# First time kindling losses, is it normal?



## goatsrulemymorning (Jan 23, 2015)

I have 3 NZ does, one gave birth on the cage floor, but pulled enough fur out to bed them, then I put them in the box with the fur, they're doing fine day 10...
The other two started stealing Timothy hay and carrying it around so we put in the nests, and hay and shavings, they emptied them multiple times, then nothing...
 This evening I went out to find one had her 7 on the floor....46° outside, brought them in,warmed them up , so we gave them to the success rabbit...she nursed them, in the meantime the other one had her 5 on the floor all over the place and chewed off legs, tails off on 3 of them, tried to warm the remaining 2 but they failed....
So, I reckon I'm asking, is it normal for first time does to wig out and behave like this?....
Cattle and pigs were so much easier...
I'm beginning to take the losses personally....


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## goatsrulemymorning (Jan 23, 2015)

And of the second 2 does, only 1 pulled fur?


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## alsea1 (Jan 23, 2015)

First timers can be a bit clueless. Breed them again and see how it goes.


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## JakeM (Jan 24, 2015)

I agree with alsea, I had a doe that had half her litter in the box and half on the wire. She pulled very little fur. The kits luckily survived.

As for the fur, when does have kits, it triggers something (seriously forgot what it's called, but let's go with instinct) to release their belly fur. This clears the area around the nipples to kits can find them easier while providing a soft and warm place to sleep. The fur won't just be released so the doe has to pull it out. So if she has kits correctly next time around and there's no fur, you can pull the fur yourself. Just be careful not to pull on a teat. It will come out very easily.


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## Citylife (Mar 7, 2015)

It's quite normal for them to wig out a bit.  Sometimes you even have to wait 12 hours and carefully put her in the next box and hold her calmly so she figures out that nursing will release the other discomfort she is having.


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## secuono (Mar 7, 2015)

It's normal. They don't have doctors and nurses to tell them what and how to do it. Instinct might not come in for hours, days or not until the 2nd or 3rd breeding.


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## goatsrulemymorning (Mar 7, 2015)

Yeah, I kind of figured that, we rebred after a few weeks, one of the does that lost her litter last time on the floor, #1.finally got them in the nestbox,  but at the front, on top of the materials, uncovered, we tried warming them, but no luck, lost all 4 of them, we have small heating pads but they are under the rear of the box.
The other 2 had them in the nests, 9 each , lost one of the original success doe's (#2) kits, sac on it's head, she nurses extremely well, so they are plump, she kindled 8 hours after the second doe during daytime.
The #3 doe kindled in the nest, but didn't nurse for the first 48 hrs, recorded her on cam, she lost one during birth, she doesn't seem to produce much milk, (they are half the size of the kits born 8 hours later to the success doe), so we sit her(#3)on the nest 3x a day, she nurses them for about 2 min, cleans them, gets off, runs my hand out of her cage.not a happy girl.
And we put the success mom, (#2) on their nest (,#3's kits), once a day, and she lets them nurse, so they're fattening up finally.
One more try and then we'll cull the ones  that don't pick it up in their own.
Trial and error...


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