# Cowboy - It Doesn't Get Better Than This!



## frustratedearthmother

Ok - I have a big decision to make and I'm opening it up for discussion, lol. We're going to have an addition to the family. I've found someone in my area who has AKC registered and working Anatolians. I don't really care about the papers but I do care that they are working dogs. The pups are just over 3 weeks old and I'm second in line to pick. I want a male to work with Maddie so here are the choices:

Pup 1:







Pup 2:





Pup 3:





Pup 4:





Pup 5:






Pup 6:






I am partial to at LEAST 3 of them, lol. The seller wants us to pick pups soon... I'd rather wait until they are at least 8 - 10 weeks, but I'm not in charge. And, I want to hold on to my #2 place in line so I'll pick as soon as she calls me to come pick.
I've already seen the pups once last week, but they had barely opened their eyes and were just starting to totter around. And, they still had puppy breath....Ahhhhh!
The parents are impressive. The male is a light brindle - looks like a tiger! He's gorgeous and has a huge block head. The female was 120# before she was bred. They are both big and beautiful. They live on only about an acre, but they do stay with the goats and there are lots of chickens/ducks there too.
They'll be ready to come home by mid-June. I'm starting to get excited!


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## lkmartin1230

Pup 4, and 3, and 6 are really adorable......but how can you pick just one??? Good luck!!


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## samssimonsays

Congrats on the new addition! 1,3,4 and 6 are my preference... LOL


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## TAH

Pup four and three are my favorite.


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## promiseacres

3 and 4 by looks


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## Goat Whisperer

They are ALL adorable!  

.....Hate to be a partypooper, but I'd be very concerned that this breeder is already letting people come out and see the pups this young.....that's parvo waiting to happen   

Sorry, you can me now   

That being said, I still wanna smooch them


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## frustratedearthmother

I'd never slap you GW!  I appreciate your input and I thought the same way. 

But, she did have me put on a pair of shoe covers and use hand sanitizer before holding them.  Not sure if all that really helps that much, but it did ease my mind somewhat...   And, I'll be getting a health guarantee....of some sort.  Haven't seen it yet - but I haven't put down a deposit yet either!


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## Southern by choice

Concerns me that a "reputable" breeder wants you to pick a dog by it's looks. 
You want to compliment your existing dog. At this age you do not know strengths or weaknesses.

As @Goat Whisperer mentioned- YIKES! Parvo can come in on clothes etc. This breeder is potentially risking an entire litter. We don't allow anyone on the property until at least 2 vaccines have been given. 

Now I will say I did pick Tiggs (my Anatolian male) by looks and personality... 
BUT I was NOT needing another LGD I wanted him as a pet.
*I do know now how ridiculous this sounds.*
So I picked the brindle and Tiggs was a big timid baby. Another dog there was the BEST dog and if I had wanted a LGD that is the one I would have gotten. Tiggs in the end is a LGD and a great one at that but personality wise he is shy around strangers. I knew if I didn't take him someone else may and not be able to handle his temperament. He is 2 years and 160 lbs. and a very powerful wimp. 

But if you are asking for picks I will give mine... 3 possibly 6.

It would be better for the breeder to send you a video of the pups. There is much more to see when watching them explore and in motion... still pics are not helpful.


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## frustratedearthmother

I agree with not _wanting_ to pick by looks.  As of now she has 11 pups and only two spoken for so I'm really hoping to get some more time to let these guys develop a personality and a style.  It's not an ideal situation - but still the heart wants what the heart wants! 

This is a young couple and they are just starting with dogs and goats.  She has some beautiful show quality Nubians and her dogs are beautiful.  Having said that - I really can't say that she's got the experience to determine what dog will have what personality traits and which/where/how those traits will transfer into a working dog.  So, yes - it's a gamble but truthfully, almost every LGD I've ever owned has come to me through some strange circumstances. 

I've owned three GP's over a span of 20+ years and two of them were unique circumstances.  The first was from a woman going through a divorce...her husband sold all of her goats while she was out of town and he was trying to get rid of the dog too.  She was a neighbor to a friend of mine and the 'transfer' was a covert, late night operation.   Glad I didn't get shot!  This was an older dog and I was only blessed with her for a few years.  She died of lymphosarcoma...so sad.  But she trained ME and was the dog that got me hooked.

The second one was a dog that a young couple had bought to keep in an apartment!  They had her for several years before I got her and I'm not sure she'd ever seen an animal other than a cat and/or a squirrel!  Geeze louise.  Another semi-rescue who turned out to be a wonderful LGD.  She knew she was supposed to be with stock even if her former owners didn't.

Third one was Maddie, my current girl.  She was a birthday gift.  A very sweet gift even though I told my family to NEVER do that again, lol.  I didn't even see her before she came here and she is THE.BEST.DOG.EVER! 

So, while I probably should be more concerned I'm willing to let it play out as it will.  I am not locked in at this moment, but I am smitten. 

Shoot me now, lol!


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## Southern by choice

Then get 2 or 3. It's worth it at least you can pair them the way you want and if one doesn't work out then you have a great housedog/guardian.

That's _my_ style!


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## Latestarter

I'm kinda partial to 4 and then 3... then I guess 5 for his block head. Good luck and hope it all works out one way or the other.


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## MrsKuhn

I personally like the looks of number 1. But I'm not a person to pick a dog by looks. Actually I don't pick many animals by looks. I go by personality. I do understand the need for securing your pup before they are all sold though. Good Luck, they are all so adorable


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## frustratedearthmother

Southern by choice said:


> Then get 2 or 3. It's worth it at least you can pair them the way you want and if one doesn't work out then you have a great housedog/guardian.
> 
> That's _my_ style!



I like the way you think!    I could have a right pasture dog, a left pasture dog, a backyard dog...    This idea has merit!


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## babsbag

Southern by choice said:


> Then get 2 or 3. It's worth it at least you can pair them the way you want and if one doesn't work out then you have a great housedog/guardian.
> 
> That's _my_ style!



Enabler


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## frustratedearthmother

Should we start a LGD ADDICTS ANONYMOUS thread?


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## Southern by choice

frustratedearthmother said:


> Should we start a LGD ADDICTS ANONYMOUS thread?



You wouldn't be referring to anyone in particular would you?


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## frustratedearthmother

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....no one in particular!


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## BlessedWithGoats

Pup #3 would be my pick based on the pictures, and I like the coloring of #1 as well.


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## Baymule

Ummmmmm..............which one?????? Ummm............thinking here.............sweat popping out on forehead .................... ok I got it!!! How about *ALL OF THEM?? *


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## babsbag

I so wish I had another puppy for Mia to play with. In my limited dog raising experiences I have always had two pups at the same time and never saw this craziness I am seeing in Mia.  Get two, their small.


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## Young At Heart

Pup #3 is super cute with the paired white front legs but #6 just looks like he can get the job done. Who knows until they are older. Good Luck!


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## TAH

Welcome byh.


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## Latestarter

Hey there @Young At Heart  Greetings from the front range in Colorado! Welcome to BYH! Glad you joined us. Browse around a bit   and make yourself at home!


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## OneFineAcre

I think they are all gorgeous.


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## frustratedearthmother

Hi YAH - and welcome!

Decisions, decisions!  I did talk to the breeder today and she understands that I want to wait as long as possible to make my decision and she is willing to work with me.


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## TAH

That is good.


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## babsbag

I really think you need two. I am seriously considering getting my pup a friend. There are two litters on CL right now but I have to convince DH and my pocket book.


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## frustratedearthmother

I've thought about two...but they're pretty pricey and honestly I'm not sure I want to deal with two of them!  I know in some ways they would keep each other occupied, but then there's that puppy/pack mentality that kicks in.....yikes!

I think Maddie, my Pyr will be a good, steady influence on him, and I've also got Gracie (English Shepherd), who is just over a year old and very energetic.  If the pup needs to burn off steam I think Gracie can help him in that aspect!  She is perpetual motion.

However, Gracie will NOT go out to the pasture with us when I take the pup out.  Gracie would 'work' the stock every minute of every day if I let her and that's exactly what I don't want the pup to learn.

Of course, everything is subject to change when the little fella comes home!   We have to get to know each other a little and figure out his personality and style and give him a little time to grow. There's always the option to get another young'un later.

Now we've gotta come up with a name for him.  I can't keep callin' him the 'little fella' forever.


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## Baymule

You could always post a name the puppy thread!


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## frustratedearthmother

I kinda like the name "Cowboy"... don't know why but it jumped into my head the other day.  Haven't decided for sure and will wait until he comes home before I decide.


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## TAH

frustratedearthmother said:


> Now we've gotta come up with a name for him. I can't keep callin' him the 'little fella' forever.


Why not? He might just look like one.


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## frustratedearthmother

Mostly because he's not gonna be little for very long!  But, who knows?


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## Southern by choice

I call all of mine "baby"...  even though they are huge.
Bad thing is they all think they are my "BABY" which can cause quite the confusion.


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## frustratedearthmother

I'm guilty of spitting out the wrong names for the dogs at any given time.  I think they've figured out that if I'm looking at them - they are being summoned.  If I'm looking at the other one - they are off the hook!   They're so stinkin' smart!


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## Baymule

I like Cowboy!


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## frustratedearthmother

Me too - I hope it fits his personality!


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## OneFineAcre

I call mine "Puppy Loves"


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## frustratedearthmother

Puppy Loves - that's awesome!


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## Goatgirl47

I may be a little late, but I like puppy #3! I'm not _usually _one to pick by looks, but I love his/her markings.....and that face.... 

I saw this on Craigslist today - the parents are beauties for sure!   https://houston.craigslist.org/grd/5581989860.html


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## frustratedearthmother

They really are!


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## Latestarter

wow... a little pricey...


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## TAH

Have you got one yet? Just wondering.


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## Latestarter

Yeah... what she asked!


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## frustratedearthmother

Ha!  Ya'll's timing is almost perfect.  Cowboy is coming home tomorrow!


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## TAH

frustratedearthmother said:


> Ha!  Ya'll's timing is almost perfect.  Cowboy is coming home tomorrow!




Okay I know I am a drama llama. Witch one did you pic? 

And we must must must have pics.


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## frustratedearthmother

I picked the one pup whose pic I did NOT like...pup #5.  But, in person he is an awesome little guy.  He's bold and inquisitive and adventurous.  I think he's gonna be awesome!    And there will be pics!


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## TAH

frustratedearthmother said:


> I picked the one pup whose pic I did NOT like...pup #5.  But, in person he is an awesome little guy.  He's bold and inquisitive and adventurous.  I think he's gonna be awesome!    And there will be pics!


Good.


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## Southern by choice




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## Latestarter

Sweet!  Congrats!


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## frustratedearthmother

Cloudy and overcast today with on/off rain....   So, I've got some kinda cloudy and overcast pictures of Cowboy settling in and getting acquainted with his big sister.  So exciting to have a PUPPY!




Gracie checking out his ear, lol!





Broom?  I ain't skeered of no broom!






You be nice to me and I'll be nice to you.

Isn't he the cutest thing ever!   He's already out there giving 'backup' to his big sister.   In a day or so, if it ever stops raining, I'll take him out to feed with me and let him start getting to know his OTHER big sister - Maddie (Pyr extraordinaire!).


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## TAH

frustratedearthmother said:


> Cloudy and overcast today with on/off rain....   So, I've got some kinda cloudy and overcast pictures of Cowboy settling in and getting acquainted with his big sister.  So exciting to have a PUPPY!View attachment 18834
> 
> Gracie checking out his ear, lol!
> 
> View attachment 18837
> 
> Broom?  I ain't skeered of no broom!
> 
> 
> View attachment 18836
> 
> You be nice to me and I'll be nice to you.
> 
> Isn't he the cutest thing ever!   He's already out there giving 'backup' to his big sister.   In a day or so, if it ever stops raining, I'll take him out to feed with me and let him start getting to know his OTHER big sister - Maddie (Pyr extraordinaire!).


He is super cute. Can't wait till we have LGDS.


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## Baymule

I love his brindle color! He is so cute and I hope he makes you a wonderful dog.


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## OneFineAcre

Congrats


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## frustratedearthmother

Thanks ya'll!  I can already tell that he's gonna be a handful, lol. Let the adventure begin!


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## Baymule

More like let the battle of wits begin......


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## frustratedearthmother

You're right about that!


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## Latestarter

Am I imagining the size of his paws? They look almost as large as the full grown collie's... He's gonna be on pretty big cowboy! I hope he works out to be all that you want and expect!


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## frustratedearthmother

Good observation LS!  His paws are every bit as big as hers.  He's gonna be a big boy.   His mom was 120 pre-pregnancy and his dad a bit heavier.   I'm about to make a vet appt. for him later this week so I'll get an official weight then.


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## samssimonsays

Congrats on the new bundle of teeth and trouble, I mean JOY   He is an absolute DOLL!!! !


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## frustratedearthmother

Ha, you are right on the money, lol.  He decided a couple hours after he got home that the best defense was a good offense and he launched himself at Gracie and he wasn't even kidding!  

I forgave his antics for the most part, but about the 5th time he went after her (and she was just laying down watching him from about 5 feet away) I had to intervene.  I (gently - no abuse here ((yet!))  put him on his side and made him stay there until he quieted down.  While he has been handled and socialized with people, he has never had to observe any manners except for what his mama and littermates taught him, so that was his first lesson.

By this morning they are the best of friends - even sharing a food bowl.


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## samssimonsays

That is great news!


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## TAH

I'am so happy that he is working out for you.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Congratulations!


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## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> Ha, you are right on the money, lol.  He decided a couple hours after he got home that the best defense was a good offense and he launched himself at Gracie and he wasn't even kidding!
> 
> I forgave his antics for the most part, but about the 5th time he went after her (and she was just laying down watching him from about 5 feet away) I had to intervene.  I (gently - no abuse here ((yet!))  put him on his side and made him stay there until he quieted down.  While he has been handled and socialized with people, he has never had to observe any manners except for what his mama and littermates taught him, so that was his first lesson.
> 
> By this morning they are the best of friends - even sharing a food bowl.



And so it begins....


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## frustratedearthmother

Yes ma'am.  I didn't undertake this task lightly.   And, as much as I love having a new puppy around I have a lot of excitement and a _tiny_ bit of dread for the next year or two, lol!    A great LGD, in my opinion, is the result of a 'process' not an 'event'.   It certainly also helps that the instinct lies within most of them.  

He definitely needs some people work to understand where he ranks.  The time will come when I hope to completely trust his instincts - but that's a ways down the road.


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## frustratedearthmother

Came home today to a gigantic mess on the back porch, lol.  It appears that Gracie and Cowboy played and played and played to the detriment to my patio table and potted aloe vera plant.  ARGH - gotta love a puppy!  Technically Gracie isn't much more than a puppy herself at 16 months.   I blame her, lol.  Cowboy could NOT have instigated anything, he's too sweet.

Now - I knew when I signed on for Cowboy that most suggest that a pup stay with his parents for 12 weeks or so.  But, I'm glad I got him now - at 9 weeks.  This pup needs some individual attention!  He is a sweetheart and likes to be loved on,  and scratched, and fawned over - but he has no concept of anything else to do with humans.  He's never been aked to do anything...no whistle gets his attention...no smoochie noise to call him to you...he's apparently never heard the word 'no'.  Starting tomorrow he'll begin to get lots and lots of one-on-one attention.


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## Baymule

If that's the case, by 12 weeks he could have been set in some bad habits. Good thing you went ahead and got him sooner. We know what you will be doing for the next 2 years!


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## frustratedearthmother

Yes ma'am, I will be on puppy patrol for awhile!   I've had him a week today and I'm happy to say there's been improvement.

He's finally getting the idea that when I whistle or make smoochie noises that something good is gonna happen.  He either gets loved on or something to eat - so it's sinking in quick.

He's also learning some valuable lessons.:

1.  Crates are not fun at first.  But, after you stop crying and figure out that you are in air conditioning and there's a nice chew toy just waiting to be chewed on - it's not so bad!

2.  Not a good idea to walk between/under mama's feet.  I stepped right in the middle of the little guy Wednesday.  I thought I'd killed my new dog after only a couple of days...but nah.  He rolled over, fussed at me and then got up and went on his way.

3.  Watch out for the spotted goat.  She does NOT like dogs - except for her Maddie, who she claims as her very own personal LGD.

4.  Chasing chickens is NOT a good idea.  Especially when  you chase one right by the spotted goat and she takes advantage of ANY chance to roll a puppy across the pen, lol.   Talk about timing!  His very first attempt at chicken chasing led him right by the dog-hating spotted goat who disciplined him for me, lol!

5.  The big white dog is SCARY!  He met Maddie through the fence a few times, but his first foray into the pasture was traumatic.
He found the one hole in the fence that allows him to get out of the yard and follow me everywhere on the place.  So, I just let him.  When he followed me into the big pasture and Maddie saw him.... whoooweeee.   She came thundering up towards him and he was screaming bloody murder before she even got close.  Maddie, being the wonderful dog that she is understands that if I brought him in the pasture that he is to be tolerated.  Cowboy didn't know that at the time.  Second/third meeting went much better.

Went to the vet Friday.  He weighs 18 lbs at 9 weeks and vet said he was lean - in a good way.  We don't want a fat pup.  He's parasite free, eats well but he's a busy fella.

More adventures to come, I'm sure!


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## babsbag

Oh my, Cowboy and my Mia should get together, but then we would just have to throw in the towel as they would rule. My girl also had very little human contact and I got her at 12 weeks. She had never heard NO or Leave it. Never got corrected for biting hands, feet, legs, etc. I wish I had taken her at 8 weeks. Love the goat correction for chasing chickens, absolutely perfect. My older LGDs pretty much let Mia do as she pleases, which is really too bad... I need your spotted goat. I hope your Mattie helps with his training. 

Not trying to hijack your thread but I have to share a picture of Mia in "prison"  aka as Time Out. Just sounds like your Cowboy in the crate.


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## Ferguson K

He seems like a riot!


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## frustratedearthmother

He IS a riot, lol!

Oh my, the look on Mia's face is priceless!  It's kinda like... "you just wait 'til I get out of here"....yikes!  She is a beautiful girl though!

It's hot here so (heat index 107) Cowboy and Gracie are inside...I call it crate training and they call it nap time.  A couple days ago he thought it was punishment - now he thinks it's a reward!


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## Baymule

Goat justice!! Awesome!!


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## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy is growing like a weed.  He's going to be a long, tall drink of water!

He's madly in love with Gracie - the English Shepherd.   He is TERRIFIED of Maddie - the Pyr!   If she so much as looks at him sideways he literally runs screaming away from her.  This will have to change, lol!

This past weekend I started taking steps to remedy this situation.    I'm not sure where his fear of her comes from except that he certainly recognizes her as the 'owner' of all she surveys at this point.  So, now I'm making sure to take him with me to the pasture and leave Gracie in the yard so that she's not an influence on his behavior while with the goats.

He's very submissive with the goats.  He's interested, wants to sniff noses with them but there are a few that are aggressive with him and I have to intervene to make sure he doesn't get blasted.  Poor baby!

