# Anyone know this breed?   Dog  not goats



## goats&moregoats (Oct 13, 2014)




----------



## OneFineAcre (Oct 13, 2014)

Very serious looking dog


----------



## goatgurl (Oct 14, 2014)

don't know what kind he is but do know he looks serious about his job.


----------



## babsbag (Oct 14, 2014)

Is he supposed to be an LGD breed?  If so my guess would be a Sarplaninac mixed with a short hair breed, perhaps a toil?  The coloring is like a Sarplaninac but they are usually big fluff balls.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Oct 14, 2014)

Yes she is suppose to be a LGD breed...however owner claims that she is a Pyrenees: She can't be a true Pyrenees. The person has puppies and says that both the female( in the picture)and the male are full blood Pyrenees. She says male is all white. Which according to all I have heard and seen they are white and may have a little bit of markings.


----------



## BrownSheep (Oct 14, 2014)

Looks like a GP mix...GP's can have markings and masks but like you said not to that extent. Maybe some other farm breed that has merle as a common color.


----------



## babsbag (Oct 14, 2014)

She could be pyr and Sarplaninac but still not sure the coat is fluffy enough. She could be pyr and Aussie for that matter, but I am not convinced she is 100% Pyr. However there is a website that  talks about black pyrs so IDK, maybe gray would be an option too. All the ones I have seen are white or white with some patches of other colors.

http://bar6diamondranch.com/lgdsinfobackpyr.html


----------



## Southern by choice (Oct 14, 2014)

LOL I thought it looked like a Pyr that got all dirty in the face. 
Could be a shar/pyr.

Pyrs can have heavy markings.  He looks all white but the head so IDK.
Could be the badger markings were just heavy and concentrated around the head. More than 1/3 markings on the body is disqualification.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Oct 14, 2014)

babsbag


babsbag said:


> She could be pyr and Sarplaninac but still not sure the coat is fluffy enough. She could be pyr and Aussie for that matter, but I am not convinced she is 100% Pyr. However there is a website that  talks about black pyrs so IDK, maybe gray would be an option too. All the ones I have seen are white or white with some patches of other colors.
> 
> http://bar6diamondranch.com/lgdsinfobackpyr.html



She does resemble a few of the dogs pictured on that site, so I suppose it is possible. TY for the link.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Oct 14, 2014)

Whatever breed she is, she's a fine looking animal


----------



## Baymule (Oct 14, 2014)

@goats&moregoats are you getting a puppy from her?


----------



## goats&moregoats (Oct 17, 2014)

@Baymule    I am deeply considering getting two. Why do you ask? Still in the thinking about it stage. I have talked with her on the phone a bit.


----------



## Baymule (Oct 17, 2014)

I asked because I think that is a very nice looking dog, pure breed or not. Pyrs wrap around your heart!


----------



## purplequeenvt (Oct 17, 2014)

@goats&moregoats, where are you in VT? I'm near Burlington. 

Is this dog in VT? I'm always on the lookout for other LGD people in VT.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Oct 18, 2014)

@purplequeenvt , yes she is in Vermont. Not a regular breeder and no papers for the dogs.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Oct 18, 2014)

I have decided that I am reserving two puppies. I want males, but since I have no LGD's, I will take either or both sexes.


----------



## goatgurl (Oct 20, 2014)

@goats&moregoats  everyone has a different opinion but i have found that a pair, male and female seem to have worked  best for me.  i spay and neuter.


----------



## Southern by choice (Oct 20, 2014)

I agree opposite sex pairing are best. 
I am not a fan of spay or neuter though. If one really feels the need then waiting til 2 years is best as it affects the growth plates as well as makes a large breed dog more prone to hip dysplasia.

When pairing it is ideal to have a watcher and a patroller. 
Hopefully the breeder will have some clue as to how to evaluate.
Best evaluations of LGD pups are 10-12 weeks but by 8 weeks there is a good deal to see. 

