# Porkchop48 kidding thread-Updated.Last one for while, did not go well.



## porkchop48 (Jan 3, 2013)

+I am pulling my hair out waiting. 

Last year I had 4 due. This year I have 8.

 We have Mini Me a black and white boer doe who is bred to a red headed boer buck ( I think) I hope Stinky my Apline did not sneak in a jab at her.  Last year we ended up doing a major tug of war with her. She had a beautiful black headed boer buck that weighed in at almost 13 lbs when born. He was hell on wheel since day one. At less that 48 hours old he was clear acorss the pasture at the pond playing. 

Then Kurt - Kurt is a pure apline bred to a registered alpine. Last year she had a single buckling still born a few weeks early.  She is getting mighty might large and has about 4 weeks to go. Hopeing for twin girlies out of her. 

Then Stiener - Kurts sister bred to a registered alpine. She had a single doeling last year that we lost at 4 days old. I think being a FF she did not produce enough milk and being a goat newb myself I did not pull the kid soon enough. I think if I would have pulled her from the mom and bottle raised she might have made it. 

Kreature - a red headed boer bred to either the apline buck or the boer buck. She is a nice meaty goat and would love to have a doeling out of her to keep.  Kreature was in such bad shape when I got her last year I am glad she did not kid. She had bad hair from lack of minerals, wormy and skin and bones.  This year she is my best looking goat out there and such a sweet goat. 

Mama goat - Nubian bred to either of the bucks. She had a single doeling last year that I kept. No problems birthing and great milker. Would love to have twins from her... Hell I guess I want twins from all of them 

Super goat - Nubian - Gave me two beautiful twin bucklings last year.  Just as big as she was last year with 4-5 weeks to go. 

Vango - My one and only Lamancha bred to a stunning Nubian. She has 2 months to go and is the biggest one of them all.  She is a FF so I hope all goes well.... would be happy with atleast one funky eared doeling to keep. 

Tut - FF alpine Nubian mix.  Hopeing for a good first kidding out of Tut. She was my first keeper doeling and hope she passes along her ears. 

And last but not least Presley - my almost 2 year old FF fainter - Bred to a fainter with blue eyes. I hope she gives me atleast one doeling so I can keep it  

almost 4 weeks to go before they start. Hope to get out and get some pics this weekend if I don't end up going into work.  

The two nubians and the two alpines are starting to get nice little udders... 

Just hoping for happy healthy moms and babies...

And of course the first weekend that I have 3 due I will be out of town... Great. Just great.


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## Lamancha Acres 123 (Jan 3, 2013)

Good luck! Can't wait for our first set of babies in about 5 weeks. Lets all hope for girls


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## Mamaboid (Jan 3, 2013)

Thinking Pink.


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## G6momma (Jan 3, 2013)

This sounds fun!


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## 2goats8kids (Jan 3, 2013)

You could come back from being out of town to a bunch of cute kids, how fun would that be? Hope everything goes super smoothly for you!


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## that's*satyrical (Jan 4, 2013)

Cool. But where are the pics??? :/


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## porkchop48 (Jan 4, 2013)

that's*satyrical said:
			
		

> Cool. But where are the pics??? :/


Patience grasshopper 

Just kidding... I have been going to work when it is dark and coming home when it is dark.. This weekend I plan to get some pics. 

Smoothly would be a blessing. Got two goat people on call for that weekend. The regular guy that comes up to feed and check on every one and then two goat friends that live close that will be stopping in both twice a day.


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## porkchop48 (Jan 5, 2013)

No Pics yet today.   Had to hit the feed mill early, deal with some work issues and get some kind of order done in the frog room.

I think I am nesting - Scrubbed the bathroom top to bottom yesterday and today I started on the kitchen. 

I went out to seperate every one for feeding time ( one group on section, one group other section) and in the mean time called my Cricket friend to see if she was stopping up to see the goats. 

In the 20 minutes that it took her to get here I noticed white goo coming from Mini Me.  So of course I have forgotten all I learned last year and can not remember if they start this a few weeks before kidding or if kidding is going to happen very soon... Still can;t remember actually. 

But it may mean she is going early or I missed her being bred by the boer and she got caught on the cycle before. Or I just suck at math.   Finger crossed all goes well. 

She is being really loving which is what she did last time so I am going to keep check on her ever few hours and keep her penned for a few days. Her ligaments are very soft almost no existent, but do remember from last year they can come and go. 

OK up date over... Back to nesting.   

  Think Pink X2


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## Fluffygal (Jan 5, 2013)

While yer nesting post some pics so we can share the wait with ya.


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## porkchop48 (Jan 15, 2013)

I swear I will get pics this weekend. 

Just got done butchering a cow and quite a few deer so busy has been an understatement.     Mini Me's belly has dropped and she had some goo going last week. She is turning into her lovey dovey pre kidding self. Any time you try to sit down or lean to take a tiny break she is right in your lap. 