Chickens on the other hand...he's not so submissive with.  He's had a couple run-ins with them.  This is the one area that being around Gracie is not going to work.  Gracie allows no fence jumping chickens in her yard....she 'herds' them right out and if they don't comply bad things can happen.  I can't have Cowboy learning that behavior from her.

Sooooo, I caught him harassing a hen Saturday.  I called him out on it - shouting NO.... and got no response.  I got to him and use the two finger poke in the ribs to distract him (giant fail) and let's just say it'll take more than that to distract him.   Last resort was to lay him out.  He didn't want to submit but he wasn't horribly resistant.  I made him lay in a submissive pose with the chicken right in his face until he relaxed.  Since then - so far so good.  Not that I never expect him to terrify a chicken again, but if I'm lucky enough to catch him in the act - I think he can figure out that it's not the smartest thing to do.

On a more positive note - saw some of his 'guarding' tendencies come out on Sunday.  I had let all the critters up into the front barnyard to do some weed control.  This was the closest he'd ever seen the horses and he didn't like them that close to some of the young doelings. This little fella got between the goats and the horses and stood his ground barking and barking at the horses (these are little horses).  They didn't really care that he was barking at them, but it gave me an idea that his head is in the right place!  So very cool to see that in a young pup.

All in all I'm very pleased with him.  He's a puppy and he's going to make mistakes.  As long as he learns from them - all is well.

I neeeed to get some fresh pics of him.  He is growing like a weed.    His coat is getting lighter and with the brindle markings I think he will be a stunning dog.


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## babsbag

So glad he is working out for you and on a selfish note I am happy to hear that Mia is not the only one that does not listen. 

Now Southern can avert her eyes and look the other way but I bought an e-collar with the sound and vibrate mode on it, my old one only had "hurt" mode and I don't want to use that on her but I have to be able to get her attention when she is 100' from me or on the other side of the fence.  She knows "no" but she needs to respond when she is out of my reach. Haven't used it yet, but that time is coming.

Would love to see pictures of him.


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## Southern by choice

babsbag said:


> Now Southern can advert her eyes and look the other way but I bought an e-collar with the sound and vibrate mode on it,



LOL

Don't yall know that they absolutely positively do hear ya... they just want you to trek all the way to where they are so you can gaze into their eyes and be so mesmerized that you forget all about what they are doing.


Blue & Callie still look at us when we call to them... I swear they smile and turn away as if to say "watch this- I'll get her to come to us" 

I tell them I know full well what they are doing! Then I tell them they are brats!


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## babsbag

I am sure she hears me and knows exactly what I want her to do or not do.  I just need her to think that my reach has become longer. She no longer bites at me, she is pretty good about not jumping, and the older goats put her in her place and she ducks and covers like a good girl. Oh, and the last chicken moved out of the barn. So that leaves baby goats...and I mean young...like 4 weeks. The ones that are 8 weeks and older she ignores. There is hope for her.


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## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> So glad he is working out for you and on a selfish note I am happy to hear that Mia is not the only one that does not listen.


Ha - Thanks!   I've got high hopes for both of them.  Cowboy's problem is that he never heard the word 'no' before he came here.  The breeder wasn't totally hands-off, but thert was no discipline.... sigh.

He's still a sweetie though and he's gonna be fine.  I have decided - so shall it be!  



Southern by choice said:


> Don't yall know that they absolutely positively do hear ya... they just want you to trek all the way to where they are so you can gaze into their eyes and be so mesmerized that you forget all about what they are doing



I knew he was up to something, lol!

But, he's so cute it hardly matters...


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## Southern by choice

Callie had that same "look" as a pup! 


LOVE IT!   

He looks naughty! 
My kinda dog!


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## frustratedearthmother

He's a pure mess, and I love him that way!


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## Baymule

He is a handsome boy!


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## babsbag

Boy I wish you were in CA. Oh, the pups he and Mia could make. Might not be  easy LGDs to raise but they sure would be lookers. He is stinkin' adorable.



frustratedearthmother said:


> I have decided - so shall it be!


  That needs to be my attitude too. Love it !!!


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## frustratedearthmother

@babsbag  - They would produce beauties for sure - stubborn beauties, lol!

Cowboy is starting to grow up.  He's around 14 weeks old now.  Several times this week he's really started showing his guardian tendencies.   Once (that I witnessed) he showed his puppy tendencies, lol.

He doesn't like the horses around the goats - or maybe he just doesn't like the horses at all.  Few days ago he got between them and some young doelings.  It was the first time I'd seen him positively 'guard' something.

Yesterday we went out in the pasture and the horses were just standing around munching hay.  One of the older does was laying in the midst of them.  Cowboy didn't want them there so he tried in his puppy way to 'suggest' that they move on.  They don't pay him much mind, lol.  So, after barking didn't work he just went to the older doe and laid down right beside her...intently watching the horses.  I praised him and praised him, lol.  He ate it up!

Sadly, I lost a buckling last week and Cowboy was with me when I found him.  As far as I know he hasn't experienced a death in his young life.  He sniffed that little goat from one end to another...walked around him a few times and then laid down close to him and wouldn't let the chickens near.  It was a sad time but he made me proud.  He was visibly upset when we removed the little guy from the pen, following along and somberly watching as we laid him to rest.

And, of course after showing his growth and maturity.... puppyhood came back, lol.   A couple of roosters were testing their skills against each other and he was intrigued.  He watched them, followed them, staring intently.  I didn't intervene because I wanted to see what he was going to do. I called DH over and said 'look at him' he's doing so well' - and then he pounced, lol.  But, he did break up a rooster fight - so I guess it was a good thing!

He's getting much more accustomed to spending time with Maddie - and she's accepting him now, even enticing him to play a bit.  By golly, I think this is going to work!


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## Dage

I like 1, 3 or 6...but impossible to know personality and disposition by a photo!


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## frustratedearthmother

Dage said:


> I like 1, 3 or 6...but impossible to know personality and disposition by a photo!


 So true!  But, I made my pick and he's been with me for awhile now and is working out great!


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## babsbag

Cowboy sounds like he is going to be a great LGD, cute about him laying down by the doe to guard her from the horses. I love it when they do things like that.

Mia spent the morning with the goats and did good. It is so hot here that she isn't much interested in chasing during the day...false sense of security for me. LOL


----------



## Baymule

Aww.... that is so sweet that Cowboy guarded the doe from those bad ol' horses! And how touching that he was grieved by the passing of the buckling. And how normal for the puppy to come roaring back after all that responsibility!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy is growing like a ...well...like a puppy!  He's officially at 15 weeks and 1 day.

Maddie (pyr) is officially in her summer bikini body.  She was quite the pudge a few months ago, but with this heat she prefers the leaner look.  We've got most of her coat cleaned up, but she's so stinking picky about letting me groom her rear end, lol. (and that's dirt on her behind...nuttin else, lol)

Gracie is still the 'instigator' of the group.  She's just like a hyper kid - she can't be still.

Cowboy shows moments of great maturity and moments of pure puppy.  I let him into the air conditioned breezeway for a nap a couple of days ago while I crashed on the couch for a nap of my own.   Somehow or another I didn't latch the crate door completely and when I went to let him out ... oh my.  Let's just say that Cowboy Chaos reigned that day.  There was not one inch of the breezeway floor that wasn't covered with itty, bitty shreds of what WAS an entire new six-pack of paper towels.  But, he was such a good boy that he covered the floor with paper towels before he shat on it...grrrrrrr.  He NEVER soils his crate, but when you have a whole room at your disposal and ya gotta go....well..whats a puppy to do?


----------



## babsbag

At least Cowboy only chewed up the paper towels and not the floor covering. Good boy.  

After 4 months of me wondering why Mia hadn't chewed the garden hose that supplies water to the kid pen guess what she did? When that puppy mentality shines it sure is bright.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> At least Cowboy only chewed up the paper towels and not the floor covering. Good boy.



That's a good point.  (even though Gracie already took care of a couple of carpet squares...)  Dogs!


----------



## babsbag

Had a Dalmatian once that was locked in the bathroom while we went to town...he tore up a big hunk of the vinyl floor.


----------



## Baymule

Nothing like a good game of "tug" for a puppy. Our black Lab/Great Dane goofus, Parker played tug with the water hose and reduced it to tiny bits. One morning, the TV wouldn't come on. After investigating, we found the cable out in the yard. Parker had found it where it went into the wall to the TV. Well, it was down at his level and he "tugged" the whole durn thing out of the attic and utterly destroyed it. A visit from the local TV provider later and a MUCH higher point of entry into the house, we had TV again.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> Had a Dalmatian once that was locked in the bathroom while we went to town...he tore up a big hunk of the vinyl floor.



My daughter brought her Westie to our house to visit and put him in her former bedroom.  When she went to take him out she found that he'd scratched a good sized hole in the carpet right in front of the door.  Grrrr.



Baymule said:


> After investigating, we found the cable out in the yard. Parker had found it where it went into the wall to the TV. Well, it was down at his level and he "tugged" the whole durn thing out of the attic and utterly destroyed it



Poor Parker - I'm sure he didn't mean to, lol....  It probably looked like a snake to him and he was protecting you!   Kind of like I didn't mean to cut through our cable when trimming the shrubs around the house because that black cable looked just like a branch to me!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy had a vet appt yesterday. He's not so keen on car rides, but at least he didn't cry the whole way like he did last time.  The office staff loves him!  Vet loves him!    Can't blame 'em a bit, lol!  One of the techs lifted up a front foot and compared it to her hand size.  Cowboy's foot was bigger than her hand.   She laughed and said that they only have a couple of clients dogs whose feet are bigger than her hand.  Vet was 'playing' with his loose skin and laughed and said that a whole other dog could fit inside that skin.

They also asked me if I was going to have him neutered and when they got my response - a resounding "no" they said they didn't think I'd want that.  He did get 'chipped' while he was there so I'm glad to have that done.  Next visit for rabies shot and he'll be good for awhile.

He had a great checkup. In the five weeks between visits he more than doubled his weight.  He went from 18 lbs to 40 lbs!   He's gonna be a big ol' boy. I was concerned that he might be growing tooo fast, but vet says he's fine - he's lean but in great shape.   He also commented that he must chew on everything in sight because he can see the wear on his teeth.  He's right!  Despite all the high-dollar chew toys I bought him, he prefers to chew sticks, fence posts, dog bowls, grandkids water pistols, and for awhile he was on a patio-furniture eating binge.  I've gotta give him credit though - when he knows I'm serious about something (like NOT eating the patio furniture) - he learns.  No means no!

His guardian tendencies are coming out more and more every day.  A couple days ago my daughter came into town for a visit.  She brought her dog Sailor.  Sailor and Gracie are fast friends and enjoy each other's company.  BUT - this was the first time shes brought her since Cowboy came home.  I wasn't paying attention when DD went to put Sailor in the back yard until all the snarling and commotion!  Cowboy was standing on the back porch - hackles up, snarling and blocking Sailor's exit from the house and made it known that NO other dog was coming into HIS backyard!  And, he was serious!

He's also been 'asking' to spend more and more time with the critters (and away from Gracie).  For the last week or so in the afternoons when I go out to feed he wants to go into the pasture where he stays until bed-time.  A few weeks ago he wasn't so happy about that and would whine and want back in the front area where Gracie lives.  I'm glad to see that he's becoming more independent and serious about his job.   I'm so pleased with him I could just spit, lol!


----------



## Southern by choice

Just love the guardian breeds! They are unique!
It is so fun to watch them grow, not just in body but in mind and ability. So cool!


----------



## TAH

He growing up a bunch!!


----------



## OneFineAcre




----------



## Baymule

Your little boy is growing up....sniff, sniff....................he is stepping into his future


----------



## Mini Horses

So -- does he not let you hold the camera anymore?    We need pictures, you know this  

I love the one of all three dogs together....like a huddle for the game plan.


----------



## babsbag

Yes, we must have pictures.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I've been remiss... mostly because I don't think camera's work when the heat index is above 105....  where's the "I'm melting" emoji?


----------



## Latestarter

But at least you have water? Yes?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I do, I do!


----------



## babsbag

I don't work well when it is above 105°either, water or not.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Me either!!   Heat index is 109 right now...   I have on occasion resorted to wetting myself down from head to foot... but in this humidity it doesn't even help all that much.


----------



## babsbag

I remember being in AL one summer and it being so humid and hot that even swimming didn't help much.

We don't discuss "heat index" in CA, it is what it says it is on the thermometer. Last week was about 111° but made it to 116° one day. Only 102° today and I just go done weeding the garden...feels great after last week.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Ugh I feel you on the the heat! 

Seems like the last 2 weeks all had heat indexes of 100+. When it was only 90 I got excited and started cleaning pens LOL

Now we have some storms blowing through and has cooled things off


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> but made it to 116° one day.





Goat Whisperer said:


> When it was only 90 I got excited and started cleaning pens LOL



I can do 90!  I imagine I'd need a sweater  - but I can do 90!


----------



## TAH

It is 77 were I am . I can't stand 100+ wether. 109 that is ay higher than we get here.


----------



## Ferguson K

It's been hotter than blazes here, too. 

At least we're not in south Texas. My Dad sent me this the other day:


----------



## frustratedearthmother

HOLY COW - That's INSANE!!

I need to get some pics of the cracks we have in the ground...


----------



## TAH




----------



## Ferguson K

It's only been in the low 100's here. Burning up like a lobster. I'm tomato red today after our hike....


I feel y'all on the heat.


----------



## Ferguson K

It's only been in the low 100's here. Burning up like a lobster. I'm tomato red today after our hike....


I feel y'all on the heat.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

TAH said:


> It is 77 were I am


That does it - I'm moving!


----------



## TAH

frustratedearthmother said:


> That does it - I'm moving!


We're in Oregon. It does get to 90 sometimes.

 You should come move with us it is 70-80 all summer long and there is a breeze off the bay. We are moving to Alaska.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

That does sound tempting!  (Except for the winters!)


----------



## TAH

frustratedearthmother said:


> (Except for the winters!)


The winters have been very mild these last few years.


----------



## TAH

At least were we are moving.


----------



## babsbag

Were... or we are...


----------



## misfitmorgan

TAH said:


> The winters have been very mild these last few years.



Thats because the jetstream moved over and is sending alaska's winter to michigan...which i hate but it can move back at any time which i am hoping!!

i would love alaska in the spring/summer/fall....not in winter..nope i can barely stand normal michigan winter.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

It's crazy hot!   Didn't even know Cowboy's tongue was that long.



Ground is dry!



Hanging out with friends in the shade of the barn



But hanging out with 'big sister' is the best!


Temp was 98 degrees today with a heat index that hit 118 for a while.... geeze!


----------



## Latestarter

Look at that satisfied glance he's giving you laying there with his mentor! What a good boy!


----------



## Southern by choice

Around here we say the Toli's could use their tongue to strangle a coyote!
Not sure why but Anatolians really do have the longest tongues!

He is growing up so nicely!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy is one week shy of 5 months old and it's about time he start earning his keep!  Sooooo, he's been getting a lot more pasture time.  He's been doing really well.  In fact, his big 'sis' Maddie has removed herself from that pasture and is letting Cowboy do the biggest share of goat duty. 

Maddie has been jumping a fence lately and staying in a smaller pen that usually has nothing but chickens in it.  I'm not sure if she's decided to retire, or  isn't happy about Cowboy being there OR goes there because it is the one pen where she has the best view of everything.  She stays on top of a lowboy trailer and even that little bit of extra height gives her a better view of both pastures and the other pens.  Who knows what is going through her big ol head?  But, she's been on the job for 6 years and I trust her judgment.

For two days and two nights now Cowboy has been full-time in the pasture.  (Holiday weekend works for me to be able observe him more)  The goats aren't 100% happy about it, but they tolerate him pretty well.  For the most part if he's lying in the barn with him they're fine with him being there.  But, I've got a couple of does who still bow up at him and give him "THE LOOK".  For the most part he respects "THE LOOK" but sometimes he gets stupid and walks too close to one of those does and they will still roll him a few feet before he regains his feet and slinks away with that "how could I be so dumb" look on his face, lol.

I've seen absolutely NO real aggression from him towards the goats.  There's one old gal who is his favorite and he stays close to her, licks her face when she lays down and follows her around.  Once, and only once-over a month ago, did I see him put his foot over her back when she was lying down and I immediately corrected him.  He had this 'ashamed' look on his face as if to say... I was just hugging her.  But, putting a paw on a goat is not ok!  I haven't seen it since.   Good dog!

However, this morning I looked out an upstairs window and saw an interaction between him and a chicken.  He was lying down and a Faverolle hen walked right between his feet...no fear whatsoever of him.  So, he picks up one big ol' paw and puts it over her. Bad dog!

Being a true Faverolle (very submissive chickens) she just gives up - no self-preservation instinct at all, lol.  Next, he stands up with the chicken's wing in his mouth and proceeds to carry her.  Now - I'm 50+ yards away, in the house so I know even if I yell at him, I can't back it up....so I just watched him....literally biting my tongue to keep from calling him out.  After a couple of steps he's just standing there with this chicken dangling from his jaws...doing nothing more with her.   At that point I couldn't stand it anymore so I yelled out at him.  He opens his mouth, chicken drops out and calmly walks away and Cowboy is just standing there with a goofy look on his face....like... what?   WHAT?  Probably just good luck that he picked a chicken that wouldn't fight.  I think a squawking, struggling chicken could have possibly triggered a prey drive in him.  Not totally convinced of that because I haven't seen anything that even looks like he has a prey drive.  He's the most laid back, chill dog I've ever had!

He's such a goofball and this is definitely a leaning experience for him.  The biggest problem I have with him right now is that I need to bring him in from the pasture to eat.  He's got NO food aggression whatsoever...at least not yet.  If somebody else wants his food he just walks away...grrrrr!   So, I bring him in to feed him.  He needs to learn to eat while he's got the chance so this morning, after he got distracted, I took his food away and booted him back out into the pasture.  Maybe he'll be hungrier later and get it through his numbskull that he needs to eat when he has the chance.

All in all - so pleased with him.  He's still a pup so I still keep a close watch and still won't be surprised if he makes a mistake.  Stay tuned!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Loved reading the update, but was greatly saddened when you didn't have any new pics of Cowboy 

I wish you had the chicken incident on video 
I couldn't help but laugh when I read it!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I know... I need to get some new pics.  He just never does anything cute when I have a camera, lol!   He's bigger than Gracie (the English Shepherd) now.  For about 2 days they were the same height and I swear, by the next morning he was an inch taller.  He has a tendency to grab her collar and 'lead' her around the yard...the big dingbat!

I'll have some free time tomorrow to try and follow him around and hopefully get some shots.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

And, for your viewing pleasure....

Cowboy and his bestie Gracie:  He's definitely bigger than her now.  Last week, I swear he wasn't!





He stands guard over his favorite geriatric goat:





Stay away from MY goat:





(not really - they were just playing!)

Egg?  What egg?  I didn't steal no egg!





And - even though he's looking pretty grown up - Maddie still rules the roost!


