# Concerned About My Goat



## dcphotos (Jan 27, 2011)

Hello,

I am a newbie goat owner. I bought my first goat 3 months ago and she has been a rather happy and quite loving, goofy and entertaining member of our family until about a week ago. It seems to come and go, but she is somewhat listless and appears weak at times. This morning she was sleeping in the barn when I went outside and didn't get up until I brought food. Every other day she gets up when she hears me coming and runs into the stall where I store food as soon as I open the door, climbs the tractor, eats chicken food and goes bananas. But for the past few days she is just unconcerned with everything. I know it's probably just a thing but my wife and I are a little concerned so I'm seeking advice.
My wife is a small animal vet but has no experience with goats. We will check her temperature this evening. 
On food we feed vitality 12 twice a day and she has hay. She eats some leaves, grass is not growing right now. Local tempature has been in the high 20s-low 30s at night and around 40 during the day and we have had rain.
She lives in a pen she shares with a miniature donkey, they hang out and tolerate one another but we often think she wants another goat around. We plan on getting another goat but want to wait until we finish building more fencing so the pasture space is increased.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 27, 2011)

What kind of goat, how old?


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## Dreaming Of Goats (Jan 27, 2011)

From what I've heard, chicken feed is poisonous for goats, so make sure she doesn't have ANY more of that!!! You should REALLY get her  goat friend, because goats are herd animals..... That's all I've got, maybe an expert will chime in soon


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 27, 2011)

It's not that chicken feed is poisonous, but goats can over eat it causing acidosis.  Acidosis is when too much concentrated feed is consumed. The rumen bacteria go hog wild and digest it extremely quickly, which upsets the balance and pH of the rumen.  

I'd make sure she can't eat any more chicken feed.  Offer hay only for a day or two (or until she's acting normal).  Keep an eye out for bloat (her left side will be high and tight).  You can drench her w/ baking soda water if you think that's what happened.  Definitely take her temp.


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## dcphotos (Jan 27, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> What kind of goat, how old?


She is a Nubian, I'd have to look at the papers but I think she is 14 months at this point. 

She did stick her head in a bag of scratch feed yesterday, I will put all that off limits. I need her to get this smile back:


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 27, 2011)

just some hay for a couple days, if she seems to really be suffering you can give her a baking soda drench.


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## dcphotos (Jan 27, 2011)

She doesn't seem to be suffering, she just isn't her normal self. This goat is usually hyper and happy with tail wagging, lately she's not into things. I might be over-reacting, not sure.


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## jodief100 (Jan 27, 2011)

Is she peeing and pooing normally?  Has she been checked for worms?


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## KellyHM (Jan 27, 2011)

Check her conjunctiva...it should be bright pink.  If it is white pink or white she may have a heavy parasite load.  I would definitely deworm her just in case.  Panacur (fenbendazole) is good and your wife should have that at work.


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## dcphotos (Jan 27, 2011)

Yes my wife already suggested de-worming immediately, I will pass on the drug name. She has friends that work with large animals but nobody where she works has experience with them.
We are worried we have gotten her sick over feeding. We mis-communicated last night and both animals were fed twice, she gave Annie a handful of chicken scratch and when I was putting grain in the food bowls she had her head buried in a bag of layer pellets. Then they got big helpings this morning.


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## babsbag (Jan 27, 2011)

Before you jump in with deworming have your wife do a fecal. It is the same as for a cat or dog. I am always very cautious about worming any animal if they don't feel well. It really is poison you are giving them so why do it when they are sick with something unrelated to worms. IMO

I had a kid last year that adored chicken feed. She would go through the pop door on her knees to get to it. Finally had to resort to a hot wire to keep her out.

Like others have said, feeding hay only is really the best you can do for her. 

It may be the feed, but it also may be that she is just lonely. They don't like to be alone. Even my buck has a wether for company. But watch her closely for bloat, with goats things can change...FAST. 

Most of my friends give alfalfa hay and minerals free choice and no grain unless they are milking. I feed about 1 cup of grain a day to my does just to shut them up, and to entice them to eat their minerals. It is different for lactating does. They will gradually get closer to 8 cups +/- of grain (I should weigh it) a day as they approach kidding, but I increase it gradually. No sudden changes in feed for goats. 

