# Milking a goat with very small teats?



## mama24 (Apr 9, 2012)

I have a very young first freshener who is not very tame. She kidded yesterday and I milked her this morning and this evening. I got barely anything this morning, but this evening, we found that if my friend held her baby in her lap and sat in a chair directly in front of the milking stand, and we filled up the feeder with oats instead of mixed grains, she was ok with being milked. She still kicked a bit, but I got it done. I milked a cow as a child maybe twice and I was pleasantly surprised at how easily I remembered how to do it. Anyway, the issue is that her teats are VERY small. I mean like the size of my pinky finger, but shorter! They are itty bitty! I figured out a technique, but I'm wondering if there's a better way. Right now, I am just using my pointer and middle finger and rolling my thumb down. Her teats are way way too small to do the regular circle with thumb and pointer, then roll the other fingers down. So I just wasn't able to get much. I got about a cup total, but by the time I got that, she was freaking out again b/c all of my kids and my friends kids had gotten fed up with waiting and came in and were milling around making too much noise, etc. Even if that hadn't happened, I think with how little I get at a time, it would take me an hour to milk her out. Her udders still felt full and hard after I was done, and I want her to keep making lots of milk and not get mastitis, so I need to be able to milk her out!

I appreciate any advice! She's a great little goat, even if she isn't completely tame. I think she's going to settle in and be a decent milker though. Today was the first day and she was already calmer the 2nd go round.


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## jmead2003 (Apr 9, 2012)

We have a first time mom that kidded a couple weeks ago. We ran into the same problem with her. Her teats were incredibly small and it was very hard to milk her. 2 things- her teats have got bigger and longer from her buckling nursing, and also we made a homemade milker for about $40 dollars that works wonders on her! She still has small teats but not as tiny as they were.


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## mama24 (Apr 9, 2012)

Can you please tell me how you made the homemade milker? I have been thinking about how I could rig something. My friend told me I could borrow her hand breast pump since I have long ago gotten rid of mine (my youngest and last baby is almost 4) But she thinks the goat's nipples are way too long. I think they might not be, but I'm not sure. They are really very small. I am a little surprised b/c her Nubian grandma came from excellent milking lines and my friend I got her from said there were multiples on all sides of her families with extra milk to go around. But I guess making lots of milk is not the same as having great teats for humans to milk from! How did you make your homemade milker?


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm (Apr 9, 2012)

I have a thread on here about my FF. Once they were 4 weeks out, it got MUCH better. I would milk them some, but had gotten frustrated. At 8 weeks fresh I currently have no problems milking them. Hang in there! One of mine was untouchable until she kidded.


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## manybirds (Apr 9, 2012)

if the kid is only a day old i would wait a little longer to milk her. there may still be colostrum in the milk plus he should be getting most of it. as for small teats maybe just wait till the second freshening, generally 1st timers have small teats. my first milking doe had small teats to it was ver frustrating. what made it the most frustrating i think was that by the time you where done milking her out the milk had been out to long without being chilled and taisted funny turning the whole family off goats milk!


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## manybirds (Apr 9, 2012)

manybirds said:
			
		

> if the kid is only a day old i would wait a little longer to milk her. there may still be colostrum in the milk plus he should be getting most of it. as for small teats maybe just wait till the second freshening, generally 1st timers have small teats. my first milking doe had small teats to it was ver frustrating, i kept at it though and it wasn't so bad. what made it the most frustrating i think was that by the time you where done milking her out the milk had been out to long without being chilled and taisted funny turning the whole family off goats milk!


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## mama24 (Apr 10, 2012)

I'm trying to get colostrum for my friend who does wildlife rescue for fawns. She gets a LOT of fawns every year from idiots who find them and think they're abandoned. Then they don't call anyone till they're half dead. She is usually forced to use colostrum replacer from the feed store, but they are always sick for the first week or so unless she has fresh goat milk for them, which doesn't happen most years.

I think my girl has plenty to share. Her bag is huge and full and hard even after the baby nurses, and still was after I miked yesterday. Mama is from a line of does that typically produces triplets with milk to spare, so she should make plenty. I think she's making too much for just one and is uncomfortable.


