# New to goats



## Moody (Sep 23, 2014)

I just got a 5.5 month old lamancha doeling with no papers and a approx 4 month old registered alpine buck. I planned on breeding them in May for an October first kidding. 

I was excited to get them because we just finished our barn but our fencing around the barn is field fencing on 2 sides so we need to complete the other 2 sides. I finished out a 8x8 stall in the barn for safety at night and planned on tying them out in the wooded areas during the day. I thought they were sexually mature at 8 months or so but have since learned it can be as early as 3 months so my plan to house them together at night had to change. We divided the 8x8 into 2 sides but that buck was trying to leap out of a 4 ft high fence! So we added fencing to the top and he is kept in but I guess he was able to leap the pallets we used to divide it into two halves and he was with her for up to 3 hours this morning. Hopefully not pregnant this time, too young.  I'm already fighting this guy on the fencing and I have had him for 3 days. Is that because she is likely in heat? He won't be that hard to contain normally right. 
When fencing is complete I will have a 16x16 or 32x32 (16' fencing panels) buck pen and leave the does in the pen with barn. I will find 2 more goats, one female and one male to keep these two company. Please tell me that my buck pen will be high enough to keep him in. I think they are 4ft tall. The buck pen could be portable so they could have fresh forage every week or so, would those panels work for a moveable fence?

Our field grass is very tall so we cut some to use as bedding and to eat at night. How often does this need cleaned out? Can I throw grass and all into a huge pile for compost? What about the manure pellets they leave in the fenced area around the barn? Does that ever present a problem? Too much poo on the ground causing worm infestations? I'm thinking it is 75-100 ft on each of the 4 sides so that is the approximate size for 2 maybe 3 goats with separate housing for bucks.


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## SA Farm (Sep 25, 2014)

First of all, Welcome! And congratulations on your new additions! Goats are a lot of fun, but housing/fencing can be challenging at times.
I would not think that 4 foot fencing would be high enough to keep a buck in rut in. I have 6-8 foot fencing mostly and that's for the Nigerian Dwarf breed!
Your buck may be fighting the fencing because he is lonely, bored, or just feels like it. Goats love escaping! Usually once there's a set routine and company, things settle down, but it depends on the goat!
The panels sound good, but you may have to rig some sort of top to them or use electric wire to keep him/them off and away from the fence.
The manure in the fields will compost there and fertilize the field. The manure inside with whatever bedding you use can be thrown into a big pile for compost. 
As for worm problems on the ground, keep the hay off the ground in a feeder and the goats will usually go for the taller browse anyway and just keep an eye on them for signs. How often you deworm is up to you. We do it once a year, but others do it more often depending on the area, etc.
Got any pictures you can share of them?


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## Southern by choice (Sep 25, 2014)

Congrats on your new additions!

As far as keeping the buck/s contained. Much depends on the buck.
We have 4 ft field fencing and we have Nigerian Dwarfs, Lamancha, Mini- Mancha, and Kiko Bucks. All of our bucks are well mannered and  behaved... No jumpers, docile, not hard on the fencing etc.
We have had a Kiko go through a fence 2x but that was because the fence was weak and that one section was welded wire. 
Personally I will not have a buck that is a jerk. LOL  If they are jumpers, this causes a great deal of stress for the owner and the does. Bucks that chase. paw at you (aggressively), tear up fences, ill tempered don't have any place in our breeding program. They do get a place in the freezer.

Alpines are known to be hard on fences. Yet that doesn't mean every Alpine is.

Hotwire on top or even to the inside of the fence is best especially during rut.

As far as de-worming... ALWAYS have a fecal run to identify the parasite before de-worming. Guessing is never good as it leads to resistance to de-wormers. Best to learn to run your own! 
Understanding and getting trained in FAMACHA is also important but never to be used as the sole diagnostic method.

If you plan on milking your doe you will want to make sure the buck and doe do not share a fenceline. Your milk will taste like buck...and that is just GROSS!

oh and yes, PICS are a MUST!


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## Moody (Sep 25, 2014)




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## Moody (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks for responding! They are named Lucy and Ricky. 
Could he be in rut at 4 ish months? He does show keen interest in her. But I think she was/is/ or soon will be in heat. 

I do want her for a family milk goat. I've only tasted alpine milk from the local dairy and it was a bit goaty tasting. I was hoping to have milder milk from lamancha. I would like to find either Nigerian or Nubian in milk for now because I really want some fresh milk now. If I could find a Nubian in milk I could just get a wether to keep the buck from getting lonely. And not mess with two different breeds of buck because the alpine could breed with both Nubian and lamancha but not Nigerian. 

These goats have had no vaccinations and were on nonmedicated feed. I like that route because it seems more natural and just easier. I do see that there are all kinds of diseases they can get though and honestly it all seems complicated. But I guess that needs to be researched or posted in a different area.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 25, 2014)

The current issue may just be related to him being lonely.

You might want to think about a CDT vaccine.

Also, you may be able to breed your doe before next May, maybe this winter when she is 8-9 months old.  It is dependent upon their weight.  Many of the standard breeds are bred at that age, and we have bred some Nigerians at that age. I'm not sure what a LaMancha should weigh to be bred, but someone else on the forum probably does.  She appears to be pretty good size in your picture.

