# Newbie - Jersey and Holstein bull calf questions



## valsetz (Feb 15, 2009)

I was given a Jersey - Holstein Bull calf yesterday and had some questions. His mother died after she gave birth to him and my brother in-law has been bottle feeding him since and also gives him about a third of a coffee can of Purina Calf Startena. My plan for this guy is to butcher him once he hits a 1000 pounds hopefully by next summer or so. I bought a bag of Calf milk replacer and plan on giving that to him until it is gone and also keep giving him the Startena. Is there anything special that I need to do when I get close to running out of the milk replacer? My brother in-law was saying something about dilluting it when I get near the end of bag. Is this true? Also should I be giving him alfalfa right now? Or is it too early for him to digest it? Also how about that Startena feed, does anyone have experience using it? Or should I use something else? I also bought some COB (Corn, Oats, Barley) with mollasses but I noticed that the protein is not near as high as the Startena, would this work? If someone could give me a breakdown of what to feed them at different ages in their life that would be great. Sorry about all the questions, any help would be appreciated. I am new at all of this, last year I got 38 chickens and butchered 16 of them and now have 22 egg layers and then decided to buy 2 lambs and let them eat the pasture so I did not have to mow it. Then sold them in fall and actually made a profit. That worked great but decided to make the big jump to cattle this year. Sorry about the rambling but am kind of excited.  Thanks for any help


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 16, 2009)

How old is the calf? 



> Is there anything special that I need to do when I get close to running out of the milk replacer? My brother in-law was saying something about dilluting it when I get near the end of bag.


As he gets eating the grain well you can start to decrease the milk replacer some. (I watch their manure, when eating grain and getting a full dose of milk replacer it tends to get looser) Then as you get toward the end thin it right down so he will make the transition to water easier.



> Also should I be giving him alfalfa right now? Or is it too early for him to digest it?


Again, it would be best to know how old he is but, I would recommend withholding the hay until he is on grain good. I usually have my calves on an 8 qt pail of grain a day before I give hay.



> Also how about that Startena feed, does anyone have experience using it? Or should I use something else? I also bought some COB (Corn, Oats, Barley) with mollasses but I noticed that the protein is not near as high as the Startena, would this work?


I can't help you with the startena (we do custom mixes) but, I would wait to feed the COB until he's older. It doesn't sound like it has mineral in it so you will need to make sure he will do free choice mineral. Plus, he needs the higher protein right now.


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (Feb 16, 2009)

It's wonderful to see new members here!

Congratulations on the calf!  I'm not an expert with Holsteins, but I have a neighbor who has one, and I know a thing or two.

Cows don't need much more than grass.  In fact, the beef is MUCH healthier for you if the cow never tasted grain.  It is ten times lower in saturated fat, and the omega 3's and 6's are balanced out.  I have tasted cows 100% grass fed and cows that have tasted grain.  The difference is BIG.  Cows don't need grain at all.  I know Holsteins that are lactating do, but bulls are just like every other bull as far as I'm concerned.

You need two acres of land to pasture a cow, one for grazing, one for hay.  More is better, but that's minimum.  I suggest rotational grazing instead of continually grazing a cow.  Your baby should be ready for pasture in just a week or so.  I suggest getting a good book on raising beef calves.  I suggest Storey's Guide for basic cattle raising.

That was a basic BASIC overview.  My suggestion is:  Do as much research as you possibly can.  I've never raised an orphan calf, so I won't be too much help, but I have bottle-fed a calf, and it is hard!  You're in for a lot of work!

And just so you know, beef usually tastes better when it's closer to two years.  If this is a spring calf, that would be around next year's October or November.  That's just my experience.

Good luck!  Send pictures so we can all see your wonderful baby!


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## wynedot55 (Feb 16, 2009)

the calf will need tobe on milk replacer for 2 or 3 months.so he can get a good start growing.youll prolly need o feed him 2 bags of replacer.an then wean him.but have him eating 5 to 6lbs of feed a day at weaning.an keep feeding him good so you can butcher him at 16 to 18 months old.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 16, 2009)

I believe, one bag of milk replacer should take the calf through to 2 months. Where we have calves all the time I've never put it to the test but, they say one bag should take a calf through.


