# Non-Climb 2"x4" Horse Wire Fence



## Baymule

There have been a lot of fence discussions here on BYH. As many of you know, my husband and I bought a home on 8 acres and moved 160 miles to be close to our DD, DSIL and our precious 2 grand daughters. There was nothing here but the house. Nothing. We had a house in town and acreage outside of town where we kept our horses, at our previous place. We had already made a lot of fencing mistakes. We used field fencing, which the horses could hang a hoof in and they pawed it to pieces in some places. Repairs were an ongoing project. We also stapled fence to trees where they were on the property line. Big boo-boo. Do you know what happens to the fence when the tree dies and falls down? Or when a storm blows the tree over? I do and I also know what it feels like to kick myself for making dumb mistakes. There was also a dry wash running through our previous land that turned into a raging, flooding river when there was a lot of rain. We had run the field fence across the dry wash and floods knocked it flat. Floods uprooted fence posts too. We sunk new fence posts deeper, concreted them in, and wired them to trees up to 10 feet away as anchors. After every hard rain, I was walking fence line to see if I needed to make repairs.

I was determined not to repeat the mistakes I had already made. I did my research. I waffled on the goat/sheep wire, but ultimately decided on the horse wire. My husband almost fainted on the cost, but got on board when I explained that it would keep all our animals in, even down to the chickens. It would also keep out other animals we didn't want on our place, so we bit the bullet and moved forward with the fence. I took lots of pictures, so I hope this helps some one else on putting up their fence. These are pictures of different segments of the fences we put up.

Edited to add; Thank you @Mini Horses for pointing out this is NOT welded wire, which IMO is total crap, as it comes apart under very little usage. This is WOVEN wire, look closely at the pictures and you can see the knot that holds the wire together at every single intersection of the wires. This is why woven wire costs so much more than welded wire. Most of equate "welded" with strength, I know I did, having worked in machine and welding shops when I was younger. But this does not apply to fence wire. Never, ever, waste your money or time on welded wire unless you want it purely for decoration, it will NOT last 'till the water gets hot, up against livestock or even dogs.

It is important to set sturdy corner posts, properly braced. For this corner post, we cut a red cedar tree and cut it to post lengths.






You can make a wire loop, stapled at the top and bottom of opposing posts, insert a screwdriver or a stick, and twist the wire to tighten up the posts. It also serves to keep the posts from spreading or moving apart. The wire twist can be seen in the photo below. You can even cris-cross the wires to form an X for added strength.





You will want to run a string from corner to corner and measure the string for spacing the T-posts. I marked the string with surveyors tape so I would know where to pound the T-posts.





For a short span, we stretched the wire from corner to corner, measured and marked the wire for driving the T-posts. This span was 70 feet.





This is my husband pushing the wire out while our neighbor pounds in the T-post.





In some places the ground was so hard, we had to get the T-post started, water it, let it soak, pound another inch or two, water it, water it some more, it felt like we were planting trees! A few of them had to soak overnight.


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## Baymule

Hanging a gate. My husband made fun of me for all the gates I insisted on, but plan carefully for ease of movement for livestock. We used 12' gates and in a few places where swing room mattered, we used 16' gates.





Pictures can be worth more than words!










Home made T-post driver. It is heavier than a store bought, the top (you can see the weld) is 2" of iron. I lifted it high and slammed it down. Over and over. It sure made a T-post move!


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## Baymule

One stretch of fence we did was a thicket. We had to chainsaw, hack and brush hog our way down the property line. We had to cut trees and because we aren't wasteful, we cut them into firewood.





















Our neighbor Robert, brought over his log splitter and I split logs and stacked firewood.





We put the fence on hold, to stack up firewood. We don't even have a fireplace or wood burning heater. (wish we did) But Robert has a fireplace, our daughter and family has a fireplace, and we cut the biggest tree on another neighbor's land because it was right up against the property line, and he has a fireplace. So everyone got a lot of split firewood!






Building fence isn't always about posts and wire. Sometimes you have to clear a path through the wilderness before you can even get started on the fence.


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## Baymule

Got it started, now to roll it on out.





Have to go around the stump.





The tree just beyond the stump wouldn't move, so I had to pull out a T-post to get the wire rolled past it.









Ran out of wire before I ran out of posts.





So close yet so far away!





Notice the long wires? Those long wires are at the start and end of every roll. I used them to weave another piece on. I cut a 30' piece which gave me enough to stretch with.


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## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> Ran out of wire before I ran out of posts.


Dontcha hate it when that happens?

Usually though - I run out of energy before I run out of anything else!  

Fence looks great - I half-way know how much work that was...we just re-fenced 4 acres summer '14.


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## Baymule

I plopped my butt down in the dirt and over lapped the roll ends in my lap.





I used a pair of side cutter pliers to twist the wire ends together.














I reached as far as I could from one side, then had to sit on the other side to complete it. I just searched my pictures and could not find a picture of a completed splice, so I'll have to take a picture tomorrow and post it. I hope this pictorial helps!


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## Mike CHS

Very nice tutorial and hopefully a restful evening for all.


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## Ponker

Awesome fence! I can appreciate all your work! We just fenced eight acres (well three sides) and it was monumental! We're still cutting up the downed trees and burning the brush piles from putting the fence up 'the right way'. We didn't attach the fence to trees either. We had to cut a beautiful white oak and I was horrified to see it come down but it was directly in the fence line. We're sharing all the wood with our neighbors. 

Kudos to you! Great job on that fence. it was hard work but a job well done is so satisfying.


