# i think my 4 month old goat was overwormed.  Please help, new owner!



## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

The day after he was wormed, I picked him and 7 others up.  He was showing signs of lathargy.  2 days later, his 3rd eyelid is still showing and is very white.  still lathargic but he is eating and drinking water with electrolytes.


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## redtailgal (May 26, 2012)

What was he wormed with and how much was given?

The white in his eye is anemia, he should have some red cell. I use the equine red cell, and I get it at my nearest farm store.

Sigh, I cant remember dosages right now, I'll have to check.

There should be some more goaty folks on here soon...........


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## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

THANK YOU!!!  HEADED TO THE FEED AND SEED NOW!!!!


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## ksalvagno (May 26, 2012)

First you need to find out what he was wormed with and how much and how often. Then I would take a fecal into the vet and have a fecal done including coccidia. I would also give him some probiotics like Probios or even yogurt. Red Cell can help but you also need to make sure you are removing the source that is causing the anemia.


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## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

OK, i HAVE GIVEN HIM SOME RED CELL.  I WILL GIVE HIM SOME YOUGART FOR NOW AND AKE A FECAL IN mONDAY.  
2 OTHERS SEEMED TO HAVE A REACTION RIGHT AFTER THEY WERE WORMED BUT THEY R UP ANND RUNNING NOW.
THEY WERE WORMED WITH PANACUR FOR GOATS 1 MONTH AGO AND WITH CEDICTIN 3 DAYS AGO.
WILL THE FECAL DETERMINE WHATS CAUSING THE ANEMIA?


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## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

SORRY, THE WORMER IS CYDECTIN.


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## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

HIS EYES R STARTING TO RUN.  PLEASE HELP ME SAVE MY GOATY!!!  IM ABT TO FEED YOUGART!


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## SmallFarmGirl (May 26, 2012)

Sorry I can't help you. Can you call the vet?


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## 20kidsonhill (May 26, 2012)

It is unlikely he is having a reaction to the wormer, it is more likely he is still wormy or carrying a heavy coccidiosis load. Or was very wormy before being wormed and is still just not doing real well. Anemia takes some time to recover from. 

I would look into treating for coccidiosis, Then couple sicker ones may need some antibiotics. 

How old are they?


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## redtailgal (May 26, 2012)

If he is eating on his own and drinking, the best thing you can do is give him the redcell, which you have already done, and then let him rest awhile

Anemia makes one very tired, and he does need to rest.

Yes, the fecal and help determine what is causing the anemia.  Take it in as soon as you can on Monday, and in the meantime, keep him in a dry place with plenty of fresh water (watch to see that he drinks occasionally) and let him rest.

How much of those wormers was he given?  ( I dont think it sounds like an overdose, personally)


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## elevan (May 26, 2012)

If he is 4 months old, showing anemia and just dewormed with Panacur and Cydectin then I strongly suspect coccidia.  I highly doubt it was overdose of dewormer, it's not a common thing as most have a decently high safety margin.

Options listed here:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-coccidia-goat

If you're in the States then your vet isn't likely to be open Monday as it's Memorial Day.  I'd go ahead and start treating right away.

We give Red Cell here at a dose of 6 ml / 20-30# every 6-8 hours for 24 hours, then once per week until better.  It can take weeks to recover from anemia.

I also want to make sure that you're looking at the eyelid right when determining that they are "white"...some people don't even realize that they're doing it wrongly.  Here is a good slideshow to help you understand the technique:  http://www.slideshare.net/schoenian/worm-diagnostics

Give Probiotics (or yogurt) in heavy doses.