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## wynedot55 (Feb 16, 2009)

kitty we always firgured 2 25lb baggs to weaning or 1 50lb bagg till weaning pre calf.i always liked bottling them till 3 months or 6lbs of feed a day.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 16, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> kitty we always firgured 2 25lb baggs to weaning or 1 50lb bagg till weaning pre calf.i always liked bottling them till 3 months or 6lbs of feed a day.


Milk replacer comes in 25 pound bags? We always have the 50 pound bag. Our calves are usually eating 6 pounds of grain at 2 months.


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## wynedot55 (Feb 16, 2009)

yes it used to come in 20 or 25lb baggs.i usually had them eating 6lbs or grain at 2 months.unless i had a stubborn calf.an ive had a few of those.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 16, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> yes it used to come in 20 or 25lb baggs.i usually had them eating 6lbs or grain at 2 months.unless i had a stubborn calf.an ive had a few of those.


There's always a few of those. Raise enough calves and you will find them!


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## valsetz (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for all of the info.
  Sorry I forgot to mention that he is 5 weeks old. I forgot to mention that the Startena is medicated, I noticed it after I bought so I am going to finish that and then switch him over to a feed that a local feed store has that is called LNC Creep and it has 14% protein. $11.30 for 50 pounds does not seem that bad. 
  The milk replacer that I bought is a 50 pound bag so I will just finish that off and call it good. 
  Farmer kitty you mentioned giving free choice mineral, do I need to do that now for him? Also is that a salt block with minerals added to it or is it something special?
Thanks to everyone for the info


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 16, 2009)

The medication in that feed is for preventing coccidiosis and is okay. 

He's to young to worry about free choice mineral yet. In a few months you can let him have it free choice. 

The salt block add when you start the free choice mineral. I would recommend the trace mineral one-it's the red one usually. They add trace minerals when they make the block. You should be able to find it where the white ones are sold.


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## valsetz (Feb 16, 2009)

Here are some pictures of him.





















What form is the free choice mineral come in? A powder or something?
Thanks


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## wynedot55 (Feb 16, 2009)

he looks like a limosine cross calf.he is to big tobe a jersey cross.an looks tobe 2 or 3wks old.loose sack minerals.


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## Imissmygirls (Feb 16, 2009)

No, he's a well grown Jersey/Holstein cross, I'd say.  Holstein mom, not Jersey. He looks good. He can start eating fresh grass if it's spring where you are. He should be nibbling hay too.  Jerseys are more mouthy and graze better than holsteins so offer hay or grass asap. Gives the rascals something to do. 
Get him off that bottle.  He should have water available at all times and at his age, he should be drinking some daily. By 7 weeks the milk should almost be a supplement, -- he should be eating all the other stuff like crazy. 
When you get down to the last week or so of replacer, start stretching it out by watering it down. He should be drinking and eating enough other stuff so that by the time you stop bringing him a  watered down milk bucket, he won't miss it.
If it were cold or he was more *Jersey* you could keep him on milk for 3 months. Won't hurt him, just not necessary.


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## valsetz (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks
  We still have a good 4 inches of snow here (Idaho) on the pasture grass.   It usually  does not start to melt until march so hopefully in another month and a half or so and we should have some pasture for him. I bought some alfalfa today so I will offer that to him along with his calf starter. I am giving him about 3 pounds a day or it worked out to be a coffee can full of the starter. He seems to love it, when I gave him the alfalfa he nibbled on it a little but did not seem to eat much. Thanks everyone for all the info, the more the better. One other question you all talk about getting away from the hand feeding and feeding him in the bucket. Do you mean one that has a nipple coming out tof the side of it? I have been reading old forums and everyone talks about how nice it is. So do you mix the milk up then pour it in the bucket and then teach him to suck on the nipple? Do you kind of hang it on the wall with the nipple sticking out for him to suck from it? Hopefully this question has not been asked a bunch and I did  not see the answer somewhere. Thanks everyone


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## Thewife (Feb 17, 2009)

That is a good looking calf! He looks like he was well cared for.

