# Goat mineral issue



## Goat Mania (Sep 23, 2018)

Hi

None of the minerals discussed on the forum are available in Asia. I am of the opinion that my herds productivity is low due to bad nutrition and mineral balance. Im trying to work around it as best I can

I have compared the available mineral mixtures with RAGLAND minerals in the picture below. The last column has RAGLAND mills goat mineral composition.

Can someone knowledgeable please help me sort out my mineral dilemma? By the way these minerals are made for cows not goats. We have nothing here specifically for goats

Thanks in advance!


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## babsbag (Sep 23, 2018)

I think that you forgot to post the picture, or at least I don't see one.


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## Goat Mania (Sep 23, 2018)

babsbag said:


> I think that you forgot to post the picture, or at least I don't see one.


Oh Im sorry, I posted before it got properly attached. Re-attached it now


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## babsbag (Sep 23, 2018)

I have never heard of Ragland mineral. It is not for goats as there is NO copper in it and goats need copper. I am thinking that it must be a sheep mineral.  I would go with the mineral that has the highest copper. The 24 calcium is really high but the phosphorus is a good balance to the Calcium so I think that I would still go with the mineral A.


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## Goat Mania (Sep 23, 2018)

babsbag said:


> I have never heard of Ragland mineral. It is not for goats as there is NO copper in it and goats need copper. I am thinking that it must be a sheep mineral.  I would go with the mineral that has the highest copper. The 24 calcium is really high but the phosphorus is a good balance to the Calcium so I think that I would still go with the mineral A.



Thanks. I'm attaching the ragland label here. The Mineral A is 3 times more expensive than others too. But  as you noticed the others are lacking in copper. Is there anything else I need to supplement with if I am feeding A?

Also I don't leave it our free choice. Here we add about 20g per day into concentrate feed as we serve it wet. 20g a day is not enough?


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## babsbag (Sep 24, 2018)

One of the best goat minerals near me is Sweetlix Magnum Milk .I would look at that label as a comparison. I'm not sure about things like the selenium as it is always hard to determine weight, percentage, or ppm. Also, my soil is very deficient in Selenium and yours may not be, but selenium is something else that goats need .  

Can you leave it out free choice? Many people think that the goats will eat what they need. Also, can you get cobalt blocks? That might be good too.


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## babsbag (Sep 24, 2018)

https://www.sweetlix.com/products/60732-magnum-milk-mineral/


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## Goat Mania (Sep 24, 2018)

babsbag said:


> One of the best goat minerals near me is Sweetlix Magnum Milk .I would look at that label as a comparison. I'm not sure about things like the selenium as it is always hard to determine weight, percentage, or ppm. Also, my soil is very deficient in Selenium and yours may not be, but selenium is something else that goats need .
> 
> Can you leave it out free choice? Many people think that the goats will eat what they need. Also, can you get cobalt blocks? That might be good too.



I can leave it out free choice they would waste it though. Cobalt blocks are not available here. I'll check out the magnum milk label.

If I am supplementing I will have to add copper sulphate / cobalt sulphate seperately.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Sep 24, 2018)

Why not combine the Ragland with the one containing copper?  Best of both.  Adding on top of feed can get tricky when considering age, stage of gestation, lactation, etc.  Free choice is so much easier!  If you only have a few goats a gallon plastic jug can be made into a mineral feeder.


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## Goat Mania (Sep 24, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Why not combine the Ragland with the one containing copper?  Best of both.  Adding on top of feed can get tricky when considering age, stage of gestation, lactation, etc.  Free choice is so much easier!  If you only have a few goats a gallon plastic jug can be made into a mineral feeder.



Thanks for taking time to reply Donna. Ragland is not available here. Only the others are. I came across Ragland from one of the carousel advertisements on BYH. So thought it was a house hold name for most people.

I am considering using the one with more copper and one of the others mixed together (to reduce cost). Waiting for others here to check it out and approve of it!


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## greybeard (Sep 24, 2018)

Goat Mania said:


> I came across Ragland from one of the carousel advertisements on BYH. So thought it was a house hold name for most people.


It is.... For almost all livestock people. They had a mill in San Angelo, but I think it was sold to another company since I left there. AFAIK, the Ragland mill in Paris Tx is still making their lick tubs and wrapped blocks.  Main mill and office is in Mo or Kansas.


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## babsbag (Sep 24, 2018)

Could you order a copper bolus and have it sent to you? My goats don't waste their minerals like they do other feed, I use a pipe feeder and they can't really spill it. 

