# Going to look at puppys on the 16th!! Pictures up #34 :D



## BlueMoonFarms (Nov 30, 2012)

After talking and poking around at a few goat and sheep farms, we were directed to a farm who breeds Great Pyrenees; who we found out threw talking with them had puppies 
So we decided to go and see them.
There eyes are just opening, but this way we will be able to see there dogs and how they work on the farm and get a feel for what the pups could possibly be like when there older.
The only thing I wanted to ask, that I have been reading mixed opinions on, is how to keep the puppy.
Some say keep them outside with the goats and sheep at all times, some say to keep them in a pen during the day, some say to let them be inside when they want to and outside when they dont; and then some have said to not put them out with the goats or sheep until they are big enough to fight off predators...
So, from your experiences, which one has worked the best? What have you done with your LGD puppy when you first bring it home.


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## terrilhb (Nov 30, 2012)

Good luck. We want pictures. Lots of pictures.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 30, 2012)

You want your dog/s to bond with your goats/sheep. However, an 8 week old pup needs to be protected from such animals because they can kill them. Our new Pups go in a dry lot (with shelter) that runs along the ND goats field. Daily the pups are with the goats-SUPERVISED, so the goats can get a feel for these new creatures and they can get acquainted without incident. As the pups grow they will be able to have that time unsupervised. Poultry is another subject. As far as in/out of the house I think that depends on your farm, size of farm, interactions with people etc. 
 Ex 300-1000acres- These dogs are different-very different from the small acreage, more "backyard" or "ranch" type dog.  Our pups have ALWAYS been acclimated to our home. They have their daily "come in the house" time. One reason is we have house dogs that need to be understood as "family" and not a predator that needs killed.  All dogs MUST get along on our little farm. I will not tolerate any fighting. I would however, recommend the pup sleeping outside from day 1!!! This is very important, the temptation is great to want that cute li guy/girl to come in especially when you first bring him home. This initial routine can cause issues later. Outside only for the first few weeks is iportant, NO INSIDE HOUSE TIME. LGD's are very smart and will learn whining and barking to come in if they interpret from the get-go that the house is their job.  If they learn outside is their area they will enjoy their 20-30 minute inside time but will be begging to get back out. Our 1 pyr is very socialized, he greets all who we introduce him to, he goes on car rides, etc He is our Pyr Spokesdog so to speak. But when he is in one of the fields, well that is a different story. 

Our two males were born 11/23/11 I picked up our first one in Feb, he was 8 weeks old. He was born in a goat barn, with other pyrs around and the goats. We got his brother later, but anyway his coat at 8 wkks was massively thick. He never skipped a beat, we even had a snowfall and he loved it so don't worry bout the cold. Good shelter, hay as bedding and he/she should be fine.

You have very keen sense of looking ahead and determining your end goal. I am so confident in your ability to produce an excellent guardian. Yeah, there will be bumps in the road, there always are. If you play out what you are doing and look at what behavior that is going to result in in 6 months it's easier . You won't be so taken in and owned and trained by your PYR!


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## BlueMoonFarms (Dec 1, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> You want your dog/s to bond with your goats/sheep. However, an 8 week old pup needs to be protected from such animals because they can kill them. Our new Pups go in a dry lot (with shelter) that runs along the ND goats field. Daily the pups are with the goats-SUPERVISED, so the goats can get a feel for these new creatures and they can get acquainted without incident. As the pups grow they will be able to have that time unsupervised. Poultry is another subject. As far as in/out of the house I think that depends on your farm, size of farm, interactions with people etc.
> Ex 300-1000acres- These dogs are different-very different from the small acreage, more "backyard" or "ranch" type dog.  Our pups have ALWAYS been acclimated to our home. They have their daily "come in the house" time. One reason is we have house dogs that need to be understood as "family" and not a predator that needs killed.  All dogs MUST get along on our little farm. I will not tolerate any fighting. I would however, recommend the pup sleeping outside from day 1!!! This is very important, the temptation is great to want that cute li guy/girl to come in especially when you first bring him home. This initial routine can cause issues later. Outside only for the first few weeks is iportant, NO INSIDE HOUSE TIME. LGD's are very smart and will learn whining and barking to come in if they interpret from the get-go that the house is their job.  If they learn outside is their area they will enjoy their 20-30 minute inside time but will be begging to get back out. Our 1 pyr is very socialized, he greets all who we introduce him to, he goes on car rides, etc He is our Pyr Spokesdog so to speak. But when he is in one of the fields, well that is a different story.
> 
> Our two males were born 11/23/11 I picked up our first one in Feb, he was 8 weeks old. He was born in a goat barn, with other pyrs around and the goats. We got his brother later, but anyway his coat at 8 wkks was massively thick. He never skipped a beat, we even had a snowfall and he loved it so don't worry bout the cold. Good shelter, hay as bedding and he/she should be fine.
> ...


