# Where do I learn show and pre-show techniques? (cattle)



## amysflock (Jul 10, 2009)

I was heavily recruited last night to show our calves at the local Grays Harbor County Fair (two counties west of me) and since I couldn't think of a valid objection, it looks like I'm in!!!

So...having never done this before, I'm feeling a little anxious about a few things:

1) "Bathing" cattle - how the heck do I do that? And with what? Do they get blow dried and styled, or ??  (We are prohibitted by our national association from clipping anything but the bottom line since some big breeders have gone way overboard on that, so I'm not concerned about clipping...just the actual bath.)

2) How do I use a show stick, and how do I practice with one?

3) Do I need fancy halters or will the rope halters I'm using be sufficient?

4) What types of things do I need to bring with me besides hay and a garden hose (for the rest of the calves' 5-day stay there in the Beef Barn)? What types of things are good to have at my display table in the barn?

Thank heavens I have about a month before the big event...it's August 6th for the show and the calves will be there from August 5-9. Help!!!


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## Thewife (Jul 10, 2009)

Sorry Amy can't help ya there!

Are you only doing the Grays Harbor County Fair?


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 10, 2009)

amysflock said:
			
		

> I was heavily recruited last night to show our calves at the local Grays Harbor County Fair (two counties west of me) and since I couldn't think of a valid objection, it looks like I'm in!!!
> 
> So...having never done this before, I'm feeling a little anxious about a few things:
> 
> ...



If there is a fair between now and then with show cattle, see if you can get there and take a look around and observe what they have with but, also what they are doing. You can learn a great deal this way.

Good luck!


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## MReit (Jul 10, 2009)

amysflock said:
			
		

> I was heavily recruited last night to show our calves at the local Grays Harbor County Fair (two counties west of me) and since I couldn't think of a valid objection, it looks like I'm in!!!
> 
> So...having never done this before, I'm feeling a little anxious about a few things:
> 
> ...


Honestly I'm doing the same thing right now and restocking! lol You'll be fine and you can always ask your AG agent for the lowdown.


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## MReit (Jul 10, 2009)

1) "Bathing" cattle - how the heck do I do that? And with what? Do they get blow dried and styled, or ??  (We are prohibitted by our national association from clipping anything but the bottom line since some big breeders have gone way overboard on that, so I'm not concerned about clipping...just the actual bath.)For holsteins we just washed them with laundry soap (helped get with the white) and then let them dry on their own. Not sure about how to dry them with all that hair. 

They make special dryers, you can find them at Nasco.com...Honestly if you have an older vaccume that you can switch the hose to blow instead of suck, that would work also. The special blowers are super nice though


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## Imissmygirls (Jul 10, 2009)

The most important thing to do at this point is to brush them daily. Brushing will help remove old hair and bring a gleam to the hair that's left. 
Also get them used to walking on the show halter. 
Add a bottle of baby oil to your show kit to rub on those gorgeous horns and also their hoofs to make them shine. 
You are lucky you don't have to clip them!!
Blow dry against the grain of hair to fluff them and make them look beefier where you want them beefy.  Tease the tail hair and spray it with hair spray to keep the tease in it for show day. 
Oh, it's an art to making up a critter for the fair  I'd call the local Ag center and ask for any articles on fitting for the fairs.


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## MReit (Jul 21, 2009)

Just curious how your prepping is going??


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## m.holloway (Jul 21, 2009)

amysflock, have you ever checked out this site .24-7 agtv.com has alot of info on show and training I hope it helps


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## Pure Country (Jul 22, 2009)

This is off the NALF (limousin) website but should help.

http://www.nalf.org/programs/nalja/createwinnerfinal2003.pdf

http://www.nalf.org/programs/nalja/feedwinnerfinalJune2003.pdf


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## amysflock (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi, guys, and thanks for all the info. Preparation is going ok. I'm havin a hard time getting the calves to stop square with their feet, but will start using the show stick this afternoon. (I will start using their show halters this morning since they came in the mail.)