Super goat and Mama Goat are getting some nice udders. A little over 2 weeks until they are due.  Looks like their bellies have dropped a bit. 

No udder development from Presley yet( my fainter) but I am not sure when she was bred. She has not come back into heat so I am just keeping a close eye on her. Atleast she is easy to catch.  Even is a goose walks by her she faints. If she sees the food bucket she faints. Poor thing... Wonder how kidding with her will go. 


Going to re-read a bunch of kidding threads to rejar my memory and keep fingers crossed for nice easy births and happy and healthy mamas.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 15, 2013)

porkchop48 said:
			
		

> I swear I will get pics this weekend.
> 
> Just got done butchering a cow and quite a few deer so busy has been an understatement.     Mini Me's belly has dropped and she had some goo going last week. She is turning into her lovey dovey pre kidding self. Any time you try to sit down or lean to take a tiny break she is right in your lap.
> 
> ...


I have a fainter like that, it is a buck with great big horns, and he falls over and gets his horns stuck in the ground.  He lays there and hollers til somebody goes and helps him up.  My female fainters are all about a 4 or 5 on the scale, and the doe that is due next week is an awesome mom.  She raised trips last year all by herself.


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## porkchop48 (Jan 15, 2013)

Is the scale posted some where? I have wanted to check out how they scale them since I got this pair.  Elvis her mate just stiffens on occasions. Her on the other hand falls over if the wind blows too loud.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 15, 2013)

STIFFNESS  The stiffness of these goats relates to their myotonia congenita, which is an essential portion of the breed type. The various levels of stiffness are arbitrary, but a general guide is useful for breeders.

1.    Never observed to stiffen, but other type traits are consistent as is pedigree.

2.    Very rarely stiffens, never falls.

3.    Stiffens only occasionally, and rarely falls.

4.    Walks normally with no swivel. The rear limbs lock up readily, the forelimbs less so, and goats with this degree of stiffness rarely fall to the ground.

5.    Animal walks relatively normally, although somewhat stiff in rear and with a swivel at the hip. Readily stiffens when startled or stepping over a barrier.

6.    Animal always moves stiffly to some degree, and readily becomes locked up when startled or stepping over a low barrier.

Comment: The stiffness is integral to the breed and its character, but this breed is much more than stiffness. Genetic consistency and type traits other than the stiffness are equally important to the stiffness when evaluating goats for breed type. Extreme level 6 stiffness can impede a goat from using the environment well, and extreme stiffness is not necessarily desirable (that is, stiffer is not necessarily better when evaluating goats). Level 6 is stiffer than is usual in most of the breed. Levels 4 and 5 are most typical of the breed. Levels 2 and 3 are useful in purebred herds, and when these levels are combined with heavy muscling they are entirely typical. Level 1 goats are referred to as limber or limber leg, and should be scrutinized. They only rarely have a role to play in breeding programs, and should be discriminated against. Any limber leg goat that is used in breeding programs should be excellent in all other traits typical of the breed and even then should see only minimal use. Level 1 sires should not be used since they are not typical for the breed. Breeders should avoid both overly stiff and non-stiff goats. However, each of these classes will be of occasional use to some breeding programs, and therefore, if they are used at all it needs to be done with much thought and care.

This is copied from this website.
http://www.myotonicgoatregistry.net/MGRbreeddescription/MGRBreeddescription.html


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## porkchop48 (Jan 20, 2013)

I think Presley would definately be a 5 then.  And Elvis a 2. 

Kidding update. .... Looks like it will be starting soon.

Mini me is doing the loner thing. Hanging out a bit by herself. Still eating though. Her ligs are really loose but still there. Not much of an udder but she did not really have much of one last year.  I am going to head back out in a few hours and see how she is doing. She had such a hard time last year with that huge buckling I hope things go better this year. She should be bred to the red headed boer I had here for a while.  Fringers crossed for a nice doeling I can keep.   She can technically go any day after today so I hope she starts off the season well. 


I have some frozen milk and colostrum in the freezer and hope to not have to use it but will if need be.  This year I plan to stock up more in the freezer.  Mama Goats was such a good milker last year so I should be able to put quite a few gallons away this year.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 21, 2013)




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## lilhill (Jan 21, 2013)

Hoping for uneventful kidding and lots of doelings for you!


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## porkchop48 (Jan 25, 2013)

Sorry for the bad quality cell phone pic. Theses cold days zap my camera battery too quickly  to leave in the barn.

Day 147 for Mini me. Poor thing is miserable and hating the other goats so I finally penned her up by herself. Of course there is a show I really want to watch tonight at ten... Great time to have it. 







Please excuse her bad hair do. She gets it every winter and loses it in the spring.


