# small breeds for meat?



## Ariel72 (Jul 26, 2011)

I have been reading conflicting information about using some of the smaller breeds for meat.  Bob Bennet in Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits has a lot of good things to say about Florida Whites.  He even talks about how tans and dutch have a good dress out percentage.  I like the idea of small fast growing breeds with adult breeding stock that would need less feed and smaller cages.  Some people seem to feel that the smaller breeds aren't worth it for meat.  I'm interested to hear your opinions about this...especially if you use the smaller breeds.


----------



## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 26, 2011)

First of all, I love that book. I think it's a treasure trove of ideas and tips that every rabbit raiser should have.
Most of the people who raise for meat around here use NZs, Satins, Sables, and Calis. Florida Whites are starting to pop up more and the people who raise them really like them. I'd find a breeder and talk to them about their rabbits. It's odd that the book said Tans have a good dress out percentage; they're sort of a racy breed, but then again percentages can be funny things. Lots of people have been crossing FWs into their meat lines to get smaller bones and more meat, as well, which speaks well of the breed.


----------



## Ms. Research (Jul 26, 2011)

crazyturkeydesigns said:
			
		

> First of all, I love that book. I think it's a treasure trove of ideas and tips that every rabbit raiser should have.
> Most of the people who raise for meat around here use NZs, Satins, Sables, and Calis. Florida Whites are starting to pop up more and the people who raise them really like them. I'd find a breeder and talk to them about their rabbits. It's odd that the book said Tans have a good dress out percentage; they're sort of a racy breed, but then again percentages can be funny things. Lots of people have been crossing FWs into their meat lines to get smaller bones and more meat, as well, which speaks well of the breed.


I never considered rabbits as "meat".   My Better Half picked this book up at TSC knowing that I was getting interested in rabbits.  As pets.  I'm glad he got it. I have to agree it's a treasure trove of ideas and has many tips on "meat" and showing.    My "Rabbit" Vet raised New Zealand in Alabama for meat.   He kind of rolled his eyes at my little guy because of him being so small.   But as a "meat" rabbit expert I guess that why he liked my Big Guy.  He said my Big Guy reminded him of his.   I guess it's not really odd?  But I truly wouldn't know.   I never thought of my bunny as "meat".


----------



## dewey (Jul 26, 2011)

Ariel72 said:
			
		

> I have been reading conflicting information about using some of the smaller breeds for meat.  Bob Bennet in Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits has a lot of good things to say about Florida Whites.  He even talks about how tans and dutch have a good dress out percentage.  I like the idea of small fast growing breeds with adult breeding stock that would need less feed and smaller cages.  Some people seem to feel that the smaller breeds aren't worth it for meat.  I'm interested to hear your opinions about this...especially if you use the smaller breeds.


Rabbit meat is rabbit meat & tastes good, no matter the breed.   I like the bigger ones that dress out with more meat when very young, but FW's would probably be my choice for a small meat breed, too.  Some people process the big breeds at very young ages (much less than 6 weeks old & at around 2lbs) or at certain group age like 8-10 weeks, whether they're at perfect weight or not, to keep the meat texture at its best...me too, the later, anyway...I just call it cornish rabbit if there's a few from the litters that are not at normal butcher weight.  The wonderful thing is you can do what works best for you.  If you don't mind handling large rabbits they have a great feed/meat ratio, but the smaller breeds have advantages.  I'll switch to small breeds when my dang body with a mind of its own decides the big ones are too heavy to handle.


----------



## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 26, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> I never considered rabbits as "meat".   My Better Half picked this book up at TSC knowing that I was getting interested in rabbits.  As pets.  I'm glad he got it. I have to agree it's a treasure trove of ideas and has many tips on "meat" and showing.    My "Rabbit" Vet raised New Zealand in Alabama for meat.   He kind of rolled his eyes at my little guy because of him being so small.   But as a "meat" rabbit expert I guess that why he liked my Big Guy.  He said my Big Guy reminded him of his.   I guess it's not really odd?  But I truly wouldn't know.   I never thought of my bunny as "meat".


I never really thought of rabbits as "meat" either, until we got into the American Sables. The woman we got our original trio from started raising them for conservation purposes and eventually saw their potential as a meat rabbit and went from there. Many of the meat rabbit breeders I know don't really even interact with their rabbits because they know where they're going to be used for. They take excellent care of them of course, but it's usually a barn of numbers and not names. It's sort of at an impersonal level I personally don't like, but then again, we do the same thing with our turkeys. It helps not to be too attached when you're on your way to the processor 
We don't raise exclusively for meat, but it's hard to sell an 8+ lb rabbit as a pet in such a rural area, so the majority of our culls are used for meat. It's easier for us to look at these rabbits and say "meat" instead of a cute name that's easy to get attached to.


