# confused on fencing



## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

Hi!  We are finally ready to start our "herd" and I'm very confused on what we should do for fencing.  Here are the details: 

We will be getting 2 market lambs for 4h and 2 Nigerian Dwarf kids this April / May.  The lambs will be sold at the end of August.  We are only zoned for a max of 8 large animals at this time so we don't have plans for a huge herd.  We are going to start with a small pasture about 0.75 acre split into 0.25 and 0.5 due to the lay out of the land and where we need to put their house (highest area with no flooding and far enough from property lines).  We will add another 05 - 1 acre pasture in a year or 2.  We are in SE MI on 10 acres on a very small private road. Our neighbors all have 3-10 acres parcels so we aren't totally secluded. We don't have a ton of predators.  We do have coyotes, but since we got a Great Pyrenees last winter we have noticed the coyotes come round a lot less frequently.  The Pyr isn't really a LGD, so he won't be confined to the pasture.  He's a pet / farm dog at this point.  He's 15 months old and while he loves to be outside and make his rounds, he prefers to be close to the humans.  I do plan to have him socialize and hang with the goats during the day when we are home (but we won't be forcing it as he's really a people dog).  Not sure about when we are gone yet, I guess I will see how he does with them.  The goats and lambs will be locked in their house / mini barn at night.  We'd rather not do electric fencing if we don't have to because we have a 5 and 8 year old and I don't want to risk one of their friends getting shocked. But we will consider electric if that's the only good option to keep the animals safe.

I found this 5 ft high welded wire fencing.  2 x 4 in spacing 14 gauge.

https://www.amazon.com/Mat-Midwest-...pID=41rIHDJ0QgL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch


I also found this fencing but it's only 4 ft high.  It seems stronger though.  Its woven wire 4 x 4 in spacing.  12.5 gauge.  The woven wire is cheaper, looks stronger, but is a foot shorter. 

http://www.kencove.com/fence/Sheep+and+Goat+Fence_detail_WH4X4.php

Are we better off with the 4 ft woven wire?  Does 5 ft vs 4 ft even matter?  Any there other options we might not have considered?

thanks so much for the input!


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## greybeard (Mar 16, 2018)

Welded wire won't be for long.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

greybeard said:


> Welded wire won't be for long.


so you're saying go with woven wire instead?  what about the height?  is 4 ft enough?


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## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

TSC has this brand a little cheaper and I can pick it up locally.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/red-brand-goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft-3660338


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## Baymule (Mar 16, 2018)

When you thing welded, you think strength, but NOT welded wire. A dog can shake it with their teeth and utterly destroy it. Any hooved animal can paw at it and break the spot welds. It is pure trash. Do not waste your time or money. 

I used the 2"x4" woven wire and it is 4 feet high. A coyote can clear it easily, but my 2 Great Pyrenees keep them out. My male GP can also jump it, and jumped out (off the property) ONE time, which led to daily come to Jesus meetings for 3 weeks while I marched him down the fenceline, shaking the fence, scolding, and letting him know not to do that again. And he never has.

I think the woven sheep and goat wire 4"x4" would work well for you as well as the 2"x4"  and is  a bit cheaper. 

Here is a link to my post on us fencing our 8 acres. I did some things right, some things not-so-right and there is a lot of good discussion on the whole process that might help you.

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/non-climb-2-x4-horse-wire-fence.32922/

My male GP is also much of a people dog, but stays out at night, except for him coming to the window, peering in and asking to come in. He does that maybe once or twice a week, sprawls out in the floor, takes a nap, then is ready to go back outside. LOL He is a good sheep guardian, jumps in when needed, jumps out when bored. What can I say, you just gotta let these dogs be who they are. LOL

There are a lot of good people here with a LOT more fencing experience than I and a lot of them weighed in on my thread. Ask any questions and they will be glad to answer and help you any way they can. Keep your thread going and take pictures of your progress. People here will comment and help you.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

Thanks Baymule!  I'll look to see if there is any 2 x 4 woven available and if not go with the 4 x 4.  I agree on letting the dogs be who they are.  Who knows my pup might fall in love with the goats and want to hang with them all the time.  My original intention with him was as a LGD but we only had chickens for him to guard so he bonded with us more.  I don't really mind...I love him dearly and am happy to have him hang with me most of the day.  I'll check out your thread.  this weekend we will start brush hogging the over growth where the pasture will be, so i'll take some before pics.  Very excited!


