# Cross breeding Pygmys?



## lemongrass (Apr 2, 2011)

I bought 3 Pygmy does for milk/meat.  I admit, mostly for milk (yes I know they're not a milk goat), but I also wanted the offspring as meat.

I want them to kid without much issue (who doesn't?) but I'm having a heck of a time finding a pygmy buck in my area.  I don't want to buy one, I just want one for stud.  There seems to be a lot of Nigerian Dwarf, though.

What is everyone's thoughts on breeding something else to a Pygmy?  My primary concern is how small the does are.  I'm going to let mine fill out as much as possible before breeding (until they're at least a year old), but I'm still concerned.  I know lots of people have Nigerian/Pygmy crosses... but I know that doesn't necessarily mean its safe.

Does anyone have experience breeding Pygmies with other breeds (not just Nigerian)?


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## elevan (Apr 2, 2011)

Crossing Pygmies to Nigerians is perfectly safe.

When crossing to a larger breed you want to use a pygmy buck and a large breed doe.

You should never try to cross a large breed buck to a pygmy doe or you may kill your doe in the process.

I am a big proponent for using the pygmy for milk  

Here's a good thread regarding milking them:
http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=9206


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## lemongrass (Apr 2, 2011)

Thank you   I know I said I would not buy BUT I found a buckling closeby for sale, 8-9 weeks old, with a pygmy sire and a Nigerian/boer doe.  They said the sire was 17" and the doe 21".  From the pictures I cannot tell how tall he is at 8-9 weeks, but he is rather stocky looking to me.  He is only 1/4 boer with the rest of his line from small breeds.  I know there is the risk he may throw large kids but, would the risk be minimal considering the majority of small breed genetics?

I just measured my goats and at 5-6 months (unsure of exact age) they are about 11 inches at the withers.  I will not be breeding them until at least 12 months, and I will probably just breed one first to see what kind of kids he throws (and if there are any complications) before I potentially compromise my whole herd.

Good idea?  Bad?  Should I stay away completely from large goat breeds, even if its only a 1/4 in a small buck?

The ad:  http://easternshore.craigslist.org/grd/2287717505.html

Still waiting on a call back, so this is not even close to a definite thing.

Edit to add:  I am not showing so I'm not concerned about registration or all that.  I just need the girls to birth for the milk and I need to kids for the meat.  I don't plan on breeding the offspring unless they actually come out okay...  I am well aware I do not have even close to "ideal" pygmy goats.


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## PattySh (Apr 2, 2011)

Not sure I'd use a buck with Nubian/Boer blood on a pygmy, your babies might be too big for them to deliver. Even tho parents were small grandparent obviously was not. Having said that I will say that several years we had a pretty big angora buck escape one nite and breed several of our pygmies. The resulting pygoras (didn't know they were called that then!) were huge kids for the mothers to deliver but luckily all delivered well. The kids tho really had to bend down to nurse quickly tho lol. One the reverse, we have a very small alpine that has had the vet out 2 yrs running to deliver her kid(s). I bred her to a buck her size (alpine/togg). Next year she gets bred to a nigerian as her kids have been huge.


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## lemongrass (Apr 2, 2011)

PattySh said:
			
		

> Not sure I'd use a buck with Nubian/Boer blood on a pygmy, your babies might be too big for them to deliver. Even tho parents were small grandparent obviously was not. Having said that I will say that several years we had a pretty big angora buck escape one nite and breed several of our pygmies. The resulting pygoras (didn't know they were called that then!) were huge kids for the mothers to deliver but luckily all delivered well. The kids tho really had to bend down to nurse quickly tho lol. One the reverse, we have a very small alpine that has had the vet out 2 yrs running to deliver her kid(s). I bred her to a buck her size (alpine/togg). Next year she gets bred to a nigerian as her kids have been huge.


The buck I'm looking at has Pygmy/Nigerian dwarf/Boer blood, no Nubian.  Or do you mean, you wouldn't breed a Pygmy to anything with Nubian or Boer blood?

I agree, though, that if he was half Nubian/Boer with half Pygmy, that sounds too big to me.  But he's 3/4 small/dwarfed breed with 1/4 large breed, which is why I wonder if that 1/4 is enough to worry about.  If what you meant by your post is that yes, it is something to worry about, I apologize because I didn't quite understand.

Thanks!


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## PattySh (Apr 2, 2011)

LOL I must be tired, I read nigerian as nubian! If 1/4 you might be ok, although boer goats are big at birth.  Pygmy babies are very tiny at birth. Possibly someone with boer experience will chime in. Having had 3 vet deliveries for  Large stuck kids in the last two seasons I am on the side of caution.


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## lemongrass (Apr 2, 2011)

Thank you    I haven't gotten an answer from them anyway so he may even be sold already.  If I hear back I'm going to ask about how big he was at birth, and how big any brothers/sisters were, etc... I'm hoping that will shed some highlight.


