# Is it ok to turn our sheep out to a pasture where there are lots of the foxtails?



## soarwitheagles (Mar 10, 2016)

Hi everyone!

Ok, I kinda blew it.  There was no way I could finish the fencing this winter.  Our back forest area is growing grass and forbs like crazy!  But when I checked the grass and forbs, I found a substantial amount of the fox tails...and all are still green.

I remember years ago a friend telling me the foxtails gave his dogs a heck of a lot of trouble, but I think this was after the foxtails were totally dried out and very brittle and sharp.

These fox tails are luscious looking and still very green and fresh.

I kind a wish I had the fence ready before the fox tails grew at the top of the grass, then the sheep would have eaten down before the appearance of the foxtails.

And now, the million dollar question:

Is it ok to turn our sheep out to a pasture where there are lots of the foxtails?

Thanks,

Soar


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## babsbag (Mar 11, 2016)

They can eat the foxtails when they are green and soft. Just make sure they don't get in dry ones. Have a friend that lost a goat when a foxtail went into the brain. Don't remember if it entered through the eye or nose but doesn't matter, it had the same horrible outcome. I am a stickler for keeping them cut in the dog's yard.  

They are actually supposed to be very nutritious when green. 

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=PRP19130308.2.2


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 12, 2016)

Babsbag,

Thank you for the heads up!  I hope to have all fencing finished by the end of the week, then turn these natural lawnmowers loose!  Sure is gonna be fun to watch!


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## Bossroo (Mar 16, 2016)

I had issues logging on to this site for the last 2 weeks, but now I hope this is solved.   Yes, foxtail grass seed heads will bury into animals' gums, skin, and anywhere they get an opportunity to enter the skin.  I have seen them migrate into the nasal cavity, eye, brain, heart, liver, kidney, etc. on autopsied cattle, sheep, goats, dogs, cats, etc. .  However, these occuransies are fairly rare as I have seen animals' mouths  packed with the seed heads stuck in the teeth and gums, then the animals recover with no ill effects since the seed heads fail to migrate any further. My own sheep flocks were on foxtail pastures for years and I didn't have any serious issues with any of the sheep except on a few that had them in the eye, but recovered completely after I pulled the foxtails out.


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## Baymule (Mar 16, 2016)

How's the fence coming along? Pictures??


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## Latestarter (Mar 16, 2016)

Boss's input seems like great news! Get the fencing finished and let those self propelled pasture mowers loose!


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 19, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> I had issues logging on to this site for the last 2 weeks, but now I hope this is solved.   Yes, foxtail grass seed heads will bury into animals' gums, skin, and anywhere they get an opportunity to enter the skin.  I have seen them migrate into the nasal cavity, eye, brain, heart, liver, kidney, etc. on autopsied cattle, sheep, goats, dogs, cats, etc. .  However, these occuransies are fairly rare as I have seen animals' mouths  packed with the seed heads stuck in the teeth and gums, then the animals recover with no ill effects since the seed heads fail to migrate any further. My own sheep flocks were on foxtail pastures for years and I didn't have any serious issues with any of the sheep except on a few that had them in the eye, but recovered completely after I pulled the foxtails out.



Wow Bossroo,

After reading your post it appears as if we wouldn't have a problem...but to play it safe, in the future, I would like to place sheep out in the fox tail areas and let them eat the grass, forbs, etc. BEFORE the foxtails appear.  Unfortunately, it is too late for that here now!



Baymule said:


> How's the fence coming along? Pictures??



I haven't even installed any fencing up in our planted pastures...still haven't found the time.  Presently, I am thinking to simply fence our orchard and grape vineyards, then let the sheep loose to graze everything [temporary solution].



Latestarter said:


> Boss's input seems like great news! Get the fencing finished and let those self propelled pasture mowers loose!



Working on it...I did just finish a small portion of fencing in the back area that is adjacent to the thick eucalyptus forest.  This was kind of a test...and, the sheep are loving the foxtails, grasses, etc.  Now to see how long it takes for them to eat it all up.  It is a 100ft. by 100ft. test area.  There are 10+ more acres of this type of unplanted natural grass that comes up every year on our property.  My rancher friend says he thinks we could populate with up to 50 sheep for 5-6 months per year on this part of the land.

I am hoping to mend a couple of areas of the fencing out back, install electric fence wire on top and on bottom, and then next year, allow 25-50 sheep out there.

I am attaching a pic of the back area with our sheep grazing/browsing.  We call it the "Jungle" for now...


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## Latestarter (Mar 19, 2016)

Man, that looks like herbivore heaven! I'm sure they are loving it. It looks so lush and green!


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 19, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Man, that looks like herbivore heaven! I'm sure they are loving it. It looks so lush and green!



