# Anybody else with Silver Foxes?



## Caprice_Acres

I'm new to the Backyard Herds site.  Nice to see a bustling, varied community here!


I raise Silver Fox, New Zealand Whites and Blacks for meat and show, as well as some crosses. 

I'm really loving my silver fox, which I've had for a little over a year now.  They can't be beat for temperment, that's for sure.  They've been great producers for me, too.


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## cutechick2010

Hi there! I have never had Silver foxes (yet!) but they look like a cool breed. I love the idea of helping to preserve a breed that is in danger of extinction, too. Where are you located?


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## lovinglife

I would love to raise Silver Fox, but I have not been able to find any in Southern Idaho.  I plan on going to some rabbit shows next year, maybe I can locate some then...


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## Caprice_Acres

I'm in Michigan, and do show a little bit around here.  I went to 4 shows this year and did well. Looking forward to more showing next year.  

Just had another litter born today, litter of 7 with 2 that chilled and died... I think it was because she had used some hay that I've been feeding them to make a dome-topped nest in the nestbox, and stuffed MOST of her fur into the top.   It was pretty, but without the fur in the nest, two chilled.   Thankfully I didn't loose ALL of them.  The ones left are fat and sassy - all were blacks.

Here is some of the babies in the growout cages: 







I had to herd them down to one end of my 10'x2.5' growout cage to get that shot.  There are 3 litters of purebred silver fox and 1 litter of 50% Silver fox, 50% New Zealand White in the growout cage. 

I took this one of a doe I have for sale today, too.  I thought it was too cute.  :


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## Rilly10

What a cool breed! I have been reading about them for a while now but personal accounts are great! I have been toying with getting a larger breed and have been looking at these and blank de hotots. What are their temperaments like?


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## Caprice_Acres

They have AMAZING temperaments.  All pure silver fox that I've had have been sweet.  I get some growlers when they have litters, but that's about it.  I've been bitten by ONE silver fox - and that was a cross that was 75% silver fox, 25% chinchilla and was always high strung.


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## Rilly10

Caprice_Acres said:
			
		

> They have AMAZING temperaments.  All pure silver fox that I've had have been sweet.  I get some growlers when they have litters, but that's about it.  I've been bitten by ONE silver fox - and that was a cross that was 75% silver fox, 25% chinchilla and was always high strung.


Awesome! I may need to check them out at the PA Farm Show and the show in Lebanon!


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## WorthItFarms

I just got a pair from Mib Scoggins in SC and two from non-specific breeders in NC & TN. Here's photos:
LeeLu from TN





Juno from NC (Oser bloodlines)





Crusher (from Mib)





Pretty Girl (From Mib)





I am looking for cages to be able to add about two more. Right now they live in large dog crates with chicken wire on the bottom to stop the digging. Juno's not too happy about that, because she LOVES to dig!


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## Caprice_Acres

WorthItFarms said:
			
		

> I just got a pair from Mib Scoggins in SC and two from non-specific breeders in NC & TN. Here's photos:
> LeeLu from TN
> http://worthitfarms.viviti.com/file...;c2b65e111aa57d209287ee87e84a4bbd9ad496b2.jpg
> 
> Juno from NC (Oser bloodlines)
> http://worthitfarms.viviti.com/file...;ef9d35e1ac0bbb95eb3919c0d563e93dcdf9233a.jpg
> 
> Crusher (from Mib)
> http://worthitfarms.viviti.com/file...;d7163fbddbdde106072f079814a8c5df63b070a1.jpg
> 
> Pretty Girl (From Mib)
> http://worthitfarms.viviti.com/file...;220220854a3b1a3aeb4264587a89085d16c88e52.jpg
> 
> I am looking for cages to be able to add about two more. Right now they live in large dog crates with chicken wire on the bottom to stop the digging. Juno's not too happy about that, because she LOVES to dig!


The first one - is she sun bleached? It looks like she's not a black, more like a gold tipped steel.  

You'll love your silver fox.