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## ShadowsFIAL

Thank you so much for posting this! It is very educational and helpful for folks like me who have only put up a tiny fence for dogs and chickens~


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## Baymule

ShadowsFIAL said:


> Thank you so much for posting this! It is very educational and helpful for folks like me who have only put up a tiny fence for dogs and chickens~


If you have questions, ask away! When you start on your fence, don't hesitate to ask questions, somebody here will be able to answer.


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## Ferguson K

What?  No pictures of the fence being stretched ?! 

Guessing the tractor pulled it tight. 

We used a ratchet.


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## babsbag

Awesome fence. Our land is everything but level so fencing here is really a challenge. I am the official fence stretcher and I usually hire young blood to drive the posts. We have a pneumatic fence post driver but usually no power where the fence is and the generator is just too hard to haul up and down the hills on the tractor. Love the added weight to the driver, but picking it up and putting it on the posts would about kill me. 

I have oak trees, lots of oak trees, and the mighty oaks seldom blow over and if they do die it takes them FOREVER to fall over so I do use them for posts whenever I can. They make great corner posts. I only have one corner of fencing that we had to make a real corner brace for, the rest are trees. Lazy...perhaps...but they will outlive me. 

I am thinking of buying 16 acres and the thought of fencing it terrifies me.


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## Latestarter

I hear you on that note Babs... I'm trying to find a property with a minimum of 20 acres (up to as much as I can get - looked at several approaching 100 acres). I won't/can't fence the whole thing right off, but the prospect, even done over time, is quite daunting.


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## babsbag

Especially daunting when I want 2x4 no climb $$$ with no barbed wire and hot wire top and bottom...top to keep critters out, bottom to keep LGD in. She respects that wire.


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## Latestarter

What I'm really worried about is if there's already some (bad) fencing done and I have to rip all that out first, then clean everything up before I can even start... No sense getting all wound up about it till the time comes and the evaluation is complete I guess. Plenty of time to gripe about it down the road...


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## Mike CHS

I may change my mind later but my longest perimeter has a railroad/railroad tunnel for a border and the old shared fence would take a dozer to clear out. I'm going to put new fence inside the property line enough that I can maintain the outside without having to fight with the undergrowth around the tunnel entrance.  It (the tunnel) goes under our driveway so we own some useless property on both sides of it.


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## Mini Horses

The 2X4 you used is WOVEN -- anyone not familiar, there is also a welded and that just comes apart eventually.    My fence was put up 15 yrs ago....used a lot of field fence and hot wire inside.   That fence is now being replaced with the 2X4 woven where I don't already have it, an area at a time.   The field fence is not good without the hot wire for mini horses & goats.  I just don't know who rubs on it more!!   I run a hot wire about
2-2.5 feet up to prevent this.  Worth gold to save that expensive fence from being stretched out. Some additional T-posts in line have preserved the field fence in several areas as it does stretch badly.  I have 3 solar hot boxes that were ALSO worth the expense!   15 acres, fenced & cross-fenced is expensive, time consuming and hard, hard work.   Luckily (?) I had a parcel that had been crop farmed for a long time, so no trees --- have them now --- and yes, growth on the existing fence is a mess to clean up.    A few yrs of non-attention to that growth created a real mess!  Shame on ME.   But, life happens.

I actually have an alley the entire length of my farm (which is rectangular), down the center,  and use that to move animals from pasture to pasture, drive thru for feed, equipment move, etc.  So, pastures are off to each side, and there are several, all with gates onto alley.  Some have gates between them for access without going into the  alley/driveway.  I mow it, etc. and sometimes turn a few animals into to graze.  It is gated at each end.  Being only one here to do the work, this method has worked great for herding by a single!

I loved your pictorial and the explanations of past mistakes.   It is helpful to any who haven't fenced and a reminder for those of us who also have mistake issues  that we are now re-working.   I like the gates with the fenced bottom. Mine are tube type and if graduated at bottoms are ok for keeping adult animals...the goat kids go back to mom anyway...if I want to limit any, I can add some fence but, pain in butt.

GREAT JOB !   Now, enjoy the accomplishment.


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## Baymule

Good point @Mini Horses I will go back to my first post and clarify that.

I found more pictures! This series is on putting on the clips that come with the T-posts. If not properly put on, they will pop right off when an animal rubs against the fence. And of course, using the horse wire, the smaller holes makes it harder to get a tight wrap on the clips, as pliers and such won't go through the smaller holes.

T-post clips 101.  This is a clip.







Once you put the clip in place, and this is where many people stop, you have to wrap the clip around the wire. Sticking a screwdriver through the loop and using it to wrap the clip is the easiest (for me). Because the hole is 2"x4" I used one of those real short screwdrivers. 



Having a nosy helper makes the job go easier.





Then I used channel locks to put a further wrap on the clip. You could use these, pliers or fencing pliers-whichever is best for you.





Do both sides!





Then you have a tight-wrapped clip holding the wire in place. Animals can rub on the fence now and the clips won't pop off!


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## Baymule

Ferguson K said:


> What?  No pictures of the fence being stretched ?!
> 
> Guessing the tractor pulled it tight.
> 
> We used a ratchet.


I will have to get pictures of stretching the fence. We still have a stretch to go. Yes we used the tractor and sometimes a come along. We used a piece of 5/8" rebar, 6' long, and wove it in and out of the end of the wire. We folded the wire back, doubling it for added strength. Wrapped a chain around both ends of the rebar, and hooked the clevis hooks on the front end bucket, tilted the bucket down, backed the tractor up until the fence was tight. Then to get it really tight, I tilted the bucket back towards the driver's seat, which made the fence "twang" tight and sometimes lifted the front end of the tractor off the ground.


