# New goat herd project. advise pics posted



## heatherlynnky

Ok so I currently have 3 goats. I have a Sannen/boer mix doe, and 2 nigerian dwarf does. All at least 2 years old and never had a kid ( I have no male). I think its time the gals got knocked up. I would also like to add a Nubian or 2 to the mix for milk. The goal in all this is to make the goats a bit productive. Have some babies and some milk.

I have had nanny's in the past but I did it purely as a hobby. I was not looking for milk quality ( hence the nubian) 

I just don't know if I am completely mad for thinking of doing this. Taking my little girls and putting them in with a big ugly smelly billy ( I am not fond of the billy smell). I do have a friend with a nigerian dwarf buck that I can borrow to knock up all the girls in one go. Is this feasible? Sannen/boer/ nigerian sounds a bit confused. My ND girls would be perfectly fine and I do have a rather beautiful blue eyed black spotted girl and he has a beautiful blue eyed black spotted buck............

Can one buck cover so many different breeds lol. This will be one rather confused herd. I want milk though and nigerian milk stinks like mad. I cannot drink it. So that leads me back to the nubian.


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## babsbag

Nigerian milk stinks...NEVER heard that one before. It is supposed to be the highest in butter fat and the best tasting. Many prefer it over any other breed. If the milk you have tasted stinks then it is the:

1. way the goat milk is handled, not chilled fast enough or just not milked in a clean manner.
2. what the goat is being fed.
3. the doe lives with a buck in rut. And I mean in the same pen where they literally rub on each other.

Second to Nigi milk comes Nubian, then LaMancha, then Alpines and the rest.

Yes, a buck can cover all those breeds most likely with no problem at all.  And I wouldn't bet the farm that your milk will stink.


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## frustratedearthmother

While I've never had Nigerian goat milk- I have milked both Nubians and Pygmies.  Pygmy milk and Nigerian milk are both very high in butterfat and I suspect they taste similar.  At least with my own goats the Pygmy milk taste is superior to Nubian milk.  Now-don't get me wrong- Nubian milk is good stuff- but the milk from the dwarf goat is sooo much sweeter.  My children used to describe it as tasting like a melted milkshake.  

My focus now is on nubian/Pygmy crosses.  Best of both worlds in my opinion. 

 I second what Babsbag says-the Nigi buck should be able to handle the job.  And also- like Babsbag said- I've never heard of Nigi milk stinking.  Might be an individual issue or bad handling, mastitis, or some other isolated cause.


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## heatherlynnky

How long does the doe have to be away from the male? The goat I milked had the WORST SMELLIEST milk and I did everything I could. I sanitized. I did my research before we ever got to that point but it just smelled so bad. Anywho I got her a couple months before she had her babies and she was living with one of the smelliest bucks ever. I ended up leaving my clothes outside after visiting him. His owner was getting rid of him because of it. She had multiple bucks and they all stunk a bit but this one would gag you. But they had been apart for 2 months before I milked her. She smelled from being around him but I washed her when we got her home because of the strong smell. Could it have lasted that long?  From what I am hearing though none of my worries are a real issue.  That's a relief. I am buying a nubian or two to add to my little herd. I think 5 gals is my limit at this point because I do plan on all of them having kids in the spring.


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## babsbag

Isn't a pygmy/Nubian cross a Kinder?


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## babsbag

I have never had a doe live with a buck, only visit for a breeding, but I do believe that the odor could last a long long time on their skin and coat. I think you would have to wash the heck out of her with some coffee soap or some other odor removal soap to get that odor gone. I would NEVER let a dairy doe live with a buck while he is in rut. Other times, sure, but not during rut. If the milk smelled that is probably what it was. That odor is so strong and so hard to remove, it can permeate everything in the house if you aren't careful.

That being said, I still own bucks and I like them. The smell doesn't bother me anymore but I DO NOT want it in my  milk or on my furniture or in my car. I am careful what I do after visiting with my buck.

