# Something I feel needs saying....



## Roll farms (Mar 5, 2011)

I did some rather eye-opening reading earlier, and discovered that 
there can be quite a bit of contempt and unkindness toward some 
folks who have a lot of experience and valuable advice to offer.

I've also read the excuses / justifications.  
No need to rehash it, or repeat any of it, PLEASE.  
That is NOT the intent of this post...again, I say, "Please".

But...*I think it might be a good idea to remember something...*

After years and years of owning and caring for goats, a successful goat keeper learns so much valuable information that you cannot read in books, and that your average vet cannot or will not tell you.

If they're kind enough to share that knowledge with someone who needs help, contempt is the last thing they should be treated with.

I don't always agree w/ what I read here, and when I feel I need to post a different opinion, I take the time to try and think of a polite way to say it, so that I don't offend / hurt feelings.  Or, if I can't figure out a way to do that, I will contact them via pm and try and work it out.

I would like to think I have helped at least a few people during my time posting here.  

What I read earlier though has me wondering, "Gee...if this is the way someone who's trying to help is going to be treated, especially when specifically asked...maybe I shouldn't bother...AND I DON'T WANT TO BE THAT WAY.

None of us get anything out of trying to help / offer advice.  
Our 'payment' is when we read, "My goat feels better."  
I do it out of a love of goats and because I was new once, too.... and needed help, and remember how scary it can be.  
I am sure other experienced goat keepers do this for the same reasons.

I would hate to think that this board could end up being full of newbies w/ no knowledge, and/or book learners who may have good intentions, but no practical, real world experience.  
(Hey, we all gotta start somewhere...But if you're having surgery, do you want an intern or an MD??)

I was taught, and believe...if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all....or if you must, say it in private.  
Also... that if you don't do / say something in the 1st place...you don't have to worry about apologizing for it later.
Finally...Don't say something about someone to other people, that you aren't willing to say to them.

I'm pretty sad and discouraged at the moment, but I want to extend a 
sincere "THANK YOU" to each and every person here who's ever offered support or advice to me, and tell you that I appreciate what you offer(ed) because I know where the intent came from...your hearts.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 5, 2011)

I agree 100%, there is always a kind way of saying that you don't agree with someone.

You have taught me quite a bit Roll, I value your experience and knowledge and I am SO thankful that you and the others in this forum and willing to share your knowledge with newbies like me.


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## elevan (Mar 5, 2011)

I have to say THANK YOU to you, since a lot of your posts have been very helpful to me.


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## jodief100 (Mar 5, 2011)

Good for you Kim.


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## emily (Mar 5, 2011)

I would also like to give a hearty "Thank You" to the experienced goat keepers out there!

I am a newbie to goats and I come here when I have questions about what to do. I'm so grateful that there are people with experience here that are willing to help out people like me.


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## GrowURown (Mar 5, 2011)

emily said:
			
		

> I would also like to give a hearty "Thank You" to the experienced goat keepers out there!
> 
> I am a newbie to goats and I come here when I have questions about what to do. I'm so grateful that there are people with experience here that are willing to help out people like me.


My family and I do too! I know in real life I can be a TOTAL Smart ___ (You know  ) The wife says so ALL the time! But I don't mean to be and I hope it NEVER comes across that way on here! I spend HOURS scouring this site for info now that we have the goats and even more hours worrying myself sick over them when I don't have this available!  

Without people like you, and the experience you come with, people like me would be lying awake at night not knowing what to do! Critters are CONFUSING and experience is something that not only comes with time but also through sharing what you have learned!  THANK YOU SO MUCH TO ALL OF YOU WHO CAN AND DO SHARE! I ain't got much to give, but if I ever do have any sense it's all yours! And until then, if I ever sound like a smart (you know what) let me know please  Nothing stops the wife from telling me so....ever....ever....nothing!


