# HELP!  Need opinion on Disbudding  ***PICS***



## jmsim93 (Feb 19, 2012)

Hey Guys!  I decided to have my first kids disbudded by a vet so I could forgo the pain and expense of doing it myself the first time around.  He did a horrible job I think and I am wondering if I can go ahead and try again with a disbudding iron since the scurs are so small at this point?  This is my doeling, Sadie...Caesar, her brother looks pretty much the same.

OPINIONS???


----------



## SmallFarmGirl (Feb 20, 2012)

Mmmmm... You might be able too try again. I really don't know. He did DO A BAD JOB though.


----------



## poorboys (Feb 20, 2012)

I would re-do it. It won't hurt him, has he had a tetnus or cdt yet? you might want to give it to him before you burn him again.


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Feb 20, 2012)

Wow did he even hold the disbudding iron down? Please follow up with your vet.  I'd say he needs to know that A. he sucks at it, and B. he really should fix his mistake. (although after that I probably wouldn't let him put another hand on my goat..) I think with them that size you would probably have to band them. When the girl that came up and helped me with my 4 she did it 5 seconds, snipped the bud, and did it for 5 more seconds. It looks great. I have a 10 week old that was done by the 'breeder' at 2 weeks and when I got him they look horrible and are scurring. Were there copper rings around the horn bud when done? I dont even see where the missing fur should be from doing it.. How old was she when it was done the first time?

Okay now after looking at the pictures more did he try and surgically remove them? or use a disbudding iron? From the way the tips look it looks like they were cut out, like a scalpal on buds that havent broken the skin yet, with completely failed results.


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 20, 2012)

CrazyCatNChickenLady said:
			
		

> Wow did he even hold the disbudding iron down? Please follow up with your vet.  I'd say he needs to know that A. he sucks at it, and B. he really should fix his mistake. (although after that I probably wouldn't let him put another hand on my goat..) I think with them that size you would probably have to band them. When the girl that came up and helped me with my 4 she did it 5 seconds, snipped the bud, and did it for 5 more seconds. It looks great. I have a 10 week old that was done by the 'breeder' at 2 weeks and when I got him they look horrible and are scurring. Were there copper rings around the horn bud when done? I dont even see where the missing fur should be from doing it.. How old was she when it was done the first time?
> 
> Okay now after looking at the pictures more did he try and surgically remove them? or use a disbudding iron? From the way the tips look it looks like they were cut out, like a scalpal on buds that havent broken the skin yet, with completely failed results.


He surgically cut them out and then burned them.  He did shave the area slightly but the fur has already grown quite a bit.  They had it done at 2 weeks old.  I am VERY displeased!


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Feb 20, 2012)

Here's a pic of one of my disbudded babies. Just for a comparason pic of the iron vs. cutting. They're 2 weeks old and this was done last sunday at 1 week old.. Not even my 10 week old that scurred grew horns back that fast, I'm worried your little ones are going to get a full set of horns with no 'tips'. I'd say thats better then really bad scurs but I know thats not what you want. I dont know if messing with it now will make them worse either so just be careful on what you choose to do.  





By burning he probably just cauterized what he cut out to stop the bleeding. Has he done this procedure before? Did he tell you it might not take? If not I would be going in for a 'free' recheck. I've been all from a receptionist to an emergency tech in vets offices for the last 7 years and I'd say in this case I would be _that_ person. Its like going in for a spay and having a pregnant cat a couple weeks later. Like the sedate-shave-and-OOPS-forgot-to-spay from a spay/neuter clinic. Do you mind saying how much this cost you? Was this the only thing the vet did to the both of them?  Really I think it could be way worse, but this is definately not a properly disbudded goat!


----------



## DonnaBelle (Feb 20, 2012)

We botched a disbudding with a disbudding iron one of the first times we did it.  The buckling was around 4 weeks old by then.

I called our vet out, he just reburned over where we had not held the iron down long enough.

He is fine now, no horns.

I don't think your vet had an iron to disbud with.  We invested $100.00 in a Rhinehart 50.  It does a great job.

DonnaBelle


----------



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Feb 20, 2012)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> We botched a disbudding with a disbudding iron one of the first times we did it.  The buckling was around 4 weeks old by then.
> 
> I called our vet out, he just reburned over where we had not held the iron down long enough.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly but I feel as if I'm fueling a fire that isn't mine.    

