trimmed up the lower bradford pear tree limbs that were obstructing my view from my recliner. Doubt he'll be back anytime soon, but I'll be looking for him. Mean time... I need to get a scope and get sighted in post haste. I won't miss next time.


It's why I prefer a forward mounted scope....Scout rifle style. You see more than just what is in the optics. 
He/She will be back. He didn't show up there for no reason..


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so I figured it was time to get it right. I broke out my laser range finder to find out real distances. The coyote was at 137 yards from shooting position. The back/woods edge of my back pasture is 209 yards from shooting position. My .22 plinking targets are 50 yards from shooting position. My pistol/handgun shooting back board is 37 yards. I will be setting up new shooting target back boards to properly sight in and get back in practice. I'll be doing 100 yards and the existing 200 yards. The .22 I know is dead on at 50 yards. It was on @ 1" groups when I last sighted it in at 100 yds. I think I'll get my .243 sighted right away as that one was, and is scoped and very flat shooting. Haven't shot it in years. It has a 2.5-7x scope which will be more than adequate for a coyote sized target. I used it for groundhogs/ground squirrels (prairie dogs).

The coyote was in the same place as the other one I shot at. The previous one took off and ran across to the other side of the pasture, back right corner. This one did a 180 and went back the way it had come into the pasture on the left side. It was behind the clump of privet where the wild grape vines are @Devonviolet <---has been there so knows where I'm speaking of... Just beyond where we cut the yaupon. It was staring out into the back of the back pasture where I had dumped a 50lb bag of deer corn. There have been deer at the pile but weren't at that time. The other coyote I saw a month or so ago was 1/2 way down the right side of the pasture and left before I could get inside and get armed.


----------



## Baymule

Hope you get the coyote. They are pests. We have swarms of them around here. I have one yaupon bush on our place. One! I have made yaupon tea before, it ain't bad. I call yaupon the renewable resource. On the property we had in Livingston, we had huge bushes of it, the horses ate it like candy. When I ran out of hay, I'd cut off limbs of it and the horses would eat it, even the twigs.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah, the goats love the yaupon as well as the chinese privet... pretty much everything with green leaves I've given them up to this point... go figure. Their favorite though is the gum tree leaves. Those are candy that they'll fight each other for. There are a couple of trees here that they aren't real fond of. They eat but aren't crazy about the pig nut tree leaves, and the (whatever kind of) maple out front isn't a big hit with them at all. I have found 2 choke cherry trees, one is very young, basically a bush at this point, but the other is a 30' tree. They are both in the pasture I've been working on fencing, so I'm going to need to eliminate them before the goats roam free. Don't want to kill them.

@Mini Horses I don't typically drink my tea that "white"... Kinda slipped while adding the creamer and the tea wasn't as dark as my normal black pekoe tea. It was actually more a reddish color.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I think I'll get my .243 sighted right away as that one was, and is scoped and very flat shooting.


Sounds like that is the one you want so you don't have to guess at the drop if the beast is 120 or 180 yards. I expect that takes a fair bit of practice with any particular gun.


----------



## Latestarter

Actually at such short range it's really not an issue unless a really small caliber or very large (heavy bullet/slug). If sighted in at 200 yards, bullet rise at 100 yards is like 1/2" and drop at 300 yards is like 2". So unless you're shooting at a chicken egg sized target, you're gonna kill it. The more difficult shot is trying to hit a running target to gauge lead as well as hold over/under based on range (increasing/decreasing).


----------



## Bruce

Well then it does seem that you would have a hard time missing something the size of a coyote. Tell it to stand still


----------



## Latestarter

Not sure what I did but I slept pretty good last night. Woke up ~8:00 and didn't feel the compulsion to roll over and try to go back to sleep. Not feeling as wrung out today (so far) either. Maybe the cold I'm finally getting over caused more havoc than I thought. Now that I think about it, I got it from my DD when she came for Thanksgiving so it's been almost 3 weeks... No wonder I've been run down. Anyway, the fire in the wood stove was down to coals, same as every morning, and I'm letting it burn out. Inside temp is ~68, outside temp today is supposed to be mid 70s. It's 42 right now. Think I'll even open the house and air it out a bit.  Didn't get below freezing last night, no ice in the goat's water tub this morning. Did have a light frost though. Not supposed to be below freezing again the rest of this week.

Gotta do some running around today... go pay the water bill, do a little grocery shopping. My son asked me to pick up a couple of rib roasts for him since they're about 1/2 the price he has to pay for them out in Vegas. On sale here right now for $5.99/lb. I'm down to my last container of frozen Spaghetti sauce so asked him if they'd like me to make up a huge batch while they're here so they can take some home with them, like I did last time they were here. Of course he said yes, so I'll get the makins for that as well. Maybe I'll make it beforehand and get it frozen in advance. They won't be here as long this time so rather not waste multiple days cooking while they're here.

Hope everyone had a great/productive/relaxing/enjoyable weekend. I did


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> They won't be here as long this time so rather not waste multiple days cooking while they're here.


Right, you need him to help fence


----------



## Latestarter

Got the water bill paid and while at the ATM to get cash, discovered a card already in the machine. Too bad they didn't leave their PIN for me as well  So I returned it to the bank cashier at the drive through window before I left. Coming back from there I passed the vehicle inspection station and it dawned on me that I need to get that done and pay for a new year on the truck and trailer so swung in and paid my $7.00 to have them make sure my lights and wipers worked (what a joke!). Then I recalled that I've needed an oil/filter/lube for the better part of 4 months and don't feel like crawling under to do it so said to heck with it and had them do that as well.

So the secondary reason I went out was to get a couple rib roasts. When I first got there, the biggest they had was about 7 pounds and only one. The cutter was in a meeting. So I went and did other shopping, got the truck done, had lunch, and went back later, only to find that the cutter was done for the day & they were doing clean up  So, looks like I'll be making another trip out there earlier tomorrow to once again try to get a couple of rib roasts. Guess I'll pay the truck registration and some property taxes on that trip and get that done. Every month there's something else to bleed my money away... 

Have had the house opened up all day and it's been beautiful. Temp got to around 77 and there's been a nice breeze. Have the house partially shut back down now but the window beside me here is opened, ceiling light/fan combo is on and I'm sitting here in shorts and slippers. So I guess I'll go watch my team on Monday night football.


----------



## Bruce

$7 is a steal! I think our annual inspections are around $40 now. I don't know what all they do, probably make sure all the lights work and there aren't any warning lights on. I guess they also plug into the thing under the dash and check whatever they can for failures there. At least they did change it from twice a year some years back.


----------



## Devonviolet

The inspection is actually $14. The state splits it. $7 to the mechanic for doing the inspection. Then, $7 is added onto the registration renewal. I'm not sure the rationale, but that is the way TX does it.


----------



## greybeard

Maybe not much longer...
https://www.texastribune.org/2017/0...still-have-take-my-car-inspection-every-year/


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yay i finally caught up on your journal LS!! Took me a few days but oh well. Nice looking buck you have, how are you keeping him away from the young girls? Those berries look a lot like currents, i wonder if they taste similar. Very jealous of your warm weather esp atm.

I never did see you mention if your mower got fixed?


----------



## Latestarter

Yes, the mower got fixed, no cost to me, but took about a month. Wouldn't have thought it would take that long considering we're passed the mowing season... We're warmer than you, but to be expected since I'm ~690 miles of latitude (~10°) south of you, bout a thousand miles straight line as the bird flys. I think the berries are toxic... not sure though, if you're referring to the berries on the yaupon. 

We've been experiencing a little cold here of late... night temps in low 20s and days in the 40s-50s. I know that's spring weather for you folks. Last night was ~32 and today it's supposed to get to 68. Expecting mid 50s for highs the rest of the week. I can handle that just fine 

The young girls (2) the oldest is almost the same size as her mom and the youngest isn't far behind. I ship RJ (He is damned handsome IMHO ) off to do stud duties for @Devonviolet 's girls to keep him away for at least a little while


----------



## misfitmorgan

If you make it to the end of december without him tagging the young girls you might not have to worry about it this year. He is very handsome for sure and hopefully makes you pretty babies. 

Glad the mower was fixed and for free....minus tire cost for the trailer of course 

Yes i was referring to the berries on yaupon...to bad you cant eat them. We have a very similar looking bush at my mothers that has berries like that, we just always called them poison berries....dunno their actual name but the birds eat them.


----------



## Alaskan

Bruce said:


> $7 is a steal! I think our annual inspections are around $40 now. I don't know what all they do, probably make sure all the lights work and there aren't any warning lights on. I guess they also plug into the thing under the dash and check whatever they can for failures there. At least they did change it from twice a year some years back.



inspections? ?   We don't have to do that here, unless you live in the big city of Anchorage.   Sheesh, I have had different  warning lights lit up on most of my vehicles for years now.  

As to goats in heat.... I have one girl I still need to get bred... I have been waving a buck can under her nose for a week now, no sign yet.    I had kind of thought a herd of does would cycle close together?  

One of the other does was full on last Tuesday.  

Dunno...


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> We have a very similar looking bush at my mothers that has berries like that, we just always called them poison berries....dunno their actual name but the birds eat them.


Yeah birds can eat some things that other animals can't. We have a reasonably large Bittersweet Nightshade plant behind the little barn. The chickens LOVE those berries but I gather that mammals can get sick from eating them.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Alaskan said:


> inspections? ?   We don't have to do that here, unless you live in the big city of Anchorage.   Sheesh, I have had different  warning lights lit up on most of my vehicles for years now.
> 
> As to goats in heat.... I have one girl I still need to get bred... I have been waving a buck can under her nose for a week now, no sign yet.    I had kind of thought a herd of does would cycle close together?
> 
> One of the other does was full on last Tuesday.
> 
> Dunno...



No inspections here either...thankfully.

Our does seem to cycle within a week or two of each other but all of our does are seasonal breeders as well. Has the doe bred before? If not she just might not be old enough yet.



Bruce said:


> Yeah birds can eat some things that other animals can't. We have a reasonably large Bittersweet Nightshade plant behind the little barn. The chickens LOVE those berries but I gather that mammals can get sick from eating them.



As far as i know as long as it is not a known posionous plant like belladonna aka deadly nightshade some type of animal will eat it. We had some type of nightshade at our old place, the chickens didnt seem interested in it but the goats loved it of course they also loved day lilies.


----------



## Alaskan

misfitmorgan said:


> Our does seem to cycle within a week or two of each other but all of our does are seasonal breeders as well. Has the doe bred before? If not she



she was born early last summer,  so close to 1.5 years old.  She looks nicely filled out, good gum color, overall healthy looking. .. etc. 

obviously,  this is her first breeding. 

she is half ND and half Saanen, I think the ND breed year around?  So not sure how she will be.


----------



## misfitmorgan

My ND crosses were not seasonal breeders...so who knows. Maybe she is already bred?


----------



## Alaskan

misfitmorgan said:


> My ND crosses were not seasonal breeders...so who knows. Maybe she is already bred?


not possible


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah... tough to get in a motherly way when there's no buck present... Tougher still to do a drive by breeding when there's no indication of being in heat...   Al, I loaned my buck to DevonV for as long as she needed him. She though one of hers had come back into heat so I loaned him to her again. She wasn't interested the 2nd time around so we're all guessing she actually did take the first go-round. All that to ask... Is there any way that you can bring your doe to the owner of the buck and leave her there for ~ 3 weeks? The heat cycle is typically 17-23 days I believe... and the best point is right mid heat so 21 days ought to cover it. Or maybe borrow the buck to visit with you until the job gets done?


----------



## Bruce

Maybe RJ would like a road trip vacation


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry, but the distance involved in that trip is a bit too much...


----------



## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> Yeah... tough to get in a motherly way when there's no buck present... Tougher still to do a drive by breeding when there's no indication of being in heat...   Al, I loaned my buck to DevonV for as long as she needed him. She though one of hers had come back into heat so I loaned him to her again. She wasn't interested the 2nd time around so we're all guessing she actually did take the first go-round. All that to ask... Is there any way that you can bring your doe to the owner of the buck and leave her there for ~ 3 weeks? The heat cycle is typically 17-23 days I believe... and the best point is right mid heat so 21 days ought to cover it. Or maybe borrow the buck to visit with you until the job gets done?


that is what I did last year. .. just dropped off does. 

SO MUCH easier.  Also less awkward.   Gotta say, standing with my 4 youngest boys, watching 2 goats having sex, and the commentary.     Like "did he get it in that time"  "do you think he did a full release inside her"  odd 

just saying, odd.

ahem. 

But it worked fine for Mocha, but she is experienced, and a 3/4 nubian so cries like all get out when in heat.  Can we say obvious?

Anyway, Mozzie, being 1/2 dwarf, there is only 1 buck I know of small enough to breed her..... so... no choices. 

I might ask again though...if I could just drop her off.


----------



## Latestarter

Hey they learn about the birds and bees and you don't have any splainin to do 





So it started sprinkling while out doing evening goat chores right before dark. Came in and looked and the forecast above look promising but I find often lets me down. SO I opened the radar picture instead and it's lookin' good! Might actually get some real rain out of this one. Maybe even a rumble of thunder later...  On a brighter note, Got a new replacement monitor and it's quite nice.


----------



## Baymule

FINALLY!! We got RAIN! We went to sleep last night, lulled off by the sound of falling rain. So nice! My rain gauge  was broken off by a neighborhood kid, so don't know how much rain we got, but it rained for hours! Gotta get another rain gauge!


----------



## greybeard

I hope it misses me. Rained a little about 24 hrs ago but I don't need any more right now and later in the week and next week look to be 'wet' anyway.


----------



## babsbag

We haven't seen rain since a few days before Thanksgiving. While I love this weather it doesn't bode well for next summer.


----------



## Latestarter

Ended up with 1.25" and rained from ~5-5:30 until a bit after 3am.  Been a gray day all day with the "threat" of falling moisture but didn't feel any... more like fog. Tomorrow I guess a chance for a little off and on sun then more rain forecast starting tomorrow night and through Tuesday.


----------



## misfitmorgan

We have been having a lot of rain for the last week or so......hopefully we dont get anymore any time soon.

read rain as snow...shhhh

Glad you got the desired rain LS!!


----------



## Pastor Dave

@Alaskan, my 4 yr old son knows my rabbit does visits the buck now and then.

My 7 yr old son has been told(when he asked) that the buck and doe visit for babies to arrive. He asks if the buck is married to a particular doe, and I tell him the buck is married to all the does. He doesn't have a concept for polygamy. Haha
So, he asks if a doe is married to the buck when he sees them together, and I say that at that moment they are.


----------



## Bruce

Hmmmmm. That boy is gonna be mighty confused in a few years!


----------



## Pastor Dave

Probably. Just my luck!


----------



## Alaskan

yeah....

I asked the kids just what it was I was teaching them, with all of this goat breeding, and the youngest (just to rile me mind, he does know better), pipes up with "you are teaching us that daughters should have sex with their fathers."  

Yeah....

That half ND I was mentioning. .. only buck small enough to breed her.... is her dad.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Dog breeding and livestock. Gotta love it! Farm kids learn a lot not being in the city. Responsibility, hard work, improvisation, common sense, where food and water comes from, the birds and bees, and the list goes on and on. 

Street smarts is important for going off to school and any business you may have to do, but I have always said I think it's easier for the country folk to adapt to city than city slickers trying to adapt to the country.


----------



## Latestarter

Al, your youngest is going to give you fits in time. He bears close watching that one... very close!   ETA, line breeding is a common thing as long as it isn't done repetitively over multiple generations. From my understanding, parent to child (either direction) is better than sibling to sibling.


----------



## Bruce

Alaskan said:


> yeah....
> 
> I asked the kids just what it was I was teaching them, with all of this goat breeding, and the youngest (just to rile me mind, he does know better), pipes up with "you are teaching us that daughters should have sex with their fathers."
> 
> Yeah....
> 
> That half ND I was mentioning. .. only buck small enough to breed her.... is her dad.


  Darn good thing your children are all boys!


----------



## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> Al, your youngest is going to give you fits in time. He bears close watching that one... very close!   ETA, line breeding is a common thing as long as it isn't done repetitively over multiple generations. From my understanding, parent to child (either direction) is better than sibling to sibling.




   he is a hoot.  I have a couple of other trouble makers too.  Reminds me of some of the wise cracks I subjected my parents too.  



Bruce said:


> Darn good thing your children are all boys!



I do keep wondering how in the world parents who have kids of both sexes manage.  

I have all 5, ages 9 to 19 wedged into the same 12x12 bedroom.


----------



## Latestarter

Alaskan said:


> I have all 5, ages 9 to 19 wedged into the same 12x12 bedroom.



I simply can't imagine... How in the world do you avoid weekly world wars?  And I thought your oldest was off to Seminary? Is he back? change his mind? Or are you just saying that when he is there...


----------



## misfitmorgan

Alaskan said:


> he is a hoot.  I have a couple of other trouble makers too.  Reminds me of some of the wise cracks I subjected my parents too.
> 
> 
> 
> I do keep wondering how in the world parents who have kids of both sexes manage.
> 
> I have all 5, ages 9 to 19 wedged into the same 12x12 bedroom.



Well if you like my parents as long as you have at least two rooms...boys in one girls in the other....pile them up


----------



## Baymule

Alaskan said:


> I have all 5, ages 9 to 19 wedged into the same 12x12 bedroom.



And they are all still alive? My older (8 years difference) sister and I shared  a room and we fought constantly.


----------



## Mike CHS

My son got to go out on a day family cruise when I was stationed on USS Forrestal (aircraft carrier).  I took him around to our berthing compartment and pointed out that 25 people slept in a space not much bigger than his bedroom.  It didn't make him complain less about room size over the years but that didn't make me stop reminding him that he had seen cramped.


----------



## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> I simply can't imagine... How in the world do you avoid weekly world wars?  And I thought your oldest was off to Seminary? Is he back? change his mind? Or are you just saying that when he is there...



seminary is still his longterm goal... but seminary is like graduate school... so he has to finish college first.  He is in his first year of college.  At this point he wants to stay home for his 2nd college year too (so much less money, and he likes being home), and then for the last 2 years he will go to Anchorage so that he can be a part of a big parish.

the kids are actually really good all together.  They used to share mattresses. 2 kids per mattress when they were little... so the fact that everyone gets their own mattress now is a big upgrade.

The younger kids were actually sad when the eldest was gone for months last year, they enjoy each other.

In this house grumpy boys have more work to do.  

also, the house is big enough that they can all scatter and be alone during the day...if they want to.


----------



## Bruce

Hard to get into trouble when you can't get out of the room


----------



## Latestarter

Mike, I was returning from a Med cruise on the JFK and they offered family cruise so (male) family members could come to Naples Italy and meet us there and ride back to the states with us. No females on war ships back then. Anyway, my dad and cousin flew over and rode back with us for the 10 day trip. They had all sorts of stuff planned for them during the trip and they really enjoyed it. Don't know if they still allow that sort of thing. We also did the day length family cruises But at that time I had no family close enough to take advantage of it. I did manage to get both parents and a brother onboard for a full day long tour (outside the "allowed" areas) when the JFK sailed into Boston Harbor for the tall ships.


----------



## Bruce

Hmm, that isn't the sort of cruise most people think of when they hear Mediterranean Cruise!

Did the guests get to hotrack?


----------



## Latestarter

Nope... they (guests) had berthing space set up all for themselves in a section of the Chief's quarters.


----------



## Bruce

So they didn't get the real "warship experience"


----------



## Alaskan

back when I knew someone in the coast guard... 

The coast Guard ship would take all family and friends on the 4th of July across the bay to the little town of Seldovia (no road access), so we could partake in their festivities. 

Great fun!  Jousting in kayaks, a parade,  etc


----------



## Mike CHS

Chief's quarters on Kennedy weren't too shabby and I slept there more than a few times.


----------



## greybeard

Berthing compartment for engineering on a Spruance class tin can wasn't bad either, considering all ya did there anyway was S.S.S.&S.


----------



## Latestarter

One great thing about the Kennedy was we never had to worry about fresh water. She was built keel up as a nuc and changed to conventional fuel after the evaporators had already been installed.


----------



## Latestarter

The last rain we got a couple days ago dropped 1.75". With the 1.25" we got a day or two before that, the ground is still very soggy. I'm glad to see that they've adjusted our forecast lows following the cold front passage up from the low 20s to the low 30s. I waited till today to go cut up more of the blow down for firewood, hoping the ground would dry out a bit more. I really don't want to tear up the pastures if I can avoid it. I am now restocked with enough firewood for ~4-5 days. Hopefully like last time it will carry me through the coming cold spell. The last one (cold spell) I never turned the heat on and just used the wood furnace. Got down to the high 60s in here by morning but after re-loading the stove with wood was back up to mid 70s in no time.





 





HEB is having a really good sale on meats that ends on the 24th.   I wish I had seen it before my trip to the VA yesterday... I would have stopped on my way home. So I figure it will cost me about $32 in gas to go there tomorrow but I'll save $100 or more with what I buy. So looks like I'll be road tripping it tomorrow. There are limits on amounts, so I'll do one round then go get lunch and maybe go back for seconds. No store card involved so just need to use a different cashier. I'll have enough meat to carry me through the summer. Hope the freezer doesn't die.


----------



## Latestarter

So I was on here dreaming big and looking at/pricing out Gulfstream G550 aircraft. They are 2 pilot required aircraft, so I couldn't pilot it myself (alone), and they are a bit pricey... Brand new they start around 48-50 million. You can get some good deals on low hours air frames in the 2010-2013 year group... ~20-25 mil. I'd consider the newer/bigger G650, but new they start @ ~65 million before add-ons/upgrades. Even used ones are more than a new G550. The extra 500-750 mile range isn't worth that much to me. I would consider the much smaller Cessna Citation X... much smaller aircraft and 1/2 the range... but also much, much less expensive. A 2008 model is ~ 6 mil and brand new you're looking at ~25-30mil depending on upgrades/equip. Hard to imagine but they are more expensive than a Boeing BBJ (737 private jet ). 

Maybe I'll dream about mega yachts tomorrow.  Remember... I did state dreaming. So when I can afford both of those, I'll need to start looking for ocean accessible property with deep water frontage and large enough for a 6000' runway for the jet.  Now if only aviation jet fuel and marine diesel fuel were pretty much the same, I'd only need to buy one.

Anyway, I heard a clap of thunder. So I figured the rain must be getting ready to commence (2:30am). So I went out to check and see if Mel had heard it (of course he did... silly me) and remembered I had taken out a ribeye to grill. I had also taken out a small container of my frozen spag sauce (my urologist told me I should eat lots of tomatoes... good for the prostate). I told her that I don't care for them raw. She said they're not as good for men raw, they're much better for men cooked. I guess cooking them enhances the good chemical present... so win-win.   I love home made spag sauce & just made a huge batch for the freezer 

So anyway, I didn't feel like cooking a steak in the pouring rain tomorrow, so I just finished eating it (3:00am). It was very good and Mel is sleeping off his portion (the scraps). The rain started just as I brought the scraps outside for him. The goats launched into the shelter, because of course any goat owner knows, they are deathly afraid of getting wet unless close to starving (like really starving, not thinking they're starving). So no more thunder, have seen no lightning, but rain has been passing over off and on in waves. Hasn't become the steady downpours expected yet. The biggest band is just south of me at this time but there's much more stuff coming up from the SW. Gonna be a wet one tomorrow looks like. I really need to get some wet stuff boots and a rain coat.

So almost 4am and though I'm not all that tired, not even yawning, I suppose I better go try to get some sleep. Gonna need to feed goats inside the shelter tomorrow morning is my guess.


----------



## Mike CHS

Hope you were at least able to catch a few zzzzz's.


----------



## Bruce

You need to start dreaming of tractors Joe! Not a lot of use for that Gulfstream or mega yachts on the farm.


----------



## Mike CHS

Way back when I was flying I wasn't getting enough flight time to remain proficient so I voluntarily grounded myself after making some silly errors the last time I flew.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Joe, I might be able to make you a good deal on a single seater ultralighter aircraft. It has a gocart engine for taxiing, and I would imagine could be procured for under $5000. You could surely take off and land from one of your pastures or maybe the road leading to your driveway


----------



## Pastor Dave

One of my pastors when I was a teenager had been a comnercial airlines pilot. When he left our church, he went back to it for a while. I know the money had to be much better than ministry, but the calling came around to him again and he went back to the pulpit and is still there.


----------



## greybeard

Pastor Dave said:


> One of my pastors when I was a teenager had been a comnercial airlines pilot. When he left our church, he went back to it for a while. I know the money had to be much better than ministry, but the calling came around to him again and he went back to the pulpit and is still there.


A real Sky Pilot.


----------



## Latestarter

Yup...we've had some rain. Right now the training has moved north of me. I have streams running across my property and down my driveway. And just as an aside, AT&T and DirecTV are a bunch of liars, frauds, and thieves. They make promises and then don't deliver on them. If you do biz with them, get it in writing and have a lawyer verify it. Don't accept anything they tell you verbally as the truth. vent complete.


----------



## Bruce

Remember Joe you DID say you needed rain. One must SPECIFY how much though 

Sorry you are having trouble with AT&T and DirecTV. Is it related to cost of service after the first year or something?


----------



## Latestarter

Haven't checked the gauge but we def got some rain. Still have little showers passing over at the tail end of the front line. Heaviest stuff is now north and east up into Arkansas, and stretching east all the way to PA and NJ. I did drive to HEB today. Got some really good looking meat. Saved ~$70.00 on the shopping and the gas cost me maybe $30... so $40.00 net. Just finished my dinner, a big old bowl of pasta and home made sauce. 

My goats were happy to see me but they are less than thrilled with the weather. I think food might have had something to do with the happiness. I've turned the heat back off in the house and fired up the wood furnace. Glad I was able to get another load of wood ready yesterday. Wasn't getting any done today, that's for sure. Temp is already dropping and it's ~40°f right now and expected to be down in the low 30s with highs tomorrow mid 40s. Looks like no sub freezing till Sunday and Monday nights. At least it's supposed to be dry.

OK, so I ventured out to see and I got 3.5" of rain. While out I noticed the wind has really picked up and I swear it felt like I was getting hit by snow flurries.  The goats are (or were) all nestled in their hoop house. I threw down a bunch of new hay in there. Alright... that about does it for me today. time to go veg. Hope everyone is ready for the long weekend and Monday holiday. My son and his family should be leaving Vegas on the 26th so should be here early morning on the 27th.


----------



## Pastor Dave

We have had DirecTV and Dish Network, and they both liked to bump up prices every so many months without reason or warning. This was after the intro period. We got rid of them both  and go with our local telephone co. They offer fiber optics, Wi-Fi, security services, and tv. It is pretty dependable in bad weather too. They didn't raise our fees until 2 yr contract was past. Then when I noticed it, I renegotiated with them. They are also a co-op with a board and meetings, so can voice complants if necessary.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It has been pretty soggy for the past several days here, too. We got 2.5" on Wed and 3.6" today....the cold front is to come thru around noon tomorrow and temps will start dropping then, but suppose to be dry...thank goodness. Hope your DS and family have safe travel and a great visit. That rain could be timely if ya are still planning on doing some fencing with his help while he is there. I could use putting up a few more stretches here, but until I know that we're staying I'm not doing anything else.....


----------



## Latestarter

So I only slept like 3 hours yesterday night. No naps as I drove to Carthage.Went to bed early as I was tired. Woke at 2am and added wood to the fire, then came online to check only to find my firefox would not load. It says it's running but I have no browser window. Ended up having to delete the program and reinstall an older version to be able to use it. So though I still have all my bookmarks, all the passwords that had been stored no longer exist  So I have to find them and re-enter/save them each time I go to a bookmarked site. Guess I can't complain too much, at least I have a browser window again... I really dislike IE.


----------



## Mini Horses

I see you are having the DISH experience ---  not fun!!!  After months of problems & computer shop proving MY equipment was fine & upgraded, the DISH people conceded that the 10 yr old equipment was at fault.   WOW, been telling you that!  So yesterday I was "gifted" all new wiring, modem, satellite.   WHAT a difference -- like a rebirth.  Cuss 'em out & they will eventually hear.   

Hope you have a great time with your kids visit next week.


----------



## Bruce

Sounds like you should get some months of reduced cost service @Mini Horses


----------



## Baymule

We have Direct TV. We also could get a AT&T land line, but we use our cell phones. AT&T doesn't offer internet in our area, so I don't want their durned phone line. They have since purchased Direct TV and the price went up. We have AT&T of cell phones. We use Hughes Net for internet and it is ok. When you live "out" there are no winners. You just get the best you can get and deal with it.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> When you live "out" there are no winners. You just get the best you can get and deal with it.


Yep. All the time you hear about competition keeping prices down. Um, not in a LOT of places because not only is there no list of cable companies to choose from, in most places there isn't even the one that exists in some places. I guess we are lucky, we have 15M DSL on the phone line. Could get satellite but it isn't any better and we have to have a landline anyway, cell signal pretty much skips over our house. We can sometimes get text messages ... if the phone hasn't drained the battery looking for signal.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have decent DSL service over our land line here.  We had to have a landline because of needing internet for our security system when we were only here a few days a month.  Our TV comes via a 50' antenna and Netflix so happy with that.


----------



## Bruce

Our TV comes from ... oh wait, we have no TV service.


----------



## Mini Horses

I still have an old TV with one of the "boxes" the gov gave everyone many years back......yep, working.   Don't watch TV enough to justify expense of any service.   Do love having my computer work and not cut in and out, half load, etc.   Sure makes my work reports zip along!   

Credit on the bill??  Right!!  Not holding my breath.  When I discussed new equipment in Spring they wanted install fees, contracts and all that, over $200.   This update had none of it, same monthly cost.   I can live with that.

The installer did mention he hadn't seen a monitor like mine in years.  Told him it was like me -- old and working great!


----------



## Latestarter

Well, the day has arrived. Nothing special here. Merry Christmas everyone. Hope your day is awesome.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Merry Christmas to you! Hope you have a nice day!  We are just hanging out as a family at home today-no extended family gathering.


----------



## Mini Horses

Back at you LS...same here with my day.   Gift taken to GD & now done.  They are going to see the DD/GD...

I'm off all week  hope to have weather that allows me to do some things on my list -- outside -- and carrying things to dump, to shelter donations. Just stuff I've not had time to do when they were open.    Plus have some new programming to learn     Will almost be like I'm "retired"


----------



## Pastor Dave

Merry Christmas Joe


----------



## Mike CHS

Merry Christmas Joe - quiet here also with just a neighborhood breakfast and small gift exchange.


----------



## farmerjan

Merry  Christmas also.  Dinner tonight with my son and some friends.  Leaving to haul some water now that it is above 32.  Wind has been wicked.  Possible snow/winter weather coming  end of the week.  Then I will be ready for spring after that LOL.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Merry Christmas!


----------



## Bruce

What did Mel get you for Christmas Joe?


----------



## Alaskan

warm slobber.


----------



## Bruce




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## farmerjan




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## Latestarter

He does have the Pyr drool, but generally it's only when there is food involved. He has very gentle kisses you can barely feel.


----------



## farmerjan

Latestarter said:


> He does have the Pyr drool, but generally it's only when there is food involved. He has very gentle kisses you can barely feel.



AHHHHHHHH


----------



## Alaskan

Our Pyr didn't cover us with drool...
 but the windowsill!!!!

   Nasty thick paste that removed the paint.


----------



## goatgurl

that's to funny.  marco is the drooler here, Katie has to much class for such things.  JJ and emma don't drool but they keep the windows in my car covered with wet nose art.  gotta love 'em.
hope you are having a good visit with the family LS.  to blessed cold to do much fence building tho.  have fun


----------



## Latestarter

Not a happy start to my new year. Saturday started coming down with flu. Honest to goodness flu, which I haven't dealt with in many decades. Spent the last 24-36 hours in bed. Thought about heading over to the VA ER, but didn't feel up to the drive and there's not much they can do for the flu once you've got it anyway. It has been accompanied by a bladder or UT infection. Life is fun. The kids left early, this morning, as there was no sense in them staying and maybe getting what I have. Was a good visit, but short.

So wishing everyone a very Happy new year, good health, prosperity, and happiness.


----------



## Mike CHS

Sorry their visit got cut short but Happy New Year Joe and hope you get well fast.


----------



## farmerjan

Sorry for your flu.  Please keep it in Tx as I could not deal with that and having 5 nurse cows in the barn and hauling water....

Hope your visit was good but short and that you are getting over it soon.  Hope  the New Year will continue on the up side from here.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sorry ya got such a "bug" there Joe, sad the visit wasn't longer, and wish ya the best in the coming days, too!!


----------



## Hens and Roos

hope you start feeling better soon!


----------



## Bruce

Sure hope it is a 3 day and not a 5 or 7 day! Bad enough to be sick, worse when you feel so crappy you can't even get up to eat.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all. Starting to feel a little better now but hadn't eaten anything real or substantial since Saturday evening. Spent basically 2 days in bed. Finally had a bowl of home made "poultry parts" soup with rice and noodles this evening. I believe it's gonna stay inside for a while and not pass right through. Was actually up and out of bed most of today. Have animals to tend to, so not much choice. Next 4 days are supposed to be highs in the 40s and one low 50s. That will be nice since my outside hose bib (spigot) is frozen solid so had to haul 5 gallon buckets of hot water down to the goat trough. Night temps will still be teens/20s though, so still quite chilly... Mel and the goats don't seem to mind it all that much... They just do what they do.


----------



## greybeard

I drain the hose each day after I use it, to the water troughs, and put the insulator over the pipe that comes out of the ground with the faucet and put an empty protein tub down over the faucet. It's currently 21F and if I needed to, I could connect the hose and run water into the troughs right now.  You do need to also insulate the standpipe that comes out of the ground tho. 
http://community.homedepot.com/howto/DiscussionDetail/Insulating-Outside-Fixtures-90650000000GvWa


----------



## greybeard

This one, with the plastic tub turned down over it has sustained 19°F without icing up. 
The pvc pipe coming out of the ground (on other side of the wooden support post)  is insulated with split foam insulation. Probably adequate for most winters thru out  East Texas.


----------



## Latestarter

So I was feeling "good" enough to go to the VA today and visit the ER. Long story short, they wanted to admit me. Doc said I was a very sick man. Said when he discussed me with his team and they asked how I looked he had to reply "like ****". I thought the truth refreshing as that's probably nail on the head. I told them I couldn't do that as I have animals to care for that can't thaw their water. With hesitation and multiple requests for assurance and promises that I would be back there tomorrow morning (after feeding and watering of course), they provided me the paperwork to sign myself out against doctors orders. The thing is... had I stayed, they would have done nothing but hook me to monitoring equipment including the customary hourly BP cuff activation, that would make me uncomfortable and keep me awake all night with no further testing to occur until tomorrow morning anyway. 

Aside from the flu... Diagnosis of raging UTI with very "dirty" urine and acute renal failure. IMHO this happened as a result of the past 3-4 days of flu and not from something that would be progressive and everlasting. What followed was many blood draws, a pain injection, 2 ltrs of saline and a 1/2 ltr of IV Antibiotics. I willingly confess/attest that I have had no problem processing or draining said liquids and in fact presently am having bigger issues with digestive issues   not having eaten anything substantial in almost 4 days, coupled with a couple opioids for pain during that stint, I'm sure caused that discomfort. Doc said he didn't care if I ate... just pound Gatoraid. Anyway, I'm anticipating that things should be back on their way to normal by tomorrow. 

I was told I can't drink any tea, it's a diuretic and they want me to rebuild my body fluids. Drat, that's my go to drink. Told me to pound Gatorade & I told them I hate the taste so they said then do Poweraid as it tastes better. I bought two 1 quart bottles on the way home and have started on the 2nd one. I hope I don't have to make this my new go to, but guess I could get used to it over time if left no alternative. I started with the blue... I'm now working on the orange. I did stop and have a nice juicy (greasy) Wendy's qtr pound double stack with cheese on the way home. Way filling, but way delicious, still digesting no doubt, no other food anticipated. Really want to have this other Poweraid gone by arrival there tomorrow.

I'll let ya know later tomorrow. Had expected to pay the tax bill when I got back home... too late for that.

On another note, GB, what are you using for underground water supply pipe to your pasture and how deep have you buried it (figuring for cow hoof weight sinking down to it through mud)? 

I had planned on using this for an actual hydrant: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-2-ft-Bury-Depth-Frost-Proof-Yard-Hydrant-EBYH02NL/205031731
I don't want to have to bend over too much or get down on hands and knees if I don't have to. Since it's steel, I can also weed whack around it easily and (hopefully) not have to worry about animals breaking it.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> On another note, GB, what are you using for underground water supply pipe to your pasture and how deep have you buried it (figuring for cow hoof weight sinking down to it through mud)?



8-10" deep--maybe. 
Code here (such as it is), says 18", but when they were piping my well to the house the county inspector laughed when we asked him how serious they were about that.  "Man, NOBODY around here buries water lines 18" except commercial applications, not even myself"


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks GB. Did you use white PVC or the black rolled stuff?


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Thanks GB. Did you use white PVC or the black rolled stuff?


Both. Transitioned off the roll pipe to PVC above ground--they make some sharkbite type adapters to go to pvc. 
I don't need the whole place piped for water...have lots of natural water on most of it. Just have a couple of 10ac pastures near the house that needed piped for fresh water. 
Nothing to burying the rollpipe either. Cap one end, tie it good, up close to the back of a single moldboard plow behind a tractor, drop the 3 pt down and take off plowing.  About half the soil falls back in behind the moldboard and you are pulling the rollpipe right thru loose dirt. 
Probably won't work too well if you have rocks--I don't.


----------



## Alaskan

@Latestarter so sorry for your woes.  Hope you perk up soon.

That kind of hydrant in the photo you showed, is the kind we have. ..  we haven't yet busted it, so they must be tough.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Dang Joe!!...ya sure gotta take care of yourself over there, hope things get better for ya and ya can get back to feeling normal again....course this weather doesn't help much. Our lines here are about 1' underground and have never had problems. If ya do use PVC as your up pipe, then cover it with the split pipe insulation and put 3-4" piece of schedule 40 or galvanized over it about 8-12" and the weed whacker won't tou h the up pipe at all.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Man, Joe you gotta take better care of yourself! I was gonna tell you to stay hydrated when I found out you had the flu, but you said you were on an upswing with it, so figured you were. Kidneys, liver, and bladder no things to mess around with.


----------



## AClark

Latestarter said:


> Not a happy start to my new year. Saturday started coming down with flu. Honest to goodness flu, which I haven't dealt with in many decades. Spent the last 24-36 hours in bed. Thought about heading over to the VA ER, but didn't feel up to the drive and there's not much they can do for the flu once you've got it anyway. It has been accompanied by a bladder or UT infection. Life is fun. The kids left early, this morning, as there was no sense in them staying and maybe getting what I have. Was a good visit, but short.
> 
> So wishing everyone a very Happy new year, good health, prosperity, and happiness.



Sorry to hear Joe, I was right there with you. Dec 31st until Jan 3rd I had it too. My oldest boy started out with it 2 weeks ago, and we thought it just missed everyone else - nope, me, my other son, and the baby all had it over New Years. I'm still not 100%, but I don't feel like I'm going to die anymore. The baby never got over 101, but my sons and I hit 103F each. I still have a nasty cough that isn't dry and feel like I've busted all my ribs from the coughing. Not as bad as you, but I also didn't eat anything for days, yesterday was the first day I ate anything.
I hope you're feeling better today. This flu bug was no joke at all, and like you, first time I've caught the actual flu in many years.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks everyone, I went back today and did another round of IV fluid and antibiotics. Kidneys are back square in the safe range (as I expected they would be). I'm sure there was damage done, but it shouldn't be significant. Though they are back to processing right, they are not back up to normal processing speed. Nor is my digestive tract. Just got settled after returning and completing daily chores. Dinner so far was ~1.5 cups of cantaloupe cubes with just a touch of sugar. I bought ready shredded salad making to have as well... maybe later. Just to tired to deal with right now. Anyway, wanted to give a quick update.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

YOu might want to see if that salad has romaine lettuce-
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/...ng-any-romaine-lettuce/#.Wk7FCto_Df4.facebook

So sorry you are sick. That’s terrible! Glad you are doing a little better.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Only having 1 kidney, I know abput those type problems and the best ya can do for them is cranberry juice....the straight cocktail type is best, but if it is mixed it is still better than other things....if ya just can't handle the cranberry taste....there are cranberry capsules in the vitamin section at WallyWorld. The juice works faster and better, at least 8oz per day while problems exist. I drink it everyday as maintaineance, but with only 1 a problem can progress quickly and become very serious...so, I err on the side of caution....


----------



## Baymule

I am glad that you are feeling better. Getting sick is no fun, dragging yourself out in sub freezing weather lugging hot water to your animals doesn't do anything to contribute to your recovery, but it must be done. At least today it was in the 40's and sunny. Tonight back to 25, tomorrow night low of 30F then back up above freezing. Hang in there, no more water toting. 

You are likely to feel like crap for awhile, even after you are "well" from the flu. Take it as easy as you can. You are retired, you don't have to be anywhere at a pre set time, so relax and get well.

Bummer that your family visit was cut short. Bad weather and being sick, sorry that you didn't get to enjoy them longer. 

when you are dehydrated you can mix your own electrolytes. 5 spoons of sugar, 1 spoon of salt, stir in a glass of water and sip it. Don't guzzle it, it can come back up if you are queasy. It isn't a Coke vanilla ice cream float, but it isn't any worse than Gatorade.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks for the heads up GW. I don't really care for romaine so don't buy products that have it. Good thing considering my recent "luck" right? I'd be the first Texan to find a bad batch.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Yeah, that was my thinking too 
It’d be dumb luck, but after everything you went through it would be terrible IF you were to get sick from it!


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Sorry you weren't feeling well! 

Hope you are back to feeling better!


----------



## babsbag

Glad that you are on the mend. Renal failure is nothing to take lightly.


----------



## Bruce

Goat Whisperer said:


> YOu might want to see if that salad has romaine lettuce-
> http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2018/...ng-any-romaine-lettuce/#.Wk7FCto_Df4.facebook


Oh swell!!! 
I JUST bought a head on Wednesday as it is the only kind of lettuce DD1 likes. 
And I'm in Vermont
Fortunately haven't started into it yet, guess it will be going out in the trash today 

But timely info and my thanks, I'd rather throw away a few dollars than get e coli.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad to hear you are starting to feel better!


----------



## Latestarter

Talk over on BYC is that the "romaine scare" is a bit dated as the issues were like over 5 weeks ago and nothing since. I think also it was a specific supplier issue, not nation wide. Thoughts are that it may be scare mongering by a competitor?


----------



## babsbag

I had romaine salad for dinner tonight. But it is still all over the news. Two small children (siblings) in our area are in ICU with e-Coli, one is in kidney failure. They haven't said yet if they ate any lettuce or not.  This is ONE of the reason I won't sell raw milk. Can't see or taste e-coli.


----------



## greybeard

babsbag said:


> his is ONE of the reason I won't sell raw milk. Can't see or taste e-coli.



Raw milk? That's so passe'.
I unknowingly let a king's ransom get by me back in early Sept when Hurricane Harvey was here, but I'm getting prepared to cash in big time on The Next Big Thing..

Going to be collecting all the food grade plastic drums and 330 gal totes I can for the next time it floods here and collect as many thousands of gallons as I can. All the new age beatniks, 21st Century hippies and Hipsters and those "Keep Austin Weird" folks are going to be plopping down their debit cards, sending me bitcoins, and hocking their iPhones for my product.

_Greybeard's Raw Water! All Natural--right from Nature's own clouds. No preservatives, gluten free, gmo-free, no herbicides because it came across 160,000 acres of US National Forest meaning it wasn't exposed to any of those nasty chemicals we all hate--right folks? The only fertilize in that forest was whatever Mother Nature in all her splendor  provided thru her own carefully centuries old perfected eco system. You bet your bippie it's right, AND, here's what makes Greybeards Raw Water so much better than anyone else's:
This water wasn't contained within a little aquifer, any tiny  stream bed  or even a big deep river channel. Nope, folks..we here at Greybeard's would never  make water submit to such a horrible and cruel life! This water was allowed to freely spread out wherever it wanted to go. You got it; This here, is *Free Range Water*!! The best kind. (cue 'Born Free' music playing softly in the background) 

So get your orders in NOW!..a small non-refundable deposit ensures you can have all this wonderful all natural, free range, non-gmo, thirst quenching elixir your family can drink.  (did I mention it was gluten free?) You'll be the toast of the town, and your friends will pale in envy at the next social event you host. 
(supplies may be limited so act today!!)_


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> Two small children (siblings) in our area are in ICU with e-Coli, one is in kidney failure. They haven't said yet if they ate any lettuce or not.


That's a al shame.  I hate to,see small children get that sick!

This is an excellent reason to make and eat cultured vegetables/sauerkraut, and to drink Kefir and/or Kombucha.  I have been making and drinking Kombucha since 2012. I only had food poisoning once, after eating seafood at a local restaurant.  I drank a couple glasses of Kombucha and the food poisoning was only a bad memory. Needless to say, we will never eat there again!

I've been making Kefir since I started milking,the goats. Unfortunately, DH can't drink milk, as it give him gas. But, I try to drink at least one glass a day.  Our cats get about 1/4 cup of Kefir with each meal.  

I have been making sauerkraut on and off since 2013, DH can eat sauerkraut and loves it. When the kraut is gone, I save the juice.  He occasionally gets food poisoning, and I get the kraut juice out and give him a couple ounces, a couple doses of that and he is totally over the food poisoning.  Last year, a friend got a bad case of food poisoning, when she ate at a local restaurant.  I took her a jar of kraut juice, and within 2 days she was back to normal.

Eating and drinking cultured foods is great for the health. Our immune system resides in our gut, and when we consuming cultured foods, the good bacteria overcome the bad bacteria, allowing our immune system to flourish.

Anyone who is interested in learning more about making fermented/cultured foods, can check out Cultured Food Life at www.culturedfoodlife.com. There is lots of good info, and lots of recipes.


----------



## Devonviolet

CntryBoy777 said:


> Only having 1 kidney, I know abput those type problems and the best ya can do for them is cranberry juice....the straight cocktail type is best, but if it is mixed it is still better than other things....if ya just can't handle the cranberry taste....there are cranberry capsules in the vitamin section at WallyWorld. The juice works faster and better, at least 8oz per day while problems exist. I drink it everyday as maintaineance, but with only 1 a problem can progress quickly and become very serious...so, I err on the side of caution....


I have had WAY too many bladder infections in my lifetime. I can't take antibiotics, so have finally found ways to eliminate the infections without drugs. I know you are taking antibiotics, but I thought I would share what has worked for me and is safe to do while taking antibiotics.

I tried both drinking cranberry juice and taking the capsules, but it didn't work, to prevent or cure bladder infections.

I have tried many natural remedies, over the years, but in the end have found a very simple way.

First I mix up "baking soda water", which I take to alkaline my urine. Bacteria require an acidic environment to survive.

I heat 2 cups of water to near boiling, put that in a quart jar, add 8 tsp of baking soda & stir until dissolved. To cool it down, I add 2 cups cold water & stir. For the next week or so, I take 2 Tbsp of this in a glass of water three times a day (morning, noon & night).

Next I eliminate ALL sugar & minimize most carb intake. Bacteria thrive on sugar. The carbs/sugar we eat floats around in our blood & eventually get filtered out of our blood, by the kidneys. 

By eliminating most carbs, the bacteria don't have a lot of food to thrive on. Our kidneys filter our blood, and sugar is removed by the kidneys. That means sugar/carbs in our diet end up in our bladder. Bacteria have a party, when we eat carbs & have a bladder infection!

Finally, I drink LOTS of water! At least 12-16 oz every hour. That keeps the bladder flushed out, so the bacteria don't have a chance to reproduce.

It has been a LONG time since I have had a UTI, so it is really working.


----------



## Baymule

@greybeard you are screaming hilarious! That is so funny, but it's not too late. You could trap barrels of river water and label it hurricane water. Idiots would never know the difference. River water is non GMO, gluten free and free range also!


----------



## Pastor Dave

@Devonviolet, you're right. Apart from liking sauerkraut and cultured foods, I got some food poisoning back in June when my wife left on vacation and I ate questionable lunch meat. I went straight to ACV with "the mother" and diluted 2 Tb in abt 4oz of warm water. It began neutralizing it almost immediately. I felt fine by later that same day. 

My rabbits get 2Tb of ACV in each gallon of their drinking water. It is to help with UTI, GI issues and add vitamins, especially A.


----------



## babsbag

There are people in CA right now that are drinking "raw" water, it's a big hit and in short supply.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Talk over on BYC is that the "romaine scare" is a bit dated as the issues were like over 5 weeks ago and nothing since. I think also it was a specific supplier issue, not nation wide. Thoughts are that it may be scare mongering by a competitor?


It most likely was/is a single supplier but since they have apparently not figured out the source yet - better safe than sorry. Nothing says that there isn't still some of the tainted stuff in cold storage, it isn't like lettuce is picked and sold the same day. 
I mentioned to DD1 that I tossed the Romaine but bought some iceberg. Her response? "Iceberg is my favorite"  
Say WHAT?? Just when did THAT change?


----------



## Pastor Dave

At least you had recently purchased some.


----------



## AClark

Glad you are feeling better! Getting an IV sucks, but I always enjoy the mass amount of fluid you get from it, especially when you feel like crap from dehydration.


----------



## Latestarter

OK, it's 1:56am as I type. The outside temp is 22° with a wind chill of 9°f. There are still snow squalls passing through and we've got about an inch maybe on the ground. Tomorrow's high is supposed to be high teens, low 20s.

I have stupid/mean goats, and have had to go out there multiple times as there is one (CC-the youngest/smallest) who will not stay inside the shelter. And her mom, Dot has also become harassed and was outside quite a bit as well. The reason, as I've come to understand is that my herd queen (Bang-aptly named it seems) is extremely mean, and constantly butts the heck out of her and chases her down. The only thing I could come up with on short notice was to fasten CC to the inside wire (cattle panel hoop house) to keep her inside out of the snow and wind. She had a coat of ice crystals coating her back from being forced to stay outside the shelter   Dot was covered in ice as well. So after clipping CC so she couldn't leave, I stood back and watched for a bit to make sure there was no issues, then came back in the house.

A few minutes later I look out and the whole hoop house is shaking and quaking & I can hear a goat screaming bloody murder. So I get dressed and go back out with my head lamp on and stay far away but within range so I can use the lamp to see what's going on. Sure enough, there's Bang ramming CC up against the hoop house repeatedly.   So now Bang is physically attached to the hoop house inside as well. At the opposite end and facing away from all the others. Since restraining her (Bang), things have settled down nicely, all goats are inside the shelter and presumably laying down resting out of the blowing snow.

I'm kinda at my wits end with Bang. When I keep her away from the hay or pellets, all the others eat together just fine with very little fighting or anxiety. When she's in the mix, everyone is on edge and she continually tries to "own" all the food buckets, moving between them and chasing whomever is eating there away. She also chases them away from the hay feeder, and as I stated, she constantly chases and butts CC. I'm starting to see the same traits in her kids from this past spring, CB & CM. I think after she kids and I see what she provides, she's going to get sold to a home that either has very dominant goats, or none and wants a milk goat. I'm really getting fed up with her BS. For the next couple of real cold nights, I think Bang is going to be attached inside the shelter to keep her from running anyone else out. Maybe she'll get the hint?

The other night I was out there with them after feeding. RJ always is very friendly and comes up for back scratches and such. He tries to rub his head/face on me & I've done my best to divert this. So anyway, he started posturing and actually reared up at me. I grabbed his foreleg and planted him on his side and held him there till he relaxed/quit, then let him up. After a few minutes, it seemed like he was starting the posturing back up again, so I planted him again and this time I put constant pressure on his chest while I held him down. Since then, he has been much better behaved. Guess I'm going to have to keep a closer eye on him. I've also noticed that his bad scur has re-curved and is actually touching flesh so I'm going to have to cut it back/off very soon before it starts applying pressure.

Now 2:30, and temp is supposed to get down to 10° tonight and now saying high of 33 tomorrow then back down to 15 tomorrow night.


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## Bruce

Bummer. Sounds like Bang needs a personal stall. Isolation so the other goats can live peacefully.


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## Pastor Dave

I've got a gal or two at church that behaves this way too. Stirs folks up with their pushiness, and calm the time or two a year while on vacation. Tying them up seems like a good alternative.


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## Latestarter

I know I have it nowhere near as bad as you folks further north, but I thought I'd left this sort of thing in CO when I moved down here to nice warm TX. Since it's cold and wet, I'd considered doing the burn pile over there on the right, but it's still a little breezy, and just too danged cold to stand out there and monitor it.


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## Pastor Dave

I heard Houston and another big TX city in that area had school closings for snow.
We were out yesterday, and two hour delay this a.m. Our snow hasn't melted in between falls. So, we are sitting with abt 7" and drifting. The low last night was -3F, abd up to +10F today! Whoohooo! Heat wave. Supposed to climb this week to abt 50F on Sunday,


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## Goat Whisperer

LS- How old is Bang? Is she bred?

Some goats will go through this, when they are they seem especially mean to the other goats. 
The first year we had Mariah here (LM) she ended up shattering her 1/2 sister's leg. Our barn had plenty of room and was dry.
Mariah had been mean, but not this mean. But she was bred and was a hormonal brat.
She spent the next several months in isolation. She had her own stall and her pen. 

She eventually mellowed out. Same thing with our other doe Millie (we had to de-horn her). She is still the boss but doesn't go around seeking goats to harass. Right now everyone is pretty chill with each other, but someone will more than likely take Bang's thrown after she leaves...
We have a doe right now who is a spaz. Love people but has nervous energy around the others goats. They in turn feed off of that energy and terrorize her.  But they do at lease let her in the shelter.

Goats can be brats. I wish they would just get along!


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## High Desert Cowboy

Wow you got way more snow than we do!  I’m not sure what’s going on in the world where you’re freezing in Texas and I’m spending my afternoons in shirt sleeves.


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## Latestarter

Bang has been that way basically since she arrived. She has always been the herd queen. Of course CC wasn't born at that point. I believe that she is bred, and that may be the issue as she seems to be getting meaner as time goes by. All the adult does are starting to "show" some girth and I'm hoping for lots of twins and doelings when the time comes.  

Yeah HDC, what's up with all that? Seems these arctic fronts keep coming down east of the rockies and bottoming out way down here. You can take this cold and white wet stuff back whenever you've a mind to.


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## CntryBoy777

Well as ya know, I too experience the behavior of the goats too....but, only having 3 and plenty of room it is less of an issue. It is my understanding that offspring born to the herd queen have that immediate recognition within the herd. Their building having 2 different rooms sudsides some of that action and the tables in the 1 room allows all to bed down without too much difficulties. The experiences that I have had while owning them and not having a desire to milk is the reason I have decided to go with meat goats if we stay here and their interactions have placed me in the position that butchering wouldn't be as difficult, no matter how cute they are growing up....


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## greybeard

If Bang was a cow, she'd have done hit the highway or freezer.
I expect yearling bulls to get into shoving matches but they always leave the females alone in those little contests of strength.

Freezing rain/sleet so far here, most of the night but I think it's done now and lighter stuff to follow. (I'm about 150 miles south of LS, and 40 miles N of Houston)

For my neck of the woods:


> Today 01/16
> 90% / 1.3 in
> 
> Snow this morning will give way to lingering snow showers this afternoon. High around 30F. Winds N at 10 to 15 mph. Chance of snow 90%. 1 to 3 inches of snow expected.


Frozen gate latches and froze shut truck door isn't something I see often.
Cattle with icicles hanging off their hair isn't either.

I-20 at Canton Tx early this morning.


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## AClark

Latestarter said:


> I'm kinda at my wits end with Bang. When I keep her away from the hay or pellets, all the others eat together just fine with very little fighting or anxiety. When she's in the mix, everyone is on edge and she continually tries to "own" all the food buckets, moving between them and chasing whomever is eating there away. She also chases them away from the hay feeder, and as I stated, she constantly chases and butts CC. I'm starting to see the same traits in her kids from this past spring, CB & CM. I think after she kids and I see what she provides, she's going to get sold to a home that either has very dominant goats, or none and wants a milk goat. I'm really getting fed up with her BS. For the next couple of real cold nights, I think Bang is going to be attached inside the shelter to keep her from running anyone else out. Maybe she'll get the hint?



Athena was like this, but to the dog. At feeding time, she cornered Sadie and smashed into her several times - without reason. Sadie was coming over to me to get her dog food. I took Athena to the auction the very same weekend and sold her pregnant and all. I didn't want to deal with anything out of such a mean nasty thing. My kids were really wary of her too, as she'd posture and snort at them. She is not missed at all.

Sometimes, if someone just can't "play nice in the sandbox" they get their walking papers. It changed our dynamics so much just removing the two bullies that it works out better for everyone. All 8 goats in the dry lot will eat together peacefully now and get a fair share, instead of two pygmy jerks gobbling down twice the amount of feed they should be.

Have you considered getting that scur re-burned or banding it since it's causing problems?

We're matching you in temps but no snow here. Just lots of wind dropping the temp to negative miserable.


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## greybeard

Oh, and that "high around 30" ? It happened about 3-4am.


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## CntryBoy777

Our high today is 21° and a low of 9 tonite....windchills at 0 or below....we have 2.25" of snow here and possibly more on Friday.....and here I've been telling people for years that I lived in the South....guess it isn't far Enough south....
I'd wait on that burn pile til the melting starts and calmer winds, then light it up, any embers that may blow away from it certainly won't be of any issue.


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## Hens and Roos

we have a doe who is in the middle of the pecking order and likes to boss around those lower in the herd but bawls her head off when one of the herd queens(Rio and Melanie) get after her.

hope the weather for all of you doesn't get much worse, we currently have 20* and sunshine.  I know we had at least 4 inches of snow yesterday afternoon(waiting to see what the final amount is through last night) Stay safe!


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Our high today is 21° and a low of 9 tonite....windchills at 0 or below....we have 2.25" of snow here and possibly more on Friday.....and here I've been telling people for years that I lived in the South....guess it isn't far Enough south....
> I'd wait on that burn pile til the melting starts and calmer winds, then light it up, any embers that may blow away from it certainly won't be of any issue.


You are too FAR south @CntryBoy777! Our high today is supposed to be 24°F and the low over night 18°F, windchill 13°F. Supposed to be colder tomorrow night, 13°F true, windchill -2°F. We have about 4" of snow, hard to tell though with all the wind blow.


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## Baymule

My sheep all get a long with each other, no bullies.....jus' sayin'..... 

It is cold out there. We got 2" of snow. Don't worry, LS, it will be gone in a couple of days.


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## Bruce

Well you just screwed that happy barnyard environment Bay! NEVER say stuff like that! I made the mistake 2 weeks ago of posting that the 2 alpacas always poop outside. They have pooped inside EVERY DAY since


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## Mike CHS

We have been around sheep for a going on 8 years now and I have yet to see a sheep being a bully in an established flock.  They will pick on a new one for a short time but it doesn't take them long to blend in.


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## Bruce

So sheep are better than goats, right?


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## greybeard

Making sure the new one understands the pecking order is different than being a bully..I expect a little 'establishing order' thing to happen, even if i combine smaller numbers from different pastures into one group, but won't tolerate one being a bully every dang day.
OTOH, I have one, that lets every single cow I have push her around.  Her days are numbered, just as soon as her calf gets a little bigger. 
I won't keep bullies and won't keep thin skinned snowflakes either.


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## Latestarter

As I said, after she kids, I think she's gonna be gone. When I confine her away from the others, they all get along just fine without her. Depending, I may bottle feed her kids from Dot's milk, depending on how many kids she has, and eliminate her earlier rather than later. Will see... Maybe it's a pregnant hormonal thing... 

So there's a spot down back that I can't really see clearly from the house/back porch. So I'm down in the pen feeding the goats and Mel starts barking and looking down back. I see what appears to be a stump sticking up where there is no stump. Well, after a bit, said stump gets up and stretches fore and aft then saunters off into the back woods.   Another coyote! Guess he was out there trying to soak up some radiant heating from the sun before it set.

Got all the way up to 27 degrees here today. Anticipating the possibility of single digits tonight and may not make it above freezing tomorrow either. Tomorrow night is also supposed to be down in the teens, but after that I guess we start a warm up. Forecast for rain and 50's/60s by Saturday. Hope I don't freeze/break any plumbing pipes 

Hope everyone else is staying warm out there.


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## frustratedearthmother

Stoopid coyotes!  We've been hearing them closer than ever lately.  Glad Mel is alerting you!


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## Mini Horses

Pastor Dave said:


> Tying them up seems like a good alternative.



Not the church ladies!!  Won't work!  But, I won't tell you mentioned it.

Can work if you give her isolation.  If she has no huge benefits for you, sell her & enjoy the calm.  Do you think all the kids from this yr, herd size,  have made a difference in her?  There's always one or two who "rule"....even if you change the numbers and members...but, she's being mean!!  She's gone or isolated, your choice.

You know "how ladies are".  Hmmmm.....no real explanation



Bruce said:


> weeks ago of posting that the 2 alpacas always poop outside. They have pooped inside EVERY DAY since



JINX....ya gotta watch what you say  

So, your crappy weather is coming along to be my crappy weather tomorrow.  Thanks!   At least I  don't have work scheduled and plan to stay home & complain about it.  Been decent today, temps in 40s, will go to 30-32 tonight, snow tomorrow, upper 40's Thurs & upper 50's Fri/Sat.  I'll live.


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## Mike CHS

Our neighbor just up the hill killed a coyote the other day.


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## greybeard

I saw a poster at the nearest convenience store/gas station yesterday.
LOST
Reward.
(picture of a large canine)
"George is a family pet. Grey wolf with collar. Last seen.... blah blah blah"

Just what we need running loose around here.


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## Bruce

I suspect a loose wolf would get shot before the collar with name tag was seen.

Coyote @Latestarter ?? And it just sauntered off after a bit with Mel barking?? Cheeky devil. Looks like a critter you will have to remove since it doesn't heed Mel's warning.


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## Goat Whisperer

Mini Horses said:


> Not the church ladies!! Won't work! But, I won't tell you mentioned it.





Mini Horses said:


> Can work if you give her isolation. If she has no huge benefits for you, sell her & enjoy the calm.



The goat or the church ladies?!


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## Bruce

I'm pretty sure one would get in trouble for selling the church ladies


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> As I said, after she kids, I think she's gonna be gone. When I confine her away from the others, they all get along just fine without her. Depending, I may bottle feed her kids from Dot's milk, depending on how many kids she has, and eliminate her earlier rather than later. Will see... Maybe it's a pregnant hormonal thing...


Or genetic.  Don't know how behavior is with goats, but I and many others have seen offspring of cattle behave just as bad (or good) as their dam.  I've had high heads that their calves were just like their mommas and it's a definite cull factor. Docility (aggressiveness) is also one of the epds we look at.


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## Baymule

I sold a real nice mare because she terrorized my sweet old gelding, Joe. That's his eye in my avatar. I love that horse and being mean to him was the wrong thing to do. She went out of her way to bite and kick him, he was scared of her. One day a man visiting next door admired her and we struck a deal. Gone.


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## Goat Whisperer

greybeard said:


> Or genetic.  Don't know how behavior is with goats, but I and many others have seen offspring of cattle behave just as bad (or good) as their dam.  I've had high heads that their calves were just like their mommas and it's a definite cull factor. Docility (aggressiveness) is also one of the epds we look at.


With goats, I feel that most of it is learned behavior. I have had herd queens dam raise, and their kids would be bossy to the other goats.
But when the kids are pulled immediately they are completely different.

On my earlier post- the doe who was a jerk & broke the leg of another goat is actually the dam of the nervous doe.
Let me tell you, I was about ready to butcher this brat doe (not joking), but waited until after she kidded. She did calm down and is no longer an issue. This was her first pregnancy with us and I think she needed time to calm down.
Having many dam/daughter/granddaughter some traits are just there, but I'd say most if learned from their dam.

It seems does just go through a rough patch where they become total brats. Hormones play a big role.

Our bucks on the other hand... They love their herd! 
I had one out yesterday in the breeding pen. Once it started getting dark, the other bucks were screaming for him.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't keep the doe, just sharing a little of our experience. I don't know a whole lot about cattle, but after talking to our local cattle guys there is a huge difference. If she is disrupting the peace and the goats are constantly stressed than selling her might be the best option. I would recommend selling her with a kid, she will not bully her kid and you might be lucky & place her with a family that only needs 2 goats for milk


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## Devonviolet

We recently noticed that Falina was standing in the rain, and that Ruby wasn't letting her eat or stay in the goat shed.  I asked DH and he is pretty sure this just started since Ruby was bred. So it appears her bullying is more of a hormonal thing.  When we finally put Angelica in with the girls (after the wethers went to the butcher), she did not try to nurse, but has taken to hanging out with her Mom (Ruby), and most of the time, they are found cuddling in a corner of the goat shed. It's really sweet!

We couldn't have sweet Falina standing in the cold and rain. So, we put her in the back chicken run, where there is a nice size shelter, that we can put hay in, for a dry, warm place for her to sleep and relax.


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## greybeard

Goat Whisperer said:


> With goats, I feel that most of it is learned behavior.


Much of it with cattle is too. With them tho, the genetics and epds have been so well documented and studied over the last couple of decades, it's pretty easy to make a determination whether it's worth the risk of keeping a calf and if you have a closed herd and your own bull, it's also pretty easy to learn pretty quick which mommas are prone to raise a calf with 'bad habits'. Either way, whether learned or inherited, too often seem to never forget or be able to 'unlearn' some of these behaviors, no matter how good of an animal it may seem to be otherwise. 

No matter what the species, one unruly member of the herd can make the whole experience and endeavor a royal pita and really make you question why you still do it.


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## AClark

I'm with Greybeard with the "snowflake" momma's too. We had one mare way back that didn't discipline her foals at all, let them run amok. Her last stud colt was a total demon. Gorgeous, but just pushy and rude, and had a terrible habit for biting. She never had another foal and he wasn't kept, though someone wanted him as a stud and then couldn't handle him (a self-proclaimed "horse trainer") and he ended up resold several times as far as I know. I personally wouldn't have bred him because of the crap attitude, but he wouldn't have made a better gelding either.
At least with horses, bottle raising doesn't help much either. The orphaned colt we had was a demon too, mouthy and unruly. Of course, he was orphaned at 3 days old and because he didn't have a mother to kick the crap out of him, and as humans by the time they are a month old they are bigger than you, he got away with a lot. He ended up gelded because he got "too friendly" when he was fed, and he did end up making a nice riding horse. 
Herd dynamics are like that, with my horses, Trav and Belle (in my avatar) pick on the kids horse because she's just not a dominant mare. I feed the kids horse separately in the pen so she gets her feed, but she always has bite and kick marks on her. She's such a sweet thing and has her own role to play, as do the other two, so we have to work around it. If we had more space I'd get the kids horse a mellow friend and split them all up, which is what we'll do eventually. 

That said, if you have the space and inclination to move her with an equally bossy friend, she may do ok. Athena was nasty before she was bred, but that worked out well since I sold her and picked up the Boer/kiko does at the same time and she paid for 1. It wouldn't hurt to look for a trade on her either. Some things aren't worth the headaches though, and it's amazing how the stress in the herd relates to stress in the owner with having to deal with their crap too.


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## farmerjan

I'd put Angelica in with Falina for company and let Ruby be a grump by herself.  She doesn't deserve to have companionship with that attitude.
Also a good case to have shelters that are split so that one goes in one side and the other in the other side.  Sometimes an animal will go from one to another to just be a b###h  but they will find a spot they like best and then the others can go in the other side.


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## Devonviolet

farmerjan said:


> Also a good case to have shelters that are split so that one goes in one side and the other in the other side.


Actually, I've been wanting to tack a shelter onto the West wall of the goat shed, for just such a thing. Just last night I was telling DH we will have to do that sooner than later.

Also, as far as Falina being lonely, the way our runs are set up, They are adjacent to the goat yard, only separated by wire fencing. And at night, we open the gate separating the goat yard from the chicken yard, so the dogs & goats can walk around the entire back chicken runs. I asked DH & he said Ruby & Angelica spend a lot of time back by Falina.

ETA:   Falina isn't all that accepting of Angelica.  She has been known to head butt that sweet little girl for no apparent reason.  IDK, but it could have something to do with the fact that she is Ruby's kid.


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## Latestarter

YAY! Temp got up to ~32-33° today... long enough for the frozen hot water pipe to the kitchen sink to thaw out. Finally happened around 1pm. It's in "dribble" mode now to hopefully keep it from freezing again tonight. Temp is back down to 31 and dropping on the way to an expected 14° tonight. Mid 40s tomorrow with tomorrow night being the last sub freezing (~24°f) for a while.

In happy news, all the goats slept in the shelter peacefully last night without me having to tie any of them to the cattle panels. Less happy is that Mel was alerting off and on most of the night. Whenever he'd get down near the fence barking, of course all the goats would come running to him to see what the commotion was all about. After he'd stop, it would take a little bit for them to settle back down and go back in the shelter.

Dot butts CB & CM, which are Bang's kids. But she isn't mean to them and chasing them down to butt them into the ground or the fencing. Bang actually tries to corner CC and blast her. Just finished goat chores so they're good to go for another night.


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## Baymule

Sure glad that your water thawed out!


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## AClark

Ugh, the constant drip of the kitchen sink is so annoying, but necessary. Our outdoor faucet broke on us last night, it had frozen and split a seal or bearing or whatever is in those things (the pipe part that attaches to the Pex pipe for the house) luckily it only leaks when the faucet is on, but it's a lake out there from watering last night. I knew I should have gone out and wrapped it with the big roll of heat tape. We had to replace the same piece last winter for the same reason.
We are, as I imagine you are as well, welcoming the warm up for the weekend. Actually, we are welcoming summer, as we're burned out on hauling 5 gallon buckets out to the animals.


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## Baymule

Yup, tired of the bucket brigade here too.


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## Pastor Dave

Mine is on a smaller scale, of course.  I do a hot gallon jug of ACV diluted drinking water and a lukewarm jug of the same . These do 10-32oz. bottles. The hot is in case there is ice in the bottles and it can melt it to get it to lukewarm temps to drink. Sometimes I get lucky and they are already drank empty and don't need much thawing so use tbe lukewarm.

I carry a gallon bucket with lid full of hot water to thaw all the nozzles. A gallon jug of hot water to help melt the solid iced bottles from tbe inside, and a gallon jug of hot water to pour in a 5 gallon bucket to put the frozen bottles in to thaw once I pour hot water in the bottles.

Not a lot of carrying like y'all with your 5 gallon buckets and big hairy beasts, but a lot of work thawing once I get in to the shed.

I just ordered some neoprene beer bottle koozies to make a contraption to help insulate my water bottles. One slipped on from the top and the other from the other end that lets the nozzle protrude. I'll let you know how they work. Maybe someone has another technique...?


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## Bruce

I'm carrying water in (what I think are 2.5 gallon) cat litter "jerry jugs" with screw caps. Not as much water but also a lot easier to carry and half the weight. 5 gallons of water weighs about 40 pounds. Of course I don't have as many animals to water as some here.


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## Mike CHS

I have five 5 gallon jugs to haul to the far end of the field but I haul them on my tractor so I just have one trip at a time to make.


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## Pastor Dave

Anyone hear of putting a little black pepper in chicken's water to give them a little extra heat in the gullet?

A gal I know said her mom did that back in tbe 60's and 70's.


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## Latestarter

Never heard of that, but have heard about putting red pepper flakes for whatever reason...


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## Bruce

I can not imagine why putting a spice in their crop would add thermal heat.


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## goatgurl

hate that shabang is being a pia LS.  remember that she and dippin' dot are litter sisters and dot always was the meeker of the two.  it doesn't surprise me that bang picks on dots kid since she is low goat on the totem pole.  doesn't make it right but easier to understand.  six goats in that hoop house is kind of crowded and would create stress between them all imo.  did you ever get something to hook bang up while everyone eats like I suggested?  that will make for less tension at feeding time.  hope she calms down after she kids.
@Pastor Dave I've heard of folks feeding the red pepper flakes to chickens to help them stay warm, suppose to make them lay better in the winter.  not ever done it so have no clue if it works.  hopefully someone on here will try it and let us know.


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## greybeard

http://factorchickenpoop.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-truth-about-red-pepper-flakes.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4093037/


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## Pastor Dave

Idk abt red pepper flakes, but I guess they used some black pepper in the water to just make them feel a little warmer. The gal that told me is early 60's, and she was a kid when her mother did this in Winter time. Just curious if anyone else had heard this or done it.


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## Latestarter

Temps here have been above 60 all day. Almost 9pm and outside temp is still 61°f.  Anticipated low tonight is 58 with highs back up in the high 60s tomorrow. I kept the wood stove going today with the damper closed right down anticipating I might want to add just a little heat tonight. Looks like I'm going to let it burn out. I'm sitting here right now back in the computer room with a window wide open as it's now at 78°f in the house and I'm sweating. My how a few days changes things.

Goats are getting fatter... Gotta believe they've been bred.  Will try to get some pics next sunny day and let the guessing begin   No way the first can go much before 3/25 as that's when the buck was introduced, so still a couple months to go.


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## Baymule

It was warm here today too. At least when we get frozen weather, it never lasts long. Yes! We want pics of your goats!!


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## CntryBoy777

It sure warmed up here today too...it's 57° on the front porch at 10pm....the ducks were happy to get back in their pool. The goats were glad that the cold white stuff all melted overnite and they were able to scavenge for acorns....the frigid temps have set back the rye grass, so the warmer days should help it to recover some. The variety I sowed this year is suppose to recover faster than others, so we'll see if it does....


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## Pastor Dave

I know, I am hijacking Joe's thread, but how did Gabbie do with the frozen white stuff Fred?


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## CntryBoy777

@Pastor Dave it didn't slow her down....she enjoyed it and eating the fallen icicles that landed on the back porch.


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## Bruce

So Joe, how did your team do today? I'm sure you are dying to tell us


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## Mike CHS

I was hoping to see Brady get beat for a change but it didn't happen.


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## Latestarter

Was a tough game to watch. Was very close, but the D pulled it out in the final minutes. They'll be meeting Philly in 2 weeks for the Superbowl. I really expected the Vikings to win but they really got blown out. So everyone who's interested will have to wait a while for a Superbowl to be hosted by that stadium's home team. I'm enjoying it while it lasts... Brady and Belichick both will be history before too much longer... few more years, and after that I don't expect the dynasty to continue. We expect to lose both coordinators at the end of this season so will have to start over there as well. So maybe this is the "last best shot"...

On another subject, we had a tornado warning SW of me, down near @Devonviolet that was moving NE. It either went away or would have passed to the west/NW of me here. We've had a little scattered rain, but nothing huge. The main storm front kinda split as it passed over me then redeveloped after it had gone by. May get a little more rain as a lagging front line passes through but I think the worst is gone for me. Seems to be pounding AR and moving NE and E right now. January seems too soon to be having tornadoes...


----------



## Pastor Dave

I saw Virginia had the country's first tornado of 2018 tbe other day. When winter temps climb and fall, I guess it leaves tbe atmosphere capable of producing bad conditions. Indiana has had November, December, and February tornados, but not real sure abt January. I know it is possible though.


----------



## AClark

We had a tornado warning for the eastern part of the state yesterday. Warm winds and some storm blowing through there, I'm not sure if anything touched down (I don't think it did) but from the temps, it's about that time of the year for us.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Remind me what state you're in again, @AClark.


----------



## AClark

Oklahoma


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I'm enjoying it while it lasts... Brady and Belichick both will be history before too much longer... few more years, and after that I don't expect the dynasty to continue. We expect to lose both coordinators at the end of this season so will have to start over there as well. So maybe this is the "last best shot"...


Next year might be a good time to switch allegiance to a team from Texas


----------



## Pastor Dave

Thanks, I forgot @AClark


----------



## Mike CHS

I keep wanting to be a UT fan but they make it awful hard.  The new head coach that came from Bama will hopefully make a difference next year.


----------



## Latestarter

I do like Houston, and wouldn't mind rooting for them if the Patriots ceased to exist. Don't make it a habit of "jumping teams" and I've been following the Pats since the early-mid 60's. Would listen to the games on the radio with my dad, and watch on TV when they were televised (& when we finally got a TV). When you been following a team this long, it's hard to switch away from them. I really dislike the other TX team... sorry that.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Was a tough game to watch. Was very close, but the D pulled it out in the final minutes. They'll be meeting Philly in 2 weeks for the Superbowl. I really expected the Vikings to win but they really got blown out.


I did not expect the Vikes to win. I do like Keenum, but remember, he played for Houston Texans not once but twice and by now everyone knows their QB history. It's "Why my team sucks".

So, he goes to Minnesota. You know what they say.
'You can take the boy out of Texas but you can't take the Texan out of the boy'.......

I do wish him luck wherever he ends up next season in free agency, but that so called QB guru of a head coach in Houston has ruined him.
He'd been way better off starting his NFL career somewhere other than Baghdad on the Bayou.

I'm picking the Pats to win SB, and I'm glad they won Sunday. 
Deflate THAT, Goodell.


----------



## Bruce

Shows you how much I follow professional sports, I didn't even know there were 2 football teams in Texas.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Shows you how much I follow professional sports, I didn't even know there were 2 football teams in Texas.


there are the Cowboys, and then that group in Houston that is an NFL team in name only......


----------



## Bruce

Sounds like you are not a big fan of the Houston Texans @greybeard


----------



## greybeard

They are MY team. 
 Not a big fan of BO'B............ or General Manager Rick Smith.


----------



## Latestarter

So it's 50° and a bit breezy. Been having back complaints past couple of days, so no heavy lifting here. Snapped a few pics of the girls. Pardon the angles, had a pocket full of cookies to get them to come up and once done, no way to get them to turn.

First, here's my fat girl April She's 50/50 Lamancha/meat goat. She's always been this fat, so not sure if she's bred or not.





Here's Dot, and she was the first to get knocked up, the day RJ arrived 10/26 so should be the farthest along. She is much "fatter" now than she has been since last pregnant.




Here's Bang. Though she may not look like she's putting on baby, this was my skinny beyond belief doe and she HAS grown substantially.


 

Here's CB. Though she is young, she is almost the same size as her mother.


 

And of course we have to drop a pic of my 1st bottle baby CC, just cause she's such a doll 


 

No boy pics in this batch.


----------



## AClark

Good looking girls! Sorry I haven't posted much on here, it turned into a football discussion and I've never had any interest in football or know anything about it.
But, then you go posting pictures and I can oooohhh and ahhh over goats. I'm not sure what I think about Lamancha's. In a way I like how they look, in another way they look weird, but kind of in a good way. 
I didn't know you had that many goats, they are like potato chips, I'm always looking to see what's out there that I might want to add to my herd.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Looks like ya could be kinda busy over there LS....having more than the 2 to deal with this year....they are sure looking Good...sure hope your back starts acting right for ya the weather hasn't been kind to me either....


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah @AClark I'm a football fan... the only sport I follow anymore. I'll try to keep it to "herd" stuff going fwd.  Superbowl is coming up this Sunday then nothing of any real significance till next August. Yeah Fred... I've been following your posts. It's tough to be getting older. It's been said that youth is wasted on the young.


----------



## Bruce

The football bit is pretty fleeting @AClark and will be over soon. Just skip over that part 

I agree on the Lamancha's I think they'd be right fine looking goats if they had ears


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I've been following your posts. It's tough to be getting older. It's been said that youth is wasted on the young.


Um, I think @AClark isn't much more than half our age @Latestarter !!! She can't be old, what would that make US??


----------



## Latestarter

See, I think it's the lack of ears that makes them so endearing. When I look at Nubian ears, it seems kind of freakish to me. I do however really like Alpine ears... They just seem to have so much character. Straight out, straight up, or held back.


----------



## Latestarter

Bruce... Rode hard and put away wet? perhaps?


----------



## CntryBoy777

Injuries and "Events" that happen in life can age one well beyond their chronilogical age....


----------



## Bruce

Yep, I think poor @AClark is damaged beyond her chronological years. And yeah, she does ride herself hard. Can't count the number of times I read one of her "I barely did anything today" posts and went


----------



## AClark

Now that's a true story. I'm 33 as of last week by the way, lol. I am fairly beaten up though, I've had more broken bones that folks twice my age, not that I'm brittle or anything, just some really hard falls. Most of them horse related. 
See how that is? I love floppy Nubian ears, they look so stupid when they run (makes me think of Basset Hounds) that you just have to laugh, Boer's ears are just a slightly shorter version.


----------



## Bruce

Given I've only broken 1 bone, and that was just a chip off a bone in my hand, you have broken WAY more bones than this someone pushing twice your age.


----------



## AClark

Wow, that's lucky. I've broken my right arm in 4 places (3 different accidents, I tend to land on that arm) my left wrist, left ankle, left leg below the knee, fractured hip, torn ACL & surgery, 2 elbow surgeries, some ribs, my nose, and my right foot. Dropped a washing machine on the foot though, fractured all the bones right across the top, the left ankle was from falling down my stairs - long story, and my nose thanks to ex husband #1. 
I don't even count broken fingers, I've had more than a few, actually, left pinky finger sits about 20 degrees from my hand permanently. 
Age is catching up with me though, I do have arthritis in my lower spine and left knee.


----------



## Bruce

Gee @AClark it is a miracle you can still move at all! I think you should start taking better care of your self


----------



## Baymule

LS your family is growing! Some pretty girls there. Do you drink all that milk or have you tried to make cheese?


----------



## Latestarter

Gosh AC... that's a LOT of hard wear and tear on your body...  I've had one broken bone in my hand, a couple of chips I'm sure but nothing requiring doctor visits...

But then I've heard it's better that when your time is up you go out bent/broken and completely used up. I mean you only get the one go 'round, might as well use it to the fullest.

None are in milk right now Bay... They've been dried off. When I was milking, it was only Dot, and CC used most of what she provided the first month or so. This time around I hope to have more milk to work with and will most likely try out some cheese making. Thing is, with just me, I can only eat so much...


----------



## CntryBoy777

That's true Joe, but with Mel and some hogs ya could get rid of the excess fairly easily.....and may even find a few fine folks to sell it to....


----------



## Latestarter

The thought has been pressing my mind Fred. I think I'll build a hog pen and get a couple of feeders after the kidding is over when I know I'll have the milk available for them. The milk should hold out till they're about slaughter weight. And now, I just noticed the darkening sky and the time. The girls are gonna be screaming bloody murder at me for their pellets/dinner. Best head out and get them fed


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Latestarter said:


> So it's 50° and a bit breezy. Been having back complaints past couple of days, so no heavy lifting here. Snapped a few pics of the girls. Pardon the angles, had a pocket full of cookies to get them to come up and once done, no way to get them to turn.
> 
> First, here's my fat girl April She's 50/50 Lamancha/meat goat. She's always been this fat, so not sure if she's bred or not.
> View attachment 43069
> 
> Here's Dot, and she was the first to get knocked up, the day RJ arrived 10/26 so should be the farthest along. She is much "fatter" now than she has been since last pregnant.
> View attachment 43070
> 
> Here's Bang. Though she may not look like she's putting on baby, this was my skinny beyond belief doe and she HAS grown substantially.
> View attachment 43071
> 
> Here's CB. Though she is young, she is almost the same size as her mother.
> View attachment 43072
> 
> And of course we have to drop a pic of my 1st bottle baby CC, just cause she's such a doll
> View attachment 43073
> 
> No boy pics in this batch.


I really like April. Very solid! What type of meat goat is she crossed with?


----------



## Mini Horses

Well, the cheese freezes, as does the milk.     You can make a soft, quick cheese and use like ricotta.  Tastes great, easy, nice in lasagna.   My chickens love it all -- know you have none of those now.   Always ice cream to be made!

It's all good & fun, as well as work but, with only one person, yes it can overwhelm.   But, with the pigs, you feed goats and they feed the pigs......LOL


----------



## Bruce

Don't forget to totally close in the back of the truck when you bring those feeder pigs home


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Don't forget to totally close in the back of the truck when you bring those feeder pigs home


Bruce, you are BAD!!  you beat me to it

LS, you can freeze the milk for when they are dry. And it you make cheese, you can soak corn in the whey, sour it, and feed the pigs. Keep that good milk for yourself!


----------



## Latestarter

Goat Whisperer said:


> I really like April. Very solid! What type of meat goat is she crossed with?


 I really have no idea. I don't recall ever being told. Just that she was a cross. @goatgurl ? She is a tank and very difficult to move if she doesn't want to. She has always been the stand-offish one of the bunch. Recently she has come to the conclusion that getting a back scratch where she's too fat to reach, feels mighty danged good.  

Hence she has decided that I'm not THAT big a danger after all and she winds around my body/legs like a giant cat trying to keep her head as far away as possible while placing her haunches, back and butt within scratching range. I was rather startled earlier today while feeding as after a bit of scratching she came up and actually rested her head against my thigh for a bit and scratched her head against my jeans before turning away. 

She does NOT like it when I grab hold of her collar so while scratching her I've been really trying to do so around the collar and move it up/down her neck while doing so in hopes she will become less freaked when I do need to lead her someplace. The first couple of times I trimmed her hooves, she was near impossible. Thought she was going to rip down the cattle panels. Now, once I have her clipped to the fence she relaxes and lets me do her hooves. When done, she prances around like she's showing off a new pair of shoes. 

Ahhh Bruce & Bay... The back of the truck has never been the problem... It's _trailers_ and hogs (full grown) that I have/had an issue with. I try very hard not to duplicate previous errors of judgement/process... I had NO IDEA that a 250 lb+ hog could climb straight up a 4' grate in a moving trailer.   I know now!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Glad she’s calming down for you. Almost all of ours were bottle raised or completely spoiled as kids… sometimes it’s hard to walk through the herd, they aren’t very generous and expect you to walk around them. 

Sometimes that first year is a little tough, I bet they’ll really calm down after kidding. 

Have you tried goat meat yet? Her bucklings/wethers would be perfect to raise up for meat! I love stocky/growthy goats.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have really enjoyed some goat meat this year.  We are swapping some of our sheep meat for the goat.


----------



## Mini Horses

My piggies came home in dog crates   Obviously young ones.

(BRUCE -- u r bad to the core!!  )

In over 20 years, never had one of my goats butchered  although I've sold to butcher shops.   Maybe one day.   Right now I have 2 more roos to catch and pen so I can dispatch all 7 next week.   Other 5 are really PO'd at me right now!       I was walking in the grocery store looking at meats today, chicken in my hand & said WHAT ARE YOU THINKING????? Came home & began snatching them up.  Yep!

Hey, days are getting longer...we gained 54 minutes this month.  Egg laying is picking up!


----------



## Mike CHS

We have been 10-11 eggs a day consistently with 18 layers.


----------



## Baymule

That Super-Blue-Blood-Eclipse-Moon night before last messed with my hens. Yesterday I got TWO eggs! I normally get 20-22! Maybe they thought it was a Super-Blue-Blood-Chicken-Eating-Monster-Moon!


----------



## greybeard

It was the same old moon it always is. Poultry doesn't have a calander tacked up on the door so they don't know it was a blue moon. 
Hobos in the henhouse?


----------



## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> (BRUCE -- u r bad to the core!! )


@Baymule is my mentor 

I don't look specifically for "eggs per day" being fairly equal. If a lot of them lay one day, I know I'll get fewer the next. For instance Tuesday I got 8, Wednesday 2, yesterday 6. 2 so far today (collected at 11 AM).


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> @Baymule is my mentor
> 
> .


----------



## Latestarter

When doing cheese in scrambled eggs I've always used types of cheddar. American cheese on egg sandwiches. I have a bag of fiesta blend but decided to use mozzarella in the scrambled eggs. Pretty good.


----------



## CntryBoy777

If ya like pork sausage ya can always fry some up and chunk up the slices and put them in with the eggs before ya throw cheese on top....bacon works too.........


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> American cheese on egg sandwiches.


Try provolone or muenster instead. Both melt well and are actually cheese


----------



## Latestarter

I use deli sliced white American cheese, not that processed, cheese food product spread, in plastic shrink wrap... Quite a difference. Never really been a big fan of provolone and kinda on the fence regarding muenster. Not a big fan of Swiss cheeses either... Too "dry/hard/don't know..." Used to really like some of the French spreadable/soft cheeses like Brie.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I use deli sliced white American cheese, not that processed, cheese food product spread, in plastic shrink wrap...


Phew! I guess it is fair to say that when I think "American Cheese" I do think of the "slices" of "plastic cheese" that are actually not sliced at all but poured onto plastic to make "slices".

I'm not big on Swiss either, too "tangy" for my mouth. DW likes it though, her "go to" is Jarlsberg. It is OK in fondue though - Emmental and Gruyere.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Okay, I'll give everybody a "Shake your Head Moment"....most of those I have never heard of....or have, but never tried. The "Like" cheeses on my list are Cheddar, Mozzarella, Edam, Gouda, Swiss, Colby, and American. I have tried Muenster and couldn't swallow the bite I tried. Most of these are the ones I grew up on, but the bulk in my life have been the Mozzarella, Cheddar, and American. Mom used to buy the big 5# loaf of American that ya had to slice yourself and the others were in blocks that had to be shredded by hand....guess whose job that was.....
....of course there were Cottage Cheese, cream cheese, and Parmesan, but never had the stuff that has to be grated. The one bite of Muenster has me fearful of trying others that I don't know....so, I've always stuck with those I know and have ate a ton of them.....


----------



## Bruce

I wonder what it was about the muenster you didn't like. It isn't a very strong cheese and is a big favorite at my house.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Not really sure @Bruce it was many yrs ago and my Mom had bought some cause she liked it....I just remember it made me gag....that was before I graduated HS, so in the early to mid '70s.


----------



## Latestarter

Dang Fred... that was so long ago, I'm surprised you remember it. I mean it must have been a pretty horrendous experience. Maybe you should try it again if you get the chance... just to be sure. Tastes change after you hit 60.

OK, Congrats to the Philly Eagles on their first Superbowl championship. I'm very unhappy at the moment, but the Eagles out played the Pats and the Pats made too many mistakes and bad decisions. Not excuses, just reality. The Pats did not deserve to win... I see Tom Brady playing 2 more years max and then retiring with no further Superbowl appearances. Next year they'll be starting over from scratch with a new OC & DC. They had a real chance to set the bar where it would be virtually impossible to ever be reached again. <sigh> Oh well, 

Hate to admit it, but I had reached football saturation several days ago and hadn't paid much (like zero since Thursday) attention till the game tonight.So, I figure a couple of days for withdrawal then I can put it all aside till next Aug/Sept.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya know what they say Joe....all good things must come to an end. We never really want them too, but time and life just keep on rollin along. 
I might given the chance, but I'm not buying it to find out....


----------



## Bruce

So did the Eagles fans rip up the stadium and streets (in MN and Philadelphia)? Or were they able to contain their joy in a non destructive way?


----------



## Latestarter

No idea.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, the (heavy) rain was supposed to stay south of I-20 but it seems the weather didn't get the word. It's pretty much lined up just south of I-30 and it has been raining here since mid day from light to heavy with thunder and lightning. From what I can tell, it seems Fred has gotten his share and the worst of it is just about to start on Mike. At least no tornado warnings (for me) this time. Haven't checked the rain gauge... but we've gotten some for sure. With all the mole tunneling my yard is like walking in quicksand. Never sure how far each step might sink.

I looked out back as I tend to do quite frequently, especially during real cold or wet weather, and there was CC, standing against the shelter, outside, in the pouring rain. Of course I know the reason... Bang decided that she shouldn't be inside, out of the rain.  So I pulled on my flannel shirt and trudged on down to the shelter. CC followed me right inside, where of course she would have much rather been. I returned Bangs favor and made her stand out in the pouring rain for a bit of time so she could enjoy it like CC had. I then took a clip and clipped her collar to an inside frame at the back corner of the shelter so she isn't moving anywhere, or pushing anyone out in the rain over night. She'll get released for breakfast tomorrow. Haven't seen anyone out in the rain since   If she were a mule I'd consider smacking her right between her ears with a 2x4. 

Went out to Chile's for dinner tonight and had an appetizer of buffalo wings and a 1/2 rack of baby back ribs. Mel went outside before I left, though he wasn't thrilled at the prospect. Not sure where he spent his time out there but boy was he happy when I got home and let him back in. He was running (and falling) all over the wood floors. Finally got him calmed down and his coat was quite wet, so he had to have been out in the rain for at least a little bit. He doesn't mind being toweled (massaged) dry   He was on the covered back deck when I pulled in the carport. Looks like he's gonna be holding down the carpet for tonight. Seems like the heaviest rain is just about past me now to the east. The rear line of the front/storms is now moving out of my county. Supposed to be cloudy and breezy tomorrow, high in mid 40s, then down in upper 20s tomorrow night. Used up the last of the firewood tonight. Glad it's started warming up (for the most part). My Bradford pear tree is about to bud.


----------



## Bruce

Sounds like, sadly, you need a second goat shelter out there so Miss B1tch can't force others out in foul weather. 

I bet next time it is raining and you want to put Mel out, he'll try even harder to hold the rug down


----------



## Baymule

We got the rain too. We babysat the two little grand daughters and took them home yesterday in the thick of the storm. It hailed on us going to DD's house, they got hailed on trying to get home. It is cold, wet and yukky today. Got to get the girls this morning but today they will have to stay in. 

Haven't looked at the rain gauge yet.


----------



## Mike CHS

I haven't looked at the weather recently but that must be a big cell.  We have had ran non-stop since yesterday afternoon.


----------



## farmerjan

Started raining here around midnight.  Temps in the 35-37 range but some icing is expected as it is supposed to drop another degree or two. We could get as much as an inch they say but I bet we have had near that much already,  with heavier rain expected mid-day then possible lighter to clearing later this evening.  
We need the moisture, but it is a mixed blessing because the ground is still frozen down a couple of inches.  It is very slippery from the mud on top and not soaking in due to the frozen ground beneath.  One good thing, I am not hauling water in this.  The spring has been keeping up with the cows the last few days since the snow/rain we got Sunday.  But, the cows keep coming to the water troughs up near the barn I had been filling because they are too lazy to walk down the hill!!!


----------



## CntryBoy777

It started here just after final rounds and rained all nite, we have water standing in several places and the ground is estra soggy....temps are falling now....down to 33. What about putting a barrier or 2 up in the coop? If there is more than 1 area to protect Bang won't be able to control the whole area very well....just a thought.


----------



## Baymule

We got 4 1/2” last night. ALL the sheep were crowded into their little shelter. We have a couple of guys starting on the roof for a bigger shelter for them this weekend.


----------



## Latestarter

Got right at 2" here. Sure seemed like more than that.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We ended up with 1.6" here....ducks are swimming in the field again....


----------



## Latestarter

Grats there Fred, you got post 4000!


----------



## Bruce

I bet he planned that


----------



## CntryBoy777

Not sure about the 4,000.....what?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@CntryBoy777


----------



## CntryBoy777

Thanks @Goat Whisperer ....I have honestly, never paid any attention to that....print is too small on a cell phone....


----------



## Latestarter

Didn't anticipate 400 pages of posts when I started the journal. Hope it's provided adequate entertainment value for those who've participated


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’ve officially read your journal! Whew! 

So, since CC and CB are with RJ, it’s safe to assume you’ll have 5 Does kidding this year? 

I really like Mel and his antics. Queenie loves to come in and make her rounds but hasn’t seemed bothered by the weather. I look forward to seeing what happens when he gets a girlfriend. 

I think your goats might benefit from a double stalled run-in shed (lean-to) if your barn is going to be too far off, especially with kidding coming and Bang’s mean streak.

Good luck on your pig adventures. We enjoy most of our pigs. Some stay more standoffish, but most learn to enjoy scratches and the treats/scraps/etc that we bring to them. 

I also wondered about finding someone to hay some of your ground (at least until you get it fenced) on shares instead of you spending all that time mowing it. They would get like 60-70% and you would get 30-40% based on the agreement. That would definitely cut down on your hay costs but you’d need somewhere to store it...

Looking forward to staying up to date!


----------



## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> I’ve officially read your journal! Whew!


I guess not being able to work has some advantages


----------



## Mike CHS

We did hay shares on our place last year but now that I have it all cross fenced that won't happen anymore.  It works out good for everyone as long as fences aren't in the way.


----------



## goatgurl

we did hay on shares here too and not only did db cut, bale and store it in his barn but he also delivered it.  win/win for me.
as I caught up with you I saw where you asked about april.  she is 3/4 lamancha and 1/4 combo of kiko, boer and Nubian so her kids would be 7/8 lamancha.  her mom was a big ole' gal who milked not quite 2 gal as a 4 year old.  
I would appreciate it if youall would send some of your rain up here.  it is still so dry here that our water resource lake is tasting funky and if we don't get our spring rains we're going to go on water rationing.  not a good thing for sure


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'd be glad to send some to ya @goatgurl it is as wet as a wedge of cornbread in a bowl of soup over here....and the mole/vole/chipmunk runs are above ankle high when ya step in them and then that clay wants to hold your boot for ya...it'll pull'em clean off the feet if ya ain't careful....


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Bruce said:


> I guess not being able to work has some advantages



I’m stuck in the recliner most of the time. Rest, ice, heat, repeat. 10# weight limit. Over it! I don’t sit still!


----------



## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> I’m stuck in the recliner most of the time. Rest, ice, heat, repeat. 10# weight limit. Over it! I don’t sit still!


Yeah that is hard on people who don't want to sit in front of soap operas all day long. How much longer are you restricted??


----------



## junkman

congratulations on you new herd,


----------



## Latestarter

So the last time I bought hay was a month ago today. I bought 12 bales. I had one unopened bale left so went and bought 10 bales today and opened the old one for the girls (and boys) when I got back and stacked it. You'd think I've been starving them the way they tore into it... Butting each other and fighting for position. It gets real bad when the fat one, April, decides she wants to stand sideways under the feeder to eat. Doing so, she takes up 3/4 of the feeder length and blocks everyone from access. Figured I'd better refill today before the wet weather starts. Supposed to get wet tonight and run through till Monday. got a few light sprinkles on the way there. 1 bale would not have been enough to cover till then and I didn't want to transport hay in the rain, get it all wet, then stack it. Problem avoided.


----------



## Baymule

Perhaps you can buy hay in the field next season and save some money. What are you paying a bale now? That's supposing you have the room to stack it in for winter. It always feels good to have hay put up for the winter. We buy a year's supply of round bales, our hay guy keeps it in his barn, then brings us one at a time.


----------



## Latestarter

Everyone around here leaves the bales in the fields. I haven't seen anyone nearby that stores hay inside. I have nowhere to store round bales or large square bales inside. I have to tarp them outside on pallets. I've checked Craig's List as well... It's how I found my present hay guy down in Gilmore. He imports small squares of alfalfa and that's the only thing so far that my girls will really eat. I've tried 2 other types including coastal and tifton and they just pick and pull it out onto the ground and defecate on it   Another month and my hay usage should drop as they'll be able to browse in the expanded pasture.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I offer hay in two feeders that are spaced diagonally across from each other inside. This allows everyone a chance to eat without anyone dominating a single hay feeder and I only have four adult Does right now.  Just something I thought you might want to try...or keep in mind for the future...


----------



## Baymule

Man, you got some picky goats! My sheep are delighted with grass hay. They get a large coffee can of feed, between 8 sheep and 6 lambs that are now crowding in for their share, simply because if I holler SHEEP! SHEEP! SHEEP!-they run to me. 

Maybe you could get one of those Harbor Freight tarped garages like @Devonviolet has for storing your hay.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> April, decides she wants to stand sideways under the feeder to eat. Doing so, she takes up 3/4 of the feeder length and blocks everyone from access.


The people that gave us the alpacas had 3 goats. No idea what breeds 2 smaller females, one larger male. When we were watching them for 2 weeks and it was "treat time", the male would do the same thing in front of the trough. The girls couldn't get near it unless we went in and leaned on him up against the wall so he only had access to one corner. 

I was also going to suggest a second feeder.


----------



## Latestarter

The only thing I can think Bay is that my goats are truly browsers vice grazers. Any kind of tree limb/leaves I give them is like candy to a child. They go berserk and even strip the bark. They just aren't interested in hay/grass unless it's all there is. That being the case, I can't understand why they don't eat the woody stems of the alfalfa. 

Hmmm problem with a second feeder is not only do I double the feeding space, but it will also double the waste.   That wouldn't be so bad if I was paying $3-4/bale, but I'm paying $12. I think it may also cause problems like I've experienced with adding additional feed bowls... The dominant ones run back and forth to each bowl trying to control all of them and end up dumping the bowls by stepping in them or kicking them. When I feed them their pellets, I have to basically stand in the center of the feed bowl wheel and make them stay where they first settle down at. I need to get in touch with Bay and set a time to go down and visit her so I can pick up the no climb horse fence she said I could have to build a 2 sided feeder for them. Then there will be two sides so they can eat with a little less interference. Same amount of hay, just more accessible.

The above dynamic is changing as well as RJ grows in size, weight and maturity. He is now challenging Bang and they've had a go several times. It's now getting to the point that RJ is sometimes driving everyone off and the ones he misses, Bang goes after. I kinda feel bad for CM (the wether) as it seems nobody wants him to share their bowl. Most of the time, he ends up sharing with his sister CB. They take turns trying to push each other away unless I stand right over them. But every time he's chased off he seems to make it a point of jumping into and through the feed bowls    I guess he figures if he can't eat any he'll do his best to deposit crap and mud from his hooves into the feed pellets.

So I've been trying to come up with alternatives... I've considered the hanging bowls that hang on the outside of the cattle panel so they stick their heads through and eat. I'd have to make some sort of "blinders" for either side of the bowls so the neighbor goat can't see what they're missing. When I give them their cereal treats which they have to stick their heads through for, the first one done (generally the greediest; Bang,) will take aim and ram into the side of whichever goat is where she wants to move to. Sometimes she'll ram multiples and try to "run through" the entire group. I really don't want need miscarriages or broken ribs/hips etc. I've seen a pic on here someplace where a person made individual walk in "cages" with locking doors so the goats had to walk in and get shut in where the feed bowl was at the opposite end, almost like a cattle chute/head gate. I don't have the room for anything like that, especially as the goat numbers increase.


----------



## Bruce

Gee Joe, you make goat raising sound so, um, interesting. Time for that big barn with suites for each goat!


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## Latestarter




----------



## Latestarter

Nasty day today...   frozen ice droplets hanging from anything metal that's off the ground. Ice in the water trough and dog's bowl. Wind blowing and high humidity. Just a cold raw day here in NE TX. Day is growing and temp is dropping... was ~30 when I got up and now it's 27. Nothing to complain about compared to what many here are dealing with... snow, ice sub zero temps, etc. I have noticed that the pasture is starting to change color and is getting "greener" every day. several of the trees here are starting to bud. Spring is on the way.


----------



## farmerjan

Seems unbelievable  the temps you are getting in Tx.  We are up to 53, never got below 46 last night and have had over 2 inches of RAIN.  This is Va, we are supposed to have WINTER, SNOW, that sort of thing.  The frost in the ground prevents the water from soaking down like it should.  The mud is so sticky, and makes walking so miserable.We were so deficit in moisture, and this rain has finally solved the hauling water problem.  BUT, now you can't get around.  We are having to feed all the cattle with the 4 WD big tractor because we can't get in and out of the fields with the trucks.  Hauling water was no fun.  But at least I could get in and out of the field.  Have never had it so muddy this time of the year.  Flood watches and warnings all over the area here for the next 24 hours.  More rain forecast for this next week and temps in the 30's to 50's with a few 60's in there.  Is this really FEBRUARY or did I miss a month or two on the calendar?????

Have had some groundhogs digging tunnels and they were undermining the ground around one of the feed tanks/bins.  Just got another 2 ton delivered when my son was getting feed for his big bin at the farm where we keep the weaned calves and the preg-due to calve cows.  So I got another 2 ton to help with the cost savings.  The bin started to lean and yesterday we had to run a chain to the one truck parked there that is needing some major work done to it; in order to keep the bin from falling over as the ground beneath it is sinking. So, when I get it emptied, we will have to move it and then rebuild the ground it sets on.  It'll be awhile before it gets emptied as I figured this would take me through to summer.
Always something.  I can't carry the buckets of feed through this mud to the barn where my nurse cows are with their calves.  Too much pain in the ankle and knee.  Normally I can drive the truck up to the doorway and unload several buckets into the metal feed can there.  But it has been getting muddier and muddier and now we have a monsoon?????  Guess I will have to get my son to help get some feed into the barn.  Carrying it in the bucket of the 4WD tractor a mile up the road to "my barn" .  Luckily I have a bunch of 5 gal buckets with lids that I can fill and take up there.   What a pain.  I try to take extra up there whenever it has been frozen or hard ground so I don't have to deal with the crappy weather but we just haven't had much hard ground in the last 10 days and so I am pretty empty up there.


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## greybeard

Muddy as blazes here as well. I can get around, but only if I drive very carefully. Been a wet cloudy winter and the under strata never really dried out from September's flood water sitting on it. 
The only thing I see budding out are the bradbury (non-fruit bearing) pear trees, and they are always a false indicator of spring's approach.


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## Mike CHS

Our ground is saturated like I've never seen it.  I'm able to get around the lane outside our fence but even my little tractor was making ruts a foot deep.  I've been using my neighbors Kawasaki Mule the last couple of days or other wise I would be hauling square bales on foot.


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## frustratedearthmother

Safe to say that I'm NOT alone in being over this weather!


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## CntryBoy777

It is times like this that I'm thankful that I only have a few animals to deal with and not a lot of feeding issues. I sure hope things will level out some...it makes me wonder how wet Spring will be this year....hope it isn't too bad cause the ponds, lakes, and reservoirs are filling now.
The sumac, blackberries, and oaks are budding.


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## Mini Horses

I'm maybe 4 hrs from farmerjan and -- thankfully! -- have better weather here along the coastal area, for now.   It's 72 right now, windy and off/on rain of the sprinkle type.   Enough to run you in for some work, fuss for other work and be happy it isn't a downpour!   Next 10 days mostly low 50 - upper 60, one day it's mid 40....so no overnight freeze!   YEAH!    Slight rain poss each day.  VERY slight.   Need to get those seeds in the starter cups - Spring coming.

Happy with that as I have a week off and want to get some things DONE!!   Been bad weather on days off past couple weeks, time to be improving.   Winds bad right now but, not tomorrow.  Crank up the tractor!    That's the only "muscle" I have to help me with  what I need to do.   It's great, no opinions or backtalk.    Then there's some messy work I am hoping to get done -- clean chicken coop deep litter, barn, etc.


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Have had some groundhogs digging tunnels and they were undermining the ground around one of the feed tanks/bins.


My sympathies. I finally got rid of the woodchucks last summer. Not that I expect it is a "forever" thing, I'm sure some new ones will find their way here, they are unwelcome destructive little bastards. 

Maybe since we had the really cold weather starting weeks early, all the heavy rain you are getting down south is also early and won't be continuing once spring does arrive. We have 30°F today, expecting some freezing rain and sleet later, then rain. Don't need rain but unlike @Latestarter's fields that are starting to show some green, ours sprouted more white the last couple of days so the rain will have somewhere to go other than to make mud. Supposed to make high 30's then drop again, down to 7°F Tuesday morning.


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## Baymule

At least with our sand, we don't have the muddy muck to deal with. But when it's dry, it's really, really dry.


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## Wehner Homestead

Everything is a muddy mess here! Everywhere you step, your muck boots squish down. Some of the chicken tractors are on a slope and it’s slippery...I really hope no one falls trying to care for them. The tractor made huge ruts in the pasture putting out bales today and covered a section of driveway with mud (between where stored and where entrance gate is) and MIL complained about it.  

I can’t help it. She aggravates me. DH doesn’t sit around on his butt and I didn’t until this injury. She makes it a point to comment on everything she thinks we should have done.  

I’m thinking this wet now may be telling us it’s going to be a dry summer. I sure hope not, but we will see...


----------



## Baymule

Nothing worse that a griping MIL. I am a MIL now and do my best to be a good one instead of the other kind!


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## CntryBoy777

I've been around a few people like that for many yrs in my life, and the best thing to do is let it go in 1ear and out the other....just act like a duck...let it hit those tight-oil slicked feathers and don't give a Quake....cause if they could do Better then next time hand her the keys....
I know....I know....but, life goes on and we do the Best we can with the conditions and tools available.....
I just hope we don't have a wet Spring this year....I hate starting out so far behind, because it seems to be a struggle just to keep up with stuff when the heat and humidity hits. I sure hope we can catch some dryness before it gets into the 70s....and they are saying we may hit 70 come mid week....the rye grass is starting to jump here and will grow above the water so cutting it could get interesting.....at least I didn't sow the whole field this yr, just what was fenced....
Sure hope the back and stuff straightens out for ya....


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## Latestarter

Seems to me in this particular case, it was her griping about her son... not directed at you specifically... But yeah. I hear ya & I feel for you!  Hope the back is improving.


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## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> they are unwelcome destructive little bastards



   well said...


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## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> and covered a section of driveway with mud (between where stored and where entrance gate is) and MIL complained about it.


She can carry them out by hand herself if she likes


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## Mini Horses

Ask the MIL --- What would SHE DO to feed, water, care for???   It will give you an idea or help her see there are issues to overcome!!


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## greybeard

I've had a good m-i-l, or 2. 

Joe, I enjoyed visiting with you today and sorry it was so short. Long drive tho. Maybe next time, the weather and ground will be more cooperative.. here or up there.
I'll get some pics and info on the hair sheep lambs my b-i-l has.


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## Latestarter

Thanks again for everything & for having me GB. I've done long drives all my life so 4 hours is a "walk in the park" so to speak. Thing is, since I have animals and no longer anyone else living with me to take over for me, I can't go quite as far or stay as long. Was great to finally meet you and I look forward to our next visit... here or there.

I look forward to the sheep pics & any "sales" info they might care to share... I'd need some idea what breed, how many for sale, what sexes, what they'd cost, and when they'd be available...

I really want to get back to the fencing, but it looks like we're slated for another 7 days of rain...  I might have to just deal with it and work in the mud.   The damage done can be rectified by the washing machine I spent all those $$ on and a hot shower after all...





ETA Though it was dark when I fed the goats this evening, the "ladies" are all building very low bellies and their bags are starting to show/develop.  Dot should be just about 5-6 weeks out at this point. The others will follow her lead.


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## greybeard

It's a good thing you came by yesterday. Slow steady drizzle with occasional showers since before daylight so far today. 
I sure won't be doing much outside today other than stretching some more ht barbless wire.


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## Latestarter

Yeah, I saw that coming GB. Primary reason I chose the day(s) I did... soonest available with least chance of precip. Of course it was STILL gray, cold, damp and overcast yesterday while I was there. Sun finally showed itself as it was going down during my return drive. 

It's gray, chilly, drizzl-ey, and just plain uncomfortable weather here today. Temp is 38°f with a light breeze and near 100% humidity, making it feel colder and very raw. The experts are saying high today in mid 40s and low tonight in low 40s but from what I'm seeing it looks like tonight's high might be above today's high. Supposed to be on a warming trend through mid week with Thursday being in the 70's before dropping back down again. No real rain right here at my place (yet), but the radar shows that's about to change. It's all around me and moving my way. I need to go out and get some milk and bread, pay the water bill, go to the bank, buy goat pellets, and I'm sure I'll figure out a few other things I SHOULD have done while out... once I return.  I broke into the new alfalfa hay I bought and I'm VERY displeased... It's too loosely baled and the flakes are like powder when you peel them off.  Need to finish the enclosure fencing (3 pastures enclosed/gated) and get spring greening started so I can let these little "munch"kins out to browse/graze.

So I got back from my road trip and went through all my mail I'd collected (PO box and mailbox) this morning. Lucky me... I have a jury duty summons coming up (better re-check the date... don't want to miss it). Also got a mailed toll bill for my trip to the airport to pick up #1 DD when she visited (first time out there, didn't realize I'd gotten on the toll portion till I was already on it). And to top it all, I got a mail out photo ticket for running a red light in Marshall while returning from the VA (back in Dec). I vaguely recall it and think it was a short cycle light and not enough time/road to stop safely. The  letter states that photographs do not constitute evidence that an infraction occurred, so I think I'm going to mail back requesting a hearing and fight it. The cost of the gas will be less than the $75.00 cost of the ticket. 

Unless of course they uphold the ticket and I end up paying for both.  Just pisses me off. I really, REALLY, try to NOT break the laws, especially the ones that have a higher risk of causing accidents. Running red lights obviously qualifies under that description. Driving a little over the posted speed limit doesn't qualify IMHO since if you don't do so, you become more of a hazard as nearly everyone else IS doing so. I REALLY hate the friggin camera happy environment that we live in. Maybe a world wide EMP would be a GOOD thing... except for all the other stuff we'd lose as a result, like electricity, the internet, vehicles... Speaking of vehicles... my 6 mo vehicle insurance is due the end of the month as well . Real tough to get financially "ahead" when every month brings new things to wipe out the finances.

Oh, neat thing... Didn't expect it but since I have the state sales tax ag exemption and use it every time I buy at TSC, they sent me a statement in the mail detailing out every purchase I made this year that used the exemption.   Now I wish I'd saved all the receipts from the stuff I bought elsewhere...


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## greybeard

Be aware, that the vast majority of those red light cam tickets are farmed out to a 3rd party (usually in Ariz or Ohio) and if you are late sending in the 'fine' you will get a bill for late fee which is often as much again as the original ticket. 
I fought one and won on the late fee part, since they sent both the original notice and the late fee notice to the wrong address, to the wrong name, in the wrong state. 
(There was no fighting the original violation...wife made a left turn on red, late at night in my truck tho there wasn't another vehicle on the roads that time of night)


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## Mike CHS

We keep receipts for everything we spend on the farm and livestock.  It makes a world of difference come tax time especially when you're building infrastructure.


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## CntryBoy777

I haven't had to file since '06 and I am terrible at keeping receipts....1 good thing about not having enough income to qualify to file....
I was looking at the 7 day forecast here and it seems we are going to be pretty wet during that time....just glad temps will be up and wet is all we'll have to deal with.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I vaguely recall it and think it was a short cycle light and not enough time/road to stop safely.


Those can be a bitch. And given that so many people think yellow means "go really fast" you have to check the rearview before you decide you are going to stop. Then how do you argue you ran the red to avoid a rear end collision from the guy behind you who ALSO ran the light. Only it was already red when he got to the intersection. 

Good luck on the jury duty thing. You haven't been in TX long enough to deserve a "punishment" like that!


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## greybeard

I always look forward to jury duty. 
It's dry, it's warm and you get paid for doing your duty while watching AND participating in  one of the workings of a democratic society.


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## Latestarter

Yeah, so I called the number on the ticket and asked the guy about the statement on the form that says photographic images can not be used as evidence. He said it states that because it might not have been me driving. Asked if there was any additional fees to ask for a hearing, he said no, so I said I want a hearing. He said they'd mail out with the date/time and I'd rcv a call. Several hours later I get a call from AZ... some gal asking me all kinds of questions so she could determine if/when I could get a hearing. Said she'd call back, but never did.  The fine or mail back for the hearing is due by the 25th. Said if I haven't heard about the hearing by then, to contact them back for the details. IMHO it's just one more police money making opportunity. Taxation and all that. We really do live in a police state (country).


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I always look forward to jury duty.
> It's dry, it's warm and you get paid for doing your duty while watching AND participating in  one of the workings of a democratic society.


I don't know about TX but "paid" isn't exactly what I would call it, $30/day here. Minimum wage in VT is $10.50/hr. Lots of employers can't afford to pay someone to not come to work and are not required to do so, that civic duty can be costly. 

And as discussed here or elsewhere (I don't recall) the only time I've been called it was in CA 40 years ago when I was in college. Had to go EVERY weekday for a MONTH, no summer job that year. Most of the time was spent playing cards and reading books. At least when my wife was called here, it was 1 day a month for, I think, 6 months and there was a number to call to see if they were pulling juries that day. No need to show up if they weren't.


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## Latestarter

This one I got was for one day. Was supposed to call after 5pm the day before to see if I was required to be there. I guess it would have been a yes as they did have to sit a jury according to the clerk I spoke with. But enough folks showed up that thy didn't "miss me". I asked was I in trouble and she said no, no biggie, just shred the summons and wait for the next one.


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## Bruce

One day isn't bad, as long as you have enough notice to plan for it.


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## greybeard

First one I was ever on was for almost a week. (Monday morn-Sat afternoon)
Most recent one was 3 weeks active and standby for 2 months. (grand jury)

A small price to pay.


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## greybeard

greybeard said:


> First one I was ever on was for almost a week. (Monday morn-Sat afternoon)
> Most recent one was 3 weeks active and standby for 2 months. (grand jury)
> 
> A small price to pay.



In both cases, the summons came via mail about 3 weeks before I had to report.


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## CntryBoy777

The first time I was on jury duty I was laid off of my job and was collecting unemployment....jury duty was 3wks and pay was $10/day....it interupted my payments and I had a wife and a daughter to provide for....I had to refile after it was over and was called back to work 2wks later before the checks returned. I was thankful that Mom and Dad helped me over the hump, but I never got upset about serving, just the timing of everything wasn't very favorable.


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## Baymule

I have never been chosen for jury duty. I've been called many a time, but never chosen. Even when I WANTED to be chosen, I was not picked. 

Joe, we better be glad that we have the rain now, come July or August, we'll be crying for rain. It keeps me cooped up inside, but I am not complaining.....much. LOL

Waiting on baby goat pictures.


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## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> The first time I was on jury duty I was laid off of my job and was collecting unemployment....jury duty was 3wks and pay was $10/day....it interupted my payments and I had a wife and a daughter to provide for....I had to refile after it was over and was called back to work 2wks later before the checks returned. I was thankful that Mom and Dad helped me over the hump, but I never got upset about serving, just the timing of everything wasn't very favorable.



Timing doesn't often enter in to justice.  One of the guys during the voir dire process stated he worked nights as a backhoe operator and wouldn't be able to serve and stay awake. Judge told him he better make some arrangements with his employer..he was self employed and he chose to work anyway. First day of the trial, the guy fell asleep and was replaced by an alternate. He made the mistake right before he left, of telling the judge "I told you I had to work nights" which got him a royal butt chewing in front of a full courtroom and tv cameras, as well as a fine for contempt. 

Democracy and all it entails requires each to make some sacrifices. 

There are worse things than jury duty for a week. I returned to barracks one Sun afternoon in North Carolina, and found a notice in the squadbay for the entire squadron to report to embarkation the next morning. 3 days later, I walked off a plane onto the tarmac of Danang air base Vietnam and stayed there a year. I was single, but there were plenty of married guys in the squadron with me.


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## babsbag

I dread the thought of jury duty next year and I seemed to get summoned once a year. This year I honestly forgot the date on summons number one so when #2 showed up I called and asked for a postponement and a date in Dec...they gave me a date in Oct... close, but no cigar. Fortunately I was only there one day and not chosen for a jury. I am not sure how I am supposed to milk goats and be on a jury since I have no employees and goats don't wait. I may have to be a fugitive.


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## greybeard

Here, the very first thing they do in the big 'pool room' is take roll. When done, the judge hands the list of missing to a bailiff and a bench warrant is issued right then and there. It was the same way in San Angelo when I was called for US district court jury duty. They take it pretty seriously. A summons is a legal order. Penalty for failure to show in US District court IIRC, was up to $1000 fine and/or 3 nights in jail. Bench warrant meant at the very least, next time you got stopped for traffic violation, went to renew dr lic or re-register your vehicle, you would be up sheet creek. 

It's pretty easy to get out of jury duty but I doubt a judge is going to buy the "I need to milk my goat" excuse. He'll likely tell you to do that before and after court. 
In 2 years, I'll be beyond the age of having to report, but will anyway. 
Been a lot of years since I wore the emblem in my avatar, but I still recognize and appreciate what the word 'duty' means.


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## Latestarter

I need a few days of sunlight.


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## babsbag

@greybeard  I don't mind being called but I am asking that they accommodate me and call me during one of the months when I am not milking.  Milking 40 does is not quite the same as milking a few for personal use. I have a bulk tank that holds one days worth of milk. So that means that the milk has to be pasteurized and bottled or cultured the same day it is milked or early the next day before milking again.  This will no longer be a hobby but a full time job, 7 days a week but of course it is not likely that a judge will understand that so just call me during Dec. or Jan. and I will be glad to come and serve.


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## babsbag

@Latestarter and I need a few days of rain. Our major cities are already back on the drought schedule for landscape watering...odd or even. I am going to have to start watering my orchard...in Feb.


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## Mini Horses

We've had overcast & off/on drizzle for several days, sunny tomorrow and then 5 more days of same stuff.  It's just depressing without sun!   It's a little messy with the rain, too. 

Complain, complain     Could be a LOT worse.  Temps are good!


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> @greybeard  I don't mind being called but I am asking that they accommodate me and call me during one of the months when I am not milking.  Milking 40 does is not quite the same as milking a few for personal use. I have a bulk tank that holds one days worth of milk. So that means that the milk has to be pasteurized and bottled or cultured the same day it is milked or early the next day before milking again.  This will no longer be a hobby but a full time job, 7 days a week but of course it is not likely that a judge will understand that so just call me during Dec. or Jan. and I will be glad to come and serve.



Yes, I can see where that would present a major inconvenience and disruption in your schedule and occupation, but unless California is different than Texas, Louisiana and Tennessee, occupational needs are not an exemption or even a cause for postponement of jury duty. More than 1/2 the people in the District court's big pool presented job requirements as a cause for exemption and about 1/2 way thru those, the judge stopped to explain that duty came when the court needed jurors, not at the convenience of when people wanted to serve. 
Maybe California is different tho, and your job requirements will be allowed as a cause for rescheduling you later in the year. 
It would be nice I suppose, if we each could serve when we wanted to rather than when they needed us to, but the needs of the govt usually preclude that.


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## babsbag

CA will let you request a postponement but last time they ignored my request for a particular month. It can be hard on people that are the only income for their family or someone that runs a brick and mortar store with no employees, I had one of those too, and they did dismiss me. I told them that if I wasn't there the store wasn't open and the bills don't get paid. Maybe that was the benefit of living in a small town, everyone knew my store. I have a year to ponder this dilemma.

For years I didn't get summoned as my DH was a peace officer and in CA they won't call you.


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## Bruce

My summons while in college in So. Cal. was January I believe. I freaked of course but asked them to postpone it to summer. They did.


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> CA will let you request a postponement but last time they ignored my request for a particular month. It can be hard on people that are the only income for their family or someone that runs a brick and mortar store with no employees, I had one of those too, and they did dismiss me. I told them that if I wasn't there the store wasn't open and the bills don't get paid. Maybe that was the benefit of living in a small town, everyone knew my store. I have a year to ponder this dilemma.
> 
> For years I didn't get summoned as my DH was a peace officer and in CA they won't call you.



A spouse that is a police officer would probably be excluded during the voir dire process anyway..the defense would likely object strongly to that person being on the jury if it were a criminal vs a civil case..

Being a student generally IS an accepted exemption to serving on jury duty. 

Jury duty is never easy on any of us. Few civic duties are.


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## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> I need a few days of sunlight.
> View attachment 43787


ME TOO!!


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## Mike CHS

We are having spring like temps this morning and winter this afternoon.


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## Baymule

It got to 77 degrees yesterday. Supposed to go back to raining this afternoon.


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## Hens and Roos

We currently have 26 degrees here today.


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## Latestarter

Sorry H&R... We have land down here if/when you want to join us.  That being said, it wasn't all that long ago that we had temps in the low teens... Had to turn the AC on yesterday to get the temp & humidity down inside the house. Last night I turned it off completely. We finally got a few breaks in the clouds later yesterday afternoon. As Bay said, it brought the temp up to almost 80. It did allow the ground to dry out a bit but it's still like walking in a puddle of grease in the goat pen. It's nice in here right now at 70° We are however back to solid overcast, wind, and incoming rain. The front line is north of me right now and creeping south. I imagine that @AClark is seeing scattered showers as it is moving over her.


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## Hens and Roos

thanks @Latestarter but thinking we are way to ingrained here!  Besides we enjoy making maple syrup each year


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## Bruce

That @Latestarter, never gives up trying to get people to move to TX so they can help him with fencing


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## Hens and Roos




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## Latestarter

I don't hold a candle to Bay though... she even posts property for sale advertisements!  Just tryin' to imitate tha friendly Texan's manner.


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## Bruce

Yep @Baymule is a leader for sure.


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## Baymule

Just trying to be helpful.....if someone has a hankerin' for Texas, I like to give them options.  

today was a beautiful day, should have got outside and done back flips and got LOTS of stuff done, especially in light of the approaching rains for the next week or two. But I didn't. I went to the dentist on Monday and I think I picked up that stomach virus bug that is going around. By the time we got home, I was sick. DH woke up sick on Tuesday. Both of us were miserable. I made a broth with beef bone broth, tomato water and I simmered stew meat, intending to make stew, but all we did was sip on the broth. I finally made that stew today. 

And because my husband hitched a rode on the Crazy Train, we are going to pick up two pigs tomorrow that we don't have a pen built for.


----------



## greybeard




----------



## greybeard

Joe, I talked to my my b-i-l today. His  hair sheep are St Croix.


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## Latestarter

OK, thanks. thinking commencing.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> And because my husband hitched a rode on the Crazy Train, we are going to pick up two pigs tomorrow that we don't have a pen built for.


On the right track Bay, get the pigs then figure out how to house them!


----------



## farmerjan

Bruce said:


> On the right track Bay, get the pigs then figure out how to house them!


I thought that is how you were supposed to do it?  Get the critter, then figure out where it was going to be housed and how you were going to feed it....


----------



## Bruce

That is the proper way to get started with chickens, right?? After all, a coop is easy to build and chicks are LITTLE


----------



## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> I thought that is how you were supposed to do it?  Get the critter, then figure out where it was going to be housed and how you were going to feed it....


Worked ok for me and 1st wife when the babies started coming.........


----------



## Baymule

We picked them up in the pouring rain and brought them home. They are in the trailer with feed and water. I started a thread in Everything Else Pigs.


----------



## Latestarter

Waaaaa.....  Need some dry time!


----------



## MiniSilkys

Same for us in TN. I like the warm temperatures but wish it would get dry for my goat kids coming.


----------



## AClark

Late, we just started getting actual rain, more than a few sprinkles, last night. We are supposed to get more today and then get that cold front. It is quite welcomed, the grass fires have been pretty rough around here and we've been on a burn ban for awhile. I haven't seen if it's a swamp out yet or not.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Welcome @MiniSilkys  to BYH!
Pretty sure I haven't done that since Thursday. I was busy a couplafew days and Thursday was one of them.
I am a neighbor a couple states to the North. You might be close to @Mike CHS, but if you did an intro on here, I'm sure he already welconed you


----------



## Baymule

More rain. We sure need to get some things done around here.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We have to make it to Sun/Mon to get to the next break in the deluge...they have already put out River flood warnings thru a wide area here.....between 3-7" expected between now and Sat....thinking of going and getting a mask and snorkel before it starts later this evening....glub, glub....


----------



## Hens and Roos

we had rain yesterday, overnight and now on and off here-our creek is up to the top of its bank and we have standing water in our yard again-right now it's not as much water as a couple weeks ago but there is ice underneath-I may need a pair of ice skates!!


----------



## Latestarter

I wish this could all be "evened out" so those who needed it could get some... rain AND sunshine both... Well, for those who are about to get rained on, try to stay dry. For those needing water, I sure hope you get some soon.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> More rain. We sure need to get some things done around here.


For the last 3-4 days, it's been dreary and overcast with a LOT of wind but only an occasional sprinkle. Still muddy and soft ground most places but I was able to drive my 2wd pickup to the far side of the property late yesterday but only by being careful where I drove.  Wind is howling again today. I does dry the surface out a little and my long approach road to my house driveway has dried out considerably. I need to get a couple of loads of iron ore on that road but there's too much risk a 14 yard dump truck will break thru the surface and get stuck. If they do, they'll bill me for whatever it costs them to get it extricated. 14 yards of damp iron ore is very heavy.

Biggest problem here, is the under strata has never recovered fully from the Sept flood. We've had weekly rain ever since so the surface ground is really just 'floating' above a saturated under layer. Does make it pretty easy to dig post holes tho it is difficult to get the sticky cuttings off the diggers or back in around the post. Tee posts go right on down easy too.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, It's coming... Just getting into Dallas now... line moving east with the flow moving NE.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> We have to make it to Sun/Mon to get to the next break in the deluge...they have already put out River flood warnings thru a wide area here.....between 3-7" expected between now and Sat....thinking of going and getting a mask and snorkel before it starts later this evening....glub, glub....


Don't forget to tie a boat out for the goats and one for the chickens!


----------



## MiniSilkys

We have a beautiful windy day here, but the floods are coming tonight. Flood watches out for the mid south until sat. Our totals through Thurs here are expected to be 3-6in. according to channel 5 and totals through sat 10" according to channel 3. We have a creek that goes under our driveway with a culvert and the banks are washing out. We covered the side with a tarp hoping that will help. My goats will not step outside their shed doorway if it is raining more than a mist and it is hard to check on my expecting does with my buck underfoot. He thinks it is always mating time and he has horns.


----------



## Latestarter

Already received better than an inch. now between bands. but more to come for sure.


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## Wehner Homestead

The Ohio has flooded its banks. I’ll try to go by tomorrow and get a pic to share.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Don't forget to tie a boat out for the goats and one for the chickens!


Not a bad idea.........
btdt and was dang glad I did.



 

3 days later


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## MiniSilkys

Soo sorry for you. Every time it rains a lot here my chicken house gets ankle deep water in it, but the ducks don't mind. I hope we don't get that much water. What y'all get comes toward us most of the time.


----------



## greybeard

That, has happened once in my lifetime. Most around here call it a 500yr flood..the rest, a thousand year flood. No one alive in this area has ever seen it happen...or ever heard of their forebearers say it has. 
(I hope the're right)


----------



## Baymule

All this rain sure makes me appreciate our beach sand soil. What a relief from Black gumbo clay! But when it’s dry and my soil is blowing around like a Sahara sandstorm, maybe not so much.... You know it’s wet when our place puddles up.


----------



## Latestarter

Just got back inside from goat chores & property assessment. 2.5" of rain since I would guess around midnight when it started. The "dry" creek is full (~8' deep x 15' across) and over the bank in one spot. I have several streams running across my property, the largest of which is behind the house, running around the corral & horse run in shelter then down across below the goat pen. I've caught trout in streams this size.  This is the main drainage for the southern property line and collects water from up near the road, all the way down the property line and dumps out back behind the out buildings, near the existing corral.

Just looked at the radar and it appears that I may be coming into a break for a while. On the other hand, it appears that @AClark is about to get some of the rain that she so badly wants. It also appears that the southern edge of this thousand mile long aerial river has spread far enough south that Fred (I'm sure) is enjoying the benefits of liquid sunshine as well. Further to the east, Mike is a couple of hours away from the river moving over him. No weather guesser here (probably as good at the televised prognosticators ), but I do believe that both of their totals when this is all done will be substantially more than mine. Glad they are both housed on high ground. This is going to cause some serious flooding issues across a very large area. 

And for the lighter side of the news... my goats are unhappy. Go figure, right? Well, I can complain as well seeing as their chief complaint was brought on by their own stupidity. Previous to the real cold spell we had, I closed in the back of their shelter leaving them an "escape" opening so they could go in and out, but no wind or rain could get in. I also filled the shelter with wood shavings so they had a nice dry/warm area to bed down in. Well, being goats, and therefore the epitomy of destructiveness, they put their natural inquisitive nature to work and did what goats do... they "tested" that back wall for any weakness, and of course since it was a tarp and not stainless steel, they tore it apart.   It is now a "1/2 wall" with the bottom 1/2 torn off & the top half flapping in the breeze, and of course allowing wind & rain into their previously nice dry, warm shelter. 

Since they also prefer to stand up and go to the bathroom inside, coupled with 2"+ of rain, the inside (Picture goats stomping grapes in a 1/2 wine barrel) has been turned into a pulpy mush of rain, crap, and pee soaked sponge.   (had they NOT destroyed the back wall, it would NOT be) Since the ground outside surrounding their shelter is basically a puddle of mud & run off, and since this weather is expected to last for the foreseeable future, I expect they will not be doing much laying down for a while. To fix it I would have to partially remove the roof tarp covering. They should be very happy that I oblige to take their food to them inside the shelter so they don't have to go "out" in the rain. Luckily, it's not going to be all that cold while this weather persists. I have to get the dirt work done and a proper barn put up. Sure wish I was made of money. (I don't need anyone bashing me for animal cruelty, or explaining how cheap it is with waste wood, thank you )

<sigh> Mike, do your sheep destroy perfectly good tarps on your shelters? I'm beginning to think destructive nature is just a goat thing... Maybe that's why the devil is portrayed as one?


----------



## CntryBoy777

We are sitting at .7" right now, but the ground is so wet it is all run-off. I understand the frustration with your handi-work being destroyed and unappreciated....I have experienced the same results with mine....Comet even ripped one of the doors to their house off the hinges and they have broken several tables made from 2x6s up too. Something that may work for ya inside their shelter is pallets...just make sure the top boards aren't spaced too far apart that a leg or hoof can't get thru it or ya will be dealing with broken legs....but, it would get them up off the ground or wet bedding.....


----------



## Mike CHS

The sheep haven't damaged anything but Thor makes up for it.  They rarely go in the hoop house shelters unless it's raining real hard.

The only thing the sheep are hard on is fences where they use it for scratching the shedding hair off but low electric stopped that.  I left scrub trees up and they have several back scratching posts out and about so they get some relief.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Well, being goats, and therefore the epitomy of destructiveness, they put their natural inquisitive nature to work and did what goats do... they "tested" that back wall for any weakness, and of course since it was a tarp and not stainless steel, they tore it apart.  It is now a "1/2 wall" with the bottom 1/2 torn off & the top half flapping in the breeze, and of course allowing wind & rain into their previously nice dry, warm shelter.


Joe, we didn't get over there by my 'junkpile' to see it, but I have rolls (and rolls) of heavy nylon reinforced matting. Different sizes, most 8' square or longer..some long rectangles. 1/8" thickness or thicker, maybe 3/16".  It's black, ain't pretty and it IS HEAVY.  (you may have seen some of it on the outside of my chain link garden fence...I have  farm implements sitting on some of it so the grass and weeds don't grow up around the implements. May send you a pic of it when the rain abates......I usually cut it with a chainsaw or skillsaw..a knife ain't going to do it.


----------



## MiniSilkys

Latestarter said:


> Just got back inside from goat chores & property assessment. 2.5" of rain since I would guess around midnight when it started. The "dry" creek is full (~8' deep x 15' across) and over the bank in one spot. I have several streams running across my property, the largest of which is behind the house, running around the corral & horse run in shelter then down across below the goat pen. I've caught trout in streams this size.  This is the main drainage for the southern property line and collects water from up near the road, all the way down the property line and dumps out back behind the out buildings, near the existing corral.
> 
> Just looked at the radar and it appears that I may be coming into a break for a while. On the other hand, it appears that @AClark is about to get some of the rain that she so badly wants. It also appears that the southern edge of this thousand mile long aerial river has spread far enough south that Fred (I'm sure) is enjoying the benefits of liquid sunshine as well. Further to the east, Mike is a couple of hours away from the river moving over him. No weather guesser here (probably as good at the televised prognosticators ), but I do believe that both of their totals when this is all done will be substantially more than mine. Glad they are both housed on high ground. This is going to cause some serious flooding issues across a very large area.
> 
> And for the lighter side of the news... my goats are unhappy. Go figure, right? Well, I can complain as well seeing as their chief complaint was brought on by their own stupidity. Previous to the real cold spell we had, I closed in the back of their shelter leaving them an "escape" opening so they could go in and out, but no wind or rain could get in. I also filled the shelter with wood shavings so they had a nice dry/warm area to bed down in. Well, being goats, and therefore the epitomy of destructiveness, they put their natural inquisitive nature to work and did what goats do... they "tested" that back wall for any weakness, and of course since it was a tarp and not stainless steel, they tore it apart.   It is now a "1/2 wall" with the bottom 1/2 torn off & the top half flapping in the breeze, and of course allowing wind & rain into their previously nice dry, warm shelter.
> 
> Since they also prefer to stand up and go to the bathroom inside, coupled with 2"+ of rain, the inside (Picture goats stomping grapes in a 1/2 wine barrel) has been turned into a pulpy mush of rain, crap, and pee soaked sponge.   (had they NOT destroyed the back wall, it would NOT be) Since the ground outside surrounding their shelter is basically a puddle of mud & run off, and since this weather is expected to last for the foreseeable future, I expect they will not be doing much laying down for a while. To fix it I would have to partially remove the roof tarp covering. They should be very happy that I oblige to take their food to them inside the shelter so they don't have to go "out" in the rain. Luckily, it's not going to be all that cold while this weather persists. I have to get the dirt work done and a proper barn put up. Sure wish I was made of money. (I don't need anyone bashing me for animal cruelty, or explaining how cheap it is with waste wood, thank you )
> 
> <sigh> Mike, do your sheep destroy perfectly good tarps on your shelters? I'm beginning to think destructive nature is just a goat thing... Maybe that's why the devil is portrayed as one?


My buck messed up the hinges on the goathouse door so now it won't shut all the way. So now when it rains hard the water goes through the crack. Soaking everything.


----------



## Latestarter

Some of that matting might be great for floor covering over pallets allowing drainage but keeping them up off the ground. I didn't notice it when I was there.


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## Wehner Homestead

MiniSilkys said:


> My buck messed up the hinges on the goathouse door so now it won't shut all the way. So now when it rains hard the water goes through the crack. Soaking everything.



Not nice!


----------



## Baymule

You just reaffirmed for me why I love my sheep!  

We've gotten 4 inches of rain here, still falling. The weather man forecasted another 4 inches.....


----------



## MiniSilkys

Baymule said:


> You just reaffirmed for me why I love my sheep!
> 
> We've gotten 4 inches of rain here, still falling. The weather man forecasted another 4 inches.....


Yeah, with all the water they could soak up with their fleece, you could take and scrub the walls with them. Hehe.


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## Latestarter

I think she loves her sheep because they AREN'T destructive... They're real cute too.  

So I got to feeling sorry for the destructive little bast... Anyway... As I was saying... Feeling sorry for them. So I went and bought a 4x8sheet of PT plywood and completely blocked off the back opening (up wind) with the 1/2 tarp pulled down over the plywood, outside. I also bought more wood chips and replaced their interior "floor" covering. They better thank me with doelings and lots of fresh milk when the time comes!


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## Mike CHS

One thing in common is they will give you the opposite gender than you want.  I had heart to hearts with all my ewes 6 months ago and they just ignored what I asked for.


----------



## Baymule

MiniSilkys said:


> Yeah, with all the water they could soak up with their fleece, you could take and scrub the walls with them. Hehe.



they aren't wooly sheep, they're hair sheep! And they have sense enough to go in their shelter and huddle up together. No divas in my flock! They don't tear things up either.....with their "cute" personalities....


----------



## greybeard

My cows just keep on grazing.  Might turn their butts into the wind but that's the extent of it. Texans, thru and thru.


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## MiniSilkys

Baymule said:


> they aren't wooly sheep, they're hair sheep! And they have sense enough to go in their shelter and huddle up together. No divas in my flock! They don't tear things up either.....with their "cute" personalities....


I did not know that. LOL! My goats only peep their heads out if it is doing anything more that a mist. Although I might pour some shampoo on my buck and chain him out in the rain.  He urinates on his beard and front legs.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

MiniSilkys said:


> I did not know that. LOL! My goats only peep their heads out if it is doing anything more that a mist. Although I might pour some shampoo on my buck and chain him out in the rain.  He urinates on his beard and front legs.



We bathed our buck last summer! The kids got the biggest kick out of it! King, not so much! Lol


----------



## MiniSilkys

Wehner Homestead said:


> We bathed our buck last summer! The kids got the biggest kick out of it! King, not so much! Lol


What shampoo did you use? He stinks. I might use mane & tail.


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## Wehner Homestead

I used Dawn dish soap!!! Lol. I know it could dry him it out but it was one bath, not a regular thing. He smelled like a normal goat until rut. We will probably do it again when it warms up.


----------



## MiniSilkys

I use dawn on my gsd. He has flaking and I have tried every shampoo I could find. I even ordered some from vet supply. But dawn has had the best results. Did you know it even kills fleas? My dog doesn't have any cause he is on trifexis but before I found the pill I used dawn to kill them. You can even mix some in a spray bottle with water and spray your carpet. We don't have carpet. Gsds shed too much. Even wildlife rescuers use dawn on animals. It is the best to get oil off. Go dawn!


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## Wehner Homestead

Yep. I knew Dawn killed fleas. Lots of dog breeders use it if pups that are too young for other interventions get them.  The only concern is that it can be very drying (because it is so good at removing oils) so it shouldn’t be used regularly.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> One thing in common is they will give you the opposite gender than you want.


So you have to do the Br'er Rabbit thing on them, tell them you want males, LOTS of males. Of course then they will figure out that you are trying to fool them into giving you all females so they give you what you ask for.


----------



## Latestarter

Been raining steady for hours. Getting ready to try and sleep so went out in the rain & checked the rain gauge. Knew it would be over the top by morning. Sure enough, 4" gauge, was at 3.75". Dumped out somewhere over 2" the other day, so that puts me close to 6" I'm sure the creek is back up over its banks again. No where for the water to go... Ground is completely saturated. Really glad I bought the plywood for the back wall of the goat shelter. It's not completely dry inside but at least they're no longer standing in mud. And there's no longer wind and rain blowing in. All this wet is really getting old.


----------



## Bruce

I think you need an 8' pipeline from your place to @babsbag's dairy


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## DustyBoot

We're not getting as much rain as you are, but more than I want. My milking stall in the pole barn was nice and swampy this morning. The goats are huddled up in the pole barn staying dry, but the chickens are out. Mostly staying under the coop. I'm ready for summer.


----------



## Latestarter

Looks like the whole front line has moved north and is now flowing E/W over OK and AR onward. Not raining here at the moment, but there's more coming up from the south so it aint over yet. Dumped an additional 1/2" this morning after goat chores, so it would have overflowed. So officially over 6" now in the past 3-4 days.

Put a rack of pork ribs in the oven a while ago. Gonna be eatin well this afternoon.


----------



## Mike CHS

We do a lot of cooking when we get that kind of weather.  It's a good thing the freezers stay stocked.


----------



## DustyBoot

Blech. Dinner sounds tasty, though! I like cooking when the weather is bad too. Comfort food!


----------



## Latestarter

Sunlight "peeked" through the cloud cover for about an hour here late today before setting. Was soooooo nice to see! The heart of the "beast" has moved up into central AR now and extends NE into MO, IL, IN and starting toward OH. Another clump is centered over NW MS. 

I wonder if @goatgurl 's pond has finally refilled? My guess would be "if not completely, then substantially". Looks like the tail extends parallel to & ~75 miles west of I-35. It's not "wet" right now but I'm guessing since they forecast 100% chance of rain tomorrow, that it's gonna pick up (and dump) moisture as it moves eastward. Fingers crossed they're right and tomorrow sees the end of this. Supposed to have a couple of nice days starting Sunday.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yeh, it is suppose to be a gully-washer coming thru here and exiting before daylight on Sun....a couple of days of some sun and then another torrent coming on Wed...the sun "Peeped" at us some thru the afternoon, but then it clouded up before sundown....there are suppose to be a chance of some tornados thru here tomorrow, but more isolated than widespread.


----------



## Mike CHS

We got 3" from the one front but the other two completely passed us by.  I'm not griping though but this has been an extremely wet winter even for us where it's normal.


----------



## Baymule

We've had 5 1/2" and more coming tomorrow. The chicken and sheep yards are slop. The driveway actually has soft gooshy places. Creeks are full. The fog never lifted today, this evening it got so bad we couldn't see the road, could barely make out the garden fence.


----------



## Latestarter

Very foggy and damp here as well. So wet and the air has dried and cooled a bit. Funny... air has "dried" but is near 100% humidity... I don't know, you tell me.  My creek is still flowing but below the bank now. I still have geysers coming up out of the ground where the water has filled vole/mole tunnels and run down hill. The goats have some firm ground in the pen to stand/lay on. They ate like pigs at dinner time.


----------



## greybeard

A beautiful day here, sunny but still breezy & cool enough to open all the windows. 
More ugly weather on the way tho the next 4-5 days don't look as bad as the last 3-4.


----------



## DustyBoot

Still overcast here, but there are hints of blue in the sky and occasionally I can tell where the sun is. I guess that's something. The fog yesterday afternoon and evening was crazy. We have folks out for a regular Friday-night thing and I had to go stand at the end of the driveway with a blinky light because they couldn't find it in the dark and fog. It was thick. Supposedly we'll see the sun tomorrow.


----------



## greybeard

Rained sporadically this morning..lightly for the most part. Overcast and breezy. The South wind is pretty cool. Windows open again, but likely to get a bit muggy later..I need to do some serious ditch work but it's just too muddy for the tractor and the backhoe is way to heavy to even move with the ground like it is. .


----------



## Latestarter

Rolled over very early and saw the moon in the western sky. By the time I woke/got up, it was heavy overcast an "dripping" rain. Another ugly, gray, wet day here. Supposed to clear tonight and partly sunny for the next several days, then back into the wet.


----------



## DustyBoot

Yep, we need to move our chicken coop (on skids) to fresh pasture, but as soft as the ground is right now they're just going to have to wait. Hopefully things will dry out enough by tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I still have geysers coming up out of the ground where the water has filled vole/mole tunnels and run down hill.


Should make for a lot fewer voles in the field this summer 



DustyBoot said:


> We have folks out for a regular Friday-night thing and I had to go stand at the end of the driveway with a blinky light because they couldn't find it in the dark and fog.


Perhaps you need to put a bell buoy down there.


----------



## Baymule

It was drizzly and gray today, got an afternoon shower, another 3/4" of rain. That beings my total up to 6 1/4 inches of rain. 

@Devonviolet @Latestarter what are your totals? Supposed to sunshine tomorrow and the next day, then we start over on the rain.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

We hadn’t gotten the rain gauge back out yet...I wish we would’ve to track the rain but it probably wouldn’t have gotten put up before the next freeze and been ruined.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

We've been forecast to get part of the wetness that ya'll north of me have gotten - don't know how we got so lucky to get out with probably not more than an inch over the last week or so.  But as wet as we already were we're still wet and mucky to the point that I think we may never dry out....


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> what are your totals? Supposed to sunshine tomorrow and the next day, then we start over



Our four day total ended up being 7.25"!


----------



## Mike CHS

After seeing what y'all are posting I think I will quit griping.


----------



## Latestarter

Picked up a final 3/4" this afternoon as the last blast went through. I think that put me right at 7"... maybe a bit more or less.

ETA: Looks like the back of the front is about to finish up on Fred in the next hour or two and the front edge is about to slam into Mike very soon. Lookin' like Mike's gonna get "trained" He may catch up to our rain totals.


----------



## greybeard

Pouring here and wind has again turned out of the north. This stuff is all coming out of extreme SE Texas and maybe a bit from Northern Mexico....my regional radar shows it to be a continuous train from the Rio Grande to the upper Sabine, but the bigger picture shows we're sending it all the way up to New England.
Greetings from Texas. Don't say we never gave ya nothin.
It's just moisture folks..a bit of water.  Now, if in your infinite wisdom, you choose to turn it into snow, sleet, and ice, don't blame us.  It was just liq sunshine when it left here.....






https://www.wunderground.com/wunder...0Q&wxsn=0&svr=0&cams=0&sat=0&riv=0&mm=0&hur=0


----------



## Mike CHS

We wound up with another 1 1/2" but the severe weather went wide of us and hit the northern part of the state.


----------



## farmerjan

Well, we started getting "your front" last night.  Pouring down rain about 7-7:30.  Then another downpour about 9-9:30.  I was at a barn testing cows and it was so loud on the tin roof you couldn't hear yourself talk.  Then it let up some but has been raining quite steadily since about 5 this morning.

We needed rain/moisture.  And we are trying to be thankful for it.  But all that on top of the frozen ground turned into mud, then it thawed and it turned into mud, then we had a little spell of just mostly clouds and a breeze so it was actually getting to where we could get around in some places.  Mud is 2 ft deep going through gateways and all to feed but there were some drier spots in the fields.  Now, all bets are off.  I didn't put out the rain gauge because I would be the one to forget it, but I did set upright several buckets so will see what they have later.  It is supposed to be out of here by noon.  It has been raining pretty steady and it looks just like a small watery covering on the fields where it is not actually running off in little streams.

Could we please put in an order for a little of this to wait and come in like July or August?????  Pretty please.....


----------



## CntryBoy777

We caught a break with this last batch that came thru and only got 1.2" out of it....that puts us at 4.7" for this rainy period. We have a couple of days of sun and rain returns on Wed, but after that we have sun and normal temps for 4-5days. It will be nice to have some normalcy for a little bit anyway. We've had the AC running for a good portion of Feb and I can't remember ever having to do that....


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Could we please put in an order for a little of this to wait and come in like July or August????? Pretty please.....


That doesn't seem like an unreasonable request.


----------



## greybeard

Some of ya'll sounding 'less than grateful' in regards to the generosity and natural propensity for sharing us Texans are exhibiting...


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, bunch of ingrates. Just wait until the dry season. THEN they'll remember how poorly you were treated when you shared and understand why you aren't sharing any more.


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## Baymule

Thanks for bringing our gates to us today LS! We sure enjoyed the visit, we need to do that more often!


----------



## MiniSilkys

We had tornado warnings through here last night. One man was killed in Arkansas. Glad it was not worse.


----------



## Latestarter

Came home with a stuffed belly  and some really good food gifts for later! Finally got to try official southern style fried okra.  Wasn't scary or bad, but it wasn't ice cream or chocolate cake either. It was "good"... I got 2nds. Also got the fencing I needed to make the hay feeder(s).. construction scheduled for start tomorrow. Well worth the trip! Thanks again for a delicious lunch! Glad I was able to get and deliver the gates for you. 

When I got home, I unloaded the truck and then noticed that burn pile just sitting there in the mucky field calling to me. Had some old stale gas in the Harley I needed to drain so did that and used it to get that brush pile blazing. When it went "WHOOSH!" the goats stampeded into their shelter like the scaredy cats they are.  They wouldn't come out till I brought in their dinner. Funny how that ended their scare. 

Didn't get the "sunny day" we were "promised" as it was overcast and sprinkling off and on most of the day. But no real rain. Kinda sweater weather. It's gonna take a week of dry weather to solidify my pasture soil. The weeds have gone into overdrive growth. Can't spray anything yet as it's too wet and still draining. More rain coming in a couple of days as well.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Starting fires with gas! Shame, shame!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Gotta use what's available....just have to have some sense about ya. Our generation did it a whole lot more back then, so most know what they are facing. I prefer rubbing alcohol, but if I'm out there is diesel and gas....better to light it and burn it than to drain into the soil somewhere....


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## Latestarter

I've had over a week straight of rain, totaling ~7"... That pile is (was) sitting in a wet muddy pasture surrounded by almost foot tall weeds. I have a Harley that has been sitting for the better part of 6 months, not being run, so the gas was questionable/stale to put through the injectors... After I drained it (~3 gallons), what was I supposed to do with it? Figured better to put it to good use. Got that wet wood burning very nicely. Ground was too saturated for any to sink in and pollute.


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## Baymule

I like a burn pile. It is satisfying to get all that burnt and cleaned up.


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## Wehner Homestead

I was more worried about you catching on fire LS. I know some that have gotten horrible burns from starting fires with gas.


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## greybeard

Preferable to mix old gasoline with diesel to start fires with..2 parts diesel to one part gasoline in high humidity. Low humidity and dry conditions, increase the ratio to 3:1. The gasoline ignites the diesel and diesel will generate longer lasting heat to really get damp wood burning, while the volatiles in gasoline (even stale gasoline) flash off in seconds. 
I've used this safely in drip torches for controlled burns. 

This, is a drip torch:
https://goo.gl/images/VbZR7Y


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## MiniSilkys

We use kerosene to get fires started in our hothouse stove. It doesn't catch everything on fire or smoke much.


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## MiniSilkys

Our kindling is always wet this time of year. Our wood also draws moisture in the hothouse. But the kerosene gets it burning good.


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## Latestarter

I agree with the lower volatility and prolonged heat output of diesel & kerosene (they are basically the same thing) and I have used both in the past. But I'm afraid I have no machinery here that requires/uses either, so I don't have any readily available, and don't plan to buy any specifically for burning brush piles.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> iesel & kerosene (they are basically the same thing)



It's kind of like the difference between a fiddle and a violin....mostly..the price. 
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/crown-1-k-fuel-grade-kerosene-5-gal

http://www.skylineproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/RaceTrac-LED-Gas-Price-Sign.jpg


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## Bruce

I really ought to get to my burn pile .... but I've never done one and that bugger is getting awful big. If I do it in the winter when there is snow on the ground I don't need a permit.
If I do it in the winter when there is snow on the ground I don't have a hose for "just in case".


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## CntryBoy777

@Bruce just be sure the prevailing wind is blowing away from any structures....and light the down wind side of the pile....that way the wind won't push the flames to more fuel and flare up on ya....once it gets half-way burned, then what is left will be blowing on fuel depleted ground and less likely to get out of control. I don't like to burn leaves or grass on a big pile unless it is covered with branches to hold the embers down until they are burned. I always use a rake and a shovel....not a leaf rake, but a heavier garden rake it can help spread things out and the shovel can smother flames fairly quickly and shovel dirt on the pile if needed. If the pile is really huge, then pull some off the pile and lite it down wind and let it burn to the bigger pile....you'll have better control of it....if ya need a little fuel to get it started, use rubbing alcohol...it doesn't flare up and it doesn't stay in the soil...it burns clean....


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## greybeard

humidity level is way more important than wind. I burned about 22 big burn piles in '08-09. Big as a house some of them.



 



 
The aftermath


 

The National and Texas Forest Service does prescribed burns frequently here, and always watch for a high humidity day to do it.  They burn thousands of acres at a time and as far as I know, have never had one get out of control in this or the adjoining counties.

Big burn piles, make their own wind. If you don't think so, light one up at night...you can see the glowing embers go hundreds of feet into the air and drift off to the sides of the pile in the lightest of breeze. But, if humidity is high, they go out before they hit the ground and even if they hit the ground, the likelihood of them being able to catch grass on fire is minimal.


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## Latestarter

Even after prolonged periods of wetness (like I recently experienced) the inside of the wood is sill dry. It will be wet on the outside of course but it will still burn. You just need to keep the fire going and hot long enough to burn through the wet stuff to get to eating the dry. Like Fred said, a garden rake should be more than sufficient if the ground and surrounding area is wet. When I burned the previous piles, I waited till dusk and dew time but it had been dry so I used a hose to soak the area adjacent to the fire and to cool the outer coals on the down wind side to prevent spread. While it's burning, I walk around collecting up anything else that needs to be added and throw that in there as well.


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## Latestarter

And as it happens, I'm just finishing up several hours of pouring rain... again... I once more have streams running across my property, front and rear. The area in the goat pen that had dried up some, enough for the goats to lay there without getting coated with mud, is now back to being mud.









On the bright side, I bought 4 packages of full sized spare ribs on sale yesterday, so took out a pkg of St Louis style ribs from the last sale (2 left) and cooked them up for lunch. I guess the main grocer around here; Brookshire's has started a new thing... 5% senior (over 60) discount on Tuesdays. Since their weekly ad ends on Tuesdays, I guess I'll try to make that my "sale ad" shopping date there.

Yesterday I started building the hay feeder. Got to the point of starting the actual fence "hanger" portion. Just too wet out there to do anything today. I think I'm going to need more poultry staples. I may have to adjust down the height of the roof. No problem, that's what circular saws were invented for. The really nice thing is I found a (slate stone) pallet that was right at the exact size I needed, basically brand new. You can see that I just needed to trim the edges off the boards. The boards laying on the platform are the hangers the fencing will be attached to.







I made the opposing side legs longer so I can put a sloped roof over it. I want to use the polycarbonate corrugated roof panels like his one from Home Depot




I want to build the roof so I can hinge it on the higher side and lift it open when I need to add hay. Haven't drawn up plans... just working it out in my head as I go. Seems to be my small project building "go-to" methodology... SWAG it (Scientific Wild Ass Guess). I do measure things as I go though...


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## Mike CHS

Is that a storm shelter or root seller or possibly both in that first picture?


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## greybeard

This covered feeder may give you an idea or 2. Took the picture at Producers in Bryan.

If I'd known you were going to build it, I'd given you enough corrugated stainless to roof it with. Probably have a couple of alumasteel sheets in the stack too, but, stainless is painless.

btw..I could see the river from my back porch early this morning and where we drove down toward the river was all under several feet of water since late yesterday. The little beaver dam we walked out and looked at was and probably still is under 5-6 ft of water. The river was within 1 ft of going over fm945 but crested this morning and has started down now.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=HGX&gage=CLDT2


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## Latestarter

Mike CHS said:


> Is that a storm shelter or root seller or possibly both in that first picture?



That's a storm cellar Mike. I've used it once and could NOT get Mel to join me. I guess it's good to have it should I ever need it.  Guess it's the year for flooding down there GB... Did the flood reach as far as your main pond or stay back in that back pasture?


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## CntryBoy777

Like the hay feeder, so far....and sure looks like it will work really well. I may have to utilize that design myself. We started getting rain at 6pm yesterday evening and not moving out til noon tomorrow. I'd feel your pain, but my fingers are all "Pruned" up and from being in water for so long....


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Did the flood reach as far as your main pond or stay back in that back pasture?


It stayed down on the East side, but the local rain/runoff had already engorged the pond to several times it's normal size. Even tho the river has dropped several feet since yesterday morning, it is still on part of my property right now. We didn't go over on the North and  Northeast side of the channel where the beaver dam was but that's mine too. A few minutes ago from my back porch, you can see the river water in the distance


The above is just water from the upper watershed, some of it from 90 miles north..it takes about 36 hours for it to swell the river here. In the above pic, the local water has already moved out, but I did take a couple pics of Sunday, Monday's local buildup with my cell phone.

Previous 2 days, buildup in my channels and the pond from local runoff was significant. All the rain that falls on a rectangle formed by Shaw road on the West, FM 945 on the North, my western portion, and about 200 yards South of Albright Lane has to run across my property and thru my pond to reach it's natural drainage destination..the river.
In the pic below, my shop's roof would be just to the right.



 

Panning further to the right, the pond.




Was this a bad one? Absolutely not. For comparison...
When you came down Albright Lane, you may have noticed about 1/2 way down, a single road off to your right with an old silver metal gate..probably closed. When last year's flood came, that road is where we paddled to and got out of the boat and left it tied to a tree.


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## CntryBoy777

It is a shame ya have to deal with that so soon after the swamping ya got from the hurricane.....do ya have much problem with gators there traveling the waters?


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## greybeard

no. Not active this time of year--water is too cold. They'll move just enough to stay on high ground, but otherwise avoid swimming unless absolutely necessary. They don't exactly hibernate, but become much less active in cold water, lose their appetite altogether, and basically just sit in mud or on the bottom of the water that is usually warmer than the surface. They hold their breath for extended periods of time, and just float up, grab a breath and submerge again.