----------



## Ferguson K

He's getting big!


----------



## TAH

He is getting bigger by the minute. How big do you expect him to get?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

LOL - no idea!   Actually, his mom weighed 120lbs pre-pregnancy.  Dad was a little shorter than mom but he outweighs her by at least 10+ lbs.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Time to brag on my boy again.  Yesterday morning I got up and was looking out of an upstairs window when I noticed Maddie stand up from her vantage point on the lowboy trailer and start barking.

I notice that Cowboy is over there with her - but not on the trailer - don't think she allows that, lol!     As soon as Maddie started barking Cowboy jumped up and is 'on alert' looking where she's looking.  But, he didn't start barking - he turned around and high-tailed it out of that pen - and right up to the front of the barn where the goats are.  As soon as they see him come running, they duck into the barn and he's standing right in front - focused on whatever Maddie is barking at.  He never barked - but he placed himself between whatever it was that Maddie was barking at and his herd, and it was obvious he was on guard!

Now - the only threat I saw was the neighbor taking out the garbage - but I was soooo proud of Cowboy's reaction.  Maddie gave the alert and he went straight to the goats.  What a good boy!

Grabbed a pic at feeding time last night.  One of these things is not like the other, lol:


----------



## Latestarter

Good Cowboy! That's awesome! Not so sure about him trying to eat like a goat   But with his coat, he blends right in with them. Gonna be a bad day for any coyote or other predator that approaches and doesn't recognize him for what he is.


----------



## Southern by choice

Love hearing this! This is what dogs are suppose to do and be. 

I had a vet one time see this and the vet said- oh that dog is fearful- 

I tried to explain WHAT the dog was doing... fell on deaf ears.

On occasion the vet has been out since then.... let's just say it is CLEARLY evident the dog is NOT fearful 

We will leave it at that 

@Latestarter  this is common  for guardian dogs. Many eat like goats... everything from leaves off trees to hay to pine cones etc.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Ah, thanks SBC.  Means a lot coming from you!  He really is starting to 'get it'. 

Right before I got that pic he had his head through the fence and was chowing down.  I usually bring him into another area and feed him while the goats are eating - but it just didn't work that way on Sunday.


----------



## Baymule

I love Cowboy!  He is such a good boy. He sure is growing up to be a big, handsome, smart dog!


----------



## Southern by choice

Curious as how you like the Toli compared to the Pyr?

I LOVE both! They are so very different though.
The cross of the two IMO can give you the best of both worlds... or the worst   I usually see most that are just great though.

I have found, from a broad perspective based on consults and trouble calls, that Pyrs tend to be more "hit or miss" and require a bit more working with in many areas. The Toli's seem to not have as many issues. Toli's are usually a bit more controlling with their livestock but are really good at setting boundaries.

I have been going through my files and wow it is like going down memory lane.   I am coming across so many great photos of when I had a real camera.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I love them both too!

Cowboy hasn't been full-time in the pasture for very long, so I'm sure there will be more things that I notice as time goes on.  But, the biggest difference I see is that Maddie is more of a 'stand back and watch' kinda dog UNLESS there's an issue.  She likes to hang back and see the big picture.   However, if she knows an animal is in distress she's right there being concerned, loving and tender.  If she thinks there's a threat - she definitely handles it.

When she was MUCH younger she did think chickens were nice squeaky toys for awhile, but she went through that phase pretty quickly.  And, of course she didn't mean to kill them - she would just hold them down and lick them to death...

Cowboy on the other hand - even at this age is always right with the goats.  He has his favorites already.  He sleeps curled up with them, follows them everywhere and as the pic shows, tries to eat with them too.  He's looked sideways at the chickens a couple of times, but sheesh, I have one rooster who shares his feed bowl every time and he doesn't even care.

He is still very submissive to Maddie, but it's just a matter of time.  I think he's going to end up quite a bit larger than her.  He goes to the vet this week - so I'll get a new weight on him then.


----------



## Baymule

Now you need a nice Toli girlfriend for Cowboy. Brindle preferred.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Thought about it, lol.  But, I'm not sure Maddie would be happy with that.  She's always been so tolerant of Gracie, (the English Shepherd) but she 'knew' Gracie was more of a yard dog and not a pasture dog. 

She's taking her sweet time to warm up to Cowboy.  She absolutely terrified him when he was a little guy.  She's getting better now though, but she still insists on threatening him just to let him know he's still the little guy and she's still the boss.  

It might not be pretty when he matures a little more and starts to assert himself.  It will be interesting to see if he ends up the alpha.  I think I expected them to bond a little faster.  It is getting better since he's in the pasture pretty much full-time now.


----------



## Baymule

My Trip will be 2 in November and I think it is finally time to put him and Paris together. But then she is a little psycho. She won't tolerate a female dog at all.

Your Maddie probably wouldn't appreciate a female rival and the new female would have to be kept separate from her. So I guess no brindle girlfriend for Cowboy!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Maybe in a few years when Maddie retires and becomes a yard dog!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh my goodness...  that DOG!

Some days they can't do anything wrong and other days they can't do anything right and still other days it changes hourly, lol.

Took Cowboy to the vet this morning.  It was pouring down rain. He didn't wanna go.   I've been putting the front seat in the truck as far back as it would go and letting him ride on the floor.   Worked well until he got too big to fit there anymore, lol.  So, I folded up half of the back seat, covered everything with a blankie and had to literally pick his big ol' titty baby self up and physically put him in the truck.  In. The. Pouring. Rain.   Off we go.  Wet dog stinks badly enough - but when the wet titty baby dog decides to CRAP in the truck it's dang near unbearable.  ARGH!     Thankfully, the vet office is only about 10 minutes away.  Also thankfully, I don't have to pick him up to get him out.  He comes out of the truck real good.  Mostly because it STINKS to high heaven.  I grab the blankie, roll it up and toss it in the bed of the truck.  Also, just to confirm the fact that he's been eating not only goat food, but also chicken food, his poop was full of corn, lol.  Oh, and he managed to drop a little on the clinic floor too.  Vet thought it was funny - tech thought it was funny - I DIDN'T think it was funny...

Oh, and while I was paying the bill, he sat so patiently waiting for me.  I was so proud of him...he's trying to redeem himself, right??  One of the tech walks behind me and started laughing - again.  She reaches around me and hands me one of the slip leashes that all vets have hanging on a hook.  I give her a funny look and she points to Cowboy.  He's sitting calmly behind me, but he's chewed his leash in half.  I'm holding on to a chewed up end of a leash and he's just sitting there with an innocent look on his face - not attached to his leash anymore. ARGH!!!  By this time I'm about ready to skin him and make a really pretty brindle rug!

So, sporting his new red leash that the vet's office so generously gave me we head back to the truck. I had an extra towel, because it's pouring down rain.  I spread the towel on the floor and politely ask him to climb in.  (In the pouring down rain.)  Do you think this dog wants to go home?  Nope!  He wants to get me arrested for dog abuse!  Again, I physically pick him up and put him back in the back seat.  His revenge?  Crap...more corn filled crap!  This time I think he was proud of himself....

Oh...and he weighs 64.5 lbs.  He gained 24 lbs in 49 days.  Dang near a half pound a day.

And, when I was out working some goats later today - he was constantly underfoot and totally in my way.  Licking and kissing the goats because he thought I was killing 'em I guess...   I'm not gonna kill a goat today- but I dang sure felt like smacking a dog, lol!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I about died laughing reading your post! 
Naughty boy! 

I know it wasn't funny in the moment and I'm glad I wasn't in your shoes! But I still had to chuckle over it


----------



## NH homesteader

I'm so sorry...  This was the funniest thing I've read in a while.  I'm sure it wasn't at the time!


----------



## samssimonsays

I am sooooo glad I'm not alone! I have had freakishly similar scenarios with the dogs here! I am rolling laughing so hard! I swear some days they want us batty.


----------



## TAH

Thanks cowboy for the laugh after leaving oregon and being super sad he has brighter my day somewhat.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

HA!  Ya'll wouldn't think it's so funny if you had to go for a ride in my truck, lol!     

But, I've gotta tell you that Hawaiian Breeze Lysol (or Hawaiian Essence.. or something like that) is pretty good at killing corn filled crap smell!  

Silly dog...but he was good after I got him home and was very concerned when I was messing with "his" goats!


----------



## Baymule

OMG!! Tears are rolling down my face!  I read it to my DH and could barely talk for laughing! My side hurts!  You might want to Cowboy, but I want to him for giving me such a !!!


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry Fem, but that was a pretty good chuckle  Now please tell me you have leather seats?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

As God (and all of ya'll) are my witnesses - that dog will NEVER get in my truck again.  I'll take him to the vet in the goat trailer if I have to....but never, ever, in the history of everything - he. will. NOT. step paw in my truck!  (and I'll probably never eat corn again either - bad association!

LS - yes - leather.  Thank goodness it cleans up so much better than cloth. 

And, I have a whole brand new can of air freshener in there!

Geeze, what a day!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Have you ever worked with him loading up? Or was this his first time? 

Hope it's not raining and you can roll down the windows to air out the truck


----------



## Latestarter

Some might have thought I was joking, but yeah, leather is a tad bit easier to clean than cloth. I had a gallon of milk break open on a cloth seat and even pouring water on it that truck smelled like sour milk for the better part of 6 months. You could always make a "dog run" wire side to side in the bed and clip him to that to travel...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Goat Whisperer said:


> Have you ever worked with him loading up? Or was this his first time?



Oh no - not his first time at all.  He's never been this stubborn about it either.  Maybe it was the rain...maybe it was that he's been in the pasture full time and he really didn't want to leave his goats... maybe it was because he was in the back seat instead of the front where he usually rides...or maybe it was just all that fiber, lol.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

They sure do try to keep us guessing!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> leather is a tad bit easier to clean than cloth



It is!  And, thankfully, most of this was on the blanket and/or the towel - just a few "kernels" on the floor. 

But, I hear ya on the sour milk smell - it never wants to go away.  Many decades ago I left a gallon of milk in the trunk of my car...it blew up and I think I smelled that milk forEVER!


----------



## Latestarter

Well, I don't know about most of y'all, but every time I have a doctor's appt I have to fast at least 12 hours prior so they can do blood tests and such. Maybe Cowboy needs a 24 hour fast before travel next time...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Maybe so!


----------



## Baymule

I would call that a CORNY trip!


----------



## Southern by choice

Oh Bay- you did


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh no she didn't - oh yes she did!  

But, I am pleased to announce that Lysol Hawaiian Essence (or something like that) is the greatest product around.  DH and I went to see "SULLY" yesterday, took my truck, and absolutely NO lingering smell.  (Great movie, by the way!)  So, either the product is wonderful or the truck sitting closed up in our heat just burned the smell away, lol!


----------



## Baymule

My bet is on the scorching heat that scared the heebeejeebees outa that corny-crappy-dog-flung-poo-doo.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I know you're right about that.  It was so hot here today....   And, we didn't butcher them dang chickens yet either.

But, Cowboy learned a new trick - he can jump fences...  The BIG fences, not just the itty bitty hog panels.  Yay!  

I may see electric fence in my future...


----------



## Baymule

Trip is a "yard dog" now because he decided to be King of the Universe, he can only do it from the center of the driveway. He can't get over tight, stretched wire, but I have a section of temporary wire that he belly flops on and scrambles over. I have a surprise coming up for him......


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Thankfully, he doesn't randomly jump and run...he jumped when I called him because he was too lazy to run around the long way, lol.  Doofus!


----------



## Southern by choice

frustratedearthmother said:


> Thankfully, he doesn't randomly jump and run...he jumped when I called him because he was too lazy to run around the long way, lol.  Doofus!





Did you see our video of Pete? 
Pete will not go over any fence but when we call him from another field he will come through and over the barn gate. 
He is a smart dog.

I think Cowboy is going to be a smart dog too!


----------



## Latestarter

Agreed, was going to say... sounds pretty smart to me. Why take the long way around? Momma called, and I wanna get there the fastest way I can!


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## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy, Cowboy, Cowboy... don't know what to think about him sometimes, lol.  He's really feeling his oats these days.  Mostly because the temp has dropped about 20 degrees and he's loving it.  Well, we're ALL loving it!

Remember a post or so ago when I explained that he's jumping one fence and then jumping another fence to reach his feeding spot faster.  Well, what I didn't explain is that when he jumps the first fence he's totally free...out of any of the perimeter property fences and free to the world at that point.  When he jumps back in he's fine.  At first, that's all he did.  The next time he did it he didn't jump back in.  I had to send Gracie to get him.  He loves her and will follow her anywhere and she has perfect recall.

But, I can't have him jumping the fence.  Don't mind him jumping interior fences, but can't go over a perimeter fence... nope...just not cool.  He did it again when DH was feeding for me (injured my foot).  Cowboy doesn't listen to DH because he just doesn't spend that much time with him.  So, Cowboy is wearing a shock collar now.      He has only felt it twice.   The first time when I "set him up" by taking Gracie in the pasture with me....and then bringing her out.  Cowboy will follow her anywhere and he tried to follow her out of that pen by jumping the fence.  The first instant he reared up on his back legs and touched that fence - he got zapped.  I hated it - but - he hasn't done it since.

Just by chance I was outside the next morning and he trapped a chicken against the barn wall and put his paw on him...didn't bite the chicken but wouldn't let him go... he got zapped.

Now I have a dilemma that I hope SBC will chime in on.  I saw him chase a goat for the very first time today.  I didn't zap him.  I would rather err on the side of caution than zap him when he doesn't deserve it.  He has a favorite goat - an older doe.  He loves her!  Today that old doe was walking across the barnyard, heading for the barn when another goat took a pot shot at his old doe and rammed her.  Cowboy stopped what he was doing and just watched until the doe rammed his favorite again...  He could NOT stand it and he chased the 'rammer' away from "his" doe.  I didn't zap him, but I'm not sure if I should've....   He was being protective - but he was chasing a goat... ARGH!

Edited to add:  it was obvious after the initial lunge and the first few strides of chasing the "bad" goat the Cowboy was having too much fun with the chase.


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## Southern by choice

frustratedearthmother said:


> Now I have a dilemma that I hope SBC will chime in on. I saw him chase a goat for the very first time today. I didn't zap him. I would rather err on the side of caution than zap him when he doesn't deserve it. He has a favorite goat - an older doe. He loves her! Today that old doe was walking across the barnyard, heading for the barn when another goat took a pot shot at his old doe and rammed her. Cowboy stopped what he was doing and just watched until the doe rammed his favorite again... He could NOT stand it and he chased the 'rammer' away from "his" doe. I didn't zap him, but I'm not sure if I should've.... He was being protective - but he was chasing a goat... ARGH!
> 
> Edited to add: it was obvious after the initial lunge and the first few strides of chasing the "bad" goat the Cowboy was having too much fun with the chase.



Very glad you did not zap him. Many LGD's will keep the peace and this is often a very good trait. It can save the life of your goat(s).
The second part - where afterwards he was having too much fun.... that is where I think a verbal command of "THAT's ENOUGH" would have sufficed. If after the verbal it continued then zap if you must.

Of course you know I am not a fan of shock collars.
 I do however believe some people are responsible (VERY FEW HOWEVER) and I think you would fall into the category of enough experience and ability to know when and how to use a collar in a responsible way. 

Not sure if you ever saw my post about Callie saving "Moses" life.
Moses is our Kiko herdsire. He would not be here today if Callie had not intervened.

Cowboy seems to show some really great traits. Sometimes these pups just need to know where that line is.


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## frustratedearthmother

Whew.... thanks, SBC.

  I truly am NOT a fan of a shock collar either.  Only because of the fence jumping, which as I said, leaves him free to roam the world, did I decide to use it.  Cowboy is not a great 'listener'.  Or maybe I should say he's not a "fast" responder to a verbal command.  But, when he was chasing the doe I did yell at him, and after a couple seconds he did stop....gave me that "what?" look and started being wonderful again.

He's almost 6 months old and is really coming out of puppyhood and getting into the teenage type of behavior.  For the most part, he's still wonderful and has done very little that actually worries me.  He even took on the pigs the other day when he thought they were pestering me too much.  My pigs are very friendly and somewhat catlike - they MUST rub themselves on me and it gets very annoying when they are covered with mud.  They got a little too close yesterday and I fussed at them.   Cowboy heard me fussing (ok, yelling) at them and decided they were too close and he charged up between them and me.  They moved, lol.  He has discovered his voice and can sound quite ferocious!

He's still a young'un and he's got a lot of growing up to do, but he's a dear and I'm totally smitten with him!


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## Southern by choice

LOVE a TOLI!  
I really need to do a post about..

"The Helpful Anatolian"

Truly they are super smart and so observant they want to "help".
Our Toli/pyr pups ( most of them) are more "Toli" than Pyr.


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## babsbag

I love reading about Cowboy, I can tell he is well on his way to being a great LGD. Mia is with the goats all day every day now, but she has one little kid that she loves a little too much (as in kid is a good playmate...not). When I'm not in the vicinity they get separated but the rest of the goats she is good with.  I showed my DH a picture of Cowboy and he decided that Mia needs to make a airplane trip for a conjugal visit.   I can't believe how much they look alike.


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## frustratedearthmother

@babsbag    Glad to hear that Mia is coming along, lol.  I think it's even more rewarding when they've been a little challenging and then they start to "get" it and fulfill their role in life.



babsbag said:


> Mia needs to make a airplane trip for a conjugal visit.


Ya know, I need to talk to Cowboy's breeder because I think, maybe, one of Cowboy's siblings may be in CA. That would be cool!  I'll try to remember to contact her this week.

Cowboy never fails to bring a smile to my face.  He is so cool!  I could just smooch him every time he gives me that "what" look?  He looks just like a kid whose been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Only within this last week has he really been using his voice and oh wow.  If I were sneaking around in the dark and heard that bark/snarl I would high-tail it out of the area as fast as I could.  When he was running to get between me and the pigs,  I nearly fell OVER!  He sounded absolutely FEROCIOUS.  He's usually such a goofus that to see him so serious about moving those pigs away from me was just phenomenal.

SBC you are soooo right about him wanting to "help" with everything.  I can't get my hands on a goat without him being right under my/their feet.  If I'm worming or giving anything orally, he tries to lick it right out of their mouth, lol.  I had to tie him up the other day when I was doling out Replamin to some of the does.  He was absolutely distraught that he couldn't help.

Maddie isn't quite as 'hands-on' with her goats as Cowboy is.  She tends to guard from a distance.  If there's a problem she is right there handling it, and she can be quite gentle and loving - like the time a kidding doe was having a problem.  But, Cowboy is right up in the middle of everything the goats do.  I think they are turning into quite a team.


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## babsbag

That would be great to see if there is a relative out here. I really don't have any dog helpers but I ALWAYS have another goat helper so I'm good.    It is truly rewarding to watch them grow up successfully.


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## frustratedearthmother

Southern by choice said:


> I really need to do a post about..
> 
> "The Helpful Anatolian"


   yes, you do!


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## NH homesteader

This site has totally convinced me I want an Anatolian. Pyrenees are not my (and my family and my farm's)  style.