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## Latestarter

wow, now that's tight!


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## misfitmorgan

We have to finish fencing off 20acres...no way is no climb in the budget. So we are using the red top woven wire field fence. As far as animals walking it down etc we put a hot hip wire and a hot top wire that keeps them off the fence, even the sheep.


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## greybeard

Tee post clip tool--it's hollow on one end. Made by Dare. You'll throw your pliers away after you use it a couple times. 






IMO, this type isn't worth the energy involved in throwing it away:


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## misfitmorgan

Yep that definitely look a lot more handy then fencing pliers...i need me one lol.


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## Baymule

greybeard said:


> Tee post clip tool--it's hollow on one end. Made by Dare. You'll throw your pliers away after you use it a couple times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMO, this type isn't worth the energy involved in throwing it away:


OOOOOHHHHH.......... a tool I don't have! I definitely need one of these!


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Good point @Mini Horses I will go back to my first post and clarify that.
> 
> I found more pictures! This series is on putting on the clips that come with the T-posts. If not properly put on, they will pop right off when an animal rubs against the fence. And of course, using the horse wire, the smaller holes makes it harder to get a tight wrap on the clips, as pliers and such won't go through the smaller holes.


Look at your clip. See how wide the vee is that you have your screwdriver in?
compare that angle to the one in the pic below. It's more of a 'u' shape.





Both pictures in comparison illustrate why I said the tool above is not worth having. They either first squeezed the vee  of the clip to form a tight 'u' so it wouldn't spread open when bending it around the wire, or bought tee post clips that are different than 99% of the clips in the world. Tedious enough to install several hundred (or thousand) clips without having to first bend each vee into a 'u'. 
1. I hate and just refuse to use aluminum tee post clips--gotta be galv steel.*
2. I quit doing business altogether with a local vendor when, for the 2nd time in 6 months, they neglected to load the bags of clips along with the bundles of tee posts and I had to drive back into town--this after telling the girl at the counter to Make Sure the guys on the dock put the clips on the truck. She assured me they would.

* careful with those steel tee post clips. On one of my longer runs, my wife was installing clips about 1/2 way down the fence and I was on the other end. I hear this 'piennng!' and immediately knew what it was--she had tightened one so tight on that 15.5ga Hi Tension wire that she broke the wire.


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## Southern by choice

Question- Why did you wrap the fence around the corner post?

We have always been told by the "real" old time farmers each length should be cut and wrapped at the corner... new run should be wrapped and run for that length. Just going around a corner and stapling doesn't give strength to fence.

All the cattle farmers here do it this way... 

@greybeard  what do you say? Does it make a difference?

or does it makes a difference for those who use t-post between wood post only?

It is TIME consuming so if not necessary I sure want to know


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## Baymule

@Southern by choice I guess I didn't have any old timers giving me pointers on how to put up a fence. It didn't seem to make sense to cut the wire, stretch it, staple it, cut off the excess and start over. We stretched the wire, stapled it, pulled the rebar out of the wire (we wove it in and out of the holes to pull with) went around the corner and took off again. Does it make a difference?


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## Baymule

greybeard said:


> 1. I hate and just refuse to use aluminum tee post clips--gotta be galv steel.*
> 2. I quit doing business altogether with a local vendor when, for the 2nd time in 6 months, they neglected to load the bags of clips along with the bundles of tee posts and I had to drive back into town--this after telling the girl at the counter to Make Sure the guys on the dock put the clips on the truck. She assured me they would.
> 
> .



I have bags and bags of extras that I get every time I buy T-posts. Probably the ones you didn't get....


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## Southern by choice

Baymule said:


> @Southern by choice I guess I didn't have any old timers giving me pointers on how to put up a fence. It didn't seem to make sense to cut the wire, stretch it, staple it, cut off the excess and start over. We stretched the wire, stapled it, pulled the rebar out of the wire (we wove it in and out of the holes to pull with) went around the corner and took off again. Does it make a difference?



Don't know cuz we never did it the other way.
We use a stretcher - we made this one.. easier and more stable than a bar... easy to make... in the woods we don't have the ability to do a tractor pull so we use the straps and come-a-longs.


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## greybeard

> We have always been told by the "real" old time farmers each length should be cut and wrapped at the corner... new run should be wrapped and run for that length. Just going around a corner and stapling doesn't give strength to fence


Well, I never try to pull 'around' a 90 deg corner, no matter what kind of fencing I am putting up, and without reading back thru the text, I doubt he did either.
What I suspect he did, was
1. Tied on at starting post, wrapping the wire around the anchor post, and tying each horizontal strand back to the wire--maybe stapling for good measure.
2.  unroll from starting point, until he reached the corner, then pulled the first leg of the fence tight, stapled it good to the corner and one vertical brace.
3. Then unrolled down the other leg of the 90, pulled it tight, wrapped the ends around the anchor of the end point and tie all end strands back into the tight wire, staple to a vertical brace of the end point, went back to the first corner, stapled to the other vertical brace post.

I do not like to do it that way regardless of what kind of fence I put up--barbed, HT slick wire, or knotted field fence. 
I:
1. Tie to start point, unroll down ffirst leg of the run to the corner. Pul tension on the first leg. Staple good to the cornor anchor post and first  vertical brace post. 
2. Release tension from my stretcher, Cut the  wire, leaving enough to wrap around the corner and tie the strand(s) back into the tightened wire.
3. Wrap the wire around the same corner anchor we just tied to, Unroll down the 2nd leg, pull that leg tension, staple good to the end point, release tension, cut wire-again long enough to wrap around end post and tie strands back into the tightened wire.

