# Craigslist ppl-Grrrr. fencing question



## Xerocles (Dec 8, 2019)

Since my bunny quest is 99.5% finished, I can start thinking about my next (and possibly last) expansion. Goats- mid to late spring. I'm still unsure about this one. Research scares the beejesus out of me about fencing. But still I plod on. Ideally, I wanted temporary fencing because the goats are needed at multiple locations on the property. But it appears that electric without anything else is a crap shoot.  Ok, I'm flexible. I can adapt. But. New field (goatproof) fencing just will NOT fit the budget. So.... I am searching. On Craigslist I found a person (1 1/2 hour drive) with a 40' X 40' 6ft high CHAIN LINK fence with double gate for $200, I take it down. Lot of work. UNBELIEVABLE price. And I venture a guess that some 24" goat is not gonna escape THAT!
Fly in the ointment. The poster did not list any contact info. Got CL to send him an emal informing him of lack of info, but nothing.  after two weeks.oh well, back to the drawing boards.
JUST IN CASE. Since I don't want anyone saying I didn't ask.... what is the best way to pull posts that (probably) are set in concrete WITHOUT A TRACTOR OR OTHER LARGE MACHINE. Asking just in case the guy finally responds.


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## thistlebloom (Dec 8, 2019)

I used my 2 goats for brush eating. We used 16' x52" cattle panels and moved them every few days, or as needed. I used 2 carabiner clips to fasten each corner. The panels are moveable by a single person, I did it by myself many times when dh wasn't home, although in thicker brush it was something of a struggle sometimes. 
The goats were lead trained and I put them back in their permanent pen every night. 
Another option, which I considered is portable fence panels, built like horse corral panels but sized for goats. Those I think would have been more convenient to move, but the CP were more budget friendly.


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## farmerjan (Dec 9, 2019)

You might want to look into electric fence netting.  Kencove and Premier are 2 companies that I can think of off hand.  If you can mow a straight line through a patch of thick stuff, the goats or sheep can work on the rest within the enclosure.
I am a big fan of cattle or combination panels.  The cattle panels are a little bigger spaced near the bottom, almost the same as the top.  The combination ones are closer at the bottom than the top.  Made especially for multipurpose use like from hogs to cattle.  They even keep in the fat meat chickens as they are too heavy to fly over too.  The panels come in a "3 ft and a 4 ft" size ( they are like 39" and 46" inches tall) with the combination panels in the taller size.  The hog panels are shorter.  Then there are also panels that are made for sheep/goats, but I don't have any experience with them as I never see them at the co-op or even at our local TSC.  
Panels are not real cheap, but they are very versatile.  You can move them, a couple of t-posts will keep them pretty upright, you can accommodate ground that maybe is irregularly shaped, and you can use anything from baling string, to wire, to  clips of any kind to hold the ends together.  They are somewhat bendable, and can be cut to fit or make a gate.   The animal that they are  enclosing will determine what you use to join the ends.  Calves like to chew strings, as I am sure will goats and such.  But they are quick to put up and then you can determine where, how and if you really want a fence in a certain spot before you go and spend a bunch of money for something more permanent. 
 Without a tractor of some sort, getting post with concrete around them is not going to be a very easy job.  I personally don't like chain link.  It has to be tight or it is useless.   I would take a cattle panel any day over a chain link fence.


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## Xerocles (Dec 9, 2019)

@ farmerjan I don't know. The internet views on goat fencing are just SO confusing. Probably one of the most contentious topics I have ever researched. Initially I was leaning toward electric but many ppl seem to regard it as worthless to constrain goats. I like the panel approach because it is relatively easy to rotate. But many ppl say a Nigerian Dwarf can standing still flat footed jump a 4 ft fence.
TSC has a graduated 8' X 50" panel in 4ga/6ga wire (by OK brands) that seems ideal....except for the height. I love the 8' option because I have VERY uneven terrain to deal with. And at 16lbs each, moving would be a breeze. And the price is attractive. But although I live in a very rural area, I am bordered by a HEAVILY traveled 4 lane road with no border fence. Loss and more importantly LIABILITY scare me if the goats escape. And I need their brush clearing abilities near this road, especially on some steep embankments. I can just visualize a goat jumping a 50" fence and into the path of a car full of teenagers on the way to the lake.
Hey, a thought just struck me as I was writing this, so no real studying of this plan yet. But how about a one/two approach. 50" fence and weighted collars? Not so much weight as to hamper goat movement or health, but enough to inhibit jumping ability? Ever hear of anyone trying something like this? Downsides?
Since the fence is so mobile, I could use it first far from the road, to make sure they stay contained. One stress of ALL this is, I can handle necessary expenses, but can't stand expenditures that don't work and call for even MORE expendatures. Waste KILLS budgets!


