# Paying for the small farm with part-time sheep



## joshmod (Aug 26, 2013)

Hi All,

I had posted earlier about getting into sheep and really appreciated the responses I got and wanted to throw out another idea.  My wife and I have a couple of fun ideas for marketing sheep in the area and have this crazy idea that if we can raise a small flock on the side we could perhaps make enough money with them (through a combo of wool, raising breeding stock and perhaps a bit of meat) to help pay for the land.  I know most people would call this "farming" but the key here for us is being able to do it part-time (in lieu to my full-time job).  

Is anyone doing anything like this?  

Do you have any words of advice?

Has anyone actually started by renting land?

Thank you so much for your help!
-Josh


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## bonbean01 (Aug 26, 2013)

We have a small flock of hair sheep...I'm happy when they pay for their feed...two local farmers in our area with sheep do make a living on them, along with cattle...but they have several hundred sheep, not a small flock.

Have you looked into chickens?  More people find that better money wise than sheep.  Of course if you get sheep, your quality of life will go up big time...just love our sheep and lambing time is awesome.

Looking forward to more responses to your post.


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## BrownSheep (Aug 26, 2013)

It can be done but you're more likel just to break even. Our sheep earn their place by providing us with a lot of lamb to eat. Lamb is a high priced meat but the catch is most people can't sell it by the cut. Most states require you have a permit or at least send it to a USDA certified butcher, which can be far and few between. The nearest one to me is 2 hrs away. Not a trek I want to make with a trailer and than again to pick up. 
Selling butcher lambs you might be able to get 100-150 on Craigslist or directly to the buyer. At auction you'll get less.

If I were you I would find your niche market. I live near a resort town and if I didn't mind driving I could sell grass fed lamb pretty easily. A cousin live near Portland where there's a market for wool for spinners. So look for the niche be it wool, meat or milk. 
 I would then invest in registers stock registered goes for more than mutts.

I would suggest Icelandics. Just about everybody looking to get into sheep thinks about getting them at one point or another. Small carcasses so easier to peddle. Spinners seem to like them. Milk production is ok. Their hides are beautiful and make great rugs that, if sold online ( think artisan sites ) could probably go for 200-300. They also have horns which there is a market for. I talked to a guy who said he could sell a nice set of ram horns for 400. Who knows but that's what he said.

Most of your profit won't be monetary. They are a) great for enjoyment and b) great for material ( meat primarily)


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## CritterZone (Aug 26, 2013)

We would be happy to break even with our sheep.  This year we will sell several meat lambs, a potential breeding ram, and several potential breeding ewes.  We raise Jacob sheep, so we keep the skulls because the horns on even the young ram lambs are pretty cool and there is a market for them.  We also retain all of the hides from lambs that are butchered, have them tanned, and sell them.  We sold two fleeces this year to a hand spinner, and kept the rest for our own use.  We get $200 for a meat lamb, $100 per head (cleaned and processed, which we can do ourselves), $100 per hide (cost is $40 each to have tanned).  The potential breeding stock, if sold for that purpose, will bring about $150-$200 each (not all of our stock is registered).  So, if we sell 6 meat lambs and 6 breeders
6 x 200 = 1200 for the meat lambs (I won't figure in my gas to haul them 60 miles to a USDA processing plant)
6 X150 = 900 for the breeders
6 x 100 = 600 for the heads (not counting for the expenses to clean and process)
6 x 60 = 360 for the hides (includes processing, but not shipping costs)

For a potential total of $2060.  This will make a farm payment, and buy about 3 ton of alfalfa.

Last year we raised feeder cattle.  We had deposits for 4 1/2, and we bought 5.  We have 200 acres, and gave them 60 to graze for the summer.  We had about $100 into grain to finish 3 of them (two buyers wanted lean meat and did not want theirs grain finished).  We would have made about $3000 on that venture, but last minute 2 buyers backed out and we were stuck with two (really nice) finished steers.  We ended up taking them to auction and broke even.  We are not set up for cattle and they were a hassle, however, it was fun to work them with my horses (who do not, in any way, earn their keep).

