# Breeding in a Colony



## micah wotring (Sep 15, 2016)

I hope this is in the right section.

So, I don't own any rabbits yet but my brother has promised me a buck and a couple does and I'm waiting for a litter with the coolest color.

Anyway, how do y'all manage breeding in your colony settings? I know of a couple people who have their bucks in a separate cage and so I assume they just take out the does and breed the with the bucks individually. Would there be a way to keep the buck in the does' pen and just take him out when they have their kits?(farrow, kidding, calving? birthing.)

Or would you have to take the does out to have their babies? Could you just leave everybody together throughout the whole process??

Thanks all,
MW


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## chiques chicks (Sep 15, 2016)

The one person i know with a colony keeps their does together with multiple nest boxes. more boxes than does, and plenty of space. boxes are old mailboxes, tops of cat litter pans, old metal or wood boxes etc. they keep hay on the floor.
   Buck(s) are in separate cages and does are taken to his cage to breed.   Last I was there, they had about five does in the colony, seemed to work for them.


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## micah wotring (Sep 15, 2016)

chiques chicks said:


> The one person i know with a colony keeps their does together with multiple nest boxes. more boxes than does, and plenty of space. boxes are old mailboxes, tops of cat litter pans, old metal or wood boxes etc. they keep hay on the floor.
> Buck(s) are in separate cages and does are taken to his cage to breed.   Last I was there, they had about five does in the colony, seemed to work for them.


Awesome! Thanks.


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## Alexz7272 (Sep 15, 2016)

We keep our buck(s) seperate from the does and introduce them when we want kits then separate them again. We never let the girls and guys run together with the exception of mating.  Our does also have several nesting boxes  and plenty of space. We've had no issues so far!


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## micah wotring (Sep 15, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> We keep our buck(s) separate from the does and introduce them when we want kits then separate them again. We never let the girls and guys run together with the exception of mating.  Our does also have several nesting boxes  and plenty of space. We've had no issues so far!


So, I'd think the does would fight with each other having kits and all. Thanks though! I guess the doe would get weak raising litters constantly if you left the buck in. Iv'e heard does are very territorial. Is there something you do with them in a colony to counter-act this somehow.


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## Bunnylady (Sep 15, 2016)

"Space - the final frontier . . . ."

Sorry about the levity, sometimes, I just can't help it.

But that is the secret to colony breeding - space, and plenty of it. Lots of room for does to get as far away from each other as they need to; plenty of places for them to rest and nest, and keeping a watchful eye out and removing any doe that just can't seem to get along with the others (they aren't_ all _savages!). Some folks report that breaking up sight lines seems to be helpful - placing boxes or other objects in the space so the does don't have to see each other all the time.


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## Alexz7272 (Sep 15, 2016)

My does definitely get annoyed with each other but for the most part they do great! As @Bunnylady said (and she is the real expert here!) We have things that break their line of sight, so they can go to their respective 'places'


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## micah wotring (Sep 15, 2016)

Ok, thank you. I'm still in the planning stage now so I'll try to make it as big as possible. And yes, add toys and such.


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## micah wotring (Sep 19, 2016)

So, how about 2 hog panels bent into a U shape and tied together at the ends to make a big oval and then put it on concrete? Would you have to put a tarp over the whole thing to keep them from jumping out? And the sides, would you need something other than a hog panel? Obviously yes to the last one with a cattle panel but how about a hog panel?

Thank ya all!


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## Alexz7272 (Sep 19, 2016)

They will definitely get through a hog panel.


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## Alexz7272 (Sep 19, 2016)

If you're looking for cheap fencing, I've seen stucco wire used in a colony. Chicken wire they chew through. We used welded wire.


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## Bossroo (Sep 19, 2016)

After raising many rabbits for meat at our farm ( yes, a small colony at one time followed by the individual cage system )then  thousands of rabbits commercially ,  I would definately NOT recommend the colony method.


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## micah wotring (Sep 20, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> After raising many rabbits for meat at our farm ( yes, a small colony at one time followed by the individual cage system )then  thousands of rabbits commercially ,  I would definately NOT recommend the colony method.


