# Starting a dairy?



## babsbag (Mar 26, 2013)

I know there must be people out there as crazy as I am so will someone who isn't crazy please convince me that at the age of 54 I shouldn't want to open a Grade B dairy. Especially I shouldn't want to try and do this in California, the great state of over regulations. I have been thinking about this for 4 years and after a life changing event in my husbands life he is finally on board with my crazy idea and now I am getting cold feet. 

Am I crazy?


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## GLENMAR (Mar 26, 2013)

Go for it! You could always sell later or hire someone to take over.


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## Catahoula (Mar 26, 2013)

If you have the time, energy and resources...go for it. I think it is wonderful to have dreams...whether you have cold feet or not. Keep dreaming and keep making your dreams happening. This is how we should all live. 54 is YOUNG!


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## Mamaboid (Mar 27, 2013)

Go for it.  I would much rather regret that something I tried didn't work, than regret never trying it.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 27, 2013)

*This is what I want to do too! We should help each other figure stuff out!!! *


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## Oakroot (Mar 27, 2013)

I heard from someone who was doing this that the shell of the diary building was going to cost them 100 grand not costing equipment or any of the legal stuff. Best of luck!


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## ragdollcatlady (Mar 27, 2013)

Well...There is that portable dairy facility for sale (in Paso Robles I think??)....That would give you the facilities part.....


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## babsbag (Mar 27, 2013)

ragdollcatlady said:
			
		

> Well...There is that portable dairy facility for sale (in Paso Robles I think??)....That would give you the facilities part.....


I called them about that facility. A very interesting idea, but after finding that they have no production equipment in it we decided it was way out of line price wise. 

Fortunaltey we have the skill set to build it ourselves so not counting permits and fees we are thinking less than 50,000. We would probably hire someone to do the slab foundation, but the rest we could do. We have thought of doing cinder block and our neighbor will help with that. But the cheaper option may be wood frame on a cement curb.

 I already own a milking machine that will do until I get something bigger, I have a welder and freinds that weld that could make the stanchions. I would start small, about 15 goats. I have seen combo coolers, pastuerizers, and vats for 12,000.00. I want to do a Grade B dairy for now and and make feta, chevre, and cheese truffles to start. Then build the cheese cave and make aged cheeses. If I make the cheese within 2 hours of milking I don't have to have the expensive coolers and bulk tanks. The main requirements for the cheese making part is stainless steel sinks, racks, pots, etc. And of course cement floors and good drains, etc. Logical stuff for the most part. I have been making cheese and yogurt for a few years so I have SOME idea of what I am doing.  

These are my biggest concerns:
1. The cost of the waste water treatment
2. The cost of the use permit from the county for the cheese producing plant
3. The 250.00 a quarter dairy inspection fee.
4. marketing...I am a lousy salesman, but my DH is awesome and willing.
5. Packaging, I have no idea how to package cheese. 

And now a state inspector tells me that they might not be issuing licenses for Grade B dairies, that would certainly end this idea for now. One of the requirements for a Grade A is to house the animals 100 feet from the milking parlor, I just don't have that much useable space. 

Thank you all for the encouragement. 

WMR. are you sure you don't want to move to northern CA and get out of that desert. I am thinking we could have lots of fun together; and our dogs already know each other 

There is land near me that will be for sale soon and I could use a partner that has a "can do" attitude. I want to do the educational center too; and have a community garden and farm and also teach canning and soap making. We just fit together.   Come on up.


