# I can't count!



## SkyWarrior (Apr 22, 2015)

I am bad at math even with my math minor.  2 goats equals 19.  Or at least that's the number I have now.  I THOUGHT I had 15.  But then I did a nose count.

Heidi 
Belle
Annie
Delilah
Blaze

Wingnut
Ginger
Mocha
Frost
Cinnamon

Nutmeg
Galadriel
Angus
Ragnar
Rollo

Spectre
Bison
Oreo
Skittles

Oh carp.  Seriously?


----------



## Pearce Pastures (Apr 23, 2015)

LOL I did the same last week.  Someone asked me how many goats we currently had...Ummmmm...lemme see...16 at the moment....clearly NOT enough if you ask me.

Lily
Bluebell
Pumpkin
Luna
Stella
Yonnie
Geronimo
Zeus
Ace
Gwen
Ruthie
Temple
Coby
Andy
Derek
Blackie


----------



## Hens and Roos (Apr 23, 2015)

funny how quick one loses track of the numbers! 1 equals 8 for us


----------



## samssimonsays (Apr 23, 2015)

Hey same goes for rabbit math Bahahaha!


----------



## Southern by choice (Apr 23, 2015)

We did the same thing... I had no idea how many we had... counted and we had ....

*41*   

We will be down to 20 soon though!  _or so._
We are taking the majority of our "cut" bucklings and putting them out on pasture to raise for freezer meat.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Apr 23, 2015)

I counted too - 34!  No wonder my feed bill is so high..  Anybody wanna adopt a goat or 12?


----------



## samssimonsays (Apr 24, 2015)

frustratedearthmother said:


> I counted too - 34!  No wonder my feed bill is so high..  Anybody wanna adopt a goat or 12?


I would bahahhaa but not close enough to you


----------



## Ridgetop (Apr 27, 2015)

I am so glad to hear about all your goats.  I thought _we_ had the only magic duplicating goats.  My son, Carl, had a beautiful herd of laManchas that he intended to show in open after graduation from 4-H.  He ended up selling the entire herd two months after starting college because he realized he couldn't keep up on milking etc even when college was only 20 miles away.  One person bought all we had.  The previous kidding season almost every doe had twins or triplets - mostly does - It took 2 trailers, and we loaded over 100 goats!  Those were just the LaManchas.  We still had Andy's Nubians and the Boers.  LOL

Goats are so wonderful - you can't have just one . . . or two . . . or . . . .


----------



## SheepGirl (Apr 27, 2015)

Lol I have 19 sheep buttttt I want moreeeeee!

Ciqala
Ali
Lady Gaga
Katy Perry
Rosie
Bella
Phoibe
Elektra
Chevy
Odysseus
Pansy
Poppy
Hyacinth
Dahlia
Daisy
Petunia
Ivy
Clover
Yarrow

And my goat-goat.


----------



## SkyWarrior (Apr 27, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> We did the same thing... I had no idea how many we had... counted and we had ....
> 
> *41*
> 
> ...



Yeah, we have 5 wethers that are going to freezer camp this year.  But the cost of feeding them is insane with the price of hay.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Apr 28, 2015)

SkyWarrior said:


> Yeah, we have 5 wethers that are going to freezer camp this year.  But the cost of feeding them is insane with the price of hay.



With Nigerians, it would make no sense at all when you can sell for $100 at 10 weeks.
If you fed him for 18 months to eat, you wouldn't have $100 worth.


----------



## Southern by choice (Apr 28, 2015)

We don't "feed" ours ... at this time they can live off the land. We sell them at 40-45 lbs. on the hoof. Or we eat them.


----------



## jodief100 (Apr 28, 2015)

Someone asked how many we have.  I realized I am not sure.  somewhere around 90..... I think.   
I feel awful.  I used to count every night to make sure they all got back.  Now I don't even know how many I have.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Apr 28, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> We don't "feed" ours ... at this time they can live off the land. We sell them at 40-45 lbs. on the hoof. Or we eat them.


Doesn't matter if you feed them or not
Still not $100 worth of meat


----------



## kyla mire (Apr 28, 2015)

I have 11 now n want more 
Lol momma
Daisy 
Baby 
Dee Dee
Socks
Boots 
Lucy
Lola
Walls
Horton
Brownie


----------



## Southern by choice (Apr 28, 2015)

I am not sure what you mean.