LS,

Yes, they love it.  I just let them out a couple of minutes ago and they all ran to the grass and began to chomp it down rapidly.  They appear to be able to self monitor too...they don't eat too much.  They eat like crazy, then lay down with a big smile.

I just posted more pics.  Man, I wish I could have figured this out sooner.  We could have had sheep eating free food for 5-6 months for years.

This present El Nino is causing all the grass and forbs, etc. to grow like crazy, and we may have rain all the way up to the end of May.

I would like to prepare all this area for sheep to graze and browse.  It's gonna take some time.

I spent a couple of days repairing fencing and installing new fence and it was only 100ft. by 100ft.  You can see the new fence in the pic I posted.  To be 100% honest with everyone, installing fencing is much more time consuming than I ever realized.  How can I possibly install another 2000ft. in a one week period?  I think I need to be superman...


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 19, 2016)

Baymule said:


> How's the fence coming along? Pictures??



It is coming along slowly but surely.  I have posted some pics...


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## Latestarter (Mar 19, 2016)

soarwitheagles said:


> I spent a couple of days repairing fencing and installing new fence and it was only 100ft. by 100ft. You can see the new fence in the pic I posted. To be 100% honest with everyone, installing fencing is much more time consuming than I ever realized. How can I possibly install another 2000ft. in a one week period? I think I need to be superman...



I recommend you do it the same way we all do... 1 foot at a time or maybe that should be 8-10 feet at a time between poles. So if you install 300' per day you'll have it done in a week... should be easy right? You just do what you can, a little at a time until you get it done.

Most animals self regulate pretty well... I don't and so am way over my best weight.


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 19, 2016)

Nice words of encouragement LS!

Thank you!  I will continue, one foot at a time...

Speaking of self regulating...my wife treated me last night to an all you can eat seafood/prime-rib buffet and....well, uh, well, we had best change the subject!  

Let's put it this way: The sheep were way better at self regulating their eating habits last night compared to me!  They needed a wheel barrow to get me home!


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## Latestarter (Mar 19, 2016)

MMMmmmmmm surf & turf... one of my all time fave combos


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## Baymule (Mar 19, 2016)

Fencing is so much fun....... I found a handsome Dorper ram to buy. But of course I have to build.....(drumroll please)...... you guessed it, MORE FENCE. I have to build him a pen until his services are needed. The lady is nice enough to hold him for me. My husband had knee replacement surgery last month and is not back to himself yet.


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 19, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> MMMmmmmmm surf & turf... one of my all time fave combos



Yes, my wife likes to seafood, and I like the steak.  She took me out to a place where you can eat all the lobster, king crab, prime-rib, and hundreds of other dishes....long story short, I am set for an entire year now [I will not go back for at least one entire year].  For me, eating at places like that are not healthy because most of us want to eat our full money's worth...and afterward, I feel like a blimp ready to explode!



Baymule said:


> Fencing is so much fun....... I found a handsome Dorper ram to buy. But of course I have to build.....(drumroll please)...... you guessed it, MORE FENCE. I have to build him a pen until his services are needed. The lady is nice enough to hold him for me. My husband had knee replacement surgery last month and is not back to himself yet.



Nice find on your Dorper ram Baymule!  So sorry about your hubby's knee replacement...I hope he recovers soon!

May I ask how much you picked it up for?

We have begun to lay fence again today.  Later this week, we hope to tackle all 2000 ft.  This evening I began the post hole digging for the gates.  I am burning all the calories that I put on at the buffet.

We also picked up thousands of the t-post clips this evening, so we are now ready to lay down thousands of feet of fence!  Here's the best part of all: We have been having some very large rain storms come in Dec., and March.  The ground is what is called super saturated.  This evening, when I began to set poles with the post hole digger I was pleasantly surprised...soft as warm butter!  Yeah!

Thanks!


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## Ferguson K (Mar 19, 2016)

If I had a pasture that green...

We're saturated in yaupon and briar patches. 

Looks great!!!


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## Baymule (Mar 20, 2016)

The ram is 5 months old and cost $250. I can't wait to get my ram!


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 21, 2016)

Baymule said:


> The ram is 5 months old and cost $250. I can't wait to get my ram!



Wow, these Dorper's sure can be expensive!  Good luck on your Dorper adventure!


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## Mike CHS (Mar 21, 2016)

$250 and up is about normal in our neck of the woods for Katahdins.  Dorper are a bit more but they aren't as common around us.  We looked at some Katahdins over the weekend not far from us but I'm trying not to put the cart before the sheep again.


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## purplequeenvt (Mar 21, 2016)

soarwitheagles said:


> Wow, these Dorper's sure can be expensive!  Good luck on your Dorper adventure!



$250 is actually pretty cheap for a Dorper.


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## Bossroo (Mar 21, 2016)

I have seen another 0 added on !


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 21, 2016)

purplequeenvt said:


> $250 is actually pretty cheap for a Dorper.