----------



## dewey (Jul 26, 2011)

crazyturkeydesigns said:
			
		

> I never really thought of rabbits as "meat" either, until we got into the American Sables. The woman we got our original trio from started raising them for conservation purposes and eventually saw their potential as a meat rabbit and went from there. Many of the meat rabbit breeders I know don't really even interact with their rabbits because they know where they're going to be used for. They take excellent care of them of course, but it's usually a barn of numbers and not names. It's sort of at an impersonal level I personally don't like, but then again, we do the same thing with our turkeys. It helps not to be too attached when you're on your way to the processor
> We don't raise exclusively for meat, but it's hard to sell an 8+ lb rabbit as a pet in such a rural area, so the majority of our culls are used for meat. It's easier for us to look at these rabbits and say "meat" instead of a cute name that's easy to get attached to.


I once befriended one of my pigs, quite by accident, and after he was butchered I cooked him for the rest of the family to eat, but I couldn't eat any of the meat.  Once kept 1 of my turkeys for the same reason...he became a family pet and no way were we butchering him.  It happens, lol.  I handle my meat rabbit litters only as needed but give each attention knowing they are bound for the table for several families...still, occasionally, there's some that stand out to me and hopefully they are also up to par for breeding stock, if not, to the freezer they go.  All my rabbits get talked to and touched every day and are friendly.  They have a good life and treated with respect and kindness and tender care.  I'm thankful for what they provide for us.


----------



## crazyturkeydesigns (Jul 26, 2011)

dewey said:
			
		

> I once befriended one of my pigs, quite by accident, and after he was butchered I cooked him for the rest of the family to eat, but I couldn't eat any of the meat.  Once kept 1 of my turkeys for the same reason...he became a family pet and no way were we butchering him.  It happens, lol.  I handle my meat rabbit litters only as needed but give each attention knowing they are bound for the table for several families...still, occasionally, there's some that stand out to me and hopefully they are also up to par for breeding stock, if not, to the freezer they go.  All my rabbits get talked to and touched every day and are friendly.  They have a good life and treated with respect and kindness and tender care.  I'm thankful for what they provide for us.


It's so hard not to get attached to an animal, even if you know it's purpose. My very first market turkey project didn't get a name; I hated the project and we had so many things go wrong. The second one, however, was named Suka and oh how I looooved that bird. I cried and cried and cried after the sale because I felt like a horrible child. I was sending my baby birdy to his death!  But it was, in the end, a lesson learned. You care for the animals to the best of your ability and give them the life 'o riley, but you do so while remembering that the animal will end up on your plate.


----------



## Ms. Research (Jul 26, 2011)

dewey said:
			
		

> crazyturkeydesigns said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To be perfectly honest, I didn't think rabbits were meat because they, yes, are very sweet, cute, furry animals.  Suburban chick here.  Do I think they could be consider meat now?  Yes I do.  As someone who hit the 50 Milestone, I see things differently now and did find the book my better half gave me very interesting.  I did cringe a little, but I did go back and read it through entirely.   And after hearing both sides of the issue about how to deal with raising meat rabbits, I kind of lean towards Dewey's way of it, but totally understand crazyturkeydesign's way of dealing with what it really boils down to.   End of life.    In the real world, rabbits are on the bottom of the food chain.  They are sustenance for someone, man or reptile.   And I do agree, they should have a good life and be treated with respect and kindness.  And then set on a path to be either sustenance, breeding or show.   You just got to find what works best for you.


----------



## dewey (Jul 27, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> dewey said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it's not unusual for a lot of folks to view rabbits or other domestic or game animals that same way, especially when never having been exposed to raising their own food.  People rarely will view what they consider "pet" animals to be table animals.  It's understandable.   As someone that is also soon to hit the 50 year mark and has raised farm animals of one type or another since a small child (and family for generations before that), and has taken, and field dressed/butchered many deer and other large game over a lifetime, it's never gotten easier easier for me.  Never will.  My respect to anyone that newly discovers and utilizes or considers their dual purposes.


----------



## Ariel72 (Jul 27, 2011)

Thanks for the replies.  The first time I read Bob Bennet's book I was looking into pet rabbits.  The book bothered me at that time because it was more geared toward meat...I didn't even finish it.  I definitely understand anyone who feels that way about pet rabbits.  I think this is an interesting discussion since everyone is being respectful about it.  The transition from me being a pet rabbit owner to a meat rabbit breeder has been a long one.  Its not even complete since my rabbits aren't old enough to breed yet.  I treat them with respect and take very good care of them.  I even think of my adults a bit like pets, but I love them for what I feel they will do for my family as far as self-sufficiency and security.  My dream for them is over several generations to produce rabbits that are less and less dependent on pellets and more dependent on what I can grow and gather.  I don't want to be dependent on a grocery store or on a feed store.  I feed my rabbits all the healthy greens they can eat three times a day (got them used to it very gradually starting when they were 5 weeks old), but they still want pellets.  As long as the rabbits feel they need pellets I'll provide them.

