# Disbudding baby goats, I HATE IT!!



## DonnaBelle (Apr 15, 2011)

We disbudded two this morning. A little buckling, 5 days old, and a doeling 7 days old.

We burned for 6-7 seconds, got a good burn on them, but a little bone was showing on the buckling.  Eeeeek!!

They were given 2 cc tetnus antitoxin before the procedure.

I don't know if I'll ever get "relaxed when I do this".

Anyway, I'm thinking I could use a shot of Tequila and it's only 10:00 am.

DonnaBelle


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## chandasue (Apr 15, 2011)

It really does suck. It's the part of goat keeping I dread the most but after having a vet do a butcher job on one I figured it wasn't worth that and I do a better job anyway.


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## gdana2 (Apr 15, 2011)

Thankfully my last doeling was polled.  Why can't all goats be polled?


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## ksalvagno (Apr 15, 2011)

I have been taking my kids to the vet to do the disbudding. I did do it last year and I will have to start up again but I know I will always hate doing it.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 15, 2011)

I just have to think that it hurts them to have it done...  one of the reasons why my herd keeps their horns. Another is the fact that, at the moment, we do not have a herd guardian... so having a herd with horns allows them at least that defense against the bear, coyote, wolves, mountain lions, chupacabra(spotted occassionally in NH), and loosed domestics.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 15, 2011)

If you have registered dairy goats (and plan to show or sell kids) keeping the horns isn't really an option.

I feel ya DonnaBelle, it sucks.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 15, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> If you have registered dairy goats (and plan to show or sell kids) keeping the horns isn't really an option.
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> I feel ya DonnaBelle, it sucks.


My herd is not registered.. the woman I got the from did not have papers or even info on the kids' sire or sires.   
On the selling note, I will say that my family has already recieved 4 requests for our horned kids(still waiting for them to be born  ). People in my neck of the woods(northern half of New Hampshire) prefer the horns for lead-ability and overall look. Most of the call is for land clearing and small milkers.
I would like to boost my herd's status by bringing in a registered buck... but if that means that he would be poled or disbudded, then I can't, for his safety.


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## Okie Amazon (Apr 15, 2011)

chandasue said:
			
		

> but after having a vet do a butcher job on one I figured it wasn't worth that and I do a better job anyway.


No kidding.  We lost one of our first two bucklings either to tetanus or the vet frying his brain, not sure which. There was NO sign of a nice "copper ring" just huge burnt black wounds bigger than a fifty-cent piece. We'll be doing our own babies this next year!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 15, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

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If you keep registered goats and plan to sell registered kids.  I'm not suggesting you can't sell unregistered kids with horns.  You might even find the odd buyer who wants to pay for a registered dairy goat (as pet or home milker) but keep the horns.  Those who show (dairy) horns aren't allowed and those who don't show but plan to sell registered kids will still be stuck disbudding since buyers who plan to show or have other registered stock won't have horned goats.  I hate disbudding, just as DonnaBelle said.  But not doing it isn't an alternative in my situation and may not be in DonnaBelle's either.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 15, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

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I understand. It rots that shows don't allow the goats to be shown in their natural condition. It is like the breeds of dogs that have to have their tails docked in order to fit the breed standards.  (  )
Hopefully, one day, the people who prefer all natural goats will fight(and win) to make it open/okay for the natural appearance too.
_*Edited to add:*_ _Note for those who disbud for protection from goring: I plan on capping my herd's horns{like what is done with bull & oxen horns} to prevent this._


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## mossyStone (Apr 15, 2011)

i hate the thought of disbudding. Can't do it.. But i have a no horn policy here and have found a gal who does the deed for me at a small cost... This works for us....


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## jodief100 (Apr 15, 2011)

I currently have a 2" cut under my eye and a nice shiner to go with it from a buck's horns.   Came within 1/4"  of having the sharp end of a kiko goat's horn in my eyeball.  Remember this when you have to disbud.  It will make the job much more tolerable.

Makes me rethink leaving mine with horns, though meat goats are the opposite of dairy.  They need horns to be shown.


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## RockyToggRanch (Apr 15, 2011)

I also found someone close by that does them  They have over 100 healthy goats (no sick ones). I paid the vet last yr and had to leave them there all day with no food...and ended up with bad scurs on all of the bucklings. I paid $10. a kid this yr and they look great. I know it's early yet, but I have hope.

