# Sheep Dairy



## OneFineAcre (Sep 26, 2016)

I came across this story on a sheep dairy in Alabama.
Thought you sheep folks might enjoy.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt...of-sheep-farming-peek-inside-an-alabama-dairy


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## frustratedearthmother (Sep 26, 2016)

That's pretty cool!


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## NH homesteader (Sep 26, 2016)

That's really cool! I'm not a sheep person but it's still really awesome


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## norseofcourse (Sep 26, 2016)

Neat story, thanks!


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## Alexz7272 (Sep 26, 2016)

@NH homesteader You should become a sheep person


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## Baymule (Sep 26, 2016)

Makes me want sheep cheese and caramels!


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## Southern by choice (Sep 26, 2016)

Very Cool!


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## NH homesteader (Sep 27, 2016)

@Alexz7272 I'm actually debating Katahdin sheep...


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## Baymule (Sep 27, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> @Alexz7272 I'm actually debating Katahdin sheep...


I have four Katahdin/Dorper cross ewes. The were bred to a Katahdin ram when I bought them, keeping two ewes to add to the flock this month. I now have a Dorper ram to breed my ewes to. We sold 2 1/2 lambs, we kept 1/2 a lamb for the freezer. Can't wait to try our own home grown lamb!


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## NH homesteader (Sep 27, 2016)

I'm going to be asking lots of questions about your sheep! My husband has even blessed this potential venture.  We've considered sheep before but wool is so...  Icky? Hair sheep are awesome!


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## Baymule (Sep 27, 2016)

I didn't want to be shearing sheep. I researched it from one end to the other and decided on Dorpers. But a sweet deal came up on the 4 ewes and we couldn't pass it up. I didn't want to start with expensive sheep and kill them with ignorance, so what I have is just fine. As I learn, I will upgrade the flock.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 27, 2016)

Absolutely.  I want Katahdins but am not  opposed to a cross either.  I see some crossed with Dorpers in my area.  Keeping the wool clean and shearing and all that is way too much for me!

Are rams like bucks? You have to keep them separate except when you want them to breed?


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## Bossroo (Sep 27, 2016)

Baymule said:


> Makes me want sheep cheese and caramels!


When one milks  ewes to make human edibles  , you are stealing nutrition from the ewes' lambs so they become malnurished and / or stunted simply because the ewe just can't produce enough milk in the very short 3-5 month annual lactation cycle  for both .   So, are their lambs killed or bottle fed which is a   labor intensive venture not to mention the high cost of milk replacer.    ? ? ?


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 27, 2016)

I've had sheep cheese before and it was actually very good!
 I wonder how much they give... They didn't have very impressive udders in the pic...


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 27, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> When one milks  ewes to make human edibles  , you are stealing nutrition from the ewes' lambs so they become malnurished and / or stunted simply because the ewe just can't produce enough milk in the very short 3-5 month annual lactation cycle  for both .   So, are their lambs killed or bottle fed which is a   labor intensive venture not to mention the high cost of milk replacer.    ? ? ?


Or sold as bottle babies...

You don't have to bottle feed by hand. I forget what it's called, but a lot of people use what looks like a big bucket filled with milk with teats attached so multiples can drink at once. I'm sure the males are for meat, though.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 27, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> When one milks  ewes to make human edibles  , you are stealing nutrition from the ewes' lambs so they become malnurished and / or stunted simply because the ewe just can't produce enough milk in the very short 3-5 month annual lactation cycle  for both .   So, are their lambs killed or bottle fed which is a   labor intensive venture not to mention the high cost of milk replacer.    ? ? ?


Most lambs are not nursed for 3-5 months. 
You can keep an a sheep in lactation far longer if milking.

We don't have sheep but with the goats there is plenty to do both. 
More than likely the ram lambs are sold off immediately or raised for market.
Lambar buckets are efficient and not time consuming and great management.

If running a sheep dairy I am quite sure, like goats, they are given additional feed to keep ewes healthy and nutritional needs met as well as higher production.


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## micah wotring (Sep 27, 2016)

Cool! That'd be awesome if when I get my Katahdins next year I could try some milk too. 

NH homesteader,  yessssss, get some!


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## NH homesteader (Sep 27, 2016)

Just a couple...  If hubby lets me!


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## norseofcourse (Sep 27, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> When one milks  ewes to make human edibles  , you are stealing nutrition from the ewes' lambs so they become malnurished and / or stunted simply because the ewe just can't produce enough milk in the very short 3-5 month annual lactation cycle  for both .   So, are their lambs killed or bottle fed which is a   labor intensive venture not to mention the high cost of milk replacer.    ? ? ?


I imagine dairy ewes are treated much like dairy cows, with the offspring bottle-fed and either raised for meat, or for replacement milkers.  With dairy cows, are the calves pulled immediately and bottle-fed colostrum, or are they left with the cow for a day or so and then pulled?

