# Best Age for Purchasing First Cattle?



## arsmagic

Hello,

I'm brand new to both this forum and raising livestock, so excuse me if my terminology is incorrect. Everyone has to start somewhere, right?
I am no where near buying cattle yet, but I enjoy researching and thinking about my future in my spare time. One question has been bugging me for awhile. I stumbled upon this forum, and it seemed like a nice place to ask. Excuse me if I do something wrong here!

First, to get one thing out of the way- my plan is to raise purebred cattle as _pets_, as well as do some light breeding (to sell the calves as pets as well). My dream breeds would be Brahman or Highland cattle, but that doesn't really pertain to the question! (unless one of these breeds is perpetually unfriendly? I've heard good things about Highland, but Brahman tend to be skittish)

Raising them as pets is important to my question, which is: What is the best age to buy a cow at, in order to tame it? It might be easier to buy a calf to hand-raise how I'd like it, but then there are health risks and loneliness factors (I could get 2 to start, but that's an even bigger challenge). I would love to start with a mature heifer/cow, but I'd be afraid that she would not be as tame and friendly as I'd like. It's not easy to find hand-raised, pet cattle for sale in California.

I might be confusing you guys here, but I really wanted to put this question out there because when I try to Google this question, it's hard to find any information on pet cows (dairy cows might be considered pets, but I'd like to raise really friendly, family cows). It's important to me to start with a calm, outgoing mama.

I appreciate corrections when it comes to things I'm doing wrong, but please no rudeness 
Thanks to any responses!


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## Bossroo

The question is WHY ?


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## Baymule

Cattle can be tamed to be friendly. But you must understand _their_  behavior patterns and _their_ thought process. Throw out every Disney movie you ever watched and realize that animals do not follow human thoughts and emotions. A tame cow will treat you like one of the herd. Cows play rough, they knock each other around, butt each other and exhibit other behaviors that could prove to cause you injury. If something frightens them, they will run, if you are in the way, you get trampled. Cows will knock you down to get to their feed.

There are tame cows that are calm, gentle and very sweet. But they are still cows and they think and act like cows. Do not ever forget that.

What is your goal? Do you want to raise a family dairy cow? Bull calves must be castrated and they go for meat. Can you deal with that? Not too many people want a 1,000 pound "pet" that eats his head off. Do you want to raise  a beef breed? Can you send the calves to slaughter? Farm life is real. Real life. Real death.   Yes, they die. It hurts and you pick yourself up and go forward. 

Maybe you should start with a dairy cow as a family milk cow. Jerseys are usually the breed of choice for this. You don't have to keep a bull, dairy bulls are notorious for being some of the most dangerous. You could have her Artificially Inseminated also known as AI. You have a vet do this. If your cow has a bull calf, have the vet castrate him, the vet can advise you on what age to do this. If your cow has a heifer calf, then you can raise her up to be a milk cow. 

It is possible to have a gentle cow and enjoy her. It takes a lot of time, care and daily commitment.


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## arsmagic

First to clear up the way I'm using the word pet. I say pet, because many cattle are simply left alone to be cattle and that's fine. But when I say pets, I'm talking about dairy animals that are raised as part of the family until old age.

To answer why- because I'd like to  SMALL farms selling cattle as pets are not unheard of, as many people would like a cow or two to milk that they can enjoy being around. Its a big deal for those people to find an animal who is used to humans. This is an even bigger market for goats.

When it comes to the nature of cows- I AM NOT expecting cattle to be anything like dogs. I just want to raise reliably docile animals for families to milk and raise themselves.

When it comes to bulls, yes they would be castrated. I don't think that I would be breeding so much that I would have more animals than I could find good homes for.

Honestly, although I talked about my goals a lot in this post, I'm not looking for advice on that aspect.
My main question is, what age is the best age to buy my first animal?
I see the post above me said a cow, and that would be great! But can cows easily get used to a new person?


