# 3 day old ND kid, weak, not nursing, not standing - PICTURES!



## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 11, 2013)

I just inherited a bottle baby. Mom had triplets, this one couldn't win.

She's finally hold her own temp - she's at 103

Just tubed her to get some colostrum in her 1.5 ounces.

I gave her a tiny amount of b12 gel.

Breeder gave her a shot of BoSe on Wednesday.

I have her laying on a heating pad to help keep her warm.

She is not moving, just laying still. watching me.

What else should I do?


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 11, 2013)

How old is she?

She won't suckle at all?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 11, 2013)

Does she sound at all 'sloshy' if you pick her up and rock her back and forth? I am ruling out selenium deficiency given the BoSe.  How long have you had her with you and away from mom?    Did she have a low temp and what was it before?  Was her cord dipped in iodine after being born?


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 11, 2013)

They pulled her from mom this morning when they found her cold.

I'm not sure if the cord was dipped or not.

Her lungs don't sound bad to me. 

Should I give her more B12?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 11, 2013)

Squirrelgirl88 said:
			
		

> They pulled her from mom this morning when they found her cold.
> 
> I'm not sure if the cord was dipped or not.
> 
> ...


Okay, one reason she may not want to eat is a) she was cold and her digestive system was slowed and b) she just left her mother.  If she hasn't been on a bottle before, it might take some work to get her to take one but she will.

When I say sloshy, I meant her stomachs.  If it sounds like fluid is sloshing around in there, give her baking soda and look up Floppy Kid Syndrome.

B12 will not hurt as it is water soluble so go ahead with that.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 11, 2013)

They have been tube feeding her all day (since this morning) - every 2 hours they were giving her 1.5 to 2 oz. 

She will not suckle at all. 

She did not have any B12 until she got here. 

No poop all day, but she is urinating


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 11, 2013)

add some baking soda to the next tube feeding.  1/4 teaspoon for smaller breed,  1/2 for larger breed.  You don't need to tube that often,  every 4 to 6 hours would be better.  Add a little light corn syrup also, 1/2 to 1 teaspoon.  Not every time, but one ones or twice.  The corn syrup is a different kind of sugar energy and may help, plus can help with any possible constipation. 

yes, you can give more B, you can't overdose on it.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 11, 2013)

Gave a tiny bit more B12

Tube feed 2 oz with 1/8 tsp Baking Soda.

She actually stood for a few minutes.

going to bed for a few hours, and then starting this again.


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 11, 2013)

I dont think she's gonna get hungry enough to try and suck feeding her that often. Also are you trying to get her to take the bottle before you tube her? Her best chance is getting her on a bottle IMO.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 12, 2013)

Just tried the bottle again. She isn't sucking.

She is at least holding her head up on her own now.

Tried to get her to stand. She is not bending her back legs they are stiff.

Calling the vet this am


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 12, 2013)

YAH - we have poop. Finally.

Just tubed her with 2 more ounces, she's trying to stand, but very wobbly.

It's almost like her balance is off. Vertigo. 

Calling vet as soon as they open.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 12, 2013)

Squirrelgirl88 said:
			
		

> YAH - we have poop. Finally.
> 
> Just tubed her with 2 more ounces, she's trying to stand, but very wobbly.
> 
> ...


Are you still doing baking soda?


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 12, 2013)

Only did it the one time.

We see the vet in one hour.

What does the baking soda do for them?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 12, 2013)

If the kid has Floppy Kid Syndrome, baking soda is the usual treatment in correcting it and preventing eventual death.

Article that summarizes FKS nicely.  It just seems to me to fit.  You don't have a fever, no diarrehea, it is not polio or white muscle disease, the kid is far to young for a parasite issue...so I am going with a case of FKS.  

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/goats/Resources/GoatArticles/GoatHealth/KidCare/Floppykid1.pdf


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## julierx1 (Jan 12, 2013)

Thank You so much Pearce Pastures. I had not read this article and it will help out in the future.


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## Four Winds Ranch (Jan 12, 2013)

X2! Thanks!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 12, 2013)

Also, the baking soda will help settle her stomach, since you are giving her milk and she isn't mobile, she is at risk for  bloat.  I would maybe use it twice a day.  You can give the B a couple times a day as well. 

good luck at the vets.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 12, 2013)

Back from the vet.

She weighs 2.5 pounds. 

Vet gave her B complex injection for the Thiamine. And cefovecin for anything else going on.

