# Oak Tree Leaves Poisonous???



## Dreaming Of Goats (Jan 12, 2011)

I was just reading "Storey's Guide to Raising Dairy Goats" and it says that oak tree leaves are poisonous to them. Is this true? In what amounts? Can they grow immune of it? I was just wondering because a lot of New England, including my backyard, has oak trees, and oak leaves,  but people still have goats....... Thanks in Advance!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 12, 2011)

Oak leaves are fine.  Here's an article about it:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/publicationslist.org/data/silanikove/ref-74/tannin.tox.SRR95.pdf

I had read the same thing before getting my goats and panicked since we live smack in the middle of a mixed deciduous forest (mainly oak) and that's where the goats would be staying.  They eat oak leaves all summer and acorns in the fall to no ill effect.


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## freemotion (Jan 12, 2011)

My pasture is shaded mostly by oaks, red maples, and wild black cherry....all poisonous.  I've had no problems, except with one pygmy who will stuff herself after a big acorn drop and get a little clumpy poo.  Now that I have 7 goats, though, it isn't a problem as there is too much competition!   Plus I got into the habit of picking up acorns for the pigs every day.  When I just had the two goats, I would close off the pasture while the acorns were dropping, until the squirrels cleaned them all up.


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## KellyHM (Jan 12, 2011)

The leaves seem to be fine.  Acorns, however, can be toxic/fatal in large amounts.  Last year after my first doe kidded I moved her to a new pasture where there were a TON of acrons on the ground.  She proceded to gobble them up and then go into kidney failure...wasn't producing urine, projectile vomiting (which is something coming from a goat!), etc.  She was at the vet clinic on IV fluids & diuretics for 3 days, but finally came around.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 12, 2011)

I had a little guy get sick once from him...I actually had to bring him to the vet.  He went down hard.  But he ate bunch!! I mean alot!! 

He was fine after...but too much of anything..well ya know!!!

But acorns are not good for them..Mine will much on them. With no issue..and I remember the vet saying that one oak is worse than the other..red or white?? and of course I cant remember right now...    Sorry


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## freemotion (Jan 12, 2011)

Red oaks have more tannins in them than the white ones, and are more bitter.


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## Henrietta23 (Jan 12, 2011)

I worried too since our yard is full of mostly oaks. The goats mostly ignored the leaves when they came off the trees this fall. They went nuts over the maple and birch leaves though.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 12, 2011)

Ours ate the acorns from several mature chestnut oaks in abundance this past Fall without any problems.


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## DonnaBelle (Jan 13, 2011)

My goats also eat oak leaves, and so far, no problems.

I did have 2 kinds of hemlock growing in the pasture and DH and I went around and pulled them all out last spring and I hope for no more this year!!  

I was advised about hemlock by a friend who raised goats and lost 2 or 3 to hemlock, a ground plant with white flower tops.

DonnaBelle


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 13, 2011)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Red oaks have more tannins in them than the white ones, and are more bitter.


Thank you!!!


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## Dreaming Of Goats (Jan 13, 2011)

Thank you everyone!!!!!!


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## RoeDylanda (Jan 15, 2011)

I just had the *exact same* thing happen! Reading Storey's guide in preparation for spring/summer goats, just signed a contract with the tree guy to pull out some very tall/very sick trees around where the barn and fence will be... and I read that oaks leaves are toxic to goats. We're surrounded by oak trees! I'd have to hock a kidney to get all of the oaks removed! [Hyperventilation, fretting, wringing of hands, plotting to call up the nice 4H lady down the road and ask for help....]

Then problem solved by BYH. 

Thanks!


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## freemotion (Jan 15, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

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You are very welcome!  

For those who don't know the difference, the white oaks have smoothly lobed leaves (think of white mittens to remember, works for me  ) and the red ones have points or even little sorta thorn-like things on each pointy leaf lobe.  Think pointy=ouch, blood=red oaks.

Since they are more bitter, the red oaks are less palatable.  That is what I have in my pasture.  The acorns tend to be a bit smaller, usually, than the white oaks.  I did a lot of research over the past couple of years in preparation for my pig project....acorn-fed pork.

Might as well make a nuisance useful!


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## babsbag (Jan 20, 2011)

How did the acorn fed pig work out? Usually we have tons of acorns and I toss them to the goats like an easter egg hunt. This year we had literally NONE, oh, we had ONE, I forgot. I don't know what the poor squirrels and woodpeckers are living on, but the goats aren't getting their treats this year.

But I am interested in your pig as I intend to get my first one this summer and we usually have a bunch of acorns.

BTW, my goats thrive on oak leaves, brances, bark, all things oak. Especially the poison oak, but don't think that is really in the oak family.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jan 21, 2011)

You're right, poison oak is not in the oak family.  There are, however, nearly 60 species of oak native to North America!  I also did a good bit of research about it before getting our goats since our entire property is mixed deciduous.  We have 3 different species on the property I have been able to identify, and most likely others I haven't.  Tannic acid toxicosis is a risk in certain circumstances, but less likely in goats than other species.  We haven't had an issues.


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## horseofcorff (Jan 21, 2011)

Any deciduous tree is poisonous if the leaf is RED or turning RED. The RED is a tannin which will slowly kill the liver. It will build up until all of a sudden your goat is looking thin, gets sick easily, and lays around a lot.  That is probably the point of no return, if you are practical. If you only have a few and want to spend hours of nursing, the liver does have the ability to eventually regenerate.  

The same is true for the sericea lespedeza. Goats will eat it, but when it turns red in the late summer it contains high levels of tannins. (tannins will actually purge a lot of intestinal parasites and Langston University actually did a study to see if you could let goats graze sericea lespedeza as a parasite control method). 

The oak and maple are the most dangerous in the spring. The goats have had a long period of dry feed and are desperate for something fresh and they will nibble the buds as soon as they form.  

We plant winter rye so that as soon as the weather breaks we have that coming up, which helps to keep their attention off the oak trees. 

By the way, I put up pictures of my new Piedmontese bull calf, born Wednesday on Facebook. This forum will not let me tell you the link, but my user name is Deborah Corff. My pictures are public, so you look in the Piedmontese album. 


Deborah Corff, Cushing OK


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jan 21, 2011)

freemotion said:
			
		

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We are pondering doing the same thing!!!  Love it!! Good luck...Pigs will be a new adventure for us too!!!!  Especially after hearing the pork/beef projections cost to go up 30%....  Ugggh...I'll raise my own thanks!!!


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## freemotion (Jan 21, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

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We are now eating our acorn-fed pork and it is delicious!  For more details, I journalled it on sufficientself.  Its called "Free's piggie thread" or something like that....it is verrrrry long.....


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