# mini cattle, sheep, goats.......business, your experience, best option



## AMT15 (Mar 10, 2013)

I'm not sure where to put this, might as well right here. Who has a business raising mini cattle, sheep and/or goats? I would love to hear from others who raise them as a full fledged business or just where they bring in some extra income. Only ever had a pair of pet goats, but would love to up the scale and start something that could bring in some money while satisfying my need to be raising animals! lol I'm thinking of mini cattle, goats or sheep. Which ones (IYO) are the easiest, most popular/profitable and yes, fun? I would consider meat animals, but wouldn't be doing any of the killing/processing, that takes the fun out of it for me! So live sales only, they can do the butchering. Dairy animals, a little to intensive/demanding for me. Maybe I'll eventually do some goat soaps and the such. But all that beside, I want to hear what you have to say and your experience.
Thank you for sharing


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## PotterWatch (Mar 10, 2013)

We raise sheep, chicken, and beef steers for profit, but we don't sell them as live animals unless someone specifically wants it live.  Mostly we sell packaged, ready to cook meats to individuals through farmers markets or our CSA.  We wouldn't be able to make a living selling live animals I don't think.  We process the chicken ourselves but the beef is done at a USDA facility and the lamb is done at a state inspected facility.


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## AMT15 (Mar 10, 2013)

Thanks for posting. Yes, I figured selling live-only wouldn't help me out. But I never thought about just taking them to the butchers and not doing it myself, DUH! Though I would still prefer live sales, that would maybe actually work for me  It apparently doesn't bring the profit down significantly. And I would be interested in trying to get into the CSA.


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## AMT15 (Mar 10, 2013)

So to what extent do they do the butchering? Or rather, what's left for you to do after they kill the animal?


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## PotterWatch (Mar 10, 2013)

When we take the beef steers, we deal with nothing other than dropping them off and then picking up the packaged cuts from the butcher.  The facility we deal with does the slaughter and then ships the carcass to the butcher we use.  He then ages, cuts, and packages everything.  With the sheep, we bring the animals to our guy and he kills, skins, and guts.  If we, or our customers want to keep any of the organs, we take them at that time and package them ourselves.  The rest of the meat goes to our local butcher and he cuts and wraps it.  We pick up the packaged meat when it is done.  How you have to do things and still be able to sell the packaged meat may vary depending on your state.  We are able to sell cuts of beef because it is USDA inspected.  We sell our lamb by the whole, half, or quarter animal.  When people sign up for our CSA program, they get their half of a lamb doled out to them in small amounts over the span of 6 or 12 months.  We can't just sell cuts of lamb because it is not USDA inspected.  The butcher who does the cutting and packaging on our beef is setting up his own kill floor that will be USDA inspected so we are hoping to bring some lamb to him in the next few months so that we can sell cuts of that as well.


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## boykin2010 (Mar 10, 2013)

I raise Katahdin hair sheep for profit.   They are in HUGE demand and most breeders have waiting lists in advance just to buy a lamb. 
No shearing, no docking, parasite resistant, meaty, and good mothers. What more could you ask for? 
They are capable of lambing twice per year (although once is recommended) and require minimal grain.  I only supplement mine with grain while they are lactating. 
Other than that, they are on pasture year round, and during the winter I feed hay.  I find that they can be profitable, especially someone with a larger flock. (I only keep 12 adults year round)  They are super easy to raise, and really fun!  What I like most is that they are hardy and docile.  Plus, they come in many different colors! You never what color combination you are going to get. 

www.ewecrazyfarms.com
www.katahdins.org


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## AMT15 (Mar 10, 2013)

Potter, thanks for all the info, very helpful and appreciated. So to sell to CSA customers you don't need to be inspected by the USDA, but to Farmers Markets and other public you do? Sound easy enough to "get the ropes". How abut storage, you just freeze it I guess. And keeping it fresh in a cooler during visits to the farmers market.
Boykin, thanks for posting, good to hear more about the sheep, if I end up with the sheep I hope to do Katahdins or Dorpers, possibly crosses. Do you not sell processed animals?


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## PotterWatch (Mar 10, 2013)

We can get lamb to our CSA customers because they sign a contract saying they commit to buy six "boxes" of meat from us. The amount of lamb they get over those six boxes equals half a lamb. So really, we have a lamb slaughtered for every two customers and just give them the packaged cuts over the course of their subscription. They are actually buying half a lamb, not cuts, so it can be done at a state inspected facility rather than a USDA one. 