Hope she is ok and just lonely.


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## dcphotos (Jan 28, 2011)

Last night her heart rate was between 95-100 and her temp was 99.7. Stomach sounded good. I will suggest the fecal. 

She seemed to be in better spirits, she ate some hay and was only allowed a minimal amount(handful) of grain. I walked her some but she really hates going around the yard at night until she gets around a lighted area, tomorrow she will get out and about.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 28, 2011)

I would stop feeding your goat chicken feed...!! Important!!!

A goat is not a chicken and the minerals etc are all wrong for a goat.  Which will throw them off balance metabolically.  Which can be big issues for them.  

Improper feeding can cause goat polio.  Which can kill them if not treated. 
Its important to feed them accordingly...and sudden changes can cause major issues for them...and you will hear in this thread time and time again.."Introduce feed changes slowly in goats"  Its really important.  Even if a goat is severely undernurished etc...it should be done slowly.

If she is not acting right I would get a fecal done..since your wife works at a vets be sure to check for wormload BEFORE worming.  You should worm AS NEEDED for the right worm and not rountinely...and get some thiamine (B complex) shots into her!!  

What happens when you throw them off is they do not produce thiamine and get Goat Polio...very dangerous.  So I would get her on a balance goat feed and give her a quality hay and access to loose GOAT minerals...and remove her from accessing the chicken feed!  If shes has access to a browes this time of year for you! Great...if not...feed her as a goat should be feed.  

Alot of people think goats can eat anything...but that is just not true.  They have a sensative metolbolic system and need certain  feed ratios and minerals to be healthy.

If she is not acting like herself and is a bit off..spacey...stareing off...not attentive etc.  I would get her some B Complex/Thiamine very soon...this could be the begining signs of goat polio.  

Good luck...I hope shes jumping around soon enough for you!!!  But please look into goat nutrition for certain!!! It is really important!!   

PS As for the lonliness??  We'll in my expirence..even after having them lose a close herd member.  They always ate and their eating habbits stayed the same.  Soooo I tend to doubt its lonliness.  And if its bloat..you would generally not hear good ruman sounds and her left side would probally be extended and hard.  So I would not drench the rumen with baking soda..unless you suspect bloat issues.   IMO

Again...good luck...just needed to add that after reading the other post!!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 28, 2011)

Just an added note...behavioral changes in goats (animals) are almost always signs that there is something wrong with them.  Illness wise etc.

Animals do not express emotions like humans...so thinking she was'nt eating becuase she was lonley is really not accurate.  You should always look for something like illness, wormload..etc..etc.

In my expirence I have learned to Not put human emotions into animals behavoir.  We are very differant!  

I have found when they are off feed, not being themselves etc...its not emotions they are trying to express..there has always been something wrong in way of illness etc...

Good luck with her!!!  Just trying to help.  Being new to goats you will have to master the guessing games they put us through sometimes when they get sick...it can drive you nuts trying to fiqure it out sometimes.  But get emotions out of the mix is important.  Cause I find it just throws a wrench in it!!!


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## helmstead (Jan 28, 2011)

A low temp usually points directly at entero...


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 28, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> A low temp usually points directly at entero...


Entero and goat polio's early symtoms can definately resemble eachother for sure.  

But the low temp could also be a disruption in the flora in the rumen with lower temps around too????  She needs that rumen running good to keep temps up.

Hard saying???  Has she been vacinated????  and how old is she????


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## dcphotos (Jan 31, 2011)

Update: We stopped letting her eat the chicken scratch and cut the grain down to just a cup twice a day. She sure isn't happy about that but felt better the next day. The weather really turned Saturday also, it was almost 70 and sunny and she was in rare form. 

The donkey still gets more grain than she does. For the first time since we have had her I saw her show some aggression, she actually rammed Pinot(donkey) to get at his food bowl, he never lets that happen.


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## dcphotos (Jan 31, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> helmstead said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She came with papers and everything, I will check to see what vaccinations were listed. The people we bought her from seemed to really know their stuff and are members of the goat association. 

