# Blood in 16 yr old geldings urine



## Dakotasgurl (Dec 28, 2009)

I have a 16 yr old retired show gelding that I got a couple days ago and now he's got blood in his urine. It's not the blood red blood it's like a pastelish almost pink color!!? Does anybody have any ideas? Please post back asap, I am worried for my baby.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 28, 2009)

I would call the vet and have the vet check him out. Blood in the urine is never a good thing.


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## freemotion (Dec 28, 2009)

He probably has a urinary tract infection, treated very simply with antibiotics.  If you can get a urine sample to the vet, you can likely save some time and money.  Have fun with that, though.  The vet will collect it with a cup on a stick, putting fresh shavings down for the gelding to pee in.  Be  careful how you hold the stick, though, he might think it is a whip.  

Meanwhile, make sure he is drinking plenty of water.  Do everything in your power to make his water inviting....clean buckets, water changed often, warm water if he likes it, etc.  Some horses will drink more if you put a few drops of peppermint extract in the water (available with the cooking spices at the grocery store.)


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## ducks4you (Dec 28, 2009)

Please excuse this if it's really blood, BUT, when horses eat straight alfalfa hay, it turns their urine pink.  Just FYI, becuase when i kept my elderly geldings they needed alfalfa to keep their weight on, and I mucked out stalls with pink shavings.


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## Dakotasgurl (Dec 28, 2009)

Thank you so much for all of y'alls help. He isn't eating straight alfalfa hay though.. I've been keeping his water really clean. Someone told me that they sometimes put gatorade in the water, but it had to be a certain color and I forgot what color; but anyways I will try the peppermint extract. Freemotion, do you know about how much the antibiotics might cost? It really doesn't matter 'cause I'll do anything I have to to keep him healthy but just so I could start getting a list of possibilities and prices.  Thanks again.

~Dakotasgurl


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## fadetopurple (Dec 28, 2009)

Just to clarify, did you actually see blood in his urine as it came out, or are you looking at pee spots? It's normal for horses to have a lot of protein in their urine, and it will turn snow/shavings/etc pink as it sits there and reacts with the air. I almost had a heart attack the first time I noticed it, but it's totally normal. 

Actual blood in the urine could be a UTI or bladder stones, among other things.


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## freemotion (Dec 28, 2009)

When I managed a breeding and show stable years ago, I had a great relationship with the vets.  We used SMZ's for UTI's and they were VERY cheap.  They are the same as used for people, but you use 10-12 for the horse and crush them and mix with jelly and use a dosing syringe.  I used to pay something like $10 for a course of treatment, but this was 20 years ago!  You will definitely pay much more now, and I'm not even sure if they are still using SMZ's.  Many bacteria are now resistant and some drugs are rarely used anymore.

The older horses would occasionally get a UTI, and I only knew because they would pee orangey pee on the snow.  They tend to drink less, especially in winter.

For UTI's, NO sugar!  So don't use Gatorade.  The stuff is garbage, anyways, for people or animals.  I am personally prone to UTI's, and I can often knock it out by avoiding all sugar and flour and anything my body perceives as sugar or turns into sugar....potatoes, grains, etc.  I also drink large amounts of water, and use unsweetened 100% cranberry juice (NOT cocktail, available in grocery stores.  This is about $7 per quart, and available in health food stores or in a good grocery store with a decent organic section.)  I dilute it with lots of water and sweeten it with stevia extract.  I don't think this would work with a horse, because you can't get him to drink enough.....you can lead a horse to water, and all that old wisdom!  

Sometimes a horse has a favorite type of bucket.  For example, black rubber is generally disliked by most horses, yet commonly sold for use with horses.  Most horses prefer plastic, and some in my care showed a marked preference for white plastic.  If you are lucky enough to have a horse who indicates this, you can indulge him his whims.


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## Dakotasgurl (Dec 28, 2009)

Well we called the previous owners (one of my friends) and since we don't have a vet yet, she called the vet. Well the vet said it's probably kidney failure due to old age and if not treated soon he could die.  The previous owner said she would take him back and give him all the treatments for us, since we are on a tight budget and they said it would be several thousands of dollars. Thankfully she agreed to give me a younger horse that is 7 and is a retired show horse as well. His name is Peepers and looks just like Dakota.

~Dakotasgurl


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## Dakotasgurl (Dec 28, 2009)

Yes, fadetopurple, I saw blood coming out while he was going.


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## freemotion (Dec 28, 2009)

Old age?  At 16?  What????

Well, that was so nice of them to trade for a younger horse.  Good deal for you, and great that they are willing to get treatment for the gelding.


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## Dakotasgurl (Dec 28, 2009)

Yea only now the vets saying it's a tie up or something like that and she's coming out now.


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## skippacheval (Dec 28, 2009)

Old age at 16.  My retired show horses are still giving lessons at 30 years and love it.  Only little beginners however.  Blood in the urine or blood color can occure from tying up(azoturia)  which if severe would cause kidney failure.  With out a vet exam I don't think I would jump to the kidney faliure conclusion.  Was the vet you talked to an equine vet? Sometimes if there were blister beetles in the alfalfa it can also cause a bloody color in the urine(although with blister beetles there would also be signs of colic.


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## Dakotasgurl (Dec 29, 2009)

We had the vet come out last night at 10:00 and she checked him out and said it was a disease nick named "monday morning disease" because it often occurs when owners haven't rode the horse in a while and go on a long trail ride or something like it. I rode him at walk and trot ONLY and only for an hour. 
T he next day 2 hours and yesterday, before I noticed the blood, 3. I am just glad it was caught before it got severe and he already has less blood. She also said he had cushings disease. He is getting much better already and I am very happy.


