# Wintering animals?



## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

Sorry; this is not a specific species question so I wasn't sure where to post it. Anyways, how many pounds of silage would equal one pound of fresh forage? The majority of my meat animals would be in the freezer by winter but the breeders and some of the meat animals will still be with me over the winter. I don't want to feed any commercial food, so would silage, hay, and a limited amount of homegrown grains sustain the animals? What species can eat silage? Thanks!


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## BrownSheep (Jan 27, 2013)

We feed alfalfa hay pretty much exclusively when they are off of pasture. The showlambs get show chow but besides that we don't ever purchase grain for our sheep. Some do how ever feed grain for the last bit of pregnancy. 

We have fed silage before and our sheep loved it. I cant remember what exactly we fed because this was way back in the days of only three ewes. My only concern with silage would be purchasing/ making it. Silage corn and everything connected with it is a pretty big business here due to our dairy industries. People make it and sell it in bulk. I might be able to buy some  if I bought several dump truck loads. As for home production I haven't a clue.

Here are a couple articles I found. 
http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=G2061
http://www.farminfo.org/beef/silage-m.htm

Don't know how helpful it will be.


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## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

So they could live off of just alfalfa hay in the winter? How much is a one-ton bale of that where you live? (I understand it differs in price due to many factors.)


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## SheepGirl (Jan 27, 2013)

My sheep are on pasture all the time. Now that there is no more grass (they've done grazed it to about an inch tall now) I am setting up a pen this Thurs (my next day off--I just have to put up the wire part of the fence; I have the posts all put in) and my ram will move out into his own pen (finally got a shelter built for him) and everybody gets grass hay (it's really just 75% weeds and 25% grass but they LOVE it....a lot better than the timothy and timothy/grass mix I fed them before). Starting in less than a week my ewes will start getting 1/2 lb of grain per day each until they lamb, to give them extra nutrients for their fetuses to grow. They will stay in the pen until the grass is 4-5" tall, which will probably be mid- to late March, depending on the weather.

The only other thing I have to deal with is their water--bred ewes drink a lot of water and they need to stay hydrated and they can't drink solid ice! So I have four 2 and 5 gallon buckets out there and then I bring in two at night to thaw, and set them out there in the day, and bring the other two in to thaw and take them back out at night. So basically I'm rotating them because I don't have a stock tank heater (mainly because my main waterer is a cheap plastic 9 gallon bucket you get at Lowe's for like $10 and I don't want the heater to melt the plastic).

As for silage--we've never fed it and I'm not too familiar with it. I just know that it smells REALLY bad! (The samples of silage I've been in contact with for a judging contest, anyway.) Basically it's fermenting, so it's rotting. But the cows love it. My neighbor's cows, anyway. He has a dairy farm and he feeds silage; he has it stored outside under huge white tarps with tires on top. Some days when I'm out feeding my sheep I can see him with a CAT getting silage and bringing it into the barn. But generally, as far as I know, about one pound of hay = two pounds of corn silage.

This is how my neighbor stores his silage: http://industryupdate.com.au/sites/default/public/Products/winter feed1.jpg


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## Back to Nature (Jan 27, 2013)

> My sheep are on pasture all the time.


I intend to keep my animals on pasture, but in the winter they won't get enough forage to stay alive. (I live in Michigan.) I've heard of solar-heated tanks, where the color or material absorbs sunlight and warms the tank. I also heard that those tanks grow bacteria easily... Any thoughts on that?


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## purplequeenvt (Jan 27, 2013)

We feed plain old grass hay during the winter and start with grain 4-6 weeks before lambing. We don't use heaters in any of our water tanks. Some groups drink most of their water in between feedings so that they don't have much ice to knock out and other groups have smaller tanks that are easy to dump ice out of.

I wouldn't worry about solar-heated tanks growing too much bacteria during the winter, especially in MI.  I can see how it might be a problem during warm weather. If you are concerned about, clean the tank more frequently.

I don't know much about silage. I know that cows eat it, but it seems like I've heard that it isn't very good for sheep and goats, just can't remember where/why.....


