# Horses to slaughter



## lilchick (Sep 10, 2010)

My first post here on this forum.... I go to an animal auctions 2 times a month and see chickens, ducks and turkeys sold to individuals like me and some do go to slaughter.  
This same sale barn has a horse auction on 3rd Sat. of each month.  I noticed several nice looking horses in back lots of sale barn running and eating from the hay bales.  A nice haflinger  mare and baby and a palamino mini mare also.  Then I noticed a spirited black and white colt running and just lifting up his feet like a tenn. walker.  proud of himself for sure and even had shoes on.  There were a few people petting the ones closest to the fence and they were not culls these were nice looking horses...  I inquire from the owner about them and he said the kill buyer had bought them the week before and his truck broke down and he had not been able to pick them up yet..
 So horses do go to slaughter and it makes me sick to even think about it.  I have shetland ponies and a few minis and the boys all got  gelded this year to stop the babies..... my thoughts are that I will keep and care for mine and not send any to the sale barn...


----------



## goodhors (Sep 11, 2010)

Reading information around the nation, since we have no slaughter plants in the USA, horse situations and prices have gone down the toilet.  Locally you often cannot GIVE AWAY FREE horses that don't sell.  People can not afford to have their lame, old, damaged animals put down because the Vet Euth prices, hole digging for burial, add up to $200-300 or more.

The price of cheap horses has ALWAY been dictated by what they will bring at slaughter.  Slaughter held up the horse industry financially because there was always a place to take the animal if all other disposal methods were not useful.

So what seems to be happening with the unwanted horses is dumping.  People going to some unseen location, turning the equines loose, putting them in someone's pasture or corral.  Someone I know found two horses IN THEIR TRAILER at the TSC store!!  Another person I know found THREE horses tied to her trailer at the local trail ride parking lot when she got back from her ride!!  Both happened last fall. What do you do with them?? 

Out west, dumped horses are found starving in the desert, wandering on public lands in bad condition.  Those animals have no idea where to find food or water, owners would have been kinder to just shoot them after unloading, save horse the torment. 

Local shelters, humane society, animal control is totally overwhelmed with horse issues and no facilities to deal with them.  Sometimes the person finding the animals is left with them!!  I sure could not manage horses I found wandering loose, no space!!

I imagine with fall now coming, there will be more "found" horses because the summer owner can't afford hay now that pasture will be gone.  Craigslist is FULL of free horses, some have issues, lame, old, too young from careless breeding, that no one wants.  Other free horses, even usable, may still not be taken for many reasons.

Horses COST MONEY and time to own.  No "free ride" came from that fact!

These animals must go SOMEPLACE, like unwanted dogs and cats.  The kill buyer is a needed person in the horse community.  He will gladly sell you any of those pretty or cute animals for a price.  We had a local killer guy years ago, got some nice animals from him then.  He also picked up the infirm, aged, sick ones for disposal.  That pretty much is what happened back then with most horses.  Few buried them on the farm in those days.  

But if no one else wants those equines, then they still have to go someplace and the kill buyer is the only one with his hand up.  Most folks with a kind heart are overloaded with horses.  Rescues have NO MORE ROOM or money to feed them.  You can't save them all.  Some are not worth saving they will HURT you, though they may LOOK nice.  Brains are fried, often injured past repair. 

So my best advice is to stay away from the horse pens at the auction.  Cattle and other livestock go the same way, when sold, the killer buyers take them.  They are just too big to deal with in quantity, out on the little farmettes.  Owners have sold them because they can't deal with those animals any more.  Killer buyer makes sure they don't have to suffer a dragged out, painful path before dying.


----------



## michickenwrangler (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm personally in favor of bringing back the "neighborhood knacker" or allowing small slaughterhouses to process horses. Sell the meat cheaply for dog food or bear bait. In the old days, poor people would often buy horsemeat from the knacker and nearly everyone who had a dog bought horsemeat as canned dog food was more expensive.

Most other countries (with large horse populations) have a system like the above.

The American Indians also used to eat their old and lame horses even though they are always romanticized as a "horse culture."

Montana has legislation in the works to bring back horse slaughter in that state. The ranchers are heavily affected by it and want it back.