She said to tube feed her every 2 hours until she is strong enough to nurse on her own and then lengthen the time between feedings.

We have poop now, so that means her insides are working.

I forgot to ask about the baking soda, but I'll keep giving it twice a day.

She also has a congenital cataract on her left eye. Theres a new one for me.

So basically, I did manage to pull her through the night and we should be on our way up from here.

Thanks to all who posted and gave advice.

I will post a picture of my little one soon.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 12, 2013)

Not the best pictures. She's so tiny.

Black and White with blue eyes.


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## marlowmanor (Jan 12, 2013)

Squirrelgirl88 said:
			
		

> [url]http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/thumbs/3869_p1120111.jpg[/url]
> 
> [url]http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/thumbs/3869_p1120110.jpg[/url]
> 
> ...


 I want her! 
Hope she starts getting better for you.


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## Four Winds Ranch (Jan 12, 2013)

How cute!!!! She is adorable!!
Good luck!!! They can be a lot of work, but soooo worth it!!!


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## Roll farms (Jan 12, 2013)

Wayyy cute, good luck w/ her.

I've found that an oft-fed (tubed) kid won't suckle b/c they don't get a chance to get hungry.  As she gets stronger and you space out the feedings she may well figure it all out.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 12, 2013)

I'm having trouble finding a nipple that will work.

One for puppies and kittens is too small. Human baby bottle is too big.

I checked TSC and everything they had was way too big.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 12, 2013)

We use the red pritchard nipples (TSC usually has them though they are really pricey considering I can order them through Jeffers at a fraction of that, but when you need something fast...).  After being on mom, you will have to put the nipple in her mouth and hold her on it to get milk in her.  Be prepared for a mess and a bit of frustration but in a week, she will be much easier about taking it.  Letting her get hungry will help.


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## currycomb (Jan 12, 2013)

yes, the pritchard nipples are great for the smaller goats. put something sweet on the nipple, and then wait till she starts looking around for food. i hate to tube feed, irritates the esophagus if done too often


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 12, 2013)

I looked at the Pritchard ones - they are huge. 

I'm not sure how much a Nigerian baby should weigh, but she's tiny to me.

Our doe had a single this year and she was big.

Trying the puppy bottle again. At least she's fighting me. Last night I could have done anything to her ans she just laid there.

So should she be put back with mom and bottle fed, or is she mine full time now?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 12, 2013)

We use pritchards with out NDs and we bottle feed exclusively here--she is only resisting because it is new to her.  I would not try to put her back on mom at this point and would just keep working on the bottle.  I am sure it is frustrating but she will get it.  Use a finger to prop open the corner of her mouth to slide the nipple in, then cup her nose around it with you hand.  You might even gently squeeze a few drips in to get the taste in her mouth and trigger swallowing (not too much though--don't want her to aspirate it).  If you can cut out the tube feedings and try to stick to three feedings a day, 4-6 ounces at a time, she will start taking the bottle eagerly in a few days.

Edited to add that her weight is perfect.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 12, 2013)

I've never tube fed one, but when we've had weak kids we would just use a syringe to get colustrum in there mouth and watch for them to start swallowing.

That might be an interim step you could try, just take a syringe and squirt a small amount in her mouth to get the swallowing action going first.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 12, 2013)

*She is so cute!  I sure hope she gets better for you!*


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 15, 2013)

She WILL NOT take a bottle. I tried spacing out the feedings so she'd be REAL hungry. Nope.

Has anyone taught a kid to drink out of a bowl like an adult?

I'm desperate.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 15, 2013)

I would leave her go for 8 to 10 hours before trying a bottle. 
What are you considering spacing out?   Then just put the nipple(if prefer prichard) in her mouth and do not squeeze if they get too much milk in their mouth it can scare them.  The pritchard will drip enough milk in that she should swallow it.  Even if she sucks for 5 seconds and stop, call it good enough. then wait another 2 or 3 hours and do it again.  
Milk should be  at body temp or a degree above.  Temp. of milk is important.  The baby we were tube feeding,  went 12 hours from the last tub feding before any sucking started, and then even part of that day he only drank 1/2(15 cc's) ounce a couple times before finally drinking 3 or 4 ounces.  This was a 9 lb kid at 5 days old. He would normally be drinking 8 to 10 ounces at a time. 

