# Please advise, correct, and point out my stupid newbie mistakes!



## kayala (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm moving into a new house soon (my very own, not rented) and am going to start raising rabbits and chickens - the chickens exclusively for eggs, and the rabbits will be bred for meat for me, significant other, and our two dogs.

I've never owned let alone raised rabbits before and I've done lots of research, but what I really need is to put together a top-down consider-absolutely-everything plan for these rabbits.

I live in Anchorage, Alaska. This summer, a relatively hot one, has topped out at 80 degrees. Winters vary but in our area I don't expect it to get worse than -5 for an extended period of time. Normally it'll probably be around 5-20 degrees during the winter. I understand rabbits are well suited to these temperatures.

Our new house has a big deck with lots of space underneath. I was thinking about putting the rabbit cages here, to take advantage of the ground that's already grass-free and maybe start vermiculture underneath the cages, and to provide plenty of shelter. Since the winter days can be pretty devoid of sunlight, I'd set up a light (which kind would be best?) to run during "normal" daylight hours.

It appears that it's best to give each rabbit an individual cage; what do I do when the does start giving birth and suddenly I have 8 more rabbits on hand? They'll be slaughtered around 8-10 weeks when they're fully grown, but up until that point what should the babies' housing arrangements be?

How big of a cage should I provide each rabbit? Do you have any particular brands/premade cages that you especially like and could recommend?

In Anchorage our main predators will be raccoons and foxes, so aside from putting some sort of solid shelter directly on top of the boxes when unsupervised, what can I do to protect them?

We have a roughly 50'x50' yard where the rabbits could be let free to romp and play for a portion of the day (supervised, definitely not with the dogs, maybe with the chickens if they get along). So say I have 5 rabbits at the absolute maximum (2 bucks and 3 does, not counting the babies), will my lawn survive intact?

My dogs are sled dogs - Siberian husky and Samoyed - so I will attempt to socialize them with the rabbits but definitely will not trust them unsupervised.

Are there any other things I should know as an absolute ignorant beginner? I really don't want to screw this up and wind up killing the poor rabbits through neglect.


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## kayala (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, one thing i forgot to mention - another possibility would be combining the rabbit hutches and chicken coop (with the animals separated of course). The chicken coop is going against the side of the backyard shed, which means it'll be against a south-facing wall. Any thoughts on or experience with this setup?


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## Ms. Research (Jul 17, 2011)

Congratulations on your new home!   It must be exciting and a bit scary at the same time.  When I started researching about rabbits, my Better Half came upon this book.  I was looking into showing and breeding, but this was something I never even thought of..raising for food.


"Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits, by Bob Bennet.  It talks a lot about raising rabbits for meat.   It talks about the different breeds, how to start your rabbitry, cages, feed, etc, even down to recipes.  

Wishing you luck in your new venture.


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## manybirds (Jul 17, 2011)

Individual caging is best. I would recomend standerd rex, satins or califonians for breed, they should have access to roughfage we feed hay. rabbits are pretty simple animals. good luck. any direct questions just ask!


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## Beekissed (Jul 17, 2011)

kayala said:
			
		

> I'm moving into a new house soon (my very own, not rented) and am going to start raising rabbits and chickens - the chickens exclusively for eggs, and the rabbits will be bred for meat for me, significant other, and our two dogs.
> 
> I've never owned let alone raised rabbits before and I've done lots of research, but what I really need is to put together a top-down consider-absolutely-everything plan for these rabbits.
> 
> ...


You might want to find someone in the area that is already doing this and find what breeds fare best in your climate, where they buy their feeds, how they keep their water from freezing, how they predator-proof their rabbitry, where and what kind of hay is available in the area.  Do you have a market for selling any excess rabbits, will you use them primarily for your family or dogs, will you be able to stand to kill them when it is time?   All these questions need good answers before you invest time and money in setting up your rabbitry.

Keeping rabbits over chickens is a great idea and one can also do their vermiforming right in the same place.  The rabbits and chickens can provide each other extra heat in the winter and their manure makes a good mix in the compost pile~rabbits are cool manures and chickens are hot.  The chickens can eat any dropped rabbit feed as well, as well as keeping the poop mixed into the deep litter, if needed.  

Good luck and keep a journal of your progress so others can learn!  Keep us posted!


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## hoodat (Jul 17, 2011)

You will also need a grow out cage for the young from weaning till slaughter. If all the rabbits in the cage are from the same litter they will normally get along well.  A good idea for grow out cages is to use wire cages with a door that will close on the front and an open door on the side. That makes them modular so you can put two cages together to expand the space. I have two 2 feet by 4 feet cages I use for the purpose. All the books say I need more space for 10 young but they are usually piled up in one corner of the cage anyway. I don't know how they can pile up four high without squishing the ones on the bottom but they seem to like doing it that way. 
Don't make the usual newby mistake of getting too many rabbits in the beginning. I would advise getting just one good buck and doe. The buck will be idle most of the time that way but you get a chance to learn how to take care of them without getting overwhelmed. My doe provides me with 10 young every month and a half. I could push up the schedule but she's a good mama and I don't want to wear her out. You can get more does later (or save the best does from your litters) if you decide you need more meat. Inbreeding doesn't mess up a rabbits genetics like it does some animals so you can breed a saved doe back to the father with no harm.


