# Sweetened's 2016 kidding thread



## Sweetened

l never thought Id post another one of these threads, but here I am, and with dwarves to boot!  

I wouldnt purposefully breed for January, but an American registered buck got loose with the girls and wouldnt stay out. The owners, who were getting out of goats, more or less gave up trying to keep him penned. These 4 girls are bred Pholia Farm UB Pendelton, and his pedigree can be seen on some American goat registry, though I cant remember which.

Any thoughts on who you think will kid first? How about how many each has in there!

Friendly reminder: please forgive typos and picture quality, from my phone.

Lavender - drops trips or quads, will only raise two, guessing she will have triplets and deliver second.






Poplar - delivers twins. My guess is second last





Daisy - delivers trips, usually, has had quads. Im guessing triplets, delivering last. She is the smallest doe.



 

The amazing mystery Gardenia. Im guessing trips or quads and going to deliver first. She was a regular quadder before her bad kidding, ff to triplets. Sometimes she looks MASSIVE and she is very uncomfortable. Her udder is progressing still. Fingers crossed for healthy kids from her, would love love love a doeling or two.



 

Guess the pink and blue too if youd like. And hey, if you have a 2016 kidding thread im not following yet, link me to it!


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## Poka_Doodle

Following! Watching Kidding threads is a lot of fun


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## babsbag

Gardenia is either first or has a litter in there or maybe both. She is HUGE. It is hard tell as to order of kidding without the udder shots, that is usually the give away for me. Thankfully I have dates on all of mine this year but one and that is really good thing as guessing kidding dates on 26+ does would make me crazy. 

The goat registry is probably ADGA. American Dairy Goat Association.  Pholia Farms has nice goats...are you getting the buck?


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## Sweetened

Everyone is putting milk in their bag now, no one was cooperating! Everyonr was being spooky yesterday because the pup was out and hes overly curious.im not getting pendelton, mind you, I know who has him. He was WAY out of my price range.  I have a couple pictures of him under reference animals at http://www.steadfastfarm.ca/large-livestock.html . Price aside, at the time we suspected he had gotten the two young doelings as well but it doesnt seem like it. I think they are pregnant, but not due until March, which would make them Beaus.  Its killing me not knowing their due dates! Im so used to hand breeding.  I will be keeping a buckling out of this group, maybe two, because of thise genetics. I will do everything i can to make selections on doelings. I would love to keep them all through first freshening and pick from there. I guess i can keep them until fall, the number I keep would go up if we were able to get our own haying equipment.  Regardless, as long as everyone has a doe, ill be keeping one as replavements as these girls are all 7, 8, and 9 years of age. I will keep ALL doelings off gardenia. Anyone who can come back from what she went through and have kids despite a vet doing treatments for years and saying itll never happen, thats vitality and the ability to heal that I want in my herd.


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## Hens and Roos

Glad to see your thread again!  You will be have a herd explosion for sure , Gardenia looks like our Maggie did before she kidded 6!! Just saying


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## Sweetened




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## samssimonsays

Following! I love gardenias story! I'm gonna guess 5 for her in there. I'm going to say she'll throw 3 does, 2 bucks to boot! 

Lavender I'm guessing 4. 3 bucks 1 doe
And daisy I'm gonna go with quads too. All does.
For poplar, I'm gonna say one buck one doe. 

Hehe I love these threads!


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## Sweetened

I guess for those who havent seen Gardenia's story on my other threads, I should post it here.

Gardenia was given to me for free when I bought other herd members, as she was just a super friendly doe who hadnt kidded in 4 years. She was a quadder, an excellent mother and milker who, on her 4th freshening, aborted very late term kids. What appeared to have happened was the rear kid had died days, perhaps a week prior, killing the other kids in sequence until she finally aborted. All but one had to be pulled.

She came back into heat intermitently, bred each time , but never settled. For almost 3 years, she was treated for infections, fibroids etc. To no avail, even left in with the bucks for a whole year and no results. Then, finally, a year after they stopped trying,  a spry, highly fertile buckling got in there and did his business! 

I can only hope the kids are healthy and well formed and carried to term! Oh and that its not all fat lol!!


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## Sweetened

Samantha drawz said:


> Lavender I'm guessing 4. 3 bucks 1 doe
> And daisy I'm gonna go with quads too. All does.
> For poplar, I'm gonna say one buck one doe.
> 
> Hehe I love these threads!



This is exactly what poplar and lavender gave last year. I am thinking only twins for daisy. Shes such a small goat and shes about the same size, belly wise, as poplar. Who is bigger... so i guess maybe!


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## Goatgirl47

I'm following too. 

Wow, Gardenia's huge!   I think she will be the first to kid.


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## Latestarter

Whatever the births and whatever their sex, I hope ALL are care free deliveries and healthy kids!  So glad to have you back sharing Sweetened! Waiting on updates and pics


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## bloonskiller911

the suspense would kill me, do you have any sort of time frame for them?!?!!?!?


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## Sweetened

bloonskiller911 said:


> the suspense would kill me, do you have any sort of time frame for them?!?!!?!?



Anytime from january 10th to end of February.


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## Ferguson K

You sound like us this year. I gave up and turned the boys out around the end of August / early September. Some of the does didn't take the first time, and may have rebred in October.


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## goats&moregoats

This is going to be one busy thread come birthing time. I am not even going to guess. LOL, Last year I thought my biggest was going to give me a litter, she had triplets and delivered last. My smallest gave me twins & delivered first. The third who I thought would give me trips gave me quads. LOL, my DD called me. Her first time being at a delivery alone...lol..."they just keep coming  Mom!" 

Hoping for healthy kids & does for you.


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## Sweetened

Reminds me of Gladys last year. I wasnt even sure she was pregnant until she started bagging up. Then I thought 1 only. No way in hell she was big enough for more.had to help her, pulled a buckling, spent a good few minutes trying to get him breathing. Thoight I saw a breath, gave him to Hubby and said: better just dub- whaaaat the hell!  she had another one coming so i grabbed a towel, she was out, shift her over a bit to get her off the wet and BAM there was a third!


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## goatgurl

_good to see you back Sweetened.  I'm like goats&moregoats I'm not even going to guess.  they all look like they are going to explode.  its just a matter of when.  you are going to have your hands full when they do._


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## Goat Whisperer

Following here too! Like the others said, I'm not gonna guess how many. We have had does that didn't even look preggers pop out triplets OR a doe that looks like she has 10 in there pop out 1 kid  I think goats live to make me crazy....But I like it that way  I have some does due next month, I can really feel those kids kicking! 

I love kidding season but I'm a nervous wreck too. 

So excited for you. Although with the temps you have, I would be bringing them in the house.  No way I could tolerate sitting out in the cold. 

Are you going to bottle feed this year? I bottle and/or trough fed around 20 kids last year and loved it. I will be doing it again this year, but I am going to make a rack to hold the bottles so I can feed about 10 at a time. I looked at the bucket feeders, but I would really like to know how much milk each kid is getting. Can't do that with a bucket or trough  Its really nice that, starting on the day they kid the does get milked 2x a day until you dry them off.

I see all the does were disbudded or naturally polled. Are you going to disbud this year?   

Wishing you a smooth and uneventful kidding season! I can't wait to see the kids!   Nigi kids are so adorable. I bet its going to be strange for you to have 2-5 pound kids born. After dealing with the big goats, and then seeing a tiny little ND kid takes some getting used to.


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## Sweetened

I will avoid bottle feeding at nearly all costs. I have a waiting list for bottle babies. I have just never had luck with bottlefed ones, they seem weaker than everything else. With my 5 month old, i also dont want to be milking twice a day for the same reason. Oh yeah, and it can get bugger all cold this time of year, though el nino/global warming has given us mild weather so far.

All these does have been disbudded, poorly i might add. They may or may not have actually been polled, the lady I bought them from disbudded eeeeverything at two days, wasnt interested in guessing who was polled. Gardenia and daisy are the only ones without scurrs, everyone else except simon, who i got from another breeder and is horned, has scurs. I will NOT disbud. Just way too mamy bad experieces for me here. I have it in my sellers agreement on my website that disbudding is done at buyers expense and is no refu dable if they back out. Its just not for me. My dexter heifer and young bull are also horned. My old cow was dehorned and it didnt go well, now she has a horn thatll grow into her head, so meh.


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## Ferguson K

All of mine have horns. Some of them know how to use them, I have one doe that will hook a bucket out of my hand with her horns. However, I have heard enough horror stories that I'm afraid to dehorn my herd. I know I should for safety reasons, but, I'm a softy...


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## Sweetened

Im of the mindset: if I dont want horns, Ill breed polled. One of my polled does killed a kid I introduced when I first got into goats. Rammed him to death while I was in the house and was tossing around his floppy body around. If a goat wants to do damage, it doesnt need horns. When we lost goats to dogs, I wished they would have used their horns but they didn't.

Its the same with our cows. If they want to kill or hurt you, they will do so with or without horns. We will get our bulls horns tipped if they end up too pointy, but wont have them removed.

Absolutely to each their own. I dont judge why other people do it.


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## samssimonsays

Sweetened said:


> This is exactly what poplar and lavender gave last year. I am thinking only twins for daisy. Shes such a small goat and shes about the same size, belly wise, as poplar. Who is bigger... so i guess maybe!


A good sign maybe that I guessed it then? LOL!


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## Sweetened

Lavender is putting on a bag, she was lopsided when i got her but would.never let me milk her out, shes all even now.


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## Sweetened

Approximately 2 weeks out from earliest date, here are updated pictures.

Lavender



 

Daisy -- im pretty sure this gal lost her plug, she may surprise me and kid first, her lady bits are looking all loose and saggy, and sticky. Forgot sticky. Ligs are easoly found, much to her agitation. I love this little thing, shes SO short!


 

Poplar -- has started sitting like a dog. Looks surprisingly uncomfortable even though shes not huge.


 

Gardenia - shes laying down in their bedding box, but seriously, how uncomfortable! While i have moved a tire for her to get a leg up, she refuses to use it. Hops in, gets her belly caught, and waggles those back legs until she hikes her rear end over. May have to start seperating her, that makes me want to panic. Shes super uncomfortable though. The past couple days, her rumen side has been significantly different in shape. Some moments she looks massive, other times not AS. I ca  only suspect the kids are moving, but ive never seen or felt it, try as I might, and shes pretty patient.


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## Latestarter

They all look huge! Uncomfortable is probably an understatement. I bet they'll be glad to unload! Gettin' close!   all goes well and you have a bunch of doelings!


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## sadieml

I came back on the site just to post my kidding guesses (and they truly are guesses, since I have no 1st hand knowledge, yet) based solely on the pics and kidding history you gave us, and then I see this latest pic of Daisy and think I'm nuts.  Anyway, I'm gonna post what I wrote down as is and let the cards fall where they may. 

#1 - Gardenia  quints    2 doelings/3 bucklings
#2 - Poplar       trips      1 doeling / 2 bucklings
#3 - Lavender  quads     3 doelings/1 buckling
#4 - Daisy         quads     2 doelings/2 bucklings

I was wrong about Stella's pups, and I'm probably wrong here, too, but no worries.  It's all just for fun anyway!  Just noticed I guessed 8 doelings/ 8 bucklings.  For your sake, I hope for more doelings.  I guess now it's just a waiting game.  I don't know how you stand the wait!   But it won't really be that long, now. Sooo exciting!!!


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## Sweetened

Its official, theres at least one baby in Gardenia. Managed to stir up enough trouble on the outside to deserve a swift 1 - 2 punch from the inside.


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## goatgurl

don't you love to play with baby bellies.  mama's get so tired of me bouncing them to feel baby kicks.  they look so miserable.  hope they pop soon.


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## Sweetened

I chose to seperate lavender this morning. She has slimmed down significantly, mushy/hard to find ligs, flappy genitals, with her vulva pointing almost directly outward, and she let me touch her... without grain involved. Ultimately, what made me move her was that i saw and heard her make a couple pushing grunts, like contractions. Sporadic, about 3 in 15 minutes, and when shes up, shes squatting to pee and dropping a couple berries every few minutes. I dont know these goats, but, while I debated and debated, my gut said no, set her up. So she is. Shes not happy about it, but she is.


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## bloonskiller911

I hope you are right and there are healthy kids easily birthed for you and then pictures to follow!!!!

of course I had one that I set up for 4 days and finally decided I had panicked and let her back out and found a kid an 1hr later!!