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## Baymule

There is a farm several counties away from me that raises Jersey and Guernsey milk cows as nurse, meaning you can foster several baby calves on them, or as family milk cows. They sell them on milk for $1800 to $2800 each cow. Something like this would probably be the best way for you to start. Or find a dairy because when a cows production drops, she gets replaced. You might pick up a good cow that way.


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## arsmagic

Oh, I didn't know that was a thing. I'll have to look into that for the future! Thanks for the idea


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## Simpleterrier

Let me get this right. You want a pet cow for milk to breed and sell the calves as pets. Bull calves will become meat just a heads up. And heifer calves u could raise and tame to become milk cows then sell. Also it was confusing when u named two meat breeds. I was thinking you just wanted a pet for no purpose. But a milk cow is something different


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## arsmagic

Yes, sorry if I was confusing. Basically want to raise very tame and calm milk cows to sell to small family farmers. I really am hearing you guys on the bull calves. I would rather not raise animals to be sold for meat so I may have to rethink some things about my goals.

I know Brahman is a meat bread but they are so endearing to look at that I think they could do well as a sort of 'trophy' cow, even if someone didn't want to milk it. I've heard Highlands are good for both meat and milk with high butterfat, but may be wrong. They are both charming enough to make up for the weaker milk I think. I have found that people with fewer cows like to pick and choose breeds and traits differently, rather than buy whatever gives the best meat/milk.

The breeds are not set in stone anyway. More common breeds might end up making more sense when it comes to taming.


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## Baymule

Not trying to be rude or mean, but cows aren't generally used as pets. Males are meat, nobody keeps them for yard art. You have extremely thin chances of anybody wanting to buy your pet steers just so they can feed them and look at them. Farm animals serve a purpose. Mostly that purpose is meat, milk, eggs or breeding to make more animals for meat, milk or eggs. 

If you want a pet cow for family milking, by all means get one and enjoy her. Nobody will buy your steers with the stipulation that they not eat them.  

And raising Brahman cattle for "trophy" cattle?


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## arsmagic

Like I said, no plan for males atm. Early planning stages. I feel like people are getting hung up on what I said and not necessarily answering my question. I only gave background to why I wanted a tamer animal.

I've come across many people who like interesting looking breeds to keep and enjoy, rather than all of the black Angus breeds that fill farms. Maybe 'trophy' was the wrong word to use but no need to laugh at me  Not everyone wants farm animals for the same reason. There is a huge slaughter-free farm near me with over 150 cattle. And they are mostly Highlands, a 'meat' breed.


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## arsmagic

My biggest inspiration is Long Dream Farm, a slaughter-free dairy farm. Not sure what they do with steers or bulls, but they only sell as pets or lawnmowers, not feeders. They are a HUGE reason why this idea is not as BS to me as it is to many farmers who raise for meat production. 

I eat beef and respect farmers who raise cattle for beef, but that's just not what I want to do. The look and personality of cattle is most important when it comes to what I want to do!

Sorry if that doesn't line up with your guy's idea of what cattle are 'supposed' to be used for. I think I'll research somewhere else from now on, but thanks for the help!


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## Bossroo

Just for some food for thaught,  How much money do you have available for each pet cow to produce another pet cow to an age to  be able to be sold  for their  feed, housing, Vet., AI, vaccinations,  pasture land, transportation, labor, etc., etc.  per year ? If you whant this to be your business, you will have to show a profit to the IRS for 3 out of 5 years.  If not , you will not be able to deduct any costs incurred on your income tax since your operation is just a hobby farm.   Ask how much money that this slaughter- free farm with over 150 mostly Highlands actually spends per year for their keep and labor costs. If it is not a LARGE FORTUNE , they may have these cattle " rescued " by the local doo gooder bleeding hearts if they deem them to be neglected according to their own defenitions for  good husbandry standards.