The thing is, I'm an animal lover but not a vegetarian.  I hate the way animals are raised and treated on factory farms.  It just flies in the face of everything I believe about animal management.  Last year I experimented with raising chickens for meat.  I didn't like the cornish crosses so got a bunch of roosters from old fashioned dual-purpose breeds.  It took about 6 or 7 months for them to look ready to butcher.  Having that many roosters running around is very annoying.  My laying hens didn't think much of them either.  Of course, by the time I butchered them they were pretty tough and had a "different" taste to them.  Maybe because of testosterone?  Anyway, I found that "back in the day" people didn't eat chicken the way they do now.  Chickens were for laying eggs.  Only the young roosters and older hens were usually eaten.  I still wanted to raise my own meat and chickens weren't fitting in (I won't butcher my layers for 2 or 3 years).  

I just kept coming back over and over to the meat rabbit option when I compared them to the cornish cross meat chickens.  I compared cornish cross broilers with rabbits because they have similar grow out times and fill the same niche, in my mind.  With rabbits you don't have to keep buying young stock from an outside source the way you do with broiler chickens.  Once you have your breeders you just keep producing your own fryers and replacement stock.  Rabbits don't compete as much with humans for food since they eat very little grain and they can be supplemented with stuff from the yard.  Even if I free-ranged cornish cross broilers on fresh grass everyday, they would still need quite a bit of high octane, expensive feed.  Rabbits produce very useful and safe manure for gardens.  They are much cleaner to work with than the broilers and they are the easiest of all the livestock to butcher.  There is the option of selling some of them as pets, as well as selling breeding stock, if you have breeds that are in demand. 

 Animals is general are easier to raise than a garden (which I also do) and you can still eat them fresh in the winter if you need to unlike plants.  Rabbits store themselves "on the hoof" in family sized portions and don't have to take up freezer space if you don't have much freezer space.  They can be entirely gone after one meal, unlike a steer or a pig.  On top of those things, I just enjoy raising rabbits.  All that made it worthwhile for me to make the effort to look past the cuteness factor and see the rabbit's potential as a meat animal.  My animals live good, comfortable lives.  I don't get cuddly with the ones destined for butchering at 3 months but they don't need that from me anyway.  When the time comes, they are quickly and humanely dispatched, never even knowing what happened.    

I think all rabbits of all ages are beautiful animals that can make great pets.  I've decided we don't eat animals because they are ugly, or because we hate them.  We eat them because that was certain animals' purpose for being brought to this earth.  I've always loved the American Indian concept of honoring and thanking the animal whose life was taken so the family can eat.  If you look at it that way even the butchering process becomes a very reverent ,if messy, thing.  Our respect for the animals increases but  respect for ourselves also becomes greater.  Is it easy to take that life?  No, and maybe its not supposed to be.

I realize this is a book length post, but I thought someone might be interested to hear about the journey that has brought me to this point so far.  Others could be on a similar path.


----------



## Ms. Research (Jul 27, 2011)

Ariel72 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replies.  The first time I read Bob Bennet's book I was looking into pet rabbits.  The book bothered me at that time because it was more geared toward meat...I didn't even finish it.  I definitely understand anyone who feels that way about pet rabbits.  I think this is an interesting discussion since everyone is being respectful about it.  The transition from me being a pet rabbit owner to a meat rabbit breeder has been a long one.  Its not even complete since my rabbits aren't old enough to breed yet.  I treat them with respect and take very good care of them.  I even think of my adults a bit like pets, but I love them for what I feel they will do for my family as far as self-sufficiency and security.  My dream for them is over several generations to produce rabbits that are less and less dependent on pellets and more dependent on what I can grow and gather.  I don't want to be dependent on a grocery store or on a feed store.  I feed my rabbits all the healthy greens they can eat three times a day (got them used to it very gradually starting when they were 5 weeks old), but they still want pellets.  As long as the rabbits feel they need pellets I'll provide them.
> 
> The thing is, I'm an animal lover but not a vegetarian.  I hate the way animals are raised and treated on factory farms.  It just flies in the face of everything I believe about animal management.  Last year I experimented with raising chickens for meat.  I didn't like the cornish crosses so got a bunch of roosters from old fashioned dual-purpose breeds.  It took about 6 or 7 months for them to look ready to butcher.  Having that many roosters running around is very annoying.  My laying hens didn't think much of them either.  Of course, by the time I butchered them they were pretty tough and had a "different" taste to them.  Maybe because of testosterone?  Anyway, I found that "back in the day" people didn't eat chicken the way they do now.  Chickens were for laying eggs.  Only the young roosters and older hens were usually eaten.  I still wanted to raise my own meat and chickens weren't fitting in (I won't butcher my layers for 2 or 3 years).
> 
> ...


