# Herding in Action New video pg 3!



## Southern by choice (Dec 27, 2016)

@Mike CHS  thought you'd like this!

wow- love to see dogs working 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1357144270981125


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## Mike CHS (Dec 27, 2016)

Thank you - I never tire of watching these awesome Border Collies.  They have an intensity that always amazes me no matter how much I see it.

Then you have our Aussie who isn't nearly as impressive to watch but gets it done since the sheep aren't afraid of her and her low intensity gaze.


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## Bruce (Dec 27, 2016)

As much fun as it it to watch a herding dog racing around, perhaps yours is more impressive. The animals in the video were looking stressed by the chase. More than likely they have been herded into that door so many times they would go there all by themselves when calmly herded in that general direction. Instead 3 ended up on the wrong side of the wall and had to be rounded up. 

When they do trials, do you bring your dog(s) AND your sheep/goats/xxx or do they have to herd unknown animals based on commands by the owner? I can see where the rapid "corralling" would be helpful for sure since the animals don't know the fields, where they are supposed to go and/or don't know the dog(s) and would likely run scared.


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## Mike CHS (Dec 27, 2016)

Each sponsor for a trial provides the sheep so they are always unknown.  Trials are more controlled and can cost you points if the sheep are pushed too hard. Not to mention if a dog pushes hard the sheep will never finish the course.  They will panic and head for a gate and you wind up disqualified.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 27, 2016)

@Bruce  you must not have ever had sheep. 



Bruce said:


> As much fun as it it to watch a herding dog racing around, perhaps yours is more impressive. The animals in the video were looking stressed by the chase. More than likely they have been herded into that door so many times they would go there all by themselves when calmly herded in that general direction. Instead 3 ended up on the wrong side of the wall and had to be rounded up.



The dog is not "racing around" and if you watch the dog is also not chasing. The distance the dog keeps is incredible. The dog is narrowing the path and moving the sheep.
On small farms with little land and a couple of homegrown sheep that may be one thing but there is a reason herding dogs have been used for centuries.
Sheep, no matter how many times they have been to a barn, do not just come when called. 
If you've ever been around 20-200 sheep you will know why these dogs are employed. Sheep are flight oriented... meaning they will go whichever way.

Most people raising sheep are not raising pets, they are raising sheep.. for food and or wool. 

It would have been nice to have a good herding dog when our sheep were running down the highway. 

Put it this way we had a goat that was just a dummy, never warmed up to people EVER... we had him in a 1 acre lot and it took 5 people over 3 hours to finally grab him. That is one goat! 
If you have a flock of sheep, lets say 20 sheep on all that land ... how long do you think it would take you to bring them up to the barn? 

When we got some of our first Kiko goats they were very primitive from a large farm. Yet every evening the lady put her BC's out to bring the goats home. She did not have LGD's to protect them and so the goats had to be brought up and in, without the herders there is no way she would have ever rounded them up.


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## CntryBoy777 (Dec 27, 2016)

No matter how many times I watch the dogs 'Working', I am always amazed and awe-struck at their abilities and the dedication of their handlers/owners.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 27, 2016)

CntryBoy777 said:


> No matter how many times I watch the dogs 'Working', I am always amazed and awe-struck at their abilities and the dedication of their handlers/owners.



I am too! 
More so now than ever... I think because people have forgotten that dogs were domesticated and bred for purpose and not to be dressed up and pushed around in baby strollers. Dogs that are given the opportunity to do what they were bred for (at least on some level) are happiest.

My old GSD when my children were little would stay with them at all times... they were her "flock"... if one went one way and a few were another way on the land my old girl would have them in a group before anyone knew what had happened. It was like magic. Not once did she ever chase any of our children, ever. 

And we wonder why so many "pets" are on head meds for anxiety and behavioral issues.


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## NH homesteader (Dec 27, 2016)

Very  cool.  My daughter thought it was awesome.  I thought the sheep looked like sheep...  Not afraid.  The dog kept a good distance.  Nice to see dogs working.  All the people who try to keep a border collie or Aussie as a couch dog should see what they're meant to do! Too cool.


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## Mike CHS (Dec 27, 2016)

I have been trying to find a picture of the 1st trial we went to.  There were probably 35 Border Collies there (and our Aussie) all lined up at the fence fixated on what was going on in the pasture waiting on their turn.


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## CntryBoy777 (Dec 27, 2016)

I am in complete agreement with you @Southern by choice and it is very unfortunate for the animals....especially, when their natural behavior is 'Punished', because the owners want them to be something they can't 'Deliver'. It seems that there isn't very much research being done before hand to find a breed that best 'Suits' the need of the owner.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 27, 2016)

@CntryBoy777  you nailed it. 
People that breed also bare responsibility. I do think the confirmation show world has destroyed many breeds. 

I got a call recently by someone who has followed our farm and dogs for years and they are in need of a dog. Thankfully the person understands that you don't just go "get a dog" and what the person thought they needed is not at all what they need. I'll be trying to locate what they are in need of but it will take some thought and time. 

Of course we all know there is nothing wrong with a couch potato dog but then just don't get a dog that doesn't adapt to that.


