# Doeling that just WON'T take to the bottle....



## parttimefarmer (Apr 9, 2013)

Hi y'all!  I was SUPER lucky this year - 2 Nubian does each had 3 doelings, for a total of 6 little girls!  WOW!!

Now they're all over 2 weeks old and I am still working on bottle training (left them with moms for almost 2 weeks because of my work schedule).  5 out of 6 are knocking each other down for the bottles, but I have one little girl that will not, I mean WILL NOT eat from the bottle.  She's hungry, and when I put her on mama while mama is on the milk stand she tries to eat like she's never eaten before.  But even if I let her go for 12 hours (since she WON'T eat any more frequently than that), all I can get her to suck is an ounce or two and then she flails and screams bloody murder!  Persistence isn't the problem - I spend more than an hour with her each time, trying to get her to eat, letting her go for a few minutes, trying again, holding the bottle in her mouth, etc.

It's not an emergency per se, 'cause I can always put her back on mama for short nursings, but I'd really rather not, since these are my future dairy superstars, and I prefer the tame-ness they get when bottle fed.

Any suggestions?  It's not the taste, and seemingly not the technique, as she will eat an ounce or two greedily at first, then refuses and won't eat for another 12 hours or so (unless, of course, she gets to see mama).

Thanks!


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## sprocket (Apr 9, 2013)

How long've you been trying to train her for?  (About a week or so?)

Personally I'd avoid putting her back on mom - she'll start to learn that if she puts up a fuss, she'll get what she wants.  In my past experience (and we've got ~ 65 does), if they're being stubborn and not drinking enough, then they're not hungry enough.  If one of my kids is being picky about being bottle fed, then they'll have to wait till the next bottle feeding.

On rare occasion, I'll have some that will reject the bottle entirely and go straight to solid feed - hay and grain.  This isn't the worst thing in the world - if you have plenty of hay available for her and get her started on a bit grain, she should be fine.  Usually though, hunger will take over and they'll be strong feeders within a week or so of the "tough love" treatment.


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## parttimefarmer (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks sprocket!

She's been "on" the bottle for about a week.  We had some really cold temperatures here early on in the training (last week, and now it's 80+ outside.  WHAT??) so I gave in and let her get some milk from mama, as she is small, and I didn't want her to starve/freeze to death.

I'm inclined to believe what you said about making her wait, I just don't want to kill her in the mean time.  She stands a bit hunched, and will nibble hay and a little grain (there are 6 babies in a big horse stall with a small bucket with a couple handfuls of grain in it, and a hay feeder with a flake of hay as well), but she's clearly interested in nursing.  Just not from the bottle!

Will hold out until she starts to look poorly, then I think I will have to find another solution.  Thanks for the reply


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## sprocket (Apr 9, 2013)

Sudden swings in temperature or the weather around my neck of the woods can wind up bringing on pneumonia...and a hunched back kid always makes me nervous.  Is she breathing alright?

I really, really doubt that with lots of food available, she'll starve herself to death.   But yes, I agree - keep a close eye on her just in case.


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## Southern by choice (Apr 9, 2013)

Not unusual for a kid that was on momma NOT go over to a bottle. There are some that will absolutely refuse... die rather than eat. I think at this point let her nurse off momma while momma is in the stand if momma is not allowing her to nurse. She needs food in her way more than 12 hours apart, I would be concerned that she is not getting enough nutrition and is going to be more susceptible to any kind of illness. She will get weaker and weaker.

If you are going to bottle feed it should start from the beginning.  I think it is RollsFarm that has great info on bottle feeding...see if you can find her info.


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## treeclimber233 (Apr 9, 2013)

All of my babies have been raised by their mom and they are all very friendly.  If the mothers are not scared of you the babies will not learn to be scared of you.  If your baby continues to refuse the bottle just leave her with her mom.


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## sprocket (Apr 9, 2013)

Southern by choice and I are going to disagree on this one - I've never had a kid die by choosing starvation.  Before we started our CAE prevention program, I'd leave the kids on their moms for several days to a week before pulling them and putting them on the bottle/bucket feeder.  We had very, very few issues with this.  Keep an eye on the little one and do what you feel is right.


