# Unexpected kidding (doe following the code) - PICS of all 3!



## KellyHM (Dec 12, 2010)

So, the Nubian who is SUPPOSE to be kidding any day now is still hanging on, but the one that JUST started bagging up last week dropped a doeling tonight!    She barely even looked pregnant and her bag wasn't that large, so I wasn't expecting for another few weeks.  Last year she was HUGE and so was her bag before she dropped twin boys.

So, here's where the help is needed.  She was 1 of my first Nubians (bought when I was very naive) and tested CAE Positive last spring.  I yanked the doeling as soon as I saw her and her cord was still very meaty and bloody, she was mostly dry except her legs, and she was TRYING to nurse, but still very unstable.  I'm really really hoping she didn't get any of her mother's colostrum.  I was expecting the other doe to kid first (who's CAE neg) and was just going to save colostrum from her.  Since it didn't work out that way I pulled some frozen colostrum from Feb out of the freezer and am trying to feed her that, although she's not super interested.  I've gotten a little bit down her, but not a lot.

Also, she's a little on the cold side (feet and ears feel cold, shivering), although her body is nice and warm.  She's currently on a heating pad in the bathroom and hot towels are warming up in the dryer.  Of course this one wasn't in the kidding pen b/c I didn't think she was that close.  

She stands on her own and takes small steps, but seems a little weak and almost like she has a head tilt?  Maybe it's b/c she's so new and doesn't have her balance yet?  

Anyways, any suggestions on how to get her started eating and warm her up better would be greatly appreciated.  

Pictures shortly!


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## KellyHM (Dec 12, 2010)




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## Blackbird (Dec 12, 2010)

Adorable!! Just send that little cutie up here!!

I'd reckon her head will straighten out with her balance.. With the position in the mother they sometimes come out a little mismatched. 

As long as she's warm and continues to get some colostrum in her you're doing great! And what a cutie!


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## Calliopia (Dec 13, 2010)

Oh she's a cutie.  Just making sure you know to use regular old Vit D cow milk if you need to supplement instead of milk replacer.   The replacer can cause severe stomach upset/scours.   

Hopefully you yanked her before she caught anything. Time will tell but I'm crossing my fingers for you. 


We dealt with a rejected Nigerian wether 2 years ago in early March and I turned a plastic tote on its side facing a heater so it retained some of the heat around him a little better. He curled up in that and was warm in no time.  I also draped a towel or blanket or something over the back side of the tote so it didn't get too cold.  He moved to an enclosed back porch at about 3-4 weeks old. (But to be fair he was quite babied as he was the only goat at the property at the time. I ended up with him from a friend's farm. He could have gone to the porch sooner.) 

For feeding I found the red kid nipples and a small glass Perrier bottle to be easiest. I never did get a soda/water bottle that tightly fit the nipples.  Also I could sterilize the glass bottles every so often.

I've found that any baby (human or animal) has a fair chance of being born quite stupid and needing to be shown how to eat.  Don't be afraid to just pop the nipple of the bottle in her mouth a couple times until she gets the picture.  Ours in fact NEVER got the idea and had to have the nipple put in his mouth every time.


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## Roll farms (Dec 13, 2010)

Adorable, congrats!

Most newborns are mighty hungry, so if she wasn't interested...it could be she took a lil nip before you came along.

There's just no way to know until you can test her later whether or not she nursed / 'caught' CAE.

I'm pretty ambivalent about culling for CAE.  

A lot of breeders will just catch the kids at birth / bottle raise on heat treated colostrum.  Some cull hard for it.

I have a doe who's dam tested negative up until her death (accidental)...this doe tested negative at 2 and 4, then positive at 5 and 5 and a half.  
I delivered her myself, I know she didn't nurse off of anyone.

Her 2 younger sisters and daughter all test negative.

My buck tests negative.



CAE is just a freaky disease.  
As long as she's healthy acting and happy...I see no reason to cull her.
If she had any symptoms or seemed in pain, I would put her down.


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## KellyHM (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok, a quick update!  She's doing GREAT!  No more head tilt, following me around the bathroom (where her spoiled little butt is living right now), trying to "pump" my leg for more milk, sucking down anything I give her.

It took me about 4 times sticking the bottle in her mouth and squeezing for her to get the hang of it, but now she goes looking for it!

I'm out of the frozen colostrum - only had about 2 cups total.  Is it best to use a multi-species colostrum supplement (no goat-specific one anywhere around) or go straight to regular milk?  Does everyone think regular milk is best?  I raised a kid on milk replacer last year and he did fine, but if the consensus is cow's milk I'll go with that.  

Thanks again for all your help!


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## Roll farms (Dec 13, 2010)

I buy a powdered colostrum supplement that I add a couple of teaspoons of to milk when I'm running short (2 sets of quads will put a dent in your colostrum supply...).  

BUT I make sure everyone gets at least 2 feedings (even if it's just a few oz. ea) of the good stuff first.

