# BEST COYOTE KILLER BREEDS - SUGGESTIONS!



## woodsie (Mar 19, 2013)

My neighbour just stopped by for eggs and said that he was looking for an exceptional coyote killer dog...he just saw 6 of them this morning and our dogs have been going nuts! My two Pyrs are locked in the sheep pen, so the sheep are safe but I am nervous about my rabbits and 3 goat kids in the pen a few hundred feet away. 

Anyways he has 5 dogs including a GP but they can't seem to catch and kill those pests and he has 350 goat herd in kidding season. I can see why he wants the coyotoes taken care of. He was looking for a Russian Wolfhound but nothing remotely in our area and it seems most are mostly show not working lines. 

Any suggestions, need something with some speed as I think the regular dogs (Pyr, Shepherd, cattle dogs are getting out run)?


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## CochinBrahmaLover=) (Mar 19, 2013)

woodsie said:
			
		

> My neighbour just stopped by for eggs and said that he was looking for an exceptional coyote killer dog...he just saw 6 of them this morning and our dogs have been going nuts! My two Pyrs are locked in the sheep pen, so the sheep are safe but I am nervous about my rabbits and 3 goat kids in the pen a few hundred feet away.
> 
> Anyways he has 5 dogs including a GP but they can't seem to catch and kill those pests and he has 350 goat herd in kidding season. I can see why he wants the coyotoes taken care of. He was looking for a Russian Wolfhound but nothing remotely in our area and it seems most are mostly show not working lines.
> 
> Any suggestions, need something with some speed as I think the regular dogs (Pyr, Shepherd, cattle dogs are getting out run)?


I'd go with Australian Cattle Dog





(Not my pic) 
They are very fiesty, willing to kill anything (Though ours leave the chickens, pigeons, geese, ducks, and goats alone. But not the pig or ferrets. They HATE them. XD They wouldn't KILL them but the girl hates the 2 of them, since they aren't scared of her.. lol) ours will go after moose, they are very fast, and extremely intellegient and loyal dogs. Personally for coyotes I'd trust ours. We have a male whose strong (though not very agile), and could go after a small wolf - large coyote, and our female is very growly-I'm-the-boss-likeness and would def. be able to kill a coyote, and let alone catch it.

ETA ;; 
They also are good herding dogs, and usually weigh (girls) 30lbs, and males anywhere from 30lbs - 60 lbs. (60lbs if fat, ours is fat but he's stocky and sturdy). So they're somewhat small but good dogs and almost all you can find is working dogs.


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## BrownSheep (Mar 20, 2013)

Our saint Bernard's have gotten within a couple of feet of catching the coyotes.
Our guys don't work by killing though. They are mainly chasers...not to say they wouldn't if they did catch them.


What about the Irish wolfhounds?....I know theyre on my wish list at leas


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## Egg_Newton (Mar 20, 2013)

I don't personally have one but I hear the Turkish Kangals protect their livestock by actually hunting down and eliminating the threat.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 20, 2013)

Anatolian Shepherd/Kangal

A German Shepherd Dog is excellent at speed and small prey such as a coyote but then what... 5 dogs already... what dogs other than the GP does he have?


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## Bossroo (Mar 20, 2013)

One thing to remember is that any large dog can kill a single coyote if they can catch them.  However when that one coyote gets to do a running fight with a dog (  slow down or stops with  short snaps then runs again )  and when they reach the pack ... dead dog as they are torn to peices from all sides.  Some examples:   One neigbor 3 down from ours ( raises mini horses )  has 7 Australian cattle dogs and he looses one now and then to coyote packs whenever one of them starts to  chase after one. Never to be seen again.   I lost 2   90 & 95 lbs.Boxers this way.  My accross the street neighbor lost his  100+ lb male Rottie  3 years ago to a pack. All that he found was his head and hide.  Another neihbor next to the accross the street one had an attack trained male Dobbie to a pack.  Another neigbor a mile away had a Rhodiesian Ridgeback killed by a pack.     etc. .


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## Roving Jacobs (Mar 20, 2013)

If all those dogs he has aren't killing coyotes I think his best bet is to use a gun liberally or hire a pest extermination service/someone who likes hunting coyotes with their own dogs. A lot of the dogs I've seen bred to take on coyotes would not be safe with groups of other dogs unless the owner has a lot of dog skills and would be a lot of trouble to house when not hunting.

If they're really serious about taking on these coyotes on their own something like a bully lurcher (a pit bull/greyhound cross usually) has the speed to take them down and the strength to keep them down. The ones I've seen usually work alongside larger bullies like dogos to help kill the yote when they catch up before any dog gets too hurt. It's a dangerous hunt for single dogs and I've seen a lot of dogs seriously wounded or killed by coyotes.


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## Canadiannee (Mar 20, 2013)

I'm with Bossroo... it's not a single coyote you have to worry about, it's the pack... they didn't call Wiley C. Coyote for nothin'.

A single coyote is often sent by the pack as a decoy to lure dogs to chase them to where the pack is waiting... In our area we get a lot of coy-dogs - unspayed females being lured into the pack and bred producing these nasty half-breeds. Males neutered or unneutered don't fare so well 

Our Newfoundland almost got lured into this trap one night when a pack of coyotes came running through our property close to the barns... the single coyote came out of the bush and climbed up to stand on the manure pile, our Newf set up chase, and we could see the pack waiting among the trees... I've never been so happy that a dog knew recall so well!

A neighbours dog wasn't so lucky... didn't find much of him left 

We have many coyote hunters in these parts... they put ads up on Kijiji frequently asking farmers for their dead stock to be used as bait.