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## lunaflora (May 26, 2012)

I agree with previous posters that you should treat for coccidia, and that it is unlikely to be a wormer overdose. If it is related to the wormer, it could be that the kid is experiencing a massive worm die-off, paired with anemia which takes time to correct. B12 and iron are what you're getting the kid with Red Cell, but Red Cell also has lots of other things...a more direct approach would be to get injectable iron (OTC) and injectable B12 (Rx), or I use sub-lingual B12 pills for humans, which are inexpensive, OTC, and taste good.  Just don't give iron pills because they upset the stomach. Otherwise, until you can get to a vet, you are just supporting the immune system....probios, electrolytes, make sure there is access to clean fresh hay, water, feed, *baking soda*, minerals....I'd also give a dose of BoSe, but since that's a prescription item so if you don't already have on hand you won't be able to give until Tuesday. 

Good luck!

Shosha
Chapel Hill, NC


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## lunaflora (May 26, 2012)

And thanks, elevan, for the slideshow. Body condition slide is very useful.


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## elevan (May 26, 2012)

lunaflora said:
			
		

> And thanks, elevan, for the slideshow. Body condition slide is very useful.


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## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

HEY YALL!!  I THINK GOATY HAS JUST MADE IT OVER THE HILL.  HES STARTING TO GET A LITLE COLOR IN HIS THIRD EYELIDS AND WENT FROM ME MAKING HIM TAKE A SYRINGE FULL OF YOUGART OR ELECTROLYTES TO ASKING FOR IT!  HE IS STILL VERY TIRED AND I LET HIM REST BUT I WAS SCARED TO LET HIM STAY DOWN TOO LONG!!
MY QUESTION NOW IS, HOW DO I KNOW IF HE NEEDS ANTIBIOTICS?  THE PEOPLE I GOT HIM FRM SAY HE WAS ON A WORMING PROGRAM (ALONG WITH THE OTHER 7 I GOT), SO HOW WUD HE HAVE GOTTEN SO ANEMIC?


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## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

IF ITS COCCIDIA, ARE THE OTHERS IN DANGER AND Y ARENT THEY SICK?  ONE IF THE GIRLS SEEMED VERY TOXIC AFTER WORMING AS WELL BUT BOUNCED BACK.


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## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

ANOTHER THING.....THE EYE MEMBRANES WERE SNOW WHITE, INCLUDING HIS, WHAT I CALL (FROM WORKING WITH DOGS AND CATS) THIRD EYELID WHICH SEEMED MORE PROMINATE THIS MORNING.  NOW, ITS STILL THERE BUT NOT AS BAD!!!
btw, THANKS FOR THE SLIDE SHOW AND ALL THE INFO EVERYONE HAS OFFERED!  i NEVER KNEW ANYTHING LIKE THIS WAS AVAIL!!!


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## elevan (May 26, 2012)

You keep talking about the "third eyelid"... What you need to look at in goats is the inside of the *lower *eyelid.

Any goat from 3 weeks of age to 2 years of age is susceptible to coccidia, so yes any of them could get it.  Coccidia can be sub clinical which means that they can have it and not show symptoms.  Sub clinical goats that aren't treated will develop scar tissue in their intestines which make it difficult to process nutrients and you'll have goats that are poor doers.

Deworming on a routine is a bad practice as it breeds drug resistant worms.  Read more here:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt

On the doe that "seemed toxic" after deworming...she may have dumped a heavier load of worms and just felt out of sorts.  I'm sure you've heard the expression, "it gets worse before it gets better"  sometimes after medication there is a window where animals (or humans) feel worse before they feel better (it's called side effects).


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## steph1972 (May 26, 2012)

Thank you!!!  BTW, I am a city girl turned country 7 years ago and its the best thing thats ever happened to me.  I am a vet tech from the city that only saw dogs, cats, birds and some reptiles and rabbits.  I knew as a child that I wanted to b a country girl so as soon as we moved out of the city, I got chickens and still have and love my chickens.  I brought with me a dog, a cat and a horse a husband and a son.  I now have 3 dogs 4 cats plus 3 that I am rehabilitating and will adopt out, 4 horses, including a mini, a rabit, 9 chckens and 6 silkie babies and as of 2 days ago 8 goats!!!  oh, and I still have the husband, my son and a daughter.  
I guess I keep refering to it (the third eyelid)bc it doesnt show in the others.
I do apologize for my ignorance but I really want to learn.  
Ok, so i need to be dosing the red cell to him every few hours at least until I can get him or a fecal sample to the vet?!?!  He ate over 300 cc's of yougart today and was constantly nibbling on grass, hay or feed unless he was sleeping.  He's drinking water well too.  he is urinating and his stool is soft formed little turds, not pellets.  
I really do appreciate ur help!!!


