# Anyone use this fence



## JLH (Aug 9, 2016)

Anyone use this fence for goats/sheep. Would also be used to keep dogs and coyotes out. Thinking of using it along with a strand of barb wire along the top and the bottom. Five foot fence.......thoughts ?

http://www.kencove.com/fence/2+x+4+Woven+Horse+Fence_detail_WH5.php


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## Hens and Roos (Aug 9, 2016)

We have 2" x 4" no climb horse fence- 4 ft high for our goats and it is holding up very well.  We did run 1 strand of hot wire around the buck's area to keep him from joining the does!

@OneFineAcre @Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice @babsbag


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## JLH (Aug 9, 2016)

Hens and Roos said:


> We have 2" x 4" no climb horse fence- 4 ft high for our goats and it is holding up very well.  We did run 1 strand of hot wire around the buck's area to keep him from joining the does!
> 
> @OneFineAcre @Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice @babsbag


Thank you for your reply, we had thought of 4 foot but with our larger non LGD dogs, we think it best to go with 5 foot. Not sure of the price of the no climb in 5 foot, mite be cheaper than what I posted


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## Riverside Fainters (Aug 9, 2016)

I have woven wire fencing and it works well. Mine is only 4 ft high, but we lock all my goats up at night.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 9, 2016)

We use 47" woven wire $150/330ft roll
Your posted non-climb 5ft $150/100ft roll
Red Brand Non- climb horse 5ft $330/200ft roll
Generic Non-climb horse 4ft $130/100ft roll (200ft/$250)

So looks like 5ft options are $150/100ft or $330/200ft..so yeah looks like your link is cheaper by about $15 per 100ft. So that would come down to shipping i think unless you can pick it up locally.


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## chiques chicks (Aug 9, 2016)

I've never used the fence, but have purchased electric netting from the company. I was satisfied with their product and shipping was extremely fast. They are only a few hours away from me, I ordered on a holiday Monday so they recieved order on Tuesday, UPS had it at my door Wednesday morning. 

I must caution, ensure when ordering it is listed in stock if you need it quickly, I don't know how long their backorders take.


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

I use 2x4 no climb fencing as well. I put a row of hot wire at the top and one at knee height. Keeps the dogs from going over and the goats from rubbing on the fence. It is 4' tall.


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## Alexz7272 (Aug 9, 2016)

Never used that brand but I also use 5 ft woven wire for my goats, sheep & alpacas. I cannot afford the no-climb horse fencing and so far I have had no issues with woven wire.


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## Baymule (Aug 9, 2016)

Yes, we used it and love it! We went with the 4' wire and 7' T-posts which gave me room for a couple strands of barbed wire at the top, making a 5' fence.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 10, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> Never used that brand but I also use 5 ft woven wire for my goats, sheep & alpacas. I cannot afford the no-climb horse fencing and so far I have had no issues with woven wire.



Where did you find 5ft woven wire?


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## JLH (Aug 10, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> Where did you find 5ft woven wire?


at the link I provided above


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 10, 2016)

JLH said:


> at the link I provided above



Haha no @Alexz7272  said she had 5ft woven wire too.


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## Alexz7272 (Aug 11, 2016)

@misfitmorgan 
I am hoping my English skills are not lacking and what I am thinking is considered woven wire is not actually it? 
I have bought most of my fencing from local farmers but the one time I got it from the store it was from Murdoch's at 60x100 for $94.00
http://www.murdochs.com/shop/iowa-steel-and-wire-welded-wire-utility-fabric-60/

Tractor Supply also has some 
http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/welded-wire-60-in-x-100-ft


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## babsbag (Aug 11, 2016)

@Alexz7272 that is WELDED wire. Woven wire is when the pieces are wrapped around each other, like a knot.






I usually break the welded wire when I stretch it. My goats would break it in a second. The woven stands up to abuse from me and the goats.


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## Alexz7272 (Aug 11, 2016)

oops, sorry!


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 12, 2016)

@Alexz7272 
No worries.

@babsbag 
We cant use welded wire either Babs, wish we could it would work out better(smaller holes) and be cheaper then the woven we use.


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## NH homesteader (Aug 12, 2016)

I wish I was on this site when we bought a ton of welded wire fencing! My does are ok (except they keep getting out)  but my wether is destroying it. And I'm sure my buckling will do the same when he gets big enough! Now we have to add electric strands.