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## NH homesteader (Dec 27, 2016)

Oh I have a couch potato dog.  He's part chow and has moments of intense laziness


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## CntryBoy777 (Dec 27, 2016)

One practice that I have always 'Employed' is, I will not have a dog that I haven't been around, seen, touched, and watched. I did one time and got stuck with the 'Dog from Hell'....it was a female black Lab....she wasn't agressive except with the other dogs at feeding time....the way she would cower you'd think I was an 'Abuser', but if I weren't there she would be all Teeth and biting the others off their dishes and defending all of them....I went to get the 'Pick of the Litter' as a Stud fee from a lady I worked with at the time. When I got there, they said "Here is Your dog"....should have left, but I had 2 daughters at home expecting a Puppy...so, I took it....will Never make that 'Mistake' again....


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## babsbag (Dec 27, 2016)

I have two couch potato border collies. I did agility with them for a few years but a bum knee put me into retirement.   Fortunately they are good house dogs and they have never herded anything in their lives. I am lucky.


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## Mike CHS (Dec 27, 2016)

Both of our herding dogs are also house dogs. All of any 'pet' mentality is gone when they are put on sheep.  We have been working with many working dog families now for several years and most of their Border Collies are also house dogs. Our Border Collie just has to be at the pen and the sheep come with us so not a lot of herding is being done.


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## NH homesteader (Dec 27, 2016)

You are lucky!

Both aussies and border collies are great house dogs if they get enough exercise! Even better if  they have a job!


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## CntryBoy777 (Dec 27, 2016)

Most that I have been around in my life are Impressive dogs, and have one of the Happiest 'Personality' of most breeds...IMO.....and their 'Concentration' level is really something to behold....


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## Bruce (Dec 27, 2016)

OK, so chasing wasn't an appropriate term. Yes I did recognize the distance the dog kept. Race around behind them, drop. Move to next location, drop. But the sheep still seemed to be running scared rather than just going back to the barn.

It is true @Southern by choice that I have never had sheep. But my father and step-mother did. No herding dogs. The sheep knew the path to each pasture and back to the barn. All he had to do was open the proper gate and the sheep would mosey along. No running.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 27, 2016)

Every farm is different and each setup is different. Management is different.
Everyone needs to do what they need to do. 
You never know, the person might have a bum knee, etc. etc. Making it hard for the human to get the sheep to the barn.

These animals are livestock. They are fine. They go through more stress with hoof trimming, shearing, etc. 

When you moved your animals to your property you stressed them too. 

I know a lady with sheep who has always managed without a dog... She has one now and loves having it. The use of the herding has greatly helped.

Every animal is also different.
I've got goats that know the milking routine. Some think they know it better than I do LOL but others are dummies and need help. Other farms have goats that all come up the milk line.... Others go PING and run the other way. Not every sheep is just going to "mosey along".

Some sheep I swear always have that crazed, stressed look. 

I imagine they have the dog for a reason. 


I just saw a video on FB of a BC doing a headstand when his human did... Kinda cute but nothing can touch this. A real working dog.


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## Green Acres Farm (Dec 27, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> My old GSD when my children were little would stay with them at all times... they were her "flock"... if one went one way and a few were another way on the land my old girl would have them in a group before anyone knew what had happened. It was like magic. Not once did she ever chase any of our children, ever.





Southern by choice said:


> People that breed also bare responsibility. I do think the confirmation show world has destroyed many breeds.



Really off subject...

What do you think of more straight-backed GSDs vs. more uphill/standard/show GSDs. The GSD breeders sites I've seen breeding more straight backed GSDs claim that the more uphillness of the modern GSD are bad for the breed, but they are a lot less expensive than the "show" German Shepherds with the uphill stance...


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## Southern by choice (Dec 27, 2016)

Most sheep farms don't even use barns. They have them but sheep don't usually live or go in them unless it is sheering, hoof trimming or market time. 
Being around lots of farms and lots of livestock gives a different perspective.


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## Mini Horses (Dec 28, 2016)

I loved the video and the way the dogs make the sheep think it was all THEIR idea to come in.....esp the two who went the wrong way first  

I could watch them work all day.    I love a good cattle horse cutting cattle, too.


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## Mike CHS (Dec 28, 2016)

We are still very much the novices with our sheep but we have had some great mentors.  The first thing we were taught about herding dog handling was that sheep (probably like goats but I don't know) don't like to be FORCED into doing anything.  Even getting them into a trailer we just get them to a catch pen and put the dog in a lay down.  It might take a few minutes but at some point the sheep will almost always bow to the pressure of the dogs stare and get up into the trailer rather than challenge the dog.


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## Beekissed (Jan 22, 2017)

I didn't see stressed sheep either.  I saw a long standing relationship between dog, shepherd and sheep, wherein each understands their job.  The sheep didn't "break" down in the pasture, but came along quickly and quite sweetly and the dog kept great distance.  That's one quick dog!  Loved watching him work.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 2, 2017)

@Mike CHS 

another video!
So cool.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=568458940019760


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## Bruce (Feb 2, 2017)

Serious control there!


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## Mike CHS (Feb 2, 2017)

That is an awesome dog that knows its sheep.  The sheep also shows a lot of respect without bowing to pressure.

We haven't reached that point yet. Our Border Collie is too intense (and still young)and puts too much pressure on in close.  If they don't do what he thinks they should be doing he will get right into them.  We are  working and getting better all the time.  The sheep won't take their eyes off him when he is around.

The Aussie isn't as pretty working and will never do a long out run but she can move sheep in close.  Since she is loose eyed she gets right on them without intimidating them.


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