For us I rather them go for food then off somewhere and end up relocated over and over. I see it all the time people get a wether then as they grow their herd they can't see feeding a useless animal and they sell it and it goes on and on.
We have a good deal of ethnic customers that want small goats.
For us having a buck year it is great as I don't need to spend time scheduling appointments and all that goes with it. I can cut them, grow them and 2-3x a week have someone drop by and want a goat.
We never have enough goats for the market here.

Not for everyone but works for us. We just don't get attached.
Plus we like goat meat. Young tender goat is


----------



## samssimonsays (Apr 28, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> I am not sure what you mean.
> 
> For us I rather them go for food then off somewhere and end up relocated over and over. I see it all the time people get a wether then as they grow their herd they can't see feeding a useless animal and they sell it and it goes on and on.
> We have a good deal of ethnic customers that want small goats.
> ...



I agree... I have had people want 4-h rabbits from me so I sell cheaper then I find them advertised for sale for twice as much or they are neglected or abused. I do not eat rabbit, I am also not against it, but I would much rather see them in the freezer than see them go somewhere they will suffer or be tormented. I can at least use the meat instead of them being mistreated and passed around which is not fair or healthy for the animal.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Apr 28, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> I am not sure what you mean.
> 
> For us I rather them go for food then off somewhere and end up relocated over and over. I see it all the time people get a wether then as they grow their herd they can't see feeding a useless animal and they sell it and it goes on and on.
> We have a good deal of ethnic customers that want small goats.
> ...



Well first off, I don't care if people use goats for food or not.  If someone wanted to pay me $100 for a 10 week old and eat it, I have no issues with that.

And what I mean is that why would I want to keep one for 18 months and he would only be worth $100 then for meat, when I can sell him at 10 weeks old for $100 ?  Doesn't seem practical to me. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't do this, if that's what you want to do.  

Another thing, I have not experienced what you are saying about people determining that wethers are useless animals and there being relocated over and over.

In the 6 years we have been selling goats, I only know of one occasion where my wether buyers got rid of the goats and that's because they moved out of state.
Most of my wether buyers don't want a herd, they just want a couple of pets.
And, I never have enough goats for the market here either.

On the contrary, intact bucks are more prone to being relocated over and over.   That's why I will never sell another buck on Craigs List.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Apr 28, 2015)

Samantha drawz said:


> I agree... I have had people want 4-h rabbits from me so I sell cheaper then I find them advertised for sale for twice as much or they are neglected or abused. I do not eat rabbit, I am also not against it, but I would much rather see them in the freezer than see them go somewhere they will suffer or be tormented. I can at least use the meat instead of them being mistreated and passed around which is not fair or healthy for the animal.



I would respectfully suggest that you are comparing apples to oranges.
In the city of Raleigh NC which is the area I live, people are allowed two miniature goats on a half acre lot.
I get a lot of recommendations from my vet who is a professor at the vet school at NC State in Raleigh.  Plus, I screen my buyers carefully

This is two of the  more suffering ,tormented , mistreated goats that I have sold.
By the way, they are dressed up for Halloween.


----------



## BrownSheep (Apr 28, 2015)

Currently we are at 46 (I think)( not counting lambs or the butcher boys from last year that are headed out this week)

I very rarely have the exact number of sheep down, but can generally eyeball and look at faces to tell whose there and who isn't ...My dad always says we've probably lost a couple out in the desert and don't even know it. 

Also, yaks multiply as well. Started with a cow calf pair four years ago. Now up to 12 and looking for some more.


----------



## Southern by choice (Apr 28, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> Well first off, I don't care if people use goats for food or not.  If someone wanted to pay me $100 for a 10 week old and eat it, I have no issues with that.
> 
> And what I mean is that why would I want to keep one for 18 months and he would only be worth $100 then for meat, when I can sell him at 10 weeks old for $100 ?  Doesn't seem practical to me. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't do this, if that's what you want to do.
> 
> ...



Most of the larger breeders (and my mentors) also do not sell wethers for the very reason of better in the freezer than who knows what. We do  keep a few around in case someone wants a buck but doesn't want 2 and needs a companion and things like that but when they go out on the land and just eat it is great.
I don't recommend wethers in general.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Apr 28, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> Most of the larger breeders (and my mentors) also do not sell wethers for the very reason of better in the freezer than who knows what. We do  keep a few around in case someone wants a buck but doesn't want 2 and needs a companion and things like that but when they go out on the land and just eat it is great.
> I don't recommend wethers in general.



