# Wow just kidded! but I have a concern. advice plz.



## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

So she must have kidded between 10:30-and 2:30 today. I was checking on her at 10:30 and she showed no signs of anything. no contractions, no breathing hard, she was perfectly normal. I was waiting to give her a snack because I have some friends from NJ coming all the way down, so i wanted the kids to feed her the banana. Well at 2:30 I go to give her some hey and change all the duck and chicken water, and notice she looks different in the udder. I trimmed her last night but was not very succesful with a mix of 1 handed trimming with $10 clippers, while holding a goat in 1 arm................. yeah not the best job. But her udder looked to defined from a disatnce. So I opened the pen and notice my black and white chicken, is not a chicken but a lil goat running around jumping up and down. 

      


So I instantly get some molasses, warm water, and fresh hey. I also make a bottle. The baby will not drink the bottle but keeps nursing mom so OH well!

Mom also won't touch the molasses water. sniffed it once and went and drank regular water.


So I put all the stuff down, and go to looking for the other goat, and the after birth. Didn't find either. In fact no sign of either.  that is where my concern is.


She still looks quite pregnant. She has energy and is eating and really taking good care of her newborn. It is her first time. But I was convinced she would have twins. 

what are the chances she still has a kid that will be born?

what are the chances she has retained a kid and get sick?

What signs should I look for in the next couple days indicating a problem? 

Is there any way that I can feel her and know?


p.s. she is a friendly goat who wants attention but does not like to be handled or really touched. So I don't like having to hold her cuz she hates it. and I don't want her to stress.


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## chandasue (Feb 7, 2011)

Do a search on "bouncing" to see if you can feel anything. She might have only had one and ate the placenta. (Gross but it's instinctive.)


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

was gonna let her eat her birth, itsnatural. It was just odd seeing no signs of it anywhere? no wet goo in the hay. At least that I can find. So crazy.


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## Roll farms (Feb 7, 2011)

She's either passed it and eaten it already, or hasn't passed it yet.

I've had one retained placenta in 250 or so births...not hugely common, but can happen.  Sometimes takes several hours before they pass it.

Keep an eye on her behavior, feed / water intake, temp, etc. and if all stay normal....she's fine.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 7, 2011)

Does she still have a 'rope' hanging out her rear end?  If so, she most likely still has a placenta in there.  I've gotten impatient before and massaged udders until they crank out the placenta.. Massaging the udder causes them to release some hormone or another (oxytocin?...can't remember) that makes the placenta come out naturally..  Usually the kid nursing does the trick, but I've literally massaged and massaged and you can see them start hunching over and the rope will start moving as they have contractions..  Next thing ya know, plop -- out comes the placenta..

Usually do that if I'm tired after having been kept up all night by a screaming goat, and I just want to go take a nap. I know...it's kinda like cheating in a way and it's probably not what the goat wants at the moment, but at that point, I don't really care what the goat wants anymore.


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## elevan (Feb 7, 2011)

I had a pygmy very similar in October.

She gave birth within a narrow window of me not being there to witness it.  I never saw or was able to locate the after birth.  She still looked huge.

She only gave birth to one.  Her "innards" moving back into place was freaking me out cause I thought she must have another one in there.  It was just my imagination running wild.

She sounds like she's acting normal...

Congratulations!  And where's the pics?


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> I had a pygmy very similar in October.
> 
> She gave birth within a narrow window of me not being there to witness it.  I never saw or was able to locate the after birth.  She still looked huge.
> 
> ...


Here!!!:


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

BTW NOW THAT THE PICS ARE UP: WTH is up with her COLOR????? This was a pygmy to a pygmy breeding. That is one odd looking kid!

she is agouti fron and agouti back, with a white barrel for a dress??? So odd.


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## elevan (Feb 7, 2011)

Were the dam and sire both registered pygmies?

I'm betting there is some nigerian dwarf in the ancestry of that kid.

She is absolutely adorable btw!


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## Our7Wonders (Feb 7, 2011)

Wow!  What a cutie!  I don't have a clue about the color but she's just adorable!  Congratulations!


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## elevan (Feb 7, 2011)

True 100% pygmies are pretty straightforward with coloring.

If they are not registered though...you're likely to have some ND thrown in.  There is a lot of color variation in NDs.


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## Ariel301 (Feb 7, 2011)

That is odd coloring...what a cutie though. 

I just had a dark brown and white spotted doe bred to a black and white buck have two white kids...sometimes weird stuff happens. I don't think purebred Pygmy goats have spotting genes though, so maybe there was some mixing somewhere back in the ancestry.


