# New Goat Owner just lost a young doe - question



## Jea (Aug 4, 2016)

So, we are new goat owners.  Our goats are pets and we have two guernsey goat does (17 wks and 14wks.) 10 days ago, we decided to add two nubian wethers to our herd (15wks) and while we were picking them up, another nubian doe kid that was at the farm screamed after them, so we took her too.  The wethers are very outgoing and friendly immediately. They ate well and seemed to fit right in.  The nubian doe (bebe) was smaller, very very timid and really just stayed near the wethers.  She ate and drank, but seemed so shy. Her original owner said she had been very sick at 2 months old and was nursed back to health. 

She came from a dry lot and our goat yard has a lot weeds and leafy things for them to graze, (which she did) and we started to see some scours so we started her on Corid late last week. She was slowly warming up to us, and allowing us to pet her.  Then yesterday morning, after the goats all ate breakfast we saw her just standing in one spot seeming out of it. Her body seemed to be shaking slightly and she seemed spacey. We called the vet and they recommended some vitamin B (which we gave her, and also shot some electrolytes into her mouth.)  At 3p, she wasn't any better so we took her to the vet. She had a high temp (107) and he said "bacterial infection, viral infection or rabies." He gave her an antibiotic shot and we were supposed to follow up with 3 more.  Then, this morning, she was dead on the barn floor. 

We are just so sad that we lost this goat. She was such a sweet girl. We did drop her back at the vet so they could confirm it wasn't rabies (or we'll all need treatment) but I wanted to see if anyone has experienced something like this. We're concerned for our other 4 goats.  We took all their temps this morning and each was 102.4 and 102.3.  They are all active and eating/drinking, but this came on so fast it has us really freaked out.

Any ideas on this? It doesn't sound like we're going to get a clear diagnosis from the vet, just a confirmation that it wasn't rabies and advise to just "watch the others." So I wanted to see if anyone had any ideas on what could have caused this or what might have happened.


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## NH homesteader (Aug 4, 2016)

I don't have any idea what it could be,  but I wanted to say welcome as it looks like you're new.  And also that I am sorry about your little doe! It's rough to start out with something like this and I imagine as new goat owners you're more than a little overwhelmed and worried! 

Now I'll step aside and wait for the experts!


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## babsbag (Aug 4, 2016)

Welcome to BYH and I am sorry that a losing a goat was your introduction to raising them. Goats are hard... that being said my first suspicion is what your vet must have thought at first too...Thiamine deficiency which can be brought on with the use of Corid. It doesn't happen often, many people use Corid on their goats, but there is that chance. While Vit B is the correct treatment it needs to be Thiamine in particular and not just a Vit. B complex. It needs to be a lot of Thiamine. 

Now if that wasn't it then it could have been any number of infections, just like your vet said and there is no way to really know without a necropsy being done. 

The scours could have just been from the diet change, or from cocci, but without a fecal test being done you are just guessing. Many of us do that from time to time, but the fecal test is really the best option.


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 4, 2016)

A higher grade fever usually means a viral infection 
107 is pretty darn high


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## Latestarter (Aug 4, 2016)

Sorry you started out this way, but welcome to BYH and hopefully all the great goat folks we have here can help you in future issues. Browse around the forum and you'll find a wealth of shared info, knowledge and experiences. When you feel inclined, comment or post away! Make yourself at home here. Glad you joined us.


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## norseofcourse (Aug 4, 2016)

Welcome from Ohio, and I'm sorry you lost the little doeling.  I hope the rabies comes back negative.

Maybe whatever she had at 2 months was still in her system?


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## Jea (Aug 4, 2016)

Thank you for the replies.  We are waiting to get the confirmation about the rabies, but when we brought her in, the vet gave her three shots of thiamine and a shot of antibiotic, but he did say the fever was really high and that 2 more degrees would be brain damage. He said if it wasn't rabies, his guess would be some type of infection. 

I appreciate the input. We are just hoping the other 4 stay healthy. We cleaned out the entire barn today, replaced all the hay and scrubbed the platforms they sleep on.  We are going to keep taking temperatures on the other 4 to make sure this doesn't spread. This has us nervous about making the wrong move.   

Thanks again


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## Southern by choice (Aug 4, 2016)

Sounds like Polio. Goat polio can look similar to enterotoxemia. With such a high fever sounds like polio.

I am so sorry you lost her.
Corid is often recommended by vets that work with cattle. Most goat vets  and goat producers use di-methox. 

As @babsbag  said  the Thiamine needed is Rx.  Simple b-complex injectable that you find over the counter is not enough. 