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## goatgurl

well, babies yet?  sounds like lavender kids have dropped making her quite uncomfortable.  i would have separated her too.  remember that pictures are important to us all


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## HoneyDreameMomma

Eager to here how it goes.  I am definitely following, and hoping things go well for you.   

Lol - I see all the kidding threads and realize how far behind I am this year.  We're just barely getting our breeding bucks this weekend.  Life has been crazy and we're breeding almost two month later than usual.  Might not be a bad thing for our doelings though...


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## Sweetened

Nothing. But this... this is cute.  Poor poplar.


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## Latestarter

Holy COW... she looks so big it appears her feet wouldn't even reach the floor to walk! No wonder she's laying down! Maybe she's hoping that pressure will force that load out!


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## Sweetened

LOL


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## Ferguson K

That's an SOS. She had better not trip, the oompa loompas will roll her away.


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## sadieml

It would be even funnier if her name was Violet.  You know, "Violet!  you're turning violet, Violet!  I've got a blueberry for a daughter."   Only in this case the daughter is a goatie!

I'm not sure if she looks more hilarious or more miserable!  Bless her sweet little goatie heart.  for the giant bloated angel!


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## Sweetened

Nicer non-cellphone picture update.

Daisy - still thinking she will be last to go... no udder development yet.








Gardenia - her udder is starting to have mass at the top/back.




Poor Poplar... cant figure out if thats dried discharge or what...












Lastly, Lavender. Certain she will go first, and hopefully not too long from now. Weather is good, surprisingly warn, and night time temps arent awful. Would be the warmest we have ever kidded in. She looks more full from the side than the back, which is odd to me. Last picture is cruddy but is what her udder looked like 12/5. I think theres quite a difference... you?


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## Ferguson K

Poor Poplar! She looks like she's going to split at the seams. 

Beautiful does!!


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## Sweetened

Gardenia is huge and doesnt even look full to bursting. I feel awful for poplar.

Thankyou. I think theyre lovely. Lokely not super awesome breed standard but need to start somewhere.


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## Southern by choice

Sweetened - I read your very first post and went to reply.... and then got distracted, and then I share the computer with 9 other people... anyway... I just have to say
 and


After all the hearbreak you have had I am SOO SOOOOOOOOO happy you have Nigie's! I think you will have a good run of it this time! 

From the looks of it you are probably going to have to pull and bottle feed some. Dam raising trips is usually no problem for a Nigerian but once you get 4,5,6 it doesn't work out to well. The smallest ones should get pulled.

They are all so pretty... 


Sweetened said:


> Lokely not super awesome breed standard but need to start somewhere.


LOL- great to breed to the standard but there are so many that are great milkers, hearty goats that are't to the standard or aren't even registered. 
A lady we sold one of our unregistered goats to is going to be a 2nd F- has the most beautiful udder and teats... nice long teats with excellent placement, beautiful escutcheon,medial, etc...  she has a nicer udder than many registered goats. We originally kept her for 18 months knowing she would be a really good dairy goat but alas... we have to make cuts somewhere.... For her she was shorter in the body than what would be ideal - yet a great goat.

I am very much looking forward to your kidding this year!
Congrats on such a nice herd. They may be a small package but they sure can hold their own. Glad you will be keeping replacements... with them being older their production will be lower of course but it will give you a good idea of what your new does will be able to do ...


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## Sweetened

Awh, Southern, glad to see you here.

I agree on the standard thing for sure!

Am I already going crazy, or does she SERIOUSLY look slimmer.


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## Southern by choice

Um is this a trick question


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## Sweetened

Southern by choice said:


> Um is this a trick question



No!


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## luvmypets

Ooooh   , don't mind me I will just be here waiting for baby pics


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## goats&moregoats

Oh cool, I am not the only one waiting on babies! LOL, Yup said the same to myself about Poppit three days ago, still waiting.


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## Southern by choice

Doe Code.... always so helpful...


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## Sweetened

And here I thought the more mature girls would just prefer to get down to business.


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## sadieml

Do does "drop" like we do?  I thought they did, which could explain suddenly looking slimmer.  That's got to be in the last couple of weeks, right?  I know for women it can be a month or more, but I wouldn't think more than 2 wks or so for goats.  I'm hoping to learn a lot from your (and others) kidding threads so it won't all be new to me when we finally get girls and start kidding around here.  I am sooo impatient.


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## Sweetened

They do. They get a skinnier look as the kids 'get in line'. Problem is, sometimes they practice this for weeks and drive their human crazy.

Then again, an Ober I had looked huge still as she was wandering around, hollaring, with a kid swinging behind her, super primal. Every goat is so different. Flora had just started bagging up and dropped a kid, finished bagging after, etc. This is why I hand breed. Then i can have a date to worry.


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## Sweetened

In the mean time, heres a cute kid.


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## goats&moregoats

Awe, that she is. Just darling.

I have kidding dates as well. However, Mr. gus must have gotten Poppit before we believed he was able. Also before we saw any signs of interest from him. We thought she was due in Feb. Now she is showing all the tell tale signs of delivery any day. That means he got her just before we got him seperated from all the girls.

These were taken 4 days ago.


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## Sweetened

I wouldnt say shes too close? Newbies can start bagging up like... 6 weeks or more ahead. I thought for sure gardenia would go on decembet, as in november she had some milk in her, still waiting!of course i could be wrong


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## Latestarter

Your daughter is precious! What a doll... I guess I'm a grampa as I want to pick her up and give her a cuddle... then hand her back


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## Sweetened

Lol! I feel the same sometimes. Shes been really good to us though. And look whos talking! I was 10 days overdue lol


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## Sweetened

Looks like lavender has sticky lady parts, looks even slimmer. So... plug, maybe?


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## sadieml

@Sweetened - She was a lovely newborn and she seems to be getting lovelier over time.  She is absolutely beautiful.  I know looks aren't truly important, but she is a joy to behold!

As for Lavender, I'll just wait and see.  Personally, I'd like to see Poplar go first, since she looks as though she may burst!  Bless her heart!   btw - I don't think she will, just wishing for her sake.


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## Sweetened

January 1st and 3rd comparisons. Thoughts?


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## Latestarter

I think they are beautiful  and I'm looking forward to seeing pics of their babies!


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## goats&moregoats

LOL, always fun as kidding approaches..Doe Code in operation. I also will continue to watch your thread for those babies to appear.


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## Sweetened

One day in the next 6 weeks!


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## Sweetened

Lavs ligs are gone this morning. Milk is only coming in on one side, so im thinking she only milks on one half -- have asked the people I bought her from as it was never mentioned.


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## samssimonsays

Hopefully soon! Fingers crossed! And your little girl is beautiful!


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## Sweetened

Ligs are still gone and tailhead is up. Sure i saw a couple contractions. She is separated again and the heat lamp is in!


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## sadieml

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!  Baby goaties is coming!!!


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## Sweetened

Lovely little doeling on the ground. More to come.


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## sadieml

*sings scale of "YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES" *


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## Sweetened

Maybe not more... she seems to be passing afterbirth.


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## Poka_Doodle

Yay for the doeling. But bad if she doesn't make it


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## Goat Whisperer

A huge congrats!!!!!   

Can't wait to see her!


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats on the new kid!!!


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## Sweetened

Seems like only a single. Cant feel anything when I bump and her afterbirth is right there when I check and Im afraid of dislodging it, but I swear i see a kick in there.


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## Sweetened

Looks to be a light buckskin.


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## animalmom

Oh what a sweetie.  First baby pictures of 2016!  Maybe @Sweetened has started a doe trend for all of us this year.  Well, one can hope can't one?

Good looking kid you have there, and congrats.  How's the little momma Lavender doing?  How are you doing?


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## Sweetened

Im fine. Lavender is still talking to her belly, weak pushes, but when i stick my hand in there it feels like afterbirth so im afraid to poke around as i dont want to damage anything.


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## Sweetened

Afterbirth passed. Single it is! Shes getting older anyway, and the one side doesnt have much for milk. Owner said she had mastitis last year and it dried up, she thought it would just come back this freshening.

Brought the doeling in to finish drying and shes back out now. Can see her colours.


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## Goat Whisperer

She's a doll! 

I thought the same thing @animalmom ......Hoping this IS the new trend....*DOES!* LOL


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## Latestarter

Congrats Sweetened! She's a beauty! Sorry there was only the one... but it was a doeling, so that's good 

Edit to say it was nice of her to have the kid during the mid day and not at 3am in a blizzard!


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## frustratedearthmother

A great big congrats for a cute little kid!  Hope this is the beginning of many good things for you and your goats!


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## norseofcourse

Awwwwww, congrats!!!


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## Ferguson K

Pleeeeease let this be the year of the does!
Gorgeous little kid!


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## Goatgirl47

Aww @Sweetened she is so pretty! I love that color! Are you going to retain her?


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## goatgurl

congratulations on the first baby of the year in your barn.  she is a doll.  and if you're going to have a singleton at least its a doe.  and since I'm a few days behind i have to say what a doll your daughter is.  she is growing so fast!  and her buddy in the picture is pretty too.


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## OneFineAcre

Congrats
White and Gold is a fairly common Nigerian color pattern


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## BlessedWithGoats

Congratulations!! What a cutie! 
I agree with the others, your daughter is lovely too!!


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## babsbag

Yippee for the doeling. What a cutie she is and so happy for you and Lav. One down and a few more to go.


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## sadieml

Yay to doelings!

@Sweetened - Lavender is a sneaky one for sure.  Singleton?  Really?  At least it's a doeling, and a beauty, too.  Of course, your little girl steals the show.  She's so beautiful.


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## Sweetened

Goatgirl47 said:


> Are you going to retain her?



Yes I will retain her. Im concerned shes not feeding, havent seen her try though I know shes been up and about. Saw her nuzzle lavs chest once but, nothing more. I pulled some milk from Lav, who was NOT happy about it, and bottled her a bit just to make sure. She knew what to do with the bottle. If i have to bottle her i will, but I plan to keep her out with her mom in hopes she will do the rest or catch on.

Lav is on the cut block, I think, but we will see. Shes older, is only milking out of one half now, and might be down on kid numbers. I have last yeaes kid and this one from her.

Up next: Gardenia. Shes got a goopy string and hubby is out making another pen up for her.


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## samssimonsays

COngrats on the doeling!!! She is sooo beautiful!!! Hopefully all will go smoothly with the rest now


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## Baymule

Beautiful little doe!  I enjoy reading your posts because you are so informative about your goats. Even though I am a sheepie, I still glean lots of info from your posts.


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## Sweetened

Awh. Thanks baymule!


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## luvmypets

Oh my gosh! What an angel  

Congrats on the beautiful doeling! Lets see what the others bring


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## Sweetened

How far do goats dilate? Because of her history, I checked on gardenia, we are only about a cm dilates


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## Sweetened

Im concerned with her lack of progress. She is up, down, pawing, calling (trying to get lavs baby through the divider), shaking like a leaf, and contracting every 5-10 minutes. I cant help her thpugh if I cant get in there. I also havent seen or felt kid movement for over an hour


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## Goatgirl47

I hope she's alright! Have you tried 'bumping' her?


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## Sweetened

Yup, no reaction.


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## Goatgirl47

Sweetened said:


> Yup, no reaction.



I mean this way:

Quote: "The best indicator that all the kids are delivered is to bump the doe. Standing with your side to the doe facing the front, reach your arms around her rear barrel right in front of the udder. Lift up sharply and allow the barrel to fall into your hands. If she is done the muscles will be quite relaxed and you should feel no mass inside except maybe a ball of placental material. If you feel a hard lump, you most likely have another kid inside. Proceed with this bumping by moving your hands forward on the belly, bumping her every four or five inches until you reach the end of the rear rib. You may find a kid by bumping up near the rib cage that you have not felt my manual exploration inside the uterus."


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## Sweetened

That is how i bump. Shes not even dilated.


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## Goatgirl47

Oh, sorry then...


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## Sweetened

Dont be sorrt at all. That quote is the one i learned to bump from


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## Latestarter

Is there a vet nearby that you could get some pitocin from? I know that doesn't really necessarily make the cervix open more/faster, but may help Gardenia push harder to open up... Anything else I could find said (human) nipple massage, sex, etc. not really options here...


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## Southern by choice

Have you tried any Evening Primrose Oil on the cervix?
This may help her to dilate ... in the meantime I would be calling the vet.