Oh... I am excited for you! 

When will you be getting them?


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 2, 2014)

@Southern by choice ,    suppose to be around Christmas time, but questioning the deal. First and foremost they are letting them go at six weeks. Sounded to early. Another person on craigslist is letting hers go now at 5 weeks. They sent pics of the last litter they had, they definitely look like the black and whites on the link that @babsbag sent me.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 2, 2014)

Many will have black at birth but fades as they grow.

Most states have laws regarding how young a pup can go.
Many states it is 8 weeks, but there are those that allow 6wks.
5 weeks is just STUPID! Sorry for the harsh language but no other way to put it. The only time this is acceptable is if the dam is having problems and pups are being bottle fed or dam died etc.

I am also adamantly opposed to 6 weeks for a LGD.

A breeder (if you can call them that) that wants to push a pup out that soon could care less about those pups. They will not have any shots given and I highly doubt they would even bother to do any deworming.

A puppy should have at least *2* Distemper/parvo vaccines (we prefer 5-way, not 7 or 9 ways) before leaving the breeder and a minimum *2* dewormings. The rest of the vaccines and deworming should be followed through by the purchaser.

You cannot properly evaluate any pup at 5-6 weeks.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 2, 2014)

@Southern by choice , I suppose I should write to them and find out why they are sending them out at 6 weeks, if they are adamant about doing so, then I feel I should withdraw my name from the list and the person on craigslist was flagged, found out about that way early this morning.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 2, 2014)

You are in a region where there aren't many LGD's and the breeders that are there are pricey. That has led to many people thinking they can make a buck by having litters. 
NOT saying these people are, just that this is happening in your region. Personally if a person doesn't have a passion for the breed and doesn't bother to learn how to place their pups for the most appropriate environment I don't think they should breed. 

I also don't think LGD's should be out of the average farmers reach expense wise. That is just me though... I rather see a farmer be able to protect their livestock and have a great dog in the field. If a dog (pup) is $1000 one would have to lose a lot of livestock to justify the cost of that one dog. A trained dog is different because that dog has been given all health care, dewormed and fed all that time as well as trained for poultry and livestock etc. Pups do eat ALOT of food til about 8 months. You will feel like all you do is buy feed.  Then, like a switch was flipped they just stop... many are taken aback by this and think something is wrong. Once they hit that point these gentle giant/fierce guardians eat very little.

A pup at that age obviously cannot guard and many precautions will need to be made. They will need to actually be protected from livestock still. You will need a pen adjacent to livestock that is either 2x4 wire or chain link. Pups cans squeeze through a cattle panel and field fencing in a second. 
Doesn't hurt to call and ask why selling so young.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 2, 2014)

This is the answer I got back:

these pups are ready at around 6 wks. old and if they are going to a working home the sooner they get with goats or sheep the easer to train. I will make sure that are eating hard food also that's around the time mom is sick of them and will not let them eat as much I am on puppies when ever we have them to be sure they are all healthy and so on and wormed. thanks Bob

I really want I LGD, but I want to do this right by the puppies to and I know that any other puppy I would not take at 6 weeks. I didn't know if it was a bit different because they are such a large breed.  On the phone they told me they would be with the goats from a few days after she gave birth. They said they bring her in for labor and delivery, then move her and babies to an enclosure within the goat pen. This e-mail doesn't make it sound that way. So I guess I will stick with my gut feeling and take my name off the list.  I do have a 10x8 chain link dog pen waiting inside my goat pen for when ever I do get a LGD or LGD's


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 2, 2014)

Most of us raise our pups with livestock yes, but at that age and without momma who is there to protect them?

Lil pups can get stepped on, butted, rammed, escape, and get into all kinds of trouble.  It does not make them guard any earlier or better.  Not every pup out of every litter will be best for every environment. 