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## CntryBoy777 (Mar 16, 2018)

I have 3 goats pygmy/boer crosses and I put up 2"x4"x5' welded wire. There are older sections that I did before increasing the amount of ground that is fenced. The older section already needs replacing as the goats have simply rubbed on the wire and have popped some of the welds. I will be replacing the whole mess of it this next fall. I also documented mine in a fencing thread. If at all possible, I'd advise ya to go with the woven wire, so ya won't be replacing it as soon....not to mention the chances of injured animals.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

Ok I did some more price checking on woven wire fencing and with what I think we'll need here are my best options:

Red Brand at TSC goat fence, 4 ft high, 4 x 4 in squares, class 1 galvanized, total cost for fencing only = $466

Red Brand at Rural King  no climb horse fencing 4 ft high, 2 x 4 in squares class 1 galvanized, total cost for fencing only = $660

Kencove brand online 4 ft high, 2 x 4 in squares class 3 galvanized, total cost for fencing only = $675

Kencove brand online 5 ft high, 2 x 4 in squares class 3 galvanized, total cost for fencing only = $900

My question is how important would 4 ft vs 5 ft be?  Will 5 ft even keep coyotes out?  Does that matter so much if we lock them in at night?

Sounds like 4 x 4 might be good enough, but should I spend $400 more for a 5 ft high 2 x 4 ?  and would I be better off spending $200 more to get the class 3 galvanized 2 x4 versus the red brand 4 x 4?


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## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

CntryBoy777 said:


> I have 3 goats pygmy/boer crosses and I put up 2"x4"x5' welded wire. There are older sections that I did before increasing the amount of ground that is fenced. The older section already needs replacing as the goats have simply rubbed on the wire and have popped some of the welds. I will be replacing the whole mess of it this next fall. I also documented mine in a fencing thread. If at all possible, I'd advise ya to go with the woven wire, so ya won't be replacing it as soon....not to mention the chances of injured animals.


thanks for the input!  I will def go with woven now.    Just debating height now and 2 x 4 vs 4 x 4.


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## CntryBoy777 (Mar 16, 2018)

A coyote can clear a 5' fence and the only real reason for the extra height is to deter chickens from flying over and if there are severe land differences to adjust for....just be sure there are no spots that the goats can get on and are close to the fence to jump over....such as stumps or toys. The shorter fence is easier to deal with and if ya check the amount per roll, most 4' fence comes in 330' rolls and the 5' can be as little as 100' rolls.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

CntryBoy777 said:


> A coyote can clear a 5' fence and the only real reason for the extra height is to deter chickens from flying over and if there are severe land differences to adjust for....just be sure there are no spots that the goats can get on and are close to the fence to jump over....such as stumps or toys. The shorter fence is easier to deal with and if ya check the amount per roll, most 4' fence comes in 330' rolls and the 5' can be as little as 100' rolls.


ok great thanks!  I'll have my husband check the area and see we have some short spots.  might be likely.  Do you recommend 2 x 4 vs 4 x4 for long term wear and tear?  or does that not really matter?


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## CntryBoy777 (Mar 16, 2018)

I'd say that the 4"x4" would do just fine, unless ya have animals that would fit thru a 4" hole that ya are going to maintain, but goats shouldn't be an issue.


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## greybeard (Mar 16, 2018)

You need to research your fencing (and how to do it) very thoroughly before making any purchase decision.  A fence should last 40 years, and it's lifetime dictated by how long the posts last, not by how long the wire does. Wire should last a lot longer than the posts.
Class1 galv often begins rusting within 5 years. Class 3 galv will be rust free up to 15 years..maybe longer unless it is exposed to a salt air environment. 

I do understand, that initial costs and outlay can be intimidating, but buy the best wire you can find and the best posts you can find. Not all woven wire is created equally. Some, will not follow uneven terrain very well, others will without any strand being loose.
You should be able to get woven wire to stand on it's own when you tension it.

You can by the way, buy woven wire in 600' + rolls.





If I were going to install goat/sheep fencing, it would be Tornado 1348-12 12.5g fixed knot HT with 1 or 2 hot wires above the net fence. HT stretches tighter, lasts longer, and requires fewer posts.
No, it isn't inexpensive wire, but as with anything permanent, you want to divide the cost into the years of use you will get before need to replace it.