Why? Is it disease or what? Thanks for warning me.


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## micah wotring (Sep 20, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> They will definitely get through a hog panel.


Ah, ok.


Alexz7272 said:


> If you're looking for cheap fencing, I've seen stucco wire used in a colony. Chicken wire they chew through. We used welded wire.


Thanks! I knew they'd chew through chicken wire (I hate that stuff) so I'll look up those other two. Thanks again.


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## AClark (Sep 20, 2016)

I want to know why not also? My best guess would be parasites from being on the ground. The wild rabbits here are riddled with gross things, and it never gets cold enough to kill it off, so I won't touch them.


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## micah wotring (Sep 20, 2016)

AClark said:


> I want to know why not also? My best guess would be parasites from being on the ground. The wild rabbits here are riddled with gross things, and it never gets cold enough to kill it off, so I won't touch them.


That would make sense. I was thinking like escapes and fights.


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## Bossroo (Sep 20, 2016)

micah wotring said:


> That would make sense. I was thinking like escapes and fights.


All of the above including,rampent disease and  canibalism. Ever see 3 does EAT another doe alive and her just sitting there in complete shock ?


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## micah wotring (Sep 20, 2016)

Bossroo said:


> All of the above including,rampent disease and  canibalism. Ever see 3 does EAT another doe alive and her just sitting there in complete shock ?


Uh, no. I haven't and never want to.
However the number of people I've talked to saying they haven't had any problems far outweighs the number of people who have had problems and have switched to cages.
I understand your point but I would like to try. I'm not saying your wrong and I'm not saying it will work for me just because it has worked for others. I'm not even saying it WILL work for me. Jut that I'd like to try.

Thank you for your time, I'll be sure to do everything I can to prevent all of these things.
I'm sure I'll learn plenty one way or another.

Thanks again,
MW


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## NH homesteader (Sep 20, 2016)

From a non rabbiteer,  I am curious if rabbits are solitary by nature.  Do they enjoy each other's company for the most part or do they want  their own space? Seems to me they'd be lonely in cages.  But not knowing rabbits other than having a few as pets (who loved their buddies)...  I don't know.  I had two rabbits separated because I wasn't sure of gender and one dug a tunnel to get to the other one.  Turns out they were both females.  Found them all cuddled up in a corner. I have no plans to breed rabbits but if I ever did I would do a colony. 

So not advice,  just what I was thinking reading this thread.


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## micah wotring (Sep 20, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> From a non rabbiteer,  I am curious if rabbits are solitary by nature.  Do they enjoy each other's company for the most part or do they want  their own space? Seems to me they'd be lonely in cages.  But not knowing rabbits other than having a few as pets (who loved their buddies)...  I don't know.  I had two rabbits separated because I wasn't sure of gender and one dug a tunnel to get to the other one.  Turns out they were both females.  Found them all cuddled up in a corner. I have no plans to breed rabbits but if I ever did I would do a colony.
> 
> So not advice,  just what I was thinking reading this thread.


They are very social from what I've read. The does can be VERY territorial though so either they grow up together or don't get along. So, I think if you have enough space they should be fine. Again, this is all just from what I've seen on BYC, BYH, and YouTube.


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## Bossroo (Sep 20, 2016)

double post


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## Bossroo (Sep 20, 2016)

Double post


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## Bunnylady (Sep 20, 2016)

With the single exception of the European wild rabbit, every rabbit species in the world is solitary in nature. Because the European rabbit is often found in groups, the assumption has been made that they prefer the company of others. People who have actually studied the behavior of rabbits in a warren have come to the conclusion that the rabbits are being forced together because local conditions give them nowhere else to go. Rather than preferring the company of other rabbits, they are merely tolerating it - to a certain extent.

The nastiness that Bossroo witnessed is actually very normal (and yes, I have seen similar behavior on occasion, including a young buck who basically castrated his 4 brothers by the time they were 10 weeks old). What _isn't_ normal is the snuggly, lovey kind of behavior we want to see in our bunnies. Baby bunnies need to be cuddly and snuggly with each other, otherwise, they would freeze to death. Just as the friendliness that we generally prefer in dogs is really puppy behavior, this kind of "sociability" in rabbits is also juvenile behavior. As a certain amount of temperament seems to be inheritable, by choosing rabbits that exhibit this kind of behavior as breeders, we can create animals that behave in ways vastly different from their ancestors.