We have also raised produce for the farmers market and private sales.  It is quite a bit of work.  We never figured out the time we had involved, but it never seemed like the sales were worth the effort.  The animals received the greatest benefit because they get all the excess produce and that makes them very happy.

So, we are not going to get rich raising sheep or cattle or produce.   We also raise laying hens, and the egg sales pay for their feed costs, and give us a little walking around cash.  We both have good jobs that support our farm.  If one of us didn't need to work and was able to devote 100% or our time, we might be able to make more money, but that is a big risk for either of us to quit.  

Having said all of that, I love our farm, and the animals, and the lifestyle and I wouldn't give any of it up.


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## SheepGirl (Aug 30, 2013)

joshmod said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> I had posted earlier about getting into sheep and really appreciated the responses I got and wanted to throw out another idea.  My wife and I have a couple of fun ideas for marketing sheep in the area and have this crazy idea that if we can raise a small flock on the side we could perhaps make enough money with them (through a combo of wool, raising breeding stock and perhaps a bit of meat) to help pay for the land.  I know most people would call this "farming" but the key here for us is being able to do it part-time (in lieu to my full-time job).
> 
> ...


There is no such thing as part time sheep keeping  It is a 24/7/365 job and you are on call day, night, good weather, horrible weather, holidays, etc.

How many animals are you looking to keep? How much land do you have?

I spend about the same time care for my 9 head as I did caring for the flock of 40 at my neighbor's farm some years ago. I feed the penned sheep, top off the water, and check everyone over. Takes about 20-30 minutes regardless of flock size. The more sheep you have, the more your 'labor' is spread out, meaning more profit earned per ewe.

You can make the most money selling breeding stock, with ewes fetching $150 to even $400+ and rams fetching $200 to as much as $600+. HOWEVER, if you want to get involved in breeding stock, you can't just sell any sheep as 'breeding quality.' Only 10-20% of your rams should be kept as rams. I had two rams born this year, I'm taking one to auction to sell as a slaughter lamb and I'm keeping one and growing him out to a yearling to see how he looks. I may use him on a ewe or two fall 2014 or I may just sell him. I had three ewes born this year, one of them froze in the snow though shortly after she was born. The other two, I have a reason to keep. My one ewe had the highest adj. weaning weight and the other was born a triplet. Actually, the triplet-born ewe lamb, though about 20 lbs lighter than the single-born ewe lamb, has a higher post-weaning ADG than the single ewe! SO I guess what I'm saying is only sell ewe & ram lambs you would keep in your flock yourself to improve it. Do not sell culls (slow growers, unthrifty animals, etc) just to make breeding stock prices. It is unethical and you won't have repeat buyers because you sell crap stock. The ram that sired my lambs this year, I'm thinking of going back to his breeder and buying another ram because I was so pleased with this one.

Market lambs are your bottom price point. ALWAYS assume you will be selling 0 breeding lambs so that way you can manage your flock expenses to maximize profit. If you sell market lambs for $1.40/lb at 90 lbs, you are getting only $126/lamb before auction fees and the lamb checkoff. So let's just assume you get $120 per lamb. Each ewe raises twins, so your ewe produces $240 worth of lamb, and let's just say she shears 5 lbs of wool at $0.80/lb, so one ewe is expected to bring in $243 worth of profit. Well if you are feeding your ewes grain when they don't need it or if you are giving them alfalfa hay when they can get by on cheaper grass hay, you are cutting into your profit. But you want to feed them that because you think you can sell a breeding lamb and make back that little bit of extra money spent. But what if you can't sell any breeding lambs? You are stuck with market lambs and then that extra money you put into their feed is just going into a terminal lamb. Doesn't make much sense. SO always shop around and find the cheapest (but still quality) feeds. I buy grass hay from a farmer for $0.0625/lb, but my neighbor also hayed his pasture (actually where my sheep used to live) and he's going to cut it again and he said he will make me a deal on hay AND even store it for me!

If you are interested in selling wool or meat, go to your state extension web site and look up information for "direct marketing." They have plenty of hints, tips, and tricks, and will help you figure out what your market is, where to sell, how much to sell, and what quality product your market is looking for/willing to pay for.