I watched it done and it didn't seem as bad as I thought. The kids were just fine afterwards. Quick ride over there...1/2 hour to do 6...(lots of gabbing in between)...quick ride back.


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## sunfisher (Apr 15, 2011)

This is gonna sound silly but can you put some sort of little cap on the end of the horn.. that is silly gaots with horn caps..they would probibly knock them off as soon as you put them on  has anyone tried this? My 8 year old daughter asked me about it the other day then ran away laughing


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## DonnaBelle (Apr 15, 2011)

I have a rescue goat with horns.  When the farrier came out to do the horses, he trimmed her hooves.  He also said he could cut down the tips of the goat horns to the place where the blood supply starts.  He did that and now she doesn't have sharp horns!!

I don't know about a cap, but your daughter had a good idea.  I tried tennis balls on the ends but she promptly knocked them off!!

Maggie is my goat that was on a dog food diet til I got her.  Yep, her owner down the road from us was feeding her dog food when he fed his lab.  That and a few branches was her diet.

I had her fecal run by our vet and she had no worms.  No worms in dog food I guess. LOL.

DonnaBelle


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## goatsintheopen (Apr 15, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> I just have to think that it hurts them to have it done...  one of the reasons why my herd keeps their horns. Another is the fact that, at the moment, we do not have a herd guardian... so having a herd with horns allows them at least that defense against the bear, coyote, wolves, mountain lions, chupacabra(spotted occassionally in NH), and loosed domestics.


that is the reason my goats all have their horns... a friend of mine had two goats that were killed by dogs, they didn't have horns.. at least if the goats did have horns they could of had a fighting chance.    (_Chupacabra..LOL!!_)


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## greenfamilyfarms (Apr 15, 2011)

Well... we have 2 dairy "teenagers" that are disbudded. Then, we were able to get preemie twin doelings. By the time I realized they were not disbudded, it was too late. So, those 2 are going to be horned. :/ But, that's ok... I don't plan on showing goats anytime soon anyways. They are just my babies right now.


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## sunfisher (Apr 15, 2011)

DonnaBelle..Is it hard to trim the ends of the horns?  We are getting 2 pygmy does May 1st and its to late to disbud them. I'm going to breed them next year and use their kids for 4-H..They have to be disbudded.

My daughter is 8 and I worry about goats with horns around children. We have had lots of talks about respecting the horns! I'm lucky cause we have 6 more acres to fence in so I could seperate the goats with horns from the ones without and ask the children to stay away from the horned goats unless an adult is around.


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## helmstead (Apr 15, 2011)

Not that I have ANY problem with horned goats...but - leaving their horns in the hope that it will give them 'weapons' with which to defend themselves from predators is a false sense of security.  I know several horned goats that have died or been BADLY wounded by _dogs_...small to medium neighborhood _dogs_.

The horn caps - take a tennis ball, cut it open, fill it FULL of liquid nails (seriously) and cap the horn.  Use duct tape to hold it on long enough for the liquid nails to dry.  Holds quite awhile...


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## sunfisher (Apr 15, 2011)

helmstead.. Thats a really good idea. I can see it now my daughter will want to buy pink or purple tennis balls or both! People will drive by and be like did you just see those goats horns    We will have the most stylish goats in the county


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## GrowURown (Apr 15, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Not that I have ANY problem with horned goats...but - leaving their horns in the hope that it will give them 'weapons' with which to defend themselves from predators is a false sense of security.  I know several horned goats that have died or been BADLY wounded by _dogs_...small to medium neighborhood _dogs_.
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> The horn caps - take a tennis ball, cut it open, fill it FULL of liquid nails (seriously) and cap the horn.  Use duct tape to hold it on long enough for the liquid nails to dry.  Holds quite awhile...


THIS is news to me - about the liquid nails part...and we have one that came with horns that may get it as a "just in case"....and the chupacabra...made me laugh!  Friends at work call me that and laugh at me because I milk the goats...I AM THE CHUPACABRA!  And because my wife made me a sucker by bringing them home   But yeah...the whole makes me msierable with the disbudding...but we are doign it tomorrow...wish us luck...hairy scary stuff for such tiny little things...


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 15, 2011)

goatsintheopen said:
			
		

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Okay, I am missing something... I can't think of why chupacabra would be funny... 