For the smaller farmer that wants to hand milk a few ewes, it doesn't have to make the lambs malnourished or stunted.  If you have a ewe that is capable of producing plenty of milk (and some breeds or individual ewes will do better than others), and practice good management, it's not hard.

I waited till my lambs were a week or two old.  No pulling lambs, no bottle feeding - I left them with their mom.  I only milked once a day, in the morning, after separating the lambs and ewes overnight.  My ewes had no problem giving me a cup or two of milk, and producing plenty for their lambs.  I milked ewes that had singles and twins; I would not milk a ewe raising triplets.  I fed my ewes extra while on the milkstand, and I kept track of their body condition and how their lambs were doing.  I would have stopped milking anyone who I felt was not doing well.  The lambs also got food and water while separated.

I have heard this objection before - that you are 'stealing from the lamb' when you milk a sheep.  I've never heard milking a cow or goat spoken of in the same way.  Is that because cows and goats are 'traditional' dairy animals, and sheep are not?  Well, some sheep breeds are used as dairy animals, and have been for hundreds of years.

I didn't do much milking this year due to some logistics problems, but I'm looking forward to milking again next spring and summer.  And raising good lambs, too.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 27, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> When one milks  ewes to make human edibles  , you are stealing nutrition from the ewes' lambs so they become malnurished and / or stunted simply because the ewe just can't produce enough milk in the very short 3-5 month annual lactation cycle  for both .   So, are their lambs killed or bottle fed which is a   labor intensive venture not to mention the high cost of milk replacer.    ? ? ?


The offspring are bottle fed for replacement ewes or meat just like any dairy operation
Cost is offset by high priced cheeses and caramels
You do like to see farms make a PROFIT
Seems they have found a way


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## Baymule (Sep 27, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Absolutely.  I want Katahdins but am not  opposed to a cross either.  I see some crossed with Dorpers in my area.  Keeping the wool clean and shearing and all that is way too much for me!
> 
> Are rams like bucks? You have to keep them separate except when you want them to breed?



Rams RAM. Mine is still gentle and sweet, no aggression whatsoever. But I watch him closely and don't turn my back on him. The lady we bought him from said his daddy would take your knee cap off.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 28, 2016)

My husband says they'll kill you and he doesn't want one.  Frankly neither do I but who knows if there's anyone around willing to stud out a hair sheep! That's the thing I am most concerned about. 

I tried to avoid having  a buck for my goats.  I ultimately got one but he  is a Nigerian and he's tiny! I have no interest in ever having a full size buck so I'll be breeding minis and mixed breed goats!


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## Bossroo (Sep 28, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> The offspring are bottle fed for replacement ewes or meat just like any dairy operation
> Cost is offset by high priced cheeses and caramels
> You do like to see farms make a PROFIT
> Seems they have found a way


Every year in our County there is a farm tour to show how small farming is operating. They sold their products at several "organic stores". There was a couple that tried a go at the sheep , goat, and raw cow milk gig just 5 miles from our place.   Lets just say that their efforts on milking the ewes had a very negative effect on their lambs, all were very underweight and they tried to keep them under wraps.   If the animal rescuers get a wind of these lambs, they would have a tizzy fit.  After 2 years , they whent broke.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 28, 2016)

I think the same could be said for cows couldn't it? Seeing what happens to unwanted dairy bull calves is similar. But sheep aren't traditionally bred for milking like dairy goats so if you're trying to have a ton of milk,  I'm sure that's to the lamb's detriment. If you're sharing milk then it wouldn't be as harmful. I think it's all about the individual  farmer and how they do it. And scale matters.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 28, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> Every year in our County there is a farm tour to show how small farming is operating. They sold their products at several "organic stores". There was a couple that tried a go at the sheep , goat, and raw cow milk gig just 5 miles from our place.   Lets just say that their efforts on milking the ewes had a very negative effect on their lambs, all were very underweight and they tried to keep them under wraps.   If the animal rescuers get a wind of these lambs, they would have a tizzy fit.  After 2 years , they whent broke.


In any business endeavor, some fail.
Seems that couple didn't have a good business plan.
I wouldn't think selling raw milk would be a very good plan, limited market.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 28, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> Every year in our County there is a farm tour to show how small farming is operating. They sold their products at several "organic stores". There was a couple that tried a go at the sheep , goat, and raw cow milk gig just 5 miles from our place.   Lets just say that their efforts on milking the ewes had a very negative effect on their lambs, all were very underweight and they tried to keep them under wraps.   If the animal rescuers get a wind of these lambs, they would have a tizzy fit.  After 2 years , they whent broke.



Like @OneFineAcre  said some businesses fail.
They simply may not have had the knowledge or experience and went into their venture too fast.
However, you cannot make the assumption that all sheep dairies have malnourished lambs and ewes.

Starting to sound like a vegan Bossroo  
Just kidding


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## babsbag (Sep 28, 2016)

Even cow dairies bottle raise the keeper calves; I will have to do the same with my goats. For me the goal is to sell them ASAP so I don't have to feed them for long. I may raise them on cow's milk as it is cheaper to buy cow's milk than use my goat's milk if I have a market for my milk. 

