# Bullying Herd Queen



## GoatGirl2019 (Nov 20, 2021)

HELP!! I have a situation I've tried to fix, and in 2 years of owning these 2 does, it's only gotten worse. Let me try and explain...
I bought 2 does, sisters, as my first goats. They got along for the most part for the first year. Since that time, it's gone downhill... And FAST! I found out, after about 6 months, that the woman that had them didn't socialize with them at all. As a matter of fact, the only time they SAW a human was once a day when she would feed them. They were 4 months old when I bought them. I couldn't get close to them for almost 2 months!
My alpha doe, Snowflake, has gotten more and more aggressive with Buttons, my other doe. It's beyond what I would consider normal goat behavior. Every chance she gets, she's attacking Buttons. To the point now where Buttons won't even come out of her "room" (I separate them at night in separate stalls) because Snowflake will chase her around the barn. I bred them both last year. Snowflake delivered February 22. Buttons on February 23. And Snowflake actually kidnapped Buttons kids, Buttons then refused them, and I raised them as bottle babies. If it matters any, Snowflake had a buckling and a doeling. Buttons had 2 bucklings.
Is there anything I can do to make Snowflake quit bullying Buttons, or will I forever have 2 separate doe herds??


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## messybun (Nov 20, 2021)

What worked for us was actually introducing more goats. Our new goats had come from a herd of 40 some we were told and were super socialized (one was a bottle baby) they taught our other goats how to behave and when we reintroduced our currently separate herds they did fine with barely any fighting. The big ones taught them how to act like goats instead of brats. Not sure if that would help you at all, especially because if you happen to add the wrong goats it could make it worse. 
Perhaps next time you breed them you can consider keeping one of the babies and selling one of the older does. And of course keep them separated because bottle babies are fun, but probably not what you want to be doing again.


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## Mini Horses (Nov 20, 2021)

Agree, more goats.    It's true.   That stops so much "one on one".


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## Alaskan (Nov 20, 2021)

messybun said:


> What worked for us was actually introducing more goats. Our new goats had come from a herd of 40 some we were told and were super socialized (one was a bottle baby) they taught our other goats how to behave and when we reintroduced our currently separate herds they did fine with barely any fighting. The big ones taught them how to act like goats instead of brats. Not sure if that would help you at all, especially because if you happen to add the wrong goats it could make it worse.
> Perhaps next time you breed them you can consider keeping one of the babies and selling one of the older does. And of course keep them separated because bottle babies are fun, but probably not what you want to be doing again.


X2


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## GoatGirl2019 (Nov 20, 2021)

messybun said:


> What worked for us was actually introducing more goats. Our new goats had come from a herd of 40 some we were told and were super socialized (one was a bottle baby) they taught our other goats how to behave and when we reintroduced our currently separate herds they did fine with barely any fighting. The big ones taught them how to act like goats instead of brats. Not sure if that would help you at all, especially because if you happen to add the wrong goats it could make it worse.
> Perhaps next time you breed them you can consider keeping one of the babies and selling one of the older does. And of course keep them separated because bottle babies are fun, but probably not what you want to be doing again.


I never thought about that! I'll have to try it. Added bonus: MORE GOATS!!! My husband will love that lol.
I actually kept all 4 of the babies born in February. But only 1 was a doeling, so Patches is the only one I can put in with my 2 does. And she is Snowflakes baby, and she is protective over her.
We're actually trying to purchase the entire herd of a local homesteader who has decided to get out of goats. And his 6 does all get along together well.


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## Alaskan (Nov 21, 2021)

GoatGirl2019 said:


> And his 6 does all get along together well.


That sounds great.


I would sell the bucklings.... but I guess they are now wethers?


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## GoatGirl2019 (Nov 22, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> That sounds great.
> 
> 
> I would sell the bucklings.... but I guess they are now wethers?


Actually, they're not. Punky (solid white) is my future breeder (and my bottle baby I fell in love with), Vinnie (black on white) was supposed to go to my brother in law, who unfortunately passed away October 3 of Covid. And Stinkerton (white on black) was to be sold as a breeder as well...... To the gentleman who is now selling his herd and getting out of goats. So, although they are handsome as all get out, they're 9 months old with not too many people around locally who raise dairy goats. I've actually looked into getting them wethered now. My vet won't do it though. 
And now the brown goat, Buttons, that's the one being bullied, I do believe is pregnant. She should have come back into season 2 days ago!