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## chandasue (Feb 7, 2011)

Super Cute is what I'd call that color--I love it when the color is a total surprise! Congrats BTW!


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

I know all the parents 3 gens back. And they were all pygmies. These are not registered stock, but have been pure pygmies. The father is a red carmel, and the grandmother is a black and white. Its odd that she has agouti front legs and head, and black and white body. Maybe she is a split gene recessive (a true piebald) LOL. or just an old throwback to a cur goat................... Either way really active and cute.


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## elevan (Feb 7, 2011)

Unregistered.  Then I'm sure you've got some ND or something in the far ancestry of her.  Doesn't diminish that her color is very cute!

There are still some people out there that think all dwarf goats are pygmies...and don't really believe that they are a breed unto themselves.  Unfortunately I've ran across a few of them  

As to what her coloring is called...I think it's helmstead that is really good at that...


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

I don't know about pygmies, but if she were a Nigerian she'd be black roan with white and frosting.

Congrats, she's a cutie!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

First Congrats!! Beautiful baby!!!  

Generally your doe will pass an afterbirth or placenta after all kids are delivered. Usually this will occur within 2 hours after delivery, but should happen within 12. Do NOT assist in taking the placenta from the doe. If you pull on it, you can cause permanent damage to the uterus and possible internal bleeding resulting in death. Sometimes when the placenta is passed the doe will have contractions as if delivering another kid. Some does will eat the afterbirth. Just keep your eyes open and keep looking for evidence. If you think she has not passed it after 12 hours..call the vet..they have medications that will help this pass.  I think "Karen" just went through this with a doe.  I recall reading she had to get medication for a doe that did'nt pass the placenta.  But dont wait...really...she can really get ill!!

There are 2 schools of thought on eating the afterbirth. One is let them, the other is don't. For those that let the doe eat it, they feel it is the natural thing the doe does and provides nutrients to the doe. For those that don't, they feel it can cause disruption in the rumen and you end up with problems after, as the afterbirth is not sanitary.  Thats a personal choice...

Keep a watch for a few days on her, she will have a bloody discharge. If it is flowing and looks like hemorrhaging, call your vet ASAP. After a few days of the bloody discharge, your doe will continue discharging fluids, but the color and consistency will be that of reddish-brown pudding. This too is normal and can start and stop over the next 3 - 4 weeks. 

Check her temp...make sure shes eating, drinking and doing ok!!  And enjoy that miracle you have!!!  

PS...She the first goat I heard of that turned a nose to molasses!!!
Goaties!! They always keep suprising me! Thats why I love them!!!


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## helmstead (Feb 7, 2011)

What a pretty baby!  Congrats!!

I see you have chickens n ducks in there with them...chickens are especially quick about helping clean up afterbirth  so between the doe and the birds... you're probably OK.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 7, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> ...chickens are especially quick about helping clean up afterbirth  so between the doe and the birds... you're probably OK.


  eeewwwwww!!  But true!!


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## elevan (Feb 7, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> I don't know about pygmies, but if she were a Nigerian she'd be black roan with white and frosting.


Oh, so you're the one I should have referred to for ND type coloring  
I knew it was you or helmstead  

That's the thing...pygmies don't have that coloring unless there is a cross someone in the genes (even far back).  Everything is pygmy until you see that belt and spots  :/

I like the frosting thing...reminds me of a chocolate cupcake with marble frosting...    Ok, now I'm gonna have to go bake!  



			
				helmstead said:
			
		

> I see you have chickens n ducks in there with them...chickens are especially quick about helping clean up afterbirth sickbyc so between the doe and the birds...wink you're probably OK.


  Hadn't thought about that, but you're right - those chickens would have been all over that "treat"


*Congratulations again Jason!*


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

Dr. Sponenberg is a Professor of genetics and pathobiology at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University and has worked to conserve rare American breeds for thirty years. Internationally known for his work in color genetics, he has authored numerous books and publications. His experience includes that of both an academic and an animal breeder, allowing him to utilize practical as well as theoretical aspects of breed conservation.

If you read his article he talks about revers carmel and the such being possible. leaving large tracks of white!!! Maybe LOL


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## ksalvagno (Feb 7, 2011)

What a cutie!   Congratulations!


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

BTW she yells out mom! She has the cutest bleet, but if you pick her up she literally bleets MooooooooooooooooooooooM!

Its the funniest thing.


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## ksalvagno (Feb 7, 2011)

Isn't having baby goats grand? They are just too much fun.


