# An Introduction to Buffaloes



## River Buffaloes

Buffaloes are one of the most significant livestock species in the world. More people rely on them for their livelihood than any other form of livestock. To my surprise information on buffaloes on BYH was nonexistent on this platform. So on the good counsel of @Baymule and @Bruce  I decided to start a new thread where we can talk about this extremely important animal.


----------



## Baymule

I'm so glad that you are starting this thread. That is a very fine looking animal in the picture, it it yours? I have always called them water buffaloes and seen them called that in print, articles and such. I'm looking forward to learning more.

Where are you located and could you please put your general location in your avatar? It is always interesting to know where people are.


----------



## River Buffaloes

*Evolution of Water Buffaloes*

Water buffaloes (bubalus bubalis) are true buffaloes that were domesticated twice from now endangered Asian wild buffaloes (bubalus arnee). They are the largest members of the tribe bovini which contains animals like cattle, Cape Buffaloes, Gaur, Bison, antelopes, goats, sheep etc.

Water buffaloes were first domesticated in South Asia as a triple purpose animals around five thousand years ago. This line is now what is called either River Buffaloes or Riverine Buffaloes. Unlike taurine cattle they have evolved
to thrive on rough quality pasture, muggy tropical wet conditions. They can also thrive in dry tropical conditions as long as they have access to water to rest in. They are also much more conducive to stall feeding than cattles. They are also very adaptable and can live in diverse climates.

*Buffalo Milk*

Buffalo milk is very flavorful and nutritious. It contains two to three times more fat than most cow breeds ( 7.2-12.5% ), 60% more calcium than cows milk and significantly less lactose and cholesterol than cows milk. This milk is ideal for making many kinds of milk products like yoghurt, ghee, butter, cheese, gelato etc. They play a major role in the dairy industries of countries like India and Pakistan.

*Buffalo* *Meat*

Buffaloes grow faster than cows and in same amount of feed they can obtain more mass than cattle.  Buffalo meat, called carabeef, is low in cholesterol than beef, but it's not well marbled like beef.

*Buffaloes as beasts of burden*

Males of most buffalo breeds are suitable for heavy work, but they are slower than oxen and they tend to heat up more quickly because they have 90% less sweat glands than cattle. On road they are usually worked from evening to morning or under cloudy conditions. They are more suitable than oxen for tilling rice fields as they have strong and thick feet and they don't ever get stuck in the mud.

*Buffalo Physic*

River buffaloes are bulky animals, with plain breeds like Jafarabadi being bulkier than those found in mountainous regions like Azi Kheli. They are the largest members of the tribe bovini.

*Color*

Generally  they tend to be black in color with a white tail end. White patches on forehead, white socks and white spots in extremities are not uncommon (I have one like that, her last year calf is in my Avatar). In some individuals black coloration is replaced by a Golden/blonde color. In some breeds like Nili Ravi the white patches are desired in some like Murrah it is a disqualification. Golden/Blond color is also more common in some breeds like Azi Kheli and less common or desired in others. Brown bovine eyes are most common in buffaloes, but is some breeds like Nili Ravi walled eyes are desired and brown eyes are a disqualification, in Murrah it's just the opposite. Greyish pink coloration is rare, but is common is some breeds like Surati.

*Horns*

Horns differ widely from breed to breed from small curved ring like horns of Murrah to long sword like horns of Pandharpuri, to half curved sickle shaped horns of Surati.

*Temperament*

Buffaloes were domesticated to live in close proximity to humans and they tend to be very calm and docile animals and are gentle with their owners. They bond very easily and deeply with their owners as well as other farm animals, but can turn feral and return to wild if human contact is minimal. Unlike cattle they graze in a tightly packed formation with constantly talking to each other. They are very good for mob grazing practice.

Buffaloes have a complex pecking order with a strong social hierarchy. Fights among individuals from different herds are common. If both individuals have dominant personality it may last for hours, but if one is timid and backs off it may end before starting. They are full of personality, every individual is a little different. They are curious and inquisitive. They are intelligent, a bit on the mischievous side, but also very sensitive, and have a very good line in 'no'. If mistreated or unhappy or unfed they usually refuse to co-operate instead of attacking for example 'I will not let the calf nurse', 'I will not let the milk down', 'I will just lay down'. They can be stubborn, but always happy to see their owners.


*Spread*

River Buffaloes were domesticated in South Asia, that is India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, they are also kept in Sri Lanka, Nepal, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Egypt, Greece, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy, Venezuela, Columbia, Brazil and Caribbean.

River Buffaloes were introduced to the Middle East through trade between Indus Valley Civilization and Mesopotamia (Sumerians). There are many theories about how they came to Europe. One theory is that they were taken to Greece by Alexander's soldiers who were returning after campaigning in Iran, India or Egypt. Second theory is that they were introduced to Italy by Romans from Egypt. Third theory is that they brought to Italy by Crusaders who were returning from Middle East.

Surati buffaloes


Pic by central cattle breeding farm Dhamrod

Murrah 





Nili Ravi (notice the white markings and walled eyes)





Jafarabadi 





Azi Kheli



Pandharpuri


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I'm so glad that you are starting this thread. That is a very fine looking animal in the picture, it it yours? I have always called them water buffaloes and seen them called that in print, articles and such. I'm looking forward to learning more.
> 
> Where are you located and could you please put your general location in your avatar? It is always interesting to know where people are.



Can you please proof read this for me? English is not my first language. I also faced a lot of problems while typing and I was unable to load photographs.


----------



## Bruce

Your English is excellent, you could teach it!

The horns on the Pandharpuri are truely impressive!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Your English is excellent, you could teach it!
> 
> The horns on the Pandharpuri are truely impressive!




Thank you.

Horns are very important part in the evaluation of the native breeds. A broken horn or wrong horns may cut the price in half. If we disbud the horns of an animal it will not be registered in the breed directory. A good deal of attention is placed on horns by breeders. Only foreign breeds like Jersey and Holstein-Frisians are frequently dehorned. Infact as a child when I first saw a hornless cow I was puzzled and thought "what an ugly cow!!!"

Jhalwari goat




Gaddi goat 



Pashmina goat




Kankarej cows


----------



## Baymule

Indeed, as @Bruce said, your English is excellent. I want to thank you for teaching us about buffaloes and the different breeds. This is wonderful. 

The goat pictures you posted are equally impressive. I love learning about livestock in different countries. 

Here in the southern part of the USA is a breed of cattle called Brahma. Cattle were imported from India to make the breed because of their abilities to live and thrive in hot climates. I don’t know what breeds were used to make the Brahma breed, I’ll have to research that.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> Infact as a child when I first saw a hornless cow I was puzzled and thought "what an ugly cow!!!"



Of course I think the same thing about Lamancha goats. Goats should have ears!!!!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Indeed, as @Bruce said, your English is excellent. I want to thank you for teaching us about buffaloes and the different breeds. This is wonderful.
> 
> The goat pictures you posted are equally impressive. I love learning about livestock in different countries.
> 
> Here in the southern part of the USA is a breed of cattle called Brahma. Cattle were imported from India to make the breed because of their abilities to live and thrive in hot climates. I don’t know what breeds were used to make the Brahma breed, I’ll have to research that.



Thank you, that post covered only River Buffaloes. I still have to write about the Swamp Buffaloes. I am not feeling well, I think I got infected from Covid19 Virus. I am coughing, my body is aching and my nose is choked. If I get well by afternoon I will write, if not I will cheat and copy paste from "the coffee thread". 

Yes, Brahmas are beautiful animals, like buffaloes they are also robust animals like buffaloes with resistance to parasites like tick, but as I said, our experience with cows is not good. Indigenous cattle breeds are a different topic altogether.

 I want to focus on buffaloes as I see that buffaloes are being neglected. They are a superior livestock species that still have to reach its full potential.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Of course I think the same thing about Lamancha goats. Goats should have ears!!!!




Yes, I saw them too. Their ears are non existent, I always thought "why did they breed out it's ears?"


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> I am not feeling well, I think I got infected from Covid19 Virus


That is not good! Can you get tested?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> That is not good! Can you get tested?



I can, but tests are very unreliable and even if I get a correct positive result, I will be told to go to my room and rest.


----------



## Baymule

I hope you do not suffer from the Covid. It is hard to get over. We have had quite a few of our friends get Covid and they were so sick. I pray that you have a light case and get over it soon.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I hope you do not suffer from the Covid. It is hard to get over. We have had quite a few of our friends get Covid and they were so sick. I pray that you have a light case and get over it soon.




Thanks, I hope too


----------



## Beekissed

I love this thread!!!! I hope you continue to post on it and tell us about your buffaloes, as it's something I know zilch about.  I love an easy keeper animal that is dual purpose and these various breeds are such a rich part of the history of this world that we Americans never learn much about.   

Please tell us more and I LOVE the pics!


----------



## Beekissed

River Buffaloes said:


> I can, but tests are very unreliable and even if I get a correct positive result, I will be told to go to my room and rest.



That's about all you can do anyway....rest, hydrate, and rest some more.  I think my  household had it back in January and it took about a month to get fully over it, but much like any cold virus, it's survivable and there's an end in sight.   If you can get your hands on some steroids it can quickly relieve the swelling of the respiratory passages and get you some great relief.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Beekissed said:


> That's about all you can do anyway....rest, hydrate, and rest some more.  I think my  household had it back in January and it took about a month to get fully over it, but much like any cold virus, it's survivable and there's an end in sight.   If you can get your hands on some steroids it can quickly relieve the swelling of the respiratory passages and get you some great relief.




You caught it quite early. The Persistent coughing is very annoying. I have some ginger brandy, it helps with the cough. Just a snifter before bed.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Beekissed said:


> I love this thread!!!! I hope you continue to post on it and tell us about your buffaloes, as it's something I know zilch about.  I love an easy keeper animal that is dual purpose and these various breeds are such a rich part of the history of this world that we Americans never learn much about.
> 
> Please tell us more and I LOVE the pics!




I am glad that you liked. There are actually quite a few people who keep buffaloes in the Americas. In Anglo America there are or were quite a few buffalo farms and companies and individuals who keep buffaloes. I know for sure that they were in British Columbia, Ontario, New Jersey, North Carolina, California and Florida. I think they are also kept in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Vermont and Texas, but I cannot be 100% certain.

Look up Ontario Water Buffalo company and backyard buffaloes on Facebook.


----------



## Beekissed

River Buffaloes said:


> I am glad that you liked. Their are actually quite a few people who keep buffaloes in the Americas. In Anglo America there are or were quite a few buffalo farms and companies and individuals who keep buffaloes. I know for sure that they were in British Columbia, Ontario, New Jersey, North Carolina, California and Florida. I think they are also kept in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Vermont and Texas, but I cannot be 100% certain.
> 
> Look up Ontario Water Buffalo company and backyard buffaloes on Facebook.


Oh, I know there are people who keep them in the US, but not enough that they've become anywhere near mainstream livestock.  The cost of obtaining them is prohibitive to most who would keep them full time as part of their agricultural practices and they are not well known enough to be marketable to the public as meat, so even if you could afford to get them, you'd have to sell them so high that no one could afford to eat them and the number of people who would buy them would be a small market.   Mostly wealthy people keeping them as a novelty.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Beekissed said:


> Oh, I know there are people who keep them in the US, but not enough that they've become anywhere near mainstream livestock.  The cost of obtaining them is prohibitive to most who would keep them full time as part of their agricultural practices and they are not well known enough to be marketable to the public as meat, so even if you could afford to get them, you'd have to sell them so high that no one could afford to eat them and the number of people who would buy them would be a small market.   Mostly wealthy people keeping them as a novelty.



In India buffalo's contribution in milk and meat production is more than any other livestock. Here too they cost more than cows. They will sell atleast double in price of cows. You will hardly find buffaloes roaming in the streets on documentaries about India.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> *Buffaloes as beasts of burden*
> 
> Males of most buffalo breeds are suitable for heavy work, but they are slower than oxen and they tend to heat up more quickly because they have 90% less sweat glands than cattle. On road they are usually worked from evening to morning or under cloudy conditions. They are more suitable than oxens for tilling rice fields as they have strong and thick feet and they don't never get stuck in the mud.


The only issues I saw with the English are in the quoted part. Ox is 1, Oxen is 2 or more. Also it should be "they don't ever get stuck in the mud" not never. 

It looks really good and there is NO way I could write something that well in a language that is not my native one.

Hope you feel better soon!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> The only issues I saw with the English are in the quoted part. Ox is 1, Oxen is 2 or more. Also it should be "they don't ever get stuck in the mud" not never.
> 
> It looks really good and there is NO way I could write something that well in a language that is not my native one.
> 
> Hope you feel better soon!




Thanks a ton. The never part was clearly a typo. 

To my surprise I am feeling wonderful this morning. It is as if I never got sick. It is 5:55 AM


----------



## River Buffaloes

Buffaloes were again domesticated around four thousand years ago in East Asia as a dual purpose livestock with emphasis on working abilities of the animal. They developed into what we call swamp buffaloes. They are more stocky and comparatively smaller than river buffaloes. Their horns are stronger, thicker and longer than that of River Buffaloes and they together from the shape of a bow or Cresent. They are more commonly found in gray, brown, golden and slate colors. They have a distinct white marking under their neck. Albinism is more common in swamp buffaloes. They resemble their wild ancestors more than the river buffaloes. They are genetically distinct from River Buffaloes. Swamp Buffaloes have 48 chromosomes whereas River Buffaloes have 50 chromosomes. Swamp Buffaloes are common in countries like China, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia and Philippines.

A swamp buffalo


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> They are more stocky and comparatively smaller than river buffaloes.


Keyword there being "comparatively", still looks like a BIG animal!


----------



## Baymule

[QUOTE="River Buffaloes, post: 660452, member: 20114"

To my surprise I am feeling wonderful this morning. It is as if I never got sick. It is 5:55 AM
[/QUOTE]

That is great news!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Keyword there being "comparatively", still looks like a BIG animal!




Yes, I told you that Water Buffaloes are the largest members of the tribe bovini, so even the smaller among them is a bit on the larger side.


----------



## Baymule

Do they give much milk?


----------



## River Buffaloes

One health issue that buffaloes are vulnerable to is uterine prolapse. Now prolapse generally occurs during the 3rd stage of parturition or immediately after it in buffaloes, but in rare cases it may be seen 24 h to 48 h after parturition. 

Poor myometrial contractions during the post-partum period and traction during difficult births are two postulated etiologies and low serum calcium (hypocalemia) appear to be a significant risk factor for uterine prolapse in buffaloes. 

Hypocalemia is said to be the main cause of 'milk fever' in cattle, the same is considered a risk factor in Water Buffaloes. The theory is that thick heavy and strong bones of Buffalo calves and higher calcium concentration in buffalo milk is the main reason behind the hypocalemia in Buffaloes, because it occurs more in mature buffaloes than in heifers. Hypocalemia happens when an animal's metabolism is not able to extract enough calcium from its bones, but continues to provide calcium to the fetus or calf through her milk and resultantly the calcium level in her blood drops.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Do they give much milk?



No, buffaloes give little milk when compared to cattle. Most landrace breeds will give 8-12 liters of milk. Good breeds most notably Murrah, Nili Ravi, Jafarabadi, Kundi may give upto 4 gallons of milk. I guess that the record is 28 liters in India and 32 liters in Pakistan. 

To put it bluntly buffaloes are not milk giving machines like cows. Infact if they don't want, they will outright refuse to get milked, they will refuse to let the calf nurse. Their other side is that you can take all your time to milk, even if it takes you half an hour she will not budge. 

Once I was milking one of my buffaloes and a little boy was playing nearby and he was attempting to climb a chair and he just fell off with the chair. I left the bucket under the buffalo and calmed him down and after fifteen minutes or so I remembered that I still have to complete the milking so I went back and found that she was still standing, waiting for me with the bucket placed under her. 


I think there are three reasons behind low milk production in Buffaloes when compared to cattle.

First of all first buffaloes were domesticated some three thousand years after the first cattle, so they have not been selected long enough. Goats were the first dairy animal to be domesticated and they give more milk by body weight than most cow breeds.

Secondly buffalo milk richer than cow's milk. It contains more fat, more calcium and more protein. So instead of giving more milk, they produce more creamy milk (that's my theory). 

Third reason I think is that they were never selected for intensive production. They are kept as a backyard livestock. They were not selected for dairy industry. They cannot be used in dairy industry, you cannot steal a buffalo's calf and expect her to line up to get milked, not going to happen.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Here are two of my buffaloes who are going to calve in a few months. They are in my courtyard for some goodies. These two are not very welcoming buffaloes, so we keep them inside, when they are home. Their love is reserved only for the family.

These pics are a few months old. 

This is our heifer, she will be three in November. I hope she fatten up fast.





This our beloved Kabootar, she was small when we got her. She had a very unhappy childhood. She got burnt in a terrible fire, she broke tip of her horns after fighting with someone else's buffalo and then her tail got gangrene when she was just bred for the first time. She is due sometime in middle to late October. She is not going to be sold, she is a pet.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> So instead of giving more milk, they produce more creamy milk (that's my theory).


Ice cream!!  Maybe low production is a good thing for a family's buffalo. After all who can use 8 or 9 gallons each day? 

How far is it to your farm and how often do you get back to visit? I assume there are others there taking care of things in your absence.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Ice cream!!  Maybe low production is a good thing for a family's buffalo. After all who can use 8 or 9 gallons each day?
> 
> How far is it to your farm and how often do you get back to visit? I assume there are others there taking care of things in your absence.




I am in Delhi, my village is in Bihar. It's roughly a thousand kilometres away. It takes 14 hrs for the fastest train in the route to reach the State capital. 

I am able to visit only on longer holidays. I was there during the lockdown.


----------



## River Buffaloes

My family lives their. My parents, my grandmother, my great grandmother, my sister.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Ice cream!!  Maybe low production is a good thing for a family's buffalo. After all who can use 8 or 9 gallons each day?
> 
> How far is it to your farm and how often do you get back to visit? I assume there are others there taking care of things in your absence.



We have milk co-operatives, managed and run by farmers themselves. You can take your extra fresh milk to your nearest collection centre and sell it. That milk is then tested and you are paid according to the quality of the milk. That milk is Pasteurized and then packed and sold on the same day or in the morning next day. Morning milk is on the counter in the evening and evening milk is on the counter by next morning. Aanand Milk Union Limited (AMUL) is one such milk union.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> My family lives their. My parents, my grandmother, my great grandmother, my sister.


So plenty of people to take care of the buffaloes 

That is a great distance, not a weekend visit distance. Of course with this stupid virus, there is no such thing as weekend visits anyway. The state where I live has the lowest rate of Covid in the country and to keep it that way anyone coming from or visiting an area with higher rates of infection are required to isolate for a full 2 weeks before going out in public (not that everyone does ).

Since you have asked for English corrections ... their vs there is a VERY common error made by many native English speakers. 

Their is like ownership - "it is their dog".
There is location "the dog is over there". 
Except when There isn't location  Like "There are 2 dogs running in the park"

I've often said that English is a TERRIBLE language. It is made from words from many other languages, horribly confusing and with "rules" that are to be followed ... except when they are not. 

There are probably 8 or 10 meanings of the word "well" and it is always pronounced the same way. Then there are things like "Live" (soft i) and "Live" (hard I like eye). Both refer to existence but aren't the same: "Where do you live? (soft i)" and "Is it live? (hard I)" Live in the second case being the same as alive. The E after the V should make the i a hard I, except when it doesn't. I don't know if there is an exception to that rule like the "I before E except after C unless it sounds like (hard) A as in neighbor and weigh." There are dozens of other "unless" cases to that rule.


----------



## River Buffaloes

It is important to note that water buffaloes are completely different from African Cape Buffaloes (Syncerus Caffer) and American Bison (Bison Bison), they are not only different species, but they are from different Genus. Water Buffaloes are calm, docile and domesticated animals unlike Cape Buffaloes and Bison.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> So plenty of people to take care of the buffaloes
> 
> That is a great distance, not a weekend visit distance. Of course with this stupid virus, there is no such thing as weekend visits anyway. The state where I live has the lowest rate of Covid in the country and to keep it that way anyone coming from or visiting an area with higher rates of infection are required to isolate for a full 2 weeks before going out in public (not that everyone does ).
> 
> Since you have asked for English corrections ... their vs there is a VERY common error made by many native English speakers.
> 
> Their is like ownership - "it is their dog".
> There is location "the dog is over there".
> Except when There isn't location  Like "There are 2 dogs running in the park"
> 
> I've often said that English is a TERRIBLE language. It is made from words from many other languages, horribly confusing and with "rules" that are to be followed ... except when they are not.
> 
> There are probably 8 or 10 meanings of the word "well" and it is always pronounced the same way. Then there are things like "Live" (soft i) and "Live" (hard I like eye). Both refer to existence but aren't the same: "Where do you live? (soft i)" and "Is it live? (hard I)" Live in the second case being the same as alive. The E after the V should make the i a hard I, except when it doesn't. I don't know if there is an exception to that rule like the "I before E except after C unless it sounds like (hard) A as in neighbor and weigh." There are dozens of other "unless" cases to that rule.



Then you get in different parts of the country where words are taken from previous cultures. Texas was once part of Spain, from 1690 to 1821 when many Texicans fought in the Mexican-Spanish war for the freedom of Mexico from Spain. Then later, Texas fought Mexico for freedom and Texas became our own country from 1836 to 1845. Texas uses a lot of Spanish words in our language. 

Louisiana was once a French territory, twice actually. Spain held the Louisiana territory from 1763 to 1802 before returning it to France. In 1803, The United States purchased 828,000 square miles that ran from from the Gulf of Mexico to Canada, for 15 million dollars. In Louisiana, are the Cajun people, descendants of Acadians who migrated to Louisiana from Canada. 

*Cajuns* are the French colonists who settled the Canadian maritime provinces (Nova Scotia and New Brunswick) in the 1600s. The settlers named their region "Acadia," and were known as *Acadians*. In 1713, the British took over Canada and expected all settlers, including the *Acadians*, to defend the kingdom. When the Acadians refused to serve the British crown, they were expelled. They found their way to Louisiana where their descendants live today. 

So in some parts of Louisiana, a dialect is spoken, a mixture of French and who knows what. LOL 

So all this history is to illustrate that as @Bruce said, English or at least _American_ English is a conglomeration of many different languages from all over the world, including words from Native Americans.

India was a British colony from 1858 until their independence in 1947. Britain left their language behind, so here again, India, as America, has been heavily influenced by language. 

Ok, back to Buffaloes! LOL


----------



## River Buffaloes

Buffaloes are animals who are never in hurry, they are calm and patient. So they won't mind if we get little distracted. 

By the way do any of you folks enjoy listening to these Greek Byzantine Eastern Orthodox hymns? 

They are deep and very comforting. Turn on the subtitles.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Water buffaloes love to roll in mudholes and bath in ponds, rivers and canals. Instead of using treats, you can also use water hose.  This habit makes buffaloes less susceptible to ticks and lice than cattle. The mud on their body dry up as they graze in the sun and it chokes all the ticks and lice and it also protects them from sun and fly bites. As the water evaporate from the mud it cools their body temperature allowing them to graze in the sun. Now we don't create mudholes for them, they make it themselves, they just need water and soil. In the evening before we herd them back home we take to the pond for a wash. 

Baby water buffaloes are a different story, they are hairy like a bear and very cuddly. We take care of them like cattle calves, just with some extra love.


----------



## Baymule

You herd them, do they follow or do you walk behind them, guiding them where you want them to go? My sheep follow me and run when I call. They are very food motivated, shake a coffee can of feed and they will follow me anywhere.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> You herd them, do they follow or do you walk behind them, guiding them where you want them to go? My sheep follow me and run when I call. They are very food motivated, shake a coffee can of feed and they will follow me anywhere.



We keep the calves at home so the lactating buffaloes lead and the rest follow and I stay behind them to keep the new buffaloes or the yearlings in line. We sometimes take them 2-3 miles away from home.


----------



## Ridgetop

River Buffaloes said:


> Yes, I saw them too. Their ears are non existent, I always thought "why did they breed out it's ears?"



They have ears, just very small ones.  There are 2 types of allowable ears - gopher which look like they are not there, and elf where they have a tiny pointed ear like like in a picture of an elf.  They actually have a complicated series of inner ear hairs to protect them from bug.  The lack of long ears seemed to stem from one particular "sport" that threw that particular type of ear.  The early breeders noticed that in the area where these goats originated that longer eared goats had a problem with bugs attacking the ears.  So the tiny ears with hairs blocking the ear canal from bugs was bred for in order to relieve the problem.  That is the supposed origin of the lack of excess ear cartilage.   

We had both Nubians with long pendulous ears, and LaManchas.  When the La Manchas were feeling particularly quarrelsome it was common to see them grab one of the Nubians by an ear and shake them like a dog!  Then they would walk away with a big smirk on their faces.  At first we thought it was an accident, but it happened so frequently that we realized that they were purposely biting the Nubians on their long ears!

I find this information about the various breeds of water buffaloes extremely interesting.  I thought there was only one breed or variety of them and they they were all black.  I also thought they were bad tempered and dangerous.  Maybe those are the Cape Buffaloes and other varieties that have not bee domesticated.   I have read books about life in India where small children are sent to take the buffaloes out to graze.  The children would stay with the buffaloes during the day and then bring them back in to the villages in the evening.   I read that as long as the children stayed with the buffaloes they were safe from tigers and leopards.  Is this true?   The size of some of those horns would seem to be a good preventative to a large cat.  Do you lose many buffaloes to tigers?  I have heard that there are not as many tigers in India anymore, and it might not be as much of a danger as it used to be.  Some of the books I read about young children taking out the buffaloes were written quite a while ago.  