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## Theykeepmebusy (Mar 5, 2011)

I am very appreciative of everyone that has helped me, past and future, I don't know where I would be with my goats without you guys


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## freemotion (Mar 5, 2011)

If the helpful people withdraw, the rude ones win.  We all should offer more support (and examples of how to express ourselves with good manners) to anyone who is under attack.  Not stand by and say nothing.  Even just a PM that says "I appreciate you."  Better yet, publicly.


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## scrambledmess (Mar 5, 2011)

I have really enjoyed and learned a lot from seeing both sides of the coin here.  It is good to remember that though often opposite, it is still the same coin.  

I am very very grateful to you specifically Kim as you have helped me a lot.  Of course your name is attached to what I am raising, but I have no doubt after meeting you that you would have helped me just the same if I had picked up some lice ridden mutt goat off the side of the road and you didn't know me from Adam.  You are just that kind of person.  I am very grateful for it 

I hope those others on here who may see things different will also continue to post too.  Seeing different views and different ways to do things are what makes all of this great and really helps us newbies out.

Farming, goats, dogs, children, whatever, it doesn't matter the topic.  Views are going to be different.  How to do things are going to be different, because we are all different.  What we may have done the same over and over for years may all change in one day because something else changed and we need a different view.  

I hope everyone can see past that and stick around.  I may not post to much on here, but I assure you I read almost every thread.  

Thanks to everyone who has shared whatever little tidbit you have


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## PattySh (Mar 5, 2011)

I want to say I've been grateful for advice on this site. "Roll" I am so glad you gave me info about what to feed my kids when formula wasn't working.  I have alot of animals and consider myself medically inclined BUT there is limited goat info out there and what is is sometimes dated. Alot has changed since I had goats and the wealth of information and the willingness for people to share in the sadnesses, problems as well as the joys make this site super imformative. I've been offline last nite and today so I guess I missed some heated discussion but I'm sorry to hear you are sad.


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## TheSheepGirl (Mar 5, 2011)

I think it's more that some of those "experienced people" need to learn manners as well. 

I have run into very rude advice givers in my time here and it sucks for those of us seeking help. Experience is no excuse for crude remarks and abruptly made comments that make the person accepting help feel like crap for not knowing or for what they did. Please note that none of those people are you guys.


You have been most helpful to everyone here Roll. Don't feel under appriciated, because you certainly are appriciated very much!

Thank you as well to all the other helpful people on this thread who post ridiculeless and helpful advice.


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## adoptedbyachicken (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanks for starting this Rolls!  

If everyone would just remain respectful even if they don't agree and reread what they have typed before clicking *Submit* to check the tone it would be great.

For those reading one more thing, the bottom right of every post there is a clickable *Report* option that deals quite nicely with the rude posts.  Reacting to them only fans the flames.  Just saying.


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## helmstead (Mar 6, 2011)

I think I'm done.  

"Experienced".  "Expert".  Hmm.  I've seen those two words in quotes a lot the past day or so.  What a slap in the face that is.  Some of us, you guys, actually ARE.  Expert, ok...maybe glorified - but experienced - no doubt about it.

As for me, I spend my time on this board hoping to HELP someone.  There are a handful of people willing to help me when I got started and I feel the duty to pass it on.  Still, there are a lot of other ways I can fill my time...60 of them right outside my door, actually.

Helping doesn't always mean butterflies and warm fuzzies.  Sometimes it's frankly a swift kick in the pants "you're not doing this right..."  If you can't handle that, get pet rocks...because at some point ALL of us aren't doing something right - and we have to learn somehow.

I'd rather people learn it with a swift kick in the pants than by digging a hole to put a goat in.  I've dug holes...it's not fun.  The school of hard knocks sucks.

I'm glad I was able to help the animals I was able to help.  I hope the ever filling archive here continues to help future animals...and I'm glad for the handful of friends I found through BYC and BYH.  Back into lurkerdom I go.


