# At what age do you test for CAE, CL, and Jones?



## CrystalSN85 (Mar 8, 2018)

I currently have 6 bottle baby Boers. Four came from one farm and two from another. I currently have the two form the other herd separated completely since they were rescues and I know nothing about where they came from, no tags, nothing. At what age can I do testing? I was considering doing testing for CAE and CL soon. Four are 8 weeks and two are 6 weeks. I figured I would test for Jones after they have been weaned since it can be found in cows milk which I feed them. Its impossible to run a test for every gallon I buy form the store.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 8, 2018)

For CAE and CL they want a minimum of 6 months... personally I like the 8 month mark.
For Johnes they want 18 months.  
No, you really cannot test the milk without the proper test equipment.

Keep in mind 1 time testing is not the most conclusive. You want to test annually. Each goat.


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## CrystalSN85 (Mar 8, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Keep in mind 1 time testing is not the most conclusive. You want to test annually. Each goat.


Does it have to be each goat individually? I was going to send it in groups. The four boys in one and then the brother and sister in another. If anything came back then I was going to test the group individually. Is this not acceptable?


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## BoboFarm (Mar 8, 2018)

Not to hijack this thread but would you only test goats that you intend to keep? Would one test kids destined for the freezer or being sold?


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## Southern by choice (Mar 8, 2018)

Because you are sending in a blood sample each is individual.  CAE and CL are blood samples so you would be drawing blood from each goat.

Johnes has different ways - you can do serum (blood) or the most accurate way is fecal... it takes up to 16 weeks but is the most accurate way of testing for Johnes.
Johnes.org  can give you the info you need.

@BoboFarm  IMO  testing whole herd is practical only because these diseases "shed".   If any breeding stock them you would want clean animals... once foundation stock is established and just raising kids for freezer than no I wouldn't -  they will be processed between 4-6 months. Animals you keep to breed or to sell as breeding stock IMO should be tested.


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## CrystalSN85 (Mar 8, 2018)

Okay, I read somewhere that some people pool the blood samples and just mark what animals went with each sample. It could have been for something completely different. I have read so much. lol 

@BoboFarm That probably would have been my next question. Thanks for asking. 
@Southern by choice What does IMO stand for? I'm not up-to-date on all the abbreviation lingo. lol


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## Southern by choice (Mar 8, 2018)

I have never heard of pooling blood. The fecal- yes.
IMO = In My Opinion


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## CrystalSN85 (Mar 8, 2018)

Okay, I only have 6 right now, so it isn't that big a deal to test each one. I might do some research on it for future knowledge when I grow my heard. Might save some money since I plan on having 60+ does minimum. That's a lot of tests each year.  After I reach a certain number I would like to close my herd. Which leads me to my next question. Once I close my herd would it still be necessary to test every year? Maybe test for a couple years in a row after to be sure, then every so many years?


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## Southern by choice (Mar 8, 2018)

CAE should be done EVERY year!  Especially CAE!
"Titers" can change over years especially on aged does.

Use a GOOD lab, not some of these cheapo places... been seeing many animals not accurately represented by their testing.

We tend to break ours up. Does at one time of the year, generally before breeding... Bucks later, after rut... or April -June when their neck isn't so swollen from rut.


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## BoboFarm (Mar 8, 2018)

Is there a better time to test?


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## Southern by choice (Mar 8, 2018)

Not really.

I just have found drawing blood on bucks starting in Aug on through January can be difficult. Their necks are huge and swollen from rut and it makes it very hard to draw from the jugular.
The does, I do like to test just prior to breeding... so that is July or Aug because we like to breed Aug/Sept - doesn't always work that way though.

When we had fewer goats I liked to do all goats around June...  

Aged does IMO should be tested again 3 weeks before kidding.

Lot's of hooplah about inaccuracy of tests etc... and there is some truth to some of the testing like CL and serum Johnes... on the other side of that is consecutive yearly testing is not going to give you a false negative over and over year after year *on the same goat*.
By doing this you can also see if something changes, take action before there becomes a whole herd issue etc.

After so many years many will go to every other year for CL as it is the most expensive test.


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## BoboFarm (Mar 8, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Use a GOOD lab, not some of these cheapo places


Who do you consider a good lab?

Do you draw the blood and send it in for CAE and CL or do you have that done at the vet?


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## Southern by choice (Mar 8, 2018)

I like our State Lab (NC- Rollins Lab)  they do our CAE and Johnes, and by permission they send out some of the serum to UC Davis for CL. I get billed from Rollins and UC Davis.
I like UC Davis for CL... our  state lab doesn't have the equipment for CL testing. It is also very inexpensive for State residents, actually very inexpensive for out of state as well.

WADL is very good, most Universities or State Labs is who I would stick with.

This coming year I will send everything to WADL- sometimes it is good to switch up from time to time.

I have been drawing blood for IDK- like 30 years or so so I draw my own blood.
I will say there was a break in there and so when I got into goats I was really good at small vein, legs etc... but not proficient at jugular so I did have my vet come oout for "refresher" tecnhnique. As leg veins and jugular draws are a bit different. I personally just felt more comfortable doing it this way. Did I have to, no, but being rusty I thought it was best.

Jugular draws are VERY easy.  Purchasing red tops and syringes, needles are inexpensive.  It is nice because anytime you bring in an animal you can test while it is still in quarantine.
Some things by law a vet would have to do because of Federal paperwork which is TB/Brucellosis.

I encourage people to work with their vets as much as possible because they really are the ones to go to when there is an isssue. Forums are great, and many get support that they may not have otherwise, but in general I think searching until you find a vet you can work with is very valuable.

I test my herd for ME. Our clients get the benefits of a tested herd and healthy goats, but I am not testing for them.


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## BoboFarm (Mar 8, 2018)

I was a vet tech for several years so I have no problem with drawing blood. I prefer jugular draws over leg draws any day, as long as you have a proficient helper.

We have a large animal vet down the road. I'll have to see if they treat goats. I agree that a good vet is invaluable but I also do not like to rely on them for things I can do myself. I also worked as a tech caring for lab animals at the university and the vet I worked with cared for the university sheep and cattle. He may be a good resource too.

Thanks @Southern by choice


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