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## Latestarter

Well, the southern boundary of the front line has settled in right over the top of me. It's been training right over me & alternating pouring rain so heavy I can't see the woods line at the back of the pasture, to light rain, enough to soak through your clothes in a very short time. I just got in from digging out redirection trenches to get some of the flow away from the carport. Sundown isn't ill almost 6:30, and it's darker than dusk @ 3pm... 

Was already out and wet... should have checked the rain gauge...  Looks like a bunch more developing back behind it so it's gonna be a wet night. Looks like it's well north of you GB... Perhaps you'll continue to drain and dry out some. I remember the gate you spoke of.

Not so much for Fred (or Mike) though... Looks to be right over them as well. Man has it been a wet spring... and it isn't even spring yet...


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## CntryBoy777

We got an inch over nite and most of the day today....not suppose to move out til noon tomorrow.....and Joe....we haven't hit Spring just yet....it is still Winter....


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## Mike CHS

It has been raining heavy here for most of the day so we went to Columbia to do some UTV window shopping.


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## Latestarter

So late last night before the final front went through I went out and dumped 2" from the gauge. This morning I went out and dumped another 1". So total now sits at +/-10" of rain in the past 8-10 days. Sun has been peeking in and out for the last hour or so. Hopefully tomorrow will be sun all day.

OK I've about had it with the non hitting keys so I got off my butt and scrounged up some new AA batteries to see it that fixes the issue. It had spread to the surrounding keys as well. Still misses the "t" every so often but much better than it was. Don't want to spend $60+ on another new keyboard...

Was out of goat feed (they got the last for a light breakfast) and the eagle pooped this morning (govt retirement check) so I had money again. While picking up goat pellets I got some cull lumber and a few odds and ends to finish the hay feeder. Any recommendations on how to cut the plastic corrugated roof panels without shattering the cut edge? Figure I'll ask before I wing it & make a mess... First thought was circular saw, then hand saw, then diamond cutting wheel in a drill. Poss a jigsaw? I think that would shake it into even more damage.

Also picked up CD&T vaccine for the goats and a 200ml bottle of ivermectin. Got the 1% injectable for cattle and swine but will give it orally. Dot is about 20-24 days away from expected due date. So she and the 2 boys got their CD&T today. The other girls will get theirs in the next week or so as I'm not sure how far they are from kidding. I don't want to give it too early and the kids not get the benefit. I think Bang is going to go 2nd followed by April then CB last. Another thing I noticed today, especially with April is their feet are starting to look really bad again. All the mud isn't helping and doesn't make trimming a fun filled prospect. I think I'm going to bring them up on the back deck one at a time and give them a bath and trim as they are covered in mud.

Next after the hay feeder is a milking stand. I got a really awesome pallet that is very high quality, brand new, and will be perfect for it.


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## Mike CHS

I cut the panels for our lean-to with a circular saw with a good blade but they were metal and I'm not sure about plastic.  I use blue painters tape on the exit side of the panel.  Same principal works for plywood if you want a better edge and it works sort of like a zero clearance throat on a table saw.

I dumped 2" out of the gauge yesterday and another 2 1/2 today.


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## CntryBoy777

I have used my dremel to cut plastic and vinyl material with good success....just takes a bit longer, but does a good job.
I dumped right at 4" out this afternoon after everything had past....water is standing everywhere....not sure about our totals I lost track of it all, but is around the 10" mark give or take some tenths. We do have 3 days before some more is to come in, but I don't think it is suppose to be near what we've been getting....


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## Bruce

Plastic is hard to cut because it cracks easily (as you already know/surmised). The Dremel is likely your best bet since it won't shake the piece and is less likely to chip it. I would put tape on both sides and draw your line on that. The Dremel might melt the plastic as it moves through.


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## Latestarter

I can handle it melting the edge... I just don't want it shattered and broken/cracked. I've often wondered why nobody has ever invented a heating wire coil that can be used to melt through stuff I guess I could heat a long piece of barbed wire or heavy (not copper) fencing wire with a torch and "pull" it through the panel... Should give a nice clean edge that way.


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## CntryBoy777

If ya have a torch, then cut it and then use the torch to seal the edge?....I thought they were a fiberglass material. Dremel will work....that is what I use to cut trlr skirting with and worked like a champ....and cut other plastic stuff too with no problems at all.


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## Baymule

I've cut acrylic pieces with a jigsaw before. I used heavy masking tape on both sides.


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## greybeard

I've cut thousands of sheets of acrylic and polycarbonate at a fixture company I used to work for.

Polycarbonate is the generic name for Lexan....Acrylic is the generic name for Plexiglas. They are 2 completely different products with polycarbonate being much more forgiving when cutting or bending.
Warm ambient  temps can help a lot...the colder it is, the more likely the poly is to chip. Acrylic, even worse. 

If cutting across (perpendicular to) the corrugations and you have more than one sheet of polycarbonate to cut, cut them all stacked together..depending on the thickness, probably can cut up to 5 at a time with a good 40 to 60 tooth skill saw blade. A triple chip blade works better with close to a 0 pitch tooth rake but they are more expensive. You may have seen the Freud brand triple chip blade I had hanging on my shop wall..it's what I use for cutting poly with my table saw.

Jig saws and heated wires work poorly on poly because it has a relatively low melting point and even with a jig saw blade, you are apt to have trouble with either the kerf (the cut) getting hot and melting and clogging the blade or the kerf get hot and melt back together behind the blade.  No matter what kind of saw blade you use, the feed rate (how fast you move the blade thru the material) needs to be fast enough to ensure each tooth pulls a chip..no teeth just contacting but not cut...it makes the poly get hot. But don't push so hard that you are forcing the cut.


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> or the kerf get hot and melt back together behind the blade.


Ran into that using a jigsaw on corrugated plastic panels. No chipping or cracking with that stuff though, it is pretty soft plastic. 

I've not done anything with polycarbonate but acrylic, yep it loves to crack and chip. Definitely want to have the section being cut VERY stable so it can't bounce while being cut.


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## Latestarter

So I decided to just go for it with the circular saw.  Worked just fine. Took it nice and slow, no chipping, no cracking. Just finished placing it and taking some pics. The goats have already tried to climb into it, over it, through it. I was pleased they were disappointed. 














In other news, I took a 16lb turkey out of the freezer yesterday for lunch/dinner tomorrow. Even started staling some bread to make a real stuffing. Bought more spuds to mash & put gravy on and some dinner rolls as well. Have a couple of cans of cranberry in the fridge to chill. Gonna be eating real good for the next few days.  Grilled rib eye for dinner tonight.


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## Mike CHS

That looks good and it's even better that the goats can't get in.


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## CntryBoy777

Looks really Good Joe!!....it sure sounds like ya will be eating Good in yo neighborhood for a bit.....


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## greybeard

Coincidence, but we put a turkey in the oven ourselves a couple hrs ago. Never have tried it before, but used a jennieO frozen cook-in-the-bag-without-thawing bird. We shall see.......and we shall also see, for the 1st time in the  23 years we've been together, if my wife can cook a turkey. 
(I am da cook here most of the bigger meals and last night I downloaded 3 different traditional fruit kolache recipes..a project for rainy tuesday..we shall see on that as well...)


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## Latestarter

Never done one of those type turkeys GB. Will be interested to hear your verdict, providing of course that your wife of 23 years, can indeed cook a turkey properly. I've always done most all the cooking as well. My 2nd wife did cook some Russian dishes that I didn't know, that were quite good. My first wife didn't know what a stove/oven was used for.     Just finished the rib eye. It was very good. Looked kinda like those shared by Fred here a few evenings back.   Think I''ll throw together a salad as I'm still a little hungry.


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## Mini Horses

Like your hay rack.  I need 2 of those.   Hmmmm..  I'll send pic to son.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Never done one of those type turkeys GB. Will be interested to hear your verdict, providing of course that your wife of 23 years, can indeed cook a turkey properly.


She did her part fine.
It came in the bag pre-seasoned, and I suppose pre-basted.
Cooked in 3.5 hrs as per the directions for the weight of the bird.
Looked pretty good, and certainly juicy and done thru but I was not crazy about the seasoning they used. Still, considering how little mess and no worries about thawing , it worked out fine.
(the gravy mix that came in a little plastic pouch between the outer bag and the cooking bag?....uh, no. just.no)

 Removed it from the oven and checked it with a meat thermometer which said it was done. (it also had one of those notoriously inaccurate popup thingies that had indeed popped up)
Just out of the oven:



After letting it 'sit a spell', I slit the bottom of the bag, and tilted the carcass up to drain most of the liquid off before moving onto something I could work off of.
Transferred out of the roasting pan onto a sheet with 1" tall sides so I could remove the cooking bag and let it drain a bit:




Off the bone and ready to eat:



(I guess I'll keep her around a little longer, but I haven't forgotten the great cloved ham debacle of 1997. She stuck an entire jar of cloves in the ham...said she thought there was supposed to be one in every one of the little precut diamonds in the ham skin...we threw it out, but the kitchen smelled scrumptious for several days.)


----------



## babsbag

That would be a heck of a lot of cloves.   

I don't cook during the week while DH is gone and he likes to cook on the weekends so I am more than happy to let him. I really don't enjoy cooking (or maybe it is the mess it makes that I don't like). I cooked all the meals and did all the shopping  when the kids were at home; when they left for college I retired from the kitchen and never looked back. I still do all the canning and of course the cheese making. 

Hay feeders look great. And just an FYI, I use my grinder to cut those kind of panels. It really just melts the edge, but it works.


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> That would be a heck of a lot of cloves.


Looked like a short sheared porcupine would.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, it was "dry" enough at feeding time last night that I went ahead and trimmed hooves. Bang saw everyone go before her and evaded me last night. Figured we were in for more wet so I wanted to get it done while I could. Bang came to me for back scratches this morning at feeding time. BWahahaha I had the nippers with me  So her hooves got done as well.  Since CC is the smallest/youngest, she is always getting picked on, especially by Bang. She fits under the hay feeder and has crawled under there and laid down. Nobody is bothering her under there.

So GB, what was wrong with the seasoning on the bird? I am pretty picky about my seasonings as well. I'm with Babs... The cleanup afterwards is not enjoyable. That was a LOT of cloves for a ham! But yeah, I'll bet the house smelled great for a week+. I have mine stuffed and in the oven right now. Timer set for 2 hours after which I'll check it and start the other meal preps. Fully stuffed I'm figuring ~3 hours cook time @350.


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## animalmom

Right nice job on that hayrack!  Double bonus that CC can use it as a safe place to be.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> So GB, what was wrong with the seasoning on the bird?


Not sure..not any one spice I could put my finger on...just an odd blend I am not familiar with. I'm pretty sure it was injected before freezing at the processor, and I've often found those commercially made liquid injections to be a little strong. Jane liked it..I found it just 'so-so' and not a taste I would intentionally shoot for.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> but I haven't forgotten the great cloved ham debacle of 1997


Wow can you hold a grudge!


----------



## Mike CHS

Teresa did the clove thing about 6 years ago so I cook all of the hams now.


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## Bruce

She knows how to get out of work if she doesn't want to do it


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## Wehner Homestead

I’ll share my first experience baking a turkey in early January. It was very good, if I do say so myself. In my defense, DH isn’t big on turkey (he says most people get it too dry) and he had four helpings and was still stealing some every time he could get to the kitchen while I cooled it, cleaned the carcass, and put it in refrigerator containers. 



 
I’ll definitely cook one again sooner than later! The leftovers made some yummy turkey and noodles and turkey wraps!


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## Bruce

You can't tell us how moist and good it was without telling us how you cooked it


----------



## Latestarter

Well, my turkey didn't come out to well. The stuffing, cranberry, spuds & gravy were excellent. The white meat was stringy, dry and tough. This was a strange named bird producer I've never used before. Hope they aren't all this way as I stocked up and have 4 or 5 more in the freezer.  Not sure what breed this bird was as it had black feathers where I'm used to the white feathered birds. The breasts were long and stringy vice plump and the leg muscles were very short on long bones. Sill ate too much.


----------



## Baymule

Your hay feeders look great! You done good! I showed them to DH and he liked your handiwork too. Bad Bang! Glad the hay feeder provides a safe place for CC. 

On the next turkey you cook, try laying strips of bacon over the breast. If the turkey breast is still dry and stringy, at least the bacon will be good.


----------



## Mike CHS

That will be a bummer if they are all that way.  Maybe some different cooking methods might be in order.  I have better luck with turkey cooking them on the smoker after putting them in a brine for 24 or more hours.


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## CntryBoy777

If ya have a pressure cooker or a fryer....I'd try something different......could do beer can turkey on the grill......


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Wow can you hold a grudge!


Oh, we both remember it equally well...she mentioned it last night herself.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Bruce said:


> You can't tell us how moist and good it was without telling us how you cooked it



When I get a chance to type it out, I’ll post it on my recipe thread.


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so y'all remember this picture of the hay feeder. You'll notice that I had to place pavers under the front end as the ground there was lower. As you can see, the feeder is still not level. Despite this, please notice that the lifted lid is still (only) slightly past vertical, though less so than it would have been on level ground (where it was built). The hay that you see inside was basically laid in there as it was ~1/3 of a full bale and quite light in weight.






So, design flaw, or if you prefer, lack of foresight on my part. What do ya suppose happens when you lift a full ~60 pound bale up to face height and drop it into the feeder? If your answer was: "The forward momentum and weight of the bale will cause an equal and opposite reaction from the roof, causing it to move forward, past vertical, and thus fall." you'd be 100% right. And since my face was basically right where it was falling, you can imagine the consequences 
I share with you, the result:



It looked a lot worse before cleaning it up. Left a pretty good blood trail through the pen, up to the house, all over my shirts. Nose isn't broken thankfully but it's gonna leave a mark. Getting more battle scars from this danged farming thing than I did from 24 years in the military. 

As for the other injury noted, that happened when getting ready to leave Bay's place after dropping off the gates. I used 12' 2x4s under the 16' gate to support it hanging out past the end of the tailgate. I put them diagonally out over the tailgate coming home. While walking to the truck to leave, I was carrying eggs, my mug, bacon, and watching the uneven ground to not trip, and while rounding the back side of the truck headed to the passenger side to place said items inside on the passenger seat, thumped myself in the forehead on the 2x4s. Rather embarrassing, but It did give Bay a nice chuckle...  OK, was more like a (prolonged) guffaw... No blood from that one.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh man - that hadta hurt!

I feel your pain from walking into the  2 x 4's as I walked into the electric fence for the first time this weekend.  Felt just like getting hit in the head with a hammer (or a 2 x 4 I suppose)


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh my Joe!!....I know that had to hurt some....being 6'2" I seem to be bumping my head quite often on plenty of things around here....Mom was 5'2" and most things were built for her. Hope your headache goes away fairly soon. I know banging your head on the 2x4 wasn't very nice....I'd much rather do that than to rack my shin on a trailer hitch....done that too many times.


----------



## Mike CHS

I've done similar more times than I care to admit and I know the feeling.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I was carrying eggs, my mug, bacon, and watching the uneven ground to not trip, and while rounding the back side of the truck headed to the passenger side to place said items inside on the passenger seat, thumped myself in the forehead on the 2x4s. Rather embarrassing, but It did give Bay a nice chuckle...


But you didn't drop and break the eggs, right???

When you started your description of loading the hay, I was expecting to read that the whole thing fell over backwards then the bottom came up and took you off your feet. Let's not try that to see it it would be worse than getting smacked in the face! OW OW OW!!!! I guess it is time for the first EC, a brace to hold the lid open. Is there an equivalent of the Purple Heart for injuries incurred in the line of duty while farming?


----------



## Latestarter

Nice catch there Bruce... completely missed mentioning that nothing got dropped or broken in the first incident... Except... After getting whacked in the forehead I set my mug down on the bumper to rub my head and wipe away the stars. In doing so, I realized I had left my shirt/jacket in Bay's house (with my wallet and cell in the breast pockets). So I continued & put the eggs and bacon in the front seat then turned to go get my shirt (watching the 2x4s this time). Bay's DH met me with it and I took it and climbed in the truck to go, as Bay was headed toward the front gate to open it and let me out (no doubt still chuckling).

So I get about 2 miles down the road and reach for my mug and... ummm it's not there??? Coulda sworn I took it out of the house with me...   Turn around and head back to Bay's place and there it is, laying on the ground at the end of the driveway.  So I stopped and picked it up, none the worse for wear, and headed back toward home.

So, I did a dedicated wally world run to get a new keyboard as the whole section of E/T/D was not working all the time. Bought the keyboard, came home, opened the box and the damn USB chip wasn't in the box. The new keyboard wouldn't work with the previous chip.  Back to Wally world I go. Return that one, swap for a replacement. Verified everything was there. Get home and upon install, realize this keyboard (& mouse) are identical to the ones I have now, but NOT the same as the ones in the previous box that was missing the chip. Hmmm I do believe someone purchased said box before me, and subbed out their broken crap for the new and then returned it without the chip.   I mean really... for a $39 keyboard & mouse... If they can afford the computer, they should be able to afford to replace a bad keyboard...

Nice to not have to go back over everything I type to add in "T"s, "D"s, and "E"s.

ETA: very nice day today with temps at ~80° very windy though. Drying out nicely. Hope to start back to fencing tomorrow. The red wasps are back in full force, and still in the eves where they were at the end of the season last year. Bought some spray foam and hope to seal up those opening one of the coming nights when temps go down into the 30s.


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## CntryBoy777

We got a half inch of rain overnite and it is suppose to be nice til Sat....temps are dropping to 10-15° cooler during that time. I dread the wasps coming back out and hope to get a few things done before they do.


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## Mike CHS

This feels strange.  I was cutting grass yesterday and it's supposed to have a frost in the next few days.  I have 3 flats of seedlings started that need to get out into the sunshine.


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## CntryBoy777

Joyce has been setting her tropicals out during the sunshine, they'll have to do with less hrs of true sunlight for a few days. She has some seeds starting and set out 50 onions yesterday.....
This rye grass is growing fast and glad I didn't plant outside the fence....or I'd be figuring out how to get down there to cut it....that is the lowest point so it is super soggy down there right now.


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## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> OK, so y'all remember this picture of the hay feeder. You'll notice that I had to place pavers under the front end as the ground there was lower. As you can see, the feeder is still not level. Despite this, please notice that the lifted lid is still (only) slightly past vertical, though less so than it would have been on level ground (where it was built). The hay that you see inside was basically laid in there as it was ~1/3 of a full bale and quite light in weight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, design flaw, or if you prefer, lack of foresight on my part. What do ya suppose happens when you lift a full ~60 pound bale up to face height and drop it into the feeder? If your answer was: "The forward momentum and weight of the bale will cause an equal and opposite reaction from the roof, causing it to move forward, past vertical, and thus fall." you'd be 100% right. And since my face was basically right where it was falling, you can imagine the consequences
> I share with you, the result:
> View attachment 44848
> It looked a lot worse before cleaning it up. Left a pretty good blood trail through the pen, up to the house, all over my shirts. Nose isn't broken thankfully but it's gonna leave a mark. Getting more battle scars from this danged farming thing than I did from 24 years in the military.
> 
> As for the other injury noted, that happened when getting ready to leave Bay's place after dropping off the gates. I used 12' 2x4s under the 16' gate to support it hanging out past the end of the tailgate. I put them diagonally out over the tailgate coming home. While walking to the truck to leave, I was carrying eggs, my mug, bacon, and watching the uneven ground to not trip, and while rounding the back side of the truck headed to the passenger side to place said items inside on the passenger seat, thumped myself in the forehead on the 2x4s. Rather embarrassing, but It did give Bay a nice chuckle...  OK, was more like a (prolonged) guffaw... No blood from that one.



Prolonged guffaw....oh, I am howling now!!  DH was asking what was so funny and I couldn't stop laughing long enough to tell him! I couldn't breathe! I finally stopped laughing and read your post to DH, then we both laughed, giggled, howled, guffawed, (snort) and laughed some more.


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## greybeard

Joe's misadventures.....  .....for once, I'm at a loss for words, but considering part of it happened delivering gates, the phrase "no good deed goes unpunished" comes to mind.


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## Baymule

Even though we gave him the wire for his hay contraption, we DID NOT design it nor did we build it. We are not responsible for the whallop on his nose.


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## greybeard

It's your story Bay........you can tell it any way you want to......


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> So I get about 2 miles down the road and reach for my mug and... ummm it's not there??? Coulda sworn I took it out of the house with me...  Turn around and head back to Bay's place and there it is, laying on the ground at the end of the driveway.  So I stopped and picked it up, none the worse for wear, and headed back toward home.


And now you've given @Baymule one more thing to guffaw at!

I bet you were happy to at least get the mug back. It could have flown off into a ditch on the side of the road.


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## Latestarter

Not the first time I've lost stuff placed on the roof/bumper etc. Doesn't take senility to have a mind lapse...

ETA, so it got up to ~ 65° today and will be in the 30s tonight. I did see a honey bee and a couple of wasps, but nothing like yesterday. Tomorrow is only going to be mid 50s then freezing tomorrow night. After that, temps climb back to mid 70s by Saturday. Sorry some of you are dealing with winter weather.

Got some large fence posts sunk today. Real be-atch post hole digging through soggy iron ore clay. Water was in the bottoms when I got down to 3'. Dropped one post in and it splashed straight up out of the hole higher than the post. Then dragged out the lawn tractor to cut the weeds that have been aggressively taking over. Still like a quagmire out there, even after several days of warm temps and breezes. I know I packed the deck with wet green matter.

Back to fencing again tomorrow.


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## Mike CHS

How big of a fence run are you doing this time?


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## Latestarter

I'm sinking the "H" brace posts and replacing the section of "yard" fence that separates the yard from the back and side pastures.


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## Latestarter

So I'm all out of hay... I pulled out all the pallets to clean and air/sun dry them and let the ground underneath get some sun and air. When I load the feeder, it normally lasts 2-3 days. So everything has been drying out that long. Called my regular source and guess what... He's all out of alfalfa.   I guess there was a run when we started into all that wet weather and as such, none could be delivered. He's not getting a new shipment till Saturday. As a result, I spent this morning searching online for anywhere close that had (reasonably priced) square bales of alfalfa. Finally found some 114 miles away down in Kaufman. I called and they have the large squares @ ~100lbs vice the 65lb ones I normally get (and built the hay feeder to hold). The hay feeder will only hold about 2/3 of the bale and it's so high the roof doesn't close completely... Sure nice looking alfalfa though and the goats seem pleased with it. Aside from the gas to get there and back, it was only about a penny a pound more expensive. $21 a bale as opposed to $12 a bale for the smaller ones.

Oh well, goats gotta eat, so I asked when I could get some. She said like after 4pm today. I was like  I have to drive over 100 miles and 2 hours each way and do NOT want to deal with traffic in both directions. Not to mention the goats have no hay to eat till dinner tonight when I get back... So she called her DH and he said he'd be there at noon if I could get there. I said I would be and arrived at 11:30. There was someone else at the house besides DH and he helped me load 6 bales and I was on my way back home. So the goats got fed at lunch time (late lunch) rather than dinner time.

I have to say, I'm VERY impressed/happy with the feeder. Though there is still some waste, it's very minor compared to before. I'd say the equivalent of less than a flake total. Maybe less than 3/4 of a flake. I find when they've emptied the fencing, I just leave it empty and they start to clean up everything that's dropped into the catch tray. They still pull out stems and drop them on the ground, but it's nowhere near what it was.

ETA forgot to add, first thing this morning while there was still frost in the shade, I went ahead and applied the expanding foam to all the cracks and holes where the red wasps were entering/exiting the eaves. I did see one sitting outside on the trim late this afternoon but none entering or exiting. Hopefully the ones trapped inside will starve and I won't have them nesting around here.


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## greybeard

The swallows have returned to their last year's nest here. The 1st pair showed up a couple days ago, another 2-3  today.


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## Alaskan

I love swallows


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## Latestarter

Got 4 "H" braces completed this afternoon before my back said take a break. Supposed to be a chance of more rain tomorrow. If not I'll do some more. May just do more anyway. The first one took the longest. Never done them before, always suburbia before and 6' privacy fencing. Got it pretty much figured out now.


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## Devonviolet

Good job, LS!!!


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## CntryBoy777

Looks good there Joe!!.....once ya get a system working ya can move right along....I just kept seeing the fence being stretched to keep me going.....


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## Latestarter

With what's done now I can complete the fencing on one side and hang one gate. Next shot should get another side (or two) ready for fence stretching. Nice to have better weather. On a side note, the red wasps managed to thwart my expanding spray foam somehow.   And they are all over the place and pestering me.


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## CntryBoy777

We just suck em up with the lady bugs in the vacuum with a couple of moth balls in it....they be dead within a couple of hrs....we've tried everything and that works the best for us. Every one ya get now is many more that won't be around for summer....once they start nest building the wasp Math surely starts.


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## greybeard

Corners look good. I've done a couple with the high horizontal brace but you could probably tell from my place, that I'm not a big fan of them over time.


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## Mini Horses

Nice looking H's.    I love those gates with the "fence" bottoms.  Don't have any but, wish mine were those.  I have added fence to some of the pole gates.   With horses, you don't need more than the pole -- Goats, different matter.

Besides, some of mine were CL super buys!


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## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> Goats, different matter.


Chickens too


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> The first one took the longest. Never done them before


Same here. But once you've thought through and built the first one, it gets easy ... until you hit the next rock in the hole.


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> the red wasps managed to thwart my expanding spray foam somehow.  And they are all over the place and pestering me


The red wasps (and stinky Japanese Beetles, for that matter) are out in full force!     This afternoon, there was one flying around the Muscovy ducks. They love flying bugs . . . but not red wasps!  When it flew near their heads, they ducked.


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## greybeard

We have both our front porch bug zappers running tonight. They're busy busy busy too. Tomorrow morning, the bluebirds and cardinals will clean up the tiny corpses off the porch railings and deck.
My niece's husband has one hanging over the little pond in their back yard...he has some really fat bream in that pond because of it.

I used a whole container of fire ant killer today just in the yard and garden space....they are busy too.

Just to show you 'other folks' how bad the fire ant problem is in the South, here's the results of a survey Texas A&M over a decade ago and I doubt there's been much improvement since then...I think one of the areas was in Joe's 'back yard' too.



 
(Mt Pleasant is Joe's stomping ground. Mt Bonnell is near San Antonio.
Joe's area had nearly 300 fire ant mounds per acre......


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## Wehner Homestead

That’s a lot of fahr ants!!! No thanks!


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## CntryBoy777

We wage war on those every year here, also....nowhere near 300/acre, but there always seem to be at least ~50 and tho we knock hills out they always seem to reappear in another place. They were much worse in Florida when we lived there. The bugs are getting active here too.


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## Latestarter

Yup them ants sure know where the best place to live is in TX... They're all movin' in here  Lucky us huh? There may have been some change for the better since that survey. Either that or the previous owner did a lot of eradication here because I don't have 300 mounds per acre here (that I'm aware of). Maybe 25-50. Maybe this isn't the place to live anymore...    Wonder where they moved to?  I wish the damned moles/voles would move on too! 

So went to cook me a late night snack last night and right as I got the butter & bacon fat melted in the pan, the power goes out. Guess that's what I get for thinkin' bout cookin' with a huge T-storm firing up right overhead. They started about 10pm and lasted till ~3-4am Not really sure as there was no power. The first storm to pass was the worst and dropped hail. Ended up with an inch from the rain and it's still pretty heavy overcast but the sun is tryin' to burn through. No fence work today. So my late snack turned into breakfast (2 thin sliced loin pork chops seasoned and fried).

Hope everyone remembered to turn their clocks ahead last night. So thankful the govt has made it so we have an extra hour of sunlight to play with.   Wish they'd add a couple more hours so I could get "more accomplished".   Funny, the time on my bedside clock had absolutely no effect on when I got out of bed... I guess I slept in an extra hour this morning. Doesn't feel like it though. Feels just about the same as every other morning.

Hay feeder fared well in the storm last night. The hay stayed dry and no tipping over. Didn't expect it to tip, since it's pretty heavy. Goats stayed nice and dry in their shelter. Plywood back wall is working quite well. Dot is getting closer to kidding. Starting to see some swelling & creamy discharge and she lays down and "talks" to the babies. She talks to them while eating too. The rest of the herd got their CD&T on Friday. April is as wide as a house... She was already a wide load but now she waddles when she walks. Bang is really widening out as well.


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## farmerjan

Looking at the weather for the eastern half, and the storms that y'all got last night,  are headed this way.  BUT it is supposed to start out as rain, change to a "wintry mix"  then after midnight change to snow and put anywhere from 2 to 10 inches down.  I mean really.... after 70's in Feb now we are gonna get our "winter" ????  Most are saying 3-6" but it is supposed to be a wet heavy snow. 
REALLY,  snow now?   The weather and the months of normal progression for winter sure have gotten mixed up this year.

I hauled extra feed to the barn, filled the water troughs yesterday for the calves that are in on the nurse cows, got extra shavings put down in the 2 big pens....will put the nurse cows back out late this afternoon so they can go to the hay piles and won't make so much mess in the barn or kick out a calf that they take a notion to do. 
Have one that is a real witch and she is leaving when I send her 2 calves off... Another that is going to be going dry soon and then 2 heifers and one cow that will be coming fresh in May, so will need the room in the barn anyway for them so I can get calves started on them.  Have never had this many nurse cows so it is an ongoing challenge to get the timing right.


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## Latestarter

Here's some pics of the summer burn from last year when my son and his family was here. That pile was well over my head @ ~8' tall. That's one of my grandsons standing inside the back yard fence watching me light it off. You can see the "down wind" side was where it got lit. Flames leaning to the right.



Here was after burning for several hours. As it burned down, we used the rake to push everything in toward the center. You can see the garden hose we had available to water down the surrounding grass to keep the heat of the fire from drying it out and setting it alight. That's me, my son (youngest of 3 kids), and his 4 kids.



Here's the remainder of the pile after dark down to mostly coals. The grands were using those sticks to toast marshmallows to make smores. That's my granddaughter with her dad, my only son. He did most of the toasting as that bed of coals was so hot you couldn't stay close to it without getting burned.


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## Latestarter

So, just back from a home depot, wally world, bank, gas station, Chinese food buffet dinner run (only meal today)... Built 8 more "H" braces today and wired up 3. Couldn't do more because I ran out of fencing staples. Reason for HD inclusion in the above mentioned run. Will be back at it again tomorrow and hope to get those five wired up and round the corner to start on yard posts and fencing. The pasture is so swampy that had I not had 4 wheel drive, the truck would still be down back. I'm sore & tired. Also dehydrated... Sucking down 1/2 & 1/2 crystal light iced tea and power aid (grape).

Hope everyone had a great Monday. Jacuzzi is on the fritz again  so no hot soak for me.


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## Wehner Homestead

Getting there! I know you’re trying to hit it hard before the summer Texas heat makes it hard to get much done during the hottest part of the day. Your herd should be growing soon too!


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## Pastor Dave

All that sounds like it's justified because of the hot tub soak. Gotta get that fixed quick Joe! We bought a house once upon a time, and began remodeling. Poured a large patio at abt 16'x25'. Then decided on a place to set a hot tub, and mixed up quickrete to add the location adjacent to tbe new patio. It was a Softub brand hot tub with a lid and canvas straps to lock down for childproof, etc. The pump was insulated and separate that sat behind. It was covered in same color vinyl coating. The convenient thing is that it was 110 and could plug in any standard outlet. The pump heated up and discharged into the tub creating the hot water. The intake to the pump cooled it down. It fit through standard sized doorways on its side, and one guy could roll it and tote it or assemble it. We left it 7 yrs ago when we moved. Oh, how I miss it.


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## greybeard

We have Jacuzzi tub in the bathroom. I've been in it twice in 9 years and probably never will get in it again. It too, has a heater built in to the supply line. Wife uses it about once /month..maybe.





We have a shower directly across from this picture, that we use 99% of the time.
The jet tub, IMO was a waste of $$ and space for us.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Built 8 more "H" braces today and wired up 3.


Including digging the holes?? You SHOULD be dead tired!!!


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## Latestarter

The vertical posts had already been sunk. Just the chain saw work and attaching the horizontal brace logs, then the cross wiring. Got up late, stiff and a bit sore this morning so postponed continuing till tomorrow. Gonna do some other chores instead today.


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## Latestarter

So yeah... still stiff and sore but forced myself out into the horrid weather today (sunny, light breeze, ~65°f, clear blue sky) and soggy ground conditions. Finished up cross wiring the remaining 5 "H" braces, tried to pull some old T posts unsuccessfully (buried in tree roots), broke off a rotted fence post, started to dig out around the "stump" only to hit water ~6" down. Removed ~50' of 4 strand barbed wire, cut it up (non rusted) and folded up (the rusted) and brought up to the garbage barrel at the head of the driveway. Figure I'm paying for weekly pickup and don't generate enough for but 1 pickup monthly... So I'll start eliminating some of the garbage around here that way.

Hope everyone had a happy "pie" day (3.14 - π) Anyone do anything mathematically special? Wasn't a good day for Stephen Hawking, the theoretical physicist... He passed earlier today. Then again, I don't know what kind of pain he dealt with, maybe it was good for him that he's finally released from his crippled body and at rest?  

Guess tomorrow (today) I'll go get back to digging out the rotted post, replace, brace and cross wire, pound a few more T posts, and then get ready to start rolling out and stretching fence. Need to make a run to home depot and pick up a smallish bolt/lock cutter to cut the fencing with. Been using the cutter function on the fencing pliers and it works, but I've got about a dozen blood blisters on palms and fingers from pinching skin with the damned things. Since I'll be replacing a butt load of old wire, I need a better, faster way to cut it into manageable pieces.

Not going to be able to use the truck to drive around in the pasture either... It's so wet still that I'm leaving huge ruts any time I drive through any "low" spot. I'll try with the lawn tractor with tow behind cart and see if that does less damage. If that doesn't work, I'm gonna be on foot, which will not make me happy.


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## Mike CHS

I guess there are some good things about having so much stone in our soil.  If I get two dry days in a row, it's good enough to drive on.  At least you are making some steady progress.


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## Baymule

Joe your braces look good! I am proud for you that you are getting this done. There are lots of steps to do to get a fence built, it sure looks easy when someone else is doing it. But when it is you building fence, all the sore spots show up, everything takes way more time than you ever imagined and it seems like you'll never get done. That first morning that you see your goats grazing on their new pasture will make it all worth it. 

You don't know how blessed you are to already have a well established pasture with lush grasses. We have worked so hard to get grass to grow on our beach sand and still have a long ways to go. You have to actually_ mow_ grass! Next time you are out there mowing, sweating, hot and dirty, just think about us and our dry sand and maybe you won't mind it so much. LOL


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Wasn't a good day for Stephen Hawking, the theoretical physicist... He passed earlier today. Then again, I don't know what kind of pain he dealt with, maybe it was good for him that he's finally released from his crippled body and at rest?


He had to be a special person to deal with his nerve disease for so many years. He was diagnosed when he was working on his PhD (earned at the age of 23!), they were not sure he would live long enough to finish his thesis. But he made another 53 years under very difficult circumstances. I'm sure I could not handle that.



Latestarter said:


> Since I'll be replacing a butt load of old wire, I need a better, faster way to cut it into manageable pieces.


Good plan. Are you using field fence?  I already had some bigger bolt cutters, can't imagine how much fun those 10g top and bottom wires would be with the fence pliers.



Latestarter said:


> It's so wet still that I'm leaving huge ruts any time I drive through any "low" spot. I'll try with the lawn tractor with tow behind cart and see if that does less damage. If that doesn't work, I'm gonna be on foot, which will not make me happy.


Caution! I've bogged down my GT (with the mower deck on) in very wet clay. Probably would have gotten stuck even without the deck installed. I was lucky, I was inline with a tree and since the winch for the blower stays installed I was able to run a rope to the tree and winch out. Had to make several "passes" because I'd cut the winch wire to about 5'. The ferrule on the original 100' would jamb up in the winch when lifting the blower, the travel needed is only a few inches. And of course when the ferrule jammed the fuse blew. I did find a 30A circuit breaker fuse so at least I didn't have to carry a bunch of spare fuses and replace them constantly.


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## greybeard

I like something light and rugged to cut wire and small cable with, that would fit (and STAY) in my back pocket. I use HK Porter cutters for 12 ga HT wire and any barbed wire. They ain't cheap but they beat the heck out of the cutting grooves of fencing pliers. 
https://www.amazon.com/Porter-Pocket-Wire-Cable-Cutter/dp/B0009Z88OQ

But, if you also have a need for the small bolt cutters, they would work too.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks for the call GB and I did look for those wire cutters but all they had were cheaper versions that would not have lasted. I got to thinking, since I'm also going to need to cut cattle panels I might as well get a tool that can handle that task as well. Ended up with a $50 set of bolt cutters. Pretty sure they'll handle about anything I'll routinely need to cut. Same size pair that they use at TSC to cut cattle panels. Did some more work on the submerged rotten post today but have yet to unearth it. Looked like I hit an underground spring as I could actually see the water running out of the side wall into the hole. Like a water tap on low pressure. Trying to dig out wet, submerged clay around a rotting post, amongst tree roots, really sucks. If I had a back hoe, I'd dig it out with that.   What really sucks is I have at least 2 more rotted posts to go after this one. Both also located in low areas, so bound to be waterlogged. 

Supposed to have off and on T-storms over the next 3 days so my chances of it actually drying out seem slim. One advantage is the temps are supposed to be such that I can leave the heat and AC off. Might have to build a temp fence at the lower end of the "driving alley" so I can finish and let the goats out to scavenge. I want/need to start stringing fence & getting gates hung.

Got a text out of the blue from my younger sister yesterday. Guess she's been out in CO helping out my ex Sis-in-Law since back in Nov. She (SIL) went in to have a hip operation and the doc screwed up and she ended up having her leg amputated below the knee. Gotta believe there's a law suit and financial compensation due on that fiasco. Anyway, my sis's DH went out to get her (sis) and I guess they're planning on coming through this way on Friday and want to drop in for a visit.  I texted her back my address and explained that it would be easiest if they get off the highway and call me and I'll lead them here. Haven't heard anything back since that.  So who knows... maybe they'll stop in, maybe they won't. She's really the only member of my immediate family that I have any contact with, and that's sporadic at best. We text best wishes at the holidays...


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## Wehner Homestead

I hope for your sake you get to see her and it’s a great visit!


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## CntryBoy777

Are ya needing to use the hole those rotting posts are in?....if not, then just cut it off even with the ground with a chainsaw and call it good....I would. If they stop by I hope ya have a good visit.....


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## Baymule

I hope your sister stops by and y'all get to visit. Ditto on what @CntryBoy777 said on the posts. just cut them off.


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## Latestarter

Wish I could plant a new one beside it. I was able to do so on the other side as it only affected pasture. Can't on this side though as it's the delineation between the residence property and the agricultural land/pasture. It's the NW corner "H" post of the front yard where the "driving lane" starts in the front pasture, leading to the back pasture. The lane is fenced on both sides, the one I'm trying to finish being the yard boundary. It's surveyed out with pins. The other side of the lane is already for fencing and will be part of the first pasture abutting the back yard property line where the present pen is enclosed.


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## greybeard

I just dig down enough to get a chain and halfhitch around the rotted post and pull it out with a teepost jack. You'll need a 2x10 probably to put the jack on so it doesn't sink


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## Pastor Dave

Gee GB, 04:22! You were up early, or stayed up late. Either way, wee hours of the morning.


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## greybeard

Pastor Dave said:


> Gee GB, 04:22! You were up early, or stayed up late. Either way, wee hours of the morning.


bad dream bad dreams..whatcha gonna do when they come to you?


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## Baymule

Since that rotted post and stump are right where you need to put your post, you need some mega termites to eat that up for you!  Failing that, keep digging.


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## Wehner Homestead

I think what GB said is worth a shot! I’ve seen the guys wrestle a post out of the ground at different times. My Papaw is notorious for making harebrained decisions that put everyone in danger in these situations...he’d probably either hook the truck to it with us all standing around watching or stick a chainsaw in the hole to cut it out bit by bit. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good guy, my dad just has to keep him on track safely. It’s a wonder my dad survived his childhood! 
Have I mentioned that he always rigged something?! We’d work cattle and the catch mechanism would be oiled too much from him preparing so the first four he caught would walk on out when he let go of the headcatch handle or he’d fail to replace the floor in the chute and not tell Dad and the bull would try to walk off with the whole set-up. One of my “favorite” stories is they had cattle all over three counties at one time “with no fences (there were fences but they weren’t going to keep anything in) and Papaw would drop Dad off at a field with a tractor to bushhog all day. He’d throw Dad a Pepsi while Dad was driving the tractor down the road to the next pasture, as he was passing him!” That would be all Dad got to eat or drink for the day. Papaw also liked to take a passel of nieces and nephews that had never seen cows before to round up a wild bunch. Those relatives can tell some stories too! 

Anyway, good luck with the post and I hope you don’t have to dig the whole thing out!


----------



## greybeard

The thing about rotted off posts..........
The usually rot off right at ground level, but below ground they still have a strong core. It won't stand much lateral movement but will withstand a lot of axial stress, meaning the fibers will allow you to pull it straight up. 
Biggest problem I've encounter pulling them is the vacuum formed when the ground is wet. It can be a considerable force to overcome. If you can dig a hole down just one side of the old post, you can usually get them out pretty easily.

My forest side fence does nothing of any real substance, since I moved over to the inside of the long drive and put up another fence the entire west side of the property so I don't have to open or close any gates driving in or out. The original fence tho, does mark the property line, and it's the only reason I try to keep it up. My sister tho, up near where the county  rd ends, has no interest in keeping her forest side fences up (it ties in to my property line fence) but she drove 1" rebar in at the boundary to permanently mark the line, and that is common in this area. I do the same, and when the surveyors came thru for the original survey, they drove in little steel rods, over which I dropped  1 1/2" galvanized pipe and drove down. Fences are not used or recognized as legal metes and bounds on any Texas survey anyway.  (Ironically, trees used to be..My first survey said things like; "from a point 2 varas east of a White Oak tree, thence East 212.5 varas to a big sweetgum tree..." 
(The Feds by the way, still just walk along and tack up little yellow signs on trees on their side of the line stating "US National Forest property beyond this point" and go down the line every few years with a can of red paint with which to mark a few trees along the line.  They don't bother with a survey plat...they just walk it off and guesstimate.


----------



## greybeard

Wehner Homestead said:


> I think what GB said is worth a shot! I’ve seen the guys wrestle a post out of the ground at different times. My Papaw is notorious for making harebrained decisions that put everyone in danger in these situations...he’d probably either hook the truck to it with us all standing around watching or stick a chainsaw in the hole to cut it out bit by bit. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a good guy, my dad just has to keep him on track safely. It’s a wonder my dad survived his childhood!
> Have I mentioned that he always rigged something?! We’d work cattle and the catch mechanism would be oiled too much from him preparing so the first four he caught would walk on out when he let go of the headcatch handle or he’d fail to replace the floor in the chute and not tell Dad and the bull would try to walk off with the whole set-up. One of my “favorite” stories is they had cattle all over three counties at one time “with no fences (there were fences but they weren’t going to keep anything in) and Papaw would drop Dad off at a field with a tractor to bushhog all day. He’d throw Dad a Pepsi while Dad was driving the tractor down the road to the next pasture, as he was passing him!” That would be all Dad got to eat or drink for the day. Papaw also liked to take a passel of nieces and nephews that had never seen cows before to round up a wild bunch. Those relatives can tell some stories too!
> 
> Anyway, good luck with the post and I hope you don’t have to dig the whole thing out!


That brings back some good (and bad) memories. 
Nothing like seeing an old cow walking around a pasture with a wooden headgate still closed on her neck. 

Many of the things we (Dad, my brother & I) did back in the 60s would probably get me booted off this board if related in any accuracy at all..back before political correctness was the norm, (which is why I didn't bother with a BYH retro journal I once toyed with in my mind) 

For several years, our 'cattle working facility' was a tree, ropes, a couple of (alleged) cow dogs and one old mare. We had raised some eyebrows and no little ire, when we fenced off 124 acres of our property in a county that was still all open range by state law because the previous owners had never fenced it and this bottom land grew some good grass that every cattleman was getting use of.  There was some pretty rough cattle running this area and the National Forest at the time...thousands of head.  Yearly roundup, sorting, and branding was a sight to behold tho. Dozens of stock and horse trailers lined up along the highway to drive and loadout calves to carry to the sale barn. Arguments and fights were common, trying to decide whose calves were whose, and the domestic hogs that were also run open range were even worse. 


We didn't live on the property at the time, (lived 40 miles south of here)  and every weekend, first thing we had to do was run out all the cattle that weren't ours, fix the fences that had been cut, or put back up the gates that someone had tied to a truck and drug down so their cattle could get in.


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## Wehner Homestead

Wow! Gotta love dishonest people!


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## Latestarter

The post is rotted pretty much the entire length down that I've exposed so far. Only the very center core is "solid". I've been breaking outside sections away with the post hole diggers. Nothing really to get the/a chain around that it would get a hold of. 

So late this morning I stuck a rack of nicely seasoned St Louis style pork ribs in the oven at 275 for 3 hours. When that part was done I took them out and gave them a nice coating of BBQ sauce and stuck em' right back in for another hour and 20 minutes. They got done in time for me to have a helping before doing goat chores and 2nds when the chores were done (after washing hands...). Fall off the bone tender. So I have ~1/2 a rack to warm back up for lunch tomorrow (unless I cave and eat them later tonight ). And I wonder why I can't lose weight... 

No word from my sister... No idea where she is or when/if she'll be in this area. Not that this was totally unanticipated... She is a bit of a free spirit and doesn't follow schedules too well... even her own. But she has a great heart and is all about helping everyone else but herself. So who knows... she'll either stop here or not. Only time will tell.


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## Wehner Homestead

Maybe she’ll show up in the next few days...on her own schedule.


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## Latestarter

oh... forgot... pics or it never happened.


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## greybeard

Wehner Homestead said:


> Wow! Gotta love dishonest people!


Well, you gotta understand, this was open range, and this property was probably 'open' for at least a couple of decades before my father bought it. 
For anyone that hasn't lived in an open range state, all this may seem a bit strange, but that's just the way it was. We were bucking history and we knew it wasn't going to be easy. 
When a county enacts a stock law (ours did in the very early 70s) livestock owners are required to keep their livestock contained..the wording just says "not permitted to run at large" . 
Even today, State Law only specifies the kind of fence or fence standard required to keep OTHER people's stock out of your place, not keep your stock in. 
This is THE State of Texas Statute on fences:
_Section 143.028 provides the following guidelines: (a) A person is not required to fence against animals that are not permitted to run at large. Except as otherwise provided by this section, a fence is sufficient for purposes of this chapter if it is sufficient to keep out ordinary livestock permitted to run at large. (b) In order to be sufficient, a fence must be at least four feet high and comply with the following requirements: 
1. A barbed wire fence must consist of three wires on posts no more than 30 feet apart, with one or more stays between every two posts; 
2. A picket fence must consist of pickets that are not more than six inches apart; 
3. A board fence must consist of three boards not less than five inches wide and one inch thick; and 
4. A rail fence must consist of four rails.18_
State statute does however tell row croppers what kind of fence they are required to build to keep animals out of their crops:



_Sec. 143.001.  SUFFICIENT FENCE REQUIRED.  Except as provided by this chapter for an area in which a local option stock law has been adopted, each gardener or farmer shall make a sufficient fence around cleared land in cultivation that is at least five feet high and will prevent hogs from passing through._
Does that mean I can let my cattle run loose?
NO! We have a county wide stock law, but nowhere in either county or State statute does it say how or what kind of fence I have to have..only that I am not allowed to "knowingly" allow livestock to roam freely. 

The whole thing is here:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/AG/htm/AG.143.htm


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## Wehner Homestead

Gotta love lawmakers!


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## CntryBoy777

Latestarter said:


> oh... forgot... pics or it never happened.
> View attachment 45449


Yeh....and just think....if ya'd invited me to eat with ya ya wouldn't have had any leftovers....


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## Wehner Homestead

I was going to say that he claimed it was a full rack. I only see a half rack!


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## Latestarter

Sorry... forgot to get a full rack "tease ya" pic before eating the 1st 1/2...  Sorry about not getting the pic, NOT sorry about eating them


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## Latestarter

So my sister and her hubby did show up... Sunday afternoon. She never was real great at following a schedule. We went to the local Chinese buffet for a bite, they came and toured the house and property, dropped off a bunch of stuff I had given to my parents over the years that my mother is now returning (dad died several years ago), and then headed on their way to continue home to GA. I guess my mom was so eager that she mailed the boxes of stuff to my sister in CO at my X s-in-laws place to ensure that she'd get them to me  I guess she figures this way we don't have to fight over it when she's dead, though I kind of look at it as a slap in the face, since the stuff was gifted and I've been estranged for several years. 

Goats are getting closer to kidding, Dot is about 4-5 days out. 

The rotten fence post hole is filled to near the top with water (18-24" deep in the partially dug out hole). May have to partition off the fence down at the other end and wait for it to dry out some before I can do that post and section of fence.  No idea how much rain I got out of the last storms... would guess ~1/2". The creek is still running and the swales on the property are still very wet. The wind has been ripping all day today... Had hoped that might help dry things out somewhat faster.

Coyotes haven't killed off all the deer as I still have 3 or more that visit on occasion. Mel alerts me when they're down back if I haven't seen them there. Haven't seen any fawns yet though.

Got a sweet craving & I had some whipped cream (canned) in the frig, so I made a chocolate pudding pie in a graham cracker crust pie shell. Just had my first slice.  That ought to add a few pounds over the coming days. Gotta take some big chunk of protein out of the freezer to thaw... Just did a turkey so will limit selection to prime rib roast, pork shoulder, roasting chicken, or smoked ham. Guess I'll sleep on it and decide for tomorrow. That way it will be thawed for cooking on Wed.

Despite the wet ground, I believe I'm going to start stretching fence tomorrow.


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## Wehner Homestead

I think I’m glad you saw your sister...I hate that the visit had to be tainted. 

Sounds like Dot and Snowflake are on about the same schedule. Are you doing a kissing thread or posting here? 

Trying to figure out what I should cook here??? I may do a fish fry tonight. Hmmm...

I also need to start fencing for the Does. I want them to have a separate area. DH will have to help me though since I’m so out of shape.


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## frustratedearthmother

Wehner Homestead said:


> Are you doing a kissing thread


I don't think we've ever had a kissing thread!


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## Wehner Homestead

Oops! Autocorrect on my phone must’ve helped with that one! I’ll leave it for entertainment but I truly meant KIDDING thread!


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## promiseacres

got to love auto correct....


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## CntryBoy777

I understand how ya feel LS about the returned things....we went thru the same with my parents. Mom explained it this way.....over the yrs things collect....pictures, cards, and gifts....they all have meaning and ya hate to pick and choose as to which to keep and which ones to let go of....as time goes by the pictures collect in boxes as well do the cards....gifts need to be cleaned, dusted, and polished and things aren't as easy to keep up with it all as the body slows down. The returning is just their way of getting things off their mind and returning what has meaning to those that gave it while the brain is still clear to remember.....this eliminates clutter and cleaning, but moreover the responsibility they feel of maintaining it. Would ya feel better if they returned it, knowing it meant something to them all these yrs, or, finding out it was hauled to the dump and ya was never told?......it is all about them setting their affairs in order while they still can..... 
I can certainly attest it isn't any easier getting it back after they have passed on....I received it with the love it was originally given with, understood, and will take it to the dump myself....one day.....


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## promiseacres

CntryBoy777 said:


> Mom explained it this way.....over the yrs things collect....pictures, cards, and gifts....they all have meaning and ya hate to pick and choose as to which to keep and which ones to let go of....as time goes by the pictures collect in boxes as well do the cards....gifts need to be cleaned, dusted, and polished and things aren't as easy to keep up with it all as the body slows down. The returning is just their way of getting things off their mind and returning what has meaning to those that gave it while the brain is still clear to remember.....this eliminates clutter and cleaning, but moreover the responsibility they feel of maintaining it. Would ya feel better if they returned it, knowing it meant something to them all these yrs, or, finding out it was hauled to the dump and ya was never told?......it is all about them setting their affairs in order while they still can.....
> I can certainly attest it isn't any easier getting it back after they have passed on....I received it with the love it was originally given with, understood, and will take it to the dump myself....one day.....


I too have struggled with a mom that does this, too Thanks for sharing. @CntryBoy777 sometimes we need to stop and think about another's perspective.


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## CntryBoy777

One of the most difficult things for me to do was to fill the role of one in need @promiseacres , as in growing up we were taught to make do with what ya have and where ya were. My Mom was a person that had to feel needed and if she thought nobody needed or wanted her help she felt useless and of no count....to use her terminology. This intensified as she aged and after the heart attacks and me moving back here she tried to do things for me, but I would decline and make do. Then it dawned on me that my feelings of wanting her to just relax and enjoy her rest just wasn't what was happening and she was becoming depressed.....so, I began to ask her for certain things that she enjoyed cooking and would take them. Her cooking wasn't the same as it used to be because of memory and forgetting certain spices or too much of this or that, but it didn't matter....it made her feel needed and she had a purpose. It was very difficult as I saw her declining, but tho she would never ask....I started cooking big meals and then sharing with Mom and Dad to save her from having to cook. I still kick myself for not going fishing with her the last time she walked to the pond....we used to go together all the time....but, my health had me down that day and I stayed home....of course we didn't know at the time it would be her last trip, but in hindsight I sure wish I would've gone. Some things get clearer to us as we age and get closer to being in that position....just like being a teenager without kids, then once ya have them ya see and realize ya really didn't know as much as ya had thought....especially when ya are dealing with a mini-me....


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## Baymule

I can't stand knick-nacs and collectibles. If it has to be dusted, I don't want it. I have made this plain and clear to my kids. They can give me a gift card to Tractor Supply, I'll buy chicken feed or something. Or a gift card to a grocery store, I'll eat it, flush it down the toilet and it's gone. 

T-posts, 5 pound boxes of screws, lumber--these are the things that warm my heart. LOL


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## Latestarter

So I finished up the first small piece of fencing today, hung the first gate, and laid out the next/first long length of fencing. It's stapled at the far end & tomorrow I'll hook the stretcher to it and hopefully completely finish that length. I didn't realize just how much work is involved with attaching 13 strands of wire around corner posts. By the time I'm done fencing here, I think I'll have a lifetime's worth of fencing behind me and no desire to do any more. I only did a single "H" brace today and the gate, and I'm sore and tired. 

GB I want to thank you sincerely for the stretcher bars. They worked like a champ and I'm sure are tenfold better than the 2x4 boards bolted together I had made, would have been. Those 2x4s got repurposed into the hay feeder. Tried using the come alongs but they were pretty badly rusted. So I ended up using 3 ratchet straps instead. They worked just fine.

Anyway, supposed to be more rain headed in this coming weekend. I hope to be able to continue doing a stretch of fencing each day. The next length (for tomorrow) is about 240'. No gates tomorrow... the next gate is after the section for Thursday.

Ended up throwing that ham I took out into the oven ~8pm when I came in from chores. I then steamed up a couple of heads of broccoli to eat while I waited for the ham to cook. Had slices of ham with mustard for dinner at 10-10:30.


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## greybeard

Oil up the comealongs and maybe they'll be ok. Or just trash 'em. 
Did I send both stretcher bars or just one..I don't remember.
I showed you how I was tieing the terminal ends..no more twisting and sore fingers for me. Works for net wire too.
gripple


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## Bruce

Would be nice to have a backhoe to dig that rotted post out and a trench to drain the water!

So @greybeard, there isn't any need to have the wrapped wire tight?? I GUESS the fence staples are holding the tension of the fence??


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## Latestarter

GB, you sent both stretcher bars... do you need one back? Yes, I remember the gripple you showed me. That would be a quite substantial time (& finger) savings. I didn't have a major problem with doing them except the very bottom one as I have to dig a trench along side the post to allow the twisting tool to rotate around the fence wire with the bitter end. & the lower wires as my back and knees are really giving me hell right now after several days of abusing each. I haven't "hurt" my back but the muscles are very stiff and sore. I'm really hoping that I don't throw it out.

Today I hand pulled the fencing as tight as I could then hooked up the stretcher bar and commenced to pulling. The fence length is ~230-240 feet. I pulled out about 6 feet before it was tight. I'm having a real bear of a time with the damned fence T post clips that came with the T posts. They are so fricken short and twisted at an odd angle to be able to clip the fencing to the T post easily. I can barely get one twist on one side and the other looks like crap as it's bent wrong to be twisted neatly. I'm gonna have to devote the better part of a day just to do those. I went back to TSC and complained about the clips and she gave me a free pkg of name brand ones to try. When I got them home it turns out they are those alternate ones that were discussed on here that requires that special 2 pronged tool to install.

Bruce, when using the puller bar it has all strands pulled tight. The top and bottom strands are heavier gauge. I staple the wires to the post before cutting any of them. Then you cut the wires and wrap them to the post one at a time starting at the center and working out. The top and bottom wires are the last to be cut and since at that point all the others are already attached to the post, as well as being stapled, they don't retract.

My back and knees were so sore by early afternoon that I took a break for the rest of the day and ran the lawn tractor till dark. I'll be back to work on the fence again tomorrow. While mowing I looked at my rotten fence post hole and the water is down to a couple of inches. Might be able to get back to work on it before the next wet weather gets here early next week.

As an aside, I'm officially on kid watch starting tomorrow. Dot could go any time starting tomorrow (Day 147). Rechecked the dates & 150 days is the 25th. That is of course assuming that RJ was effective on the day he arrived when he spent hours chasing Dot trying to mount her. Hope it doesn't go much later than that as we're supposed to have T-storms starting early next week.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Bruce, when using the puller bar it has all strands pulled tight. The top and bottom strands are heavier gauge. I staple the wires to the post before cutting any of them. Then you cut the wires and wrap them to the post one at a time starting at the center and working out. The top and bottom wires are the last to be cut and since at that point all the others are already attached to the post, as well as being stapled, they don't retract.


That is how I did it as well. I guess the wrapping back to the fence is just "tying off" given how the guy in the video just pushed the wire into the gripple and cut it off?


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## Baymule

LS when I was clipping the bottom of the T-posts I used a short stool to sit on. Like the style a child places in front of the bathroom sink so they can reach the sink. Because my knees are crap, it was a big help. Then to get up, I grabbed the T-post and pulled up. I couldn’t bend my knees nor could I kneel, so it was my best option. It might help save your back.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> GB, you sent both stretcher bars... do you need one back? Yes, I remember the gripple you showed me. That would be a quite substantial time (& finger) savings.


No, but if if I ever do, I know where to come to get it.



Latestarter said:


> Today I hand pulled the fencing as tight as I could then hooked up the stretcher bar and commenced to pulling. The fence length is ~230-240 feet. I pulled out about 6 feet before it was tight.


Pay attention to and watch the little pre-formed bends in the horizontal runs of the wire--probably have one between each vertical stay. You do NOT want to pull so much that you straighten them out, but you do want to pull enough that they are a little less of a 'hump'. Those pre-formed bends are what keeps your horizontal run tight.







This fence, I can tell just by looking, was not pulled tight enough.
http://i.bosscdn.com/product/56/57/1e/75e3e702fa279e68c892f667af.jpg@4e_220w_220h.src|95Q.webp

This one is tight and is fixed knot HT..notice how far apart you can go between posts with HT:


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I'm having a real bear of a time with the damned fence T post clips that came with the T posts. They are so fricken short and twisted at an odd angle to be able to clip the fencing to the T post easily. I can barely get one twist on one side and the other looks like crap as it's bent wrong to be twisted neatly.



You can imagine how many tee post clips I've put in. The only time I've ever had trouble with ties was when I had a young fellow helping me and we were driving tee posts with my backhoe bucket. I wasn't watching him close enough and he stood 4-5 of them up backwards and the teeposts clips wouldn't go around the post and reach the wire. (the nubs on the flat of the post have to face the wire) Pretty sure you didn't do that tho.....right?


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## Latestarter

right... The T posts are facing the right way. Guess I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and do the best I can with the crap clips. I could cut a couple thousand pieces of wire from the roll I bought to use for "H" tensioning... Then "twist tie" the damned fence to the T posts... 

Went out for dinner tonight. Had an order of buffalo wings followed by a rack of ribs with onion rings on the side. Someone is out back popping caps right now. No idea what they're emptying clips on at 11:30 at night.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I could cut a couple thousand pieces of wire from the roll I bought to use for "H" tensioning... Then "twist tie" the damned fence to the T posts...


Been there, done it, got the memory of really sore hands as the stupid prize.
In 2011, it was dry as  bone here and everyone and their uncle was building/rebuilding fence. You couldn't find wooden or tee posts or teepost clips here.  Finally went up to Producers at Bryan and got lucky and came home with enough Tee posts to do my job but they didn't have any clips.
I had a little roll of 12.5ga ht, maybe 10 coils in the roll so I made a bunch of tie offs all around the roll with safety wire so the thing wouldn't turn into an unbound slinky when I cut it. Drug my chop saw out and started cutting, 10 at a time and in about 10 minutes probably had 1000 pieces 6 inches long. Never again!!  Clips are an alloy, something in them to make em easy to bend. That HT was stiff as could be and worked me to death and they didn't really pull down tight against the post either.

Speaking of tee post clips...I've posed a query up in the fencing section maybe some of you can answer for me.
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/yalls-turn-to-help-me-with-a-fence-question.37628/


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## Bruce

I'm surprised you are having so much trouble with the TSC fence clips @Latestarter. Generally speaking, once I had worked with them some, I found they work pretty well. On field fence, cattle panels are a WHOLE different story. What kind of bender are you using? I have the one @greybeard doesn't like (IIRC)


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## Mike CHS

I have gotten a few bags where you can tell there was some QA issues with the manufacturers process.  Sometime the ends had a bad cut (burr on the end) and I've had them where one of the legs needed to be bent out a bit but that is fairly fast.  I think I have a barrel full of them so just toss the bad ones.


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## Latestarter

My bender is a ~5" long "rod" with the last ~2" flattened out and three different sized holes drilled through to work with different gauge wire. You slip the end of the wire in the appropriate hole then twirl the tool around the horizontal wire of the fence to bend/wrap the clip. The clip wire slips through the hole as you go, until the end of the clip comes out of the hole. Works like a champ on the fence ends around the wood posts.


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## Bruce

I think the thing that makes the one I have work well for the clips is you can stick the rounded end in the bigger loop (after hooking the shorter loop over the wire on the other side of the post) and pushing the big loop past the wire on the other side. It gives a lot of leverage to get the twist started and you don't have to feed the wire through a hole. Because it articulates, you can get 1 full twist on before moving the tool. At that point you have to stick the wire in the hole and go one twist at a time or do some fancy swiveling. Most likely the one you have would be easier to finish the twisting since it can just go round and round. And of course the one I have isn't so good on clips close to the ground.


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## Mike CHS

I prefer the one Bruce has for T-post clips but prefer the one @Latestarter has for the post wire wraps.


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## Bruce

I SUPPOSE a fencer COULD have 2 types


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## greybeard

I can go just as fast and easy with a pair of these with shortened handles.
https://www.amazon.com/Tools-VISE-GRIP-Pliers-Cutting-2078904/dp/B000JNNVP4

There is no need to twist the teepost clip ends more than one turn around the wire anyway. 
Just be careful. My wife was 'helping'  me one evening on a long run of HT Gaucho wire and she tightened one of the tee post clips so tight it broke the fence wire.


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## Latestarter

greybeard said:


> she tightened one of the tee post clips so tight it broke the fence wire.



No problem with the gripple... just gripple (splice) in a new piece to cover the break...


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## Latestarter

I just checked Bruce and they supposedly have the type you have (that GB doesn't like) at TSC, in stock. I'll take a run over there tomorrow and pick one up. Just watched a youtube of it being used and it makes it look quite simple and fast. I also have one of those thumb press types that I got from Fred when I visited him. I tried that and it may work great on welded wire but doesn't work at all on the braided wire.

The weather is supposed to go all to hell again starting Sunday. Right now the wind is blowing pretty good. I have the whole house opened up & it says it's 69° right now. So I think tomorrow I'm going to do my best to get that rotted post replaced before I have to deal with a flooded hole again. I checked it yesterday and it still had some water in the bottom.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> No problem with the gripple... just gripple (splice) in a new piece to cover the break...


Except back then, I'd never heard of gripples and not even sure they were available in the USA.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> The weather is supposed to go all to hell again starting Sunday. Right now the wind is blowing pretty good. I have the whole house opened up & it says it's 69° right now. So I think tomorrow I'm going to do my best to get that rotted post replaced before I have to deal with a flooded hole again. I checked it yesterday and it still had some water in the bottom.


All the way down to 75°! Geez, you better get that fence done quick with temps running to 80°, soon it will be to hot to get much done. My holes with water in them NEVER emptied. I finally gave up thinking I was going to put a gate there and filled them in. There was ledge only 1.5' down anyway, even concrete wouldn't hold a post there. I hope you have better luck.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya may have to get after it with a pick axe if it is so rotten, it might do better than a shovel....hope ya get it before more water starts coming down. They are saying we have a real gully washer coming on Wed....5"+....only a half to 3/4" Sun into Mon.


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## Bruce

Get those grandsons some bailing buckets!!
I see happy ducks, miserable goats in your near future.


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## Latestarter

OK, so it's only 70°f outside, but the humidity is above 80% and climbing. Not sure the wet is going to hold out till tomorrow. Pretty gray out there. I seasoned up a full rack of ribs and they're out on the grill with the flames turned down real low. I imagine you can smell them from 1/2 a mile away as we have a pretty good breeze blowing. Also went and got some udder pics to share. Dot is finally showing leakage so I'm guessing within 24-48 hours if she's like last time. Bang's udder is so full and tight that she's funny to watch walking. It's lopsided as well and fuller on one side than the other. It might be due to leakage when she's laying down as I did find a "milk spot" on the ground the other day, but didn't see who left it. Her teats have also expanded and are no longer pencil thin.

Here's my girl Dot... She can't hold them hostage much longer





Here's Bang her son CM decided he just had to see what was going on. He's a near perfect photo bomber. You can see her right udder isn't as swollen as the left. She can't be far off either, but no leakage yet.




Here's April and as fat as she is, she's still able to move and prevent me from getting a full on rear shot. She's not as close as the first two.




Then we have my pretty girl CB. She's got a nice little pumpkin bag going. Not sure if she'll go before or after April.



And here's a pic of the dad RJ. His wether buddy, the photo bomber CM is there with him.


----------



## Bruce




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## Latestarter

4 new kids on the ground... 2 each. Dot has given me two boys so far and Bang has given me 2 girls. Bang is done (I'm pretty sure), Dot I think has another bun still in the oven. giving her a chance to rest a bit right now as I had to assist with #2. Tried to come out 1 leg at a time while sniffing it's own butt.  Got the hand past the restrictor, but man was it tight in there!
Dot's first



Dot's 2nd (& I helped )



Bang's first it's a girl!



Bang's 2nd, ANOTHER GIRL!


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## Wehner Homestead

Looks like lots of goat kids soon! 

I’m thinking I overlooked something...didn’t you have another Doeling born last year...CC maybe??


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## Wehner Homestead

You were posting at the same time I was! Congrats!!!


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## Latestarter

Yes, CC is from last year. So is CB but she's several months older and I believe carrying a single.


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## Latestarter

I was uploading the 3rd pic and accidentally hit post, so had to edit to add the other 2 pics.


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## Latestarter

Well, I'm sure glad they kidded when they did... hope the rest can hold off a week. I have to go get more pine chips for their shelter and clean out the afterbirth and stuff. Humidity dropped back to 60% but that's only because the temp went up above 80 and the sun came out. Nice day for kid deliveries.


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## Bruce

Congrats on the new babies Joe!!


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## Mike CHS

That has to be a major threshold you just crossed.


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## frustratedearthmother

Good job helping Dot!  Congrats!   Don't forget to iodine those cords.


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## CntryBoy777

Well that sure worked out for the best Joe!!....Congratulations on the kids and they are absolutely adorable!!.....glad ya was able to assist the little one and get it out okay. It sure sounds like goat Math to me....unless ya are planning on selling some....


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## Alaskan

So no third kid?  Does and kids still good?


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## Latestarter

So I have a bit of a "situation" here... When I first got down there Dot was laying in a corner of the shelter with a 2 newborn kids at her backside and Bang standing over the top of her nosing the babies... At first I thought they were both Dots so led Bang away. Then I noticed that Bang had delivered as well, so one had to be hers. I saw the newest delivery was for sure Dots and was grayish while the other was black so removed the black one to give it to Bang. Shortly thereafter Bang delivered her 2nd and it too was blackish so I know I guessed correctly as to which ones belong with which. Dot's 2nd that I helped deliver was also grayish.

So both moms are cleaning each others kids, and both sets seem to prefer nursing off Bang, and she seems to be letting them. Dot's kids seem to be having issues finding and latching on to Dot's sausage teats (deja vue). Bang was so full that she was leaking from 1 side so I milked her 1/2 out and froze some and put some in a bottle to offer the kids. I then milked Dot 1/2 out, again to freeze some and to bottle it and attempted to feed her kids her milk. None would take the bottle... (damn baby goats ). Pretty sure I saw some of the kids latch onto Bang. So it appears I'm going to have another "interesting" start to kidding again this year. Not sure I really want a bunch of bottle babies. I still have at least 2 more does to go and possibly 3. This all started around 3pm and I spent till almost 9 pm out there with them. I kept giving the kids back to their proper moms but I don't know that it's working. Guess time will tell. Maybe Bang is going to steal all 4 of them. I guess as long as they're all getting enough to eat, no biggie for me... I'll be able to milk Dot for me.

Both does stood nicely for me to milk them. Bang still has tiny teats and is slow to milk. Dot has huge teats and when stretched taught full, it's hard to get a grip high enough to get a good pull, but once she's down a bit, she's a joy. I had forgotten how thick and sticky colostrum is.

I got 2 bags of pine chips and dug out 6 wheel barrows full of soggy matted mess (the top was dry) from inside the shelter and put down fresh new shavings. The goats seem to appreciate it. Soon as I was done, they promptly pissed in it... 

I bought that fence clip tool Bruce, We'll see when I'll be able to give that a try. All depends on weather.

ETA, no 3rd kid from Dot. Iodine was liberally applied to all 4 cords.


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## Alaskan

Sounds good.

A good high production  doe can handle 4 kids... but she will need good feed.

It might be easier ... to have Bang take them all, IF you think she will produce enough.

Otherwise. .. any way you could segregate the two moms?  So Dot is stuck with her 2 kids?   And they can't go to Bang?  Of course.... if Dot has teats too big for newborns to nurse on... you might have to help the kids latch on for the first few days until they grow a bit.  A bunch of work for a few days... but it would mean no bottle babies.

I dunno   .... depends on where you wanna chunk your time.


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## Bruce

Or (knowing how much *I* know about goats), could you partially milk out Dot so maybe her teats aren't too big for the kids??


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## Baymule

Congrats on the 2 sets of twins! You are a good Goatie Grandpa!

I clip tpost clips with pliers. Works for me.


----------



## Mini Horses

Congrats on the new kids!!   I'm with you, no matter who "claims" & feeds them, it's ok.  Milk the other & use it.

I have a mother/daughter pair due 3/30 -- yep, same day, normal -- & both have always had trips.  I try to keep them apart for a few hrs to get the kids on right gal, 6 is just too many for one.   AND they both give me bucklings  (14 of 15 born in past).  Poor little doeling born last year almost lost her tail from so many checks by me.  

SUPER congrats on the fence progress.  Wish we were close as I do have a backhoe you could use.   They are very, very nice for many things.  Glad I invested.


NEXT -- you guys are a mess with knee & back problems!   Yeah, my back gets sore after a long, hard day but, stretching and an Aleve generally knock it all out.   Mine is sore muscle tho. The bones & cartilage is good.  I'm happily lucky.


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## Latestarter

Bruce, teat size and udder size are two different things. Both Dot and Bang have very large udders but while Bang has pencil teats, Dot has sausage teats. 

So it's been an interesting morning already... Woke up to lots of goat crying (all house windows are open). Put two bottles (1 from each mom) from the fridge into a bowl of hot water to warm them up and headed down to check babies and feed. So first things first, the head count... but there are only 3 babies  So I'm looking under laying down goats and under piles of wood chips, out around the shelter and pen... not there  Widen the search area and he's laying in a hole outside the pen fence sleeping  Guess I've already got a wanderer on my hands. The other 3 are all in a pile in a back corner of the shelter. Just glad the dingbat didn't lay down in a fire ant nest. So I carried all 4 up and tried to get some more of their mom's colostrum in them. 2 drank well, the other 2 didn't. After bringing the last one back down, he promptly latched onto Bang and fed. Of course this was one of Dot's boys   Bang seems to be tending to all of them. 

Bang was very lopsided so I milked out the filled to bursting side by about 1/2. Dot didn't seem to have been emptied at all so I milked out both sides by 1/2. Needless to say, I have multiple ziplocks with colostrum in the freezer now. I think I had a little over 3/4 of a gallon. Started out the day with clean jeans and a clean T-shirt. That turned out to be a waste of clean clothing... neither are clean anymore.


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## Mike CHS

My clean clothes in the morning stay clean till I go out to give the sheep their alfalfa.  They are all at the gate before I get there and I have to push my way through wet sheep bodies to get to the feeding troughs.  40 wet crowding sheep can leave an awful lot of hair and dirt on a person.


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## animalmom

Congrats on the new kids... although Dingbat is not particularly a nice name.  I suppose you could just call him Ding.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> That turned out to be a waste of clean clothing... neither are clean anymore.


Must be why "real" farmers have their overalls, get them dirty doing chores, take them off, put them back on the next day?? I suppose I should wash my insulated Carhartt coveralls this spring. Never got around to it last year.


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## Latestarter

And another set of twins on the ground: buckling and doeling. CB did me proud! Had no idea she was carrying two, but sure enough  The boy is all white, the girl is all black. I guess CB doesn't believe in mixed colors... I'll check em over closer after they get a bit more stable. No apparent face stripes on these two. I've watched both try to latch on. Mom's a little unsure about all that and seems more interested in cleaning them at the moment. I need to get back out there with the iodine.





Was getting chilly here and the wind is picking up so I moved all three into the shelter. Dot's in the back corner with the other 4.


 

That makes 6 kids even split 3 bucklings, 3 doelings.


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## Mike CHS

Congratulations!!


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## Wehner Homestead

Awesome!! Very cute babies!


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## Baymule

Two more! 3/3 is great! Now you need a pig to help drink all that milk. LOL The little black doeling is so cute!


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## Latestarter

Just back in from forced bottle top offs for the "thin looking" babies. Not a one of them has the slightest interest in taking a bottle. None have any interest in Bang's right teat either... She's engorged on one side and damned near empty on the other. I keep pulling the kids off the empty side to try and get them over to the full side. But, they are goats... right up there with mules for stubborn. In addition to regular goat chores, I milked Dot almost all the way out and got 3 quarts. I'm certain I could have had a gallon had I completely drained her. Gonna be 2-a-days for her from here on out. It doesn't seem that she's nursing any kids.  &  Bangs littlest is not getting enough I don't think... Gonna have to keep a real close eye on her. Dot's boys have no issues at all pulling up under Bang's milk bar. Both of CB's kids have nursed off her I believe. She's being a really good mother.

In other news, my fat goat April, who I believed would go next, seems to be nesting and constantly grunting and groaning. I don't expect her to wait too much longer either. I won't be surprised, to be surprised with April kids tomorrow morning. How exciting that they're all getting this over with back to back.  She's gotta be carrying twins at least.


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## Wehner Homestead

I was hoping Snowflake would get it over with during this “kidding storm” but NO she had to pull the doe code card! Lol

Anyway, are you waiting to see what you get before you decide who to keep or do you have an idea in mind already?


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## Mike CHS

It kind of looks like individual stalls might be the way to go with these gals?


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## Latestarter

All girls will be kept, at least through 1 kidding cycle. The boys, I'll advertise as for sale as pure bred, high dairy quality, backyard, unregistered, breeding bucks about the time they're due for weaning. Or, for sale as wethers for those who need a companion animal, or for meat. I'm really interested in what April will give me because she's 1/2 meat goat. If she gives me a buck, I'll most likely raise it for my freezer. Especially if it has a meat goat frame/build. Still have to figure out breeding buck for next fall. I can use RJ again on the existing does. I can, but prob don't want to breed him to his daughters. Prob want some new lineage added to the mix. we'll see. If I get a new PB buck, I may just let RJ cool his jets next fall and use the new guy for all of them. That way in year 3, I'll have a good selection of does for each to take care of.

Sorry you're still waiting on Snowflake... Thankfully my girls seem to be straight shooters.

Separate stalls would be wonderful! Anyone got say 20 grand laying around so I can build a legit barn? You know, with at least a few individual stalls? It's in the plans... just not right this second.

Just got in from checking on them all. All kids are in the shelter. CB is in there with her 2, the other 4 are on their own. Bang did come visit them while I was there and a couple took drinks. Maybe I'm over thinking this or worrying needlessly, I just can't live in the pen with them to watch and see to make sure everyone has nursed soon after birth.  Seems like they're pretty tired and just rest for the first hour or 2 after popping out.

April hasn't popped yet, but she's laying down in one spot and hasn't moved much all day from that spot. And, she stays right there and lets me pat her, on the head and neck even, which is NOT something she normally does.

Dot follows me around talking to me and trying to "clean " my face and hair any time I bend down for any reason. Since I milk her, I think she thinks I'm her kid... It's kinda special when she turns to lick me and talk to me while I'm milking her. She's a sweet goat.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Two more! 3/3 is great! Now you need a pig to help drink all that milk. LOL The little black doeling is so cute!


I think he needs @Devonviolet to teach him how to make butter and cheese.


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## Mini Horses

Soft cheeses are the easy part.   Hard cheese & butter require some additional equipment if you want to be able to make those frequently & easily.

I'm pretty sure Mel would love some cheese.      Sure uses up the milk for you.  Of course, pigs love the milk also.  There are options.   Somehow, I don't think LS wants to milk ALL those does.  It's actually a real job & commitment.  Not 5 minutes to do either.

For me it is like this -- if I ONLY want to let them kid & raise babies, meat goats is way to go.  Otherwise, dairy is to be used to milk and have fresh milk, cream, cheese -- delish.  There are sales for does to those wanting to milk them, at some point....especially if in milk & trained!  Bucks pretty much go to meat, occasionally a breeder or wethered pet.


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## Latestarter

I absolutely do _NOT_ want to milk all those does!  I also do _NOT_ want to bottle raise all those kids! I go down multiple times a day and hold all the kids so they'll be more friendly (I hope). I'm quite content just milking one, Dot, for my own use. She's what, 2 days into lactation as a second freshening and I milked her out this morning for almost 3 quarts. I got that last night as well, so that puts her right now at a gallon and 1/2 a day    By this weekend, I should be through the colostrum and be at drinkable milk, and still more than I can possibly use by myself.   Mel loves the milk as well. He's also a big fan of most anything dairy, so cheese is always a great treat for him.

After the past couple of days, I think I've earned a nice lunch, so I'm going to go eat a wood fired pepperoni pizza up town, then do some supply shopping. I need to get a few 1/2 gallon mason jars and a new "washing bowl" to put my udder wash in. The one I was using was plastic and I dropped it over and outside the pen fence today after milking and it cracked in 1/2.   Cheap plastic... you'd expect something that takes a millennium to decompose in a landfill to last more than a couple of decades in use... Yeah, it was pretty old.  Now it can have the rest of the/a millennium in the landfill...


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## farmerjan

Talk about all or nothing.  I sure don't want 3 of my dairy cows calving within 2 days of each other....Kinda like which kids are going on which does, I can just see me trying to get 3 calves each established on 3 different cows when they are all trying to eat grain and make sure "their own baby" is right there.  Yep, recipe for disaster.  Guess there are some definite advantages on having something that weighs 100 lbs +/- than 1000 lbs +/-....

Good for you to wanting to do it  all at once.  Or maybe that wasn't exactly the plan?  
I have just had my oldest nurse cow calve and have gotten 2 more on her so she will raise 3 right now.  The next one isn't due for about a month.  Still have to preg check one that might be due around the same time.  She just hasn't been where it was convenient for preg check when the vet was at the other barn.  Will check her myself, as if she is bred to her AI breeding she will have a big calf in her due early May also.  If not bred to that then it will be about a 4 month fetus and I won't have to worry about calving her until fall.  Then I have another due in late June/early july.  She was bred twice AI then turned with the cleanup bull so I will have to wait until she calves to be sure.  It will either be a dairy breed calf (she was bred guernsey)  or a half beef from the angus cleanup bull. 

But spacing them out a bit makes it easier to get calves established before the next one needs to be in the barn too.  I do have 3 separate "pens" that they can be separated into, but once the calves get established, they will go find "their own mothers" when the cows come in for their grain.  And of course, I can milk anyone that doesn't have a calf, or enough calves to keep them milked out.


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## Latestarter

I didn't really expect Dot and Bang to go the same day. Dot got bred the day/evening RJ arrived. He went after her as soon as he was released into the pen. I never saw him chase Bang or CB, so didn't know when he had gotten them. But based on the kidding, all three must have happened within the first 48 hours of him being here. I remember him chasing April, but that was maybe a week later. I did expect him to get each as they came into heat so figured a max window of about 18-24 days for all kidding to be complete. I guess goat girls "synch" up their estrus cycles kinda like human females...  It's no biggie and they are all getting along. No major issues yet. Hopefully there won't be any.


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## greybeard

Just tell 'em Joe. Don't start no crap there won't be no crap.....I'm sure they'll listen..


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## Bruce

Sounds like RJ and a very happy first 48 hours at his new home


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## farmerjan

Latestarter said:


> I didn't really expect Dot and Bang to go the same day. Dot got bred the day/evening RJ arrived. He went after her as soon as he was released into the pen. I never saw him chase Bang or CB, so didn't know when he had gotten them. But based on the kidding, all three must have happened within the first 48 hours of him being here. I remember him chasing April, but that was maybe a week later. I did expect him to get each as they came into heat so figured a max window of about 18-24 days for all kidding to be complete. I guess goat girls "synch" up their estrus cycles kinda like human females...  It's no biggie and they are all getting along. No major issues yet. Hopefully there won't be any.


RJ was just waiting for you to go in the house so he could do all his "dirty work" after dark!!!!!  Made sure you knew he was on the job with Dot, then waited to take advantage of the night time.   Gotta watch them sneaky ones!!!


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## Devonviolet

Congratulations on all your little darlin's!  I haven't been on BYH lately, due to being busy and low data.   I have 1 GB to get me through 5+ days & I have some work needs doin' online. I guess it will have to wait . . .

So nice to see all your little ones doing well. Interesting about Bang nursing Dot's kids.  

Ruby & Falina are both getting big. They both look like they are carrying twins. Time will tell.

Since I'm almost out of data I won't be online much in the next week, except to get updates. I'm looking forward to seeing what April & CC give you.


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## Latestarter

Well, it seems you won't have to wait too much longer DV... April is in labor. She's already left a puddle from drippage, has dirt and ground crap stuck all over the back of her udder, and is dilating. She's announcing her progress to the world at large. Ligs are gone, sides are sunken in and dropped. So I've heard tell that goats as a species have been giving birth for a couple of decades or more... Trying to decide should I let nature take its course and go to bed, or stay up all night and "baby sit" her... Thinking I'll give it a couple more hours then hit the sack. I know... that makes me a bad goat daddy  I've already had my assist for this kidding season, right? Isn't that how it works?

Jan, I never noticed RJ having a little afternoon delight  , so must have been after dark.  No matter... long as he got the job done and it's apparent that he did. 

Had to run out to do some shopping and picked up another bag of white chocolate Kit Kats   Still found no yellow sugar coated marshmallow chicks, and no candy coated malted milk balls (the good ones-Robin's Eggs). They have an entire isle dedicated to candy on one side and Easter specific candy on the other side, plus end caps and displays... The two missing items used to be staples of Easter...   What the hell is this nation becoming? 

With the rain coming I decided to buy a couple more bags of pine shavings. We're under a flash flood watch for low lying areas commencing tomorrow at 1 pm lasting till 7pm Thursday. Could get anywhere from 2" to 6" of rain... All depends on where the storm cells pass over. Just looked at the radar and there's one heck of a good line well to the west of DFW... Right over Abilene at the moment. All flowing to the northeast as the line moves very slowly east. Don't expect it will get here till some time tomorrow (which looking at the time is actually later today). 

So, I just finished dumping one of the bags of shavings inside the shelter when I did my midnight kid checks and April visit. All the kids were piled up in a back corner. Don't know how they can handle that personally... It's still over 70° and humid. They throw off a lot of heat. Anyway, they all (adults) had to follow me in to see what food items I was throwing on the ground, and what is that inside that big bag? So I had to chase all the adults out so I could get it done. They are such helpful animals... in a PITA kinda way  RJ has to shadow me with his face in my side pocket. Wherever I go, he's right there. Then Dot, bless her motherly heart, is on my other side making sure that I'm OK. CM is like a 2 year old... if he can get it in his mouth, then by golly he's gonna get a taste! Nothing is safe if it's within his reach.

I also spent a little spare change on 2 movies & spent the last couple of hours watching them. I knew they weren't going to be Oscar winners or anything, but I'll warn you right now... don't even consider wasting your money on them. They weren't even solid "B" material. Knights of the Damned and The Last Starship.   Shoulda spent the money on lottery tickets. It would have been a better investment of time as well as money. Strange... just had a thought that I should go out on the back porch and watch the goats while I have a cigarette...  Happens once in a blue moon these thoughts. Stopped smoking fall of 2010. Can't believe I smoked for over 40 years... dumb!


----------



## Latestarter

And sure enough, just got back inside having 3 more kids... 2 doelings, 1 buckling from April!  Love the coloring on one of the girls  All three were up, basically cleaned and dried, and all have latched and nursed, all within an hour of birth! NONE of the others have been this thrifty  I apologize for pic quality as it is like 2:30 in the morning and dark outside. April was also kind enough to drop them out in the pen rather than inside the shelter. Saves me losing all that fresh bedding I just put down.  So I'm now at 5 doelings and 4 bucklings I love this having babies stuff! 

The blonde and belted kids are female, the solid black (he does have a couple of white patches) is the buckling. All three are about the same size and weight. April did GOOOOOD! And she sure is a heckuvalot skinnier than she was a few hours ago... lighter in weight too!  She's also an excellent mother for a FF. I can't be sure but think the belted came first followed by the blond then the black boy was last. I cleaned his face and nose when I got out there. The other two were in stages of cleaned. I took these pics right before getting them screaming when I upended them to iodine their cords. I'll try to post better pictures tomorrow.







 

Now the difficulty starts... trying to figure out names.


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## Wehner Homestead

Congrats! The belted one is quite cute! Can’t wait to see pics of them from daylight.


----------



## Mini Horses

How wonderful!  I love it when things go right.  Of course, so do the does. 

Are there more due or is this the last one to kid?   

I'm on the "watch the tails" vigil right now.  2 due in 3 days...that's day 150.


----------



## Devonviolet

Congratulations on April's triplets! They are just darling!!!  

So, is CC in line next? Or did she not get bred?


----------



## greybeard

Last Starship...'As war is raging in a post-apocalyptic world, the survivors are hunted by a giant monster and attacked by an army of zombies and ancient machines of war."

Oh goodie. zombies. my favorites. 
(it does sound kinda like some internet conversations I've read tho)


----------



## Latestarter

OK... so CC... I thought I had been successful in keeping her virginity intact, removing her when she was in heat. I know, not the best plan, better to remover her for the entire heat season (or remove the bucks). It appeared that I had succeeded, however, I now have doubts. She is starting to widen out and in the past couple of days, she seems to be developing a tiny udder. So, we'll wait and see. In the wild, goats get bred when they come into heat. cut & dried. no age/weight/size restrictions.  CB surprised me with twins when I was certain she was only big enough for a single. 

I don't know GB... IMHO there are quite a few "zombies" wandering around   I'm kind of a fan of zombie movies and futuristic space movies. I was raised on the original Star Trek, and it all seemed within reach... almost plausible. I mean we went from horse draw carriages to walking on the moon in under 100 years. We now have the ability to obliterate the entire world in under a minute or the knowledge & wherewithal to save it and make it better for future generations. In the case of these two movies, I exercised very poor judgement. They sucked.   Can't return them either. Once opened, they're yours to do with...


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## greybeard

double tap.
or:


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## CntryBoy777

Congratulations LS!!.........glad things are going so well for ya....they sure are some Cuties!!....it does seem that ya have taken some big steps in filling the freezer and increasong the herd too....


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## Latestarter

Well, the line has moved far enough east to be over Dallas now. Slow as it's moving, I don't think it will get to me till late this afternoon. But with the training it's gonna add up to a lot of rain water. Hope they don't embed tornadoes... It's already mid 70's and humidity is way up there. Pretty breezy too. Looks like @goatgurl is gonna get some water for her pond.   Her ducks will be happy!


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## animalmom

CDs make interesting wind mobiles --  very flashy.

Congrats on all the delightful kids.  Your girls have given you great bragging rights.  Of course you know you owe us many more pictures.  Many            More            Pictures.  Please and thank you.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Depending on the track thru here we are in line to get 3-5" starting later tonite and thru the day tomorrow....the prediction is for it to train right thru our area....guess we'll be in for a real Ducky day tomorrow....hope all your little ones stay dry and there are any problems for ya to deal with during the downpours....


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## greybeard

animalmom said:


> CDs make interesting wind mobiles --  very flashy.
> 
> Congrats on all the delightful kids.  Your girls have given you great bragging rights.  Of course you know you owe us many more pictures.  Many            More            Pictures.  Please and thank you.


Also help in keeping birds out for gardens...for a while any way. A good use for all those AOL cd's that used to come in the mail and any new computer a few years back. Pretty good targets too.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Well, the line has moved far enough east to be over Dallas now. Slow as it's moving, I don't think it will get to me till late this afternoon. But with the training it's gonna add up to a lot of rain water. Hope they don't embed tornadoes... It's already mid 70's and humidity is way up there. Pretty breezy too. Looks like @goatgurl is gonna get some water for her pond.   Her ducks will be happy!
> View attachment 45840


I am hoping it stays well north of me. I have a pretty big ditching type project I need to do, as soon as I get the 24"pipe cut and welded like it needs to be.


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## Baymule

Bring on the rain! I bought cream today, have LOTS of eggs. Going to bake Angel food cake and make Crème Brulee tomorrow. Each Angel food cake takes 12 egg whites. I take the egg yolks and make Crème Brulee. Since we can't eat that many Crème Brulee (I make them in ramekins) I freeze them. 

Easy name for the belted kid--Oreo. 
Brown kid-Chocolate Kiss
Black kid-Kuro(KOO-ROH) which is the Japanese _word_ for Charcoal


----------



## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> Had to run out to do some shopping and picked up another bag of white chocolate Kit Kats   Still found no yellow sugar coated marshmallow chicks, and no candy coated malted milk balls (the good ones-Robin's Eggs). They have an entire isle dedicated to candy on one side and Easter specific candy on the other side, plus end caps and displays... The two missing items used to be staples of Easter...   What the hell is this nation becoming?


We went to Walmart today and DH stocked up on Easter candy for the grands........yeah, right. We got Peeps in not only yellow, but pink, green, purple and Tropical Fruit Punch...AND we got 2 bags of Robin's Eggs! You should go shopping with DH!


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## Alaskan

another too many egg choice:  chocolate souffle.   You can make a bunch in ramekins and put them in the fridge for several days... cook as needed.


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## Latestarter

Here's a group shot of the kids wandering about earlier today. Bang is watching Dot's kids, that she's taken over, wondering where they're headed.


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## Wehner Homestead

I’m glad you drew the arrows or I’d have never connected them all or found the one hiding by RJ. 

That’s a lot of kids to name. You need a theme (last year was C foods). One of the movie series that you like could contribute, State names since you’d like to visit several, R names since daddy is RJ and switch it up when you switch bucks, the boys could be cuts of meat since none will be staying and flower names for the girls...just a few ideas. I like names, I can always come up with more. I may or may not have a few theme lists in my phone...


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## farmerjan

Do goats have a heat soon after they kid,  like horses have a "foal heat"?  Cows also can come in heat within 3 weeks of calving although not as common.  But we have had cows breed back within 30 days of calving if they are in good shape and their nutritional level is up. 
I would be concerned about the buck being in with them, but I do not have goats.  We have to keep the rams out because sometimes the ewes come back in heat quickly.  Plus we have to get the ram lambs out before 3-4 months because there are always a couple that get active.  Then there are bred back ewes we weren't planning on.

The kids are cute.  I always liked them on the friends farm that I have "farm sat for".  But by the time they are a couple of weeks and climbing on everything, I've had enough.  At least the calves don't climb on top of everything....


----------



## CntryBoy777

They are sure pushing the boundries on ya there....I know you and them will be glad to get started on some of that green on the other side of that fence. Looks like a really nice herd LS and ya have come a long way from just talk in Colorado....


----------



## greybeard

I don't remember ever naming a single calf or cow, tho I did give the horses names. #s are good enough. One of my neighbors names all of his 'keepers' but not a one of them ever acted one bit like they knew their own name and I'm pretty sure they didn't.


----------



## greybeard

When you get caught up Joe, you can come help dig a little ditch. I finished welding up a little drainage pipe for one of the canals leading into my pond today. Cutting that 45° angle then flipping it and welding it back on to form the upset turned into a bigger chore than I thought it was gonna be.



 
Digging the trench and getting it set in place is going to be an adventure in itself.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

We have had quite a few cows over the years that knew their names. We’ve also had several goats that have known their names and even a couple pigs. 

I will admit that we do number tags in the cows too. We have several that would be difficult to tell apart. Our theory is that if someone needs to tell us something that they can’t identify them by name. The numbers are stored in an app that’s shared between our phones for easy reference.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Digging the trench and getting it set in place is going to be an adventure in itself.


I think you need a backhoe more than a Joe!! That's going to be a BIG trench.



Alaskan said:


> another too many egg choice:  chocolate souffle.   You can make a bunch in ramekins and put them in the fridge for several days... cook as needed.


Or, perhaps Mama Wall's eggnog



Latestarter said:


> Bang is watching Dot's kids, that she's taken over, wondering where they're headed.


Maybe to see Mom?


----------



## Baymule

How much rain did you get Joe? It's still dark outside and I haven't rolled out to go see the rain gauge. It stormed and rained like crazy last night. Several times thunder shook the house.


----------



## Mini Horses

The overall weather map shows a LOT of big storms in TX...they linger & move around a little.  Very slowly, too.   I expect the you all will get a good amount of rain.  Don't want to wish you ill but, it's them coming MY way and I'd like to share all I can before it gets here.   I do not need 6-8" right now.  

LS that pasture looks so, so nice.     Have you considered letting them out late day for a while, then taking their grain to the pen at dusk?   Mine will do that for me and run back for their dinner.  Almost like chickens..  Sometimes I open a gate and call them, then go to where I want them and the generally go "about" there, graze and never go far from their pen.  They will really snatch up a belly full in quick order.  Saves some hay....although it is there to keep them gut stable.  Of course, with a lot of rain the grass can be carrying more moisture than they are used to, hay will help to balance that -- or we know the poo results.

FarmerJan...yes, they can sometimes have heat but, many goats are seasonal cyclers.  Some are year round tho, esp the Nigi & Pygmy types.  Bigger factor is that the doe kids will begin to cycle at a young age, regardless of seasonal and we all know how "boys will be boys" .   Then you have too young bred does.    Even the seasonal does have been known to cycle at unexpected times, especially a month or two before the "norm" for seasonal.   An aggressive buck is sometimes the cause.   Thus, separate pens and/or early castrations.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I think you need a backhoe more than a Joe!! That's going to be a BIG trench.


Got one, far left side of the photo. I roughly figure 45-50" deep x 42" wide X 16' long, but the depth isn't for sure yet till I do some better measuring. I'll have to be careful not to cut the ends out of the trench till I get the depth correct, as the trench will fill with 2' of water as soon as I dig the ends.


----------



## Latestarter

If you're serious GB, I'll be more than happy to come down and help. You'll have to operate the backhoe as I've never done so, but I'll help any way I can. Just let me know.

All the kids are now getting to the "bouncy" stage. Just the beginnings and the youngest are still a little unstable and run out of energy pretty quick. But they are all up and wandering (as the previous photo showed) and most have decided they like to crash under the hay feeder. You should see the adults who don't have kids (CC & the boys) jumping with fright any time a kid touches them or gets too near.  Really funny when they run away and the kid chases them. Good exercise for both!

Didn't read the rain gauge but know we got over 2 inches. I know you didn't want any GB, but looks like you're getting hit none the less with the trailing end. The main front is past me now and hammering Fred. Hasn't reached Mike yet, but he's gonna get it as well later tonight. Sorry Minihorses  & Jan but is sure does look like you're gonna benefit as well after a bit.

I bought a lottery ticket for the Megamillions on Monday. Went to check it a bit ago only to find the idiot lady gave me a Powerball ticket instead  No matter as nobody won, but still. I won't be complaining if I win tomorrow night's drawing though... go figure.  Just means I'll now have a chance to win 1/2 a billion instead  There would be a lot of happy people if I win.

Lamanchas are seasonal and I haven't seen either of the adult boys acting out. I don't expect it but will watch for it. I will have to get things in order here straight away though as you're right, the babies of both sexes can become active at 12 weeks.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> You'll have to operate the backhoe as I've never done so, but I'll help any way I can.


Good way to learn for when you get your own.



Latestarter said:


> You should see the adults who don't have kids (CC & the boys) jumping with fright any time a kid touches them or gets too near.


Probably afraid the kid's mom would beat the cr@p out of them for "attacking" their baby.


----------



## greybeard

I got 5" yesterday/last night. Won't be no backhoe work for awhile now.  I don't move that heavy sucker out of it's tracks when the ground is soggy.
Sun is shinning now but the river is on it's way to see me, tho I don't expect it to be much this time around. I do expect this hydrograph to change some with an upward trend at around 6pm today tho. You can see how quickly it does rise from 5' normal level @ 10pm last night to 12.5' @ 7:45 this morning. How accurate the dotted line projection/estimate/guess is will depend if there is any more rainfall on the upper watershed, and how accurate USGS rainfall gathering instruments are up that way.
For contrast, 27.17' was the record set last Sept.





*Historic Crests*
(1) 27.17 ft on 08/28/2017
(2) 24.57 ft on 10/18/1994
(3) 24.57 ft on 01/08/1998
(4) 24.10 ft on 11/24/1940
(5) 23.60 ft on 05/05/1935

A different view of the same hydrograph..I keep this page active after heavy rainfalls nowadays.
https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=HGX&gage=CLDT2&hydro_type=2&refresh=true


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## greybeard

The river says .


 

 

Gonna be a long nite.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh my goodness!  ARGH!!!  

Is there a prediction on how high it's gonna get?   

  Hope that river doesn't get too crazy!


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## Wehner Homestead

I can’t like GB’s post. That’s not cool! Prayers for receding water, low crest, and safety for all involved!


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> The river says .


Hopefully it doesn't plan to stay over, just passing through.


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## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> Oh my goodness!  ARGH!!!
> 
> Is there a prediction on how high it's gonna get?
> 
> Hope that river doesn't get too crazy!



Forecast to peak Sat @ 7pm now. At 16' 8" which is about 2 ft higher than it is now.
I suspect it won't crest quite that high and the drop will be significantly faster than what their graph shows.





I'm hoping I'm right anyway, but I was not able to get to the pond to retrieve my alum boat this time. It's styrofoam flotation can be seen sticking up out of the water just past the bench..the boat itself is under water. My little dock is also underwater.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It sure seems to rise pretty quickly on ya there....are ya cattle doing okay with it?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Sure hope you're right too!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Wow! Please stay safe!! I hope the Livestock fare well!


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## greybeard

Just got the last cow loaded and they are on their way over to a friend's place on much higher ground.

My next place is going to look like this (I never shulda left there to begin with)


----------



## Alaskan

greybeard said:


> View attachment 46016 Just got the last cow loaded and they are on their way over to a friend's place on much higher ground.
> 
> My next place is going to look like this (I never shulda left there to begin with)


that right there... that probably doesn't flood.


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## Wehner Homestead

Flood land to drought land. 

I’m glad your cattle are safe. Stay safe yourself (and the Mrs.)


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## greybeard

Alaskan said:


> that right there... that probably doesn't flood.


It is actually Dry Devil's River about 80 miles North of the Rio Grande


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## Alaskan

greybeard said:


> It is actually Dry Devil's River about 80 miles North of the Rio Grande


that explains the lush green growth!


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## Latestarter

Sorry your back pasture is under water once again GB. Doesn't seem like it will reach your shop this time around... Least I hope not. Glad you got the cows moved to higher ground. I ended up with just over 2" of rain.

Was down picking up kids this evening and was surprised to find a set of balls on a kid that I had thought was female... Or maybe my mind is going on me... Either way, Dot had twin boys, Bang had B/G twins, CB had B/G twins and April gave me 2G/1B trips. So it's not 5 girls 4 boys but 5 boys, 4 girls. I was a bit concerned about them all getting fed, but they are all hopping around and taking turns at the various teats... None appear to be lagging in growth (much), though there is one smaller than the rest (one always has to be the smallest after all). But all of them have been suckling. Dots boys are growing fast! They have already become the biggest of them all. I think they'd have real potential as breeding bucks. They have real nice coloring as well and look to be stocky. But we'll see. Dot's been giving me 3.5 quarts at each milking, twice a day. So that's almost 1.75 gallons. Tasted her milk from this morning and it's still just a little "off" flavor wise.

Was milking Dot this evening, clipped to the fence as always, when RJ decided he wanted to head butt the hay feeder. I look over and it's up on 2 legs with him ramming his head into the fencing trying to lift it and push it over. He got it right to the crest of tipping point as I stopped him. Was very close and almost went over. So I jump up and smack him a good one, and re set it back on the concrete blocks. So this encourages CM (the wether) that he should challenge me to play a game of chicken... and while I'm chasing both the idiot boys off, Dot gets concerned and steps right in the 1/2 full bowl of milk, dumping and contaminating what was left. I had just about finished one side so over a quart.    

Don't quite know what to make of my idiot boy goats. The girls give me no issues at all aside from bang's harassment of the others. But these boys seem to always be finding ways to do stupid stuff that pisses me off. The babies like to doze under the feeder and I don't need that dumb ass to tip the feeder over and kill a kid or two.

Bang has a very lopsided udder situation going on. One side is filled to full and the other is like a deflated balloon. Seems the kids all latch the empty one and keep it drawn down. So this evening, I got hold of her and clipped her to the fence and milked that full side out by 1/2. Maybe if the kids don't have to stoop as low they'll drink from that side as well. No heat, no mastitis/blood/pus/issue, just not being used. My 2 FFs are being great moms, CB & April. Bang's doing a really good job with her 4. Dot still sniffs and cleans the same 4 every now and again, I guess this is what happens when 2 goats have their kids at the same time in the same pool of birthing fluids.  Not complaining, but hope they start equal use of both sides of Bangs udder.


----------



## greybeard

The river is outrunning the forecast guidance. Now just .8 of a ft below the forecast crest level.
It's yet to be seen if this is a good thing or a bad thing.
If it's merely going to crest early (sometime before dawn...maybe it already has crested) and stay there a few days=good enough, but if it is going to continue to rise and still not crest until Sat evening, (at an even higher level) well that = bad.


----------



## greybeard

Belay that. Ruh roh!
It updates every 1/2 hour.


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## Wehner Homestead

Uh oh is right! Stay safe! 

LS- I know you are still trying to build fences and paddocks right now but you might want to make sure you have a buck area in your plan (I don’t recall if you do ) so that they can be separated just to keep their antics from annoying the females and placing the kids in danger. Just a thought....


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## Baymule

GB stay safe, hope the river stays out of your shop and house. It sucks, don't blame you one bit for wanting to go back to west Texas. My sister got 7' of water in the hurricane flood and got it back together just in time for Christmas. I swear, she has her favorite contractors on speed dial. No way I'd put up with that.


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## Bruce

Might need to chain that feeder down to the ground Joe. Sorry the boys are causing trouble.


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## Mini Horses

T-post pounded in well on each end, connected to hay feeder.  Boys are always a PITA.


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## Latestarter

So I tried that new clip tool you posted Bruce (and Mike said he liked if for T post clips). Works like a dream! Clipped all but the very bottom one on ~230' of fencing today in virtually no time at all. Tomorrow I'll go down the line doing the bottom clips then hope to get another line laid out and stretched. Hope to get a lot completed over the Easter weekend. I won't be doing anything else. Hope y'all have a very happy Easter.

Kids are bouncing all over the place. The first 2 boys of Dot's are already almost twice the size. Devonviolet and her DH are going to come for a visit on Monday and bring the kid disbudding box and disbudding iron and we're gonna have a burnt skull party!   Figure to throw a few steaks on the grill afterwards to recover from the arduous labor. 

Hope the water doesn't go too much higher GB.


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## Alaskan

I needed a drink afterwards. ..  nasty business  

(not saying it shouldn't be done.. and I do think it is the best method of the various choices ...  still nasty though)


----------



## greybeard

It's going down, after cresting here around 3am but looks like this one is going to be with us awhile. Something has changed in the river and the way it drains, maybe because of all the hurricanes and the many many fallen trees that are in the channel now.
https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=HGX&gage=CLDT2
I know Harris County is floating a plan to clean the lower San Jac river channel out, but that's below Lake Houston after the west and east fork merge..won't help me any.
In years past, the water comes down from the upper watershed, rises within 6-8 hrs, crests, and the within 12-24 hrs, the river is back in it's banks. Not so the last couple of floods.

Brought some of the cattle back today, put my shop back together, got the welders and other portable gas powered stuff unloaded out of the loader bucket, brought the tractor and backhoe back from the hill near the back gate and brought wife's car back and pretty much back to normal except the 30+ extra mile trip to get into town which is normally 7 miles. Road is still closed in front of my place.


----------



## Latestarter

Doesn't really bother me much Al... I trim away a lot of the hair before applying the iron. The burnt hair smells worse to me than the burnt bone/flesh. I have 9 babies to do and some have substantial buds (gonna have to cut the tops off them so the iron can get to the root), while others are barely there yet. The boys, of course, are growing fastest.

So a fricken pack of coyotes just lit off down over the hill in the stream bed area below the goat pen. Mel started barking too. I went out with my .22 and fired 4-5 rounds down in their general direction. 10 minutes later they started sounding off a little, but way across the road. Hope it was those I scared off & not another group. Gotta get the fencing finished and the hot wire up and on.  Then I can put the LGD in with the L.

Glad the water is going down GB. Still gonna take a while for things to dry back out enough for you to start on the drain pipe install.


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## Alaskan

the smell is bad... but I hate the screaming more.  

GB, very glad to hear you aren't getting flooded.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Glad the water is going down GB. Still gonna take a while for things to dry back out enough for you to start on the drain pipe install.


Yeah, but it knows what water is now anyway...on-the-job training.


----------



## Mini Horses

WOW  that water is bad.   It would sure make me think "move".

LS...I trimmed the hair on mine before they were dehorned, also.  Well, next year, no disbudding and I regret it for the does I have with horns!  THIS year, will have disbudding iron and I need a box.   Yeah, you can hold them but box is sooo much better.  Pick up iron Wed.   First kids born this AM before dawn.
BOTH doelings!!  I'm thrilled. Another doe due today.

Like you, I feel the hair is the stinkier part of the process.  Also feel it's faster surer with hair gone.  Oh well, I'm no pro as I have never personally done one.  But watched several and feel just a little bit anxious.   Can't be worse than lancing a boil and cleaning it out -- Right?    Yeah, I'm pretty "hands on".

Hope you get your coyote issues dead -- uhhhh under control.  No doubt the goats will LOVE YOU when the fence is done & they can indulge in that grass.  So will your wallet.  Cuts the hay bill way down.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats on all the new kids!!


----------



## Latestarter

Grats on 2 new doelings Mini! Hope you get at least one more from the next one due. The coyotes were at 11pm and down in the woods, I couldn't see them, but they were close. I just fired in their direction to shut them up and get them moving along. When they hear a gun shot close by, they run like greased lightening. They know all to well what that sound means.  Mel barked a couple more times over night and all my goats were present and accounted for this morning, so I'm happy. 

Disbudding isn't (IMHO) as bad as a lot of folks make it out to be. Yeah, the kids scream bloody murder for the first couple of seconds, then they pretty much just go limp. I think the biggest issues folks have is that they don't hold the iron on long enough to kill the entire bud (they are afraid they're hurting the goat?), and hence end up with scurs. I mean even if you ARE hurting the goat, you've already started, why not go the full time and make sure it's done so you DON'T have to do it again later? I had that happen last year and had to re-burn when the kids were so big I had to force them into the box. They were too big/strong at that point for me to just hold them and do it. Although the second time around they were so big, they couldn't move at all in the box, so that was nice. But the 2nd time, I got them all and none of the kids I did have scurs. Hope I get it right this year  Don't want a second go round this year.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I much prefer our disbudded goats over the Boers that we had with them. We have a few with scurs that have knocked them loose over the last couple days and it’s another pain to deal with.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Hope I get it right this year  Don't want a second go round this year.


Always easier once you've learned from the first time (in this case, first year).


----------



## greybeard

How I feel lately.....


----------



## Alaskan

like a submarine?


----------



## Baymule

Is that the North Koreans spying on you?


----------



## Wehner Homestead

On a more serious note, I will say that GB has a wealth of knowledge and may be considered essential to them!


----------



## farmerjan

After last year, I was so hoping that you would have a "normal" year or even a little on the dry side.  I cannot imagine you going through this all over again.... My sympathies although they aren't worth spit in your circumstances....


----------



## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> After last year, I was so hoping that you would have a "normal" year or even a little on the dry side.  I cannot imagine you going through this all over again.... My sympathies although they aren't worth spit in your circumstances....


Worth more than you know, and certainly much more than my own complaining. 
The reality is, this is just part of owning property and working it in this part of the world. If I go back West, instead of 2 ac/pair, I'll be looking at 10 or 20 ac/pair, and instead of Chinese tallow and pine trees, the invasives are going to be mesquite, prickly pear, juniper, and huisatche.


----------



## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> On a more serious note, I will say that GB has a wealth of knowledge and may be considered essential to them!


Yeah, like how to put up fences to keep their "stock" in. Some manage to escape.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Leave it to @Bruce to make me laugh!


----------



## Bruce




----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Yeah, like how to put up fences to keep their "stock" in. Some manage to escape.


Mine have swam over some of my fences, so not foolproof and I guess fat boy in NK might have the same problem..albeit for different reasons.


----------



## Latestarter

Big thank you to @Devonviolet and her DH. They brought over their disbudding iron and kid box for my use and I got all 9 kids taken care of. Did the disbudding on my back deck. So much faster when you can bring up 3 kids at a time and then swap them out in the box one after another. Saves 2/3rds of the trips back and forth. Also made the kids much more comfortable afterwards as they were held (before and) after being done. The DV contingent was able to get their "kid fix" to hold them over until Falina has hers.

Nothing like the smell of burning hair, flesh, and bone in the afternoon. My stache clippers ran out of battery pwr about 1/2 way through clipping horn hair on the last goat. Dot's boys are some really handsome animals... big, strong, really nice conformation. I'm pretty sure they'd make very good herd sires. RJ comes from strong milk lines and Dot has proven to be an excellent milker. The other three boys are wether or dinner candidates. I might keep one with silver frosted 2 tone hair as a wether and replace the idiot wether I have right now. The more I think about it, the more certain I become that this is the future.

So in payment for their loan of equipment and time, I provided a nice grilled rib eye steak dinner, some dug up plants to take home, and ~3 gallons of fresh goat milk so DV can make some fresh cheese.  I have room on the top shelf of my refer again 

We have come up with a couple of names... The belted doeling is DS; short for double stuffed (oreo). The beautiful colored doeling from April is now Champ, short for champagne. I absolutely adore her color shadings. She is so beautiful. So 2 more doelings (at present) to be named. One is completely black... No white at all that I can recall. The other is black with white face stripes along her muzzle on either side like RJ and Bang have and other white patches on her body. She's really pretty as well. DV got a really nice face pic of her in the disbudding box.

I had been attempting to mow the pasture before they got here and of course everything is so wet that the deck got completely clogged. I had just finished cleaning all the crap out when they got here. After they left I went back to mowing. While cleaning it out I noticed the blades are about worn out (again) so I'll be buying replacement blades and changing them out again. This will be the 4th set of blades (3rd replacement) since the tractor was new last spring.


----------



## Alaskan

Latestarter said:


> This will be the 4th set of blades (3rd replacement) since the tractor was new last spring.



is that standard?  Just what are you cutting?


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> The DV contingent was able to get their "kid fix" to hold them over until Falina has hers.


Oh my, YES!!!  DH and I enjoyed holding those little guys so much!  They were so calm in our laps, which is a testament to the time LS spent cuddling them, when they were first born.



Latestarter said:


> Dot's boys are some really handsome animals... big, strong, really nice conformation.


All of LS's kids are darling and sweet as sugar. But, he is so right! These two boys are absolutely gorgeous!!! They will definitely make a couple of awesome herd sires!!!



Latestarter said:


> DV got a really nice face pic of her in the disbudding box.


Yes, she is a pretty girl!  Here is that pic:





As always, we had a great time at Latestarter's.  DH and I are impressed with all that LS did throughout the births, of all those kids, and how he is managing them now.

His fencing project is going well.  He has H-posts and T–posts in place and one long stretch of 4x4" wove wire fencing stretched, and it all looks professionally done.

Dinner was delish! LS pulled three nice size Ribeye steaks out of the freezer, and we stopped at the Church's Fried chicken place to pick up some coleslaw and beans. It turned out they didn't have beans, so we got Fried Okra.  The coleslaw was good, but note to self . . . Nix the okra next time.  It smelled so good, when we first got it, DH and I sampled it in the truck, on the way to LS's place.  By the time we ate, it had cooled off and while the flavor was good, it was a bit soft and "rubbery".  Don't think we will do that again.

I have a problem with food lodging itself in my esophagus every once in a while. This has been going on for the past 15 years. It can take anywhere from 5 minutes to 18 hours for it to go down.  In the meantime, I can't get water or even my own saliva down. As much as I love LS's medium rare grilled Ribey steak, I am now 2 for 2 on not being able to finish my meal, at his house.  It happened again yesterday. AAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!    I know LS felt really bad!  But, really it wasn't his fault.  He said, from now on he's grilling chicken when we go to his place for dinner!!!  DH suggested it should be in the form of Gerber's Jr. baby food chicken!   

After we got home, I remembered something I tried the last time it happened, and tried it again last night. It worked! Magnesium has a relaxing effect on muscles. I had some, in liquid form (Milk of Magnesia [MOM]). So, I took a swig when I got home. It took a while, for it to work, but in about 20 minutes, I felt the lump, of lodged meat, go down, and I was finally able to swallow some water.    I told DH I'm going to find a small bottle, so I can put some MOM in my purse, for future problems.

LS did such a great job, disbudding his kids, and it didn't bother him the way it bothers me. So, I asked him if he would disbud Falina's kids, and he said he was more than happy to do that. So, when our kids buds start popping up, I will invite him over for dinner (NOT STEAK! ) and he can disbud our kids for us.   I'm thinking Roast Leg of Goat, gravy (to help the meat slide down), Armenian Rice Pilaf (an olde family recipe) and homemade flaky biscuits will be on the menu. 

And as always, we really enjoyed spending time with LS's humongous dog, Mel.  He is such a sweetheart! His big head comes up to my  waist when he stands next to me!  Whenever we first get there, for a visit, he gets up on the fence, so we can love on him. LS said we are the only ones he does that for. So, it seems he loves us as much as we love him!    He just loves it when I poke my fingers through his thick fur, so I can scritch and massage his neck and back!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Sounds like an awesome visit! I think that girl that everyone goes on and on about should be named Beauty!  I think she’s quite stunning!

@Devonviolet the nurse in me couldn’t help but ponder your swelling issues. DH’s Dad has a similar problem with anything “heavy.” He has his esophagus “stretched” by a GI doc when he starts flaring up again. It’s been about two years and he’s due! Just a thought.


----------



## greybeard

Alaskan said:


> is that standard?  Just what are you cutting?


I haven't seen it but I suspect Bahia grass as well as anything else that may be in there, either growing or brought in by water. Bahia is very hard on mower blades. I go thru several sets/year on my lawn tractor and have tried about every kind of blade made. Back in my early 'low stocking rate' days, when I was mowing my pastures, my 5' bush hog behind a 45hp tractor could get bogged down in Bahia a lot easier than when mowing heavy brush. And of course, if he has sandy soil, the sand particles wear blades down very quickly too.

Almost all of Joe's mowing problems will go away with the introduction of some good 4 legged mowing machines. I haven't hooked onto my big mower in nearly 5 years now.


----------



## Bruce

Joe, did you count the kids after DV and DH left? Seems it would be pretty easy to sneak one out in that box. 

Perhaps DV will have some cheese for you to take home after you disbud their kids 



Devonviolet said:


> so we got Fried Okra. The coleslaw was good, but note to self . . . Nix the okra next time.


I've found that fried stuff just does NOT travel well. I'll eat tempura at a restaurant but won't get it for take out. Just yuck when it has cooled and gotten soggy.



Wehner Homestead said:


> @Devonviolet the nurse in me couldn’t help but ponder your swelling issues. DH’s Dad has a similar problem with anything “heavy.” He has his esophagus “stretched” by a GI doc when he starts flaring up again. It’s been about two years and he’s due! Just a thought.


My sister has had than done a few times as well. I'd never even heard of it until about a year ago.



greybeard said:


> Almost all of Joe's mowing problems will go away with the introduction of some good 4 legged mowing machines.


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## Devonviolet

Wehner Homestead said:


> @Devonviolet the nurse in me couldn’t help but ponder your swelling issues. DH’s Dad has a similar problem with anything “heavy.” He has his esophagus “stretched” by a GI doc when he starts flaring up again. It’s been about two years and he’s due! Just a thought.



Actually, being a nurse, myself, I am aware of that.  I wasn't going to make my post go too long by going into the details. But, since you mentioned it, here goes . . .

I have had esophageal issues since I was in my 30's, due to GERD (Gastro Esophageal Reflux Disorder). I took Protonix for acid reflux, for several years, but due to rebound effect, I had to take increasing doses. Which insurance balked at paying and I didn't like the side effects, especially calcium deficiency, which can lead to osteoporosis.

After years of trying to find an alternative, I started taking baking soda in water, to neutralize the acid, only when I start to feel burning. The acid/alkaline reaction causes gas, which I burp up and the burning goes away.

Over the years, I have had about 20 EGDs (Esophageal Gastric Dilitation) procedures.  They scope and stretched my esophagus at the same time. I have had about 3 or 4 MAJOR extreme reflux episodes, which led to severe burns and infection, making it very painful to even eat or drink, so I went a week fasting until it healed.

One of those episodes was 3 days before my wedding.  By my wedding day, I was REALLY sick.  But I was bound and determined to get married.  I had planned a steak dinner, for 20, at a nice local restaurant. But, I was in too much pain to eat.  On my wedding night, I woke up with a temp of 106 F.  So we went to the ER.  But, the ER Doc couldn't do anything for me.  So, I went home on antibiotics. Swallowing the big capsule was a huge challenge.

I had planned a week's honeymoon, and I wouldn't be able to get anymore vacation time off work, so we went anyway.  We had a good time, but after a day of trying to eat, I gave up and watched my husband eat at mealtime. I also slept a lot.  Ourt last dinner there was at an Italian restaurant, and the only thing I ate was authentic Spumoni. And it was the best ice cream I ever ate. It hurt going down but I can still remember how good it tasted!!!

I've had several EGDs since we got married, and they all show really bad scar tissue in my esophagus, which makes it more difficult for food to slide down. However, the real reason, for food getting caught, was discovered about 8 years ago.  I got some pills caught, and they just wouldn't go down.  It lead to what is called an esophageal spasm, which causes the sphincter muscle, at the bottom of the esophagus, to clamp shut, preventing even my saliva from going down.

That day, I went 18 hours without anything to eat or drink. I could tell I was getting dehydrated. This was the second time I had gone that long (the first time it was 16 hours and I ended up going to the ER to have an EGD). So, after 18 hours, I gave in and got my purse, to head for the ER.  But, I decided to try some water one more time - and it went down.  The next day I called a doctor, who treats esophageal problems. He did another EGD, and discovered that the entire lining, of my esophagus was swollen and white.  This indicated that I have a condition called Eosinophilic Esophagitis (EE)

What I learned was that EE is caused when a person eats foods, that they are allergic/sensitive to.  That causes white blood cells (eosinophils) to migrate to the lining of the esophagus, causing it to swell and turn white. Eventually, it can swell to the point, that food cannot pass. In fact, the doctor could not get the camera to pass down the length, of my esophagus. So, I had to schedule a repeat at the hospital, so he could use a tiny pediatric scope.

I have had blood testing, for food sensitivities, and know that in addition for chemical additives, in food, I am sensitive to all night shades (tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, and peppers), peanuts, and casein in milk (among other foods).  I have since learned that I can drink raw milk, but not pasteurized milk. Heating milk, to pasteurize it, destroys the enzymes that allow the body to digest casein, so I react to pasteurized milk.  Raw milk has the enzymes that allows my body to digest the casein proteins, and I don't react to it.

Even though I am careful to not eat foods I am sensitive to, and I eat slowly, so I can chew my food well, I still occasionally have a problem with bulky foods, like hamburger, steak, Hardboiled egg yolks, etc., get caught and I have to wait for them to go down.


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## frustratedearthmother

What a challenge...


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## greybeard

Keep an eye on it. I'm sure you know this already, but I will repeat it any way.
You are at a higher risk of developing esophageal cancer because of EE and GERD.
Chronic reflux leads to EE which can lead to GERD (and/or vice versa) which can lead to Barrets, which can lead to esophageal cancer. 

This very pathway is what killed my twin after years of having reflux and self treating it.


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> Keep an eye on it. I'm sure you know this already, but I will repeat it any way.
> You are at a higher risk of developing esophageal cancer because of EE and GERD.
> Chronic reflux leads to EE which can lead to GERD (and/or vice versa) which can lead to Barrets, which can lead to esophageal cancer.
> 
> This very pathway is what killed my twin after years of having reflux and self treating it.


Oh yes, I have been checked several times, for Barrett's Esophagus, which is the cancer you are referring to. 

Early on, I was told I had it, but several biopsy since have been negative.  So yes, I am aware of Barrett's, and I am keeping an eye on it.

And as far as "self treating", I discussed my use of baking soda, with my doctor at the Mayo Clinic, and he totally supported that as a treatment modality.  Thanks for your concern.

I'm sorry for your loss of your twin. That must have been very hard.


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## Wehner Homestead

Thank you for the info @Devonviolet. I think I read about all of that somewhere in your journal. I will pray that it heals!


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## goatgurl

wow joe, congratulations on all the new babies.  glad everyone is doing well.  pretty babies.  and glad dot is milking well for you.  her mama was a milking fool.  is april doing ok feeding her three?  and I keep reminding you that april isn't 1/2-1/2 meat and milk but 3/4 milk and 1/4 meat.  she should milk well too. glad you, @Devonviolet  and her dh had a good disbudding day.  one of my least favorite goat jobs.  glad to see things are going well.


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## Latestarter

I don't know why I keep hanging on the 50/50 vice 75/25 dairy/meat mix... I'll try to stick that in my mind for good this time. Regardless, yes, April is doing well feeding all 3 and has been a real good and attentive mom. She routinely paws at the kids to get them up and pushed under her to drink. Sh'e is also no longer my fat goat. She now looks just as dairy as the others. Bang is doing a bang up job raising hers and Dot's kids by herself. Dot gets sentimental and sniffs/cleans all 4 (hers & Bang's) as well but doesn't (routinely) feed any of them (that I'm aware of). I DID see one of Dot's kids latch on to her the other afternoon for a couple of quick sips and Dot stood still for him.  So I guess the sisters are co-parenting the 4 kids of theirs. Once again, I'm only milking Dot. All the others are dam raising their offspring. All the kids are growing well and active. No hold over stress from yesterday's disbudding.

The girl I'm so infatuated with is not the one in the box that DV shared. Although I may stick with beauty as a name for her. Here's is Champagne with one of Dot's boys behind. The pic(s) are from my phone, shrunk, and Emailed to me so not the highest quality. The mix of shadings and color on her, especially her face isn't really shown well here. DV has seen and held her, so she can tell you her impression as well.





Here are Dot's boys


 


 

The wear on the mower blades is indeed the grasses and weeds I'm mowing. That and the fact that sticks get mowed as does dirt in some cases... Like running over/through fire ant hills. The blade actually bends up, back behind the cutting edge, which is what lifts, & deflects the cut material out the exit. That bent area of the blades gets cut through till it's basically non existent. You can see what I mean in the pic below. This one was from the last set (of 3) I changed out. Additionally, you can see how the end of the blade wears through and gets rounded and thus shortened. The result is that it leaves lines of uncut material in 2 rows down either side of center of the mowing path since the center blade no longer "overlaps" the outer blades in the cutting swath.


 

Oh, some good news today... my Sprint bill is due tomorrow so I called them to see what they could do to match or beat what wally world offers with straight talk. Best there was $35/mo, w/no contract, unlim talk & text, 2 GB of data, on 4GLTE. Sprint gave me the same plan for $30/month plus a $10 credit immediately and for the next 2 months to stay with them, no contract.  That's $25/mo cheaper than what I had. $300/yr saving doesn't sound like much, but it sure helps. Also priced out a new S7 to replace my S6, and wally has them for $399... Found one new, and unlocked online for $229. Sprint said I could get their simm card for ~$10 at any sprint store and have it installed for instant phone access. Holding off on that purchase for now.


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## goatgurl

we may never know who is feeding whom but I can tell you that whoever seems to be doing a good job.  they all look great, fat and healthy.  and the 3/4-1/4 or 1/2-1/2 is really not a big deal I just wanted you to remember that she is more milk than meat and should milk very well.  and you are right champagne is a doll baby. I got a lot of chocolate colored babies this year too.  1 white, 2 cream, one chocolate frosting and the all are dark chocolate.  
I do the same thing with my lawn mower, use it as a mini brush hog and then wonder why the blades won't stay sharp, lol.   
I know the girls are proud of the fact that you are working hard to get fences built. good for you and them.


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## Mike CHS

I always like the way you can see the smarts on the kids faces. Our lambs come out with a blank look like they are trying to decide if they should freeze or run.


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## Latestarter

So earlier today (yesterday now) the temp was up in the high 70s, humidity was up there as well and we were under a sever T-storm watch. Had the house opened up over night and closed down 1st thing this morning but had to put the AC on anyway. No storms here but did get a little windy early evening as the front passed through. Now it's in the upper 40s outside and may get as low as upper 30s tonight. House, needless to say, is NOT opened up tonight. May end up having to run the heat for a little bit in the morning to knock off the chill. Next shot at rain is Friday and Friday night. 

While looking at the national radar it appears @Mike CHS might have gotten a substantial amount of rain once again.


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## Mike CHS

We did get a bunch of wind and noise but only 1/2" of rain.


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## CntryBoy777

We got 1.3" of rain, wind, and lost power for a couple of hrs due to a lightning strike somewhere along the line....wasn't close by....ducks are Happy again........out of the next 7 days, 4 are with rain.....glub....glub!!


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> This one was from the last set (of 3) I changed out. Additionally, you can see how the end of the blade wears through and gets rounded and thus shortened. The result is that it leaves lines of uncut material in 2 rows down either side of center of the mowing path since the center blade no longer "overlaps" the outer blades in the cutting swath.


The other part of that is, that kind of extreme wear results in vibration that will quickly cause rotating parts (bearings, idlers, belts) and even springs to fail because the individual blades are no where near balanced anymore. You may not be able to feel the vibration from the mower seat simply because it happens slowly over time and you don't notice but vibration is a leading cause of premature bearing failure in spindles and idlers.


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## Latestarter

Stretched and attached the back section of fence. Then rolled out, cut, attached the stretcher bar, and stood up the lower section of the left side fence (below the two gates). Hopefully tomorrow I'll stretch and attach it then roll out, cut, and stretch/attach the upper section of the left side (above the two gates). I'm fighting with a kidney stone right now on my right side. Sharp pains every time I lift my right leg. Might take a pain killer at bed time tonight. Drinking power aid and hope I can flush the danged thing out. I looked in the rotted post hole I started and it's finally dry. Might could get back to that soon as well. The rain I was supposed to get out of this last front went right on by without dropping any moisture at all here. I have to get a buck pasture set up ASAP before all these babies become fruitful and wanting to multiply...

A few days ago I broke down and bought a 4qt stainless milk strainer along with 3 boxes of filters. Figure at 200 to a box and using 2 a day, each box will last about 3 months. They had the filters on sale if I bought three boxes, so I did. It was delivered this afternoon while I was stretching fence. I got to use it tonight after milking Dot. OMG...   what a difference! I had 3 quarts filtered and in the fridge in 1/2 the time it used to take to filter 1 quart using a funnel and coffee filters. Should have spent the bucks & got one last year  I'm not even going to try to save and reuse the filters... just not worth the effort (or the contamination risk). As fast as the milk filters through, I at first wondered if it was actually filtering... I did find out that the spout will not fit in a standard opening ball jar though... Have to use the wide mouth jars. 

Supposed to be down to 39°f tonight... I opened up the house when I came in as it was a little warm in here. Guess I better close everything back down pretty quick here. Now everything is closed and it a little chilly in here... can't win. Had a banana and a fruit bar to eat today and now I'm hungry. Took out a rack of St Louis ribs for tomorrow and a 3 pack of chicken legs for tonight. Threw them in hot water in the sink to thaw them a bit and just put them in the oven at 400° for an hour. They were still partially frozen, but I don't want to eat at 11:00. 

Got a call earlier right as I came in, from @Devonviolet letting me know that her Falina had dropped twin doelings! AWESOME! Good to hear no complications and all is well with these kids. Looking fwd to meeting them in a week or so to fry their brains (disbudding).   Maybe I'll bring them some more goat milk when I go over. They won't be getting any from Falina for a couple of months. She'll be giving it all to those kids.


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## Bruce

Sounds like the fencing is going well 
Sure hope that stone moves on, I've suffered them myself and "no fun" doesn't even come close to describing them. Went to the ER once with one, they asked about pain level with the 10 faces picture. I would have drawn one on the right, with a pistol to it's head.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Sharp pains every time I lift my right leg.


Well,................Don't.


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## Wehner Homestead




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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Well,................Don't.


Spoken like a doctor.


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## Latestarter

Very difficult to have any mobility if one doesn't lift their legs... I guess I could belly crawl  It's a real joy climbing on and off the lawn tractor and in and out of the truck. Also fun kneeling down and getting up repetitively... So I drove the trash to the head of the driveway for trash day tomorrow then cruised into town for a take out pizza. Get back home, get in the house, open the back door to let Mel in and there's the sight I've dreaded... the hay feeder is on it's side.   Of course I had just filled it with hay before heading out. So I go on down, hoping I'm not going to find any crushed kids as they love to sleep underneath it. I get there and my stupid wether CM is standing, trapped inside the feeder between the fencing and the catch tray. Now, I don't know if he's the one that tipped it over as I've never seen him pushing on it. I've only seen my stupid buck RJ pushing on it. He sticks his head inside against the fencing and pushes. So maybe CM was on the other side when RJ pushed it over, and he got stuck. I don't know... idiot boy goats.  No kids injured (this time). It better not happen again. Maybe I should switch to sheep... They seem to get into a lot less trouble.

Got the lower section of fence I started on yesterday stretched and mostly attached. Need to do the wraps on the posts at either end and the bottom clips on all the T posts. That's all the fencing I got done today. Also finished mowing inside the pasture I'm fencing. Supposed to be a chance of strong T-storms tomorrow afternoon and evening. Hopefully they'll hold off and I can get what's hung finished and maybe hang another gate. 

Cooked up a rack of St Louis ribs today for lunch. Ate half the rack. Man were they good.  I'll have the other 1/2 tomorrow.


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## Baymule

We're gonna have to come see you and make all the appropriate admiring noises over your fencing and kids! Getting fencing done is HUGE and it feels so darn good to get it done. Every post put in place is a victory. Hanging a gate is cause for celebration. Congrats on all the hard work you are doing. Being able to turn the goats out to graze will be wonderful.


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## Mike CHS

As long as you are eating good I guess that is half the battle.  

Body parts don't always cooperate but we all seem to manage.


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## CntryBoy777

So glad that it wasn't costly to ya....know it was a bit of an anxious moment as ya investigated. Sounds like the fencing is going well for ya and hope ya can get it secured before the weather rolls in....I keep hoping to get some cutting done, but the fields are still holding water....guess I'll have to develope a hover mower to cut some of it..........those ribs sound


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## greybeard

Just drag it along Joe.



 fractured left radius near my wrist over the weekend. Fracture is at the very top left. 
Aside from a broken big toe 2 decades ago, this is the first fracture I've ever had.


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## Alaskan

greybeard said:


> Just drag it along Joe.
> View attachment 46358 fractured left radius near my wrist over the weekend. Fracture is at the very top left.
> Aside from a broken big toe 2 decades ago, this is the first fracture I've ever had.


what excitement caused that?

hope it heals fast


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## greybeard

Sorting mommas from calves in an alley leading to the headgate, went to open a  3' wide 3-way sort gate and one of the mommas tried to force her way thru the same gate her calf went and I got my forearm squeezed between the gate and stanchion. Bone doesn't pain me much but the blood pooling is a bother. Not much can be done with it so it will have to heal on it's own.


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## frustratedearthmother

Ouch!


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Not much can be done with it so it will have to heal on it's own.


Um, nothing? Like getting it set in a cast maybe???


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## greybeard

They could have, but they said for this particular fracture, a cast wouldn't do anything a steel plate embedded in a good brace won't do. 
And i can have lots more mobility with the brace than with a cast, especially in wet environments.
It'll heal...or it won't.


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## CntryBoy777

Sure sorry to hear about that GB....am glad they didn't decide to make ya the next six million $$ man....can't keep up with ya now, I'd be really behind if that wew to happen....take care of yourself best ya can and hopefully it will heal just fine for ya....


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## Wehner Homestead

Wow! I don’t deal much with ortho other than the occasional hip fracture as most cases don’t land in icu. Be sure to wear your brace to protect the area from further damage, use caution with lifting, take in appropriate and if possible, extra, calcium and protein to encourage healing. I’ll say a prayer that the bone mends in a timely manner!


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## Latestarter

I got nuthin on you GB... Guess I'll stop complaining about my aches and pains or next thing you'll break your neck or some such... Sorry about your wrist, & hope you heal up OK. Had a tornado warning pass north of me earlier today. Some good T-storms passed over but nothing compared with what middle LA is dealing with and TX south of I-20. I don't know GB but you might have some rain headed your way before this whole thing is over. Think I got about an inch...

Was down visiting with the baby goats and one of the young bucks has already dinged up one of his burn rings to bleeding. Carried him up to the house and cleaned it up some and blukoted it. I'm really liking Dots 2 boys more and more. They are growing the best and are the largest/heaviest of the lot. They are also nursing off both Bang and Dot. So I guess that explains why they're growing so well. I try to make a habit of picking them up as often as I can to get them used to humans. If they're gonna be someone's herdsire, it would be nice if they are friendly.

Got nada accomplished today. Combination of weather and lazy. All out of hay so called my normal supplier. He has some now, which he didn't the last time I needed some. He said it's a little more stemmy so it's only $11/bale vice the normal $12. Made arrangements to go pick up some tomorrow late morning. By then the hay feeder will be empty. Didn't want to get it today because of the wet. Don't need over $100 of moldy hay.


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## Alaskan

you need yourself a great big barn to store you up some hay..... or you could just put it in your house.


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## Latestarter

So it was supposed to be mostly/partly sunny today but cooler. Well, it's all gray and there's wet stuff falling from the sky intermittently. It is cooler though... like 41° and looks like that's gonna be the high temp.  Past few days were mid 70s... Just looked and forecast for 32° tonight...  Inside temp was 63 so turned the heat on set to 68.  

Went and picked up hay anyways as the goats were licking the bottom catch tray of the hay feeder for flavor... Tried to get between rain squalls and almost was successful. Left it in the bed parked in the car port hoping it doesn't get much wetter between now and when we have sun again. It got wet, at least the outer bales did. Brought one bale down and it fit perfectly in the hay feeder.  Put it in then cut/removed the twine and all is good and wonderful   Not sure how well that last part will go with bales tied with wire... Guess we'll find out at some point.
So as I rounded the corner with the bale of hay in my wheel barrow for the goats, I find Dot outside the pen, happily munching on weeds along the storm cellar hill. OK... the gate is closed and latched... how the hell did she get out? So I find one spot where they've been pushing against the cattle panel down by the bottom to reach the outside grass. Looks like she pushed it far enough that she could squeeze through. I have to get the fencing done...

After putting dot and the hay in the pen, I watch as Dot lets one of her boys nurse. Seems I'm not going to have to worry about lots of excess milk after all. I got a bit less than 1/2 gallon from her this morning, and that's normally when she gives the most. Curious to see what she gives this evening. Might be able to move to milking once a day sooner than anticipated.


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## Baymule

Yeah, today was cold and wet. I stayed in and did laundry, much to DH's relief......LOL


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## farmerjan

It's been cold, damp, wet, raw,  and WHITE here today.  Friday was sun and near 70;  today it never got above 40, dropping from 58 at midnight, and is 37 but feels colder.  Only 28 at my son's 5 miles away and they are literally snow covered.  Grass/trees/bushes everything is white.  Not just frosted but white.  Started about 1 p. m. when we were at a bull sale by 2 local farmers that have registered Angus and the other registered Limousin cattle.  Alot of people, too cold & crappy to do anything else.  All sold but one for at least the minimum price listed, some more.  Between $2,500 and a couple hit 6,000.  We had no intentions of buying another bull, went to just talk to neighbors and such.  Saw one we both liked alot although I am not usually a Limousin fan due to them often having some very "protective" and sometimes aggressive temperments.  But we wound up getting the one to use as a backup bull. Cost around $3600 I think.  Really like his build, he has a good round rump.  Too many bulls have gotten that "hatchet-azz" as we call it.  I want something that "has an azz".  We have added 3 bulls in the last 4 months.  Sold one we have used for several years and he was starting to have some feet problems.  He was walking good and it was a good time to let him go.  He will wind up as bologna as do 90% of the big older bulls do;  cooked meats. Weighed just shy of 2,000 lbs.  and not our biggest bull.
  We have a couple of people that have rented bulls from us over the years.  It doesn't pay for a small farmer with only 15-25 cows to buy a bull that they will only use for 2-3 months a year.  So we have found that we can provide a service, make a few dollars and they feed them for 4 or so months.  It is a risk if the bull should get injured, but we have agreements that if the bull is injured or something, they "own the bull" for a pre-agreed price.  Not a way to "make money" but it helps and they aren't eating in our lot.  Have a couple of people that have bought a bull from us after we have gotten done with them for a year or several.  Again, not a "money making" thing, but sometimes gives a decent bull a 2nd lease on life.  We don't keep any bulls that have bad attitudes, they go to the stockyards and kill.  

PLEASE SPRING COME TO VIRGINIA......  it is supposed to be sunny but 40's tomorrow, then another round of snow showers or something Sunday night into Monday.    YUCK.....


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## Latestarter

Sorry Jan. Man... the weather is weird all over. I thought we were past all this and headed into hot & humid, but I guess not so much. Feels like a late December day outside. 40°, pretty breezy and clear blue skies. Sun is shining nicely but wind chill puts it in the low to mid 30s. Gonna wait till this afternoon to move the hay from the truck to the pallets. I have them (pallets) all uncovered to hopefully air/dry out a bit.

Went out to milk this morning and saw Bang laying in a huge puddle of milk so plans changed from milking Dot to milking Bang. Just to save you the trouble of trying to determine the answer to an oft asked question, I'll enlighten you right now. Yes, the cranium of a goat is very hard. It will place a dent in even a very heavy, 1 gallon stainless steel bowl. The milking started out OK, but after a spell Bang decided she should start acting up. After placing her crap covered hoof in the bowl, tipping it, kicking it, dumping it, and wasting over 1/2 a gallon of milk, I picked up the now empty bowl and bopped her on the head with it.   Didn't phase her in the least and my bowl is now marked for life.  I did successfully deflate both chambers of her udder, so I got a win in at least that round.  But, I have to conclude that she won the bout. 

Because the bowl was totally contaminated I didn't keep Dot's milk either. She only gave about 1/2 gallon once again, so I know she's nursing the kids. In fact one of her boys and one of Bang's girls tried to climb under for a sip while I was milking.  One of her boys did nurse after I'd finished. I didn't empty her completely so they could have some.


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> Have a couple of people that have bought a bull from us after we have gotten done with them for a year or several. Again, not a "money making" thing, but sometimes gives a decent bull a 2nd lease on life.


And, it helps offset the cost of the replacement bull. 
(I've bought more than one 'pre-owned/used' bull just to get by for a couple of seasons.)


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Bang decided she should start acting up. After placing her crap covered hoof in the bow, tipping it, kicking it, dumping it, and wasting over 1/2 a gallon of milk,


  

Been there, done that!!!  My "stainless steel bucket" is actually an old cooking utensil holder. It holds a little less than a gallon. The thing I like about it, is it is taller than it is wide.  I hold onto it, with my left hand while I milk with the right. The _second_ I see a leg move, I pull the bucket out of harm's way.  I have also started emptying it into a 1/2 gallon jar when I have a quart of milk, _just in case _a dirty hoof finds its mark. 

Ruby was my "bad girl" in the beginning. But lately, I have to be ready to pull the bucket out of the way when I'm milking Falina.


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## Latestarter

I normally milk the left udder with my right hand (goat facing to my left) and milk the right udder with my left hand (goat facing to my right). That way when the leg comes up I can (generally) block it with the forearm of my milking hand. Danged animals learn ways around it though... like jumping up a little while lifting the leg over the milking forearm and planting the hoof where least desired. Or throwing her entire body backwards then lunging forward. I've tried the "pull the bucket away" and often times end up sloshing milk out all over my hand and the ground anyway.


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## farmerjan

Sun is out and only white is the backside of the hills and bushes in the shade.  It got down to 25 and is barely 41 at noon....Another round they are saying tonight;  starting as rain then changing over to some snow....cold again.  BUT WAIT..... there is relief on the horizon.  Up to the 70's by the end of the week.  Talk about why people are sick with these flu bugs and start to get over them and then have relapses.....


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## frustratedearthmother

LS - you NEEEEEEEED a milk stand!  You built an awesome hay feeder so a milk stand should be easy peasy!


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## Devonviolet

frustratedearthmother said:


> LS - you NEEEEEEEED a milk stand!  You built an awesome hay feeder so a milk stand should be easy peasy!


   X2


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## Alaskan

my kids slapped one together from a bunch of junk... it works well .


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## Bruce

Or tie the girls' back feet down! But a stand would make everything easier, especially on your back. It would give you something to attach the leg tie down ropes to as well.


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## Latestarter

Gosh all this talk about tieing legs down and bondage stuff...  Gets me to thinking about whips... and chains... & boards with rusty nails... OH MY!    I actually have 2 brand new pallets that are identical and picked up specifically to make a milk stand/stanchion. They're brand new, heavy duty, & perfect size. Just have to get the time to put one together. As for the hay feeder, the stoopid RJ buck pushed it over two more times and I finally had enough. He's gonna taste great on the grill. No, just kidding. I pounded in a T post to keep it upright. I'm sure if he really wants it on its side again, he'll find a way and I'll have to pound a 2nd T post. Dumb a$$ goat... 

Went out and got my 3 propane tanks filled. Ran out on the last one during my last grill episode and went to grill a rib eye the other night only to find it was not an option. Ended up pan frying it. Not even close. Works OK with thin sliced breakfast steaks but not so much on a thick steak. Swung by wally world to get turbo tax only to find they didn't carry it this year.  I do NOT want to do my taxes online or in a cloud somewhere where God knows who will have access to the info. <Sigh> So I have to get cracking on taxes here.

So while there I picked up a couple big bags of puppy chow for the local animal shelter. They're always in need of puppy chow. So I walk through into the dog area and the first thing I see is a pyr!   What a friendly boy! Damn shame it wasn't a female.  No background info as he was picked up as a stray. 2 more days till his emancipation (if he goes unclaimed he'll be available for adoption)... Thinking about it... Not pure pyr, but largest percentage. Has the long off white coat, color, & build but more like Baymule's Trip than Southern's big bruisers.

Picked up some lasagna noodles & ricotta cheese, so prob looking at doing that tomorrow.   Stopped at chicken express while out and had 6 hot wings, 2 thighs and a biscuit so not really hungry right now. Shoot, reminds me I left my sweet tea in the truck... Gotta go get that.


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## Wehner Homestead

We just dropped our taxes off to our guy today...nothing like procrastinating! Lol

Hope RJ leaves the hay feeder alone. I know our bulls usually push on about anything that they can! 

Let me know how your lasagna and this Pyr turns out!!


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## Bruce

You could use the shelter Pyr as a guardian dog since Mel thinks he is a house pet


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## luvmypets

Wow, looks like those goats keep you on your feet. I love the babies, they are so precious!


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## Baymule

Trip made a good guardian, he's a little on the light side, at the 100 pound mark. He is lean, he runs all night long, can't put weight on him. He came in a little while ago for a nap. It lasted for about 15 minutes, then he was ready to go back out. 

You could try that puppy, get him neutered later on so there wouldn't be any male hormone fusses. Trip (not neutered) and Parker (neutered) are best buddies. As long as you are the alpha dog, you can make it work. Unless you really want a female so she can have a litter of puppies for you.


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## Latestarter

Still have till like 10am tomorrow to decide on the dog. Still haven't made up my mind. Wouldn't be getting him with plans to use as an LGD. More another house dog until I could determine if he has LGD capability in him. He's not 100% pyr... Can't really tell what else is in him though.

As for the lasagna... well, all I can say is I'm still stuffed! Used Goat mozzarella from @Devonviolet regular mozz from the store, ricotta, and a light dust of parmesan on top as a "binder" since it has a higher melt temp.  Here's some pics for you @Wehner Homestead 



 


 


 

Just got finished with milk chores. Checked Dot earlier and she was "soft" on both sides so figured she'd been feeding her boys. Checker her again at feeding time and she was hard as a rock. After feeding I had to go milk her to relieve pressure. She gave me a drop or two over a full gallon. She was very uncomfortable at the start, but when I finished, she sure looked a heck of a lot more comfy. I didn't wait for a second release so if her boys want to nurse now there should still be some in there for them.

It was a challenge to milk as I had goat kids between my knees, climbing up my legs and back, trying to eat the milk bowl cover, teasing Dot into lunging toward them to chase them off... And just generally being adorable   Baby goats... what can a body do?


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## Baymule

Aren't you having fun and enjoying every minute of it?


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## Mini Horses

I could sure chow down on that lasagna right now!    Looks real good.   I'll be milking again in a couple weeks.   Can't wait for the fresh milk & cheeses.   With my new (to me) cream separator & cheese press, I will be attempting some cheddar this year.   Also saved a recipe for some charcoal type...really want to give that one a go.    Your pics have inspired me! 

First "self do" disbudding this weekend.   Yikes!!  I'm dreading it!  A friend is bringing 3 bucklings for me to band for her Friday.  Guess this will be the weekend  for squeals & squals....I've done plenty of bands & emasculatings, even some cut & pulls  -- rather that than disbud!  Weird.

With LaManchas you generally do the tail for tattoo, so what do you use?   My kits are for ears, which yours don't have    although they open wide enough for a tail for a young animal.  The boer also allowed implanted chips -- but I generally did the ears, as well.  Some were also chipped.


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## Alaskan

Mini Horses said:


> even some cut & pulls


I greatly prefer that over banding.   

And better than disbudding.


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## babsbag

For tattooing tails you can use the same thing you use for ears, unless of course you want to tattoo babies. That I discovered is pretty much impossible unless you have a small tattoo kit. And like everything else, the less common it is the more it cost and I wasn't going to spend $$$ to tattoo some kids I was selling for 100.00. Not happening. So I put my herd tattoo in the tail and sold them, not what I am supposed to do but it is what I did. 

I am looking at getting the tattooer that you write with, like a pen. So much easier on the babies. I think.


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## Hens and Roos

We have a tattoo pen, we aren't really good at it....the instructions say to practice on bananas!


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## Devonviolet

I have hand tremors. On a good day I can't read my own writing, using a pen on paper.

Somehow I don't think that hand tattooer would work for me.


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## Bruce

It would work ... until someone wanted to read it


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## Wehner Homestead

The lasagna looks yummy!! Good job!!!!!


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## Queen Mum

I am finally milking!  Can't wait to make cheese!


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## babsbag

When we were trying to tattoo tails on the babies I was wishing I raised Nubians. Those long ears look perfect for tattoos. I have a few more LM babies to do too, what a pain...for me and them.


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## Mini Horses

Yep, Nubian & Boer...lotsa space there.     My Saanen does have large ears, so not bad to do.   But, I don't bother any on those danged boys that -- like you -- I sell. 

BUT  I now have TWO sets of nice kits.    Will just sell this one. Has the release tab, numbers & letters, creams, etc.  Used on  two kids.  LOL


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## Latestarter

Haven't done any tattoos and have no idea how/when/why/etc. I know they are supposed to be done in the tail on Lamanchas. I didn't do the kids last year, haven't done the kids this year. I don't think any of the adults are done except maybe the buck which I bought registered. @goatgurl are any of the animals I bought from you tattooed? I guess I could go catch them and lift their tails and look... I don't recall seeing any...  OK, so should I decide to accept this mission, what numbers do I tattoo? How is the tattoo determined? Should it go from base of tail out toward tip, or tip toward the base of tail? (Boy... I'm already imagining just how much fun THIS little evolution is going to be )

So I've been back to fencing and finished wrapping a couple of ends and hung another gate. Have a couple more ends to wrap then I can hang another gate. Then one more long run to stretch and attach another gate, then I can rig up a temp fence gate out of a cattle panel to let them goaties roam free while I finish the rest around the yard perimeter. 

Kinda stiff and sore so finally called the spa dealer direct to see about repairs. The guy said to pull both filters, cycle power to hard restart and see if that solves the issue. Yup... sure as sh^t did     I've been without a soak all this time for something as simple as replacing the filters?   So the spa guy I spoke with lives here in town (store is in Longview) and said to give him a call if it fixed the problem and he'll bring me replacement filters when he comes home tonight.  Doubt I'll get to soak tonight as it needs to re-heat, but will put those new filters on this evening and should be back in business! 30 bucks a piece though... A nice aspect to not having the spa running... This month's electric bill was much more manageable at $116. Hope I can keep it in that ballpark for the next couple of months. Don't really need any more >$300 electric bills... But, AC season is coming real soon, so we'll see.

Got a call from @Devonviolet and she tells me her two little baby goatie girls are developing horn nubs now. So I'll head over there on Saturday and get those kids disbudded for them. Gonna bring them a chunk of the lasagna I made (and froze) so her DH can sample and she said she'll try a couple of small bites as well. She can't eat much due to the tomato sauce & her allergies.

Another good bit of info I got today. Seems that this town has a dump/landfill. Also turns out that since I'm paying for trash pickup, I'm entitled to two free dump drops/yr with proof of paid trash pick up. Also, each trip is NOT size/weight limited, so I can haul in a pull trailer as well. So, rather than pay hundreds for a roll on roll off dumpster, I can hook up the trailer and load it and the bed with all the crap in the ditch and haul it to the dump free.  Or at least as much as I can haul in two trips.

Swung by the pound and as expected, the male pyr was gone  Adopted within hours of emancipation.  Probably for the best. Really want a large female from known LGD parents.


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## Mini Horses

on the hot tub fix!!!    Gotta love a good, hot soak!


Tattooing  --  MOST only do this for registration.  That & identity,  serves nothing more.    It's a lot less issue than disbudding.     I only do if I register.  Two mini doelings will get the full treatment due to that.   Waiting on others to kid in next 3 weeks...3 does.   Didn't breed others.  Next year, early in with buck, early kids, more to sell.  Now?  Less to feed.  LOL

The particular registry has "rules" about letters & numbers, etc. that you use, where they go and so forth.

One day I may get another hot tub


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## babsbag

For the tattoo when you join ADGA you choose a herd tattoo and if available they assign it to you. Each year has a letter tattoo that ADGA uses and then you add the number of the kid. So this year is K. So my first kid born here that is registered is K1, then K2, etc. That is how most people do it. My herd tattoo is BAG1. 

The herd tattoo goes in the right ear or on the right tail web. The year tattoo goes in the left.  When you do tails you want to make sure you don't get the cartilage in the middle, don't want to break a tail.  Most of my goats that are born and raised here are never tattooed unless I sell them. They are registered and have a tattoo number assigned, it just isn't done. Bad me.  I had to tattoo them all when I did the Brucellosis testing and the TB testing. I only did the left ears, I will do the herd tattoo if it is ever required at sale time.


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## Latestarter

Had my first kid discover the joys of jumping in and (very hastily) jumping back out, of the water trough.   Little fella was rather freaked out by the whole thing. I've been keeping the water level down a bit from full just for such an occasion. Knew it was but a matter of time. Don't want any drowned kids. Love being down there with the kids. They're so cute. I have nine and there are 4 or 5 that are very friendly and come to me to climb on and try bumping for a drink.  2 of April's kids are the friendliest then one of Dot's, one of CB's, and one of Bang's. 2 of the bucklings and one doeling are pretty standoffish and difficult to catch or even get close to. I guess I better put more effort into catching and holding them.

Had the house opened up last night. Very gray day today and humidity is very high. Had to turn the AC on after closing the place up this morning to get it (humidity) back down inside. Was 73° inside and is now 70° outside. Expecting T-storms today and tonight. Big blanket of spread out weather over by DFW, so couple hours away from here.  We'll see I guess.

So goat chores are done, just finished a bagel for breakfast, and really don't feel like doing much of anything at the moment. Do have to get my taxes done and sent this weekend at some point. Hope everyone has a great Friday.


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## Bruce

We finished ours yesterday. e-filed the Fed since it is free. DW took the printed state return to mail at work. DDs need to get their butts in gear. Their taxes are EASY. Not much income, no deductions, still listed as dependents on ours.


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## Mini Horses

Awwwwhhhh  --  yes, the joys of taxation.  I haven't paid any for a long time. This year, just a little over my "don't have to pay limit".   So, Uncle will be waiting for $$.  Good part is that I will get almost as much back from state -- not a huge amount to pay now @150. Just hate to give them any -- it's mine.    

I bet your goatie jumped out faster than in!   I learned years ago to keep the buckets in foaling and kidding stalls up so we didn't have a new one dropped in there, or stumble in.   Most of the time the horses & goats lay down to kid but, occasionally one doesn't.   AND the drinking tubs not only need to be lowered -- as you say -- but there needs to be some low sided waterers, so the kids can actually reach the water to drink.

Had a guy pick-up a mini to transport to a new owner and he nicely pointed out the clean stall, hay and water.  Told him it was all good if he had a ladder for the mini to drink!  We lowered the bucket accordingly  

Hope your having a great 
Friday 13th....mine is going well so far.    And weather is awesome!  Good tomorrow and Sunday daytime, then showers evening and Monday.


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## Latestarter

Taxes done and E-filed just moments ago. Getting a little over $1,300 back and of course no state taxes here in TX. Just rcvd my appraisal notice for the present tax year. Value went up, as expected, and property taxes went up a little over $100.00... $1,700 & change... guess I can't complain too much. 

Have had a couple of downpours today. None have lasted long and lots of thunder, but the major storms have either gone around me or died before getting over me then reformed after they passed over. I'm OK with that as these have tornado potential. Big line north of I-30 (and me) right now and another south of I-20, all moving east. Looks like the in between area is starting to develop, all just east of Dallas, so I should have stuff coming later. Guess Mel's gonna be an inside doggie tonight


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## Baymule

Trip is sprawled out in the floor. It lightening'ed so much that the security light went off. It has pretty much gone past us now, but the rain blew sideways and came down in sheets of water. Thunder is still rumbling, but the worst is gone, probably coming to you now. Just looked at the radar, oughta be thundering at your place now!


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## Latestarter

Just got out of the spa (can we have a Hallelujah! ) Lightning all around me but not directly overhead yet. Man did it feel good to jacuzzi again . Glad you made it through the storms Bay. Guess it's almost on top of me now.


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## CntryBoy777

We have over 2" in the gauge right now and plenty of more on the way....sure glad I was able to get the fields cut before this came in.....


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## Mini Horses

Hopefully you guys get enough of the liquid that it will be just a pleasant, light rain when it gets here tomorrow night & Monday!
We could use some moisture but, don't need all the drama along with it.   Temps are high for weekend.  Little too much wind -- yeah, I want "more"   of what I want.  Not always what comes along. 

I actually have an entire day OFF !!!   I intend to enjoy working outside today.


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## Latestarter

Sure looked impressive and lots of light show and thunder, but only an inch of rain. Had a couple of baby goats under the hay feeder when it started... about 1/2 way through I guess they deemed their position precarious and untenable and came out in the down pour and high tailed it over and into the shelter. When they first came out from under, they were standing there in the downpour, probably thinking to themselves "WTH?"   Much cooler today, 48° right now with forecast high of 59. Wind is quite brisk as well @ ~15 mph with higher gusts. Sky is blue with no clouds in sight though, and the sun is shining bright. Out of the wind, it feels very nice out.

An entire day off Mini? I thought you were retired?   What do you have a day off from? Whatever the case, sure hope you enjoy and get your hands plenty dirty! 

Well, in a couple of hours I'll be headed over to help @Devonviolet and her DH, and share a meal. Gonna bring them 4+ gallons of fresh goat milk for cheese making and a (frozen) sample of my lasagna.


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## Devonviolet

We had quite the light show as well.  I don't know if we got hail though. I forgot to check the truck when I was out there.

Our sun is out too. Wind is about 30 mph, with temp of 50°F., making the Real Feel temp 42°F.

Our little girl's horn buts are growing, so it will be good to have @Latestarter over to disbud them.  We were going to do it on the front porch. But with that chilly wind, we decided to do it in the barn, out of the wind.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> $1,700 & change... guess I can't complain too much.


You know I'd trade you in a second!


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## Latestarter

I definitely hear ya Bruce... I'm originally from up that way and simply couldn't afford to live there now. OK, so DV's little goat darlings have been disbudded. Did it inside the barn as mentioned above... Didn't clip hair first so got full force burning hair smoke cloud right in the face on the very first burn. Then had DV's DH open the barn door and set up a fan and not so bad after that. Had definite tickle in the throat for an hour or so after that evolution.

Thanks to DV and her DH for their hospitality and a good meal!


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> I definitely hear ya Bruce... I'm originally from up that way and simply couldn't afford to live there now. OK, so DV's little goat darlings have been disbudded. Did it inside the barn as mentioned above... Didn't clip hair first so got full force burning hair smoke cloud right in the face on the very first burn. Then had DV's DH open the barn door and set up a fan and not so bad after that. Had definite tickle in the throat for an hour or so after that evolution.
> 
> Thanks to DV and her DH for their hospitality and a good meal!


We always enjoy having you over LS!   And this time we really appreciate you doing one of the most disliked job, for most goat owners.  You did a great job, and I'm confident we won't have any scurs!  Thank you so much!!!