I THINK they are talking teaching the calf to drink it's milk from a bucket, the same way it would drink water!
I used to just get the calf to suck my fingers and put them in the milk! Some calves catch on quick, some can be a real pain in the ....!

Hopefully some body will be around to give "US" a better idea?

Oh yea, Welcome to the board! 
What part of Idaho?


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 17, 2009)

thewife has it. Drinking from a pail just like he would water. Some use their fingers and let them suck and then lead them into the milkreplacer. I use the bottle's nipple and ring. Give it to them and then gently direct them into the pail. Either way works just fine.

As for those pails with the nipples, I don't like them! You've fed him by bottle long enoug  to know how he can bunt. Think about trying that with one of those pails! 

I agree that he is a holstein/jersey cross and a nice looking calf.


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## jhm47 (Feb 17, 2009)

When we get the rare bottle calf, we feed them with bottles till weaning.  It doesn't hurt anything, except that it takes longer, and can be frustrating when they bunt the bottle.  I feel that it creates a close bond between the person who feeds  and the calf.  It seems to me that it's a question of time management and personal choice.

The calf appears to me to be a nice Jersey/Holstein cross.  I'm not real familiar with crosses like this, but I doubt that it will be at 1000 lbs by summer.  More like 500 lbs, especially if it is allowed to graze on grass as it's primary feed source.  We must remember that summer is really not that far off any longer.  

One word of advice---be sure to dehorn and neuter that calf.  Do it soon.  It is a "loner" calf, and it will imprint on humans.  This makes it certain that it will attempt to "play" with it's perceived herdmates (you), and while it is too small to hurt anyone right now, it will soon be much larger, and will be able to do considerable damage just with it's "play" fighting.  The neutering will make the calf grow a bit slower (about 2-5% slower), but will increase the value of the calf in the event that you chicken out and are unable to make steaks and burger out of him.  You definitely don't want a 18 month old dairy bull around.  

Best of luck with your new enterprise, and pay attention to the cattle people on this board.  They are good people, and know what they are doing.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 17, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> When we get the rare bottle calf, we feed them with bottles till weaning.  It doesn't hurt anything, except that it takes longer, and can be frustrating when they bunt the bottle.  I feel that it creates a close bond between the person who feeds  and the calf.  It seems to me that it's a question of time management and personal choice. I think that depends on the quality of time you spend with the calf. Some bottle feed and don't interact with the calf at all so there isn't much bonding that way. My calves are all switched to pail early and still bond but, I spend time rubbing them down and talking to them.
> 
> The calf appears to me to be a nice Jersey/Holstein cross.  I'm not real familiar with crosses like this, but I doubt that it will be at 1000 lbs by summer.  More like 500 lbs, especially if it is allowed to graze on grass as it's primary feed source.  We must remember that summer is really not that far off any longer.
> 
> ...


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## Thewife (Feb 17, 2009)

I haven't yet decided if I am going to put Smokey on the bucket. 
In the past if I had just one bottle baby, I kept it on the bottle. 

I like the bucket, because it's easier to mix the milk and it eaiser to feed the calf.
But, I like the bottle for ease of control! If I am moving the calf, have to catch it, or need it to hold still, the "bottle" is almost as good as a halter and a rope!
It is a god to them, they will follow it anywhere!


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 17, 2009)

thewife said:
			
		

> It is a god to them, they will follow it anywhere!


 Mine will follow the pail that way too. They are so funny!


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## Imissmygirls (Feb 17, 2009)

I agree... band that boy soon!  You do not want him intact and feisty! In fact, banding while he is still getting the extra milk energy may be a good thing.
  Find someone with a dehorner too.  Teach him right away that head butting is NOT play.
Has anyone ever found anything harder than a bull's front skull?