----------



## adoptedbyachicken (Sep 11, 2010)

I agree a local way of processing horses should be available to all.  Getting the Vet out to put down a horse is not the best option in many cases.  Having a thousand pounds of toxic waste to deal with rather than potential food for dogs, wildlife parks and even humans seems to me to be just wrong.

However the old system of shipping them thousands of miles in trucks made for cattle to a processor that handled them poorly had to end too, so hopefully soon this will all come together.

In this area you used to have 2 options.  Both stopped due to rude ill informed folks haunting and hassling the business operators!  One was a dog food company that would come and get your horse, you could drop it off, or they would kill on your property if you wanted it that way, they took the whole carcass.  The second was the local large wildlife park that would come and kill on your property, they left the gut pile so you still needed to be quite rural or dig a hole.


----------



## goatgirl4008 (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm glad there are others out there that think like I do. When there were horse slaughterhouses here there was inspections, big brother was watching. Now the animals are being shipped long distances to end up in mexican slaughter houses that are just nonregulated disaster areas for the animals. Like all industries there is always room for improvement. But these people with high profile names and money. Got horse slaughter banned good for them where are they now? With rescues full to capacity and still more horses beening dumped. And others in less than suitable situations. We have even had a small rescue in my state that the owners are facing animal cruelty charges. It is a necassary evil but isn't a bullet to the head a more humane death than starving? The people that dump their horses I'm sure feel this is the last resort. We need something in place as a temporary assistance with feed and hay to the folks having difficult struggles. We have taking in a retired broodmare and if the chance comes up we will take in a couple more.  But it all comes down to what is the best way to deal with broken down,old and those that just can't be broke to ride. The best way for the animal would be a quick humane ending and if that is slaughter than that's the way it should be.


----------



## lilchick (Sep 12, 2010)

You made some excellent points here about slaughtering horses.  I know that it made it worse ( ironic isn't it)  for the horses when they closed them down. 
 It dropped the market right out when they shut down the plants in U.S.. And the economy isn't helping either..  

 It is sad that I cannot give away a pony yet one of my dwarf minis sold for 1,000.00!
Just because they are tiny and cute and make house pets...

 The 2 in my avatar are dwarves named Dainty and Buster.


----------



## LauraM (Sep 12, 2010)

OMG............there are SOOO FEW realistic and knowledgeable and practical horse people on these internet forums nowadays!!  

 

Sooooo good to see some more people that actually understand what shutting down the slaughter industry in the USA has done to worsen the horse economy and put horses in a FAR WORSE situation than before!  

Excellent posts!


----------



## Beekissed (Sep 12, 2010)

I agree with this so much!  These horses can be repurposed into food for pets, glue, the hides can be used....so much better than dying a slow and horrible death.  

I also wonder why the same people who really see the sense in having horse slaughter can advocate all the no kill animal shelters.  When they stopped killing the unwanted, excess dogs and cats this nation went into a crisis with the millions of animals that have to be fed and sheltered by under funded shelters.  

Its really time to bring all the common sense solutions back into the picture and keep all the bleeding heart sentimentality out of the pet animal world.  The spay/neuter programs are just inadequate for dealing with this growing problem and there will always be unresponsible pet owners and breeders....so time to reinstitute the kill shelters.

If not that, send all the unwanted dogs to the third world countries that see these animals as a valuable food source.  Let someone get some good use out of them.


----------



## michickenwrangler (Sep 13, 2010)

LauraM said:
			
		

> OMG............there are SOOO FEW realistic and knowledgeable and practical horse people on these internet forums nowadays!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. I have noticed the tide turning with the economy, more people are in favor of horse slaughter.

Someone started a thread like this on the chicken forum and I think it had to be closed 

BTW, these people who think the whole "mustangs = spirit of the west = American freedom, blah blah blah" I have this argument:

Horses lived in North America during the Ice Age. Mastodons and Mammoths also lived here too. All went extinct about the same time, through more or less natural means.

Now, if I were to loose a herd of Indian Elephants loose in the South with the justification that "these animals lived here once and are a symbol of America's past," I would probably be arrested and heavily fined.

Feel free to rebutt if you wish anyone.