While clearly the animal has gotten a bad rap as some evil creature out to suck the blood from goats, the animal *has* been seen by various people(disregard the pics on google of red foxes w/ mange).


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## Roll farms (Apr 15, 2011)

I don't have a problem disbudding.  I do it at least 100 times a year or more.  
I am the local 'crazy goat lady'....

If you (the 'you' being general, not singling anyone out) want your goats to have horns, great...more power to you.  
But please do not imply that those of us who disbud are cruel / wrong / evil / bad goat owners.

I don't like to see a 200# animal lay into a 100# animal w/ extra hardware.  Goats fight.  Taking horns out of the equation takes a lot of the injury potential away.  I will NOT lose another doe to a horned buck.  Watching her die was cruel.

To each their own, do as you like w/ your animals...but don't judge how I deal w/ mine, please. 

I think I saw Big Foot walking his chupacabra the other day....


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## GrowURown (Apr 15, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I think I saw Big Foot walking his chupacabra the other day....


That wasn't bigfoot and a chupacabra...it was ME milking our raggedy goats!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 15, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

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## GrowURown (Apr 15, 2011)

Laugh all you want...I just don't want to be hunted down and autopsied on the history channel on that show....what is...monster quest!  Nope...just trying to put out the word ...DON'T SHOOT! I am NOT bigfoot!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Apr 15, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

> Laugh all you want...I just don't want to be hunted down and autopsied on the history channel on that show....what is...monster quest!  Nope...just trying to put out the word ...DON'T SHOOT! I am NOT bigfoot!


I'll remember that next time I drive through Texas!!


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 15, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I don't have a problem disbudding.  I do it at least 100 times a year or more.
> I am the local 'crazy goat lady'....
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> If you (the 'you' being general, not singling anyone out) want your goats to have horns, great...more power to you.
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I know that I do not think poorly of anyone that disbuds. I know that some people have no choice, others prefer not to get gored, or for their animals to get gored. I will second your request (To each their own, do as you like w/ your animals...but don't judge how I deal w/ mine, please.)

I will also make the reminder of Rule 5.


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## goatsintheopen (Apr 15, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

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  cause I was thinking it was Urban Legend like the Big foot.. thought you were being funny..didn't mean any harm at all.. though,I am getting a kick out of the other posts making light of it too..  FUNNY STUFF.


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## GrowURown (Apr 15, 2011)

Some days you just gotta laugh a little...we lost a very dear friend this week, the last few days have been bad ones at my house...today we have been laughing for a change...sorry...didn't mean to take the topic and run with it like that, but I JUST COULD NOT STOP!  And the guys at work REALLY do call me "the chupacabra"   ...they somehow think it's a joke that a grown welder man like myself comes to work in a hard hat talking about milking dairy goats - apparently that's not a very masculine hobby where they are from....IF ONLY they knew HOW HARD it REALLY IS...they'd change their tune...until then I guess I am the chupacabra...


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## goatsintheopen (Apr 15, 2011)

GrowURown said:
			
		

> Some days you just gotta laugh a little...we lost a very dear friend this week, the last few days have been bad ones at my house...today we have been laughing for a change...sorry...didn't mean to take the topic and run with it like that, but I JUST COULD NOT STOP!  And the guys at work REALLY do call me "the chupacabra"   ...they somehow think it's a joke that a grown welder man like myself comes to work in a hard hat talking about milking dairy goats - apparently that's not a very masculine hobby where they are from....IF ONLY they knew HOW HARD it REALLY IS...they'd change their tune...until then I guess I am the chupacabra...


  Sorry to hear about your friend.  I agree some days, yep, you DO gotta  laugh..  Your posts ARE funny LOL  and I LOVE your sig!  ROTFL 

Back to the original topic:

.. I couldn't dehorn myself....the way our whether screamed when we took his goathood..  WOW!  that was bad enough..but to hear a Kid scream or to smell burning fur or skull...  no thank you!  I can't imagine that is any kind of fun.   You're a stronger person than me for sure.


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## RainySunday (Apr 15, 2011)

goatsintheopen said:
			
		

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...I wouldn't recommend dehorning yourself...


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## Roll farms (Apr 16, 2011)

nurturingnaturally said:
			
		

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Me either!  It's a safe bet you're polled.


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## redtailgal (Apr 16, 2011)

...............