Warm goat milk does have a different odor than cow milk, but I would never say it stinks. The goats you have will probably have great milk and the Boer cross, if she has enough to milk, should have really nice high butterfat milk.


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## heatherlynnky

Yea the smell was strong. I think I washed those pants  a few times before I gave up and they were for barn use only. I do not own a buck but the lady I got mine from had 3 and they stayed 24/7 with hers. So maybe that was the problem. I washed her once , maybe I should have completely shaved her and then washed her a bit more.  Ok well none of mine are stinky now and no male is in sight. They would only see one to get pregnant and then come back home.

I have had very very good goats milk and it did smell a bit different but it was not gross stinky, so I really think it was her blasted bucks fault lol.  Well I am getting a Nubian this weekend and arrangements are made to borrow a less smelly male when the girls need a bit of attention


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## frustratedearthmother

@babsbag 

Yes, a registered animal that is a cross between a registered Pygmy and a registered Nubian is a Kinder.  First cross is an F-1, second generation F-2 and so on and so on.  I believe you get an actual Kinder after five generations.  

The Kinder association has trademarked the "Kinder" name and legally a peron is not allowed to us the Kinder name unless their animal is registered with their association- which is why I sometime call mine 'kinder-type' goats or just call them Nubian/Pygmy crosses.

My goats will be registered Kinders if I ever get my lazy, procrastinating behind caught up on my paperwork, lol!

p.s.  great milkers, great tasting milk, meaty enough to eat (if you're of a mind to), easy keepers, easy kidders, and just all around great critters!  I kinda like them, lol.  

Sorry-didn't mean to hijack the thread.


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## babsbag

I know someone near me that raises Kinders but haven't seen her goats. It sounds like something I would like, as long as the are quiet; Nubians can be SOOOOOOO noisy.   I have primarily Alpines, 1 togg, and 2 LaManchas. Boers are all gone but 2 and those are sold. Concentrating on the dairy so Boers aren't part of the plan.


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## heatherlynnky

I am just trying to picture what I would get with all this crossing and struggling. I do think I would love to have my ND bred to another ND. I have a beautiful blue eyed girl and he has a beautiful moon spotted blue eyed boy he will loan me.  So how is the mini nubian as compared to the kinder? Oh and hijack as much as you want. I am digging for information big time. I am picking up a new goat or two this weekend to put in with my girls. Trying to figure out when is best to breed because I do not want to go through half frozen babies again. ( the result of letting a back have his way anytime she goes into heat rather than planning) If I really want to use the ND buck that I have access too. He is a gorgeous little thing but I really have my doubts about him being capable of breeding my sannen.


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## Goat Whisperer

I'm sure the ND buck can get it done. You can also put the doe down in a little ditch or put some hay bales out for the buck to stand on. They are determined little buggers 



> _Taking my little girls and putting them in with a big ugly smelly billy_



I don't know if you know this or not, but you should NEVER breed a miniature doe with a standard sized buck. It could kill your doe at kidding time.

I just wanted to let you know because a lot newbies don't know and have to deal with C-sections and/or a dead goat


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## heatherlynnky

Oh no I was talking about another nigerian dwarf but still when it comes to my baby girls they are all big ugly smelly males. Its like letting your daughter date the drummer, doesn't matter who he is your against it. I have miniature and standard girls and want to use a miniature billy.


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## Goat Whisperer

I think we need some pics of these gals!


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## babsbag

You would be surprised. Unless the ND buck is a yearling I bet he will do just fine. I have  a 8 month Alpine buck breeding all my does this year and he probably isn't any bigger than a mature ND buck.


