# What happens after the show?



## farmchick

I am getting some lambs that I will show in a Market class at the county fair in August. I don't know much about how the show works. So in things like bull or pig shows, the animal is butchered afterwards, do you butcher a lamb after the show? If it is butchered, do you HAVE to? Or could you just take it back home, and keep raising it so you could show it in Breeding classes?


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## goodhors

If you are in 4-H, the Fair usually offers you the option of selling your market lambs at the Fair Auction of market animals.  These could include the big steers, goat kids, pigs, lambs, turkey, rabbits, geese, ducks, chickens, that are commonly eaten.  

The folks buying are usually good payers, spend more for 4-H or FFA to support the kids than the local market would sell the animals for.  We have terrific local buyers for our Fair Auction.  And usually the animals are superior in condition, fitness, than the usual run of market animals, so the meat is better too!  The Grand Champions, Reserve Champion animals often have photo of buyer, kid, animal in the paper for advertising.

Some laws can control what animals sell.  In Michigan, any pigs taken to Fair are REQUIRED to go to be processed afterward.  NO ONE is allowed to take them home to prevent spread of disease to home herds.  This is the law, you can't get around it with pigs.

Other livestock usually allows exhibitor to take their animal home if they wish.  However any rules are SPELLED OUT in the Fair Book of classes and how they are run, which rules will prevail.  So READ your species rules BEFORE taking an animal to the Fair.  Then fill out the appropriate paperwork to SELL or NOT sell, as needed.  One local Fair requires market class cattle that win to be sold, has had problems with exhibitors not knowing the rule.  Exhibitor lost all ribbons and money premiums because they refused to sell that animal.

So read the book, learn the rules clearly, before jumping in.  Again, here in Michigan, if a pig is unloaded at the Fair grounds, he can't be put back in a personal trailer once his feet touch the ground.  This is called a "Terminal Show" because after Fair ends, ALL PIGS go to be processed.  State Law.  And like the old saying, "Ignorance of the law is not going to excuse you from the results" so you have to live with those rules here.


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## 20kidsonhill

At our fair you have to run all 4H animals through the auction, but they don't have to go on the slaughter truck. The buyer has the option of taking the animal home. We can't buy back our own animal, but it doesn't take much to figure out you can get someone to buy it back for you, ofcourse then you don't make any money on the animal.


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## farmchick

Okay, I looked it up. If your sheep places Champion or Reserve Champion in anything, you have to auction it. Darn.. Thanks anyway though


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## farmchick

Now wait a minute? Sorry guys, I'm confused, and I want to have this right. This is what it says in my fairbook, does this mean I will have to sell it? Or its an option?

Market entries in Beef, Sheep and Swine are eligible for the auction.
Exhibitors have two options when selling the livestock:
1. Exhibitors can sell the premium only. Ownership does not change hands as the exhibitor
will retain ownership of the animal for future shows i.e. State Fair or Aksarben.
2. Exhibitors can sell the premium plus the animal. This option allows the buyer to
purchase the premium and the animal. The price of the animal will be determined by a
local packer price on the day of the sale. The animal price will be paid to the exhibitor
in addition to the premium that is auctioned at the sale.
Exhibitors can choose either option and will be noted in the sale catalog.
Exhibitors can sell one unit in the auction.
A unit is described as: 
1 Market Beef (steer or heifer)
1 Sheep or Pen of Three
1 Swine or Pen of Three
In the event of an exhibitor having one or more qualifying exhibit the exhibitor
can elect to combine the units into one sellable lot/unit. (Example: champion swine and
champion sheep).
Eligible units are defined as follows:
Sheep: 15 units will participate in the auction.
 Champion Market Sheep Reserve Champion Market Sheep
 Champion Heavy Weight Division Reserve Heavy Weight Division
 Champion Middle Weight Division Reserve Middle Weight Division
 Champion Light Weight Division Reserve Light Weight Division
 Champion Breeders Class Reserve Champion Breeders Class
 Champion Rate of Gain Sheep Reserve Rate of Gain Sheep
 Champion Pen of Three (market only) Reserve Pen of Three (market only)
 Beyond these champions the judge will determine the balance of the sheep participating
in the auction by ribbon placing and selection up to 15 units.