Annabel seems to have forgotten how to lead and be a lady, so she might need another session tied to the post in the yard to remember. T-Bone actually does pretty well, surprisingly, but he's kind of pokey.  I did learn really quick to tie one to a tree while practicing with the other, as Annabel followed right behind us during T-Bone's first session, butting him in the behind and running alongside (trying to get him in trouble, I think!). The little stinker!


I'm still quite nervous about the whole thing but grateful I have a couple weeks before the first show and then over a month after that to refine things for the next (big!) show at the State Fair. Whew. I'll check out those links, too...thanks!


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## m.holloway (Jul 23, 2009)

sounds like your off to a good start! Sara-lu and Reba did the same when in training. one at a time. With one tied. Stick with it. With all the advice and tips I got with this group. And I was new at everything. Still am. I never had a cow before in my life. County at heart City life though. But with this group Saralu came in 4th and Reba came in 5th for showing. First time too!!!!  Good luck and lots of fun!!!!!! Were doing it again this year. I just got their halter and lead line again. They are alot bigger this year and their old ones didn't fit.


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## MReit (Jul 23, 2009)

m.holloway said:
			
		

> sounds like your off to a good start! Sara-lu and Reba did the same when in training. one at a time. With one tied. Stick with it. With all the advice and tips I got with this group. And I was new at everything. Still am. I never had a cow before in my life. County at heart City life though. But with this group Saralu came in 4th and Reba came in 5th for showing. First time too!!!!  Good luck and lots of fun!!!!!! Were doing it again this year. I just got their halter and lead line again. They are alot bigger this year and their old ones didn't fit.


Thats really good placings for first time, Great Job!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 23, 2009)

MReit said:
			
		

> m.holloway said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree! 


Don't forget to teach them to setup according to where the judge is. We would have one person play judge and they would move around. Sometimes standing in the middle of the circle and sometimes the outside. I'm not sure how beef setup for the judge but, with dairy they had to have their hind legs postition with one back and one forward depending on if they were a heifer or cow and where the judge stood. Anyone? Does it work that way for beef or does she not have to worry about it?


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## m.holloway (Jul 23, 2009)

with our judges we had 2 differnt stand. one was 4 all straigth and the other was one of the hind leg alittle back then the other. Then they had to stand in a straight row one behind each other and finally side by side.  Always with their head high. not letting them put their heads down.


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## amysflock (Jul 23, 2009)

Ours are stopped square in a line (head to butt with space in between) and then lined up side by side, too. I just tried working with T-Bone and the show halter, and oh, what a fiasco. I haven't even tried the show stick yet.

I actually just emailed our association president to see if I can visit them and watch him work their calves for awhile, as I don't feel ready at all and think I need some help.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 23, 2009)

That sounds like a good idea.

Many don't like the show halter, at first. Just keep introducing it to him.


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## m.holloway (Jul 23, 2009)

when our fair comes to town we have a cattle camp and boy does that help. We go over what is going to asked and what they are looking for. It;s on fri,sat, sunday. the cattle stays at the fair grounds and the kids are there from 7 am till 9 pm. We wash, groom, walk them, practice the stands and have fun at the same time. We even have a guy come in and hoof trim of course at a price, but I think we get a fair deal. we also have contest and the kids get some really nice prize. Last year some one got a leather show halter and a groom kit for second place.


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## LavacaW (Jul 24, 2009)

Good luck and be sure to let us know how your cows did!  I just hate it when there is no feedback and we are all left hanging! :bun


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## amysflock (Jul 24, 2009)

I did end up going over to our to another breeder's place yesterday for a few hours, met his entire herd and got to practice leading a calf and a heifer, and got a few tips on things I can do differently. Overall it sounds like I'm doing things correctly, but probably went too fast on T-Bone yesterday trying to get that show halter on him so I'm rolling that back. I think instead I'll put it on the ground while he's eating his grain tonight and let him sniff it, and then see if I can lead him while the show halter is on my opposite arm. I did hear some "horror" stories about showing the other breeder's animals, including a 2-year old bull who threw a total conniption fit in the ring and still came in Reserve Champion Bull for that show! Amazing. As long as I and the calves don't get hurt (or hurt eachother) in this process, I think we'll probably be ok...I just need to practice more frequently and be more patient.