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## heatherlynnky

I will have to get when its not raining. I have a white Nigerian Dwarf and Black one with white spotting and blue eyes. My sannen is white and I really never thought I would breed her because I was told she had wry mouth and that nothing could be done for her. However I had a dairy goat farmer who is also a vet come look at her. Her jaw was broke at some point before I bought her and as she grew her mouth twisted. He said he could even feel where it was broke :-(  She is in great physical shape though and he said personally he would breed her as long as she stayed in good physical shape. She is a good little girl  and the leader of my pack. Very affectionate so I think having her own would be nice.  Not sure I could ever take babies from her though lol. I have a weak spot for her because of the mouth.


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## heatherlynnky

Ok so serious advise here. My goats are a tad....chubby. Not bad but they can stand to loose a bit. My dad just will not give in on them getting less. He is 80 and there is just no convincing the man. Anyway the nigerians are closest to being the right weight. The sannen with the twisted jaw is the chubbiest. Would you mess with her weight? The jaw really does not cause her much trouble obviously because she hogs food. So is it safe to put her on a diet if I can manage it?

Also when would you breed. I really do not want half frozen babies. I do have a warming box already but still. I really prefer they were born later in spring than earlier.


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## heatherlynnky

So I got in touch with my goat buddy and we are on for breeding the first 3 girls whenever I want. I think the nubian I will wait a tad on. The one I really want is too young to breed so I will keep her away from the buck, unless when I get there tomorrow I see an older one that catches my eye. I never know which will hit my fancy till I am with them. Very excited.


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## JAF Farm

Hello from the JAF farm.  We are newbies with our boer goats, we currently have two registered 100% boer does, and then bought a 9 month old who isn't reg. %age unknown. 
We are wanting to breed this December to plan for the kids in early spring. However, we have one 3 yr old who has kidded twice before only has produce a single large kid. The other one is 1.5 this would be her first breeding. We would wait to breed the little one till next fall I think.  
My question is, we would borrow a boer/nubian buck to come over to breed them. So how long should we keep him to insure a solid breeding?  I was guessing 1.5 months or 2 months? since they only come in approx. every 21 days.


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## babsbag

2 months should be plenty but many times when a buck is introduce the does will cycle within a few days. If you witness a breeding you can send him home, or wait 21 days from that date and see if the doe cycles again. If not, it is a done deal and kids are one the way


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## heatherlynnky

Well my girls are going to a friends to stay until they are pregnant. End of the month they go visiting. He has a nubian male he is going to put my Sannen in with. A registered moon spotted blue eyed ND billy he will put my little girls in with.


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## Goat Whisperer

Are the does going to be with the bucks full time? If yes, I would order a marking harness for the buck!


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## heatherlynnky

I had to look that one up. They are going to be with him full time during the visit. They have never ever been around a male at all, so the hope is they go into heat when they are faced with one. We are going to be watching for a bit of action and hope this goes quickly. 

He tried to sell me one of his but I don't him I don't like smelly males lol.


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## babsbag

If you have the room and you want to do this every year you may learn to like the smelly males. So much easier.


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## OneFineAcre

You don't have to get a marking harness
You can just get some red carpenters chalk and sprinkle very liberally on his chest and abdomen
He will "mark" her when he mounts her


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## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> If you have the room and you want to do this every year you may learn to like the smelly males. So much easier.



X2 babsbag

If everybody took the attitude they didn't want bucks, we'd have a real problem wouldn't we?


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## babsbag

@OneFineAcre  we certainly would be in trouble. I took my does for breeding for a few years and I was worried about them staying there so I would try and catch the right day and hope my friend was home. Also the owner of the buck wanted proof of CAE and CL (rightly so) so I had to do that right before breeding season too. I finally bought a buck of my own.

The real challenge is when you have more than one breed and want to keep them separate. That is when the fun begins and you need a lot more land. I still have two LaManchas that I farm out for breeding. Just not ready to add a second buck; did that with Boers for a few years and it is nice to be back to just one.


