# Age of Castration Debate (articles)



## WildRoseBeef (Feb 18, 2009)

Thought I'd bring these up because of a little argument I had with myself about which time to castrate calves is better, and how that affects their daily gains; I figgered a couple animal science journals might settle that argument.

The effect of Age of Castration 

Feedlot Performance and Carcass Characteristics of Young Bulls and Steers Castrated at Four Ages 

What're your thoughts?


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## donnaIL (Feb 18, 2009)

We have banded with the cheerio type bands in the first day or first week of life.  

We bought a callicrate bander several years ago and now band between 4-7 months...I personally prefer closer to 4 months versus 7.

Does it really matter..not sure, think that banding later lets the testerone grow the muscle a little more.  Sometimes its just more convienent to band them all at once instead of trying to get them when they are newborn & if you wait a few days sometimes they are running fast.  I'd rather just run them through the chute and after a few months the cows are not too protective either.


I did not read the PDF's having trouble downloading, but I think I have a pretty good idea what it says.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 18, 2009)

I glanced at the PDF's--time issue. But the first one they fed more corn to the bulls of course they consumed less of the silage-they were full of corn. They grew a little heavier-they had more corn. 

To me it doesn't really matter what the studies say, it's a saftey issue. Bulls at 7-8 months of age know they are a bull. Bulls are more dangerous. Steer them young and they never know they are a bull and are usually safer-always exceptions to the rule. Is it really worth a few more pounds of meat? Personnally, I don't think so.


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## WildRoseBeef (Feb 18, 2009)

That's what I thought...other thing that I notice when bulls are castrated at older than 7 months of age is that they tend to keep their bulliness longer than when it's done before the secondary sex characteristics set in when they're calves.

Like the one article says, sure you'll get more gains and they'll be heavier when they're of weaning age if you don't castrate until weaning age, but when they're cut or banded at that age (or older), the pain that settles in is more tougher on them and thus their daily gain and feed intake is compromised, no matter if they're beefers or not....

So the sooner they're done the better.

edit: Thanks kitty, for moving the thread to the proper forum.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 18, 2009)

> edit: Thanks kitty, for moving the thread to the proper forum.


You're welcome.


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## jhm47 (Feb 18, 2009)

OKAY---Here's my two cents worth on this.  We raise our cattle on the large pastures of South Dakota.  Our cattle are much different than the majority of those that are written about on this site.  We castrate shortly before weaning in the fall.  We have minimal contact with them all summer long, so they have little or no chance of being a danger to us.  Those calves that are raised in a backyard, and are with people every day, and often come into contact with children definitely should be castrated when younger.  If ours were in our backyard, they would definitely be steers.


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (Feb 19, 2009)

From my experience, calves castrated at birth are less stressed, but grow smaller.  Calves castrated at weaning gain better, but it's more stressful.  I always use banding.


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## wynedot55 (Feb 19, 2009)

well i for 1 do not cut the calves.i send bull calves to the sale.


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## donnaIL (Feb 19, 2009)

WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> That's what I thought...other thing that I notice when bulls are castrated at older than 7 months of age is that they tend to keep their bulliness longer than when it's done before the secondary sex characteristics set in when they're calves.
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> Like the one article says, sure you'll get more gains and they'll be heavier when they're of weaning age if you don't castrate until weaning age, but when they're cut or banded at that age (or older), the pain that settles in is more tougher on them and thus their daily gain and feed intake is compromised, no matter if they're beefers or not....
> 
> ...


I disagree with several of these statements above.  My beef bull (I cannot speak for dairy bulls) calves do not generally show "bulliness" behavior or look until closer to one year.  Also I have had bull calves cut by the vet when purchased (sale barn) and have banded with a callicrate bander at 7 to 8 months.  Neither the cut or banded bulls showed "pain", if anything they show a mild discomfort for a few minutes and then are up acting normally.  Also I have never had any daily gain or feed intake compromised,  we corral them after banding for a short time to observe them and make sure that all is okay, offer feed and all of the animals we have banded are eating immediately.