Any packaged cuts of beef and lamb we sell to individuals in any way, must be USDA inspected. If people buy a whole or half animal, they purchase the live animal and then it can be slaughtered on their behalf at a custom slaughter place. The chicken we sell is processed by us here on the farm. The rules about selling home-slaughtered chicken vary by state. The rules about selling beef and lamb may very well be different in other states as well but I have never looked into it. 

Our beef and lamb is sold frozen. We bring a freezer with us to farmers markets to store it in during the market. It runs off a battery and inverter. We sell our whole chickens fresh and we also sometimes cut up and vacuum-seal different pieces and sell those frozen as well.


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## AMT15 (Mar 10, 2013)

Okay, some more great info, thanks again. Encouraging me to get something going!


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## AMT15 (Mar 10, 2013)

One last question for you, which brings in more profit, the CSA customers or Market sales? Oh yea, how much do you get for the meat if you don't mind. Sorry for all the questions! I'll try to stop there!


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## SheepGirl (Mar 10, 2013)

I have a commercial farm flock of crossbred white face ewes. They are on pasture year round, but when pasture runs out (mid January) I put them in a dry lot and started feeding them hay so the pasture won't become a muddy mess. They lambed within the past 10 days, I got four lambs (three ewes, 1 ram) but one ewe lamb died shortly after birth (she froze). I will probably be keeping both ewe lambs (definitely the first one born because she is a meaty little monster that gained 5.8 lbs in one week) and selling the ram lamb. Depending on how he grows he will be kept either as a ram or wethered. I'm thinking if I keep him intact, I will breed him to my ewe lambs born last year and sell him as a stud ram or if he doesn't grow how I want then he will be castrated and taken to auction (or maybe I will have him butchered so my family can eat him).

I plan to expand my flock to about 10 ewes because we only have 2 acres fenced for pasture. I could keep as many as I want if I had them dry lotted, but it's cheaper and more cost effective to have them eating free (relatively speaking, anyway) grass.

My market is the auction (for live lambs) and the wool pool (for shorn fleeces). You can read my business plan on my web site http://twinwillowacres.webs.com/business-plan

There is money in livestock, just not a lot. It's pays to have a large operation because costs per lb of production go down because you can buy feed in bulk (or grow it yourself), labor is more spread out, etc. When you have a small operation you make less money per animal (for example, I have two mature ewes and two ewe lambs, three of which are/were pregnant and I expect to make only $120 this year total--by 2015, I expect to make $1200 if I have 10 ewes by then).


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## AMT15 (Mar 10, 2013)

Thanks for posting. Good website as well, with excellent info. So could I raise them completely grass fed like grass-fed beef?


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## SheepGirl (Mar 10, 2013)

You could, but IMO, a solely grass based diet is not healthy for the modern domesticated sheep. Sheep (especially prolific sheep) will need grain in late gestation and lactation at the very least. Lambs will need it while they're growing. Sheep with a belly full of lambs need nutrient dense food (such as grain) because there isn't much room for the amount of grass and/or hay they would need to meet their needs in their belly. Their skin can only stretch so much! And growing lambs (especially those with fast growth rates) need more protein than grass or hay can provide.

If you want to make money with sheep, you need production sheep, not hobby/rare/'heritage' breeds. Those breeds as a general rule grow too slow, eat too much, and don't produce enough lambs. Sheep that will make you money are fast growers (think blackfaced breeds and other large breeds of sheep), produce oodles of lambs (think Finnsheep and Romanovs), and are feed efficient/do well on forage during their maintenance period (think most whitefaced breeds).


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## boykin2010 (Mar 12, 2013)

Registered Katahdin ewes are selling for right around $600 per ewe lamb in my area.  So, if you have an established flock there is definitely money to be made...  The demand is huge for hair sheep right now. 

As far as meat, a few of my rams born every year are studs so are not eaten. The ones that are not good enough to be studs are either eaten by me, or picked up ALIVE by a customer.  I think most lamb meat is going for about $2 per pound on the hoof If I remember correctly.


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## AMT15 (Mar 13, 2013)

Okay, So you never mentioned any hair sheep! lol Well, all the ones you did mention need shearing, right? If I can get sheep, they're going to be hair sheep!
@ BoyKin, good to know.