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## michickenwrangler (Mar 27, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> ragdollcatlady said:
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Seeing your signature says that you are on 5 acres, that really is not enough land for what you plan on doing. I live in the "dairy belt" of Michigan and am familiar with our state's regulations. Granted, California may be different, but I'm sure some of the things are the same.

a) Separate driveway (if you are doing cheese on site, you may not have to have this)
b) Waste water for parlor
c) Waste water for animals (most dairies around here have open pits and spray them back on hayfields in spring)
d) Lighting. Light bulbs will have to be placed every so many feet
e) Working bathroom in milking parlor
f) Zoning (if you have to rezone as commerical or industrial, it will cost money)
g) Max amount of animals for 5 acres may not allow you to have enough to be profitable

There was a restaurant in the village that was a chicken place/hatchery since the 1930s. The excess chickens from the hatchery were raised up for meat for the restaurant, but in the 1970s, it was too hard to comply with health dept regulations so the hatchery shut down. Ie. hatchery was too close to the restaurant, slaughtering facilities had to be separate w/ separate inspection and licensing, etc...

What about feed for the animals? With dairy facilities taking up a lot of your space, could you grow enough food to support them? How much is hay and grain costing where you are? Nearly all the dairies here grow their own hay & corn.

What about kids? How will they be fed? What do you plan to do with the males & extra females? Breeding? Keep a buck on site or AI? 

Sanitation. This will involve much more than sloshing some lines in soapy water.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but there is a lot to it and I think it will cost you far more to start and operate than you think. I could never do it on my 5 acres. Although I am zoned industrial--still haven't figured out why, I think there was a sawmill here in the 1930s (property actually used to be owned by the people who owned the hatchery) but I digress.

There are going to be a lot of little regulations and necessities that crop up. And they will cost money.

Things are cheaper here in Michigan than in California and a friend built a 100 x 60 pole barn for $60,000 for a riding arena, and that was with wiring and everything (no cement slab, just sand and dirt footing).  You will easily spend over $100,000 to get this dream realized. If you have it, cool. Go for it, I envy you. But I think this venture will cost far more than you're planning on.


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## babsbag (Mar 27, 2013)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Seeing your signature says that you are on 5 acres, that really is not enough land for what you plan on doing. I live in the "dairy belt" of Michigan and am familiar with our state's regulations. Granted, California may be different, but I'm sure some of the things are the same.
> 
> a) Separate driveway (if you are doing cheese on site, you may not have to have this)
> b) Waste water for parlor
> ...


I appreciate all the insight. The waste water is probably my biggest worry and I haven't quite figured out who to call in our county. I am zoned for a dairy with a use permit, and also for the production plant if I own the goats myself. I can legally have 30 goats on my land and currently have 21, some of those are boers. I feed all my goats alfalfa as they are on dry lot pretty much all of the time. Kids will be sold at 2 weeks of age, and I have an outlet for the bucklings already. I do have 2 bucks, boer and alpine already and many friends with goats as well. All of our herds are tested for CL and CAE so we don't mind sharing stud service. I also have someone who will teach me to do AI and access to a tank. I already have the goat operation, I just need a way to do something with the milk. I can only make so much soap. I would have to test for TB and Brucellosis yearly which would be an added expense, but other than that the goat cost shouldn't change much.

The Grade B dairy requirements are much less than grade A. I am also trying to buy the adjacent land( waiting for it to get out of probate), in which case I would move my goat housing and maybe someday try for the grade A dairy.

I haven't seen anything on a separate driveway, but I may have to pave it.

As far as the acutal building goes, I think our biggest advantage is the ability to do all the work ourselves. I am not afraid of things like having to add a bathroom as we have built an entire house, and I know that I can get a toilet and a sink for cheap or free. If they require that, and they may, I would have to put in another septic tank, but the leach field is downhill and very accessible from where we would build. We have the backhoe to dig the hole for the tank and we would do the connections. My property is also zoned for a second residence so hopefully they won't balk too much at another toilet. 

I am sure the costs will be higher, they always are. But I am looking to milk 2-4 goats at a time for now and we would plan the design to be expandable in the future if it warrants it. 

The more I justify this to BYH the more I want to do it. Now I just need to write a business plan.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 27, 2013)

License?  I don't need no stinking license!!!

I will just continue to sell my products for "pet consumption only" 

Rock on bootleg milk and cheese!!!!


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## babsbag (Mar 27, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> License?  I don't need no stinking license!!!
> 
> I will just continue to sell my products for "pet consumption only"
> 
> Rock on bootleg milk and cheese!!!!


