# Disbudding, any tips or tricks. Figure 8 burn. New pics pg 4!



## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 25, 2013)

I ordered a rhinehart X30 with the standard tip. Its supposed to get here today and I have 4  7-10 day old babies I need to do. One has pretty large buds. Like the horns are about to break through the skin. I've seen it done a few times and know I'm going for a good copper ring.  I like the 5 seconds, snip the bud, 5-8 seconds more method.. I also know to rock it back and forth I beleive.. 

I have a 8 week old nigerian dwarf that had a bad disbudding and is growing horns. I can probably still get the disbudding iron around them, Anyone think I can re-disbud him too?! 

I know to get it nice and hot and test it on a piece of wood first to make sure its hot enough. I wasn't planning on spraying it with anything but I can get some blue coat or something if you guys think its necessary. And they're on a bottle so I'll give them a bottle after to make everything okay.

Wish me luck!


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## DonnaBelle (Jan 25, 2013)

Well, number 1, it is a 2 person job.

We also have a disbudding box, which really helps.  The iron will be glowing red hot and the goat will be moving around and screaming.

Their heads are not flat where you will be doing the disbudding.  That's why you need to to do the circle round motion. 

When you do the 5-8 seconds the first time, lift up the iron and look for the copper ring.  If you see any dark spots on the circle where the iron has been you must do another 3-5 seconds.

If you can SHAVE THE AREA OF THE HEAD WHERE YOU WILL BE WORKING.  YOU CAN SEE THE AREA MUCH BETTER.  I use a little shaver I bought at walmart to do beards, etc. with, works great for this chore.

I usually give the kid their first CD & T shot before the disbudding, then you can do the booster in about 3 weeks.

You can spray with the blue Kote if you wish, don't get it in their eyes.  

DON'T FREAK OUT IF YOU SEE A LITTLE BIT OF WHITE.  Yes, you have gone thru the skin down to the bone, but if you don't push too hard and break thru the bone into the brain it will be OK.

Disbudding is the thing I like least about having goats, but I hate horns worse, so I do it.

DH and I have worked out the routine and do it together.  WE have to do one this weekend.

The first time we did it I was shaking like a leaf and he was too.

Good luck just be calm, take your time, and make sure the da** phone won't ring and you won't be interrupted during the operation.

DonnaBelle


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 25, 2013)

Oh yeah. I knew about the shaving. 

Looks like I'm a man down though cause Dbf wont help. I cant even get him to hold the cats while I vaccinate them. Some people are just a lot more squeemish then others and cant watch things be burned or poked! Lol

The girl that did my kids last year did it mostly by herself. No box, held the body in between her legs and held the head with one hand, burned with the other. Now no naysayers about her technique! I know its not the best way, but when it needs to be done it needs to be done.


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## RainySunday (Jan 25, 2013)

My hubby does it pretty much by himself here.  We have NDs, so they are pretty small when we do it.  I generally just help hold them while he gets them wrapped up (think swaddling a baby), then hold them after with an ice pack on their head.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 25, 2013)

*I have never seen it done before and I am SO not looking forward to it this year! And you say you can see skull,  ugh, now I have the jeebees!!! *


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 25, 2013)

Yes! Thank you!! I didn't even think of that. We used to call it a 'burrito' when I was working at the vet. (more commonly a kitty burrito!  )  Didn't even think of doing that with the kids.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 25, 2013)

*You mean Purritos! 





*


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 25, 2013)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> *I have never seen it done before and I am SO not looking forward to it this year! And you say you can see skull,  ugh, now I have the jeebees!!! *


Yeah! It sucks but I cant have horned goats. :/ 

She did 5 kids for me last year and did the nigerian when I picked him up (he's growing horns though but it didn't even have good copper rings and she didn't nip the bud this time.)  So I've seen it a few times! It seems like they hate being restrained the most..


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 25, 2013)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> *You mean Purritos!
> 
> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/6210_funny-pictures-you-ordered-three-ca.jpg*


  Daaaaweeee!!!!!!


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 25, 2013)

CrazyCatNChickenLady said:
			
		

> WhiteMountainsRanch said:
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*
Me too, I hate horns. Will be taking mine to the lady I bought 2 of my does from to do them, none of hers ever get scurs so I'm hoping they turn out good! I just haven't seen it and am just not looking forward to it.

While we're on the subject; some people say 3-5 days and some say 5-10 days, which is better? (Don't mean to hijack).*


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 25, 2013)

I have the answer to all of this. Leave the horns on!


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 25, 2013)

Earlier for boys, later for girls.. It all depends on the buds too. 

Straw,  My goats are all run-you-down bottle babies! I'm sure no matter how careful I was eventually I'd get a horn through the leg or something. Dairy horns are so pointy and stick right up outta their head. If I had boers or other swoopy horned goats them _maybe_..


