# is it Meningeal Worm or CAE?



## amyduddie (Oct 23, 2011)

I lost one 5 month old kid to this parasite and believe my other little doe kid (her sister) has this as well. Has anyone any experience with this and does anyone know f the paralysis can be reversed?
Please help

Additional information: She is eating quite well, solid well formed stool. 
Local large animal vet did not even mention this parasite as possibilty, though after much online research seems to be exactly what she has...
Head falls to one side periodically as if she cant lift it.
While back legs stiffen if she is suspended she cannot support her own weight at all, front legs are curled under and completely unresponsive.
She is 100% alert and chatty as ever.
All blood wrok showed normal red and white cell counts, stool sample came back fine.
Vet gave me cydectin for her.


in your experience, does this sound like cae  more than meningeal?
 (i plan to draw and mail sample myself instead of head to vet.) 
she and her sis came down with diarreah on october 7th and continued to fight that through the 16th, when her sister was lost. during that first week they were given injection wormer, red cell, injected b12 vitamin and antidiarreah plus electrolytes. 
then, monday the 17th she went on cypro injections and oral wormer from the vet for four days. she lost use of her legs that monday, the 17th. she now can stand if i put her in a standing postition for about 15 minutes before her front legs and she took several steps for the first time in weeks last night. but her front legs are the first to to give out and she cannot right herself from lying down.
her g.i. is normal and her personality sparkling.
all red blood cel and white cellcounts are normal and there is no anemia present...


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## Ms. Research (Oct 23, 2011)

So sorry to hear about your loss.  

Elevan, one of our Moderators, did a lot of research on parasites, 

Here's the thread that talks about them, and ways to control them.  

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=139991#p139991

I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful.  Don't have goats yet so don't have the "hands on" experience.  But we have many Goat People here that do.  Very helpful crowd.

Wishing you luck with your other doe.


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## amyduddie (Oct 23, 2011)

Additional information: She is eating quite well, solid well formed stool. 
Local large animal vet did not even mention this parasite as possibilty, though after much online research seems to be exactly what she has...
Head falls to one side periodically as if she cant lift it.
While back legs stiffen if she is suspended she cannot support her own weight at all, front legs are curled under and completely unresponsive.
She is 100% alert and chatty as ever.
All blood wrok showed normal red and white cell counts, stool sample came back fine.
Vet gave me cydectin for her but that is not listed as killing this parasite, cannot reach him by phone until tomorrow.
Again, thanks all.


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## amyduddie (Oct 23, 2011)

Also, her legs went both back together with the front going within the same day or so, does this sound indicative of this parasite?


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## ksalvagno (Oct 23, 2011)

Usually with meningeal worm, the animal loses the back legs before the front legs. You want to give Safeguard at 1cc per 7 lbs for 5 days. You also want to give Banamine at 1cc per 100 lbs for swelling in the spinal column. Also give a shot of Ivomec at whatever dose you would give in your area for injection. The Ivomec HAS to be injected for meningeal worm. You have to catch it early. Like as soon as you see weakness in the back end. If your one doe is still alive, I would at least try it. I'm so sorry for your loss.

Ivomec and Cydectin are preventatives. Safeguard is the one that will kill it. The only way to confirm Mworm is by spinal tap or necropsy.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 23, 2011)

Even if you treat you still have a fair chance of not getting all the worms or of the spinal damage being too great. We treated heavily for it and then lost the doe 8 months later due to unhealed damage or a missed worm.  Go ahead and treat with ivermectin and safeguard but I just want to give fair warning that she may look ok for a while.   I would consider repeating the treatment in a month or two just in case some were missed.


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## amyduddie (Oct 23, 2011)

Her back legs are now almost able to support her as long as I give her mild support under her ribs. Her front legs however cant hold her up and curl under. I am thinking I will continue the physical therapy and try a sling off and on through the next couple days. She had a nice bath tonight and is sleeping comfortable now, after finishing up her oatmeal and yogurt. There is question as to whether she had muscle loss from lack of limb use instead of paralysis, she does voluntarily move legs but cant get up under them. Any more thoughts? Every bit that everyone shares helps at least a little!
If she can regain her legs we plan to retreat every three weeks for three times, as suggested by  the vet. Poor Mama goat missses her!