You are either braver than I am or crazier, not sure which. 

 I would like to quit my job and figure out a way to make some money from my hobbies that bleed me dry so I really need to make this a legal venture. CA has no law regarding herd shares, one way or the other, but that doesn't stop them from shutting them down. I would take the rsk, but DH won't let me. They do have laws about making cheese, so that is a no go if I want to sell it commercially. It just isn't worth the risk on the cheese making, our state inspectors can be pretty ruthless.

Ultimately I would like to sell raw milk off my farm. CA is one of the few states that will allow that if you can get through the regulation process.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 28, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> WMR. are you sure you don't want to move to northern CA and get out of that desert. I am thinking we could have lots of fun together; and our dogs already know each other
> 
> There is land near me that will be for sale soon and I could use a partner that has a "can do" attitude. I want to do the educational center too; and have a community garden and farm and also teach canning and soap making. We just fit together.   Come on up.


*Haha that would be awesome! Unfortunately we already have things settled here, (my boyfriends business has been established here for 20 years). *


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 28, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> License?  I don't need no stinking license!!!
> 
> I will just continue to sell my products for "pet consumption only"
> 
> Rock on bootleg milk and cheese!!!!


*Haha yep, that's where were at right now with so many regulations and laws and licenses and permits; wayyyy to expensive. :/*


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 28, 2013)

*Man, there sure is a lot of good info on this thread; I will add what I have found so far...
*



> Grading
> In the United States, there are two grades of milk, with Grade A primarily used for direct sales and consumption in stores, and Grade B used for indirect consumption, such as in cheese making or other processing.
> The differences between the two grades are defined in the Wisconsin administrative code for Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection, chapter 60.[51] Grade B generally refers to milk that is cooled in milk cans, which are immersed in a bath of cold flowing water that typically is drawn up from an underground water well rather than using mechanical refrigeration.
> Grade A farms are inspected every six months, while Grade B farms are inspected every two years {WI-ATCP 60.24.2}
> ...


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## CochinBrahmaLover=) (Mar 28, 2013)

Catahoula said:
			
		

> If you have the time, energy and resources...go for it. I think it is wonderful to have dreams...whether you have cold feet or not. Keep dreaming and keep making your dreams happening. This is how we should all live. 54 is YOUNG!


I must second that. My friend's mother is 50 but looks 20-30, tops. 
Have fun, and best of luck. Hope everyone is going good ^^


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## Oakroot (Mar 28, 2013)

Hmmm even building everything yourself 50,000 is probably an unreasonably small budget. With 5 acres you may be able to become profitable much faster doing farmers market growing. I knew someone who was doing very well selling exotic mushrooms she grew on the farm at markets. Even two acres of orchard (with some of it going to cider) can be very profitable at a local market. But do up your business plan. Hopefully the math will all work out and we will be hearing about your wonderful new dairy soon.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 28, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I appreciate all the insight. The waste water is probably my biggest worry and I haven't quite figured out who to call in our county.


*What about running your waste water to a bio-swale like an orchard? That's what were planning on doing- not sure if it's right legally, but it solves our problem of runoff here.  

There are a few different places you could contact about waste water. These are the ones for down here; San Diego Region Irrigated Lands Group (SDRILG)  Down here we call them the "water police".  There is also one we call Schwepy; SWPPP. I know these aren't applicable where you are, but it might help you find the organizations up there. 
*


> I haven't seen anything on a separate driveway, but I may have to pave it.


*I haven't either; may be something to look into since I have a REALLY long dirt road up the side of the hill to my farm.  That could get expensive. 
*


> As far as the acutal building goes, I think our biggest advantage is the ability to do all the work ourselves. I am not afraid of things like having to add a bathroom as we have built an entire house, and I know that I can get a toilet and a sink for cheap or free. If they require that, and they may, I would have to put in another septic tank, but the leach field is downhill and very accessible from where we would build. We have the backhoe to dig the hole for the tank and we would do the connections. My property is also zoned for a second residence so hopefully they won't balk too much at another toilet.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 28, 2013)

*So I think that 100,000 dollars to build the shell of a dairy means more a commercial type of dairy. I guess what I want would be considered a "micro-dairy".

