# How long until recovery begins???



## GoatRancher11 (Dec 12, 2011)

Guys,

Had a few young doelings with diarreahea today and one in particular seemed very weak although she was very anxious to eat corn with the others when I got to the farm this afternoon.  I was very surprised to see all that today when I got out there but let me break down the facts of the last day or so some of you experts can break it down for me.  Then I'll tell you what I did that will hopefully mend everything and begin a positive cycle in knocking everything out.

Yesterday afternoon I gave my goats (24=19 doelings and 5 does..........all purebred Kikos) a very small amount of acorns, I mean small amount compared to what I have given them before AND I do know that large amounts can be toxic if too many are ingested.  I give them those sometimes when I'm throwing them corn and yesterday was hay day as well for them and my donkey.  Anyway, long story short, had some diarrehea out there today and one week doeling.  The acorns didn't dawn on me at first but I did get 50lbs of feed from tractor supply that is a Coccidia preventative and I put that out there in their tubs and they went after it pretty hard.

Also, I have never had to worm them but with the doeling in question's jaw sagging just a tad, I immediately thought barber pole possibly so I got some dry dewormer (maybe Manna or something like that?) and I put it out there for them as well in a separate tub.  Hopefully I didn't overdo it but the little doeling did have some of both feeds.  I made sure all water tubs were pristine as always and they are not overcrowded b/c of plenty land.

Questions:

#1  What in the heck is going on?

#2  Does it sound like I did the rigth thing?

#3  How long will it take for possible acorn poisoning to cycle out?

#4  What about the diarrehea?  How long for that to cycle out?

#5  How worried should I be?

#6  How do you actually spell diarreahea?

Man, my goats have been so healthy up until this moment today.  Thank you in advance for any answers!  Thank you guys.

Still learning,

GoatRancher11




			
				Moderator said:
			
		

> We merged the 2 topics that were identical in Everything Else Goats and Diseases into this one thread in Diseases to avoid confusion.


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 12, 2011)

Also, can acorns be a "bad batch" if they have sat in a garage for a little while?  That could be part of it.  Either way, those were the last ones I had so no more acorns for a good while.  I'm hoping the coccidia preventative along with that dry dewormer will knock it all out.  I never knew there was dewormer like that you could sit out for them to eat on?  That is definitely better than having to try and handle each one of them and do it.  Only problem with that is that most probably are not even close to having any sort of worm and probably didn't need it.  I have only been at it since early June but I like many others plan on worming only when they actually need it.  I put enough out there per pound of goat but I'm not sure how long I should leave it all out there really?

Also, how long should I wait to possibly put more Coccidia feed back out there?  Maybe wait another couple weeks and throw some more out there for them possibly?  Just curious on that as well. 

Ya'll have a good night.

Good night from North Carolina.  Thanks for all you guys do in giving my little "green" rookie butt advice!


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## elevan (Dec 12, 2011)

GoatRancher11 said:
			
		

> #1  What in the heck is going on?
> 
> #2  Does it sound like I did the right thing?
> 
> ...


#1 - Could be any number of things?  Have you had a fecal ran?

#2 - I don't use feed based dewormers...imo they aren't worth the money that you spend on them.

#3 - You'll probably see a difference in 48 hours if the acorns are the problem.

#4 - Depends on what the problem is.  If it's worms then you need to deal with them.  If it's the acorns then in a few days.

#5 - Again depends on what the problem is.

#6 - diarrhea


I would suggest running a fecal on the weak doeling.  And depending on the results then deworm appropriately using a chemical dewormer (not a feed based one).  More information on internal parasite management can be found here:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt

The feed that has coccidia meds in it is intended to assist in prevention and does not treat coccidia.  If you have a coccidia problem then you need to deal with it appropriately.  More information on coccidia treatment can be found here:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-coccidia-goat


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 13, 2011)

Thank you for your input Emily!  You guys are always so helpful.  I'm hoping it is that the acorns were old, that's what I'm hoping.  But knowing an excessive amount can be toxic, I never feed them much.  Thanks for all the answers.  I don't live right at the farm so I'll probably go back out this afternoon after work OR early tomorrow morning, that means I'll be out there this afternoon.  I can't stand the thought of one of them being sick.  Drives me nuts that she feels bad!

Good to know it will probably cycle out.  I'll keep you guys posted on results later in the week.  Acorns were Sunday afternoon so hopefully we've cycled through it all by then!


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 13, 2011)

I have never fed acORns, so I know nothing about them.  