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## woodsie (Mar 20, 2013)

Well thanks for the suggestions...my husband agreed with the gun idea. I think he wanted a dog fast enough to get catch one until the other 5 could get there. I don't think he ever intended to send them in alone. I'll have to ask him why he doesn't just shoot but it might be because we are in city limits and it is difficult to see them as they are coming up from the river in brush and bushes in the dark. They are doing the "Im hurt lure too" but no one has fallen for the trap. I think he is animal addict too on a LARGE scale, he just has figured a way to make a decent living at it...weed control herds....he may just want an excuse to get another dog. (They are living in a travel trailer and not a big one, and when we left after having a tea 3 of his big dogs jumped into the trailer!  He has one AMAZINGLY understanding wife!).

He has an amazing young female Pyr but she pretty much is glued to the goats, I'm sure the only reason he hasn't lost some already. 

I am pretty sure my Samson GP could catch them as he has a super long and lean gait and he's super fast....and my female would be close behind. Not sure if I really want to volunteer them as I would feel awful if they did get hurt taking on a pack, we know there is at least 6. I guess they would work with his other dogs too so that would bring the total to 7 dogs. (His dogs are German Shep, a REALLLY old GP, young GP, Blue heeler, and another heeler cross). Still feel uneasy about the sending my dogs in although I am sure they would be thrilled to get the chance to get the yotes that are taunting them everynight.

I'll suggest the gun idea and see what he says. I think it may be he is actually living on City land doing weed control and may not want to do anything to jeopardize his arrangement.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 20, 2013)

woodsie- with the history of your escape artists I would not recommend this. Your dogs should remain with your animals. I am always in favor of helping out another but... this IMO could cause more issues with your own dogs.


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## woodsie (Mar 20, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> woodsie- with the history of your escape artists I would not recommend this. Your dogs should remain with your animals. I am always in favor of helping out another but... this IMO could cause more issues with your own dogs.


Yeah that is probably my biggest concern...the only reason I was even thinking about it is because the City property he's on was  a former jail and has a fully contained 11 foot high chainlink fence around the perimeter but somehow the coyotes are getting in so there must be a way in (Maybe slinking into the river to get around the fence).   Plus I didn't want them to get confused with what is their property. I will see what he does - I like the suggestion of the Kangal/Anatolian.

Update: We sometimes take the dogs on a leash to pee on different stuff around our property and Samson once we made the rounds will actually go back to the pen on his own, I think he is aftually bonding with the sheep and goats!  Winnie not so much, I still have to drag her back into the pen, she just wants to play with the kids and sniff the bunnies.


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## treeclimber233 (Mar 20, 2013)

I am no expert about the fighting abililty of GP but I am betting that if you "loan" your dogs to the neighbor IF you can get his dogs to accept your dogs and they all run down the yotes in the heat of the battle his dogs might forget your dogs are friends.  They might just try to kill anything that is not from their pack.  And if he has a fully contained 11 foot fence then the coyotes are probably not coming in as a pack but singly so there is no reason his dogs cant do the job by themselves.


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## woodsie (Mar 20, 2013)

treeclimber233 said:
			
		

> I am no expert about the fighting abililty of GP but I am betting that if you "loan" your dogs to the neighbor IF you can get his dogs to accept your dogs and they all run down the yotes in the heat of the battle his dogs might forget your dogs are friends.  They might just try to kill anything that is not from their pack.  And if he has a fully contained 11 foot fence then the coyotes are probably not coming in as a pack but singly so there is no reason his dogs cant do the job by themselves.


Agreed....the thought had crossed my mind too...I was never really interested in loaning my dogs but would love to see the coyotes go. My dad just got a gun and he may just have to do a late night steak out!


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## goatboy1973 (Mar 20, 2013)

You need a Llama or a full size female donkey. They can dispatch a whole pack of coyotes all by themselves and they have a natural "hate" for canids like dogs, coyotes, foxes, or wolves.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 20, 2013)

I'm no expert at this, but I think the goal with a livestock guard dog is to keep predators away.

Their presence is 90% of their job.

If yours have to do battle with packs of coyotes, I think you are in trouble.

I'm not familiar with any breed bred to kill coyotes.

Guns, night vision goggles and late nights  seems what you need.  Maybe poisoned bait.


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## CityClucker (Mar 26, 2013)

English mastiffs as well as pitbulls have actually worked extremly well for my uncle, I personally use coonhounds such as redbones and walkers.


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 14, 2013)

Couple thoughts from my end...
Is your neighbor losing livestock or just knows they are out there?  

I had a llama and moved to the backwoods of AR. there were hardly any neighbors, we were really out there.

With in the first week I lost 5 sheep to coyotes.  my poor llama went bizerk trying to help. He could not fight the pack alone.  

Got 2 pyrs asap.  Never lost another thing.  

For me we found the llama would lead the sheep to safety or what he perceived as safety and the dogs would do the dirty work. But they didn't kill the coyotes just made darn sure they didn't get any sheep. Someone mentioned earlier that LGD's protect and deter predators, I don't think that means killing them unless it comes to that. Why do they need to die if they aren't able to get anything. 

From what I understand predators are a lazy lot. They will go after easy prey. LGD's make their charges hard to get to and not "easy". Usually sending the predators on to easier pickings.  

We lived in CO in the mountains. We saw bear and cougar right next to the house.  I had 2 LGD's, Akbash, but they weren't killers just protectors.  neither the bears or the cougars ever got to our sheep.  Again being lazy predators they just moved on to easier prey.

I find it hard to fathom 5 dogs can't do the job that is needed.  Unless the goats are spread out I really don't get it.

What used to happen down in AR was llama took sheep to safety, and dogs chased off predators. If no predators but lambing happened, 1 dog stayed with lambing ewe while the other dog stayed with his pack.  