I found a pretty cool link- has some basics and a link to his website:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/the-...o-dairy-in-26-steps-step-1.aspx#axzz2OoGgWhAf
http://bobwhitesystems.com

Why couldn't you just pour a concrete slab and put one of those nice $5000 wooden buildings on it? Granted you still have to buy all the stainless steel for inside, but why wouldn't one of these work? (And maybe another something separate for the cool room (cheese cave). 







*


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## Queen Mum (Mar 28, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I know there must be people out there as crazy as I am so will someone who isn't crazy please convince me that at the age of 54 I shouldn't want to open a Grade B dairy. Especially I shouldn't want to try and do this in California, the great state of over regulations. I have been thinking about this for 4 years and after a life changing event in my husbands life he is finally on board with my crazy idea and now I am getting cold feet.
> 
> Am I crazy?


Insanity is an asset in the goat dairy business.   Guard it with your life.   If you are not crazy,  then your sanity will take over and talk you out of a good deal.


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## babsbag (Mar 28, 2013)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

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Love it


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 28, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> OneFineAcre said:
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I am probably crazier, but that would be pure speculation.

I was mostly joking.  But, we do have a "select" clientele that we sell milk and cheese to.

But, there are ads on CL in N.C. all the time for raw goats milk.  Going rate is $8.00 per gallon.  Adds all say "USDA regulations restrict the sale of blah blah blah blah.  This milk is sold for pet consumption only".

Some of them actualy have a picture of a gallon jug and they have a label that says For Pet Consumption Only.


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## babsbag (Mar 28, 2013)

I appreciate all the hurdles you guys throw at me, it makes me think this through even more. Good practice.

WMR, you are going to get me hooked on this idea aren't you?  I have a book called Farmstead Creamery Advisor, awesome book. The author has some great information and it is nice to have it in one place. I have also been to her farm and cheese classes and she is a wonderful person as well.

In CA the grade B dairy follows the rules from the USDA for manufacturing grade milk. They aren't that stringent. Grade A is much tougher, at least on my little piece of land it would be., mostly the regs regarding distance for housing from the milk room. 

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile?dDocName=STELDEV3004791

I would lilke to start small and expand to raw milk if I can, I would never want to sell to producers, just not my vision. Ultimately I would like to do an educational center with a garden and other livestock and have classrooms available for groups to use and also I would teach some basic classes in food preservation and soap making, and maybe cheese too. There is land near me for sale that I am hoping to buy, that is critical for the educational side of this project. 

I have seen plans for a micro dairy that are only 10x30 and then some that are 24x 30. That is the size of the garage we built for 15000. Granted the interior would cost a little more to finish but there are cement board products and fiberglass panels that are not that much money. I also know how to lay tile if I wanted to go that route. We are very good at finding things used. My DH will do all the framing, plumbing, and electrical. I will do all the finish work inside and paint. We will probably hire roofers just becasue it is hard hard work, and hire the slab poured

I would like to use the waste water from cleaning on the pastures, but I am a little leery of the chemical residue from the cleaners. I have to do some more research on that. 

I have everything for the milk parlor except the metal stands. I have a lot of friends that have nice goats in just about every breed so adding to my current collection would be easy. 
The milk room, I don't really need much if I make cheese within 2 hours. But I would still want to buy a chiller and very cold refrigerator freezer.
Here is the system for the milk production or make room that I am looking at; one of many. I really only need the pastuerizer for now. This is going to be the hardest and most expensive room in the facility.

http://www.microdairydesigns.com/

It includes a  legal pasteurizer with agitator, airspace heater, water jacket heater (no boiler required), approved thermometers, chart recorder.  Capacity for batches from 2 to 22 gallons.  Designed to function as a pasteurizer, cheese vat, yogurt vat and even as a small "bulk tank."
A packager for glass and plastic bottles as well as foil-seal yogurt cups.  It will handle packages as small as a half ounce and as large as gallon jugs.
Sanitary tube pump and Chiller

I still need to figure out how to package fresh cheese and feta. The aged cheeses will come later, I need to work on my skills for that this summer and it takes more equipment. There is a real science behind cheese making and I need a better grasp of that.