I would recommend you write yourself a business plan. You can look at mine on my web site http://twinwillowacres.webs.com/business-plan


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## joshmod (Aug 30, 2013)

Hi All,

This is very helpful!  We live in an area where I think we could potentially have a good market for wool with hand spinners (we live in western NC where there are a lot of arts and crafts stores and practitioners) and then also perhaps a pretty good meat market.  I have a 40-50 hour job per week that I love and my wife works about 10-15 hrs and stays home with the kids.  We are still looking for land in the area so we are not quite sure of what we will be able to come up with.  However, we want to find an enjoyable family-centric side business that we can do in the mornings, evenings and weekends that my wife can also handle if there are any hiccups throughout the day time.  Sheep and chickens have seems like good options for us, but we would really need them to pay not just for themselves, but some of the farm as well.  

Sheepgirl, your business plan and projections were amazing!  I really appreciate that you took the time to post those.  We have been thinking of potentially building up to roughly a 40-50 head flock, and I think by looking at your plan I could see how they would be helpfully profitable (without quitting my day job).  I also appreciate you breaking down different types of opportunities to market the sheep.  

Critterzone, your remarks are definitely encouraging in that there is potential to at least help pay for the land.

Brownsheep, I agree, with sheep you need a niche market.  I hope we have one here.  I am still in the process of researching that before we jump into full-fledged shepherdom.

bonbean01, I totally agree on the chickens.  I think between chickens and lamb we could make a pretty good showing at a farmer's market.  

I cannot really explain how thankful I am for the comments so far.  Thank you so much for your thoughts and please, please, please share more.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Aug 30, 2013)

*Definitely look at the market in your area. Out here I practically can't give them away.  I haven't found out how to make a dime from them yet. *


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## Sheepshape (Sep 1, 2013)

Good luck to you, but we have never managed to break even with sheep here.


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## boykin2010 (Sep 1, 2013)

This may not be true of your area, but the registered sheep in my area sell for 2 and sometimes 3 times as much as crossbreeds. 
Katahdins are the fastest growing sheep as far as popularity in America and most breeders sell out at least one year in advance. 
If you have a nice flock with good parasite resistance, muscling, growth on pasture etc. people will have no problem paying $500+ per breeder quality Kat lamb. 
Of course, I suggest Katahdins (wool is worthless in my area) but there are other breeds that sell just as well in other parts of the Country.  

Registered sheep eat the same amount of grass and grain that a crossbreed does... So if you are wanting to make money, I would check prices in your area and talk to some breeders of purebreds to see what their asking price is. Then contact some seller's with crossbreeds and see what their prices are like. 

Believe it or not, there is actually money to be made raising chickens.  Not so much selling eating eggs, but if you raise a pure "rare breed" and sell chicks, hatching eggs, etc. then there is a possibility to turn a pretty decent profit.


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## CritterZone (Sep 1, 2013)

I think to make money raising any animal, you need to be able to dedicate at least one adult full time to the endeavor.  You need to be able to grow, cut and bale your own feed (for hay eaters), and you need to have a solid market nearby to sell your animals or by-products.  We do best with our chickens - they bring in a bit of extra cash after expenses - but we aren't going to pay for the farm.  We are able to give away several dozen eggs every week to people in the community who really need it, and that feels better than cash in the pocket. 

And here's a big thing to consider.  You have kids and a stay at home wife.  If she is willing to work, and have the kids work along side her, you can make some money with a small farm, and you will raise wonderful, hard working kids who have an idea of what it takes to make it in the world.  That is not to say you can't raise great kids in the city, but farm kids are different. Will you flourish financially with a small farm?  Probably not.  Will your kids flourish in a way that money just can't buy?  Yes they will.


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## joshmod (Sep 3, 2013)

Hi All,

Thank you so much for the replies.  I am starting to think that sheep will be something we do because we just love them.  As some of you have mentioned, we are also looking into chickens.  I have thought about the rare breed idea but do not know much about it.  

Thanks again for the replies and please feel free to add any more thoughts.