Why go to the extra work?? This means that corner never "sees" anything but 2 separate straight pulls--90 deg apart, nor will that corner post ever as feel much tension pushing it inwards. I see lots of corner posts and their 2 braces around here leaning because of them basically making that corner part of one fence.

 It also prevents anything catastrophic that happens on one leg of the fence from affecting tension on the other leg, since they are in effect, 2 completely separate fence, tied to 2 separate ends, but sharing a common corner. 'Catastrophic in my world means a tree fell on the fence, or the river too the fence that runs along it--I don't want the river fence to affect the 2 fences leading down to that river fence.. 

Pretty much a personal preference tho. If it works, it works.


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## Southern by choice

@greybeard


greybeard said:


> I:
> 1. Tie to start point, unroll down ffirst leg of the run to the corner. Pul tension on the first leg. Staple good to the cornor anchor post and first vertical brace post.
> 2. Release tension from my stretcher, Cut the wire, leaving enough to wrap around the corner and tie the strand(s) back into the tightened wire.
> 3. Wrap the wire around the same corner anchor we just tied to, Unroll down the 2nd leg, pull that leg tension, staple good to the end point, release tension, cut wire-again long enough to wrap around end post and tie strands back into the tightened wire.


 that is how we do it too. We were told that and so we did.
Glad to know it wasn't a waste of time.

We have had trees fall and the fence held... we also had the LGD's break a T-post and rip the fence going after a coyote (or something they didn't like) fortunately the fence held tight. 



greybeard said:


> I see lots of corner posts and their 2 braces around here leaning because of them basically making that corner part of one fence.



We have seen that on a few of our friends fencing. Within a few years their fence was falling over. I thought it might have been them not pulling it tight... we see that alot.

Thanks


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## Southern by choice

@Baymule 

one thing we learned was gate latches! Oh how I wish I would have had someone tell me about these....

When we move all our gates will have these! I hate the chains and clips they are a PITA! 

http://surelatch.com/6-gate-latches


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## greybeard

Southern by choice said:


> @Baymule
> 
> one thing we learned was gate latches! Oh how I wish I would have had someone tell me about these....
> 
> When we move all our gates will have these! I hate the chains and clips they are a PITA!
> 
> http://surelatch.com/6-gate-latches



A word those latches... They are good latches, and I use them but they can use some tweaking if they are going to be under any stress by large animals, including anything that might run into the gate. I've seen 200-300lb calves hit the gate and spring those latches that have the round barstock on the gate. I've had them move just by repeated swinging the gate closed and when the pin hits the latch, the bracket twists a little bit each time, and then one day, I noticed the bracket on the gate was barely being captured by the swinging metal part of the post. 

Here's the fix--bear with me, because I don't have access to my photobucket account right now to post an image of the tweaked latch...

The below latches are installed correctly, but the 2 bolts that pinch the gate side portion of the latch to the gate will never tighten enough to ensure that part won't twist on the tube if the gate gets hit hard. Most times, you can just push real hard on the gate and that bracket will twist around on the gate tube. This can't  happen if you have a pin or lock in the holes provided for a padlock, but having to lock it each time kinda defeats the purpose of an easy latch gate.  

option1: Install both parts of the latch in such a position, that the 2 bolts are positioned one above, and one below the horizontal tube of the gate. In the below pic, you would just move the entire latch assembly up about 4 inches to the next horizontal tube or down about 2 inches to the next lower horizontal tube. 
option2: Look close at the portion of the latch that is on the gate itself. You will see a 5/16" hole already in that bracket mid way between the 2 bolts. Install your latch assy just as is shown, then take a drill and drill a 5/16" hole straight thru the hole in the bracket, thru the vertical tube on your gate and put a 5/16" bolt and nut thru latch and gate. The bracket can then no longer twist no matter what. 
option3: Take a short self tapping sheet metal screw, and install one thru the latch bracket and let it thread itself into the gate tube. Repeat on the other side, but run that screw in at an angle so the 2nd screw doesn't hit the end of the 1st screw. 











IF you have already installed your tube gate and didn't make allowances for this type latch (the opening between the posts is too great), you may still be able to use this type latch. The round bar stock that goes into the post portion of the latch assy is 1" diameter bar stock. You can weld an extension onto that round bar stock to make it long enough to reach the post. You won't be able to use the lock holes they provided, but you will  still be able to just swing the gate closed and it latch itself. 

Crappy photo edit job but you get the idea:


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## Southern by choice

Thanks @greybeard  we do that now on our other gate latches because the LGD's hit it hard and yep they will turn and pop... they have all been reinforced with drilling through the bracket and pipe.

Leaving the field for long periods of time we still have to "clip" the gate because the goats can open anything just from watching and one of the LGD's thinks it can go to whatever field he needs to be in if a goat is unattended...  nice how we learn these things. LOL


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## Devonviolet

Southern by choice said:


> Don't know cuz we never did it the other way.
> We use a stretcher - we made this one.. easier and more stable than a bar... easy to make... in the woods we don't have the ability to do a tractor pull so we use the straps and come-a-longs.
> View attachment 16837


We have a metal stretcher bar like yours, that we bought at Tractor Supply. It was a bit spendy. But, in the long run, we feel it was worth the money. We still have quite a bit of fencing to do. So we are confident we will get our money's worth out of it.