Hypocalcemia or milk fever is more common in very high yielding cows.  Probably like you say because they put so much into the calf and then try to produce such enormous amounts of milk immediately that they go down.  If you have ever seen a cow down with milk fever she looks like she is going to die.  Then the vet gives her the IV calcium drip and it is like a miracle.  All of a sudden she staggers to her feet and looks fine!  Can you give extra calcium before the buffaloes calve to prevent milk fever?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Ridgetop said:


> They have ears, just very small ones.  There are 2 types of allowable ears - gopher which look like they are not there, and elf where they have a tiny pointed ear like like in a picture of an elf.  They actually have a complicated series of inner ear hairs to protect them from bug.  The lack of long ears seemed to stem from one particular "sport" that threw that particular type of ear.  The early breeders noticed that in the area where these goats originated that longer eared goats had a problem with bugs attacking the ears.  So the tiny ears with hairs blocking the ear canal from bugs was bred for in order to relieve the problem.  That is the supposed origin of the lack of excess ear cartilage.
> 
> We had both Nubians with long pendulous ears, and LaManchas.  When the La Manchas were feeling particularly quarrelsome it was common to see them grab one of the Nubians by an ear and shake them like a dog!  Then they would walk away with a big smirk on their faces.  At first we thought it was an accident, but it happened so frequently that we realized that they were purposely biting the Nubians on their long ears!
> 
> I find this information about the various breeds of water buffaloes extremely interesting.  I thought there was only one breed or variety of them and they they were all black.  I also thought they were bad tempered and dangerous.  Maybe those are the Cape Buffaloes and other varieties that have not bee domesticated.   I have read books about life in India where small children are sent to take the buffaloes out to graze.  The children would stay with the buffaloes during the day and then bring them back in to the villages in the evening.   I read that as long as the children stayed with the buffaloes they were safe from tigers and leopards.  Is this true?   The size of some of those horns would seem to be a good preventative to a large cat.  Do you lose many buffaloes to tigers?  I have heard that there are not as many tigers in India anymore, and it might not be as much of a danger as it used to be.  Some of the books I read about young children taking out the buffaloes were written quite a while ago.
> 
> Hypocalcemia or milk fever is more common in very high yielding cows.  Probably like you say because they put so much into the calf and then try to produce such enormous amounts of milk immediately that they go down.  If you have ever seen a cow down with milk fever she looks like she is going to die.  Then the vet gives her the IV calcium drip and it is like a miracle.  All of a sudden she staggers to her feet and looks fine!  Can you give extra calcium before the buffaloes calve to prevent milk fever?





Ridgetop said:


> They have ears, just very small ones.  There are 2 types of allowable ears - gopher which look like they are not there, and elf where they have a tiny pointed ear like like in a picture of an elf.  They actually have a complicated series of inner ear hairs to protect them from bug.  The lack of long ears seemed to stem from one particular "sport" that threw that particular type of ear.  The early breeders noticed that in the area where these goats originated that longer eared goats had a problem with bugs attacking the ears.  So the tiny ears with hairs blocking the ear canal from bugs was bred for in order to relieve the problem.  That is the supposed origin of the lack of excess ear cartilage.
> 
> We had both Nubians with long pendulous ears, and LaManchas.  When the La Manchas were feeling particularly quarrelsome it was common to see them grab one of the Nubians by an ear and shake them like a dog!  Then they would walk away with a big smirk on their faces.  At first we thought it was an accident, but it happened so frequently that we realized that they were purposely biting the Nubians on their long ears!
> 
> I find this information about the various breeds of water buffaloes extremely interesting.  I thought there was only one breed or variety of them and they they were all black.  I also thought they were bad tempered and dangerous.  Maybe those are the Cape Buffaloes and other varieties that have not bee domesticated.   I have read books about life in India where small children are sent to take the buffaloes out to graze.  The children would stay with the buffaloes during the day and then bring them back in to the villages in the evening.   I read that as long as the children stayed with the buffaloes they were safe from tigers and leopards.  Is this true?   The size of some of those horns would seem to be a good preventative to a large cat.  Do you lose many buffaloes to tigers?  I have heard that there are not as many tigers in India anymore, and it might not be as much of a danger as it used to be.  Some of the books I read about young children taking out the buffaloes were written quite a while ago.
> 
> Hypocalcemia or milk fever is more common in very high yielding cows.  Probably like you say because they put so much into the calf and then try to produce such enormous amounts of milk immediately that they go down.  If you have ever seen a cow down with milk fever she looks like she is going to die.  Then the vet gives her the IV calcium drip and it is like a miracle.  All of a sudden she staggers to her feet and looks fine!  Can you give extra calcium before the buffaloes calve to prevent milk fever?



The Cape Buffaloes are only distantly related to Water Buffaloes. They are not even in the same Genus. They are not a different variety, but a different species altogether. It's like chicken and peacock. Both are in the same family phasianidae, but they are completely different birds, they are not different varieties of the same thing.  Domestic Water Buffaloes were domesticated from, now critically endangered Asian Wild Buffaloes. It's important to emphasize the difference between Water Buffaloes and Cape Buffaloes and False Buffaloes (bison). This name sharing has done much harm to the reputation of the calm and gentle Water Buffaloes. More people rely on Water Buffaloes than any other livestock. They are true backyard livestocks. 

Children taking buffaloes to the pasture and bringing them back in the evening is common sight in much of India. Children can't do hard labour so they are given easier tasks. I have never herd of or seen a buffalo protecting a child from big cats, but I have been protected by them from dogs and other children. It requires forming a deep bond with buffaloes, not every buffalo will do that. 

I have lost only one buffalo to a big cat. It's true that there are not many big cats are left in India. But my village is near a tiger reserve. In the last tiger census there were 40 tigers in that reserve. 

Hypocalcemia rarely ever results in milk fever in buffaloes. It often ends up causing uterine prolapse, which is equally dangerous. It happen when buffaloes are not able to extract enough calcium from their bones.


----------



## Ridgetop

Can you give calcium to them to prevent that?  Uterine prolapse is usually a reason to cull an animal n sheep,  I have replaced two uterine prolapses in sheep myself so far, and have also had a severe rectal prolapse that resulted in eventually putting down the ewe.  I know that vets can replace a uterine prolapse in cattle and then stitch the uterus into place either permanently or temporarily until it reduces and heals,  Do you do that to buffalo cows?  Can they continue to be bred and calve normally?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Ridgetop said:


> Can you give calcium to them to prevent that?  Uterine prolapse is usually a reason to cull an animal n sheep,  I have replaced two uterine prolapses in sheep myself so far, and have also had a severe rectal prolapse that resulted in eventually putting down the ewe.  I know that vets can replace a uterine prolapse in cattle and then stitch the uterus into place either permanently or temporarily until it reduces and heals,  Do you do that to buffalo cows?  Can they continue to be bred and calve normally?



No, infact giving calcium during pregnancy is counterproductive. If you give them calcium then their ability to extract calcium from their bones is reduced which may cause hypocalcemia. 

I have never had a case of uterine prolapse in any of my buffaloes ever, I have heard that it happens. People call the vet and he cleans the uterus and put it back in place. They do breed and calve, but I don't know whether the delivery is more difficult. 

Buffaloes usually calve easily. Only once few years ago one of my heifers needed help which I was able to provide my self. It was my first time intervening, the calf was rather large and the heifer was small.


----------



## Ridgetop

Small mama - big baby is never easy.  Good thing you were able to help her.  Sheep and goats are easier since smaller but sometimes it takes one of us to hold the ewe and the other to pull!  LOL  The worst birthing I had to help with was my neighbor's Warmblood colt.  Huge colt, mare was exhausted, Nancy was going to pieces because she thought the colt was dead and she couldn't reach the vet.  Her son came running to get me and I was able to work him out finally.  I stuck my finger in his mouth right away and he sucked so I knew he was still alive.  Nancy had to hold the mare and encourage her since she was about done in.  She didn't get up after the birth for about half an hour, but Nancy rubbed and imprinted the foal so that was ok.  Once the mare was up the foal couldn't figure out how to latch on and had to be helped to do that.  We all agreed that his name should be "Blockhead".  Pulling him was a strain and I know why cattle people use that calving winch now!  LOL  Pulling that buffalo calf must have taken a lot of strength!  Wonderful that  you saved it.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Ridgetop said:


> Small mama - big baby is never easy.  Good thing you were able to help her.  Sheep and goats are easier since smaller but sometimes it takes one of us to hold the ewe and the other to pull!  LOL  The worst birthing I had to help with was my neighbor's Warmblood colt.  Huge colt, mare was exhausted, Nancy was going to pieces because she thought the colt was dead and she couldn't reach the vet.  Her son came running to get me and I was able to work him out finally.  I stuck my finger in his mouth right away and he sucked so I knew he was still alive.  Nancy had to hold the mare and encourage her since she was about done in.  She didn't get up after the birth for about half an hour, but Nancy rubbed and imprinted the foal so that was ok.  Once the mare was up the foal couldn't figure out how to latch on and had to be helped to do that.  We all agreed that his name should be "Blockhead".  Pulling him was a strain and I know why cattle people use that calving winch now!  LOL  Pulling that buffalo calf must have taken a lot of strength!  Wonderful that  you saved it.



Actually I didn't need to pull , I just had to massage the head out and the whole calf came out on her own. The head got stuck.


----------



## Baymule

Are the buffaloes herded miles from home in order to graze? 

It is so different here. Everything is private land and fenced. Texas has very little federal land and even federal land is often leased and fenced. So if we want livestock, we need the land to keep them on. If we tried to herd cattle down the road to graze, they would get hit by a car. Even on our small country roads, people drive too fast and are stupid.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Are the buffaloes herded miles from home in order to graze?
> 
> It is so different here. Everything is private land and fenced. Texas has very little federal land and even federal land is often leased and fenced. So if we want livestock, we need the land to keep them on. If we tried to herd cattle down the road to graze, they would get hit by a car. Even on our small country roads, people drive too fast and are stupid.




It depends, during the months of April to mid June there is hardly any rain and the herds have to travel longer distances every day to find water and green grass, typically a couple of miles. South West monsoon typically arrives in mid June. Officially the date is 15 th of June. During monsoon grass is everywhere.

We live very close to Himalayas, so even normal monsoons may cause some flooding. Strong monsoons always cause floods and excess monsoons like the current one brings devastating floods. This year we lost all but one and half hectares of rice. It was a big loss. This monsoon is first excess monsoon in twenty-five years.

Luckily buffaloes don't face much problem, they jump headlong in the flood water and munch on aquatic plants and tree leaves. They can also dive and eat the vegetation that is submerged in the water. Unfortunately however monsoon is also the high calving season for the Buffaloes and the calves are not as water resistant. Strong monsoon is a boon for most of the country, but it's a bane for us.

Rice is harvested in November-December and wheat and other winter crops are sown, so buffaloes have to travel far, because we can't allow them to graze in planted fields. The winter crop is harvested in March-April, buffaloes can graze on empty plots regardless of who owns the plot, but the grass that survives in the shade of the crops don't last long after the crops are harvested.


----------



## River Buffaloes

So I found a YouTube channel made by a Norwegian gentleman who keeps Water Buffaloes. He is new to Buffaloes and he doesn't do everything correctly, but it's a good to see him learning and improving.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Wow!!! thanks for putting this thread on the featured content!!!


----------



## Baymule

He has quite a nice herd of them!


----------



## Bruce

Those buffaloes are more than a little friendly! I wouldn't have guess people in Norway would be raising them.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> He has quite a nice herd of them!



We usually keep a herd of 10-12 buffaloes for personal use. We also engage in purchase and sale of buffaloes with urban and suburban dairy farmers. 

My home is in a very backwater and rural part of India where fodder is cheap and pastures are abundant. Fodder can be expensive in more developed areas, but the price of milk and milk products are high. The dairy farmers from the more developed areas sell their dry buffaloes and weaned calves to us and we keep them and bring them back to milk and then resale the buffaloes back to those farmers at a profit. So we maintain two herds of buffaloes. 

There are animal markets in different villages. Some are organised every week and some are organised every year. We know that on Sunday there will be a market in this village or on Tuesday there will be a market in that village. Some of these markets are very old, there's one market in my State which was around the time of Alexander the Great. Elephants were purchased in this market by Chandragupta Maurya and many of them were gifted by him to Alexander's general Seleucus Nikator who was also Chandragupta Maurya's in-law. He used those elephants in Battle of Ipsus in morden day Turkey where he defeated another of Alexander's generals Antigonus and established the Seleucid dynasty which ruled Persia for like three centuries. 

Sorry for the rambling.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Those buffaloes are more than a little friendly! I wouldn't have guess people in Norway would be raising them.




Buffaloes are very friendly animals, but they are not good for large scale industrial farming. They should be kept in more manageable herds. Ten, twenty, thirty perhaps fifty, I wouldn't advice more than that. It depends on how many you can bond with. They are sensitive animals, you cannot hurt them and expect them to obediently give you milk. You can buy one weaned heifer calf and it will bond with your cow, your horse, your dog, you name it. Say you have ten goats and buy a little buffalo, she will bond with the goats and follow them everywhere even if they completely ignore her she may also protect them from predators.


----------



## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> I wouldn't have guess people in Norway would be raising them.


Weird / Fun fact... the largest population of reindeer are actually in Texas... Not where you would expect to find them either!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Weird / Fun fact... the largest population of reindeer are actually in Texas... Not where you would expect to find them either!



But there's a difference. Buffaloes are mainstream livestock, they are not semidomesticated like reindeer. Reindeer are in process of getting domesticated. They are still not all that different from their wild counterparts. Domestication is a long long process. Domestication must also be organic that is to say decentralised and bottom up. Like we really have no idea who domesticated the first dog or goat or chicken or cattle or pig.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> But there's a difference. Buffaloes are mainstream livestock, they are not semidomesticated like reindeer. Reindeer are in process of getting domesticated. They are still not all that different from their wild counterparts. Domestication is a long long process. Domestication must also be organic that is to say decentralised and bottom up. Like we really have no idea who domesticated the first dog or goat or chicken or cattle or pig.


Understood, but it makes about as much sense for a reindeer which is native to bitter cold to be in a super hot area like Texas as it does for a water buffalo from warm wet areas to be in a cold rocky place like norway, has nothing to do with domesticated or not, just that they are WAY out of their native environments.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Understood, but it makes about as much sense for a reindeer which is native to bitter cold to be in a super hot area like Texas as it does for a water buffalo from warm wet areas to be in a cold rocky place like norway, has nothing to do with domesticated or not, just that they are WAY out of their native environments.



Yes, I understand your point, but a completely domesticated species is widespread. For example chickens were domesticated in South and Southeast Asia from the jungle fowl. They are native to the same areas where buffaloes are native to, but they became widespread in antiquity.

Now obviously chickens mature faster, they reproduce faster and they were domesticated well before water buffaloes so they evolved faster to suit new climates. Just imagine being a person in the Neolithic era, the only metals you have are small amounts of gold, silver and copper, everything else is made of either stone or wood. Now imagine what would be an easier task for you picking up a chicken from the wild or kidnapping a wild buffalo from it's herd?  So domestication of buffaloes started late and was a slower process.

Water Buffaloes inspite of their comparatively late domestication were in Mesopotamia by the Bronze Age and they were in Egypt, Anatolia and Greece by antiquity and we don't know when or how they reached in Italy, Romania or Ukraine, but we know that they were there by the Middle Ages. These areas have reasonably different climatess. They were not only present in these different places, they had also evolved into breeds. There are buffalo breeds that developed in all these different regions Turkey, Egypt, Romania and Italy.  These breeds were also specialised as dairy, meat and draft breeds.

I love that you brought this fact about reindeer. It opened up a good discussion. Now I must also acknowledge that I don't know anything about reindeer. They are also a very intresting animal. I can see them getting more widespread in a few centuries or perhaps millenniums. Then perhaps we can have them in places like India too.


----------



## Bruce

Kusanar said:


> Weird / Fun fact... the largest population of reindeer are actually in Texas... Not where you would expect to find them either!


Given Santa lives at the north pole, what are reindeer used for in TX? I don't recall hearing that there is a market for reindeer meat or milk. If there is it sure isn't a "thing" in VT and I've never seen it in So. Cal.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Given Santa lives at the north pole, what are reindeer used for in TX? I don't recall hearing that there is a market for reindeer meat or milk. If there is it sure isn't a "thing" in VT and I've never seen it in So. Cal.




From what I have been told reindeer provide rich milk albeit in a small amount, just a cup each. Maybe in a more temperate climate like Texas they would provide more milk. I wonder how their meat tastes like.


----------



## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> Given Santa lives at the north pole, what are reindeer used for in TX? I don't recall hearing that there is a market for reindeer meat or milk. If there is it sure isn't a "thing" in VT and I've never seen it in So. Cal.


I believe mostly game ranches for canned hunting. They do sell the meat as well, I have seriously thought of getting some reindeer meat for Christmas dinner before...


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> I believe mostly game ranches for canned hunting. They do sell the meat as well, I have seriously thought of getting some reindeer meat for Christmas dinner before...



Nothing beats the goose for Christmas.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Nothing beats the goose for Christmas.


I've actually never had goose, we traditionally have turkey. I just enjoy the thought of snacking on rabbit for easter or reindeer on christmas...


----------



## KayL

I just discovered this thread and it’s incredibly interesting.

We had bison growing up. I automatically assumed Buffaloes were very much like our wild game to raise and keep, but was _amazed_ to discover how domesticated Buffaloes really are. Thank-you so much!


----------



## Baymule

@River Buffaloes I am so glad that you joined this forum. We have some great discussions here and history lessons too! I loved the elephants and Alexander The Great history. 

@Kusanar where is Texas are the reindeer being raised? Where are you located and can you please put your general location on your avatar?


----------



## River Buffaloes

KayL said:


> I just discovered this thread and it’s incredibly interesting.
> 
> We had bison growing up. I automatically assumed Buffaloes were very much like our wild game to raise and keep, but was _amazed_ to discover how domesticated Buffaloes really are. Thank-you so much!



That's why you may have noticed how much emphasis I put on the difference between animals called buffaloes. This name sharing has given a very bad reputation to Water Buffaloes. Now at the same time we cannot change their name either, because the domestic Water Buffaloes were the first animals to be called buffaloes. In scientific nomenclature you change the name of the species who were named later on. You don't change the name of the original species who were christened with that name.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> @River Buffaloes I am so glad that you joined this forum. We have some great discussions here and history lessons too! I loved the elephants and Alexander The Great history.
> 
> @Kusanar where is Texas are the reindeer being raised? Where are you located and can you please put your general location on your avatar?




I am kind of a history geek, I understand not everyone is interested in history, but I just can't help myself.


----------



## Baymule

I like history too. I love those bits of obscure events that most people don't know. History is fun.


----------



## River Buffaloes

KayL said:


> I just discovered this thread and it’s incredibly interesting.
> 
> We had bison growing up. I automatically assumed Buffaloes were very much like our wild game to raise and keep, but was _amazed_ to discover how domesticated Buffaloes really are. Thank-you so much!



We have our own wild cattle called Gaur. They are much less gregarious than bisons though. They are found in South Asia and parts of South East Asia. 






Their domesticated form is called Mithun or Gayal. They are kept in North East India, in and around Yunnan region of China, Bangladesh and Burma.  We don't have any thread on them either. I hope someday, someone with enough knowledge about them will start.


----------



## Baymule

Those are some big cattle. Love the wild Gaur, they look huge!

Can you please put your general location in your avatar? Just your country is ok, it is interesting to know where people come from. As you read and post on other threads, people may not know where you are. I am really happy that you joined this forum!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Those are some big cattle. Love the wild Gaur, they look huge!
> 
> Can you please put your general location in your avatar? Just your country is ok, it is interesting to know where people come from. As you read and post on other threads, people may not know where you are. I am really happy that you joined this forum!



They are in genus Bos, so they share the same Genus with domestic cattle. They are some very dangerous animals.

I just updated my Avatar.


----------



## Baymule

Do people hunt the Gaur? They sure would provide a lot of meat.


----------



## River Buffaloes

I am in Delhi, but I love Bihar. I know it's got a bad reputation, but I can't help loving. It's in Bihar one can get the true essence of rural India. It gave the world personalities like Buddha, Ashoka, George Orwell etc.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Do people hunt the Gaur? They sure would provide a lot of meat.



No no, they are protected, because they are endangered. Long time ago I saw on TV that they are implanting Gaur zygote in cows.


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> @Kusanar where is Texas are the reindeer being raised? Where are you located and can you please put your general location on your avatar?


I can't remember exactly where they were, I was looking at something on reindeer and came up with that fact in there and it stuck, because TX is one of the last places you would expect to find Alaskan animals. 

I'm in Roanoke area VA. I have my location on BYC and just came back over here after being only over there for a while (years?) to learn more about sheep (will put on here as well, just didn't realize it wasn't there over here). I'm currently digging my way through the entire sheep forum...


----------



## River Buffaloes

There's a great Water Buffalo farm in Canada. It goes by the name "Ontario Water Buffalo Company". They seem to have quite a few Water Buffaloes over there. Unfortunately however they don't have a YouTube channel, though they do have a Facebook Page, I think. 

Here's a tour video of their farm made by a youtuber. It's my fervent desire that you watch this video. I insist because here you can see how buffaloes interact with people, you can see their true nature.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> There's a great Water Buffalo farm in Canada. It goes by the name "Ontario Water Buffalo Company". They seem to have quite a few Water Buffaloes over there. Unfortunately however they don't have a YouTube channel, though they do have a Facebook Page, I think.
> 
> Here's a tour video of their farm made by a youtuber. It's my fervent desire that you watch this video. I insist because here you can see how buffaloes interact with people, you can see their true nature.


Added to my watch later list.


----------



## Bruce

Kusanar said:


> I believe mostly game ranches for canned hunting. They do sell the meat as well, I have seriously thought of getting some reindeer meat for Christmas dinner before...


Captive hunting? How "manly".

Don't forget to put a red nose on that Christmas roast


----------



## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> Captive hunting? How "manly".
> 
> Don't forget to put a red nose on that Christmas roast


I agree. Now, if you are hunting for food, I don't have an issue with baiting because then you have a better chance to pick the one you want and can shoot them while they are calm, in the woods you have a better chance of a bad shot or shooting through 1 and hitting another that you didn't see or having them panic during the last bit of their lives, but if you are hunting because it's the manly thing to do, then go out in the woods and find your own...

There is actually a bison farm that "hunts" their bison rather than running them through a processing plant, they use a sniper riffle with a silencer on it to pick off the one they want and apparently they just lay down where they were eating and it doesn't even freak out the rest of the herd. 

I would totally throw something red in the pot to be a nose!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Did any of you watch the video?


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Did any of you watch the video?


Not yet, this weekend. I have it saved though.


----------



## Baymule

I'm about to get outside for the day, will watch it later, My internet is lousy, I get a few minutes then the "circle of doom" while it loads, a few minutes, circle of doom, more circle of doom that minutes to watch. 

@Kusanar Texas has LOTS of exotics. On west Texas ranches, many exotics have naturalized and are considered part of the wildlife now. The King Ranch imported Nilgai antelope  a hundred years ago, thinking they would be herded like cattle and be a great meat source. Uhhhhhh NOPE. They are a great meat source, but are extremely wild and RUN, thus cannot be herded or used like cattle in any way. Nilgai are now naturalized in many areas of south Texas and hunted like any other wildlife. 

I'm like you-Reindeer in Texas? Then on the flip side, why not? We have Elk too and they are cool/cold weather animals, though not as extreme as Reindeer. I don't know of any Moose in Texas, but that doesn't mean anything.


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> @Kusanar Texas has LOTS of exotics.


Yeah, there is currently a big stink about a tame, halter broke zebra that is going to a canned hunting place if no one buys him first. 

Another weird one with animals not being where you would expect, is that apparently Saudi Arabia buys camels from Australia...


----------



## River Buffaloes

I forgot that the internet is not as cheap in USA as it is in India. We get 4G network, two GB data each day + unlimited call and SMS for three months, for less than 600 ₹ that would be 8 $. I don't know the price of internet in the States though, but I would guess that it is much more expensive. I also have access to two WiFi networks, one at workplace and one at my flat, so most of data remains unused.

My apologies, pardon me for my foolish mistake.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I forgot that the internet is not as cheap in USA as it is in India. We get 4G network, two GB data each day + unlimited call and SMS for three months, for less than 600 ₹ that would be 8 $. I don't know the price of internet in the States though, but I would guess that it is much more expensive. I also have access to two WiFi networks, one at workplace and one at my flat, so most of data remains unused.
> 
> My apologies, pardon me for my foolish mistake.


I have a monthly cell phone plan, this includes 2GB of high speed (mostly 3G as we don't have many 4G towers here yet) and then if you use all of that inside of 1 month, they give you 2G after that. I have unlimited call and text. This is almost $35 each month.

But, we don't have as dense a population as you have in India, so we have entire areas that have no signal at all, then you have to use satellite data which is VERY expensive. Usually in the cities you have good signal and faster speeds available, but when you get out in the country where people with livestock usually live, the choices get very limited and the ones you have are very slow. 

Also, I don't know about India, but in the US, most wifi is password locked, for example, we have internet and wifi at work, but I cannot use it and there is very little cell signal inside the building, so if I need to send a photo from my phone to my work computer I have to go outside and stand around for a few minutes until it sends. We do have SOME public and semi public wifi, for example, libraries typically have a signal that anyone can use without the password. Some restaurants also have wifi signals that people can use but most of the time you have to get the password from inside with the expectation that you will buy food if you use the internet.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> I have a monthly cell phone plan, this includes 2GB of high speed (mostly 3G as we don't have many 4G towers here yet) and then if you use all of that inside of 1 month, they give you 2G after that. I have unlimited call and text. This is almost $35 each month.
> 
> But, we don't have as dense a population as you have in India, so we have entire areas that have no signal at all, then you have to use satellite data which is VERY expensive. Usually in the cities you have good signal and faster speeds available, but when you get out in the country where people with livestock usually live, the choices get very limited and the ones you have are very slow.
> 
> Also, I don't know about India, but in the US, most wifi is password locked, for example, we have internet and wifi at work, but I cannot use it and there is very little cell signal inside the building, so if I need to send a photo from my phone to my work computer I have to go outside and stand around for a few minutes until it sends. We do have SOME public and semi public wifi, for example, libraries typically have a signal that anyone can use without the password. Some restaurants also have wifi signals that people can use but most of the time you have to get the password from inside with the expectation that you will buy food if you use the internet.




Sometimes when I am out on a trip and I don't have WiFi I end up using all 2 GB high speed data on a single day and then the plan provides I love watching YouTube videos and also listening to audiobooks. This has become kind of a habit, when I am doing my job, I just keep listening while I am working. For example I have both read and heard Elizabeth Beeton's book on household management, I really don't need to listen to that.  I just listened that 10 hours long audiobook because I found it interesting. Currently I am listening to Christopher Hitchens book "No One Left to Lie to" that is about the Clinton's, I just smiled on a satirical line and my colleague asked me "why are you smiling?" , I replied "you will not get it".