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## 20kidsonhill (Apr 10, 2013)

I had lost one to starvation that I never could get on a bottle,  SHe was a triplet and her bigger two brothers weren't letting her get enough. I would try to get her to take a bottle and she wouldn't, she would go down and then I would get her to recover because she was too weak to fight a bottle, then when she got her senses back she would realize she was drinking on a bottle and clamp her mouth closed.  Three times she did this and by 4 weeks of age we lost her.  
I think you are going to need to go for broke and take her from the doe for 2 or 3 days and just offer her a bottle every 6 hours or so,  If she drinks 1 ounce and lets up, don't keep trying.  Just call it good enough and then try again in 5 or 6 hours. My husband insists if they just suck a little then don't keep forcing it call that a win and stop when they let up. It does seem to work and I have used that technique a couple times  here recently and it has helped me get a couple dam raised kids on a bottle. They can get really stubborn if you keep insisting. 
Clearly you know something about it, or you wouldn't have the other 5 on a bottle at this point.  But I personally feel you have all the milk you need from the udder and there is a point you may wish to give up trying the bottle and just put her on momor to the udder 3 times a day.  The hunched up is clearly lack of food and protein.
Now we dam raise and I don't pull them very often.  When we pull one it is due to a problem with the doe, man can they get stubborn even at a week or so of age. Personally, if I had dairy goats I would either commit to pulling the kids at 2 or 3 days of age or even right away or just pen them from mom and let them nurse 3 or 4 times a day until weaning.  I couldn't imagine the work it would take getting several 2 week old dam raised kids on a bottle. 

Good luck with her. I know how frustrating it is.


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## Pioneer Chicken (Apr 10, 2013)

sprocket said:
			
		

> How long've you been trying to train her for?  (About a week or so?)
> 
> Personally I'd avoid putting her back on mom - she'll start to learn that if she puts up a fuss, she'll get what she wants.  In my past experience (and we've got ~ 65 does), if they're being stubborn and not drinking enough, then they're not hungry enough.  If one of my kids is being picky about being bottle fed, then they'll have to wait till the next bottle feeding.


I agree with sprocket.  This is my first year with bottle babies and was it a struggle! We ended taking up four kids off their mamas.  Since we wanted them to still learn goat behaviour and know their moms, we would let them have mama time either overnight or for a few hours each day.  This made a lot more trouble for us because the kids preferred mamas' milk instead of the bottles and would -stubbornly- refuse the bottle till they had mama time.  We finally took the kids completely off their mothers and that really helped with two of the kids.  I had to wrestle (so to speak) the milk into one of the kids.  She'd only take maybe 1/2 an oz to 1 oz per feeding (we did four-five times a day when we started) and finally after a hard week and a half or two of working with her, she got the hang of sucking and willingly took the bottle.  She's just as greedy for the bottles as the other kids and I haven't had a problem since.  

 Is it cold in your area?  For some reason, we have had trouble with kids getting cold this year and they'd get that hunchy look. To fix this, we'd wrap them in a towel and set them on a heating pad.  They're really smart about not eating when cold; I actually had another kid absolutely refuse to eat because he was so cold (he was very hunchy).  So, after a sleep under a nice warm electric blanket, the next morning he was back to his usual self and sucked down the bottle like nothing had ever happened! 

I encourage you to hang in there. It really is hard work getting a stubborn kid to eat.   I thought that one little doeling would never take the bottle, but she did. Just go day by day, feeding by feeding.  Keep trying and be patient. She will get hungry enough to eat and once she's started, well, she's started!  You can do it!  Please keep us updated on how it goes.  Blessings! ~Lauren


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## sprocket (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm wondering too what sort of teat you have on the bottle?  I prefer the ones from Caprine Supply that look like this:

http://www.caprinesupply.com/produc...caprine-style/caprine-nipples-20-or-more.html

I'll usually enlarge the hole a bit for bottle feeding - some of the new kids don't have the suction to slurp out of a small hole.  Once they've been trained to the bottle, I'll get them used to feeding on the bucket feeder.  The only problem with these teats is that they don't let air into the bottle when feeding so you'll need to relieve the vacuum that builds up from time to time.

When I'm trying to feed a difficult kid, I'll usually cup the back of the head with one hand, while inserting the teat into the mouth, making sure it doesn't slip out from either side of the mouth with my thumb and a finger.  They might not enjoy it to start - and will yell loudly to let you know - but done often and long enough (sometimes I'll sit there for 5-10 minutes like this), a suckling reflex will kick in eventually.  Sometimes squeezing a bit of milk out helps (ensuring that you don't choke them) and I've found that stroking the throat can help too.   (And this might all seem terribly obvious, and you might be rolling your eyes at me, but I just wanted to explain the technique that works for me.)


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## michickenwrangler (Apr 16, 2013)

I'm having issues with this right now. I have a doe who is losing weight nursing her twins, so I pulled the kids off and planned to bottle feed them. They are getting milk from the milkings, good ol' goat milk.

It's been 2 days and they still haven't had more than a total of 2 ounces each. I can see their stomachs shrinking and they look "tucked up". I'm using those red/yelow caprine nipples with the tip ends cut off. I tilt up their heads and they get a bit, but then they turn away. Again, it's been 2 days so I'm worried.


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## Pioneer Chicken (Apr 22, 2013)

How are your kids doing *parttimefarmer* and *michickenwrangler*?


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