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## Baymule

It rained last night past midnight. Several times thunder shook the house. And today we found....

Look closely, that’s the carport with the mule in it. Appears to be a slight krinkle in the carport. 



 




 




 

In the morning a friend is coming over to finish taking it down. Our DD and DSIL need firewood for next winter, so it won’t go to waste.


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## Devonviolet

YIKES @Baymule!  What a mess!  I'm glad you & DH were safe through it all.


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## greybeard

And people ask me why I don't want any trees anywhere close to my house.........


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## Latestarter

Dang Bay... close call there! Sorry for the damage but glad it wasn't worse! Saw quite a few trees/limbs down today going to/from DV's place. It was a pretty good sized bow echo when it passed over you folks. I heard straight line winds in excess of 60-70MPH. Didn't get quite that bad here...


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## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> An entire day off Mini? I thought you were retired?  What do you have a day off from? Whatever the case, sure hope you enjoy and get your hands plenty dirty!



 Yeah, retired about 10 years ago.  Been working 2 PT jobs ever since.  Some months too busy, others not so much -- a lot of seasonal type  things.  Work a lot of resets of product in stores.  Last week I removed & replaced over 2500 bottles of 2Ltr soft drinks in 4 stores!   I like to say "free gym" workout.  Oh, plus reset the shelving they were on.  Laundry detergent aisles this week. Spring is reset time!     Weekends I do food samplings....whole different ballgame.  Plus free foods.  Also, I like the paycheck each Friday. 

Soon the tractor will be pd and some other things bought, then I will consider being a homebody.    Truthfully, it's not as much fun to be home "alone".   This gives me an outlet with people.  2019 I will either give up one job or work fewer hrs. 

I'm working toward some additional "farm" income.  Once they can pay for their own winter feed, I will probably stay home.   Almost there.  Next year I will have 5 young does to milk train & offer for sale.   I have both registered & unregistered stock.  Saanen & Nubian.  Trained, in milk does do sell well.  Also decent sales at a monthly goat/sheep auction, esp young bucks! for butcher.  I have a lot of pasture.

Found a local with a herd of nice Saanens!    Sent an email just a few min ago because she has some bucklings on CL at a price of $75.  Disbudded & tattooed, 4-6 months old, CAN BE registered. Tested and all that. Just NOT a big market for dairy bucks in this area.   Many small farms with a milking doe or two but, pay for breedings to avoid keeping a buck.   (A service which I may consider offering in Fall)  Need a cross for some dtrs of my buck that are 50/50 nub/saanen.  Love the milk & quantity of Saanen & they have a lovely personality! 

Lot of all white goats can be a downer.....crossed with the black Nub buck, I do get some color & spots.  It's all good!  I'm still having fun most days.   Today it was sunny, 79 and actually HOT!!   What a nice change.   Garden till next week.  Cleaned big coop today and plenty of fertilizer!!


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## Latestarter

Ahhh... nice Mini. I retired from the military almost 18 years ago  Damn... I could have raised a whole second family by now... Fully retired in 2015, so not that long ago. Much as I could use the added income, I am not in the least interested in punching a time clock for anyone else. I've become rather disconnected from society as a whole and more or less anti social and unwilling to put up with a lot of the BS out there.

Glad to hear the farm is almost self sufficient. I think Saanens are pretty goats, even if they are mono color.

You're talking about it being 79 degrees there... I think roles got reversed somehow. OK, so I'm OK with a cold front passing through and all that, and cooler weather is much appreciated in the summer months, but it's 37 degrees out there right now, and the wind is blowing for a "feels like" freezing. I need some in between weather for a while so I don't have to run the heater or the AC.

So I have confirmed that poison ivy/oak season has commenced.   Hate the stuff.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Didn't clip hair first so got full force burning hair smoke cloud right in the face on the very first burn.


That will learn ya! Next time you'll clip. Burning hair isn't the most pleasant odor out there.


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## Baymule

DH is outside with Russel and his boy. Russel went home and got his cab John Deere to pick up limbs on those forks and haul to burn pile. I am inside with grand babies. The little one is taking a nap. 

 I fed them lunch, pork ribs and deviled eggs. Now have lamb ribs in oven . Ribs were taking up a lot of space in the freezer. 

Russell is going to lift up on the trunk that is on the carport and push it off with the tractor.


----------



## Bruce

So apparently not too much damage to the car port roof? 



Baymule said:


> Now have lamb ribs in oven . Ribs were taking up a lot of space in the freezer.


Oh, so sad, you have to eat lamb ribs


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## Baymule

Just a little crunch, not too bad.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm surprised but glad you had so little damage. It's those things like that that caused us to get insurance on all of our equipment.  It only added $110 a year when we added the Ranger to the policy.


----------



## greybeard

Looks like a junky ol sweet gum tree..best thing they can do is commit suicide.


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## Bruce

But do they have to cause collateral damage when they do so??


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> I am not in the least interested in punching a time clock for anyone else. I've become rather disconnected from society as a whole and more or less anti social and unwilling to put up with a lot of the BS out there.



I'm with you on most all of that. The crap I see & hear!   But not good to have NO contacts. (This forum helps with that)  Like me, my friends are ageing & some just want to go with that & their "farm & animal" interests are often put aside.  Eventually I may be there -- not yet!  I try to keep active and keep any health issues at bay as long as I can.  The animals I enjoy, providing for me & them, I enjoy.  Just thankful to be able to do as much as I do.   75% of my work can be adjusted to fit the time & days that I want to work, that makes it doable.  Right now it is just way busy...maybe another month of it, then not bad.  Gives me a little extra to get myself where I feel comfy with quitting it all.  



Latestarter said:


> but it's 37 degrees out there right now, and the wind is blowing for a "feels like" freezing. I need some in between weather for a while so I don't have to run the heater or the AC.



Yeah, we had some in between day temps and bad wind.  Cold nights!!    Believe the real cold is gone & just praying for more of the 70's before this area jumps into 90 & stays.  You remember how it is here, I'm sure!


----------



## Latestarter

Just got done filtering milk. Got a nice surprise this morning. My kidding season is now complete and all 5 does delivered healthy kids. The tally stands even at 5 & 5. CC was nesting last night with a little discharge. I knew she was close, but not how close. This morning she gave me a beautiful little gray doeling single. She's marked similar to Dot's boys (CC is Dot's daughter, so figures). Afterbirth has been passed and kid is cleaned and mostly dried off. Hasn't nursed yet but I'll keep track of that over the coming hours. So I went from having 5 girls to double that   Next season's kidding ought to be a blast!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Congratulations!! Can’t wait to see pics!


----------



## Devonviolet

Congratulations!  That's awesome!


----------



## HomesteaderWife

Latestarter said:


> Much as I could use the added income, I am not in the least interested in punching a time clock for anyone else. I've become rather disconnected from society as a whole and more or less anti social and unwilling to put up with a lot of the BS out there.



Hit the nail on the head. There is just so much nonsense in the world today, and I understand where you are coming from. In my personal opinion, when people learn to become sufficient and work with the world around them, there's something special. Instead of rushing to a work of overtime, weekends, and holidays....you get to spend time in nature and to study the seasons and the animals. Holidays you can spend with family. You also get a sense of pride in your work, because you know what you're doing is for your benefit...whether it be the home being kept up, the animals and crops being tended to be consumed, or all in all just having that freedom to choose.


----------



## Mike CHS

We are constantly visiting neighbors or being visited by them so we are not anti social but I have gotten a zero tolerance for the people in the city so those trips are only made when necessary.  We did find a good Thai restaurant and sushi bar the other day though.


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## Latestarter

OK, so any input/suggestions? https://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/6564212960.html   Placed in East TX and also in Dallas with diff title.

Here's the newest little one. No name yet but a female and pure bred so a keeper:


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sugarfoot....Cute little girl there Joe!!....
When I have to go into Memphis, I always pop in the CCR disc and listen to "Running thru the Jungle".....
My feelings of modern day society is summed up in "Simple Man" by Charlie Daniels.....


----------



## Baymule

That's a very well written ad, good pictures, I like it. It is informative and I like it that you listed that it is a tested herd. I hope you get a good response.


----------



## Mike CHS

I wish everyone would write ads that well. So many times there is so much info left out that I don't bother trying to find out more.  Yours answers all the questions without being asked.


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## Wehner Homestead

X2 to what Mike said about the ad. If I was in the market (and area) for an unregistered buck, I’d be calling you!!

Very pretty little Doeling! She’s not named yet...hmmm...what did you name the other four and maybe we can help you out. 

I can’t wait to see all the colors we get from our Lamanchas when we breed for Minis!


----------



## Latestarter

Have one wethered pet buckling potentially sold. Woman wanted to mail me a deposit check. I invited her to come visit and pick the one she wants. She's coming tomorrow afternoon to look at what I have to offer and leave a deposit. A friend gave her a retired show goat and she wants a companion animal for it. She describes herself as an older "country" woman with livestock experience.


----------



## Latestarter

I initially started out wanting to breed mini Lamanchas. I was set on getting a blue eyed, polled, Nigie herd sire. May still do a run along those lines. Haven't decided yet.


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> OK, so any input/suggestions? https://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/6564212960.html Placed in East TX and also in Dallas w


Great ad. Nice set of photos. One thought about wording . . .

You say, "I have 2 other PB Lamancha bucklings that will be available at the same time frame, as wethers".

You call them bucklings and wethers in the same sentence.  If I was looking and saw that ad, I would wonder if they were bucklings or wethers.  If I were writing that ad, I might word it like this:

I have 2 other Pure Bred Lamancha bucklings which I plan to wether, by the time they are ready to sell.

(When writing for the public, if you are going to use abbreviations, they should be defined at least once in the ad. i.e. Pure Bred (PB) or PB (Pure Bred) so there is no confusion, as to what is meant.)

In your ad, you could put it at the beginning of you text, where you say, "I have 2 pure bred Lamancha bucklings. . . "    You could say, "I have 2 pure bred (PB) Lamancha bucklings. . . "


----------



## Devonviolet

I was just looking at the pics on your ad.  Interesting . . . Dot's #2 boy looks exactly like our little Faith and Hope.    How can that be???  

Oh, I know . . . They have the same daddy!!!


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## Southern by choice

Can you really get $200 for an unregistered buck?   

The kids are cute. So now you have this big herd what do you plan on doing with all the goats?


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## Latestarter

Well, Lamanchas aren't really available here in any kind of quantity, so we'll see.  It's a starting point. The two closest Lamancha breeders want anywhere from $350 or I believe $450 and up for registered bucks. Quality costs, and a piece of paper doesn't put milk in the pail. I'm not really selling show animals... I'm trying to sell quality animals for folks who want homestead milk goats. I'll most likely accept $150 if it comes down to it...  

Big herd? really?  doesn't seem all that big to me... After I sell the kids I'll have 10 does, 1 buck, and a wether. That may drop to 9 does cause I think I'm going to sell Bang as a goat in milk. As for what I'm going to do with the herd... well, first and foremost, let them eat some of these pastures down. I'm getting tired of mowing them. Then, I guess I'll just enjoy watching them munch away while wandering around. It's kind of like the deer, I enjoy watching them. And the kids are a blast to go down and play with. 

The lady who contacted me yesterday about a wether just left and has paid cash, in full, in advance, for two. Very nice older lady. She bought the white one and has named him Henry. She also bought Bang's boy, the black one with 3 white socks and the white patch on one side. She will be back to get them around June 2nd. So, I need to go change the ad as I no longer have wethers available.


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## Mini Horses

Southern by choice said:


> The kids are cute. So now you have this big herd what do you plan on doing with all the goats?



Use as lawnmowers?   Does are being milked.   Isn't that enough?   Remember, LS is retired & just loving life.  Are you saying we must do more?   Man, I am in BIG trouble....


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## Mini Horses

SEE -- LS & I think alike!!  We were writing at the same time...

I have 11 mature does, 2 doelings that are 2 wks old, one buck and looking at a buckling tomorrow.  Have 3 does to kid in next couple weeks.   They eat, I milk, sell male kids.......we are good.

ETA --- I sell doelings, just not as soon.  Some are kept, bred, trained to milk, then sold in milk.


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## Bruce

Nice fast sale on those 2 Joe. Like the new avatar as well.


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## Latestarter

The little white kid in the avatar is the one now named Henry and destined to move about 40 miles south of here.


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## Latestarter

Mini... I don't feel like I've reached my "saturation point" on goat numbers yet. I'm serious... what I've got now just doesn't seem like that many to me.  I expect like you, at some point I'll sell doelings as well as bucks and wethers, and maybe does in milk down the road... Maybe at some point I'll sell pairs (doe in milk w/kid) or trios... 

So I didn't write up a business plan before doing all this... And I'm not in this to make a profit or make a living... shoot me.   The sale I just made basically pays for one month of hay and feed . Sale of the two bucklings at full asking price will cover another 3-4 months of hay and feed. If I sell Bang in milk, it won't be for less than $250. so there's another month and 1/2 of hay & feed. So I'll have 1/2 the year's feed bill paid for  Life is good! Now that I can let them out to graze/browse, they aren't eating as much hay either, so hopefully that bill will get cut in 1/2 or maybe even more.


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## Bruce

Get those fences done!


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## Latestarter

So I got a text from @Devonviolet (always good to hear from them) and they no longer have their wether boys. It turns out that they will be in need of a (large size) wether and since I have the boys, they wanted to know if I could save one as a wether for them. Of course I said I would! But, since I have 5 buck kids and one adult wether (CM) I started doing the math... Just sold 2 weather kids (thought it was going to be one but she decided 2 was better). I have the 2 kids I want to sell as herd sires. That leaves one kid left and I was planning to keep him to replace Chocolate Moose (CM)... He's the "frosted hair tips" buckling from April with three white hoof tips. Hmmm 

So I contacted DV and discussed the situation with them and as it turns out, an adult wether would work much better for them anyway!   So some time next week, CM is going to have new living arrangements over at DV's place  He really is a loving/friendly guy (even though he is often in trouble with me because he's so inquisitive) so this is better (for him) than me eating him, though I'd have had no problem doing so, and I'm sure he would have tasted just fine .  So they said they'll come over here to get him and I offered to do a grilled chicken meal for us while they're here. Not sure what date but I hope she reads this as Tuesday the 24th is a no-can-do as I have to be at my traffic hearing in Marshall that day for my photo ticket.

Now, I'm kind of hungry, and in the mood to eat out, but can't decide what I want to do... Thought about Golden Corral but don't want to drive an hour. Could do Chili's or Applebee's I guess. What I really have a craving for right now is a "real", thick, juicy, 1/2 pound cheese burger, cooked medium rare. Chili's has 1/2 pound burgers... I could do a take out Pizza... Or maybe the Chinese buffet... decisions, decisions...


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## Wehner Homestead

Tonight is one of those “can’t get full nights.” I’ve had supper and I’m still hungry for everything!


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## Baymule

You have some bodacious pastures! I have serious grass envy, LOL. When you get it goat fenced, your goats are going to be REAL happy. Are you going to fence the front pasture for them too?


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## Latestarter

Actually, the front pasture is just waiting for my son to arrive the 3rd week in June... I'm going to enclose that with basic pasture fencing and remove the old rusted out barbed wire and t-posts. The front pasture is for a few steers and a few sheep. They eat different parts of the plants from what I understand, so graze well together. I'll have at least 3 pastures out back to rotate the goats through and a big portion back there to rotate the steers and sheep through.  <--- all those mentioned plans are still plans.

So I ended up at Chili's. Had buffalo wings as an appetizer and a 1/2 pound cheese burger with bacon, lettuce and mayo. And of course the obligatory fries. I also splurged and had a beer. I do that about twice a year. Then came home and went in the jacuzzi. My knees, hips, and back are bothering me (what else is new). Just finished with that. I am so glad that it's working and available to me again.

So earlier while I was out with the goats, I noticed Mel mouthing something. So I walked into the back yard from the goat pasture to find a sloppy, baby bunny. Basically almost dead. So I took it from him ad walked outside to the big shed to put it under a corner, and if it survived, good enough. So I head back into the goat's area and he has something else he's playing with, so back I go and he has another baby bunny... about 1/2 as slobbered as the first I took from him. So I take this one too. But this time I fake leaving to watch him and see where he's coming up with these from. Sure enough he goes over and starts nosing around and I go over and there's a 3rd baby bunny that I got before he could. So I take #2 and #3 over to where I took the first one and let them go. The un-slobbered one moved off under the shed. I went back later and the 1st was dead and the 2nd was as close to dead as it could be. So I hope I saved at least one. they couldn't have been more than a few days old, so maybe none will survive without mom's milk.

The rabbit made her nest between the trees in the back yard next to the swing. How she managed that without getting eaten by Mel and how the babies lasted this long is astounding. I think the only reason he found them is because I weed whacked around that area this afternoon and must have disturbed the nest, allowing him to smell it.


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## Mike CHS

They don't pick the best sites for their nests.  We have one burrow right in the middle of the back yard two years in a row and this is in an area that gets mowed so I imagine they will get sucked up by the riding lawn mower.


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## Wehner Homestead

We had a shallow nest in our yard growing up. Mom set a lawn chair over it and let the grass grow up. Despite her efforts, one of the neighborhood cats found them. Ugh! 

(In case anyone noticed, yes, I grew up in town. My parents were the first generation to live off the farm. Spent a lot of time at my grandparents, 10 years of 4-H and kept my livestock at their house, even owned my own herd of cattle until I went to college that was kept there with my financial backing.)


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## Mini Horses

LS -- when you are retired and having fun, THAT is your "business plan".  As you know, from many years in the loan processing world, things can get out of hand.   For me, the cost of feed is the largest issue with my animals.  Grass for grazers is good most of the year.  Winter hay can be costly here, plus concentrates for the does.   I look at the sale income as you, how many months of feed it pays.    Different thought process.

So, now, I am looking at how many more outside mow or dig jobs I need to make all the tractor payments    Covered 1/3 of them in 2017....have those set-up for this year & can live with it.  More would be nice.  

I so look at cattle but, just not wanting to deal with them any more.   Find I don't eat as much beef now, although I do love a thick, juicy steak!!  Just cannot beat the taste of homegrown beef.


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## Latestarter

Dot evidently didn't let her boys feed last night. Boy was she full this morning. One side rock hard and the other not far off. Fell 1/2 a pint shy of a full gallon. The kids are getting fed... I'm guessing mostly by Bang, although she's looking mighty full as well. When I check her udder though, it's not hard, even though it sure looks full enough to burst. Maybe the kids are sleeping through the night & not eating?   They're goats... who knows. Long as the kids are growing and running/bouncing around, I guess it's all good! CC's baby is 4 days old this morning and she's catching up with the others. she's running around with them and jumping on the cinder blocks. She doesn't last as long as they do though and crashes a lot sooner for a nap. CC is being a really doting mom.

Made a kind of mistake last night and left all the windows open... 53° inside right now and 48° outside. Can we say Brrrrrrr? Slept like a baby though  Least I think I did... Woke up sooner than I really would have liked... Only supposed to get to ~67° today. Actually, doesn't look like we leave the 60s till next Tuesday, when we'll be back to mid 70s again. This is the weather I asked for! No need to run the heat or AC!


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## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> This is the weather I asked for!



Ask & ye shall receive?    Let me know if it works for the lottery!   Our weather is similar...coolish but, very nice.


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## Latestarter

I can tell you in all honesty Mini, that it does NOT work WRT to lottery... If it had/did, I'd have won many over the past 20 years plus.   I remember early in Power ball lottery history, I was stationed in Norfolk, VA. A sailor who was transferring from duty at the sub base in Connecticut, down to Norfolk, bought a ticket as he hit the road south. He won. It was a HUGE jackpot at the time... like 7.5 million dollars. Now the jackpot starts at what, 20 or 40 million? It ruined his Navy career, not because of him, but because of what the Navy did to him because of him becoming rich. He was the first active duty service person to win a lottery. He ended up paying/buying his way out of his contract. Windfall money can really raise hell with a person's life.   I'd be willing to risk it though 

So I guess I didn't sleep as long or well as I thought last night. After posting I was feeling really sleepy so sat in my recliner and the next thing I knew, it was after noon. Hauled out and got some fencing wrapped on end posts and hung another gate. Saying a chance for T-storms tomorrow and tomorrow night. Hope to go get another length of fence rolled out and stretched. If it does rain, I guess I'll haul my tractor off the ground and get the mower blades changed out instead. They need changed pretty bad and I need to have the mower working well as it's coming on that time of year.

Cooked a rib eye steak for dinner tonight on the grill. It was so good it made me want some sauteed onions and mushrooms, so when I finished the steak, I made those. Am eating them now


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## greybeard

Wehner Homestead said:


> Tonight is one of those “can’t get full nights.” I’ve had supper and I’m still hungry for everything!



Those kind of days, my dad would've told me "Boy, you need to be dewormed.."


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## Wehner Homestead

greybeard said:


> Those kind of days, my dad would've told me "Boy, you need to be dewormed.."


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## Baymule

We are supposed to get an inch or two of rain this evening. I'll gladly take two inches!


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## Baymule

It’s raining! Joe, looks like you’ve been getting rain for awhile. I weeded our the tomato trellis, so the rain can soak the soil good. Tomorrow we’ll cover it with cardboard, mulch, and I will plant the tomato plants.


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## Latestarter

Just started sprinkling here. Been cloudy right along. Thunder has been building for about a 1/2 hour. Not raining hard and most of the big stuff seems to be north of me. Kinda sucks cause I was rolling on fencing and didn't want to stop. Got the long section stretched and attached. Was working on wrapping the ends at the poles and had really hoped to get another gate hung today before the rain started. Oh well, there's always tomorrow. I'm thaaaaaaaat close to being able to let Mel and the goats roam   Done for today though.


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## greybeard

I shulda gave you a handfull of these so you could become  addicted to them like everyone else that ever tried them.....


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## CntryBoy777

We are suppose to get a couple of inches out of this go round thru tomorrow.
GB are those the gripples ya was referring to previously?


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## Latestarter

You know GB, the actual wrapping isn't the worst part. The worst part is cutting all the vertical stays and removing them from the horizontal wires that are being wrapped. I don't know if I could even use those without the gripple tool...  

So far have gotten 3/4" of rain. First part of the front line has passed through. Looks line another line is building to my west but seems to be moving SE, so may miss me. Looking at the sky, the clouds seem to be moving NW... <scratching head>...


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> You know GB, the actual wrapping isn't the worst part. The worst part is cutting all the vertical stays and removing them from the horizontal wires that are being wrapped. I don't know if I could even use those without the gripple tool...


Well, I don't know exactly how you are tensioning the wire. I do the gut stretch method..pull 2 sections together from a point somewhere away from the corner or end, so the ends are already wrapped and grippled on the anchor posts before I ever start to pull. 

Otherwise, I would attach the puller bar somewhere between the anchor post and the brace post and tension the wire with the comealong(s). Then wrap the wire on the anchor post using the Tee gripples. The little bit of slack that may exist between the puller bar and the end post (position a and b) is going to be nominal.


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## Latestarter

I realize I can save a bit of time (OK... more than a bit) if I don't cut out the vertical stays except the very end ones where I need bare wire to twist back onto itself. But I can't get the wire real tight that way and it looks sloppy.


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## greybeard

I don't staple to the post on the far left of your graphic until after everything is complete. Here's why, and it applies to net fence of all kinds and single strand wire of all kinds. 
If you pull from out on the end of the wire as shown in your graphic,then staple both posts good, when you release tension, the rest of the fence's tension can't distribute any looseness that is always present in the tie off. 
Tho I usually use an attachment point between the anchor post and the brace post, and end up with that attachment point about 1' away from the anchor post, it still leaves a little slack to deal with. By not stapling to the far left post until after tie off and tension is released, I'm assured the entire fence is the same tightness, from one anchor post all the way back to the anchor post on the  other end.
An alternative to that, is to staple both posts, and after tie off but before releasing tension, go to the brace post (far left post) , and use your fencing pliers and a hammer and loosen the staples on the brace post. Just drive the pointy end under the staple and lever it out enough to grab it with the parrot beak. On field fence, you may have to pull 'em all the way out so a vertical stay isn't hanging up on the staple, but with the staples out, any irregularity you see in the tie off (loose or uneven ties) will simply disappear when tension is released from your puller.   After tension is released from comealong or in your case, ratchet straps, you can re-install the staples you removed. 

Not a fan of pulling from the post you have pictured.


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## Latestarter

I was just finishing up typing a response and my (%^$*$%^) system did a complete reboot.   In case I haven't expressed my love of windows, let me do so now... on 2nd thought, better not.

I didn't finish my drawing and all my "H" braces are cross wired for stability. They aren't moving while being used as anchor points for stretching fence. I really tried to specifically set it up so I could use them as the anchor points for stretching.

I put the pull bar outside the fencing length being stretched so that the tension is equal throughout the entire length. Therefore, stapling to both "H" brace posts makes no difference in tension along the length. After I release the pull bar and cut the end of the fence, the only part not under tension is the 18-20 inches of fence outside the staples, and I wrap that pretty tightly around the end posts & tie it off back on itself. So even if the staples loosen, the fence isn't going to "adjust" or move back very much at all. If I use the pull bar between the "H" brace, then yes, the fence will be under tension to the left and loose to the right of the pull bar. So after wrapping, the fence is absolutely going to adjust back to the left to even out the tension when the pull bar is released. And there is going to be an inordinate amount of slop needing to be absorbed if done this way, as there's no way you can achieve anywhere near the tension the pull bar is achieving, when wrapping the loose fence to the end post.

When I was first getting started, I followed the steps and advice of the fencing pros (Red Brand etc.) online at YouTube and pulled, then one at a time, cut the wires and wrapped/attached them to the end post, starting with the center wire and moving out to the top and bottom wires. I was not impressed and found it to be a royal PITA & back, not to mention very labor/time intensive. Now, all that being said, it's probably because I''m working with woven wire fencing. I'm sure that process works like a champ with slick wire or barbed wire. But with 13 strands of wire, it sucks. So I formulated my own process/procedure that seems to work pretty well. I'm not doing any runs longer than the roll of fencing (330'). If I was, I'd probably do a gut pull and attach at both ends then pull toward the middle. I have my posts all planted, including the T posts. I find it very difficult to pound T-posts with the fencing already in place as the pound bar is always getting hung up on the fencing, and there's no real room to work with the fencing already standing in place. 

I roll out my fencing along the section to be fenced. I leave about 2-3 feet of extra fence at the start end and cut the fencing at or just beyond the end of the run. I then attach the pull bar to the that end and set up the tightening straps. I then go back to the start end & stand the fence up and staple it firmly to the starting end post leaving enough overhang to later wrap the end post with. I then walk the length of fencing, standing it up and "hanging" it on the top of T posts about every 30-40 feet or sometimes I'll lift it up and put the top wire over the T post so the post goes through the top fencing hole. When I get to the end, I stand up the puller bar and start stretching. Every couple of inches stretched, I walk the length to make sure there are no hang ups and adjust as necessary. As it gets tighter, I remove it from the tops of the T posts and lift the top wire back over the top on the ones I'd done that way. When I've got it stretched taught, I staple it firmly to BOTH "H" brace posts at the puller end. I then remove the puller bar and cut the excess fencing off to leave enough to wrap the end post with. I then go back and firmly staple the inside "H" brace post at the starting end. 

Then I walk the fence applying the top 3 clips to each T post (wire #1/5/9). If there's a dip I'll do the posts on either side of the dip first, then pull the fencing down and clip it to the T post in the dip area. I then cut out/remove the vertical stays and wrap the fence ends to the end posts. The last step I do is to apply the bottom clips at each T post (wire #13). Basically because I'm old and stiff and it's painful to constantly be getting up and down to apply those, so when I'm done with them, I know I'm done fencing for a few days or longer.


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## greybeard

1. If you pull it tight as it should be, the fence will stand itself up. It has to. All you have to do is pull the wire over as close as possible to the tee posts, tho it will pull over on it's own as well on most ground if there isn't brush or rocks in the way.

2. When you tightly staple the wire to either of the brace posts, you are effectively making those posts the anchor posts. Their sole purpose is to absorb 1/2 the strain of the wire thru the horizontal brace. I staple them, but loosely, so all the tension is on the anchor posts.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I'm thaaaaaaaat close to being able to let Mel and the goats roam


 I bet they will all like that a BUNCH!


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## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> I bet they will all like that a BUNCH!



I wish I had pictures of the first time I turned my sheep into the big 6 acre paddock.  They were literally jumping straight up as they ran into it.


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## CntryBoy777

The goats did the same here when the new area opened and they could get out and about without a lead on and had room to run and stretch.....


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## Latestarter

The goats are getting accustomed to grazing. After they have their breakfast of pellets, they feed the kids then stand at the gate waiting to be let out. Right now I attach a 20' lead to some of their collars (the flighty ones) so I can catch them if I have to. CB & Dot can be let out without a lead as they are not skittish and will let me walk up to them and pet them or take them by the collar and lead them where I want them. CC is OK for the most part but sometimes gets scared and runs back to the gate or runs to go check on her kid. Bang and April still need a lead attached. I let Moose out on a lead with April at the other end and they were like a danged boomerang spinning in circles getting everyone all tangled up. A leaf would move from the wind and Moose would spook, which would cause April to spook, and the two of them running would make the rest all run as well because they thought something was wrong.   He'll (Moose) be leaving to join the Devonviolet crew here later this week.

I let RJ out and he was a trip. He wandered around like he was lost, not knowing what he was supposed to do. I pulled down some willow branches, oak branches, and sweet gum so he could get a taste. I think that and him seeing the others go on a feeding frenzy when I did that helped him to finally figure it all out. For as big as he is, he sure doesn't appear to eat very much... I'd say right now he has to be closing in on 180-200 pounds. He's a heavy, powerful goat. I gauge his weight from the amount of pain in my feet when he stands on one    Same with Mel... He doesn't eat very much at all and holds steady at 135-140. Luckily, both are well mannered and easily handled.

I'm loving these kids!  They are all so friendly and come running over to me to be picked up and held. They all jump up on me and their little hooves are getting rather sharp, and my laundry basket is getting rather full. Their hooves are generally covered in wet poop and I end up wearing a lot of it.   Dot's boys are growing so fast and getting BIG! I don't think they're gonna love me as much after tomorrow... it's 1st CD&T shot time for all but the newest kid, that is just a week old.

I went out to TSC today to get some feed and had received a 10% off total purchase coupon in my Email. Last time I didn't need to bring it as they had one at the register and just scanned that one. This time I get all wrung up with 7 bags of feed, a bag of dog food, 2 new feed buckets and a vial of goat CD&T and she says I need to have the coupon Then she says I can call it up on my phone... I left the damned phone at home on the charger!   So I have to run back home, print out the coupon then run back to TSC. The coupon expires the end of the month and I don't expect to need anything else between now and then.


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## Baymule

I am supremely happy for you. You started this journey from Colorado, looking for your home in Texas. You found this place, sold your old home, moved and are making this your home. I smile when I read about your goats and kids antics. You are enjoying yourself so much. 

when we moved, my sister showed up with a sign that is hanging over our TV. It says,  It just doesn't get any better that this. And you know what? That sign is right.


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> I wish I had pictures of the first time I turned my sheep into the big 6 acre paddock.  They were literally jumping straight up as they ran into it.


You're lucky that's all they do. My cows, will run and jump a bit , then settle down and walk the fences, testing every foot of it and every gate.


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## Mike CHS

greybeard said:


> You're lucky that's all they do. My cows, will run and jump a bit , then settle down and walk the fences, testing every foot of it and every gate.



That is one of many reasons we have sheep instead of cattle


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## greybeard

Watch this video and you'll see what I mean about a properly tensioned fence will 'stand itself up'. The fence was already standing up just from being pulled tight when it was 15' up in the air, but you can imagine how tight it is by the time he got it pulled down. That's how tight a net or even 5 strands of single stranded wire should be.
FFS posts some very good vids, and is the same guy I buy my Gripple stuff from.






Another one with lots of tips on stripping off the vertical stays, tie offs, a gut stretch and proper tensioning:


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## Bruce

If it is that tight that high up, I can't imagine how tight it is pulled down to the ground.


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## Latestarter

Because of course "the grass is always greener"... My goats immediately notice if I've left the side entry gate open and if so, they head right for it.   It's no problem as they're learning very fast that I'll lead them to the best greenery. Mel alerted me to a dog running down through the woods next door while they were outside the new fencing. As soon as he lit off, the goats high tailed it back through the gate to the pen and wanted in. Good Mel!   Good goats! 

Have to go to police hearing tomorrow afternoon in Marshall for the photo ticket I got for running a red light.   Says right on the ticket that pictures and images can not be used as evidence.  Is not video a sequential set of images flashed at a frame rate to impart motion? And of course photos are obviously pictures... who knows... guess I'll find out tomorrow, right?

Thought this had been posted last night, but saw it here all grayed out just now... SO, the ticket was dismissed. Nothing I said or did... I guess the hearing officer had an emergency and couldn't be there. No matter to me as it's the end result I was looking for and achieved. Saved $125 straight up plus an additional $25 if I hadn't won the debate.

I wonder if that fence tension would pull those T posts out of the ground and shoot them straight up like arrows from a bow...   My fencing would have stood up by itself, but I thought it'd be better to give it an assist. It's pretty taught, but I doubt it's as tight as that in the video. I don't have a skid steer or forks to pull it up on hills or down in valleys.


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## Bruce

The guy said there was an 8' deadman attached to the lowest post. He pointed to it, it is the pipe angled down into the ground and welded to the post pipe. I have NO IDEA how one would get an 8' pipe 95% into the ground. Clearly doesn't have any ledge. And even then I would think the tension on the field fence would slowly pull it up.


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## greybeard

He has a post driver, probably more than one. The one I've seen is mounted on a tracked Yanmar atv. Cable hung, but hyd operated, picks up a big weight and drops it on the steel post.  He drives a rock spike first to break the ledge, extracts the spike, swings it out of the way  then drives the steel posts thru rocks, ledges and anything else..does the same with big wooden posts.
Different owner/operator, but the spike is hardened on the end.
Skip to time 8:30 minutes.





He builds more fence in a month than all of us at BYH will in several years.


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## Latestarter

Dang... sure wish I could afford $50,000 worth of hydraulic fencing gear (including the tractor to power it)... Then wish I had another $50K for the other nice tractor toys like hay making equipment, backhoe, etc...


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## greybeard

Me too.
But, as I've stated several times.What they do on big farms and ranches can almost always be downsized to work on small farms. I have some 8' tee posts in the fence between me and my brother's place, driven down so less than 5' is above ground  that are in a low area that stays damp 9 months out of the year and those 8 footers are always being pulled up by the wire tension. I drive them back down and in a few weeks, they're right back up, allowing calves to get under the bottom wire. Now I know how to prevent it. Get a 4, 5 or 6 ft tee post, drive it in at an angle right next to each of the 8 ft posts along that draw, finish up with a sledge hammer if I have to to keep it from sticking out too far and then either haul my gas powered welder down and weld the 2 together or take some 12.5 ga HT wire and firmly lash the 2 together-- problem solved. Just from watching a video of someone smarter than I am. I'm old but I try to learn something new every day.


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## Mike CHS

That is some impressive gear


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## Latestarter

So I was feeling un-farmerly yesterday... started checking CL for laying hens for sale. Next town over a person had some red sex links (or production reds?) for $12 each at a year old. Went and got 3 this morning. Gonna be some really expensive eggs for the rest of the year... $36 for the hens, ~$130 for the animal carry crate to transport them, bag of feed, oyster shell, grit, pine flakes, a new waterer and new feeder. Had to basically start over from scratch. Set them up indoors over in the out building. Clipped their wings to keep them inside the enclosure within the bldg. Using pine flakes over a tarp with 4' welded wire enclosure.  We'll see how they adjust. Mel freaked when he smelled them on me. Couldn't get enough sniffs in LOL. They aren't very hefty birds but well cared for. We'll see how long till first eggs.


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## Mike CHS

$12 is a bargain for year old chicks. I don't remember the amount but Teresa kept track of what it cost to feed chicks until they are laying age and it was a  surprisingly large amount.  I mentioned on another thread that all new hens that come to our farm are going to be from 4H. On average they sell at auction for roughly $20 each which coincidentally is what the kids pay the organization for the chicks initially.

Teresa is selling between 9 & 10 dozen eggs a week which more than pays for the feed and we get ours free but we want to get another 10 or so layers to meet the demand.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I don't remember the amount but Teresa kept track of what it cost to feed chicks until they are laying age and it was a surprisingly large amount.


That just doesn't add up. Meyer has a chart that says a 16 week old layer will have eaten < 11.5 pounds of feed to that age. It would have eaten 1.09 pounds of feed that last week. So let's say they start laying at 22 weeks and eat 1.5 pounds/week (which I expect is high since they don't get a lot bigger in that time) on average those next 6 weeks. That is less than 21 pounds total. I just paid $14 for 50 pounds of feed (up from $12.50 a month ago. That means the girl would have eaten less than $6 in feed to 22 weeks. AND that assumes they get all their feed from a bag. My girls eat a lot less in the summer so I would expect them to have eaten less than $6 worth.



Latestarter said:


> Dang... sure wish I could afford $50,000 worth of hydraulic fencing gear (including the tractor to power it)... Then wish I had another $50K for the other nice tractor toys like hay making equipment, backhoe, etc...


You could buy all that stuff then hire yourself out to make use of all of them.  Of course you would have no time to use it on your own property.


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## Latestarter

Since it has been brought to my attention (frequently ) that I am often remiss in posting pictures while routinely letting others know that they are a "requirement"... Here are some I just came in from taking. Adults, L to R front: April, CC, Moose, Rear: Bang, Dot, CB.



 

Here's Mel following the herd. L to R: CB, Mel, Dot, Bang, Moose, RJ, April, CC



Mel helping Henry (sold) who scraped the scab off one of his horn buds. The other sold wether is right next to Henry. Champagne back left and one of Dot's boys back right.


 
The 5 adult girls slowly making their way back to the pen for water and kid feeding. L to R: Dot, CB, CC, Bang, April




Who says I'm too short to reach the hay? This is DS (Double Stuff) up in the hay feeder pawing for all she's worth. She's a great little girl and very stocky. She's not the only one who I've seen up in the feeder. You can see the legs of Champagne trying to climb in on the other side.




So the 2018 NFL draft starts in about 1/2 hour.  The Cleveland Browns have the 1st and 4th pick and have been searching for over 20 years for a franchise quarterback. They traded down the last couple of years and missed out on some really good ones. Hope they don't "Browns it up" again this time around.Their W/L record for the past 2 years is 1 & 31, zero & 16 last year.


----------



## farmerjan

Around here $12 for year old hens is high.  Most sell started pullets for $10 to $15 each at about 20 weeks...6 months or less.  By the time they are year old they are halfway to their first moult.  We sell cull hens for about $6 to $8  each at 2-3 years old and they sell well for the different ethnic groups that come to the poultry sales for soup and stew birds.  The last 2 years the ones the 4-her's raised sold for about $15. ea.  They get anywhere from 10 to 25 chicks to raise and have to "give back 3 for every ten they get for "seed money" for the 4-H to buy more for the next year for the kids that want to raise them.  The kids get to keep the rest of them or sell them and keep the money. It teaches responsibility, and they get to make a little money for their labor if they sell them.  A couple of the kids have gone on to become egg sellers and done pretty well.

Cannot imagine spending that kind of money to get a crate to transport them home.  We use cardboard boxes.  It is the safest way to transport hens with air holes cut in the sides.  the darker interior also is more calming to the birds.  We transport many of our show birds that way.  They are less likely to break tail and wing feathers against the cardboard, they don't need so much room to turn around and try to get out.  They are also disposable when there is any concern about lice or other poultry diseases.  Animals do not need alot of moving room during transport.  It allows them to get nerved up in many cases.  They need to be able to stand, sit or lay down.  If long trips then being able to turn around or taking them out for some exercise.  But they don't need to be moving all around and back and forth.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Since it has been brought to my attention (frequently ) that I am often remiss in posting pictures while routinely letting others know that they are a "requirement"


Who would do such a thing???? 



Love the pictures!!!


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## Mike CHS

I'm not sure there is a design that can completely keep the young ones out of the hay racks.  Even my lambs can jump up on top of a 6' round bale to play king of the hill.


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## CntryBoy777

I must say....Mel sure puts some perspective on the issue...now doesn't he?.....things are looking better all the time Joe!!.....I was wondering when ya was gonna get some yard birds.....


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## Baymule

Look at those happy goats out on pasture!!! That looks so wonderful, your fence looks good and the goats are enjoying themselves. Mel is acting like he knows he is top dog around there. we won't tell Mel he is the only dog......LOL

I am happy for you that you got some hens. Let the chicken math begin.......


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## Wehner Homestead

I like the pics! I find it neat how different each of your LM are in color overall. Can’t wait to see what we get around here! 

Congrats on adding chickens!! You’ll have eggs before you know it. Better get some pigs so you’ll have bacon, ham, and sausage to eat with all those eggs!


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## goats&moregoats

Love the pics!, Thanks for sharing, beautiful animals.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> So the 2018 NFL draft starts in about 1/2 hour.


The Browns did good.  Ward (CB) should do good in the NFL and Mayfield even better. 
Poor Houston..paid a steep price to get rid of Oswieller and still won't have a qb unless their guy regains health.

(Hauled lots of chickens home in tied up tow sacks with a hole cut in the sack for them to stick their heads out of.)


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## Latestarter

Thanks everyone.   The goats are so much happier now and today I only put a lead on Moose cause he's just so damned flighty. I've been attaching him to RJ, but Moose is such a fricken idiot and just freaks himself out and sprints off getting the two of them tangled in any vertical structure that's available. RJ knows I'm the big buck so wants to hang around with me and follows me like a puppy when Moose isn't towing him off into the next tangle. So... that being said, When I got home this afternoon I went ahead and just let the whole batch of them loose. Opened the cattle panel gate and propped it open with a hay fork. There's a T post in the center so it holds it virtually closed. I bent it open then stuck the fork in to hold it there. Was pretty cool having 17 animals plus Mel out roaming in the pasture. Was NOT cool trying to get them all rounded back up into the pen for dinner.  Mel was inside the pen and didn't want to come out. The goats were all out of the pen and didn't want to go in. The adults weren't that big an issue, it was the 10 kids all going in different directions at warp speed... And they don't quite understand gate openings as opposed to holes in the cattle panel that they can stick their heads through... so as the adults moved deeper inside, the kids moved further away from the gate on the outside... So I'd try to circle and move the kids back toward the gate and that would cause the adults to move back towards the gate and want to come back out. 

Those little kids sounded like a herd of bison running here and there.  I have a folding camp chair set up about 1/2 way down the pasture in the shade of that big old oak tree (near my compost pile). I sit there in the shade and just watch them play for a while. They were bouncing off the adults and running when the adults would try to chase them away. Teasing Mel to the point that Mel actually took off running after the group at one point. Had to yell at him for that. It's OK for them to run but NOT OK for Mel to run chasing them. I now need to really get him a big playmate/workmate/partner. A dog big enough for him to get (and give) a good workout. Been looking a little on CL to see what's available.

As for the crate, I figured it would be handy to have one available "just in case" for future things. It was only 50 bucks and should last a long time. Can put a couple of piglets in it to bring home  That way I shouldn't lose any.  The hens did well in it. I had them inside the truck on the back seat. They were very quiet and calm the whole trip. They are still calm and I've already gotten my first 2 eggs today. I figure that's a good sign since I just got them yesterday.

So Devonviolet and her DH were planning to join me for late lunch/dinner today but she's been down with a nasty cold, so they had to ask for a rain check. I told them absolutely not! Just kidding...  They were going to bring me the kidding box and disbudding iron for my last kid and a case of 6, 1/2 gallon mason jars for milk. I was going to make them grilled chicken breasts with salad and give them 4 gallons of goat milk to bring home. Since they couldn't make it,  she offered her DH to meet me 1/2 way to do an exchange, but it didn't make sense for both of us to drive so I just went over there and we swapped the stuff at their place. I have all my empty quart jars and the new 1/2 gallon jars in the dishwasher getting ready to be used starting tomorrow.  Those larger jars will take up much less space as they are tall.

I'm pretty impressed overall with what the Browns have accomplished this draft so far. Now... they have built a solid framework for winning on O and D... BUT... I'm not "sold" on Hue Jackson's ability to mold it successfully. Time will tell. I'd sure like to see them have a winning season at the least this fall. A bunch of teams have really beefed up and the historically power elite teams are going to have some real challenges maintaining their lofty status... Slowly but steadily, the NFL is achieving parity among the teams, which is what they've been striving for for years. I'm thinking that the Jets and Bills might be close to being able to challenge my Pats. Not so much the Dolphins as I don't think they are really locked in on what type team they want to be.

I feel that Deshaun Watson will be back and better than before. If he's only "as good" as he started last season, Houston will be a pretty decent team. They should be back to full strength on D as well with Watt (getting older, lots of past injuries, and slowing down, but still powerful) & Merciless back. The 4 teams that really needed franchise QBs got theirs and I think all of them got the right QB for their squads. Should be a good NFL season this year. 

I've decided to NOT renew my NFL Sunday ticket on DirecTV this year... Just too expensive at almost $400. Might be eliminating DirecTV as well as it's running almost $140/month to get all the channels I like to watch. Guess I can go hang out in the sports bar(s) at game time. There are TV providers now that are offering limited channel selection where you pick and choose but they don't offer a lot of the channels that the big providers do, and to get the channels I would want, would work out to almost as much as what I'm paying now. So what's the difference? I'm paying for 200+ channels including regular as well as HD and out of them all I think there's maybe a dozen that I routinely watch. But of that dozen, they are broken down into 4 or 5 different "tiers" that must be purchased in order to watch them all.  I'm forced to pay for the crap in order to watch the stuff I want to watch. <sigh> 

You know, it's almost like subsidized TV programming... I'm paying (forced to pay) to support all these sh*t channels and keep them on the air so "others" can watch them. When I have no interest in them whatsoever. If I could simply delete them from my TV lineup and not pay for them, I'd be a VERY happy TV viewer! I'd have no problem paying a fair price for ONLY the channels that I want to watch. Would also save a lot of wasted channel surfing time.


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## greybeard

Learn Spanish and you'll get a lot more bang for your paid TV buck$.


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## Mike CHS

We put up an antenna mast when we moved here and have found we don't miss cable or the $ spent.  We don't have the variety of things but we spend so much time inside now that we haven't missed it.  GB has a good point though, as we have several Spanish speaking stations that I can't watch.


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## greybeard

*TELEMUNDO!!!*


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## Wehner Homestead




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## Bruce

Looks to be a good thing I don't give a rat's patootie about professional sports


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## Mini Horses

LS -- love your goats on pasture!!!    You will love less $$ at the hay & feed stores.   My grass is just getting into grow mode after all our "winter won't leave" weather.   Some areas are heavy & strong now.    I have taken my goats to various pastures by walking them there -- Pied Piper -- now I can open the gate to my yard and they graze.  When I head to their pen and feeder, they race me there, winning -- and the kids romp along with them.  Try banging on the feed pans and see if it works. 

Mel (huge and awesome!) seems to feel some inclination to tend the goats.  You may lose your house mate.  

Chickens, yah!  If you eat the eggs.  For self, one hen would do and I'd still give some away.  Need to make me eat more since they are "here & free".   You used to have chickens at your old place I seem to remember -- with awesome, expansive coops. 

Had to milk one of my does last night as she is an overproducer and the twins were NOT eating enough.   So I will milk 1X a day until weaning.   Yep, tummies full.  They both like the same side Other needs draining.  Sometimes milking helps them to use both.  Trips last night were last kids for this year.  One looks like your Double Stuff.  Mine has big white top of head and face front --can't see your does.  Oh, mine is doe also  & a bro & sis came with her     Now at 5 doe/4 buck kids.



Mike CHS said:


> Teresa is selling between 9 & 10 dozen eggs a week which more than pays for the feed and we get ours free but we want to get another 10 or so layers to meet the demand.



Same here.  Eggs pay for their feed, sometime for others, too. and my DD & DS get "free eggs" -- I also trade eggs for figs.   Haven't bought fertilizer in YEARS.   Still have to do some occasional fill back in areas they like to scratch out.  No biggie.




Bruce said:


> I don't give a rat's patootie about professional sports



Me either.   I haven't had cable/satellite TV in over 25 years.  It's ok.    I still use that box the gov't "gave" us about 10 yrs ago    I get all I need for channels..  Not a lot of TV watching here.   Speaking of TVs...mine is 15 years old.  Running well.


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## Latestarter

Congrats on the final set of kids Mini. I can't bang on the feed pans as they are rubber  I normally yell "Goats, goats, goats!" and they come expecting treats. They line up at the fence and stick their heads through the cattle panel expecting me to drop a line of froot loops and honey nut cheerios  They do love their cereal. Dot is the only doe I milk. Sometimes it's one side, sometimes both, sometimes not at all. It just depends on whether she's let the kids drink or not. Sometimes I see her feeding doubles but mostly it's one at a time and they prefer one side over the other. If she's got a hard/full udder on one side in the morning I'll milk out the full side and maybe a bit of the other just to keep her more or less even. If both sides are full I milk her out completely. If both sides are soft, I leave her be till evening and check again then.

Mel absolutely wants to be in the pasture with me and the goats. He races me to the gate and as soon as I open it, he's through and out into the pasture. He really likes the kids. But when I leave the pasture, he's all about following me back up to the house. He stays outside when I'm outside or away. I think he's becoming more "goat oriented" as time goes by. Gonna take a little time and easing him into it. He comes from good LGD stock and was raised with the goats up till I picked him up, so he remembers.

So today I rigged up a couple of pulleys and used them to lift the front of the lawn tractor to change the blades. Worked pretty good. One pulley attached to a roof beam, the other attached to the front bump bar of the tractor. Still made sure to not put any of my main body under the tractor while working... just my arms and hands. Lot cheaper than the 24" tractor lift they want $170 for... Then got about 2/3rds of the front pasture mowed. Will be back to mowing again tomorrow. The old blades were shot.

Had a boneless, skinless chicken breast marinating in Italian dressing since yesterday. So I decided I'd grill it and make a small amount of spaghetti and open/use some of the last of my home made sauce to make chicken parmesan for dinner. Got the chicken on the grill, the pasta boiling, the sauce in the microwave to warm it up a bit, went to the fridge to get the mozzarella and  No mozz! I forgot I used the last of it making the lasagna.   So I had grilled chicken and pasta with sauce and parmesan/romano mix cheese sprinkled on top. Just wasn't the same and not what I'd anticipated having for dinner.   Oh well, it filled the empty spot.


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## Mini Horses

Dinner still sounds good -- even without the cheese.  But, cheese does add so much!!   I'm an eggplant parm lover.

Since I'm back to milking, need to make cheese.  I think I am going to run this 1/2 gal jug of milk thru my separator for cream.   Just got the thing a couple weeks ago and want to give it a whirl.


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## Latestarter

Wait... you got it a "couple of weeks ago" and still haven't fired it up?    What's wrong with you girl?!   Get that thing spinnin' you out some cream!


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## Mini Horses

Had no milk to spin out.   Just started to milk the lopsided one, now another is having same issues, so will top her off tonight for balance. 

Darned kids!!  They always want the same toy, candy, cookie and tit.      Really??  Waiting in line?  There's another faucet!!!!!    Oddly the two mini nubs do NOT have this problem.  Both of their twins use both sides.   The big girls have BIG teats....seems an issues for first few days.


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## Latestarter

New blades on the mower make a world of difference. However, it STILL takes 3 days to get this whole place mowed.  Finished the front pasture today and got about 1/2 of the back done outside the goat area. Tomorrow I hope to get the rest finished. Still need to do the driveway and swale out at the street also.

Looks like "summer" weather has arrived... Day time 80s and nights up around 70. Gonna need to run the AC. Plan to open the house up tonight though.





I'm thinking now that Mel is out with the goats he's been getting poison ivy/oak oil on his coat. The insides of my forearms are starting to break out in ivy blisters and the only place I can think I got it is from rubbing on Mel.


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## Mike CHS

Poison Ivy does a job on me also.


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## Baymule

Your dinner still sounds good. We had patty melts on rye bread. For the poison ivy/oak mix up some Clorox water and rinse your arms with it. Let it air dry. It will dry up the blisters and kill the insane itch.


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## greybeard

You sure need something bigger/faster to mow with.
Even an old 8n Ford tractor would do everything you need done and with rear forks can handle small round bales if you go that route.


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Since it has been brought to my attention (frequently ) that I am often remiss in posting pictures while routinely letting others know that they are a "requirement"...





Bruce said:


> Who would do such a thing????
> 
> 
> 
> Love the pictures!!!



Hmmmm I wonder who did that????


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## Wehner Homestead

X2


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## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Hmmmm I wonder who did that????




You have milk now Joe, you can make your own mozzarella!!


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## Latestarter

By the time I got back from the VA doc appt earlier in the week, the gas tank was down to less than 1/8th. Didn't feel like stopping so came straight home. Today, rain and all, decided I needed to get gas. Also, I've been out of coffee creamer for 2 days and that was a serious contributing factor. Last month when I went shopping I bought a couple packages of lunch meat...  It seems I've now become spoiled and have to have actual deli sliced lunch meat. That pre packaged crap is... well... crap. Mel ate it, but I don't think he cares about taste as much as I do. Kinda like those individual wrapped processed "cheese food product" slices...  Hafta have deli sliced white American cheese, or whatever other flavor is wanted.

So, that being said, I have had (for over a month) a craving for a roast beef with onion and mayo sub. I like my roast beef VERY rare however, and it's difficult to find it less than medium... I decided to just deal and bought 1/2 pound, thinly sliced, and am presently enjoying (very much) a roast beef and smoked turkey sub with mayo and sliced onions. Man... All I can say is I waited too long. The beef would have been better had it been bloodier, but right now it is really satisfying the craving.   I have yellow onions but they are very white and sweet vice strong. They really compliment the flavor of the roast beef. And even though it isn't rare, it isn't "dried out" over cooked... More of a just past med rare to med.

Before I left, I was out with the goats and Bang was being her usual bitch self. She lined up and slammed CC broadside with no warning and with absolutely no justification. CC was just standing there munching on some leaves and Bang got a running start at her. I was pissed! So I chased her back into the pen and locked her in and left the others out to graze/browse while I went to the store. Soon as her kids are weaned, she's up for sale as a doe in milk. When she's not with the herd, the whole herd dynamic is so much different and calmer.

So When I got back I went down and let Mel run back up to the back porch where he was out of the rain, and opened the pen so all goats have free access in/out. The goats were out munching and apparently they aren't quite as allergic to falling moisture as they'd love for us to believe. Even having them out in the new pasture from after morning pellets to before dinner pellets, I'm going to have to mow it after it dries out, hopefully this weekend. They have done a rather fine job of stripping all foliage from all plants in each "clump" of trees, to their head height and a bit higher. I can now see through the trees to whatever is beyond them.  So, maybe I'll start on the next 2 pastures before I worry about replacing the existing yard boundary fencing (rusted welded wire). That way they'll have 2 more pastures I can rotate them into and through, and each have lots of brush, vines, etc, for them to enjoy.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Also, I've been out of coffee creamer for 2 days and that was a serious contributing factor.


You have goats you make your own cream!!! Unless you are talking about the powdered "coffee creamer"  In which case I suggest you switch post haste to REAL cream from YOUR goats.


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## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> You have goats you make your own cream!!! Unless you are talking about the powdered "coffee creamer"  In which case I suggest you switch post haste to REAL cream from YOUR goats.


I like your thinking on that @Bruce !


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## Baymule

It rained all day here too. The sheep ran to the hay bale, stuffed themselves and ran back to their barn. LOL Seems that they have been talking to goats.


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## Latestarter

I was using the goats milk in my tea. I don't have access to cream from the goats as I don't have a separator (like Devonviolet and Mini Horses). Goats milk is naturally homogenized, unlike cows milk which easily separates. If it sits long enough, a little cream will separate out and float to the top, but generally it's not a thick enough band to even scoop off.   I've been using International Delight French Vanilla creamer for many years and now, anything else just isn't quite as palatable. I've tried the generics and lesser brand named products and they don't measure up flavor wise. I've even dosed my drink with real milk & vanilla extract (real - not artificial) But even that doesn't taste as good & would get pretty expensive pretty quick.

Kinda strange complaining about fake meat and cheese and then wanting/needing fake creamer...   It's a Nestle's product (I think), maybe they lace it with some kind of addictive substance (the vanilla? sugar? real cream?) to build and keep clientele? I don't think or consider it nearly to the level of some folks addiction to starbucks... just sayin...  If I had to do without it, I guess I could. But, why do without if I don't really have to?

Really need to mow the goat pasture but we got right at 2" of rain from this latest front and I had my usual cross property streams. It's gonna take several days for it to dry out enough to be mowed.

I know we've got some Ohio folks in here somewhere... Which one of you won the Megamillions?


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## Bruce

Then along with a tractor and associated implements, you need a separator!


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> It's a Nestle's product (I think), maybe they lace it with some kind of addictive substance (the vanilla? sugar? real cream?)


I tr not to ever dilute my coffee with anything but a little bit of sweetener and don't drink hot tea, but I doubt it's 'real cream' since it's a non-dairy creamer..


> French *Vanilla*. International Delight. NON-*DAIRY* PRODUCT INGREDIENTS: WATER,*CANE SUGAR*, PALM OIL, CONTAINS 2% OR LESS OF EACH OF THE FOLLOWING:*SODIUM CASEINATE** (A *MILK* DERIVATIVE), *DIPOTASSIUM PHOSPHATE*, NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL FLAVORS, *MONO AND DIGLYCERIDES*, *SODIUM STEAROYL LACTYLATE*, *CARRAGEENAN*, *SALT*.


I doubt sny of the following are habit forming..so it must be in the 'natural and artificial flavors'.
Sodium caseinate is very basically, milk protein and salt.
Carrageenan is seaweed...no nutritional value but is a thickener.

Dipotassium Phoshate in this instance, is used to prevent caking--to keep the particles separated.
The mono and diglycerides are fatty acid/glycerol  chain. Used as an emulsifier to make water and the oils in the creamer actually mix. 
 SODIUM STEAROYL LACTYLATE--another emulsifier and a shelf life extender.

In very rare instances I use a creamer of any kind (usually at a restaurant with really crappy coffee)  I use real  half & half.


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## Bruce

I don't know, I read all those things and think "needs heavy cream"  I put a bit in my coffee, don't use sugar unless it is bad coffee. I could use half and half but mostly I only drink a cup of coffee on Sunday mornings and a small container of super pasteurized heavy cream lasts longer in the refrigerator.

Just read in the paper that our congressional delegation is trying to get the FDA to get its head out of its butt. They are going to require notices on PURE maple syrup and PURE honey that say "contains added sugar". 

WTF??? It IS sugar, they didn't ADD anything to it. The only thing they added sugar to was the empty container. I wonder if people who make granulated sugar from cane or sugar beets will have the same requirement.


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## RollingAcres

LS if you get some French goats and feed them vanilla you might get French Vanilla goat milk from them


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## Mini Horses

Good one!   BUT they won't add all the artificial stuff that gives the taste LS likes.

Lamanchas have decent cream, so should be fine for most who just want creamy milk.  It's the SUGARS in the mix that most want.  I'm doing a demo for Nestle's creamers next Sat, I will once again be AMAZED at just how little coffee some want with that stuff.    AND will bring lots of it home -- for DD.

I drink coffee straight up...if it's bad tasting (quick stop stuff)  then I may add half&half.   Hot tea, I like cream & a touch of real sugar.   The cream in my frig right now is pure goat.   But I truly didn't get the separator for the cream only...I like butter!   I'm sure Devonviolet would run some thru for him if he wanted just real cream!

Speaking of cream -- I need to go milk out a doe.  Twins and she STILL has to be milked.  The one with trips I have to top off about every 36 hrs.   I'll be rolling in milk when I wean kids....uh, and cream and butter...and cheese.  Can't wait!


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## Mini Horses

Here's why I needed a separator......to use more product

She's nursing twins ...





She's nursing trips...





I have some heavy producers here.  Kids have been with them 24/7.


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## frustratedearthmother

Holy Cannolli!


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## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> AND will bring lots of it home -- for DD.


Save some to send to your buddy @Latestarter


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## Mini Horses

LOL  Bruce, he could have it all --- BUT the trip would cost more than "buy & deliver" locally.


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## Mike CHS

I'm not sure how the 3rd one from the right can even walk


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## Latestarter

That there is a couple of really nice filled udders   I never really enjoyed the taste of black coffee or straight hot tea. I drank a LOT of coffee in my 24 years in the Navy. Probably have the stomach scars from the acid it caused. When I left the Navy, I switched over to hot tea. I can drink Chinese tea (green tea) with lots of sugar (no cream) but when drinking regular; orange/black pekoe tea(s) or coffee, I prefer the french vanilla creamer and a sweetener of some sort. Since I have weight issues, I try to not use real sugar and since it came out, have been using Splenda. Prior to that I used the blue stuff. Never liked or used the pink stuff. Didn't care for the taste of saccharin. The only other artificial sweetener approved by FDA is Stevia. Pretty expensive, so haven't tried it.


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## Baymule

Mini Horses said:


> Here's why I needed a separator......to use more product
> 
> She's nursing twins ...
> View attachment 47840
> 
> She's nursing trips...
> 
> View attachment 47839
> 
> I have some heavy producers here.  Kids have been with them 24/7.


Are they named Dolly Parton?


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## greybeard

I probably still drink 8-12, cups of coffee per day..every day.


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## Latestarter

Once was a time when I drank that much coffee but no longer... I make 1 large mug of hot tea in the morning ~32oz using 2 tea bags. That lasts me normally till ~lunch time at which point I swap over to Crystal light iced tea. Since my bout with renal failure, I've been mixing the iced tea 50/50 with poweraid of various flavors quite frequently. I can down anywhere from 3-6 (same sized) mugs of that over the remainder of my awake hours.


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## Mini Horses

I drink more coffee than I did 20 years ago.   Then it was hot tea, cream & touch of sugar.  Coffee only a cup about 3 in afternoon.  Now, it's coffee!!  Occasional hot tea in evening.
Our tastes change over time -- actually or taste buds do.

Ya know, LS, the artificial sweeteners can have an off taste, to me.  Stevia does, IMO.   Since I use so little, sugar is fine.  But I have a lot of all of them in those small packets.   can't use at another event...all new each time. Every once in a while I bundle it all and give it to someone or someplace -- a volunteer fire department, a church, etc. -- with stirrers & all that.    This week I will be bringing  home the extra cups & lids, too.  I haven't had to buy coffee in over a year.  Job perks. Sunday event will be a different product.  Free stuff is always nice -- esp grocery.

Bay -- they both look like Dolly!    Their sister is still nursing her last year kid  as in 14 months ago.    Their mom was a full Saanen and same huge udder.    Now, this Fall my new buck will breed them.  He is a full Saanen from great milk lines with tight udders.  Those kids will still be 1/4 Nubian but  I expect outstanding milkers.   They eat well but do keep the dairy look as everything goes to MILK. A little thinner than I like right now. They will gain slightly with all the fresh graze but, never "fat".  Great milk. Yes, some have horns.  Most disbudded.

Mike, she does waddle part of the day.  Almost feel badly for them right now.  It's not so bad when regular 2X day milking except just before milk time.  These gals provide 1.5-2 gal a day, each.   My mini nubs aren't slackers, they give me almost 1 gal each.   Next year, I will be selling stand trained "in milk" does.  They will be FF 2 y/o.   I can get 500-550 per head that way. Will have 8.   Bucklings get fed out & sold --  slaughter or breeders, some wethers.   Farm income.    The six main girls stay here for me.   I enjoy them.

Goats can be self paying.    Look at the ones LS just sold.  No complaints there.


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## Latestarter

Nice that you are able (and willing) to "spread the wealth" on your left over work goodies MH. Yes, free stuff generally is a no turn down situation... Especially groceries. Maybe you should build some milk stanchions as well and sell those along with the goats?  You know, with all that free time you have  Should be worth another hundred or more. I look at some of the home made stanchions offered for sale on CL and scratch my head at what some folks are asking for what they're selling...  I mean some are obviously thrown together from old scrap lumber and they have it priced like it's gold plated... 


Just got through doing copper boluses for all my adults. Noticed some of their coats are getting a bit rough and a couple have started developing fish tails.   I used a little peanut butter on the back end of each capsule to hold it in the balling gun. I missed the depth on the first one and as a result I heard CB chew up at least one capsule, but she didn't spit anything out and was a pest from there on out wanting more peanut butter. After I was all done, I let her lick up the remaining PB off the paper plate. I've found that if I stand beside them and hold them by the lower jaw with thumb and finger pushing in from the sides, I can both hold them and get their mouths pried open to get the balling gun in. Then I just have to force it past their tongue to get to the start of their throat. It's funny, but they don't like "backing up" so easy to hold them in place that way.

Was checking their hooves while doing them and I'm gonna have to do that again here, most likely late this afternoon/early evening when it cools down a bit or tomorrow after milking. It isn't even noon yet and it's 80°and climbing. Forecast mid 80s today. AC is on.

Despite the wetness, I went ahead and mowed the goat pasture yesterday. Just wanted to get it done so I can go a week without anything needing mowing... When I first started, every time I engaged the blades, the engine stalled so before I could even start I had to get back under the deck again and clear out the build up from the last time. It wasn't that bad, but enough to bog the blades from spooling up. That fixed the issue. I did it while the goats (& Mel) were out there and after the first couple of passes they figured out that the big noisy machine was NOT out to eat them.  Now today, they're out there standing wide eyed and frozen... I guess they now have to figure out how to graze on short plants rather than knee high stuff.


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## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> I guess they now have to figure out how to graze on short plants rather than knee high stuff.



Meanie!!  

Nope -- milking stands on their own.  Training to milk is enough.  I often milk without a stand!!   Haven't used one in months.   A small rubber mat is nice for the knees -- and wet grass, poo, etc. off pants or knees. 

Yeah, need hoof trims here for some.  Darn big buck is an issue as he wants to move a lot.  I strap him to the fence with a wide tie down strap -- fence, under belly, over back to fence again near hind legs....hook collar and tie at front end & he stands well.  Otherwise he's a couple hundred pound pussycat.  Drizzle today. Hooves softer.

Always something to do.  Heading to a friends to give annual vaccines to her  9 horses in a few. She has the meds & needles waiting.


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## CntryBoy777

Something I do LS is to only mow portions of the pasture inside the fence....it gives them high browse to eat and then the just mowed has time to grow some....then cut the remaining portions the next time....the goats like to stand in the cut areas and eat in the growing areas. I always have space to blow the grass without it bogging down very much. It averages out to cutting the whole area once every 2wks.


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## Mini Horses

CntryBoy that's good idea.  I've bagged fresh cut & dumped to hogs & chickens also.   I believe they don't like their entire area changed all at one time.  LOL


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## Latestarter

Good thinking there Fred! I'll remember that for the next time. I'll cut swaths so they'll have "roads" to walk down as they graze.


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## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> Are they named Dolly Parton?


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## Latestarter

So every month when I go to pay the water bill, I stop by the pound/shelter to see what's available. Today there was a young love bug fella on death row. His time was about up and he had about a day left to live. He was so gentle and friendly, I just couldn't let him die. So welcome the new family member:



 

Sorry it's a little dark, but he's a bit clingy right now. He also feels threatened by Mel, so growls whenever Mel gets near him. No altercations and I let him know that's not acceptable when I'm near and it happens. $63 and comes with a voucher for rabies, neuter, implanted chip, and 30 day life insurance. I'll set up the neuter appt post haste as that will help with the male vs male issue. Adoption card says his name is paddy... No longer. New name not decided yet.

Lab mix of some sort, prob with some smaller dog like a terrier of some sort. Real strong haunches but small and maybe 30-35 pounds.


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## Mini Horses

Awww...sweet!  You ole softie


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## Baymule

Labs are the best! Lab mix are the best too! Got any ideas for a name yet?


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## Wehner Homestead

And his name shall be...Brady  (you are a Pats fan )


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## RollingAcres

Awwww I'm so happy for you both!


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## Bruce

Are you going to train him up as a LGD??
Regardless, I think he will be a great dog for you and Mel, once Mel learns to share.


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## Latestarter

This little dog is conflicted...  As am I becoming... He was so "sweet & friendly" at the pound. Things were transitional when I brought him home last evening, but seem to be getting progressively worse with time. He was listed as a stray but he was somebody's house pet as he's house trained. Stayed in over night with Mel outside and no accidents. He is a growler and potentially food aggressive with Mel. He growls at Mel any time Mel gets close to him. Mel simply ignores him. Mel could fit this pup's whole head inside his mouth if he wanted to... and probably crush it.

He has become mouthy with me and is taking my hand and wrist into his mouth when I try to push him away or correct him. No pressure but not a good thing to be happening. He constantly wants to jump up on me and he has clawed blood out of my forearms, as well as hit me in the face and neck with those paws/claws

He has also decided as of this afternoon that the livestock (goats) are toys to be challenged and charged at. He pushed through the gate into the pasture while the goat pen was open and thankfully I was there and only RJ and one baby were actually out of the pen. I quickly put them back inside and closed the pen. He then went under a gate and exited the pasture into freedom. I did get hold of him and get him back inside the yard fencing.

He has to have some sort of terrier in him as he is persistent as hell and will NOT take "NO" for an answer. Even right now he's trying to climb on me and I push him down and away and he just keeps coming.  I set up a neuter and shots appt for him this coming Monday. Will see how things go tomorrow and into Friday morning but right now it's looking like he may have to go back to the pound. I'm not sure I have the patience to deal with his behavior nor the time to try and "break" him to train him. I can't have a livestock aggressive dog.   And with his mixed up breeding, I don't know that that issue is resolvable. <sigh>


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## Baymule

I understand. A dog has to be a "fit" on a farm. Where I see so many people mess up is trying to keep a dog or dogs that clearly don't "fit" and cause more problems than they are worth. This dog will take a lot of time, patience, time, training and more patience. Even then, will he fit?


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## Latestarter

I've been having internet issues over the past week as well. I have to keep resetting power on the modem to get service. Finally called the service provider today. They issued a tech visit work order and I'm waiting to find out when that's going to happen. At the same time I complained about the cost and told what Hughes is offering. They changed me to a slightly different plan and lowered my monthly cost by ~ $30.00. It all helps. I think I'm still changing providers when the 2 years is up. we'll see.


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## Baymule

Excede is worse.


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## Latestarter

Excede is who I'm presently with... Yeah... I know...   I think he might be a good dog for a "no other dog" household with no livestock & young teen children to burn up some of his energy. Maybe lots of chew toys too. Like right now, he's laying down peacefully behind me here (finally). This is what I saw/envisioned when I agreed to take him.


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## Baymule

I'm on Hughes Net, not the greatest, but it sure beats nothing. From what I hear, it beats the heck out of Excede too.


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## RollingAcres

I hope things will work our for your new dog and you. He needs some time to adjust and get used to things, and lots of training.
Who knows, maybe he might "fit" in, or he might not. Only time will tell.


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## Bruce

Maybe @Southern by choice has some ideas on the new dog. My guess is that part of his current issues relate to the stress of being at the pound and now moving again. No idea how long it would take for him to let go of that.


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## Southern by choice

He is just under high stress and high anxiety.
Nervousness is manifesting with the mouthing. The food aggression may not be a true aggression. Again  stress. A good month of rountine and acceptance and he should come around and you can see his true nature then.

Hope it works out for you LS.  Good of you to try.


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## Rammy

Im  up to page 34!! Maybe I can get caught up by this weekend if I only read this thread.


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## Bruce

And don't eat or sleep.


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## Latestarter

Little dog is still with me. He's sleeping right behind me and has calmed down a bit. I'm going to give it some time. This is my first time starting with an adult dog of unknown history. I normally start with puppies and raise them to be what I expect. He'll go for his de-boying procedure Monday. They said drop off between 7:30-8am and pick up ~ 3pm. I do believe though that he's going to be rather hard headed and a training challenge to me because of it. He doesn't comprehend the meaning of "NO!"...  He is also "clingy/needy" and likes a lot of attention. I think he'll get past that once he realizes that he's found a home & I'm not going anywhere and neither is he.

Good to have you along on the merry go round @Rammy  Hope you don't find the whole thing boring. I don't find my day to day life all that exciting...   Please don't feel obligated to forego food and sleep to read it all... It's going to be here and available as you have the inclination to proceed.

So the internet repair guy came and replaced the receiver horn on the antenna. They use a new type now. As is so often the case with electronics, could not duplicate the problem reported, so nothing to "fix"...  Well, at least its working right now.

Also received a call back from a tech at Sprint. Every month when I go to pay my bill online, the website doesn't recognize me and forces me to change my password, many times, multiple times per session, before it will let me in. Hopefully, they'll be able to track down what's causing that major hassle. It all started when they "enhanced their security" about 6 months ago.

All the pastures need mowing again  Might have something to do with the 2" of rain we recently got.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Every month when I go to pay my bill online, the website doesn't recognize me and forces me to change my password, many times, multiple times per session, before it will let me in.


usually caused by what their security deems a weak password..one that's been blunt force hacked.


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## Rammy

Im up to the part where you finally found a home. Im glad you did because I am worn out just reading about all the driving! Looking for a new home is exausting. I look to see whats out there and get tired, let alone driving 10 hours one way. Its interesting reading. Lets me get to know you, as well as other members on here. 
I agree with you on your views as to where this country is headed and also want to be more self suffucient. If I could afford it, I would get somewhere where I dont have neighbors breathing down my neck either. Where Im at now, I feel like Im in a fishbowl. No privacy. Course, I have cameras pointed at the creepy neighbors house, but y'all know the reason for that.
I try to read about ten pages a day so shouldnt take me long to get caught up. Im caught up on Werner Homesteads journal!  Just thought it would be fun to read everyones journals and postings. I have to be careful when reading @Baymule's postings and drinking something. My computer  doesnt like it when I spew Pepsi all over it laughing at something she wrote!
Glad to get to know you and all the many new friends on here.


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## Mike CHS

We feel blessed to have Great neighbors who have all become a second family.  We are all a half mile or so apart but it's a good community.


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## Baymule

@Latestarter went through quite a process to find his place. It was a lot of work, but so worth it in the end.


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## Mike CHS

For the time that I have been on the forum I have really enjoyed all of those mundane boring tasks that comes to mean so much for how we all get to where we are.


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## Latestarter

Actually, the password issue with Sprint isn't the strength of the password... It's the scripts that their site requires to be run in the background, which I don't want run as they are tracking scripts... facebook, google, advertising scripts, data skimmers, etc. None of which have anything whatsoever to do with Sprint and my account. They claim they are enhancing security but by adding all these third party scripts for data mining and tracking purposes, they are in fact doing just the opposite.


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## Rammy

Hopefully I will get to see pics of any improvements he has made since the purchase. Its like reading a good book.


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## CntryBoy777

...and oh so "colorful" too!!....


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## Wehner Homestead

@Rammy I totally get it. I made my way through *most* of the journals (at least the ones that stay on the main page.) The only reason I got through so many in the short time I did is that I had hurt my back and was stuck in a recliner. Not much else to do that’s very entertaining. Lol

It’s definitely neat getting to know each and every person. Some don’t have journals and their stories are a bit more difficult to piece together but I really enjoy this community and look forward to my time here.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Actually, the password issue with Sprint isn't the strength of the password... It's the scripts that their site requires to be run in the background, which I don't want run as they are tracking scripts... facebook, google, advertising scripts, data skimmers, etc. None of which have anything whatsoever to do with Sprint and my account. They claim they are enhancing security but by adding all these third party scripts for data mining and tracking purposes, they are in fact doing just the opposite.



That's the case just about everywhere. Anywhere that has anything to do with my personal accounts, or any kind of business, my antivirus automatically opens in a separate secure browser. No scripts allowed, no data mining, no ads. 

Even here at BYH, the mining never stops. See the arrow below? I've seen times there were 15-20 instead of 5.  Click on it and it tells me how many attempts were made and blocked from this (BYH) website to collect data..among other things.
Right now, it's blocking ads and web beacons or what some call web bugs. 



 

Skimbit or skimlink works by a little javascript snippet installed in the website footer or header, tho sometimes a little 1 pixel x 1 pixel thingie and almost always invisible.


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## Baymule

@greybeard what antivirus do you have?


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## Mini Horses

Mike CHS said:


> For the time that I have been on the forum I have really enjoyed all of those mundane boring tasks that comes to mean so much for how we all get to where we are.



Absolutely.  They are very much like the discussions families used to have around a dinner table each day.      The pictures allow us to "visit" in person.  

This time of year I rarely get to read more than one or two BUT...soon I will be on "catch up"  and get the rest of them read.  It's MY relax & visit time.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> @greybeard what antivirus do you have?


One that lots of people don't want, because of who developed it, but I've probably tried them all and it's the best there is.
Kapersky.


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## Latestarter

There's a catch to all this computer and internet stuff... Some things you CAN block, and other things you can't. For example, you can open BYH and scan every thread and read every entry. You can block the site from seeing your IP address but the site can see that you've (or someone) opened a page. If you want to post anything however, you have to have an account and you have to sign in. That means you have to actually interact and send data to the site. You also have to share some personal (computer) data with the site so that you can sign in to your account in the future. When you create the username and password, that info is stored and shared at both ends. So even when you have the site blocked, it can and does know that it's you and what pages you've visited, when you started, when you ended, & what sequence each page was visited, (or what order). There's no real way to "hide" this from the site if you sign in to use the site. You can still however block third party software designed to track you as that isn't "required" for the site to function for you. If you use the site's search function, that too opens you up to data mining as the search words you used can be stored and used to target you with specific advertising based around those terms. So essentially, if and when you "send" anything to a site, that info can and will be "used against you" in any way possible.

So really, it's impossible to block all data collection and still have a useful internet... Gotta take the good with the bad. And generally speaking, you have to trust that the sites you choose to use are honest and straight up and are not going to take advantage of you. There is of course the other side to this. Take BYH for example, it costs a LOT of time & money to run a site like this with maintenance, updates, improvements, and just the cost of storing all of the information this site contains. @Nifty is a great guy, and though I'm sure he is generous to a fault, he really has to have some way to recoup what it costs to run this joint. Now there's two ways he can do that... get the money from you, the user, by way of a membership fee, or by third party income by allowing producers of products the ability to advertise to you.

It's become kinda like an internet arms race as many sites now have anti script blocker scripts running so if you load their site and they aren't allowed to run the ad scripts, they block their content from you. Most folks don't see this as they aren't blocking scripts anyway. But for those of us that do, I can vouch for the fact that it's quite annoying when I try to visit a site for information they are offering and I get a large window opening over the site, blocking everything or not allowing it to load, that states "We see that you are using adblocker software, to use our site, please disable this" or the message says "We see that you have Javascript disabled (right to the point there). To get the full benefit of our site, please enable Javascript". Some sites will allow some restricted use of the site even with the ad/script blocker software, but you won't get full functionality. Other sites, you won't even get to first base. On the latter type sites, I simply click away. 99% of the time I can find what I'm looking for elsewhere. Their loss. Actually, they've lost nothing, and neither have they gained anything. Because I won't be linking their web address to anyone (who might not be blocking anything).





ETA You can also see that one of the scripts I'm NOT allowing to run is that skimresources script that GB also pointed out. Doubleclick is another data mining script, as is Googletagservices.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> get the money from you, the user, by way of a membership fee


I would much rather that than ads, banners, data mining and tracking.

Opening page in a new window 'in incognito' helps.


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## greybeard

Right now, 11 is the number of data miners looking for information on this website in this session.


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## greybeard

4 minutes later, it's up to 19. Those just what was blocked.




now........having been nowhere else but BYH in this browsing session:


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I think he'll get past that once he realizes that he's found a home & I'm not going anywhere and neither is he.


I think that is likely. Our oldest cat was a rescue from the Humane Society. She was turned in, presumably some family couldn't keep her. She was a bit neurotic and chewed shoelaces. Stuff them in your shoes or lose them. DW forgot with her NEW shoes. I had to buy her new laces before she even wore the shoes. Samantha hasn't chewed a lace in 10 years and we've had her not much longer than that. 

I hope the little guy figures out that he has a stable home quickly.


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## Latestarter

Man GB, "they" are really trying to get the low down on you...   You got skeletons or something? 

Yea Elf has a lot of nervous energy yet. He's lying right beside me right now staring up at me intently. Mel is just the other side of him snoring... Here are the two of them last night. It's hard to get a pic because if I make any noise at all while moving, Elf is up and wanting attention. He's nowhere near as large as the pictures make him appear. He's just much closer to the camera. He does have very strong haunches and slender shoulders. He wants to jump up with his paws constantly and it's a chore constantly pushing him off and putting his paws back down on the ground. His front claws are what have raked open my forearms in a number of places.

OK, so how'd he get his name... well, I keep referring to him as "Little Fella" and that led to "LF" which when spoken, sounds like "Elf", so there ya have it. And he is a little "elfish" if that means kinda flighty and small.

This is in the back bedroom where I have my computer. The carpet is actually a grey color but these pics were taken with my phone last night.



 





Just got through re-burning scur starts on the three remaining boy babies. I re-burned the 2 biggest (Dot's boys) about a week ago. Having to deal with RJ's scurs, I do NOT want scurs! All the doelings initial burns were adequate and none of them had scurs developing.  2 of the three I just did weren't bad at all but I'm taking no chances. Specially since 2 of them are sold and the woman specifically stated part of her reason for buying was because they'd have no horns. 

@Devonviolet have you checked Hope and Faith to make sure there are no scurs developing? If there are, it's no biggie as I can hit them again when I return the iron and box. Just let me know. Speaking of which, is there a day coming up that would work for me to swing them by?


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## Bruce

Looks like Mel is living up to his name having Elf in the house, doesn't look perturbed at all.

I expect you will have a routine and Elf will get used to that. I think that will calm him a fair bit knowing that things happen in an orderly expected manner and make him less needy. At least I hope so.


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## Baymule

Both dogs look content and happy. Elf may settle down once he realizes he has a home.


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## Devonviolet

First let me welcome you to BYH, Rammy!     I haven't had much spare time lately, so, have gotten behind, with my reading and posting.



Rammy said:


> I have to be careful when reading @Baymule's postings and drinking something. My computer  doesnt like it when I spew Pepsi all over it laughing at something she wrote!


Having move to NE TX back in mid 2014 , with my dear, sweet husband, I have been blessed to get to know Latestarter and Baymule.  You are,so right about Bay!  She is a stitch!  We moved onto our little homesteads at approximately the same times, and she, her DH and my DH and I have gotten to be good friends. We laugh a lot!!!


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## Rammy

Thanks! Im up to page 56.  Learning alot about trucks and tractors.  I dont have enough land fir a tractor, but would be fun to get one. I o ly have 3 acres tital but would love  to have more, especially if it had a water source on it like -@Latestarter does. When rhe crap hits the fan, thats gonna be a plus.


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## greybeard

Rammy said:


> would love to have more, especially if it had a water source on it like -@Latestarter does. When rhe crap hits the fan, thats gonna be a plus.



Unless water getting on it IS the crap that hits the fan.....


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## Rammy

Ain't that the truth!


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## Latestarter

Well, after a week of being time limited and only visiting my journal, I finally got to sit down and go back through over 100 alerts and 4 pages of new posts. By the time I finished that, I had another 25 new alerts to look through. But, I'm finally caught back up.  

Tomorrow Elf goes to get his masculinity removed, normal shots and rabies vac, initial check up, and whatever all else. I'm supposed to drop him off around 7:30-8 then pick him back up around 3-3:30ish. Ought to be fun (for me ). Not a morning person though, and he's been making sure I'm up by 7. He'll pay for it tomorrow 

Have the last bit of a butt ham in the fridge to finish and I'm getting tired of ham. Would really like to dive into a New England seafood feast of lobster and clams about now.    Hmmm Maybe I can get #1 favorite oldest daughter to bring some live lobsters and clams down from Maine with her when she visits the end of June!  That thought just dawned on me. Maybe her luggage won't be so much to prevent her doing so... I'll have to ask her. Damn... that would be too easy and too awesome!


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## Rammy

Sounds like a plan!


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## Latestarter

So it's not lobster... I'm eating a poor man's Philly mushroom and onion cheese steak sub. Made with 85% lean ground beef, seasoned & stir fried with onions and mushrooms. The cooled meat mix is also good wrapped in a flour tortilla with cheese and nuked for ~45 seconds. Can add other stuff for flavor like some salsa and hot sauce etc. When I was working, I used to take them for lunch. Fast, filling, and good. Have also taken them on long road trips. Can heat one in any gas stop convenience store and munch while driving.


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## Latestarter

Elf is back from his date with destiny (emasculation)  Much calmer and though I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the drugs, I'm hoping it carries forward. Little Fella really pulled a fast one on me when I got him home and out of the truck. He took off like lightening, jerking the leash right out of my hand. He had seen a baby bunny and ran it up across the driveways and into the drainage ditch. Fast little guy but the rabbit had a head start and he lost it in the garbage in the ditch. He's spent most of his time since getting home sleeping. 

He had no breakfast, and can't have food till after 6pm. I'll give him a little extra for dinner to compensate. They gave him all his shots including rabies while there and he has pain meds to take for the next 3-4 days... 1/2 tab (100mg) every 12 hours so he'll get it with his meals. They said to start that tomorrow morning, and no sutures, so that saves me a trip back. Mel had to check out the smell emanating from the site. Of course Elf wasn't all that pleased with that at all. 

My knee has been degrading steadily over the past week. (wonder if it's from the butt ham I've been eating... chemicals?) I've spent the past 2 days sitting in my recliner with an ice pack on it and then the jacuzzi before bed. It's on the inside, centered on the joint, right below the knee cap. Quite painful. Still managing to care for the animals and do what's required, but not a lot extra beyond that. Having said that, I'm heading back there now until goat chore time. Hope y'all have had a great start to your week!


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## Bruce

Sure hope your knee clears up quick Joe. Hard to get much done when you can't walk without pain.

Christofur lost his manliness last Wednesday. He was fine until about a month ago but he started spraying. Why then at about 16 months old? Being an indoor cat he's never seen nor smelled a female in heat and the other 3 cats are fixed so it isn't like he needed to mark his territory. He had a long acting pain killer, we didn't have to do anything other than let him out of the carrier when we got home. He is DD2's cat and her birthday was on the 2nd. It was a very expensive present.


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## Latestarter

I was pretty lucky as the neuter was free with the price of the adoption. So was the rabies vac. So essentially, they cost combined $63.00. I ended up paying ~$69.00 more for all the other shots, the check up and the pain meds for him. Can't complain too much about that. But while we're on the subject, I also found out when I got Elf that _TX law requires_ that all pound animals be neutered/spayed.  I believe they said that also includes shelter animals. If you get one and don't have the procedure done it can be stiff fines and or jail time.   So I told them to forget about contacting me for Pyrs or Tolis... My goal was to get a female PB or cross of the 2 for Mel to partner with. If she proved to be a good LGD, then I could consider breeding them for replacements/additions. Guess I'm gonna have to do it through a breeder or private party purchase instead for breeding purposes. If there were a proven LGD up for adoption, I guess I might consider it.

Sorry you had to pay full price for Christofur Bruce. Just curious, but what did it come to for a cat? My DD#1's birthday present ran about $325 (round trip airline tickets) and will increase over time once she gets here.   Of course I'll send her some travel cash as well to cover expenses. This is the epileptic, now in Maine, who is fighting for disability, & can't drive or work. I'm anticipating her Christmas present will cost about the same or a bit more. Oh well, I'm looking forward to seeing her. With all the animals I can't really travel more than a day trip. And since Elf doesn't self regulate food, I can't simply set out a couple of days worth for him. 

The past couple of days have been very uncomfortable as my hair has grown out long and when sweating it just aggravates me. Hard to comprehend as when I was a teen my hair was shoulder length or longer... Guess all those years in the military had an effect. Anyway, I've always had hair clippers since my kids were kids. I've also used them on the dogs. So I broke them out with a #3 guide and gave myself a haircut. Not bad if I do say so myself! At the barber I normally have them use a #2 guide but don't do my whole head with it, just the sides. This time I did my whole head. Kinda like the Wahl commercial about the firefighters who cut their own hair. Wish I could edge the back but I'll get over it. Saved $20 I'd have had to pay at a barber.  Another 10 chances at the lottery


----------



## greybeard

Had a male cat fixed,a male dog, and a female dog fixed and it was $325 including some meds and shots but same vet that takes care of my cows. (I cut or band the calves myself. 
Was going to do the cat myself with the rubber boot trick but wife wouldn't let me. 
Not hard to do, but the trick is getting yourself the heck out of the way when he comes out of the boot. They ain't happy atall.


----------



## Mini Horses

Haircuts.   Hmmm...I've used my clippers before   Did great job clipping horses for shows year back.  It's a little different with your own head.   BUT with the guides it helps.  Do you feel like your are back in the Navy?      Take the guide off and come down stroke on back edge. 

Hope your knees are getting better.  I'm certain it's hard to work with that pain in every step.

Glad you got all the vetting done.   It should help Elf calm some.  Mel seems to be taking it all in stride well -- having to share your attention and all.    My little house dog won't self regulate food eating either.  I swear, it's annoying but she just thinks she's supposed to eat whatever is out.

Unfortunately one of my cats disappeared about 2 weeks ago.  I've searched and searched.   It was about the time I began seeing a  young fox.    She's been here about 12 yrs so I do miss her!   Good barn cat.  Now, I need a couple younger ones but, the old feral who decided he WAS gonna be living here 17 yrs ago (as an adult cat he moved in) doesn't really take kindly to any "new residents"   I judge him to be about 19-20 and obviously aging!   I do need some good mousers - and see a pair coming home with me in the not too distant future.   The old boy won't even chase a fly anymore.       Ideally, a couple kittens, barn raised with mom -- a few months old.  It's like getting an LGD who's been "started".  Makes a difference. when they are taught & have a desire.

Heat has hit our area hard now -- 88-92 days/70+ nights -- and the humidity is also starting to roll in....ahhh, summer!  It's when you forget how COLD winter & snow can be and begin to THINK it may be better than the heat.   It isn't!      Just hard to be thrown into the change all at once.   We used to have something called "Spring" with some ease into it weather.    With the heat -- I found the car has a leak in the AC line.  Gotta get that fixed to keep the Freon in there.  Need AC.  Don't need the repair bill.  Truck is good AC but, gas mileage not as good.

Just turned AC unit on in my house yesterday.   I am good with 74-75 but, 79 gets too warm.  If I could just keep the outside temps at 75-80 I would be thrilled    Dreaming!


----------



## Baymule

Sorry your knee is giving you problems. Walking is kinda essential on a farm......


----------



## RollingAcres

Ok I'm all caught up now! Hope your knee is better @Latestarter .
I like the name Elf for your new dog!


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## Mike CHS

Is there anything that can be done for your knee or is this one of those things you are going to have to live with?

I have been retired from Navy since 1991 never learned how to tolerate longish hair.  It starts touching my ears and I ask Teresa to break out the trimmers.  She refuses to give me a High & Tight cut so every once in awhile I have to go see the barber.


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## Latestarter

Did you do a straight 20 Mike? I ask because I thought we were closer in age and I retired in 2000 (24 yrs). I also started a year late as I "tried" a year of college and determined it wasn't for me.


----------



## Mike CHS

A couple of months over 20.  I enlisted in '69 and had 3 years out when they did the draw down after Viet Nam.


----------



## greybeard

I signed up USMC late 1968 and entered service Feb '69.
The post Vietnam drawdown is when I left the Marines and went into the Navy. 
One of the great mistakes of my life, but the Marines Re-up offer of Embassy School and Embassy Duty was not my cup of tea. Marine helo door gunners and GSE types tho were a dime a dozen at the time, and even if they had let me re-up to continue with instructor duty, I found it extremely boring.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I was pretty lucky as the neuter was free with the price of the adoption. So was the rabies vac. So essentially, they cost combined $63.00. I ended up paying ~$69.00 more for all the other shots, the check up and the pain meds for him. Can't complain too much about that.


Geez, up here it would cost several hundred to adopt and you pay the neuter cost on top. Good deal there!
Rascal cost us $85 eight years ago at the HS, she was already spayed.

Chrisotfur cost $417 for his hospital trip. But that included $62 to get him chipped, whenever DD2 gets her life going and moves out (which she wants to do so there won't be anyone expecting her to help around the house) it would be good if he was traceable. It also included the vaccines I am not doing because there is a 0.01% chance the cats could get those diseases. But the vet requires them to be admitted to the hospital. He had his state required rabies shot in March. They get you coming and going.


----------



## Mike CHS

I got out planning to go with the FAA but in my naive little 22 year old brain I didn't think about the other couple of thousand ATC operators that were planning the same career path.  FAA got the first group that was discharged and then went into a hiring freeze.  I liked ATC enough that when the Navy figured out they had discharged so many they couldn't man ATC at sea that they started offering NAVETs a jump in pay grade to re-enlist I so jumped back in.


----------



## Bruce

Does this look familiar Joe?


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## Mike CHS

Bruce much of that equipment has been around longer than you have and much of it is still in use.


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## Bruce

I watched that and thought "How the heck did they manage to find ANY submarines?" Talk about a lot of variables and obstacles. Very impressive.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Bruce said:


> I watched that and thought "How the heck did they manage to find ANY submarines?" Talk about a lot of variables and obstacles. Very impressive.



I didn’t know watch the video but the images and conversation made me think of “The Hunt for Red October.”


----------



## Latestarter

Bruce, I think I first saw that video in "A" school in Millington,TN where I first started learning the basics (1976). For those interested, if you go to 1:52/10:28/11:56/etc, you will see the actual Sensor Stations on a P-3A/B/C Orion aircraft. I started out in the left seat there (SS2) and once experienced, became a SS1 and moved to the right seat. Man did that bring back memories. Take my word for it... we found a few submarines  Always an awesome feeling to count coup on a sub that didn't know we were there.   I never did any ASW missions on S-3 aircraft or the SH2 helo (small boys), but did do some missions on the larger H3 aircraft. I briefed/debriefed the S-3 crews on the carrier.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Bruce, I think I first saw that video in "A" school in Millington,TN where I first started learning the basics (1976).



I don't think so, if the text introduction is correct (I didn't watch it all).
Definitely during Zumwalt Navy tho.


> This is an amazing time capsule that could have come right out of the pages of Tom Clancey's classic thriller, “The Hunt for the Red October.” In this memorable recreation, a US Navy Carrier Task Force detects and tracks a Soviet sub in the North Atlantic. You'll see all aspects of the operation from the high tech Tactical Command Centers aboard the Carrier USS America and Destroyer *USS Spruance (DDG-111)*,



That USS Spruance DDG-111, wasn't commissioned until the autumn of 2011.
Maybe they meant DD-963, a different USS Spruance that was predominantly for ASW, commissioned Sept 75 but DD-963 didn't do anything outside Gulf of Mexico in shakedown and sea/builder trials until late 76, early 77. I'm pretty sure DD963's first Atlantic cruise was in late '77 as according to www.hullnumber,  her 1st shellback initiation wasn't  Feb 78. (Atlantic)

I was on DD-964, just 5 months behind lead ship of the class Spruance and it didn't deploy to WestPac/Indian Ocean until the Fall of '78.


----------



## RollingAcres

@Latestarter I "jumped" in your journal a few weeks back but today I decided to read it from the beginning. Page 1 done, 470 more pages to go! lol


----------



## Latestarter

Welcome to the mundane @RollingAcres   GB, Zumwalt was made Chief of Naval Operations in 1970. He retired in 1974. He was already gone when I enlisted. That youtube was a redo of the original with enhanced color. I may be mistaken, but pretty sure I saw it at some point pretty early in my career during training. No matter. brought back memories regardless. Also gives folks here who may be interested a chance to see what I did during my early years.


----------



## greybeard

Zumie may have been gone, but Zgrams 57 and 70 stuck around for quite awhile afterwards, as did the civilian clothing thing.  It wasn't until mid 80s that USN surface Navy and Naval Air got rid of Zumie's beards/

It was a real culture shock when I left the Corps and went into the Navy. When I got off the plane in GTMO, I thought I had landed in a commune full of dang hippies...


----------



## Latestarter

Not sure why you refer to them as "Zumie's beards"... sailors had beards throughout history.  I couldn't (and still can't) grow one, so no skin off my face, but a nicely kept beard doesn't look bad at all IMHO. I do agree that those who can't (couldn't) grow and maintain one... shouldn't. When I lived in cooler climates, I always grew out a gaotee in the fall and shaved it off in the early summer. It becomes uncomfortable in warm/hot weather.

I don't understand the issue with long(er) hair either. I mean men and women are supposed to be "equal" right? And if a woman can do a man's job, then she should be allowed to. And equal pay for equal work. And all the other one liners. So why are men required to keep their hair high and tight and women aren't?   Prior to my service, I always had long hair. I no longer care for it, but don't see how it affects the ability of a person to do most jobs. If a man can't have long hair because it is unsafe in his particular occupation, then a woman in the same occupation should not have long hair either.

Navy was a real druggie place in the late 70s early 80s as well. Hold over from Nam I guess as well as what was happening out in the world. I was actually glad to see the drug testing get serious and although zero tolerance definitely helped eliminate the problem, it also ended the careers of a few folks who had false positive tests. I feel bad for them as they got royally screwed. And there was no right of appeal.


----------



## Latestarter

Been VERY dry here. Had a little thunder and lightning a couple of nights ago and it rained a few really big drops for like 2 minutes... Nothing that could even be measured, barely wet the ground. There's a nice front line moving this way but it looks like the northern portion that would get to me is breaking north while the remainder moves due east.That means it's going to miss me to either side. Looks like @Baymule might see a bit perhaps, and maybe @Devonviolet as both of them are south of me.




My ankles and slightly up my calves are so itchy! So are my forearms. I've been letting the goats out of the fenced pasture to access other areas. I have & attach three 25 foot leads to them with clips on both ends, so 6 of the adult goats are tethered, 2 to a lead. Of course they always run as a herd so they are constantly getting themselves tangled in the brush as well as with each other. But it does allow me to catch them and move them when needed. So, while untangling, I invariably get them wrapping the plastic coated wire around my ankles. I finally realized why and how I'm getting poison ivy/oak all around my ankles!   The danged goats are dragging the wire through all of that stuff! I then get the oils all over my ankles and hands from handling the wire. 


I spent the past 2 afternoons mowing. I start about 2:30-3pm after the main heat of the day. I can't really start early morning as the dew makes the grass too wet. I mow till about 7:30-8pm, then do goat chores, then dog chores, then shower, then eat. So I'm pretty beat by 10pm. I spend most of the morning dozing in front of the TV or here at the computer to make up for the sleep I didn't get all night.  heading over to visit @Devonviolet here in  about an hour, so don't know that I'll be mowing this afternoon or not. Probably not, especially (and I hope it does) if the rain actually happens here. The front and about 1/2 the back pasture is done.


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## Mike CHS

I usually get into Poison Ivy unintentionally but if I'm weed eating and take the time to take a good look at what's there I put on some Ivyblock lotion.  We get it from Amazon but it has been awhile.

If I still get some on me I immediately jump in the shower and use Ivy Off soap.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Not sure why you refer to them as "Zumie's beards"... sailors had beards throughout history.



You aren't?


Latestarter said:


> Not sure why you refer to them as "Zumie's beards"... sailors had beards throughout history.


Probably because beards in the modern USN hadn't been commonplace for surface enlisted personnel since before you and I were born and I never saw beards on USN enlisted prior to Zumie. Even on the riverine navy I saw in Vietnam, where fresh water was scarce and discipline relaxed, beards were a rarity.  I didn't see any on Sanctuary either. 

Zumwalt said it was ok, and it took off and was often abused, which is hwy he had to issue ZGram70. I had a seaman working for me in engineering that kept his hair up in a bun under his cover aboard ship, but let it down when he went ashore. He and his hair was pretty popular among a certain indigenous demographic when we made port of call to Sembawang Singapore.  He cut it back before we made it out to the sea bouy.
That was the first time I had ever seen a manbun..on a man.


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## Baymule

It clouded up, we got all excited and it drizzled maybe 1/8th of an inch.


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## greybeard

I think we got a little more than 1/4". 
mejor que nada


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## Latestarter

Finished up the mowing. Showered and about to head out for goat chores. Not sure what happened but this morning most of the pain was gone from my knee. It's back to a lesser degree, but nowhere near as bad as it's been the past week. Hopefully it will go into full remission. Maybe tomorrow I'll try to get back to fencing.


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## Mike CHS

You get so used to body pains that you almost don't notice when you don't have them. Hopefully it will get better.


----------



## Latestarter

So I'm out in the goat pen giving Ivermectin doses to the adults and Elf starts barking, and though he's at the back yard goat fence, he's staring down back. So I turn around and son of a B... there's a coyote standing out in the back pasture at the left edge, staring across to the other side! Mel didn't see it, hear it, and I'm trying to direct his attention to it, and he's staring at me and trying to play keep away!  

So now I'm out of the pen, trying to get Mel to do his job and there's TWO coyotes just taking their damned sweet time crossing the back pasture!  I'm running toward the back fence yelling and they're paying me no attention at all. And of course Mel is following me wanting to play and all the goats are stampeding right along for the trip! So finally, 1/2 way down the pasture, Mel sees the two coyotes as they are approaching the other side of the pasture and takes off running toward the fence corner barking. This finally caught the attention of the coyotes and they took off into the woods. I don't have Mel with the goats full time yet. He spends most of the day with them, and he's outside at night, but in the back yard, not the pasture. Though he hangs out with them, they are not his center of focus. I am beginning to have my doubts that I can get him back to being a true LGD. I mean things could be worse, but having him as a house dog, I would not have taken in the stray. 

Just washed my arms with dawn and Clorox with the hottest water I could get from the tap. Have you ever experienced something where it hurts, but feels so good at the same time? That hot water on the ivy blisters really burned, but it really felt good. So now I'll wipe it all down with alcohol then get some anti itch drying salve on it all.


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## Mike CHS

I couldn't like that one but I feel your pain.


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## Baymule

Mel needs to step it up. Or you need to get another LGD, Mel was picked by SBC for you as a companion dog. His first alliance is to you. He will bark and run off coyotes, but he is not on high alert for them. He probably was protecting you more than the goats. 

Maybe you can pen the goats up at night and give Mel free run of the back yard and pasture. I do believe he would run the fence barking, his instinct tells him that coyotes are bad. While he might not be dedicated to the goats, he knows predators are not welcome.


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> You get so used to body pains that you almost don't notice when you don't have them. Hopefully it will get better.



New pain becomes 'the new normal'.


----------



## Mini Horses

Knee pain...I find that if I sleep with the ceiling fan going in my bedroom, then I need to be sure to put more cover on my legs.  Otherwise, I may wake with knee & ankle soreness. Nothing from deep in the joints but all surrounding ligaments.  Apparently the warmer temps from a light blanket keeps the blood flow adequate and related parts supple.   Age happens  

I know you have some other medical stuff but, possibly the temps may also contribute.  A thought.   


As to MEL....bless his heart, he wanted to play!    But, like Bay says, he may be more inclined to protect YOU from demons at night if he hears something outside.   You not with him he will pay more attention.   Meanwhile, at least Elf was watching the goings on.   May not be the big ole attack dog but, an alert to danger sure helps.   And with 120+ pounds of backup, may be what you need.   My 10#  minpin is a raging alerter!!


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## Bruce

Elf is your new LGD!!

Time to start carrying the rifle.

The two 10# minipins I've met were a raging PITA with the "alerting" even when I was in their house with their owners. Shaddup already, they know I'm here, see them standing next to me?


----------



## Alaskan

they are not know for their smarts


----------



## Mini Horses

Come on guys -- mine is not like that!   She doesn't yap at flies but she WILL tell me if a strange car comes into the drive, anyone walks into the yard,  she's really exceptional with NOT being the yapper most of them are.   She will sit, stay, wait, heel, leave it, stop it, come -- and all that.   She will alert with a couple barks but stops when I acknowledge and tell her it's ok.   I'm lucky.   She was a 1 yr old rescue when I got her.


----------



## Latestarter

Didn't do any fencing today. Instead, I dragged out the chain saw and cut some low hanging limbs that were scratching me all to hell when I mowed. The goats were very happy and enthusiastic when I dragged them over and threw them in the pasture. When I got done, I stripped down on the back porch and hosed off. Nice to live out in the boonies  But off course doing any kind of work in this weather means laundry piles up quick... Dirt and sweat means one wear then washer bound.

Speaking of laundry, I decided it was time to wash the sheets. They were very high quality when I bought them (I think I recall they were 5 or6 hundred thread count Egyptian cotton) but they've got a number of years on them... So I strip back the comforter and the top sheet only to find the fitted sheet is torn to shreds down around calf level. Just worn right the heck through. Didn't even feel it while sleeping   So off to wally world for a new set of sheets... I just threw the old sheets as well as the pillow cases in the trash. This time, I did things a bit different and bought a queen fitted in dark tan, a king flat in off white, standard/queen pillow cases to match the flat sheet and then a dark brown king sized comforter. I FINALLY have a sheet and a comforter that reaches more than 4" past the edge of the bed! I'll move my old queen comforter over to the spare room full sized bed, so it too will have a "real" size vice the full sized one.


----------



## greybeard

I haven't done much of anything except back and forth to Drs, hauling in lg mouth bass every morning, and working on my neighbor's 33 year old Honda 250 FourTrax. It had quit running, then sat for 4 years, and he offered to clean the most recent flood debris off one of my fences in exchange for me (labor only) getting it running again. 
I'm beginning to think I really got the short end of the stick with that trade, but I should have it ready for him Friday. 
Fuel enrichment (choke) cable froze up.
Rear brake cable froze up.
Carb bowl was full of some kind of black powdery crap.
Fuel tank full of gummied gasoline and shutoff valve had dissolved.
Rear brakes shoes rusted to the drum.
Main fuse holder back behind the left rear tire had all but fell apart.
Both rear brake adjusting nuts has turned to alum oxide.
It had  had 1 oil change in it's entire life and he wasn't aware there was an oil filter behind the little plastic deco thing by the kick start pedal.
Valves were way out of adjustment and the whole thing covered in tree sap and dirt, sand & leaves. 
Master cylinder for the front brakes is froze in it's bore with the piston all the way in and the handle just flops in the breeze (I'm not going to attempt to fix that...he'll just have to do with rear brake.)
Starter brushes needed cleaning and the commutator was corroded.
The foam air filter was just dust.
Slow jet in the carb body was froze, would not come out and the passage under it was full of crap, but I finally got it all dissolved and the passage clean...I hope. I'll assemble the carb tomorrow and get it put on, put the new choke cable on and get it set up and give it a spin and see what happens...


----------



## Baymule

I admire people who can fix mechanical things.......


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> I admire people who can fix mechanical things.......


Don't.
It's a curse.

This is the 2nd one I've gotten running in the last month. Drug my own 250 out from under my house about 3 1/2 weeks ago, where it had sat for over a year, then the Harvey flood put water over it, and I drug it out with the intention of hauling it off for scrap. Decided to try one time just to see if it would still turn over. Pulled the spark plug, kicked it and it rotated with no water shooting out the plug hole. Drained the water/oil out of the crankcase, squirted some gasoline directly into the carb opening and kicked it twice and it fired and ran for a second or 2. 

Then of course, I was bound by some directive from the unknown  to fix it up again and  went thru the carb and electric system, freed up the same cables I'm currently working on and have been riding it ever since, which is why my neighbor decided I could fix his, tho his is in way worse shape than mine was.
Mine looks like something out of Road Warrior, but it runs fine.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Dad-gum @greybeard sounds like ya would of been better off just assembling one from the ground up....if the parts were available....that's a bunch of work for sure....


----------



## greybeard

Just one bit at a time. 
I was a mechanic for most of my life, till I decided to become a machinist and then to return to my youthful roots and fancy & decided to seek fame & fortune in cattle. 


(The old adage is:
You know how to make $100,000 in cattle?
answer:
Start with $200,000)


----------



## Latestarter

Not sure GB... more technical work but less physical work involved... Would you have preferred to clear fence lines? Least that would have been out in the "fresh air" huh (and hot sun, and humidity)? Maybe you could have cleared the fence lines with your equipment... don't know. Glad your 4 wheeler wasn't a write off. Looks don't move it from place to place. 

Did you ever finish putting in the new culvert pipe back by the pond? So how is your health doing? Hopefully things are getting better for you. I wish I had a pond I could fish in. Not big on eating them but love catching them.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Not sure GB... more technical work but less physical work involved... Would you have preferred to clear fence lines? Least that would have been out in the "fresh air" huh (and hot sun, and humidity)? Maybe you could have cleared the fence lines with your equipment... don't know. Glad your 4 wheeler wasn't a write off. Looks don't move it from place to place.


I could have the fence cleared in less than a day, and piled it and then burned it all the next drizzling wet day so I didn't have to worry about the fire getting out. Most of it is tractor work with the landscape rake on the back, which I've done lots of times.



> Did you ever finish putting in the new culvert pipe back by the pond? So how is your health doing? Hopefully things are getting better for you. I wish I had a pond I could fish in. Not big on eating them but love catching them.


Nope, pipe is still sitting next to where it goes. Started to do it one day and blew a seal on the backhoe and it's going to be a physical rascal to get that big cylinder off, break the rod nut out so I can pull the piston and replace the seal.. so it has to wait till the doc oks me doing more physical work. Just this week got the ok to get back on my bicycle and can now do a little more, but won't get released back to 'full duty' until the 30th (next week) when they put me out again, and run that apparatus down my throat to peer inside my heart to make sure the tissue grew over the implanted device as it should. That will also be the end of me taking warfarin or any other strong blood thinner, but will still go back on anti-platelets for the rest of my life which I don't mind since they don't cause me any bleeding or bruising problems.

My next project tho, is going to be sitting on the bow of my vee hull boat with my weedeater/brush cutter blade while wife s-l-o-w-l-y pushes us along with the trolling motor from the back seat as I cut lily pad risers. (emphasis on slowly!!) Then, I can get the boat thru the open channel with a backpack sprayer on and spray some of the lilies on each side with Eraser AQ or another aquatic approved herbicide. Can only do a small section at a time otherwise the dead rotting vegetation will upset the O2 content in the pond and I'll have a fish kill.

I just do catch & release, (wife doesn't like fish and these aren't the kind of fish I'm supposed to eat anyway..they want me to eat salmon, tuna or some other omega3 oily type fish, but I do need someone to fish out a lot of the bass...way too many in there. Flood took most of the channel catfish but looks like the bass and crappie stayed ....if not increased their presence. My youngest son is supposed to bring a couple of his friends from work one weekend and do that..they're all big time bass fishermen, but I have to open some channels first.


----------



## Latestarter

Equipment maintenance and repair is an ongoing thing. Sorry about the piston seal blowing. Seems it's always something.

I understand channel cats are pretty prolific, so hopefully their numbers will increase well over time. Unless of course you continue to flood as you've been doing. In that case I'm guessing the numbers of everything will kinda stabilize out to what the river contains. Guess you decided to go ahead and let them do the implant. Sounds like it's "working" like it's supposed to do. I'm sure you'll be much happier once all the physical restrictions are lifted and you can get back to some semblance or normal.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> I wish I had a pond I could fish in. Not big on eating them but love catching them.


I love catching them and eating them as well if they are edible. We thought about making a small pond on our property but then would have to get DEC involved and get a permit all that stuff so we didn't.



greybeard said:


> but I do need someone to fish out a lot of the bass...way too many in there


I would do it if I live close to you.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Instead, I dragged out the chain saw and cut some low hanging limbs that were scratching me all to hell when I mowed.


That will be a "gift" that keeps on giving. I SHOULD cut the lowest branch off the ornamental cherry in the front but the chickens use it to get into the tree in the fall to eat the cherries. So I use the string trimmer under that part.



Latestarter said:


> But off course doing any kind of work in this weather means laundry piles up quick.


Hey, you live out in the boonies where no one can see you. Work in the buff, no clothes to wash!



greybeard said:


> and run that apparatus down my throat to peer inside my heart to make sure the tissue grew over the implanted device as it should.


I didn't know the inside of one's heart was accessible through the throat. How exactly does that work??



greybeard said:


> but I do need someone to fish out a lot of the bass...way too many in there.


A problem many would love to have. Hopefully your son and his friends can help you out.


----------



## CntryBoy777

There are arteries in the neck that run from the brain to the heart thru the throat....


----------



## Bruce

Ewwwww!

I took my camera out for barn close up time, hoping to get a picture of the one brave little chick that has twice decided to sleep on high roosts instead of in the brooder. The first night there was no other bird in area. Last night there was one. Tonight many of them seem to have decided they want the favored roost area back from the interloper and she was wandering. Several of the hens were getting feisty with each other and it was decided she would be safer in the brooder. So no picture. But I did take a picture of the aforementioned cherry tree since it is in bloom. The "offending" branch is the one on they lower right. I had DD2 mow today, apparently she chose not to duck at all, she usually gets more cut than I do, she's shorter and younger, more flexible


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## Wehner Homestead

The particular test is called a “tilt table” or TEE (transesophageal echocardiogram.) It’s a fancy way of saying they give you meds similar to a colonoscopy and do an ultrasound of the back side of your heart. It’s often used to look for clots.


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## greybeard

Wehner Homestead said:


> The particular test is called a “tilt table” or TEE (transesophageal echocardiogram.) It’s a fancy way of saying they give you meds similar to a colonoscopy and do an ultrasound of the back side of your heart. It’s often used to look for clots.


Yes, it's a TEE.
An ultrasound from the outside only shows part of your heart but the TEE shows them a lot more and better view of the LAA.
They will be looking for both clots and to see if the endocardial tissue is growing as it should over the device, and of course, to make sure the device stayed where it was implanted. If all goes well, I'll have another TEE in Sept or Oct, then just my annual visit to my regular cardiologist for the stress test.
I saw her today, just before my pre-op assesment/blood gathering/ekg etc and she agreed that I should be fine no longer taking Lasix (a diuretic to make me get rid of excess water), Losartan (for hi BP) or Metoprolol ( beta-blocker used to treat chest pain (angina), heart failure, and high blood pressure) all of which, due to low bp and heart rate,  I have been off of since the implant was done.
My resting bp has been running right around 100/50 with heart rate in the mid to upper 50s for the last 5 weeks, and in the 24 hrs right after the implant was lower than that, which last month caused the folks in recovery some concern and they wanted to keep me another day as the low rate kept making the alarm go off..but they let me go home after discussing it with my cardio angel.  (she's a champ, 100% professional, but knows me well, always asks about my cattle, and over a year ago gave me cell # and told me to call her direct if I ever had any heart issues, instead of going thru her dept service.) 

I'm one of those people that can affect the upper # of my BP at will most of the time, within just a couple of minutes, the lower #, not quite as easily. I had told her that one time, as she got thru taking my BP and she didn't believe me. I told her, just leave the cuff on, then explained my twin could do the same thing, and we said a few more things and I said "OK, check it again" and it had dropped from 110/62 to 96/60.  A few minutes later, I dropped it to 90/55, and then, after a little thought,  raised it to 128/73, just sitting there talking, and  all within 15 minutes, maybe just ten minutes.

"_How did you do that?"
"It's, hard to explain..."
"Well, I have other patients to see but next time you come in, we're going to talk about this some._"

She already knew I did the same with chronic pain. I just concentrate as soon as I wake up, and mentally put it somewhere I never go. (I have bad discs in my lower back, worn out shoulder sockets,  and damaged tissue in my left calf from a snake bite and of course, the vein harvest for my cabg from the same calf the snake bite caused so much swelling in)
(I cannot do it with instant/unexpected pain, such as a wasp sting, a burn, or electric shock..in early Sept, 2015, I inadvertently drilled an 1/8" hole completely thru my left index finger, fingernail and out the underside..it hurt..worst part was having to put the drill in reverse and backing the bit out.)
I did get some morphine the night after my quad bypass because what they had to do with my ribcage , but I absolutely hated the morphine..it doesn't take pain away, it just makes you not give a crap that it's there. That was the last time I tried any pain meds. 

The mind is a wonderful thing and can be trained to do a lot of things.
I never take any pain medication, tho I've been offered it many times from doctors. It drives my wife nuts.


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## mystang89

Pain is 10% physical and 90% mental. It's really amazing what you can push away simply by not thinking about it.

That said, as I get older that ratio seems to want to tilt more physical lol.


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## greybeard

mystang89 said:


> Pain is 10% physical and 90% mental.
> 
> That said, as I get older that ratio seems to want to tilt more physical lol.



Opposite observation than I have, and I'm lot closer to 70 than I am 60.


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## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> Hey, you live out in the boonies where no one can see you. Work in the buff, no clothes to wash


 Ummm I already have poison ivy/oak issues, not to mention the mosquitoes... and the post talked about cutting down limbs that scratch the heck out of me... There is no way I'm working around this place au natural. I have more sense than that! No problem stripping all the nasty clothes off outside and hosing off before coming in though.


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## Bruce

Oh yeah, poison plants and skeeters, I forgot. I think you should be out working in your bee keeper suit!


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## Latestarter




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## CntryBoy777

Wasps, chiggers, and Fahr ants are a concern along with the Burn of the sun!!......


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## Mike CHS

I'll chime in to say I despise seed ticks.  They are awful this year.


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## Baymule

I haven't seen seed ticks in many, many years. I attribute that to Fahr Aints.


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## Wehner Homestead

Mike CHS said:


> I'll chime in to say I despise seed ticks.  They are awful this year.



Found a seed tick on DS last week. Bit him four times. Took him to the dr today for congestion/drainage and mentioned the tick bites that still look bad. He put him on an antibiotic that covers the pneumonia/bronchitis that was starting and Lyme disease since we aren’t sure how long it was on him (could have been almost 24 hours.) NOT a fan of ticks!!


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## Latestarter

Ticks are supposedly real bad here but I think I've seen a total of 3 in the time I've lived here.   Not complaining mind you... But the mosquitoes, deer flies, horse flies, fire ants, hornets and red wasps are a constant issue.


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## Latestarter

So I'm sitting here listening to the occasional very loud blast of thunder to my N-NE. Over the past several days, I've had storms all around me but no rain here... Just a few scattered drips/drops. Seems this one will miss me as well. Just checked the radar and it seems to be lining up north-south, just to the east of me.  I'm all out of goat milk and the goats are on milk withdrawal for worming... I think tomorrow I'm going to give all but the youngest their CD&T booster (a few days early of 5 weeks) and then band the boys to be banded.


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## Wehner Homestead

Latestarter said:


> Ticks are supposedly real bad here but I think I've seen a total of 3 in the time I've lived here.   Not complaining mind you... But the mosquitoes, deer flies, horse flies, fire ants, hornets and red wasps are a constant issue.



I don’t think you’ve been in Texas long enough. I don’t even live there and even I know that they are Fahr ants!!!


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## Bruce

Tsk tsk @Wehner Homestead, they aren't fahr ants, they are fahr aints! I've been schooled 

Sorry you aren't getting rain Joe. Seems just like winter, some get no precipitation and others get way too much.


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## greybeard

We've been getting a little rain shower every day for about a week. Big storm just skirted us, wind picked up strong here and lightening off in the distance but just a little bit of rain at my abode.
Perfect for me.

I've never seen an instance of just one or 2 seed ticks. It was either none or hundreds.
For about 20 years or more, it's been none. Like Baymule, I'm pretty sure the seed ticks were destroyed by the fire ants and of course, the stock law and end to open range also played a part in their demise.
I'll take the fire ants over the seed ticks every time.
(seed ticks are just the larval growth stage of regular ticks..if you have lots of seed ticks, you are going to have lots of the bigger regular ticks soon)
Anything bigger than this, and they are either un-fed regular ticks or the nymph stage of regular ticks.





I haven't seen or experienced them in years, but I remember this type coverage well.


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## Bruce

I think it is time to renew your fingernail polish there @greybeard.


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## greybeard

Those  fingers way too clean,  un-calloused and unscarred to be mine.


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## Wehner Homestead

@Latestarter nothing since Sat. All good there??


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## Bruce

Maybe he doesn't want to get out of the hot tub.


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## greybeard

he posted late last night in a random rambling thread..actually, early this morning..
https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/for-joe-and-mike.37980/#post-553791


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## Wehner Homestead

He liked my post!


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## Latestarter

Sometimes I feel I'm a bit too verbose. Sometimes I ramble too much, possibly to distraction. There are times when I just don't have anything (nice/complimentary) worth putting to font. Occasionally, I just haven't had the time or inclination to sit in front of the computer so I'll read through as much as I can to try and stay caught up. My knee kinda locks up when I sit here for any length, as does my back. Right here, right now, tonight, I took a pain killer as my knee has been really complaining the past few days and right now it's not too bad (pain killer working).

Now WH, you know that I like almost ALL of your posts!   Who could not? 

The goats have been without hay for several days. Payday is tomorrow and where I buy my hay is cash. I pay for just about everything with a credit card and then pay max against the balance each month, so I don't normally have cash available unless I plan for it. This past batch of alfalfa went up in price, which he didn't tell me till 1/2 way through loading it so I got 2 bales less than normal. Even with all the fresh pasture, the goats still killed a bale about every other day. Feel bad that they don't have their hay, but damn... they get pellets twice a day and between the 7 adults and the 10 kids, I'm going through a 50 pound bag of feed about every three days.   I cut them down tree limbs for leaves a couple of times a week, and they have over an acre presently to graze and browse in. They actually appear to be putting some weight back on.  But they are being picky eaters and once again, I'm going to have to mow in there before it gets too out of control. The problem now is we are so dry and even at max height, if I mow, it's probably going to send everything dormant on me.   The grasses that seem to be doing the best with lack of water also seem to be the grasses they don't want to eat   Silly goats!

Time for the CD&T booster for 9 (oldest) of the kids and especially the 2 wethers that are leaving this weekend. The local TSC has been out for several weeks and were still out today so I drove over to Winnsboro (~25 miles) as they said they had some when I called them. So I get there and sure enough, they have some... but they can't sell it. Someone unplugged the refer and they have no idea how long it had been unplugged and the interior was room temp when they found it. 
Why the hell didn't they tell me this before I drove there?  So I called the Sulpher Springs store from the parking lot and they had some. So I drove there (another 25 miles) all for a 10 dose vile that cost $7.29...   And I notice gas is back up to $2.75+/gallon... So I guess it cost me $25.00 in gas for that as well as the three hours in driving. Fricken goats are expensive critters! 

Since the goats are on Ivermectin withdrawal and I can't use the milk, while I was over in Winnsboro, I swung by the Jersey Girl dairy and picked up a couple of gallons of fresh raw milk there.  Last year when I switched over to goats milk, I had "loose stool" as long as I was drinking just that. This year no issue and since I've switched back to (store bought) cows milk, I once again have loose stool...  Guess my system can't make up it's mind what it will tolerate. Sucks because I LOVE milk! TMI?    Zero intention of giving it up regardless.

So got back home and it was getting dusk. I decided to do the 2nd worming for the adults (due yesterday) and the CD&T for just the 2 wethers. Got that all accomplished. Will give the other kids their CD&T booster tomorrow or Saturday.

It's bleeding HOT out there... and this morning I found 5 eggs and 2 dead hens  So I'm now down to one chicken... I'm guessing a couple of the eggs must have been buried under the pine shavings and they uncovered them before the 2 died. Glad they at least left an egg before departing. So now I either have to deal with a single chicken or try to find a couple more and go through introductions... I didn't bother opening them up to find out why. One was normal weight and the other was pretty light. They had food, so not sure why she was as light as she was. 

Mel has a small bald patch on the side of his neck. He's been "preening" it with his dew claw and of course with all the spit in his fur there he ends up with mud balls in his fur. I used my hair clippers and cleared away some fur around it so I could see what was going on and it almost looks like a poison ivy patch. I washed it down with dawn and clorox then rinsed and covered with triple antibiotic. Of course he kept after it so it's spread in a line up to just below his ear now. He does NOT like being wet/getting washed/getting rinsed/wet paws/any of that... Last night I dosed the whole area liberally with blukote (fungicide/antibacterial) and you can only imagine the mess that made on him and I both!   This morning it was still wet and of course he wants to rub up against me... 

He's really a PITA and baby about it and it's a struggle to get him, hold him, and do the cleaning. If I even look like I'm headed toward or near a hose, he will not come to me or let me get near him.  He's been out with the goats now since yesterday at dinner time. I didn't bring him to the house today at all. I think his inside days are pretty much over. I need him to start really earning his keep in the job I "hired" him for. Having seen that pair of coyotes and them not seeming scared as they passed through my back pasture has me really worried/nervous. I need that LGD.

As a younger man, I thought a quarter million would stretch a long way. Today, just sitting here musing, I could spend twice that amount in short order and still not have everything done here that I'd like done.


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## Baymule

As a young man, a quarter million was BIG money. Now......it will buy your a tract house in a subdivision that looks like all the others. We are buying hay as our hay guy told us that with no rain, they don't have enough for their own cows and we'd better get some nailed down. If we go into a drought, hay will be scarce and the price will shoot to the moon. They are going to haul it for us.

Now you need some more hens. It sucks that you lost two of them.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Mel has a small bald patch on the side of his neck. He's been "preening" it with his dew claw and of course with all the spit in his fur there he ends up with mud balls in his fur. I used my hair clippers and cleared away some fur around it so I could see what was going on and it almost looks like a poison ivy patch. I washed it down with dawn and clorox then rinsed and covered with triple antibiotic.


I do not know if it would be right for whatever is wrong with Mel, but one of my dogs came down with a bald spot or 2 every year when it turned hot. I got a solution from the vet, that was sulfur based, and smelled like it as well. It always cleared the problem up within a few days and kept it from spreading. BUT, since your's spends time indoors, it might be a problem with both the odor and the yellow staining...


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## Latestarter

Was the solution a prescription GB? Do you have any idea what it actually is/was? He's gonna be pretty much a full time outdoor pooch from this point forward. I never even thought of or considered a sulfur based treatment...


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Was the solution a prescription GB? Do you have any idea what it actually is/was? He's gonna be pretty much a full time outdoor pooch from this point forward. I never even thought of or considered a sulfur based treatment...


I don't think it was prescription but I did get it directly from the vet. The label does say "Federal law restricts this drug to be used by or on order of a licensed veterinarian" but pretty sure it can be bought OTC.

Instructions say to give the animal a shampoo with your regular doggie shampoo, then rinse well , then mix 4oz of the concentrate in 1 gal of water and work the mixture into the dog's coat well and allow it to dry on the dog...don't dry it with a towel. Also says it may stain light colored dog's hair a yellow tinge..temporarily. (my dog was black)

It's this product:
http://www.shopping.com/Dermapet-Li...ime-Sulfur-Concentrate-4oz-Dermapet/info?sb=1





I bought it in the 16oz bottle.
I originally thought mine had what we used to call 'hot spots' but the vet said it was not. You might want to ask your own vet before using this product.

(it smells all to be danged..I can tell you that and you definitely want to wear disposable  rubber gloves when bathing a dog in it, and get the heck away as soon as you are done so he don't shake it all over you..you'll stink for a week.)


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## mystang89

Mine had the same thing. The vet said that it was like microscopic mites and a good way to tell if that was the problem was to take the inside of the dogs eat and scratch it a bit. If the dog acted like you got an itchy spot then that's now than likely what the problem was. They have her a bath in that stuff a few times. My dog is white but after those baths it was a yellow dog and smelled of sulphur but no more baldness.


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## Mini Horses

Look in horse grooming area -- Shapleys MTG -- it's a sulfer based Ointment.  Yep smells but works.  I've used it on horses for years...and many other animals.   LOL


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## RollingAcres

Sorry you loss 2 hens LS.


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## RollingAcres

$2.75/gal for gas? $3.05/gal here!


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## farmerjan

We seesaw between $2.57 and 2.69 most places,  for regular gas.  Diesel is constantly creeping up....gonna make Haying season that much more expensive.....up to $3.05 to 3.35 here.


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## Mike CHS

It's pretty similar here, I filled up this afternoon for $2.59.  Diesel price is just silly but I don't use as much as I used to.


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## CntryBoy777

We have $2.53/gal here, but haven't checked the fuel prices lately....I did pump some non-ethanol for $2.95/gal just the other day......sure glad that I'm not burning the fuel these days...I got out at $2.50/gal cause I was going broke....


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## mystang89

CntryBoy777 said:


> We have $2.53/gal here





farmerjan said:


> We seesaw between $2.57 and 2.69 most places





Mike CHS said:


> I filled up this afternoon for $2.59



.....I have nothing nice to say


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## Latestarter

Got the 7 kids their CD&T booster this evening. Boy were they some unhappy campers. Only one more booster to do for CC's baby girl. Still haven't named her  In reality I've only named 3 of the 5 new doelings; Double Stuff (DS), Champagne (Champ), and Beauty. The all black one I've been calling Blacky, and then CC's I have no idea...  She has (almost) peanut butter colored stripes on her face so I'm thinking something along those lines... Maybe "PBJ" for peanut butter jaw? The wether to replace Moose is Frost as his hair has frosted tips. I've been calling Dot's boys Beast and Slick. Beast is the largest kid w/Slick pulling up a close second. Neither are banded (yet) but if they don't sell within the next say 3 weeks, it's gonna happen. Had quite the work out catching them, flipping them, and holding them to give them the booster shot.  If I could register either of them, I might have considered keeping Beast to replace RJ as his scurs have gotten very bad. 

The wethers Henry and Bobby will be headed to their new home tomorrow mid morning. I bought them collars, checked to make sure no scurs coming in, ball sacks are drying out and shriveling up nicely. I hope they turn out to be real nice wethers for the buyer.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> If I even look like I'm headed toward or near a hose, he will not come to me or let me get near him.


He doesn't want you to wash the "Eau du chèvre" off him!



mystang89 said:


> .....I have nothing nice to say


Me too!! Regular tainted (10% ethanol) gas at the cheaper stations is $2.96.


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## Mini Horses

Yep, scurs....So, if they are large enough, consider banding them.  ?   this little one I bought a month or so ago is starting to have them.  Darn, I wish not but, there they are!   He had some sizeable marks from the dehorning but, they didn't get along one edge.  Just checked them today as I put him into his new field.    Oh, don't feel badly, I haven't named mine!  He "has" a name for registry but, that's not what I wanted.   Oddly, since the mature buck is in the field next to this one now, I realized I have a black one & a white one.   Black is registered as something Boaz....I call him Bo or Mr B...This one?  Poor guy.  He's really a sweetie.  Shortly he will have the  buckling babes from this year join him.  Plenty of room & pasture.

Used to spend a lot of time naming horses  & donkeys -- poor goats, not so much.   I did name one little doeling "Peanut".   She's the trip that is a bottle baby.  Mom does everything but let her nurse!    So, milk & feed.   I need to do better with goat names!

At home all day and if it could go wrong, it probably did.  Mower wouldn't start, jumped it and worked a while -- drive belt broke!  Ended the mowing.  BUT I had a belt that I had bought last yr on close out -- 9.97 for 39.97 belt   Got that rascal out, left mower to cool.  Reveled in my good fortune for price & "in stock" at home!   Also have new blades at ready -- bought, couldn't find them (last yr)  bought more, then found.  I'm sure I will need them soon.    Actually helps with cash flow right now.

CDT -- yeah, time for mine to get theirs...the kids, that is...mom's ok.  Have vaccine & needles, guess while I'm off on Sunday I should do that!  I see a hussle day for that task.  I can do the shots quickly but, penning all to catch will be the fun part.

After a couple weeks of rain, we had a HOT day of sunshine.  91 & melting.  But washed sheets and on line dried...smells so nice.  I'm ready to use them!


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## Latestarter

Maybe when my son gets here later this month I'll hog tie RJ and do some serious scur work on him. I'd ask Devonviolet's husband to help but he's got ten years on me and RJ is a pretty powerful buck. No offense intended to her DH, but I'd hate to have him get hurt trying to help me. I could get RJ down (and have), or even tie him off to a post or tree, but no way to control him and work on him at the same time.


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## Mini Horses

My adult buck is about 200# (Nubian, mini no less)  Tame but not always as cooperative as I need.   So, I hook a lead line on his collar and tie him at a board fence.  Then, use a wide tie down strap -- like you see truckers use on loads -- hook that to the fence & wrap him once on midsection, just in front of back legs, tie to fence.    He then stands nicely.     He is already tame but, not always willing to stand WHERE I need him.  When he's hooked front & rear he becomes docile.   Trim hooves this way mostly but, if I need to do something else. it works.

I do have some 8' long fence panels  that I can connect like a chute but, this tie method stops them from jumping up, also.  Doesn't hurt them in any way just adds another restraint at the other end.  The 4-6" wide tie down doesn't hurt them.   You could do the same with a sheet, folded lengthwise....tie them.


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## Latestarter

I would guess that RJ is in the 160-180 range and still growing. He's only just a year old. His sire was well north of 250#. I can clip his collar to the fence and he stands for hoof trims. I can grab him by his lower jaw with thumb inside and head between my arm and side to give him stuff orally and he stands nice and still. He's really a very friendly fella and follows me around basically in heel position and wants to be right at my side. He tries to rub his face on me and I stop him. Then he wants to rub his forehead on me and I stop that. I push him past me so I can scratch his neck and withers, his side and his hips. He likes all that attention.

I've worked on his one scur before and it drew blood and he screamed bloody murder and I had to stop before I could finish because he kept whipping/turning his head around to where I couldn't continue the cuts I'd started. What I did accomplish solved that immediate problem as that scur was pressing his head above his eye. I cut through enough to relieve the pressure and the horn tip curled further around and is now pressing back against itself. The other is now the problem as it's more like a full horn as opposed to a scur and it curves back, across, and down, and is pressing against his neck. Like almost pointed directly in toward the neck and growing/pressing.

When I grab him by that horn, I can feel the heat from the blood inside it and that heat reaches well past the 1/2 way point. I'd have to get his head stationary enough to cut/grind a couple of notches at the very base to hold the band in place. Or, hold him long enough to cut through at least a portion of the horn tip/end to get it off his neck. Or most likely both...


----------



## Mini Horses

My young one is about 5 months and was a bottle baby, tame.   At this time his scurs feel like some little scruffs of concrete and are on the outer edge of the horn bud area, which makes me hope it will only be some surface growth which will be rubbed off as they scuffle.   I've had this with a doe some time back and every once in a while I'd see a little bloody spot...not deep and we were good for another yr.    It was almost like a tall scab.  Tomorrow I will check it out with more intensity.  It sounds like RJ has a much larger area going on.   I have not tried the banding method but it is a method and some farms have felt it worked well.

It's kind of sad when we buy these boys, really LIKE them, their personality and their kids, then realize we have to sell because too many of their girls were kept.  It's partly why I bought this one  (I have GOT to name him!  Nothing fits yet)   and partly because I really like the Saanens I have -- who are 50/50 nub.  He is FB Saanen and will give me those genetics.  Yep, one breed drop ears & one not but, mostly that comes out one or the other on the kids--the Saanen breeds strong to their lineage, even mixed. 

My mini nubs only breeding back as same thing.  I sell most & those are all registered(able).  This year I got twin doelings from one, so will register those & decide to sell or not in Spring.   There is farm not far with reg mini nubs -- may use a buck breeding, will have 5 does for that.  Don't want to buy another buck!  May be able to "trade" service with my reg mini nub buck.   Would love to trade services.  Mine is from a well respected farm & throws lovely kids.

Tomorrow I'm off work and will switch out the broken drive belt on mower to finish my yard.... and play farmer, give goat kids shots and whatever else.


----------



## Latestarter

My buyer has already been here and left with Henry and Bobby. She seemed very happy and pleased and catching the boys up was no huge effort although they weren't too happy once caught...  She said she's looking forward to providing them as companions for her other goat Winchester as he was obviously getting lonely... She said he's been trying to befriend a deer   Now if I can just sell the 2 bucklings, I'll be thrilled!   Gonna need to hit TSC later today as I need more goat feed.


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## Mike CHS

Congrats on the sales!!!


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## Latestarter

So I had to climb under the bushes to where Mel hides in the hole he's dug to try and clean up his neck. I brought my clippers using an extension cord and a big bowl of hot water with dawn and bleach. I was finally able to get the fur around the area clean enough to actually clip it close/bare. The raw patch extends from the base of his earlobe down into his neck and around to his throat. I got the whole area exposed and just got back from TSC with the following two items:








I used the M-T-G first as it's an oily sulfur based product, then sprayed over top with the other stuff. Now we'll do that twice a day and monitor and see what happens. If I don't see improvement by mid week, it's off to the vet.

Also got another 5 bags of goat feed. All totaled another quick hunert dolla down the drain...


----------



## Mini Horses

Now just be thankful you are not feeding COWS for that "free milk"  

Because you didn't know exactly what started the skin problems and sulfer does help I suggested the MTG.  Stinks, works, less costly than some, esp in small size.   ALSO...for many skin issues the old gold Listerine works well.  Antibacterial and antifungal.  Just a mention.   I remember once when my DIL showed me a horrid spot about silver dollar size on a cat & ask how to tend it.   I looked, then asked if she had any Listerine.  Got a really quizzical look -- like "bad breath?" -- then I said put it on there2X a day!   Still didn't believe but she did do it.  Couple days later called to tell me it was healing and cat had stopped scratching it.....a week later, healed. and hair coming in.   It's a good product.

And for human joint issues, the horse linament (absorbine) works well on your joints, too.  Jeffers also carries a linament with arnica and something else......good product.

The Fish products sold have no RX and are same as human.  They have sulfer drugs, same as Trimeth, etc. I use a couple days of the Trimeth for any kid with cocci.  Done. Stops.  I am NOT a vet and don't pretend to be but, have had many discussions with my vet and these are things we have come to rely upon. We have spent 30 yrs learning together. I cannot have a several hundred $$ bill for what are often "normal" issues.  A phone call and instructions sure help save.   When I need a vet, I am happy to pay their worth. When it is not an emergency, he is happy to not have to come out helps via phone.  LOL


----------



## Baymule

LS, the ram I had, had scurs. One kept growing against his skull. I cut the tip off with PVC cutters. The PVC cutter worked real good on the hard horn.


----------



## Baymule

@Latestarter I found you a girl friend for Mel

https://easttexas.craigslist.org/grd/d/anatolian-shepherd/6606262115.html


----------



## greybeard

Does no one use OB (saw) to cut the tips of goat horn?

On cattle that I want to dehorn with bands, but had trouble keeping the bands from rolling off, I've applied the band, then tightly tied a couple of rings of sisal string (hay string) just above the band and duct taped the sisal in place. Just cut the ends of the string off tight against the knots. The 1st time the sisal gets wet and dries, it will shrink and stay in place, keeping the band in place too.


----------



## Mini Horses

Greybeard -- obviously you have done this   What has been your overall experience with it?  Does the horn regrow? Is there an age when this works best?  i.e youngsters vs adult, etc.

I've read some reports and most are positive for results but trust your input vs an unknown on utube.

I've seen cattle with horns cut and assume this is taking off above blood line...I am sure you would have info.


----------



## Mini Horses

Bay -- I love that dog!   The Anatolians are so lovely with the dark muzzles. If not in TX I would inquire about her.  And I don't have the predator issues that truly require an LGD.


LS  -- how is Elf?


----------



## Baymule

I love her too! But I don't need a third LGD.....Joe needs her!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Wonder how those pups of @goatgurl are doing now? Haven't heard from her lately.....


----------



## Pastor Dave

Mini Horses said:


> I am NOT a vet and don't pretend to be but, have had many discussions with my vet and these are things we have come to rely upon. We have spent 30 yrs learning together. I cannot have a several hundred $$ bill for what are often "normal" issues.  A phone call and instructions sure help save.   When I need a vet, I am happy to pay their worth. When it is not an emergency, he is happy to not have to come out helps via phone.  LOL



Good Vet.    Real good veterinarian/patient relationship!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

greybeard said:


> Does no one use OB (saw) to cut the tips of goat horn?



This is what we use. I really like it, great tool to have on hand. 
It generally cauterizes the horn too, if only taking off the tip.


----------



## Bruce

Sorry about RJ's scur, sure sounds like a big PITA.

Nice looking Anatolian, nearby and only $1!!!  I wonder how much they actually want for her.


----------



## Baymule

Joe did you call on the Anatolian? The post has been taken down. Not surprised, that is one nice dog!


----------



## Latestarter

Well, just ordered the OB handles and saw wire from ValleyVet. Went to JeffersPet first but their handles were on back order.  

No, I didn't contact them about the dog. Yes, she was a beautiful animal. There was no # provided (that I saw) so would have had to contact through CL message. I can't imagine they were giving her away and I don't have $$ right now to get another dog. I still haven't gotten Elf settled in as he continues to charge at the goats through the fence, growling, barking, and snapping at them. My son will be coming in ~3 weeks with his 2 dogs, both of which also have high prey drives and I just don't need the potential issues and hassles right now. 

Mel is now out in the pasture 24/7, but he doesn't stay with the goats full time. For the most part he just goes off by himself and finds a shady/favorite spot and hangs out. If he starts barking though, they all make a bee line for the holding/night pen.

I'm sitting here typing and I listen to music while doing so. I listen to whole albums using Windows media player. I just started humming a tune and looked up and realized I've finished one album and am 1/2 through the next  It's amazing how fast time goes by and I don't recall hearing virtually any of the songs between starting and when I noticed just now.


----------



## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> Greybeard -- obviously you have done this   What has been your overall experience with it?  Does the horn regrow? Is there an age when this works best?  i.e youngsters vs adult, etc.
> 
> I've read some reports and most are positive for results but trust your input vs an unknown on utube.
> 
> I've seen cattle with horns cut and assume this is taking off above blood line...I am sure you would have info.


Regarding banding horns;
I've done the banding both above the bloodline (blunting the ends off) and done it down at the hair line to completely dehorn adult cattle and calves. In neither case, have I ever seen any bleeding like you would see with mechanical (saw wire, saw, Barnes, Keystone, guillitine, convex cutter.. ) dehorning of the whole horn.

Saw wire, you will see bleeding if you get below the dead area but from my expereince, not nearly as bad if using one of the early methods...the odor is the worst part.  On a large horn, that saw wire will wear your arms out on an older animal. Mine are well used. Blood is pretty corrosive, as you can see.



 

I helped with dehorning goats and a few rams at the place I worked part time in West Texas & we first saw wired a little groove for the band to sit it. It doesn't take a deep groove, or even have to go all the way around..just stay out of the more sensitive material.
We taped the bands as well, even with the groove.  I wasn't there when they did this part but it's my understanding, some of the goats oozed blood when the horn did come off and they had to pull a bleeder out( blood vessel)  and if they did not, scurs would grow.

The younger, the better when it comes to dehorning any animal IMO.

Of all the things I've had to do to any animal, I hate dehorning the most and I'm not 100% convinced that dehorning by banding is completely painless.

I just sold my last horned cow. She was a sweetheart, docile as a puppy, a great momma, fantastic udder, good feet and legs,  and never gave me one bit of trouble, but at my age, I just didn't want a horned cow around any more, and to be honest, I didn't have the heart to put her thru dehorning. Other than horns, she was among the best cows I've ever had, never even gave me a bad look, but she would use them horns on the others at the feed bunk.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Mel is now out in the pasture 24/7, but he doesn't stay with the goats full time. For the most part he just goes off by himself and finds a shady/favorite spot and hangs out. If he starts barking though, they all make a bee line for the holding/night pen.


He may be off in the shade but he is watching, even if his eyes are closed. Sounds like the goats know what to do when the alarm sounds though. That is good, don't want Mel having to figure out where to go to protect the goats.


----------



## Baymule

When the time is right, the right dog will come along. Mel  sounds like he is stepping up to being a good guardian. He may not bond to the goats, but he will still protect them as part of HIS territory.


----------



## Latestarter

So I heard (felt?) the storm approaching a little after 4am. Went out and let Mel up from the pasture to come in the house. He and Elf joined me snoozing in the bedroom until just now. They are both normally outside overnight. The rain started shortly after I let them in. The thunder is continuous right now... I mean just that, non stop. No idea how much rain, but it doesn't seem like a "lot". There are some small puddles outside but nothing serious and none of the typical "flooding" I see when it rains hard and long. It's not pouring, but steady. I'll take it and be happy! Seems like the plants are sucking it up as it comes down. I see lighter sky approaching from the NW, so the goats should be a lot happier soon... They'll be able to (willing to) come out of the shelter and I'll be able to go down and feed them their morning pellets. Mel has exactly zero interest in going out of the house right now. Elf wanted out (and is out) but I think that's only because he normally gets his breakfast now when I get up to do morning animal chores.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> No idea how much rain, but it doesn't seem like a "lot". There are some small puddles outside but nothing serious and none of the typical "flooding" I see when it rains hard and long. It's not pouring, but steady. I'll take it and be happy!


Not sure if Bay has gotten any rain lately. But if she hasn't, she'd be SO jealous of your rain!


----------



## Baymule

I could see it on the radar.......the drops we got were so few and far between that it was a drop splatter in the dust here, one over there, another one over yonder......glad somebody got rain, but it sure wasn't us!


----------



## Latestarter

Only turned out to be about 1/2 inch total... not much but at least it was over a period of time so it had a chance to sink in and not just run off. My ground cover looks much greener as of late today.


----------



## greybeard

2 nights ago, we had a 'severe Tstorm' advisory, warning of 60 mph winds, quarter sized hail, as much as 5 inches of rain over the next couple of hours and after all the trouble of squeezing my wife's car into the shop, all we got was a northerly breeze, a little thunder and about 1/4" of rain.


----------



## Mini Horses

So far this year my area is about 7"above norm.   It's been good rains though -- light showers mostly, the kind that soak in and don't destroy the new plants in the gardens.  However they have been several days in a row and the overcast cloud cover is depressing that long.   Sunshine today and next few, rain again Sunday evening.  It's good -- I love a clean pasture and it's sure growing well.   Just hope mid summer doesn't bring the dreaded "drought & high temps" we can have.    Like LS, I'm having to cut my fields.

Does that mean we both need to buy more grazers?     NOPE.   The cost of gas to mow is far less than the cost of hay in winter.  I have proof.


----------



## farmerjan

You don't keep the "additional graziers" through the winter.  You buy them thin, put the extra grass into them, then sell when it gets drier, or you need some money, or fall comes and you don't want to supplement.  If you bought some that were thin, and could get them at a decent price, they ought to put on weight and even if selling for the same price per pound, you will gain in the added income from the added weight.  And no "mowing time" or gas involved....


----------



## Latestarter

Gosh... it just sounds so simple!


----------



## Bruce

Apparently easy as pie!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Gosh... it just sounds so simple!


It is. Unless you make the mistake of buying fleshy cattle because they look so good....they won't put on much fat weight and will do it at a slower rate than thin cattle will.. You just got to know when to sit on your hands and keep your mouth shut. 

Timing, is important too. 

I just don't believe in cutting down cow feed. 
I have a 4', and a 6' mower. Haven't hooked on to either in about 4 years and probably never will again. Only thing I mow is my yard.


----------



## Mini Horses

In my area there is virtually NO market to sell a cow/calf without hauling it a good distance.   My horse trailers are built for mini horses, so not as tall, only 5' interior height.   The cow/calf would have to stay long enough to butcher.  Then, hire to haul.  Depending on breed, they may fit...not want to go in if tight.   

I agree with the "no mow, feed it live" theory.  Just not set up for the larger sized  now.   Yeah, could get one to butcher but several to any market -- nope.  

Goats or sheep, I could do!   Those are not "oversized" for me.  Yep, often consider buying some for butcher.  Don't want to buy at auction and possibly expose my healthy herd to issues.   Have looked at a couple small farms or backyard "pet" owners just wanting to sell lambs & may still buy two JUST for feed out & butcher, only for self.  Prices are a consideration.  At least I am already fenced!!!


----------



## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> Have looked at a couple small farms or backyard "pet" owners just wanting to sell lambs & may still buy two JUST for feed out & butcher, only for self.


Don't tell the sellers what you plan to do with them.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Exactly what Bruce said! Some will wig out on you!!


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so I have stayed up till 4-5am the past couple of nights. Combination of dozing during the day cause my knee isn't working right and watching YouTube videos all night on the recent volcanoes (Hawaii & Guatemala) and then that naturally leads to earth quakes, and tsunamis and landslides... you get the idea I'm sure.

So here... for your listening (&watching) pleasure: 



   What, not what you expected?

Got my OB wire and handles in the mail yesterday. Figured I'd better give them a shot as the scur was directly rubbing a raw spot in the back of RJ's neck. I could tell it was bothering him because he kept tossing his head around trying to relieve the pressure. I must confess the handles were about 20% of the size I expected (pictures can be very misleading), as they weren't even as large as a magic marker.  They basically unscrew in 1/2, the wire goes in the slot, then you tighten the handle back down to hold the wire. Doesn't work worth a $hit... put tension on the wire and it slips right through the handle and I had to start over. Meanwhile, RJ is clipped and tied to the gate and not happy about being restrained.

Long story short, once I fanagled it to get the wire held enough that I could keep it from sliding (too much) I started cutting off the main scur. As soon as that wire started really cutting (under pressure/tension on the horn), he settled right down and stood nice and still so I could finish. At that point, the tie down strap had fallen off his head/face and it was just the collar clip holding him to the fence. I was pretty happy about how he handled it. Still not happy about the handles though. I can't imagine how someone would use those little things to do a cow.  Anyway, I picked a good spot and drew no blood. I think I took off about 4". Of course when it grows back out further, I'll have to do it again. That wire gets right fricken hot! He has a dime sized raw spot on his neck from the scur. I put some antiseptic blood stop powder on it. When I released him, he walked off a bit and shook his head a little, kinda to gauge the new weight distribution and lack of pain, then reached up with a rear hoof to touch/scratch the raw spot gently, then came up for some scratches and petting. He's a good boy (most of the time).

I also removed the top portion off the other scur as he had broken it and it was loose. So both dogs got some horn to chew on. Speaking of dogs, I've been lathering up Mel twice a day with the sulfur oil in the irritated area. It continued to spread a bit, but I think it's stopped now as I extended the oil coverage outside the actual affected area. Seems to be healing back up. Sure makes him a mess though as he has a tunnel dug 1/2 way to China out under the oak tree in the middle of the pasture. When he lays in it you can't even see him anymore. That dark brown dirt has his white coat all stained and clumped up around the rash area.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I can't imagine how someone would use those little things to do a cow.


As I said, it will wear your arms out. The heated up wire is what causes the odor I spoke of. I figured you could gauge the size of the handles from the picture I posted atop my printer..
(I've also used that saw wire for other cutting jobs as well...like cutting off a piece of copper tubing I couldn't get to easy and even cutting some nails off I couldn't get my sawzall blade into. I hope never to have to use them for any OB work tho)


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like ya are fairing fairly well despite the troubles Joe....ya got some much needed rain....pucked the right spot to saw, got the scurs taken care of....and have Mel on the mend.....hope the knee eases up for ya and ya can get some much needed rest. It won't be long before your visitors will arrive to give ya some assistance.....


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## Baymule

Joe if you have a place to store hay, you might want to stock up. NOW. We bought 30 round bales after our regular hay guy told us to go find some and to do it right away. It is dry with no relief in sight and there might not be another cutting. There are lots of square bales still for sale, but the price will get stupid once there is no more hay.


----------



## Mike CHS

Mini Horses said:


> Goats or sheep, I could do!   Those are not "oversized" for me.  Yep, often consider buying some for butcher.  Don't want to buy at auction and possibly expose my healthy herd to issues.   Have looked at a couple small farms or backyard "pet" owners just wanting to sell lambs & may still buy two JUST for feed out & butcher, only for self.  Prices are a consideration.  At least I am already fenced!!!



We know a bunch of small holders like ourselves and they expect some of their sales to be going to the freezer.  You can't afford to have as many as we do and hang on to them with our relatively small acreage.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@Latestarter
Calving OB handles are so much better. Our vet recommended this to us.
Definitely worth the extra $.

Here is a screenshot of an old post
Shows the handles


----------



## Goat Whisperer




----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Joe if you have a place to store hay, you might want to stock up. NOW. We bought 30 round bales after our regular hay guy told us to go find some and to do it right away. It is dry with no relief in sight and there might not be another cutting. There are lots of square bales still for sale, but the price will get stupid once there is no more hay.


Folks are baling like mad around here, but it IS baling weather. Who knows what the next 30 days will bring..awful dry at my place, but up around Huntsville, Woodville, and New Waverly, they got a heck of a big rain a few days ago.


Pallets are free, tarps are cheap, hay won't be.....


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> Don't tell the sellers what you plan to do with them.





Wehner Homestead said:


> Exactly what Bruce said! Some will wig out on you!!





Mike CHS said:


> We know a bunch of small holders like ourselves and they expect some of their sales to be going to the freezer. You can't afford to have as many as we do and hang on to them with our relatively small acreage.



Yes -- PET owners can be off limits for that reason...depends on whose pet it is.  

Mostly you look for the "small farm" breeder, like you Mike, who isn't raising a PET, per say, but a friendly, healthy herd, that can be handled.

LS I'm glad you got the spur removed so "easily".   That wire can sure do a job!   Like GB says, other than animals.  The OB handles are better but, you probably won't need them but once a year.  Bet RJ is glad for removal.

So once Mel is healed you can get the crap washed off.  Consider using wet wipes, after a good brushing to get most of the buildup out. You can get wipes that will help remove oils....back to the horse grooming section. I would suggest some warm water with Dawn & a hose but, I think you said Mel believes he's allergic to a water hose & bath.   Maybe a bucket of that, no hose, would work.  He's pretty big to argue with!


----------



## greybeard

I have both the wire handles and the OB handles (use them for the calf puller OB chains) and I prefer the wire handles like I posted and LS used. For a long job, those fit my big hands better, as the chain handles are tight on the width of my hands.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, you do have some big hands GB. I saw the pic of the handles you posted GB but didn't recognize they were sitting on a printer and didn't really "get" the size comparison. The sales literature just shows close ups of the handles, with nothing in the pic to judge size. I mean, they do what they're meant to do, but I have to figure out a better way to get the wire to stay put in the handle vice pulling through. That way I can concentrate on holding the handle instead of holding the wire to keep it from slipping.

On the hay front, I buy small square bales of alfalfa that are shipped in from Kansas or New Mexico, not local hay. The goats won't eat the local hay... they just pull it out of the feeder and drop it on the ground or ignore it completely.


----------



## Bruce

Picky goats!! Tell them they should be grateful for what you can provide.


----------



## Latestarter

Indeed Bruce, indeed!  I've been out of hay now for over a week and since they are grazing so well and have full rumens, I haven't bought any. I do need to get at least a little for rainy days when they don't want to go far from their shelter.

So I checked that rub spot on RJ's neck this morning when he was getting his morning scratches. There's a decent sized knot under there. My fingers came away wet so I squeezed and sure enough, pus came out  So later today I'm going to have some doctorin' to do I'll let him get a full rumen first. Sure glad I didn't wait till the end of the month when my son got here. I need to get a rasp as well to file down the edges of that cut area. This morning he got upset at CB for eating out of "HIS" food bucket so hooked under her armpit and lifted her and wouldn't put her down till I smacked him.

No nasty medicated oil on Mel this morning. As soon as I grab the bottle he heads out for the other end of the pasture.  He makes me chase him down and corner him all the way down back before he'll sit still and let me apply it. During his morning lovin's I checked the area out and there's no weeping sores anymore, no more spreading, and it appears to be all drying out nicely. Will continue to keep an eye (and fingers) on it to make sure.


----------



## Bruce

Mel likes rib eye.


----------



## Baymule

Mel ain't stupid.


----------



## Latestarter

Mel DOES like rib eye... Guess it runs in the family. Or maybe it's because that's primarily what I buy so is what he gets?

So when I went down to feed the goats it was like mating season central...  My danged wether moose was chasing Dot around the pen stamping and snorting and trying to mount her and both of her sons were participating in the chase as well. That fixed it for them (literally) and for me. They have now both been banded and I'm back down to one buck; RJ. Luckily RJ wasn't participating as he's the only one I know for sure is ready and able to produce offspring. They just hit 11 weeks today so they may but should not be fertile. They both had pretty well developed and dropped testes. Had trouble initially getting them both through the band. But it's done. The last boy was a real challenge as he knew something bad was coming and wanted nothing to do with me. I finally had to tackle him on the run.

All adults had there 3rd worming so that's done. Ordered some cobalt boluses today. They've had copper boluses, they've been wormed, they get twice daily 16% pellets, were getting alfalfa hay, free choice minerals, and they just aren't putting on weight and their coats are looking dull and several have fish tails. They aren't producing as much milk as I think they should be making either.  I will say that most of them have much improved hooves though.

This morning I felt a tickle starting in my throat and I now have a summer cold. Sore throat, swollen glands, post nasal drip, congestion... Just great  Hurts to swallow. sucks.


----------



## Baymule

Not a summer cold! Great, that's just what you DON'T need.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> This morning I felt a tickle starting in my throat and I now have a summer cold. Sore throat, swollen glands, post nasal drip, congestion... Just great  Hurts to swallow. sucks.


So sorry...summer cold are just not any fun at all.


----------



## greybeard

Goat Whisperer said:


> View attachment 49161


I happened to look at mine today. They are bigger than that, with plastic coating where your hand goes and they are double hooked, with the hooks turned 90 deg from what your's are. Still hurt my hand when I used them with saw wire.


----------



## Mike CHS

You may get lucky and just be having sinus issues.  We have so much stuff in the air even I had to wear a dust mask the other day when I was cutting a neighbors tall grass/weeds.  He had some super sized ragweed going on.


----------



## Latestarter

Nah Mike... I have 24/7 sinus issues. This is a cold. Felt it coming and building and it's kinda hanging in the background right now. I used up all of my bags of frozen chickens parts (necks, wing tips, gizzards, livers, etc) and have a soup simmering on the stove right now. I did have one frozen container of soup from the last batch but I (made the mistake of) put rice in it so when thawed and reheated it turns to mush. It's sitting in the sink thawing now and I'll give it to the dogs as a weekend treat with dinner tonight.

I've been craving milk and of course I don't have any right now.  Been working on a shopping list & it's growing in anticipation of my kids and grands coming in 2 weeks. Really want either raw milk from the dairy (50 mile round trip plus higher milk cost) or goats milk (on withdrawal for wormer). Probably have to just settle for store bought.


----------



## Bruce

You have dairy goats and NO milk??

I don't know if I should  or bad timing on the wormer I guess.


----------



## Latestarter

Between birthing and feeding kids the does are really getting dragged down. The kids are looking splendid as are the boys... The does are looking like really skinny dairy goats. They needed wormed and I couldn't put it off. There's milk, I just am not supposed to drink it.   Just came in from feeding them and milked more than a quart & 1/2 onto the ground from Dot. Using Ivermectin 1% injectable orally (X3 10 days apart), so 9 day withdrawal. They had their final treatment yesterday so will be able to drink it again ~ the 19th.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> There's milk, I just am not supposed to drink it.


What's the worst that can happen? Maybe you shed a few worms, that can't be bad, right?


----------



## Latestarter

Hmmmmmmm....


----------



## greybeard

Ivermectin is used orally for lots of human problems, but in very small doses. 
https://www.drugs.com/dosage/ivermectin.html


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, see? What could go wrong?? 
I wonder what the Ivermectin concentration is in the milk day 1-10. I also wonder if it has been tested and how cautious they are with "just in case" buffers. For instance I've read that some products used to worm chickens have an egg withholding period in the US but not in some other countries. 

