# She was due JAN 1: Is she pregnant?



## hollycow (Jan 6, 2012)

I received a goat a short while ago, Saanen, who was bred to a Boer, on August 4.  This puts her due date at January 1.  She has apparently kidded once before and she is not old.  I am new to goats but even I knew that she was looking more skinny than anything and not at all round like the Toggenberg doe I got at the same time who is due February 26 and who is HUGE.  Well January 1 has come and gone and I am a basket case.  I do not think she is pregnant but I read that some does do not show, especially if there is only one kid in there.  Gertie (the Saanen) does not look pregnant and she has none of the signs of a goat about to go into labour.  I am stuck.  I added some photos here for you all to check for me, if possible, and give some opinions.  Also, her udder looks bigger to me than normal but maybe she always had a "bigger" udder??? Argh.  I am so confused.


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## TigerLilly (Jan 6, 2012)

Do you know when she kidded last? Is it possible that she was still nursing a kid when you got her? If you've noticed a definite change in the size of her udder & she's bagging up, I'd say get ready for a birthing.  What does her 'back-side' look like? Round & puffy or not?

Personally, none of my goats were ever questionable as far as being preggers when they were due--even with birthing only one kidd, they got noticably fatter. But, mine are NDs & Pygmies.


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## hollycow (Jan 6, 2012)

She had been dried off when I got her.  

Her backside does not look that different from my regular, ready-to-be-freshened, Saanen doe.


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## TigerLilly (Jan 6, 2012)

Well, it sounds like she's preggers, but with her NOT looking it, I can only say that the only way to surely tell would be a blood test. I wouldn't bother though if she was only bred the once & there was no other chance of her getting preggers since. Wait it out another week or so (if you're sure the previous owner's date is correct)--if she doesnt deliver something, hang it up. She just looks very skinny to me, but that could be because I'm not familiar with the breed. My only dairy goat (alpine/togg X) isn't old enough to breed yet, but she's filled out more.


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## goatgirl (Jan 6, 2012)

I'll through a possibility out there that I would not believe completely had I not experienced it myself.... false pregnancy.   I had one of my best does have a false pregnancy last year.  She tested positive with my pregtone...got big, bagged up (I could squeeze milk out)had some stuff coming out but NO BABY.  This Does udder is showing some development.  Either the due date is wrong ..or she maybe trying to fool you. I'd feel of her just in front of her udder and see if you feel any movement...or any pokey limbs.let us know....im curious on this one.


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## Annamarierw (Jan 6, 2012)

My Saanen caries single babies deep and does not show a whole lot. (you can see baby moving if you look)
 If she is bagging up then prob. prego but if she is already bagging up you should be able to feel movement or pokey limbs like goat girl said. Keep us posted


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## hollycow (Jan 6, 2012)

I have no felt any movement on the right side, which is where I was checking.  I did not check underneath though.  Also, I have a stethoscope and I listened to her right side and low down I swear I heard a rapid heartbeat, unless it was hers.  On the left sound I only heard rumen noises.  I don't see any movement or feel anything in my Toggenburg either and she is definitely showing.


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## Queen Mum (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm guessing pregnant with a small single kid.  She's bagging up and she's late.  HOWEVER,  her due date can be anywhere from January 1 - January 10.


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## hollycow (Jan 7, 2012)

Still nothing and I am still stumped.  Her udder seems a hair fuller but the rest of her is the same.  I felt her belly all over and her right side but nothing jumped out at me in terms of fetal movement.  Her belly is very firm in front of her udder.


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## hollycow (Jan 8, 2012)

She really seems to be bagging up but she looks even skinnier, if that is possible.  I am graining her and she is on good quality grass hay with a mineral block.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 8, 2012)

hollycow said:
			
		

> She really seems to be bagging up but she looks even skinnier, if that is possible.  I am graining her and she is on good quality grass hay with a mineral block.


It is not unusual for a doe to look "less pregnant" as the kid drops.  Could be what you are seeing, maybe?


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## hollycow (Jan 9, 2012)

STILL nothing.  Her udder seems even fuller.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 9, 2012)

Is there a chance she took on the heat after the one the breeder thinks she was bred on?