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## Goat Whisperer

I agree- at this point I would be calling a vet. A vet will have the appropriate drugs needed. 

Can you post a video of her? How hard is she pushing?


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## frustratedearthmother

Please - NO oxytocin/pitocin if she's not dilated.... really bad idea!   Oxytocin will cause contractions whether she is dilated or not which could lead to a bad tear of the cervix, or worse, a uterine rupture.   Lutalyse would be a better idea...it stimulates labor in a more natural way.

I agree with others that it might be time to call the vet.   However, in the meantime the primrose oil or even a simple cervix massage might help.

Good luck!


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## Latestarter

Thanks FEM! I was pulling at straws and couldn't find the info you posted. In hind sight I shouldn't have offered advice without first hand knowledge...


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## frustratedearthmother

No problem, LS.  Being a long-time pygmy breeder I had to learn the tricks of the birthing trade.


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## Southern by choice

Good catch @frustratedearthmother - completely missed the mention of it.

I figured Sweetened may have the EPO on hand as she does a good deal of naturals. My midwife used this and something else on her patients... can't remember what the other was.

@Latestarter - Have to say, even though you don't have your livestock yet you are one diligent person... you really do research a lot. Once you have goats you will be a quick learn ... you'll find out faster what works, what doesn't, what things are not good advice etc. I have seen some dooosies out there as far as goats, dogs, chickens etc. 
I also think it is very cool how you want to be helpful and you care. 
 my friend!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Ditto what SBC said!


----------



## samssimonsays

Hoping all goes well I am on the "time to call a vet" wagon.


----------



## Sweetened

Vets 5 hours out. We are doing all we can to save her. Have little hope fir the kids. Have her at 2 fingers dilation now


----------



## Sweetened

I just got some epo and im hoping it helps


----------



## Southern by choice

you will be in our thoughts.


----------



## Poka_Doodle

We are hoping that all goes well


----------



## bloonskiller911

GOOD LUCK AND POSITIVE THOUGHTS


----------



## norseofcourse

Positive thoughts for you all from here as well


----------



## sadieml

Fervently praying for Gardenia and you.  Hoping the vet can shave that time a bit.  I know how Gardenia must feel.  I got pit with all of mine since my body would stop dilating at 3cm.  Everyone sort of stalls, but I would just plain quit.  Pit is one of those things you would only wish on your worst enemy, but if you NEED it, you need it.  With Kimmy, my 3rd, I only got pit for 30 mins or so, and the doc said let's wait til the AM (it was 6 or 6:30 PM ,I was 3cm).  Wagers on the OB ward had me going at 11AM absolute earliest.  At 8:30PM I told the nurse to check me because for 45 mins I had been having THE worst contractions ever about every minute.  She waited until 9:30, then said OMG I have to call the doctor NOW.  Kimmy arrived at 10:39PM.  I went from 3cm and stuck at 7:30PM to ready in 2 1/2 hours.  Maybe Gardenia's cervix just needs a reminder and the epo will help.  I truly believe her miracle pregnancy happened for a reason, not just to bring stillborn babies.   Keep us posted.


----------



## babsbag

This is copied from a well known goat site. The "I" is not me.  Stinks that your vet is so far away. 


_I've decided that I will give a 1/4 cc to 1/2 cc oxytocin injection IM (into the muscle) if I am positive that a doe is in Stage Two labor where she is pushing and she starts passing fluid out of the vagina but the cervix doesn't dilate. *Producers must realize that stringy mucous coming out of the vagina as early as two weeks before kidding is not active labor. If you don't know the distinction, don't use oxytocin or you will kill the doe. * I am told by several people that they've used this treatment and it resulted in cervical dilation in about 30 minutes. If the situation is serious enough that 30 minutes' wait isn't possible (kid close to vaginal opening or obvious distress in the dam), then I'm going to glove up, enter the doe's vagina, and gently attempt to loosen the cervical rings through slow rotation of my clenched fist with emphasis on using my knuckles on the non-dilated cervical rings. *Oxytocin hormone is a vet prescription. This use of oxytocin with goats is both off-label and potentially dangerous, so never use it without supervision of your veterinarian. Remember that I am not a vet and am only recounting what I choose to do with my own herd and with my vet's supervision.*_


----------



## frustratedearthmother

If she's at two fingers you can feel pretty safe to do some light cervical stretching.  Insert two fingers and slowly, slowly and gently spread your fingers and sort of slowly work your way around in a circle.  Using the EPO will help at the same time.  Remember, a cervix is meant to open, so gentle pressure won't hurt anything.... I emphasize 'gentle'!  The cervical massage will likely stimulate her to push also.  

She may get too tired to actually push those babies out even if/when she does fully dilate.  You might have to go in after them.  Just take your time and feel around gently for those feet.   Don't give up if you just get a head - it is possible to deliver with one foot up or even no feet if you can ease one shoulder through before the other.  Doing that reduces the bulk of two shoulders trying to deliver at the same time.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

HA! Just saw that Babsbag posted right above me.  Cervical massage can work wonders!  I'd still be afraid to use oxy just yet...but that's just me.  I've delivered literally hundreds of kids and with pygmies you gotta learn or you lose lots of does and babies. 

Praying for a positive outcome!


----------



## Mini Horses

Praying all goes well for Gardenia.   Reading her history, she may have some scar tissue &/or lack of hormone response due to prior damage.   So, the gentle massage may be the best option to stimulate her at this time.   If she were mine, even with a good result, this would be here last pregnancy. 

Can see you have experience and are feeling the stress of such situations.   My goats have always done well for me but, I've been into more mini mares than I can count....mostly just straightening the foals but, have had every bad delivery they ever pictured.  Most ended well, a few didn't and that is just so, so hard.  I lost only 1 mare in foaling over the years and it is still painful. 

Am awaiting the outcome and hope it's a good one!!


----------



## HomesteaderWife

Prayers for your sweet Gardenia, and keep us updated.


----------



## sadieml

I definitely concur on cervical massage.  For a woman they would say soak in a warm bath, drink apple juice out of a wine glass, have sex, all sorts of things as @Latestarter pointed out earlier.  Cervical massage is the best option here.  Pit or oxytocin are both a tough call without the vet there, plus you may not even have any.  Given Gardenia's history, I think it is no surprise that she is not responding properly to labor.  With so much prayerful intervention on her (and your) behalf, I am hopeful for a good outcome.  Please let us know how things are going when you get a chance.  We are all waiting anxiously.  God bless you, @Sweetened, and your tender concern for sweet Gardenia.


----------



## Ferguson K




----------



## Baymule

Hope all goes well for Gardenia and you.


----------



## Poka_Doodle

Hoping all is going well


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Aww!  How is she doing? Prayers for you both Sweetened!!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Hope all is well @Sweetened 

I have been thinking about her nonstop. Really hoping for the best


----------



## goatgurl

hoping that no news means that you are busy with gardenia and her new babies.  prayers that all is well.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I was thinking the same thing @goatgurl


----------



## Poka_Doodle

X3


----------



## Sweetened

I havent had a chance to go through all messages.

Unfortunately, we lost both Gardenia and her buckling. During the c-section, she hemmoraged and the vet was unable to save her. Her uterus was pretty scarred looking, likely from whatever happened years ago.

I will read posts tomorrow. Thanks everyone.


----------



## norseofcourse

I am so sorry


----------



## babsbag




----------



## goatgurl

so sorry Sweetened.  just know that you did all you could for her and her kid.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Oh I am so sorry sweetened. So tragic 

I cannot even imagine. Gosh this sucks. Hate it when you cannot do anything to save them. 



Thanks for letting us know, I'm sure you are just drained right now.


----------



## luvmypets

I'm so sorry


----------



## Poka_Doodle

So sorry. I remember hearing how much you loved her and know this is going to be hard for you.


----------



## HomesteaderWife

Sending our sympathies to you- we are so sorry for your loss. You have so many supportive, kind people here who have been following this. Praying for you all and again, so sorry to hear of this.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I am so sorry...


----------



## Hens and Roos

so sorry to hear


----------



## Shorty

I'm so sorry for your loss @Sweetened


----------



## Latestarter

Man... what else can be said?  You did NOT need this! My deepest sympathies Sweetened. Truly wishing you nothing but the best for the rest of your does. Don't beat yourself up over this as it was not your fault and you went over and above to try and help her.


----------



## sadieml

@Sweetened - God bless you, dear one.  I have no words...

edit to add:  DH sends his deepest sympathy.  So sorry for your loss.


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

So sorry about Gardenia and her buckling - it brought tears to my eyes.  You have been through a lot with your herd and you do such a remarkable job.  It is clear how much you care about them - you are an awesome goat mama!  Btw, didn't get a chance to say so before, but Lav's doeling is absolutely beautiful!


----------



## Sweetened

Thanks all for the advice and knowledge offered here. I hope this thread is stumbled upon in the future by people looking for answers.

I am broken, and I should have followed my gut and stayed out of goats. Sometime last night, Lavs doeling went down. For anything else that goes wrong here now, there are zero funds for a vet. We will likely lose this kod if we cant get her to suckle. I have nothing here small enough to tube her with and no paste or bose injections.

In addition, I have a screaming baby who wont sleep.  It was a mistake staying in goats.


----------



## goatgurl

oh Sweetened, i know you are drained by the events of yesterday.  i am so sorry.  i know you are exhausted and you know that your daughter is upset because she feels your tension.   it will get better i promise.   I'm hoping for the best  with the baby doe.  before you give up take some time to get past this.  can you get milk into her with just a syringe?  very slowly and stroking her throat to stimulate her swallow reflex.  i am praying for you.


----------



## Sweetened

Can anyone tell me injectable dose of selenium on 2lbs, 13.5oz?

Itll likely be cattle injectable that i get hold of. Is it intramuscular or iv? Where is best?


----------



## samssimonsays

I am so sorry Sweetend. My heart absolutely breaks for you.


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

goatgurl said:


> I'm hoping for the best  with the baby doe.  before you give up take some time to get past this.  can you get milk into her with just a syringe?  very slowly and stroking her throat to stimulate her swallow reflex.  i am praying for you.



X2!

The syringe can sometimes work in place of tubing - I had to do it a couple of years ago with a doeling born too early.  Like Goatgurl mentioned, try to get past this before deciding to give up on goats.  It is your decision, and a very personal one at that.  Goodness knows you've had a crazy, painful time with things the last two years, but know that part of what is making this so difficult for you is what makes you such a good goat mama - you care.  That said, you also know what's best for you and your family, and all of us here support you in whatever you decide to do.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

I'm so sorry Sweetened!!  Don't beat yourself up, this is NOT your fault! Praying for you!


----------



## Goatgirl47

I'm so sorry @Sweetened!  You did your best to help her. 

Hoping that her doeling will pull through and stay healthy.


----------



## goatgurl

just got back from taking trash down.  Wednesday=trash day.  one small walmart bag, not worth the trip but needs done so away i go.
i use mu-se for my goats simply because my vet was out of bo-se at the time.  you give 1/2cc per 100# so if my math is right you would give 0.015 cc for 3#.  tiny, tiny amount.  and i give it im or sq.  good luck with the doeling.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Hope all is well with the doeling.....

I though I posted this before but I must have gotten interrupted. 

When you said that she knew what to do with the bottle I was a little concerned. I have pulled and bottle raised several different breeds of goats, the ND's are* always *the hardest to get on the bottle here. Have another friend that raises Mini manchas and ND's. Again- whenever she needed to give a bottle they were always the hardest. They never would just take the bottle the first time- we always had to gently force it on them several times before they realized it was food. Once they have latched onto momma's teat, it is very hard for me to get them to accept a bottle. 

If she just took the bottle I don't think she is getting enough, if any, milk/colostrum from momma doe. 

She may need some BOSE, but if she went from a nice, robust, healthy kid to down in that fast of a time frame I would suspect a feeding issue, got chilled, or injury. Have you given her anything to give her a boost? Molasses? Strong Coffee? Drench? Corn syrup? We usually keep a paste called Jumpstart plus here when kidding time comes. It worked fantastic for my set of quads last year- rough birth and one of the kids wasn't looking good. I don't know what you have up there but something similar is a good thing to have on hand. 

Was the doeling's mouth cold? Did you take her temp? 
Some of these kids can go without milk longer than you think as long as they are warm (like by a heater in the house warm) and you are able to syringe feed her something to give a small amount of energy. If you can get a small amount of something to give her a boost they will usually regain their want to suckle.   

