# Pregnant doe with bloat



## journey11 (Mar 13, 2019)

Hello, I need some advice! I have a pregnant ND doe, not due until mid-May, down with bloat. She got into the chicken feed yesterday while I was standing there and I thought I got it from her in time, but apparently not. She was down and breathing hard when I came to feed a little while ago.

I have given her two baking soda oral boluses so far, 1 tsp in 1/8th cup olive oil. Daughter is massaging her sides. I have watched a YouTube video on how to puncture the gut and kept 18 guage needles on hand just in case. First time I poked her, I didn't hit it right and yellowish brown fluid came out. Poked her a second time and thought maybe I was getting just air, but could feel the needle moving around when she moved, so I backed out again. I am scared to poke her again and worried if I hurt her or caused a problem from the first bad stick. See the pic below... Should I have gone higher? 

She is up and moving and relaxed a bit since the baking soda. What else should I do? Removing food and water now also. She has gone to the bathroom, burped a little and we let her have a sip of water.




 

 

My Facebook goat group hasn't even put my post through yet.


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 13, 2019)

sorry that your doe is having bloat troubles

tagging others who will have more knowledge in this area: @OneFineAcre , @babsbag @Baymule @Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice @Wehner Homestead


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## journey11 (Mar 13, 2019)

Thank you. I forgot to  add too, it is not frothy bloat. She is on her feet still, breathing is a little labored. She's just standing there. I am just so upset that I didn't poke her right. My youngest daughter came down to watch and hit her nose with a folding lawn chair and had a nose bleed. That did not help my nerves any!

I have put about 3 tsps of baking soda down her so far.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 13, 2019)

The last time we had one with bloat we gave mineral oil 
And lot's of it.
I mean like a whole pint.
Our vet told us to use the mineral oil because it would not digest.
Also, keep her moving around.


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## journey11 (Mar 13, 2019)

Third times the charm...I finally got air! I had to try again. I knew I couldn't leave her like that. Thank you, Jesus! She looks better already. It was like deflating a tire. A little more yellow brown fluid came out at the end. Should I give her antibiotics?


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## Daxigait (Mar 13, 2019)

I don't have any experience with this but penicillin is not a bad thing if you invade at all. I even do it if I have to go in after a kid even if I'm wearing gloves.

Would you please when you have time post what you know about doing the sticking or where you learned that on my thread about sharing what you wish you'd known.  This is something I need to learn.  not only had to do that, but how you recognized it.


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## B&B Happy goats (Mar 13, 2019)

Just feed her hay and water till she is pooping normal again, peanut oil also works for bloating


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## journey11 (Mar 13, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Just feed her hay and water till she is pooping normal again, peanut oil also works for bloating



I took it away for a bit so she wouldn't drink too much, but I'll give her hay and water only when I get back. We had to run to town, but my neighbor's kids are watching her for me until we get back. Thank you all for the replies. I will link that video when I get home.


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## Baymule (Mar 13, 2019)

Whew! You are a wonderful amateur vet! Glad that you were able to let the air out of her and relieve the bloat!


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## journey11 (Mar 13, 2019)

It will be a sleepless night for me worrying about her. She's still not out of the woods yet. I'm on the edge of crying, thinking about her tiny babies. I could feel movement as I was massaging her. We only have the two goats. They are more pets than livestock to us. Haven't been at this long and I hate learning things the hard way. 

Katie is the white doe. Julie on the left is her mom. See how big she is compared to Julie. It's down from what it was though.


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 13, 2019)

You have done a wonderful job! 
I’d be keeping an eye out for overeating disease. How much chicken feed did she eat? 

I really hope she pulls through. So scary. 

We’ve had bloat once, like you we used a needle (14g) to release the gas. It worked great but we ended up losing him to a twisted gut


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## Daxigait (Mar 14, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> You have done a wonderful job!
> I’d be keeping an eye out for overeating disease. How much chicken feed did she eat?
> 
> I really hope she pulls through. So scary.
> ...


So sorry. Do you know what caused the twisted got? How did you recognize that one. I've seen it in horses after collic.