----------



## apdan (Sep 13, 2010)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Now, if I were to loose a herd of Indian Elephants loose in the South with the justification that "these animals lived here once and are a symbol of America's past," I would probably be arrested and heavily fined.


OMG Could you imagine the media on that one!!! IT WOULD BE CRAZY!!!!


----------



## adoptedbyachicken (Sep 13, 2010)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Now, if I were to loose a herd of Indian Elephants loose in the South


Double dog dare ya!  

My that would be an interesting thing to say the least.  

Most people don't think back as far as you.  They see horses as a big part of the romantic settling of this land by Europeans.  They choose not to see the arrival of the Spaniards long before that who did not to take their horses back with them and turned them feral.  Thus, Spanish Barb is now the 'Mustang' blood they look for in testing the herds to see which ones are the originals.


----------



## michickenwrangler (Sep 13, 2010)

I suppose I could always argue that "Indians" ride elepants too. 

Aw c'mon, a lot of these people saw "Brother Bear." It came out around the same time as "Spirit."


----------



## goodhors (Sep 13, 2010)

Unfortunately what most folks see about horse slaughter is the rough handling, non-enforcement of the laws-in-place for haulers.  Seeing hurt or damaged animals being loaded by the killer buyer is harsh reality, yet something has to be done with them.  And for whatever reason, many folks relate more closely to horses than other livestock going to slaughter.  They regard equines more as pets than true livestock, even weighing in at 1000# or more pounds.

And with all USA slaughter plants closed, the killer horses can have a LONG ride to Mexico or Canada where their plants are located.  Often the animals are not cared for well while enroute.  People see the trucks or trailers at stops with bad looking animals, find out they are slaughter animals, and the visible bad handling/care makes it even worse in their viewpoint.

Laws for handling of the animals headed for slaughter are well-written, just NOT ENFORCED.  I have been hauling my horses for years, have NEVER been stopped to check my inter-state Health Certificate, Coggins papers while on the road.  Sometimes a show or clinic I am going to will want to see the papers, never any State officials.  I know Florida is quite rigid for enforcing stops to check paperwork on animals, in AND out, hay you are carrying.  If you do NOT STOP, they will chase you down and send you back!  Kentucky will check and stop trailers if there is a KY Health Warning issued for certain states with diseases preventing entry to the State.  KY does send those trailers home and not allow them to stay in-State.

Now MI has to have Piroplasmosis paperwork done before importing horses from infected states, including Indiana!  That takes a couple weeks to get done, test is only good for 2 weeks!!  We just got a horse in from an infected state, almost needed a second test because hauler had a load destination changed when he was going to pick her up!  List of states infected keeps getting longer.  Are the State Inspectors sitting on the incoming highways?  No.  Those Auction horses every Friday should NOT be crossing MI to reach Canada without proper State Inspection!!  That doesn't happen so far as I know.

So I see lots of the noisiest folks talking about animal rescue who don't have good information.  They have no idea of the repercussions that take place when you close down plants.  Kind of like "rescuing the PMU horses and foals" a few years ago in Canada.  Didn't want the PMU animals going for meat!  We were inundated with advertising, force-fed horrible photos of abused animals to gain sympathy, from every horse agency.  They hauled HUNDREDS of nasty looking, badly bred animals, newly weaned foals who were too young, a few nice animals, sold them for small amounts (FREE animal for cost of hauling!) to flood the local horse markets across the nation.  Helpful folks thought they were "saving" horses from being on the meat lots.  Yet then those people couldn't buy NICE local horses because they had no room or money left after feeding and Vetting these sick PMU animals.  So the local horses went to Auction instead!!

So mostly what makes me angry is that good laws are ignored, when they should be enforced and the worst, visible problems could be pretty much cleaned up in the slaughter industry.

When wild horses ran free "in the old days" they had much larger ranges to cover without fencing.  Even being imported, they fit in the grazing  ecology, predators kept them thinned down.  Sick and injured ones died as part of the natural cycle of life.  They died from health issues like worm damage, infections, injuries of range living.  Modern wild horses on the ranges still have these problems, but without predators they increase too fast for their range, need thinning by the BLM.  They don't live to be old like pet horses are doing, with their 25+year expectation.  15yrs is OLD for the range animals, they are often worn out physically, without modern Vet care.