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## RabbleRoost Farm (Apr 23, 2011)

I brought a buckling out to a university learning instructor's farm blah blah whatever... Back on topic. Disbudding iron was broken (held together with popsicle sticks and electrical tape, wouldn't even get warm) so she put him in the box to simulate the experience for us and boy did he SCREAM!! Who would have thought just getting your head caught in a hole was such a traumatic experience? All he did was yell as the lid was closed and then she put the cold iron on his head and we got the same amount of screaming. I'm convinced that they scream because they're caught as well as the hurt that's happening to them.

I'm not delusional, I know it's painful getting a nine hundred degree thing shoved on your head, but they aren't yelling solely because of the burn.

I think it's more of a cauterization to the horn growth part than it is an actual burn to the head, unless for some reason you go down to the bone anyway (OUCH!!!).


Even though if a dog or other animal wanted to kill a goat it would have no problem, regardless of horns, I'm more worried over my own goats getting gored by their herdmates on a daily basis than I worry over a dog breaking into my fences. Really there's no surefire way to keep animals out, but if you have as secure an area as possible you have less chance of any problems (regarding predators) appearing than you do with horn wounds. At any rate, I do like that other people feel the same as me, as in "Don't call my practices cruel and I won't call yours unsafe" etc.
I'm just saying - the way one goat uses her horns (her sharp, pointy horns that I HAVE dulled by clipping the very tip off) in a tearing and ripping and goring motion in the other goats' stomach region, I worry over what could happen.

Seriously, every time I go out to the barn and I don't see my underdog goat immediately I freak out until I can double check by sight that she hasn't been gored open. Especially if she's yelling at me for food like she always is anyway because it sounds - to me - that she's moaning in pain. I'd prefer to not have to worry about that ALL THE TIME if you know what I mean. :/


PS: I got queasy when I finally did get Buckshot done (in front of a big class of people no less) because of the vast amount of smoke and the burnt smell... And my own fears of what would happen. My first time was ...scary to say the least. He's a happy go lucky little goat with no lasting problems regarding the disbudding though, so maybe I was worried over nothing, seeing as the instructor had done it many times before. I wish it didn't have to be done. If there was a way to never have to worry about horns but still keep them, I'd be the first to try it. If this is tl;dr, then in short - I love horns, I think they're beautiful and pretty cool looking too, but I don't like the effects from them.


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## DonnaBelle (Apr 23, 2011)

Just an update, we did another one this morning.  My favorite so far, a little black doeling with her grandmother's sweet, sweet disposition.  

I have  fantastic disbudding box DH built me, it works great, holds them very stable.  

I think we got a good burn on her, I waited until she was about 8 days old as she was small when born.  

I still don't like doing it, but I don't want goats with horns.  We have one that does have horns.  She's my rescue goat Maggie.  She's got them, and she knows what they are for.  Since she's somewhat of a loner, (she was raised alone) she tends to stay by herself to the edge of the herd.

But if she gets it in her head to be difficult, she definately starts to lower her head and use those horns.  I am very careful around her.  She likes my husband so I have him deal with her. 

DonnaBelle


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## RabbleRoost Farm (Apr 23, 2011)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> Just an update, we did another one this morning.  My favorite so far, a little black doeling with her grandmother's sweet, sweet disposition.
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Same with Tansy. Maybe I worry too much, but she definitely goes straight for another goat's soft belly with her sharp horns when they get on her nerves. Which is like... all the time. She's a brutal herd queen. I think if the herd consisted of more than two adults it would work better, but what do I know? I'll feel a lot more comfortable if her horns ever curl around so they don't have such a point on them, but the way they're going it looks like they may just stick out off the back of her head and flare out slightly at the ends. Did I mention she's a grade? 

I was thinking of putting a piece of Pex tubing on the tips with those metal pipe clamp things so they aren't sharp... I read in Mother Earth News (don't judge me, I might be a hippie and don't even know it!) that someone used a flexible pipe like that on their doe's horns but left it in one piece and bent it so it was like an arc so she could no longer get her head caught in the fence. Or tennis balls, but that sounds infinitely dorky to slap on a goat. 
Not that a big ol' piece of red or blue flexible plastic piping would look a whole lot better really.