Even in New Delhi there are places where the internet is terrible. It really depends on the service provider. In some place one company's network is good and in other places a different company provides a better network. There's also a telecom company owned by government. 

WiFi is password protected here too, but the landlord's give free WiFi to the tenants, really because it's so cheap, it's cheaper than the 3 month plan that I have. When I was in college I used to get free WiFi there too. On big railway stations we get free WiFi, but only for one or two hours. 

India has it's short comings, arguably a lots of shortcomings, but it's a really cheap place. I earn around 650$s a month, I am able to live comfortably in Delhi and I am also able to send money back. 

My grandfather worked in Merchant Navy, for multinational shipping company now called MSC-Mersk, he was just an engineer, but the dollers
he got translated into a lot of Indian money. We still have his money left in banks and real-estate investments he made gives my grandmother around 500 $ each month. With that money and money sent by me and my uncle and money earned from farming allow us to hire 3 servants for doing household and farm works.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> India has it's short comings, arguably a lots of shortcomings, but it's a really cheap place. I earn around 650$s a month, I am able to live comfortably in Delhi and I am also able to send money back.


Wow, even at minimum wage we make almost 2 times that amount per month (minimum is around $7 an hour, 40 hours per week)


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Wow, even at minimum wage we make almost 2 times that amount per month (minimum is around $7 an hour, 40 hours per week)




I think there are many reasons, both socioeconomic traditions and government policy, why things are cheap here. Government provides heavily subsidized rice and wheat to a vast majority of people, almost every household without a government job, many people just don't choose to take it. Our homes are not mortgaged, most people have ancestral homes, like my houses were built by my grandfather. Some folks live in houses that were built by their great-grandfather. If you just have land, but you are too poor to build a house, government provides you some help. If you don't have land, you may also get some land. We also have something called "Minimum Support Price", if a farmer grows something, but cannot sell it at profit, he can sell that to the government on minimum support price at a profit. If a district is declared "flood affected" or "drought affected" it's farmers get compensation from the government. Farmers also get some help in sowing seasons (generally there are two sowing seasons). If we produce more milk than we can consume or sell in market, we can sell that to "milk collection centers". Two or three generations live in a family, so you don't need a babysitter, still if you don't have anyone to look after your toddlers you can put them in a place called "Aanganbaadi" and collect them when you are free. There the children are given milk and special toffee which contains nutrients and also food, it is also free. Government schools are free and colleges and universities are very affordable. Like the college I graduated from only cost me 72$ over three years. There are government hospitals too, but their quality vary a lot. In New Delhi for example all government doctors are very good and they have world class technology, but for something that is not urgent, we have to wait for weeks. I had to wait for two weeks for a sonography. I ended up getting it done from a private technician, but I think it's good for someone who cannot afford private healthcare at all. 

Long story short, people don't have a lot of expense and Indians are rather thrifty. I guess people are not looking to buy a lots of stuff, the stuff remain cheap. But that's just my theory.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I think there are many reasons, both socioeconomic traditions and government policy, why things are cheap here. Government provides heavily subsidized rice and wheat to a vast majority of people, almost every household without a government job, many people just don't choose to take it. Our homes are not mortgaged, most people have ancestral homes, like my houses were built by my grandfather. Some folks live in houses that were built by their great-grandfather. If you just have land, but you are too poor to build a house, government provides you some help. If you don't have land, you may also get some land. We also have something called "Minimum Support Price", if a farmer grows something, but cannot sell it at profit, he can sell that to the government on minimum support price at a profit. If a district is declared "flood affected" or "drought affected" it's farmers get compensation from the government. Farmers also get some help in sowing seasons (generally there are two sowing seasons). If we produce more milk than we can consume or sell in market, we can sell that to "milk collection centers". Two or three generations live in a family, so you don't need a babysitter, still if you don't have anyone to look after your toddlers you can put them in a place called "Aanganbaadi" and collect them when you are free. There the children are given milk and special toffee which contains nutrients and also food, it is also free. Government schools are free and colleges and universities are very affordable. Like the college I graduated from only cost me 72$ over three years. There are government hospitals too, but their quality vary a lot. In New Delhi for example all government doctors are very good and they have world class technology, but for something that is not urgent, we have to wait for weeks. I had to wait for two weeks for a sonography. I ended up getting it done from a private technician, but I think it's good for someone who cannot afford private healthcare at all.
> 
> Long story short, people don't have a lot of expense and Indians are rather thrifty. I guess people are not looking to buy a lots of stuff, the stuff remain cheap. But that's just my theory.


You probably also don't have a lot of multi millionaires that want to own everything either though. The money that is there is spread out a little more evenly (more even than one person have 500 million and someone else sleeping on a bench because they have nowhere to live and everything they own fits in a trash bag)


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> Did any of you watch the video?


Yes. She's quite game isn't she! That farm is about 300 miles (480 km) from me. Can you imagine going from 2 buffaloes to 600?? I wonder if that was the original plan or "buffalo math" got them.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> You probably also don't have a lot of multi millionaires that want to own everything either though. The money that is there is spread out a little more evenly (more even than one person have 500 million and someone else sleeping on a bench because they have nowhere to live and everything they own fits in a trash bag)




There are multimillionairs and there are people sleeping on the bench. There is a lot of poverty in India. Many people are living in extreme misery. There are many reasons for that too. Caste system is a major driving force behind the poverty and it's very pervasive. It persists even after conversion. Corruption is another major, if you are weak, that is to say 'if you don't have links to powerful people', bureaucrats will steal your benefits. 

There are also many legal reasons. According to Hindu personal law you cannot disinherit your child from your ancestral property, but according to Muslim and Christian personal law you can. According to Christian and Muslim personal law, you cannot legally adopt a child. If you are a Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist, you can, but only if you don't have a child or a grandchild. If you are a single person you cannot adopt a girl if you are a man and you cannot adopt a boy if you are a woman. The difference between your age and the person to be adopted must be 21 years and you can adopt no more than one. So there are many orphans and disinherited children running around. They add to the poor populations. 

Divorce laws are also different because of different personal laws, a Muslim man can divorce his wife within months, for a Hindu person it takes one year and for a Christian person it takes three years. 

Intercaste or intercommumal love marriages may result in expulsion from the family and villages. Many people permanently leave their ancestral villages because of the honour killings. People often kill runaway daughters and/or their lovers to restore the honour of their family. So many people don't dare to return to their property and they end up being poor. 

Many people just loose everything and become poor because of addictions, gambling or just bad investment.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Yes. She's quite game isn't she! That farm is about 300 miles (480 km) from me. Can you imagine going from 2 buffaloes to 600?? I wonder if that was the original plan or "buffalo math" got them.



Seriously buffaloes are like addictions. There are so many YouTube channels here that feature buffaloes. Cows are worshipped and considered sacred in India, but buffaloes sell for twice or more even when they give same or less amount of milk.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Yes. She's quite game isn't she! That farm is about 300 miles (480 km) from me. Can you imagine going from 2 buffaloes to 600?? I wonder if that was the original plan or "buffalo math" got them.



I honestly never imagined a redhead riding a buffalo. There's nothing wrong about that, that's just something you don't expect.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> I forgot that the internet is not as cheap in USA as it is in India. We get 4G network, two GB data each day + unlimited call and SMS for three months, for less than 600 ₹ that would be 8 $. I don't know the price of internet in the States though, but I would guess that it is much more expensive. I also have access to two WiFi networks, one at workplace and one at my flat, so most of data remains unused.
> 
> My apologies, pardon me for my foolish mistake.


NO NO NO! That is NOT a foolish mistake. We live an equal distance between 3 towns-9 miles. It's not like we are on the butt-end of nowhere, but the only internet service is satellite, same with TV. Internet is $80 per month and so is TV. Both go off in bad weather. So when the news on TV interrupts the program to warn everyone of approaching tornadoes, just before it gets to our area, the satellite goes off and no TV. Do we run? Get in the car and leave? Hide in a small windowless room? That would be a closet and we would probably get beat to death by all the stuff in the closet.   

Some people even put up their own towers for internet service. We had several companies come out and test, but the trees here are too tall and block the signal. 

When we moved, we sat out here with nothing but cell service, that is bad too. So spotty satellite service with lousy reception sure looked good to me! Our cell reception is so bad that we sometimes have to go stand out in the road to have a conversation. 

I can't believe the price of your internet! And not to mention that it actually WORKS! WOW!


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> Our cell reception is so bad that we sometimes have to go stand out in the road to have a conversation.


You got us beat there! To make a cell phone call we have to drive about 2 miles. Texts work kinda OK ... sometimes. Other times "not sent try again later". Our internet is DSL through the phone line. Internet (15 mbps on a REALLY REALLY good day) and the land line are nearly $130/month. No TV service. We are 5 miles from the center of a city of 7,000 surrounded by a town of the same size.


----------



## Baymule

We don't even have a land line, it's AT&T and it is lousy service. In fact, our cell phones are AT&T, AT&T bought out Direct TV too. I see  pattern here.......

The satellite internet is Hughes Net. Not great, but it beats a cell phone with intermittent signal, we usually have one bar on the cell phones. We get the   not sent texts too.


----------



## Baymule

Ok, so each religion has its own laws? Religions here can have all the beliefs they want, but laws belong to the State or Federal law. there are not different laws for Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists, men, women or anybody. Law is the same for everybody. That said, poor people go to jail because they cannot afford a lawyer, middle class people-it's a toss up, wealthy people usually stay out of jail because they can afford the best lawyers. Equal does not always mean equal. 

Honestly, I think every country's laws are disfunctional. Some are better than others, some are worse and some are so bad, that-DON'T GO THERE!


----------



## Baymule

I watched the video!!    that looked like fun! I would totally wade out in a muddy pond to ride a buffalo! The buffalo are very friendly and love people. 
I looked up their web site.





__





						Home | The Buff Stuff Store Buffalo Farm | Ontario Water Buffalo Company | Stirling
					

Buffalo Farm | Ontario Water Buffalo Company | Ontario




					www.ontariowaterbuffalo.ca


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I'm about to get outside for the day, will watch it later, My internet is lousy, I get a few minutes then the "circle of doom" while it loads, a few minutes, circle of doom, more circle of doom that minutes to watch.
> 
> @Kusanar Texas has LOTS of exotics. On west Texas ranches, many exotics have naturalized and are considered part of the wildlife now. The King Ranch imported Nilgai antelope  a hundred years ago, thinking they would be herded like cattle and be a great meat source. Uhhhhhh NOPE. They are a great meat source, but are extremely wild and RUN, thus cannot be herded or used like cattle in any way. Nilgai are now naturalized in many areas of south Texas and hunted like any other wildlife.
> 
> I'm like you-Reindeer in Texas? Then on the flip side, why not? We have Elk too and they are cool/cold weather animals, though not as extreme as Reindeer. I don't know of any Moose in Texas, but that doesn't mean anything.



I forgot to mention the Nilgai. They are considered agricultural pests in India, but you cannot shoot them. We have to petition the authorities and they conduct a count and only if they conclude that the problem is serious they send hunters to shoot a certain amount of Nilgai. 

They are not domesticable animals. We have domesticated Chickens, Zebu cattle, Buffaloes even Gaur. If they were suitable for domestication I am sure they would have been already domesticated.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> NO NO NO! That is NOT a foolish mistake. We live an equal distance between 3 towns-9 miles. It's not like we are on the butt-end of nowhere, but the only internet service is satellite, same with TV. Internet is $80 per month and so is TV. Both go off in bad weather. So when the news on TV interrupts the program to warn everyone of approaching tornadoes, just before it gets to our area, the satellite goes off and no TV. Do we run? Get in the car and leave? Hide in a small windowless room? That would be a closet and we would probably get beat to death by all the stuff in the closet.
> 
> Some people even put up their own towers for internet service. We had several companies come out and test, but the trees here are too tall and block the signal.
> 
> When we moved, we sat out here with nothing but cell service, that is bad too. So spotty satellite service with lousy reception sure looked good to me! Our cell reception is so bad that we sometimes have to go stand out in the road to have a conversation.
> 
> I can't believe the price of your internet! And not to mention that it actually WORKS! WOW!



It does actually works, there are so many stuff going online here.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Ok, so each religion has its own laws? Religions here can have all the beliefs they want, but laws belong to the State or Federal law. there are not different laws for Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists, men, women or anybody. Law is the same for everybody. That said, poor people go to jail because they cannot afford a lawyer, middle class people-it's a toss up, wealthy people usually stay out of jail because they can afford the best lawyers. Equal does not always mean equal.
> 
> Honestly, I think every country's laws are disfunctional. Some are better than others, some are worse and some are so bad, that-DON'T GO THERE!




Criminal law is same for all, Civil Law is different for each religion. Like penalty for a theft, a murder or robbery is same, but laws for inheritance, marriage, divorce, adoption is personal are different for every religion.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> I forgot to mention the Nilgai. They are considered agricultural pests in India, but you cannot shoot them. We have to petition the authorities and they conduct a count and only if they conclude that the problem is serious they send hunters to shoot a certain amount of Nilgai.
> 
> They are not domesticable animals. We have domesticated Chickens, Zebu cattle, Buffaloes even Gaur. If they were suitable for domestication I am sure they would have been already domesticated.



India has been doing what India does for thousands of years. Yep, if Nilgai were able to be domesticated, they would have been. 

Chickens originated from India, look at them now. In every country, hundreds if not thousands of breeds, with many breeds having several colors. Peafowl also come from India. There is a zoo in Lufkin, Tx that has a free ranging population of India Blue peafowl. It's fun to go there.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> Criminal law is same for all, Civil Law is different for each religion. Like penalty for a theft, a murder or robbery is same, but laws for inheritance, marriage, divorce, adoption is personal are different for every religion.


That's an awful lot for the courts to keep up with. LOL LOL


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> That's an awful lot for the courts to keep up with. LOL LOL



Iver Jennings remarked after reading the constitution that India will be a heaven for lawyers. Courts are really crowded and there's always backlogs. 

In India you cannot register as atheist. You have to register in one of the recognised religions. A person is assigned the religion and caste of his/her father (not mother). If you are atheist, you are free to believe what you believe, but you will have to register to a religion. If you convert as an adult, you will have to proclaim the conversion in a newspaper and then the district official will grant you a certificate and then you will be registered to your new religion. 

Religious conversion is also a ground for divorce, suppose your spouse converted after marriage then you can divorce her. If your spouse lied to you about his/her religion and you found out about his true religion later on, you can get an annulment.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Another interesting stuff. Indipendence of India was not as clear cut as people may think. It was not like every British person left India after independence. Many British people, specially the older folks stayed and continued serving in the administration. Some of them stayed because they liked it here, but most of them stayed because they cannot afford maintaining the lifestyle they were used to back in England. They could not afford to keep cook, maid, valet, chauffeurs etc in UK. So they stayed.


----------



## Baymule

That just goes to show you that the people of India held no grudges against the people of Britain, they just wanted to govern themselves. It makes sense that people would stay rather than go back to England, India had become home.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I watched the video!!    that looked like fun! I would totally wade out in a muddy pond to ride a buffalo! The buffalo are very friendly and love people.
> I looked up their web site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Home | The Buff Stuff Store Buffalo Farm | Ontario Water Buffalo Company | Stirling
> 
> 
> Buffalo Farm | Ontario Water Buffalo Company | Ontario
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ontariowaterbuffalo.ca




So I read what they have to say about the Water Buffaloes and it's generally pretty accurate and short. I am not so sure about the dog comparison. Buffaloes are not like dogs or cats, dogs look up to us, cats look down on us, buffaloes look eye to eye. They consider us one of themselves, they take us as equals. They will come when you call them they will come running, grunting all the way as if they are saying "here I am coming, dear", but suppose you tell them to get out of the pond you might get the reply "naah, I guess I would like to swim some more".


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> I forgot to mention the Nilgai.


They look like they could decimate a crop pretty quickly.



River Buffaloes said:


> In India you cannot register as atheist. You have to register in one of the recognised religions.


Fortunately we are not required to declare a religious affiliation and there are dozens of them though many are "branches" of the same one. We also are not required to declare a political affiliation though (at least here in Vermont) when you vote in a primary you have to tell them which party's ballot you want. You can't vote for a Republican for one office and a Democrat for another.

Everyone gets the same ballot for the general election. There are an amazing 21 pairs of President/Vice President to choose from. Including "parties" I've never heard of like "Boiling Frog", "Bread and Roses", "American Solidarity", "Grumpy Old Patriots", "Approval Voting".


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> They look like they could decimate a crop pretty quickly.
> 
> 
> Fortunately we are not required to declare a religious affiliation and there are dozens of them though many are "branches" of the same one. We also are not required to declare a political affiliation though (at least here in Vermont) when you vote in a primary you have to tell them which party's ballot you want. You can't vote for a Republican for one office and a Democrat for another.
> 
> Everyone gets the same ballot for the general election. There are an amazing 21 pairs of President/Vice President to choose from. Including "parties" I've never heard of like "Boiling Frog", "Bread and Roses", "American Solidarity", "Grumpy Old Patriots", "Approval Voting".



We need to declare our religion in the census, but any institute who gets funds from the government cannot discriminate against any religion. Anyone who employs less than 50 individuals may choose employees or cater their services according to caste, religion, language, ethnicity or gender, but then they are no longer eligible for any government help if such a situation arises, exception to this rule are '' non profit cultural institutes".

 For example there's an organisation who works to protect the Jewish heritage of India. Now India is home to a very minute Jewish population, mostly consisting of older folks. This wasn't the case before 1950's, Jews were settling in India since the days Ceaser Augustus. After the annexation of Egypt by the Roman Empire the trade between India and Rome flourished and a small number of Jews started settling in India. First wave of Large scale Jewish immigration came after Jews were expelled from Palestine by the Romans in 60 AD. Second wave came after Jews were getting expelled from Western European Kingdoms. However after the creation of Israel most of the Jewish population of India made Aliyah. So There's more than two thousand years old history of Jewish Heritage in India. So Indian Jewish Community Center, even though it serves a particular community is eligible for government aid.

We are not required to declare political affiliation either. Indian politics is stupid crazy.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> Indian politics is stupid crazy.


Just like USA politics!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Coming back to Water Buffaloes, it's worth mentioning that the contribution of Water Buffaloes in Global Milk Production is second only to cows. They contribute more to global milk production than goats.

Buffalo milk is very healthy and flavourfull. I am not sure about how much other BYH members care about A1 and A2 milk, but for the record buffalo milk is always A2. It contains higher amount of total solids that is protein, fat, calcium, phosphorus etc. 

Buffalo milk is significantly low in cholesterol. Substituting cows milk with buffaloes milk greatly reduces chances of heart issues. Since their milk have a higher fat and protein content it is excellent for weight gain and muscle mass. Now fat in buffalo milk is a healthy fat, it's a low cholesterol fat. It's a very suitable milk for those who do exercise or physical labour. It contains nearly twice as much calories as cows milk so it keeps you full for a longer period time.

Buffalo milk boasts of decent potassium content that is extremely crucial for stable blood pressure. Potassium acts as a vasodilator which widens the blood vessels and arteries and ensures easy blood flow. Potassium can also prevent other coronary complications like hardening of arteries.

Buffalo milk is a rich source of calcium. Buffalo milk is also loaded with other minerals such as copper, manganese, phosphorous and zinc which further helps strengthen bones. Buffalo milk has more calcium than cow milk. It may help prevent onset of bone related ailments like osteoporosis and arthritis.

The only mainstream milk that is arguably more beneficial than Buffalo's milk, is sheep's milk. That is nutritionally speaking.


----------



## Bruce

Apparently, like goat milk, water buffalo milk is low in lactose so people sensitive to it can drink water buffalo milk.


----------



## rachels.haven

Indian politics are painful to hear about. I'm sorry. The husband who winds up hearing about everything and has lots of Indian co-workers so he winds up bringing home and following more international news than I could stomach. The indian people have to be very strong to co-exist with it. Your politics make our politics look tame and polite. I'm glad you've got your buffaloe.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Apparently, like goat milk, water buffalo milk is low in lactose so people sensitive to it can drink water buffalo milk.



The higher fat content in the buffalo milk negates the affects of lactose too.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> The only mainstream milk that is arguably more beneficial than Buffalo's milk, is sheep's milk. That is nutritionally speaking.


So I guess I need to get out there and milk my sheep when they lamb...... Here is a picture on Miranda in 2018, six days before she lambed. She always gets huge!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> So I guess I need to get out there and milk my sheep when they lamb...... Here is a picture on Miranda in 2018, six days before she lambed. She always gets huge!




You definitely should. Here's a chart that compares nutritional content of human, cow, buffalo, goat and sheep milk. These are numbers are not set in stone though, that's my experience. Nutritional content in milk changes with diet, breed, individual characteristics of the animal and the time since calving. I have only measured fat content in my buffaloes milk, the lowest I have got was 7.2% fat and the highest was 12.5%.  Still I think you should see this chart.


----------



## Baymule

That's impressive. I have never milked any animal except for a couple of times when I needed colostrum for their lambs that were weak. THAT was a wild sheep rodeo! The idea that my girls would get on a milk stanchion and calmly let me milk them presents a mental picture of me and a ewe having a train wreck. LOL LOL Maybe I should work on that. Some of my girls don't even want me to touch them--except for the palm of my hand as they gobble up a treat. Others will follow me to get petted and scratched. I love my sheep!


----------



## River Buffaloes

They are animals of habit. Imagine the first person trying to milk an auroch or the Asian Wild Buffalo or Wild Goat. How did they do it? I bet they did it without a stanchion. I have never used stanchion, I have never seen it being used either. I don't think it will go well if I try to milk my buffalo in a stanchion.


----------



## Baymule

I have a raised milk stanchion for goats. It has a ramp and a place to put feed so they can eat while being milked. I have used it for my sheep to trim hooves. It is wild. Some of them are ok and I can trim their feet with little trouble. Some struggle, kick, have a fit and fight. I come away bruised, sore ribs, tired and vowing to throw them and hog tie their feet together the next time. LOL


----------



## Baymule

This is my stanchion


----------



## River Buffaloes

I had plans to add goats too. 2-6 goats would have been enough. My plans unfortunately were thrown off because of Covid19 and the terrible floods that we suffered this year.


----------



## Baymule

What breeds of goats are there in India and what breeds are used for milk production? I'm sorry your plans got cancelled because of events beyond your control.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> What breeds of goats are there in India and what breeds are used for milk production? I'm sorry your plans got cancelled because of events beyond your control.



Oh we have so many different breeds of goats here. The number of Breeds noted for their milk production is small. Notable among them are Jamunapari, Beetal, Sirohi, Barbari, Malabari, Jhalwadi, Marwari, Osmanabadi, Mehsana and Jakhrana. There are so many other breeds mainly kept for meat and fiber. But honestly you know, there's no goat we will not milk.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> The idea that my girls would get on a milk stanchion and calmly let me milk them presents a mental picture of me and a ewe having a train wreck.


Never know until you try Bay! That chart RB showed looks like a pretty good case for sheep milk.



River Buffaloes said:


> But honestly you know, there's no goat we will not milk.


I think I'd skip the bucks


----------



## Baymule

Maybe if I started with young ewe lambs and got them used to it, that might work.


----------



## River Buffaloes

I have failed to understand all this craze among the homesteaders about Alpacas and Lamas? How much milk do they produce? How much weight they can carry? How much weight they can pull? Why can't they keep a small herd of Water Buffaloes instead of Alpacas?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Maybe if I started with young ewe lambs and got them used to it, that might work.



That's a good idea?


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> I have failed to understand all this craze among the homesteaders about Alpacas and Lamas? How much milk do they produce? How much weight they can carry? How much weight they can pull? Why can't they keep a small herd of Water Buffaloes instead of Alpacas?


Alpacas have soft, warm wool. They were introduced to the USA as a way to get rich. Yeah, right. At the height of the craze, they sold for $10,000 each. Then the bottom fell out and you can now buy them for a few hundred. Llamas are touted as pasture guards, but in reality, they are prey animals too. About all they can scare off is stray dogs. 

I guess water buffaloes aren't fuzzy and "cute" so do not attract the attention that cute and fuzzy does. Water buffaloes aren't as well known here, but certainly sound like they would be worth much, much more on the homestead. Until you started this thread, I never gave them much thought. See? You are doing a wonderful work, promoting water buffaloes!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Alpacas have soft, warm wool. They were introduced to the USA as a way to get rich. Yeah, right. At the height of the craze, they sold for $10,000 each. Then the bottom fell out and you can now buy them for a few hundred. Llamas are touted as pasture guards, but in reality, they are prey animals too. About all they can scare off is stray dogs.
> 
> I guess water buffaloes aren't fuzzy and "cute" so do not attract the attention that cute and fuzzy does. Water buffaloes aren't as well known here, but certainly sound like they would be worth much, much more on the homestead. Until you started this thread, I never gave them much thought. See? You are doing a wonderful work, promoting water buffaloes!



Well I saw they were being neglected on this forum. Their contribution in agriculture economy is next only to cattle. You should think about it this way, that even in a country where cows are worshipped the average price of buffalo is more than twice than that of cows.


----------



## River Buffaloes

South America where llamas and alpacas are native to Water Buffaloes are gaining remarkable popularity and so are Zebu cattle. There are buffaloes in every country between Argentina and Panama. They have reached a stage where they are developing their own breeds. Though I have noted that unlike European countries and North America, Indian breeds of Buffaloes are more popular in Latin America than the Mediterranean breed which are more popular in North America and Europe. Bulgaria is the only country that I know of who has imported any significant amount of Indian breeds.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I have seen Zebu's listed for sale around here but the prices  are stupid high, no water Buffalo  though..., guess we are missing out on a wonderful  animal. Thanks for the education on the water Buffalo,  this has been a very interesting  read


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I have failed to understand all this craze among the homesteaders about Alpacas and Lamas? How much milk do they produce? How much weight they can carry? How much weight they can pull? Why can't they keep a small herd of Water Buffaloes instead of Alpacas?