----------



## michickenwrangler (Sep 14, 2010)

For endurance riding, we get a lot of out of state horses coming in (IN for Lope Rides, WI for Yoop rides) and they have to send in their piroplasmosis test with Coggins.

Also, when transporting horses within MI, you are *supposed* to stop at the welcome center in St. Ignace although not many people do. It used to be a huge hassle while they checked everything. The guy who got us last Memorial Day was pretty quick about it and I was only there for about 4 minutes. Checked Coggins vs. Horse, checked to make sure I wasn't transporting any bovids and we were good to go.

Actually goodhors, I read an article about PMU horses in Alberta in Western Horseman back in 2001 or 2002-ish. The writer said that the conditions were not nearly as bad as he was led to believe. He saw that the mares could indeed lay down comfortably with their "bags on." They were in roomy tie stalls (writer pointed out that many working horses are in tie stalls). They were only water 2 per day, but they were allowed to drink their fill (writer pointed out that horses were watered like that for centuries). They were turned out once a day but since it was Alberta in the wintertime, most just hung out on the lee side of the barn. While certainly not as posh as some stables, it sounded like a livable life to me. Yes, the foals do go to slaughter, but why not?


----------



## michickenwrangler (Sep 14, 2010)

http://www.animallawcoalition.com/horse-slaughter/article/685

Well, it's legal in Montana now!!!

I hated the line at the bottom of the article, "To get in touch with your congressman to revive the sordid practice if horsekilling ... " 

Comments are entertaining as well.


----------



## goodhors (Sep 14, 2010)

I DID READ that article in Western Horseman!!  It was a really detailed, thought out, and comparative piece of writing.  They visited several farms, and did not think it was an abusive situation.  Horses are kept "differently" but all had free access to water, were well fed, in good condition, no holes or sores.  Things were CLEAN. Big remarks at the end were about comparing the barning to older, stanchion dairy operation, just not what newer horse folks expect to see for horses.  No abuse to be seen!!  Excellent journalism on a touchy topic.  Horsemen with horse keeping knowledge, viewing a situation for CORRECT information to report.  They were not bleeding hearts who whine if a horse doesn't have a 14' x 16' stall with food 3 times a day!

However I don't think many folks saw or read the article, who didn't do western riding!!  We bought some horses up in Canada in the mid-90's from a PMU farm.  We also had heard "bad stuff" and I was very curious about what we would find.  I found it quite like an old dairy barn as well!  The manager gave us the tour, explained how things were done.  No horses were inside in July, they are out on the range then.  I found everything to be pretty nice, easy to clean with power washers for sanitation.  Mares were inside for only a few months in winter, and with a choice of -45F outside there, I would go for the barn too!  The mare we bought had done time on the line, half TB with great legs, in marvelous shape.  Manager said the Company buying urine did spot checks and things had to be perfect.  If they quit buying, you were in DEEP trouble with no income!!

I think the deluge/dumping of PMU horses came  a few years after article, when the Company said they were cutting back production.  Synthetics were taking up more of the Estrogen replacement  market, and then the heart problem report came out about dangers of taking Estrogen after menopause.  Lots of women just stopped taking anything and the market fell apart!!  

Meat buyers in Canada had more horses than they needed to buy, prices dropped to almost nothing.  PMU folks who quit taking care of the horses were dumping at auction in the States and then the bleeding hearts uproar started.  Of course I felt bad for the roughly treated Canadian animals, but it made me very angry when nice, BROKE animals locally could not be sold with everyone "full up" with PMU animals.  Local horses who would have been ENJOYABLE to own and use, went cheap for meat instead of the PMU imports.  

There was quite a bit of "no good deed goes unpunished" with the free, UNTRAINED, PMU animals hurting people, damaging property.  Many were drafts and draft crosses,young animals turning into BIG horses with no respect for anything.  Horses may not have had a purchase price, but they COST in every other aspect of having them around!!  We lost potential long-term horse owners.  They did not buy replacement animals when they get rid of the PMU animals because of all the problems they had with them.  No fun owning such horses for many, huge expenses as well.