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## Mini Horses (Aug 12, 2016)

Welded will not last  UNLESS you have  HOT electric on it.  So if you are looking a $$ you have to work it now, be sure you have really good hot wire up also....

ALL my animals rub it and it just comes apart if no hot wired.  Been there, rewired that.   The woven can/will stretch if not hot wired but doesn't "pop apart" as the welded.

For chickens, welded is fine.  But put a 200 lb buck in there who wants to rub off his winter hair and it's over.


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## NH homesteader (Aug 12, 2016)

Luckily I don't have full sized goats....  But still it looks like my chickens may inherit a giant fenced in area! Haha


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## babsbag (Aug 12, 2016)

I have the welded around my garden and I stretched it very carefully. I like tight fences and we are not on level ground so welded has a hard time holding up to my abuse. Everywhere else is the perimeter fence is 4' 2x4 no climb except one area is 5' as it was an open roll at TSC so we got a good price. Fencing between does and bucks is stock panel with hot wire on both sides. Rut is is full swing so glad I have the hot wire.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 12, 2016)

babsbag said:


> @Alexz7272 that is WELDED wire. Woven wire is when the pieces are wrapped around each other, like a knot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Babs if this is the fence I am thinking it is - it is a newer style of woven...* It is not welded* - at each intersection it is wrapped so it doesn't move.

Many are using this out here... supposedly it is very strong and withstands abuse.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 15, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Babs if this is the fence I am thinking it is - it is a newer style of woven...* It is not welded* - at each intersection it is wrapped so it doesn't move.
> 
> Many are using this out here... supposedly it is very strong and withstands abuse.



Babs was referring to the links @Alexz7272  put up which is welded wire. Not the links the OP put up for the woven wire



Alexz7272 said:


> @misfitmorgan
> I am hoping my English skills are not lacking and what I am thinking is considered woven wire is not actually it?
> I have bought most of my fencing from local farmers but the one time I got it from the store it was from Murdoch's at 60x100 for $94.00
> http://www.murdochs.com/shop/iowa-steel-and-wire-welded-wire-utility-fabric-60/
> ...


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## ShadyTreeAcres (Oct 19, 2016)

Fencing is so confusing, I have read to NEVER use woven wire for goats and then I read to ONLY use it.  What is a newbie to do?

I have two rolls of 60" welded wire from TSC in my truck...now I'm considering returning it.  I have the 6ft t posts so I'd have a foot at the top with no support

Thoughts?


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## Baymule (Oct 19, 2016)

ShadyTreeAcres said:


> Fencing is so confusing, I have read to NEVER use woven wire for goats and then I read to ONLY use it.  What is a newbie to do?
> 
> I have two rolls of 60" welded wire from TSC in my truck...now I'm considering returning it.  I have the 6ft t posts so I'd have a foot at the top with no support
> 
> Thoughts?


Welded wire is total crap. Take it back. The spot welds break if a rabbit sneezes on them, much less the teeth of a dog or the hooves/horns of any farm animal. We use 2"x4" non climb horse wire and love it.  Welded wire is a total waste of time and money.


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## ShadyTreeAcres (Oct 19, 2016)

Baymule said:


> Welded wire is total crap. Take it back. The spot welds break if a rabbit sneezes on them, much less the teeth of a dog or the hooves/horns of any farm animal. We use 2"x4" non climb horse wire and love it.  Welded wire is a total waste of time and money.



alrighty then!  Return it is.  So I guess that brings me back to needing to stretch the woven wire then right?


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## babsbag (Oct 19, 2016)

Yes, you need to stretch the woven wire. Whoever said no woven for goats is crazy and has probably never owned a goat. I use horse fencing for mine, 2x4 no climb 4' tall. I run a hot wire inside at knee height to get the goats from rubbing on it. They can destroy any fence given a chance.

I do not use the field fencing with big squares as goats can and will put their heads through it. TSC has a 4x4 goat and sheep fencing that is ok; I do have it on part of my land.


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 20, 2016)

ShadyTreeAcres said:


> alrighty then!  Return it is.  So I guess that brings me back to needing to stretch the woven wire then right?



I used the woven wire that babs dislikes 

We have 20 acres to fence so the woven wire is the only logical wire for us. If your fencing a smaller area i would definitely use the no-climb horse...no heads stuck in the fence would be nice.


