# Gracie, oh my...



## bethh (Aug 4, 2018)

What a week.   Battling coccidia with my chickens and it’s time to address a Gracie issue.  Gracie can’t stay in the chicken backyard because of the creek.  She uses the creek as a means to go to the farm behind us, they have a legit garden plus it could be a means for her to escape and get into the road or who knows what else.  I’ve had to start taking her over on the leash or she escapes me.  

While she is in the main backyard, she has begun chewing on things... patio chairs, planter boxes, moldings, a garage door.  I’m not sure what to do.  I guess I could rent her out to a tree company and they could let her chip trees.  I haven’t kept her pent up because I just hate that thought.  If that’s what needs to happen, we will.  I bought her lots of toys so she would have something to chew on but I guess they aren’t as good as wood.  

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and suggestions.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 4, 2018)

How old is she? Is she teething?

She sounds extremely bored.


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## Baymule (Aug 4, 2018)

#1 thing is to build a secure fence to keep her where she should be. She might need more to do than guard chickens.  Maybe a couple of goat or sheep wethers.


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## bethh (Aug 4, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> How old is she? Is she teething?
> 
> She sounds extremely bored.


She is about 7 months old.  I’d agree but what are your suggestions for curbing her boredom/chewing?


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## Southern by choice (Aug 4, 2018)

She needs a job that utilizes her time and developing skill.  
I haven't been on much and haven't really read the thread of when you got her or what she guards etc.  Sounds like you got her for poultry and property is not fenced adequately.


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## bethh (Aug 4, 2018)

Baymule said:


> #1 thing is to build a secure fence to keep her where she should be. She might need more to do than guard chickens.  Maybe a couple of goat or sheep wethers.


Alright @Baymule, let me get this straight.  I need to tell my hubby that we need to get some goats to keep the dog that we got for the chickens busy.  Am I understanding?  If so, do you have room for 1 woman and LGD with a chewing problem, lol.  

I’m just joking.  I understand what you are talking about.  I was hoping her having an entire yard would be good.  I guess she needs a LGD sized ‘crate’ to prevent destructive behavior. I’ve considered goats but don’t know enough about them.  The only thing I feel like I know is that they need to be de horned and I’m not sure if that is correct terminology.   We have young grandkids that I wouldn’t want hurt.  If you think y’all could give me step by step instructions, I’d be game.  I’ve always loved animals.


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## bethh (Aug 4, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> She needs a job that utilizes her time and developing skill.
> I haven't been on much and haven't really read the thread of when you got her or what she guards etc.  Sounds like you got her for poultry and property is not fenced adequately.


It’s fenced but has a creek that runs through it.  We are currently trying to figure out how to fence the creek part so she can play in the creek but not get off our property.   The back is fenced in 3 separate paddocks.  The Center one doesn’t have the creek which is where she spends the majority of her time.  The chickens are in a separate paddock. I’m very open to suggestions.  

Can you recommend jobs that she could do?


She is the sweetest dog.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 4, 2018)

bethh said:


> I guess she needs a LGD sized ‘crate’ to prevent destructive behavior.


Absolutely not.  You got an LGD not a household pet.
She needs to work as in being a livestock guardian dog. Generally they are utilized for livestock. I know some use for poultry but they really are livestock guardians.


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## bethh (Aug 4, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Absolutely not.  You got an LGD not a household pet.
> She needs to work as in being a livestock guardian dog. Generally they are utilized for livestock. I know some use for poultry but they really are livestock guardians.


I don’t mean an actual crate just an area that she’s more contained.  I want to do right by her.  I just need to learn also.


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## Latestarter (Aug 4, 2018)

You could buy a sufficient sized diameter plastic culvert pipe for the creek to run through and build up around the culvert with dirt to allow adequate fencing. That way the water can run through but Gracie can't. You can drive some rebar into the creek bed in front of the pipe if the diameter is to large to keep her in.