Our State of Michigan loses SO MUCH money with non-enforcement of various laws.  Seems like there are plenty of enforcers for tiny things, but no one for big stuff like over-loaded semi trucks wrecking our highways, animals with no paperwork being introduced into the State.  I would agree with you on organized horse activities following rules, having paperwork in order.  But the folks who run down to Shipse on a Friday for the summer horse, don't have needed paperwork and NEVER get corrected, along with the killer buyers running home to Canada after the sale.  Everyone just thumbs their nose at the laws and gets away with it.  Heard about some out-west sale horses coming thru the Sales in Lansing just COVERED in ticks.  New owner had to de-tick them when she got home.  Who knows what those ticks had in them?  Not inspected anywhere along the route and crossed a LOT of states getting here.  Horses were lethargic, not enough blood left in them!  Scared me, hearing about this.  We got a free tick in alchohol for 4-H study, it was HUGE!  And this is just stuff I know about, lots of horse things I would never hear of in other state locations.


----------



## LauraM (Sep 14, 2010)

My goodness what a refreshingly intelligent, practical and realistic thread on this topic this is!  

You wouldn't believe how I've beaten my head against the wall about this with others in other forums.  About the only forum that the majority of people (though not all) have the same opinions as here that I've seen is The Mane Street.  Very nice to find another group of people who understand the realities and problems of this topic.


----------



## michickenwrangler (Sep 14, 2010)

LauraM said:
			
		

> My goodness what a refreshingly intelligent, practical and realistic thread on this topic this is!
> 
> You wouldn't believe how I've beaten my head against the wall about this with others in other forums.  About the only forum that the majority of people (though not all) have the same opinions as here that I've seen is The Mane Street.  Very nice to find another group of people who understand the realities and problems of this topic.


I know the feeling. Again, the one on BYC had to be closed since practical vs. let's-save-the-world-because-I-feel-guilty-after-seeing-Hidalgo-and-Spirit was getting quite vociferous.

Again, if you really want to see bleeding heart, check out that link I posted above. People are screaming that they are no longer going to vacation in Montana, they're going to start protesting to get the law changed BACK, etc...


----------



## goatgirl4008 (Sep 16, 2010)

I think the first big hurdle that must be jumped. Is to set up a definition of livestock that is what horses are. I grew up on a dairy farm I had pet calves but they were still livestock. Same with horses. It is a romantic notion of the old west and mustangs running free. But the reallity is its not like that now. There is an over population that needs an outlet. Some responsible owners might not have the finances to put to sleep and properly dispose of a horse that for what ever reason they can't. Take care of what are their options realistically. Sanctuarys are overflowing. This is the reallity. Where are all the bleeding hearts with a solution. This is a very good forum. I have put my 2 cents in and people aren't attacking each other. Thumbs up.


----------



## jodief100 (Sep 16, 2010)

I love horses, I adore them.  I had horse posters all over my wall well into my 20s.  My aunt had horses and I would muck stalls, haul water, feed, bathe, clean, run them on the hot walker, ANYTHING I could to earn an hour at the end of the day to ride.  I would spend Christmas break with them.  Every morning I would be at the barn at 5 AM with temperatures in the single digits to mount up and ride up the hills to check on the watering stations for the cows and LOVED every minute.  

I HATE horse slaughter.  I despise the idea. I also understand that horse slaughter was necessary to support the horse industry.  I dont like it, but I know why it has to be so.  

I am horrified at the prospect of eating horses.   I also realize that other cultures have their own standards of normal and there is nothing WRONG with eating horse just because it does not fit into my world view of normal.  Hindus think eating cows is a horrible sin.  I dont want others imposing their values on me; I cant impose mine on someone else.

Shutting down the slaughterhouses has done nothing but make a bad situation worse.  When something is legal it can be regulated.  When it is illegal it goes underground and anything goes.  Once again, this is a case where people breaking laws made everyone look bad and instead of enforcing laws already on the books, they just added new ones.  This is the typical government reaction.  If they would ENFORCE the laws they already have it might fix things.  Why do some people never learn? If someone is willing to break law A, than adding laws B, C and D is just going to give them more laws to break. 