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## Our7Wonders (Mar 6, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I'm glad I was able to help the animals I was able to help.  I hope the ever filling archive here continues to help future animals...and I'm glad for the handful of friends I found through BYC and BYH.  Back into lurkerdom I go.


Please don't go.  This board is such a great place because of all the different people that come together and bring their own slant on goat raising.  If it were always cut and dry we could read about it in a book.  But goats love to keep us guessing - and becasue of this the books don't always help us.  I have learned so much from you and the other more seasoned goat keepers on this board.  The differences of opinons make this such a REAL place - with REAL help - but those opinions sometimes clash and sometimes it's way too easy for people to be less than respectful when they're not face to face with the person they're dealing with.  It's shocking to me sometimes how blunt/bold people can be here.  I would imagine that those same people would never dare to say those things to someone's face. I'm sorry you had a rough time of it here lately. 

I would hate to see you leave and hope you'll reconsider.


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## mossyStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I think when peple offer advice  any where to any one.. you have to be able to take some kind of crap sometimes .. You leave yourself open to it, not all people play nice.. Not everyone is going to agree with what ever it is your saying....Thats just a fact.. ... .. 

I mostly lurk i read almost everything on this board, i joined to learn. Same when i joined BYC back in 2003, I wanted to learn about chickens.

Even on that board a few egos got out of control and ran off good people... it just seems to happen very sad indeed!

As Kim said  If you can't think of something nice to say and you really think you need to say something,  DON'T.... Just let it go!!!!
No one needs to feel belittled.....


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## Roll farms (Mar 6, 2011)

I think if Kate (Helmstead) goes, it's a crying shame and I sincerely hope she reconsiders.

Please, Kate, stay....?

*big sad puppy eyes*

In "real life" I can be one of the harshest, most 'tell it to you straight'-types there is....I've had to learn how to behave / what not to say on message boards.  If *I* can learn it, anyone can.


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## lilhill (Mar 6, 2011)

The unkind remarks that sometimes follow "free, asked for" advice is why I just lurk.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 6, 2011)

BIG sigh here... 

I don't have much to add except to plead with folks, DON'T underestimate the value of EXPERIENCE.  Have I read everything I can get my hands on pertaining to goats?  Yes.  Do I borrow veterinary textbooks from the clinic I work for and read them in my spare time?  Yes.  Is that a substitute for for the know-how of an experienced producer?  Absolutely not.  

Folks- while vets are invaluable they are HUMAN and there are things they just don't know.  Mostly because it's not really within the scope of their job.  Just look at the many, many threads about vets on here and see how veterinarians experienced with goats are such a minority.  Not knocking vets, I work for a great one, but 9 times out of 10 he CANNOT answer my goat questions because they were one chapter in vet school 30 years ago and he doesn't treat them.  Although I do have a specialist I work with for my goats, I can't be calling him up every time I have a question.  I have to rely on my research, my limited experience, and mostly the experience of seasoned producers.

Not only can experienced producers provide answers to life-threatening questions, but do you really think you're going to call/text your vet's cell at 11 o'clock at night when your favorite goat is about to keel over and you just need some moral support from someone who's been there?  Sometimes you really just need someone to say, "you've done everything you can, just keep trying."

We all know there is not ONE way to do everything.  When you're experienced then you can choose which of the million ways works best for you.  But what that means is that when someone says, "I do it this way" it's because they have learned THROUGH EXPERIENCE what works best on their farm.  If your experience is different, fine.  Share politely an alternate way of doing things.  If you have no experience, then just listen and learn.  When you're in that situation try both ways, try none, but don't make severe judgements about the validity or humaneness of a method without good information and experience behind it.  And especially don't ask something like "how do you do this?" then mock someone when they share "how they do this."

