# Kid Concerns



## bethh (Apr 19, 2019)

Hey,

I have a question/concern about our kids, Dixie and Tipsy.   They will be 4 weeks on Sunday.  They get 3 bottles a day.   They aren’t interested in the Timothy hay, pellets or minerals that I have for them. 

Tipsy has the white tail so often I see staining from wet poop.  When I was just down there feeding them, I noticed that Dixie appeared to have white, thick discharge.  I tried to get a picture of it but couldn’t hold her and take the picture.  Once my hubby is home, I’ll try again if there is more there.  Also, Tipsy sneezes a lot when she eats.  I don’t notice it other times.  

Is this normal for 4 week old kids— liquidy poop and the white discharge (I’ve only seen this the one time).  But Gracie and Chewy are very good at keeping them cleaned up. 

Should I be concerned that they aren’t eat the pellets, minerals and hay?   Will they when they are ready?

These are my first goats.   Thanks for any and all help.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 19, 2019)

No, runny poo is not normal. They may be getting too much by bottle.
You said you are feeding 3x day. How much in the bottle? What are you giving them by bottle?

The sneezing may be from taking too fast. Sometimes they won't be interested in hay, feed til they need to start transitioning.

If it looks mucous like it could be from the milk or could be coccidia.
Are they on prevention?


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## bethh (Apr 19, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> No, runny poo is not normal. They may be getting too much by bottle.
> You said you are feeding 3x day. How much in the bottle? What are you giving them by bottle?
> 
> The sneezing may be from taking too fast. Sometimes they won't be interested in hay, feed til they need to start transitioning.
> ...



They get 8oz 3 times a day.  They just finished a round of dimethox plus probiotics.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 19, 2019)

what milk... cow, formula, a mixture?


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## bethh (Apr 19, 2019)

Organic cow’s milk, not sure if the organic part mattered


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## Southern by choice (Apr 19, 2019)

Is it pasteurized? Raw?


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## bethh (Apr 19, 2019)

Pasteurized


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## Southern by choice (Apr 19, 2019)

hmmm, it really should be a normal amount of milk so that is unusual.
how many days has it been like this?


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## bethh (Apr 20, 2019)

I’ve never seen the pellets that goats have.   I haven’t seen them poop and the dogs are great about cleaning them.  I guess it’s been 3 days that I’ve noticed the staining on Tipsy.  I really thought liquid going on, liquid/soft coming out.  But wanted to make sure I was right.  They are bouncing around playful.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 20, 2019)

They should have pelleted poo. I recommend getting some powdered goat probiotics and putting it in their bottle.
You can try some chopped hay- This is very good stuff... pricey but good.

https://ateraknutrition.com/products-and-services
Metabolic Miracle


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## bethh (Apr 20, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> They should have pelleted poo. I recommend getting some powdered goat probiotics and putting it in their bottle.
> You can try some chopped hay- This is very good stuff... pricey but good.
> 
> https://ateraknutrition.com/products-and-services
> ...


Thanks.  Looks like finding this product may require some extensive search.  Thanks for all the help.


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## bethh (Apr 23, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> They should have pelleted poo. I recommend getting some powdered goat probiotics and putting it in their bottle.
> You can try some chopped hay- This is very good stuff... pricey but good.
> 
> https://ateraknutrition.com/products-and-services
> ...



Here’s my update—-

Brought poop sample to vet and it was clear.  No parasites.   I spoke with Allie at Aterak Nutrition and she recommended
Duration because of the girls ages.   I’ve ordered it.  Vet tech said to try a goat milk supplement to see if that helps the poop and I could start weaning them.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 23, 2019)

bethh said:


> Here’s my update—-
> 
> Brought poop sample to vet and it was clear.  No parasites.   I spoke with Allie at Aterak Nutrition and she recommended
> Duration because of the girls ages.   I’ve ordered it.  Vet tech said to try a goat milk supplement to see if that helps the poop and I could start weaning them.


