# Essential CD & T give IM to 18 goats/THANKS KIM



## DonnaBelle (Jan 6, 2013)

I have been following Roll Farms advice and giving my goats their yearly Essential CD & T shot IM in the hip area.

Everyone got their yearly shot yesterday, so they are all on the same schedule.

This is the way Kim does it and I have found it's so easy.  I use a l/2 inch 20 gauge needle and shoot at a 45 degree angle, it's so much easier than SQ.

I have not had any knots either!!

Thank's Kim, for your great advice!!

DonnaBelle


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Jan 6, 2013)

So this is IM instead?  I have only ever done SQ.  Would you pretty please repost her advice or a link to it.  I had a doe with a knot this year and it was driving me crazy.  I kept massaging it and it is gone now but it would be nice to not have it be an issue.


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 6, 2013)

Why IM? I've always given it SubQ and none has gotten a lump afterward and never had any issue. Just wondering why IM?


----------



## marlowmanor (Jan 6, 2013)

We always give our CDT shots IM. Much easier. The first SQ shot we did was for treatment of mites, and it took us a bit to figure out how to do it. Definitely prefer IM shots.


----------



## SheepGirl (Jan 6, 2013)

Don't do IM on meat animals unless you have to. It bruises the carcass and it has to be cut out which lowers the carcass value.

You can do IM for dairy animals, but I would recommend you do SQ for meat animals.

eta: If you have to do IM on a meat animal, do it in the neck where the meat isn't worth as much. NEVER do it in the leg or loin where the meat is worth more.


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Jan 6, 2013)

But wouldn't you want to avoid giving a vaccination close to butchering time?  Seems like it would be a waste of a vaccine


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 6, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> But wouldn't you want to avoid giving a vaccination close to butchering time?  Seems like it would be a waste of a vaccine


And for certain things you have a withdraw time.


----------



## SheepGirl (Jan 6, 2013)

I know this says for beef, but it can be applied to sheep and goats, too 

http://pubstorage.sdstate.edu/AgBio_Publications/articles/ExEx11003.pdf


----------



## DonnaBelle (Jan 6, 2013)

Well, my goats are Nubian dairy goats, and I have butchered three wethers at  90 lbs. and the butcher never said anything to me about the meat at the injection sites being bad or needing to be cut out.  They were give a CD &T shot at about 10 days of age at the time I disbudded them.  They were butchered at 8 months of age, and approximately 90 to 100 lbs on the hoof.

What I did yesterday:

I squirted alcohol on the injection site, gave an injection of Essential CD & T, ordered from Jeffers Vet Supply.  2 cc. per goat.

20 gauge, l/2 in. needle size.

I always use disposable needles and syringes.  One per goat.

Inject in the hip, at a slight angle (45 degrees) while Dh holds the goat in a corner of the barn.  We put them all in one side of the barn, take them through a gate to the other side, inject them and then kick them outside.  That way, we know we got them all.

Easy peasy, lemon squeezy as my 5 year old granddaughter says.

P.S. as I said, I got this from Kim Rolls, Rolls Farms, she forgot more about goats than I'll ever know....

DonnaBelle


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 6, 2013)

@DonnaBelle

Not saying you or Rolls is wrong at all. Just asking as to what the reasoning is. I know yours if because Rolls helped you out and told you that but I am wondering about her reasoning. That's all.


----------



## DonnaBelle (Jan 6, 2013)

I really hated the big knots that were on the goats after a regular CD & T shot.

Rolls told me about the Essential CD & T, it doesn't cause the knots, and the IM injection is just easier than the SQ.

My goats jump around when they are stuck with a needle, IM is much easier to give.

So there are 2 main reasons for the IM, no knots, easier to give.  The Essential CD & T has the reputation of not giving knots at any site of injection, so that's what I have used for the past year.

DonnaBelle


----------



## DonnaBelle (Jan 6, 2013)

Maybe Kim R. will see this and post her thinking here.