It would be an absolute shame to lose Kate's (or Roll's) advice on this forum.  Not every problem can be solved with BoSe, Pen G, probios, and baking soda- I promise.  I almost lost one of my favorite herd members last week to something REALLY nasty and was supported every step of the way by Kate, a seasoned producer and friend.  I can't even begin to say how much I appreciate that.  Or the 6 AM New Year's Day support when I had an awful dystocia.  Good luck finding ANY vet then.  Seriously, a big thank you to Kate and people like her who share their knowledge, not for their own benefit but for the benefit of others.


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## chandasue (Mar 6, 2011)

No joke. I've read about every book I could get my hands on before I got goats but I've learned so much more from all of you.
Thank you!


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 6, 2011)

It goes both ways.


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## ksalvagno (Mar 6, 2011)

There can never be a substitute for experience. Sometimes you also just have to get the right medicine. The knowledge on here has been invaluable to me and I thank everyone who has been willing to share their knowledge.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Mar 6, 2011)

Im sorry to see this posted.  I personally have not seen anything offensive latey.   But I have in the past. 

On a positive note:

I was recently involved in a thread and I wanted to compliment all how well the advice flowed.  It was'nt a battle of wits..but a sharing of methods that worked and she was able to follow it and the goat surrived!!  It flowed beautifully and thats the way this place is supose to work!!  

*Kate please dont go anywhere.  Your advice and experience is valued here and needed.  So I wish you would please rethink your choice!!     I hope you reconsider!! 

Personally Ive never gotten anything but good sound advice and appreciate it greatly!!!  

I hope everyone can continue being respectful of eachother and look to the prime directive of this formum which is to help the GOATIES!!!! 

Thats something we all can come to common ground on!!

WE LOVE GOATS!!!!


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## Goatherd (Mar 6, 2011)

I realize I'm a true newbie here, but when I joined the forum I read the rules and everything your discussing here is an infraction of these rules.

Shouldn't someone have taken matters in hand before it escalated to this point?

I'm just saying...


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 6, 2011)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> Shouldn't someone have taken matters in hand before it escalated to this point?
> 
> .


They did.  The thread was deleted.


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## Roll farms (Mar 6, 2011)

Consider this:

Someone has a goat with...say...a Melanoma....or a hernia.

Their vet, while trying to help...is clueless.

Kate has left.  Myself and others maybe don't know anything about either problem.

That person gets no help b/c Kate's gone.

That goat could suffer.

As far as "It" and how "it" goes...assuming what's meant by that is mutual respect / kindness.

My take:  Being harsh or abrupt is nothing like playing real life "Mean Girls" / acting like high school.  There's a huge difference.

I agree that sometimes things *have* to be said that folks won't like, and that sometimes feelings will be hurt, but I can honestly say I've never seen any of the experienced people *mock* anyone, or be harsh ON PURPOSE, *with the intent of hurting someone*.

And then excuse it w/ cliches or lame justifications.

There are some things that I now will be leery of saying or situations I'll be wary of posting about, and folks I'll be real careful about 'helping' should the need arise, for fear of how I'll be made to look or talked about for good intentions...and that's a shame.

Shame, shame, shame.  
*shakes head sadly*


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## Emmetts Dairy (Mar 6, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> There are some things that I now will be leery of saying or situations I'll be wary of posting about, and folks I'll be real careful about 'helping' should the need arise, for fear of how I'll be made to look or talked about for good intentions...and that's a shame.
> 
> Shame, shame, shame.
> *shakes head sadly*


This is what is distrubing about this behavoir for me.  People will feel funny about asking questions and people will hold back on answering.  There are always a few rotten apples in the basket.    

We should'nt change because of those bad apples.  And dont hold back Roll...becuase its the love of goats is why were all here.  To learn from eachother and share experiences we had while owning goats.  

If we start changing our behavoir and be afraid to answer or ask questions..then we have just empowered the "meanies"   

Just be yourself Roll!! Cuz yourself works well for you!!!