As far as the week doeling, personally I would catch her and look at her gums, see if she looks anemic and worm her individually by hand. 

Actually, I would round them all up, and give them a once over, checking gums and eyelids and overall body condition, and worm on an as need basis with an oral wormer. 

CONSIDER DOING FECALS ON A COUPLE OF THEM. 

Sometimes if I change my feeding program and I see some goats with scours, I give it a day as long as no one seems weak. 

The weak one I would also give B-vitamins to, since goat polio and listerosis(spelling?) can come on quickly and feed changes can be a cause. If she continued to stay week, get a temp. if it is low she is dehydrated(probably from worms) and very close to dying if it is high she has an infection and for sure needs to be on antibiotics. 

 That small amount of coccidia prevention in the bag of feed isn't enough to treat coccidia if that is what it is. What is in feed is a prevention and not a treatement.  

Hope they are doing better today.


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## greybeard (Dec 13, 2011)

GoatRancher11--you may want to read the links provided in the following thread. Applies to goats and cattle.

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=15326


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## Queen Mum (Dec 13, 2011)

Here are my thoughts.  You introduced a number of factors all at the same time or rather at such close together times that it is difficult to sort out which factor caused your diarhea.  It could be any one of those factors individually or all of them that are causing the diarhea, or it could be none of them and be something totally unrelated. 

So before saying, "I will never give my does acorns again", or  "Coccidia feed is the wrong approach", blah, blah, blah...

STOP and find out what the problem is.  

That is why research people do blind studies.  

Right now, you have to deal with:

making a weak doe feel better,
a bunch of recovering does
finding the initial cause of the whole herd diarhea    
finding the cause of the weak doe's individual issue

AND 

long term feeding plan
long term parasite prevention
whether or not acorns are OK for goats  (which personally, I don't see a problem with when fed in moderation and when they are fresh AND as long as the goats aren't pregnant)

Deal with the immediate emergency first.

Your weakest doe.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 13, 2011)

GoatRancher11 said:
			
		

> The acorns didn't dawn on me at first but I did get 50lbs of feed from tractor supply that is a Coccidia preventative and I put that out there in their tubs and they went after it pretty hard.


How much feed did you give them at once?  Did you dump the entire 50 lb bag into their feeders?  And did you just dump the wormer into a feeder and let them have at it without properly dosing them?


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 13, 2011)

Awesome advice all the way around and thank you!  I dumped all 50lbs of feed at one time into two separate tubs.  There was still some out there today in both tubs when I got out there this morning so they should be okay there.  I put the dewormer in a separate little rubber tub and I did it per pound according to what the directions said per number of goats.  There was still some of that out there today as well but they had definitely eaten some so hopefully it will help.  I was not planning on rotating pastures quite yet b/c a nice rain is coming into NC on Friday night supposedly.  BUT I didn't want them on that side of the pasture anymore especially since I was unsure of the exact cause of what happened.  I just moved them to the other side this morning, moved the feed and water buckets.  They have shelters on both sides so they'll be fine.  They now have some green oats and rye grass and they haven't been on this side of the pasture (which also has a little bit of woods) for 48 days.  

My little girl that was hurting still has diarrhea but she was eating some green today and what looked like potential "bottle jaw" yesterday and completely freaked me out is no longer apparent.  She is definitely uncomfortable with the upset stomach and I saw her poop it out this morning but she came running when I had the corn and she was actively browsing with the other ladies.

Hopefully we'll see a nice turnaround by the weekend.  I'll feel much better about it all now than I originally did, that's for sure.  She looked much better today. 

I think it was probably a combination of things and throwing that many different food sources at them at one time probably didn't help anything I would guess.

Thank you guys.  Anymore advice is definitely cool with me.


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## Roll farms (Dec 13, 2011)

Dumping a bag of feed they're not used to eating out for them to eat free choice is asking for problems.

ANY dietary changes w/ goats should be done gradually.

Deworming should be done only as needed, only for the worm problem apparent, and w/ the right dewormer.

Pelleted dewormers, unless given individually and you make sure ea. goat eats their share, are a waste of money, IMHO....and maybe even if you do hand feed the entire amount.

A fecal needs to be ran on the weak doe.  She could have worms.  She could have cocci.  She could have both.

I've seen you post in the past that your kikos are hardy, and for the most part I agree, Kikos are hardy...but they're not immune to parasites, and when you stress them w/ dietary changes / moves, that's when problems flare up / worsen.