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## WorthItFarms

She was in molt when the picture was taken. I've read they get a lot of brown while they molt


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## Caprice_Acres

WorthItFarms said:
			
		

> She was in molt when the picture was taken. I've read they get a lot of brown while they molt


If they're in sun, they'll be brown until they moult. They stay their color through moult if they aren't bleached from the sun. At least,  that's what I've found with my rabbits.


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## WorthItFarms

Some updated photos:

Pretty Girl (with the little blue boy in the background)







Crusher






And the new blue boy who isn't named yet








Can't get Juno & Leelu to cooperate for photos because they are due this week. Baby photos will be forthcoming!


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## Gomanson

When I decided to get rabbits, I settled on Silver Fox.  Now that I'm finding out how hard they are to find, I realize how much I lucked out; there's a breeder (Collins Castle Rabbits) in Princeton, MN, about 30 minutes north of me.

Silver Fox have a high dress out percentage, unique fur, good temperament, and large litters.  So what's their downfall?  I don't know much about animal breeding yet, but I know that for plants there is always give and take.  Could it be that Silver Fox don't have the greatest feed conversion ratio?  Does anyone have any stats on that?


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## SNLrabbits

I raised Silver Foxes when they first came out. I had my own rabbitry and my mom decided they were neat so we got a breeding pair. Well, when mom decided she wanted a breed I always took care of them (I called them the riff raff of the barn). I didn't focus on the SF as I was doing well with my californians and mini rex. I decided one day to throw the doe in with the buck and ended up granding 2 of the babies. I fell out of the rabbit habit and started raising beef. Now my daughter, who is only 1, and I are starting up the rabbits again and I wouldn't have a rabbit barn without the SF in it! She loves my buck, she will sit and hold him and talk to him all day. A great breed if my 1 year old can hold it and it falls asleep in her arms!


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## 20kidsonhill

we hope to have silver fox soon, we are doing the research and contacting breeders in under a 10 hour drive from our house. 

Their sure aren't very many by us.


Any advice???


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## Tracey

I have my first silver fox, yah!! 

last week I collected my 5 month old doe - black, but with blue,black parents. Looking for a nice buck in NE ohio,

will post a photo soon, she is a sweet girl!


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## 20kidsonhill

Tracey said:
			
		

> I have my first silver fox, yah!!
> 
> last week I collected my 5 month old doe - black, but with blue,black parents. Looking for a nice buck in NE ohio,
> 
> will post a photo soon, she is a sweet girl!


During your research did you figure out if the blue gened rabbits are more popular than just black with no blue genes. My son said he likes the black onse and it doesn't matter to him.  My thought was if the onse with the blue genes are in more demand we should probably invest in those.


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## Tracey

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Tracey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have my first silver fox, yah!!
> 
> last week I collected my 5 month old doe - black, but with blue,black parents. Looking for a nice buck in NE ohio,
> 
> will post a photo soon, she is a sweet girl!
> 
> 
> 
> During your research did you figure out if the blue gened rabbits are more popular than just black with no blue genes. My son said he likes the black onse and it doesn't matter to him.  My thought was if the onse with the blue genes are in more demand we should probably invest in those.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I"m NO expert - but from asking around and reading on the net I've found that people often charge a little more for blue rabbits. Not sure if that is because they are more popular, or because they are a little rarer. I've also heard that the blue are not showable at this stage - but please confirm that and don't take my word for it 

I love the blues, and I'm hoping to get a few from our blacks first litter. 

If you're still looking for a breeder in VA, check out the national silver fox rabbit club on facebook. Quite a few breeders on there. 

Hope that helps!

Cheers!

Tracey


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## 20kidsonhill

Gomanson said:
			
		

> When I decided to get rabbits, I settled on Silver Fox.  Now that I'm finding out how hard they are to find, I realize how much I lucked out; there's a breeder (Collins Castle Rabbits) in Princeton, MN, about 30 minutes north of me.
> 
> Silver Fox have a high dress out percentage, unique fur, good temperament, and large litters.  So what's their downfall?  I don't know much about animal breeding yet, but I know that for plants there is always give and take.  Could it be that Silver Fox don't have the greatest feed conversion ratio?  Does anyone have any stats on that?