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## bethh (Aug 4, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> You could buy a sufficient sized diameter plastic culvert pipe for the creek to run through and build up around the culvert with dirt to allow adequate fencing. That way the water can run through but Gracie can't. You can drive some rebar into the creek bed in front of the pipe if the diameter is to large to keep her in.


Thank you.  I’ll share this with my hubby.


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## Baymule (Aug 5, 2018)

How big, deep is the creek and what is the water flow/flood stage? Pictures would help. Do you have a water gap?


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## Latestarter (Aug 5, 2018)

I made my suggestion based on a pic she shared somewhere of Gracie playing in the creek. It wasn't that large. Of course it wasn't in flood stage either. But if heavy flow is a concern, you can do a larger diameter pipe or multiple smaller diameter pipes. In a 1000 year flood, the water will back up then flow over the top/around the sides & through the fencing...  This was my plan for the drainage ditch the previous owner ran down the side property line here. So I can fence across it. I have had water over top the side and run down through the yard.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 5, 2018)

I do believe in teaching dogs to have a time of boredom, it is a good exercise. However, putting her in a smaller more confined area is only going to create more issues. She is bored, has no real job and penning her is counter productive with a LGD. At her age she is also prime for "time to play with poultry".  This is also one reason why dogs are in pairs. LGD's play lgd games and get out energy when young in a healthy way by playing with each other learning and practicing their skills.


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## greybeard (Aug 5, 2018)

Baymule said:


> How big, deep is the creek and what is the water flow/flood stage? Pictures would help. Do you have a water gap?



I believe this is it. Water level appears 'normal' in this pic, but you can see it runs much higher by the exposed roots, and may even run higher than that in flood stage.






Placing a culvert in a dry swag that only flows when it rains is one thing, but doing so in a 'usually running' creek is another matter altogether and I highly recommend against placing any kind of bars or screen in front of a pipe. Even with nothing in front of the culverts, they are very prone to still get plugged up by debris that floats into them. It just takes one stick to get lodged sideways, and that stick catches twigs, which catch leaves and it's downhill from there. I have dual (side by side) 36" culverts under a drive that I have to clean out at least 2x/year because of what I just described.

A swinging water gate might work ok, depending on the terrain outside what is shown in the picture, but narrow steep sided and relatively deep channels are harder to design for but if that picture is indeed the troublesome creek, there appears to be no shortage of debris around and presumably upstream as well.


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## Baymule (Aug 5, 2018)

Yeah, that looks like it would be tough to design and put into use a water gap that would let sticks and debris go through, yet keep a Houdini Dog in!

What about fencing off the creek entirely?


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 5, 2018)

Oh Gracie! Queenie went through lots of plastic when she was teething and still chews some. She has no reason to be bored. I think it’s become more habit. It used to be just water bottles that the kids dropped but I caught her chewing on the picnic table yesterday. (It’s plastic.) We went on to another project!


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## bethh (Aug 17, 2018)

Here is what we have done so far with the creek.  Sorry for the duplicate.  I couldn’t figure out how to delete it.  I’m a work in progress.   Now it’s time to figure out the fencing.  It’s been mentioned that Gracie needs a job, a second LGD and livestock. Can you give me suggestions on livestock for a beginner?  If I were to get a 2nd LGD, my thoughts are older than Gracie so maybe it would help train her.  Am I on the right page?  What kind of job?


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## Wehner Homestead (Aug 17, 2018)

Job would be livestock. Depends on what interests you. Don’t get anything too rare that it’s hard to find resources. 

Start small. Example: 3-4 goats/sheep, 2 half grown cattle. You want something that can defend itself against Gracie and not let her chase/harm it. Introduce slowly with supervision. 

I’ll let someone else answer the age for the second LGD...


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## Baymule (Aug 17, 2018)

I like the gate. Just a heads up, I watched in amazement as my female GP, 67 pounds, squeezed herself through a 9"x12" pop door into the chicken coop. Then I watched in further amazement as Parker, 105 pounds, did the same thing. I thought I had them blocked out of the chicken coop with that little hole...….