They absolutely cannot be weaned at 4 weeks of age. If anything I would try just regular whole cows milk. I know you are using organic. There are hormones or antibiotuics in the whole milk but it is fortified with Vitamin D and A I think.

Is this a goat vet and did they look for coccidia? I doubt the kid has any, just wondering.
The formula will make it worse.

How much do they weigh?


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## bethh (Apr 23, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> They absolutely cannot be weaned at 4 weeks of age. If anything I would try just regular whole cows milk. I know you are using organic. There are hormones or antibiotuics in the whole milk but it is fortified with Vitamin D and A I think.
> 
> Is this a goat vet and did they look for coccidia? I doubt the kid has any, just wondering.
> The formula will make it worse.
> ...


They weigh 8.4lbs.  I’m not going to wean them.   They said nothing showed up and since they treat goats, I figured they covered everything.   I also spoke to another goat vet and she recommended changing to goat milk replacer because she said that some goats can’t tolerate cows milk.   They have been drinking whole cows milk.  She also suggested giving them some electrolytes.   I will keep an eye on them and if no improvement take them in.


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## bethh (Apr 23, 2019)

@Southern by choice, do you normally let your does raise their babies or so you bottle feed them?


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## Southern by choice (Apr 23, 2019)

We bottle feed. Of course we are using the goats milk from their dams, but we always transition to whole cows milk when they are going to a home that doesn't already have goats milk. We have found it is better on the goats than any formula. 
Of course you can try it, maybe it will work for you. Most goat breeders use cows milk instead or replacer because replacers seem great for sheep but for some reason it is usually a fail for kids. IDK.
It's worth a try.
Did the kids get colostrum from their dam?

The reason I recommended the Metabolic Miracle is because it has all the best nutrients for the kids. The Duration doesn't.
All those vitamins- they need all those, which the other does not have. The vitamins, the zinc, the copper, selenium. the proper calcium to phosphorus ratio.
You only want to put a handful in a bowl and let them start nibbling then after really doing well and you have them eating hay you can keep this as a supplement given everyday (like a treat)
At that point you could have just gotten chopped hay from TSC. 
We use the Metabolic Miracle for our baby goats. They start nibbling at 2 weeks.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 23, 2019)

What breed are these goats?   I forgot what bethh has.  Did they get their CDT shots yet? 

We bottle fed all our kids because we were on a strict CAE prevention and testing program.  The goat kids' poop was very soft (but not diahrea) _until_ they were eating hay.   Is the white discharge mucuous?   After the first weeks their stool solidified a bit, but they never made goat raisins until they were on hay.  The rumen doesn't work until the  kids are on solid food - roughage - they are only using their miIk stomachs until this point.  Once they are on hay their stool should normalize but they need to start nibbling hay now.  Chopped hay is a good idea (per Southern) and will be palatable to tiny soft mouths.  They won't nibble hay until their stomachs are empty and tell them to do so.  That is why you should stop the midday bottle.  I suggest increasing their bottles to 10-12 oz. in the am and pm, and do away with the midday bottle.  That way they will be hungry and will start nibbling at the hay.

We used to put our standard dairy goat kids on 2 bottles a day around 4 weeks.  We would gradually increase to 1 quart milk am and pm.  By 3 weeks they were on 10 kid bucket feeders.  Without a midday bottle they start to eat hay more easily.  We did not feed grain or pellets.  We used pasteurized goat milk, but when they were drinking 1 quart 2x a day apiece we would start cutting the goat milk with regular calf replacer. 

We had high yield milkers, but they routinely had triplets and quads (Nubians) and twins from the FFs.  We needed at least a gallon or so of the milk for ourselves am and pm.  Goat replacer was too expensive for 50 to100 kids, so we cut the goat milk with regular calf replacer.  It worked fine for us.  We sent the buck kids to market at 2 months old.  We did not disbud or castrate because our ethnic buyers wanted them that way.  After the bucks left, we had more goat milk for the doe kids.  We used to wean completely at 4 months which was when we brought our veal calves in.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 23, 2019)

@Ridgetop  these are 4 wk old 8 # Nigerians. I would not recommend skipping the mid day bottle because they are already small.
Our ND's at two weeks bottle fed kids here are eating chopped hay and we provide feed as well, Nigies are always the first eart everything LOL Even over our lamanchas.


