# Need Advice - Bring City Raised Pyrenees to Goat Farm?



## BetterHensandGardens (Nov 11, 2011)

There was a 2 yr. old Great Pyrenees (raised from 8 weeks in the cit)y which was advertised on Craigslist as needing a new farm home, neutered with all shots, but obviously has no herd experience (he did spend his first 8 weeks with Nigerian Dwarf goats but that's it).  We have three Nigerian Dwarf does that have free run on four acres of wooded pasture during the day and will be freshening for the first time in the spring - so I volunteered to try to take him - hoping he could guard the goats and be happier in a farm environment. 

Do you think this is a good idea, and what do I need to do when introducing the dog and goats?  We have no prior experience with LGD's, but I would like to have one guarding the goats, particularly after they freshen in the spring.  We do have coyotes, etc. in the area and this seemed like an opportunity to provide a better situation for both the dog and goats.  However, I'm now a little unsure of how to proceed   Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated


----------



## redtailgal (Nov 11, 2011)

Well, I dont have any trainged LGD's.  But I have worked with and trained dogs for a while now.

Any "city" dog advertised as needing a "farm home" sends up red flags.  "Sweet dog needs farm home" is the equivalent to..we got this dog, it is out of control and runs and acts crazy and we can't control it so we want it to go to a farm where decent manners dont count".  Many people use the "needs a farm" line to pawn off a problem dog, or one that is lacking in training.


I may go and look, but I would be VERY cautious.


----------



## BetterHensandGardens (Nov 11, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Well, I dont have any trainged LGD's.  But I have worked with and trained dogs for a while now.
> 
> Any "city" dog advertised as needing a "farm home" sends up red flags.  "Sweet dog needs farm home" is the equivalent to..we got this dog, it is out of control and runs and acts crazy and we can't control it so we want it to go to a farm where decent manners dont count".  Many people use the "needs a farm" line to pawn off a problem dog, or one that is lacking in training.
> 
> ...


Yup, it does send up all kinds of red flags, makes me wonder if the dog is tearing the home apart.  However, I've been corresponding with the owner and proceeding slowly.  She wants to bring the dog out to see if the situation would work, and will have to bring him quite a distance - so it seems she is genuinely trying to find a good fit for the dog.   You suggest we go look, and then let her bring him out if that goes ok?


----------



## redtailgal (Nov 11, 2011)

If she is willing to bring the dog out, I'd go ahead and give it a look-see.

What are your hopes for this dog?

Do you want it to be a live with your goats kind of guardian?  Perhaps this dog would do that, but I doubt it.  You'd need the advice of more experience LGD'ers on that.  It would worry me though, as this dog did not get a puppyhood bond with a herd.

If you just want a pet, then definately go for it.


----------



## BetterHensandGardens (Nov 11, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> If she is willing to bring the dog out, I'd go ahead and give it a look-see.
> 
> What are your hopes for this dog?
> 
> ...


I do want a live with the goats kind of guardian, and don't want a pet (particularly not that big of a pet!).  That's one of the things I was wondering, at two years - would a Great Pyrenees that's been raised in the city have any inclination to bond with a herd of Nigerian Dwarf does?  In addition to the goats, we have chickens; and so do our neighbors - so I don't want a dog that would stray from the herd and be considered a threat to others livestock.


----------



## redtailgal (Nov 12, 2011)

Hmm, I"m prob not the best one to answer that, since I have never dealt with trained LGDs.

My best bet would be NO.  From what I know of dogs in general, I wouldnt trust most dogs that are that old and never been around livestock to just be around them, let alone guard them.

I'd have to pass on that situation.  I think it sounds like a huge gamble!  I think that I would have to start with a pup or already trained older dog.


----------



## BetterHensandGardens (Nov 12, 2011)

Can anyone with LGD experience weigh in on bringing a two year old city raised dog to a farm with goats/chickens?

How do you go about introducing the dog and goats, and how can you even see if it would work out?


----------



## watchdogps (Nov 13, 2011)

BetterHensandGardens said:
			
		

> Can anyone with LGD experience weigh in on bringing a two year old city raised dog to a farm with goats/chickens?
> 
> How do you go about introducing the dog and goats, and how can you even see if it would work out?


My biggest concern would be a fence. It doesn't sound like you have one. A few acres won't keep that dog home. I've had no problems introducing my adult anatolians to livestock, so that wouldn't worry me much.


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 13, 2011)

I think there is potential for it to work out, provided the dog hasn't been 'ruined'.  Unfortunately, there's potential for disaster, too.

If he's bonded to humans, he may well refuse to stay w/ the goats.

Some are more prone to chase chickens than others.  Edge could care less, Gus loves to chase them.  He's never hurt one, but I do my best to keep them away from him.

At 2 yrs old, the dog is just past the puppy phase.  What would worry me most is making sure when kids arrive that he knows NOT to 'play' w/ them.

And the fencing could be an issue.