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## michickenwrangler (Mar 28, 2013)

Hydrogen peroxide is an approved cleaner (I believe at 30% concentration, NOT what you buy at the pharmacy, that's only 3%). The organic dairy I'm affiliated with uses that for their cleaning. Look into that.

Vacuum sealer for the cheese?

Again, dairy belt dweller here. For a few years I worked in Michigan's "Cheese Capital" the thriving metropolis of Pinconning. There are a few small cheesemakers and all of their cheese is vacuum sealed.


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## babsbag (Mar 28, 2013)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> Hydrogen peroxide is an approved cleaner (I believe at 30% concentration, NOT what you buy at the pharmacy, that's only 3%). The organic dairy I'm affiliated with uses that for their cleaning. Look into that.
> 
> Vacuum sealer for the cheese?
> 
> Again, dairy belt dweller here. For a few years I worked in Michigan's "Cheese Capital" the thriving metropolis of Pinconning. There are a few small cheesemakers and all of their cheese is vacuum sealed.


Never would have thought to use Hydrogen Peroxide. Thanks for the tip. Since I am not planning on owning many more animals than I currently own hopefully the county will not stress out over the waste water from the milk parlor. It will only be the water from the production part of the operation that will matter. 

That would probably work for the cheese. I have a "seal- a- meal" so I guess that it the same idea, only on a commercial scale. I aged some cheese in a vacuum once and that worked pretty good, but not what I would do for aging cheese for sale if I ever get there. I keep thinking chevre in the little round wheels, but I guess those are vacuumed packed too, I just never think about it when I buy it.

Truffles will just go in a box of some kind, but they will have to be refrigerated as well.

In the store you see Feta in little tubs, dry and crumbled. I store my feta in a brine so I wonder what they do, if anything, to make it keep well out of the brine?


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## babsbag (Mar 28, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

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I think in Colorado you have to dye the milk if it is for pets. Kinda like disel oil for the farm equipment.  We can eat, smoke, and drink (alcohol) ourselves to death, but heaven forbid if we want to drink raw milk.  Drives me crazy.


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## babsbag (Mar 28, 2013)

I just talked to the most wonderful man from our local planning dept. He is trying to find a way to get permission for me to have the dairy and make cheese with no zoning variance. He says that small wineries are allowed so he is going to try and talk to his boss and see if a micro dairy could just subsitiute for a winery. I have the zoning to produce products from things "grown" on my land so he thinks that should include a dairy as well. The most it could cost is 1200 for a written land use verification letter. He was amazingly helpful and a breath of fresh air from a government agency. he said it was his job to try and find way for citizens to do things legally without a bunch of expense. WOW!!!!!!!!!!

He also found out for me that our Environmental Health Dept does not license of inspect dairies at all and they don't want to. They leave it all up to the state. I am still not sure how I am supposed to deal with the added waste water, the state said to contact the county, but I will do it in an environmentally friendly way and be happy.

I am still in a state of happy amazement. It is seldom that I find someone that actually wants to save me money. Maybe they really are trying to be business friendly.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 28, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

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Drives me crazy too my friend.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 29, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> In the store you see Feta in little tubs, dry and crumbled. I store my feta in a brine so I wonder what they do, if anything, to make it keep well out of the brine?