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## elevan (May 26, 2012)

steph1972 said:
			
		

> I guess I keep refering to it (the third eyelid)bc it doesnt show in the others.


Can you clarify?  Are you saying that the lower eyelid (you use your thumb to press just below it to force it to roll downward) is or isn't white / pale?


> I do apologize for my ignorance but I really want to learn.


No need to apologize at all.


> Ok, so i need to be dosing the red cell to him every few hours at least until I can get him or a fecal sample to the vet?!?!


I only dose it consistently for the first 24 hours and then switch to once per week.
6 ml / 20-30# every 6-8 hours for 24 hours, then once per week until better.


> He ate over 300 cc's of yougart today and was constantly nibbling on grass, hay or feed unless he was sleeping.  He's drinking water well too.  he is urinating and his stool is soft formed little turds, not pellets.
> I really do appreciate ur help!!!


"dog logs" those soft formed turds are better than runny diarrhea but are still considered scours.  Your goal is pellets


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## redtailgal (May 26, 2012)

Is there anyway that you could post a pic of the third eyelid you are referring too?


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## sawfish99 (May 29, 2012)

steph1972 said:
			
		

> IF ITS COCCIDIA, ARE THE OTHERS IN DANGER AND Y ARENT THEY SICK?  ONE IF THE GIRLS SEEMED VERY TOXIC AFTER WORMING AS WELL BUT BOUNCED BACK.


Since you just moved all the goats to your farm, you are probably seeing a more pronounced stress reaction on this 1 particular goat.  Parasite impact, including coccidia impact, can be significantly affected by stressful events for the animal (in this case moving).  The other goats may not have been as stressed by the move, or may have a natural higher tolerance to the parasites.  In general, 1/3 of your goat herd carries the majority of the parasite load.  
This goat's reaction is reason to be vigilant and watch the others, but not necessarily reason to "shotgun" meds to the entire herd.


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## steph1972 (May 30, 2012)

I have a heavy load of worms and coccidia.  the vet recommended 1ml iron dextron im and repeat in 14 days.
Corid 20% powder, mix and give 25mg/pound daily for 19 days.
panacur/safegaurd @ 150% of reccommeded dose / day x 3-5 days. 

Wud this be something u wud do?
The Corid says its for bovine, can I give it to my goats?


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2012)

steph1972 said:
			
		

> I have a heavy load of worms and coccidia.  the vet recommended 1ml iron dextron im and repeat in 14 days.
> Corid 20% powder, mix and give 25mg/pound daily for 19 days.
> panacur/safegaurd @ 150% of reccommeded dose / day x 3-5 days.
> 
> ...


YOu can use corid. There are other choices as well for the coccidiosis, albon, sulmet and sulfa-dimethoxine. 
The panacur/safeguard may not be a strong enough wormer, I would use it at 3x the label dosage. I would redo fecals in a couple weeks or if no response switch to a stronger wormer. 

If you just have a couple goats you can use quest Plus for horses at twice the label dosage, that will clean up the worms very well.  Although it may be a good idea to try a weaker wormer first. 

Or ask your vet for a few doses of synanthic.


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## steph1972 (May 30, 2012)

Thank oyu so much for ur response.  
I gave all 8 goats the iron and sfegaurd last evening.
I was abt to order the corid but wud rather do something that u know will work, I am already attached to these guys and they know that I am trying to help them.
the little billy is still down but is eating and drinking.  I stand him up every few hours and he grazes.  I wasnt sure if goats can lay long as horses cannot.  
Any help is greatly appreciated!!!