I think it will take a day of him practically starving to get a sucking reflex back.  You can't tube feed him forever.  He can put a bowl of warm milk out, but in my personal opinion he is going to need to be really hungry to try that as well.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 15, 2013)

Never done a bowl, but have trained several kids that were not bottle fed at first.  It takes a lot of work the first week to get them to take and you will have to open her mouth, put the nipple in, hold her muzzle on the bottle, and will make a mess in the process.  I am not sure if you are still trying with the pritchards or lamb nipples, but they are designed to the shape that a kid would normally latch onto and they work really well once the kid learns to use them.  Do you happen to have any goat people in you area?  It would be nice if someone could show you in person.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 15, 2013)

Another Vet visit today. Now she has pneumonia. I had to give her back to the breeder on Sunday night because my work schedule does not allow for tube feedings every few hours. She's now on another antibiotic for the next four days.

The breeder has been trying everything she has. The Pritchard nipples are even larger than what we already have.

The vet said to keep up the tube feeding every two hours but cut the amount back to 1oz at a time instead of 2oz. The vet also gave her a larger syringe to try and get some sucking reflex going. 

My Nigerian Doe is still in milk - not much - but she's still letting her 10 week old kid nurse. Should I just strap her into the milk stand and hold her to let the baby get some nurishment? She may never forgive me if I force a strange kid on her. 

My frustration level is at an all time high.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 15, 2013)

I doubt that the kid will suckle mom but you could try I guess.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm picking up the little one from the breeder to keep her for the weekend. My Hoeggers order has been overnighted - four different kinds of nipples. I'm going to throw everything I have at this little one to get her to nurse. 

She's peeing and pooping regularly, seems to have more energy. She's "tasting" everything she gets her mouth on. 

Think good thoughts everyone!


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## Roll farms (Jan 18, 2013)




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## bonbean01 (Jan 18, 2013)




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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 18, 2013)

Well we tried another plan tonight. I put my other doe on the milk stand and held her while the baby nursed. I have a baby with a full tummy, and a very ticked off doe. 

The pritchard nipple is the smallest I have. She gets in in her mouth and then chews on it instead of nursing.

I can't force her on this doe every two hours, but at least I know she has some nursing instinct.

Stubborn little goat anyway................ :/


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 18, 2013)

Chewing is good!!!   That is a great start and you should be encouraged.  Keep it up!


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 19, 2013)

This may sound silly, but.... maybe you could try rubbing the bottle and nipple all over the teat of the doe your kid nursed (like, a lot of rubbing on the teat to really get the smell ALL over it), and then squirt the doe's milk on the nipple, even have a cup of the doe's milk nearby to dip the bottle nipple in it, for the flavor (and smell) of 'real' goats milk from the 'tap', and see if she goes for the bottle a bit more eagerly?  Maybe that will help her adjust more quickly?

Sorry if that sounds odd.... but I know how it feels to really want and need a kid to accept a bottle, and I am just going out on a limb here for ideas..

Hoping for the best for you little one.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 19, 2013)

I'm actually squirting the goat milk into her mouth and then she swallows it. She just will not latch on to the nipple. This makes feeding time last an hour. 

I'm going to stick her under my doe again later today. My poor Lucy may never speak to me again after I force this kid on her! Lucy's baby is 11 weeks old and still going in for a drink now and then. She was a single, and she's huge.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 19, 2013)

I hope you won't be offended by my saying this but the kid is probably getting confused with all of the nipples and then dam nursing.  It might be best if you choose a method and stick with it for a few weeks to get her established on one.


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## RemudaOne (Jan 19, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> I hope you won't be offended by my saying this but the kid is probably getting confused with all of the nipples and then dam nursing.  It might be best if you choose a method and stick with it for a few weeks to get her established on one.


X2. 
It seems that the baby is going to learn that if it holds out long enough, it will get the doe again. It may work out better if it gets no other nipple than the one on the bottle.


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 19, 2013)

RemudaOne said:
			
		

> Pearce Pastures said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


X3  Goats are smart. She knows if she doesn't suck you're either gonna tube feed her or stick her on an udder. Either way she's getting what she wants if she holds out.


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## Squirrelgirl88 (Jan 19, 2013)

FINALLY - I got her to take a bottle! She took 1.5 oz and then 2 hours later took 2 oz. 



I refused to tube her. She finally got hungry enough.

Thanks to all that posted. The moral support and advice paid off!


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## RemudaOne (Jan 19, 2013)

Yahoooooooo!!!!!!!! Congratulations and good job!!!!!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 19, 2013)




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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 19, 2013)

*Yay!!! Congrats! Hope she does well! *


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 20, 2013)

Awesome!!!!!!!!


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