# What is the point in hair sheep - Now what wool/meat breed is best.



## PendergrassRanch (Jan 2, 2013)

Editing this since we are on a different topic! 

I feed my dogs raw and I need a breed that produces high meat content as well as a good solid wool coat for me to use.


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## D1 (Jan 2, 2013)

meat! would be the only reason I can think of.  I would love to have sheep just for the meat aspect without having to worry about the shearing aspect as I wouldnt/dont have a market for wool in my area.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 2, 2013)

D1 said:
			
		

> meat! would be the only reason I can think of.  I would love to have sheep just for the meat aspect without having to worry about the shearing aspect as I wouldnt/dont have a market for wool in my area.


Okay, thats what I thought.  

I don't mind shearing.  I keep hearing that sheep are stupid.  As long as they stay where they are suppose to be, I don't care about their brains.


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## marlowmanor (Jan 2, 2013)

I think the "sheep are dumb" statement falls in the same category of "goats eat everything" including tin cans, paper, and all that crap.

Lot of the sheep people on here have proven their sheep are pretty smart. And anyone with goats will tell you they can be picky.


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## bonbean01 (Jan 2, 2013)

X2 Marlow


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## marlowmanor (Jan 2, 2013)

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> X2 Marlow


I have learned a few things from reading all the posts on BYH not just certain categories.  Never had sheep myself personally but after seeing all the sheep on BYH and reading about them I may be more inclined to consider getting one when we have more land. Or at least letting the boys use sheep for 4H if they ever get into it.


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## greybeard (Jan 2, 2013)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

> Please excuse my ignorance.  I'm not sure how to pose this question with out sounding like an idiot.
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> I guess I will explain my case.
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That's kind of like asking "If you aren't going to milk one, what's the point of having a cow?" If you like to eat lamb for dinner, you won't be raising a goat and call the meal the same thing as lamb. They are nothing alike once they are on the end of your fork.
Lamb sells for a lot higher price around here than any goat meat, and lamb is far more acceptable on a restaurant plate than goat to most non-farm people in the US. (I prefer cabrito myself tho)

People (at least in the southwest) that want meat production from sheep use hair sheep for all the obvious reasons.
1. Easier to maintain than wool sheep breeds while producing just as good if not better meat than wool varieties.
2. You don't need to dock.
3. No shearing needed--the hair sheds for winter.
4. According to several studies, they are more parasite resistant than wool sheep. 
5. Goats are notorious for getting out of their pastures--often an un-earned reputation, but there it is. Sheep are considered more docile and easier to handle, but I've seen some pretty mean sheep too--both hair and wool breeds when I lived out in West Texas. YRMV.
6. People that raise sheep for weed and grass control choose non wool breeds or species--again because they don't have to shear or dock, while getting all the attributes of any other sheep type. 
7. Usually easier to handle because they see less human caused stress than wool bearing sheep.
8. Variety of colorations are an attraction to many hobbyist and 4H kids.


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## boykin2010 (Jan 2, 2013)

Sheep are not dumb by any means. At least, not my Katahdins. They are extremely smart and know a lot more than we give them credit for. 

I like the hair sheep because they are extremely parasite resistant, easy to raise, great mothers, and I do not have to shear them. Wool is basically worthless in my area, so it would have not been worth my time to buy wooled breeds. 

All of my Katahdins have excellent temperaments and taste great too. We butcher 2-3 lambs every year for ourself. 

There is a HUGE market for hair sheep lambs in just about all parts of the country. Most Katahdin breeders sell out a year in advance and registered stock are increasing and increasing in price. 

I have also found that sheep respect fencing a lot more than other animals. My sheep have never gotten out and all I have is 5 strand electric polywire.  Never had a problem.


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## boykin2010 (Jan 2, 2013)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

> Please excuse my ignorance.  I'm not sure how to pose this question with out sounding like an idiot.
> 
> I guess I will explain my case.
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Oh, and I also know a lady who raw feeds her dogs. She uses the mutton (meat of sheep that are older in age) to feed her dogs. They love it, and she enjoys feeding it to them. It is very healthy for the dogs.


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## finns&fjords (Jan 2, 2013)

I've come to realize that it's not that sheep are stupid-cuz they're not. Sheep are a prey animal and behave exactly like any other animal that's basically on the bottom of the food chain. To a sheep, every incident is seen as a life or death situation and their only response is FLEE  Regardless of this silly (to us) behavior, I still love my sheep!
And, if shearing isn't an issue, wouldn't a common meat breed like Suffolk or commercial cross, produce more pounds of meat than the hair breeds? I do agree that both hair and wool types have their own advantages.