I could be wrong, not an expert, but pretty much all colored meat rabbits became unpopularized due to  the demand for white fur.    Colored fur was not sellable, so meat rabbit farmer all starting growing new zealand whites and californian whites. 

Pet breeds remained more colored, because colors are cute.


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## 20kidsonhill

Tracey said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tracey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have my first silver fox, yah!!
> 
> last week I collected my 5 month old doe - black, but with blue,black parents. Looking for a nice buck in NE ohio,
> 
> will post a photo soon, she is a sweet girl!
> 
> 
> 
> During your research did you figure out if the blue gened rabbits are more popular than just black with no blue genes. My son said he likes the black onse and it doesn't matter to him.  My thought was if the onse with the blue genes are in more demand we should probably invest in those.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I"m NO expert - but from asking around and reading on the net I've found that people often charge a little more for blue rabbits. Not sure if that is because they are more popular, or because they are a little rarer. I've also heard that the blue are not showable at this stage - but please confirm that and don't take my word for it
> 
> I love the blues, and I'm hoping to get a few from our blacks first litter.
> 
> If you're still looking for a breeder in VA, check out the national silver fox rabbit club on facebook. Quite a few breeders on there.
> 
> Hope that helps!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Tracey
Click to expand...

Tried the face book thing, they said they don't now anyone near the east cost or in Virginia. I am thinking it will be worth my drive to bring some to Virginia, maybe start a new trend.

I found someone in Maryland 2 1/2 hour drive, I have an order in and have been put on a waiting list.  He has black and blues. My husband is excited because the farm is really close to gettysburg battlefields and he has been wanting to take the family their for a field trip. YUCK   I told him I would NOT go in the past, but he was welcome to go anytime he wanted, know he is black mailing me.   I drive you to get rabbits, but we have to spend the day at the battlefields.  

Also found someone in west virginia 1 1/2 hour drive and I emailed them and have never heard back from them.  But they only have black high-end show rabbits.

I do drive to wisconsin every couple years so I will have to see if I can cordinate a farm visit on my way back from visiting in wI.


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## Tracey

Whitmore farms?? Must be a man thing, as my husband said the same. It's about 6 hrs for us and he says, oh, it's ok we can visit Gettysburg. Boys!

I saw your other post re black/blue genes. They way I see it is just like brown and blue eyes in people. So Black/Black mixed with another bunny would only produce black, and you need 2 blue genes to get the blue kit. And blue and blue rabbits couldn ONLY produce blue, as they both have to have 2 blue genes to start with - no brown. Best might be to get your son a black rabbit that had either a blue mom or dad?

Cheers!


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## 20kidsonhill

Tracey said:
			
		

> Whitmore farms?? Must be a man thing, as my husband said the same. It's about 6 hrs for us and he says, oh, it's ok we can visit Gettysburg. Boys!
> 
> I saw your other post re black/blue genes. They way I see it is just like brown and blue eyes in people. So Black/Black mixed with another bunny would only produce black, and you need 2 blue genes to get the blue kit. And blue and blue rabbits couldn ONLY produce blue, as they both have to have 2 blue genes to start with - no brown. Best might be to get your son a black rabbit that had either a blue mom or dad?
> 
> Cheers!


My husband said, " Did you tell her I don't mean any of this half a day crap either. I mean the whole day."  I asked him how would we have time to go see the rabbits and he said, " we will stay over night."


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## Tracey

he!he!

Oh well, at least you get your bunnies


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## 20kidsonhill

Tracey said:
			
		

> he!he!
> 
> Oh well, at least you get your bunnies


Have you actually gone to the farm, yet? 

I can't get a good feel from their website about blood-lines and how many silver fox they actually have.  

at first I was thinking 1 buck and 2 does, now I am thinking 2 bucks and three does,  but that will mean more cage building for us. Sure husband will be thrilled. 