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## Back to Nature (Jan 28, 2013)

Do pregnant/lactating animals _need_ grain? Or can they survive and maintain condition on quality forage? Are there any other plants that would work for that?


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## SheepGirl (Jan 28, 2013)

It would really need to be high quality forage; very nutrient dense. If you have a sheep carrying a large set of twins or triplets, there isn't enough room for babies AND three pounds of hay. A half a pound of grain takes up a LOT less space in a ewe's body than does one pound of hay (the approximate equivalent).


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 28, 2013)

I think they do need grain or something more then just browse/forage. My goats are doing great on really good quality grass hay and lots of good browse but I plan on starting noble goat dairy pellets the last month of pregnancy and during lactation.


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## Back to Nature (Jan 28, 2013)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> It would really need to be high quality forage; very nutrient dense. If you have a sheep carrying a large set of twins or triplets, there isn't enough room for babies AND three pounds of hay. A half a pound of grain takes up a LOT less space in a ewe's body than does one pound of hay (the approximate equivalent).


Thank you for telling me that. I was never convinced about the need for grain, but I totally understand now about the not being enough space for enough hay. What grains do you feed? I want to grow my own grains, if possible, or at least some of them.


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## Royd Wood (Jan 28, 2013)

oh trust me to spill the applecart and disagree 
Have to just say my sheep get no grain before, during or after, they just get hay and its not the best this year here so I'm paying a little more attention to their condition and the lambs.
Dont like fat breeding stock and mine can get fat pretty quick on 2nd cut if I turn my back


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## SheepGirl (Jan 28, 2013)

I feed Southern State's 16% textured sheep feed. It is a complete sheep feed and is milled at the branch I buy it from.


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## BrownSheep (Jan 28, 2013)

I am with Royd. No grains here. We do feed high quality alfalfa hay.

As for price per ton I think we paid about 200/ton


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## SheepGirl (Jan 28, 2013)

Mine get relatively low quality grass hay. It's green, but very weedy. Don't know what cutting it is. It's probably 1st cutting. Mainly stems, too. But the sheep love it. They stand at the gate waiting for me to arrive with their hay every night  So I have to feed grain to make up for my low quality hay. If I were feeding alfalfa or high quality 2nd cutting or even 3rd cutting grass hay I probably wouldn't feel the need to feed grain...or at least not as much.


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## BrownSheep (Jan 28, 2013)

Mine are such butts! They'll eat the stems if there's nothing else. Ours is green and mostly leaves. Last years had a little bit of thistle in every couple of bales but other than that you can't get much better. Our "neighbors" down the road sell it and deliver it for us and with their harrow bed they pretty much stack it as well.


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## Royd Wood (Jan 28, 2013)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> Mine get relatively low quality grass hay. It's green, but very weedy. Don't know what cutting it is. It's probably 1st cutting. Mainly stems, too. But the sheep love it. They stand at the gate waiting for me to arrive with their hay every night  So I have to feed grain to make up for my low quality hay. If I were feeding alfalfa or high quality 2nd cutting or even 3rd cutting grass hay I probably wouldn't feel the need to feed grain...or at least not as much.


Yes we tend to be lucky here and have great second cut leafy hay full of goodness but this year it was a joke - just some stalky first cut then nothing. Like I said I will keep a tab on them for sure as Spring is a while off


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## Back to Nature (Jan 29, 2013)

BrownSheep said:
			
		

> I am with Royd. No grains here. We do feed high quality alfalfa hay.
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> As for price per ton I think we paid about 200/ton


So instead of grains you could just stock up on really good alfalfa and feed that? (Assuming you can find it, of course.) I just want to do the best I can for my future animals and make their lives as comfortable and natural as possible, and I have learned that they aren't designed to eat grain..


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## SheepGirl (Jan 29, 2013)

Back to Nature said:
			
		

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I hate to open up a can of worms here, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Ruminants are herbivorous animals, they are designed to eat plants, with a four compartment stomach and a long intestinal tract. Grain is synonymous with seed. They're the same thing. Corn is the seed of the corn plant, which is a type of grass. Same with barley, oats, soybeans, etc...they are all seeds of grass or legume plants. My sheep routinely eat the seed heads off the grass in their field. They also eat the seed heads in their hay--orchardgrass, timothy, and whatever the species of grass is that's in their hay now lol.