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## pridegoethb4thefall (Jan 25, 2013)

Mamaboid said:
			
		

> STIFFNESS  The stiffness of these goats relates to their myotonia congenita, which is an essential portion of the breed type. The various levels of stiffness are arbitrary, but a general guide is useful for breeders.
> 
> 1.    Never observed to stiffen, but other type traits are consistent as is pedigree.
> 
> ...


Had a vet tell me recently that it is painful to a myotonic goat to 'faint', or lock up. Is there any truth to that? Just curious because we have a fainter doe we just bred to a nigerian dwarf buck. She is our only fainter, and I would rate her between a 5 and a 6 on the scale above. I don't feel real good about any animal being in pain, and sure don't like to think that I am breeding more animals that will just be in pain all their lives.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 25, 2013)

Interesting.  I wonder your vet is basing that on.  I think with people who have myotonia, it can be painful but part of that is because it causes them to have their joints distort into abnormal position and because some people cannot come out of the twisted positions it places them in (it looks horrible and I can't imagine living with something like that).  With goats, it doesn't seem the same though.


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## Fluffygal (Jan 25, 2013)

porkchop48 said:
			
		

> Sorry for the bad quality cell phone pic. Theses cold days zap my camera battery too quickly  to leave in the barn.
> 
> Day 147 for Mini me. Poor thing is miserable and hating the other goats so I finally penned her up by herself. Of course there is a show I really want to watch tonight at ten... Great time to have it.
> 
> ...


She is really round.  She looks like she could pop at any moment. 
Hope you get some healthy doelings.


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## Mamaboid (Jan 26, 2013)

pridegoethb4thefall said:
			
		

> Mamaboid said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I cannot prove it of course, but, I think that is probably not true.  Mine get stiff, keep right on going, and the two young bucks that I have sometimes head butt play right through a stiffening.  Mine dont act like they are hurting at all.  They just take it in stride.  The Myotonic sites that I have visited, (and I think I have seen them all) don't mention it, or if they do they say there is no pain involved, so I am going with no pain involved.

Edited to add: If you are breeding to a ND, you will probably have no worries anyway, because they usually do not faint unless they are full blooded or very close to it.  None of my crosses faint, only the full bloods.


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## porkchop48 (Jan 30, 2013)

Horrible cell phone pics... but they will have to do for now. 

Got a text from DH around 10:30 with a pick of two kids, already up and doing good. Guess she decided to have them while it was storming out.   The dog kept cocking his head and heading toward the door to the goat pens. DH went in and found one my Minime and the other out with the preggo does. He picked up the black headed one and gave it back to mom and penned them up. 

I can home from work and noticed that she had NO udder. She had a tiny one this morning. I figured they drank what little milk she had. Gave her some alfalfa hay, grain and a nice fresh hanging bucket of water.  I went ahead and fixed  them a bottle. Both babies were active and cruising around. They both drank about 4-6 oz of colustrum that I frozen from the last kidding season.  Came back inside and waited. Went ack out about an hour later and noticed any time the red headed one went to nurse she would step away and then head butt it....hmmm. She like the black one but not the red one. 

 They both drank more from the bottles and then settled in. Minime is now starting to get more of an udder but will not let the red one nurse. She head butts her ever time. Forcefully.  So I pulled the red head when I came home from work. She is now nestled into a crate with hay bedding, a full belly of colustrum and sleeping soundly. That room of the barn she is in is well heated and stays about 65ish. 












Did I do the right thing by pulling the red one?  She took to the bottle really well and mom is not producing enough milk. She does have a much bigger udder now and the black one latches really well and does the little tail wag thing. Can I try and reintroduce the red headed one tomorrow is her milk production is up?

Now if I ended up having to bottle feed. - I can feed at 7-7:30 ish before work. I can come home at lunch and feed around noonish to oneish and then again when I get home around 5:30 and then at night at whatever time, will that be enough if she will not take the red headed one back?


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## BrownSheep (Jan 30, 2013)

Since she wasn't receiving the red headed one well to start with. I would say she probably will not accept her now. 
Sorry


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## Fluffygal (Jan 30, 2013)

Sounds like you have a new bottle baby. Even if mom did change, from your description she is only producing enough milk for one. Maybe she knows this so picked the kid she liked best. 
Both babies are adorable.


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## bonbean01 (Jan 30, 2013)

Congratulations on the beautiful babies!!!!


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## madcow (Jan 30, 2013)

Real cutie pies~~@! Congrats!


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## 2goats8kids (Jan 31, 2013)

Congratulations, they're adorable!


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## 20kidsonhill (Jan 31, 2013)

With her not having very much milk, her instincts are telling her to cull out one kid.  At least that is my take on it. I have seen does do this on our farm.  Give all the grocieries to one kid and not bother with the other one. It assures one has a chance.  Other than head shooting her and keep on trying to get her to have more milk, by allowing the 2nd kid to nurse when ever possible and giving it a bottle to keep it alive. Your only option is what you already did. Leave her with one kid and bottle feed the other one. Head shooting will work, but you have  to have the right set up and it is a pain. 