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## MReit (Jul 24, 2009)

Yeah some judges are crazy in my opinion. I mean I know they like a very alert animal, but some cattle in the ring just act wild and I don't think they would deserve a great placing, but do anyways. I've noticed that in beef judges much more then dairy. I've always had a problem keeping my animals awake in the ring because they get so relaxed, judges don't like that either..lol I can't help it they were comfortable/happy!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 24, 2009)

MReit said:
			
		

> Yeah some judges are crazy in my opinion. I mean I know they like a very alert animal, but some cattle in the ring just act wild and I don't think they would deserve a great placing, but do anyways. I've noticed that in beef judges much more then dairy. I've always had a problem keeping my animals awake in the ring because they get so relaxed, judges don't like that either..lol I can't help it they were comfortable/happy!


And they are suppose to be judging them on conformation in regular class. Not whether or not the critter wants to take out half the place!


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## amysflock (Jul 25, 2009)

Ours are judged as individuals against the breed standards, too, luckily for me! 

On a good note (while I'm dealing with chicken trauma), DH watched me practicing with T-Bone last night and noted it wasn't going well because T-Bone was strong arming me, throwing a fit and getting away, which he can because he's so dang big and strong. DH offered to try leading him, and then said he'd be happy to show him for me! YAY!!!

DH is SO patient, just made T-Bone practice with him all over the backyard for about 45 minutes, and we also laid the show halter on the ground and they walked passed it many, many times (although T-Bone wasn't happy about it, but got a little less spooky each time). It's amazing how much T-Bone leads when he knows he can't over power his handler (he tried, but DH is so strong from pulling cable as a logger that T-Bone just can't win!).

WHEW. Now I am free to focus more on Annabel and the rest of our fair preparations.


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## P0U1TRYP3RS0N (Jul 26, 2009)

amysflock said:
			
		

> I was heavily recruited last night to show our calves at the local Grays Harbor County Fair (two counties west of me) and since I couldn't think of a valid objection, it looks like I'm in!!!
> 
> So...having never done this before, I'm feeling a little anxious about a few things:
> 
> ...


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## Imissmygirls (Jul 26, 2009)

You have just learned the number one rule of cattle-showing: they will get away with whatever they can if you let them!
Obviously your boy has your number and knows it. You will have to learn the control techniques and use them relentlessly to gain his respect.
It IS possible for a lightweight person to control the big strong beast but you can't be afraid to exert control. Even the chains on the show halter are there for a reason: it exerts a strong impulse under the chin when yanked and obviously your big boy doesn't like it so he revolts. However, because it's a chain, it also releases the moment he releases HIS pressure. He needs to learn this. 
Let's face it, no cow wants to be tied initially. It goes against their nature. But they learn rather quickly that it doesn't hurt them to be tied unless they fight it.  Often they get to the point where they feel more secure being tied and/or with you. I've had more than one cow try to jump into my lap when it was scared at the fair. Mama means safety!
One tip: where the nose goes, the rest follows. Keep a VERY short lead on him- even to the point of your hand next to the nose band. ( Not inside,that's dangerous at this point) When he wants to take off, circle him, circle him ,circle him til he is touching his tail. ( Keep your balance by leaning on him; lean your body into his rear as you circle to keep you ON balance and throw him OFF balance)
He doesn't go anywhere with this tactic and eventually he gives up.
Watch his eyes for clues of his thoughts and make the nose go before he decides to take off.
You can also dig your  close elbow into his side right behind his front leg to gain leverage to turn him when circling. Use balance and leverage to control.
You aren't going to hurt him with any of this. He is bigger and stronger than you and he knows it. Be firm!
While I am on the stump: your attitude is likely more important than your actions. BE IN CHARGE. BELIEVE IN YOURSELF. YOU CAN DO THIS
It's really hard to get 8 yr old's believing they can control a couple hundred pound animal but they CAN! It's technique plus convincing the animal that they know what they are doing and can be trusted to know and take care!
I've often told my kids that their animals copied their attitudes. You cannot fool an animal. You have to BELIEVE in yourself.
I also encourage constant talking to the animal.  LEt them hear your voice and be firm, strong and encouraging never tentative. They are reading your tone, not your words.  You can swear a blue streak at them as long as your tone is strong and encouraging and POSITIVE. ( Try it sometime when you are frustrated! Swear at them in an encouraging positive tone. Gets your frustration out and they haven't a clue!)


