# Need Help with Tail Cropping and castration please.



## SarahSand1 (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi all, 
My name is Sarah,
I live in the South of Tasmania.

This week our three Poll Dorset Ewes much to our surprise presented us this 5 baby lams 3 rams and two ewes, all is well and the mums are feeding babies well. (There were six but the tassie devil got one) 
When dealing with Tassie Devils rotten things are protected, personally I won't say what I think of them. It would not be nice.
I know the tails have to be cropped and went out today and bought the ring pliers and a packet of rings. I also wish the rams to be wethers as we do not want indreeding.  Our current ram is away on another property of our neighbour.  

My Question is, as what age should the rubbers be attached to the tails and also at what age should the testicles have the rubbers attached.  
One final question please at what age should be babies be drenched.  Our three mother ewes are due to be shorn and drenched when babies are weened. Do we drench the lambs at the same time. We are fortunate on this property and the neighbouring properties that worm has not been a heavy issue. 

Thank you for your help in advance.

Sarah.


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## Pearce Pastures (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi Sarah,
Welcome to BYH.  I'd love to help but know nothing about sheep or tail docking.  I think you might have more luck if you request your post be moved to the sheep section...just hit the REPORT button and as the moderators to do that for ya and they will


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## Goatherd (Oct 8, 2012)

Hello Sarah and welcome!

I can't help you with your questions, but I would suggest you post your question on the "Sheep" section of the forum so that you can get the appropriate answers.
This is the "Goat" section ,and while some may know, you would be better served on the other forum.

Good luck!


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## Southern by choice (Oct 8, 2012)

Hello Sarah from Tasmania! My hubby was in Hobart for a month or so on business, loved it there! 
Sheep section would be better! and....


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## Alice Acres (Oct 8, 2012)

Hi Sarah

We put the bands on the tails in the 1st 24 hours after birth. If they are born and look strong and healthy - we band right after birth. If they look a little stressed we wait a bit to let them recover and nurse a few times. We have waited up to a week to band. I bet you can wait longer, but it hurts them more (the nervous system is less mature right after birth, and gradually develops after birth.)

As far as castration, when you have 2 testes dropped into the scrotum, you can band. This you can wait a lot longer for. Many people do wait - as they want the ram lambs to mature a bit and you may have some you want to leave intact as rams to sell. Or if you have part of your flock who are unrelated, you could use 1 yourself for use on non-related ewes.

Good luck!


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## SheepGirl (Oct 8, 2012)

We band up to 3 days old and we castrate no later than 30 days of age.

You can drench the lambs at the same time as your ewes if they need it as well.


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## BrownSheep (Oct 8, 2012)

We've banded as late as two weeks but the earlier you do it the better. We dock our tails to righ about where the flesh is on the underside. It will leave you with about 2 inches of tail. Personally I rather error on the side of a little too long vs a little too short. I castrate mine from 3-5 weeks depending on when the testes drop. You might want to get some help if you've never done it before. It is rather easy to let a testical escape the band if you've never done it. We do it with two people anyway. One pushing the testicals in to the sack and the other one banding.  

Glad to hear you have dorsets! We raise horn Dorset crosses. Wonderful breed.


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## Southdown (Oct 8, 2012)

I band the tails at 24 hours of age, unless they are weak looking and need to nurse longer.  I like to give them a chance to eat, get on their feet, and bond with momma for the first 24 hours.  I had to band one later, maybe she was close to a week old, and it really caused pain for the lamb.  It seems to cause less pain if you can do it sooner.  I also leave about 2 inches of tail length.  The castration has been a battle for me.  I have learned from my mistakes.  I will never use the banding method for castration any more.  I much prefer the burdizzo clamp.  However, I have learned that you need to lock the instrument, not just press firmly.  We used the burdizzo at an older age because I can never seem to get the testicles to stay down low enough to get above them.  It's really hard when they are the size of a pea.  I also noticed a lot less pain response with the burdizzo and no fly problems.  It's also good if momma ewe had her CDT booster three weeks prior to lambing because she can give some passive immunity to the lamb.


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## secuono (Oct 8, 2012)

I waited to band tails until all were active and happy. So 4 and 6 weeks of age. Rams were band castrated as they sold, I can't remember their ages, but 3mo roughly. Had one castrated around 4mo, he was ok, then a little off that freaked me out, but then he sprung back and is doing wonderful. So I'd say stick to under 3mo for sure for castration. I waited mainly because I didn't want to stress anyone or risk any issues until I was sure they were tough enough.


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## SarahSand1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> Hi Sarah,
> Welcome to BYH.  I'd love to help but know nothing about sheep or tail docking.  I think you might have more luck if you request your post be moved to the sheep section...just hit the REPORT button and as the moderators to do that for ya and they will


Thanks for the welcome Mr. Herd Master, I have placed my post in the right category, Birthing Weaning and Raising Young Sheep judging by the relies and thank you all that have replied.