I don't really know what to tell you is 'best' b/c I've never been in that situation but....if it was me, I would probably combine 1/2 colostrum mix (mixed w/ water according to directions) w/ half vitamin D milk for a couple more feedings and then switch her over to vitamin D.

If you have good luck w/ replacer, more power to you.  I prefer whole milk....but that's based on my own past bad luck w/ replacer.


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## KellyHM (Dec 13, 2010)

Ok, I'm off to the feedstore to grab some powdered colostrum, then to the grocery store for milk.

What I'd like to do (ideally) is switch her back to goat's milk once my other doe (CAE neg) kids, which should be any day.  Will it be ok to switch her back as long as I do it slowly so I don't upset her stomach?


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## helmstead (Dec 13, 2010)

Congrats on the adorable surprise!  Roll has already given you great advice.  She is just precious


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## freemotion (Dec 13, 2010)

You can switch her back to goat's milk, it will be great for her.  You can also pasteurize her mother's milk and feed that, but it is a bit of a pain.  You have to wait until she has no more colostrum to pasteurize it, or it gets thick.

She is adorable!!


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## ksalvagno (Dec 13, 2010)

She's adorable! Congratulations!


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## Roll farms (Dec 13, 2010)

Yup, you can switch her back to g. milk, just don't do it all at once.

You're doing fine.


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## KellyHM (Dec 13, 2010)

My other doe just kidded!!!!    Twin doelings!!!  So I have 3 DOElings!!!    Must go dry them off....pictures soon!!!!


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## lilhill (Dec 13, 2010)

Congratulations on the new babies!


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## Roll farms (Dec 13, 2010)

Don't forget to thank your buck for being a 'doe maker'!  Congrats again.
Now you'll have good colostrum and milk for all.


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## KellyHM (Dec 13, 2010)

Yes, the buck will get extra treats today!  And so will the girls of course!  AND it's my birthday!  

Mom to the twins is being a good mommy and licking them, chewing umbilical cords, etc.  They haven't nursed yet, but they're not very steady on their feet yet either, so I'll keep an eye on that.  This is the doe that does NOT like me near her udder, so I'm hoping she'll get over it and let the kids nurse (this is her first freshening, so we shall see).

The other doe that I took the kid from was calling and trying to get to the twins.  I feel so sad for her.  She raised her kids last year (before I knew about CAE) and was a great mom, so I'm sad that I can't let her raise this one.  Sigh...


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## helmstead (Dec 13, 2010)

WAHOO!  Happy Birthday to YOU!


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## glenolam (Dec 13, 2010)

What a weekend and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

I'm very happy to hear everything went well for you!  So much for february, right!?!?!


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## KellyHM (Dec 13, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> What a weekend and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
> 
> I'm very happy to hear everything went well for you!  So much for february, right!?!?!


  I knew they wouldn't go until Feb., but I thought the 1 who had the single would last until January.  So much for that theory!


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## KellyHM (Dec 13, 2010)




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## thelodens (Dec 13, 2010)

What a great Birthday present! They are all sooooooo cute! Love love love those little spots on the one! HAPPY BIRTHDAY! CONGRATULATIONS!!!!


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## KellyHM (Dec 13, 2010)

Quick question.  How long should I wait before I pull them if she doesn't let them nurse?  Right now she keeps backing away from them if they get near her udder, but she still has some afterbirth hanging and looks like maybe she's still having some contractions.  Maybe trying to pass the afterbirth?  Or is it possible she's got another one in there after this long?

Also, it's suppose to be in the mid 20s tonight.  There is a heat lamp hanging in the pen, but it's SUPER windy on top of cold.  Would it be a good idea to bring the babies in for the night or would that freak mom out too much?


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## glenolam (Dec 13, 2010)

My oberhasli/nubian doe was bred to a spotted nubian buckling...I'm drooling over your babies and only HOPE I get something that cute!

Congratulations!!!!!


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## helmstead (Dec 13, 2010)

Milk a few squirts out, hold her still (pin her against the wall if you have to) and help them nurse.  She's probably having placenta contractions...


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 13, 2010)

Happy birthday and congrats on all the doe kids!


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## Roll farms (Dec 13, 2010)

If you absolutely can't get her to let them nurse, then I'd feed them after 2-3 hours, or if they start to look like they're weakening.

But don't let her get away w/ being a bad Mom if you can manage...


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## KellyHM (Dec 13, 2010)

Went back out and she's letting them nurse!    And the afterbirth has passed, so I can relax a little.  The only thing left to worry about now is the below-freezing temps the tonight and tomorrow.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 13, 2010)

Very cute! Congratulations on your births and Happy Birthday!


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## glenolam (Dec 13, 2010)

I wouldn't take them away from mom for the night.  Try to batten down the hatches as best as possible and give the kids an area to hide in if it gets really bad.  She should keep them warm enough throughout the night - just keep some extra straw around them.  Be careful if you use towels or blankets; if they have any pulled strings the kids may try to play or eat them and it could get stuck in their throats.


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