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## secuono (Dec 9, 2019)

My trio got out of 5ft chain link...


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## thistlebloom (Dec 9, 2019)

Maybe you can use a combination of the panels you found locally and a hot wire.

I maintain a landscape in a nearby town for snowbirds. It's a nightmare of deer overpopulation and in the winter when the property is vacant I erect temporary hot wire fencing. Some of the chargers are solar, and two operate on 6 D cell. I'm very impressed with those two, as are the deer apparently.  Chargers are not cheap, but I'm on the third year with these and they have worked flawlessly. My DH can attest to the wallop they give also. He was helping me setup and I thought he knew I had turned it on. Oops. 🤣


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## Baymule (Dec 9, 2019)

Fencing ain’t cheap. How many acres do you have? If nothing else, buy one roll of wire at a time. It may take awhile but in the end it would be done. We used 2”x4”x48” non climb horse wire.$$$$$$$ There is goat and sheep wire with 4”x4” holes, it comes in a 330’ roll at about the same price as a 200’ roll of horse wire. 

So you buy a roll and put it down the fence line. Another roll or two and you can have a nice size pasture. 

Here is a link to my fencing thread. I did a lot of things right and, as pointed out by those who have vastly more knowledge and experience than I do, I did a lot of things wrong. There were good discussions and I finished up knowing a lot more than what I started with. Did I make mistakes? Yes. But you know what? That fence does what I built it for, mistakes and all. 






						Non-Climb 2"x4" Horse Wire Fence
					

There have been a lot of fence discussions here on BYH. As many of you know, my husband and I bought a home on 8 acres and moved 160 miles to be close to our DD, DSIL and our precious 2 grand daughters. There was nothing here but the house. Nothing. We had a house in town and acreage outside of...



					www.backyardherds.com
				




Start your own fence thread, others will chime in with helpful advice. 

We have a gully that cuts through our property. After study, I decided on concrete bags. We ran the wire straight across the gully, then drove T-posts and made a lower section of wire fill, then concrete bags at the bottom to let water flow through. It’s still working. 

Post pictures of your problem areas, many of us have faced our own challenges and will only be too glad to help.


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## farmerjan (Dec 9, 2019)

One more thing to think of. If the goats have plenty to eat/browse, they are also much less likely to want to try to jump out.  Granted goats are the most likely to do the "jumping" routine..... but if they are busy chowing down, they aren't going to be going looking.  So the panels can keep them busy by your moving them around.  And any animal can get out of any fence if they really want to.  The biggest reasons animals get out is;  mostly,  1- hunger,  2- a male wanting to go "visiting" something that smells better across the fence,  3 -scared because they are being harassed, chased or attacked,  4- crappy fences or damages from falling trees etc., and 5 - there are a few that just like to be ornery.
  I had a cow that would get out, then walk down the driveway and go stand by the gate to be let back in.  No one else would get out,  no spots were such that would ever make you think that she could/did get out.  If I hadn't seen it, I would not have known where she got out. But the thing is, after moving her, she became a chronic escape artist, and one day she just pissed me off, and she went on the trailer and went to town.  She was good dispositioned, she came when she was called, she never tried to lead any others out with her.  But she became a liability, and after listening to my son b#@$h and complain, I just decided to stop it.   
There aren't alot that are chronic problems.  A few panels to make a small section, and maybe add a strand or 2 of electric  on top and one around the inside..... teach them some respect, and they will probably be just very good about staying inside a fence.


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## Xerocles (Dec 10, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Post pictures of your problem areas, many of us have faced our own challenges and will only be too glad to help.



You asked. Here are my two biggest problem areas.






Seriously though. I'll try to take some shots of the "problem" areas later. Mostly very steep banks and a couple of gullies. But understand. I have no desire or plans to fence and cross fence my place. No "pasturable" (is that a word?) area, all heavily wooded mature hardwood forest. More importantly, no desire for animals that would need it. I don't want cows, horses, sheep, llamas and the like. I want 1 dog, 6 chickens, 4 rabbits, and two dwarf goats. Not even a partridge in a pear tree. The goats need SOME kind of enclosed pasture, but the companionship and milk from two goats just doesn't justify the expenditure (time or money) for 1000s of dollars in infrastructure.
BTW I read your entire thread about your fence. Pretty darn impressive. But even discounting the massive amount of labor, your fence is worth just about what my house is worth.


