# Please help me



## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

8 week old oberhasli buck:
Yesterday perfectly fine
Gave 1cc of goat vac cdt
Gave a dab of wormer safe-guard
And his bottle of milk

Within an hour he was lethargic, head drooping, separating from the other goats.

Called breeder.... She said probably allergic reaction give Benadryl

Gave him 1/2 ts

Survives the night

Today.....still the same

I've given him
REFUSE bottle :-(
Pepto bismol 9:00 am
1/2 baby asprin
Pedialyte- force fed about 8-10 oz

Continued the pedialyte 4 times throughout the day

Seems his jaw is very tight he won't open and I have to pry it open
Back legs are getting a little weak (maybe from no food?)

Feed store recommended probiotic plus to the 5 mark.

Just forced him to drink milk 10 oz or so

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
We are totally in love with him.


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

Also his poop looks great
Fever at 104.9
Urine looks good
Eyelids pale

Gave him 3 baby aspirins at 4:00


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## terrilhb (May 29, 2013)

I do not know the answer. But am trying to get ahold of some people that might.


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## terrilhb (May 29, 2013)

Maybe this. 

I wonder if he is suffer from ataxia.

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He may need "fortified vitamin B complex."
What was the amount of dewormer you used?


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

Thank you soo much!!!!

Please respond to me in laymens terms I have no experience in this at. All!


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## terrilhb (May 29, 2013)

The liquids he need but not so much the pepto

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he does not have diarrhea

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so the probios should be enough

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too much will only add to the problem Let me ask them. They have had goats for 20 plus years. I will be right back.


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

Just a dab smaller than a dime
Safe-guard


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## crzybowhntr (May 29, 2013)

I was going to suggest vitamin b complex as well.


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

Do I give him more of the probios or just the one dose and sit and wait?


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

The probiotic has the bit b12- 500mcg/10cc


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## terrilhb (May 29, 2013)

Here is what they just posted to me. 

ataxia, incoordination, lethargy, depression and droopy lips and eyelids, especially when very young or debilitated animals are treated, usually lasting 12 to 48 hours.

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I purchase the Fortified Vitamin B Complex at TSC.

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Thiamine 100mg or greater is probably what he needs.
Please let me know how he does. My prayers and hugs are with you.


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## terrilhb (May 29, 2013)

I am not sure of the probios. I hope the info I got helps.


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

I will go get that I hope tractor supply is still open! We live in a smaller town and everything important closes early 

Is the vit b a pill or a shot?

Do u know what causes this?


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## terrilhb (May 29, 2013)

I am looking it up know. I do not know whether shot or pill they should know. If worse come to worse maybe a drug store like cvs or something. Will be right back with the info.


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## terrilhb (May 29, 2013)

I just sent you a message. Sorry it is long. I copied and pasted it.


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

Ok.... Just gave him two pills (crushed up mixed with water and Syringed)
Of 100 of thiamin

He is actually looking a little better I'm thinking from the probiotic


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

I truly thank all of u you have no idea how grateful I am. 
Hopefully years down the road I will be able to help some newbie lol


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## Bossofchaos (May 29, 2013)

Temp is at 104.4


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## alsea1 (May 29, 2013)

I'm not sure but I think your little goat is running a little high for temp.
I'm new with goats as well so am not much help.
I am thinking that for now it may not be good to continue with giving milk. Least until you know his tummy is working.
Hopefully the more exp. goat folks chime in pretty soon.


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## terrilhb (May 30, 2013)

How is your goat this morning? I wish I knew what else to do to help you. Maybe if you change the title of your thread. Someone else might know more.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

update?  Temp this morning?  

was that the first vaccination for CD&T, and I have to ask why only 1 cc?  most Vaccines are always 2 cc's?


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## terrilhb (May 30, 2013)

Glad you are here 20kidsonhill. I posted the info on another site last night to try and get help. I did not know the answer. I have been checking in all morning to see if there was any updates.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

terrilhb said:
			
		

> Glad you are here 20kidsonhill. I posted the info on another site last night to try and get help. I did not know the answer. I have been checking in all morning to see if there was any updates.


the high temp is concerning.  Regardless of the reason if that temp is accurate then the goat needs antibiotics.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

So happy to report he has made it through another night 
He's even eating a tiny bit of alfalfa
Still refusing his bottle

I was up every 6 hrs giving him 4 crushed vit b mixed with water

Keep alternating between milk and pedialyte. Force feeding

Still don't feel like we're in the clear but happy to see improvement!!!!