A doeling w/ cocci will not grow properly, reach maturity and make a good breeder.  A doeling w/ barberpole could die.
Bottle jaw due to barberpole-caused anemia often looks 'better' in the mornings, because the doe hasn't been grazing all night.  If can come and go daily...but one 50# bag of feed and some pelleted dewormer isn't going to fix what ails your goats.

Healthy goats with low/ no cocci loads fed the proper amount of coci prev. feed tend to not have bad cocci outbreaks.
The feed WILL NOT help, cure, fix, etc. Coccidiosis.  It won't.  Period.  I want to make sure you understand that part of what you're being told.  It's not a treatment for coccidia, it's a preventative ONLY if they are fed enough when they don't already have it.

Just want you to know that you're wasting your money on cocci prev feed if you're trying to TREAT a suspected case.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 13, 2011)

OK, what Rolls said is pretty correct.  I bit blunt perhaps but very clearly stated.

If I were in your shoes I would back up a bit and rethink your feeding plan.

Give your girls all straight hay for about a week.  

If you give grain or feed,  do it once a day only in small quantities.  JUST enough for them to finish off in 5 minutes  (no more than about a cup per goat) Yeah, they will argue over who gets the most, but it won't hurt them.

Stop all "treatment" and preventatives that are free choice except for mineral feeders. 

Dose each goat individually if you need to worm or give drenches.  (It's a pain in the butt, but for now, you will have better control over individual management.)  

With your weak doe, start her on daily drenches with 3cc's red cell, probiotics, minerals, vitamin B or some nutritional yeast, and some flax seed meal mixed up with a bit of warm water and molasses as well as a bit of electrolytes mixed in.  Give it twice a day for about a week.    Sounds like overkill, but really, it's just a bunch of vitamins, minerals and some tummy soothers to help give her energy and settle her tummy.  

Do fecals to eliminate the question of worms, etc.  

After you have got them all rebooted on hay and minimum grain, then start back by adding in whatever feed you feel you want them on as a maintanence grain - medicated, non-medicated, whatever, IMHO don't give it free choice.  Feed it daily.  Goats will tend to gorge on grain feed.   They should have free choice hay, free choice minerals, and free choice browse.  It may be more of a time issue, but you will avoid a lot of bloating issues and other feeding problems.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 14, 2011)

Yes, you should never dump an entire bag of feed in with your goats and expect them to regulate the amount they eat.  That's a disaster waiting to happen. They'll gorge themselves and get acidosis, bloat, scours, etc.  I'm pretty sure the diarrhea you saw was a result of dumping all that feed in with them.  Figure out how many lbs of feed per goat you want to feed, and then feed them once or twice a day accordingly. Most grain rations are not meant to be fed free choice.  

And I second the pelleted wormer.  There's no way of telling which goats ate enough to successfully treat them when you just put it out there for them.  I'm only a fan of dewormers that you can accurately dose.  

I would do like Queen Mum said and feed only hay for a few days or a week and see if the diarrhea clears up.  It would also help to go ahead and take a few fecal samples and have them tested, so you know for sure which parasites they have.  Once you find out what they have, you can work up a plan to accurately treat it.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 14, 2011)

NOt saying I agree with putting 50lbs of feed out there at one time for 24 goats that aren't used to it, but I beleive he put the  medicated feed out after he saw the scours.  Not before, Although giving them 6 cups of feed each in one feeding when they aren't used to it would alone cause scours in atleast some of them. I often feed my goats that much feed each day, but hey are used to it and I start out with around 1 1/2 cups and go up every 3 or 4 days until I am at the desired amount. Sometimes mine do get fed free-choice, but again, I start out slowly. 

As mentioned the preventive medicine in the bag of feed will do nothing for coccidiosis treeatment.  The feed has to be fed on a daily basis to help keep already low number of cocci down, it prevent the numbers from building up, while still allowing a few to exist. You see cocci is always present in the animal, your goal, our goal, is to help maintain a low enough level to not cause the animal to be sick, while still maintaining a high-enough level to help the animal become immmune to cocci as it ages. STress at any age of the animals life can cause a cocci Bloom. Although most often cocci is a problem in animals under the age of 2. 



My first thought is why have you choosen to feed bagged corn and not a goat feed? In our area 50lb bags of corn is not that much of a savings over a medicated pelleted goat feed, that has many more minerals in it, and properly balanced for goats. Have you looked at your feed mills and priced the feed. We just ordered a ton at 10.35 a 50lb bag, We brought the 40 bags home and put them in 55 gallon drums and covered it. Ofcourse we can't leave it sit for weeks during the summer, we would have to use it in 3 or 4 weeks in warmer weather, but in cooler weather it will keep for a couple months. 