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## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> @OneFineAcre  we certainly would be in trouble. I took my does for breeding for a few years and I was worried about them staying there so I would try and catch the right day and hope my friend was home. Also the owner of the buck wanted proof of CAE and CL (rightly so) so I had to do that right before breeding season too. I finally bought a buck of my own.
> 
> The real challenge is when you have more than one breed and want to keep them separate. That is when the fun begins and you need a lot more land. I still have two LaManchas that I farm out for breeding. Just not ready to add a second buck; did that with Boers for a few years and it is nice to be back to just one.



I like bucks.  I've got 6 bucks for 15 does. 
Of course, I've got one that I took back from someone that I don't need because I have his twin.  I haven't decided what to do with him yet.  We are going to probably breed one doe to him this fall. And, I've got another that we aren't sure about using any more.  I should sell him, but he's such a nice fellow.


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> X2 babsbag
> 
> If everybody took the attitude they didn't want bucks, we'd have a real problem wouldn't we?



That would be a problem! 

I know the smell is very offensive and it takes some getting use to. A few years back I was so sensitive that the family had to remove all clothing and put outside til it could be washed it made me gag!
During rut the slightest breeze and I would be gagging.
I am super sensitive to urine odors.
Despite all this it was a no brainer to me for not just the convenience but also for bio-security reasons. I didn't want to take my does anywhere and didn't want a buck coming in either. We do all sorts of testing and would want the bucks herd also tested. At that point very few with quality animal want to "lease". Although some have worked out good systems for having a few bucks that they lease out. @OneFineAcre  I believe he is contemplating this service as it is often necessary for those that cannot have a buck.  BUT OFA is cautious and I am sure will have strict requirements.
(Not trying to speak for you OFA just showing there are good breeders that do lease but are very careful to not put their healthy herds at risk)

After years of having bucks I have gotten quite use to the rut. I also LOVE LOVE LOVE bucks! We hug on them , smooch on them (not during rut LOL) they climb in our lap, and are so loving they often put the does to shame.

We are careful as to where we put them also. Never downwind where a neighbor can smell them...although not much of an issue with us. We only have 1 neighbor and she has severe allergies- NEVER opens the windows and rarely comes outside.

It is kinda sad, fall use to be clean crisp air- now because we are goat addicts we say "Fall is here, I smell RUT!" and we smile.


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## Southern by choice

Lol just saw the other posts... yep gotta love a buck! We have 12 bucks,  3 will be sold and 2 more possibly- yet next year we are adding 1 or 2. We only have 17 does.

Yep I LOVE the bucks!


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## OneFineAcre

The only leasing I do now, is to two farms who only have animals they got from me, and they still have them tested before I let them use them.

No way I would ever consider leasing them to anyone else.

The "service" I was considering would be to keep a couple of bucks in a totally separate area from my animals, that I would then not use to breed my animals.  Good bucks, but not great ones.  Would probably use them that way for a year, test them to make sure they were clean, and then sell them.
But, I don't know.  There would probably be good demand because of the goat rules in Raleigh.


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> The only leasing I do now, is to two farms who only have animals they got from me, and they still have them tested before I let them use them.
> 
> No way I would ever consider leasing them to anyone else.
> 
> The "service" I was considering would be to keep a couple of bucks in a totally separate area from my animals, that I would then not use to breed my animals.  Good bucks, but not great ones.  Would probably use them that way for a year, test them to make sure they were clean, and then sell them.
> But, I don't know.  There would probably be good demand because of the goat rules in Raleigh.



I knew you had a plan. Personally I think it is a good idea. We get lots of calls too and we just say no. Mostly it is someone with 2 goats and they don't want 4. (Buck and wether or 2 bucks)
Like you said- in your area many cannot have a buck.


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## babsbag

I don't mind bucks, I just need more pens to keep them in.
They do fine together until rut and then trouble brews. Also obviously need them separate for breeding too.

I DO NOT love on bucks any more than needed and I make sure I change clothes before sitting in my car or house.

