# Fence Type For Goats



## Hobby Farm (Sep 8, 2009)

I went shopping for fence yesterday for my future goat lot.  I found that a 4'x330' roll of "goat and sheep" fence is over $100 a roll more expensive than the same size roll of "General purpose field."  The goat and sheep have a heavier gage construction with 4"x4" openings and the general purpose has slightly larger openings.

Will the general purpose be okay or should I spend the additional money for the goat and sheep?

Thanks.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 8, 2009)

I use regular field fence for the main pastures.
If you plan to have kids, they could get through the field fence, so I have lined my area for the kids with 2 X 4.


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## Hobby Farm (Sep 8, 2009)

trestlecreek said:
			
		

> I use regular field fence for the main pastures.
> If you plan to have kids, they could get through the field fence, so I have lined my area for the kids with 2 X 4.


By kids, you mean goat kids right? lol  At first I thought you were talking about human kids getting through.  Excuse me, it's like a Monday morning and I'm still getting my coffee into me.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 8, 2009)

I had originally typed, "little ones",....LOL.


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## goat lady (Sep 8, 2009)

We use regualar field fence and it is just fine for our goats. Now we have two little ones 9 week old and 7 week old. The 9 week old can not get threw the fence, but the 7 week old knows how to get threw.  We keep those two in a dog kennel till they are bigger. One of our does kidded. They stayed with the momma, so there was no worries there.


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## Hobby Farm (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm glad to hear the field fence will be okay.  I will be able to buy 660' for about the same price as 330' of goat/sheep fence.  I like the idea of putting 2x4 or something smaller around an area with kids.  I will keep that in mind when we have kids.  

How far apart do you put your T posts?  I was told around 16'.  Is this about right?


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## freemotion (Sep 8, 2009)

When I was a kid (human, I think....  ) my father made yokes out of three pieces of bamboo polls tied in a triangle with baling twine for the kids (goat) that were getting through the holes in the fence.  It worked great, and the twine eventually broke, but by then they couldn't get through the holes anymore.

When I got my second pygmy-x a few years ago, I had one section of fencing that was in some heavy brush that had the same size openings as the above fence did, but of course, my pygmies are chunky so I didn't worry about it.  First mistake.

I would find Te'a in the afternoon in the neighbor's yard, running up and down the fenceline, trying to get back in.  I could NOT figure out how she was getting out.  One day, I was fortunate enough to see her squeeze through the openings in the fence....working really hard, pushing with her back legs to push her tummy through.  Then when she ate the lush vegetation in the unkept yard next door, she would get so big that her tummy could not fit back through the fence... 

Of course, now that bit of fence is replaced with 2" x 4" openings...


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## trestlecreek (Sep 8, 2009)

I would have to measure, but I'm thinking we have our t-posts every 5 ft,..then at around every 25-30 ft. or so we have buried wood post.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 8, 2009)

I used the no climb 48 inch horse fencing. It also has the 2x4 openings. We did use 6 inch wooden posts throughout but this is also to accommodate larger livestock. If you use T posts, then you do need to put in a wooden post every so many feet (can't remember the spacing on that).


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## lupinfarm (Sep 8, 2009)

Your wire fencing is THAT cheap? Geez...


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## Hobby Farm (Sep 8, 2009)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> Your wire fencing is THAT cheap? Geez...


Field fence was $140 for 330' and the goat/sheep was $260 for 330'.  Not quite half, but for $300 I can do a lot more for less money.  It's Redbrand fence, so I assume that is a quality manufacturer.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 8, 2009)

Hobby Farm said:
			
		

> I went shopping for fence yesterday for my future goat lot.  I found that a 4'x330' roll of "goat and sheep" fence is over $100 a roll more expensive than the same size roll of "General purpose field."  The goat and sheep have a heavier gage construction with 4"x4" openings and the general purpose has slightly larger openings.
> 
> Will the general purpose be okay or should I spend the additional money for the goat and sheep?
> 
> Thanks.


We have some of everything..  The sheep and goat fence is OK, and the field fence is OK, but there exists a cheaper and -- in my humble opinion -- a much, much better alternative:  Hi-Tensile electric.