Pups that can stay with parent stock for as long as possible are learning much more and are generally much quicker to guard.
Our 3 pups are 6 1/2 months old now. Eliza, my female is ready for her job. She is the first one to go out when she hears anything, first to the fenceline... puts her 2 brothers to shame LOL. There are so many things they learn from parent stock. We keep our pups to 12 weeks for that reason and because they are best evaluated at 8-10 weeks. Noise testing, temperament, evaluating for environment etc.
I think many that breed LGD's do not have any canine background and don't really know how to evaluate. I am not knocking them but at the same time the owner in the end has to deal with "whatever" they get. 

 I have an old thread that has lots of pics and evals from Amy's first litter... this starts on page  8 and goes through the end of the thread. I think... but as you scroll through the pages you will see parents and imprinting as well as what we are looking for in evaluating.
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/minnie-blurb-pup-3-pics.27247/page-8#post-350243

for bigger pics and a better explanation the same plus more are on my website here- http://www.winginitfarms.com/imprinting

Hope this helps in understanding a little more.


----------



## babsbag (Nov 2, 2014)

I let my pups go at 8 weeks, but I would never let them go any earlier. They are just babies even at 8 weeks. I had one last year until he was about 12 weeks old, so much better.

My pups are born in the barn, but they are not with the goats until they figure out how to get through the stock panels on their own at about 7 weeks. And even then I panic; so many goat feet and such little babies. My goats won't butt them (I don't think) but they wouldn't hesitate to step on them.

I sell my pups for 250-300. I don't do it to get rich, I do it because there is a need for good dogs. They are not registered, far from it. Both parents are a mix of different LGD breeds. I like them that way.

@Southern by choice ... she knows her dogs and most of what I have learned has been from her. Take her advice to heart and go with your gut.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 2, 2014)

Thank you all for your support and knowledge. I have never had a LGD and I do not want to mess this up. To costly for pups and goats. I will try to be patient about this. I am sure I will find the right LGD for me and my little herd. Lots of prayers going on here. @Southern by choice  getting caught up in all your pictures.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks @babsbag  and that is a key point you make... there is a need and I know you care very much about your pups and where they go. 
I see it as a service to the farming community. It realy is a labor of love to raise the pups and place each one. 

@goats&moregoats  you cannot go wrong when you pray and ask the Lord to provide what it is He has for you.  When we first were looking to add the LGD's to the farm I was looking at Anatolians and the Kuvasz mostly because I had worked with them about 20+ years earlier and knew the breeds better. But the Lord opened another door for us completely unexpected. I was also looking for females, not males. I went to visit a neighbor that had pyr pups, she said just come by and see them and you pray about it. 
Wellllll... we came home with "D" and the breeder called us a few days  later asking us if we would like Badger too. We went back and got him. LOL 
PYRS and MALES. 
They have been an incredible blessing and I simply cannot imagine life without them. Not long after came Amy (f-pyr) and Callie (f-toli) and now this year Arkados (Tiggs a male toli pup) has been added.

That is also how we place our pups too. We know the Lord will bring the family that is meant for the pup.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 2, 2014)

Have you thought about a rescue dog? MsDeb posted her dream dog list, and she got one!

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/unrealistic-dog-wish-list.29766/


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 2, 2014)

@Baymule , I am working with one rescue group now. Not sure where I am at with that. Waiting for an e-mail. Just wanted a pup as well and thought if I got the two older ones and brought the pup in  at a little later date they could help teach the little one.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 2, 2014)

I wish you the best and hope things work out for you!


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 2, 2014)

Baymule said:


> I wish you the best and hope things work out for you!


Thank you so very much. I have looked for Anatolian Shepherds as well. They were actually my first breed of choice, but can't find anything close to VT. Did inquire about one through a rescue, but the day the man returned my call she was being placed on a farm in hopes that it worked out. Good for her that it apparently did.