They are cute kids.  
congrats.  
I have a doe that has done that 2 years in a row and she isn't going to be on our farm much longer.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 31, 2013)

If a goat is rejecting a kid more times than not there is a reason. Unless it's the goat's first time I would let it go.


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## porkchop48 (Jan 31, 2013)

Straw Hat Kikos said:
			
		

> If a goat is rejecting a kid more times than not there is a reason. Unless it's the goat's first time I would let it go.


Could that reason have to do with her not producing milk?  

I pulled the black headed one today. With Mini me not producing hardly any milk at all she was getting cold inbetween feedings so I decided to bottle feed her as well. 

When I came home from work today she was a bit lethargic and not as lively as Luna that one that I pulled on the first day.  So instead of losing her with out giving her a chance I pulled her. 

Luna the red head is eating great. Had nice mustard colored stool today and is urinating well.  I have the black headed one now in with its sister and am warming her up. Going to go back out in about an hour and check on them. 

 I just dont feel I can just "let it go" yet. I am gong to give them both a chance and hope for the best. 

Have not many people had success with bottle babies?

In the moms defense she should not have been bred back as soon as she was. She just had her last kid in mid july and it was an accidental breeding.  Not sure if that has anything to do with her not producing much milk but last time she did awesome.


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## Missy (Jan 31, 2013)

Beautiful kids, congrats!


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 31, 2013)

I'm not sure. If she's not producing milk and rejecting a kid I really don't know. I'm not an expert in kidding by any means and I do want to let you know that. But most times in nature if an animal is rejecting it's kids (or offspring) there is a reason. Not all the time of course because it could be related to another issue but alot of times the mothers know.

I'm not telling you to let it go or to keep it. Just something to think about.


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## porkchop48 (Jan 31, 2013)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> With her not having very much milk, her instincts are telling her to cull out one kid.  At least that is my take on it. I have seen does do this on our farm.  Give all the grocieries to one kid and not bother with the other one. It assures one has a chance.  Other than head shooting her and keep on trying to get her to have more milk, by allowing the 2nd kid to nurse when ever possible and giving it a bottle to keep it alive. Your only option is what you already did. Leave her with one kid and bottle feed the other one. Head shooting will work, but you have  to have the right set up and it is a pain.
> 
> They are cute kids.
> congrats.
> I have a doe that has done that 2 years in a row and she isn't going to be on our farm much longer.


How did I miss this post??? But it does make me feel a bit better that I did the right thing.  The both got colustrum from the mom and from what I had frozen. Both now have the mustard stool and are actively eating and peeing.   

Luna ( the red headed one) ate about 7 ounces last feeding around 5. I will go back out tonight and feed again. Gandolph ( the black headed one) ate about 3.5 oz but was also with her mother. Not sure if she got much from mom but had a nice round belly. Both are nestled in a crate in the barn. They are in the heated part of the garage and it is about 65ish in there. Seem to be holding their temps well in there and doing better.


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## jodief100 (Feb 1, 2013)

Kidding so soon may be why she doesn't have enough milk.  Kidding and nursing take a lot out of  them and if they don't have time to build it back up they might not enough stored energy.  

Most people do well with bottle babies.  Roll Farms has a great guide on bottle raising, do a search for it.


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Feb 1, 2013)

Here is Roll Farms Page - I have followed to the letter for TRIP (My Nubian Buckling I purchased from Roll Farms and I am usingit for my LaMancha bittle baby that we have also.

http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=586


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## porkchop48 (Feb 1, 2013)

The two bottle babies are doing great.

Super goat was scheduled to kid on the 2nd ( or close to anyways).  Got a text from DH today showing me a pic of a beautiful nubian/ alpine mix. I guess She did not want to wait till the second. 

I went in and told my boss I was heading home for lunch.  Came home to the beautiful doeling and a cute black buckling with a tiny white spot on its head. 

 Super goat is doing well and has a huge udder so she should do good with them. She did great with her twins last year.  Mini me was trying to get into the pen with the new babies since I had taken hers away. 

We brought them in and dried  them off a bit and sent them back out with mom and they were eating well.  I was worried when I went back to work.  But when I came home they were cuddled with Super Goat. 

BAd cell phone pics to come soon. 

I also think Mama goat is going to go soon. She is oozeing alot. Arching her back, yawning and pawing. Udder is really tight.


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## porkchop48 (Feb 4, 2013)

Mama Goat endedd up having her twins that same night ( friday).  She was bred to the boer we had here for a few  months.  She had twin doelings. 

I have a bad pic of one and will have to get better pics if the sun ever comes out again. Cute little spotted thing. She had red spots going down her back and legs and each spot has the black strip running through it like you see on alot of nubians. 

