# Another litter expected too soon



## mamabun (Jan 31, 2017)

Kits are now 4 weeks old and eating pellets and lettuce. Matilda is fat and behaving like she is going to deliver another batch today or within the next 2 days. Yesterday I removed the kits from her and she became aggressive and the kits tried any way to get back into the cage to be with her. I gave in and put the kits back in the cage with Matilda but my concern is that new kits will arrive and these kits can't be in the same cage when the new ones come. Should I proceed with removing the kits outside the cage so she can prepare for the new litter in peace? She doesn't seem interested in feeding the kits anymore so weaning milk supply isn't the issue just weanng from mother contact is an issue. Please help I am stumped what to do.


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## Latestarter (Jan 31, 2017)

@Bunnylady @DutchBunny03 @samssimonsays @promiseacres @Pastor Dave


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## promiseacres (Jan 31, 2017)

When is she due? I start removing the kits 8 hours a day as my does all seem to need a break at around 6 weeks. Maybe you could start that and hope she has the new litter while they aren't with her. Then just keep them separately after.


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## mamabun (Jan 31, 2017)

promiseacres said:


> When is she due? I start removing the kits 8 hours a day as my does all seem to need a break at around 6 weeks. Maybe you could start that and hope she has the new litter while they aren't with her. Then just keep them separately after.


Thank you.


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## Pastor Dave (Feb 1, 2017)

4 weeks is early, but in the wild it is when it happens.
I do 5 weeks to give them and the doe that extra week.
I even give her a few days after before breeding her again.

If you have a doe ready to kindle in two days, the 4 week old kits have to be moved. I believe she would definitely kill them if she felt they threatened the new litter. If they tried to nurse and there is new ones, I think there would be hell to pay.

I haven't had this problem before because my breeding is all managed and controlled. The big industrial rabbitries will breed the doe as soon as she kindle to keep up productivity and have that next litter as soon as current one is 4 weeks. This hurts the doe's health and shortens her life. She will be very productive for a short couple years, but will die much sooner.

I had to repost this because my phone evidently didn't post it yesterday. I had to edit it too because it dropped the last parts off the draft copy. Hope this helps.


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## mamabun (Feb 1, 2017)

Pastor Dave said:


> 4 weeks is early, but in the wild it is when it happens.
> I do 5 weeks to give them and the doe that extra week.
> I even give her a few days after before breeding her again.
> 
> ...



I haven't received a lot of feedback so I went with my gutfeeling and removed the kits last night. This was my fear that she would protect a new litter by killing these kits. I am a new bunny owner and am still learning. My female jumped the divider I have separating him and her as this was unexpected I surely didn't want her bred only a day after giving birth, so this was indeed an unplanned pregnancy. 
Thank you Pastor Dave, this was helpful as you confirmed my feelings of what should be done.


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## mamabun (Feb 1, 2017)

promiseacres said:


> When is she due? I start removing the kits 8 hours a day as my does all seem to need a break at around 6 weeks. Maybe you could start that and hope she has the new litter while they aren't with her. Then just keep them separately after.


I believe she will be due either tonight or tomorrow. I removed the kts last night and they are all doing very well this morning; eating and playing.  Thank you for your help Promiseacres.


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## Pastor Dave (Feb 1, 2017)

@mamabun 
The litter will do fine. Both of them
If you have more questions, there are plenty of knowledgeable rabbit folks on here. So, don't hesitate to ask.
Are you doing pets, meat, fur, or fiber?
Good luck in your endeavors!


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## DutchBunny03 (Feb 2, 2017)

Good thinking. The kits are physically ready to eat exclusively solid food, just do not give them any greens until they are at least 5 months old. In the future, try to give the kits at least 6 weeks with the dam, and wait as long as possible before rebreeding. This gives the dam a longer breeding span, and improves her overall health. Hope your new kits are great!


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## DutchBunny03 (Feb 2, 2017)

@Pastor Dave , 5 weeks isn't long enough with the dam under normal conditions. Though the kits may technically be weaned by then, some of them might not be. The dam also still has a milk supply longer than that, so taking them out suddenly or too early isn't good for her, either. I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your rabbits, just trying to give you a couple tips.


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## Pastor Dave (Feb 2, 2017)

I appreciate the tips. I never had any problems with my litters weaning at 4 weeks back when we raised them in the 80's and 90's. I left for college in '93 and my mom kept at it on a little smaller scale until '97. Back then, we didn't have Internet or sites like this to learn from. My uncle taught us that had raised them through the 60's to early 90's. Or we learned in 4-H and at the co-op or feed store. Word of mouth and a phone call to a contact made at a show or fair. It is nice to have a site like this with so many knowledgeable folks.

I started back up again in August, 2015. I wean at 5 weeks, and rebreed my does a few days after that to give her a little more time off. The bunnies and does literally get 10 more days than the ways we did it back in the day. My does are so used to this schedule that they act ready to be done with the litter at 3-1/2 or 4 weeks. I haven't had any problems with my meat pens getting to 5lbs. by 10 weeks and then I butcher. My does all seem healthy, but I have had one case of mastitis in the last year and a half. It occurred when her milk came in however, and not because the litter had been removed. I had to foster her litter. I keep penicillin on hand, and she got her treatment, waited a month after treatment and bred her. No problems since.

I haven't bred for show rabbits. I do have a pedigreed pair of NZW though. I realize there are really two different philosophies between show breeding and meat breeding. Show breeders like to keep a litter with the doe 8 weeks and allow the bunnies to become great specimens and show quality. When I keep one back to become a breeder, they are as show quality by 10 weeks as ones weaned at 8 weeks. They have remained healthy too. It has been very rare that I have a problem with a bunny weaned at 5 weeks. My goal us to get them to weight by 10 weeks and if they stay with mom too long, they just don't make weight like I need them to.

I find nothing wrong with the method of leaving them in longer for the purpose of show or selling. I appreciate your advice. Thanks, Dave


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## DutchBunny03 (Feb 6, 2017)

You are way more experienced than I am, so you probably know more. I personally haven't had any problems, since i leave them with the dam so long(I don't need to meet any production schedules, so I'm in no hurry), but know people who have had problems, and it's not pretty. Sometimes, you can lose an entire litter if they are removed too early, but that happens most in cases when they are removed almost as soon as they leave the nestbox. Leaving a few days in between is a great practice. Overlapping works, or so I've heard, but i don't want to stress my does. My goal isn't meat or quantity of rabbits, its quality of rabbits(+ the fact that i have very little space). Different goals need different methods, and this is a great example of that. 
Breeding for show can be frustrating in breeds such as English Spot, Dutch, Harlequin, and other breeds with complex color patterns but not so bad with breeds such as NZs. When you have a good rabbit, and chances are yours are great, showing is a lot of fun. Probably the best aspect of showing is talking and exchanging information with other breeders. Rabbit swaps are also great. Winning isn't everything.


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## Tale of Tails Rabbitry (Mar 1, 2018)

DutchBunny03 said:


> ...just do not give them any greens until they are at least 5 months old.



I have read that advice many times but "do not give _any_ greens" is a bit of an overstatement, I think. I start giving mine some greens as soon as they are interested, usually around 5 weeks...I just do not give them much about three to five leaves in total to each choosing from: cilantro, dandelion leaves, violet leaves, strawberry leaves, spring mixes, and clover (all organic). Never had a problem yet.

Perhaps it is better to say that they should not be given greens as the mainstay of their diet until the are older or that greens can be given as treats.


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