Oh, but you will love this. He calls me this morning and says I was talking too.....
and then starts telling me how we should do worm farming with the rabbits and that way we can  sell, rabbits, worms and worm cast(droppings).  WOW!!! He was actually talking about and thinking about a farm project at home.  Now don't get me wrong he is no city boy, born and raised on a farm, going on call with his father a large animal vet. We met working at 1,000 sow hog operations and he now works for Cargill Turkey. Nothing non-farm about him, but he hates all my little projects that I try to start with the kids at home.  when he gets home from his 12 hour day, he really doesn't want to start helping me with yet another project, he would rather watch T.V. Drives me crazy. 

take care


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## Tracey

Not sure, but from their pictures it looks like they have quite a few. I e-mailed to check they came with pedigrees and they were quick to respond. I know they had litters due late april and were taking reservations.

We're a bit like you, not sure how many silver fox' to start with. I had put a depost on three from a local farm - one is the doe I already have. Think I'm going to stick with them this year, and try pick up some new lines once the first lot are established and breeding.

The worms are a great idea - we keep four worm bins and they do a wonderful job of converting kitchen scraps and rabbit manure into compost. We mostly feed them bunny berries and coffee grounds - the end result is better than anything I can buy in the stores. I can normally find a buyer for my surplus worms through craigslist, though the demand at a local level is not great. Haven't tried selling the vermicompst yet though - too good not to use on our own garden


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## Caprice_Acres

Tracy, 

If you're in Northern Ohio, you're likely close to me. I have several litters right now, though most aren't weaned yet. Blacks and some blues. I do have a weaned litter with 5 bucks in it, though...   I'm only about an hr. north of the OH border here, located centrally in MI. I do meet people quite often, and willing to drive part way. 

Here's one of the dams of one of the litters. Elvira, two BOB legs on her. BIG girl, over 11lbs!: 







This is Isabella, one BOS leg on her at her first show, an Emma x Tempest breeding: 







Pictures of all my SF and other rabbits can be seen on my website : www.capriceacres.webs.com

----------------------------------------------

As for downfalls of the breed - they aren't QUITE as good as NZW's, Calis, or crosses of Cali/NZW.  Common issues with them seem to be weak hindquarters, narrow loins, smaller than standard weight, and poor fur. But there will be things to work with in every breed. To me, the fact that my does don't try to dismember me whenever I do chores is a good thing. I've tried New Zealands and they were just downright VICIOUS.  My silver foxes are teddy bears. 

I also haven't seen blues priced higher than blacks, here.  I like the blues  - but they just have a Certificate of Development on them (COD), and cannot be shown in actual competition for legs. They can be SHOWN and placed as a separate variety with no awards given, which is helpful to evaluate breeding stock.  I try to keep a couple blue does and I have a blue buck. Most of my does carry blue, so I get them often. But, I also have bucks who do NOT carry blue, so I can get all black litters which are showable for award.


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## Caprice_Acres

> I saw your other post re black/blue genes. They way I see it is just like brown and blue eyes in people. So Black/Black mixed with another bunny would only produce black, and you need 2 blue genes to get the blue kit. And blue and blue rabbits couldn ONLY produce blue, as they both have to have 2 blue genes to start with - no brown. Best might be to get your son a black rabbit that had either a blue mom or dad?


Just saw this, you're correct. Thought I'd help to clarify blue/black genetics as to newbies they can be confusing! 

Blue is a recessive trait, called a dilution. You do need two doses of the dilution to cause the blue color, one from each parent. HOWEVER, black animals can carry the diution as one copy of the gene, and still be black.  Any rabbit that has a blue parent WILL carry blue, no matter what.  

A black rabbit that does NOT carry blue will ALWAYS produce black offspring no matter who it's bred to - even a blue mate.

If a black rabbit has blue offspring, both rabbits MUST carry blue. 

If you breed a carrier to a carrier, 25% will be blue, 50% will be blue carriers, and 25% will be black, not carriers. 

If you breed a carrier to a blue, 75% will be blue, 25% will be carriers. 

