# Day 173 and NOTHING



## sawfish99 (Apr 4, 2012)

We have a doe (Oberhasli) that is on Day 154 and still hasn't really bagged up.  She is only the second in our herd of 5 to kid for the season, so it's not like I have a ton of experience.  She is a 3yo and I believe this is her 3rd freshening (at least second).  Her ligaments are softening, but not gone.  We are confident on the breeding dates.

What's the latest you have had one kid?


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## poorboys (Apr 4, 2012)

i had a ff last year kid on day 160. good luck


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## sawfish99 (Apr 6, 2012)

Day 156 is coming to a close and still no increase in udder size.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 8, 2012)

Day 158 ends without kids.


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## Blue Dog Farms (Apr 9, 2012)




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## that's*satyrical (Apr 9, 2012)

Sure she's pregnant? lol


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## AdoptAPitBull (Apr 9, 2012)

Maybe she wanted to be like the others and just put on a few pounds for ya


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## sawfish99 (Apr 9, 2012)

I am pretty sure she is pregnant.  She was the only doe that settled on the first breeding.  Her udder is a little bigger than a month ago, but not huge.  I am positive this is her second freshening, but think it is actually her 3rd (she is 3).  

Oh, and I have clearly felt kids moving and kicking.

I'm not even bothering with locking her in the kidding stall.  She is a fairly dominant doe, so she gets her place in the shelter when she wants it.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 9, 2012)

What is the latest you have had a doe kid?  160 is the highest number I have seen.  We are on day 159...


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## AdoptAPitBull (Apr 9, 2012)

If she doesn't go by tomorrow, I'd call and have a vet check. Maybe there's a problem and that's why she's not freshening.


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## Jenni (Apr 9, 2012)

Lily was due mar 26 (says her breeder) she may have been off a couple days.  She just lost her ligs.  So if the 26th was right it would put her at 164, so I'm guessing she is probably around 160 days. I keep thinking I should get her looked at, but she acted completely normal, so I waited, and sure enough the ligs are gone.  Good luck.  Don't let her make you too crazy!


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## sawfish99 (Apr 9, 2012)

Day 159 ending, and still no kids.  I have triple checked the breeding date (and she was never exposed to a buck other than that breeding).  Her weight by weight tape before breeding was 135.  Today it is 175 and she is 52" around the abdomen.  I still think she is pregnant.


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## Blue Dog Farms (Apr 9, 2012)

Do you feel any baby movement?


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## sawfish99 (Apr 9, 2012)

Yes. I talked to our vet today. She said as long as the die is acting normal and not running a fever, just wait. If no kids in a week, we will ultrasound.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 10, 2012)

Day 160 and no kids.  I called the previous owner and found out that she did the same thing last year.  In fact, they had the vet out and all decided she wasn't pregnant but didn't do an ultrasound (and this is a serious show family).  They decided to put her out in a different pasture away from the main herd.  3 days later she kidded.  He didn't remember exactly how overdue she was, but did remember that she never bagged up and didn't show any signs before the kids arrived.

I did still feel kids moving around tonight.


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 11, 2012)

Do you have bottle feeding supplies available and emergency milk?  colostrum?


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## sawfish99 (Apr 11, 2012)

Yes.  Even though she went long, she did fine with the kidding last year.


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 11, 2012)

sawfish99 said:
			
		

> Yes.  Even though she went long, she did fine with the kidding last year.


You said she never bagged up, Did the seller say she was able to nurse her kids right away or did they have to supplement them. I had a doe that didn't bag up until 3 days after she kidded. and she did this every time she kidded. We had to put the kids on bottles until her milk came in. Just wondering if you are assuming the mom had enough milk right away or if the seller actually told you that she was able to care for her kids on her own.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 11, 2012)

He didn't say one way or the other, however, she is a big producer, so my guess is she could start bagging up a few hours before kidding. Either way, I am ready to go with supplies.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 12, 2012)

Day 162 coming to an end.  I think maybe I just have a fat goat.  If there are no kids by Monday, I'm going to have the vet come ultrasound.


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## GLENMAR (Apr 12, 2012)




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## SarahFair (Apr 13, 2012)

My ober mix doesnt bag up till she softens up. She also likes to run late


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 13, 2012)




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## sawfish99 (Apr 16, 2012)

Today is 166.  Still no kids.  I think we have decided not to bother having the vet out unless she starts to act unusual or run a high temp.  We have decided to start cutting back her grain and give her a few more days before we cut it out completely.  I just don't know.  She still looks pregnant and is 40lbs heavier than the fall, but no real udder building.