And some medicines are "good" for a specific time period but the reason isn't because they have been found to be NOT good after that time but the testing done to get FDA approval stopped after that time period so they really have no idea how much longer it would be good.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Sore throat, swollen glands, post nasal drip, congestion... Just great  Hurts to swallow. sucks.


Hope you are now better from the summer cold.


----------



## Latestarter

So still trying to kick the cold. Moved into my chest and can't lay down to sleep cause of drainage making me cough. Throat still sore as well. Need to get rid of it here pretty quick as I have kids and grands coming in a bit more than a week.

I gave all the adult goats a cobalt bolus a couple of nights ago. Barely fit in the balling gun. Twice the size of the copper boluses. I have one goat that goes for peanut butter as if it were goat crack... Maybe something in it that she's missing in her diet...  All the others are pretty noncommittal about it.

Mel is now a full time LGD. He's out with the goats full time now. I bring him up to the house during the day on either Saturday or Sunday so he can spend the day snoozing in the AC. Not putting anymore stuff on his neck. everything has dried up and is healing and the hair is growing back. Elf is my back yard dog. He comes in when Mel does but other than that, pretty much just wants to be outside. Even when Mel is in, Elf wants out. He still charges the fence line and growls/barks at the goats.   They aren't scared of him and Bang actually tries to butt him through the fence. I yell at him every time he does it that I'm out there and catch him.  I'm tempted to go buy a CO2 BB pistol and carry it so I can pop him in the a$$ during the act. 

So 3:30am, gonna go try to get some shut eye.


----------



## RollingAcres

Hope you got some sleep and the cold goes away soon. I hate coughing especially when you're trying to lay down and rest.


----------



## mystang89

Sorry you got that congestion,I just got over that myself.


----------



## Latestarter

No sleep for the weary... Laid there wide awake till ~5:30 and said to heck with it and got up. Made a big mug of tea, scrambled a couple of eggs with a little shredded fiesta mix cheese and had that with a fruit bar for breakfast. Then headed out to do goat chores and get back to doing fencing. Just got finished drying off from a shower and now it's about to be recliner and AC for me till sundown. It's not terrible bad outside... 92° with a bit of a breeze every now and again. 

I finished tying off a couple of fence ends and hung my last 2 gates. Did some tree trimming for the goats to feast on as well. There will be more gates to hang down the road, but I don't have them here yet.   They get rather expensive. I broke several wires while tightening them   Hate it when that happens... Learned a valuable lesson... after stretching fencing and attaching it to the fence posts with staples, you don't want to put off tying it off as the wire WILL slip back through the staples, no matter how deep you pound them in. Re-tightening them is how I broke a couple...

So tomorrow, I hope to get back to it and plant a couple of more fence end points with bracing and drive T-posts. These are going to be in jungle so will need to do some chain saw work first to clear the areas.

Life goes on. Hope all are having a great Thursday!


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> It's not terrible bad outside... 92°


92 is bad, I'll melt. 
I don't like the heat. I'm not weak, just don't like it.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, seein' as you're from practically the arctic, I completely understand!


----------



## Mike CHS

Are the skeeters and ticks out in force at your place?  I've been going through a can of spray about every two weeks.  Both critters are terrible but it gives us something to gripe about instead of the weather.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I'm tempted to go buy a CO2 BB pistol and carry it so I can pop him in the a$$ during the act.


Or maybe an electric training collar. Zap him good when he charges the goats.


----------



## RollingAcres

Ticks, black & deer flies are bad. Haven't seen, well haven't been bitten by any skeeters yet. So far seems like every time I go outside I get chewed up by deer flies. The bites really hurt and then the part that got bitten will get really red and warm for several days(for me at least).


----------



## Bruce

Not to mention bleed for a bit. I think they have jaws 3x the size of their bodies!


----------



## Latestarter

We haven't had enough rain for water to pool in the creek bed. Looked at it today and it was dry. No mosquitoes really to speak of. We have flies, but they've dropped off in number because it's dry. Then there are deer flies and the big horse flies. At least when those big ones land on you, you can count to 4 then smack them before they get a bite on. They are so slow. I haven't seen a tick here in over a year. Oh... but the lightening bugs are back and we have beetles all over the place. Have heard some Cicadas as well.

Since I had to have gates open to hang them, I had Mel in the back yard earlier. He's fast and powerful enough he could have pushed past me and escaped. The goats I can yell and wave my arms at and they move away. They've been eyeing the vegetation on the other side of the fences though. Always greener there and in fact true right now. Gotta get a couple more pastures fenced in to move them around. 

When I came in, Mel and Elf came in as well. I gave each of them some cold milk as a treat and they have really enjoyed being in the AC. Elf had enough and started pestering about an hour ago so he went back out. Mel just woke up for some lovin' and has now started snoring behind me here on the carpet in the back bedroom/computer room. Too early to do goat chores as they are still grazing and I don't want to pen them up yet while they still can. They get dinner inside the pen and I close them up while they're eating.


----------



## greybeard

It's very rare, that in spite of the hordes of insects here, that anything actually bites me. Fire ants being about the sole exception. Flying insects very very rarely bite or sting me, and those few times, I usually just ignore. 

I have noticed, that some people are more prone to attracting flying insects than others.


----------



## Latestarter

My dad was that way... there'd be clouds of mosquitoes and he'd calmly claim that they weren't bothering him in the least.


----------



## greybeard

I have 3 really good bug zappers on my front porch. Between sundown and about 11pm, it sounds like Dr Frankenstein's castle out there...we kill thousands of 'em every night...all kinds of flying bugs. We have to get the leaf blower and clean the zappers out about every 3rd day. 

The bugs torment my wife on the porch, but never bother me a bit sitting right next to her.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I get eaten alive! It was even worse each time I was pregnant.


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> I have noticed, that some people are more prone to attracting flying insects than others.


That's me, every time.


----------



## greybeard

Sometimes, it's just a case of unique & natural body odors (everyone has different subtle odors we can't/don't notice) that attract them, sometimes it's cologne, bath soap and laundry detergent residue, perfume, even anti antiperspirant, hair and beauty aids that attract them more to one person than another. Carbon dioxide exhaled has a lot to do with it as well.  The man made  'attractant' Octenol that bug zappers use nowadays mimics C02, which attracts mosquitoes, but deer flies and horseflies have very good eyesight and mostly just use vision to locate their victims.  Octenol is sometimes referred to as 'cow's breath'.

Blood type also plays into the formula. Biting insects seem to prefer type O blood and somehow the insects can detect it even before biting in.
Pregnant women are more prone to be bitten in the later stages of pregnancy than non-pregnant people but that's because they breath in and out more, pushing out a lot more C02. 

Some research says that sweat attracts them more than non-sweaty people, but I haven't found that to be the case personally..I don't get bitten any more often when hot and sweaty than when not sweating.


----------



## RollingAcres

GB you're a wealth of information! I always feel smarter after reading your post (that's a compliment, not sarcasm).


----------



## Mini Horses

RollingAcres said:


> GB you're a wealth of information! I always feel smarter after reading your post (that's a compliment, not sarcasm).



2X!!  I've said before "walking encyclopedia"  -- it's GREAT!   And apparently his stink isn't desired stink...….for bugs, anyway.


----------



## Latestarter

If only 1/2 of this actually happens, I'll be thrilled!  Bring on that rain!


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## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> 2X!!  I've said before "walking encyclopedia"  -- it's GREAT!


Well, I read and research a LOT and because I grew up in a home that my father had a big auto shop beside it, myself and all 3 of my siblings worked in it and I developed early on, the urge (obsession?) to not only know what will work but how and more importantly 'why' something works..or doesn't work, and for whatever reason, I'm just one of those people that has a seemingly insatiable thirst for knowledge regarding all things and thus far in my old life, have been blessed with good memory. 

If I read something and am not familiar with a word, process, practice  or phrase, I simply 'have' to find out what it is even if I have no real use for it in my own life. 

With all this trivia I have floating around, I sometimes think  _I am the very model of a modern major general_ but I'll leave it to the reader to discern what that italicized phrase means and from where it is derived, but to dispel that notion, I do try to post sources for things I post here and anywhere on the web.


----------



## Mike CHS

I hope you get some of that rain.


----------



## greybeard

light rain here, and the sky has that low altitude tropical look to it. Just light rain thus far with cloud cover coming in from ESE.


----------



## goats&moregoats

Glad Mel is improving. 
Skeeters were bad here, but they have declined. Deer flies are out in the pasture and absolutely drive me crazy when I am out there. Ticks(so far) are not as bad this years as they were the last two years. Those darn tiny flies are wicked in the pasture. Poor goats.


----------



## animalmom

Oh, @greybeard, you are much more important to us than anything Gilbert and Sullivan could compose.  You are a walking talking compilation of all the FoxFire books.  We treasure you.

Besides you are never stuffy.


----------



## greybeard

I was fortunate to be able to take in a The Gilbert and Sullivan Society of Houston production of The Pirates of Penzance  in 2015 with Alistair Donkin both director and  playing the part of Major Genral Stanley. 
Both the Major General song and Monarch of the Sea/When I was a Lad from HMS Pinafore are jabs at the British military's aristocracy that existed in the late 1800s, a time when it was pretty accurate to state "The sun never sets on the British Empire".


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Nothing but the occasional light shower here too.  I scalped the yard yesterday - need some of that rain!


----------



## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> Nothing but the occasional light shower here too.  I scalped the yard yesterday - need some of that rain!


That moisture/low pressure system is still mostly out in the Gulf. Just seeing bands of it as they come thru.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yep... had a couple showers today but that's about it - so far...


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## Latestarter

Forecasters up here are saying the Houston area is gonna be like a revisit of Harvey with up to 6-12" of rain over the coming days. I hope some of it makes it up to me this time. Like you FEM, when I saw the forecast for poss rain all week I went out and started mowing this morning. Got the front and back yards done, the interior driveway area out to the road, and the entire front pasture. I expect I'll do some more mowing in the back tomorrow. Then just hope that we get some much needed moisture.

When I finished up mowing late this afternoon, I was feeling a little weird... So after hosing myself down real well to cool off I sat out back to dry and noticed I wasn't sweating at all. So I hooked up my BP machine to check and see what that had to say. All it said was "the batteries are dead"  So I put some clothes on and ran to wally world to get some batteries. Filled the truck gas tank ($2.51/gal), as I have a VA appt on Wed, then airport trip to make on Saturday. Coming home there was a nice dark shower cloud producing a rainbow but the rain wasn't reaching the ground. It was in my general area. Oh well... Not a cloud in the sky around me right now but temp is down to 84° and there's a nice breeze. OH, I also stopped at Dairy Queen and had a large Oreo blizzard.   Figured that with ice water should help keep the internal temp down and help me re-hydrate.

I hope to sleep well tonight. Oh, and the BP was 134/69 which is actually better than where it should be for me. I generally run in the 135/85 range. Pulse was a little high at around 100. With all the heat I soaked up today, I think I'll skip the jacuzzi tonight. I think I may sit outside for a bit with a large mug of ice water though.


----------



## Mike CHS

BP can be a tricky thing.  I found out last year that if I let myself get really dehydrated my BP goes down to the point that is dangerous.  I would feel the symptoms and come in to check to see it at something silly like 80/40 and I take meds for high BP.  I make it a point to not do that anymore.


----------



## Baymule

Have you got over your cold? Summer colds are miserable. 

It was cloudy this morning. We took down the round pen from the front/side and took it to the barn and put it up. Our son is visiting and he cut some trees and brush, he was a HUGE help! Been wanting to move it for awhile. Kept looking for rain, but the sun came out and all it did was get hot.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Forecasters up here are saying the Houston area is gonna be like a revisit of Harvey with up to 6-12" of rain over the coming days.



It would have to rain 3x-4x that to equal a Harvey event.
South East Houston officially received 51+ inches during Harvey.

There are currently no warnings or watches posted for the Houston region except for riptide warnings to swimmers along the coast.


----------



## Mike CHS

We had a storm start up around 9:00 last night that wasn't even in the forecast and dumped right at 3".


----------



## frustratedearthmother

We're still sitting at under 1/2 inch.  Definitely don't need a Harvey repeat - but I don't think this one poses that danger.     'Course, I still worry when they don't behave and sit out there in the gulf instead of just coming on in already....


----------



## RollingAcres

Other than the possible t-storm today no rain in sight until Saturday.


----------



## greybeard

Alternating between sunny and rainy here today, with about 30 minutes of each before they switch. More rain than yesterday so far and not nearly as hot but probably have not yet gotten a full 1/2" of rain total last 2 days.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> All it said was "the batteries are dead"


Better than saying "You are dead"!


----------



## Latestarter

CDT vaccinations are done for the year. CC's baby PBJ (Peanut Butter Jaw) got her booster this morning before breakfast. All the adults got hoof trims. off and on cloudy but no rain yet. Fingers crossed  No more mowing today. A bit stiff and sore from yesterday's pounding. All the dust aggravated the sinus portion of this cold I'm still fighting as well. Less concerned about mowing the back anyway.


----------



## greybeard

You may get some rain in the next couple days Joe, if the does as predicted and continues to very slowly move NNW. It's still mostly offshore and pretty far South. Right now, the only watches or advisories in Texas are for a T-storm near Beaumont and several counties in south Texas in the lower coastal bend and that last one isn't even a flood advisory as the ground is so dry they don't expect flash flooding to be a big risk. A radar/satellite  composite image:




We are forecast now, to get around 3" over night and perhaps another 1" tomorrow. I'll believe it when I see it.


----------



## Baymule

It has been cloudy here yesterday and today, then sunshine in the afternoons. It has been a little cooler, working outside was still hot, but a heck of a lot more pleasant with cloud cover and a breeze. We got a sprinkle awhile ago.


----------



## Latestarter

Same here Bay... we had a summer shower mid afternoon. Rained hard for like 3 minutes... just enough to dampen everything. Cooled down to mid 80s here this afternoon and is actually pretty nice out right now with a steady breeze. I'll be more than happy with a few passing T-storms. I wanted something other than makeshift for dinner so after everything got done I showered and went to Chile's for an order of hot wings and a 1/2 rack of ribs. They were having happy hour so added in a double screwdriver in a tall glass. First drink I've had in months. Told my doc at the VA that I'd stop drinking completely. Even though I maybe had 1 or 2 mixed drinks a month, he thought that was too much. 

Hope you don't get flood worthy rains out of this GB. When I compared to Harvey, was talking about training over one area for a prolonged time frame, not so much actual quantity of rain. Doesn't look to me like it's going to get all organized into anything drastic.

Well, it's now 11pm and I think I'm gonna go jucuzzi for a bit then crash. Hope all had a decent Monday.


----------



## greybeard

Did almost nothing today. Dug one post hole..the ground was dry and hard 1" down. That's how little rain we've had.


----------



## Hens and Roos

wish we could send you some of the rain we have been getting...we got about 1 inch over night by us...some places to the north of us were getting 4-5 inches!


----------



## greybeard

Today has begun just like yesterday. Solid low cloud cover, variable winds mostly from E & ESE, dry but punctuated by occasional light showers. The only place any water is puddled is under the eaves of the house. 
Looks like the coastal counties are getting the most rain but not much there if the sat and radar are indicative.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I'm in Brazoria county and so far we've been spared.  We have had some rain and I'd be ok if it stopped right now.  Most of the big storms are splitting and going around us.  Still have today and tomorrow to get through so who knows what's yet to come?


----------



## CntryBoy777

We got a cloud burst for about a full minute yesterday evening, but got final rounds done right before it started....it will be "instant" humidity when the sun hits it this morning...I need to get field 2 cut ahead of the coming rain on Wed/Thurs.
Joe be careful over there....there is a very fine line between heat exhaustion and heat stroke....the lack of sweat is one of those signs and once the heat touches ya....it doesn't take as much to get ya the next time either....I speak from experience, so don't push it.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Told my doc at the VA that I'd stop drinking completely. Even though I maybe had 1 or 2 mixed drinks a month, he thought that was too much.



Really??    Is that because of meds or medical effects?   Seems to be a minor amount.  No fun left, sometimes. 


Dang, you guys are dry there.  Sorry.  We have had rains that have kept things growing.  Of course, here we are coastal and get the spells of drought, spells of storms just like ya'll. Right now we are humid and hot.   Early mornings really nice generally, then head for cover!


----------



## Latestarter

I think he's just a teetotaler and doesn't like folks drinking. It's mostly because he wants me to lose weight and drinking doesn't help one lose weight. I've tried to explain to him that the amount that I drink is not a real contributor to my weight issues.   Nothing to do with medicines...


----------



## greybeard

My cardiologist and the 'lung' people told me the same thing in 2015 and I did quit..completely. Lost over 50 lbs in the following year and 1/2 and went from size 40 waist back into size 36 jeans and I better not forget my belt even with those.. But, I don't eat much either.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, sold 2 more wethers today. Going to let CM (Moose) go, along with either one of Dot's boys or the boy from April I had originally planned to replace moose with. Haven't really decided which one yet. The buyer is local here and doesn't have a trailer so asked if I could deliver them. I said sure. He's finishing up an enclosure for them and I'll deliver them Saturday after they have breakfast. Took a bit of a discount over asked price and not being compensated for the delivery but he was originally only going to buy one. When I asked if he already had goats so Moose would have company he said he would be getting 3 or 4 more in a couple of weeks. So I sold him a 2nd one. He has 20 acres he wants to put goats on to clear. I'm guessing he doesn't care about breeding or milking. Anyway... I'm OK with it.  So, I'll have one more wether available and if he doesn't sell, he'll be winter freezer filler. I'm keeping the biggest one as the last to go, just in case. 

Kinda graying up here and really damp/humid but no rain and nothing on radar.   Sure feels like it wants to though. I think Mel really wants to be inside the house too. Can't say that I blame him.


----------



## Baymule

Glad that you are getting some sold. One for the freezer is a good (and tasty) idea! I bet Mel would rather be inside where it is cool! Trip came in awhile ago for his "nap". He had been working hard, barking at the howling coyotes. About 15 minutes and he was ready to go back to work.


----------



## Bruce

Then he got outside and said "Dang is it HOT out here, maybe better to extend the nap until the sun gets low".


----------



## Latestarter

So the dogs woke me at 4am and I glanced out the bedroom window to see headlights up at the front neighbor's place. That was shortly replaced by multiple EMS strobes from at least 3 vehicles. All rather strange since my neighbor is an OTR trucker and is only home on every other weekend or so. I hadn't seen him or his truck there yesterday... Took a bit to get the dogs calmed down that it was OK and they left ~4:30 and I went back to bed. I hope he's OK and it's nothing serious.

This damned cold has gotten worse so now I have a hacking cough with lots of phlegm... sore throat, swollen glands, the whole works. God do I hate colds, especially in the summer.  So quality of sleep not so good and I don't sleep well to begin with. I climbed out of bed around 8 (later than normal) and it's gray, gray, gray, and wet, and misty. I'm thinkin' "Hold off till I can get the goats fed"... Well, ask and you DON'T receive (further proven by my lack of lottery winnings). Got the pellets all poured out in the bowls, set them free and as soon as they stuck their heads in the bowls the rain started getting harder and harder till it was a down pour.  I let Mel into the yard so he could go up on the back porch with Elf, and stood there till the last of them gave it up and ran for shelter then consolidated what wet feed was left into one small bowl and covered it with the other large bowls stacked and inverted. Still gonna be mush and a throw away by later today.

Have an appt at the VA today, labs at noon and then seen at 2. I wish they'd state on the appt notice whether the labs are "fast" or "no fast" labs being drawn... 

OK, so better get going and hit the road.Radar shows the storm that just went over me with a lot more coming. Gonna be a wet and miserable ride in both directions it appears. @Baymule It looks like you're gonna get some serious rain out of what's coming toward you. I know you need it! Should get the front edge over you in about an hour or so. @Devonviolet should get her some rain shortly after that as all this stuff moves north. Looks like @greybeard might have gotten some heavier stuff overnight and appears it's now falling "upstream" from his place. Hope he doesn't end up needing that ark again .

Time to go. Need to hit the road. Have a great day!


----------



## RollingAcres

LS I hope you get your "cold" checked out, it might not be just a cold. My throat started hurting 2 days ago which I thought was just the start of a cold. Yesterday I had the chills all day(I'm normally hot) and last night my lymph nodes in my neck started hurting too. Well turns out I have strep, so now I'm on antibiotic.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Looks like @greybeard might have gotten some heavier stuff overnight and appears it's now falling "upstream" from his place. Hope he doesn't end up needing that ark again


We got what amounts to 'zero' overnight, but have had several nice showers since daylight. In the past 36 hrs, I estimate a grand total of 'maybe' 1 1/2 inches, but it all soaked in. 
And now, our electricity is out due to a tree down in the National Forest where the line crosses the river. Estimated time of repair is 2 PM.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Safe travels and great test results!!....maybe they will give something to help with the cold too.....


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Then he got outside and said "Dang is it HOT out here, maybe better to extend the nap until the sun gets low".


The sun was down, it was dark outside. Sometimes he comes in for only  a few minutes, sometimes an hour. He slinks in, head held low, with a side to side gait that reminds me of a big white lion.


----------



## Baymule

We got 1 1/4 inches today!  We sat on the porch just watching it rain. The dust is settled and not poofing up in clouds with every footstep. It is cool outside, so nice! I couldn't go outside to play, so I made zucchini bread today with the last of the zucchini. I put a couple of bags of grated zucchini in the freezer for future zucchini bread. 

How did your VA visit go?


----------



## Mike CHS

Baymule said:


> The dust is settled and not poofing up in clouds with every footstep.



Growing up in the hills of SE Missouri adjacent to all of that flat bottom land, all the young boys picked peaches in summer for spending money.  I remember walking in the rows between the trees and the powdery dust would be over your ankles.  I never did figure out how a fruit with so much moisture came out of those barren hill orchards.

Another ? on how did your VA visit go?


----------



## greybeard

Some of the best peaches I ever bought were in  Western Arkansas near Rich Mt and Queen Wilhelmina St Park.
(We bought 32 bushels of them and brought 'em back to the Tx gulf coast and sold every last one in 2-3 days)


----------



## Mini Horses

We had one of those "isolated soakers" late afternoon.  I was on computer, noticed it was almost suddenly dark...heard thunder.  Wind just whipped up out of nowhere, got my shoes and ran out to close coops.  It started as I was coming in, ran into barn.  Spent next 35 minutes watching it POUR!   Those pull off the road you can't see pours.  Finally slowed, then stopped as quickly as it had begun.   Ran thru the light rain to the house, changed from wet to dry clothes.  Looked and we had gotten an inch in that time 

Didn't really need it but, here it is.

So, LS, are you still with us or did VA keep ya?      You have NO private life here....but, we all care aboutcha.


----------



## CntryBoy777

There is a ridge of land that rises from the delta, over in Arkansas....west of Memphis, named "Crowley's Ridge"....they seem to have some really good peaches for many yrs come from there......we used to bring strawberries up from Florida along with citrus when we came to visit.....


----------



## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> We had one of those "isolated soakers" late afternoon.  I was on computer, noticed it was almost suddenly dark...heard thunder.  Wind just whipped up out of nowhere, got my shoes and ran out to close coops.  It started as I was coming in, ran into barn.  Spent next 35 minutes watching it POUR!   Those pull off the road you can't see pours.  Finally slowed, then stopped as quickly as it had begun.   Ran thru the light rain to the house, changed from wet to dry clothes.  Looked and we had gotten an inch in that time
> 
> Didn't really need it but, here it is.
> 
> So, LS, are you still with us or did VA keep ya?      You have NO private life here....but, we all care aboutcha.


You may get some more later in the week as the Gulf system that is slowly working it's way up thru E Texas and in to Arkansas is expected to move on off to the Eastern Seaboard of the  US.
This afternoon late we got some good rain, but the energy mass is still down south around Corpus Christi and spinning wet stuff off. One heavy mass just passed us on it's way NE and dropped about 3/4" here where the star is.


----------



## greybeard

It always amazes me how a small almost insignificant weather event can affect such a large area. The main actor in all this is the little tropical depression that popped up in the southern gulf of Mexico late last week and came in to extreme N. Mexico/S. Texas and has parked itself over the Corpus Christi/Port Lavaca area now for several days. Numbered 1 on the shot below.

Tho very small by tropical standards, it has enough energy to pull both heat out of N. Mexico and moisture from a depleted Pacific depression in the East Pacific warm waters as far away as the Gulf of California & Baha.  These stream across the skinny part of Old Mexico, feeding the land locked depression in Texas, which has just enough rotation to shoot it's moisture off to the North all the way to Nebraska where an upper level high forces a looping change in direction back out to the SW.  That looping air over the midwest is in turn pulling Atlantic moisture in to the Eastern seaboard states and across the Tenn Valley.
 All this is forecast in the next few days, to slowly move off to the East.


----------



## Latestarter

All went well at the VA. Health is actually good. Lost another couple pounds off my VA averages. No infections or anything really nasty. BP was within my normal range. Did have to drive through squalls of rain going and coming back, but not too bad. Didn't check the rain gauge here as hopefully we're not done yet. We don't have a Papa Murphy's anywhere near here but I can alter my return drive home and grab a take and bake pizza so did so. Cooked that when I got home and ate three slices.


----------



## Baymule

Glad you got a good check up.


----------



## goats&moregoats

Glad all is well and happy that those who need the rain are getting it.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> All went well at the VA. Health is actually good. Lost another couple pounds off my VA averages. No infections or anything really nasty. BP was within my normal range. Did have to drive through squalls of rain going and coming back, but not too bad. Didn't check the rain gauge here as hopefully we're not done yet. We don't have a Papa Murphy's anywhere near here but I can alter my return drive home and grab a take and bake pizza so did so. Cooked that when I got home and ate three slices.



Get ready for some really brutal humidity when this thing moves off. Temps are going to rise all over East Texas and with so much moisture in place at ground level, it's going to be dripping.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all.

And as spoken by GB, so it comes to be! The air this morning is so thick it seems like you can cut it with a knife. Any movement whatsoever and you're soaked. All my windows (need replacing) are completely fogged over outside. We got some more light sprinkles overnight, but not really enough to measure. Everything outside is wet and dripping. AC is going to be working overtime for the next couple of days. A nice T-storm would really help knock some of the humidity out of the atmosphere. Not gonna be associated with any front moving through though as that's well to the east of me. Appears it's going to be a recliner type of day.

So, there's something to be said for re-heated pizza for breakfast... Not sure what, but I'm sure there is.   When I was younger I liked cold pizza for breakfast. Now, since I get the meat pizzas, there's just too much oil/grease for me to eat it cold.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Once the approaching cold front pushes this mess thru here, we are suppose to have a couple of days break in the humidity and temps....but, will be heading back up come the wknd. Sure are glad that ya checked out well yesterday Joe....it is always good to get a good report.....


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> So, there's something to be said for re-heated pizza for breakfast... Not sure what, but I'm sure there is.



It's there -- ready & waiting.    
You can rush out the door with it.
It does have some taste.

Nutritionally -- no better than it was the night before.  
There you have it!!!!!!!   Cold goat milk is better.


Glad the VA liked your visit.


----------



## greybeard

How about this Western sky Joe? Took a few minutes ago, but back the other way is still grey.


----------



## Baymule

We did a burn pile this morning. Rain, no wind.....we were out the door at 5:30, DH lit the fire and we piled more on it. We dragged in after 12, DH took a shower, I am still making trips out to poke the ashes, so will shower later. NOW we are having a "recliner" day! LOL


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'm behind on burning around here, but with every stiff wind is bringing more limbs and branches on the ground.....guess I'll be creating a few more burn spots to keep from hauling it very far.....I need to get the chainsaw out and there will be even more.....


----------



## RollingAcres

Glad to hear you're healthy LS!


----------



## greybeard

I got quite a bit of the fence debris burned up this week but when good rain finally came yesterday that's the end of it for a few days.  Dug some postholes along that same fence and put in some wooden posts on the opposite side to water flow to help hold all those  tee posts in place, even tho there is a 10-12" post every 125 feet and retightened all 5 strands using gripples Monday and Tuesday. Pretty easy digging, but I tightened thos strands tighter than I have ever pulled barbed wire in my life and was 1/2 afraid to drive staples very tight against the strands. 
Hopefully the tight wire will hold the teeposts in place and the added wooden posts will help hold the wire.
Took this picture today while I was down there, you can see the fence in the background all cleaned off.





When it dries out a couple days, it will be time to hook up the big sprayer and kill me some weeds.


----------



## Latestarter

So the goats have been fed, and wrangled, and loaded. Was less work than I thought it might end up. Turns out hungry goats crowded around a food bowl with their heads buried don't pay much attention to a big bad human grabbing them by the collar and attaching a lead to them. So the buyer bought CM and one of the yearling wethers. I have 3 yearling wethers left and the biggest I'm keeping till last. So I figured what the hell & loaded up Slick (the smaller of Dot's 2 big boys) and Frosty (or triple socks, April's boy that I had been thinking to keep to replace CM with) as well as CM. I'll let the buyer choose which of the yearlings he wants. It really makes no difference to me long term. The other I'll bring back home and re-unite with the herd. 

Ideally, I'd like to sell one more wether this summer and be done. if it doesn't sell, then it will be freezer bound later this year. The weather is looking rather threatening and I hope it doesn't rain for a couple hours. I really don't want to transport the goats in the rain.


----------



## Hens and Roos

hope it goes smoothly for you!  we have 3 wethers pending sale...only 5 more to go


----------



## RollingAcres

Hope the rain hold off for you until you're all done.


----------



## Latestarter

Great down pour of rain just as I was getting ready to leave. Postponed departure by ~1 hour and drove through some real light sprinkles to get there. He chose Slick, the smaller of Dot's boys, so I still have frosty, back with the group and of course beast. Seemed like a nice guy. Hope they do well with/for him. Typed him up a 1 page "this is how goats work" training sheet. He was appreciative. Gave him a couple day's supply of their pellets. brought him an empty feed bag so he knows exactly what I fed them. He was finishing up their pen when I got there. He'll have it done today for them.


----------



## RollingAcres

Training sheet? That was really nice of you to havr done that for the buyer!


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah, he's had many animals, but never goats. Though they are hardy, there can be a steep learning curve so figured I'd make him a list of the basics. Also referred him here and gave him my name and number if he has issues/problems. Told him what a great group of goat folks there are here. 

I'm assuming my son has been on the road for several hours with the grand kids and the dogs. He's supposed to arrive here about noon-ish tomorrow. My daughter has begun the first of her two flight legs to get here from Maine. First flight delayed about an hour and only 90 minute layover for connecting flight, so unless that one gets delayed, she's gonna get some exercise. Bought and paid for 6/1.75lb Maine lobsters, and 10 pounds of steamer clams, packaged to travel, total price ~$141.00. I thought that was a steal! Favorite oldest daughter said no problem checking the package as luggage so that should be getting here when she does around midnight.

Went out and bought a 30 QT turkey fryer set up, to do the seafood tomorrow. Already put together and tested, works like a champ. Tried to find a 30qt boiling strainer/container that fits inside the the big pan, but no luck there. So we'll cook 'em the old fashioned way and deal with it like true New Englanders... Pull 'em out with sticks if we have to!  Looking fwd as I haven't had steamers in years and it's been over a year since I paid the restaurant price for a lobster. Gonna eat good and rich tomorrow for lunch. 

Have been cleaning house in prep for everyone's arrival. Got this room here to vacuum then I'll call it quits. Daughter's room and bed is ready for her and I'll have the son's and grand kids room ready tomorrow before they get here. Replaced the water pressure/filler on the spare toilet today as well. It was leaking, constantly running, so needed to be done. I had turned the water off to it, but it's gonna be needed with company. Kinda nice how these things are basically swap outs now... easy, quick, and virtually no tools needed.

Pressure washed the bed of the truck after removing the cage. Wind direction wasn't great and ended up wearing some nastiness. That's what showers were designed for I guess. I'll take one after goat chores and finish cleaning here before heading to the airport.


----------



## Mike CHS

I haven't had lobster since I was riding Coral Sea during a refresher training.  They had surf and turf in the Goat Locker every Friday night but that was my first experience on that class of ship and man was that thing tiny compared what I was used to.


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## Mini Horses

Well, guess we won't be hearing much from you for a few days...with company and all.   Glad the goats were delivered without issue.  

Enjoy your company and the lobster.   Yum, for lobster!

You were wanting/needing rain. Would be nice if it didn't ruin your families visit -- but somehow it seems to happen.  We've had way more than needed at once -- hope you don't.

We will be expecting pictures of "something" that happened during their visit.   You know us, most anything will work.    maybe more fencing will happen and that would help you.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Hope all goes well and ya can have a really good visit with them there......enjoy the grub!!....


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## RollingAcres

Enjoy your lobsters and clams feast and  most of all enjoy your family!

I'll be here drooling over those lobsters and clams


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## Latestarter

Oh my... still stuffed. Lobster till full for lunch then steamed clams till full for dinner. Mighty rich fare but wouldn't trade it. My son and the grands have spent the day eating and napping. They drove over night and got here around 9 this morning. Had one lobster tail left and maybe a 1/2 order of steamers. Everything traveled fine and all were alive and kicking at cook time. Had a couple of dead clams and a few with smashed shells, but nothing to complain about. I will definitely order from that company again. 

Was going to go to the store, but decided we didn't need anything critical that can't wait till tomorrow.  I just want to crash. Thinking tomorrow will be a recovery day then property work will commence. 

Thanks all. Gonna be a busy couple of weeks for sure. Company until my favorite oldest daughter leaves on the evening of the 9th. Son's wife will be flying in on the 30th and they'll drive home on the 7th.


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## RollingAcres

Glad you enjoyed your feast! Have fun with your family and put them to work at your property.


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## Bruce

for your family coming to visit and making you happy!


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## Baymule

I am so glad that you are having a great time with your family. Good food, good company and a good time! Yes, we want pictures!


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> We did a burn pile this morning. Rain, no wind.....we were out the door at 5:30, DH lit the fire and we piled more on it. We dragged in after 12, DH took a shower, I am still making trips out to poke the ashes, so will shower later. NOW we are having a "recliner" day! LOL



before and after. I had alread burned some of it, but lit the rest of it yesterday afternoon and took my brush cutter on the weedeater and cut everything growing on the fenceline that was small enough to cut with that brush blade. I'll have to cut some bigger cedars with my chainsaw today. 



 



 

Not sure what happened yesterday, if it was from the smoke or some kind of pollen, but I had trouble with my eyes..burning and watering badly..so bad I wasn't sure I was going to be able to drive back over the pond dam...it's extremely narrow after the flood. May have just been a combination of cedar, smoke and sweat in my eyes or some of the medications I take warn of photosensitivity. Really not supposed to be in the sun at all but the work goes on.


----------



## goats&moregoats

Hope you all continue to have a wonderful time together. Love it when family is around.

Glad you sale went well. I try to give about the same information to new goat owners and all the same for feed with any buyer.


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## Mini Horses

Will post a reminder for goat sales -- Rosh Hashanah is mid Sept.

Any late kiddings, leftovers, etc.  Time to sell.


----------



## Latestarter

Interesting set of circumstances here a couple days ago. RJ is withdrawn and keeping very much to himself at the moment. With the grands beings much smaller than I, he's gotten a bit "pushy", possessive, and was trying to "mark me" as a possession. When I tried to dissuade him, he took offense and decided that maybe he should directly challenge me by growling and lowering his head and moving at me. Well, I imagine most can figure out how that ended... Yup, with him on his side, head pinned to the ground by the neck, and me on top of him holding him there until he'd submit. He was screaming at the top of his lungs and fighting to get away, he smacked his really crooked scur into the ground and broke the outer horn off clean at the base. When he pulled his head down, the scur/horn stayed in the ground where he stuck it. 

He was left with the bloody/bleeding, pulpy root interior sticking out of the top of his head.   So while his initial screaming was indignation, it quickly changed to pain. Grrrrrr... so I continued to hold him a few seconds longer till he laid still, then let him back up. I had my son run up to the house for the blood stop powder and we got it liberally coated and the bleeding stopped. This morning, while everyone else was laying outside, he was hiding inside the shelter, standing at the back all by himself. I had to go get him and chase him out to eat some breakfast, which he did. But, he's NOT butting any other goats away from "his" food at the moment. He's being real careful about that side of his head. It's dried up pretty hard and there's no fresh blood. I'm expecting that eventually he'll grow new scur horn over the remainder of what's there.

Has anyone had this happen to their goat? Can you share what I should expect?

Just picked my daughter in law up from the airport and she has joined the family contingent here.  So at the moment I'm a happy grampa.  My favorite oldest daughter found out that her younger sister will be in Maine after she had planned to return. Since she (the younger) has been ostracized from the family, I offered to change her return date if she chose to not have to deal with her sister. She chose to stay longer so I paid for a new one way return ticket later in the month so she doesn't have to deal with her sister.

Boy is it hot and humid here. Guess there's a chance/hope for poss rain this coming Tuesday/Wed... We'll see. Hope all are doing well with their summer. Hard to believe it's already July  Well, it will be in less than 8 hours for me.

OK, time to take the grands and go let the goats out to free range. They love to be "goat wranglers"


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> When he pulled his head down, the scur/horn stayed in the ground where he stuck it.


Well that is one way to get rid of the scur before it causes him or another damage.

Sorry things are so bad with the family that members go to great lengths to avoid others.


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## Baymule

I have a wether with scurs. He knocked one off and it has healed up. As to if the horn will grow back, I would think it would. Dinner goes to slaughter on July 11, so I won't know if his horn grows back or not.


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## ragdollcatlady

The tissue should heal the same as if it were a smaller scur that was knocked off. As long as it seals up without infection, the scab should harden and new horn/scur tissue should grow eventually. It may take some time though, Swag and Gusgus had some big scur issues and they took forever to heal, just because they will scratch or butt the new scab off before the healing is done. As long as you don't see any indication of pus, infection or withdrawn behavior, lethargy or lack of appetite (after the initial pain is gone), then I wouldn't worry too much. Keep an eye on it, and tell him to behave.

I found Alushield, a silver colored spray that I used this year after disbudding that seems to work good. 

If you do end up with infection, antibiotics might be warranted. Then I use duct tape and Telfa (non stick bandage material, sanitary napkins will work in a pinch or if they are cheaper and you need alot) to make goat proof bandages for heads and change em out every other day with raw honey. I would do every day if I could, but I usually don't have the help and it still works with every other day.


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## ragdollcatlady

And the scurs usually grow back smaller and slower each consecutive time they break off, at least in my experience it has.


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## Bruce

So Joe just has to wrestle RJ to the ground every time the scur grows back until it is just a wee thing!


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## Mini Horses

Fortunately, the two here with scurs have ones that get about thumbnail size and are almost flat.  They have rubbed them off a couple times, no biggie.  Then, I have several with real horns. I am going to cut them off part way down. Tips and a little more mostly.


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## Devonviolet

Mini Horses said:


> the two here with scurs have ones that get about thumbnail size and are almost flat. They have rubbed them off a couple times, no biggie.


My Angelica has two little scurs, that float and rock slightly.  They are exactly like you described yours Mini.  She has knocked them off a couple times, and like yours, each time they grow back a little smaller. I was worried at first, when she was younger. but I was assured I they would eventually get knocked off, and that’s exactly what happened!


----------



## goatgurl

really glad you are having a great visit with the kids.  your seafood boil had me drooling on my keyboard.  yum.  i'm sure the goats don't mind to much being wrangled.  youall are making some memories those grandkids will never forget
poor rj, I've had goats knock the horn part of a scur off leaving a bloody nub before.  just like you did, blood stop powder and make sure there is no fly strike or infection.  you can bet he is going to be standoffish and not challenge anyone for quite some time.  can you say ouch!
keep enjoying your visit with the family.


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## Latestarter

RJ is doing well and pretty much back to his good old self. My daughter and the kids go out and visit the goats multiple times daily. RJ comes up to me for scratches again, but now from the side rather than head on and challenging. He keeps his head away from me and presents his neck/sides for scratching. He's gonna be just fine. Champ did something to herself to gouge out a line of skin on her side. My guess is climbing the burn pile she slipped and a stick end got her. I pulled off the ripped up skin and gave her a good spray coat of Blukote. She's doing fine and none the worse for wear.

It's now been a bit over 3 weeks since I gave all the adults a cobalt bolus. Their condition has improved 100%. Their coats have all darkened and become glossy and smooth. Dot's milk production has increased back up to ~2.5 quarts once a day with a morning milking. Her milk is absolutely wonderful to drink. Sweet and creamy. It appears that the other gal's udders are fuller and producing more/better milk as well. I think this has additionally benefited the kids drinking off the dams... I just wish I could get them all to put on some more weight for a thicker/better body covering. They are looking mighty dairy/thin and I can see their ribs/spine/hip bones too well for my preference.

My son and his family have gone to the movies to see the new Jurassic world. I cooked up a bunch of chicken thighs and drumsticks on the grill for lunch before they left and have a pork shoulder in the oven on low temp for dinner tonight. Gonna boil up some spuds too as one of the grands wants mashed taters. Not sure but I may even make pork gravy. Haven't made it in years and I really do like gravy on pork and mashed spuds.

Lit off a bunch of fireworks for the grands last night after dark. Pretty dry here so I did them up near the house where there's less danger of starting a wild fire. Was pretty good and everyone enjoyed it.

OK, so time to get off here and get something done. Gout has been kicking my ass since my son first arrived. Been in quite a bit of pain, but still managing to move when needed. Hope all had a great 4th. Hard to believe it's already Thursday. Trash day tomorrow and the son and his family leave Saturday morning.


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## Mike CHS

We did the low effort fireworks by watching the Nashville fireworks show on TV.  Even not being there it was one of the best shows I've ever seen.


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## RollingAcres

We did not watch fireworks this time as we were all asleep by around 9pm I think! lol
Was woken up a couple of times by our neighbors lighting up some fireworks but that was no big deal.


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## greybeard

No fireworks here..burn ban in effect for this and several counties surrounding us, even tho it had been raining all day..... I did notice the sign was flipped up at the county line this morning so I assume the ban was lifted today.

http://texasforestservice.tamu.edu/TexasBurnBans/


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## Mini Horses

Somewhere they did a lighted aerial display with drones.  Want to say CA -- just caught portions on TV as I walked by.  

Here nothing as I wasn't driving anywhere to watch.    I've seen enough of them.   When I lived in VA Beach, on roof of hi-rise condo, we watch from our sundeck.   They shot off from beach a few hundred feet off from building, and out above the water.  WOW -- right there, what a sight.  Noise was  not too, too bad but, enough!  That was over 20 yrs ago.

Now, a sparkler is enough.  

Glad RJ is good.   Sounds like family visit is fun for all! Nice.


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## Mike CHS

I lived in Virginia Beach off and on for 10 years but was managed to never be there over the 4th.


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## Mini Horses

Hmmm -- military??  Yep, that's how my mom & dad moved there.  Latestarter was there in service for a while, also.

Ain't nothing like it was back then!


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## Mike CHS

I know - I went to visit friends a couple of years ago and I didn't recognize anywhere.  I was last stationed that in 1985 so it had been awhile.  

I rode two carriers there and was stationed at Oceana when we were in port.


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## Bruce

Sorry to hear about the gout Joe  You don't need that ever but especially not when the family is visiting. 
RJ loves you! Hope he did learn his lesson.


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## Baymule

A cobalt bolus? It sounds like you are onto something. Glad your goats are giving more and better milk. How does your son and family like it?

Gout. I understand it is painful and not anything any one wants to deal with. It sucks that it kicked up while your family is visiting. It sounds like everyone is eating good--with all that good food you are cooking!

And then they leave.....and you miss them.


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## Latestarter

Son and family left earlier today. Just got a report that they are about 1/2 way home somewhere around Albuquerque, NM. So they'll get in about sunrise or just before. Was nice having everyone here and I was sorry to see them go, but I am glad that I'll be able to sleep in my own bed again. I gave him and his wife my room while they were both here, and I used the recliner. It wasn't too bad... I'm sure they'll be happy to be back in their own beds too.

Saw another coyote this morning right at sunup as I was feeding the goats. He came out of the woods into the rear pasture on the southern side and LF alerted on it. Mel was too occupied standing guard over me and the kids (goat kids). I at first though it was a young deer as I had the sun in my eyes but when he shook the dew out of his head/neck fur, it was immediately apparent. After the shake he headed to the back woods at a gallop. That was when Mel decided to run down to the back corner of the goat pasture to see what the commotion was all about. Of course by then the coyote was gone. I don't think he ever saw it. 

Had a decent T-storm move over us from the east. Unusual, but I'll take it. Rained pretty good for about 1/2 hour. Not sure how much we got but less than an inch. Had about 1/2" the other day which was enough for me to light up the burn pile. 70% chance tomorrow, 60% on Monday, 40% on Tuesday & Wednesday. Hope we get some more rain.

The arthritic flares are moving around and limiting me. First one shoulder then the the other, one then both hands, one then the other knee and foot... Even had it in an elbow this time around. Beginning to wonder if it really is gout or maybe something else entirely. Right now it's mild in right wrist/hand & left shoulder, and flaring in left wrist and hand/little finger. Bought a couple bottles of 100% cherry juice, tart and black, and a big bag of bing cherries to snack on. I hope that all helps. It's supposed to if it's gout.  Time will tell. Had this same thing happen about this time last year so wondering if this is going to become an annual event. Sure hope not.

Thanks everyone! Hope you, your animals and your farms are all doing well.


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## Bruce

Geez LS, I sure hope the pain subsides soon!

Mel! Get on the stick!!


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## Devonviolet

Geez LS, I feel so badly for you, and all the pain/inflammation you have been dealing with.  It seems the VA docs haven’t been much help.  If it is gout, you are on the right tract with tart cherry. However, since you have inflammation pain moving around your body, it seems like there is more going on.

I hate to see you go through this, so I sat down and put the following together, to hopefully help you decrease your inflammation pain.  Knowing something about your lifestyle, and the way you eat, I suspect this isn’t something that is going to happen over night. It is a major undertaking, to change the way you eat. But, if you decide to start making changes in your diet, in the end, I think you will find that you will be dealing with a lot less inflammation pain.

••••••••••
Foods that cause and fight inflammation

List of foods that cause inflammation:
Sugar
Gluten
Wheat (especially GMO)
Vegetable Oil
Artificial Sweeteners
Alcohol (more than one drink)
Fried Foods
Processed foods
Refined (white) flour
Dairy (especially from animals that eat GMO grains) - of course goat milk causes a lot less inflammation.
Commercial beef - specifically beef that is fed GMO grains. Strictly grass fed beef doesn’t seem to cause inflammation.
Foods with Artificial flavoring and chemicals (Propylene Glycol comes to mind)
Saturated Fats
Trans Fats
Processed meats (bologna, hotdogs, salami, etc)

Here is a partial list of foods that fight inflammation:

Some of the best healing remedies to overcome inflammation also taste fabulous (I can’t say that about any prescription medications). Plus, foods won’t cause the nasty side effects common to most pain medications.

1. Blueberries: Blueberries are also excellent anti-inflammatory foods. They increase the amounts of compounds called heat-shock proteins that decrease as people age.  When heat-shock proteins are in short supply inflammation, pain and tissue damage is the result.

2. Cayenne Pepper: Ironically, cayenne pepper turns DOWN the heat on inflammation due to its powerful anti-inflammatory compound capsaicin.

3. Celery and 4. Celery Seeds: James Duke, Ph.D., author of _The Green Pharmacy_, found more than 20 anti-inflammatory compounds in celery and celery seeds in his research, including a substance called apigenin, which is powerful in its anti-inflammatory action.  Add celery seeds to soups, stews or as a salt substitute in many recipes.

5. Cherries: While many people opt for aspirin as their first course of action when they feel pain, Muraleedharan Nair, PhD, professor of natural products and chemistry at Michigan State University, found that tart cherry extract is ten times more effective than aspirin at relieving inflammation.

6. Dark Green Veggies: Veggies like kale and spinach contain high amounts of alkaline minerals like calcium and magnesium.  Both minerals help balance body chemistry to alleviate inflammation.

7. Fish: According to Dr. Alfred D. Steinberg, an arthritis expert at the National Institute of Health, fish oil acts directly on the immune system by suppressing 40 to 55 percent of the release of cytokines – compounds known to destroy joints and cause inflammation.

8. Flax seeds and Flax Oil: Flax seeds are high in natural oils that convert into hormone-like substances in the body to reduce inflammatory substances. Add ground flax seeds to smoothies, atop pancakes or French toast, and many other foods.  Do not heat.

9. Ginger: Dr. Krishna C. Srivastava at Odense University in Denmark found that ginger was superior to non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) like Tylenol or Advil at alleviating inflammation.

10. Raspberries, 11. Blackberries, and 12. Strawberries: In Dr. Muraleedharan Nair’s later research she discovered that these berries have similar anti-inflammatory effects as cherries.

13. Turmeric: Research shows that the Indian spice frequently used in curries suppresses pain and inflammation through a similar mechanism as drugs like COX-1 and COX-2 inhibitors (without the harmful side effects).

14. Walnuts: Like flax seeds, raw, unsalted walnuts contain plentiful amounts of Omega 3 fatty acids that decrease pain and inflammation.

https://www.eatthis.com/foods-that-cause-inflammation/inflammation

***
Fermented foods help decrease inflammation:

https://www.eatthis.com/anti-inflammatory-foods/
Blueberries
Raw Oatmeal
Ginger
Green Tea
Dark Chocolate (60-70%+)
Wild Caught Salmond (never farmed fish!)
Turmeric
Red Beets
Broccoli
Black Beans
Extra Virgin Olive Oil - NEVER heat!  Best if used cold.
Chia Seeds
Pineapple
Spinach
Free Range Eggs
Garlic
Fermented Foods
Bone Broth
 Almonds

Not all foods, above, are listed. There are some foods on the list at the above link, that  am not so certain about a few of them, like tomatoes, Other items (not listed), I am on the fence about.

**********
I make a lotion, that I sell at Farmer’s Market, that really helps with joint and muscle inflammation. In addition to that it also helps with nerve pain (Fibromyalgia, neuropathy, restless leg, etc) and chigger, tick, mosquito bites and wasp stings.  It has ten anti-inflammatory essential oils in it.  I sold out this past weekend and am waiting for ingredients to arrive in the mail, so I can make more.
**********
Here are some links with more information about inflammation and how to help control it:
http://fermentedfoods.bodyecology.com/articles/chronic-inflammation

I know you aren’t crazy about sauerkraut, but it is more than a food that you like or don’t like the taste of it.  Cultured foods have an amazing ability to heal the body, decrease inflammation, build up the immune system, which resides in the gut, and elevate the body’s pH. A large percentage of people, in this country, walk around with dangerously low body pH, which can lead to inflammation and infection.  Bacteria thrive in an acid environment. By lowering your pH, you can lower your risk of getting bronchitis and pneumonia during flu season, not to mention the myriad of other infections that people commonly take antibiotics for.  Anyway, here are two websites that have great information about eating fermented foods, and how it can make you healthier.

https://www.culturedfoodlife.com/

Donna Schwenk has an amazing story about how fermented foods radically changed her life and that of her family.  Here is her website:

https://www.culturedfoodlife.com/

**********
I know this works, because I used to eat like you do, and as you know, I eat a lot differently now, following the anti-inflammatory diet, and have a LOT less pain than I used to have.


----------



## greybeard

Wwll LS, there go all the foods you really like........


----------



## RollingAcres

@Latestarter all that pain and inflammation, yikes! I sure hope you find some relief soon!


----------



## Baymule

Dr. Devonviolet just fixed you up! I will add that turmeric does work. It is nasty tasting, never mix it in a drink. I mix it with coconut oil to make a paste, swallow a spoonful and chase it with something to drink to wash it down. Within 30 minutes I can feel the difference. It does help.


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Dr. Devonviolet just fixed you up! I will add that turmeric does work. It is nasty tasting, never mix it in a drink. I mix it with coconut oil to make a paste, swallow a spoonful and chase it with something to drink to wash it down. Within 30 minutes I can feel the difference. It does help.


You are absolutely right, Bay. Turmeric is an excellent anti-inflammatory.  However, I really don’t like the taste. I would be tempted to add a bit of raw local honey.

There are quite a few herbs and supplements that can be taken for inflammation.  However, after a long day in the kitchen, my brain isn’t functioning too well right now.  I have to get back in there, to make a nice big batch of homemade, sauerkraut. YUM!!!  I was eating a small bowl of it this afternoon, when I took a small break from making up a big batch of pickled, sweet, spicy fermented beets. They are on the counter fermenting, as I write this.


----------



## Mike CHS

I found I can add turmeric along with some cinnamon over cottage cheese and you can barely tell it's there.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I just take the capsules...


----------



## Mini Horses

frustratedearthmother said:


> I just take the capsules...



I have them here and take maybe every other day.   I do take 2 supplements daily … Vinpocetine & Huperzine A.  Both are herbal derived concentrates and have been used to support brain cells for years in ancient culture.   Memory -- they do help.  It's the dementia thing I worry about.   The turmeric & Krill Oil I throw in a couple times a week.  

So where's that natural favorites thread ?????


----------



## greybeard

It's always easy to 'claim' things. (like the 'grassfed' beef 'doesn't seem' to cause inflammation) claim.
Tumeric. I'm mostly ambivilent to it's properties and use. I do use it, as a spice/seasoning and quite a bit of it particularly in the meat rub I buy and make and in my chili recipe. With one exception, I do not take any kind of supplement, never have and never will, nor (with one exception) do I take any kind of pain medication. That  exception is the 1 a day 81 mg aspirin as my sole blood thinner. The supplement that is the single exception is CoQ10 and it is by direction of my primary care physician tho I have serious doubts as to it's necessity or it's efficacy.

FDA has a designation for all things it considers a food or medicine. GRAS. Generally Accepted As Safe. Tumeric does have this designation as a spice and food additive, but FDA has been clear that it does not assign this designation to Tumeric as a health supplement.  As a food additive for seasoning and flavor purposes it does give tumeric a GRAS designation but only to the limit of "up to 20mg/serving".  (Pg 1629 of the paper linked to below)
20mg by the way= 0.00071oz or 0.004 teaspoons.
One supplement maker did request GRAS designation from FDA for Tumeric in it's supplement and FDA declined but simply said "We have no questions regarding Tumeric at this time" . Tumeric as a supplement ingredient is not on any readily accesible GRAS list.

There has not been (to my knowledge) a single accepted blind study upholding the claims of tumeric as any kind of health aid or preventative, much less a cure for anything. There have been many bogus 'studies' done and repeated publicly tho, the 1st being in 1937. Most by people with a financial incentive to laud tumeric's 'healing qualities'.

http://time.com/4633558/turmeric-curcumin-inflammation-spice/
The abstract of the study:
_Curcumin is a constituent (up to ∼5%) of the traditional medicine known as turmeric. Interest in the therapeutic use of turmeric and the relative ease of isolation of curcuminoids has led to their extensive investigation. Curcumin has recently been classified as both a PAINS (pan-assay interference compounds) and an IMPS (invalid metabolic panaceas) candidate. The likely false activity of curcumin in vitro and in vivo has resulted in >120 clinical trials of curcuminoids against several diseases. *No double-blinded, placebo controlled clinical trial of curcumin has been successful. This manuscript reviews the essential medicinal chemistry of curcumin and provides evidence that curcumin is an unstable, reactive, nonbioavailable compound and, therefore, a highly improbable lead.* On the basis of this in-depth evaluation, potential new directions for research on curcuminoids are discussed._
The actual paper:  (it is long..reference to the numeral *1* is tumeric, or more specifically, it's base compound curcumin.)

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/ipdf/10.1021/acs.jmedchem.6b00975

If you actually read thru this paper, you will find it is unbiased, neither supporting nor critical of Tumeric's use as a homeopathic supplement. It merely breaks down the chemical properties of the compounds and puts a brighter light on the studies that have been done, and actually explains their shortcomings and why they are at best incomplete and at worst misleading with not-nearly-enough basis in fact. It plainly states more real & independent study needs to be done to replace all the anecdotal claims that are out there.

Beginning on pg1629, the paper addresses the claims of tumeric/curcumin as a preventative or cure regarding 4 most commonly  repeated claims. Dermatitis, colon cancer, Alzheimer and pancreatic cancer. The panacea claims go far beyond those 4 of course, as is usual with these type supplements.....and they always have going as far back as the traveling salesmen in horsedrawn buggies and wagons of the late 1800s. (not surprisingly, Tumeric is also claimed to be a cure for both hirsuteness and baldness all at the same time)  What a deal.........

FDA has historically had a 'hands off' policy toward holistic medicine and 'natural' supplements but that is probably about to change.
FDA in the last 18 months has announced it will revisit it's mostly neutral stance on holistic or alternative medicine supplements following the illness of an infant that was using a 'homeopathic all natural' teething pain product.  The general consensus is that FDA will soon require  more stringent labeling on all questionable homeopathic panacea supplements including something to the effect of:
"This product has not been proven to have any significant health or medicinal benefit, value or qualities".


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all, and especially to @Devonviolet as I know she normally uses her phone, and I know it took a vast amount of time/effort/bandwidth/etc. for her to post all that information. It's very nice to have such good friends... all of you! That being said, I must confess that I have experienced zero success with "holistic/natural" remedies... I know others who swear by it and espouse to the immediate improvements they've experienced, but I'm sorry to say I'm either a block of concrete, or just some sort of alien because I have never experienced anything of the sort.   And I HAVE tried them! (some) They just have not worked for me.  

I know what I have to do to "fix" my present problems, and apparently I am unwilling to go to the lengths the doctors wish me to go to to achieve the desired effects. Nothing I do is going to bring back my halcyon days of 30s and 40s. I'm kinda beyond that now. I need to completely change 60 years of dietary history and practice. I have to lose approximately 100 pounds (I've started on both, it's a humble start but a start none the less). And I need to get exercise/move despite it hurting when I try to do so. Kind of a chicken or the egg thing... need to lose weigh to exercise, but exercising will help eliminate the weight. Tough to do work with hands that are too painful to work. Can't hammer if you can't grip/hold onto the hammer.   Tough to move around when your knees and ankles won't really function to support you.   So you do the best you can. 

I'm hoping and expecting that this too shall pass, as it has in the past. Not sure how long this episode will take to go away, but they always have in the past, with time. I'll try to stop boring you all with my personal health issues/problems. I can find other things to gripe and grumble about I'm sure. 

Son and family are gone. Daughter leaves next Tuesday. Goats and dogs are doing well. Have had rain storms the past several days so not as dry, but of course that means mowing is soon to be needed. Hope all are well and happy, enjoying their summer! I have 226 alerts showing, and insufficient time at the moment to go back through from where I left off. Hope to be able to catch back up soon. I did see that @CntryBoy777 has been issued eviction and hope you can find a new place Fred. Saw the recommendation that your lawyer file to prevent your sister from doing anything to/with the property until case is settled... very wise move. Hope you end up getting something out of it aside from hard feelings.


----------



## CntryBoy777

We are sure hoping so too, Joe!!.....we are suppose to sign lease papers tomorrow on a place we found....kinda in rough shape, but we can't be too picky....Gabbie is welcomed without any deposit and it is a fairly nice neighborhood with older people in it....the guy said that I could bring the goats if I wanted, but that would entail way too much work for such a short period of time that we have.....gonna make Gabbie an area with CPs and Tposts....the place is in bad need of some repairs and told the guy that I would help to work on it....he was shocked and said that we would work something out for the help.....thanks for the well wishes and sure hope that ya get some relief sooner rather than later. I'm calling the lawyer tomorrow to get some action going in the line of @greybeard 's advice....tho, I don't much see us coming back here, because we are being moved by a power much greater than humans possess and it is His will that we are committed to.....tho, I don't say that we will never, but for now and the next 6mnths we will not be.....


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Can't hammer if you can't grip/hold onto the hammer.


So true. I quit trying to split with a maul for the pain the shock caused in my hands. I don't nail much, I screw things together. Easier to take apart anyway. Still have to hold the drill but it doesn't need as much gripping.


----------



## Baymule

Joe I hope you get to feeling better. My Mom said we are like old cars. Parts wear out.


----------



## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> Joe I hope you get to feeling better. My Mom said we are like old cars. Parts wear out.



But it's true!


----------



## Mike CHS

It seems like it's always something.  I'm just getting almost full use out of my shoulder and not long ago my knee started giving out on me.   But like the saying goes, getting older with some problems beats the heck out of the alternative.


----------



## Latestarter

A little after 4am. Just finished up reading 10 pages of alerts and am all caught up to the best of my ability. When I checked new posts, there were an additional 6 pages of posts and sorry, but I'm just burned out at the moment so marked everything as read. Hopefully I'll be back and able to keep up. Read through a lot of folks experiencing bad happenings and rough times. Lots of losses as well. Best wishes to those folks having difficult times.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, My daughter is still here... I Dropped her at DFW Delta curb side baggage check, we said our goodbyes and I headed back out of there. Got an audio alert to a text so figured I'd better pull over and stop to read it. Glad I did. Her connecting flight out of JFK had been cancelled and her entire trip had been re-booked to leave tomorrow morning at 11am. So, $50 in gas and 5 hours down the drain for today and we'll get to do it all again tomorrow! :wee Turned around and went back and picked her back up. Just got back from Chili's for dinner. After the driving in heat today, neither of us felt like cooking or leftovers. I'm beat. Gonna need that alarm clock thing tomorrow. Hope I remember how to work it.

Gonna have to get up early and do animal chores right at daybreak or just before. Need to be on the road from here by 7am at the latest. Gotta say I'm very unimpressed with Delta... I don't anticipate using them again any time soon.


----------



## Mike CHS

Hated to "like" that post but BTDT


----------



## CntryBoy777

I've never been impressed with Delta....but, I don't fly anymore either.....tho, I know many don't have that option much .


----------



## RollingAcres

Well that just sucks! Hopefully her flight is on schedule today.


----------



## greybeard

Southwest is no better. My flight going  out of Little Rock on SW a couple years ago was cancelled twice in consecutive days because of connecting flight from DFW to Hou Hobby was screwed because of a late plane  coming out of Kansas City and the 3rd day the passengers complained so loudly, SW agreed to hold the plane on the ground at DFW so we could make the connection, but told us we would have to run to the connecting gate to make.  When I walked on at DFW, some one that had evidently been sitting aboard for a long time on the tarmac said "Finally, we get to leave!"


----------



## Latestarter

I've flown Delta on overseas flights and they have been great. I used to have issues with United but they went through bankruptcy and now do a decent job. American Airlines (now joined with US Air) kinda suck too. I think all of the airlines are running on such tight budgets and low margins that it's pretty difficult to provide the kind of customer service folks (used to enjoy and expect) look forward to. They basically need to fill planes to not operate at a loss and as a result routinely overbook flights by 15-20% or more. Then they cancel flights that are not full enough which throws schedules all out of whack. To add additional income streams, they now charge for bags and some even charge for snacks/drinks/meals on board.  Couple that with maint/equip/weather delays and it's really no wonder there are so many unhappy travelers. The stupid TSA and gestapo security doesn't help things either. Sure wish I owned my own aircraft... 

To the best of my knowledge at this point (they changed her connection city from JFK to ATL), she made it to Atlanta in time and boarded the flight to Portland Maine. If it took off on time, she should be arriving in about a 1/2 hour. She'll text me when she gets home so I'll know she made it OK.

She has called and is back home in Maine.


----------



## Baymule

That just sucks. Airlines no longer have good service. So many people take to the skies now that the airlines have people over a barrel. Crowded, treated like a criminal, overcharged, overbooked and treated like last week's leftovers. Gheesh. 

Glad your daughter finally made it home. I am even more glad that you got to spend some quality family time with your kids.


----------



## RollingAcres

Good to hear she's home safe.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Glad she made it home safely. 

It's always great to get some face to face time with our kids! Glad you had the company for a bit.


----------



## Mini Horses

Now that you've had all that great couple weeks of family time, you can get back to YOU -- and your own healthy improvements.   It will make life so much more enjoyable!

How's Mel & elf and the goats?   Are you still milking?  I have five in milk  but, one has 2 kids on her, another one but she needs weight & so I feed in milking stall, don't milk.  2 others have weaning doelings helping me, another small gal has just me.   Makes it easier when you have help     Some days only milk once.  More than enough, frig is full.  Need to make cheese.  Off work Sunday, so that seems the day to do.
I will HAVE to slow work if I need to milk more in Spring!

And that's the plan!  Home at least 75% more!  

Glad DD got home well after the prior delays.   It's not fun to get stuck "somehwhere" unplanned, especially alone.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> That just sucks. Airlines no longer have good service. So many people take to the skies now that the airlines have people over a barrel. Crowded, treated like a criminal, overcharged, overbooked and treated like last week's leftovers. Gheesh.


Back in 2004, it had been several decades since I had flown and I was taking an AA flight out of San Angelo into IAH by way of Abilene Tx.
When I finally got boarded in San Angelo, I was astounded by the size (lack thereof) of the interior, and it was no better when we reboarded another plane in Abilene. Even Piedmont air on the East coast back in the 70s had bigger aircraft than what I flew on during the  2004 flight. 


Could be worse I suppose...





This picture is 40+ years old and I know the (now) quite elderly pilot from another board. He says the sign above the co-pilot's windscreen said _"If the pilot makes it back, we all make it back"_


----------



## Latestarter

Absolutely LOVE the name of that airline... Plummet! like FALL FROM THE SKIES!... Wonder how they did for biz?


----------



## greybeard

That's what I said. "_Why didn't you just name it the Come Fall Out of the Sky from 15,000 Feet To Certain Death With Us Airline?_"


----------



## Latestarter

I let the goats out to roam and browse this morning right after chores. They were out for an hour and 1/2 then Dot headed in for water so I herded them all back inside the fence. That was right around 10 am and it was still reasonable out at around 88° degrees. It's now 7:45pm and is just now dropping below 100° I think it got to right around 102-103. The next several days are supposed to be even hotter. I think I'll continue to let the goats out into the fresh browse each morning for a couple hours. After they're done, they generally crash for 1/2 the day. I spent the better part of the day doing the same thing... in my recliner. I have the AC set to 72 at night and 75 during the day. May have to up that a bit more to try and save on electricity during the day. I can't sleep (even worse than normal) when it's hot/warm. I need it cool.

I let both dogs spend the day inside crashed on the nice cool hardwood flooring. Mel is back out with the goats now, they've been fed and penned and he's been fed and is digging his hole deeper. Elf doesn't seem bothered as much by the heat and actually wanted out late this afternoon and spent most of the late afternoon outside. Could be because he's so small and compact. Thinking that's gonna be the operational mode through the weekend at least. Hopefully a break in the heat early next week.


----------



## Mike CHS

It isn't as hot here but the humidity is painful.  I turn the air down to 70 at night but turn it up to 77 during the day since the HVAC can't beat the heat and will just continuously run.  It actually stays more comfortable if it has a chance to cycle on and off rather than non stop


----------



## Baymule

It was 102 on our screened front porch today. We can't catch our breath out on it, but at least the porch keeps the heat off the house. We are in run out, feed, run back to the house, hunker down mode. LOL


----------



## greybeard

Yes, it is hot here as well, about normal for 3rd week of July tho. 
Did some weed eating around the yard since I didn't finish spraying there yet, mowed what used to be my garden, then took a ride on the 4 wheeler around the place to look at the cows, the pond, look at all the fences and inspect the results of some frill and spraying I did on a few tallow trees late last week.
We really need some rain but I don't see it happening before mid next week at the earliest. My eldest sister has asked me to do some fencing at her place next week and I'm not looking forward to digging post holes in that hard dry ground, but I suppose I'll have to so she can keep her ag exemption.


----------



## RollingAcres

I guess I will just sit in the corner and not complain about the 85 degrees hot days here...


----------



## Baymule

RollingAcres said:


> I guess I will just sit in the corner and not complain about the* 85 degrees hot days* here...





That is spring/fall weather here!


----------



## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> That is spring/fall weather here!



And my fall here is your winter! We Northerners (@Bruce ) get laughed at for complaining about 85 degrees hot days by y'all Southerners but we laugh at y'all when we hear about school/offices being shut down for snow flurries.


----------



## Baymule

Y'all got all the snow/ice equipment...…..we got nuthin'.


----------



## RollingAcres

I know! I get it, I used to live in the south.


----------



## Latestarter

I just got back from meat shopping. 103° in the shade here. Local store had whole chickens on sale for .77/lb. I bought 5+ pound whole processed chickens for ~$4.  They had split chickens (fryers) advertised for .97/lb. I didn't see them so asked a meat guy where they were and he asked if I wanted him to split the whole chickens at no additional cost.  I said HELL YEAH! So asked him to split 4 chickens from the whole birds and paid .77/pound for them  Maybe should have had him split a dozen at that price...

I can't/couldn't buy and raise frankenchickens for that price. Not even considering the labor involved with raising them.

At another local store they have pork butts on sale for .99/lb, limit 3/day, got my 3 and he said they only had one more case and no more in till Sunday. 2 other folks were waiting with me when he brought the case out. Needless to say that box was gone when I left. Each of us took 3. I may go back beginning of the week and pick up three more. I also picked up 3 more St, Louis rib racks @ 1.97/lb. Already had 4 or 5 full racks in the freezer, but it's such a good price.... I couldn't buy, raise & butcher/pkg a hog for those prices either...

Had the goats out again this morning. Boy is it getting hot earlier. They're getting a lot more exploratory on me and it's getting a bit more challenging to keep them from scattering to the winds. Mel is crashed on the living room floor and Elf is out hiding under the deck. Nap time for me I think.


----------



## RollingAcres

Wow good deal! You can have a huge BBQ and we will all be there! 



Latestarter said:


> Nap time for me I think


You won't be able to sleep tonight if you take a nap at this time.


----------



## Latestarter

At my age a nap matters little to my night's sleep... I don't sleep well regardless, making the nap all the more important to my overall well being.


----------



## Bruce

I don't take naps on purpose, I fall asleep reading forums.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> I don't take naps on purpose, I fall asleep reading forums.


 are you saying we "bored" you to sleep???


----------



## Bruce

No, I'm saying if I'm not moving I'm likely to fall asleep! Narcolepsy doesn't help but I can't blame it all on that.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I also picked up 3 more St, Louis rib racks @ 1.97/lb.



Not a really great price unless they were a lot meatier than most.
heb has been running full spare rib slab for $1.79/lb, which I consider a St Louis style plus deal, since there's nothing on a St Lois style rack that isn't on the spare ribs.

Of course if you want the all natural, free range, non-gmo, nothing added, gluten free, 100% organic ribs, never touched directly by human hands, blessed by the gawds themselves, and raised on a secret pristine island with nothing but pigs and unicorns on it,  then they are (Drum roll please) :


----------



## Baymule

greybeard said:


> Not a really great price unless they were a lot meatier than most.
> heb has been running full spare rib slab for $1.79/lb, which I consider a St Louis style plus deal, since there's nothing on a St Lois style rack that isn't on the spare ribs.
> 
> Of course if you want the all natural, free range, non-gmo, nothing added, gluten free, 100% organic ribs, never touched directly by human hands, blessed by the gawds themselves, and raised on a secret pristine island with nothing but pigs and unicorns on it,  then they are (Drum roll please) :
> View attachment 50454


Just what I wanted! Until you got to the unicorn part. No unicorn contamination on my pigs! No Siree! Nope!


----------



## Bruce

Yeah I don't think we know enough about unicorns to know they won't cause some sort of contamination to we humans!


----------



## Latestarter

Ahhhh excellent, I get post #5000   Now to make it something worthwhile.

As some may know and most who own goats DO know, they are cute, they are entertaining, they make great pets, they are funny some times, their milk is delish, and above all, they can be very DESTRUCTIVE!

So as my recent batch of kids have grown, they have become extremely rambunctious. This has rubbed off on a few of the adults as well. In the past couple of weeks, they have decided that the hoop house makes a wonderful climbing wall/trampoline. Much more fun when climbing it from a running start. Today, they were finally successful in a complete redesign, however, to their detriment, they lost their climbing wall, the trampoline, and indeed, even their shelter... I submit the following as evidence of all of the above:






 



 
As you can see, even my big heavy buck decided to take part in the redesign. I have tried to bend cattle panels and it is not an easy thing to do but they made it happen like child's play.

I'm looking forward with some glee to seeing their reaction the next time we have a T-storm...   I suppose I ought to at least attempt to repair/replace some sort of shelter for them before winter...  Hmmmmm


----------



## RollingAcres

SMH....kids!  Well you know that some adults are just overgrown kids(even the human ones!)


----------



## Mike CHS

Oh My!!!  My sheep won't be nearly as comfortable this winter.  I'm replacing tarps but they only cover the top half of the hoop houses.  I'm putting plywood on the bottom where they rub but there will still be wind.


----------



## Hens and Roos

it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt...in this case it was their shelter!


----------



## Baymule

Their faces clearly say: 

*D-AAAAD!! FIX IT! PUT IT BAAAAACK!!!*


----------



## Bruce

Oh my. Having bent some cattle panels I know:
1) It is NOT easy to do, Those are some talented and strong goats.
2) You are gonna have some fun trying to get it back into anything the resembles a hoop.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It appears to me that they are looking to relocate to some of the "greener grass".........guess ya could try a "hawg house" for them next.


----------



## Latestarter

So yeah... those CPs are never gonna be straightened out... They are overlapping at the seems too and they still have been flattened. I don't have the $$ but don't have a "choice" either... have to do something... Was hoping the hoop would be sufficient till I could afford ground leveling and barn building. Not so much anymore. Working on plans for a short term building with raised floor out in the pasture/pen area that won't interfere with the future barn space. That way I can remove it after the barn is completed. Thinking 24' x 16' with a 4' "porch". I'll section/separate/enclose the far end of it to a separate enclosure maybe 6' x12' for the buck/wethers while preventing breeding, and then as a jug for kidding in the spring. <sigh>


----------



## Mike CHS

I guess it's an understatement to say they destroyed those panels.  I'm not sure how you could have prevented that either.


----------



## goatgurl

what bad kids you have but you know how teenagers can be.  my goats have done a lot of bad things but they have never torn down their own shelter.  I hope you can figure something out before they melt in the rain.  and just an fyi, you can straighten out cattle panels, not easy but it can be done.  don't ask how I know.


----------



## greybeard

goatgurl said:


> and just an fyi, you can straighten out cattle panels, not easy but it can be done. don't ask how I know.


Yep. I have straightened several that trees fell on around Dad's old barn and they were in a lot worse shape than what I envision is under that tarp. They were never 'perfect' or 'like new' again but they were pretty straight.


----------



## Bruce

goatgurl said:


> and just an fyi, you can straighten out cattle panels, not easy but it can be done. don't ask how I know.


Heck with not asking, just go over and help Joe fix them!


----------



## Mini Horses

Well -- the goats sure look good!  

You know it's the kids who love to jump.   Do they have some toys?   Stumps to jump on?    Well, that seems to be what they thought the hut was for!  At least your truck wasn't out there.

Can you pony wall the site there & hoop the top?   I can sure understand the $$$ part!  

(Hope your gout is better.)


----------



## Latestarter

Power just came back on. Was off for about 2 hours. Tried to go to bed but couldn't sleep. Mind was wandering all over thinking about what a generator would cost if the power didn't come back on by morning. Other things I could use the generator for if I bought one. Where to buy and what brand, best price, etc. How to research those details with no power for computer and internet (hate using phone for internet).  Lots of other miscellaneous stuff got mixed in as well. Really kinda funny how the mind works (or not...).

Got about 4-5 hours of mowing done earlier today. Would have gotten more done but the cutting deck threw the belt so had to stop and re-install it. Getting much faster at doing it now since I've had a few opportunities to "practice" the procedure. The actual re-install took about 1/2 hour. Mowed the front, back & side yard, a small portion of the front & back pasture, the driveway and the road frontage. Tomorrow's weather is supposed to be similar so I think I'll take the goats outside the fence for an hour or two early, then try to concentrate on getting the back pasture done.

Did the mowing wearing long pants, a long sleeve faux 1/2 turtleneck and a cap. I have my typical rash all over my upper body and upper arms, and I seem to get it worst after mowing due to all the dust and debris blowing all over me. Figured I'd try and see if I could keep it off me for the most part. So dry and dusty here that I really should wear a dust mask as well. I have a package but they're the really cheap kind that won't hold their shape so don't block much dust as they don't seal to the face real well. They also block lower vision. Need to check into the more expensive/heavier kind.


----------



## greybeard

I've always found paper dust masks difficult to breath thru, even right out of the box. The ones with the valve are a little better.
*116304 3M™ 8835*






I usually use one of these when spraying:
http://www.auto-gadget.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=57350


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Other things I could use the generator for if I bought one. Where to buy and what brand,



WOW -- 2 hrs is stressing you?   Well, it IS annoying to have no computer, middle of night and can't sleep.   Yeah, sure is.  Been there.

I bought one 7 yrs ago @1,300 on sale.  8 run & 10 surge, electric start, etc.  I have never needed to use it.    But, mom was here then & I needed equipment to run, lights, etc. for her.  Plus, well pump had to run (big pull! -- deep well))   Also had co-op install behind meter plug (50 install & 12.50 mo rental) to use as whole house, knowing I must control breakers to assure no 220 jump ons at once --hot water, etc.   Gotta tell you tho, it takes a bull elephant to move the darned thing!!  Even with wheels. That rascal weighs several hundred pounds!!  A Generac.  Figured they made those whole house ones, should know what they're doing.  Drawback, besides weight, it's gas powered.  

In 19 years here I've only had two times with power out more than 36 hrs.  One was 9 days and that was rough.  Self & 2 kids shared a small generator I had, every 8 hrs.  I filled with water from their shallow wells as it was moved between us.  It was a hurricane event, early summer.   Kept our frig/freezers going  -- main issues -- I needed animal water every day.   If not for the well pump, I'd have bought way less & run cords. 
$150 yr rental on device could have now pd for the inside breaker box add on & electrician to do.  At the time, didn't feel I had the $500 to do.  We all do what we need at the time, right?

I don't even drag the thing out for power until we are approaching 8 hrs.  It can start & test run where it is.  DS borrows sometimes for a job with no power source for his tools.

Big expense...think about it.  Smaller may work fine.  Nice to have tho.     Especially if you are on a "non-priority" power line.  Far less than the $20K solar I'd like to have  

Would love to share some of my rain with you!   I feel your pain with the mowing.   I have a DR pull behind mower that allows me to adjust the height way above the mower -- Probably 14-1800  cost now but, use it rarely since I bought the tractor & hog.  Worked great to keep higher with no tractor.  Probably need to sell it.


----------



## Mike CHS

I have a Troybilt 7000 watt generator that I have had since just after Hurricane Ivan when I lived in Pensacola in 2004 I think.  I had over 20 people that had major damage in their houses and we were at the end of a road that was going to take a week or more to get open.  Luckily I had an almost empty chest freezer so everyone brought all of the food that was salvageable and we wound up not getting power back for 32 days. We ran the freezer, a small refrigerator, a small window A/C and a couple of lights.  I start it regularly still and let it run but it hasn't had major use for several years.  I do put it in the trailer and haul it out to various places to use power tools so I don't have to mess with battery tools losing their charges.  I have even taken my contractor table saw out to use in the field.


----------



## greybeard

It's hard to beat a Generac and those with Honda engines are the quietest. Mine is 7.5kw B&S powered, elec or rope start and other than it's weight, the racket is my major complaint about it..the constant loud drone you can't escape. Would probably help if I moved it off the front porch. You can pick one up cheap around here now since we haven't had a need for one lately, but let a hurricane popup in the gulf and they'll almost all be gone in 24 hrs.

Product Series GP7500E Model (Configuration) 5943-4, 5943-5 (EPA) 5978-2 (EPA/CSA)
AC Rated Output Running Watts: 7500 AC
Maximum Output Motor Starting Watts: 9375
AC Voltage 120/240 VAC
AC Frequency 60 Hz
Rated VAC Amperage 62.5/31.3
Max Rated VAC Amperage 78/39.1
Engine Displacement 420cc
Engine Type OHV
Engine RPM 3600
Recommended Oil 10W-30 / SAE30
Lubrication Method Splash
Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) Yes
Choke Location On Engine
 Fuel Shut Off On Fuel Tank
Starting Method Electric/Recoil Pull Start
Low Oil Shutdown Method Low Level
Battery Type 12VDC, 10AH Battery Charger Input Jack Included
 Neutral Bonded to Ground Yes
Unit Weight lbs (kg) 191.5 (86.9)


----------



## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> Far less than the $20K solar I'd like to have


More than that. With solar you need to have battery backup or the panels stop generating when there is a power outage. Can't chance frying a line worker when they are working on reconnecting things "downstream". Even though there is a labeled shut off switch at the meter that the power company can turn off when they need to ensure nothing goes on the line. 

The power company here does have a new thing where they put in a battery backup that THEY can use except during an outage. They guarantee not to take your batteries down below a certain percentage. And if the power goes out, you can use power from the batteries but not until then and the panels continue to charge the batteries. 10 year contract for $1,000 which is cheaper than a generator but I'll bet the homeowner gets to pay for all the "in house" electrical changes necessary. Like apparently you need a sub panel because you can't have circuits that draw more total amps than the battery inverter puts out. I guess one would have to rewire some things like refrigerator, well pump, some lights to the new subpanel. Probably forget any 220V stuff. I think the battery is a 7 kWh size. That would last us 1/3 of a day if everything was running normally AND it started out full.


----------



## Latestarter

Was out and about today. Had to purchase goat feed so swung by Home Depot and took a look at hedge trimmers. The hedges in front of the house haven't been trimmed since I bought the place and they needed it badly. I already have a Dewalt 20v hammer drill that came with 2 batteries and a charger and I didn't want to be dragging an electric extension cord along so looked and sure enough, Dewalt makes a 20v battery powered trimmer. Advertised to cut through up to 3/4" and showed more power than the AC electric models.




Was only $129.00 (trimmer only) so I picked one up. Used it when I got home and man, that puppy cuts great! And I didn't have to worry about cutting a/the cord! 

Now that the hedges are a little more under control I was actually able to find a water spigot out front that I assumed had to be there someplace but wasn't able to locate. Now that I'm sitting here typing this I'm a little upset with myself that I didn't also pick up a dust mask like recommended by GB while I was there. Forgot all about it...  Next trip I guess.

I did swing by and get a big mac and the accompanying 50 yr anniversary coin for a free one to follow.


----------



## Devonviolet

Hahaha!  I just noticed that you were “liking” my posts while I was “liking” your posts.  Funny how that happens sometimes.

I don’t have much time to get onto BYH these day, with baking for farmer’s market.  I should be baking right now.   I was SO sorry to hear about your goats pushing your hoop hut over! What a shame.  DH and I would be game to go over and try to help you unbend the cattle panels. It might be doable if you take the panels apart, so we would be working on one panel at a time.  I am wondering if you could stabilize the hoop by putting some 2x4s  across the top of the hoop and attach with some kind of clamp, to the wire. 

One thought, for a less spendy shelter, would be like the one that we have (that was here when we bought the place). You could cut cedar trees, from your woods, to use for 4, 8 foot posts, and use 2x4s (or even more smaller cedar trunks) to build framing on to those posts.  Sheet metal only costs $1.69/linear foot at ETAS in Mineola.  That would make a nice, sturdy, three sided, run-in shed, for keeping the goats dry this winter

When you talked about the 24x16’building, were you talking about a temporary shed or your barn?  Our barn is 16x24, and is a good size for us.  Although, I thought I remembered you mentioning that you wanted a bigger barn than ours.


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## greybeard

Cheapest and easiest animal rigid shelter to build is an 'A' frame.  Down side is the lack of head room near each side.


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## Latestarter

No, the animal housing I'll build will be temporary in a permanent sort of way. It will be raised flooring with joists, 6' height at back, 8' at front, single slope roof, closed on back and one side, partial closed front, and 2nd entry on the other side. Partitioned so the side entry can be completely separate from the front entry for the buck(s). RJ is already starting to get a bit precocious and rubbing on their necks and flanks with his face. That means I have to get started pretty quick here and get him separated. I do NOT want January kids and do not want him breeding this years doelings. Depending on what your little buck produces, maybe I'll ask to borrow your buck and produce some 1/2 meat goats...


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## Baymule

At $80 to $95 for processing a goat/sheep that can be some pretty inexpensive meat...… not counting purchase price of parents, feed, hay, infrastructure, gas for feed store trips, fencing, shelter, cereal snacks...….


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## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> At $80 to $95 for processing a goat/sheep that can be some pretty inexpensive meat...… not counting purchase price of parents, feed, hay, infrastructure, gas for feed store trips, fencing, shelter, cereal snacks...….



OR process yourself and save that money for more feed!!!


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## Bruce

After you pay off the "meat utilization" course where you learn about cutting up and packaging various cuts of meat


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## frustratedearthmother

Two words:     1. You  2. Tube


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## Bruce

True! That didn't exist when I was in college. But that was a "few" years ago.


----------



## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> OR process yourself and save that money for more feed!!!



Do you cut the chops? When I butchered hogs, I just took out the loin (boneless) and didn't cut the bones to make chops. If I could cut the chops, I would do more of my own processing. 
FEM do you shoot your goats and process them? I'm pretty hard core, but haven't brought myself to be able to kill a lamb.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

The ones that we butchered a couple years ago, we did cut chops.  We started out with a hack saw and ended up using a Sawzall, lol.  Makes it a whole lot easier!  This last one we did a couple weeks ago was boned  out like you did with your Red Wattles and we ground and/or made sausage out of the whole thing.

I haven't shot the ones we processed - but I have put down several myself.  Not fun, but had to be done.


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## Baymule

I used a Sawzall, but it splintered up the bone. Bought a meat saw, and used a hack saw. Slaughtering pigs doesn't bother me, but those cute lambs......load'em up!


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## frustratedearthmother

Neighbor loaned us a blade that did a pretty good job of NOT splintering.

I've butchered a lamb and a goat on my own. (dh shot 'em) but I did the rest. The way I have to look at it is that as soon as they're dead   they're not cute anymore - they're meat.   I want to get another goat done...had a wether that I was gonna do this fall - but somebody offered me money for him so he got to go live in their freezer.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> I used a Sawzall, but it splintered up the bone. Bought a meat saw, and used a hack saw. Slaughtering pigs doesn't bother me, but those cute lambs......load'em up!


Reminds me of the conversation in Silence of the Lambs.
What did you see Clarisse..what did you see?
Lambs...they were screaming.
They were slaughtering the spring lambs?


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## Mike CHS

I'm taking a big boy in to be processed Tuesday.  I do my own venison but when I take one of those it is winter and I'm not trying to beat 90 degree temps.


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## Mike CHS

We obviously don't have goats on our place but we love the meat. Our solution is to swap sheep meat with a friend who raises goats.  It works out pound for pound so it works for us.


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## Bruce

Baymule said:


> I used a Sawzall, but it splintered up the bone.


I believe "real" butchers use a band saw.


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## frustratedearthmother

I have a band saw....but I find it easier to take the saw to the hog rather than trying to take the hog to the saw, lol!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter, sir,

    This has nothing to do with the conversation thread.  I just thought I should let you know that I am now stalking you.  Don't worry, I first stalked Miss @goatgurl, then Miss @Rammy, and then Miss @Ridgetop, and they lived to tell about it!  And to show that I am an equal opportunity stalker, I am now stalking you -- I am starting with your very first post of your journal and then reading through all the way to the present.  I'll let you know when I am finally caught up.  BTW, thanks so much for your thoughtful posts to my journal as well.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Rammy

You better make a pot of coffee!


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## goatgurl

and pack a lunch too.  your gonna be there a while @Senile_Texas_Aggie.


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## Rammy




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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Yeah, I know.    I am on page 12, Jul 18, 2016, still chugging along!

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Latestarter

Well, let me give you one more to add... Hope all had a wonderful Sunday. I decided that my buck is getting too frisky to hold off any longer so I've begun the task of building him a separate pen and shelter to keep him away from the ladies until I want them bred. I saw him trying to mount one of the yearlings the other day. Not sure if he got her, but it appeared there was brief penetration and her back side looked "moist" afterwards. Also, the little hussy just stood there for him too, so I'm worried. So I spent the afternoon pounding T-posts into concrete soil and wiring up cattle panels. 

Would anyone familiar with using lute like to share with me the procedure? The humping really started recently and as soon as I get RJ sequestered, I think I'm going to lute all 10 of the does. Does it require a vet prescription (I guess it does)? I guess I can go visit Youtube and see if they have anything on it. So it's a 2ml IM shot... now I guess I need to contact my vet and see if I can get it there or get a scrip. 

So, can y'all guess what's more fun than pounding T-posts into concrete like soil? - - - - - Pulling them OUT of concrete like soil of course!   Even throwing my almost 300 pounds on the puller it took a LOT of effort to get them dislodged and out of the ground. So until we have some serious prolonged rain to soften the ground up a bit, I think fencing is gonna continue to wait. Man wouldn't it have been nice to have a tractor with a FEL or bucket to deal with this...  Actually, I guess the 3 point hitch with some chain would have pulled them too.

I also went to Home Depot and bought all the supplies to build him a 4' x 8' raised platform shelter. Will be 4' at the back, 5' at the front and enclosed on three sides. May also partially enclose the front. Haven't decided yet. Soon as the pen is completed, I'll start on the shelter. Hopefully that will be tomorrow. Then I need to start on the shelter for all the does.


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## greybeard

If tee post puller won't pull them, a high lift jack will.
Use with, or without a chain. 




 



 

TSC sells one but I I never used that kind,just the type above:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/metal-t-post-puller


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @Baymule and Miss @Devonviolet,

   I know I am posting on @Latestarter's journal, but I am really confused == I fear it is above my Texas Aggie I/Q.  As I said above, I am currently stalking Mr. @Latestarter and I am confused about a post you made, namely https://www.backyardherds.com/threa...gripes-and-grumbles.33505/page-24#post-440838.  In the post you said that it was a picture of you and your husband, Miss @Devonviolet and her husband, and Mr. @Latestarter himself.  Yet in the picture it looks like your and Miss @Devonviolet's daughters posed.  Is that right?

Senile Texas Aggie


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Also, the little hussy just stood there for him too, so I'm worried


So are you worried that the little yearling is a little hussy or are you worried that she might be pregnant?


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## Devonviolet

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> in the picture it looks like your and Miss @Devonviolet's daughters posed. Is that right?


  

Awww, aren't you sweet?  Actually, if I'm not mistaken, I have one year on you & a few years on "Miss" Baymule!


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## Latestarter

Yeah RA... she's only like 4.5 months old and about half her potential size. I don't think her having a kid at 10 months of age would have a good ending...   Better safe than sorry. She's gonna have to wait another year to satisfy her hussy ways...   I had a yearling get pregnant last fall (she was ~8-9 months old) and she had a single with no issues or assistance, but it stunted her growth and she has still not reached full size that she should be.

GB, I was using the black steel T-post puller you linked, along with the T-post puller "jack". 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




with a length of chain to the hook.

Those Texas Aggies sure are smooth talkers aye DV?


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## farmerjan

@Latestarter;  get him separated.  Then call the vet and tell him you need Lute and get a small bottle.  Yes it is vet.  No it is not real expensive.  I think you can get a 25 cc (ml)  bottle.  Wait 3 weeks and then see if she comes back in heat.  If not, give her the shot.  You can give it at 10 days after heat or breeding.  Any sooner, it won't do any good since the CL won't be forming and it will be like pouring water on the ground.  It causes the CL to dissolve which allows them to come in heat. If she does not come in heat after 3 weeks, then it is a good chance she caught, but if she comes back in heat, then she didn't catch. 
Of course, you can just give the shot and be done -  after the 10 days.   If he is getting active, and anyone else got bred, they could be further along.... but still should be safe to use. In cattle it often will not work after 100-130 days....since they are 9 months, I would think 6 weeks tops for sheep or goats but ask the vet.
This is why EVERYONE who has lambs with sheep or kids with goats, gets the males weaned off by 3 months.....and keeps them separate for the rest of their lives except during PLANNED breeding season. They are early maturing and they will catch a few.....


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## goatgurl

i'm of no help with the doeling.  I've never used lute, I hope you can find a vet that will sell you a bottle.  you want to do everyone? or just the this year kids.  I use a calf hutch for my buck shelter and put a pallet in the bottom for the floor to keep him up off the ground. easy to move if I need to do so.


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## Latestarter

Since I'm not sure who he's gotten to and who he hasn't, I don't want to take any chances, especially with this years doelings. As soon as I finish his solitary confinement pen and place him in it, I'll wait 13 days then lute them all. That way I can start fresh and wait till late September to start the process for real. None of this years babies are getting bred.

So I moved one wall of the pen and have finished his new house:



Here's the shed with RJ actually in it & L to R Champ (she who he already mounted), Beast (wether), and Three socks TS (wether). I'm considering, about 75% sure,that I'm going to enclose about 1/3 of the front to create an alcove inside. The open triangle areas will remain open for ventilation and air flow. Everything floor is PT and the plywood is PT. The wall studding and roof purlins are just regular 2x4 stock.


 
Here's what's left of the hoop house. I removed the trashed tarp and flattened it as best I could by jumping up & down on either side of the bend. I'm going to have to put a 4" "H" brace pole under the bent area and then try to bend it back the other way until straight.


 

So this has been my excitement for the past few days. Looked like we might get some rain earlier but it all stayed well to the north of me. I guess over the next couple of days, I'll just try not to break my wrists pounding & pulling T-posts and wiring up cattle panels for new pen shapes/designs.

So I found a tick on Elf's ear a week or so back. Since he's strictly a yard dog, that concerned me a bit. Today when installing the walls on RJ's shed, I looked down and there was a tick all settled in on my forearm. He hadn't broke skin yet and ended up squished, but that's 2 in less than a couple of weeks. I'm obviously not as tick free as I thought.


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## CntryBoy777

Looks like some nice work there Joe..........the CPs don't look bad either.....I had a couple that I used around the garden and used a hand held sledge....guess it is 3-5#....and leaned the panel against a tree and tapped it back in shape...it didn't take very much to get it fairly straight, but didn't have to wrestle with the whole 16' in doing so....with all the deer passing thru the ticks will certainly be there...seen or not....ya know some birds would be glad to give ya some assistance with them.....tho, I guess ya really aren't wanting to add any just yet.....


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> So I moved one wall of the pen and have finished his new house


I was a bit concerned when I saw the 2x4s on the flat for rafters ... then remembered you are in "no snow here" Texas.

Who says the cattle panel has to be even close to perfectly flat? The goats clearly don't care. I figure it is like chicken coops. The birds don't care if it is the Taj Mahal or a shack as long as they are comfortable. I bet goats are the same. Hoop it back up, stick a few 2 bys crossways at whatever height is appropriate for structural rigidity.

I see progress there Joe!


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## Mike CHS

You didn't waste any time getting that shelter put up.

Our tick problem seems to fluctuate but I don't go many places before putting on bug spray.


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## Mini Horses

You got a lot done!   Looks good.  He should love it.

Lute -- I've used it on my mini horses in the past.   It works.  Now, the mares would break into a heavy sweat within a couple hours after injection & that lasted a short time - maybe an hr.  (Been several years, close questimate on time)  No one seemed to get excited about it but me -- however, I just wanted to mention this as it may/may not be same with goats.   Just in case this happens, it goes away, so you know. 

If he's on fenceline, I'd keep a paper handy and note anyone who was obviously showing heat, then no need to med that one.  Less hassle, less RX, etc.  Once in a blue moon one will show and still be pg but seldom.  Most sniff, laugh and walk away if not cycling


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## Latestarter

Thanks guys.   Yup Bruce, no heavy snow down here and the span is only 8'. If I wall up 1/3 of it as I think I'm going to, the span will only be like 5', so those 2 x 4s should do the trick just fine. The roofing is polycarbonate, so very light weight. I used PT landscaping timbers for the base. I should be able to screw in some eye bolts and tow/move it if need be. Everything is screwed together but I doubt it would stand up to a tornado. As for the bent cattle panels, I'm not using those for another hoop structure. I need them relatively straight as they're destined to be used for what they are designed primarily for... fencing. Gonna really try to get back to it tomorrow but may need a day of rest as my feet and knees are really swollen (all the bending and lifting) and my hands are sore. The vibration and slamming of the T-post pounder really hurts. Also, the possibility of rain in the near future has me hoping for softer ground.

Mini, I remember how rambunctious he (RJ) was last fall when I brought him here as a 6 month old buckling. He was like a beagle on a rabbit's trail chasing Dot around the pen as soon as I intro'd him. I'm hoping at his present size and weight that he won't (try to/successfully) clear the 50" CP's I'm using to contain him.   I may have to pound rebar for ground and hook up hot wire up top to be sure. I hadn't planned to put up the hot wire until all/most of the fencing was in place.   Guess I'll know soon enough, right? For right now, the shed is open to the whole pen. Supposed to have a possibility of some rain over the coming days, so it will be interesting to see 13 goats all try to pile inside to avoid getting wet  Thanks for the heads up on the "sweating" after the shot. Since a 30ml bottle only costs like 20 bucks, and the shot is 2ml per, and I have 10 does total, 1 bottle shouldn't "break" me, and there will be enough left to do a couple (5) more if I need to, so little waste. 

I still haven't decided if I'll put one or both of the wethers in with RJ. There's room in the shed for all three. He'll still be able to see and interact with all the others, just not able to chase or mount them. Once I get RJ's place finished, I'll start on a similar but much larger structure for the rest. I don't think I'll use PT plywood for flooring or walls in that one though. I'm leaning toward using PT deck boards for flooring (& OSB for the walls) so I can leave space between each. It will be too big a structure to build it with a sloped floor (like I did with RJ's). I'm hoping (probably wishful thinking) that RJ won't pee inside his shelter, but if he does, it should run "down hill" toward the opening and out. In the doe's shelter, I know they're gonna pee inside...  Having "slatted"  pressure treated flooring will make that a no biggie. The pellets I can sweep out over time.

Total cost for that shed was right at $325.00. I expect the doe's shed to be around a grand or more.    Some of that cost was for excess material like screws and such that I'll still have to use on the next project. I built most of this in the bed of the pickup and under the carport then brought it down there with the wheelbarrow. The next one I'm not going to be able to do that so I'm going to need to run a long extension cord down to the pen and bring my power tools (primarily saws) down there. Also going to make it taller so I can stand inside. RJ's is 4' inside at the back and ~4' 8" at the front. Plenty high enough for him to stand inside, but not me.


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## Mini Horses

That's a good size for the goats, height wise, since only a couple and not a lot of "need" for you to go inside often.   Does, yeah, different.  You need easy walk in.  OF COURSE, you know to frame and build for size of panels for less cutting.   

My girls have a big shelter but they ARE learning that wet grass is survivable!  I mean, it is not cost effective to buy more hay when they are living bales of it out there    I do keep a couple for those downpour all day needs.   The doelings, like most kids, sometimes play in the rain, well sprinkles.    My older buck will even take a shower, now and then.

Younger Saanen I bought this Spring has THE cutest head of curls!   That breed tends to grow a topknot of hair.  His look like a curling iron was used.   Romeo will be a couple hundred pounds when grown but he is tame, like the other one (Nubian).   Still, they can push you down if they lean into ya.  One black, one white....easy to distinguish in a field.  

Goats have such personality!


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## RollingAcres

Nice job with the shed LS!


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## Rammy

Very nice. Now I Need to get you to come build me one of those!


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## Latestarter

Well Rammy, it only took me 2 days (in 95°+ temps) in the hot sun   Even though it left me stiff and sore, I'll take building something over running fence just about every time!

Jeeze Mini... now you want "Polish" goats to go with the Polish chickens? (Isn't the Polish the ones with the funny head dress? )   Yes indeed, I always plan building around convenient sizes to avoid extra work as well as waste. I'll be able to do so with the next one also, but not so much with the walls.  Gonna be 6' at back and probably 7' at the front. 8' would be too much slope.

The rain has come!     






Got that shelter done just in time (actually planned - just in case rain did happen as forecast).   Got woken up to torrential rain about an hour ago. Yes indeed, 13 goats DO fit inside it!    There was no thunder lead up... all quiet then boom, pouring rain. I got some pants on and got out to let Mel in as quick as I could. Elf was up sleeping on the back porch. Of course he was dry... until I ran out in the rain to let Mel in and he just had to come along. I let them both inside after a bit of toweling but Elf wanted back out. So, he's back snoozing on the porch. Down to off and on sprinkles right now, but radar shows more coming. There was some lightning after it started. And now there's distant thunder.

Now I have a legit excuse to not pound posts today  <whew> Not looking forward to milking Dot however. She's not completely filling after 24 hours anymore so I can put it off for a while. Gotta find a rain break to feed them their morning pellets as well. Not for fear of the goats getting wet, but the pellets are like little sponges and get ruined so quick in the rain, and the goats won't eat soggy pellets.


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## Latestarter

Mel woke me up barking around 6am. Heard a strange bark so jumped out of bed, threw some shorts & slip ons on and headed out the back door with the .22 to see what was going on. Turned out the neighbor up front (OTR trucker) decided to come home. He shows up every other weekend most times. Sky looks gray so decided I'd check the radar. Lots of rain to the south, moving north so went and did animal chores early. Now it seems the storms are drying out and dying right at the southern county line. Hope they have enough "oomph" to push a little rain up this way. Looks like @Devonviolet & @Baymule probably got or are getting some decent moisture.


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## Baymule

Yes! Finally getting RAIN! At last check, there was 1/4 inch in the rain gauge, but more coming down. We went outside to play with Beaux, the puppy, he was wound up with all the cool weather and running like crazy. Trip is recovering from a copperhead bite a few days ago, and just wanted to come in a sprawl out in the floor. He is running on his leg now, it's still a little swollen, but MUCH better.

Love the goat shelter. It looks really good. We build a similar structure, the Hawg Hut, it gets employed as a lamb shelter too. Now that we have the permanently stationed Pig Palace, the Hawg Hut will be for the ram. It is build on skids and we have dragged it from place to place. It is now on cement blocks.  You did a great job on your goat shelter.

The rain is really coming down now!  I set the water sprinkler on the peas yesterday evening...….and you can guess what I didn't do before going to bed. Yup, the peas were WELL watered and I cut the water off in the drizzle this morning  Oh well, it wasn't the first time and won't be the last. 

@Senile_Texas_Aggie picture of my daughter......


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## RollingAcres

I'll send my rain down that way to y'all.


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## Baymule

RollingAcres said:


> I'll send my rain down that way to y'all.


The loose sand is dry and about a foot deep before hitting hard dirt.


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## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> I set the water sprinkler on the peas yesterday evening...….and you can guess what I didn't do before going to bed. Yup, the peas were WELL watered and I cut the water off in the drizzle this morning  Oh well, it wasn't the first time and won't be the last.


Done that. And of course the day when you forgot to turn off the sprinkler it always follow by a rainy day the next day.


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## CntryBoy777

Glad y'all got some moisture over there finally....and Bay, I'm sure other things enjoyed the deep moisture ya gave them, besides just the peas.....


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## Mike CHS

We got an inch and a half day before yesterday and we were needing it.


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## Latestarter

Well, mine didn't amount to much... a few sprinkles for an hour or so. The goats only went in the shelter for maybe 20 minutes. It's still mighty gray here but the swath of rain in basically splitting in two with the empty part in the center going right over me   Lots of little scattered T-storms way down south, looks like concentric rings around Houston ranging out maybe 75-100 miles, all moving NE. Kinda disappointing, but I guess dampness is better than nothing. The ground here has "greened up" a bit with the rain the other morning and the sprinkles & humidity today.  Glad you've gotten some rain too Mike. You have such nice pastures.

Thanks Bay... the next shelter will be a bit larger project. Doubt it will get done in 2 days.  But I'm sure the she goats and wee goats will love it none the less. Glad to hear you're getting or got some good rain down your way. Looks like you're pretty much done with it now also. Still lots of humidity/moisture so maybe afternoon T-storms will develop. You left your sprinkler running... I've done that before as well. Couple of days ago, I went out and found the rear passenger door on the driver's side open... I had gone in there the day before for stuff I'd bought at Home Depot when building the shed. Guess I forgot to close it.  Thankfully, the interior lights went out so no battery loss. Then, after closing it, I almost did the same thing again later that day...   Wonder if I'm starting to get old timers disease... loss of short term memory is the start of it.


----------



## greybeard

We've got a little rain everyday this week, usually in the form of a fast moving, noisy thunderstorm. 20 minutes after the 1st clap of lightening or sighting the 1st dark cloud, it's usually moved off, and usually to the West or Northwest. 
But, we're green and the grass is tall for this time of year so I guess it all adds up tho I doubt my pond has seen more than 1-2 inches rise in level.


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## CntryBoy777

I doubt it is old timer's Joe....more like too much going on in your head and by the time ya get the bags dropped off inside and the cold stuff put away, ya have already thought of many more things to do besides retrace your steps to shut the door....so, don't be so hard on yourself....happens to all of us....


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## Bruce

I agree with @CntryBoy777 !! SO often that I think of something, start in that direction then see something I can do on the way and oops, forget what it was I was originally going to do.


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## farmerjan

Nah, not "old timers disease" but ADD .... Adult Deficiency Disease .....


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## Baymule

We got a sprinkle and drizzle. It wet the sand, but if I kicked it, it's dry underneath. Sprinkling now. We'll take anything we can get.


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## Latestarter

Looks like us (north) east Texans might get a little more wet today. Raining lightly here right now and looks like some decent stuff headed your way Bay. Hopefully it will continue my way after giving you some rain. Goats are in hiding and Mel and Elf are inside.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> I agree with @CntryBoy777 !! SO often that I think of something, start in that direction then see something I can do on the way and oops, forget what it was I was originally going to do.



Brother and I always called those "traps".  Avoid them.......keep your eye on the prize, always.


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## Latestarter

OK then... since finishing goat chores around 8:30 or so, we've had some pretty decent rain here.  Looks like Bay and DV have as well. Just had a pretty decent size T-storm cell pass over SW to NE. Looks like more rain coming behind it.   Can tell I need to replace all my windows as they are no longer "sealed" double panes. All of them are covered with condensation on the outside from the cool air/temp inside reaching the warm wet air outside...Old house, original windows.   Nice thing is I haven't lost power. Did lose internet and TV for a while... both are satellite, so figures/expected. DVD's and recliner are the order of the day.


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## Mini Horses

Love to sleep and hear the rain hitting on a tin roof.   Haven't had that in years -- my roof here isn't metal and a 2 story so don't hear it in the recliner.

Rain threatening here...probably couple hrs out.   Yesterday on way home from work we had rains that were so  bad you almost needed to pull over.  35 mph tops and everyone was polite, slow, no crowding, etc.  Doubled time to get home but, luckily, storm & I were moving into one another so I drove out about 2 miles from home!  Saved me from having to sit in the truck for a while.  The storm cell had passed above the farm and it was a soaking.   Don't know when I will ever get to mow again!  Only 2 days in 3 weeks with no rain...did mow yard one of those days.  Couple pastures will truly need a side cutter.


----------



## Baymule

We had a quarter inch from the past two days. Today we got 3/4 inch for a whopping total of ONE INCH!  The purple hull peas needed picking, so I went out in the drizzle and picked them. Good thing I did, a lot were at the ripe stage and with all the moisture, a few were getting moldy. DH was the smart one, he stayed inside and shelled them. When I was done, I came in, peeled off wet clothes, took a shower (I puzzled over that, I was already wet, why need a shower?) and put on pajamas. Then I helped DH finish shelling the peas. Cooked leg of lamb, peas and a salad for supper.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have an electric pea sheller that doesn't allow the social time like hand shelling but it sure is fast.


----------



## Baymule

We have a very small patch, maybe next year I'll plant a bigger one.


----------



## RollingAcres

The rain held off yesterday and until around 3.30 today. So i was able get part of the lawn mowed. Didn't do the hill side by the apple trees or the field by the well. 
Glad y'all in Texas got some much needed rain.


----------



## Devonviolet

Hey Joe.  I’m trying to quote your’s and Bay’s messages about the rain. I highlight, click “Quote”, then when ready, click “Insert Quotes”. The popup says “Quote these messages”. I click on that, and nothing happens. I tried multiple times. What’s up with that????

ANYHOOOO!  We ended up with 0.85” over the two days.  It thundered, lighteninged and POURED for about an hour and a half on Sunday morning.  The nice thing about it . . . It’s keeping the temps down. Hottest it got today was 88F.


----------



## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> Hey Joe.  I’m trying to quote your’s and Bay’s messages about the rain. I highlight, click “Quote”, then when ready, click “Insert Quotes”. The popup says “Quote these messages”. I click on that, and nothing happens. I tried multiple times. What’s up with that????
> 
> ANYHOOOO!  We ended up with 0.85” over the two days.  It thundered, lighteninged and POURED for about an hour and a half on Sunday morning.  The nice thing about it . . . It’s keeping the temps down. Hottest it got today was 88F.


Highlight, then click 'reply', not quote.


Baymule said:


> We had a quarter inch from the past two days. Today we got 3/4 inch for a whopping total of ONE INCH!





Latestarter said:


> OK then... since finishing goat chores around 8:30 or so, we've had some pretty decent rain here.  Looks like Bay and DV have as well. Just had a pretty decent size T-storm cell pass over SW to NE. Looks like more rain coming behind it


----------



## Latestarter

Devonviolet said:


> I highlight, click “Quote”, then when ready, click “Insert Quotes”. The popup says “Quote these messages”. I click on that, and nothing happens. I tried multiple times. What’s up with that????


  I just did exactly the procedure you outlined and you can see your text quoted above. I'm using a desktop computer though and you're on a phone so it may be different. Perhaps GB's way will work for you?


greybeard said:


> Highlight, then click 'reply', not quote.


 <---Done GB's way, just clicked reply and it moved the quote to here.


----------



## greybeard

If I choose 'quote' this is the popup I get:




However, nothing actually happens in my reply. No quote, no nothing.

If I choose reply under the highlighted text, the software  adds the text to where ever  my last cursor position was in the reply box, but no popup appears at the top, which is understandable as none would be needed. I've done it this way since the 1st day I joined BYH.


----------



## Devonviolet

I've always done it the way i said above. Wnen I clicked "quote these messages", all the messages, that I had highlighted went into the reply box. This time it didnt work. Next time i will try clicking "reply" instead of "quote". Hopefully thay will work.


----------



## Latestarter

When I high lite the text, this is what it looks like & asks if I want to quote or reply:



After I click "quote" I get the following screen display. It stays this way and I can high lite additional text and click the quote button as well to add other quoted text:



I then go down to the reply block where I'm typing my response and place the cursor where I want the quotes. I then press the "Insert Quotes" button (red arrow) and it opens a box with all the quotes I've high lited. I can then delete any that I don't want then select to "Quote These Messages" (blue arrow):



Once I click that, the following is what shows up in the reply box where I had the cursor placed. You can see both quotes have been entered in HTML:



When I click to "Post Reply":






greybeard said:


> However, nothing actually happens in my reply. No quote, no nothing.





Devonviolet said:


> Next time i will try clicking "reply" instead of "quote". Hopefully thay will work.



ETA: The new post appears showing the quotes as a web page with no HTML script right above here. (will add pic as edit to add):



.


----------



## Mini Horses

Since LS & I have pastures we are cutting -- AMPLE rain here, can't even get there to cut -- I'd like some input as to the quality of the grass that has been banked for winter graze.  While I sometimes have a couple small pastures that I use this way successfully, this year it may be a lot more!  

Those with livestock who do this, please input.   I do understand grasses vary in quality but, do you feel it is a worthwhile effort to decrease some hay?   So far I have had decent results -- never this much, this high.  Obviously the regrowth is not there as in a summer graze.


----------



## Latestarter

Isn't hay made of grasses? Many folks buy "grass" hay for their animals vice named hay such as alflafa or coastal or orchard, etc. It will lose some nutrition as it dies/dries, but how much? If the small ones worked why wouldn't the larger ones? I mean, if you know you can get hay later if needed, save the money and use what you have to start out... That's what I'd do. But then I'm a hobbyist, not a farmer, and very inexperienced. JMHO.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Once I click that, the following is what shows up in the reply box where I had the cursor placed. You can see both quotes have been entered in HTML:


The part that the lower right red arrow is pointing to is NOT HTML. It's BB.
HTML uses </> and BB Code uses [/]

The final version, after submitting is HTML, but not in the edit or reply box.

Your method seems like extra work to accomplish the same thing I do, but then again, I rarely use the little boxes at the top of the reply box and choose to just type out the bb code.  I have had trouble in the past, with an entire reply showing up as underlined or bold, or italics because the software insisted on what should have been  a short emphasized portion all the way thru the entire reply, even tho I
un-clicked the box. I would have to edit it, using the bbcode editor at the top right of the reply box (wrench over the sheet of paper icon) to get it straightened out.


----------



## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> Since LS & I have pastures we are cutting -- AMPLE rain here, can't even get there to cut -- I'd like some input as to the quality of the grass that has been banked for winter graze.  While I sometimes have a couple small pastures that I use this way successfully, this year it may be a lot more!
> 
> Those with livestock who do this, please input.   I do understand grasses vary in quality but, do you feel it is a worthwhile effort to decrease some hay?   So far I have had decent results -- never this much, this high.  Obviously the regrowth is not there as in a summer graze.



What kind of grass is it?
What you call 'banked'  is more often called 'stockpiling' and some  grasses pull it off lots better than others, and some (like Bahia) can't be stockpiled at all because they completely stop growing at 1st frost. Cool season grasses like Fescue and grasses like ky bluegrass do it extremely well. Bermuda can be stockpiled, but it's more difficult.
If you can set up movable or temp fences for strip grazing, it works really well.

Protein and TDN in stockpiled grass is as good or better than most hay of the same type, but stockpiled grass needs to be grazed down by mid Jan and certainly by Feb when the coldest weather hits. 
The big advantage of stockpiling is costs. Per animal/day--cattle:
 Haying: $.91 to 1.09/day x 80 days = $73 - $87 per adult animal during winter haying. 
 Stockpile + Stripgraze: .43/day x 80 days = $34.40
 $38.60 – 52.60/cow savings/year.
For my 25 head cow herd, that would be a cost savings of over $900/season (not incl labor of moving the cattle every few days or cost of the fences)
I do know (from other forums) that lots of people in Va do stockpile fescue, and are very successful with it. I intend to do it with crabgrass this year.


----------



## Mini Horses

Thank you, GB.    You have answered my question as to "holding nutrition".  YES, it sure cuts the hay costs.  The taller grass does help to shield/insulate the lower shaft & root/ground area from the severe temps.

 I have a mixture of crabgrass, orchard, fescue (endo free), Bermuda & a little bluestem.  The Bermuda is shorter lived due to cold but the rest does quite well into late Dec, normally.  If we have a "normal"  Fall/Winter, the grasses  grow to some extent into Nov/Dec & I limit graze time, control access to fields, so rotational.   My farm has several smaller fields fenced as I have goats & mini horses, so don't need more than 1.5-2 ac at a time, although some are close to 3. Wile I do & will offer hay, along with a small portion of supplemental protein/vit/min feed, it's 1X every other day.

Jan & Feb are generally our heaviest winter weather situations.   Then, pretty much best hay every day!


----------



## greybeard

Crab grass has done well here now that we got some rain. 
I need to turn the cows in on this, so it can come back before fall.



 

It has some sand burrs/sand spurs (whichever you want to call it) mixed in in one spot, but I'm going to cut it out.


----------



## Mini Horses

Those darned sand burrs are the pits!!  They don't just cut out!   Have them here and consider them worse than ANY other weed I have.   I have cut the burrs by hand & then singed the growth.  Helps but just one of those rascals and you have a zillion more.  Keeping it cut short helps then, something I am struggling with because of so much daily rain for several weeks.    They have a runner type root and wow.   Most areas are under control now but, still some out there with this growth.

Crabgrass is surprisingly good with nutrition if fertilized & watered.  Summer growth is unreal.  My chicken yards are full of it, so thick it's hard to mow, lots of fertilizer ...my chickens love to chase the young crickets that happen this time of year.   Free protein!   Fun to watch, also. 

Will be a good amount of stockpiling this year.   Rain & heat & limited mow action.  I won't complain but will try to harness it for good use.


----------



## greybeard

I intend to singe them too..........with MSMA.


----------



## Latestarter

Looks like @goatgurl is getting some real good water to fill her pond right now. She hasn't mentioned it in a while, so I'm hoping it's because it isn't down as bad as it was earlier. Not much going on here at the moment. Air is a little cooler and dryer after the storms passed through but still going to be low-mid 90s for daytime highs. I think total from all the rain, I got just below an inch. Not as much as I could have used, but it has really helped and the greenery has re-greened and started growing again. Hump day today for all you "workers" out there. Downhill stretch to the weekend. Least you have something to look forward to.  (sure love being retired! Don't love being on a fixed low income   Trade offs)


----------



## RollingAcres

3-day work week for me here.  Took Monday and yesterday off so I can spend some time with DS. Was going to take him to the fair to see monster truck show but the weather was crappy so we went to play lazer tag and arcade instead.


----------



## Latestarter

Sounds like fun there RA! Time spend with the kiddos is always a great thing!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

@Latestarter, I can't speak for Miss @goatgurl but 30 miles east of her at our place we have had quite a bit of rain the past couple of days.  Our pond was getting quite low but now has filled back up some.  BTW, I am on page 361 of your journal.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

It is not as good as rain, but it works...  I get to put 6 inches of "channeled" rain on the fields today!  It has been 3 weeks, so things are really dry.


----------



## Baymule

We got an inch of rain over the weekend, a slow drizzle that soaked in. We sure needed it!


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## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> BTW, I am on page 361 of your journal.


Well over half way!


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## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Hump day today for all you "workers" out there. Downhill stretch to the weekend. Least you have something to look forward to.  (sure love being retired! Don't love being on a fixed low income  Trade offs)



LOL for me that " hump day" doesn't exist -- 2 PT jobs and one is always weekends.   I am going to keep at it so that I can join the trade-off group of "lower fixed income"  "higher at home time"   

ETA -- real trade off is that once you quit it's hard to change your mind.  Sometimes they don't want to take you back!  I will do one job at a time to slide in easy for the "none" day.


----------



## Latestarter

As I shared in another thread, the dogs woke me up this morning to let me know RJ was breeding Dot. Couldn't put it off any longer... Ran by the vet's office today to see about getting lutelyse. Expected to get a hassle and them ask me to bring the goats in but wonder of wonders, no such issues! They asked for my name and since I have been there multiple times, no hassle at all. I explained the situation and they made it happen. They wanted to sell me a 100ml bottle at first for like $24... Unluckily for me, another tech came in from out back right then and caught the error. The 100ml bottle was actually like $80. They didn't have any smaller bottles. They asked how many doses I needed as they didn't have a smaller bottle and sold it in 5ml cattle doses @ $6/dose. Since I only needed 2ml/animal, I said lets just do 4 cattle doses, which would be 20ml for $24.00 They ended up giving me 25ml for the price of 20  Granted, the cost for 30ml online is like $19, but with shipping costs, would have been more than what I paid. So the tech drew it out of the 100ml bottle and put it in a new vac sealed bottle for me. They confirmed 2ml/doe IM, so I'm good to go 10 days after I get RJ sequestered. I should have enough for all 10 does with a little extra.

I had planned to get back to pen building but since I had to go out anyway, went shopping instead and re-stocked my getting barren pantry shelves. That ended up costing me almost $300. Got me a watermelon and some nice peaches too.   It is pretty warm out there today... 97 but feels like over 100°, and my hands aren't working well today. Guess I'll try again tomorrow.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad to hear ya got it....even thru the confusion....wish your hands and wrists felt better, but with the fluctuating weather it is to be expected....my leg has been throbbing too........hope ya can get things tended to in a timely fashion, so ya can avoid those Jan kiddings......


----------



## Baymule

Hope your hands feel better. It's too dang hot to go stir them up right now anyway. Do it first thing in the morning.


----------



## Latestarter

Trimmed up some hooves last night at goat chore time. Man did that hurt. Try holding up a hoof while trying to use both hands to close the trimmers. Right hand was barely working. Managed to get 4 adults done including RJ. Supposed to have a possibility of some more moisture over the next couple of days. Hopefully we'll get some and hopefully it will soften the rest of them up to make easier to trim. I really need to get a look at the kid's hooves and give them their initial trims. Tonight my right hand feels a bit better and I really hope/plan to put it back to use tomorrow.   Did hear thunder from some storms that passed me by to the north. Seeing distant lightning way off to the SE now. Looks like some real weather way out west in the panhandle, and up north into western OK and KS. Maybe it will all push this way. Some rain north of the metroplex, and "around" here but it doesn't seem to be moving... 

Temps supposed to drop back to low 90s come the beginning of the week. That will help too.


----------



## Bruce

Sorry about the hand Joe. I wonder if anyone makes trimmers that have some "leverage" feature that would take less force. I guess you could just make them a nice spa and file their hooves down while they have a glass of wine and read "Goat weekly" magazine.


----------



## Mini Horses

Actually, there are some horse hoof trimmers that have some leverage, hard to find!  I have a pair -- paid dearly years ago -- because as a woman my hands are smaller and less strength.  These  were designed, patented and selling well until the inventor sold patent and all.   Buyer then went belly-up and they became unavailable   I have mini horses, so these are smaller than the large horse type.  Luckily I bought more cutting edges and all working well.  They work well on the full sized goat does.

You can also get some electric trimmers but, if you slip it is a disaster as the goats have thin hoof wall and no hard sole like a horse, just soft tissue.    A Dremel can help with a sanding burr, or something similar. 

With horses, we would soak the area by water troughs and they would stand around in that, helping to moisturize hooves.   Of course, dairy goats would rather die of thirst than walk in water & mud.  

Sure hope the hands ease up.  It's hard to do most anything when you have no grip and a lot of pain to boot.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I've seen and have heard of people using a Dremel tool to file away at the hoof wall.  I haven't tried it .. yet.   Not sure how the critters would love it - but sometimes they don't get a choice!


----------



## CntryBoy777

We have chances of rain until Thurs and the temps are suppose to stay in the upper 80s with less humidity....kinda hoping for an early Fall, but will settle for a break from the usual unbearable heat..........hopr the hands get better Joe.


----------



## Mike CHS

I know that working one handed is no fun.


----------



## Latestarter

I just have to post a welcome to the present to Senile_Texas_Aggie who will shortly be reading this and be all caught up on this journal.  to you for staying the course! Hope I didn't bore you too much while you got here. Perhaps I provided a little entertainment, maybe some smiles, some insight and possibly even a nugget or two that will benefit you in your future with your new place    I didn't "@" you because I wanted you to just come upon this as you got caught up.


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## goatgurl

latestarter you're so funny!!


----------



## Latestarter

I was looking on Youtube for music videos to DL to my computer to play while on it. I was DLing Jerry Rafferty when I saw RIP in the comments... I had no idea he'd died way back in 2011. Love his music. Then it dawned on me how many awesome musical talents we've lost in the past few years... Most recently, Aretha Franklin. Tom Petty, Glen Frey, David Bowie, Keith Emerson & Carl Palmer of EL&P, Prince, George Michael, Merle Haggard, Greg Allman, Glen Campbell, Malcolm Young (AC/DC), David Cassidy... And many more... So many gone. 

I'm getting on in years so more of the musicians I grew up listening to are going to be leaving us in the near term.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Regarding



Latestarter said:


> I just have to post a welcome to the present to Senile_Texas_Aggie who will shortly be reading this and be all caught up on this journal.



    Amazing that you were so close to when I actually would finish!  I just now finished reading your entire journal.  It was entertaining, educational, and I enjoyed it immensely.

    I am wondering about a few things, so maybe you can clear them up for me.  First, early in your journal you wrote about one of your daughters who has epilepsy, and you considered not leaving Colorado over your concern for her.  Later, you mentioned going after one of your daughters in Colorado for a visit (the time when you hit the black ice).  Was that the same daughter? Then quite recently you mentioned your daughter was in Maine when she came for a visit to see you around July 4th.  Has she moved to Maine permanently or is she just visiting?

    Second, I was quite bewildered when there was a discussion of tattoos for goats.  TATTOOS FOR GOATS?    Do some of them get ones that say "Mom"?  Something more goatie?  I suggest you tattoo them with this:







    As a warning to all you other BYHers, I will be stalking each of you as well.  But this time, I am not going to let you know in advance the way I did @Latestarter.  The only problem I see is that there are so many good journals to choose from.  Decisions, decisions...

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Latestarter

The daughter in Maine now, is the same one who I went and got in CO. She doesn't like heat and humidity and she was initially raised by her unwed mom, living with her grandparents, in ME. I met the mom and married her while stationed at NAS Brunswick, ME, and adopted her and changed her name to mine when she was 4 yrs old. She's the reason I married her mom. She called me dad the first time she saw me  Anyway, her grandma died quite a few years ago from Alzheimers disease. My daughter got to visit with both of them about 6 months before her death when I took all the kids back to ME on vacation in a rented motor home (Back when I was making decent money and self employed). Her Papa is getting old and has medical issues... kinda common among older folks. She is not living with her mom but with her aunt, so that she can see and spend time with her Papa. Her mother lives up there as well, but was never really a mother except in name alone, and that hasn't changed even with her proximity.

Anyway, to get back to your question... Her initial idea was to move there permanently but once her Papa dies, there will really be little left to hold her there. She has visited with me down here several times now and I believe has come to the conclusion that heat in the winter and AC in the summer can make anyplace habitable . She has also become very attached to Mel and my goats. (Of course she spent time with Mel quite frequently when we both lived in CO. She and her dog Teddy would spend weekends with me quite frequently) She would spend several hours each day out with the goats and Mel and I do believe that it helped with her anxiety and depression in a remarkable way. She really loves the goat babies and wants to be here for next kidding season (March). As a result, I won't be able to bring her here for Christmas this year.

Since she really can't work, and there's really few jobs in Maine unless you work at Bath Iron Works (BIW) building Navy destroyers, swing a chain saw, or drive a big truck, her options are limited. There's also a lack of public transportation unless you live in a big city, (of which there are 3) which she can't afford because she has no income. So I anticipate that at some point, she'll be asking if she can move back with me. Advantages to this arrangement is that she'll get to see her brother and his wife and kids when they visit, and they plan to move to TX in the future as well, so she'll be close to family when I'm gone. She'll also be a great help to me.

Many/most livestock are tattooed/branded for ID purposes. Some animals get ear tags or get their ears cut with notches. Goats are supposed to have tattoos in their ears, but since Lamanchas don't have ears... I guess you're supposed to tattoo them on the skin web on the underside of their tail. It's really important if you plan on showing them in competition. I don't tattoo mine.  No "biker" goats for me! 24 yrs in the Navy and no tattoos on me either. No piercings... Guess I'm just a dull old guy


----------



## Mike CHS

I wasn't a tattoo guy either but I did get one after finding out I wasn't going to spend most of my life in Leavenworth.


----------



## Bruce

There must be a story there that you want to tell us Mike!

Joe, I hope your favorite oldest daughter will make her home there. I think you two need/want each other


----------



## Mike CHS

Bruce - I'll have to figure out a way to do the short version because this ordeal went on for over a year.  I was confined to the ship but every time we went out I worked approach control since I was one of only two that was qualified and we were both restricted to the ship.  Short version is we had a crash on the ship, our tape recorders had failed and were turned off so the investigation board charged us with erasing the tapes.  The Landing Signal Officer said I gave a command to the the aircraft that crashed that I denied making.  The pilot in command that made the error was a Captain that was an Admiral selectee so the E4 approach controllers (me & Larry) didn't have a lot of weight on our side. 

I was charged with enough that if convicted I would have spent most of the rest of my life in Leavenworth.  The night before my Court Martial convened, my JAG lawyer was playing handball with an officer from the USS Kidd.  My lawyer was telling the man off of Kidd about my case and had told him I was done since we had no way to prove what I said since we had no tapes.   The officer from Kidd just happened to be one of the Combat Information Centers officers and said you mean the crash that happened back in (whatever month that was).  My lawyer said yes and the Kidd CIC officer said we were monitoring Forrestals frequencies when it happened and had the tape (which they kept).

As we were walking out of the court complex in Norfolk my lawyer put his hand on my back and said you had an Angel on Your Shoulder since I had you written off.  Later that night I and the other controller that had been charged were sitting in a bar in Norfolk and having had more than a few too many I told Larry what the lawyer said.  He looked kind of silly as he looked out of the window at a tattoo parlor across the street and guess what he saw?  A poster of an angel sitting on some clouds that now resides on my shoulder.


----------



## Mike CHS

Joe - I always introduced my step daughter as my baby and do to this day so I hope things work out well for both of you.  It's a win-win for you both and I can relate to how good it can be.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Mike CHS said:


> As we were walking out of the court complex in Norfolk my lawyer put his hand on my back and said you had an Angel on Your Shoulder since I had you written off. Later that night I and the other controller that had been charged were sitting in a bar in Norfolk and having had more than a few too many I told Larry what the lawyer said. He looked kind of silly as he looked out of the window at a tattoo parlor across the street and guess what he saw? A poster of an angel sitting on some clouds that now resides on my shoulder.


Wow - you sure did have an angel on your shoulder!  Glad it worked out the way it did.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> So I anticipate that at some point, she'll be asking if she can move back with me. Advantages to this arrangement is that she'll get to see her brother and his wife and kids when they visit, and they plan to move to TX in the future as well, so she'll be close to family when I'm gone. She'll also be a great help to me.


Sounds like a win-win!


----------



## Bruce

Too scary close Mike!


----------



## CntryBoy777

.....and ya never know.....she might even learn to do some milking for ya.....it just isn't safe or smart to be alone these days and times......


----------



## Latestarter

I really tried to get her to give it a go last time she was here. She wasn't interested (I think she was scared). My son tried, but as soon as he got down on a knee and reached for Dot's teats and udder, she started dancing like her hooves were on fire...   He never even got to cop a feel   All of them watched me milk and I showed them the process, but no takers. They all tried/drank the milk though.   The grands really loved being down with the goats too. I see small farm animals in my son's family future 

Mike, it's really amazing how many young sailors get railroaded... young officers as well... to cover the errors of "superiors"... Sorry you had to go through that crap but very glad you got saved from the final curtain call. What became of the captain? I imagine he was already promoted to admiral before the truth was revealed. Seems to be the way it goes.


----------



## Latestarter

Is it my imagination or am I seeing a heckuva lot more golden herd members of late?


----------



## Devonviolet

Mini Horses said:


> With horses, we would soak the area by water troughs and they would stand around in that, helping to moisturize hooves. Of course, dairy goats would rather die of thirst than walk in water & mud.


I put my goats on the milk stand to trim their hooves.  With their head in the stancheon, they can’t dance around and try to get away.

When their hooves are especially hard, I put a tub, on the milk stand, (with about 1-1/2” of water) and wide enough to comfortably fit both front or back set of feet.  I let them stand in it for about 5 minutes.  That is enough to soften the hooves, and they are a lot easier to trim.

I know you don’t have a milk stand, @Latestarter, but you may want to consider building one, if your DD is going to be milking goats.  It really is easier than getting down on a knee. I personally can’t get down on my knees due to nerve damage, which makes it very painful.

That would be so cool, if you could convince your daughter to move down here.  I would really love to meet her!


----------



## Pastor Dave

Mike, sounds like a good screen play; and action packed movie. Maybe you can write it and sell it to a producer!

Joe, I've been a True BYH Addict forever. Not sure the criteria for advancing. Haha


----------



## RollingAcres

frustratedearthmother said:


> Wow - you sure did have an angel on your shoulder! Glad it worked out the way it did.


X2 on that!


----------



## RollingAcres

And wow @Senile_Texas_Aggie you really are not messing around when it comes to reading LS's journal! 
I started it and read it until after he moved to Texas then I stopped for a bit and now I don't remember exactly where (what page) I left off.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, nearest I can recollect RA, I moved here to TX in Oct 2016, so if you really are lacking for sleep inducers, you can re-start about there.


----------



## RollingAcres




----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter,

    Thank you so much for sharing with everyone about your daughter.  That is so touching to know how much you care for her, as well as your son and the other members of your family, and how much she cares for you.  Whenever I get down and wonder what the world is coming to, reading such inspiring stories such as what you told helps to restore my faith in humanity.  Thank you, again.  I hope you can find a chance to share more of your past and help us to know you better and to show our care and concern.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Latestarter

So as long as the temp keeps dropping one degree per day, in about 25 days it ought to be pretty comfortable here once again.    I sure do hope that rain they show later this week actually happens. It is dry, dry, dry here... My neighbor was mowing his lawn yesterday and you could barely see him on the riding mower from the dust cloud he was creating. I'm not mowing anything here, even though it needs it, until there's a real good chance of rain about to happen. Not even any dew in the morning right now.


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## Hens and Roos

Hope that the rain finds you ....if I could I would send the rain that we are forecasted to get this week to you- we sure don't need anymore right now!


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> View attachment 51626
> So as long as the temp keeps dropping one degree per day, in about 25 days it ought to be pretty comfortable here once again.    I sure do hope that rain they show later this week actually happens. It is dry, dry, dry here... My neighbor was mowing his lawn yesterday and you could barely see him on the riding mower from the dust cloud he was creating. I'm not mowing anything here, even though it needs it, until there's a real good chance of rain about to happen. Not even any dew in the morning right now.



It's pretty nice here today, mostly cloudy tho not much chance of rain. As much as I did not want to, I agreed to mow about 2/3 of my neighbor's horse pastures yesterday after he kept shearing pins on his 6' mower. Weeds were 6' high in places and wooley croton and sweetgum abundant, plenty of dust and weed/grass particles in the air. If he'd sprayed like I told him to (he has a big sprayer) he wouldn't have had this problem.
He looks at mine, across the fence, looks at his and "If I could just get it looking like yours..you never have to mow"........there's a reason it's that way.........he has an implement sitting there not being used.


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## Latestarter

Was pulling a few T posts from the concrete like soil yesterday afternoon. Even taking a shovel and digging out the top ~foot made little difference. I decided I needed something to extend the length of the lever arm to give more force. At one point I was pulling down and back on it and the puller slipped up the post and ended up planting myself on my butt. Didn't hurt that much at the time but today I have a very sore butt/coccyx/tailbone and lower back. Knees aren't doing all that great at the moment either.
Swollen with fluid on them.

I found out that the T-post pounder just barely slips over the T-post puller arm. What a huge difference that made! The added weight of the pounder plus that extra 2-3 feet of lever made all the difference. It did make it a little more unwieldy to move around though. By the time I got all that figured out and the wanted posts pulled, I was wringing with sweat and over heating. Did some more work pulling apart the hoop house on the ground and wired up a couple of cattle panels and called it a day. Hopefully I'll be mobile enough tomorrow to get back to it.

Also moved the existing hay feeder over into the area where the new buck pen will be. Since RJ will no longer have freedom for quite some time, he's gonna be on a strictly hay/pellet diet. Nice hornets nest under the lower deck of the hay feeder so that was an evolution... move it a bit, wait for them to settle back down then move it some more. I think one of the baby goats got stung as she was over messing around right after the final move and started jumping around and kicking at her neck. Bought a couple more feeding "bowls" and a water bucket/trough for RJ's side as well as the needed hardware to complete the fencing of the 2 pens. Really hoping to have it complete by the end of this week. Then I need to start building a goat barn for the girls.


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## CntryBoy777

Dang Joe!!.....sure hate to hear about the sudden change of position....and ya may just need a tad more than an overnight recovery.....sometimes it takes a couple of days to work out the kinks, especially as we increase the mileage that is already barking and growling at us...........sure glad ya didn't get stung while in the process of moving the feeder, that would not have been good at all.


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## Mike CHS

But at least you are having fun.


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## Baymule

It comes in small increments, a little at a time. But after several 5 gallon buckets of sweat, you look around and it is done. The garden where the peas are is over knee deep in the purtiest dad-burned crab grass you ever saw. We borrowed one of those weed eater things on wheels, I grabbed a handful and DH cut it down. Just clearing the path, we got 3 wagon loads, heaped high. One went to the sheep, two to the horses. I have to watch BJ to make sure he doesn't overheat and I made him quit at 10. 

It sounds like you got a lot done. Just watch the heat, you don't need a heat stroke. On pulling up those T-posts, dig down, then water the post. Water it several times during the day, then try pulling it. Or even soak it real good and pull it the next morning. We had to do some like that.


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## Mini Horses

did you consider spraying the stingers nest?     Just kill them.

No spray?   That is something I generally keep a couple cans of sitting in barn & machine shed/barn.  You never know when you need it!  I hate those rascals .  They hide & attack.


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## Latestarter

Meant to buy some wasp spray when I bought the other stuff... Lost (my mind/memory) in transit it seems. Becoming a more than common occurrence.


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## Bruce

WD40 and a lighter make a great wasp nest destroyer  Make sure you have the little red tube.


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## Pastor Dave

3pt hitch and chain. Yank em right out


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> At one point I was pulling down and back on it and the puller slipped up the post and ended up planting myself on my butt. Didn't hurt that much at the time but today I have a very sore butt/coccyx/tailbone and lower back. Knees aren't doing all that great at the moment either.
> Swollen with fluid on them.


Dang! Hope you feel better soon.


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## Baymule

So......how ya' doin' today? Sore-butt-itus? I hate it when my knees are acting up. Walking is pretty imperative when you have animals to take care of. Limping on both sides makes one lurch from side to side like a double crippled Frankenstein.


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## Mini Horses

LS -- my DH used to make lists...I chided him, he told me I should do it but, true to form I rarely did, That was THEN.  NOW I have them everywhere for everything.  It helps  -- he's up there laughing at this! -- but even if I forget the list (often), I do remember better having written it down.

I generally do one and place with my work paperwork...the night before.  Often it starts with something I need to DO before I leave home &/or on way there, way home, etc. Partly to conserve trips (gas & time) and to get into the habit of doing it or doing without.

You did without wasp spray.  Glad you didn't get stung.  And yes, other things will kill them.   Also, that spray is great for self defense.    Ladies, take note....shoots a stream about 20' out pretty easy to control and you sure don't want it in your face.   Keep it by your door and in your car.     That's my PSA.

ETA:   Wonder how it works on snakes?


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## Mike CHS

We learned the other day that we SHOULD have sprayed in all of the tubes on our tilt table that hasn't been used in a month BEFORE we got a sheep in it.  We did have the spray handy but unused.


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## CntryBoy777

About the lists....I have a difficult time remembering the darn things too, but what I do is take a pic of it on the table with my phone....because, when the process of leaving is started there are certain steps to take before we or I leave....so, if the list doesn't cross my mind....my phone is always with me....


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## Latestarter

Rough morning Bay... hip/butt and knees... took 5 minutes to get straightened up from the bed to hobble to the bathroom. Then another ~20 minutes (& 4 Ibuprofen) to get loosened up enough for animal chores. Gotta do what's gotta get done. Animals won't feed or milk themselves  

Hotter n' Hades here the past couple of days too. Least there's some semblance of a breeze. So dry though. Even the Bermuda grass is shriveling up and dying. 9pm now and it's still 89° here. I've been letting Mel (& Elf) stay in the house during the day since it's so hot out. He's still shedding even though he's got a summer coat right now.


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## Devonviolet

Since I have hand tremors and cant read my own writing, hand written lists don't work for me.

I have a QuickMemo+ app on my LG phone. It has a check box function. You click on the list function (left side of the tool bar).

I use QuickMemo+ to make shopping lists (a different list for each store), within one memo. I click the box to put a check that puts a line through the words, so I know to ignore it.  One of my memos is a To Do List for Farmer's Market. Since it is on my phone, I always have my list with me.


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## Mike CHS

I really love the way we all compensate.  Getting older doesn't matter.


----------



## Devonviolet

-I was so sorry to hear about your fall LS.  That kind of fall can do a number on your back.

I'd be careful about taking that much Ibuprofen, though. Even if taken "as directed" (no more than 2 pills every 4 hours), if taken on a regular basis, Ibuprofen can cause Liver damage. Taking 4 pills close together (even only once in a while) will cause bad liver damage.

Also, please eat something when you take Ibuprofen, because if it is taken on an empty stomach, it can eat away the lining of your stomach - especially if you are taking it on a regular basis.


----------



## Mini Horses

I still have a flip phone    So lists are to small to read.   Do have a tablet, which has many features you mention and some can be used without data plan -- which I don't have.  It was bought because I needed to report some work via digital from site.   WiFi available at many places, some not, so report transmits when I get to a hotspot or when I get home.   
I have satellite at home.   Verizon feels data is gold, apparently. Not sure if I can get a connect to my tablet -- roaming type -- from my current sat or not.  Never asked.  Seems I could   May check on that...more $$$ I'm sure.


BUT, YES -- we compromise/compensate for age.    Have to.  Otherwise we just give up & check out!  I'm no where near ready for that.  Often it's as simple as smaller packages, shorter time, naps, devices, equipment and so on, depending on needs.   Limiting expenses is another


----------



## Devonviolet

Mini Horses said:


> BUT, YES -- we compromise/compensate for age.  Have to. Otherwise we just give up & check out! I'm no where near ready for that.



YOU GO GIRL!!!
​


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I found out that the T-post pounder just barely slips over the T-post puller arm. What a huge difference that made! The added weight of the pounder plus that extra 2-3 feet of lever made all the difference. It did make it a little more unwieldy to move around though.



A piece of schedule 80 pvc will make a pretty good cheater pipe and is lighter than the post driver. I've used it to break loose the big nuts on my brush hog blades and on my high lift jack. Make sure it's a fairly new piece, not one that has become brittle laying in the sun for several years.


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## Latestarter

Made the mistake of stopping by the pound today... I wanted a real cheese burger and there's a burger joint (non fast food) over in that general area. They have a beautiful Great Pyrenees female, looks pure bred, not fixed, that was turned in as a vagabond down near the Walmart. She's such a sweet and gentle girl   So pretty Not a puppy, looks to be 2-3 years old. Not pregnant or looking to have been recently. She's a drooler   oh my... what to do... No idea of background for LGD work, and since a pick up/turn in, she appears to be a wanderer...   Hmmm decisions...


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## frustratedearthmother

Go for it!!


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## Mike CHS

We'll know what you are going to do if you go check her out a second time.


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## RollingAcres

She needs a good home.


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## Wehner Homestead

You know better than to mention it on here! We are enablers!! Where are the pics?? Your house needs some estrogen anyway!


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## CntryBoy777

I really hate to be the fly in the ointment, but aren't ya struggling a bit to accomodate the animals that ya already have?.....and a female waunderer is just going to behave long enough to get to her....and if she begins a heat cycle, what ya gonna do?....shut her up in the house for 2-3wks?....big dogs make large blood spots.....Gabbie is in heat now, so got some 1st hand on that. There really isn't a need to overburden yourself right now. Ya know I'll support your decision, but just wanted to give ya some things to think about....


----------



## Mini Horses

You know, there was NO NEED to stop for a hamburger!!


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## Latestarter

So it turns out it was "variably cloudy" today after my burger and a Great Pyr, so I decided to go work off some fat working on the pens. Pounded some posts, wired up some cattle panels, cut some CP gates for the buck pen & hooked them up. Should have it finished up tomorrow, then buy some hay, and the boys and wannabee boys are going into lock down.

Moved the wheel barrow of tools and trash up under the car port, and let the dogs back out, Elf in the back yard, Mel in the goat pasture. Fed both dogs,and was getting ready to put out the bowls for the goat pellets when I heard this tearing sound... Part of moving the goat pen fencing was to clear an way to drop that big dead tree. That is no longer an issue... A big T-storm developed up to the north of me and the wind was coming in strong from the SE, which pushed the tree in the direction it wanted to go anyway, and it is now down inside the goat pen. It hit the wiring to the outside pasture light on its way down and broke the ground wire so I'm going to need to get the pwr co. out here to fix that.




 



 

As you can see, it destroyed a corner of a CP but all things considered, I'm pretty OK... it didn't hit any goats, and they were all in there waiting to be fed, didn't do any real serious damage, and now I only have to cut it and split it. It let go from the root ball, so looks like no digging that out either.

Of course the goats are pleased as punch as they now have a brand new toy to jump around on.


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## Mike CHS

That looks like it went on command.


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## CntryBoy777

That sure saved ya some work, for sure!!....the goats will really enjoy it too....


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## Mini Horses

NICE!


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## Baymule

Are you going back in the morning to get the pyr? You know they don't keep them long......


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## RollingAcres

Nice job LS! How's your sore back/hip/tailbone?
And more importantly did you get her yet????


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## Latestarter

Listened to the voice of "reason" (Dang it Fred! ) as opposed to the enablers in this case...   I'd love to have her, but too much going on right now and I can't dedicate the time and effort to her that she'd deserve and require. I don't need another "house" dog, and certainly not one that might be a wanderer...

Called the pwr co a few minutes ago. They hadn't been charging me for the exterior security light  but now that they know it's here, I'm gonna be paying $10/mo going fwd. They reported it as a line down so said the truck would be here some time today.


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Listened to the voice of "reason" (Dang it Fred! ) as opposed to the enablers in this case...   I'd love to have her, but too much going on right now and I can't dedicate the time and effort to her that she'd deserve and require. I don't need another "house" dog, and certainly not one that might be a wanderer...
> 
> Called the pwr co a few minutes ago. They hadn't been charging me for the exterior security light  but now that they know it's here, I'm gonna be paying $10/mo going fwd. They reported it as a line down so said the truck would be here some time today.



That Fred, what a "party-pooper" he is.  Spoiled the fun for us. lol
But LS, we totally understand your reasoning.


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## CntryBoy777

Oh.....I have certainly been called much....much worse...

So, don't think for a minute that it's never been heard before......


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## RollingAcres

Well I tried to keep the name-calling to rated PG or rated G and it would be very unladylike of me to call you worse.


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## Latestarter

The pwr company just left. Nicely done. Had the cable spliced and re-tightened and power restored to the light in under 1/2 hour. The steel center cable on the tension cable had rusted out where it broke. He cleaned up both ends before splicing. The shielded power cable was fine and he didn't have to do anything with it. Glad there was just past a full moon last night as I do have coyotes all around and not having the pen illuminated, coupled with the tree down right in the middle could have been a recipe for disaster.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Called the pwr co a few minutes ago. They hadn't been charging me for the exterior security light  but now that they know it's here, I'm gonna be paying $10/mo going fwd.



You've been there nearly 2 years now.... didn't notice on your bill there has been no charge for it?


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## Wehner Homestead

There’s not a separate charge for ours in Indiana.


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## greybeard

My electric provider (Entergy) owns the security light and the pole and they maintain it for as long as you pay the lease charge. Since the energy usage comes off mine 'upstream' of the meter, there is no kilowatt usage shown on the bill but there is the monthly lease (which is actually an annual lease ÷ 12) They don't charge for the replacement bulb or the service call.


----------



## Latestarter

greybeard said:


> You've been there nearly 2 years now.... didn't notice on your bill there has been no charge for it?



I never really gave it a thought...   It comes directly off the transformer on the final pole before the meter. When I get the bill each month, I rarely look at it that closely and there are always other "fees & charges" on there so I just assumed that was part of it. No biggie really... Not going to complain that the electric company who started my service, turned everything on and owns my account didn't "remember" a utility/security light was here at this address... I doubt they continued billing the previous owner, who had the light installed.   I swapped my service directly from his account as he had pwr on here previous to me closing. I'll pay for it now, and like I said, no big deal. The guy came and fixed it, no charge to me. 

In other news, it's been raining here, sometimes pretty heavily, for the last hour or so.   Nice big T-storm to the east and another to the west and I'm right between them. So they ebb and flow back and forth over me. Started just as I was collecting up the goat's feed buckets. Glad they got done eating before it started. Now, I hope it continues for a while longer, though the thunder seems to be moving off.


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## Baymule

Yay! You got rain! I hope you get a good rain out of it. Just went outside to play fetch with Beaux and run some of his energy off. Lightening put on a light show off in the distance. Don't look like we'll get any of it, but I'm glad that you got some rain.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> t comes directly off the transformer on the final pole before the meter. When I get the bill each month, I rarely look at it that closely and there are always other "fees & charges" on there so I just assumed that was part of it.


Same here..right off the transformer.

Among the other fees I'll be paying forever is HRC/SRC charges.
Hurricane Reconstruction Costs & Storm Restoration Costs charges. Something that came about after Hurricane Rita, that used to just be lumped in with the KW charge but with the new billing format, is now detailed. 
http://www.entergy-texas.com/faq/faq_consumer.aspx#b19
http://www.entergy-texas.com/faq/faq_consumer.aspx#b20


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## Latestarter

Got a total of 3/4" of rain. Enough that Mel spent most of the night inside. He finally asked for out ~4am so I let him out. 15 minutes later I heard him scratching at the door...   tough luck old boy... rolled over and went back to sleep. Really heavy dew this morning and light fog. Can you say "humidity"? All my windows are covered in condensation outside. Sun will burn it all off soon enough I'm sure.

One of this years kids, PB&J, CC's kid, has a developing issue... she has a "bubble" (growing?) under her skin on her flank. It's behind her ribs and about 1/2 way down her torso. I've tried to feel it but it's pretty difficult to get hold of her, & it is sensitive as she moves away as soon as I touch it. It's about the size of my palm right now and looks/feels like it's filled with jello/liquid. I'm wondering if maybe she might have gotten nicked by the tree when it fell, or maybe got hurt climbing all over it, and it caused her to develop a hernia there. It doesn't look or feel like intestines in the bubble... She doesn't seem to be in any immediate danger or real pain... She ate fine and is moving with little issues, no teeth grinding or crying. So I'll watch it closely and determine what to do. 

Has anyone here had anything like this happen? Sorry I don't have pictures (yet)... just discovered it this morning while feeding/milking.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Abcess, fly strike, or splinter/thorn come to my mind, but then again....I don't have much experience....hopefully it won't be too much of an issue for ya.....


----------



## Mike CHS

I have seen similar on a couple of our sheep but not that big.  Fred hit it, and that is what the one on Ringo turned out to be.  The problem with the one on Ringo is there was no way of knowing without having a culture done.  It isn't cheap to have done but the one he had looked like it could possibly have been CL.


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## Latestarter

This isn't the typical size of a cyst... It's not fly strike, no wound... Not sure what it is. Hope to get some pics when I feed them here shortly.


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## Latestarter

As you can see, the lump is pretty good sized. I managed to get a hold of her and though she didn't like me touching it or applying pressure, I was able to "jiggle" it. It isn't hard at all.


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## Mike CHS

Oh Wow - I can see why you're concerned and I'm no help on that one.


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## CntryBoy777

It sure seems that something is going on there and with it being so symetrical....it doesn't lend to a result from injury either....at first I thought a head butt with cracked rib/ribs...but I don't think it would be so rounded.....unless it was pooling blood from internal injury.....


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## Mike CHS

Has SBC or any of the other goat people been around?


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## Baymule

I'm afraid that I am of no help either. Never have seen anything like that.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Dang, I've had goats for nigh on to 30 years and I've never seen anything quite like that.  If it is a hernia from  a really strong head butt or whatever  then I'd watch it really carefully.  You sure wouldn't want it to strangulate which would be an emergency situation...and if it's jiggly...it might actually be intestine? 

I just dunno… color me stumped.


----------



## Latestarter

That's what I've been thinking/am worried of FEM... But it really doesn't "feel" like intestine when I push on it... It really feels like a "puddle of jello or pudding" And I'm thinking possible contusion/hematoma from the tree falling and her possibly getting whacked there or from a head butt... it's really smooth feeling, not "corrugated" like if it was intestines. It's behind her ribs, so not broken bones or anything of that sort. Just don't know... Have considered trying a syringe to see what I can pull out, but if it is intestines/hernia, I don't want to cause sepsis with intestinal contamination from piercing the intestinal wall internally with the needle... Sheesh... what to do... aside from continuing to watch her... Happened way too fast (~36 hours) and is way too big to be disease, and not in a typical place, no lymph glands there...

Really don't need a huge vet surgery bill right now... I have home owners insurance coming due, just got the bill, up to 2 grand now from ~1500 2 years ago... Time to hunt up a new insurer... Also property taxes, another 3 grand coming due soon.   What to do... Maybe I'll post the pics on the injury thread for those who don't follow my journal.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Do you have electric clippers to at least shave the are to see if there are any puncture spots that are covered by the hair? A lot of bite wounds are nearly impossible to see the puncture spots under fur/hair.... is it possible that she was bit by a snake, or venomous spider? Just throwing stuff out there.... I would think the falling limbs or another goat would be the most likely though.... sorry I'm not much help but I haven't seen anything much like it before.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks RGCL... I do have clippers and hadn't considered shaving the area, of course that's an excellent idea and I believe I'll attempt that tomorrow and see if there is some puncture wound under there someplace. There is no obvious puncture, no visible or felt leakage/wetness/blood/fluid/etc. from when I felt of it. Boy, I know that's gonna be a cluster... She's NOT going to like that one bit or stand still for me while doing it...  Maybe I can talk to her and convince her it's for her own good?  

I have killed black widow spiders under their water trough, so yes, it could be a spider bite. I recently moved the hay feeder into where the new buck pen will be and there's an active hornet's nest underneath it, so she could have possibly been stung by one of those as well. I have seen copperhead snakes, but nowhere near their pen, always at the field edges, up front and way down back, so don't think that's a possibility. Never seen a snake inside their present pasture/pen area.


----------



## Pastor Dave

I know we all like to doctor and treat our own animals, but I'm thinking Vet...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Shaving is a good idea because just from outward appearance there does not look to be a hair out of place.  Hornet or spider bite is a possibility... But at some point the swelling would start to subside.  You could try some Benadryl if you think it is an allergic reaction.

They never do these things at a convenient time- that's for sure!  Hoping for the best!


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Made the mistake of stopping by the pound today... I wanted a real cheese burger and there's a burger joint (non fast food) over in that general area. They have a beautiful Great Pyrenees female, looks pure bred, not fixed, that was turned in as a vagabond down near the Walmart. She's such a sweet and gentle girl   So pretty Not a puppy, looks to be 2-3 years old. Not pregnant or looking to have been recently. She's a drooler   oh my... what to do... No idea of background for LGD work, and since a pick up/turn in, she appears to be a wanderer...   Hmmm decisions...





Latestarter said:


> Glad there was just past a full moon last night as I do have coyotes all around and not having the pen illuminated, coupled with the tree down right in the middle could have been a recipe for disaster.


That is why you need that Pyr at the shelter!



Latestarter said:


> I'm gonna be paying $10/mo going fwd. They reported it as a line down so said the truck would be here some time today.


Geez, $120/yr seems like a lot for a light. Sounds kinda like when we were paying $5/mo to lease a cable modem for years. When I found out that was happening (DW was in charge of stuff back when we got cable) I cancelled it and bought one for $85 at Best Buy. Coulda bought 5 or 6 with what we had paid Comcast. Cheap money for the cable company like cheap money for your power company.


----------



## Mike CHS

Our light is $7.50 here at the house.  I have my own LED security lights down at my shop which is on a separate meter and they are a whole lot brighter.


----------



## Southern by choice

UGH. We pay close to 10 a month too. I kind of like having the light I just wish there was a way to turn it off. 
It ruins it for us with the telescope.  We use to get so happy when the lights failed so we could go out at 3-4 am and see space through the scope.
They also just replaced everyone's lights with these new LED type and I hate it. It is so bright it is annoying. No matter the shades, blinds, curtains... you cannot have a dark room.
The light is 30 ft outside of two of the bedrooms windows and the FR. 

This year we have had snakes in the fields. Pete isn't smart about them. He likes to kill them and play with them. Well first he bites it and then lets it try to slither away then he grabs it again.... literally- he plays with them. Once dead he has his toy for weeks... so weird.  Blue is smarter and doesn't mess with them but barks at them.

"Green Collar" which is now Simba has  alerted several times to copperheads on his farm. He has snake sense... he does chase them out but keeps his distance. 
Most of the dogs here are snake smart. 'cept Pete 
We have had black, green, garden, hog, and copperheads in the fields. Very strange because we never have them in the fields. 

Snakes bites don't usually leave swelling that is very symmetrical or round. The fact it is squishy is strange too. Really interesting, can't wait to hear what it is.
Of course I am sad the lil doe is dealing with it.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Southern by choice said:


> We have had black, green, garden, hog, and copperheads in the fields. Very strange because we never have them in the fields.


All snakes can swim, but not all enjoy being wet....with all the flooding streams, rivers, and high water over that way they will be pushed further than normal in their attempts to find higher, drier ground.....sure hope the water recedes before temps start to fall or they will be hibernating in hay, bldgs, and any area that is protected.....our prayers are with all of ya over that way, for sure.....


----------



## Bruce

Southern by choice said:


> UGH. We pay close to 10 a month too. I kind of like having the light I just wish there was a way to turn it off.


Why does the power company put those in? And then charge you for them? I'd much rather have motion sensor lights. Someone who shouldn't be there shows up and it is easy to follow where they are going plus you don't have light pollution when you don't want/need the light.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Why does the power company put those in? And then charge you for them? I'd much rather have motion sensor lights. Someone who shouldn't be there shows up and it is easy to follow where they are going plus you don't have light pollution when you don't want/need the light.



The customer requests them is why.
Motion detectors are fine, until the detector fails, then replacement for that part is about 75% the cost of an entire fixture. 

I do not care for motion detector activated lights either as it is just too easy to circumvent the detection area and around here, them big ol moths and sometimes bats, keep the md light going on and off, on and off. .


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## Mini Horses

Well you can buy large lights that can be put on a switch to turn off/on.   I have one on my barn.   Of course  is for my own convenience and those the power companies up are generally there because property owner felt they needed/wanted all night light.


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## CntryBoy777

We don't have such here....if ya want a light it is all tied in after the meter.....


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## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> We don't have such here....if ya want a light it is all tied in after the meter.....


That is somewhat surprising. Almost all power companies off this especially in rural environments.
Who is your electric provider?


----------



## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> Well you can buy large lights that can be put on a switch to turn off/on.   I have one on my barn.   Of course  is for my own convenience and those the power companies up are generally there because property owner felt they needed/wanted all night light.



I have a 'greybeard provided'  LED light on the west end of my shop and a dual 300w incandescent flood light on the other end.  Work lights, not security.  The motion detector part went out on the led light so I wired around it and put it on a switch. So far, the detector module on the incandescent light still works but it is a pain in the butt to have to keep moving around while doing a project just so the light will stay on. Same thing with the led solar light I have at the dock near the pond. 5 minutes is the max option on it's settings, and I stay down there fishing for several hours. I'll probably wire around that detector next time I have to clean it off.


----------



## CntryBoy777

greybeard said:


> That is somewhat surprising. Almost all power companies off this especially in rural environments.
> Who is your electric provider?


Entergy is the provider here.


----------



## greybeard

Entergy is my provider as well.  Appears like it is offered in Mississippi.

 

http://www.entergy-mississippi.com/your_home/
https://secure.entergy.com/SecurityLighting/mississippi/#fixture-recommender


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## Bruce

So Joe could decide to save $120 year and ask the power company to turn the light off. He could put his own light up on a switch if desired. I am personally not at all fond of light pollution.


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## Baymule

We have one that shines into the bedroom, so put up black out drapes. They work real well.


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## greybeard

Nothing shines in past my eyelids.