*I do all our feta in olive oil. Lasts forever and is oh so yummy! Sometimes we layer with basil, or rosemary, garlic, sundried tomatoes etc... yum! 
*


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 29, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I just talked to the most wonderful man from our local planning dept. He is trying to find a way to get permission for me to have the dairy and make cheese with no zoning variance. He says that small wineries are allowed so he is going to try and talk to his boss and see if a micro dairy could just subsitiute for a winery. I have the zoning to produce products from things "grown" on my land so he thinks that should include a dairy as well. The most it could cost is 1200 for a written land use verification letter. He was amazingly helpful and a breath of fresh air from a government agency. he said it was his job to try and find way for citizens to do things legally without a bunch of expense. WOW!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> He also found out for me that our Environmental Health Dept does not license of inspect dairies at all and they don't want to. They leave it all up to the state. I am still not sure how I am supposed to deal with the added waste water, the state said to contact the county, but I will do it in an environmentally friendly way and be happy.
> 
> I am still in a state of happy amazement. It is seldom that I find someone that actually wants to save me money. Maybe they really are trying to be business friendly.


*

Awesome! Is he just Nor Cal? I'd like to have his contact info- maybe he knows someone down here. Last time I tried to get permitting for the farmers market I literally went through like 4 different agencies and about 15 different people and no one could answer any of my questions. *


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## Queen Mum (Mar 29, 2013)

There are a LOT of goat dairies in Washington State that will talk you through setup and other issues.   I can get you the info, if you are interested.  ALSO, access the cooperative extension services for various states for great info on organic farming and dairy.  They are a bit over the top on some issues but states where raw milk is legal have TONS of info on their COOPerative extension websites!


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

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I have done feta that way as well and everyone loves it, but just an FYI, you have to keep it in the fridge or run a serious risk of spoilage because of the garlic. I didn't believe that when I was first told, but after reading many cooperative extensions websites on the danger of garlic cloves in unprocessed products like the feta it made a believer out of me, and that is pretty hard to do at times. I am pretty hard headed.


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

So I just talked to our state inspector for my county and it is pretty scarey. This might actually happen...if I don't chicken our first. The guy was very nice and for everything I asked, he was "oh yes, you can do that, I don't see why not". What in the world is going on? All my friends told me that this was impossible and now I am looking for plans to submit. 

Yikes...I never in a millon years actually thought the state and county would be onboard with this.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Mar 29, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> So I just talked to our state inspector for my county and it is pretty scarey. This might actually happen...if I don't chicken our first. The guy was very nice and for everything I asked, he was "oh yes, you can do that, I don't see why not". What in the world is going on? All my friends told me that this was impossible and now I am looking for plans to submit.
> 
> Yikes...I never in a millon years actually thought the state and county would be onboard with this.


*

Thats so awesome, I hope things continue to go smoothly for you! I wish I had the money to be ready to be submitting plans! *


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

I am submitting the plans before I have all the money. This may be partly a build as I go project, but if I can get it all approved I think I will have an easier time getting some financing if I need it.


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> There are a LOT of goat dairies in Washington State that will talk you through setup and other issues.   I can get you the info, if you are interested.  ALSO, access the cooperative extension services for various states for great info on organic farming and dairy.  They are a bit over the top on some issues but states where raw milk is legal have TONS of info on their COOPerative extension websites!


If you have some contacts in WA that would be awesome. Right now I am researching floor plans. I need it to be compact, and maybe a design I can add on to if needed.


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## OneFineAcre (Mar 29, 2013)

If I missed it, I apologize.

But, what kind of goats are you going to raise on your dairy?  What do you own now?

You should check out Spinning Spider Creamery. They have a website.

Mostly Saanens

They are in Asheville, NC.  They are huge.  We know them from showing.  They were the Premier breeder at the NC State fair this year.

They milk 100 does per day.  My wife follows them on Facebook and they are in California now with some of their goats for some kind of reality show. I'm serious check it out on their website.

Asheville, NC is about as close to N. California as you will find on the right coast.

It is a hippy town.

Another one you can check out is Buffalo Creek Creamery in Germantown, NC. They have Nubians and Nigerians.  They must be doing pretty well.  They have an ad on CL looking to buy goats.