Her temp was 99.7, that isn't concernedly low is it? I will ask Mary to check it again tonight, she said it was quite a task. She is 14 months old.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 31, 2011)

Anything under 100 degree's I would be concerned if it were my goat.  

Temps for goats should run 101.5 to 103.5.   So I would be looking for issues.  If the temp of 99.7 is accurate.

You stated it was an ordeal to do it...but its important to get an accurate reading.  You may have to tie her or both hold her..or do what you gotta do to get an accuate reading.

Could mean alot...low blood sugars, entero (as stated)  etc etc etc...

Keep us informed after the other temp reading is done.  

I can not recomend more to back off the overfeeding of grains and chicken feeds etc...overeating grains, starches etc can cause huge issues.  And Entero is one of them....and it will kill her.  

Entero can come from over consuming of grains, certain pastures, high starches etc...These are all areas beside soils where this bacteria can reside.  And if shes over eating this the toxin will store in her and give her serious issues.  And it is an extremley painful and horrid death for them...not good!!      Seriously!!

Please read more on Entero and goat nutrition.  They have a sensitive metobolic system.  Although its cute when they get into things and its fun to watch them eat and feed them...it can be deterimental if you not careful.  

Im not trying to scare you...so dont freak out...just trying to inform you.  Over feeding goats and quick changes can cause huge issues.  And I think its better to tell you than have you kick yourself in your butt later.

Keep us informed!  Glad to hear you brought the feed rations down!! Great to hear!!!


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## emilypaonia (Feb 1, 2011)

This is a bit off subject, and may not be directly involved with your problem, but my ears perked up when you said you have her in with a mini donkey.

I have goats and was very interested in getting mini donkeys.  However, in my research I came across a few websites that said that many a goat owner had called them (people who sold them mini-donkeys) very upset because the mini donkey KILLED their goat(s)!!!! Oh my!  I found this information from a few different sources and alas, I decided against the mini donkeys.  Apparently, they play in such a way that can break a goats neck, pretty easily.  Anyone else ever heard of this? So when you write that your goatie is even ramming him - oh no!  What if he strikes back!  Just my opinion, but I would keep them separate and get her a goat friend.  Goat needs goat friends.

Also, I agree with everyone else, keep her out of the chicken feed, no grain except if she is lactating, and free choice minerals - I use Hoegger's Golden Blend and Kelp (you can order from their website).

Oh yes, and in winter, if my goats seem to lack energy, I take them out to browse on bark, or pull bark for them and offer it to them in their feeders, they eat it all up!

Good luck.


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## dcphotos (Feb 10, 2011)

We had the donkey before the goat, took him in when his owner and my wife's best friend was diagnosed with cancer. He was rather lonely and I had been wanting goats so we got Annie to keep him company. It took a while, but they seem rather close now. The donkey was aggressive towards her for a bit, but right from the start if you sneaked up on the pen he would be out there loving on her, it's only when the humans come around. That's changed, now that we have weaned her from sweet grain to goat feed she butts him to try and get his food. But he tolerates at and they even sleep together in the barn now. I have heard that donkeys will get aggressive and kick goats, but we seem to be doing well with it now. 

Anyhow, Annie is much better after we have restricted her diet. Lots of rain and bad weather get her down, but when the sun shines she is happy. She runs to the barn when it drizzles, just hates rain. She will even go out of her way to walk around a puddle to get food. Spring is around the corner, it will be a happier goat world then.


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## ksalvagno (Feb 10, 2011)

Glad to hear she is doing better. I think this winter has gotten us all down.


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## phoenixmama (Feb 10, 2011)

I just wanted to suggest...especially since your wife is a veterinarian:  you guys should get a copy of the book Goat Medicine, by Drs. Smith & Sherman.


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## julieq (Feb 10, 2011)

I'd switch her to hay only, plenty of fresh water, free choice mineral salt (we use Golden Blend from Hoeggers) and free choice baking soda.


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## julieq (Feb 10, 2011)

phoenixmama said:
			
		

> I just wanted to suggest...especially since your wife is a veterinarian:  you guys should get a copy of the book Goat Medicine, by Drs. Smith & Sherman.


Excellent book.


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