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 14, 2019)

We don’t know what caused it. I do have some ideas but we don’t know for certain.
I’m just saying I’ll never feed chaffhaye again. Soon after this buck died our other bucks and a few does had horrible gut issues. We lost another buck and almost lost some does. Interestingly enough, the farms that had the same lot of chaffhaye had the same issues. 

Everything was normal. He didn’t get into grain and his hay feeder was always full.
He presented with bloat and we treated it/released the gas. We started treating for enterotoxemia but it didn’t seem to “fit”. He died a few hours later. We opened him up and saw the twists. 

Based off of the other goats I do think their was some type of bad bacteria that became toxic- which caused the bloat and twists in the buck.


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## journey11 (Mar 14, 2019)

Katie is lot better today, but still not quite right. We have her at the vet now. She is eating and drinking, but not pooping much and not a lot of burping or the usual bowel sounds. Still very round. She acts like she's uncomfortable and is not wanting to move much or vocal as she normally is. I am hoping the vet can show me how to GI tube her. I should have probably tried that before puncturing the rumen, but I had no idea how.


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## journey11 (Mar 14, 2019)

So sad about the twisted gut. I am reading it is not common, but not much can be done for it either.


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## Daxigait (Mar 14, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> We don’t know what caused it. I do have some ideas but we don’t know for certain.
> I’m just saying I’ll never feed chaffhaye again. Soon after this buck died our other bucks and a few does had horrible gut issues. We lost another buck and almost lost some does. Interestingly enough, the farms that had the same lot of chaffhaye had the same issues.
> 
> Everything was normal. He didn’t get into grain and his hay feeder was always full.
> ...


Sorry 
It amazes me when I talk to new people they say things like that that goats could eat anything.  I try my best to reinforce on them that goats are fragile because we have bred them to very specific things that are not a mountain goat anymore.


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## Goat Whisperer (Mar 14, 2019)

journey11 said:


> Katie is lot better today, but still not quite right. We have her at the vet now. She is eating and drinking, but not pooping much and not a lot of burping or the usual bowel sounds. Still very round. She acts like she's uncomfortable and is not wanting to move much or vocal as she normally is. I am hoping the vet can show me how to GI tube her. I should have probably tried that before puncturing the rumen, but I had no idea how.


Really hoping your doe pulls through! So scary! You don’t think she could’ve gotten into anything else, do you? No plastics bags or twine? 

Keep us updated!


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## Baymule (Mar 14, 2019)

I hope she gets better, can go home and her babies are ok. I have 9 ewes and they are my pets. I get it.


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## journey11 (Mar 14, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Really hoping your doe pulls through! So scary! You don’t think she could’ve gotten into anything else, do you? No plastics bags or twine?
> 
> Keep us updated!



We were all outside working in the garden and the chicken yard for hours while the goats meandered about within view. I did catch her in the chicken feed while I was right there. I didn't think she got much, but you know how fast those little lips can move when they think they've got something good! I have noticed these girls crop grass more like a sheep and don't find much to browse. We let them out on grass every day for a couple hours and this was longer than usual, but I wouldn't say the grass has greened up much yet. I don't know...  Her buddy didn't get in the chicken feed, just her. She has stolen a nibble before.

She had a 104.5 fever at the vet, but it is currently down to 102.7 when I checked her for the night. She is resting easier tonight, breathing softer and getting up and down easier. She eats hay, but is still not pooping very often and it was runny last. From her demeanor tonight, I am optimistic she'll bounce back.

This is what all he sent her home with:

 
They also said Safeguard wasn't working on their worms and gave me 2 doses of Levimesole for both does. I just noticed they didn't charge me for that!


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## babsbag (Mar 15, 2019)

Even after you take care of the bloat she could still have lingering effects of eating too much grain. I have notes from my vet (she taught a class I took) on how to treat a goat for grain overload, which would include eating chicken feed. Their rumen gets acidic when they eat too much grain so the goal is to dilute, buffer, and move the contents out. For a standard sized goat the rumen is about the size of a 5 gallon bucket. So you would use 1/2 cup of baking soda in 2-4 qts of electrolytes (with no glucose or other sugar). Another option is a large bottle of Pepto Bismol and 2-4 qts of electrolytes. Do this for 3-4 days.  Treat with Pen G and probiotics. Heffenweisen beer, warm and flat, actually works faster and better than probiotics. Also give banamine. 

