# Urgent! ND doe in labor too early?!?



## lomine (Aug 13, 2018)

I have a ND doe who is a FF (also my very first labor). The earliest she could be due according to the calculator and the date the buck came would be 8/18 but according to vet and my guess it should be more like 8/25. 

Right now she is panting, talking a lot, and pawing her belly. She also has this dark colored discharge. She is clearing uncomfortable. Also her udder grew a lot since yesterday. Is this labor?


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## Goat Whisperer (Aug 13, 2018)

Is 8/18 day 145 or day 150? 
The everything you mentioned _can _be signs of labor. Sometimes they go early. 

Amber colored discharge is most common before kidding, I haven’t seen that reddish color prior to kidding though. 

Keep a close eye on her.


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## lomine (Aug 13, 2018)

8/18 is 145 days. 

I just checked the ligaments. From what I can tell (total novice here) they are very soft, feel almost gone.

She just laid down and got back up again. I’ll be staying with her for now.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 13, 2018)

ND's can go at 140. Not ideal but can happen and often no issues. The concern is the color of the rope. 
Make sure you have a bulb syringe to suction the kids... don't let the dam struggle. Help her once the kids come. Sometimes FF space out.


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## lomine (Aug 13, 2018)

Okay. The buck’s owner lent me her kidding kit with everything I need, including a bulb syringe. 

Right now she doesn’t look like she’s pushing.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 13, 2018)

Offer her some Nutri drench. They can get pretty tired in early labor and not have energy to push.  If she takes it readily give a bit more as she is telling you she needs it.

Our goats hate molasses and don't take it easily... in labor when they want to slurp it up then we really know how tired they are.
Some are exhausted yet still refuse. We play that by ear... sometimes we drench them.

At least offer it.


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 13, 2018)

I’m not a kidding expert, but the only time one of my foes had red discharge prior to kidding was when she had a dead kid blocking the birth canal. I’d keep a close eye on her.


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## rosti (Aug 13, 2018)

Green Acres Farm said:


> I’m not a kidding expert, but the only time one of my foes had red discharge prior to kidding was when she had a dead kid blocking the birth canal. I’d keep a close eye on her.



Agreed. Early or not, that discharge is very concerning.


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## lomine (Aug 13, 2018)

I offered electrolyte and molasses water but she wasn’t interested. 

The discharges seems to have changed color. ???


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## Athena2344 (Aug 13, 2018)

How is she doing?


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## lomine (Aug 13, 2018)

Still no signs of contractions or pushing. I’ve left a massage and sent a text to the vet to get her opinion.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 13, 2018)

checking in... hoping all is well


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## lomine (Aug 13, 2018)

Talked to the vet. She said it looks like it could be embiotic fluid, which is bad if she leaking it. Or could be the mucus plug. She had me check if she is dilated. I could only fit one finger so she’s not far along. 

She seemed to have a contraction after I checked. Right now she is still acting like she’s in labor but doesn’t seem like she’s in distress. Vet said to just keep a close eye on her. She seemed concerned but said there’s nothing I can do to help her if she isn’t dilated.


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## Genipher (Aug 13, 2018)

Any changes?


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## What's1more (Aug 13, 2018)

I hope that your doe and future kids will be ok.  I'm a new owner of a baby pygmy goat brother and sister and I adore them.


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## lomine (Aug 13, 2018)

She gave birth to one live kid and one dead one ( vet called it a sterile mummy). She’s not interested in nursing at all. 

The kid is tiny and not eating currently working with the vet and buck’s owner on ways to help it.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 13, 2018)

Milk out some colostrum and put it in a bottle and feed the kid. Sounds like she may be a bit traumatized.  Pritchard nippples are really great for newborn kids.
The kid needs the colostrum at minimum of 10% it's body weight in ounces  within the first 12 hours. 
Very sorry about the dead kid, but thankful you have 1 living.
Please update when you can. Very glad you have help on the way.