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## Goatmasta (Apr 24, 2011)

I don't mind disbudding at all.  It takes longer to shave their little heads and putting them in the box than it does to burn them.  Besides we do much worse to our human boys when they are babies.  And even though I know it hurt and I must have screamed my head off, for the life of me I do not remember it at all......


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## lirette (Apr 24, 2011)

Hey Donna, you ever need help just holler. I don't mind disbudding at all. I just did 2 of mine. The little guy who can't walk yet and one that was way over due. I also have a new buck that I can tell the previous owner missed, so I will be re-doing soon. I have also cut off full grown horns.  Not that I would recommend it, but we did. We used a horn saw then burned. Just got to be careful because of the sinus cavity. Removing horns and burning is not my problem.... Kidding is my problem. It makes me axious. I hate to have to assist in deliveries. I always pray real hard for no problems.


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## ~*MissouriSweetpea*~ (Apr 25, 2011)

Yeesh! Stronger people than me!  

I had a small herd of pygmies a few years back. 2 came with horns (bought as adults) and the babies were already disbudded when I got them, so I never had to deal with it. 

Both of my horned goats knew they had horns. The buck for sure liked to use his. He would ram the fence (or aim at us if he got frustrated with us - too slow getting his food, etc). Such a pain. The doe was a firm queen and would push the others away (especially if they tried to eat in HER spot), but didn't use the horns and was super gentle with us. 

I see both sides of the de/horned debate. It would be great to let them be in their natural state, but I worry about children and other goats being at risk from them. That said,  I guess I need to learn how to do it, but want to watch someone do it several times first.


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## rebelINny (Apr 25, 2011)

I hate disbudding too. I just recently did my first four. Three were done the same day a couple of months ago. One has one stunted horn, one has two stunted horns, and the other ( a buckling) I had to do twice and he just has two horn nubs but they haven't grown anymore. I did my fourth a few minutes ago and I think I got his good. Here's hoping.


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## TigerLilly (Apr 28, 2011)

RabbleRoost Farm said:
			
		

> Even though if a dog or other animal wanted to kill a goat it would have no problem, regardless of horns,* I'm more worried over my own goats getting gored by their herdmates on a daily basis than I worry over a dog breaking into my fences.* Really there's no surefire way to keep animals out, but if you have as secure an area as possible you have less chance of any problems (regarding predators) appearing than you do with horn wounds. At any rate, I do like that other people feel the same as me, as in "Don't call my practices cruel and I won't call yours unsafe" etc.
> *I'm just saying - the way one goat uses her horns (her sharp, pointy horns that I HAVE dulled by clipping the very tip off) in a tearing and ripping and goring motion in the other goats' stomach region, I worry over what could happen*.


Same here. I've already felt the horns a few times; luckily no skin has been broken--on me.  And the way they go for the underbelly on each other aint no joke!
I'm one of the wimps that cant do the disbuddig myself, so I pay someone to do it for me and I do it gladly! I'd rather not even be around when it's done, but it doesn't take that long & she'd be done before I was back in the car.


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## GLENMAR (May 11, 2011)

I am going to pick out my first goat kids this weekend. I am going to learn how to disbud them at the same time. :/

Goat class: Here we come.


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## RabbleRoost Farm (May 11, 2011)

I'm flipping grateful that my keeper kids have been disbudded, since tonight I got such a delightful stab in the back of the leg as Tansy tried to beat the new goats and I tried to keep her off them... A nice long trail of pain and soreness along with what I'm sure will become a beautiful bruise. :/
Too bad the buck has horns. At least my does won't be trying to kill eachother with their stabby appendages now that they don't have any. I'm only putting up with Tansy until she gives me a doeling out of the (soon to be) registered buck, then I'm going to have to do something with her before she learns how to kill another.

Someone was recently selling their goat because she had killed two other herdmates and was now living alone... I'm sorry, that doe would be dead, and quickly, if she had been mine and was being THAT aggressive. How could anyone just pass on a problem that severe to the first person with cash? I feel sorry for the girls she attacked; that's no way to go. 

Edit: Even the scur horn on my other doe Cinnamon can be pretty painful, have learned that as well when she mistakenly beat me instead of the buckling belonging to the herd queen. She's trying to get a place higher than him, but hitting me by accident doesn't help.

Edit again: Why am I always directly in the line of fire when my goats decide to wield their daggers?
Must... Stop... Cuddling and hugging... Goats!


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