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## frustratedearthmother

I took off the shock collar.  So, instead of jumping a fence today - he simply jumped through the barn window to get from one area to the other, lol.  Imagine my surprise when I'm behind the barn and he comes flying through the window, lol!  Thank goodness it was OPEN!


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## frustratedearthmother

NH homesteader said:


> This site has totally convinced me I want an Anatolian. Pyrenees are not my (and my family and my farm's) style.



I don't think you can go wrong.  Now - I've gotta say that I looove my Maddie girl (the pyr), but there is a world of difference in the way my two work.    Best part of it all - is that they both have the same end objective - they just go about accomplishing it in a different way.


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## NH homesteader

That is very cool to have two dogs with different styles.  As he gets older you'll have quite the team! 

I know all dogs can be barkers but Pyrenees are pretty bad. And my inside dogs are dumb and would bark back all the time!  I couldn't handle it. We have one down the  road that barks all night long.  They'd probably have bark battles all night!


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## Southern by choice

NH homesteader said:


> This site has totally convinced me I want an Anatolian. Pyrenees are not my (and my family and my farm's)  style.





frustratedearthmother said:


> I don't think you can go wrong.  Now - I've gotta say that I looove my Maddie girl (the pyr), but there is a world of difference in the way my two work.    Best part of it all - is that they both have the same end objective - they just go about accomplishing it in a different way.





NH homesteader said:


> That is very cool to have two dogs with different styles.  As he gets older you'll have quite the team!
> 
> I know all dogs can be barkers but Pyrenees are pretty bad. And my inside dogs are dumb and would bark back all the time!  I couldn't handle it. We have one down the  road that barks all night long.  They'd probably have bark battles all night!


Truly this is why I have LOVED this litter from Callie/D -Anatolian/Pyr They truly have been exceptional.

I also think dogs reach their potential by what their owners put into them. Great dogs are developed.

As far as barking. Our pyrs have NEVER been incessant barkers. We have had to work more with the Toli's than our pyrs. The Toli/Pyr crosses haven't been too bad.

@NH homesteader - All our Pyrs are far more OBEDIENT than ANY of our Toli's. 

FEM- LOL ... you know how Pete will go over if we call him right? Well 6 months or so ago (maybe longer) when Silver was out front the shutters to the barn were open. I was out front doing something with the goats Silver was IN the barn. From a dead standstill he went BOOOIIINGGG right over the window opening 4FT high. He reminded me of Tigger from Winnie the Pooh. 

I was a little nervous moving Silver to a back field where he couldn't see anything and we couldn't see him.... I thought for sure I might deal with him getting out. 
Not once has he even tried. And he could go over the 4ft fencing in a second. 
Gotta say... I am so glad he has never tried... and a little surprised to tell ya the truth. 

Callie when she is serious has a fierce bark. Tiggs...  sounds like his nuts are in a vice.  As far as bark the deeeeeeep guttural sound of our Pyrs are way more intimidating.

Today we had to bring "Beast" up from his field to pen breed our Kiko Doe. Tiggs NEVER wants to come out of his field. OM Goodness... he actually TRIED to get past us getting out of the gate. He and Callie both! He was so distraught at us taking Beast out. I do wonder if because the last time we took one of his bucks away the buck didn't come back. He was very upset about that. Maybe he thought Beast was being taken away too.


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## babsbag

@NH homesteader , they are all different and not all Pyrs bark.  I have Francis who is a 75/25 Pyr Toli cross and he is not a barker at all. I also have Sigueme that is a messed up mix of LGDs... Anatolian, Pyrenees, Ovcharka, Akbash...she is not a barker either.  Before Francis I had a Pyr/Maremma that barked at falling stars, and falling leaves, and everything in between. He drove us all crazy. Unfortunately there is no way to know what you will get until you get them.  I would just plan on puppyhood during good weather so you can spend time outside with them at night if needed. Sometimes they just need to be told that it is all ok.


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## NH homesteader

So...  Maybe I need one of each to compare?


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## frustratedearthmother

NH homesteader said:


> So... Maybe I need one of each to compare?



Heck yea!


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## babsbag

@NH homesteader I think that that is a great idea. I don't know how much land you have but two is seriously better than one and two pups at the same time can be a really good thing. Boy/girl team.


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## NH homesteader

We have 5 acres but permission to use the adjoining 35 for goats and someday sheep.  My parents don't love the pigs so I wouldn't use it to expand their territory lol. 

It'll be a while before we are ready to take it on,  particularly because I want to get two instead of just one. But right now I'm limited to where I will put up fencing because I won't put them where I can't see them until there's a dog out there. The coyotes avoid the yard but I hear them nearby all the time.


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## Baymule

I busted out laughing at Cowboy! He is so funny, I know he is a joy in your life.


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## frustratedearthmother

He is truly a clown, lol.  But, he learned a hard lesson today!  Do NOT try to steal the goat food when the horses are trying to steal the goat food.  Pow!

He's tough though.. he shook it off and gave the horses one of those "if looks could kill" kinda looks!


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## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy has done it again.  He has just floored me with his devotion and dedication to "HIS" old doe.  I have a bench sitting at an angle in a corner of the barn.  Some of the goats, the small ones, the old ones, or the ones who just don't want to be social tend to use that corner to keep away from some of the other critters.  Today  Cowboy's old doe (might as well call her HIS doe - because she is, lol) was back in the corner.  It was HOT today and she was laying in the shade while the other goats were out in the pasture.  Cowboy was up in the yard last night and most of the day today because yesterday when I got home from work he was OUT.  He was hanging out at the gate - hadn't gone anywhere but still, he was OUT.   GRRRRR!  So, he spent the night in the back yard with Gracie.  He loves Gracie but he would rather have been with his goats.  I digress...

So, after I added two feet of wire to the top of the gate...ugh...I put him back in the pasture and he went to check on his doe.  I take the occasional opportunity to give her some extra feed when I catch her alone so that she doesn't have any competition.  I slipped her a bowl of feed in the corner, behind the bench.  Should have worked out well, but I forgot the horses were up.  A couple minutes later I hear the most vicious sounds coming from Cowboy.  I am running out there as fast as my injured foot will let me and I see Cowboy standing on top of the bench...hackles raised and snarling to beat the band at the horses who are trying to steal HIS goat's food.  You've gotta understand that this dog will let the chickens steal his feed right out of his bowl while he's eating...he even shares the goat feed at feeding time with NO aggression whatsoever. 

He is not keen on the horses at all and usually gives them a wide berth but not this time -  he was standing up to them - keeping himself between them and his goat.  And, stand his ground he did!   I've never seen the horses back down, not even to Maddie who doesn't share her food with anyone, but they did today!    I'm so proud of him I could just spit, lol! 

I think he's a keeper!


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## Southern by choice

Don't you just love it!
Callie has always been this way with her "Moses".
Moses is our Kiko buck and he loves Callie as much as she loves him. He stands over her and watches out for her in the day when she is sleeping.


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## babsbag

Don't you love it when it just works?


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## Baymule

What a fantastic day for Cowboy and you. I know you are so proud of him and with good reason. I love it! I am a Cowboy fan and I don't mean football!


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## frustratedearthmother

He just floors me sometimes.  As I mentioned before - the horses have ruled the pasture forever.  When Cowboy was up on the bench defending his goat was the ONLY time I've ever seen the horses back down.  Knowing horses - I'm sure it was because Cowboy was up on the bench and must have appeared HUGE to the little horses.  So....do dogs think?

This morning I'm feeding, in the dark, and I hear Cowboy doing his mad dog snarl at the horses.  I have a headlight on my head so I swing around to where Cowboy and the horses are and I see him up on his back legs and lunging at the horses sounding for all the world like a werewolf on the prowl, lol.  This dog has figured out, at 6 months of age, that being bigger than the horses is something they respect.


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## Ferguson K

When I hear horse, my thoughts go immediately to my giant thoroughbreds and I'm trying to figure out how BIG he is. Then I remembered you have mini's.


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## frustratedearthmother

Yes, lol. I have the little ones!


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## babsbag

That would be one BIG LGD  

Are you trying to get him used to the horses? Protecting HIS goat is great but I am sure you don't want him aggressive towards the horses. He may be almost as big as they are some day. Just curious what your plans are regarding their relationship.


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## frustratedearthmother

At this point - he has only shown aggression towards the horses when they are trying to steal food from the goats....and I'm ok with that.  And, so far it's only threats...no contact.

If it looks like its getting out of hand (because he IS discovering himself, lol) I'll definitely address it then.  So far, the good still outweighs the bad.

His biggest mistake up to this point is that he doesn't want to be led by his collar.  He's perfect on a leash, but there's something about grabbing his collar that really annoys him.  DH was trying to lead him the other day and first he just flopped over on the ground - but when DH tried to get him to stand up he put his mouth on DH's hand.  That's a BIG NO NO as far as I'm concerned.  He didn't apply any pressure - but it was clear that he was expressing his displeasure. 

DH is all about being "friends" with him so I took over.  Cowboy did the same thing with me.  The difference, however, is that the minute his teeth touched my skin he got a very firm correction....like as a smack to the muzzle to move his mouth off of my hand, pushed down to the ground, muzzle held down and got a thorough chewing out.  Lather, rinse, repeat.  All the while he's looking at me with his big puppy dog eyes and that "what did I do wrong?" look.

He tried it again with DH last night and DH copied my behavior and corrected him.   This morning he was perfect and followed with just a light touch on his collar.  I think he gets it now, and he's a pretty smart fella so I don't think this will be a big issue.


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## babsbag

Mia tries to just stay out of reach when I go to grab her collar. I think that there were too many times that I reeled her in by that collar and gave her a good chewing out that she is now "collar shy".  Once I do grab it she is fine, but she doesn't want to get caught in the first place. My other dogs don't even wear collars.


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## Baymule

Haha, I had some of those "collar moments" with Trip. Patience, LGD Mommies.....patience.


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## frustratedearthmother

I have patience with everything except teeth!  Especially since he started that behavior with DH - cuz he don't know nothing 'bout disciplining no dogs.  He was sweet talking him while his hand was enveloped in Cowboy's mouth, GRRRRR!   This evening he was Mr. Perfect!


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## Southern by choice

Wow!
Never had any of my dogs do that BUT my "grand-puppy" that is currently living with us..  BIG SIGH HERE... has really had no great instruction and her history may have played a part in it but she did that to me ONCE.  She doesn't want anyone to grab her collar, her toy, her anything. She doesn't want anyone in her face either. 
So.... I have been working with her. I can do all those things to her but no one else can... yet.  She has turned into my babygirl though and I LOVE her. Big downside is that she has now become a "protector" . Like I don't have enough freaking guardians. 
She is a smart dog but has really been difficult in teaching her the rules apply across the board- not just with me.

It has to be the Toli! I swear they are nuts about what is theirs. Maybe Cowboy will learn the horses are his too. 
Blue and Pete were "interesting " this morning... I'll have to post about it.

BTW- I LOVE your BUCK! I saw his pic in POW thread.
How big is he? How tall? Just LOVE him!


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## frustratedearthmother

I'm actually glad he's keeping the horses away from the goats because  the horses can be a little toooooo pushy with the goats over grain.  He's fine with them any other time - in fact, he gives them a very wide berth any other time and he doesn't push them away from the hay at all...just the feed.

Can't wait to hear about Blue and Pete!

Grand puppies - whatcha gonna do?


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## Mike CHS

I think most working dogs learn pretty fast that a collar is NOT their friend.  

Our Border Collie still has it in his head that when sheep move to fast he still thinks they are getting away and lunges at them.  We wrap the long lead around our dogs chest and then snap it on the collar so we can get a whole lot more stopping leverage since it is long enough to step on without hurting them.


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## frustratedearthmother

Mike CHS said:


> I think most working dogs learn pretty fast that a collar is NOT their friend.



I believe you are absolutely right about that!


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## Baymule

Grand puppies.... Our daughter's first Dachshund was a mini, red female. We called her our Grand-Dog-Ter. Her next was a mini black and tan male, we called him our Grand-Dox-Son.


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## Ferguson K




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## frustratedearthmother

Southern by choice said:


> BTW- I LOVE your BUCK! I saw his pic in POW thread.
> How big is he? How tall? Just LOVE him!



Sorry so slow to answer, I swear I didn't ignore your question!  My smarty pants answer would be he's bigger than a Pygmy and smaller than a Nubian, lol.         But, now I'm curious too and I don't want to lie, so I'm going to try to get a real measurement this weekend.   (and it's a BIG sacrifice on my part because right now he's nowhere near as clean as he is in that pic - and he stinks to high heaven!)


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## Latestarter




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## Southern by choice

Aww thanks. 
So he is a Kinder Buck...  
So... just thinkin' aloud here....

1) Have Nubian and will have 3-4 more within 2 years
2) I just am obsessed with have a little Pygmy one day.


Not sayin I will ever do kinders but....

BTW- got a few pics of the big lugs today (dogs)


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## babsbag

Mia spent the day with ALL of the goats, even the youngest kids that were born in June and she was perfect.   I am thrilled that the play stage might actually be over (at least until March when I start kidding )   She seems to really enjoy taking the herd out to browse, she is much more attentive than the adult LGDs and never lets them go alone.


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## Baymule

*YAY MIA!!!!!*


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## frustratedearthmother

You go MIA!  So happy to hear that!!

@Southern by choice - he's approximately 30 inches and 150 lbs, (f you believe weight tapes are accurate).The Kinder breed standard says maximum for buck should be 28 inches and 135 lbs.....oops!   But, he's F1 ...


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## Goat Whisperer

Well loved?


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## frustratedearthmother

Goat Whisperer said:


> Well loved?


But, of course, lol!


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## Southern by choice

Wow. He is a big boy! What is his percentage?


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## frustratedearthmother

He's first generation so he's 50%Pygmy/50%Nubian.  Funny thing was that his mom was my smallest Nubian doe and his dad was a good sized Pygmy buck...not over standard ...but a really bulky pygmy.  Just bred him to a couple of Kinder does on Tuesday - really looking forward to those babies!


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## frustratedearthmother

Here I go again...bragging on my dogs!  (sorry, I just can't help it)   Was talking to a neighbor on Sunday.  Her son lives next door to me and she's one more house down.  She's retired and has more at home time than me.  (I'm jealous)  But, she came to tell me that she's been watching my dogs and goats.  (They ARE entertaining, lol!)  

Now, this woman knows zippo, nada, nothing about a LGD - but she stands at my fence and tells me that she's noticed my big white dog lays up on the trailer "watching" everything that goes on...and that my big brown dog is always out "patrolling" the area with the goats.  She said that he doesn't want anything near his goats and that if they are too close to the fence line that I share with the folks behind me and their horses (they have BIG horses) come to the fence that he rushes the fence like a beast trying to keep them away from the goats.  How cool is that?!   They are actually working even when I'm not watching.  Just like they're supposed to be.   Then she wanted to know how I trained them to do that, lol.  It would be nice if I could take credit for it.

On another note...Cowboy is impressing me with his intuitiveness and even his concern for ME.  I've been struggling with an injured foot for awhile now and he's decided to attach himself to me whenever I'm outside.  This morning he walked right beside me while I was feeding in the dark.  Stupid chickens always want to walk right in the path of my headlight so they're always underfoot and a real tripping hazard for me.  Not this morning....Cowboy cleared the path for me while never leaving my side.  Chickens respond really well to his snarling! 

I need to get new pics.  He's now, at barely 7 months, officially taller than Maddie and can go over any fence on the place.  But, thankfully he seems to have learned his lesson about going over the perimeter fence.   Just pleased as punch with him.


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## Southern by choice

not even my dog but I couldn't be happier 

No, you didn't train him to do that but IMO YOU allowed him to grow into and be what he is! You didn't try to micro manage him, didn't try to make him something he isn't, but most importantly you let him "grow" and become your partner! 

Makes my heart do the happy dance!


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## babsbag

What a good boy and it is always nice to get praise on "our children".   Mia is going through her first heat and I am totally pleased with her behavior while living in my back yard, I was expecting a unholy terror.  Really wish Cowboy was closer in about 6 months from now.  I have Francis to breed her to but there is just something about Cowboy...  

I wasn't sure I wanted puppies from her; her puppy hood was a nightmare, but she has very good patrolling instincts and she stays with the goats more than my other two, she never lets the goats go out to graze alone. I think if she had been socialized as a pup and taught NO it would have made a world of difference. 

The breeder that was raising Rita said she never let the puppies play with her with their mouths, and I could tell that. Very little teeth interaction in playing; it was nice.   Wish Mia had had that same correction.


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## frustratedearthmother

Southern by choice said:


> No, you didn't train him to do that but IMO YOU allowed him to grow into and be what he is! You didn't try to micro manage him, didn't try to make him something he isn't, but most importantly you let him "grow" and become your partner!


Ahhhh, thanks!  I consider that high praise coming from you.  




babsbag said:


> there is just something about Cowboy...


I agree, there really is! 

I have GOT to get pics...silly thing just won't stay far enough away from me so I can get some!


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## Baymule

We want Pictures!!! What good dogs! You neighbor lady confirmed what you hoped for, but didn't know for sure. How wonderful to know Cowboy is on the job when you AREN'T looking! 

@babsbag you ought to post pictures of Mia too.....just sayin'.......


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## frustratedearthmother

I know, I know!  I'm a terrible mommy...   I need to get the camera out instead of my phone cuz they deserve so much better than a cruddy camera phone!


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## Southern by choice

It is impossible to get pics! I wish I had a real camera. We broke so many my DH said he would get me a decent phone and that would do.
It doesn't "do".


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## frustratedearthmother

Absolutely agree!  In fact, I snapped a few today while he and Maddie were trying to kill each other.  (what is in the air with the dog fights this week?)  Lots of snarling and carrying on and surprise of surprises - he put Maddie on her back!  I was trying to get pics while I was giving it a minute to calm down.  Gotta say that a thrown bucket works pretty good at breaking up the fight!   But, the pics were nothing but a blur...ugh.  Thankfully, no blood spilled - just a lot of slobber, lol!


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## Southern by choice

frustratedearthmother said:


> Gotta say that a thrown bucket works pretty good at breaking up the fight!



 
Sorry that I am laughing but that must of been a cussing out and not a fight. LOL  

I find the males tolerate a good bit from the bossy females but once they have had enough they will let a female know just who is more powerful. well... except Callie  The world's gentlest dog but don't challenge her. Well Amy too LOL.


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## Latestarter

Have seen a picture of Amy "angry" at turkeys... I wouldn't challenger her! Hell no!


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> Have seen a picture of Amy "angry" at turkeys... I wouldn't challenger her! Hell no!