He's crying this morning and I'm not sure if its a sign of improvement or more pain.
His jaw has definitely loosened up
Back legs are very sensitive.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

The breeder told me to give him 1 cc
Also said she had given him his first one.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

Do I get him penicillin? I know tractor supply has that.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

Bossofchaos said:
			
		

> Do I get him penicillin? I know tractor supply has that.


i would  also see if your TSC has a small bottle of C&D antitoxin, (not the vaccine)  Some TSC do carry it.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

Ok so the c&d antitoxin and the penicillin?
They open at 9:00
How much and how often


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

I really want to say thank you again to you guys! I am so grateful. I know he wouldn't have made it without your advice.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

I am trying to determine his stance right now, you are saying his jaw is locked, but you are getting a lot of fluid in him.  10 ounces is a lot to force feed with out tubing. 
The locked jaw screams tetnus, but I am wondering in this case if the locked jaw is just him feeling bad or being stubborn.  But becareful some things are contagious. 

mix the milk 50/50 with the pedialyte or get a package of bounce back or Sav A caf or a powder electrolyte/protein powder at the store.  If he is not scouring(runny poop) too much electrolytes is not good for him. 

Add a vitamine E gel cap broke open to the mix,  
look into power punch or goat nurtridrench(some of it is pricey) just get a small bottle

or you can mix a raw egg with black strap mollasses/corn syrup(light)/ corn oil  1 part each and make an energy drench 
I am giving a 12 week old doe right now 1 raw egg and 1 ounce of the syrup mix, oh I do thin it with some 50% dextrose, but you could just thin mix with some water. 


give 3 penn G shots today,  1 1/2 cc.  then two shots tomorrow.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

Bossofchaos said:
			
		

> Ok so the c&d antitoxin and the penicillin?
> They open at 9:00
> How much and how often


C&D antitoxin is just the one time, they might not have it.  I think they sell a 5 cc bottle, give it all to him. You can't over dose it,  it is water soluble.

make sure you read my last post at the bottom of page 3.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

Ok....
For the energy drink where do I find all that stuff?
I'm still giving him the probios too

His jaw has been very tight... Not sure I would say locked.
I put his bottle (long nipple) as close to his throat as I can and it flows right down and I can see him swallowing.

You gave me 3 options for liquids do I do all 3?
Which one is the highest priority? (Benifits)

How do I space the pen g shots?


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

He is crying alot more today. Especially when he's laying down. Seems like its hurting his legs but when u touch them he doesn't cry?


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

He just pooped still looks good although a little more sticky? (Still balls but sticking together)
Also saw him pee about 30 mins ago


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## elevan (May 30, 2013)

In addition to what 20kids has said, up your probiotic dosage by 3x.   Definitely stop the pepto.

Also I think that most dosages of what you have given seem a little light.  You'll find dosages for what we give here at our farm in this article ...just scroll down until you find what you're looking for.  

You need to bring his temp down so... 
Asprin  325 mg per 10# of body weight orally
or
Ibuprofen(liquid)  2x childrens dose by weight orally (Do NOT use more than 48 hours)


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

I often alternate the drenches,  you may want to get a 30 cc feeding/drenching syringe in the feed store.  you can use all of them,  
I sometimes alternate,  

another drench I make is plane or flavored yogurt mixed with one egg and thin with a little water or 50% dextrose and drench with that. 

I was really giving you options to see what you have on your shelves in your kitchen.  

to me the bakign soda and Penn G are  the priorities since you have already been getting liquid into him, the other things are to alternate and just give him energy and fluid, since he is getting so much milk he is getting protein and fluid, that is good.  Really can do all of htem or try one of them,  was just giving you options.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

oh, you can give the penn G every 6 to 8 hours.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

What penicillin do I get?
Long acting
Short acting
250
100
50


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## elevan (May 30, 2013)

Bossofchaos said:
			
		

> What penicillin do I get?
> Long acting
> Short acting
> 250
> ...