Sarah


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## SarahSand1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> Hello Sarah from Tasmania! My hubby was in Hobart for a month or so on business, loved it there!
> Sheep section would be better! and....


This is getting really confusing,     What section am I in?  
*
Is not Birthing, Weaning and Raising Young Sheep a Sheep Section?*   

Glad your hubby enjoyed Hobart, when I first arrived here in 2007 I thought I stepped into a time warp back to the 70's

By mainland standards, Sydney, this place to me was primitive, it was quite a cultrure shock to the System, it took me three years to adjust.

I now live 52 km as the crow flies south of Hobart, on a 7.5 acre property in Franklin  Altitude about 220 meters and being past the 40th paralell, we get the blasts of the roaring 40's with recent gusts of 120 kph.

Winter here is tragic with the wind and rains and the Chicken Coup is a mud bath, no matter how high I raised the main coup on stilts, We have frequent visits from quolls and Tasmanian Devils and I do not care if it is a protected species or not, my livestock is more protected to me, if I see one of these critters trotting up the road at night, I do not see them and they just get squashed under the ute tyres and a 4wd Toyota makes a good squasher.

My lovley ewes, the dorsets are the most gentle creatures I have ever had, and we did have Sannan goats before as well as a couple of Boer wethers, all sent to the meat works and freezer as to hard to control and the cost of goat proof fencing was to great and they totally ignored electric fencing.  Oh well the goat meat was had for the last six months.  Served us well over winter, Hubby is a Slavic chef, and he knows 1001 things to do with goat meat but he will not part with his recepies.  Says they are a family tradition, and in his private cook book which will be passed on to his heir.

We also have about 30 New Hampshire Chickens and one Roster that is a New Hampshire Sussex Cross, indeed we are self sufficent in Eggs and sell off the surpluss currently 7 doz a week, 
We plan to extend our sheepie flock, for not only paddock mowing reasons but the weathers are a welcome addition to the freezer and sell for quite a considerable profit at Auction or on the net.

Anyhow good people this is enough of an introduction from me, hubby sends his love and thanks.

Sarah


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 9, 2012)

I don't band tails until at least a week old, and I prefer to wait until around 2 weeks.  I castrate at varying times, depending on the animal. Lately I haven't been castrating at all, since the lambs will be for the freezer I just keep them intact and it doesn't affect the meat.  If I was sure I wanted to castrate a ram, I'd probably do it around 8 weeks.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 9, 2012)

hi SarahSand! I might be wrong but i think your post originally showed up in the goats section, it says moved and is now in sheep!I rarely look at sheep stuff I don't have any sheep and know nothing. I'm glad it was in goats or I would have never seen your post! Would love to see you start a journal and share with us farm life in Tasmania! You got me at the Tasmanian Devils thing,   , I know it's not really funny but for us here(in the States) it is just something you see on National Geographic or something, completely out of our understanding.

 Somehow you must "sweetly" convince Hubby to share a few easy (for us non-chefs) recipes for goat. Not asking for family secrets just simple (and I mean simple) recipes, something that would feed 12-13 people... Please 

Check out the journals section!


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## SarahSand1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> hi SarahSand! I might be wrong but i think your post originally showed up in the goats section, it says moved and is now in sheep!I rarely look at sheep stuff I don't have any sheep and know nothing. I'm glad it was in goats or I would have never seen your post! Would love to see you start a journal and share with us farm life in Tasmania! You got me at the Tasmanian Devils thing,   , I know it's not really funny but for us here(in the States) it is just something you see on National Geographic or something, completely out of our understanding.
> 
> Somehow you must "sweetly" convince Hubby to share a few easy (for us non-chefs) recipes for goat. Not asking for family secrets just simple (and I mean simple) recipes, something that would feed 12-13 people... Please
> 
> Check out the journals section!


Hi Southern By Choice,
I am glad that the error in posting is sorted at last.
I have put up a members page on this forum where you can see a picture of our property with another picture of our babies.  Also there is a link to our primary site and if you wish you can download from there our broshure in PDF format that will show quite a few pics of our farm and what we look like.
As to your comments about the Tassie Devil, yes well, I am sure a lot of you American friends would relate to the Looney Tunes Tassie Devil Cartoons, beleive me our critters are not that funny.  I suppose you guys and gals have problems with Kyotees, Racoons and the like. Australia has its Dingo's. Foxes are also on the mainland but not so much in Tasmania. 