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## lomine (Aug 13, 2018)

I got the doeling to take about an oz from the bottle. She is currently sleeping inside with a heating pad as she had gotten cold. It took a few tricks to get her to drink so I was very relieved when she did.

Mom is still very vocal and the poor thing just seems so confused. The good thing is she let me milk her with very little trouble.

I might try bring the kid back out to her for the next feeding to see if she’ll be interested. If not I’ll have to bottle feed. Not what I wanted but I’ll do what needs doing.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 13, 2018)

Yes, give a little more to the kid every 2-3 hours for now. Gonna be a long few days. It gets better. Still bring kid around to momma even if she won't let her nurse... so she knows it's hers. Some FF just are in shock and have no clue it is there kid... some will be ok with the kid but not let it nurse.


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## Latestarter (Aug 14, 2018)

Congrats on the live birth! Sorry you lost one of them. I hope the little girl comes along for you. Hope you can successfully reconnect her with mom. Hope you'll share some pics when you get the chance.



What's1more said:


> I hope that your doe and future kids will be ok.  I'm a new owner of a baby pygmy goat brother and sister and I adore them.


 Greetings and welcome to BYH. I hope you'll consider taking a minute to visit the new member's thread and introduce yourself so folks can welcome you properly.  https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/new-member-introductions.17/ I do want to point out that you said brother/sister and didn't mention  if the boy was wethered. Don't know how old they are but if he's NOT wethered, he WILL breed his sister and if they are babies, that could be a not so good thing. They will both become capable at a very young age... like anywhere between 2-3 months of age or slightly later. If he's not wethered, you need to separate them and if he's old enough to be capable, even after wethering, you'll need to keep them apart for a while.


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 14, 2018)

When I recently (1.5 weeks ago) had a doe with a similar kissing issue (FF doe with 1 dead kid, 2 live ones), she was too weak to stand and nurse her kids at first so I bottle fed them for the first day. I never moved them out of sight of their dam and by the afternoon of the second day the kids figured out how to nurse and their dam was recovered enough to take care of them. I would keep the kid with her dam so that (hopefully) her dam will be willing to let her nurse when she recovers and save you a few miserable days of bottle feeding every few hours.


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 14, 2018)

How much does the kid weigh?


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## lomine (Aug 14, 2018)

Night time feedings went well. Cookie (mom) let the kid nurse a little but didn’t let her nurse this morning. She is licking a little but still trying to keep a distance. She lets me milk her with no fighting. Kid spent the night in the house. It was oddly cold and the kid was chilled so I didn’t want to take the chance. Unfortunately I have to go to work to do payroll since I missed it yesterday. Kid is coming with but I hope we don’t lose the progress made with Cookie. 

She was born at 2.87 lbs and weighed the same this morning. She pooped and peed. She can stand on her own now though still very unstable. She latches on to the teat and nipple well. I think she’s had about 4 oz total so far. She is a feisty little thing.


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## Genipher (Aug 14, 2018)

Awwww! She's adorable!!

(Thought she was Lamancha, at first. Then I saw she just had her ears back. )​


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## Southern by choice (Aug 14, 2018)

Very cute!  If she is all Nigerian then that weight is fine. The few hours thing isn't forever it is justtil they can take 2-4 oz and then you stretch the times between. Bottle kids are awesome. I especially prefer Nigerians bottle raised. LOL


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## lomine (Aug 14, 2018)

She is full ND. The vet said the floppy ears are part of being premature. I got some new nipples and I think they are much better for her. She had no trouble eating a full oz. I think before she was taking .5-.75 each feeding.


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## lomine (Aug 14, 2018)

She was walking around a little. She is gaining much better control and strength in her legs. I’m very surprised and happy about how well she is doing. Even found a sunny spot to rest.


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 14, 2018)

She is quite adorable! Congrats! 

Also, welcome!


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## lomine (Aug 15, 2018)

Kid took a bit of a turn early this morning. She wasn’t eating as much and was lathargic. She lost weight. The vet is worried about a bacterial infection since the CD&T shot given to Mom would not be effective because she went into labor too soon. 