Most Llamas and Alpacas are raised for their fleece, some llamas are used as guardian animals. So far as I know, people don't milk either animal. For weight, Llamas are pack animals and google says they can carry 75-100 lbs each, alpacas are not built to carry loads at all. For how much they can pull, they aren't really built for pulling but they do break llamas to pull a lightweight, large wheeled cart like a pony cart sometimes. 

I would love a water buffalo personally. Make my husband ride it. lol



River Buffaloes said:


> ou should think about it this way, that even in a country where cows are worshipped the average price of buffalo is more than twice than that of cows.


I may be misunderstanding, but it seems like in a country that worships cows that cows would be fairly worthless. I mean, I wouldn't eat an animal I worshiped or make it pull a load. Seems like the only use for a cow would be to feed it and look at it. Like I said, could be misunderstanding but I have some experience working in a restaurant and having Indian people come in and demand that we clean the grill and only cook chicken when their food was being cooked so they didn't get any beef juice on their food from someone else's food so that seems like they certainly wouldn't be eaten...


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Most Llamas and Alpacas are raised for their fleece, some llamas are used as guardian animals. So far as I know, people don't milk either animal. For weight, Llamas are pack animals and google says they can carry 75-100 lbs each, alpacas are not built to carry loads at all. For how much they can pull, they aren't really built for pulling but they do break llamas to pull a lightweight, large wheeled cart like a pony cart sometimes.
> 
> I would love a water buffalo personally. Make my husband ride it. lol
> 
> 
> I may be misunderstanding, but it seems like in a country that worships cows that cows would be fairly worthless. I mean, I wouldn't eat an animal I worshiped or make it pull a load. Seems like the only use for a cow would be to feed it and look at it. Like I said, could be misunderstanding but I have some experience working in a restaurant and having Indian people come in and demand that we clean the grill and only cook chicken when their food was being cooked so they didn't get any beef juice on their food from someone else's food so that seems like they certainly wouldn't be eaten...



No, cows are milked and oxen were used for pulling carts and ploughing fields.


----------



## River Buffaloes

All of India is not Hindu majority, in Kerela and Bengal where Hindus have a majority slaughter of cows and consumption of beef is allowed. In Kashmir which is a Muslim majority State slaughter of cows is prohibited. Cow slaughter in all of the North Eastern States with the exception of Assam is allowed.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Why is it that only 1/6th of the cattles are male? Where are they disappearing


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Why is it that only 1/6th of the cattles are male? Where are they disappearing


In the USA, (can't speak for other countries) dairy breed males are mostly slaughtered for lower grade beef, mostly for pet food and hamburger, some are raised for Veal which (not sure if you are familiar with the term or not) is young, usually just barely weaned or not weaned cattle, usually around 400-600 lbs. 

Most small farms will have 1 bull or even no bulls in with their cows. Dairy cows are almost all artificially inseminated and a some beef cows are as well. There are also farms that will share 1 bull, where one farm owns the bull and keeps him most of the year and then another farm can pay $50-100 to keep him for a month or whatever they arrange with the bull owner. That way the same bull can breed cows at several farms. 

I'm honestly surprised that the number is as high as 1/6th because of how many of the males are slaughtered as yearlings or younger.


----------



## Baymule

Case in point, we have one of those male cattle right now that will go for beef in March.


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> Case in point, we have one of those male cattle right now that will go for beef in March.


How old will he be? Beef or Dairy breed?


----------



## Baymule

Half Hereford, half Charolais. He’ll be 1 1/2 years old. He’s already spoiled.


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> Half Hereford, half Charolais. He’ll be 1 1/2 years old. He’s already spoiled.


That should be a pretty beefy boy!


----------



## Bruce

I expect an alpaca could carry a light load, like your rain poncho and lunch


----------



## Baymule

Kusanar said:


> That should be a pretty beefy boy!


He is!





__





						Our Steer is Here!
					

Our steer was delivered today. He was born last October, 2019. He has a slaughter date in March 2021. He is half Charolais and half Hereford. We named him Goldie.



					www.backyardherds.com


----------



## River Buffaloes

Here you can buy a nice cow calf pair that can provide more than enough milk for your family and extra for sale in 400$. Buffaloes don't even start at that price.


----------



## Baymule

What prices do buffalo sell for?


----------



## River Buffaloes

A good quality buffalo will cost upwards of 800$, but price varies according to season. You see buffaloes have a thing called 'calving season', that is the high monsoon season between July to September. 75% of the Buffaloes will calve during this season.



This causes an interesting problem, many rural parts of the country is flooded and people want to sell their buffaloes. Regions which do not face flooding problems are trying to plant the rice crop for which they need money so they want to sell their buffaloes as well. A significant part of the land is covered with either rice crop or flood so the land available for grazing is limited and the fodder the farmers store for their buffaloes gets either depleted or spoilt due to rain. 



With the retreat of monsoon the number of Buffaloes calving also drops and the number of people who were desperate to sell their buffaloes also start to decrease. After the harvest of rice a good amount of land is planted with fodder crops like oat, Egyptian clover, Lucerne etc and in January there's a festival in which milk is required so more people start looking for buffaloes, but less buffaloes are for sale so the price of Buffaloes become high. During the hight of the summer in April-May there's barely any newly freshend Buffalo, but the demand of buffalo is very high because in intense summer people want to eat yoghurt and drinks made from yoghurt. 

Price of cows also fall during the monsoon season, but they calve year round. The price of buffalo I told is when their price is lowest.


----------



## Baymule

Do the buffaloes live outside in all seasons or do they have a barn/shelter? Some people leave their cattle out all year, some provide a barn or 3 sided shelter. I guess I'm a softie, I want all my animals to have access to shelter if they want it. Even though we have lots of trees and shade, the horses love their barn and will just stand around in it, the sheep love their barn and in the heat of the day, will BAA BAA BAA at me to go back to their cool barn. LOL My feeder pigs have shelter, now being used by the steer.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Do the buffaloes live outside in all seasons or do they have a barn/shelter? Some people leave their cattle out all year, some provide a barn or 3 sided shelter. I guess I'm a softie, I want all my animals to have access to shelter if they want it. Even though we have lots of trees and shade, the horses love their barn and will just stand around in it, the sheep love their barn and in the heat of the day, will BAA BAA BAA at me to go back to their cool barn. LOL My feeder pigs have shelter, now being used by the steer.



It really depends, it depends on seasons, it depends on the time of the day and also the place. There's a buffalo breed called Banni, it's kept in Gujarat by herders. The buffalo is kept in an enclosure under trees during the day and they graze in the saltpans during the night. 

In our place they are left in the open during the night in summer and are sheltered during the day and vice versa in the winters. They also are taken out to pasture at dawn and late afternoon. During the monsoon season they remain outside all day because the weather though uncomfortable, is not deadly, but we also keep them out because of the fear of floods. 

I vividly remember the massive flood of 2008, I was at my maternal grandmother's place and I was sleeping and I woke up to my mom's screams of "run Babul run, just wake up and run" as I woke up and it was dark and I hurriedly tried to get on my feet still half asleep and feet went into cold water. 

Later on learnt that the river Kosi has changed it's course.  


At that time we didn't have any mobile camera. This is the picture I took from Wikipedia.￼


----------



## Baymule

Wow! I have never had to face anything like that! My sister lives close to a river and I have begged her to move, but she stays. In Hurricane Harvey a couple of years ago, she took 7 feet of water in her house. She, her husband and their dogs were rescued by boat from their 2nd story window. Her house suffered a lot of damage, she got it all redone, but she is not in good health, her husband died this year and I wish she would move to high ground.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Now floods are nothing new for Bihar, our State is the most flood-prone State of India.

 In 2008 though I was still a child, I was stuck on an embankment with other men. It was the single worst experience that I went through.  They used to drop some dry food and water bottles from the helicopter. But I remember being always hungry and always cold. My mother, my grandmother and my wee sister were rescued by helicopters. Women cannot live in the open, but I refused to abandon the Buffaloes so I stayed as did many other men.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Wow! I have never had to face anything like that! My sister lives close to a river and I have begged her to move, but she stays. In Hurricane Harvey a couple of years ago, she took 7 feet of water in her house. She, her husband and their dogs were rescued by boat from their 2nd story window. Her house suffered a lot of damage, she got it all redone, but she is not in good health, her husband died this year and I wish she would move to high ground.



To understand the true scale of destruction you will have to see the pictures. There's no high ground in Bihar. Embankments that are supposed to stop the rivers from overflowing are the only place where we can take refuge.


----------



## Bruce

scary!


----------



## Baymule

How deep do the floods get?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> How deep do the floods get?



The floods aren't usually deep at most places, but it really depends on how far you are from the river. Again in the flood you can't see things like ponds and check dams etc so navigating through a flood is a risky proposition. In 2008 I don't remember exactly, but around 150 people were washed away in a single incidence. People where not expecting the flood, the river had not flown through that path for more than a century.


----------



## Baymule

I lived in hurricane country most of my life. Hurricanes and tropical storms bring lots of rain and floods in low lying areas. Wind does lots of damage, plus tornadoes. Coastal areas get wiped off the face of the earth. The only damage we ever had was an ancient oak tree that fell on the house, smashing one end. Most of the time it was no electricity for weeks, grocery stores stripped of everything. That didn't bother me, we had a small generator that kept the freezer and refrigerator going. the rest i can deal with.

Staying in a flood to look after the buffalo is the mark of true love for the animals you care for. Well done. It had to be a miserable experience, staying wet and cold, for the love of the buffalo in your care, you stayed.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I lived in hurricane country most of my life. Hurricanes and tropical storms bring lots of rain and floods in low lying areas. Wind does lots of damage, plus tornadoes. Coastal areas get wiped off the face of the earth. The only damage we ever had was an ancient oak tree that fell on the house, smashing one end. Most of the time it was no electricity for weeks, grocery stores stripped of everything. That didn't bother me, we had a small generator that kept the freezer and refrigerator going. the rest i can deal with.
> 
> Staying in a flood to look after the buffalo is the mark of true love for the animals you care for. Well done. It had to be a miserable experience, staying wet and cold, for the love of the buffalo in your care, you stayed.




Our problem is that in North Bihar, you are never too far from a big perennial river. These rivers have two sources of water, the melting of ice in Nepalese Himalayas and heavy orthographic rainfall caused by High mountains blocking the South Western monsoon winds from moving North and forcing them to shed all their water on the Southern slope of the Himalayas. This causes causes the massive Rain shadow system resulting in floodplains in India and dry arid climate in Tibet and Mongolia. You don't have this effect in North America because both Rockies and the Appalachian mountains run North to South.

Yes, men usually stay back for the animals. My grandmother gave me a buffalo after the flood. You can see food packages being thrown from the Indian airforce helicopters on embankments for the few men who decided to stay. This picture is from 2020 Bihar floods.


----------



## Bruce

I'm glad they do the supply drops! I wonder if that would even happen here.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Moving on I have heard that mozzarella has become the most popular cheese in the States beating the cheddar by some 2 pounds. But is that really an authentic mozzarella?


----------



## River Buffaloes

I would also like to know that why does people only think about mozzarella cheese when they think about buffalo milk? You can substitute cow's milk with buffalo milk and every cheese will turn out to be more rich, more creamy and more white. 

Buffalo milk can also substitute cow's milk in the glass. It is more flavorful and rich and healthy. And what about other milk products that can be made from Buffalo milk like yoghurt, icecream, gelato, paneer, butter and ghee? They all turn out to be of a superior quality than one made from cows milk.


----------



## Bruce

What defines "authentic" mozzarella"? I know that Italy is very protective of its Parmigiana cheese name. If it isn't made THERE is isn't authentic. I understand that mozzarella is pretty easy for people to make at home, nothing special needed and no months or years of aging in caves  

I don't know anything about buffalo milk being made into cheese, as you know there are effectively no dairy buffaloes in the USA. In fact I would guess that very few people (like most of us until you started posting all the wonderful information) here in the USA know anything at all about the existence of river buffaloes. We know about American Bison/Buffalo. Some are "farmed" and there are places you can buy bison meat though I've never heard of anyone milking a bison.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Moving on I have heard that mozzarella has become the most popular cheese in the States beating the cheddar by some 2 pounds. But is that really an authentic mozzarella?


Probably not, my understanding is that mozzarella is supposed to be made from buffalo milk and I seriously doubt that much if any of the mozzarella in the States is made from buffalo milk. 

There are actually people that buy pasturized, homoginized, 2% milk (cow) in the store and make "mozzarella" at home with it and I am nearly certain that that is not "real mozzarella" even though it may still taste good. 




Bruce said:


> though I've never heard of anyone milking a bison.


Lol!! I would love to see someone try! Though, there are people that milk moose... so I guess it's not TOO far fetched that you could break a bison to milk, especially if you raised from a calf.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> What defines "authentic" mozzarella"? I know that Italy is very protective of its Parmigiana cheese name. If it isn't made THERE is isn't authentic. I understand that mozzarella is pretty easy for people to make at home, nothing special needed and no months or years of aging in caves
> 
> I don't know anything about buffalo milk being made into cheese, as you know there are effectively no dairy buffaloes in the USA. In fact I would guess that very few people (like most of us until you started posting all the wonderful information) here in the USA know anything at all about the existence of river buffaloes. We know about American Bison/Buffalo. Some are "farmed" and there are places you can buy bison meat though I've never heard of anyone milking a bison.



I wonder how a milking session of a bison would go. We have already started milking Mithun, the domesticated version of Gaur.

 I always wondered why the native Americans never domesticated bison or even turkeys. I think because of the low population density and abundance of food resources native Americans never felt the need to domesticate wild beasts.

 In the old world high population density and depleting number of animals drove the domestication process. Aurochs, Gaurs, Asian Wild Buffaloes and Eurasian Wild Boars are very dangerous animals, yet our ancestors took their chances. They must have been quite desperate to do so.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Lol!! I would love to see someone try! Though, there are people that milk moose... so I guess it's not TOO far fetched that you could break a bison to milk, especially if you raised from a




You beat me on that.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I always wondered why the native Americans never domesticated bison or even turkeys. I think because of the low population density and abundance of food resources native Americans never felt the need to domesticate wild beasts.


Interesting fact, because the Native Americans did not have domesticated cattle, they never evolved the gut bacteria to deal with lactose after infancy. Most are still lactose intolerant even after a few hundred years of exposure to it.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Interesting fact, because the Native Americans did not have domesticated cattle, they never evolved the gut bacteria to deal with lactose after infancy. Most are still lactose intolerant even after a few hundred years of exposure to it.



I thought only East Asians were lactose intolerant.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I thought only East Asians were lactose intolerant.


Nope, they don't handle milk or alcohol well because of the environment they have been in I guess since they wandered over from Africa. Europeans did them no favors by showing up and introducing them to alcohol.


----------



## MuldrowHomeFarm

River Buffaloes said:


> I am glad that you liked. There are actually quite a few people who keep buffaloes in the Americas. In Anglo America there are or were quite a few buffalo farms and companies and individuals who keep buffaloes. I know for sure that they were in British Columbia, Ontario, New Jersey, North Carolina, California and Florida. I think they are also kept in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Vermont and Texas, but I cannot be 100% certain.
> 
> Look up Ontario Water Buffalo company and backyard buffaloes on Facebook.


Yes, Buffalo are actually fairly common in Texas. We have several local farms outside of Houston!


----------



## MuldrowHomeFarm

River Buffaloes said:


> I am glad that you liked. There are actually quite a few people who keep buffaloes in the Americas. In Anglo America there are or were quite a few buffalo farms and companies and individuals who keep buffaloes. I know for sure that they were in British Columbia, Ontario, New Jersey, North Carolina, California and Florida. I think they are also kept in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Vermont and Texas, but I cannot be 100% certain.
> 
> Look up Ontario Water Buffalo company and backyard buffaloes on Facebook.


Yes, Buffalo are actually fairly common in Texas. We have several local farms outside of Houston


----------



## River Buffaloes

MuldrowHomeFarm said:


> Yes, Buffalo are actually fairly common in Texas. We have several local farms outside of Houston



Are they river buffaloes or swamp buffaloes?


----------



## MuldrowHomeFarm

I am not sure. If I had to guess, I would have to say River Buffalo. We only see them from a far. We drive by them but you can see them in the distance. One ranch has Zebras and Antelope, as well.


----------



## River Buffaloes

MuldrowHomeFarm said:


> I am not sure. If I had to guess, I would have to say River Buffalo. We only see them from a far. We drive by them but you can see them in the distance. One ranch has Zebras and Antelope, as well.



I wouldn't like to associate buffaloes with zebras and antelopes, because you see zebras and antelopes are not utility animals, they have no place on a farm. Buffaloes are purely a farm animal, best suited for small and backyard settings. You see in their native range from Philippines to Italy and Romania to Sri Lanka you don't find landholdings consisting of thousands of acres. Most of the farmers practice what is called subsistence agriculture. A type of agriculture whose primary goal is to satisfy the requirements of the family. 

I would argue that Buffaloes can contribute more to a homestead than a Llama or an Alpaca, because those distant relatives of camels are kept extensively in the Andes. Ever tried herding Llamas in the mountains of Peru? Nothing but dramas these Llamas.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Ever tried herding Llamas in the mountains of Peru? Nothing but dramas these Llamas.


LOL! I love that statement



River Buffaloes said:


> I wouldn't like to associate buffaloes with zebras and antelopes, because you see zebras and antelopes are not utility animals, they have no place on a farm.


Ranches in Texas aren't exactly "farms", they mostly don't grow things, they are sometimes thousands of acres that are fenced and they run stock on them. I seriously doubt the buffalo on those ranches are being used for any work, they are likely hunted rather than worked or milked. That is the same reason that the zebras and antelopes are there, to be hunted for money. 

There are people in America that will pay $10,000 or more for a chance to shoot an "exotic" animal so those ranches raise the exotics for that purpose.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> LOL! I love that statement
> 
> 
> Ranches in Texas aren't exactly "farms", they mostly don't grow things, they are sometimes thousands of acres that are fenced and they run stock on them. I seriously doubt the buffalo on those ranches are being used for any work, they are likely hunted rather than worked or milked. That is the same reason that the zebras and antelopes are there, to be hunted for money.
> 
> There are people in America that will pay $10,000 or more for a chance to shoot an "exotic" animal so those ranches raise the exotics for that purpose.




No wonder your homes are owned by banks.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> No wonder your homes are owned by banks.


Fair statement, but typically the people that spend that much money on a hunt are people that have 2-3 houses, several cars, a boat... 

I'm going to be debt free fairly soon. I will have my farm completely paid for in about 20 months and then the car in a year or 2 after that. I am 32 years old, and being debt free this young is very rare here. My parents still do not own their house, the house I grew up in.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Fair statement, but typically the people that spend that much money on a hunt are people that have 2-3 houses, several cars, a boat...
> 
> I'm going to be debt free fairly soon. I will have my farm completely paid for in about 20 months and then the car in a year or 2 after that. I am 32 years old, and being debt free this young is very rare here. My parents still do not own their house, the house I grew up in.



Why is it that it is always the hardworking people who have to struggle . Anyway I am glad that you will be debt free soon. I think one reason for being indebted is easy credit. It is very complicated for a common man to get a loan in India, perhaps that's why the debt problem is not as large. Also borrowing money is seen as something inherently bad and the money lenders are seen as evil. Perhaps that's why even though unemployment rate is more than 10% and GDP is -9% still so few people (I don't know any) are in danger of getting kicked out of their homes. 

Being out of debt is such a relief. I hope you build up a nice saving and invest it wisely.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Why is it that it is always the hardworking people who have to struggle . Anyway I am glad that you will be debt free soon. I think one reason for being indebted is easy credit. It is very complicated for a common man to get a loan in India, perhaps that's why the debt problem is not as large. Also borrowing money is seen as something inherently bad and the money lenders are seen as evil. Perhaps that's why even though unemployment rate is more than 10% and GDP is -9% still so few people (I don't know any) are in danger of getting kicked out of their homes.
> 
> Being out of debt is such a relief. I hope you build up a nice saving and invest it wisely.


Yes, very easy credit. I was getting offers for pre-approved credit cards when I was around 11-12 years old. I do have a credit card and use it a lot, but I keep it paid off. I only use it because if someone steals the information and spends my money, the bank will not charge me for things I did not buy and they will either just pay it, or they will investigate who did it and go after them for the money. 

Where I live, a house with a small piece of land like the one my parents have (1,000 square foot house on 3/4 of an acre) will sell from $100,000-150,000. My farm is just land, no house and it is a little over 11 acres for $50,000. A new car is $30,000 or so and mine cost that used. 

The company I work for has starting pay of around $10 an hour or $400 per week without overtime. At that pay rate, that small $100,000 house would take 250 weeks or 5 years to pay off IF you did NOT spend a penny on anything else including taxes. 

A good job requires education. My husband has around $50,000 in debt just from his college classes last time he said how much he owed. I was lucky and my mom does not work and my dad did not make enough money to keep me from getting scholarships through the local community college so my education was almost free. My mom got a part time job and my dad got a raise and because of that I no longer qualified for the scholarships for the last semester or so that I was going to college but we were able to pay that amount to finish my degree.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Yes, very easy credit. I was getting offers for pre-approved credit cards when I was around 11-12 years old. I do have a credit card and use it a lot, but I keep it paid off. I only use it because if someone steals the information and spends my money, the bank will not charge me for things I did not buy and they will either just pay it, or they will investigate who did it and go after them for the money.
> 
> Where I live, a house with a small piece of land like the one my parents have (1,000 square foot house on 3/4 of an acre) will sell from $100,000-150,000. My farm is just land, no house and it is a little over 11 acres for $50,000. A new car is $30,000 or so and mine cost that used.
> 
> The company I work for has starting pay of around $10 an hour or $400 per week without overtime. At that pay rate, that small $100,000 house would take 250 weeks or 5 years to pay off IF you did NOT spend a penny on anything else including taxes.
> 
> A good job requires education. My husband has around $50,000 in debt just from his college classes last time he said how much he owed. I was lucky and my mom does not work and my dad did not make enough money to keep me from getting scholarships through the local community college so my education was almost free. My mom got a part time job and my dad got a raise and because of that I no longer qualified for the scholarships for the last semester or so that I was going to college but we were able to pay that amount to finish my degree.




I think 11 acres is plenty land for reliable subsistence agriculture practice in a place like Commonwealth of Virginia. I hope you tread very carefully while investing in animals and carve out a part of land for growing food crops like wheat, a vegetable garden and also a plot where you can grow grain for animals like millets, corn, oat, BOSS, flax etc.

 Did you list the animals you have in BYH official poll?


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I think 11 acres is plenty land for reliable subsistence agriculture practice in a place like Commonwealth of Virginia. I hope you tread very carefully while investing in animals and carve out a part of land for growing food crops like wheat, a vegetable garden and also a plot where you can grow grain for animals like millets, corn, oat, BOSS, flax etc.
> 
> Did you list the animals you have in BYH official poll?


One thing you probably didn't notice when researching Virginia and my area in particular is that it is all mountain...

Here is an image of my farm





The red lines show the property lines




Here are the elevation marks in fairly random places showing how it is all hill. This is also 0.15 miles from the very top point to the one at the bottom left, this is an 11% slope




I have 3 horses out there now, still working on getting all of the fencing up. Once I have the fencing up I will probably be getting some Jacob Sheep for the wool and to help graze down some of the weeds the horses don't eat.

I do have a garden area over in that shadowy area right above the marker at the bottom left and plan to make a much bigger one over there between that bottom left area and that red and white looking building to it's right.

I would also like to get chickens at some point and maybe muscovy ducks, but I need all of the fencing up before I can add any animals out there.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> One thing you probably didn't notice when researching Virginia and my area in particular is that it is all mountain...
> 
> Here is an image of my farm
> View attachment 78113
> 
> The red lines show the property lines
> View attachment 78114
> 
> Here are the elevation marks in fairly random places showing how it is all hill. This is also 0.15 miles from the very top point to the one at the bottom left, this is an 11% slope
> View attachment 78116
> 
> I have 3 horses out there now, still working on getting all of the fencing up. Once I have the fencing up I will probably be getting some Jacob Sheep for the wool and to help graze down some of the weeds the horses don't eat.
> 
> I do have a garden area over in that shadowy area right above the marker at the bottom left and plan to make a much bigger one over there between that bottom left area and that red and white looking building to it's right.
> 
> I would also like to get chickens at some point and maybe muscovy ducks, but I need all of the fencing up before I can add any animals out there.




LoL I didn't do any research on Virginia. I was talking about the climate of Virginia being suitable and conducive to agriculture. I know that the Western part of the Commonwealth, bordering West Virginia is rather hilly. I graduated with Geography honours from University, that's how I knew.

I don't consider hilly areas particularly bad for agriculture, unless ofcourse you are situated on it's rain shadow area. The Appalachians are an example of old fold mountains. It means that the geological activities that constructed mountain range has stopped. It also means Appalachians are geologically stable, it means you are not going to experience earthquakes, geysers or volcanic activities and the land is going to continue being more and more flat. 

You may think it is a long term process, which honestly it is, but forces that destroy a mountain work faster than those that create, because forces of erosion are consistent. They include rain, snow, wind, plants and animals and most importantly people. 

Old fold mountains are suitable for human habitation and agriculture. The soil generally rich in minerals and the land though uneven is not nearly as treacherous as New fold mountains, you know the likes of Himalayas, Andes and Rockies and people do farm on New fold mountains as well.  Also low laying flatlands and river valleys are not always sunshine and lollypopski as you might imagine. Just look at my situation. 

Some of the world's largest alluvial fans are found on the Indo-Gangetic plains along the Himalayan front. Infact river Kosi forms largest alluvial fan in the world. Alluvial fans are very fertile and very suitable to work on, but they are also very flood-prone. Infact that fertile soil is the result of the floods. I showed you the pictures of the flood. Kosi river floods almost every monsoon, unless there is a particularly bad drought.

