# Baby goat defects - born with Apodia



## nhfarm (Dec 6, 2011)

I just had a doeling born without back legs from the hock down. I have tried to research on the web what might have caused this. Two previous single births to this doe were just fine. We had an extreme drought this summer with temperatures in excess of 100, but my goats are fed grain and hay throughout the year and have shelter. My two nannies that I though should have normally birthed in late October or November have still not birthed and it is the 6th of December although appear very healthy and everything is fine. I did feed some alfalfa this summer (high quality that I feed my show horses) in addition to their normal grass hay. My nannies run with a full time buck. Could all of these conditions be due to the extreme drought and high temperatures? I did not think that the doeling would thrive and she has and somehow has figured out how to suck. I left her in the care of her dam as I thought that she would not thrive and that she would have the excellent care that he dam gives her with licking and warmth until she passed, but apparently she is figuring out how to nurse and is thriving and so I am going to have to take her today to the vet to be put down. I can not take care of that myself. She only has nubs below the hock and is a little overshot in the lower jaw so she has several genetic issues, but I have had none in the past. I would appreciate any input that can be given. I am very distraught over this.

****Just added note.... I have been researching and just discovered that Valbazen given during pregnancy can cause these defects and I wormed my goats with this at the end of the summer which would have been during the window when you should not. I thought that was a safe and effective wormer and have used it on them two times during this gestation period. I am just sick.... I don't know how I did not catch that warning. I am now afraid for the two remaining nannies to birth and also one that was bred during the early fall that I wormed with it recently. I really blew it on my goat husbandry!!! I have raised goats for years and have used Valbazen and never realized its danger!!!


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## cmjust0 (Dec 6, 2011)

First off, sorry.  That's really awful..   

I wouldn't necessarily think it's due to anything in their natural environment, i.e. drought, heat, etc..  Lots and lots of goats are born under conditions far hotter and drier than most of us see in the US, and you don't hear about this being a common problem.  If this has anything to do with environment at all, I'd look to any medication the dam was given during pregnancy first.  After that...genetics.  Birth defects do happen naturally sometimes, unfortunately.  I know someone who experienced a two-headed kid.  The dam couldn't pass it, and so she died, and the kid(s?) died as well.  It's terrible, but not unheard of.

Again, sorry you had to go through it.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 6, 2011)

Defects happen.  Sometimes there just isn't an explanation.  You could have done everything right and fed everything correctly and a chromosome got messed up.  It's a natural phenomenon that can't always be explained.   

I'm sorry for your pain and your sadness.  I wish I could help make you feel better about it, but maybe you can take comfort in knowing that  you did what everything you could that was right, and her mama did what was right.  And God or whatever higher power there is will do what is needed to make things in the world balance out.


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## peachick (Dec 6, 2011)

I am so very sorry.  

This is the hard part of breeding animals....  usually its all beautiful and wonderful.  Occasionally its miserable.
Just know that we all understand what you are feeling.


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## nhfarm (Dec 6, 2011)

Thank you now that I know after researching (too little too late) that Valbazen CAUSES BIRTH DEFECTS that I may end up with several more when my other two nannies deliver in the next couple of days. I tear up just thinking what outcome my error might cause. I have to put down a doeling with a strong will to live (obviously) and may have several more.... birthing is something I usually look forward to.... now I am dreading what the outcome might be.


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## jodief100 (Dec 6, 2011)

I am so sorry.  These things just happen sometimes.  It may or may not have been the Valbazen.  You are doing the best thing for her.  It is hard, but it is best.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry about that. At least you now know the cause. Congenital defects can happen too. Sometimes they just aren't right and there isn't a good reason. Unfortunately a part of owning livestock.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 6, 2011)

Sorry and hugs    Valbazene is not a good idea during pregnancy. We used it once and had two abortions the next day. Never used it again during pregnancy. We use cydectin when the does are pregnant.  but others use ivermectin or safegaurd.  Those two wormers aren't very effective for us.  But may work just fine for you.