Vet had me administer penicillin and CD antitoxin. She got those about 2 hours ago. Right now she is up and walking a bit. She has nursed from mom a few times, even getting a little better at that but I still have to help. 

Vet said I probably still need to bottle feed to make sure she gets enough. Only problem is she doesn’t like the bottle much anymore since Cookie is letting her nurse.


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## MatthewsHomestead (Aug 15, 2018)

Ok. Rookie question, but what is FF? First foal? 

Congrats on the baby!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 15, 2018)

MatthewsHomestead said:


> Ok. Rookie question, but what is FF? First foal?
> 
> Congrats on the baby!


It means first freshener.... first time a goat kids and becomes "fresh" meaning "has come into milk"


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## lomine (Aug 15, 2018)

Oh boy these last few days have been like a roller coaster. The kid is responding well to the meds. She has her energy back and is moving around more. She’s even trying to do the little goat side hop jump. She can nurse on her own now, too. 

I’m still going to be checking on them every couple of hours to make sure she’s still eating. The vet said to give penicillin for the next three days and another does of antitoxin tomorrow. Cookie is doing better too. She’s very attentive to the kid now and has calmed down.


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 15, 2018)

Yay!   So glad things are looking good after such a rough start!


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## MatthewsHomestead (Aug 15, 2018)

Good to know. New to goats and mine aren't bred yet....

Glad they are pulling through


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 17, 2018)

lomine said:


> Oh boy these last few days have been like a roller coaster. The kid is responding well to the meds. She has her energy back and is moving around more. She’s even trying to do the little goat side hop jump. She can nurse on her own now, too.
> 
> I’m still going to be checking on them every couple of hours to make sure she’s still eating. The vet said to give penicillin for the next three days and another does of antitoxin tomorrow. Cookie is doing better too. She’s very attentive to the kid now and has calmed down.
> View attachment 51319






Congratulations!! So glad your perseverance and close watching has paid off! 

Does the little cutie have a name yet?


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## lomine (Aug 17, 2018)

Wednesday night/Thursday morning was another tough time. I had to syringe feed milk for a bit to help her. I think she may have overheated on the electric heat pad. I thought she would get up if she got too hot but I don’t think that happened. 

I feel like we’ve finally turned a corner. She is now at 3.09 lbs, is nursing completely on her own, and she’s starting to jump around a little. 

I was hesitant to name her but now that she’s doing so well I’ve been thinking about names. I’d like to either name her something that has to do with her fighter spirit or her markings. Mom has this white marking on her side that always makes me think of a dragon spitting fire and the kid has a mini version of it. So far I’ve found two I like. Brienne, which means brave, and Adelind, which means noble serpant (i.e. dragon).


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 17, 2018)

I think either would be fitting!


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## lomine (Aug 18, 2018)

Mom has had some bloody discharge. Is there a good trick to cleaning it out of her tail?


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## Latestarter (Aug 18, 2018)

She's going to be real sensitive about you messing around back there... Just so you know, but I'll bet you realized this. When I was milking after the birth, her tail would be absolutely caked with stuff as it would get wet, then when she'd lay down it would collect dirt and debris. Turned her tail into an almost brick.  Since I use warm to hot water with bleach and dawn soap as an udder cleaning solution before milking, I'd make sure I had plenty and a little extra and after milking, before letting her go, I'd use the wash cloth and that warm water to wash her tail off as best I could. After doing it a few times, I guess she figured out I wasn't trying to breed her and that she felt much better afterwards, so she settled down and let me clean her. I also caught several of the other does who's tails were a mess and cleaned them at the same time, same way. Of course that wash cloth was laundry bound afterwards.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 18, 2018)

First freshener....  First time doe has had kids.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 18, 2018)

Clipping long hair on and around tail helps cut down on accumulation of trash.  A bit of Vaseline applied in right place also helps.  And, as you found out a wash cloth, soap, hot water gets job done.


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 18, 2018)

You’ll find that shaving them up a little beforehand will help keep them cleaner. There’s examples of what I did on my kidding thread from earlier this year.


