# Diva's not feeling well - Update: She's on the mend!



## elevan (May 10, 2011)

I'm mainly just looking for support (ie: hugs) here...

Diva started scouring (liquid poo) yesterday afternoon.  I believe it's just new spring browse since she really just this week started eating it well.

Today she's "not herself", moping and ears drooping and still scouring.  She is still eating and drinking normally.  No fever.

I gave 15 ml of pedialyte. 5 g of Probios.

We're dealing with lice here also so even though I didn't see any on her I dosed her with .75 ml of Ivomec orally (so it'll take care of any lice issue and worms if they're in there too).

If she's still scouring tomorrow, I'll repeat the pedialyte and probios.  I'll also add Vit. B complex to give her an energy boost.  And take a fecal to the vet to check for cocci.

I just went through the scouring last week with her twin brother Kingston and didn't need to do anything after the pedialyte and probios.  So here's hoping she'll do as well.


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## DonnaBelle (May 10, 2011)

Hi, I think that is a great idea to take a sample to the vet.  

I do a lot myself for my goats, but if it gets too complicated I'm on the phone to Dr. Glover, he's the best I've found around here.

DonnaBelle


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## Ariel301 (May 10, 2011)

I've got a sick baby today too.  I hope they both feel better tomorrow!


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## BackFortyFarm (May 11, 2011)

Hope the goaties get better! Hugs to the mommies!


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

Well looks like I'm gonna be taking in a fecal for testing today  

Anyone have any ideas on how to get approx a tsp of poo from a kid who is squirting it everywhere?


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## happydodgefarm6113 (May 11, 2011)

Good luck getting your sample. I thought I had some yuck jobs today, like cleaning the chicken coop out. Hope your doe feels better.


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## Roll farms (May 11, 2011)

Tie a baggie to her tail???


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Tie a baggie to her tail???


I might have to do that and then have DH sit with her to make sure she doesn't take it off.  And notice I said have DH sit with her


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

I took a sample to the vet and they found that she is loaded with Cocci and also has some tapeworms  

I'll be treating Diva, her twin Kingston and Maggie for Cocci with Albon.
The entire herd (sans Lilly and Goldie who are preggers) will be getting Valbazen for tapeworms.  We will be using safeguard or panacur for the 2 that are preggers.

In the future we will be implementing a cocci prevention program due to the load being so heavy.  Roll Farms can you please remind me of what your protocol is for this...I think we'll adopt your program.

All of this rain and wet weather that we've had has directly led to this...nothing I could do and never had this type of issue before.  But I can do my best to treat what I've got and try to prevent re-occurrences.

They also suggested that I treat the horses and llama that share the field for tapeworms (it would be cost prohibitive to fecal everyone but the heavy load suggests that we use caution).

Does anyone know what a good tapeworm dewormer would be for llamas?


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## helmstead (May 11, 2011)

EVERYONE gets cocci eventually.

Valbazen or Quest are both safe for llamas to treat tapes - as long as they're not bred.


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## ksalvagno (May 11, 2011)

You can also use Safeguard for the llama. It is dosed at 1cc per 10 lbs. Like Helmstead said, also Valbazen can be used if not pregnant. Not sure on dosage though since I have always used Safeguard.


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> EVERYONE gets cocci eventually.
> 
> Valbazen or Quest are both safe for llamas to treat tapes - as long as they're not bred.


Yeah, I know everyone gets cocci eventually...it still sucks though.

Do you know what the dosage is for Valbazen in llamas? I'm pretty sure HE is not bred


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> You can also use Safeguard for the llama. It is dosed at 1cc per 10 lbs. Like Helmstead said, also Valbazen can be used if not pregnant. Not sure on dosage though since I have always used Safeguard.


Thanks! I'll use the Safeguard on him.  Do I do it 3 days in a row like the goats or is it a one time dose for llamas?


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## 20kidsonhill (May 11, 2011)

If I'm not mistaken Quest only has moxidectin in it, You have to buy Quest Plus which has moxidectin and praziquantel in it for tapeworms. 

Also Equimax horse paste has praziquantel in it, along with ivermectin.  This is a product I use every summer on our goats for tapeworms. For the goats I use it at 3x the label for horses. 

Valbazene and safegaurd need to be treated for 3 days in a row for tapeworms, but they do not remove the heads of the tapeworms only the segments.


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## ksalvagno (May 11, 2011)

Do it 3 days in a row. That Safeguard dose is for the liquid. I'm not sure what they are saying for dosage on the paste. I think you have to give most of the tube for a llama.

I did look on AlpacaNation and someone put a dose of 4.5cc per 100 lbs for Valbazen.


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> If I'm not mistaken Quest only has moxidectin in it, You have to buy Quest Plus which has moxidectin and praziquantel in it for tapeworms.
> 
> Also Equimax horse paste has praziquantel in it, along with ivermectin.  This is a product I use every summer on our goats for tapeworms. For the goats I use it at 3x the label for horses.
> 
> Valbazene and safegaurd need to be treated for 3 days in a row for tapeworms, but they do not remove the heads of the tapeworms only the segments.


Thanks for the info.  Is the Equimax safe for pregnant does?  And does it kill the head of the tapeworm too?


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Do it 3 days in a row. That Safeguard dose is for the liquid. I'm not sure what they are saying for dosage on the paste. I think you have to give most of the tube for a llama.
> 
> I did look on AlpacaNation and someone put a dose of 4.5cc per 100 lbs for Valbazen.