She is awesome. I am going to name her Spot, or Pongo or Raven.... Still up in the air. 







Still a little wet but was drying off before sending her back out with mom. 







The little red headed doe. 

A better pic of Gandolph - One of the bottle babies. 






And one the nubian twins. This is the doeling. The male I could not get a good pic of. He is all black with a tiny white dot.






I will try for better pics soon. If the darn weather would cooperate. So for the time being cell phone pics will have to do.


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## Missy (Feb 4, 2013)

Congrats!


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## madcow (Feb 5, 2013)

Really precious babies!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 5, 2013)

Congratulations.  They all look really good.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 6, 2013)

Very cute!


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## porkchop48 (Feb 11, 2013)

Well every one is doing good so far. 

Did have some bad news along the way though. Kurt - the Alpine kidded friday night ( twin boys) and we lost them both. IT was down into the 20's and at 10ish she was fine. I went back out at 6 and found two dead kids. The one  was huge - She was licking them both and crying.   I tried bringing them inside and doing everything I can but I think I may have just been too late. 

On a lighter note - I rubbed some of the the afterbirth onto the bottle babies and she has successfully taken them as her own.  She is the herd queen so I know they will do great with the herd with her as their mom. 

 Presley my fainter is getting a nice udder going so I hope not too much longer with her and hoping for a better outcome and atleast one girl I can keep.


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## madcow (Feb 12, 2013)

porkchop48 said:
			
		

> Well every one is doing good so far.
> 
> Did have some bad news along the way though. Kurt - the Alpine kidded friday night ( twin boys) and we lost them both. IT was down into the 20's and at 10ish she was fine. I went back out at 6 and found two dead kids. The one  was huge - She was licking them both and crying.   I tried bringing them inside and doing everything I can but I think I may have just been too late.
> 
> ...


Oh, so sad, and I am very sorry you lost the 2 kids.  

That was an ingenious idea for getting the other goat to take the 2 bottle babies.  Smart move and I hope they do well.


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 12, 2013)




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## porkchop48 (Feb 25, 2013)

The bottle babies have continured to do great with their new mom. I had a goat sitter visit  the first weekend they were together and she said she never would have known they were not hers.  She has turned out to be a great mom.  She is a keeper for sure. 


Took 3 of the kids to be disbudded on friday. 2 more go next friday.  I thought about buying the stuff to do it myself but being that two of them were going to be 4H goats I did  not want to mess it up.   Then I got the bill. 3 kids - disbudded, shots and a general check and my total bill was $30. Ok so for this year I will just let the vet do it. That even included a Lidocaine shot before the disbudding.. I still think I cried more than they did. 


Moving on...

Presley my fainter is getting close. For being only 50ish lbs she is doing awesome. Nice big udder going. You can feel tiny babies or baby moving in her belly... Just one awesome doe please    Ok twins would be better but atleast one doe. Any does that she has I will be keeping.  I noticed her udder is gettinn noticeably bigger daily and today it was just a bit tighter... Please please everything go well with her. She is about 18 months old and this is her FF.


Tut is also starting to build an udder.  I do not care what Tuts has as long as every one makes it through ok.  Tut is my first kid that was born here and a total luv bug.  I am so nervous about her and want to make sure I am there. 

Vango is the 3rd one coming up. Due some time in the next 2 weeksish. Nice udder going on her but she is so skittish I hope the closer she gets the more she calms down.   Super goat was real flighty like Vango until she kidded so I hope the same goes for Vango.   Hoping for some funky eared keepers from her. 

Very very excited about these three and you all may just have to listen to me ramble and babble a bit the closer the get. Now if I could just find the gosh darn camera.


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## bonbean01 (Feb 25, 2013)

Sorry about the lost ones 

And YES...find your camera and make sure batteries are charged up...looking forward to your cute babies!!!!!


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## SkyWarrior (Feb 26, 2013)

We're down in the 20s too, which makes me nervous.  So sorry for your loss.


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## porkchop48 (Mar 5, 2013)

Big ole storm coming... I am not opposed to walking through the snow to get to the barn if it means the girls will kid soon. 

presley is getting close - Doing a lot of laying around, lots of good and a very nice udder. 

Tut - Some goo.  Udder getting noticeably bigger every day. Ligaments playing the hide and seek game. 

Vango - The untouchable is becoming just a tad touchable. Udder is getting bigger daily and she is due around the 14th ( if she took on the first breeding).

I whine, whine and whine some more about waiting but I would really just be happy with healthy kids and moms.  If the fainter has a doeling it will be kept. None of Tuts will be kept.  IF vango has a no eared doeling it might be kept. Might be is the key word. I am trying to go more along the lines of boers and boer mixes but I guess we will see what every one has. 

Still not sure about Kreature - She either has a long way to go or just never took. 

Same with Steiner. Starting to pudge up a bit, so looks like more waiting.