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## Latestarter (Aug 17, 2018)

Nice job with the creek! Looks like she really enjoys her time in the water.


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## mystang89 (Aug 18, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I like the gate. Just a heads up, I watched in amazement as my female GP, 67 pounds, squeezed herself through a 9"x12" pop door into the chicken coop. Then I watched in further amazement as Parker, 105 pounds, did the same thing. I thought I had them blocked out of the chicken coop with that little hole...….



This. I had to put livestock fencing on my gate, (same type as yours) in order to stop them. 
I love how you solved the problem with the creek.


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## bethh (Aug 22, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I like the gate. Just a heads up, I watched in amazement as my female GP, 67 pounds, squeezed herself through a 9"x12" pop door into the chicken coop. Then I watched in further amazement as Parker, 105 pounds, did the same thing. I thought I had them blocked out of the chicken coop with that little hole...….


Oh Lord is all I can say.


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## bethh (Aug 22, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Nice job with the creek! Looks like she really enjoys her time in the water.


After eating some chicken poop, she heads straight for it.  There is a spot that she is chest deep.  She loves it.


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## bethh (Aug 22, 2018)

mystang89 said:


> This. I had to put livestock fencing on my gate, (same type as yours) in order to stop them.
> I love how you solved the problem with the creek.


We were lucky, those gates were given to us.  Love free!!


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## Baymule (Aug 23, 2018)

bethh said:


> We were lucky, those gates were given to us.  Love free!!


Awesome!


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## walkonfarms (Aug 24, 2018)

She is just a puppy and will be until two years old. She should not be left alone with the chicken unsupervised. Being a puppy she will end up chasing the chickens for something to do but she will try that with any livestock. She needs to be kept next to the chickens unless you are watching her. Even if you get  goats to put in with her you will need a couple of older goats that have been with an LGD so that they know how and when to teach her manors. They can and will teach proper behavior then you can and faster. My LGDs watch over goats, sheep, and chickens. It takes a lot of work the first two years to make them good guardians and not pests.


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## walkonfarms (Aug 24, 2018)

The goats can be either polled (have no horns naturally) or they were disbuded (horn buds are burned at a week or two old so that the horns to not grow) as kids. You do not have to buy goats with horns.


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## walkonfarms (Aug 24, 2018)

Young LGD learn to either climb out over fencing or dig under when they feel they need to tend to something on the other side of the fence. Be prepared to run a hot wire along the top of the fence to discourage climbing.


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## bethh (Aug 26, 2018)

walkonfarms said:


> She is just a puppy and will be until two years old. She should not be left alone with the chicken unsupervised. Being a puppy she will end up chasing the chickens for something to do but she will try that with any livestock. She needs to be kept next to the chickens unless you are watching her. Even if you get  goats to put in with her you will need a couple of older goats that have been with an LGD so that they know how and when to teach her manors. They can and will teach proper behavior then you can and faster. My LGDs watch over goats, sheep, and chickens. It takes a lot of work the first two years to make them good guardians and not pests.


Thank you


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## bethh (Nov 24, 2018)

I'll have to post some pictures of my girl soon.  She's getting so big.  I'm sure she's easily over 100 pounds.  She's as gentle as can be.  She's been watching for hawks.  Yesterday I was coming in and saw one circling rather low.  I hurried in and ran out to the deck and she was on her hind legs barking up a storm and off went the hawk.  She's been helping Herb with the mouse issue.  One came running out the other morning, and she was chasing it and putting her paw on it.  The ground was so soggy that it just pressed the mouse into it.  She'd lift her paw and do it again. Hope all of you are well and had a beautiful Thanksgiving.


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## Baymule (Nov 24, 2018)

So glad to see you. Yes, please post pictures! I know the holidays are busy, but you have been missed.