  I know exactly what picture you are talking about! I know right. That girl is a mess! She is a real lovebug... to us


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Southern by choice said:


> Sorry that I am laughing but that must of been a cussing out and not a fight. LOL



Yea, by the time I threw the bucket I'd spent a minute or so trying to get pics, and then when Cowboy put Maddie on her back I was all fumble fingers trying to get through the stupid gate!  At that point it was ME doing the cussing!  So, I threw the bucket, lol.  Fight had already concluded at that point.  But - DANG...to see two of those beasts go at each other was a lesson in just how ferocious they truly can be - and like you said - this wasn't even a "FIGHT to the DEATH" kinda fight.   Sheesh!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy has more critters to guard!  We have AGH piglets.  Eight itty bitty bacon bits!  She had eight live healthy ones, but there was one dead when I found 'em.  I gave that one to Maddie to dispose of.   Later, when I was formally introducing the babies to Cowboy and Maddie and held one out to her, she opened her mouth like I was giving her another snack, lol!  NO Maddie!

But, the look on Cowboys face!    I held one out to him and I swear he had cartoon eyes when he first sniffed 'em.  Wide eyed and confused!  I've never seen him (or any other dog) with such a perplexed look on his face.  Like... do I eat 'em or guard 'em?   But, he figured it out and now is nonchalant about them being around. 

Aren't they just the cutest little things?


----------



## animalmom

Looks like a good mama.  I'd bet money, if I was a betting woman, that God made all babies so dog gone adorable just to insure we wanted to have more of them.  Your little "bacon bits" are just precious.


----------



## babsbag

"bacon bits"    Aren't they the cutest things. Glad that Cowboy is being a good boy,   I am sure that Mia would eat them, no questions asked.


----------



## Southern by choice

Callie and Tiggs and I think all the toli/pyrs would be like CHOMP first ASK later. 

The Pyrs would be like UMMMMMMMMMMM what is it and and I suppose to take care of that thing? 

They are soooo tiny!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

UPDATE:   As chill as Cowboy has been with them the last couple of days ...   He walked into the barn area where mama pig has her stall.  She wasn't so happy he was in there so she stood up an gave him "the eye".  He's still doing his doofus dog act and just looking at her UNTIL I walked in and mama pig, thinking I have some feed, walked closer to the front of her pen and Cowboy had a pure mad dog hissy fit!  He did NOT like that pig getting any closer to me and literally stepped between me and her, all the time pushing me back while snarling and standing his ground at mama pig.  It was awesome to behold!  Now, truly, mama pig was not threatening me, but Cowboy didn't like that she took a step towards me and he told her so!

On another note - yesterday morning I woke up to dogs barking.  DH gives me this mumbled "sounds like the dogs are barking from the front yard"  ... GRRRRR.... I get dressed in record time and run (as fast as my bum foot will let me) downstairs and sure enough Cowboy is out of the pasture.  That stinker has learned to jump the fence in a different area.  Also noticed he's limping a bit on his left front.  Probably landed wonky.  Watched him most of the day yesterday and he limped less and less as the day went on.  Can't see a limp today at all....but  he's wearing the shock collar again.  UGH!


----------



## Southern by choice

I like that!

We never scold the dogs when they do things like this. 
You just never now when a goat, a pig, a sheep may get nasty and I want my dogs looking out for me.


----------



## NH homesteader

I am learning a lot from reading this thread and @Southern by choice 's responses in "real time" concerning training issues.  It will help me immensely between now and when I get a LGD (2 years or more,  I've got time to learn!)


----------



## luvmypets

Such cute piggies


----------



## frustratedearthmother

My first reaction was to want to fuss at him for snarling at the pig, but it only took a half a second until I realized what he was doing.  I stepped back out of the area, he came with me and I praised him well.  I learned by watching him with the mini horses that he actually uses his power at the right time - without becoming overly pushy with any of the animals.  He is fierce when the horses try to eat the goats food, but he will lay down and relax around them at other times.  He's just awesome, lol, and I'm not the least bit  prejudiced!

The first Pyr I ever had literally saved me from serious injury, or worse, from a wild pig, so I appreciate his protectiveness.  Ya know, ya just have to trust these dogs.   Their instincts and heritage are just amazing when you learn to see it, and appreciate it.


----------



## Baymule

What cute little piggies! Adorable! How funny that Cowboy protected you from mamma pig. He sure is growing into an awesome dog. I know you are proud of him. What about more pictures of our favorite mischievous boy?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

He's not a baby anymore....


----------



## TAH

I LOVE HIS COLORING

AND THOSE EYES ARE JUST GORGEOUS

.


----------



## Mini Horses

Glad to see piggies next to mom....puts them into perspective.  Yep, your gal looks like mine.  Those short legs make for some dirty nipples .   Mine are so full that they look like a Jersey cow walking away from you....

So, giving Maddie the DOA, will she now think "snack time" when she's around them?   Just seems like that --- if dissected, maybe not.   IDK.   I'd have dug a hole -- because of that concern


----------



## Baymule

What a handsome dog he has become!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Mini Horses said:


> So, giving Maddie the DOA, will she now think "snack time" when she's around them?




Maddie has always been the "clean up" crew around here.    Chickens are her fav, lol.   I don't think she'd kill a chicken if her life depended on it, but if it gets dead on it's own, it's fair game!  She won't eat a fresh dead chicken...she prefers to carry it around and guard it for a couple of days before she "disposes" of it. (or maybe she just likes her meat well aged - yuck)  I think there is something within the LGD that doesn't want any "bait" for predators laying around - so Maddie takes that job seriously.

When I first got the pigs early this year (before I even had Cowboy) the mama pig had two little ones that were only 12 days old.  Maddie  accepted the pigs into her fold just like any other critter we have around here.  But, as they got older and bigger and I let them free range in the pasture - she was very picky about the pigs getting near any of the young goats.

As much as I talk about Cowboy  (because he's awesome, lol) Maddie has had a big hand in his training.  He's got a great mentor in her and they have bonded into a great team!


----------



## Bruce




----------



## Mike CHS

frustratedearthmother said:


> As much as I talk about Cowboy  (because he's awesome, lol) Maddie has had a big hand in his training.  He's got a great mentor in her and they have bonded into a great team!



You wouldn't want to loan Maddie out for a month or two would you????


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Mike CHS said:


> You wouldn't want to loan Maddie out for a month or two would you????



I truly wish I could clone her!   She IS awesome.


----------



## Southern by choice

I couldn't agree more. A strong good dog in the field is so important.
When the Toli pups came along it was Chunk who bore the burden. He was only 8 months old yet he is the one responsible for the teaching of the pups. 
Callie was in and out with the pups. As her pups could do no wrong in her eyes it was truly a balancing act. The pups also needed their autonomy and keeping them constantly with Callie they would not have developed into their true selves. Callie also played favorites. Most momma dogs do... but it can lead to issues when they do that so she was in for a period of time and out. Callie still knows HER puppies. They will be 2 in Jan. 

Chunk was thrust into a role at a young age and handled it well, but it is interesting because he kind of lost his puppiness too early. He was always mature well beyond his age. I love my boy. He is a wonderful dog. He is my boy.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

He just won't stand still (unless he's eating) for a good pic - but hasn't he turned into quite the handsome fella?  Handsome, but naughty.  Been over the fence a LOT lately... sigh.  After our 6+ inches of rain the place he's standing is now underwater.  UGH.


----------



## Baymule

He has grown!! What a handsome boy, I love his brindle color.


----------



## Bruce

Seems like you need a strand of hotwire above the fence.


----------



## NH homesteader

He's beautiful!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> Seems like you need a strand of hotwire above the fence.


It is a looming possibility, for sure.  Ugh!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Handsome boy!


----------



## Mini Horses

BIG & handsome.   Love that you have different colored LGDs as we both know it's hard to distinguish "who's who" when all one color  (thinking white pyrs...and black pigs)   and you are seeing a flash run by.


----------



## Southern by choice

Tiggs is the same color just without the black mask. He lives in the woods with the Kikos. I have the same problem with getting pics of him.
The big thing is because he lives in the woods he blends! I swear you can't see that dog. Thankfully he doesn't go over fences. Do you have the same problem? Not being able to see Cowboy? Tiggs blends with everything!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

If he's out in the pasture or in the trees around the back pond he's darn near invisible, lol.  And, if he's among some of the bigger goats I can usually only see his tail sticking up!


----------



## Baymule

Tiggs and Cowboy are wearing their camouflage!!


----------



## babsbag

Cowboy is a big boy, he probably just steps over the fence.  I have hot wire at the top of mine and that does the deed quite well. Mia bumped the low strand the other day and you would have thought she was dying. Poor baby.

Mia is the same with blending in. In the summer when the grass is brown she is truly stealth. That brindle coloring is very good camouflage.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

He's so funny.  The short ones (like hog panels) he just flies over so pretty - the taller ones (like stock panels) he climbs like a ladder....  Sometimes I hate smart dogs, lol!

Gonna have to start reading the posts on hot wire...sigh.  If I can catch him in the act with the shock collar he is "good" for awhile.


----------



## babsbag

Hot wire is pretty easy when you do it right the first time. I used the braided wire from TSC as it is easy to install taut, easy to cut, easy to repair, and I hate the wire. The stuff is supposed to be temporary but it lasts at least 5 years with no problems if you buy the more expensive stuff.  I use DC charges and run them off of a car battery with a solar panel on one to keep the battery charged and the other one I just take the battery to the charger once a week. I used to have two batteries and I would just swap them but one ended up on the tractor.  Funny how that happens. 

And of course the ground rod, the most important part. We had three but when I moved the barn we only put in one. Will get more in after water lines are done.  

Have fun...you can do this.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

My boy, my boy...

We are still having a battle of wits over keeping this big lug in the fence.  He NEVER goes over the fence when I'm home anymore - he's figured out how to be super sneaky!  What's worse is that he's now getting on the road and 'greeting' folks who are walking.  We live on a dead-end road and with school out there is a lot of activity with folks walking/exercising/bike riding.   Cowboy has decided to be the road 'greeter'.  So far he's accepting of the human traffic - but not so friendly toward any other dog on "his" road.

Sooooo, I spent alllll day today adding 16 inches to the top of the fence line in the front of the pasture.  I was ready to move straight to an electric fence, but the area he's breaching is on my neighbors property.  My neighbor lets me use several acres of his property.  They have small children and their children love to go to the fence and watch the critters - so I'm trying very had not to electrify his property!   However, if this doesn't do it  - that will be the next step.

Most of the time I couldn't be happier with this guy!  He is so intuitive.  He walks slowly beside me in case I need to lean on him because of my bad foot.  He will NOT let the big pigs get near me!  He truly has captured my heart.  But.... He's 8 1/2 months old and yesterday I saw him chasing goats (or maybe just bringing them in from pasture).   If I would have been out there when this happened (instead of watching from an upstairs window) I would have chastised him for his impatience.  But, since I have a WONDERFUL trainer that lives in the pasture with Cowboy (I'm talking about super LGD Maddie) I didn't need to lift a finger to discipline Cowboy for his transgressions.  Maddie came roaring around the corner and literally tackled her protégé and told him in no uncertain terms that chasing the goats is not allowed!  I love her!

Also, in the form of bad news I have a doeling who is injured.  I was feeding just a while ago and noticed that she wasn't coming up to feed.  It was darn near dark so I couldn't really see what was wrong until I got close to her.  She's holding up her left rear and won't take ANY weight on it so I snatched her up and took her into the milk room and put her on the stanchion.  She is holding it up and when she moves I can see movement in that leg where there should NOT be movement.  I put in a quick call to the vet - but of course it's after hours.  Vet was pretty quick calling me back....said to splint it and bring her in first thing in the morning.     Sometimes I think he has TOO much faith in my abilities, lol.  I am NOT an orthopedist!  And, I don't think in all my years of "goating" that I've ever had a broken leg in a goat.  Of course, this may not be broken, but my guess is that it is.

I went ahead and gave her some probiotics just because and a bit of banamine to hold her 'til morning.  She's in a crate and seems to be fairly comfortable.  She at least started touching it to the ground after I splinted it.  And food is still very important to her, lol!  Of course its my very favorite doeling from this spring... geeze.   AND, to make things even better we're supposed to go out of town tomorrow.  But, at least Vet said he'd be happy to keep her if need be while I'm gone.

Definitely hoping for no more Christmas Chaos!


----------



## Bruce

So sorry about your goat!!! I hope it isn't serious but based on your description, I fear you are right 

Regarding electric fence on your neighbor's' property. You can angle wire supports 8" or a foot up and in toward your side of the fence and run hotwire on that. The kids next door won't be able to accidentally touch it. Cowboy can't go over without hitting it.


----------



## NH homesteader

Oh I hope your doeling can heal up! It's always the favorite isn't it. Poor girl,  but sounds like you have a good vet...  And you are quite the doctor yourself! 

Maddie is awesome. I just told my husband that story and he's like...  Wow...


----------



## babsbag

I need Mattie.  My older dogs are like "well Mom, you brought her here, you take care of her". Mia will be 1 year old this week and she has been perfect with the goats for about a month, even with my youngest ones. I have kids due in two weeks so we will see how that goes over, but she is also getting her puppy tomorrow so hoping that helps.    He will grow up and stop the chasing/herding/playing but the fence climbing is tough. 

I think I would get those step in fence posts and run them inside the fence by about a foot and then just run rows of hot wire where Cowboy is going to have to "bump" them when he tries to climb. The neighbor kids won't be able to touch them unless they reach through the fence and purposefully tries to reach them.  Here's another idea. I haven't read the article but I am familiar with coyote rollers. 

http://yoursassyself.com/roll-bar-fence-diy-keep-your-pets-in-others-out/

Hope you doeling makes a quick recovery. It is nice to have a competent vet.


----------



## Bruce

I imagine the roll bar would work IF the top of the fence is stiff enough to hold up the rollers. How long a section of fence do you need to deal with? Lots of work and expense to build those rollers if you have much length to deal with. If you already have the hotwire charger I would go that route. If the length isn't too long, what about a portable electronet?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

The span that I'm working with isn't that long-maybe 100 yards.  I'll probably go ahead and do electric if I can get it out of reach of the kiddos.  But ugh- if ya can't tell- I really don't want to!  I'll need to get a solar powered charger.  Probably go that route....

In other news- goats leg is totally and completely broken.  Both bones.    I left her with the vet.  He was going to give her a light sedation and set and splint it.  I'm waiting on pins and needles for a report.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Sorry about the broken leg goat 

Glad it can *hopefully* be fixed. Hoping she heals up fine. Unfortunately when we had a broken leg goat, it was unfixable… 

Hoping for good news when the vet calls back


----------



## Baymule

Hope your doe is fixable.


----------



## Hens and Roos

that your little doe can heal up


----------



## Latestarter

Best of luck/wishes for a full goat leg recovery.   Any idea how it happened? Just wonder to make sure it can be dealt with so it doesn't happen again...


----------



## CntryBoy777

That is such a shame!! Hoping for the Best for you and Her!!


----------



## Ferguson K

How's the doeling?


----------



## NH homesteader

Aww poor doeling.


----------



## babsbag

Poor baby, I hope the vet was able to fix her up. 

I use a DC charger and a 12v battery. Then I have a solar charger that keeps the battery charged.  The chargers that have the solar built in don't have a very strong bite, at least not for the money you have to spend on them.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I finally made it back home!  First order of business was to unload the grandkiddos and all their paraphernalia and go get hop-a-long Shadow, lol.  Vet wasn't there when I picked her up but the tech said she did great and that she  handled the sedation well.  He's supposed to call me with after-care instructions later today.  She looks good though - very perky and she was at the front of the stall as soon as she heard my voice.  Ahhhh!  Warms the cockles of my heart .

I don't positively absolutely know how she did it - but my best guess - pure speculation is:  I had let all the goats/horses/pigs into a different area of the pasture where we park the trailer and the tractor.  Goats were all over the lowboy because there are still a couple round bales on there that I haven't unloaded.  I can only guess that perhaps she jumped off of something and hung her back leg up on whatever...  Like I said - just a guess.  That's the day that I was working on the fence and was outside allllllll day and I never saw or heard anything out of the ordinary.

Just talked to the vet and he says 35 - 45 days in the cast and take another x-ray then - UNLESS the cast gets yucky and/or loose...then we go in for a replacement cast.  Gotta say that the little gal isn't happy being confined.  She's in a 6 x 6 pen right now with deep shavings to try to keep things clean.  I've got another area I can move her to IF it stays dry.

ALSO - more good news.  Cowboy stayed in while we were gone!  So far - the extra height is holding him.  It's only been a couple days so I'm not celebrating yet. 

Brought home 3 grandchildren today and life can't get much better!  The goat is good, Cowboy is where he's supposed to be and I'm surrounded by pure love...ahhhhh!  Sappy, but true!


----------



## CntryBoy777

So Happy for the outcome.......am sure Glad it all worked out for ya...


----------



## Ferguson K

Hopefully she recovers well! Speedy and healthy recovery for the little girl.


----------



## Southern by choice

@frustratedearthmother  Haven't heard from you... how is your doe? 
The way you described it ... well reminded me of Star's shattered femur.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

@Southern by choice 

So far she is doing well!  I let her out of her tiny pen today into a stall with a run because she was going absolutely nuts.  I found out that she can jump up on a wagon even while wearing a cast  so that wagon had to go!

Honestly- when I first saw her leg dangling and wiggling in the middle I really wasn't sure there was much hope.  The break is totally through both bones and was displaced a good quarter to half inch.  Vet said it's likely she'll heal a little crooked in that leg- but I don't care. 

I thought about your experience with Star and was really afraid we were headed down the same path.   Her age and it being a back leg instead of a front were all in her favor.  Had it been in the joint it would have been over for her.

We've got a pretty long haul ahead of us, but I'm optimistic...so far.


----------



## Southern by choice

Oh I am so glad she didn't have the same fate. 

I miss Star everyday. Kinda weird how one goat can mean so much.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

The grands (10, 9 and 5) were with me this morning while I was feeding.  The older ones were feeding chickens and the youngest was busy being my shadow.  As is his usual, Cowboy was walking right beside me so I asked 5yo to step over just a bit so Cowboy wouldn't accidentally bump into her.  She stepped about a foot or so to the left and Cowboy stepped about a foot to the left.  She stepped back closer to me and Cowboy stepped back over too.  He was fascinated with the little one and was so very quiet and gentle around her. 

She has NO fear of any of the critters and really wanted to see the baby pigs.  Nope - Cowboy wasn't having any of that!  He wasn't being too pushy with her, but he stayed between her and them. (Not that I was going to let her either - but he beat me to the punch.)  He is a superb babysitter along with his other qualities.


----------



## NH homesteader

Love that dog!


----------



## Bruce

Keep the 5 Y/O around and near the pigs then you won't have to worry about Cowboy going over the fence anymore.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> Keep the 5 Y/O around and near the pigs then you won't have to worry about Cowboy going over the fence anymore.



Now THAT''S a good idea!   

(But so far, he's not been out since Monday when I raised the height)


----------



## Southern by choice

I love my Toli's I love my Pyrs... So two very different dogs yet both so amazing!


----------



## CntryBoy777

@frustratedearthmother  so how is Cowboy doing?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy is a laugh a minute.  He really is a true joy!

He pesters Maddie mercilessly - but she loves it too.  It's the first time she's ever had anybody her size to play with (even though Cowboy doesn't play fair).  Tail biter!!