I am very entrenched in Alpines, would like to switch to LaManchas, and maybe breed some minis. I need more bucks


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## heatherlynnky

For now rent a stud is the best option. Maybe once the honey do list is a bit smaller a separate area could be arranged. Right now I have just the right amount of housing for the girls but no separate area for boys. The horses do not much care for goats in their area and my cows are being bred for milk also. I had baby boys at one point and they were sweet as could be but with no separate area its was not feasible, they could not stay with mom and aunts. A neighbor with a buck that knows me and the gals is our best bet for now. 

I have another friend( I got one of the goat gals from her) who wants to talk about buying bucks and swapping them between farms. She raises very small scale and so am I so that would be nice. I am really limited on how many I can have right now. I think max number of permanent resident goats would have to be around 6 at least for the next year or so.  So how many keep their bucks full time with their girls? I was under the impression that was not ideal?


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## babsbag

I used to keep my buck with the girls. I wasn't milking much and not during rut. Then I got another buck so the boys stayed together all of the time. I also like knowing when my goats are bred, another reason to not keep them together full time.


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## goats&moregoats

It definitely is not ideal for breeding reasons. I kept my buck with my girls for two months, this year. I got end results that I wanted for four of them, but ultimately put another at risk. Won't be doing that again. No buck now until next fall and by then will have separate area set up for them. Last year he was with all the older girls, and I ended up not knowing exactly when two of them were due. His stinkiness did not rub off on the girls, but then again he wasn't to awful bad anyways.


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## heatherlynnky

We shall see what happens next year.  I think for this year I stick with the plan. Next spring he is expecting kids from his beautiful ND buck and if housing and another fenced in area can be provided I may consider. Everything in its time. I am taking baby steps here lol.


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## Southern by choice

We hand breed. Doe goes into heat and we bring a buck up and put him in the breeding pen and put the doe in. Stand and watch, done and over in a few minutes. Repeat the next day. Mark 150 days on the calendar. We always know the due date no guessing. Of course you have to remember to keep an eye on them to make sure the doe settled and doesn't go back into heat. 

If you know when they cycle then bring the buck in a day or two before- leave them together or do the hand breeding for a few days then off they go.

Many do leave them with the does for a month or two and that works just as well. I just don't like the guessing and waiting game. Too many sleepless nights as it is.


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## OneFineAcre

heatherlynnky said:


> For now rent a stud is the best option. Maybe once the honey do list is a bit smaller a separate area could be arranged. Right now I have just the right amount of housing for the girls but no separate area for boys. The horses do not much care for goats in their area and my cows are being bred for milk also. I had baby boys at one point and they were sweet as could be but with no separate area its was not feasible, they could not stay with mom and aunts. A neighbor with a buck that knows me and the gals is our best bet for now.
> 
> I have another friend( I got one of the goat gals from her) who wants to talk about buying bucks and swapping them between farms. She raises very small scale and so am I so that would be nice. I am really limited on how many I can have right now. I think max number of permanent resident goats would have to be around 6 at least for the next year or so.  So how many keep their bucks full time with their girls? I was under the impression that was not ideal?


No they don't stay together
Just for breeding
And still no pictures of your girls?


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## heatherlynnky

lol no sorry I got a bit involved in chores today. Moved and reorganized a medicine closet, cut and stacked a couple ricks of wood and rearranged a chicken coop so we could add 3 more nesting boxes. By the time I was done all I wanted was some chinese and exhausted vegitation lol.


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## heatherlynnky

These are not the newest pics but some from last year.  The babies are the 2 little billies I sold. The white gal without horns is crystal and the black gal is Olivia. The horned one with the crooked mouth is Hotwheels Holly. I added in a picture of my very favorite confidant and hopefully future milk provider Bessie.  These are my sweet girls.


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## Southern by choice

Adorable! Love your Bessie too!

and your ducks!


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## heatherlynnky

The goats love the ducks and geese. It sounds awful but the goats have the best fun doing what we call goose bowling. They wait till they are all clustered up and then they run through the middle of them. They kick up their heels and make a nuisance of themselves. Its rather a funny sight.


