# how do I tell if they are overweight? [pics added]



## Vickir73 (Jul 31, 2012)

I've wormed them and their coats are looking MUCH better and they appear to have gotten some well needed nutrition - but how do I tell when I need to back down on their feed?  Momma Goat - nursing 1 1/2 month old twin bucks is getting about 10-12 cups per day (sometimes I take her before she is finished because she takes so dang long on the stand) and Daisi (FF - nursing  almost 2 month old buck) gets about 12 cups.  Daisi (never freshened) gets between 2-4 cups a day.  But I've been looking at them the last couple of days and they are starting to look plump.  I can tell a difference in Momma Goat's back bone - it's not as boney as it was and her ribs are as bare as they were - but . . . .


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jul 31, 2012)

Some pictures would be great. If there were pictures it would be very easy and only take a sec to figure everything out.  Also what kind of goats are they, how old are they, how much do they weigh?  btw 10-12 cups is pretty crazy unless you are on a dry lot and they have nothing else top eat.


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## Vickir73 (Jul 31, 2012)

I'll try to take some pics this evening and post tomorrow.  It will depend on the amount of light (I don't get home from work until 7:30).  They are Nubian crosses (no idea what the cross is - but they've got some blue in their eyes??)  Momma Goat is 2 years 4 months old - 2nd freshening (am I spelling that correctly?), Daisi (and Dafni) is 1 year 3 months old.  When I got them (May 2012) they were pregnant but their coats were very dull and coarse and they weren't getting any feed only a small sized area that was eaten down.  After they dropped their kids, Daisi seemed to improve, but Momma Goat got sick (fever, diarrhea) and after she recovered seemed to just droop and coat got courser and she seemed more run down and seemed to be losing weight instead of gaining.  This week she gets her third round of Ivomec. This has helped tremendously!!!!  Her coat is shiny and softner and I can feel some "meat on her bones" now, but how do I tell when to cut back?  Momma Goat weighs (per weight tape) 135 lbs, Dafni about 100 lbs, and Dafni less than 100 (but I can't remember off hand and my record book is at home - and also, Dafni is quite a bit smaller than her twin sister (Daisi) and I don't know if it's because she's got some Drawf in her (blue eyes) or if it's because her previous owners said she almost died at birth and they had to fight to keep her alive)

I'll get some pics this afternoon.


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## Chris (Aug 1, 2012)

It is really hard to have a milking goat get fat or over weight wile milking. All there food go's into producing more milk.
I would say that the "plumpness" that you are seeing is just the rumen working properly. 
As for the doe, '' Dafni ", Did the previous owner say she had a dwarf breed in her? I ask this because, just because she has Blue eyes doesn't mean she has a dwarf breed in her. Both Fainting and Angora goat can carry the Blue Eye Gene and neither are a dwarf breed.  


Chris


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## Vickir73 (Aug 1, 2012)

Momma Goat 1









Momma Goat 2 -yes, she has a blown (and double teat)








Daisi 1





Daisi 2 (it was already getting dark when I was able to take this)





Dafni 1 (she would not stand still)








Dafni 2








And here's my Pikachu just for fun









Now that I look at the pictures, they look kinda skinny to me.  In and in the one pic it looks like I'm pressing down on her back but I wasn't.  I was just about to reach over and try to place her legs when he took the picture - and these are NOT show goats. Yes, they have faults, but they also don't know how to "assume the pose" 

And the previous owner didn't know what they were missed with, she just assumed Dwarf.  I'd like to breed her, she still just seems so small.


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## dhansen (Aug 1, 2012)

They look thin to me.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Aug 1, 2012)

Yeah they do seem pretty thin, esp. because they are getting that much food. Couple things. 1. Do they need wormed and if they have been already what kind was it? 2. If they have been wormed already and they are eating that much food and still that thin, then you might want to check for mites. If they have mites then the mites could be sucking the blood from them and keeping their weight down, even with that much food. Some of it might also be that the are in milk so they do need increased feed.


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (Aug 2, 2012)

Also, what kind of feed is it? Is it dense in nutrition and calories, or just filler to keep their bellies full? They're definitely not emaciated, but not nearly as heavy as they should be with that much feed.


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 2, 2012)

I agree.  They are dairy goats and their build is naturally a little more lean looking, but they seem like the could use just a tad more weight on them (not much from what I can see in the pics but a few pounds more).

x2 on what StrawHat said on the worming and such.  That would be the first place to start.  What do they eat besides the feed?


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## Vickir73 (Aug 2, 2012)

Momma Goat gets her 3rd dose of Ivomec this week and Daisi and Dafni get their second dose.

I am feeding Purina Goat Show (16% protein), Sweet mix (12% protein) (but only because they are eating so much Goat Show I have to do something different (and they seem to like it better - duh - it's got more sugar in it and alfalfa pellets.  I'm mixing it this way:  Up until a few days ago Dafni and Momma Goat were eating 12 cups each per day (4 cups of Goat Show, 1 cup of Sweet Mix, 1 cup of alfalfa pellets) on the stand and Dafni was getting 3-4 cups per day (1 cup of Goat show with a 1/2-1 cup of Sweet Mix and Alfalfa mixed together).  The boys were getting 3 cups (1 1/2 cups of Goat Show and 1/2 cup of Sweet mix and 1 cup of alfalfa pellets).