The "sooner the better" comment  may apply for those who do not have handling facilities or will be keeping animals confined or in the backyard as jhm47 said.  I like to do them all at once instead of dealing with young calves with protective mothers (all cattle are dangerous) and sometimes weather conditions are not ideal.

I think it is a management choice when to cut or band bulls ...or even whether to do it at all.  There are several farms here who do not, they consider their beef to be "natural".


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## wynedot55 (Feb 19, 2009)

yes dairy bull calves can be a tad meaner.but that is their tendency.an some dont get rough till they are older.but new cattle people.need to always be safe.


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## donnaIL (Feb 19, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> yes dairy bull calves can be a tad meaner.but that is their tendency.an some dont get rough till they are older.but new cattle people.need to always be safe.


True..everyone, expecially people new to cattle need to be safe.  I am not opposed to early banding or castration..just stating some people have different managment practices due to their situation and experiences.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 19, 2009)

donnaIL said:
			
		

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Okay, folks, the main thing here is this is a back yard cow forum, not a cattleman/woman forum. Those of us who are cattlemen/women are here to help others with less experience. 

Bulls out in the wide range pasture are different than those in someone's back yard or small acreage-I think we all agree there. And I think we all agree that for the ones with the back yard cattle it's best, for saftey reasons, to have them banded or casterated at a young age. 

And yes, dairy bulls can be meaner and at an earlier age. When we fall behind with breeding our heifers AI and DH goes looking for a bull he looks for the 8 month to 1 year range. When they hit 2 years old they go-It's a fact that after that is when more problems with behavior in a dairy bull happen. Whereas, from what I'm gathering here on the board, that is getting to be the age when beef bulls are more favored.


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## WildRoseBeef (Feb 19, 2009)

donnaIL said:
			
		

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That's pretty much what I was trying to say, only you put it into better words than I did...But of course they're up and eating as soon as it's all done, that's typical.  But what I was trying to say that they would eat less after they've been castrated even though you wouldn't notice it.  And by "pain" I did mean a slight discomfort, not like pain pain where they're sickly with pain.  As for the bull calves showing their bulliness, I stand corrected on that part.

Guess I used too over-emphasizing words in my previous post.



> The "sooner the better" comment  may apply for those who do not have handling facilities or will be keeping animals confined or in the backyard as jhm47 said.  I like to do them all at once instead of dealing with young calves with protective mothers (all cattle are dangerous) and sometimes weather conditions are not ideal.
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> I think it is a management choice when to cut or band bulls ...or even whether to do it at all.  There are several farms here who do not, they consider their beef to be "natural" .


In my limited experience with cow-calf I just think that having the bull calves done before weaning or soon after they're born is better than having to deal with the little buggers at weaning time.  IMHO castrating at weaning just adds to the stress, although I'm sure all of you are quite aware of that.   And with the bulls that we get through backgrounding calves, I say the sooner the bulls are caught and cut the better because if you leave it until they're a year old or so man oh man   Like I said you're right donna, they don't really start showing they're bulliness until they're closer to a year old,  but it seems like they start like to stir the pot earlier than that.

Of course each and every producer's gonna have different ways of doing things, but even then its kinda interesting to hear about these different methods.  Maybe we'll learn something new.


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## donnaIL (Feb 19, 2009)

To everyone, I was not trying to step on anyones toes...just debating the castration issue.  And I was unable to read the articles because something is wrong with my adobe.  

I know that some people round them up castrate, give shots and wean at same time.  We have a small herd, and calves are usually born from early spring through summer...we usually round the bull calves up after all cows have calved and band at that time, thats easier for us.  We usually do not wean at that same time...we are trying to get it done sooner than later.  

I do not trust any cattle, bull or not.  It is, in most cases, easier and safer to band a young calf..I realize many people buy bull calves and do not have protective cows around.  My advise would be to get them before they can run to fast!  Good Luck to everyone in their banding ventures


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## amysflock (Feb 26, 2009)

Very timely thread as this is on my mind currently...

T-Bone, our Scottish Highland bull calf, is 14 weeks old today, and growing fast. We were starting to think he's too big to be banded, but after reading about banding at weaning, I now have another question:

What type/size of bander do you use at that age? I guess I thought banding wasn't possible by weaning time and we'd have to have the vet out to castrate, but maybe not? Of course, we'll have to have him out anyway to give Annabel her bangs shot and tatoo (so I can learn how to tatoo our registered animals), so it wouldn't be a big deal to have the vet castrate T-Bone at the same time...but...


