# LAMB MARKING DOWN-UNDER.



## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 12, 2016)

G'day,I thought this may be of interest to you all up there.I picked up this 'cradle' years ago at a farm sale,it was designed for de-sexing piglets but its ideal for lambs because one person can operate with 'both' hands free.

The lamb does not 'struggle' because the head is not supported and so it is concentrating on holding it up and cannot 'kick' with the rear legs at the same time.The bar at the top goes across the chest and holds the front legs 'firm' without injury.If you look closely at the shot of the ewe lamb you can see the extent of the 'bare' area on the tail I band at the furthermost point from the body of this bare patch.

If you have Hog Breeders in your area the chances are that they will have one of these 'laying' about somewhere.I hope the pic's and text are of value and interest...T.O.R.


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## Baymule (Nov 12, 2016)

I appreciate your posts so much. I always learn from your posts and just want to say thanks for sharing with us of limited experience.

I found this plan on how to build one

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/aben-plans/6289.pdf

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/extension-aben/buildingplans/swine


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 12, 2016)

That is interesting! I think I'd prefer using the pin to hold it in place over the strap though. 

I wouldn't have any use for it, I raise goats so no tail banding and I cut to castrate. I like gravity to help during castration.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 13, 2016)

G'day, the point of the post was to examine the animal welfare and the safety of the operator during this common task regarding sheep.The reason _ use the' banding' as against the 'cut method' of castration, it is safer for the operator,its bloodless  and there is less chance of infection as the wounds are completely healed before the purse and tail falls off.

Were I to be "grabbed by the balls " and be attacked with a sharp implement ,I'm bloody sure I would be "kicking and screaming" and doing my best to inflict some injury on the operator.

In my case I needed a system which I could operate safely and single handed to do the job .Down here all the commercial holders require at least two people to complete the task...T.O.R._


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## Sheepshape (Nov 13, 2016)

Now I KNOW I'm too soft for this game!  My ram lambs keep their nuts and I use a 'hot knife' for docking which seems to give them no pain whatever as the pain nerve fibres are fried. I'm not even keen on inflicting pain in vaccinations/injections, but do it as I know that to do nothing is not an option

However, I'm absolutely at home with my arm up to the elbow in a ewe if help is needed with lambing.....so there's some consolation!


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 13, 2016)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day, the point of the post was to examine the animal welfare and the safety of the operator during this common task regarding sheep.The reason _ use the' banding' as against the 'cut method' of castration, it is safer for the operator,its bloodless  and there is less chance of infection as the wounds are completely healed before the purse and tail falls off.
> 
> Were I to be "grabbed by the balls " and be attacked with a sharp implement ,I'm bloody sure I would be "kicking and screaming" and doing my best to inflict some injury on the operator.
> 
> In my case I needed a system which I could operate safely and single handed to do the job .Down here all the commercial holders require at least two people to complete the task...T.O.R._


My above post wasn't to be an augment on what method is best. I could care less on what method you use. I have never had blood while cutting BTW. And they don't move much. Nor have I had a problem with tetanus or infection. 
All that aside, I thought it was a great tool and are glad you shared it.  I was just saying, in _*my*_ situation I wouldn't be able to use it. Sheep and goats are very different.


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## Baymule (Nov 13, 2016)

T.O.R. I like the cradle, I googled them, but didn't find a place to buy one, only the plans for building one. Either way, I have lots of scrap lumber around and it doesn't look too difficult to put one together. Thanks for posting this.


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## Mike CHS (Nov 13, 2016)

I saved the plan and can see that added to the inventory (to-do list)


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## norseofcourse (Nov 13, 2016)

Looks like a neat holder to have.  I know someone who made a 'lamb holder' with a section of PVC pipe.

A friend comes over to hold my male lambs for wethering, I use the Burdizzo-type tool that crushes the spermatic cords/blood supply.  If I couldn't find someone to help, something like this would work well.  My sheep are naturally short-tailed, so I don't have to dock tails.