Its been a while since you have updated. I hope the doeling is still with you and you & baby have gotten some rest


----------



## Sweetened

Thanks, @goatgurl. By the time I saw this I had already dosed at the ag stores recommendation of 1/4cc. So far so good. Back legs seem to be working right again, standing, walking, eating, drinking, pooping, peeing.  @Goat Whisperer, she was warm, mouth was warm, she was under the heat lamp on her own, i think a combo of not being fed and a selenium defficiency. I remember noting it last year on Gretels kids. I have it on hand now, its bose, but called Selen-e here and avaipable at the feed store.  Lavender doesnt care that shes gone, hasnt looked or bawled for her. She will be freezer fodder once I dont need her milk. Only producing on one half and the other side is just bright red milk.  Too bad, what she has left is a gorgeous udder.




 





Daisy is up next. Went from no bag to (w)ho(le) bag since this morning. No ligs since then as well. She will drop kids on me at some ungodly hour of the night Im sure.

Poplar is still solid as a rock on those ligs.


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## Southern by choice

Sweetened do what you need to do with family and goats... we are here, we care, and we are with you in thoughts and prayers.

@Goat Whisperer  - great post


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Glad she is doing better! You had me worried!

She reminds me of my little quad doeling from last year, "Bunny".


----------



## Sweetened

I remember bunny! How is she?

Im wondering if everything this vuck puts on the ground is going to look like him. The buckling we lost looked the same as Mable.

Oh yes, I named her Mable.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Great news!  So glad she's doing better.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## bloonskiller911

Sorry for the loss of gardenia and her buckling, but so excited the Mable is up


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## Baymule

I hate losing an animal, it hurts. Please don't blame yourself for this, you are a kind and loving goatie mamma. Sometimes no matter what you do, it just all goes wrong. Why do we keep doing this when the pain of loss hurts so bad? Because the joy of when it all goes right dries the tears of grief and puts gladness back in our hearts.

Your daughter will learn so much from you. She will learn how to overcome adversity and she will learn how to treasure every moment of life. Your daughter is blessed to have you for her mother.


----------



## sadieml

x2

@Sweetened - You are a treasure.  Your goaties, and far more importantly, your family are so blessed to have you.  What a darling.  No doubt Gardenia went happy since she was so very loved, and she had her little one with her.  I am of the opinion (and I will not be swayed) that since the Bible clearly mentions animals in Heaven, and since the Old Testament word for an animal as a living "thing" and a human as a living "soul" are the same word in Hebrew, that animals go to Heaven.  Gardenia is there now singing your praises.  You are a wonderful Mom, goatie and otherwise.  Please know that we all continue to support you in prayer, and we will be here for you come what may.  God bless you, Sweetened.

edited for stupid spelling boo-boo


----------



## Sweetened

Thanks guys.

Mable has a snotty nose this morning, but dod have a drink.

No real progress on Daisy. Still no ligs, has a small bit of pure white discharge thats been on her vulva since about 9:30 last night, Udder is still growing and is lovely looking. Only now has she hollowed out, and shes been flagging a lot. Have yet to see a contraction or push or fluid or anything so, havent intervened. Shes eating, annoyed that shes in a pen and generally not out of sorts.


----------



## goats&moregoats

Sweetened, I am terribly sorry for your losses. Hope Mable continues to do well. I also hope the rest of your herd kids with no issues. My prayers are with you.


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## samssimonsays

Fingers crossed all goes smoothly with Daisy and Poplar. SO glad that Mabel (perfect name by the way) is doing better. A friend of mine told me to put watered down molasses in their mouth to give them the urge to drink if it comes to that. I have never done this but she has said it worked wonders.


----------



## Sweetened

Mable is floppy again this morning. Will drink but not much energy to stand. Daisy finally has some progress, her vulva looks like theres a golf ball hiding in there. She hasnt started pushing or anything yet, no fluid.


----------



## samssimonsays

Oh no   I am so sorry.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Prayers that all goes well with Daisy, and that Mable recovers! Remember to take care of yourself too, Sweetened!


----------



## Sweetened

Looking for advice 

Let me preface with: re: vet bills, vet is not an option at this point.

Daisy is not pushing, not goopy, has had no ligs for over 24 hours. When laying down, her vulva is poofy. She has not pushed, and while she has clearly had contractions to soften that cervix open, i havent seen one. She is eating, drinking, milling about. I have seen kid movement in the belly but there are NO kids presenting. Do I go digging around for one or leave things alone?


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

I had a doe that did almost the same thing last year - had heavy contractions, loose cervix, etc. (although she did have some goop) but no progress.  She actually stopped having contractions for nearly 10 hours, which made me worry sick and I almost went in, but I opted not to because she didn't seem overly distressed.  She eventually had a successful birth, but it came almost 18+ hours later than I thought it would, and was different than any of the other goat births I've been there for.

Every doe is different, but if Daisy is still eating, drinking and moving around, I'd give her a bit more time.  Go with your gut though - you know your goat best, and if it seems like something is off, scrub up and go in.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I'd leave it be for now.   I don't usually go in until I see active labor - and by that I mean  good hard pushes and goopy stuff dripping out.  At that point, if I suspect a problem I'll do what I call a 'finger sweep' just to check for dilation and/or presentation. 

A couple of years ago I had a doe go over 36 hours with NO ligaments and no serious signs of impending delivery except for an occasional grunt and a slight push.  I really thought this doe was in trouble even though she showed no serious signs of distress other than her obvious discomfort.  After a solid 30+ hours I gave it to God and went to bed.  I had the monitor on so when I got up the next morning and didn't hear baby sounds I loaded my gun....went out to do the deed and was presented with two beautiful babies that she had delivered all by herself on her own good time.  Whew!

But, as HDM posted - you know your goats and I don't think it would hurt to do a quick check.

Fingers crossed for a non-dramatic delivery!


----------



## Sweetened

Thanks guys, Ill leave her for now then. I did a finger sweep to see if we had ringwomb happening again. Evening primrose helped a little with Gardenia, but not enough to save her from a csection.  Shes wide open, ready to go.

I really dont know these girls that well, theyre still new to me. However, daisy is always quiet, calm, wise and hungry, and that hasnt changed. Still only that little bit of white discharge, likely a plug im guessing, and thats it, not super goopy inside either, not even a waterbag in finger range, so the kid (im guessing only one, despite being a triplet deliverer) isnt engaged. She does a lot of arching to reposition, but other than that, no pushes at all.


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

We're all praying for a successful delivery.  My guess is two - one buck and one doe.  With lots of fun Nigie colors!


----------



## Latestarter

Really wish they had an emogi for praying.... I hope this one goes smoothly, even if slow.


----------



## Hens and Roos

and prayers that all goes smoothly!


----------



## Ferguson K

Wow you've had a terrible week. I'm so sorry gun.  Just now getting caught up. Prayers to you and your lovely family.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Hope Daisy & Mable are doing okay. 

I agree with the others on Daisy. They can have "missing" ligs for a while before they kid.

Is Mable (love the name!) out in the barn or somewhere warm? I know you said you have a heat lamb, I'm wondering if it isn't warm enough. How cold is it over there? 
What are/have you been giving her?

Bunny is doing fantastic, thanks for asking 
She went to her new farm in September. I miss her dearly. She is very happy and is with her 1/2 sister. The family has been spoiling her just as I do  They are in love!

Hoping its smooth sailing from here on out!


----------



## Sweetened

About mable: she is in the house. Her back legs seem weak, she has developed awful smelling mustard and sometimes bloody diarrhea. Sometimes she can walk, other times not. She is drinking her mothers milk as im milking her, she had colostrum, is having it supplemented with raw cow as needed.

Daisy: twins, one mostly white, some cream buckling, one gold with white poll doeling.

Doeling came fine, buckling not so much. Feet, head bent back and twisted. I may have hurt daisy adjusting him as shes bleeding. Not profusely, but more than normal. May have dislodged the afterbirth a bit. Tell you what... no room to work in these girls.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

@Sweetened 

Take Mable's temp NOW. I will watching for your post.

After you tell me her temp, can you post a pic of her poo? I know, gross


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Congrats on the twins. Hope Daisy will okay! 

When Leah had her quads we needed a vet to pull them. Poor Leah was 45 lbs, and pretty small back there. The vet has HUGE HUGE hands....like at least 3 times the size of mine. Still not sure how he was able to stick his hand up there  Poor doe. As far as I know she doesn't have any issues. She bred & took the first time. She is due in about 10 daya (day 145) so we shall see.

So sorry you have been having a rough time with your goats


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## Sweetened

I tried taking her temp, my thrometer just screams instead of showing a temperature. Cant pick one up until tomorrow. My luck as usual.


----------



## Sweetened

Oh gosh, yeah i couldnt get in thrre with the feet out, had to push them back in ahead of my hand and in order to get him turned i really had to twist my arm, grab his upper jaw and pull and twist up. Both of these kids seem far FAR more vigorous than mable ever was. We are going to give them  their selenium shot tonight and will grab pictures of them then.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Hopefully its the cow milk causing the runs. 

Having yellow in the poo can normal for young kids, as you already know. (colostrum)  

At this point I'm concerned about salmonella or something similar. Of course its hard to go on right now. 
I haven't dealt with this. Maybe @frustratedearthmother has any ideas???

We lost one of our first kids. The little doeling had pooped in the sack before she was born and ingested it. She died the next day. We suctioned her pretty good, but we were already to late. I also think she was premature. I didn't realize it then (we were new) but after looking at the pics again her hooves and face looked premature and she had underdeveloped kidneys. Not saying this is it with Mable- our girl couldn't even stand longer then 45 seconds without falling down. 

Be very careful, if this is salmonella you and your daughter could get it too.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats on the 2 new arrivals.


----------



## Sweetened

Thanks guys. I was hospitalized in 2010 with salmonella. I would not like it again.


----------



## luvmypets

Praying for you and Mable


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

Sweetened said:


> Daisy: twins, one mostly white, some cream buckling, one gold with white poll doeling.
> 
> That's wonderful news!Woohoo - I guessed the number and genders right!
> 
> 
> 
> luvmypets said:
> 
> 
> 
> Praying for you and Mable
> 
> 
> 
> x2!
> 
> If you can, take a moment for yourself so you can recover from all this craziness.  If time for yourself just isn't an immediate option, hang in there a little longer, and know we're all pulling for you.
Click to expand...


----------



## Latestarter

So glad they both made it, even if the buckling was misrepresented... I hope he does OK. Sorry to hear about the ongoing issues with Mable... I hope she's strong enough to pull through.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Congratulations on the new babies!! Hope Mable is doing better!


----------



## Sweetened

Family


 

Doeling


 

Buckling


 

Went out and grabbed them for their selenium shot and they had full bellies.

Mables hanging in there. Walking around a little, but she mostly just shuffles her back feet. They often come up off the ground. Her back end seems sooo much taller than her front end, i think thats part of it.


----------



## Mini Horses

You have a 2nd doe with milk, after colostrum, you could use her to help supplement milk for Mable if needed.  I'd stop the cow milk ASAP.   Just MO....

Since it is kidding season, I remind everyone to salvage some colostrum and next few days of milk for any kids that have a mom who needs help.   We all get busy and forget.   I mark mine with doe name & dates....then I know colostrum, milk day 2, 3, 4, etc.  So I can keep a kid in need on the same concentration as it would get from own mom.   I used to do this with my mini mares, also.  You never know when you will need it, or anothers kid/foal.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Is the nasty smelling poo more of a 'sour milk' smell or a 'something died in there' smell?   If sour milk smell it could be the cow's milk or just too much milk.

The back legs issue is a new one for me.  We're not selenium deficient here so I have absolutely NO experience with that kind of problem.

Just saw what MH posted - and agree totally!  Use that other mama for a milk machine!  And, I have colostrum in the freezer from last year....with the doe's name, the date frozen and what day it was collected. 

I seem to remember that you take the natural approach but here's a good link with some ideas: 
http://goat-link.com/content/view/46/75/#.Vo8igMvSkeE

Congrats on the two new ones!  Mom will probably be fine...just watch her for a decrease in appetite or a lack of interest in her kids.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Stoopid double post...ugh!


----------



## Sweetened

Someone is spry enough tohave wandered into the kitchen and fallen in the dog bowl.