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## themrslove (Feb 7, 2011)

Oh goodness!  Precious precious baby!!!


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## elevan (Feb 7, 2011)

jason_mazzy said:
			
		

> Dr. Sponenberg is a Professor of genetics and pathobiology at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University and has worked to conserve rare American breeds for thirty years. Internationally known for his work in color genetics, he has authored numerous books and publications. His experience includes that of both an academic and an animal breeder, allowing him to utilize practical as well as theoretical aspects of breed conservation.
> 
> If you read his article he talks about revers carmel and the such being possible. leaving large tracks of white!!! Maybe LOL


Interesting.  Do you have a link? I'd be interested in reading.



> BTW she yells out mom! She has the cutest bleet, but if you pick her up she literally bleets MooooooooooooooooooooooM!
> 
> Its the funniest thing.


Is this accompanied by the tongue sticking way out?    They remind me of KISS when they do that!


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

Yes way way out. MoooooooooooooooooM with her tounge poking out!


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## elevan (Feb 7, 2011)

jason_mazzy said:
			
		

> Yes way way out. MoooooooooooooooooM with her tounge poking out!


You should so get a pic and start a thread on that subject! The pics would be hilarious!    I would but I don't have any that currently do that (until my Daisy kids)


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## mossyStone (Feb 7, 2011)

she is adorable 

congrats!!!!!


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## freemotion (Feb 7, 2011)

How adorable is THAT???  Too cute!


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 7, 2011)

Momma won't drink mollasses water, but she will eat oatmeal with mollasses in it. also the baby will not bottle feed, but mom WILL!!! LOL

So instead of wasting the 3 ounces of colostrum I let mom drink it. hopefully that will put her nutrients back.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Feb 8, 2011)

Is the kid with the doe? Then, I wouldn't worry about bottle feeding unless the kid is not getting enough milk. 

I've never heard of giving a doe molasses water. She doesn't look thin from the pictures, but if she needs some extra energy stop by the feed store and get a bottle of nutridench and a denching gun (if the bottle doesn't have a pump top). That will restore her energy. You can also give some to the kid. Just make sure she has good clean water available at all times along with some goat pellet and hay. That should be sufficient for her needs as she is nursing. 

We feed ours calf manna, also. It is a supplement that helps them keep in better condition while they have kids.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 8, 2011)

greenfamilyfarms said:
			
		

> I've never heard of giving a doe molasses water. She doesn't look thin from the pictures, but if she needs some extra energy stop by the feed store and get a bottle of nutridench and a denching gun (if the bottle doesn't have a pump top). That will restore her energy.


This is a quick energy/iron mix that can be made at home when a goat is off or needed it er and cannot run to feed store.  Very common.

1 part Corn Oil (do not substitute with canola or vegetable oil)
1 part Molasses
1 part Corn Syrup

I add molasses to water during deliveries and after all the time..again very common.  Provides quick energy for them.

I will also mix molasses and baking soda when they are having rumen issues...

So its very common to use molasses with goats.

Glad to hear shes enjoying it with oatmeal!!


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 8, 2011)

Yeah I was surprisd when she turned her nose at the water. but the chickens and ducks loved it!!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 8, 2011)

jason_mazzy said:
			
		

> Yeah I was surprisd when she turned her nose at the water. but the chickens and ducks loved it!!!


Those chickens had a party with the goats molasses water and afterbirth!!!     Big party for them!!!  

  yuk    yuk   yuk

Crazy birds!!!!


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## glenolam (Feb 8, 2011)

Was the molasses water (how bad is it that I always spell it MOLEasses!) warm or cold?  

I woudn't worry if she doesn't drink it, but sometimes if it's warmer it helps.  My doe loved the molasses water warmed right after kidding.


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 8, 2011)

Warm for sure. She just prefers fresh water. I have had troublewith her and mollasses before. But it seems warm oatmeal with it and a lil colostrum worked.


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## lasergrl (Feb 8, 2011)

The mom goat is spotted, so that is where the piebald is coming from.  Look at moms poll and nose, right side on her belly, and right armpit.  White spotting can be expressed in many ways, even a tiny spot on the tip of the tail.  The offspring can inherit the spotting in a more drastic way and I think that is what is being seen here.


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## PattySh (Feb 8, 2011)

Congrats on the pretty little doeling!


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 8, 2011)

mom is heavy black agouti, but I am finding her ears and rump seem to be brown. They have carmel in them so I am wondeirng if she is a black carmel agouti, which would account for the almost white in her. Thus making the child of the carmel buck have a real light carmel and black agouti.


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