So when people get me involved in the perpetual "social or solitary" debate about rabbits, I have learned to say that they can be either one, depending on the rabbit.


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## samssimonsays (Sep 20, 2016)

Space and lots of visual blocks worked for mine. I used 2x4 welded wire goat fence that was 4.5' tall (goat fencing) and then you can run chicken wire along the bottom. They will dig out, predators can climb or dig in. Line the bottom with chicken wire as well and you can use a bird netting or chicken wire over the top for protection if they are outside. Some does just don't work out in a colony setting. The key is to finding the easy natured ones who DO work and keeping their offspring and raising them in the colony from day one will also teach them the "proper" social skills and they are more apt to be good colony members. Emancipation Acres has some really great articles on colony raising too. That was where I got most of my successful info from. Until then I had tried several times and had it fail.


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## micah wotring (Sep 20, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> With the single exception of the European wild rabbit, every rabbit species in the world is solitary in nature. Because the European rabbit is often found in groups, the assumption has been made that they prefer the company of others. People who have actually studied the behavior of rabbits in a warren have come to the conclusion that the rabbits are being forced together because local conditions give them nowhere else to go. Rather than preferring the company of other rabbits, they are merely tolerating it - to a certain extent.
> 
> The nastiness that Bossroo witnessed is actually very normal (and yes, I have seen similar behavior on occasion, including a young buck who basically castrated his 4 brothers by the time they were 10 weeks old). What _isn't_ normal is the snuggly, lovey kind of behavior we want to see in our bunnies. Baby bunnies need to be cuddly and snuggly with each other, otherwise, they would freeze to death. Just as the friendliness that we generally prefer in dogs is really puppy behavior, this kind of "sociability" in rabbits is also juvenile behavior. As a certain amount of temperament seems to be inheritable, by choosing rabbits that exhibit this kind of behavior as breeders, we can create animals that behave in ways vastly different from their ancestors.
> 
> So when people get me involved in the perpetual "social or solitary" debate about rabbits, I have learned to say that they can be either one, depending on the rabbit.


Ah, ok. That makes a lot of sense. Thank you very much!



samssimonsays said:


> Space and lots of visual blocks worked for mine. I used 2x4 welded wire goat fence that was 4.5' tall (goat fencing) and then you can run chicken wire along the bottom. They will dig out, predators can climb or dig in. Line the bottom with chicken wire as well and you can use a bird netting or chicken wire over the top for protection if they are outside. Some does just don't work out in a colony setting. The key is to finding the easy natured ones who DO work and keeping their offspring and raising them in the colony from day one will also teach them the "proper" social skills and they are more apt to be good colony members. Emancipation Acres has some really great articles on colony raising too. That was where I got most of my successful info from. Until then I had tried several times and had it fail.


So, by chicken wire and bird netting do you mean that hexigonigal stuff? The only kind like that I can get is so thin wire guage that it rusts SUPER quick. I was thinking of doing it on concrete with like 6" of dirt and then like a foot of hay. We have an old (BIG!) barn that we only have a few cows in so that's why I was going to do it on concrete.


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## micah wotring (Sep 20, 2016)

samssimonsays said:


> Emancipation Acres has some really great articles on colony raising too. That was where I got most of my successful info from. Until then I had tried several times and had it fail.


Can you give me a link? I can't seem to find her/him. Thanks


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## Alexz7272 (Sep 20, 2016)

@micah wotring 

https://emancipationacres.com/rabbits/ 

I'm playing around on the internet for work anyways, Hahah!


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## micah wotring (Sep 20, 2016)

Alexz7272 said:


> @micah wotring
> 
> https://emancipationacres.com/rabbits/
> 
> I'm playing around on the internet for work anyways, Hahah!


Haha, thanks... I'll read it.