Thanks for taking the time.  Appreciate it and got many insightful ideas from your "long winded" (lol) post.    I'm really interested in the "three meal a day" method that you came up with.  What greens do you feed them?  I've introduced wheat grass, parsley, carrot tops with just a little carrot and am growing basil hydroponically.  Wheat grass is done hydroponically.  But the parsley and carrots come from our garden.  We are experimenting with introducing "rabbit" food to our garden.  It's always been hot peppers and tomatoes.  

My breeder stated 3 months for greens, which is her method, which I respected, and was the best choice for my buns.  But I really want to utilize my garden and my hydroponics system.  Since getting the full osmosis system in our home, the plant life flourishes with clean water.  And I know growing greens for my rabbits in my garden, would be my best choice.  I know what's in it.  Plus no fertilizers.  I know pellets are important and I don't think I would phase them out completely, but I like what you have to say and I feel the same way about the greens and working to rely on myself to provide.  


Thanks.


----------



## Ariel72 (Jul 27, 2011)

We ran out of pellets a couple of days ago so have just been doing the greens til friday,  plus a little oatmeal.  I can tell they are feeling a bit deprived.  I've been sprinkling a little salt on their lunch time greens to try to make up a little of what they're not getting in pellets.  I will be getting them the little mineral salt wheels.  I have been giving them grass hay, but think I'll buy a couple of bales of alfalfa for them instead.  Especially since I'm trying to use less pellets.  As far as greens go, I try to feed 1/2- 2/3 the amount in either fresh alfalfa or clover (red or white).  

In addition I feed a mixture of wild carrot tops, lambs quarters, narrow leaf plantain, broad leaf plantain, dandelion greens, some grass that gets mixed in, and that's pretty much as far as I know about eatable wild greens.  I don't feed anything unless I'm sure I know what it is.  I'm going for variety, keeping in mind that not even humans have every single nutrient in every single meal.  It's balance of the over all diet that is the goal.  That being said, this generation of rabbits is bred to need pellets.  I'm not sure we can replace them entirely...yet.  I know there are healthy looking rabbits being raised without pellets (in Brazil).  So it can be done. 

My long term goal is to breed the pellets out as much as I can.  Getting rid of them entirely is what I really want to do.  I plan to do that by continuing to do what I already mentioned above and selecting the ones for breeding that do the best with that and so on.  Each generation using fewer and fewer pellets.  This is my plan and i will probably have to tweek it as I go.  I'm just getting started so still have a lot to learn.  I have an old hay field that still has quite a bit of alfalfa in it.  I just have to go cut it so that helps alot.  I found out about edible wild greens by studying wild greens edible for people.  I'm also going to try purslane but haven't yet.  Everything else I mentioned they just love.  I started them at 5 weeks by just giving them one small sprig a day and only introducing new things one at a time.  I've never had any problems or diarrhea with them, but you need to do what you think is best with your stock.  With my pet rabbits I followed conventional wisdom, but this time I'm experimenting a bit.  They seem healthy and happy.  They real proof will be breeding ability and health of kits. 

I also want to grow things in the garden for rabbits.  I'd like to plant kale, fodder beets, Jerusalem artichoke (a perennial sunflower), comfrey (bocking 4), sunflowers for seeds and stalks, alfalfa, and red clover so everything is together in one place.  Ooop!  Long winded again lol...guess I better go feed the rabbits  before I think of something else to say.


----------



## Ms. Research (Jul 27, 2011)

Ariel72 said:
			
		

> We ran out of pellets a couple of days ago so have just been doing the greens til friday,  plus a little oatmeal.  I can tell they are feeling a bit deprived.  I've been sprinkling a little salt on their lunch time greens to try to make up a little of what they're not getting in pellets.  I will be getting them the little mineral salt wheels.  I have been giving them grass hay, but think I'll buy a couple of bales of alfalfa for them instead.  Especially since I'm trying to use less pellets.  As far as greens go, I try to feed 1/2- 2/3 the amount in either fresh alfalfa or clover (red or white).
> 
> In addition I feed a mixture of wild carrot tops, lambs quarters, narrow leaf plantain, broad leaf plantain, dandelion greens, some grass that gets mixed in, and that's pretty much as far as I know about eatable wild greens.  I don't feed anything unless I'm sure I know what it is.  I'm going for variety, keeping in mind that not even humans have every single nutrient in every single meal.  It's balance of the over all diet that is the goal.  That being said, this generation of rabbits is bred to need pellets.  I'm not sure we can replace them entirely...yet.  I know there are healthy looking rabbits being raised without pellets (in Brazil).  So it can be done.
> 
> ...


Thanks AGAIN for the long winded (lol) reply.  I'm of the same thinking and I appreciate you sharing your plan.  It helps round off my plans to raise healthy rabbits as well.


----------



## rabbitgeek (Jul 27, 2011)

We used to raise Dutch and found the things Mr Bennett said were true.

Dutch have a great dressout percentage, over 50% at 8-10 weeks. The short cobby
body type are like little meat bricks.

The Dutch does are great mothers. When ever we bred a doe of a different breed,
we tried to breed a Dutch doe as well so the Dutch could be a foster mom if
needed. The Dutch does we had would foster anything up to including New
Zealands.