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## Baymule (Sep 4, 2013)

Joshmod, don't forget it's not always about the money you make, it can be about the money you 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 If you grow a garden, can, dehydrate and freeze the excess for off-season consumption, then that keeps you out of the grocery store. Money $aved. If you plant fruit and nut trees, you get good food, nutritious food and great variety in your diet. Money $aved. Raise grass fed lamb, butcher it yourself. Money $aved. Chickens? Eggs and meat. Money $aved.

Not to mention the health benefits that comes from raising your own food where you know how it was grown and handled before it got to your plate. Of course you _know_ this ruins you forever as far as buying that imitation stuff at the grocery store. BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!


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## nigerianbreeder (Sep 5, 2013)

joshmod said:
			
		

> Hi All,
> 
> Thank you so much for the replies.  I am starting to think that sheep will be something we do because we just love them.  As some of you have mentioned, we are also looking into chickens.  I have thought about the rare breed idea but do not know much about it.
> 
> Thanks again for the replies and please feel free to add any more thoughts.


Go with Brahmas for chickens! Large, gentle, and decent layer. Good breeding stock can fetch a pretty penny. I didn't turn a profit this year due to the birds getting staph and then not eating. Thus not laying. But at The Ohio Nationals I will have lots of females to sell. Since I have good stock and wins to back it up I'll ask $20-30 per female ( most likely might go more on the high quality ones ). Males are where you lose money in chickens. Sorry for trying to change the subject.


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## joshmod (Sep 5, 2013)

Baymule said:
			
		

> Joshmod, don't forget it's not always about the money you make, it can be about the money you [b]save.[/b] If you grow a garden, can, dehydrate and freeze the excess for off-season consumption, then that keeps you out of the grocery store. Money $aved. If you plant fruit and nut trees, you get good food, nutritious food and great variety in your diet. Money $aved. Raise grass fed lamb, butcher it yourself. Money $aved. Chickens? Eggs and meat. Money $aved.
> 
> Not to mention the health benefits that comes from raising your own food where you know how it was grown and handled before it got to your plate. Of course you _know_ this ruins you forever as far as buying that imitation stuff at the grocery store. BWA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!


Baymule, I couldn't agree more!  I think that is actually how we got into this whole mess.  It started with the farmer's market.  We really liked the food and the farmers.  Well, then we started growing our own veg (in small quantities) and then we had to have a few laying hens.  Well, now we are renting a house that we have kind of maxed out on and we are thinking of buying, but to buy a place with adequate land it needs to support itself just a bit.  But realistically, we have not thought about how do we save money in other areas through the land.  We are obviously not farmers...yet.  But (insert soap box) I do believe that agriculture in our country (and the consumption of better food) will be changed through extremely small acts of agriculture.  People will raise enough for their family and a little more.  When you get entire communities doing this along with some small full-time farmers you will alter the way an entire community eats.  When these people do this around cities, you will change how a city eats.  Perhaps this is a dream to believe this, but we do.   However, we are very much in the research stage of trying to make this happen.  And who knows, it may not but we are certainly trying.  Thanks for the encouragement though!  You raise a great point that saving money is a major part of what it means to try to farm (especially on a very small scale).


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## joshmod (Sep 5, 2013)

nigerianbreeder said:
			
		

> joshmod said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice!  This is very helpful.  We have a love for many an animal, sheep being one of them, but we are very big fans of chickens as well.  Until recently the whole concept of raising breeding stock was fairly foreign to me but it seems crucial for a very small time farmer to make a little money on their stock.


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## Singing Shepherd (Sep 21, 2013)

I just wanted to post a small supportive comment to critterzone's remarks about farm raised children.  We really are a different breed...just how our thinking processes go seems to set us apart...sometimes to the derision of others.  I find as I age that more and more of the lessons learned at the handle of a hoe or the branch of an apple tree or the fenceline of a pasture full of cattle are the lessons that I see have shaped how I view the world and my place in it.  An honest, sustainable, integrity-filled relationship with the earth is invaluable to a life rich in charity and spiritual health. I thank God that my parents made the sacrifices necessary to set me such an example.  May I honor them in return.


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