# Pen Suggestions ~ Updated with PHOTOS



## lupinfarm (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm having some issues with my new goat pen. We've decided to scrap the 4-board idea since bringing home April and have also decided to double the size of the pen. My issue is that beyond a certain point I can no longer sink wood posts. There just isn't enough space between the rocks to dig, however I am fairly certain I can sink t-posts (pretty well super certain, there is a t-post in the general vicinity that the old owner used to tie up his dog and it is pretty well stuck in there, like we're talking an elephant couldn't take that thing out). We are looking at buying the wire stock panels and affixing them to our wood posts and t-posts. 

Has anyone gone this route? How did it work out for you? How secure would you say your pen is? I'll be adding electric as well to the inside to keep the goaties in. About 1 1/2 sides of my pen will be t-posts, maybe 6 to 8 posts in total and I'm hoping to sink posts along the driveway side with wood so we're a little more secure onto the driveway. 

My major concern is not the Pygmy girls but April who appears to have a little talent for jumping up very high. The goats for the most part will be standing downhill from the fence and the fence will be about 4ft high with electric at 6" and electric at 4ft. Should I add more electric? 

I still haven't got my large pasture up yet because of our terrain and the sheer cost of it and I wanted to get them a pen going before I go off to school so they have free access to outdoors at all times. In addition to the pen they'll have the 13ftx17ft goat shed too.


----------



## glenolam (Jul 15, 2010)

I have t-posts with welded wire field fence, then 2 strands of electric at about 4" and 4 ft along the inside.  Works like a charm.  Our t-posts go through swamp and dry lands and it was a PITA to put them through the swamp.  I would even say that some of the posts really aren't in that well.  But with the electric the goats don't even dare to test it anymore.

We do have one teeny tiny peice of "wood" fence - that is to say, we stuck a cedar post in to attach the gate, then attached a few 2x6's to the cedar post and a tree that's a few feet away.  then we nailed the field fence into the tree as the starter point and on to the t-posts.  I did have to put chicken wire along the bottom of the 2x6's though, because there's no electricity there and the little ones could fit between and under the boards.

I would say keep the option to add more electric, but I think with just those two strands you'll be fine.  My Eloise could jump over the 4ft fence like no one's business - as soon as I put up that strand she changed her tune.

Kind of now glad we didn't know any better and bought the cheap field fence instead of the "goat" fencing that costs about $100 more.


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah I'm looking at stock panels, the 16ft x 4ft high welded wire panels mostly because of the ease of putting them up. We're now planning on sinking t-posts for our main pasture and just putting panels up as we can afford them. As long as this pen is finished before I go to school I'll be a happy camper. 

Now... to socialize April :/ We're getting there, she'll sniff me if I don't look at her lol and she'll eat out of a feed pan if I hold it. Cissy still hates her, Mione is curious.


----------



## glenolam (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm not sure how expensive everything is for you compared to me, but a 330ft roll of 4 ft field fence is $140 here, so you'd need roughly 21 panels at 16ft long to cover the same distance.  Panels here are $20, so that's $420.00 to cover 330 ft.  I know the panels may be more sturdy, but IMO if you're spending the money on the electric, you should save where you can on the actual fence.


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 15, 2010)

I'll have to ask at the co-op but I think its more expensive for our field fence. The main concern is the small pen, which I'm okay with panels for... the big field may be more worth it to go with field fence but that is for another day, yanno?


----------



## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> Yeah I'm looking at stock panels, the 16ft x 4ft high welded wire panels mostly because of the ease of putting them up.


I'd rather take a whoopin' than have to deal with cattle panels.  Seriously.  They're big, they're heavy, and they're wobbly....I've always found that putting up panels is like trying to push a rope.

If all you can get in the ground are t-posts, I'd go electric.  

Well, I mean...I'd go electric anyway because it's awesome and is by far the most superior of all fencing types ever devised by the human mind...  ...but a situation where you can't put much post in the ground really is a good candidate for a _psychological_ barrier, simply to avoid physical pressure on the fence.

Plus, electric's WAY easier than hossing cattle panels around.  

Serioulsy...I HATE those things.  

Oh, and btw...unless your ground is perfectly, absolutely, positively flat...you'll have gaps under panels.  They don't flex like woven wire.  

I really hate panels.  

Really.