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## goatgirl (Jan 9, 2012)

Alrighty.....I posted a reply to you previously and have more to add...WATCH THAT LITTLE TRICKY DEVIL!!!.......LOL...
I have been back and forth out to my barn this AM.  I have a Lamancha mix doe that I knew was pregnant but only because I pregtoned her about a month ago and confirmed it.  The ONLY sign she showed was her udder which although it was filling.....it was no where near looking like she was ready to deliver.  I wish I had a picture of her yesterday to show you.  You would never think she was pregnant.  About 5:30 or so yesterday we were out feeding and standing in the middle of the does and I comented to my husband that she did look like she was filling up some more but I would have completely missed it had I not been moving the Does to the barn(due to the weather this morning) she had a single perfectly heathy Doeling.  Up until the time she came out I had resigned myself to the fact the baby would probably die because I felt like she MUST be way early.  BTW this Momma had a c-section last year and incredibly recovered from Goat Polio/Listerosis last May. WEIRD!!!...Good luck with that Doe...Don't let her fool you.  It must be a Milk breed thing..lol.


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## hollycow (Jan 10, 2012)

When I checked this morning, there was nothing.

I looked in this afternoon and ...

THERE WERE TWO DOELINGS!!!!


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## marlowmanor (Jan 10, 2012)

Congratulations!  We need pictures now!  Please!


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## BetterHensandGardens (Jan 10, 2012)

Congratulations, so happy for your two little doelings!


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## fargosmom (Jan 10, 2012)

Congratulations!!  I'm very jealous.  *where are the goatie emoties?*


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## hollycow (Jan 10, 2012)

Here are some pictures ...  I have a heat lamp on and I have two little vests on them that were my son's when he was a baby.  I live in Canada and though the barn is insulated and draft-free, it is still pretty damp because it is not heated.  I hope I did okay but putting shirts on them.   I dipped their navels in iodine 7%.  I gave mom her dairy ration and some molasses.  I bought liquid selenium and vitamin E.  What dose should I give all of them and when?  What else should I do for the babies?  Mom has been vaccinated every year but I did not vaccinate her two weeks before birth like I read I was supposed to.


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## marlowmanor (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you for the pictures.  They are beautiful doelings!


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## Queen Mum (Jan 10, 2012)

AwwW!  Beautiful.   I knew it!  I knew it!  January 10.   And you got doelings too.  Lucky goat gramma!


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## zzGypsy (Jan 10, 2012)

the vests are good, but because they're a bit big they'll be out of them as soon as they start to move around a bit.  we use dog jackets or sweaters, we can get them at walmart for about $10, they stay on really well and can be washed when they get mucky.  not to mention there's not much cuter than a baby goat in a pink dog jacket with fur collar or a camo jacket with a skull embroidered on it  if they're out and it's sunny, you can take them off but we keep them jacketed overnights until they're established and active, longer if the weather is wet windy and cold.

we worm the mothers the same day they kid, or the next, becuase if they have any worms at all they'll get a bloom of them right after they kid... its the progesterone I think that wakes the worms up.

make sure the kids are getting enough milk, and that both sides of the udder are producing and unblocked, and that they're working both sides.

add some grain to mama's ration if you haven't already, since she's a bit thin she'll need the extra calories.  if you can put her on half or more alfalfa hay that will help with milk production too, it's high in calcium and protien.

other than that, with healthy kids, there's not much to do but enjoy!


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## kelsey2017 (Jan 10, 2012)

Congratulations!


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## VioletandBodie (Jan 10, 2012)

what cuties


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## Lothiriel (Jan 10, 2012)

Aww, congrats on the doelings!  They are adorable.


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## elevan (Jan 10, 2012)

Super cute!  Congrats!


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## autumnprairie (Jan 11, 2012)

adorable  Congrats!


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## RareBreedFancier (Jan 11, 2012)

Congratulations!  They are adorable!


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## jodief100 (Jan 11, 2012)

They are beautiful.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 11, 2012)

congrats,


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jan 11, 2012)

Beautiful!


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 11, 2012)

Congrats! I second what Gypsy said about making sure to feed the doe really well since she's thin and raising twins.  That's great she had does too!