I highly recommend looking into a mineral feeder and putting out loose goat minerals free-choice, if you aren't already doing this 

I do hope your goats are feeling better this morning.


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 16, 2011)

Good stuff guys and this is why I come to this board.  Certainly, I'm no genius but I did put the Cocci preventative out there knowing it would not "cure" or "treat" the sick doeling at that time.  I must not have answered something someone asked me on that?  I put that out there in hopes to prevent any of the other ones from getting it, that was my goal.  I have about 2-3 of the 24 goats that will actually come up to me while not feeding them.  Well, about 18-20 of them will let me rub them when they are eating hay.  The reason I put the pelleted wormer out there is for this very reason.  I should have been more clear with that.  My goats are pretty loose and free range, I don't shut them up, I let them browse like I've been told to by many other ranchers.  In order for them to feel in a natural habitat, they don't need to be pinned up.  The downside to that is that they are not easy to catch at all and currently I have no fenced off area for that.  I will build that in the spring but for now, they don't have that.  

I buy corn for $10 a 50 pound bad and throw that out about every other day to give them something to eat.  If you guys think I should get the goat feed, maybe I'll do that as well if that is truly better than corn.  I could see where it could be but it is pretty expensive as well I think.  Certainly, they always have free choice mineral and they also have 2 50 pound salt blocks as well, one on each side of the pasture.  

I definitely got Kikos for their "hardiness", but not only that, no hoof trimming, good mothering skills, etc, which I've heard horror stories on with some other goat breeds ALTHOUGH personally, I have no idea b/c I'm just a beginner.  I do realize that no goats are parasite resistant, I do realize that so I'm not as stupid as I appear.  I just tried to put myself in the best place to succeed versus fail.  This is a "side gig" for me, not a full time job.  I can't be out there all the time but I really enjoy it when I am out there.  Headed over there shortly.

Thank you guys for the advice.  If there is something here that needs some "preaching", let me hear it.  I enjoy the criticism and finding out what I'm doing wrong.  I think I'm very "coachable" and I know I don't have all the answers.  After it rains tonight, I will have hay out there for them tomorrow.  I think strictly hay may be good for a little while.

Have a great weekend.


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## elevan (Dec 16, 2011)

I don't like the corn.  It's unbalanced and can create problems with Urinary Calculi especially in your boys.  Adding corn to goat pellets just makes everything unbalanced.  You could throw in some Alfalfa pellets in to balance it out, I suppose.

Frankly this winter I'm giving my feeding a tweaking and will be feeding straight alfalfa pellets.  Right now (where I am) they are cheaper than pelleted feed and the same price as corn.

There are definitely parasite resistant goats...but there are not parasite proof goats.  

The way I see is with your herd is that you either catch those that need treatment or you cull the ones that do.  Kikos are known for being parasite resistant so I wouldn't keep any that have problems with parasites in your herd.

Those pelleted dewormers are gonna create problems for you though in terms of resistance.  They're gonna help your worms become resistant to treatment, which is not what you want.

You may want to read up on things that you can plant to help with parasite issues.  Check out the Parasite Management link in my signature and also this post on plants  that could be planted to assist with keeping parasites down.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 16, 2011)

You really need to set yourself up a catch pen. We have used hog panels and t-posts, Then put a couple grain feeders inside of it, and fed in there on a regular basis. Not closing it, but just feeding in it so they get used to going in it. Then you can always close it up when you need to catch them and work on them. When we first got goats, we had no barn and 6 acres wide-open pasture with poor fencing on the perimeter. First thing we did was move in some calf huts and build a catch pen.  

Ours are rarely penned up and are not tame, a couple of them have been friendlier than the rest, but most of them wont go up to you unless you have a bunch of leaves in your hands, and you better be fast the first time you go to catch them, or they wont give you a second chance. That is with out a catch pen. With a catch pen it is a lot easier, and a shepherds hook. Halters always help if you are doing much work with the animal on your own. That way if they are wild, you can tie them to a post or tree to treat them or look them over. 


even though your kiko are not requiring as much handling as the boer goats that we have, You really need to set something up to beable to easily catch them if the need arises. 

Hope they are doing better, since their problems with scours(runny poop).


