# HELP...w/ graphic / gross pic...beware



## Roll farms (Aug 15, 2009)

I got a call from a friend w/ a sick goat last week, she described symptoms that *sounded* like bloat at the time...swollen belly, off feed, and said he'd gotten into the hog's feed pan, which had cauliflower in it.
I suggested a few things, and she said he did improve.

She called again on Thurs. night, said he was sick again, and his "butt was all swollen / pushed out"...sounded like a prolapse to me, so I told her to call her vet ASAP the next morning.

I called today to check and she says the vet thinks it's CL, which sounds like a wayyy off diagnosis to me for a swollen butt.

I just went by there to take a look / offer moral support, and folks, I've been raising goats for 15 years and I've NEVER seen anything like this.







The only other suggestion he had was a twisted intestine...but still...how would that spread all the way out to the tail web and make IT double it's normal size???
The flesh on his entire rump feels bloated / swollen, on both sides of his tail as well.  He's got a low-grade temp but nothing else obvious.
You know how an ankle looks / feels when it's sprained?  The flesh feels tight and bloated?  From his withers back he feels like that....but his belly isn't bloated.  
He's 6 mos old, of good size / condition, etc...Somewhat lethargic and puny acting now.
He hasn't pooped in at least 2 days (they said) but, he's also not the least bit interested in food / water, either.
He's leaking blood from his rectum and some clear fluid.

I think, by how he was acting, he's too far gone to help but I would like to know if any of you have seen a tail look like this.
The vet has him on antibiotics and banamine for pain / swelling.

Thoughts?


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## trestlecreek (Aug 15, 2009)

Well, could be a number of things!! 
Sounds like he is trying to pass something for sure. Maybe "hardware"?
Also, could have gotten strung back there which is causing the edema?
More than likely though, with the blood he is trying to pass something. They need the vet to do some x-rays. Not much one can do safely out in the barn....


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## Roll farms (Aug 15, 2009)

The vet sent the goat home w/ the meds and said "See how he does and call me on Monday."
I agree he needs xrays...but I'm afraid it may be too late, now.


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## onedozenphyllises (Aug 15, 2009)

Oh dear...I wish I had something to offer.  I've got nothing, except that I hope this resolves!


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## bheila (Aug 16, 2009)

HOLY MOLY.....that poor boys behind!!  Why would the vet think CL there?   Did the vet try draining any fluid out to see if or what would come out?


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## freemotion (Aug 16, 2009)

Sounds really, really bad....so sorry......


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## cmjust0 (Aug 17, 2009)

Snakebite?


...no clue...


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## trestlecreek (Aug 17, 2009)

Sounds like the vet may have neglected this guy a bit!! She definitely needs to call the vet back if he is still hanging on.
Hopefully he will be okay.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 17, 2009)

Did the goat get any injections between then and now?  If so...could we be looking at a really weird sort of anaphylaxis??  Like, instead of falling over dead, maybe he just swelled up like a bullfrog...as some people do when they eat shellfish, for instance..

If he were mine, I'd get him off Banamine.  It's too hard on the GI, and he's clearly already got some GI issues..

My gut tells me this is an immune-system reaction to something environmental..  If I'm right, Dexamethasone should help in two different ways:  One, it brings down inflammation...Two, it knocks down the immune system.  So long as he's on antibiotic at the same time, it should be OK.

I'd *definitely* have this goat on Dexamethasone.

ETA...and I'd get a different vet.  Caseous Lymphadenitis?  Are you kidding me?  Goat 101 says that's not CL...  :/


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## Roll farms (Aug 17, 2009)

He died this morning before she could get him back to the vet....

I....am not even going to venture a guess at this point, but I totally disagreed w/ the CL diagnosis, as well.  A blockage of some sort, maybe...but by a CL abscess?  Nooooo

cmjustO, the goat had no swelling anywhere else, and was eating /drinking and acting fine 2 weeks ago.  He just started acting "funny" and going off feed, then stopped eating at all, then swelled up and died about 4 days later.
No injections or recent medications of any kind.

RIP Peanut.


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## trestlecreek (Aug 17, 2009)

RIP little boy.


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## 2468herdsrgr8 (Aug 17, 2009)




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## bheila (Aug 17, 2009)

Awwww


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## cmjust0 (Aug 18, 2009)

Well, that sucks..  I hate to hear that.

Is the owner going to send the goat off to have any kind of diagnostics run or try to determine the cause of death?  I started thinking about blackleg, or malignant edema...clostridials which aren't covered by the regular CD/T.  

More questions than answers, I guess..

Anyway...I really hate to hear that he didn't make it.


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## lilhill (Aug 18, 2009)

So sorry it ended this way.  If it were me, I'd want to know what happened.


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## Beekissed (Aug 18, 2009)

I'm wondering if he just didn't have an obstruction from something he ate.  The vet could have at least done a gentle digital exam to see if it were a low obstruction that could have been removed.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 18, 2009)

I think I'm a little confused..



			
				Roll farms said:
			
		

> You know how an ankle looks / feels when it's sprained?  The *flesh feels tight and bloated?  From his withers back *he feels like that





			
				Roll farms said:
			
		

> cmjustO, the goat had *no swelling anywhere else*, and was eating /drinking and acting fine 2 weeks ago.  He just started acting "funny" and going off feed, then stopped eating at all, *then swelled up* and died about 4 days later.


So...he did, or did _not_ have swelling beyond what we saw of the tailweb in the picture?

If the swelling was localized to the rectal area, then some kind of an impaction or twisted gut might make some sense...but I thought he was swollen almost all over, which is why I was thinking blackleg or malignant edema -- especially given that he also had a low-grade fever.


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## Roll farms (Aug 18, 2009)

I meant he wasn't swollen anywhere BUT the butt end....from the withers back FELT to the touch like how his tail LOOKED.  In the pic, you couldn't see that his rump area (muscle) was swollen as well, so I was trying to get it across that from the withers back he was swollen just like his tail, but not anywhere else.   
Is that clear as mud?
From his belly to the nose, he WAS NOT SWOLLEN.
Is that better?  

My friend buried him the night he died b/c they didn't have the money for a necropsy, with 3 kids to sign up for school the book fees wiped them out.

They have a doeling of the same age, from the same breeder, who is fine...also cows, pigs, dogs, cats, and chickens living nearby.  
Nothing else is sick.
They've been vaccinated w/ CDT and 7 way (that covers blackleg).

I spoke to my vet (a great goat vet) at length about it today, she's fairly sure a blockage in his lower intestines could have caused the edema in his back end, pressure from the intestines pushing out / infection setting in, etc.  Also, the temp could have been from the resulting infection.
Without having a post done, there just isn't a way to know for sure, but she said she's never heard of anything 'organic' (disease) causing those types of symptoms.

I wish I'd have went and seen him sooner, and really pushed her to use my vet instead of just going along when she said on the phone that she'd use one near her.
(We live about 40 mi. apart...)

I realllllly wish I hadn't been the one to talk her into getting goats in the first place.  She's heartbroken and blaming herself...


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## trestlecreek (Aug 19, 2009)

Well, unfortunately these things happen. In her case, it sounds like a strange fluke. Is it possible that they goat may have ate some hardware? 
Maybe she will take a better look around for a better vet? Or one that will take payments?


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