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## bethh (Apr 23, 2019)

Southern by choice said:


> We bottle feed. Of course we are using the goats milk from their dams, but we always transition to whole cows milk when they are going to a home that doesn't already have goats milk. We have found it is better on the goats than any formula.
> Of course you can try it, maybe it will work for you. Most goat breeders use cows milk instead or replacer because replacers seem great for sheep but for some reason it is usually a fail for kids. IDK.
> It's worth a try.
> Did the kids get colostrum from their dam?
> ...



I contacted them to purchase the metabolic miracle but after talking to her she said I needed the duration.  I didn’t have enough information as to why so I went with what she recommended.   I hope it’s helpful for them.  It cost $30 to ship it to me.   It’ll be here in a few days.  They received colostrum from their mom when they were first born after that cow’s milk.  I guess I’ll order the metabolic miracle also.


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## bethh (Apr 23, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> What breed are these goats?   I forgot what bethh has.  Did they get their CDT shots yet?
> 
> We bottle fed all our kids because we were on a strict CAE prevention and testing program.  The goat kids' poop was very soft (but not diahrea) _until_ they were eating hay.   Is the white discharge mucuous?   After the first weeks their stool solidified a bit, but they never made goat raisins until they were on hay.  The rumen doesn't work until the  kids are on solid food - roughage - they are only using their miIk stomachs until this point.  Once they are on hay their stool should normalize but they need to start nibbling hay now.  Chopped hay is a good idea (per Southern) and will be palatable to tiny soft mouths.  They won't nibble hay until their stomachs are empty and tell them to do so.  That is why you should stop the midday bottle.  I suggest increasing their bottles to 10-12 oz. in the am and pm, and do away with the midday bottle.  That way they will be hungry and will start nibbling at the hay.
> 
> ...


Why do you ask about white mucous?   I have noticed some, not a lot.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 23, 2019)

bethh said:


> I contacted them to purchase the metabolic miracle but after talking to her she said I needed the duration.  I didn’t have enough information as to why so I went with what she recommended.   I hope it’s helpful for them.  It cost $30 to ship it to me.   It’ll be here in a few days.  They received colostrum from their mom when they were first born after that cow’s milk.  I guess I’ll order the metabolic miracle also.



By the time they finish that they will be on feed and hay. Ugh $30 shipping. Yeah, horse people don't know goats.

I won't speak for ridgetop but sometimes mucous can be a sign of too much milk and having issues with the lining... at what (how much and how often IOW) you are feeding this shouldn't be the cause.


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## bethh (Apr 23, 2019)

These are all the things I have for them.   The milk carton is what I was giving.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 23, 2019)

All of those things are fine.   I do know many say the land o lakes milk replacer is better but you haven't been using that anyway.


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## bethh (Apr 23, 2019)

I forgot to include the electrolytes.  I will just have to give them a few days and see.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 23, 2019)

Why did the vet think they needed electrolytes?
How are you giving it? Replacing a milk bottle or....?


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## bethh (Apr 23, 2019)

She thought it wouldn't hurt since the poop is runny in case they are loosing too much fluids.  Its in addition to their bottles.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 23, 2019)

bethh said:


> Tipsy has the white tail so often I see staining from wet poop. When I was just down there feeding them, I noticed that Dixie appeared to have white, thick discharge.



Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought bethh said they were passing white mucus in their stool.  If they are tiny, yes keep them on 3 bottles.  If they are drinking all that milk, why do they need electrolytes?  If they are on a good quality replacer it should have minerals in it so no need for extra minerals.  Probios are good for an upset stomach.  You can also give a little kaopectate.