I suggest you look at some Youtube videos posted by someone named Farm Fence Solutions out of Indiana. He knows his stuff.


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## greybeard (Mar 16, 2018)

Something else to consider. Figure up your real cost (per linear foot) of building this fence and then get some quotes of having it done by a professional fence builder. In some places, you can get it done in a faster & cost effective manner better than you might think and maybe even better than you can build it yourself.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

greybeard said:


> You need to research your fencing (and how to do it) very thoroughly before making any purchase decision.  A fence should last 40 years, and it's lifetime dictated by how long the posts last, not by how long the wire does. Wire should last a lot longer than the posts.
> Class1 galv often begins rusting within 5 years. Class 3 galv will be rust free up to 15 years..maybe longer unless it is exposed to a salt air environment.
> 
> I do understand, that initial costs and outlay can be intimidating, but buy the best wire you can find and the best posts you can find. Not all woven wire is created equally. Some, will not follow uneven terrain very well, others will without any strand being loose.
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion!  The tornado fence you linked is actually the cheapest option.  It looks like the spacing is 12x3 at the bottom and 12x 6 at the top though.  I thought i read to go smaller that 6 inches spacing for goats so they don't get their heads stuck.  Is there something I'm not understanding or am i looking at the wrong size fencing?


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## Alexz7272 (Mar 16, 2018)

For my sheep & alpacas (and formerly also goats) we used the Red Brand goat fencing. It has held up great for us. We are moving to a 6 strand system on the 4 acres we are fencing but use the goat fencing for the run in or collection pens. 
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/red-brand-goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft?cm_vc=-10005


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## babsbag (Mar 16, 2018)

I use the red brand 4x4 and 2x4 woven wire for my goats.  It can be a challenge on hilly ground. I have been known to run it down a ravine, cut it at a post, and run it up the other side, but that was a steep ravine. It can be hard to stretch on a hill. But it is the only kind of fencing I would even consider with goats.


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## Latestarter (Mar 16, 2018)

The only issue with holes larger than 4"x4" is that if you ever intend to breed, the babies can go right through it. Everyone else has given you great info to decide from. Hope you share as you go along!


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## Robyn8 (Mar 16, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> The only issue with holes larger than 4"x4" is that if you ever intend to breed, the babies can go right through it. Everyone else has given you great info to decide from. Hope you share as you go along!


i think we're going to go with the 2x4.  good point about the babies! it's highly likely I'll want to breed something at some point. With the size pasture we're starting with it's only like $200 difference for the 2x4.


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## greybeard (Mar 16, 2018)

Robyn8 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion!  The tornado fence you linked is actually the cheapest option.  It looks like the spacing is 12x3 at the bottom and 12x 6 at the top though.  I thought i read to go smaller that 6 inches spacing for goats so they don't get their heads stuck.  Is there something I'm not understanding or am i looking at the wrong size fencing?



1st off, I am not a goat person..I raise cattle.

The Tornado Titan wire I suggested is 48" tall and has 13 horizontal wires on it.
They are all spaced with vertical wires every 12"  which of course mean the openings are 12" wide.
The lower 18" of fence is made of six rows of 3"X12" openings.
The next 2 rows are 4"x12" openings.
The next 2 rows up are 5" X12" openings.
Only the top 2 rows are 6" X12" openings.
All the horizontal wires are 12.5 ga and it's HT, meaning it is not ever going to get loose and sag or the openings get any bigger if tensioned correctly to begin with, like the low carbon Red Brand (and any other low carbon) wire will.




If you can tension that or any other 12.5 ga HT fixed knot like it's supposed to be and then pull the openings apart with your hands big enough for an animal to get it's head thru, you're stronger than I am.
Is there better and/or less expensive fencing? Maybe.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 17, 2018)

Ok goat people I have a new question.  My husband just paced off the area we plan to pasture and it's only about 80 x 150 ft which gives us 12,000 sq ft (0.28 acre).  I thought it was a lot bigger so now I'm bummed.  We can add another section in a year or two but it involves moving my husband's tree stand he's not game to do that this year.  We wanted to get two Nigerian dwarf kids and 2 market lambs for 4h.  The lambs will be gone end of August. Providing hay and grain is not an issue.  I know we'll need to and that's fine.  The area is all overgrown grass and weeds.  It grows like crazy.  Is this small of a pasture worth splitting and rotating?  Again not worried about the land providing all their food just worried about them trampling it or eating too much and killing it.  If we provide plenty of hay will they be ok on that space without killing it all?