Purplequeen,

Then I suppose I need to count my blessings.  I think I picked up my two Dorpers lambs for $65 each.  I saw a flock of 10 go for $55 each.  My rancher friend and I were gonna pick up 16 lambs up in Redding for $120 each, but I procrastinated too long and the gentleman sold them before we could get up there.  I think prices may also vary according to location!  I couldn't afford to pay $250 for any sheep, unless it poops gold nuggets!


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 21, 2016)

Mike CHS said:


> $250 and up is about normal in our neck of the woods for Katahdins.  Dorper are a bit more but they aren't as common around us.  We looked at some Katahdins over the weekend not far from us but I'm trying not to put the cart before the sheep again.



Wow!  I never realized the Dorper's are that expensive in your neck of the woods.  I would only be able to afford to pay $250 per head if the sheep poops golden nuggets, eats all our weeds in one day, never requires any shots or vitamins, and can baby sit our children for free as she sings lullaby's at bedtime !


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## Baymule (Mar 21, 2016)

The same lady also has a 2 year old ram for $550, but she said he could be quite a handful. I like the 5 month old for $250 much better! We got real lucky on the purchase of our ewes, they were half Dorper, half Katahdin and bred to a Katahdin ram for $220 each. So 3 of the lambs are ewes and I'll keep them, they are 1/4 Dorper and 3/4 Katahdin. I might cough up the dough some day for registered Dorpers, but for right now, being a total sheep newbie, crossbreds are just fine.

And Bossroo is right, registered breeding stock can have several zeros in the price!


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 21, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> I have seen another 0 added on !



Bossroo,

I had no clue what the added zero you mentioned was until Baymule clarified.  Wow, that is crazy!


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 21, 2016)

Special Update:

We have been letting our entire flock loose into all sorts of grazing/browsing opportunities for the first time ever.  Here is what I have noticed so far:

1. Now they cry and call my name repeatedly to be let out of their pen.  They never did that before.  Oh my!
2. They run and leap and twirl and I have never seen that before either!
3. They are incredibly selective eating creatures [they appear to like the furbs (miner's leaf lettuce) more than anything else at the moment].
4. If I do not feed them anything in the pen [hay, grains, cut greens], then they appear to develop an incredible appetite and will graze/browse for hours.
5. They do eat foxtails, but it is low on their totem pole of desirable treats.

Finally, I am digging post holes and setting posts like crazy now.  These are needed for all the gates.  Tomorrow will begin the easier process of pounding in the t-posts and attaching the woven wire.

Hope to have it all done in a few days.  Then, if time permits, will walk the back 10 acres, fixing and patching the old fencing and hopefully turn some flocks loose there too.

I do have a question: if a neighbor and friend is spending $25 per day feeding cheap bales of grass and then $50 per day feeding his flocks alfalfa hay bales, what would be a reasonable amount to charge him to let his flocks of 30-50 graze our back 10 acres?

Please give me some kind of idea on this.  I have never done this before.

Thank you,

Soar


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## Latestarter (Mar 21, 2016)

If he's spending $75 a day now, how many head is he feeding? Since he's a neighbor and friend, why not ask him what he'd be thinking for a daily rate and adjust from there? For me, a lot would depend on how many head he'd be running back there...


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 21, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> If he's spending $75 a day now, how many head is he feeding? Since he's a neighbor and friend, why not ask him what he'd be thinking for a daily rate and adjust from there? For me, a lot would depend on how many head he'd be running back there...



Well, actually, he is spending $25 on some days [when he feeds the cheap grass hay], and $50 a day when he feeds the alfalfa hay.

Is there much of a nutritional difference?  I have pastures mixes now with 50% annual rye, 15% brom, 20% clover, 5% chickory, 5% trefoil, and some turnips.

In the back we have 10 or more acres of grass and furbs.  What's a good price?


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## Latestarter (Mar 21, 2016)

Still don't know how many head... So just based on what you've said I'd be thinking $125-150 per week.


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 22, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Still don't know how many head... So just based on what you've said I'd be thinking $125-150 per week.



I think he has a total of 100-200.  He is a very kind person and also a dear friend.  But I have spent well over $6000 already on equipment feed, seed, fencing, etc.

I would like to give him a super good deal, but at least attempt to recoup some of my costs...


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## Latestarter (Mar 22, 2016)

200 head on 10 acres is going to strip it down pretty quick... 20 head to an acre... even 10 head/acre... I don't have any idea what the carrying capacity is of the back pasture, but that many animals could potentially strip it to nubs in a week, maybe 2... Is there a water source for them back there also? They'll need access to water. I'm sorry, this is way above my competency level to even rationally discuss... I hope you'll keep us posted on how you proceed and the outcome.