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 16, 2011)

Man, I really enjoy all the knowledge you guys (ladies I should say I think) give, it is much appreciated!  Yeah, you are right, on the "catch pen", I need to do that ASAP.  I think I'm okay for the next few months but I have got to get it done in the Spring time, like in late March or early April.  Was out there a little while ago and threw 168 pounds of wheat seed (it is still warm in NC, was 70 degrees yesterday, ground still good for growth) out by hand on the side they are rotated off of right now.  Man, I'm pooped.  All the girls look to be in good shape and the one that had scours and actually there were about 4-5 that ended up with it, they all look better.  The poopy stain is still on their tails but you can tell it is fading away so I think everything has hopefully cycled.  I threw them out a bale of hay before the rain so they (and my donkey) could all eat a little bit on it.

When I look back and from reading everyone's input, I made so many mistakes at one time that I'm not even sure about anything as far as what caused it all.  Honestly I think all I've done this year is make mistakes but I'm certainly learning from them.  In this case, I kept compounding mistake after mistake and I didn't realize it til about Tuesday and then it was too late.  That little doe freaked me out!  

I went from a bad batch of acorns, to 50 pounds of feed to dewormer and throwing corn out in addition.  Even the goats were probably like "What in the heck is he doing?"    One thing is for sure, I definitely overfed them and that couldn't have done anything but hurt the situation.  

And I agree with you guys on the dewormer.  They did eat it all and that is the first time they've been wormed since last June, all of them were wormed before they got to the farm.  I hated doing it that way but I was worried to death about that one little doeling and then one of the two (Madison) that always comes to me had pale eyes when I did the Famancha test on her so I just left it out there for all of them.  Maddy had pink eyelids yesterday afternoon and she looked wonderful today so I think it helped.

As far as the corn goes, I think I will take that advice.  May continue to throw some out as a "treat" but I'll try and find the pelleted alfalfa.  There is a feed supply store within 2 miles of the farm, no problem on that.  If there is a better way to get it, please let me know.  I only have females right now, 24 of them and no buck until October or November of next year so I'm good on that as far as the "feed" not being sufficient.  I want these little young ladies to be fully grown before breeding them next Fall although some could probably be bred this year.  However, I wanted them all on the same breed cycle, so I'm not rushing it.  Man, it's so much better and easier in the Summer.  A lot has to be taken care of in the winter, that's for sure.  It is fun learning it though, although this week was NOT fun, was too stressful!

Hope everyone has a wonderful weekend!!!  God Bless.


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 16, 2011)

Thank you for the link as well "elevan."  I am planning on planting lespedeza across the road on the other part of the land in the Spring, so I'm up on that I think.  I just need to do a soil test.  The soil is very sandy soil, that's for sure.  I need to figure out what grows well on that soil.  In the recent past I read all about which plants would really help the herd as far as keeping worm loads low, etc.  I certainly plan on getting that one right for sure.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 16, 2011)

Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to buy a bunch of goats and try to feed them.  (Oh wait, that's not how it goes!  But it feels that way, doesn't it.)
It helps to have a ton of advice sometimes.  Even if you feel like you messed up, you can also untangle yourself better if there is someone on the outside telling you which knot to untie first!


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## redtailgal (Dec 16, 2011)

I agree with you.......the folks on this site are wonderful!  Not o nly do they help, freely and willingly, they CARE.  

I've made my mistakes too, so has everyone else on this board.  Dont fret over that.

While I can appreciate the praise that you are offering the folks that have given you advise, I wanted to  give you a little recognition too.
Many folks get snarky when someone says that you may not be doing what is best for your animals.

Thank you for being open minded! Thank you for not being defensive and for being willing to learn from your mistakes!


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## elevan (Dec 16, 2011)

Yep, we've all made our share of mistakes and most of them can be recovered from.  Goats are a HUGE learning curve.


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 16, 2011)

Yep, I think that is what "experience" is.  Experience is making a whole bunch of mistakes and then learning from them over time.  Either a wise old man told me that once or I read it as a quote.  It's so funny too b/c I researched Boers, Savannas, Tennessee fainting, Spanish and Kikos for about 6-9 months before I even bought the first one.  I knew it would be a HUGE learning curve and it certainly is.  Everything sounds so easy when you read it in a book or on Google or whatever else.  All the fun starts when you actually have the goats and it's like "Oh crap, now what?"  Sort of like having your first child.  My wife and I have a 15 month old daughter.  I remember coming home from the hospital in September of 2010 and being like "Gosh, they actually let us leave the hospital with her and no one is here to supervise us, now what do we do?"  It's so funny looking back.  I just started in June of this past year with the goats and this is my first winter.  I have a feeling I will be learning a lot MORE from here on out and I'm not even pretending I have advice to give yet!  The only advice I can give for sure and be certain on is the fencing.  I have wielded woven wire and electric strands at the bottom.  If it weren't for all you guys on this site, I would have done electric strands by themselves and I really would be chasing goats all the time.  They can get in and out of anything, I swear!  It is unbelievable how creative their minds are.