Ah ok, that we can do. We already bought  a massive solid wood dog house for the puppy when it gets bigger. We'll just put a pen up around it for the first few months, and put it right up against the goat pen.
I expect issues with chickens, but like all dogs we will just have to train them and wait for the brain cells to kick in.
We are going to be expanding the property line from 4 acres to 10  and putting a nice barn up to!! I cant wait ^^ then we will be able to expand the herd!!
But, until we get everything settled, and then built, we will have the little munchy baby on four acres with three dairy goats and two sheep  Not counting the kids we will have running around from the spring births.  
That will be the hardest part in all honesty, but I am ready and prepared!! Hence the dog house.
I just cant wait to go and see them, they look so cute! But I know they will end up growing into hell raisers, and hopefully they will be able to keep those blasted coy dogs away from my goats. 
Speaking of bedding, we have both hay and thick padded dog beds; which one do you think would be best?
Thank you for your input  As always!


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## Southern by choice (Dec 1, 2012)

I would recommend straw. It is a good insulator and all my LGD's go crazy for it! If you are spreading new straw or carrying hay for feed they go nuts! They love to roll and roll in it. It is quite comical. Also dog beds are something I find very risky. I've seen way too many surgeries on dogs whose intestines were blocked and a sock, towel, pieces of bedding etc were in there.  LGD's coats are quite adequate to keep them warm, do not be surprised if your pup does not go in his shelter. Most pups will go in out for the curiousity of it, or haevy rains.

Our LGD's never touched a chicken til they were about 5 months or so and it really was just a plaything. They were raised with them from pups/supervised. 

Can't wait for pics!


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## CocoNUT (Dec 2, 2012)

x2 on the straw. Gus LOVES it! If I put out hay for the goats...she jumps in and takes it over! In the manger? She doesn't care...she'll get in it and roll around!


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Dec 2, 2012)

It's hard for me to carry hay or straw in my arm if the dogs are around. They LOVE it. If you want to see something funny, get a flake or two and just throw it in the field. The dogs will run and dive into it!! It's quite funny.


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## Alice Acres (Dec 2, 2012)

Yes to the hay or straw as bedding. As mentioned - way too many puppies and even adult dogs chew and swallow their beds and cause obstructions. 
Our 2 outdoor dogs share a house and have soft grassy hay in their dog house.
Also - many dogs chew wood, so it wouldn't hurt to have some metal flashing on hand to put on tasty parts of their house.....


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 2, 2012)

YAY on looking at LGDs!  We are planning to use hay to and it is what we use for our mutt too.  She actually has a nest!  We raked a bunch of straw into a corner of our barn loft to get it out of the way when we were stacking hay.  We noticed she wasn't sleeping in her doghouse downstairs when we went out one morning and found that she had made the huge pile of straw into her own little nest/bed.  She loves it.


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## EllieMay (Dec 2, 2012)

Yes, the dogs love the straw or hay bedding.
Mine love to sleep wedged between the round hay bale and the wall.
There's lots of hay there that falls so it must be a nice cozy spot indeed.
When I brought my pups home, I put them in an area of my pole barn where they slept at night.
During the day they were able to walk about the "immediate" property hanging out with the chickens.
I did not give the pups free range over the entire 15 acres because they will roam that far and try to go farther.
They pretty much slept in front of the pole barn with the chickens during the day.
At night I kept them penned in an area of the pole barn.

Even though mine never killed any of my chickens, I always advise people to watch their puppies around the chickens because chickens can become cute squeaky toys to a dog.


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## CocoNUT (Dec 3, 2012)

HOW AWESOME! LOVE photos of the babies!


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## Shelly May (Dec 3, 2012)