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## babsbag (Mar 29, 2013)

I am going to use Alpines and LaManchas, that is what I have now. I also have a Togg and not really fond of her milk but it might add some interest to aged cheeses when I get to that point. I have friends that own Nubians and Saanens so if I decide I want to add another breed or add a particular quality to my milk it won't be hard to do.

Thank you for the dairy names, I will check them out. I am only going to have one chance to get this floorplan right so I am looking for any and all plans and input on that. I am planning on milking not more than 15 does and trying to keep this a one person operation for now. I do have friends that will help and fill in when I need it.


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## kstaven (Mar 29, 2013)

The most important thing in all of this is "Inspectors can be your best friend or worst enemy" If they are on your side life can be very easy for a dairy. Get on the wrong side and some will go out of their way to find a reason to make your life miserable.

There are grade A facilities that use vinegar and Hydrogen peroxide in their wash systems. Solves many issues surrounding waste water.


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## doxiemoxie (Mar 31, 2013)

I am just one county down from you! I haven't done this because of the marketing side of the business.  (and the stupid start-up costs from the state)   I can happily help you out with the biochemistry side of things.  The water discharge shouldn't be much of an issue unless there is a waterway (creek) within a couple hundred feet of your property.  There are lots of places to get relatively inexpensive food packaging systems.  And there is a goat cheese dairy in Willows- a little closer than Washington State  in case you just wanted a day trip.  Their operation is bigger but would give you some good ideas for where to start.


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## babsbag (Mar 31, 2013)

Marketing is a big part of the equation but luckily for me my DH is willing to do alot of that for me and he really likes it. He is much better at it than I am. I haven't gotten into the actual start up costs yet, but I know it won't be cheap. I will be submitting plans in a few weeks I hope and so far the inspectiors have been very helpful and friendly.

I have been told that since I don't have cows I don't have to worry about waste management of manure and I don't have to have gutters in the milking parlor. We will most likely store the grey water and then use it for pasture irrigation. It is so dry here in the summer that some extra water will be very useful.

I appreciate the offer of help if I run into any hurdles in that dept. I didn't know there was a dairy in Willows. I know there is one in Cottonwood but the owner doesn't allow anyone to tour her facility. :/

On my plate right now is trying to decide on wall coating that is easy to apply and waterproof. I was looking at epoxy paint but it is quite expensive. I don't care for the fiberglass reinforced plastic panels because of the seams. I am thinking cement block in the milk parlour but would like to use something else in the production part of the facility. I would like to tile it but very costly so still pondering this. If anybody has ideas I would sure like to hear them.


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## kstaven (Apr 1, 2013)

Urethane.


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## aggieterpkatie (Apr 1, 2013)

I would recommend talking to people who are doing what you want to do. Go visit their farms, talk to them about what is involved, see their daily routine, talk about inspections, etc.


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## babsbag (Apr 1, 2013)

kstaven said:
			
		

> Urethane.


Applied over what? Plywood or concrete or something else?


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## kstaven (Apr 6, 2013)

Aquaboard.


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## OneFineAcre (Apr 18, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> I am going to use Alpines and LaManchas, that is what I have now. I also have a Togg and not really fond of her milk but it might add some interest to aged cheeses when I get to that point. I have friends that own Nubians and Saanens so if I decide I want to add another breed or add a particular quality to my milk it won't be hard to do.
> 
> Thank you for the dairy names, I will check them out. I am only going to have one chance to get this floorplan right so I am looking for any and all plans and input on that. I am planning on milking not more than 15 does and trying to keep this a one person operation for now. I do have friends that will help and fill in when I need it.


Personally, I don't think this would be financially feasible to have a dairy with only 15 goats.

Even if you can do all of the construction yourself.

Besides, you could milk more than 15 even if a one person operation.


