# J clip pliers are the devil (vent)



## AClark (Aug 10, 2016)

At least the cheap ones are. I put together a cage yesterday and have a huge blister in the webbing between my thumb and index finger - and still have more to finish on it and make another today. I'm dreading it, my left hand is so sore and swollen that my wedding ring is almost welded on, and normally it's loose. My right hand is totally normal, but being that i'm a lefty and no part ambidextrous, I can't just switch.

I managed to cut a new wood nesting box and the sides even matched up and it all nailed together - which is great for me, I'm a sucky carpenter. Going to try to knock 1 more out today and get some kind of framing up for the cages, I'm out of floor real estate. I figured about 3/4 of the way through the first box that the blade on the circular saw was dull and that's why it took an act of God to get it through some thin plywood. Then hubby, who is at work, tells me to use the OTHER dewalt, the plug in one and not the battery, it has a good blade...good, thanks for letting me know now that I'm done! 
Found the easiest way was to take my metal nesting box and outline it on ply wood, it worked better than I expected. Normally if I outline stuff, it doesn't come out right.
Glad my 12 year old son is being helpful, now if he could follow simple directions we could be done in half the time! Simple things like "hey don't let that slide" and "stop pushing on that, my hand is under it" or "Move your fingers away from that nail i'm pounding in case I miss" seem to be difficult, lol. 

How's everyone elses projects going today? I'm about to go carpe diem this stuff!


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## AClark (Aug 10, 2016)

Break time, nice and cool today but so humid it might as well be 105. Today's adventure, drilling and the dying batteries. I did break out the plug in saw, yeah that works a lot better, but while drilling pilot holes, drill quit, and other battery is dead. So I'm waiting on those. 
I can't wait to see how my frame comes out...I don't have very high hopes for it to be square, but it might possibly be functional. Hubby has been working ridiculously long hours lately so I feel bad asking him to do it, even though I know it would be perfect. Maybe I should have paid more attention in woodshop class 14 years ago.


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## greybeard (Aug 10, 2016)

My current projects are staying inside where the air conditioning is and it's working great!

A few tips about building things from wood...
Like figuring your monthly expenses, always use a sharp pencil--- when tracing something out. Using a dull wide lead pencil tends to 'grow' the width of each successive part when you go to saw it, and if you use a different part for a pattern each time, the widths can vary a lot. All on account of the width of a pencil lead.

If you're going to make more than one of any item, cut all the individual pieces at the same time. Cut all the ends, then cut all the sides, then all the bottoms etc. Don't cut one end, then a side, then a bottom if you are going to need a dozen of each to finish the whole project. It's fine to make "the first article" to check fit, but after that, go into production mode.

For home wood hobbyists, the best bang for any dollar spent is a small table saw. They are pretty dang cheap nowadays, and you'll throw that skillsaw away after using a table saw a couple times. $200 or less will get you a brand new one, and that may sound expensive, but like everything else farm related, you have to balance that initial outlay against the years of use you will get from it. You can also pick one up at yard sales and reputable resale shops.

I have an older contractor model, but I got tired of dragging the thing out on it's little stand, so I mounted it in a rollaway table that doubles as a work bench and router table. I put a fold down flap on the back, so I don't need anyone standing there to 'catch' the part when they get cut.
When I get done, I just roll the whole table over against the wall out of my way. (my shop is only 16' x16' so I need to be able to drive my tractor in if I have to work on it, even with a table mounted saw.)
I may find a picture of it later.

A radial arm saw is also handy, but more expensive and generally limits the size you can cut to whatever length travel the arm is. I have a good one, and there is a way to rip long pieces along the fence with a RA Saw, but I find it a bit un-nerving if not dangerous.

Safety--safety--safety--I can't repeat it enough. Blades don't one bit care either way whether or even if  they are cutting pine, oak, flesh or bone. The term "unforgiving" comes to mind.


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## chiques chicks (Aug 10, 2016)

J-clips. The premium pliers help, far better than the stamped steel version. Better still, ring pliers that take strips of rings, far faster for production mode and easier to cut off after the inevitable mistake.

Cutting all like pieces of wood at once, clamped together helps insure they are all the same size. For frames I like a cutoff saw I clamp on stops to create a jig.


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## AClark (Aug 10, 2016)

@greybeard we have a large Dewalt table saw, it's set up in the garage but I have never used one , it does too many things for me to want to figure it out without being shown, tilts and all that. I'm just not comfortable with it since I've never used it and would like supervision and a walk through first. I watched my husband shoot a piece of pine across the garage with it once though, so that was enough of a reminder that maybe I wasn't ready to play with the big boy toys. You're right, it is a pain to move, but since we can't fit our trucks in our small garage (they wont' fit through the door) it has a nice permanent place. It's not that bad working in the garage, it's only 90 today, but with 60% humidity that I'm not used to, it gets uncomfortable quick. 
 I'm definitely aware of the danger of saws and keep all fingers and long hair away from them. I'm pretty careful, I like my fingers, they're pretty useful most of the time.

Thanks for the tips on cutting things out. Where I ran into a problem yesterday was I failed to mark the pieces on what they were, so I had some confusion on the back and the top (the sides were interchangeable so I couldn't fail there!)  It's a learning experience. Luckily I only need to make 1 more so with what I know now, it should be easier...or not, lol. 
Hubby looked at my frame and the comment was "it's ok for someone who hasn't done it before" I laughed and said "that's like eating someone's cooking that's really bad just to not be rude". No hard feelings; this is why the wood projects are usually his, and the welding projects are mine! He did mention that it wasn't unfixable and just needed some braces though. I feel slightly accomplished, all 4 legs sit on the floor!