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 26, 2009)

I'm not sure but, I think by that age it's best to have the vet castrate him. Maybe one of the beef guys can pipe in for you.


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## wynedot55 (Feb 26, 2009)

you can band him if your comfy doing that.just make sure both balls have dropped down into the sack.they have tobe in the sack before you can band him.


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## Farmer Kitty (Feb 26, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> you can band him if your comfy doing that.just make sure both balls have dropped down into the sack.they have tobe in the sack before you can band him.


At 14 weeks they should be-at least I know they would be with a dairy breed.


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## WildRoseBeef (Feb 26, 2009)

amysflock said:
			
		

> Very timely thread as this is on my mind currently...
> 
> T-Bone, our Scottish Highland bull calf, is 14 weeks old today, and growing fast. We were starting to think he's too big to be banded, but after reading about banding at weaning, I now have another question:
> 
> What type/size of bander do you use at that age? I guess I thought banding wasn't possible by weaning time and we'd have to have the vet out to castrate, but maybe not? Of course, we'll have to have him out anyway to give Annabel her bangs shot and tatoo (so I can learn how to tatoo our registered animals), so it wouldn't be a big deal to have the vet castrate T-Bone at the same time...but...


I've seen some real big banders used on weaner cattle, a friend's dad used them, but I'm not sure of the success rate with that because I've never used it before, lol!

But, since the calf is only 14 weeks old, (and a smaller breed), I'm sure your local feed store would have bands that are a little larger than the ones used for calves that just came out of the womb a day or so ago.  And yet if you feel more comfortable with getting your vet to handle it, by all means..


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## jhm47 (Feb 26, 2009)

You could also have them surgically removed, provided that it's not yet fly season where you live.  And---there's also the "pinch" method, where you use an instrument called a burdizzo to pinch off the cords and arteries to the testicles.  This is similar to the banding method.  The pinch method allows the calf to keep his scrotum at least, where the band method causes the whole thing to eventually fall off.  I have occasionally had problems with the band method causing tetanus, which causes the calf to die.  I will not use that method again.

Actually, any of the methods has it's advantages and disadvantages, so follow your vet's advice.


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## donnaIL (Feb 27, 2009)

We have a "callicrate bander", it can be used on any size of animal...but it is expensive, I saw it online for $239.99..can't remember exactly what we payed.   

I have also heard of people using a "california bander" it is similar to the callicrate.  Only thing I have red is sometime people don't get the band tight enough with it.  

If you can get the small band around him, I would think it would be okay.

Might just be easier to let the vet take care of it if he/she is coming out anyway.  

If you google the 'callicrate" there is a Youtube showing how it works.


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## laughingllama75 (Feb 27, 2009)

We have ours "crimped" by the vet, as we only have a bull calf or 2 at a  time. Pretty painless (at least it seems to be) and no blood to worry about so the time of year does not matter. I like the way they grow with doing them at about 14-16 weeks.


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## GrassFarmerGalloway (Feb 28, 2009)

I to banding at weaning.  It only hurts them for a few moments, until the blood supply is cut off.  No blood, no feeling.  I do it at weaning because they grow bigger.  It's more stress, but the trade off is a hundred pounds more.


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## JerseyXGirl (Mar 19, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

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What is a young age?  My JerseyX are aprox. 14 days should be done now?


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## WildRoseBeef (Mar 19, 2009)

JerseyXGirl said:
			
		

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Young is anywhere between birth and sexual maturity.  So in short, yes your calves could or should be cut/banded now.


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## Farmer Kitty (Mar 19, 2009)

You have to make sure that both testicles have dropped before banding them. Surgically, it doesn't matter. I would guess your's are probably not ready to band yet.


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## WildRoseBeef (Mar 19, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> You have to make sure that both testicles have dropped before banding them. Surgically, it doesn't matter. I would guess your's are probably not ready to band yet.


yeah but it still dont hurt to check.


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