# Akbash LGD puppies found abandoned in CO



## BrendaMNgri (Aug 28, 2017)

http://www.steamboattoday.com/news/puppy-predicament-livestock-protection-dogs-rescued/

Another sad case of commercial sheep producer mismanagement and lack of responsibility on their part.
This happens all the time. It is rampant.

As many mistakes, cruel training methods, gaffes, stupid moves like crossing non-LGDs with LGDs as hobby and smaller family farmers and homesteads often make with LGDs, overall, *most *hobby farmers seem to have more compassion for LGDs. And I think that is going to be the saving grace for these dogs. That, and public outcry against what some of these larger operators are continually getting away with.

When I contracted for ASI on the working dog insurance program it was ongoing issue and that is why they had me write the loss prevention manuals because I advocated responsible handling, use, etc. of LGDs. But, huge commercial operators in WY, CO, ID, NV etc. run these mostly untouched, wild LGDs who inbreed on the range, go whelp out in the brush, produce more wild, sickly pups….vicious circle. The producers never claim them even though it's easy to figure out who the dog belongs to by contacting BLM or Forest Service to find out who was permitted to graze in the area. They never own up to the dogs.

The politics is deep. These big commercial guys have big money (in spite of what you may hear them whining about) and big connections, and they often just don't care. It is all about bottom line, money, money, money.  Their herders don't care or more times than not, are not properly trained. The CO Woolgrowers guy quoted making excuses is just classic, classic.  Makes my blood boil. 

OK my rant for the day!


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## Mike CHS (Aug 28, 2017)

That is sad.  I wonder what the chance of a happy ending is in this one.


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## Baymule (Aug 28, 2017)

I had no idea. My dogs are loved, cared for and part of the family. I cannot conceive the notion of LGD's being treated in this horrible manner. Thank you for this wonderful eye opening article.

What a crying shame for those puppies and all the puppies dumped in such a manner. I hope these found good homes.


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## BrendaMNgri (Aug 29, 2017)

This may be an area-of-the-country phenomenon but in open range, big county where large commercial (we're talking upwards of 2,000, 4,000, 6,000 and more head of sheep per outfit) operators lease land and/or have permitted grazing on public lands, the "use 'em and dump 'em" mindset prevails and this goes on all the time, as both articles pointed out. There are exceptions. I've sold pups to large commercial operators who are compassionate and kind with their dogs, handle them, are responsible owners. I am thankful for them. They are too few and far between. There needs to be more public pressure put on these guys doing this…IMHO. Their irresponsible handling and use of LGDs will spell LGD's doom in this country via government interference, restrictions, bans, etc. That was what drove ASI to do the best practices manual - to nip it in the bud. It received only lukewarm reception from most operators. Sad.


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## babsbag (Aug 29, 2017)

When dogs are on that much land how are they fed?


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## BrendaMNgri (Aug 31, 2017)

By the herders. They live out in camps, and the owner typically brings in bags of dog food for the herders (who are typically now Peruvians here on Green Cards to work - in the old days of course they were Basques.) Dogs are fed in camp. BUT you also have the jerks who just barely toss some kibble out on the ground and walk off. And then you have the beyond-jerks who don't feed at all, who shoot an old ewe and walk off and let dogs eat her - totally wrong, but some of the worse commercial operators are known to do this.


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## BrendaMNgri (Aug 31, 2017)

In case you are wondering how they live, they live many of them in these cute and fully functional sheep wagons.
These wagons are "hot" these days and people are buying them to use as homes, campers, etc.
I'd love to have one….  http://idahosheepcamp.com


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## babsbag (Aug 31, 2017)

Sometimes it is embarrassing to be among the human race.


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## Simpleterrier (Aug 31, 2017)

Just remember that this is probably an isolated case or that they had a reason for leaving the pups that non of us know. A lot of things are only presented from a one sided idea and not necessarily the facts. Also remember the majority of us in here do it for a hobby or it's their retirement. If we all did it to make money we would do it differently than what we do now. Just think before you reply and try to see the whole picture.


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## babsbag (Aug 31, 2017)

BrendaMNgri said:


> And then you have the beyond-jerks who don't feed at all, who shoot an old ewe and walk off and let dogs eat her - totally wrong, but some of the worse commercial operators are known to do this.



This is what I would find unacceptable. Asking my dogs to eat one of their charges is incomprehensible and disgusting to me. I know that they are supposed to clean up dead animals, but this would just be wrong on so many fronts. These animals need to be given the same respect as the human help as far as food, water, shelter, and basic care.


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## Simpleterrier (Aug 31, 2017)

I would bet world wide that more lgd eat what they are guarding then other food or what they or the Shepherd can kill.  It would be what is available to the herders. Also no animal should ever have the same respect given that a human is. But that animal should be taken care of and that will differ from people to people.


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## babsbag (Aug 31, 2017)

These animals that lay their lives on the line to protect the lively hood of their owner do deserve respect. If a choice has to be made between human life and animal life the human wins, but there are times that the animal may be more deserving of life...just sayin'.  Killing a sheep or goat and offering it as food is one thing, and perhaps the shepherds do that for themselves as well, but killing an old sheep and having the dogs eat it where it lies is different, at least in my mind.


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 31, 2017)

Word of the day
Conjecture 
An opinion or conclusion based on incomplete information


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## BrendaMNgri (Sep 3, 2017)

The _ganadaras _I have imported Spanish Mastiffs from in Spain feed commercial bagged dog kibble, just as many of us do.
I've seen photos of one of them pouring the food out on the ground in a long line so the 20 or so guardians and herders can line up and eat.
None of them ever slaughter a ewe with the express intent of it feeding their pack of dogs that I know of.
Nor do the dogs kill any sheep to eat off of for lack of any other food source.


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## Beekissed (Sep 15, 2017)

Simpleterrier said:


> I would bet world wide that more lgd eat what they are guarding then other food or what they or the Shepherd can kill.  It would be what is available to the herders. Also no animal should ever have the same respect given that a human is. But that animal should be taken care of and that will differ from people to people.



Amen to that.  I wouldn't kill an old sheep or chicken expressly for feeding of the dogs, but my dogs do get the meat scraps from butchering the animals they guard, be that cattle, sheep, or chickens.  It's just good economics and it also helps them see these animals they don't particularly bond with as as our collective food source, both theirs and mine.  That's something they will guard well.


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