# New Breed?



## SchönFarbe (Aug 10, 2015)

I was wondering how difficult would it be to officially create a new breed of goat?


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## bloonskiller911 (Aug 10, 2015)

I would say lots of paperwork and very hard.  you would definitely need to show generations of work. and that they breed true, and continue to breed true.  you would have to write up breed standards and functionality too, not impossible though.

what are you breeding?


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## SchönFarbe (Aug 10, 2015)

Dairy breed with a little meat thrown in. The brown goat would be the doe. And the white one would be the Buck.


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## SheepGirl (Aug 12, 2015)

I was reading an article in one of my _sheep!_ magazines about someone who wrote a letter to the editor about how easy/difficult it would be to start a new breed of sheep. One of the main points was "What does this breed do that another breed doesn't?" Livestock are primarily bred for production purposes--usually leaning more towards terminal, maternal, or "dual purpose" traits. For example, with goats, you have meat and dairy breeds. Within those categories you have more breeds. For example, with meat goats, you have Savannah, Kiko, and Boer goats. Boers are the ultimate terminal sire. Savannah and Kiko goats, though meat goats, are primarily a maternal breed, focusing on day-to-day management (hardiness, parasite resistance, mothering ability, prolificacy, etc) rather than the end product (lbs of kid weaned, carcass characteristics, etc, as is the case with Boer goats). Dairy goats you have the high milk producers, the high fat producers, etc. Each one has a purpose, a niche, to fill that another breed doesn't.

What would make your crossbred meat x dairy goats different than another crossbred herd that someone is breeding to suit their specific needs. And to create a breed, you need a large enough scale that you can create many different lines with the same traits that breed true but are not closely related so you can have a sustainable population without too much inbreeding.

And when crossbreeding your goats to "create" a breed, you want the best specimens to use in the creation of the breed. Your breed will only be as good as the goats used to create it. How is their health? Temperament? Comformation? Production? For the meat goats, do you have growth rates and adjusted weaning weights? How about carcass scans? For the dairy goats used, do you have litter size information? Do you have milk production and fat production information? All of this requires extensive record keeping to ensure the traits are breeding true and you can cull any outliers in the population.

Just crossing two goats is just that--crossing two goats and creating a crossbred goat, no different than the millions of other crossbred goats. It takes extensive planning and preparation and record keeping to produce a breed. Oh and don't forget marketing... how are you going to get people to buy into your breed? Again, what sets this goat a part from other goats that fills a need that may or may not need to be filled?


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## Goat Whisperer (Aug 12, 2015)

SheepGirl said:


> I was reading an article in one of my _sheep!_ magazines about someone who wrote a letter to the editor about how easy/difficult it would be to start a new breed of sheep. One of the main points was "What does this breed do that another breed doesn't?" Livestock are primarily bred for production purposes--usually leaning more towards terminal, maternal, or "dual purpose" traits. For example, with goats, you have meat and dairy breeds. Within those categories you have more breeds. For example, with meat goats, you have Savannah, Kiko, and Boer goats. Boers are the ultimate terminal sire. Savannah and Kiko goats, though meat goats, are primarily a maternal breed, focusing on day-to-day management (hardiness, parasite resistance, mothering ability, prolificacy, etc) rather than the end product (lbs of kid weaned, carcass characteristics, etc, as is the case with Boer goats). Dairy goats you have the high milk producers, the high fat producers, etc. Each one has a purpose, a niche, to fill that another breed doesn't.
> 
> What would make your crossbred meat x dairy goats different than another crossbred herd that someone is breeding to suit their specific needs. And to create a breed, you need a large enough scale that you can create many different lines with the same traits that breed true but are not closely related so you can have a sustainable population without too much inbreeding.
> 
> ...


Very well put.


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## goatgurl (Aug 12, 2015)

agree with what SheepGirl said.  if you want milk in your meat goats or meat in your milk goats then breed your milking doe to a meat buck and work from there.  you will need excellent goats of both breeds to come up with what you want and need.  new breed?  nope but a cross breed that suits your needs.  good luck


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## lkmartin1230 (Aug 12, 2015)

IDGA, is a registry that would be perfect to create a new breed with. You would have to fill out paper work, but it's really cheap through this registry. You would have to come up with breed standards, and send it in. Ears, height, colors accepted, ect. But, it's not inpossible to do it. I may try my hand at it in the near future. But, I have a IDGA membership, and the junior membership was $5. Then, registering goats is $5 each. Don't know the exact fees for new breed but, you can email them, they are very helpful.


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## Lilythefarmer (Aug 12, 2015)

I love goats I soon want a fainting goat But making a new breed sounds o' lot o' fun but ain't easy


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## lkmartin1230 (Aug 12, 2015)

I am all for paperwork, and thinking. Gives me something to do while still being involved with goats.


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## SchönFarbe (Aug 13, 2015)

Ok so I am into the whole cart goat thing and dairy goats, so I was going to cross my  La Mancha Saanen cross buck with my Nubian Kiko Boar cross doe lamancha and sannen for there high milk production Nubian for the high quality milk and Kiko Boar for the size and muscle mass for the carts
(Sorry for spelling errors)


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## Bunnylady (Aug 13, 2015)

In theory,  it could work,  but it might work quite differently in practice. You don't get to pick and choose which traits get passed on. You could get a baby with the muscling of a dairy goat and the milk production of a meat goat; you wouldn't know about the milk production until a doe freshened or a buck had daughters that were producing. You would need to have a fairly large number of offspring so you could cull down to the few that have the traits you are looking for, and you might not have all of the traits in any one goat for a few generations.

It could be very frustrating, but it might be very interesting, too. You never know until you try.