I'm not 100% sure, but heat cycle may not be very strong for a LaMancha in May.  Even Nigerians which are considered year round breeders often don't cycle in the summer months.  So, if you don't breed her this fall/winter, you may be waiting until next fall. Just a thought.


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## Moody (Sep 25, 2014)

I can do it earlier. Mainly I was trying to time an annual out of state trip in September around a time that she wouldn't be in milk or kidding yet so that my friend who care for animals while we are gone doesn't have to learn how to milk. We could do our trip in May or so though if need be. 

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm so new to this. I will research that particular vaccine.


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## OneFineAcre (Sep 25, 2014)

Moody said:


> I can do it earlier. Mainly I was trying to time an annual out of state trip in September around a time that she wouldn't be in milk or kidding yet so that my friend who care for animals while we are gone doesn't have to learn how to milk. We could do our trip in May or so though if need be.
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts. I'm so new to this. I will research that particular vaccine.



Wow, you're planning around a trip next Sept.  You are good.
I can't hardly plan for next week. 

Your goats are very nice looking.  Thanks for the pictures.


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## Southern by choice (Sep 25, 2014)

I agree with One Fine.

Please consider the CD&T vaccine. This is one thing that just about every vet would agree on. You could put 3 vets in a room and they will never agree on anything BUT the CD&T. 

We do not use medicated feed either. Each farm's dynamics and management will be different. Herds that are large with high #'s of kids will often use a medicated feed for the best health for the kid. Cocci and worms can kill a kid and if there are 40-50 kids to tend to medicated feed usually makes sense.
Some regions, like the SE are very humid and wet thus more issues with parasites and cocci.
Some farms may not use any medicated feed or do cocci programs however one bad year and that could all change. It is more about the herdsman knowing when to change a particular management style for the over health of their herd.
Always keep this in mind as you enjoy your journey with your goats. More goats means more management, higher incidence of ... everything.  Keep your options open in other words.

Depending on your doe you may be able to breed her this winter. Lamanchas are seasonal and usually cycle from Sept- Jan. 
Some will do the 80% of their mature weight as a rule for breeding. Of course that depends on their genetics. Some Lamanchas are 90-100 lbs at maturity (3 years) and some are 120+.

It is true many breeders will breed at 8-9 months because they simply cannot wait a whole extra year. We look at our Lamanchas and Nigies as well as our Kiko's and evaluate structure, weight, maturity, height, length, and hips. We also look at parasite resistance and EPG (Eggs Per Gram) levels.

Typically the Lamancha, Nigerian and Nubian are higher in butterfat than the Alpines. Our one adult Lamancha has very sweet milk. Our other has good milk yet not as sweet. Our others haven't freshened yet. Our Nigies are pretty consistent, creamy milk with nice flavor. My favorite milk is from one of our unregistered does (LOL) her milk goes to a separate jar... that is MY milk for my coffee.
The families favorite milk is from one of our Lamanchas.
My youngest daughter got a Nubian this year so it will be interesting to see how her milk is. Our Mini-manchas will be kidding in 2015 so we are very excited to see how their milk will be.

The Alpine's milk may be goaty but I suspect there are other reasons, than because it is an Alpine. Alpines are lower in butterfat. More like grocery store 2% IMO.

Some breeds are known for "goaty" milk... Alpines are not generally one of those breeds. But it will vary from line to line, goat to goat, as well a feed and forage, all those things contribute.

Chilling the milk quickly will make a difference also.

...and the goats...


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## Danica (Dec 29, 2014)

Hello everyone I am looking into perhaps getting two Nigerian goats for milking but also as pets. I am curious as to how large of an enclosure should be for two nigerian goats as well as a den for them to get out of the weather. These goats would live in Elverson, PA incase that helps any. I have been reading about these goats and someone suggested using wood pallets for the den since they are sturdy would that work? Also for the enclosure I was curious if mesh chain link would work, I was thinking of having the chain link cover the top as well so no wild animals could get in at all. Please let me know what you think and what the dimensions should be. Also I would like to have the den to be inside of the enclosure as well as a milking stand.


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## SA Farm (Dec 29, 2014)

Danica said:


> Hello everyone I am looking into perhaps getting two Nigerian goats for milking but also as pets. I am curious as to how large of an enclosure should be for two nigerian goats as well as a den for them to get out of the weather. These goats would live in Elverson, PA incase that helps any. I have been reading about these goats and someone suggested using wood pallets for the den since they are sturdy would that work? Also for the enclosure I was curious if mesh chain link would work, I was thinking of having the chain link cover the top as well so no wild animals could get in at all. Please let me know what you think and what the dimensions should be. Also I would like to have the den to be inside of the enclosure as well as a milking stand.



 I keep 2-3 in a 5x6 shed and have used large dog houses temporarily for 2 before. Dog houses are much more difficult to clean out though!
Wood pallets do make for great building and fencing materials 

For future reference, it's usually best to start a new thread with your questions - posts can be over-looked when added to an inactive thread and it's usually considered to be rude. There are exceptions though


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