Auction order is as follows for 2011: Sheep, Swine, Beef. Future auctions will be
in rotation of this order ie. 2012: Swine, Beef, Sheep. 2013: Beef, Sheep, Swine. etc
The grand and reserve overall champions (beef, sheep, and swine) will sell first.
Each species will sell all the remaining units in that species after the six champions are sold.


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## goodhors

Haven't a clue.  Never heard of selling the Premium or the livestock processor setting the price!!

Here selling Fair Market animals is is just an Auction.  Any buyer can bid and pay for the animal, even family.  Kid may keep or give ribbon to buyer, which is good politics for those buying the Grand or Reserve Champion animal for the BIG money.  Buyer then displays ribbon all year showing Community Youth support, good publicity.

Our own Fair does limit kids to selling two large market animals, could be a steer and pig, steer and prospect beef calf, two lambs sold individually, couple pigs.

Goats and poultry are Small Animals, don't count in total sold with above animals.

Other Fairs allow kids to sell all their market animals, no limit.  This is why reading the Fair Book should give you a clue.  My daughter brought one lam home last year, sold the bigger lamb and her Prospect Beef calf at the Auction.  Buyers bid as high as they want, kids pay a selling fee, then get all the money paid for each animal.  Sure doesn't seem like you would make much if processor is charging "market price" on the animals!!

Some animals can sell VERY well, several dollars the pound for Grand and Reserve.  Kids letting them go for market price would face a huge loss of cash!!  Our kids anticipate that Sale money for college in the future, buying the next set of project animals for next year.  Certainly no incentive to do things thru the Fair if buyer need only spend "market price" to get their good animals.

Do you have a Fair Office?  I would call the Office, or Extension Service, whomever manages the 4-H program, to explain the rules to you in DETAIL.  I am unwilling to even guess on the meaning of those rules because I am not familiar with the "Premium" as it is stated.  Different State, different rules.  

When we got Premiums, the Judge would rate the animal, A-B-C on condtion, preparedness, for your small money award from the State.  ALL the kids got a money award for the Premium, in all classes except Showmanship.  This money Premium was to encourage animal husbandry in the children and keep good stock showing.  We still get the A-B-C ribbon to show how well we presented animal, plus your number place ribbon in class,  but no money except the Auction price selling brings.


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## 20kidsonhill

I read it three times to make sure I was understanding it.  

I think it is saying that you can sell as premium only and not sell the animal, therefore you can take the animal home. 

I don't see anything that says you have to sell the animal because it placed, it talks about selling the animals in a particular order based on their championship status, but doesn't say you have to choose to sell the premium plus the animal because of the championship status. 


Do you understand what they are saying about a premium with or without the animal?


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## farmchick

I don't know what they mean when they say premium.

So they are saying the Grand Champion and Reserve Champion get the opportunity to sell first? If they pass, it moves down?


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## 20kidsonhill

Setting the price by the processor is referring to the price the packing plant has bid on the animals. Before the auction begins packing plants can bid on a per lb basis to buy all the animals that will be sent to processing. 

The premium price is the price that the bidder is paying for the animal at the auction, family member or business person.

the child would get only the premium price if they choos to take the anmial home. referred to as premium only in #1.

The child would get the premum price plus the packers price if they choose to do option #2. They would be letting the animal go to the packer. 

Say the packer bid 1 buck a lb for the lambs. And the child has a 100lb lamb, they will get 100 dollars from the packer for the animal.  
then the animal is sold at auction and a bidder bids 2 bucks a lb for the lamb, the child would then get an additional $200 for the lamb so if they let the lamb go. They would get $300 for the lamb. 


Did that make sense?


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## farmchick

I feel so confused, hahaha.
I understand option 2,
but on option 1, they're getting paid to take it home? Thats what i dont understand.
Thanks for this help though!


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## 20kidsonhill

If they did not let the lamb go, they would get only the $200.   This is called the Premium.

This is what our fair does.


Yes, the fair is going to sell each species in order of championship, after 15 units are sold in order of ribbon status, the remaining animals are not sold in any specific order.  