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## amysflock (Jul 26, 2009)

Thanks, Imissmygirls, for the great information. I'm going to see if I can lead him successfully after DH breaks him a bit more, and I'll try (and have DH try) the circling technique while leaning into his rump.


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## Imissmygirls (Jul 26, 2009)

Amy, Let me be a bit more precise on the use of the show halter. Keep the chain under the chin fairly loose most times.  The use of the chain is a QUICK SNAP the precise moment the animal is about to take off and then an instant release. The idea is to get their attention and distract them totally about what they were thinking-- refocusing their attention on YOU.
This is a bit different than the rope halter where they will just follow you. You have to remember that at shows there will be strange distractions much of the time and that may cause panic until they are used to it. The snap against their chin refocuses them to you and your control.
Many times the cattle do not like the chain and will fight it. If this is the case, always keep it loose, but the animal must still obey you. Learn to reaad their actions. IF the chain itself is causing the panic, you can CAREFULLY put your hand in the noseband for control but I really really hesitate to recommend this to an inexperienced person.
Some animals (actually many!) learn to love shows and the attention and activity they present and really love to show off to the crowds. But initially all animals will want the security of MOM ( or DAD). A calf taken to the show adapts much better and will remember the next year.


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## Imissmygirls (Jul 26, 2009)

Another tip on body placement: It is really hard to visualize the animal while you are leading it. Can someone take digital pics to show you the rear and side views of the critter when you think you have it set up correctly?  It will help you relate what you see at the halter to what a judge sees.


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## MReit (Jul 27, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> Another tip on body placement: It is really hard to visualize the animal while you are leading it. Can someone take digital pics to show you the rear and side views of the critter when you think you have it set up correctly?  It will help you relate what you see at the halter to what a judge sees.


Great idea, it can be hard for a beginner to know when the feet are "under" the animal because stretching a mere 3-4" makes a huge difference in the stance of the calf.   only 5 more days till I ship to the fairs here..yikes! (making my lists and checkin them twice!)


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## Farmer Kitty (Jul 27, 2009)

Good luck to all of our fair goers!


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## amysflock (Jul 27, 2009)

Imissmycows, thanks for the clarification on the chain. I wouldn't have thought of that. T-Bone freaks out at the mere sight (and sound) of the show halter, so DH is working with him to get over that. I think he's going to put it on him tonight and see what happens, and I'll try Annabel, too.

Even though I know it's important, I may not mess with the show stick and foot placement for this first fair. My calves are the only two in their classes so they'll place anyway, and my next fair isn't for a month and a half, so we'll have more practice time. Annabel is learning to stop with her front feet under her pretty well, but always stops with one back foot behind. I don't even know how much DH has worked on foot placement with T-Bone (probably not much) but I'll mention it tonight.