They play hard!





AND as an extra bonus - he stays in the fence these days! (finding wood to knock on)


----------



## CntryBoy777

That's good to hear! I did take a pic for ya and posted it on my journal page....Star's fuzzies are showing and when ya pet and rub her they stick to your hand...


----------



## Baymule

That thick Pyrenees tail makes such a great handle! Our black Lab/Great Dane does the same to Trip. He used to drag Trip all over the place until Trip got bigger than him.

Cowboy


----------



## frustratedearthmother

For whatever reason today I started thinking about what the heck am I gonna do when the girls (Maddie and Gracie) come in heat????   For the six years that I've had Maddie we've never had a problem with roaming males.  Never had to worry about it....but now that I've got this big galoot, and especially since the big galooot can get over anything that resembles a fence I think it makes sense for me to start preparing.  Maddie was in heat when Cowboy was still a little guy and it wasn't a problem, but he's not a little guy anymore! 

I've gotta admit that I have let the thought of Maddie pups enter my head - but other than wanting another Maddie to clone the one I have - there doesn't seem to be any reason to breed her.  AND, she's six years old and has never been a mommy. It makes me a tiny bit sad that her wonderfulness won't get passed on, but there are other wonderful dogs in the world...

So, I guess I'll be giving TSC a bit of my money for a kennel and then I'll pay extra for panels to go over the top cuz I'm sure that a mere six foot fence wouldn't stop Mr. Cowboy - argh!

Just for your viewing pleasure:





And some baby bumps:


----------



## NH homesteader

Yay baby bumps!!


----------



## CntryBoy777

They sure make a nice looking pair, tho and being in E Tx with so many friends surely ya can find some nice Needy homes for them, and Maddie one or 2 to Train...just a thought.  
Looks like the "Oven isa Baking"


----------



## Latestarter

Ummm just as an aside, should you decide to change your mind on making little Maddies... Please put me #1 on the pup waiting list for a female with patroller tendencies. My ideal pairing for Mel would be a 50/50 Pyr/Toli female patroller, preferably in the 110-120+ lb range... That looks like a plausible result from those two were it to happen.


----------



## Latestarter

Just so you know, I wasn't joking... I am 100% serious.   I'm sure there might be another person or two lurking out there in the ether who would want on that waiting list as well.


----------



## babsbag

enabler


----------



## Latestarter

Hey... what can I say? Anyone else out there want to join a potential puppy list? Speak now and help me enable!


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

I wish I could say I would, but I don't think I'm ready for another dog at this point, much as I love them. I have 2 right now


----------



## NH homesteader

That's some serious puppy enabling! No puppy for me, but if we're making orders here I'll take a kinder doeling


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yikes!


----------



## Bruce

You have to help @Latestarter out here @frustratedearthmother ! He's got Mel so spoiled and used to the comfy life, he's going to need a LGD to guard his future flocks 

Since HE is the one doing the asking, you can put the onus on him to find homes for any 'extra' pups.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Or "loan" him Maddie through the birthing, raising, and weaning process!


----------



## Latestarter

Oh gosh... loan? While I'm caring for her and the pups, they might all just"escape" their area, "run off" and get "lost" and I wouldn't have anything to return to you


----------



## Bruce

Sounds to me like a deal in the works! @frustratedearthmother isn't currently interested in getting another dog, @Latestarter wants one. As long as you return Maddie after the pups are placed, everybody wins!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> Oh gosh... loan? While I'm caring for her and the pups, they might all just"escape" their area, "run off" and get "lost" and I wouldn't have anything to return to you



ARGH!


----------



## NH homesteader

There are some rescues that do LGD's in Texas right? Sorry... I'm not a die hard pro rescue type but sometimes I worry those reading this forum (you know, those unregistered ones) think we all think it's a great idea to breed dogs because we want one puppy. Not saying anyone's encouraging it, or that FEM shouldn't, I'm just over here hiding under my chair... Please be kind


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I'd never be never mean to you!  

Just my 2cents on the rescue subject:

I would love for there to be a happy ending for every rescue LGD.  But, sometimes there are fails in the LGD world (I might even go so far as to say from bad placements!) and those dogs might be better off in a pet home (which is what most of the rescues want anyway).


----------



## NH homesteader

I agree. But there are some down that way that try to rehome working dogs. I don't think every dog should be rescued, particularly to be put to work.


----------



## Latestarter

When the time comes, I will search the Pyr and Toli as well as working dog rescues for proven working dogs. But if there's a possibility that a known BYH member with LGD's "might" be having pups, well, you can't blame a guy for asking can ya? Especially when said member posts often about how good said LGDs are.


----------



## NH homesteader

I kind of really have a soft spot for Cowboy.


----------



## Bruce

And even better for @Latestarter if that BYHer with desirable pups lives relatively nearby in Texas. Not quite the jaunt he had to take to get Mel.


----------



## Latestarter

Not that I wouldn't do that jaunt again... in a HEART beat Bruce, for the right reason(s).   Not scared of a long drive at all!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

NH homesteader said:


> There are some rescues that do LGD's in Texas right? Sorry... I'm not a die hard pro rescue type but sometimes I worry those reading this forum (you know, those unregistered ones) think we all think it's a great idea to breed dogs because we want one puppy. Not saying anyone's encouraging it, or that FEM shouldn't, I'm just over here hiding under my chair... Please be kind


I understand what you are saying. Many here have/do breed their dogs. I do think it's a little silly to breed a dog because you want to keep only one pup. If you had plans to keep several pups I can see why one would. (I could see FEM keeping a few  ) 
Sadly I'm seeing more and more newbies  planing to get LGD's so that they can breed them.  It makes me sad, but it's getting more and more common. People aren't taking into account the temperament of the parent stock, and have parent stock that either aren't around livestock or don't behave around them. 

You'd be shocked how many people just want colorful LGD's to breed, along with all the issues above. 

I'm not against breeding dogs in general- just against irresponsible breeding. Hopefully those lurking understand that most of us here are like this. 

(obviously none of this applies to you FEM- just rambling lol)


----------



## NH homesteader

Thank you for stating my point more eloquently than me!


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## frustratedearthmother

I have certainly enjoyed hearing everyone's point of view.  Don't get me wrong - I would LOVE to have a Maddie/Cowboy puppy - but only if she SWORE that she would only have one pup - okay TWO, lol.  One for me and one for LS!  But, I already have a potential new pup in the works that might require one of those long drives!  (or an airplane ride for the pup)

I also have no problem with responsible breeders - if not for them I wouldn't have the two wonderful LGD's that I have right now. 

Now, off to the TSC website to pick a strong, solid new kennel!


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## Latestarter

Not TOO strong now... justsayin


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## frustratedearthmother

Well, truth be known.... Cowboy is the result of his sire DESTROYING a chain link kennel.  I saw it.  It was TORN UP!  Which is why I'm NOT getting a chain link kennel, lol!


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## NH homesteader

Good plan!


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## Latestarter

wow... that's pretty impressive/destructive "wanna get some" behavior...


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## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy got his comeuppance today, lol.  And, it was about time.  He's always been very good about letting the chickens eat his food...(I'm not sure what's good about it - but he lets 'em).  Maddie, on the other hand, won't defer to anything but the horses when it comes to her food.  Cowboy, however, WILL chase the horses away from his food.  It can be a crazy mixed up mess around here at feeding time, lol.  We figured our pretty early on that it's best to bring one of the dogs into another area at feeding time and that works pretty well.  Snack time is another thing altogether.

Boiled eggs - who doesn't love them?  The chickens love them, the pigs love them, the dogs love them...   Yesterday I took a bunch of boiled eggs out to distribute between a variety of critters.  Dogs were underfoot...nothing Maddie loves more than an egg.  Cowboy was being a pest so I stuck one in his mouth and tossed one to Maddie who was about 6 feet away from me.  Oh My Gosh!  Cowboy took great offense to Maddie getting an egg and he exploded.  Literally cleared that six feet on one jump and landed right on top of Maddie who was facing the other way.  He knocked her onto her back in the water and mud and it was ON!

Now...it was unfair from the start.  Maddie never saw what was coming and before she could react she was upside down in the mud, so I tried to intervene.  Cowboy was NOT listening to me so I took the only thing I had on hand, which was a bag of boiled eggs, and bopped him over the head, lol.  Didn't faze him at all...so I did it again.  At that point the plastic grocery bag rips and boiled eggs are flying everywhere.  Two bops on the head with boiled eggs was enough for Cowboy - so the fight is over and egg eating commences.

Fast forward to today.  Again, I have boiled eggs.  I take them to the pigs this time - but Maddie and Cowboy aren't dumb.  They see what's going on and high-tail it into the pig pen.  This time they were on solid ground and Maddie reached the eggs before Cowboy did.  She's already in mid egg-eating when he gets close to an egg.  I can see the look in her eyes.  She hadn't forgotten yesterday....   She launched herself right at his face!  And this time, she didn't back down.  She didn't lose her footing.  She took out all of her fury on him and while she didn't get him on the ground she turned him around time and time again.  He gave up.  It was awesome, lol! 

I checked them over and there weren't any fatal wounds.  Maddie favored one foot for about five minutes and Cowboy's pride was shattered.  And, even worse, I fussed at him for getting aggressive with a piglet right after that.  He slunk to the other side of the pasture and about 15 minutes later I saw Maddie over there humping him.  I laughed right out loud.  Maddie has re-claimed her dominance and Cowboy learned that an old dog...never forgets!


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## NH homesteader

Oh my word. That is a lot of excitement! I laughed reading your post, even though I kind of felt bad for Cowboy at the end, lol. 

I have an older dog that needs to put my younger dog in her place. Maybe he needs lessons from Maddie!


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## babsbag

Yeah Maddie.  Sometimes a girl just has to do what a girl has to do.


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## Southern by choice

LOL I think I'd make them both sit and then feed one egg after another to Maddie right there... right in front of Cowboy!


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## Bruce

And the pigs lost out?? Seems the dogs are the pigs here!


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## frustratedearthmother

Pigs didn't lose out, lol.  I had about 5 dozen boiled eggs for them to share.


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## Bruce

Where the heck are you getting all those eggs??


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## frustratedearthmother

From all the silly chickens that Cowboy and Maddie guard.   I usually sell a bunch at work, but we had three weeks off for Christmas...I won't sell anything but the freshest eggs so the ones that stacked up over the break finally went to the dogs/pigs.


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## NH homesteader

My pigs LOVE eggs. I used to have ducks but my DH is allergic to duck eggs so our pigs got eggs every day.


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## Baymule

I busted out laughing when I read about Maddie humping  Cowboy. I guess she put him in his place, which is the bottom of the egg food chain!!


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## frustratedearthmother

Went out to feed this morning and Cowboy wouldn't come out of the barn.  He was laying up by the inside door of the barn that opens into the other part of the barn.  I called him and he raised his head and looked at me, but still didn't get up.  Scared the daylights out of me.  I had to go around the other side of the barn because he was blocking the walk thru door.  He was laying right beside his favorite girl...the one that he loved the most...and she had passed.  I cried - but not because the goat had passed - it was her time.  It was the look on his face broke my heart. 

She was 13 and had  slowed down this last year.  But she never missed a meal - went out to pasture every day with the herd even though she was always the last one in.  There was no clue yesterday to lead me to believe that she would be gone today.  But, I guess Cowboy knew.

He didn't want me to move her - actually got between me and her and wouldn't move.  There was no aggression in him - he just didn't want her to go. He followed as I loaded her up in the FEL and took her to her final resting place under a tree further out in the pasture.


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## NH homesteader

good dog Cowboy


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## Ferguson K

Good boy Cowboy . So sad. Glad she's in a better place.


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## goatgurl

I've seen that look from Katie.  their pain is real and hurts my heart.  good boy cowboy


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## Southern by choice




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## TAH




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## Goat Whisperer

So sorry. It's so hard on the LGD's, and as we have found out, it is hard on the goats when they lose a dog. Just breaks my heart. 

So sorry for your loss FEM. Cowboy is such a good boy, I'm sure the ol' girl was comforted by having Cowboy by her side during her last moments


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## frustratedearthmother

They really were a pair.  And, I was surprised at her passing.  She was 'as usual' yesterday... But, if ya gotta go - why not be in your favorite resting place, surrounded by your friends?    I'm sure it was peaceful - she was just curled up in a sleeping position, no thrashing, not a hair out of place.

I've got another doe that will be 15 if she makes it a few more months.  And, I feel she will.  She's a cranky old gal that doesn't look a day over 10, lol.


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## Baymule

That is so sweet and sad. I read it to my husband and he teared  up at Cowboy grieving over the loss of his friend. What a good dog. DH is blowing his nose now and told me for you to not write a story like that again.


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## frustratedearthmother

It truly was one of the most heart wrenching things I've ever seen. 

We start kidding in about 6 weeks and hopefully Cowboy will love the new babies as much as he loved his old gal!


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## CntryBoy777

So sorry FEM...and Cowboy deserves one too...
She did have a full life, and glad it was a peaceful passing. That is what we are hoping for our old girl, she is soon to be 10 this year, and tho the Boys sometimes terrorizes her, they are really going to miss her too. Even tho ya expect it, it still touches ya to lose them....


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## babsbag

I'm sorry.   Things like that are always hard; it's like our children grieving for a pet. And we can't even explain it to the dogs which makes it harder.  Hope he finds a new 'bestie', you will have to let him pick out his very own goat.


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## Latestarter

What a good dog. What a sad experience for him and all involved. Poor guy. Hopefully he'll bond with the babies soon to come.


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## sonorabitandspur

Goat Whisperer said:


> They are ALL adorable!
> 
> .....Hate to be a partypooper, but I'd be very concerned that this breeder is already letting people come out and see the pups this young.....that's parvo waiting to happen
> 
> Sorry, you can me now
> 
> That being said, I still wanna smooch them


In all my years we never had a dog with parvo! A couple years ago we had a litter of the nicest border collie pups. And they suddenly started to get sick at about three month old. Turned out to be parvo, how it happened we can't figure out. I ended up loosing one of the best little females I have seen in a long time! The rest the vet managed to save at a huge cost to the pocket book. I too would not let anyone come see them before they got their first parvo shot after that experience.


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## frustratedearthmother

That's so sad!   Sorry you lost that little gal!


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## sonorabitandspur

Sorry for the loss! I have never had LGD's but they seem to be the sweetest dogs around. Cowboy sounds like a great one!


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## OneFineAcre

So sorry for you and Cowboy losing an old friend


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## BlessedWithGoats

So sorry FEM


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## frustratedearthmother

Gonna share a little story about the difference between Maddie and Cowboy.  Maddie trained Cowboy and she did an awesome job.  She raised him with an iron fist and when she corrected him she did it with tooth and nail!  He was a pretty fast learner, even with a bump or two along the way.

Now, Cowboy is getting to be a pretty great, grown-up kinda guy.  Lately he's been spending some time with the bucks.  I've had them in a different pen lately, and as we know - Cowboy goes anywhere on the place that he wants to - fence or not, lol.  (But he hasn't catapulted the perimeter fence since December!  YAY

So, yesterday he was in the buck pen with the guys.  I went into another area and left the gate open and the bucks followed me through.  I didn't want them in there so I was chasing them around in circles and they went everywhere EXCEPT out the gate.  So, what's an old lady to do - I called Gracie, the English shepherd.  English Shepherds have many talents and one of them is herding.  She has no formal training, but she's pretty much a natural at anything she does - soooooo...    She knows exactly what I want and in about 1.5 seconds she has three of those bucks outta that pen.  Only problem is that there were FOUR bucks in there.  She looks at me like... please, please, let me!  I tell her to "get 'im" and she sure did.  She went at him from about 8 feet away and he hightailed it right outta there - BUT - before she could get any closer Cowboy stepped right in between her and the goat.  He wasn't mean about it - he didn't bowl her over or attack her - he just stood in front of her and she stopped in her tracks. 

I had totally forgotten Cowboy was in there or I'd never have asked Gracie to move them.  But, she did her job and he did his.   He just did it with a little more gentleness than Maddie would have, lol. 

Holy Moly he's a good dog!


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## Bruce

He sure is!!!!


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## CntryBoy777

He has crossed a bunch of hurdles, and it sounds like he has learned from each one.....tho, I think the Owner/Trainer/Mother Hen needs a "Pat on the Back", too.


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## Latestarter

Man, that is just pure awesome! I can imagine you're just tickled pink!


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## Baymule

Cowboy is an awesome dog! Ya' know, you _could_ post some more pics of the handsome fella!


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## NH homesteader

X2

 Cowboy


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## sonorabitandspur

Thank-you for the story! I would assume that when you work sheep or goats with a collie type herder you need to restrain your LGD's. I have a young dog who went to a goat farm, they use Anatolians. The lady says the young collie, "Moon" is doing really well with his herd work. After I spoke with her I began wondering how all that herding goes over with her Anatolians.


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## Mike CHS

That is a super story about a super dog.


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## frustratedearthmother

sonorabitandspur said:


> I would assume that when you work sheep or goats with a collie type herder you need to restrain your LGD's.



Yes, I generally wouldn't have asked her to move the goats if I had remembered he was there.  He's kinda like a ghost dog, lol.  He can follow me through a gate, and I never even know he's behind me.  For a big guy he's very stealthy!

That situation was a mistake on my part and I'm so glad it didn't end badly.  However, Gracie had her little part in raising Cowboy too - and he loves her.  When we first got him he was just a little guy and too young to be out in the pasture.  So, for the first month or so he lived in the yard with Gracie and took supervised visits to the pasture.  For awhile he was terrified of Maddie - so Gracie was his babysitter.  While Maddie wouldn't have tolerated Gracie "gettin'" HER goats, Cowboy handled it in a very diplomatic way.  The guy has good judgment!

We've got a couple of kiddings coming up real soon and I'm anxious to see how Cowboy handles it.  He's so 'hands-on' with his goats that I know he's going to want to be right in the middle of things.  I will be moving the does who are closest this weekend into a fully enclosed area that Cowboy CAN'T access on his own.  However, I'm going to do my very best to be present so I can let Cowboy observe his first kidding(s).

Stay tuned!


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## Baymule

I'm a Cowboy fan!!


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## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


> He can follow me through a gate, and I never even know he's behind me. For a big guy he's very stealthy!



SO true! The day Merlin figured out how to get past the front gate between the barns, I put him back, he got out, I put him back, he got out but this time I saw how. I brought him into the workshop while I worked on something to keep him behind the gates. The door is a big sliding thing on a top rail. He checked out the workshop then laid down. I went about my work and when I was ready to leave, no Merlin. He had figured out he could push the door away from the wall and get out even though there is a 2' wide overlap when the door is closed.


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## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy is almost a year old and he had his first kids today!   

I've spoken before about the bond between Cowboy and Gracie (English Shepherd).  I've often wondered what he would do if he had to make the choice between Gracie and his goats.  I got a bit of an idea of where his loyalty lies when he stepped between Gracie and a buck last week.  Today, again, he showed me how devoted he is to his goats.