Short 250


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

elevan said:
			
		

> Bossofchaos said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


x 2  on the short acting, the one only with Procain G in it.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

Update:
Gave 1.5 cc penicillin
Upped the probiotic by 3 times
Upped the asprin 
Fever down  103.0


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## terrilhb (May 30, 2013)

I am glad that its fever is going down. Please keep letting me know. I am praying for you both.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

I didn't have yogurt so I mixed a raw egg in with the bounce back seems to be helping.

No big changes he was having a hard time getting his front legs up but now he's getting up ok.
Still crying very lightly from time to time.

He drank about 10-12 oz of the bounce back with the egg in it.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

Doesn't seem to be getting worse. Hard to tell if he's getting any better. I haven't left his side all day and continued to check on him every two hours through the night.


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## babsbag (May 30, 2013)

If you are new to livestock you might not know that you have to pull back on the syringe plunger to make sure there is no blood in it before you give the Pen. It is very important that you do not inject Pen into a vein. It can kill them. 

Since he had a CDT at 4 and 8 weeks I would think that tetanus is not likely and he should be fairly safe from entero (over eating disease) as well. 

With the fever I would be worried about pnuemonia, it can be sneaky and silent so it is a good thing you are giving the antibiotics. I hope he gets better for you soon.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

I did NOT pull back and check for blood. I gave it just under the skin. Between his elbow and shoulder. He is small and its hard to find a spot. Especially since my first time giving shots was two days ago!

I sure hope I didn't do it wrong!


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## babsbag (May 30, 2013)

Bossofchaos said:
			
		

> I did NOT pull back and check for blood. I gave it just under the skin. Between his elbow and shoulder. He is small and its hard to find a spot. Especially since my first time giving shots was two days ago!
> 
> I sure hope I didn't do it wrong!


Don't panic. If he is ok you didn't do it wrong, just make sure you pull back the next time(s). If you hit a vein it can be sudden death. If you nick a vein they might have a siezure. Most people give Pen in the muscle, but I like to give it under the skin, same as you. I actually don't like to give it at all.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

Ok thank god.

Still no changes. He's just laying there I sure hope this ends soon. I hate seeing him like this! I wish I could feel what he's going through to understand better.

Can one of you honestly tell me what his chances are of surviving this?
Starting to wonder if I'm just prolonging his death. :-(

Also I can't remember where but last night I read of a lady who gave her goat the exact same wormer and her goat ended up with identical symptoms as mine. The post was from 2007!

This was an experienced goat owner questioning if it was from the wormer also! Strange?


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## babsbag (May 30, 2013)

Goats can be hard, sometimes I just throw the medicine cabinet at them and pray a lot. 

Safeguard is one of safest wormers and probably least effective for anything but tape worm. Our saying is "safe for the goat and safe for the worm" . I won't worm unless I KNOW they have worms, just my way of doing things. My goats are on dry lot so seldom do we have a worm problem. I also won't worm a kid when I give vaccines, also just my choice. I hate wormers as a whole as they are really just a controlled poison. 

No one can guarantee he will make it; wish we could and I am sure you know that. If he is running a temp he has an infection of some kind, the most common in kids is pnuemonia, especially with cool nights and hot days. I know that I treat with Tylan 200 or LA 200 for pnuemonia. But it is so hard to say what kind of infection he has. I am horrible at listening to lung sounds and lucky to have a friend that is very good at it. 

I think that the dose you used for the vaccine is too small. All the brands I have used are 2 cc per dose regardless of the size or age of the kid, my fear is that the underdosing hasn't given him much immunity. ( that being siad, I have 14 kids that need shots   )

Did you find the CD antitoxin? If so I would give it to him. If he does have a mild case of enterotoxemia then the CD antitioxin along with the Pen is his only chance. 

Sending you a PM.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> Goats can be hard, sometimes I just throw the medicine cabinet at them and pray a lot.
> 
> Safeguard is one of safest wormers and probably least effective for anything but tape worm. Our saying is "safe for the goat and safe for the worm" . I won't worm unless I KNOW they have worms, just my way of doing things. My goats are on dry lot so seldom do we have a worm problem. I also won't worm a kid when I give vaccines, also just my choice. I hate wormers as a whole as they are really just a controlled poison.
> 
> ...


that is a good point about the wormer, you could be doing all these supportive things and he could have a worm load, but he did have a fever.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

I don't know for sure but I think he's getting tired of fighting :-( I wish there was something I could do to make him more comfortable. 
So sad!


