# Breeding related sheep - how close is too close?



## bohogardenia

How closely related can a ram be to the ewes he breeds? 

We are trying to decide if we can keep one of our ram lambs from this year, or if we will need to sell him and buy a ram from another flock for next fall's breeding. We bought our ewes already bred and haven't done the breeding thing ourselves yet!


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## boothcreek

Son to mother or father to daughter are fine for breeding.

I have a few ewes that have very linebred pedigrees because I wanted to anchor a few key traits.


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## bohogardenia

What about half-siblings from same ram? Not okay?


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## alsea1

With line breeding a person needs to really watch out. If there are faults then these will be even more defined with the lambs.
If there no faults then it should turn out okay.  However it would be good to bring in fresh blood at some point.
But, if your like me and all the lambs are terminal or will be leaving the place as long as the babies born are healthy and all I wouldn't get too worried


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## Sheepshape

Generally speaking breeding related animals isn't a good idea as recessive genes leading to genetic diseases have a much higher chance of being expressed.

However, some breeders actively choose to breed two related animals with a particularly desirable trait or traits in order to try to preserve the desired feature(s).

Half siblings will probably be OK, though there will be a higher risk of undesired recessive traits. Oh and if you decide to breed related animals this year, get some 'fresh blood' next year.

We swop rams with a neighbour who has an unrelated blood line.


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## bcnewe2

My rule of thumb is father to daughter is ok. Half siblings (same father) has happened here and has turned out ok but I've always heard grandfather to grand daughter is where to draw the line.


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## Bossroo

Most of the stories on inbreeding are just taboos ....  NO  HOLDS BARED in this type of selective  breeding         unless there is an unwanted / detrimental characteristic in the gene pool , then invite those animals with the flaws to a BBQ.


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## OneFineAcre

bcnewe2 said:


> My rule of thumb is father to daughter is ok. Half siblings (same father) has happened here and has turned out ok but I've always heard grandfather to grand daughter is where to draw the line.



I don't understand this.  Why is father to daughter OK, but grandfather to grand daughter not?  Isn't a father and daughter more closely related than a grandfather and grand daughter?


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## bcnewe2

Aren't you doubling up if you breed back the grandfather? Not sure. I have line (read "in") bred and gotten smaller lambs. One time got twins that had horn scur spots that were open. So my rule of thumb is get a new ram every 3 years unless not keeping any ewes back.  I have always looked at it like you are setting traits and sometimes they aren't always good.


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## AshleyFishy

My take on line breeding is aim for what traits you want and cull hard on what doesn't work.


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## OneFineAcre

bcnewe2 said:


> Aren't you doubling up if you breed back the grandfather? Not sure. I have line (read "in") bred and gotten smaller lambs. One time got twins that had horn scur spots that were open. So my rule of thumb is get a new ram every 3 years unless not keeping any ewes back.  I have always looked at it like you are setting traits and sometimes they aren't always good.



OK, maybe it means it's OK to do the father to the daughter, but then not that same animal to his grand daughter.  That would be doubling up.  I get that.


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## bcnewe2

Yes OneFineAcre that was my take on it.  Maybe I said it wrong? But you get it now.


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## bcnewe2

AshleyFishy said:


> My take on line breeding is aim for what traits you want and cull hard on what doesn't work.


 
Yes but the issue is that if there are faults they are being set stronger just like the traits that you want.  To much worry for me. But maybe that's because I've had good rams all along and none really shinned out that I needed to keep using.
My first ram with the sheep I have now had a small head. It wasn't bad but to me looked funny. Still worthy of breeding. One time complaining about it a good friend who runs lots of sheep, she mentioned that it made lambing easier. Yes it has. I have a ram lamb I'm holding out to sell to someone who wants a herd sire.  He is really nice but I see the small head coming out. This is 3 gens down the line. I can't imagine doubling up on those type traits even stronger.
I enjoy the hunt for a good ram.


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## SheepGirl

I have bred father/daughter, mother/son, maternal half siblings, and full (twin) siblings.

I currently don't have any mother/son crosses in my flock, though I did have one for 2 yrs before I took him to auction. Very healthy, never sick, never dewormed. But he was a hay burning wether so off he went lol.

I bred my ram back to his two daughters and I have two lambs on the ground. Both are healthy and growing well.

I don't have any maternal half siblings crosses in my flock right now.

And i have two 2 yr old ewes out of twin siblings in my flock right now. One was bred as a lamb and had a single and gave birth to her first set of twins this yr. Her twin sister just had her first lamb this year but she rejected him. She is also the one ewe I've had the most health problems with (fly strike, fever).


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## Jennifer Hinkle

bcnewe2 said:


> My rule of thumb is father to daughter is ok. Half siblings (same father) has happened here and has turned out ok but I've always heard grandfather to grand daughter is where to draw the line.


This is also what I have Heard


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