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## porkchop48 (Mar 7, 2013)

Soooo -  I come home wednesday at lunch to check on every one.  Tut had a swollen whoo ha, nice tight udder and no ligs.  I put hubby on watch but he does have to work as well.   All is fine at 2 pm when I go back to work, so I agree to work later than normal. 

I leave work about 6 pm. I come home and decide to go straight to the barn after donning muck boots.  I walk into the barn and find Tut down in her stall. She is not moving, legs straight out and  tongue hanging out.    

I jump the stall gate ( not a pretty picture), she was in front of the gate. I see a head, 3 feet and something else black all trying to come out at the same time.  I needed something to grab ahold of the legs. I have no towels all are being washed to get ready for kidding ( which I still thought I had a few days).  What better to use than my work shirt. So off goes the shirt. No a pretty picture I might add.  I grab the one set of feet to atleast have something to hold on to.  I then realize that the second black thing I see is another head. I had thought the there was only one and it might have been folded.  I try to push the second baby back in enough to get the 1st baby out.  I finally get Tut to start pushing again. Up until now I was still not sure of the mom was still with me.  I finally noticed a hint of a push from her and say  Game on Tuts, lets get these babies out. I had no clue how long she had been like that.   I finally get the first baby out which is the bigger of the two. Seems lifeless so I set it off to the side to get the second baby out.  Both sacs had been broken and  second baby had a bunch in her mouth. 

 Second baby had a foot and a head presenting but not the other leg. I tried feeling for the other leg but could not even feel it to try and get it straightened. So we just delivered her like that.  I set second baby to the side.  Mom was still not doing well at that time. just flopped back over. I could not get her to move. I decided that maybe she needed a bit of a rest period ( heck I would ) and focused my attention on the babies.  When I set them to the side I did manage to clear their mouths.   The were both moving a tiny bit so I had some hope. I got them both a bit dried off and placed them in front of mom.  She wanted nothing to do with them

 I decided to give mom a B12 shot as well as some Bo-Se. I needed to get her up. Itried picking her up and she would just fall back over.    About 20 minutes after the shot mom was up. She did lick the babies a wee bit but I made a judgement call to pull them in long enough to get them dried off.  Finally after a few hours of drying and getting some good food and vitamins into mom she was accepting of the babies a wee bit. Her motherly instincts at this time suck. She let me milk out about 4 oz of colostrum and I got the babies to drink that.   A friend had arrived by this point and we were then holding babies up to help them get some more colostrum. 
 They were finally up, very wobbly but up and drinking. Mom is still not real good at motherin gbut she passed the placenta and favors the smaller girl over the bigger boy. She will let them nurse if you are petting or feeding her so I hope she eventually realized what to do. Until then they will get an extra bottle from me a few times a day as well as help nursing. Both made it through the night and has nice black stools today. 

Now that bad.
After all this went down I went into the man cave to call DH to give him the update.  My friend says I am going to go check on your other goats and the donkey.  A minute later I hear her screaming. I go out and she yells you have a doe stuck, she needs help, shes stuck bad and over the fence she goes. I hang up on DH and scale the fence.  We were too late.  It looks like she was eating and might have gotten hit and shoved to where she could not get out and broke her neck.  It took us almost 45 minutes to get her out.   I was devastated. I am sure it was a freak accident and there was probably nothing I could have done to prevent it. She was my registered apline bred to my registered alpine buck due to kid at the end of the month.   A friend of DH is going to take her and have her mounted.... which in a way is kinda cool. I am going to miss Steiner and just now finally broke down and cried. I think the adrenaline of everything has finally worn off. I'm tired. I'm sad and just plain ole mad about it now.  She was one of my first goats.  

Sorry about the long post guys... Super tired and slap happy. Still have not been to bed since yesterday.  Soon very soon I am hitting the couch.


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## ragdollcatlady (Mar 7, 2013)

Hey porkchop,

What a rough day! I am so sorry for the loss of your Alpine and the stress of a rough delivery on your babies. Some days are just so UGH! I hope your kids and doe continue to get better.


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## madcow (Mar 7, 2013)

Hopefully the happiness of the babies doing well will carry you over the sad time of losing the grown doe.  I'm so sorry.  You need some rest and attention to yourself so you can help those babies be healthy and cared for.


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## RainySunday (Mar 7, 2013)

What a rough day.  I am so sorry for the loss of the alpine, and I hope the babies and mom keep getting stronger!


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## bj taylor (Mar 7, 2013)

i know nothing about goats (except i'm getting some fairly soon) and i'm just cruising trying to learn from y'all - but i have to say - wow! what a day.  so glad you were able to save the one mama & her two kids.  that's remarkable.  really sorry you lost the other.


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## SkyWarrior (Mar 8, 2013)

Sorry about the loss.   

Congrats on getting the babies untangled.