Last I checked, a 4000' spool of Hi-Tensile was about $100.  Divide that 4000' by 5 or 6, depending on how many strands you want, to make it equivalent to field fence..  If you do 5 strands, you're talking $100 for 800' of fence -- beats the CRAP out of field fence from a price standpoint alone.

Plus, it lasts pretty much forever...  They don't rub on it, so it doesn't slooooowly get pushed over..  It's much easier, in my opinion, to put up..  Once you get it up and energized, making temporary fences or paddocks is an absolute SNAP -- just throw a few t-posts in the ground, run some polystrand, and tie it to the hi-tensile.  Boom, you're done.  

After having used hi-tensile, I can tell you that if I never had to put up another run of woven wire fence of any kind in my life, it would be too soon.


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## lupinfarm (Sep 8, 2009)

Hobby Farm said:
			
		

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Sigh, When I looked at goat/sheep here it was like $400 for 100ft.


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## freemotion (Sep 8, 2009)

Fencing has skyrocketed in price.  I use the 4' horse fencing, too, and the first rolls I bought over 7 years ago were under $99.  The last rolls bought about 1.5 years ago were $139.  The last time I checked, the same fencing was $169.....for 100 feet.

I'm so glad I did it, though.  I can leave them in it 24/7 without worry or fear.  I used electric strands until I gradually put up the better fencing a roll at a time as I could afford it.  I made a small paddock of horse fencing around the barn area first, and only let them out in the electric strand fence when I was home during the day.

This is part of the reason for my signature line....Little strokes fell great oaks.  So many projects that seem impossibly big or expensive can be done a bit at a time and since time flies so quickly, it is done before you know it....if you start.


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## Hobby Farm (Sep 8, 2009)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

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What about when the electric is out?  That is the concern we had.  We've had several times in the past few years when we were w/ out electric for several days and in one case over a week.  Won't they be able to get out if it's not electicfied?


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## freemotion (Sep 8, 2009)

It really depends on the individuals.  Some will test the fence, some will not.  Some seem to know by listening or something, they just seem to know!  I had a mare who would carefully test the fence with her whiskers!  So some will just assume that the fence is always on.  But it is a big risk to take.

You could always get a solar fencing unit for those times.  It is not as strong or reliable as a plugged in unit, but might give you some peace of mind.

I had a unit when I was a kid that ran on a car battery.  That might be more reliable when there is cloud cover, since when the power is out, it is often stormy/rainy weather.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 8, 2009)

Hobby Farm said:
			
		

> What about when the electric is out?  That is the concern we had.  We've had several times in the past few years when we were w/ out electric for several days and in one case over a week.  Won't they be able to get out if it's not electicfied?


Our electric was out for 6 days this past January.  On day 6, *one* goat made her way under a weak section of 4-strand electric into another paddock to fight with some of our other goats.

That was it.

I could easily have averted even that problem -- if you'd even call it a "problem," really -- by either having a small backup solar charger, or by simply hooking a power inverter to a car battery, and running the charger off that.

I wasn't really concerned enough to bother, though..  Once they're trained to the electric fence, they don't tend to test it -- especially if they have all they need on their side of the fence.  Why risk 8,000 volts to eat _that_ weed, when there's _this_ weed over here?

Momentary outages...like an afternoon, or even a day...the fence doesn't even cross my mind.

You did remind me of something, though...  The reason our power was out was because we had a MASSIVE ice storm.  Like reallyreally bad.  When it was all said and done, I decided I'd go check the fence to see how many limbs/trees were down on it..

One spot in particular had about an 8" limb fall directly on top of the fence, pushing it completely to the ground.  I started the saw, cut the limb, and all 6 strands went BOING! -- sprang right back into place.  I tightened the inline strainers just because I was back there and had the tool in my hand, but I really didn't have to..  There was literally ZERO damage done to the fence.

Had that been field fence, on the other hand.....that's easily an afternoon, gone, spent in the cold wind with your fingers freezing...stretching and pulling and tying-on fence, and you've still most likely got a weak spot even when you're finished.

So far as I'm concerned, hi-tensile is the best thing since _bread_, sliced or unsliced.