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## Royd Wood (Jan 2, 2013)

finns&fjords said:
			
		

> I do agree that both hair and wool types have their own advantages.


x2
and cant live without my wooly Romneys but catch myself looking at blackbelly sheep on here


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## finns&fjords (Jan 2, 2013)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

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Haha I know exactly what you mean. I love my Finns but the Dorpers sure pique my curiosity!


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 2, 2013)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

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*

I love blackbellies, I want some soooo bad! They are SOOO beautiful! *


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 3, 2013)

If your looking for woolly hides but not sheep, why not get angora goats, or another hair breed goat?

That way you can get hair, meat, skin and milk if you wanted. 

I have only had one sheep. I wont be raising another. They are the cutest babies though!


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## PotterWatch (Jan 3, 2013)

If you want lamb to eat and sheepskins to use, I would recommend Dorpers. According to sheepinfo.com, the "Dorper has a thick skin which is highly prized and protects the sheep under harsh climatic conditions. It is the most sought after sheepskin in the world."


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## SheepGirl (Jan 3, 2013)

I'm not sure...I think Merino would be the most desired sheepskin due to their fine wool. And I went to IKEA not too long ago and the only sheepskins there were Merino.

But hair sheep, their main purpose is meat, since they have no wool. Some hair sheep are milked, some are crossed onto wool breeds to get the shedding gene in the mix. That said, I think only the Dorper or Katahdin could be used as a terminal sire because they are the meatiest hair breeds, even though the Katahdin is more of a maternal (ewe) breed. All the other hair breeds (Blackbellies, St Croix, etc) are IMO too light muscled to be used as a high quality meat animal, but they are prolific, parasite tolerant, etc, which is great to have as your ewe flock, and you can then cross them onto either a Kat or Dorper for market lambs.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

pridegoethb4thefall said:
			
		

> If your looking for woolly hides but not sheep, why not get angora goats, or another hair breed goat?
> 
> That way you can get hair, meat, skin and milk if you wanted.
> 
> I have only had one sheep. I wont be raising another. They are the cutest babies though!


I have an angora, its just not the same as sheepskin at all.  


Thank you SO MUCH For all the wonderful information everyone! I love this forum


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

So knowing what you all know...what would be the sheep for me? I want a good sheepskin to use, and a meaty animal to slaughter for the dogs.  Ugh I wish I had more room  or I would go with goats AND sheep.  I just can't justify two intact males.


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## SheepGirl (Jan 3, 2013)

If you want a good sheepskin, I think you should get a flock of either finewool or longwool ewes (maybe Rambouillet, Romeny, Leicester Longwool, Cotwsold, etc) and cross them onto a terminal sire, like any blackface breed, a Texel, Montadale, Southdown, or Cheviot. That way you have your ewes for their wool/maternal abilities and then when you cross them onto a terminal sire, you have market lambs with an acceptable fleece so you can have pretty & soft sheepskins. Try to stay away from 'pure' medium wool breeds/crosses for sheepskins as they won't be as soft or lustrous if you were to choose a fine or long wool breed.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> If you want a good sheepskin, I think you should get a flock of either finewool or longwool ewes (maybe Rambouillet, Romeny, Leicester Longwool, Cotwsold, etc) and cross them onto a terminal sire, like any blackface breed, a Texel, Montadale, Southdown, or Cheviot. That way you have your ewes for their wool/maternal abilities and then when you cross them onto a terminal sire, you have market lambs with an acceptable fleece so you can have pretty & soft sheepskins. Try to stay away from 'pure' medium wool breeds/crosses for sheepskins as they won't be as soft or lustrous if you were to choose a fine or long wool breed.


Thanks! I can't say I've ever seen or heard of those breeds around here but I will put them on my list and keep my eyes peeled 

ETA - I'm pretty sure where my sister boards her horse (when hes not at my house) then have black face sheep.  They are really nice people I bet I could get a ram from them.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

What about Suffolk? Those seem to be really popular around here.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

OH sweet, I just found a source for Romney sheep locally.


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## SheepGirl (Jan 3, 2013)

Those are a medium wool breed, mainly used as a terminal sire. They are the most popular breed in the U.S. due to their fast growth rates. But they are HUGE sheep. IF you were to use them for sheepskins, the wool would be no longer than 3" (probably more like 1-2" if you use skins from lambs) and it would feel like a carpet. (That's how many people described the wool on my sheep when I take them to fairs, and they have medium wool like a Suffolk.) And the skins would be big, too.

eta, here's a picture from Donner Trail Ranch of a EWE. I would love to have a big sheep like this just for fun lol


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

Holy giant sheep batman! 