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## Robyn8 (Mar 17, 2018)

We do have a lot of other area we could set them out to graze on like a leash sort of set up.  Just not area we'd like to fence in.


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## Bruce (Mar 17, 2018)

greybeard said:


> You can by the way, buy woven wire in 600' + rolls.


Though you'll never be able to lift it without machinery 

I don't think I would bother permanently partitioning a section that is 80'x150' for the purposes of rotation with 4 animals. You could always use a section of electronet if you did have occasional need.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 17, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Though you'll never be able to lift it without machinery
> 
> I don't think I would bother permanently partitioning a section that is 80'x150' for the purposes of rotation with 4 animals. You could always use a section of electronet if you did have occasional need.


Thanks! My husband doesn't  want to section it so this is great feedback!


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## Latestarter (Mar 17, 2018)

Nahhhh... they'll be fine. If they do get it all the way down to dirt, you'll have less parasite issues.


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## James Shiloh (Mar 21, 2018)

The welded wire I’ve put up does not hold up, but the goat fence from tractor supply has been awesome.  I put the posts 6 foot on center.


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## tindi (Mar 21, 2018)

We used red brand 5' woven horse fence from TSC but my goats have horns and I didn't want them getting tangled in the fence. Been up 5 years with no issues.


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## greybeard (Mar 21, 2018)

James Shiloh said:


> The welded wire I’ve put up does not hold up, but the goat fence from tractor supply has been awesome.  I put the posts 6 foot on center.


That's why it has 'been awesome".  Mine are spaced twice that distance most places, some places 15' apart. Even along the highway where there's 2200' of net fence, the posts are only 11' apart. I have roughly 16,000' of total fenceline here, so spacing the posts 6' apart would add a huge  cost to what I built.  It would be more fencewire than that if I didn't have over 350' of gates. 
I'll stick with HT wire, no matter what kind it is.  I wouldn't want to spend another $10 grand on posts.


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## goatboy1973 (Mar 21, 2018)

Robyn8 said:


> ok great thanks!  I'll have my husband check the area and see we have some short spots.  might be likely.  Do you recommend 2 x 4 vs 4 x4 for long term wear and tear?  or does that not really matter?


Tha welded wire is very short lived. It's not worth the $$$. Woven wire 48" high with a hot wire at the top and a hot wire at about 8" from the ground. With mkt lambs you surely don't want to use any barbed wire. Good luck!


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## TinySheepRancher (Mar 21, 2018)

Hi,
I have 3 babydoll Southdown sheep and added wire sheep fence from Tractor Supply to my existing fence to make it sheep proof when I got them. It has worked well and has been up for about 5 years now.

A great resource for sheep things is Premier 1 Sheep Supplies. Their website has good resources, and they test everything on their own sheep ranch. I’ve called them a number of times for advice on everything from electric fencing to flies biting my sheep’s ears, and they have always been really helpful.

Good luck!


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## Ridgetop (Mar 22, 2018)

Graybeard is correct when he says to do the job right the first time.  Stringing fence and setting fence posts is hard work.  You will be much older, busier, and less willing to put in the work 10 years down the road.  You will always have fencing issues but the better job you do now, and the better materials you use, the more you will save in the long run.  80 x 150 is not large enough to put in permanent pasture divisions.  You can use temporary fencing to divide the pasture if necessary.  Premier Sheep Supplies carries a good woven temporary electric fencing roll.  They have an on line site, and you can get solar chargers for electric fences.  The fence is bright yellow plastic with wire which is easily seen and lightweight to move around.  Do a really good quality perimeter fence and then look into options to divide it up.

You don't say whether your property is on the flat or is hilly.  If it is on a slope you will have other fencing issues.  Rain will wash the dirt out from under leaving holes, or up against the fence lowering the height, depending on which side of the slope you are on.  On the inside of a downhill fence the dirt and slough will build up and eventually your 5' fence will be about 3' high.  On the inside of a downhill slope the ground erodes from the animal traffic, occasionally washing out the posts.  We are now adding another 4' to the top of our 5' fence to deter our LGD's from jumping out and coyotes from jumping in.  LOL  We did solve the problem of uneven ground washing out from under the steep slopes of the fencing and leaving holes for the dogs to go under.  We took 3' lengths of 4' chain link fencing,  attaching one end to the existing fencing, and stretching the chain link inside the fence bottom on the ground.  Grass and weeds grow up through the chain link making it practically solid and prevent the dogs from digging out.