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## arsmagic

I don't make enough money at all for cattle yet, which is why it's a far in the future endeavor. I just love researching and planning for it. I've always enjoyed farms and want a small-scale version of my own. You can Google Long Dream Farm to answer some of your questions, but no they are not a rescue farm. They have specialized breeding programs and a large milking operation. They are fairly popular in my area but I have no idea what their profit margin is. I wouldn't be looking for profit, which seems crazy to many people haha. Selling the calves could help with the raising costs, but I wouldn't mind if it didn't fully cover them.


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## goatgurl

please don't be upset with us. we are a pretty forthright about what we think and feel and will tell you what it is.  just know that just because we think it doesn't mean you have to do it.  many of us raise livestock from cattle to llamas to sheep to goats to pigs and all sorts of poultry.  many of us are also homesteader types who raise our own food so it is a little strange when the term 'pet cow' came along it didn't make a lot of sense to us.  when you explained that what you really want seems to be a friendly, reliable milk cow and that makes sense.  please realize that cattle, no matter how tame and friendly will always think like a cow and can hurt you without ever meaning to so you will always pay attention to what they and you are doing.  I've raise cattle off and on for years, from bottle calves to adults and they all have their own personality.  bottle babies will be pretty tame but can be really pushy and not have any respect for you and that can get you hurt.  you will have to figure out how to do things as you go along.  I hope things go well for you and your endeavor.  and by the way I totally agree with you that brahma cattle are adorable but I don't see much market for adorable. look at the zebu breed, mini brahma and cute as can be. don't know how they feel about being milked tho.   these pretty girls live down the road from me.  aren't they nice.


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## Bossroo

arsmagic said:


> I don't make enough money at all for cattle yet, which is why it's a far in the future endeavor. I just love researching and planning for it. I've always enjoyed farms and want a small-scale version of my own. You can Google Long Dream Farm to answer some of your questions, but no they are not a rescue farm. They have specialized breeding programs and a large milking operation. They are fairly popular in my area but I have no idea what their profit margin is. I wouldn't be looking for profit, which seems crazy to many people haha. Selling the calves could help with the raising costs, but I wouldn't mind if it didn't fully cover them.


 googled long dream farm.  seams to be  a disneyland type  long dream to reach ideal utopia through inefficient husbandry farming practices. but who knows ?


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## Finnie

arsmagic said:


> . There is a huge slaughter-free farm near me with over 150 cattle. And they are mostly Highlands, a 'meat' breed.


Maybe the owners of this farm can tell you what age of cow you should buy. 

If you are thinking of filling a niche market for sustainable lifestyle people who want friendly cows for their small farms, maybe miniature cows would be worth looking into. The idea of having a milk cow occurred to me not long ago, and I did some preliminary internet surfing, and quickly realized that a normal sized cow would produce far too much milk for my family. That's when I discovered miniature jersey cows. One more thing to add to my some day-maybe wish list.


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## farmerjan

Since you like the practices that this farm close to you follows, Long Dream Farm, maybe you can do an internship there and get some real day to day experience on what they do and how they do it.  That would give you both some practical experience and some lessons in the expense end of it too. 

I raise some jerseys and guernseys and use them as nurse cows and  to milk.  I like tame and mostly friendly cows as they are usually easier to work with.  However, making them too friendly or too tame can also have a downside because they lose the respect for you that is necessary for day to day interaction.  They are still cows as everyone has said, and they have to have some respect for you or you can get hurt.  They can hurt you from just pushing and shoving due to their size and not from them being mean or unmanageable.

I would  really encourage you to spend some time on a working farm to get a good feel for what you are trying to do.  I am all for cattle that are friendly and manageable  and I do not like or believe in being cruel to any animal regardless of the breed.  There is a line though and in this day and age unless you are independently wealthy, you can not justify  the costs of keeping an animal just as a pet. And when they have outlived their productive life, there is a time when you have to make decisions.  I have buried several of our "old cows" over the years as they were good cows and deserved to live their last few months/years out on our place.  But, most people who buy an animal, and have $1,000 to 3,000 tied up in them, can not afford to just bury them, but will need to salvage some of their investment back and to be able to invest in a replacement, or to just recoup some of that original investment.  Most people who are looking for a family type cow, for milk, are not able to just let that investment die of old age without getting something back out of it.  They are usually getting that animal to try to save themselves some money in the costs of milk and beef, and the calves off that animal are raised and eaten, or raised and sold to offset the cost of having that animal.