With all the rain we have been getting, there is no way we can get traction, using the truck - and don't have a strong enough tractor to do the job.

Last year we used straps around a tree, with chain attached to the stretcher & come along. That worked really well for us.


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## greybeard

Devonviolet said:


> We have a metal stretcher bar like yours, that we bought at Tractor Supply. It was a bit spendy. But, in the long run, we feel it was worth the money. We still have quite a bit of fencing to do. So we are confident we will get our money's worth out of it.
> 
> With all the rain we have been getting, there is no way we can get traction, using the truck - and don't have a strong enough tractor to do the job.
> 
> Last year we used straps around a tree, with chain attached to the stretcher & come along. That worked really well for us.


You count those kind of one time expenses against the # of years and times you will use them and the amt of time and work they save you. It's rarely a frivolous expense.


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## Devonviolet

greybeard said:


> I:
> 1. Tie to start point, unroll down ffirst leg of the run to the corner. Pul tension on the first leg. Staple good to the cornor anchor post and first  vertical brace post.
> 2. Release tension from my stretcher, Cut the  wire, leaving enough to wrap around the corner and tie the strand(s) back into the tightened wire.
> 3. Wrap the wire around the same corner anchor we just tied to, Unroll down the 2nd leg, pull that leg tension, staple good to the end point, release tension, cut wire-again long enough to wrap around end post and tie strands back into the tightened wire.
> 
> Why go to the extra work?? This means that corner never "sees" anything but 2 separate straight pulls--90 deg apart, nor will that corner post ever as feel much tension pushing it inwards. I see lots of corner posts and their 2 braces around here leaning because of them basically making that corner part of one fence.


Thanks for that great explanation, greybeard!  That will really help us when we stretch fence this Summer.

Last year, we stretched fence around our goat paddock, and did the corner like @Baymule suggested - because we didn't know any better.

We are pretty much just the two of us, doing all the work ourselves. So, will be doing it in stages. We are going to work to get fence posts in the ground this Spring, while the ground is still soft, from the rain. It's a two-edged sword. We have 8 inches of Sandy Loam over several feet of clay (not sure exactly how deep it goes), that holds water. Our 3 foot post holes get 2 feet of water.   But, at least it's digable. We bought a gas powered post hole anger (4" to 6"). So, hopefully, digging post holes won't be so physically taxing. Although, it is a huge PITA to clean sticky clay off the auger!  

If we wait 'til Summer, the clay will dry out & be like digging a post hole in concrete!    The plus side of that, is putting post in soft clay, that dries around the post, makes them solid, for stretching fence.  

This has been a huge learning curve for us. We are so grateful to @Southern by choice and @Baymule for their helpful suggestions. They both saved us from making mistakes along the way, that would make for weak fencing.


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## Devonviolet

Southern by choice said:


> @Baymule
> 
> one thing we learned was gate latches! Oh how I wish I would have had someone tell me about these....
> 
> When we move all our gates will have these! I hate the chains and clips they are a PITA!
> 
> http://surelatch.com/6-gate-latches


These look interesting.  However, they won't work for our gates. Y'all may not agree with this. But, we are building our gates out of 2X4s, to save money.

We figure the steel pole gates, that we would need would cost $2000+ and we could build strong, reinforced 2X4 gates for a few 100 dollars, in lumber, screws & fencing. I know it may not be ideal, but we need to keep our costs down, as much as possible.

We are currently using a simple bar into a lever clasp type latch, with a slide bolt at the bottom (of the gate), to prevent the animals from pushing the bottom out. Again not ideal, but I am working on a way to make it adjustable, to allow for seasonal shifting due to wet/dry conditions.


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## nab

We just attempted to instal a 50' square no climb 5' fence.  It was so much harder than I expected.
The fence rolls were very difficult to handle.  I think we unfurled it incorrectly.  Our unfurled counter clockwise against the fence....I think it would have been easier clockwise.
Our other mistake was to not build braces for the corners.  The guy at tractor supply said we only had to sink the wood post into the found so 5' was exposed then surround by concrete.  The corners appear to be lifting right along with the concrete.  Very frustrating.  We have a lot to do over.


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## babsbag

We made our own fence stretcher. We used 2 2x4 and some deck screws. Sandwiched the fence in between the boards and put in 4 screws. I have a battery drill that goes with me so no power needed. I then put a ratchet strap at the top of the stretcher and another at the bottom and bring them together to a toe strap attached to a come-along. Since ALL of our fences on hills (or cliffs) this allows me to stretch the top or bottom of the fence more to adjust for the inclines. The fences arent gorgeous but that are as tight as I can get them without putting in new sections of fence every 50'. I also can't dig holes so it is trees and t-posts all the way; too many rocks, too many ravines. Great goat country though. 

We tried putting in 4x4 posts for a fence we were going to do around our yard. We sunk the posts 2', took us all weekend with some help to get them dug. We put the post in, set in concrete. Two weeks later we started the fence. We got three sections done and that night had the "storm of the century". Next morning the fence and the posts were laying on the ground. Our soil is so rocky and sandy that there is just no gripping power. So we never built that fence. After living in the country we determined we didn't need a solid wood fence like city folks anyways.


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## Baymule

Welcome to the forum @nab glad you joined us! There is lots of very good information here. There is a good discussion on setting fence corners too.

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/ideas-on-fence-corners-anyone.32929/


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## Baymule

@greybeard thanks for the detailed explanation. As always, you speak from experience and your words of wisdom and advice are greatly treasured.