I would like you to talk to your 4H leader to make sure you don't have to sell your animal, but the way I am reading everyone has the right to choose:

 option #1 (premium without animal(you bring animal home)   

or option #2 Premium plus animal(packer price),

Edited to read better.


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## 20kidsonhill

farmchick said:
			
		

> I feel so confused, hahaha.
> I understand option 2,
> but on option 1, they're getting paid to take it home? Thats what i dont understand.
> Thanks for this help though!


If this works like our fair, and I beleive it does. The person paying the premium isn't actually bidding to take your animal home, they are bidding to support you.They are either a family member of yours, or a bussiness person that you have asked to come out and support you.  They do not take the animal home. They do it for advertisement and to support 4H youth in the community.


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## aggieterpkatie

I have no idea what selling the premium is.  When I was in 4-H and raised lambs and goats, we all had the option of selling whatever we wanted or keeping what we wanted (except maybe grand and reserve).  Anyone could buy the animal, including family.


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## 20kidsonhill

In our area you write up a one page buyer letter. you go around to people and companies in your area that you and your family do business with. You hand delvier if possible a letter asking for their support during the auction.  Like your feed store, place your parents purchased farm equipement from, bank you have money in.  find out from other 4H members and your leader if this is the case.

I have to ask. Are you in a 4H club? FFA in school?  Because around her you have to be to show.


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## farmchick

Im in a 4H club, but this is my first year.
Okay I understand it now! Sounds fair!
Thanks a bunch!


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## 20kidsonhill

I need to go for now, I will check back later if you have more questions.  

Your local  county extension office is another good place to ask questions, along with your 4H or FFA leader.


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## aggieterpkatie

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> If they did not let the lamb go, they would get only the $200.   This is called the Premium.
> 
> This is what our fair does.
> 
> 
> Yes, the fair is going to sell each species in order of championship, after 15 units are sold in order of ribbon status, the remaining animals are not sold in any specific order.
> 
> 
> I would like you to talk to your 4H leader to make sure you don't have to sell your animal, but the way I am reading everyone has the right to choose:
> 
> option #1 (premium without animal(you bring animal home)
> 
> or option #2 Premium plus animal(packer price),
> 
> Edited to read better.


But where is the $200 premium coming from?  I only know premiums as money from ribbons...but $200?   Is your 4-H really giving kids $200 for ribbons?  Our fair was $20 for a first place ribbon.


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## 20kidsonhill

Well that is a good point, if you are reading it as a premium is the money paid just for the ribbons and placement, which I hadn't thought of, then you would get no money if you didn't sell your animal and choose to take it home, unless you placed and received a ribbon. At our fair it is 5th place and Higher receives a small amount of money for placement.  

I was reading it as the premium meant the bid the buyer was making on the animal during the auction to support the 4H member, with the understanding the buyer wasn't actually getting the animal.  
It says;  "1. Exhibitors can sell the premium only."

also, It says:
 "The animal price will be paid to the exhibitor
in addition to the premium that is auctioned at the sale." If they choose to let the animal go. 

It sounds like they are referring to the premium as something that occurs during the auction. Although our fair refers to the premium as the $15 dollars they get for blue, $12 for red, ectt.... that is completly seperate from our auction, so I was thinking their term of the premium is different than the ribbon premium.  


"1. Exhibitors can sell the premium only."

Why would they be referring to selling the premium? Why would they put you in the sales book as Premium only, or premium and animal, if you weren't selling anything?

Now I am confussed.

Our fair doesn't do exactly what these rules are referring to, but I have been to many fairs and it amazes me how different they all are with their auction rules.

Thank you for pointing this out.

Farmchick: my advice to you is to talk to people in your area and have your 4H leader explain to you exactly how the fair auction works.

Let us know what you find out.

Thanks Donna


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## farmchick

Took me a while, but i finally figured it out!
The only auction our fair has is the premium auction.
All the animals who recieve a purple ribbon are put into the auction, and its 'auctioned' off, except you don't actually get rid of the animal, the buyers are just supporting the 4h-er.
They told me last year the average for a sheep was $200!


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