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## Baymule (Nov 22, 2021)

For the longest I castrated the boys (sheep) and named them all Dinner. Then took them to slaughter. Since I discovered auction sale barns and how easy it is to take them to auction, that is what I do. It got darn near impossible to set a slaughter date that isn't a year or more in advance. 

So now I don't castrate, I leave the boys as rams. I wean at 3 months and separate the boys from the girls. Then load them up and take them to auction. I get a check at the window and I'm done. 

It takes awhile to go from your very first sheep/goats/pets to actual livestock. It can be hard to look at the boys as meat for the family, but what better meat for your family than that which you raised? 

I'm very sorry about your brother-in-law. My husband and I had Covid in September, he passed away.


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## GoatGirl2019 (Nov 22, 2021)

Baymule said:


> For the longest I castrated the boys (sheep) and named them all Dinner. Then took them to slaughter. Since I discovered auction sale barns and how easy it is to take them to auction, that is what I do. It got darn near impossible to set a slaughter date that isn't a year or more in advance.
> 
> So now I don't castrate, I leave the boys as rams. I wean at 3 months and separate the boys from the girls. Then load them up and take them to auction. I get a check at the window and I'm done.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the condolences. My mother in law passed away exactly 2 weeks later from Covid. And a little more than a month prior to losing my brother in law, I had to put down my Tennessee Walker, my horse and best friend.
It DOES take a while. My girls were 4 months old when I bought them, and wanted to make sure they were old enough to do well through a pregnancy b4 breeding them at about 18 months. This past kidding season (2021) was my first! Buttons, the goat in my profile picture, is pregnant now, I believe. I bred her 4 weeks ago, and she has not come back into heat.
And please accept my condolences on your husband


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## Baymule (Nov 22, 2021)

That blue eye in my avatar belonged to Joe's Tuff Bars, the love of my life and best buddy. My husband bought him for me as a surprise right after we were married. Snowy white, pink skinned, the only pigment on him was his eyes. Calm, gently, unflappable, he was my baby. Had to put him down August 18, 2020 and I grieved so hard that I've never been able to write his story. He was 32 years old. 

Because I will be selling the farm and moving to a house on 2 acres that my son has, I sold my horses. I found them very good homes, but I sure miss them. I would have never given up Joe. 

I'll take my time, look around and find where I want to be. Then you can bet I'll get another horse or two. I love Tennessee Walkers, I've had several and they are at the top of my list.


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## Alaskan (Nov 22, 2021)

No auction house where I live....  

As to castration....  we would castrate the boys at about a month of age.  We would cut out the testicles.  I find the cutting method causes less pain, and you are over and done.  Of course... way more scrotal sack on a more mature goat.  It can still be done though.  There are many you tube videos on the subject.


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## GoatGirl2019 (Nov 29, 2021)

Baymule said:


> That blue eye in my avatar belonged to Joe's Tuff Bars, the love of my life and best buddy. My husband bought him for me as a surprise right after we were married. Snowy white, pink skinned, the only pigment on him was his eyes. Calm, gently, unflappable, he was my baby. Had to put him down August 18, 2020 and I grieved so hard that I've never been able to write his story. He was 32 years old.
> 
> Because I will be selling the farm and moving to a house on 2 acres that my son has, I sold my horses. I found them very good homes, but I sure miss them. I would have never given up Joe.
> 
> I'll take my time, look around and find where I want to be. Then you can bet I'll get another horse or two. I love Tennessee Walkers, I've had several and they are at the top of my list.


This is my Gypsy. 1st pic- taken about a week b4 she passed. 2nd- The best picture I've ever taken of her. 3rd- Just a picture I love! 4th- Taken of my first ride on her.


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## GoatGirl2019 (Nov 29, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> No auction house where I live....
> 
> As to castration....  we would castrate the boys at about a month of age.  We would cut out the testicles.  I find the cutting method causes less pain, and you are over and done.  Of course... way more scrotal sack on a more mature goat.  It can still be done though.  There are many you tube videos on the subject.


I'll look into that. I'd love to wether them to be able to keep them as pasture mates. They all get along very well!


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## Baymule (Nov 30, 2021)

Gypsy was beautiful!


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## GoatGirl2019 (Dec 1, 2021)

Baymule said:


> Gypsy was beautiful!


Thank you so much. I believe so, too. But I might have been just a little bit biased! lol 🤩😍


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