I don't think you have to worry about zoning for your animals as to the number including the market animals.  In our area, Los Angeles County, any _terminal 4-H or FFA project (market animals)_ does not count against your allowable animal count.  They are considered a _temporary educational project_ and animal control will not cite you since they will only be on the property for about 90 days.   I would go to animal control and make sure that they would be ok with it.  Most rural areas are more lenient about 4-H and FFA project animals.  Technically you cannot keep hogs in Los Angeles  but animal control ignores that rule for 4-H and FFA hogs.

Important on the matter of the 4-H market animals - you want them to be in a small pen so your children can handle them and practice showmanship.  Chasing them around a 1/4 acre enclosure may be amusing at first (take pix!), but will get old in a hurry.  Also, more importantly, your 4-H leader will have the 4-H lambs on a specific show lamb feeding program and you will need to feed them separately from your other animals.  Show/market lambs are fed a higher protein feed while your pet goats will be on a different, less rigidly controlled, feeding program with a lot more roughage to encourage development of their rumen.  Market lambs can't be on too much roughage (hay) since they will develop a "hay belly" instead of the sleek, streamlined market lamb body.  Depending on the supervision of your leader, your children will learn to judge how much finish (fat layer) to keep on their lambs, learn how to push them to gain weight, or hold them at a specific weight before pushing them to finish at fair time (feed more oats for this).  I suggest that you keep each lamb in a 12 x 12 pen to facilitate proper feeding for each lamb.  You can put wire around a 12 x 24 horse corral and when the lambs reach a certain weight divide the corral to provide 2 pens if necessary to feed individually.

You are going to have so much fun!!!


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## Robyn8 (Mar 22, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> Graybeard is correct when he says to do the job right the first time.  Stringing fence and setting fence posts is hard work.  You will be much older, busier, and less willing to put in the work 10 years down the road.  You will always have fencing issues but the better job you do now, and the better materials you use, the more you will save in the long run.  80 x 150 is not large enough to put in permanent pasture divisions.  You can use temporary fencing to divide the pasture if necessary.  Premier Sheep Supplies carries a good woven temporary electric fencing roll.  They have an on line site, and you can get solar chargers for electric fences.  The fence is bright yellow plastic with wire which is easily seen and lightweight to move around.  Do a really good quality perimeter fence and then look into options to divide it up.
> 
> You don't say whether your property is on the flat or is hilly.  If it is on a slope you will have other fencing issues.  Rain will wash the dirt out from under leaving holes, or up against the fence lowering the height, depending on which side of the slope you are on.  On the inside of a downhill fence the dirt and slough will build up and eventually your 5' fence will be about 3' high.  On the inside of a downhill slope the ground erodes from the animal traffic, occasionally washing out the posts.  We are now adding another 4' to the top of our 5' fence to deter our LGD's from jumping out and coyotes from jumping in.  LOL  We did solve the problem of uneven ground washing out from under the steep slopes of the fencing and leaving holes for the dogs to go under.  We took 3' lengths of 4' chain link fencing,  attaching one end to the existing fencing, and stretching the chain link inside the fence bottom on the ground.  Grass and weeds grow up through the chain link making it practically solid and prevent the dogs from digging out.
> 
> ...




Thanks for all the advice!  We have so much to learn!  Hmm maybe we are better off keeping the lambs in our big chicken run.  It's about 18 x 24 and a dry lot at this point.  The chickens refuse to use it right now due to the snow in it so we can probably keep them in their smaller run till the end of summer. The small run is enough space for the chickens if we don't add anymore this spring. Or we could just free range the chickens.  We were thinking of putting the goat kids in the chicken run due to the size difference between them and the lambs, but maybe it's better the other way around.  Lots to consider!

Oh and the area where the lamb / goat pasture will be is fairly level.  Some high and low spots but definitely not a hill.  It was previously mowed grass that the original owners let grow out.