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## farmerjan (Dec 10, 2019)

If you are mostly all mature hardwood trees, even having 2 NG's might prove to be more expensive than the value of their milk and/or brush clearing.  It sounds like the fence panels would still be the best way to go, versatile, moveable, and not alot of infrastructure expense.  This way, if they aren't what you wanted or just not a "fit" you can get rid of them and the panels etc., pretty easily.   I honestly do not see  a couple of small NG's jumping over a 4+ ft fence, unless they are starving or extremely scared and panic.


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## Baymule (Dec 10, 2019)

I would get the Sheep and goat panels, you might have to order them online at TSC and pick up at your local store. They have 4” holes, cow panels have 6” holes and a Nigerian Dwarf kid can walk through them.


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## Xerocles (Dec 10, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> If you are mostly all mature hardwood trees, even having 2 NG's might prove to be more expensive than the value of their milk and/or brush clearing.  It sounds like the fence panels would still be the best way to go, versatile, moveable, and not alot of infrastructure expense.  This way, if they aren't what you wanted or just not a "fit" you can get rid of them and the panels etc., pretty easily.   I honestly do not see  a couple of small NG's jumping over a 4+ ft fence, unless they are starving or extremely scared and panic.


Now keep in mind. This is not like a state park full of mature hardwoods, all picturesque and imptessive.  This is rugged, S.E. US forest. There's several "edges" where sunlight gets in, and those areas are solid with bushes, brush, weeds, and vines. I don't know if you're familiar with kudzu (and here in SC we always spit after saying that word, to get the taste out of our mouth) but one corner of the place is overrun with it. And on a warm summer day, you can actually SEE it grow if you have a few minutes to spare. Of course, this is one with NO experience speaking, but if I had a dependable and reasonably portable fencing system, I don't think two dwarfs could ever CATCH UP with the brush.
Yes. I think my mind is made up. I'll go with the 8' X 50" panels. I already have a 12' X 12' dog kennel, covered, for nighttime protection. A quick mini-barn for weather protection and I'm ready to go there. Still lots more I will need to do but like I said. This is a late spring/early summer goal. Plenty of time for thinking and prep.


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## farmerjan (Dec 10, 2019)

I may be a transplanted Yankee, and not ashamed of my roots....... BUT ..... we have Kudzu here in Va too.  Yep, if you stand still, it will grow over top of you.  I get the idea of the goat/sheep panels working better for the NG's.  Sounds like you have a good plan for them and as you said, you can think it out for a bit yet anyway.


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## Coolbreeze89 (Dec 10, 2019)

My Nigerian dwarf goats have never tried to jump the 4 ft fencing. I 100% agree that they need to have serious motivation (hunger/mating/fear) to even think about it.  I do have one part of my 4ft fence that has an old huge log right in front of it.  The goats could have easily jumped from the log over the fence.   Rather than move the log (HEAVY AND BIG!), we ran some 3ft rolled fencing along the top of the existing fence: overlapped a foot and ziptied it together, resulted in 2 ft higher ‘fence” in that small section. It has worked well in that small area, and something to consider if you have any “jumping assist” obstacles that you fence in.  

I think your panels will serve you and your goats well.


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## Xerocles (Dec 10, 2019)

Coolbreeze89 said:


> My Nigerian dwarf goats have never tried to jump the 4 ft fencing. I 100% agree that they need to have serious motivation (hunger/mating/fear) to even think about it.  I do have one part of my 4ft fence that has an old huge log right in front of it.  The goats could have easily jumped from the log over the fence.   Rather than move the log (HEAVY AND BIG!), we ran some 3ft rolled fencing along the top of the existing fence: overlapped a foot and ziptied it together, resulted in 2 ft higher ‘fence” in that small section. It has worked well in that small area, and something to consider if you have any “jumping assist” obstacles that you fence in.
> 
> I think your panels will serve you and your goats well.


You have no idea how much I appreciate hearing this. Of course I have zero experience with goats. I have used MANY hours researching online and it's all HORROR STORIES. It's almost like if El Chappo had a goat with him in SuperMax, he'd have no problem escaping. I guess the horror stories sell better. Oh, I appreciate hearing what I MAY be up against instead of learning the bad the hard way. But its reassuring to hear first-person that it's not ALWAYS a nightmare. Thanks.


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## MyFather'sSheep (Dec 10, 2019)

I haven't read everyone elsed post, but DH took down a chain link fence and we use that for out goats, sheep, and cow (not all mixed together). You actually do not want to use a tractor to pull the posts if it is old, or the metal could bend. He dug down until he hit the concrete, then used a hose with a high powered nosel to bladt the dirt from around the concrete enough for him to be able to rock the post back and forth and lift it out.


