# How long after antibiotics to wait to butcher?



## Nicki

Ok,

I have a question we have a sick heifer she is 3 months old and has not been eating has been to the vet several times has been tubed, and had a round of antibiotics she is still running no fever she just does not eat she sips water and is starting to get a little bloated.  We are now at the point that surgery is the only option which is not a option we are willing to go.  If she does not make it I am wondering what other peoples opinions are on eating beef that was treated with antibiotics?  If the calf does not make it we do plan on having a necropsy done to find out what went wrong currently we are leaning towards some sort of blockage of some sort maybe she ate something she shouldnt have not sure.  If it ended up being some disease or something I would not consider eating it.  I hate to let this meat just go to waste oviously it is not the wonderful mature grass fed beef we normally aim for but I find it hard to believe that it is not usable at all.  After all we are treated with antibiotics as well.

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated Thanks Nicki


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## goodhors

I think if you get a necropsy done, the beef would be spoiled for eating.  

How much does calf weigh?  At three months, she can't be very big, hasn't gained much and you STILL do not know why she is sick.  Could be a physical problem or a germ problem.  I would not want to eat any animal that is sick and has no specific cause.  Even cooked, you could get some germs eating the meat. 

Ask the Vet what the waiting time is on whatever antibiotic is you are using.  Bottle may have a time already on it, if you read the small print.  All my cattle meds have a wait time printed on the bottle or box.

I think if you add up costs, price for slaughter, price per pound for meat processing, weight of animal left when organs and bone are gone, there is not enough animal to really bother with for the freezer.  Could end up costing you a lot in EXPENSES per pound for the meat on such a young animal.

Might be easier to get her necropsied, then pay the disposal fee where she was taken.  No holes to dig at home. 

She really does not sound like a good food product with the history you have given.


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## Nicki

This calf weighs 300-400 pounds there is no cost for butchering as we would just do it  ourselves if we decide not to use the meat we will still dispose of the body ourselves it may sound horrible we generally always have a hole dug just incase someone unexpectedly dies we live in a area where ground is frozen solid all winter so it is best to plan ahead.  I always hate the thought of ending up having the rendering plant guy pick up anything.

I dont think after the necropsy there would be anything different with the meat than say a deer that was killed in the forest and than brought back to town they are generally only looking at the organs/intestines atleast I am assuming this is what is done this is the first cow we have ever had get sick on us.


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## herfrds

Never eat a sick animal. Especially since you have no idea of what is wrong with her.
Depends upon what antibotics the vet used. Each one has a different withdrawl time.

Oh Nicki only sick animals are treated with antibotics in feedlots. I know a large number of people who would be pretty upset reading what you said. All cattle ranchers and some also run feedlots.


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## Nicki

Thanks for the info we will most likley find out on Monday what went wrong unless some miracle happens today.

I am sorry to upset anyone but every article I have read this week in regards to animals and antibiotics seems to be about feedlots and the regular use of antibiotics for both increased growth to prevent sickness and to cure sickness.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/health/policy/29fda.html

http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/09/eveningnews/main6191530.shtml

I would love to find one that says that all meat produced goes through the recommended withdrawl period for antibiotics but so far nothing.


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## Calliopia

If you feed a medicated feed then you are constantly treating with antibiotics. It is very easy to look online and find out the withdrawal time for your specific antibiotic you are using.  I've seen slaughter holds range from a week to 60 days to "you can never eat this animal".  

 The other question is... If all she's doing is drinking water (which will keep an animal alive for maybe two weeks) are you going to keep her alive in this state so that she is 'more useful'.   1) it seems cruel  2) you won't have much of a carcass weight. 


 People eat sick animals all the time. Downer cattle, sheep goats etc have and will continue to be slaughtered.  It happens.  

 The reason that a necropsy effects the meat is that you give them the whole carcass and the guts, etc all stay inside the body.   It is given a medical dissection not a clean butchering and you have no control over contamination.   Not saying it wouldn't be sterile... but I wouldn't count on it. Ever. 

 If during YOUR butchering process you want a vet on hand to poke around, that is different, but I would not recommend eating a carcass returned after necropsy.  

If you decide to the current withdrawal is acceptable, put her down and either butcher w/a vet on hand and stick her in the freezer or get a necropsy and sell her on craigslist as  dog food for people doing the raw meat thing. 