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## bcnewe2 (Mar 21, 2013)

I raise and sell hair sheep (meat).  Have been for over 15 years.  I don't buy or a sell registered stock, to much time and advertising.  I'd like to see actual proof of 600 dollar ewes that aren't 4H inflated or from some of the yearly speciality sales (ram sale in Sedalia MO).  I'm sure there are some sold out there for that much but certainly not the norm round here.  Nice ewes or super nice rams maybe go for 200-250$ round here but average pricing is less.  Find a local livestock auction that deals in sheep and they should be posting prices per pound on their website. It varries daily or by season.  Right now lambs are up with the holidays but for us that's about 1.50 +\-per lb.  I use Midwest Livestock exchange because they are pretty spot on for the market round here.  Its a bit hard to understand but the pricing is per pound not whole lamb.
My sheep pay for themselves if I have a good year, and then some. I just moved to a new place and will probably stock 20 give or take breeding ewe on 20 or so acres but if you have issues or are just starting out there are lots of little thing that drain those first few years of lamb money. 
I'm selling fat lambs for Easter for about 100 bucks on the hoof depending on size. They were born early January.  I am a bit cheap but my lambs are selling.  I'd rather sell a bit cheaper than be stuck with taking them to slaughter later.  Later means more food not much more money so now is my time! 
No matter what money I make, just taxes alone make it worth it for me.
I've had wool sheep and hair, I prefer hair as they are hardier, way leas maintence and less bothered by parasites. But if I were younger and could shear myself I'd probably go with Mules (a cross sheep of cheviot ewes and blue face lester(excuse my spelling can't figure out how go spell check) ram. They are big meaty and fast growing but again hair beats anything in my book for management. I have dorper and dorper katahdin crosses.
Good luck


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## AMT15 (Mar 21, 2013)

Excellent info, thanks for posting.


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## boykin2010 (Mar 21, 2013)

bcnewe2 said:
			
		

> I raise and sell hair sheep (meat).  Have been for over 15 years.  I don't buy or a sell registered stock, to much time and advertising.  I'd like to see actual proof of 600 dollar ewes that aren't 4H inflated or from some of the yearly speciality sales (ram sale in Sedalia MO).  I'm sure there are some sold out there for that much but certainly not the norm round here.  Nice ewes or super nice rams maybe go for 200-250$ round here but average pricing is less.  Find a local livestock auction that deals in sheep and they should be posting prices per pound on their website. It varries daily or by season.  Right now lambs are up with the holidays but for us that's about 1.50 +\-per lb.  I use Midwest Livestock exchange because they are pretty spot on for the market round here.  Its a bit hard to understand but the pricing is per pound not whole lamb.
> My sheep pay for themselves if I have a good year, and then some. I just moved to a new place and will probably stock 20 give or take breeding ewe on 20 or so acres but if you have issues or are just starting out there are lots of little thing that drain those first few years of lamb money.
> I'm selling fat lambs for Easter for about 100 bucks on the hoof depending on size. They were born early January.  I am a bit cheap but my lambs are selling.  I'd rather sell a bit cheaper than be stuck with taking them to slaughter later.  Later means more food not much more money so now is my time!
> No matter what money I make, just taxes alone make it worth it for me.
> ...


I just spoke with about 6 different breeders last weekend looking for some registered replacement Katahdin ewes.  They all charged between $550 and $600. 
I would be happy to PM you their websites if you would like to check them out. Just let me know 
I don't advertise my registered sheep for sale besides having pictures and a little information on my website and being a member of KHSI.  Just about every breeder in my area sells out 12 months in advance and you have to be on a waiting list to get a lamb.   In my area, the money is in registered sheep. May not be everywhere, and registered sheep are certainly not for everyone. In my area people don't show a  lot of Katahdins, mostly suffolk.  The GA national fair just is allowing Katahdins to be shown for the first time this upcoming year.


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## bcnewe2 (Mar 26, 2013)

I guess we just don't have that market here in Mid-west MO.  I know of few people that keep registered stock and when they do it's only to build their flock with better animals, but registered isn't always better round here.

Boykin, I looked at your website, your sheep are very nice.

Funny, a couple years ago I lived on the western slope of CO, when it was time for me to move home I had to give my sheep away as I could find no one to pay anything for 8 nice cheviot ewes that were perfect for breeding.

Here I have a strong ethinic market for fat lambs and a whole nother market for older lambs.  But no one looking for reg. sheep.

Maybe I live in the wrong place!


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