----------



## Sweetened

Ive been trying to milk her mother to no avail. I have no idea how she was part of a cheesery. She kicked me in the face, tries to break her neck when hobbled and sits/lays so you cant milk her anyway. I will start milking daisy tomorroe night. Ive always bottled on homo milk, figured raw would be better and I can afford it.her poop was smelling rancid like sour something, not rotting.


----------



## Sweetened

The new doeling is 3lbs 10.5oz, the boy is bigger, is this large for ND kids?


----------



## OneFineAcre

Sweetened said:


> The new doeling is 3lbs 10.5oz, the boy is bigger, is this large for ND kids?


That's a good weight for twins


----------



## Southern by choice

That is a good size not too big not too small!
Some goats can act real stupid... it is like NO get off me where is my baby. 
Goats that we pull kids from that never see the kid.. stand there and milk like a dream... they think WE are the baby, and they call to us at milking time and talk to us while getting milked... even lift their leg out so it is easier for us to get too. Kind of funny really.
One doe took 3 people to hold her to get milked...   eventually she got it. Another doe did the same as yours, would lay down and act like she was having a tantrum. One doe if the feed pellets aren't "perfect" will throw food and lay down. Eventually they all learn how to behave.

We have some strong willed goats... but_ this old goat_ is WAY more stubborn. 

The kids are adorable. Keep your chin up. Not posting much sweetie but I am following and thinking about you and how things are going throughout the day! So many of us know what you have gone through and you have many "friends" who are really hoping and praying for you!  Your herdies luv ya!


----------



## babsbag

@Sweetened I have been reading all of this and my heart breaks for you. I was hoping that this kidding season would go off without a hitch.

I raise bottle babies on cow's milk all of the time with no problem so I doubt that Mabel's problem is milk related. However they can get diarrhea from too much milk and at times it can look like it has blood in it. Taking her temp will help with the puzzle.

Does she still want her bottle?

My dose for Bo-Se is much different than what goatgurl posted. I use 1 cc / 40 lbs. so your 1/4 cc is high, but not too high and if she was deficient that dose was probably a good call.  A selenium deficiency can also cause poor sucking reflexes. Not sure why she would still be having problems as the BoSe works pretty fast. I am not sure I would give her anymore. But I live in a very deficient area and lost a kid last year from a selenium deficiency and that was after dosing the does a month before freshening and dosing the kids at 1 week old. I don't think the roll selenium plays is really given the importance it deserves. 

Hope Mable recovers and that the rest of the kiddings go well.  You certainly have been through a lot; you are due a break.


----------



## sadieml

I may be completely off-base here, but could little Mable have a thiamine deficiency?  Just something about her symptoms reminded me of the "goat polio" episode of Dr Pol.  Just wondering.  What do you guys think, @Sweetened,  @babsbag , @Goat Whisperer, @Southern by choice, anyone?


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

Such cuties! What beautiful kids. Love the one of Mable.  I hope she's continuing to improve.


----------



## Sweetened

I am in awe of Daisy's twins. When the doeling was born, she wasnt on the ground 30 dlseconds and she was trying to get her feet under her, within a minute she was standing and within 5 she was on the hunt for a boob - the buckling as well.  Their ears are already perky and firm, theyre playing, bellies are always full. 

Mable was nothing like this.  Though improving, her ears are still firming up, shes still weak on her feet and a careful, slow, mustard pooping little bugger. The difference is marked.

I stated yesterday the buckling was white with some cream colour -- he is pure, snowy white.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Isn't it awesome when it goes right?!   So glad they're doing well....and hoping that Mabel will come around.


----------



## Poka_Doodle

I'm hoping that Marble will be better soon.
Those two are impressive and very cute


----------



## Goatgirl47

Those two are so cute! Have you named them?


----------



## Sweetened

Not yet. Considering Winnifred for the doeling, but want something softer. Trying to match an older name with Sven for the buckling, since hes going to be a mini version of him lol. Klaus was mentioned, but undecided.


----------



## Baymule

Awww..... they are so cute. I am glad you got such precious twins, they are beautiful.


----------



## sadieml

We like to look for names online, like Google "Scandinavian names/words" or "German names/words".  That's how we got our male Pit's name.  Just read out a few German nouns, and chose the only one he responded to.  His name is Kartoffel (Toff for short) and it means potato, which is sort of appropriate since he's such a lazy-butt.  Also, since he's brindled, DH thinks he looks like a fresh dug russet! 

You sound a lot better.  Having those twins and little Mable seems to be working some magic.  Goatie magic is good stuff.


----------



## goats&moregoats

still praying for Mable. Glad all is going well with the twins. Cuddles with baby goats makes for good healing power.


----------



## Sweetened

No progress on Poplar.

Twins are doing well despite the cool weather.

Mable has vastly improved over the last 12 hours. While she still has goopy mustard poop still this morning, there were some mustard coloured berries left in the kennel last night, which is a nice sign. Over night, she cleaned herself up and this morning she is walking better than she ever has. She did a but twirl skip at the dog and then laid back down.


----------



## Sweetened

Hey ND owners, when do you ket kids into general population with their mothers?


----------



## Hens and Roos

we keep the doe and her kids separated but within the same area for about a week- it just depends on how well the kids are doing with nursing and moving around.


----------



## animalmom

I keep mine separated for close to two weeks... there is just a fence between the moms/babies and the herd so everyone can see and smell each other.  I do it that long more for me, to have time to play with the kids, than any other reason.  Whoops, was that a moment of honesty?


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Sorry for your rough go of things for a minute there!

Your baby is beautiful!

I like to keep my babies and moms separate for 2-3 weeks if mom will tolerate being away that long. The babies are so tiny and the more babies they have, the longer I try to keep them apart. They will be better able to handle another goat telling them off if they are faster and sturdier on their legs, as well as if they are more closely bonded to mom so they will know to run to her. When they join the herd sooner, seems they get "lost" more easily if someone gets unhappy with them. And the younger they are, the more likely they will try and nurse from the wrong mom that happens to be the same color as theirs, thus making the other groats irritated. And they seem to get used to handling better when they are confined longer. I guess I tend to hold them more when they are inside, rather than just sitting and watching more when they are outside.


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

I guess I'm on the shorter side - unless there are complications (babies are unusually small, having trouble nursing, etc) I usually only separate mom and babies for about 3-5 days, but I keep a very close eye on the herd's reaction when I put them back in.  

We've had a couple of occasions where mama goats have delivered overnight in the pasture with no warning, so we didn't even get them into birthing stalls.  May have been pure, dumb luck, but in all cases, mom and babies were fine with the herd and there was no need to separate them. The only time we had issues with any bullying was with a little doeling a couple of years ago, and we immediately separated her and mama from the rest of the herd.  We found out a few weeks later the doeling had several birth defects, and we eventually had to euthanize her due to failure to thrive.  The vet told us the herds' bullying was their 'survival of the fittest' instinct.  Her mama goat loved her and cared for her regardless of the problems, which I thought was so sweet - it showed that the mama's love instinct was the strongest!

If your goats are fairly good-natured, they will usually accept the new babies without much more than sniffing and gentle headbutting to help the kid know their place in the herd.  Mamas are generally very protective of their young and will defend them if any herd members get too out-of-line.  Mind you, this is just my personal experience.  I've only been at this for about 4 years, so I am by no means an expert.


----------



## Sweetened

The twins have their antique names.

Rose (matches daisy) and Wendel (we often cal Sven Svendel)


----------



## Sweetened

The twins have their antique names.

Rose (matches daisy) and Wendel (we often cal Sven Svendel)


----------



## samssimonsays

I LOVE the names!


----------



## Poka_Doodle

X2, they're perfect


----------



## sadieml

The names are cute.  Have you ever seen a BBC show called "Keeping up Appearances"?  There are 4 sisters named Hyacinth, Daisy, Violet, & Rose.   LOVE those marvelous British comedies!


----------



## goatgurl

love rose and wendel.   and i also am a lover of the british comedies
and @babsbag the dose that i gave sweetened was for mu-se not bo-se.  as the post said my vet was out of bo-se at the time so i had to get mu-se instead.  much smaller dose.


----------



## Sweetened

Thoughts on giving selenium shot to mother who recently gave birth?


----------



## Sweetened

Poplar is bagging up, ligs are there but I have to actually think about it to find them. Next couple days.


----------



## goatgurl

Sweetened, if it were me i would give selenium to them all.  i give it to my does about 30 days before they kid but if they are deficient they would all need it.


----------



## Sweetened

goatgurl said:


> Sweetened, if it were me i would give selenium to them all.  i give it to my does about 30 days before they kid but if they are deficient they would all need it.


My thoughts exactly. My concern is will it enter the milk and od kids?  Is the milk injestable or does it need to be poured into the garden? Poplar is ready to blow any time, would I still dose her kids? My first year giving injections.


----------



## goatgurl

i don't think it would hurt the kids.  if they come out bouncy hold off but if they act like they need it give it to them.  and milk for you or the kids?


----------



## Sweetened

Both, primarily kids for the next couple weeks though.


----------



## goatgurl

it should be fine after a couple of weeks.  i would use it myself but i do things that others don't.


----------



## babsbag

I would use it too, it is given routinely to dairy does in my area by just about every breeder I know.  Sometimes to does and kids if there are any leg issues.

@goatgurl no experience with mu-se at all, I have heard of it and that is all. But that makes sense now why the dose is so different


----------



## Sweetened

Thanks guys. Picture time.

Mable



 



 

Wendel


 



 



 


Rose


----------



## Goatgirl47

Oh they are so adorable!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Absolutely precious!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Very pretty.


----------



## Latestarter

What a bunch of cuties!  Mabel is looking OK from a picture perspective... How's she doing? You're going to have a few more here shortly I imagine.


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

So precious!  Thanks for indulging us with pictures.  My kids aren't due until May and I needed a cute baby goat fix!


----------



## luvmypets

Oh my goodness. I think I may have to take a road trip and snuggle them all


----------



## Sweetened

Mable is doing alright. Still yellow or yellow brown non solid poop but otherwise seems fine. Pees a lot... any way to housetrain a goat? Hah..


----------



## Poka_Doodle

Wow!!! They are so cute!!!


----------



## Sweetened

Single gold buckling. 4lbs 5oz. Kidding done until march-may. Pictures coming soon.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats again!  Cant wait to see pictures


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

That's fantastic news!  Loving the gold and cream coloring you're getting this year.  That seems to be the one set of colors that doesn't come through with our Nigies very often, and it's so pretty.


----------



## Sweetened

Here he is. He will be for sale.


----------



## Sweetened

HoneyDreameMomma said:


> That's fantastic news!  Loving the gold and cream coloring you're getting this year.  That seems to be the one set of colors that doesn't come through with our Nigies very often, and it's so pretty.


Its all the buck seems to be throwing! Maybe ill get some more colour variety with the doelings later this year if they bred.


----------



## Pearce Pastures

Adorable!


----------



## Poka_Doodle

So cute!!!


----------



## Goatgirl47

He's very handsome!


----------



## samssimonsays

Hes adorable but that is all Poplar had in her?! I thought for sure there'd have been at least 3!


----------



## sadieml

WOW!!!  Those girls were all enormous and sooo few babies!   Well, they are beauties, that's for sure.  All golden and snowy white, like Christmas.


----------



## babsbag

What a cutie for sure. As much as I like kids I am always happy when kidding is over. Congratulations.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

He is stinkin' cute!


----------



## animalmom

Well if he isn't stinking now he will be shortly as that handsome boy is destined to be spoiled rotten... in a good way of course.


----------



## goats&moregoats

congrats on your new addition. He is a cutie. Thanks for sharing your pictures as we wait for our own little darlings to make their appearance.


----------



## Sweetened

Poplars boy was named Oakley. He is sold to a lady out west and will ship when the weather is good, probably April. Mable is doing well. She is no longer white, but grey, due to her favorite spot being near the wood stove. I believe she has some pain in a back leg, but im uncertain as to why. When shes not bouncing around, chasing cats or playing with my Daughter, she will hold it up a bit and grind her teeth. She is otherwise doing very well. Id like to house train her. While poop is not a problem (the dog thinks shes a pez dispenser, finds it before we do), the pee is annoying and she kicks off diapers.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

You may be able to potty train her. A friend was able to train her 2 BB's to go in a litter box. I think @Queen Mum trained one of her kids to use a dog pee pad.