We had kids today!  Two .... bucklings .   This was his first official kidding.  I wanted him close - but not too close - until I could see his reaction.  He and Gracie were in the yard, separated by a fence, from the pen where the doe kidded.  They were both transfixed at the whole ordeal - probably for different reasons.  Gracie had that 110% herding dog focus on the baby on the other side of the fence.  She was excited to the point of trembling and whining.... Cowboy was intently focused on the baby also...but he was calm and laid back at least for a minute.  I noticed him looking at Gracie and he started trying to wedge himself between her and the fence.  She didn't move away - so he tried harder.  She stood her ground.  Then I heard it....low...deep...rumbling.  He was growling at Gracie!  In all the time he's been with us I've never heard him growl at Gracie.  I  watched them for a minute and he did it again.  There was absolutely no nonsense in his demeanor.  He was serious!  This time Gracie went into the 'down' position which is what she does anytime she's in trouble, lol!  It was funny for a second - but I decided it was time to end this situation before it got serious.  I put Gracie in the house and went back to supervise the second half of the kidding.  After it was all over I let Cowboy into the pen.  Mama goat wasn't happy, but I held her back for a moment and let Cowboy check out the babies.  He was so gentle with them and was trying to clean them.  After I turned mama goat loose she challenged him.   He turned away and literally slunk out of the pen, hugging the wall all the way.  He was so totally submissive to her that if he could have crawled out of that pen - he would have. 
I really consider this a huge test for him and he passed with flying colors.  Another milestone crossed!


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## NH homesteader

Yay babies! Yay Cowboy!


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## samssimonsays

That is awesome!


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## OneFineAcre




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## Bruce

What a great dog. No problem with him clearing fences anymore, he'll want to stay with his goats.


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!


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## Southern by choice

love a great dog!

i was picturing this in my mind and reminded me of cal and d's first kidding... they were there the whole time doing the belly crawl


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## Baymule

How wonderful, this is what you have been waiting for. Cowboy passed with flying colors!!! I love Cowboy!


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## TAH

!!

PICS?


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## CntryBoy777

Congratulations on the 2 bucklings and Cowboy, too!...
May be he deserves some Boiled Eggs....without Maddie


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## babsbag

Good boy Cowboy; I love it when they make us proud.


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## Latestarter

That's awesome Fem!  Sure there isn't a litter in the future?


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## frustratedearthmother

Went out today and found Cowboy with his kids!  He's still a little mystified but he's great with them!


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## CntryBoy777

Awww that is so Sweet!!....he really is a beautiful dog...


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## Southern by choice

i love lgd's they are the best! 
they steal your heart and make it melt especially when they love the babies!


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh - he is smitten with them!  Had another birth this afternoon and he was just heartbroken that mom didn't want his help, lol.


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## TAH

He looks awesome!!!! 

Bucklings/doelings?


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## frustratedearthmother

AS of today we're at 6 bucklings (1 doa), 2 doelings.  Hoping that will change tomorrow!


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## Ferguson K

Way to go Cowboy! He's turning into quite the feller!


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## Bruce

I can see that the kids are deathly afraid of Cowboy  He probably has to look in all directions before he takes a step anywhere!


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## Baymule

That is too sweet! I love Cowboy, looks like his kids love him too!


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## frustratedearthmother

Almost posted this story on another thread about LGD's and training methods.  But, it's Cowboy's story so I'm putting it in his thread.

I've talked in the past about Cowboy and his fence climbing escapades.  He could, and still can, go over any and every fence on this place.  But since December he hasn't.  Until recently. Sigh.

Background information:  Neighbors on one side of me have decided to let their back acreage 'go wild'.  This has been going on for two years now.  It is literally a jungle.  Impenetrable by humans and a refuge to all types of critters.  My goats can stick their heads through the fence openings and eat as far as they can stretch their necks.  That leaves a jungle-less border of a couple feet on the other side of my fence.  I can see little critter trails through the jungle...

More background:  We have a resident bobcat population.  Bobcats are the reason that I have LGD's.  I have good fences that keep out dogs and coyotes...but they don't keep out cats.  Some years back I lost two goats and had one severely injured by a bobcat.  One was killed and eaten 30 yards from my back door, inside two layers of fence.  Bobcat has been SEEN taking chickens from neighbors yard.

Even more background:  We have baby piggies!  Cowboy doesn't really like the pigs.  He keeps them away from the goats.  He is serious about that.

First morning after the piggies were born I went out and one was missing.  Neighbors called and said Cowboy was in their yard.  Odd.  He hasn't breached the fence in 6 months.  Next day anther piglet was missing.  Cowboy was in neighbors yard again.  I went over both mornings to fetch him and he was already back home before I got there.  This happened one more time and again Cowboy came home on his own.   I watched him.  He went around their yard marking.  He went to their "jungle" and marked.  I didn't lose any more piglets.

It is my 'guess' that even though Cowboy doesn't like the pigs - he dislikes that bobcat even more.  Even though he breached the fence - he did his job.  He didn't roam.  He didn't evade capture.  He came home on his own and we haven't lost any more piglets.

Someone mentioned that if he had been more vigilant that I might not have lost any piglets.  This may sound bad - but I'd rather lose a piglet than a baby goat.  If he was guarding the piglets, the kids would have been without protection.  I haven't lost any kids.

Maddie has been out with the adult goats.  Cowboy guards the kids.  Pigs weren't in the 'guarding zone'.  But, since he breached the fence and marked everywhere nothing else, not even a chicken, is missing.

Was he doing his job - or was he being a bad dog?  I know what I think!  I think - Good Dog!


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## OneFineAcre

I think Good Dog too.


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## Bruce

Yes good dog, protecting ALL of the property by letting the bobcats know there is a reason NOT to go through the fence.


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## frustratedearthmother

I agree!  He's pretty awesome.


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## Southern by choice

I love this! 
More later- I must take a nap! No more kidding til August thankfully!


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## Latestarter

You've got a winner for sure! Good dog!


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## Baymule

I love Cowboy!   He was doing his job, keeping ALL your animals safe.


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## CntryBoy777

I see it this way....would ya shoot a seen predator on the other side of the fence, or wait until it was inside the fence? Sometimes exceptions have to be allowed, or the situation could escalate. His intentions were made very clear that he wasn't just roaming, but was doing his job protecting...and the fence just happened to be in the way of doing it. Kudos to Cowboy and a few more treats for being the LGD that ya always knew he could be....


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## frustratedearthmother

Just wanted to post this terrible pic of one of my favorite babies this year.  I've never had a goat marked this way - I don't  even know how to describe her except that she looks like a dirty blonde goat.  She's not dirty- just dark spots on a light colored goat.


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## Baymule

She is Cowboy colored! Since she is not striped brindle, and sorta blotchy, her color is hereby known as Blindle!


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## frustratedearthmother




----------



## Southern by choice

sometimes these goats that love their dogs take things too far!

Really interesting... will you clip her?


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## frustratedearthmother

Hadn't really thought about clipping her... but maybe..


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## CntryBoy777

That is a unique pattern and really pretty, I bet she will have some really nice babies....


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## frustratedearthmother

Haven't updated on Cowboy for awhile....

Today was one of "those" days. Maddie is in heat. Ugh. Previously I put her in the livestock trailer... too hot to do that now. She's on day 8, so no more time to get this figured out. This morning I DID put her in the trailer....that's how I found out it's too hot. Poor girl was panting like crazy. So, I'm thinking that if I can leave her out during the day that she can spend the nights in the trailer. That means I've got to find something to do with Cowboy. This dog! I know that he can climb or dig out of anything so I wondered if I could put him on a chain for a week or so. Don't really like to chain a dog - ever.   But, tried it and he was PI$$ED! He kept looking up like "how do I climb out of this chain" thingy. For about 90 minutes he tried to get out of that chain. He tried to chew it. He tried to paw it. He lunged against it. He did everything EXCEPT try to slip his collar. LOL! Got him - right? Nope - he broke the snap. Sooooo, I get a new snap. A brand new brass double ended snap and put that on his collar. Looped it and hooked it twice... hard to explain, but should have been doubley strong. It was. The collar, the brand new, extra large, heavy duty collar wasn't as strong as this dog is. He pulled so hard that the collar came apart. I give up. Maddie is going to live in the breezeway for the next couple weeks. 

Only problem - Maddie doesn't WANT to live in the breezeway. She tries to make a break every time we go out the door. This oughta be fun. Seriously thinking about spay... but don't want to spay a 7 year old dog...so I guess I'll just whine about the bitch in heat twice a year!


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## CntryBoy777

You could always make a diaper for her....but, somehow with one busting collars....I don't think that a piece of cloth is gonna do ya much good...........too bad ya couldn't give her a couole of hens to watch in the breezeway to keep her guarding thru it to "Occupy" her attention while in there. May be a fall/winter project to get something prepared for the next cycle.....not trying to add to your "List" at all.....merely a suggestion.....


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## Baymule

I have to put Paris in the back yard with a hot wire. She's crazy, Trip goes crazy, it's nuts. Trip sleeps next to the back yard fence and runs from one side to the other. Paris is 10 and I'm seriously considering spay for her. I understand the misery all of you are going through.


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## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> not trying to add to your "List" at all.....merely a suggestion.....


I understand.  The livestock trailer works great when it's not 103 degrees!  It's where she spends most of her 'down' time anyway. 

If she does well inside, and so far she is, that might well be the best solution.  If not, I'll be making a plan!


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## frustratedearthmother

Even looked into this, lol. 

http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/the-creation-of-the-stud-stopper


----------



## Southern by choice

frustratedearthmother said:


> Haven't updated on Cowboy for awhile....
> 
> Today was one of "those" days. Maddie is in heat. Ugh. Previously I put her in the livestock trailer... too hot to do that now. She's on day 8, so no more time to get this figured out. This morning I DID put her in the trailer....that's how I found out it's too hot. Poor girl was panting like crazy. So, I'm thinking that if I can leave her out during the day that she can spend the nights in the trailer. That means I've got to find something to do with Cowboy. This dog! I know that he can climb or dig out of anything so I wondered if I could put him on a chain for a week or so. Don't really like to chain a dog - ever.   But, tried it and he was PI$$ED! He kept looking up like "how do I climb out of this chain" thingy. For about 90 minutes he tried to get out of that chain. He tried to chew it. He tried to paw it. He lunged against it. He did everything EXCEPT try to slip his collar. LOL! Got him - right? Nope - he broke the snap. Sooooo, I get a new snap. A brand new brass double ended snap and put that on his collar. Looped it and hooked it twice... hard to explain, but should have been doubley strong. It was. The collar, the brand new, extra large, heavy duty collar wasn't as strong as this dog is. He pulled so hard that the collar came apart. I give up. Maddie is going to live in the breezeway for the next couple weeks.
> 
> Only problem - Maddie doesn't WANT to live in the breezeway. She tries to make a break every time we go out the door. This oughta be fun. Seriously thinking about spay... but don't want to spay a 7 year old dog...so I guess I'll just whine about the bitch in heat twice a year!



Actually she will have less issues being aged 7 - the incidence of cancer that is related too spays is so significant before age 5 - after age five there is far less occurrence.
Mammary tumors are the one thing that could be a problem however you can feel them and they can be removed without issue.

Rita is in her first heat! She is super clean! A little moody though. She went in on July 29th  (exactly 11 months old)


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Southern by choice said:


> Actually she will have less issues being aged 7 - the incidence of cancer that is related too spays is so significant before age 5 - after age five there is far less occurrence.


That's good to know - thanks for that info!

Ahhhh, Rita is getting all grown up!


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## Latestarter

Well, you could always break down and let Cowboy and Maddie have a tryst...   I know...  Just dreaming about a pup from that pairing...


----------



## goats&moregoats

Spent a little time reading these post. I am jealous of course! I can't wait until my goats get here, followed closely by my Maremma male Tarack: Ta-Rack(AKA Freddy). I miss all my goats and definitely miss Tahoe, Yukon(RIP), Jethro and Grub. Life better not have anymore curve balls for me.


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## Bruce

You could always stick a window A/C unit in the stock trailer with an extension cord @frustratedearthmother


----------



## frustratedearthmother

goats&moregoats said:


> Life better not have anymore curve balls for me.


I agree!  Hoping you get all the bumps in life smoothed out!


----------



## Latestarter

You know we all want you happy, healthy, and farming (with the grands) @goats&moregoats   Hope it all continues to come together for you.


----------



## Baymule

Rita is growing up. Picture update?


----------



## CntryBoy777

FEM how is the clean-up going?....and hope the animals are able to be out and about.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

We're good here...most of my clean up is moving things back downstairs that I took upstairs!  And, since I had to bring my parents here I was forced to turn my 'junk' room into a bedroom for them.  There was some 'clean up' involved in that too.  

Parents and brother/sis in law, both lost everything inside their houses.  No flood insurance...    

My parents are 89 and 85 and really want to go home....


----------



## babsbag

I can't even begin to comprehend losing everything at that age. Makes my heart hurt.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well that's good to hear about your clean-up....not so good about your parents and family, but they made it thru it and that's worth smiling about. I have lost everything I owned twice in my like and it isn't a good feeling, but life does go on and things are recouped to some degree. I'm sure it is difficult on your parents to be uprooted from their home and routine. Hopefully, they will adjust over time and become adjusted to a new routine and surroundings.....


----------



## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear they lost everything in their houses


----------



## Baymule

That really sucks.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats




----------



## frustratedearthmother

Thanks everybody.  This is actually the second time they've lost everything.  The first time I was about 3yo and our house burned.  It's my earliest memory...watching firemen fighting the fire.  It is hard on them, but at least they still have their home this time...just nothing much left inside except the pictures on the walls (what's left of the walls anyway)....that's important stuff.

Sheetrock for the walls and carpet for the floor will go along way towards making them feel better.  I told mom she doesn't need to worry about filling the whole house back up with furniture.  A bed, a table and a couple chairs will make them feel right at home.


----------



## Bruce

Hard way to downsize all the stuff you don't really need anyway


----------



## Latestarter

So glad the family came through it alive and well. Sorry about their material losses. For your folks, they probably don't need much in the way of possessions and for your brother and sis-in-law, they're still young so have years to recoup what was lost. Doesn't make it fun or any easier, but what can you do?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Just saw Cowboy's pic scrolling across. What a handsome dog he is! How's he doing, I bet he's going to be packing on the pounds with the cooler weather coming in! 

How are your parents & brother doing? Hope life is back to normal for them (& you!).


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy is just a special fella...a pain in my behind sometimes lol....but a special fella!    








Fairly recent...couple months ago I think.  I swear the Nubian at the gate has gained 20 lbs since this pic was taken...she puts everything in the pail.   Look at the right of the pic.   See the Nubian buck with his head through the fence...see the black doe laying down that he's talking to. Look right behind her and see the itty, bitty baby pygmy buck?  He's my "herd sire" this year, LOL!  He goes through all the panels and I just don't have time to care right now!

Mom and dad are still with me.  Challenges and rewards abound.  Looking at assisted living facilities - but very preliminary right now.  They won't be going "home."  

Thanks for asking!



FEMA is giving me the run around... I have to file an appeal.  FEMA gave my brother nearly 20K to repair his home.  My parents house - right next door - they awarded them right around 3K.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya may have to get that little fella a pair of Stilts if he is going to be the "Service Master" for ya....he sure is a nice looking little man....Cowboy has gotten a bit bigger since the last pic I've seen. I understand the challenges and rewards...and the position ya can be in dealing with that situation....
I won't even get started on the gov't dealings...
Sure hope things level out for ya some and there will be more Rewards than challenges....still praying for ya!!


----------



## babsbag

Here I was thinking you had only Pygmies when what to my wondering eyes did appear? ...beautiful spotted Nubians. Don't let @ragdollcatlady see those spotted beauties...she's addicted to spots. 

Sorry about FEMA. Sometimes they make no sense...most of the time.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Did someone say spots???? Nice looking goats... I love spots and nubians and I see both!

On goats, spots are actually just champagne bubbles..... As soon as I see them I get a little lightheaded, kinda dizzy, start to feel really good and then my money just floats away and the spotted goats follow me home and I live happily ever after! The end!!!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

LOL - yep - I got spots!   I had to have Nubians to make Kinders, so I found myself with some of those big floppy eared goats.  Then I needed a big floppy eared buck too - and he brought us all those spots and UDDERS.  He is definitely an udder buck and he's made amazing improvements in just one generation.  

This is why I have so many goats, lol.  I'm basically running three herds...and thinking about adding a Kiko buck.    Somebody stop me....


----------



## Southern by choice

GW saw the lil pygmy- mmm hmmm she said one day we have to have one of those.  

I couldn't agree more! 

Cowboy and Tiggs look a lot alike but Tiggs has no mask and is liver brindle...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Southern by choice said:


> GW saw the lil pygmy- mmm hmmm she said one day we have to have one of those.


Gotta admit that the 'cute' factor is pretty high in pygmies!


----------



## babsbag

@Southern by choice   you need to add some spotted Nubians to live with Ruby.

Kinders are Pygmy x Nubian but isn't the sire a pygmy? So are you  using the Nubian buck just to improve the does you use to "make" kinders?  Or do you breed Kinder does to a Nubian buck?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> Kinders are Pygmy x Nubian but isn't the sire a pygmy? So are you using the Nubian buck just to improve the does you use to "make" kinders? Or do you breed Kinder does to a Nubian buck?


All of the above.  Never intended to breed a Kinder to the Nubian buck - but stuff happens.  My Kinders are good sized goats - not as tall as a Nubian, but they have big barrels and the one first freshener doe bred to the Nubian buck was just fine.  And, she had a big single doeling.


----------



## babsbag

Stuff happens for sure. I just had my 12 year old herd matriarch stand up and get bred...in a NY minute. I didn't even know that she was in heat or Jumanji would not have been let out of his "cell".  Here comes the lute.


----------



## Baymule

I love the moon spots! And I love Cowboy! Both of them in one picture!!!!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Loved the pic, and I saw that tiny little Pygmy right away. They are so adorable! 
I would probably just carry one around though  At the State fair there was a Pygmy show going on. Some were done seriously nice looking goats and oh so tiny! 

Cowboy looks great! 

So sorry about your parents house- I just can't imagine. You are a great daughter


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Thanks GW!   Chester (the pygmy) is a doll - and full of personality!  

Cowboy - he's a bonifide "mess"!  But still a great boy. 

There is a fella right down from me that raises sheep and his pasture butts right up to my pasture.  Well - silly guy got a new dog (boxer) and keeps him in his pasture with his sheep.  Cowboy and Maddie were absolutely AGHAST that there is another dog just a fence away from "their" goats.   Wow - the first day the new dog was out there was absolutely awful.  Cowboy and Maddie would run to the dividing fence - cuss that dog out - and then run the goats back to the barn.  Cowboy spent a lot of time staying right with the herd for the next week or so.

So glad that this guy has a heavy duty six foot chain link fence on that side.  I really don't want Cowboy committing murder on somebody else's "lgd"!  A coyote, stray dog, or bobcat is another story!   Speaking of coyotes... another neighbor said he saw one cross the road right in front of our house...coming from the direction of our house a couple nights ago!  YIKES!  Mom has been complaining that the dogs are barking a lot at night.  I'm guessing that's why!