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## LauraM (Dec 29, 2009)

Dakotasgurl,

You asked me on another thread to respond on here, so I'll try to help with some information.  Hope you find it useful.

I have a Cushings horse and can give you some help on managing this in your horse, however, from your posts above, I'm guessing you don't know much about tying-up, so I will give a bit of information regarding this, first.  

The condition has several names, including the older one of "Monday Morning Sickness."  But the latest research has shown that this syndrome is actually several different conditions with similar symptoms.  As a result there has been quite a lot of confusion about this in the past as to the cause and the effective treatment.  By various research (including muscle biopsies) it's now known that there are two underlying causes for this condition, and _how it's treated depends on the cause._.

One cause is "Equine Polysaccharide Storage Myopathy, or EPSM.  In this situation (more common to Warmbloods and WB crosses), the horse has a metabolic defect that causes it to store excess glucose in the muscle cells as an abnormal form of glycogen.  The excess amount and abnormal form of the glycogen causes the muscle cell to cease to function and the muscle becomes paralyzed.  The attacks usually follow a period of inactivity and occur early on in the exercise period.  This is the form traditionally known as Monday Morning Disease.  Following an attack, myoglobin and other by-products of resulting from the muscle breakdown appear in the urine, causing a dark color and an odd smell.  Therefore it's important to know that it's not the unfitness of the horse, or the exercise, really, that causes it.  It's a metabolic abnormality and would occur regardless of how hard a horse was worked.

If a blood sample is taken, it will show high levels of certain muscle enzymes (CPK, SKH, and AST) since these will stay in the blood for quite some time after an attack, even when the horse is rested, though a definitive test is a muscle biopsy.  

The treatment is to supply energy to the horse in the form of fat, NOT grains, which are high in sugars.  Also, keeping a horse out in a pasture rather than stall rest is recommended since gentle, continuous exercise is beneficial.

The second cause of this syndrome is "Recurrent Exertional Rhabdomyolosis" or, RER.  RER can by acute, sporadic or chronic, depending on how often the attacks occur.  This situation (more common to TBs, STB, Arabs and QHs) also occurs during exercise, but unlike EPSM, it happens to fit horses and waits till AFTER the horse is warmed up or has been working for a while.  While the same muscle enzymes are present in the blood, they will show lower levels than the EPSM horse and thus the myoglobin is less likely to appear in the urine.  RER is caused by an abnormality in the way the muscle cells regulate intercellular calcium (the way muscles contract is to release calcium ions).  It has nothing to do with how MUCH calcium a horse has,.....it has to do with how the cells USE the calcium.  Stress and excitement can aggravate the symptoms.   A muscle biopsy is a definitive test for this, also.

The treatment for this is again reducing carbohydrates (sugars) as much as possible, as with EPSM, however, one must should also add extra magnesium (release of magnesium ions relaxes the muscles and works in conjunction of the release of calcium ions for the contractions of muscles) to aid in the relaxing of the muscle contractions as the horse moves and works along with B vitamins to alleviate stress and anxiety (which causes tenseness).   Minimizing stress and anxiety by desensitizing them to exciting stimuli is also helpful.  

One last thing that can cause it is not a metabolic syndrome, but is worth mentioning, is Over-exertion Rhabdomyolosis.  Horses that are over-worked for their level of fitness to the point of exhaustion can tie-up, too.  This form causes extreme muscle damage and there are tears in the junction between the myofilaments of the muscle cells.  In these cases, the recovery can be quite long, though most respond to rest and a gradual return to work.  

Now, as to the Cushings,.....my fingers are tired and I need to eat dinner, so I'll be back a bit later to give you what I can about Cushings.


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## Dakotasgurl (Dec 29, 2009)

Thank you so much for alll that veeerrrrrrrryyy useful information. The vet gave us several things, bute paste, a powder, and 1 shot(I'll have to go to the barn and look up the names). Dakota has gotten sooooo much better even after less then 24 hours of the treatment.


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## LauraM (Dec 29, 2009)

I'm assuming that with the Cushings, your horse's tying-up was caused by EPSM, not RER.  But you should ask your vet about it.  

You need to begin eliminating all simple carbs as much as possible from your horse's diet, anyway, because of the Cushings.  If you give a list of what he's being fed now, we can take a look at what might need to be adjusted.

The cereal grains (oats, corn, barley) are very very high in simple carbs (sugars) and he should no longer be fed anything with those in it.  If he needs weight or needs help maintaining his weight, he should be fed fat sources, like rice bran, whole flax seed, BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) beet pulp, etc.  These things are much more efficient for weight gain, anyway, than grains are.  Grains increase energy (usually giving the horse MUCH more energy than the average owner wants, lol), and are the main cause of "hot" behavior in horses (think of kids with a "sugar high").  Fats do not cause "hot" behavior but do a much better job of keeping weight on a horse.

Grains = more energy

Fats = more weight.

The single most critical thing in dealing with a Cushings horse is the diet.  

1)  Get rid of as much simple carbs as possible.  

2)  Increase quality protein (Cushings decreases a horse's absorption and ability to metabolize protein) by using a ration balancer in place of grains.  

3)  Increase the magnesium in the diet until he is getting a total of 20 grams of actual magnesium per day.  Magnesium increases the cells' ability to metabolize sugars.  There are several sources of magnesium available for horses;  let me know if you need a few.

Here are some informational articles you might find helpful:

All About Magnesium 

Equine Cushings and Cushings-Like Syndrome 

Fats:  More than an Energy Supply 

Diet Recommendations for Equine Cushings and Cushings-Like-Syndrome, AKA Insulin Resistance 

Let me know if you have any questions about these articles.  Dr. Worth, the author, is a friend of mine and if I cannot clarify something, I can call her and ask her.


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