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## Bruce

Wish I had that "skill". Best Western in Bangor was nice, free breakfast was far better than most but every time I woke up in the middle of the night I thought it was about time to get up due to the light coming around the edges of the curtains. Nope, 11:30. Nope 1:30. Nope 4:30


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## Latestarter

Turning the security light off kinda defeats the purpose for having it. I have no problem at all paying the ten bucks a month and I WANT that light on at night, all night. It gives light to the goat pen and that means no secret approach for coyotes or other predators.  The goats will see something coming and snort, alerting the dogs, or the dogs will see something coming and alert the goats. Sometimes light will bother me getting to sleep, but not commonly. The globe on the light was smashed on one side, the side that faced the house, so the light was pretty intense coming in the back windows. I had the repair guy turn the globe around while he was up there. Problem solved 

Most folks don't give it a thought, but the power company needs to have things powered up overnight, street lights, etc. They can't turn off (all) the generators/generating capacity and there has to be something out there using the power they are generating overnight. Generators aren't "instant on" so at 6am when everyone starts taking their hot showers, causing all those hot water heaters to click on, the power company has to start bringing their generators online that have been "off" or in  standby overnight. It helps that just about this time, most street lights are also clicking off, so that power becomes available. If you've never had the opportunity to visit a power company's main switching station, it's really fascinating. It's a huge room that looks like NASA @ Houston with folks monitoring the grid on computer screens and huge wall mounted displays. Watching for power fluctuations, and maintaining the power at 60hz, switching power between areas of demand, and just making sure average folks like us don't have to freak out cause we're in the dark and cold (or hot).

There are places where they have hydro powered generation from elevated lakes during the day then at night they use surplus power from elsewhere to pump the water back uphill to the reservoir to be used again the next day.


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## greybeard

Power surges called the TV pickup are unique to Britain. The engineers at the National Grid control center brace themselves each time a television show called Eastenders ends and 1.75 million tea kettles get switched on.

There is always a big load on power company generators..either from customers or from really really big resistors called shunts. They just absorb the excess energy to heat which is dissipated. If customer load suddenly increases, moving power from shunts to line takes place in milliseconds. 
Our grid is so interconnected, power not needed in one place is transferred to where it is needed. 
Frequency trips very very rarely happen. Inertia from the rotating mass of the generator rotor keeps freq pretty constant, within a few decimal places of 6o hz.  Volts is a function of the # of poles in the generator and rpm. Current is determined only by load--no generator will produce more current (amps) than the load demands.


----------



## Mike CHS

I got to go on a tour of the nuclear power plant south of Huntsville and was beyond impressed.  Over half of the power generated by the TVA power grid is now nuclear.


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Has anyone here had anything like this happen?



I haven’t had anything like that on any of our goats.  

I would be very surprised if it is a hernia.  Those usually occur, where there is a weak connection where muscle layers come together.  At least in humans, I have never seen it anywhere but on the lower half of the abdomen.  The three common type are abdominal, at the umbilicus (belly button) and inguial, along the groin.

Did you ever shave it to see if there was a puncture point?  Has it gotten worse or better???

To me it sounds like an encapsulated infection.  It came on too fast to be a fatty cyst, which moves around but is a more solid mass under the skin - although that wasn’t previously mentioned. I also don’t think it would be lymph (CL) related, as the lymph system runs along the trunk - starting at the head, along the abdomen and into the groin.  Just considering the options. 

I would think the best way to determine if it is an infection, would be to take a small bore needle and asparate some of the fluid into a 5 cc syringe (all 5cc’s).  If you have a redtop tube, put it in that.  I would think your vet could either take a look at it under a microscope or send it off to TVMDL (TX A&M lab). I would also think if you confirm an infection, it could be lanced with a small incision and express the pus. It could then be left to drain.  

I had a cat once, that got bit by another animal.  He got a massive pus pocket.  The Vet lanced it, and sent him home with instructions for me to express pus daily, which I did for a week, until it was not producing puss anymore.  The silly cat would lay there and purr as I expressed it.  I couldn’t help but wonder if he realized that I was helping him to get better.

I wonder if @goatgurl has any thoughts on this?  She has been doing goats as long, or longer than @Southern by choice.


----------



## Southern by choice

@Devonviolet @goatgurl  has been caring for goats far longer than I have... hopefully she has an idea. I am stumped.  I am also fascinated! 

I did find this picture and though hmmm maybe something here will be helpful.
http://goat-link.com/content/view/49/31/#.W41VTuhKiUk

Although I would not aspirate. At this point I'd have her vet checked.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I also wouldn't aspirate at this point.


----------



## Devonviolet

Southern by choice said:


> Although I would not aspirate. At this point I'd have her vet checked.


Oh no, I wouldn’t aspirate unless the Vet gave the okay. He/she might be able to determine if aspiration is warranted.  I think my Vet would give me the go ahead, if he could look at current pics, & had a detailed verbal description. 

Another point to consider, is if she has developed a temp since Thurs.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, it has been gray and wet off and on all day. Series of smaller rain squalls and mini cloud bursts moving over me from the SE moving NW. Had one just finish going over and I got the goats fed just in time. Looks like the wet will be with me for a while yet. Looks like @Devonviolet may have had a more potent storm pass over her and I hope @Baymule is getting some rain out of this as well. Depending on what happens with TS/Hurricane Gordon, that will dictate future rains here at the end of this week I suppose. I am NOT complaining!  I DO need to get a new doe shelter built, and the sooner the better.  Wish they hadn't destroyed the danged hoop hut.


----------



## farmerjan

@Latestarter;  I don't think that a "lighted" area will prevent coyotes from "sneaking in".  It might give the goats a little better visibility but it won't deter the coyotes.  Because it is a constant, they will get totally used to it.  Here in Va., in Highland county there were more sheep than people at one time.  Land is very steep, it's in the mountains, and one of the reasons it was good for sheep raising because they are easier on the land than cattle and can utilize the mixed growth.  The coyotes started to migrate to this area, and the farmers there used dogs, llamas, donkeys, then went to penning the sheep in the barnyards at night, used all night lighting, used radios, then started penning them in the barns.  The coyotes would dig under or in some cases were going through the windows that were not reinforced by wire or bars.   

I know one farmer that went from running over 200 ewes to out of the sheep business in about 10 years because they just got tired of dealing with the loss. They used to have close to a 200% lamb crop and got to where they were lucky to get 75 lambs to saleable size.  These were coyotes, not wolves, but hunted in packs and they would kill some of the dogs and in one instance, ran 2 llamas to the point of exhaustion and they finally gave up.  Several counties in Va offered bounties on coyotes but most have stopped because there are so many.  Realize this is a very mountainous and secluded area.....with every kind of wildlife there.  These are people who would have 10-20 coyote hides hanging on their fences as deterrents at any one time.  Most have given up farming or switched to cattle and they still suffer some losses so cows are calved close to home in barns and are "babysat"  when due.

And if it isn't the coyotes, then they have to deal with the f...ing eagles.  YES THEY WILL KILL OR CARRY OFF NEWBORN LAMBS.  They are referred as "white-headed vultures"  and are pretty much universally hated.  They will peck the eyes out of the lambs or actually fight off a ewe with a just born bloody afterbirth covered lamb.  They also will go after cows during calving.  Between them and the black mexican vultures, they are a real menace.  The fish and game dept out there gave a seminar on the problem they are and the cost to farmers and the measures they take to try to keep them from getting too fixated on farm animals.  Here, after about a week of leaving a light on outside around the chickens, you would see all sorts of animals, as they weren't afraid of the light because it was "normal" to them.  I've had coyotes within 25 feet of the backdoor when they were trying to tear into the rabbit cage one time a few years ago, and my yelling only made them back off for about 15 feet.  A few shots helped, but there were cows in the field in the dark behind that area and I couldn't just shoot willy-nilly. 

You can't fence 25 and 50 acre pastures to be coyote proof, and if you can't let the lambs out to graze with the ewes until they are over 50 lbs then you can't make a living at it.  Plain and simple.
I hope the lighting works for you.


----------



## Mike CHS

If it isn't one thing, it's another.  We have a Mountain Lion in the neighborhood now but it seems to be leaving live stock alone.  Two of the neighbors have pictures on their game cams and the state has finally admitted they are moving in.  The Black Vultures are as bad as coyotes and we know of one farm that gave up and sold out.  They will spread in a semi-circle around a ewe and her lamb and if they can wear out the ewe, they will go after the lambs eyes and then gang up and kill it.  They will do the same to a calf if given the chance or at least is what I have read.

There is one of the nasty critters hanging from a fence post and I haven't seen any since I hung that one out there.


----------



## farmerjan

They do say that hanging the black vultures here will also keep the rest away.  They are too damn smart.  I had a neighbor last year where we rent call that the vultures were down around a heifer that had just calved.  I was on my way home from testing.  She rode her 4-wheeler down there and kept them away til I got there. There were 11 and a juvenile eagle there and it was challenging me as I tried to chase them all off.  I stayed with the heifer til she got up, passed the afterbirth, and then the calf got up and nursed.  When they were somewhat stable on their feet, I helped them to go into the woods and the vultures gave up.  They don't like to be in too close a quarters where they can't easily fly.   If I'd have had the gun there would have been several dead birds.  The owner could not believe that they would actually go after the cow and calf.  Sure educated her on that.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> They can't turn off (all) the generators/generating capacity and there has to be something out there using the power they are generating overnight.


Well then they should be paying YOU for helping them use that electricity


----------



## goatgurl

first order of business, I haven't got a clue what that round circle on the doelings side is.  have you shaved it looking for a puncture wound/sting/bite mark?  if it were a hematoma one would think that the bottom side would be heavier and thicker than the other part just from gravity.  I've never seen a bite/sting/puncture that was that symmetrical or lasted that long.  nor have i a seen a hernia in that area, always midline area behind the belly button.  it has me stumped but like the others I wouldn't try to aspirate it.  that may cause more trouble than you bargained for.  you never said does she have a temp?  is she still eating/drinking/ pooping/ peeing ok?  very interesting indeed.  bad as I know you hate to it might be vet time.
   I made the conscious decision not to have a light in my barnyard.  I really like to watch the lighting bugs, look at stars and meteor showers, enjoy the dark and the quiet.  I had a serious discussion with dd and sil when they moved here because they left all three of their porch lights on all night, two of them shined on my house and barn yard and I hated that much light.  they compromised and turned them off . I have a thermal/night vision scope that I go out at night and watch the critters with.  nope, no light pollution for me thank you.  I have a couple of powerful flashlights, think tactical from law enforcement sil, and headlamps if needed plus solar for the barn if I choose to turn them on.  that's good enough for me, and I totally agree that constant lights will not deter any varmints.  grandfather-in-law put lights up in his cornfields to keep the coons out only to discover that the coons were pulling the ears off the stalks and taking them over under the light to eat them, sad but true.  I laughed a lot.
  we have black vultures here too.  they are so bad that my cousin who had a fairly large cow/calf herd was loosing almost half of his calves because he couldn't be there every day because of work.  the vultures would gather when a cow would go into labor and tear the calf apart many times before the cow ever had the chance to stand back up.  he now raises steers for the most part.  and the sad thing is that because they are migratory birds they are protected by the federal government.  nope can't shoot them without a permit that you have to jump thru hoops and pay big bucks for.    some years ago I had a bald eagle carry off one of my baby goats right out of the goat yard.  freaked me out but swooped down and was gone in an instant.. 
only time it has ever happened here but was truly amazing.


----------



## Latestarter

I don't want the light to keep predators at bay... I want and keep the light so I can see them, and the animals can see them, if they come close. I know they get used to/unafraid of the light. Thing is, they can see better in the dark than I can see in the daylight... With the light on, if they get that close, I can see them well enough to shoot them. Gonna do the shave thing tomorrow (weather permitting), and if it's worrysome, will head to the vet. No fever, no other issues, same size, no change.


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> If it isn't one thing, it's another.  We have a Mountain Lion in the neighborhood now but it seems to be leaving live stock alone.  Two of the neighbors have pictures on their game cams and the state has finally admitted they are moving in.  The Black Vultures are as bad as coyotes and we know of one farm that gave up and sold out.  They will spread in a semi-circle around a ewe and her lamb and if they can wear out the ewe, they will go after the lambs eyes and then gang up and kill it.  They will do the same to a calf if given the chance or at least is what I have read.
> 
> There is one of the nasty critters hanging from a fence post and I haven't seen any since I hung that one out there.


Farm Bureau has a limited number of black vulture 'sub-permits' in some states.
http://www.tnfarmbureau.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Black-Vulture-Permit.pdf

Scroll down to the bottom for the forms.

For Kentucky:
https://fw.ky.gov/Wildlife/Documents/BlackVultureDepredationPermitProcess.pdf


----------



## Latestarter

Posted on the other thread about PB&J's lump. It was a hematoma.

Hands/wrists are improving. I had bought a number of vitamins & supplements several weeks ago hoping they would help. I've determined that this episode really started and continued to worsen since I started taking them all. I stopped taking them a couple of days ago and all the issues have started to go back into remission... Today I bought a couple of knee compression slip on sleeves. My knees have been so swollen that I could barely bend them. When going from sitting with legs elevated, to standing, I would first have to slowly bend the legs to get feet on the floor, then have to "balance" for 20-30 seconds after slowly standing to allow my legs to straighten completely so I could hobble around. Been a real be-atch!   Have had the compression bands on now for ~6 hours and the swelling has gone down some and standing/moving has improved by 50-75%. Not back to normal, but functional to do work. Really hoping that a couple of days will have the swelling gone. I have a LOT to do!

Have started drafting up the plans for a 24' x 16' doe shed with raised floor. Interior height will be 6' at back and 7' at front... so standing room inside. Will be using translucent corrugated roofing in strips, intermingled with the regular opaque ones so there will be more light inside. Am itemizing everything I need to go purchase and get started. I want to use a gutter to collect rain water runoff into their trough. Need to get that done post haste so I can get RJ sequestered, and get the does all luted for breeding in early-mid October. Really want early to mid March kids. Then need to build another hay feeder and a stanchion. I'll have room to put the stanchion inside the doe shed, so no more milking out in the weather.   Will post pictures with progress as/when it happens.

Bought a pkg of this a couple weeks ago in case my sweet tooth fired up. Made it the other night and have been forcing myself to finish it. It's TOO sweet!





Picture compliments of https://www.walmart.com/ip/Krusteaz...75035&wl11=online&wl12=10307492&wl13=&veh=sem


----------



## greybeard

Krusteaz is a pretty old (& a good) brand. I like their pancake and their biscuit mixes.


Latestarter said:


> I had bought a number of vitamins & supplements several weeks ago hoping they would help. I've determined that this episode really started and continued to worsen since I started taking them all. I stopped taking them a couple of days ago and all the issues have started to go back into remission..


I can't say I'm surprised. Most of that 'As Seen On TV' and/or ""sold at GNC"' health food supplement type stuff is just 21st century snake oil. Eat 1/2 way right most humans don't need any of it.
But, as long as people can make big (or a little) $$ of it, it'll keep being bought, sold and espoused all over the place.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Really hoping that a couple of days will have the swelling gone.


Hope all your swelling goes away soon.



greybeard said:


> Krusteaz is a pretty old (& a good) brand. I like their pancake and their biscuit mixes.


I like their pancake and waffle mixes. Never tried the biscuit mix, I normally make that from scratch.


----------



## Pastor Dave

Hey Joe,
I hate to sound like a repetitious wet blanket, but almost as soon as I cut out carbs, the inflammation left. I realize there's an age difference and you have more vigorous work to do than I, but I think it could help you a bunch. The other thing I did was get rid of table salt or cook with salt. I use a potassium chloride substitute. Still drinking my green tea too for inflammation. I am sure the combination is helping.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks Dave & others  I don't really eat a "lot" of carbs... I'm primarily a carnivore and cook meat as most meals. I try to make it "natural meat" (as in whole from that animal) as opposed to processed/packaged meats like hot dogs with all kinds of preservatives and additives. So I'll cook chicken, pork, or beef. I really should eat more fish & veggies  I have recently started eating more fruit. Don't drink coffee, primary drink is tea. I just bought several bottle of pure, unsweetened cherry juice, both tart and black, to mix with my iced tea. It's known, and I've experienced, that it helps with gout. I'm really, really, trying to control the salt intake as well. I know that will help with the water retention issues. That's harder than stopping smoking (which I did in Sept 2010 after 40 years)... There's just no "flavor" without the salt and I'm a salt addict. I've tried the salt subs before and didn't like the taste at all.  Lately I'm trying to use more spices when cooking to add that flavor instead of salt. I used to use a lot of Mrs. Dash as the balance between the spices is nice for a good flavor. I love Montreal Steak Seasoning on ribeyes, but of course that contains salt.


----------



## animalmom

You can use celery as a salt substitute.  You can add a couple stalks of celery on top of your roast, or put them inside your chicken cavity and then cook as you would otherwise.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I use lots of garlic (like whole cloves that are crushed or whatever the recipe calls for) or garlic powder and pepper. Those are my go-tos.


----------



## Mini Horses

lemon & lime juice has a tartness that helps with lowered salt.  Mrs Dash knew that.


----------



## greybeard

http://theweek.com/speedreads/788087/jordan-peterson-allbeef-diet--90-daughter-tell-all-about






As much as I love beef, I'd have to have 'something' to go with it.


----------



## Latestarter

Those rib eyes look good, but it's a travesty cooking them in a fry pan... The real thin cut ones are OK fried as a breakfast steak, but they're only in the pan for a minute or two. IMHO, the only way to cook a rib eye is on a grill, or over an open flame/coals...


----------



## Latestarter

Now, on a totally different subject, one more T-post to pound and the buck jail is ready. Heading over to my hay guy tonight to re-stock hay and the boys are all done with unsupervised mating! They head into their nice new cozy containment area tonight. The hay guy has a new mix I'm going to try. It's an alfalfa/orchard grass mix in the same size 60-65#, 2 string bales. It's a dollar more ($13.50), but if they waste less of the hay, it will be worth it. So I'll pick up a dozen of the regular alfalfa and a couple of the mix. I'll try a mix with each; the boys and the does, and see how it goes over. Damned spoiled goats  My luck, they'll like it more.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> IMHO, the only way to cook a rib eye is on a grill, or over an open flame/coals...



X2!


----------



## Pastor Dave

In the winter I get by with my Foreman Grill and a little Liquid Smoke, but Spring thru Fall is definitely charcoal.


----------



## RollingAcres

Winter here


----------



## Mini Horses

DARN!!   You do NOT need to post pics of the white stuff!!!!!  I will believe you....you grill in the winter.


----------



## RollingAcres

Mini Horses said:


> DARN!!   You do NOT need to post pics of the white stuff!!!!!  I will believe you....you grill in the winter.


----------



## Latestarter

I have some confused, ticked off, lost and dazed, non female goats. I just got back from picking up the hay and I separated RJ, Beast and Three Socks into the new buck pen. They have a nice new bale of alfalfa/orchard mix hay, had some pellets, and have their own water trough as well as shelter, which the girls do NOT have yet. The girls are all hanging out down by the divider fence and RJ has climbed up with his forelegs and put his head over the top of the 50" cattle panels. No jumping or trying to clear them yet. I have the ability to put a hot wire on top and will if RJ starts doing anything exceptionally stupid.

Is it possible for a male goat to have 3 balls? I ask because I made absolutely sure I had 2, south of the band, on Beast when he got banded. But he sure acts like he's still got the stuff. RJ chases him (to head butt) sometimes as well which he doesn't do to TS or any of the does, well, except when he wants to hump them... Then he chases them all over the field relentlessly...

Anyway... barring anything unforeseen, I'll lute the girls when I get back from Mike's place, so they should go into heat within 36 hours of the shot. 21 days later, on/about the 8th of October, they should be back in heat again and that's when I'll let RJ have his way with them. That will mean kidding to start right around March 7th... Perfect!

I hope RJ doesn't destroy my buck pen work overnight...   Tomorrow I start on the girls shelter.


----------



## Mike CHS

When we had wethers they still mounted others and they were castrated so I know they had no working parts


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> That will mean kidding to start right around March 7th... Perfect



You just jinxed it!  Just HAD to add that last word, right?  

Beast may just be more of a challenge to RJ -- personality thing.
I've banded a hundred or more and never found 3 of them...so, I believe you did ok.       Let us know if boys & girls are still separated in the morning.


----------



## Bruce

Or if you have any fence still standing


----------



## CntryBoy777

There is a difference between Comet and Lightning....Lightning will display more "buck" than Comet, but they both will run poor Star when she is in estrus.


----------



## farmerjan

Any castrated male can and will show some signs of "male behaviour" at times.  Females will often mount each other when they are coming in heat.  If you band or castrate early in life, they tend to show less.  Males that are older when castrated will often show more male behaviour.  No big deal.


----------



## Latestarter

Stayed up till ~2am working on/finishing the plans and mats list for the doe shelter. Got it all finished and ready to start shopping. Priced out major mats totals ~$1,780.00. There will be additional expenses for things like screws, exterior latex paint, and such but +/- $100, that's what I'm gonna have to spend.  This is for a 24' x 16' x ~7' enclosed shed with 2 - 4' openings at either end on the front and an internal center divider wall with 4' opening/pass through.  The roof will be translucent, poly, corrugated with UV protection so they'll have light inside as well. The openings face almost exactly east so will catch morning warming rays in winter. So the spoiled little divas will have ~380 sqft to sleep in and avoid weather in. There are 10 of them, so 38 sqft each   Up to a 50-60% chance of rain over the coming 4-5 days, so always a chance they're gonna experience "wild goat - always outside" conditions at some point soon  least temps aren't going below mid 70s so less chance of them "catching cold"... 

Good news (so far) is that the boys are still where I put them, they enjoyed their morning pellets with no issues/fighting/trying to escape, and are eating (& liking?) the mixed alfalfa/orchard grass hay I bought.    things remain as they are/status quo.

Cleaned up the hay area and pallets, the tarp is destroyed and needs replaced. I have one in the shed that will work as a temp fix till I can buy a new one. Have to wait a couple hours for everything to dry out then will unload/stack/store hay. With the recent rain we've had, we're back to real heavy morning dew and of course we have lots of humidity to go with the heat. The hay in the truck bed, parked under the car port, still is damp this morning.  After I get that done, it will be time to mats shop and get started building.

Hands and wrist as well as knees aren't at 100%, so gonna be kinda slow going, but gotta get 'er done. Have a great day all!  I'll try to force myself to take/post some pics as I progress.


----------



## RollingAcres

Glad to hear the boys didn't tear up/destroy anything.
You have a great day as well and take it easy on your body.



Latestarter said:


> I ask because *I made absolutely sure I had 2*


And lastly, I chuckled when I read this part.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad everything made it so far....gives ya some confidence moving forward............about the pass-thru opening, have a thought on being able to close it off.....it could be beneficial as an isolation room, or separating kids and does......


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> There are 10 of them, so 38 sqft each


If they are like chickens you can't have too much room per individual. Crowding makes for fussy!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Sounds like a good plan, I’m sure the girls will love their shelter. Our lamancha kids have surprised me lately, we’ve had some minor popup showers, they didn’t even bother coming up into their barn, they were content with staying in the woods 

Have you looked into carports? Some friends of ours down the street got several when they moved over here. The price was pretty good and it was put up in a day or two. It’s gotta be difficult to build from the ground up without anyone to lend a hand. 

Glad your doeling ended up being okay.


----------



## Latestarter

I am wiped... After the lawn dried up I weed whacked around the hay area then stacked the hay and tarped it. Then it was the heat of the day so hopped on the mower and mowed the front yard, the drive by the house, the side yard and down around the hay and the pasture entrance. Headed to Lowes around 4pm to buy the shelter supplies. Got everything loaded in the truck and trailer with the help of a couple of young men. Got home at 6pm. Finished unloading all the dimensional lumber and stacking it at 9pm. Just got out of the shower and am eating a banana and sliced up orange. Lightning and thunder all around me but nothing's really moving... just sitting where it's at. I left the OSB and plywood in the trailer and backed the trailer under the carport just in case it rains. So if we get hail or winds blow down the oak limbs, my truck is doomed... but the wood will stay dry!  Tomorrow I'll go out and start placing concrete pads for support and lay out the joists. Hopefully I'll get the flooring installed tomorrow as well.

I'm tired, sore, and moving slow...


----------



## Latestarter

The "pass through" I was referring to is like a doorway in the center wall. I will eventually put in a door to separate the two sides and put exterior doors so animals can be closed up inside. It will be big enough inside that I can make 2 - 6'x10' stalls on each side and still leave myself a 6'x12' aisle (ETA: on each side of the center wall) to work in.

Just did a sum spent on mats to this point and am sitting at ~$1,510. Still have to buy the roofing @ home depot, & that will be $395 + tax.

Well, we did actually get rain. Have let Mel inside, the goats are not thrilled but not complaining either. I think I saw the boys standing inside their shelter going  at the girls   The girls were all standing down near the gate to get in the boy's side. It was kept open until the boys got locked down. It's all dying down now. I doubt I'll be able to convince Mel to go back out now... He's warmed up a nice spot on the cool floor under the ceiling fan. 

Elf, I determined, has a very bad infestation of fleas.   I ended up buying the generic front line at wally world for both of them and they've been dosed. I have had zero flea issues here until now... I have to think Elf brought them here from the pound when I got him.

PB&J has now started growing a new lump on her side  It's aft of the last one and not connected that I can see...   It's another blood blister. I'm thinking vet this time. Something is just not right here.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Latestarter said:


> PB&J has now started growing a new lump on her side  It's aft of the last one and not connected that I can see...  It's another blood blister. I'm thinking vet this time. Something is just not right here.



Sorry about the worry this one is causing.  Hope it something not too serious, I'll be watching for an update on your girl.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> my truck is doomed... but the wood will stay dry!



So the girls can have shelter....heck with truck!  Yep, here too.

Bet you are tired, sore & moving slow!  It's a lot of work for a young'un, add 40 yrs and there ya go!     Do as Mel is--rest.

Overall, not a bad price for the shed.  My girls have a 16X32 --but, I have 15 now -- and open at each end as yours.  Front is partitioned with boards like a fence and connects to a section is 24X32 & used for parking equipment...tractor, mower, etc.  Works well.  I have several portable panels that connect like a horse round pen, just shorter.  I use those to separate when need.  From old horse show days.  They have sure been handy!     Of course, I've been here 19 years, and built this some time ago.  Overall it's one building just way long on back side....an A with tall open one side, long and lower (7') on back.  Back section a run-in barn.  I can back a trailer of hay right in there, move tractor over. 



Latestarter said:


> PB&J has now started growing a new lump on her side  It's aft of the last one and not connected that I can see...  It's another blood blister. I'm thinking vet this time. Something is just not right here.



Oh, no.   seems she may have a slow leak.  Hope it's nothing serious....well, you know.  Since bleed can stop but needs to.  They may need to cauterize somewhere.  Just what ya need, another bill.  I know the feeling.


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## Baymule

I am glad that you are getting shelter built for the goats. My poor sheep have had a 3 sided shelter with 2 sheets of OSB for a top, wrapped in tar paper since we bought them. Finally, just this summer they got a 20'x24' roof over them. I put the radiant heat barrier film under the tin and it really cuts the heat. They love it. They still go lay down in their old shelter, since I don't have outside walls up, they can keep it until we get walls up. 

so I know the joys of having a temporary shelter and the happiness of finally getting something much better built. I am sorry that your knees and hands are not cooperating with you, but I know you-you will grit your teeth and just keep on going until they knock you flat and you have to spend some recliner time. You are so meticulous and want every little detail to be just so. You have your plans drawn up, now you have the materials and you are immersed in building a very nice barn. I know you will like having that done, but in the mean time......sore, ouch, creaky knees, swollen fingers, and crawling in the house in the evening for food, drink, shower and sleep......


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Sorry about PB&J. I agree that a trip to the vet is now unavoidable. 

Hope that the barn isn’t too difficult for you and doesn’t take too long!


----------



## Southern by choice

Strange strange and strange!  So bizarre this will be interesting to see what the vet says. 

I know GW mentioned it but I did attach a price list- there are other companies that may have lower pricing... the carports are a great value but you have to watch how you order them.
They are ideal in one way because it is up in one day! You have immediate shelter... Most people we know just get the carport with upgraded legs and supports. No walls. That really makes a difference.
Then they have time to lay out how they want the walls and inside and add that as $ allows and time.  
We found that often they have deals/sales. Just a thought LS. 

I think the 18 X 26 is the a good value with extended legs.  

Friends of ours ended up getting 2 small ones because they were "on sale" for 750 each.  
Being just one person it may be beneficial to have the supports and roof up and you can finish the rest. 
So difficult to find help these days. 

http://www.texascarports.com/TCStandard CarportPricing.htm


----------



## Mini Horses

have 2 of these carports.  LOVE them.  Been 18 years but my 18X24 or 26's (?) were $595 installed back then.   Probably heavier metal , too.   Even got extra support bars for that $$.
Would get more but, now the budget creaks and prices higher.

I have tarped sides some years, used for hay storage, hay feeding, shade, containment shelters with portable CP on sides, even parked vehicles & equipment.  It was fast shelter then and they are still great! Almost no wear showing on them either.  

Another thing,  no RE taxes as a building, portable.


----------



## Latestarter

I was able to do exactly nothing today ...  After yesterday's workout, I was swollen, sore, stiff, and barely ambulatory today. I guess the stress on all the finger joints and my wrists fired up my gout and my thumbs, hands, and some fingers are all swollen. The med the VA used to prescribe for me that dissolved the crystals is no longer on their formulary so they can't prescribe it anymore.   It's the only drug (they told me) that will actually dissolve the crystals... That being the case, the price must have gotten prohibitive... My doc said they could petition to see if they'll allow it in my case, but that it's not a good probability. I can work if I can hobble, but can't do anything if I have no hand grip strength...  really sucks.

Got up and forced myself to do animal chores then spent the day crashed in the recliner with ice packs. Hopefully I'll be recovered enough tomorrow to go back to work.  I've considered those instant carport shelters but the ground is so uneven that I'd need a dozer in here to make a spot for one to be set up. I plan on a dozer and fill when I do the actual barn. Afraid that's going to have to wait till my next big pay raise (social security), which unfortunately doesn't come soon enough... still over a year away @ November 2019. This structure, like the last, will be done mostly with screws so I can take it back down and re-use everything with minimal damage. Size and layout is to maximize lumber dimensions with minimum cutting.

The goats have been enjoying their stacks of lumber to climb on.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Have you tried tart cherry juice for the gout?  It really helps my DH...usually within 24 hours.  Hope you feel better!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sorry ya are having such discomfort there Joe.......the weather here hasn't been too kind to us either, but sooner or later it will subside.........yeh, those goats will be just tickled "pink" if ya let them supervise the construction of the building...........Comet and Lightning always did.....


----------



## Bruce

Sorry you are so beat up Joe. Hard to do nothing and heal when there are things that need to be done.


----------



## Mike CHS

I sure hate that you are having to go through all of this but I also have no doubt that you will get done what you need to get done.


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## RollingAcres

LS sorry that you are in such pain.


----------



## Baymule

Hope you are feeling better this morning. We got an inch of rain yesterday evening. Did you get any rain? The dampness probably isn’t doing you any favors.


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## Wehner Homestead

Other than it keeps him from working on the goat shed so he can rest a little more...sorry that you are hurting!


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## Latestarter

We've had sprinkles here... the big stuff has been all around me but none directly over me. Enough continuous moisture/dampness that everything plant based has come back to life and is growing with a vengeance  As dry as I've been, I mowed the other day what had been basically dormant and the mower was bogging down it was so high. Haven't even really started on the pastures and they're going to be a real bear. Probably will get more later today as it's very humid, we have west to east air movement, and there's lots of rain over to the west.


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## greybeard

Southern by choice said:


> Strange strange and strange!  So bizarre this will be interesting to see what the vet says.
> 
> I know GW mentioned it but I did attach a price list- there are other companies that may have lower pricing... the carports are a great value but you have to watch how you order them.
> They are ideal in one way because it is up in one day! You have immediate shelter... Most people we know just get the carport with upgraded legs and supports. No walls. That really makes a difference.
> Then they have time to lay out how they want the walls and inside and add that as $ allows and time.
> We found that often they have deals/sales. Just a thought LS.
> 
> I think the 18 X 26 is the a good value with extended legs.
> 
> Friends of ours ended up getting 2 small ones because they were "on sale" for 750 each.
> Being just one person it may be beneficial to have the supports and roof up and you can finish the rest.
> So difficult to find help these days.
> 
> http://www.texascarports.com/TCStandard CarportPricing.htm


When these are assembled on dirt, what keeps them from just picking up in the wind and blowing away?
(The ones I looked at were recommended to be installed on a concrete footer and screwed down to the footer)

I saw several of those type structures wrapped around cars and utility poles after hurricane Ike and Rita.

By the time I figured in the 'options' I was able to build one turnkey out of treated 4x6 & 4x4 posts and dimensional lumber just about as cheap, roofed and closed in on 3 sides. 32 'X24'.
I get 20 4x5 bales in it if I place them carefully.

(I no longer try to build things to 'last a lifetime', they just has to last MY lifetime' )


----------



## Southern by choice

They come with anchors and also upgraded anchors- from what I understand the upgraded are for anchoring mobile homes etc to be complaint with blah blah blah code.
Our friends that had theirs put in said the anchors were 3 ft deep... the just got the shell carport. Done in a day then they walled the whole building on the weekends because they both work outside the home, and made a milkroom, stalls etc.
They had moved and basically need a roof over their herd immediately.  They now have 3 buildings... they've done a great job with them and added a shed roof to both sides of the biggest one they got. 
When we move if there isn't a barn already there this is probably what we will do to.
 I can no longer build like I use to and my kids being grown and gone means no man power.   You know how it is... you cannot appreciate strength and health until you lose it. 
DH can't do it alone and honestly I wouldn't want him too. Sides are fine but roof- time etc... are a whole different story. 
These buildings are quite common here.


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## Latestarter

Well, day one of the build has stopped due to inclement weather. A light sprinkle I'd work through but it really started coming down and power tools outside in the rain just don't mix. I almost got all the stringers tacked in on the first 12' x 16' section... two more to go. Just a single screw in the end of each right now to hold it in place till I can make sure it's square. Had hoped to get the PT plywood down to hold everything in place so the goats don't tear it all up. It's level and almost right on square, corner to corner measure. I'll know for sure when I put down the first course of plywood. I can then "adjust" it a little either way to make it square. You can tell it's raining, and the poor goats were screaming at me because they were getting wet.   You can see RJ's head sticking out of the edge of the shelter watching the girls get a shower. Back at it tomorrow


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## greybeard

I prefer Simpson (strong ties) for hanging joists and rafters. 
 

Layout their placement on each header with a speed sq and tape measure before starting, nail them in, and then make the square or rectangle frame. Drop the joists in and nail the joists in tight after making sure plumb & square. 
(actually, I sometimes prefer to put the joists on top of the header--use it as a sill)


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## Mini Horses

Job moving right along!  A shower won't hurt them (won't convince THEM of that) and it's warm there, so all is good.

LS - Did you have the severity with the gout before moving to TX?   Just wondering if anything with that change is a contributing aggravator.   Water, heat, humidity, etc.    And since you can no longer get the same meds from VA now, any chance you can get RX and buy elsewhere?  Many Canadian pharmacies ship USA.  You know not all prices are equal.  I'd sure ASK for an special consideration    nothing to lose.


----------



## Latestarter

greybeard said:


> (I no longer try to build things to 'last a lifetime', they just have to last MY lifetime' )


Me too and because of that:



greybeard said:


> I prefer Simpson (strong ties) for hanging joists and rafters.


I'm not using hardware... simply lining them up and nailing them straight through. 3 - 6" #5 pole barn nails to each joist end. The deck screws were just a temp thing to get everything started and lined up.

The goats decided to play pirate and walk the planks. The result was that one turned and pulled the screw out and several others got loosened. That's why I really wanted to get the plywood down... Anyway, I went ahead and rolled everything (tools) back down there and placed the final 2 joists and nailed everything in tight. They can play pirate now all they want... Those joists shouldn't move now. Tomorrow is supposed to be cloudy & ~80° so not too bad, but of course humid. I expect to have the other side completed and all the flooring down tomorrow. Then I'll start on the walls. This is gonna be a LOT bigger than I pictured in my mind...

Mini, the gout is what it is... I wouldn't say it's gotten worse because of anything environmental... It's just my careless living and diet catching up to me after all these years. I've begun to root and am not moving like I used to either which is not helping anything. I've lost 20 pounds and am down to 280. So basically 100 more to go - in my dreams (and even then I'll STILL be considered obese ). The govt and medical community wants me to weigh what I did in 8th grade...   I'm not trying to take it off fast as that never works. It's going to be a slow process over time. If I can get back down to around 200 I'll be very happy.


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## Bruce

Do they want you to be the same height you were in 8th grade as well?


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I'm not using hardware... simply lining them up and nailing them straight through. 3 - 6" #5 pole barn nails to each joist end. The deck screws were just a temp thing to get everything started and lined up.


Well, my stuff hopefully doesn't have to last 'too' much longer, but while it's here, it has to hold up..........both in time and weight. The floored barn I use up in the front (north end) of the property  holds the tractor with a round bale on the back of it as I stack them in rows 5 deep.. How long that will continue to be the case....I don't know.


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## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Mini, the gout is what it is... I wouldn't say it's gotten worse because of anything environmental... It's just my careless living and diet catching up to me after all these years. I've begun to root and am not moving like I used to either which is not helping anything. I've lost 20 pounds and am down to 280. So basically 100 more to go - in my dreams (and even then I'll STILL be considered obese ). The govt and medical community wants me to weigh what I did in 8th grade...  I'm not trying to take it off fast as that never works. It's going to be a slow process over time. If I can get back down to around 200 I'll be very happy.



Yeah, all that is part of aging, not being accountable to others (as in, no one there to share, impress, correct or watch out for THEM  ) and we ALL DO IT.  Some days I don't "dress for success" either.   But you do see what is needed & helping.  That and addressing the fact is over 1/2 the correction process.   I know you have the health problem, just hate to see you so uncomfortable & hindering your ability to do all you want and dreamed.   My nature to try to help improve.    So keep drinking a LOT of water/tea, eat more veggies, and all that.    Losing 20 # is HUGE!!!   Slow is always better as you change your eating to a more permanent thing as you go slowly.  Nothing happens overnight, even the gain. 


AND no matter the pain, the barn is coming along well.   We both know your girls will love you for it!!!      They thought they were helping you by walking on those boards


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## farmerjan

Losing 20 lbs. is no small feat.  Doing it slowly and keeping it off is the key so you are doing good.  Since I am NO CARPENTER, what you are doing looks real good to me.  I hate doing carpentry work.  
And doing it by yourself is really the pits.  As @Mini Horses  said, you don't take the time or effort to dress to impress or other things because no one else is there to see it, comment on it, or benefit from it.  I am guilty of it too at the house by myself.  At least the animals make you get up and get going for them.  I am seriously thinking of a "boarder or housemate" to not only share the costs, but to do some of the stuff I hate and don't have time for.


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## Baymule

Looking good so far, Joe. We got 1 1/4" of RAIN!


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## Baymule

It is wet and drizzly this morning. Joe, I know how badly you want to be building your barn, weather has thrown you a curve ball. Getting wet and chilled won't help you any, so try to stay dry if you can.


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## Latestarter

The last 16' joist was shattered at the end. Tried screwing it together to use it but no go. So loaded it back in the trailer and off to Lowes I went to swap it out. !/2 way home I look in the rear view and there's no 16' 2x6 sticking up out of my 12' trailer anymore  So I hit the break down and go back to see what's the deal... It's gone! Like pigs with wings... gone. So I wait for a clear road, swing a 180, and head back hoping I can find it still in one piece... About a mile back I find it in splinters and all over the road and breakdown area on the side of the road   so just keep right on going to Home Depot to get a replacement. Anyway, here's where I stand at close of work today, day 2.




I already had to rescue Champ as she decided to crawl into the space between the first joists on the right there and couldn't get through or back out. Had to grab her rear hocks and haul her backwards to get her out. The little ones can easily fit under the other end where it's much higher off the ground. Here's a wider view.



As you can see, there will be plenty of room inside when it's complete. That's one complete row of 4x8 plywood and the start of a second of a total of 4. I'm a little concerned that a 16' span might have been too much for a 2x6 board... May have been better to run the joists side to side at 12' length or use 2x8s... we'll see. Here's the trailer with all the OSB for the walls, the rest of the plywood for the floor and you can see the stacks of framing material on the ground.



And here's Mel watching for me at the gate after I put all the tools away and hoping he's going to get some inside time. Sorry boy, not tonight.


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## Mike CHS

You can always go back and sister additional 2x6's if it looks like you have some sag.  You got a good bunch of work done in a fairly short time considering all of your 'helpers' out there.


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## Bruce

Hard to do after the plywood is screwed down though! Since the land slopes in 2 directions, you could maybe get a carrying beam in from the low side and slide it up to the higher side. Single 2x6s should do it. Might have to dig down a bit on the high end.

Do you not need more support under the sides? Seems like there will be a lot of weight over open air.

Make sure to tell the goats to not pee or poop on the plywood until you have a chance to blackjack it.


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## CntryBoy777

Yeh....looks really Good, Joe.....and I know who the topic of the scuttle-but in the doe yard is tonite....they are excited that ya did that just for Them.....


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## greybeard

Before you get all the plywood down, if you have any wooden fence posts (or even better) treated 4x4 or 4x6 scraps laying around, go along and nail them to the joists, with one end touching on the ground. Will prevent sag and bounce.


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## Baymule

Your barn floor is almost ready for a barn dance! Looks like the goats are getting an early start.


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## greybeard




----------



## Latestarter

Bunch of added work and time GB but yeah, I think I'll have to do both of those things before I finish putting down any more flooring. Gotta say it's a royal pain in the knees to be climbing over those joists repeatedly...


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## greybeard

You may be able to get by with just adding the joist to ground supports on every other joist and not every one. 
Depends on the max load you ever intend for the floor to 'see'.


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## RollingAcres

It's looking good LS. Your goats will be happy when it's all done.


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## Latestarter

Heaviest load would probably be me at ~300#/sqft. Then again, since the goats weight is all on a small hoof, that may equate to more than that. Either way, no heavy machinery or bulk storage. I think I'll do the joist to ground on each and put a paver or brick under to keep it from sinking into the ground over time. I have extra of both pavers and bricks lying around. Think I'll put one each at the mid point of the 12' sill spans as well.


----------



## greybeard

Yes, I meant to show the other 'legs' along the ends of the drawing's 'side view' but forgot.
Keep in mind, that the frame is already holding up significant weight...that of itself. With nothing to support the middle part, it will sag under it's own weight over time, the floor will become dish shaped and screws will begin to pull out from the ends of the joists and it won't take long to show up.

Place a 16' 2x6/8/or 10  on it's edge, with a brick @ each end, and within just a few weeks, the center will bow down from only it's own weight. Gravity, it's everywhere and it never sleeps..


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I spied Mel in the last pic! 

Progress looks good!


----------



## goatgurl

looking like the girls are going to be snug as a bug in a rug this winter.  i'm sorry you are having to deal with so much discomfort with your hands and knees.  hope it gets better.  and I hate to admit it but I did get a little chortle out of the flying pig comment.  hate that you lost the board tho.


----------



## Latestarter

All of my aches and pains decided to migrate south yesterday afternoon and settle in my right ankle and foot. It got so bad I wanted to crawl vice walk and put any weight at all on it. I don't have a crutch and considered breaking out one of my shotguns to act the part.  I did get animal chores done but it was so bad by 8:30 that I took an opiate pain killer combined with an Excedrin and a Ibuprofen and a new arthritis pain killer med they gave me (that I can't tell if it's working or not) and went to bed. Didn't finally get to sleep till after 1am. By this morning, most of the pain and swelling had subsided and I put on compression socks and compression knee sleeves. Been damp and misty here all day so decided no work today.

On the joist supports, I've decided to marry both examples GB showed. I'll nail in a "T" between joists with the center support down to a paver so I can support 2 joists at once.

I called and made an Enterprise rental car reservation for pickup Friday and return Monday. My truck is getting old and tired and it's not that I don't trust it for the trip this weekend, but with the better gas mileage from the rental, it won't cost me more and probably will work out cheaper to make the trip. They said I could park my truck there over the weekend. I reserved a Hyundai Elantra "class" vehicle but they can't guarantee make or model, so I have no idea what it will be. Guess it will have to be a surprise when I go to pick it up.

@CntryBoy777 Based on maps and projections, I should be at out meeting place between noon and noon:30 on Saturday. I'll let you know what I'll be driving so you'll recognize me (maybe)... I expect we will arrive at @Mike CHS's place some time around 3pm or a little later.


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## Mike CHS

Rental cars are the way to go.  When Teresa flew to Charleston last week she actually spent less on air fare and a rental car than I usually spend driving there and back.


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## CntryBoy777

I think things will work out just fine.......and am looking forward to saturday.....it sure won't be boring....


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Guess it will have to be a surprise when I go to pick it up.


If you are lucky it will be a Prius and save you even more on gas. Only 10 gallons each way to Mike's  Don't know if Enterprise has them now though. They did in Feb 2004 when I rented 1 for a week to decide if I wanted to buy one. That was before they got "hot" and people were waiting months to get one.


----------



## babsbag

Dek Blocks. There is an entire website devoted to these work of wonder.  These things are amazing and until a person tries them don't knock them. They sit on the ground, no leveling from block to block needed and each block just needs to not rock but doesn't have to be dead level. No concrete required.  They aren't cheap but our local lumber yard sells them for 1/2 of what Lowe's does. I have built two decks, a chicken coop, 3 shed floors, and a two storage areas in the barn. I built them myself, alone and alone.  Here is a side view of the coop, you can see the slope that I was working on. As long as the soil is stable these bricks rock. 


Here is section two of the front deck. I did a 12x12 first (and made a believer out of my DH) and then this section and have since added a third that goes to the end of the house. It is very easy to add additional sections, I did our back deck in two sections as well.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> As long as the soil is stable these bricks rock.


Isn't that an oxymoron? 

Always nice to have an endorsement from someone who has used a product.


----------



## babsbag

I suppose it is at that.  My DH was very skeptical when I told him what I was going to do. I think that I did the back deck first, but I know that whichever one it was I did it while he was gone to work for 3 days and not around to tell me that it wouldn't work.  I simply followed directions, no extra engineering, and no short cuts and they are all amazingly steady.


----------



## Latestarter

I could buy those blocks but I'm trying to do this on the cheap and use some stuff that I already have here. I have a bunch of 12"x12" red walkway pavers and a semi circle of cinder blocks from where the previous owner once had an above ground pool. I used all new wood, PT for anything that touches "ground/blocks" but regular for everything else. Couldn't afford PT plywood for the walls on this big a project so went with OSB. Of course I know it's crap and will eventually flake and fall apart without constant maintenance... I hope to get a good multi coat of sealant paint on it inside and out once completed. That ought to give me a good 5 years before a re-do will be needed. I used 3/4" PT plywood for the flooring. It has worked really well in the buck shelter (1/2 inch there due to much smaller size and closer/shorter joists). The goat pellets dry right out and disintegrate into powder...


----------



## Baymule

*On the joist supports, I've decided to marry both examples GB showed. I'll nail in a "T" between joists with the center support down to a paver so I can support 2 joists at once.*

Are you saying that you are going to block between the joists and put the 4x4 in the middle of the block in an attempt to support 2 joists? I am no carpenter, but I don't believe that this will strengthen the support of the floor like @greybeard suggested. I could be wrong and this might be a brilliant idea, but I haven't ever seen it done this way.


----------



## babsbag

Unfortunately I agree with Baymule. 

BTW...my goats eat OSB, they love it.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I reserved a Hyundai Elantra "class" vehicle but they can't guarantee make or model, so I have no idea what it will be. Guess it will have to be a surprise when I go to pick it up.


That's code talk for Yugo..


----------



## greybeard

I understood he was going to do something along these lines:


 

Cement deck blocks work good on hard soils.
Sister used them under here front porch. I average 2x/year going over there and leveling the porch where they sunk down in the soil and last time, I told her if she ever used any of that crap again I'd burn her house down.
Her 30+ year old son was there helping me and quipped "And I'm gonna help him".


----------



## babsbag

Our soil doesn't budge. It isn't clay, it isn't rock, it isn't sand...heck, maybe it isn't even dirt.  

But there are cement blocks and then there are Dek-Blocks. They are not all created equal. These things weigh about 43 lbs a piece and it takes quite a few, I believe the spacing is not more than 5' and the joists are 2' on center. The weight is really well distributed. It looks like their website is no longer available but I have built so many of them I think I have it memorized. If I had to do all of these projects with a post hole digger and concrete I would have died a long time ago.


----------



## greybeard

I'm probably as old as you and I can tell you, digging post holes never hurt anyone. 



 



> But there are cement blocks and then there are Dek-Blocks. They are not all created equal. These things weigh about 43 lbs a piece



The weight of the block has zero to do with it's ability to distribute load over any given sized area.

It's size in footprint does. If anyone in East Texas put that many supports under a deck or porch, they'd be hauled off to the insane asylum.


----------



## babsbag

If anyone in my part of CA tried to dig post holes by hand, especially in the summer, they too would be hauled off to the insane asylum.  The last time I tried it bent the spades on the digger, so I tried tool number two, same problem. I bought a twisting type of digger, nope.   So getting desperate and thinking outside of the "hole" I improvised and put  a 1.5" spade bit on an impact driver and it wore out the bit before I got a 3" hole dug. We use things like trenchers as post hole diggers and make a big "x" and dig it out; the 3 point hitch ones are useless. I have one on my bobcat that actually works but it could never get to all the places I needed holes for decks etc. and I didn't own it when I did most of these.   Hand held augers are out of the question unless you want a broken wrist. Dynamite might work.  I have dug some by hand for actual fences but with no rain for 5-6 months at a spell it is never an easy feat and you have to time it just right.


----------



## Latestarter

greybeard said:


> That's code talk for Yugo..


 That's fine... I'll appreciate the improved gas mileage for sure. Gonna be a total of around 1100-1200 miles.  With my truck, that's ~4 full tanks or ~$200+ in gas. The rental is ~$100 and gas costs should be around $100 as well, so ~same cost financially and no added wear/tear on my old truck. Fair trade in my mind. When I was doing the rental stuff, I glanced at the various upgrades and to rent an F-150 or equivalent for the same period would have been over $500. At that rate, the truck would be paid in full in well under a year... like 6 months or less if rented full time. I should start a truck rental business... 

As for the deck/joist support system... guess a lot of different ways work and you have to do what's best for your location...  I plan to do a double 2x6 horizontal block between 2 joists with a 2x6 sandwiched and centered vertically between them, down to a concrete paver. I see no reason it wouldn't work or provide enough support for what I'm doing. There will be no appreciable weight load on this floor and the weight of the bldg itself will be concentrated around the exterior edges and the doubled up centerline joists, which will also be vertically supported. The exterior sills will be supported at ~6' intervals and the interior joists at 8' intervals. The wall weight loads won't be excessive, nor will the roof as I will not be doing wood underlayment and shingles... Just purlins and the poly corrugated roofing. The process of attaching the OSB to the wall studs and the sills will add additional support and rigidity to the entire structure.


----------



## greybeard

You will be fine in NE Texas doing it as you describe, but, will you have enough width on your sills to provide footprint for the wall studs? (Part of the stud will be on the sill and part on just the plywood?)


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

greybeard said:


> If anyone in East Texas put that many supports under a deck or porch, they'd be hauled off to the insane asylum.





babsbag said:


> If anyone in my part of CA tried to dig post holes by hand, especially in the summer, they too would be hauled off to the insane asylum.



  You guys crack me up!


----------



## greybeard

> babsbag said: ↑
> If anyone in my part of CA tried to dig post holes by hand, especially in the summer, they too would be hauled off to the insane asylum.



There are lots of folks in the world that believe all of CA (or at least the southern 1/2 of it)  already IS one big insane asylum.


----------



## goatgurl

oh come on greybeard just 'cause that's true doesn't you should make babs feel bad.  and we dang sure don'w want to encourage them to move back this direction.
@Latestarter youall be careful on your journey, have a great time and we want lots of pictures.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Of course I know it's crap and will eventually flake and fall apart without constant maintenance... I hope to get a good multi coat of sealant paint on it inside and out once completed.


Maybe you could Blackjack it and it will last a lot longer? Probably want to do that BEFORE it is installed so you can ensure all parts are coated. Of course you would have to paint over the exterior with a different color.


----------



## RollingAcres

goatgurl said:


> oh come on greybeard just 'cause that's true doesn't you should make babs feel bad. and we dang sure don'w want to encourage them to move back this direction.





Your direction maybe. They won't move up here to NY or VT, we have SNOW here.


----------



## Mini Horses

OK-- where I live, my poor goats have a DIRT FLOOR    It stays dry...except if a spot of fresh pee in their shavings.  That dries.   They still love me. 
SO GLAD I am not building    but, maybe something like a pole barn shed would have been OK -- Even if you needed to fill with some dirt in the floor area.   Yeah, hind sight.


----------



## greybeard

RollingAcres said:


> Your direction maybe. They won't move up here to NY or VT, we have SNOW here.


Yes there is that, but we have heat, ticks, hurricanes, thorns of every description, skeeters from hades, venomous serpents, every varmint imaginable and they STILL come, bringing their essential oils, moonbat ideologies, and the same idiosyncrasies that made them want to leave Ca to begin with, instead of staying there and fixing their own state. Makes no sense to me.
There's a reason every state in the US has their own version of this:


----------



## babsbag

Boy, it's easy to see that no one on BYH will ever move to CA. While I agree that our politics are screwed up I'm afraid that there are too many of "them" since the "us" keep moving to Texas. That being said I love our weather and I'm likely to go anywhere. If I did it would be Southern OR, AZ, or maybe parts of UT or NV but most likely I am here to stay and I just slap my head and look the other way as much as possible. Of course I vote, but doesn't seem to do much good.

@greybeard you bring up a valid point. I have always built a 2x6 PT wood deck on my foundation system for the sheds and the sheds were kits with their own floors, I was just providing a level spot to install them. The chicken coop we put a second row of 2x6's at the places where the walls were anchored and it is light framed building with a metal roof so not a lot of weight. You have to remember that we don't get hurricanes here either.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, first steps of the process for my upcoming trip tomorrow have been accomplished.  It's definitely not a yugo...



The rental shop had their internet lines cut for the past several days so had no idea what was coming/going or what would be needed. They offered me this or my choice between 2 Chevy 4 door pick ups, all at the agreed upon rate. i sat in this one and it was pretty comfortable so said what the heck... and here we are. So my trip will be done in a radar cop magnet.   What have I done to myself?   I have no intention of speeding (more than most/anyone else), so should be OK.  Have managed to dodge (get it? Dodge? ) the past 2 tickets but have absolutely no desire to press my luck with it going fwd. Maybe I should have held out for a Viper? I have to say though... this little vehicle has some "giddy up and go" when needed.


----------



## RollingAcres

That's not a Yugo for sure!

@Mike CHS if LS & @CntryBoy777 are late showing up to the get together, you know they're most probably pulled over by a cop (or several cops) for speeding. 

Safe travels @Latestarter @CntryBoy777 and @Rammy !


----------



## CntryBoy777

There are a few towns along the way to mind the "p"s and "q"s in, but between the city limit signs +5 above posted is not an issue. In this area it is harvesting time, so there could be equipment headed to and from fields along the way....hopefully, we'll be able to avoid most of it by the time we come thru there.....we should have a Blast and a ton of laughs, great food, and wonderful company....can't wait to get the party Started.....


----------



## Bruce

Sure wouldn't be saving any gas money with the 4 door pickups!

Has to be red doesn't it? Yep cop magnet. Be careful out there LS!


----------



## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> That's not a Yugo for sure!
> 
> @Mike CHS if LS & @CntryBoy777 are late showing up to the get together, you know they're most probably pulled over by a cop (or several cops) for speeding.
> 
> Safe travels @Latestarter @CntryBoy777 and @Rammy !


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yeh.....I told Joe that I'd be watching for him with the shades on....


----------



## Rammy

I kinda dont really believe LS settled on the red car because it felt nice sitting in it. He saw that car and went oh, H### yeah! hahaha.....


----------



## Bruce

Likely! I bet it will be a more comfortable 500 miles each way that a 4 door pickup. And he won't have to take out a second mortgage to pay for fuel.


----------



## goatgurl

alright youall we need to start now collecting bail for @Latestarter and @CntryBoy777.  with a ride like that there is no way they aren't gonna get in trouble.  you guys be safe and @Rammy, heaven help you child.  maybe with Teresa's help you can keep them in sorta a line.  youall have a great time ya hear.   I have to admit that i'm a little jealous but that's a far and snakey trip from here.  safe travels youall


----------



## Latestarter

20 years ago (OK, maybe even 10) I would have chosen the car over the truck for the reasons intimated... SPEED! But I really have turned into an old fuddy duddy... A LOT more cautious driving lately. Want no more accidents or run ins with the law. Before I agreed to the car I told the lady at the desk that I have arthritis issues and wanted to check for ease of ingress/egress as well as comfort before I chose it over a truck. I drive a Chevy truck... I find them exceedingly comfortable to drive and they provide a real safe feeling on the road at speed in traffic. Unlike most little shoe box cars that get squashed in an accident like a bug on a windshield. Oh, I also had the choice of a mini van... That was a quick response... no thanks.

My main concern was the gas mileage. She told me that the MPG on the car was 25 and on the truck 23...   Of course I know that depends on many variables, and since I'll basically be setting the cruise control and enjoying whatever music I can tune in on the way, should get pretty good mileage either way. After getting in and out of the car, I was kinda surprised that I was able to with little issue and the seat was actually pretty comfortable. I don't get to drive a car so that made the decision. It DOES have the power & mobility to get me into or out of trouble should that become necessary... The only issue I have at the moment is all the various buttons/knobs/switches/selections/gauges/computer stuff. Figured out the radio and cruise control. See the gas gauge but can't see any kind of needle or indicator. She said it was full so I'll take her word for it. I hope to figure it out after a few miles of driving. Gotta find the gas fill door release as well. Hoping it's down beside the drivers seat.

It uses these fobs... you have to have it in the car to start it, and you have to hit the brake and push a start/run button... weird for me. Guess I'm really getting


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Some time back I was driving DH's car because he was home for awhile following surgery.  I drove that stupid car (volvo) for 3 or 4 days before I could figure out how to tune the radio, lol.  Setting the adaptive cruise control was an even bigger challenge. Geeze, these new cars are a something!


----------



## goatgurl

my daughter has a new camero that has its share of zoom zoom.  she only lets me drive it when her dh is not around.  I make him nervous for some reason.


----------



## CntryBoy777

If ya get stuck on finding switches and buttons, ya can always Google it and find info on it.....the daughter with the 2 grandsons has a charger...red....a couple of yrs old, so I can always find out from her.....


----------



## RollingAcres

No fancy cars here. We have a 91 Chevy Silverado and a 2001 Toyota Sequoia. No payments.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> It uses these fobs... you have to have it in the car to start it, and you have to hit the brake and push a start/run button... weird for me.


The only reasonable way! No need to ever pull a key out of your pocket/purse. Impossible to lock your keys in the car. Even my garden tractor has no key. No fob either, but it does require me to enter a code before it will start. Don't tell anyone, but I went with the minimum required and it is to push the 2 button once 

Have to do the key thing with the real tractor. Have to stick the key in a slot. Have to turn and hold it until the engine starts then release. Have to twist it to turn the engine off, have to remember to pull the key out of the slot. Weird for me, haven't owned a vehicle with a key since Aug 2004.


----------



## Baymule

What a ride Joe! Enjoy that car, it shore is purdy! 

I dread having to get a new car/truck. Mine is 08 Buick, DH's is 04 F250. New cars have so many new fangled gadgets on them, I don't know how we'd even get in the darn thing, much less start and drive it.

Joe, I tip my hat to you for taking that thing to Tennessee and back!


----------



## Bruce

Better than taking the truck he's trying to keep alive. It sure doesn't need an extra 1,000 miles put on it in a 24 hour period. I am truly amazed at the price of trucks.

Sure hope the visit and lamb he's bringing home was worth the long trip.
Who am I kidding, of COURSE it was!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Well, first steps of the process for my upcoming trip tomorrow have been accomplished.  It's definitely not a yugo...
> View attachment 52141



A Dodge..but what flavor?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Charger or Challenger?   I dunno….


----------



## Mike CHS

I think it was a Charger with a Hemi engine and so far he hasn't gotten any tickets.


----------



## greybeard

Must be a Charger. Challenger is unmistakable with the full width open grill and round headlights.


----------



## Latestarter

goatgurl said:


> she only lets me drive it when her dh is not around. I make him nervous for some reason.



Ummmmm... You make ME nervous, just in general...  But then, I'm a basically nervous kinda guy 



greybeard said:


> A Dodge..but what flavor?



It's a Charger with a 5.7L Hemi. Have to say, It really is a pretty comfy ride and plenty of power when needed. I averaged ~29 MPG on the trip. As for buttons and knobs, I pulled an old folk on the first gas fill up. Searched high and low, back to front and the FOB for some way to open the danged gas hatch. Wasn't anywhere on the console, not on the floor next to the seat, not on the door where all the other controls are located. Finally got so frustrated I called Enterprise to ask them where the damned thing was located. It's down at the very back edge of the bottom driver's door compartment... that trough lookin area, at the back and up under the ledge so you really have to bend over and look to see/find it. After that, got 'er filled up and back on the road. A whole 15 gallons  I could really get used to mileage like that! There is no gas cap... the door contains the sealing apparatus... Guess it wouldn't be a good thing to leave it open and drive off.

So, got to the meet with Fred right at the end of the specified time frame; 12:25pm. Got to Mikes right at the end of the anticipated time period; 3:30pm. Mike and Teresa had a meal planned for 4pm so it worked out perfectly, and what a meal!  Smoked leg of lamb and crock pot lamb with natural juices, slaw, oven "fried" potatoes, fried okra, baked zucchini skins with cheese, a veggie tray with sliced tomatoes, pickles, olives. Gosh, what else... It was absolutely delicious. Thank you @Mike CHS and your wonderful wife Teresa for putting it all together for a meeting and allowing it to take place there. Got to meet @Rammy as she came down to join the fun. Very nice woman! and her little dog, too! Heeee heeheeheehee...  (<---done in the voice of the wicked witch in case you didn't pick up on it)

Mike & Teresa's place is everything his pictures show, and more. Very nice spread, all inclusive! Got to visit the sheep and the LGDs. The description of the work that Mike has provided on his journal, doesn't really do justice to the amount of work he ACTUALLY has done! The change from purchase date to present is astounding, really. 

Anyway, I got home right after 3am as expected, no issues, no altercations, no tickets or LEO encounters. Mel was super excited to see me, I know he was stressed over the change in schedule... he didn't have his dinner delivered at 6 when I feed the goats. I fed him & Elf and put out some feed bowls with alfalfa hay in them for the goats. That should hold them till morning and pellets. They were all inside their night pen, even though the gate was propped open .

No dozing off at the wheel coming home. Not really that tired right now either but when done here, I'm off to bed Got up at 4:30am yesterday for the trip. OK so I did take some pics... Here ya go:







 

I think that set of ribs that was under the one box was supposed to stay Mike... I ended up with 4 racks of ribs    When I stopped for ice on the way out from Mikes, I bought a small styro cooler and transferred some steaks, chops and ground lamb over into it with ice for Fred.  Had I known then that there were additional ribs, I would have shared some of them with Fred as well.  I hope he and Joyce enjoy it as much as I intend to


----------



## greybeard

That fuel door button location must be a Dodge stable wide thing. It's in the same place on wife's Dart.
(hood release wasn't easy to find either..a similar button up under the bottom edge of the dash.)


----------



## Mike CHS

It was a great day and some extra ribs is a small price to pay considering what you went through to get here and back.  We have no shortage of sheep meat


----------



## Rammy

Latestarter said:


> Got to meet @Rammy as she came down to join the fun. Very nice woman! and her little dog, too! Heeee heeheeheehee...  (<---done in the voice of the wicked witch in case you didn't pick up on it)




Ok. Deleted last post because it didnt turn out how I wanted. Thats what you get for trying to do this on a phone.
Anyway, it was very nice meeting everyone. @Latestarter , @CntryBoy777 , @Mike CHS and Teresa, and his son and grandkids were just as nice as I expected. Yeah, I caught LS giving Lucy some lamb meat under the table. She really took to him and stayed by him under the table the whole time we ate. I wonder why? Hahaha.......but its ok. She works those puppy dog eyes to her advantage. Typical female, right? Mike and Teresa definitly put out a great meal. It was very nice meeting everyone and I really want to thank you Mike and Teresa, for having me in your home.  I really enjoyed coming. Thank you for inviting me


----------



## Rammy

Geesh, Even screwed up doing this on the computer. Sometimes I hate technology! Finally got it right after editing it three more times.


----------



## Latestarter

Just to be clear... Lucy had "a-hold" of me under the table (she has very nice eyes) and she exerted this control over me... if I didn't pass over the tiny gristle strip, gosh knows what might have happened   She quite possibly would/could have climbed right up in my lap next.  Tried to be real smooth and secretive about it...  But, as usual... got caught    It was only one tiny little bite


----------



## Rammy

Its fine. She isnt exactly subtle sometimes. ( ok, she aint subtle) and your right, she would of climbed in your lap if she could have. She was being a mooch! She was worn out from the visit and slept all the way home. Its ok you gave her some. I dont think she would have left you alone if you didnt.


----------



## Baymule

Those are some nice pictures Joe, but where are the PEOPLE? @Mike CHS forgot to take any, @CntryBoy777 took some very nice pictures, but only got half a picture of @Rammy. Rammy, no fair, you cheated, hiding behind an arm! You also took a lot of very nice pictures, I guess selfie is out of the question!


----------



## Mike CHS

I didn't forget.  There was just so much of a compressed schedule.


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> I didn't forget.  There was just so much of a compressed schedule.


You just depended on the others to take pictures and they took some very good pictures! But Rammy hid...….


----------



## Rammy

Baymule said:


> You just depended on the others to take pictures and they took some very good pictures! But Rammy hid...….




Yeah, great timing with the arm, huh?  I take terrible selfies. I figured with everyone there, more pics would be taken. See? Thats why YOU should of come. Would have had plenty of pics.  
The only solution is to have another get together and make sure @Baymule comes.  And then @Latestarter needs to upgrade his phone and get one with a camera. 

It was alot of fun and got to meet alot of nice people. Food was great and loved the view and all the animals. Sure looked like paradise to me.


----------



## RollingAcres

I'm glad y'all had a wonderful time! The food sure looked delicious!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Bay it is rather difficult to snap pics while ya are holding and eating that leg of lamb....a piece in each hand....and everybody is on the opposite side of the property...
I just wonder how long it was after I got out that he started getting feeling back in his ears......after the gnawing I put on them.....I do have the tendency to talk a lot....


----------



## RollingAcres




----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> I do have the tendency to talk a lot


That is because you have a lot of interesting things to say!


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I couldn't wait too long to give it a try so early today I took out a package of ram lamb steaks I bought from Mike. There were two steaks in the package and I cooked the larger one with some onions and mushrooms for dinner tonight. A little accent, onion powder and garlic powder fried in lightly salted butter with bacon fat added.

Oh my...  All I can say... 


Spoiler: If you don't want to drool, don't look :)






 
It was delish!


----------



## Mike CHS

Looks like you cooked it perfectly too and I thought you would like this meat.  We cooked one package of your steaks to make sure the taste was right and replaced it with some lamb chops to make sure you got the good stuff.


----------



## Bruce

YUM!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I most certainly can attest for that.....and will tesitfy to it in court, if need be....Great!!.........and certainly do appreciate those that willfully share with others, too!!.....


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Hmmm...thinking I’m only 4 hrs from Nashville and 6 hrs from Gatlinburg. I may need to buy some lamb from @Mike CHS next year! It’d definitely be fun to introduce the kids to eating lamb and would rather get it from someone that I trust!


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Well, I couldn't wait too long to give it a try so early today I took out a package of ram lamb steaks I bought from Mike. There were two steaks in the package and I cooked the larger one with some onions and mushrooms for dinner tonight. A little accent, onion powder and garlic powder fried in lightly salted butter with bacon fat added.
> 
> Oh my...  All I can say...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: If you don't want to drool, don't look :)
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 52252
> It was delish!
> View attachment 52253



Oh my yum!!!


----------



## RollingAcres

@Bruce did you ever get your lamb? I know you didn't get any lamb during the college tour trip.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

He oughta buy some from Mike and have it shipped to him in a styrofoam cooler!!


----------



## RollingAcres

He should! Or he can take a road trip to Mike's and on the way back to VT, drop some off to me.


----------



## Mike CHS

@Latestarter got the last of them this year so I'm all sold out.


----------



## Baymule

Joe that looks yummy! We do love lamb at this house. We have some in the freezer and it looks like we will be out before the next batch (not even born yet) is ready!


----------



## Latestarter

I'll eat the second steak for lunch today. The next thing I want to try is the burger. Have heard so much about how good a lambburger tastes... Can hardly wait to try it and see. When I was in Greece and Crete I had Suvlaki. The type I had was vertically skewered and grilled lamb/goat sliced off in chunks into a soft pita type bread with some veggies and a little sour cream. Makes me wish I had a vertical grill...


----------



## Mike CHS

I threw a bunch of veggies with the leftover leg of lamb that we had Saturday.  I let if get too dried out on the smoker but if you haven't made soup using smoked lamb, it is always awesome tasting.  It is so close to breaking down completely that the soup is ready to eat as soon as the veggies are cooked.

By the way, the meat we had on Saturday was from an 18 month old wether but a lot of times when you tell someone that the meat is mutton they get turned off before they even try it.

If you don't mind, I'll stick the picture here since it is currently a food thread.


----------



## RollingAcres

It's not lunch time yet but now I'm hungry...


----------



## Latestarter

That looks really tasty Mike. I have no issues with much of anything posted to my thread. Food pics are always enjoyed! Thanks again for everything and for the lamb. I've only had the one steak so far, & it was great. I'm sure the rest will be as well. What did you think of the steaks you tried from my lamb? You never said...


----------



## Mike CHS

We really enjoyed it.  When we cooked yours, we also cooked a couple from one of the 18 month old wethers that we processed this summer and we honestly couldn't taste a bit of difference in any and they were all smooth and mild tasting.


----------



## Baymule

Lamburger makes great tacos. I like to make stuffed burgers with chopped onions and feta cheese in the middle. Since I love patty melts (only on rye bread) lamburger and bacon is awesome on patty melts too.


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> I threw a bunch of veggies with the leftover leg of lamb that we had Saturday.  I let if get too dried out on the smoker but if you haven't made soup using smoked lamb, it is always awesome tasting.  It is so close to breaking down completely that the soup is ready to eat as soon as the veggies are cooked.
> 
> By the way, the meat we had on Saturday was from an 18 month old wether but a lot of times when you tell someone that the meat is mutton they get turned off before they even try it.
> 
> If you don't mind, I'll stick the picture here since it is currently a food thread.
> 
> View attachment 52279


That looks soooooo good!


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> @Bruce did you ever get your lamb? I know you didn't get any lamb during the college tour trip.


Actually I did! We stopped at a place called Taste of Egypt in St. John, NB for lunch on the way back. Rack of lamb was on the dinner part of the menu so I figured I was SOL again. But DD asked the waiter if they made it for lunch and he said yes 

And I went to my optometrist in Northampton, MA last Thursday. Across the parking lot is a Moroccan restaurant named Mosaic. I had the Lamb Salad. Salad with 2 lamb chops on top 



Wehner Homestead said:


> He oughta buy some from Mike and have it shipped to him in a styrofoam cooler!!


Heck, found out last night that our friend that moved from here to near Nashville a few years ago is in the state though about 50 miles from here. I'm SURE she would have been willing to tote a cooler full of frozen lamb from Mike 



Latestarter said:


> a little sour cream


For real or was it Tzatziki ? It is kinda like sour cream but WAY better. 



Mike CHS said:


> If you don't mind, I'll stick the picture here since it is currently a food thread.


Have I mentioned that I wouldn't mind living in Mike's workshop and begging for leftovers?


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Actually I did! We stopped at a place called Taste of Egypt in St. John, NB for lunch on the way back. Rack of lamb was on the dinner part of the menu so I figured I was SOL again. But DD asked the waiter if they made it for lunch and he said yes
> 
> And I went to my optometrist in Northampton, MA last Thursday. Across the parking lot is a Moroccan restaurant named Mosaic. I had the Lamb Salad. Salad with 2 lamb chops on top







Bruce said:


> Have I mentioned that I wouldn't mind living in Mike's workshop and begging for leftovers?



Yes you have. I thought you wanted to live there because of all the toys he has in the shop.


----------



## Bruce

Right, the toys and the FOOD!!!


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Right, the toys and the FOOD!!!



I'm sure you're willing to work for Mike in exchange for the room and board


----------



## Bruce

You bet! I could even watch his animals while he goes to visit other BYHers!
Of course DW may not approve of such a plan.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

She should be due to retire soon (shouldn’t she??) Become snowbirds!


----------



## Bruce

HA! 
1) She's only 56 and with her RA we need the job for the medical insurance
2) The only way she would go south in the winter is in a pine box.


----------



## farmerjan

If her RA gets bad enough, she might change her mind about going in a southerly direction for some of the extreme cold weather.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Boy!!.....ya must sure be telling her about the horrible stuff we do and make monsters out of us....if that is how she feels.... ....I can think of more comfortable traveling conditions, than a pine box.....


----------



## Bruce

Bred and born in Vermont, not leaving for NOTHING! She keeps asking how we can live too far north for snow since lately it seems there is more snow in MA than VT.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Boy!!.....ya must sure be telling her about the horrible stuff we do and make monsters out of us....if that is how she feels.... ....I can think of more comfortable traveling conditions, than a pine box.....


You bet I am! 

I'm pretty sure that if she was in a pine box, she wouldn't be feeling any discomfort. One way trip you know. But it would have to be a round trip, she wouldn't want to be buried down there.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Right, the toys and the FOOD!!!


Take your tractor!


----------



## Latestarter

Haven't really progressed much more with the goat bungalow... Been trying to get the hands/wrists & knees/ankles back under control, coupled with the mid 90's and humidity. That being said, I guess over the coming week I'm going to get the opportunity to see how well the piers I have made under the bungalow hold up. Though this forecast ends on Monday, the/a 30%+ forecast carries beyond that. So, we'll see:





The two sores on PB&J's side ended up connecting at the top, forming almost an inverted horseshoe shape. The skin died over both sores and fell off. She is healing and the sores are dry and closing. No fly strike, no maggots, just scabbing. Mel tries to help and keep the area clean and is a really good LGD. She mostly stands still and lets him clean the area for her. Generally when she's eating and has her head in the pellet bowl... No fever, no "off" actions, acts normally in all respects, runs and jumps around like the rest, challenges and butts heads. I'm stumped.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad she is healing well and hope it continues to do so....know ya need the rain...just hope it doesn't set ya back too much, or cause ya much discomfort.....


----------



## Bruce

But you never figured out what those sores were or how they occurred? 

Sorry you are getting the rain that we need. You have outside projects to complete. Hope your body gets fixed up so you can do them.


----------



## Baymule

We sure needed the rain and are grateful for every drop we got. That racheted up the humidity, no breeze, just stand still and get soaked with sweat. Joe, I hope you get to feeling better. But we are supposed to have a rainy weekend, so take some time off.


----------



## Latestarter

My aches and pains improve a bit daily. I need to move to keep from stiffening up, but keep feet legs elevated to keep swelling down. Kinda at odds with each other  Looks like a few days of potential wet weather are about to grace us with their presence. It is almost totally dead dry here right now.  Fred very nicely gifted me some rye grass seed but I don't want to risk putting it down if we're gonna get heavy rains with the associated run off. The soil is so dry, the rain will not soak in initially and all that seed would go to waste... just wash right away.

So I got the last of that bacon cooked up along with hand grated hash browns with chopped onions and deli sliced American cheese, topped with a couple of over easy eggs. Very tasty. Don't know if I mentioned but I picked up a couple more (5) 4-5month old hens. No eggs yet. If they don't start pretty soon, I'll prob be waiting till spring. Lucky me... have to feed and water them all winter with no return...  

I'll try to get a couple of pics of PB&J to show her healing. Normally have my hands (and brain) full when I head out to the goats and never remember the camera. I still have no idea what caused the sores... I don't see a need to bring her to a vet as they seem to be healing on their own, and aside from them, she seems completely normal... 

Was watching the Thursday night football game. Feeling kinda bad for the Browns and their fans. They seem to be a snake bit team. They always seem to make their own obstacles to success. Last I saw they were down 14 - 0 to the Jets. They were picked to win but I suspected the Jets were going to give them a lot more trouble than everyone thought.


----------



## Latestarter

Just looked at the radar and a huge blob of yellow and orange past me by to the west headed NE. green now and dying out. Yeah... sure looking good for some coming wetness.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Was watching the Thursday night football game. Feeling kinda bad for the Browns and their fans. They seem to be a snake bit team. They always seem to make their own obstacles to success. Last I saw they were down 14 - 0 to the Jets. They were picked to win but I suspected the Jets were going to give them a lot more trouble than everyone thought.


Browns won. Tyrod Taylor left with a concussion right before halftime, and they brought Mayfield in as QB . He completed 17 of 23 passes for 201 yards in just over a half of play. Mayfield didn't throw any TD passes but caught one for 2 point conversion on a reverse.   
I guess the rally possum that was in the stands worked.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Don't feel so rushed about the rye grass Joe, there was 1year I didn't get it out til the first part of November and it did fine....also, ya can hold a few pounds of seed back in the bag and have it on hand to toss out in spots where it gets washed here to there. I always hold some for after it warms up in Feb just in case and to get it growing before the Spring rains start in the wash areas to hold the ground.....I think your goats and you will like it....


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> So I got the last of that bacon cooked up along with hand grated hash browns with chopped onions and deli sliced American cheese, topped with a couple of over easy eggs. Very tasty. Don't know if I mentioned but I picked up a couple more (5) 4-5month old hens. No eggs yet. If they don't start pretty soon, I'll prob be waiting till spring. Lucky me... have to feed and water them all winter with no return...



Sounded delicious except there's no pics to show us, so like @Baymule would say "no pics=no proof. No proof=did not happen". 
What breed hens did you get?



Latestarter said:


> My aches and pains improve a bit daily.


Good to hear it improves a bit daily.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Sounded delicious except there's no pics to show us, so like @Baymule would say "no pics=no proof. No proof=did not happen".


Well then there were no calories involved!!


----------



## Latestarter

I like the no calories thought/idea... if only it were so! It was such a "basic" meal, I didn't really think pics were warranted...   I got 2 BOs and 3 RIRs. Not sure of their exact ages. Advertised as 3-4 months old when I bought them, about a month ago... They are almost full sized, but still very thin/light, not "filled out" yet. They don't eat very much, still on the original 50# bag of feed, maybe 1/2 gone. I use a 3 gallon waterer, so that lasts about a week at a time. So really not all that much work. They are strictly inside birds, housed in my big out bldg, so no run/fencing and danger/threat from predation. I check them 2-3 times a day and they're just being chickens.

Watched the 2nd 1/2 of the Browns game. Was on here doing that post when Taylor got concussed and removed. Shame it took an injury to force Hue Jackson to get his a$$ out of his own way and get Mayfield in the game. What a difference in play between the 1st and 2nd half... like 2 different teams. I don't see any way he can put Mayfield "back in the box" he's been trying to keep him in after that performance. If he or Dorsey try, I think the fans will tar and feather them both and ride them out of town. Really happy for the Browns and their fans. They've waited for a win (and a decent team) for a long time! I think they now have both.

Next Thursday night game ought to be really good as well... Vikings vs Rams... I believe it to be a NFC Champ game preview. They are the #1 and #2 NFC teams. Actually, they could be the NFL's #1 and #2 teams...


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> I picked up a couple more (5) 4-5month old hens. No eggs yet. If they don't start pretty soon, I'll prob be waiting till spring. Lucky me... have to feed and water them all winter with no return...



If heavy breed, you know 6 mos is usual for eggs.  Last time I bought barred rock chicks they were July hatch.   First eggs Jan 1.   And they laid pretty good in winter!     Many of mine are molting now -- what a site!! -- and some are not laying, some occasional.  So you know the drill, eggs down feed still up.  It appears (from the eggs) that the lighter breeds are laying better thru molt than the heavies.  But, may be the stage they are in.  Hey with 60, hard to know for sure.   It's still pretty sure to tell by color of legs, combs, etc.   

And no, you had not shared new hen news!


----------



## Mini Horses

BO & RIR -- nice!   My couple OLD BOs still lay some in 4th year. Picked up a small flock of RIRs a couple months ago.  There were yr old  adults and 4 or 5 month old chicks, 1 roo.  Hope to set some eggs this Spring -- for layers & meat (poor boys!).  These are the old style, dark, dark reds. 
Most of my others are now BYM...healthy, good foragers.  Lot of Marans & Ameraucana, little leghorn thrown in.  NO white eggs.  LOL


----------



## Latestarter

Some day I'd like to get an actual hen house built. Plan on doing a "woods style" coop. Since it was really developed for the north east and cold weather, I'll make a few mods as recommended and it will face a different direction than those up north, but I really like the design and the way it works for ventilation. There's some real good info and examples over on BYC.


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> "woods style" coop



What "wood style" coop? Something like this?


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## Mike CHS

Our hens are laying pretty steady right now but Teresa added a light on a timer so they are still getting 12-13 hours of good light.  The light was actually put in to draw them in the hut since they were wanting to nest all over the place before the light was put in.


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## Bruce

LS has been keeping his girls hidden, out of your sight! If they are now 4-5 months old, they are close in age to mine. They were hatched late April and will be 22 weeks on Monday. Only one has started laying, one of the Barred Rocks. I expect mine to get with the program soon and I think yours will also.


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## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> What "wood style" coop? Something like this?
> View attachment 52361


Oh HECK no. That is a small wood coop, LS is talking about a Woods style coop. Named after the guy that created them. Look here for a BYC member's version https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/woods-style-house-in-the-winter.445004/

The roosts are way in the back. There is ONLY wire over the front windows. The fact that there is no way for wind to blow through the coop when the upper windows and the side window and door are closed means no draft over the birds even though there is a huge area for air exchange up front. 

If I were to build a freestanding coop, it would either be the cheap and easy hoop coop or a Woods style.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Oh HECK no. That is a small wood coop, LS is talking about a Woods style coop. Named after the guy that created them. Look here for a BYC member's version https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/woods-style-house-in-the-winter.445004/



Ohhhh ok!


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> LS has been keeping his girls hidden, out of your sight!



Not even a picture!!!!   He knows better.   

Speaking of pictures -- haven't seen any of Mel or Elf of late.  Did they get any of that delish lamb steak?


----------



## goatgurl

glad you got you some chickens, I love just having them around, they should start laying in the next month or two and lay all winter.  I have BO and RIR along with a few other breeds.  love a mixed flock.  str1 has a feeder that the chickens have to stand on to open it up to eat, she and her chickens love it.  no mice or birds getting in and wasting food
  since you like the lamb so much are we gonna see a sheep or two pop up on your farm?  they are much easier to take care of than the goats.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Watched the 2nd 1/2 of the Browns game. Was on here doing that post when Taylor got concussed and removed. Shame it took an injury to force Hue Jackson to get his a$$ out of his own way and get Mayfield in the game. What a difference in play between the 1st and 2nd half... like 2 different teams. I don't see any way he can put Mayfield "back in the box" he's been trying to keep him in after that performance. If he or Dorsey try, I think the fans will tar and feather them both and ride them out of town. Really happy for the Browns and their fans. They've waited for a win (and a decent team) for a long time! I think they now have both.


Friday's question:
Jets smother the Lions 48-17.A week later, Jets lose to the Browns, Mayfield and a possum.
What does that say about the Lions,........?


----------



## Latestarter

<--- with all due respect, I wouldn't waste my money on a prefab coop with one exception... a full sized, walk in, Amish built coop might be OK. Exactly what Bruce said and the link he provided is right on as well and where I first learned of the Wood's style coop. Dr. Woods developed/perfected it back in the 1920s.

Here's another link to give a journal type presentation: https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/ooodalolly-at-dunrovin-station.67998/

Speaking of coops... for those who wish to see, my 5 new hens:


 

And here's a recent (like 15 minutes old) pic of the wound on PB&J's side:


----------



## greybeard

You getting much of this? :
(current radar)
It started here about 4am. Heavy rains interrupted by periods of drizzle. 
N. Central Texas and Oklahoma look to be getting pretty wet.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm still surprised there wasn't any infection in a wound that bad.  It seems to be drying up well or at least the picture looks like it.


----------



## Mini Horses

Well, you & Mel are doing a fine job with PB&Js wound. 
The hens are lovely ladies!!

Guess we hit a nerve -- or guilt -- with pictures.  
Little kick helps....


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> with all due respect, I wouldn't waste my money on a prefab coop with one exception... a full sized, walk in, Amish built coop might be OK. Exactly what Bruce said and the link he provided is right on as well and where I first learned of the Wood's style coop. Dr. Woods developed/perfected it back in the 1920s.



I didn't know before what you meant by the "wood style" coop. Now that I know, you're right, I wouldn't waste money on those prefab one either. The Wood's style coop are WAY better!

Your ladies, I mean hens are very nice looking.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> You getting much of this? :


Looks way north of LS.

Joe, I think you need some medicinal leeches for poor PB&J's wound!

Pullets look good, combs still small so probably another month, maybe two.


----------



## Latestarter

I just had time to get the goats their pellets before it started sprinkling here. There are 10 goats in the girl's pen and only one, the meat cross April, is visible. All the rest have crawled under the plywood decking of the floor of their "to be" home. Maybe I don't have to build the whole danged thing after all... But then I'll play hell trying to climb under with them to milk or assist with birthing   Guess I'll proceed as planned.

Went out earlier and man was it humid, not too hot but it felt like it was, but no real showers until this set. Have heard thunder all around for past several hours, but the T-storms have missed me. Anyway, I cut them down a gum tree earlier as there isn't a whole lot left for them to eat in the pasture. There's still bermuda grass but they eat that absolutely last. I've been giving them a flake or two of hay every evening after their pellets, but not yet tonight cause of the rain. I'll wait for a break and bring them some. Figure that gives them something to ruminate overnight.

I have decided that I much prefer the mixed hay; alfalfa and orchard grass. There is so much less waste with it. The boys (3) finished their bale of it with just a scattering of debris on the ground around the feeder. They've been working on a pure alfalfa bale now for several days and there's a pile on the ground all around the feeder. I break the flakes up into the girl's pellet bowls/buckets to give it to them and with the mix, there were a few stems left scattered around. With the alfalfa, I have a pile of leaf flake left in the bowls as well as a lot of waste all around them. Not to mention them pushing it all out of the bowls with their noses to get the choicest bits. I have to keep scratching it up and putting it back in their bowls. Yesssss I have to stand there and be a feed monitor to keep Bang, Dot and CB from bullying everyone else away from feed bowls so they can have it all to themselves. 

I tried spreading the bowls out outside the fence, so they had to put their heads through to eat. Didn't work out... they'd only let one each head in a bowl and the ones left out would rear back and ram the sides of whatever one had their head through the fence to get them to pull out so they could stick their heads through.   Stupid goats! Aside from giving each their own feed station, I'm running out of ideas. Best idea might be to sell the goats and get sheep...


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> Joe, I think you need some medicinal leeches for poor PB&J's wound!



Hmmmm...since I don't see any ooze, looks drying and clean, I'd leave it and watch 2-3X a day before I did much else.  No flies, no pus (obvious), no swelling...appears to be healing well.  I believe Mel is keeping it cleaned off nicely.  Good boy!

The dead tissue will sluff off, it's supposed to.  Clean new tissue growing below.  Eventually the hair will also grow.  Most often it does.  If not, it will be light scar tissue to cover.  So it is.   These things take time but, so far I feel it's looking good.

ETA:  we were postng at same time.   You could tie them each to their feed bowls.     You better do the sides to the shed because I do NOT see you crawling under with any hope of getting out.   I had to milk one of my does tonight as her doeling has decided to wean herself.  Brat needed relief, so I go a bucket with her milk ration, let her out of the herd pasture and she ran right to the feed (no surprise!) where she stood nicely while I pulled 1/2 gal out.   NICE.  Took it to the freezer while she finished her feed, then took her back to the pasture & shed.   Probably will need to milk other two tomorrow as the kids are slowing milk in favor of more forage.  Good girls!   May keep Brat going for a couple of months, then dry her off as bred.  Haven't gotten to that breeding ritual yet -- soon!


----------



## Mike CHS

Even with sheep you wind up with the bullies hogging the bowls if you use a bowl. Did you see the PVC troughs I use in the shop shelter?  They are long enough that several sheep can feed at the same time so they all get some.  Might not work with goats though.  I have quite a few of them and use enough that they don't get crowded out.  There are 13 ewe lambs in there and I use 3 of the 4' troughs.


----------



## Latestarter

Right now I'm using 3 large buckets for the adults and 3 medium buckets for the "kids"... More than adequate room in the lrg for 2-3 to eat simultaneously and not even touch faces if they don't want. 5 adults, so 2 to a bucket and one solo. same with the kids, 5 of them, so 2 to a bucket and one solo. Since PB&J is wounded right now, I tend to try and let her be the solo. Normally Bang and April take one bucket, Dot and CC take one, and CB moves from the single to share with bang and April then moves to the single, and back and forth for those two. Once one bucket is empty (normally bangs w/April) they move over and crowd in with CB. I try to keep those 3 off Dot and CC as they are the slowest eaters and down the herd queen chain... I also keep all the adults away from the kid's bowls so they get their share, I also try to pour the "proper" amount into each bowl, knowing who's gonna go to what bowl.

Have a 1/2 chicken and Au Gratin taters in the oven and the timer is calling to me.   Back later!


----------



## Latestarter

OK... feeling like a photog today... here's dinner, eating it here now between typing:


----------



## Mike CHS

Looks like it ought to satisfy the hunger.  I bet Mel gets a bit also.


----------



## RollingAcres

Your dinner looks good!
I was thinking "wow it's 9.15pm he's just now eating dinner?" Then i remembered that you're in central time zone .


----------



## Latestarter

Way too much for one meal... Having the leg and ~1/3 of the potatoes for dinner. Will save scraps and split them between Mel and Elf after I finish the breast, probably tomorrow. Also took out a T bone to thaw for some time over the next day or two. Mel is lying here next to me snoring lightly right now. Wasn't sure what was coming rain wise and there was thunder, so let him in when I came in after pellets for the goats. He'll be going back out with me here directly when I go get them their alfalfa. Elf is outside on the back deck. He prefers to be outside but has lately taken to scratching at the back door to come in. He goes in and out over the course of a day unless I get occupied and just leave him out. Unless it's pouring, and even then mostly, no dogs in the house if I'm not home.

I'm generally up late and don't go to bed till after midnight. That has changed a bit lately due to fighting the aches and pains... Have found myself going in and laying down much earlier, sometimes as early as 9-9:30. But I do normally eat after all the chores are done, so after full dark, which right now is after ~ 8pm...

Oh, forgot, ETA:


----------



## Bruce

Full dark here has become ~7 PM


----------



## Baymule

It started raining last night and all morning. We got 2 1/4" of rain. It's drizzling now.


----------



## Mike CHS

We finally started getting some a couple of hours ago.  No griping here since we needed it.


----------



## farmerjan

It's raining here ....AGAIN.....we were supposed to have 3 straight days of sun after Florence rains left.  Sunny late Tuesday aft, sun Wed, SHOWERS wed night, sun & clouds Thursday, ... showers & 2 tenths Thursday night....then mostly sun with some clouds friday...90 & 91 and humid those three days.  Today some sun then clouds and now raining this eve..... I will gladly send it to someone who needs it, just send me your address...


----------



## greybeard

An inch here today, probably the same yesterday. More on tap for tomorrow.
With the exception of last years post flood weeks, this is the greenest I've seen it in mid September in a long long time and I find myself understocked

 .


----------



## Latestarter

Dallas set a new Sept record for rainfall and the month isn't over. Still misting/drizzling here, haven't looked at how much I got but from dumping out food bowls, I'd guess about an inch. There's another small cell/storm moving my way from the south right now, but the center is to the west of me. Not sure if I'll see anything out of that. The wind is whipping pretty good here, and it has both dogs spooked. Elf starts barking which lights off Mel, or vice versa... I just walked the inside of the pasture fencing with Mel to reassure him. Course if there were the perfect night for a coyote attack, tonight would probably be it.  When the dogs bark, it makes the goats edgy... nobody gets any rest.


----------



## Latestarter

Had the window above my head open about 3-4" last night for fresh air and to listen to the rain. Online says it's 67° here right now and it feels like it may be. I still have the AC on however because of the dampness. It hasn't kicked on in quite a while though, so good for the electric bill. Didn't hear any rain coming down when I got out of bed, but by the time I was ready to go do animal chores, it was raining again   The goats are all under the decking out back. One of them must have heard me when I went out the back door as it started yelling for me. They know it's breakfast time. Thinking pellets followed by a flake of alfalfa since they're no going to want to graze/browse in this.

Checked the rain gauge and it was steady at 3". After my post last night, it started coming down in serious fashion. It rained really hard for several hours. Looks like the heaviest stuff is east on me now, running N/S and moving NE, so in an hour or two it should start clearing out some... Unless there's a lot more moisture back behind to come up this way.





Well, sprinkles, so I guess I better go get wet and feed the goats.


----------



## Devonviolet

I just checked the rain gauge.  We have a whopping five inches! 
Yesterday it was at 3”. So, we got another 2” overnight.  Geez!  It’s like a mud swamp out there!

We were all ready to load the truck and go to Farmer’s Market yesterday morning (at 5:45 AM), but awoke to torrential down pour. I had four special orders, that I had put together, and had promised the people we would be there, but I looked at the NOAA weather map, and and after agonizing over it, we decided to stay home.  As it was, we would have had to load the truck and set up, at the market, in steady downpour.  And then, it would have rained all morning. As hard as it rained, I’m fairly certain those customers stayed home anyway.  What they ordered will be fine until next Saturday, when it’s supposed to be sunny and in the 70’s.   Next time, I’m getting phone numbers, when people place special orders.


----------



## Latestarter

getting contact info - really essential! Sorry you missed out on the market... lost income for sure and hopefully not spoiled product(s)... Nice to hear from you as I know you're super busy and don't get on here like you used to. Hope you and DH are doing well!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

@Devonviolet I had the thought that you need some type of basic form for special orders already printed up. Place for name, what’s ordered and any specifics, phone number, and a place to mark if they paid in advance....


----------



## Devonviolet

Yes, lost income, indeed!  But, from past rainy days, attendance was likely really low, so income would have been low anyway.

We're waiting for church to start. It's pouring again. DH torgot to empty the most acurate rain gauge. So it will likely overflow.

Yes, we are super busy these days. Sometimes I go several days before I even have time to think about checking BYH.  Farmers market is finished the end if Oct.


----------



## Latestarter

you have a really strong finish DV... You might want to see if any of your regular customers want to continue to buy from you AFTER the market closes for the year... You know, give them something that they can contact you direct for products they want. Get their Email addresses so you can send them mail/flyers with new product offerings and such once a month. Just any way you can to generate contact with potential customers through the winter when no farmer's market to help you sell. Ask for customer referrals as well! Tell them to please forward your Email messages to friends and family who might benefit from the products as well.


----------



## Baymule

Our total rainfall so far is 3" and we are delighted. DH has been saying this is going to be a wet and cold winter. I am working (slowly) toward better organizing so I can do a better job of taking care of all the poultry this winter. Hmmm……. y'all know how that goes! Haha.

@Devonviolet and her sweet husband have a nice set up for Farmer's Market. We visited them one morning.  Her baked items are to die for! The town closes off that street for the vendors, plus they shut down a section of Hwy 11 so people can park and walk across to the market. It is well organized and in the old section of town.  I am glad that DV is getting such a good response to all her and DH's hard work. but i'll be a little glad when it is over.....she doesn't even have time for our phone chats any more...….


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> You know, give them something that they can contact you direct for products they want.


I'm sure they would be happy to oblige. I buy a pound of ground beef each week from a couple at the market. She's 75, he might be older. No idea how they have so much energy but she says he does most of the outside work. All sorts of veggies, cider, maple, oil and vinager salad dressing, etc. After the market ends next month I'll be heading over to their place to pick up 30 pounds of ground beef to put in our little 5 cu ft chest freezer. Makes no sense to me to have them bring 30# to the market and bring to their "stand" so I can then carry it to my car wherever I may be able to park. Did the same last year but only 15# because I had also bought 15# from another vendor. They weren't there this year which is  Nice younger couple with 2 girls and 2 boys about 7 - 13.


----------



## Devonviolet

Well, we got another inch of rain while we were in church. For a whopping total of 6 inches of rain in the past 2 days!

I like your ideas for order forms and sending out a winter news letter with special sales.  If the customer picks it up at our farm, I can sell my cheese and fermented foods, like homemade sauerkraut, Kombucha and Kefir.

I will have at least one outlet for my personal care products. Here are just a few of them on my table at farmer's market.







The lady who owns the local herb shop/health food store, has asked me to sell my personal care products, and chicken eggs in her store once farmers market finishes.   I'm also planning, to visit the health food store, in Sulphur Springs, to see if they want to sell ny products there, as well.  

In addition to my news letter, I will also be able to sell through our farmer's market weekly sale. The sale's flier comes out on Monday early (with items being offered that week), and orders have to be placed by late Tuesday. I think they are then picked up on Thursday.



Baymule said:


> I am glad that DV is getting such a good response to all her and DH's hard work. but i'll be a little glad when it is over.....she doesn't even have time for our phone chats any more...….


I KNOW!  I sure do miss our chats.  It will be nice when I have time to chat again.


----------



## Bruce

Fabulous DV!!


----------



## Latestarter

Gosh DV... you ought to cut and paste that post to your journal... just for posterity!


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## Latestarter

Weird happening here this morning... Started raining again about 2:30 and had my window open above my head and heard it, so I went and let Mel in. Then, about 4:30am Mel lights off like crazy... I get out of bed and as I open my bedroom door, I see light in the house that shouldn't be there... I sleep au natural so I peek out the door and there's a PU truck outside with its headlights pointing in through the dining room window through the carport. I slide on some pants, tell Mel he's a good boy, and head out through the house to the kitchen door to see what the heck is going on. By the time I'm dressed and moving, the truck is now crawling back up the driveway, so I turn on the outside car port lights and watch for 10-15 seconds. 

It keeps crawling slowly so I turn the lights back off and head to my master bath to pee. I turn on the bathroom light and look out the window and the truck has come to a stop up near the big oak tree in the front pasture. So I finish, turn off the light and head back out to the kitchen, but this time I grab my 9mm, and unholster it and put it in my front pocket, slip on my shoes, and head out the carport door (no lights). The truck is gone, but I start walking up the driveway just in case. After a bit, I hear the truck's engine and it pulls into my front neighbor's driveway and just sits there revving the engine and it beeped it's horn once. Then it peeled out in the neighbor's drive, drove over his lawn and left headed further down the street. The neighbor isn't home right now. The whole episode was like 10-15 minutes, maybe 20.

No idea what that was all about... Since the truck moved around in the neighbor's drive a couple of times also, directing its lights inside the house, he/she/they were either casing the place or thought they were where they were supposed to be picking someone up... Whatever it was, it had me feeling decidedly uncomfortable. Glad I had Mel inside and I'm sure they had to have heard him going off. Glad I didn't have to use the 9mm as well.


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## RollingAcres

Idk what's weirder, reading about your weird happening or reading about you sharing a little TMI about your "sleeping habit"...

Glad you didn't have to use your 9mm. Definitely have to be on the look out for the next few days to see if that truck comes back. Hopefully whoever it was, was just in the wrong place, street, house...


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## greybeard

4:30am....Some irate someone looking for a wife, boyfriend/girlfriend........or their teenage daughter....and pulled into the wrong drive?


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## Bruce

Does sound weird. Hope it doesn't happen again. Might be worth taking the 9mm and a camera out with you if it does. Get a picture of the truck's plate (assuming TX has front plate requirements).


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## Devonviolet

YIKES!     THAT'S scary!  Hopefully whoever it was, saw your lights go on.   Glad Mel was there to alert you!

I know it's after the fact. But it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to call the Sherrif's Department & let them know the truck was going down peoples driveways & lighting up houses.  Who knows? There may be breakins that you aren't aware of & it might help catch the guys.


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## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> I'm sure you're willing to work for Mike in exchange for the room and board




And lamb stew.


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## Devonviolet

RollingAcres said:


> Glad you didn't have to use your 9mm. Definitely have to be on the look out for the next few days to see if that truck comes back. Hopefully whoever it was, was just in the wrong place, street, house...


I’m thinkin’ maybe a driveway cam’ with high enough definition, to read license plates (and YES, front plates _are_ required in TX) might be in order. A nice bright motion sensor light (about eye level for the driver), might also do a lot towards encouraging nosey nare-do-wells, to move on, before they can cause any trouble for both you AND him!!!


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## RollingAcres

X2!


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## Mini Horses

Weird?  yes.  Only time since you've lived there?   Then I might report to police but, not get pants in a knot unless a repeat.

Stuff happens.


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## Rammy

Yeah! Up to page 400! Only 145 pages to go.


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## Devonviolet

Rammy said:


> Yeah! Up to page 400! Only 145 pages to go.


  

Yeah, Latestarter is rather prolific isn’t he???     Well, he also does seem to instigate people to “hijack” his journal, on occasion.


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## Baymule

Probably meth heads looking the place over. Theft is common in rural areas, nobody messes with us, place completely fenced with big barky dogs. LOL I would have gotten up, but not turned on any lights just to see what they were up to.


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## farmerjan

A gate at the end of the driveway would stop the random drive in.... and I agree that a game cam would be a big help.  I would also put out one of those signs that you see that say protected by a .357 or better yet, something that says that it is sighted for a (whatever caliber) rifle at the gate post....Uninvited visitors will be shot.


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## Latestarter

Rammy said:


> And lamb stew.


 Funny you should mention lamb... I took out a brick (or chub if you prefer) of the lamb burger earlier today. Since I wasn't sure what to expect, I did a stir fry with some mixed w/onions and mushrooms (again - what can I say... I like meat that way). Wasn't sure what the fat content would be so needed to cook some to find out. Couldn't do it by itself, so shredded some hash browns and cooked a couple of eggs and viola'
Yes, there's a slice of deli American cheese on top of the hash browns as well. I used a little bacon grease and butter. @CntryBoy777 when you use yours, it really doesn't need any additional fat. There's enough in the burger to cook with.




Delish!


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## RollingAcres

Looks delicious


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## Latestarter

First time the truck down the drive has happened. I've had daytime bible thumpers on occasion, and folks looking for someplace/thing/one else, but always during broad daylight and I spoke with them. I turned the outside light on to let them know that there was someone here, and awake, and watching them. Down here in TX, they (smart criminals anyway) would HAVE to assume that I was armed and prepared, especially out here in the country. I'm sure the dogs would have deterred them as well. Mel has a rather deep serious bark. Sight unseen, or even seen... I'd think twice.


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## Mike CHS

It has plenty of fat for cooking the way you did but if you are going to grill them you need a smooth surface to keep them from falling apart and through the grill or add some egg and/or some bread crumbs.  I use oats when I'm making a meat loaf.  

Tony doesn't add much fat but tries to make sure there is enough without being real greasy.


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## frustratedearthmother

Gotta say that looks great!


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## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> A gate at the end of the driveway would stop the random drive in.... and I agree that a game cam would be a big help.  I would also put out one of those signs that you see that say protected by a .357 or better yet, something that says that it is sighted for a (whatever caliber) rifle at the gate post....Uninvited visitors will be shot.


If you advertise that you have a gun, thieves will break in to steal your guns.  If you ain't home, you ain't there to_ shoot_ that 357!  Keep a low profile...…….


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## Bruce

Devonviolet said:


> A nice bright motion sensor light (about eye level for the driver), might also do a lot towards encouraging nosey nare-do-wells, to move on, before they can cause any trouble for both you AND him!!!


Except poor Latestarter would blind himself every time he came home at night.


Rammy said:


> Yeah! Up to page 400! Only 145 pages to go.


It takes a special tenacity! And heck, it is only 1,450 posts


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## greybeard

It's happened here a couple times at night. The dogs let me know they're coming up the powerline road. I 'darken ship' immediately.  The object, to be able to see them and they not see you except for the tac light or laser on your rifle barrel. I've never really found much use for a pistola.

Turning all lights off immediately does the same thing as turning all the lights on...lets miscreants know someone is there and awake/alert.. they know someone is approaching, and the miscreants know they are now more visible than the homeowner. Disadvantage=miscreant.


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> If you advertise that you have a gun, thieves will break in to steal your guns.  If you ain't home, you ain't there to_ shoot_ that 357!  Keep a low profile...…….


Yeah, didn't think of that...but saying it is ranged for say a 12 gauge shotgun might make someone think twice.  I did see a sign once that said "if the owner with the gun doesn't get you first, the dog will make sure there is little left to for the police to clean up."  Or something to that effect.....I like that....


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## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> Except poor Latestarter would blind himself every time he came home at night.


Well, since he knows it's there, he knows to put the sun visor down.


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## CntryBoy777

Thanks for the info Joe, but we have already fixed a chub of that.....I didn't post pics, because I'm not much on "presentation" and what was intended to be tacos turned into burritos.....they were wonderful and very delicious!!........Joyce drained the fat and used most of it as a topping for a dish of Gabbie's food....she Loves it and she really Loves the meat.....in fact, she is still begging for some of the chops. Joyce is still talking about how Good it is......


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## Rammy

If you have wifi I would look into those kind of cameras @Mike CHS has at his house. They are tiny, run on batteries, and you can hide them anywhere. Would be great to catch anyone who decides to come strolling up your driveway in the wee hours of the night. Floodlights might be a good deterent also. I know I love my cameras and motion lights.


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## Latestarter

Mike has cameras at his place   I didn't even notice!   We've already heard about your go-round with cameras and that crazy lout behind you. I prefer to play the ostrich card and bury my head in the sand and repeatedly say "awwww that'll never happen to me here..." Of course I realize it very well could happen here just as easily as anywhere else. I am not overly worried or concerned. 

Ended up starting another 5 day course of steroids this morning.   Was hoping I could avoid it/put it off and hoped the pain would abate... Rain has passed and though it's still awfully cloudy, there is some sun and it's trying to dry out despite the humidity. I need to be able to function to get that danged goat shed (mansion) built. I'm now beginning to wish I'd just sunk some 4 bys at corners and built a three sided, dirt floor, run in shack. In hind sight, that would have made more sense since I still hope/intend to get an area leveled and get a real barn bldg built at some point. 

Glad to hear Fred. Great that you and Joyce as well as Gabbie like it


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## Mike CHS

We originally installed cameras because we were only here for a few days a month and had several thousand dollars worth of material in the place not to mention equipment all over the place.  We have cameras all over the place and intentionally placed a few of them in high visibility spots since we want people to know they are there.  We feel comfortable at our place but every little town has it's own breed of dopers who are always looking for an easy hit. We even have cameras in the living room in the house and multiples in the shop.  It's overkill probably but we had so many because we had two complete systems for three years.

I hope your next round of steroids gets you up and about.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I'm now beginning to wish I'd just sunk some 4 bys at corners and built a three sided, dirt floor, run in shack. In hind sight, that would have made more sense since I still hope/intend to get an area leveled and get a real barn bldg built at some point.



You still can, tho it will now have to be a 3 sided barn with planked floor and will require more than just a post at each corner. Probably take one at each corner and 2 evenly spaced along each of the long sides. Maybe a 4x4 middle of each of the short sides. Pole barn style.


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## Rammy

Yeah, LS, the cameras were all over.  Kind of hear that song, " I always feel like somebody is watching me." I am looking into getting a few to put out at the barn since they are smaller than my Blink and can hide them a little easier. Looking into those solar motion detectors, too. Yeah, I have already put alot of money into a security system because of that nutjob next door, but I do love the new cameras.  They are kind of like potatoe chips, you cant stop at just one, or four, or 8, or..................


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## CntryBoy777

I've been laying low the past few days, cause this weather and my aches haven't been kind, either.....hope ya can gain relief from yours and @greybeard may have a good idea there for ya, especially if it can be added to and increased over time....when ability and $$ and time become available....


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## Latestarter

Nah... started it now so will finish it as originally designed. It was basically going to be "open" on the one side anyway. It's 24' long and will have a 16' wall centered so 4' openings at either end. The biggest issue and PITA is the floor system.   and that's basically already done, aside from the added support I need to add.


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> and they not see you except for the tac light or laser on your rifle barrel.


And when they see that they can think "Am I feeling lucky tonight?"


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## Latestarter

Tonight's dinner: Lamburger Helper... Had really lost my taste for the stuff, but had like 6 boxes in the pantry so decided to use one and give it a try. Recommend use by date was I believe Nov 2016. It's actually good. I doctored it a bit with added pasta, seasonings, parsley, onions, shrooms, etc.  I made sure to drain the grease this time   Was supposed to be cheeseburger deluxe.  Now I won't feel bad about using the other 5 left. I could donate them to a food drive some place, I mean they are perfectly fine, but the use by date would make the donation place discard them. Too bad really... I'll bet hungry folks would be very happy to have them for use.


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## RollingAcres

Never had that hamburger helper stuff.
Glad you were able to "gourmet" it up a bit.


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## goatgurl

last time I had hamburger helper I was pregnant with dd.  made the stroganoff version, ate it, threw it up and haven't made it since.   just looking at the box just makes my mouth sweat.   btw dd is 46 years old now.  on the other hand your lamb and eggs looked really good.
hope you nite time visitors don't return.  good mel.   stay locked, loaded and safe.


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## Latestarter

When the kids were, well, kids, hamburger helper was a fast, filling, semi/mostly-nutritious meal that could be thrown together very fast and easy. It was also very easy to "extend" it by adding additional moisture, pasta and meat, so there would be leftovers for me to eat the next day. I mean really... it comes in a box but it's pasta, a seasoning packet and you add water, milk, butter, meat and cook it. Nothing fancy/shmancy about it. No idea why it might have made you sick GG... I think they've changed the seasonings some over the years as it doesn't taste the same to me as it used to. But that could be my tastes changing as well. I've always doctored stuff like that up by adding to it. Makes it a little more like "home made". Making it with the lamb it tasted very similar to what I recall from years ago when I really liked it. I'm OK with it   It's not grilled rib eye steak, but as they used to say in the Navy... it will make a turd.

My last wife refused to eat the Betty Crocker Au Gratin potatoes from a box. Said it was all artificial...  Freeze dried real potatoes, & again, a powdered cheese/seasoning packet. You add boiling water to reconstitute the spuds, milk & butter to reconstitute the cheese, a little salt & pepper & bake. What's artificial? 

The steroids have helped immensely in just the first day. I can now use both hands and wrists. Still a bit of pain to the touch but working. I have a swollen right calf that feels like it has an ongoing cramp in the muscle. Been massaging it and elevating it on pillows with an ice pack under it. I also have a compression sock on that leg. Hopefully it will be better by tomorrow. 

Back to goat mansion construction tomorrow. Supposed to be ~79° tomorrow with 2 days in the mid-upper 70s!   Night temps in the low 60s! That's gonna be like heaven! Can turn off the AC and open the house as long as it stays dry. Poss bit of rain tomorrow.


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## greybeard

Nothing wrong with HH. Like lots of food, It's not as good as it used to be thanks to all the mambypamby, whinnybutt wah! wah! wah!  health nuts running around nowadays. "_It may taste like shredded cardboard and smell like powered feces, but it's now SO good for you!_


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## Mini Horses

Glad the steroids are helping!   It's about being able to function, even on meds.   Maybe you need to take them sooner when it recurs -- we know it will.

HH yep -- nothing in there that would cause an issue with dates.  But manufacturers are required to put them on it.  Heck, cereal has couple years on the box.  

  Night temps in the low 60s! That's gonna be like heaven! Can turn off the AC and open the house as long as it stays dry. Poss bit of rain tomorrow.

Getting similar temps here.  After hottest Sept in something like 90 yrs, it's welcome....we had wettest jun/jul, also.   Our year for records?   Now I am a little concerned about temps & snow for winter if we are on a roll here.


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## RollingAcres

For box stuff I like those BC potatoes Au Gratin and Zatarian rice mixes.

Glad those steroids helped with relieved some of your pain.

Yay on the cooler weather! It's been in the low 50's here at night. Yesterday was colder and rainy.


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## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> . "_It may taste like shredded cardboard and smell like powered feces, but it's now SO good for you!_



_Your heart will thank you. Your liver will thank you. You body will thank you. You will live a very, very long life!_


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## CntryBoy777

As long as we have the ingredients, I can make stroganoff from scratch as fast as HH and it tastes soo much better. When we first got together, Joyce had never had stroganoff from scratch and had to fix 2 bxs for her and the girls.....they were unsure about trying it, because it was different....once they did they never went back to the box. You can also add meat to veveeta and shells for a real cheesy version of HH....I've used ham, hamburger, and tuna for a quick and easy meal in veveeta and shells.....


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## RollingAcres

I use the jar gravy to make stroganoff. In fact I just made that for dinner last night. I had some leftover steak. I rendered some bacon, drained some of that grease out, added in chopped onions, chopped green peppers, garlic, schrooms. Poured in the gravy, steak, parsley & basil and viola. Served it over egg noodles.

*Edited to add "noodles" so LS doesn't have a heart attack.


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## Latestarter

Stroganoff without noodles?  Of any kind?  SACRILEGE I tell ya!


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## RollingAcres

Yes with noodles, egg noodles. Gotta have noodles for stroganoff. Without it then life is not worth living.


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## greybeard

RollingAcres said:


> _Your heart will thank you. Your liver will thank you. You body will thank you. You will live a very, very long albeit much more miserable life!_


----------



## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> Night temps in the low 60s! That's gonna be like heaven!


Daytime HIGHS in the low 60's, that's FALL weather! It is higher 60's today, though back to ~60° high for the foreseeable future.



CntryBoy777 said:


> You can also add meat to *veveeta* and shells


----------



## Latestarter

Latestarter said:


> Back to goat mansion construction tomorrow. Supposed to be ~79° tomorrow with 2 days in the mid-upper 70s!  Night temps in the low 60s! That's gonna be like heaven! Can turn off the AC and open the house _*as long as it stays dry.*_ _Poss bit of rain tomorrow._



Yeah... that's the ticket... Woke up to cloudy, foggy, gray, damp, drizzly day and just finished a 30 minute 1" downpour that has streams running across the back pasture.  If not one thing, always another. One good thing... the LH was quite good reheated for lunch with a dash of milk added   Still enough left for one more meal... thinking dinner


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## Baymule

We lured Wilbur up in the trailer and took him to slaughter. Dropped the trailer off and went to town to grocery shop and run errands. We bought a coupon card that is good for a year. On this card is a BOGO for a medium Schlotsky's original sandwich, and that's where we had lunch. It is cool outside and cloudy. I have some scrap 2x12's at a neighbors for him to rip on his tables saw for me so I can get going on a chicken coop. I'll get started on that next week. Sister coming for Canton weekend, so will be busy.


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## Rammy

I used to get the beef romanoff from HH. Loved it. They dont make it anymore so I get the Best Choice brand at my local H.G. Hills. I like it. Make fried taters to go with it and maybe a side salad and its dinner, lunch, and sometimes dinner again since its just me. Saves on the food bill.


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## Mini Horses

I  love "planovers" 

Since I am an only here, I do a pot of "something" that I love & freeze portions.  Had a frozen portion tonight!   Saves time & energy, plus keeps you eating a meal.


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## CntryBoy777

We have never gotten used to not having kids around and still cook as we always have and have leftovers another night....when Joyce was helping DD3 for a year in Alabama and it was just me....I'd share with Mom and Dad to keep from having so much to eat for 3-4days....especially when I fixed liver and onions....by the third day it just isn't as appetizing as the first....


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## Mike CHS

We try to cook meals that we don't have to eat for several days unless it's something on the grill.  Like when I do ribs, I will do 3 or 4 racks and we vacuum seal and freeze enough for many meals.


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## goatgurl

@Latestarter i'm thinking that the problem with the hamburger helper had more to do with my pregnant tummy then anything else.  I had made hh lots of times before and have made many hh types of homemade dishes since, just can't get past the store bought version.  I make lots of one pot meals and always plan on having leftovers.  makes sense to me since i'm the only one I have to worry about feeding.
i'm glad the steroids are helping your hands and wrist.  hope they continue to improve.


----------



## Latestarter

A couple of hours ago I clicked the little tab up top that says Watched Threads... There were 144 pages, 20 threads to a page. I guess if you post to a thread, it automatically follows it for you. So I spent the past couple hours starting at page 144 and going backwards, un-following threads, most of which have been dead for years. I'm now down to 6 pages, mostly journals and posts that are still active.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> A couple of hours ago I clicked the little tab up top that says Watched Threads... There were 144 pages, 20 threads to a page. I guess if you post to a thread, it automatically follows it for you. So I spent the past couple hours starting at page 144 and going backwards, un-following threads, most of which have been dead for years. I'm now down to 6 pages, mostly journals and posts that are still active.


Yep, I suppose they can unknowingly pile up...........if you don't make options your own to start with.


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## Latestarter

Yup, that's how I deleted/unfollowed them. That selection box is only for the threads you manually select by checking the boxes. The selection to unfollow all threads is up top right side. The selection you show determines what to do with the threads you check/select on that page.

Big weather change here temp wise. woke up to 58 degrees and gray/cloudy and damp. No A/C needed today. Finishing up breakfast; pan of maple/brown sugar oatmeal with a little milk. Can't tell if I'm in for more rain or not... sure looks/feels like it. Forecast says sunny...  Sure isn't right now...


----------



## Mini Horses

Same thing I had for breakfast...no maple.  Creamy goat milk!

It was 89 here yesterday, only expect 74 today    Sprinkling and way overcast.

Sounds like we're having same kind of day     But, I'm going out to mow some perimeter fence lines.  Won't get much else done as it's not dry enough for more.  But have to do at least by fence to use the fields.    GB would say I am WAAAAAY understocked.   I won't be when winter hay is needed.  It isn't far off.  As warm as it has been my grass is still growing well, so I am hopeful to have some graze another 60 days.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Yup, that's how I deleted/unfollowed them. That selection box is only for the threads you manually select by checking the boxes. The selection to unfollow all threads is up top right side. The selection you show determines what to do with the threads you check/select on that page.


I wouldn't know. I've never elected to watch/follow threads or people, tho if one isn't careful, as you found out, BYH's software will decide for you, that you will, whether you want to or not ..........I prefer to begin with a blank slate and no boxes checked/enabled..


----------



## Latestarter

Well, been long past the last poss heat cycle for my girls. Had to be at least 10 days. The boys have been separated long enough now that I felt safe doing the lute thing. All 5 adults got the needle to the rear leg IM this afternoon.  They should come back into heat within 36 hours. The way I figure, that means they can start their next heat anywhere from 18-24 days later. So 18 days from today, I'll put the buck and wethers out in the pasture, then put the yearlings in the buck pen, then let the big girls out in the pasture. I'll keep them together in the large side of the pen for 2 weeks; Oct 14 - Oct 27, while the 5 doe kids will be stuck in the smaller buck pen for that 2 weeks. At the end of the 2 week breeding period, all will go back to the way it was before with the buck and wethers in the small pen and all the girls in the big pen.  

I'll lute the younguns mid next week after the adults have this heat cycle, but before they come into their next. Don't need the boys flipping out over a whole herd of does all in heat at the same time.  Best laid plans indicate I should have 2019 kidding between March 13 - March 26th  Perfectly where I want it to happen. Not too cold, not too hot. Now let's hope it all goes according to plan. None of the yearlings are large enough for me to want to breed them this fall. CC & CB got hit last fall and though CB has grown some, CC stopped and I think is going to be permanently stunted. A couple of this years kids are already near or as big as she is.  CC's daughter, a full month younger than the others, is almost the same size as her mother.

No sunshine today at all. Not even a break in the clouds. Just gray and damp. All this time crying for rain and I'm all ready done with gray, damp, & dreary. Ready for some nice cooler, sunny, fall days. Hope we don't go straight through into winter... That would be really depressing.


----------



## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> by the third day it just isn't as appetizing as the first....


Frankly I don't find it appetizing the first day either 



Latestarter said:


> I guess if you post to a thread, it automatically follows it for you.


Yep. And then when someone posts to a long dead thread, it pops up as something of "interest" for you.


----------



## Latestarter

So yesterday was a greasy/salty pork, all day meat fest... Over the course of the day I finished the rack of ribs. Today was a carbo-loading day. Doctored up some pasta sauce with hamburger, mushrooms, onions, added spices, and had a nice plate of spaghetti for lunch. Froze three single serve containers of the sauce for later use and have enough left to nicely coat 4 slices of garlic toast for a before bedtime, acid reflux inducing late night wake up later on. 

After 4 days of compression on my right calf, it has finally shrunk back down to almost normal size. It is still very sore, like a continuous cramp in the calf muscle. I've been massaging it as best I can as well to try and loosen it up. Gonna need to keep it compressed for a while longer to keep it from blowing back up again. Hopefully it will release and become pain free over the coming days. Have been wondering if this is maybe a DVT situation... Not sure what one of those "looks/feels" like or how it represents. Don't particularly like the idea of blood clots moving around in my veins... 

Beginning of the week I need to contact my primary care provider at the VA and ask for the doc to send out another steroid prescription for me as an emergency hold back. The one I just used replaced the last one and was prescribed back in early July. The one previous lasted a year before use. I think it was used in March/April some time. Can't remember. Probably posted here when it happened.


----------



## Mini Horses

While asking for that RX, ask about the leg and DVT --  right???

Maybe consider low dose aspirin ?


----------



## Latestarter

Already take low dose every morning. Part of my med regimen.

On a separate note, I have a confirmed 3 adult goats (of 5) that have gone back into heat as a result of the lute shot. I believe one other has as well, but she went actually very fast and was the first, now done. That leaves one left that I'm not sure of. Regardless, the first part of the plan seems to have worked and is now complete. Mid this coming week, I'll lute the younguns, and wait for them to cycle, then start swapping pens and getting ready for RJ's fall extravaganza of breeding.


----------



## Latestarter

Kinda feel bad for RJ... gettin' that blue ball feelin'... Bang and April have both been hanging out over by the buck pen wafting their enticing scent in his direction. He's been trying diligently to get to them through the cattle panel, so far without success. Let's hope it remains so... He and they will get their chance in about 3 weeks. Dot was doing so yesterday. I wasn't quick enough to catch both huzzies over there. April is off to the right having walked out of frame. I believe CC was over there participating earlier as well. The only one I'm not sure about in any way is CB...


----------



## Rammy

Devonviolet said:


> Well, we got another inch of rain while we were in church. For a whopping total of 6 inches of rain in the past 2 days!
> 
> I like your ideas for order forms and sending out a winter news letter with special sales.  If the customer picks it up at our farm, I can sell my cheese and fermented foods, like homemade sauerkraut, Kombucha and Kefir.
> 
> I will have at least one outlet for my personal care products. Here are just a few of them on my table at farmer's market.
> View attachment 52553
> 
> View attachment 52554
> The lady who owns the local herb shop/health food store, has asked me to sell my personal care products, and chicken eggs in her store once farmers market finishes.   I'm also planning, to visit the health food store, in Sulphur Springs, to see if they want to sell ny products there, as well.
> 
> In addition to my news letter, I will also be able to sell through our farmer's market weekly sale. The sale's flier comes out on Monday early (with items being offered that week), and orders have to be placed by late Tuesday. I think they are then picked up on Thursday.
> 
> 
> I KNOW!  I sure do miss our chats.  It will be nice when I have time to chat again.




Do you have a website where people can order your products? That might be something you could look into.


----------



## Rammy

Finally! Ive caught up reading @Latestarter thread! Now I can do like @Senile_Texas_Aggie and stalk....I mean catch up on some other threads.


----------



## Bruce

It will be nice when you have more fencing and can have the boys and girls separated by a pasture, not just a fence.


----------



## Devonviolet

Rammy said:


> Do you have a website where people can order your products? That might be something you could look into.


No. At this time, I intentionally don’t have a website.  I’m not set up to send out a lot of orders.  For right now, at least, I have plenty to do with local orders.  I can advertise product, that I already have made, on the farmer’s market weekly sale page. The items are ordered from Monday through Wed., and delivered on Thursday, during a 2 hour window.  I also have at least one store that will sell my products and I will be visiting other stores, to see if they will also sell my products. I doubt, at this stage, in my life, if I will ever have enough time or energy to sell to such a broad a market, as the internet.


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## Baymule

@Devonviolet you can make a flyer and post it on your journal. When people have a request, you can PM them a copy.


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> @Devonviolet you can make a flyer and post it on your journal. When people have a request, you can PM them a copy.


Good idea, Bay!


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Kinda feel bad for RJ... gettin' that blue ball feelin'... Bang and April have both been hanging out over by the buck pen wafting their enticing scent in his direction. He's been trying diligently to get to them through the cattle panel, so far without success. Let's hope it remains so... He and they will get their chance in about 3 weeks. Dot was doing so yesterday. I wasn't quick enough to catch both huzzies over there. April is off to the right having walked out of frame. I believe CC was over there participating earlier as well. The only one I'm not sure about in any way is CB...
> View attachment 52706


  That’s HILARIOUS!!!      What a little hussy that girl it!!! 

Of course. It was even funnier when you described RJ trying to get at the girls, when you were here, visiting this afternoon.    I liked to die laughing!!!


----------



## Latestarter

Yes indeed... Had to visit the Jersey Girl Dairy and pick up some milk and yogurt. Hadn't really planned on the yogurt, but they had a bunch of 4oz cups on sale, so WTH... Since I was better than 1/2 way to DV's place, I texted her and asked if I could swing by for a visit. Of course she said yes  I know she's been awfully busy with the making of products for sale and didn't want to interfere or cause her to fall behind. Got to visit with my 2nd favorite LGDs as well; Deo & Violet.  They are such sweeties! DV & her DH were looking good and healthy. Great to see them again and they treated me to some special custard with really good tasting ice cream on top. Back to my diet again tomorrow 

Also wanted to check out a couple of feed stores along the way for a replacement feed for the goats. The Dumor blue label 16% protein w/AC added is now $14.99/50# bag @ TSC... I can get other generic 16% feed for $8-9/bag. I told the folks there that if they can't get that price down, I'm going to have to shop elsewhere. Can't pay twice the price for the name. They also have old feed (which I told them about before) that they tried to sell me. Packaged back in July... Told them I didn't want it. Bought 5 bags pkgd in early August. Still older than I like to buy. One of the girls said they have a new manager... She said she'd tell him about the feed issue(s). Think I need to get really serious about finding a new feed and supplier.  Like soon.

I wish there was an actual mill nearby where I could get custom feed milled to my specs. Have searched but can't locate one. Stopped at the "feed mill" in Pittsburg as one stop today. Figured they had "mill" in their name, but no, they don't mill feed...  Oh well...


----------



## Wehner Homestead

We get our cattle feed custom mixed at a place called Soy Processors. It’s a co-op. Maybe another avenue to search through. Also a local grain elevator does custom mixing. You might ask the local FFA advisor or at the extension office. Just some thoughts...


----------



## Mike CHS

The places that mill custom blends can't be found it seems unless you have a source.  The one we now use is in Alabama and the feed is outstanding and only costs $180 for a thousand pounds.


----------



## Latestarter

Do you drive to the mill to pick it up Mike? I'd be happy to do so if there was a mill within easy driving distance. $180/1000# is $9/50#... I could handle that. Maybe next time you're there you could ask them if they know of any mills over here... anywhere between Texarkana and Dallas would work. One hour east or 2 hours west. There is a coop in Sulpher Springs, I don't know exactly where, but that's about an hour west of here and will be my next place to check out I guess.


----------



## Mini Horses

Sounds "funny" to hear you say you are buying milk & yogurt when you have dairy goats.   Of course, they may be dried off now.   I'm looking at 4 gal in my frig and only 1 being milked -- although 3 more could be but slacking as their doelings are pretty much done nursing & I don't want more to do right now. Need to process this milk into cream, cheese, butter, yogurt, whatever!   There will be another gallon tomorrow.  Guess this is why some like the NDs....less milk.  

Feed prices just keep going up, up, up!   I'm not in a high livestock area, so mills are hard to find. And for same reasons, no co-ops. I can get a good mix from a farmer, about 30 miles out,  for what equals about $9-9.50 if 50# bag.   It's about 18% & he grows his own, low impact chemicals, etc. (he raises dairy cattle, hogs, chickens).  I keep a decent mineral mix out & it's 1/3 less than TXC feeds.  But there's that drive, scheduling, handling, etc.  He uses 55 gal drums (which you buy) with screw on lids. Swap out for pick up or he'll refill ones you have.   Then unload from truck with FEL on tractor.  Can't take it IN the barn without my hand truck. 400-425# each.  Handling issues to consider.     Winter weather is ok for 2-3 barrels but summer, I don't like to keep that much grain in that "packaging".   You juggle time, cost, quality, storage, drive, etc.   Oh, my goats love the feed & do well on it.

With weather disasters everywhere, cost will continue to rise.  My grass is still growing!


----------



## Mike CHS

Teresa just told me that it is $160 for 1000 pounds and we do pick it up. It's the same price either in bulk (in your barrels) or they bag it up.   I'll ask them if they know anyone but we are about to quit feeding once we merge the flocks.   We were buying feed in Lawrenceburg which is almost an hour away until we found out about the place just 25 miles south of us from the folks we bought some sheep from.


----------



## Mini Horses

I don't grain everyday, every goat.  My grass keeps them well.  But I do grain at milking, when kidding, nursing, etc.  I do give some lesser amounts about 3 times a week as growing kids, keep rumen working, etc., etc.   Bucks get eased into and out of some grains during rut.  BUT 24 hr pasture & hay available for bad weather and all winter.

Winter it's high quality hay for all, some grains for all does.


----------



## Baymule

Joe, we drive to Sulphur Springs to the Martindale feed store for our horse feed. I think DV buys some feed there too. They also buy from a co-op there in Winnsboro.


----------



## Latestarter

Just found the martindale Feed Mill store. Think I'll head there tomorrow and check them out. Thanks! DV said the Co-op is actually in Sulpher Springs as well. Not sure where, but if so, I'll check them out at the same time. Also located the Northeast Farmers Co-op and will go there as well.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I know she's been awfully busy with the making of products for sale and didn't want to interfere or cause her to fall behind.


You could do some chores that need to be done but if she does them it takes away from product making 



Latestarter said:


> Figured they had "mill" in their name, but no, they don't mill feed...


Kinda like "Mel's Tea Room" in Sackville where DD1 will be going to school. The only tea they have is "regular" and "decaf". It is a diner. Thought maybe it USED to be a tea room and whoever bought it last just didn't change the name but no, I gather it has always been a diner. So WHY name it "Tea Room"??? DD was pretty excited when she saw the store name, quite deflated when she looked at the menu online.


----------



## greybeard

There's lots of feed mills in Texas.
Why name Dollar General... Dollar General when there is very little including a pack of gum that is less than $1?
Why name a five and dime, a five and dime when everything in it is way over that?



Answer:
It gets curious people....just one of several target demographics,  to walk into the business.

She should have gone to TAMU so she could visit this place tho she would likely not care much for the rough and tumble rancher customers that get their coffee and kolaches there every morning:
http://www.madhatterstearoom.com/mad-hatters-tea-room-and-boutique-about-us.html
http://www.madhatterstearoom.com/mad-hatters-tea-room-and-boutique-menus.html

I've been there....more than once, for a certain kind of pastry......they make really good kolaches, tho I doubt they give one rats butt in hades whether they're using non-gmo, gluten free, all natural, 100% organic free range fruit and other products and by-products or not.


----------



## Latestarter

So I looked over the sheep/goat pellet offerings by Martidale Feed Mill (Thanks Bay!). Seems most of the feeds are medicated (for coccidiosis). I don't want a medicated feed. The only feed they offer that meets what I'm looking for is a 17% pellet. It does have AC already added, non-medicated, 2:1 Cah (<--- ETA: WTH is that? CA : PH) ratio, copper and selenium (as well as zinc, cobalt, and manganese) added. Though they don't stock it, they can have it in on the next truck (Thursday) for the huge price of $9.65/50# bag. That works out to $193/1000 pounds. I think I'll see if I can talk them down to $9.00/bag with a 1000# order.






Told the lady on the phone I'd likely stop by for a visit as I want to check out the NE TX Co-op as well while over there. There is also an Atwoods as well as several other feed stores so I can check them out as well.


----------



## Latestarter

Just got back from my road trip. Ordered 10 bags of the above feed. Should arrive there Thursday. Round trip cost me ~ $20 in gas, saved >$50 in feed cost. They'll call when it arrives and I'll go pick it up. If this feed works out as well as I hope it will, next order will be for 15-20 bags. Asked about a bulk discount and they said it was 20 cents/bag on 1 ton orders, or about an $8.00 savings overall. Not applicable to me. No matter, I don't mind driving and would have put those miles on the truck regardless just running around town here. $9.65 for a better quality, fresh feed, is much better than $14.99 for feed packaged 2 months ago (or more). Sorry TSC... you lost me as a feed customer.

So I also went over to the NE TX Co-op to see what they had. They didn't have a prepackaged feed that compares with what I bought. But they do have a feed mill so I walked across the street and talked to a sales person and their nutritionist about what they could do to help me get the feed I'm looking for. Short answer is they could help me... If I was willing to buy a min of 6000 pounds  The sales guy then said he could possibly get it down to ~1500 pounds, but the price would be ridiculous and It prob wouldn't work for me from that approach. Their mill plant isn't set up to make such small amounts or to package that small. He said they'd have to make the feed and load it into a truck to drive it around to a different part of the plant to be individually bagged in 50# bags. I told them I was sorry I wasn't a large consumer... 

The nutritionist said that I shouldn't be feeding feed with AC to lactating goats... I questioned him as to why as I was under the impression that it had no negative effect on them and that I had experienced no negative effects. He said it can cause them to have milk fever among other issues...  I haven't experienced that, but will watch out for it next kidding cycle. Any of you other goat experts out there heard one way or the other?

While there I also took a look around the store at supplies. I priced out a bottle of cydectin/moxidectin sheep drench that I paid $95 for at TSC and they had it for $75.  Also looked at some other things and they were substantially less expensive. I'm thinkin' TSC has lost more than just a feed customer. The cost for Pyrethrum  was substantially less as well. Don't remember the exact numbers.


----------



## Mike CHS

We buy our meds at our Marshal County COOP but what's funny is the COOP in the next county over charges more than TSC


----------



## Latestarter

I wish there was a local Co-op here, but I guess driving 50 miles one way isn't all that bad... It's mostly highway.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> If this feed works out as well as I hope it will, next order will be for 15-20 bags


How long will that 750-1000 lbs last you?


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Just stock up while you are there instead of having to make a run for just one thing. Lots of that is stuff you keep on hand anyway. I have an app called EverNote and it keeps everything up to date for me. I have files for farm, goats, cows, and even a grocery list. I can delete it as I buy it. I also have a health one where each of family member has a list of up to date meds, allergies, surgeries, hospitalizations, and other pertinent info. It’s nice to make it harder to forget my list at home and it’s easy to add to. Mine is also synced with DH. The app is free. We pay less than $10/yr to be able to share ours so he can see everything I enter and vice versa. Works great for tracking heats, calving/kidding dates, when roosters were moved, etc.


----------



## Latestarter

Right now I go through ~15 bags a month. A bag lasts ~2-2.5 days


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## Mike CHS

Joe - what kind of storage do you have to keep rodents out?  We wound up getting 55 gallon drums to go with our half dozen galvanized trash cans.


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## Latestarter

I keep the bags inside the storage building, stacked horizontally on top of large 20 qt coolers (like the one I put the lamb in). No rodent issues at all. I take a bag at a time outside behind the bldg and dump it into a galvanized trash can with lid which is kept under the tarp with the hay bales.


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## Baymule

I have fed my horses Martindale 14% All Purpose Pellets for years. The price is the best I have ever found and they have always done great on this feed.


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## Latestarter

This last batch of hay I bought got riddled with mold. I mean bad... Even down inside the bales between the flakes. The outsides were coated in gray fuzz/powder, and greens and blues/blacks that could fill a painter's pallet. I had to rip the bales apart and salvage what I could for the goats. The air was filled with a cloud of mold spores and I had to stay upwind. Just broke into the last bale (thankfully) and will need to get more later this week. I'm going to try and get the orchard/alfalfa mix again and I hope he has it. The goats really liked it, virtually no waste, and it didn't mold. I also think instead of keeping the hay out behind the bldg on pallets under a tarp, I'm gonna store it inside the bldg this time.

Yeah, thanks again Bay for turning me on to Martidale. I have high hopes for the feed I purchased and expect it will work great. I have enough to last me through the weekend of the Dumor. Should be arriving some time tomorrow on their truck. They said they'd call me. If it's late in the day I may have to wait till Friday to go get it.


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## Baymule

We even feed the pigs on the 14% all purpose pellets, then finish them on soured corn. 

It is foggy and soggy this morning. It is so dewy and wet, the sun hits the droplets on the leaves and grass and they sparkle and glisten. Pretty, but as the sun climbs, it sure will be humid.


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## Latestarter

Yeah... humid... in the hour I was out feeding and tending animals I was soaked. From the knees down from the dew and from the knees up from sweat. Just standing still I had a combo of sweat and condensation rolling down my face...  Gotta give everything a few hours to dry out some. Ended up with wet socks too  Time to buy a new pair of slip ons. These have holes and are falling apart.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> Yeah, thanks again Bay for turning me on to Martidale. I have high hopes for the feed I purchased and expect it will work great. I have enough to last me through the weekend of the Dumor. Should be arriving some time tomorrow on their truck. They said they'd call me. If it's late in the day I may have to wait till Friday to go get it.


It might be good to have some of the Dumor to mix with the new feed for a day or so...don't want any upset tummies from a sudden feed change...


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## Wehner Homestead

What FEM said x2. My thoughts exactly.


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Yeah... humid... in the hour I was out feeding and tending animals I was soaked. From the knees down from the dew and from the knees up from sweat. Just standing still I had a combo of sweat and condensation rolling down my face...  Gotta give everything a few hours to dry out some. Ended up with wet socks too  Time to buy a new pair of slip ons. These have holes and are falling apart.


So you were bathing in your own sweat


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> So you were bathing in your own sweat


New type of sweat pants??



Latestarter said:


> Time to buy a new pair of slip ons. These have holes and are falling apart.


You don't have any gorilla tape?  Actually I need to break mine out. My old rubber winter boots have open cracks, get wet feet. Local farm store won't have replacements for a couple of weeks.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> New type of sweat pants??
> 
> 
> You don't have any gorilla tape?  Actually I need to break mine out. My old rubber winter boots have open cracks, get wet feet. Local farm store won't have replacements for a couple of weeks.



 new sweat pants, LS style

Those gorilla tapes are supposed to fix anything...I've never used it. Or he can get those Flex Seal tapes.


----------



## Latestarter

Nah... I'll splurge and spend another $11.00 for a new pair that will last me another couple months. When I came in I peeled off the wet T-shirt and pants, cleaned up, dried off, and enjoyed the AC 

Oh, I won't do a 1 for 1 swap on the feed... I'll absolutely do a mix as I swap them over. As I said, I have enough Dumor to last me till the weekend. The change over will probably involve a bag of each mixed 25:75, then 50:50, 75:25, then the new feed, over a 3-4 day period. Since they get pellets twice a day, that should give enough time to adjust I think.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I figured you knew better.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> bsolutely do a mix as I swap them over. As I said, I have enough Dumor to last me till the weekend. The change over will probably involve a bag of each mixed 25:75, then 50:50, 75:25, then the new feed, over a 3-4 day period. Since they get pellets twice a day, that should give enough time to adjust I think.


Good plan!


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## Baymule

I mostly did inside stuff. We picked up the grands after school and day care. Late evening for their mommy and daddy.


----------



## Pastor Dave

My rabbit feed is out of Terre Haute, IN and is called Graham Feeds. @Wehner Homestead, you ever hear of them or try their products?


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## Wehner Homestead

No, I haven’t. We get feed in Greensburg typically though. Sometimes Scottsburg.


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## Latestarter

The feed store didn't call yesterday so I called them this morning and the feed was there. The man that answered said he had asked the lady to call me yesterday to let me know. No biggie. Went and picked it up and it turns out they ship in bag counts of 12 so I paid for the extra 2 and now have 15 bags of feed in my out bldg. 3 Dumor and 12 MFM Will start mixing them the next time I open a Dumor bag. Probably Sunday morning. The julian date on the bag is 269, meaning this feed was bagged on Sept 26th. Can't complain about this feed being stale. Here's a label compare:




Love that this feed has higher protein, lower fiber, double the fat, and just looks like a much better quality feed (from my limited knowledge of what to look for) for 1/3 less cost. 

My hay guy has the mix hay orchard/alfalfa, and I'll be headed out his way this evening to pick up 12 bales. $13.50 per. Gotta buy a new cheap tarp to put on the floor under the pallets in the outbldg... Should make it easier to clean between hay loads if keeping it inside works. I have 2 basically brand new pallets that are clean/never been used for dirty uses that I'll put on the tarp to hold the hay. These are the pallets I got to make a milk stand out of. I'll go cruise the place I got them and get another. 

I've also decided that I do NOT like hay feeders and will continue to tear up flakes into their feed buckets after their pellets twice a day. Virtually no waste, even with the alfalfa, and with what I'm paying for hay, I need that hay to not rot on the ground.


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## Mike CHS

Lower cost for better feed is a good thing.


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## Rammy

You forgot to post your address showing on the reciept so we can stalk you............I mean come by and say Hi like everyone is going to do with STA. hehehe...........


----------



## Latestarter

Hey, I've posted open invites a number of times! Won't post the address openly, but more than willing to msg it to any interested visitors. Any and all are welcome with forewarning so I can plan enough food. Just let me know when you want to visit!


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## RollingAcres

1/3 less cost but better feed, score!

@Rammy


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## RollingAcres

Also LS talked about his "sleeping style" before in the past, so sneaking around his house stalking him...well you can imagine the rest.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Love that this feed has higher protein, lower fiber, double the fat, and just looks like a much better quality feed (from my limited knowledge of what to look for) for 1/3 less cost.


More fat is good, as it relates to energy  as long as it doesn't get way up there.
You always want to watch the fat % content. Too much fat can hamper fiber digestibility in any ruminant. But, there are fats that are 'rumen inert' meaning it doesn't kill off the rumen microbes..fish meal and roasted soybean meal are 2 that come to mind. 
For cattle, if I don't know 'where' the fat content on the label is coming from, I want it below 7% for sure. 

 I do notice tho, that the Dumor label details  which grains and grain by products are used and the label on the left only says "grain by products and grain products". Rice hulls (the Dumor label) have almost zero feedng value compared to the rice bran..about 12% TDN for rice hulls compared to 70% TDN for the bran. That is TDN....NOT to be confused with raw protein or TDP. (Total Digestible Nutrients vs Total Digestible protein) Rice Hulls are almost always used as a filler because it's dirt cheap for the mill. Soybean hulls are not great either, but are much better than rice hulls.

I looked at feeding rice bran, rice hulls and/or a mix of both a few years instead of range meal during winter. Range meal is mostly cottonseed meal and soybean meal. I did not like what I found  out relative to the rice product(s) and stayed with conventional range meal.

Altho the following concerns only lambs, the results for cattle on feed tests are very similar:
Feed tests show dry matter digestibility of cottonseed hulls, rice mill feed, soybean hulls, and beet pulp in lambs, to be 41%, 31%, 75%, and 84%, respectively. Weight gains for lambs were reported to be 1.6 pounds over the 14 day digestibility trial for rice hulls while soyhulls supported 11.5 pounds and beet pulp 13.7 pounds.

Results from tests like these are why it is  important to exactly 'what' is in your sack of feed.
"grain products/by-products" doesn't say much.

(I'm not crazy either, about seeing 'animal fat' on the Dumor label, tho I realize it is still fairly common. Fish meal is fine, but I don't want repurposed beef tallow or restaurant grease in my cattle feed )


----------



## Rammy

Yeah, your right.  Maybe a Christmas card is a better idea.


----------



## Latestarter

Perhaps I should look into getting some beet pulp as a feed additive. My girls are awful skinny. Partly from feeding babies, but all of them are now drying off. I really want to get them back into better overall shape here before the cold sets in and as they are about to get knocked up as well. The 5 adult does all just got wormed again, this time with cydectin as the ivomec didn't seem to do any good. I know/understand the cydectin can cause abortions in recently impregnated does, so needed to get that done before breeding them here in a couple of weeks. I had 3 does that were really pale and the other 2 were headed that way/maybe just past the "do them" stage. Of them all, Dot is in the best shape, CB in the worst. All the kids are looking great.

Awww cumon now RA... you don't want to be stalking me here after dark when I'd be sleeping anyway... Might be bad for your health (as well as your eyesight & stomach )


----------



## RollingAcres

Hahaha
I know you have a 9mm there and probably some other guns. I don't want to get shot. "Shoot first ask questions later"


----------



## Bruce

The dogs will warn you before you get to the house. I believe your eyes and stomach are safe.


----------



## Mini Horses

LS my goats love beet pulp.  I've used senior feed with it in the feed  for years for my horses and it sure helps keep the oldsters in decent weight.  When a horse gets to late 20s & mid 30s their jaw teeth are basically gone and chewing hay is out.  So this provides a "complete" feed and some of them never get hay.    BP is a high calorie feed.

Goats are huge forage eaters but beet pulp will help with that satiety.  They still need hay, for the long fiber  Their systems are different from a horse.  In winter my goats & horses like my servings of wet BP, using warm water.    Even in coldest, they scoff it up before any can freeze!   This also keeps moisture in their gut.  Sometimes they drink less if water is cold & with dry hay, no green grass, that's a slow down factor in the gut AND a lot of dry matter can dehydrate them if not consuming water.

If your girls are thin, I'd sure get some flaked BP and add it to their grains.  It's not cheap but works. Goes further per bag than you may think, especially since you feed individually.   Gives them some extra calories when milking, too.


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> The dogs will warn you before you get to the house. I believe your eyes and stomach are safe.


Our eyes are only safe until we see LS in the buff welding a 9mm.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Mini Horses said:


> LS my goats love beet pulp.  I've used senior feed with it in the feed  for years for my horses and it sure helps keep the oldsters in decent weight.  When a horse gets to late 20s & mid 30s their jaw teeth are basically gone and chewing hay is out.  So this provides a "complete" feed and some of them never get hay.    BP is a high calorie feed.
> 
> Goats are huge forage eaters but beet pulp will help with that satiety.  They still need hay, for the long fiber  Their systems are different from a horse.  In winter my goats & horses like my servings of wet BP, using warm water.    Even in coldest, they scoff it up before any can freeze!   This also keeps moisture in their gut.  Sometimes they drink less if water is cold & with dry hay, no green grass, that's a slow down factor in the gut AND a lot of dry matter can dehydrate them if not consuming water.
> 
> If your girls are thin, I'd sure get some flaked BP and add it to their grains.  It's not cheap but works. Goes further per bag than you may think, especially since you feed individually.   Gives them some extra calories when milking, too.



We feed a mix of beet pulp and alfalfa pellets to our goats as well as hay and it helps keep everyone at a good weight, we do have to feed our Lamancha doe separately from the rest as she needs a little more to maintain a nice weight.


----------



## Latestarter

Rammy caught on to what I was referring... She's seen me clothed...  I use my jacuzzi naked and have no issues stripping down for a hose shower out on the back deck when I'm really nasty, before coming inside.  It is what it is... Not gonna be seen in the pages of GQ or playgirl any time... ever.   Not forcing anyone to look... 

So yesterday's cost was $278 for hay and pellets. $162 for the hay. Makes me jealous of those who can pick up their hay in the field for $4-5 a bale. Guess my goats are costing me ~ $300/month give or take. Gotta factor in cost of mineral/water/meds/vaccines/etc. So maybe $350/mo? Gosh... I guess I'm paying $10+/day for the privilege of doing all the work involved with their upkeep and maintenance   Makes an unavoidable reason for me to get off my duff and move I guess. I could join a gym, but it would be wasted dollars as I wouldn't go. Sure would like to have a sauna and steam room here to go with the jacuzzi though... I'd definitely use them!

Got 12 bales and moved them into the outbldg last night. They are light bales, and loosely tied. I was a bit disappointed in that and refused a couple of bales that were so loose the string fell off when trying to lift it. One of my hay guy's helpers actually helped me load so I didn't get a chance to talk with him. I did see him working with his tractor there while I was there, even though it was just past dark. So I never got a chance to discuss the poor quality of the last alfalfa I purchased from him. Not his fault... fault of the grower he purchased it from. But if he knows, maybe he won't buy from that person again.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> So yesterday's cost was $278 for hay and pellets. $162 for the hay. Makes me jealous of those who can pick up their hay in the field for $4-5 a bale. Guess my goats are costing me ~ $300/month give or take. Gotta factor in cost of mineral/water/meds/vaccines/etc. So maybe $350/mo? Gosh... I guess I'm paying $10+/day for the privilege of doing all the work involved with their upkeep and maintenance



To calculate true cost per day/animal, you also have to include land costs/month ÷ 30 as well as any farm only related insurance you may be making monthly payments on. (the mortgage payment for that portion of the property devoted to ag) 
Electricity costs to run water well for livestock water.
Your daily dog food costs for an LGD (assuming that is the primary reason one has the dog) 
Daily fuel costs for any ag/livestock related travel, including visits to vets and feed stores.
And of course, pasture upkeep costs...mowing, spraying, planting etc.

Mostly because of my small herd size, it costs me almost $2/day to keep a cow.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> They are light bales, and loosely tied.


The looser the bale is made and tied, the more bales the producer can get from an acre, and if they are selling 'by the bale', the more $$ they make. 
For custom balers, if they are getting paid by the bale, it is to their advantage as well to bale and tie loosely. Tying loosely makes the bale 'appear' to be longer than it would otherwise be if it were a nice tightly tied bale.

Of course, there's always the chance there was simply something wrong with the baler and it wasn't intentional.....


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## Bruce

I guess we shouldn't ASSUME that the hay sellers are honest people then. Very sad.



Latestarter said:


> Sure would like to have a sauna and steam room here to go with the jacuzzi though... I'd definitely use them!


"Sauna of Dreams". Build it and you will come.


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## Latestarter

Really liked that movie... with a sauna and steam room I could "go the distance & ease my pain"  as well. That movie kinda hit a personal spot as I didn't have time with my dad when his time came. My last communication with him was not on good terms.   When I reflect on my parents, there is a lot that makes me angry... and sad. Not that they intentionally did anything bad (least I don't look at it that way), but that they were just so dysfunctional/screwed up. They did the best they could I guess.  Rarely worth reflecting on. whatever...

Since orchard grass is apparently a "colder weather" grass/hay and I've never seen it here or in CO, it has to be trucked in from elsewhere. I saw some of this mix advertised on CL and it was out of Indiana I think, or maybe it was PA... can't remember now. Point is, it was somewhere up north, and was being sold by the truck load. Much more than I could use or need... or afford for that matter.

Woke up with reflux so took a couple of tums. Then decided to come online and check the radar as there are some decent T-storms west of here, north of Dallas extending up into OK. They are forecasting poss rain here through Tuesday. Then, as I normally do, I came here. I was reading on another thread about memories and youth and so now I'm having a reflective moment. doesn't happen often I guess. I don't take a lot of pictures, because I have no desire/urge to go back and look through them. I no longer "collect stuff" as I don't need any more boxes of crap hanging around. I remember only choice bits of my past, because my past is in no way spectacular, or worthy of reliving. I had no close childhood friendships. Had no close young adult friendships. I have/had a lot of acquaintances... I can recount a lot of stuff that happened while in the military, but didn't really have/make any close "friends" there either. I've always been pretty much a loner. May explain in part my failed marriages...

Maybe I'm not "normal" or have some underlying "fault" that makes me disregard or have no interest in the past. I really live in the present and consider the near future. I have boxes of stuff here that remain boxed since moving because it's all stuff that has no bearing on the here and now... pictures, books, collectables, memorabilia... Just not important to me. 

Many parents have near constant contact with their kids... That's not me either. I contact them every so often to make sure they're OK and doing well. They touch base with me every so often to make sure I haven't died, and that all is well here. When I visit them, after a day or two, I'm ready to leave again. I've seen them & know they're OK, doing well, and that's enough. When they visit me, a week or so is plenty long enough. It's not really that I WANT/need them to leave, They are welcome to stay as long as they want (within reason - don't want them back permanently), but do kinda want my own "space" back. The exception to that is my favorite oldest daughter, and that because she pretty much is a loner also. She stays to herself and doesn't impact my day to day life when she's here. She also has epilepsy and I've cared for her her whole life. I am a "caregiver" type person. She does have a very good memory though and excellent recall.

OK... enough musing, time to go back to bed and try to get some sleep.


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## greybeard

I have quite a few pictures of other things and other people, but very few pictures were ever taken of me doing any kind of work. In the near future, if someone like one of my grandchildren were to go thru my family picture media, they would probably think this place built itself. 
Other pictures might bring pleasant memories back.


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## RollingAcres

LS I don't think there's anything wrong for being a loner. I can't say that I am ine but maybe a partial loner. I really could care less if I hang out with friends or not. I go to work every day and by the time I'm done I just want to be home with my son (and sometimes DH lol). My family are far away, even the closest is in California. But like you, after a few days or a week, I'm ready to get back to my "normal".


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## Mini Horses

GB -- that you & yours?


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## Mini Horses

I believe we all evolve.   My mom & I were distant emotionally, even tho together a lot.  My dad & I were closer, even tho he was Navy & his ship was "always" gone.   Guess I'm a loner, at least self dependent.   Can't say I am emotionally close to either child, or my only GD.  It's life.   Glad to see you but just as glad when you leave, until next time.  

Maybe like a chicken -- set fervently for weeks to hatch, fight like a ninja to protect when young.  Leave you to what you have/should have learned while there and goes on with the life of existing day to day,  sharing feed, water & nest box, just don't push me!


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## Latestarter

Think maybe that's GB's dad with him and twin bro on/in the saddle. Had to be pretty uncomfortable for whomever is sitting up on the back of the saddle... Probably wasn't all that comfy for the horse either...


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## greybeard

No, that's me, several decades ago, with my twin boys--maybe 2 yrs old...I was still in USN at the time, so it had to be sometime before '78.  Pretty sure that was on my one of sister's apps. I sat on the back of the saddle just for the pic so I could hold them in saddle and not have to worry about one of them nudging the horse on the neck with their foot. The one in front was holding to the saddle horn for dear life..probably the highest off the ground he had ever been at that time. 
I have another from the same week, (not scanned yet) of them & their 2 yr older sister sitting on my father's brahma herd sire with me standing beside. Not even a rope on the bull. Kinda scares me to look back at it now, but he was a very docile bull.


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## Wehner Homestead

That’s interesting that you are a twin and had twins!


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## greybeard

My daughter also has twin boys and I have twin cousins. (Did anyway..my twin cousins are now deceased)


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## Pastor Dave

Not a like on the cousins part, but the above average occurrence of multiples.


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## Wehner Homestead

Wow! I wonder if there will be another generation with twins! That might be a Guinness World Record.


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## Latestarter

So I opened the last of 2 bags of dumor feed tonight and started mixing it with the new stuff. This crap was packaged back in August and it had clumps of moldy pellets at the top of the bag when I opened it. NOT happy... Got all the mold clumps out that I could find. Won't be going back to dumor or TSC for feed again any time soon. Wondering how bad the last bag will be. Probably won't be opening that until Thursday or Friday.   Had several little rain squalls move through today. Didn't even register in the rain gauge. Looks like a chance of more overnight and more forecast as poss through tomorrow and tomorrow night.


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## Mike CHS

We had an issue with TSC chicken feed that was moldy when we poured it into our barrel.  We took the barrel and the bag and hauled it back to TSC for them to rebag and give us a refund.  The thing is we wouldn't have found the mold if we hadn't poured it out since it was in the bottom 1/4 of the bag.  They gave a refund and told us they had made arrangements with the vendor to resolve those issues but we found another source.


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## farmerjan

I would not have mixed it in, I would have immediately put it back in the bag, with the moldy clumps visible, and taken it back.  They would reimburse you.  I am not saying that their feed is junk..... I got a couple bags of pellets from our local mill where I get my feed... 2 bags I did not get in the can for a week.  By the time I did get them opened, they had moldy spots.  This feed rarely sits on their floor for a week at the mill. We have to move the bulk bin before I can get the bulk feed I normally get;  and haven't had but 2 nurse cows in the barn until this past week.
It is the dampness and the humidity that is causing some of it.   I have gotten some of their feed on occasion, especially if I am going by a pasture on my way home from town and don't have a couple of buckets of feed with me.... saves me a trip home and back.  Of course, we do not regularly feed at pasture, just a "treat" type thing to call them in to the catch pen to keep them coming in and calmer.  With most of y'all, your animals are "pets" compared to our beef cattle. And I try to keep my nurse cows on the same feed all the time, but the ones out at pasture will eat most any kind that we give them since it is more like a treat than a "feeding". They don't need the feed when the grass is growing.


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## Mike CHS

That's one of the things I like about having a custom feed mill.  We call and give them a date that we want and the feed is bagged up the day before we pick it up.


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## farmerjan

Our feed mill is the same way, as far as saying I am coming so & so,  & it is made that day or at most the day before.  Our bulk feed is ordered by the ton and I call and say I would like it delivered on such and such... or I call and say when you are coming to the zoo or someone in this direction, I need this.  So I get an "early order" discount, I get bulk feed price (no bags)  and it gets made that morning or perhaps the night before if the truck is leaving early.   Still, even with what they keep "on the floor" it is seldom there more than a few days.

  I realize that TSC has to truck it from centralized feed mill locations etc., but with the horrendous wet conditions we have had, the high humidity, and the loading and unloading of the trucks, I still think they do a decent job of providing  feed.  It is up to the buyer's discriminating  needs to get the best feed for what they are doing.  I've seen some feed from another feed mill that I wouldn't feed to my animals....and gotten mold and once a whole "hatch" of a horrible beetle in a bag of their feed.
They replaced it and told me to take it and feed it to my chickens if I wanted.  They loved the live protein.
Purina has a reputation of having very good feed, but it is all made at a dedicated plant and trucked.


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## Latestarter

It was the last of the most recent date bags they had (early Aug). The others were 1/2 a pallet stored up high on a shelf in the back room, not cooled with AC, dated back the beginning of July. I needed some to mix with the new. The whole bag wasn't bad, just the top couple of inches. Luckily it had clumped up so was easily seen and removed. If the next bag is like that, I will return it and just swap over to the new stuff, mixed in with whatever is left in the barrel at that time.

The new pellets look and smell really nice. I'm sure the goats will love them and eat them just fine. Don't expect any digestive issues with the swap over. They're liking the new mixed hay as well. They dig down to get at the alfalfa leaves/pieces that sift down to the bottom of the feed buckets, but then eat all the orchard grass, even the most part of what they push out of the bowl onto the ground. Generally I find maybe a fist full sized pile of alfalfa powder left in the bottoms of the feed bowls when I collect them up. and a handful of stems on the ground that are more like straw than grass.