If you can Afford to feed them (ONLY) don't do this if you can't. LGD dogs are always better in pairs,
Hopefully the breeder will already have them exposed to live stock at around 4-5 weeks old, as my 
puppies started walking and trying to follow momma when she went out in the pasture (from the barn 
where puppies where born) they the puppies would try to follow her, if they got scared they would 
run or waddle back to barn, even at 4-5 weeks old, they quickly learned that sheep where nothing to 
be afraid of, if momma isn't scared then we don't have to be scared. they would run right between the
the sheeps legs at 6 weeks old and run in the pasture and play. We never bring the LGD in house, if 
they are guard dogs they need to stay with livestock. We have 5 and we love them all, they are fed
as much as they want, they have all the Vet care they need, but we treat them like LIVESTOCK, they 
get a hello and food and water and a pat on the head or scratch behind the ear then we leave them,
this might sound harsh, but we want them to BOND with livestock and learn to protect them, not become
pets to people, This is IMPORTANT if your dogs bond with your livestock, then you have less or NO 
problems with dogs getting out of pastures, as they do not want to leave there livestock group or flock
they will want to stay with them. Do you understand what I am saying, the dogs become part of the 
flock and if the stock stays in the fence the dogs will too. LGD dogs are big dogs, as they grow lets say at 
6 months old my weighed 75 lbs at this age, they want to play and rough house and because of there size
they need something big to play with. Alot of people have problems with the dogs jumping and play bitting
there livestock and they want to get rid of them ASAP thinking they are bad and most be in that line of
breeding. Not true this is where 2 pups comes in, if you get two then they have each other to rough house 
with and play with and burn off energy. I want to mention that I sell Registered breeding stock and I have
visitors come to the farm alot. My dogs are not mean to humans even with the little attention they get from
us, they love visitors (IN THE DAY TIME) extra scratches that day. At night you would swear they where going
to eat you. Sorry for rambeling just wanted you to know someone elses opinion.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 3, 2012)

Shelly May said:
			
		

> If you can Afford to feed them (ONLY) don't do this if you can't. LGD dogs are always better in pairs,
> Hopefully the breeder will already have them exposed to live stock at around 4-5 weeks old, as my
> puppies started walking and trying to follow momma when she went out in the pasture (from the barn
> where puppies where born) they the puppies would try to follow her, if they got scared they would
> ...


It isn't a matter of the LGD pup being afraid of livestock, that's silly. No offense.  The issue is a goat ,sheep, or any other livestock animal injuring an 8wk old pup. The adult Kiko's that came to our farm had only been around herding dogs to bring them up to the barn. These goats were terrified.  Our pups were already 7 months old, the kikos did try to kill the dogs.  When these pups were 8 weeks, no problem-except for the fact the nigerians would would pound into them too until they adjusted. The goats that is. All the goats here are fine will our 4 LGD's 2 teams, Our dogs are bonded to the goats but only a few goats really love their charges. 

I agree with not raising an LGD in the house, but house time does not prevent the bog from bonding with the livestock or doing its job. These dogs are extremely intelligent, and yes they steal your heart and all that. I have one that I have had many escapades with-my doing of course, but I knew that. Yet no matter what 20 minutes in the house and the dog stands to  the top of the door....he wants back to his field. Two of our dogs could care less about house time. 

I also want to say  how you've raised your guys, I don't think is cruel/harsh/neglectful at all. There is that element of not every dog is a "pet".  Doesn't mean you love them any less or care for the any less.

Dogs are dogs, LGD's are not going to have hundreds of years of breed trait history and instinct all go out of its brain because it comes in the house for a few minutes. I respect your opinion but people also need to be real. I've worked with hundreds of breeds of dogs etc (professionally). If you can "ruin" an LGD with a few minutes of house time then you started out with a messed up dog. 

BTW- We have 3 Pyr's and an Anatolian and a GSD- that doesn't kill our livestock.  Most "LGD" people would say GSD's they will kill your livestock, and they would defend that statement to the death.


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## Shelly May (Dec 3, 2012)

Southern by choice, did you read the part about hopefully the breeder will expose the puppies to 
the livestock before they pick there pup up at 8 weeks old, the momma dog will teach the livestock
not to Charge her puppies when they come out to the pasture with a quick grawl or snap at them 
with no real harm to the livestock, just warnings. the buyer of the pup has already decided to put 
the pup up in a pen for its own protection as it is still small, but pups who are not exposed to livestock
young. And hope that man will protect them will be scared of them and look for man as protection. thus
starting the dog off wrong. I have had 3 litters now and all have been RAISED with livestock. running 
free even at 5-6 weeks old I have never had one stepped on. I have even seen my sheep jump or the
pups to avoid stepping on them. The buyer is going to pen the pup up until their livestock gets used 
to the pup, So as I see it this is not even a issue on there farm. Its amazing how animals of different 
breeds bond to each other if they are suppose to. For example I raise one pig a year to slaughter and 
put in my freezer every year. I buy the pig as a piglet and keep it in the barn for a couple of weeks and 
get it to know what feeding time is ect. Then I turn the piglet loose with sheep, and before you know it 
the pig Bonds with the sheep and now the pig thinks its a sheep and comes to the feed area everyday
at feed time when called to eat pig food seperate from sheep and their food and then turned back out
it runs straight for its buddies the sheep. So with less interaction from people animals bone to each other.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 3, 2012)

I wanted to add something but not really edit.