I have 32 acres and NO horses.  I love them and want one badly, but I cant afford one.  People around me are giving away decent horses and selling for a few hundred dollars very nice ones but I cant afford them.  I cant pay the maintenance.  The horse industry is in shambles and it isnt going to be fixed anytime soon.  A lot of people are going to lose their livelihoods, a lot of horses are going to suffer and a lot of good quality lines of horses are going to disappear if this continues for much longer.  

Too many people who do not fully understand the situation demanding laws be changed to fit what believe is right without thinking through what the impact will be.  

The only solution- Educate, inform, speak up and VOTE!  With your ballot and your dollars.


----------



## ducks4you (Sep 17, 2010)

Lots of other horse forums have discussed this at length.  Though this seems like a hijack, I would like to see horse slaughter reinstated in Illinois, where the meat market only drove 3 hours to the slaughterhouse.  NOW, they really do drive several days to Mexico.  We have a severe overabundance of horses in 2010.  Here is my response (on another forum) re: the article about the BLM roundup which killed 7 horses this summer.   PLEASE excuse *my *emotions, because it was originally directed towards a flaky online critic. 
_The Mustang population continues to be an expensive problem, and it hasn't been solved in the 52 years I have been alive.  *I hate to hear about ANY animals who suffer unneccessarily.*  I have a solution.  I believe that we should sterilize the mares, so that the Mustang populations drop WWAAAYYY off.  I believe that after the numbers drop off dramatically, Americans should then apply for a license to own/breed their own herds on their own land.  They will become a "historic landmark," of sorts.   (See how NICE I am--I would actually prefer to allow Mustangs to grow old, pass away and let the "Breed" die off.)  I will not ever adopt a Mustang.  It doesn't fix the problem.

My taxes have been paying the BLM, just another government agency, to perpetuate a cheap way to buy a horse.  Ya don't have to pay breeding fees, ya don't have to pay your Vet for mare check-ups, ya don't have to dispose of stillborn foals, or aged Mustangs that die of illness.  You pay $125.00(?!?--That's how much it used to be) for horses with a healthy, strong build and sturdy hooves, because the environment has weaned off the horses with infirmities...like bad hooves and bad backs, and OH, YEAH, ALL of the problems that people have inbred into domestic horses.  But every other American, even those who don't give a hang about horses, STILL have to pay something to support the horse habit.  It's stealing from others.

*Mustangs are NOT an endangered species. * They exist because domestic horses went feral.  I will understand if those of you under 25 didn't learn about American History in public school, since they choose to not teach it anymore.

And, what about the ranchers, who let Mustangs live on their property, provide water for them, let them graze and then take and break a few.  THEY are stealing from other Americans, too.

Should we have a rant about dogs and cats who are euthanized daily because they are unwanted?  Here is some food for thought:

http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/pre...helters-each-year-in-north-america-137347.php

There are NOT enough predators to maintain the populations that we want.  We manage deer populations with hunting, exactly what what was done with wild horse populations some 50-60 years ago.

Why don't ALL of us stop simply CRITICIZING anybody who has a solution--even a bad one--and *come up with some better solutions than kill 'em all or keep 'em all.*

This is symptomatic of our current culture where we don't fix bad law or our own bad habits.  It will not be a bad thing for Americans if we visit public places withOUT wild horses.  I am tired of the animal suffering and I am SICK AND TIRED of online critics.

(BTW, fixing bad law DOES NOT MEAN that you make a new law.)_
I guess I took my English Professor seriously when he suggested using an emotional hook in your writing!!


----------



## michickenwrangler (Sep 17, 2010)

There's an idea. Allow people to hunt mustangs for meat. 

People DID eat horses long before they were ever ridden.


----------



## w c (Sep 18, 2010)

I think that a great many BLM mustangs are not out on the range but in dry lot pens waiting for...nothing.  Ranchers don't want them on public lands.  

I think we are fighting a losing battle with the mustangs, and for pretty much no reason.  These are feral (escaped domestic) horses with a lot of draft blood, and no longer resemble any original horses brought to the US.  Americans have an extreme and romantic attachment to them but aren't willing to actually set aside land for them.  It's a sad situation.