If you breed for markings and body type, you can have some good sales on the
side for show stock. Mismarks can go to the pet trade or eaten.

Dutch are a good multi purpose rabbit.

They do well in 24 x 24 cages. Does with litters should get 24x30 or 24x36 cages
to have room for all those kits.

Have a good day!
Franco Rios


----------



## hoodat (Jul 28, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> crazyturkeydesigns said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is room for all of us in the rabbit world. It's certainly true that rabbits make great pets but it's also true they make great meat. I don't allow myself to get attached to my growout herd although I treat them well and speak to them when I'm around them and they certainly aren't afraid of me. My breeders, on the other hand, I do make pets out of. They greet me at the door of their pen and are always ready for a treat or romp in the yard. The drawback of that is the you almost certainly have to support them in their "retirement". I wouldn't have the heart to butcher a pet just because it is no longer producing.


----------



## Ariel72 (Jul 28, 2011)

rabbitgeek said:
			
		

> We used to raise Dutch and found the things Mr Bennett said were true.
> 
> Dutch have a great dressout percentage, over 50% at 8-10 weeks. The short cobby
> body type are like little meat bricks.
> ...


What great info!  What is the average number of kits a Dutch could be expected to have?


----------



## Citylife (Aug 8, 2011)

Ariel
After reading storeys guide to rabbits Bob Bennets book I decided to raise the florida white breed. A little over a year ago I purchased  a high quality trio from Bergene rabbitry, I got lucky having a great breeder only 40mins away. I'm totally sold on the breed. My adults only weigh 4 1/2 pounds at the most and eat 1/2 cup of feed per day where as a california or new zealand weighs in at twice as much requiring twice the feed. My babies typically take 2 weeks longer to reach butcher size than a new zealand but they have just as much meat if not more because of the high meat to bone ratio. The size difference in the adults more than makes of for the added time to butcher. Remember you do have to handle them from time to time and it is much easier to deal with, house and feed a 4 1/2 pound rabbit than a 10-11 pound rabbit. Although there has been a learning curve I'm seeing that my rabbits are very prolific and with the four does and two males I have I can more than supplement a family of fours diet, with half the feed cost of an operation using larger breeds. I hope this has helped you.


----------



## MyKidLuvsGreenEgz (Aug 8, 2011)

I read this thread with interest. Now that we have a lab puppy who's growing in leaps and bounds into a full-fledged dog, I'm trying to figure out how to feed him on what we have at home. We have goats and chickens. We don't plan to butcher the goats (milk) and I'm not going to butcher more than one chicken a week so he'll get part of one that I cook for the family. So ... came to the idea of rabbits.

Want to feed him chicken once a week, rabbit twice a week, and eggs 4 times a week. Thus, I'll need butcher-able rabbits regularly.

I don't know much about rabbits. We had an angora, but since I'm the only one in this family who actually does anything, I couldn't keep up with her combing, she matted, so she went back to where we got her. No more angora rabbits. Of course, that wouldn't be practical for a meat rabbit.

Obviously I need a rabbit that (1) produces lots of kits and quickly (2) good meat to bone to feed ratio (3) easy to care for (4) gentle (5) might possibly be good barter material for meat and/or pelt and (6) cheap because I'm out of money. Liked what I read on here about the dutch. And the Florida. Which kind would work best for what I want?

Help?!?!

We have lots of outside chickens but are working to moving the 14-16 bantams (eggers and silkies) into two pens in the garage where they can access an outdoor run on alternating days. The run is on the north side of our garage so it'll get lots of snow and not a huge amount of sun in the winter. However, snow doesn't linger around here. LOTS of heavy winds. Will be nicely shaded in the summer. It'll be about 20x20 and will be surrounded by blackberry (thorny) brambles and climbing vines.  Wondering if we can make an outdoor rabbit run in with those chickens. Along the perimeter? For year-round? Will I need a bottom or can the droppings and urine just fall to the ground?

Thanks.


----------



## Ms. Research (Aug 9, 2011)

MyKidLuvsGreenEgz said:
			
		

> I read this thread with interest. Now that we have a lab puppy who's growing in leaps and bounds into a full-fledged dog, I'm trying to figure out how to feed him on what we have at home. We have goats and chickens. We don't plan to butcher the goats (milk) and I'm not going to butcher more than one chicken a week so he'll get part of one that I cook for the family. So ... came to the idea of rabbits.
> 
> Want to feed him chicken once a week, rabbit twice a week, and eggs 4 times a week. Thus, I'll need butcher-able rabbits regularly.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a solid plan, but I stress make sure those bunnies have a market to go to.  In other words, your dog can't eat that many bunnies, so you need to do your research.  Either Dutch, which you can sell as pets or try for the standard pattern and sell for show.  The ones that don't have the standard pattern you can feed to your dog or yourself or sell as meat rabbits.  They are small and you don't need a whole of room to support them.  