Had signed on and just begun reading Jan's first post, and we had a 2-3 second power outage. Strong fast moving line of T-storms was approaching from the SE, moving NW. Took a bit for the internet connection to come back and power now seems stable. Not out of the rain yet as there's all the stuff back behind the line to pass over yet. West and central TX is getting pounded. If @AClark were still with us I'd be telling her to get her flood boots ready as it's all headed her way. She shouldn't be needing to worry about drought. Both the dogs are lounging out on the family room floor. All of the goats are under the floor of the "to be" goat palace. Well, not all... the boys are in their little hut.


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## Rammy

Did something happen to @AClark or did they just quit BYH?
I got some bad pellets for the chickens once at the Amish place where I get their layer mash. It was completely molded. Fed it to the cows. Probably not a good idea but its a long trip up there and the gas wasted to take it back wasnt worth it. When I poured the bag out you could tell. Mixed it with some sweet feed and cows ate it up. That was weeks ago and cows are fine.
Never had a problem with TSC except once years ago with feed. Took it back and they gave me a replacement. At least you didnt have to throw out the whole bag.


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## farmerjan

Looks like you all are going to get a real storm out of that hurricane Michael.  It is cloudy here but will hopefully burn off in awhile.  We aren't supposed to see any real "rain clouds " from it until this eve as the bands work their way inland.  It looks to be a fairly fast moving one. Hope anyone who needs it gets some rain out of it and that it doesn't sit on top of anyone to get too much.  We are hoping to be able to sq bale some orchard grass early this aft if it will at least get sunny for a couple of hours and burn off the damp.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> West and central TX is getting pounded


They need it. Still pretty far behind for the year. 
I was in San Angelo looking at real estate yesterday. They've had rain this year, but still not what is needed. Lakes are still low except Lake Nasworthy.


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## Latestarter

greybeard said:


> I was in San Angelo looking at real estate yesterday.


So your prospect of selling the present place and moving back to a place/area/environment you more prefer is coming to be? Good luck in finding the ideal property for you!


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## greybeard

I prefer to get & move to the new place first, tho that will mean I'll have to make return trips here to close on this one whenever.  I may just lease this one out.


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## Latestarter

Either way, was more commenting on you finding the right place to go to. If you don't, you still have the place you're already in...


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Either way, was more commenting on you finding the right place to go to. If you don't, you still have the place you're already in...


yep. 
I'm not terribly particular tho. Rough or finished, either will work as long as it already has a house on it and access to water..either well or natural.

(If this house wasn't oversize and over height, I'd look into having it moved but too tall and wide and too far)


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## Latestarter

OK, so I decided to pan fry the goat ribs I got from @Devonviolet . I used a high temp initially to sear them and seasoned with a little accent, onion pwdr, and garlic pwdr, cooked in butter and bacon fat. They came out very tasty and tender. There was very little meat though. Little medallions of meat which I cut out and enjoyed. I've saved the fat scraps for the dogs but there wasn't really enough to make a meal for them either, so I'll add to them and they'll get it as a treat with dinner when there's enough.


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## Baymule

I made lamb shank stew yesterday, simmered the lamb shanks for hours in chicken broth and it made a rich, delicious broth. Tossed in purple hull peas, carrots, potatoes and onion, seasoned it up and it was delicious! I used my usual garlic, salt, pinch of cayenne, but added fennel seed and a pinch of cinnamon.


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## Devonviolet

YUM!  Those both sound good!  

@Latestarter, you are so right about the goat chops being small.  Next time I think I will ask for a whole fillet, rather than chops.


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## Latestarter

The rain band moved south of me in time for the goats to get fed without getting their delicate coats wet. Dumped the rain gauge and had right at an inch. As you can see from the forecast, I don't think that will be the last of it. Pretty high humidity right now. No AC and no heat today. Gonna brave it and not turn the heat on tonight. Supposed to be low 50's, almost into the 40s. Come the beginning of the week, I may have to, either that or fire up the wood stove. I'd kinda like to save the wood stove for when it's really needed though.


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## Mike CHS

We got down to the low 40's last night and the heat did kick on at some point when the house temp went down to 66 which is where it switches on.  Our temps are a little under yours but it's that time so no squawking from me.


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## Bruce

Yeah, looks like Sun, Mon, Tues will test the limits of your house's ability to hold heat. 

We are looking at 40° tonight, no more than 57° tomorrow, 34° Sunday morning. Guess I best plan to pick the peppers and tomatoes tomorrow since we are usually a few degrees colder that what Mr. NOAA thinks. Yep, will be firing up the wood stove again. So far this year I've been burning short ends and scrap wood. Haven't needed "all day and night" type fires.


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## Mike CHS

I'm thinking about putting a small wood stove in the shop since it doesn't take much to break the chill.


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## CntryBoy777

We haven't gotten our electric heaters out and set up, but will probably get to it for tomorrow nite.....we don't open windows here, so the insulation holds the warmth pretty good. I usually wait to light the pilots until the electric heaters need help....I would like to change out these propane heaters with ones that have a thermostat that kicks it on and off....these are either on or off manually, so until it gets really cold ya are always adjusting it.


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## Hens and Roos

We just turned our heat on this morning.....frost on the ground and around 30* outside.


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## Rammy

I turned my heat on two days ago. Curled up in my easy chair right now with a blanket. Yeah, Fall!


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## Mini Horses

Here it was 58 this AM, outside.   Inside 72.  No heat yet.   I use a propane heater when it gets cold enough to need 24/7 as the pilot gives a touch of warmth.  Until then, I have a couple electric heaters that I use to hit the chill in the AM.   My house holds temps well and the electric units are less expensive for this time of year due to little use.    I'm glad to see the low 70 days for now.    OK, maybe for a long time would be nice!   Cold is not my friend.     I have a central unit (heat pump) but use the upstairs so seldom I don't want to heat the entire house. with it.

LS -- glad you got the goat chops cooked.   My unplanned harvest has been quite tasty.   A grow out for the freezer would be an option as taste is good (almost a beef), size of one is fine for a single person BUT -- will go to butcher and come home wrapped!      Just far more acceptable that way for me & my likes.   In fact, I plan to use a Boer for this event to make the results of meat to carcass more suitable & meat cuts more defined.   Although this gal was meaty!


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## Latestarter

I've always liked lamb/mutton. Of course I love venison and elk. I pretty much figured goat would be in that mix somewhere. It was    I've actually recently been giving some serious thought to replacing RJ with a kiko buck (much better parasite resistance) for meatier animals & to have more dual purpose. I think one more set of kids to have the number of breeding does I want, then may take that route. @Devonviolet got herself a myatonic buck to breed to her does to add meat. He's about the size of a nigie... But I figure if the goal is meat, I don't want to breed to a smaller animal. I'd want the same size or larger. If the goal was smaller dairy, then I'd use a nigie and make minis. My girls are REALLY dairy... not a whole lot of meat on dem bones.

So goat chores this morning were NOT done wearing only shorts. Woke to the patter of light rain on the roof outside the window above my head. My two dogs decided they needed to bark their heads off around 4:30 and didn't stop till almost 5. Didn't get much decent sleep after that, but did close the window to help dampen their barking. Right at 59° right now. I did turn the heat on and set to 72. Was damp and chilled after chores, even though the inside temp was registering at 69. Will turn it back off once the chill is gone. Goats must have been hungry as they came out in sprinkles to eat and some even remained out eating the hay I brought them after it picked up to actual light rain. Now they are all back under the to be goat shack floor again. I looked under there and it's actually quite dry.

Today is gray, cool, windy, damp, and just one of those sleep in the recliner type days. Considered going back to bed, but doing so wouldn't bring sleep, so no point.


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## Latestarter

Well, just checked the radar... got some good stuff headed my way for later in the day. Couple hours away at this point I'd say. Edge should be just about at @Baymule or getting very close. @Devonviolet will get it next, then me.


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## Wehner Homestead

Couple quick thoughts on switching to a meat breed buck...be careful using one on FF as the shoulder width can cause issues. Also keep in mind that meat breeds typically have their horns left on so you are looking at an easily 200# buck with a large set of horns. Otherwise, completely understand your reasons.


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## frustratedearthmother

Wehner Homestead said:


> Also keep in mind that meat breeds typically have their horns left on so you are looking at an easily 200# buck with a large set of horns.


Exactly why I bought a baby and bottle raised him - so I could disbud.  But also so he'd be fairly people-friendly.


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## Baymule

Yup, drizzly right now and thunder rumbling. Trip is in the floor, his safe place on thunder monster days. LOL It's cool and damp.


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> @Devonviolet got herself a myatonic buck to breed to her does to add meat. He's about the size of a nigie... But I figure if the goal is meat, I don't want to breed to a smaller animal. I'd want the same size or larger. If the goal was smaller dairy, then I'd use a nigie and make minis. My girls are REALLY dairy... not a whole lot of meat on dem bones


Yes, Danny Boy is about the size of a Nigie right now. But, you have to remember that he is still young. He is only 7 months old. We saw his uncle when we picked him up from the breeder.  He was huge, compared to what Danny Boy looks like now.  Of course I’m going from a cloudy memory, but I would guess that his uncle was at least as tall as Angelica (17 months old and 107 pounds), only MUCH heavier.  I would guess he was at least 180-200 pounds, due to all that muscle.  @Wehner Homestead made a good point about most bucks.  Danny Boy is naturally polled. So, no problem with horns to hurt the does.



Latestarter said:


> Well, just checked the radar... got some good stuff headed my way for later in the day. Couple hours away at this point I'd say. Edge should be just about at @Baymule or getting very close. @Devonviolet will get it next, then me.
> View attachment 53243


We got rained out at farmer’s market.  According to the weather report, we weren’t supposed to have much for rain (other than sprinkles) until after noon.

On our way to the market, it was a torrential downpour.  Then, about half waythere, it slowed down, and I said whew, hopefully it won’t be pouring for us to unload the truck.  Well, by the time we got there, it was pouring again, so the canopy came out first, and got seeet up right away.  Then, it proceeded to pour for the next hour and a half. Everything got drenched.  Finally at about 9:45, the market manager cancelled the market.

Just about the time we finished loading the truck, the rain stopped.  We helped another vendor pack up and load his truck,, and still no rain.  No customers either.  When I started packing up, I was $8.00 behind.  I had bought a beautiful looking musk melon, and hadn’t sold a thing.  As I was packing boxes, one of the market helpers came to my booth and bought some Violet’s (anti-inflammatory) lotion, so I was $1.00 ahead.   Then, the market manager came over and bought some tomatoes ($2.50). So, we ended up making a whopping $3.50.

That was better than the honey guy, next to me, made.  He didn’t sell one thing!  I asked him if he gave out samples (meaning he might sell more if people oculd taste his honey. He said “yes, here.” And he handed me his 1 pound bottle ($6.00).  I said, “Oh, I meant for your customers to taste it.”  But he insisted that I take the bottle. 
So, I went and got him some baked goods.  

So, we have had rain - torrential at times, for most of the day.  As I type this, it continues to thunder and rain really hard out there.

ETA:  I just checked the rain gauge and we have 2” since last night, when the gauge was on 0”.  We had a 1/2” when we got home from farmer’s market around noon.


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## Latestarter

Yup... exactly what FEM said... I won't be using him for show, so horns gotta go! I'll either get a polled buckling or have the kid I'm going to buy disbudded, or buy him as a bottle baby and disbud him myself. He'll only be used over adult does, no yearlings, mine are large breed goats and should present minimal birthing issues. RJ is  at or over 200# now at a year and 1/2. He got two yearling FF's last fall and they both delivered without a hitch.

Sorry you got rained out DV... All the effort you put into preparing, it really has to hurt when you're stuck with perishable product... Course trading some for some honey is a win win.


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## Latestarter

Looks to be clearing as the front is now east of me. Last lingering bits about to pass. Emptied the gauge and surprised to find only an inch. The way it was coming down, had figured twice that. Having streams running across the property also proved a bit misleading. Did make for a great opportunity to wash the feed buckets out though without hauling water


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## Baymule

It drizzled all day and we had bursts of downpour. We got 2 inches of rain. @Devonviolet that sucks about the market. But overall, you have had good weather and have done well, so one bummer weekend might not be so bad.


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## greybeard

I'm hoping the rain stays away from here a few more days..or weeks even. Wife's car is without windshield wipers.


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## Latestarter

Radar is clear but it's been a steady mist since I got up. Can barely feel it hitting you but stand there and you get wet. Got more rain after my post last night. Another wet, gray day. GB, I know you're a ways from civilization, but can't you go get her some new wipers? Or can't she pick some up while she's out?


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## Wehner Homestead

I was going to say...GB you know better than to say that without an explanation!


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## Latestarter

I'm watching the football games and look out the window and April is over at RJ's fence flagging away at him and he's trying his darndest to figure out how to mount her through the fence.  I felt sorry for them both so put on my new slipons and went out and caught her, then put her in the buck pen. He mounted her immediately and she stood for him and arched when done (& here I though I might be too fast... ) Only lasted like 5 seconds.  He's still following her around in there with his face up her butt. I'll leave her there till dinner time then release her to be back with the girls. So I'm guessing first doe done! Think I'll start a kidding thread this year too. She should be due on or about March 13th. Exactly the time frame I wanted to start kidding! So now watch and we'll have a danged winter storm right at that time too.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> GB, I know you're a ways from civilization, but can't you go get her some new wipers? Or can't she pick some up while she's out?


A bit more complicated (and expensive) than that.
For whatever reason (this is the explanation she gave me) she went to turn the wipers off one night last week and turned the knob on the end of the turn signal stalk the wrong way, forcing it past it's stop...don't ask me why she did this after using those wipers for the last 5 years.. This caused the knob on the end of the stalk to jump out of it's 2 engagement "vees"  inside the turn sig stalk, right at the edge of the steering column and the knob then just turned with no resistance. She then (she was sitting in a parking lot in town) decided to see if she could pull the knob off the turn signal stalk and put it back in the correct index............she was able to get the end off, but.................here's where the expensive part comes in............there is a thin and narrow ribbon cable that runs from the switches on the end of the stalk (washer and delay) down into the steering column "somewhere" and pulling the end off broke that ribbon cable. That cable runs to either the washer and delay modules or, to the Body Control Module (BCM) and the 2 aforementioned modules are actually inside the BCM as part of a circuit board, and not actual individual components that can be replaced. The schematic is a bit  hard to understand.

A few years ago, NTSB mandated that an electric failure of US automobile wiper control had to result in a default to "on and low' speed any time the key is inserted and in the run position, so now the wipers will not turn off until the ignition is switched off and key removed.

Temporarily, in order for her to be able to drive in clear weather without the wipers running, I had to remove both wiper arms from their pedestals at the windshield cowl, as the fuse for the wiper motor also controls other 'need to have' functions. 

This, ain't gonna be cheap or easy to fix and will most likely need to go to the dealership.


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## Latestarter

oh... ouch... so sorry. That more or less sucks. Sounds like nothing you'd be able to fix yourself either...


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## greybeard

No, not something I would try with my poor eyesight nowadays, tho I do know how to get around it and still have wipers (but no washer) and wipers would turn off but operate only on low speed. The control runs from the wiper module to a wiper relay under the cowl and it uses real wires between the relay and the wiper motor. I 'could' cut the low speed wire, splice in a jumper back thru the firewall into the people compartment and put a simple on/off switch in, then put the cowl cover back on, re-install the wiper arms and she would have wiper on off functionality..at least until next vehicle inspection comes around in April. 

There was a time tho, I'd haul out the little soldering gun and forceps and splice that ribbon cable back together. Now, not so much.
Poor picture, but you get the idea..The end of the stalk with the wiper controls are in the foreground and arrow is pointing to the ribbon where it exits the stalk and proceeds to points unknown


----------



## Mike CHS

Just caught the tail end of the Bengals and Pittsburgs game and was glad I caught that one.


----------



## Latestarter

Really had hoped the bengals could win that... They don't have a history of doing so and that history is now another game longer. A few games went other than expected/wanted (by me anyway). Jets win was a surprise. Browns loss was a shame. Texans lucked out with 2 interceptions at the end. Miami surprised me. Really thought the bears were better than they played. Missing the game winning FG in OT kinda sucks, but then if Miami hadn't fumbled on the 1 yard line in OT, bears wouldn't have even had that chance. 

Really anticipating the game tonight... My Pats welcome the Chiefs into Foxborough... Could either be a very good game... or a blow out... in either direction.


----------



## Bruce

Somehow I knew there was more to @greybeard's story than just needing new rubber.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Somehow I knew there was more to @greybeard's story than just needing new rubber.


 EEEEEERRRRKKKKKK!!!!!!  That is my mind skidding off into the gutter.....more to the story than just needing a new rubber...…._because the old one broke after his wife twisted on it....._


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Really had hoped the bengals could win that... They don't have a history of doing so and that history is now another game longer. A few games went other than expected/wanted (by me anyway). Jets win was a surprise. Browns loss was a shame. Texans lucked out with 2 interceptions at the end. Miami surprised me. Really thought the bears were better than they played. Missing the game winning FG in OT kinda sucks, but then if Miami hadn't fumbled on the 1 yard line in OT, bears wouldn't have even had that chance.
> 
> Really anticipating the game tonight... My Pats welcome the Chiefs into Foxborough... Could either be a very good game... or a blow out... in either direction.



That's always been Osweiler's hallmark.......red hot or ice cold. (I picked the Bears to win too) 
Interesting that so many of the former Texan QBs seem to do pretty good once they leave Houston. 
Keenum at Minnesota.
Oswieller at Miami.
Fitzpatrick at Tampa Bay.
Hoyer at New England.

They fired the winningest coach they ever had Gary Kubiak, who went on to coach the Broncos to a super bowl win the 2nd year after he was fired from Houston. 

Houston won their game today on defense, not luck. Their own qb got sacked 7 times.
The Bills had no QB that I was aware of....or was that the Buffalo player that threw back to back interceptions? 

Brady, Edelman  and Gronk WIN over that bunch of whiners from the left coast!
(Chief whinny fans and players already claiming the refs beat them with the new roughing the passer rules)


----------



## Latestarter

I believe... it's MHO that the Pats let the chiefs score that last touchdown, as they knew if they put up a fight, they'd never get the ball back and it would end a tie with overtime or an outright loss. The Pats had their way with the Chief's defense basically the whole game. It was of paramount importance that they possess the ball last, to score and run out the clock at the end of the game, and that's exactly what they did. None the less, I thought it was a very good, closely played game. And my team won   So I'm happy. I believe there's a better than average chance they will meet again come January.

I was disappointed in the Bears, they should have played better than that. No excuse for losing to Oswieller... Happy to see the Vikings win their game. Dallas embarrassed the Jaguars... All in all a very entertaining football day.

ETA: I really like Houston. I think they have a franchise QB in Watson. I really have my doubts about their present coach and don't think he's gonna be the one to carry that team to the promised land. I simply don't "get him" with some of his calls and what he's doing... Sometimes just makes no sense. And they damned sure better fix that O line before they lose Watson for another season due to injury.


----------



## greybeard

Intentionally allow a score while playing  the (barely) arguably #1 power ranked team? 
No.
Not even Belicheck is that weird thinking.


----------



## RollingAcres

Wehner Homestead said:


> I was going to say...GB you know better than to say that without an explanation!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> ETA: I really like Houston. I think they have a franchise QB in Watson. I really have my doubts about their present coach and don't think he's gonna be the one to carry that team to the promised land. I simply don't "get him" with some of his calls and what he's doing... Sometimes just makes no sense. And they damned sure better fix that O line before they lose Watson for another season due to injury.


AGREE!!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> And they damned sure better fix that O line before they lose Watson for another season due to injury.


From their beginning, the Hou Texans  has never had an O line...ever. 

O'Brien is an egomaniac. He has no offensive coordinator and insists on calling all O plays himself.


----------



## Latestarter

GB, actually, Belichik has done exactly that on (at least) 2 occasions, one being a loss to the Giants. They allowed the giants to score with very little time left hoping to leave enough time on the clock to make a drive back down to win. The Giants having seen this tactic used before, told their runner to stop short of scoring and down the ball. He did stop, but then fell into the end zone scoring. However, there wasn't enough time left at that point for the Pats to pull it off. 

The previous time to that, they were deep in their own end, I think like on the 2 or 3 and he had the center hike the ball past Brady and out the back of the end zone giving the opponent the safety. The result was a punt that put the opponent deep in their own end. They couldn't get a 1st down and punted back to the Pats, who then proceeded down the field for the winning, go ahead score.

You can research it and see it's true. At least these two episodes.

I feel for ya on the Houston issues.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> EEEEEERRRRKKKKKK!!!!!!  That is my mind skidding off into the gutter.....more to the story than just needing a new rubber...…._because the old one broke after his wife twisted on it....._


BAD girl Bay, BAD!!!! Go wash your brain out with soap!

I didn't say "*A* new rubber", I said "new rubber"! Guess I should have said "inserts" but who knows where THAT would have sent your mind  

I learned the hard way not to say you need new wipers at a specific dealership when they are doing other service. Found out 6 months later that the new OEM rubber inserts didn't fit when I took them out to put on the car. Why? Because the FOOLS had replaced the OEM "wipers" with all the articulating metal parts which were in perfect condition with after market metal that took "generic" rubber inserts you had to cut to length. I think the folks in the waiting room had to cover their ears while I gave the service manager a piece of my mind.


----------



## Rammy




----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> BAD girl Bay, BAD!!!! Go wash your brain out with soap!
> 
> I didn't say "*A* new rubber", I said "new rubber"! Guess I should have said "inserts" but who knows where THAT would have sent your mind
> 
> I learned the hard way not to say you need new wipers at a specific dealership when they are doing other service. Found out 6 months later that the new OEM rubber inserts didn't fit when I took them out to put on the car. Why? Because the FOOLS had replaced the OEM "wipers" with all the articulating metal parts which were in perfect condition with after market metal that took "generic" rubber inserts you had to cut to length. I think the folks in the waiting room had to cover their ears while I gave the service manager a piece of my mind.


You said "insert" and "rubber" all in one sentence .


----------



## Baymule

RollingAcres said:


> You said "insert" and "rubber" all in one sentence .


Yeah.....where's he putting it?


----------



## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> Yeah.....where's he putting it?


He said it didn't fit so....


----------



## greybeard

keep in mind that there are children reading this board....


----------



## RollingAcres

Too late. They are already scarred from reading about @Latestarter sharing TMI


----------



## Latestarter

Oh my... what have I started here... <hanging head in shame>   OK, to all who have perused my thread to this point, please note that all of this explicit (almost) sexual innuendo is in posts made by others. I am innocent (despite being a retired sailor & fathering children), and have no idea what they are talking about or insinuating  I plead the 5th too.

OK now that that's out of the way, I'm officially tired of rain again. Must be the old goat in me... It's been raining at varying intensities all day. Temp is a chilling 47°. From the look of the radar, it's not going to be over any time soon. I know Bay is up "high" and on sand, and I know that DV has/had issues with water flowing and pooling under the house. No idea how much I've gotten here, but it looks like they both will have received more than I. Not real sure how I'm going to feed the goats this evening. They're all out of the rain under the decking. The pellets are going to get soaked and the goats don't like them that way...  ahhhhh well....


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Oh my... what have I started here... <hanging head in shame> OK, to all who have perused my thread to this point, please note that all of this explicit (almost) sexual innuendo is in posts made by others. I am innocent (despite being a retired sailor & fathering children), and have no idea what they are talking about or insinuating  I plead the 5th too.


No idea what you're talking about...I plead "English is not my first language"


----------



## greybeard

It's raining here too..on wife's windshield. At 3:30pm it was 58 deg. 
The cows love it, and I'm fixing to take a 4 wheeler ride around the place since the cool front came in with wind.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Why not get a few more bowls and feed them under the deck, since it is mostly dry under there and the boys are under the hut.....


----------



## Latestarter

Not enough room under there for more than one to get to a bowl. Don't have enough bowls for each to have their own. The boys have an actual shelter to go in, it's the girls that are under the flooring. Just got in from feeding them in a light sprinkle. They all came out and ate. It's cold and wet. Emptied the rain gauge & we've had another inch + a little. 

Hands and wrists are starting to flare up again. Just took some NSAID pain relievers. Really tired! Already dark outside and I could go to bed right now and sleep, but would wake up later and be up all night.


----------



## Mike CHS

Joe - does the weather changes seem to make it worse or is it activity?


----------



## Baymule

Rainy gloomy and cold day. I made venison chili and we ate it for lunch. For supper I made chicken salad with my canned chicken (mean Delaware witches that I didn't like) I cut up green seedless grapes, broke up pecans and added a glop of mayonnaise. Yum. I did laundry, cleaned floors, and thought about all the things I need to do outside. 

I might be high and dry, but 3 out of 5 chicken coops are swamps. The sheep barn and horse barn are both dry


----------



## goatgurl

its wet and cold at my house too.  not looking forward to winter this year.
was reading and catching up on your journal, won't say anything about the windy wipers... gonna leave that alone, lol.                  you might want to check a little further into the mytonic meat animals.  not a mini and will grow nicely and carry a lot of weight.  their looks can be deceiving.  years ago I was raising a lot of meat goats and selling them to a broker.  he often made fun of my "pygmy" buck till I got tired of it and we took my mytonic buck to his place and weighed him side by side with this guys boer buck.  my buck was a full 4 inches shorter than his buck but weighed 26# more.  he was flabbergasted and never made fun of him again.  onion creek has some awesome meat bucks down in your part of the woods.  check out their website
   hope your hands and wrists don't flare up and keep you from finishing the girls barn before winter gets here.


----------



## Latestarter

Don't think it's weather related Mike... Just getting old I guess. Need to get one of those brown clay jugs with a cork stopper and the "good stuff" inside for what ails me.


----------



## Bruce

Granny's tonic!! It did wonders for Mr. Drysdale. 



Latestarter said:


> I'm officially tired of rain again. Must be the old goat in me


Can't cull that goat though. Guess you'll have to put up with him.


----------



## Latestarter

Indeed it did Bruce.  Gonna make sure it has the three "X"s on the jug as well.    Seems I recall Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies had some of that miracle tonic as well. 

Went out to feed the goats this morning in sprinkles of rain. Between the pellets and me going to re-fill the feed buckets with hay, several of the goats went back under the deck. Even after I put the buckets down, they didn't come out so I called out to them. Then they realized they might be missing out on something good and they came running.  Even the most scared goat will brave a little rain when there's food involved. When they've had their fill, they go back over and give a good shake to get most of the water off and then kneel down and go back under the deck. It's still dry under there even with all the rain.

Just looked at the radar and I may get a little break here for a bit as there's a big "hole" in the mass moving toward me and that hole should pass over me. But other than that, the line extends all the way back down into Mexico, so I don't think I'm gonna have any sun and dry weather for quite a while yet.   It's a nice comfy 47°, windy, rainy day here. Beach weather... if you're a seal


----------



## greybeard

I kind of like this weather. Not much rain, just no sun and a bit gloomy but nice and breezy. 
As my brother said, there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad choices of clothing.


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## Latestarter

Your brother sure had an interesting selection of sayings/quotes.


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## Bruce

So clearly your goats just have a wardrobe problem Joe!



Latestarter said:


> Seems I recall Granny on the Beverly Hillbillies had some of that miracle tonic as well.


That would be the Granny I was referencing.


----------



## Latestarter

Forgot banker Drysdale was the hillbillies... I was thinking like pettycoat junction or one of the other similar shows...

Well, come late Friday night or early Saturday morning, someone or multiple someone's lives are going to take a serious change... The Mega Millions is now sitting at 900 million annuity, 513 million cash value. 1/2 a billion dollars cash before taxes.  Since the drawing isn't till Friday night, and it's only Wednesday, it could be higher still by then. I was joking with my son before the most recent draw (667 mil) and told him I was waiting for it to eclipse a billion before I play again.  Might have to go back on that. W/no state tax here, figure 36% fed tax, still 328 mil after taxes for a single winner in a no state tax state. That will pay for a few farm "improvements"...


----------



## Rammy

Im your long lost sister. If you win.....haha


----------



## Bruce

@Rammy is a gold digger! NOW she's interested in @Latestarter (but only if he wins)


----------



## Rammy




----------



## Latestarter

I am sure, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that should I win, I'd have uncountable new friends, relatives, and suitors... Not to mention investment opportunities, charitable requests, money making schemes, and all that goes with becoming instantly rich...

On a brighter note, it's back to raining again... Needed a filling dinner that would "stick to my ribs" so made sausage gravy and biscuits... Yum! :


----------



## Wehner Homestead

That’s definite comfort food!


----------



## Rammy

I was reading about the do's and donts if you won. First rule is, tell no one. Second is to have a trust set up to accept it for you and then put it in a bridge trust so its harder to find out who won it. And dont forget to get good lawyers.
I also saw a story about what happened to.people who did win. Most went broke because of mismanagement, new found friends, new found relatives, or out right killed. So first rule of win, shut up, and tell no one sounds pretty good.


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## Mike CHS

Sausage gravy and biscuits pretty much covers all of the food categories of Good Good and Good


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> @Rammy is a gold digger! NOW she's interested in @Latestarter (but only if he wins)


Something about a man who goes commando, wrapped up in $100 bills, can be mighty attractive...….


----------



## Mike CHS

That one definitely got a laugh.


----------



## Rammy

(snicker)


----------



## Latestarter

And Lord knows It would take quite a few bills to cover this body commando!  

Should the impossible happen, I wouldn't claim it directly. First hire a lawyer or two (tax and liability), a CPA or two with extensive tax background, a team of investment advisers, and then get everything set up beforehand with trust(s), foundations, tax exempt charities, and corporations etc... THEN claim it. Since my 3 kids would be claiming it with me as partial owners of the ticket, they would have to be here and get their stuff all set up in advance as well. No sense in me winning it all then giving it to the kids to be taxed a 2nd time by uncle scrooge... ummm I mean sam...  They'd be 5% winners so get over $25 mil each before taxes. I'd still have over $275 mil after taxes. I don't know if that's enough for me to live the life I desire...  Might be broke inside a year... 

Reality check... Yeah... I would spend some, but think about it... If the winner didn't invest a penny, and spent a million dollars a year, that's $83,334/month, $3,195/day - 6 days a week, every week (I allowed a spending day of rest on Sunday)... it would last 275 years! Invested at a reasonable 1.5% interest, they'd be earning over 4 million a year or 2.6 mil after (36%) fed taxes. They'd have to spend that too in order to be bankrupt after 275 years...  A mere $11,500.00/day, 6 days a week, $300,000.00/month. 

So here's the real mind bender... I'm 61. I don't expect to live past my mid 80s. No male on either side of my family ever has. So IF I were to win (273mil:1 odds) Figure I have 25 years to spend it all. That's 11 million a year for 25 years NOT including any earned interest on investments. That's almost a million dollars a month...

Sure would be nice...


----------



## Baymule

Well, you've crunched all the numbers. What would you buy first? A new truck?


----------



## Latestarter

A nice long vacation...


----------



## Mike CHS

I will never know but if we were to win the only things we would want is to take care of our kids first and then buy some acreage with a lake access.  We have everything we want at our place except for a place to fish and also call home.


----------



## Rammy

Baymule said:


> Well, you've crunched all the numbers. What would you buy first? A new truck?



I was thinking the same thing!


----------



## greybeard

Rammy said:


> I was reading about the do's and donts if you won. First rule is, tell no one. Second is to have a trust set up to accept it for you and then put it in a bridge trust so its harder to find out who won it. And dont forget to get good lawyers.
> I also saw a story about what happened to.people who did win. Most went broke because of mismanagement, new found friends, new found relatives, or out right killed. So first rule of win, shut up, and tell no one sounds pretty good.



No matter how hush hush you are about it, the old saying always holds true. "You can't hide new money".


----------



## RollingAcres

Y'all know @Latestarter is going to tell us if/when he wins.


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> Something about a man who goes commando, wrapped up in $100 bills, can be mighty attractive...….


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> Well, you've crunched all the numbers. What would you buy first? A new truck?


First I would give to a church I attended years ago that I always liked.  And I am not a big churchgoer in general.  Then  a farm, so we could have things all in one place.  Then, retire and get the stem cell treatments and see if they would work. Then, let my son retire so he could try to get the treatment he needs to get over the headaches etc that the workman's comp is fighting from his accident 1 1/2 yrs ago.  Then help out some family members, and several people who have had a rough time.  Then find some charities that I could support. Then give to some friends so they could enjoy a few things in life too. 
Then maybe hire some help and a vacation to see some of the US, and one place I have always wanted to see, New Zealand, to see their grazing systems....


----------



## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> Then, retire and get the stem cell treatments and see if they would work.


A friend of mine (in her mid-late 40s) had the stem cell treatment for her knee 3 months ago and was having great results until she had an auto accident and seriously injured the same knee. Accident happened only 2 weeks ago so they don't know yet what true effects the stem cell will/has had on the original problem.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> made sausage gravy and biscuits... Yum! :



I love that type of eating!  Good old cast iron skillet fare.
So, once you win, still gonna cook??    Yeah, I would.

That's almost TOO MUCH to win for one.   Really, look at the crunching you did and then, remember this, it wouldn't make you happy.   Now, a mil or 3 would be nice.   That much for each kid...beyond that,  it's too much to handle.  That's why people who win BIG get into so much trouble by just trying to spend it all.

The fighting over $$ is huge...whether a big lotto or a big death benefit.   Just brings on bad feelings.    Having enough to be comfortable but sane, that's best.

Use CONTROL when you get the check -- email me for my bank account number.     I'll be waiting.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> That's almost a million dollars a month...


You can use that "trickle down economics" theory and hire a ton of people to work for you.



Latestarter said:


> A nice long vacation...


Save some for an animal caretaker while you are gone. I doubt the airlines or tour companies will want you to bring 2 dogs and a bunch of goats.



Mike CHS said:


> I will never know but if we were to win the only things we would want is to take care of our kids first and then buy some acreage with a lake access.  We have everything we want at our place except for a place to fish and also call home.


You could build a nice lake right on your current property!


----------



## Latestarter

Y'all are funny!   Actually, Jan hit the nail pretty much right on the head with what she'd do. I'd hope to make a lot of people's lives better/easier. Mine first and foremost. Not worried about my kids as they'll be well set up for life and have a 2nd helping when I'm gone. I have a few family members that I'd be helping out and a few who won't see a nickle. Some friends and acquaintances will also see benefits... A "Leg up" so to speak. I'd have no intention of trying to spend it all. Jan wants a farm, I'd prefer a ranch (and a private island). Of course I'd accept/consider the help, guidance, and advice of the lawyers and advisors I'll be hiring as to how to go about all these things. Yup, I'll still cook, do my own laundry, bathe myself (well... maybe I'll accept assistance there ), do most of my own yard work and such. I mean most of the common every day stuff would remain the same.

Sorry to hear about your friend there GB... That sucks that the accident may have ruined what she as trying to repair. Hope that's not the case for her.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, it was at 900 million this morning. Now it's at 970 million and I expect it will clear a billion before the draw tomorrow night. Lot of folks must be hurting to be throwing their dollars at it. 1st estimate was ~ 866 mil and last draw was 667 mil. That's a pretty dramatic increase. So cash option right now is a cool 548 million. Should be about 575 at a billion...

On another subject entirely, refilled the chicken water jug today and noticed that one of the buff o's has developed a comb and wattles  So perhaps she's finally reaching POL? Sure would be nice to have a few of them laying over the winter... The other 4 still have baby combs... Maybe she'll push them along as well.


----------



## Mike CHS

Our hens had slowed down a bit but we increased the length of time the light stays on in their coop and they are back to what they were laying.


----------



## Rammy

I put up a light too and trying to adjust it to come on and off at certain times. Right now it comes on about 530 and goes off at about 7am, then comes on again about 5pm til 830. 
It was not going off til about 1030 pm so I backed it down. So far not getting alot of eggs so might have to get the 22% protien pellets too.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I may have a ticket come Saturday and if I were to win the "sharing" would be limited to those that are talking to me during this present day period of time....not that I wouldn't help others out some, but any that approached me after that would receive a great big Nope. I would stop the disability and buy a moderate RV and travel around visiting the members here all at my expense....and when we found an area that we really like, we would pay cash for the property and start afresh....leaving everything we have here for a certain person to deal with as it would be all she would get....there are plenty of people that are in really tough situations and as we come across them, we would give them a hand up. I would still wear jeans and a Tshirt and just be who I am....we are not big spenders, so there would be plenty to help many here out...I'm not into notiriety, so as silent and quiet as I could be is how I would help others....


----------



## farmerjan

One suggestion for the chickens and lights/timers.  Set it to come on in the morning early and let them go to roost naturally at night; no lights in the evenings.  It is easier on their cycles and they will be able to go to roost as it is getting darker and get settled rather than to have the lights just end quickly.   Having had layers as well as the purebred show birds, and having worked on a small egg laying operation as a kid, have found that it seems to be the least disruptive.  Morning light tends to come up quicker and twilight tends to fade out slower.

So have it come on at 4 am and off at 9 or 10 am. 4 to 4 is at least 12 hours minimum daylight .


----------



## Rammy

Good idea. I will fix it tomorrow.


----------



## Bruce

I have heard the same as @farmerjan - no extra light at night, let them go to roost naturally. Wake them up in the morning if you are going to have winter light. Of course it gets a bit screwy in the darkest part of the year. Sundown at 4:15 PM, sunrise at 7:30 AM. The light, to get 14 hours, would have to come on at 2:15 AM.


----------



## Mike CHS

We tried it just in the morning and we had chickens roosting everywhere except their shelter and we lost hens. We will keep doing light at night and at least they go in to the coop when it gets dark outside.  We do it not so much for the eggs but rather have them in a secure place at night.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Lot of folks must be hurting to be throwing their dollars at it.


Hurting may not be the reason. We pretty much never play the lottery. Not going to this time but last time the Powerball was about a billion, both DW and I independently bought a ticket just because is was huge and "different". If we were hurting, we'd probably play it all the time hoping for a "mere" million or two and be poorer for the effort.


----------



## greybeard

Usually don't play but might this time for poops and giggles. Only thing I would be interested in buy would be a bigger stake in an energy company stock tho IF SpaceX were a public traded company, I'd jump on it.


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> if I were to win the "sharing" would be limited to those that are talking to me during this present day period of time



We are talking to you during this present time.


----------



## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> We are talking to you during this present time.




How ya doin' Fred?


----------



## farmerjan

Boy, everyone is everyone's FRIEND on here right now and "talking" to everyone.....

And yes, I do play the lottery.  Not everytime, not every week, but whenever I feel like it.  One year I tracked my spending and winnings and made about $25. to the good.  At least in Va they do put a bunch towards education.  Besides, I figure I don't drink, don't smoke, don't hardly even chew gum,  so what I spend on the lottery is my "vice".....  other than being a farmer and that is the biggest gamble there is!!!!!


----------



## RollingAcres

farmerjan said:


> Boy, everyone is everyone's FRIEND on here right now and "talking" to everyone.....


 

When a person wins the lottery, that's when they find out they have lots of "friends" and "relatives". But when you're broke and don't have a pot to p*** in, all of a sudden those friends and relatives disappear.

I don't normally buy any lottery tickets. Once in a while I'll get a scratch off ticket.


----------



## farmerjan

Mike CHS said:


> We tried it just in the morning and we had chickens roosting everywhere except their shelter and we lost hens. We will keep doing light at night and at least they go in to the coop when it gets dark outside.  We do it not so much for the eggs but rather have them in a secure place at night.



@Mike CHS  that is very interesting that your chickens did not return to the coop in the evening as the sun started to fade.  Have had chickens for over 50 years,  and never have I had problems with them returning to "home" ( the coop)  in the evening unless they were traumatized by something chasing them or such.  One of the reasons I always let my show birds out in the late afternoon, alternating pens, so they could get some free ranging, and that they would go back in.  Now some of the game birds would go for a tree, but not my laying hens and not the purebreds.  
The turkeys would go for a tree as soon as they could fly up there. 
And guineas didn't have a lick of sense to go in anytime, they would sit on a rail fence out in the open and the owl would come pick them off if I didn't chase them in.


----------



## RollingAcres

Mine would always go back to the coop to roost as well. Every once in a while like @farmerjan said, if they are traumatized, I'd find them roosting on top of my truck in the carport.


----------



## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Boy, everyone is everyone's FRIEND on here right now and "talking" to everyone.....


Well if any of you win, I won't be your friend until you are broke again. Just in case you get all uppity


----------



## Rammy




----------



## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> Well if any of you win, I won't be your friend until you are broke again. Just in case you get all uppity


 Isn't there a saying that folks who get instantly rich don't change... all the folks they "used to know" do? And see, Bruce is already changing and none of us have even gotten rich yet! 

More rain headed my way... About to move over @Baymule then be here over me in an hour or so. Sure was nice seeing blue sky and sun this morning, even if it was only for a short time while doing chores. Made it really clear and easy to watch the coyote saunter across the back pasture inside/at the fence line. Called Mel, and started moving toward the back of the fenced pasture pointing at it and talking to him, hoping he'd see it and know/learn that it's a potential threat and to be watched for. Instead, he started running around me, trying to play and watch to see what my next move was going to be...    At least he barks at night... I hope he knows what he's doing... Then to top it off, I hear the thundering herd coming as that's what they do when I go anywhere other than their night pen area.  They "assume" I'm going to cut down a nice juicy leafed tree for them...   Just what I wanted... all the goats down at the back of the fenced pasture so a coyote can get a clear look at them... 

More rain coming up behind that mass, so gonna be a wet day... again...


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Isn't there a saying that folks who get instantly rich don't change... all the folks they "used to know" do? And see, Bruce is already changing and none of us have even gotten rich yet!


Well if you don't get all uppity, I'll still be your friend even if you don't go broke  I don't want even part of a penny of what you (might) win. 


Sure sounds like you need an LGD there Joe! One to teach Mel what he is supposed to do.


----------



## Rammy

Mel guards. He guards biscuits, cool indoor floors, food, mud puddles..........


----------



## Latestarter

Actually, he doesn't guard his food, bones, treats, biscuits... I have to feed him separately or he just lets everyone else eat it for him. OK, technically he does growl at the goats if they get to near him when he's eating a bowl of real meat & gravy mixed with his food though. Not like they would eat it, they just want to sniff and see what he's eating. And he HATES getting his feet wet, so no problem if you want any puddle on the property... You can have them, he doesn't want them. Trying to wash mud off his feet is a MAJOR evolution and there's never a guarantee I'll succeed... 

Went out and got $20 worth of tickets for the 1 billion + drawing tonight. Maybe I'll get one number... hope at least it's a mega ball. That'll be worth $2.


----------



## RollingAcres

Good luck with your tickets!


----------



## Rammy

Im not playing the lottery. I wouldnt win anyway. Good luck with your tickets. Hope you get lucky.
If you do you can buy Mel some doggie boots so he wont get his delicate paws wet. And then you can buy a LGD to guard Mel against the mean goaties trying to "steal" his food.And maybe an air conditioned guard dog house.


----------



## RollingAcres




----------



## Latestarter

Have my homeowners insurance due the first of the month... ~$1,900. Just got my property tax bill... Haven't opened that yet but sure it'll be in the $1,900 range also. Vehicle registrations are due in December/January, and I believe my next vehicle insurance (6 month) is due early February. The holidays are fast becoming a very unhappy time of year for me...


----------



## Rammy

I feel your pain.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya will have to get a savings account and get started putting it in there each month at the beginning of the year, then when it comes due you'll already have it on hand....before the holidays....


----------



## Latestarter

Hmmmm Yaknow Fred, best laid plans... Seems my retired pay runs out either before or just at the same time as my month... Things should get a lot better about this time next year.


----------



## Bruce

Rammy said:


> If you do you can buy Mel some doggie boots so he wont get his delicate paws wet.


I'm not sure they make those boots in Mel's size!



CntryBoy777 said:


> Ya will have to get a savings account and get started putting it in there each month at the beginning of the year, then when it comes due you'll already have it on hand....before the holidays....


A new use for the "Christmas Club" account! I'll have property taxes due mid next month as well. Over $2,333 on our old house that we are renting out and $2000 on this house. Three payments a year on each.


----------



## Mike CHS

That reminded me of one other thing I don't miss about living in Charleston.  Our taxes there on a house in a subdivision with small corner lot was $3800.  Taxes on our little farm is $631.


----------



## Latestarter

I'M A LOTTERY WINNER! Got 2 whole numbers on different lines out of 10 chances. At least one of them was the mega number so I won 2 bucks back out of 20 spent.  Reporting still as "pending" so don't know about next drawing. Numbers are a little uncommon so if no winner, next pot could eclipse the record PB pot of 1.5 billion.


----------



## Bruce

No winner. Better buy $50 in tickets this week Joe!


----------



## greybeard

15 winners. 14 won $1 million and there was one  $1 million winner.
Next estimated jackpot to be $1.6B with cash option paying out $904 pre tax. After tax, the take will be around $600 million.
By far, most people got this:


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Regarding property taxes, my property taxes in McKinney, TX, were $9000/yr.  Homeowner's insurance was $3500.  Now, my property taxes are around $1800/yr and homeowner's insurance is around $900 IIRC.  Makes a big difference in the cost of living!

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Rammy

Shoot....I only have 3 1/2 acres and it costs me $750 a year. That was last year. We got a notice its going up. Havent gotten the tax papers yet. Cant wait to see what it is now.


----------



## greybeard

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Regarding property taxes, my property taxes in McKinney, TX, were $9000/yr.  Homeowner's insurance was $3500.  Now, my property taxes are around $1800/yr and homeowner's insurance is around $900 IIRC.  Makes a big difference in the cost of living!
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


Yep, and you don't have to wear shoes anywhere in Arkansas either...and let us not forget about the plus of that Razorback football team.. walk in an establishment, yell out SOOOOEY! and it's free drinks and the wimin can't keep their mitts off of you.
(so my brother always told me)


----------



## Baymule

Well Joe, it looks like you are still poor like the rest of us.


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## Latestarter

Only until next Tuesday evening Bay! Then I'll be a wannabee billionaire!  Even the annuity on that is ridiculous... MM does 26 payments and that works out to 61.5 mil/year before taxes and just under 40 mil a year after fed taxes... That qualifies as a decent lottery jackpot in and of itself, like winning a pot every year for 26 years. So you get to go broke every year, a couple of times, and still have many years left to try and "learn your lesson"...


----------



## Baymule

Meanwhile, back at the doublewide, we're singing...…

Honey they're bringin' out a TV crew
They want to do a story 'bout me and you
They'll be stringin' up bright lights in the backyard
There'll be cameras on their shoulders
We'll be readin' cue cards
Leave them long johns on the line
If the kids look dirty, that'll be just fine
They're gonna put us on
Lifestyles of the not so rich and famous
They want to see us go hog wild
Over beans and barbecue
They want to see my Fairlane up on blocks
The holes in all our socks
Talkin' 'bout lifestyles of the not so rich and famous
Tell 'em bout your mama and the bowling league
Tell 'em bout junior and his baseball team
I'll show 'em my nine point buck on the wall
I'll blow a few times on my new duck call
Let 'em see ol' blue how he sleeps all day
We'll bring out the Elvis TV trays
They're gonna put us on
Lifestyles of the not so rich and famous
They want to see us go hog wild
Over beans and barbecue
They want to see my Fairlane up on blocks
The holes in all our socks
Talkin' 'bout lifestyles of the not so rich and famous
Yeah our idea of high class livin'
Is sittin' on the porch on a cool night
Our Champagne and Caviar
Is an RC cola and a moon pie
I'm talkin' 'bout lifestyles of the not so rich and famous Lifestyles of the not so rich and famous


----------



## Latestarter

I don't typically listen to "this kind" of music... More into the classic rock genre...


----------



## Baymule

Maybe so.....but this kinda fits the sit-choo-ate-shun here...…


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Regarding property taxes, my property taxes in McKinney, TX, were $9000/yr.  Homeowner's insurance was $3500.  Now, my property taxes are around $1800/yr and homeowner's insurance is around $900 IIRC.  Makes a big difference in the cost of living!
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


High rent district for sure!



Rammy said:


> Shoot....I only have 3 1/2 acres and it costs me $750 a year. That was last year. We got a notice its going up. Haven't gotten the tax papers yet. Cant wait to see what it is now.


"only" 3.5 acres and $750 a year? Our rented out house with > $7K annual property tax is on a 44x100 lot. Funny thing is years back it was "low rent" but the neighborhood is on the corner of a bay in Lake Champlain and people with more money than brains started paying way over market to buy a place, rip it up and build new. Location, location, location.


----------



## Rammy

Guess it always comes down to money.


----------



## greybeard

Rammy said:


> Guess it always comes down to money.


and faster horses...........and younger women............and older whiskey.
(at my age, I sometimes get 'em mixed up....but just for a little while.)


----------



## Bruce

Faster whiskey, older women and younger horses?


----------



## greybeard

if you have to ask, you ain't been there...............yet


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> I'M A LOTTERY WINNER! Got 2 whole numbers on different lines out of 10 chances. At least one of them was the mega number so I won 2 bucks back out of 20 spent.  Reporting still as "pending" so don't know about next drawing. Numbers are a little uncommon so if no winner, next pot could eclipse the record PB pot of 1.5 billion.



Since you "won", you and @Bruce can no longer be friends....Sorry you are still poor like us! LOL

My taxes and property insurance are escrowed in my mortgage payment. But it seems like every year the mortgage company sends me something that states there's an escrow shortage.


----------



## Bruce

Not true RA! Joe didn't win near enough to turn him into a snobbish rich guy.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Not true RA! Joe didn't win near enough to turn him into a snobbish rich guy.


Just wondering...does one have to be rich to be snobby?


----------



## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> Since you "won", you and @Bruce can no longer be friends....Sorry you are still poor like us! LOL
> 
> My taxes and property insurance are escrowed in my mortgage payment. But it seems like every year the mortgage company sends me something that states there's an escrow shortage.



The bank did that to me too. I just ignored it because they would send me an adjustment letter to tell me how much it was now. Doesnt matter anymore since my house is paid off.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Just wondering...does one have to be rich to be snobby?


Oh heck no. Some people are like that no matter how much or little they have. It is "all about me" to them.


----------



## RollingAcres

I was tempted to buy a lottery ticket this morning but ended up not buying it.


----------



## RollingAcres

So y'all don't have to pay School Tax? Just property tax and homeowners' insurance?
My property/township tax is about $2000, School tax is $3400 and homeowners insurance is $630/yr


----------



## Bruce

Oh yeah, we pay all those but the school tax is in with the property tax bill. Our house insurance is nearly $1,300/year


----------



## RollingAcres

Yeah the school tax we pay in Sep, property tax bill is usually due in Jan.


----------



## Mike CHS

I much prefer our rates here in Tennessee.


----------



## Bruce

I bet!! I still don't know how taxes can be so cheap in TN.

We pay Nov, Feb and May 15th


----------



## greybeard

RollingAcres said:


> So y'all don't have to pay School Tax? Just property tax and homeowners' insurance?
> My property/township tax is about $2000, School tax is $3400 and homeowners insurance is $630/yr



Schooltax
Property tax
Road tax
and a couple other minor ones included with the same bill, 'due' by Jan 31 of each new year, tho many people wait until later...while others, pay before Dec31 of the current year to get a credit/writeoff on their federal income tax for that year..

All combined here, it averages about $1000/20 improved acres...depending what kind of improvements you have and whether or not you have an 'ag or timber exemption'..
Srs (over 65) can elect to pay in qtrly with no penalty or interest if they also have homestead exemption on the same property.


----------



## Latestarter

I have school, property, road, hospital, community college, and a few others all included in my bill. The total is separated into 2 separate payments, one to the county for their portion and the other to the city for all their stuff.

Spent the afternoon adding additional piers to the future goat mansion. Should be able to get that finished up tomorrow and the floor put on/finished. That of course depends on the weather... "they" are saying 20% chance of rain early, 50% chance later, and 100% over night. At least this time it's only supposed to last one day. We'll see. Fridayonward is supposed to be beautiful fall weather; temps in the high 60s low 70s and sunny. I can deal with a little of that right about now.

Good luck to all who are participating in the redneck retirement fund this evening. Should you be determined "fully vested" (the winner), you'll have the option of selecting a 1st annual payment of ~24 million dollars (before taxes) that will increase by 5% annually for 29 further annual payments. That would make the final payment ~99.2 million before taxes. (averages out to ~53 million a year)

OR, you may select to cash out said retirement fund in full at a value of approximately 913 million. After federal taxes of 39.5%, you would have ~552,365,000.00 to do with as you wish.

If you blow 52 million and the change, leaving 500 million to invest, at a rate of 3% (available in short term certificates) compounded monthly, you'll earn ~15 million a year in interest. So after taxes, you could spend ~ 750,000.00 a month and never tap into your invested principal...

Life would be good.   no... seriously... it would! Trust me, I used to work for the government.


----------



## Mike CHS

Taxes had a lot to do with our choice of states to live in. Sales tax is high but most of the higher amounts that we spend aren't taxed since they are farm related.  Years ago when the state first started getting into what was called the "Education Lottery" actually does use most of it for education.  Community College for High School grads is free and they recently added a new program that lets any adult that does not have a degree get free Community College or Trade School.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> while others, pay before Dec31 of the current year to get a credit/writeoff on their federal income tax for that year..


Non starter as of the passage of the tax bill last year. Standard deduction went up starting this year so most people won't be writing off local taxes or mortgage interest anymore. I rush paid the taxes for last year that were due this year. Really hate that they sprung it on us at the last minute so no time to actually plan.



Latestarter said:


> So after taxes, you could spend ~ 750,000.00 a month and never tap into your invested principal...


I would hurt my head trying to figure out how to spend that much in a year let alone a month!


----------



## Latestarter

Bruce said:


> I would hurt my head trying to figure out how to spend that much in a year let alone a month!



You see, that's the beauty of it... you don't HAVE to spend it... you can just reinvest it/roll it over to add to your principal balance and just keep getting richer and richer.


----------



## Mike CHS

I would still go out and feed my critters every morning and that is priceless.


----------



## Latestarter

Did better than usual... got 2 numbers and the mega ball on 1 line... that's worth 10 bucks, plus a mega ball on another line, so 2 more bucks. Sorry friends... no free monetary gifts for you from me. The numbers are weird... I expect at least 2 winners. We'll see. Can't even imagine if there are no winners... the next drawing will be over 2 billion dollars... My guess would be about 2.5 billion, ~1.5 billion cash option, almost a billion after taxes... Can't even wrap my head around that...    

Saw somewhere folks saying there were 7 million dollar winners off the last MM draw... There WERE 7 winners of 1 mil (and 2 winners of the powerplay) on the last powerball drawing, not the MM drawing. I haven't figured out how to find out the winner breakdown of the megamillions drawing... I haven't found it on the MM site.  
OK... found it!  http://www.megamillions.com/winning-numbers/10-19-2018

Turns out on the last MM drawing there were actually 15 - million dollar winners and 1 - megaplier winner. "Match 5 + 0: Winners in California(1), Florida(1), Illinois(2), Missouri(1),New Hampshire(1), New Jersey(1), New York(4), _Texas(1-non-Megaplier plus 1-Megaplier)_ <neither was me > and Virginia(2)."  There were 289 folks had 4 balls + the mega ball and 35 more with the megaplier on that.

Next will be the powerball sitting at 620 million, 354 mil cash option. If nobody wins that pot, it too will go over a billion. Will find out about that one tomorrow night.


----------



## Baymule

Good luck Joe. We can say “we knew you when.....” LOL Meanwhile back to work on the goat barn. After today the weather is supposed to cooperate.


----------



## Bruce

Who do we know in SC??

I guess now you have to buy a Powerball ticket. Hardly worth it though, only half as much as last night's MM.


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> Who do we know in SC??



I dont know anyone in SC. But I bet the winners will find they have ALOT of new friends they didnt know they had!


----------



## Baymule

An official from the SC Lottery office said on the news this morning that they do not release the names of people who win the lottery, in order to help protect them. I think all states should respect the privacy of the winners.


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> An official from the SC Lottery office said on the news this morning that they do not release the names of people who win the lottery, in order to help protect them. I think all states should respect the privacy of the winners.


AMEN!!!  I just wish I knew them!!!!


----------



## Bruce

Soooo, since it is a multi state lottery could one move to one of those states that do not disclose names the day after they found out they won and then turn the ticket in there at some point in the future?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Mike CHS said:


> I would still go out and feed my critters every morning and that is priceless.


I'm  with you on that one, may be nice to have a windfall of cash...but taking care of that much sounds like a job to me...i rather shovel goat berries and be content.


----------



## Latestarter

You have to claim any winning ticket in the state it was sold in. Whether a resident of that state or not, you will be required to pays any taxes due in that state as well, including income tax..  So, should you decide to participate Bruce, I suggest you cross the border into NH to buy your tickets, though VT will still tax you on your winnings regardless.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah they will. Darn, no back door on that anonymity bit.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Who do we know in SC??


I don't know..someone is $900 million+ richer but That SOMEONE touched me inappropriately! Just remembered it & calling my attorney right now.


----------



## Rammy




----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> I don't know..someone is $900 million+ richer but That SOMEONE touched me inappropriately! Just remembered it & calling my attorney right now.


----------



## Latestarter

Most of you know that I'm originally from New England. Just watched the Boston Red Sox close out and win the world series in 5 games, this last in the LA Dodgers house, 5 to 1. Very well played game. My football team (Patriots) plays tomorrow night in/against Buffalo. I expect them to win that game. There were some good games today and some not so good.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> Most of you know that I'm originally from New England. Just watched the Boston Red Sox close out and win the world series in 5 games, this last in the LA Dodgers house, 5 to 1. Very well played game. My football team (Patriots) plays tomorrow night in/against Buffalo. I expect them to win that game. There were some good games today and some not so good.


New Englander myself.....way to go Red Sox  live in the south, root for my home teams always,


----------



## Baymule

Joe, are you going to be outside today working on your goat barn? it's a bee-YOO-tee-full DAY!


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> There were some good games today and _some not so good_



???


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Joe, are you going to be outside today working on your goat barn? it's a bee-YOO-tee-full DAY!


Maybe depends what today's weather is like in New England?.


----------



## Latestarter

Got a bit shy of 2" of rain. came down real hard and real fast for a while right before dark. After feeding the goats I squished on down to the creek and it was up just below the top of the banks. Gonna be running for a day or two I'm sure but the front is now past me and slamming LA, moving toward MS. Lots of tornado warnings up and I hope nobody gets killed. The tail end of it all is still down in Greybeards neck of the woods. Couple hours before it clears him yet. Heard from Devonviolet and they're doing OK and have about the same or maybe a bit more rain than I got. Baymule was also dealing with rain earlier but would have been out of it before we were.

@Mike CHS I expect you're going to start seeing the meat of this come morning. Hope it isn't as bad as it looks to be for you. Should be clear and start drying out here once again come tomorrow. Next chance of rain is next Monday. Temps are supposed to be substantially lower as well for the next few days. I have to pay my homeowners insurance today, due the first. Will probably pay the first 1/2 of the property taxes next month and the 2nd half the beginning of January. Also have my PO Box to pay for and vehicle registrations and inspections. Very expensive time of year for me...


----------



## Rammy

We started getting rain here about 8pm central last night. Put all my rain buckets out for water for the chickens and cows. 
Going to work right now and its pouring down the rain. Wish I could stay home! Some places they are predicting 4" and flooding. Hope no one gets it too bad.


----------



## Mike CHS

So far we have been getting some steady rain with most of the heavy rain moving a bit north of us.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> The tail end of it all is still down in Greybeards neck of the woods. Couple hours before it clears him yet.



It had pretty much stopped here just before midnight, but we took it hard much of the day and right up to the witching hour.
_"When air masses collide......._"

Some of the south, especially Ky, is on track to set a new record for annual rainfall.


----------



## Latestarter

Got quite the shock this morning when I went to feed the goats. April was waiting for me at the night pen gate, which is more or less normal. What wasn't normal was that she was on the OUTSIDE of the gate on the pasture side  I have no idea how she got out.  There are no breaks or gaps in the fence, nothing disturbed, and she has no scratches or anything on her... When I put them back inside the pen last night after they ate their pellets, I could have sworn I counted/saw all of them inside before closing the gate. I typically feed them inside the pen but since it's down to dirt, it's a muddy mess right now so fed them outside last night. With the rain last night, Mel spent the night in the back yard vice the pasture so he had access to the deck to stay dry. Oh well, no harm, no foul, and no coyote losses. 

Dumped another inch of rain from the gauge this morning so I figure the total would have been around 3"  It's a recliner type of day. Used to hate having to work on days like today. This type weather just makes me want to hibernate and sleep.


----------



## Bruce

Sure glad April was OK!
You know, as we get older, counting gets harder  And maybe when you were counting she was just outside the fence and you really couldn't tell.


----------



## farmerjan

Rain is supposed to be heading our way but looks like it may go more north and we might get more "showers" than real hard rain.  That's okay, we could do with about 2 weeks of NO RAIN.

  That last stretch we had, from Sat eve through the following Thursday, we got alot of hay made.  Total nearly 1500 square bales, and about 25 4x5 rolls.  We worked out butts off, he cut it all on Sat and Sunday, I tedded and raked it all over the spell from Sunday for the stuff cut early on Sat, through Wed., and did raking inbetween.  I cannot help much with the baling as far as riding the wagons to stack so Michael had to do all that.

  He delivered sq 200 bales on  Mon night, stacked 200 in a barn for a neighbor who just died 2 weeks ago in a freak accident but his wife still has the horses there, sold and stacked 100 bales on a guys truck  and then loaded and delivered 200 more bales on Wed eve.  We got the last baled on the wagons, and the rest rolled and the wagons and the balers in the barn by 9:30 Thursday night.  Then he went and got 200 bales from a friend who had no where to put it in, on our trailer to get delivered to a customer of ours.  I think he got into bed around 2 or 3 several nights (mornings).

Plus his boss was out of town on vacation, so he had to work until at least noon each day.  They are working 7-3:30 right now but it will go back to 8-4:30 after the time changes. I had to test cows Thurs and Fri mornings and Sat eve.  We were both pretty tired out by Sat.  It did rain on Friday and we got nearly an inch so it was perfect to get it all in the barns on Thurs night.  But it was a push. 

Don't see a 4-5 day window for the next week  so no hay but there is poultry litter to be spread and some late seeding in the sorghum/sudan fields that is overdue to be done.  We also got in 14 cows and 6 new calves this past Mon eve, moved them to the barn, tagged and worked the calves,  moved 3 pairs to a pasture and the ones without calves into the "calving field.  The 3 with heifer calves will go in a close by field temporarily,  until after hunting season, and then we will move them to the place we stockpile grass for the winter.  We will run about 30-40 head there through the winter. We have found that we do better with putting all steer calves & mommas, at one place and all heifers at another when we start out.  Then when it comes time to sell, we can get a load of steer calves at one place and not have to do alot of sorting for the first load.  Not the perfect plan, but it has done pretty good for us so far.  Since we are not registered, we don't pick and choose as  closely about bulls matching cows.  We do try to keep "like" or similiar aged cows in certain places and don't  let the older cows go to pastures that are real hilly.  The younger ones are athletic enough to do it, but the older ones can get the easier places to travel.  Got about 15 more calves that need to be worked, and then matched to their mommas, and then moved, and have about 20 at another place that need to be gotten in and brought to the barn to be done too.  But that will be done slowly over the next month.  Can't move the cows with heifers to the place until after Dec 1st;  and then we will bring home our 15-18 month heifers and put the bull with them to get early fall calves.  I'd actually like to get the bull in now and then get them moved in about a month. We'll see.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Got quite the shock this morning when I went to feed the goats. April was waiting for me at the night pen gate, which is more or less normal. What wasn't normal was that she was on the OUTSIDE of the gate on the pasture



I had that type of shock yesterday morning.  I KNOW the doe was in her normal pasture and there she was out of it and next to the buck!   GREAT!   No idea where/how she got out but I put her wagging tail in another pen, added the buck I wanted to breed her.   Put hay & water in while they were romancing and I went to work.  She was ready to come out when I got home, back to her pasture and she's been there since! 

It's that time of year!  Stinky bucks and hussy does.  My 9 month buck is almost as big as she...he's gonna be a big guy, like his dad.   LOL, he was tired of her when I got home.     Believe I have 5 or 6 more to go....then 5 in Jan/Feb.   A couple were bred 3 weeks ago. I wish they'd plan this while I am "off" work   Total of 13 girls.


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## Baymule

Joe I am tired of rain. We are supposed to have a couple of sunny days coming, have to get back to work on the chicken coop. Even though we had some good weather earlier in the week, I was wiped out and sore from having too much fun at the wedding last weekend. BJ and the groom had the good sense to sit down and watch their wives let it all hang out on the dance floor for nearly 3 hours. I had a great time, but I sure was sore all over and paid for it. I talked to the bride today and she was sore too. That made me feel better, I got 23 years on her. LOL LOL


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## Latestarter

I hear ya Bay... Was supposed to be sunny here today and was overcast, damp, windy and cold all day. Come nightfall, the clouds mostly broke so maybe tomorrow will be the sunshine promised. Supposed to be right around 70° next 2 days then a chance for some more rain. I have a VA appt on the 6th. My son will be flying in for a week (to help me) on the 7th.   Man do I have plans to put his butt to work! When I send him back home I aim to have him so burned out he'll need to sleep for 48 hours.  Got a bldg to finish and fencing to plant. Ground certainly aint hard right now!  It squishes when you walk on it. digging post holes and pounding T posts will never be easier...


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## Baymule

That is great that he is coming to help you. You will get a lot done. Just don't do anything stupid that will stove you up in the meantime. Eat right, get plenty of sleep, say your prayers, stick your left hand in stump water at midnight while swinging a dead cat around your head with your right hand chanting "I is strong. I is a barn builder. I is a fence builder." It also helps to wear purple underwear.


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## Rammy




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## farmerjan




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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Man do I have plans to put his butt to work!


Besides Bay's excellent suggestion, I would add putting in a request for a week of no rain. DS might be like a goat and not able to be out in the rain.


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## farmerjan

Got .2 inch last night from what y'all had the day before, but then got another harder rain after 3 pm this afternoon.  I did not try to go out to look at the rain gauge after I got home from errand in town and stopping by the stockyards to see how prices were doing.  NOT GOOD on prices.  They are off from .10 to .40 per lb for the feeder steers.  It's going to be a long hard fall.... after a long wet difficult summer.... Maybe next year will get better.
Between one of my farmers 33 yr old daughter getting killed in a horrific farm accident and then the neighbor getting killed in a freak accident at a Jousting/medieval reenactment demonstration and exhibition  only a week later, on top of all the difficulties that my son is still dealing with from the work accident nearly 1 1/2 yrs ago, and my joint problems, we have had a tough 2018.
  My son is now dealing with the workman's comp guy who is saying he has had enough rehab and they cut it off. After nearly 2 weeks, the headaches are back with a vengeance and he had trouble with losing some of his eyesight the other night that had subsided with the continued therapy he'd been going to.  He has been going to some extra training in order to become a trainer in VDOT for some of the stuff all these supervisors have to continue to learn.  It was a way to "move up" a bit, with less physical stress.  But these headaches from the head trauma are un-bearable.  Here he is trying to better himself, live with some of the problems, and still be a productive member of society and work; not be a leech and live off the disability system... and the workmans comp is fighting it.  I would like to go shut that guy up.... the doctors are doing all they can to fight it too as they have seen improvement.. but this guy is a class A A$$hole.
Now, this afternoon we got some real strong rain, winds for a bit, and it is supposed to continue through the morning at least.  Then 2 decent days and then more wet.  He was trying to spread some poultry litter on the recently frosted  sorghum - sudan grass field yesterday afternoon,  to be able to get the wheat in the ground for a cover crop.  The chain broke in the bottom of the spreader and they shoveled off about 2-3 tons of litter by hand last night, to be able to get to the bottom so the chain can be fixed/replaced.  Also tore up some thin spots in the metal bed so that will have to be replaced..... Another costly set back in both time and money.
Good friend of ours, 40 ish,  was in a wreck last night.  Kid in a pickup went to pass her driving  their 1 ton dually truck with the horse trailer;  on a double yellow line.... pulled out,  hit a car head on and the resulting crash came around and hit the truck and trailer.  They are pretty much banged up, horse is okay, truck looks to be totaled and trailer has some damage, person in the other car not too bad but kid in truck that pulled out is in hosp.  Charged w DUI on top of everything.  Sorry, I have no sympathy for him.  There was no reason to try to pass there, they were right near the turn off into the horse facility,  double no passing yellow line... luckily another friend behind her saw it all.... We rent the "big farm" from her mom as that is the widow of our farmer friend that died of cancer a few years ago.
Damn these kids and the drinking and driving (and the ones texting) and such.  Well he was 19 but still a kid in my book.

Seems like it is never ending this year.


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## Latestarter

So sorry Jan... Hope the year ends well/better for you and a better one comes along in 2019.


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## Mike CHS

Jan - that is a lot to handle and I truly hope your load gets lighter soon.


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## Rammy

Sorry your having a tough year.


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## RollingAcres

Sorry to hear Jan. All that tough times can really you down quickly.


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## Mini Horses

@farmerjan.   You've had more than a bad month!

Hope your son gets an appeal going on the A$$hole decision.


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## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> So, a bit about me:
> 
> I retired from the US Navy back while in FL, in June of 2000 after 24 years of service. I moved to Colorado to join my brother and help him with his mortgage business as a trainer and loan officer. I love the outdoors, mountains, hunting and fishing, and where better than here? After he drove his business into non-existence, I went to work for a builder's mortgage company and worked there for a few years. Then I got remarried and became a "stay at home husband" to help her and her son adapt to life here in the US. After that divorce was final, I went back to work in QA in a manufacturing environment. I quit there in Sept 2015 and am now officially retired.
> 
> I had been renting homes when I first moved out here to CO for a number of reasons, but finally bought a place right at the peak of the real estate bubble. Several years later, after it had lost 1/3rd of it's value, I lost it to foreclosure and went back to renting. I bought my present place with the idea that I wanted to have more space, and chickens, and goats, and a garden. Well, I got the chickens, and then got bees, and then in preparation for the goats, got an LGD. Then, I quit my job, decided to retire, and quickly realized that the cost of living here was too high, the influx of people was too high, the taxes were too high, the regulations and laws were becoming onerous, and that I didn't have near enough space to do what I want to do. So, back at the end of last year (2015) I started looking at the possibility of moving. Through a lot a research I determined that for amount of land at lowest cost, lowest taxes, lowest cost of living, lowest population, etc. my best bets would be either TX, or KY.
> 
> TX has no income tax, KY does, but, they don't tax military retirement or social security.
> TX has very high sales tax @ 8.05-8.25% (county/city adds on top), KY is fixed 6% state wide.
> TX has very high property tax @ 1.5-2%+ depending on county, KY is <1% anywhere I'd want to buy.
> TX has no inheritance/estate tax, KY doesn't either if estate goes to direct 1st tier relatives.
> Land prices in rural areas is about the same in both places.
> 
> So, I decided when I sell this place, I would move to the best piece of property I could get in either place. Right now, that seems to be KY. Which as an aside is a plus as I don't do well with high heat, though I admit I'm doing less well with cold as I get older.
> 
> I have a very social butterfly neighbor who when I told her my plan to move, introduced me to a woman who says she'd like to buy my place, at my asking price, for cash, and agreed with my time line of wanting to close in May/June time frame. She is presently living in another neighbor's garage... The only thing is, this woman needs to get the cash from an aunt, and hasn't done so yet... nothing in writing, everything verbal.
> 
> A very good friend and I went to dinner at a Chinese restaurant a week or two ago and my fortune was something along the line that I was about to come into a windfall. Earlier today, there was a dump truck that had gotten stuck in the dirt driveway across the road from me. I went over to offer to help. I met the owner, who rents that place. In chatting with him and several other neighbors, he found out I was moving/selling. He came over to my place and rang the doorbell and offered to buy the place, cash, right now and wanted to go get the cash to show me he had it
> 
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> I told him the price the other was going to pay for it, and told him I had already agreed to sell to her for that price, but since then values have increased, so if she didn't come through, I'd absolutely sell to him, but the price might have to be a bit higher (there's another place in here on the market right now for 45 thousand higher than what I'd agreed to sell for - similar but different - I couldn't get that much). He told me he just sold 2 properties and has ~ 1 million in cash right now waiting to be spent. I told him the price just went to 450K (then told him I was joking).
> 
> He came back later to drop off his contact info & told me he'd be willing to close next week, he'd cover all closing costs including title, pay cash at my asking price (to the other woman), and let me live here rent free for as long as I'd like...
> 
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> I said It wouldn't be more than 6 months. He agreed to put that in writing - 6 months, free rent. I took him through the place and he said he'd probably like to move in and live here. He asked if I would leave the chickens and he'd pay me for those separately.  Man, I know I told the woman she could have it first, but all real estate contracts must be in writing and she's done nothing yet, nothing's in writing, and she doesn't have the money... I don't know how I can pass this offer up...
> 
> So, I think I may be closing on the sale of this place by the end of this month, and then have 6 months to figure out what will work best for me. I want a piece of property with at least 10 acres, live water (with fish even better), mix of pasture and woods, room to shoot firearms and hunt on my own land, obviously rural land, a mortgage payment of half what I have now or lower, purchase price 160K or less.
> 
> It just so happens that I HAVE found a property in KY with 30 acres and TWO homes on the property (one a rental, the other a newer manufactured home) with several pastures already fenced, two ponds, one natural spring fed, that I could easily afford, and the rent income would cover the mortgage I'd need to take to buy it.  If I sell this place I'll be going to visit/inspect that one very soon.
> 
> So that's where things stand at the moment. Life has sure gotten exciting very fast as I've gotten older. So though I thought that the "start" of my farming future (though later in life; hence my screen name) started in the fall of 2013 when I bought here, it appears that was a "false start" and the real thing is about to commence  And now I have a journal to document it in.


I don’t know if I can read all 570+ pages of your journal or not. But I wanted to be sure to thank you for your years of service in the Navy. My husband is also retired from the military after 21 years. It take a very strong person to stay in the military that long. You certainly do have a very interesting introduction to your journal. You seem to be on a very interesting journey. Good luck with your future and enjoy the journey.


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## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> Well, I've played an every-other-day game of phone tag with the jerk potential buyer and haven't spoken to him yet. Since it's the 6th and there's no contract, I have to say closing on the 10th is not gonna happen. I have the gut feeling that the guy is gonna be a wash out, no problem. SO... I'll just continue spiffying up the place and get it listed.
> 
> Spent all day Wednesday outside doing yard work (mowing, weed whacking, chain saw work, trash/wood/log hauling) and had intended to finish it up yesterday... Well, it was hot - mid 80s, I only slept for 2 hours the previous night, and I was tired and sore, so ended up spending the day yesterday in the recliner sweating... I really hate being immobile and sweating... So, since it's supposed to be back in the 80s again today, I went ahead and hooked up the swamp cooler and got that working Ahhhhhhhh... Have a couple of house fans going as well to ensure air movement throughout, and the house will be perfectly acceptable! The dogs are enjoying it... they're laying right in the main air flow and snoring   Wish I didn't need to run up the electric and water bill, but I'll take that over sweating any day! I'm thinking my choice of KY over TX might have been well thought out
> 
> So, I think I'm about to go drag out the lawn tractor and go finish up the mowing before the real heat of the day hits. I have more chain saw work to do, but don't really feel like playing lumber jack today. Maybe later this evening...
> 
> Since I don't have a contract, I guess I'll just leave this journal for a while until I have one and can continue the journey it's supposed to be logging/sharing...


What’s a swamp cooler? I’ve never heard that term before.


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## Latestarter

A standard air conditioner is used when it's hot and humid. It uses a pressurized fluid that travels back and forth changing state from liquid to gas. That change makes one side of the system very cold and the other side very warm.  When the "cold side" is inside the house, the interior home air is pushed across those cold coils to produce the chilled air we all enjoy so much if we live in a warm/hot & humid place. A side benefit is that the humidity trapped in that warm air condenses on those cold coils and becomes water, which drips down into a catchment system and is drained away. The heated fluid is run through other coils outside where a fan draws outside air through to cool the fluid back down, transferring the heat back to the environment causing the gas to return to liquid form.

With a heat pump system, the fluid is run in reverse, which brings the warm side inside, which releases the heat inside and the cool outside. Heat pumps therefore have a "defrost cycle" on the outside coils to keep them from icing up/freezing, and blocking airflow which destroys the heat pump's efficiency.

A swam cooler is pretty much useless in a hot damp environment because it works on the same principal as human sweat. It draws air across a moist barrier, which adds humidity to the air being pumped into the environment. It works very well in hot DRY environments and is substantially less expensive (and much simpler equipment, set up, maintenance, repair, etc.). There's a basin of water at the bottom, and pumps that pump that water up to the top of the unit. The water is then sprayed out over very permeable "sponge like" sheets of material held vertically on the sides of the unit (shaped much like the exterior unit of a central AC unit or heat pump). The water is pulled downward by gravity, back into the basin. A squirrel cage fan inside the unit draws outside air into the center of the unit through the wet material and then forces that moisturized air into the house. That air because of the moisture feels 10-25° cooler than the outside air temp. Since cool air sinks, most folks with a swamp cooler will leave several windows on an upper floor "cracked open" to allow the heat (hot, dry air) to escape as the cooler air is blown into the home.

Consider a fan blowing against your dry skin on a hot day... Now, spray yourself with water and stand in front of the same fan and you'll catch a chill. A swamp cooler doesn't _need_ all the duct work a typical central air unit needs. Many folks put the air delivery portion into the home through a ground floor window, much like a window based AC unit. In places where they work well, you'll often times see what looks like a central air unit, mounted on a platform on the roof (this installation may or may not use typical ducting). Or, you may see a similar sized unit standing on a platform or blocks in front of a window.


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## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> A standard air conditioner is used when it's hot and humid. It uses a pressurized fluid that travels back and forth changing state from liquid to gas. That change makes one side of the system very cold and the other side very warm.  When the "cold side" is inside the house, the interior home air is pushed across those cold coils to produce the chilled air we all enjoy so much if we live in a warm/hot & humid place. A side benefit is that the humidity trapped in that warm air condenses on those cold coils and becomes water, which drips down into a catchment system and is drained away. The heated fluid is run through other coils outside where a fan draws outside air through to cool the fluid back down, transferring the heat back to the environment causing the gas to return to liquid form.
> 
> With a heat pump system, the fluid is run in reverse, which brings the warm side inside, which releases the heat inside and the cool outside. Heat pumps therefore have a "defrost cycle" on the outside coils to keep them from icing up/freezing, and blocking airflow which destroys the heat pump's efficiency.
> 
> A swam cooler is pretty much useless in a hot damp environment because it works on the same principal as human sweat. It draws air across a moist barrier, which adds humidity to the air being pumped into the environment. It works very well in hot DRY environments and is substantially less expensive (and much simpler equipment, set up, maintenance, repair, etc.). There's a basin of water at the bottom, and pumps that pump that water up to the top of the unit. The water is then sprayed out over very permeable "sponge like" sheets of material held vertically on the sides of the unit (shaped much like the exterior unit of a central AC unit or heat pump). The water is pulled downward by gravity, back into the basin. A squirrel cage fan inside the unit draws outside air into the center of the unit through the wet material and then forces that moisturized air into the house. That air because of the moisture feels 10-25° cooler than the outside air temp. Since cool air sinks, most folks with a swamp cooler will leave several windows on an upper floor "cracked open" to allow the heat (hot, dry air) to escape as the cooler air is blown into the home.
> 
> Consider a fan blowing against your dry skin on a hot day... Now, spray yourself with water and stand in front of the same fan and you'll catch a chill. A swamp cooler doesn't _need_ all the duct work a typical central air unit needs. Many folks put the air delivery portion into the home through a ground floor window, much like a window based AC unit. In places where they work well, you'll often times see what looks like a central air unit, mounted on a platform on the roof (this installation may or may not use typical ducting). Or, you may see a similar sized unit standing on a platform or blocks in front of a window.


You put that in terms I can understand. We have a cabin/trailer house in upper Wisconsin. For some reason the air there is nowhere near as humid as it is here, nearly two hours south of there at our home. We do get some pretty hot days in the summer. Meaning the temp get warmer 85 degrees. Sometimes as hot as 105 degrees. On days that get super hot the morning usually starts off quiet muggy but dries by 10am or so then the humidity is gone for the rest of the day. Do you think a swamp cooler might possible work there? Our cabin is comfortable but probably not what social services would consider a livable state. There is no running water in the cabin, but the well does work. It had been vacant for 9-12 years before we bought it. The electrical in there was Jerry-rigged in very dangerous ways. We have run a couple of temporary wires through half of the place so we have a couple of lights, and can run small appliances, otherwise we use extension cords for the rest of the house. We don’t have a working toilet there as well. The sewer didn’t work and was rerouted in an illegal way so the toilet would drain into a hole in the back yard. So we don’t use that. We are able to run a couple of portable air conditioners with our temporary wiring. But they will only make a very small area cool. I’m wondering it a swamp cooler may work better on the extremely hot days where the humidity is really low. Also, what would happen if it were used on a slightly humid day? Would it freeze up, not work at all, or be inefficient? We don’t have heat in there as well. So right now it’s only used from April through early September.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> That air because of the moisture feels 10-25° cooler than the outside air temp.


The air actually IS cooler.  When the moisture laden air from the swamp cooler hits the hot dry air of the room, the moisture immediately begins evaporating and as part of the evaporation process, the temperature of the air in the room begins to drop.The latent heat of vaporization. A thermometer will show the actual temp drop and many swamp coolers have a thermostat nowadays. Works just like the thermostat on a central unit..when the temp in the rooms gets down to the set temperature, the swamp cooler fan turns off. 


Carla D said:


> Meaning the temp get warmer 85 degrees. Sometimes as hot as 105 degrees. On days that get super hot the morning usually starts off quiet muggy but dries by 10am or so then the humidity is gone for the rest of the day. Do you think a swamp cooler might possible work there?



Only if the relative humidity is less than 50-60% at the times you want to cool the air.
You will also want to know what the "dew point" is and there are charts available on the internet for the average dew point and average humidity in your area at different times of day, each day all during the year.
Swamp coolers do not work well if dew point is above 55 degrees.


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## Rammy

Carla D said:


> I don’t know if I can read all 570+ pages of your journal or not. But I wanted to be sure to thank you for your years of service in the Navy. My husband is also retired from the military after 21 years. It take a very strong person to stay in the military that long. You certainly do have a very interesting introduction to your journal. You seem to be on a very interesting journey. Good luck with your future and enjoy the journey.



Read the journal. Its very interesting. LS has alot of good stories. Only took me 4 months to read it.


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Eat right, get plenty of sleep, say your prayers, stick your left hand in stump water at midnight while swinging a dead cat around your head with your right hand chanting "I is strong. I is a barn builder. I is a fence builder." It also helps to wear purple underwear.


    

I’ve told you this before, but you did it again . . . YOU CRACK ME UP!!!


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## Latestarter

A swamp cooler is a lot less expensive to run since it is basically a small water pump like on an aquarium and a squirrel cage fan attached to a motor by a belt to turn it. It generally has two speeds and since the only time you'd really need/use it would be during the peak heat of the day (when it's very dry and low dew point as well), I'd think it should work pretty well. The squirrel cage fan (depending on the size of the unit you get/build) will push a lot of air. It's the same basic set up as the squirrel cage on a furnace. So if you installed it in an opening near the center of the trailer, then opened windows at either end, I'm sure you could make it like a fridge inside (comparatively speaking) if you wanted.


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## Devonviolet

@farmerjan, I am so sorry to hear about all the awful things that are happening in your life and around you!  

How awful that your neighbors lost their daughterk in a horrible accident and then a week later her father died in a reenactment accident!  

And your friend’s accident, getting hit when pulling a horse trailer!       I, too, have no sympathy for people getting injured while driving drunk.  My brother was killed by an illegal alien, drunk driver going 80 mph in the city.  He was so drunk, he didn’t realize he was running a red light, and never even put his foot on the brake - he broadsided my brother’s car and killed him instantly. But, not before my brother saw him coming!  What a horrible way to die. That man’s cousin also died that night, and he only got 7 years, for killing two people.  He got deported, but you and I both know he turned around and came right back into the land of opportunity!!!  

I’m so sorry to hear about your son’s pain/migraine issues.  Too often these days, the insurance companies are allowed to direct healthcare decisions, based solely on their desire to not pay out on an insurance claim, after they think they have paid enough. They don’t care about the patient at all!  It’s all about the bottom line.   I can’t help but wonder if my Violet’s lotion might not help, if applied to his injury site.


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## farmerjan

Thank you to all who sent me "sorry it's been so tough" type messages.  @Devonviolet , the farmers daughter who was killed is a family I have watched the kids grow up;  but not related to the neighbor killed in the medieval re-enactment accident the following week.  Two unrelated things.  
But again, thanks to all.  I was certainly not trying to evoke  sympathy....just venting a little about how I will be glad to see the end of 2018 and hope that 2019 will get better.

On a "lighter note"   Had another  D$%#D  deer run right into me on the way to work on Wed morning.... it is dead, and I "only" sustained the loss of a headlight and parking light lens.... there are so many deer here that the hunters had better get some...I am tired of having to reduce the population on my way to work.  Got one this spring but it dented the fender and busted part of the grill and all that plastic.  Just glad it was the little ranger...  Of course I also did blow the engine in the subaru forester in Sept..... 289,000 miles.... but it is being rebuilt and I should have it back an a couple more weeks.  Friend of my son likes to work on them, he is rebuilding it.... $1500 or so which is a lot better than buying a newer car.....

Hey @Latestarter   thanks for letting me "hijack" your thread....

We got some rain yesterday eve and last night. Sprinkles on the way to test cows at 4 a.m. this morning but sun is out now.  2  plus days sun and dry... but rain in forecast for next week.  Want to try to get the lawn mowed and some leaves bagged for the chickens for the winter... We hope to try to chop the 14 acres grain sorghum tomorrow and get it bagged for silage for the winter....then get the seed in the ground...????


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## Bruce

farmerjan said:


> Friend of my son likes to work on them, he is rebuilding it.... $1500 or so which is a lot better than buying a newer car


That is a super deal!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

farmerjan said:


> Seems like it is never ending this year



Miss @farmerjan,

Just now reading your post.  I am so sorry for your and your son's troubles.  I wish there was something I could do besides offer my sympathy, like come up there and help.  You and your son work so hard, and it would seem that should mean something.



Carla D said:


> What’s a swamp cooler? I’ve never heard that term before.



Miss @Carla D,

My experience with a swamp cooler was from the time I stayed with my grandparents back in the mid 1960s in the summer in northeast Texas, not far from where @Latestarter is now.  They had a swamp cooler (also called an evaporative cooler), and it worked great, no matter the outside humidity.  Maybe you can see one demonstrated some time.  The cooler will need a regular supply of water, so you will need a well pump or some other arrangement to supply water as it consumed from the basin of the cooler.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Carla D

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @farmerjan,
> 
> Just now reading your post.  I am so sorry for your and your son's troubles.  I wish there was something I could do besides offer my sympathy, like come up there and help.  You and your son work so hard, and it would seem that should mean something.
> 
> 
> 
> Miss @Carla D,
> 
> My experience with a swamp cooler was from the time I stayed with my grandparents back in the mid 1960s in the summer in northeast Texas, not far from where @Latestarter is now.  They had a swamp cooler (also called an evaporative cooler), and it worked great, no matter the outside humidity.  Maybe you can see one demonstrated some time.  The cooler will need a regular supply of water, so you will need a well pump or some other arrangement to supply water as it consumed from the basin of the cooler.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


Hello STA. Once I figured out they were also called evaporative coolers I looked at Menards, HomeDepot, etc to see if they had them in our area and they do. So they must work this far north. While our cabin doesn’t have plumbing in it yet, we do have a working well and brand new septic system. He just have to redo the plumbing and the electrical in it. I bet my husband can figure out how to have water running to the system without any problem. He seems to be a lot like latestarter. Able to fix anything and a little something about everything, and really good at some of the things. I will definitely look into this. As an evaporative cooler doesn’t hardly cost anymore than a portable room air conditioner in our area and which we used the last two years at the cabin. Thank you for the information.


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## Mike CHS

A fried of mine in Florida had a shop with big double doors on both ends.  He put one of those at one end of the shop and let it run while he was milling some wood and didn't use any other tools that day.  After that one day he spent several weeks getting the rust off of all of his cast iron machines. It kept the temp nice though.


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## Baymule

@farmerjan big hugs to you my friend. I hope you have a better year next year.


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## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> Well, I am no longer in possession of a BA roo. While filling the feed trough for them, the roo flogged me and got me good on the right forearm in 3 places. I was bleeding quite well (pressure is obviously adequate). He has attempted to numerous times in the past, and had been schooled about the stupidity of doing so. Very glad (as I was bent over to fill the feed trough from a 5 gal bucket) that he didn't get me in the head/face.
> 
> This time he paid with his life.
> 
> I always watched him when I opened that enclosure and he appeared to be minding his own biz in the back corner, then came out of nowhere.
> 
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> 
> I no longer have to worry about entering that enclosure. Since I am not hatching nor selling eggs for same, it's no great loss. I who profess that there's no reason to keep a mean roo, have followed my own advice. Ahhh the many times in my life's past that I wish I had done so...
> 
> So, this is life on "the farm" and I don't even have a legitimate farm yet... I have one other "mean" roo who has been schooled several times. The next time he gets big and brave, he'll pass from this life as well. Nothing like a face full of angry feathers, beak and spurs. no more.
> 
> Now I need to go out and mow/weed whack and do general yard/pasture stuff before the weather turns to crap later today for the next three days. We need the rain... my grass is brown, but the weeds haven't stopped growing, nor the wild alfalfa, which is almost 2' tall and beginning to flower.


Roo- a bad ass rooster? The only other thing that came to my mind was a kangaroo. But kangaroos aren’t native to the US last time I checked. Nor do the have feathers or a beak and spurs. I’ve never heard a rooster being called a roo before. But, I’m learning you see things differently than the average Joe, you’ve had some interesting experiences, and your terminology/vocabulary has some colorful words in it. I’m loving your story so far. Only 200+ pages to go.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

maybe a Black Australorp "roo"ster.


----------



## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> Actually, didn't want to say anything and jinx it...  Highest interest at this particular moment is: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/15026-Us-Highway-259-N-Omaha-TX-75571/2098194956_zpid/  Have to get this place listed and sold first!


Nice place. I can’t wait to see if you got this place. It even has a tractor, tree stand, and paneling (projects). What more could a guy like you ask for?


----------



## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> Thanks everyone. I don't know if this was the right place to spew... Maybe I should journal (privately?) or something... But the feedback is nice and sometimes you just need to get it out. Bruce, when diagnosed at 4 years old, she was put on tegretol... worked so-so for many years till a future doc determined that her epilepsy (being general, non specific with no precursors), tegretol shouldn't work on and was the wrong drug (pre puberty to puberty). So they changed meds. This has continued over 30+ years and there has yet to be a med or combo that will completely control her seizures. As a late teen early 20s young lady, she went over a year with no seizures so we got her a car and she was thrilled... Until she had a seizure behind the wheel and went head on into a boulder. Better than the alternative at the time... over a "cliff" and down into a residential area. So no more driving... at all... unless it's a life or death sit for someone else and she's the only possibility to save them. Anyway...
> 
> The reason she wanted to go to Maine was to be near her Grandfather (mom's side) who is in his late 70s now. Her GM died from Alzheimers 4-5 years ago. When she was born to her single mom, they lived with her GPs for her first 4 years and her GF is very special to her. When she discussed these plans with me I pointed out that where she would be going there is virtually no jobs, no public transportation, and she knows the support she'd be able to get from her mom. Her aunts have their own issues that she really does NOT want to get entangled in... nuff said there. Her GF has a new live-in girlfriend (that my daughter likes very much) now spends 1/2 the year in Maine and the other 1/2 in FL. He won't be able to, and shouldn't be asked/expected to "be there" for her like she would need, and is getting older... everyone knows how that story always ends... I know she loves him and misses him. The other alternative would be for her to live in one of the decent sized cities there where she could hopefully be close to a workplace, (Portland/Bangor/Augusta) but then she'd be out of reach of the family she's going there to be near.  Anyway, reason I think ruled and she changed her plans. She just resigned her lease for another year. Now that she's actually had a seizure at work, I wonder if her ongoing employment there is compromised...
> 
> So... what options am I left with? I can go ahead and move and let her be an "adult" and fend for herself... she's going to have to at some point... we all know how my story is going to end as well. I can stay here (gonna have to find another job, at least part time for the $$... man I do NOT want to do that) and put off any "farm animal" plans for a few more years. Or I can move to a place that will work for me, but is close enough to civilization that she can follow and still have me as a support base if/when needed. I know there's a "master plan" at work for me here... Just wish I knew what it was. And another day begins.


You are a stand up dad!


----------



## Carla D

Baymule said:


> Not far from Tyler......
> http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/13856-CR-353-Winona-Texas-75792/3346511
> 
> http://www.landsoftexas.com/Smith-County-TX/all-land/under-275000/5-30-acres/page-2/
> 
> a little farther out, Wood County
> 
> http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/1142-CR-2360-Alba-Texas-75410/3312362
> 
> http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/1034-County-Road-3144-Quitman-Texas-75783/3287887
> 
> http://www.landsoftexas.com/property/2310-C-R-2330-Mineola-Texas-75773/3280380


Baymule, you have a great eye for properties. It looks like you can get more land and house in TX than you can in WI.


----------



## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> Thanks folks! GMTA! I had every intention of doing exactly that... building a berm as a backstop, but I STILL wouldn't want to be shooting in the direction of another farm/family/pasture/etc if it could be at all avoided. So hopefully there will be some nice dense timber/woods behind the berm to further act as a bullet stop


You really are a thinker and planner. There doesn’t seem to be much missing in your quest for the perfect property.


----------



## Carla D

Ferguson K said:


> Haven't had a chance to read but here's that listing.
> 
> http://www.har.com/536-glendale-holly-rd/sale_14844924


Nice place. Wow!


----------



## Mini Horses

Carla, enjoy the posts!   LOL


LS -- I'm thrilled your DS is coming in to help & visit.  In about 10 days we should see some does in "their" new home.    Ahhhh, a son who helps is a wonderful thing!

Uhhh, drink cherry juice, eat cherries, white willow & no organ meats, anchovies, scallops, asparagus, mushrooms, cauliflower, dried beans & peas, etc....until this I over. You'll feel better for it.


----------



## Latestarter

Roo is just short for rooster... The one referred to was indeed a BA, and he died for his transgressions.

So I got up before the crack of dawn this morning to make sure animals were taken care of and to leave plenty of time to drive to Shreveport. Got onto I-20 East and it turned into a danged parking lot. I mean just that... zero movement... after about 30 minutes of that I hit the breakdown lane to get to the next exit so I could move over to 80 East, which parallels I-20 and I could see no back up and vehicles flying east bound. Get over to 80 and start heading east, get just past the next I-20 connection and come to another parking lot.  Posted speed is 55... why is THIS road stopped as well. You'd think they had the president coming through or something... Waited there for 15 minutes and at that point was already late for the lab appt so called the number and left a msg that I wasn't going to make my appts due to the blocked east bound roads.

Banged a 180 and started heading back the way I'd come and just for grins, headed to the I-20 connector I had most recently passed and no back up there so continued to the actual overpass and the east bound lanes were clear, so jumped back onto I-20 E and headed to the VA. Got there 45 minutes late for the labs and just about right on time (15 min early) for the actual appointment. Got both accomplished. 

Heading home there's a place I need to make a left turn from a 4 lane state hwy to a 2 lane county road and just passed the intersection there's a rail crossing. Well, I get in the left lane and there's no place to turn as traffic is stopped cause there's a train parked blocking the crossing.  It's not moving at all... After 2 light cycles I bang another 180 and head back to a Subway and get a large club on Italian with bacon added for lunch. I'd really wanted to wait to eat till I got home since I have 1/2 an over roasted turkey in the fridge...  But, I figured I had no idea how long that train was going to stay parked there... About 1/2 way through the 1st 1/2 of the sandwich, the train started moving. By the time I was full, there was no further traffic back up and I was able to make the left turn and continue home. There ought to be a law against trains parking like that and blocking main roads.  I couldn't finish the sub... too much food... THAT was a first... 

Just glanced out the back window and CC was flirting with RJ through the fence. OK, good enough! Put on the slip ons, went and caught her up and brought her over and put her in with the boys. No hesitation whatsoever... RJ was climbing aboard her as she was trying to walk into his domain.  He fell off her backside when he was done but I didn't see her arching her back though there was "drippage" coming from the appropriate receptacle... I left her in with him. I'm sure he'll get her at least once between now and dinner when I remove her. So she'll be due about 4/5/2019.


----------



## Bruce

Man, bummer of a day there Joe! I also go nuts if I'm in the car and not moving.

Poor goats, talk about a quickie! Tell them to take their time and enjoy the process


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Got onto I-20 East and it turned into a danged parking lot. I mean just that... zero movement... after about 30 minutes of that I hit the breakdown lane to get to the next exit so I could move over to 80 East, which parallels I-20 and I could see no back up and vehicles flying east bound. Get over to 80 and start heading east, get just past the next I-20 connection and come to another parking lot.  Posted speed is 55... why is THIS road stopped as well. You'd think they had the president coming through or something... Waited there for 15 minutes and at that point was already late for the lab appt so called the number and left a msg that I wasn't going to make my appts due to the blocked east bound roads.
> 
> Banged a 180 and started heading back the way I'd come and just for grins, headed to the I-20 connector I had most recently passed and no back up there so continued to the actual overpass and the east bound lanes were clear, so jumped back onto I-20 E and headed to the VA. Got there 45 minutes late for the labs and just about right on time (15 min early) for the actual appointment. Got both accomplished.



Just one of several reasons I don't bother with the VA at all. No matter how much it might save me, those trips into Houston would make me ready & wishing for the graveyard.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter,  why is it every time i get or read a post from you, there is a great big ad pop up that has some delicious  food on it...what's  up with that ?  I have quit smoking as of a year ago in august, and i certainly  don't  need anymore weight gain....the ads drive me crazy !


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

@Latestarter's revenge.


----------



## Latestarter

That is too funny! I stopped smoking in Sept 2010. I had tried numerous times prior without success. Finally a very smart person said to me stop trying to "quit"... Your whole life it's drilled into you to never be a "quitter" so if that stuck, you'll never succeed. She said I should decide to stop and go from there. It worked. Now unless the topic comes up, I don't even think about smoking and find it hard to imagine why I started in the first place. Wasted a LOT of money over 40 years...


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Niooooo tell me it isn't  so....is this pay back for the posts i made yesterday ?....i m sorry...........well kind sorry


----------



## Rammy

No your not.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, she didn't seem real sincere.


----------



## Latestarter

Just back from the airport with DS. Stopped on the way home for a "real" (as you can get down here) Philly cheese steak sub. It was actually quite good and not all that far off the track form where I had to drive anyway. Been a long time and I really enjoyed it.


----------



## Bruce

You gonna get him up at sunrise and work him until sunset??

Have a really good visit with DS.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Rammy said:


> No your not.





Bruce said:


> Yeah, she didn't seem real sincere.


Dang yankee... you caught me...both you and Rammy......


----------



## farmerjan

Hope you have a great visit, and work week,  with your son.  Hope the weather is good for you too, not too hot and a nice break in the "liquid sunshine" we have mostly all had enough of this year....


----------



## Baymule

I hope you have a good week with your son, get lots done.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> I hope you have a good week with your son, get lots done.


If they gets lots done, it will be a good week...........at least for one of them......


----------



## frustratedearthmother




----------



## RollingAcres

Hope you have a good week with your son.


----------



## Latestarter

Man... can't catch a dry break. So talked with son and tomorrow I think we're gonna work in the mud regardless. Radar shows 200+ miles of rain stretching back to the SW all heading right over me here. Supposed to be clearing tomorrow then partly sunny into Saturday morning followed by another 2-3 days of rain... Picked a stellar week to have my son come to help.   Well, he needed a break and some down time...  Looks like he's gonna get some.


----------



## greybeard

I thought everybody with livestock and fences just worked out in the rain and bad weather all the time...................no?


----------



## Mini Horses

Yes -- if feeding, rounding up, milking, repairing fences, that stuff.    

If you can get floor stable & frame finished, the walls can be worked by one person -- slower but, worked.  Same with roof.   I believe LS is using wall panel, so they make a lot of "finish" with each one.


----------



## Rammy

Its raining here too. And I have to go to work.


----------



## Bruce

Well Rammy, isn't work inside? Hopefully it isn't raining inside.

LS, you don't have anywhere to build wall panels inside do you? Sucks about the rain, we need it to rain enough but not too much and at NIGHT!


----------



## Rammy

Yes, work is inside. But you have to drive in it, watch it all day, instead of being home and veggin on the couch sleeping or watching tv. But , got to pay bills............


----------



## RollingAcres

I'd rather that it rains while I'm working and be sunny and nice when I'm not working....but that's asking too much. 

@Latestarter it's going to rain here too...


----------



## High Desert Cowboy

We’ll gladly take that rain here, it wouldn’t hurt our feelings any.  I’m inside climate controlled barns all day anyway, rain snow sunlight it doesn’t matter.  It just changes if I’m fixing the broken heater, the burned up fan motor, or replacing the cool cell pump.


----------



## Mini Horses

Rammy said:


> But , got to pay bills............




 The root cause of so many things!     There's always "off grid"  & totally living SS or do without.


----------



## Rammy

Not old enough for SS yet. Probably wont get it when I AM old enough because it wont be there. So Im screwed either way.


----------



## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> Not old enough for SS yet. Probably wont get it when I AM old enough because it wont be there. So Im screwed either way.



Well you'll just have to hope that LS wins the MM soon so you can marry him.


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## frustratedearthmother

RollingAcres said:


> Well you'll just have to hope that LS wins the MM soon so you can marry him.


Or she can win it herself and not have to put up with a man, lol!!


----------



## RollingAcres

frustratedearthmother said:


> Or she can win it herself and not have to put up with a man, lol!!


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


>


Sorry LS, I just couldn't help it.


----------



## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> The root cause of so many things!     There's always "off grid"  & totally living SS or do without.


Ironic isn't it.so many talk about 'going OOOFFFF the grid" when so many others BTDT and want no more part of it.....


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr @Latestarter,

I understand about the rain.  I keep waiting for it to dry up enough so I can use the tractor with the grapple so I can remove all the brush and trees we have been cutting down, but it seems to rain every other day.





I wish we could send this rain to Miss @Ridgetop or Miss @babsbag, as they are now having to endure the Santa Ana winds and fire.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Ridgetop

We would definitely take all that rain.  Maybe it would put out the horrible fires that have started up again here.  They were driven by 70mph winds AGAIN!  The Santa Anas are horrible.  We are lucky that they are blowing the fire and smoke away from us, but the winds last night took off most of our barn roof. 
 

Sometimes it feels like we are just going in circles!  No trees down yet, but will have to repair the roof or completely re-roof probably.  It is hardly any pitch so was a hot tar roof that was almost 30 years old.  Not worth turning in to insurance since they will give us another bad checkmark and pro-rate it down to nothing anyway.  DH and DS will check it tomorrow to see if there is enough pitch that we can just shingle it.  I also have the roofer coming to give us a bid.  Just under 1200sf of roof.  Luckily the plywood sheeting under looks ok.  Hopefully, we can get the new roof on cheaply before rains come - lambing ewes have to be housed in there by next Wednesday.  I was hoping it would hold up until we sell and move.  Hate to reroof it, then sell, and have it torn down for development.  The winds have stopped for the time being but will probably return tonight.


----------



## Baymule

The sun came out this afternoon!!!!! 

Supposed to be sunny tomorrow, but a freeze tonight. We are going to work outside tomorrow, rain comes back Sunday and Monday. Sunny Tuesday through Friday!!  

But it is going to be cold. Freezing temps at night, up to 40's maybe 50's during the day. LS can your son take a few more days off?


----------



## farmerjan

Your forecast sounds mostly like ours here in Va.  We had rain today, then cold but sunny for Sat and into Sun, then some more rain for Mon & Tues.  But cold temps for here.  Low 30's tonight, then cold and windy with the sun, maybe mid 40's,  temps 10-20 below normal and a couple nights might get into the 20's.  Normal here is low 50's and upper 30's.  

Wish we could send some of our rain to Ca too.  Heard on the news on the radio that one fire jumped the firebreak.... said there were alot of homes lost...


----------



## Latestarter

Son has to fly out Tuesday evening. Can't extend his visit. They have 4 kids and his wife is a school teacher. The youngest is only in preschool so he needs to get back. Today we went and restocked on goat pellets and hay. A dozen bags of feed and a dozen bales of hay. It's difficult to even walk in the goat pen as it's slick as snot, goat poop mud. The wind and cooler air helped dry it out some this afternoon and I hope it will continue overnight. I/we plan on spending all day tomorrow building.

Tonight my son wanted shepherd's pie so I made it with 50/50 sheep burger and hamburger. Real mashed potatoes with some mixed shredded cheddar sprinkled on top. It's delish!


----------



## Baymule

I love making shepherds pie with lamb.


----------



## Mike CHS

What did your son think about eating lamb?

Even if you don't get as much done as you had planned on it's still good to get some Son time.


----------



## Latestarter

The meal was a hit... with both of us. Very tasty!


----------



## Mini Horses

How deep is the mud?  If slick, not deep consider throwing a couple bags of shavings around where you are working.  I've used them before for traction.  A thought.


----------



## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


> Or she can win it herself and not have to put up with a man, lol!!


Or LS can be a kept man! 
In his own house
On the other side of the property



Latestarter said:


>


It just won't die will it! 



Ridgetop said:


> Hate to reroof it, then sell, and have it torn down for development.


Since you are planning to sell, why not just do rolled roofing? Cheaper and faster than shingles, and used on low pitch roofs where shingles just don't cut it. 



Baymule said:


> I love making shepherds pie with lamb.


And what better to use given it is Sheep herder's pie!



Latestarter said:


> The meal was a hit... with both of us. Very tasty!


Love me some shepherd's pie. I bet it was terrific with lamb, I've only had it with beef.


----------



## FRED DESANTIS

Sounds like a good plan.


----------



## Latestarter

With my sons help we got all the floor joists blocked and supported at 5.5' in from either end, vice 16' full length. Then screwed down the 3/4" PT plywood flooring. The goats now have a dance floor and can no longer get themselves stuck under the decking where it was really shallow. For some reason the site will not let me load a picture right now? It's showing 100% but is locked at that point. Tried drag and drop and it says uploads are not available...


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## Baymule

That's NICE!!


----------



## Bruce

Now bend a few cattle panels over the top, add a tarp and DONE! 

Looks like the boys are jealous of the girls' dance floor.


----------



## Mike CHS

I doubt Joe wants to do cattle panels again. At least not without some reinforcement.


----------



## Bruce

I know, just teasing him. Hopefully he and his son can get some walls built and up and a roof structure as well. Don't know that there is enough time to get it roofed though I'm sure Joe would rather be on the ground while his son puts on the roof. But, que sera, sera.


----------



## Latestarter

More rain headed in tomorrow afternoon/eve.  20% chance tomorrow after 1pm, 100% chance tomorrow night and 90% into Monday. Tomorrow my son and I hope to do some meal time Veterans Day freebees. So there will be some running around involved. Right now my hands from the wrists down are so sore, they are almost inoperable... Having trouble typing. Luckily I type using only a couple of fingers. We'll head to IHOP for breakfast tomorrow and hopefully when we get home it will be warm and dry enough to start framing up walls. Ideally all the walls will be done tomorrow before the rain moves in. Some done after breakfast, finished after lunch, and we'll do the free dinner thing after dark at 6pm. 

Weather is supposed to be back to sunny on Tuesday and we don't have to head to the airport till ~3pm, so fingers crossed, we can get the roof put on before he leaves. It's a single, low slope roof and I intend to use polycarbonate, corrugated roofing, that is translucent and provides UV protection. That way it won't be so dark inside. Since the panels are only 26" wide, it's fairly easy to stand a ladder along side them, between the purlins, and screw them down. Of course that's also predicated on having working wrists... 

The goats were having a ball on their new dance floor this evening. Bang was trying to "rule" the entire area and chase everyone else off it. Last I looked, they are all out of sight, so must have climbed back under it for the evening. They'll have a bit more of a challenge now as they'll need to dodge all the support pillars we put in underneath. But there's a bright side as well... That floor is VERY stable and strong. No bounce at all. Additionally, they'll have a much larger covered area to hide under from tomorrow night's rain than they had before.  I just really hope none of them gets stuck now... I do NOT want to have to try and get under there to drag one out.


----------



## Ridgetop

The translucent panels will be great for light in the winter,but in the summer it will have a greenhouse effect and make the barn suffocatingly hot.  Or are you only putting up 3 walls and leaving one side open to allow ventilations?Are you going to do something else in the summer?


----------



## rachels.haven

So you're building a solid wood floor goat barn or shelter? What's your plan for covering the wood?


----------



## Bruce

Goat poop and pee! 

Sorry Joe, couldn't help myself. Hope the weather holds off and you hands hold up, best they can.


----------



## Baymule

I know your goats will be very happy when their barn is completed. After a couple of years of a "temporary" shelter I threw up made of OSB, our sheep finally got a 20'x24' roof, the sides are all open. We put radiant heat barrier under the metal roofing and it is much cooler under their roof. The crap OSB shelter is still there, they like it, so they can keep it until I get some walls up. The sheep used to ruminate out under trees, now they go back to their barn.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Latestarter said:


> For some reason the site will not let me load a picture right now? It's showing 100% but is locked at that point.



I've had that problem numerous times.  Exasperating.

Nice looking dance floor for the goats.  I hope you can get this done soon and that your hands are up to the task.


----------



## greybeard

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> I've had that problem numerous times.  Exasperating.
> 
> Nice looking dance floor for the goats.  I hope you can get this done soon and that your hands are up to the task.


Usually means the image is too big if you are trying a direct to post upload..the software is having trouble resizing it. Next time it happens, try the thumbnail option, tho that too is not a guarantee fix.

IF you are experiencing a slow internet  connection, the uploader can time out too.


----------



## goatgurl

slowly but surely the barn is taking shape.  hope you and your DS can get the bigger part of it done before he has to go back home. 
hope you enjoyed your veterans day munchfest.  lots of places up here feeding vets for free today.  good for them.


----------



## RollingAcres

Your goat dance floor looks good.


----------



## Latestarter

When they had the previous shelter, the only time they really used it was during inclement weather. They much preferred to be outside. I'm sure it will be the same with this when it's done. Raining right now and they are all under their present shelter... the floor of their to be shelter. Least the entire floor is done now so much roomier underneath than before.

Just got back from a 3 stop dinner fest. First a wing meal at Hooters followed by an appetizer at Red Lobster and finished up with a second wing and fries meal at Buffalo Wild Wings. Didn't finish all the wings there, so lunch for tomorrow. Went to IHOP this morning for the free pancakes only to be told it's tomorrow Oops!  Denny's is doing a breakfast tomorrow but the nearest one is 35 miles away so will maybe do IHOP again. Golden Corral is scheduled for tomorrow night.


----------



## Baymule

Well at least y'all are eating good! LOL Pouring rain here, lots of thunder. Trip is in the house, him and the puppy have been playing in the floor, chewing on each other. LOL


----------



## B&B Happy goats

How is miss Pearl doing with the rain ?


----------



## RollingAcres

Looks like someone is eating good over there!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @goatgurl, good to see you back online!


----------



## Bruce

Geez Joe, can't catch a break with the weather! And if the rain does stop, you and DS won't be able to get up to work after all that food!


----------



## greybeard

This is normal weather for this time of year. Lots of rain is to be expected in East Texas, any time different air masses collide anywhere close to moisture laden Gulf or Pacific air.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, the goats were mostly dry when I got out there to feed them. Gave them a little extra pellets and hay this morning since it's only 42° and windy as well as wet/damp. Should experience our first hard freeze period over the coming three nights. Lows down as far as 24° on Wed night. When I counted them there were only 9 girls when there should be 10. April was missing. She wasn't outside the pen like past time so  I went around the pen to look under the deck and sure enough, she was way up under there. I called out so she'd know food was coming and she got out on her own (thank God, cause there was no way I could have gotten under to get her out). Rainy/misty weather expected through most of today as well as cold and windy. I checked the rain gauge after chores and it said 1 1/4" of rain but I think we got more than that. The water depth in all the feeder bowls was at least 2-3" deep.

My hands/wrists were useless yesterday and when not going out to eat, I spent the day with an ice pack on them. I have about 75% mobility back in them today. Supposed to be nice weather tomorrow, but right now the pen and pasture is a bog with streams running across it. The rest of the week seems to be warming and nice, so should be able to continue.


----------



## Baymule

We got 1 3/4" last night and it is cold and drizzly now. NOT going outside to play! We are going to Red Lobster for late lunch/early supper late this afternoon. As retired people, we like to go eat between the lunch/supper rush. Going to be 27* tonight!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Looks like it is finally going to dry out later this week for where we live.


----------



## Rammy

Why on earth do your goats like to go under the deck instead of going into a soon to be perfectly good barn is beyond me. Silly things.


----------



## Baymule

We are going to have sunny weather this week too!!!!  And COLD!


----------



## Bruce

Rammy said:


> Why on earth do your goats like to go under the deck instead of going into a soon to be perfectly good barn is beyond me. Silly things.


The girls can't get to the boys' barn, that's why!

Sounds like maybe you need to slide some sort of divider under the dance floor so the girls can't get in so far they will get stuck!


----------



## Latestarter

The "deck" meaning the flooring of the "to be" goat mansion...


----------



## Bruce

Don't forget the finer touches in the mansion like crystal chandeliers.


----------



## Baymule

LS did you make your Veterans Day rounds this evening? Our neighbor is a Viet Nam Veteran and he said he wasn't going to Golden Corral tonight. He said they had to wait in line outside and it was too cold and miserable for him and his wife. Did you have to wait in line?


----------



## Mike CHS

We are in our DO NOT GO TO PLACES WITH CROWDS mode right now due to flu rearing up around us so it would have to be an excellent meal to go out now.


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> We are in our DO NOT GO TO PLACES WITH CROWDS mode right now due to flu rearing up around us so it would have to be an excellent meal to go out now.


Do you take elderberry syrup? @Devonviolet brought it to my attention and gave me a recipe. You can buy dried elderberries on Amazon. It keeps the flu virus from replicating. So you may get the virus, but it won't last long or get you very sick if the virus cannot reproduce. BJ and I picked elderberries this summer, I made the syrup and an elderberry pie.


----------



## Mini Horses

Rammy said:


> Why on earth do your goats like to go under the deck instead of going into a soon to be perfectly good barn is beyond me.



Thy are going UNDER the soon to be barn.   Dairy goats notoriously do not walk in the rain!   They like to be inside.  Right now, under the floor of the new barn is their "inside".   They'll be giving kisses when it's done!


----------



## Mike CHS

I think I have the recipe that you guys put out last year but I'll have to check.  It couldn't hurt.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> We are in our DO NOT GO TO PLACES WITH CROWDS mode right now due to flu rearing up around us so it would have to be an excellent meal to go out now.


Given everything you've posted, I'd say your place it the best place for an excellent meal!


----------



## Mike CHS

Bruce said:


> Given everything you've posted, I'd say your place it the best place for an excellent meal!



We do pretty good and really have to be tempted to go to a restaurant or more likely just a late work day.


----------



## Latestarter

Just got back from Golden Corral. They've been doing this for a very long time and after participating for a few years, you learn some tricks. #1, do NOT go early to try and beat the rush... You will become part of it. The first time I went I waited outside in line for almost an hour, before getting in. It runs from 5pm - 9pm. The participants are generally pretty geriatric so must go early in order to get home by their 8pm bed time. We planned to arrive at 7pm and that's when we pulled into the parking lot. Walked right in  and up to the cashier to pay our zero dollars. It had emptied out to self seating so the patronage guard asked how many to which we replied 2. He said to follow the couple ahead of us and sit with them. An Air Force vet from 68-72 and his wife. A very enjoyable couple and great meal. The patronage was ~85% vets and 15% their relations. No arguing, hostilities, pushing or shoving. Very friendly atmosphere! 

When we left at 8pm after stuffing ourselves, the place was only ~75% filled. Plenty of free seating and food available. Anyone who asks me, I'd tell them plan to arrive some time after 7pm. Closer to 8pm would be even better.


----------



## Baymule

I'll tell that to my neighbor. He might try that next year.


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> Stopped on the way home for a "real" (as you can get down here) Philly cheese steak sub. It was actually quite good


You’ll have to tell me where you got this “Real Philly Cheesesteak”.  I haven’t had one of those since I last went to Philadelphia many, many moons ago.


Mike CHS said:


> We are in our DO NOT GO TO PLACES WITH CROWDS mode right now due to flu rearing up around us so it would have to be an excellent meal to go out now.


The thing about eating out during flu season, is that you don’t only have to worry about getting sick from the people you come in contact with, you have to worry about the people you never even see . . . Meaning the ones in the kitchen, cooking your food.  You don’t know if they are coughing and sneezing all over your food before it’s delivered to your table. 

Our daughter used to work at Outback in Rochester, MN. She told a story about a disgruntled employee, who spit into the food before it was served to customers. DD was in management, and someone saw it and reported it to her, after the fact.   Every once in a while I think of that when we go out to eat. During flu season, it does stop me from going out to eat.

A few years after DD told us about the above inncident, we went out to eat during the worst of a bad flu season. Three days afterwards (perfect incubation time), I got REALLY sick with the flu. It was before I knew about Elderberry Syrup, and I was sick for several weeks.  After that, I could just not bring myself to eat at Outback again.


----------



## Latestarter

https://www.yelp.com/biz/cheesesteak-house-dallas?osq=Philly+Cheesesteak  Son & I are going to stop there on the way to drop him at the airport.


----------



## Devonviolet

Thanks LS. I found it on the map, and looks like we will never get there. It is 48 minutes South of where we go to visit our daughter.

Maybe I’ll see if I can find some frozen sliced meat, like I used to do, when I lived in PA. It IS possible to make a fairly good replication, of the real deal, with the right ingredients.


----------



## Bruce

Ah heck, 48 minutes in Texas is nothing!


----------



## Baymule

48 minutes in Dallas traffic ain't no picnic. I am spoiled to my little town.


----------



## Mike CHS

We are about 10 miles from Lewisburg and I doubt that we pass more than 4 or 5 other vehicles going down Hwy 31A.  It spoils us for the times we go into Franklin to the warehouse stores.


----------



## Baymule

LS were you able to get anything done outside today? it was cold and windy, thought about you. WE sure didn't do much outside. I did chores, let the puppy run around and I went to the dentist. I made orange bran muffins to heat for breakfast, was in the cooking mood.


----------



## Latestarter

It was cold, windy, misty and lousy out till early afternoon. At that point it was just damp, no longer misty. Got all the outside water issues handled to prepare for the coming freeze. The area around the bldg is all mud, slippery as wet ice, and miserable to walk/work in. Didn't want my son to get his footwear all nasty and soaked and have to fly home that way. Though the clouds have cleared over Dallas and points west of here, it's STILL cloudy here. At this point though, it's a good thing as it will keep the temp from plummeting. Says 36° right now, but doesn't feel that cold.

I did get to have another cheese steak sub with my son before dropping him at the airport. Got home well after dark so the animals were extremely happy to see me. Guess they thought I'd forgotten them and they were gonna starve... Hands and wrists are getting a little better each day. Weather is supposed to clear with a warming trend through the end of the week. If/when the ground dries out enough, I'll get back to work. Framing up walls is relatively easy and lighter work.

I like heavy traffic about as much as the next person... That being said, sometimes you just have to do what you have to do. A 1 hour drive for me, even in traffic is not a big deal. I don't "like" it, but it's not like the end of the world... If I'm in the general area of something I'd like to do, I'll find a way to do it. Maybe offer to take your DD and fam to "late lunch" there, or an early dinner, plan it for a time when traffic is typically at its lowest. I'll absolutely drive an hour for a good cheese steak sub.  Two+ hours is a bit too much however.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> hough the clouds have cleared over Dallas and points west of here, it's STILL cloudy here.


Same here but the good side is, the cloud cover will keep the temps a little higher for a little longer.
I did the freeze preventative routine this afternoon, then fixed a leak under the house. Sharkbite plumbing fittings.
 
I ain't crazy about em.


----------



## Latestarter

I've used the same type fittings by a different manufacturer but only on inside pipes. I haven't had any issues with them leaking but since they're new to me, I haven't built a lot of trust in them. The shark bite site says they are fully approved, even for use on buried piping...  They do make things a hell of a lot easier/quicker (and possibly safer), than sweating/soldering. But I do trust a properly done solder joint 100%.


----------



## Latestarter

So at least one of my chickens is no longer a freeloader!   Been feeding them for about 2 months now and one BO had developed her comb and wattles. Got my first egg today and expect it was from her. The other 4 seem to finally be starting to grow out their combs and wattles (real or imagined?) so hopefully they'll start before too much longer. It's quite a bit smaller than the extra large store bought versions, but they will increase in size and weight with time, as y'all surely know.




My yearling goats are growing in their winter coats and are so soft and plush... like little fluffy kids toys! They're so cute!  They aren't so little anymore though. They are almost as large as the adults except for PB&J who was the last born, but even she is growing well and not far behind the others size wise.


----------



## farmerjan

Congrats on the first egg.... always nice to know they are getting started with the program.  Mine are all moulting, and if they don't feather fast they are going to have "frozen" butts....  but with the shortening of days, laying will be very spotty... Oh well.  The purebreds/show birds don't lay like the commercial ones either. 
We are looking at possible 1-2 inches of snow, with sleet/freezing rain/ice.....Cold crappy weather.  'Spose to start here after 12 or 1 a.m. and then through tomorrow. After 1.3 inches Sunday night and Monday....and it was a cold rain too.  UGH...


----------



## StarSpangledNubians

I don't know why I think eggs are cute. That's a cute egg, lol. Most of my girls are 6-7 years old
I don't want to butcher them or rehome, they have been living here freeloading for the last 5ish years. I did hatch 2 chicks a couple months ago from my rooster I butchered 13 days before I found the eggs and put them in the bator. I find that crazy! I hope they are girls, but with my luck they are roos.


----------



## Bruce

Arcadia (BR) started 8/31 with a 40g, took her until 10/27 before she was generally laying Large (> 57g). Vienna (the other BR) started around 9/27 and is still in the Medium range.

I have 2 at the moment that look like they won, just barely, a battle with a chicken plucker.


----------



## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> View attachment 54507


Wow! Very nice.


----------



## RollingAcres

Congrats on the eggs!
Currently all of my animals are free loaders...


----------



## Latestarter

So just came in from working on the goat shack. I got the front and back walls all framed out but they are still laying down on the dance floor because I KNOW the goats will try to push them over if I stand them up. Too dark to take a pic after doing goat chores. Will get more pics when further along. Poss showers this evening and into tomorrow then back to sun shiny, though cool, weather. Hands and wrists as well as knees are tired but not too sore. Hopefully I can start on the side and center wall framing tomorrow, and in any case, get back on it after the weather passes.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Are you doing all this alone ???  Dang man, tell your fellow Texans your having a barn raising, and you will be serving BBQ brisket ...then you'll  have some help !   Take care of yourself and don't  overwork thoes hands...


----------



## farmerjan

You know, a barn raising is an idea......


----------



## B&B Happy goats

farmerjan said:


> You know, a barn raising is an idea......


And once they get there and find out its a  goat castle  it will get done faster, then ya all can party


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all... It'll get done, just not as fast as I coulda done it a few decades ago.   There's a reason why old time farmers produced a passel of kids... Nice to have them around later in life to do the heavy lifting for ya.


----------



## Latestarter

Awoke to the sound of possible rain on the roof. Wasn't the ceiling fan (always on when I try to sleep), and wasn't the sound of air coming through the vents from the furnace. Got up and as I got some clothes on I could hear it increasing so hurried as best I could to get some shoes on, a heavy flannel shirt, and headed out to let Mel in. He had been standing at the back gate and was turning around to wander off when I went out. He was pretty happy to get up on the deck, get toweled off, and come inside. All the goats are under the dance floor.  Rained real hard for about 20 minutes. Now kinda sprinkles. May be more coming, we'll see.

It's too early to be up sitting here but too late to go back to bed. Guess I'll go make my morning tea and recline. Maybe I'll doze and get some more rest. Hands and wrists have tightened up and are a little stiff & sore.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Sorry about your hands, i am drinking my tea now.....cream and sugar ? ...too bad the noise woke you up....but at least it wasn't  goats on the roof tap dancing.....a rainy  day is a good day to sleep in., have a great day


----------



## Rammy

I love it when it rains here. I have a metal roof and  the sound of the rain falling on it makes me sleepy. Even if there are thunderstorms I sleep right thru it. Of course, when you need to get things done outside its not so nice. Take the raining as a sign you need to take some LS time and heal up before tackling the rest of the goat palace. In the meantime, the goats can practice tap dancing on thier dance floor.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

He will have them line dancing soon...after all they are in Texas  goats with cowboy hat's  n boots, line dancing to "God Bless Texas"


----------



## greybeard

I haven't seen anyone in Texas 'line' dance since before the turn of the century.
Thankfully, that fad mostly died with the urban cowboy crud.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

The high school and college kids I work with still line dance.  The Cupid Shuffle seems to be the most popular these days...


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I didn't get to doze a whole lot. Decided I better go do a little grocery shopping before the crowds got rolling. Wallyworld at 7am is a lot better than after 10 am. Figured I'd pick up a few items and $223 later, headed back home.  Bought 4, 14-16# frozen turkeys @ 0.68/lb. The one I had left in the big freezer will be for Thanksgiving on Thursday. After I got all that stuff put away I hit the recliner again and dozed a while. No more rain, but the temp has dropped since early this morning. After the rain it was 54°. It's now 46° Could feel the wind pick up and colder temps moving in after shopping.

Took a couple pictures of the dance floor. They can't dance on it right now all that well. They'd be tripping and breaking legs. As it turns out, all the girls are resting between the wall studs so I went ahead and turned one into a family portrait as well.



 

Family portrait


----------



## farmerjan

It may not be your favorite, but here we still do line dancing and my son still does some 2-stepping.  We used to dance with a dance club that did exhibitions and had a ball.  My ankle prevents that at present, but will be making some decisions once I get all this medicare stuff in line.  If I can't afford to do the stem cell, and with so many farms not testing regular, I will be relying on my SS a little more than I had planned right off the bat.  Wanted to put that towards the stem cell plus the money from selling calves.  But with the prices being off so much, we are probably going to put off selling til after the first of the year now.  It's all up in the air right at this time....

Too many upsets and things lately, and just heard another good friend and very well liked local who was the manager of the experimental station at McCormick's farm; part of Va tech ag stuff; died very unexpectantly on Friday.  We have sat at many different forage and grazing meetings with him, he was a big supporter of our local fire dept.... in his early 50's. We had just gone to the memorial for the 53 yr old neighbor and friend that was killed in the freak accident during the demonstration at the Medieval re enactment.  Add to it all the stuff with the workman's comp with my son, and this infernal wet weather that just won't quit for awhile...my parents difficulties....

Will be so glad for 2018 to end and maybe have a better year in 2019.....


----------



## Latestarter

Hated to "like" your post Jan... Sorry there's so much "crap" happening. Really hope the end of this year leaves it all behind for you and you have a great 2019 

So I'm making lamb burger helper for dinner again. Cheesy Italian shells this time. Making sure they really are as I "doctored" them up with added basil, oregano, pasta sauce, onion, garlic, and parm cheese. Simmering now and should be ready for consumption here in ~10 minutes. Had hands and wrists on blue ice (reusable blue plastic ice block things) most of afternoon. They aren't happy at the moment. Guess I can set the pan down and when cool eat like my dogs...   What the hey... it's how most of us started eating as babies in high chairs...

Still gray, overcast, damp, and cool here. No rain but might have had some sprinkles off and on through the day, the ground is wet. Got chilled today and turned the heat up to 74 to try and get warm. It helped a lot. Will turn it back down before bed. Nothing on the radar anywhere near me. Not even showing the cloud cover, so it must be pretty low and solid. Everything is south by/around Lufkin and moving rapidly to the east. Not supposed to freeze any night this week which is nice.


----------



## Baymule

Hope your hands feel better. It was fairly nice early this morning, but the temps dropped all day and now it is cold. No freezes though.  The dance floor looks good. I like the way you placed all those 2x4's to help the goats learn where to place their feet when you crank up the music so they can line dance.


----------



## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> still does some 2-stepping


2 step and line dance are completely different. I doubt 2 step will ever fade away, as it has been around for a very very long time... before I was born.

I think it was about 1983, some friends of mine and I were in a dancehall outside of Bryan Texas and that's the first time we ever witnessed some people getting up and 'line dancing'.
The whole place just stopped talking and stared with mouths open..the 'wth is this?' look, us included. 

Saw a  band at a local VFW refuse to play for some Houston folks that got up to line dance a couple years ago and management asked them to leave, tho I believe they really bounced them because one of the guys was violating the "No Mullets Allowed" rule.

What line dancing leads to?


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

farmerjan said:


> Too many upsets and things lately



Miss @farmerjan,

You seem like a goodhearted, decent person.  It's a shame that you have endured so much.  I really hope you can get the stem cell treatment you need and the troubles you are having can go away for awhile.  I hope cattle prices will start rising for you so that you can more easily meet your financial needs.

Wishing you and your son the best.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Baymule

Uh-huh......and @farmerjan is looking over her shoulder for some creepy old man pointing a camera at her......


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> They can't dance on it right now all that well.


No but they can practice their speed and agility like football players running through tires.



farmerjan said:


> Will be so glad for 2018 to end and maybe have a better year in 2019.....


I sure hope the worst is over and there are NO bad events!



Latestarter said:


> Had hands and wrists on blue ice (reusable blue plastic ice block things) most of afternoon. They aren't happy at the moment.


Are you nailing the studs? I don't know if you have a pneumatic nailer. If not, you might want to raise the walls and screw them in place rather than having to pound nails. Yeah costs more but no shock to the hands and wrists.


----------



## Rammy

Baymule said:


> Uh-huh......and @farmerjan is looking over her shoulder for some creepy old man pointing a camera at her......


----------



## Latestarter

Bruce, They have been running and chasing each other through the wall studs exactly like football players do with the tires. I've been using screws exclusively. Only nails so far were to nail the joists to the sills. The torque of the DeWalt battery pwrd drill on the wrist and hand when the screws seat can hurt but yeah, not nearly as much as the repeated pounding from hammering. All the decking was screwed down an all the siding will be screwed on as well.

Oh, and @B&B Happy goats I drink my tea hot with splenda and international delight french vanilla creamer. Or I drink crystal light iced tea made from a mixture of the lemon flavored with the sweet tea flavored.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Are you nailing the studs? I don't know if you have a pneumatic nailer. If not, you might want to raise the walls and screw them in place rather than having to pound nails. Yeah costs more but no shock to the hands and wrists.


And added torque too.
1-1/2" length screws just to get thru the 2x4 bottom plate of the wall framing, + 3/4" to get thru the  plywood decking, then at least 1 1/4" to screw into the sill= 3-1/2" long screws...they aren't cheap, and getting them screwed in tight is going to be hard on hands as well. The #10 star head deck screws are about $8/lb, and you can figure about 60 screws to the lb.  Won't be easy drilling either, going thru 2 different woods to get down into the sill or joist and still be able to pull the wall plate down tight...be prepared to strip out some heads, break off some screws and wear out some bits..keep your batteries charged up good...


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> Bruce, They have been running and chasing each other through the wall studs exactly like football players do with the tires. I've been using screws exclusively. Only nails so far were to nail the joists to the sills. The torque of the DeWalt battery pwrd drill on the wrist and hand when the screws seat can hurt but yeah, not nearly as much as the repeated pounding from hammering. All the decking was screwed down an all the siding will be screwed on as well.
> 
> Oh, and @B&B Happy goats I drink my tea hot with splenda and international delight french vanilla creamer. Or I drink crystal light iced tea made from a mixture of the lemon flavored with the sweet tea flavored.


I drink my tea hot in the morning, but iceed tea for the rest of the day


----------



## RollingAcres

@farmerjan Sorry to hear about your friend....


----------



## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> Uh-huh......and @farmerjan is looking over her shoulder for some creepy old man pointing a camera at her......



Are you calling @Senile_Texas_Aggie a creepy old man?


----------



## Latestarter

I'm using the #9 and #10 star head screws in 3"+ for the framing and framing to sill/other framing/etc. attachments, & in 2" for the decking and siding. I've had no problem with stripping out screw heads or breaking the screws. I have worn out a couple of the bits since I started using the star head screws a year or more ago, but they are cheap to replace. The screws ARE expensive but I believe they'll prove better than nails in the long run. I generally buy them in the 3lb (or is it 5lb?) plastic containers. The 20V DeWalt drill has worked exceptionally well, battery has lasted quite long as in all day. I always have a 2nd battery fully charged and ready to go so just swap them out daily or as needed.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Won't be easy drilling either, going thru 2 different woods to get down into the sill or joist and still be able to pull the wall plate down tight...be prepared to strip out some heads, break off some screws and wear out some bits..keep your batteries charged up good...


I have 2 cordless drills. One has a countersink in it the other the star head bit for the screws I am using. Yeah it takes longer. Yeah it is WAY easier on the hand and wrist with respect to torque.


----------



## greybeard

I have had problems over the years, with screws rusting in half just below the heads when drilled thru or into PT lumber and especially true in areas where urine and feces are present. Have not had the same trouble with galvanized nails or lag screws. 
Maybe goat poop & pee is different than cow poop and pee..


----------



## Mini Horses

greybeard said:


> Maybe goat poop & pee is different than cow poop and pee..



Less of it AND the poo in pellets rolls off and doesn't soak in.     Since the goat squats, she normally gets a little further from the wall to empty the bladder.  I suspect they will be easier on the nails than the cows.  Mine have been.


----------



## Latestarter

That is something I hadn't considered...  They poop wherever they happen to be standing and like MH said, they are normally dry little balls like what you get from rabbits. Even when moist, they dry out pretty quick... not a lot of moisture. Pee on the other hand might/could become an issue. So far they poop everywhere on the dance floor, but seem to only squat in toward the center. Hopefully that will remain the case. Not worried about the screws holding the PT plywood decking down but the screws holding the walls down... now those rusting out might present a bit of a hazard.  Maybe down the road I'll "back up" the star screws with some galvanized lag screws. I haven't needed a countersink... I just put a little weight behind the drill and push at the end & run them down flush or just below the surface. They pull themselves (heads) down into the wood with little effort.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Are you able to seal the floor with a oil based paint and while wet use sand or "Shark" anti slip ..? .that would keep the floor from soaking the urine  into it and rotting  it out. Then shavings to soak up the wet  pee ? If you can keep the goats away from it... the rolling of the paint is easy, although i have a sand floor in our goat castle, i have painted the walls with the oil based paint so when i want to clean inside ...i just use the hose and everything dries quickly.  I only ask because it looks like you used plywood..... or Thompsons water seal would work


----------



## Latestarter

I used 3/4" pressure treated plywood for the floor. It will take a while for moisture to do any real damage to it. In the past I've used a product called black jack https://www.lowes.com/pd/BLACK-JACK-Rubr-Coat-4-75-Gallon-Fibered-Roof-Sealant/3043257  on the floor and lower walls of a raised floor chicken coop with deep litter inside. It worked really well but I don't think it would stand up to sharp goat hooves. Also, it's getting late in the year to apply anything like that outside due to temps. Might revisit the options come spring, but for the winter it's gonna just have to do as is.


----------



## Baymule

RollingAcres said:


> Are you calling @Senile_Texas_Aggie a creepy old man?


Yup, sure am!!!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I used 3/4" pressure treated plywood for the floor. It will take a while for moisture to do any real damage to it. In the past I've used a product called black jack https://www.lowes.com/pd/BLACK-JACK-Rubr-Coat-4-75-Gallon-Fibered-Roof-Sealant/3043257  on the floor


Works pretty good to seal off leaks on the floor of a flat bottomed aluminum john boat too.....till the summer sun hits it and every time you move your feet you leave a string of tarry looking stuff..I've been waiting 3 months now for some to harden up so I can overspray it with truckbed liner.


----------



## Latestarter

Will the truck bed liner material adhere to a water based product? Hmmmmmm


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Baymule said:


> Yup, sure am!!!



Miss @Baymule, I thought you were my friend!  You've turned to be like Mr. @Bruce and Mr. @greybeard -- hurting my feelings by telling the truth about me! 

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## RollingAcres

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @Baymule, I thought you were my friend!  You've turned to be like Mr. @Bruce and Mr. @greybeard -- hurting my feelings by telling the truth about me!
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


Oh great, now STA needs a safe space on BYH...


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## Rammy

Stalkees usually turn on their stalkers at some point...........and we have his address, too...........muhahahaha..................Just teasin  ya @Senile_Texas_Aggie !!


----------



## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> Hated to "like" your post Jan... Sorry there's so much "crap" happening. Really hope the end of this year leaves it all behind for you and you have a great 2019
> 
> So I'm making lamb burger helper for dinner again. Cheesy Italian shells this time. Making sure they really are as I "doctored" them up with added basil, oregano, pasta sauce, onion, garlic, and parm cheese. Simmering now and should be ready for consumption here in ~10 minutes. Had hands and wrists on blue ice (reusable blue plastic ice block things) most of afternoon. They aren't happy at the moment. Guess I can set the pan down and when cool eat like my dogs...   What the hey... it's how most of us started eating as babies in high chairs...
> 
> Still gray, overcast, damp, and cool here. No rain but might have had some sprinkles off and on through the day, the ground is wet. Got chilled today and turned the heat up to 74 to try and get warm. It helped a lot. Will turn it back down before bed. Nothing on the radar anywhere near me. Not even showing the cloud cover, so it must be pretty low and solid. Everything is south by/around Lufkin and moving rapidly to the east. Not supposed to freeze any night this week which is nice.



I’m under the impression that you don’t typically take much along the line of medication for aches and pains. I thought I’d tell you about something that helps me with most of my pains.

 I love this stuff. It does typically get a warm sensation. And it doesn’t help all of painful areas the same either.


----------



## Carla D

Latestarter said:


> I'm using the #9 and #10 star head screws in 3"+ for the framing and framing to sill/other framing/etc. attachments, & in 2" for the decking and siding. I've had no problem with stripping out screw heads or breaking the screws. I have worn out a couple of the bits since I started using the star head screws a year or more ago, but they are cheap to replace. The screws ARE expensive but I believe they'll prove better than nails in the long run. I generally buy them in the 3lb (or is it 5lb?) plastic containers. The 20V DeWalt drill has worked exceptionally well, battery has lasted quite long as in all day. I always have a 2nd battery fully charged and ready to go so just swap them out daily or as needed.


I’ve recently, actually accidentally stumbled upon the T20 (Star) screw myself. I’m not very good with power tools, I like hand tools better. I’m REALLY GOOD at stopping the heads of my screws and chewing up the coordinating bit. But after using the star head screw, I haven’t stripped one screw. Those are going to be my “go to” when I buy screws from now on.


----------



## Rammy

Oh, I love those things too. Thats all I get now. I put the bit back into the box so I know where it is. I hate regular screws. I will chew those things up like nothing but the star screws are great.


----------



## Carla D

Rammy said:


> Oh, I love those things too. Thats all I get now. I put the bit back into the box so I know where it is. I hate regular screws. I will chew those things up like nothing but the star screws are great.


I’ve had quite a bit of practice chewing up bits and stripping screws. I bet these star bit screws were created by a woman for a woman.


----------



## Latestarter

Hey I'm an equal opportunity employer of stuff that works! I don't care if it was invented by a woman or a space alien... The star head screws are awesome. 

I always preferred Phillips heads over straight slot as that is a huge "step up" IMO. I think the only thing better than the star head are the hex head screws (self tapping), but they can't be counter sunk very well/easily so are not flush.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Rammy said:


> Stalkees usually turn on their stalkers at some point...........and we have his address, too...........muhahahaha..................Just teasin ya @Senile_Texas_Aggie !!



Oh, no!  Turnabout is fair play, I guess!


----------



## Baymule

I adore star screws and we buy them in all sizes. I ask for big boxes of them for my birthday!


----------



## greybeard

I actually prefer the square bits and screws--properly called a Robertson®. They are every bit (no pun intended) as good as a Torx®, but with the added advantage, that you can stick a Robertson® 3 1/2" long screw on the bit, tilt the bit and screw into any geometric plane--vertical..horizontal, (straight up, straight down, sideways)  at any angle and if you pushed the square tapered bit into the screw head like you're supposed to ..............................the screw will not fall off the bit like a Torx® and Phillips will. The only way to get a Torx screw to stay on the bit when in a horizontal position is if you have a magnetized bit.
It IS easier to get a Torx bit into the screw and if you get the right screwpoint profile, they probably do drive in a little faster but as much overhead and horizontal work as I do, I still prefer the square head.
More on that:
http://wordsnwood.com/2016/torx-vs-robertson/



I think the first Torx or star bolts I ever ran across were on 80s GM  seat belts, front brake calipers and rear bearing hubs. Strip one of those brake T-47s out, you may as well get your drill and easy outs ready and a good pencil torch.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> seem to only squat in toward the center


Joe, they are telling you where they want the hole for their outhouse! 



Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> You've turned to be like Mr. @Bruce and Mr. @greybeard -- hurting my feelings by telling the truth about me!


Ah gee STA, not intending to hurt your feelings!



Latestarter said:


> but they can't be counter sunk very well/easily so are not flush.


I guess you could countersink with a properly sized spade bit.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> Ah gee STA, not intending to hurt your feelings!



It's all in good fun!


----------



## Latestarter

So happy turkey day everyone. Hope all can find at least one thing to be thankful for today. We can all go back to bitching and kvetching tomorrow   My day has gotten off to a crappy start... literally. While feeding the goats this morning, Beauty came out but just stood there and wasn't interested in eating. So after a bit, I grabbed her collar and started leading her over to the pellet bowl when I notice a big puddle of brown on the ground and she has scours all over her anus area.   She's not a real mess yet, her tail is still up, and she's still full bodied, so it must have started relatively recently. But it's obvious she's not feeling real well. She was perfectly fine last night at feeding time. When she squatted to pee, she let out quite a bit of gas as well. She did nibble/eat some hay when I put that out for them, and she was nibbling at the wood siding on the trailer.

Of course this has to happen on a holiday when vets are closed. Considered scooping up some of the diarrhea to bag and put in the fridge till tomorrow so I could take to a vet for analysis, but then I really don't want that in there with my entire left over thanksgiving meal...   So I guess she's gonna be on her own here today and I'll monitor her and see if she gets over this herself or if I'll need to seek vet help tomorrow. If I think of it I'll try to get some pics later today. None of the other goats has this problem/issue right now and I hope it stays that way.


----------



## Rammy

Sorry to hear about your goat. Im sure you will be keeping an eye on her today. Hope the rest of your day is better.


----------



## Mike CHS

Seems like it's always something but hopefully better soon.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Happy Thanksgiving... hope your day gets better.  A little probios if you've got it might help her feel better in the interim...


----------



## Baymule

Hope she gets better.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

.......well, Happy Thanksgiving, hope eats some hay....


----------



## RollingAcres

Happy Thanksgiving LS!
Hope things get better for you and for Beauty.


----------



## Latestarter

So as I was out in the kitchen finishing getting all the items finished for dinner, I started feeling a little light headed and like I needed to sweat. I stopped what I was doing, took 3 low dose aspirin, and got my legs up in the recliner. After ~1/2 hour was fine. No clue what that was all about. Broke out the BP cuff and registered a 159/85. Both a little higher than normal for me. Normal is ~134/82. I ran out of my main BP med yesterday so had no pill for today. I'd called the VA to order quite a bit ago, but they haven't arrived yet. Hopefully they'll be here tomorrow 

So after I finished getting everything ready, I had created a concoction of ACV/honey/water which was recommended for Beauty for her scours. Went down and when I caught her, her butt was completely clear. I don't know if Mel took care of it or what. He still looks after them even now that they are almost adults. Several of them he really likes to clean their ears. Anyway, attached her to the fence and drenched her with the mixture. Will still keep an eye on her, especially at dinner time. Hope she eats. She wasn't pleased with the mixture all that much... Wasn't smelling all that appetizing to me either considering the meal I had in the works...

After that was done, came in and washed hands and here I sit eating some dinner.




Green bean casserole, garlic smashed spuds with skins, gravy, turkey of course, home made stuffing, candied yams (I do NOT like them baked with marshmallow! ) and jellied cranberry sauce. I have a plate I'm eating from right now, with a little of everything.   Not sure if the dogs are going to get any of these scraps tonight... might hold off till tomorrow. But I'm sure they smell it and they KNOW what that means at some point.  That about does it from me here. Happy Thanksgiving all.


----------



## Rammy

Looks like casseroles and turkey sandwiches for a couple of days. Hope you are ok. If you feel like that again maybe call your doctor? And if Mel cleaned off Beautys patootie......eewwwww!!! No dog kissies from him! Your spread looks great.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, night feeding chores are done. Beauty ate her pellets OK. A little slower than normal but no hesitation. She also fought with her sisters over access to the hay bucket and ate well there. Also saw her drink water at the trough afterwards. No indication of scours on her rear. I have no idea what it was all about, but seems to have passed. Maybe something she ate?  I never did make or get any desserts... Guess I'll just got grab some recliner and see if the dead skins can breath more life into the cowboys...


----------



## Baymule

I made chocolate meringue pie.


----------



## Mike CHS

Yum!


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## B&B Happy goats

On our way......  looks yummy.....


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I made no-bake cookies...I’d share if you were closer!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter,  i think that was just Beauty's  way of showing you her love, after all "you are her momma"....


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Why would you give her something acidic when she is having gut issues? Curious.


----------



## Latestarter

I don't know what the issue was. I was told that it helps with the runs. No more scours and she ate well tonight. Will see what tomorrow brings.

Felt slighted/cheated/deprived having no dessert so  looked in the cupboards and found chocolate pudding, a couple graham cracker crusts, a can of left over whipped cream in the fridge, and had milk so made a pudding cake. The fist slice was very tasty. Then I made a plate of leftovers to hold me over night.


----------



## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> I made no-bake cookies...I’d share if you were closer!


OK, how do you make cookies without baking them?


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I had created a concoction of ACV/honey/water which was recommended for Beauty for her scours



Source... of that recommendation?


Bruce said:


> OK, how do you make cookies without baking them?


Most involve oatmeal and peanut butter and you bring the ingredients to a boil on the stovetop.
https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/16617/no-bake-cookies-v/
The photos below are from:
https://www.littledairyontheprairie.com/classic-chocolate-peanut-butter-no-bake-cookies/
and the full directions are there.


 
Heat, stir, bring to boil..add oatmeal...

 
stir some more..

 
drop them on a sheet and smoosh them out a bit

 
 
It works by the oatmeal absorbing most of the 'liquid" while they are sitting on the cookie sheet and the goo dries out a lot. You need to follow the written directions closely so you don't end up with a runny gooey mess that never hardens and you have to eat it off the sheet with a spoon.
DO wash the pan you brought the ingredients to a boil in.... as soon as you're done..don't ask how I know.

Some, you still make a thin dough of sorts, and pour the batter out on a skillet and cook them like miniature pancakes. ....
https://www.babble.com/best-recipes/apartment-cooking-how-to-make-cookies-on-the-stovetop/
Or, you can get yourself a Barbie Easy Bake oven ....


----------



## Mini Horses

LS your meal looks good.  I didn't cook!  Yep, ate some lentils I had cooked day before.  Nice.  Switched out new modem on computer that I received yesterday.  Been out of internet for a week    Also been off work all week, so did get a few things done around here...…..stayed off computer  except some solitare.    It was quiet day.  DD & DGD went to her dad's, DS went to girlfriends fam meal.  He brought me a plate about 10PM...nice thought.   I actually enjoyed a do nothing except feed chores day.   COLD out, 32 this AM and not far above this afternoon, windy.   Animals hung at barns, I hung at recliner.


----------



## Latestarter

My little dog is punishing me for leaving him outside tonight... It's not even cold at 48° Every hour, just about on the hour he has decided there will be some "threat" that must be pointed out, so he barks his damn fool head off until I get up, crack a window and tell him to shut the hell up!


----------



## Rammy




----------



## Latestarter

One of the best parts of large holiday meals is the leftovers!   Didn't get a lot of sleep last night due to the damned fool dog I have.  So was pretty tired when I crawled out of bed this morning. Got all the morning chores done and made my big mug of tea and already had my first plate full of left over food. A slice of chocolate pudding pie covered with whipped cream  Planning on REAL food leftovers for lunch and dinner. Maybe followed by another slice of pie. The only thing I've eaten off the turkey so far is the wings. My fave is the dark meat but will prob mix that with some white with gravy. I'll save most of the white meat for sandwiches and turkey salad. I may make a nice rich soup with the carcass and whatever meat is left. OH, also got a bonus with this bird... it had 2 necks  More for the soup pot!

So Beauty is back to her beautiful self this morning. Ate her pellets right along with the others, fought with her co-kids at the hay and then moved to the other hay buckets to sample some of the other does' as well. She did poop while eating and everything came out perfectly fine as nice tiny hard little balls of processed goat food. Guess she had something akin to what we sometimes suffer as a 24 hour stomach bug. Something she ate most likely. I'm just glad it wasn't anything serious.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Way to go "goat daddy" !  I guess you will be eating well for a few days... the best part for me is the left overs and ohhhh the sandwhichs, mayo and chips on the side...yummy. glad Beauty is feelin well again...will keep that that recipe for the "trots" on my list...ta ta for now


----------



## Mini Horses

Turkey carcass soup -- always a winner.  Plus, I generally freeze a couple containers for those cold days when I don't want to cook.  Warm & satisfying.

Ahhh -- I have collards for breakfast.   Mine are cooked with more ham broth but, they were good.  Have turkey for a noon sandwich.  No dessert sent to me   Will just eat some of my dark choc/caramel squares (compliments of Ghiradelli).   OR, may bake a tray of brownies later.  It's still cold & windy out.

I'm already hating what winter is going to give me!!


----------



## Latestarter

Well, the goats have their dance floor back. I'm tired and sore and need a shower, some pain killers, and recliner time. Got the front and rear wall installed and a sheet of OSB up on each to provide stability. Got the center wall framed and installed as well. Next 4 days are supposed to be sunny. Some days windy, and temps much cooler than the 75 we had today, but that's OK. As long as the body isn't too whacked out tomorrow, I hope to get the last two outer walls framed and installed and get some more OSB up. Was too dark when I was able to come in as I stopped working and went directly into doing animal chores. Will try to get some pics tomorrow to post.

Had a slice of pie with whipped cream for breakfast before I headed out to start, and had the final slice with whipped cream when I got done and came in. That's all I've had to eat today. No real appetite to make up leftovers right now.


----------



## Baymule

Pie makes good breakfast food and when you've worked all day, are tired and sore, pie is comfort food. Congrats on the progress!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> Well, the goats have their dance floor back. I'm tired and sore and need a shower, some pain killers, and recliner time. Got the front and rear wall installed and a sheet of OSB up on each to provide stability. Got the center wall framed and installed as well. Next 4 days are supposed to be sunny. Some days windy, and temps much cooler than the 75 we had today, but that's OK. As long as the body isn't too whacked out tomorrow, I hope to get the last two outer walls framed and installed and get some more OSB up. Was too dark when I was able to come in as I stopped working and went directly into doing animal chores. Will try to get some pics tomorrow to post.
> 
> Had a slice of pie with whipped cream for breakfast before I headed out to start, and had the final slice with whipped cream when I got done and came in. That's all I've had to eat today. No real appetite to make up leftovers right now.


I have faith in you , you will get it done. And we will get back to chicken house...going to bed so sadness leaves faster


----------



## Latestarter

Knew I needed something so made a turkey sandwich with white meat, mayo, & lettuce on whole wheat. Side of crunchy Cheetos, the last of the cranberry sauce and some crystal light tea to complete the meal and now chewing a couple of tums before going to bed to hopefully ward of the acid reflux I know I've probably earned  Having 2 hours of recliner has helped. Sleep will no doubt help even more.  Where I'm headed when done here.


----------



## Bruce

Great news on the goat house Joe!!


----------



## Latestarter

Today started off warm, very damp, cloudy, and really windy. The winds picked up over the day and the temp fell steadily all day. I guess it was around 60-65 at the high point this morning, and was down in the upper 40s by dusk. 38° right now with anticipated low around 30. Tomorrow winds are supposed to be much less... say maybe 5-10 mph or so and the high around 50. Didn't work on the goat shed today. Hands and wrists were OK, but the knees were barely working. They feel a lot better now than they have all day so I hope to be back out there working again tomorrow. Forecast for later in the week has day highs back in 60s-70 and night temps in the 50s  No "real" expectation of rain in the near term either.


----------



## Baymule

It’s cold this morning but the sun is coming up and it promises to be a beautiful day. It’s windy, but nice. We have a few little things to do outside today.


----------



## Latestarter

31° right now. still a little breezy so feels colder. All the goats pigged out as usual on their pellets but weren't all that eager for their hay this morning. Made up of flakes from the center of the bale they've been eating on for several days.  Oh well... it's out there for them when they decide they want it. Still a lot of left knee pain but anticipate getting back to work around lunch time when it warms up a bit.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Rain and thunder here...thought i would do housework....movie sounds better


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Be sure to take pictures once you are finished!


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> 31° right now. still a little breezy so feels colder. All the goats pigged out as usual on their pellets but weren't all that eager for their hay this morning. Made up of flakes from the center of the bale they've been eating on for several days.  Oh well... it's out there for them when they decide they want it. Still a lot of left knee pain but anticipate getting back to work around lunch time when it warms up a bit.


Hope it warms up for ya. It's rainy and 37 here. A lot warmer than Thanksgiving day and Black Friday.


----------



## Mike CHS

The cold seems to make any aches just that much worse.


----------



## rachels.haven

x2. "Baby It's Cold Outside" takes on a whole different meaning when you've got joint or muscle issues to take into consideration.


----------



## Mini Horses

Mike CHS said:


> The cold seems to make any aches just that much worse.



YEP.   Aging does this.      It's why we are called "tough".   I wear more long johns in a week than I did in the first 30 years of life.


----------



## Bruce

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Be sure to take pictures once you are finished!


No no, we need "progress" pictures too!


----------



## Baymule

Mini Horses said:


> YEP.   Aging does this.      It's why we are called "tough".   I wear more long johns in a week than I did in the first 30 years of life.


Skip the long johns, get some flannel lined blue jeans and go over them with Carhartt insulated coveralls.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Skip the long johns, get some flannel lined blue jeans and go over them with Carhartt insulated coveralls.


*EXACTLY* what I do! Those Carhartts are really good.


----------



## RollingAcres

On really cold days (in the teen or single digit temp) I'll wear my snow bib and snowmobile jacket. Those keep me very warm and by the time I walk back to the house I'm usually sweating.


----------



## Mini Horses

I have & wear some snow ski bibs.  Lightweight, extremely warm!  Love mine.  Will buy more If I ever find any more at 2nd hand (where I got these).

Hard to find lined jeans locally.   JJ Bean has but, $$.  May have to break down & spend.  Actually I like the tight long johns...tight to my skin.  Seems to be a better heat retention for me.

Geesh -- we are all trying to keep warm and what we WANT is an update from LS.   Hope your hands and knees are finding some relief right now.   That got to be a hard row to how with swollen, painful, stiff joints that need to function.  

How are the hens doing for you?


----------



## RollingAcres

LS is prolly still in food coma from all that leftover Thanksgiving feast he had! 

We bought out snow bibs years ago when we used to have snowmobiles. We sold the snowmobiles a while ago but kept all the gears since they were bought and paid for. It would be too expensive to buy again new sets if/when we can afford to have snowmobiles again.

I don't light those long johns, too tight and too warm. lol

MH, have you checked Walmart? I know they have some lined jeans. Might have to order from Walmart.com


----------



## B&B Happy goats

@Mini Horses.  Have you tried the silk long johns ? They are so warm and extreamly lite weight.... i even had the top on this morning here  in Florida. It is the damp cold, but no snow ...thank goodness !


----------



## Mini Horses

B&B Happy goats said:


> @Mini Horses. Have you tried the silk long johns ?



Have several pairs.  They are light and fit like pantyhose, kinda.   I often have to stand by a lot of cooler/freezer bunkers at demos.  Those silk ones lay well under dress pants/shirts that we must wear.  No jackets allowed!    They are warm and snuggly.  For some long underwear can be too warm.  Just wait until you get older!   Much colder now than before.  You just don't generate the heat in your extremities you once did.  OK, skinny leg/arms.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

@Mini Horses  tell me your older than me at  66 and i will fall backwards, lol...and i am waiting to get older, and hope i do so for a long time...no rush here !


----------



## Mini Horses

@B&B Happy goats  yes, I am.   Will be a rowdy 73 in Jan.   Hang in there, you have more issues to face.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Mini Horses said:


> @B&B Happy goats  yes, I am.   Will be a rowdy 73 in Jan.   Hang in there, you have more issues to face.


well i couldnt  get it to fall backwards so i owe you one.....my siblings call me a dinosaur,  lol..you mean the creaking  of the bones gets worse ? I need WD 40  in my joints now !....happy early birthday


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry to report that the knee was uncooperative yesterday and both hands and wrists as well as the knee decided they needed today off. Beginning to seriously consider "selling out" and buying a motor home or pull trailer and becoming a "snow bird" that wanders the country following nice weather/seasons.


----------



## Rammy

Dont do that. Just give yourself a few days of me time and rest.  You might just feel better with a couple days of me time.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> Sorry to report that the knee was uncooperative yesterday and both hands and wrists as well as the knee decided they needed today off. Beginning to seriously consider "selling out" and buying a motor home or pull trailer and becoming a "snow bird" that wanders the country following nice weather/seasons.


Dude... you are kidding about sellin out right ? ...understand the body aches..., Yankees  don't  quit, and you still got some in you...its in your DNA......its not warm in florida....40 here...aches will get better....you have been real busy... S....L....O...W    D.....O....W....N


----------



## Mini Horses

It isn't time to give up!   BUT -- no doubt that constant swollen, stiff, painful joints would be a real downer, causing such considerations.   Gout, I've been told by other than you, is a real problem since it apparently just rears its ugly head quickly and hangs around for a while.   No doubt you have read up on things that can "help" -- maybe you have even tried some, beyond meds.   Can your Dr give you that "old" RX you once said helped you more?  They say 90% if gout sufferers are men.

With gout, uric acid levels are high, then create crystals and pain.  You may be low on certain enzymes that destroy uric acid.   Probably your Dr has suggested less meat and more veggies (except a few & your beloved mushrooms!), less sweets, etc.    Not a fun diet.  OH, lots of cherries & strawberries (or pure juice of) as these all reduce the uric.   Dang, I guess I need to drive down and do your shopping & cooking!  A controlled test.  

Most often dietary considerations, including herbals quite often, do not work as fast as meds but, generally do work and generally long term.  Some foods aggravate your condition.   Plus adequate SLEEP is much more important the older we get, so I find.

Before you sell and drive, TRY a month of strict dietary selections.   What have you got to lose?
Maybe you have & it didn't work   But I don't think  Mel and Elf are wanting to ride for far or long.   

That's my soapbox for now.    Where's @Devonviolet when I need back up???


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Latestarter said:


> Beginning to seriously consider "selling out" and buying a motor home or pull trailer and becoming a "snow bird" that wanders the country following nice weather/seasons.