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## promiseacres (Mar 8, 2013)

Great description on the dystocia....glad the kids and mom survived! So very sorry about your doe.


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## porkchop48 (Mar 15, 2013)

This is the little girl from the newest set of twins. Her Name is Saturn which seems to be a common name for babies born around that time of the storm. 

Having a hard time getting Neptunes ( her Brother) to load, but will keep working on it. 


Neptune the buckling is now a bottle baby. The mom just did not like him. She would not let him nurse at all and in turn was not really letting Saturn nurse . She would try to get away from Neptune and Saturn was also getting the raw end of the deal.   Not with Neptune being a bottle baby, Saturn is doing much better and mom is taking pretty good care of her. always has a nie full belly but mom is just not really attentive. Today was the first day I let them out and mom just ran off with out a care in the world about her baby..... GGGRRRR


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## porkchop48 (Mar 18, 2013)

I will just apologize now for the bad quality pics and the weird randomness of them. 

Every one seen mom and wanted to cram into the barn fror treats.






A little more grown up and blurry pic of Spot but you can see the strips through her spots. Such a cool marked goat. Well I think so anyways 






Luna - One of the bottle babies who got adopted by the Apline. She is growing like a weed and doing great. You can just see Gandolph in the pic as well. Gandolph is going to be a short stocky brick house of a doe when she grows up. I see trouble in these twos eyes everytime I look at them. 






Vango who managed to have two adorbale little twin bucklings on the 15th... This is where I want to know who did not think pink. I just wanted one no eared doeling... ONE. and I get two snow white boys. Came out Saturday morning and there they were, dried off and both nursing. She is doing great with them for being a FF. 






One of the new bucklings. They are named Vincent and Vans. 






Kurt the Apline who adopted the bottle babies






Vincent or Vans. not sure which this was. Looking like a little polar bear.






Presley - The fainter... Still waiting. Belly has dropped and she is huge  Any time now would be nice. 






Elvis - The fainter buck Presley is bred to. SUper goat the nubian checking things out. 






Vincent and Vans sleeping after getting their bellies full. Nothing about that looks comfy






Wallace - One of the Nubian alpines sold to a 4Her

Sorry for the pic overload too... Now if I could just get rid of the mud and get some good pics


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## rebelINny (Mar 19, 2013)

Pretty goats and your right, that position the twins are in doesn't look comfy!


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## Canadiannee (Mar 19, 2013)

NEVER enough pictures in my opinion!!!


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## jodief100 (Mar 19, 2013)

The pictures are wonderful!  I love the little white boys.  

So sorry to hear about your doe.


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## madcow (Mar 19, 2013)

Never, never, never apologize for pictures! LOL!  Love them all!  Great looking herd you have there.  Nice to see them all.  The 2 little buckling sleeping was so cute, but definitely not comfortable!  Amazing how they don't care, just gotta sleep.


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## ragdollcatlady (Mar 19, 2013)

Sorry....It was me!!!.....I wasn't thinking pink. I was thinking.....(.....crickets chirping.....) .....  with all that going on in my head, you're lucky you got goats instead of crickets!


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## porkchop48 (Mar 19, 2013)

ragdollcatlady said:
			
		

> Sorry....It was me!!!.....I wasn't thinking pink. I was thinking.....(.....crickets chirping.....) .....  with all that going on in my head, you're lucky you got goats instead of crickets!


So since you owned up to it, you should have to come get some of these little bucklings. I am at 8 bucklings and 4 doelings this year. I am hoping my fainter, who still has not kidded atleast gives me one girl.


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## porkchop48 (Mar 25, 2013)

If it was not for feeling babies kick or her bieng as wide as she is tall I would easily convince myself Presley the fainter is not pregnant.

 What could she possibly be waiting on????  Oh I know I am going out of town Saturday.  

He udder is huge, it pushes against her legs, her ligs have been playing hide and seek for well over a week.


Here is the running tally so far

Mini me - 2 doelings ( Gandolph and Luna) - Bottle babies
Super Goat - Two bucklings ( willis and wallace)
Mama goat - One doe, one bucklings ( Spot and Downs)
Kurt -  2 bucks - Still both died at birth  ( adopted the twins from Mini me)
Tut - one doeling, one buckling ( saturn and Neptune ( Neptune was the bottle baby that just passed)
Vango - 2 Bucklings ( Vincent and Vans)


Bucklings - 8 
Doelings - 4

  WHO IS STILL NOT THINKING PINK?????? 



   I might have managed to get my baby fix another way though and bought 3 bottle babies from a friend. All 3 doelings. Two lamanchas and one all black alpine.   I went the other day a few towns over to a lady who I wanted to look at her boer doelings and see about maybe a buckling to use for breeding next year. The day before I went she had a FF who had twin bucks. I fell in love with the one.   We talked about him for a while and I asked her to please call me when he was ready to go.   3 days later she called me. His mom was not producing a lot of milk and she was supplementing bottle so she asked me if I wanted him.  I picked him up  this saturday. 

