# Abscesses/Lumps at CDT Injection Site



## mysunwolf (Apr 12, 2015)

We are new to sheep and have a flock of 6 ewes, plus a few lambs. We gave the pregnant girls their CDT shots in mid March on the left side and then again in early April on the right side. Yesterday I noticed that ALL the ewes have huge lumps on both injection sites. A few of them are reddish, so far none are "open" although there is a little scabbing on a few of the ewes. The lambs have lumps as well but not nearly as bad.

More info... we do subcu in the underarm and along the ribs with clean 18 gauge needles for the adults, 20 gauge for the lambs. Sometimes we re-use syringes and will sterilize by boiling them in water for 15 minutes. We don't re-use needles. We use one needle for the draw from the vial, and another needle to do the injection. 

The only thing that is different from last year is that I ordered my CDT from a different place and the brand is Colorado serum. We also did not give as much time for the meds to come to room temp from the fridge as we did last year. Weather was dry.

Any thoughts? A combination of factors? Just thought it was pretty uncommon or the whole flock to have huge lumps! Thanks sheep peeps.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 12, 2015)

We used a different brand of CD & T last year because the one we liked was always out of stock.... EVERY goat got a lump at the injection site.    Some ended up abscessed. 

 I can't tell you why it happened but these goats were not all given the shot at the same time. But we ended up pitching the rest of the vial.


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 12, 2015)

We used a different brand one time a got lumps on a few but not all who we vaccinated
Covexen


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## mysunwolf (Apr 12, 2015)

Thank you both, I think we'll switch to our old brand (whatever they carry at TSC) and see what happens. Maybe I'll massage for a full minute as well instead of 20-30 seconds. Might switch to new, sterile syringes as well, and try to let it come to room temp. Just a bit pissed that all my pretty girls now have to deal with lumps  We'll be watching to make sure none truly abscess. Most of them are due to lamb this week!


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## goatgurl (Apr 12, 2015)

the cdt vaccine i used last year left lumps on everyone too.  not egg sized but pinto bean sized.  hummm??


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## mysunwolf (Apr 12, 2015)

Mine are like jumbo lima bean sized  I'm going to keep a record of the brand name for this year and our regular brand and make a note if I see a difference next year.


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## purplequeenvt (Apr 13, 2015)

Ours generally get an injection-site abscess. They will go away after a while. 

I don't think that it matters what brand you use. You are injecting something through the skin. Unless you are thoroughly cleaning the injection site prior to injection, you WILL get some amount of dirt/bacteria in the prick. It also doesn't seem to matter if you use one needle per animal or give multiple shots with the same needle.

Our lambies get a bump in both armpits because we give CD&T as well as Clostridium Perfingens type A shots.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 18, 2015)

Sounds like either a contaminated vial, or needle, if these lumps are all abcesses.  I buy the disposable 3cc syringes with needles for my vaccinations.  I put alcohol on the rupper top of the vial before drawing with the sterile needle/syringe just out of the package.  Then I dispose of the needle and syringe in an empty plastic gallon milk bottle that I keep in the barn.  I tie a hayrope through the handle so it can be hung from a nail or hook.  When it is full, it goes to the disposal place for dangerous waste.  I never got lumps on my goats but sheep are harder to tell when they are in fleece.  I usually vaccinate the adults right after shearing and haven't noticed any lumps.  I vaccinate the lambs on the inside of the groin sub Q and rub afterward.  I think the movement of the leg against the groin afterwards helps to massage the injection site too.


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## mysunwolf (Apr 18, 2015)

Two different vials of CDT, we used both disposable sterile syringes and syringes I had sterilized, all sterile needles, swabbed alcohol on the vial, used a different needle for drawing up the liquid than for injecting, and we have a sharps jar. So while I had originally thought contamination, it doesn't make much sense to me with our practices, unless there's something else I'm missing.


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## purplequeenvt (Apr 18, 2015)

@mysunwolf - did you also clean the injection site? If not, that could be the "contamination". Think about how dirty sheep are. You are taking a needle and poking a hole through the skin. Dirt on the outside of the skin WILL get under the skin.

I am a phlebotomist and there is a reason we clean your arm before we draw your blood.


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## purplequeenvt (Apr 18, 2015)

FYI....I do not clean the injection site on my lambs prior to vaccinating either....


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## mysunwolf (Apr 18, 2015)

purplequeenvt said:


> @mysunwolf - did you also clean the injection site? If not, that could be the "contamination". Think about how dirty sheep are. You are taking a needle and poking a hole through the skin. Dirt on the outside of the skin WILL get under the skin.
> 
> I am a phlebotomist and there is a reason we clean your arm before we draw your blood.



Nope, that's the thing we didn't do! I read somewhere that you _weren't_ supposed to do that, but maybe I should start...


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## purplequeenvt (Apr 18, 2015)

mysunwolf said:


> Nope, that's the thing we didn't do! I read somewhere that you _weren't_ supposed to do that, but maybe I should start...



I think that you are probably fine not doing it. I don't know anyone, and that includes vets, that clean and injection site. The reality is that your sheep will probably get a little abscess no matter what you do.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 18, 2015)

Still I think it might be a contaminated batch.  If it was just dirty skin contaminating the site, think of all the other livestock, horses, etc. that get shots without cleaning the site.  I try to pour alcohol on the injection site, but it doesn't always look that clean and I don't get abcesses.  Getting abcesses on _each_ animal at _each_ injection site makes me think it is the vaccine that is contaminated.  I would get a new bottle and toss the one you have been using.  I have heard of other people who have used vaccine and gotten abcesses from just that bottle so . . . .


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## purplequeenvt (Apr 18, 2015)

Our sheep have always gotten small abscesses after vaccines. CD&T or rabies (those being the main vaccines we give). So unless every single batch we've ever used (and we've been raising sheep for 15 years) of any vaccine is contaminated, I don't think that is the issue. I also wonder if the abscess could be an immune response?


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