As to your request for recepies for cooking Goat, hubby says that it is no different than to cooking lamb. So whatever lamb recepies you may know, use the same and substitute goat meat.
He has agreed to share his Boerworst Sausage Recepie but I am not sure as to what section of this forum to post that too. He substitutes goat meat to the other meat shown in the recepie.

 to all 

Sarah


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## Cornish Heritage (Oct 15, 2012)

Welcome Sarah 

We are originally from England, now living in the USA. We have St. Croix sheep so do not dock tails. We rarely castrate either as there is no taint in ram meat of the St. Croix's. However when you do castrate you must make sure you have both testicles descended. If you castrate too early sometimes one of them stays hidden so just make sure you have both of them in your hand before letting go of that band! If you wait until they are too old then you will not be able to get the band around them. We tried to castrate one that was 3mths old this year & he was TOO big so he stayed as a ram - just had to make sure he was well away from the girls. 

Liz


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## Four Winds Ranch (Oct 15, 2012)

Hi!
 I usually casturate and band the tail at 3-5 days! It seems to work awesome! The lambs dont' seem too bothered by it, about an hour or so of discomfort and then all is good! ( Also they are easy to walk up to and catch at that age) Only one in about 300 lambs I have had to wait on the castration because one or both of the testies are not down, and have never had an infectin! Good luck! From reading this thread, it looks like it is up to you when it would work the best for you!


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## Bossroo (Oct 16, 2012)

Before banding came into vogue... the old way was used to have another person place the  1 day to 2 week old lamb on it's hind end by holding one front leg and one hind leg in each of their hands, then another person would use a sharp knife to cut the lower 1/3 of it's scrotum off, then using one's both hands push out the 2 testicles, grab them with one's teeth and pull them out.  For docking... same holding of the lamb, then using a 1/2" thick piece of board against it's rump as a spacer, apply a very hot iron cutting edge tip( similar to a chisel, but about 18" to 24" long as a handle) to cut the tails.    Done in a minute or two, with no slip ups in castrations. The hot iron cauterizes the tail stump too. Many years ago I have done hundreds of lambs this way.


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## Cornish Heritage (Oct 16, 2012)

> the old way was used to have another person place the  1 day to 2 week old lamb on it's hind end by holding one front leg and one hind leg in each of their hands, then another person would use a sharp knife to cut the lower 1/3 of it's scrotum off, then using one's both hands push out the 2 testicles, grab them with one's teeth and pull them out.


While this may have worked years ago I certainly do not recommend this today. You are putting yourself at incredible risk of infection - think worms/parasites, & everything else that is coming out close to where the scrotum is. It is not worth it.

... it grosses me out to even think of doing it that way. 

Cowboys used to do this with calves too & recently someone, in the last year, died from the infection they got by biting the testes of calves. 

Liz


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 16, 2012)

I've done them the way Bossroo explained, EXCEPT I did not bite them out.  LOL.  I just used my hands.


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## BrownSheep (Oct 16, 2012)

My dad almost would prefer it if we cut them that way( hands not teeth). I told him he could do it himself if that's how he wanted it done.


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## SarahSand1 (Oct 16, 2012)

Bossroo said:
			
		

> Before banding came into vogue... the old way was used to have another person place the  1 day to 2 week old lamb on it's hind end by holding one front leg and one hind leg in each of their hands, then another person would use a sharp knife to cut the lower 1/3 of it's scrotum off, then using one's both hands push out the 2 testicles, grab them with one's teeth and pull them out.  For docking... same holding of the lamb, then using a 1/2" thick piece of board against it's rump as a spacer, apply a very hot iron cutting edge tip( similar to a chisel, but about 18" to 24" long as a handle) to cut the tails.    Done in a minute or two, with no slip ups in castrations. The hot iron cauterizes the tail stump too. Many years ago I have done hundreds of lambs this way.


Yuck, I certainly would not be doing it this way, prefer to use the rubber rings and the banding pliers. A lot more hygenic and safer. The thought of doing it this way is enough to make me want to throw up.

  Sarah.


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## Bossroo (Oct 16, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> > the old way was used to have another person place the  1 day to 2 week old lamb on it's hind end by holding one front leg and one hind leg in each of their hands, then another person would use a sharp knife to cut the lower 1/3 of it's scrotum off, then using one's both hands push out the 2 testicles, grab them with one's teeth and pull them out.
> 
> 
> While this may have worked years ago I certainly do not recommend this today. You are putting yourself at incredible risk of infection - think worms/parasites, & everything else that is coming out close to where the scrotum is. It is not worth it.
> ...


I was thaught this method by a gentleman from Scotland, where he said every shepherd that he knew  there did it that way.  I have talked to  quite a few Basque shepherds who did it this way in their home land, and here in the US,  they do so on the open range where there is no doctor or hospital much less another human anywhere near by.  I worked with an Apache Indian gentleman who did it too. I worked at a major Ag University in Cal. where I saw the Professor in charge of the sheep herds ( 1,000+ head of ewes)   as well as the shepherd and  student assistants do it too.  I have castrated and docked tails on hundreds of my own lambs this way  as well as worked at a Veterinary Teaching Hospital where I was exposed to every pathogen that made animals very ill or killed them and never had any worms/ parasites &/or everything else cause me to have a sick moment ... proof....  decades later I am still alive , hale and hardy.             By the way... since many here are so much into raising Heritage animals,   this was the Heritage way of doing things !