Thanks.  I have the liquid.  Oh boy, giving him about 30 cc 3 days in a row is gonna be one heck of a chore


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## 20kidsonhill (May 11, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, praziquantel removes the heads of the tapeworm, I have used it on pregnant does, but since there isn't much information on it for meat/milk animals, I don't want to tell you something I am not possitive about.   

We had a heck of a tapeworm problem on our farm, and upon researching treatments I came across Praziquental, it is labeled for use in livestock in other countries, just not USA.  I use a 90 day withdrawal date on all medictations I use off label. 

I could see a difference in my goats in just a week. One doe had a huge tapeworm hanging out off her and stuck to the side of her after I used it. MY husband was amazed and him and I have worked in agriculture all of our lives.

I know they say, tapeworms, don't kill livestock and they don't even think that it really hurts them all that much, but I disagree. I think it adds stress to their systems, causes them to gain weight slower and over all weakens them, perhaps making them more acceptable to other worm loads like Cocci.


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

Oh I'm a firm believer in the entire body / system working together and that if any one thing is out of whack or an "invader" is present then other things are gonna be affected.  Tapeworms being no exception.

Thanks for the info on Equimax, we got it to treat the horses at the vet's advice so I'll just keep it on hand in my goat cabinet too and give it a try next time.


We've dosed the Albon already and the Valbazen to everyone that was getting it.  I just got back with the safeguard so we'll dose that to the pregnant does and the llama here shortly.

Thank you everyone for your help and support.  Diva has had a rough couple of days with this heavy scouring...so we're crossing our fingers that she turns around quickly.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 11, 2011)

If I have a goat that is scouring really bad from cocci.

I treat with the corid or sulfa-dimeth twice the first day along with drenching with kaopectin and  spectam scour halt and giving a shot penn G.

Then the remainder of the treatment I just keep treating one time a day with the cocci medication and one time a day with Penn G. 

This treatment really seems to help get it under control quickly.


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## ksalvagno (May 11, 2011)

Bio Sponge paste also works. I keep a tube of it on hand. But I always use it after I know what the problem is and start treating the problem.


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## phoenixmama (May 11, 2011)

What a bummer.  

Unfortunately that's the only useful thing I have to say.


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## Roll farms (May 11, 2011)

PM sent....holler if you have any questions.  
Good luck w/ them.


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## elevan (May 11, 2011)

I've decided to stick with the vet recommendation of Albon and Valbazen for Diva.

I have also added Pedialyte, Red Cell, Vit B and Probios Gel.

Today Diva got:
10 ml Albon - she will get 5 ml a day for the next 5 days starting tomorrow for the Cocci.
.85 ml Valbazen for the tapeworms
2 ml Red Cell (as a complete mineral boost)
1.5 ml Vitamin B Complex
5 g Probios Gel
20 ml Pedialyte

Tomorrow she will get:
Albon
Probios Gel
Pedialyte

Thank you for the suggestion of PenG, but I do not want to use antibiotics unnecessarily and it was not advisable by my vet.

My plan for future kids is to start them on a dimethox prevention program.  I already feed medicated Noble Goat, but obviously it is not enough.

Thank you everyone for all your help and support.  I'll update you tomorrow on how Diva is doing.


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## elevan (May 12, 2011)

Today I've given Diva:
Albon 5 ml
Probios Gel 5 g
Pedialyte mixed with Arrest (gelling) 20 ml

She's feeling better today. Still scouring but out munching on browse.  The continued scouring is what made me add the gelling agent to the pedialyte.

She keeps going back to the barn or a shady spot to rest.  It's our first hot day today 85*F.  I know some of you southwesterners will think that's mild but for Ohio in May that's darn hot!

Everyone else got their follow up dose of prescribed medication and is doing well too.  I am seeing softer poo from everyone but due to the medications that seems to be normal.


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## jcooke1 (May 12, 2011)

What do some of you do as a cocci preventive maintenance for your herds?


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## elevan (May 12, 2011)

jcooke1 said:
			
		

> What do some of you do as a cocci preventive maintenance for your herds?


This was the recommendation to me from Roll Farms.  Thanks Roll!



			
				RollFarms said:
			
		

> I strongly recommend that kids be given some form of coccidiosis prevention, unless you can raise them in a sterile bubble.
> 
> We raise kids on Purina Noble Goat, which has a medication (Deccox) in it to help prevent the disease, BUT...Extremely young kids cannot eat enough of the feed to get the medicine up to therapeutic levels.
> 
> ...


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## elevan (May 12, 2011)

For some reason the Di-Methox 40% is on back order  

But you can use the 12.5%.  The question was posed to me what the dosage would be and I thought I'd share it here:

The 40% is listed to have Each ml contains 400 mg sulfadimethoxine

And the 12.5% is listed to have EACH FLUID OUNCE CONTAINS 3.75G SULFADIMETHOXINE  
(3.75 g = 3750 mg and 1 fl oz(US) = 29.5735 ml and 126.8 mg = 1 ml)

So if you're using the 12.5% Solution then you need:
3.15 ml to equal 1 ml of the 40%

When using the 12.5% Solution of Di-Methox the dosage would be:
3.15 ml per 5# of goat day 1
3.15 ml per 10# of goat days 2-5

(Had to break out my conversion calculators and my algebra to get that one done    )


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## elevan (May 13, 2011)

Diva's on the mend


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## Roll farms (May 14, 2011)




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## elevan (May 14, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your help and support!   You would never know that Diva had been feeling down.  Now she's bouncing around, chowing down on pasture and avoiding the new calves along with the rest of the herd.


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## Snowhunter (May 14, 2011)

El, she sounds like a doll!!! Ha! Glad she's on the mend and out enjoy goatie life!!!


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