# Dwarf or full-size goats?



## Amina (Dec 3, 2016)

Hi everyone,
I'm hoping to get a few dairy goats this coming year, and I am having a lot of trouble deciding between Nigerian Dwarf goats versus a full-size breed. My husband and I are buying a 2 acre property and a lot of it is taken up by barns and other outbuildings. Let's say we've got 3/4 acre of mostly grass and a little bit of woods plus plenty of barn space to devote to the goats (we'll also have chickens and maybe ducks, as well as a garden, so the goats won't have the whole property to themselves). What things do I need to consider when choosing?
Thanks!


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## NH homesteader (Dec 3, 2016)

Welcome! You've come to the right place for goat advice! The first thing to consider is how much milk you need and what you want to use it  for (drinking,  cheese,   soapmaking etc.).  How many goats do you want to have? Nigerian dwarf goats don't give much milk but it's high butterfat (and delicious!) 

I have a few Nigerians and also have some mini alpines,  which are a cross between a full size Alpine and a nigerian.  I haven't milked them yet but size wise they are perfect.  They're in between the two breeds size wise and I'm hoping they give a good amount of milk.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 3, 2016)

We have Standard, Miniature, and Dwarf goats.

There are so many factors but this is what I ask those that are inquiring on my farm...  
I would copy paste but don't have time right now.
This is based on our experience- 
Personally I love having all 3.  
Looking at needs IMO is best.

http://www.winginitfarms.com/what-s-the-right-goat-pt-1


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## Amina (Dec 3, 2016)

I don't think we'll need all that much milk though it's a little difficult to predict. My husband and I were effectively vegan for many years, just because we are uncomfortable with conventional farming. Now we'd like to have a source of dairy from animals that we know had a good life. Anyway, that's why it's hard to predict exactly how much because we eat almost no dairy products right now. I am planning to use the milk mostly for making cheese, but also for drinking and making yogurt. I doubt I'd get into soap-making.

Then again, I said the same thing about only needing a couple of hens for eggs. I now have 13 chickens and I'm planning to add more! lol.


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## Hens and Roos (Dec 3, 2016)

Welcome , lots of great advice on here! x2 on what @NH homesteader mentioned.

We have 4 nigies does and have milked 2 summers now. This fall we added 1 Lamancha doe who we plan to milk this coming year.  Not everyone in our house drinks the goat milk but my DS(14) can easily drink half a gallon a day.  We like to make cheese and ice cream as well.


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## Amina (Dec 3, 2016)

Hi Southern by Choice, thanks for posting that link. I'm surprised that dwarf and mini goats are listed as having the best feed conversion. That's something that's important to me as of course I'd like to save a little money on feed, but time spent on clean up after milking is also important. Hmm. Maybe the minis are the best compromise.


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## Amina (Dec 3, 2016)

Which breed produces the best tasting milk?


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## NH homesteader (Dec 3, 2016)

Depends on who you ask! And whether you want high or low butterfat content.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 3, 2016)

On my farm I like our Lamanchas milk the best. However let me clarify.. 
Our one Lamancha has extremely sweet milk with great fat... I don't know why, she just does. Nigerians pretty much are going to have the highest butterfat but IMO that isn't the whole picture. Too much emphasis is put on that IMO. One of our Nigies (she is actually a unregistered doe where all the others are registered) is my coffee creamer girl.

"Trouble" is a Miniature Lamancha and by far is our best dairy goat as far as the wholepackage goat. She is mid size, gives rich creamy milk, stays in lactation for minimum 10 months but will go over a year and as 2nd freshener produces just shy of 8 lbs (just shy of 1 gallon).

We have Lamancha, Nubian, Mini mancha, mini nubian, Nigerian Dwarf, and Kikos. We had an Alpine but sold her.

Everyone who tries Millies milk wants HER (Millie is a Lamancha) and her daughters milk (Trouble). 

What you feed also contributes, but each goat's milk will be somewhat different.

Consider you will need about 1 gallon or a little more for a batch of cheese. 

Everytime I want to say "such and such" is my favorite breed I can't. This is why I have so many. 
Lamanchas however steal my heart!  IMO they are the most affectionate and loving they act like dogs. 

Feed conversion is also going to vary. Nigerians generally have the best however some will (and this is all breeds) will convert feed to weight and not milk in the pail. 

I encourage you to visit some farms take your time and see what best suits you.

Over the years we have had many that see our Lamanchas or Mini manchas that just hate the Lamancha ears yet the more they are around them they fall in love. 

Goats are wonderful animals and really I love them all so IMO there is no "one" breed that is the best. 

Just be sure to look at farms that are testing for CAE, CL, Johnes.
CL & Johnes are zoonotic.


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## NH homesteader (Dec 3, 2016)

I also can't stick with one breed! I've heard that Lamanchas have the best milk...  I've also heard that Nubians do. 

I was in love with the idea of Toggenburgs until I read that their milk is very strong and "goaty".  

Like Southern said,  look around and see what is near you.  If you can find a good clean herd to buy from,  that's most important. Maybe you can buy some milk to try before you buy goats. 

I cut down cheese recipes and make them in smaller batches.  Not sure if that works with hard cheeses but it has worked fine for chevre.