Honestly your property looks like a fine piece of land to me. If you selected it and decided to buy it, you should be well proud of yourself.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> LoL I didn't do any research on Virginia. I was talking about the climate of Virginia being suitable and conducive to agriculture. I know that the Western part of the Commonwealth, bordering West Virginia is rather hilly. I graduated with Geography honours from University, that's how I knew.
> 
> I don't consider hilly areas particularly bad for agriculture, unless ofcourse you are situated on it's rain shadow area. The Appalachians are an example of old fold mountains. It means that the geological activities that constructed mountain range has stopped. It also means Appalachians are geologically stable, it means you are not going to experience earthquakes, geysers or volcanic activities and the land is going to continue being more and more flat.
> 
> You may think it is a long term process, which honestly it is, but forces that destroy a mountain work faster than those that create, because forces of erosion are consistent. They include rain, snow, wind, plants and animals and most importantly people.
> 
> Old fold mountains are suitable for human habitation and agriculture. The soil generally rich in minerals and the land though uneven is not nearly as treacherous as New fold mountains, you know the likes of Himalayas, Andes and Rockies and people do farm on New fold mountains as well.  Also low laying flatlands and river valleys are not always sunshine and lollypopski as you might imagine. Just look at my situation.
> 
> Some of the world's largest alluvial fans are found on the Indo-Gangetic plains along the Himalayan front. Infact river Kosi forms largest alluvial fan in the world. Alluvial fans are very fertile and very suitable to work on, but they are also very flood-prone. Infact that fertile soil is the result of the floods. I showed you the pictures of the flood. Kosi river floods almost every monsoon, unless there is a particularly bad drought.
> 
> Honestly your property looks like a fine piece of land to me. If you selected it and decided to buy it, you should be well proud of yourself.


For not researching you have quite the impressive understanding of this little pocket of the world. Where I am is actually pretty much in a bowl with mountain ranges all the way around. We DO actually get earthquakes, but they are fairly mild and not super often. We also get the occasional tornado but they typically follow the major roads as they don't like hills so they hit the roads and just kind of bounce back and forth across the road as they travel. 

Some of those spots on my farm are actually too steep to even take the tractor on, which is part of why I want the sheep. The horses don't like those steep places so they get overgrown, but I think I can pen the sheep into a fairly small area at a time and let them graze it all the way down and kill what they can, then re-seed with grass seed and move the sheep to a different place. After a few times of doing that they should have killed out most of the non-grass stuff. I would go behind them and finish cleaning up anything they leave in each patch, but at least I wouldn't have to strip it ALL down to the ground by hand like I would have to without the sheep.


----------



## Bruce

Kusanar said:


> There are actually people that buy pasturized, homoginized, 2% milk (cow) in the store and make "mozzarella" at home with it and I am nearly certain that that is not "real mozzarella" even though it may still taste good.


More than likely it tastes good to those of us who are accustomed to low fat cow milk mozzarella. I suspect River Buffaloes would taste it and have a different opinion. Kind of like I grew up on Log Cabin "maple syrup", then I moved to Vermont after college. If one has never had real maple syrup made from nothing but the sap of maple trees they have NO idea what maple syrup tastes like. 



River Buffaloes said:


> I thought only East Asians were lactose intolerant.


Nope. DW's mother is 100% Swiss (her parents individually immigrated from Switzerland) her father is English (and environs I suspect) though generations in the USA. DW is lactose intolerant. 



Kusanar said:


> Europeans did them no favors by showing up and introducing them to alcohol.


And smallpox and a lot of other things (like dare I say Europeans).



River Buffaloes said:


> I would argue that Buffaloes can contribute more to a homestead than a Llama or an Alpaca, because those distant relatives of camels are kept extensively in the Andes. Ever tried herding Llamas in the mountains of Peru? Nothing but dramas these Llamas.


I suppose it depends in the "product" one wants. Alpacas are raised for their fiber. llamas for fiber, meat and pack animals. I don't guess one could make a very nice pair of socks from a river buffalo 



Kusanar said:


> several cars, a boat...


And their boat may be larger than the average home in the USA.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> For not researching you have quite the impressive understanding of this little pocket of the world. Where I am is actually pretty much in a bowl with mountain ranges all the way around. We DO actually get earthquakes, but they are fairly mild and not super often. We also get the occasional tornado but they typically follow the major roads as they don't like hills so they hit the roads and just kind of bounce back and forth across the road as they travel.
> 
> Some of those spots on my farm are actually too steep to even take the tractor on, which is part of why I want the sheep. The horses don't like those steep places so they get overgrown, but I think I can pen the sheep into a fairly small area at a time and let them graze it all the way down and kill what they can, then re-seed with grass seed and move the sheep to a different place. After a few times of doing that they should have killed out most of the non-grass stuff. I would go behind them and finish cleaning up anything they leave in each patch, but at least I wouldn't have to strip it ALL down to the ground by hand like I would have to without the sheep.




You see, I didn't know you get earthquakes in Virginia. Being so close to the Himalayas we get some bad earthquakes, I mean 7+ ones.

 I did note that the land is not all that flat the first time I saw the pics. We have a saying "the land is never wrong, the farmer is wrong". You are correct large animals like horses tend to avoid uneven grounds for obvious reasons. You may also have noted that mountain breeds tend to be smaller than those of the plains.

 I have zero experience with sheep as may have noticed that my area is not particularly suitable for sheep rearing. Keeping sheep is also a caste based occupation, the caste who herd sheep is nomadic, they come to our area during summer and quickly leave this region before the onset of monsoon. They move around on foot with hundreds if not thousands of sheep in each herd.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> You see, I didn't know you get earthquakes in Virginia. Being so close to the Himalayas we get some bad earthquakes, I mean 7+ ones.
> 
> I did note that the land is not all that flat the first time I saw the pics. We have a saying "the land is never wrong, the farmer is wrong". You are correct large animals like horses tend to avoid uneven grounds for obvious reasons. You may also have noted that mountain breeds tend to be smaller than those of the plains.
> 
> I have zero experience with sheep as may have noticed that my area is not particularly suitable for sheep rearing. Keeping sheep is also a caste based occupation, the caste who herd sheep is nomadic, they come to our area during summer and quickly leave this region before the onset of monsoon. They move around on foot with hundreds if not thousands of sheep in each herd.


The sheep I want are Jacob Sheep which are a primitive breed (meaning that they are still built very much like a wild sheep without humans messing them up too much) with 2-6 horns. They are also more like goats in that they browse more than graze (they eat bushes and stuff as much if not more than grass). I'm just looking for 3 or so females and a male to start with. In my area you can run I think 6 sheep to an acre and need 2 acres for each horse so my 3 horses take 6 acres and then I have up to 5 acres for the sheep (or up to 30 sheep max). 

My horses do pretty good on the hilly land they are on, but part of the land is something like 4 feet up over a span of about 2 feet, so they don't go on that part but I think the sheep will if they are fenced over there.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> The sheep I want are Jacob Sheep which are a primitive breed (meaning that they are still built very much like a wild sheep without humans messing them up too much) with 2-6 horns. They are also more like goats in that they browse more than graze (they eat bushes and stuff as much if not more than grass). I'm just looking for 3 or so females and a male to start with. In my area you can run I think 6 sheep to an acre and need 2 acres for each horse so my 3 horses take 6 acres and then I have up to 5 acres for the sheep (or up to 30 sheep max).
> 
> My horses do pretty good on the hilly land they are on, but part of the land is something like 4 feet up over a span of about 2 feet, so they don't go on that part but I think the sheep will if they are fenced over there.



So I looked up the Jakob sheep and for someone who has never seen an animal with more than two horns it was truly a bizzare thing to see. They look like they can provide some meat.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> So I looked up the Jakob sheep and for someone who has never seen an animal with more than two horns it was truly a bizzare thing to see. They look like they can provide some meat.


They are freaky looking things (part of why I like them lol), they are sometimes used for meat, but they aren't a breed that was developed for meat. The meat breeds will hit over 100 lbs at 4 months old, a mature Jacob Sheep isn't much more than 100 lbs. So, they can be butchered for meat, but they aren't as efficient as the meat breeds. But, they give birth easier than a lot of the meat breeds because of the more natural slope to the hind end.

I may actually milk mine some, not as a full on dairy breed, but, if they are in milk I may steal a cup or 2 here and there for fresh drinking milk.


----------



## Baymule

@Kusanar you can build swales on your slopes to catch rain run off and retain the rain for your pastures. We are on a slope too, The front of our property to the house drops 10 feet, then goes to a gulley that cuts behind the horse barn, and drops even further.  We had to haul in dirt to level up the horse barn. We have several swales on our property that was built in the 1930's by the CCC, Civilian Conservation Corps. There are swales all around here, built by the CCC. plus they planted trees and improved the lands. Anyway, swales do a lot to help the land. We have made swales behind the horse barn with wood chips that were the result of having clearing done by a forestry mulcher. I sowed grass seed in early spring and have a decent stand now. I am letting one horse graze it a few hours a day for now. 

It looks like you have good grass on your land, you can improve it by sowing clover. Clover will fix nitrogen in the root nodules, making it available to the other grasses. If you graze the sheep on clovers, provide baking soda free choice to keep them from bloating and limit their grazing at first to give them time to adjust to it. I also provide dolomite lime to my sheep, the magnesium in it helps to prevent grass tetany.


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> @Kusanar you can build swales on your slopes to catch rain run off and retain the rain for your pastures. We are on a slope too, The front of our property to the house drops 10 feet, then goes to a gulley that cuts behind the horse barn, and drops even further.  We had to haul in dirt to level up the horse barn. We have several swales on our property that was built in the 1930's by the CCC, Civilian Conservation Corps. There are swales all around here, built by the CCC. plus they planted trees and improved the lands. Anyway, swales do a lot to help the land. We have made swales behind the horse barn with wood chips that were the result of having clearing done by a forestry mulcher. I sowed grass seed in early spring and have a decent stand now. I am letting one horse graze it a few hours a day for now.
> 
> It looks like you have good grass on your land, you can improve it by sowing clover. Clover will fix nitrogen in the root nodules, making it available to the other grasses. If you graze the sheep on clovers, provide baking soda free choice to keep them from bloating and limit their grazing at first to give them time to adjust to it. I also provide dolomite lime to my sheep, the magnesium in it helps to prevent grass tetany.


It's actually funny, water is one thing my farm does not lack. Unless you are at the very top of the hill, you tend to hit water when digging post holes. There is a spring down in the bottom that we dug a pond below and it filled in about 6 months, it's about 10 feet deep in the middle and a good 20-30 feet across if not bigger (I'm not good at estimating distances) it is actually out of it's banks to the point that it has crossed a fence line and is now almost as big on the neighbors side as it is on ours (his cows love being able to go wallow on hot days) and it is actually about 2 feet deep where it crosses the fence... 

It's also freaky, before we moved the horses, we had 2 of them (same ones I have now) in a paddock with a 100 gallon water tub, I filled the tub every other day and it was nearly empty when I filled it. Now, I have those same 2 plus a mini with 2 100 gallon tubs and a 50 (that they just play in, they won't drink out of that one) and I fill the water tubs every 2 weeks or so. I assume because the grass has so much water in it that they don't need to drink much.


----------



## Baymule

Swales also help to stop erosion, which is the major reason they were built all over the place. In the early 1930's erosion was a problem, as most people at that time did not understand how to stop it. 

I wish I had grass like yours! One day........ LOL


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> Swales also help to stop erosion, which is the major reason they were built all over the place. In the early 1930's erosion was a problem, as most people at that time did not understand how to stop it.
> 
> I wish I had grass like yours! One day........ LOL


I'll have to go get some pictures of the place from ground level. One good thing about horses is that they don't like walking straight down steep hills so they kind of tack back and forth across it and gradually create terraces out of their walking paths. There is only one area that they have muddied up enough that it could errode and that's the steep hill going down to the water tubs but once the rest of the fencing is up, the tanks will be moved to a better place and put on gravel to keep the mud around them down. 

One of my horses came off the hill with no tail the other day, so my dad and I were walking the fences seeing if we could figure out where he had left it (never did find it) and yes, the field is weedy and the weeds are really high, but, the grass is also knee high over a patch that is probably around an acre, the horses simply haven't felt like walking over there to eat it yet because it's the furthest point from the water, so they will have that to eat still before I have to start feeding hay at all. We also have a lot of cool season grass that grows slowly all winter so they graze all but about a month of winter (with hay supplimentation of course) so I'm only feeding 6-8 regular 40-50 lb square bales a week to 2 standard horses and a mini, they get more if it's going to be super cold just because I want to make sure they have enough to ferment and keep warm, but if it's in the 40's or warmer they are perfectly content. This year they will actually have shelter which they didn't have the last 2 winters so they will stay warm easier.


----------



## Bruce

No tail????


----------



## Baymule

Yeah, no tail??


----------



## Finnie

Maybe she means a bald tail?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> It's actually funny, water is one thing my farm does not lack. Unless you are at the very top of the hill, you tend to hit water when digging post holes. There is a spring down in the bottom that we dug a pond below and it filled in about 6 months, it's about 10 feet deep in the middle and a good 20-30 feet across if not bigger (I'm not good at estimating distances) it is actually out of it's banks to the point that it has crossed a fence line and is now almost as big on the neighbors side as it is on ours (his cows love being able to go wallow on hot days) and it is actually about 2 feet deep where it crosses the fence...
> 
> It's also freaky, before we moved the horses, we had 2 of them (same ones I have now) in a paddock with a 100 gallon water tub, I filled the tub every other day and it was nearly empty when I filled it. Now, I have those same 2 plus a mini with 2 100 gallon tubs and a 50 (that they just play in, they won't drink out of that one) and I fill the water tubs every 2 weeks or so. I assume because the grass has so much water in it that they don't need to drink much.



Under those circumstances I think a small herd of Buffaloes would be a great addition to your homestead.


----------



## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> No tail????





Baymule said:


> Yeah, no tail??





Finnie said:


> Maybe she means a bald tail?


Lol yeah, he still has all of the meaty bits, but the hair is mostly gone. My best guess right now is that he laid down, the other horse stood on it, and he ripped it out when he stood up. In which case it could be anywhere in the field. He's got some draft blood so the stubby little tail makes his drafty (lol, in 2 ways now I guess!) butt look bigger.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Under those circumstances I think a small herd of Buffaloes would be a great addition to your homestead.


I would never get them out of the pond! Considering how much time the neighbors angus spend in there I'm sure a buffalo would just live in the water.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> I would never get them out of the pond! Considering how much time the neighbors angus spend in there I'm sure a buffalo would just live in the water.



Don't worry, buffaloes love treats and scratches as much as they like bathing.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Interestingly I have noted that Buffaloes don't fight with cows. If buffaloes are raised with cows they may stick with them, because they tend to bond with every animal on the farm, but they always avoid fighting with cows, if a cow challenges a buffalo for something, the Buffaloes will just move out of the way. I find it very interesting, because they are more powerful than cows and they will fight with other buffaloes.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Interestingly I have noted that Buffaloes don't fight with cows. If buffaloes are raised with cows they may stick them, because they tend to bond with every animal on the farm, but they always avoid fighting with cows, if a cow challenges a buffalo for something, the Buffaloes will just move out of the way. I find very interesting, because they are more powerful than cows and they will fight with other buffaloes.


Interesting. I have a horse that is a complete wimp and has to live next door because my other horses beat him up. He chases the bull away from feed and I bet that bull weighs more than the horse does.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Interesting. I have a horse that is a complete wimp and has to live next door because my other horses beat him up. He chases the bull away from feed and I bet that bull weighs more than the horse does.



Each buffalo comes with its own personality, some will quarrel with every strange buffalo, some like to make friends with new editions in the herd, some will mind their own business, but all of them are wimps when they are confronted with cattle. 

If you have a herd of cattle and you decide to introduce a buffalo calf, they will follow the cows everywhere, but it will never fight with them. There are many people who keep cows and buffaloes together. Keeping them is not a problem, but you will have to see that the Buffaloes are not getting bullied by the cows.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Each buffalo comes with its own personality, some will quarrel with every strange buffalo, some like to make friends with new editions in the herd, some will mind their own business, but all of them are wimps when they are confronted with cattle.
> 
> If you have a herd of cattle and you decide to introduce a buffalo calf, they will follow the cows everywhere, but it will never fight with them. There are many people who keep cows and buffaloes together. Keeping them is not a problem, but you will have to see that the Buffaloes are not getting bullied by the cows.


Any idea how they interact with horses? If they back down to horses the same way they back down to cows they probably wouldn't do well at my place. If something backs down too much it gets attacked in my herd.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Any idea how they interact with horses? If they back down to horses the same way they back down to cows they probably wouldn't do well at my place. If something backs down too much it gets attacked in my herd.



Oh no, buffaloes are like horses in the sense that they have a strong social order and they defend each others back. If you watch videos of Water Buffaloes, you will note that how close they stay to their herd, almost touching eachother. When grazing they don't tend to spread out evenly on the plot, they stay close always talking softly to eachother.

 They are not very cooperative with horses and they are not very cooperative with herding dogs. In Latin America where buffaloes are gaining popularity as well as in their native tracts they are herded by herders on foot. This is because buffaloes are sensitive animals, mistreating them can be counterproductive. One of the cruelest thing you can do to a buffalo is to send herding dogs behind them.

 Buffaloes are also smarter than the cattle, they are good learners and know how to avoid trouble. Horses are also very smart, I am sure they will never get in the midst of a buffalo herd. I have seen buffaloes and horses being kept together. Most people who are fond of horses keep at least one milking buffalo for the horse. I have seen them mostly ignoring eachother. However they are both of inquisitive nature, if they are unaccustomed to eachother they may interact a bit.


----------



## Bruce

Kusanar said:


> butt look bigger


Is that why our butts look big, no tail?


----------



## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> Is that why our butts look big, no tail?


You may be on to something there...


----------



## River Buffaloes

So here is another wonderful YouTube video about a long Island couple who decided to go farming and they set-up their farm in New Jersey, believe it or not. They started to go with Water Buffaloes. They are Brian and Courtney, an electrician and a school teacher. the name of their farm is Riverine Ranch. 

The purpose of sharing this video is to show what kind of cheeses are traditionally made from buffalo milk in Middle East, Greece and Italy where Buffaloes are traditionally kept.  Buffalo milk is used to make spicy Labneh cheese, ricotta and camembert type cheeses. I guess you can make these cheeses from cow's milk too, but buffalo milk is more suitable for these cheeses because of it's creaminess.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Buffalo milk is used to make spicy Labneh cheese, ricotta and camembert type cheeses. I guess you can make these cheeses from cow's milk too, but buffalo milk is more suitable for these cheeses because of it's creaminess.


My understanding is that the best mozzarella is made from Buffalo milk as well.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> My understanding is that the best mozzarella is made from Buffalo milk as well.



Yes, that is absolutely true, but buffaloes are so much more than mozzarella. Buffalo milk is used to make many different types of cheeses, it is very suitable, more suitable than cow's milk for making paneer, ghee, yoghurt, chai or even drinking. It is much more nutritious and flavorful than cow's milk. It is also very suitable if you want to avoid diabetes or heart ailments. Buffalo milk contains significantly less cholesterol than cow's milk. It is also very good for healthy bones because it contains more calcium and phosphorus than cow's milk.


----------



## Bruce

The buffalo Camembert looks to be more dense than what we get here, I THINK it is sheep or goat, and is quite soft like brie.

Yep, they are from "New Yalk" alright


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> The buffalo Camembert looks to be more dense than what we get here, I THINK it is sheep or goat, and is quite soft like brie.
> 
> Yep, they are from "New Yalk" alright



Yes, perhaps because Buffalo milk is thicker than sheep or goats milk. Buffalo milk is also the best for making gelato. 

Not all New Yorker's go to Vermont, some go to New Jersey as strange as it may sound.


----------



## Bruce

They have a very good reason to have their farm where it is in Jersey. It is close enough to the BIG MONEY in New York City to sell their products. Not near that kind of money up here.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> They have a very good reason to have their farm where it is in Jersey. It is close enough to the BIG MONEY in New York City to sell their products. Not near that kind of money up here.




Now that you mention it, it sounds logical. I thought they decided to start their farm in New Jersey, because it was in their vicinity. I always viewed New York as a true American no nonsense money minded working class city and people from West coast cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco as a group which is more inclined to spend money on luxuries like gourmet cheeses, ice-creams and latest fashion and stuff like that. Since I am not from the States, I cannot know more than you do.

I must mention however that first buffalo dairy operations in the United States didn't start near big cities, it started in the South. Here is a  3 minutes video of a former cattle farmer who used to raise Angus cattle, after he came to know about buffaloes he bought a few in 1980, he eventually liked them so much that he started keeping buffaloes exclusively since 1991. He is from Arkansas.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I always viewed New York as a true American no nonsense money minded working class city and people from West coast cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco as a group which is more inclined to spend money on luxuries like gourmet cheeses, ice-creams and latest fashion and stuff like that.


Well, New York is complicated. It has a lot of beautiful farmland, it has the "stackable slums" where poor people live in skyscrapers, and it has the big city high life with the expensive clothes and food and such.

Same way California has Hollywood, deserts, and redwood forests.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Well, New York is complicated. It has a lot of beautiful farmland, it has the "stackable slums" where poor people live in skyscrapers, and it has the big city high life with the expensive clothes and food and such.
> 
> Same way California has Hollywood, deserts, and redwood forests.



Things are never straightforward, but I sure hope you watch that little video and also explain what is FFF.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Things are never straightforward, but I sure hope you watch that little video and also explain what is FFF.


Popped it into my watch later que. Will try to watch tonight. 

BTW, I don't think I would call what the redhead in the earlier video "riding" a buffalo... lol More like sitting on one while it ignored her existence. lol


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Popped it into my watch later que. Will try to watch tonight.
> 
> BTW, I don't think I would call what the redhead in the earlier video "riding" a buffalo... lol More like sitting on one while it ignored her existence. lol



Perhaps that buffalo thought that she was better off chewing her cud in the mudhole on a hot afternoon. Buffaloes are calm, but rather intelligent animals, they will do what they think is right thing to do, not necessarily what you tell them to do. 

We milk our buffaloes twice a day on a milk sharing plan. That is we let the calves nurse sufficiently before milking. If we try to milk our buffalo again or if the calf tries to nurse again after say 30 minutes or an hour or two, they will outright refuse. Don't even think about it.


----------



## River Buffaloes

When compared to most other forms of livestock, water buffaloes herds are more hierarchical in nature. This is not an oppressive hierarchy that we see in animals like wolves or monkeys etc. It's not based on the resources, it's based around leadership and it isn't hereditary. In every herd there's a mature female with a dominant personality that always leads the herd. She is called 'the leader', there's a second in command as well. The leader leads the herd other females and their calves follow with juvenile females staying at the back of the herd. In a well established herd there's never a fight for supremacy. If you remove the leader from the herd, the second most dominant female will automatically assume command.

Adult males are persona non Grata in the herd, they are just guests who only stay for few hours. Female buffaloes only like males around them when they are in estrous. Males are kept alone or in small bachelor herds. It's a very bad idea to keep a sub adult or adult males in Buffalo herds. It will cause stress in the animals.

If you put a buffalo herd in a pasture, they will not spread out evenly with one going in this corner and another going in that like cattle. They will always go where their leader decides to go.

I am telling this because people who keep buffaloes use it to their own advantage. They name the leaders and they are treated like pets. If you can get the leader to come when you call, you can get the whole herd where ever you want without ever having to herd them from behind.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> When compared to most other forms of livestock, water buffaloes herds are more hierarchical in nature. This is not an oppressive hierarchy that we see in animals like wolves or monkeys etc. It's not based on the resources, it's based around leadership and it's hereditary. In every herd there's a mature female with a dominant personality that always leads the herd. She is called 'the leader', there's a second in command as well. The leader leads the herd other females and their calves follow with juvenile females staying at the back of the herd. In a well established herd there's never a fight for supremacy. If you remove the leader from the herd, the second most dominant female will automatically assume command.


Horses do this to a degree but it isn't hereditary. 

In a well established herd, there is some fighting for supremacy but it is only between animals of similar rank. So, the #1 will not fight with or pick on the #5 but #1 and #2 have slight disputes as do #2 and #3 and so on. 

In a wild herd, the lead horse is actually a female, she determines where the herd goes, what they do, and if a youngster steps out of line, she disciplines them by driving them from the herd and not letting them back in until they express that they are her subordinate. The males do stay with the herd year round, but only 1 mature male and young males are with the herd, once the young males are 1.5 to 2 years old and they start showing interest in the females they are driven out to form bachelor herds where they grow and play fight to get the strength and skills needed to be able to supplant the mature stallion in a herd or to steal some females from him to start a new herd. 

Basically, the females run the show, the males are only really there for breeding and to protect the girls.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Things are never straightforward, but I sure hope you watch that little video and also explain what is FFF.


Ok, watched it. It is actually FFA. Stands for Future Farmers of America. I was never in it, so fuzzy on details but basically it is kids that are in an after school organization that teaches them about farming. I believe that they raise animals while tracking everything and seeing the profits and losses, learn to handle animals, learn about agriculture, etc.


----------



## Baymule

I was in FFA in High School. It was boys only, so when me and my best friend joined and took the classes, there was quite a to-do over it. The newspaper did a story on us. I raised a hog, got reserve grand champion and my friend raised a steer.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> I always viewed New York as a true American no nonsense money minded working class city and people from West coast cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco as a group which is more inclined to spend money on luxuries like gourmet cheeses, ice-creams and latest fashion and stuff like that.


Um, no 
All of those big cities are a mix of big money down to outright poverty. Everything from the "1%ers" to living in subsidized buildings and barely hanging on.

Interesting video on the first river buffalo ranch in the USA, thanks.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Horses do this to a degree but it isn't hereditary.
> 
> In a well established herd, there is some fighting for supremacy but it is only between animals of similar rank. So, the #1 will not fight with or pick on the #5 but #1 and #2 have slight disputes as do #2 and #3 and so on.
> 
> In a wild herd, the lead horse is actually a female, she determines where the herd goes, what they do, and if a youngster steps out of line, she disciplines them by driving them from the herd and not letting them back in until they express that they are her subordinate. The males do stay with the herd year round, but only 1 mature male and young males are with the herd, once the young males are 1.5 to 2 years old and they start showing interest in the females they are driven out to form bachelor herds where they grow and play fight to get the strength and skills needed to be able to supplant the mature stallion in a herd or to steal some females from him to start a new herd.
> 
> Basically, the females run the show, the males are only really there for breeding and to protect the girls.



Oh, I made a mistake there. I meant it isn't hereditary. I corrected it, I believe I was sleepy.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Ok, watched it. It is actually FFA. Stands for Future Farmers of America. I was never in it, so fuzzy on details but basically it is kids that are in an after school organization that teaches them about farming. I believe that they raise animals while tracking everything and seeing the profits and losses, learn to handle animals, learn about agriculture, etc.