Ok.. </rant>


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 15, 2010)

:/ I know you are the worlds biggest advocate for electric fence and I love it too but I'm not sure how it'll work for our small pen. It would probably be fine for the larger field, sure, but the pen is small. I was thinking of going with half field fence and half panels for the pen. I can probably run some type of woven fence on the sections that are by the house and on wood posts, but running it on the t-posts may be interesting. 

Hmm.. combination fencing... the t-post section is out of sight.... 


cmjust0, do you have your electric on t-posts? I COULD run electric on the hillside pasture except for the areas that meet the driveway (mum needs some sort of real barrier that isn't electrified here because she has a business and kids tend to be here with the parents and it would be horrible if a kid touched a highly powered electric fence and so on).


----------



## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

> cmjust0, do you have your electric on t-posts?


Oh yeah!  More t-posts than wood posts, probably.  

The only places where I feel it's necessarily to bury a wood post is:

1) A corner or turn in the line.
2) Where a fenceline ends.
3) Where there's a big dip in the ground and the tension on the wire will pull a t-post out of the ground.

That's it.

If it's a straight line of fence without a big dip, wood posts really aren't required.  There are spans through the woods toward the back of my property where there's not a wooden fence post for hundreds of feet.

That's one of the beauties of hi-tensile...the wire basically just floats on the post, so the post is largely irrelevant.  So long as it'll stay in the ground, you're good.  And not only is it easier to sink a t-post in the ground, it's _much much much_ cheaper.


----------



## mossyStone (Jul 15, 2010)

I have three stock panel pens I LOVE THEM! my pygoras live in them and i can move them with ease.. 
No one has climb out or under or thur for nearly 3 yrs of useing them. My nubians are housed in 6 ft no climb field fenceing more because of my dumb A%% Neighbors .
 I dont have hot wire up at this time, but i might someday use that on my neighbors side  
Our whole place is then fenced with 5 ft feild fenceing every one stays in that lives here...  And My GP keeps anything not living here out....


 But i really like the panels they work for me and my land is hilly and uneven in places!

Mossy Stone Farm


----------



## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

Now, I will say this...cattle panels are AWESOME for tomatoes!  We have two three-panel-long rows with tomatoe plants on both sides of each row, and we just tie the plants to the panels as they grow.  No caging, no staking -- just put up the panels and yer DONE.

Otherwise...hate'em.


----------



## patandchickens (Jul 15, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> I'll have to ask at the co-op but I think its more expensive for our field fence.


It may vary a little, but FWIW I was just pricing that sort of fencing last week (for sheep not goats) at our local co-op.  I ended up spending $199 (before tax) on a 20-rod (330') roll of 9-wire 39" fencing, the kind where the bottom holes are approx 2x4" and the upper holes more like 4x4". "Normal" field fencing, with the 6x12" holes and 48" high, was essentially the same price per running foot, but I felt the holes were too big for lambs. They also had some 48" 4x4" fencing but it only came in a 40-rod roll for like $400 and I really don't have almost 700' worth of sheep to fence LOL



> The main concern is the small pen, which I'm okay with panels for... the big field may be more worth it to go with field fence but that is for another day, yanno?


IMO if you are making a _small_ pen, like 16x16 or something, it really does make good sense to use cattle panels or like that, because they are more rigid than roll fencing and thus will wibble and flop a bit less. (Which is particularly important without the ability to put in good posts, since you won't be able to put much tension on the fencing). Plus I can certainly understand the "total investment at the moment" type issue, even if "price per linear foot" is cheaper when buying a whole roll of fencing.

Actually another option for a 16x16ish pen, albeit not an inexpensive one but very REUSABLE and handy, is to get four 16' gates (or three, and use the wall of a building as the fourth side), put t-posts at the corners where you connect them, and 'sew' 4x4 (or whatever) wire mesh on to smallen-up the gaps. Gates are a bit pricey unless you can score some at auction, but they last more or less forever and then you will HAVE 16" gates that can be used for any number of things (gates, emergency horse stalls, small structures, etc)

Here is another idea, don't know if you've considered it -- make a stout rectangular frame out of 2x6 wood or heavy steel pipe, and then attach 2x4 mesh (or chainlink, if you have a source of recycled or cheap stuff and enjoy dealing with chainlink installation). The nice thing about that is you can make it ANY height, even 6' if you want, just as long as the panels are not so tall in relation to the length of the pen sides that they are prone to blow over. Then just attach those rigid panels you've made (like kennel panels) into a square or whatever, and there ya go.