When I re-read this it did sound a little "aggressive".  

1. I really do not mean it that way...AT ALL!

2. I only wish _one_ of my pyrs (most people on here know which one) WOULD live in the house! Although my one pyr had a bad injury and did live in the house for almost a month...nope there is no keeping from his "job".

3. There are a lot of LGD's (pyr's especially) that are in rescues. These dogs are coming right off the farms, some because of foreclosed farms, some because the people could no longer afford their livestock etc. - Bottom line is these dogs are NOT getting placed because they have been raised in the manner in which you suggest..and as I already stated, there is nothing wrong with that, but these dogs are not as adoptable or adaptable. Even going to an LGD home , these are not their animals and do not always "bond" with the new herd. They are so un-used to people very few are willing to take them on.  Search the rescue sights and you'll see what I mean.

4. Exposing your LGD to other experiences can be a benefit.  I groom all my pyrs, intoduce them to car rides, move them around to other fields and many other things. When a vet does need to see your dog  these things are important,  what about when they need to be transported for something like OFA/PennHIP  x-rays, which I assumed you do if you breed. None of these things have prevented my LGD's from being LGD's. 




Somehow toooooo many people are under the impression if you don't stick them in the field and kind of "leave them alone" that they are somehow going to ruin the dog. I strongly disagree and I also think it sets the relationship with the LGD and human in an iffy place. All LGD's must know the human master is the Alpha- always. Without any more than a pat on the head your (NOT meaning "yours")LGD may believe it is the Alpha. Witnessed this recently, LGD male...female LGD in heat, owner went to seperate  him from her and the dog (18 months) and the dog went nuts on the lady, it was very serious. He was inches from her face, she had to back out of the barn slowly.  Because of children being also on the property the dog had to be put down.

Livestock can kill pups!


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## Shelly May (Dec 3, 2012)

You can find these horrible stories with ALL Breeds of dogs, Pit Bulls are always getting
a bad rap by the general public. Check any adoption center and you will find millions of 
dogs out there in the same boat. The sad stories are not what these people are asking 
you for. Just some advise on how to start the new pup out, what they do after the pup 
has learned that guarding livestock is the main objective then later they can add other 
things. PS my LGD's ride in the sheep trailer to the vet and love it.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 3, 2012)

You missed the point. It's not about sad stories or anything else. I personally am not a big fan of shelters or rescues and yeah I'll probably get slammed on here for that. 
To say that a goat would not or could not kill a LGD pup is ridiculous, and that has NOTHING to do with the pup being introduced to livestock by the breeder. This is about teaching the goat not the dog. Never seen an LGD pup afraid and need to be protected in the way you are suggesting. I will definitely "protect" if you want to call it that, my pup from being gored by my Nigerian Dwarf's sharp pointy horns at 8 wks. old. The one Kiko-big girl, huge horns, will never bond with the dogs ever, and if they get within a foot of her they get slammed but they are well over 110 lbs now(dogs). They also are submissive to the livestock as they are suppose to be. Do they still protect her absolutely. And yes, mine were all raised outside from the start. 

Honestly I think in many ways we are saying the same things and I don't want this to end up being  another shut down nasty thread!
Wording on a keyboard doesn't always convey the tone. 

I want you to know I'm really not being combatative     and with leaving this on what I hope to be a good note... do you do any CHIC testing on your LGD's? ( I guess that depends on what type LGD's you breed) What do you breed. If it's Pyr's I have a question you might be able to help me with but I could always pm you, if your ok with that.


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## Shelly May (Dec 3, 2012)

BlueMoonFarms 

Sorry if we are in disagreement with each other (me and Southern by choice)

Southern by choice no aggression taken or given just exspressing our opinions Right!
so you asked what type of pyrenees I raise, Just good healthy guard dogs, Not for show
or breeding stock, at two days old they are taken to vet to have due claws removed, and
weight take and general health exam, then they go back for shots, and worming if they need
it, then booster shots and weight again, and general health exam. They will leave the farm
to new owners with puppy books with all recorded info from my vet with their contact info
on book. Just so you know the pictures that Ellie May put on here of her 2 pyrenees puppies
CAME FROM MY FARM, BORN AND RAISED. See how they are not frieghtened of the chickens,
well I exposed them to chickens and sheep when they were babies. Now she has a good start
on raising her new puppies with her sheep and chickens. Sorry you have Some real mean goats
I believe I would on my farm after a FAIR TIME of interation CULL those goats that try to kill the
dogs. My sheep know that the dogs are alfa, and the dogs know I am alfa to them.


