# Trying to find the best sheep breed/mix



## AbbeyRoad (Jul 16, 2013)

Hi All,

My husband and I are closing on our first house next week.  It is in the Richmond, VA area with 4.3 acres.   It has 3 stalls and a grass pasture of approx 1.5 acres.  It could be expanded to maybe 2 and some change.  Currently there is only permanent wood fencing along the short side closest to the house/road.  The rest is electrical.  

Thinking maybe 3 sheep to start?  Maybe up to 5?  I'm cool with either wethers or ewes.  No rams.  

I am a vet tech with farm animal patient experience.  We have gone to the MD sheep and Wool fest for 3 years straight.  Husband was in 4H as a kid.  But no real "farming" experience lately.  He is really into homesteading and has quite the fruit tree and veggie plans for the non animal areas.  Planning on runner ducks for eggs as well.

I used to work with what i was told were Scottish Blackface sheep in my teenager years at the local farm shelter.  They were perfect!  That is what I have always wanted since.  But the ewes I worked with didn't have horns.  

Ideal Sheep requirements.

-Wool - I want wool sheep.  These will be pet/wool producers/lawn mowers.  I have started needle felting small creatures and mobiles for gifts.  I could potentially learn to make yarn too.  But I am not a big sewer/knitter (yet).  Ideally like a wool I could dye.  But love black faced or one solid black sheep mixed with other lighter sheep. Don't want to deal with lambs, unless they are to keep for more wool.  

- Polled- Husband is pretty against horned sheep and I don't want to debud them.  He loves the look of them but doesn't want to actually deal with them.  But he started to sway on the idea because I keep coming back to the Scottish BlackFace sheep.  So in a perfect world our sheep will not have horns.  I'm ok with sexually dimorphic horns, then we would just have ewes.

- Size  - again husband wants smaller/medium sized sheep.  He is still not 100% on animals that might out weigh him.  

- wool on face/legs-  I would like clean legs and face.  I have seen and helped with shearing and holding, but rather not have to deal with wooly face/eyes.

- Ears- I don't like the straight up ears of cheviots  or border leicester. I prefer to the side or slightly droopy.

Not sure if there is one breed (or a certain usual mixbreed) that fits all that.  

Our possible list is:
Gotlands - concerned the wool is too grey for dying.
Scottish Blackface- horns but i hear there are mules/crossbreeds that are hornless but haven't actually seen anyone with them.  
Tunis- not white or black   hard time wrapping my head around red faced.

My other idea is to just see what the shelters/CL  in the area have that fit my small flock needs.

Any breed that I am not thinking of?  

Does our set up sound like it can handle 3-5 non breeding ewes?    I need to do more figuring out about rotating smaller pastures and growing our own hay.  we could leave them out in the pasture all the time with a run in, or bring them in at night into the stalls.  

Thanks!


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## SheepGirl (Jul 16, 2013)

Three sheep are fine together. But you will want more!   I would go with ewes just in case you do decide you want to breed in the future...then you won't be stuck with unproductive pet wethers taking up space that you could keep ewes/lambs in.

As for keeping sheep for wool, there are different types of wool: medium, long, and fine. Every sheep (except for hair sheep) have one of these types of wool. Most meat sheep have medium grade wool. Medium wool sheep shear light, short stapled fleeces. Medium wool isn't really useful for much, except for stuffing stuffed animals, felting, etc. Finewool sheep also shear a light, short stapled fleece, but their wool is MUCH more valuable than medium wool. This is because the fiber diameter is smaller (think of a finewool sheep as someone with thin hair and a medium wool sheep as someone with thick hair) and there is usually more crimp. Fine wool is used to create garments that are worn next to the skin. And then there is also long wool. Long wool sheep shear heavy, long-stapled fleeces. It is good for spinning, making carpets, etc.

Based on what you like to do (needle felting), I would go with a medium wool sheep. As you learn other fiber arts, you can always add different breeds to fit your needs (like maybe a long wool breed if you take up spinning). However, most black faced medium wool breeds (Suffolk, Hampshire, etc) have _really_ poor quality wool. Like, worse than other medium wools. So I would go with maybe a white faced medium wool and then have one natural colored version of it.

Pretty much all the white faced medium wool sheep I can think of are naturally polled. (Actually almost all sheep breeds are naturally horned.)