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## babsbag (May 30, 2013)

Do you have a vet that will do a fecal for you? It is done the same as for a cat or dog. Can you get some banamine. ? It would help with the pain he is in.

 If you saw my PM and think that that scenario is a possibility I would switch him to Tylan. I know I tried 2 different antibiotics and thiamine before we switched to Tylan and started the treatment for mycoplasma. My vet lost about 10 kids from her herd before she figured it out. She fed pooled milk to her kids and she never did identify the doe/ does  that are the carriers  

They are amazing animals and can hang on for awhile. Try giving him some leaves to nibble on. Blackberries if you have any are great. They love them.


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

What are the side effects of the penicillin?


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

I have a question... It seems goat polio is caused from poor feed, grain or unsanitary conditions.

He has only been on alfalfa hay and milk
No grain
And my goat pen (about an acre and a half) is spotless clean bedding and water changed daily.

What else would cause the polio?


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

He's feeling a little better  fever got high again I put him in the bath tub with Luke warm water just as I would my own kids and it has helped wonders!!!!  He's up walking (slowly) and just ate two handfuls of alfalfa. 

Hope were on the mend


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## bonbean01 (May 30, 2013)

I hope so too!!!!  Really hard when one is not doing well...little guy is lucky to have you caring for him...hang in there


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

Thank you so much for the compliment it really means alot right now when I feel so irresponsible for not knowing what to do.


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## bonbean01 (May 30, 2013)

We all feel that way sometimes...we do our best...we knock ourselves out trying...read everything we can on it...get advice from others...sometimes the outcome is good and sometimes not.  Part of the whole thing of owning animals.  You are trying so hard and I'm really hoping he makes it!!!!


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## Bossofchaos (May 30, 2013)

Happy to report he's taken a turn for the better!  
Sucking on his bottle  very lightly but making the effort!
His (star gaze) is fading!
He's becoming more vocal ( not happy)
Up moving around
Eating alfalfa! 
Looking for love and affection!!!

Lets pray it keeps going
2 hrs until his next vit b dose
Just finished his penicillin shot, probiotics and milk


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2013)

Bossofchaos said:
			
		

> What are the side effects of the penicillin?


as long as you don't hit a vein there shouldn't be a side effect.   It only treats bacterial infections, so if that isn't the problem it wont do any good, but with a fever it seems it would be bacterial. There are stronger antibiotics you can get from a vet.  It is important to treat for at least 5 days, because of building up drug resistance.  
Also giving probiotics for a few days after the antibiotics will help rebuild the good stuff in his stomach.


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## Bossofchaos (May 31, 2013)

So sad to say he didn't make it through the night :-(
I don't understand he took a huge turn for the better last night he was doing so good. I thought he was on the mend for sure!


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## 20kidsonhill (May 31, 2013)

Bossofchaos said:
			
		

> So sad to say he didn't make it through the night :-(
> I don't understand he took a huge turn for the better last night he was doing so good. I thought he was on the mend for sure!


Very sorry.


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## elevan (May 31, 2013)

So very sorry.  You did well in trying to bring him around.


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## Bossofchaos (May 31, 2013)

Sure wish I knew what it was. This is the hard part of farming I guess. I truly thank all of you for your advise and support. I was able to learn many things along the way and now have a decent stock of livestock meds on hand.

I think I might do more research on the natural wormers and no vaccinations boards!


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## terrilhb (May 31, 2013)

I am so sorry. How terrible. But you are such a fantastic person. You did all you could. Once again I am so sorry.


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## babsbag (May 31, 2013)

I am so sorry; I was hoping for good news this morning. He was a lucky boy to have someone that cared about him. I honestly believe that animals know when they are loved. Sometimes we never know what happened, I think that is one of the hardest parts of owning animals, especially goats; they seem very complicated at times.


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## bonbean01 (May 31, 2013)

So sorry!  You tried so hard, but guess it wasn't meant to be


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## Bossofchaos (May 31, 2013)

Thanks you guys. Today's been tough I had to just go to sleep. But I'm ready to just move forward and be grateful for the ones I have now.


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## alsea1 (May 31, 2013)

Thats all you can do.


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