Good to know it can potentially be 're'burned.


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 20, 2012)

He said that he had done "plenty" of them and that surgical was the better way to go.  He couldn't guarantee that they would not have scurs but it shouldn't be a problem.  He charged me $15 a piece.  I think I could have done a better job as a newbie with an iron!!!!  I really don't have the money to invest in an iron right now...SO FRUSTRATED!!!


----------



## Queen Mum (Feb 20, 2012)

Don't have the vet do it, take the kid to someone with a disbudding iron.   What can be done is burn off the buds and then hold the iron on the correct way over the buds.  My breeder did that when I brought a doeling in a bit late.


----------



## KinderKorner (Feb 20, 2012)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> Don't have the vet do it, take the kid to someone with a disbudding iron.   What can be done is burn off the buds and then hold the iron on the correct way over the buds.  My breeder did that when I brought a doeling in a bit late.


I agree. I have a friend who does it, she burns for 8 seconds. Cuts the bud off with sharp shears, burns 8 more seconds, and then burns the top of the bud. No problems. Scurs usally come from someone being too gentle.

After the first couple seconds they don't even feel it because it burns the nerves. 

Scurs are much worse, they break off and bled, and can get sharp. Ongoing problem.

Those babies need to be redisbudded with an iron right away before they get any bigger. That vet didn't do a good job at all. :/ As someone said before it looks like he just cut the tops off and burnt them to keep it from bleeding. In which case they will continue to grow into horns, they just won't be pointy. 

Good luck!


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 20, 2012)

I found someone with a disbudding iron that they are going to let me use.  I am nervous about doing it myself but I can't do worse than the vet!  Wish me luck!!!


----------



## hcppam (Feb 20, 2012)

Question on adult goats with scurs, can anything be done for them?


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 20, 2012)

Okay, so tomorrow I am picking up the disbudding iron.  I'm assuming I am going to heat it up and then fit it over the little horn and hold it down to the base of the horn (rocking in a circular motion?) until I get a copper ring?  Will the horn then pop off?  Will I need to snip it off?  Any help would be appreciated...


----------



## KinderKorner (Feb 20, 2012)

Yes you will 'rock' in a circular motion for about 8 seconds. Then I suggest getting some sharp scissors or even hoof trimmers and snip off the buds. Then reburn again for a few seconds. You'll want to apply a little pressure when burning, but not so much your burn a deep hole or anything. lol

The person who does ours burns the tops of the buds with the side of the iron when she is done. Shaving the hair before hand will help with the smell.

Goodluck!


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 22, 2012)

Well today my husband and I attempted to fix the botched disbudding the vet did.  I don't know if we did any better but we tried.  We had to snip the horn growth first and then we rocked the iron for 8 seconds in a circular motion.  We were able to pop off the bud and then we burned the top of the bud.  I hope we did it right.  Here are some pictures.  I think they are both right "hoofed" because they both have scratched the same side up.  They initially both looked the same but now with the scratching one side looks bad???  I just hope it took?  This was truly an ugly experience that made me sick to my stomach!  Next time I will shave the site to cut down on the smell!  













How do they look???


----------



## daisychick (Feb 22, 2012)

I think they look much better!  I really think you did a good job.   I hope that it takes and they don't end up with scurs because of the vet's bad job.


----------



## daisychick (Feb 22, 2012)

I have never disbudded but have watched as my friend did all of our babies and they looked just like that when done.    Maybe try changing your title of the thread so other people can come and give their opinions, since I am certainly not an expert.


----------



## KinderKorner (Feb 22, 2012)

I know it looks icky now, but it will heal and grow hair back over it.

I think you did a great job for your first time!

I can see where they have been scratching. Maybe put some blue kote on it, or aloe gel or something to keep it from getting infected or busting open.

If it does bust open and begins bleeding. (And trust me, it can bleed a LOT) You can apply steady pressure for a long time. (I'm talking probably 45 minutes) and put some blood stop powder on it. If that doesn't work a sure way to stop the bleeding is to just barely burn it again for a second or two. That seals it back up.

We've had a couple scratch their head on something and pop open their horn buds. I thought they were going to die the first time. I mean it was just running blood down their face. I applied pressure for over 30 minutes and then decided I had to reburn. Our friend that disbuds is 45 minutes away, and someone drove me to there while I held the baby with pressure. It was still bleeding when I got there and they burned it for a second and it was all over. If I had the disbudding iron at home it wouldn't have taken but a minute to fix. Instead I held pressure for close to an hour and a half. Head wounds are just like that. 