I keep blacks mainly, but most of my girls are blue carriers. I also keep a blue buck.  I also have two black bucks that do NOT carry blue. The main reason being is that blues are not part of actual show competition. You can put them on the table for eval (have a copy of the working standard with you, though) but they are not truely accepted.  I always suggest to people that they keep a blue buck and a buck that does NOT carry blue, to use on blue carrier does. That way they can get any color they want as demand requries.


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## Genipher

Here in Oregon, on the coast, I just got some Silver Fox Rabbits. One of the does and the buck have a bit of silver in their fur. The other doe is *black*. Not registered but they are tatooed. The does have had a few litters and I just stuck Sunny the Bunny (the lighter doe) in with Abbot the Rabbit (the buck) so (fingers crossed!) we'll have kits the beginning of November.  

Someone said this breed is rare?
The lady I bought these guys from had them coming out the you-know-what!

Ours are for eating but I wouldn't mind selling some babies, too...just as long as I don't make more than $500.00/year, right?


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## Caprice_Acres

As long as you don't sell more than 500.00 per year to business such as TSC, pet stores, etc. 

They are rare, in the grand scheme of things. There are some big breeders BUT compared to many other breeds - very rare. 

Rabbits aren't registered regularly. They are often sold with a pedigree, which is just the breeder's record of the lineage. Usually people only spend the money to register them if they win at least 3 GCH legs, and can then be a recorded grand champion.  

If you decide you like these rabbits enough to expand or decide you want to start raising them for quality breeding stock as well as meat, you can LIKELY go back to the breeder and get pedigrees on your rabbits. Where an adult SF doe without a pedigree will often sell for 20.00, the same rabbit with a full pedigree would probably be priced around 45.00 if she's average (around here).  Litters are about the same price IMO. You can see obviously why getting the papers on them makes sense in the long run, if you plan on selling any as breeding stock. If you stick to JUST meat, then the pedigrees aren't necessary for anything.


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## Genipher

So if I wanted to sell a couple Silver Fox babies as pets (or breeders, etc.), $20 would be a reasonable rate to charge?  I don't think I would be interested in putting forth the effort to get pedigrees though...


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## Ms. Research

Genipher said:
			
		

> So if I wanted to sell a couple Silver Fox babies as pets (or breeders, etc.), $20 would be a reasonable rate to charge?  I don't think I would be interested in putting forth the effort to get pedigrees though...


I think that's a reasonable price.  And if they are just pets, IMO, people who purchase aren't really looking for pedigrees.  Just a healthy bunny.   The breeding part, well there are people out there who want pedigrees, but there also those out there just looking for Good stock.  Just tell the buyer, if it's a breeder, that they are being sold w/o pedigrees.  

BTW, once purchased, can the breeder get the pedigrees if they want?  Just curious.


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## cutechick2010

Genipher said:
			
		

> So if I wanted to sell a couple Silver Fox babies as pets (or breeders, etc.), $20 would be a reasonable rate to charge?  I don't think I would be interested in putting forth the effort to get pedigrees though...


Actually, the pedigrees take almost no effort. You simply buy a book of blanks, or even design your own on the computer, and then fill them out with the information about the rabbit. I always wrote mine out by hand, and I used the ARBA blanks because I liked the way they look, all official-like. 

 If you are talking about registration, that does take more effort. The rabbit needs to be inspected by a an official registrar to make sure it conforms to ARBA breed standards, and then the registrar will give the rabbit a tattoo with it's registration number, assuming it passes inspection. 

*@ Ms. Research:* Usually, once you buy the rabbit without a pedigree, you can't go back and get it. Most of the time if a breeder is willing to sell a rabbit without one, it's because they feel the rabbit is flawed in some way (in show terms, not health-wise) and don't want any offspring from it associated with their herd name. Especially with a rare breed like the Silver Foxes, if they sell one as a pet, they prefer it not be bred because it has some flaw that makes it not fit breed standards. And of course, if you breed one that does not conform to breed standards, you are lowering the overall quality of the breed. Not to sound snobbish or anything, but a big part of being a responsible breeder is too ONLY breed the best.


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