----------



## Baymule

LGD's barking at night is music to my ears. That's probably why the coyote was running AWAY !!!!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy has a new kid!!!! He loves his new kid. He loves his new kid enough to jump the fence and go visit him every time the kid is out! This is the little boy next door. Cowboy just loves him - and he loves Cowboy!










They are kind enough to put a little rope on him and hold him for me too!


----------



## Southern by choice

Awwww. Guess he wants a "family life" too! 
 Years ago we had neighbors whose dog would come everyday to visit. We started letting her in the house... playing with her in the yard. Loved her!.


----------



## Bruce

Doesn't look like they need to tie him up, I think he'll stick to the little boy like glue.


----------



## Mike CHS

Those are awesome pictures.  Looks like Cowboy has his head down like he's in trouble.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Mike CHS said:


> Looks like Cowboy has his head down like he's in trouble.


It may be because of the rope - he's feeling a little guilty, lol.  But, he's so very submissive to 'little' things that might be part of it too.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

And, Cowboy has the best Christmas present EVER!  A brand new electric fence charger thingy....   I've hesitated because of the kiddos next door - they love to go visit the animals and little T (Cowboy's new kid) is a climber.  I seriously do NOT want him to get bitten by the fence!


----------



## Bruce

He won't get bitten more than once. Best explain it to him well first. Not sure how he can really understand it though, other than "it will make a big owie if you touch it". Might have to learn just how big all by himself.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Our kids have all seen one of the animals or a dog get shocked and know to respect the fence. In fact, they are a little terrified of it and keep their distance!


----------



## Latestarter

I thought that was all part of the fun of farm living... watching unsuspecting kids and animals get zapped... I mean isn't that how most kids learn? You tell 'em and tell 'em... then they go right ahead and do it anyway? Animals you can't tell 'em and they generally learn the hard way. In both cases, they generally learn pretty quick when they do so. Cowboy just has the inclination to protect any "little" thing, animal or child I guess. Still a great dog


----------



## Baymule

I love Cowboy! My dogs love the grand daughters and stick to them like glue. Cowboy knows where to find "kids!" LOL LOL


----------



## Mike CHS

Our livestock and dogs probably have better memories than me since I'm pretty sure only a few of them had to get a single shock to be more careful whereas I've lost track of how many times I've gotten zapped.


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya could always schedule visits and the boy may grow up to be a big helper for ya in a few years....


----------



## Latestarter

Wouldn't that be awesome?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Absolutely!  His older sister wants to learn to milk - as soon as I have goats back in milk....  And, he's already a semi-pro at feeding chickens.   It's nice to have little 'uns next door since my grandkiddos are so far away.  Just delivered their Christmas goodies to 'em.  They're so sweet!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I've been thinking about introducing a Kiko influence into my herd for some time now.  

The newest addition to Cowboy's charges:  Conan!

He's so cool!  Still a bit too young to drive so he's keeping the seat warm.






Just for a size comparison...Conan next to Felix - an adult Nigi buck.






He's roughly 6 weeks old.  I got him at about 36 hours old.  I needed to get a young 'un so I could disbud him.  And, as much as I don't enjoy bottle feeding - he's a joy, lol.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure looks like he will have some size to him....howd the little pygmy do for ya?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Congratulations! That is awesome. 
Kikos are great goats. I hope he does well for you!

If it were up to me, I’d disbud them too


----------



## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> howd the little pygmy do for ya


Chester is a hands-on sentimental favorite!  He's still a little bitty guy who thinks he's 10 feet tall, lol.


----------



## Baymule

I think Conan should have the keys to that bodacious mowing machine so he can get the yard done. It's nice to have a little help around there!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

All he's missing is a beer for the cupholder, lol!  However, I do NOT share my mower with anyone.  It's all mine, complete with rugs in the foot rest area so I don't get it muddy, lol!


Goat Whisperer said:


> If it were up to me, I’d disbud them too



I think their horns are beee-U-teee-ful!  (in somebody else's pasture)


----------



## OneFineAcre

Conan is a handsome looking fellow.
Congrats on the new addition.


----------



## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


> However, I do NOT share my mower with anyone.


Glad to hear it, I wouldn't want a goat taking the lazy way out keeping the lawn in check.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Decided to brag on another great dog at my place:  Gracie!   She is an English Shepherd - farm dog extraordinaire!

This morning she slipped out with me to feed.  Usually I don't take her with because she's so busy hunting for vermin that the goats get a little nervous.  But, today she insisted!   About two seconds later I hear her excited little yelp and look over at the area around the nest boxes where two broodies are sitting rather unsuccessfully and now I know why.  Maybe they'll have more luck now that there's one less possum in the world!

Yay Gracie!!


----------



## Mike CHS

I really really don't like possums.  Good girl Gracie!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

She gets lots of rats, but this is her first "big" kill that I know of....


----------



## Bruce

Aren't possums just big rats?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bigger and uglier for sure!


----------



## Baymule

Give Gracie a steak dinner! (or at least let her have the bone out of the T-bone)


----------



## frustratedearthmother

DH cleaned up the possum carcass tonight... that possum was BIG!  After the possum episode this morning I saw a bobcat cross the road a couple houses down from our place. GEEZE!  It wasn't a big one, but sure makes me believe that they are breeding around here!  Glad I've got Cowboy and Maddie guarding the pasture and Gracie to cover the other area.


----------



## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


> I saw a bobcat cross the road a couple houses down from our place


----------



## goatgurl

good girl gracie!!  last year JJ caught her first possum and she was so funny, she did the crunch, crunch, shake, shake thing and all the while her front legs were shaking like a leaf 'cause she had never seen, much less tackled a possum before.  she did good but emma said here let me show you what to do with one of those things and went slappity, slappity, bang bang, bang on the thing to finish it.  and since I never trust that a possum is really dead I went bang at it too.  another one bites the dust.  they got another one out back of my house a couple of weeks ago and this is the possum that JJ got all by herself day before yesterday.  bhaaaaaaa


----------



## frustratedearthmother

@goatgurl  -  It's crazy how they systematically go up and down the body shaking and crunching all the bones as they go....just a tiny bit disconcerting first thing in the morning to hear all those bones being crushed -     But I'll take it if it means another possum gone!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Time for an update!

Remember my new Kiko Conan? (not so new now)






He grew up some....and today he became a daddy for the first time!

Two doelings for New years!



 


Happy New Year ya'll!


----------



## Bruce

Does he still mow with the Z turn?

Congrats on the 2 doelings. They look healthy.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Thanks!  

Conan got grounded off the lawnmower - he wouldn't stop leaving pellets in the seat!  ARGH.

Babies are really sweet and definitely seem nice and healthy.


----------



## Bruce

Hey, if he was mowing the lawn, what is a few pellets?? Lots less work to clean them off than mowing and you could always put a contractor size plastic bag over the seat.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bruce said:


> Hey, if he was mowing the lawn, what is a few pellets??


He was being lazy...drinking too many beers while he mowed.  AND, pellets need to be evenly disbursed across the lawn as he gives it a tidy trim with his teeth!


----------



## Bruce

That works! Definitely don't want him drunk mowing.


----------



## Mike CHS

Those kids look precious.  That is a great New Years Day gift


----------



## Latestarter

Happy new year indeed! Congrats on the new doelings.   Could you please post a couple pics of the journal's namesake and coworker(s)?


----------



## CntryBoy777

Congrats on the twin doelings!!.....guess the little pygmy buck didn't do a bang up job for ya?.....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> Congrats on the twin doelings!!.....guess the little pygmy buck didn't do a bang up job for ya?.....



Chester, the little pygmy buck definitely had a height  challenge, lol.  I never did get around to building him a ramp...  But, he will actually father some kids this year.   He and a Nigi doe  struck up a little, (and I do mean LITTLE), relationship!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Latestarter said:


> Could you please post a couple pics of the journal's namesake and coworker(s)?


Let's see....

Looks kinda lazy doesn't  he, lol.  But, there have been coyotes close EVERY day lately - even in the day time.  Yesterday I had to walk to the back of the pasture because I saw movement back there...can't see that far but it/they were definitely dog sized, greyish critters.  They walked the back of the fence line until I headed out that way.  When I got out there of course they were gone - but there is a definite game trail on the other side of the fence that goes across the back of my pasture and up one side.  The people behind me and to the left of me have let their pastures go wild and the critters are taking definite advantage of the extra cover.

Last night when I was checking on the doe that was about to kid I heard them singing around 2am.  I can imagine that's why Cowboy is looking whupped!






I need to get some fresh pics of Maddie...even though a white dog in this mud isn't so pretty right now!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Mike CHS said:


> Those kids look precious. That is a great New Years Day gift


Thanks so much!


----------



## Baymule

That IS a Happy New Year gift! What are you going to name them?


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Love all the pics. I forgot you had Kikos! Congratulations on the kids! How do you like the kikos? Cowboy looks great.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

These are my first Kiko cross kids so stay tuned.  Conan, the sire, is still a youngster himself...not quite a year old and still growing.  I do like these kids though - they're the strong and silent type.  First kids I've ever had that I've not heard a single peep out of...none of that silly whining while looking for a teat...no screaming when I pick them up for a cuddle.  I like 'em!

Cowboy and Maddie have been working hard lately.  Coyotes are too close and too active.   Even Gracie, the English Shepherd that lives in the backyard/house, has been chiming in on the warning barks.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> That IS a Happy New Year gift! What are you going to name them?


I'm thinking that I'm going to name them "L" names since their mom is Lucy.  Maybe Lacey and Lucky.  I have another doe with a L name so I need to be specific with these.  They have to not only start with "L", they have to have a 'c' and a 'y' so I can keep them straight in my head.  (and my head is a very muddled place, lol!)


----------



## Baymule

I don't follow a naming system. Like everything else I do, it's kinda scattered as the pull of the moon, the direction of the wind and living in the moment moves me.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I’ve been remiss....

Cowboy has been patiently (or not) waiting for kids...




His patience has been rewarded...  he is soooo proud of his new moon-spotted Kiko/Nubian buckling!!




Tah Dah!!
Ever on the alert!


----------



## Mike CHS

Happy for you.  That first picture of Cowboy needs to be in a "Caption This" contest.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Right - it sure makes you wonder what's going through their heads.


----------



## Baymule

I love that dog more every time I see him. He is gorgeous and any time you get tired of him...…..


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> I love that dog more every time I see him.


Me too - he is truly a special fella! 



Baymule said:


> He is gorgeous and any time you get tired of him...…..


No way sistah!  He will be with me until he draws his last breath - or I do.   (But, I'm gonna tell my family to contact you if I fall off the face of the earth.)


----------



## Baymule

Please stay on the earth. But you can will Cowboy to me.....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Thanks! I'm gonna do my best!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Hoping Cowboy has new kids soon!  One of the upcoming FF's had really nice udder development today.


----------



## goatgurl

cowboy is such a handsome dude.


----------



## Baymule

goatgurl said:


> cowboy is such a handsome dude.


Hands off! He's MINE!  Line forms to the left.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy has another kid this morning!  After being up most of the night dealing with DH's blood sugar issues.... I walked out this morning to find a new baby and Cowboy laying down as close to the kid as he could get.  Wasn't too close because mama and baby are in a pen and he was outside.  But, he tried.  I had to pick the baby up and hold it so Cowboy could "meet" the new guy.  Gracie was out with me and Cowboy won't even let her near.  He doesn't like her around "his" babies because she's too high energy...he growls at her and she acts broken hearted.

It's another Kinder/ Kiko cross buckling.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Cowboy is a good dog.  Got yourself a keeper there.
Congrats on the kids.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Thanks OFA!


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats!


----------



## Baymule

Congrats on the kid!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I spent hours outside today.  Weather was nice so I got involved in some clean-up at the barn.  I turned the babies out of their pen and they played, and played and played.  Cowboy was watching everything.  Babies were shy for about 2 seconds and then one of them decided that Cowboy was the best plaything EVER.  He was a wrestling buddy, a trampoline and a chew toy all rolled into one big hairy body.  This baby loves Cowboy - and Cowboy loves him back.


----------



## Mike CHS

Awesome pictures.  POW submission for sure.


----------



## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


>


Looks like POW material to me!


----------



## Baymule

I love Cowboy!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Couldn’t resist- I must’ve taken a gazillion shots.
Airborne goat using Cowboy as the launching pad:


 

Best of friends!





Last one, (no promises, lol) 

Nap time
Or
Whatcha hiding in that ear?:


----------



## Baymule

That last picture is adorable. You could just keep posting pictures of Cowboy.


----------



## Bruce

OK, that last one should get you Picture Of the Month!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> That last picture is adorable. You could just keep posting pictures of Cowboy.


I'm telling ya - I sat down on a bucket to rest from some barn cleaning and I didn't stop taking pictures for at least a half an hour!  I've never had a 3 day old baby that animated and literally fearless - and Cowboy was  eating it up!  He loves, loves, loves the babies!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Had one of "those" births yesterday that are not good - not good at all.  Third freshener Noir - Kinder doe - who has popped her babies out with absolutely no issues in the past had a not so good, very bad day yesterday.  She went into labor and wasn't progressing at all.  I went in to check and found two baseball bat size legs and the tip of a nose trying to exit.  I let her try a couple more pushes but she was putting everything into it and making zero progress.  I tried to apply some pressure and help her but it became very apparent that it was just not going to happen.  I struggled to put a foot back inside to lessen the bulk that was trying to exit all at once.  Finally got the foot back and still had to pull harder than I ever had to get that baby out.  Things were stretching and popping and I didn't hold out much hope that I wasn't damaging the baby.  While I was working on her another baby was presenting.  He was all tangled up in the placenta and DOA.  I've never had one happen quite like that.  I weighed him before disposal and he was 9.8 lbs.  

Cowboy was not happy about the situation.  He was right outside the pen.  He seemed to get more distressed as the doe became more distressed.  Maddie tried to walk through the aisle of the barn and he was having no part of any other dog getting near "his" doe and baby.  He laid into Maddie and rolled her out of the barn...geeze.  I'm glad he wasn't taking it out on me!  Every time I went out to check on them he was laying right next to the pen.  He wasn't taking his eyes off of that baby.

The baby has a really wonky back leg - absolutely no stability at the hock and it bends every which direction like a piece of wet spaghetti.  It's a bit unnerving to see it bending in the wrong direction.  I put a little wrap on it to try to give it some stability-did a lousy job and need to re-do it when I have a holder.  It's already tons better than it was at birth.  She wasn't able to get up by herself for most of the day yesterday.  Today, less than 24 hours later,  she jumps up and moves pretty well.

The not-so-little troublemaker:


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Wow! Glad you were able to help along. I dare say that leg will turn out fine after some use and stretching.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad you were able to help, sorry about the rough kidding!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

That kid is big and very lucky to have you assist. ...congratulations . So sorry for the lost one....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Can't get over Cowboy's devotion to this kid!  He will NOT leave her side and stays as close as possible.


----------



## Mike CHS

The doe doesn't seem to mind.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

They really trust him...this is kind of a spooky doe and she doesn't want him much closer...but he will literally creep on his belly to get as close as he can, lol.


----------



## Bruce

Guess Cowboy knows she needs extra protection until her leg is strengthened up. Sorry you lost the one, that doeling sure is pretty.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Thanks @Bruce, I think she's pretty too.  I set her down next to a two week old buckling this morning - she's the same size!  @Baymule named her for me.  She said in her best Texas drawl.. "that doeling is bigger than Dallas."  I can't argue with that!  So - her name is Dallas.


----------



## Bruce




----------



## Baymule

I love Cowboy!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Good boy Cowboy!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Good boy Cowboy.
I think we are going to have to wrap one of Eclipse's boys legs and give some selenium.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

OneFineAcre said:


> I think we are going to have to wrap one of Eclipse's boys legs and give some selenium.


I've never had a  baby with this particular affliction.  I've given selenium and she is better...but seems to be slow progress.  Hope your little guy gets better.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I know it feels good to have such good "helpers" and they enjoy each's interaction....Cowboy sure has developed into a really fine guardian....and Beautiful to boot!!.....
If the leg heals....ya may have to keep her to see how she develops....the kid that is...I know Maddie taught Cowboy a few things too....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> Cowboy sure has developed into a really fine guardian....and Beautiful to boot!!.....


Thanks!  And, I agree whole-heartedly, lol.


CntryBoy777 said:


> If the leg heals....ya may have to keep her to see how she develops....the kid that is...


My guess is she's a keeper.  Leg is slowly improving.


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## Goat Whisperer

Does it look like a luxating patella? Where the leg bends backwards? We’ve had bunches of kids like that- the quads and quints are usually the worth for it, if if there was a nasty jumbled up mess that took work to be born. After a week or so it seems to work itself out. We had a few that were really bad years ago and we had to stabilize the entire leg. All the goats turned out fine


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## Mike CHS

It does get crowded in the belly.  The ewe lamb that had the weak pasterns is perfectly normal now and growing like a weed.  A member in one of the Facebook groups that I follow posted a picture of a ewe with 6 lambs born a couple of days ago.  She has deliver 20 lambs in 4 years


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## Bruce




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## CntryBoy777

Talking bout "Counting" sheep!!........


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## frustratedearthmother

Mike CHS said:


> 20 lambs in 4 years


  What a ewe!


Goat Whisperer said:


> Where the leg bends backwards?


That leg bends every which way a leg shouldn't bend, lol. Sideways - backwards...creepy, lol.  But, I took the wrap off of it today and while it's still a bit unstable from side to side - it's soooo much better.  She even jumped around a bit - YaY!!!


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## goatgurl

hope bbgirls leg straightens itself up.  i'm guessing it will.  cowboy just makes me smile, he's grown into some kinda good dog.


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## Goat Whisperer

Glad the kid is doing better! Did that adorable Pygmy kid yet?


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## frustratedearthmother

She did!  Two doelings but one DOA....    Terrible picture - but all I have right now. I pulled her out of the kidding pen and plopped her down outside in the sun - cute little elf ear and all!  I've taped that ear twice and mama pulls it off - so she may have a permanent elf ear lol.   She's all of 3 lbs and looks like a tiny little wind-up toy!


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## Mike CHS

She is a cutey


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## CntryBoy777

Does she come from the line of your avatar?.....she is Precious!!.....


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## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> Does she come from the line of your avatar?.....she is Precious!!.....


She does - but waaaaay back down the line.


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## frustratedearthmother

Cowboy has a new batch of kids!  This little one was born yesterday morning and is the last one this year.  Finally!


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## Baymule

That is a great picture. A cutie pie kid and Cowboy! You know I love Cowboy!


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## CntryBoy777

It sure is Good to see him again and I know he is Happy to have more bundles of energy to watch springing around....


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## frustratedearthmother

CntryBoy777 said:


> It sure is Good to see him again and I know he is Happy to have more bundles of energy to watch springing around....


Thanks, he's the best babysitter ever!


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## shuvasishphotography

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