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## elevan (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm sorry that you have to go through this.

Try not to beat yourself up.  I had a vet tell me once that Valbazen was safe to use on my pregnant does....  Everyone makes mistakes.  What is important is that you learn from them.  And I second Jodie - it may not have even been the Valbazen.

  Hoping that your remaining pregnancies result in births that have no issues.

Best wishes for you and your goats.


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## nhfarm (Dec 6, 2011)

It may have just be nature, and it could have been my error and the Valbazen that were the cause... I for sure am not going to use any wormer in the future that is unsafe during any part of a pregnancy just as a safeguard. Thanks for your thoughts. Is Cydectin safe during all stages of pregnancy?


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## nhfarm (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks and I will update when the others birth... by all signs it should be in the next couple of days! This is a very supportive group and I am glad that I joined.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 6, 2011)

nhfarm said:
			
		

> It may have just be nature, and it could have been my error and the Valbazen that were the cause... I for sure am not going to use any wormer in the future that is unsafe during any part of a pregnancy just as a safeguard. Thanks for your thoughts. Is Cydectin safe during all stages of pregnancy?


I have heard of cydectin warnings during pregnancy, but I also know lots of people who use cydectin during pregnancy. I don't know anyone who uses valbazene during pregnancy.  I would say, I would avoid all wormers as much as possible the first tri-mester. If you have to worm the first tri-mester go with safegaurd or ivermectin.


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## elevan (Dec 6, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> nhfarm said:
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Safeguard and ivermectin are the _only _dewormers that _I _will use during pregnancy.


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## nhfarm (Dec 6, 2011)

I agree when I know that my does are breeding I will not worm at all.... or during the first 45 days.... lesson learned  
It was just so hot and dry and I had to restrict my goats to a smaller area and so the threat of worms seemed to be worse and so I wanted to make sure that I was protecting them better... go figure!


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## elevan (Dec 6, 2011)

nhfarm said:
			
		

> I agree when I know that my does are breeding I will not worm at all.... or during the first 45 days.... lesson learned
> It was just so hot and dry and I had to restrict my goats to a smaller area and so the threat of worms seemed to be worse and so I wanted to make sure that I was protecting them better... go figure!


Dewormers are best used as a defense and not an offense (reactively not proactively).  Use them because you're dealing with worms, not as a preventative.

For more information on parasite management check out this link:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt

I dewormed Daisy (my doe) one month post breeding with both Ivomec and Safeguard and she just gave birth to 2 healthy, beautiful kids.  While I second the notion of trying to avoid deworming early in pregnancy, if you need to then use a safe option.


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## 20kidsonhill (Dec 6, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
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unfortunatley ivermectin and safegaurd are not strong enough wormers for our area, so cydectin is a better choice than synanthic, in my opinion, synanthic still works well.  there is another one, newer stronger, can't think of it off the top of my  head, we haven't used it yet. I want to say something like Prohibit or something like that.


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## Roll farms (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm sorry.


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## Chickie2378 (Dec 6, 2011)

You know now.  Check your wormers AND anything else you administer on pregnant does.

So much can go wrong if you give that one wrong med.


So sorry this happened.  but any learning curve is going to happen on a farm and with birthing.  I had my share.




Read up on worming rotation and safety for preg. does.  It can only help you.  Yes, putting the kid down is obviously the best option.

We learn thru hard situations.  



We worm before breeding, hard.  Then only worm IF NEEDED thru a fecal on each preg. doe.   So if not necessary you are not giving something that is not needed.


Then after birthing we do a fecal and see what is needed and hit for that spectrum of problems if any.


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## DonnaBelle (Dec 6, 2011)

Yes, I'm sure that all of us have learned through our mistakes.

But I do agree with the other posts, it might not have been because of the Valbazen at all.  Sometimes things just happen.  

We are all thinking about you and hoping the rest of the kiddings go smoothly.

DonnaBelle


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