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 23, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> 200 head on 10 acres is going to strip it down pretty quick... 20 head to an acre... even 10 head/acre... I don't have any idea what the carrying capacity is of the back pasture, but that many animals could potentially strip it to nubs in a week, maybe 2... Is there a water source for them back there also? They'll need access to water. I'm sorry, this is way above my competency level to even rationally discuss... I hope you'll keep us posted on how you proceed and the outcome.



Latestarter, wow, I suppose most sheep eat much more than I ever realized!

I am so new to all of this.  In fact, this is the first and second weeks of my entire life that I allowed the sheep to graze on their own.  We are experimenting on all of this...

So here is what I have learned so far:

When I let 13 sheep and 5 lambs loose in a fenced in area 100ft. x 100ft with wild grasses and greens and forbs and forested Eucalyptus trees, they ate like crazy, but even after two weeks, there is still a lot left!  They are by no means done with this parcel of land or paddock.  There is still quite a bit of grass growing.  But I did supplement with a tiny bit of grain every 3 days or so.

The front pastures are much thicker, much more stronger, much more lush, and was planted specifically for sheep.  I believe the sheep would require much longer to eat the pastured planted areas than the forested areas.

Man, I am beginning to think I really should have purchased the 16 Dorpers that were made available to me last week!  Is it possible I am gonna need an army of sheep now to mow all this territory?

Last, yes, I can easily either cut a line or run a temp. water hose to provide water for the sheep in the back acreage.


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## Latestarter (Mar 23, 2016)

Go for it... Help your neighbor and we'll all find out how strong the pasture is... It'll save you having to mow it!


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## Bossroo (Mar 23, 2016)

HINT :   I would have the neighbor / friend first worm all of his sheep at least 3 days before he brings his sheep to graze your pastures so that your pastures are NOT infested with a boat load of parasite eggs which potentially could cause you parasite issues in the future for your sheep. Traditionally pasture rent has been x amount per head per day.    What you charge is up to you.


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## Baymule (Mar 23, 2016)

I would buy more sheep. my name is Baymule and I am addicted to sheep.......


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 23, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> HINT :   I would have the neighbor / friend first worm all of his sheep at least 3 days before he brings his sheep to graze your pastures so that your pastures are NOT infested with a boat load of parasite eggs which potentially could cause you parasite issues in the future for your sheep. Traditionally pasture rent has been x amount per head per day.    What you charge is up to you.



Bossroo,

What would be a decent price to rent the prime planted pasture that was planted specifically for sheep?


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 23, 2016)

Baymule said:


> I would buy more sheep. my name is Baymule and I am addicted to sheep.......



Yes, but now my concern is I am not sure if I can tend to double or triple the amount of sheep.  With the newest lambs, we are up to 18 now, with 6-7 more in the near future.


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## Latestarter (Mar 23, 2016)

Why would you be tending to them? They belong to the neighbor... tending them should be his responsibility, not yours. You're simply renting him  the food source.


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 23, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Why would you be tending to them? They belong to the neighbor... tending them should be his responsibility, not yours. You're simply renting him  the food source.



LS,

Oh, I am sorry!  I thought you recommended that  I purchase more sheep.  At this time, I need to focus on finishing all the fencing.  So even though I wanted to purchase a good number of Dorpers, right now, I need to finish all the fencing.

EDIT: Oh, I just realized it was Baymule that recommended I purchase more sheep.  I think financially, purchasing sheep and placing them on our new pastures is the way to go...but for right now, I am up to my ears in work...so for now, I will postpone purchasing any new sheep...


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 29, 2016)

Well, we finally completed a portion of the fencing in the pasture and the sheep are thriving!  They appear to be eating the rye grass, clovers, brom, chicory, trefoil, etc. non stop. We have placed them out in the pasture now for over one full week, and they are loving it.  No signs of bloat, but I am looking for a good deal on 50# of baking soda for free choice anyway.

Dang, even the newborns are eating grass...

We had some ewes deliver twins.  So the population recently grew from 11 to 20.  Wow, these flocks grow fast!


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## Latestarter (Mar 29, 2016)

wow, look at that pasture! It could be someone's front lawn! You, sir, have some very pampered/well fed sheep! Can't imagine why the neighbor would want his sheep to eat there... Glad the fencing is coming along... I know it probably seems like no end in sight.


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## soarwitheagles (Mar 29, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> wow, look at that pasture! It could be someone's front lawn! You, sir, have some very pampered/well fed sheep! Can't imagine why the neighbor would want his sheep to eat there... Glad the fencing is coming along... I know it probably seems like no end in sight.



LS, thanks for your encouraging words!  To be honest with you, the corners and hanging all the gates are what's taking most of the time...the t-posts and the fencing goes in super fast...I think we already have 1000 ft. done.

I think I need some better ideas for the corners and the gates...I have tried 3 different designs of corners and gates, but not so sure what's the best way to go...

I will post some pics and ask for some advice soon...


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