Mr. @Latestarter, you may want to think long and hard about selling out.  My wife and I were planning on going RVing full-time after I retired.  We watched so many YouTube channels of people doing exactly that.  But the more we thought about it, the more it troubled us that we would have no place to which come home if we got tired of traveling.  You may reach that point, and then what would you do?  It's your life, and you may love it -- several YouTubers have been doing it for years and they love it.  But it was the lack of a permanent base that made my wife and me decide to look for a place in the country, and I am glad we did.  Perhaps you may want to downsize by getting rid of your goats.  Anyway, I'm sure you will think it through before making a big decision like that.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Rammy

Or you could build me a house on the back 40 and I can move in...............just sayin.............


----------



## Mini Horses

Heck, Rammy -- you could just stay in his house while he RV'd  

My late DH & I did a lot of RVing & other traveling.  It got tiring after we'd "seen it all"...we did always keep a home, however.  It wasn't a full time thing but we would go for a few months, then return.  One day I just said "no more", just 2-3 weeks maybe every 3-6 months.  Still did several trips like that.


----------



## Rammy

Mini Horses said:


> Heck, Rammy -- you could just stay in his house while he RV'd
> 
> My late DH & I did a lot of RVing & other traveling.  It got tiring after we'd "seen it all"...we did always keep a home, however.  It wasn't a full time thing but we would go for a few months, then return.  One day I just said "no more", just 2-3 weeks maybe every 3-6 months.  Still did several trips like that.



Why didn't I think of that?  Good idea!! I can take care of the goaties and Mel can sleep in the bed with me  ........He would never want LS to come back.    Hahaha..................Hmmmmmm............ideas, ideas............


----------



## Latestarter

Mel outweighs you by a few pounds and stretched out is about your height. He's also a bit strong and if he decided to stretch, you'd be on the floor! Thankfully, unlike Elf, Mel doesn't get up on the furniture. Since his fur is full of dirt from his outside bed excavations, coupled with his constant shedding to varying degrees, I personally prefer he stays out in the pasture with his goats. He does enjoy his inside time though.


----------



## Rammy

Anything you say, Sweetie! hahaha.........just kidding!!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I bought a diesel  truck and a 36 foot fifth  wheel...took off after selling one of my houses....it was the dumbist  thing i have done with money !   It is so expensive to park anywhere,  the cost of the fule yikes, let alone a woman and her dog traveling about...talk about weirdos.....after five months sold it all and started over with another house. There is no place like home.


----------



## greybeard

One of my cousins has done it, tho they did keep one of their homes as a hedge. Her and her spouse began doing it long ago when her hubby retired from the USAF.
A big motorhome, not a pull behind.
When her husband died, she continued to do it every summer, traveling from CenTex to as far away as Alaska and last year she and her adult daughter drove it to NY state, where she took a summer job in one of the Nat Parks she had stayed at. Her daughter flew home to return to work but my cousin stayed all 3 months before driving back to Tx alone.

One of my father's friends and his wife did it for years and years, and temporarily managed one of the KOA places in Nevada which gave the permanent manager the ability to travel elsewhere during the summer.
One thing you do have to do in order to easily live the full time RV lifestyle is establish and keep state residency (domicile)  somewhere with a  permanent  mailing address. PO Box doesn't qualify for a permanent address.
There are thousands and thousands of RVers with a residence on Rainbow Dr, Livingston Texas that have probably never seen the street more than 30 days.

For tax reasons, Fla, Tx and SD are the 3 most popular domicile states for permanent RVers.


----------



## Latestarter

Woke up this am with no serious pain anywhere. Hands and wrists were working and would hurt with any real stress, but worked. The knee was functioning as well. Again, long as no real stress put on it. SO after animal chores this am I came in and reclined until things could dry out from the frost/dew. Headed out after lunch and got all the walls up and completely anchored. Tonight it's only supposed to go down to mid 50s  Tomorrow should be low 70s with less wind. I hope to finish the walls completely tomorrow which will leave only the roof to do/finish.



 


 

Got tired of eating turkey so went out and picked up dog food for the dogs and a little ceaser's thin crust pepperoni pizza. You get what you pay for... 6 buck's worth.


----------



## Rammy

I like Little Caesars pizza. I get the $5 ready to go pizza sometimes on the way home. Looks like the goaties approve of thier new home. Progress looks good. Glad you were feeling better and was able to get things moving along with the new building.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Awesome  progress, i am impressed at how fast you got that done...must be in your DNA, ....NEVER quit the things you love, hope your pain stays at a distance for you


----------



## Mini Horses

Nice going!!  The girls appear to be checking it over for you.    heck, when the roof is on they may get so uppity as to not even speak.. (until feed time!)


----------



## Baymule

That is looking good! Progress sometimes comes real slow. You are getting there. I know the feeling of having inadequate shelter and the worry that goes with it. It will feel so good when you get the roof on, walls finished or not. Just getting the roof on will be so fantastic.


----------



## Mike CHS

Considering all of the physical things you have going, I want to add that getting that done by yourself is something to be proud of.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> Woke up this am with no serious pain anywhere. Hands and wrists were working and would hurt with any real stress, but worked. The knee was functioning as well. Again, long as no real stress put on it. SO after animal chores this am I came in and reclined until things could dry out from the frost/dew. Headed out after lunch and got all the walls up and completely anchored. Tonight it's only supposed to go down to mid 50s  Tomorrow should be low 70s with less wind. I hope to finish the walls completely tomorrow which will leave only the roof to do/finish.
> View attachment 55307
> View attachment 55308
> 
> Got tired of eating turkey so went out and picked up dog food for the dogs and a little ceaser's thin crust pepperoni pizza. You get what you pay for... 6 buck's worth.



Goat palace is looking good. Good to hear no serious pain so you can get those walls done soon.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

With the ongoing issues here, selling out has crossed my mind but I can’t imagine not living here. I can’t wrap my head around saying goodbye to all of my animals. Finally, I don’t want to live in town.


----------



## Latestarter

I definitely hear ya WH... Glad to hear you're feeling a little better. Having neighbors so close you can see the return address on envelopes sitting on their kitchen counter, from YOUR kitchen window, is something I can never return to. I think at this point the smallest I could realistically "accept" for a permanent living environment would be ~2-3 acres. Enough room for a little privacy, maybe a few animals, a small garden. etc. The thing is I ALSO won't accept lots of zoning, PUD, HOAs, etc laws and restrictions about what I can and can't do.

Joints are a little stiff and sore this am. Already 66° outside with light breezes and a little cloud cover. Discovered the youngest doeling, PB&J now has light scours. Looks similar to what Beauty went through a few days ago. Beauty's was watery, PB&J's is more "syrupy/jellied"... Will keep an eye on her and see if she clears up on her own. She's acting relatively normal and ate well this am.

Dot lost her collar somehow, somewhere, so had to spend another $18 and buy her a new one. When I noticed it was missing, I looked all over the inside of the night pen and couldn't find it there. I kinda looked under the goat mansion but didn't get down on hands and knees to look real deep under there. Thinkin' it's probably out in the pasture someplace.

Did some toenail clipping on Elf and the pullets this morning. Elf's dew claws were very sharp/pointed and could do some serious skin damage when he jumped up. His regular claws were fine from all his mole/vole digging. Chickens claws were getting long enough to turn their toes out. Mel does so much excavating that his claws don't really need trimming.

Gonna head back out shortly and get back to work.


----------



## Mini Horses

It's part of farming -- days when the "issues" make you think it is time to toss in the towel.

Then -- you come to your senses   -- knowing your could not be content elsewhere, without farm.


ETA:  LS you mention smaller.   I think of that at times, downsizing.  And just say -- hey, remove some fence and just cut grass!   I would even consider just haying it.   Have a local, on my street, who raises hay!  He'd work it if at least 5 acres.  I could do close to 10 acres, still have room for me, a couple goats & some chickens, a garden.  There are options.


----------



## greybeard

Mini Horses said:


> ETA: LS you mention smaller. I think of that at times, downsizing. And just say -- hey, remove some fence and just cut grass! I would even consider just haying it. Have a local, on my street, who raises hay! He'd work it if at least 5 acres. I could do close to 10 acres, still have room for me, a couple goats & some chickens, a garden. There are options



The only downside to downsizing in that manner is you still have/own the property and all it entails the rest of the year, with little or no return on it, financial and otherwise. Property taxes, appearance, at least some fencing and you don't get the grazing from it for the best part of the growing season. There are plenty of weeds that will come up in cold weather around here...cold hardy weeds that do well in winter. No matter what kind of agreement one might have with someone else, the cold truth is very few people if anyone will take care of your property/pasture etc as good as you will and it becomes troublesome to bear..even just to look at or watch happen.

I have thought about it a lot the last few months and have come to the conclusion that if I'm going to downsize (and I will) it has to be at a different location. I have too much emotional/historic  investment (54 yrs of family ownership) in this place to sit & watch what someone else will do with it. (downsizing in my case doesn't necessarily mean less acreage..just less work)


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well all of those issues have been on my plate for a while now, since the situation became so unstable for us....and am in full agreement with several on issues that were mentioned. It would have been very difficult to downsize where we were, but health and age were pushing us further than we could truly keep up. It was very difficult to give up our animals and what we knew as home.....but, now we can have a fresh start on a smaller place and have better knowledge of just what and how many other things we incorporate into a daily routine....one issue that will be rarely seen or dealt with here is severe cold and frozen water....however, there are more predators here and a longer period of heat, humidity, and the possibility of hurricanes to be avoided. I have come to accept that my time in the sun is very limited and will be inside in the AC most of the time. It has always been my opinion that when life loses its Joy and Fun it is time to change and find that "happy place" so there can be enjoyment once again.....when ya are in constant stress there can't be any enjoyment of life. This has been my experience and at least for now....I can relax a bit and focus forward. I really wish ya the best Joe and hope that ya can find some real relief from the ailments....so ya can get back to your enjoyment in life.....even if ya have to limit your dreams in order to have that enjoyment of life.....


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks Fred. Mostly it's just bitchin', moanin', and groanin'... Don't see myself selling out here in the near term. Hope you find that perfect happy place for you to finish out your years. Needs to be just big enough so you'll have a few things to keep you occupied so you don't turn into a 24/7 recliner bound rutabaga  I definitely understand the need for AC though. Can't fault ya there! 

Just sat down here at the puter. Feet are sore and I'm tired. Feeling a little stiff but it's from working, not from the usual crap. Grabbed a couple chunks of turkey (dark & white meat) and chopped it up with some celery, spices, and mayo so sitting here eating turkey salad. This will be the final turkey meal. The rest will go to the dogs for dinner. I'm "over" turkey for the time being.

By dinner time, PB&J was all done with her scours and back to pellets. She ate pellets and hay just fine and seems her same old self.  SO now I'll see if another of the yearlings comes down with it.

Finished 2 1/2 walls on the goat shanty. Probably could have forced myself to finish up that 3rd wall time wise, but I was almost out of screws so would have had to run to Home Depot and would have run out of light. 




 

No idea what tomorrow will bring pain wise or weather wise. Supposed to have severe T-storms tomorrow night into Sat morning. Supposed to increase the poss of rain over the course of the day tomorrow. I'll see how I feel and if I can bust hump tomorrow and get the roof done before finishing the final wall. At least that way they'll have a 3 sided closed in shelter. More than enough room for them all to fit inside out of the rain. If I can't get it done, I guess they can go under the floor one last time. Sure would be easier to feed them inside if its raining though...

So tomorrow morning, I'll head to HD and pick up more screws, get the corrugated polycarb roofing, roofing screws, and get back and see what I can get done. It's been a long process, but it's coming along finally.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

You are awsome...so impressed how much you have done... looks wonderful. ... Please reach back and pat yourself on the back, (if u can ) hope you are not hurting tommrow


----------



## CntryBoy777

Looks really good Joe and it will be a great blessing for ya too!!....when ya can ya should add some of the concrete squares from the gate to the house so ya can get better footing when it is wet or icy.....some spent hay on top of the ice or snow will keep ya from slipping and if it doesn't melt, then just add more on top....it worked for me....on the deck too.....


----------



## farmerjan

I don't think you realize that you are getting alot done since you are doing it all by yourself.  You are just seeing what still needs to be done, and not realizing that you really are making some good progress.  Hope the joints will let up enough for you to get it "more" done tomorrow and make chores a little bit easier. 
I get the joint aches and hurts.  When I test a couple of big farms in a week, like this week, I hurt so much I want to cry.... and still one more day tomorrow.  I can take about 2 to 2& 1/2 hours in the parlor at a time and still be able to function without being in dire pain, but these 3-4-5 hour farms, even with a 30 second/1 minute sit down in between groups of cows is just too much. And then you add the being on concrete, even with the mats in the parlors to help with the strain and cushioning.... just getting to be too much.


----------



## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> has suggested less meat and more veggies


You trying to kill poor Joe? He likes his meat. Same as me. Have never had gout and from the sounds of it, I don't want to either!



Rammy said:


> Or you could build me a house on the back 40 and I can move in...............just sayin.............


If he could build an entire house for you, he wouldn't need you there to help him build goat mansions!!



Latestarter said:


> I hope to finish the walls completely tomorrow which will leave only the roof to do/finish.






Latestarter said:


> Having neighbors so close you can see the return address on envelopes sitting on their kitchen counter, from YOUR kitchen window, is something I can never return to.


My sister can't see into the neighbor's houses real well, 6' high block walls. And close?? We pulled a plant and stuck it in a plastic 30 gallon trash can to take it out to the big 96 gallon "yard waste" can out at the road. If it hadn't been plastic I couldn't have changed its shape to get through the gate. NO THANKS!



Latestarter said:


> Mostly it's just bitchin', moanin', and groanin'


or "*gripes and grumbles" 
*


Latestarter said:


> Probably could have forced myself to finish up that 3rd wall time wise, but I was almost out of screws so would have had to run to Home Depot and would have run out of light.


I'm glad you didn't, doing too much in a day isn't good for all the painful parts. Tomorrow is another day. 

Goat mansion looks good, I bet the girls are really going to like it. Probably good to not enclose the last side too soon, they'll be confused as to how to get inside


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> You trying to kill poor Joe? He likes his meat. Same as me. Have never had gout and from the sounds of it, I don't want to either!
> 
> 
> If he could build an entire house for you, he wouldn't need you there to help him build goat mansions!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My sister can't see into the neighbor's houses real well, 6' high block walls. And close?? We pulled a plant and stuck it in a plastic 30 gallon trash can to take it out to the big 96 gallon "yard waste" can out at the road. If it hadn't been plastic I couldn't have changed its shape to get through the gate. NO THANKS!
> 
> 
> or "*gripes and grumbles"
> *
> 
> I'm glad you didn't, doing too much in a day isn't good for all the painful parts. Tomorrow is another day.
> 
> Goat mansion looks good, I bet the girls are really going to like it. Probably good to not enclose the last side too soon, they'll be confused as to how to get inside


----------



## Latestarter

So still way too wet today to work on the goat shack. So instead, I replaced the chicken bedding. When I got them, it was on a whim so I just doubled up a tarp and threw down some shavings with a 4' welded wire fence around them in the out bldg. Anyway, that was about 2 months or so ago and 2 are laying with a 3rd about to start. Not sure about #4/#5... Anyway, the shavings had turned to virtually dirt, and they'd shredded the tarp with their dust bathing. The floor under the tarp was wet but luckily they hadn't destroyed the floor. Pulled the tarp and all the bedding out the door, cleaned everything up and put down a sheet of new linoleum and clean shavings for them. They didn't want to leave the carrier so I ended up having to dump them out on the new bedding. Shortly after that, my #1 layer left me a nice fresh egg. 



 

 

When I went out to do animal chores at dusk, all the goats were inside their new shelter laying down chewing cud.   I guess it's not gonna be an issue getting them to use it when it's finished. I don't think I'll do anything on it tomorrow... Gonna veg and watch football, then get back to it on Monday. While at the home depot buying the linoleum today, I picked up a 5lb box of screws to have enough to finish the walls. Maybe I'll finish the walls tomorrow then start/do the roof on Monday... Hell, I don't know...  Guess I'll decide when I wake up and see how I feel.


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## Mike CHS

Vinyl is great for that use.  We have some in a couple of our areas.

Alabama and Georgia was a nail biter today.


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## B&B Happy goats

Well if it makes you feel better, i think you should let the wood dry some, take the day off, pig out and watch football.....just sayin.....


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## B&B Happy goats

Mike CHS said:


> Vinyl is great for that use.  We have some in a couple of our areas.
> 
> Alabama and Georgia was a nail biter today.


No kiddin, husband was sitting next to me in his BULLDOGS BOXERS....game done...I said you just assd up the sofa wearing them you ought to throw them in the trash !!!!


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## CntryBoy777

Well, just so y'all can be thankful....I'm sitting in the backyard with Gabbie listening to crickets chirp and getting to'e up with skeeters.....it is 74° here right now....in December.....


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## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> So still way too wet today to work on the goat shack. So instead, I replaced the chicken bedding. When I got them, it was on a whim so I just doubled up a tarp and threw down some shavings with a 4' welded wire fence around them in the out bldg. Anyway, that was about 2 months or so ago and 2 are laying with a 3rd about to start. Not sure about #4/#5... Anyway, the shavings had turned to virtually dirt, and they'd shredded the tarp with their dust bathing. The floor under the tarp was wet but luckily they hadn't destroyed the floor. Pulled the tarp and all the bedding out the door, cleaned everything up and put down a sheet of new linoleum and clean shavings for them. They didn't want to leave the carrier so I ended up having to dump them out on the new bedding. Shortly after that, my #1 layer left me a nice fresh egg.
> 
> View attachment 55417
> 
> View attachment 55418
> 
> When I went out to do animal chores at dusk, all the goats were inside their new shelter laying down chewing cud.   I guess it's not gonna be an issue getting them to use it when it's finished. I don't think I'll do anything on it tomorrow... Gonna veg and watch football, then get back to it on Monday. While at the home depot buying the linoleum today, I picked up a 5lb box of screws to have enough to finish the walls. Maybe I'll finish the walls tomorrow then start/do the roof on Monday... Hell, I don't know...  Guess I'll decide when I wake up and see how I feel.


I just figured out how you kept thoes chickens in that wire pen, they must be smart chickens.....AMMO,  so they can read ???


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## Latestarter

Actually, that's empty casings saved for reloading. I did it the easier way... I clipped both their wings flight feathers off


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## Rammy

CntryBoy777 said:


> Well, just so y'all can be thankful....I'm sitting in the backyard with Gabbie listening to crickets chirp and getting to'e up with skeeters.....it is 74° here right now....in December.....



Thats it, Fred, rub it in! Glad you are having some Gabbie time and hopefully will be in your own home soon.


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Guess I'll decide when I wake up and see how I feel.


Good answer!



CntryBoy777 said:


> Well, just so y'all can be thankful....I'm sitting in the backyard with Gabbie listening to crickets chirp and getting to'e up with skeeters.....it is 74° here right now....in December.....


Kinda the way it is in central Florida! Might want to change your location in your profile.


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## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Good answer!
> 
> 
> Kinda the way it is in central Florida! Might want to change your location in your profile.


Unless it's raining, lol


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## CntryBoy777

Now @Bruce , we are just visitin' til the papers are signed....ya know that chickens before the egg thing and putting a cart before the horse, also..........until I get a permanent address, I'm still a guest.....


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## Rammy

CntryBoy777 said:


> Now @Bruce , we are just visitin' til the papers are signed....ya know that chickens before the egg thing and putting a cart before the horse, also..........until I get a permanent address, I'm still a guest.....




Hopefully not a guest for much longer! Housewarming party coming soon!


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## B&B Happy goats

It's  no fun having houses guests for a extended period or being a house guest...i feel for you,


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## Bruce

CntryBoy777 said:


> Now @Bruce , we are just visitin' til the papers are signed....ya know that chickens before the egg thing and putting a cart before the horse, also..........until I get a permanent address, I'm still a guest.....


Or getting the chicks before building the coop?


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## Rammy

Rammy said:


> Anything you say, Sweetie! hahaha.........just kidding!!



This post! Page 601 of your thread.


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## Bruce

Yeah "sweetie", she was just kidding about the "anything" part.


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## B&B Happy goats

Ok latestarter...its  wednesday...where are you? Did you work on your goat castle and over do it and now you are quietly trying to recover ???  We have been very busy teasing you  and we miss you...answer the call please....BYH missed  you....


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## Latestarter

Planned to be here for a "few minutes" then get back to work on the goat shanty. Been over an hour trying to catch up on 60+ alerts  Too manby folks spend too much time on here posting  How's a person supposed to get anything accomplished elsewhere and keep up here Decided to work on roofing to day despite walls being incomplete. Supposed to have 3 days of cold rain so trying to have them a dry place to hang out and be fed.


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## Mike CHS

Hopefully if you are back at it you have some mobility restored.  I had to quit checking the alerts since there are so many of them but I do a fast scan in case someone has asked for something.


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## RollingAcres

For me it's "I'll get to them when I get to them" lol! If I see an alert that quoted my post then I'd look at it.


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## CntryBoy777

Just be sure to do enough of the roof that ya can have a spot to stand outta the rain while feeding them and to wait out a downpour before heading back to the house.....I had to hang out in the goat house a few times waiting for it to let up some, so I wouldn't get soaked going back.....


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## Mini Horses

I'd sure roof now for the rain!   You have the stud walls up, the paneling can go up another day...get the dance floor dry.   Everyone will like that 

YES, some days when I need to get a project done, have to restrict myself from the computer.   May still not get done but, helps.  I tell myself getting on the forums is a "reward" for doing my other work   Hey, rain & snow coming  -- those are computer days, if it's working    storms & satellite often are not compatible.

And...what about the Philly cheese?


----------



## Latestarter

Well, after putzing around here till almost noon, I did get the roof framing completed. I wasn't able to go get the panels and get them installed as it was just about dusk and animal chore time when I finished framing it out. So after animal chores I went to the depot and got the polycarb, translucent, UV protected, corrugated panels in gray and some in clear, as well as all the screws and the support pieces that go above the beam but below the panel for support. Also remembered to ask for my military 10% off this time, which was good for over $85.00 



 
Hope the weather holds off like it's forecast to do... It's supposed to start clouding up tonight and showers are supposed to start in the afternoon tomorrow then get heavier/steadier tomorrow night, and then pour all day Friday and into Saturday morning. The bad thing is it's supposed to be blowing in from the NE which is exactly opposite where weather normally comes from. That puts in blowing in the front where I've only got a 1/2 the wall finished and where both door opening are.   I hope they're wrong about that aspect...

So tomorrow, I'll start putting the roof on right after morning chores and after that's complete, I'll hope to have enough "dry time" to get the front wall finished.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Nice going today , you still have me awestruck  at how much you get done by yourself.....nice job my friend !


----------



## CntryBoy777

Coming right along Joe!!....and looking really good.....sure hope the weather holds off enough to get-r-done, so all of ya can enjoy it!!.........I know ya will be glad to have it completed enough to be truly usable and beneficial.....


----------



## Baymule

Supposed to start tomorrow about noonish. We are expected to get 4-6 inches of rain over the weekend through Sunday evening. Sure hope you can get the roof on so your goats can stay dry.


----------



## Mini Horses

Looking good!   

I expect it will be an early start for you in AM.   Know you will enjoy your football games over weekend much better with a roof in place.   You can sit in the recliner and nurse some sore hands, too.


----------



## Latestarter

My wrists are sore, but not an issue to work tomorrow (at least right now). My knees are complaining from all the ladder work, but I'm gonna have to motor on through tomorrow regardless. Physically, I'm tired, but not all that bad. When I went to buy the roof panels I made a mistake and stopped at McDonalds and bought a chicken sandwich and 2 cheeseburgers from their dollar menu, along with a large sweet tea. Big mistake. Not the tea, but the sandwiches. I hadn't eaten anything since breakfast and was hungry. I discarded the bottom buns off the 2 burgers and made it into one double cheeseburger. When I got home I offloaded the panels out back then collapsed in my recliner and just woke up with acid indigestion from the food...  Why I'm here. when done, off to bed.

OK... so here's what I'm "looking at" for forecast... Looks like chance of rain starting around 10am, Likely from noon on, pretty damn sure thing from ~5:30pm till some time Sunday...  I have to line up and screw down ~27 panels. 14 at 6' and 13 at 12', using approximately 720 screws.  Then 7 OSB panels to install to finish the 1.5 remaining walls. Doubt that will get done tomorrow but worth a shot. Hoping to get at least the three for the front done along with the roof.






The next issue is how much water is this roof gonna shed... "Multiply the square footage to be watered by .*62 gallons* or 1 inch of water per square foot. Example: 1,000 square feet x .*62 gallons* = *620 gallons*." (google)  Since my roof will cover ~400 square feet area wise, that equates to ~ 248 gallons/inch of rain.  So 4" of rain is ~ 1000 gallons of water. I need to get a gutter installed ASAP to prevent all that water from washing out the ground at the back of the shed under the drip edge.

Maybe I can get (down the road) some of those 275/330 gallon containers and line them up on the north side of the shack and route the rain to them for storage and later use for water troughs.  Jury rig them together connecting all of them with a single spigot/valve.  Lots to do.


----------



## Rammy

I put buckets under the overhang of my barn roof to catch the rainwater. Works pretty good. I had thought about doing gutters but the metal extends about a foot past the posts so dont think that would work. My neighbors Dad has three of the 250 gallon containers like you pictured with it set up so one flows into the next when it gets filled up. He uses them to water his huge garden.


----------



## Latestarter

Ummm "buckets" might work for a sprinkle, but it'll take a lot of buckets to handle even 1 inch of rain @ ~250 gallons...  I have some lengths of PT 2x6 and 2x8 left over from the floor joists laying out there. I think for now I'll just lay them on the ground under the drip edge. At least it will stop/lessen the pounding erosion of the water falling.

Up extra special early. Still dark outside. Hands are at ~50%, knees at ~75%. swallowed a bunch of pain killers/anti-inflammatories... Hope they kick in quick. Rain edge is over by Wichita Falls or ~250 miles to the west. Looks to be moving about 25-30MPH, so 8-10 hours till it gets to me. Probably sooner.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Hope you make substantial progress.  We're supposed to get that rain here too...ugh.  Forecast is from 3 to potentially 8 inches of the wet stuff.  Ugh.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter, sir,

I would love to come help you, but after only a few minutes you'd soon tire from telling me over and over again, "No, dummy, hold the other end of the hammer!"

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Latestarter, sir,
> 
> I would love to come help you, but after only a few minutes you'd soon tire from telling me over and over again, "No, dummy, hold the other end of the hammer!"
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## greybeard

Lightly sprinkling here now, rain expected to begin early tonight. Tomorrow will be fun.


----------



## Latestarter

Too funny STA...  Thanks, as sore as I am right now, I needed that! My knees are done. Wrists and hands are sore but still working (obviously). My back is screaming "warning, warning, warning!" Like, any more and it's gonna go too.

Cloudy from the time I woke up and humidity increasing. Felt the first sprinkles around 1pm. Steady misty/light rain by ~ 3pm. I got 1/2 way through and picked up a smoke gray panel only to find it was cracked and had holes punched in it.   I pulled from the rack in groups, so never saw it until I started separating them out to use them. It was right in the center of a group of 5. I bought 20, so there was no issue with them hanging over the tail gate. Returning just the one and bringing back one is gonna be a PITA. 

So I continued to work as long as I could. When the deck got too slippery for the ladder, I figured that was it. I couldn't finish anyway with the one damaged panel. So here's where we are now. I have 2 more rows to put up, one more short clear panel and then the end smoke gray one.
:


 
The "blue" panels are actually a smoke gray color and translucent. They are UV treated and reduce sunlight to ~37%. The "white" ones are actually clear, also UV treated but let full light in. I fed them their evening pellets inside and that was one royal cluster... Bang was running between all the buckets which had everyone going crazy. Since the wall in the center is just studs, there was no way to stop them all from running and freaking out. When I brought them their hay, it was a little better and I managed to keep them to their normally assigned groups.

They have no excuses now if they get wet.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Wow.....you did it, congratulations  still don't  know how you managed to do it alone....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

You did good!  Congrats!


----------



## farmerjan

I'm impressed  @Latestarter  ;  that's pretty cotton picking good with the time frame you were working in.  Yeah, PITA to return the panel;  but the goats have an  80% done building for the shelter part... there will the usual jockeying for position but they can all get in out of the worst of it. And God forbid, even if someone gets kicked out, they can still get underneath if absolutely necessary...  So let them get over it.  Obviously, Bang is a little bit over the top, so if necessary, clip her with a lead so that she cannot go from bucket to bucket, tie her to the studs that will be part of the center divider, subdue her in some way,  and it might be able to stop some of the chaos. 

I think you did very good.


----------



## Mini Horses

farmerjan said:


> subdue her in some way, and it might be able to stop some of the chaos.
> 
> I think you did very good.



I so agree with that!!   BOTH things.  

Take some pain meds, use heat, cold --whatever works best for you -- relax!  They are fine..hugely better than yesterday or last week.   Put a piece of fence on the divider wall to make Bang need to walk a long way around, LOL.   Relax and watch your football over the weekend -- you earned it.   

You can put most anything under the board to direct the drip line water off and beyond the areas you would prefer to stay drier, not wash away.  At some point, even a trench ( little hoe work)could divert an accumulation beyond the point of most concern.  It will help until you work out another collection system.


----------



## Mike CHS

Derek Henry just ran 99 yards for a touchdown for the Titans.  

Your goat castle looks great by the way.  I do a ton of stuff by myself so I can appreciate how much effort it takes for you to have gotten that done.  I keep a couple of 10' foot 2x4's around to use as a base just to be able to haul long items.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Returning just the one and bringing back one is gonna be a PITA.


Lay a couple of 2x4x12 in the bed of the truck.



Latestarter said:


> I have 2 more rows to put up, one more short clear panel and then the end smoke gray one.


YAY!!!! Good work there Joe!


----------



## Latestarter

I am a BYH addict... It's been 4 hours since my last post...   Most of it has been spent dozing in my recliner. Most of the really bad pain has mitigated some. I can hear the goats' hooves bouncing around out in their new shack. I'd like to put on my head lamp and go look to see how they're all positioned in there, but I don't want to get them all stirred up. It's been continuing light rain pretty steady since my last post. Heaviest rain isn't supposed to hit till tomorrow & on into Saturday. Now they forecast partly sunny on Sunday. If we get the rain they're saying, it's gonna take days for everything to dry back out again. So doesn't look like I'll be doing anymore shack work till probably mid week next week. Maybe Sunday I'll try to get that bad panel returned/replaced.

Mel and Elf are both inside.   Mel told me he did extra barking over the past couple of days to "get ahead" on scaring the coyotes away so he wouldn't have to stay out in the rain.  Elf has taken to standing on top of the jacuzzi cover, staring in the window at me and whining   First time I saw his face there when I looked out the window it freaked me out. Had NOT expected that. Mel was extra needy and wouldn't let me alone. Couldn't figure out what he wanted. Then it dawned on me, he wanted to go in my bedroom and sleep on the carpeted floor at the foot of the bed.  I normally have the back of the house blocked off and my bedroom door closed when they're inside because they bring in so much dirt. Floor needs vacuumed anyway, so I guess no big deal.


----------



## Latestarter

I have a few 12' 2x4s left over from the construction. I plan on using 2 of them to support the panel(s).


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I'd like to put on my head lamp and go look to see how they're all positioned in there, but I don't want to get them all stirred up.


Game camera?


----------



## Mike CHS

When we had our ewes in a shelter we put one of our security cameras in so we could see what was going on.


----------



## Bruce

Maybe you can have "picture in a picture" on your TV. Game and goats.


----------



## CntryBoy777

That is really looking Great there Joe!!.........glad the pain has subsided some for ya....sure hope ya can get the much needed rest.....it'll take them a couple of days to figure out who gets what area and settle down some....glad the rain held off enough for ya to get almost done with it and it is a shame that the one piece had the defects in it.....it happens quite often to me, too....


----------



## Latestarter

Remember Pearl Harbor day. Not many military folks from that time period are still with us.

Man... It is a perfectly @Sheepshape kinda day here . 44°f (6.6°c), gray, cloudy, drizzly, cold, damp... Just the kinda day to sit by the/a fire with a good book, and a nice hot drink. Looked at the radar and we have a LOT more rain headed this way. It's going to be one laid back, stay inside kinda day. I don't have my wood stove fired up as it's not cold enough and it would get too hot inside. Left wrist/hand is really aggravating me since last night. Pretty much locked up. Gonna use the recliner and keep ice packs on it today and hopefully that will relieve the heat/pain/pressure

It was misting at feeding time this morning so I fed the goats their pellets inside the shack once again. It was funny as the time approached... I'd see several of them step out and look around the corner at the house to see if I was coming, yell at me to hurry up, then turn and jump back inside.   Went much better this time as they realized what was happening and how to deal with it. Had to sweep it out first though. It's amazing how many poop berries 10 goats can produce in 12-18 hours!  Right now I've been just giving them a good push with the broom, out the doorways. Already know that's gonna be a no go sooner rather than later. Elsewise I'm going to have "poop" hills/ramps up to the entrances. I think I'll look for a cheap (or used) wheel barrow that I can leave out there and sweep out the door into that, then transport to the compost pile. I don't want to have to keep bringing my good barrow in and out every time I need it, which it now appears will be relatively frequently.

Since the mist had temporarily stopped when they were done with their pellets, I fed them their hay outside. Of course 1/2 way through that, it started raining again.

They all settled down inside last night and slept inside. I didn't see that any got "kicked out" and had to sleep underneath. I think it will be fine and be even smoother once I get the roof finished, the walls completed and the center wall boarded up so they will only have one 4' opening to move between either side, which I can block if I want/need to.


----------



## greybeard

On the outside, are you going to put anything over the osb?


----------



## Latestarter

I'm going to seal/paint it for sure, after that, I'm not 100% certain. I also expect to paint/seal the inside OSB surface as well. I've also decided that I'm going to Black Jack the floor and up the interior walls ~6" as well. Sadly, this late in the year, it's too cold to do so. I'll have to wait till spring and some warm/dry weather.


----------



## Baymule

I know your goats appreciate your hard work. It is looking good, and it will keep them dry. 

We scraped down to dirt, under the sheep shelter in expectation of lambs and put down pine shavings. 

Kick back, get something hot to drink and let it rain!


----------



## Baymule

Yes, today is Pearl Harbor Day. My Daddy was in the navy 8 years, before, during and after WW2. It's my brother's birthday too, he was a Vietnam veteran and has been gone for 5-6 years.


----------



## Rammy

My Mom was born three days after Pearl Harbor. Thats how I always remember what year she was born.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Baymule said:


> Yes, today is Pearl Harbor Day. My Daddy was in the navy 8 years, before, during and after WW2. It's my brother's birthday too, he was a Vietnam veteran and has been gone for 5-6 years.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Yes, today is Pearl Harbor Day. My Daddy was in the navy 8 years, before, during and after WW2. It's my brother's birthday too, he was a Vietnam veteran and has been gone for 5-6 years.


There are only 5 remaining USS Arizona survivors and they are all in their 90s and in health too poor to attend this year's Dec 7 memorial service. This will be the first year ever that there are no survivors present for the service, and their may never again be any physically present for it. 
The human connection to WW2 is fast beginning to be lost, just as it was with previous conflicts.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, the weather guessers got it right so far. It has been wet on wet and more wet to come. Haven't checked the rain gauge. No thunder and nothing pouring down, just steady and continuous.




Looks like Bay and Devon are getting it heavier than me but that big yellow blob w/sw of the arrow (me) is moving my direction.  Folks down Houston way are getting it heavier still Like FEM and GB... speaking of which, seems I recall not too long ago GB posted pictures of his back field with the river coming up... I wonder if that's happening again now? Been a lot of orange on the radar down his way. 

Finished animal chores a bit ago. Goats got fed in their new abode. Getting to be a much smoother evolution each time. Much more hay waste though as what they push out on the floor, they won't eat. Might have to feed them a lot less at a time so they don't dive for the best bits first, destroying all the rest in the process. Maybe if they're like really hungry, they'll be less picky and just dive in and eat vice digging down to the stuff on the bottom. Alternatively, I could feed them outside in the rain. Then they'll be more worried about getting wet and not want to be out there any longer than possible, so maybe again they'll just eat vice being so damned selective. Maybe I'm just feeding them too well/too high a quality stuff? 

So after washing my hands, I put a 1/2 chicken in the oven for dinner. Have a bowl of (Betty Crocker) cheesy scalloped potatoes I'll add to the oven here in about 10 minutes so they'll be done at the same time. Already added the boiling water, milk and butter so they'll have a bit to reconstitute before starting to cook. I've found that makes them cook and taste better. Getting hungry. Dinger just went off to put the potatoes in.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Our rain just started around 4pm and has been steady but not really heavy - so far.  Your dinner sounds tasty!


----------



## greybeard

It's been pouring here now for nearly 3 hours.
The river won't be back up again until the upstream water gets here. Maybe 96 hrs .....approx.

What I'm getting, points further NE are gonna get. This was a couple hours ago:




Nothin much changed since, except it's getting heavier.




Starting to get a little wind..
I'll be very surprised if the electricity stays on thru the night.


----------



## Baymule

It has been a steady drizzle all day and last night. At 4:30 this afternoon we had a little over an inch.


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## CntryBoy777

My brother said they got about the same at his house through the day with a high of 41.....rain through sunday with a chance of snow/freezing rain before it ends.....just miserable weather for sure. We are suppose to have thunder showers here on sunday from the same front, but temps will stay above 50 for lows.....


----------



## greybeard

_Through 8 AM Saturday morning

* A cold front extended from near Cleveland to Sugar Land to
Palacios and this features will continue to sag very slowly
southward tonight. The front may briefly stall as low pressure
develops along the front. The front coupled with a potent upper
level system will produce widespread showers and isolated
thunderstorms tonight with periods of heavy rainfall. Storm
total rainfall amounts of 2 to 6 inches are expected over most
of the area with slightly higher totals possible. Rainfall
should come to an end early Saturday morning.

* This episode of heavy rainfall could result in isolated flash
flooding along area roadways, underpasses and low lying areas as
well as small creeks and tributaries. The heavy rainfall and
runoff will likely lead to flooding on some of the ...blah blah blah.._

I have dumped 6+ inches since 5pm today. I need to take a ride and see how things are looking on the road leading in & out.


----------



## Sheepshape

Latestarter said:


> Man... It is a perfectly @Sheepshape kinda day here . 44°f (6.6°c), gray, cloudy, drizzly, cold, damp.


 Got it in one, Latestarter.....pretty similar in July, too. We've had the wood burner lit for about 6 weeks. Living in a traditional property with 2 foot thick stone walls and gaps everywhere, the temperature ALWAYS struggles to go up.

Our forecast today is again for heavy rain/hail. If it ever gets light today I'll take a few pics. so you get a visual idea, if not the feel of the climate.

Sorry to hear your wrist is sore,Latestart....I always turn to ibuprofen ( I think one of the brands is Advil in your parts).....in fact, there's always something aching these days. I hope it settles soon.

Clearly your goats don't like the weather (who can blame them?). My hill sheep (thick, waterproof-type fleece) barely seem to notice the rain. The Blue Faced Leicesters with their thin curls hate it, though.

5 weeks post pneumonia I'm still coughing as though I'm a 20-a-day user......if the damp would back off a bit, I'm sure things would improve.


----------



## Latestarter

Pneumonia is nothing to sneeze at... Hope you get the last of it over with soonest!


----------



## Sheepshape

Latestarter said:


> Pneumonia is nothing to sneeze at


 More something to cough at!  (Or in my case, grumble also......) Thank you.Latestarter.....I have my third lot of antibiotics just waiting for me to start if the cough doesn't die down soon.


----------



## greybeard

Could be worse but I just got in from getting those 2 flea bag horses back on the high side of the pond...I'm soaked thru and thru even with rain gear on..dunno why they went over on the other side. 
Had to trudge thru 2' of water in the dark to put lead ropes on to lead them back to where their barn is and lock the gate to keep them from doing it again. They'll come to me when I call and follow in daylight but I guess they're scared of me at night with a flashlight. Dummies


----------



## Sheepshape

OK so here's a 'normal Welsh winter' taken a few minutes ago (shortly before noon)....pictures unaltered.

My lane (The highway, that is).








 

 

 



 


These show the water on our lane, the last one showing the water from the road gushing onto our land.


----------



## Rammy

Beautiful pics. But also, wow, thats alot of rain. Are those your sheep in the pics?


----------



## Latestarter

As Rammy stated, beautiful pics. Thanks for sharing them! Now I better understand what you were talking about with the stream course entering your property. I don't know if I could live where it's gray and wet like that so consistently. I mean, I moved here because water was so scarce in Colorado, but I do appreciate my clear sunny days as well.

Just got up with a bit of a cough and chest grumble.   Hope it doesn't develop more fully. Water on for tea and still need to go feed animals. Glad you were able to catch up the horses GB. Bad enough having to worry about your own animals, but to then have to care for someone else's as well, I guess it could "get old"...

The radar shows the huge swirling low pressure area that's bringing us all this rain located over west central TX right now. It's as big around as a small hurricane. The bands coming off it have me in a bit of a lull period right now, sprinkling really lightly and not showing on the radar. But it sure looks promising to be a really wet next 24 hours or so, as forecast. Probably much heavier to the south down near GB and FEM.


----------



## CntryBoy777

The weather ya have been having with the seasonal changes is certainly condusive to sinus and respiratory issues....hope ya get passed it without much discomfort....we are still experiencing those issues here with the changes....having dealt with them in Mississippi and now here.....
It was probably the conditions and rain gear that spooked the horses a bit, GB....none of my animals ever liked it when I wore it, even in the daylight.


----------



## Baymule

With all this rain, I need to check on my sister in a little while. She lives in Conroe, close to the banks of the San Jancinto river. GB, you'll know where this is, she lives right off FM 2854 across from McDade park. 

It poured down last night, the rain woke me up and believe me, I was sleeping like a rock. LOL

@Sheepshape I sure do hope you get to feeling better. Pneumonia has a tendency to hang on long after it has worn out the un-welcome wagon. It can come back with a vengeance.


----------



## greybeard

Rain has almost stopped here, but the sky looks threatening. I can tell the cold front finally drifted thru.


Latestarter said:


> The radar shows the huge swirling low pressure area that's bringing us all this rain located over west central TX right now. It's as big around as a small hurricane. The bands coming off it have me in a bit of a lull period right now, sprinkling really lightly and not showing on the radar. But it sure looks promising to be a really wet next 24 hours or so, as forecast. Probably much heavier to the south down near GB and FEM.



No.. lighter here. What we were getting late yesterday evening and thru most of the night is now up in NE Texas and over in LA/Ark.

It's one of thos instances where radar can be deceiving. The low level  moisture is moving from SSW to NNE, but the mid level is driving..it moves the entire system to the East tho at a slower rate than the moisture is moving NNE.  Confounded, by high level cold air drifting south over the whole thing. The deep south will see some ice and snow out of this system as it all moves to the East and then if history follows thru, up the Eastern seaboard.
The light blue out to the West and over Tenn is winter mix.
(Temp currently is 48F here...that's the forecast high for the day...it was 70 yesterday around 1pm)
Current:


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> With all this rain, I need to check on my sister in a little while. She lives in Conroe, close to the banks of the San Jancinto river. GB, you'll know where this is, she lives right off FM 2854 across from McDade park.
> 
> It poured down last night, the rain woke me up and believe me, I was sleeping like a rock. LOL


Just localized low area street flooding last night in some places around here. River stages for both forks won't be up anywhere significantly until tomorrow or tomorrow night at the earliest..maybe even Monday...when the upstream water gets down stream.. This is not even a fraction of harvey.

My river current conditions and forecast...note, it is in feet above dry streambed. Record set during Harvey was 27.17 ft.





West Fork gage at Conroe....this is stated in 'feet above sea level'. The record flood for this river at this gage was during Harvey at 126.93 ft.




Interactive map showing river and lake levels according to usgs gages.
https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/index.php?wfo=hgx


----------



## Baymule

Thanks for the report GB. Nope, this ain't a fly speck on the wall next to Harvey. They got 7-8 feet of water in their house then.


----------



## Sheepshape

Rammy said:


> Beautiful pics. But also, wow, thats alot of rain. Are those your sheep in the pics?


 Yes Rammy....those are my girls, who seem to shrug it off (plus Jumping Jack Flash...the long looking sheep on the left with the red mark on the back ......so called because he belongs to my neighbour and constantly jumps over 4-5 fences to join my girls when they start coming into season...that's the Jumping Jack bit, The Flash bit refers to his obvious charms. The ladies adore him. Last year he was 100% on target with the girls....every single one pregnant, When returned to his owner, he reappears within 48 hours, even when he was take nearly a mile away. We now let him stay until all the girls are well on their way)

Here's what the poor things have to contend with.




 

Here's what we have to contend with, too. Those footprints are all mine from when I have been filling the feeders.

Well, I hope that you have all managed to keep your heads above the water.

I promise to take some pics. when the place looks at it's best....well, if I have time in the 2 days of summer when that occurs.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah... that "lull" I talked about... not so much. Just got in from feeding and the wind is cold & whipping out of the east/northeast and driving rain. The shelter is providing a little shelter. When I got out there, 4 of the adults (the bossiest of course) were inside the shelter in the driest corner against the back wall. The rest were underneath. They all came out to eat though. I'm sure they'll end up back underneath again. Thankfully, this is supposed to move out tonight and tomorrow will start the clearing.

ETA: not a single drip from the roof where the screws are. I didn't screw down the "bitter edge" where I stopped and the wind is lifting that a bit. I hope it doesn't "pop" the panel over the screw heads...


----------



## Baymule

I still haven't dragged myself outside yet. I made some sassafras tea over on the Coffee thread, help yourself.


----------



## Baymule

@Sheepshape I may complain about the sand we live on, but at least we don't get mud! The sand soaks up all it can, then it locks molecules and the rest runs off to go be somebody else's problem. LOL


----------



## Rammy

Sheepshape said:


> Yes Rammy....those are my girls, who seem to shrug it off (plus Jumping Jack Flash...the long looking sheep on the left with the red mark on the back ......so called because he belongs to my neighbour and constantly jumps over 4-5 fences to join my girls when they start coming into season...that's the Jumping Jack bit, The Flash bit refers to his obvious charms. The ladies adore him. Last year he was 100% on target with the girls....every single one pregnant, When returned to his owner, he reappears within 48 hours, even when he was take nearly a mile away. We now let him stay until all the girls are well on their way)
> 
> Here's what the poor things have to contend with.
> 
> View attachment 55644
> 
> Here's what we have to contend with, too. Those footprints are all mine from when I have been filling the feeders.
> 
> Well, I hope that you have all managed to keep your heads above the water.
> 
> I promise to take some pics. when the place looks at it's best....well, if I have time in the 2 days of summer when that occurs.



So you get free breeding from the neighbors ram? Cant beat that as long as you dont mind. It sure sounds like your girls dont. 
Your lot looks like the front area of my pasture where my cows like to congregate. I have to tuck my jeans into my boots or they are muddy up to my ankles.
I think your place looks just fine. Its a farm! Nothing prettier than that. Just watch your step out there!


----------



## Sheepshape

Rammy said:


> Cant beat that as long as you dont mind. It sure sounds like your hirls dont.


 The girls are VERY happy. Jumping Jack is a good ram....so I don't mind....The neighbour....also perfectly happy. And Jumping Jack Flash?.....no need to ask.

Sorry, Latestarter...I'm 'flooding' your thread......


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Thanks for the report GB. Nope, this ain't a fly speck on the wall next to Harvey. They got 7-8 feet of water in their house then.


West Fork down river at Humble is probably already in flood stage but it don't take much at all to overflow there.


----------



## Rammy

Sorry @Latestarter. Oooops! I did it again. Dont mean to. When I answer a post I sometimes forget whos thread it is. Sowwy.


----------



## Baymule

Just talked to my sister. She said the river isn't even up in the park (next to the river) so no worries-yet. For her, it isn't the local rains, it is the rains in the Dallas area that causes it to flood on her end.


----------



## Latestarter

Glad none are swimming yet and hope it doesn't come to that. I don't think my rain gauge is accurate... I dumped 1.25" out this morning and my buckets had close to 3" in them...  Same situation end of day today... been raining all day, gauge doesn't show what the buckets do.  I have streams across my property, the pen is ankle deep mud where it hasn't washed down to sandy clay. And radar shows we are just about done as the wrap around bands on the back side are moving out now.

Just sat down with a plate of lamb burger helper. Made the 4 cheese lasagna this time and doctored it to 5-6 cheese blend. Added a few extra noodles, some parmesan, romano, motz, and, a colby/monterey jack blend. Have 2 more expired boxes left to use up. Recommended use by some time late 2016. Tastes mighty danged good to me 

Goats wanted to eat their hay outside tonight. They all wandered outside the pen to wait for me when I went to fill the feed buckets for them. Even though it was still sprinkling, I went ahead and let them have the hay outside. When they were done, I got my last bag of pine flakes  and spread them inside the shack where they were under the finished roof so hopefully don't get direct rain.




Figured it would help absorb some of the moisture they carry in as well as from their poop and pee in there and wind blown rain spray. We'll see how it worked out tomorrow morning when I go out to feed them.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have had a bit over 2" of rain today and it never stopped.  It was never raining hard but steady enough that every time I went out to do chores, I got soaked.  I usually have to haul between 10 - 15 gallons a day for the calves but I didn't need to add any today.


----------



## CntryBoy777

The discrepency between the gauge and the buckets is due to the bucket sides not being perfectly straight....the circumfrence of the rim and the bottom of the bucket are not equal, thus it isn't a true reading of what has fallen....plus the bucket probably isn't as close to level and is an elipse instead of a concentric circle as the gauge is.....hope the moisture ends for ya soon....they are calling for ice just north of Memphis before morning...according to my brother....


----------



## greybeard

Lubbock Texas got 8-11" of snow Fri night thru Sat morning........


----------



## Bruce

Got their whole allotment for the month in one dump!



Mike CHS said:


> We have had a bit over 2" of rain today and it never stopped.  It was never raining hard but steady enough that every time I went out to do chores, I got soaked.  I usually have to haul between 10 - 15 gallons a day for the calves but I didn't need to add any today.


That is the payment for getting soaked several times.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Just talked to my sister. She said the river isn't even up in the park (next to the river) so no worries-yet. For her, it isn't the local rains, it is the rains in the Dallas area that causes it to flood on her end.


Is that the one on the West Fork SJ river?
Dallas area rains don't affect the West fork or East fork of that river.  Dallas is 170 miles North of Huntsville. Those Dallas rains affect the Trinity. 

_"*WEST FORK OF THE SAN JACINTO RIVER*. The West Fork of the San Jacinto River rises seventeen miles west of Huntsville in western Walker County (at 30°39' N, 95°51' W) and flows southeast ninety miles through Montgomery County to its confluence with the East Fork of the San Jacinto River on the northern rim of Lake Houston in northeastern Harris County (at 30°02' N, 95°09' W). "_



 

_SAN JACINTO RIVER BASIN The headwaters of the San Jacinto River are in Grimes and Walker Counties. The basin is fan shaped and the main stream flows in a southeasterly direction in to San Jacinto Bay, then through Trinity Bay into Galveston Bay and the Gulf of Mexico. Elevation ranges from a_


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Hey latestarter...you have been quiet today....are you ok ?


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> Maybe you can have "picture in a picture" on your TV. Game and goats.



I used to do this with my cams when I was foaling mini horses.   4 cams going.  Also had a monitor by my bed.   Used a device on their halters that would buzz  me when they laid out -- which they normally do when pushing -- but, often awoke to see them sleeping better than me.  


today:
Rain & mud?   I thought I would get that.  Weather reports show me "on the line" between rain/snow, for winter mix. Yeah!   I awoke to 30 degrees and snow.  Came down hard & thick....3" at 11 AM.  Thankfully it stopped.....heavy winds and cold!   Hauled a lot of hay today.  slipped a couple times but managed to stay upright


----------



## CntryBoy777

Hope the weather is kinder to ya Joe and ya have recovered some from the intense labor ya have been doing.....


----------



## B&B Happy goats

just dropped by to see if you have been home ...guess your still out


----------



## Rammy

I hear ya knockin but you cant come in.....(singing). 
Arent you all glad you cant really hear me sing?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Rammy said:


> I hear ya knockin but you cant come in.....(singing).
> Arent you all glad you cant really hear me sing?


Yes lol......, but i can follow you


----------



## Bruce

Rammy said:


> Arent you all glad you cant really hear me sing?


How would we know if we are happy about that??


----------



## B&B Happy goats

It's  just a wild guess  lol...@Bruce....where is our friend latestarter ...im starting to worry...oh, yippee. ..just saw him posting


----------



## RollingAcres

I say LS has another stalker.....


----------



## Rammy

Back off, woman!


----------



## Bruce

Uh oh, @Latestarter is starting to get a harem!


----------



## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> Back off, woman!


Hey it ain't me!


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Uh oh, @Latestarter is starting to get a harem!


Now he really NEEDS to win that Mega Millions!


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, keeping a harem has to be pretty expensive.

I THINK @Rammy was talking about @B&B Happy goats


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Lmao.... i am sorry that i have to bow out of this harem thing, husband wouldn't  agree to it, ...hard enough i spend most of my time here with the herd......


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Yeah, keeping a harem has to be pretty expensive.
> 
> I THINK @Rammy was talking about @B&B Happy goats



Phew, I was very worried for a second that @Rammy  might kick my butt thinking that I stalk her LS.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

RollingAcres said:


> Phew, I was very worried for a second that @Rammy  might kick my butt thinking that I stalk her LS.


Ya, i was getting kinda scared myself.... ...i think we might be safe now that she thinks we have backed off.


----------



## Rammy

Hahahahahahahaahahahahaha!!!!!!


----------



## RollingAcres

B&B Happy goats said:


> i think we might be safe now that she thinks we have backed off.



Whoa, I didn't have to back off because I never stalked him.


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> Yeah, keeping a harem has to be pretty expensive.
> 
> I THINK @Rammy was talking about @B&B Happy goats


Yes, I was. Sowwy @RollingAcres! I realized I should of hit the quote button after the fact. I was teasing @B&B Happy goats !!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

RollingAcres said:


> Whoa, I didn't have to back off because I never stalked him.


 me neither


----------



## Latestarter

Gosh... <head tilted down and to the side, eyes looking skyward opposite the tilt, index finger pointing upward under chin> I'm just feeling all the  here! <blushing>


----------



## Rammy




----------



## RollingAcres




----------



## B&B Happy goats




----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Whoa, I didn't have to back off because I never stalked him.


Reads kinda like the lawyer who asks "Have you stopped beating your wife?"
You gave the right answer, can't get trapped into it as a yes/no question.

You know we all  you Joe! Any progress on the goat mansion roof?


----------



## Latestarter

As of this afternoon, the mud in the pen still isn't "solid" enough to want to work on a ladder in it. Thinking tomorrow morning after I get done with chores, I'll return the bad panel and get a replacement. More rain supposed to be moving in tomorrow evening and I'm into my last bale of hay. So at some point tomorrow, I really need to get in contact with my hay guy, hope he has some, and hope I can get it tomorrow afternoon. Rain is forecast through Saturday and I just gave a new full bale to the boys and am 1/2 way through the last one left, for the girls. I'll run out before Saturday and don't want to transport hay in the bed of the pickup in the rain.

If I can get those two things accomplished in time, I'll most likely try to get the roof finished late tomorrow afternoon. It shouldn't take all that long as I only have like 4 panels left to put up. It's going to be a little tricky however as that's the end where the shack is the highest off the ground. I hope my 8' ladder is stable enough for me to be 2nd step from the top, and leaning way out over the roof to reach the screw placements.

All the goats are now using the shelter. I snuck out there this afternoon... it's difficult to do as the chain on the metal gate makes noise, and the dogs of course alert when I go out, which alerts the goats. I managed to get into the pasture without them knowing and they were all crashed (serious siesta!) inside the shelter  I had brought them a bowl of mixed cereal treats  I dropped them in a line along the outside of the cattle panels and then called and woke them up. They came cascading out of the shelter and none took the time to go around the pen to get to the snacks outside the fence (as I'd hoped) and all just stuck their heads through the cattle panel and started scarfing it down. Much better as there's less fighting and butting and stomping 1/2 the cereal into the ground trying to "own all of it".  Everyone has their head through a slot and gets what's under their noses.


----------



## Hens and Roos

you could always get a camera or two set up .  They work awesome for kidding time as I can keep an eye on everyone especially if I'm working at a unit.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> I managed to get into the pasture without them knowing and they were all crashed (serious siesta!) inside the shelter


----------



## Baymule

I think they like their barn! Hope you beat the rain.


----------



## Latestarter

Hens and Roos said:


> you could always get a camera or two set up .  They work awesome for kidding time as I can keep an eye on everyone especially if I'm working at a unit.


 I've been considering installing some 12 volt dc lighting inside and rigging it up to a car battery. I'd also install a small solar charging panel to keep the battery charged. If I did that, I imagine I could add a camera or two to the mix and not kill the battery. Will have to wait till next year though.

Couldn't sleep this morning cause I became a mouth breather. Really wish I didn't have sinus issues. point being Bay, I haven't started animal chores yet and will after this post. Looking outside it's solid overcast and certainly looks very threatening for rain long before tonight. I can't stack wet hay inside my outbldg and risk a fire.  I'm sure the goats appreciate not having to get down and crawl under the floor  They'll like it even more I'm sure when I get the roof finished and the rest of the walls closed in.


----------



## Baymule

I haven't started animal chores either, although I did walk outside to lay eyes on Ewenique to see if she was still fat and full of lambs, she was. We've been sick, we are better, but still dragging and have little to none ambition. Blech.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Don't  beat yourselfs up...I'm  in Florida, still in pjs and don't  want to go feed....but I will as they are all at the fence line crying.....


----------



## greybeard

By the time you buy a battery, solar collector panel, controller, and light, and mount hardware, you can buy a factory built 12V solar powered light with battery all in one unit and just tap off the battery leads of it to run the camera.  I've had one on a 10' pole at the pond now for about 3 years. Got tired of bugs & cows triggering it tho, and bypassed the motion detector and wired in a manual switch.

I just looked at Lowes and Home Depot websites.  I gave over $125 for mine 3 years ago at Lowes (maybe even 4 years) and the prices have come WAY down since that time. At least reduced by 1/2.


----------



## Mini Horses

Wish I was till in my PJs, just not sick like ya'll.  

Already out of house at 6:30, DGD to school, two stores worked and back home for a looksee.  Going back for about 2 more hrs and I'm at home until Sunday.   Will be bringing some feed & hay back with me, so I won't need to make another trip.   Save gas!  

LS put the ladder inside shed and you can go between the rafters for 1/2 the sheets...then outside not so much stretching with only the last row from there.


----------



## farmerjan

All according to how much hay you get, it will not cause a fire  from getting wet from rain as opposed to being "green wet".  You will get some possible mold spots, but not the heating from the hay not being "not quite dry" like when it is first baled.  And if you do not get alot, and is not stacked on top of each other, then probably won't mold until you get it fed.  Granted it will mean an extra trip to get a few bales now and then more when you get a good dry day, but you make a few trips to town occasionally right?  The colder temps will prevent you getting alot of waste from mold etc if you only get a few now and keep them in there not touching. You are going to have to get some hay and make a trip anyway, just get enough for a week or two, then make a plan to go on a dry day and get enough to fill up the storage space.


----------



## greybeard

I hate working off a ladder. I always found it easier to just install the first sheet off the ladder, then push the sheets all up there, make sure I have all the fasteners and tools I need, climb the ladder up onto the first installed sheet and do all the rest of the work from topside.


----------



## greybeard

Hay was plentiful a couple weeks ago around here. I now hear it is getting very hard to find...especially good sq bales.


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## B&B Happy goats

Chores done here...no roo found, enjoy your day 
@Mini Horses. Not sick here, just didn't  want to outside yet....have a really wonderful  day


----------



## Rammy

Ive been at work since 6:30 am this morning. Get yer butts movin................


----------



## Hens and Roos

Latestarter said:


> I've been considering installing some 12 volt dc lighting inside and rigging it up to a car battery. I'd also install a small solar charging panel to keep the battery charged. If I did that, I imagine I could add a camera or two to the mix and not kill the battery. Will have to wait till next year though.
> 
> Couldn't sleep this morning cause I became a mouth breather. Really wish I didn't have sinus issues. point being Bay, I haven't started animal chores yet and will after this post. Looking outside it's solid overcast and certainly looks very threatening for rain long before tonight. I can't stack wet hay inside my outbldg and risk a fire.  I'm sure the goats appreciate not having to get down and crawl under the floor  They'll like it even more I'm sure when I get the roof finished and the rest of the walls closed in.



our camera's are part of the Arlo system- we charge the camera unit inside and then the unit gets put up outside where we need to have them.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have the Arlo also and since we had them in both our South Carolina home and here in Tennessee, we have both some of the older low light cameras as well as IR camera.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I hate working off a ladder. I always found it easier to just install the first sheet off the ladder, then push the sheets all up there, make sure I have all the fasteners and tools I need, climb the ladder up onto the first installed sheet and do all the rest of the work from topside.


IIRC the panels @Latestarter is putting up aren't the kind one would want to put weight on. 



Rammy said:


> Ive been at work since 6:30 am this morning. Get yer butts movin................


I've been out of bed since 6:30, get yer butts movin 
Yeah, I hurried right out for animal chores ..... about 10 AM. It was 8°, no need to hurry, the alpacas can come and go 24 hours a day and the auto door lets the chickens out of the stall coop when it gets light. They won't come out of the barn into the snow no matter what time I open the door anyway. Now SUMMER time, yeah they are at the door waiting, probably not much after their auto door opens. They still have to wait 'cause there is no way I'm going out there at 5 AM just so they can leave the barn. Yep, I'm that kind of cruel animal raiser.


----------



## Rammy

Haha. My chickens are the same way. If it snows, they stand at the door looking at it like its hot boiling water. Stupid chickens. But when I come with the feed, they are standing at the door waiting on  me like a mob. Couple of them even have jumped on the pail trying to get to it before the others. Or bite my pants, shoes, whatever. Mean cannibal chickens.


----------



## Mini Horses

Throw a handful into the coop ahead of you...then you can walk right in as they rush to the thrown stuff.


----------



## Bruce

Won't work for me, the feed room is next to the coop stall. I do sometimes bring kitchen goodies and they are all at the barn door waiting just in case. That I can throw to get them to spread out. A couple of them will try jumping up on the edge of the BOSS (AM) and scratch (PM) cans when I open them to get the girls their treats.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> IIRC the panels @Latestarter is putting up aren't the kind one would want to put weight on.


That's right. I forgot he used  plastic.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah, the panels are 26" wide, and the way the final 2 courses go, I can't access them from inside as there's no room for the ladder (~20-24" of space left) or for me (very much to large) to fit between the 2nd to last panel and wall/edge of the roof. I have to do both panels from the outside. Also, they are plastic panels and the roof is not designed to carry my weight either. It's designed to carry the weight of rain or a couple of inches of snow/hail.

I returned the damaged panel around lunch time and got a replacement. It's damp, windy, and gray outside, and truth be told, I just don't have any desire to be working up on a ladder right now. I didn't sleep well last night either, so I'm pretty tired. Because of the weather, I did the hay first as I didn't want to chance it getting wet. Hay is all done and stacked/put away. Should be good to go for another month. He's located about 35-40 miles from me so it takes a little over an hour to get there. Not a trip I want to make 2-3 times a month. So when I make the trip, I prefer to buy enough to last a while. I can generally time it to miss weather, this time just kinda caught me off guard.

I don't have a problem getting hay as the hay I buy is trucked in anyway. Talked to my hay guy while there this morning and he says he has plenty of hay waiting on delivery, his issue is finding truck(er)s to haul it in. Mostly because of the holiday season/timing. He gets the orchard/alfalfa mix from Wyoming and said he has more ordered and available, just no truck to haul it. He said his suppliers know how much he moves and he's evidently been working with them for some time so they save enough back to make sure he has a supply. He was waiting on alfalfa when I was there. Where I was paying more for the mix than the pure, now the mix I'm buying is $13/bale while the pure alfalfa is running $14.50-15/bale. He said the mix would be going up in price as well on future truck loads. I bought 12 bales... $162.

Now, it's just about time to go start doing animal chores. Lookin' like Mel's going to be enjoying inside time for the next couple of days. Goats might be staying in their pen and getting fed in their shack. Will see what the weather turns out to be.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Wow, that's  some expensive hay !  We use costal hay along with feed, BOSS and alfalfa pellets, our hay is $7.28 per bale...and i feed it year round to keep them away from parasites  as much as i can...I would really have to down size if I had to pay that....does hay get cheaper there at any point ?


----------



## Mike CHS

We made contact with a couple of farms that sell hay and alfalfa and sell it both direct from the field and out of the barn.  Alfalfa was $4.00 a bale out of the field and it's $6.00 out of the barn.


----------



## greybeard

You and the rest of the East Texas goat herders need to make a joint buy of Wy hay.

Alfalfa: Supreme large squares 200.00; 
         Good large squares 140.00-150.00; 
         Fair larges 125.00-130.00. 
Alfalfa/Grass: Premium large squares 210.00, 85.00 per bale. 
Oat hay in large squares 125.00. 
Sun-cured alfalfa pellets 15 percent protein 240.00. 

(unless noted with "per bale", all prices are FOB per ton)


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Mike CHS said:


> We made contact with a couple of farms that sell hay and alfalfa and sell it both direct from the field and out of the barn.  Alfalfa was $4.00 a bale out of the field and it's $6.00 out of the barn.


                                                         ...wonder why such a price difference  between Fl.and TN ?


----------



## greybeard

B&B Happy goats said:


> ...wonder why such a price difference  between Fl.and TN ?


Is alfalfa commonly grown in Fla? If not, it has to be trucked.
Except for extreme North Texas (panhandle) there is very little alfalfa grown here in my state.
Not much market for it here either except for horse people and some hobby farms.
I've never bought a single bale of it in 50 years.


----------



## farmerjan

One of the reasons that alot of alfalfa is grown in the west is that it is a little finicky as far as having to be made "ON TIME".  There is alot grown here in Va but it is sometimes hard to get it made right.  Most cuttings are at 28 days, g/t 2 days.  It is very deep rooted, but needs a good watering.  However, it doesn't like to get soggy feet, and getting the right weather conditions to get it made are the thing here. 
In the western states, there are many more "rainless days"  and so much stuff is irrigated.  They can control the water, and get it made when it needs to get made.  We can grow some pretty nice stuff, but the weather doesn't always co-operate and if it goes over 28-30 days, it goes to full bloom or even past and the quality (protein) is greatly affected.  Many farmers here, mostly dairy, will chop first cutting, it grows very fast and can get very stemmy very quick.  Since it is usually ready right when we are having our most unpredictable rains in may/june,  and farmers are into getting all their corn planted, chopping it for silage is the smartest way to get it harvested on time.  I also prefer 2nd or 3rd cutting as the stems are finer and the cows like it better.  It is high in protein and can cut out a fair amount of grain, as well as provide some other nutrients.  
All that said, we don't grow it because we cannot always get it made due to the weather and our other jobs.  It is more practical for us to make orchard grass right, better all around sales, and we can be a little late and not have it lose as much quality.  Since I only use it for the nurse cows, and Michael for his pregnant and lactating ewes, we only need 2-250 bales a year.  We have talked about growing a small field in the future, but it would mean more haying time....


----------



## farmerjan

By the way, oat hay is very good and the animals love it if it is made in the soft dough stage so all the good stuff is there.  We got some one year and the sheep LOVED it.  They practically licked the ground eating every single bit. It is also very nutritious if made right.


----------



## Mini Horses

I love the orchard from out west BUT...huge 100# bales in field are $4-5 there and $25-30 here by the time freight and profit are added.   Used to get some from a hay guy who got it out of Canada.  I was happy (?) to pay $17-18 a bale (110#)  because it was so good nutrition wise and they ate EVERY tiny piece!!   No waste.  He went out of business/retired.    Now -- you just search for decent stuff.

I use alfalfa pellets because of the waste with stems, as farmerjan points out.  Generally only the goats get it and easy to feed on milk stand.   In winter it's used with some BP for goats & my mini mares.  Gotta say, easier to store a bag or two than the bale.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, right now the sky is clear, but we'll have more moving in later. Didn't take anything out for dinner...  Want something, but not sure what, and don't have it here.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sounds like a trip out is in your future.....


----------



## RollingAcres

CntryBoy777 said:


> Sounds like a trip out is in your future.....


Maybe LS will take another trip out to get that PCS sub that he likes.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Want something, but not sure what, and don't have it here.



When that happens here, I generally have some ice cream!  

Then I choose the most appetizing of the unwanted choices.  I'm looking at some soup later, probably the chili I froze couple weeks ago.  The ice cream is my treat for staying home!


----------



## Latestarter

RollingAcres said:


> Maybe LS will take another trip out to get that PCS sub that he likes.


 No... no long drives without prior planning. Not really in the mood for a PCS sub right at the moment. I'd actually really enjoy a "quality" meal of Chinese food. There are several buffets here and they are "OK" but not near the quality I'm used to from back in CO. Anyway, that's what I'm thinking of doing...

Sorry MH, I don't have any ice cream here either.

So I was all thrilled when I got 4 turkeys for .68/lb back after Thanksgiving. The local discount food store has a sale this week on bone in rib eyes for $5.99/lb (@Rammy here's your low price indication on beef), and also 12-24 lb turkeys at .47/lb with min $25 purchase (limit three). Though I have the ones I already bought, I'm thinking three more would come in handy this coming summer, along with some rib eyes.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> No... no long drives without prior planning. Not really in the mood for a PCS sub right at the moment. I'd actually really enjoy a "quality" meal of Chinese food. There are several buffets here and they are "OK" but not near the quality I'm used to from back in CO. Anyway, that's what I'm thinking of doing...


If you do that you should eat there and then get it to go as well because you'll be hungry by the time you get home.


----------



## Latestarter

Before I was living the loner lifestyle and always eating out alone, when we'd go for Chinese food, I'd order enough to feed twice as many people so there'd be lots of leftovers. They were great to mix all together in a fry pan the next day and stir fry/reheat and eat. Much preferred stove top reheating to microwave. I did go to the buffet for dinner. Had 2 plates and it was enough. Not uncomfortably stuffed, but am "full".


----------



## farmerjan

When I get Chinese, I get the "family" size and a qt or 2 of egg drop soup or egg drop/wonton mix, and bring it home.  Usually on my way home from testing a farm... Then I have it for several meals.  It will keep in the fridge for several days, so that is my "chinese fix" for a month or 2.  I can eat egg drop soup most any time and especially in the winter... Plus I eat probably a double size bowl full at a time anyway.


----------



## Mike CHS

We always stop at a little Vietnamese deli when we go down to Ardmore, Alabama.  They have some of the best Pho (soup) that I have ever had and I have had some great ones.

We always bring home a quart at the minimum.


----------



## Rammy

I tried Chinese a couple times. Wasnt a big fan. Guess my international tastes are more along the Mexican, Italian taste buds.


----------



## Latestarter

I can eat egg drop but much prefer wonton soup. But there's such a thing as "good" and "poor" soup.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> The local discount food store has a sale this week on bone in rib eyes for $5.99/lb


What Grade?


----------



## greybeard

Rose chicken 



 


and Gen Tso chicken, pork or beef is about all I eat when I go to a Chinese place.


----------



## RollingAcres

Not a fan of egg drop soup. I don't normally order the wonton soup either, the wontons are mostly dough(the wrapper) and not enough meat inside. I make those at home. 

I like ordering fried rice, lo mein or Singapore Mei Fun. Not sure why it's called "Singapore" Mei Fun(mei fun means rice noodles/vermicelli) because it's not originated from Singapore. Curry powder is one of the ingredients in this dish. So if you like curry, you might like it.


----------



## Baymule

I love curry dishes, but the fenugreek in it gives me a itchy almost case of the hives.


----------



## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> I love curry dishes, but the fenugreek in it gives me a itchy almost case of the hives.


That really sucks.


----------



## Latestarter

It's just basic select grade... If you hand pick through, you can sometimes find some that lean toward choice (though still marked select). I wish I could find prime cuts at that price.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> It's just basic select grade... If you hand pick through, you can sometimes find some that lean toward choice (though still marked select). I wish I could find prime cuts at that price.


Shouldn't  of dropped in, you made me hungry again....  you guys just have to post pictures !


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> It's just basic select grade... If you hand pick through, you can sometimes find some that lean toward choice (though still marked select). I wish I could find prime cuts at that price.


Are they marked Select at the grocer or were they graded Select by USDA?
I have seen several instances of USDA choice grades being marked Select by the store meat manager in order to price them lower so they will move out of the meat case.  Both Brookshire Bros and HEB do this. It is legal to down grade a USDA cut, but you cannot 'up-grade' one. (can't sell a USDA select as a choice)
Unless you see the box the meat came in, you probably won't be able to confirm it either way.


----------



## Latestarter

Just going by the ad... It states select, so it has to be at least at that level. I'm sure the "choice" cuts (my eval) that I sometimes see "mixed in" could be exactly as you explained. I can't afford to buy/eat prime, but have bought it in the past for special occasions. Man was that some tender/tasty beef!


----------



## Bruce

I've sometimes found Porterhouses marked and stacked with T-bones. The T-bones hardly had any tenderloin.



RollingAcres said:


> I don't normally order the wonton soup either, the wontons are mostly dough(the wrapper) and not enough meat inside. I make those at home.


Dinner at RA's house!!


----------



## Latestarter

So I went to the grocery and got my 3 turkeys for .47/lb. bought 3 packages of the rib eyes (2 to a package). They were pretty much select grade. Went and preheated the grill and seasoned one up for dinner.






A bit disappointed... Wasn't even 1/2 through grilling the steak and ran out of propane. Have 2 full tanks sitting at the ready and neither one has a fully open-able valve...  I used a screwdriver to free up the tank valve by pushing on it and it moves "freely" allowing bursts of gas to escape, but when I hook it to the grill, there's barely enough gas pressure to make make enough flame for the "low" setting, even when set to high. Ended up cooking it on the stove top. It's still a rib eye, and still very tasty, but not quite the same as grilled.


----------



## frustratedearthmother




----------



## Latestarter

So the closest approach of the "Christmas comet" was supposed to be tonight. I think I may have seen it, but there was no discernible tail, and it just looks(ed) like a star to me. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/christmas-comet-46p-wirtanen_us_5c172b95e4b049efa753a332    I didn't use a telescope or binocs or anything as supposedly it's visible to the naked eye. Maybe it has to be a "young" naked eye  

Nowhere near the last "real" comet I saw back at the end of the 90s, I believe it was Hale-Bop and when viewed from out at sea and from the middle of nowhere in the desert of the SW (cross cntry trip on I-10), it had a tail that reached across the sky and was clearly visible to the naked eye and most obvious to see. I mean, there was no way you could miss it. I thought it was beautiful.


----------



## Rammy

I saw that comet, too. Once in a lifetime event. It was amazing.


----------



## Baymule

We grilled steaks yesterday on our new gas grill. They were delicious.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Baymule said:


> We grilled steaks yesterday on our new gas grill. They were delicious.


Have ya learned how to make eggs taste like steaks yet Bay?.....


----------



## greybeard

Rammy said:


> I saw that comet, too. Once in a lifetime event. It was amazing.


Most comets are, but there have been a lot of comets during most our lifetimes..people usually either don't hear about them or don't know where to look..or it's cloudy, tho several in my lifetime were visible in daylight..
I've seen Halley's Comet.
Hale Bopp
Ikeya-Seki
Hyakutake
Comet West
Seki-Lines
and some others I didn't bother to write notes about


----------



## Baymule

CntryBoy777 said:


> Have ya learned how to make eggs taste like steaks yet Bay?.....


Absolutely! It's called steak omelette!!


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> I've seen Halley's Comet.


Didn't see it in 1986. Heard about it and I remembered my mom telling us it'd be another 75 years before the next one. When the next one comes, I'd be 86.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> So I went to the grocery and got my 3 turkeys for .47/lb. bought 3 packages of the rib eyes (2 to a package). They were pretty much select grade. Went and preheated the grill and seasoned one up for dinner.
> 
> View attachment 55953
> 
> A bit disappointed... Wasn't even 1/2 through grilling the steak and ran out of propane. Have 2 full tanks sitting at the ready and neither one has a fully open-able valve...  I used a screwdriver to free up the tank valve by pushing on it and it moves "freely" allowing bursts of gas to escape, but when I hook it to the grill, there's barely enough gas pressure to make make enough flame for the "low" setting, even when set to high. Ended up cooking it on the stove top. It's still a rib eye, and still very tasty, but not quite the same as grilled.


IMHO steaks are meant to be cooked on the grill, preferably open fire, not stovetop. It just doesn't taste the same on the stovetop.
Your steak looked delicious!


----------



## Rammy

Bet it tasted delicious, too!


----------



## Mike CHS

Rammy said:


> Bet it tasted delicious, too!



It did.  That yogurt mint sauce was a first but I'll be doing that again.


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> Didn't see it in 1986. Heard about it and I remembered my mom telling us it'd be another 75 years before the next one. When the next one comes, I'd be 86.


I'd be 105. Not planning to see it.


----------



## Latestarter

Hasn't dried out enough for me to work on a ladder. More rain coming in tonight. The low is over west TX and can already see the feeder bands east of it moving north and headed east. Guess I'll get the first of it before morning. Supposed to take till Thursday to clear this one out. Glad I was able to get the roof 80% done before all this wet weather started. The goats have been using the shelter and staying under the roofed portion. I put a bag of pine chips in there to help with moisture as well. Depending on weather, they may be eating in there tomorrow.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> I'd be 105. Not planning to see it.



Now, Mr. @Bruce, everyone knows that the righteous die young so you and I will live to a really ripe old age!


----------



## Baymule

The rain came in at midnight, but it didn't last long. Maybe you will get dried out, supposed to be sunny Friday!


----------



## Latestarter

Rain hit here about 3am. I was reading and heard it start. Let the dogs in and dried them off. Elf went to his towel covered couch spot and jumped up, laid down, snuggled in and went to sleep. Mel made a dash for my bedroom and he crashed. My mud pit has been refreshed/renewed/rejuvenated. How wonderful!  Not raining since I got up and we didn't get a whole lot. There's a large blob of yellow on the radar, south of I-20 that's moving NE toward me but kinda dissipating as it's coming, so maybe it'll dematerialize before it gets to me. Still wet & gray outside but not all that cold. Says 49°f but I was OK outside with just a lined flannel shirt/jacket over a faux turtleneck. I'll be reading (dozing more like) in my recliner with the TV providing white noise.

Supposed to be clearing tomorrow and multiple days of sunshine following. Heard from my son and he and family will be coming right after Christmas for a short visit. If I can have the shelter completed by then I hope I can let the grands help paint it   I'm sure they'll enjoy that quite a bit.


----------



## greybeard

Another typical early winter system, started raining here around 10pm last night, sucking gulf moisture up thru East Texas because of the way the Texas coastal bend is shaped. Still raining here, tho not heavy. We may have gotten 1/2" since before midnight. This will, like the last 3-4, drift off to the East/NE and be the next white stuff maker for the Eastern seaboard if cold air is in place there. 
Currently rain and 51 deg:


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Heard from my son and he and family will be coming right after Christmas for a short visit. If I can have the shelter completed by then I hope I can let the grands help paint it  I'm sure they'll enjoy that quite a bit.


Good deal, your son can help put up those last few roof panels. The kids can paint whatever is already done.

It would appear you are going to share your rain with us on Friday. Not the best day, DD1, her visiting BF and DD2 were going to go skiing at the mountain where DD2 works as a lift attendant. No one wants to ski in 45°weather and RAIN.


----------



## Baymule

Grand kids love to paint. Have plenty of rollers and extensions.


----------



## greybeard

You already know to have plenty of GooP and GoJo and rags available to clean the kids up afterwards.........


----------



## Latestarter

Well, though we did get enough rain to "freshen" all the mud, today the sun is shining and there's a pretty stiff wind blowing, which should aid in drying things out quicker.

From NOAA, National Weather Service:
*Today*
Sunny, with a high near 59. Northwest wind 20 to 25 mph, with gusts as high as 35 mph.(<---sure feels accurate... it's very windy. Only 51° though right now)
*Tonight*
Clear, with a low around 35. Northwest wind 15 to 20 mph, with gusts as high as 30 mph.
*Friday*
Sunny, with a high near 57. Northwest wind 5 to 15 mph. 

I hope and expect to have the roof and walls finished before my son gets here.  We'll see. Not going to try putting up 12' long roof panels or 4x8' sheets of OSB in this wind though.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Can't say that I blame ya Joe!!.....be difficult to hold it steady and drill a screw in while also making it somewhat straight.....


----------



## Latestarter

So at feeding time this evening, the goat pen was still a little soft, but not too squishy. The wind and sun today helped a lot! Tentative plan of "back to work" tomorrow.  Wind supposed to be down to 5-10 mph, full sun, and around 57°f. Man... hard to believe Christmas is 5 days away...


----------



## Baymule

We sure had a lot of projects to get done around here. All the rain sure put the brakes on that, the occasional clear day usually was taken up with other things to be done. Then we got sick and it has hung on for weeks. Much better, but we sure don't want a relapse!


----------



## Rammy

Latestarter said:


> So at feeding time this evening, the goat pen was still a little soft, but not too squishy. The wind and sun today helped a lot! Tentative plan of "back to work" tomorrow.  Wind supposed to be down to 5-10 mph, full sun, and around 57°f. Man... hard to believe Christmas is 5 days away...


Just be careful on that ladder. Dont need to read you ended up in the hospital.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah Rammy doesn't want to drive all that way to visit you!


----------



## Latestarter

Awwww she can just send me flowers... No visit required, though if she's coming this way anyway with Ringo in the back seat for Bay, she BETTER stop at the hospital and visit me or the engagement is OFF!


----------



## goatgurl

hope the wind dies down so you can get the roof finished without hand gliding across the goat yard.  be careful out there. like you i'm so sick of slipping and sliding across the goat pen.  i'll be glad when things dry out a little.


----------



## Rammy

Latestarter said:


> Awwww she can just send me flowers... No visit required, though if she's coming this way anyway with Ringo in the back seat for Bay, she BETTER stop at the hospital and visit me or the engagement is OFF!


 

I knew you wanted me.....


----------



## Bruce

So Joe, is there something YOU want to tell us here on BYH??


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> So Joe, is there something YOU want to tell us here on BYH??


Yeah.......I think if a girl is engaged, she might want to know about it......


----------



## Latestarter

Well, figured there's a few folks here that have us all married off already, might as well throw a few sticks into the fire...


----------



## Rammy

For some reason I decided to start doing crunches tonight. Now I know why.....so I look good in my wedding dress!   Haha!


----------



## Bruce

You better start with the crunches too Joe. Want to look good in your Tux.

You know, if you too keep playing this out, I might just show up at the wedding!

OK, I've just made sure it will never happen


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> You better start with the crunches too Joe. Want to look good in your Tux.
> 
> You know, if you too keep playing this out, I might just show up at the wedding!
> 
> OK, I've just made sure it will never happen


----------



## Baymule

It_ is_ a pretty dress! Will this be a Texas or Tennessee wedding?


----------



## Bruce

You do look good in that gown Rammy!


----------



## Rammy

I dont think Joe would like being married to me. Id put him on the diet from hell. No philly cheese steaks sandwiches, fatty foods, no nothin....just healthfood and salads.
If anyone watched 2 1/2  men episode where Charlie hid from his fiance' and was pigging out on cheeseburgers and beer, that would be Joe.
Id catch him hiding in the goatshed scarfing down a philly steak, onion rings, and a big sweet tea.....


----------



## Rammy

Bruce said:


> You do look good in that gown Rammy!


Yeah, dont I?


----------



## Baymule

Rammy said:


> I dont think Joe would like being married to me. Id put him on the diet from hell. No philly cheese steaks sandwiches, fatty foods, no nothin....just healthfood and salads.
> If anyone watched 2 1/2  men episode where Charlie hid from his fiance' and was pigging out on cheeseburgers and beer, that would be Joe.
> Id catch him hiding in the goatshed scarfing down a philly steak, onion rings, and a big sweet tea.....


He might be glad to eat a meal that he didn't cook...


----------



## Rammy

Baymule said:


> It_ is_ a pretty dress! Will this be a Texas or Tennessee wedding?




That is pretty.....but I aint a dress wearin kinda girl....would be jeans, tshirt, and cowboy boots....so definitly a TX wedding.....


----------



## Baymule

Rammy said:


> That is pretty.....but I aint a dress wearin kinda girl....would be jeans, tshirt, and cowboy boots....so definitly a TX wedding.....


On horseback? Ahem.....I think we could help out on that.....


----------



## Rammy

Thats whats I was thinking.....


----------



## Baymule

We even have a horse named Joe.  He is retired now, getting old ya' know. That's his blue eye in my avatar.


----------



## Rammy

See what you started, Joe? Now we are engaged and planning our wedding.......


----------



## Baymule




----------



## Devonviolet

You guys are HILARIOUS!!!   I had better get an invite to that Texas style wedding!!!  I’m more comfortable in jeans too.  So I should fit right in.  

I’m glad to see that you are making progress on that goat shed.  I haven’t gotten any alerts, so I tried reading back, but can’t find any photos.  Could I trouble you to post one or two, so I can see your progress?

We have gotten a lot of rain lately too.  I’ve been keeping track all year, and so far, we have had 54.45” of rain this year.  I think I read that our average rainfall, for these parts, is 45”, so we have had WAY more than our share.  The wind, had been intense here, as well (gusts of 40 mph), and it’s helping to dry things out.


----------



## Mini Horses

First day of winter --  71 here and rain.  Of course we need more rain!!   Like you guys in TX, we are way over average.   I really, really want to see sunshine!!!!!     That may be a Christmas gift for everyone -- SUNSHINE and no rain!    

Dreary is depressing.


----------



## RollingAcres

Y'all are too funny with this wedding talk! 
So will @Rammy  & @Latestarter's wedding picture look like "bride and groom on white horse" (pic removed)  Or "Bride on white horse, groom standing next to horse holding a shotgun" (pic removed) Or "Bride in camo wedding dress holding a shotgun dragging groom" (pic removed)


"Edited to remove pics due to copy-right issue"


----------



## Hens and Roos

the last picture


----------



## Rammy

RollingAcres said:


> Y'all are too funny with this wedding talk!
> So will @Rammy  & @Latestarter's wedding picture look like this? View attachment 56196  Or this? View attachment 56197  Or this? View attachment 56198




The last one!



Hens and Roos said:


> the last picture



You nailed it! @Hens and Roos !


----------



## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> The last one!


I knew it!


----------



## Latestarter

Well, there will absolutely NOT be a shotgun required sans Appalachian/TN nuptials  ... Only future kids coming in my world are 4 legged. So that leaves TX as all that was offered.  And RA, If you take that last picture and have the to-be bride pulling an empty shirt/outfit... that would be it  

I'd slip right outta that shirt and be runnin the other direction! OK... so maybe not runnin'  but shuffling along fast as these old joints would allow. 

Salads? Health(y) foods?


----------



## Latestarter

Still windy as heck here this am. Only 46°f @ the moment, but the sun is shining so feels a bit warmer. Hopefully the wind will die down over the coming hours. Really want to get some goat shed work done. Starting out the morning after chores, while here with some music. Love her voice and the lyrics. The harmonies are sweet. Here are a couple of her better known tunes:


----------



## Rammy

The wedding is OFF!!


----------



## RollingAcres

I play "Bring me to life" quite often. It's on one of my Amazon Music playlists. I have a Country playlist, Classic Country, Rock, Pop/Modern, Classical, Disney Soundtracks, DS's list.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> I'd slip right outta that shirt and be runnin the other direction! OK... so maybe not runnin' but shuffling along fast as these old joints would allow.



Poor @Rammy !


----------



## Rammy

Im devastated!! and Mel was going to be a ring bearer!!


----------



## Bruce

Devonviolet said:


> Could I trouble you to post one or two, so I can see your progress?


Last one I've seen:
https://www.backyardherds.com/threa...ripes-and-grumbles.33505/page-607#post-582016



Rammy said:


> The last one!
> 
> You nailed it! @Hens and Roos !


But @Rammy, you said NO dresses!


----------



## Rammy

The basic idea of the shotgun wedding was what I liked. Definitely would dress in western wear for the ceremony. But since Joe said all Id be holding would be a shirt, I called off the wedding. Dont want to be a jilted bride. 
Its his fault hes missing out on the wedding night and that neglige I got at Victorias Secret........


----------



## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> hes missing out on the wedding night and that neglige I got at Victorias Secret


----------



## greybeard

RollingAcres said:


> So will @Rammy & @Latestarter's wedding picture look like this?


Just an FYI, and I don't really care much one way or another, but........ You should be careful about posting any image with a watermark on it..Getty, Shutterstock, Masterfile, ALAMY etc. They own the rights to said images, and the image above is intended to be 'bought' from Masterfile. I do see their side of things...it's a business and they have an investment to protect.


Masterfile and other image libraries have in the past, initiated legal proceedings in even minor cases such as this.

From wiki:


> *Copyright Trolling Accusations[edit]*
> Much like Getty Images, Masterfile has come under fire in recent years for aggressively defending copyrighted images. Unlike Getty, Masterfile has been known to litigate for thousands of dollars in damages against corporations, individuals and small businesses who knowingly or unknowingly made use of Masterfile images without having obtained a license.




I don't particularly like it, and wished it was the way it was back before Google folded to Shutterstock's demands, and you could still just (probably not legally tho) grab a screenshot of any image found on a Google search but even so, Nifty has publicly posted regarding the rights of image or other copyrighted material, and I do agree with his position. We members, posting copyrighted material might also leave the owner of this board open to litigation.

https://www.backyardherds.com/threa...le-search-it-changed-today.37441/#post-540370



Nifty said:


> Just to be clear (and to reiterate what we have in our Terms and Rules), "In general, you agree not to post any material that is illegal, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic, harassing, threatening, invasive of another person's privacy, *or a violation of copyright.*"
> 
> All images have some form of copyright, and it's up to the person posting the image to make sure they have valid rights to use the images they find online. There have been cases of copyright owners suing people that use their images without permission, so please be careful when using (copying, saving, posting, etc.) an image that isn't one you took yourself!


----------



## RollingAcres

Oh right, didn't think of that.


----------



## Devonviolet

@RollingAcres, I suspect you were not aware of the above information and you posted the photo all in fun. You did not get any financial gain, from posting it and had you been aware of the need to pay for it, you would have found a different “free” photo to get your point across. So, I’m sure you don’t have to worry about being sued. But, it’s something you might not want to do next time.


----------



## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> You did not get any financial gain, from posting it


I am quite sure she meant 'no harm' as well. 
Unfortunately, those companies don't limit their control based just on whether or not, financial gain is made. 

_
5.4. *Unauthorized Use of Images.* Unless you have received and paid for a License from Masterfile:

5.4.1. It is illegal to copy or use any portion of any Image whether (without limitation) by photographic means, scanning, digital copying, saving it to any computer, posting it to any Website, or as reference for another image.

5.6. *Copyright infringement.* Masterfile will be entitled to, and you will pay, a compensatory fee equal to the greater of U.S. $1,500 or 3 times the usual License Fee for each Unauthorized Use by you of any Image in addition to any other rights or remedies available to Masterfile under law (without you thereby acquiring any rights to the infringed Image).

5.5. *Liability for Unauthorized Use of Images.* Masterfile, its Agents (as defined in Section 11) and its contributing artists and licensors earn their living by licensing and controlling all rights to the Images. You agree that any Unauthorized Use of any Image by you is an infringement of copyright and that you will be responsible for any fees, damages and/or compensation arising from such unauthorized use.


9.12. *(All) Additional Usage Restrictions.* Without limiting Masterfile’s right to define the specific terms under which any Image may be used pursuant to a License, and unless such rights are specifically granted to you by Masterfile in a License, you may not:

9.12.1. post any Image on any electronic bulletin board, put it on-line in a downloadable or FTP format, or use it in a website at a resolution higher than 72 ppi;_

They themselves don't look for violations.they have a 3rd party hired to use software to scan the internet for their images being used intentionally or otherwise. It's this 3rd party that probably makes it's $$ on a % basis that goes after the casual users and websites that openly allow it to happen.

The 3rd party in this case is an outfit named PicRights. 
Folks can do their own research on them but they have a history of sending demand letter$. 
Some good advice, which I need to try to remember to follow myself.
https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/7423198/photo-copyright-law-lynn-morrow-interview


----------



## RollingAcres

No worries, i already did earlier.


----------



## Latestarter

OK, so it was nice this morning and warm/dry when I finished morning animal chores so I started right in on the goat mansion. When I checked the weather the other day, it was supposed to start raining again on Sunday, so I wanted to get it done. Now they say poss showers Monday night, then just cloudy till Wed night when I should expect heavy rain and T-storms. Today was beautiful... 70+°, full sun, light breezes.

I now have all the exterior walls up and the roof completed. I took some pics but in the time it took to walk back up here, the camera battery died   It's on the charger now so I'll post them later this evening. I'm tired, hungry, and a bit stiff/sore.


----------



## Bruce

Bring on the grandkids and the paint!
You deserve a nice dinner and some chair time.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Wahooooo good for you  congratulations


----------



## Latestarter

I bought a container of cookies and cream ice cream a few days ago  (shhhhhh don't tell anyone) I think some of that is in line for later tonight. And having just caught up on everything, it's now time to go do animal chores once again.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Congratulations, Mr. @Latestarter, sir!  We are all so happy for you.  And I bet the goats are happy, too!


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> I'm tired, hungry, and a bit stiff/sore.



And also relieved to be done.   GOOD job.   You deserve the cookies & ice cream treat.   ENJOY!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Good job!  I know you're glad that's over with!!


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all... been a long process. Still a few things to be done yet but the biggest thing is the goats now have a dry, wind free home. still need
1.  trim boards at corners and under eves
2.  gutter for the back to prevent drip edge wash out down below
3.  paint... it is OSB afterall and it can only take just so much direct moisture

This was taken from the back deck before going down to take the others. You can see the sun is setting and the shack is moving into shadow.





Door openings are 3' and I haven't decided to do doors or not yet. May do a 3/4 door so there'll still be airflow.




RJ photo bombed this view. He's making his "Aint I so handsome?" face




You can see from the other shots that the sun is going down. The roof selection really helps keep the interior "visible". I believe I'm going to board up the center wall with the OSB pieces propped up against the back wall. Not all the way to the ceiling, maybe 5' high. The first 2 wall frames (left side at back wall) will be closed with wire fencing, then the OSB on the final 4.








Next job is to build a milk stand.


----------



## Bruce

I had a weird thought @Latestarter. If you were to cut out the bottom plate between 2 studs on the end that is highest off the ground, you could put in a short operable door and when it comes to clean out time, you could just sweep/shovel it out the side rather than out the door and on to the steps I ASSUME you plan to put in.

And yes RJ is a handsome boy!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Dang.....the milk stand will be a piece of cake after that project ! Are you able to add end vents for extra  air flow during hot months ? And i am curious if you have chosen your paint color ?


@Bruce.  A ramp works better for goats ane people and moving stuff in and out....built ours today for feed houseand my knees are so grateful


----------



## B&B Happy goats

The reason i asked about paint color is because i have always bought expensice brand name paint, $30.00 and up per gallon....went to wal mart and found pre mixed barn red paint..under the name of color place....barn and fence, 15 yr warrenty, excellent hide, durable, ready to use...a in stock item and only $12.00 per gallon. On bare plywood i only had to roll two quick coats, e z to use and clean up !


----------



## Latestarter

For clean out, I'm not planning to put steps at the high end doorway. I'll just run the wheelbarrow up next to the door and shovel/sweep everything right out into it, then roll it off to either raised planters (not built yet), or the compost pile.

As for paint color... I hope that there's a 5 gallon exterior grade paint return with a color that's acceptable... Barring that, I'm prob gonna stick with the same beige color as the house with dark brown trim (no trim on the house). I don't want a dark color for heat and UV reasons. Dark paint just doesn't last as long in the intense summer sun.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> For clean out, I'm not planning to put steps at the high end doorway. I'll just run the wheelbarrow up next to the door and shovel/sweep everything right out into it, then roll it off to either raised planters (not built yet), or the compost pile.
> 
> As for paint color... I hope that there's a 5 gallon exterior grade paint return with a color that's acceptable... Barring that, I'm prob gonna stick with the same beige color as the house with dark brown trim (no trim on the house). I don't want a dark color for heat and UV reasons. Dark paint just doesn't last as long in the intense summer sun.


Is your sun more intense than florida sun ? We have had the red on pump house with no fade....but i do have a few trees around...it will look great whatevere you do, i just liked the $$ savings


----------



## CntryBoy777

Really nice job Joe!!....glad the weather and body cooperated with ya enough to cross the finish line....I know for a fact that ya will be very grateful the very 1st time ya are standing....dry while feeding them and the rain is pelting the roof above your head....I know I was sooo thankful each time I found myself in that position....the walls will be a welcomed windbreak for ya too....they will certainly love hanging out on the deck.....


----------



## Carla D

B&B Happy goats said:


> Is your sun more intense than florida sun ? We have had the red on pump house with no fade....but i do have a few trees around...it will look great whatevere you do, i just liked the $$ savings


Another great place to buy “barn” paint is FleetFarm or Farm and Fleet. They have 5-6 colors of cheap barn paint. $15-18 per gallon. I think a 5 gallon bucket of paint is $60 approximately.


----------



## Latestarter

I don't think I have one of those stores here near me... will have to check. I'll check with several places that do paint and try to get the best deal I can. Paint has gotten very expensive.

Rough nite last night... didn't sleep well at all. Acid reflux around 1 then really painful leg cramps around 3, and finish it up with complete sinus closure and mouth breathing around 5:30-6ish. Gonna be a football and nap in the recliner Sunday! 

Had a feeling there might be a cramp issue after being up and down a ladder all day, so when I got done working and before goat chores yesterday I got a banana and brought it down with me to eat. I had goats climbing all over me trying to get "their share". Some liked the peel, others didn't, none of them really liked the banana itself, and once they spit it into the poo/dirt, none of the others really wanted it either. Mel though had no issue with the added flavor and scarfed those chunks right up.   Eating another right now as I type before heading out to do morning chores.


----------



## Latestarter

*"Farm* & *Fleet* has 34 stores in Wisconsin, Illinois and Iowa and was founded in Janesville, Wis., by brothers W.C. Blain and N.B. ... *Fleet Farm* has 31 stores in Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota and North Dakota."  https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1&q=farm+and+fleet
Nope, a little out of my reach.


----------



## Devonviolet

Great job LS! I bet you’re glad to finally have it done.  Better yet, the goats must be lovin’ their new abode! 

I’m really liking these suggestions for where to get paint. The cement board siding, that we put on our little barn, came with beige paint on it, but I really wanted to paint it barn red, to match our chicken coop, which never got it’s white trim added.  Sometime in 2019, I would REALLY like to add that white trim, a decent door and another coat of paint on the coop.  Maybe when we do that, we can buy enough red paint to paint the barn to match.


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> I don't think I have one of those stores here near me... will have to check. I'll check with several places that do paint and try to get the best deal I can. Paint has gotten very expensive.


We had Fleet Farm when we lived in MN.  Down here, I think Atwoods or Fix ‘N Feed might be a comprable alternative.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Devonviolet said:


> We had Fleet Farm when we lived in MN.  Down here, I think Atwoods or Fix ‘N Feed might be a comprable alternative.


I bought 4 gallons of the red paint at wal mart....am shocked that i got chicken house , and the 12x21 goat house painted with less than two gallons. ....at $12.00 per gallon  pre mixed.. @ Devonviolet


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Hope you feel better today latestarter, my husband has leg cramps we get leg cramp pills at wally world that work really well...at least when he takes them i don't t get kicked all over the place


----------



## Bruce

Sorry you had such a bad night Joe.



Latestarter said:


> For clean out, I'm not planning to put steps at the high end doorway. I'll just run the wheelbarrow up next to the door and shovel/sweep everything right out into it, then roll it off to either raised planters (not built yet), or the compost pile.


Do you expect them to use that opening for ingress/egress? How high up off the ground is it? I'm thinking about older goats jumping down and maybe damaging themselves. Also maybe not able to get up and in well. I'm guessing with your joint issues, you will use only the low end doorway.



B&B Happy goats said:


> I bought 4 gallons of the red paint at wal mart....am shocked that i got chicken house , and the 12x21 goat house painted with less than two gallons. ....at $12.00 per gallon  pre mixed.. @ Devonviolet


The question isn't always about how cheap a gallon is but also how long it lasts. If you have to repaint every other year as opposed to every 6 years it may not be a bargain, especially if painting is a time consuming event.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Sorry you had such a bad night Joe.
> 
> 
> Do you expect them to use that opening for ingress/egress? How high up off the ground is it? I'm thinking about older goats jumping down and maybe damaging themselves. Also maybe not able to get up and in well. I'm guessing with your joint issues, you will use only the low end doorway.
> 
> 
> The question isn't always about how cheap a gallon is but also how long it lasts. If you have to repaint every other year as opposed to every 6 years it may not be a bargain, especially if painting is a time consuming event.


No kidding dear Bruce....thats why i cover it with water based polyurethane,  lol...already had that on hand  @Bruce


----------



## Mini Horses

WM probably has the same paint in white.     I get mine at Lowe's, white & barn red.   It lasts quite well.   4 years out and good coverage, color, etc.    Believe I pd in the 15 per gal range.  Paint hAs really gotten expensive!!    I need to do the trim out on a coop -- hey, only 3 yrs, no rush     The building is still firm and doing well even without the decoration.    Somehow there was always "something else" that had to be done using the time & $$ for that.   Goat fence?       Probably the material is in my salvage stack, if I look.


----------



## Latestarter

B&B Happy goats said:


> thats why i cover it with water based polyurethane, lol...


 HUH? Have never heard of this... What does the urethane do? Water based urethane over water based paint (latex) seems to me would be the same as doing a 2nd coat of paint...


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> HUH? Have never heard of this... What does the urethane do? Water based urethane over water based paint (latex) seems to me would be the same as doing a 2nd coat of paint...


Gives it super  water and fade protection.... they are two diffrent animals....always put the finished protection coat over hand painted furniture, ....and have even used marine grade urithane.....and any wood that is going near the ground i use clear flex seal before it gets painted...no fade or wood rot at our place, here or any home i have remodeled. ...


----------



## Bruce

You can put water base over oil but generally speaking not the other way around. 

Marine grade urethane is pretty sturdy stuff, not cheap though.


----------



## Latestarter

I was just curious as the latex paint is adhered to the wood surface, so painting urethane over that, it has nothing to adhere to except the paint itself... So if the paint isn't good quality to start, I didn't see what difference the urethane would make. I didn't think that would really "add" anything to the overall. I thought it would be the same as a 2nd coat of paint...  Urethane over stain is a bit different situation... I'll take/accept B&B's explanation since she's evidently done this before and it's proven beneficial to/for her application(s). 

So I spent the large part of the day napping in my recliner with football games or NFL channel on for "white noise". Hauled myself upright later in the afternoon and brought the goats down a cereal snack. They've taken to all going in the shelter in the afternoon around 2ish to nap. So if I go down silently and be careful not to rattle the chain against the metal gate, I can sneak into the pasture and get around the pen fence before they all run out into the pasture with me. This way I can lay out a line of cereal along the fence and they all stick their heads through to eat, thus not trampling the cereal or fighting trying to control/own/eat it all (Bang!).

With the real wet weather we've been having and my aches and pains, the goats hooves have really gotten pretty bad. So tonight I went down a little early for evening chores with 2 pockets full of animal crackers/cookies and my hoof shears. I actually have a couple of goats that don't like the cookies   but the rest of them act like they're a drug, and are addicted to them. Luckily the 2 goats that aren't fond of them came right up to see what I had so I was able to get them trimmed up first thing. Then the rest I was able to do were pretty simple. The yearlings, for all but one, was their first time. So, when I caught them and they realized they were caught, they fought like hell trying to get away. Once I got them clipped to the fence and fed them a couple of cookies, they settled down and the actual trimming went well with no real fighting. After finishing and releasing them, with a couple more cookies, you'd never know I had tortured them at all... They came right back up to me for more cookies. I did accidentally clip into the quick on a couple of hooves. They bled a bit, but I'm sure they'll heal up just fine. I'm going to need to check up on them every 2 weeks or so to try and get their hooves back the way they should be. Now that they have a way to get out of prolonged exposure to wet, things should improve.

By the time I'd finished the first 8 girls (4 adults, 4 yearlings), it was getting dusk, and not really clear enough for me to do the last 2 girls. I mean I probably could have fought through it, but there's always tomorrow & PB&J is about the most skittish goat I have. When I catch her by the collar, she freaks and starts screaming her lungs out which affects the other goats and the dogs. So Dot and her grand-doe, PB&J, will get done tomorrow, before the potential rain showers arrive tomorrow night. I still have to do the boys as well, but their pen was a solid cover of poo mud several inches thick until recently when it has mostly dried out. It's still not solid, but enough that I hope to get their hooves done tomorrow as well. RJ is another 250-300 pound challenge until he's clipped to the fence. Should prove an interesting adventure for sure. He's really quite laid back once I start on his hooves though, so hoping for the same response as previous. He's another real sucker for food too. If I stand at the fence with food, he'll climb the fence and put his head over top to get at it. As long as he's eating, I can clean his ears, touch his face/head/etc and he doesn't even flinch. Without food, you'd think I was a sparring partner for him.

So there ya have it... My Christmas eve plans!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Hope you are feeling better or at least rested....on the paint, when you use laytex paint...especially  on raw wood, you are basicly laying a thinn layer of liquid laytex (if rolling...brush gives thicker coverage) then when we use plywood or another type of wood that is exposed to extreme elements , by adding the poly on top...you are kinda laying a layer of "water barrier" on top....you can paint laytex over oil but can't  paint oil over laytex, ....after a three year stint with a retail store and studio where we did furniture...you have to learn paint quickly...three years ,tweleve employee's. ...not for me, moved on and took my tools, $$$ and closed both locations.... amen


----------



## Mini Horses

My older buck is a pussycat to catch & ties well until you move around him....then he wants to move WITH you. After collar lead has his head tied to fence,  I use a long lead line clipped to the fence, put him against the fence, then pull it under his belly & tie to fence over his back.   So he has a band around his back half to keep him from moving around.  Not tight & he doesn't fight, just stands where he should.   Do one side, turn him around to rehook and do other side.     He'll stand and eat hay while I trim his hooves this way.   At least the wet ground has softened the hooves a little.   This buck has iron hooves, I swear.   I should probably be inspired to do my guys tomorrow.  We'll see.

Darned bucks, they still smell and it isn't really pleasant!!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> HUH? Have never heard of this... What does the urethane do?


It's a sealer and that's generally what it is called and where you will find it. With the rest of the sealers. My house's pine ceiling as well as the rest of the natural wood in my house was sprayed with it as is the exterior of my shop. You will often see it used on colored concrete floors as a topcoat and sealer.


----------



## Latestarter

I know what urethane is and what it's typically used for. I was asking what it does in the specific application B&B was describing; urethane over painted surfaces.

I know it seals porous materials such as wood, concrete etc. against water/moisture intrusion. I just didn't understand using it over the top of paint (latex) which is also used on wood and concrete and covers/soaks into the pores, effectively blocking/sealing them. So using the urethane over the paint, there's nothing for it to absorb into as the pores are already sealed by the paint. I know it's commonly used over stains (wood, concrete coloring, etc) but stain is different than paint and doesn't block pores but is absorbed into the wood or coats hard surface particulates like concrete (staining them) leaving the pores open. So when paint ages, it releases from the pores and you can "peel" it off, it's not absorbed. Stain and urethane will "wear off" but you can't peel it off like a paint coating.

Anyway, all that aside, woke up to a beautiful morning with the sun shining bright drying off the hard frost. No wind and not a cloud in the sky! Hey! Seems like the days are getting longer too!  Was mid 30s last night and is 43° right now but it feels warmer outside in the sun than it feels inside with the heat set to 66°. Might have to switch over into shorts, grab a book and go sit in the sun with the goats and read


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> paint (latex) which is also used on wood and concrete and covers/soaks into the pores, effectively blocking/sealing them.


That is actually the problem I have with latex, especially exterior. It DOESN'T soak into the wood and seal the pores, it covers the surface with a rubber coating. Any small nick and water can get in underneath and soak into the wood which will rot under the rubber because it can't escape and no air will get in to dry it out. Then the latex peels off in sheets. I wouldn't put latex over any exterior wood that wasn't first sealed with an oil primer.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Might have to switch over into shorts, grab a book and go sit in the sun with the goats and read



"Twas the night before Christmas...…."      Take them some cookies, too.  

Lucky goats!    Mine got a treat of a few loaves of bread (which they LOVE!)  but, no story telling.    They did mention there was no raisin bread in there, which they like a LOT.  Maybe tomorrow.


----------



## Latestarter

Took a couple of pockets full of cookies down along with banana peel and orange peels. Tried to lure PB&J close enough to grab her collar but when I reached for it she let out a yell and bolted. Did get Dot's hooves done but gonna have to figure a different way to grab that little scaredygoat...


----------



## Latestarter

Merry Christmas everyone. Hope y'all have a wonderful holiday period that continues through the coming year.


----------



## Mini Horses

Same back at you!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I know what urethane is and what it's typically used for. I was asking what it does in the specific application B&B was describing; urethane over painted surfaces


The primary downside of latex used on exterior panels or wood is oxidation. For the paint to oxidize it naturally has to have access to oxygen......air. 
Urethane seals it from the air.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter, sir!

Sorry to just now post this, but congratulations on getting the goat shack finished!  Now that there is plenty of room, do you plan on getting some more goats, or perhaps breed the ones you have?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Baymule

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Latestarter, sir!
> 
> Sorry to just now post this, but congratulations on getting the goat shack finished!  Now that there is plenty of room, do you plan on getting some more goats, or perhaps breed the ones you have?
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


He already has more on the way.....courtesy of his buck. STA you are slipping, I thought you a better stalker than this.


----------



## Latestarter

Some of my girls are already starting to widen out and look pregnant. The first ones won't be due till March and they should continue through into April. I expect my herd numbers should just about double.


----------



## Rammy

What are you going to do with all those goats?


----------



## farmerjan

Eat them or sell them so they can help pay for the feed bill......


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Hey latrstarter, do you or do you know any members to process and eat their goats ? Am looking to see if anyone changes feed before  d day and how they process it, and prepare it...am considering to keep some wethers  for this purpose.we have ND but we also dont needs a ton of meat at a time either, and concidering i will be the one doing it, will most likly do it when they hit 80 percent of full growth....appreciate any inf you are able to share.


----------



## Bruce

Rammy said:


> What are you going to do with all those goats?


Save them for you to take care of when you move down there 



Baymule said:


> He already has more on the way.....courtesy of his buck. STA you are slipping, I thought you a better stalker than this.


He's stalking so many people he can't keep them straight!


----------



## Latestarter

I haven't processed any of my goats yet. I have 2 yearling wethers that are ~ 75-80% full grown (9 mos old). If they don't sell this coming spring, they'll be freezer bound. I'm sure I'll have some new buckling kids to replace them. Considering processing RJ (my papered buck) and replacing him with a high quality Kiko buck to produce 1/2 breeds. Dairy goats just don't have a lot of meat of them... They put everything into producing kids, then milk. I'm thinking I'll have a better market with crosses that have dairy capability but also enough meat to be worth processing. My does are all very "dairy" meaning skin and bones. Not a lot of meat there for the taking.

I did have some goat meat rib chops from the wethers that @Devonviolet had processed. There wasn't a lot of meat (nigies), and it was kind of tough because of it. But it tasted fine. Much like venison.

I went and got my truck "safety inspected" today ($7.00) so I could pay my registration tax (~$55.00) and get my sticker for the coming year. Since the inspection place also does routine maintenance I had them do an oil change as well. It's been "due" for a couple thousand miles. 

I've had a check engine light for a while and I know it's the O2 sensor or something to do with it. Don't want to spend the money to mess with it at the moment so I asked the inspection place was that going to effect the inspection. Happily, no... the inspection is purely a safety inspection. I thought last year there was a vote to eliminate the testing... It's really a joke 

While at the county clerks office I also paid 1 of my 2 part property tax bills. ~$775 to the city side which is due by the end of December or it starts going up in price. The 2nd part is ~$1,000 and is due by the end of January, payable to the county appraisal district, so I'll pay that next month.

Last month it was the home owner's insurance at 2 grand. Next month it will be vehicle insurance...  I'm bleeding out here financially...  Pilgrim's pride chicken processing down the road a spell is hiring and advertising starting pay @ $11.83/hour. They have a few other jobs that I'd probably be OK a (Quality and fork lift drivers - did both at previous job) paying a bit more. Might be headed back into the working world next year at least until my social security kicks in next fall/winter. So NOT thrilled with the prospect   But I kinda like to eat   Guess it will also keep me off the streets and out of trouble...


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Pilgrim's pride chicken processing down the road a spell is hiring and advertising starting pay @ $11.83/hour. They have a few other jobs that I'd probably be OK a (Quality and fork lift drivers - did both at previous job) paying a bit more. Might be headed back into the working world next year


Now, you too, can be part of "Industrial/Corporate Farming"....


----------



## Latestarter

yup... sad to say.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Thank you for the infomation. I hope you don't  have to get a job at the chicken factory, but if you do....sure hope it's  in the office...working with the chickens could really be a turn off


----------



## Rammy

Now see, LS, if'n you married me, me being a workin girl, you could stay home and be a house husband. You could clean, cook, take care if the animals while Im slaving away at work. Then when I get home have dinner waiting for me. See what your missing?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

@Rammy ... now Rammy, you have been holding out since  1996 you said....are you sure you want a house  husband to support ? I mean, that's  alot of work to ask him to do....all the house chores, laundry, cooking cleaning,  yard chores building thing, animals to care for ?  You would have to sell your place and probably pay for the BYH wedding and party  if your moving to TEXAS


----------



## Baymule

Look on the bright side. If you re-enter the working world, you would be getting lots of exercise and probably lose weight, feel better because you wouldn't be dragging those extra pounds around. You would trim up and look better. Your financial woes would disappear, you'd have plenty of money and you could pay for the wedding!


----------



## Mini Horses

B&B Happy goats said:


> I mean, that's alot of work to ask him to do....all the house chores, laundry, cooking cleaning, yard chores building thing, animals to care for ?



  I do this every day -- and work!    No DH worries, no arguments,  no asking why it didn't get done, no complaints about dinner, no extra laundry.   I do miss (sometimes!) having a person to talk with and  share experiences -- that's what BYH is for!!! 



farmerjan said:


> Eat them or sell them so they can help pay for the feed bill



Yes.   But I like to soften it     Harvest--process or sell.....

Agree with LS about quantity of meat on a dairy breed.   They are never heavyweights.    I have used Boer on dairy with good results as the dairy provides a lot of milk & a good buck will give better carcass  size/ratio.    The meat is good in a slow cooker recipe, from my dairy harvest.  I do plan to buy a couple Boer or BoerX does just for meat production...with a Boer buck.   ANY meat animal has to be chosen with only anatomy, not breed solely.   If the size & production is not there you just have a "name".    Did this years back.  Pay for a good animal and you will not be sorry.

Same with dairy, really.   Buy what produces!


----------



## farmerjan

@Mini Horses  You are so much more diplomatic than I am.  Probably my biggest downfall.

But in the rest I totally agree with.  I also don't have any other hassles by being by myself.  Yes, there are times that I get wishing for someone to go out to eat with or even to occasionally just get together with to do something different..... like go on a one day trip on a steam train here....  but not enough to have a "house husband".  Paying a house cleaner one a week or every 2 weeks would definitely be a better alternative.  And it would be nice to come home to a cooked meal on occasion.... but since I am slowing down at work due to the dairy industry, and not wanting to amp up any other working situation with my ankle and knee, I can manage to get along just fine as is.  I do miss the walking the pastures, and the subsequent exercise that I am not getting,  but that will hopefully improve once I decide exactly what I am going to do with the joints.


----------



## Rammy

B&B Happy goats said:


> @Rammy ... now Rammy, you have been holding out since  1996 you said....are you sure you want a house  husband to support ? I mean, that's  alot of work to ask him to do....all the house chores, laundry, cooking cleaning,  yard chores building thing, animals to care for ?  You would have to sell your place and probably pay for the BYH wedding and party  if your moving to TEXAS




Thats true. Didnt think of that.


----------



## Rammy

Mini Horses said:


> I do this every day -- and work!    No DH worries, no arguments,  no asking why it didn't get done, no complaints about dinner, no extra laundry.   I do miss (sometimes!) having a person to talk with and  share experiences -- that's what BYH is for!!!




Same here. Sorry, LS, guess the wedding is back off.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Rammy said:


> Same here. Sorry, LS, guess the wedding is back off.


SMART MOVE FOR BOTH OF YOU !!!!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Mini Horses said:


> I do this every day -- and work!    No DH worries, no arguments,  no asking why it didn't get done, no complaints about dinner, no extra laundry.   I do miss (sometimes!) having a person to talk with and  share experiences -- that's what BYH is for!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Yes.   But I like to soften it     Harvest--process or sell.....
> 
> Agree with LS about quantity of meat on a dairy breed.   They are never heavyweights.    I have used Boer on dairy with good results as the dairy provides a lot of milk & a good buck will give better carcass  size/ratio.    The meat is good in a slow cooker recipe, from my dairy harvest.  I do plan to buy a couple Boer or BoerX does just for meat production...with a Boer buck.   ANY meat animal has to be chosen with only anatomy, not breed solely.   If the size & production is not there you just have a "name".    Did this years back.  Pay for a good animal and you will not be sorry.
> 
> Same with dairy, really.   Buy what produces!



Wasn't  planning on raising to eat them, just wondering if i had wethers  i didn't  sell for some reason...now that i know there isn't  much meat on them...that is perfect, we don't  need much meat from them and i can eat what i can get  win win all the way around!


----------



## Bruce

Rammy can move to TX and be a boarder at @Latestarter's place. Plenty of space for her animals and Joe won't have to go back to work. And they don't have to get married. Bummer for those of us who are ready to attend the wedding but we will make the sacrifice.

BTW, I think you best stick with the QC or forklift jobs. I don't think your hands would deal well with parting out chickens day in and day out. Of course those jobs won't give you the "lots of moving around" weight loss perk that @Baymule mentioned.


----------



## Latestarter

So tomorrow I get to meet @ragdollcatlady and her beau; Alaska. Gonna be about a 4.5 hour drive down to Austin for a meet/greet/eat at Black's BBQ. The plan is to meet up around 12-12:30. Looking forward to it! I guess the weather is not going to be all that great tomorrow, so I'm planning to leave a little extra time, both directions. Still no decision as to what to do for dinner tonight here with son and his family. Thursday evening we did prime rib roast. Last night was chili dogs. Maybe I'll take a run to chicken express and pick up a bucket of fried chicken for dinner...


----------



## Bruce

You lucky Dawg you!

You going to drag son and family down to meet our fair @ragdollcatlady and Alaska?


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> You lucky Dawg you!
> 
> You going to drag son and family down to meet our fair @ragdollcatlady and Alaska?


The downside to that tho, is that it's taking place in Austin.


----------



## Bruce

In this case it is about the people, not the place. I'm sure @Latestarter would be more than happy to host them at his place.


----------



## greybeard

I'm sure he would. 
I try to stay as far away from the craziness that is Austin as I can.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

greybeard said:


> I'm sure he would.
> I try to stay as far away from the craziness that is Austin as I can.





Bruce said:


> In this case it is about the people, not the place


If you haven't driven in Austin you might not appreciate Greybeard's aversion.... I definitely "get" it!   I'm fairly familiar with the Austin area having a daughter that has lived all around Austin.  About 6 months ago I was going for a visit and because of some road construction I missed my exit.  I am not exaggerating a bit when I say it took me 2 hours to get out of the mess that I got into.  TWO HOURS to get through a construction zone (about 2 miles) and get out of the craziness!  Austin the town has some highlights - Austin traffic system is a definite low point of any road trip...

Worst part - that's not an unusual story.  Ask anyone who drives Austin with any frequency...


----------



## Bruce

Can it be any worse than L.A. or Boston? I've never driven in any big city that I thought was other than full of nut cases needing to get somewhere faster than everyone around them.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

It's definitely worse than Houston - and Houston is a big a$$ city, lol.  I've driven L.A. too and I'd still give Austin the "thumbs-down" worst traffic city I've EVER, and I really do mean EVER driven in...


----------



## greybeard

I've been in Houston, Dallas, New Orleans, Chicago, Los Angeles, San Diego, Memphis, and San Antone......Even without the ever present construction..Austin is worse, partially because it's on uneven elevation and roads and highways that make twists and turns that follow the Colorado River and the lake.or just end abruptly.
People there drive like nuts too, partially I suspect, because so many of them are immigrants from all over the US. Evidently, turn signals aren't used in Mexico,  Calif and Chicago. It is the self acclaimed haven and sanctuary of anything and anyone "weird".

Houston and Dallas have a love/hate relationship but we claim each other proudly. NO city in Texas claims Austin and I've been over most of the state breath and width.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

DH was born in Austin and still loves the city - partly because of it's weirdness.  However, even he describes Austin as a California city that moved east, lol.


----------



## Anthony Sr.

Latestarter said:


> Not a happy start to my new year. Saturday started coming down with flu. Honest to goodness flu, which I haven't dealt with in many decades. Spent the last 24-36 hours in bed. Thought about heading over to the VA ER, but didn't feel up to the drive and there's not much they can do for the flu once you've got it anyway. It has been accompanied by a bladder or UT infection. Life is fun. The kids left early, this morning, as there was no sense in them staying and maybe getting what I have. Was a good visit, but short.
> 
> So wishing everyone a very Happy new year, good health, prosperity, and happiness.


Just said a Prayer for ya


Latestarter said:


> Not a happy start to my new year. Saturday started coming down with flu. Honest to goodness flu, which I haven't dealt with in many decades. Spent the last 24-36 hours in bed. Thought about heading over to the VA ER, but didn't feel up to the drive and there's not much they can do for the flu once you've got it anyway. It has been accompanied by a bladder or UT infection. Life is fun. The kids left early, this morning, as there was no sense in them staying and maybe getting what I have. Was a good visit, but short.
> 
> So wishing everyone a very Happy new year, good health, prosperity, and happiness.



Just said a Prayer for ya, and I'm sure ya start feeling better soon. Have a Great New Year, Don't let things get ya down...


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> While at the county clerks office I also paid 1 of my 2 part property tax bills. ~$775 to the city side which is due by the end of December or it starts going up in price. The 2nd part is ~$1,000 and is due by the end of January, payable to the county appraisal district, so I'll pay that next month.


That, is steep. More than I pay here. ($1466.55 total this time, due by Jan 31)
(of course, your's isn't in a flood zone)


----------



## Bruce

Anthony Sr. said:


> Just said a Prayer for ya, and I'm sure ya start feeling better soon. Have a Great New Year, Don't let things get ya down...


You have a lot of catching up to do, the post you referenced will be a year old on Tuesday. Sure hope @Latestarter's 2019 starts out WAY better!


----------



## Latestarter

Indeed Bruce, so do I! Thanks for the sentiment none the less @Anthony Sr. much appreciated, and though I'm not big into prayer, I'll never turn down those offered on my behalf!   No, my son and family are staying here. Supposed to be rainy all day tomorrow (60% chance day/100% chance night) so they'll relax and take the kids to an afternoon matinee of the new Mary Poppins. We did do the chicken express tonight. I like their fried chicken pretty much as it's always hot and moist, never dried out or a slimy greasy mess like the local KFC.


----------



## greybeard

I've bought a lot of that Chicken Express at the Paris Tx store out on the East side of the loop. It's not as good as Popeyes but is better than KFC but KFC has gone downhill in the last 5-6 years. 
Got a place called Hartz Chicken here...buy by the piece, by the meal, bucket or all-you-can-eat buffet and the buffet is really good........and cheap enough too. 

(never buy chicken tacos at a fried chicken place. it's almost always last night's leftover chicken)


----------



## Baymule

Have a safe trip and have fun!


----------



## Mike CHS

Oddly enough the best fried chicken we have found here is the Kroger.  We had a Popeye's but they went out of business due some extensive road construction that kept customers captive in their parking lot trying to get out.


----------



## Rammy

Chicken hell.....help! We cant get out of Popeyes!


----------



## Latestarter

The last time I did KFC, I ordered a bucket to feed a family group. There was an inch of oil in the bottom of the bucket when we pulled all the slimy chicken out to try and make it edible. Complete Fail... Ended up just trashing the whole bucket of slop. Wouldn't even feed it to my dogs. There's another chicken place I've seen around here called Golden Bird or something similar. I haven't tried it but reportedly it's good. I like Popeye's and order the spicy chicken when I go there. Chicken Express is when I want just regular old "southern style" fried chicken. Just reheated in a toaster oven the last 2 pieces; thighs, and finished them. Not bad at all considering they are reheated. There's a chicken chain I used to really enjoy called "Bojangles", but there isn't one anywhere near here. As I recall, when I was located where both them and Popeye's were available, I preferred Bojangles.  




OK, all that being said, the drive down to Austin and back was no big deal. Found Blacks BBQ with no problems and met @ragdollcatlady and her Beau Alaska. Great people! Really enjoyed chatting with them and enjoyed the lunch. I'm sorry we couldn't stay longer and visit further but I had to get back home to do animals chores in the rain.


----------



## Baymule

What a handsome couple! Hey Joe! Like the beard! I have never seen my husband's face. One time he got a little trim happy and I got a peek at his face. I told him flat out "I don't like your face, grow it back out!"


----------



## Latestarter

I have "no upper lip"... when I completely shave I always look like I'm angry... even when I'm not. So I rarely take off the stach. The goatee is a winter thing and usually comes off when it starts warming up in spring as it gets rather itchy.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> I have never seen my husband's face. One time he got a little trim happy and I got a peek at his face. I told him flat out "I don't like your face, grow it back out!"


Same here!  One time he shaved it really close and I was just like you …. grow it back!   Thankfully he can grow a beard in about 45 minutes, lol!!


----------



## Mike CHS

No upper lip or whatever other failings it's a great picture of some great people.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> There's a chicken chain I used to really enjoy called "Bojangles", but there isn't one anywhere near here. As I recall, when I was located where both them and Popeye's were available, I preferred Bojangles.


They are only in certain southern states and up the east coast. Saw on the news the other day, some NYC investment management firm was buying the company. Around 600 franchises according to the article.


----------



## Mini Horses

We have a Bojangles near (not on the map above) at a Luvs Truck Stop.   With all the fried chicken descriptions, I may have to go there.    Haven't had any in months.  Used to stop at the chain going thru areas of NC years ago, they had great biscuits!  I sometimes get some fried chicken tenders at a local Hardees that has some good one, and biscuits.   Just tears me up to pay $6 for what ends up being 5 tiny pieces!!    I'm cheap.


----------



## RollingAcres

Great pics @Latestarter !
All that talk about fried chicken made me hungry for some. We don't get or make fried chicken often. Usually it's KFC once in a while, the only one around here. There' s a Popeye's here but it's in a not so good neighborhood so I've never been. Used to frequent Popeye's when I was in Baton Rouge. There's no Bojangles here.


----------



## Rammy

We have all three places here. KFC and Zaxbys are in Springfeild, and a Bojangles is in White House. I dont know if there is a Popeyes near by. There used to be in town but its the Zaxbys now.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I like Bojangles....especially their country ham biscuit.... as far as bought fried chicken I prefer Church's over any that I have tried....tho, they aren't located in alot of places.....


----------



## Bruce

Thanks for the trip report @Latestarter!  Was Mr. Alaska melting? Pretty darn warm down there in TX compared to his home.


----------



## Latestarter

He seems a very adaptable sort. You can see in the pic, low quality though they are, that he seemed quite comfy. It wasn't all that "warm" as it was cloudy and damp. I think maybe right around 50° or so.

We have Church's fried chicken here as well. I don't care for them. I ordered a breast and got this shriveled up 1/2 piece that they call a "breast"... It's 1/2 a breast and should be labeled so. I didn't find it all that tasty either and it was dried out. Just my experience.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> We have Church's fried chicken here as well. I don't care for them. I ordered a breast and got this shriveled up 1/2 piece that they call a "breast"... It's 1/2 a breast and should be labeled so. I didn't find it all that tasty either and it was dried out. Just my experience.



Sounds exactly like the Church's Chicken here in Cleveland Tx.  Church's used to be a great franchise, but somewhere, they lost their way.


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## Latestarter

Welcome to 2019 and a great start we're off to here... Last night, around 11pm, my son and his wife ask me "Hey wasn't Mel in the pasture?" I respond yes. They then inform me that he's standing at the back door looking in at us with longing eyes.  How the heck did THAT happen? So son and I go out and walk the accessible fence line and find no gaps/breaks/bends/dig-outs/etc to indicate where he got through. The only thing left I can surmise is that he jumped the fence.  Now I know/assumed he was capable of this, but it's the first time he's done so. Now I have to hope he doesn't decide to jump the fence headed outside the pasture into the open area rather than into the back yard.   I'm guessing it was all the gun shots and fireworks last night. I'm hoping that's what caused it and that he'll be content to stay in the pasture in the future.

It's already clouding up and we're supposed to have another 2-2.5 days of heavy rain starting later tonight. The buck pen needed a bale replacement so I had to walk in there carrying a 60+lb bale to lift up and into the feeder in 6" deep poo mud.  The grands were out there with me keeping all the others goats away from the gate to the buck pen, myself, and the bale in the wheelbarrow. That was an hour+ ago. So a short bit ago I look out back and there's RJ flirting with Champ...  How the hell did HE get out? So I put on my loafers and head out to catch him and put him back. Luckily I was able to get a couple fingers under his collar before he was able to pull away and I walked/coaxed him back over and into the buck pen. Somehow the bottom carabiner got opened/unlatched and he pushed through the gate.  He climbs that gate frequently so he might have stepped on the carabiner and by a stroke of luck, unlatched it... or, I may have inadvertently forgotten to close the bottom one while keeping track of grand kids, Mel and other goats earlier while doing the hay refill. 

So now I'm going to have a couple of things to worry about over the coming days until I hopefully figure out what/how it happened, and HOPE that it doesn't happen again. Or I'm going to be stringing hot wire while wading through a bog.   If it's not one thing, it's another.


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## Mike CHS

Does Mel wander when he gets out or has he not had a chance?


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> He climbs that gate frequently so he might have stepped on the carabiner and by a stroke of luck, unlatched it... or, I may have inadvertently forgotten to close the bottom one while keeping track of grand kids, Mel and other goats earlier while doing the hay refill.


I am betting on the former, you have a mind like a steel trap and we all know goats can do amazing things, on purpose or not.



Latestarter said:


> The only thing left I can surmise is that he jumped the fence.


FREEDOM!!!!
My guess is fear from the fireworks, he came to find you. Won't be looking to wander any farther afield than into the house.


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## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> The only thing left I can surmise is that he jumped the fence.  Now I know/assumed he was capable of this, but it's the first time he's done so. Now I have to hope he doesn't decide to jump the fence headed outside the pasture into the open area rather than into the back yard.  I'm guessing it was all the gun shots and fireworks last night. I'm hoping that's what caused it and that he'll be content to stay in the pasture in the future.


I wouldn’t hold my breath, LS.   Based on @Baymule’s experience with Trip, once he figured out how to get over the fence, there was no stopping him.    Our two haven’t figured out that they can jump the fence, and based on their size and power, I KNOW they could clear our four foot fencing if they really wanted to.  So, HUSH .. .. . No one tell them, PLEASE!!!!!   As long as the coyotes stay in the woods, at night, and continue to stay about 200 feet out in the hay field, when they cross from their woods to the pasture across the road, we will be fine.  If the coyotes ever come closer, I suspect Violet would go over the fence, to convince them, that they got WAY too close!    It won’t be pretty.  



Latestarter said:


> It's already clouding up and we're supposed to have another 2-2.5 days of heavy rain starting later tonight.


PLEASE don’t tell me that!!! It’s been cloudy here all day. I have had my fill of rain and mud!  We had a total of 58.65” of rain in 2018.  I would just love a year of “average” rainfall, without a period of drought in the middle.  

Happy New Year! 
Here’s hoping that we all have a better 2019 than we had last year!!!


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## Latestarter

Mike CHS said:


> Does Mel wander when he gets out or has he not had a chance?


 He has "escaped" through gates before when folks other than I have not been paying proper attention entering or leaving the places he was located. When we first got here I kept his harness on him and clicked him to a 16' lead and walked him around the field borders so he'd know where I basically wanted him to consider his boundaries. I would then walk him around them off lead, but he wouldn't stop at the back field when I wanted to stop there and would continue up the northern border all the way to the neighbor's place up by the road. Problem with that is there are neighbors up there with free roaming dogs and I really don't want to press their/my/Mel's luck at least not until I get goat/sheep fencing up. Right now it's 4 strand barbed wire that the dogs can go right through in either direction.

When he's escaped out back he immediately goes to the edge of the field and starts walking the perimeter, sniffing and marking. I "head him off" and collar him and lead him back inside the fenced pasture area. He's tried to go under the fence into the woods way back when first here, but I yelled at him and stopped him. Since then he's never tried to enter the woods. But if he realizes he can be free and unattended, I have no idea what he'll do or where he'll go.

Almost solid cloud cover now. Not that cold out but damp. At least there's presently no sub freezing temps forecast. I'm sure that will happen soon enough as well. Son and his fam are leaving early tomorrow morning for the drive back to Las Vegas. They expect to get home around 11pm or so. They're pacific time zone, here I'm central.


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## Baymule

Trip has pissed me off. WRONG THING TO DO.

He has an appointment Thursday to lose his family jewels. I'm done. He has been in the backyard behind a hot wire for WEEKS. I let him out while I am out feeding or doing stuff, but I have to keep an eye on him. There is/was a female in heat somewhere in the neighborhood and he jumped out several times, twice while were gone. Just lucky someone didn't stop, open their truck door and take him home. The final straw came a few days ago when I had him out with me and he jumped out and took off down the road. I went out the front gate and RAN down the road after him. I called him, he was torn between minding me or whatever was in his thick head and paused long enough for me to catch him. I grabbed his collar and dragged him to the backyard. Then because I ran, my left knee swelled up and I lurched from side to side like a roaring drunk for days. We are going to electrify Pasture #1 first because we can attach the wire to the hot wire that goes around the backyard. The rest of the place will require a solar set up. 

He has always jumped in and out of pastures at will, that was ok. He is a good guardian, on his terms. He jumps in, checks everything out, then jumps out. In the winter cold, he has a bed on the screened porch, a door is always propped open for him. In the summer heat, he is under the porch. Night and moderate weather he is usually halfway up the driveway surveying his kingdom. Thunderstorms, he is in the house. Yeah, he's a spoiled brat. 

Joe, Mel now knows that he can jump out.


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## Latestarter

Baymule said:


> Mel now knows that he can jump out.


Yeah... Exactly my concern... agreed...   I'm hoping it was just the fireworks/guns and the fact that my son's 2 (spayed female) dogs were here along with Elf that brought him into the back yard wanting to be indoors...  So sorry Trip has gone "rogue" on you Bay... That sucks and I'm sure it's because he's a Pyr. Mel is 50/50 but is "more" Toli than Pyr, so I'm hanging on that as a saving grace and hope he doesn't develop the Pyr wanderlust...

Just took another egg custard pie out of the oven. My daughter-in-law calls it "scrambled egg pie" because she can smell and taste the egg in it. She doesn't consider it "custard" and doesn't know what "custard" is. She said it reminds her of quiche with sugar... nobody in their family cares for it. I actually like it pretty well.  It uses a bunch of eggs and if I had goat milk would help use that as well. I haven't yet tried the pound cake recipe I got from the old folks home over on BYC... but really should print that out and give that a try as well. It uses even more eggs.


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## frustratedearthmother

Jumping dogs....they sure can be a headache.  Cowboy hasn't escaped even once since the electric went up around here - even when it's off!


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## Baymule

I miss him being out in the front, hanging out.  Right now he is asleep on the floor.


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## Latestarter

What a downer of a day. My son and family left at 6am this morning. I'm thankful he left early, as he should have moved west past the main area of this now named winter storm. I am sooooooooooooo over rain and wet, mud, soggy, gray, damp, cold days. I moved here from Colorado because there is water/rain here, but must there be so much, so frequently? A couple months ago I really needed this moisture. Now? Not so much! I know there are many others here dealing with the same issue, and many even worse than I have.   Once again, this crap reaches up into TN and southern KY and all the way over into southern VA and northern NC. It's just more than any of us really need. Heard the thunder and let Mel in at 4:20am. Been raining ever since to varying degrees, but steady. Expected to continue just like this here until Thursday evening into Friday morning.  It's still only Wednesday... 

The goats got fed pellets and hay inside their nice dry shelter this morning, and looks like they'll be getting fed inside there for the next day and a half or so... I can't express how glad I am that my son came for those few days and helped me so I could get it finished before real winter weather arrived. Not expected to clear out here till Friday am. I'm NOT providing them drinking water in there... they're just gonna have to brave the rain and step outside around the corner to their trough. I had really hoped that the grand kids could have a ball and help me paint it, but it was too wet, too cold, and too close to swamp conditions in the pen.   I told them I'd try to leave it till they come this summer so they can paint. We'll see... I may have little choice in the matter... 

I've been sleeping in the guest bed while my son was here and though not terrible, it isn't "home" if you catch my drift. So haven't slept real sound (less than normal), and made up for it today. After the kids left in the beginning/light rain, I put all the bedding in the wash & settled down in my recliner for a while till it was light enough to go feed the goats. That was around 9am. After that, back in the recliner and dozed/slept until I got up and signed on here. I'll be back doing animals chores once again in about 45 minutes to an hour. Need to start earlier today as it's going to get dark earlier and the goats will be inside, which gets dark earlier. Gotta get the bedding into the dryer so I can make at least my bed for tonight. Gonna feel good to climb into after a nice hot shower 

Have one bag of goat feed left and called/ordered a dozen for pick up Monday. My hay is disappearing fast also... down to 3 bales left out of the 12. Gonna need to re-stock that probably the end of next week or early the week after as well.


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## greybeard

Except for drought years, this is fairly typical early winter weather for the Eastern part of Texas. Last few years were the same way, and you'd have to go back to 2011/2012 to find it much different. 
It was certainly this way in the 70s thru late 80s and into the 90s here as well.


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## B&B Happy goats

Not much beats a hot shower, clean sheets and your own bed.....sleep well


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## farmerjan

greybeard said:


> Except for drought years, this is fairly typical early winter weather for the Eastern part of Texas. Last few years were the same way, and you'd have to go back to 2011/2012 to find it much different.
> It was certainly this way in the 70s thru late 80s and into the 90s here as well.



I had no idea that any of Texas got that much rain.  Looking at a post somewhere, it said normal is like 55 inches?  Wow, we normally have 36 in a year.... and we had about 66 this past year.  Didn't see the official totals, but it was in the 63 " range north of here.... Regardless, at this point 2-5 inches isn't making a difference.  It is way too much. And we never used to get this kind of rain and such.  We would be having nights in the 20's and days in the 30-40.  And more snow and less thawing.  
Did I mention that it is RAINING AGAIN"?  not hard, guess it is the fringes of what you are having south and west, we are supposed to have a little clearing tomorrow, then rain again Fri into Sat....

Lord love a duck cuz there ain't much else around here that would be liking this weather.


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## Baymule

We went to town to pick up our granddaughters and sleet was hitting the windshield. We have got 1 1/4” of rain today as of 5:00 PM. Phooey.


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## Rammy

Its trying to rain here again.


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## CntryBoy777

Glad ya had a nice visit with the family Joe....hope they have safe travels back to tinsel town....
I remember how miserable it was dealing with those conditions back where we came from and tho I miss the goats greatly, I certainly don't miss the weather......but, I must admit @farmerjan I really did enjoy watching the ducks have a Blast out in it..........it was sunny and hit 83 here today.... .....I just figured it was coming....


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## frustratedearthmother

And just for good measure - here's another:  

Been raining allll day... gonna rain allll night...gonna rain tomorrow....


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> I had no idea that any of Texas got that much rain.  Looking at a post somewhere, it said normal is like 55 inches?  Wow, we normally have 36 in a year.... and we had about 66 this past year.  Didn't see the official totals, but it was in the 63 " range north of here.... Regardless, at this point 2-5 inches isn't making a difference.  It is way too much. And we never used to get this kind of rain and such.  We would be having nights in the 20's and days in the 30-40.  And more snow and less thawing.
> Did I mention that it is RAINING AGAIN"?  not hard, guess it is the fringes of what you are having south and west, we are supposed to have a little clearing tomorrow, then rain again Fri into Sat....
> 
> Lord love a duck cuz there ain't much else around here that would be liking this weather.


The avg for the whole State of Texas is about 34"
Much of East Texas was and is covered by a roughly defined ecoregion called The Big Thicket as well as the Piney Woods region. The southern part of that is, in every sense of the word, a rain forest. 
The average for my particular county (San Jacinto) is officially 51"/year. 2 days into the new year, we only have 48 more inches to meet that average. Of course, in 2017, we got nearly that average over a 4 day period in late August.


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## Latestarter

Well, the heaviest flow has now moved east of me. Still cool, cloudy, wet, and misty. Seems the low is right over the SE corner of NM and has started pulling up future bands from the S/SW... Those are probably building up for me tomorrow as they move east. Right now @Mike CHS @Rammy @farmerjan and @Mini Horses are in the flow. Guess the NC contingent is getting the southern part of the flow. All the same folks who have already enjoyed so much moisture.


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## Rammy

We have forecasts for rain next couple days. Been waiting for it to dry up some so I can spread some seed but just when the conditions are good, it rains again. Going to try for this weekend.


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## greybeard

I hope it moves on out quickly. River is already at the height it was not forecast to reach until noon tomorrow (which is really 'today', since it's now after midnight)


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## greybeard

What I get, everybody to the N, NE and E are gonna get.
It's rained "a crapload" this morning beginning again about 4:30am.



 
(mentone is nice and clear and dry....


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## Mike CHS

I just emptied our rain gauge and it had a little over 3" from the last day and a half


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## B&B Happy goats

Mike CHS said:


> I just emptied our rain gauge and it had a little over 3" from the last day and a half


Thats  not fun to deal with that much rain, ....i feel really bad for all getting drenched. And trying to manage their animals...........our water levels are getting  almost high enough to cover some low roads in our county....the road to the river is flooded  from the the boat ramp up about a quarter mile , and that has traveled through the woods , road ditches and peoples yards....we could of bought river front property, lol....thanks i will keep a safe distance ....why ask for trouble, pay double and get zapped with higher property taxs ?  Sure do hope the rain quits for you guys and things dry up.


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## RollingAcres

We had a dusting of snow early this morning but all should melt by the afternoon. Supposed to get up to 40 degrees today, will be partly sunny. Tomorrow will be warm-ish(for @Bruce and I, 40 degrees is "warm" lol) and sunny, so should be nice.



Latestarter said:


> I've been sleeping in the guest bed while my son was here and though not terrible, it isn't "home" if you catch my drift.


Yeah, we KNOW your sleeping habit.


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## Mini Horses

Talk about "in this together"...   The rains are just not letting up for anyone!  Some of you have HUGE issues with flood and mud.   I see ditches along the roads holding water which are generally dry within a day.  Nope, nothing dry for couple weeks.   Farmers can't farm!    Closer to coast near me, yep neighborhoods are underwater.   Even though those with "known" issues that they "plan" for, it's getting really, really tough.   This constant thing is so bad. 

I'm looking out there and thinking "what to do"  

We are all sharing these thoughts in the SE areas.    It's so not fair.  It's so depressing.  Just sunshine could "help".

I believe this is an "eat a donut or 12" type day!!   

I actually understand how my goats feel -- just looking out & wishing.


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## greybeard

As Yogi Berra said.......Deja vu all over again...


 

Scroll down thru the daily levels. you will see the river had just within the last few days gone back down.

https://water.weather.gov/ahps2/riv...141472,143495,141611,141806,142446&data[]=obs


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## Latestarter

Like the Forrest Gump caption... Beginning to feel like it.

Yup... as I expected last night... Considered using a row boat to do animal chores this morning. Woke up and it was still dark outside. Heard the rain pounding down on the roof. Rolled over to see what time it was, contemplating going back to sleep for a while only to see the clock destroy that idea... it was 8am.  So much for more sleep. Up & at 'em. Caught a slight lull in the rain to go feed the goats but soaked through my footwear and have water/poo mud "collars" around the bottom of my pant legs.  1st wear of these clean jeans...   Oh well, another wet day in store.


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## greybeard

It better stop soon. My only exit out of my property. So far, I can get thru it in my truck.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh goodness... not looking good!


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## Latestarter

Gotta say GB, sure makes me glad to be living near the top of a hill. Long as I have enough food, there's no need to hurry out and about and deal with flooded roads etc. Hope that flow doesn't wash the road bed out on you. Is there any way you could install a line of culverts at the low point and raise the road bed by a foot or so over the top of them? I mean I don't know if the road is on your property or govt property...


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## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> View attachment 56640
> It better stop soon. My only exit out of my property. So far, I can get thru it in my truck.


Yikes! You'll need to use your canoe soon to get out.


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## greybeard

It's on my sister's property. There's two sets totaling 48" of culvert under there, but every time it rains, all the area to the right is National Forest and the US Govt/public domain water washes all kinds of Public Govt debris into the culvert entrance and partially or full plugs it off.  I had just cleaned it out 4 days ago.


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## Baymule

We got 1 1/4" yesterday and another 3/4" by 9:00 this morning when I was slopping around feeding animals. Had already been to town twice. There is water everywhere. Our driveway is slush and that almost never happens. We are up high and not-so-dry, but at least we won't flood. Still raining. We got 7 1/2 inches last week.


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## farmerjan

We aren't getting near the amount that you are.  From the 22nd of Dec til Jan 1st we had about 4 3/4 inches.  Have only had sprinkles, light showers in the last 2 days, I will go over and look at the rain gauge when I go out to load equipment to go to work here in a little bit.  Ours is not running like yours either.  But our ground is colder and soaks up next to none of it this time of year up here. 
It's the cloudy, grey dreary days that are getting to me.

On a brighter note, the 2 calves that were sick looked much better yesterday... but the mud is getting deeper.


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## greybeard

Rain has stopped here but still cloudy and a bit of mist every once in awhile. Wind has picked up and blowing out of the WNW so maybe this is the end of the heavy stuff. My sis poured 4 1/2" out of her rain gage about an hour ago that fell since dark last night.


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## greybeard

Finally got the culverts unplugged, or at least one of them and the water did flow! Didn't take long for it to go down after a period of multiple whirlpools, and scary suckin  noises. 



 
that's the inlet side..that's your water..belongs to the taxpayer and I wish you'd come get it /\

The outlet side across the roadway:


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## Latestarter

That low seems to be just about due north of DFW right now, so hopefully we should be about done with the serious rain here. Most of the stuff showing on radar is now clearing out of LA and is solid over MS, AR, and OK, with the flow stretching into AL & GA. Still solid overcast here, misty off and on, and getting cooler. Supposed to be in the upper 30s tonight.

Went and bought $100 worth of dog food. That will take me through the month. Have to pick up $150 of goat pellets, chicken pellets, & goat minerals on Monday. Will be looking to get hay probably mid-late next week. That'll be another ~$150+. Only 2 full bales left and 1/2 of the one I'm into right now.

I had bought a 23 lb frozen turkey for when the kids were here, only to find out that my son had cooked 2 in the past month, so didn't use it while they were here. I took it out this afternoon and expect to cook it Saturday. I have 5 or 6 more smaller birds; 12-15lb in the freezer for use through 2019. Thinking about birds, collected eggs this afternoon and got my first double yolker from them. One of those gals has to have a pretty sore butt. The shell was much thinner than normal and I peeled some off while trying to get it under the fence. The inner membrane didn't break but I'll have to use it directly.


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## B&B Happy goats

Hope you Texans get some dry  weather.....real soon


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## CntryBoy777

Sounds like several here may need to invest in some hip waders with all that moisture collecting and flowing....I hope the tracks of the train changes for many and ya can at least dry out some....


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## Mini Horses

@greybeard, sorry but it's too far for this taxpayer to come and get my share -- so, I'm giving it to you.  Do with it as you please.   Sorry.


Well, it sounds like there will be PLENTY of turkey sandwiches there LS.        Mel & Elf would probably like a couple, too.  A little gravy on their kibble, at least.

These animals sure keep eating!!  This time of year, with grass down, I spend a lot at the feed stores.  Hay?  Wow, pricy.  Bad year for making hay with the weather.  BUT --  gotta buy.


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## greybeard

Beautiful night now, clear and full of stars and the Quadrantid meteors are streaming!
(They are peaking right now, but only for a few hours and then are gone till next year.)
*Jan 3-4 — Quadrantids meteor shower: *_This is an above-average meteor shower, running from Jan. 1-10. It peaks overnight Jan. 3-4 and reliably produces about 40 meteors an hour at its peak. Though the Quadrantids lack persistent trails, they can produce fireballs. Discovered in 2003, the shower is thought to be produced by grain dusts left behind by the extinct comet 2003 EH1. The moon will be only a thin crescent, which should make for prime viewing conditions. The meteors radiate from the constellation Bootes, but you can see them from anywhere in the sky. The best viewing times are after midnight._


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## Latestarter

Still gray and overcast here. Temp has dropped a lot @39 with wind chill below freezing. Got right gusty here overnight. Woke at 3am to what sounded like a freight train passing. We weren't seeing any stars or shooting stars here last night or the previous couple of nights. Supposed to clear off later today and sunshine predominate with temps in low 50s. I'll believe that when I see it. Let's just say I have my doubts at this point.

Went and slogged through the poo mud in the goat pen to collect the feed bowls from inside the shelter. Fed them outside this morning in that cold biting wind. Since the next several days are supposed to be dry, I don't want to have to drudge through all that muck multiple times a day to feed them. Supposed to be right at/about freezing tonight, then overnight temps in the 40's to low 50s.

Tomorrow starts the best part of the football season for those who care. Wild card weekend!  Most fans' teams are already done for the year, but for the 12 teams (of 32) who are still playing,  there are some really good match ups this weekend.  The best 4 teams get to sit back and watch this weekend as well as they see who wins and they will face next weekend.


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## Rammy

Its raining here right now, too. I think its suppose to for the better part of the day. Im so over the rain here also. Hope you get dried out down there so you dont have to slop thru all that nasty poo mud.   I know its not fun. I have cows.


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## Mini Horses

Rained yesterday AM...then overcast....not supposed to rain again until tonight.   They lied.  It's been here all day!    Not heavy but so, so wet.  

Off all week and rain, all week...…. That's 2 weeks in a row.  GEESH.   I'm not a football fan but, inside you gotta do something.   Worked on a required computer course this AM, that's 3 hrs pay without leaving the house.    And only good news I have  

Back to work Monday.   Probably in raging bright sun


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## Latestarter

The sun actually did what it was supposed to do and came out of hiding this afternoon. Warmed up to the low 50s as advertised. Wind dropped off to a whisper, so it was actually almost pleasant outside. Still way to wet & muddy to do anything and I'm still squishing and sliding around with every step, in cold, wet, poo mud encrusted footwear... Tomorrow is supposed to be low 60s and Sunday near 70!  But then of course forecast is for more showers Sunday night and into Monday , but low probability and only slight chance, then back to sun and warm on Tuesday.


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## B&B Happy goats

Every one of us is complaining  about the rain......only good thing I can say is its  better than a drought but if it doesn't  stop soon our next project is a ARK !
I'M  happy you got to see the sun today....this reminds me of why I moved away from grey skys  to the sunshine state...


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## frustratedearthmother

I wouldn't mind a "controlled" drought.  I could go another 3 or  4 months without rain and be a happy gal!


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## B&B Happy goats

frustratedearthmother said:


> I wouldn't mind a "controlled" drought.  I could go another 3 or  4 months without rain and be a happy gal!



Thats the problem...we haven't  found out who control's  the weather....till we do...every day is a new adventure. Although they have been soggy adventures.....


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## frustratedearthmother

I would like to volunteer for the job of weather controller.   I would totally be fair and impartial...at least as long as I'm happy.  I take "happiness" contributions!


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## Rammy

Ever hear about the HAARP program (High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program).
Its not what they say it is.  (Ominous music plays in the background).


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## B&B Happy goats

frustratedearthmother said:


> I would like to volunteer for the job of weather controller.   I would totally be fair and impartial...at least as long as I'm happy.  I take "happiness" contributions!



You got my vote for sure ! You are welcome to take half of our rainy season and give it to thoes in need .


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Gotta say GB, sure makes me glad to be living near the top of a hill. Long as I have enough food, there's no need to hurry out and about and deal with flooded roads etc. Hope that flow doesn't wash the road bed out on you. Is there any way you could install a line of culverts at the low point and raise the road bed by a foot or so over the top of them? I mean I don't know if the road is on your property or govt property...


You drove over that crossing coming in to my property, just after you entered the open gate and turned left down the powerline. There were some dark planks on the right as you crossed over it...retaining wall for the dirt and gravel on the crossing.

I opened one culvert up yesterday so the water would drop below the roadway.
Today I finished cleaning it out....I think this is the 3rd time since last winter (It's never a problem in spring or summer.only in winter after the public's hated trees have dropped their leaves and needle for the public's hated water to carry onto my property.)






The fence really serves no purpose other than to maintain property line.....I ran another fence the whole length of the road so we didn't have to have cows on our road or open and close any gates when we came and went to/from town. Our gate stays open 24/7/365. Ain't skeered.

The drop is more than it looks.the rope is tied to my pickup rail so I can pull myself back up.




What I pulled out of it. (My house is back behind the truck about 1000'.)





And then, dog and I went exploring, I on the 4 wheeler and she tagging along beside.I drove thru a lot of river backwater to get to this point.
I'm just looking, she's looking for something to chase. Not much left around here for that purpose. This is down very close to the river, looking over into my deceased brother's property. (still for sale AFAIK)




Returning from our exploratory walkabout..
From the far side of the big pond, looking up toward the house. There is normally a dock just to the left of the boat and to the right of the light post but the dock is currently underwater. The green box with the white PVC on it against the tree in the left foreground is a duck nesting box that I haven't yet put back up on it's mounting post after a previous flood event. You can see the steel post that the duck box mounts to..next to the other pine tree. (Yes, the box floated off the top of the post in high water)


----------



## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> I would like to volunteer for the job of weather controller.   I would totally be fair and impartial...at least as long as I'm happy.  I take "happiness" contributions!


Works for me but you must also take all the remaining trees on my place and all the rain I get for the next 3 months. (Sorry.there are no free rides. You have to accept a bit of downside with the 'happiness contributions'


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## frustratedearthmother

Will take that under consideration...lol.  

Tsk,tsk,tsk - ya'll are giving me conditions... if I'm "controller" ya'll gotta deal with what I dish out!  However, I might consider certain trees a contribution, with the exception of tallow trees!  Just got rid of a bunch of those.


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## farmerjan

frustratedearthmother said:


> Will take that under consideration...lol.
> 
> Tsk,tsk,tsk - ya'll are giving me conditions... if I'm "controller" ya'll gotta deal with what I dish out!  However, I might consider certain trees a contribution, with the exception of tallow trees!  Just got rid of a bunch of those.



Considering that I remember reading how much @greybeard  "loves" chinese tallow trees, I think those were some he was wanting to give you...


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## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> if I'm "controller" ya'll gotta deal with what I dish out!


Well, to be honest, when you look at it like that, "these things  you say we will have, we already have."


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## frustratedearthmother

True that... 

I'm giving my notice... ya'll are too demanding, lol!   

But, we're supposed to have sunshine here for two more days and I'm darn thankful!


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> Considering that I remember reading how much @greybeard  "loves" chinese tallow trees, I think those were some he was wanting to give you...


I wuz really thinking cedar and pine...I've pretty much killed off all the tallow trees.


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## greybeard

All done, the crap loaded on a trailer and hauled to a compost pile. Tightened up both the turnbuckles a little and good to go again..till the next big rain anyway. (the sun didn't cooperate with the camera....most of the light colored stuff is foam in the water)


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## CntryBoy777

It is a shame ya can't put something up to assist in keeping the debris from blocking the flow GB....kinda like those gutters on houses that the debris slides over, but the water flows into the gutter....that sure is a bunch of hard work keeping that cleared with the water rising as much as it has so often...here as of late....


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## Latestarter

There are diverters of various designs. The design to have stuff float up and over the culvert, allowing water to flow through. Below compliments of www.azdot.gov 





to see the PDF document: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...aw0Z2brHK389giItUCA72G_Q&ust=1546882950321036


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## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> It is a shame ya can't put something up to assist in keeping the debris from blocking the flow GB....kinda like those gutters on houses that the debris slides over, but the water flows into the gutter..



I could easily enough, build a debris diverter grid if, not for the sheer size of the watershed this little 'usually dry' creek  drains and due to the height of the roadway above the culverts and bottom of the 'creek'.
The creek drains about 60 acres immediately to the west and nw of me, but also drains a couple of hundred acres from across the nearest paved county road, just to the north of me, thru 2 different large culverts under that highway about 100 yards apart.

The volume of forest floor debris exposed to that water flow is simply incalculable. I walked into it several hundred yards, and it's no exagerration to say the biomass on the ground is 1' thick. Oak, sweetgum, magnolia leaves and of course, many many tons of pine needles. It is treacherous walking..quicksand is common in that area in all but the driest times.

The National Forest floor's topo is dynamic,...always changing, and I have noticed the flow thru this set of culverts I maintain has increased at least twofold since Hurricane Harvey. There is another set of drainage culverts flowing runoff onto this property about 2000' straight up my private access road to the North & I have noticed, that in the last few big rain events since late summer 2017, that the flow thru that set of culverts has become minimal, which leads me to believe the immense rainfall from Harvey scoured out the area so that instead of the drainage being shared between the two, it is almost 100% directed at the one I'm now having so much trouble with. Since all that drainage comes from Nat'l Forest, there's nothing I can do to make it change back like it was. 
The area encompassed by the black line drains into my property.
'A' is a defunct drain, with a culvert under my road, that hasn't flowed any water in about 12 years. I traced it out into the forest, but suspect it has filled in with forest debris.
"B' is a moderate sized drainage coming from across the highway that used to flow a LOT of water pre-Harvey into a small pond in the front of the property and then on into my pond to the South.
'C' is a major drain that flows under the same highway and meanders thru the whole length of the property to the west and ends up at the crossing and culverts I just cleaned out.
I believe that 'B' and 'C' now communicate (yellow dotted line) and most of 'B's flow has joined 'C' which accounts for why I'm seeing so much more flow at the southerly end than I used to.



This of course, refers only to local runoff from heavy rains. Once the river comes up from the 65 miles of upstream river watershed, the dynamic is completely different as the water approaches from the East. (Harvey being an exception....it came from everywhere.)
(I don't know why the Williams Food Products thing is there on Google maps. There's certainly nothing at all at that location.....it's all National Forest.)


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Caught a slight lull in the rain to go feed the goats but soaked through my footwear and have water/poo mud "collars" around the bottom of my pant legs.  1st wear of these clean jeans...  Oh well, another wet day in store.