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## Southern by choice

Ok - I choked reading that! 

My goats have never done that but they will do other bratty things like make one of the LGD's move so they can lay there. Expect our one LGD- she moves for no one, nothing- goats always yield to her! Some of the goats will butt the chickens.

Our geese will BITE the goats and the LGD's.


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## heatherlynnky

I am disappointed and I really know the answer to what I am going to ask but I am going to ask anyway. We went to see the nubians who looked great in pics and......skinny, some are sick, one is in quarantine with a lump on its neck. Something they had in the herd that she thinks is now almost eradicated. So disappointed. There was a baby, such a pretty little girl....I don't think she will make it honestly. My heart is just so heavy. My tender side wants me to buy that baby and nurse her to health but I have been down that road and its not pretty. There was one really good looking girl that I was tempted on but I don't know what all is running through this herd. In the last 6 months 3 adults died and that has me scared. Yet here I sit fretting because that pretty little girl won't make it without more help. The people are really nice but I just think it got on top of them and they lost some controls with the herd. Maybe I should wait till spring and get a baby out of herds from someone I know personally. I would never endanger my girls. ehhh I didn't ask the question but I didn't really need to. I feel so bad right now. The people really care and are trying their best but......my girls. I just could not risk them. They all came from great breeders and I just could not risk it.


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## heatherlynnky

Oh crud is CL.......This may take an entire pot of tea and maybe a dash of rum in it. bah humbug :-(  Upside I didn't buy any goats. I still feel down because that poor little girl. I now understand why people have passed. It a risk they don't want to take.


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## Southern by choice

So sorry. 
You are right... you have to look out for your existing herd.
Sounds like they are having a bad run of it. 
We saw many farms in 2012-2013 that just seemed to have a really bad time of it. Some had cocci issues that had never had them before, some ended up with respiratory, some severe mite issues, some the dreaded barberpole. All these farms were great farms that just had a horrible season. Weather wise it was terrible with months and months of no break in the rain. Some farms lost whole herds of goats, some kids... it was a terrible year for goatkeepers in our region. 
Hope they (breeders) can recuperate. I know it is heartbreaking but you are wise to pass. 
CL- if you don't have it in your herd you certainly don't want to introduce it. Same as CAE.


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## OneFineAcre

you need to sanitize your clothes and shoes


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## Southern by choice

Good point. 
We never go on anyone's property without being in clean clothes and shoes... we shower and change after taking care of our animals and when we get home straight inside- shower, clean clothes bleach shoes!
We advice everyone to do the same.


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## heatherlynnky

Already did it. When I realized what I had walked into I made the kids strip when we got home. Thankfully flip flops are easy to bleach or toss


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## Hens and Roos

Is AI used much in goats?


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## heatherlynnky

I have some fairly serious questions. The lady whom we were going to get goats from started doing research after I said I felt the goats were too ill to bring into my herd. She is pretty certain its Johns disease and is having a different vet test them for this asap. Very sorry for her but to make sure we do not spread this what all should I do. I did touch goats and we were in the pens. All our shoes are in a rubbermaid right now. Will washing them be enough? safer to get rid of or is that going overboard? bleach, bleach and more bleach? Everyone stripped down and scrubbed up and the clothes will get a couple washings in hot. How about our van?  Ok yes I admit it, I am flipping just a tad. So far no one who was with us has been anywhere but the house. No where near the pens or anything.


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## Southern by choice

Everything sounds right, but cannot help with the car issue. Maybe vacuum and lysol?

Why does she suspect Johnes? Are the goats wasting? Diarrhea?
I sure hope that is not the case. That would be tragic!


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## OneFineAcre

Hens and Roos said:


> Is AI used much in goats?


