# 1mo kid circling, falling and unable to rise, sad update.



## RareBreedFancier (Aug 26, 2012)

Hi all, 

I haven't been on for a while as it's been so busy here but I need some help. One of my kids, a beautiful doeling is staggering, circling and falling over.  She was oxygen deprived at birth and was very slow to stand and nurse (I held her up to nurse the first 7 hours of life) but recovered to seem perfectly normal till I saw her flopping around in the paddock like a landed fish. I took her to the vet as soon as I noticed she wasn't right but they have no idea what is wrong with her.  Her temp is normal, color is good, reflexes are normal and she wants to eat. Vet says she's perfectly healthy... apart from the fact there is obviously something wrong. All they can say is it looks neurological and to take her home and keep an eye on her to see of she gets any better but being neurological it's not likely to end well.  They said the only thing they can find that it sounds like it listeria but she has no fever and older goats get that .  They don't think she's been kicked or headbutted but could have eaten something poisonous. They had been getting lucerne hay and grain in the stables due to bad weather and had only been going out for a few days before this started. Outside is an oaten roll and grazing, rye grass, clover and a few nettles. Nothing out there I think is poisonous. 

I've looked into copper and selenium and also goat polio and listeria and I'm thinking it couldn't hurt to give her thiamine (B1) for goat polio even if it isn't that. 

She was 8.4kg or 18.5 pounds when weighed her in the Vet's office. She's mostly boer with a dash of dairy and the herd is CAE and JD free. 

Thank you in advance for any help.

EDIT to add: Vets don't believe she is in any pain so I'm waiting to see if there is any change. She doesn't appear to be getting better or worse.


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 26, 2012)

I would go ahead and treat w/ Pen G, 1cc per 20# IM 3x a day, and B vitamin, 1cc per 10# 2x a day, thiamine would be even better...
That will cover listeriosis (which can peak a fever then drop, and any age goat can get it), Goat Polio, and an ear infection.

Probiotics as supportive therapy to keep the gut working 1x a day.

Start ASAP.


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Aug 27, 2012)

Thank you so much! I'm back from the vet again, they had thiamine so I grabbed that.  No Pen G, they seem to think she'd be much worse or have already died if it was listeriosis. :/ I hope that means it is goat polio and the thiamine will do the trick. 

As for the probiotics, is active culture yoghurt suitable? The buckets of calf probio's are pricey. Or something else I haven't thought of?


----------



## jodief100 (Aug 27, 2012)

Active culture yogurt will work just fine.  Good luck with your girl.


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Aug 27, 2012)

Thank you! I'll pick some yoghurt first thing tomorrow. 

Quick update, when I went down to check on her I got her up for a drink and held mom (who's decided to kick her off the teat and walk off if I don't ) and after she'd drunk her fill she managed to totter off and pee without spinning around and falling over.  She couldn't do that this afternoon and I was really worried about that so I hope it's a sign she's improving.


----------



## Roll farms (Aug 27, 2012)

I'd still do the Pen G.......


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Aug 27, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I'd still do the Pen G.......


x2


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Aug 28, 2012)

Good news is she's looking a little better already. Steadier on her feet and not circling unless she gets stressed or someone bumps into her. Actually managed to get herself up this morning and can now pee without moving around too. 

How long do you give the Pen G for? My neighbor keeps it on hand so I didn't have to go back to town to get it.


----------



## GoatCrazyLady (Aug 28, 2012)

I'm so glad She's feeling a bit better. keep us posted


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Aug 28, 2012)

RareBreedFancier said:
			
		

> Good news is she's looking a little better already. Steadier on her feet and not circling unless she gets stressed or someone bumps into her. Actually managed to get herself up this morning and can now pee without moving around too.
> 
> How long do you give the Pen G for? My neighbor keeps it on hand so I didn't have to go back to town to get it.


2 or 3 times a day for 5 to 7 days. towards the end of the treatment I am bad about giving it just one time a day.


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks, I wasn't sure how much I was going to need when my neighbor asked me so I just drew up enough for a few days. 

I feel so mean turning her into a pin cushion but she is looking a bit better and still eager to eat so...


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Sep 3, 2012)

Very sad update. She was doing better, well enough for me to go to town thinking she'd be fine for an hour or two. Unfortunately while I was away she managed to escape from the stable she was left in with her mother and brother and was injured and had to be euthanized. 

I have noticed today her brother seems 'not himself' lying down a lot, tilting his head and leaning to one side, doing the odd circle. I'm worried he's got the start of the same thing happening. Just wondering if any deficiency could cause these symptoms? I'm going to start him on the same treatment as his poor sweet sister but I'm worried I might be missing something.


----------



## ksalvagno (Sep 3, 2012)

I'm sorry about your doeling. 

What exactly have your kids gotten so far concerning shots, supplements, etc.?


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Sep 3, 2012)

So sorry.    It does sound like listeriosis but I have never seen it firsthand or know much about the medication used to treat it..


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Sep 3, 2012)

Thank you for the hugs. 
Shots and supplements? Erm... nothing... 

The local store is ordering me in a smaller quantity of 5-in-1 vaccine as they only stock it in larger packs. Everyone will get their shots as soon as it comes in. 

They get a horse supplement Equilibrium Mineral Mix Composition free choice as I can't find any loose goat minerals here, only sheep and goat or horse and goat blocks. 

The does have been getting 2 measuring cups of muesli style goat feed in 1/2 gallon of lucerne chaff each night. Lucerne hay free choice at night for those locked up prior to kidding and with kids. Oaten hay free choice at all times outside. The grazing is good (spring here now!  ) and they get hand harvested weeds each day. I do want to get a soil test done to check the mineral balance but I haven't got it done yet.

Kids aren't eating much apart from a little nibble of grass and they haven't been wormed yet.


----------



## ksalvagno (Sep 3, 2012)

I wouldn't be surprised if they need a BoSe shot (selenium). The other thing would be the CDT shot. What is the 5 in 1 shot exactly?

Looking at your mineral, the copper may be low too. Do they have any type of cow mineral?


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Sep 4, 2012)

Ultravac 5in1 Quote: "Provides rapid and effective protection against dangerous clostridial diseases including tetanus, blackleg, pulpy kidney, malignant oedema and black disease." I assume that's pretty much your CDT?

Cow mineral for sure available, it's a dairy area. Not sure if I can find it in lose form but I know they sell blocks locally. What % copper should I be looking for? The horse mineral has more than the sheep and goat or horse and goat blocks I looked at. I do also happen to have straight copper left from when I used to mix my own horse minerals so adding some might be an option but I was worried about overdosing them. I've read of people leaving it out free choice but thought that could be a recipe for disaster if they are deficient and they gorged on it.

The vet didn't seem to think they would need selenium when I asked a while back when I had a kid with weak back legs and said I shouldn't give it without blood tests first. I didn't end up getting the blood test as the kid was ok the next day. I think giving them one would make me feel better though, I can't imagine a single shot would hurt and if it made them feel better it would be more than worth it.


----------



## ksalvagno (Sep 4, 2012)

Yes, the 5 way will take care of things.

Cargill Onyx mineral is a really good loose mineral. http://www.cargill.com/feed/species/beef-cattle/Products/right-now-minerals/right-now-onyx/index.jsp  Definitely don't put out copper free choice for the goats. You could add a little more copper to the horse mineral but if you could get the Onyx mineral instead, that would be better.

Many vets claim that you need a blood test done for selenium but you really don't. You do have to be careful about overdosing but certainly 1 shot will not hurt anything.


----------