----------



## purplequeenvt (Nov 3, 2014)

When I was looking for an LGD last spring, I found a litter up in the NEK (Northeast Kingdom - an area near the Canadian border). I was emailing with the owner and I started asking too many questions apparently because he stopped replying. I took that as a sign to move on. I eventually found my Mira 6+ hours away in NY. I got my male, Murphy from a friend in KY in December. I will probably breed them next time Mira comes into heat (sometime around Feb/Mar). Mainly because I NEED more LGDs, but also to help local farmers in need of good dogs. There is a shortage of affordable LGDs in VT.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 4, 2014)

I may be calling on you in the near future then.


----------



## goatboy1973 (Nov 4, 2014)

I believe the dog might be a Pyr/ Australian Shepherd (possibly the blue merle color). This is actually a common accidental cross being that a great number use Aussies to herd their livestock and Pyrs to guard their livestock and sometimes... well...chicka chicka  bow wow and before you know it, a litter of confused pups, "Do we chase em' or do we guard them?" LOL!!!


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 5, 2014)

Update: You just have to see these pictures!   I am getting the two GP from the rescue, just confirmed this morning. I can pick them up on the 14th. These two are just beautiful!!!!!  Yukon(male) & Tahoe(female). The 14th can't get here soon enough!


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 5, 2014)

Congratulations!

I notice the one is chained to the gate. 
What kind of history were you able to get on the pair?


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 5, 2014)

@Southern by choice,

Just recently chained so I am told. They had been working right up until a month ago. Was told goats, sheep & chickens and been exposed to cows. Man got sick had to sell livestock and move out. Then dogs got chained near chicken coop to help protect the chickens, but also so they wouldn't wander with no work to do and no one there. The farmers daughter feeds and waters them but that is all.  They are being turned over to a women who works with Rescue Me.org   North East on Tuesday. They daughter of the farmer is suppose to be giving her all their paper work and vet records. The rescue women is just over the line in NH, but dogs were in Corinth Vermont. One is 6 and one is 7 and as far as I know they have been with this family since puppy hood.

I am writing Deb to see if she can get a list of commands that they are use to/know, so as I can stay on the same track..leave it, down, here/come, stay etc. Both in good health, Deb is going to bath them and clean up their coats a bit.

I believe if @purplequeenvt breeds hers in the late winter then I want to add a puppy to the mix, if all goes well. Meaning if I don't mess up.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 6, 2014)

They are beautiful!! And they sound like just what you need. Awesome looking dogs. I am happy for you and happy for the dogs too! They are getting a great home!


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 6, 2014)

@Baymule , why Thank you so very much.


----------



## bonbean01 (Nov 6, 2014)




----------



## babsbag (Nov 7, 2014)

What a gorgeous pair of dogs, they will be so happy to have a life again and someone to guard and to love on them. I hate seeing any dog chained. I bet the next week will just drag for all of you.

If you get a puppy from @purplequeenvt next spring you will be getting a good pup; well bred and well cared for.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 7, 2014)

goats&moregoats said:


> @Baymule , why Thank you so very much.


You are so very welcome!


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 7, 2014)

So happy to see  some of the rescues actually are willing to place LGD's in LGD environments. 
We don't have that here in our region. 

It is wonderful to see these dogs placed. 

Many of the ads for re-homing pyr's, here in our region, are because of "issues". Chasing, biting, all the things a person doesn't want in a LGD. The other issue is many sell them at 6-8 weeks, no parent  stock or imprinting and the "breeders" tell the new owners to stick them in the field and they will "know" what to do.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 7, 2014)

Deb, the women that helps with the rescue got her LGD's through this recue as well and hers were GP's too . Unfortunately she just lost one a couple of weeks ago due to kidney failure.       14th hurry along please, says part of me, then the part that really dislikes cold weather is like nooooooooooo.


So do all LGD's require a hotwire to keep them in the pastures?


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 7, 2014)

No.  But it is good to train LGD's to hotwire.