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## lomine (Aug 19, 2018)

Thanks for the tips. Right now it’s just her tail that’s kind of bad though it’s not too terrible. I’ll see if she lets me wrap a wet cloth around it for a few seconds to see if I can loosen it. 

When do you all let mom and baby back with the herd unsupervised? So far we’ve done a few meet and greets; first through some fencing and then while I held the kid. I’m most worried about the herd queen. She can sometimes be very pushy but she also seems more interested in getting into and exploring the stall rather than checking out the kid.


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## Latestarter (Aug 19, 2018)

My kids were all born in the pen/shelter with all the other goats, including the buck. Had no issues or injuries. A bit of confusion amongst the does as to whose kid(s) were whose... Since Bang and Dot each delivered their first at the same time, on top of each other, and Bang is the queen, even after they each had their second kid (4 feet apart and I assisted with Dot's), Bang kinda "stole" one of Dot's and raised it as her own. Dot sometimes nursed one of Bangs kids but mostly just stuck with the one Bang left her. Once the kid is up and mobile, it generally can stay out of the way of any adult that doesn't want to be bothered. So, after 3-4 days, it should be fine.


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 19, 2018)

So...I’m a bit of a control freak . Lol.

Fact: by 3-4 days, the kids move well enough to stay out of the way, as long as the space they are in isn’t too small. Some also let the doe mingle with her herd mates for about 15 minutes each day to ease her transition back into the herd.

My method: pull doe when she gets close (like within a week/depending on signs) and then I keep her and the kids separate for two weeks. We also offer an area that only the kids can get into so that they can hide from a meaner doe if need be. (Think like a creep feed gate-but we don’t creep our Nigerians.) They learn fast to stay out of the mean queen’s way.

Edited to add: I like to add them back to the herd of an evening so that everyone is about ready to bed down and that doesn’t give them the whole day to get pushed around.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 19, 2018)

Kids are more like deer fawns in that they hide out the first couple weeks.  This works well if you provide kids a place to hide.  Tractor tire with drainage holes so it will not hold water works well.  So do the dogloo dog house.  You just want to ensure bigger kids do not pile up on smaller if it gets cold.

I pen my kids with mom for at least 2 or 3 days.  If all is well then they go out into the 1/3 acre lot with rest of herd.  But, when rest of herd goes out to free range I hold kids younger than two weeks old back.   Almost always a momma volunteers to stay back and babysit. These youngsters are bad to tire, lay down, go to sleep, and herd moves off.  Then I have a clueless momma screaming for her lost kids when they come back in...and I spend an hour hunting kids.  By the time kids are 2 weeks old they keep up with momma.

Mine are standard size Nubians.  With the mini I would be concerned hawk, eagle, coyote, or even a fox would take one if out on  free range.


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## lomine (Aug 19, 2018)

Seems everyone has a different way of doing things, makes sense. 

I guess with this little one I’m being extremely cautious, considering she’s my first newborn and her rough start in life. I’m not comfortable letting her out in the corral unsupervised yet. I think I’ll stick with short herd visits until I feel she can make her way around easily. 

My other FF should be due to kid at the end of the week. I think I’ll put both moms together in the stall. It’s 12x12 so plenty of room. That leaves the herd queen out on her own but I think she’ll be okay for a few days.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 20, 2018)

Be careful of water buckets as kids can jump in and drown.... Had it happen to my first kids, but she got out ok.    I do not have water bucket in kidding pen.  I offer water twice a day and remove bucket if I am not there.


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## lomine (Aug 21, 2018)

Thanks for the tip. Most of my buckets are hanging off the ground but I do have a couple sitting on the ground. 

Kid and mom were out with the others today. I witnessed the kid get off and on the wood ‘deck’ so I felt she would be okay outside. Mom is very attentive and the other two does have shown no signs of agresstion toward her. Kid got to meet dad through the fence too. He blubbered at her.