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## secuono (Oct 20, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> @misfitmorgan
> I am hoping my English skills are not lacking and what I am thinking is considered woven wire is not actually it?
> I have bought most of my fencing from local farmers but the one time I got it from the store it was from Murdoch's at 60x100 for $94.00
> http://www.murdochs.com/shop/iowa-steel-and-wire-welded-wire-utility-fabric-60/
> ...




*Welded* wire is trash! 
You need to get *woven* wire. 
Welds will rust out and snap easily under pressure and can be chewed through.


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## Alexz7272 (Oct 20, 2016)

@ShadyTreeAcres 
As someone who used welded and field fencing previously and now has specific goat fencing that is Woven, do _*NOT*_ waste your time on welded or any other fence.


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## babsbag (Oct 20, 2016)

@misfitmorgan  The field fencing might allow my LGDs some entertainment...nothing gets through the no climb.   But it is expensive.


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 20, 2016)

babsbag said:


> @misfitmorgan  The field fencing might allow my LGDs some entertainment...nothing gets through the no climb.   But it is expensive.



I know i priced it out and it would be approx $4,500 more just in wire to do the perimeter fence alone in no-climb, not to mention all the different pastures inside of that. So it was a no-brainer to go with the woven wire for our needs. If i had something more like 4-5 acres of fence lines i definitely would choose the no-climb.


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## babsbag (Oct 20, 2016)

I have 5 acres and about 4 of it is fenced for the goats. The perimeter is all no climb, the internal is stock panel and no climb. If we get the land next to us I will have another 4 acres to fence.


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## Baymule (Oct 20, 2016)

We have 8 acres, all in the 2x4 non climb. Yes it was expensive, but I already did one piece of property in crap wire and wasn't going to repeat the experience.


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## norseofcourse (Oct 21, 2016)

This is a great thread.  I may be replacing at least part of my perimeter fence with something 'solid'.  It's currently multiple strands of electric/poly rope.  I was looking at the sheep/goat fencing with the 4" squares, but now may go with the no-climb horse fence.

I'll have braced wood end/corner posts, with the line posts being t-posts.  It's a straight line, gently sloping.  How far apart do you put t-posts?  And can I do a whole run of a 330' roll with just a wood section at each end, or do you need another braced pair of wood posts every so often?


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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2016)

The 2x4 non climb wire comes in 100' and 200' rolls. We used the 200' rolls and put a brace at the end/start of each roll. We spaced the T-posts 10' apart. I absolutely adore my non climb fence!


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 21, 2016)

As mentioned you plan to do what you can  afford i can not afford to pay $12,000 on wire alone to fence my whole property so i shall be sticking with the crap wire i guess.


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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> As mentioned you plan to do what you can  afford i can not afford to pay $12,000 on wire alone to fence my whole property so i shall be sticking with the crap wire i guess.


I totally get that. We sold our previous home plus land in another location that we owned, and paid for this place and improvements. Without that financial pot to draw from, things would have been a lot different.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 21, 2016)

Same here.  I can't afford the "good stuff".  Maybe someday.  But for now if I need to I'll add hot wire to my crappy fencing! My does don't even wreck welded wire,  but my wether destroys it (my buckling isn't into the ladies or fence bashing yet).  But I know the welded wire won't last forever,  so I'll switch to woven wire when I need to. I want to use electric netting in the non snowy months but will still have to perimeter fence around that. We lose our power a lot!


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 21, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Same here.  I can't afford the "good stuff".  Maybe someday.  But for now if I need to I'll add hot wire to my crappy fencing! My does don't even wreck welded wire,  but my wether destroys it (my buckling isn't into the ladies or fence bashing yet).  But I know the welded wire won't last forever,  so I'll switch to woven wire when I need to. I want to use electric netting in the non snowy months but will still have to perimeter fence around that. We lose our power a lot!



Thats what i do...run hotwire our buck rubs up and down the fence if we dont. 



Baymule said:


> I totally get that. We sold our previous home plus land in another location that we owned, and paid for this place and improvements. Without that financial pot to draw from, things would have been a lot different.



I know you did, unforetunately we will just be buying our farm this year so we are limited. Atm the fencing with woven wire, hotwire, and posts will cost us in excess of $10,000 plus gates.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 21, 2016)

10,000???