How the heck big is this pack of coyotes?  

Could you advertise in CL or something similar for someone to come in and kill the coyotes?  I have a friend way out in the country. He has guys come in and hunt the coyotes.  Not sure about the legalities but I'm sure you could find out what's legal in your area.

One more thing....
I like cattle dogs, like the one pictured above.  But I wouldn't want to put one in with my sheep. They have more of a herding background than a protecting background. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule but left unsupervised I could see things going badly. Plus I don't think 1 of anything is going to help and put a bunch of cattle dogs together and I'd think you'd really get yourself into trouble. Again they are a working or herding dog so excited by moving prey or livestock.

Not to knock whoever posted that their CD is a good one, I'm sure it is. Just what I've experienced.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Apr 14, 2013)

*I also have an English Mastiff and she is wonderful at chasing coyotes away and keeping the predators from coming onto the property. I'm sure she would kill one if she could catch it, but alas, English Mastiffs are pretty slow when it comes to the runners of the dog world.

I do have a Malamute/ German Shepherd/ Wolf mix that if I let him off his run he will actually hunt and chase down coyotes and kill them. I have heard him in the middle of the night killing coyotes (before we put him in his run). But he does all this of his own volition and I think it was because he was raised out on an Indian Reservation hunting and doing wild things.

However, I agree with the above poster. The job of a LGD is to "scare away" the predators before they ever get close enough. And I too can't fathom why 5 dogs wouldn't be enough for coyotes. *


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 14, 2013)

Had to add to the poision bait idea. I had that idea once. Didn't kill what I intended, but did kill local wildlife that didn't need killing. It made me very sad to think I killed something that should never have been poisioned.  Can't help but wonder what else I killed.  


Unless you can be sure only your intended enemies get to the bait, be very careful.  
Just adding to my story of what has and hasn't worked for us!  not knocking someone elses uses or ideas.


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## PendergrassRanch (Apr 14, 2013)

A good rifle or a shotgun for close range.  No point in risking the life of an innocent dog.  Start your target practice.


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 14, 2013)

bcnewe2 said:
			
		

> Had to add to the poision bait idea. I had that idea once. Didn't kill what I intended, but did kill local wildlife that didn't need killing. It made me very sad to think I killed something that should never have been poisioned.  Can't help but wonder what else I killed.
> 
> 
> Unless you can be sure only your intended enemies get to the bait, be very careful.
> Just adding to my story of what has and hasn't worked for us!  not knocking someone elses uses or ideas.


I was the one who posted that.  After thinking about it some more,  I agree with you.  Probably not a good idea.

Probably more likely to get an unintended target than a the coyotes.


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## The Grim Raker (Apr 14, 2013)

I am not joking when suggesting Galloway cattle - I have seen them attack a pack of coys, they didn't stare for any length of time they just ran at and did the attack bellow, snot and stomp.
The downside is a Galloway is thinking about itself or a calf where a dog will be thinking about everybody its supposed to be protecting


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## bcnewe2 (Apr 14, 2013)

I have seen some mean cattle,  almost any beef cattle are rank. Specially if they have a calf on them.  But you mentioned they are out to protect themselves, which might also mean taking on a curious goat.  I used to have to retrieve my sheep out of the neighbors cattle.  Used my best herding dog,  we were lucky there weren't any cow/calf pairs.  My sheep were sly, they'd look at us through the fence and I swear I heard them laughing.  Neighbors felt sorry for me and bought me an above ground swimming pool ladder at a garage sale. That summer I walked around with little holes in the back of all my T-shirts... Barbwire.  Good for cattle bad for sheep! Are Galloway cattle on the small side? I think I know what they are...


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 14, 2013)

bcnewe2 said:
			
		

> I have seen some mean cattle,  almost any beef cattle are rank. Specially if they have a calf on them.  But you mentioned they are out to protect themselves, which might also mean taking on a curious goat.  I used to have to retrieve my sheep out of the neighbors cattle.  Used my best herding dog,  we were lucky there weren't any cow/calf pairs.  My sheep were sly, they'd look at us through the fence and I swear I heard them laughing.  Neighbors felt sorry for me and bought me an above ground swimming pool ladder at a garage sale. That summer I walked around with little holes in the back of all my T-shirts... Barbwire.  Good for cattle bad for sheep! Are Galloway cattle on the small side? I think I know what they are...


I've met some very mean dairy bulls.  Particularly Jersey's.  I'll never forget one starring at me growling.


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## PendergrassRanch (Apr 14, 2013)

A friend of mine has a couple Longhorn that will trample any dog that go in the pasture.  I'm sure a coyote would be no different.


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## woodsie (Apr 14, 2013)

I orgininally posted this thread and have not kept up....very interesting suggestions. 

We are pretty sure our rancher neighbour (the one who accused my dogs killing his cattle...posted in a different thread) is doing a fine job feeding them at the moment. We continuously hear a pack of coyotes doing their pack kye-yaeying (sp?) at all hours of the day at the ranch property. 

My neighbour that was looking for a coyote killer has settled down and as he has not lost any goats of his 350 head and is not in a panic and is going to stay with the G Pyrs. He's hoping to get a male patroller GP as his old one is just that, REALLY old. The other options are just too risky as he takes the goats into public parks and having a people aggressive dogs are just too much of a liability. My dogs are doing a great job with their barking on the hill and have kept the coyotes at bay and have not heard or seen any evidence of coyotes on our property.

The gun is the best option but we are in city limits so technically it is illegal and he is residing on city property so a little risky. 

They are a real problem here - I was speaking with someone that works at the saw-mill a mile down the road and he said the coyotes are not scared of people at ALL and will stand and stare down the machine operators and move just far enough to not get squished by the buckets. I think we have a couple dens of coyotes in the surrounding area and with the new pups the population really should be downsized.