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## Ms. Research (Jul 17, 2011)

hoodat said:
			
		

> You will also need a grow out cage for the young from weaning till slaughter. If all the rabbits in the cage are from the same litter they will normally get along well.  A good idea for grow out cages is to use wire cages with a door that will close on the front and an open door on the side. That makes them modular so you can put two cages together to expand the space. I have two 2 feet by 4 feet cages I use for the purpose. All the books say I need more space for 10 young but they are usually piled up in one corner of the cage anyway. I don't know how they can pile up four high without squishing the ones on the bottom but they seem to like doing it that way.
> Don't make the usual newby mistake of getting too many rabbits in the beginning. I would advise getting just one good buck and doe. The buck will be idle most of the time that way but you get a chance to learn how to take care of them without getting overwhelmed. My doe provides me with 10 young every month and a half. I could push up the schedule but she's a good mama and I don't want to wear her out. You can get more does later (or save the best does from your litters) if you decide you need more meat. Inbreeding doesn't mess up a rabbits genetics like it does some animals so you can breed a saved doe back to the father with no harm.


Is this a good way to start breeding non-meat breeds?  I read too about "more" space and I definitely seen how the kits pile so your experience is valuable to a newbie.  Sorry if I hijacked the thread because it was about starting a "meat" rabbitry but it's very interesting stuff and IMHO invaluable to help a newbie starting out.


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## terri9630 (Jul 19, 2011)

I give my does large cages and when it is time to wean I take the doe out and leave the kits in.   Once the kits are gone I put the doe back in her large cage.  I like my rabbits to be able to stretch out.  I also give them a box to sit on/hide in.  They like their "holes" to hide in during bad weather or when hawks are around.


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## dewey (Jul 19, 2011)

Congrats on your house -- how exciting!  My lifelong best friend was raised in Anchorage.  Yep, fire & ice (I'm in AZ, lol).

You can also time your breedings so that the young stay in the same cage with the doe until processing them at 8 weeks, and so the doe has a new litter 2 weeks later.  Not only does this generally lessen stress on all, it saves feed, increases kit body weight faster, lessens kit mortality rates, and also saves on having to have all those extra grow out cages, although extra cages are always needed for one reason or another.  (Typically, twice as many cages per does is a rule of thumb if you're setting up for grow out cages.)  You can also check out ARBA for suggested cage sizes.  Buck cages can be smaller than doe/litter cages.  Select your cage design and size carefully since it's easier to learn from other's mistakes than our own, lol.

Quality NZ's would be (and is) my breed of choice if you're planning to butcher a decent size rabbit at 8 weeks old.  Lots of other commercial breeds are good for meat, too, although they may by slower to reach weight (meaning more cost, more cages, more work, more everything, lol).  

If you can enclose the under deck area (like a mini barn) leaving space for good air flow and lighting, it would be safest against predators and could possibly be heated to take the edge off if temps dropped too low.  That being said, I think chickens in an enclosed area with rabbits would not be my choice since it could create health issues for the rabbits eventually....chicken dander and sensitive rabbit systems just do not mix well, etc.  I know a lot of people do ok otherwise when they have just a few rabbits and chickens, but rabbits are the most efficient protein producers for me so mine get #1 priority over other livestock kept for protein production.  Plus, stepping in chicken poo or having to try to dodge it when setting a bun nestbox down is not high on my list, either.  

I think 3-5 does and a couple of bucks (always good to have at least one back up buck ) is a good number to start out with if someone is good at keeping records and following up with details.  A minimum of 2-3 does bred at the same time can really help if any kits need to be farmed out to other does.

Rabbits are simple to care for when following the basics for their needs.  Nothing replaces time and experience, though, and we all started new at some point and always keep learning no matter how long we've raised rabbits.  With the research you've been doing and your desire to do things right, I'm sure you'll do great!


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## hoodat (Jul 19, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

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As far as breeding goes the same rules apply to meat and show rabbits (except for the genetics) but if you are gong to show you have to be very meticuous about cleanliness of your cages, not just for health but you don't want a show bunny to stain their fur or get a dung ball under the tail just before a show. Other members can tell you more than I can about that. I don't enter any shows.


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## terri9630 (Jul 19, 2011)

dewey said:
			
		

> Congrats on your house -- how exciting!  My lifelong best friend was raised in Anchorage.  Yep, fire & ice (I'm in AZ, lol).
> 
> You can also time your breedings so that the young stay in the same cage with the doe until processing them at 8 weeks, and so the doe has a new litter 2 weeks later.  Not only does this generally lessen stress on all, it saves feed, increases kit body weight faster, lessens kit mortality rates, and also saves on having to have all those extra grow out cages, although extra cages are always needed for one reason or another.  (Typically, twice as many cages per does is a rule of thumb if you're setting up for grow out cages.)  You can also check out ARBA for suggested cage sizes.  Buck cages can be smaller than doe/litter cages.  Select your cage design and size carefully since it's easier to learn from other's mistakes than our own, lol.
> 
> ...