There is a sheep dairy in CA that sells ice cream. They do very well and had to move to a bigger facility. They started out with a 40' refer trailer converted to milking parlor and processing room. They out grew it quickly. No idea about their lambs but I would suspect that they bottle raise them.


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## Bossroo (Sep 28, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Like @OneFineAcre  said some businesses fail.
> They simply may not have had the knowledge or experience and went into their venture too fast.
> However, you cannot make the assumption that all sheep dairies have malnourished lambs and ewes.
> 
> ...


The couple in this original sheep dairy article are business people and well educated with a business plan that also have enough capital to finace the early years of growing the dairy sheep venture.  While the vast majority of small farmers are operating in the red every year, ( according to IRS )  so hobbby farmers at best with little or next to no knowledge of proper animal husbandry.  Oh by the way I am a CARNIVORE as I feed the vegies to a rabbit, chicken, sheep, etc. then eat the rabbit, chicken, sheep, etc.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 28, 2016)

@Bossroo 
That was the point of my post. Many are unprepared and businesses do fail. 


Southern by choice said:


> They simply may not have had the knowledge or experience and went into their venture too fast.
> However, you cannot make the assumption that all sheep dairies have malnourished lambs and ewes.



Your post suggests sheep dairies are starving their lambs and ewes. You witnessed this with one farm. This is not all sheep dairies. You also suggest that by running a sheep dairy the offspring are harmed by doing so.

Of course on a forum such as this many here are hobby farmers or very small scale producers, often with day jobs. Many here are raising their animals for their own consumption and have no interest in turning it into a business. 

And yes, I know you are not a vegan... hence the wink and the "Just kidding".


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 28, 2016)

I have to wonder how much these sheep produce?

@Bossroo
I pull and bottle feed all kids, we may allow a doe to dam raise here or there but most are pulled at birth. This year we only freshened 10 does- so yes I'm on a very small scale. Next spring it looks like we'll be freshening ~20.

I pull them at birth and give them colostrum from their dam. After that the milk is pooled together and fed accordingly.

My kids are not starving or stunted.
I actually have a few kids that are bigger than they should be. But, at least I'll be able to breed them this year.
I'm actually very pleased right now, 2 of my doelings that were from a set of quints are lovely. I'm shocked with their size, they are much larger then what is expected due to the large litter and the tiny size they were at birth  

I don't know how much sheep milk, but most of our goats give more milk then the kids can use. I believe that is because I condition them to produce more. I milk 3x daily for the first week and 2x daily for the next 7-10 months. If I can't milk 2x a day for the next 7-10 months they get milked 1x a day.

Again, not one of my kids are starving and they don't get all the milk. We share it 
Many dairy goat farms do this.

A well known alpine breeder was just talking about a doe that is on DHIR milk test. This doe just produced 24lbs on her last test. That is 1 pound per hour. The kids cannot possibly eat that much, especially when the doe produces 1-2 kids, triplets and quad can happen but its not very common in that breed. Obviously not all alpines will milk that much, but the point is many will still give plenty of milk. 

Yes, bottle feeding is time consuming. I have had luck with training them to drink from a trough. This spring I will use a lambar bucket. It is still time consuming, but it will help. 

You mentioned that the farm was selling to "organic stores". That in itself could have been one of the issues. You and I both know that many of these organic farms aren't as informed as they think they are. I have seen it many times. 
How old were these lambs? Did you ever do a parasite count on them? What about cocci? Lice/mites? Did these lambs have or had sore mouth? If they were just getting over sore mouth they may not have been eating.

You cannot say all sheep dairies are starving the lambs, just like you cannot say every dog (or horse) owner abuses their animal/s.


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## Bruce (Sep 28, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> My husband says they'll kill you and he doesn't want one.  Frankly neither do I but who knows if there's anyone around willing to stud out a hair sheep! That's the thing I am most concerned about.
> 
> I tried to avoid having  a buck for my goats.  I ultimately got one but he  is a Nigerian and he's tiny! I have no interest in ever having a full size buck so I'll be breeding minis and mixed breed goats!


Perhaps YOU will be the supplier of Katahdin stud services 

With respect to milking goats/sheep, I have to agree that if it harms the babies, something isn't being done right. I can buy both sheep and goat cheese made here in Vermont. I don't know the farms but I really doubt they are causing the little ones harm to get milk from the mamas.


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## babsbag (Sep 28, 2016)

I have never owned sheep but I have owned many a buck. I currently own 6 and have had others as well. Most of them were/are not bottle babies and none of them were mean. Rams on the other hand have an entirely different reputation.  I don't go in the pen during rut with my eyes closed, (only my nose) I am always cautious, but there has never been a  serious problem with the goats.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 28, 2016)

If we ever do get a ram I will make the pen so I can feed and water from outside of it.  And have really sturdy fencing!


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