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## Bossroo (Nov 13, 2016)

Thank you  TOR for showing us  a very interesting idea.  The few times that I had to mark lambs by myself - I caught the lambs, tied the 4 legs together, place them between my feet and onto a board that was on the ground  then marked them.  TIME CONSUMING and not to mention Oh  my ACING BACK !  Think of marking 50 +/-  lambs at a time by yourself.  I have marked lambs by the hundreds for many years ( about 500 / year )  using the cut method.  To this day I have never been harmed by a lamb at the time of de- tailing with a hot iron and / or castrating using a knife.  Also, I have never lost a lamb due to loss of miniscule amount of blood  if any at all   from cutting the scrotum or even an infection from the procedure. Any lamb might put up just as much of a  fight or struggle or complaint or shock in being placed upside down and strapped in and being banded as the knife method.  One could just as easily be "injured " by a lamb using  ether method.  The only advantage of using the cradle is that one person can do the job but the TIME it takes to catch the lamb, strap it in then doing the docking and the castration goes up many times fold.  Both methods work ether way.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 14, 2016)

G'day ,firstly I would like to apologize for my good manners 'failing me' in the last post,I forgot that the systems you are using at the start usually stay with you for the rest of your life.Here is a better pic,I find that if I use the normal catching pen that I use for shearing I can undertake all  the needed tasks at one time marking,drenching and ear tagging at a comfortable height.If you look at the photo of the Ram ,he is completely immobilized in spite of the banding pliers still being attached.The lamb is laid with the head on the high side of the cradle. The front legs fold down for easy storage  and once the task is done you drop them down the shute on the right (the same as for shearing). I tried to find the company ,but with no success.Should anyone want to make one ,I can take some more pic's and supply measurements.BTW we raised goats for 25 years before we got the sheep and used this system then with the same success on Kids...T.O.R.


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## Latestarter (Nov 14, 2016)

Gotta say I never noticed any lacking of manners what so ever. You've always been the ultimate of polite and I really enjoy reading your posts. Different perspectives are great!


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 14, 2016)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day ,firstly I would like to apologize for my good manners 'failing me' in the last post,I forgot that the systems you are using at the start usually stay with you for the rest of your life.Here is a better pic,I find that if I use the normal catching pen that I use for shearing I can undertake all  the needed tasks at one time marking,drenching and ear tagging at a comfortable height.If you look at the photo of the Ram ,he is completely immobilized in spite of the banding pliers still being attached.The lamb is laid with the head on the high side of the cradle. The front legs fold down for easy storage  and once the task is done you drop them down the shute on the right (the same as for shearing). I tried to find the company ,but with no success.Should anyone want to make one ,I can take some more pic's and supply measurements.BTW we raised goats for 25 years before we got the sheep and used this system then with the same success on Kids...T.O.R.
> View attachment 24230


I didn't see it as lacking manners either 

Everyone does things differently. I think it is a great tool, and if I were to be banding/docking/tagging I would most definitely be building one! Perhaps my original post came off wrong, I also should have said I raise dairy goats. They don't have their tails docked, and don't get tagged either. With the breeds I raise, I tattoo the ears & disbud ("de-horn" with a hot iron). That is why I said I couldn't use it, but I really do like the idea. We actually use a box or headgate to do tattooing/disbudding.  

I really like how yours has a pin to keep the lamb in place, I would think it would be faster to secure the lamb w/ the pin over the strap.

Here is a pic of what we use for the dairy goat kids:
(pic taken from the 'net, but this is the same type we use)


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## Bossroo (Nov 14, 2016)