----------



## Sweetened

Dot bred to Duke for June 8th. She is exposed to beau and simon as well but they were too busy flubbering to get in on any action that I saw.

And we have a surprise... Lavenders kid from 2015 is bagging up! This tiny thing doesnt even look pregnant, so hopefully kids are small for her tiny frame.


----------



## Hens and Roos

, do you know around what date Lavender's kid is due?


----------



## Sweetened

Didnt even think she was pregnant. If she kids before the 20th, you can bet itll be cream and gold or white or some combo of those as itd be that registered buck. If she kids after that itll be beauregards. I figure she will probably go before the 20th but who k ows! Nice, tight little bag with nice long teats. Beautiful. Heres a picture of her as of 10 minutes prior to this post. Sorry its sodeways. The doeling to her left (bottom) is 3 months younger than her and just bred.


----------



## Latestarter

So the middle one in the picture? Looks pregnant to me... Kinda wide through the beam.


----------



## Sweetened

Latestarter said:


> So the middle one in the picture? Looks pregnant to me... Kinda wide through the beam.


yerp... thats the one. She has looked like that since the day i brought her home 4.5ish months ago, which is why i didnt see it i suppose.


----------



## Latestarter

OK... maybe she's not?  Guess we'll all find out for sure sooner or later...


----------



## Sweetened

Unless shes having a false pregnancy or major horomonal issues i suppose... but shes bagging.


----------



## Hens and Roos

looks similar to a couple of our girls.  Has she come into heat while you've had her?


----------



## Sweetened

No, not that I ever noticed


----------



## Hens and Roos

well, maybe you will have some new kids soon


----------



## Poka_Doodle

Hopefully


----------



## sadieml

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy!  Babies!  It's sooo exciting.  I can hardly wait, though I must.  Darn.  I just have no patience at all anymore.  It seems I always have to wait sooo looonnnggg.  Hey, it was a month before my 30th b-day before I met my DH.  Of course, he was WELL worth the wait.  Okay.  I'll shut-up and wait.  BUT, I can't promise a lot of patience.


----------



## goats&moregoats

Wishing you the best of luck on all your incoming babies....the waiting is the hardest part....I think


----------



## Sweetened

From Mable and the rest of us!


----------



## Hens and Roos

What a cutie!!


----------



## Baymule

That's got to be the cutest Valentine's Day card I ever saw!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

X2!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

x3! 

Love it


----------



## Poka_Doodle

X4, that's so cute.


----------



## goats&moregoats

Couldn't respond yesterday. Just way to cute! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Aww! Cute!! Happy Valentines day to you and yours too!!


----------



## sadieml

Sorry I wasn't on before now to respond to the MOST ADORABLE VALENTINE EVER!!!  
Wishing us goatie love, WOW, that's like THE most special valentine in the WORLD.  @Sweetened really LOVES US!    You are sooo SWEET!!!  From deep inside, you make us feel EXTRA special.


----------



## Sweetened

Lol  put a smile on my face too. Sge is doing quite well, and has been moved outside with this warm weather. The basement pen is still set up in the case of stupid cold weather where the heat lamp wont suffice, but right now she cuddles with the other 3, and Flower, her lamb friend.

We are on Pearls baby watch. Her ligs are relaxing and we have been playing the Incredible Reappearing Ligs game. I hate that game! My primary concern, aside from the baby being too big, is milk supply. She has a nice udder forming but there is no sign of milk. I cannot even get a single drop into a team which I'm used to being able to do. Do you think this is something I should be worried about yet?


----------



## Sweetened

Ligs are gone, baby has dropped (babies have), plug was on her tail this morning, and she isnt hivering with her Mother, (whom she is strongly bonded with) like usual. Her udder is feeling full and tight. Fingers crossed all goes well over the next few hours.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Take a deep breath.....


----------



## samssimonsays

oh boy, oh boy, OH BOY!!!


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## Ferguson K

Sounds like babies are on the way!!!


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## Poka_Doodle




----------



## Goat Whisperer

Hope all is well!


----------



## Goatgirl47

Yay!   Can't wait to see kid pictures again! 

I hope all goes well.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Sweetened

Nothing to report yet.


----------



## Goat Whisperer




----------



## Goatgirl47

Goat Whisperer said:


>



Same thing I was thinking...


----------



## luvmypets

So exciting!!


----------



## babsbag

Gives me an excuse to eat popcorn.


----------



## Sweetened

Twin bucklings, entirely unassisted between checks.

First, 1 lb 15.1oz. This boy is SO beautiful to me.



 

 

Second, 2lbs 5.5oz. Looks just like his dad.


 

 

Mom and babies. Will keep a close eye on these three.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats!


----------



## babsbag

Congrats on the cuties.  I love it when it works right.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Oh my goodness, they are beautiful Sweetened! I hope they do well for you. 

Are you hoping to keep any of them?


----------



## Sweetened

wasnt planning to, but that buckskin... will have to see how he looks as he grows.


----------



## norseofcourse

Congrats!  They look so tiny and cute


----------



## Sweetened

Tinyness perspective...


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Pure adorableness 

I feel ya on the buckskin! That is one of my favorite colors on goats


----------



## Goatgirl47

Congratulations! They are adorable!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

They are so gorgeous.  I'm so happy for you!


----------



## Latestarter

Oh my! Your daughter is beautiful! Congrats on those lovely kids too! Glad everything went as it's supposed to.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Are you sure about your weights ?
They look bigger than 1-15 and 2-5
Congrats
Your daughter is beautiful


----------



## Sweetened

Yup. Im sure about weights. They are about 1/3 the size of the other kids. They are SO small!!


----------



## Poka_Doodle

So cute.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Aww! Congratulations!! Cute pic of your daughter with a kid!


----------



## samssimonsays

Congrats! They are beautiful, or... I mean, HANDSOME


----------



## HoneyDreameMomma

If I could like that picture of your daughter and your buckling 100X I would!  So adorable!  I love seeing my little nieces and nephews with our baby goats.  There's just something so precious about it!  Gotta admit, though, it's just as fun seeing my stoic husband and my teenagers moon over the goat kids.


----------



## sadieml

Oh, @Sweetened , you are sooo blessed.  Those goaties are "man pretty".  Just gorgeous!  AND your daughter is more beautiful each time I see her pic.  If she is half as beautiful on the inside as on the outside, she is truly amazing. Admittedly, it is purely of aesthetic importance, but she is so lovely.


----------



## Ferguson K

We need updates on these adorable kids!  What did you decide on that buckskin buckling?


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah, what she said... and how about some pics of your lovely daughter as well? She must have doubled in size by now!


----------



## MrsKuhn

x3 ^^^


----------



## Poka_Doodle

X4


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I haven't heard from her either, I PM'ed her a while back ago and never got anything back


----------



## sadieml

Heellllooooo!  @Sweetened -  Dahling...where are you?  *sing-songy*

We do miss hearing from you.  You are always a delight, and it's been a while, now.  I do hope everything is alright, just busy, busy, in a good way.

Let us hear from you, soon.  We eagerly await updates...


----------



## Sweetened

Hello guys.

Sorry, things seem to get away from me so quickly these days with the farm and the kid and the warm weather.

I dont have all the new pictures yet but will get them done (nice fancy ones), but here is a couple updates.




 
Dot is bred to Duke, exposed to our blue eyes buck Simon. She is a FF, who was a triplet off a FF. Shes not huge, but certainly bigger than Pearl was when she surprised us with twins. Shes due June 3rd or 13th, I accidentally factory reset my phone. She will be seperated off this week. Udder is coming in nicely... I was going to cull her from my herd (sell) over her extra dongle on her teat, but she keeps this up and she will stick around, just needs taming, which we start on this week.



 
The twin failed to thrive, the little black guy just didnt keep up and eventually passed despite our efforts, but the buckskin grew like mad and left to his new home a couple weeks ago... I came to terms with not actually needing another buck.



 
This boy is a registered 7 year old, from the original herd I bought. The lady sold her farm and he was still there so she practically begged me to hang onto him, so I am. Havent heard from her in a couple months but dont really care, hes a good boy. He bred Lavender for July 4th (then she gets a year off) and Poplar for Sept 11th, and then she gets a year off.

We will breed Rose to Simon, Daisy to the 7 year old and Pearl to Oakley for februaryish kids next year. More pictures coming soon.


----------



## Sweetened

And heres my kid with her great aunt a couple days ago.


----------



## Southern by choice

Your daughter is beautiful, and has that happy so full of life look!
How wonderful.!

Glad you checked in. I know what it is like and sometimes you just cannot respond ... life ... it goes that way sometimes.

As far as your girls (does) really think about that taking a year off. They were designed to breed yearly... you can run into issues by skipping a year. Some does may not take again, or have issues.
It is different if they were bred and didn't settle....

Goats look great.

I had checked your blog and site and you hadn't been on their either... so glad you are ok and everything is good!


----------



## Hens and Roos

Nice to hear from you!  What a cutie your little girl is


----------



## Latestarter

Congrats on a beautiful daughter. What a joy she must be to you  Glad things are working out well with the goats. Thanks for stopping by with an update. We miss you around here yaknow...


----------



## MrsKuhn

Loving the pictures! Beautiful daughter  and some lovely looking goats too  Happy to hear life is treating you well and blessing you even if that is keeping you busy  Hope to hear more from you soon


----------



## Baymule

Your daughter is adorable and so sweet. Glad to hear from you and understand 100% how busy you must be.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Good to hear from you and so glad things are going well.  Your daughter is precious!


----------



## Sweetened

Southern by choice said:


> As far as your girls (does) really think about that taking a year off. They were designed to breed yearly... you can run into issues by skipping a year. Some does may not take again, or have issues.
> It is different if they were bred and didn't settle....



My thought process was I would breed them next September october, when I normally breed, as this is their second crop of kids this year. I know a lot of people who own NDs get two crops of kids s year from their does, and I dont so much mind that with the younger girls, but the older girls, Id like to give that break to and not do it. That is, unless that causes cycstic issues.

Dot



 


 

I expect she will drop twins, but hoping for triplets from this lovely FF. Already impressed with her udder, due soon.

Lavender


 


 

So happy she has recovered so incredibly well from her extreme copper deficiency that caused her to go BALD in 3 days. Youd never know it now. It feels like that half that didnt function in January may make a small recovery. Still a wiley broad... her kid, Mable, went to a home with my friend after the does took after her and her lamb friend. The lamb didnt make it. She is suuuuper small, so would never have been able to be in my breeding program. Is in a pet home and i get to see her on occasion.

Poplar


 

My curvy gal, and my favorite. So incredibly friendly and happy. I love, Love, LOVE this old lady.

Daisy (Left) and Rose (Right)


 
I think Daisy is pregnant, havent caught her cycling and Painter was running with her the same time lavender was in heat. Its possible I missed it, no odea when she would be due.

Rose, her daughter from Pholia Farm UB Pendelton, is a gorgeous girl, and will be bred to Simon this fall for next years kids! Hoping for some plentiful colour. Just love her, super friendly and petite like her mom.

Oakley (Left) and Simon (Right)


 

We decided to keep Oakley over Wendle. Wendel found a home with a VERY well to do owner in BC, and will be the primary breeders in her unregistered herd. Lucky boy. Oakley is lovely though, meatier with excellent growth, very level, good feet. No white poll. Has some white flecking throughout. Simon, our blue eyed beauty, is growing well and is also very level, great feet, and incredibly friendly. Looking forward to his first kids next year.


----------



## samssimonsays

Beautiful photos!


----------



## Latestarter

That's a really gorgeous herd you have there. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Baymule

What a beautiful bunch of adorable goaties!


----------



## sadieml

Your herd is AWESOME!  Your baby girl is BEAUTIFUL!!!  It's amazing watching them grow up.  My baby girl turned 14 on May 14, and is almost a woman.  I know I'm biased, but she really is beautiful, and such a figure...I'm glad my boys are big (6' 5", 230 & 6' , 175).  Boys dare not look for long.  More than once I have wanted to confront someone with "Excuse me, but that is my BABY you are ogling, and in 2 more seconds you're gonna be sorry!"  With your girl's looks, my Nannie would say "You sure are gonna be an ugly woman, 'cause you are one BEAUTIFUL baby."  (Here in the south, there's an old wives' tale that pretty babies grow up ugly.)


----------



## MrsKuhn

WOW they are stunning


----------



## MrsKuhn

I am in love with DOT


----------



## Hens and Roos

very nice looking group!