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 17, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever found anything harder than a bull's front skull?


NOPE!


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (Feb 17, 2009)

If you're going to castrate him, I'd recommend waiting until he's 7 or 8 months.  They gain much more weight that way.  Banding them young cuts down on weight a lot.  Discipline goes a long way to making a bull manageable, castrating merely helps.


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## wynedot55 (Feb 17, 2009)

if i was going to band them.id do it before they got to know they are a bull.meaning 2 or 3 months old.fed heavy they can gain alot as steers.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 17, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> if i was going to band them.id do it before they got to know they are a bull.meaning 2 or 3 months old.fed heavy they can gain alot as steers.


Agreed! I've seen it done at both stages and actually think the older they are the harder it is on them-at least with the dairy breeds and that is what this calf is.


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## valsetz (Feb 17, 2009)

the wife asked what part of Idaho, Payette it is near ontario oregon about an hour away from boise. 
  I do plan on getting him banded hopefully in the next week. A friend of mine has cattle and said he would band him for me.
  I will have to try the bucket feeding this weekend and see if I can break him into it. My wife feeds him in the morning now and then when I get home from work I feed him and try to give him some attention. I am looking into getting a halter for him to see if I can guide him around the pasture. 
  When I had talked about butchering him in the summer I meant next summer not this summer, so hopefully he will be about 1000 pounds then. 
  I know that some were talking about  how much calves were selling for and my brother in law was saying that in our area bull calves especially dairy breads are selling for less than 50 bucks, the market here is pretty bad for cattle right now I hear.


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## wynedot55 (Feb 18, 2009)

doesnt matter where you are dairy bulls dont bring much money.


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## donnaIL (Feb 18, 2009)

valsetz said:
			
		

> I Is there anything special that I need to do when I get close to running out of the milk replacer? My brother in-law was saying something about dilluting it when I get near the end of bag. Is this true?


I don't know if its necessary but I did with my bottle babies to gradually wean them off the milk--this way they ate more grain and really were not needing the milk. 



			
				valsetz said:
			
		

> Also should I be giving him alfalfa right now? Or is it too early for him to digest it?


I would put hay out right away.  I've not raise a dairy breed so I don't know if alfalfa is required, we usually feed grass hay.



			
				valsetz said:
			
		

> Also how about that Startena feed, does anyone have experience using it? Or should I use something else? I also bought some COB (Corn, Oats, Barley) with mollasses but I noticed that the protein is not near as high as the Startena, would this work?


I used the startena until they reach the age it says..he is gonna need all that protein to grow big, it your are feeding really good hay and he's okay with it you might get away with the other stuff...gradually switch him when you do



			
				valsetz said:
			
		

> decided to buy 2 lambs and let them eat the pasture so I did not have to mow it. Then sold them in fall and actually made a profit.


Good for you! A PROFIT!.  I hear that lambs fatten up good on grass..this guy is gonna take some grain -- probably a good bit of it to get him ready.  Do you have other animals to be a buddy to him?  They grow better if they are not alone.  



			
				valsetz said:
			
		

> Sorry about the rambling but am kind of excited.  Thanks for any help


You should be excited...cute calf!  Only other advise is band him and dehorn asap.


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## jhm47 (Feb 18, 2009)

I've been to a dairy stud bull center and watched them "collect" the bulls.  The personnel there were very careful around the Holstein bulls, but when they began to collect the Jerseys, they had extra people around and you could just see the heightened awareness and care that they took around them.  They seemed to think that the Jerseys are more dangerous than the Black and Whites.  I was very surprised at that.  Band that bull calf ASAP, and have him dehorned!!!


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## Thewife (Feb 18, 2009)

> the wife asked what part of Idaho, Payette it is near ontario oregon about an hour away from boise.


I don't think I have ever been that far south! I have relatives in Cour da lane(?) and Kellog, I always liked it there!


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