Honestly, I think this dog may not be a good fit for you.  I would be leery of taking on a city raised LGD, and I've had several LGD over the years.

eta: Also, if your goats aren't used to a HUGE dog, they may run from it when you introduce.  That could induce the dog to chase (he thinks they're 'playing' w/ him) and if the does are early bred, I wouldn't want them being chased all over.
We recently brought home 2 Obs.  I put them in a pen the dogs are in and they went nuts, they were petrified of the dogs.  The dogs didn't try to chase them, but the goats would bolt every time they saw the dogs.  
Luckily, my dogs just looked at me like, "Mom!  What's up w/ these goats?  How can I guard them if they keep running from me?"


----------



## bucknercrestfarm (Nov 14, 2011)

:/ good luck! as a pyr breeder i cant stress enough how a city life is no home for a great pyrenees in less your a jogger and dont mind "running" your dog for hours 2 a day and your comunity dosent mind the late night barking!!!!! this dog probablt has penned up energy and once you turn them on pasture there going to take off! its not imposible its just going to take time and alot of counting to ten. if you take on this dog get in contact with a pyr club for sagestions on training and dont leave the dog with your lifestock. im training one right now who has been in a kennel day and night for all her two years only got people contact once a day for feeding time and if i hadnt been raising them for as long i would have to get a hold of a pyr resue. she so far has killed a pigglet and 2 ducks. and a 90 pound dog jumping all over you is nooo fun shes soo rude! but she was in the city the family bought her because she looked like the puppy on snow buddy but they didnt know she would get that big and all the hair!


----------



## BetterHensandGardens (Nov 14, 2011)

watchdogps said:
			
		

> BetterHensandGardens said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually, we do have a fence - but it's only 4 feet high, and has electric strands on the top and bottom (on the outside).  Would that hold a Great Pyr if it wanted out?  And how likely is it that it will want to roam - this is a neutered male.


----------



## BetterHensandGardens (Nov 14, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I think there is potential for it to work out, provided the dog hasn't been 'ruined'.  Unfortunately, there's potential for disaster, too.
> 
> If he's bonded to humans, he may well refuse to stay w/ the goats.
> 
> ...


I'm certainly leery of taking on a city raised LGD; and I'm pretty sure the goat girls are going to be petrified.  When we took them to be bred, they saw their first cat (all 10 lbs. of her) and were visibly shaking.  I can only imagine what will happen when they see this dog for the first time.  We have an empty horse stall next to the stall the goats are in, and they both open onto the fenced pasture.  So, I was wondering if I could put the dog in the other stall, let the goats out and have them stare at him for awhile through the gate, and then switch until they got used to each other while still being separated. 

How do non-city raised LGD's know not to "play" with kids when they arrive?  Hadn't even thought of that one yet :/

How long would it take to determine whether he's so bonded to humans that he won't stay with the goats?


----------



## watchdogps (Nov 14, 2011)

BetterHensandGardens said:
			
		

> watchdogps said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh good! It really depends on the dog, but that is a good set up. Most don't like electric. Pyrs aren't generally going to clear a fence, they usually climb, but hopefully the strands will stop that if he tries.


----------



## watchdogps (Nov 14, 2011)

You have the right idea about getting BOTH parties used to each other. A lot of people forget the livestock end of it, and the animals panic and set the dog into chase mode and they think the dog is bad. My suggestion is the following:
Get the animals used to each other while separated first. Do things to associate good stuff with each other, like feed them progressively closer to the other (esp the goats to get them to go close to him)
Spend some time with the dog one on one. Make friends with him, build a relationship. Lgd breeds take a while, a few weeks, to transfer their affections, so be patient. Don't do "I'm the boss" type stuff, just do "hey, we are buddies" but also do some asking him to do little things like sit and come when called with a motivational approach not militant. If you do not build 
this relationship before introducing him to the goats, he will have no reason to look to you for input or listen to you if you tell him he is not behaving appropriately.
Don't move too fast. Do not leave him unsupervised with the girls until ypu have had a few weeks of perfect behavior from him. 
If he seems to want to come in the house, don't be too hard on him, he's just confused. Make his new accomodations appealing to him. A cushy bed, good chewies, etc. Don't worry, he'll be sleeping in dirt soon, but for now he might need a little easing into the less pampered life.


----------



## BetterHensandGardens (Nov 15, 2011)

watchdogps said:
			
		

> You have the right idea about getting BOTH parties used to each other. A lot of people forget the livestock end of it, and the animals panic and set the dog into chase mode and they think the dog is bad. My suggestion is the following:
> Get the animals used to each other while separated first. Do things to associate good stuff with each other, like feed them progressively closer to the other (esp the goats to get them to go close to him)
> Spend some time with the dog one on one. Make friends with him, build a relationship. Lgd breeds take a while, a few weeks, to transfer their affections, so be patient. Don't do "I'm the boss" type stuff, just do "hey, we are buddies" but also do some asking him to do little things like sit and come when called with a motivational approach not militant. If you do not build
> this relationship before introducing him to the goats, he will have no reason to look to you for input or listen to you if you tell him he is not behaving appropriately.
> ...


Thanks for all the good advice, we'll be putting it into practice here shortly.  Talked to the current owner today, and they will be bringing him this Friday.  Never know of course how it will turn out..............they did say that if things weren't working they'd take him back.


----------



## watchdogps (Nov 15, 2011)

Keep us posted!


----------