I'm definitely going to have to invest in better j-pliers. My hand is so wrecked between them and the tin snips that I'm not even going to get to the other cage today. I also hate j clips (oh, you missed that second wire, let's spend 10 minutes prying your mistake off) so I'll look into ring pliers and rings. I saw on Youtube someone using an angle grinder to cut the wire, so I might give that a shot next to save on my hands.


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## greybeard (Aug 10, 2016)

The fold down flap is down in this picture--behind the table. It actually takes up very little room--the original table the saw came with had angled out wide based legs that probably created about the same front to back footprint as above--only the width was increased here, but I was able to get rid of a work bench in the process.



> Hubby looked at my frame and the comment was "it's ok for someone who hasn't done it before" I laughed and said "that's like eating someone's cooking that's really bad just to not be rude".


Reminds me of the eternal question asked by wives thru out the ages. "How do you like my new outfit--does it make me look bigger?"
Any man that claims he has always answered that question honestly has just told his 2nd lie regarding the same question.
There's only one acceptable answer to that question, and being I am now 66 yrs old, I can honestly state that I learned it decades ago.
"Since you're already dressed, lets go out somewhere nice to eat and then shopping for you some more nice things"


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## babsbag (Aug 10, 2016)

Angel grinders to cut wire is the only way to go, but make sure you wear eye protection. Almost all of our tools these days are cordless, and the cordless grinder was the BEST addition in a long long time. Second best is a 6" cordless circular saw. It is light weight and has amazing torque to it. It doesn't rip 2x stock very well but does awesome on the crosscuts and cutting plywood. I have gradually made friends with the table saw but spent many hours with a radial arm saw first. But like @greybeard said, radial arm saws may crosscut but their ripping abilities are a tad cumbersome; hence the reason I learned to use the table saw. Respect....lots of it. 

I wish you lived closer....I could do the wood stuff and you teach me to weld.


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## AClark (Aug 10, 2016)

That is really neat, I like that it's portable. Ours is portable, but it's too heavy for me to lift by myself. We end up doing most projects in the garage anyway. How long did it take you to make all of that? Heck, if you put bigger wheels on it, you could even drag it out for field application to build on site rather than dragging material from one side of Gods green earth to the other. 

I'm stalled on it for now, he thinks we can make it fit 3 cages instead of the 2 I planned on, but is still at work so I will wait to fire on that until he determines that. It would work out better for me that way to have an extra for a grow out! The Army and it's long hours are getting in the way of our hobby projects, lol.


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## AClark (Aug 10, 2016)

That's exactly what we have, same brand as everything else so the batteries are interchangeable. Hubby bought the whole set, a reciprocal saw, angle grinder, circular saw, drill, and a little impact drill thing all together a long time back. I think the only thing I used the angle grinder for (battery operated) was to rip through a T post, and boy it will do it with a full charged battery.


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## babsbag (Aug 10, 2016)

Ours are all Makitas and we always buy the same brand so the batteries and chargers work.  My next addition will be an angle drill.   I have corded tools too, just in case but other than the corded circular saw I seldom use them. I had to build a sloped floor in the dairy and needed to rip some 2x4's for bracing under a sloped drain and the battery one just couldn't rip 12' of 2x4. I didn't want to use the table saw as the boards went for 3" to 0" in 12' so I freehanded it with the circular saw; easier to get that angled cut.


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## greybeard (Aug 11, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Ours are all Makitas and we always buy the same brand so the batteries and chargers work.  My next addition will be an angle drill.   I have corded tools too, just in case but other than the corded circular saw I seldom use them. I had to build a sloped floor in the dairy and needed to rip some 2x4's for bracing under a sloped drain and the battery one just couldn't rip 12' of 2x4. I didn't want to use the table saw as the boards went for 3" to 0" in 12' so I freehanded it with the circular saw; easier to get that angled cut.


That would be a 1.193° angle. Angle fences are usually calibrated in 2°.  Set your adjustable fence at 2° and I bet it would be close enough.


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## babsbag (Aug 11, 2016)

If there is an angle fence in my DH's shed I have never seen it. He buys the tools and then I end up learning how to use them. Now I have to go in search of this adjustable fence, that would be so handy to have on hand. I didn't know there was such a thing.


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## AClark (Aug 11, 2016)

So what exactly does that do? Is it like a protractor that measures the angle? I looked at pictures but I don't get it (but I know we have one now, lol). 

Makita's are nice. We have some corded tools but those are mostly mine - when hubby and I got married, he had all kinds of wood/household tools, and I had a huge toolbox full of automotive goodies. So between us, we have one of pretty much everything. Except a kreg jig, those are too expensive for me to justify.


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## babsbag (Aug 11, 2016)

I bought a Kreg jig for pocket holes as I was going to build a curio cabinet. Now to find the time to do that. 

The adjustable rip fence would allow you to rip boards with an angle. So lets say your nesting boxes wanted a nice sloped side you could figure out that angle and set the fence accordingly and rip them all to match.  I understand the concept but have never seen one in person but it would be a great thing to add to my arsenal. I always do angled cuts with the circular saw. Now that have all of my sloped floors done I find out about this accessory.


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## AClark (Aug 11, 2016)

Oh cool, I did an angle on my boxes, but I had it drawn out and ripped it out with a circular saw. Not as easy since I realized after the first long cut at an angle that I had to re-approach from the side because circular saws don't turn! I think a jigsaw might have been a good investment for this kind of thing! Those things are pretty awesome.


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