----------



## michickenwrangler (Oct 5, 2010)

goodhors said:
			
		

> Our State of Michigan loses SO MUCH money with non-enforcement of various laws.  Seems like there are plenty of enforcers for tiny things, but no one for big stuff like over-loaded semi trucks wrecking our highways, animals with no paperwork being introduced into the State.  I would agree with you on organized horse activities following rules, having paperwork in order.  But the folks who run down to Shipse on a Friday for the summer horse, don't have needed paperwork and NEVER get corrected, along with the killer buyers running home to Canada after the sale.  Everyone just thumbs their nose at the laws and gets away with it.  Heard about some out-west sale horses coming thru the Sales in Lansing just COVERED in ticks.  New owner had to de-tick them when she got home.  Who knows what those ticks had in them?  Not inspected anywhere along the route and crossed a LOT of states getting here.  Horses were lethargic, not enough blood left in them!  Scared me, hearing about this.  We got a free tick in alchohol for 4-H study, it was HUGE!  And this is just stuff I know about, lots of horse things I would never hear of in other state locations.


Well, they ARE starting to enforce it. 4 GLDRA riders got arrested and had to post bail to get to the Pine Marten Ride. 

They didn't stop in St. Ignace. A few other rigs managed to make it there w/o getting caught. I stopped there voluntarily.


----------



## w c (Oct 7, 2010)

It is very hard to change laws and to pass laws.  And if a law is passed with weak or vague language, it still takes a lot of time to get it fixed.  The law has to be tested in court and it is a long process.  

As imperfect as our legal system is, I also agree, that just ignoring a law is not the way to fix the situation.


----------



## michickenwrangler (Jan 17, 2011)

adoptedbyachicken said:
			
		

> michickenwrangler said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There's a mammoth thread going on on BYC. We may yet have feral mammoths too!


----------



## terri9630 (Jan 17, 2011)

How refreshing.  I'm so tired of hearing how I'm wrong because I think that horse slaughter is ok.  My neighbour thinks I'm a horrid person for raising/eating chickens and rabbits.  She thinks I should buy my meat at the stores because "it comes from a factory and no animals have to die".


----------



## elevan (Jan 17, 2011)

terri9630 said:
			
		

> My neighbour thinks I'm a horrid person for raising/eating chickens and rabbits.  She thinks I should buy my meat at the stores because "it comes from a factory and no animals have to die".


I seriously don't understand how any sane person can think that the meat in the stores = no animals were harmed.  It's not fake meat - it's the real stuff!

I think we've become way too far removed from our food to have people that think this way.

And our romanticism of animals has gone way too far - to the point that we are causing harm to the animals.  Abandoned horses, dogs, cats and more...long domesticated and unable to fend for themselves.  I completely understand the pet thing - I had a potbelly that the vet said to put down due to aggression...I couldn't just waste him...but I couldn't eat him cause he was my pet...so I gave him to a needy family to slaughter.


----------



## KristyHall (Jan 25, 2011)

I had never thought about horse slaughter one way or another but it makes perfect sense. I was often criticized by fellow wildlife rehabbers because i would tend to an orphaned fawn but I eat deer meat.  I often tended mainly to animals that were in that situation due to human stupidity. If I saw an animal being killed by a predator I did nothing because that is nature.
I have a sick chicken in my bath tub. I have been giving her food and water by hand, but if she doesn't start eating and drinking her own soon I will stop this and make the decision to put her out of her misery.
I have thought about  what I will do with my old mare when she passes on. I may skin her and tan the hide for a throw. I know it horrifies some people but I grew up in a house hold where you use everything you can. My mother made most of our soaps, I gather my garden veggie sin hand made baskets, I have purses made from deer hide and turtle shells.
There is a difference  between mercy, and cruelty caused by squeemishness.


----------



## LauraM (Jan 26, 2011)

KristyHall said:
			
		

> I had never thought about horse slaughter one way or another but it makes perfect sense. I was often criticized by fellow wildlife rehabbers because i would tend to an orphaned fawn but I eat deer meat.  I often tended mainly to animals that were in that situation due to human stupidity. If I saw an animal being killed by a predator I did nothing because that is nature.
> I have a sick chicken in my bath tub. I have been giving her food and water by hand, but if she doesn't start eating and drinking her own soon I will stop this and make the decision to put her out of her misery.
> I have thought about  what I will do with my old mare when she passes on. I may skin her and tan the hide for a throw. I know it horrifies some people but I grew up in a house hold where you use everything you can. My mother made most of our soaps, I gather my garden veggie sin hand made baskets, I have purses made from deer hide and turtle shells.
> There is a difference  between mercy, and cruelty caused by squeemishness.