Regarding the outside run, I see no problem.  There is a thread regarding how people set up their rabbit hutches that you can get ideas from.  Hoodat, who sells meat rabbits, has a really great setup regarding disposal of poop and urine.  You don't want it falling under the cage but there is a shoot that Hoodat has that helps with that disposal.  

Lots of information out there.  Lots of people here to help.  Just do the research first before you start.  I know about the money situation.  Everyone is in that boat, except for special people.  You can do this on a shoestring budget.  

Good Luck.  Hope this helps.


----------



## MyKidLuvsGreenEgz (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks, M.R. That made me feel better, like I'm on the right track.

As far as the dog not being able to eat that many rabbits, as soon as he's trained, my son has requested to get him "a wife" !! (This puppy is to be a service dog for my autistic/epileptic son). Plus, we'll feed some to the chickens as protein and might even occasionally eat some ourselves. But yes, we'll also sell them as a source of meat and pets.

How many (pairs?) would I need to have a closed herd to prevent inbreeding?


----------



## Lorelai (Aug 9, 2011)

MyKidLuvsGreenEgz said:
			
		

> Thanks, M.R. That made me feel better, like I'm on the right track.
> 
> As far as the dog not being able to eat that many rabbits, as soon as he's trained, my son has requested to get him "a wife" !! (This puppy is to be a service dog for my autistic/epileptic son). Plus, we'll feed some to the chickens as protein and might even occasionally eat some ourselves. But yes, we'll also sell them as a source of meat and pets.
> 
> How many (pairs?) would I need to have a closed herd to prevent inbreeding?


If you're not planning on incorporating a large portion of the rabbit meat into your own diet, I might suggest beginning with a breeding trio (one buck and two does). For your purposes, a smaller breed could be beneficial, like Florida Whites. I've never seen any for sale in my area, but I'm fascinated with the idea of them. You could rotate the does and have one litter per month, or something like that, which may be adequate to suit your current needs (we no longer have litters at the same time - we did it once, and two litters of 12 was wayyy over the top, so never again ). And, if you decide you like breeding rabbits or a trio isn't enough to sustain your needs, you could always expand your herd. On the flip side, if you really end up hating it for some reason, a breeding trio of solid, proven stock could easily be sold for a good price. If you're not interested in trying to access the show rabbit market, you might also consider mixed breed rabbits. Maybe try two breeds and see how they get on together. I know we like our mixed breed does the best - they are less twitchy and produce bigger litters. Plus, you might be able to walk the line between a 5 lb Florida White buck and a 10 lb Californian doe (pretty sure that's feasible... all of our stock are around the same size, though our mixed breed New Zealand Black/ Flemish Giant doe easily has 5 lbs on our purebred Californian buck, and they get the job done. 

This is just my two cents. There is a lot of trial and error with raising rabbits, and what works for one breeder might not work the same for you. It's all about finding your own groove and going with it.


----------



## MyKidLuvsGreenEgz (Aug 9, 2011)

I have no interest in doing shows. Just want to provide meat for my dog, chickens and possibly my family, while selling extras.  So mixing a florida white and a dutch or california might work. And doing one litter a month would work too.

PMd hoodat. Hope to get a response soon. Will want to start construction on hutches by Fall so we can start finding bunnies.


----------



## dewey (Aug 9, 2011)

MyKidLuvsGreenEgz said:
			
		

> How many (pairs?) would I need to have a closed herd to prevent inbreeding?


Rabbits are unlike many other animals in that they can be very closely bred.  Each good meat doe will produce around 100+ pounds of _dressed_ meat in the freezer for human consumption (and about double that amount if raising them for animal food, since almost nothing is lost).


----------



## MyKidLuvsGreenEgz (Aug 9, 2011)

So 3 or 4 does and 2 bucks should be able to keep us in rabbit meat for many many years without adding new blood?


----------



## Ms. Research (Aug 9, 2011)

MyKidLuvsGreenEgz said:
			
		

> So 3 or 4 does and 2 bucks should be able to keep us in rabbit meat for many many years without adding new blood?


I believe it would.   Just keep a journal.  Document which buck you breed to which doe.   Also the kits you decide to keep after your main group retires.  You need to know their bloodlines too.   When I start out I'm going to start with one doe at first.   See how it goes.  I'm more moving towards trying to meet standards and need to see what standards I want to pursue.  I've read that a breeder needs to focus on one standard and stick with it.  The standard could be color, hips, crown.  But stick with that our you would get overwhelmed.  You on the other hand would need to look at what type of meat this rabbit would produce.  Also is your son going to be involved with the rabbits as well?  I think animals do amazing work with autistic children.  I've seen what they can do for children with cancer.  If your son will be involved in some way, I would look for rabbits, the breed you are going to stick with, that are docile and have a mild temperment.  To start out with, get does that are proven (already had kits) because you will know their personality better when they reach maturity.  Kits at 12 week or even at 6 months (breeding age) will still be developing their permanent personalities.  A milder doe and even a buck would be better for your son interaction.  