View attachment 52595


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## Goat Mania (Sep 24, 2018)

babsbag said:


> Could you order a copper bolus and have it sent to you? My goats don't waste their minerals like they do other feed, I use a pipe feeder and they can't really spill it.
> 
> View attachment 52595



I'm trying to get friends over there to buy and send me some. I can't see the attachment. It doesn't download.




greybeard said:


> It is.... For almost all livestock people. They had a mill in San Angelo, but I think it was sold to another company since I left there. AFAIK, the Ragland mill in Paris Tx is still making their lick tubs and wrapped blocks.  Main mill and office is in Mo or Kansas.



I see.


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## misfitmorgan (Sep 24, 2018)

We give our goats and sheep a sheep loose mineral, then give our goats copper bolus.

This is the mineral we have been using, with really good results.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-sheep-mineral-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005

We tried two other brands including a sweet lixs but our goats just did not like it, not sure why. This brand they have eaten about 30lbs in a month, which is a lot I think for 13 goats/sheep but they all look nice and have shiny coats and new wool. We also feed it free choice.

How many goats do you have? Are they milk goats or meat goats?


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## Goat Mania (Sep 24, 2018)

misfitmorgan said:


> We give our goats and sheep a sheep loose mineral, then give our goats copper bolus.
> 
> This is the mineral we have been using, with really good results.
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/dumor-sheep-mineral-50-lb?cm_vc=-10005
> ...



I have about 50 goats. Both milk and meat. We do not have good genetics here. The maximum a good milker would produce is 3kg and they are rare. Most don't go beyond 1.5kg a day. I'm talking Saanen here. Bad nutrition, inbreeding etc have taken its toll.

I have some pictures and videos on my FB page if you want to see some of them : https://www.facebook.com/munawwarahfarmssrilanka/

I'm trying to salvage whatever good genetics I can find and work on proper nutrition. We do not have goat feed here. Or minerals for goats. So it's an uphill task


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## babsbag (Sep 24, 2018)




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## babsbag (Sep 24, 2018)

Can you order from places like Amazon or Jefferspet.com? Or maybe places out of Australia?


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## babsbag (Sep 24, 2018)

You have some cute kids on your FB page. Your goats look happy and healthy so that counts for a lot. I have no idea what your climate is or how much land you have but look at a plant called Tree Lucerne, also known as Tagasaste. It is a perennial tree that can be grown for browse for livestock and very high in protein; like alfalfa on a tree. They grow it in South Africa and also here in the US.


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## misfitmorgan (Sep 25, 2018)

babsbag said:


> You have some cute kids on your FB page. Your goats look happy and healthy so that counts for a lot. I have no idea what your climate is or how much land you have but look at a plant called Tree Lucerne, also known as Tagasaste. It is a perennial tree that can be grown for browse for livestock and very high in protein; like alfalfa on a tree. They grow it in South Africa and also here in the US.


 
They are in Sri Lanka Babs


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## misfitmorgan (Sep 25, 2018)

Goat Mania said:


> I have about 50 goats. Both milk and meat. We do not have good genetics here. The maximum a good milker would produce is 3kg and they are rare. Most don't go beyond 1.5kg a day. I'm talking Saanen here. Bad nutrition, inbreeding etc have taken its toll.
> 
> I have some pictures and videos on my FB page if you want to see some of them : https://www.facebook.com/munawwarahfarmssrilanka/
> 
> I'm trying to salvage whatever good genetics I can find and work on proper nutrition. We do not have goat feed here. Or minerals for goats. So it's an uphill task



Nice goats! Do you ever feed your goats tararind? It has good copper in it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamarind

I also found this, don't know if you have seen it before. It lists lots of good plants for goats in Sri Lanka, there might be some you can feed to help boost some minerals.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3035/bd8aa40878f54b9200ddd32b7855a3aa859b.pdf

From the tiny bit of information I can find Colombo Forages does make goat and sheep minerals. Any chance you can find that near you?


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Sep 25, 2018)

@misfitmorgan - That's a great article on goats in Sri Lanka.  I wish we had one like that about goats in North Carolina!


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## Goat Mania (Sep 25, 2018)

babsbag said:


> You have some cute kids on your FB page. Your goats look happy and healthy so that counts for a lot. I have no idea what your climate is or how much land you have but look at a plant called Tree Lucerne, also known as Tagasaste. It is a perennial tree that can be grown for browse for livestock and very high in protein; like alfalfa on a tree. They grow it in South Africa and also here in the US.