The move more than likely caused a stress bloom and that weakens the immune so there could have been more than one issue.

Hopefully all the goats have had 2 CD & T vaccinations.
A fecal on all the goats would be a good idea.

Welcome to BYH, we hope you stay with us and join the community!


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## TAH (Aug 5, 2016)

Welcome!!
Sorry you lost her.


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## babsbag (Aug 5, 2016)

The thought of rabies is terrifying. Did the seller give you any indication of what was wrong with her previously? The fact that your vet did the thiamine injections is a good sign...he seems to know goats and that is always helpful. Goats can just go downhill so fast sometimes no matter what we try it doesn't work. Hope the rest of your little herd stays healthy.


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## Jea (Aug 5, 2016)

babsbag said:


> The thought of rabies is terrifying. Did the seller give you any indication of what was wrong with her previously? The fact that your vet did the thiamine injections is a good sign...he seems to know goats and that is always helpful. Goats can just go downhill so fast sometimes no matter what we try it doesn't work. Hope the rest of your little herd stays healthy.



The previous owner said she experienced something similar at 2 months. Sudden high fever and spacey behavior.  They said a vet gave her anti-biotics and she recovered.  The 2 nubian wethers have had 1 round of Cd&T and the previous owner said we need to get them a second round . The guernsey does are fully vaccinated. 

I appreciate the advice on doing fecals. We hadn't thought of that. We will do that. The vet is coming to our farm for a check of all of the goats on the 11th.  Should we be asking for blood tests from them to test for any issues?


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 5, 2016)

Are those the gurnsey's in your avatar?

Would love to see an updated picture.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 5, 2016)

Fecals are the most important factor in any herd management.
They are critical when bringing in (transport) any goat, young or old.
Never accept "they don't look wormy" as an answer from a vet.
This will save you time, money, and heartache!
Coccidiosis is a kid killer but depending on weather conditions etc adult goats can sometimes also get coccidiosis the disease.
Cocci and Worm parasites are two different things and use different products to treat.
If kids have cocci - products like Di-methox or baycox are best. Many cattle vets or vets not all to familiar with goats give Corid. That is the worst product to give for goats.

As far as testing.
At a minimum all goats should be tested for CAE and Johnes. CL is advisable. BUT the goats must be 6 months or older. Preferably 8 months.
Johnes serum test is really only good at 18 months, however we run all our test at the same time regardless.


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## Hens and Roos (Aug 5, 2016)

sorry for you loss


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## Jea (Aug 6, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> Are those the gurnsey's in your avatar?
> 
> Would love to see an updated picture.








Here are the 5 goats from last week (bebe is the one that is gone.)


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## Jea (Aug 6, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Fecals are the most important factor in any herd management.
> They are critical when bringing in (transport) any goat, young or old.
> Never accept "they don't look wormy" as an answer from a vet.
> This will save you time, money, and heartache!
> ...



We did have cocci with the first two goats a week after we brought them home, which was a real learning experience for us (a fecal by the vet confirmed it) and he had us use the Corid.  We are now using Corid as preventative. Is that a good idea? The vet recommended a 21 day cycle of watered down corid, but we're trying to be cautious here and I'm sure we could see a different vet and maybe get a different opinion.

btw, we took temps today (middle of day and it's hot) one doe was 102.1, one doe was 103.1 and the two nubian wethers were 103.6 and 103.7.  

I will get them tested for CAE, Johnes and CL at 6-8 months range. thanks


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 6, 2016)

Jea said:


> Here are the 5 goats from last week (bebe is the one that is gone.)



Bebe was a pretty girl.  Very sorry you lost her.
We've been breeding goats for 7 years and have been through what you are going through now.
It will never get easy.

I love those Gurnsey's.
How did you come about getting them?
You don't see a lot of people with them.


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## Jea (Aug 6, 2016)

The gurnsey's are so dog-like to me.  I love the nubians but so far they've shown us more that they are screaming, eating machines. I still give them the same amount of love and care for them, but they are all about food. The gurnsey personality is really different. 

We buy raw honey from a beekeeper up the street. She also makes goat cheese and told us about her friend nearby that breeds gurnsey goats. This past spring, we mentioned that we were building a goat house and would soon look to brings goats into our lives as pets. She said occasionally her breeder friend has a goat that cannot be registered and she would let us know if that happens.  In May it happened twice.  We got a call that she had two goats (one was polled but had sort of a skin tag on her teat - we call her hildy and another one that I'm not sure why she couldn't register.  She raises all her gurnseys as bottle babies.) She wanted to place them as pets-only since she couldn't register them and we were lucky enough to be chosen to take them. We've had them since July 3 and we adore them.  We lost a dog late last year and the darker gurnsey reminds us so much of her sweet personality (far more than our new naughty puppy-in-training does (shown.))  She greets us with a head cocked to the side and presses it against your leg when you're near.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 6, 2016)

@OneFineAcre  said it best... it will never get easy.

