# Extremely shy and non social goat getting bullied?



## ellacantcountx3 (Feb 9, 2012)

There is one goat out of the six I have that is just extremely shy and will not come around. We've had him since December. I know he gets bullied by the others and it afraid to eat or drink. I have tried holding him and feeding him and making him get used to contact but it always ends the same. He seems so upset and it hurts me to see this. The others ram him in the pen, won't let him eat or play. I'm worried for his well being!


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## capretta (Mar 26, 2012)

That's weird! Goats generally have really open personalities!

Is this little guy sick? Or in pain? That's the only thing I can come up with for his behavior! Is he/she any smaller than the other goats? Younger? Are the rest of them bucks (or does) and this guy a wether? I know bucks can be pretty hard on wethers  Just one last question, did these goats grow up together? Or did you get them from various breeders?

Would you consider adding another member to the herd? He might just be lonely, and sometimes two loners can stand up to the bullies


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## nomad (Mar 26, 2012)

ellacantcountx3 said:
			
		

> There is one goat out of the six I have that is just extremely shy and will not come around. We've had him since December. I know he gets bullied by the others and it afraid to eat or drink. I have tried holding him and feeding him and making him get used to contact but it always ends the same. He seems so upset and it hurts me to see this. The others ram him in the pen, won't let him eat or play. I'm worried for his well being!


Goats possess a very strict hierarchy in their social structure.  We have raised many different breeds of meat and dairy goats and have always found this to be true.  There is a definite delineation from the alpha members right down to the omega members.  Occasionally there will be a slight shuffling of hierarchy when someone tries to move up the social ladder and this will be evident by 2 members fighting for a while until they understand who is dominant.  When we were running 250 Boer does on our last farm, we had a large, strong doe (we named her Alpha Doe) who ate what she wanted and when she wanted with all others knowing their place behind her.   

What we do when we have a very subordinate goat (kid or adult) is separate him/her out with the next goat up on the social ladder and allow them to be penned together if they are to be kept in a barn.  If they are kept outside in a larger area where they will tend not to be cornered and beat up, then you will have to provide at least 2 eating areas (one for the more dominant goats and one for the more subordinate).   Sometimes some goats are so submissive that they fear everyone and will not thrive no matter what you do - we cull these from the herd since they are detrimental to our operation.  If you desire to keep him, then you will most likely have to have other provisions for him otherwise he will be bullied into poor health via stress.  By the way, scientific studies have shown that socially challenged animals are the least healthy in a herd due to their timidness preventing them from aggressively seeking proper nourishment.  Again, we watch for these types of animals and cull them.

Hope you can make it work.


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## ksalvagno (Mar 26, 2012)

Have you tried putting him and one other goat in a separate area, at least for eating? You may want to find a younger goat and then pen him up with that one and make another small herd for the time being. Then eventually bring them back into the herd. If he has someone that he can be a true buddy with, then maybe he won't be so timid.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 26, 2012)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Have you tried putting him and one other goat in a separate area, at least for eating? You may want to find a younger goat and then pen him up with that one and make another small herd for the time being. Then eventually bring them back into the herd. If he has someone that he can be a true buddy with, then maybe he won't be so timid.


I think this is your only option.  If you don't the submissive goat will eventually fail to thrive.  In the wild he would have been eaten by now.  If this doesn't work, the kindest thing would be to sell him to someone who will keep him as a pet with another goat of the same ilk.

The biggest danger to an animal in a herd is to be anthropomorphized by it's human owner.  You need to think like a goat to be able to solve the problems of goats.   

It's not a matter of the other goats being "mean" to him, it's a matter of them separating the weak from the strong and him not being able to adjust to the hierarchy of the herd.  It's the way herd animals are.  You can't "make" the other goats "like him".  He has to stand on his own two feet or he will not survive.


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## SDBoerGoats (Mar 26, 2012)

I took one of my young ones out of the pen this weekend for that reason. Every one bullied him, he is over 3 months and his mom pretty much ignored him now. Put him in a pen with his brother and another wether, and they are all fine, eating like little pigs. But he has friends he can get close to now. I have 2 new goats I got a couple of weeks ago that were being totally bullied, not allowed to eat around the manger, which is a huge manger so many goats can eat around it, but not for them! I took 3 of my horse mangers and hung them around the corner on the panels and filled them with hay, and the new girls ran to it, so happy to have their own place to eat. 
I would definitely move him and give him a friend to buddy up to, at least if you put them out with the others later, he will have a friend. I just can't stand to watch a goat being bullied and not allowed to eat or drink. But goats can be mean to each other!


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 27, 2012)

It may help him if you pull him out with one of other goats that is also lower on the pecking order, and have them become budies. then put them back in the herd just during the day and pen them separate at night, I found this has helped some of mine. But I still have one that will not go into any shelter with the bigger does and she is big herself, and I always have to make special accomidations for her in wet or colder weather and make sure she is getting enough to eat if there isn't any pasture. It is a pain, and honestly in many herds she would be culled, I realize you more than likely have a pet herd, but you will need to make your timid goat a separate eating area.


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## KinderKorner (Mar 27, 2012)

We have a large problem with this in our herd. 

It seems no matter what every time we add a new doe or does to the herd they never fit in.

My nubians have been here almost a year now and they still get chased out of the barn and off the food.

I just got two new does and they barely even come inside and if they do they sleep right at the door.

I have several older does who get along with no one. They only sleep and eat with their babies and they will chase any other goat away.

Then I have one group of 2 year olds who all grew up together. They are friends and get along with nearly everyone. 

The herd queen gets along with no one.

The Nubians are scared of everything and everyone.

The yearlings only get along with their mamas.

And my new does are scared of everything and everyone.

Which means although we only have 13 does and a 10x30 shelter. Most of the time half the herd sleeps outside because they get rammed.

It also means only one or two goats will share the over 10 ft long manager.



Feeding time here is a mess. I have to put out at least 5 different hay feeding places, and even then several of the goats don't eat. 

I am so thankful spring is here so the more timid goats will at least be able to eat grass. They just never eat as much, and as others have said they don't thrive.

These aren't babies getting picked on either. They are full grown goats that have been here for years.


We also do the seperating with the other lowest goats on the pecking order. It gives them some 'friends' that at least they don't have to run from all day. 

But if a goat is just too shy to stick up for themselves and eat, it's nearly impossible to keep them healthy. I have to baby the nubians. They just won't eat. It drives me crazy,I actually have to stand out there with them while they eat if I want them to get any at all. I constantly worry about their weight.

I'd like to give you hope, but honestly it never gets better.

If you wish to keep the picked on goats you will have to make arrangements for them to have their own place to eat and sleep.

As said before in large commercial herds the timid goats are culled.


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## Queen Mum (Mar 27, 2012)

KinderKorner said:
			
		

> We have a large problem with this in our herd.
> 
> It seems no matter what every time we add a new doe or does to the herd they never fit in.
> 
> ...


'

Wow!  You need to start over and sort this whole mess out.  It should NOT be that way.

A herd queen should keep the herd in control but not beat everyone up.  The queen gets to eat first and best but not everything.  The subordinate does should always be able to eat.  They need to be separated into groups by temperament, kept apart for a while and then re-integrated by group.  The bullies need some correction in their behavior.  This can and should be done quickly and firmly.


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