I have very little land and leased land at that. Its called ipil ipil here. The strain available here is less productive. I heard that in India they have developed certain strains of Lucerne that produce more green


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## Goat Mania (Sep 25, 2018)

misfitmorgan said:


> Nice goats! Do you ever feed your goats tararind? It has good copper in it.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamarind
> 
> I also found this, don't know if you have seen it before. It lists lots of good plants for goats in Sri Lanka, there might be some you can feed to help boost some minerals.
> ...



I don't feed tamarind now. I'm going to start though! Thanks. Colombo Forages sells raw materials for making minerals. They don't have a product of their own. Yet.


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## misfitmorgan (Sep 26, 2018)

Goat Mania said:


> I don't feed tamarind now. I'm going to start though! Thanks. Colombo Forages sells raw materials for making minerals. They don't have a product of their own. Yet.



Awesome, hopefully you see some good results!


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Sep 26, 2018)

G'day,an interesting thread on a problem in many parts of the world due in part to the practice of intensive farming especially goats.

If I were in your position here is where I would start.Consult with the leading livestock specialist in your National Dept of Agriculture.Which is the principal product you are trying to produce ,milk or meat?In the past we were in the business of producing meat from Dairy Goats and over 20 years of production learned a lot of lessons about how to be successful at it.Apart from a good mineral mix the next thing you will have to address is the lack of genetic diversity in the flock,generally speaking a straight bred dairy goat produces "at best" a mediocre "meat carcass",because the aim is to produce the best quality and quantity of milk.

You stated that you have about 50 goats,how many are you milking and what is the bred break-up? In a "perfect setup" the Saanan is the most productive producer of milk,but I am not so sure about its suitability to a tropical environment? Can you access locally some of the dairy breeds from the sub-continent?You indicated that you are on leased land,how much land and what is  the degree of purchased feed? There does seem to be a lot of factors impacting your production project apart from the mineral deficiency one which in fact is the "easiest " to solve in my opinion.

Anyway have a think about the above and some of the questions have put,as to the mineral mix our hand mixed version of Pat Colby's has served us for over 40 years on all classes of livestock and I think you could most likely get them over there.The only one that may test you ids dried Seaweed Meal but then if you are close to the coast and away from polluted beaches you may be able to acquire "fresh" and hang it on the washing line to dry and feed it like that....T.O.R.


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## Goat Mania (Sep 28, 2018)

babsbag said:


> View attachment 52610



Thanks for this. I am going to a similar one. Had something similar when I was breeding quails


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## Goat Mania (Sep 28, 2018)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day,an interesting thread on a problem in many parts of the world due in part to the practice of intensive farming especially goats.
> 
> If I were in your position here is where I would start.Consult with the leading livestock specialist in your National Dept of Agriculture.Which is the principal product you are trying to produce ,milk or meat?In the past we were in the business of producing meat from Dairy Goats and over 20 years of production learned a lot of lessons about how to be successful at it.Apart from a good mineral mix the next thing you will have to address is the lack of genetic diversity in the flock,generally speaking a straight bred dairy goat produces "at best" a mediocre "meat carcass",because the aim is to produce the best quality and quantity of milk.
> 
> ...



Hello and thanks for the detailed response!
There is a Department of Animal Production and Health here who have nothing to offer in terms of good genetics, nutrition or vaccinations. There exists only a tetanus vaccine here. No CDT or anything else. There are some officials who are enthusiastic about helping but lack of knowledge and experience limits them. There is a lot of red tape if anything is to be imported too. Its like mission impossible 

I am cross breeding Saanens with Boer for meat. But the Boer and Saanen stock both are heavily inbred. My initial goal is milk and to later sell breeding stock of good milkers and foundation stock for those wanting to start a meat herd.

The tropical climate does affect production but I have noticed they make it work in Philippines successfully. I have just over quarter of an acre and concentrate feed is purchased. I have access to lentil bran, vigna mungo bran, rice bran, coconut meal cake  and wheat bran. The 'brans' are the cheapest. Barley for example is today a bit more than US $ 1.77 per kg (dehulled). We dont have barley seeds here. It is imported. Corn is US $ 0.40 cents.

We have some napier grown, we cut jak tree leaves, gliricidia sepium and feed them a mixture of everything. 

Pat Colebys mix your taking about is as below?

Straight Lime
Dolomite
Sulphur (99%)
Copper Sulphate
Seaweed (kelp) meal
Agricultural salt 

Yes, I will have a hard time with the seaweed meal. Is there any other substitute for it?


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## Goat Mania (Sep 28, 2018)

After reading again I see that I missed a few points.

There are no proper dairy breeds I have access to. Nothing with more than half a litre of milk a day and none of them have long lactations. Maximum 4 months after kidding and they dry up.