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## AdoptAPitBull (Apr 16, 2012)

When you said you felt kids moving, were you feeling her right or her left side? If you felt her left side, that was her rumen moving. And if she's just a big girl with no babies, feeling her right side could also be her rumen.

Did you get a positive blood test? I'm inclined to say that she's not pregnant. But, really,


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## sawfish99 (Apr 16, 2012)

AdoptAPitBull said:
			
		

> When you said you felt kids moving, were you feeling her right or her left side? If you felt her left side, that was her rumen moving. And if she's just a big girl with no babies, feeling her right side could also be her rumen.
> 
> Did you get a positive blood test? I'm inclined to say that she's not pregnant. But, really,


Right side, and she hasn't been a big girl in the past.  In the fall prior to breeding she was about 135 lbs.  Her weight gain has been consistent with our other pregnant does.  She was in milk until early Feb when we dried her off in prep for kidding.  Her udder got smaller and then had a slight build.  I did check and there is some milk in the teats, but her udder hasn't really built back up.

We never bothered with a blood test, but when the vet examined her in Jan, she agreed the doe looked pregnant.

It isn't a crisis if she doesn't kid, just disappointing.  I'm just baffled because there are so many conflicting indicators.


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## SassyKat6181 (Apr 18, 2012)

are we at day 168?    i've been following this thread, anxiously awaiting news and pics!


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## sawfish99 (Apr 18, 2012)

SassyKat6181 said:
			
		

> are we at day 168?    i've been following this thread, anxiously awaiting news and pics!


Yes, today was 168.  Here are 2 pictures:










I have discussed the situation with the vet again (she called me to follow up).  She has a theory about why the doe hasn't kidded.  There are some animals that are capable of storing sperm for an extended period of time and then getting pregnant.  For example chickens which can still be fertile 30 days after being with a rooster.  While that isn't common for a goat, my vet has a suspicion that may be what is occurring with this doe since this is 2 years in a row.  And I am positive she was not exposed to a buck except on Nov 2.  Based on the theory, Saturday will be day 171 and would have correlated to the next heat cycle.  

Time will tell.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 19, 2012)

Day 169 and no kids.  Talked to the vet today and decided not to have her come do an exam.  Maggie isn't running a fever and is acting normal. We are planning to cut her grain completely by early next week if there are no kids.


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## hcppam (Apr 19, 2012)




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## babsbag (Apr 20, 2012)

Can't your vet do an ultrasound? My vet does them after 30 days bred and can tell if the doe is pregnant.


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 20, 2012)

I would think an ultrasound would answer your question. 

But, based on the photo, I think she is open and has a percoscious udder(sorry not sure on the spelling on that). Just my unprofessional opinion.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 20, 2012)

Yes, the vet can ultrasound.  We have had her do an ultrasound on a different doe.  However, there is a pure business side of this in my mind.  An ultrasound will only tell me she is or is not pregnant.  Waiting and letting nature run it's course will give me the same answer.  She isn't running a temp and is acting normal.  So if there are no kids this weekend, she goes into a different pen and stops getting grain.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 20, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I would think an ultrasound would answer your question.
> 
> But, based on the photo, I think she is open and has a percoscious udder(sorry not sure on the spelling on that). Just my unprofessional opinion.


My wife agrees with you that she is open.  I think the small amount of milk is just left from when she was in milk.  We only dried her out in early Feb.


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 20, 2012)

sawfish99 said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
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If that is the case, I think she is for sure open. I am basing my opinion on the pooch test(looking at her vulva). She is showing no signs of being bred.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 20, 2012)

Big news!  I just went out to check her for the night and she has discharge from her vulva!  Her temp has actually dropped some and is only 101.8.  I'm still betting on kids!


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## Missy (Apr 21, 2012)




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## AdoptAPitBull (Apr 23, 2012)

Anything???


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## sawfish99 (Apr 23, 2012)

No progress.  I was pretty sure what I saw on Friday was the mucus plug.  Unfortunately, none of the other typical signs have followed.  I just came in from checking her and as Day 173 ends, nothing.  I guess I just have a FAT doe - she is 175-180lbs right now.  I'm still giving her just a handful of grain to get her on the stand and check her over.  I think she moves into a diferent pen later this week with 2 doelings.