If they don't sell wethers because of "who knows what" do they sell bucks?  Do they sell does?  Or, do they know that people that buy them are taking them to their "forever home"?

Your mentors may not sell wethers.  But I don't know what you base the statement "most of the larger breeders"  don't sell wethers on.

At least as far as Nigerian Dwarf breeders which was the basis of my comments.

Exactly who would you consider to be a "larger breeder"?.  Are you referring to larger Nigerian Breeders around this local area?

Now, standard goats that's a different story.  Not a pet market for them like there is for Nigerians in the Raleigh area.

Most standard dairy goat breeders that I know of around here don't disbud or castrate their excess males.  They take them to the sale barn in Smithfield when they are weaned.

Right now they are selling really good for about $2.50 per pound.  But, I can sell a 20lb Nigerian wether for $100.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Apr 28, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> With Nigerians, it would make no sense at all when you can sell for $100 at 10 weeks.
> If you fed him for 18 months to eat, you wouldn't have $100 worth.



Sorry Sky Warrior, when I made this comment *to you*
I didn't realize I would spark a debate with someone else. 
And I'm at 38 goats now last head count


----------



## Southern by choice (Apr 28, 2015)

No not Nigie breeders... I only do a few Nigies they aren't my focus. And I wasn't debating at all.


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Apr 28, 2015)

I can't even imagine having over 100 @Ridgetop!   When I was deep into showing pygmy goats I topped 50 for awhile...until I counted them, lol.  My strategy for showing was to always take a few extra to each show to sell - works really well if you can hang a lot of blue ribbons on your pen!  Selling a goat or two at each show would pay entry fees, gas and motel rooms.  Sometimes I miss those days and sometimes I wonder how I ever did it!


----------



## OneFineAcre (Apr 28, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> No not Nigie breeders... I only do a few Nigies they aren't my focus. And I wasn't debating at all.



Well my comment was on the math with Nigerian wethers and nothing really to debate
It's a no brainer

Most large breeders of standard dairy goats that I know in this area sell their weaned bucklings with all of their equipment at auction, if they even wait until they are weaned


----------



## norseofcourse (Apr 28, 2015)

I started out with 2 sheep a little over two years ago.

This spring I hit double digits - I now have ten!!!   It might not sound like a lot but four years ago I would have never guessed I'd have ten sheep.  The plan is to sell all the lambs and go back down to 5 for the winter again, and repeat with lambs again next spring!


----------



## BlessedWithGoats (Apr 28, 2015)

I'm at four on the ground currently... plus however many Cookie and Latte have tucked away inside! 

Latte
Cookie
Basil
Bergamot


----------



## SkyWarrior (Apr 29, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> Sorry Sky Warrior, when I made this comment *to you*
> I didn't realize I would spark a debate with someone else.
> And I'm at 38 goats now last head count



Heh.  Well, if  you buy goat meat at the store around here, I believe it costs about $20/lb.   Yes, you read right.

I can get enough meat off the wethers to warrant that.  I don't sell wethers because, quite honestly, they're meat on the hoof.  And people won't buy them for more than $50, if that. My land is pretty weird and has a road to my neighbor's running through it. It is all mountainous and we get plenty of predators.  We're going to hopefully come up with a better grazing scheme, but right now it's not feasible.


----------



## SkyWarrior (Apr 29, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> We don't "feed" ours ... at this time they can live off the land. We sell them at 40-45 lbs. on the hoof. Or we eat them.



I'd love to do this, but right now, it's not feasible.


----------



## SkyWarrior (Apr 29, 2015)

jodief100 said:


> Someone asked how many we have.  I realized I am not sure.  somewhere around 90..... I think.
> I feel awful.  I used to count every night to make sure they all got back.  Now I don't even know how many I have.


----------



## samssimonsays (Apr 29, 2015)

OneFineAcre said:


> I would respectfully suggest that you are comparing apples to oranges.
> In the city of Raleigh NC which is the area I live, people are allowed two miniature goats on a half acre lot.
> I get a lot of recommendations from my vet who is a professor at the vet school at NC State in Raleigh.  Plus, I screen my buyers carefully
> 
> ...