I had a doe get into some Calf Manna and she was one sick girl for about 4 days. 
Hope that your doe makes a full recovery.


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## journey11 (Mar 15, 2019)

babsbag said:


> Even after you take care of the bloat she could still have lingering effects of eating too much grain. I have notes from my vet (she taught a class I took) on how to treat a goat for grain overload, which would include eating chicken feed. Their rumen gets acidic when they eat too much grain so the goal is to dilute, buffer, and move the contents out. For a standard sized goat the rumen is about the size of a 5 gallon bucket. So you would use 1/2 cup of baking soda in 2-4 qts of electrolytes (with no glucose or other sugar). Another option is a large bottle of Pepto Bismol and 2-4 qts of electrolytes. Do this for 3-4 days.  Treat with Pen G and probiotics. Heffenweisen beer, warm and flat, actually works faster and better than probiotics. Also give banamine.
> 
> I had a doe get into some Calf Manna and she was one sick girl for about 4 days.
> Hope that your doe makes a full recovery.


 
A Nigerian would probably be half, two-thirds then maybe? She's looking perkier and less rotund this morning. She had a large bowel movement overnight, mushy, but at least not runny. I had wondered if I should start her on electrolytes.

You guys have been so helpful. Thank you!


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## Baymule (Mar 15, 2019)

Sounds like she is on the mend!


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## babsbag (Mar 15, 2019)

I would definitely treat her with probiotics or the beer. Listen to her rumen and see if you hear anything. You should hear rumen sounds about every 30-45 seconds. It will sound like a toilet flush. Listen to her left side.


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## Wehner Homestead (Mar 15, 2019)

Just logged in for the first time in several days. I agree with babs. She needs probiotics. You can buy powder or boluses at most farm supply stores. The powder you mix with water and give as a drench. The boluses are given with a pill giver that’s most often called a balling gun. These can be bought at the supply store too. 

The oil you gave her will cause her to have loose stools also. 

I have another thought to offer...beet pulp is fairly easy on the gut. I have Nigerians and I’d start her on a small handful twice a day and slowly increase from there. It’ll help get her gut back in action without overloading it. 

I’m glad that she’s doing well! 

I am curious though, how was it that you knew it was gas bloat versus frothy bloat?


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## journey11 (Mar 15, 2019)

Wehner Homestead said:


> I am curious though, how was it that you knew it was gas bloat versus frothy bloat?



She had no froth from her mouth and I knew it was grain she had gotten into. Our grass is not lush or growing yet either. Tapping her side made a hollow drum sound too.

The probiotics the vet gave her are really helping. It is a thick, cheese-like paste. Not sure of the brand. It just said Probiotic Gel on the tube. I was about to go for the beer (like, I need one too after this, ha), but she is very much improved today.

Something else I learned from this is that it is much easier to take a goat for a bumpy ride in the old truck than it is to get them to walk when they don't feel like it!  The vet said motion would help stimulate her gut.

Checked her temp prior to giving her her meds today and it was normal. She is pooping again, though it is not formed yet. I think I felt some strong fetal movements too.


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 15, 2019)

glad to hear she's feeling better!


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## Baymule (Mar 15, 2019)

Yay! She is feeling better!


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## goatboy1973 (Mar 17, 2019)

Glad she is feeling better! I have used a dose of CD&T orally, mineral oil, Probios, and simethicone to get rid of the bloat. At the very last option, I have used a large bore needle as a trocar to immediately remove gas, but this is dangerous even if you know what you are doing.