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## Coolbreeze89 (Dec 10, 2019)

Xerocles said:


> You have no idea how much I appreciate hearing this. Of course I have zero experience with goats. I have used MANY hours researching online and it's all HORROR STORIES. It's almost like if El Chappo had a goat with him in SuperMax, he'd have no problem escaping. I guess the horror stories sell better. Oh, I appreciate hearing what I MAY be up against instead of learning the bad the hard way. But its reassuring to hear first-person that it's not ALWAYS a nightmare. Thanks.



As someone who scouts BYH and other forums, I’ve been sucked in by the horror stories too many times!  I try to take everything with a grain (boulder)  of salt, and look for “general trends” (ie goats can be quite adept at escape) vs specific extremes (every goat will scale a 30ft fence...). I’m doing a little better (getting some of my own experience sure helps!).
I’m a former-suburb-dweller who now has happily retired to a hobby farm of goats, chickens, and pigs. Reading your posts always feels very familiar to my learning experiences.   We’ll catch up with all the experienced folks eventually! Ha!


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## FestiveOne (Dec 11, 2019)

I got the no climb horse fence from TSC. But got the 6ft stuff. And also ran two strands of hot wire. One at the top of the posts, and one around 2ft off the ground. Everyone respects the fence.  My back yard is like a fortress. I built it to be because I didnt want anything to happen to my babies after a neighbors dog was killed while in it's yard last summer.


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## Spokeless Wheel (Dec 11, 2019)

farmerjan said:


> If you are mostly all mature hardwood trees, even having 2 NG's might prove to be more expensive than the value of their milk and/or brush clearing.  It sounds like the fence panels would still be the best way to go, versatile, moveable, and not alot of infrastructure expense.  This way, if they aren't what you wanted or just not a "fit" you can get rid of them and the panels etc., pretty easily.   I honestly do not see  a couple of small NG's jumping over a 4+ ft fence, unless they are starving or extremely scared and panic.


I only have Nigerian Dwarf goats and yes they can jump a 6 foot fence without a problem.  Most of mine are good but I have one momma that is is a jumper and she has taught this little trick to her daughters. They walk up to the fence then back straight back and you can see it in their face they are caculating the jump. Then they go for it. She also uses corners to get out. She runs on an angle toward the corner then bounces off the other corner section and over she goes. Like farmerjan's cow; Special doesn't go anywhere she just likes to be free. The rest stay in the TSC cattle and goat panels without a problem. They are easy to move and work very well if you don't have a fence jumper. As farmerjan said a strand of electric on the top and inside to teach fence respect would probably work. I just never needed to make my fence that secure. I live in the middle of nowhere so if anyone gets out it really doesn't matter.  Good Luck


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## Ridgetop (Dec 11, 2019)

We had dairy goats and Boers. Lots of them. They would get out if a gate was unlocked (1 or 2 could open latches) but they did not jump much. Hard on those big udders. It sounds as if the escape artists and jumpers are the minis and pet goats. Our large standard Nubians and LaMamchas stayed put. Our fences then were poor and only about 42”-60” high. I think it depends on the goats. 
Why don’t you look into some meat sheep instead. Breeds like Dorpers browse as well as goats. Taste good too.


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## Xerocles (Dec 11, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> We had dairy goats and Boers. Lots of them. They would get out if a gate was unlocked (1 or 2 could open latches) but they did not jump much. Hard on those big udders. It sounds as if the escape artists and jumpers are the minis and pet goats. Our large standard Nubians and LaMamchas stayed put. Our fences then were poor and only about 42”-60” high. I think it depends on the goats.
> Why don’t you look into some meat sheep instead. Breeds like Dorpers browse as well as goats. Taste good too.


2 main goals. Brush and milk. Meat would be a rarity. Nigerians because they supposed have good temperments and delicious milk. And its only me, so volume is just about right. And, while I will spend some time with them, not looking for "pets" so want something manageable and not go feral if I don't brush it daily and read it bedtime stories. Oh, and I keep saying "it". I know that has to be plural.


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## Ridgetop (Dec 14, 2019)

Any milk goat that is milked 2x day is less likely to go feral than goats turned loose with no human interaction. 
You do realize that while NG milk yield sounds right air depends on the individual goat, age, number of lactations, quality and amount  of feed, etc.  The yields claimed by owners may not be correct since most owners do not weigh daily and keep records for a full 10 month lactation. Also since they are smal goats their teats are small and may not be easy to milk, especially if you have large hands.
As to taste, flavor varies according to their diet. Also according to breed. Nubian milk (hay fed) tastes most like rich cow’s milk, followed by LaMancha, the Swiss breeds, and Toggenburg being sharp and unpleasant. (good for cheese though)
Standard size dairy goats are easy to work with since you don’t have to do as much work bent over double.


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