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 21, 2016)

Its 20 acres, we have to do the perimeter fence and all the different pastures we need. We also need to buy a few fencers, and some gates, all the posts which will be a combo of cedar posts and t-posts. Then we need to build a few small shelters in the pastures not connected to the big barn. We also have to fence off the garden and orchard areas. The perimeter fence by itself is $1800 in woven wire plus the t-posts clips for woven and the fence staples for the cedar posts. The plus side of it is we wont have to worry about the livestock if the barn door gets left open or they damage a pasture fence because there will be the perimeter fence to contain them. The perimeter fence will also give us the option of letting the herds out into the hay field in the off season when there is something for them to eat out there and we can let our dogs runs the full 20 acres without worrying about traffic. The entire projected cost is about 30k but it will up our property value by about 40k so we are ahead. We have plans in a few years to also put up a new house which will up the value around another 150k. So final value will be something like 230k which is not bad for a property we are buying for 45k. This is getting off track but thats our plans anyhow.


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## Baymule (Oct 21, 2016)

We spent about 10K on fencing on 8 acres. But we are counting cross fencing and fencing into small pastures. We aren't through with the fencing, but it is all bought and paid for. We had a lot of fence posts, 2 pickup truck loads of treated wood posts, that we bought used. That really helped. We also cut some of the cedars here for corner posts and braces. I think I would have bought 1 roll at a time, I was so determined to use only the non climb wire. DH nearly died at the cost, but he got on board when I told him that it would even keep our chickens in.

For what we paid for this place and what we have spent, we are WAAAAAY ahead!


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## NH homesteader (Oct 22, 2016)

Yikes that's a lot of money to spend on fencing! And we are trying to keep the property value down here,  lol. I don't want to pay more taxes!


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## Baymule (Oct 22, 2016)

Our taxes are frozen, DH's senior citizen taxes will never rise!


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## NH homesteader (Oct 22, 2016)

Is that a Texas thing? Frozen taxes?


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## Bruce (Oct 23, 2016)

norseofcourse said:


> This is a great thread.  I may be replacing at least part of my perimeter fence with something 'solid'.  It's currently multiple strands of electric/poly rope.  I was looking at the sheep/goat fencing with the 4" squares, but now may go with the no-climb horse fence.
> 
> I'll have braced wood end/corner posts, with the line posts being t-posts.  It's a straight line, gently sloping.  How far apart do you put t-posts?  And can I do a whole run of a 330' roll with just a wood section at each end, or do you need another braced pair of wood posts every so often?



How often do you want to go on the other side of that 330' roll of fencing? I guess if it is perimeter fence, not often since the other side isn't your property. But everything I've read says put in more gates than you think you need, because you will need them  I've heard 10' between t-posts for woven wire, not critical which is good since some of us have quite a lot of NON cash crop of rocks not far under the surface (if not sticking up a bit). I suspect post spacing depends somewhat on the terrain. If there are rises and falls, might have to space posts accordingly so you don't have bottom gaps or fence trying to run through the ground to get over a rise.


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## Baymule (Oct 23, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Is that a Texas thing? Frozen taxes?



I don't know, but since DH is over 65, we filed for senior citizen exemption, which freezes taxes and they will never go up. We also filed for homestead and agriculture.



Bruce said:


> . But everything I've read says put in more gates than you think you need, because you will need them  .



I hung so many gates that DH complained and called out place Gateland. But he doesn't mind now. You can't have too many gates.


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## babsbag (Oct 23, 2016)

I agree with the gates, I have been putting in more all the time and have my eye and a few more.  The thing about gates for me is two things...the electric wire has to be modified and my dogs go over gates if I don't have solid wire all the way to the top and most of the gates have a gap at the top. Where I don't want the dogs to get through I really like chain link panel with a gate; as long as I don't need tractor access...it gets complicated.  

The value of my land doesn't go up unless I get a building permit for something and then they can add the value of the improvement to the value of our place, but they can't reassess the entire property which is a really good thing.  The value of our property is based on its last selling price.  Our property tax is never more than 1% of the appraised value.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 24, 2016)

I see that everyone that has hills are prepping for more gates.  I'm putting in H-braces in a couple of spots that I don't have gates (yet) but I think I will at some point.  It's easier to cut wire that is already well supported to add a gate later.

I have one spot that is next that I have no idea how I want to run the fence from a joining paddock.  I guess it's time for some pictures and ask for input in how to get over my terrain.