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## Latestarter (Nov 24, 2018)

What Bay said! Hope you had a great Thanksgiving and looking fwd to pics and further updates.


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## bethh (Nov 24, 2018)

Baymule said:


> So glad to see you. Yes, please post pictures! I know the holidays are busy, but you have been missed.


I had to go back to work full time until the end of the year to keep my insurance.  I enjoy my job but the days are long.  Come the first of the year, I’ll drop to part time to maintain some of the perks like discounted dog food ( Gracie eats a lot ) and free preventative care for our dogs.  I’ll be on much more.  Next year, we hope to add goats and I still want another LGD.  Time will tell.


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## Wehner Homestead (Nov 24, 2018)

Ugh! Gotta love regulations. 

You have been missed. You know how we love Gracie! Lol

Of course you need another LGD!


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## Latestarter (Nov 24, 2018)

Need enabled? You've come to JUST the right place!


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## bethh (Nov 26, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> Need enabled? You've come to JUST the right place!


My husband would care to differ on my needing to be enabled.


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## bethh (Nov 26, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> Ugh! Gotta love regulations.
> 
> You have been missed. You know how we love Gracie! Lol
> 
> Of course you need another LGD!


I haven't quite convinced my husband, yet.


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## bethh (Nov 28, 2018)




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## Baymule (Nov 28, 2018)

Just look at that smoochy face!!  Give her a big hug from me!


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## Latestarter (Nov 28, 2018)

What a sweetie!


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## bethh (Dec 5, 2018)

Gracie loves to come in at night and give her momma some love.


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## Mike CHS (Dec 5, 2018)

That is an awesome picture.


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## Baymule (Dec 5, 2018)

I love Gracie! She is beautiful and that is so sweet!


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## bethh (Dec 5, 2018)

Baymule said:


> I love Gracie! She is beautiful and that is so sweet!


Can you believe how big she's gotten?


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## bethh (Dec 5, 2018)

Mike CHS said:


> That is an awesome picture.


Thanks.  She makes me laugh every night when she's trying to sit with me or give me kisses.


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## Baymule (Dec 5, 2018)

bethh said:


> Can you believe how big she's gotten?


Have you saddled her up yet?


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## bethh (Dec 5, 2018)

Baymule said:


> Have you saddled her up yet?


Maybe Santa will bring me a saddle for Christmas.   Oh I didn't post about this... the other day, I went down to let our other dogs out and was taking longer than Gracie liked and she jumped up on the door, looking out at her it reminded me of a grizzly bear.  She towers over me.  Wish I had a picture to share.


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## Baymule (Dec 5, 2018)

She is beautiful. I love her schmoochy face!


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## Latestarter (Dec 6, 2018)

What a gorgeous Anatolian!   She has to be easily close to the same size as my Mel (50/50 toli/pyr). He runs right around 135-140 pounds. She may actually be larger   Though she's a big old cuddle bug with you, I doubt you'd have any problems with criminals at your place.   OK, I have to ask... what is that "blurred thing" right above her butt/your feet in the pic? Is that another dog?


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## bethh (Dec 6, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> What a gorgeous Anatolian!   She has to be easily close to the same size as my Mel (50/50 toli/pyr). He runs right around 135-140 pounds. She may actually be larger   Though she's a big old cuddle bug with you, I doubt you'd have any problems with criminals at your place.   OK, I have to ask... what is that "blurred thing" right above her butt/your feet in the pic? Is that another dog?


That blurred thing is Tybee our labradoodle.  Gracie is pyr/toli and Kangal.  I did a DNA test on her and it came back with Pyr/Toli and mixed.  I was hoping for more information than that.  She has a check up on Monday.  I can't wait to find out how much she weighs.


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## bethh (Dec 6, 2018)

Baymule said:


> She is beautiful. I love her schmoochy face!


Me too.  We did everything the wrong way of getting a guardian dog but couldn't be happier with her.  She makes me smile and her antics are amusing.


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