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## ksalvagno (Mar 6, 2011)

I think one of the biggest problems with forums on the internet is that you can't see the person's facial expressions when posting. I have read many posts that I couldn't understand why they went bad because I didn't read a response as being mean but obviously someone else had. So I think when we read posts, take the information you are getting from it and put aside what tone you think it is. If someone is giving you information, more than likely they are not trying to be personally mean. They are trying to get a point across.

Anyone has the ability to find a local mentor or vet if they feel that they can't get info from the internet.


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## freemotion (Mar 6, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Goatherd said:
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And it will be deleted more quickly if more people hit the report button.  The moderators don't know there is a problem until it gets reported.  Lots of reports means quicker action.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Mar 6, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> I think one of the biggest problems with forums on the internet is that you can't see the person's facial expressions when posting. I have read many posts that I couldn't understand why they went bad because I didn't read a response as being mean but obviously someone else had. So I think when we read posts, take the information you are getting from it and put aside what tone you think it is. If someone is giving you information, more than likely they are not trying to be personally mean. They are trying to get a point across.
> 
> Anyone has the ability to find a local mentor or vet if they feel that they can't get info from the internet.


 Great Point!!!  I was thinking the same thing.


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## elevan (Mar 6, 2011)

freemotion said:
			
		

> n.smithurmond said:
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> 
> 
> ...


Use the report button please!  I had to use it once to ask that bad posts about me be deleted...I didn't want the thread gone just the bad stuff.

And if the more experienced people on here like Kate and Kim go, then why should the rest of us stay??  I beg of you Kate and Kim, please reconsider and don't go anywhere!!

Of course there will be differences of opinions.  And what works for you may not work for me.  What works in Georgia or Arizona may not work in Ohio and so on and so forth.  And if the advise given doesn't fit with your personal faith or what you are willing to do just say so plainly.  There is really no reason to get nasty.  Try all or try nothing but don't get nasty about the advise.

I'm personally lucky enough to have a goat vet but he's the only one for a large area...and so not always available.  Which is why I often turn to this board to read or ask questions.  If the people experienced people on this board were to leave then I would have to wait sometimes days to talk to my vet - that could mean my goats would either suffer or die.

Again, I beg the experienced goat people who are considering leaving to reconsider.  We (I) need your experience on this board.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 6, 2011)

.


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## mossyStone (Mar 6, 2011)

I have to agree there if you go looking for negitive  stuff YOU will find it... Going to another board to find it is an easy way to do it.... I personaly could care less what someone might write about me here,  i'm much to old to play that game......


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## TheSheepGirl (Mar 6, 2011)

I do want to add that recently it seems that all the rude and short fused people seem to have gone from the forum. Given there are a few instances now and then, but not nearly so much as when I first came here and i think others will agree that it is better than it used to be.

For the most part everyone here seems to be helpful and accepting of the advice they are given and the atmosphere here is greatly improved. It's fun on here now that the atmosphere is cleared up a little. We do have the occasional bump, but mostly everyone seems quite peachy keen lately. 

I come here when I have a question that i know will strike up prejudice and arguments on other forums.

E.G., the nice calm discussion about disbudding in the topic above, which strikes up arguments else where. Also, castration, scurs, prolapse, etc. you guys all answered and discussed those questions with nice helpful and calm attitudes.

Thanks again for all the calm discussions that make it easier to learn something. You guys make this forum fun and helpful. I've learned far more here than any book could tell me.


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## ThornyRidge (Mar 6, 2011)

is the real issue here about goats or is it the petty juvenile b.s.?  last time I checked the forum was entitled backyard herds forum: raising cows, goats sheep, horses and more...  if you're here for goats and information fine.- you should be welcomed in the herd. if you're hear to create havoc and discord then leave- you really need to find a life outside of the herd! and again find a good vet and be willing to experiment/trial and error- expert is a pretty weighted term in my book and since I have found no two goats alike- well advice and direction may be helpful but one really needs dedication and love of goats to persevere!