Seems like you REALLY need to get some waterproof boots for the wet season.


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## Latestarter

problem is leg and foot swelling... about impossible to find boots cut low enough to not "bind" on my calf and still be workable... Have thought about buying a pair and simply cutting the tops off them to leave them just above ankle level. Worried that the cut edge would rub raw the flesh around my ankles though. Also, they would need to be able to slip on and slip off easily.


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## Mike CHS

I don't envy you your footwear issues.


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## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> problem is leg and foot swelling... about impossible to find boots cut low enough to not "bind" on my calf and still be workable... Have thought about buying a pair and simply cutting the tops off them to leave them just above ankle level. Worried that the cut edge would rub raw the flesh around my ankles though. Also, they would need to be able to slip on and slip off easily.




Hey there....i ordered rubber boots online as they had a better size selection, then cut tops to my desired boot height, you can use duct tape to make top edge smoother if ot hits your skin....we all gotta do things outside the box some times...husband has two diffrent sized feet with two size widths, and hardly any calf muscles. ...i manage to find boots and refit them....just a idea for you


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Have you considered getting boots that are larger than your normal size and then wearing extra socks on your feet?  I accidentally did that in that my wife picked out a set of mud boots that were a size too large.  I put on an extra pair of socks to make my foot fit better, and it worked.  I can get the boots on and off easier and my feet don't slip around inside the boots.


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## Latestarter

Normally around the home place I don't wear socks...  Most of the time in the house I wear a pair of fleece lined moccasin slippers so when I need to go out, I slip my feet out of those and into my "work loafers" that I wear in the yard. If I'll be doing serious outside work or going someplace other than wallyworld, I'll put on socks and sneakers. Even then, if it will be a quick round trip, I'll sometimes just leave my moccasins on or slip on a pair of flip flops. Haven't worn dress shoes in a long long time...  So ideally, a pair of "insulated" boots that I can slip on and off barefoot would be ideal. Like you said STA... I need them tight enough so my feet don't slide around too much, yet loose enough to get on and off easily and not irritate my calf. OK, enough about my footwear... on to more important things 

Need to go pick up the feed I ordered today. Of course that means it's sprinkling out  Can't have a dozen bags of feed getting wet on the hour ride home... Looked at the radar and it appears to be a weak band moving east and should be clear in a couple of hours. Wanted to get the drive done early but I guess it's gonna be later instead.

I recall mentioning that my rain gauge was lying... Did a detailed examination and indeed it is. I had broken the top of it with the weed whacker quite a while back but didn't notice that it had also caused a crack down the back corner to about the 1" mark. Might explain why with all the rain I've had it always seemed to be no more than ~ an inch and a quarter when I knew damned well it was 3-4 times that.   Planning on picking up a new one today while out. I'd like to get one that I can mount on a T-post or pole so I don't have to worry about hitting it again.


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## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> Normally around the home place I don't wear socks...  Most of the time in the house I wear a pair of fleece lined moccasin slippers so when I need to go out, I slip my feet out of those and into my "work loafers" that I wear in the yard. If I'll be doing serious outside work or going someplace other than wallyworld, I'll put on socks and sneakers. Even then, if it will be a quick round trip, I'll sometimes just leave my moccasins on or slip on a pair of flip flops. Haven't worn dress shoes in a long long time...  So ideally, a pair of "insulated" boots that I can slip on and off barefoot would be ideal. Like you said STA... I need them tight enough so my feet don't slide around too much, yet loose enough to get on and off easily and not irritate my calf. OK, enough about my footwear... on to more important things
> 
> Need to go pick up the feed I ordered today. Of course that means it's sprinkling out  Can't have a dozen bags of feed getting wet on the hour ride home... Looked at the radar and it appears to be a weak band moving east and should be clear in a couple of hours. Wanted to get the drive done early but I guess it's gonna be later instead.
> 
> I recall mentioning that my rain gauge was lying... Did a detailed examination and indeed it is. I had broken the top of it with the weed whacker quite a while back but didn't notice that it had also caused a crack down the back corner to about the 1" mark. Might explain why with all the rain I've had it always seemed to be no more than ~ an inch and a quarter when I knew damned well it was 3-4 times that.   Planning on picking up a new one today while out. I'd like to get one that I can mount on a T-post or pole so I don't have to worry about hitting it again.



Sorry to bug you again...I know I don't  buy as much feed in one trip as you do ...but when its raining (usual for this part of fl.) We have a box of extra large lawn and leaf bags that i keep in the truck...have used them for bales of hay, feed and then reuse them for another project...my trips are about six bags and four bales....Hope ya have a great day latestarter


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## Mike CHS

Joe - they aren't useful for any mud work but one of my Christmas gifts was a new pair of Crocs that are insulated. and slip on


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## RollingAcres

Mike CHS said:


> one of my Christmas gifts was a new pair of Crocs that are insulated. and slip on


Mike and his Crocs! My son loves his slip on insulated Crocs!


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## Goat Whisperer

Have you looked at something like this? https://www.muckbootcompany.com/pro...yJssCMwcyc0qAdE6czKK2czRODj5rU-AaAuu-EALw_wcB

I believe Muck has several different types that are similar.

Mucks are $$$ but if you watch. you can get them on sale (amazon and TSC are what I tend to watch) and you can find then for substantially less. I just got a $170 pair of Muck Boots for like $80. You can also find a generic brand too.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Muck boots are what I have, but they come up to the middle of my calf.  They're great!  But I didn't get them on sale.


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## greybeard

I very much like 
https://www.rockyboots.com/rubber-boots/


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## Latestarter

Thanks all... those mucks that GW linked look like just the thing... but wow... $110.00 ouch!  I saved the link and will see if I can find them on VERY deep discount...

So the feed has been purchased and stored away in the out bldg. Both goat and chicken pellets. Dog food was purchased last week. Hay is still to come, probably Thursday (I hope & hope he has what I want). All animals are celebrating and dancing in their respective environments for the knowledge that there is no threat or imminent danger of starvation. Gonna have to give the last whole bale to the boy goats tonight and the one that's opened for the does is about 1/4 gone. Now that I think about it, better go get hay Wednesday... That's most likely when I'll run out.

I stopped at the Atwoods in Sulpher Springs before the feed store to see about a proper rain gauge. All they had were these tiny 6" tall ones. Nope... not at all what I want. So at the feed store, I asked if they off hand happened to carry rain gauges and they did!  And it was exactly the one I wanted as well... about 2' tall, measures up to 8" of rain, and slides into a mounting bracket that can be zip tied to a t-post. Top that off with it was about 10 bucks, cheaper than I'd found searching the internet.    All installed and awaiting it's first test run. Of course now I've probably invited the start of the great drought of 2019... 

I've been using the Dumor brand goat minerals from TSC in the orange bag; 8lbs each. The goats like it OK but while there, I also asked what they might have for goat minerals. They had 25 lb bags of Sweetlix meat maker mineral in 25 pound bags for about what or less than what I was paying for the 8 lb from TSC. That was a no brainer. Everything I've seen posted here gave good reviews. I'll be sampling it out to them soon as the last of the Dumor is gone... maybe mix the last with the new... Sure hope they like it. I sure won't be holding the bag open for them to stick their heads in and eat though... I must confess, I enjoyed seeing a goat with its head stuck all the way inside a bag so its eyes were even covered. I guess that's showing some trust huh? 

Speaking of eating... Hadn't had anything yet today and was sorely tempted to stop at a fast food place while out but I was a good boy... Finishing up the last of 2 big turkey sandwiches on wheat toast. Along with, had a big handful of Frito's corn chips. Like the goats, was craving some salt. Driving back home in anticipation of said sandwiches, I also realized I was low on bread so stopped at the "day old" bread store only to find the shelves barren. Ended up stopping at the grocer instead and picked up a couple of loaves along with a couple pkgs of english muffins, some bananas, oranges, 3 family packs of pork chops for $1.29/lb , a couple of 3lb pkgs of bacon (the kind I like) for under $10 each, and a 5 lb bag of baker's potatoes. All for ~$50   Just opened my last gallon of milk so should be good till the end of the week at least.

So it's quarter past 4 already... Need to go repackage the chops and get them in the freezer, then it'll be about time to go start animal chores. Been a lovely day today with the temp about 75° and light breezes. Had the thermostat inside set to 66° overnight, and glad because it's still cool enough inside to not need the AC.


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## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Sweetlicks


Is it spelled exactly as you posted it or is spelled 'Sweetlix'?
Sweetlix brand has been around awhile and is very high quality for a wide range of species...they have a good reputation.


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## Latestarter

You got it right GB... sweetlix.  corrected in the original post.


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## Rammy

Sounds like you had a productive day and found a few bargains on top of that. Glad you found the rain gauge you wanted. Sounds nice.
I see also you found out TSC isnt always a bargain on feed. Thats why I go up to the Amish place in KY to get mine. I can get 300lbs of layer mash for less than $40.00.
Chickens lay well on it.  My goal this year is to stay away from the big box stores and shop locally owned.


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## Latestarter

Stripped the turkey carcass down to parade rest this afternoon. Made several zip locks with turkey and gravy. Some chopped, some sliced for sandwiches. Figured the gravy would help prevent freezer burn to the meat and wouldn't hurt in a sandwich anyway. Scrap bits made a bowl full of turkey salad, and the residue made enough supplemental/additive dog food for several days. The salad ought to last me another several days and I'm getting tired of turkey at this point.

Did animal chores this evening in shorts and a T-shirt... Down to 58° now, so was a little chilly by the time they were done and I came in (after dark). But it was another really nice day. Winter hasn't even hit yet and these past couple days have me ready for a prolonged spring! The ground is still very squishy however... with all the rain we've had it will take a while to dry out. And of course, that being said, we're forecast scattered rain starting Thursday for a couple of days.


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## Goat Whisperer

I'm curious to hear if your goats will eat the sweetlix. Ours won't touch it 
We have had the hardest time finding a good mineral they will eat. We finally found one, a cattle mineral. They love it, and it is less expensive then the sweetlix.


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## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> those mucks that GW linked look like just the thing... but wow... $110.00



Not sure what size boots you wear. Here are some sites with cheaper pricing for the same type/brand of boots:
https://mboots.factoryoutletstore.c...ZN7JtZkDArWgB2wooTACOAQLcHVWxBU0aAoQxEALw_wcB

https://shop.opticsplanet.com/muck-...YEwnre3qWp9BYjZ5BUVuKWRyZYoocAHMaApXwEALw_wcB


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## Latestarter

Thanks RA. Did a little Googling myself and found the lowest at ~$80 w/free shipping. A bit more palatable, but still pretty steep for a pair of ankle high rubber boots... Can't cost more than $10-20 to manufacture. Probably less if made in China (or India)...


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## greybeard

I tend to take a long and wide view of all things. 
Dry feet are worth a lot of $$ to me...especially in winter.
Like everything else farm related, average the cost out over the life of the object being used. If they last 3 years, that's just $2.2/month (or 7¢/day)  to have warm dry feet.


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## RollingAcres

Certain things I will spend more on and certain things not so much. 



greybeard said:


> Dry feet are worth a lot of $$ to me...especially in winter.


Totally agree!


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Thanks RA. Did a little Googling myself and found the lowest at ~$80 w/free shipping. A bit more palatable, but still pretty steep for a pair of ankle high rubber boots... Can't cost more than $10-20 to manufacture. Probably less if made in China (or India)...


How much does it cost to continually replace your current type of non water loving footwear?
And yeah, dry feet are worth a lot. Cold wet feet, not so much.


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## Latestarter

Present foot wear costs between $10 & $15 depending on how much they're priced at when I need them. Average life span is maybe 3-5 months, depending on what abuse they're put through. So maybe 3-4 pair a year. The last pair must have been defective cause they lasted less than 2 months. Did a lot of hunting up in New England when I was younger (& lived there)... Still remember cold wet feet all too well. Mostly it was because my feet sweat, making them wet... They generally didn't get cold until they were wet.

So my hay guy didn't have what I wanted exactly... no small bales of the mix   but did have 3x3x8' bales of mixed priced at $150. Said the weight was ~800 pounds and one he weighed was 790. He did have small bales of alfalfa bundled (21 bales/bundle) @$14/bale, but then realized he was short what he thought he had (9) and the ones left (6) were already sold to be delivered this afternoon.   He had some large squares (~100 lbs) @$24/bale, but they looked "old" to me, and to match weight would have cost almost $200. So... I went with the 3x3x8. He loaded in my bed with his tractor and I backed up to my outbldg, opened both doors, cut the 4 strands and broke it all down and moved it in. The stack is larger than the bales typically are, but then it's all loose and nowhere near as neat.  Oh well, gotta do what I gotta do and the goats need to eat.

Just finished and will be heading out to start evening chores here directly. They won't get any of the new stuff till tomorrow as the last of what was left was enough for their dinner tonight. I have to say that quality wise, I'm not impressed with what I bought. The bale I got was one that had been sitting on the ground so the bottom was mud smeared. It also felt kinda "damp" and didn't have that good "hay smell" when I was breaking it down. I'm a little concerned, now that it's not packed tightly and there's air, that any dampness might cause it to heat up or get moldy... Sure hope not. So unless forced, I don't think I'll go this route next time. I did do a search on the internet before I left to see what else might be available, and there was nothing close. If I was a bigger operation, had more money, had an accessible place for storage of large quantities, and needed same, & had a tractor to handle it, I'd buy a tractor trailer load myself and sell any extra. Seems there's nobody here in Mount Pleasant that has small bales of high/horse quality hay for sale. There must be other folks around me that would be interested. 

Well, today was the last nice day for a while... temp was supposed to hit 56° but when I left it seemed closer to 60ish to me. It's 56 right now & tonight will be in the low 30s then only 50 and upper 40's for the rest of the week with rain moving in & cloudy right through Sunday.  Well, sun's past the horizon... chores are calling.


----------



## Mini Horses

I've used those big bales....now there is a "flake" to challenge you!   Like all hay, quality is up & down.   I got some awesome orchard/alfalfa mix last yr.  This year, nope...dealer hasn't been able to get it.     Overall, hay as been expensive and mostly not near the quality of last year.   Weather has been a killer for most hay farms.

I'm going to look at some about 35 miles from me tomorrow.  Got some from him 2017, then he sold out.  Hoping it's decent this year.  He has square & rounds, plus, no chemicals.   Private farmer, decent prices.

I swear all animal feeds are skyrocketing.

Congrats on your "fast food" control


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## CntryBoy777

I do know $$ is a major obstacle, but a mini pole barn would be handy for ya for hay storage if nothing else....could rig a sliding hoist to unload and stack with....wouldn't have to be extremely big or expansive....


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## Latestarter

About had it with turkey so took out a rib eye for dinner tonight. Realized I haven't got the grill back to working right yet and with today's work, wasn't able to get it done today. So, I heated up the fry pan really hot with butter and some bacon grease and pan fried it. That was one of the best steaks I've had in quite a while. Was like Butta!  

There will be zero extra $$ expenditures from now till the end of 2019 Fred. In fact I will be pretty much in max conserve mode. The credit card is way too high and when it gets to the point that the interest is "eating" as much as the debt buy down each month, it's time to cut back.

Another little obstacle dawned on me while feeding the gals their hay tonight... The feeder is in the boy's pen and set up so I can lift a bale in, cut the strings, and they're good to go.  So when the next refill comes for them, I'm going to have to figure out how to get hay loaded in the feeder while keeping them from exiting the pen and keeping the others from trying to get in and eat their hay while I'm loading it from the wheel barrow. 

@Goat Whisperer I've been putting out the sweetlix and I've seen the buck; RJ and several of the does eating it. but not everyone yet. Late today I found the buck's mineral bowl flipped upside down and stomped into the liquefied poo-mud.   I couldn't see/find any spilled but all around where it was (inside the feeder on the shelf) is a mess... If they dumped it out there on the ground, I'd never be able to tell. When I refilled it tonight while bringing them their pellets, RJ did go eat some before going for his pellets. I found some dumped out on the ground by the girl's bowl, but nowhere near what I had put in there. They could have dumped it while fighting to see who could get the most of their head in the bowl... What one does, the rest have to do more of. Guess I'll just keep watching.


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## Goat Whisperer

It’s a shame the hay quality isn’t great. We feed the big squares, small squares are so pricey so we generally feed them at shows. We were spending almost twice $ for the same amount of hay.

I love the big bales though, thankfully our hay guy gets some good ones. Last week they had nice orchard and really nice orchard/alfalfa.
We wanted one of each, we would normally tie off to a big tree and drop the bale on a few 4x4s. Since everything is mud, we cut open the bale and stacked it on pallets in one of the buildings. With two people it's pretty easy, gotta be difficult with only one person!

Right now we are using a 15 passenger van to transport hay, which is nice because we can get hay rain or shine. Right now the orchard bale is still sitting in the van, but it stays dry  I like using a truck though, with the big bales. If you have somewhere to drop it, you can usually just push it off. It slides nicely.

Does your county extension have a hay directory? Our county extension agent told us of our hay guy. We've been using then since!

ETA: glad they are eating it (or appearing to LOL). It's a great mineral, I just don't know why ours wont touch it!


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Present foot wear costs between $10 & $15 depending on how much they're priced at when I need them. Average life span is maybe 3-5 months, depending on what abuse they're put through. So maybe 3-4 pair a year.


So $40-$60 per year. Good quality waterproof will last 2 years+ and you won't have to go out to buy new footwear every few months. In the end quality is cheaper.


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## Mike CHS

I have been wearing a pair of mud boots that was fairly expensive but I have been wearing them for almost 3 years.  Most days if it isn't too muddy I have 3 or 4 different styles of boot depending where I'm going in the paddocks so they get rotated.


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## CntryBoy777

My solution for footwear is lace up boots....they will expand and contract depending on how tight or lose the laces are....if ya want them to be slip-ons them don't lace them all the way up but just below the ankle and loosely tied....I deal with swelling also and circulation problems, too....I like hiking boots for working outside, but use rubber boots when it is really nasty outside.....


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## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> I have been wearing a pair of mud boots that was fairly expensive but I have been wearing them for almost 3 years.  Most days if it isn't too muddy I have 3 or 4 different styles of boot depending where I'm going in the paddocks so they get rotated.


Pretty much the same here. As long as I can refrain from using my boot as a hammer on the end of my leg, I can get 2-3...'maybe' 4 years out of a pair. It's usually the uppers tho, that I somehow get a hole in. I do not wear any kind of low top work boots.


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## Rammy

I had a pair of boots I had for YEARS. Those things lasted around 12-15 years before the soles came off. I wore them in the winter doing barnwork. They were insulated and waterproof and sure kept my feet dry and toasty. They were actually boys boots size 5 but fit my feet just fine. I dont remember the brand or how much I paid for them but sure got my moneys worth.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, it's now completely overcast and can feel the humidity rising. Said we were supposed to get to 53° today but I think we're done & maxed at 50° 

I needed to go get some more pine shavings for the goats so figured I'd hit the grocery as well. My "need" to purchase a gallon of milk and bottle of creamer turned into $50...   Why is it I can't leave wally world for less than $50?  Then swung into TSC and got the pine shavings. The goats now have some fresh bedding added.

They got their first feeding of the new hay this morning. Breaking down an 800 pound bale left a lot on the floor which I swept into a pile. That's what filled their bowls this morning. Though there was a lot of "chopped" blade and stem, there was even more leaf powder. They weren't very happy with me this morning. They kept wanting to check out the other group's bowls to see if it held the "good stuff" I normally feed them. I basically forced them to stay at their own bowls and eat. Love being a "hall monitor" for the goats.  Anyway, after adding the new bedding, I brought them down a cereal treat. They had pushed the bowls around, and had pawed at them spilling some of the powder, but they finished virtually all of everything in all three bowls. I'm sure they'll adjust.

I'm really feeling dragged down today... Just tired and want to sleep. Mel came in the house for a while this morning. He and LF were snoring away while I was on here earlier. I had  fried up some bacon with 3 eggs over easy for breakfast. So I cooked a dozen fried/scrambled and mixed 1/2 with the last of the turkey and steak scraps for their dinner tonight and gave the other 1/2 split between them topped with some shredded cheese and some milk. My dogs aren't spoiled...  nooooo not at all! He's back in the pasture now and LF is out back. He'll be inside again starting tomorrow into Sunday if the weather does as advertised. If it's not pouring, he stays on the back deck.


----------



## RollingAcres

What did you buy at Wally World? I know Just a gallon of milk and a bottle of creamer don't cost $50.

Yup, your dogs are spoiled! So are your goats.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

So is his girlfriend Miss @Rammy!


----------



## RollingAcres

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> So is his girlfriend Miss @Rammy!




She don't want him no more (because he called her old). Hahahaha


----------



## Rammy

Hey, the nut dont fall too far from the old tree.......


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> My "need" to purchase a gallon of milk and bottle of creamer turned into $50...  Why is it I can't leave wally world for less than $50?


Many times around here, I can buy milk as much as $1 cheaper at a convenience store as long as it is a clean and busy one, such as a Valero or Stripes type. 

And yall should know by now, that I make a habit of being observant in all things. So, speaking of Walmart, they are and have been, for about the last 6 months making a subtle but profound change and I don't think it is for the better as far as the consumer goes. Here's what I am seeing locally, at our old semi-super walmart and at the 2 nearby more modern Superstore:
1. They have greatly reduced the variety of food items across the gamut. 
2. They have all but quit carrying their own brand canned and packaged items..Great Value.
3. They have reduced the number of different "big bag' dry breakfast cereals they carry. There used to be about 1/2 aisle, 3 shelves high with these econo bags, and now, there is just one little area at the end of the breakfast cereal aisle.  They filled the now empty shelves with small boxes of higher priced/oz brand name cereal. 
4. I was in there just yesterday, and I noticed all their Smithfield hams were 'reduced' (for quick sale) and all their pre-packed pork (hams, boneless loins, ribs etc) are now Tyson. The boneless loins were labeled "half loin" but were probably 1/4 the size of the Smithfield they used to carry.
5. They made a major re-shuffling of where things are located..different aisles even. And, you can go in there one day and finally find a selected item, then go back a couple days later, and they are located elsewhere..they've bee 'reshuffled' again. ***
6. Lots of prepackaged frozen meat brands are no more. All Gordons frozen fish disappeared out of the frozen food cases  for several weeks but finally reappeared after a lot of complaints.  

*** This, is intentional, and done @ direction from Corporate. The reason they move things around so much and so often, is to make you "LOOK" for items. The more you wander about & look, the more apt you are to find something else you 'want-but-don't-need' and add that item to your cart. 

Overall, the quantities of each item they carry now very much appears to be reduced. They are running out of popular items. I've been in there several times over the holidays and seen empty shelves where very popular foodstuffs used to be..the spot is there...the label is on the edge of the shelf, but there just isn't any.
I try to go to H-E-B instead, but our local H-E-B is probably 20 years old and very small. (But, I've never seen them run out of canned corn or other popular items)


----------



## Mike CHS

We only buy toiletries and such at Walmart but even with minor purchases, we are seeing the same thing.  Kroger is getting busier all of the time so it's paying off for them.


----------



## RollingAcres

I haven't been to Wal-Mart in quite some time(at least 3 months) now


----------



## Latestarter

I've been noticing subtle changes at wally world for well over a year. Stuff being "out", empty shelves, etc. It varies over time what they are out of. For a while they were missing cheeses, another time was real deli meats. I still see plenty of the great value items throughout the various isles. You're right on the milk price being higher. That happened a couple months ago here. It jumped up from ~2 bucks to 3 bucks a gallon for the great value milk.


----------



## Latestarter

Finally sat down with some breakfast and my big mug of tea. What a morning... Went out and rounded up the babies. One of them (she IS silver with frosting and beautiful! ) was shivering a little so I carried her in my arms while the adult goats ate their pellets. That warmed her up fine. The little black one had gone under the shelter by the entrance but luckily had laid down next to one of the support cinder blocks right there, so I reached under and pulled her out. Put them both back inside against the back wall in a corner formed by the center partition and mom followed me in and went to be with them. Mom is getting a lopsided udder so I know at least one of them is feeding, but only from one side. The silver one is much larger, more mobile, and "stronger" than the black one, so I'm assuming it's eating. I helped the black one suckle several times so she should be eating as well. Will continue to monitor them of course.


Mini, there is a double cinder block step right under the door threshold. There's a gap between it and the shelter though and they'll need a few more days before they can clear it.


So after them I went to take care of the chickens. One of my RIRs was standing there with her whole back at the tail head eaten away.  I waited and saw one of the BO's go over for some fresh chicken meat so though I don't know if she started it, she sure contributed    Virtually no muscle left to hold her tail feather "bulb" up. I noticed another RIR with the start of the same thing. My Blukote spray can, though 3/4 full, won't spray   So that went in the trash and off I went to TSC to get some more. Also picked up some Iodine 10% solution from wallyworld as the old bottle was about empty after last nights use. Made it out the door with just that as a purchase, so I guess I CAN get out of there for less than 50 bucks. Also got Vetericyn spray, and a couple of vials of goat CD&T (10 shots/vial) while at TSC. Just went to check spelling on Vetericyn and found I'm disconnected from the internet...    It's just been that kinda morning... So will keep typing then cut/paste to word when done so I can cut/paste back here when I can post again. Both RIRs got treatment for their wounds and the badly wounded one is now separated in a large dog crate. I hope the blukote on the other will be enough to keep the BO from eating her back as well. I made sure the entire area was well coated.


Started sprinkling on my way home from the store. Can't check the radar as internet is down at the moment. But yeah, seems like it should move through rather quickly. I just hope it doesn't dump a lot of rain as I'm finally drying out here. I really don't want to be right back in the muck again so soon.

So restarted the computer and that fixed the internet problem. It seems every time windows 10 does an update or D/L's an update to install, it shuts down my internet connection.   I guess it's microsoft's way to force you to restart your computer so they can force/load the changes/updates. If they proceed with their next iteration which will be like the present office suite and you'll have to pay for it monthly like a service, this old boy's switching over to Linux.


----------



## Bruce

Congrats on the doelings!

Boy am I knocking on wood that I've never had a hen that attacked another, not even ones that had just died. The only attacker I had was Trouble and he only went after Zorra because he THOUGHT she once attacked him when in fact she was just flying out of the broody buster and landed near him. He was re-homed and apparently wasn't smart enough to stay with the other chickens, coon got him within 2 days.


----------



## Latestarter

Been sprinkling a little off and on all day, but nothing that's kept the goats indoors. Seems the stuff I felt first thing this morning developed well to the north of here and is up in and above Arkansas now. So now I wait the 4-5 hours for the trailing front to get here that's approaching west of DFW. Getting about time to go do chores again too.


----------



## skipper

The rain just hit us here in Middle Tennessee I didn’t even know it was going to be raining today and tomorrow


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Will you post another picture of your silver kid when you get a chance...please


----------



## CntryBoy777

Congrats on the doelings Joe!!....I guess ya are getting a jump on the goat math this season....


----------



## Baymule

Did you get the 8" rain gauge at the Martindale feed store?


----------



## Mike CHS

skipper said:


> The rain just hit us here in Middle Tennessee I didn’t even know it was going to be raining today and tomorrow



You are only 60 miles or so from us and we haven't gotten any rain at all.


----------



## Latestarter

Yes Bay, I did, but it wasn't 8" as I thought, it's actually 5 inches. But the tube is so large and long it's easy to see where I have it mounted to a T-post in the yard. I'm assuming that blue ring you see resting at the bottom floats. Should make it even easier to see from a distance. The whole tube lifts out of the bracket (bracket zip tied to the T post) and the cup on top pops right out so easy to empty. I really like it.

 They had more there if you're looking for one. Through the front door, turn left, in a box in front of the front window.

I'll try to get some kid pics tomorrow. I'll post them over on my kidding thread.


----------



## Baymule

I already have one that goes to 5 inches. It has overflowed on more than one occasion.


----------



## Bruce

skipper said:


> The rain just hit us here in Middle Tennessee I didn’t even know it was going to be raining today and tomorrow


Oh a new member in the herd!


----------



## Latestarter

Damn kids! Went out this morning and found the little black one in with the boys. She's TOO YOUNG to be starting THAT! Couldn't find the silver one so got down on hands and knees in the poo mud and sure enough, she's up under the shelter. So I held the little black one all through the adult's breakfast to warm her up and then used her to lead Blackie back to where the silver one was underneath. They talked but the kid didn't move. So here I'm thinking I have no idea how long the kid has been under there, she's laying on a concrete patio block leaning against a vertical support, which is going to suck the heat right out of her, and there's no way my fat butt is getting under there to get her. Maybe she's too weak already to come out by herself?

So off to home depot I go to buy a 10' length of 3/4 PVC, A 50' length of parachute cord, and a straight connector for the PVC pipe. I had to cut the 10' pipe in 1/2 to get it home in the truck, hence the connector. Figured I'd pass a loop down through the pipe, snake it under there and snag a body part to drag her out.

So I get back home, head down to the goat pen and what do I find? There's silver, out with Blackie near the fence line inside the pen, and now the other one is up under the shelter.   Well, good enough. Obviously they're trying to play goatie games with me. Nope, not playin'! I did see both kids drink from mom, so know that's covered at least. Came inside, stripped down all the muddy poo covered clothes and started a load of wash... And now here I am eating breakfast finally (three eggs over easy w/4 slices of bacon), with my standard mug of tea.

Was damp and foggy this morning doing chores, but when I got back from HD, the sun had come out and though windy, the sun is warm. I wonder what the folks at HD thought of my appearance (&/or odor)... all covered with muddy poo from holding the baby and crawling around in it. I didn't take time to clean up before I went.  Rained pretty steady last night/early this morning but we only got about 1/2", so I'm totally good with that!

The two RIRs with blukoted backs didn't have any further damage this morning.  the BO's have finished their velociraptor imitations. The one in the crate is scratching around, so good to see that. She still laid her egg yesterday as well. They really can be some pretty tough animals, even though they seem to die so easily...


----------



## Bruce

Those naughty little girls! Sounds like you need something to close off the bottom of the goat mansion.


----------



## Rammy

Yeah. Good idea. Maybe some cinderblocks or bigbrailroad ties. Or maybe they were just playing hide and seek.


----------



## Bruce

I was thinking field fencing. First thought of lattice but I bet the goats would have that chewed up before LS got out to feed them the next morning.


----------



## Rammy

I was going to suggest lattice, too, but also figured the'd just eat it. Something unedible would be the best option.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Lowes carries a plastic lattice...


----------



## Latestarter

It appears that mom is sending them under there. Evidently she wants them under there out of the wind where they can snuggle together while she's out grazing. I just checked on them and they're both under there together. They are still too small/unstable to get from ground to cinderblocks to goat mansion... Will be a few days before they'll be able to make that "leap". Luckily, as the weather would have it, we'll be seeing a warming trend over the next week or so with no rain indicated. I hope to catch them up before nightfall and put them both inside back in the corner. Hopefully mom can keep them there overnight. By this time next week, highs are supposed to be approaching 70° again. I'm seriously thinking about making a couple of kidding jugs for inside to trap the kids in there. Keep em there for a week or so till they're strong enough to get around as well as in and out. I'd really prefer not to mess with what mom's doing though unless they're in real danger or she's inept. She seems to be doing great by them.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Good job latestarter. .."mother knows best"


----------



## Rammy

Thought about doing a goat ramp?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

@Rammy, husband just built a small one today for other goat house, lol ....even put cross pieces of wood every 11" so their hoofs wouldn't  slide. Great minds think alike


----------



## Mike CHS

Our chickens have proved to be hardy but the ones we have lost were taken or killed by other critters.


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## Latestarter

just posted an update with pics to my kidding thread.


----------



## Bruce

You have a kidding thread?
And Rammy read my mind before I read her post about a goat ramp


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## Latestarter

@Bruce https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/latestarters-2019-kidding.38536/#post-572529


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## Latestarter

Lousy day weather wise today. gray and dreary. Damp and cold on top of it. Thought I felt freezing mist while doing chores this morning. Temp right now at 11:14 is only 36°f. So much for the warming trend we were supposed to have. Supposed to clear off later today for some sun. I don't know if it's gonna make it. Oh well... it's winter, right?


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Oh a new member in the herd!


I just noticed as well. Welcome @skipper!


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> @Bruce https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/latestarters-2019-kidding.38536/#post-572529


I can't even keep up with your journal how am I going to keep up with your kidding thread?


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## Latestarter

Skipper actually did a new member intro...


----------



## Baymule

It was gray and gloomy all day here too.


----------



## Latestarter

Just looked at the satellite image from ~7 minutes ago. The edge of this fricken cloud cover looks to be maybe 15-20 miles to the west of here. West of that is a huge area of clear sky in the shape/size of FL. The clouds can stay over night (keep it warmer) but sure hope they've moved on come morning. I desperately need to soak up some rays. The constant rain and moisture with gray cloudy weather is getting me depressed. Forecast for tomorrow calls for mostly cloudy however...  And though the next couple of days should be a little warmer, we've got some real cold (for us) coming next weekend. And it appears there's a huge low pressure system approaching the cost of central CA right now. Guess that will be our next real wet weather maker when it comes across. CA needs the moisture though, so I guess it's good from that viewpoint.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

We're expecting that cold snap too.  I'm ok with a couple days for it if it helps wipe out some garden bugs.  I'm not ok with being cold.  It seems the older I get the colder I get.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

RollingAcres said:


> I can't even keep up with your journal how am I going to keep up with your kidding thread?



You will if you want to see adorable baby goat pics!


----------



## greybeard

frustratedearthmother said:


> It seems the older I get the colder I get.


Me too...But not as cold as I'm eventually gonna get when I assume ambient temperature..


----------



## frustratedearthmother

greybeard said:


> Me too...But not as cold as I'm eventually gonna get when I assume ambient temperature..


True...


----------



## Wehner Homestead

greybeard said:


> Me too...But not as cold as I'm eventually gonna get when I assume ambient temperature..



Leave it to GB


----------



## RollingAcres

Wehner Homestead said:


> You will if you want to see adorable baby goat pics!


Tru dat.


----------



## greybeard

I'm a pragmatic person..


----------



## Baymule

I got to witness the rosy glow of SUNRISE!! The sun is shining and making the frost twinkle. Cold outside, but SUNSHINE!!


----------



## greybeard

Sat & Sunday are going to be chilly even here


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## RollingAcres

Yeah, that's cold for y'all. Stay warm!


----------



## Latestarter

Still a bit gray here... hazy cloud cover. Sun is shining through enough to make shadows, but it's far from overwhelming and nothing to think about getting a tan from. (Yes, I know you still get a sun burn regardless of cloud cover.) No frost here, didn't get quite cold enough last night due to the cloud cover staying over me here. Sitting right at ~40° and supposed to get to low 50s today. Made some french vanilla french toast for breakfast with 100% pure maple syrup. Added additional eggs to the "wash" and scramble them up for the dogs with their dinner. They'll be happy about that! Have my mug of tea, and it's about to be 11am. Need to figure out what I want for dinner so I can take it out... Anyway, off to live through another day! Hope y'all live through yours!


----------



## Baymule

The sun went away and it clouded up. But we went outside and did a burn pile.


----------



## Bruce

Wehner Homestead said:


> You will if you want to see adorable baby goat pics!


Yep you better those three littles sure are cute!


----------



## Latestarter

Same here Bay... sun was "kinda" out for about an hour then the clouds thickened back up and stayed that way... STILL that way. And looks like it's to continue...



So maybe some showers tomorrow night then sunny Thursday? Nahhhhh.... too good to be true! I think it should stay cloudy since the rain moves back in on Friday anyway...


 

Never did figure anything out for dinner so pulled out a frozen burger patty and bun and made me a cheeseburger. It was actually pretty good. Hit the spot. Still a bit hungry, but not sure what for.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Hope y'all live through yours!



Yep -- appears I did.   Chalk up another one!   

No dog here now but, gave the old fart cat the water from my can of tuna.  He was pleased.


----------



## Baymule

We had leftover chicken and bacon fried cream corn from last night.


----------



## Latestarter

I've never been a big fan of creamed corn... Might be because my dad tried to force us to eat corn chowder as kids. (edit to add, he wasn't the best cook... at all) Traumatized for life. Then we were introduced to hominy... Holy horrors! Big old swollen bleached out white eyeballs! Nastiness personified! (can't handle the smell either) And of course grits come from?  Why hominy of course!   Really like kernel corn and love a salty, buttery, ear of corn on the cob.   What can I say... I'm strange at best, weird at worst, and there's no explanation regardless.


----------



## Rammy

Poor guy. Its stewed prunes smell I cant stand. My grandfather had to eat them to help him do No.2. When we went to thier house if it was dinnertime, the smell of those things.....eewww!
On another note, we might get some snow and ice this weekend. Weather people said about 2" rain this weekend and possible accumulation. Yippee....
But I will be home so bring it on.


----------



## Baymule

Store bought cream corn from a can looks and smells like dog vomit-or worse. It tastes like a bowl of sugar with yellow stuff in it. 
I make my own cream corn-no way I'm eating that store bought canned crap. Gross.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> What can I say... I'm strange at best, weird at worst, and there's no explanation regardless.


But Rammy still loves you! Bahahahaa


----------



## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> Store bought cream corn from a can looks and smells like dog vomit-or worse. It tastes like a bowl of sugar with yellow stuff in it.


Unfortunately the only cream corn I've tried was from a can and I thought it was good. 

I made bacon wrapped chicken bites for dinner last night.


----------



## Bruce

Maybe you better get @Baymule's recipe for home made creamed corn. Might be like Log Cabin versus REAL maple syrup. The first was OK until I moved to Vermont and found out what maple syrup made from tree sap was like  Bubye Log Cabin! FOREVER!

I've only had canned cream corn once and wasn't impressed though I think about the only canned vegetable I could eat is plain corn. The rest are just  both texture and flavor.


----------



## RollingAcres

Maybe @Baymule would share her recipe? I'm sure it would like Log Cabin vs Real Maple syrup. I can't eat those Log cabin syrup anymore. We went out for breakfast last Sunday and I ordered French toasts. Log Cabin was the only choice for syrup. I used it, didn't really have a choice...next time I will leave it.
I use canned green beans for Green bean casserole. DH would only eat green bean casserole if it's canned green beans. We do use canned mushrooms a lot. I'll get canned artichoke hearts once in a while to add to salad but that's about the canned veggies we get. For corn, I'll get frozen corn kernels in the winter time. Summer is corn on the cob.


----------



## greybeard

Pure unadulterated, nothing added, nothing removed creamed corn is merely corn kernels pulled off the cob wherein the kernels are not whole and some of the kernel root is pulled with the kernel. 
I make and freeze a lot of it by scraping the cob with a special curved knife looking thing after cutting the kernels off. 
IF, the corn is overly mature when trying this, the creamed corn will have a relatively poor taste and a more starchy texture when eaten. 
Most store bought canned creamed corn has had something added to it, usually water, corn starch, salt, and sugar.   (Some, may or may not have preservatives and/artificial coloring)


----------



## Bruce

I do eat canned artichoke hearts. On pizza or in spinach artichoke dip.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Baymule said:


> Store bought cream corn from a can looks and smells like dog vomit-or worse. It tastes like a bowl of sugar with yellow stuff in it.
> I make my own cream corn-no way I'm eating that store bought canned crap. Gross.



You are so funny Bay, I make my own also from fresh corn


----------



## Baymule

I shuck the corn. I drop the tail gate on the truck, place a board on it and stack up the corn. With a meat cleaver, I chop both ends and rip off shucks and silks. I am fast. Shucks get swept into a waiting wagon or trash bag to be taken to livestock. 

I take the corn in the house, wash and scrub it, then blanch it. I cool it in cold water, then stack it up in a wash pan. I sharpen my paring knives and make several passes in the same spot on the cob. I twist the corn around until it is all cut off, then I scrape the cob to get the milk out. Bag it up and freeze it.

To make bacon fried cream corn, I first cook an iron skillet of bacon. Pour off some of the fat, then put the cream corn in the skillet while hot. Crumble the bacon over the top and bake in the oven until the edges of the corn around the skillet turn brown. Darn good stuff!


----------



## Latestarter

Was misting when I finished goat chores last night. Let Mel in the yard so he could get on the porch for cover. Left both dogs out last night as it wasn't cold at all. Was super happy to wake up this morning to sunshine peaking around the heavy cloud cover. Hey, at least it's not solid overcast, there's visible blue sky, sunlight, and it's relatively warm with a light breeze. Started out the day by holding baby goats while standing in the sun, what could be better? Both mommas are doing a fine job. Babies are doing great. The little buckling is something else again... Talk about an attention hog. He cries any time momma is out of sight and of course she runs right back to calm him. I had to carry him out to the pasture with me so she could get to eat some hay.  She's bagged up fairly decent now so I know he's getting plenty of milk.

Was digging in my freezer yesterday and found some really beautiful thick sliced pork chops that I'd bought. Problem is they sure look great but were tough as shoe leather. Took 2 out and threw them in the crock pot with BBQ sauce on low. Hopefully they'll fall apart by this afternoon.

Was going to shovel out the goat mansion today but am putting it off till tomorrow. Rain supposed to be moving in tomorrow afternoon followed by much lower temps. I want to get the pee soaked shavings & poop removed and get a good bed of fresh shavings down for the kids to snuggle into to keep warm at night. Surprisingly, the moms haven't been peeing inside the kid enclosures... they've been stepping outside them to go. Wish I could get ALL of them to step outside the mansion to pee.  The pellets are dry and can be swept, so no problem.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Even though it probably feels really short to ya, glad ya had a break in the weather to enjoy and get a few things accomplished....I don't really envy ya for the cold and work, but I sure do envy having the new little ones to watch, keep up with, and interact with.........shoot!!....I just miss having some animals to dicker with.......when we get this property we will have to do some clean-up and see what we can do....I know ya are having as much Fun as the body allows ya to have....


----------



## Mike CHS

I don't bother to watch the weather much anymore.  I just note what the Texans are getting and assume we get the same tomorrow at least as long as there isn't a lot of north winds.


----------



## Latestarter

Well, couldn't sit indoors all day today and decided since I'm outside anyway I ought to do something productive... Didn't like the look of the cloud cover as it's thickening up pretty well. Even though rain isn't supposed to start till tomorrow afternoon. Started out by bringing the goats a big old bowl of froot loops and honey nut cheerios mixed. Then got to work forking out the foot deep layer of pee/poop/rain laden hay waste from under and around the hay feeder in the boy's pen. Man did that stink! Glad it's done. Need to refill their feeder tonight as they've emptied it. Gets empty a lot faster when throwing in broken up flakes as opposed to a whole bale.   Two big full wheel barrows of nastiness hauled off to the compost area. Heavy and difficult to roll on the still squishy ground.

Then I figured I might as well go ahead and do the goats mansion as well... another 2 full wheel barrows of soggy/poopy wood chips. Between the 2 I imagine there's gonna be some very happy worms under there and "down stream" when it rains. Might go get 1 more bag of chips to add to the babies enclosures. Want to make sure it's deep enough that they can settle down into it when the cold gets here. It's comin'.  But not here yet. today was around 63° Tomorrow is supposed to be even warmer... around 66°.

Ripped the loin part off the pork chops in the crock pot after cooking for like 6 hours and it was barely edible/chewable. The chops are still hard as a rock. Turned the crock pot to high, added some orange juice (citric acid), and will try them again before bed. Hate when I end up with poor quality meat. And these were purchased at a HEB too! Normally their meat is the best.

Too many alerts to go through right now as it's just about time to go do animal chores. Have to say, a nice hot shower is gonna feel awfully nice tonight!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Ripped the loin part off the pork chops in the crock pot after cooking for like 6 hours and it was barely edible/chewable. The chops are still hard as a rock. Turned the crock pot to high, added some orange juice (citric acid), and will try them again before bed. Hate when I end up with poor quality meat. And these were purchased at a HEB too! Normally their meat is the best.


Any chance they were in the freezer long enough to get freezer burn?


----------



## Latestarter

No freezer burn. They were like this when I bought them as well. That's why I did a crock pot with them. Had hoped that would make some difference. That's also why they were buried at the bottom of the freezer... Eating them now. I was able to pull them apart and they are very "grainy"... like a bunch of toothpicks on the plate. Chew up like toothpicks as well... Very dry.


----------



## Rammy

You think because they were buried in the feezer it damaged the meat?


----------



## Baymule

So...….are you going to plant a garden to take advantage of all that compost?


----------



## Rammy

Good idea. Good healthy food and excersize.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> was able to pull them apart and they are very "grainy"... like a bunch of toothpicks on the plate. Chew up like toothpicks as well... Very dry.


That is what chickens are for! They will chow that down and be happy about it.


----------



## Latestarter

I have dogs that will get it before the chickens do... The chickens are already eating each other, I'm not about to introduce them to pork as well. No Rammy, the meat has been like this since I bought it. It looked so good, but you don't eat looks. They migrated to the bottom of the freezer because they are terrible/lousy. I'd like to do a garden this year... nothing major, just a small one to grow the few things that I'll eat.


----------



## Rammy

You could raise your own pig for the freezer, just make sure to clip its wings first. Only you would get a pig that can fly!


----------



## Latestarter

Have to thank @Devonviolet & her DH for their generosity. Took a drive over there today and borrowed their disbudding box and burner. The nubs on the new little boy are already becoming prominent. I expect I'll get him done this weekend. The 2 little girls will need to be done but they're barely there yet. Probably get them later next week. Since I was out that way, I swung into Jersey Girl dairy farm and got me a couple gallons of raw milk. YUM!  When I got home I took cookies out for the dogs. Mel immediately started sniffing me all over... He could smell Deo and Violet all over me   Told him he better forget smelling me and eat his cookie before the goats got it.  Solid overcast now with increasing dampness.  Here's what we are forecast for from https://forecast.weather.gov/:

*This Afternoon*
A 20 percent chance of showers. Cloudy, with a high near 65. South wind around 15 mph.
*Tonight*
Showers likely and possibly a thunderstorm before midnight, then a chance of showers and thunderstorms between midnight and 3am, then a chance of rain after 3am. Cloudy, with a low around 39. South wind 15 to 20 mph becoming northwest after midnight. Winds could gust as high as 30 mph. Chance of precipitation is 60%.
*Saturday*
A 20 percent chance of rain before noon. Cloudy, then gradually becoming mostly sunny, with a temperature falling to around 35 by 10am. Northwest wind around 20 mph, with gusts as high as 35 mph.
*Saturday Night*
Mostly clear, with a low around 26. Northwest wind 15 to 20 mph decreasing to 5 to 10 mph after midnight.​


----------



## Baymule

The weather forecasters have been saying all week that there would be a high of 70* today...….yeah, right.


----------



## Bruce

That is about 70° higher than it will be here the next 3 days.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Got close to 80 here today....


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Ok    . ... so let's  both of us just rub it in that it was a beautiful  sunny 80 degree day here... (we will be complaing soon enough with humidity and heat )


----------



## CntryBoy777

Humidity has a different definition....back where we come from and will take Florida's definition of it over Mississippi's.....there are 2 main differences....soil content and sea-breezes versus no wind at all.....the sand doesn't hold the moisture that the heavy clay does and until it gets like concrete ya can sweat just standing still....it puts a capital "O" in the word "Oppressive"....plus it rarely gets to triple digits here, but come July and August, Mississippi will be there or really close most everyday....especially the realfeel temps....


----------



## Latestarter

Well, though they got along for 2 days, the one RIR ate the back end of the other today. Put it down and now the BOs are back in with the one remaining (blukoted and healing) RIR. All things being equal, I expect tomorrow I'll need to put down the last RIR and will be left with 2 BOs for eggs. They don't eat each other for some reason...


Spoiler: Disturbing pics: blood, damaged flesh


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bad chickens ..... no fighting allowed with latestarters chicks !


----------



## Baymule

That's what my Delawares did. I hated those chickens. RIR's are known for being mean.


----------



## Mike CHS

I think that's why the 4H here uses Barred Rocks exclusively.  Every one we have is really docile and we will be getting a rooster.


----------



## farmerjan

They make a little thing that you put in the chickens nostrils.  The only way I can describe it is it looks like tiny "granny glasses" but it  is red plastic.  It makes everything look red to the chickens, and it distorts their sight/perception.. and they stop picking.  I think it is called an "anti-picking beak guard"  maybe.... Anyway, they do work and you can leave them in their nostrils. It doesn't affect their eating, but can't see "up close and personal"  nearly as well.  Don't have any idea if TSC carries them, but you ought to be able to get them off amazon, or e-bay or a chicken supply place.  
I have seen some Barred Rocks that were very canabalistic in the past,  and have had some very easy going Delawares... so it is partially in the strain that you get.  I have New Hampshires, and have never had a problem with them yet and my big Black Langshans are not pickers either.  Have had it in some of the Sex-link layers in the past.


----------



## Latestarter

The New Hampshires I owned in Colorado were the best birds ever. I bought these cause I didn't want to wait 6 months for grow out and eggs. The BO's I owned before were very placid, easy going, and friendly. No so these two.


----------



## farmerjan

Seems like the BO 's need to go not the RIR's.


----------



## Rammy

Ive had both breeds and would get the RIR over the BOs. Every BO rooster I got was meaner than anything. I accidently got a RIR rooster one time when I got some chicks from a local feedstore. At two months that liitle fart was biting me if I picked him up or would fly at me off the roost pole when I went in the coop. My dog, Barney, got to play with him.
The only rooster Ive had so far that isnt an idiot is my SLW. Hes a good boy. I can even do his spurs without him fussing.
As far as the RIR hens or BO hens, out of the two breeds, the RIR were the best layers. Those BOs just ate and pooped alot. Not much for consistent egg layers.
Right now I have a mix of Australorps, Comets, BR, Americaunas, Colombian Wyandottes,  Lakenvelders, and one Russian Orlof. I had two but the idiot went swimming in the cattle trough one day.


----------



## Latestarter

Problem is Jan, the RIR's are now flesh eating as well along with the BOs. The BO's are NOT eating each other, only the RIRs... The RIR's were not eating the BOs either. I think I just lucked into some seriously stupid RIRs. They would just stand there and squeek with each bite being taken.. Chances are even on that the whole lot of them are gonna be gone here shortly and I'll start again down the road.

Had T-storms rush through starting right about 12:30 this morning. Had a little more shower activity since then but nothing substantial. Haven't done a close look but from inside it doesn't appear to even register on the rain gauge. Then around 4ish the wind really kicked it into gear. Forecast high today is 40, right now at 39 with wind chill of 28. Even though not raining, the goats haven't even stuck their heads out of the shelter yet. It is very heavy overcast though. I haven't gone down to feed them yet either. Will head out for that shortly.


----------



## Baymule

LS, get some Pick No More, it works. You can probably find it at the feed store or Atwoods.

https://www.amazon.com/Rooster-Boos...8&qid=1547907668&sr=8-2&keywords=pick-no-more

The wind is BLOWING! It is making the screen doors on the porch slam.


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> No freezer burn. They were like this when I bought them as well. That's why I did a crock pot with them. Had hoped that would make some difference. That's also why they were buried at the bottom of the freezer... Eating them now. I was able to pull them apart and they are very "grainy"... like a bunch of toothpicks on the plate. Chew up like toothpicks as well... Very dry.


Nothing worst than disappointing food....


----------



## Latestarter

Making up for it right now RA... Took out a ~20 oz T bone (with a huge piece of loin) a few days ago. Seasoned it up yesterday and left it in the fridge. Just finished pan frying it for breakfast.   Still and always prefer rib eyes but these were on sale when I bought them. They're "OK"... but nothing special.

Finished feeding the animals. Gave the goats a bit extra pellets and hay. Figure with the wind and cold, they can use a few extra calories. The BO's have indeed already recommenced eating the last remaining RIR. One hand is now almost totally covered in Blukote.  I'll cull her later this afternoon.


----------



## greybeard

the same norther blew in here for real a few hours ago. probably 3/4" rain just before that. 
At 2am, the temp here was 71. It's now 46.


----------



## Rammy

LS, do the chickens have alot of room to run around in? Sometimes you can get cannabalism in chickens if they are in a small space and dont have anything else to keep thier attention like food, grass, bugs.   I had that happen when I first got chickens. Made them a huge fenced in area and had no more problems.


----------



## Latestarter

While coop recommendations for large fowl are min 4 square feet per bird, these 5 had near 100 square feet to live in. 

OH, forgot to mention, this morning while I was out watching the goats eat, Elf found and dug out a mole for me!  Saw him playing "catch" with something small, gray, and furry. Hoped it wasn't a baby rabbit. After he'd chomped it, played toss with it, pawed at it, etc... enough to kill it, he lost interest and walked away from it. When I tried to get it from him while still alive, he was having none of that. He picked it up and carried it around staying out of my reach with it. I'm fine with him killing it. I hope he can find and dig out ALL of them and kill them!

Temp instead of going up or staying steady has already started going down. Was 39 earlier, now 35. Looks like first real appearance of winter.


----------



## Bruce

Seems it is time to get some chicks from Ideal since they are pretty local. Get them now and they should be laying by July.



Latestarter said:


> and will be left with 2 BOs for eggs. They don't eat each other for some reason...


They are racist!



CntryBoy777 said:


> Got close to 80 here today....


Pushing the edge of "tolerable"!


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah Bruce, I don't see chicks in my future right now. The damn BOs I have would probably gobble them right up. The final RIR is gone... both BOs gave me an egg this afternoon. Guess the added meat in their diet helped them.

I know you folks to the north and east have it much worse, but it's damned cold and raw here. Was supposed to get to 40 today with clearing and diminishing winds. None of that happened. Now it's down to 32, still dropping. The wind is STILL whipping here, and though it appears to be clearing to the west it's still solid overcast here. Of course with the temp dropping, I'd prefer it to stay cloudy as that will help blanket in the "warmth" vice letting the temp drop even further. Calling for 24° tonight.



 <--- to all of us dealing with it.


----------



## Mike CHS

They are saying around 27 in the morning for us.  Our rain gauge showed 3 1/2" over the last 2 days.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> The wind is STILL whipping here, and though it appears to be clearing to the west it's still solid overcast here.


Clear here, and the wind has abated 'somewhat'. Still dang cold tho because of the wind. Cows are all already hunkered down in the woods on my sister's place adjacent to mine.

I am glad the wet part of the system has already moved off to the east and out of Texas. Wife and I are leaving here sometime between 2am and daylight to spend a day or 2 at her mother's just North of Paris Tx. Going to be colder there than here but now we won't have to worry about icy roads.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Mike CHS said:


> They are saying around 27 in the morning for us. Our rain gauge showed 3 1/2" over the last 2 days.


Yikes!  Too much cold and too much wet...


----------



## Latestarter

Hope ya have a safe trip/visit GB. Yup, it's a bit chilly here. Clouds moved out overnight and the just past full moon lit everything up real nice so it was easy to see the hard frost on everything. Even though it was cold out this morning (still is), the sun made it feel warmer, couldn't see my breath, and the waterers weren't frozen bricks. Supposed to get to mid 40s today so will go refresh all waterers for the coming cold days...

Found all 3 kids sleeping in a pile in one enclosure this morning. The boy is already big and strong enough to jump over the 20" tall barrier wall. That's good as it means he's almost ready to be set free with his momma. He should be able to get in and out of the mansion. Noticed this morning that Beauty is bagging up and waddling. Probably a single, could be any time. Tomorrow would be good as the next 2 nights are supposed to be above freezing. She hasn't started acting different yet and the main indicators aren't there.

Mel has a case of the crusties... This past summer/fall he developed an irritated area on his back right above his tail and above his hip bones. Got that taken care of to some degree but it never 100% cleared up. He now has it on the top of his head and some spots of it on his face. It's not a single sore, but a "patch" of crusted, weeping sores, almost like mange but not all over. Of course he gets dirt in it and it forms scabby areas with weeping through and around. I've used mane & tail and a sulfur based oil on the tail area and the last of the sulfur and more main and tail on his head. He hates when I apply stuff to him. Gotta get it figured out...


----------



## Rammy

Its a hotspot. Shave the area if you can and either get some Gentocin from the vet or Neopredef.
My beagle Barney got a hotspot around his collar area once and I had to call 5 different vets to find one who would sell it to me without an office visit. Not sure its still called Gentocin, but you can try.
Important thing is to allow the skin to breath and do NOT use neosporin or something similar. It needs to dry up. Keeping it moist just makes it worse. Dogs with coats like his tend to have that problem. Hope you can keep it at Bay. Ive seen dogs with thier entire body almost covered in a bad hotspot rash. Poor baby.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’d like to second neopredef. It is about $22 for the little bottle here but goes a long way and works amazingly well!


----------



## Rammy

Yeah. Neopredef is great. Not only is it good for hotspots, but  I use it on dogs that get razorburned some cause they have sensitive skin. You dont need to use much, thats for sure.


----------



## Latestarter

You guys keep recommending prescription drugs... Really trying to stay OTC...


----------



## Rammy

Neopredef isnt prescription where Im at.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yep - prescription.  Must be a Texas thing.


----------



## Baymule

It was sunny and beautiful today! Cold, but SUNSHINE! We shoveled a load of sheep poop into the Kawasaki mule and tossed it on the garden. Then we shoveled two loads on horse manure out of the barn and made a pile close to the garden for some sweet potato bins I want to make. Backing up to unload the second load, the 2WD driveshaft broke. Both u-joints snapped off and a yoke broke. It is now loaded on the flatbed and strapped down.


----------



## farmerjan

@Latestarter ,  Maybe if you are nice to @Rammy, she can help you get some.


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> It was sunny and beautiful today! Cold, but SUNSHINE! We shoveled a load of sheep poop into the Kawasaki mule and tossed it on the garden. Then we shoveled two loads on horse manure out of the barn and made a pile close to the garden for some sweet potato bins I want to make. Backing up to unload the second load, the 2WD driveshaft broke. Both u-joints snapped off and a yoke broke. It is now loaded on the flatbed and strapped down.


 DA@#N  that sure wasn't in the plans!!!!!!!


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> DA@#N  that sure wasn't in the plans!!!!!!!


Nope, it sure wasn't. Poor DH didn't even know what it was......


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Ugh...that sure puts a crimp in the work plans...


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Neopredef is prescription here too


----------



## Baymule

So Rammy will be the drug distributer?


----------



## Rammy

No. Its called, get some saying I need it and then mailing it to LS.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all! I'll give you a ring later today or this evening Rammy (if that's OK with you?) so we can discuss the terms of this exchange  Maybe you can get it because of what you do and where you do it?  I checked again, and it says clearly RX... (here).

Even though the sun is shining and the sky is covered in light cloud, it's brisk outside. Went to bed ~3am and did NOT want to climb out of my warm comfy bed this morning. Knew I had to as I was expecting a new herd addition.   Sure enough, a new (not so) little girl arrived some time late last night/early this morning. 

Watched the 2 NFL championship games yesterday. Both were very good, close, well played games. Both ended up tied at the end of regulation and had to be decided in overtime. Both of the number two seeded teams beat their number one seeded opponent (at the opponents home field!). My favorite team was one of the winners and I admit freely that I am spoiled. This will be the 4th Super Bowl appearance of the Patriots in a 5 year period. They won 2 of the last 3. While non Pats fans are tired of seeing us there and want us to lose (haters!), I think about what that organization has done despite all the rules and regulations and road blocks set up specifically to prevent sustained success from happening. It's astounding.  The 2 primary ingredients of that success can't last forever so I know it will all end here in the not too distant future.  Then I'll lament, like the fans of most other teams, that my team can't get to the "dance".


----------



## RollingAcres

Baymule said:


> So Rammy will be the drug distributer?






Latestarter said:


> so we can discuss the terms of this exchange  Maybe you can get it because of what you do and where you do it?


Really sounds like some drug deals going on...


----------



## Rammy

Wondering what the "terms" will be......muhahaha.....


----------



## animalmom

What?  One short sentence on a new baby and then one huge paragraph on football.  Where's the cotton picking pictures?

Inquiring minds want to know!!!!  please and thank you


----------



## RollingAcres

animalmom said:


> What?  One short sentence on a new baby and then one huge paragraph on football.  Where's the cotton picking pictures?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know!!!!  please and thank you


He posted a pic of the new baby in his kidding thread: https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/latestarters-2019-kidding.38536/page-12#post-590688


----------



## Mike CHS

animalmom said:


> What?  One short sentence on a new baby and then one huge paragraph on football.  Where's the cotton picking pictures?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know!!!!  please and thank you




I had to go back and read his post about the games and confirmed he didn't even mention about the refs non Pass Interference call that gave the game to the Pats.


----------



## RollingAcres

Mike CHS said:


> I had to go back and read his post about the games and confirmed he didn't even mention about the refs non Pass Interference call that gave the game to the Pats.


Oh no you didn't ! Those are fighting words with LS!


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Backing up to unload the second load, the 2WD driveshaft broke. Both u-joints snapped off and a yoke broke. It is now loaded on the flatbed and strapped down.


No liking that!!! Now you have to get it towed and repaired? I wouldn't know where to start with something like that.


----------



## Bruce

Another "tarnished" win!


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Hope ya have a safe trip/visit GB. Yup, it's a bit chilly here


We made it ok..Not a bad drive at all. Less windy than it was at home, and temps were above freezing..they had a light dusting of snow or sleet the day before, but everything was  cleared up before we passed thru Tyler.
Sure saw lots of cotton and a few fields of beans rotting in the fields north of  Lindale and especially around Tira. Also saw lots of hay for sale tho.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Both u-joints snapped off and a yoke broke. It is now loaded on the flatbed and strapped down.


I just fixed the same thing for a neighbor of mine a few weeks ago. Not a bad job at all if you've had much mechanic experience, and understand how those joints go together. IMO tho, the ones that use CV joints are a lot easier to work on.....a lot messier tho, with all that black sticky lubricant.


----------



## greybeard

Really hated to see Mahomes' year come to an end, but the QB stats tell the story.
PASSING
N.E.
T. Brady...348 YDS, 1 TD, 2 INTS
Rams
P. Mahomes..295 YDS, 3 TDS
RUSHING
N.E.
S. Michel 29 ATT, 113 YDS, 2 TDS
Rams
Da. Williams10 ATT, 30 YDS, 1 TD
Live by the pass and die by the pass...
NE is just a better balanced team and doesn't reply solely on Brady to win the big game. Mahomes has carried the Rams all year. 


The Non-call & Rams loss.... Hey, it builds character!!

(I had picked the Saints to win too)
(But, had it happened in the New England game, we can all rest assured Goodell would reverse the outcome in a heartbeat, as much as he hated having to give NE and Brady the trophy the last time they won the superbowl)

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...-saints-outcome-but-would-he-actually-use-it/


----------



## Bruce

1 TD and 2 interceptions doesn't sound like a very good stat. I guess he must have gotten them close enough for the ball carriers to pull his fat out of the fire.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> 1 TD and 2 interceptions doesn't sound like a very good stat. I guess he must have gotten them close enough for the ball carriers to pull his fat out of the fire.


More than good enough.. to win, but the stats I was referring to were those that show NE and it's QB spreads it's offense around while the Rams relied too much on P. Mahomes.
Watching Brady driving NE down the field in OT it was pretty clear to me who the better QB was/is.

Superbowl may be a complete reversal, but the same QB appearing in 9 super bowls doesn't happen by accident.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> Superbowl may be a complete reversal, but the same QB appearing in 9 super bowls doesn't happen by accident.


That would be true!


----------



## Latestarter

Mike CHS said:


> he didn't even mention about the refs non Pass Interference call that gave the game to the Pats.



Sorry Mike, that was actually a non-call (missed) PI committed by the Rams against the Saints that cost the Saints the game. Can't lay that on the Pats...



Bruce said:


> Another "tarnished" win!



Gosh... I wasn't aware that there was EVER a tarnished win? Of course there are the fabricated tales of the haters... And of course the fact that the commish has numerous vendettas against them. And none of the accused incidents were during a super bowl (of which they've played in 8 in the Brady era, with 5 wins and the losses were far from blow outs).  And it seems that "everybody does it" (cheats) which you can find out about here: http://yourteamcheats.com/



Bruce said:


> 1 TD and 2 interceptions doesn't sound like a very good stat. I guess he must have gotten them close enough for the ball carriers to pull his fat out of the fire.



Well Bruce, they used the type of offense that was most difficult for the Chiefs to defend... There are only 2 to choose from... passing and running, the latter of which was used extensively in this game. However, that being said, there were 3 very nice passes in OT that got them down near the goal, line to run it in. So I guess every team uses the run game to "pull their fat out of the fire"... it's obvious their tactic worked... they won the game...    Oh, and I believe both interceptions were tipped balls... so not totally Brady's fault.



greybeard said:


> NE and it's QB spreads it's offense around while the Rams relied too much on P. Mahomes.


That would be the Chiefs, not Rams... And Mahomes is an unreal talent, who will dominate the football scene for many years to come. Taken out of context and only looking at this one game, Brady "looks" better stats wise, but if you take the entire season into account, Mahomes' stats blow Brady's away. He broke numerous records and IMHO, will be the "next G.O.A.T."  years from now when he retires, unless he gets injured and forced out of the game prematurely. Some of the throws he makes are ridiculous.  He's a joy to watch play, except when he's playing against my team. He's really amazing.

Edit to add, both of these games, the opponents were very evenly matched. Evidenced by both ending tied and requiring overtime to decide. Since it's sudden death, the winner of the coin toss is often the winner of the game. That was the case in New Engkland's game, The opposite result in the Rams/Saints game. A play or two done differently in either game and the results would have been reversed.


----------



## Mike CHS

At the least we had a month of very good football.  I always enjoyed watching Brady play and especial when he played against Peyton Manning since I had been a fan for a long time.  They both made the other look even better than usual.  Mahomes is going to be in a league of his own as long as he doesn't get hurt and gets some more play under his belt.


----------



## Rammy

www.amazon.com/Soothing-Dog-Treatment-Allergies-Professional/dp/B01FDZUKFG/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?hvadid=73392558627328&hvbmt=be&hvdev=m&hvqmt=e&ie=UTF8&keywords=gentocin+topical+spray&qid=1548122599&sr=8-6&tag=msnsmartus-20

Typed in gentocin topical spray and amazon came up. Found this. Maybe this will help Mel?


----------



## Rammy

://www.chewy.com/gentamicin-betamethasone-generic/dp/173545

Found this on Chewy.com.

https://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/genone-topical-spray-for-dogs-rx

And this.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks so much for your help Rammy. I appreciate it!  The Gentamicin / Betamethasone  requires a perscription. I'll stop by the vet's tomorrow and see what they can do to help.


----------



## Rammy

I found out that Gentocin is no longer made. Its Betegen now. Similar ingredients, though.  I just typed in gentocin topical spray and found all that. I will still ask my vets tomorrow if there is anything else you may be able to get OTC.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> That would be the Chiefs, not Rams...


Ahh, right you are.


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> At the least we had a month of very good football.  I always enjoyed watching Brady play and especial when he played against Peyton Manning since I had been a fan for a long time.  They both made the other look even better than usual.  Mahomes is going to be in a league of his own as long as he doesn't get hurt and gets some more play under his belt.


Mahomes is the biggest best (football) thing to come out of Tyler Tx since Earl Campbell. Wife and I are in Tyler tonight, and everyone in the Walkons sports bar/restaurant we ate in earlier were still in shock. 
Mahomes will do fine anywhere except playing for Bill O'Brien in Houston.......where promising quarterbacks go to languish and then disappear from sight...


----------



## Latestarter

Just got up to hit the sack and saw movement on the back deck... Mel was up on the deck (again... 2nd time) and no idea how he's been getting there. His eyes are swollen and the hot spots are spreading. Heading to vet tomorrow to try and get something to clear him up. Kinda worried about baby goats and owls...  80% chance of rain tomorrow going into evening. No indication at all on radar. <sigh>


----------



## Rammy

Hope Mel is going to be ok.


----------



## Latestarter

Mel spent the night in the back yard laying out behind the back side of the house. He could see/hear/smell everything going on in the goat pen and I'm sure he could have gotten down there had he needed to. He's really feeling miserable. His eyes are swollen almost shut as the hot spot on top his head has spread down with his scratching and head shaking... I had him come in the house so I could take a closer look and it seems it is healing a little with the topical sprays I've been using, but the itching is still there. I think he might have bruised his one eye getting through/over the fence last night as well. Anyway, I gave him a benedryl mixed with some raw milk and shredded mozzarella cheese. He's calmed down now, less shaking his head and scratching and he's back laying on the back deck. He did come join me with the goats for morning chores. Hopping the swelling will ease along with less itching. Gonna head to the vet here shortly to see about some prescription hot spot meds.

Yesterday and today I've brought pellet feed into the shelter for Beauty. She doesn't seem to want to come out and leave her baby. Tried to carry the baby outside and lead her out for some hay but when I pick the baby up, beauty doesn't recognize that I have her and freaks out crying and looking for her little one. Hopefully she'll get over that soon. She needs to eat.

While my hands and wrists have been pain free of late, the issue is coming back and I'm doing everything I can to try and ward it off. Sucks when you can't even tear the tops off three splenda packets for your tea. Hands won't close completely, no strength in hands/fingers, hurts to bend or turn wrists in any direction. Same issue with ankles and knees is tickling also. Gonna be an interesting next couple of weeks...


----------



## Mike CHS

I really feel for Mel and you.


----------



## Rammy

Just checked with my vets here and they said you could try a mild antibacterial soap to wash those areas. Just make sure to keep it out of his eyes. Also, that you could probably find a hotspot spray or topical with cortisone<sp> in it but it probably wont have an antiobiotic in it like the Benegen or Neopredef does. Mostly its important to keep the area clean and shave it if possible and let it heal. I would ask your vet if you can give him something other than Benedryl.

P.S. You can get the Equate version of Benadryl at Wallyworld. Same stuff, just cheaper. Its usually says allergy pill or something like that on it. I got that for my dogs and worked just as well.


----------



## RollingAcres

Poor Mel. I hope it heals quickly for him. I'm sorry your pain issue has returned. Feel better.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter, sir,

You need to stop staying out so late at night, chasing young things.  That sort of life will catch up to you.  Instead, why don't you recognize that you and Miss @Rammy were meant for one another? 

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## RollingAcres

Bahahahaha 
Chasing young things, that explained his pain issues.


----------



## greybeard

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Mr. @Latestarter, sir,
> 
> You need to stop staying out so late at night, chasing young things.  That sort of life will catch up to you.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


What???....and give up that unalienable right to life, liberty and the happiness of pursuit?


----------



## Mike CHS

I don't know about @Latestarter  but even when I was single I never chased any young things for fear I might catch one of them.


----------



## Rammy

Yeah, considering his bad knees, I dont think he can chase anything for long. Poor guy.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure hope ya and Mel can get some relief Joe!!....the weather this time of the year isn't very kind or forgiving.......might help Mel a bit to take some scissors and cut the fur in those spots so more of the medication can penetrate that thick undercoat.....when your hands will allow ya to....


----------



## Bruce

Sure does sound like it is time for the vet to look at Mel. Poor dog.


----------



## goatgurl

sure hope mel gets better soon.  hot spots are really miserable for a dog. 
 I also hope that your joints don't go into a full blown attack.  I have noticed over time that there are certain things that trigger my hands and back to get worse.  one of them is sugar and another is foods with nitrates in them.  don't know why, just know they do so I try to avoid them as much as I can but offer me some chocolate or bacon and i'll be right there.  I know, i'm bad but who cares.


----------



## Baymule

Rammy said:


> Wondering what the "terms" will be......muhahaha.....


Maybe putting the "engagement" back on?


----------



## Rammy

No chance. Haha!


----------



## Baymule

My husbands hands swelled, hurt and he couldn't close them into a fist when we first married. I asked him to get me a bottle of gin, he thought I'd lost my mind, cause I am not much of a drinker. I sure wouldn't drink gin either.  I had to remind him a few times, but he finally showed up with a bottle of gin. I got out a box of raisins, filled a pint jar half full and covered them with gin. I put the top on and pushed the jar to the back of the kitchen counter. He asked what that was for. I guess he expected me to mix up some exotic drink and sip it while we watched TV. 

I told him to let them soak for 3 days, then eat a spoonful every morning. Haha, when he took that first spoonful I could hear him yell clear to the back of the house. I kinda didn't warn him that it would taste nasty. He complained with a lot of cuss words, accusing me of trying to kill him, but I persuaded him to stay on the program. In 3 days his hands were pain free and he could make a fist. He stayed on them for awhile. In the meantime, I cleaned up his diet, made him eat right and that took care of a lot of the inflammation. 

So, go get you some raisins and a bottle of gin. It is a pain killer, it reduces inflammation and if you eat enough of the gin soaked raisins, you might still hurt, but you won't care.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I have heard of the rasins and gin also..


----------



## Bruce

goatgurl said:


> but offer me some chocolate or bacon and i'll be right there. I know, i'm bad but who cares.


Get "uncured" bacon. To my surprise it is cured exactly the same as "cured" bacon but they use regular salt but no "pink salt", it is the source of the nitrates. Of course by NOT adding in that stuff, they charge more per pound. I guess it is the "small batch" thing. The only thing the nitrates do for the meat is keep the color. BUT any bacon I've seen is vacuum packed so no air gets to it to change the color anyway.


----------



## goatgurl

me too B&B.  tried it and just couldn't stand the taste so don't know if it will work.  why don't you try it LS and let me know what ya think.


----------



## Baymule

goatgurl said:


> me too B&B.  tried it and just couldn't stand the taste so don't know if it will work.  why don't you try it LS and let me know what ya think.


When I "make" bacon, I don't use the pink salt. I brine it in the refrigerator in regular salt water, then smoke low and slow on the BBQ pit. Darn good stuff.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Get "uncured" bacon. To my surprise it is cured exactly the same as "cured" bacon but they use regular salt but no "pink salt", it is the source of the nitrates. Of course by NOT adding in that stuff, they charge more per pound. I guess it is the "small batch" thing. The only thing the nitrates do for the meat is keep the color. BUT any bacon I've seen is vacuum packed so no air gets to it to change the color anyway.


Not always. Many bacon makers  use natural sources such as celery juice to do the curing.
and, with the exception mentioned above, nitrates are forbidden to be used in the curing of US made bacon..
Nitrites are used. USDA/FSIS is very clear about this, but many news and internet articles freely substitute the word 'nitrate' for 'nitrite' .

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/porta...at-preparation/bacon-and-food-safety/ct_index


----------



## Latestarter

There is so much misinformation, misconception and down right deception by one side trying to "beat the other side" out there that discovering the truth of ANYTHING is becoming damned near impossible. Kind of like what our laws have become... find a law that says one thing and if you look hard enough, you'll find another that contradicts the first. And there are so many laws that one can be found to make basically anything that you do punishable under some pretext or another. It's no wonder that many of us are becoming more and more withdrawn from society as a whole and want to just be left alone.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I agree....and with most of the politicians being lawyers there will never be any tort reform....no matter what is said or promised for your vote.....irregardless of the "label" that is claimed to be worn...........


----------



## Rammy

Latestarter said:


> There is so much misinformation, misconception and down right deception by one side trying to "beat the other side" out there that discovering the truth of ANYTHING is becoming damned near impossible. Kind of like what our laws have become... find a law that says one thing and if you look hard enough, you'll find another that contradicts the first. And there are so many laws that one can be found to make basically anything that you do punishable under some pretext or another. It's no wonder that many of us are becoming more and more withdrawn from society as a whole and want to just be left alone.


Amen to that.


----------



## Latestarter

So after a half hour run around including multiple pass offs including being passed off to a busy signal, I finally got what I was seeking. My DirecTV bill is due by tomorrow. I presently have 3 tiers/levels. They promised me a set price for 2 years and then only gave it to me for one. My 2 year commitment is up. It is presently costing me $139.41/mo. I could have switched to dish network and gotten all but I think 2 channels that I now watch for ~$79/month (+taxes and fees) locked for 2 years. When I finally got to speak with someone in Customer retention, I was able to remain with everything exactly as it is now service wise for $69.49/mo (+taxes/fees) for one year with a one year commitment. The bill due tomorrow will remain at the old amount however, as it's actually to cover from 1/4 through 2/3 and they no longer prorate. So starts next billing cycle. So $70/mo savings... basically cut the bill in half. Now to do the same thing with my internet service... Wish I could do it with my mortgage...


----------



## Mike CHS

Saving money is always a good thing.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Have to agree with above rant on everything from misinformation to politicians. .....but then again they are one and the same thing  ...glad you got your Direct tv bill reduced !


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Wish I could do it with my mortgage...



You know we'd all love that but, they don't cooperate.  Oh, you could pay 1/2 and they would call it "foreclosure".. 

VA does not have homestead exemptions & land is lower rate for ag use, except 1 acre & house, etc....but, I qualified for a senior allowance of $1K per year on RE Tax  It's not a pay-back at sale, just a "gift".  Jumped on that.

ON the subject of expenses -- I had to renew my driver's license last week.  $31. on line, saving $5 from "in person".  Couldn't believe it!   Heck, I remember when it was only $6.    OK, been a while  but, they sent me an email to renew online.    I guess if you can read email you can drive.  

I'm taking every senior discount I can find.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> There is so much misinformation, misconception and down right deception by one side trying to "beat the other side" out there that discovering the truth of ANYTHING is becoming damned near impossible.


I've not found that to be the case most of the time.


Latestarter said:


> So after a half hour run around including multiple pass offs including being passed off to a busy signal, I finally got what I was seeking. My DirecTV bill is due by tomorrow. I presently have 3 tiers/levels. They promised me a set price for 2 years and then only gave it to me for one. My 2 year commitment is up. It is presently costing me $139.41/mo. I could have switched to dish network and gotten all but I think 2 channels that I now watch for ~$79/month (+taxes and fees) locked for 2 years. When I finally got to speak with someone in Customer retention, I was able to remain with everything exactly as it is now service wise for $69.49/mo (+taxes/fees) for one year with a one year commitment. The bill due tomorrow will remain at the old amount however, as it's actually to cover from 1/4 through 2/3 and they no longer prorate. So starts next billing cycle. So $70/mo savings... basically cut the bill in half. Now to do the same thing with my internet service... Wish I could do it with my mortgage...


This happens frequently and it is usually the fault of the salesperson if the original point of purchase was by phone. Salesperson is authorized to offer only 1 yr discount but will often offer 2 years verbally but when the written contract arrives, the fine print of the TOS states 1 yr. BUT, DTV records all their phone sales conversations, even those with overseas salespeople. If you  have a dispute, tell them to cut the service off and send you the packing box in which to ship their electronic box back, ... within a day or 2, customer retention will go back and review that conversation and will almost always make good the 2 yr commitment their salesperson originally offered, tho it may be in the form of coupon discounts, and I have seen instances where those coupons dropped the monthly premium down to below what the one yr premium discount was.

(One way to avoid this, is to look closely at the written contract the minute it arrives by mail, which is usually a couple days after the original phone conversation with the salesperson. At that point you call and keep calling until you get someone on the phone that speaks good English.....lots easier to get it straightened out right after service is established)


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> So $70/mo savings... basically cut the bill in half.


Persistence pays off!



Mini Horses said:


> ON the subject of expenses -- I had to renew my driver's license last week. $31. on line, saving $5 from "in person".


Interesting. It would cost more here because they nail you for using a credit card (since they get nailed a %age by the CC company). Cheaper to renew by mail or in person with a check.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Persistence pays off!
> 
> 
> Interesting. It would cost more here because they nail you for using a credit card (since they get nailed a %age by the CC company). Cheaper to renew by mail or in person with a check.


It's 'only' $76.50 to renew my pickup registration for 2019. I don't know what it is to renew my driver's lic, since that is at another office (state) and I haven't had to do it for several years.
They "nail you' here for using plastic even in person at the county DMV/county property tax office, & you sure don't want to use plastic to pay property taxes. I believe it's a  2% surcharge for using your debit card.


----------



## farmerjan

If you do the renewal on line, they give you a dollar or 2 off and you have to use a cc so that's okay.  It costs more to do it in person.  I just renewed the car reg for 3 years and saved a whopping $5.00, I think.   But I don't have to worry bout it now.  It was like $124 for the 3 years?  The farm use on the trucks and such are no charges, but I do carry liability insurance on them.


----------



## Latestarter

Mel has made his way back into the back yard again, but now I know how and where he's coming through. There's a section of welded wire fencing running along the back boundary between the yard and pasture. Most of the length where the goat night pen is I've reinforced with cattle panels. Just beside the tornado shelter and in that corner, the goats had climbed it to eat the leaves and bark off a tree there and broken the welds, twisted and broken the wire. All Mel had to do was push his nose and head through and the rest followed.

Sorry all, but in a bit of pain, and not feeling like sitting here at the moment. Besides that, I'll have goat chores to tend to shortly. Hope all are having a splendid Thursday.


----------



## Rammy

Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

hope you are back to feeling better soon


----------



## Latestarter

After my last time online, I shut down to go do chores and as I'm walking past the back doors, I see a very clear broadside of DS. Yeah, no fence between her & I. She found the hole that Mel widened and decided to investigate. She was a little upset being separated from the herd so I talked to her and led her to the gate and the other goats came up and she followed me through. VERY thankful that Elf didn't let his prey drive get the better of him. Perhaps seeing their actual size up close deterred him. Whatever, no damage done. Soon as I got the area temp fenced with 2x4 sheep and goat, Mel came to the corner trying to come back through. Sorry compadre... not happenin' any more.

Also brought him down a dry food re-fill for his bowl and some meds for his issues. I have to hide the medicine bottles under clothing because if he sees them, he is standoffish and won't let me near him. Got his eyes coated with triple antibiotic. It's really helped with the rawness, swelling, and scabbing. Still irritated but getting much better. Also hit up his "wounds" with an antifungal spray.


----------



## Bruce

Poor Mel 
Glad you found the escape route and were able to fix it. Hope your ailments improve quickly.


----------



## Baymule

I hope you feel better soon. I hope Mel gets better too. Stupid welded wire is crap. Glad you found the hole and patched it!


----------



## Latestarter

Mel has shown that he is smarter than I. Haven't checked the repair but he's out back and was up on the deck once again. I'm feeling really bad... light headed, chills, diarrhea, Just up from my recliner snuggled under a blanket. Took a couple of excedrin for the headache and about to head to bed... Isn't even 10pm yet... Been drinking water with honey and a little sugar in it. Don't need the salt... God knows I get enough of that on just about everything I eat. Wondering if I picked up something last time I went to wally world, that wasn't on the list.


----------



## Rammy

I hope your not getting that crap thats going around. Its gonna knock you on your keister.


----------



## Mini Horses

Latestarter said:


> Wondering if I picked up something last time I went to wally world, that wasn't on the list.



You never know!   Every store carries something "different". 

But, sounds like you may be down for a couple days.  Feel better.   Drink lots of hot tea.
When you're feeling better, Mel will show you more.


----------



## Latestarter

Mel didn't want me medicating his itches so he crawled under the goat mansion... damned dog.   He's improving and you'd think he'd figure out the reason why... The fence repair I did hastily yesterday, he made a mockery of... put his big ass head and paw up on it, pulled it down and then went right through.  Thinking I might have to cut a section of cattle panel to put there so he can't continue to bend it. It's rotted out welded wire so attaching the new woven wire to it is about useless. Not in a position to replace the whole fence yet.

Went to bed 10:30 last night. Woke off and on but didn't get up till after 8am. Still feeling like crap, but I'll be hitting my recliner here with a blanket and mug of hot tea, and will nap the day away. Stomach was still feeling queasy this morning so I took a couple of gulps of Pepto Bismal...  Even washing it down with water I have a nasty after taste in my mouth. Really should go to wally world and pick up some power aid... Do NOT want to go through renal failure again...  Keeping the inside temp down at 65°... I seem to recover quicker when it's cooler. Least I'm not chilled at the moment. The blanket I use is awesome as well, so once under it, not an issue.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Take care of yourself ...and hope you are feeling better sooner than later  ...at least if you have to go to wally world...you can wear your PJ's like they do around here...just throw on a pair of cowboy boots and you'll fit right in.


----------



## RollingAcres

I hope you feel better soon @Latestarter and take care of yourself.


----------



## Mike CHS

One of my Christmas gifts was a small electric blanket to use on the couch.  I never thought I would use something like that until I got it.


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> One of my Christmas gifts was a small electric blanket to use on the couch.  I never thought I would use something like that until I got it.


I know they and their safety have improved greatly over the decades, but I still remember the ones from my childhood that were prone to catch on fire. The controller on my grandmother's began smoking one evening when she was staying with us and I've never been inclined to buy or use one since...about 1958.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, they may be somewhat improved since 60 YEARS ago. Some things they DO make better than they used to.



Latestarter said:


> Wondering if I picked up something last time I went to wally world, that wasn't on the list.


Dang!



Latestarter said:


> Thinking I might have to cut a section of cattle panel to put there so he can't continue to bend it.


Seems a reasonable thing to do, I though you used a piece of sheep and goat to effect the repair? That would not have been welded. Maybe you couldn't get it attached to the posts but just to the rotting welded wire.


----------



## Latestarter

Well I took a larger section/piece of woven wire fencing and attached it at the top by fencing staple to the wood corner post. I then draped the other end over the top of the T-post and down onto the already attached fencing... He will not be pulling this piece down. I hope it will hold till my hands are working well enough to do it up right. You know how difficult it is to hammer when your hands don't work? 

Sitting here finishing up a mug of bullion broth. Figured I probably did need a little salt at this point. I think I'm about done shedding intestinal lining   Sure hope so anyway... My hands will now close, but no grip with the left, and very little with the right. I think I'm going to make some scrambled eggs and see if that helps. Haven't had any "food" since early yesterday. Don't consider this bullion as "food".

I left the night pen gate opened tonight. A couple of goats were still outside wandering around after dusk. When I'm done here, I'll go down and check on things. Make sure they all went inside and find out where Mel is.


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> since 60 YEARS ago.


You just had to remind me huh?


----------



## goatgurl

hate your feeling bad again.  I watch all the people going into wally world and grabbing one of those wipey things and scrubbing their cart down, silly folks, you should do that as you're leaving instead.  only the good Lord knows what you and someone else have touched in there so to keep from taking it home with you wash your hands, etc after you get out of that germ factory.  take care of yourself.
   and @greybeard I agree with you on the electric blankets.  I remember my dad carrying my sister and I out of the house under his arms while dragging another sister along behind once in the middle of the night because mom's electric blanket caught on fire.  nope, don't care how much better they are i'm still not using one.  I fill a 2lt coke bottle with hot tap water, poke it down into a knee sock and tada, warm feet.


----------



## Baymule

Hope you are feeling better. Sounds like you got Wall-Martian's-Disease. It circulates around and around inside those walls. DH and I both think we once got sick from looking at magazines in a doctor's office. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.


----------



## Rammy

You dont realize how many germs are on things people touch daily. Even when I use public restrooms, I try not to touch anything. Nasty.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Rammy said:


> You dont realize how many germs are on things people touch daily. Even when I use public restrooms, I try not to touch anything. Nasty.



Know what you mean Rammy, but as you get older "hanging  over the bowl" gets harder.....depends are looking better every time I pass them in the store ....and I use a paper towel to open the rest room door too...


----------



## Bruce

I've noticed that some restroom doors have toe "hook" handles as well as the regular ones. And often they have a trash can near the door so you can use the towel you dried your hands on to open the door then toss the towel. Then there are the places with air dryers, no chance to not touch that door handle.


----------



## Rammy

I use my sleeve or a paper towel to open the door. As far as hanging over the bowl, my aunt puts down several sheets of toilet paper or uses those covers they sometimes supply.  Sad to admit, but those depends sometimes dont seem all that bad when you have to choose between using a stall or trying to hold it til you get home.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Rammy said:


> I use my sleeve or a paper towel to open the door. As far as hanging over the bowl, my aunt puts down several sheets of toilet paper or uses those covers they sometimes supply.  Sad to admit, but those depends sometimes dont seem all that bad when you have to choose between using a stall or trying to hold it til you get home.



My thoughts exactly


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Try taking toddlers in public restrooms! It’s enough to give you a heart attack, even if they do behave well.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Wehner Homestead said:


> Try taking toddlers in public restrooms! It’s enough to give you a heart attack, even if they do behave well.



That sounds like a nightmare or the beginning  of a panic attack...I don't  know how  you do it.... I surely  hadn't  given that a thought ............. 
Was at Universal in  Orlando when the movie CONTAGION  was showing. ....we watched it in Imax  Theater ........my name is Barbara....I am a germaphobe


----------



## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Then there are the places with air dryers, no chance to not touch that door handle.


I'll take my chances with paper towels or drying my hands on my pants legs.
public hot air hand dryers are spreading fecal bacteria around
https://www.iflscience.com/health-a...ientists-think-theyre-a-public-health-threat/


----------



## Goat Whisperer

greybeard said:


> I'll take my chances with paper towels or drying my hands on my pants legs.
> public hot air hand dryers are spreading fecal bacteria around
> https://www.iflscience.com/health-a...ientists-think-theyre-a-public-health-threat/


THIS! 
I never use those horrid things.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Goat Whisperer said:


> THIS!
> I never use those horrid things.



Glad to know others are germ aware...... nasty


----------



## Mike CHS

I avoid those things like the plague (no pun intended).  We carry wet wipes that we even take into restaurants to wipe our hands after handling one of the biggest germ carriers of them all, Menus...


----------



## Bruce

Good point Mike, obvious, though I've never thought about it.


----------



## Baymule

It's a wonder we aren't all dead. Didn't know that about the air dryers. Gross. Never thought about menus either. Yuck. Handle the dirty menu, then eat. Or go to the bathroom and get 254 bacteria strains blown onto your hands by the "clean" air dryers.  Think we'll just stay home and eat our coconut/almond flour imitation baked goods, home raised meat and veggies.  LOL


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Kids often dry their hands on my jeans as I know where they’ve been. I’ve been known to just let DS pee by the vehicle. DD2 gets cathed in the vehicle. I won’t use a baby station for nothing! DD1 is 7 and perfecting her hover! I carry wipes and hand sanitizer everywhere I go.


----------



## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Never thought about menus either.


My wife worked as a waitress years back and they had to use disinfectant spray cleaner on all the plastic sleeved menus at least once/shift. I don't know if that was sector wide practice or not and don't know what a place would do with paper menus.
I'm really not much of a germaphobe...or any other kind of phobe and I very very very rarely ever come down with any kind of illness. I've worked under tractors, laying in cow poop, had all manner of nasty stuff spit or otherwise spattered on me by both people and animals. I don't think I've ever used one of those sani-wipe things, never bothered wiping down a shopping cart or any of the rest of the stuff I keep reading we're 'supposed' to do. I might die tomorrow but I ain't scared of it and all things considered, it's been a good run anyway.


----------



## farmerjan

There is something to be said about trying to avoid some germs.  Especially things like the flu germs and such ..... but there is also some merit to being exposed to germs and the body building a resistance to them.  I waitressed for years and we also tried to wipe down the menus with some regularity. And I know that you can pick up some nasty stuff.  But again, there have recently been several studies that show that children that are exposed to pets, and "dirt" at early ages are at least  5 times less likely to develop allergies.  Do you realize all the allergies that kids have nowadays that many of us never had?  I am not saying to not be careful, and kids  that have special needs or health issues, the parents need to guard against exposures that can lead to infections or serious health problems.. but we are to a place where we are "guarding our health to death".  I don't get hysterical about germs on shopping carts.  I don't like the air blowers in restrooms for one reason... Usually if there are air dryers, then there aren't paper towels.  I like a wet paper towel to wipe my face if I need to, I like a paper towel to be able to dry my hands without them getting the air which feels cold at first, then hot and "drying" out my skin. 
I try to cover my mouth when I sneeze or cough as I know that germs get spread that way.  Many people don't.  It is again about teaching kids basic sanitary procedures.  There are alot of diseases and germs that we come in contact with nowadays that come from other places/countries etc.  And we don't have resistance to things we have never been exposed to.  But sometimes I think we are hurting ourselves by not ever getting exposed to some things so we build up a healthy resistance.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’ll say that farm and home germs don’t bother me. Germs at work and public places do.


----------



## Bruce

It does seem that the "away from home" germs are the worst. Probably a higher concentration of them with a ton of people passing through, all with various bacteria and viruses at the ready.


----------



## Mike CHS

The small church that Teresa goes to seems to be the center of the cold season here as they keep passing cold bugs back and forth.


----------



## Latestarter

Thanks all. rough day today. not staying long, too many posts to try and catch up... Not feeling up to it. Hands, wrists, elbows and shoulders, along with ankles and feet are giving me issues. Walking like an old man... a really old man...  Can't don't want pain killers as the guts aren't right yet. Need to refill feed barrel but hands etc too sore to do so tonight. Hope they are a little better tomorrow. Guess I'll have to find a way...  Sore throat has calmed down a bit, but still there. Feeling queasy, light headed, drank a lot of water... trying to NOT get dehydrated.  no renal issues this time. Still dealing with the diarrhea, but no where near as often and it's no longer pure liquid. Nice change.

Shivering after chores so turned heat from 65 to 74. Once warmed up, will turn back down and head for blanket once again. weather has been OK past few days. Was able to do night chores in shorts again. Around 60°. Looks to be the same, ~60 tomorrow then poss rain and temp drop. Have been leaving the goat pen open at night. No issues yet. Mel doesn't seem interested in sleeping inside. Will see what happens when it starts raining. Hard a$$ isn't letting him in the back yard this time. Perfectly good shelter for him down there.

Seriously tired of feeling this way.  Seriously considering a major life style re-evaluation... No real thrill in life when restricted to a recliner every waking hour except when hurting, trying to do animal chores.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Sorry latestarter....get better soon


----------



## Rammy

Same here. Get better soon. Too bad I dont live close by, Id come help you.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Shivering after chores so turned heat from 65 to 745.




Geez Joe, I wish you weren't hurting so bad. Nothing a doctor can diagnose and offer some help?


----------



## Rammy

Im kinda wondering how he can stand temps of 745 degrees.  I know, I know, its a typo!


----------



## greybeard

I realize you are retired military, but are your only doctors VA?


----------



## Baymule

greybeard said:


> I realize you are retired military, but are your only doctors VA?


VERY good question.


----------



## goatgurl

God love ya, hope you get to feeling lots better asap.  I agree with @greybeard, @Wehner Homestead  and @farmerjan about farm and home dirt being actually good for you and good for kids, it truly helps stimulate the immune system but the thing that you pick up outside the home/farm environment is a whole other bag of worms.  so many things are bodies aren't used to and so many things you just can't fight.  a healthy immune system is hard to come by now a days.  feel better, soon


----------



## greybeard

goatgurl said:


> God love ya, hope you get to feeling lots better asap.  I agree with @greybeard, @Wehner Homestead  and @farmerjan about farm and home dirt being actually good for you and good for kids, it truly helps stimulate the immune system but the thing that you pick up outside the home/farm environment is a whole other bag of worms.  so many things are bodies aren't used to and so many things you just can't fight.  a healthy immune system is hard to come by now a days.  feel better, soon


It's kind of a double edged sword tho. 
I fully share your and farmerjan's thoughts on being exposed to 'germs' as being 'good' for the immune system.
And, if that exposure is good for us and our immune systems, it's reasonable to believe it is good for 'us' to unwittingly and without malice sometimes expose others to 'our' farm germs. We have all, at one time or another, gone to town in our muddy boots and even manure encrusted jeans cuffs and interacted with the public. 
Having said that tho, if the above is true, it is equally reasonable to assume it is also good for 'us' to be exposed (within reason) to germs others may have....city folks' germs. 
I'm certainly not a proponent of 'mumps infection parties' that you read about, I cover my mouth if I have to cough or sneeze,  but we shouldn't expect to have it only one way, and I'm certainly not in favor of doing anything that might make someone else sick but I'm personally not going to become too paranoid regarding what/which/how many microorganisms other people may be shedding about.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter, maybe your idea about going RVing fulltime isn't so bad.  That way you could move around the country to where the weather is relatively nice.  That would mean a BIG change for you, of course.  And what I said earlier about not having a place to come home to if you got tired of traveling for awhile would be a big downside.  But maybe traveling would be good for you.  It is a big shame for you to have to stay cooped up in your house, chair bound because of aches and pains.  Maybe you could try RVing for a month or so.  That way you could get a taste of what it is like before you sold your house and animals.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> You just had to remind me huh?


@Bruce is not that far behind


----------



## RollingAcres

Wehner Homestead said:


> Try taking toddlers in public restrooms! It’s enough to give you a heart attack, even if they do behave well.


Totally agree!


----------



## RollingAcres

@Latestarter I hope you feel better soon!


----------



## Bruce

RollingAcres said:


> @Bruce is not that far behind


True, only a few years. Not like you young whippersnappers!


----------



## High Desert Cowboy

Sorry you’re sick, there’s been a lot of that floating around lately.  It’s been so bad at the schools that 20% of the kids are out sick at any given time.  Get feeling better soon


----------



## Latestarter

Was so sore last night I couldn't sleep. Couldn't lay still for pain, and every movement caused more. 4am broke down and took a Oxycodone with 4 ibuprofen. 20 minutes later, felt the warmth start, pain back off, and slept till 8:30. Trade off is I now have a sharp pain in my right chest where fluid built up in the lung. Rt Eustachian tube is fired up also. Gonna try to sleep tonight without afrin, or prescrip painkillers.
Knees are back to working, say ~75%, ankles a bit worse at ~50%. Shoulders are sore but elbows are OK at the moment. Wrists & hands are very painful and I actually took out the 5 day course of steroids to start tomorrow if there isn't more improvement. Still not eating much, but drinking and remaining hydrated.

Got a txt message that I have a Dr appt Monday with my PC doc. Excellent! Timing couldn't have been better! Yes, the VA is my primary care facility and I don't use local docs or facilities unless forced. My son has something where he can use any facility and the VA pays the bill because he's >70% disabled and lives outside whatever miles of a VA facility. I keep meaning to check into that program... 

Next Tuesday I'll need to replenish goat feed. Need to order it tomorrow. Also need to get to town and pay my 2nd property tax bill. That's due by the 31st. Car insurance is due before the end of Feb.

Wind has picked up since goat chores. It's really ripping out there!   Just saw this: Compliments of National Weather Service

*"Very Dangerous and Life-Threatening Arctic Air Mass Expected This Week*
Back to back cold fronts will slice through the eastern two-thirds of the country to deliver one of the coldest arctic air intrusions in recent memory, especially from the Upper Midwest to the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley. From Tuesday through Thursday, expect frigid temperatures and bitterly cold wind chills, likely leading to widespread record lows and low maximum temperatures."​
Get ready you northern plains folks! Bank those hearth fires and try to stay warm!


----------



## Rammy

Its already started here. Temps dropping all day. Cant wait to see what we get tomorrow.


----------



## Bruce

Whatever is steering that really frigid air seems to be running it not through here. And no I am NOT complaining  The coldest we are supposed to see in the next 6 days is -5°F at 6 AM Saturday


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure hope ya get better Joe and find something that works for ya....nothing can be so irritating as the refusal of the body to perform and function properly...........the fridgid air is taking us down to 39.....I know...........


----------



## Baymule

Joe I am so sorry that you are feeling so bad. I hope when you go to the Dr that you can get some help.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> I keep meaning to check into that program...


now would probably be a good time to do so.
Do you not qualify under Veteran's Choice?
https://www.military.com/benefits/veterans-health-care/va-choice-act.html

_
*Who Is Eligible For The Veterans Choice Program?*
If you are a combat veteran or were enrolled in VA healthcare prior to August 1, 2014 you may be eligible if ANY of these situations apply:

You have contacted your local VA medical facility and been told that you can’t schedule an appointment within 30 days
You live more than 40 miles from the closest VA medical facility
You must travel by air, boat or ferry to the nearest VA medical facility
You are faced with an excessive burden due to traveling to the closest VA medical facility. Some accceptable reasons include: geographic challenges, bad weather, medical conditions, or other specific factors as determined by your clinician
All veterans living in Alaska & Hawaii are eligible for the program. Vermont veterans living more than 20 miles from the White River Junction VA Medical Center in that state are also automatically eligible.

You should call the VA at 866-606-8198 to verify your eligibility._


----------



## Latestarter

Yup, that's the one GB.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Whatever is steering that really frigid air seems to be running it not through here. And no I am NOT complaining  The coldest we are supposed to see in the next 6 days is -5°F at 6 AM Saturday


Yeah here too. Around -4 for low tomorrow.


----------



## RollingAcres

LS, I hope you are able to get some help with this pain you are having.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

RollingAcres said:


> Yeah here too. Around -4 for low tomorrow.



Sunbathing weather for you?


----------



## RollingAcres

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Sunbathing weather for you?


Yes! From inside the house, next to a sunny window.


----------



## Bruce

We are looking at near -20°F wind chill Thursday through Saturday mornings. I bet LS is glad he doesn't have that!


----------



## Hens and Roos

As of 6pm tonight, we are under wind chill warning until Thursday at noon...wind chill maybe around -50 F by tomorrow morning....brrr


----------



## Mike CHS

Oh My!!!!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

oh heck no......never again will I live in that cold artic weather.....


----------



## Latestarter

Damn H&R... Sorry but I couldn't force myself to like that post...   That's just too arctic for me to consider. I'm happy for the polar bears and hope it keeps that ice sheet up there solid a little longer so they can hunt seals. Maybe keep them from extinction a while longer. They're born into that environment and designed to survive and even thrive in it. I ustacould function down in negative 10-20 degree weather, but as I've aged, I've definitely whimped out. I suppose, life or death, we all do what we need to, but it's not something I'd willingly "get up close to" or put myself in a position to have to deal with any more.

OK, so I started the 5 day steroid course this morning at 4am. Took me 10 minutes to get vertical from the bed and another ten to hobble into the bathroom on extremely painful feet/ankles and knees. Very much improved over 16 hours thankfully! On the cold front, the sore throat is still fighting to hang on but is losing that battle, thank you very much. Stomach has finally settled back to about normal. What follows that organ will normalize over the coming days I'm sure. I've noticed that in the past day or two, salty things have tasted way saltier and sweet things much sweeter. Have backed off salting things and kicked back on sweetening in my tea.

I have some appetite returning. Felt human enough by dinner time that after animals chores I went to the store and picked up some milk and a few other items (bananas, salad mix, baby spinach, carrots, celery - gonna try to eat a bit more healthy ). Been craving milk for days. The last I had from Jersey Girls went south several days ago and I wasn't in any condition to go get any. Soooooo nice to have milk again 

Had been craving pizza so swung by Domino's on the way home and decided to try their 7.99 medium deep dish w/3 toppings. Had 3 slices, finishing the 3rd right now. Not really sure what I think about it... It's not a "traditional" deep dish crust by my experience... Taste/texture is a bit "off"... but it definitely filled the hole that needed filling. Stomach feels rather distended.

Less than 100 alerts, no idea how many new posts, gonna try to get through them from the start.   Thanks for all the well wishes everyone. Much appreciated! Sorry if I came across as a whiner...

ETA: Was really pissed... system locked and wouldn't show the post, posted, couldn't load windows to copy it, and ended up having to do a hard restart. Though I'd lost the above and would have to start over. <whew!>


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Please....whining is allowed....I read that some where ????  Glad you are returning to your wonderful self, eating better is a great start, keeping pain under the max threshold is even better...that is why you were prescribed the pills, you will not become addicted when you use them for pain my friend, and besides your too smart to abuse them....please take them when you need them and get your dusty self back up, happy and moving


----------



## Rammy

Latestarter said:


> I went to the store and picked up some milk and a few other items (bananas, salad mix, baby spinach, carrots, celery - gonna try to eat ait more healthy



But then you go eat a calorie, fat laden pizza?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Yepper he did...he.needed it to replace the bulk that had  watered its way out... while being the king of the porcelain  throne .....
 thankfully the king is well enough to step  away from that duty


----------



## Latestarter

needed something "solid" in hopes of producing same at the end of processing.


----------



## Rammy

Thats understandable. Spending your time in the bathroom all day with it coming out one end or the other isnt fun. Get better soon and hope everything comes out alright.


----------



## Latestarter

So just loaded up on some vitamins... Vitamin B(acon) and E(ggs) being the main ones   Have you ever done bacon nachos? I mean use the bacon as the nacho chips? 

So if you cut thick sliced bacon in 1/2 and cook it just right (just beyond limp - over cooked bacon is worse than a steak cooked past med rare ). It makes a pretty decent "platform" for the topping. Then cook a couple of eggs over easy and chop them all up into a yolky/soupy mix. Season as preferred, then shovel them onto those bacon slices and munch away! You can try the scoop and stuff (your face) option but I've found the eggs to be a little difficult to get up on the bacon adequately.   Haven't perfected bacon with even, level edges yet...   Either the eggs roll off or you break the bacon strip... Easier to cheat and use a fork or spoon to get that topping on the bacon. Don't think it would be a winner on a commercial scale, but for a home made breakfast or other meal, not bad at all. 

Seems we're on a slowly warming trend but it sure don't feel like it at the moment. 39°, damp, cloudy, and pretty much dreary outside but supposed to top out ~50 today with increasing sun. Gotta have some sun before it can increase... By Sunday, highs are supposed to be around 67°. Nowhere near worthy of complaint compared to some. 

Compliments https://www.wunderground.com/maps/temperature/us-current






My God I feel for you folks in all that purple shading!   I hope you and your animals are OK and can get through this. I mean these are basically today's HIGH temps!  Hang in there, stay warm, stay safe!


----------



## Bruce

I'm not sure why but we are going to miss that really cold stuff. And no I am NOT complaining. We are supposed to have "wind chill" lows in the mid -20°s tomorrow morning which isn't worse than what we expect to see as a real temperature occasionally in the winter. Yeah it IS cold then.

Glad you are improving LS! Miserable to be miserable.



Rammy said:


> But then you go eat a calorie, fat laden pizza?


Now Rammy, no nagging about the dietary habits until after the wedding


----------



## Rammy

I was wondering when you were going to say something, @Bruce .


----------



## Rammy

Latestarter said:


> So just loaded up on some vitamins... Vitamin B(acon) and E(ggs) being the main ones   Have you ever done bacon nachos?




Man's gonna kill himself before we get married.


----------



## Bruce

Rammy said:


> I was wondering when you were going to say something, @Bruce .


Can't say anything until I read the post!


----------



## RollingAcres

Latestarter said:


> So just loaded up on some vitamins... Vitamin B(acon) and E(ggs) being the main ones  Have you ever done bacon nachos? I mean use the bacon as the nacho chips?


Now that's the LS we all know! Lol. Glad you are feeling better @Latestarter !

@Bruce & @Rammy, you two!


----------



## Latestarter

<sigh>  Here we go again... 40-50% chance through Thursday and beyond next week...


----------



## greybeard

I've seen it this way for about 7 decades now. Typical East Texas winter.


----------



## Baymule

The Houston area only has two seasons, wet and dry.  

At least up here we do get a little bit more of seasonal changes, but we still get a lot of rain in the winter. Joe, maybe you need one of those imitation sunshine lamps to cheer you up.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> he Houston area only has two seasons, wet and dry.


Not lately...it's just been wet and wetter!


----------



## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> Not lately...it's just been wet and wetter!


Don't worry, July and August will get there.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> Don't worry, July and August will get there.



Not fast enough, lol.  But....the dreaded "H' word can come along then and what do you get with that?  MORE RAIN...


----------



## Mini Horses

Baymule said:


> Joe, maybe you need one of those imitation sunshine lamps to cheer you up.



ME, ME, ME, ME !!!!    I need sunshine -- I'm burning lights just for the brightness without any sun   At least they are the low draw LEDs.  Very bright, too.  Gloomy is not work inspiring -- just sleep inducing.  I need motivation!  Sunshine.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> <sigh> Here we go again... 40-50% chance through Thursday and beyond next week...


That is 50%-60% chance of NO rain. And it looks like 0% chance of temps anywhere near freezing. Make some lemonade Joe 

Seems like y'all need some many, many, many thousand gallon storage tanks to store the "rain season" for use in the "dry season".


----------



## RollingAcres

frustratedearthmother said:


> But....the dreaded "H' word can come along then and what do you get with that? MORE RAIN...


And skeeters, lots of them.


----------



## RollingAcres

Bruce said:


> Seems like y'all need some many, many, many thousand gallon storage tanks to store the "rain season" for use in the "dry season".


Good idea!

No rain or snow in the forecast here, well 10-20% chance, for the next week. Just cloudy and it's going to be WARM, 40 to almost 50 degrees!


----------



## Bruce

Looks like we might hit 40 Mon and Tue.


----------



## RollingAcres

Heat wave! You can use your pool to cool off!


----------



## Bruce

Yeah we can sit on the ice and freeze our buns!


----------



## greybeard

Closer to 100 than it is to 32.




Another forecast said we will see 80 deg Wed and Thursday.


----------



## Rammy

Tn skeeters can kick NYs skeeters butts any day.


----------



## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> Tn skeeters can kick NYs skeeters butts any day.


You can have our NY skeeters!


----------



## greybeard

I never understood it, but everyone that's ever been up there says Canadian and Alaskan skeeters put 'em all to shame.

https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/w...laskan-mosquitoes-are-the-stuff-of-nightmares

4th of July Barrow Ak.


----------



## Rammy

Naw. I hear they roam in gangs and carry knives and guns......


----------



## RollingAcres

greybeard said:


> I never understood it, but everyone that's ever been up there says Canadian and Alaskan skeeters put 'em all to shame.
> 
> https://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/w...laskan-mosquitoes-are-the-stuff-of-nightmares
> 
> 4th of July Barrow Ak.


----------



## RollingAcres

Rammy said:


> Naw. I hear they roam in gangs and carry knives and guns......


Those are city skeeters


----------



## Rammy




----------



## B&B Happy goats

X2x2


----------



## Latestarter

I got bit by several skeeters while doing night animal feeding chores...


----------



## B&B Happy goats

NEW YORK OR TENNESSEE  SKEETERS ?


----------



## Mike CHS

I was on Kodiak, Alaska back in the early 70's in summer and mosquito's were so think it was scary.  I guess it is because everything up there is in an accelerated growth mode since the season is so short.


----------



## Rammy

Skeeters are Alaskas state bird.


----------



## greybeard

Mike CHS said:


> I was on Kodiak, Alaska back in the early 70's in summer and mosquito's were so think it was scary.  I guess it is because everything up there is in an accelerated growth mode since the season is so short.


Canada must not be much better. I worked with a man that had taken a guided fishing trip to Great Bear Lake and he said it was the most expensive miserable 3 days he ever spent anywhere, with his last day spent sequestered inside a lodge because of the bugs.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well, here in Florida they never stop biting....just slow down when temps get below 50....


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Hope you are feeling better. Sounds like you got Wall-Martian's-Disease. It circulates around and around inside those walls. DH and I both think we once got sick from looking at magazines in a doctor's office. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.


I have a “hand sanitizer” bottle, that I keep in my purse. I use it a lot when I am out and about.  It has vodka, for the base liquid and about 7 or 8 esseential oils, that are antiviral, antifungal and antibacterial. One day, at farmer’s market, a man took a sniff of it, and said it smells just like “Theives Oil”, that he got from one of the MLM (as in too exensive because you are paying the upline) companies.  I went “Huh!” and checked it out online. Sure ‘nuff!  Several of the essential oils I use are in the original Theives Oil. So, it really does do the job killing off cold and flu bugs.  The key is to use it - and use it again multiple times during the visit to the store(s).

However, something to keep in mind, is that using a sanitizer wipe on door and cart handles isn’t the most important way to avoid getting colds and flu.  More important is to keep your immune system strong, by taking certain herbs and supplements (like Vitamin C, Vitamin D3, Schizandra and Astragalus) and eating cultured/fermented foods, like Kefir, Kombucha and fermented (not heated) sauerkraut, to build up the good probiotic (bacteria) in the gut. 80% of the immune system resides in the gut, and if you are putting toxic foods in the gut (which kill the good bacteria) and not replenishing the good bacteria on a daily basis, your immune system will be weak, and your body won’t be able to fight off the virus’ when you are exposed to them.

DISCLAIMER: The above recommedations won’t prevent ALL colds and flu. However, they will minimize your chances of getting them, and will most likely lessen the severity if you do get them.


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> I actually took out the 5 day course of steroids to start tomorrow if there isn't more improvement.


I know you get a huge improvement in your pain level, when you take the prednisone.  However, please keep in mind, that even fewer doses, than you have been taking, can wreck havoc with the immune system and cause longterm joint and organ damage. I have a friend, who has been taking prednisone for years, to help with disease related inflammation, and now she is miserable from all the joint and organ damage, that the prednisone caused.



Latestarter said:


> I went to the store and picked up some milk and a few other items (bananas, salad mix, baby spinach, carrots, celery - gonna try to eat a bit more healthy ).


  YAY!!!  Healthy food!!!    You go, LS!!!    

   Another thing to keep in mind, is that regardless of whether or not you are sensitive to gluten, because of the genetic engineering, of modern wheat, it most likely causes inflammation in everyone.  DH isn’t gluten or wheat sensitive, but he still notices, that when he eats a lot of bread, his joints hurt him a lot more. He cuts back and the sore joints get better.

Sugar (and carbs in general) also cause an increase in inflammation. I know since I went low carb, my ankle hasn’t been hurting nearly as much . Something to think about, LS.


----------



## Mike CHS

Teresa and I both are feeling less pain in places we have felt pain for years since going low carb. I'm like @babsbag in that I can't handle the high calories of strict keto but low carb works for me.  Even my shoulder that got operated on last March has more mobility and low back pain that I have always had is not there today.  Having lost 15 pounds in my case was just a plus.


----------



## Latestarter

These pain meds that I have in reserve are just that... reserve. I don't take them for a hang nail. They come out when I get to the point that I can no longer function. I have a pretty high tolerance to pain and have been living with it more and more over the past year or so. I'm making changes, and trying. IMHO, I'm not gonna be able to "undo" 40-50+ years of damage. I might be able to see a bit of improvement and hopefully prevent any further. But I'm not getting any younger and never will. The most difficult thing I ever did was stop smoking. The changes I'm incorporating will happen gradually over time.

There are a thousand and one "diets" out there designed to lose weight, ease pain, eliminate issues, heal any/all illness, prevent disease, eliminate the need for meds, etc. etc. etc. etc....... there are supplements and snake oils touted to do everything under the sun. Many have no clinical backing or proof to document any of the pronouncements. Each person's DNA is their own. What works for one won't necessarily have the same effect on another. Some folks handle certain things better than others. Some folks are predisposed to have certain issues as they age. Bottom line is IMHO, eliminating anything completely from your diet is NOT the right thing to do. Our bodies need a varied diet incorporating a little of all of it... fats, carbs, proteins, minerals & vitamins, etc. A "BALANCED" healthy diet should go a long way. Smaller portion sizes, not eating right before bed, getting up and moving (as best I can), getting some exercise, getting more proper rest, yes losing some (a lot) of the weight. All of these things should help. But I feel obligated to break the bad news to y'all... I will never be an Adonis type body builder again... 

Thanks for caring all! I do appreciate it!


----------



## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> because of the genetic engineering, of modern wheat, it most likely causes inflammation in everyone.



Just to be clear, there is no GMO wheat commercially planted, grown, harvested, sold or allowed to be used commercially anywhere in North America, Europe, or Eastern Europe.
 It's against federal (USDA/FSIS) guidelines for GMO wheat to even be grown outside test plots.
Wheat tho, just like almost all forages, and other plant species has been altered but not on the molecular level via genetic encoding, generally referred to as "genetic engineering".  As of December 2017, no GM wheat had been approved for release anywhere in the world.

"_Brett F. Carver 
Ph.D., Regents Professor and holder of the Wheat Genetics Chair in Agriculture, Dept. of Plant and Soil Sciences, Oklahoma State University, USA

No matter where it occurs, today’s wheat varieties are the product of the painstaking process of crossing parents and selecting offspring, often called conventional breeding. To suggest anything else would be misrepresentative of the current science, and art, of wheat breeding, which truly began in the United States in the 1920s. More specifically, parents with complementary traits are hybridized via natural fertilization to produce offspring with new genetic combinations (not new genes). New combinations are chosen that may lead to slightly higher yield potential, better resistance to diseases or insects, or perhaps better characteristics that enable such a wide variety of foods to be consumed from one plant species._"

This is no different than breeding the best traits of one animal to the best traits of another animal and farmers have been doing it to both plants and animals since the dawn of agriculture, and in fact, the domestication of wild rice (often cited as the #1 most important advancement of mankind) happened exactly this way around 5000BC as different cultivars were mated and developed from wild rice to enable it to be consistently grown domestically.

https://www.kitchenstewardship.com/wheat-is-not-genetically-modifiedso-why-so-many-sensitivities/


----------



## Devonviolet

Latestarter said:


> What works for one won't necessarily have the same effect on another. Some folks handle certain things better than others. Some folks are predisposed to have certain issues as they age. Bottom line is IMHO, eliminating anything completely from your diet is NOT the right thing to do. Our bodies need a varied diet incorporating a little of all of it... fats, carbs, proteins, minerals & vitamins, etc. A "BALANCED" healthy diet should go a long way. Smaller portion sizes, not eating right before bed, getting up and moving (as best I can), getting some exercise, getting more proper rest, yes losing some (a lot) of the weight. All of these things should help. But I feel obligated to break the bad news to y'all... I will never be an Adonis type body builder again...



Yes, we all have different genetics, and all will respond slightly differently to the same eating plan. However, while it has it’s place, relying solely on “scientific/documented” research is a big mistake.  There is a lot of anecdotal data (reporting) out there, that over time, has proven to show that some of the old time interventions do work.  Many times, the only way a scientific study (which is very expensive to do) is done, is if there is money to be made by the group doing the research - i.e. pharmaceutical companies doing studies on new drugs. They want to PROVE that the drug works, and do it relatively quickly, so they can sell it and make BIG money.

When it comes to more “alternative” ways of improving health, there is no financial gain from doing a big, expensive “double blind study”, so the study isn’t done.  That’s not to say a person wanting to know if something (i.e. a certain diet or herb or supplement) works, shouldn’t do a bit of research, to see if it works before trying it. Personal reports, of people, who have tried a method, can be _almost_ as good as scientific data.

Because our bodies respond differently, it would behoove us to read the comments, consider if they might help us, and give it a GOOD try (not a few days or a week, but minimum a month or more).  If it doesn’t work, “shake the dust off” (that’s scriptural ), do more “research” and move on to the next option. The saying, “Try it, you’ll like it!” might just apply.

In the end, one has to decide just how desperate they are, and how miserable they are to effect change, to the point that they really want to get better.  I personally have decidedd that I need to make the LOW (not NO) carb diet a permanent way of life, because I am tired of being over weight and in constant pain.

As far as finding a balance in nutrients, there is a lot to be ssaid for the low carb way of eating. In order to follow this way of eating successsfully,, it is important to balance your carbs, fat and protein. The best way to do that is to eat lots of non-starchy vegetables (no potatoes or legumes), some fat (bacon IS allowed - but no processed deli meats like pepperoni or ham), and some protein - too much protein is not good for weak kidneys.  By eating lots of vegetables, some lower carb fruits (like strawberries ARE allowed), eggs, higher fat dairy (like butter [NOT margarine ], cheese, sour cream and even half and half in your coffee), and meat, you will more than satisfy your nutritional needs, which includes carbs, protein, fat and vitamins and minerals.

And you are so right about lower calories being an important part of the equation. Some people start a low carb diet with the thought that they can eat all the fat they want (and more fat DOES help satisfy hunger pangs). However, as you said there has to be a balance.

I found a food diary, that allows me to keep track of my carbs, fat and protein for each meal of the day.  It is called My Fitness Pal:

myfitnesspal dot com

When you first register, you input your height and weight. At the home screen, you click on “Goals”. That takes you to a page where you can set your calorie intake as well as carbs, fat and protein percentages. From what I have read, the recommended percentages should be carbs: 5-15%, fat: 65-70%, and protein 15-20% (depending on your kidney function).  If you look at the numbers when. You first get to that page, it will give you a ballpark idea of what numbers work for a healthy weight loss. You can adjust it according to what works for you.  My calorie range is 1000-1200. It started at 1200 and I put it down to 1100. If I go a little over one day I don’t worry about it.  If you go too low, it will tell you, that you did not eat enough calories for maintaining health.

The cool thing about it is, all you do is input what you eat at each meal and/or snack (there is an “add food” button under each meal and snack (3 allowed a day). It does the calculations (percentages and total grams) for you.  At the end of the day, when you click a button to close out the day, it tells you, “If you continue to consume what you ate today, you will weight ___lbs in five weeks.”

One thing that I really like about it, is that if I am planning my meals (i.e. what’s for dinner?) for the day, I can put in what I’m planning and if it adds too many carbs or fat, I can click on the food item, (in the diary) and it will allow me to change a portion from a whole serving (1) to a half serving (0.50) and it will calculate the difference, for that item. Easy-peasy!!!    AND the best thing about it is, that it makes it easy for me to no eat too many carbs and/or fat.

Something else to consider doing, is to buy a pack of “KetoStix”, which when dipped in the urine, will tell you if your ketones are too high, if they are, you just add a few carbs to your diet, and continue to test until you are at a lower level.

And by the way . . . Some people equate ketones to ketoacidosis. They are not the same thing. Simply put, ketones are what spills into your blood, when you eat low carbs. Ketoaciedosis is a condition which comes from a diabetic having out of control blood sugars (too high and/or too low).  If you are diabetic, it’s a good idea to check your blood sugar levels several times a day, and you should check with your doctor before beginning a low carb diet - especially if you are on meds to control blood sugar, as blood sugar levels will naturally drop when eating low carb and if you continue to take diabetic meds, you can end up with negative health issues.


----------



## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> Just to be clear, there is no GMO wheat commercially planted, grown, harvested, sold or allowed to be used anywhere in North America, Europe, or Eastern Europe.


To clarify, I _should_ have really said that because of many generations of hybridization (and I am going back to the ancient grains like the most recently reintroduced ancient grain, Einkorn), the size of wheat kernals and gluten have been greatly increased. By breeding increased size of kernals, per acre production has increased and nutrition has decreased. By increasing gluten, bread dough is more elastic - creating tastier breads, and the incidence of gluten sensitivity has increased, due to higher exposure of gluten in the daily diet.  IMO neither of these is a good thing.


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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> Ketoaciedosis is a condition which comes from a diabetic having out of control blood sugars (too high and/or too low).


Ketoacidosis is almost always caused by high blood sugar and high levels of Ketones, coupled with low insulin production or the ability to utilize insulin. It's very very rarely an issue with low glucose levels. People with Type 2 mellitus (diabetes) very rarely have an issue with Ketoacidosis. It's the leading cause of death for those with Type 1 tho.

Low glucose (and other issues) can cause a different problem called Ketosis, which as you said, is the presence of Ketones but not high enough levels to cause acidosis. 
The two do sound similar, but are different.


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> 4th of July Barrow Ak.


That does NOT look like fun!



Rammy said:


> Naw. I hear they roam in gangs and carry knives and guns......


They don't need knives, they can cut just fine with their "mouths"!


----------



## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> By increasing gluten, bread dough is more elastic - creating tastier breads, and the incidence of gluten sensitivity has increased, due to higher exposure of gluten in the daily diet. IMO neither of these is a good thing.



I suspect you are correct. The big change in wheat due to natural selective hybridization has been in the height of the plant. Dwarf wheat. It's height was reduced to lower the amount of damage to the crops from wind, as well as problems in harvesting the tall varieties. 

Even in non-gmo corn sold for home gardens, we have seen the same thing done. When I was very young, almost all corn stalks, sweet and field corn, in this country were quite tall.  
Anyone that's ever grown corn knows how easy it is for their garden crop to blow over in a little wind storm and they have to go "stand it back up", which is a pitb but has to be done in order for the pollen to fall down onto the silks. 
Most sweet corn today, has little short spindly stalks, but it doesn't blow over nearly as easy as it did back when it was a 5-6-' tall stalks.


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## Mike CHS

Devonviolet said:


> myfitnesspal dot com




Thank you - that is very easy to use.


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## Latestarter

X2 Mike. Thanks DV!


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## Latestarter

Had 4 ibuprofen for breakfast (more for lunch), followed by 2 large carrots, several stalks of celery and a little ranch dressing for dipping, and a banana. Of course my big mug of tea, which I'm still nursing along. Been a recliner day once more with ice pack. Getting ready for SB LIII. Animal chores in another hour or so. Doc appt tomorrow at the VA so need to get a really early start. So not looking fwd to that. 

Weather's gonna be wet for the next week or so. Sucks because I need to restock all feeds (desperately); hay, goat pellets, chicken feed, dog food, none of which will do well being transported in a wet truck bed. On the ragged edge right now and will have to get dog food and at least 1 bag of goat pellets on the way home from the VA tomorrow, to get through Tuesday, or they don't get fed tomorrow evening/Tuesday morning. Big pellet order I'm supposed to pick up on Tuesday and will need to get hay then as well, as I'll be out by then. 

House temp internal @69°, turned heat off and will leave it off. Tonight's low supposed to be low 60s with highs tomorrow in mid 70s with some sun. Have the 2 windows behind/beside me open and the window by my recliner opened. Says it's 65° outside right now. All I know for sure is it feels warm, and damp.


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## Baymule

Go over to the low carb thread, there are some good recipes. I'm making hot wings for the SB tonight. Instead of dredging them in flour, i'm using crushed pork rinds (no carbs) and I bake them in the oven. 

I can't quite wrap my mind and appetite around the coconut flour and almond flour imitation baked goods, but if that's what it takes to drop weight, so be it. 

I hope you get to feeling better.


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## Mini Horses

Crap -- to sore everything!!!  I hate when I get to MUST go buy, for whatever reason it happened!  It just does, life happens.   So,  buy a tarp and put it over the truck bed to keep it dry, then to cover as you come home. 

I don't watch football, so --- nothing going on with that here.   No special meals, fans, kids, nothing....planning early to bed as I have to get up at 5:30 to do feed chores, get in & dressed for work, in order to pick up DGD at 6:45 to take her to school. My Grammi bus days are M, T, W each week for the month of Feb.    

I'll be thinking of you and hope your Dr appt goes well, with some relief for your pain, swelling, etc.   I am sure it is a bitch to try to function this way.   Yes, better eating may well help with health in general, and I am thrilled you have taken that into consideration.   After all, Rammy would like you to be functioning       We wait for a good (hopefully) update for medical 

ETA:  See, you are not alone.  An entire forum is checking on you!!


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## RollingAcres

Congrats LS, your Patriots won!
I hope your Dr appointment goes well.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> ...imitation baked goods...


Oh boy....yum,yum,yum.


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## Latestarter

Today was not a good day... Alarm off at 6, too dark to feed so snoozed until 7. Goats were being royal dicks. Everyone wanted to be at someone else's bowl. finally gave up. I try to protect the weaker and keep others away from them but they were being dicks too. Left here right at 8. Couple days ago they called and moved my appt to 12 from 2pm. My doc returned from India today so was on an admin day so had replacement doc. Oh joy. No knowledge of my history. Top it off we get to talking and he wants to have goats and a hobby farm at some point _& is a registered Vet in FL..._  guess the VA is either screening for the best, regardless of background, or, well, you know the alternative.   Seemed like a real nice doc and he cared... 

So lots of blood tubes today. needle pusher wasn't as accurate as I would have liked. 2nd time got the job done. So labs... uric acid was at 4 so well below tolerable at 6. I tried to explain to the doc I know what gout feels and presents like and what I'm experiencing is NOT GOUT! He finally accepted my input. So there's this pain indicator molecule that floats around in the body. PRS or PSR... something of that sort. Anyway, The average person on any given day should be below 7  I'm at 235! When the doc told me this I looked right at him and said... That's what I've been trying to TELL you doc! I'm in hellatious, continuous, spreading pain!!!  He wrote me another prednisolone script and a 7 day course of Oxycodone (4/day, 28 pills). Still had 7-8 tablets from the last script of OC, and told him so. Also explained they are NOT addictive to me, and are used only in the most dire times when I can't function. Doc has filed for consults and 3 month revisit. Said I might have to look at using a biologic as this may be some sort of auto immune issue. 

So I guess according to the numbers, I've now officially crossed over to the dark side... Sugar came in at 6.9, threshold for diabetes. So, no longer borderline, now officially am. It's the control sugar kind so the diet and changes are def going to be ramping up. He said it's not like life threatening or anything... I am right on the line designator. Keep losing weight (282 today), watch what I eat, try to stay mobile (wish I could... I'm so trying!).

I was in so much pain by the time I was checking out that I actually passed some tears... I explained to the girls that I was in really bad pain and just wanted to get home. They seemed a little freaked out... I tried to hide it as best I could. Lost it a little again picking up the scripts. Everyone was really nice today. Just wish the time hadn't gotten screwed up.

Anyway, couldn't come straight home... all out of dog food, all out of goat pellets so swung into Wallyworld, got some milk, nyquil, generic aleve (will try it again), paper products, new field shoes... yup, peeled a sole back again.  Then TSC for 1 bag of goat pellets. They actually had fresh feed!   Packaged mid January   By the time I got the goat pellets in the barrel and the goats fed, dog food in the house and opened, dogs fed, products put away... I hurt...  When done here, I'm planning recliner and ice packs. Tomorrow will be another really pain filled day...   12 bags of feed and whatever bales of hay. Gotta do it... no choice.


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## Rammy

So sorry your in so much pain. I certainly hope you get some relief from the meds. Wish there was something I could do to help.


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## Bruce

You could move to Texas and build a tiny house on Joe's property 



Latestarter said:


> Top it off we get to talking and he wants to have goats and a hobby farm at some point _& is a registered Vet in FL..._  guess the VA is either screening for the best, regardless of background, or, well, you know the alternative.


I don't suppose he referred to you as "an old goat" did he?



Latestarter said:


> Anyway, The average person on any given day should be below 7 I'm at 235!



Hope they can do testing to figure out if a biologic would help you. DW was on Enbrel for about 10 years and is now on Humira. I'm sure she wouldn't be walking were it not for those drugs. NOT cheap "off the shelf" but you have your VA insurance so it should be quite affordable. I think we pay only $5 for 3 months.


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## Rammy

I was seriously sitting here wondering how long it would take me to drive there on weekends to help out but its probably not a realistic idea.


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## Mike CHS

This is one of those that we all have an idea what you are going through but only you know your pain.  There are no good words other than to know that everyone wants the best for you.


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## Latestarter

OK... been sitting here for 2 hours. Took 1 oxycodone, 2 aleve, and 1 of the Arthritis pain killer NSAIDs I have just before I sat down. Still sore, but pain has backed off, and I'm about to check out of here. Gotta call my hay guy about tomorrow and hope he has something to offer me. Thanks all. I really appreciate all the well wishes and positive feedback. Rammy, way too long a drive, but I do appreciate the thought. OK, Night all! I'll let you know how things go tomorrow.


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## Mini Horses

Take the med and hope for relief!!   

Guess you will want to look at low carb eating now.  Really, bread, sugar & starches  (all the really good things).    But eggs & milk are ok.   Veggies, too! 


You do know that a vet has to go thru "normal" medical school, then another 4 in vet...so, IF he practiced as a vet he is used to working with those who can't describe it all.   That could mean a difference approach to treatments.


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## Devonviolet

I’m so sorry you are having so much pain, LS. I had siatica, when I walked the floors of St. Mary’s hospital, in Rochester. I would fight back the tears, until I got home. It was bad, but somehow I don’t think it was as bad as what you are going through.  I’m guessing a 15 on a scale of 1-10. Hopefully _eventually_ (not anytime soon, I’m sure), eating better and losing weight will help mitigate the pain some.



Latestarter said:


> Sugar came in at 6.9, threshold for diabetes. So, no longer borderline, now officially am. It's the control sugar kind so the diet and changes are def going to be ramping up.


A hemaglobin A1C (aka A1C) of 6.9 is definitely in the diabetes range. But, the good news is that this is your first reading in that range.  I can almost guarantee, by eliminating ALL sugar and lowering your carb intake, your bloodsugar readings WILL go down, and you will see your A1C will go down too. Keep in mind, that the A1C reading is indicative of a time span of 3 months, so you won’t see a change, in your A1C for at least that long. Your goal, ultimately should be to get it below 5.7.  By making a low carb lifestyle a way of life, it is absolutely doable.  You have made a good start.  So keep up the good work!!!


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## RollingAcres

I didn't "like" your post LS. I'm sorry that you are in so much pain.


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## Baymule

Did I read it right that you have another "visit" in THREE MONTHS? what the hell are you supposed to do in the meantime? Eat pills? Damnation. You are in PAIN and need relief, are there no other tests that can be run to further determine the causes of this horrible pain that you are suffering? You can't lay in the recliner eating pain pills for the next 3 months. You need help now. GRRRRR...…. that pisses me off to see you ignored like that. The prednisolone may help you now, but it is a double edged sword. It will eat away your joints and bones. My sister was on it and had both hips replaced and one shoulder, courtesy of prednisolone. Yes, it helped her deal with her issues, but it circled back around and kicked her ass. Use it carefully if you can. 

You are Blessed to have @Devonviolet in your corner. She is not a doctor, but something better. She is a healer. 

Taking care of the goats gives you something to get up for and keeps you motivates to get up and get moving, even through all the pain. It may hurt, but they keep you going. Big hugs.


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## greybeard

Good luck with the weight loss program and diet changes.
I personally don't adhere to or follow any kind of specific diet, and prefer to use portion size  control and especially exercise to keep off the lbs and keep my heart working as well as keeping my a1c down. (I have type2)
But, in your case, pain would probably prevent you from doing very much exercise right now and the low carb tread will undoubtedly help..

(DO AVOID youtube recipes from someone known as Genie B. Delishus (Trailer Park Cooking on youtube)


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## Baymule

Joe, I made the enchiladas @Mike CHS posted the recipe for on page 2 or 3 of the low carb thread. They were good! I made us 2 apiece, but I think just 1 and a salad would be a meal for us. I really, really miss tortillas. Now that I can make "tortillas" from shredded cheese, I can make us tacos! You should try the enchilada recipe. You are a good cook, they are easy.


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## Mini Horses

Devonviolet said:


> hemaglobin A1C (aka A1C) of 6.9 is definitely in the diabetes range. But, the good news is that this is your first reading in that range. I can almost guarantee, by eliminating ALL sugar and lowering your carb intake, your bloodsugar readings WILL go down, and you will see your A1C will go down too



For ME -if this made the difference between selective eating and daily pricks, sticks & all that....I'd even give up by beloved dark chocolate.   (Still smell it)  

You are on the brink...…..of recovery !!!    Steak & green beans need no sugar added.   

It ain't all bad, more bothersome to start, then 2nd nature.   Years back, when my low blood sugar got bad, I had to do the same.  It took about 6-8 months to get things back in line but, it worked.  High stress can cause problems --  your pain is HIGH stress.  Hope your meds are helping.


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## greybeard

If your Dr prescribes one of the GLP-1 antagonists (injectable pens such as Trulicity, Byetta or Bydureon), it will help get your a1c down and more than likely, you will also shed about 20-30-40 lbs in 6 months as a side effect. I hated the Bydureon injections (in the belly) but it got me where I needed to be in a hurry in regards to my diabetes. (These are not insulin..they help your body utilise the insulin it already produces)
(I stopped the Bydureon after 12 weeks..just didn't want to go thru the injections any more...definitely not pain free)


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## CntryBoy777

Well Joe, ya can add me to the group that Cares about and for ya....we've been busy with a few other things....so, I haven't kept up to date and active.....I surely hope they can get something figured out for ya and ya can find some comfort...ya sure deserve it.....


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## ragdollcatlady

Just caught up... Sorry about the pain. Hope you get to feeling better soon!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter, sir,

Just caught up.  Man, I sure hope you can get a handle on what's causing all of the pain.  It's really hard to enjoy life when the body is yelling.  I wish I could help you, though I don't know what I could do -- maybe provide comic relief!  Please let me and others know what we can do.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## greybeard

A "work weekend at Joes" may be in order to help get the physical work things finished there while he's recuperating and getting back on his feet?


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

greybeard said:


> A "work weekend at Joes" may be in order to help get the physical work things finished there while he's recuperating and getting back on his feet?



Sounds like a good plan.


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> A "work weekend at Joes" may be in order to help get the physical work things finished there while he's recuperating and getting back on his feet?


That a great idea, GB. So, when are you coming up to help with that?  Unfortunately, I can’t help, I am having foot pain issues, myself and have surgery scheduled, for the near future. I suspect @Baymule won’t be able to help either, as she has really bad knees. We were there yesterday, for a visit, and it is obvious she is also in a great deal of pain.


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## B&B Happy goats

Devonviolet said:


> That a great idea, GB. So, when are you coming up to help with that?  Unfortunately, I can’t help, I am having foot pain issues, myself and have surgery scheduled, for the near future. I suspect @Baymule won’t be able to help either, as she has really bad knees. We were there yesterday, for a visit, and it is obvious she is also in a great deal of pain.



Maybe  he would bring his friend Bill to help.....


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## Rammy

If it wasnt so far, thats what I had in mind was to come on the weekends.


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## Bruce

It would be cheaper for me to send him money to hire some help. Maybe @newton the goat should start her farm visits at Joe's place.


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## Latestarter

First, thanks all for the well wishes, ideas/suggestions, sympathy, empathy, and potential offers of manual labor help. None of what I'm dealing with presently existed when I bought this place. It has been building ever since. And it seems to be on a progressive path. This is the reason that I have postulated/intimated that my lifestyle may not be something I can continue with. Not throwing in the towel just yet, but I have to say, when the only reason you're getting vertical and moving is because you HAVE to for the animals, it's not a good thing. You guys here and BYH have been a real help and good for my attitude.

Bay, The doc visit for 3 months was/is just a routine visit, normally every 6 months. The consults will happen as soon as there's an opening. Hopefully in the next several weeks.

GB, nothing was mentioned along the lines of a pen to control A1C or anything of the sort. Like I said, right on the borderline so I guess it's not "critical" yet. Will see what next labs show as I HAVE been changing my diet and eating. Exercise just ain't on the table for discussion right now. Ankle/foot/knee pain makes it extremely painful to even shuffle and hands wrists (add elbows now) that aren't working as designed make exercise a no go.

All, I'm trying to avoid using the oxycodone and the steroids. I cycle between Ibuprofen, Aleve, Excedrine, and the arthritis pain reliever prescribed before from the VA. I also take low dose aspirine each morning.

OK, so I got a couple big bags of dog food and a 50# bag of goat pellets on the way home from the VA Monday (hurt!). Then Tuesday went and got the 12 bags of pellets, 25# of mineral, and a 3'x3'x8' (800#) bale of hay. By the time everything was unloaded/put away, I was wiped. Didn't finish breaking down and moving/stacking that hay inside till well after dark. The final bit was pure torture. Could barely walk last night. Extreme pain. Have spent most of today in bed dosing on NSAIDs to moderate the pain. Am able to get around and function, but at a cost... It hurts. Am forcing myself to move to do animal chores but little else.  Have so far NOT taken anymore oxycodone (morphine based). Have also avoided starting another 5 day pack of steroids. It's tough.


OK, wasn't (aren't/not) crying for sympathy... just letting y'all know what's going on here. Hope everyone is enjoying a better hump day than I. 76° and very humid, had to turn the AC on this morning to get the temp down in here and eliminate some of the moisture. OK, time for me to go back to horizontal.


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## B&B Happy goats

Dear friend, this is the only time i will bug you about this...use the freaking oxycodone as directed  at LEAST until your pain level is back to normal......and I don't  mean three days...do it for a week. Your body and brain are on pain overload...take them as directed , do only what you need to do and rest ... I PROMISE  you will feel better....and continue with your journey  on changing eating habbits.
Please be as kind to YOURSELF  as you are to others, take the meds  to "normalize your receptors " in your brain. When the pain level overides eveything ...you can not bring the pain into a managment level without heavy meds.  I love ya ..but your acting like a guy !  Take you medicine  and rest


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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> That a great idea, GB. So, when are you coming up to help with that?  Unfortunately, I can’t help, I am having foot pain issues, myself and have surgery scheduled, for the near future. I suspect @Baymule won’t be able to help either, as she has really bad knees. We were there yesterday, for a visit, and it is obvious she is also in a great deal of pain.


Any time he wants, as long as it isn't lightening.. 
A few days notice ahead of time will be good enough.


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## Latestarter

Come to think of it GB, how are you doing on your migration westward plans? I know it's something you're really looking forward to and you might as well get on it. You ain't gettin' any younger either.


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## Mini Horses

LS  -- have you considered having the house checked for mold, gases, formaldehyde (drywall), insulation and/or chemicals?   Up North, Boron (? I think) is an issue seeping into the houses.  You may have hit upon something that needs "fixing"....



Latestarter said:


> None of what I'm dealing with presently existed when I bought this place.




AND -- thanks for letting us know you are still functioning.


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## Latestarter

So I had thawed out one of those small circular, reusable, ~16 oz containers of chili several days ago. It's been sitting in the fridge as I have had zero desire to eat. Normally I'd scarf down the whole thing at a sitting. Just heated it up with some fresh diced onion and a little mixed cheddars over the top and could only finish 1/2. The rest went back in the container for prob tomorrow.

This home was built back in I believe the 70s. There is no drywall, the entire interior is paneled. No under floor insulation and on concrete piers so no way for soil gases to build up like in a basement or on a slab. No idea if there's wall insulation or not... scared to open a wall and find out. Had the standard home inspections performed prior to purchase and no mold/rot/termites/standing water under the structure/etc were present. It's really just my own life changes happening and could possibly be from my military time, my production job... who knows.

@B&B Happy goats  Thank you  From what I understand just one of those oxy tabs has a $20 street value. I've heard about the addictive nature and I do NOT want to even think about pushing that button. So, when I get to not functioning, THAT'S when I resort to them. My doc understands and so gives me the script when I am low or run out. I've used more in the past 3 days than the past 6 months.


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## Bruce

When you get to feeling better, I think some insulation under the floor would be a positive change.


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## Latestarter

And for update, I am still in pain, but it is being managed and I CAN function, just not like a healthy 30 year old...   I have a very high pain threshold. It takes a lot for me to cry uncle. But when I do, it's really a cry...  I can walk, but slowly and gingerly. I can use my hands and wrists again so can feed myself (and clean myself)  Hopefully like in the past, this "heat wave" will recede and I'll be OK again for a while. I hope also that the diet changes will help. I hope losing some more weight will help. TRYing to do positive things to assist with whatever this is. No more pills if I can help it.

So we had a little rain shower pass over this afternoon so I looked out to watch all the goats make a B-line for the shelter. Then I watched Mel... Normally when the rain starts he sits at the gate and stares at the house. Today he went inside the night pen and looked up to the house, then sauntered over and went inside with the goats. Hopefully no more requirement for him to be inside when it rains. He has shelter down there. Have the AC back on as it got up to mid 70s again in here and humidity is bad. Guess w have some bad weather to get through between now and Thursday afternoon then much more seasonal temps - cold.


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## Bruce

Mel might make an LGD out of himself yet! Sleeping with the goats is in the job description.
Glad you are feeling a wee bit better. I'm with you, wouldn't want to risk addiction to oxy, too manny bad stories. But then if it is like Percocet, I'd try to avoid it anyway. The few times I've had that it moved my brain a foot outside of my head. I did not like that feeling *AT ALL*. Oh, wait, I just looked it up, Percocet is oxycodone and acetaminophen. I know it isn't the acetaminophen that screws up my head.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Latestarter said:


> So I had thawed out one of those small circular, reusable, ~16 oz containers of chili several days ago. It's been sitting in the fridge as I have had zero desire to eat. Normally I'd scarf down the whole thing at a sitting. Just heated it up with some fresh diced onion and a little mixed cheddars over the top and could only finish 1/2. The rest went back in the container for prob tomorrow.
> 
> This home was built back in I believe the 70s. There is no drywall, the entire interior is paneled. No under floor insulation and on concrete piers so no way for soil gases to build up like in a basement or on a slab. No idea if there's wall insulation or not... scared to open a wall and find out. Had the standard home inspections performed prior to purchase and no mold/rot/termites/standing water under the structure/etc were present. It's really just my own life changes happening and could possibly be from my military time, my production job... who knows.
> 
> @B&B Happy goats  Thank you  From what I understand just one of those oxy tabs has a $20 street value. I've heard about the addictive nature and I do NOT want to even think about pushing that button. So, when I get to not functioning, THAT'S when I resort to them. My doc understands and so gives me the script when I am low or run out. I've used more in the past 3 days than the past 6 months.



You can not become addicted to them while you are using  them properly and while you are controling pain...you can become addicted if you continue to use the when you have no pain...street value is meaningless as you are not a drug dealer or ever would be one.....please use them till your pain is within your comfort zone to treat with your favortie OTC MEDS. ...please  already have a headache


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bruce said:


> Mel might make an LGD out of himself yet! Sleeping with the goats is in the job description.
> Glad you are feeling a wee bit better. I'm with you, wouldn't want to risk addiction to oxy, too manny bad stories. But then if it is like Percocet, I'd try to avoid it anyway. The few times I've had that it moved my brain a foot outside of my head. I did not like that feeling *AT ALL*. Oh, wait, I just looked it up, Percocet is oxycodone and acetaminophen. I know it isn't the acetaminophen that screws up my head.



i detest taking any pain med period. I don't  like the way they make me feel, but when pain level gets so out of control and is maxing signals to your pain receptior in your brain, you need to take the meds, to bring everything  back to a semi normal  functionl base to work from.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Come to think of it GB, how are you doing on your migration westward plans?


Very slowly. Continuing to get rid of some stuff, & hoping the cattle prices improve soon, as I'm sure not taking these hides 500 miles west to try to scrounge on mesquite beans and huisatche.


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## greybeard

Joe, even I have taken oxy few times in my life and I am usually able to manage chronic pain via other methods. When the doc prescribes it, just take it as prescribed.


----------



## goatgurl

awww, joe, i'm sorry you're still having so much pain.  please believe me in that if you use the oxy like prescribed you will NOT get addicted to it.  if you continue to take it after the pain is better but you like the way it makes your head feel then yup, chances are that you will.  I know you're doing the best you can and this will get better.  patience, you didn't get this way over night and you won't be able to fix it quickly either.  if there is anything I can do to help you please call me.


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## farmerjan

I'm going to chime in on the pain meds.  The whole thing that @B&B Happy goats  is trying to get through to you is true.  When the body goes on overload with the pain, it is TWICE as hard to get the level down.  You need to stay ahead of it, rather than try to play catch up.  Once you get some relief, then you can take less, or less often.... but if you get to the point of hurting so bad you can't move, then it defeats the whole purpose and you will not even get the relief you need then.   I know, I live with it with my ankle and knee.  And I do take something, BEFORE it gets past the point of no return,  so I can function.  Problem is they don't work very good on me anyway.  Drs. have said they never saw anyone who could function, with the pain levels I had, and not get any relief from strong pain pills.  It is like I tell them.... I may as well take M & M's  as some of what they have given me.  But I still try to stay ahead as best as I can,  and have sorta worked out a system that helps to some degree.  Be careful of too much over the counter stuff.  I get terrible reaction to "tylenol" and Ibuprophens"  in the form of rapid heartbeats.  Feels like I am going to have a heart attack... my heart gets to pounding and scared the bejesus out of me.  When I stopped everything, then tried adding back, it was the high dosages of the over the counter stuff.    SUCKS BIG TIME.


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## Baymule

haha, I get that @farmerjan. You and I have had some conversations on our wore out knees. I take nothing for it. Suck it up buttercup. I used to have a good gait, now I limp, lurch from side to side like a drunk. Waiting on Medicare, bring on the birthdays! But I don't think I am in the same league as LS. He has some super serious pain issues.

And Joe, I concur and agree with what has been said on the painkiller. Take the durn things and get some relief. Get the pain down to a dull roar, so you can manage it.


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## farmerjan

It also occurred to me that there is something else going on as has been suggested by @Mini Horses .  I am thinking maybe an allergic type reaction to something you have been exposed to... ie: the suggestion of mold or something.  Or something you ate?   Or god forbid, LUPUS?   I think whenever they can get you in you need to get very insistent that they run a test for that and gout (which you already have had some issues with?) ..... It sounds more like a reaction of your body to something that you have recently been exposed to.  Maybe it has triggered something dormant, or aggravated something.  
I am really sorry that you are hurting that bad.  It is not fun.


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> ie: the suggestion of mold or something. Or something you ate? Or god forbid, LUPUS?


Or Lyme Disease?


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## farmerjan

@greybeard   :  Thanks for thinking of that.  It should have occurred to me because my mother had it and battled it for years.  My son also had (has) it .  They say you never get completely over it.  I know he has flareups and had days when he ached and felt just crummy.  Yes, @Latestarter  you definitely need to be tested for Lyme as @greybeard  suggested.


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## Rammy

Good idea.


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## Baymule

If it is Lyme, @Devonviolet has it and finally treated herself. She is our go-to Lady of Healing!

ETA: When I pull a tick off me, I put it in a ziplock bag, date it and put it in the freezer. Much easier to test the tick.


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## Latestarter

Thanks again all. I hear you and I'm doing what I can as I need. I'm not avoiding the oxy as much. took another last night. Prob gonna take another here shortly and lift the feet and ice the hands/wrists. Big weather change @6:45am... horizontal rain and rapid temp drop. Before that was ~73 and 80% humidity, no wind & I had to have the AC on to keep from bed sweats. After that was a LOT of wind, rain and wow... it is now 42° so over a 30 degree drop in ~ 5 hours. Supposed to be down to 24° tonight, then 30 tomorrow night with chance of sleet, then back to above freezing temps. Got chilly out doing animal chores. While I was dropping their pellets into their bowls a pack of coyotes lit off sounded like right inside the woods at my back corner. LF started howling back. Mel paid them no attention. Guess he knew they weren't a threat. OK, outta here.


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## greybeard

The same cool weather just hit here, windy and slightly rainy. Temp dropped 12 degrees in a matter of 5 minutes. It was 80 yesterday, going to be 36 tonight and a high of 48 tomorrow. So warm Tuesday, I went fishing and caught 2 bass at the pond. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.


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## Bruce

B&B Happy goats said:


> i detest taking any pain med period. I don't  like the way they make me feel, but when pain level gets so out of control and is maxing signals to your pain receptior in your brain, you need to take the meds, to bring everything  back to a semi normal  functionl base to work from.


I hear you. But given what Percocet does to my head, I'd see if they had something else to offer first. I'd be bedridden the entire time I was on Percocet, can't function when your brain in not inside anymore.



farmerjan said:


> Or god forbid, LUPUS?


Is lupus painful? My Dad's aunt had it as long as I knew her which was 31 years. She was in a wheelchair but still did all the cooking and laundry and such. I recall her fingers being bent up but I don't remember her having pain. Of course we only saw her a few times a year so there could have been plenty of bad days I never knew about.


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## Devonviolet

Yes, it could be any of a number of things, including Lyme, Lupus, Mold, gout.

The best way to improve ones health is to build up the immune system, and for someone with your dietary history, you are starting at the right place . . . Eating a healthy diet (hopefully low carb). Good Job, LS!!!


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## Latestarter

It's down another 10 degrees at 32. Wind has backed off some, but not a whole lot. wind chill is already low 20s. Not bothering Mel though. He has his arctic fur on and just lays down, closes his eyes and dreams... Well I know he knows where the shelter is, and can and will use it. Bully for him!  Heck of a front line... Extends from NY state all the way back down here into TX.


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## CntryBoy777

That roller-coaster weather sure isn't kind to any of us as we age....I never stop thinking of the "fun" I thought I was having then....and how the definition of "fun" has changed for me now....


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## Baymule

It's dadgum cold here! I spread another bale of pine shavings in the sheep shelter and closed them up. The two new lambs are doing good, just want to make sure their mommas keep them warm and snuggly tonight. Winter took a week off, but it's back now. 

Joe, I know your goats are loving their new barn in this weather!


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## Mike CHS

We are supposed to be down to 20 tomorrow morning and I'm glad all of the current batch of lambs are fat and sassy.


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## frustratedearthmother

A/C yesterday - heater tonight...


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## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> A/C yesterday - heater tonight...


Same here.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

It was 70 on the front porch when we got up at 5:15.  By 7 it was 45.  By 8 it was 34.  By the time I left to go to Fort Smith at noon, it was 28 and snow dusted the mountains around here.


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## Latestarter

Reading 23° right now... Thankful no real wind. Supposed to get to 42... we'll see.


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## B&B Happy goats

Fog here


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## Rammy

You sure that fog isnt in your head?  Just kidding!!


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## B&B Happy goats

Rammy said:


> You sure that fog isnt in your head?  Just kidding!!


There  is more than fog going on in my head...its a dang hail storm...and if they can't  find out what the hail is going on , then i just won't  listen to them


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## Bruce

Everyone is on the temperature roller coaster! Mid 40s now, will be 6° at 6 AM tomorrow.


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## Latestarter

They said 42° today & I didn't believe it. They've now lowered that expected high to 39°... Already 2:24pm so temp isn't going any higher today and is sitting at 33° Just trying to force myself to finish my first food of the day... 2 pieces of toast with butter and a fruit bar. Just not hungry, no desire to eat. No desire or energy to cook or prepare something. Took some turkey & gravy out of the freezer and plan to force myself to have some of that either later this evening or tomorrow. I am forcing fluids though... Not doing the renal failure thing again. Mostly watered down tea, plain water, and power aid.

Sorry folks but not feeling up to trying to catch up on the 117 alerts I presently have. Not clearing them... I will get back to them at some point near term.


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## Rammy

You know, its only an 8 hour drive from Tn to Tx.


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## Bruce

It is Friday, hit the road Rammy! Take the poor man some chicken soup.


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## Rammy

He wouldnt give me his address. Being a typical man.....


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## Bruce

Bay and Devon have been to his place, ask them (but don't tell Joe I told you to do that). And actually, if you want to dredge into this journal I think maybe the real estate listing was shown. Now YOU gotta find it before he does and deletes the post


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## Rammy




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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Bay and Devon have been to his place, ask them (but don't tell Joe I told you to do that). And actually, if you want to dredge into this journal I think maybe the real estate listing was shown. Now YOU gotta find it before he does and deletes the post


I think those links may have gone "poof" already.
https://www.backyardherds.com/threa...ngs-musings-gripes-and-grumbles.33505/page-33


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## greybeard

Regarding your health Joe. You think the bite from an unknown insect you got on one of your hands while cleaning up your previous domicile in 2016 may be relevant now? As I recall, it became swollen and red.


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I think those links may have gone "poof" already.
> https://www.backyardherds.com/threa...ngs-musings-gripes-and-grumbles.33505/page-33


Looks that way. @Rammy will just have to bribe @Baymule and/or @Devonviolet ... or make an offer they can't refuse


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## Rammy

Like bringing RJ down in my new car? Haha!


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## Latestarter

Enough folks. Thanks, but no visitors.


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## Rammy




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## Bruce

OK, sorry you are feeling so crappy


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## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> Enough folks. Thanks, but no visitors.


I know you well enough to know that you don't like to impose on anybody. We are only 45 minutes away, if you need help, we will be there. We'll do whatever you need done, then shutup and go away. Don't let pride get in the way.


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## CntryBoy777

It will probably take a little bit for your body to adjust to the new changes ya are incorporating along with the meds, but it should plane out for ya and start getting better at some point...it is difficult to see/hear of one that is so cared about having to endure those periods....just know that ya have a "Herd" of individuals pulling for your betterment and a speedy recovery.....


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## RollingAcres

Poor LS, I really hope you get some relieve soon from this pain.


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## B&B Happy goats

I keep doing a drive by to see if your up and about, almost out of gas...can ya stick your hand out the window so we know your ok ?...just a hand  not even a full sentence  needed ....


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## CntryBoy777

Hope ya are feeling a bit better Joe!!....ya still have plenty that support and care about ya.....


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## RollingAcres

What @CntryBoy777 said!


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## B&B Happy goats

X3


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## Rammy

X4


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter,

I really hope you are getting better.  You have so many friends and fans here on BYH and other places that want the best for you. 

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Devonviolet

X2


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## Bruce

Anyone here that has @Latestarter's phone number been in contact with him? He's been MIA since Saturday, I'm getting a bit worried.


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## B&B Happy goats

I miss him, he was the first person who came to my goat rescue when I joined BYH, He sounded the alarm and the herd came a running to the rescue.....PLEASE get better and let us know you are ok...


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## Rammy

I do. Not sure if he would be happy I called. Im getting worried, too.


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## RollingAcres

Maybe @CntryBoy777 can give him a quick call or text. I think he has LS's number.


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## Baymule

I just sent him a text. I’ll let y’all know.


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## greybeard

I called. It went straight to voicemail after 1 ring. Usually means the recipient of the call is:
on another call...or
has phone turned off...or
cell phone service not currently available..or.
battery not charged...or
not taking calls.

I left a message.


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## CntryBoy777

I left a voicemail....so, we'll see


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## Devonviolet

I have been in contact with Latestarter. He says to tell you, that he appreciates everyone. Please give him until early next week to explain.  

Thanks everyone.  It’s heartwarming how much y’all care.


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## Rammy

Devonviolet said:


> I have been in contact with Latestarter. He says to tell you, that he appreciates everyone. Please give him until early next week to explain.
> 
> Thanks everyone.  It’s heartwarming how much y’all care.




Thanks for letting us know.


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## Goat Whisperer

I'm glad to hear LS is okay! I think everyone was a bit worried.


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## Baymule

What @Devonviolet said.


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## Bruce

Thanks @Devonviolet. At least we know he is alive. I think he already knows we all care. We can handle waiting, or no explanation at all, as long as we know he is OK.


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## B&B Happy goats

Yepper ...what Bruce said


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## RollingAcres

Thank you @Baymule @greybeard @CntryBoy777 for calling LS. Thank you @Devonviolet for the update.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter, sir,

We are all glad to know that you are OK.  We will wait for word on what has been behind your absence.  

Thanks to all the others who reached out to him.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## FRED DESANTIS

Latestarter,
I am not sure where you are located,I am in North Texas about 15 miles Northeast of Greenville. Let me know if there is anything I can do for you.


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## Mini Horses

So glad you answered Devonviolet….No explanation needed -- you're sick!   BUT -  we are all able to run to the barn an check on "our" sickies, except you  --  you were not in our barns!!!  


Hope you ARE doing better.   A least we know there wasn't any SSS.


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## Bruce

FRED DESANTIS said:


> Latestarter,
> I am not sure where you are located,I am in North Texas about 15 miles Northeast of Greenville. Let me know if there is anything I can do for you.


LS lives in Mt. Pleasant so about 80 miles by road.
Very nice of you to offer help! When last heard from he was asking for no help.


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## farmerjan

I too am glad that there has been contact.  It is the not knowing that is upsetting for people that are located too far away to call or stop by to see if you need anything.  Hope you are feeling better.  Looking forward to an update.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Latestarter, sir,

How are you doing now?  Have things resolved themselves so that you can come up for air?

Senile Texas Aggie


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## B&B Happy goats

Was thinking of you and thought i would send you a herd sentiment. ....know you are loved


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## frustratedearthmother

You've got a whole lot of people thinking about you and wishing you well!


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## Rammy

Second that. Hope everythings ok. Check in and let us know soon.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Hope you're doing better Joe...


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## Devonviolet

It is with great sadness that I announce that last evening our friend, Joe, passed away.  

I have begun a tribute to Joe on a new thread.

Tribute to Latestarter

Please go to that post, to add any thoughts or memories about our friend, and do not post anymore, here on Latestarter’s journal.


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