We have hard fencing in most places. No issues...dogs do not climb or try to dig out. That is all 8 of them. There rae areas we have that are not hard fenced and just have hotwire only as well as other areas that we have to move hotwire  through acres of woods to rotate the meat goats...  having dogs respect hotwire means you can put them anywhere you want them.

Unfortunately, there are some LGD's that will dig or climb. If a dog is doing this then adding hotwire is best.


----------



## babsbag (Nov 7, 2014)

I had a hotwire before the dogs so they were trained by default. I never saw any sign of digging until I opened up a new area of my property with no hotwire. The dogs knew that and there was a little space under the fence in one area and little miss Houdini dog decided that she needed to follow the coyote scent and out she went. Fortunately she came back. I put hot wire on the new fence and no more digging. They totally respect that wire.

Many of my friends that have GPs have problems with them roaming. One friend lives next to an airport and she would get calls that her dog was on the tarmac again.   She had to rehome that one. Another one that she had hung himself on a fence post when he tried to get over to chase the coyotes. Mine don't wear collars because of that story. I like the hotwire.


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma (Nov 7, 2014)

Congrats on the dogs!  That's great news!


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 11, 2014)

Update:  Tahoe and Yukon are with Deb as of today. They will travel with Deb to Rutland on Friday, where I will meet Deb and another goatie in the area for lunch. Then Tahoe and Yukon will travel with me to my little farm and be introduced to everyone, before being placed in their temporary pen/shelter inside the goat pen. VERY VERY EXCITED!!!  Then I received a call from the people with the puppies that arrived in the world today. He is sending me pictures tomorrow. I will send a deposit to ensure I get to choose one when they are 8 weeks.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 11, 2014)

Waiting with you!


----------



## Baymule (Nov 12, 2014)

*YAHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
COUNTDOWN TO FRIDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Nov 12, 2014)

So exciting!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I know this wait has to be awful


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 12, 2014)

I know right! 
I was thinking about them today!


----------



## goatgurl (Nov 12, 2014)

so excited for you, it seems like a long time till friday


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 14, 2014)

Update: Yukon & Tahoe: 

Unfortunately a few snags cropped up for all of us that were meeting this morning. So arrangements were made for the meeting to take place next Friday.  I did however glean a bit more information.  Dogs are up to date on shots, spayed & neutered. Very loving and willing to please. They do not walk well on a leash. So I can see ( and it's ok by me ) that my time waiting for kids to arrive will be spent working with these two huge love bugs.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 14, 2014)

We can't wait! So excited for you. They sound tailor made for you!


----------



## goats&moregoats (Nov 14, 2014)

Once I get them, there will be pictures, pictures & more pictures!!  I am soooooooooooooooooo excited and can't wait to meet Deb as well.


----------



## CJR (Dec 7, 2014)

goats&moregoats said:


> View attachment 5234


Maybe a Pyr cross with a Caucasian Ovcharkas. Pips has some great pics on the LGD breed page http://www.backyardherds.com/thread...d-page-project-need-pictures-too.13805/page-2.
I just stumbled over the breed last week & added them to my "dream homestead".


----------



## Latestarter (Mar 3, 2015)

Last post Dec 7th... left hanging here... what ever happened with Yukon and Tahoe? or the puppy you were going to add to the mix? 

Edited to say I found the journal! Now I can find out "the rest of the story!"


----------



## Vossfarm (Sep 2, 2015)

Pups should not be rehomed until 9 weeks, an LGD should stay with parents and stock until 12 or even 15 weeks. I have always rehomed my pups at 12 to 15 weeks or even later. They have much better success in their new homes that way. I recently felt bad for a pup and bought her at 5 weeks, she's been a disaster, she had mange, uti, she has behavioral issues and socialization problems. My experiences with her just further cemented my belief that these noble animals should not be seperate feom their pack until they're well established as individuals.


----------



## goats&moregoats (Sep 2, 2015)

@Vossfarm : I didn't get those pups. I have a person I am getting to GP pups from when they are between 12-15 weeks of age, raised with goats and chickens.


----------

