# Can a doe with split teats usually nurse kids ok?



## RareBreedFancier (Oct 9, 2011)

Hi all, 

I was looking at my ladies recently admiring their growing udders and one looks good, look at the other and think 'Oh no, what's going on there?' Catch her for a good look and she has split teats.  I didn't look at them before I bought them because they were so wild and the breeder told me he'd pick me out two with good teats because he knew I wanted to milk them. :/

Now I know that she has them I've been keeping an eye on their development and I'm wondering if she's likely to be able to nurse or if I'm likely to be hand raising the kid/s she's expecting? The two teats start together then split and point out at roughly 45 degree angle. They are pretty small, both combined would be about the size of the other does teats. The other doe has one on each side like I'd expect and look a good size so far. 

I know pics would help but she's pretty wild still and I don't think I can hold her and take them. I'm hoping DH will help but they are terrified of him so not sure how that's going to go. 

I have a bottles and teats handy from when I raised my boys but I had planed on letting the does raise their first kids. I'll also need to make sure I'm around if she's unlikely to be able to nurse as I want the babies to get colostrum. I'm planning on being at the birth but with an unknown breeding date I'm relying on signs to guess when they will be kidding.


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## Royd Wood (Oct 10, 2011)

Thats a bummer Rare Breed - no goats here but had a sheep with messed up teats and she fed twin lambs no probs - good luck


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## kstaven (Oct 10, 2011)

What you refer to is also called "fish teats" because the two teats and angle resembles a fish tail.  Kids can still nurse off that side if the teats are big enough. hand milking can be a real pain in the butt, as one teat always seems to point over the edge of the bucket.

Personally I would not be breeding a fish teated goat. It is recessive and spreading that trait through a persons herd can come back to bite you or another a couple of generations down the road.


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## Royd Wood (Oct 10, 2011)

kstaven said:
			
		

> Personally I would not be breeding a fish teated goat. It is recessive and spreading that trait through a persons herd can come back to bite you or another a couple of generations down the road.


Spot on here Kstaven - my ewe went for meat as did her two ram lambs


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 10, 2011)

kstaven said:
			
		

> What you refer to is also called "fish teats" because the two teats and angle resembles a fish tail.  Kids can still nurse off that side if the teats are big enough. hand milking can be a real pain in the butt, as one teat always seems to point over the edge of the bucket.
> 
> Personally I would not be breeding a fish teated goat. It is recessive and spreading that trait through a persons herd can come back to bite you or another a couple of generations down the road.


Oh trust me, I don't want her kids in my herd. I bought these does to milk and intended to retain all doe kids to increase my herd. Now I'm hoping she has bucklings for the freezer. I planned to breed them to a dairy buck to produce better milkers but this is not a trait I want passed on. 

Now I have to decide what to do with her. I could take her back where she came from but the two does are strongly bonded. Maybe when the other doe kids she might be happy with her kids or with the wether for company. Otherwise if she stays I'll only breed her to the Boer buck for meat kids. Provided her kids can nurse of course, I sure hope they can 'cause I don't want to bottle raise kids I plan to put in the freezer. 

Edit: If it's recessive I wonder if the other doe will throw bad teats too? Guess I'll be carefully inspecting her offspring. Their breeder breeds for meat so he's not so fussy about teats. If she does produce something other than the standard one on each side would I be best to return both of them? I guess so as she'd have to carry the trait to pass it on? I know she's bred to a pure Boer buck but I didn't see him so I have no idea what he'll pass on. *sigh* I wish DH had just let me spend the money and buy nice dairy does to start with.


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## kstaven (Oct 10, 2011)

When it comes to goats it's the boer side you need to watch closer than the dairy side for this problem. At least that is what we have experienced.


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 10, 2011)

Oh yes, I know it's the Boers that have all kinds of 'interesting' teat configurations. I just figure it would be a bad idea to breed a doe with bad teats to a dairy buck and keep her daughters because I don't want those teats popping up again in the future. 

I'll see what the doe with good teats produces, I'm hoping she will make a decent milker and be bred to a dairy buck to produce more milkers.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 10, 2011)

the kids will probably beable to nurse. Buat if one teat does not have an orifice, and the newborn latches onto that one, he could go with out milk, so you will need to check the teats when she kids and make sure they are working, and watch for the one the babies latch on to. 

Yah, milking will be next to impossible. It isn't like two teats that are clearly split all the way to the base of the udder, Often in that case, one of them is dominant over the other one and the smaller one kind of fades away. 