----------



## Sweetened

Dot's day 140 is tomorrow. Still not taming down. Hopefully i can be there for the birth, tends to build a bit of a trust bond in my past experience. Bumped her and can feel a mess of pointy parts, so thats good. She has thinned way down, lost her plug a couple days ago, ligs firm. BABY WATCH IS ON.

And... SURPRISE, Daisy is bred. I can only tell you she is bred to Painter, the registered buck. For when? WTFK! I dont usually have much luck palpating these guys, so she could be super close or a couple months out yet if shes carrying a few.  i was able to feel a kid with zero effort, and in the past, they have only been 10 days out...

Website updated. Steadfastfarm.ca if anyine wants to have a look and offer comments or suggestions...


----------



## Baymule

I hope Dot calms down for you. And congrats on Daisy being bred.

I just want to tell you that you are my hero. You have your farm, your goats, does having kids, milking, and all the things that go with having a farm. PLUS you have a baby and that is pretty much a full time job by itself. I know you got a bit overwhelmed when your baby was born, but you persevered and hung in there. I am so proud of you and what you have accomplished. You are a living example to your child and an inspiration to us all.


----------



## Sweetened

Baymule said:


> I hope Dot calms down for you. And congrats on Daisy being bred.
> 
> I just want to tell you that you are my hero. You have your farm, your goats, does having kids, milking, and all the things that go with having a farm. PLUS you have a baby and that is pretty much a full time job by itself. I know you got a bit overwhelmed when your baby was born, but you persevered and hung in there. I am so proud of you and what you have accomplished. You are a living example to your child and an inspiration to us all.



Ahaha! This made me blush, then chuckle. I shouldnt be anybodys hero, especially not for the reason above. I realised something after having Eva: I have no idea how our species has survived the last 6 or 7 centuries. I have choices I can make throughout my day: feed the animals now or wait until hubby gets home, make bread or go to the store and buy some, milk the cow or leave her with the calf, make goat soap or have it delivered via amazon. If I didnt have those choices, no one to turn to as pioneer women experienced in seclusion when men were gone or dead, the possibility of feeding myself and my child to a pack of wolves, may become heavenly!  There are plenty of parents out there who will say they never once had a dark thought about their children, who havent thought of putting the baby down and walking off a cliff; they will tell you they dont understand how parents lose track of their kids. They will tell you that, but they know. Its those tired moments when you doze off for TWO seconds and the baby rolls off the couch or crawls into the kitchen and tumbles head long down the basement stairs; its that 23 second race back to the house to grab [insert forgotten item here] and youll only be one second as the kid reaches its hand into the pig pen and gets bit. Its that brief moment where the thing between you and the parent who goes to jail for shaking their kid has the voice that screams PUT IT DOWN!

I dont know how they did it, how we made it these few hundred years as a society that doesnt raise a child with a village. Some days, you just do. They dont get watered in a timely manner, sometimes I wake up at night and scream the Fword knowing I forgot to feed everyone and that the chickens havent had water for two days and I throw on some clothes (maybe) and trudge out in the dead of night to do it.

Thanks lovely, but im no hero, there are better people to look up to.


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## Baymule

It is precisely because of all the things you just listed that makes you a hero. We all have our bad days that sometimes stretch into weeks...... but never give up. Yes, we have it easy when compared to our ancestors, but we still have our struggles and challenges. You are a Mom, raising her child, raising her animals and providing a better life for her family. Sometimes a little recognition goes a long ways, and you deserve it.


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## Latestarter

You explained it quite well... Most of us have "been there" too. Not much to be added. Hang in there, it's all worth it in the end.


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## Hens and Roos

Nicely said, we all have days...


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## Sweetened

This is my first ND with a due date... what day do you find your FFs go?

Day 140:
Udder is SPACIOUS. Getting bigger without filling up, i think she is going to have a giant capacity, or on the other end, be all flesh. She has more milk, but so much space, Im legitimately excited.

Her ligs are still hard, no goop.


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## Hens and Roos

thinking back our FF's went around day145 or day 146

 to you and your does!


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## Goat Whisperer

Our NDs tend to go before day 150. I think 146-7 is our average. The earliest I have had a doe go was 144. That does daughter who lives at a clients farm, kidded on day 140. She was a FF. I wouldn't say that's the norm for them to go that early though. I go by the looks, not really the date. 

I think @OneFineAcre said most of his does go before day 150 but I don't remember.


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## Goat Whisperer

Oh, you need a barncam!


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## OneFineAcre

Average 
147


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## Sweetened

Oi, hoping for 145/6 then as we are out of town for 3 days after that. The people I have watching the farm know what they are doing, but Id sure like to be here. Commence day 141.


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## Sweetened

Day 141 pictures.


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## Hens and Roos

what a cute face she has, I like her pink nose!


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## Sweetened

Dots day 143 is today. L9gs are relaxed but finable, no udder progress.

Daaaisy.... i checked her ligs this mornjng because her tail head seemed hollow. I have to think hard about them to find them. They are there but barely :/ whyyyyy when I am going out of town!!


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## samssimonsays

Doe code


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## Sweetened

I went back through this thread and found stuff about Daisy. Her 'pattern' seems wholly honest. I was a bit distracted by the whole Gardenia thing. As my memory serves me, once those ligs started going, they were gone gone. No screwjng around. Thereafter, it was 46 hours until kids on the ground.


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## Sweetened

So, here is Daisy today, full rumen as well. Cant go by the udder as she was still nursing rose until 5 hours ago. Can barely identify ligs, only at the bottom.













You can actually SEE kids in this photo. I felt her side and its a squrimy, tight wiggly mass.





Guesses on how many, what and when?

3 possible fathers... one of which I will be able to identify kids as all his offspring have his patterning... otherwise, i will assume the kids are from my blue eyed buck even though the other one is gone, just to be safe.


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## Sweetened

What is herncolour pattern anyway? I call her chocolate but thinking maybe thats wrong. And is that moonspotting at the front leg there? Dont think so but cant say Ive ever noticed it so may as well ask.


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## Baymule

I think for a bunch of these goat and sheep color names, a bunch of rednecks got drunk and they were shown a color wheel. Whatever gibberish came out, became the name of that color.


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## Sweetened

Lol! Every time I hear 'Sundgau' im compelled to say: Bless you.


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## Sweetened

Daisy full ligs this morning...


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## Sweetened

Day 145 for Dot begins today. And while she has certainly thinned down in the sides and the pins, nothing is really going on in the lig department. Daisy isnt so honest with ligs this time around..., depening how she is standing I can feel them, but otherwise, I struggle to find them. Neither have goop. Le sigh.

For dot Im guessing single. Buckling with my luck.


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## Hens and Roos




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## Sweetened

Daisy's ligaments have been gone gone since about 11:30 this morning. Last 2 checks I havent had to chase Dot around and last check I couldnt find her ligaments. Both have hollowed out and dropped significantly. Lets hope these girls can co parent because, at the moment, I have no other safe place for these girls...


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## Sweetened

This is KILLING ME. Pleeeeease go today....


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## samssimonsays




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## Sweetened

Daisy still has no ligs


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## Baymule




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## Sweetened

Home early from being away, nothing yet. Dot, full ligs.

Daisy STILL no ligs. No distress, kids are all moving, did a sweep and she is fully dilated but nothing presenting. No goop. So just keeping an eye...


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## TAH




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## Hens and Roos




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## Baymule

At least they didn't kid while you were away.


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## Sweetened

Finally a little action. Daisy has had plug type mucous skiffs on and off for the past 12 hours or so. Checked kids, good movement, can only feel them down low so guessing they are engaged. Im thinking tonight, when its at its buggiest!


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## Latestarter

Hope it all goes smoothly for you.


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## TAH




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## Sweetened




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## Hens and Roos

How are things this morning?


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## samssimonsays




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## Sweetened

Unchanged.


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## Sweetened

Dot day 150 today.


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## Sweetened

I think Ill just die now... go out and check her, shes laying down, glazed look, breathing awkwardly, small grunts. Her vulva is wide open from the pressure in there, goopy discharge so I think to myself, FINALLY. Go grab the play pen for MY kid (who was 10 days late, look whos talking), do a couple other things, wander it over there and shes up, munching hay, dry as can be back there. 

If you'll excuse me, im off to find a spoon to do myself in with.


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## frustratedearthmother

Par for the course... lol!     Hang in there...


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## Baymule

I trying to get a mental image of doing one's self in with a spoon.....


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## Sweetened

Im still trying to figure that out... seems I just end up with it hanging from my nose.


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## Sweetened

I need input...

Daisy kidded January 8th. Assuming that she is due any time soon considering her ligs have been GONE for 5 days now, this puts her having cycled 1-2 weeks after kidding... is that even POSSIBLE?! NO WONDER I didnt notice. That would mean, essentially, she bred the day or two after being let out into the doe pen OR one of the bucklings crawled in with her, which I remember having chased him out of there because he was under the heat lamp. Either way, this means a chance for blue eyed babies!

If bred at 1 week postpartum, she would be day 150 with Dot. At 2 weeks, her 145 would be Wednesday. At 3 weeks it'd be the 22nd. Why on earth would she go without ligs that long if it wasnt on the closer side?


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## Baymule

Sweetened said:


> I need input...
> 
> Why on earth would she go without ligs that long if it wasnt on the closer side?



To drive you nuts.


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## Sweetened

Well its WORKING



More pluggy discharge. Apperently that girl has a huge one.  She hangs so low. Noticed her bag filling back out, heavier near the teats than it was.  She is so crammed in there, I can see kid movement along her spine above her rumen on the left hand side.  But, right so, like 2 weeks yet right? *sigh*

Dot had a bit of plugginess but no movement on ligs again. Thought she was losing them a few days ago, but turns out it was ME losing something.

Prepping for another night of disappointment.


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## Hens and Roos

Any updates??


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## Sweetened

Sorry, no updates anymore, Sweetened killed herself with a spoon.

No... Daisy has officially been without ligs and dilated for 7 days. She is either day 152 with Dot, day 145, or day 138. Id reach on there and pull those kids out myself I could but shes not distressed. She is so hollow its stupid, she has kid movement on the left side and down by the udder (se with Dot) but, unless laying down, can barely find kids on the right. Daisy was glassy eyed yesterday, not today. Neither have goop. Dry as a bone.


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## babsbag

Let's see, go on another vacation, have company for dinner, have some event you can't miss, like a wedding, forget to check on them...that will work. 

I have one more to freshen this year, due between June 9 and June 23. Being the last of 28 goats to freshen I just wish she would get it over with. She is one of the three that I didn't have an exact date on so I refuse to check her, that is why I have my LGD, he knows what to do and will let me know if she kidded. 

Good luck and try to stay sane.


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## Sweetened

The kid needed me, so I only checked them once last night. Thought for sure id have kids this morning. NOPE!

im concerned about her bejng dilated for 7 days. Ive scrubbed and lubed and done a sweep three seperate times and there is nothjng oresented. I hope theres not a mangled mess of kids in there that are presenting labir from continuing, but she is DRY. Aside froma couple plug type discharges, DRY. Sme with dot, but she has ligs so im less concerned.


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## babsbag

Gosh I hope not too. There really isn't much to do but wait and lose your mind. I have never really paid much attention to ligs or dilating; I am not one to go "fishing" unless I have to.


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## Sweetened

Shes fine, i believe. She is loose or soft about 1/5th of her spine up from her tail, which is different. So I have set a "wash kitchen floor and nap Eva before recheck" goal or Id just be outside, wiggling a spoon around in my ear and trying to hollar into her HooHah: YOU HAVE OFFICIALLY BEEN SERVED YOUR EVICTION NOTICE! GTFO!

Just found out a cat aborted in my house :/ followed the blood trail, two weirdly formed kittens aborted. Fun. Better not be an omen.


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## samssimonsays

Oh no! I hope not!  So sorry for the kittens....


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## Hens and Roos

Sorry about the kittens and hang in there!!


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## Latestarter

I feel for ya... Try to stay sane. Hope it's not issues of any kind.


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## Sweetened

Dont think it is... its just not typical of my limited experience! Went out to do my 'last check until hubby comes home' and she had some white discharge presenting. So yeah, wont be my last check before hubby comes home. Nope. Ill go out and get disappointed at least once more.


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## luvmypets

Cmon kids !


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## Sweetened

Yeah no. Dry as a bone again. Lots of laying down though.