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## Latestarter

Greetings @nab and welcome to BYH! Glad you jumped in  As Bay said, there's all kinds of good stuff, not just about fencing... Browse around    and join some discussions!


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## nab

Thanks for the welcome!  As others have mentioned it's just my husband and I putting up our fence and it's the first time we did this.  Now that our fence is up, when I read back over the previous post I can understand what you're talking about.  Unfortunately, I didn't understand it before the fence went up.  We rolled right around the corners and learned we needed braces.  I wish we would have ended the fence at each corner and started new but we'll just have to se how it holds up.
Now we're at the point of electrifying it.  We went solar.  We immediately encountered a problem with the plastic stand off clips.  We were told they'd work for both the inside and outside of the t-post but they don't.  We bought othersthat have a screw on back and had to modify them by snipping off some of the center.
Does anyone have picture of stand offs on both the inside and outside of a t-post?  We're using zereba brand.


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## misfitmorgan

nab said:


> Thanks for the welcome!  As others have mentioned it's just my husband and I putting up our fence and it's the first time we did this.  Now that our fence is up, when I read back over the previous post I can understand what you're talking about.  Unfortunately, I didn't understand it before the fence went up.  We rolled right around the corners and learned we needed braces.  I wish we would have ended the fence at each corner and started new but we'll just have to se how it holds up.
> Now we're at the point of electrifying it.  We went solar.  We immediately encountered a problem with the plastic stand off clips.  We were told they'd work for both the inside and outside of the t-post but they don't.  We bought othersthat have a screw on back and had to modify them by snipping off some of the center.
> Does anyone have picture of stand offs on both the inside and outside of a t-post?  We're using zereba brand.



Pretty much everything from a TSC employee should be taken with a grain of salt just FYI...they dont really know a lot about all areas of the product line....or have not done whatever your trying to do. Running a 3 string electric fence for a 20yr old easy keeper horse with a old buddy is way different then running a 4-6' woven wire or no climb net fence. Suffice to say all fences should have corner braces unless they are temporary. 

Even our little chicken run made with t posts has corner braces....of more t posts lol. 

We all make our fencing mistakes....atm the chicken fence, we didnt stretch nearly enough and the chickens all run under the fence now and free range themselves lol. We put up temporary electric wire for the goats/sheep to expand their pastures until we got time to put up woven...yeah no they ran right thru it multiple times and were out in about 10 minutes. Even though we spaced the wire 6", 6" and 8" as suggested lol. The problem with the electric is the charger isnt long enough range so we need to get a more powerful one and the wire we got which is electric fence wire..is the slightly thinner kind and it sucks.

For the t-post clips they should fit onto any of the 3 sides of a t-post. i have seen several different types so not sure the kind you first tried to use. i found this ..not sure it helps though since thats a special type it seems..http://www.fencewireinsulator.com/ It does say jeffers and valley vet both carry it though.  i know in the past i have just put my t-post a little crooked to the fence line so i could put off-sets on two flat sides and be fairly straight on the fence wire for both fences, definitely not ideal.

So really...not sure what your goal is lol. Other then of course a nice fence nothing gets in or out of but we all want that


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## babsbag

They make t post standoffs for inside and they make them for outside, they are not interchangeable. I buy mine at TSC but there are definitely "inies and outies", you have to read the bag, they are called "reversed" insulators.


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## Baymule

We have been working on the last stretch of fence. I can now say our place is totally enclosed and fenced!! This last stretch ran through thick trees, brush and briars. In some of the pictures you can see the thicket we cut through to make room for the fence.

We also have a gully that exits our property. In the wettest winter, it runs a small stream. There are seeps when there is LOTS of rain. We set two sets of H braces on each side of the gully. Edited to add; @Mike CHS I had mentioned (some time ago) that we were going to use concrete bags to cross a gully and you asked me to tag you when we did it, so here it is!










We ran the wire straight across the gully from brace to brace.









We ran the fence up the slope toward the back corner, there is a huge pine tree close to the line. I can't reach around it. My husband was insistent on keeping the tree, so we moved the fence over to make sure it has room for future growth. This was ok with the neighbors and they were pleased that we saved the tree.





This was the corner.


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## Baymule

I was planning on using 40 pound bags of concrete mix for making a water gap in the gully. Our son showed up and changed it to 80 pound bags and he did the lifting! I sure was glad he showed up!





He stacked them in 3 rows to make a good base and a spillway for the water to run out on. We left 2 holes in the third layer. We pounded in 3 T-posts to further stabilize the bags and to securely attach to the long span of wire across the gully.









We left a gap in the top layer.






We stacked 50 pound bags on both sides of the fence in two low spots.





Yesterday my husband and I cut a piece of wire and using hog rings, we closed the gap between the concrete bags and the fence wire. We ran a piece of twisted smooth wire at the bottom to hog ring the 2x4 wire to.


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## Devonviolet

Wow @Baymule! That looks awesome!     Great job!


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## Baymule

This is the corner after many days of cleaning. 



 

You can see the high wire fence of the ranch behind us. The work, sweat and sore muscles that went into this view!



 

Because of the closeness of a tree to the fence line, we would not be able to get the tractor or mule through, so we cleared a short cut!



 

While our son and I laid concrete bags, my husband and neighbor rolled wire. When we were done, our son went to help stretch wire. Every one was pretty much wiped out from heat and humidity so we called it a day.



 

Yesterday my husband and I pounded T-posts and I clipped them. We got enough posts in to hold the fence and let the sheep in!