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jan 25, 2013)

I know. I'm messing. It's your choice to disbud or to not disbud. I'm not for it but see how it would be a good thing in certain situations.


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## TigerLily Trail Ranch (Jan 25, 2013)

This will be my first time disbudding & im ordering an X30 as well. The folks that have taught me always do it solo with their X30s no issues. They wear a glove on the hand holding the kid & kneel on flat ground. The kid goes between your legs & if your right handed you hold the kid's head against your right leg. You also cover their ear to prevent burning it. X30s are supposed to be quicker so only 3-4 seconds, break, & then 4-5 seconds more rotating the tip each time. Its doesnt hurt to gently blow away the smoke either. Ive also been taught to shave the bud area & wait 15+ minutes between kids as well. Hope this helps!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 25, 2013)

For anyone ordering the x30...do NOT get a pygmy tip.  They are fixed and cannot be replaced and the small tip is awful!  We thought with NDs we would want the small tip.  NOPE!


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## Roll farms (Jan 25, 2013)

I wear an 'Ov Glove' on the hand holding the kid's head / neck area.  It has prevented any new little half moon scars on my hand since I started wearing it 4 yrs ago.

We also do the 'burrito' thing, we tried a kid box but I personally felt they could move around too much.  
After we've shaved their heads and given them their 1st CDT, I wrap them in an old throw and kneel over them, my dh sort of stabilizes their muzzle and I do the burn w/ the right hand, hold their necks w/ my left.

We've done big bucklings at 1 day old and tiny doelings at 2 wks old, it just depends on the kid and how they're acting / how big the buds are.

We do the figure 8 burn on bucklings.


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## TigerLily Trail Ranch (Jan 26, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:
			
		

> For anyone ordering the x30...do NOT get a pygmy tip.  They are fixed and cannot be replaced and the small tip is awful!  We thought with NDs we would want the small tip.  NOPE!


Would you mind defining awful? Ive heard that a few times, but that is what my friends use (all pygmy breeders not NDs) & ive ordered. As far as I know they have never had issues with theirs'. 

Im not a ND person, but I would recommend the size up anyway if you have both mini breeds or just ND's. Thats just my 5 cents though .


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## Southern by choice (Jan 26, 2013)

I have never disbudded. Our ND breeder did say not to use the small tips though. I've heard with bucks you need to do a figure 8 sort of...don't know what that means. It seems bucks must be harder because every buck I've seen ends up with scurs. 

Watching this thread because when I have mini manchas THEY WILL be disbudded. Lamanchas should not have horns... too feisty.


Maybe Roll could explain the figure eight...


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## Pearce Pastures (Jan 26, 2013)

TigerLily Trail Ranch said:
			
		

> Pearce Pastures said:
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The tip is too small to actually cover the entire bud base and we have had scurs in all of our boys and a few regrowths in the girls that had to be redone, even doing a figure 8---it needed to be more like a triangle of burns instead of just the two.  If I had to do it over again, now that I have had some experience in doing it and in talking with other people with NDs, I would have gotten the larger tip.  It would be so much easier to make sure the entire bud was covered.


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 26, 2013)

Ohh noooooo! lol I youtubed figere 8 burn. NEVER youtube goat disbudding.. 

So saaaaddd..   I dont know why in person wasnt nearly as bad as youtube.. You want me to burn 4 times on each baby???!!   

Yay for lamanchas and no ears though! The ove glove is a great idea. I just so happen to have one of those.


I also bought the standard (1/2") tip. The difference between the 3 sizes was only 1/8". It was 1/4" 3/8" and 1/2". I was gonna get the middle sized one but then I did some reading and googling and most everyone said the standard (1/2") tip is the best one to use on all kids. I'm pretty sure the standard is the one my friend uses on her ND's too.   





Here's my boys!


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 26, 2013)

Also, the video he pooped all the caps off. The bud caps and the bottom of the 8 caps.. Do you guys pop all the caps and reburn? Now I want to go buy some blu-kote.. :/


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## DonnaBelle (Jan 26, 2013)

Yep, the l/2 inch tip is what we use.

We did our new doeling this morning.  We are actually getting pretty good at it.  Goes to show you can become good at anything if you do it enough times.

We spray a little Vetercyn on the buds after burning.  I've never had one have any problem at all after the procedure.

We have had one goat with horns, she knew she had them, used them at every opportunity and was a real b***h.

DonnaBelle


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## babsbag (Jan 26, 2013)

I have a friend do mine. I am an absolute wimp when it comes to inflicting pain on an animal. I tried 2 bucklings a few years ago and failed miserably. So...I fix her computer and she disbuds my kids. Great deal for me. She uses a box, but another friend does the burrito.