Made me happy and sad seeing the video. It is just a horrible feeling to lose a goat.  Beautiful! All of them!

I would ask your vet about some other options. Corid can cause thiamine deficiency. 

Many goat breeders use Di-Methox or Toltrazuril (Baycox) as preventative. Some use medicated feed for young goats up to 6 months.

It is great you said the temp and it was taken in the heat of the day!
Best to take temp early morning or evening when you aren't battling heat and hot sun! 
Keep an eye on Nubian wethers, take temp when they are in a cooler place. It could be like you said the time of day... but if not then that is fever range especially on young kids.


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## TAH (Aug 6, 2016)

They are super cute


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 6, 2016)

Jea said:


> The gurnsey's are so dog-like to me.  I love the nubians but so far they've shown us more that they are screaming, eating machines. I still give them the same amount of love and care for them, but they are all about food. The gurnsey personality is really different.
> 
> We buy raw honey from a beekeeper up the street. She also makes goat cheese and told us about her friend nearby that breeds gurnsey goats. This past spring, we mentioned that we were building a goat house and would soon look to brings goats into our lives as pets. She said occasionally her breeder friend has a goat that cannot be registered and she would let us know if that happens.  In May it happened twice.  We got a call that she had two goats (one was polled but had sort of a skin tag on her teat - we call her hildy and another one that I'm not sure why she couldn't register.  She raises all her gurnseys as bottle babies.) She wanted to place them as pets-only since she couldn't register them and we were lucky enough to be chosen to take them. We've had them since July 3 and we adore them.  We lost a dog late last year and the darker gurnsey reminds us so much of her sweet personality (far more than our new naughty puppy-in-training does (shown.))  She greets us with a head cocked to the side and presses it against your leg when you're near.


They are lovely girls


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## Jea (Aug 7, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> @OneFineAcre  said it best... it will never get easy.
> 
> Made me happy and sad seeing the video. It is just a horrible feeling to lose a goat.  Beautiful! All of them!
> 
> ...




All temps today were 102.1-102.4. phew!

We're going to keep taking them each week so nothing creeps up.  thanks!


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## Fullhousefarm (Aug 7, 2016)

Did you hear back from the vet?

I had a Nigerian spike a 106.7 fever this week. Scared me to death. She was a little off that morning, but if she wasn't being milked I might not have noticed. She ate, didn't have a fever, just seemed slower than normal. We've been battling a horrible bacterial thing here on the farm, so honestly, I figured she was the next one to get it and separated her. Watched her in the afternoon and seemed the same. Went out that evening and she was VERY slow. Wouldn't eat. Brought her in the milk room and she layed down, so I immediately took her temp. It was 106.7. Checked healthy goats temp to make sure it wasn't the thermometer. It's hot here in FL, so I brought her in the laundry room and put a fan on her and gave her banamine. Fever was gone in 30 min and she was eating and perky. Talked to a goat mentor (because of coarse, vet was closed) and decided to go with a coarse of Pen G as long as fever didn't come back- and it didn't even when banamine wore off. I'm very glad I got the banamine to keep on hand from my vet. She's back to normal, but I finished the 5 days of PenG to be sure.

So, all that to say, it's hard to know with goats. But, banamine might be something good to talk to your vet about keeping on hand- even just 1-2 doses so you have some until the vet opens on a weekend.


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## babsbag (Aug 7, 2016)

I also had an 8 week old doeling with a temp of 107.1 this week. She was just a little off, took her bottle but didn't scream for it and then went and laid down. I gave her a does of banamine and Noramycin and she seemed fine the next day. Did another dose of antibiotics and will do another tomorrow. It is long acting so I do it every 36 hours. My guess is pneumonia.  Only one this year and when you kid out 50 kids that is pretty good. All my does get a pneumonia vaccine a few months before kidding and it has make a huge difference in the health of my herd and kids overall. But this little kid was not from one of my does.


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## Jea (Aug 9, 2016)

No rabies. We're not going to learn what caused her death, but it wasn't rabies.


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## babsbag (Aug 9, 2016)

Whew. Glad that is behind you.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 10, 2016)

We had one of our new doe kids we got turn up with pneumonia so we did a 5 day pen G course...she seems better no coughing and perkier. Never yet had one off our does with pneumonia we also dont vaccinate for it though.


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