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## CritterZone (Apr 15, 2013)

It really is too bad you are within the city limits.  We live very rural and have a lot of coyotes, and bears, bobcats and cougars.  We have two dogs, but consider them only a short-term deterrent.  Whenever a coyote comes within binocular view of the barn, we shoot at them.  When we first bought our place, they were bold enough to come into the barn.  Now they stay outside our fenceline and well away from our sheep and chickens.  We haven't lost a animal to the coyotes yet.  They are bold, but they are also smart, and you only have to shoot at the same dog once or twice to convince him to move along and find dinner elsewhere.


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## Livestock lover (May 7, 2013)

I like our German Shepard!


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## fluttervale (May 8, 2013)

There's always the option of using deerhounds or wolfhounds to hunt them directly.  You do need a pack but there are people that still hunt them with dogs and they will not "guard" the same way a LGD will, and really shouldn't be trusted on faith with livestock, but they are effective.


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## Pops2 (May 26, 2013)

There's different ways of using dogs to kill coyotes & dogs bred specifically for the jobs.
Decoy Dog- they use a coyotes natural territorial aggression to lure them into the open for a shooter. Most any trainable dog can do it. Can't be too large as the coyotes won't engage or follow aggressively enough. Most often a cur, herding breed or hunt bred Airedale. Most successful when they are raising pups.
Scent hound- like the name says they follow the coyotes scent while sounding off. Killing is one of two ways, hunter gets in front of the race and shoots it or the hounds run the coyote to exhaustion and kill it. Coonhounds are generally slower than foxhounds and better for shooting coyotes. Foxhounds are faster & have a lot more bottom than cooners and so will do a better job of running them down and they kill them pretty well. In the scent hound community there are tree dogs (coon & bear hounds) & running dogs (foxhounds & beagles). Top speed of fastest dogs are a little over 35MPH, but run sustained speeds of 15-25 MPH for distances of upto 40-60 miles in a day.
Sighthounds- also called running dogs & longdogs. They use endurance and speed to catch coyotes. Both dogs & coyotes are able to sprint upto 45MPH for distances upto 1mile and run sustained speeds of 30-35MPH for upto 4 miles. Coldblood (huntbred) greyhounds & staghounds are the cream of the crop & have been bred for the job for at least a century. They will usually kill the coyotes themselves. Hotblood (track) greys & salukis can often catch coyotes but are often not as good a killer and may need a bigger kill dog to help. Borzoi or russian wolfhounds can usually do the job but not as well as stags & coldbloods. Scottish deerhounds & Irish wolfhounds are show dogs that can rarely catch and kill healthy adult coyotes but are occasionally used as kill dog and then crossed onto the faster dogs. Ridgebacks are not sighthounds but cur dogs that hunt more by scent. BulldogXsighthound lurchers are common kill dogs also.
Den or Hole dogs- they go into a den or hole and either kill the coyote or drag it out to be killed. Usually a large patterdale, small pit bulldog or a mix of the two and occasionally a jagdterrier.

Coyotes are built like sighthounds but also have a ton of bottom at speeds under 30. Coyotes caught by labs, healers and such are RARELY healthy adults. They are usually sick, injured, very young or very old.

Dogs bred to kill coyotes do not make good LGDs. It takes a LOT of work to teach them what not to hunt and so should never be left unsupervised with livestock.


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## Boor122009 (May 29, 2013)

Woodsie, your lucky it's just coyotes and not Canadian Mackenzie Valley Wolves. Instead of putting more dogs at risk of death or injury, my best advice would be to sort it out with a firearm. Yes, this sounds awful, but it's the best and most cost affective way to handle this. A more humane way would be to trap and relocate the coyotes. Your local environmental management should be able to help. 

Getting back to your request for breeds, well, that depends on whether you want to hunt then or have LGD's that will chase and kill them? Your large sight-hounds(Borzoi, greyhounds, Irish wolfhounds, Scottish Deer hounds, etc.) have all been used to hunt predators. LGD breeds all have a different way they protect the flock, no one way is better than the other, but a combination of there tactics is the best. Whether it be dogs that chase and kill, dogs that that stay back with the flock and defend from there or dogs who patrol and report back. So the best way to combat predators would be to incorporate dogs who have all these characteristics. Remember, building up your pack means more money and this may not be cost effective for some, but will pay out in the long run. Kangals, Central Asian Shepherds, Caucasian Ovcharkas, Spanish Mastiffs, Akabash, Anatolian Shepherd all chase and eradicate. Great Pyr,  marremma, Kuvasz all tend to stay back and fight. 

whatever you decide, Good Luck!!!


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## Ridgetop (Apr 26, 2015)

Pops2:  Great info on kill dogs,but you would have to have several and keep them kenneled until they were taken out to chase and kill the coyotes. My question as always is:  Has he lost stock?  If not, then his dogs are working fine.  If a coyote comes in and won't leave the LGD will kill it.  If it is a large pack cpmong in they will kill a single LGD.  Getting a younger male LGD to replace his aged GP is what he needs.  His heelers are herding dogs.  They might fight the coyotes to protect the sheep, but are not bred to do it.  Many of my friends with herding dogs kennel them when not there to supervise them since many herding dogs will herd on their own.

Woodsie: Loaning your LGDs should never be an option since his LGDs won't accept them and it will take time for your dogs to learn the territory and bond with his goats.