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## Devonviolet

*WOW!!!*


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## Baymule

The sheep were uncertain about this new place! They stayed close to the gate because it felt familiar.






They didn't go far.





By calling them softly, they followed me almost to the gully before turning tails and running back to the gate!





When we let the sheep in, we also brought Paris and Trip. They both ran crazy all over the new pasture. We needed a break and quit for awhile. Paris was at the gate. She was done! DH opened the gate and she ran to the backyard gate begging to go home! Trip was ready to quit for the day too.
Poor sheep had to stay in that scary new pasture! Doesn't Ramburger look pitiful? He just wanted to go home!





DH and I both were plumb tuckered out. We ate a sandwich, guzzled ice tea and took a nap. It rained a drizzle, just enough to bump the humidity to the stratosphere. I went and finished clipping the T-posts.


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## norseofcourse

Awesome job!!!  What a massive amount of work, but isn't it wonderful to be done?  Your sheep will soon explore that entire pasture, and will love being in there.  Congrats!!


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## Baymule

The sheep have eyesight of eagles, sonic hearing of bats and the physic capabilities to know what I am doing at all times. They "know" I am coming outside. They see the door crack open. They hear me breathing. They are at the gate BAA BAA BAA BAA BAA'ing for me to let them out so they can go HOME! I am such a BAAA'D sheep Mommy!



 

We put them back in the new pasture this morning. This afternoon I coaxed them to walk the outer fence line with me.



 

I kept calling softly and they followed. They went across the gully!



 

They packed around me for security. We made it to the very back fence!



 

Then they ran ahead of me and rounded the corner onto the pipeline. They grazed a little bit. They realized they were WAY away from their gate and took off. They left me in a cloud of dust and high tailed it back to their safe zone. LOL 

Last night we left them there until 8:30 and we'll do the same tonight. We will continue to put them in their night pen. 

It feels so good to have this done! There are still finishing touches to be done, but we can utilize that part of our land now! WHOO-HOO!


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## Devonviolet

LOVE the photo of them crossing the gully!!!


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## CntryBoy777

Congratulations!!!.....
Great Job....
I know it is a huge Relief, even tho it took a bit longer than anticipated....it is functional and just the fine tuning left sure beats where ya were. So happy for y'all....


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## Baymule

I put their feed out, shrieked SHEEP! SHEEP! SHEEP! DH opened the gate and they bolted for home. The thundering herd raced across the yard, rounded the gatepost and fell on the feed trough like ravening wolves. Even little Lucy (born Monday night) kept up. But the whole gate/wire thing eluded her. She smacked right into the wire and bounced off. She could see her mommy, but couldn't get there! I shoo'ed her in the gate and closed up the pen.

Yes it took us longer then we thought it would. Considering where we started and where we are now, we have come a long way. DH has had multiple surgeries and has had to recover from each one with therapy. It has been start-stop. But this is such a feeling of peace and serenity. Finally. Done.


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## Mini Horses

WOW!!  Great job!   It's always so gooooood to finish -- just finish.    Love the trip to see the "new place" with the sheep.

You have quite a group there now.   Started with what, four or five?   Well, I don't have sheep BUT -- at a sheep & goat auction yesterday, I almost did!   I wanted this group so badly but was good and sat on my hands!!!   Someone selling out because they felt they were no longer able to continue their care  (age/health thing).   They were in terrific shape, tame (!!) and gorgeous....look at this 2 yr old ram....hand tame, love on me guy...YOU CAME TO MIND... with your colorful sheep    ($165)


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## Baymule

Ooooohhhh! I like!! Wish he was mine! How did you ever pass them up?


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## Mini Horses

HARD, I tell you, HARD!!

Ewes looked as good, several white, couple sons/dtrs, like him.   It was all I could do!   But, controlled myself.  

Already have goats, 7 adult, +4 this yr ---  all does.  After yesterday sale of last 4 excess bucks, only one adult buck left.  Plus I want to get a Boer buck to cross onto my full sized does to produce sale kids.   Those things -- plus feed/mineral issues -- kept me sane.    The goat meat sells better in my area due to the Northern corridor of VA being at DC.   Huge ethnic market in that area being supplied.   So, goats bring more $ here.  I got more for my 4 mo old kids than they got for this AWESOME ram.     Gotta go with the $$  

I'm going to add a few meat does soon, just for kids in future.   My Boers always did well on primarily forage. Watching for some "private" sales with nice stock.


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## Mike CHS

It looks great and you have @Devonviolet Dam.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> Then they ran ahead of me and rounded the corner onto the pipeline. They grazed a little bit. They realized they were WAY away from their gate and took off. They left me in a cloud of dust and high tailed it back to their safe zone. LOL


Why the double fence?


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## Baymule

greybeard said:


> Why the double fence?


The high wire fence is offset from the property line. You know what that means. I can't tie onto it. It is also skirted all the way around with a 2' wire mesh laid on the ground to keep dogs and coyotes from digging in. There's a thousand acres in that ranch, a herd of horses, a few fallow deer and some high bred white tails with ear tags.


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## Baymule

I caught this moment when Joe struck a pose while enjoying the new fenced in area!


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## Mike CHS

Joe is posing for the camera.


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## Baymule

Would you believe Joe is 28 years old?


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## frustratedearthmother

He looks great!


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## Baymule

The concrete bags we laid down in the gully are doing the job. The holes we left open let the water through. There is a small pool and that makes the dogs happy. They can splash in it and cool off. There must be seeps that Feed the pool, there is a trickle of water on the opposite side of the fence going down the gully. 



 

The concrete bags we laid in low places closed the gap under the fence. 