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## Hobby Farm (Sep 8, 2009)

I appreciate your input cmjust0.  I thought I had decided what I want, but you have made me reconsider.  I had talked to few people about high tention wire, and they were talking about a $50 crimping tool, the tentioner w/ springs, and the tools required for it.  It seemed like there was a lot more to it than just buying wire, posts and insulators and putting it up.  I guess the intial investment appeared to be much more expensive.  After hearing what you have stated, it seems the intial investment would be worth the years of maintance free use.

Now I don't know what I want to use.

Thanks.


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## kimmyh (Sep 8, 2009)

> Field fence was $140 for 330' and the goat/sheep was $260 for 330'.  Not quite half, but for $300 I can do a lot more for less money.  It's Redbrand fence, so I assume that is a quality manufacturer.


That is the fencing we used on the large pastures along with 4 2"x6" boards per 10'. For me, it is cheaper to buy a better fence, than to hire someone to replace the cheap fencing when it get stretched, and/or torn.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 8, 2009)

Hobby Farm said:
			
		

> I had talked to few people about high tention wire, and they were talking about a $50 crimping tool, the tentioner w/ springs, and the tools required for it.  It seemed like there was a lot more to it than just buying wire, posts and insulators and putting it up.  I guess the intial investment appeared to be much more expensive.  After hearing what you have stated, it seems the intial investment would be worth the years of maintance free use.


Yeah, I had the same thought...but I bought a bunch of that stuff anyway.

1) Crimping tool  -- useless, skip it.  In fact, do yourself a huge favor up front and skip the tool and crimping sleeves and gigantic PITA that goes along with all of that right up front..  

You don't HAVE to crimp anything...I know, I know..  That's not what you've heard or read, but it's true.  

Buy a wire twist tool (a bank-breaking $3.79  ) and learn how to make a square knot.  That's it.  Square knot your splices, twist/loop the tag ends with the cheapie tool, and you're done.  The tighter you pull, the stronger the knot gets.  I can tell you first hand that a square knot holds up better than a crimped splice -- and I personally even think it looks better.



2) Springs  -- don't bother, they're totally unnecessary.  I bought some...they're in a bucket somewhere in the barn.

3) Tensioners  -- You need those, but they're only $2 or $3 and you really only need like one per strand per several hundred feet of fence.  I can show you a trick using a fence staple that makes the cheapies as strong as the spendy ones, too...which means I know where the cheapy ones break..  

That's  for me, but  for you.  It's always cheaper to learn from someone else.  

4) Strainer crank handle/Tensioning tool -- Handy dandy, and a whopping $5.50.


Otherwise, the only 'extra' things you'll really need are a small pair of boltcutters and a spinning jenny ..  You'll need the boltcutters to cut the hi-tensile...those fence pliars you use to cut regular fence?  Don't bother -- hi-tensile is too stout for those.  Harbor Freight, Big Lots, wherever...you can probably get those for about $10 if you don't already have a set, and once you're done with the fence...hey, you've got boltcutters! 

As for the spinning jenny (wire dereeler)....  They're about $30, but those coils of hi-t are HEAVY.  Like, real dang heavy.  Get the dereeler.

Don't even think about staking that jenny in the ground, though...she'll flop right over and the arms dig into the dirt.  It's pretty much exactly what you think will happen when you see the wimpy little stake/pin thing on the bottom of the spinning jenny, but then you just assume that no engineer could be that stupid...so you try it and hope it doesn't happen...then it totally _does_ happen...and you're like THIS DEREELER THING IS STUPID!  Why did I waste $30 on this?!?

Then you get smart and take about a 3'x3' sheet of maybe 5/8" ply and frame on the outside with 2"x4"'s set on edge..  Then you screw a block of 2x4 to the center, drill a hole through the ply and the block, take your new platform and jenny into the field, set ol' jenny down in her platform, and walk away effortlessly with one end of your new wire fence in hand...  She won't flop over in the dirt that way, and as you walk away with ol' jenny spinning happy behind you, you'll be like THIS DEREELER IS THE BEST THING EVER MADE!  It was totally worth my $30!!