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## goatboy1973 (Mar 17, 2019)

I guess to add as a follow-up...stay away from a lot of grains and go with alfalfa and black oil sunflower seeds as an alternative and maybe a general all stock feed to mix in. Lots of good quality grass hay and encourage an increase in good fresh clean water by keeping a good loose mineral in front of them at all time. Abrupt changes in diet can cause bloat so any changes in feed need to be done very gradually over a 7-10 day period. I add distilled white vinegar to the water in my stock tank (1 gallon of vinegar to 100 gallons of H2O) and this is a 3 fold solution...the goats and llama love the taste of the water and drink more, the vinegar keeps algae from growing in the water tanks, and the increased acidity can help kill internal parasites like stomach worms and intestinal parasites.


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## journey11 (Mar 20, 2019)

goatboy1973 said:


> I guess to add as a follow-up...stay away from a lot of grains and go with alfalfa and black oil sunflower seeds as an alternative and maybe a general all stock feed to mix in. Lots of good quality grass hay and encourage an increase in good fresh clean water by keeping a good loose mineral in front of them at all time. Abrupt changes in diet can cause bloat so any changes in feed need to be done very gradually over a 7-10 day period. I add distilled white vinegar to the water in my stock tank (1 gallon of vinegar to 100 gallons of H2O) and this is a 3 fold solution...the goats and llama love the taste of the water and drink more, the vinegar keeps algae from growing in the water tanks, and the increased acidity can help kill internal parasites like stomach worms and intestinal parasites.



Thank you for the advice. This is all new to me. I had been top dressing their grain with a tsp of loose minerals and baking soda. I have mixed 12% sweet feed with a goat ration 50/50 and they get one cup of that daily, which was what the folks I bought her from had fed her. They also get a 1/4th cup hulled black sunflower seeds each. I quit giving the grain mix to both over the past week's episode. They both are slimmer than ever, so I think I'll further reduce their ration, just enough to get their minerals in them. I used to put their minerals and baking soda out free choice and they would scratch their butts on the feeder and poop in it! My BIL adds DE to his goats' ration. What are your thoughts on that? He says it helps with worms.


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## journey11 (Mar 20, 2019)

Just to update on Katie's condition after our scary episode of shock yesterday: she is perky today and out grazing, but she has had a touch of an upper respiratory infection since the bloat. I think she aspirated a little of the Therabloat when the vet dosed her because she coughed a lot after. Yesterday, before she had shock, I noted one of her eyes also watering and she has had a bit of a runny nose all along. Today is about the same. Her lungs sound clear though. Should I worry? I am really afraid to give her any more shots until I can get some epinephrine (the vet was currently out). As well as she looks, I also declined to give her the Banamine and Thiamine he sent me home with yesterday. I am so determined to see her get better! I am very nervous of how fragile she might now be though.

This is my little Lazarus trotting around 2 hours after the EpiPen injections yesterday...


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## Animal lover 345 (Mar 20, 2019)

Oh no that's tereble that she has bloat is she any better ? Hay is definitely good when we had goats we had a 3 legged goat and she was pregnant with twins!! she had a little of bloat and we were soooo scared we also gave here a little garlic in her hay and i think that helped but don't try any thing till you look it up on the internet . I hope she gets better  how long untill she is dew ?


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## journey11 (Mar 20, 2019)

Animal lover 345 said:


> Oh no that's tereble that she has bloat is she any better ? Hay is definitely good when we had goats we had a 3 legged goat and she was pregnant with twins!! she had a little of bloat and we were soooo scared we also gave here a little garlic in her hay and i think that helped but don't try any thing till you look it up on the internet . I hope she gets better  how long untill she is dew ?



We did finally get her over the bloat and her poops are normal again. Now we are still dealing with the aftermath. The vet thought her gut biome being off probably contributed to her allergic reaction to the antibiotics. 

She is supposed to kid in mid-May, if everything works out. We've been super excited for our first kids. I sure hope they are faring well after all of this. It is a wonder to me that she has not lost them, she has been through so much.

Katie is 11 and Julie, her mom, is 13. I just want to give them a good life and lots of love. I hate that they have had to deal with my mistakes and such a steep learning curve.  I read Story's Guide to dairy goats before I got them. It is not the same as figuring out things first hand though.


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