Please post how it goes.  And definitely let your son get his dog a wife.     Animals bring out the Best of all of us.


----------



## MyKidLuvsGreenEgz (Aug 10, 2011)

MR: Good idea. Will start out with proven does and bucks. Need sweet personalities ... will be breeding for niceness and meat to bone to feed ratio. Will also track who breeds with whom. Hubby told me last night he's onboard with Hoodat's waste disposal chute system AND he's willing to do the butchering. Whew! That's good because since I'll be doing most of the work and daily handling, I needed it as easy as possible plus really don't want to do the yucky work.

Looks like half of our garage will be dedicated to bantam chickens and rabbits! We'll need a fan in the summer but it won't get too much less than freezing during the winter.

And yep, probably in a year, will get a "wife" for Krypto!


----------



## hoodat (Aug 10, 2011)

I sound like a broken record but I always liked full size Rex for a medium sized breed. Very easy to handle and I really think they are meatier than Floridas, especially on the back and loin. They also tend to be a very healthy breed. Be careful buying them though, especialy if they are young. A lot of mini Rex get sold for full size Rex.


----------



## MyKidLuvsGreenEgz (Aug 10, 2011)

How big should non-mini adult rex does and bucks measure? I'm bad at guessing weights so could you give it to me in inches, and YES I'll take a ruler with me!


----------



## Ms. Research (Aug 10, 2011)

MyKidLuvsGreenEgz said:
			
		

> How big should non-mini adult rex does and bucks measure? I'm bad at guessing weights so could you give it to me in inches, and YES I'll take a ruler with me!


I don't know how long they are but the weight difference for adults are over 5 llbs.  

Mini goes around 4 lbs
Rex goes around 9 lbs.  

That's a big weight difference from the two sets.  And I think you would be able to tell the difference if they were adults.   Hoodat is correct to look out when you buy.  Check out different breeders if you can.  Take a look at the parents if the bunnies are younger.  But I would still go with proven doe and buck.   You won't have to worry about getting kits that are mini's.    You will know what you start with.  

And Hoodat, you are not a broken record.   Thanks for all your advise.   If I was going into "meat", I'd be taking your advise on Rexes.  I'm also eyeing your bunny hutch set up.   If you raise Rexes to maturity, you can benefit from both meat and pelt.   I'm still pulled toward showing and am looking at the mini's.


----------



## elieugene6 (Aug 11, 2011)

I am so glad I found this post.  I have a pet dutch rabbit and have been looking around lately to find a pair or trio of meat rabbits to start having my own rabbit meat.  I would much rather get a mate for her and just breed her than to add additional breeds.  I didn't realize that dutch could be dual purpose.  She has had a litter in the past.  It was accidental she was bred by a lionhead.  Both kits are black and white with dutch markings and I have been having no luck selling them.  I didn't become attached due to the selling thing.  Is it possible that they would be big enough for the table?  My fiance would be more than happy to dispatch them.  I haven't ever processed a rabbit but he is fairly certain he could.  I do know that I love rabbit meat, and have since I was a kid.  I just refused to eat my pets as a kid.  

My doe was a 4h rabbit prior to my getting her so her markings are acceptable.  I would also love to put my lab back on her raw food diet that I am unable to afford at the moment and that would be perfect.  How much meat would a trio of rabbits with the does mated alternately produce in a month?  Obviously that would be after the amount of time taken to start up.  My dog was on 4 1/2lbs meat and 1lb liver each week with a grain meal in the morning.  I tried feeding her the diet on chicken which I have more than enough of but she doesn't digest chicken well and stinks horribly everytime she eats it.


----------



## Ms. Research (Aug 11, 2011)

elieugene6 said:
			
		

> I am so glad I found this post.  I have a pet dutch rabbit and have been looking around lately to find a pair or trio of meat rabbits to start having my own rabbit meat.  I would much rather get a mate for her and just breed her than to add additional breeds.  I didn't realize that dutch could be dual purpose.  She has had a litter in the past.  It was accidental she was bred by a lionhead.  Both kits are black and white with dutch markings and I have been having no luck selling them.  I didn't become attached due to the selling thing.  Is it possible that they would be big enough for the table?  My fiance would be more than happy to dispatch them.  I haven't ever processed a rabbit but he is fairly certain he could.  I do know that I love rabbit meat, and have since I was a kid.  I just refused to eat my pets as a kid.
> 
> My doe was a 4h rabbit prior to my getting her so her markings are acceptable.  I would also love to put my lab back on her raw food diet that I am unable to afford at the moment and that would be perfect.  How much meat would a trio of rabbits with the does mated alternately produce in a month?  Obviously that would be after the amount of time taken to start up.  My dog was on 4 1/2lbs meat and 1lb liver each week with a grain meal in the morning.  I tried feeding her the diet on chicken which I have more than enough of but she doesn't digest chicken well and stinks horribly everytime she eats it.