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## Spokeless Wheel (Aug 23, 2018)

What happened ? Sometimes you need to help pull as they push when the time comes.  Just need to make sure both front legs and nose is coming at you. If that isn't the presentation you may need to call a vet or handle it yourself. Handling it yourself includes pushing back and reaching in and realigning the the head and feet. I've walked people through this over the phone. Sometimes they come ass first. Never happened to me yet so I can not give advice on that type of delivery.


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## Spokeless Wheel (Aug 23, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Be careful of water buckets as kids can jump in and drown.... Had it happen to my first kids, but she got out ok.    I do not have water bucket in kidding pen.  I offer water twice a day and remove bucket if I am not there.


  My momma goats with babies have flat dog dish pans with water at all times. Mother goat needs as much water as she can consume to help make milk.  I don't believe in limiting water at all.


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## lomine (Aug 23, 2018)

Spokeless Wheel said:


> What happened ? Sometimes you need to help pull as they push when the time comes.  Just need to make sure both front legs and nose is coming at you. If that isn't the presentation you may need to call a vet or handle it yourself. Handling it yourself includes pushing back and reaching in and realigning the the head and feet. I've walked people through this over the phone. Sometimes they come ass first. Never happened to me yet so I can not give advice on that type of delivery.


The active contractions/pushing part of the labor wasn’t actually very long. She started really pushing around 8 that night and the kid was on the ground around 8:20. At one point mom stopped pushing hard. I think she was just really tired from a long day of labor pains. The kid’s nose was out at that point. I put one finger in to see if I could feel where the feet were, in case they were in the wrong position. Luckily they were right where they needed to be and me checking seemed to stimulate mom so she started pushing again. 

After that the kid came pretty smoothly and the dead kid just sort of slid out right after. There was no second bubble from that kid and I think the brownish discharge coming from mom all day was the embiotic fluid from that kid. I think maybe that’s what caused her to go into labor early. Of course, that’s just a guess. 

Adelind is doing very well. She and mom are with the others full time now. There were a few times I wasn’t sure if she’d make it but she’s a fighter. It’s a memorable first labor and I wouldn’t want to do it again but its made me more confident in what kinds of situations I can handle.


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## Spokeless Wheel (Aug 23, 2018)

Wonderful ! Just what we all love to hear. Sorry you lost the one but at least you have one.  Good luck in the future.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 23, 2018)

Kid wreck is what I call them.  Goats do not fool around in labor, so if not productive after three or four contractions ( every push should reveal more kid) it is a good idea to check.  You will not hurt anyone by doing a quick pelvic.  Wash your hands well and the does vulva, then lube your fingers, reach in feel what is going on.  
I can sort out a kid wreck easier when everyone is alive and not exhausted.  Nice thing about goats is usually if you can get a foot and head of same kid you can work them out.  Can not do that with a calf!  And a kid coming backwards can be eased out even with one leg presenting.    My worst nightmare is when doe just looks stunned, labor does not progress, not any drainage, you reach in and feel a furry tongue?!?  That is a kid's rear end plugging birth canal and it's tail hanging out!!!  Or I reach in and it feels like running my finger along a picket fence!!!??  That is a kid bent in two and trying to come ribcage first!!!  
Always it is either triplets or quads and a real booger trying to get everyone shifted enough to have room to maneuver.


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## MiniSilkys (Sep 28, 2018)

lomine said:


> I have a ND doe who is a FF (also my very first labor). The earliest she could be due according to the calculator and the date the buck came would be 8/18 but according to vet and my guess it should be more like 8/25.
> 
> Right now she is panting, talking a lot, and pawing her belly. She also has this dark colored discharge. She is clearing uncomfortable. Also her udder grew a lot since yesterday. Is this labor?
> View attachment 51209


My first pygmy for was 30 days from giving birth when I bought her. Before she went into labor she had discharge like that. She gave birth to a tiny doeling that died within 15 minutes and 30 minutes later had a blown up buckling that had no eyes of fur. I guess he had died around the time I bought the for and poisoned the doeling in the womb.


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