In my area, a rural area, there are not many rules on goats. Horses, yes. Goats, not so much. Or rabbits. People here buy them as pets and "breed" them as pets and sell for profit and do not care. Many are confiscated or end up starving in muddy, nasty pens with no food or water up to their knees in feces. I have seen abused goats in my area and even people who have screened well for homes have had a bad outcome. I screen for rabbit homes as well as puppy homes and have for many years. Never a goat but they can be subjected to neglect and abuse the same as any other animal. I have seen so many bought as Easter gifts along with Lambs, rabbits and chicks that end up dead or in horrific conditions. My area is all I speak of as I can not speak for any other. I had nothing against what you said, as I too would much rather the money from an animal alive than dead BUT I also agree with Southern as if I do not get that money, I am ok as they will be used. I also referred to I would rather see them in the freezer as my way of saying if I do not find a suitable home for them I would rather they be in the freezer than in a potentially bad situation. I obviously know not everyone who buys will be a bad situation and my post was completely taken wrong.


----------



## Ridgetop (May 1, 2015)

I have to agree with Southern and Samantha about selling for meat rather than pets.  I have done both, and with goats, lambs, and rabbits.  A lot of the pet homes returned for a second pet rabbit  because they did not follow directions and their children or dogs killed the bunny.  I had a great business at Valentines Day, Easter, etc. selling pet bunnies.  After the first year, I bred for litters 2 weeks apart so I had more cute bunnies to sell when these people returned for a replacement.  I made money but I could only do it for 4 years before I couldn't take selling those poor bunnies and knowing that half would end up dead in a few weeks.  At least selling for meat they died quick.  Selling for meat I also get return business so it is a win win for me. 

Onefineacre: You are lucky to have a good market for pets in your area.  Not everyone has that luxury.  I sell my lambs and kids for meat, but I have large meat and dairy animals.  I did what you talked about, for the ethnic market I got more money for a buck kid, not disbudded or castrated.  I sold at the auction at 2 months.  When it comes to pets I never do it anymore.  I sold a lamb once to a family who wanted a pet for the children and to cut the grass.  I was specific that the sheep would graze but needed hay as well.  3 months later the people wanted me to buy her back.  Not take her back, but buy her back.  They didn't want to feed her hay and when they turned her loose to graze _in their backyard_ she ate the flowers instead of the big nasty weeds.  They wanted me to pay them the original purchase price, plus the price of the halter they bought for her, and the price of the hay they had fed her!  Oh yes, they wanted me to pick her up from their house too!  Another family I gave a doe kid to as a pet for her son.  They claimed not to have any money and were in my 4-H club.  After they got the goat, they put her in a show  and when she didn't win told everyone I had sold them a lousy show goat.  You read what I wrote about the bunnies.  I can tell you other stories too.  For every pet in a good home there is one that is dumped or mistreated. You have only to visit your local animal shelter to know this.  This is why I personally don't sell pets, only terminal club animals or freezer animals.  Adult breeding animals are sold at the livestock auction so I don't have to wonder.

Here in California goats are going for $3.50 lb. which would make a 50lb wether worth about $175.00.  There is a big ethnic market here for goat meat too.  Southern puts her wethers out on grass, their keep costs her nothing and she sells 2 ior 3 a week.  Good profit and little work once they are out on grass.  Good going Southern.  No feed bill and they are paying the way for their mamas and daddy.  Everyone of us who sells animals has to think of the bottom line.  My bottom line is always in the red - hay here runs $20 a bale.  Back in the day, hay was $7 a bale and we had a lot of dairy goats, sheep, replacement heifers, hogs, and raised calves on the goat milk.  We never made a lot of money, probably never broke even.  Most of the animals were used as 4-H project animals. Our kids went to the mall once a year at Christmas and we only live about 7 miles away from 2 malls!  They spent their time working with their animals, in 4-H activities, doing homework, sports teams, riding their ponies, and moving manure.  The cost of our animals was worth every penny because it brought us together as a family and instilled a work ethic in our kids that they adhere to as adults.    

We keep sheep now because feeding them is cheaper than paying a crew $3000.00 a year to do the 200 foot fire clearances around my house and barns required by the fire department.  We live at the top of a ridge and the slope is about 60 degrees.  We can't but the brush but the sheep take it to the ground.  We are livestock people and having a few animals around is peaceful.  We sell freezer lambs.  It doesn't make a profit but helps on the feed bill.  I wish we had pasture.  This year we are going to send the wool out to be processed and see about selling wool to handspinners.  Every little bit helps.

Each part of the country we are in has a different market for our product.  Some don't want to sell for meat, others don't want to sell pets.  Some people have grass, others it's all carry feed.  For all of us it is a lot of work with livestock that we enjoy.  We have to be comfortable with our own choices, not with anyone else's.


----------