Can you get any alfalfa hay?  We are west coast so the most common hay we have here is alfalfa.  Our kids and lambs begin mouthing it at several weeks and love it.  But definitely try giving them chopped hay.  It has the benefit of no waste, so the difference in price for feeding babies would be negligible.  If they are bouncing and playful, they sound healthy.  I would weigh them every week to make sure they are gaining.  Maybe they are just slow to eat the hay because they are full of milk.  Are they in a pen that is near the older does where they can see them eating?  If so, move the does' feeder of hay near the fence where the babies are penned so that they can watch the does eating.  Maybe it will give them the idea.  Our lambs started nibbling hay before our goat kids of the same age, probably because the ewes are eating that stuff with enjoyment.  The lambs nibble to see what it is.


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## Carnivore CarryOut (Apr 24, 2019)

GIving probiotics changes the gut PH She said above she was putting them in their bottles. That could be your issue. Please try to find out what is causing the runs instead of adding more to it. Go back to basics and see if they get normal stools again.


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## bethh (Apr 24, 2019)

Carnivore CarryOut said:


> GIving probiotics changes the gut PH She said above she was putting them in their bottles. That could be your issue. Please try to find out what is causing the runs instead of adding more to it. Go back to basics and see if they get normal stools again.


Alright, to catch you up, they’ve not had normal poop since I got them.  Always runny, soft.  Not water that I’ve seen.  They did a course of dimethox as advised by the breeder form April 11-15 with probiotics.  Once the dimethox was complete, I continued the probiotics to help build good flora in their system.  Probiotics shouldn’t cause stomach issues or runny poop.


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## bethh (Apr 24, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> Sorry, I misunderstood, I thought bethh said they were passing white mucus in their stool.  If they are tiny, yes keep them on 3 bottles.  If they are drinking all that milk, why do they need electrolytes?  If they are on a good quality replacer it should have minerals in it so no need for extra minerals.  Probios are good for an upset stomach.  You can also give a little kaopectate.
> 
> Can you get any alfalfa hay?  We are west coast so the most common hay we have here is alfalfa.  Our kids and lambs begin mouthing it at several weeks and love it.  But definitely try giving them chopped hay.  It has the benefit of no waste, so the difference in price for feeding babies would be negligible.  If they are bouncing and playful, they sound healthy.  I would weigh them every week to make sure they are gaining.  Maybe they are just slow to eat the hay because they are full of milk.  Are they in a pen that is near the older does where they can see them eating?  If so, move the does' feeder of hay near the fence where the babies are penned so that they can watch the does eating.  Maybe it will give them the idea.  Our lambs started nibbling hay before our goat kids of the same age, probably because the ewes are eating that stuff with enjoyment.  The lambs nibble to see what it is.


I have alfalfa for them.  They don’t have any adults to learn from.  They are our first goats.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 26, 2019)

How long have you had them?  What age were they when you got them?  Did the breeder give you some of the milk, formula, etc. he/she was feeding so you could transition to the milk you are using?  I agree with carnivore that you should go back to the beginning and start over with feeding.  You seem to have a lot of additives you are putting in their milk.  Where does the breeder live?  Is he/she close enough you can buy goat milk from her?  If you can obtain fresh pasteurized goat milk, I would take them off everything except the goat milk.  If not, you will have to keep them on whatever milk you have, however, I would dilute the milk with water for a couple days.  This will cut the richness of the milk, making it easier for the babies to assimilate it.  Then gradually increase the milk and decrease the water.  This is what we used to do with calves if they started to scour.


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## bethh (May 29, 2019)

Sorry that I haven’t updated in awhile.  Let me catch y’all up.  I took poop in for a culture.  No parasites found. I had been feeding them cow’s milk and giving probiotics.  They had a treatment of dimox as advised by the breeder.  

The vet recommended taking them off cow’s milk and giving them goat replacer.   That’s what they are still taking.  They have normal goat poop.  I have seen them eating their food and hay.  They are still getting 2 bottles a day.  They are 2 months old.  I think I’m supposed to cut them down to one bottle soon.  I can’t remember when that is.  

They are happy, crazy kids.  Thanks for checking in on them.


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