 

I am happy with the concrete bags. They probably wouldn’t work for a large flow of water, but they work for me.


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## Mike CHS

I have an area in one of my fences that is showing some sign of erosion that I think that would fix. I was wondering how those bags had handled all the weather down your way.


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## greybeard

I haven't used bagged sakcrete on a fence but have used them to stop erosion on a road crossing a little dry creek runs under. In my rainfall, they've seen tremendous flow when the creek gets full and even over tops the roadway and the 80lb sacks have stayed put for over a year. I just put them in fresh from a builder's supply, dry and let humidity do it's thing. If you need to, you can drive a length of rebar thru the uncured sack of mix and when it cures, the rebar will prevent movement.

I had tried some bagged mortar mix previously as well as plain bagged portland cement...didn't work nearly as well. Took too long to cure I suppose. Both of those slid down the embankment..bag torn before the humidity could work.


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## r3bauer

Baymule said:


> If you have questions, ask away! When you start on your fence, don't hesitate to ask questions, somebody here will be able to answer.


My nearest farm store and TSC have no climb fence for 249.99 for 200ft. is that a good price?


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## Latestarter

If you don't plan to breed/have babies, you can save a little and go with something like this:  
Woven wire field fence   https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...n-field-fence-330-ft-l-x-47-in-h?cm_vc=-10005 
Openings range from 3 in. H x 6 in. W at the bottom to 8 in. H x 6 in. W at the top (baby goats can get through it), 330 ft. L x 47 in. H,  *$149.99*






Or what I use:





Woven wire goat & sheep fence    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/red-brand-goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft?cm_vc=-10005
4 in. x 4 in. squares (no babies can get through it).  48 in. x 330 ft.  *$234.99*

Both are much less expensive than no climb horse fence.


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## r3bauer

Latestarter said:


> If you don't plan to breed/have babies, you can save a little and go with something like this:
> Woven wire field fence   https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...n-field-fence-330-ft-l-x-47-in-h?cm_vc=-10005
> Openings range from 3 in. H x 6 in. W at the bottom to 8 in. H x 6 in. W at the top (baby goats can get through it), 330 ft. L x 47 in. H,  *$149.99*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or what I use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woven wire goat & sheep fence    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/red-brand-goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft?cm_vc=-10005
> 4 in. x 4 in. squares (no babies can get through it).  48 in. x 330 ft.  *$234.99*
> 
> Both are much less expensive than no climb horse fence.


thank you! The goat/sheep fencing is 239.99 at my nearest TSC


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## Rammy

When I first fenced in my backyard, I got welded wire. Its all I could afford at the time. I had to replace it 5 years later because it rusted, dog poked holes in it, and was falling apart. 
I got the woven wire to replace it. Took several months to get the amount I needed because I would buy a roll at a time when it was on sale. I will never buy welded wire ever again. 
As many on here have stated, buy the best you can now and do it right because if you dont, you will have to do it again later. And you will be older and it will be harder to do. And more expensive. Especially if you have to pay someone to do it for you.


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## B&B Happy goats

Yepper, put our welded wire up less than two years ago ...as temporary  fencing...in the process of replacing last two sides....will keep the welded for temporary  areas as needed....


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## Latestarter

Yeah, you get ~3.3 rolls of the sheep & goat fence for what you'd pay for 2 rolls of the no climb horse fence. The sheep and goat isn't as good if being used for horses, but designed perfectly for sheep or goats (go figure). Just a heads up, the roll is VERY heavy at ~250 pounds per roll. The goats will "climb" the fence and put their heads over it to reach branches/leaves,trees/pine needles/etc. They will also lean into it and "walk" along to scratch their bodies/sides. I say this to let you know it needs to be pulled TIGHT between ends and you may want to consider a knee/belly height string of hot wire as well as a single hot wire over the top. 

Hope you'll share a few pics when you get started R3. Maybe start a journal  https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/members-backyardherds-journals.18/    so you can have a running story over time and we can all follow along.


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## Baymule

When we bought our place 4 years ago, I paid $229 per 200’ roll. I caught it on sale for $215 and loaded up. Then a neighbor’s sister worked at TSC, neighbor took our money and used his sister’s discount. All in all, with wire and T-posts, we spent just under $10K. We have 4 pastures, garden and back yard. Worth every penny. 

Field fence is barely above welded wire for being crap. We fenced 16 acres in it and I sure was sorry we used it. 

Instead of a journal,  @r3bauer perhaps you could post your fencing (with pictures) in this forum. It is a lot easier to find specific subjects when they aren’t buried in 900 pages of a journal. Journals are fun to read but IMO things like building fence, barns, chicken coops and such deserve a post of their own so other people can find them and benefit from your knowledge and experience. 

While I favor the 2”x4” non climb wire, the sheep and goat 4”x4” is also good strong wire. You get a bigger roll for your money and that’s always a good thing.


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## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> If you don't plan to breed/have babies, you can save a little and go with something like this:
> Woven wire field fence   https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...n-field-fence-330-ft-l-x-47-in-h?cm_vc=-10005
> Openings range from 3 in. H x 6 in. W at the bottom to 8 in. H x 6 in. W at the top (baby goats can get through it), 330 ft. L x 47 in. H,  *$149.99*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or what I use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Woven wire goat & sheep fence    https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/red-brand-goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft?cm_vc=-10005
> 4 in. x 4 in. squares (no babies can get through it).  48 in. x 330 ft.  *$234.99*
> 
> Both are much less expensive than no climb horse fence.


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