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## poorboys (Mar 6, 2011)

I PERSONALLY WAS ON ANOTHER FORUM OVER A YEAR AGO, AND ALL THEY DID WAS BICKER AND MAKE PEOPLE FEEL STUPID. WHEN I MET ROLL SHE SUGGESTED I CHECK OUT THIS SITE, AND I HAVE ALWAYS FELT WELCOME AND NEVER FELT LIKE I WAS ASKING A WRONG QUESTION, OR GIVING WRONG ADVICE. LIKE THEY SAID, HANDS ON EXPERICENE IS WHAT IT TAKES TO LEARN, YOU LOOSE SOME AND THEN YOU GET SMARTER IN YOUR HEALTH MANAGEMENT, AND FEED MANAGEMENT BUT YOU CAN'T DO IT ON YOUR OWN, IT HELP 100% WHEN YOU CAN JUMP ON HERE AND ASK FOR HELP. I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A WHITE, RAISING GOATS, AND I'M STILL LEARNING, I APPRECIATE EVERY ONES INPUT WETHER I AGREE OR NOT, I'M NOT GOING TO BE NASTY TO ANY-ONE ,DONE BEEN THRU THAT ON ANOTHER FORUM. THEY MADE ME FEEL SO STUPID ALL THE TIME, OTHER THINGS LIKE MY MEMORY SOMETIMES EXCAPES ME,(FROM SURGERYS) SO I'M ASKING QUESTIONS THAT I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWERES, JUST CAUSE I WENT BRAIN DEAD FOR THAT DAY, I REALLY LOVE THIS FORUM AND I PRAY NO-ONE LEAVES, SOME OF US HAVE THE SAME MANAGEMENT PROGRAMS, BUT ALL OF US WILL RUN INTO SOMETHING THAT WE DON'T KNOW. AND KNOWLEDGE IS BETTER AND THE EXPERICENE THEN ANY VET CAN GIVE YOU. I DONT WANT ANY-ONE TO LEAVE....................


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## glenolam (Mar 7, 2011)

They didn't name this site *Backyard Herds* for nothing.

I agree with everything said here - and appreciate all the 'experienced' advice I've been given in the past.  Sometimes, however, my 'experienced' advice gets tossed aside because of other more 'experienced' advice which makes me very cautious in responding or even starting topics.  We all started at the bottom and I'd like to throw this out there for thought - just because the 'experienced' have 20+ goats and I have 7 doesn't mean my word is worth less.  Just because the 'experienced' have been doing this for 10+ years and I've been doing it for 3 doesn't necessarily mean I know less.  And last but not least just because some of the 'experienced' have registered show goats while I have mutts doesn't mean my mutts are worth less.

We should all remember that we're here to trade thoughts, not be put down for them.


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## KellyHM (Mar 7, 2011)

Hmmm, obviously I missed the thread that started all this, but here's my opinion anyways:

I absolutely LOVE having some place to come and ask people for advice based on their experiences.  I've only had my goats for a year and a half, and could have saved a lot of heartache had I come here before I got them and been more informed before I bought them blindly.  I AM a vet, and I still come here for advice.  I have always been interested in goats, but in school we're lucky to get 3 or 4 classes the whole time that talk about goats.  I had only 3 goat patients during school (took every one that came in)...a UC, a c-section, and a Copper Toxicity.  That's it.  No pracitcal, every day, hands on training.  So I look to people who have done it for advice.  Sometimes I disagree or don't take the advice, but I hae never acted negatively towards anyone who has given advice, b/c I ASKED for it.  Just my opinion...


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## phoenixmama (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm mostly a lurker...and apparently missed the offending thread.  

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate all the experienced people on here (and all the friendly fellow neophytes!).  It's nice to have people to turn to when a problem arises, or to simply share in the many joys of raising goats.


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## mossyStone (Mar 7, 2011)

Glenolam has made some very good points... 

But the one comon thing IS we all come here to learn and share~~~ even the Experts/ Old pros ect.... One should never be leary of asking for or giving advice.  and should not be put down or beat up for giving it... thats the bottom line..... 