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## manybirds (Apr 23, 2012)

she looks prego but i guess looks can be decieving


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## sawfish99 (Apr 23, 2012)

Her looks are the problem.  She looks due almost any day, but she as at 173.  And there is no increase in udder size.


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## manybirds (Apr 24, 2012)

sawfish99 said:
			
		

> Her looks are the problem.  She looks due almost any day, but she as at 173.  And there is no increase in udder size.


u POSITIVE u got the dates down right? i did that once, i had a doe i thought was due in march, she was weeks 'overdue' i punched her bred date into the kidding calculator (so much easier than counting days) and turned out she wasn't due till april!


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## sawfish99 (Apr 24, 2012)

manybirds said:
			
		

> sawfish99 said:
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Positive.  She was bred on Nov 2nd.  Verified in my records (2 different locations) and on the service memo.


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## Pearce Pastures (Apr 26, 2012)

Please don't be mad at me but if she is 25 days past due, it seems like she is not likely pregnant.  If she was and has retained fetuses somehow without aborting, I would be concerned for her health.  This has got be exasperating to you.  Hope you'll let us know how things go and if you find anything out with her.


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## ksalvagno (Apr 26, 2012)

There is no way a goat will go 25 days past their due date. I would have a vet ultrasound her and see what is going on. It sounds like she is not pregnant. Even if the kids died, animals are usually good at aborting them.


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## Queen Mum (Apr 26, 2012)

A retained fetus will sometimes be reabsorbed if it does not survive at an early enough stage.  The placenta may continue to grow for a short period of time making the doe look pregnant.  However, some does look pregnant even when they are not.  I have a doe who even after delivery looks pregnant because she has a big rumen.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 26, 2012)

I agree that she will not be delivering at now 26 days past due.  I have concluded she just wasn't pregnant.  Here is how I think it has played out:
When we got her, she was on about 1/2 qt of feed 2x a day.  We raised that to about 1 qt 2x a day to increase milk production.  She also got bred shortly after we bought her.  We never saw her come into heat again after breeding, so we assumed she settled on the first breeding.  We kept her in milk until early Feb with an anticipated due date of March 31.  I believe along the way, she was actually just gaining weight on the increased grain ration.  When the vet did an annual exam, she was under the assumption we were looking at a 3 month pregnant doe and the weight seemed appropriate for that.  We didn't do any ultrasound or blood tests to confirm the pregnancy.  

When we dried her off, she was less than 2 months from kidding, so we didn't cut her grain ration.  Based on her size, we actually had been stepping it up some to about 1.5qts (2 lbs) 2x a day. 

So basically, her weight gain fed the illusion of pregnancy, allowing additional weight gain.  

Now she is at 175lbs and I have cut off all grain.  We will breed her as soon as our buck is mature enough and she comes into heat.

This has definitely made me question my feeding practices on the goats.  I believe I am probably overfeeding all the does.  At least with the other 3 that are pregnant, we are seeing more typical signs like building an udder and swollen vulva.

If suddenly something changes to the contrary, I'll let you all know.


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 26, 2012)

to me the puffy swollen vulva is almost always dependable, by 2 to 2 1/2 months of gestation their vulva should be passing the "pooch test".  Some of the other signs can be harder to tell, like a big belly and even udder developement isn't always real predictable. 

To me, just based on the pooch test, she was for sure "open" in that photo you posted of her.


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## sawfish99 (Apr 26, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> to me the puffy swollen vulva is almost always dependable, by 2 to 2 1/2 months of gestation their vulva should be passing the "pooch test".  Some of the other signs can be harder to tell, like a big belly and even udder developement isn't always real predictable.
> 
> To me, just based on the pooch test, she was for sure "open" in that photo you posted of her.


Except that her previous owners told me she never developed a puffy swollen vulva last year and didn't bag up either.  Other than weight gain, she didn't show any typical signs, went way overdue, and still kidded just fine.


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## AdoptAPitBull (Apr 26, 2012)

Based on the photo of her body condition, she did just look chunky all around. She didn't have the "waistline" that a pregnant goat has. They usually have the reverse hourglass....thin-BIG-thin. I think your girl just looked big all around.

At least now you can stop worrying and driving yourself nuts!


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## elevan (Apr 26, 2012)

Have an ultrasound done.


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