The last couple of days I have been mixing everything together and feeding them in the main feeder - 8 cups of Goat Show - 4 cups of Sweet mix and 4 cups of alfalfa.  

I'm very uncomfortable with feeding them all together in the main feeder (I feel like I'm neglecting them), so I'm going to feed individually in the mornings and put feed in the main feeder in the evening and see how that works.

They also get 2 flakes of hay a day (or more or less depending on how much the eat) and are on about 60 X 40 (and we will be doubling that this weekend).  I've noticed since I've started worming them their coat is getting shiner and softer so maybe I just haven't given them enough time to start putting weight back on since worming? (They had never been wormed and I think Momma Goat was pretty bad off by the time I figured out what was wrong.)


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## SheepGirl (Aug 2, 2012)

Can you body condition score them?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Aug 2, 2012)

Her goats look to be about a 2.5. It is to hard to learn how to determine their BCS without having a good amount of knowledge about it and either watching videos or having someone show you how to determine it. So if you can not figure it out don't worry about it, Vickir. Pictures can not teach it as well as being shown.


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## SheepGirl (Aug 3, 2012)

I would have to disagree. Determining body condition scores is very easy...you can study diagrams and read books and learn what each score is if you don't have somebody to teach you. The diagram I posted tells you how to determine BCS and what to look for.

They are not close to ideal (3), even as a dairy goat IMO. If you look at the pictures of the goats, you can very easily see the transverse process, which looks rounded more so than protruding. Plus their spines are noticeable, even from the back. I can make out ribs in some of the pictures, which leads me to believe they have no to little fat cover. While 'dairy character' is a thin/lean animal, I personally think that her goats are at 1.5s or 2s, which still is a little too thin for a dairy animal. But it's nothing a little feed can't fix


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## TGreenhut (Aug 3, 2012)

Vickir73 said:
			
		

> Momma Goat gets her 3rd dose of Ivomec this week and Daisi and Dafni get their second dose.
> 
> I am feeding Purina Goat Show (16% protein), Sweet mix (12% protein) (but only because they are eating so much Goat Show I have to do something different (and they seem to like it better - duh - it's got more sugar in it and alfalfa pellets.  I'm mixing it this way:  Up until a few days ago Dafni and Momma Goat were eating 12 cups each per day (4 cups of Goat Show, 1 cup of Sweet Mix, 1 cup of alfalfa pellets) on the stand and Dafni was getting 3-4 cups per day (1 cup of Goat show with a 1/2-1 cup of Sweet Mix and Alfalfa mixed together).  The boys were getting 3 cups (1 1/2 cups of Goat Show and 1/2 cup of Sweet mix and 1 cup of alfalfa pellets).
> 
> ...


It's gotta be worms. If they hadn't been wormed before that's what probably caused the loss of weight. This sounds just like what was happening with my doe when I first bought her. I was feeding her a ton but she wasn't gaining any weight. She was probably a score of 1.5 to 2 for awhile. I even wormed her multiple times with chemical wormers. But then I found out that she was wormed with the same type of wormer _all_ her life so her body had built up resistance to that wormer. As soon as I figured this out I started her on an herbal wormer (Molly's Herbal Worm Formula Kit) because there isn't any sign of worms being able to build up resistance to this herbal wormer (and in my opinion, herbal wormers are more desirable than chemical ones for many reasons- read more about them here: http://www.fiascofarm.com/herbs/mollysherbals.php/categories/worm-formula-detailed-information). Right away the worms were flushed out and GONE and she is putting on weight so quickly now! 

So maybe the wormer you just used is going to make ALL the difference because they needed to be wormed and your goats are gonna start putting on weight! But if your goats don't look like they are putting on any weight within a few weeks, I would consider using an herbal wormer because that really worked for me!

I wish you the best of luck!


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 3, 2012)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> Her goats look to be about a 2.5. It is to hard to learn how to determine their BCS without having a good amount of knowledge about it and either watching videos or having someone show you how to determine it. So if you can not figure it out don't worry about it, Vickir. Pictures can not teach it as well as being shown.


x2


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## Vickir73 (Aug 3, 2012)

Thank you SheepGirl!!!! I would say at first Momma Goat was a 1, but now that she's been wormed, she's at least a 2.  Dafni and Daisi are a 2, but still need 2 more rounds of Ivomec.  This was VERY helpful!! Thank y'all so much.  I will finish the rounds with Ivomec and continuing with the feed schedule I'm on and once I feel that are at a 3, I'll level off the feeding and reduce as needed.  

They were pregnant (and never wormed) when I got them and then when Momma Goat kidded, I think she was just overcome with worms-she became skin and bones. I know they get skinny after kidding, but she was really, really bad.  I'm glad I found this site and began worming when I did 'cause I'm pretty sure I would have lost her.  

Thank y'all! Thank y'all!! Thank y'all!!


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