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## AdoptAPitBull (Jan 11, 2012)

Wow! Looking at her, you would have never suspected two kids would have been in there! Just goes to show you that you truly can't tell just by looking!

They look so sweet in their little vests!


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## hollycow (Jan 11, 2012)

zzGypsy said:
			
		

> the vests are good, but because they're a bit big they'll be out of them as soon as they start to move around a bit.  we use dog jackets or sweaters, we can get them at walmart for about $10, they stay on really well and can be washed when they get mucky.  not to mention there's not much cuter than a baby goat in a pink dog jacket with fur collar or a camo jacket with a skull embroidered on it  if they're out and it's sunny, you can take them off but we keep them jacketed overnights until they're established and active, longer if the weather is wet windy and cold.
> 
> we worm the mothers the same day they kid, or the next, becuase if they have any worms at all they'll get a bloom of them right after they kid... its the progesterone I think that wakes the worms up.
> 
> ...


Thanks zzGypsy!

What do you use to deworm?  What dosage?  I am worried too about her having too many worms.  Would alfalfa cubes work too?  I don't have access to alfalfa hay ...


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## Ms. Research (Jan 11, 2012)

Congratulations on the 2 doelings.  

Hoping Mom and babies are doing well.

K


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## zzGypsy (Jan 11, 2012)

hollycow said:
			
		

> zzGypsy said:
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depends on what is working locally - probably a good question for your vet or a local breeder.  worms are more or less resistant in different areas, so what works here might not have any use where you are. Ivermectin is totally useless here, but valbazen works.  some wormers require precise dosing or they can be lethal, but most don't so you can estimate weight for dose.  also depends on what type of worms she has.  really the best thing to do is take some poop to your vet for a fecal test and advice on what's working locally.  she's likely to continue to lose weight if not treated for the correct type of worms.  to be sure your treatment is working, a second fecal should be done about 14 days (check timing with your vet) after the first.  fecal tests are inexpensive, so it's really a good diagnostic.

you can feed alfalfa cubes or pellets, however if she's not used to eating them she can have trouble eating them, or eat them without proper chewing and choke (which can be quite serious and needs a vet).  so... start by feeding one or two cubes or a handful of pellets and see how she does. you can try soaking a handful overnight and see if she'll eat the softened mush. if she will, start with soaked, and then gradually add a few unsoaked pellets or a cube or two and let her learn how to chew them.  ours grow up with access to pellets so they know how to eat them.  

BTW, cubes and pellets are less wasteful than hay as they sometimes will eat the leaves and leave the stems.  with the pellets and cubes they eat all of it.


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## wannacow (Jan 11, 2012)

Congratulations!  She was the same size as my FF saanen that is due the end of March.  I showed DH her pic, so when he starts to get impatient (which he will    ) he can remember what she looked like and quit telling me she's not bred.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 11, 2012)

alfalfa pellets would be a better choice. goats don't do to well with the cubes.  I would work her up to 1lb goat grain(3 cups), and 3 to 6 cups alfalfa pellets twice a day, plus all the hay she can eat.  Making changes to her feed every 3 or 4 days until she is on full feed. 

I would worm her with safegaurd, at 3 x the label dosage for 3 days in a row and then repeat in 2 weeks. Or also get some ivermectin and worm her with that weekly as well as the safegaurd, You can get a tube of ivermectin for horses, cheaper than getting the ivermectin injectable for cattle and give her a dosage for a 300lb horse, since she is probably close to 100lbs.  All wormers should normally be given orally. 



make feed changes slowly. 

I have some concerns that she is under condition enough that she isn't going to produce enough milk for hte kids, if her udder seems small and the kids are bothering her a lot, they will need to be supplemented with a bottle. Whole cows milk works well, but needs to be warmed to 104 degress, since they are used to nursing. good luck with her.


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## hollycow (Jan 11, 2012)

All great advice.  Thank you so much!  

Will advise on progress...


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## hollycow (Jan 11, 2012)

Since I am a newbie, I decided to get the goat vet out so that she could see Gertie and the kids.  I also will get her to talk about disbudding with me.  I do not want horns on potential milkers.


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## dreamriver (Jan 11, 2012)

congrats, they are cute!!!!


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