If I were to get that as a sire, would I be okay crossing them on Romneys?


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## SheepGirl (Jan 3, 2013)

I would think so, yes.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> I would think so, yes.


Awesome, I have a lot to consider but I do have a few months. Thanks for your help!


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## RemudaOne (Jan 3, 2013)

"The Dorper skin is the most sought after sheepskin in the world and is marketed under the name of Cape Glovers. The skin comprises a high percentage of the income (20%) of the total carcass value."

You can find more information here too:

http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/sheep/dorper/

And here:

http://www.dorper.org/

Not sure where you live but the dorpers were developed to thrive in harsh, arid climates and maintain weight on poor pasture. Not sure how they would do if you live somewhere soggy. 

Good luck on your decision .


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

RemudaOne said:
			
		

> "The Dorper skin is the most sought after sheepskin in the world and is marketed under the name of Cape Glovers. The skin comprises a high percentage of the income (20%) of the total carcass value."
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> You can find more information here too:
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I live in Northern California at about 1100 elevation.  Its not especially soggy.

That is a hair breed right?


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## SheepGirl (Jan 3, 2013)

RemudaOne said:
			
		

> "The Dorper skin is the most sought after sheepskin in the world and is marketed *under the name of Cape Glovers*. The skin comprises a high percentage of the income (20%) of the total carcass value."
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lol I've never heard of Cape Glovers  But to me I guess it would be more like a cowskin, since it's a hair breed. When I think of sheepskin, I think of a soft, luxurious throw.

But it depends on what type of skins the OP wants to produce, I guess.


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## RemudaOne (Jan 3, 2013)

Pendergrass, yes it's a hair breed. Both of those websites have some nice pictures. 

Sheepgirl, from what I understand Cape Glovers is located in South Africa where the breed originated. Since I've never seen or touched a finished Dorper sheep skin I couldn't speak to its texture. The OP was asking about breeds, I was simply stating what I have read and supplying websites where Pendergrass might be able to learn more about the Dorpers.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

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I want rugs and stuff to make slippers and boots out of  Just as a side project, gifts and things.


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## boykin2010 (Jan 3, 2013)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

> What about Suffolk? Those seem to be really popular around here.


IMHO, the suffolk are a little overrated. Sure they are fast growing sheep, but 99.9% of the time, they are fed a huge grain based diet, and are very parasite susceptible.  I am of the opinion that sheep should be kept as natural as possible. Only feeding grain when absolutely necessary (during the period when ewes are lactating, or when there is no grass.)  

Most Katahdin breeders try to breed for parasite resistance and growth on pasture. I understand not every breeder aims for this goal. But, since many people show mainly suffolk they are bred as "show" sheep. They are bred to look good on the outside, and it doesn't matter what is inside. Sometimes these show sheep have health problems, but it doesnt matter because the rams are usually slaughtered by a year anyway... 

Take a show sufffolk and cut back all grain and just put on good pasture. I will just about guarantee that the hair sheep or other breeds for that matter will outgrow them on a grass based diet. 

Just my 2-cents


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## boykin2010 (Jan 3, 2013)

Here is a list of Katahdin breeders in your state:  http://www.countrylovin.com/KHSI/map/ca.html
If you are interested in them at all. 

I have had dorpers, barbados, and Katahdins.  The katahdins are my favorite by far. One of my favorite things about them is you will never know what color to expect! You can breed any colors together and get anything. For example a white x white may produce spots or even black lambs. black and white may produce red spotted.  You just never know! 


Here is a list of Dorper breeders in your state: http://www.nebraskasheep.com/directory/Breeds/Dorper/
There are a good many registered Dorper breeders in CA. 

I like the dorpers too. Don't get me wrong.  They are my 2nd favorite hair sheep breed probably!


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## Bossroo (Jan 3, 2013)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

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The hair breeds ( such as the Dorper )   do have wool during the late summer/ fall / winter then shed it in the spring.  Since you are in N Cal.  ... you can google for a Dorper ranch in the mountains of S Oregon...  they have several hundred ewes.  I have seen a very nice Dorper flock of 30  in S. Wash. too.