Thank you to who gave me the "praise."  I have not been around a long time, I'll be 30 years old actually on Christmas Eve.  But I have run my own business for 6 years now and one thing I learned very early on is to accept criticism and be able to take it.  Criticism in most forms is very constructive and as long as you are open minded about it, you can learn a lot especially from folks who are much wiser and have "been there, done that and got the T-shirt."  I'm not one to get too upset at all and usually if I do, I'm more mad at myself than anything else.  I've been upset with myself all week about all this but I think they will all survive and the best thing about it is I've learned about 4-5 things not to do!

- don't give that much feed at one time

- need a catch pen (getting there on that)

- corn is basically a waste of time, seek alfalfa pellets ASAP

- *don't panic and do 4-5 things at one time, in turn compounding mistakes over and over and over................terrible for the goats!!!*

- properly dosing and deworming each goat is better way to go (I kind of knew this already but just totally panicked)

I sincerely appreciate all the advice, definitely.  I'm sure I'll ask for more and hopefully, one day, I'll be able to actually give some!  Ya'll have a great weekend.  Sleep tight!


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## Queen Mum (Dec 17, 2011)

GoatRancher11 said:
			
		

> Yep, I think that is what "experience" is.  Experience is making a whole bunch of mistakes and then learning from them over time.  Either a wise old man told me that once or I read it as a quote.  It's so funny too b/c I researched Boers, Savannas, Tennessee fainting, Spanish and Kikos for about 6-9 months before I even bought the first one.  I knew it would be a HUGE learning curve and it certainly is.  Everything sounds so easy when you read it in a book or on Google or whatever else.  All the fun starts when you actually have the goats and it's like "Oh crap, now what?"  Sort of like having your first child.  My wife and I have a 15 month old daughter.  I remember coming home from the hospital in September of 2010 and being like "Gosh, they actually let us leave the hospital with her and no one is here to supervise us, now what do we do?"  It's so funny looking back.  I just started in June of this past year with the goats and this is my first winter.  I have a feeling I will be learning a lot MORE from here on out and I'm not even pretending I have advice to give yet!  The only advice I can give for sure and be certain on is the fencing.  I have wielded woven wire and electric strands at the bottom.  If it weren't for all you guys on this site, I would have done electric strands by themselves and I really would be chasing goats all the time.  They can get in and out of anything, I swear!  It is unbelievable how creative their minds are.
> 
> Thank you to who gave me the "praise."  I have not been around a long time, I'll be 30 years old actually on Christmas Eve.  But I have run my own business for 6 years now and one thing I learned very early on is to accept criticism and be able to take it.  Criticism in most forms is very constructive and as long as you are open minded about it, you can learn a lot especially from folks who are much wiser and have "been there, done that and got the T-shirt."  I'm not one to get too upset at all and usually if I do, I'm more mad at myself than anything else.  I've been upset with myself all week about all this but I think they will all survive and the best thing about it is I've learned about 4-5 things not to do!
> 
> ...


Holy guacamole,  you're pretty smart to get all that in one go!  And you have a kid to boot.  I'm impressed.   But you haven't posted pics yet?  That's the one thing you haven't learned.   C'mon, we are waiting...

Goats... pictures...  want to see goat pictures....


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## ksalvagno (Dec 17, 2011)

For a catch pen, you could buy corral panels at TSC and then make a 10x10 or 12x12 catch pen area very quickly. When you have a catch pen, make sure it is somewhere that you can run the goats in and quickly close. Also, have it up all the time and maybe even put some feed in it or something so it isn't known as that "bad" place that they get poked and prodded. If they only go in the catch pen for "bad" things, you will soon have a hard time getting them in there.


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 18, 2011)

Will do on the "catch pen", that sounds like a plan.  I promise I'll get some pictures on here at some point.  Won't be too far off.  Got some fun and pretty goats I think.


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## GoatRancher11 (Dec 18, 2011)

Oh yeah, just checked on them again tonight on the way home.  Gave them some hay and all are doing fine, alive and kicking.  Hopefully they'll keep on hanging in there.  They were happy to see me and came running.  They love that hay!


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## elevan (Dec 18, 2011)

Food is the way to a goat's heart


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