 

Granted, I didn't do a huge plot of hi-tensile compared to a lot of folks...probably a little over a half-mile or so, total...but I literally walked it all off on foot -- all 6 strands -- and did it _by myself_.  I picked up a lot about what to do...what not to do...what's gimmick, versus what works in the field.  

Obviously, I'll be here to help no matter what you choose, but I'll tell you this...hi tensile fence is one of those rare, beautiful things in life that I've come to appreciate from a lot of different angles..  Truly.  I know that's weird, but I can't help it.  As such...and as you might have guessed...I'm not shy when it comes to talking about it.


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## lupinfarm (Sep 8, 2009)

although I haven't tried our solar fencer with goats, our solar fencer is GREAT. it is super powerful, it even knocked the wind out of me when I hit it by accident feeding Luna a few weeks ago (and I'm a 5'10", 250lb girl!) 

Luna tried the fence once, and even when off things its still on. My goats will have a plug in fencer rated for 50 miles, which will also power the horse fencing in upper fields (small fields, BTW). I will also have a smaller pen that is metal for the goats to go in. Since my goats will come in at night, I figure that this small pen will suffice should we have a large power outtage.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 9, 2009)

I will run electric as a buck barrier WITH regular fence, but there is no way that I would trust electric alone!!
We have trees, hills, rocks, wind, does in heat w/bucks that would love them, cars on the road and neighbors whom own dogs,etc...... Just is not the safest I can provide to keep my herd secure/safe. I don't like to worry about my fenceline.


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## lupinfarm (Sep 9, 2009)

Yep, Trestle, eveyone circumstances are different and should be judged as so. Although I'm sure I could get away with a electric fenceline only with the goats, I will for looks mostly  Be putting a secondary fenceline in . 6 strand electric on t-posts, which are really friggen ugly, but get the job done, and a smal 4ft buck fence running along the outside to dress it up since the goat pasture is right in front of my house and one of the first things you see when you drive up past the chicken house.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 9, 2009)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> 6 strand electric on t-posts, which are really friggen ugly, but get the job done


Hey...I resemble that remark.

 

Personally, I like the sleek, clean lines of a hi-tensile fence...thankyouverymuch.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 9, 2009)

Oh yeah, electric can look pretty!!
Now, we take pride in our pretty fenceline with the woven fence. My husband worked his tail off to pull that tight and to make that as strong and as straight as can be. He even paints the wooden posts! LOL.
Here though, with electric, every time the wind blows, I'd have to run to make sure a stick didn't fall and short the darn thing out,.... then I'd have to weed eat under it all the time to keep the grass from shorting it out,....just not for me,... I do have one strung around the garden and it works well to keep the critters out....


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## cmjust0 (Sep 9, 2009)

Just out of curiosity, what was the grounding system setup like on the easily-shorted fence?

My experience has been that about 90% of electric fence problems can be traced back to the grounding system in one way or another.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 9, 2009)

Nope, he put a substantial grounding rod into the ground.....I know that can be the problem, but where we live, we have just way too many variables to contend with...... one stick can ruin the whole thing,....LOL.


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## crazygoatlady (Sep 9, 2009)

tried the electric fence, as long as  Mocha could get her nose under the bottom wire, she would lay on her belly, close her eyes and crawl under it. they had grass on the other side, hay and water inside their area, but it must be a challenge for her. .  then the others watched her, some of them  would follow, others didn't.   There again, I think it has to do with the personality of the animal.  the wire has to be high enough so nothing can touch it- it knocked my daughters on their butts.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 9, 2009)

trestlecreek said:
			
		

> Nope, he put a substantial grounding rod into the ground.....I know that can be the problem, but where we live, we have just way too many variables to contend with...... one stick can ruin the whole thing,....LOL.


I put four 8' rods in the ground.  

You can't even _see_ our bottom wire anymore, but even when the grass is wet, any one of the hot wires will knock the snot out of ya.  

I did a little 'tempermanent' fencing around the chicken coop pop door area, mostly to keep the goats off the ramp and so we could throw cracked corn for scratch..  It's really thin polystrand, connected to a 17ga aluminum wire that runs waaaay over to one of the 12-1/2ga hi-t hot wires..  

