# Saanens- A few questions!



## trix42 (Dec 21, 2009)

Hi guys, 

I am new to the site, and to goats, but not to animals. I have owned horses, dogs, cats, rabbits, chickens, the list goes on. However, we are about to buy a herd of 5 purebred Saanen does and I have a few questions about the breed.

First of all, I hear that they are very docile. Do they make a habit of challenging fencing? We have barbed wire and electric wire JUST for the winter, as soon as spring comes we are taking off the barbed. Would they be okay with the barbed more so than other breeds who constantly try to escape?  I know barbed is not ideal, but would we be okay with it til spring??  

Second, when do you typically breed Saanens? Do they come into heat cycles or can they be induced to come into heat if they have a buck? 

And third, will Saanens be okay against predators? We have a horse who could fight anything off, but I'm not sure if he would be 'nice' to the goats. We have coyotes, bears, raccoons, etc here. What do you guys do to fend off predators??

Thanks for your time, looking forward to spending more of mine on this forum!


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## trix42 (Dec 21, 2009)

And a follow up question if you don't mind- What do purebred Saanens go for in your area? Does and kids? Thanks!! Just curious.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 21, 2009)

Sorry, I don't know anything about Saanens per say but I'm guessing there is a certain time of year that you would breed them. Probably the fall for spring kids but hopefully someone else will be able to give you better details.

I would think any goat will try a fence. They aren't necessarily trying to get out as much as trying to get that better grass on the other side of the fence. So they may stick their heads through a fence if they can. They may not challenge a fence per say but if there is a way to get out, they probably will.

Goats need to be protected from predators. A livestock guardian dog is one way. If you have a barn, you could always lock them up in the barn at night. Good fencing is  a must no matter what other protection you have. Other options are guard llamas or donkeys.

I don't know if the barbed wire is the greatest thing but you do what you have to do for the winter. I'm sure you can't get out there and put up fencing in the bitter cold.

I have Nigerian Dwarfs so I have no idea what Saanens go for.

That is great that you are getting goats. Good luck with them.


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## trix42 (Dec 21, 2009)

Thanks for your reply. 

Yes, it is absolutely frigid here and I asked hubby if we could take off the barbed and well, the look he gave me shut me up about it. We have two wires of barbed and 4 of electric. I almost want to wait til spring to buy the goats because of this but I am getting a good deal on the herd and if I wait, I won't get them. If there is any type of cut or injury, I will put them into a small penned area we have that is all panelling so there is a safer option if need be.

I'm pretty sure now, after thinking about it, that the horse will be useless. He is good at wandering around and eating and thats about it. Now I'm looking into a guardian Llama or donkey. I've always wanted one of each, so it's a good excuse to get one.   I am looking into Llama's and just curious- should you only get one llama, or is it okay to get a breeding pair? Will they still protect the goats?? Dreaming of little llama babies... also I would shear them and use their fiber for my sewing habit, so it's a win win if I can get a breeding pair!


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## ksalvagno (Dec 21, 2009)

I would not have an intact llama male in with your goats. His hormones will get the best of him and he will become a hazard.

Make sure that any llama you get is actually a guard llama. Not all llamas guard. The llama should be at least 3 years old and have a proven guarding record. I'm sure the same goes for donkeys. If you have to worry about bears or something, then 2 llama would probably be good.

A breeding female probably wouldn't be a good choice either because she will be more concerned about her cria than the goats. You really need a non breeding llama to be a good guard but like I said before, make sure they are actually a guard llama.


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## clarkai (Dec 21, 2009)

Ok, don't know much about saanens, but I do know that like most dairy goat breeds, they are seasonal breeders. They will come in to heat (and the buck will go into rut) in the fall, and will kid 5 months later. Heat cycles are generally between 18 and 21 days long, and they will continue going into heat until they are bred, or the season ends. 

Goats like getting out, but it really depends on how close together those hot wires are- and some people have better success with hot wires than others. My concern with the barbed wire would be those udders getting all scratched up, but if they are dry now, maybe that won't be to big of an issue. I don't think the barbed wire would stop a goat. 

You will need something to protect the goats if predators are a problem in your area. A livestock guarding dog might be a good choice, or a llama or donkey that is a proven guard animal.