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 16, 2012)

I prefer the cutting method over the banding method, and if I had help here I'd cut them.  I may be able to convince my husband to hold them for me, but I'm not sure. The lambs recover much faster than with banding, and the risk of infection for the lamb is slim.  It's very hygienic and not very stressful to them at all.  Banding is painful for them because it takes a while for them to stop feeling the pain from the band.  Cutting may LOOK worse to us humans, but it doesn't mean it is worse.  Banding may be bloodless, but it doesn't mean it's better for the sheep.  Cutting is done and over with in a minute or two.  Banding takes weeks.  And I'm sorry, but if you have ever had to clean out a wound from the band, you'll see it is still painful for the lamb, even up to two weeks later until that tail falls of.  Just something to think about.


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## Alice Acres (Oct 16, 2012)

We always band, and never had a single problem. I started when I was a 10 yr old 4-Her and still do 
No blood, no infections. We do take care to avoid the fly seasons, that's just common sense though.


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## Cornish Heritage (Oct 16, 2012)

> By the way... since many here are so much into raising Heritage animals,   this was the Heritage way of doing things !


LOL! I'm glad you're still alive to tell the tale & y'know it is good to hear how things used to be done & are still done in some places & cultures - it's a good education for us all. I'm just glad I do not need to use my teeth - hands & a knife are a much better idea IMO if you are going to cut. 

Have to admit Richard & I do not like cutting. Pigs have to be cut to be castrated (cannot be banded) & we always take them to the vet to do. His price is extremely reasonable & to us it is worth it. I can remember when we used to have goats WAY WAY back. We took our first 'wether to be' to the vet & they used the emasculator to crush the tubes - that was awful - poor goat (Dumbo) was in agony. We actually bought the tool but never used it. Dumbo did forgive us & became a great pet to our daughter but I don't think any of us ever forgot watching that. 

Unless we have a naughty ram that will not stay in his pasture we do not wether - one of the joys of raising St. Croix - no taint.

Liz


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## SarahSand1 (Oct 18, 2012)

Caught one of my lambs today and the rings went on,  oh well 4 to go, the shearer is comming next Tuesday with his sheep dog. Then may be we can pen the little blighters up and do the rest.  We will be keeping one ram though as they are not related to the young ewes. I could certainly use a good working sheep dog.  Scarce as hens teeth our way and as dear as poison.  At least our doggie has them bluffed but the ewes chase the bejebuz out of him.  Poor little doggie he tries so hard too.

 to all Sarah.


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## Alice Acres (Oct 18, 2012)

Glad you caught one of them


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## SarahSand1 (Oct 18, 2012)

Alice Acres said:
			
		

> Glad you caught one of them


 I will take back all I said about our Doggie,
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 Mr. Shultz.  Husband was feeling somewhat bored and went for a walk to inspect the sheep. Mr. Shultz came along as well. He took the banding pliers with him and the rings as well.  I could not believe my eyes, Mr. Shultz trapped the herd in the paddock corner and distracted the mothers and hubby was able to catch and band the remaining lambs.   .  He did come back cussing as some of the lambs peed on him. I suppose so would you pee on some one about to remove your crown jewls.
Its into the bath tub with Hubby, I am not about to have him smelling up the place like a ram.    *Oh well, Mr Shultz won a repreive, I was considering selling him and put the money towards a sheep dog, but it seems he got the idea as to how to control sheep, I cannot figure out how he learned the trick,* no one has ever taught him and he is not a breed that do this naturaly.  Oh well, he is back to sparring with our rooster now, One of these days I will take a video of the doggie & rooster sparing game and put it on Ytube.  

 to all Sarah.


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## Cornish Heritage (Oct 19, 2012)

Cute! Great success story 

Liz


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## Alice Acres (Oct 19, 2012)

Wonderful!!

While I have 2 Old English Sheepdogs (and they love herding)....our little rat terrier also does a good job...sounds similar to your cute little guy!!


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## SarahSand1 (Oct 20, 2012)

Alice Acres said:
			
		

> Wonderful!!
> 
> While I have 2 Old English Sheepdogs (and they love herding)....our little rat terrier also does a good job...sounds similar to your cute little guy!!


:/  He might be a cute little guy but I wish he would stop harrassing the neighbours cattle. Seems to me he has now developed a hearding bug and wants to herd everything including sheep, chickens and cattle.
Never a dull moment with this critter.

 to all

Sarah


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