The dairy industry being what it is, having your own animal is seen as desireable to many people  but they still have to justify the costs.


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## farmerjan

I did take the time to look up Long Dream Farm and read about it and their practices.  They do get money from people who "SPONSOR" cows as well as having supplemental income from their "farm vacation stays" and I am sure there are other things.  I also studied their products and the prices.  Unless you are in an ultra high income area, the prices they charge will not be practical for the average person that wants their own animal  to help pay for their upkeep.  They also do not offer any kind of meat, so in my opinion are not being practical to do a balanced type of farming.  
I allow my nurse cows to raise their calves for 5-8 months and I have a couple that I also lock the calves apart at night and milk once a day and then allow the calves to be with their mothers for the better part of 12 hours.  This is nothing new with many homesteader type farms that are trying to be self sustainable.  It is a practical way to utilize the cows production without being a slave to twice a day milking.  
I do not breed my heifers at 15 months, but usually wait until they are more like 18-20 months so that when they calve they are a bit more mature, and are grown out enough to not put as much stress on their still growing bodies.  So they are not  doing anything earth shattering there either.  
But, not utilizing the male offspring for beef is just being blind.  A steer raised in a humane way for beef for your own table, is the best way to honor the production of that cow.  
I can tell you that there are just not enough places in this country that people will be willing to have a steer for a "lawnmower"  and what in the world will you do in all the colder climates where there is no grass for 4-6 months of the year for them to eat?   What do you do with an animal that has an attitude problem and won't go the "nice tame cow route" ?  What do you do with an older cow that becomes the "matriarch" of the family and becomes a bully?  It is not all nice/nice in the animal world.  I am sure there are animals that they have gotten rid of that do not come to light in this prospectus,  because they are animals and do not fit in with the program.

The farm is a "utopia" and is not doable on a scale to produce food for the average person that cannot afford those extreme prices,  no matter how much they might believe in it.  Humane decent treatment of an animal is the goal of nearly every decent farmer I know, and though the practices are different, not one dairy farmer that I have been around is unconcerned about the welfare of his cows.  Most cows eat better than most people that I know, their rations and diets are geared to providing every thing for the health and well being of the cow.  Better than the diets of many children that I have seen.

There is no one answer to your original question except that most baby calves that are bottle raised are friendlier because of their dependence on a human for their sustenance.

Good luck to you but I don't think that this forum is for you.  We are mostly all very decent farmer types, who are practical with what we want and expect our animals to provide for us.  We try to give them the very best life when we are raising them, and believe that their purpose is to provide us with companionship, as well as food and sustenance for our health.  We all mostly believe that there is a place for them in the food chain and that they are ANIMALS, and we do  not try to impose our human qualities on them.  

I PERSONALLY WOULD NEVER BUY AN ANIMAL FROM ANYONE WHO WAS ABLE TO DICTATE TO ME WHAT i COULD OR COULD  NOT DO WITH IT IN THE FUTURE.   That is a form of dictatorship that is beyond anyone's right.  I can see the requirements for adopting animals from shelters that require spaying/neutering to help control the population and some other things like that.  But for someone to tell me that I cannot feed out and eat an animal that I have bought, or that I have to keep it til it dies of old age...... sorry, not one person I know would agree to that.  

To each his own,  good luck in the future.