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## sprocket (Apr 18, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> babsbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I started milking at our dairy, it was with 32 milkers.  I was doing five at a time and milking took about and hour or so, with 30 minutes afterwards for clean-up.  I was using home made milking stanchions sourced from materials from the junk yard.  Next year, we're looking to be milking about 60-70 girls.  I've just upgraded the parlour to a new set of headgates from Colburn which allows me to milk 12 at a time:

http://www.farmandranchdepot.com/farm-equipment/Sheep-Goat_Basic_Stall_w-Gates_1x12.html

I could probably comfortably milk over 100 animals by myself using this system - I'd encourage you to think about doing more.  It's not that much more work to feed and milk another 15 or 20 goats, but the financial returns will be significantly more.

We're currently going through the process to become a licensed dairy processing plant ourselves and I've just put together some basic floor plans.  If you'd like a copy, I'd gladly send you what we're going with - perhaps send me a private message with your email?

Out of curiosity, what is the going rate for selling a gallon of goat's milk in your area?  What is the price per pound for the cheeses you plan on making?  I have some spreadsheets I can also send you that helped us to forecast our sales, based on the number of goats we'd be milking.

Best of luck in this endeavour - and go for it!  I'm so glad we did, though sometimes it seems like our crazy dream verges on becoming our worst nightmare.


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## babsbag (Apr 19, 2013)

The reason I decided on 15 is that I am feeding that many right now so I know I can afford it; we have no access to good pasture so they are on dry lot. I am also going to try and work part time for the first year just so I don't stress the income too much. I just paid off a fairly big loan so I have some cushion in my budget right now, but I want to use that to build the facility and try not to borrow much.  If I can keep the start up cost down then my only added expense is increase in power cost and insurance and inspection fees. The other costs should be directly related to the amount of product I produce. Right now I would just like the goats to earn their own way. I am not looking to live on the income from the dairy.

I am allowed 30 goats on my land, but I am hoping that the land next to me will come up for sale soon and would like to try and buy it. There are really 2 parcels that might be available, one is 8 acres and one is 16, but for now I have to stick with my 5 acres. 

I am building the milking parlor big enough for expansion and still debating on equipment size. I would rather start small and build up than start big and fail miserably. 

In California there is a pretty big difference in getting licensed for a Grade A dairy and a Grade B. The Grade B is manufacturing milk and can only be used for cheese or yogurt. That is my goal for right now. In order to sell "market milk" I have to put in some paved lanes for the goats between the housing and the milk parlor and that will be pricey so it is future project. As it is I am moving my goat barn so it is 100' from the milk parlor, another requirement for Grade A. We can sell raw milk in CA, but there are a bunch other requirements for that as well so I don't know if I will ever go there. Insurance for that is $$$$.  I may never go Grade A as I don't know how much demand there would be for pastuerized goats milk, which is what I would have. I am going to stick to cheese for now. I am not sure what a gallon of goat milk is going for as I don't know anyone that sells it. 

Fresh Chevre sells for about $20 a pound if you have a reputation but I am planning on $10-12 to start.

I have dreams of moving all of this onto some pretty irrigated land with a view of our gorgeous mountains and offer cheese tasting and picnic grounds along with an agricultural education center and gardens and orchards.  But I am 55 years old so lets be realistic and start with a small dairy and see if I have the financial means to do the rest.  Dreams are what keep me going day by day.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Apr 19, 2013)

babsbag said:
			
		

> The reason I decided on 15 is that I am feeding that many right now so I know I can afford it; we have no access to good pasture so they are on dry lot. I am also going to try and work part time for the first year just so I don't stress the income too much. I just paid off a fairly big loan so I have some cushion in my budget right now, but I want to use that to build the facility and try not to borrow much.  If I can keep the start up cost down then my only added expense is increase in power cost and insurance and inspection fees. The other costs should be directly related to the amount of product I produce. Right now I would just like the goats to earn their own way. I am not looking to live on the income from the dairy.
> 
> I am allowed 30 goats on my land, but I am hoping that the land next to me will come up for sale soon and would like to try and buy it. There are really 2 parcels that might be available, one is 8 acres and one is 16, but for now I have to stick with my 5 acres.
> 
> ...


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