# Yearling has bleeding, is "skinny", and milk but no signs of baby



## bbredmom (Mar 4, 2013)

Hayley was due sometime this month. She was showing no signs of labor this morning, and this evening we came home to her with labor blood dripping, no ligaments, no baby. She has developed a milk bag. Her uterine side is very soft, and she seems completely fine. Also no contractions. 

Could she have had a premie and it died, and the dogs cleaned it up? I know they wouldn't kill a newborn because they have saved new of a abandoned by the mother before. Could she just be in early labor? I've never had a doe to skinny soft so fast

Her temperature and appetite are great. I've got her locked up with her sister in the birthing pen. 

What else should I do?


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## bbredmom (Mar 5, 2013)

Almost 12 hours later and still no signs of a baby. No real contractions, but her tail is in position. She's also not oozing anything at the moment. Still no fever, good appetite and attitude.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Mar 5, 2013)

I would assume that she had it and something happened to it. Either it was stillborn and the dogs removed it or it wasn't and the dogs removed it.   Or she could have had a cloud burst pregnancy.  Essentially a blighted ovum that is carried to term but doesn't develop. Lots of fluid and hormones but no baby.


The way to be sure though is to have her scanned by the vet.


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## Pearce Pastures (Mar 5, 2013)

x2 If she was dripping blood, I would have a vet check her out.


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## bbredmom (Mar 5, 2013)

Called my vet, she's out of town for the week at a dog show, of course. and of course there aren't any other vets around that will see goats. 

It wasn't bright red blood, it was what I think of as birthing blood. And she's not dripping anymore today. 

I'm really thinking its a cloud burst pregnancy, the whole time she was preggers it never felt right, ya know? She wasn't even meant to be bred, so when she started to show I was very suprised (there was fence jumping involved, I assumed).

And the dogs wouldn't eat a goat, they wont even eat the varmints they kill. They kept two premie twins alive last February when the mother had them and literally walked away in 40 degree temps.

Husband is home this week and will be checking on her throughout the day.

What should I do now? should we milk her? Let her dry up? Give her some antibiotics? She truly has no temp and is not in any distress.

ETA: Husband just called and said now Hayley's mother Speedy is in early labor, and they both are doing that stretchy thing and rubbing their bellies. So I have no idea at this point.


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## ksalvagno (Mar 5, 2013)

Unless you have gone in to make sure there was no baby, you can't be sure. If that kid was in a position that it couldn't even come through the birth canal, they don't feel the need to push. You need to get in there and check for a kid. Hopefully the cervix is still open. I know of several cases where the doe didn't push because the kids were too stuck to even go into the birth canal and the owners had to go in. I even had that problem last November where my doe was clearly in labor and not pushing. Had a huge buck in there that just wasn't going to come out without help. Got the vet out and had 2 healthy kids.


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## bbredmom (Mar 5, 2013)

Ok, well, I've never had to do that. How do you check without hurting them? Couldn't she just be in early labor and not need to push yet? 

The closest I've ever come was turning a kid right side up when his feet were sticking out.

Why must my vet be out of town!

ETA: Husband says she keeps getting in a squat position and maybe pushing?


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## ksalvagno (Mar 5, 2013)

Glove up and go in. You have to go in slowly. Start with a couple fingers to help stretch her and then just keep adding fingers. You will have to stick your whole hand in. Even with a Nigerian, I have been in almost up to my elbow.

I like to go with the 30 minute rule. If you don't see progress when she is in active labor in 30 minutes, then go in and check things out.


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## bbredmom (Mar 5, 2013)

Ok, I've told my husband (who is home with pneumonia of course)

ETA: PenG or LA200 for aftercare? I would think LA200 since it is specifically recommended for uterine infection after freshening.


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## bbredmom (Mar 5, 2013)

My lovely husband says there is nothing in the birth canal, he went all the way to the opening of what he thinks is her uterus.

Perhaps she didn't breed when I thought she did and wasn't as far along. She could have had a miscarriage. That would explain the messy bits, but not the milkbag. Should we milk her?


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## ksalvagno (Mar 5, 2013)

If she bagged up, then I would milk her and save it since it should be colostrum. Was your husband's arm in far? Usually to get all the way into the uterus, you are in up to your elbow.


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## bbredmom (Mar 5, 2013)

I didn't ask exactly how far, but he grew up homesteading goats, so I trust him to do it far enough.

Her temp was 103.1, respiration normal, gut sounds normal, seems to be a happy healthy goat.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Mar 5, 2013)

The only way to be absolutely sure is to have a vet scan her.  Also if she did have a false pregnancy she may not have passed all of the bits of tissue etc from that so she'll need to stay on an antibiotic for at least 5 days.  We do 10 with retained placenta. 

 I would feel very comfortable milking her. Save the colostrum for future use.  Toss the milk during the antibiotic and for the withdrawal time and then use it after you hit the first good date.


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## bbredmom (Mar 5, 2013)

The vet will be back in town tomorrow, but she doesn't have an ultrasound. She's a wonderful vet, very flexible and willing to talk anytime of day or nite, but doesn't have a lot of equipment. 

I'm going to call my Cat/Dog vet and see if they have one and if so if they will scan her.

I was going to do 1cc LA200 for 5 days (going by fiasco farms 3cc per 100 pounds, and she weighs about 30 pounds). I'm going to milk her tonite and freeze the colostrum. We never seem to have it when we need it  She didn't seem opposed to the quick milking I did this morning. Of course I'm a HORRIBLE milker (anyone who says its easy obviously didn't grow up in the city like me) so we shall see how it goes.


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