She does not do a figure 8 on the bucks, but she does come back in a few weeks and burn them again if needed. Wethers won't be as bad, but the bucky boys will probably have to be done more than once. My last buck we did 3 times, but no scurs on that boy. 

I had a buck with a horrible scur that we had removed. He ended up having a hole in his head open to his sinuses, which got infected and it took almost a year to close the hole.  

I will never never never never never, did I say *NEVER*, have a scur removed again on a full grown goat. Burn as many times as you need to when they are small, but get it all.


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 26, 2013)

Gahh! Lol I just got done with 2 of them.. The first one had pretty big buds. The horns had already broken through basically. He's maybe 13-14 days old though and was the oldest of the bunch. I was a little discouraged after because they were so big but the second one went pretty good, I think, (only time will tell!) I did some reading on the figure 8 burn and thats what I did. I'm not sure If I burned the front part enough, but I didn't want to do it too much.  I think I like that technique for the boys though! I was a little shakey at first but it passed after I did the first one. They both took the bottle willingly after so I didn't do it too long at least! 

And did I mention Yay earless goats!!


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## rinksgi (Jan 27, 2013)

A friend of mine came over and did the ones on my little girls. She didn't snip the buds after burning. I asked her about it and she said she didn't do it. Is that bad?


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## GLENMAR (Jan 28, 2013)

rinksgi said:
			
		

> A friend of mine came over and did the ones on my little girls. She didn't snip the buds after burning. I asked her about it and she said she didn't do it. Is that bad?


No. They will dry up and fall off. That's what mine did.


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 28, 2013)

We skipped yesterday because we were at the other house but I just did #3.  I think it went pretty good! It sucks but I'm totally over the initial thought of 'about to cause lots of pain to this poor baby' and I was ready to burn! I'm sure tomorrow will be a breeze. Going to do the last one in the morning. I really like the figure 8 burn and plan on doing that with all my boys! Feeling the scurs on my saanen I feel like they wouldn't be there if the ridge was burned. 

  Now lets hope for minimal scurs!!


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 29, 2013)

I got some pics today. Baby goat heads are one of the hardest things to get a good picture of!! 

This is #2 and I think it looks pretty good.. I dont think I did the front parts quite long enough but we'll see how it turns out.






Another of #2.. 






This was the first one I did. He had the biggest buds. I couldn't really get a good pic though, this one is WAY too hyperactive!   I think it looks better in person and not in a blurry picture!












And I just did Mcgee yesterday evening..


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 29, 2013)

*I have no clue what I'm looking at since I am a newbie, and I have never seen it done, but on other pictures I have seen it looks like they are done deeper (or more) over all?*


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## that's*satyrical (Jan 30, 2013)

Yeah I don't see copper rings or anything. Are you sure the iron was hot enough? The placing and everything looks good. You can test the iron before hand on a piece of wood if it makes a black ring all the way around it's hot enough. Generally if it turns red on the tip it's hot enough too.


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 30, 2013)

I actually passed the copper rings and hit skull on 2 of them(on accident!).. I think the blu-kote makes it look less then it really is. The iron was WAY hotter then I expected. I tested it on a 2x4 first and got good black circles, then let it re-heat. The iron was glowing red too.. I know I didn't get good copper rings on the front parts on the first 2.. I was too chicken to burn that long but I'm happy with how the main burns turned out. 

I'm perfectly fine with small, thin scurs. I just dont want a repeat of this.. Horns with blood supply still.. He's 8 weeks and was (barely) disbudded on day 9.. (not by me!!)


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## that's*satyrical (Jan 30, 2013)

If that's the case then I bet you will be fine and won't have to do it again. Yay!


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## Roll farms (Jan 30, 2013)

Looks like you did a good job.  Congrats!  Only time will tell, but you're off to a good start.  We used to get scurs on about 50% of our boys.  Pretty sure only one had a scur last time (out of 78 kids disbudded last year - I'm the local 'go to' disbudder....yay).


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 30, 2013)

Just got finished with the last boy. He was youngest. It came out really good! lol perfect copper rings (both 8's) and then I sprayed it with blu-kote and all you could see was messy purple!!  We'll see how things go!


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Jan 30, 2013)

This is the one I just did today! This is one of the ones I'm probably gonna keep for a buck.  

















 Lol! He has the cutest butt! Its white with blue spots!


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jan 30, 2013)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Looks like you did a good job.  Congrats!  Only time will tell, but you're off to a good start.  We used to get scurs on about 50% of our boys.  Pretty sure only one had a scur last time (out of 78 kids disbudded last year - I'm the local 'go to' disbudder....yay).


*Can you give us any tips or tricks?



Also, I've never seen the figure 8 and no breeders around here do it like that... can you expla*in more about it?


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