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## elevan (Apr 2, 2011)

You might be ok...and then again he might throw big kids  

Pygmies are really good at being easy to kid but you wouldn't want to take a chance giving them a big buck maker, you know?...


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## elevan (Apr 2, 2011)

I just looked at the ad and using the cinder block wall behind him...I'd say he's definitely bigger than your typical pygmy at 8 weeks.

He has a "beefy-ness" that I would contribute to the boer blood...that 1/4 boer is definitely pushing through some.


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## TigerLilly (Apr 8, 2011)

I have a pygmy doe that was bred to my tiny ND buck. As a FF, she had one TINY doe--big as she got, I thought she'd have at least 2. She kidded before I woke up, but it was a great surprise!
I am now milking the doe & although it's a little awkward, the milk is great. I don't know about using something that small for meat, though. Is it really worth it? I'm not questioning your choice, I'm curious because I have been thinking about getting meat goats.


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## lemongrass (Apr 8, 2011)

TigerLilly - I am only really using them for meat because I wouldn't have anything else to do with the kids.  I may save some girls for milking  but that would be about it.  However, if I ever try to make money off of goat meat I would definitely reconsider my breed choice.  I chose Pygmy for the milk, because I read it had a high buttermilk content and was very delicious.  The meat part is more or less a side note.

My family raised Boer goats for a while.  They were super easy to care for and the herd grew FAST.  I loved them, but they had 33 acres (probably a total of 25 available for grazing) and I only have 7.5 (with maybe a total of 2-3 available for grazing).  I got the smaller goat to fit my smaller farm, so I wouldn't be in danger of over-grazing.  Then again a small herd of maybe like 5 Boer would probably be okay if I rotated.  Unfortunately I don't have the fencing up to rotate pasture, I only have one pasture available now and 3 little pygmy goats don't ruin it.  But don't get me wrong, boy do they eat a lot and fast!!


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## elevan (Apr 8, 2011)

Your pygmy wether kids will be around 70# at 8-9 months.  Smaller of course if you slaughter earlier.

Pygmies are actually classified as a meat breed.  That is what they were bred for in Africa.  Definitely not as much meat as your more commercial breeds but they are nothing to sneeze at.

I consider mine tri-purpose: meat, milk, pet.

I've tried the larger breeds and consider them most to be obnoxious (no offense to anyone)...though I would like to get a lamancha to breed to my ND buck for mini-manchas.


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## lemongrass (Apr 8, 2011)

Elevan, how do you whether your kids?  I was looking up something about a tool that pinches that... area... forgive me I don't remember all the technical terms... it essentially severs the testicles without making an incision.  Have you heard of it?  Any thoughts?


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## elevan (Apr 8, 2011)

lemongrass said:
			
		

> Elevan, how do you whether your kids?  I was looking up something about a tool that pinches that... area... forgive me I don't remember all the technical terms... it essentially severs the testicles without making an incision.  Have you heard of it?  Any thoughts?


I would NEVER personally use a burdizzo (sp?) ...the thing that pinches the vein in the testicle. It can fail and need to be redone.  And in my opinion causes more stress than is necessary.

I band.  You want to make sure that the kid is utd on CD&T (kids) or do a tetnus booster (if banding an older buck) prior to banding.  Do not castrate in any fashion before 8 weeks of age...the longer you can wait the better for the urethral development and lessens the chance of them getting UC later.  But if they are in with does you want to band at 8 weeks.


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## sunfisher (Apr 9, 2011)

I'm buying two doe pygmies from a lady that also bred her pygmy does to a nigerian dwarf buck..she showed me both when I went to pick mine out..I couldnt tell which was which and without her telling me what ones were pygmy and pygmy/nigerian..they all seemed to be the same size to me  then again I'm new to goats


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## elevan (Apr 9, 2011)

kissingrk said:
			
		

> I'm buying two doe pygmies from a lady that also bred her pygmy does to a nigerian dwarf buck..she showed me both when I went to pick mine out..I couldnt tell which was which and without her telling me what ones were pygmy and pygmy/nigerian..they all seemed to be the same size to me  then again I'm new to goats


Size is about the same form pygmies and NDs and is not what separates the 2 breeds.

NDs can be many colors.  Pygmies are specific colors (some would say boring).  Color doesn't make the goat though.

NDs are more of a streamlined "lanky" shape like a small version of a standard dairy breed.  Pygmies are "stockier" tending to look rounder than NDs with shorter looking legs.

NDs will have a much better udder / teats as they are a dairy breed.  A pygmies udder / teats can be good too depending on the doe (but this varies greatly).

Most people keep pygmies as pets only or weed eaters.  Getting a ND is usually for milk purposes.

Any goat can be used for meat and the amount you get depends on what age, breed, gender...


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