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## Roll farms (Oct 23, 2011)

When our llama had it, the vet had us shave his back, then pour DMSO on it, and then inject ivo sub q on his back.  She said it'd get it 'deeper' where the cause of the problem was.

I am *not* suggesting this, just telling you what our vet had us try.  Unfortunately he was too far gone and we ended up putting him down.  Broke my heart.


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## elevan (Oct 23, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> So sorry to hear about your loss.
> 
> Elevan, one of our Moderators, did a lot of research on parasites,
> 
> ...


Meningeal worm is a whole different ballgame than what I was studying on.


I don't have any experience with meningeal but I wish you and your herd the best


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## Ms. Research (Oct 23, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Ms. Research said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Elevan for putting that out.   Goats are a whole different ballgame for me.  So many different parasites.  Wishing you luck on your study this spring.  I've learn a lot from your continuing work.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 24, 2011)

Personally I would look at giving her a dose of Bose in case she has having joint/muscle difficulty on top of this. But too much selenium can be toxic so this is done with caution.  

Banamine helped my girl as well and we treated with Safeguard and Ivermectin. We did not have the DMSO thing suggested but were actually looking into it as a follow up treatment as a just in case when she totally went down.


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## amyduddie (Oct 24, 2011)

the vet is now suggesting it may be cae which can be diagnosed by bloodwork but means another hour and change journey each way in the car and from what i am being told will mean she wont recover use of her legs. difficult to know what to do with her.


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## elevan (Oct 24, 2011)

A blood test for CAE is simple.  You can even draw the sample yourself and send it in for testing to Bio Tracking .  CAE can be managed.


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## amyduddie (Oct 24, 2011)

in your experience, does this sound like cae though? (i plan to draw and mail sample myself instead of head to vet.) 
she and her sis came down with diarreah on october 7th and continued to fight that through the 16th, when her sister was lost. during that first week they were given injection wormer, red cell, injected b12 vitamin and antidiarreah plus electrolytes. 
then, monday the 17th she went on cypro injections and oral wormer from the vet for four days. she lost use of her legs that monday, the 17th. she now can stand if i put her in a standing postition for about 15 minutes before her front legs give out but cannot right herself from lying down.
 her g.i. is normal and her personality sparkling.
all red blood cel and white cellcounts are normal and there is no anemia present...


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## elevan (Oct 24, 2011)

I have fortunately never had to deal with CAE.  There are members here who have, so I'm sure that they'll advise you.  You might want to go back to your first post and edit it to change your title and add this new information.

Have you been able to get a Bo-Se shot into her?  It's Rx, so you'll need to get it from your vet if you don't already have some.  It's good to have on hand for kidding season too.


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## NDgal (Oct 29, 2011)

You would want to test for CAE, as some symptoms line up w/that daignosis. At her age it would likely be the encephalitis type - paralysis and head tilting among the symptoms. Have you ever tested your goats for this?  Were these kids bottle fed or dam raised? Do you know the CAE status of the mother?
But on the other hand what you describe could match other illnesses too, like something metabolic ala polio.  Or white muscle.
I've had two cases of deerworm. I got on it the same day I saw symptoms - in one case the doe simply collapsed on her rear; the other was more subtle lameness.  Treated w/ 3 days of Ivermectin injections, Dexamethesone and Thiamine. Both recovered, althought the first doe retains a limp. Both goats did not exhibit diarrhea.
If it's deerworm you really have to hit it hard immediately or chances of recovery lessen.


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## amyduddie (Oct 29, 2011)

have a test out to lab now for cae, waiting on results. 
these two were dam raised, do not believe mother was ever tested. 
she continues to eat well, is walking some and can remain standing about three hours at a time before her front legs give. 
she regained 4 pounds in a one week span, from 12 last vet visit to 16 this week.


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 29, 2011)

It doesn't sound like CAE to me, but you never know.


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## NDgal (Oct 29, 2011)

It does sound like improvement and I hope she keeps it up! Wish there were a test for deerworm but unfortunately you can't confirm without necropsy.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 29, 2011)

NDgal said:
			
		

> It does sound like improvement and I hope she keeps it up! Wish there were a test for deerworm but unfortunately you can't confirm without necropsy.


If by deerworm you mean Meningeal Worm, it can be confirmed through spinal tap. But that is a really expensive route to go.


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