# Pregnancy vs. vulva color



## brentr (Sep 13, 2011)

I've read the threads on BYH and other sources about vulva color in does and breeding readiness - the deeper red/purple the color, the more ready she is.  Would it stand to reason that a pregnant doe would have a pale pink color, indicating not breeding ready?  I have a doe I think is pregnant (14 days) but I am a novice palpator (sp?) and am not convinced I felt anything.  Well, I might have felt a kidney, or "berries" moving down the colon  )  That is a topic for another post.

I was wondering, short of palpation, if I could get any sign about pregnancy from her vulva color.  Any insight, opinion, or experience from the BYH community would be appreciated as I am growing very frustrated at trying to get my two does pregnant (it is not supposed to be this hard, right?!).  If she is not, this will be the third breeding that has not taken.  I'm starting to think about sending them to freezer camp and starting over.  I have NZW does.


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## oneacrefarm (Sep 13, 2011)

Brent,

It may not be your does. Do you house your buck(s) outside? He may be heat sterile temporarily. It happens when the temps are over 85f for consecutive days, more often if it is hotter than that.

For my does, when they were in the last week of pregnancy, their "parts" looked just like they did when ready to breed. When are you palpating? Check out this...

Palpations - Pregnancy checks

Start trying these right away, don't wait until some later time, since they take some practice to get any good at. You have to forget about the 14-day test that some books tell about, rarely anyone gets good at that, too hard to find those little lumps. But at 10 to 12 days, the usual test period in Europe, you just feel for a bulge in the lower abdomen, it will feel like what you would think a full bladder would feel like. In early pregnancy, the litter is still a compact mass in the lower abdomen. At about day 13, the uterine horns stretch out lengthwise so that this bulge is gone. Always do the palpations with CLEAN HANDS, you are touching right where the young pups are going to be nursing next time! I check them at 11 days, and if I can't get a positive (or negative) test then I re-check them on day 12. Never handle the doe on day 13, a placental change is going on. Check a doe at day 11, and compare with a doe you know is not yet pregnant, until you can feel the difference. The day 14 test is very hard to do, and since you don't know when the doe actually ovulated (somewhere in the next 24 hr after you bred her) what you think is day 14 may be her day 13 and you had better leave her alone. Then, on day 20, if she is pregnant, there will be a bulge on her right side, where the litter is pushing the caecum outward. This will not be so noticeable on the first litter, but will be obvious on later litters. Then from about day 25, you can feel some irregular lumps behind her ribs, its usually easier to feel these on her left side. These lumps are the little pups. Don't feel her on day 23, another placental change. These things (not handling on day 13 and day 23) we learn from the lab-animal people (Harkness & Wagner, 1983), the rabbit production and pet rabbit people don't know that yet, although it's been know by the lab people for years, communication has broken down somewhere. 

Link to the whole document: http://pan-am.uniserve.com/pg000031.htm 

Shannon


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## dewey (Sep 13, 2011)

There's really no reliable signs like that....even pregnant does will often still accept bucks (why "test breeding" is terribly unreliable and can endanger the doe & litter).  Now, if a doe starts pulling hair at around 2 weeks it's pretty much a sure bet that she's _not_ bred , but short of palp or waiting there's just no other way to know for sure if she _is_ bred.

Before giving up on them I would be sure to rule out environmental factors...like heat, overweight/nutrition, stress, etc., and maybe have someone that's been breeding for a while come over to eval & assist (or take the buns over to them) and maybe do table breeding instead.  

Are you in a cool state where it's been cool for a good month or more prior to the breeding date 2 weeks ago?  I've read research that states it can take a minimum of 30-90 days or more for bucks to recover fertility after hot weather.  I understand there's times to cull stock that won't produce, but when an _entire_ herd doesn't produce I tend to think OE  of some kind that can be worked out successfully.  It'd be a shame to needlessly start over.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 14, 2011)

dewey said:
			
		

> There's really no reliable signs like that....even pregnant does will often still accept bucks (why "test breeding" is terribly unreliable and can endanger the doe & litter).  Now, if a doe starts pulling hair at around 2 weeks it's pretty much a sure bet that she's _not_ bred , but short of palp or waiting there's just no other way to know for sure if she _is_ bred.
> 
> Before giving up on them I would be sure to rule out environmental factors...like heat, overweight/nutrition, stress, etc., and maybe have someone that's been breeding for a while come over to eval & assist (or take the buns over to them) and maybe do table breeding instead.
> 
> Are you in a cool state where it's been cool for a good month or more prior to the breeding date 2 weeks ago?  I've read research that states it can take a minimum of 30-90 days or more for bucks to recover fertility after hot weather.  I understand there's times to cull stock that won't produce, but when an _entire_ herd doesn't produce I tend to think OE  of some kind that can be worked out successfully.  *It'd be a shame to needlessly start over*.


X2


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