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## trix42 (Dec 21, 2009)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> I would not have an intact llama male in with your goats. His hormones will get the best of him and he will become a hazard.
> 
> Make sure that any llama you get is actually a guard llama. Not all llamas guard. The llama should be at least 3 years old and have a proven guarding record. I'm sure the same goes for donkeys. If you have to worry about bears or something, then 2 llama would probably be good.
> 
> A breeding female probably wouldn't be a good choice either because she will be more concerned about her cria than the goats. You really need a non breeding llama to be a good guard but like I said before, make sure they are actually a guard llama.


Very good points. Again, did a bit more research into it and the male llama could even try to mate the female goats! Will be looking into a female llama for sure with a history of guarding.  



Curious if anyone is into Saanen genetics, I am getting a doe that has Hy-crest Juno's Jacklyn in her pedigree 3 or 4 times and apparently her sire throws very desirable progeny. I am trying to learn all I can about Saanen genetics, if anyone has any experience would you let me know and I would love to pm you a few questions and boy would I appreciate it!! I have their pedigrees and they look great, but of course I don't know much about it!


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## no nonsense (Dec 21, 2009)

Most of your questions are not unique to Saanens. They apply to all dairy goat breeds, except maybe the question about temperament. Generally, Saanens have very good overall dairy temperaments, which means that they are usually tractable and easily managed. There are always exceptions and individual differences in any breed.

Saanens, like most normal dairy breeds are seasonal breeders, usually coming into heat in the fall.

Any breed of goat will have problems with predators, if they are kept in enclosures which do not exclude them. If coyotes can get into your goats' pen, you will have problems.

Many people complain that goats are difficult to fence. Not if you accept their nature, and build proper facilities to contain them. Barbed wire is simply not suitable for goats. They are what they are, and they don't confirm to your situation just because you wish it to be so. Electric will deter them, but it still is not ideal fencing for goats, at least not the single strand type. You may "do what you have to do for the winter", just go into it with the understanding that you are taking a risk. People come on here all the time having done so, yet still bemoan the fact that their poor animals were killed by predators, wondering how it could have happened, when if they had simply been honest with themselves in the first place they may have avoided a lot of grief.

You don't give enough information about your safely penned area to give you accurate advice on its suitability, but your good deal may not turn out to be such a bargain if your goats are lost to predators.


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## trix42 (Dec 21, 2009)

no nonsense said:
			
		

> You don't give enough information about your safely penned area to give you accurate advice on its suitability, but your good deal may not turn out to be such a bargain if your goats are lost to predators.


I appreciate your honesty, I am very concerned about barbed wire and predators and take it very seriously.

The safe spot is an area previously used to herd cattle into to prepare for transporting or just to work with them. It's not huge, the goats wouldn't have a ton of room in it, but it has all wood panels and should be high enough no predators can jump in. There is an area surrounding that that is fenced in with cow panels. Don't think that would keep out predators, and maybe not even keep in goats, but it is also not a huge space. It IS winter though so its not like they could be grazing the paddocks anyways. I might keep them in there instead of free ranging with the barbed wire.


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## trix42 (Dec 21, 2009)

You know, I may just force hubby to help me take apart some of the barbed wire and replace it. It really is numbingly cold but I'd hate myself if something happened to the girls and it was preventable.

How many strands should I have up to keep goats in?


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## ohiofarmgirl (Dec 21, 2009)

hey trix42!

we have a saanen and we were very happy to find a lot of truth in the description that they are "like big marshmallows"! we found ours to be really easy going, didnt give two hoots about getting over/under/thru the fence, easy to milk etc etc. 

she came into heat in the fall like most 'alpine' goats.

the one thing that we found was that our la mancha was more efficient with her feed than the saanen - who we could just stand there and pour feed and hay into. the saanen also had lower milkfat - which was no big deal for drinking and a minor difference in cheese making. we never could tell the diff in taste. 

as for predators, two dogs working together could pull one down in a hot second. a really determined coyote could do it alone. sure they might stomp and charge, but seriously - goats are no match for predators. dogs/coyotes are killing machines once their prey drive kicks in. also we lock ours up at night. a good shelter is worth the hassle - besides they dont like to get their little goatie feet wet if it rains!

we nillynallied around with fencing and electric was the best solution over and over again. we only have two strands on the inside of an existing wood fence. i think we got the materials from TSC for about $200 and have never regretted it. 

good luck!