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## ducks4you (Mar 26, 2018)

Robyn8 said:


> Ok I did some more price checking on woven wire fencing and with what I think we'll need here are my best options:
> Red Brand at TSC goat fence, 4 ft high, 4 x 4 in squares, class 1 galvanized, total cost for fencing only = $466
> Red Brand at Rural King  no climb horse fencing 4 ft high, 2 x 4 in squares class 1 galvanized, total cost for fencing only = $660
> Kencove brand online 4 ft high, 2 x 4 in squares class 3 galvanized, total cost for fencing only = $675
> ...





 

*Yes!*  Always go higher than you think you need.  My horse fencing (sorry, grabbed an old photo, but this guy is 16'3hh, which means he is 5'7" at the withers,) wouldn't keep your little fuzzy friends inside, but different animals need different fencing.  WhatEVER you do AVOID ANY barbed wire.  I don't care WHO might suggest it, but any animal can rip their hides on it.  I mention it bc many people believe it is a quick fix for a break.
If you THINK you need to put your animals inside at night, DO IT!
Btw,  WHERE are the photos?!?!?  We wish to ooo and ahhh over them.


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## Baymule (Mar 26, 2018)

ducks4you said:


> View attachment 45829
> 
> *Yes!*  Always go higher than you think you need.  My horse fencing (sorry, grabbed an old photo, but this guy is 16'3hh, which means he is 5'7" at the withers,) wouldn't keep your little fuzzy friends inside, but different animals need different fencing.  WhatEVER you do AVOID ANY barbed wire.  I don't care WHO might suggest it, but any animal can rip their hides on it.  I mention it bc many people believe it is a quick fix for a break.
> If you THINK you need to put your animals inside at night, DO IT!
> Btw,  WHERE are the photos?!?!?  We wish to ooo and ahhh over them.


That's a tall horse. I sold a 16'2 mare because my knees are worn out crap and I couldn't get on her. She was nice too.....sigh


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## greybeard (Mar 27, 2018)

In 53 years, with both cattle and horses, I've never had a single head of livestock injured by barbed wire. 
It is estimated, that there is easily over 100,000 miles of barbed wire fences just in the state of Texas, holding just shy of 400,000 horses, and right at 40 million head of breeding aged cattle. 
Injuries are extremely rare, but the choice is always open.


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## Alexz7272 (Mar 27, 2018)

Here’s the system we just switched to, only 1/4 done but working AMAZING so far. (I tested it myself a couple times )


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## Bruce (Mar 27, 2018)

Alexz7272 said:


> (I tested it myself a couple times )



Along with Mike and me! Never on purpose of course. And after an accidental "test" I sure wouldn't do it on purpose!


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## Jennifer Hinkle (Mar 27, 2018)

We use 16ft 4ft high cattle panels.  We have also used the field fence from Tractor Supply 4ft high 4x4 the one that is 330 ft. We have hair sheep and on the field fence if they step on it they can pull it down. So we prefer the cattle panels.  The 4ft vs. the 5ft in my opinion doesn't make much difference coyotes can jump over either one.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 29, 2018)

Pasture before pics! And a random one of the dog lol. Building starts Friday!  I'll update as we go.


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## Bruce (Mar 29, 2018)

Robyn8 said:


> Pasture before pics! And a random one of the dog lol. Building starts Friday! I'll update as we go.


Good for you, I often forget the "before" pictures.

I can't say I've ever seen someone mow snow before. Talk about the cart before the horse!


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## Robyn8 (Mar 29, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Good for you, I often forget the "before" pictures.
> 
> I can't say I've ever seen someone mow snow before. Talk about the cart before the horse!


I'm a very demanding wife!  No time to wait for the snow to melt, lol!


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## Latestarter (Mar 30, 2018)

Bruce beat me to comment on the snow mower  What a great looking LGD! Glad that you got him! Nice looking farm as well.


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## Robyn8 (Mar 30, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Bruce beat me to comment on the snow mower  What a great looking LGD! Glad that you got him! Nice looking farm as well.


Thanks!  We love our Pyr!  He's going to be so happy to have more to guard than just kids and chickens.


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## goatboy1973 (Mar 31, 2018)

goatboy1973 said:


> Tha welded wire is very short lived. It's not worth the $$$. Woven wire 48" high with a hot wire at the top and a hot wire at about 8" from the ground. With mkt lambs you surely don't want to use any barbed wire. Good luck!


We use the 4x4 as it is cheaper than the 2x4 but really doesn't matter as far as durability. We use the Red Brand brand of fence and have for 30+ years.