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## Goat Whisperer

Just go in the barn and yell Y'ALL AREN'T EVEN PREGNANT and storm off while saying you are DONE with night checks. You'll walk out and find a bunch of kids running around the next morning.

Seriously though, just hand in there


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## Sweetened

And so begins another day of disappointment.

Day 153 for Dot, no change
Day 153, 146 or 139 for Daisy. Oh and, no change.


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## Hens and Roos




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## Sweetened

Dots ligaments are still there, but when i felt them early they felt like... bubbly crunchy oatmeal at the top, as though when I pressed down, air bubbles moved 

Thats new to me.


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## Latestarter

These girls are going above and beyond!


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## Sweetened

Theyre going to put me 6ft under.


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## misfitmorgan

Our ND alice did the same to us took 3 weeks of us thinking...any minute now...i finally gave up and let her out of the kidding stall while we were barn cleaning, went to get dinner in the house came out and twin does on the filthiest part of the floor we had not cleaned yet....the brat!
Hopefully they will get it over with soon.


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## Sweetened

@misfitmorgan 3 weeks!!!!??


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## TAH

Sweetened said:


> @misfitmorgan 3 weeks!!!!??


Hope it doesn't take that long for you.


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## Sweetened

Not that it means anything but daisy has been sticky for a few hours


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## BlessedWithGoats

Best wishes for a safe delivery!


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## Sweetened

Dot day 154 - ligs feel loose
Daisy day 154/147/140 - has been sticky sknce about 5pm yesterday. Thought I saw a few minor contractions but when she got up to wander around and I checked for ligaments... she had full ligaments...


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## misfitmorgan

Sweetened said:


> @misfitmorgan 3 weeks!!!!??


mhmm....3 weeks...


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## babsbag

Doe's Secret Code of Honor
The doe's secret code of honor is as old as goats themselves and is ultimately the species best kept secret. No doe shall ever kid before its time. (Its time being determined by the following factors): 

1- No kid shall be born until total chaos has been reached by all involved. Your owner's house must be a wreck, their family hungry and desperate for clean clothes, and their social life nonexistent. 
2- "Midwives" must reach the babbling fool status before you kid out. Bloodshot eyes, tangled hair and the inability to form a sentence mean the time is getting close. 
3- For every bell, beeper, camera or whistle they attach to you, kidding must be delayed by at least one day for each item. If they use an audio monitor, one good yell per hour will keep things interesting. 
4- If you hear the words, "She's nowhere near ready. She'll be fine while we're away for the weekend," Wait until they load the car, then begin pushing! 
5- Owner stress must be at an all time high! If you are in the care of someone else, ten to fifteen phone calls a day is a sign you're getting close. 
6- When you hear the words "I can't take it anymore!" wait at least three more days. 
7 -You must keep this waiting game interesting. False alarms are mandatory! Little teasers such as looking at your stomach, pushing your food around in the bucket and then walking away from it, and nesting, are always good for a rise. Be creative and find new things to do to keep the adrenaline pumping in those who wait. 
8- The honor of all goats is now in your hands. Use this time to avenge all of your barn mates. Think about your friend who had to wear that silly costume in front of those people. Hang onto that baby for another day. OH, they made him do tricks too! Three more days seems fair. Late feedings, the dreaded diet, bad haircuts, those awful wormings can also be avenged at this time. 
9- If you have fulfilled all of the above and are still not sure when to have the kids, listen to the weather forecast on the radio that has been so generously provided by those who wait. Severe storm warning is what you're waiting for. In the heart of the storm jump into action! The power could go out and you could have the last laugh. You have a good chance of those who wait missing the whole thing while searching for a flashlight that works! 
10- Make the most of your interrupted nights. Beg for food each time someone comes into the barn to check you. Your barn mates will love you as the extra goodies fall their way too. 

Remember, this code of honor was designed to remind man of how truly special goats are. Do your best to reward those who wait with a beautiful doeling to carry on the Doe Code of Honor for the next generation of those who wait!


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## Ferguson K

Babs I knew you would show up with Doe Code!


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## Sweetened

156/149/142 for daisy. Im betting 142. If so, the is bred to the registered buck thats staying here, and that will be proven by his kids since he ALWAYS throes what looks like him. Ive seen 30 seperate kids of his and they all have the same look.

156 for dot. Willing to bet she didnt settle and thus wouldnt be due until after daisy.

Ive stopped checking every hour and gotten on with my life. If I wake at night and stay awake through feeding the baby I go out, i otherwise dont worry about it.


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## misfitmorgan

Sweetened said:


> 156/149/142 for daisy. Im betting 142. If so, the is bred to the registered buck thats staying here, and that will be proven by his kids since he ALWAYS throes what looks like him. Ive seen 30 seperate kids of his and they all have the same look.
> 
> 156 for dot. Willing to bet she didnt settle and thus wouldnt be due until after daisy.
> 
> Ive stopped checking every hour and gotten on with my life. If I wake at night and stay awake through feeding the baby I go out, i otherwise dont worry about it.



This is what i do...i would lose my mind if i tried to do hourly checks when anyone was close to kidding. The only thing we do differently when does are close is check on them twice a day instead of once. We have been lucky in not having any problems with anyone kidding.


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## Sweetened

Im usually an hourly person because we have yet to have a group kid without some kind of problem from simple presentation issues to tangled kids and ringwomb.


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## misfitmorgan

Sweetened said:


> Im usually an hourly person because we have yet to have a group kid without some kind of problem from simple presentation issues to tangled kids and ringwomb.



Yeah luckily we have never any birthing issues as of yet. The only problem we ever had with kidding was frostbit ears and one of the does retained a placenta so we had to give her a course of Pen G.

Hopefully these two are easy peasy with no issues for you.


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## misfitmorgan




----------



## Sweetened

Tell me about it...


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## Hens and Roos

your girls still holding out


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## TAH

Any update on the girls?


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## misfitmorgan

I'm gonna say something had to be mis-counted or didnt settle when you thought they did perhaps cause they woud be day 165/66 today i think? and thats insane.


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## TAH

misfitmorgan said:


> I'm gonna say something had to be mis-counted or didnt settle when you thought they did perhaps cause they woud be day 165/66 today i think? and thats insane.


x2


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## babsbag

On June 19 she thought that perhaps Daisy was on day 142 so that means today would be day 151. Something has to happen soon.


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## Sweetened

So Dot kidded on what would be 144 if she didnt catch, and judging by the kids, thats correct as these aredefinitely painter babies. Buckling is the white one. Doeling is the black.


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## Sweetened

Sire. 7 years old, registered.


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## TAH

Finally. They are so pretty


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!!  They are sure cute


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## BlessedWithGoats

Congratulations!!


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## frustratedearthmother

Congrats!


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## Latestarter

Nice coloration on the kids. Congrats!


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## Sweetened

Doeling - "Dahlia"



 



 



 



 



 

Buckling - As yet, un-named.  I will be taking a serious look at retaining him as a replacement for Painter.  Painter is getting up there in age...


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## Goat Whisperer

They are beautiful! Congratulations!


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## Shorty

Ya know I never realize how tiny those babies are until I see them next to a cat lol. They are adorable congrats!


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## animalmom

Well worth waiting for!  They are both adorable, but oh my word, that doeling with her blue eyes is just precious. 

So, has your sanity returned?


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## babsbag

So adorable and seem to be doing well and glad it all went ok. Kitty is checking out the new additions...curious creatures...both the cat and the goats.


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## Sweetened

Lol no sanity yet, STILL waiting on Daisy who is STILL without ligs.

The doeling will not keep her blue eyes i dont think, they are brown at the edges. Both sire and dam are vrown eyed so i have no idea how they have these blue eyes.


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## Sweetened

So yesterday, a couple hours after I left to go camping and a day early, Lavender put twins on the ground. Doeling is the light buckskin.


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## Latestarter

Now see? Isn't that something? It's like they KNOW when you're not paying attention and that's when they pop. So glad there were no issues... Kids look great! Udder looks real nice too. Congrats!


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## Sweetened

Yeah, too bad she only has one side, lost it the year prior to me purchasing her.


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!! How are the others doing?


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## Sweetened

Really well. Vigorous!


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## TAH

Oh boy I am going to have to try that.


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## samssimonsays

Congrats!


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## BlessedWithGoats

Congrats!!


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## Sweetened

Thanks!


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## misfitmorgan

The kids are Adorable!! Congrats


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## Sweetened

Lav's kids

Buckling



 



 


Doeling. Shes a ragged looking bugger!


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## Sweetened

We got home on the 5th from camping, checked out lavs kids, looked disappointedly at Daisy and went about our day.  Around 2 I headed out to feed everyonr and gawked at how much lavenders buckling changed... wait a minute... 1, 2, 3,.... 5...FIVE!? Ran back to the house, grabbed camera, scale, selenium, hubby and kid and raced back out. Daisy had TRIPLETS.

Doeling, 3lbs 3oz


 

Buckling, 2lbs 15oz


 

Buckling, 1lb 14oz


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!!! What a bunch of cuties!


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## misfitmorgan

oh my that last buckling is so stinking cute!!


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## Sweetened

misfitmorgan said:


> oh my that last buckling is so stinking cute!!



And thats why its not a doeling. Ill be taking another full breeding off this buck to hope for some flashy does.

Poplar is due september 11th to him, if she settled. I only bred her on her first day to test a theory. We will see what she puts on the ground for me.


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## babsbag

OK, so now I have to drive to Canada and steal that last little guy and then smuggle him into the US and more importantly into CA. That will not be easy. But he is sooo cute; I want to snuggle them all. Congrats.


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## animalmom

Oh my word but you do have some flashy good looking bucklings!


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## Goat Whisperer

Congrats! Great pics!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Wow.  A lot has happened since the last time I checked in.
Congrats.


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## TAH

Congrats!!


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## Latestarter

Holy crow! I missed so much since my last post! Those are some special looking babes! All that worrying you were doing and twice you "missed it" and they delivered for you without a hitch! Sorry more boys than girls, but hopefully next round they'll make up for it for you. Congrats!


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## Sweetened

Everyone is growing so fast!

Daisy's January doeling, Rose.



 

Poplar's January buckling, Oakley (Madonna)


 

Dot's twins Dahlia


 

And so-far unnamed buckling


 

Lavenders twins George


 

And Opal


 

And Daisy's triplets Woodrow


----------



## Sweetened

And Abraham (front) and Mae (Rear)


 

And my favorite on her birthday getting a rare sweet


 

And with Memaw (who gave her a clover that she love squished)


----------



## Alexz7272

Adorable!!


----------



## Hens and Roos

very cute pictures!!


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## TAH

Cutes 1year old and goats


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## Latestarter

Thanks for sharing and Happy Belated Birthday to your beautiful daughter.


----------



## Sweetened

Poplar is due on the 11th.  Stay tuned!


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## luvmypets




----------



## Hens and Roos




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## Sweetened

So, I dont know whats going on. She started to bag up a bit and then today she has been having some bloody discharge. However, Ligs are firm and sge doesnt appear to be pregnant as I cannot bump anything in there and she has thinned right down. Ive been trying to bump her for two weeks with no luck. The bleeding today makes me wonder cloud burst? Maybe she has one in there and is prepping. No distress or eating changes. Pooping and peeing normally.


----------



## samssimonsays

Sweetened said:


> So, I dont know whats going on. She started to bag up a bit and then today she has been having some bloody discharge. However, Ligs are firm and sge doesnt appear to be pregnant as I cannot bump anything in there and she has thinned right down. Ive been trying to bump her for two weeks with no luck. The bleeding today makes me wonder cloud burst? Maybe she has one in there and is prepping. No distress or eating changes. Pooping and peeing normally.


Any news?


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## Sweetened

WOW. How did I miss this!? Poplar cloudbursted. She has been rebred for feb/march


----------



## Baymule

Adorable kids! Glad you posted, it's been too long since we heard from you. How is everything else going? Your daughter is so precious, so beautiful.

What is cloud burst?


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## samssimonsays

It's been so long and it is so nice to hear from you  I too am wondering what cloud bursted is?


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## Sweetened

A cloud burst is another name for false pregnancy.


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## samssimonsays

Sweetened said:


> A cloud burst is another name for false pregnancy.


Ohhhh! That makes sense now! Thank you!


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## Baymule

I see you started a 2017 thread, think I'll mosey on over there and check in on what is happening in 2017...


----------