Baymule said:


> I was in FFA in High School. It was boys only, so when me and my best friend joined and took the classes, there was quite a to-do over it. The newspaper did a story on us. I raised a hog, got reserve grand champion and my friend raised a steer.




Thanks @Kusanar for explaining the FFA. @Baymule I bet you enjoyed, projects with friends as teenagers are always fun.


----------



## Baymule

We did have fun. The boys thought we would get squeamish when castrating hogs, they threw the testicles at us. We picked them up and threw them back. LOL LOL


----------



## Kusanar

Baymule said:


> We did have fun. The boys thought we would get squeamish when castrating hogs, they threw the testicles at us. We picked them up and threw them back. LOL LOL


Lol, you should be less squeamish about that... no phantom pains... lol


----------



## River Buffaloes

Hey guys, I am back. I hope and pray that you guys are doing well.

 I left my job in Delhi and came back to my village once again. I was alone there and the situation in that city was tragic. It was like Titanic going down strapped to Lusitania. What's going on here is a humanitarian catastrophe.


----------



## Baymule

I am so glad you are back with us! I have often wondered about you and how you were doing. I liked the above post because I’m happy to hear from you. I also wanted to post a sad face because of what is happening in your country. Please stay safe. I will pray for you and your family.

India is on the news now and it is heartbreaking. Please keep posting and stay in touch with us.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I am so glad you are back with us! I have often wondered about you and how you were doing. I liked the above post because I’m happy to hear from you. I also wanted to post a sad face because of what is happening in your country. Please stay safe. I will pray for you and your family.
> 
> India is on the news now and it is heartbreaking. Please keep posting and stay in touch with us.




Thank you so much. You are so kind. The situation is hopeless here. Healthcare system has collapsed and our politicians have failed us. If I live for a thousand years, I can never forget what I have seen. It's unbelievable. The greed, the suffering, the pain, the sacrifice, helplessness and selfishness I have seen in past two three weeks a man cannot express in words.


----------



## Baymule

I have no words but to grieve with you.


----------



## Bruce

The Covid news from India is tragic. Most everyone in India must be suffering from PTSD by now. I'm glad you are safe and further from the danger.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> The Covid news from India is tragic. Most everyone in India must be suffering from PTSD by now. I'm glad you are safe and further from the danger.


Thank you. We hope to be safe, still we are not all that far from the danger. The virus seems to be omnipresent. People are dying in the village too.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Moving on to Water Buffaloes. I recently joined a few Water Buffalo groups and liked some pages. They are mostly centered around US and Canada. I hope you will like them too. You will see that Water Buffaloes are not all that rare in the States anymore.

*FACEBOOK PAGES*


1. Erin's Acres Farm (CO)

2. Rocking TT Bar (CO)

3. Sarah Bella Buffalo Dairy, LLC 

4. Fading D. Farm 

5. Coleman Meadows Farm (B.C. Canada) 

6. Ontario Water Buffalo Company (ON Canada)


*FACEBOOK GROUPS*

1. Water Buffalo Enthusiasts

2. Water Buffalo Talks 

3. Water Buffaloes as draught animals, dairy animals and/or pets.


I hope that you will like them. We need more Water Buffaloes and people who raise them in the United States. Even if you would not raise Water Buffaloes you can encourage people who are raising them. If I am no longer around you can still learn about them.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Military police in Soure, Brazil patrol on Water Buffaloes instead of horses. Imagine seeing your local PD coming towards you on Water Buffaloes.


----------



## River Buffaloes

So this is a buffalo heifer I bought as a weaned calf. She has grown beautifully. She will easily sell for 12-15 hundred dollars. She has all the desirable characteristics, broad hip, small round curly horns, jet black color and a sweet sweet disposition. She is 5 months pregnant and 28 months old.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Military police in Soure, Brazil patrol on Water Buffaloes instead of horses. Imagine seeing your local PD coming towards you on Water Buffaloes.


That would be awesome. I have threatened to get one for my husband to ride (he hates riding horses)


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> So this is a buffalo heifer I bought as a weaned calf. She has grown beautifully. She will easily sell for 12-15 hundred dollars. She has all the desirable characteristics, broad hip, small round curly horns, jet black color and a sweet sweet disposition. She is 5 months pregnant and 28 months old.


She's a beauty


----------



## Baymule

I think I’d like to see police riding buffaloes. That would be a show stopper!

Your heifer has nice lines, full rounded hindquarters and is just pretty all over. I’m looking at the brick wall behind her. Is the barn brick too?

You better stick around. Don’t let that virus get you.

I read articles that India developed a killed virus vaccine, have you heard any thing about it? I’d take a killed virus vaccine, but I’m not about to take this RNA vaccine experimental vaccine.

I also read articles on other countries using ivermectin as treatment to battle Covid with great success. One was an article from Nigeria. Another article mentioned India as using ivermectin protocol for treatment also. Have you read anything on ivermectin use in India?

Please take care of yourself, we enjoy you and the knowledge you impart, so very much.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> That would be awesome. I have threatened to get one for my husband to ride (he hates riding horses)


If he hates riding horses then he would love buffaloes.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I think I’d like to see police riding buffaloes. That would be a show stopper!
> 
> Your heifer has nice lines, full rounded hindquarters and is just pretty all over. I’m looking at the brick wall behind her. Is the barn brick too?
> 
> You better stick around. Don’t let that virus get you.
> 
> I read articles that India developed a killed virus vaccine, have you heard any thing about it? I’d take a killed virus vaccine, but I’m not about to take this RNA vaccine experimental vaccine.
> 
> I also read articles on other countries using ivermectin as treatment to battle Covid with great success. One was an article from Nigeria. Another article mentioned India as using ivermectin protocol for treatment also. Have you read anything on ivermectin use in India?
> 
> Please take care of yourself, we enjoy you and the knowledge you impart, so very much.



I have heard about the vaccine part, it's called CoVax. I don't usually like hearing from our government. In the financial year of 2020-21 India exported 700% more oxygen than the previous year, India produces 70% of the world's covid19 vaccines. They had a year to prepare. Yet here we are. 

Friedrich Nietzsche said "Everything the State says is a lie, everything it has it has stolen." I believe him.


----------



## CLSranch

River Buffaloes said:


> Military police in Soure, Brazil patrol on Water Buffaloes instead of horses. Imagine seeing your local PD coming towards you on Water Buffaloes.


Even though I rode bulls, many years ago, a pair of those chasing me down  would sure get me excited. And people with guns on top.


River Buffaloes said:


> "Everything the State says is a lie, everything it has it has stolen." I believe him.


So do I. And it could be said of many places.


----------



## Baymule

I like that quote. How true.


----------



## Baymule

Why don’t you join us for coffee? Or tea, as the case may be. LOL 






						Coffee anyone ?
					

Great job on the chickens @Baymule , so now how great is your freezer looking?  I have 26, 25 are sold. Of the 26, 13 are in the freezer now. Going to be storming and raining today and tomorrow morning. Hope to slaughter the other 12 tomorrow. I have 49 more that will be ready next month. 19 of...



					www.backyardherds.com


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> I read articles that India developed a killed virus vaccine, have you heard any thing about it? I’d take a killed virus vaccine, but I’m not about to take this RNA vaccine experimental vaccine.


And I am the opposite  

The mRNA "technique" has apparently been in development for some years so not really "experimental". That is why they were able to come up with a Covid version fairly quickly. 

And the mRNA Covid vaccines are significantly more protective against getting a case or getting only a non symptomatic case than the J&J "traditional technique" vaccine. Both types are supposed to be equally effective at keeping you out of the hospital or morgue. But "66% effective against getting a moderate or severe case" doesn't sound all that good compared to the mRNA based vaccines. Sounds to me like you are going to get sick with the J&J "protection" just not AS sick.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Why don’t you join us for coffee? Or tea, as the case may be. LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coffee anyone ?
> 
> 
> Great job on the chickens @Baymule , so now how great is your freezer looking?  I have 26, 25 are sold. Of the 26, 13 are in the freezer now. Going to be storming and raining today and tomorrow morning. Hope to slaughter the other 12 tomorrow. I have 49 more that will be ready next month. 19 of...
> 
> 
> 
> www.backyardherds.com


Aah I was asleep. I will surely look into it.


----------



## Beekissed

I couldn't believe it....saw a buffalo of some variety, can't remember now what it was(not a bison, as would be more typical)for sale in my state the other day!  Told my son we should buy it but he was not enthusiastic.  Made me think of you!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Beekissed said:


> I couldn't believe it....saw a buffalo of some variety, can't remember now what it was(not a bison, as would be more typical)for sale in my state the other day!  Told my son we should buy it but he was not enthusiastic.  Made me think of you!


When did you see those buffaloes for sale? And where? Where they swamp or River buffaloes?


----------



## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> And I am the opposite
> 
> The mRNA "technique" has apparently been in development for some years so not really "experimental". That is why they were able to come up with a Covid version fairly quickly.
> 
> And the mRNA Covid vaccines are significantly more protective against getting a case or getting only a non symptomatic case than the J&J "traditional technique" vaccine. Both types are supposed to be equally effective at keeping you out of the hospital or morgue. But "66% effective against getting a moderate or severe case" doesn't sound all that good compared to the mRNA based vaccines. Sounds to me like you are going to get sick with the J&J "protection" just not AS sick.


I got the J&J but that was just because it was the first one offered to me and the company I work for was not taking (and still are to a degree) the pandemic seriously. Then we had over 50 cases in a month and that's what it took for them to decide wearing masks might be a good idea, so I wanted a vaccine and didn't really care which one as anything is better than nothing.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> I got the J&J but that was just because it was the first one offered to me and the company I work for was not taking (and still are to a degree) the pandemic seriously. Then we had over 50 cases in a month and that's what it took for them to decide wearing masks might be a good idea, so I wanted a vaccine and didn't really care which one as anything is better than nothing.



Better late than sorry.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Better late than sorry.


Unless you wait to get the one you want and get sick before you get a chance to get it... Working with 500+ people every day in a building that does not require masks (luckily they are now) or social distancing and a boss that comes over and touches you randomly (she ended up catching covid exposing me) you are at a pretty bad risk of getting sick.


----------



## Bruce

Yep, in your case I would take whatever came first. I had to wait until they got to my age group which happened 3 days before my birthday. But I was lucky and got an appointment 2 days after my birthday. J&J had been approved by then but I don't think VT had gotten any yet. We've had Moderna and Pfizer all year. They started with medical people, those in care homes then worked down in 5 year age bands starting at 85 IIRC.


----------



## River Buffaloes

I have repeatedly told that Water Buffaloes are very social animals and they love every animal on their farm. Here's a good example.





__ https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=110841291153161&id=100066818720667


----------



## Baymule

Do you and your family have masks or are those unobtainable due to shortages. Do you or your family leave the house for work or shopping or have y’all selected one or two to work and shop to lessen exposure? For me and my husband, he stayed in the car while I ran in the store to get what we needed. We have our go to town bag with wipes and sanitizer.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Do you and your family have masks or are those unobtainable due to shortages. Do you or your family leave the house for work or shopping or have y’all selected one or two to work and shop to lessen exposure? For me and my husband, he stayed in the car while I ran in the store to get what we needed. We have our go to town bag with wipes and sanitizer.


No, we have masks. Well we have clinical masks that doctors wear in operation theatre. Any kind of Mask is not in short supply though. We need to leave house for obvious reasons, you can't just avoid it. However there's night curfew in place, you can't get out after 4 PM except for essential works. 

Due to rising cases of covid19 in my village the government has constructed a police chowki. I don't know what is the right English word for that, but a bunch of police man will come and they will put up tents and stay there day and night. You see they didn't send us a medical team, they sent police.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Moving on, I want to know how can I post videos here? When I try videos this happens.


----------



## River Buffaloes

I mean this


----------



## Baymule

Most videos here come from YouTube or people post a link to the video.

Chowki could that mean a temporary police station?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Most videos here come from YouTube or people post a link to the video.
> 
> Chowki could that mean a temporary police station?


Oh I see.

Temporary police station seems correct, it's a mouthful though.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Most videos here come from YouTube or people post a link to the video.
> 
> Chowki could that mean a temporary police station?



Luckily I was able to find a similar video on YouTube. As I have already said here multiple times that Buffaloes are very sociable creatures. They can bond with everyone on the farm.

Here's the video of a Buffalo's friendship with dogs.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Lol I completely forgot to post the link. I am so sorry


----------



## Baymule

Awww...... best friends! That is so unbelievably unique. Thanks for posting this.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Awww...... best friends! That is so unbelievably unique. Thanks for posting this.


That's why it pains me to see that not enough people are raising them.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Anyone here from the vicinity of Oklahoma and Maine???


----------



## Bruce

I'm closer to Maine (100 miles) than Oklahoma (1200 miles)


----------



## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> I'm closer to Maine (100 miles) than Oklahoma (1200 miles)


Lol, I'm 906 miles from Maine and 1,114 miles from Oklahoma.


----------



## Baymule

Oklahoma is about a 2-3 hour drive for me.


----------



## Bruce

Of course it would be a VERY long drive and swim for @River Buffaloes


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> Of course it would be a VERY long drive and swim for @River Buffaloes


River buffaloes like water!


----------



## Bruce

So true!


----------



## Baymule

@River Buffaloes where are you? You haven’t posted in 4 days, worried about you. With the Covid raging in India, I hope you are ok.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> I'm closer to Maine (100 miles) than Oklahoma (1200 miles)



There's a Water Buffalo farm in the State of Maine, it's called ME Water Buffalo Company. They were offering calf cuddling sessions (I didn't know there's such a thing) I saw cute toddlers cuddling cute Water Buffalo calves.  It's a beautiful farm. They also offer meat and milk products. I encourage you to check them out.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Lol, I'm 906 miles from Maine and 1,114 miles from Oklahoma.


There's a farm in North Carolina. I will have to look them up.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Oklahoma is about a 2-3 hour drive for me.



There's a ranch in Henryetta, Oklahoma, it's called Coble Highland Ranch. They do keep Water Buffaloes, but they also keep a whole lot of strange animals like Zebras, camels and some very fluffy cows. I am not sure whether they milk their Buffaloes or not.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Of course it would be a VERY long drive and swim for @River Buffaloes


You can do it, you have such a manly name.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> @River Buffaloes where are you? You haven’t posted in 4 days, worried about you. With the Covid raging in India, I hope you are ok.



So far I am fine, my phone was having a tantrum. Situation here is beyond breaking point, it has collapsed.


----------



## Baymule

So glad you are ok!


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> ME Water Buffalo Company


They are about 340 miles (550 km) from here.



River Buffaloes said:


> but they also keep a whole lot of strange animals like Zebras, camels


You do know that in the USA water buffalo would be considered to be strange animals by most 
I have 2 alpacas, they are camelids. Guess I have strange animals 



River Buffaloes said:


> You can do it, you have such a manly name.


I was thinking YOU would be doing the walking and swimming!
Regarding the name. My mother was going to name me Matt but was afraid I would get teased, called "Door mat" and the like. So yes, the "strong" name of Bruce. BUT then came a movie with a gay character named Bruce and everyone named Bruce was then automatically gay and treated poorly by the other kids. Matt would have probably worked out better.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Hello everyone, hopefully all of you are doing good.  

What according to you are the pros and cons of keeping Water Buffaloes?


----------



## Baymule

I have to hand it to you, you are totally focused and passionate about your beloved buffaloes. From what I have learned from you, the pro for me would be that they are so friendly and gentle. The con is that I don't have one. LOL LOL On just 8 acres, I don't have room for cattle, so went with small livestock. I've had cattle, I like cattle but I don't want them sue to space. 

Do you ever slaughter buffaloes for family meat?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I have to hand it to you, you are totally focused and passionate about your beloved buffaloes. From what I have learned from you, the pro for me would be that they are so friendly and gentle. The con is that I don't have one. LOL LOL On just 8 acres, I don't have room for cattle, so went with small livestock. I've had cattle, I like cattle but I don't want them sue to space.
> 
> Do you ever slaughter buffaloes for family meat?



Also Buffaloes are robust animals with very few health issues. They thrive on rough quality pasture, they can control external parasites, if they are allowed to wallow. They are very resistant to mastitis.

 Buffalo milk is very nutritious and contains more protein, calcium, sodium and good fats than cow's milk. All the while containing very significantly lower amount of cholesterol than cow's milk. That's why the milk is superfluous white.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I have to hand it to you, you are totally focused and passionate about your beloved buffaloes. From what I have learned from you, the pro for me would be that they are so friendly and gentle. The con is that I don't have one. LOL LOL On just 8 acres, I don't have room for cattle, so went with small livestock. I've had cattle, I like cattle but I don't want them sue to space.
> 
> Do you ever slaughter buffaloes for family meat?



We do sell male calves after they are weaned to the butchers, but we do not kill them ourselves. There are three reasons the first reason is that we do not have storing facilities like you have because we do not have reliable power supply, the second reason is that there's a taboo against eating old meat, third reason is that there's a taboo against killing animals you have raised from a calf or a kid or a lamb. You can buy live animals and slaughter, but not something you have raised. You can only raise birds and fish and then kill and eat them. 

So we do not slaughter our animals, but we sell them on occasions of festivals like Holi, Eid, Dushahra and during Hindu and Muslim marriage seasons. Indian marriages are very big social events. Whole village is invited.

Buffaloes store their fat under their skin. The rest of the meat is lean, but very tender and very low in cholesterol. Buffaloes gain weight much faster than the cows do.


----------



## Baymule

Those taboos are interesting. Not having reliable power to keep a freezer running sure makes it hard to store food, especially meats. The taboo against eating old meat makes perfect sense as spoiled meat would make people sick. The taboo against eating a calf, kid or lamb you have raised makes sense too. A good animal caretaker loves their animals and eating one might hurt your heart.

Birds and fish are small and easily consumed at one or two meals. So that makes sense too.

With all the virtues of buffaloes versus cattle, I wonder why more people don’t raise them. In one of your pictures, the walls are brick and very high, it that to discourage predators?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Those taboos are interesting. Not having reliable power to keep a freezer running sure makes it hard to store food, especially meats. The taboo against eating old meat makes perfect sense as spoiled meat would make people sick. The taboo against eating a calf, kid or lamb you have raised makes sense too. A good animal caretaker loves their animals and eating one might hurt your heart.
> 
> Birds and fish are small and easily consumed at one or two meals. So that makes sense too.
> 
> With all the virtues of buffaloes versus cattle, I wonder why more people don’t raise them. In one of your pictures, the walls are brick and very high, it that to discourage predators?


Well people are raising Buffaloes from Phillipines to Egypt. More people rely on Water Buffaloes than any other livestock. However there are some obvious cons of keeping Buffaloes that I was going to mention, but I got busy.


----------



## River Buffaloes

There are some cons of having Buffaloes.

1) in my personal opinion they are not suitable for extensive farming. You cannot put them on a several thousand acre ranch and after few years gather them and load them on trains. They have a tendency to go feral if they don't get human interaction for a long period of time ask Australia. 

2) their psychology and sociology. They have a strong social hierarchy. If you introduce a new Buffalo on your farm, your Buffaloes will try to fight her to see whether the New comer is dominant or submissive. Artificial insemination is not very successful in Buffaloes and female Buffaloes will only accept strong mature males. They are not into twinks.

3) they cannot produce milk like some dairy cattle breeds like jerseys and HFs. Ours produce 2-3 gallons of milk only. Some Buffaloes of breeds like Jafrabadi, Murrah and Nili Ravi can produce upwards of 5 gallons of milk. Some exceptionally good Buffalo might produce 8-9 gallons of milk, but they are extremely rare. They can't compete with cows who can produce 15 gallons of milk. 

4) Buffaloes Take a long time to mature and their pregnancy is longer by a month. A Buffalo heifer can calf in less than 36 months, where as a cattle heifer can calf at about 24 months. Still it takes 5 years for a Buffalo to get fully mature. They live live into their twenties. My friend have a Water Buffalo who is 30 years old and last year she delivered her 26th calf. Dairy industry wants animals who grow fast and die young. 

5) in West people have only ever tasted cow's milk,so the dairy industry don't need to introduce a new species. In the East people have a taste for Buffalo milk, I for example will never drink cow milk. Once you taste Buffalo milk, it's yoghurt, tea, cheese etc you will never like cows milk. Cow's milk tastes watery. Cow's milk is for old, sick, babies and poor people who can't afford Buffalo milk. In Western countries people don't like fat, even though cow's milk contains more cholesterol. We can keep buffaloes because their milk costs  twice as much as cow's milk and so do Buffaloes.

6) they are intelligent, always suspicious of unfamiliar things and people, they are very affectionate and have a tender heart. If you hurt them they will not co-operate, they can be stubborn. You have to be kind with them, like you are with your dog. They are happiest when their owners interact with them. When we are working with them and around them we constantly talk with them. Dairy industry have no time for that kind of silliness.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> the walls are brick and very high, it that to discourage predators?


The main predators we have are tigers, leopards and golden jackals. The wall is a barrier only for the jackals. Tigers never enter villages, once in a blue moon there's a news about a young subadult male tiger is roaming in the fields. They are usually chased out by mature dominant males. The folks from the forest department come and they relocate them in a new forest far from villages. 

A few years ago in the neighborhing State of Uttar Pradesh a female tigress (id T1) became man-eater and allegedly killed 13 people before she was tracked and shot. There was a big uproar after she was killed. Case like that are very rare though. I don't know anyone who has lost a family from tiger attack. They do take animals who wonder off in the reserve. 

Leopards are more interested in dogs and cats, they cannot escape with a Buffalo. 

The wall is mainly to protect Buffaloes from cattle raiders and thieves.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> the second reason is that there's a taboo against eating old meat


Curious about this. What defines old meat? Like amount of time since death or actually going bad? Here we can freeze meat for a year, sometimes more, would that be "old meat" because it has been dead too long or would it be ok because it has been kept preserved. 

I love learning little things like this about other cultures.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Curious about this. What defines old meat? Like amount of time since death or actually going bad? Here we can freeze meat for a year, sometimes more, would that be "old meat" because it has been dead too long or would it be ok because it has been kept preserved.
> 
> I love learning little things like this about other cultures.


The former, not the later. Old means old. People here like eating fresh meat straight from the butchers block to the pot. There's no such thing as preserved meat. 

People don't even like fish that has been frozen in ice. Fishermen (usually their wives) sell life fish in the market.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> The former, not the later. Old means old. People here like eating fresh meat straight from the butchers block to the pot. There's no such thing as preserved meat.
> 
> People don't even like fish that has been frozen in ice. Fishermen (usually their wives) sell life fish in the market.


Then you guys would absolutely HATE our "good" meat at steakhouses. They like to serve 30 day aged meat like that is a good thing. I don't know that I have ever had meat that fresh. Even deer we hang for a few days before we cut them up and put in the freezer or cook it. 

I understand it is a completely different climate. Traditionally people would butcher large animals like cows or pigs in the fall or winter when it was cold, so you would have a few days to get everything salted or smoked before it started going bad. But that meat also had to last you pretty much all year because you can't butcher a large animal in the summer unless you have a large population to eat it all very quickly like you do.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Then you guys would absolutely HATE our "good" meat at steakhouses. They like to serve 30 day aged meat like that is a good thing. I don't know that I have ever had meat that fresh. Even deer we hang for a few days before we cut them up and put in the freezer or cook it.
> 
> I understand it is a completely different climate. Traditionally people would butcher large animals like cows or pigs in the fall or winter when it was cold, so you would have a few days to get everything salted or smoked before it started going bad. But that meat also had to last you pretty much all year because you can't butcher a large animal in the summer unless you have a large population to eat it all very quickly like you do.


I would not hate, I believe in trying different food. I hate preconceptions. The thing I hate most about your food is the lack of spices and salt. For goodness sake it's 2021, not 1118. Spices don't sell for the price of gold!!!


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I would not hate, I believe in trying different food. I hate preconceptions. The thing I hate most about your food is the lack of spices and salt. For goodness sake it's 2021, not 1118. Spices don't sell for the price of gold!!!


Lol! yeah, now, nothing wrong with a steak that's just salted with maybe some garlic and onion powder on it, but Indian food is good too. Unfortunately, most ethnic restaurants around here are either Asian (Chinese, Japanese, Thai), or Mexican, we don't get much variety. Last time I had Indian food my husband and I had gone to a Sikh temple (my husband is a religions teacher in high school and tries to expose the kids to as many real people in the different religions as possible either in person or on a video call) and got to eat lunch after the service with them.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Lol! yeah, now, nothing wrong with a steak that's just salted with maybe some garlic and onion powder on it, but Indian food is good too. Unfortunately, most ethnic restaurants around here are either Asian (Chinese, Japanese, Thai), or Mexican, we don't get much variety. Last time I had Indian food my husband and I had gone to a Sikh temple (my husband is a religions teacher in high school and tries to expose the kids to as many real people in the different religions as possible either in person or on a video call) and got to eat lunch after the service with them.


Me and your husband would make good friends. I am also very interested in religion, philosophy and logic. I am a devout Catholic too.


----------



## Mini Horses

We are not a country of heavy spices.  Most often our ethnic cooks are where we learn spice utilization.  So many were not available in our background, often because many were not grown here, in pioneer days.

I love learning customs and cooking from other countries.   Italy has great herds of buffalo.   And their cooking far different.  They do sell fresh/live seafood at shore side town markets, as well as butcher rabbits for you on the spot!  Another country where they shop fresh daily, having more limited storage resources.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> Me and your husband would make good friends. I am also very interested in religion, philosophy and logic. I am a devout Catholic too.


The area where he teaches is low income, most of the kids don't know anyone that isn't Christian of some sort of another, so he tries to make sure they are aware of the other religions and see the people that follow them as people and not scary monsters like they tend to grow up thinking. He has gotten a Hindu gentleman to speak to them, we were going to take any of them that were interested to the Sikh temple but that was right before Covid shut everything down. He has had a few other people speak to them as well but I can't think of them off of the top of my head. I find it all very interesting but I'm not into studying it as much as he is.


----------



## Beekissed

River Buffaloes said:


> When did you see those buffaloes for sale? And where? Where they swamp or River buffaloes?