  Got to love those dogs.   Please correct me if I'm wrong.  Your dutch only had two kits?  Maybe when it's scheduled instead of accidental she will have more?  I think the number of kits you will get will be 4-5?  Though dutchs can be dual purpose, I don't believe they have as many kits as say a New Zealand.   Smaller bunnies have smaller litters.  But I could be wrong and hope someone else replies.   But maybe that's the amount you are looking for.  

Regarding the dinner table of the two?  If they are part dutch, I would see why they wouldn't be big enough for the dinner table.  There are loads of information for you to give your fiance to help him with preparing.   Or you could give them to the dog and hope the "stink" doesn't appear.  See how it goes.


----------



## hoodat (Aug 12, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> MyKidLuvsGreenEgz said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most people don't bother with the pelts but you're right rexes do make great pelts with that thick underhair and short guard hairs. Remember a couple of things about pelts though. Winter pelts are better than summer pelts. Summer pelts tend to shed a lot more. Pelts from fryer rabbits are paper thin and fragile after tanning. I never save pelts on rabbits under around 11 months. Those would be stewing rabbits. You can save pelts till ready for a tanning sesssion by rolling them up with the fur inside and freezing them.


----------



## elieugene6 (Aug 12, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> elieugene6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She had 6. One died as it got knocked out of nest and it was cold. I managed to get rid of 3 and these are the two I have left.  Both the only Boys from the litter.


----------



## Ms. Research (Aug 13, 2011)

elieugene6 said:
			
		

> Ms. Research said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You always have to deal with losses sometimes.  So she had six which is a nice size litter.   Will six a month be enough for what you want to do?  

Also curious?  No one wanted males?


----------



## elieugene6 (Aug 13, 2011)

No everyone that showed up wanted a girl.  There were a few that were interested in the boys but they never showed to get them.  I hate selling on craigslist.  Drives me nuts.


----------



## Ms. Research (Aug 13, 2011)

elieugene6 said:
			
		

> No everyone that showed up wanted a girl.  There were a few that were interested in the boys but they never showed to get them.  I hate selling on craigslist.  Drives me nuts.


I think that could happen any way you advertise, not just Craig's List.  Don't let it drive you nuts.  It's part of the business.   Any business that is.  People's word isn't what it used to be.  Get a deposit to hold.  You will know who is truly interested if they put money down.  And if that doesn't hold their attention for your bunny, then you have the deposit to help with expenses until you find someone who does want that bunny.   Plus now that you are considering rabbits as meat, I think the headache of Craig's List won't drive you nuts.  

You love rabbit meat?  Fiance doesn't mind the butchering?  Plus the dogs will have a treat?  

Don't let people's lack of courteousy get to you.  There's no problems, only solutions.


----------



## hoodat (Aug 14, 2011)

Most people looking for pets want a doe under the impresion that does will be gentler and more affectionate. Actually I find it just the opposite. Does are actually more affected by the biological imperative to breed so they will sometimes get cranky. Does don't actually come into heat, as such, like most other animals but they do go through cycles when they are more receptive. Bucks are usually more laid back. If the chance to breed occurs they are more than ready but if not it doesn't seem to bother them all that much.


----------



## Citylife (Aug 14, 2011)

I just got finished butchering a group of FW's @ 12 weeks and as usual there is enough meat on one rabbit to feed 4 adults.  
I do not want to handle big rabbits and have decided they are definately little blocks of meat with ears.  I package them for my household and the dogs love the organ meat.  I am still shocked at the size of the bones on the FW.  They are smaller then a pencil and surrounded in muscle.  
I will be butchering some younger ones with week.  I will be interested to see if there is a difference in taste or texture.  I have 4 does and 2 bucks and have plenty of rabbit to eat for us and the dogs and occasionally sell some breeding stock.


----------



## hoodat (Aug 14, 2011)

Speaking for myself I never noticed a difference in taste between does and bucks. It depends more on the diet than the sex. The more greens the better the taste IMHO. I'd like to raise them entirely on greens and grain if it weren't for the slower growing rate when there are no pellets.


----------



## Citylife (Aug 15, 2011)

hoodat said:
			
		

> Speaking for myself I never noticed a difference in taste between does and bucks. It depends more on the diet than the sex. The more greens the better the taste IMHO. I'd like to raise them entirely on greens and grain if it weren't for the slower growing rate when there are no pellets.


I have never kept track of what sex they were.  It never crossed my mind.  I would guess if there was any differance it would be the bucks were a bit tougher or more gamey or musky.  Interesting .......


----------



## hoodat (Aug 16, 2011)

The slightly gamy taste only shows up in old bucks you are retiring. Even then it isn't very strong since rabbit is a mild flavored meat and old rabbits usually end up in stew where the taste (such as it is) is not very noticeable.


----------