DonnaBelle


----------



## Renegade (Jan 6, 2013)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> I really hated the big knots that were on the goats after a regular CD & T shot.
> 
> Rolls told me about the Essential CD & T, it doesn't cause the knots, and the IM injection is just easier than the SQ.
> 
> ...


If a vaccine is prone to cause a knot it will do so whether it's given SQ or IM. You may think it's not causing a knot because it's in the muscle and you're not seeing it. 
We use Cavalry 9 SQ and have never had a problem.

Donna


----------



## Roll farms (Jan 6, 2013)

No shot lumps since I switched to Essential 3+T, which can be given IM or sub q.  We do it IM.

My reasoning was - since we got occasional shot lumps, and I was still dealing w/ a few CL goats, I never knew if the lumps were 'real' abscesses or shot lumps.

So we switched.

Again....to each their own and whatever works for you, groovy.

DonnaB, glad you're happy.

edited b/c I said we give it sub q in my first post because I hadn't had enough coffee yet.....


----------



## poorboys (Jan 7, 2013)

I changed too, I was using corvexin 8 and left big bumps all the time, so I switched to esstinial 3T, Not had a limp yet, some get it SQ and some IM only because some of them are easier to give shots to than the others, As long as they are getting their booster's without problems keeps me happpy.


----------



## babsbag (Jan 7, 2013)

I give any shot I can SubQ since having a goat go lame for a few days after an IM in the hip. I didn't do that shot, but I know that with my luck I would hit the nerve I try so hard to avoid. Sub Q is made for me.


----------



## JasonRain (Mar 20, 2013)

Don't do IM on meat animals unless you have to

_________________
Runescape Gold|wow gold|Buy RS Gold|Buy Runescape Gold


----------



## Mamaboid (Mar 20, 2013)

SubQ for everything we can here.  Just how I learned to do it when we first got the goats and have kept it up.


----------



## Canadiannee (Mar 20, 2013)

JasonRain - What is your reason for not doing IM on meat goats?

I understand that many individuals do what they were taught (know) or are most comfortable with... but I'd like to know why a few have said that you should not do IM for meat goats. I did read one poster who said because it bruises the carcass... but surely if we're talking about yearly vaccinations on breeders, or young stock (that has number of months before butcher) it shouldn't make a difference, should it?... we're talking about using 1/2" 20 gauge needle. Inquiring mind needs to know


----------



## larryj57 (Mar 20, 2013)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

> SubQ for everything we can here.  Just how I learned to do it when we first got the goats and have kept it up.


I agree, we use the SQ method  and have never had a lump show up.


----------



## Straw Hat Kikos (Mar 20, 2013)

JasonRain said:
			
		

> Don't do IM on meat animals unless you have to


Yeah I've heard that before but I don't take any stock in it and I do do IM shots. Some I do Sub Q, some IM.


----------



## Suburbanfarmer (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks for this thread! I have to give a couple of doelings their cd/t today. I did a couple of bucklings a couple of weeks ago SQ and I find that IM is soooo much easier for me to give (thus being easier on the goats!). I was going to research to see if I could give this IM. So, thank you for answering my question before I even asked. 
-K


----------



## SkyWarrior (Mar 21, 2013)

I just did the kids' first CD/T shots. I do them SQ.  I've learned that they just don't have a lot of space between their skin and bodies.  I use a 22 gauge syringe for my goats and dogs and slip it in sideways so it is almost parallel with the skin usually in the side near the shoulder.  It doesn't seem to cause pain and  if you squirt it in and rub, I've never seen a knot.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## elevan (Mar 21, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> JasonRain said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you give IM then it should be in a non expensive cut of meat...the hip area creates a nice large roast which could be lost if a knot forms in the muscle.  You won't see the knot until your butcher deals with the goat and then that knot will have to be cut out and reserved for testing by law.

If your goats are breeders and not intended for market then it wouldn't matter, but just be aware of what may happen if a knot forms in the muscle.


----------

