# My bucks died!



## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 24, 2010)

A month ago I lost one of my bucks, we couldn't figure out why. He seemed to be just fine until the night I lost him. He ate just fine etc. When he was dying we felt him and he was wasted away to nothing. He didn't have any obvious signs of worm problems (his eyes where nice and pinkish red, no clumpy poo) and he ate as much as my other goats (he was the dominate buck). We didn't think it was urinary calculi either. An experienced goat owner called me and talked me through his death, she was puzzled also.

The next day I found out that our universities musk ox were dying in what sounded like the same way, and they deduced it was a lack of minerals. So I immediately started giving them a lot of kelp and made sure they had a salt/mineral block. They had been somewhat neglected before I got them for about a year.

This morning I went out to take care of the goats and my other buck was dead. Frozen and trampled. He weighed hardly anything and my husband had no problem throwing his body over the 6ft fence.

I called to have a necropsy done, but because he had frozen and the vet who does necropsy's was not in I am not able to get one done. A couple days before he died I had felt him to see how fat he was and he didn't seem as fat as my does, but he didn't seem as skinny as the other buck had been.

Since I can't get a necropsy done, and he seemed perfectly fine 24 hours before I discovered his death I don't know what is going on!

The is signs of the goats eating the insulation in their house, but if any of them had eaten the insulation and died from it, it would be my loopy doe who doesn't like to go outside in the cold to eat, so she doesn't get as much to eat as the others. (I do throw in hay for her) We moved all the goats (now just 4 does and one buckling) into the girls' house because it does not have insulation.

Please help me figure out what is going on with my goats! None of my does are very skinny, in fact several may still be too fat (they all were this fall) and my little buckling seems to be doing fine too.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 24, 2010)

I just looked up wasting diseases online, the first one that comes up is Johne's. The symptoms sound just like what I'm dealing with. I feel like freaking out.


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## Our7Wonders (Dec 24, 2010)

I don't have any ideas to offer, but I wanted to tell you how sorry I am to hear of your loss.  

I hope you're able to get some answers.


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## elevan (Dec 24, 2010)

I am so sorry.

I really don't have any idea of what could have happened.  But if it were me I would take a blood sample from each of my remaining animals to the vet for testing.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 24, 2010)

We plan on doing that ASAP. Thanks.


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## warthog (Dec 24, 2010)

I don't have any suggestions either.  I am so very sorry for your loss


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## freemotion (Dec 24, 2010)

Oh, crap.


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## lilhill (Dec 25, 2010)

So sorry for your losses.  Let us know what the blood sample results are when you find out.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 25, 2010)

My only suggestion would be blood testing for CAE, CL & Johnes which you are already planning to do. I would also suggest having a fecal done on  your animals and see if any parasites come up. Coccidia can be subclinical with no outward signs but can eventually destroy the intestines.

I'm so sorry for your loss!


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## rebelINny (Dec 26, 2010)

So sorry for your loss. Let us know how it goes. Good luck.


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## Ariel301 (Dec 29, 2010)

I also vote for testing, particularly CAE, Johne's, and parasites/coccidia. All of those can lead to chronic thinness and sudden death. Also, an animal that is very underweight is much more susceptible to dying from the cold than one with plenty of fat on it, so if they were very thin and it was very cold at night, it is possible they froze to death.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 30, 2010)

Im sorry!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 30, 2010)

Whatever my bucks died from, Johne's or not it's pretty contagious. A buckling that I sold I found out died on Monday, he too was a goatscicle so he couldn't be tested, but she said his death sounded just like my bucks. On Sunday the lady found out that one of her bucks that she had lent out for buck service had died. I don't know if his death sounded the same or not, but it's strange that so far only bucks have died.

I'm 99% sure it's not worms. I check their eyelids on the FAMACHA chart and both bucks were a healthy reddish pink. No clumpy poos or diarrhea. Eating well......

I'm looking into calling the state vet. Apparently if they think it's a contagious disease then they will come up here and test my animals for free.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 30, 2010)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> I don't know if his death sounded the same or not, but it's strange that so far only bucks have died.


My buck's coat is much fuller than my does- his hair is super thick and stands away from his body like he's got serious static going on.  It does make it much more difficult to assess condition at a glance than it is on my does whose hair is thick but tighter against the body.  Without getting my hands on him I don't think I'd notice weight loss as soon as I would with the does.  Bucks also tend to be a little fragrant, so maybe their condition isn't being physically checked as often?  If the weight loss was fairly rapid it might have gone unnoticed until there were obvious signs of distress, which sounds like it was too late.

Sorry about your situation, hopefully the testing will pinpoint something.


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## Roll farms (Dec 30, 2010)

FYI....Every state is different, but they are also free in some places to destroy any animals they find that test positive for certain diseases.

http://www.in.gov/boah/files/WhatHappens.pdf


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## babsbag (Dec 30, 2010)

How old are these goats that are dying? From what I read about Johne's it isn't usually a quick killer. I had a doe I was worried about and did quite a bit of reading on it. Here is a quote from one of the pages I bookmarked.

"The timeline roughly runs from birth to age one, no signs whatsoever; from age two to four, goats may begin to show signs of some weight loss but have no decrease in appetite until the disease becomes full-blown; and goats over age four who are heavily-loaded with the bacteria begin to look wasted. The mid-stage, from approximately age two to four, is the really dangerous time, because those goats look reasonably well but are shedding the bacteria like crazy."

Since my doe was only a year old I stopped worrying so much and started supplementing her feed. She had a kid on her and he was a big buckling. With some different feed my doe starting putting on some weight. My vet told me that when she was in vet school they told her that when you hear hoofbeats don't start looking for the zebra. I believe she told me that she has never seen Johne's in a goat, and she does treat and own goats. Obviously that doesn't mean that it doesn't exisit, we all know that it does. I hope that it is as uncommon as she says and your goats don't have it.

In California it is a reportable disease. So I wonder if that means if I have my herd tested and they were positive would the lab report it? Yikes.

I hope for good news for you.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Dec 31, 2010)

It's a reportable disease here too, even if you suspect it. My bucks could have been wasting away for a while and because of my inexperience in dealing with them and winter coats I didn't realize it.

Even if it isn't Johne's it is contagious and deadly, whatever it is.


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## kstaven (Nov 6, 2011)

Any updates?


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