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2012)

steph1972 said:
			
		

> Thank oyu so much for ur response.
> I gave all 8 goats the iron and sfegaurd last evening.
> I was abt to order the corid but wud rather do something that u know will work, I am already attached to these guys and they know that I am trying to help them.
> the little billy is still down but is eating and drinking.  I stand him up every few hours and he grazes.  I wasnt sure if goats can lay long as horses cannot.
> Any help is greatly appreciated!!!


If you are ordering something for cocci for just a few goats I would order the 40% sulfa-dimethoxine.


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## steph1972 (May 30, 2012)

where do u order ur stuff frm?  I see albon at 5% and a generic but nothingat 40%


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## steph1972 (May 30, 2012)

SDM 40% Injectable, 250 mlSKU:001011-INJ font>Used for treatment of CoccidiaIndications: SDM INJECTION (sulfadimethoxine) is indicated for the treatment of bovine respiratory disease complex (shipping fever complex) and bacterial pneumonia associated with Pasteurella spp sensitive to sulfadimethoxine; necrotic pododermatitis (foot rot) and calf diphtheria caused by Fusobacterium necrophorum (Sphaerophorus necrophorus), sensitive to sulfadimethoxine.Active Ingredient(s): Each mL contains 400 mg sulfadimethoxine compounded with 20% propylene glycol, 1% benzyl alcohol (preservative), 0.1 mg disodium edetate, 1 mg sodium formaldehyde sulfoxylate, and pH adjusted with sodium hydroxide. 

REVIEW SNAPSHOT
by PowerReviews Express
Not yet rated. Be the first to Write a Review

What abt this and do I do it orally or IM?


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## 20kidsonhill (May 30, 2012)

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/di-methox-injection-40/camid/LIV/cp/A2-AE/

I actually don't buy the 40%, we use the 12.5%  in the gallon jug.  
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/di-methox-drinking-water-solution/camid/LIV/cp/A2-DB/


There is also powered, initial cost is cheaper, but harder to store the unused portion. And a little harder to mix. 
http://www.jefferslivestock.com/di-methox-soluble/camid/LIV/cp/A2-DA/


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## elevan (May 30, 2012)

steph1972 said:
			
		

> SDM 40% Injectable, 250 mlSKU:001011-INJ font>Used for treatment of CoccidiaIndications: SDM INJECTION (sulfadimethoxine) is indicated for the treatment of bovine respiratory disease complex (shipping fever complex) and bacterial pneumonia associated with Pasteurella spp sensitive to sulfadimethoxine; necrotic pododermatitis (foot rot) and calf diphtheria caused by Fusobacterium necrophorum (Sphaerophorus necrophorus), sensitive to sulfadimethoxine.Active Ingredient(s): Each mL contains 400 mg sulfadimethoxine compounded with 20% propylene glycol, 1% benzyl alcohol (preservative), 0.1 mg disodium edetate, 1 mg sodium formaldehyde sulfoxylate, and pH adjusted with sodium hydroxide.
> 
> REVIEW SNAPSHOT
> by PowerReviews Express
> ...


Orally


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## steph1972 (Jun 29, 2012)

update on my was "sick little goats"!

The billy died.
i treated with Corid for 20 days in the water.  Wormed with the Safeguard for goats at 3x's the labeled dosage and 2 iron shots 2 weeks apart
I have 7 very healthy goats and nevver realized how anemic they were.  I have checked evveryone almost daily by looking at their eyelids and they all still look great but I saw a dead stringy looking worm in one of the goats booty.  should I just worm him or worm according to the chart for their eyelids?

We are also building them a new place.  Does anyone have any suggestions/pictures for shelter?  Ive heard so man things about having it off the ground and very ventilated.  

I also wanted to thank everyone who got me thru this ever so stressful situation!!  I cudnt have done it without yall!!!


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jun 29, 2012)

*Dead stringy worm sounds like tapeworm. I would de-worm with Valbazen or Cytadine.*


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