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## goatboy1973 (Apr 1, 2018)

I use Premier 1 for my custom print ear tags and electric fence tester. Their prices are a bit high but fencing is nowhere to cut corners though so you get what you pay for.


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## Robyn8 (Apr 3, 2018)

I have another question for you smart folks.  Instead of doing a people door and a goat door on the tiny barn we're building we're thinking of doing a split door to save some wall space for hanging hay and feeders outside.  How high up would we need to make the cut for the animal door?  Our "tiny barn" will be only 8x 12 so we can't use it for larger animals later on anyways.  We're planning on using it for goats and sheep and of course the Pyr needs to be able to get in too (even though i seriously doubt he'll want to sleep out there...he's mostly a pet right now lol).


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## AFewGoatsForMe (Apr 7, 2018)

Alexz7272 said:


> Here’s the system we just switched to, only 1/4 done but working AMAZING so far. (I tested it myself a couple times )
> 
> View attachment 45850





Curious what the spacing is between your strands?

We’re planning on adding another pasture this summer and was thinking about doing something like this. We had about 10 rolls of barbed wire given to us. We’d like to use it up but I would like to incorporate electric into it as well.

Are you using this for goats?


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## greybeard (Apr 7, 2018)

AFewGoatsForMe said:


> Curious what the spacing is between your strands?
> 
> We’re planning on adding another pasture this summer and was thinking about doing something like this. We had about 10 rolls of barbed wire given to us. We’d like to use it up but I would like to incorporate electric into it as well.
> 
> Are you using this for goats?



I don't think I've ever seen post spacing that tight especially when using that many strands.

I've used electric strands between and above strands of barbed wire with no problems, (the barbed strands themselves were not 'hot') tho you are very likely to get lots of flack about doing so here.


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## Latestarter (Apr 8, 2018)

Most here recommend against using barbed wire with goats, but if you mix electric strands along with, one hit and the goats shouldn't challenge the fence so the barbs shouldn't present an issue.


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## Jennifer Hinkle (Apr 8, 2018)

I have hair sheep and barb wire does not hold them in, thats why we always use cattle panels or field wire.  We have never had a problem with them getting out using this fencing. We have barb wire on part of our property and if we let them out in the yard to eat, then we have watch them and not let them by the barb wire or they will go through it. Just some friendly advice.


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## Robyn8 (Apr 10, 2018)

Here's an in progress pic of our tiny barn!


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## Alexz7272 (Apr 10, 2018)

@AFewGoatsForMe We followed this diagram but altered it a bit, our bottom hot wire was put on an inch length t post clip.


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## Robyn8 (Apr 19, 2018)

I got some new pics.  The house is still being finished and the pen is just a small temporary one but the lambs are settling in nicely!


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## Bruce (Apr 19, 2018)

Out of curiosity, are you planning on having ratchet straps permanently anchoring the corners? Or maybe planning angle braces as I see at the gate?


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## Robyn8 (Apr 19, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Out of curiosity, are you planning on having ratchet straps permanently anchoring the corners? Or maybe planning angle braces as I see at the gate?



The straps are definitely temporary lol.   My perfectionist husband would never allow those to stay.  We were just in a time crunch to get our lambs as the weather has been horrible this whole spring and the lamb auction had a fixed date.  I think he's planning to use braces and wooden posts in the corners. Once he gets the roof done this weekend, the real fencing will start.  We went with TSC's Red Barn 4 ft no climb horse fencing with a wire filled 8 ft gate, if anyone is curious on what we decided.  It was the best option locally for us.


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## Jennifer Hinkle (Apr 19, 2018)

Looks nice


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## Bruce (Apr 19, 2018)

Robyn8 said:


> I think he's planning to use braces and wooden posts in the corners.


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## Latestarter (Apr 19, 2018)

Looking great! Love the lambs.


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## Baymule (Apr 19, 2018)

Cute barn, you will really enjoy that. One of these days you will have all your fencing done--it will feel darn GOOD!! Nice looking lambs, are they ewes?


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## Mike CHS (Apr 19, 2018)

You actually had something ready for the lambs unlike some people (me being one) on the forum.  

It sometimes seems like it's always a catch up.


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## Robyn8 (Apr 20, 2018)

The lighter one is a ewe and the darker one is a wether.  This our first time raising them for 4-h.  We're learning lots!