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## Imissmygirls (Jul 27, 2009)

AMysflock, I'd put the show halter on loosely over the rope halter for a few days. Make sure it's adjusted properly: that can make all the difference in control. Fold/tie up the ends of it and just work the rope halter.
IMHO, a show stick is window-dressing. A welltrained animal can be handled by halter alone. What I often see is that pastured beefers are not as tame and handled as much as dairy and don't respond to the halter movement as well, so they need to touch with the show stick to move feet.
AS a beginner, I don't think you need the distraction of thinking " now what do I do with the stick."  Concentrate on the animal on the end of your halter until you feel what she will do before she knows it.

LOL It will take a season or two of fairgoing to train them, but by the time they get to be oldsters they will be showing YOU!  That's why you see little kids at the halters of old cows. Those cows know exactly what to do in the showring.


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## amysflock (Jul 28, 2009)

We did finally get the show halters on over the rope halters last night. T-Bone couldn't stand the sight of it and was playing hard to get, preferring to stay away from his grain bucket rather than be close to the halter. I got Annabel's on, though, just fine. T-Bone came over to her to get into her bucket (by force as usual) but when he saw that halter on her he backed away!! After a couple of minutes we were able to get his while he was tied to a post, and he didn't even fight it. We left it on overnight so they both could get used to the noise since that seems to be the biggest problem. We took the leather lead strap off, but we might try it today just to see what happens. DH wants to go fishing so he's trying to finagle working the calves twice today so he can leave early in the a.m. and come home late without me reminding him we missed a training day!! 

As for the show stick, I agree it might be a bit much for me, but I may try it with Annabel just to see what she does. She's doing pretty well now stopping with her front feet under her (I used my R foot under her to move her R foot forward, and she now does it on her own). They are both starting and stopping well with the rope halters, and neither has thrown a fit in two days, so there's progress!!


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## Imissmygirls (Jul 28, 2009)

APPLAUSE

Twice in one day is fine. They won't forget in 24 hours and your hubby will be easier to live with
Go easy on the show stick. They might spook at first with that, too. 
A stick can be used in herding cattle to make a person look larger in mass(size) to the animal. With a show stick, you don't want that interpretation at all.


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## amysflock (Jul 29, 2009)

I actually used a show stick yesterday at my friend's Highland farm to try and help corral one of her stubborn (and very smart) cows. I like my arms better, though...but will be very careful with how I move the show stick with the calves. Mine is a white stick so it's highly visible. I'm thinking if I walk with it next to my leg it might be less noticeable, and then I can try using it. What's the best approach to using it for the first time?


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## Imissmygirls (Jul 29, 2009)

You are so close to fair time that I would concentrate solely on halter and lead work. Around here beef aren't led that much, they mostly stand for show.
Walk a circle about the size of a showring (varies ~40 feet?) then pulling them into a lineup on a  diameter of the showring. Always try to face them uphill, never downhill. Around here we do have some fair showrings in a slant!
Concentrate on  stopping them into the right position and having someone take a pic or critique the way they are standing so you recognize the correct stance when you are at the lead. ( View is different when you are at lead-- you need to learn what looks right to the judge, not you.) Walk them , then stop them into position.  repeat, repeat, repeat.  Don't fuss when they are standing. Walk them away( or circle them) and repeat the stop instead.
Here it is acceptable if an animal is unruly to circle them tightly back out of a lineup and bring them up into the lineup in the same spot. Competitors should give each other enough room for this if at all possible.
Once you get to the fair, ask for help with the showstick.  There should be practice time to try out the showring late at night or during a lull in the program. There will be some comradery in the barn so don't be shy. 
Actually, most of the fun of showing is the friends you make in the barns!

oh... and around here they double-tie beef animals with a rope halter AND a neck collar at the fairs.  Not sure if that's the case everywhere. Personally, I seldom trust only halters as ties on any cattle.  I spent too many nights as chaperone chasing critters whose brandy-new halters loosened at the fair.  [Acceptable method of catching is to WAKE UP the owner sleeping on the straw and let THEM do it!]


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