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## jmead2003 (Apr 10, 2012)

For the homemade milker we got a hand vacuum pump used for bleeding brakes in cars. It has a gauge on top so you know how much pressure you are building. The pump is the most expensive part of the milker being around $35 dollars. Then you will also need a jar with a tight fitting lid. Some small tubing and a syringe. For the syringe we had a 60cc and that was WAY to big for her small teats so we went down to a 35cc and that was perfect. You will drill 2 holes in the lid of the milking jar and put 2 lengths of tubing in to the lid of the jar. Then on 1 of the tubes you hook up the hand pump and on the other tube the syringe. And then to milk put the syringe on the teat and pump until you start to get a flow of milk. The directions we read said not to go past 15 lbs of pressure but we found for our Macy that 8 lbs is just perfect to get the milk coming in a nice stream. If we go any higher she tries to kick it off. A google search for homemade goat milkers should provide with more information if I didn't do very good job explaining!! I know it has worked wonders for us and I love it! And it's nice because the milk is sealed inside the jar you don't have to worry about getting foreign objects in the milk. Oh and just as a side note, you take the plunger out of the syringe so the syringe fits on her teat!


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## quiltnchik (Apr 10, 2012)

jmead2003 said:
			
		

> For the homemade milker we got a hand vacuum pump used for bleeding brakes in cars. It has a gauge on top so you know how much pressure you are building. The pump is the most expensive part of the milker being around $35 dollars. Then you will also need a jar with a tight fitting lid. Some small tubing and a syringe. For the syringe we had a 60cc and that was WAY to big for her small teats so we went down to a 35cc and that was perfect. You will drill 2 holes in the lid of the milking jar and put 2 lengths of tubing in to the lid of the jar. Then on 1 of the tubes you hook up the hand pump and on the other tube the syringe. And then to milk put the syringe on the teat and pump until you start to get a flow of milk. The directions we read said not to go past 15 lbs of pressure but we found for our Macy that 8 lbs is just perfect to get the milk coming in a nice stream. If we go any higher she tries to kick it off. A google search for homemade goat milkers should provide with more information if I didn't do very good job explaining!! I know it has worked wonders for us and I love it! And it's nice because the milk is sealed inside the jar you don't have to worry about getting foreign objects in the milk. Oh and just as a side note, you take the plunger out of the syringe so the syringe fits on her teat!


These types of milkers can destroy udder tissue and ruin the doe over time because they create a steady vacuum, rather than a "sucking action" as a kid would do, so just keep that in mind.

As for milking a doe with small teats, just keep at it.  I bought a LaMancha FF a few weeks ago and, at the beginning, it was like milking a mouse!  However, since I stuck with it and milk her every day, her teats have elongated and she is MUCH easier to milk.


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## mama24 (Apr 10, 2012)

Her teats already seemed a little longer today. Still really skinny though! Only took me about 10-15 min to get the same amount I got yesterday in about 45.  I'm going to keep at it and hopefully start getting more, and getting it more easily.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 10, 2012)

Hobbles.  We had a doe (2nd freshener) that was constantly kicking the pail.  3 days of hobbles and they were no longer required.


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## quiltnchik (Apr 10, 2012)

sawfish99 said:
			
		

> Hobbles.  We had a doe (2nd freshener) that was constantly kicking the pail.  3 days of hobbles and they were no longer required.


I also use hobbles in the form of a lead rope tied around the back legs.  I've been using it for a couple of weeks and she still hasn't caught on, though doesn't fight the rope nearly as much since she realizes it doesn't get her anywhere, and it has definitely made milking time faster and more pleasant.


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## mama24 (Apr 10, 2012)

Thanks for your thoughts! She behaved really well today. And her teats actually seemed a little bigger. Might be my imagination, but they were three fingers length today instead of two. Lol


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## horsymom (May 16, 2012)

I'm new to having dairy goats, so I haven't tried it, but I was advised to use a human breast pump on a small teated doe,  any thoughts?


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## eweinHiscare (Oct 31, 2012)

jmead2003 said:
			
		

> For the homemade milker we got a hand vacuum pump used for bleeding brakes in cars. It has a gauge on top so you know how much pressure you are building. The pump is the most expensive part of the milker being around $35 dollars. Then you will also need a jar with a tight fitting lid. Some small tubing and a syringe. For the syringe we had a 60cc and that was WAY to big for her small teats so we went down to a 35cc and that was perfect. You will drill 2 holes in the lid of the milking jar and put 2 lengths of tubing in to the lid of the jar. Then on 1 of the tubes you hook up the hand pump and on the other tube the syringe. And then to milk put the syringe on the teat and pump until you start to get a flow of milk. The directions we read said not to go past 15 lbs of pressure but we found for our Macy that 8 lbs is just perfect to get the milk coming in a nice stream. If we go any higher she tries to kick it off. A google search for homemade goat milkers should provide with more information if I didn't do very good job explaining!! I know it has worked wonders for us and I love it! And it's nice because the milk is sealed inside the jar you don't have to worry about getting foreign objects in the milk. Oh and just as a side note, you take the plunger out of the syringe so the syringe fits on her teat!


thanks jmead2003, this is a good description. I think I can follow it to make a milker like you did.