Unfortunately even the 'miniature' Babydoll Southdown still weighs in at 130+ lbs for ewes, about 170+ lbs for rams. The average ewe in this country is about 150-170 lbs. However, I am a 130 lb female and I can easily handle & control my 200 lb ewe. It is my 120 lb ram I have the most trouble controlling! (He would be 160+ lbs but he has lost a lot of weight since April...he doesn't do good on a grass hay diet, even though he's perfectly fine on winter grass ). I would advise you to get lambs to start with and halter train them. Like completely halter break them. I have one ewe who walks on the halter and keeps up with me, but she still pitches a fit. Her mother, on the other hand, is completely halter broke. She willingly goes wherever I take her on the halter (sometimes she will stop and pause if a place looks a little sketchy, like under the pine trees outside their field, lol) and she never fights me. She's the one that weighs 200 lbs.

I would suggest Southdowns, but you don't like wool on the face/legs. Is it just aesthetics or do you think it is harder to shear them? Personally I like the look of clean faces/legs. The sheep look more regal & 'pretty.' The closed face sheep just look cute lol. I have both open and closed faced/legged sheep. I do not have any closed face sheep that have problems with wool blindness. And during the winter they are extra warm with their wooly faces and legs compared to my open faced ewe.

See what I mean?

Closed face = cute






Open face = pretty





So based on my recommendations (a whitefaced medium wool breed), I would recommend:

- Finnsheep (120-160 lbs)
- Dorset (150-200 lbs)
- Corriedale (150-200 lbs)
- Montadale (160-180 lbs)


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## BrownSheep (Jul 16, 2013)

People on here tend to love the Jacobs and Romneys for hobby wool growers. Unfortunately, the Jacobs have horns BUT they are awfully unique! Plus they are spotted and small!. 

I might also suggest Shetland or Icelandics...Hilariously tiny, pretty good wool from what I understand, and multiple colors and patterns..

I personally raise dorsets and rambouillets. Not tiny sheep any way you look at them but wonderful wool. I don't have a lot of exprience with the smaller breeds, so it is taking me a bit to think about what breeds are small.

If you're really just after wool and pasture clearing I would say wethers would be a good choice. They are generally friendlier than ewes. I would also suggest bottle babies. It takes some extra effort in the beginning but you end up wih sheep that are like dogs.

ETA after seeing SheepGirls suggestion of finnsheep I had to add they are on my wish list! They have vast amounts of lambs (quints arent unheard of).They also have colors( all)  and patterns( spotted, badger face ,ect)


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## purplequeenvt (Jul 17, 2013)

I suspect that when you talk about the straight up-right ears of the Border Leicester that you are probably thinking of the UK Leicesters. US Leicesters do not have the same type of ears. They are smaller and not quite as up-right.

I have to put my little plug in for the BLs. 

My family started out with a couple Romneys and then my mom and a couple friends bought a group of bred Border Leicesters ewes from a well known breeder that was selling most of her sheep. At first I hated them. The ears, the roman nose. I thought they were ugly. I quickly changed my mind. I LOVE the BLs now and would take them over any other breed. 

They tend to be very personable and easy to handle. Not all of them, but they have always been so much easier than the Romneys. We have never had a mean ram and several of our breeding rams have been bottle babies.

They look lovely out in a field. They don't seem to get that dumpy run-down look from being out in the dirt, rain, and sun that a lot of the other breeds get. In fact, when we are getting ready for a show, we hope that it rains! The rain helps their fleece look better.

The fleece is perfect for needle felting and spinning. It is a long wool (coarse). At least in my area, handspinners and needle felters love the fleece because it has so much shine (luster) to it and it has lovely curls.

I too prefer the clean face and legs. So much easier to shear! Border Leicesters have no wool on their head or legs.

I know you said that you didn't like the BLs, but except for the ears, they would be a good choice for you. Good fleece for what you want to do. Naturally polled, both rams and ewes. They are either black or white. Generally easy to handle, with curious, friendly personalities. If you ever bred them and had extra ram lambs, the meat is excellent and mild. We ate a 7 year old ewe recently and you couldn't tell she was that old.

A fall ewe lamb





Same lamb as above, but not cleaned up for show.





Yearling ram





Jazmin a 3 year old ewe. You can see the shine in her fleece.





That being said, if you still are not interested in BLs.......

Shetlands are great (I have some). They are little and cute. The fleece is different from your average sheep, but nice. They come in many colors and patterns. They can be very wild, but generally once tamed (a little food bribery and some chest scratches) they are calmer then a lot of other sheep. You must have secure fences for these sheep! They can and they will find any hole or gap.

Young Shetland ewe lambs





Stay away from the commercial type meat breeds like the Suffolk and Hampshire. They are huge sheep and won't have the wool quality you are looking for. I wouldn't go with the Tunis either. Any of the sheep used almost exclusively for meat are going to have poor fleece quality. This is because no one put any emphasis on the wool, it was all about the meat.