I do believe it mentioned water in the ad but can't remember where they were now....I'm in WV.  Do a Google and see if you come up with something.  

Found some in Maine...





__





						Home
					

Home



					mewaterbuffaloco.co


----------



## Baymule

I have a freezer full of meat. I raised a steer and we split him with our daughter and family. Raising meat chickens now, have 20 sold out of 48, will split the rest with daughter and her family. I also can chicken in jars and can broth too. I guess I like old meat.  

I also put vegetables in the freezer or can them. We have a good growing season but winter comes and it’s nice to have food we grew and prepare it for a meal.


----------



## Simpleterrier

We as Americans eat a lot more meat then other countries. One reason we don't use heavy spice and salt is we handle and preserve our meat better. Most the time heavy spice is to cover the taste of rotten meat and to kill the bacteria. I have been to south America Africa and Europe none tourist and that is what I have been told and seen. Europe they boiled the tar out of the meat with no spice. I have ate dog, guinea pig, alpaca, and all the common ones from the us including most wild game. Nothing beats a rare ribeye with just salt on it.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Beekissed said:


> I do believe it mentioned water in the ad but can't remember where they were now....I'm in WV.  Do a Google and see if you come up with something.
> 
> Found some in Maine...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Home
> 
> 
> Home
> 
> 
> 
> mewaterbuffaloco.co


I know someone who keeps Water Buffaloes. I call them snow Buffaloes.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I have a freezer full of meat. I raised a steer and we split him with our daughter and family. Raising meat chickens now, have 20 sold out of 48, will split the rest with daughter and her family. I also can chicken in jars and can broth too. I guess I like old meat.
> 
> I also put vegetables in the freezer or can them. We have a good growing season but winter comes and it’s nice to have food we grew and prepare it for a meal.


We also pickle and dry a lot of vegetables and fruits, but they are much more spicy and oily.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Simpleterrier said:


> We as Americans eat a lot more meat then other countries. One reason we don't use heavy spice and salt is we handle and preserve our meat better. Most the time heavy spice is to cover the taste of rotten meat and to kill the bacteria. I have been to south America Africa and Europe none tourist and that is what I have been told and seen. Europe they boiled the tar out of the meat with no spice. I have ate dog, guinea pig, alpaca, and all the common ones from the us including most wild game. Nothing beats a rare ribeye with just salt on it.



Often there isn't even enough salt


----------



## River Buffaloes

River Buffaloes said:


> There are some cons of having Buffaloes.
> 
> 1) in my personal opinion they are not suitable for extensive farming. You cannot put them on a several thousand acre ranch and after few years gather them and load them on trains. They have a tendency to go feral if they don't get human interaction for a long period of time ask Australia.
> 
> 2) their psychology and sociology. They have a strong social hierarchy. If you introduce a new Buffalo on your farm, your Buffaloes will try to fight her to see whether the New comer is dominant or submissive. Artificial insemination is not very successful in Buffaloes and female Buffaloes will only accept strong mature males. They are not into twinks.
> 
> 3) they cannot produce milk like some dairy cattle breeds like jerseys and HFs. Ours produce 2-3 gallons of milk only. Some Buffaloes of breeds like Jafrabadi, Murrah and Nili Ravi can produce upwards of 5 gallons of milk. Some exceptionally good Buffalo might produce 8-9 gallons of milk, but they are extremely rare. They can't compete with cows who can produce 15 gallons of milk.
> 
> 4) Buffaloes Take a long time to mature and their pregnancy is longer by a month. A Buffalo heifer can calf in less than 36 months, where as a cattle heifer can calf at about 24 months. Still it takes 5 years for a Buffalo to get fully mature. They live live into their twenties. My friend have a Water Buffalo who is 30 years old and last year she delivered her 26th calf. Dairy industry wants animals who grow fast and die young.
> 
> 5) in West people have only ever tasted cow's milk,so the dairy industry don't need to introduce a new species. In the East people have a taste for Buffalo milk, I for example will never drink cow milk. Once you taste Buffalo milk, it's yoghurt, tea, cheese etc you will never like cows milk. Cow's milk tastes watery. Cow's milk is for old, sick, babies and poor people who can't afford Buffalo milk. In Western countries people don't like fat, even though cow's milk contains more cholesterol. We can keep buffaloes because their milk costs  twice as much as cow's milk and so do Buffaloes.
> 
> 6) they are intelligent, always suspicious of unfamiliar things and people, they are very affectionate and have a tender heart. If you hurt them they will not co-operate, they can be stubborn. You have to be kind with them, like you are with your dog. They are happiest when their owners interact with them. When we are working with them and around them we constantly talk with them. Dairy industry have no time for that kind of silliness.



One thing I forgot to mention in the cons is that they love water, they are called Water Buffaloes for a reason. They need water during summer months. It could be a river, creek, irrigation canal, pond, puddle, hose, bucket anything. They love water!!!  If you don't give them anything they will dig puddles in the first rain they get!!!


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> milk tastes watery. Cow'


Then you REALLY wouldn't like skim milk. I call that white water, no fat.



River Buffaloes said:


> For goodness sake it's 2021, not 1118. Spices don't sell for the price of gold!!!


True but too much salt is not healthy.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> We also pickle and dry a lot of vegetables and fruits, but they are much more spicy and oily.


What are your favorite spices and what do you use most often. Oh, and what vegetables/meats do you use them on?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> What are your favorite spices and what do you use most often. Oh, and what vegetables/meats do you use them on?


I love all spices, but two things that is essential in every savoury dish or drink is cumin seeds and peppercorns. They are essential, you can't do without them. Similarly Green cardamom and cinnamon is essential in desserts. Fennel seeds are used in sweet drinks. Asafoetida must be used in lentils and pulses.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> What are your favorite spices and what do you use most often. Oh, and what vegetables/meats do you use them on?


Only thing we cook without spices are rice and roti. However there are several rice and roti dishes that use spices, but those are not eaten daily. Otherwise there are spices even for tea.


----------



## River Buffaloes

This is what we mean when we say, the deeper the swamp, the happier the Buffalo.









						It was a good day for a swim... count how long Monson can hold his breath... | By ME Water Buffalo Co. | Facebook
					

847 views, 57 likes, 9 loves, 7 comments, 5 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from ME Water Buffalo Co.: It was a good day for a swim... count how long Monson can hold his breath...




					fb.watch


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> I love all spices, but two things that is essential in every savoury dish or drink is cumin seeds and peppercorns. They are essential, you can't do without them. Similarly Green cardamom and cinnamon is essential in desserts. Fennel seeds are used in sweet drinks. Asafoetida must be used in lentils and pulses.


I have heard very interesting things about Asafoetida. I have never smelled it but everyone talks about putting it in several layers of plastic wrap to keep it from stinking up the kitchen. These same people say it is great in food, just smells really funky. 

Do you have any vinegar based drinks? There is one I like that is vinegar (apple cider vinegar), lemon, and honey that is kind of like a very old and basic sports drink due to the vitamins in the vinegar and lemon plus the sugar from the honey.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> This is what we mean when we say, the deeper the swamp, the happier the Buffalo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a good day for a swim... count how long Monson can hold his breath... | By ME Water Buffalo Co. | Facebook
> 
> 
> 847 views, 57 likes, 9 loves, 7 comments, 5 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from ME Water Buffalo Co.: It was a good day for a swim... count how long Monson can hold his breath...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fb.watch


Do they mess up the water or just wallow? Cows will urinate and defecate in the water that they are standing in and drinking. I had cows in my pond this weekend, it was hot and they had been let into that field so they were wallowing in the water enjoying themselves.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> I have heard very interesting things about Asafoetida. I have never smelled it but everyone talks about putting it in several layers of plastic wrap to keep it from stinking up the kitchen. These same people say it is great in food, just smells really funky.
> 
> Do you have any vinegar based drinks? There is one I like that is vinegar (apple cider vinegar), lemon, and honey that is kind of like a very old and basic sports drink due to the vitamins in the vinegar and lemon plus the sugar from the honey.



We do put vinegar on salads and some meat dishes like vindaloo, but we are not very vinegar loving culture. We have a lot of things to make food sour like buttermilk, tamarind, raw mango, lemons there are so many kinds of lemons, the lemon plant was domesticated here.

There are few food stuffs that people are often very divided on. Either people like it or hate it, there's no middle ground, they are asafoetida, fennel seeds, black cardamom, Himalayan salt, ripe jackfruit and colostrum.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Do they mess up the water or just wallow? Cows will urinate and defecate in the water that they are standing in and drinking. I had cows in my pond this weekend, it was hot and they had been let into that field so they were wallowing in the water enjoying themselves.


Oh yeah, they will turn the pond into a pond of chocolate shake.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> We do put vinegar on salads and some meat dishes like vindaloo, but we are not very vinegar loving culture. We have a lot of things to make food sour like buttermilk, tamarind, raw mango, lemons there are so many kinds of lemons, the lemon plant was domesticated here.
> 
> There are few food stuffs that people are often very divided on. Either people like it or hate it, there's no middle ground, they are asafoetida, fennel seeds, black cardamom, Himalayan salt, ripe jackfruit and colostrum.


How about Durian? lol

I believe fennel has a licorice flavor. Not sure I have had any of the others. I will try anything once, I may hate it and not want it again, but I will at least try it once. 

We also have Ginko here as shade trees, they SHOULD be propagated from cuttings from male trees but some less than honest nurseries around here started a bunch from seed and sold them to the city... now we have a bunch of female trees dropping fruit that smells like vomit on the ground and sidewalks.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> How about Durian? lol
> 
> I believe fennel has a licorice flavor. Not sure I have had any of the others. I will try anything once, I may hate it and not want it again, but I will at least try it once.
> 
> We also have Ginko here as shade trees, they SHOULD be propagated from cuttings from male trees but some less than honest nurseries around here started a bunch from seed and sold them to the city... now we have a bunch of female trees dropping fruit that smells like vomit on the ground and sidewalks.


We don't have durian here, I have heard about it though. They say that it is like jackfruit, but it's not nearly as sweet and tasty. Ripe jackfruits have a strong, floral and sweet aroma and the pods are slimy. I don't know why but some people like me just can't resist the smell and many other people just can't stand that smell. I sometimes can't believe how can 50% people absolutely love something and 50% of the people can't even stand the smell.

I have heard about that ginko tree, they are a living fossil, the animal they relied on to spread fruits has long gone extinct, but ginko trees are still dropping their smelly fruits for them. Similarly jackfruits are designed to be eaten by elephants. It's the largest fruit in the world, it grows at the height at wich elephants can access them easily. The pods are slippery so the seeds can't get chewed. In many parts of the world elephants are long gone, but jackfruit trees are still growing fruits for them.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> We don't have durian here, I have heard about it though. They say that it is like jackfruit, but it's not nearly as sweet and tasty. Ripe jackfruits have a strong, floral and sweet aroma and the pods are slimy. I don't know why but some people like me just can't resist the smell and many other people just can't stand that smell. I sometimes can't believe how can 50% people absolutely love something and 50% of the people can't even stand the smell.
> 
> I have heard about that ginko tree, they are a living fossil, the animal they relied on to spread fruits has long gone extinct, but ginko trees are still dropping their smelly fruits for them. Similarly jackfruits are designed to be eaten by elephants. It's the largest fruit in the world, it grows at the height at wich elephants can access them easily. The pods are slippery so the seeds can't get chewed. In many parts of the world elephants are long gone, but jackfruit trees are still growing fruits for them.


Like that one tree ( I can't remember it's name) that they discovered an entire forest of them that were around 100 years old and no young ones but the ground was completely covered in fruit. Turns out, the fruit has a very tough outer shell and was eaten by dodo birds before they were driven to extinction and without the dodo birds they can't reproduce anymore. They force fed some seeds to turkeys and they were able to get some seedlings to grow. 

Plant and animal relationships like that fascinate me.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> Asafoetida must be used in lentils and pulses.


I had to look that up
"Asafoetida is the dried latex exuded from the rhizome or tap root of several species of Ferula, perennial herbs growing 1 to 1.5 m tall. They are part of the celery family, Umbelliferae. Wikipedia"

Somehow dried rubber doesn't sound very appetizing 😉

I don't think my pond is deep enough for River buffalo


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> I had to look that up
> "Asafoetida is the dried latex exuded from the rhizome or tap root of several species of Ferula, perennial herbs growing 1 to 1.5 m tall. They are part of the celery family, Umbelliferae. Wikipedia"
> 
> Somehow dried rubber doesn't sound very appetizing 😉
> 
> I don't think my pond is deep enough for River buffalo


You never know until you try!!!

I don't have any pond, they don't need any. River Buffaloes can improvise.


----------



## Kusanar

Bruce said:


> I had to look that up
> "Asafoetida is the dried latex exuded from the rhizome or tap root of several species of Ferula, perennial herbs growing 1 to 1.5 m tall. They are part of the celery family, Umbelliferae. Wikipedia"
> 
> Somehow dried rubber doesn't sound very appetizing 😉
> 
> I don't think my pond is deep enough for River buffalo


I believe it is also fermented... so partially rotten dried rubber! But in all seriousness, apparently it is a good spice to replace garlic or onions if you can't have those and a little goes a long way.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> I don't have any pond, they don't need any. River Buffaloes can improvise.


Like breaking through the fences and going the 1/2 mile down the road to a somewhat reasonable size River? 😉


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Like breaking through the fences and going the 1/2 mile down the road to a somewhat reasonable size River? 😉



Oh they are easy on fences, once they get the shock, they are never going to touch it again. Once one of my buffaloes was eating sweet ripe fruits from our local taad palm and a big ripe juicy fruit fell on her head. Now she admires the fruits from a distance.


----------



## River Buffaloes

For a long time now I wanted to show you how to make authentic/desi ghee. The real stuff, not clarified butter (that garbage is unhealthy) so here we go step by step. You can use cow's, goat's or sheep's milk if you don't have Buffalo milk, but you will not get the same amount of ghee.

Number one the milk it's three liters (about 2/3rd of a gallon) of milk. Buffalo milk in this case.


Number two boil it slowly on low flame. We do it on a clay stove specially made for boiling milk, we use dried dung cake and paddy husk as fuel. 

Clay stove boiled, you can see the fat that has accumulated on the surface


Since you may not have a milk boiling clave stove so I boiled some milk on LPG. It will look like this. The fat has accumulated on the surface.



Number three you add culture to this milk and will turn into yoghurt.



Number five you add water and churn it. You can see my grandmother churning it.




You can see the cultured butter separating from the buttermilk


Number six you take the butter out, Buffalo's butter is white so don't worry if yours come out cream colored. 



Number seven you heat it on low flame until all the water is evaporated. Then you cool it and it will look like this. 



That's about a pound of ghee from less than a gallon of milk.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> For a long time now I wanted to show you how to make authentic/desi ghee. The real stuff, not clarified butter (that garbage is unhealthy) so here we go step by step. You can use cow's, goat's or sheep's milk if you don't have Buffalo milk, but you will not get the same amount of ghee.
> 
> Number one the milk it's three liters (about 2/3rd of a gallon) of milk. Buffalo milk in this case.
> View attachment 85144
> 
> Number two boil it slowly on low flame. We do it on a clay stove specially made for boiling milk, we use dried dung cake and paddy husk as fuel.
> 
> Clay stove boiled, you can see the fat that has accumulated on the surface
> View attachment 85145
> 
> Since you may not have a milk boiling clave stove so I boiled some milk on LPG. It will look like this. The fat has accumulated on the surface.
> 
> View attachment 85146
> 
> Number three you add culture to this milk and will turn into yoghurt.
> 
> View attachment 85147
> 
> Number five you add water and churn it. You can see my grandmother churning it.
> View attachment 85148
> 
> View attachment 85149
> 
> You can see the cultured butter separating from the buttermilk
> View attachment 85150
> 
> Number six you take the butter out, Buffalo's butter is white so don't worry if yours come out cream colored.
> 
> View attachment 85151
> 
> Number seven you heat it on low flame until all the water is evaporated. Then you cool it and it will look like this.
> 
> View attachment 85152
> 
> That's about a pound of ghee from less than a gallon of milk.


I love that churning setup. If I am seeing it right it spins? When we do butter (or at least the old fashioned way) it is an up and down motion or a sloshing side to side motion, that spinning motion looks like it would be much easier to do for longer periods of time.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> I love that churning setup. If I am seeing it right it spins? When we do butter (or at least the old fashioned way) it is an up and down motion or a sloshing side to side motion, that spinning motion looks like it would be much easier to do for longer periods of time.



Yes, you are correct, it spins. You see my grandmother is pulling the string, once from one hand and from another. 




In this short video you can see the lady churning the yoghurt, in India many people call it curd (it's wrong).


----------



## Bruce

Interesting, I'm glad she showed the working end of the "beater". It looks like it rises and falls as it spins so action in 2 planes. Seems very efficient.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Interesting, I'm glad she showed the working end of the "beater". It looks like it rises and falls as it spins so action in 2 planes. Seems very efficient.



There are different beaters in different parts of the country. My beater looks very different, but works in the same way.


----------



## Baymule

That is intensely interesting how you make ghee. The ropes twisting the beater looks like it would be much easier than the up down motion of American butter churns. 
Your grandmother is a very lovely lady.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> That is intensely interesting how you make ghee. The ropes twisting the beater looks like it would be much easier than the up down motion of American butter churns.
> Your grandmother is a very lovely lady.



Ghee has a high smoking point of at about 480° f. Butter has a smoking point of only 300°f. Butter also contains milk protein which burns and that can char the food.


----------



## Baymule

I have used ghee. If I had a milking animal I would probably make my own.

I raise feeder pigs, we sell one or two and keep one for our freezer. I get the fat and render it for the lard. It makes the flakiest pie crust and I use it in stir fry.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I have used ghee. If I had a milking animal I would probably make my own.
> 
> I raise feeder pigs, we sell one or two and keep one for our freezer. I get the fat and render it for the lard. It makes the flakiest pie crust and I use it in stir fry.


I love lard, leaf lard is the best. It's specially best when added flavor or is not desired. Ghee have a soft and distinct nutty flavor.


----------



## Baymule

I render it down and can it in quart jars. Being Southern, we like fried foods and lard is the best. I also use olive oil, occasionally coconut oil. I never use store bought oils as they are all GMO.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

I would really like to raise Water/River buffaloes, but we have zero standing water for them, plus our elevation is just at a mile high (5,200 feet) with very hot summers.  But it is great to learn about them!


----------



## River Buffaloes

HomeOnTheRange said:


> I would really like to raise Water/River buffaloes, but we have zero standing water for them, plus our elevation is just at a mile high (5,200 feet) with very hot summers.  But it is great to learn about them!



A water hose is more than enough if keep just a few. Water buffaloes are just as comfortable in flowing water, they can cross the Mississippi five times a day lol. the problem is that it's difficult to contain them in a river. You cannot fence Mississippi.

5200 ft elevation shouldn't be a concern. Our Gaddi herders take their buffaloes up in Himalayas every spring and bring them back to plains every autumn. In the US I know people who keep them in Utah, Idaho and Colorado those are in your vicinity. I think I know someone in New Mexico, but I will have to check.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Have you guys heard about this wonderful French-Italian chef Jean-Pierre he is wonderful chef. I love his recipes. I think you would like him. He has a loves his wine too, just like me.


----------



## River Buffaloes

So a Florida man that I know bought 8 Water Buffaloes, 2 bred females, two yearling heifers and one yearling bull, a blond bottle calf female and two four years old bred cows. Now I had advised that gentleman to take care of nutritional needs of Water Buffaloes and make sure that they are raised on rough quality pasture. However that gentleman went on and gave them alfalfa pellets.

Now native grass species of Florida is already ideal for Water Buffaloes because of their tropical nature and high silica content, but no he had buy and feed them alfalfa pellets. All of his Buffaloes got sick, specially the smaller ones. The little bottle baby became seriously ill. Thankfully they all survived, because of their strong constitution, but it's bad practice.

Water Buffaloes in their native tracts are raised dried paddy and wheat straw (basically agricultural wastes), wheat and rice bran etc. When we feed them legumes like Egyptian clover, we mix ample amount of wheat of rice straw, otherwise we feed them plants from grass family like bamboo leaves, oats, barley, sorghum and all the natural native grass they graze on.

I understand that people love their animals, but I think should also be aware of what their animal's dietary requirements are and what's good and bad for them. You cannot be like "awww I got my little Water Buffalo, I will hug him, I will pet him and call him George."


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> So a Florida man


Lol, you might have to live in the states to understand... but some of the best stories about stupid people or crazy accidents start with "a Florida man...."


----------



## Bruce

Glad the animals made it ok. Like the buffalo one should not feed alfalfa to alpacas, apparently it is too high on protein and will make them sick. Of course mine are super picky, don't like the first cut grass hay, too much stem. They like the lighter textured second cut.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Glad the animals made it ok. Like the buffalo one should not feed alfalfa to alpacas, apparently it is too high on protein and will make them sick. Of course mine are super picky, don't like the first cut grass hay, too much stem. They like the lighter textured second cut.



You may feed adult Water Buffaloes some legumes, but in moderation, mixed with ample amount of grass.


----------



## Baymule

Any responsible animal owner would research the animals they care for to learn how to best care for them. That guy is a complete dummy. Buffaloes sound like a great small homestead animal. Friendly tops my list. When on small acreage, one has very close contact with their animals, an unfriendly one can cause damage.
I do not keep breeding stock on pigs, only young pigs to feed out for the freezer. Even those can be dangerous. I don’t want cattle, one, I don’t have room, two, I don’t want to always be watching my back from a 2,000 pound bull or a 1200-1500 pound momma cow. Been there, done that. The feeder steer we raised was just right. No need for breeding stock.

Buffaloes make perfect sense for small homesteaders. Meat, milk and friendly.


----------



## River Buffaloes

I.A. daughter of Musolino (Mediterranean Buffalo) from Azienda Agricola Circe in Italy.
For international semen delivery contact Intermizoo


----------



## Bruce

Are you and your family staying safe from Covid? Sounds like it is getting better in India but "better" is a really relative term.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Are you and your family staying safe from Covid? Sounds like it is getting better in India but "better" is a really relative term.



We are alright. It looks like it's getting better, but nowadays I rarely trust what I see and hear. Our government is dishonest, our media is sold-out and people are ignorant.
.


----------



## messybun

River Buffaloes said:


> I.A. daughter of Musolino (Mediterranean Buffalo) from Azienda Agricola Circe in Italy.
> For international semen delivery contact IntermizooView attachment 85628



She’s gorgeous! But that face has me laughing!


----------



## River Buffaloes

messybun said:


> She’s gorgeous! But that face has me laughing!



Water Buffaloes are truly funny animals and they have a lot of character. For some reasons they like decorating their horns usually with plants. They will often make you laugh with their antics. 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1062580630449787/permalink/5377603525614121/


----------



## River Buffaloes

The most difficult part of raising Buffaloes for me is weaning their calves. Ideally Water Buffalo calves should be weaned at the age of 3 to 4 months, but when I try to wean them they pout and sulk and whine and make me feel miserable. So I generally rely on their moms who are usually tough to do the job, but they do it around the age of 6-8 months. And then there is one particular Buffalo who is a first time moma and is pregnant for the second time, Her calf was 10 months old and she had still not weaned her. My grandmother sold that calf.😞


----------



## Baymule

Do you keep your own bull or is there a shared bull in your village?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Do you keep your own bull or is there a shared bull in your village?



In our place there's a caste whose job is to provide bull services to farmers. Some farmers including me have released bulls for village services, but we no longer do it now because of our proximity to the tiger reserve big cats take them. In some places rich farmers keep their personal bulls. Nomads also keep personal bulls. Many Village Panchayats (governing body of village) maintain bulls called 'Panchayati Bulls'. These bulls are either donated by farmers or provided by State Government.


----------



## Baymule

That sounds like a pretty good system.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> That sounds like a pretty good system.


Yes, that's why it's so cheap here. It takes 0-3 dollars to get your cow / Buffalo bred


----------



## Baymule

$0-$3 to breed a Buffalo or a cow! Not here!


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> And then there is one particular Buffalo who is a first time moma and is pregnant for the second time, Her calf was 10 months old and she had still not weaned her.


Horses are normally weaned around 4-6 months by people, if mama has the choice you never know how long they will nurse for. I once saw a picture of a mustang mare with her 2 year old (or maybe a bit older) daughter nursing while HER daughter nursed from her. 3 generations in 1 picture.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> Horses are normally weaned around 4-6 months by people, if mama has the choice you never know how long they will nurse for. I once saw a picture of a mustang mare with her 2 year old (or maybe a bit older) daughter nursing while HER daughter nursed from her. 3 generations in 1 picture.



 One of my buffaloes who will be four in November and a mom herself and pregnant for the second time has not given up on the idea of nursing, but her mon wants nothing of that.


----------



## Kusanar

River Buffaloes said:


> One of my buffaloes who will be four in November and a mom herself and pregnant for the second time has not given up on the idea of nursing, but her mon wants nothing of that.


That's apparently an issue with milk cattle as well, they will try to nurse off of each other. They put plastic rings in their noses that have spikes on them to make the other cows kick them off when they try to nurse.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Kusanar said:


> That's apparently an issue with milk cattle as well, they will try to nurse off of each other. They put plastic rings in their noses that have spikes on them to make the other cows kick them off when they try to nurse.



Buffaloes are generally very good at weaning their calves. I had a buffalo who only nursed her calf for like a month or two. After that never allowed the calf to nurse and she gave a lot of milk. My problem was that I had to bottle feed her calves and that was a chore. Buffaloes also don't allow their calves to nurse whenever they please. They only allow them when they are feeling the pressure of milk. So we let the calves graze with their mamas, but we seperate them or become vigil during in late noon.

  I have never seen a buffalo nursing someone else's calf. I have heard about it, but I have never seen one doing so and I have seen thousands of Buffaloes, not only because we trade in buffaloes, but also because many many people here keep them.  So buffaloes drinking eachother's milk has never been an issue. The buffalo I mentioned was weaned by her mom herself at six months, mom never allowed her to nurse after that. 

Here I am sharing links to two videos in which big buffalo calves are nursing of their moms. Remember these are exceptions and the moms are really old and their value is only because of their pedigree or genetics. One is of India and one is from Pakistan


----------



## River Buffaloes

Story of the most successful Water Buffaloes farm in Maine.