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## promiseacres (Aug 13, 2015)

I have velveteen lop bunnies, they are in the process of becoming an official breed thru arba. They have been in this process for well  over 15 years. 
My sheep, painted desert started their own association to become a breed.


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## lkmartin1230 (Aug 13, 2015)

What would you name your new goat breed?specific color, or something that would be different from other breeds?? You would have to set up standards and be VERY strict and careful about your breeding until you got the best conforming results to your standard. Like any other breed they need to be REALLY good examples of their breed. You don't want to put the ones with weakest traits in the herd book, but the very best.


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## lkmartin1230 (Aug 14, 2015)

I am thinking developing some kind of milk/cart goat. I'm in the planning phase, and I have to get the paper work eventually, but have to figure out a name that isn't cheesy. And planning takes like 2 yrs. At least.


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## mikiz (Aug 17, 2015)

I would think that line breeding and a closed studbook would be extremely helpful in this circumstance, however I'm going to assume there's a reason nobody has so far come up with a milk-meat goat breed that excels at both. 
Creating new "breeds" based on things like fur type or colour is very different, as they usually rely on only a couple of genes, recessive, dominant or co-dom, whereas things like milk and muscle rely on a multitude of genetic material, and even an identical twin will not always grow up the same as it's sibling. One may be well muscled and the other may produce more milk, even though they have the same genes. As promiseacres said, their velveteens have taken 15 years to develop, I would expect a productivity/function-related specificated breed to take well over that to breed true and consistently.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 17, 2015)

When developing a new breed, you have to breed very tightly after the first crosses.  In order to develop a strain that will breed true your initial stock must be very inbred.  Once you set the type and they are breeding true, then you have to add from n outside strain to establish a larger gene pool.  Unless you have an excellent reason for establishing a whole new breed such as resistance to disease in certain climates, for instance, it is probably not going to happen in your lifetime.  The best you will be able to achieve will be a listing as a grade.  Think about the Velveteens Promiseacres has taken 15 years to develop - they are rabbits that start breeding at 6 months of age. You can get a litter of rabbits every 3 months from one doe which means you are moving 4x as fast as you will be able to breed with goats.  This means that you will have breedable granddaughters from that doe in 2 years or 2 generations in 1 year.  You can establish a good line within one breed of rabbits fairly quickly (say 10 years), but a whole new breed takes a lot longer.  With goats, you are talking about a generation every year or 2 so if the 3rd generation doesn't give you what you want you are back at square 1 again and have wasted 6 years.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 18, 2015)

You would be better off to choose a breed that would be close to your goals and breed goats that will be closest to your goals within the breed.  Like Sheepgurl says you only would develop a new breed if it were for a specific niche that needs to be filled.  If you want to play with cross breeding different goats, that would be for your own enjoyment.  Crossbreeds can be registered as "grades" after a certain number of generations breeding specimens that conform to the specific breed type of grade where you would register them.  what I mean is they have to resemble Nubians or Toggenburgs to be registered as grade Nubians or Togs.
When it comes to breeding milk/meat all purpose animals you have to know the standards of each.  Dairy animals have flat rib boness, are long bodied with strong toplines, differently angled from hip to pinbones, etc.  Meat animals on the other hand have rounded rib bones, are also long bodied with strong toplines but have hip to pinbone angles that are different.  The skeletal structure of a dairy animal is designed to have enough rumen capacity to eat enough to produce a lot of milk.  The skin should be thin, the udder when empty should be like a soft sack with no meat in it.  The muscles of the udder are strong to hold the weight of the milk filled udder. A dairy animal has been bred for 1000 years to produce milk over a long period of time.  The saying "put everything in the pail" comes from the belief that a good dairy animal may look bony because everything you feed is being converted into milk.  That being said, a meat animal cannot be thin or bony - everything it eats should be used to cover its differently built skeleton with layers of muscle and meat.  Its udder is designed to carry milk only until its kids are weaned.  both types of goats need strong straight legs and good feet, but they are totally different from the skeleton out. 
Since the 2 animals have such different purposes you might consider simply using dairy wethers for carting purposes.  If your prime purpose is for milk, a dairy wether will grow very large and muscular.  If you mainly want meat goats for your carting wethers, then make do with slightly less milk and use Boers.  If you want meat but want to breed carting wethers, then cross dairy does with a Boer buck (or another meat breed)for a meatier animal with heavier muscling for carting.  
The established pure breeds of goats were developed through 1000 years of selective breeding for the purposes to which they are now put.  The colors, shapes, ears, are all regional characteristics which were bred into them because they were separated by geography into the areas where they developed.  New breeds are usually developed from a "sport".  A "sport" is a genetically different animal of the species that throws its dominant look into all its progeny.  New breeds are usually bred from these "sports" because the sport has a new genetic quality that is very desirable, such as disease resistance, wool quality, type of gait in horses, or other characteristic.
Cross breeding can be interesting but remember that most cross breds are less desirable and may be harder to sell than purebred animals.


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## lkmartin1230 (Aug 18, 2015)

I have cross breds, and I haven't had any trouble selling them. The purebreds might go for a $200 or better, while crosses go from anywhere around $85-$200. I don't really have access to any standard breeds, because all I have is Nigerian Dwarf goats, and nobody around here has standard breeds, only 2 people I know have crosses, and 1 has purebred Nigerians. Might just have to train a team of nigerians.


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## promiseacres (Aug 18, 2015)

What about a "club" for people wanting milking cart goats? Could be a starting point for this registry.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 18, 2015)

It's all fun.  I hope you post a picture of your Nigerian D team.  Fun!


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## lkmartin1230 (Aug 18, 2015)

A club would be a good start.


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