At the moment I am milking only about 5 of them. Another 8 of them due to kid within a month. Here we usually start milking them after 2 months as the kids are dam raised.

The rest of my herd are Jamunaparis and Gulabi goats. I'm selling off the others so I can bring only dairy goats in. But keeping the F1 Boer doelings to slowly breed up to pure bred Boer.

I also feel a dash of Boer blood will do good to a future composite breed as they do better in hotter climates


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Sep 28, 2018)

G'day GM,Pat Colby's min as shown ,note: Dolomite is the form of lime (not agri lime)You can get Seaweed Meal on E-bay,the Aussie Vitagran is the one we use.For the salt portion we use the salt they sell for swimming pools its the least refined and its granular nature means that all the other ingredients "stick " it.

If it was me in your position I would gather up a group of "like minded" producers and approach the National govt with a view to them setting up an import program of suitable dairy genetics .This does not have to be live animals but sperm and embryos and using local stock the country could develop its expertise in the area of improving the production outcomes for the nation.

On the milking side ,with such a short lactation ,where is the profit ,is it in the milk sales or the value of the meat? Have you considered using "milk replacer" to rear the kids? Again search E-bay so you can evaluate the cost of this path.

Using  straight bred Boer bucks over your x-breds is OK as long as the available gene pool is great enough.Once again a Govt program could "fast track" the introduction of improved genetics and the academics could benifiet from the experience gained and apply it to other livestock enterprises.

Anyway hope the above is of some value to your efforts into the future....T.O.R.


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## Goat Mania (Sep 29, 2018)

The Old Ram-Australia said:


> G'day GM,Pat Colby's min as shown ,note: Dolomite is the form of lime (not agri lime)You can get Seaweed Meal on E-bay,the Aussie Vitagran is the one we use.For the salt portion we use the salt they sell for swimming pools its the least refined and its granular nature means that all the other ingredients "stick " it.
> 
> If it was me in your position I would gather up a group of "like minded" producers and approach the National govt with a view to them setting up an import program of suitable dairy genetics .This does not have to be live animals but sperm and embryos and using local stock the country could develop its expertise in the area of improving the production outcomes for the nation.
> 
> ...



This has been tried but no response from them. But will take your suggestion and try again. The Saanens milk for more than 7 months. So the money is there. Meat profits is not much. Some breeders after many years have founds ways to increase lactation and overall health. Most probably by tweaking nutrition and or adding spices to boost them. BUT they do not want to share information. They want to be famous for having such goats. Absurd and stupid as it seems. You cant even waterboard them into divulging anything.

I tried milk replacer but didnt work well. Had 5 kids die with scours. It was too labour intensive and expensive. 

Your advise was very valuable!


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Sep 30, 2018)

G'day GM,it would seem you have the task in front of you.Are you in the north or the south of Sri Lanka? Have you approached the N G O's from overseas that operate in your country? Where are your largest ex-pat community's? As an ex commonwealth country I would try the British Dairy Goat Society for some help,Some of the N G O's that support agriculture have tremendous resources in their home country's.What are the regulations regarding live animal imports into your country,as the country of origin can make it easier or harder depending on which country it is.I would think A.I or embryos is the way to go and it could be that some tech support could come with it.But as with all these things its the group support that you need,just "dodge" the ones that will not co-operate now ,because if your group is successful they will come calling and you can just ignore them.

As always I hope the above is of some value ......T.O.R.


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## misfitmorgan (Oct 1, 2018)

Have you considered that the fact your waiting 2 months before milking may be helping cause a decrease in production? Generally most people in the US anyhow will start milking a dairy goat at 1 week after delivery. They generally milk twice a day, this causes the dairy goats to produce more milk. At first you just milk a little like a 1/2 to 1 cup(4-8oz) and as time goes on and the kids get to eating other food you milk more and more until the kid is weaned then you milk it all.


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## The Old Ram-Australia (Oct 3, 2018)

G'day GM, I recall that years ago when I visited Fiji that years before a part of the UN had completed a project where they introduced new genetics to the govt goat meat dept along with tech support to improve there goat meat output.Perhaps if you contact the Dept of Ag in Fiji they may be able to give you the details...T.O.R.


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## Goat Mania (Oct 6, 2018)

First of all forgive me for the delay in responding. 

@tor

I am based in the western province. I have taken your advice and starting contacting a few NGO's. Let's hope something works out. The majority Expat community is in Colombo close to where I live.

I will contact th Fijians too and see if I can get a lead 

@misfitmorgan

You are right. Starting tomorrow I am milking the right way.


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