Good post.  I abhor that people create so much waste when it could be put to use.  If anything, not allowing anything to go to waste would be far more "natural" than what many people do now with their animals.   

I think it's a shame that zoos and other  sanctuaries and rescues are closing because they can no longer afford the meat needed for those animals that need it.  Yet horses are starving to death and dying from neglect.  Where is the sense, the humanity, in that?? 

I agree that there needs to be a local knacker.....small slaughter businesses that could be regulated and overseen on the state or county level.  Seems to me that would solve pretty much all the problems.

Seriously, I really doubt the animal cares what is done with it's body, any part of the body, after it's dead.  The idea of not wanting to use anything from the animal after it is dead is entirely a human concept, and only a recent one, at that.  That concept is "unnatural" and has much more far-reaching "inhumane" consequences.


----------



## goodhors (Jan 26, 2011)

If someone can skin their horse and tan his hide, that is fine with me.  Donating them to zoos for food, Hunt Clubs for the hounds, all works for me.  Just that  I couldn't do it myself.  I wouldn't call our horses "pets" exactly, but we have been working partners for many years.  We spend a lot of time, days and years together doing things.  So thinking of cutting them up, is kind of like doing that to one of my other good  people friends, just unacceptable to me.  Too personal, I just can't think of them as cows or sheep!

 But the folks who don't deal with "real life" animals on a daily basis, have bottomless pocketbooks, can't understand killing and burying one at home could run you deep into debt!  Vet coming, hole being dug properly so body doesn't reappear, adds up to several hundred to just kill a horse!  Even shooting one at home, you still have all that body to deal with in regulated housing areas, suburbia, the 5-acre farms of the East.  Some places you are not allowed to bury big animals.

Sending that horse to Auction, maybe a kill buyer, prevents poor people from getting into worse scenarios.  There are lots of Free Horse ads on Craigslist, seemingly with no takers.  Ads don't go away.

Here in MI, we only have one place that takes dead horses and cattle over towards Detroit.  I don't know the price for pickup and disposal, but all the other rendering places have closed.  MSU in Lansing does cremate them, not sure of cost.  

State Gov't passed a law allowing you to compost large animals, but you need a HUGE pile of manure to do it in.  Actually a pretty satisfactory method, no smell, goes fast, and almost nothing left if done correctly.  With no smell, you don't get little varmints wanting pieces either.  If the pile is big and hot enough, some are totally gone in 3 months.  Then the compost is spread on the fields, returning everything to the land again.

If the laws in place were enforced, hauling humanely by the meat buyers, quick dispatching of the live animals with quick killing, many of the slaughter house problems would be removed.  However with the ever shrinking enforcement, no manpower to check up on things, slaughter can be pretty ugly to view, as the end of those horses.  Real easy to work up the city folks with those photos and videos of horse abuse.


----------



## KristyHall (Jan 26, 2011)

Well, I am planning on it but it doesn't mean I may be able to do it.
I have bonded with Sammy far more than I have most other animals.
She and I have a long story, and we came together when we were both in need of a loving companion. Me as an abused troubled child, and my her as an abused troubled horse.
But still, If I can't skin her then at least burying her in the pasture will feed the grasses her daughter feeds on.


----------



## goodhors (Jan 26, 2011)

Well save some of her mane and tail hair.  Lots of folk make braided or "hitched" bracelets, necklaces from the hair or you can send hair off to be done for you at a reasonable price.  Very pretty to wear and a nice remembrance.  Some other folks have got businesses that will make pottery incorporating the hairs, which burn into lovely patterns during firing of the clay.  I have seen the advertising, some vases at friends homes.  Very attractive.   Also a lovely remembrance for your special horse.

We have several of our old buddies buried here.  That paddock DOES have the nicest grass!


----------



## KristyHall (Jan 26, 2011)

Oh! That is a great idea.
I do a lot of traditional basketry and beadwork, including Pine needle basketry I could make a nice basket for horse treats with some of he hair woven into it.


----------