If you can't play nice dont play in the sand box


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## helmstead (Mar 7, 2011)

glenolam said:
			
		

> We should all remember that we're here to trade thoughts, not be put down for them.


REALLY?!  Wow.


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## glenolam (Mar 7, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> glenolam said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


REALLY.  Which is why I've never put anyone down for their thoughts.


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## helmstead (Mar 7, 2011)

glenolam said:
			
		

> REALLY.  Which is why I've never put anyone down for their thoughts.


Well, at least not on THIS board.



			
				glenolam on SS said:
			
		

> The mental picture I got from that was priceless.....
> 
> I imagine disbudding a kid out in the garage/barn.  Man holding goat down, woman disbudding with iron.  Kid/Another adult standing by watching.
> 
> ...


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## glenolam (Mar 7, 2011)

Gee...didn't know that was putting you down for your thoughts/ideas. Guess I also can't make light of a tense situation, either. Guess you missed the entire post where I agreed with you.

So much for not being put down for my thoughts.  Great example.


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## helmstead (Mar 7, 2011)

Oh, you mean this?



			
				glenolam on SS said:
			
		

> You know, I've been thinking about this.
> 
> I can see the 'burn to the skull' point a little.  If you actually remove the entire bud when the kid is young by literally burning the outer perimeter off then literally cutting the entire bud off, one might assume the chance for scurs to grow is greatly reduced because the bud was completely removed.  In my mind, if it's gone it's gone and has no chance to regrow back into the skull.
> 
> ...


Excuse me while I don't find that agreeing with me.  Actually,  you call it unethical, accuse me of massacring my goats.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 7, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Oh, you mean this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what are you saying, that it's ok for you and Rolls to be blunt (rude) when using the excuse of goat welfare, but it's not ok for it to happen to you?

Really this whole dramatic thing is being blown out of proportion.  Some people said some things in disagreement w/ your management practices in someone's journal on another forum. Someone tattled to you and you got your feelings hurt. Nobody said anything attacking you personally, just disagreeing with your practices.  You refuse to listen when Glen said no harm was meant by it.  



So that's it.  Y'all can play "poor me" if you want, but I'm done with it.  Enjoy your goats. 


			
				Admin said:
			
		

> *Please keep private issues private. Do not post PMs or emails on open forum*


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## glenolam (Mar 7, 2011)

OK, Kate. You win.  You're right.  You're better than me and you've never once been rude or snarky yourself.  

Never once did I say what you did was unethical. Never.  Never once did I call you out anywhere and say what you were doing was wrong.  I said your pictures were clean cut and I could see how the possibility for infection was slim.  I thought I was applauding you.  I said I could see your point, but there was a side of me that didn't agree with it - I called it my ethical side.  Take it for what it's worth.

So much for me expressing my thoughts and opionons out loud on another forum.  But thanks for dragging it on over.

I'm glenolam over on Sufficient Self, everyone.  Please read my personal journal to keep up to date with me if you'd like.

Guess another member has just left BYH now.  Thanks for all the good times - may every one have a little sense of humor every now and then.

G'day from one of the bad eggs.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 7, 2011)

Something I feel needs saying is that it really irritates me when someone gets their feelers hurt, puffs up, and decides to take their marbles and go to the house, and then everybody piles on begging them "PLEASE DON'T GO!!"  That alone is a little much..

But what irritates me even worse than that is when the puffer-upper doesn't *actually* take their marbles anywhere after threatening it..  

Kinda makes me wonder if they just wanted the satisfaction of seeing how many people would beg them to stay.

:/


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## PattySh (Mar 7, 2011)

Kate, I'm glad you are still here. Your animals are beautiful.
I've only been here a short time and you are a wealth of information.
 I'm have no what all the issues were about but I hope things have settled down and you'll stay.
I am not picking favorites, I hope no one leaves and everyone is a wealth of information.