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 25, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Yikes that's a lot of money to spend on fencing! And we are trying to keep the property value down here,  lol. I don't want to pay more taxes!



As fas as i know know it is like Babs said as long as a permit isnt pulled they dont just automatically jack up the taxes and the tax increase is based on the value the permitted "thing" is adding which is approx 50% of it's assessment value or 50% of its cost to install/construct which is depreciated over something like 15yrs. We are also filed agricultural but not homestead until we buy it but in my county agricultural and homestead are the same tax rate so it doesnt matter much. Of course our taxes on 20 acres for the year is $458...so im not complaining if it goes up for awhile and i get a brand new house that is actually reasonable to live in, our trailer we have now is a joke.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 25, 2016)

Wow 

We have 5 acres.  We pay $2400 a year in taxes. I've never heard of filing agricultural or homestead.  Only heard of current use which doesn't  apply to me because we  don't have enough land. I have some research to do....  NH is weird though so I'm not holding  my breath!


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## Baymule (Oct 25, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Wow
> 
> We have 5 acres.  We pay $2400 a year in taxes. I've never heard of filing agricultural or homestead.  Only heard of current use which doesn't  apply to me because we  don't have enough land. I have some research to do....  NH is weird though so I'm not holding  my breath!


Do your research. You might need a few more acres.... claim agriculture or timber or whatever NH has.


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## Bruce (Oct 25, 2016)

Vermont "current use" requires 25 acres NOT including the homestead which must be on at least 2 acres. We are about 1 acre shy for the minimum 27.

Property taxes apparently a LOT higher here. ~$6K here and the same for the prior house (on 1/10 acre in town), properties appraised about the same.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 25, 2016)

Yes property taxes in New England are ridiculous! Maybe worse in NH because we have no income tax. My mother in law pays $10k for her house,  barn and 5 acre field...  Not sure how that worked out.


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 25, 2016)

Wow....i would not be living there lol. There is no minimum amount of acreage in michigan to be classed agricultural. You are either classed ag by the accessor automatically on may 1st or you can submit a form to get classed as ag and the only rule is more then 50% of the property must be used for farming activities. This can be anything from growing trees, to hay field, pasture, garden, etc. You can also pay ag taxes on land you rent out for others to farm. The only thing that would stop you from qualifying are non-livestock animals only and having no crops. Like if you had 4 acres and 3 acres pastured off for horses, that does not count as horses are not livestock.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 25, 2016)

Wow I like those rules! 90% of my land will eventually be used for livestock and gardens (real livestock lol) so I would be good as soon as I get my fencing up!


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 25, 2016)

Homestead tax is the same as ag tax if your property is accessed at less then 100k so even if your not accessed as ag and your place is bought for $199,500k or less your getting the same rate without having to farm it. You can find cheap land here too a farm i loved just sold last month. It was 105 acres for 160k included 3 barns, 4 out buildings, a full basement, 2 car garage,2 bed 1 bath and was fully fenced.  You get the crazies here to though like 80acres with a older mobile home asking $214K when it is accessed at 50k. Or 80 acres with a small 1 bed house asking 189k and accessed at 45k and bought 8yrs ago for 50k with no improvements made and no maintenance. So you have to watch here as with anywhere but on a whole we have large tracts of land for sale for cheap generally.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 25, 2016)

I'm not going to tell you how much land costs here! 

ok we put a single wide on our land to live in until we save up to build a cabin. With no barn,  our mobile home and a few little outbuildings and 5 acres of mostly woods and brush we are assessed at $84k.  Yay New Hampshire.


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## babsbag (Oct 25, 2016)

You mean CA is lower than somewhere in taxes...I'm shocked.  We get an homeowners exemption, doesn't matter how much land, you even get it in they city.  I pay 2300.00 a year for 5.25 acres and a 2000 sq ft house and that includes a 7000.00 personal property tax that we have to pay on the tractors and dairy trailers.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 25, 2016)

We don't have income,  sales or personal property tax so our regular property taxes are super high.


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## babsbag (Oct 25, 2016)

That makes it rough on the non-rich person to own land. In CA in 1978 voters passed the infamous Prop 13 which in a nutshell made all property tax 1% or appraised value. Before that taxes were going up and up and many senior home owners were loosing their homes because they could no longer afford the taxes. The fallout from that proposition and the cut in revenue for schools and gov't agencies was huge. But my mom was able to keep her home and she was considering selling it prior to that so it did what they wanted it to do for many people. As an adult now that pays taxes I am very happy for that. 