I had a yearling doe kid out this summer and it wasn't until she was almost ready to kid and the udder was full, did we realize she had a fish-teat. IT was almost all the way to the end before it  split off. Technically, if the two orifices do go all the way  to the end and do not split at all, it is considered acceptable by breed standards, hers split off maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of an inch right before the end. We never even noticed prior to this and we do check teats very well.  we cull out any fish-teated kids born on our farm. or sell them for show whethers.   meat prices are up right now, so you should get a fairly good price for them, as long as they have enough boer look to them.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 10, 2011)

Since the breeder said you'd get does with good teats I would call and let them know that maybe they accidentally rounded up the wrong girl or such and would they be willing to swap her back for a truly clean teated doe since you do want to milk. 


 If you are going to be milking them though and they are "wild" I hate to say it but... good luck.  I would only feed them from your hand.   Keep the bucket up in a shelf where they can't reach and use one hand to feed and the other to pet them.  If they are really skittish it's going to take some time to get them to where you can even get them ON a milk stand much less milk them.  Crazy birth hormones will help with that but they'll probably need to be locked in a kidding stall from day one so you can have your hands on the udders w/o having to chase them down.  If they associate milking with being chased first.... again, good luck.  

We had a boer nubian mix that we culled out years ago because after an entire year of only eating out of my hand she STILL ran like a freak if you tried to touch her w/o food.  Where as my big ol' Nubian girl will come and just lean her head on me for pettings and snuggles.  


I'd start with swapping out for a clean teated doe though.


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 10, 2011)

Yup, wild does are fun... not. Annoyingly after quite a lot of time spent with them the one who is finally starting to come around is the one with the bad teats. At least I can scratch her head and around her horns over the stable door. Getting near enough to milk is a whole other story. The other one still acts like I'm going to eat her.

I honestly think DH's decision that I had to get the 'cheap' does instead of nice quiet dairy does has been a huge waste of time and money. He also hates them because they are so wild and terrified of him and bolt in panic if he tries to go near them or the dog goes near them. I've tried to explain the reason the boys are great is because I bottle raised them and they are tame. The does can't help being wild because they were born in a paddock and completely unhanded. He just doesn't get it.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 10, 2011)

Well, your other option is to breed them to a very nice buck and just know that you will pull and bottle feed any babies that are worth keeping and market the rest.


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 10, 2011)

That's a great idea. 

I did intend to put the wethers in the freezer anyway so letting them raise anything I don't want to keep and bottle raising any nice doelings is a good option.


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## daisychick (Oct 10, 2011)

Breeding to a really good quality dairy buck could give you some good dairy type doelings to keep and spoil so that you can have tame loving girls to milk next season.    Sounds like a good solution to me.


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 10, 2011)

Yes, sounds _much_ better than fighting with crazy wild does! 

I did price CAE and JD tests recently as I was looking at ether buying a nice dairy buck or taking them on 'dates'. Unlike in the US I have to get the vet out to do the tests but it's still cheap insurance. If I buy a nice dairy buck and contaminate him it will be nearly impossible to sell him in the future and if I want to take them on dates they have to have their paperwork.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Oct 10, 2011)

You have a good chance of getting something off of the clean doe and a fair chance off of the fish teat one.  A friend had a doe with a side nubbin on a teat and she always threw clean kids.  Another had a clean doe that out of 8 kids had 1 with an absolute fish teat. 


And you can freezer the unclean girls as well.


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 10, 2011)

That's good to know, I sure hope I get at least one nice doeling out of these kids that are on the way now. 
Checked ligaments this morning and nothing exiting happening. Guess I'll keep waiting.


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## spanish goatee guy (Oct 12, 2011)

it makes it real tuff on small newborn to nurse and is areal pain for weak kids , just check your nannys  before you buy them  its more a boer trait ,


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 13, 2011)

Thanks, I will be sure to check in future, only reason I didn't when I bought these is the breeder knew I wanted to milk them and said he'd specifically pick out two with good teats. That and they were completely wild. He had them waiting for me ready to load and I didn't want to stress them more because they were thoroughly freaked out already.

I'm hoping to be at the birth so I can watch and make sure the kids can nurse, if they can't I'll have to bottle raise them, I already have supplies ready for if I need them.
Edit: Checked ligaments again this morning and still nothing exciting happening. Still waiting.


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 13, 2011)

As others have stated, yeah, split teats are not wanted if what you want are nice dairy animals. That said, however, Boer do just fine feeding their kids with multiple or even fish tailed teats. My friend has a Boer doe that has almost to seperate teats on one side, both teats on that side release milk, and the now single doeling(was triplets, but 2 were sold) has NO problems with suckling. In fact, that side is also the doeling's favored side of the udder.


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## RareBreedFancier (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh that's good.  Out of interest today I had a look at my buck and wether, the wether has two perfectly formed teats, the buck has two perfectly formed teats _on each side_. 

Oh well, guess that means I 'have to' buy a nice dairy buck, DH will be thrilled.


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