G'day TOR, you definately are NOT lacking for any manners. You DO have a very good grasp of sheep husbandry as well as the need to make a efficient living from sheep and what works for you.  I didn't mean to upset you in any way.  If I did, I apologize.  I just posted my personal experiences on my working sheep ranch for profit and view of raising much more sheep per year than most here. I used the "V" shaped pen leading / next  to the chute that I used to sort, mark,vaccinate, drench, etc. as an aid to not chase the ewes with lambs all over the pasture or dry lot for if I had help or by myself.   Yes ,  that cradle will work just fine for those that mark a few lambs at a time or do not have extra help and are not concerned about the time factor.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 14, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> G'day TOR, you definately are NOT lacking for any manners. You DO have a very good grasp of sheep husbandry as well as the need to make a efficient living from sheep and what works for you.  I didn't mean to upset you in any way.  If I did, I apologize.  I just posted my personal experiences on my working sheep ranch for profit and view of raising much more sheep per year than most here. I used the "V" shaped pen leading / next  to the chute that I used to sort, mark,vaccinate, drench, etc. as an aid to not chase the ewes with lambs all over the pasture or dry lot for if I had help or by myself.   Yes ,  that cradle will work just fine for those that mark a few lambs at a time or do not have extra help and are not concerned about the time factor.


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## Baymule (Nov 14, 2016)

When @Bossroo and @The Old Ram-Australia have a "how to" discussion, it benefits all of us newbies immensely. I for one, deeply appreciate all the nuggets of wisdom each of you shares with us. I am expecting my second lambing in another month or two and I don't have as much as a fingernail's worth of experience next to you two.
Thank you!


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 15, 2016)

G'day,I thought you may be interested in a few factors at play down here which will in the 'long term'will IMO effect all livestock producers in 1st world countries
1.The animal rights people convinced the govt to direct science to produce a pain relief system for use in livestock operations such as ,tail docking and marking.They came up with a system called"Num Nuts"  (Google Num Nuts pain relief for livestock)  Use at this time is voluntary ,but I suspect it will be come mandatory in years to come if the animal rights people have their way.
2.One state Vic. is to introduce a law to require the use of EID's (Electronic Identification) on all stock(sheep and goats) sold in that state(its already national for cattle).Now apart from the cost of these tags (about 5 times that of what we use now)Each farmer will need a 'reader' about $700.00 ea.It is claimed that our overseas customers are 'driving' it for tractability reasons.
Now there are only a few large company's that supply tags for livestock,they must be 'cheering' the govt on.We already have property ID tags which must stay on the animal for its whole life.When we sell or move stock the owner is required 'by law' to provide documents which the purchaser must keep and lodge and the seller must keep copies for 5 years.
For those of you who provided details for me on your animal sales recently  I will get back to it ,but at the moment I have to limit 'screen time' due to my "new" eyes....T.O.R.


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## frustratedearthmother (Nov 15, 2016)

I googled it and look what I found:





That's a great looking critter container.  It is similar in theory to what T.O.R first posted, but looks like something the unskilled worker (me) could create a reasonable facsimile of.


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## Baymule (Nov 15, 2016)

Regulation Nation. Too many regulations, don't these idiots realize the more regulations they vote for and impose, the fewer farmers/ranchers there will be? Then they will be left to the mercy of the mega food companies. Those of us that are able will quietly be raising our own meat/food.


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## Bossroo (Nov 15, 2016)

frustratedearthmother said:


> I googled it and look what I found:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey, it now takes 3 people to operate that device properly !  Enough is Enough 
Time to STAND UP  to these animal rights people by offering them the opportunity to PAY for their forced increase in operating costs on us that served mankind as well as their animal charges for time immemorial.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Nov 17, 2016)

G'day,here is the thing Bossroo,they are all 'vegetarians" and there sole objective is to force the closure of all livestock industries and have us all live on beans and lentils.....T.O.R.


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## Bossroo (Nov 17, 2016)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day,here is the thing Bossroo,they are all 'vegetarians" and there sole objective is to force the closure of all livestock industries and have us all live on beans and lentils.....T.O.R.


I am well aware of some folks that have their own misguided agenda mental state.  We are all  omnivores by millions of years of evolution.  Therefore we need to eat meat in addition to vegetables for our optimum health. How would they like it if we have a law passed to eat MEAT only and ban the vegetables ?   Let them eat their vegetables and let us eat whatever we want.  In other words,    B  U  G      O F F  already !


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