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## farmerjan

One thing, milking 20 or so cows and getting up to 50 is not a large milking operation.  It is very small by standards in this country.  And the dutch belted and randall lineback cattle they are breeding are in the minority but they are not as rare as you think.  One of the dairies I work with have both and they breed them  for milking cows.  Highlands are a basic beef breed, but they also are not as rare as you seem to think, and they are the preferred beef of the  royal family so they say..  To cross them they are actually losing the benefits of the individual breeds.  All are fairly quiet breeds, but I have some black angus that are like lap dogs, and an old guernsey cow that was bought at the stockyard that will run you over if she thinks you have some feed.  They are all raised on pasture, and roughage as they were designed to do.  So what they are doing is not so unusual.


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## greybeard

farmerjan said:


> I PERSONALLY WOULD NEVER BUY AN ANIMAL FROM ANYONE WHO WAS ABLE TO DICTATE TO ME WHAT i COULD OR COULD NOT DO WITH IT IN THE FUTURE. That is a form of dictatorship that is beyond anyone's right.


DING DING DING!!
Winner!

I didn't look at LDF website but from reading your posts, regarding the "sponsor" thing, it reminds me of the ad you see on TV for sponsoring an underprivileged kid in some backwater African or South American country.

If that is the premise, I gotta hand it to 'em. A brilliant idea!!
I might try it myself..
_For only $3.33 a day, you can make a difference. Just send me $100/month to raise and keep a calf fed, raised and cared for thru out it's life. You can name it, I'll send you pictures and even videos of it every few weeks so you can see you're making a difference in this unfortunate animal's life. Still going to be my animal, and if a heifer calf, I get all it's offspring, but you get the peace of mind knowing this poor animal will live out it's life here at Greybeard's place doing what cows do, but remember, make sure that check gets here before the first Friday of each month, otherwise, I'll have to put wheels under it and send it over to Livingston salebarn cuz I won't be able to afford to feed it. And, it it's going to be YOUR fault...   so get that check in the mail girls and boys otherwise your darling cow will quickly find itself as a very temporary McDonalds employee in the Big Mac division and I know you don't want that to happen...


 _

Man, I wish I had thought this up...I wonder what it would cost me to get Sally Struthers to do an ad?...


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## WyndSyrin

To answer your original post: In my humble opinion I would say if you want to have cows that are "docile" and people friendly, then I would start with some bottle calves about 2 months old. This way they will associate you with food and come to depend on you as "mamma." Raise them up and while you are doing that it is very wise to get them to respect you as the "head Cow" From there just feed them and get them used to being around you. Breed suggestions, I would would say maybe a Dexter. they are relatively smaller than most other cattle and can be used for both Milk and beef. At least so I have read


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## Bossroo

Humans have domesticated animals and plants for over 10,000 years now so that they could feed and clothe their families.  Now these folks come along and say we should not feed animals, in this case cattle, to  our families but keep them as pets and feed and care for them untill they die of old age.  I guess that all of these generations of farmers have been all wrong.


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## Baymule

As the saying goes, "If you want to save a heritage breed, then eat it." The reason is, if there is no financial benefit for feeding and caring for an animal, the farmer (who is not a charity case and must make a living) has no reason to raise said animal. 

We happily buy feeder pigs from breeders who raise heritage pigs. We give them the financial support to keep raising heritage pigs. We could choose to raise modern breeds for our feeder pigs (read that as meat for the freezer) but we choose to SAVE an old breed by eating it.


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## greybeard

Baymule said:


> As the saying goes, "If you want to save a heritage breed, then eat it." The reason is, if there is no financial benefit for feeding and caring for an animal, the farmer (who is not a charity case and must make a living) has no reason to raise said animal.
> 
> We happily buy feeder pigs from breeders who raise heritage pigs. We give them the financial support to keep raising heritage pigs. We could choose to raise modern breeds for our feeder pigs (read that as meat for the freezer) but we choose to SAVE an old breed by eating it.


 A LOT of merit to this /\.

The reason so many species/breeds of animals and plant products have become threatened is that the top of the food chain no longer had much use for them.


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