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## Robyn8 (Apr 20, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> You actually had something ready for the lambs unlike some people (me being one) on the forum.
> 
> It sometimes seems like it's always a catch up.


It was a mad dash to get at least something ready for them.  My husband made me promise no more rushed animal housing.  Poor guy was really busting his butt to get it done.  The things you do for your kids (the lambs are our daughters 4-h project) lol.


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## Bruce (Apr 20, 2018)

I agree with DH, one rush job is enough. Some people like to do things right and going back to make it so is a PITA (and often doesn't get done).


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## Baymule (Apr 20, 2018)

Getting animals, then figuring out what to do with them is how I roll!  You mean to tell me that some people get all their fences up, barns built, coops, shelters, all the infrastructure, and THEN get animals?????


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## greybeard (Apr 21, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Getting animals, then figuring out what to do with them is how I roll!  You mean to tell me that some people get all their fences up, barns built, coops, shelters, all the infrastructure, and THEN get animals?????


Sure.

I don't know any of them but I've heard of them

Actually, we had 82 acres perimeter fenced and at least one cross fence up before the first 3 bred heifers ever set foot here, and increased that to 124 acres the next year.


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## Bruce (Apr 22, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Getting animals, then figuring out what to do with them is how I roll!  You mean to tell me that some people get all their fences up, barns built, coops, shelters, all the infrastructure, and THEN get animals?????


Only the ones that read the rules first


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## Baymule (Apr 22, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Only the ones that read the rules first


There are RULES???


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## Bruce (Apr 23, 2018)

Well, suggestions


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## Robyn8 (Apr 23, 2018)

Here are some updates pics.  We're planning to close up the gap in the front under to roof to keep stuff out but how much should we leave open for ventilation?  We have a 4 in soffit vent in the back and a 8 ft ridge vent on the top.  We also going to add gable vents.  Should we just leave another 4 in gap for a soffit vent in the front?


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## Robyn8 (Apr 23, 2018)

Oh and here are the baby goats we bought this weekend!  They are about 16 days old in these pics from this weekend.  We're planning to bring them home after our Memorial Day camping trip.


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## Bruce (Apr 23, 2018)

What kind of stuff are you trying to keep out of the goat house? I don't know goats but I would guess that like chickens, ventilation is important including in the winter. I think I'd screen the entire soffit.


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## Robyn8 (Apr 23, 2018)

Bruce said:


> What kind of stuff are you trying to keep out of the goat house? I don't know goats but I would guess that like chickens, ventilation is important including in the winter. I think I'd screen the entire soffit.


The back 4 in soffit we were going to screen.  But the front one is pretty big.  I was worried rain and snow will get in if we leave it open and just screen it.  But I guess we can leave the whole thing.  It's hard to see in the pic but it's a pretty huge gap under the overhang we have in the front.


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## Bruce (Apr 23, 2018)

How horizontal is your rain and snow?


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## Robyn8 (Apr 23, 2018)

Bruce said:


> How horizontal is your rain and snow?


The snow blows around a lot.


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## Bruce (Apr 23, 2018)

Yes but that high? We get a lot of drifting, and spots where the wind has blown the snow clear, but it is all at ground level. 

Are you talking about the side with the short overhang?


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## Robyn8 (Apr 23, 2018)

Bruce said:


> Yes but that high? We get a lot of drifting, and spots where the wind has blown the snow clear, but it is all at ground level.
> 
> Are you talking about the side with the short overhang?


Yeah I was talking about the side with the overhang.  But maybe you're right.  Maybe we don't need to close it in.


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## Latestarter (Apr 23, 2018)

I have to concur to screen it and leave it open. More ventilation is better. Oh, and I noticed you managed to get the moon in a couple of shots   You do know that your DH is going to need to replace that bent/damaged drip edge at the corner, right?  It looks awesome! He did a great job! The goats are going to love it.


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## Robyn8 (Apr 23, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> I have to concur to screen it and leave it open. More ventilation is better. Oh, and I noticed you managed to get the moon in a couple of shots   You do know that your DH is going to need to replace that bent/damaged drip edge at the corner, right?  It looks awesome! He did a great job! The goats are going to love it.


Ok maybe we'll just leave it open and screen it.  Probably easier!  We can always close it up later if we find rain and snow gets in.  Thanks for comments!


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## Bruce (Apr 24, 2018)




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