Yes
Not very widespread but becoming more common
Semen is becoming more available too


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## heatherlynnky

WELL.......the goats were skinny but the vet she called said it was lack of minerals. To switch mineral types. She has a young one with scours but its like 7 months old. Nothing is helping the scours and all the goats are on the very  very skinny side. ( sometimes I even expect it. I am in a rural area with many poor but these people are not and they really had invested  in proper housing/fencing ect). She thought it was the teens just not feeding enough but I saw what her children gave the goats and it was plenty.  She had lost 3 adults in her herd in the last 6 months to what she thought was under feeding and not having the right minerals. They were using goat blocks and the vet told her that was the problem and it was killing them.  It was the only thing she came up with even though the kids were feeding them. They were very very thin.  Apparently the comments we made about being underweight and such got her thinking and she started digging. The adults don't have the runs but are very very thin. I would say emaciated even.  I hope its not and that its pretty much anything else. It is not good.


Ok so new plan. Keep the goats I have, don't get more for now. Next spring find well tested and do loads of research and wear disposable shoes. I will still breed my girls from the flock I am familiar with and know is safe. I essentially do have a closed herd because I got these 3 from others with tested and closed herds and they never leave the farm and no new comers have been welcomed. I think thats best for now.  Very scary. Once I feel well sanitized I will go give my girls a hug.


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## OneFineAcre

Bleach your clothes
Lysol the car
Don't get any goats from her
Sounds like she has a big problem


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## heatherlynnky

I am reconsidering even taking my girls to be bred. Maybe I should buy the billy from my friend. I know his are tested and healthy. Heck I was offered a family discount lol. Maybe its just better to have my own here. No outsiders and the girls never leave the hill.  I know I sound like I am freaking out but thats because I am. These are my baby girls. Heck I am ready to burn clothes and shoes to keep them safe. I think I need to go sanitize my van and then start sipping the chamomile.  I feel so very bad for the lady though. To put so much effort into caring for them properly and have something like that hit your herd. I really hope its something else. I am sure her children would be heart broken.


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## Southern by choice

I think she should have fecals run. Could be cocci loads, parasite loads. If all she does is "check eyelids" than that isn't good.
Most people have no real understanding of how to use FAMACHA properly, don't have a card and FAMACHA should NEVER be the only method used in evaluating a goat. EPG counts, proper parasite identification is key. I wonder if she is having cocci issues. Yes, often more a kid thing but adult goats can also be overcome with cocci and die.

You sound like you have a good plan!


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## Southern by choice

It may take awhile but you will learn to get over the rut smell! 

Sometimes when you see something tragic like this it helps to remind you of your own protocols and not letting your guard down.


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## Hens and Roos

So how does someone who is new to goats determine if the place they are looking to purchase from is safe(yep, we're kicking the idea around of getting 2 Nigerian Dwarfs) to avoid bringing in problems.


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## heatherlynnky

Hens and Roos my only advice after making every mistake in the book is to ask all the questions you think are stupid before you do anything. Some might even make comments about stupid questions. I always regret being too polite or too self concious to ask the questions that need to be asked. Eventually I will learn that lesson. 

What has worked best for me is to go with those I already trust. I have met some on here and after getting advice from them a while and hearing comments about their herd or how they do things....2 of my goats are from a lady on here and the other is from a friend who has a closed herd. I knew one by reputation and one by friendship.  Even having the best intentions on both parts though you can run into problems. This lady today had good intentions and was very very open about all these problems and everything the vet said but still I am in a little bit of a spot. I am glad instead of jumping I said I needed to think because away from those lovely doe eyes things were so much clearer and everything I had read on here came into play.


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## Hens and Roos

thanks, that makes sense for sure.  Right now even with our chickens and rabbits we are very careful of who we get animals from and who is allowed onto our property.  If we add new chickens it is either day olds or eggs and any rabbits are quarantined away from our group for at least 30 days if not 60 days.

right now we don't personally know anyone who raises the breed of goat we would like in our area so it makes it a bit harder.  If the seller also shows goats does that help establish creditability as to their animals health or not?


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## OneFineAcre

White buck shows how they get
This is Rocky


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