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## DutchBunny03 (Sep 24, 2016)

A good wire spacing would be 2" by 1". That would prevent the kits from getting through. Bucks have a tendency to kill kits. Rabbits also have been known to mate through fences, so a double-layer fence would be a good investment. Warning- DOES WILL FIGHT!!! One of my does has bloodied another rabbit's neck. They are very territorial. The best way to prevent an incident like that is to bond the does before having them live together.


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## micah wotring (Sep 25, 2016)

DutchBunny03 said:


> A good wire spacing would be 2" by 1". That would prevent the kits from getting through. Bucks have a tendency to kill kits. Rabbits also have been known to mate through fences, so a double-layer fence would be a good investment. Warning- DOES WILL FIGHT!!! One of my does has bloodied another rabbit's neck. They are very territorial. The best way to prevent an incident like that is to bond the does before having them live together.


Thank you! so to bond them would keeping them one wire wall apart for a few weeks work? Or would it be best to just keep the two does from the same litter? (This would be hard when you get a bigger colony)
Thanks again,
MW


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## DutchBunny03 (Sep 25, 2016)

You don't need to keep them apart for that long. My rabbit that bloodied the other rabbits neck was rebonded with the rabbit she attacked within a few days. The trick is correction and negative reinforcement. Spray the aggresive rabbit in the head with a squirt bottle of water. After a few days, the rabbits will lay down by each other and groom each other. When this happens, watch the rabbits for a little while to make sure they dont fight again. You should only need to bond your original does. Dams and kits will probably not have any big problems. Soon, you will have so many rabbits that fights may arise, but that is a part if colony raising. Have fun!!


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## micah wotring (Sep 25, 2016)

DutchBunny03 said:


> You don't need to keep them apart for that long. My rabbit that bloodied the other rabbits neck was rebonded with the rabbit she attacked within a few days. The trick is correction and negative reinforcement. Spray the aggresive rabbit in the head with a squirt bottle of water. After a few days, the rabbits will lay down by each other and groom each other. When this happens, watch the rabbits for a little while to make sure they dont fight again. You should only need to bond your original does. Dams and kits will probably not have any big problems. Soon, you will have so many rabbits that fights may arise, but that is a part if colony raising. Have fun!!


Awesome thanks! Oh, I will. XD


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## Bunnylady (Sep 25, 2016)

Newborn kits can easily fit through 1" x 2" wire; that's why 'baby saver' cage wire has 1/2" spacing on the bottom few inches. If a doe has her litter in a nest box, that is less of an issue, but if the babies get pulled out or are kindled outside of something that can keep them corralled, they will crawl surprising distances.

When I have put colonies together, I have found that putting them all together at once, in a space that is unfamiliar to all of them, works best for me. The buck's advances usually keep the does distracted enough that they don't get nasty with each other, and multiple does can keep the buck from hassling one doe to the point that she loses her temper with him. Sometimes I have one doe that still gets nasty and picks at the other does, and if that's how it is, she gets removed. As we all know, a lot of does can become real touch-me-nots when they are pregnant, so even if things seem peaceful at the beginning,  I continue to monitor for moody moms-to-be and settle anyone who is too hostile in a space of her own. 

They say that 'good fences make good neighbors;' that isn't necessarily true with rabbits. If you have the wrong mix of personalities, just keeping them from killing each other while they get acquainted won't get them to "bond." The one time I actually saw a doe spraying was when she was being threatened by the doe in the cage next door; those two had a war going on the entire time they lived next to each other. I have seen noses bloodied, toes and tails bitten off; a show prospect never made it to a show because, as a 5-week-old, he lost a large chunk of his ear to the doe that lived in the cage next door.

Siblings and other related rabbits may or may not live together well. If a doe thinks it's time for her daughters to move to their own part of the world, *believe her, it's time! *A doe can be just as nasty to a rabbit she gave birth to as she may be to any other; rabbits don't recognize blood ties.

On the other hand, I have had numerous "colonies" of animals that had lived past their reproductive usefulness, that I put together to live out their lives in a sort of retirement (yes, I let sentiment get in the way all the time; probably why my rabbits have always been a hobby rather than a business). Several may get along quite happily in relatively close quarters, some just never do. They are all different, and until you get to know them, you really can't be sure what they'll do.


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