Also, they used to be able to reappraise the value of your property when you did an improvement. So if the place was appraised for  $75k and you added a $250.00 dollar cement driveway under permit they could come in and say that your home was now worth $200k or whatever they deemed the new appraised value to be. Thank goodness that is no longer the case either.


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## Bossroo (Oct 25, 2016)

We may not pay the huge property taxes due to Prop. 13,  but we sure are being dinged with new "fees", such as fire protection assesment fees.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 25, 2016)

California is like a whole different  country. So weird.


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## babsbag (Oct 25, 2016)

Yes, it is true we have some other fees, but thankful that we don't have both.  The personal property tax has me a little miffed.


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## Bruce (Oct 26, 2016)

babsbag said:


> You mean CA is lower than somewhere in taxes...I'm shocked.  We get an homeowners exemption, doesn't matter how much land, you even get it in they city.  I pay 2300.00 a year for 5.25 acres and a 2000 sq ft house and that includes a 7000.00 personal property tax that we have to pay on the tractors and dairy trailers.


Is there a decimal point in the wrong place somewhere or is this new math? $7,000 + x = $2,300 

My mother died in 2003, her CA (just south of LA) property taxes were $850/year and included trash. No idea what the new owners paid but I bet it was a HUGE increase given the increase in real estate values between 1978 and 2003. I guess in CA there isn't a "current property tax" line on a listing. Or if there is, it is just a joke if the home has been owned by the same person for a time (housing bubble/bust of 2007/8 notwithstanding).


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## babsbag (Oct 26, 2016)

No decimal in the wrong place, I didn't mention the $7000 home owners exemption that gets figured in. 

We bought a home for 63,000 in 1986 and in 2004 we refinanced it and it appraised for 465,000.  In 2008 I couldn't give it away.


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## Bruce (Oct 26, 2016)

Gee, I'd LOVE a $7K homeowners exemption 

Too bad they didn't reappraise in 2008 
Now that it is 2016, hopefully it has recovered.


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## Bossroo (Oct 26, 2016)

Bruce said:


> Gee, I'd LOVE a $7K homeowners exemption
> 
> Too bad they didn't reappraise in 2008
> Now that it is 2016, hopefully it has recovered.


Not a chance.  In our area of Central Cal. the only houses in town that are selling are the old run down rental properties that are purchased by rehabers and rental property owners to fix up and rent out.  The very high end homes are selling, but at lower prices.  Ranch / acreage properties that are on the market  are siting unsold.


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## babsbag (Oct 26, 2016)

We lost that house. I had it on the market for 99,999 and not even a showing. There were homes in much nicer neighborhoods to be had for the same price. I had quit my job for a much lower paying job and we were moving; we were already buying the home where we live now.

My last day at work I got a phone call from both of my college aged sons saying that they had lost their jobs (one was an intern for a state agency and the other worked for Sac. County Parks) and from my husband saying that he was getting  3 days a month furlough. I couldn't let the kids be homeless so something had to give and I could no longer make two house payments.  When I called the bank to try and make some kind of arrangements and they said "would you like to speak to someone in the United States?" I hung up the phone and lived in the house payment free for the next 8 months and walked away. 

A few months later the house sold at auction for around 300,000. But I couldn't sell it for 100,000.


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## Baymule (Oct 26, 2016)

That is just nuts. A lot of people got caught in that crunch. I am glad you are in your happy place now.


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## Bruce (Oct 26, 2016)

Yeah a lot of innocent people got screwed by a bunch of uncharged liars and cheats.


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## mystang89 (Nov 1, 2016)

I was looking to re fence my pastures and fortunately looked at this thread first . I have a question though on woven fence.  Is looking at http://www.fleetfarm.com/detail/Iow...Mugm4EvA6VDgRAwJU-ZDm_xukwLKpFnEvLBoCcAnw_wcB
and couldn't tell the difference between that and https://www.farmandfleet.com/produc...Yt3-eExmCkmYvQvTmCEGJs3CMalPojab4sxoCxbzw_wcB
Other than the second is much more expensive and covers much less ground than the first . I will be keeping in primarily sheep but probably also have a goat and a horse as well .