I read elsewhere also that good results were had by only using 6 lbs pressure , and yours by 8lbs.,  that is way less than the 15 lbs which I will be careful not to do!

Probably the difference in suction is because of the goat herself and also by how tight a seal the jar has and especially where the tubes go through the lid ?

You did not mention anything to seal around the tubes and must not be necessary if they fit tight because you got good results.

I tried to find fittings for that purpose, (which there arent' any to be found at the hardware store) and that had been my biggest obstacle/concern to try making one.

So, to sum up my thoughts, maybe a less perfect seal is actually ok because it would act as a "pulsator" in that the pressure would relieve briefly,

 then  you would squeeze the pump again to get the flow of milk again. ??

I'm thinking that would overall be more realistic like a kid nursing...pulling milk with suck, then swallowing, then pulling more ,...swallow, etc... right ?

Well jmeads' post was not that recent so if anyone else also can comment, or confirm, or correct my view on this process please do.

I will not go above the 8 lbs pressure when I do try this with my doe or sheep, others have said the teats/udder can get ruined ! So I will be careful.

I'm going to use a mason quart jar which should be good.

thanks for anyone's input !


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## Backyardherder (Mar 5, 2013)

I understand this is an oldish thread, but I thought I'd ask for some advice...

Our two does kidded in the past few days. Since they only have one kid each, and since the kids seem to favor just one side of the udder, I decided to already start milking the other side, to prevent mastitis and make sure they continue making plenty of milk. 

 One is a first freshener and not a very patient milker, but her teats are fine to grasp (for a first-timer). The second is NOT a first freshener (she had kidded at least once, and perhaps twice before with the previous owner), but today when I tried to milk her for the first time I saw that her teats are absolutely minuscule (about as long as two fingers' width). It was hardly possible to milk her, I did it by using two fingers and my hand muscles got cramps all over. 

What worries me is that since she's not a first freshener, there isn't much chance of her teats growing, right?

When my husband got her I told him that the price was ridiculously low for a healthy doe who has already proven to be fertile and a good Mama; something was bound to be wrong... and we, as newbies, did not catch on it until now (also, she was not "in milk" when we bought her - we bred her later). 

What should we do? Try to sell her and be honest about this defect? Or is there any milking trick that would help us?

Another consideration is that these traits are hereditary, so any doe kids we have from this goat in the future might also have inconveniently tiny teats.

Any advice is much appreciated!


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## sawfish99 (Mar 5, 2013)

You could buy a milking machine (a real goat milker - not a human breast pump).  That will be able to milk her out.  Yes, the teats are hereditary.  You can always try through breeding to improve that in the offspring.  It largely depends on the purpose for having her.  If the purpose is family milker, I would probably slaughter and put meat in the freezer instead of taking a loss on the doe (after the baby is weaned).


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## Backyardherder (Mar 6, 2013)

sawfish99 said:
			
		

> You could buy a milking machine (a real goat milker - not a human breast pump).  That will be able to milk her out.  Yes, the teats are hereditary.  You can always try through breeding to improve that in the offspring.  It largely depends on the purpose for having her.  If the purpose is family milker, I would probably slaughter and put meat in the freezer instead of taking a loss on the doe (after the baby is weaned).


I'm afraid slaughtering is out of the question... not only for emotional reasons, but we're also Jewish and would need someone with a proper license for kosher slaughter, then there's all the processing, and we don't have freezer space. Too much hassle. 

I know it's possible to try and "breed up", but I would really rather start with a decent doe to begin with. Well, this will be a lesson for us - a very low price is always for a reason. 

I suppose the best option for us will be to sell her or give her away while being honest about this defect, and look for another doe.


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## Mf628 (Mar 13, 2013)

The trait for teat size is hereditary, but if you breed her to a buck with a history of large teats then the offspring shouldn't have that problem. I have a doe with the smallest teats, and her daughter actually has huge teats and she hasn't even freshened yet!


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## lovinglife (Apr 7, 2013)

I have a doe also with tiny teats.  I have milked other goats and had no problems, but this doe is something else.  I have seen a design for a hand milker I am going to try.  You use the syringe and tubing only you connect it to a hand pump sprayer, just a new industrial spray bottle like you would use for window cleaner....no constant pressure and you spray the milk into your container.  Super excited to try this as I have been stressing over how to milk her when the kids are weaned.


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