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## boykin2010 (Jan 3, 2013)

Bossroo said:
			
		

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Not all hair sheep such as dorper grow wool coats in the winter. It depends on the individual sheep. They coat classes for hair sheep.   A is no wool just hair all year long. B has wool in the winter but hair the rest of year. C is wool pretty much all year or some short wooly patches. C is undesirable for all hair sheep. I believe these classes are correct, I may be a little off. I like for my Katahdins either to have short hair all year long or grow a short,  short furry coat in the winter. OF course, I live in the extreme south so people in the north may disagree and want their sheep to have a different coat.


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 3, 2013)

I don't know which breeds are hair or wool so I'm confused.  I would like a sheep that I can process at any point in time and it will have a full coat to use.  Doesn't sound like the hair sheep that may or may not have wool during some months are what I'm looking for.


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## RemudaOne (Jan 3, 2013)

You're right.... If you want to keep the wool on the sheepskin, you'll have to go with a wool breed as with hair sheep, the covering is very much dependent upon the individual and it will contain some amount of hair which I would think would be undesirable for what you are wanting to do. I understood that you were only interested in the skin and not the covering . Good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide on


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## Lamancha Acres 123 (Jan 3, 2013)

RemudaOne said:
			
		

> You're right.... If you want to keep the wool on the sheepskin, you'll have to go with a wool breed as with hair sheep, the covering is very much dependent upon the individual and it will contain some amount of hair which I would think would be undesirable for what you are wanting to do. I understood that you were only interested in the skin and not the covering . Good luck and I'm looking forward to seeing what you decide on


Good luck on your pick


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## finns&fjords (Jan 3, 2013)

PendergrassRanch said:
			
		

> Holy giant sheep batman!
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> If I were to get that as a sire, would I be okay crossing them on Romneys?


I cross my Suffolk ram on 1/2 Romney, 1/4 Dorset, 1/4 Cheviot ewes. First year, both had big singles w/o any problems. They grew FAST!!


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## PendergrassRanch (Jan 4, 2013)

Sorry, I meant sheepskin as in the whole thing with wool for rugs.

Thanks for the help


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## BrownSheep (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm a little late to the party but I would say Suffolk would be fine for you. We've never fed a huge grain based diet . Just a bit a couple weeks before butchering. My only concern would be their wool quality as it is pretty corse. I've never made a rug though so that may not matter for that.


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## goodolboy (Jan 11, 2013)

If your late, I'm real late. But my two cents. Over the years I've owned alot of differant breeds. We now have settled on the Katahdins. All breeds have their place. Wool breed are definatly bigger and grow faster, but we found they don't do as well on a grass and hay deit. Fly strike was also a problem withthe wool when docking the tail. They also seem to have more hoof problems, not as parisite resistant, and not as good mothering skills as the hair sheep. All of that being said, sheep skin I've never delt with, if you are looking for a fleece, than wool is where it's at. The hair sheep do not have a usable fleece(unless your into wigs, Ha).


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## Shelly May (Jan 11, 2013)

with the katahdins I can change my wig colors every week, HAHA, and I don't need to go to Walmart dye section.


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## promiseacres (Jan 11, 2013)

Love my hair sheep so very pretty and the horns are so unique (no one knows what they are...LOL) and I have no desire to deal with fleece...


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## goodolboy (Jan 11, 2013)

AMEN


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## Royd Wood (Jan 11, 2013)

goodolboy said:
			
		

> All breeds have their place. Wool breed are definatly bigger and grow faster, but we found they don't do as well on a grass and hay deit. Fly strike was also a problem with the wool when docking the tail. They also seem to have more hoof problems, not as parisite resistant, and not as good mothering skills as the hair sheep. .


So you didn't have Romneys then Goodolboy - Roms dont get foot rot, very very resistant to worms, are wonderful mothers (usually twins) My purebred Romney flock are strictly grass and hay fed. The downside points you make are correct though with alot of wool sheep out there
I have never had a hair breed and finding it interesting reading about them on here and those Blackbellies - I really like the look of them


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## goodolboy (Jan 11, 2013)

Romneys may be the trick. But which ever breed, buy the best. Visit farms, and look at the sellers sheep. You'll know real quick if you want their problems on your farm.


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## Royd Wood (Jan 11, 2013)

goodolboy said:
			
		

> Romneys may be the trick. But which ever breed, buy the best. Visit farms, and look at the sellers sheep. You'll know real quick if you want their problems on your farm.


So True


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## finns&fjords (Jan 12, 2013)

Royd Wood said:
			
		

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X3!!  I learned this the hard way, and my own ignorance at the time also made me gullible. Struggled with hoof rot and had "lamb" that wasn't....mutton it was  
My flock now was attained thru top breeders with proven stock. Money well spent!!


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