He was 7.9 lbs at birth and at 2 days was 9.12 lbs... I hope he ends up being a big boy. 

Pics to come soon - I am going to go scare at a fainter and beg for doelings.....


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## porkchop48 (Apr 16, 2013)

Nothing like taking forever to update - Something about deciding to remodel the whole house and work 60+ hours a week has kept me a bit busy.

  The last update for this group to kid is Presley - Let sstart with it did not go as planned but Presley has healed up nicely and is doing great.

Two days before I was to leave on vacation I was begging Presley to have her kid or kids. She complied.  I noticed about 8 pm she was acting a bit off. HUge tight udder and not much interest in anything. 

I went back out to check on her around 10 and noticed a bubble...OK this is good. Progress. By 10:30 nothing. HHmm. Lets just give her a bit of time, I was thinking she just was not serious enough yet about pushing. By 11 Pm I was starting to pace and start thinking of who I could possible call for some peace of mind. I decided against waking up my friends or DH who was sleeping.  By 11:30 I decided to scrub up and see what was going on.   I find one foot right as I enter. A little farther I find foot two. Upon entering a bit more I find a head a HUGE head.  I  then start thinking that poor Presley may need a little help getting this large baby out.  So i get a good hold on the legs to atleast get them started out and the head heading. Presley is little about 50 lbs.  So I now have my one arm around Presleys neck/ front legs, my other hand/ wrist in her trying to pull baby.   After trying for over an hour and a half MOm was exhasuted, I was a wreck and crying... I called DH the barn.  I simply asked as calmly as I could, can you please come help me. 

 He comes out and we try round two to get baby out. The baby was still alive.   We end up tying a ropeish around the feet to give something more to pull on. He held the top part of presley and every time she pushed I pull.  That baby was not moving. I kept going back in to make sure it was positioned correctly.  I was pulling with two hands, my feet planted on her butt and my butt on the ground.   By 2:30am, eveyone is exhausted. I just wanted to save presley at that time.   We hatched one last plan to move her to a different stall that we could get more leverage on. DH had now moved to the pulling and me the holding but he was in one stall Presley was backed up against the other stall to be able to leverage against the boards.  We finally got the baby out. 

The doeling weighed in at 7.2 lbs and had a very very weak pulse when we got her out. She did not make it.  I tried everything I could, a bit if goaty CPR, some rough rubbing, suctioning out her mouth. I think the stress might have been too much. I think it may have taken her two long to get out. 

We did everything we could have. Or atleast everything I knew to do. Presley was very sore for a few days.   I gave her an antibiotic shot and kept her penned up for a week.   The doeling was a spitting image of Elvis the dad.   I am happy that Presley is well, upset that we lost the doeling but it could have been worse we could have lost them both. 

I am plum tuckered out with all the ups and downs for this kidding season.  The gains, the losses.  It was rough but I look forward to round two with the two Nubians due in July that I will be picking up next week and Kreature who is finally bred for sure this time. 

Sorry for the long post. I kept debating whether to post it or not. Of course it is late and I am tired and am sure I left out the details but I was worried that I  might be bashed for doing something wrong with Presley. I am sure there is things I could have done differently.  I am still kicking myself not knowing if something would have saved the doeling. But I decided I would post it and learn. So if any one has any suggestions on what could have been done different I am all ears.


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## PattySh (Apr 16, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your lost kid. Don't beat yourself up. I recommend you purchase a head snare. Jeffers has them. I have saved a couple of kids getting "big" heads delivered easier.


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## alsea1 (Apr 16, 2013)

You did the best you could. Sometimes this stuff just happens


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## TigerLily Trail Ranch (Apr 16, 2013)

Sorry you lost the kid. Glad Presley is OK though. 

I know nothing about snares & stick to good old fashioned pulling by hand lol, but it sounds like you did everything right! The only other thing I would have tried after no progress was to pull the kid with only one leg forward. I just recently heard from a friend who talks to a lot of vets is that even though both feet forward is the traditional perfect position one leg is better because the shoulder area becomes narrower than it would be with both legs forward. I hadnt thought of it, but she pointed out that both forward can be similar to both legs back cuz they bunch up at the base of the neck & take up more space. I dont know if it would have helped much considering 3-4lbs is considered big for a 50lb doe, but id say you did swear word good getting the kid out without a c-section. 

 that your 2 kiddings go smooth as can be! I know it can be hard, but try stay possitive .


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## rebelINny (Apr 17, 2013)

I'd say you did as good of a job as possible. Good job on saving Presley! We can't save them all unfortunately but sounds like you did all you could. Hugs and keep your chin up.


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## ragdollcatlady (Apr 17, 2013)

I would have done the same.....I am so sorry for your loss!


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