My wife lost her balance and accidentally put her hand on the polystrand the other day...even though it's so far removed from the actual hi-tensile, it was still apparently something akin to a religious experience.

Ya know how they say chickens are somewhat immune to electric fences because their legs are 'dry' and they're covered in feathers...not true.  Nothing funnier than seeing a rooster put his foot on the fence to push it down, then go 'baGAWWWCKbawkbawkbawk' as he hotfoots it on across....for the 10th time in a day.


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## lupinfarm (Sep 9, 2009)

trestlecreek said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, electric can look pretty!!
> Now, we take pride in our pretty fenceline with the woven fence. My husband worked his tail off to pull that tight and to make that as strong and as straight as can be. He even paints the wooden posts! LOL.
> Here though, with electric, every time the wind blows, I'd have to run to make sure a stick didn't fall and short the darn thing out,.... then I'd have to weed eat under it all the time to keep the grass from shorting it out,....just not for me,... I do have one strung around the garden and it works well to keep the critters out....


It sounds like it wasn't low impedance. If you have a high impedance system, the more grass and foreign objects touch, it shorts. With Low Impedance, the system adjusts for however much energy plant matter that touches it draws away and therefore doesn't short (I'm probably wrong on the explanation, but I know how it works! LOL I have a Low Impedance system).


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## lupinfarm (Sep 9, 2009)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

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I have electric elsewhere too, I don't do the high tensile in the horse pasture, I've got the electric polyrope for the field in most spots, but I prefer the look of wood fencing and the look of security it has. Luna won't try the electric, but she won't try the wood either  

As for the goats, it's mainly because their pasture is near the house and the house has to look nice and pretty for the dog breeding business, so their fencing has to look nice and pretty too.


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## Shoshana (Feb 4, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Hobby Farm said:
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> > Obviously, I'll be here to help no matter what you choose, but I'll tell you this...hi tensile fence is one of those rare, beautiful things in life that I've come to appreciate from a lot of different angles..


Hi there!  Thanks for the info on electric fencing.  I'm totally sold.  We're bringing home three Nigerian dwarf doelings soon and I've got the area I want to fence all prepared.  I'm confused about what wire to buy, though.  

I'm pretty sure I don't want the polywire/tape, as it seems it won't last as long as regular wire.  However, the wire at Jeffers, which is in my backyard, comes in galvanized and aluminum.  

Just to give you an idea of our setup... we won't have any livestock bigger than the Nigis (about 75 lbs as adults, and about 22" at the withers).  The first area to be fenced is about 330' x 150', and is partially pasture and partially woods (we used a brush hog thingamajiggy to clear a path) in Southeastern Alabama.  Our biggest predator problem [for the goats] is probably going to be stray dogs, although an occasional coyote or bobcat has been spotted south of here.  We are actually just inside the city limits, where town meets country.  We ARE going to have chickens.  

Jeffers is in my backyard, and has much better deals than TSC, Lowes, or Home Depot, and more selection than my Co-Op, so Jeffers is where I'm shopping.  

I am planning, barring a better suggestion, on running a 5-wire fence, all hot, at 6", 8", 10", 12", and 12".

My questions are:  

1)  I'm toying with the idea of running a 6-wire fence instead, with closer spacing between wires, but holding off on adding the sixth wire for a few months (budget), and am wondering if I can do this as the goats wont' be full grown for a while.  

2) Galvanized or aluminum? I get that aluminum conducts better and, according to Jeffers, is 'never rust', but which is stronger?  Does it matter with little goats? When a tree goes down on the fence, will one pop back up better than the other?  

3) On a related note... fiberglass or steel posts for the fenceline?  Theres a Wedge-Loc kit to turn steel T-posts into corner posts... has anyone used this, or is it a safer bet to just place the wooden posts for the corners?