If the coyotes keep coming into the property, call a professional hunter who is licensed for predator control.  If he can't hunt coyotes within city limits, he may be able to trap them and kill them.  Hav-a-hart makes large size live traps.  I don't believe in trap and release for coyotes.  They have adapted to city life too well.  In Burbank, CA (yes, Burbank, home of many major TV studios!) packs of coyotes roam the city parks and in some places people can't take their dogs for a walk without the risk of attack.  They eat fruit, pets, possums, rats, and trash, etc. 

Hope things go well.


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## whisperingsage (Oct 25, 2017)

woodsie said:


> My neighbour just stopped by for eggs and said that he was looking for an exceptional coyote killer dog...he just saw 6 of them this morning and our dogs have been going nuts! My two Pyrs are locked in the sheep pen, so the sheep are safe but I am nervous about my rabbits and 3 goat kids in the pen a few hundred feet away.
> 
> Anyways he has 5 dogs including a GP but they can't seem to catch and kill those pests and he has 350 goat herd in kidding season. I can see why he wants the coyotoes taken care of. He was looking for a Russian Wolfhound but nothing remotely in our area and it seems most are mostly show not working lines.
> 
> Any suggestions, need something with some speed as I think the regular dogs (Pyr, Shepherd, cattle dogs are getting out run)?




We have the great Pyrnanees/Anatolian crosses, there are several of the giant Livestock guardian breeds that will kill coyotes, ours have killed 2 that we know of, killed, stripped and eaten. They dropped the skin and bones at our feet. Now, however, California has reintroduced wolves into our county and keep in mind, I wouldn't be comfortable with just ONE dog, I have to have a pack myself. I grew up with a pack of dogs (latchkey kids, single Mom) and she made sure there were no less than 7 dogs to guard us. As children we just had every breed, all free. But as a herder of goats/sheep and poultry and rabbits, I don't rely on these dogs as pets (they are very serious and not pet material- and tend to be dominant. Anytime I toodle around the farm doing things, my dogs whine at me. They don't like not being in control and I stress them out. They may never, ever accept you as alpha, so understand that. In addition, they aren't great at understanding harmful humans. Once they bond with livestock, that species is off limits for harm. That includes us, so I am not confident their psychology will allow them to hurt a human that is hurting me and that's a great concern for us out in the boonies, as our sheriffs have ignored a murder of one of our church members, and declared her death "natural causes" when there was an obvious struggle, broken out front window, naked in November, 1/4 mile from the house in the bushes. So we are pretty much pioneer frontier country and have to fend for ourselves. I am looking at getting another Rottie to add to the pack. My first one was awesome, and protected me from rapists. Plus they are better at being pets.


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## whisperingsage (Oct 25, 2017)

Ridgetop said:


> Pops2:  Great info on kill dogs,but you would have to have several and keep them kenneled until they were taken out to chase and kill the coyotes. My question as always is:  Has he lost stock?  If not, then his dogs are working fine.  If a coyote comes in and won't leave the LGD will kill it.  If it is a large pack cpmong in they will kill a single LGD.  Getting a younger male LGD to replace his aged GP is what he needs.  His heelers are herding dogs.  They might fight the coyotes to protect the sheep, but are not bred to do it.  Many of my friends with herding dogs kennel them when not there to supervise them since many herding dogs will herd on their own.
> 
> Woodsie: Loaning your LGDs should never be an option since his LGDs won't accept them and it will take time for your dogs to learn the territory and bond with his goats.
> 
> ...


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## Latestarter (Oct 25, 2017)

Greetings and welcome to BYH @whisperingsage I see you joined quite a while back... Glad you finally jumped in  Although I hate to point out, the last (most recent before yours) post to this thread was like 2 1/2 years ago (almost to the day)  ... Ah well... be that as it may, please feel free to jump in wherever you please  You mentioned that you live in CA. You really should put at least your general location in your profile as location is pretty important if you ask for or give advice or help. Please also consider doing a brief introduction in the new member section so folks can welcome you properly. Make yourself at home!


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## Rammy (Apr 9, 2018)

I would go with a gun over a dog. As others have posted, coyotes are good at luring a dog away and then the pack will be waiting. Ive heard of peoples dogs in the area that this has happened to. Maybe you could check with some other neighbors with livestock and see what they do to control these predators? I would sure hate to read you lost one of your furry babies to one of these nasty critters.

Rammy


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## Steve Quintavalli (Nov 2, 2018)

goatboy1973 said:


> You need a Llama or a full size female donkey. They can dispatch a whole pack of coyotes all by themselves and they have a natural "hate" for canids like dogs, coyotes, foxes, or wolves.



Yea, I have heard and seen images/videos of donkeys destroying predators but I didn't know llamas could, I thought they just scared them...


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## Steve Quintavalli (Nov 2, 2018)

OneFineAcre said:


> I'm no expert at this, but I think the goal with a livestock guard dog is to keep predators away.
> 
> Their presence is 90% of their job.
> 
> ...



Yea, a 22-250 with thermal sights, silencer, and subsonic ammo.....no one will ever know.


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## Steve Quintavalli (Nov 2, 2018)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:


> *I also have an English Mastiff and she is wonderful at chasing coyotes away and keeping the predators from coming onto the property. I'm sure she would kill one if she could catch it, but alas, English Mastiffs are pretty slow when it comes to the runners of the dog world.
> 
> I do have a Malamute/ German Shepherd/ Wolf mix that if I let him off his run he will actually hunt and chase down coyotes and kill them. I have heard him in the middle of the night killing coyotes (before we put him in his run). But he does all this of his own volition and I think it was because he was raised out on an Indian Reservation hunting and doing wild things.
> 
> However, I agree with the above poster. The job of a LGD is to "scare away" the predators before they ever get close enough. And I too can't fathom why 5 dogs wouldn't be enough for coyotes. *



Yea, the LGDs should be keeping the coyotes at bay, which it seems like they are doing, right?  Nothing has been taken?  Anyway, if the coyotes learn they will die if they go after the livestock the rest should learn to stay clear.  If all the coyotes die, then new coyotes will take up residence and you have to start over again....so I have read, I have no real world experience but it seems to work that with nefarious human groups.