Also--livestock are domesticated so there really isn't anything 'natural' about them. They have been designed to meet the needs of humans--being able to digest grains better, growing faster, producing more milk, building more muscle, etc--and are a far cry from their wild cousins. IMO if you want to raise something as naturally as possible you should raise wild animals, Mouflon sheep, Bison, feral hogs, wild rabbits. They are not very productive critters (giving birth to one, or rarely, two babies (not including hogs), babies reach sexual maturity slower, are generally very light muscled, etc) but thrive in an all forage diet (which may or may not include seeds/grains depending on the environment/climate), because that is what is available to them. Humans 'bred up' these animals through selective breeding starting hundreds of years ago to be more productive, which in turn requires more nutrients. Something low quality to average forages can't provide. Seeds (grains) are very nutrient dense (we learned in horticulture that seeds need these nutrients as a 'jump-start' to grow) and they can provide the animal with the nutrients the roughage part of the plant is missing/lacking a lot of.

Don't get me wrong--I don't feed my sheep a bunch of grain. But I do feed grain. My sheep are expected to get on average 90+% of their diet from roughages (grass, hay, etc) and only about 10% of their diet consists of grains/seeds, which they only get in late gestation, lactation, growth, and breeding season. All the other times (when they are on a maintenance diet--ie not productive) they are expected to sustain themselves on roughages only.

Okay, I will shut up now.


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## BrownSheep (Jan 29, 2013)

Back to Nature said:
			
		

> BrownSheep said:
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Actually, ruminates do quite well on grain as long as they are properly transitioned on to it. We do not find the need to feed grain because of our high quality hay that we are able to purchase. If I was feeding grass hay like SheepGirl I would probably feed a bit of grain as well. Or if we have a momma who needs a bit of a jump start developing milk for triplets.  Otherwise it is cheaper for us not to feed it and the animals are doing great with out it.

As long as your animals keep weight you can really feed whatever.

Where is everyone else? Why is it just us sheep folk over here?

GAS -sers! Cow people! Pig Posse ! Jump in!


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## bonbean01 (Jan 29, 2013)

Well...I am another sheep person...but had to comment on Sheepgirl's post...I agree 100 percent.  I spend alot of time with them and gauge their condition to see if feeds are too much or not.  They have 2nd cut good hay, and are fed sheep pellets made locally for our area to cover vitamin and minerals...plus we are not high enough here in seleium and that's in their feed too.  In the last month of pregnancy they are up to two feedings of pellets, mornings and evening and that will continue their first month while nursing, and then gradually be decreased in pellets.

When there is lush grass, they still get some everyday, but not as much.  Plus, for treats and moving them.


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## Back to Nature (Jan 30, 2013)

BrownSheep said:
			
		

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Well, I'll with just hay and monitor their condition. If they really need it I'll feed grain, but I'd rather not if possible. We'll see, I suppose. But I see what you mean about the seeds. Just like in my other threads, it sounds like balance is key.



> GAS -sers! Cow people! Pig Posse ! Jump in!


Sorry if this turns out to be an obvious question, but what is a GAS-ser?


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## BrownSheep (Jan 30, 2013)

Goat Addiction Syndrome -ers


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 30, 2013)

In other words, ME.  I am totally goat addicted.   

And yes, I do agree that ruminants do just fine with grain and it is important in their diet, especially when access to a great deal of browse/pasture is not available.  I feed mostly hay blend because we do not have lots of woody acreage here for our goats to peruse, but they are given a daily ration of feed to make up for it.   I don't think I would go for an animal being completely grain raised which is the practice of some (and it works for them, just would not be my preference).


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## Back to Nature (Jan 31, 2013)

Oh. lol Well, that's me. My friends would get irritated cause every time we went to the zoo, I'd want to go see the goats.


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