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## Southern by choice (Dec 13, 2012)

Just 3 more days Blue Moon!   :bun :bun :bun


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## BlueMoonFarms (Dec 13, 2012)

Dang! How on earth did I miss this disagreement? 
Wow, my e-mail didnt want me to read it i guess lol, but anyway differences of opinion is always to be expected 

Only 3 days left and I get to go see the babys! They have been born and raised in the barn, with the herd I assume. The pups are massive little fuzz balls!! I cant wait to see them.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Dec 15, 2012)

I will be back with pictures tomorrow!!  Everyone wish me luck!!


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Dec 15, 2012)

Can't wait to see pictures.....


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## Southern by choice (Dec 15, 2012)

So excited, are you going to look for a watcher or more of a patroller?
See if they will put the pups out in the field with the livestock so you can watch what each one does, 20-30 minutes you'll observe a lot.
I hate it when people try to sell a LGD pup from a pen. 
Make sure you ask about each pup.... it is a good sign if they can tell you what the strengths of each pup are. 
Hopefully they are 8-10 weeks, if they are younger than 6 weeks, you really can't tell with LGD's . I like the "watchers"!


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## BlueMoonFarms (Dec 16, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> So excited, are you going to look for a watcher or more of a patroller?
> See if they will put the pups out in the field with the livestock so you can watch what each one does, 20-30 minutes you'll observe a lot.
> I hate it when people try to sell a LGD pup from a pen.
> Make sure you ask about each pup.... it is a good sign if they can tell you what the strengths of each pup are.
> Hopefully they are 8-10 weeks, if they are younger than 6 weeks, you really can't tell with LGD's . I like the "watchers"!


A patroller most likely, a dog who will keep the borders checked and keep those evil coyotes away. And I believe they are 10-11 weeks now? We will be able to see them at work, it will be great!


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## Southern by choice (Dec 16, 2012)

waiting..


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## BlueMoonFarms (Dec 16, 2012)

I am sorry in advance...
I forgot my camera  
I also got the puppys ages wrong  there 4 weeks old today lol and so not much personality. But if I go back every two weeks, I can see them grow and how they will act with the goats.
They are raised in the barn with the goats, and soon they will be out wandering the fields with them.
The breeder said they would be getting me pictures for you guys, she has home for four pups, including me, and still needs to find homes for the others, so of course they want me to show them off 
Once they send them to me, I will get them up!


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 16, 2012)

We can be patient.  Bet they were adorable though.


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## Alice Acres (Dec 16, 2012)

No camera!


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## CocoNUT (Dec 17, 2012)

Oh I can't wait to see fluffy-cuteness!!!!


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## BlueMoonFarms (Dec 17, 2012)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> We can be patient.  Bet they were adorable though.


Oh they were so cute! And it was great to see the parents out working with the goats, they were big thick, friendly fuzzy monsters who must have found a deer lol, because they brought it back for there mom to see.
The puppys were so fluffy and pudgy, omg I loved it. I cant wait to see there personality's unfold so I can see how they work with the goats. 
http://www.rosasharnfarm.com/ This is her site where you can see the pictures of some of her dogs


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## Southern by choice (Dec 24, 2012)

MERRY CHRISTMAS BLUE MOON!


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## BlueMoonFarms (Dec 25, 2012)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> MERRY CHRISTMAS BLUE MOON!








Merry Christmas!!!


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## whr (Jan 1, 2013)

wow guineas, silkies and laying hens.   Nice pups also.


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## BlueMoonFarms (Jan 2, 2013)

Puppies!!!
The one with half of a grey face is the one I hope will turn out to be the pup we bring home. Depending on her personality, verses the others for our particular situation, we may or may not be bringing her back with us. Boy do i hope it works out though, I got that ment to be feeling when I saw her 
We will be getting a second one later down the road, not to far down, more like next year. At the moment though we have a barn we need to pay for and put up lol
I hope you guys enjoy the puppy pictures!!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 2, 2013)

Oh my they are adorable!!


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## EllieMay (Jan 2, 2013)

Soooo cute!!!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 2, 2013)

Ohhhh, too darling. Because I know you S. - and you are a dog person  ... The badger girl looks good. badgered markings will bring in good pigment to a line. Notice the other pups...pink feet pads, lacking some pigment, one of them has pink nose too. Some of that will change as they grow older but the badger is real good for pigment...just in case you ever decide to switch gears and breed awesome LGD's! 

Of course pigment does not effect workability... but...some of us want working with good confirmation as well! 

You know us picture hogs on here are gonna be buggin you!


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