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## halopay (Mar 28, 2019)

_*Rhodesian Ridgeback.*_

Those bastards won’t stand a chance 
Navy seal  = ridgeback
to Human     to   Dog

There’s no better all around, stronger, faster, protective hunter killer.


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## greybeard (Mar 30, 2019)

Steve Quintavalli said:


> Yea, a 22-250 with thermal sights, silencer, and subsonic ammo.....no one will ever know.


Coyote?
open sights, 7.62x39 or Weatherby .270 with a Busnell Banner 4x12. I sleep well at night, because I and my neighbors got rid of them. We got tired of running them back and forth on to each other's property.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 7, 2019)

We are also within the city limits and are not allowed to fire weapons.  However, in defense of yourselves or your livestock it is permissible.  Considering how far a bullet can travel you better hit what you aim at and know what is in the line of fire if you miss.  If you order a large coyote size Havahart trap, you can trap a coyote with a dead chicken in it for bait.  A .22 caliber rifle or pistol will put it down quietly once trapped.  Lock up your own dogs though since we tried this method and caught our own LGD the first day!  LOL

The Rhodesian Ridgeback is an excellent dog bred to hunt and kill lions in Africa (former Rhodesia).  It is *not* a Livestock Guardian Dog, but rather a type of hunting dog that follows the scent of it prey and then brings it down.  They are (were)used in a pack to hunt and kill lions, leopards, and other large predators in Africa.  I believe they have been used to some extent here on mountain lion and possibly wild hogs.  They are not a Livestock Guardian Dog like the Pyr, Anatolian, Akbash, etc.  I would not recommend keeping hunting dogs in with my flock hoping they will kill the coyotes since they might decide to chase the sheep if they are bored.  Also some herding dogs need to be kept away from running with the flock since they have been known to work the sheep by themselves just for fun, leading to sheep that cannot graze in peace and lose weight.  Irish Wolfhounds and Borzois were originally used to hunt wolves but it was long in the past and most present members of those breeds are more likely to be couch potatoes.  One wolfhound breeder told me that Irish Wolfhounds are not even good house guardians.  Our neighbors have Borzois and they say their dogs prefer to lay around inside rather than chasing even a rabbit.  Hunting dogs have to be trained to follow the scent you want them to hunt.  Bird dogs are trained to ignore rabbits and deer when scenting birds.  Hounds are trained to follow the scent of the game they are to hunt and ignore other scent. 

If you have 1 or 2 LGDs and coyotes are still getting in and killing your stock, you are under dogged.  Take a close look at your property terrain, and walk your fences to find where predators may be getting in and hiding.  Are the predators luring your guardians away and then slipping in to kill while they are out of the way on the other side of the property?  This happened to us on 5 fenced acres with 2 Anatolians.  An influx of coyote packs after fire season tripled our predator load.  Because of the terrain our 2 dogs were unable to protect our sheep when they were left out to graze at night.  Our 2 dogs were exhausted working day and night.  After losing 2 lambs (which were killed but not eaten since our dogs got to them right after the kill) we started locking the sheep up at night again and also added another dog. 

Changing our shepherding practices and adding a 3rd Anatolian should do the trick - we have not lost any more animals.  With the rain we have gotten in southern California this year, the brush is 5' tall now right up to the fence line and on the other side allowing predators to approach closely and obscuring the dogs' sightlines.  This makes it makes it hard for the dogs and they have to working harder.  Locking up the sheep at night in night folds close to the house will keep the flock safe and allow the dogs to patrol around them more easily.  Especially since we have 2 flocks now having separated the ewes with the rams for breeding.

LGD breeds deter predators by their size and ferocity while living with the flock or herd.  Except in areas that are home to packs of wolves, 4 guardian dogs are usually enough, even against cougar and bear.  Most predators won't come after prey if there is a large barking LGD defending the flock.  Predators do not have HMOs and cannot afford to become injured.  An injury in the wild b=means death.  Usually they will avoid the protected flock for easier pickings down the block.  Wolf packs are a different story.  In areas where wolves have been reintroduced in the US, or in Canada where they were never eradicated, you need a much larger pack of LGDs since some wolf packs number up to 20.  Also wolves are much larger than most coyotes (which only range in size from 35 to 65 lbs, depending on their territorial range).  Wolves are the reason most LGDs are so large.

Hope this helps.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Jan 29, 2020)

woodsie said:


> My neighbour just stopped by for eggs and said that he was looking for an exceptional coyote killer dog...he just saw 6 of them this morning and our dogs have been going nuts! My two Pyrs are locked in the sheep pen, so the sheep are safe but I am nervous about my rabbits and 3 goat kids in the pen a few hundred feet away.
> 
> Anyways he has 5 dogs including a GP but they can't seem to catch and kill those pests and he has 350 goat herd in kidding season. I can see why he wants the coyotoes taken care of. He was looking for a Russian Wolfhound but nothing remotely in our area and it seems most are mostly show not working lines.
> 
> Any suggestions, need something with some speed as I think the regular dogs (Pyr, Shepherd, cattle dogs are getting out run)?