 Just my .02.    Good luck though. The transition from caretaker to butcher is not a fun one.  Good for you for wanting some use to come out of it.


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## Nicki

Thanks I was thinking about the dog food idea we do not plan to let her suffer but the vet did say that sometimes things do turn around and to give it until Monday just incase.  I am fairly new to cows and only have horses to compare to in a horse when they get colic once it goes bad they usually dont last more than a day or two.  

I will probably take her to the vet in the morning for one last check just incase she is still alert and moving around and just not the usual signs I am used to for a animal that is at deaths door.  I guess cows are just harder to read or tougher than the horses we baby so much.  I know I would feel horrible to kill her and have a necropsy to find out we just did not wait long enough and another day or two she might have turned around.  

This is a new thing for us we raise our cows for breeding stock mainly and some milk when I get a chance to actually milk on a regular basis.


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## herfrds

Nicki look at your sources. I wouldn't believe anything CBS or the NYTimes say.
Too many people take what they say and think it is the truth, too many times it is fabricated to look good and scare people. Seen it before.

Go to cattletoday.com/forum or go to ranchers.net


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## WildRoseBeef

herfrds said:
			
		

> Oh Nicki only sick animals are treated with antibotics in feedlots. I know a large number of people who would be pretty upset reading what you said. All cattle ranchers and some also run feedlots.


Actually, Nicki is right.  Antibiotics are fed to feedlot animals both as treatment for sickness, particularly for Acidosis, and as a preventative for finisher animals to be prevented from getting sick from this metabolic disease, and as a added bonus to help increase weight gain. Reason for this is that cattle are being fed a 90% grain diet, which is unnatural for them and easily makes the pH in their rumen get messed up, hence the onset of Acidosis. I know the folks on CattleToday and Ranchers.net would agree, as I've seen it discussed on there lots as well. Market pigs are fed antibiotics for the same reasons as finisher cattle.  But note this is ONLY FOR FEEDLOTS, not for any other type of operation.  

I've no idea how long this heifer has been sick for, or how long she's been off feed. In cows the rumen stops functioning after 4 days if they don't eat for that long.  The rumen is obviously fully functional at this age, and if she's been off feed for four days, she's already on Death's doorstep.  Water isn't enough, and she's probably not getting enough water anyway either.   And if she's been off feed for a few days, she'd be lighter than 300-400 lbs.  A 3 month old 3- or 4-wt calf would be filled out nicely.  Calves at that age that haven't been eating for a while would have lost a lot of weight, resulting in not enough meat to get off of them.  But since we have no idea how long this heifer has been sick, how long she's been off feed, etc., we can't say when she's going to go.  And what about other symptoms?  Is she lethargic, listless, kicking at her belly, got diarrhea, dull look in her eyes, etc.?? All these other symptoms are indicators of what may be wrong with her.

Withdrawal times should be followed, no exceptions.  This isn't about whether feedlots follow withdrawal times or not, in comparison with your operation, as we are comparing apples to oranges here.  *But only treat if you know what the cause is.*  And if she dies before the withdrawal times are through, don't eat the meat.  You'll taste the antibiotics in it no matter if you get a necropsy done on her or not.  

When we had steers every year we'd have one or two die on us in one year...odd times we'd have none, which is lucky.  But I remember one steer that went down with viral pnuemonia so bad we had to tube him with glycol propylene to get him to eat again.  He perked up, then crashed again.  We kept treatments with hime: Oxyvet LA200, Nuflor, and tubing with that glycol stuff, but after a week we lost him.  He stunk so bad of antibiotics you didn't need to open him up to smell it.  We would never eat a steer like that, because 1) it's disgusting, and 2) it's just stupid.  Other steers we lost from sickness we never ate.  Only ones we ate were : 1st had a gut blockage, and 2nd broke his leg.  The 2nd one had oxyvet but wasn't killed until the withdrawal time was past done.   He was just as good tasting as the 1st.

Meat from an animal that has infection should not be eaten, be it pnuemonia, injury, or any other illness.  Cows that have johnes disease can be eaten, as it is just the intestines that are affected.  Even animals that have Foot and Mouth can be eaten, as the meat doesn't affect human health.  The steer we ate (the 1st) just had a gut injury or blockage or something, and the meat wasn't affected.  But DO NOT eat the meat of an animal you have no idea what sickness it has.  It's just common sense.


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