Likely you will HAVE to run a wire on the inside top to discourage climbing, and a low digproofing wire on the outside vs coyotes. But, I am with you on not wanting to put TOO much electric wire in a small pen, as it can really cut into animals' ability to use what space they got.

Pat


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for the awesome suggestions Pat. I had thought about the gates but I seriously just watched Cissy and Mione escape for a 50ft roundpen through a 6" gap... no joke... They went right under it. Now, okay fine there was no electric to keep them away from it but they are pretty chunky little beasts and it was somewhat disturbing to watch haha. 

I was just gassing up in town/getting a coffee and my friend with horses who lives around on the next road works at the gas station and she USED to have goats (lots of boer goats, she taught them how to walk on leads and do tricks and such... the woman can train anything I swear) and she got rid of her goats a while ago and has had issues with her 3 younger horses busting through the wire fence and has offered me some 2x4 chainlink type fencing, about 120ft of it (this is about 6ft more than I need for my pen) for free/in exchange for man power (we've offered up my brother ha) and some electric fence supplies (which we have lots of) as she plans on replacing with just polyrope which is much less precious and just about the only thing her horses actually respect. So now that I've got the fencing itself sorted (thank heavens!) I'm almost good to go aside from purchasing about 10 bags of cement to do the remaining posts we WERE able to dig. 

I'm going to try out the wedgeloc too for 2 of the corners, see how it works out. I am still going to have electric, 2 lines maybe 3 if Cissy won't stop rubbing on the fence but I'll let you know how it goes. LeAnn (lady with the fencing) has hers on tposts with wood corner posts and hers has stood the test of time for about 5 years so IMO thats not too bad. 

I've probably got around 300-400ft of field fencing to put up in the actual pasture. yikes. the pen is definitely a necessity. i have a small pen behind our garage that the two go out to during the day with April staying in until she's socialized enough that she won't run off and never be caught again should she escape but I leave in about 25 days to live in Toronto and they need a pen before I leave!


Oo, may as well note that our pen is about 35ftx35ft, thankfully I finally got my hands on a metal roundpen which we use in emerge situations for the pony as it can be a good sized pen or a boxstall or whatever.


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 15, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> > cmjust0, do you have your electric on t-posts?
> 
> 
> Oh yeah!  More t-posts than wood posts, probably.
> ...


:/ I'm not even sure in some instances we *can* get wood posts in corners or dips in land. Seriously. Its a goats paradise here, the whole hillside is pure rock... and not small rocks.. I'm talking probably some bigger than your house... connected to the earth... kinda dealio. 

Mum is onboard for electric now though aside from on the driveway which is fine with me.


----------



## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> cmjust0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here's a handy trick I heard once..  

Take a section of welded wire fence -- can be old fence, doesn't matter, and make a 'cage' out of it by connecting it back to itself.  Maybe like 2' across, I guess?

Don't quote me on that.  

Anyway, you set this cage wherever you need your corner to be and proceed to throw pretty good sized rocks into the cage.  When it's full, it ain't goin' nowhere.

Voila -- there's your corner post.


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 15, 2010)

Yeah theres quite a few larger farms with corner posts like that. In some areas I may be able to sink corner posts since they're down by the horse pasture which is less rocky. 

On the upside, I think Cissy and Mione have accepted that April ain't going anywhere lol. Also, Cissy is a bit down today... the vet mentioned she may be a little lack luster as she's on quite a high dose of anti-biotics (injected) for her nasty little infection. Still eating, drinking, pooping ect. 

Plus its been like 30*C all week :/ way too hot. I think I'm just paranoid and the herd dynamic has changed lol. Its funny, they are accepting April as long as every now and then as they please they can ram her into a wall. I was surprised, it was Mione who rammed her into a wall this evening and Cissy half heartedly butted her in the face LOL.


ETA: Okay I'm just a little paranoid thats all. I went in to show mum how lack luster Cissy was and she up eating hay and evaded me at all costs when I tried to catch her to check her eyelids LOL. She needs deworming, but tis all good. I'll pick up safeguard tomorrow and go from there.


----------



## patandchickens (Jul 15, 2010)

Remember that if you have a very strong, rigid and totally-continuous 'top rail' (metal or wood) on the fencing, it takes a LOT of the stress off the posts. You can use the metal pipe normally used for chainlink on any other wire mesh fence too, on chainlink type posts (with the fittings to receive the top rail ends) or on wooden posts (holes or metal fittings to receive it). Then tension it REALLY WELL, screw the joints if necessary. And then having well-set or deep posts is MUCH less of an issue, because the pen becomes sort of a self-supporting structure. 