I would worry about the rabbits too. good luck on keeping them safe.. Its difficult to take care of animals these past few days.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Jan 30, 2020)

CochinBrahmaLover:) said:


> I'd go with Australian Cattle Dog
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Australian Cattle Dog looks so nice... And it looks very dependable, I hope someone here can send me a pup.. hahaha!! I will take care of it will all my heart.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 17, 2020)

The premise that LGDs are used as predator killers is to misunderstand their correct use.  LGDs are not predator hunters.  LGDs *will* kill predators when necessary, *BUT* usually it is not necessary in a fenced or enclosed flock/herd situation which is what the majority of smallholders have.  

First, it is necessary to understand how the LGD is designed to protect his flock, and how he, she, or they go about doing it.  Most LDGs are very large, powerful dogs.  A normal size LGD is much larger than a normal coyote and outweighs the coyote by 2 to 3 times their weight.  The size alone is intimidating to most predators.  LGDs protect their charges by setting up a flock perimeter, marking it with urine, and patrolling it frequently.  Barking is the method by which the LGD announces to the surrounding predators that he is in charge of his territory and protecting it.  The barking does not always take place when the dog sees a predator.  LGDs bark at different times during the day and night to remind predators that they are on the job.  It is the LGD equivalent of posting "No Trespassing" signs. 

Second, it is necessary to understand that wild predators are stealth hunters and are not willing to risk injury to obtain a kill, unless they are starving.  They hunt for food and to train their offspring.  Injury to a predator can lead to death through either infection or starvation while they are unable to hunt due to the injury.  If your livestock is guarded sufficiently by the required number of LGDs for your predator load, predators will avoid your livestock and go to another property that has no protection.  It is not necessary to kill the surrounding predators to accomplish this since new predators will move in to fill the vacuum created by that eradication.  (This paragraph does not address domestic dog packs - they are another issue.)

Third, if you have an LGD (LGDs) and continue to have predator attacks, it is time to reevaluate your predator load and ranching practices.  Maybe the predator load has increased (due to the fires a couple of years ago our predator load increased 5X), or your area and terrain has changed, or your LGDs have gotten too old or are disabled.  Have you increased the amount of acres your flock is allowed to graze?  Are you lambing in open range without allow your dogs sufficient access?  Has your flock been moved onto new terrain where there is more predator cover and the dogs have not had enough time to clean the area out?  Do you have enough dogs to protect the acreage and number of animals?

Bringing in LGDs and expecting your dogs to "kill" all the predators that you see is unrealistic.  Your dogs will not go after predators that are not a danger to their flock. You don't want your LGDs to do that anyway since you do not want injuries to your LGDs either. Aside from vet bills, you will not want the LGDs to be off work and unable to guard due to their injuries.  LGDs use common sense in protection - they do not attack animals they do not have to.  On the other hand, predators that insist on attacking the flock in spite of your LGD's warnings will suffer injuries or death from your LGDs.  

The main results you want from your LGDs are not the complete absence of all predators from your surrounding areas, but the fact that *you have not suffered any losses to your own flocks.  *

To determine if your LGDs are doing their jobs properly ask yourself if you have you lost any livestock.  If the answer is "NO", they are working.  Just because you see a lot of coyotes around your property means nothing.  If your neighbors have lost livestock and you still have not, it shows how well your dogs are working.  If you are losing livestock, refer back to Number 3 above.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 17, 2020)

By the way, bringing in wolfhounds will not be effective.  Sight hounds have to be trained to track and chase the correct kind of prey.  Wolfhounds, whether Russian, Irish, or otherwise, have not chased wolves in hundreds of years.   Your neighbor's best bet is either a rifle, if hunting is allowed in your zoning, or baited traps and a .22 once they are caught.  However, remember that once you eradicate the resident packs, surrounding packs will produce more pups that will move into the territory.


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## Baymule (Feb 19, 2020)

Case in point; we have 2 Great Pyrenees, 1 Great Dane/Black Labrador (farm dog) and an Anatolian puppy. We have sheep, never had losses.

A neighbor a mile away has goats with guard donkeys. A cougar killed five goats one night about 4 months ago. It was heard close to our property several times after that, screaming. Our dogs were going nuts, the cougar moved on.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Feb 25, 2020)

CochinBrahmaLover:) said:


> I'd go with Australian Cattle Dog
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some of the dogs which can easily kill a coyote include, Caucasian Ovcharka, Central Asian Shepherd, Kangal, Anatolian Shepherd, Sarplainic, Black Russian Terrier, Komodor, Neopolitan Mastiff, Cane Corso, American Bulldog, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Akita, Rottweiler, Presa De Canario, Dogo Argentino,


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## Ridgetop (Feb 25, 2020)

Australian Cattle Dpgs are very tough.  I have heard that they are harder on sheep though since they are bred for working cattle which need a tougher dog who is not gentle.

They are great farm dogs though and like you said are game for anything.  We had an Australian Shepherd X Cattle dog cross years ago, and he was super aggressive towards neighbor dogs and coyotes coming in after our animals.   I got him for the children from a friend who was giving away the pups.  He was great - super sharp, easily trained and a tough little guy.  Sadly he was poisoned, we think by a neighbor who was putting out poison bait for rodents, etc.  We don't know how he got hold of it, and our vet worked on him for days but no use.


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## Jeff n Jenny (Feb 27, 2020)

woodsie said:


> My neighbor just stopped by for eggs and said that he was looking for an exceptional coyote killer dog...he just saw 6 of them this morning and our dogs have been going nuts! My two Pyrs are locked in the sheep pen, so the sheep are safe but I am nervous about my rabbits and 3 goat kids in the pen a few hundred feet away.
> 
> Anyways he has 5 dogs including a GP but they can't seem to catch and kill those pests and he has 350 goat herd in kidding season. I can see why he wants the coyotes taken care of. He was looking for a Russian Wolfhound but nothing remotely in our area and it seems most are mostly show not working lines.
> 
> Any suggestions, need something with some speed as I think the regular dogs (Pyr, Shepherd, cattle dogs are getting out run)?