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## FarmerChick (Dec 22, 2009)

I had one saanen only in all my years of goats.

Nice goat also.  Bought a bunch of boer cross and this one was in the group and the only one left so I took her also.

Does what other goats do...lol

It actually was a pain in the &*^ type goat because they lady made this one a pet.  So when I fed, or went into the pasture to do work this goat was on me like white on rice getting in my face....lol   while cute for a week, it got old having to push this goat away constantly...lol

But I do like saanen goats definitely.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Dec 22, 2009)

yep. mine is a show girl (i dont show her, the breeder does) and she is the Most Spoiled Goat EVER.  while the other goaties are our there free rangin cuz its free, Miss Award Winning Goat sits on her duff until i BRING her weeds and such. 

but she has a fun EASY personality - not like the screaming nubies or bouncy nigi's


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## cmjust0 (Dec 22, 2009)

FarmerChick said:
			
		

> It actually was a pain in the &*^ type goat because they lady made this one a pet.  So when I fed, or went into the pasture to do work this goat was on me like white on rice getting in my face....lol


Sometimes, though, that can be handy.  

I wormed some of our goats a few weeks ago with Dectomax Inj., dosed orally.  I literally just walked out into the barnyard with a syringe, the vial, and a list..  Then I walked over to each goat who was getting dosed, scratched her cheeks a bit, straddled her, grabbed her by the lower jaw, shot the wormer down her neck, marked her off the list, and went walking over to the next one...  

No chutes, no stanchions, no pens, no nothing...  Just walked around picking out goats to torment.  

Also, just for the record....even when having to work with flighty goats, I've never seen one that didn't follow you around if you had a bucket of feed.  Even the ones with the 30' flight zones seem to get right in the way when it's dinner time.  

Also for the record....I know what you mean.    There's nothing quite like trying to build something in the goat barn with friendly goats around..  More than once I've had it happen that just as I'm ready to rare back with a hammer, a notice there's a goat sniffing the claw end.  I've yet to not notice it, but I imagine one day it'll be a really quick way for somebody to lose a few teeth.


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## Roll farms (Dec 22, 2009)

CM, a big Amen Brother to you....Gimme a "PITA" goat I don't have to chase ANY day over having to corner and wrestle some of the dam-reared Boers we have.

My husband threatens to shoot them every time they run him into the fence.  Some of those cows weigh 200# plus, and I get real sore from messing w/ them at hoof trim / vaccination time.

But...When I go into the pasture, I want them loving on me.  They all clamor around for a bit, but once they realize I'm foodless, they generally wander off and do their own thing and leave me be.

When all else fails, I toss a few flakes of hay away from where I need to be and they all run to it, and I do what I gotta before they're done.


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## trix42 (Dec 23, 2009)

Thank you one and all for your replies!

I am so excited to get into goats, and I feel Saanens are a good breed to start with. Glad to hear everyone else has had good experiences with them!

I have an update on the fencing, I thought both paddocks had barbed wire but one does not and it has a huge shelter for them. 

I don't live on the property, (I live about 5 mins away) it's a family farm that isn't being used so that's why I didn't know off the get go. It used to be all barbed wire but they took it down for some reason. Hurrah! 

There are three strands of electric, wondering if I should try that out or immediately put up a fourth strand?


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## mully (Dec 23, 2009)

For larger goats 4 strands of wire are fine but for smaller breeds 6 strands are better. With regard to llamas if you are not going to breed them gelded males are much easier to deal with.


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## landis1659 (Jan 4, 2010)

I have a couple saanens that hopefully with have some kids early this spring.  I read somewhere that dairy goats usally start there heat cycles in Aug-Dec. But some times if you have a buck on site they could go into heat a little earlier.  And my buck and doe will do anything to get to each other or more food. We've had to fix our fence several times for just one pair.  I can't wait to get the milk.  I'm hoping for a March delivery, but since this is our first year I'm not sure yet.  She is really starting to put on the weight now though.  As for the price, we've in mid Alabama and I paid 125.00 for my female and that was with no papers.  I seen them for up to 400.  She has been very affectionet to all our family but the male can be quit agressive.  Good luck with your new Saanens  Pepper


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