My thoughts on the hard feelings showing up on this board are:
I think it's wonderful  and applaud the fact that there is no critizing those breeding pedigree show animals and those preferring grade milkers or pet animals, or meat  or fiber animals. That in itself if unheard of in the canine world online!!

To everyone I don't think it takes #'s of animals to be a good caretaker and know your stuff, Someone with one  or a few animals can be as knowlegeable as someone with 100. I've also seen the small  sheds and barns with a few goats  that are awesome and some  that are horrific and large barns  with 100+ that are wonderful and barns with 100 goats that shouldn't own one.  It doesn't take a grand barn and fancy tools to be able to give advice either. I've seen alot of different "farms" in my day and surprised and horrified equally.

I think if we've found this site it was the willingness to learn and help our animals and we all need to remember that and be respectful to those that are trying to help. I think the responses given should be personal experiences and knowledge. Tried and true. Take the info that works for you, leave the rest and be respectful.  When in doubt ask your vet.  If you are not feeling at all confident maybe you need to find a mentor.


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## helmstead (Mar 7, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Something I feel needs saying is that it really irritates me when someone gets their feelers hurt, puffs up, and decides to take their marbles and go to the house, and then everybody piles on begging them "PLEASE DON'T GO!!"  That alone is a little much..
> 
> But what irritates me even worse than that is when the puffer-upper doesn't *actually* take their marbles anywhere after threatening it..
> 
> ...


I said I'd be lurking...not leaving.


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## Our7Wonders (Mar 7, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> then everybody piles on begging them "PLEASE DON'T GO!!"  That alone is a little much..
> :/


While I must admit that it scares the hell out of me to disagree with you (really!) I must say that, at least in my case, it's not a matter of tyring to smooth out ruffled feathers, but instead a matter of hoping to keep someone around that has a wealth of knowledge to share.    

Even though you scare me   I'd do the same if you were considering leaving.  I whole heartedly mean it when I say that I value your opinion - as well as Rolls and Helmstead and anyone else I've seen that may be a little more bold and blunt than I'm used to.  I may be a little afraid to disagree with any of you - but that's just becasue I'm a little more timid and hate confrontation.  But I know you have the goats best interest in mind.  While I don't consider anyone's word the be all and end all to everything goat - I will consider what any of you have to say - because I can tell from your posts that you guys have been there and done that - and maybe even bought a T-shirt. 

So I'm not stroking any feathers or tyring to beg anyone to stick around - but if the knowledge goes I think we all will suffer, at least a little, for it.


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## Roll farms (Mar 7, 2011)

I asked this morning that this thread be locked before this very thing happened....

I don't want to have an argument w/ anyone...I didn't say any specifics.

Now I will...I think it's pretty chicken spit to run to another board and whine about how the "Chest beaters" won't comment on your thread, and then whine more about it when they do only b/c you don't like what you're told.  

And to mock the very people you want help from...I hate 2-faced people...If I don't like someone, I just ignore them...and I sure won't turn around and ask for their help when I need it and be nice to their face when I'm sticking a knife in their back.

If you don't like an opinion you get...DON'T ASK FOR IT.

I think that, if and when it's those people having a problem, and you need the help of the chest beaters, you'll regret saying the things you did.

I had hoped that by reminding you of the value of the good advice we can get here, you'd quit being petty and acting like high school kids.  

I guess I was wrong...


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## mossyStone (Mar 7, 2011)

I really think it is time to act like ADULTS.

 You two are acting very badly Kate your as guilty and Glenolam of keeping this going.....

So you posted pic of how you disbud and a few people wether they said it here or some other board  didnt think it was so niffty now your just being snarky ..... 

If your going to lurk then post other quotes form other source thats . what the heck is that good for, but making more problems here...

Now lets just leave this alone and agree to disagree.....


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 7, 2011)

This thread need to be removed!!!!!


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## DuckLady (Mar 7, 2011)

Closed at OP's request.


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