						Water Buffalo Talk | Facebook
					

A place to discus/list your WATER BUFFALO.  Can discus other exotics but please no common farm animals, birds or reptiles.




					www.facebook.com


----------



## River Buffaloes

Another major mistake folks make with buffaloes is that they put the buffalo calves on calf milk replacer. Yeah because buffaloes milk is too expensive for the calves to drink, which I can understand. However the calf milk replacer does not have the adequate nutrition. The best options are buffalo milk replacer and the lamb milk replacer. Goat milk replacer may also work fine, but if you must put them on calf milk replacer then you should add supplements for adequate development of the buffalo calves.


----------



## Baymule

What would you supplement with? You might add to NOT use a soy based milk replacer. We raised 2 bottle lambs last winter and I bought a soy based milk replacer, Dumor. It stunk, they didn't like it and it gave them runny poop. We were raising them on a formula of
1 gallon whole cow milk
1 can evaporated milk
1 cup cultured buttermilk

Pour out 2 cups milk, add evaporated milk and buttermilk.

That formula worked great. I had the milk replacer as back up. We had record breaking cold, ice and snow, temperatures to -6F and the grocery store shelves were bare. I had the neighborhood on milk patrol, as milk was hard to find and there were limits on how much you could buy. I wound up using the milk replacer to stretch out the formula.  But I certainly learned my leesson on milk replacer!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> What would you supplement with? You might add to NOT use a soy based milk replacer. We raised 2 bottle lambs last winter and I bought a soy based milk replacer, Dumor. It stunk, they didn't like it and it gave them runny poop. We were raising them on a formula of
> 1 gallon whole cow milk
> 1 can evaporated milk
> 1 cup cultured buttermilk
> 
> Pour out 2 cups milk, add evaporated milk and buttermilk.
> 
> That formula worked great. I had the milk replacer as back up. We had record breaking cold, ice and snow, temperatures to -6F and the grocery store shelves were bare. I had the neighborhood on milk patrol, as milk was hard to find and there were limits on how much you could buy. I wound up using the milk replacer to stretch out the formula.  But I certainly learned my leesson on milk replacer!



See cow's milk is mainly deficient in calcium, protein and fat. Anything that bring these three nutrients up can be used. As you may already know that I don't use milk replacers and those who do use buffalo replacer. What I have heard from the States that they use lamb replacer or goat milk replacer. When they use cow milk replacer they supplement for calcium, protein and fat. Some I have heard use groundnut oil, cod liver oil, calcium and stuff like that.


----------



## River Buffaloes

So it's raining for almost a week and it's going to rain for like a week more.


----------



## River Buffaloes

For three days in a row I got drenched in rain while grazing my Buffaloes. Buffaloes are enjoying the rain. This Buffalo is going into the shrubs to decorate her horns. They don't eat that weed they just put shrubs and other plants

 on their horns for some reason.


----------



## Baymule

There you are! What lush grass! That is a pretty picture with the buffalo, like the farmlands.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> There you are! What lush grass! That is a pretty picture with the buffalo, like the farmlands.


Yes monsoon type climate is very conducive to agriculture (generally)

 you can see the village in the background. In Old World settlements are different, homes are clustered together and it is surrounded by farm lands


----------



## River Buffaloes

Several villages have been flooded after more than a week of early monsoon rains in the catchment areas of the Gandak and Burhi Gandak rivers in Nepal and north Bihar. We have received heavy rain every day since the arrival of Monsoon. This year Monsoon is widespread and highly active in Bihar. Within a week of it's arrival we have received more than 8 inches of rain.

Affected districts include West Champaran, East Champaran, Gopalganj and Muzaffarpur. Other rivers including the Bagmati, Koshi, Kamla Balan, Bhuthi Balan and Ghaghara are also in spate due to heavy rains.

The rising waters of the Gandak have washed away roads, small bridges and are threatening embankments. The Gandak is flowing above the danger mark. We have no power, we are using government provided solar panel to recharge our phones and to light bulbs, but we didn't receive enough sunlight to recharge the batteries. We got sunlight only two days and only for a couple of hours.

The rising Gandak forced the administration June 16 to open all 36 sluice gates of the Gandak Barrage at Valmiki Nagar and release water.

Several towns of the West Champaran district, including Bagaha, Bettiah and Narkatiaganj have been inundated with 2-3 feet of floodwater.

We never expected so much rain soon after the monsoon entered the state. We were not fully prepared for the flood. Our surrounded by floodwater. We are totally cut off as roads had been washed away. But no government agencies officials has come so far to help us.


Our state is not new to floods, but we were taken by surprise by the amount of rainfall we received within a week after the monsoon entered. Heavy rainfall in the state is normal during July and August.


----------



## Kusanar

Ugh, I guess at least the buffalo like water...


----------



## Baymule

That is a lot of rain. You are surrounded by water? What about the crop lands, I guess they are under water.


----------



## Bruce

I know some areas here in the USA that would love to take SOME of that rain off your hands! Feast or famine with rain it seems.


----------



## River Buffaloes

River Buffaloes said:


> Several villages have been flooded after more than a week of early monsoon rains in the catchment areas of the Gandak and Burhi Gandak rivers in Nepal and north Bihar. We have received heavy rain every day since the arrival of Monsoon. This year Monsoon is widespread and highly active in Bihar. Within a week of it's arrival we have received more than 8 inches of rain.
> 
> Affected districts include West Champaran, East Champaran, Gopalganj and Muzaffarpur. Other rivers including the Bagmati, Koshi, Kamla Balan, Bhuthi Balan and Ghaghara are also in spate due to heavy rains.
> 
> The rising waters of the Gandak have washed away roads, small bridges and are threatening embankments. The Gandak is flowing above the danger mark. We have no power, we are using government provided solar panel to recharge our phones and to light bulbs, but we didn't receive enough sunlight to recharge the batteries. We got sunlight only two days and only for a couple of hours.
> 
> The rising Gandak forced the administration June 16 to open all 36 sluice gates of the Gandak Barrage at Valmiki Nagar and release water.
> 
> Several towns of the West Champaran district, including Bagaha, Bettiah and Narkatiaganj have been inundated with 2-3 feet of floodwater.
> 
> We never expected so much rain soon after the monsoon entered the state. We were not fully prepared for the flood. Our surrounded by floodwater. We are totally cut off as roads had been washed away. But no government agencies officials has come so far to help us.
> 
> 
> Our state is not new to floods, but we were taken by surprise by the amount of rainfall we received within a week after the monsoon entered. Heavy rainfall in the state is normal during July and August.
> 
> View attachment 86256View attachment 86257View attachment 86258



The problem is that the if we release the Buffaloes, it will be difficult to herd them back. There's a Hindi saying "the Buffalo is gone in Water" it means the task has become complicated


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> That is a lot of rain. You are surrounded by water? What about the crop lands, I guess they are under water.



Yes, the rice was not transplanted yet, but the sidlings were almost ready. They are gone


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> I know some areas here in the USA that would love to take SOME of that rain off your hands! Feast or famine with rain it seems.


Bring in your ropes and planes


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> The problem is that the if we release the Buffaloes, it will be difficult to herd them back. There's a Hindi saying "the Buffalo is gone in Water" it means the task has become complicated


That makes perfect sense to me.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> That makes perfect sense to me.



I have heard a new one, "love me like flood, I will submerge in you like Bihar."


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> I have heard a new one, "love me like flood, I will submerge in you like Bihar."


If that doesn’t melt a lady’s heart, nothing will!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> If that doesn’t melt a lady’s heart, nothing will!



The problem with monsoon is that we get a lot of rain in relatively short amount time. Like we received around 1200 mm (around 50") of rain in 2020 of which 1000mm (around 40") of rain was received in just 3 months.


----------



## Baymule

We have never gotten that much in that short of a time, but we have had some monumental rains. The first year we lived here, yearly total was  somewhere around 60”, normal rain is 45” for the year. That year, culverts washed out, it flooded low areas, but we are high and dry. Then here comes summer! Hit!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Monsoon is causing havoc in the Western States.


----------



## River Buffaloes

In Bihar enjoying and celebrating the opening of weather, even though it's still raining almost every day. The rains are not as heavy.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffalos! I’ve been worried about you and your family. Even our small town news reported on the flooding in western India. I wondered how you fared and how your family were found. I’m so happy to know that the rains are more normal in your area. I’m greatly saddened by the loss of life and the hardships on the survivors. I know you must be busy during this time of year, thanks for posting so we know you are ok.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> River Buffalos! I’ve been worried about you and your family. Even our small town news reported on the flooding in western India. I wondered how you fared and how your family were found. I’m so happy to know that the rains are more normal in your area. I’m greatly saddened by the loss of life and the hardships on the survivors. I know you must be busy during this time of year, thanks for posting so we know you are ok.


Watch people enjoying the flood in unique way in a dingy boat. Many big city people would not even climb in this boat.


----------



## River Buffaloes

The monsoon is not normal here either. It rained too much and too early.


----------



## Baymule

I can’t get that video to play.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I can’t get that video to play.


 let's try once again. 




If that doesn't work copy paste this Hindi title

बिहार : बाढ़ में लौंडा नाच, बीच नदी में नाव पर | वीडियो हुआ वायरल |


----------



## Bruce

I'm glad you are OK River Buffaloes!


----------



## River Buffaloes

Hiii folks!!! How is everyone doing? I am back after a long break. I was very busy these past few months. I am finally back for a winter break. 

I am trying to establish my own little business. If it succeeds I hope to stay here for a longer period of time.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes!! So glad you are back! I’ve been missing you. Starting your own business, how exciting. I wish you much success with it. What is the business that you are starting?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> River Buffaloes!! So glad you are back! I’ve been missing you. Starting your own business, how exciting. I wish you much success with it. What is the business that you are starting?


Fodder!!! Buying paddy straw and wheat straw and cutting it into small chaffs and selling to marginal and landless farmers. 

Also I will be trying my hand in YouTube.


----------



## Baymule

And they use the fodder to feed their buffaloes? That is a good idea and I’m sure there is a demand for it. I am guessing that the straw is a waste product for the farmers raising grain and you are creating a market for it. Enterprising young man, you are! 

How are things with your family? Is everyone doing well? Do you have to leave the village and travel to operate your business or can you do it in your own area?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> And they use the fodder to feed their buffaloes? That is a good idea and I’m sure there is a demand for it. I am guessing that the straw is a waste product for the farmers raising grain and you are creating a market for it. Enterprising young man, you are!
> 
> How are things with your family? Is everyone doing well? Do you have to leave the village and travel to operate your business or can you do it in your own area?


There is already a market for it. See in India and in other parts of the Old World, there is a thing called "common land" system. It depends on land use. So if I have a plot of agricultural land and for whatever reason it is fallow then I can't stop anyone from grazing their animals on it, there's also government land and 'proclaimed pastures' (land that was declared pasture by rulers of the past) are open for grazing for all or part of the year. That's how people without any land are able to keep animals and sometimes in their hundreds. However there are times when enough grass is not available to feed all animals, either because their is no fallow land or because government close national parks for grazing after monsoon or maybe the herd is too small to waste your time wandering around with them. So you now do what is called 'stall feeding'. You buy dry and green fodder, feed your animals at home until the harvesting season in April. In March - April all lands become fallow again. 

Now there are also some people who do jobs and keep only a handful of animals so instead of grazing their animals they stall feed them.


----------



## Baymule

I feed my sheep too. I don’t have enough grass or forage for them, so have to pen them up between grazings to let the grass grow again. So I buy big round bales of hay in the summer when it is baled. I buy pellet feed at the feed store. I sell lambs at auction. 

My land is fenced. If I tried to herd them down the sides of the road to graze, speeding idiots in pick up trucks would run over them. LOL Now it is winter, grass is dormant.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I feed my sheep too. I don’t have enough grass or forage for them, so have to pen them up between grazings to let the grass grow again. So I buy big round bales of hay in the summer when it is baled. I buy pellet feed at the feed store. I sell lambs at auction.
> 
> My land is fenced. If I tried to herd them down the sides of the road to graze, speeding idiots in pick up trucks would run over them. LOL Now it is winter, grass is dormant.



I am sure that by now you would have watched grazers taking their cows, buffaloes, sheep, goats on a busy Indian highway for grazing. That's a must have clip on any documentary made on India.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> Hiii folks!!! How is everyone doing? I am back after a long break. I was very busy these past few months. I am finally back for a winter break.


Glad to see you, I was afraid Covid snuck up and took you out.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Not so fast


Bruce said:


> Glad to see you, I was afraid Covid snuck up and took you out


----------



## Baymule

We definately want to keep you around!


----------



## Finnie

So glad to see you back, @River Buffaloes ! Just the other day I was thinking about you and how you haven’t posted in months. And like @Bruce , I was a little bit worried because last time we heard from you, your village was flooded and COVID was killing many people in India. I’m glad it didn’t get you. 

Good luck with your fodder business! It sounds very promising.


----------



## TheCluckyClucker

I was looking at getting into a small cattle business. You know, breed, sell the bull calves keep the heifers, sell the old cows. So far, I have run into too many problems. I dont really have enough land, and they dont seem to be profitable. Someone suggested researching water buffalo and I came upon this thread. How much do water buffalo actually cost? I'm over here in Central Arkansas USA. I have over 10 acres to put cattle on. Well, after the probably 3 acres set aside for horses. I'm not really sure where I should go? Thoughts? Advice?


----------



## River Buffaloes

TheCluckyClucker said:


> I was looking at getting into a small cattle business. You know, breed, sell the bull calves keep the heifers, sell the old cows. So far, I have run into too many problems. I dont really have enough land, and they dont seem to be profitable. Someone suggested researching water buffalo and I came upon this thread. How much do water buffalo actually cost? I'm over here in Central Arkansas USA. I have over 10 acres to put cattle on. Well, after the probably 3 acres set aside for horses. I'm not really sure where I should go? Thoughts? Advice?


I can't help you with the price, but I think somewhere in this thread I have posted a list of Facebook pages and groups that you should join. There you will find people selling and buying buffaloes. Try to get yearlings and weaned calves and read this thread. It's not all that long. If you don't understand something, feel free to ask.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Check post #230


----------



## farmerjan

I like the thread that @River Buffaloes  started.  I think they are a neat animal.  BUT, you need to consider the whole part and parcel.  There is little or no market for them as far as taking the bull/steer calves to the local stockyard/sale barn.  You need to have a specific market for them or you will not have a way to recoup any cost.  It seems to me that they make a better animal for milking for certain markets. 

Why not do really good fencing and raise some sheep or even goats?  They require much better fencing than some cattle, the turn around time is much faster and it is a very good stable market for a good part of the year.  I honestly think you are going to find that the horses are going to require alot more than the 3 acres you think they need.  That will not begin to take care of their grazing requirements.  
Just thinking that you can  have a few animals, let them breed, sell the bull calves and keep the heifers and then cull a few head is just not practical.  You will not make any money at it on a regular basis.  Yes on occasion you will have a good year, but you will not have the numbers to make it even a break even proposition.  Sheep and goats can be run about 3-5 head per what one cow will eat... and have a 5 month pregnancy so can be bred to have babies in the spring and sell them in the fall.  There is alot of other things to learn about them.  They are not something you can just turn out and sit back and watch them multiply any more than you can do it with cattle.  But the return is decent with less money input in feed costs.


----------



## TheCluckyClucker

farmerjan said:


> I like the thread that @River Buffaloes  started.  I think they are a neat animal.  BUT, you need to consider the whole part and parcel.  There is little or no market for them as far as taking the bull/steer calves to the local stockyard/sale barn.  You need to have a specific market for them or you will not have a way to recoup any cost.  It seems to me that they make a better animal for milking for certain markets.
> 
> Why not do really good fencing and raise some sheep or even goats?  They require much better fencing than some cattle, the turn around time is much faster and it is a very good stable market for a good part of the year.  I honestly think you are going to find that the horses are going to require alot more than the 3 acres you think they need.  That will not begin to take care of their grazing requirements.
> Just thinking that you can  have a few animals, let them breed, sell the bull calves and keep the heifers and then cull a few head is just not practical.  You will not make any money at it on a regular basis.  Yes on occasion you will have a good year, but you will not have the numbers to make it even a break even proposition.  Sheep and goats can be run about 3-5 head per what one cow will eat... and have a 5 month pregnancy so can be bred to have babies in the spring and sell them in the fall.  There is alot of other things to learn about them.  They are not something you can just turn out and sit back and watch them multiply any more than you can do it with cattle.  But the return is decent with less money input in feed costs.


Thank you for this info. Just two horse, we know how google lies, but it said 2 acres for first horse and an additional acre for each additional horse. I have a terrible fear of goats though. I was around a baby goat one day and decided maybe they aren't so bad. Yes, laugh at me all you want.


----------



## Bruce

TheCluckyClucker said:


> Yes, laugh at me all you want.


OK
  


Land carrying capacity depends a LOT on the land! I think I would check with an extension agent on how much YOUR land can carry.

Kid goats are very cute! What makes you fear goats?


----------



## River Buffaloes

farmerjan said:


> I like the thread that @River Buffaloes  started.  I think they are a neat animal.  BUT, you need to consider the whole part and parcel.  There is little or no market for them as far as taking the bull/steer calves to the local stockyard/sale barn.  You need to have a specific market for them or you will not have a way to recoup any cost.  It seems to me that they make a better animal for milking for certain markets.
> 
> Why not do really good fencing and raise some sheep or even goats?  They require much better fencing than some cattle, the turn around time is much faster and it is a very good stable market for a good part of the year.  I honestly think you are going to find that the horses are going to require alot more than the 3 acres you think they need.  That will not begin to take care of their grazing requirements.
> Just thinking that you can  have a few animals, let them breed, sell the bull calves and keep the heifers and then cull a few head is just not practical.  You will not make any money at it on a regular basis.  Yes on occasion you will have a good year, but you will not have the numbers to make it even a break even proposition.  Sheep and goats can be run about 3-5 head per what one cow will eat... and have a 5 month pregnancy so can be bred to have babies in the spring and sell them in the fall.  There is alot of other things to learn about them.  They are not something you can just turn out and sit back and watch them multiply any more than you can do it with cattle.  But the return is decent with less money input in feed costs.



I am not 100% sure, but I read somewhere that mozzarella has become the number one consumed cheese in the United States. If that's anything to go by buffaloes are a better option than cows. Paneer, bocconcini, feta, brie and many other cheeses are made using buffalo milk. Paneer, ghee, buttermilk, yoghurt and gelato are very popular among South Asian communities. As far as male calves go I have seen, buffalo calves getting sold much faster than cattle calves and at a higher price. 

Another plus point is that a buffalo will never kick you in the gut, cows will both literally and figuratively.


----------



## Bruce

River Buffaloes said:


> As far as male calves go I have seen, buffalo calves getting sold much faster than cattle calves and at a higher price.


But that is in India, right? Where cattle aren't eaten, as they are here, by pretty much the entire population? Seems reasonable that the more desirable/edible species would sell better. I think it is hard get a market started for a new product, no matter how popular it might be elsewhere in the world.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> But that is in India, right? Where cattle aren't eaten, as they are here, by pretty much the entire population? Seems reasonable that the more desirable/edible species would sell better. I think it is hard get a market started for a new product, no matter how popular it might be elsewhere in the world.


It's true for India too, but I was talking about USA really.  Btw cattle are eaten in India,  majority of them are killed and eaten illegally and India is second largest beef exporter. It's just that people who don't eat cattle, eat carabeef and it tastes good and is much healthier.


----------



## farmerjan

The market for cheeses and such is good and I am all for the usage of the milk from the river buffalo.... I was not trying to be negative... I just wanted @TheCluckyClucker  to realize that there would not be an "easy" sale barn recouping of selling the buffalo at the local sale barn.  If the meat is good to eat, then that would be a good way to recoup investment with the private sale of the meat....but that is going to require someone to also plan for raising and slaughter of the bull/steer calves and such at a certain age and to market the meat.... But as you well know @River Buffaloes , milking and making products from the milk is a time consuming project and that the buffalo cows need to be milked regular and all that.  They require a certain amount of dedication and commitment.  Just the same as milking a family cow..... you can't do it when it suits you or whenever you feel like it. Even with sharing the milk with the calf, as I do with my nurse cows, there is still something to be said for a commitment to the animal.  
I think it would be neat to have a couple.... just for comparison reasons.....


----------



## Bruce

I don't think my pond is big enough for one, let alone multiple, river buffalo.


----------



## TheCluckyClucker

Bruce said:


> OK
> 
> 
> 
> Land carrying capacity depends a LOT on the land! I think I would check with an extension agent on how much YOUR land can carry.
> 
> Kid goats are very cute! What makes you fear goats?


Me, being a small child, did not feed a goat right and it bit my finger. This summer I went to a horse camp and we did a 'pet parade' and I chose a baby goat. I got to brush him and lead him and now I am not nearly as scared by them. The petting zoo goats are pretty scary. They would just eat you alive for the cup of food in your hand. I just need a little pygmy goat or something so I can overcome my fear completely. Chickens, all day. Cows, all day. Horses, all day. Goats, I have to think about It. I want to be a vet. Farm vet specifically. Gotta knock this out of the way.


----------



## Bruce

Yes you do! And now, being somewhat older, you know why the goat bit you, not to be mean but to get FOOD!! 
I'm sure those petting zoo animals are pretty aggressive fighting for first shot at the next kid with a cup. But your OWN goats can be trained to be decent, civil members of the farm. 

And good for you wanting to be a farm vet, I'm sure they are in short supply in many places.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> Yes you do! And now, being somewhat older, you know why the goat bit you, not to be mean but to get FOOD!!
> I'm sure those petting zoo animals are pretty aggressive fighting for first shot at the next kid with a cup. But your OWN goats can be trained to be decent, civil members of the farm.
> 
> And good for you wanting to be a farm vet, I'm sure they are in short supply in many places.


You can always eat the unruly members of the farm. In my opinion the worst behaving animals taste best. I have eaten a lot of mean roosters. Cock au vin is hell of a recipe and the best French contribution to the art of cooking. 

Farm vets are indeed in short supply.


----------



## TheCluckyClucker

We only have one farm vet in town. We have three small animal clinics, one of thrm being the large animal vet. Also, Dr. Pol is the greatest show in the world.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Hii everyone, I hope everyone is doing well. I am doing a part-time job at my district magistrate's office so I was absent lately, today is a holiday and tomorrow is a holiday so I was free.


----------



## Bruce

I'm glad to see that you are still with us! How are things there with respect to Covid?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Bruce said:


> I'm glad to see that you are still with us! How are things there with respect to Covid?


Oh it never seems to go away, every couple of months there's a panic around this covid thing and then people go back to normal. How is it there?


----------



## Finnie

River Buffaloes said:


> Hii everyone, I hope everyone is doing well. I am doing a part-time job at my district magistrate's office so I was absent lately, today is a holiday and tomorrow is a holiday so I was free.


River Buffaloes! So good to hear from you! It’s nice that you think of us when you have free time. 


River Buffaloes said:


> Oh it never seems to go away, every couple of months there's a panic around this covid thing and then people go back to normal. How is it there?


Pretty much the same, except without the go back to normal part. 

Edit to add: I should probably clarify that here in Indiana there doesn’t really seem to be much panic. Most things are somewhat normal (new normal) most of the time. The crazy stuff I read about seems to be in other states.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Finnie said:


> River Buffaloes! So good to hear from you! It’s nice that you think of us when you have free time.
> 
> Pretty much the same, except without the go back to normal part.
> 
> Edit to add: I should probably clarify that here in Indiana there doesn’t really seem to be much panic. Most things are somewhat normal (new normal) most of the time. The crazy stuff I read about seems to be in other states.



I assume because Indiana is now a bastion of Republicanism, crazy that you had a democratic senator up until 2019. I have never been to Indiana, but I have been to neighboring Ohio. I loved it's rich agricultural tradition and Amish community. Although as a Catholic I was rather perplexed to know that they were Christians too, but to be fair I was much younger back then in my early teens.


----------



## Baymule

I’m glad that you are back, even if it’s just a little while.


----------



## Bruce

No Covid craziness here, most people are masking and distancing but there are plenty who are not. Still have people dying daily, people in the ICU (21), hospitalized (88).  Greatest percentage of those are the unvaccinated. And of course people with underlying conditions are more at risk whether vaccinated or not. Total of 553 deaths. 901,000 deaths in the country.


----------



## farmerjan

The more rural part of Va and western area is alot more lax than the eastern (democratic) areas.  Most here that test positive for the latest virus variant are vaccinated.... there are still some hospitalizations and if there wasn't so much stupidity about not trying/treating alternative methods early on, I don't think we would have the serious sicknesses and deaths.  My son said they have had nearly half the guys test positive and several have not been sick... and 2/3 are vaccinated.  He had it back over a year ago and has not been vaccinated and because of that has to test regularly and has been negative every time.  Same with 2 other guys that had it, non-vaccinated, negative tests.   One of the dairy farmers I milk test for; his wife is a nurse and she said it is appalling that they keep saying it is the unvaccinated when she said there are 3 to 1 VACCINATED ones that are winding up in the hospital.  She ought to know since that is the floor she has worked on since the beginning....
Masks are worn by maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the people that you see out in public... I wear one to go to the Physical Therapist since I had my knees replaced in the end of Oct.... less than 1 hour.... that's it.  And several states have finally dropped the mandates for children since they are least at risk... and there have been sooo many more health problems and mental problems with the masks.... 
Still unbelievable that "no one" died from the flu last year and it seems to be a non-entity again this year... 

Glad that you are doing well under all the circumstances.  Good to see your posts. 

Our weather has been real winter-like.... cold and more snow this year than in the past few... hope it clears the air out some...kills some insects too....Have been as low as 6F and many nights in the teens...Hoping to get a warm up this week for a few days into the 50's....


----------



## TheCluckyClucker

I have been wondering if some of the people who test positive for Covid actually had the flu. If there is some connection between them. I had the flu the year that Covid started. I tested positive anyway. Felt like Covid. Interesting isnt it...


----------



## Baymule

I take my vitamins along with zinc, selenium, vitamin C and I try to get my rest and eat right. Hahaha on the last 2, lately, my life is nuts. Plus I already had it, tested for antibodies and I have good immunity.


----------