Mind you it is kind of more of a nuisance to install that way.

Pat, having spent all of last weekend installing about 80' of reused chainlink for the sheep's soon-to-be-new night pen, and not having enjoyed it much, but with digproofing and electric it is one SOLID fence


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 15, 2010)

Hahaha... Yeah it is not fun at all. I am going to be buying the wedgeloc pieces, they screw into the posts or on tposts lock in and will give you basically the same thing you're talking about. They're not terribly spendy either which is great.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Jul 16, 2010)

I like cattle panels for small pens (like Pat said), but I think if you were to make a larger pen I'd suggest the mesh.  Also look for regular 2X4 mesh (you can get it at feed stores or hardware stores around here) which is normally cheaper and comes in shorter lengths (like 50' or 100' vs. 330').  T-posts are great for this type of fence.    I'd definitely do a hot wire or two on the inside to keep them off of the fence.


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 16, 2010)

XD Well I got some of the 2x4 fencing for free. My brothers friends mum (friend of ours too) is taking down all her 2x4 fencing she had up for her goats and used for her horses to replace with just electric for the horses (its the only thing they actually respect) and she's offered me 120ft of it. More than enough to do my pen.


----------



## glenolam (Jul 16, 2010)

I LOVE FREE!


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 26, 2010)

Just throwing out an update on my goat pen woes lol. We finished cementing all the posts on the weekend and picked up the fence wire from our friend and this is what we did today...

The gateway, we already had the gate because my mum bought it for the dog run but we couldn't find brackets for it. Bought the post this morning.







And up the fenceline. We've decided to keep the pen in the original size (not doubling it) and use t-posts on the line that is on the side you can't see from the house. We'll then put t-posts in the valley area beyond this pen and fence in a small field for them there


----------



## glenolam (Jul 27, 2010)

Looks great!  I find that sometimes I have this picture in my mind of what I want, but as I get going it morphs into something completely different!


----------



## helmstead (Jul 27, 2010)

Under your gate there, the gap...I have a great way to handle that gap having lived in the mountains (or rather, foothills).

Use a treated 4x4 cut to length just shy of the width of your gate opening.  Dig out a level trench under the gate, and place the 4x4 in the trench.  Do not concrete it in, as it will eventually need replaced.  Back fill the dirt so you don't trip over the wood.  Voila, gap filled.


----------



## ksalvagno (Jul 27, 2010)

Looking good!


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks for the awesome idea helmstead. I have some large rocks (we live in rocky rawdon after all...) that I could use instead of wood  for longevity purposes of course. 

Here are some updated photos guys. I bet you were wondering what on earth I was going to do about the gap between the main fenceline and the picket fence weren't you? I went over a few ideas. First was rails, like a post and board fence. Next was pickets (mum's idea, and very feasible). Finally we settled on a stockade. I had some fence boards and 2x4s and an extra, 4ft PT post (was for a jump standard but I can't be bothered with that right now!). The 4ft post is really there for esthetics and for a place to put a solar fence topper. 

Sorry about the quality, these were taken with my phone..











The stockade is 4ft high and we have electric going on the inside top and bottom. The pen isn't quite finished yet, a couple more days and it'll be done  I just have to buy a new post pounder (ours has gone missing?) to put the tposts in and do some last minute removal of old posts from the old chicken run as well as clean up a bit and they can go in it.


----------



## glenolam (Jul 29, 2010)

Got to say - you are one driven person!  Everything looks great!

Love the new avatar, BTW!!


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 29, 2010)

ha i have to make things work around here. 

and thanks  notice the supermario tshirt?


----------



## glenolam (Jul 29, 2010)

I just watched the darn DVD for the umpteenth time with my 5 yr old son last night!


----------



## cmjust0 (Jul 29, 2010)

You've outdone yourself!

Or, should I say...you've 1up'd yourself.


----------



## lupinfarm (Jul 29, 2010)

now i just have to put some t-posts in, run the electric (this involves stealing the solar fencer from the bottom horse pasture, its not needed there ANYWAY). buy a muck tub for water. put up eavestrough for water. cut a goatie door in the wall


----------



## ksalvagno (Jul 29, 2010)

Looks great! I bet the goats will love to be out there.


----------