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## Bruce (Nov 2, 2016)

Hard to say @mystang89. There is no description of the cheaper one other than to say it is 12.5 gauge wire. Not even the height near as I can tell. The RedBrand is 2x4 spacing and while it says it is 12.5 gauge wire, the top and bottom wires are 10 gauge. It also comes in  48" and 60".

Another possible difference is that the RedBrand is knotted, meaning the junction of each vertical and horizontal wire is fixed with a piece of wire. The cheap one may be welded at each junction and that is what people are referring to as a weak point. If the welds break, the spacing between the wires can be made larger, break enough of them in the same area and a decent size hole can be opened up. 

What is the purpose of your fence? Meaning do you need 2x4 spacing? The RB Sheep and Goat is 4x4 and at TSC costs $280/330' so not at all cheap. They have a 6x6 (I THINK!) spaced knotted fence (same wire) that sells for $150/330' at TSC. That will keep larger animals in place but from what I've read some people have animals that like to get their heads/horns stuck in larger spaced fences. And it won't keep chickens in or foxes out.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

The first link is woven field fence...if you look at the picture you will notice the bottom holes are much smaller then the top holes. The second link is no-climb style fence which is what people prefer....but may not be in everyones budget.


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## mystang89 (Nov 2, 2016)

I thought woven meant knotted and not welded . 

Also i can't honestly say that i know what i need . 2x4 would be nice . I can see that , but i don't know if 4x4 would be bad because I've never had sheep , goats or horses . I did read in this thread what you said about getting horns stuck . I was planning on putting a hotwire at the top and one around one level. 
The fence comes in 32, 39,and 47 inches . 47" comes to around 160$


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

Bruce said:


> Hard to say @mystang89. There is no description of the cheaper one other than to say it is 12.5 gauge wire. Not even the height near as I can tell. The RedBrand is 2x4 spacing and while it says it is 12.5 gauge wire, the top and bottom wires are 10 gauge. It also comes in  48" and 60".
> 
> Another possible difference is that the RedBrand is knotted, meaning the junction of each vertical and horizontal wire is fixed with a piece of wire. The cheap one may be welded at each junction and that is what people are referring to as a weak point. If the welds break, the spacing between the wires can be made larger, break enough of them in the same area and a decent size hole can be opened up.
> 
> What is the purpose of your fence? Meaning do you need 2x4 spacing? The RB Sheep and Goat is 4x4 and at TSC costs $280/330' so not at all cheap. They have a 6x6 (I THINK!) spaced knotted fence (same wire) that sells for $150/330' at TSC. That will keep larger animals in place but from what I've read some people have animals that like to get their heads/horns stuck in larger spaced fences. And it won't keep chickens in or foxes out.



The cheaper one does have the height there is a drop down it comes in 32, 39, and 47." The cheap one is not welded...woven wire is woven never welded.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> I thought woven meant knotted and not welded .
> 
> Also i can't honestly say that i know what i need . 2x4 would be nice . I can see that , but i don't know if 4x4 would be bad because I've never had sheep , goats or horses . I did read in this thread what you said about getting horns stuck . I was planning on putting a hotwire at the top and one around one level.
> The fence comes in 32, 39,and 47 inches . 47" comes to around 160$



i use woven field fence because i could never afford the non-climb fence and so far no major problems. If you plan on not having horned goats/sheep you dont need to worry about their head getting stuck _usually_


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## Bossroo (Nov 2, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> i use woven field fence because i could never afford the non-climb fence and so far no major problems. If you plan on not having horned goats/sheep you dont need to worry about their head getting stuck _usually_


The issue may not apply to mature sheep and goats, but they seem to have lambs and kids and they get into all kinds of mischief.


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## Baymule (Nov 2, 2016)

Horses can hang a hoof in field fence and paw it to pieces. Ask me how I know....  We are using the 2x4 non climb wire. I love the stuff!


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> The issue may not apply to mature sheep and goats, but they seem to have lambs and kids and they get into all kinds of mischief.



Never had a lamb or kid get stuck who didnt have horns...but maybe thats just mine.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 2, 2016)

Baymule said:


> Horses can hang a hoof in field fence and paw it to pieces. Ask me how I know....  We are using the 2x4 non climb wire. I love the stuff!



We just used electric alone for our horses when we had them.


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## mystang89 (Nov 2, 2016)

Thanks everyone .


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