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## Latestarter (Dec 3, 2016)

Not sure where you're located so don't know your specific laws/rules/etc. But perhaps you can use the milk/cheeses you make to generate a little income to help defray the cost of keeping the goats. Especially if there's a nearby farmers market. I don't have my goats yet (coming soon!) but I used to sell my excess chicken eggs to friends/neighbors and at work to folks who wanted good, all natural, humanely raised and naturally fed chicken eggs. I'm sure most if not all of them would have been more than happy to buy cheeses as well. There may also be a market for all natural soaps and lotions you can make from goats milk. There are quite a few options really... Just some thoughts. Oh, and since the does will need to have kids in order to produce milk, you'll need to consider what you'll do with the babies... if selling them, you need to know the market in your area as to whether it would be better to start out with a registered herd vice a herd on non-papered animals.


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## Amina (Dec 3, 2016)

Gosh, I sure hope I am able to stick to one breed, whatever I pick! Chicken math is enough of a struggle. I don't need goat math getting out of hand too!

Here in North Carolina, excess milk can be sold for pets but not for human consumption, unfortunately. So maybe I can sell a little pet milk... not sure how that will go, exactly.

The point about selling the kids is a good one, and for that reason I've thought it would be good to get purebred goats instead of mixed breeds. But I am not sure what breeds are in high demand or not, or how difficult it is to sell a non-papered goat.


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## NH homesteader (Dec 3, 2016)

Well if you're in NC @Southern by choice and @Goat Whisperer might be able to help you out deciding! And @OneFineAcre...  Lots of NC folks on here


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 3, 2016)

@Amina Glad to see you are looking up the milk laws! Most people who are new to goats forget about that and expect to sell milk for human consumption but in most states you need to be a dairy to do such.

Lots of great goats out there! To help clarify- the Mini's have their own registry and aren't looked at as just mixed breed goats. Just something to remember, whatever breed of goat you decide to get 

Welcome to BYH


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## Latestarter (Dec 3, 2016)

Some other considerations... If you want the goats for milk. Some breeds are "year round" breeders like the Nigerian dwarfs and this "could" include "mini's" and their offspring, as they have some percentage of Nigie in them. Most are seasonal and come into heat cycles any time after say August/September through ~January. Gestation is ~145-150 days, 5 months, and most want the does to kid in the early spring to avoid higher temps and hence bugs/flys and pneumonia issues. Most animals have about a ten month milk cycle or less, though some animals will stay in milk for over a year if you let them. Milk production also generally tends to decrease over time. So you'll want to plan your goat purchases (breed and proven dairy quality) and breedings to have milk year round.

As for the papers issue, most sanctioned shows as well as 4H require papered animals except for "showmanship" awards. That's a whole 'nuther subject in and of itself. @OneFineAcre is a Nigerian Dwarf show person so you could ask him more specific questions. There's also existing discussions on that subject in the threads. Might be a good idea to do some browsing there first and then ask questions  save a lot of time... You could also contact your local 4H and ask them.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 3, 2016)

@Amina 
I've seen my name mentioned a couple of times so Welcome from Zebulon NC
We breed Nigerians and we are on 5 acres about 3 1/2 currently fenced
I can't tell you what is best for you but we sure love our Nigies
I have a farm thread you can look at and I would be happy to help any way I can


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## Amina (Dec 17, 2016)

@OneFineAcre 
Thanks for the warm welcome! Where can I find your farm thread? 

And in choosing to have Nigerians, was/is milk production a big factor in the decision or are you primarily focused on showing them?


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## TAH (Dec 17, 2016)

Here, I attached the link http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/one-fine-acre-milk-test-day.29447/


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## Amina (Dec 17, 2016)

Thanks!


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 17, 2016)

Amina said:


> @OneFineAcre
> Thanks for the warm welcome! Where can I find your farm thread?
> 
> And in choosing to have Nigerians, was/is milk production a big factor in the decision or are you primarily focused on showing them?


We chose Nigies because of their size
When we started we lived in a neighborhood
We started showing because we thought it would be a good family activity our daughter was 6 when we started showing

We have solid milkers
We are in our last month of 305 day
milk testing
All except our first fresheners have earned milk stars in all 3 categories
Volume Fat and Protein
Our FF stared in fat and protein


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 17, 2016)

Also
I don't believe there is a disconnect in how an animal does in the show ring and on linear appraisal and how they produce
Good conformation, good feet and legs, level top line, good udder attachment would mean she would have a longer productive life
It's more than just how much she produces in a year, but how she
produces for 10 or even 12 years


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## SavannahLeigh (Dec 25, 2016)

We have 3 dwarfs, and their milk is AMAZING! It's literally like drinking full fat half and half!!


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## goatgirl1022 (Jan 1, 2017)

Why not try both? I (personally) prefer Nigerian Dwarf milk, because it's sweeter and thicker, but when I mix it with my Alpine milk it tastes like the milk you buy in the store. I like both breeds a lot! Also, are you going to breed them? You could get a Nigerian buck, and a full size female, and get the best of both worlds! Delicious, sweet, milk in larger quantity!


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## Amina (Jan 29, 2017)

Yep, I am going to breed them. And I'd rather sell babies than just eat them all. I was thinking probably pure, rather than mixed breeds, would sell better, regardless of whether I decide to get registered stock. Plus, I was thinking of just having one breed to minimize my inevitable goat math.  I definitely want some polled genetics in my tiny herd (maybe find a nice polled buck), and I will definitely buy stock that has been tested for CAE, CL, and Johnes. I was also thinking maybe the best way for me to start would be to buy a doe with her baby. Other than that, I haven't decided anything. Maybe we'll just see what turns up when I'm ready.


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