I hope they don't grow scurs. I'd say you did about as good as you could do. I'm glad you clipped the bud and burnt the top, that really helps I think.

And yes the smell is . I like to shave them so it's not so bad, but sometimes I forget or I'm too busy. Driving home in a closed car with 8 disbudded babies for 45 minutes with that smell is awful though.


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 22, 2012)

KinderKorner said:
			
		

> I know it looks icky now, but it will heal and grow hair back over it.
> 
> I think you did a great job for your first time!
> 
> ...


I'm sure you didn't stop for lunch!    Thanks for the encouragement!  I hope it turns out.  Unfortunately, I have another doe due in 3 days...and while I am excited, the thought of doing that again is kind of taking some of the joy out of it!  I guess I need to suck it up if I'm going to be in the goat business...


----------



## KinderKorner (Feb 22, 2012)

Is it possible the person you borrow the iron from could do it for you?

While I know I could do it myself I prefer to pay my friend to do it for me. She's great at it, and she'll do any babies I bring her for $20 or in exchange for some eggs or grain. 

I hate hearing their little screams and smelling burnt flesh. :/ The $20 is totally worth it for me. Plus I get a reason to go visit her.


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 22, 2012)

They used to be in the goat business years ago...I could ask them, but not sure what they would say.  $20 is a little high for me if Mary Jane has twins or triplets.  If she has a single it won't be bad.  I will feel more confident if these two don't grow scurs.  I just can't tell by the looks of them since I have never done it before.


----------



## KinderKorner (Feb 22, 2012)

Oh no no no. I meant I pay her $20 total. So I can bring her 20 babies and she'd do them all for $20. Not $20 a piece. 

If I only have a couple to do, I'll just give her a couple dozen eggs, or some goat milk soap.


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 22, 2012)

KinderKorner said:
			
		

> Oh no no no. I meant I pay her $20 total. So I can bring her 20 babies and she'd do them all for $20. Not $20 a piece.
> 
> If I only have a couple to do, I'll just give her a couple dozen eggs, or some goat milk soap.


I would DEFINITELY do it for $20!!!  I hated doing that today...I just hope I did it right.


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 23, 2012)

I was really nervous yesterday because both of the kids were acting very lethargic for most of the day yesterday.  The wanted NOTHING to do with me yesterday after "the event".  I'm happy to report they are both jumping around happy and friendly today.

How soon will I beable to tell if this was a successful disbudding?  How long will it take to know?


----------



## Chickenfever (Feb 23, 2012)

I think you'll know within a few weeks if you're going to get scurs.  BTW,  love your babies, I just love lamanchas!


----------



## jmsim93 (Feb 23, 2012)

Chickenfever said:
			
		

> I think you'll know within a few weeks if you're going to get scurs.  *BTW,  love your babies, I just love lamanchas*!


Thanks!  I am new to the breed...they are very sweet.


----------



## Jenski (Feb 25, 2012)

Too bad about the bad vet job, OP!  I called our local goat vet to ask about disbudding, and after talking with him a few minutes I was sure I would never let him touch my goats.

I have helped with disbudding on a professional goat dairy farm but have never worked the iron myself.  I strongly encourage anyone who has never done it to tag along with an expert for awhile before ever doing this to any of your own goats.  There are so many things that can go wrong!

This past week I was very fortunate to find a local, experienced goat person to disbud for me and teach me even more about the process.  She was well prepared with a Rhinehart X30, a Hoegger kid box, an ice gel pack, clippers, and good thick gloves.  She shaved the kids' heads, tested the iron on a wood block to make sure it was ready, and then did one light touch with the iron on each bud to mark position before doing the burn.  She counted out loud, as I have been taught to, so you can keep track and stay calm with an unhappy kid hollering underneath you.  In between sides she gently held the gel pack on the kid's head to quickly cool the skull down.

At the Saanen dairy they usually disbudded at around 5 days, if I recall.  My new goat mentor told me she won't do them after 14 days, especially bucklings, since you greatly increase the stress and likelihood of scurs.

Don't know if this has already been posted on this forum, but Fiasco Farm has some very helpful info on disbudding here - http://fiascofarm.com/goats/disbudding.htm


Hope that helps.  OP, I wish you luck with your little one!


----------