Do you NZW's?  Ever sell any does?  I searched everywhere around here for NZW's and no one has them.


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## dewey (Jul 20, 2011)

terri9630 said:
			
		

> Do you NZW's?  Ever sell any does?  I searched everywhere around here for NZW's and no one has them.


Yes, I have very nice pedigree NZW's which are difficult to come by around here.  Most NZ's offered for sale around here are a mix of who knows what breeds, sold to unsuspecting folks as pure NZW's.  I also raise NZW X cals.  I'm ARBA but haven't advertised on sites since it's been all I can do to keep up with our own demands for meat.  I have family that goes back and forth every few month to TX if your in need of NZW's.


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## Ms. Research (Jul 20, 2011)

hoodat said:
			
		

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Thanks for your honest reply.  Right now I clean my bunny crate every day.  I only have TWO right now so it's very easy plus I get to bond with them.  As my rabbitry grows I want to make sure I continue the way I started.  Every day and bonding.  So my rabbitry will probably not be as big as some.  And don't misunderstand me, I know as I grow bigger I will find other ways to do what I am doing from the beginning.  It just takes time to get into a routine and I will not rush to breed until I have full control of cleaniness for all my bunnies.  Slow and steady.  Best advise.


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## terri9630 (Jul 20, 2011)

dewey said:
			
		

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Now I find someone with NZW's!  I searched for ages.  I just got a doe out of TX but after our fair in Sept I'll have some empty cages and will be looking another doe.  I'll have to book mark this page so I don't forget who has them.


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## hoodat (Jul 21, 2011)

As to your question about chickens and rabbits together; yes it can be done. The chickens should be low and the rabbit cages above them, not the other way round. The chickens will clean up any spilled food and keep the insects down. Chickens being what they are they will try to fly to the top of the rabbit cages and that is something you can't allow. Top your cages with something like hardboard or corugated roofing at a steep slant so if the chickens fly up they will slide right back off.


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## dewey (Jul 21, 2011)

terri9630 said:
			
		

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Isn't that just the way it always seems to be! LOL
I waited months for mine, too.


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## Citylife (Aug 14, 2011)

My set-up started out about 16 months ago with a trio of FW's and a 4x10 once sided shed with hanging cages.  Now it has expanded to 9 cages versa's 4 and is 26 feet long now.  I have found this is a a breeze to keep clean.  I have 5 chickens that have full run of the 12x45 foot designated area for chickens and rabbits.  Chickens eat up everything the rabbits throw out.  They also till the manure often.  There is a trench dug out under the cages so I only have to clean the trench out about 3 times a year.  It is working wonderfully.  I now have 2 bucks, 4 does, a group of 17 I will be processing soon.  12 just processed and in the freezer and 2 more litters due tomorrow.  I love it!  My set up has turned out to be great.  
Where I live we have cold, humid winters, the rabbits do fine.  We had 3 weeks of over 95 and it was a full time job keeping them alive in that.  Heat index was up around 115 way to many times.  This is when ice bottles comes in very handy.  They made it!!!!!!!!!!!!  I am happy!!!!!







In winter time I can pull tarps down around it and make a tent so I have room to walk through to the chickens house on the other side of the rabbits.
Hope this gives you some ideas


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## Ms. Research (Aug 14, 2011)

Citylife said:
			
		

> My set-up started out about 16 months ago with a trio of FW's and a 4x10 once sided shed with hanging cages.  Now it has expanded to 9 cages versa's 4 and is 26 feet long now.  I have found this is a a breeze to keep clean.  I have 5 chickens that have full run of the 12x45 foot designated area for chickens and rabbits.  Chickens eat up everything the rabbits throw out.  They also till the manure often.  There is a trench dug out under the cages so I only have to clean the trench out about 3 times a year.  It is working wonderfully.  I now have 2 bucks, 4 does, a group of 17 I will be processing soon.  12 just processed and in the freezer and 2 more litters due tomorrow.  I love it!  My set up has turned out to be great.
> Where I live we have cold, humid winters, the rabbits do fine.  We had 3 weeks of over 95 and it was a full time job keeping them alive in that.  Heat index was up around 115 way to many times.  This is when ice bottles comes in very handy.  They made it!!!!!!!!!!!!  I am happy!!!!!
> 
> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/1521_rcshed7cgs.jpg
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Thanks for posting.  It's a benefit IMHO for all those who start out to see and read of others who have their rabbitry up and running successfully.  Thanks.


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## Citylife (Aug 14, 2011)

Ms. Research, being off the grid in the city has given us challenges and we have spent stupid! money on many things.  But, boy I can sure tell you the things I would do differently.  LOL   We are on  a 1/2 acre city lot and have been eating out of our yard this summer.  It has been very rewarding.  I would say the chickens get to enjoy the backyard more then anyone.  They free roam 2-7 hours a day depending on time of year and what we are doing.  They love it!  " Spoiled Chickens"


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