Howdy!
I have a coyote problem too. We have 70A at the end of the road which backs up into about 10-square miles of wooded wilderness. One challenge for us is that a good guard dog might get into the backcountry and kill a neighbor's dog. We also like to watch (and eat) the deer, wild hogs, etc. So, no dogs yet.
I don't want a dog limited by fence perimeter. I don't want predators that close.
However, the Akbash is an interesting consideration for us.
I have had good luck with traps, and a 22.250 if I see them first.
But several times Jenny has seen one come out of the woods and took off after like some mean momma.
Coyotes are cowards! But they're the sneakiest of cowards.
Coyotes are very smart. They will watch and stalk and learn when, where, and how to succeed.
The Akbash is a strong-willed, independent dog. They need an owner who has some dog experience.
Let us know how this unfolds. Where about are you in NC?


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## Jeff n Jenny (Feb 27, 2020)

Ridgetop said:


> Australian Cattle Dpgs are very tough.  I have heard that they are harder on sheep though since they are bred for working cattle which need a tougher dog who is not gentle.
> 
> They are great farm dogs though and like you said are game for anything.  We had an Australian Shepherd X Cattle dog cross years ago, and he was super aggressive towards neighbor dogs and coyotes coming in after our animals.   I got him for the children from a friend who was giving away the pups.  He was great - super sharp, easily trained and a tough little guy.  Sadly he was poisoned, we think by a neighbor who was putting out poison bait for rodents, etc.  We don't know how he got hold of it, and our vet worked on him for days but no use.


It's hard losing a good dog!


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## YourRabbitGirl (Mar 16, 2020)

woodsie said:


> My neighbour just stopped by for eggs and said that he was looking for an exceptional coyote killer dog...he just saw 6 of them this morning and our dogs have been going nuts! My two Pyrs are locked in the sheep pen, so the sheep are safe but I am nervous about my rabbits and 3 goat kids in the pen a few hundred feet away.
> 
> Anyways he has 5 dogs including a GP but they can't seem to catch and kill those pests and he has 350 goat herd in kidding season. I can see why he wants the coyotoes taken care of. He was looking for a Russian Wolfhound but nothing remotely in our area and it seems most are mostly show not working lines.
> 
> Any suggestions, need something with some speed as I think the regular dogs (Pyr, Shepherd, cattle dogs are getting out run)?


Some of the dogs that can easily kill a coyote include Caucasian Ovcharka,American Bulldog,  Central Asian Shepherd, Kangal, Anatolian Shepherd, Sarplain, Black Russian Territory, Komodor, Neopolitan Mastiff, Cane Corso,  Rhodesiam Ridgeback, Akita, Rottweiler, Presa De Canario, Dogo Argentino,


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## Ridgetop (Mar 19, 2020)

Again, please note that while these dogs can and will kill coyotes that bother their flocks, their first line of defense is to establish a warning perimeter with smell (marking their boundaries with urine) and barking.  They will not deliberately kill hunt down and kill predators around them unless those predators come in after the animals.  Their first driven instinct is to *protect* their livestock, not to hunt down and kill other animals.  

If your neighbor wants to hunt down the coyotes he needs to hire or train a hunting pair, trio, or pack of his own.  Then go out with them and once they have tracked the coyotes and are holding them, shoot the coyotes.  Training his dogs to hunt and  kill coyotes *on their own* is asking for trouble.

Does your neighbor have LGDs now?  Has your neighbor lost any stock?  If the answer is "Yes" he has LGDS, and "No" he has not lost stock then his dogs are working just fine.  If he does not have any LGDs, then he needs some.  If he wants dogs that are about 10 months old and trained. I know of a woman in Idaho who has several working Anatolians she might be willing to sell.  She has coyotes, fox, wolves, bear and cougar after her sheep so these dogs are working now against these predators.  She has too many which is why she would be willing to sell a couple.  I have a bitch out of the litter she bred 18 months ago, and Angel has been working well with my other 2 Anatolians for the past year.  The lady's name is Debra Buckner.  Her email is debra@elkhornbnb.com.  I get nothing from her for telling people about her dogs.  Erick Conard in Texas, long time breeder of working Anatolians will also vouch for her and her dogs.  Her dogs are good workers, healthy, the parents are OFA certified, she has a guarantee and contract. 

Please try to dissuade your neighbor from trying to buy dogs trained or "guaranteed to kill coyotes".  It is a bad idea and the dogs will eventually kill other things unless properly confined and managed.


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## YourRabbitGirl (Apr 1, 2020)

woodsie said:


> My neighbour just stopped by for eggs and said that he was looking for an exceptional coyote killer dog...he just saw 6 of them this morning and our dogs have been going nuts! My two Pyrs are locked in the sheep pen, so the sheep are safe but I am nervous about my rabbits and 3 goat kids in the pen a few hundred feet away.
> 
> Anyways he has 5 dogs including a GP but they can't seem to catch and kill those pests and he has 350 goat herd in kidding season. I can see why he wants the coyotoes taken care of. He was looking for a Russian Wolfhound but nothing remotely in our area and it seems most are mostly show not working lines.
> 
> Any suggestions, need something with some speed as I think the regular dogs (Pyr, Shepherd, cattle dogs are getting out run)?


Some of the dogs that can easily kill a coyote include: Caucasian Ovcharka, Central Asian Shepherd, Kangal, Anatolian Shepherd, Sarplain, Black Russian Zone, Komodor, Neopolitan Mastiff, Cane Corso, Ameeeican Bulldog, Rhodesiam Ridgeback, Akita, Rottweiler, Presa De Canario, Dogo Argentino,


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