Gotlands are very rare (read: expensive, hard to find). Breeders are doing an up-breeding program in order to establish the breed in North America. They are using breeds like the Border Leicester to "breed up" to an almost full-blood Gotland.

Scottish Blackface sheep will have very coarse wool. I don't know much about them other then that. Someone on here has them and could give you more information.


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## AbbeyRoad (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks for all the detailed posts and suggestions.

I have a feeling my "ideal" sheep look only lives in my head 

To answer some questions:

I do prefer the open face for looks but more so because of being a vet tech, i just look at them and think wool blindness, lots of nasty areas for infection and harder to shear.  Rather keep it simple.  I don't get cats/dogs with smushed faces for similar reason 

I did like the size and wool  of the BL at the MD Sheep and Wool.  I even took a pic of this guy (BFL I'm assuming?) 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I think as long as the ears are super straight up, I can deal.  The straight up ears make them look like they are shocked by something going on.  Maybe I can get the poor ear stock  I like the second picture posted of purplequeenvt's lamb.  those are perfectly fine ears. 

I will look into the list SheepGirl posted.

Thanks!  The research part of this is helping deal with the wait to get moved and settled.  Then we can hit the ground running!


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## purplequeenvt (Jul 17, 2013)

That one looks like a Border Leicester. The Blue Faced Leicesters have a finer fleece and a sparse/bald look to their face.

This is a UK BL. Totally different from the US variety. They were bred to have the upright ears to get attention at the auctions.


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## norseofcourse (Jul 17, 2013)

I'm totally biased because I have some    , but Icelandics would be worth checking into.  They match everything on your list.  Also they are naturally short-tailed so their tails don't need docked, and they shed in the spring (although I plan to shear mine in the fall, since they grow over an inch of wool a month).  Their wool is also supposed to be really good for felting, although I haven't personally tried that yet.

They come in lots of colors, and either polled or horned.  Mine have been quite easy keepers so far, and food and just hanging out with them has got them fairly friendly.


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## BrownSheep (Jul 17, 2013)

norseofcourse said:
			
		

> I'm totally biased because I have some    , but Icelandics would be worth checking into.  They match everything on your list.  Also they are naturally short-tailed so their tails don't need docked, and they shed in the spring (although I plan to shear mine in the fall, since they grow over an inch of wool a month).  Their wool is also supposed to be really good for felting, although I haven't personally tried that yet.
> 
> They come in lots of colors, and either polled or horned.  Mine have been quite easy keepers so far, and food and just hanging out with them has got them fairly friendly.


Also if you do end up butchering any there's a good  market for Icelandic sheepskin rugs.


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## BHOBCFarms (Jul 19, 2013)

Shetlands might be good for you , and handspinners love thier wool, its of excellent quality and comes in many colors.  

I also may be biased, but I love my* Mini Cheviots.*  They are polled, very small (one of my ewes is only 19 inches tall at the shoulder!)  Generally they range between 18 and 24 inches tall, though none of mine are as tall as 24 inches.  I think my ram might weigh about 100 pounds, but my ewes are much smaller, and I can lift them myself.  I am a not strong woman.  They are good mothers, easy lambing, good wool, gentle temperaments, and can come in black, white, black dillute and paint (spotted).  The down side is they can be hard to find, Shetlands seem more common.  Black Welsh Mountain sheep are also small, but they are also rare and hard to find, and the rams have horns.

Mini Cheviot:


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## AbbeyRoad (Aug 4, 2013)

Thanks everyone!  

We are starting to settle into the new house and are looking at getting ready for animals next.  I have some emails out to local(ish) shepherds.  I found a border leicester flock as well as a border leicester/gotland mix flock.  So we will see what works out.

Now on to post about what we inherited with the house and what we need to do to make it sheep ready.  It was originally for horses.  I will post in the generic fencing forum.

Thanks again!  And I am sure I will be back with a million questions! 

-Abbey


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## Bridgemoof (Aug 4, 2013)

I just have to chime in here, because I am a "woolie" person and I needle felt and I have a wide variety of sheep! My recommendation would be Finn sheep. Nice open face, clean wool breed on the smaller side, their wool is great for spinning and really good for needle felting. I have some white ones and some brown. I really like their wool, it's one of my favorites. I also have Shetland, Jacob, Cormo, and Tunis, an Icelandic, a Corriedale/Leicester and a Border Leicester. But the Finn have my favorite wool for felting. The Border Leicester is not my favorite for spinning or felting. 

Good luck with the house and the fencing and the sheep!  I'm in VA too, but a few hours north of you. If I can be of any help, let me know!


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