4) Is 12 1/2 gauge wire really necessary when I will never have the room or inclination for large livestock (very small pasture, most of my land is browse)?  My other, more economical, options include 14, 15, or 17 gauge (break loads of 215, 150, and 90 lbs respectively for the aluminum).   

and finally,

5) Concerning the charger, do all charges run on a pulse, or are some a steady current?  With the chickens, especially, I want something they could let go of before they get electrocuted.  Is this what 'low impedence' means?  About half of the fence will be run through wooded areas, and while we plan to walk the fence routinely with a weed whacker and chain saw, I've read something about chargers that will 'burn' through weeds, or where weeds or grass won't 'short out' the fence.  I'd like to know which type of charger this is, and if it is one of the pulsing current deals...

This forum has been an amazing resource for us, and I want to thank all of you for the wisdom you leave here for clueless folks like me who want to learn.  

~Shoshana


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## Lil Chickie Mama (Feb 4, 2010)

Shoshana said:
			
		

> Jeffers is in my backyard, and has much better deals than TSC, Lowes, or Home Depot, and more selection than my Co-Op, so Jeffers is where I'm shopping.


 no fair... wish we had a Jeffers here! 


			
				Shoshana said:
			
		

> We're bringing home three Nigerian dwarf doelings soon and I've got the area I want to fence all prepared.
> Just to give you an idea of our setup... we won't have any livestock bigger than the Nigis (about 75 lbs as adults, and about 22" at the withers).
> I am planning, barring a better suggestion, on running a 5-wire fence, all hot, at 6", 8", 10", 12", and 12".


Someone else may have a better suggestion, but I would think the lowest strand needs to be closer to the ground.  Nigi babies are tiny which you'd need to take into consideration if you will be breeding them.  I don't know anything about fencing but, it seems goats are quite the escape artists.


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## Roll farms (Feb 4, 2010)

> Concerning the charger, do all charges run on a pulse, or are some a steady current?  With the chickens, especially, I want something they could let go of before they get electrocuted.  Is this what 'low impedence' means?  About half of the fence will be run through wooded areas, and while we plan to walk the fence routinely with a weed whacker and chain saw, I've read something about chargers that will 'burn' through weeds, or where weeds or grass won't 'short out' the fence.  I'd like to know which type of charger this is, and if it is one of the pulsing current deals...


Low-impedence means that the more interference the fence has from weeds, etc., the more it will compensate for it and increase charge.

So it sounds like you need Low-impedence, for many reasons....

Our "book" at TSC recommends a low-impedence AC controller for goats.

(Can you believe they're considered 'stubborn'...)

The pulse w/ all chargers is 'safe' so that the animal has a chance to get away during the 'off' part of the cycle.  Picture flicking a switch on and off, that's how the pulse runs.  All chargers run on a pulse.

The fencing book also recommends the L.I. AC for high tensile b/c of the splices...the more splices in a fence, the more it robs from the charger.

As far as wire size, the larger the diameter of the wire, the easier the current can flow through it.

The wire has to be strong enough to bear the # load needed to keep it from sagging.  The book recommends 250#, so it doesn't sound like the lower gage aluminum will work for true, high-tensile fencing.  You might get by with the 14 ga. and posts closer together.

I would use wooden posts for the corners.  Natural disasters (trees, etc.) seem to have fence radar....I'd also use steel posts rather than fiberglass, I'd just feel 'safer'...our fiberglass posts get awful sloppy in spring when the ground thaws.

(We have a 5' chain link fence that kept horses, alpacas, and llamas in just FINE...but that the goats laughed at and went over, under, etc...until we lined the inside w/ a hot wire.  HAHAHAHA goats.)

Hope that helps...


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## cmjust0 (Feb 4, 2010)

> ...
> I am planning, barring a better suggestion, on running a 5-wire fence, all hot, at 6", 8", 10", 12", and 12".
> ...
> 1)  I'm toying with the idea of running a 6-wire fence instead, with closer spacing between wires, but holding off on adding the sixth wire for a few months (budget), and am wondering if I can do this as the goats wont' be full grown for a while.


Mine's six wires on 9" intervals for a total of 4-1/2'..  From the bottom, it goes hot-ground-hot-ground-ground-hot.  I actually have some cross-fence that's four wires on 12" intervals (hot-hot-cold-hot) that works pretty well for goats...though occasionally it'll go over a gap that gets a little too high, and you'll have someone slip through.

It's just cross fencing, though.  



> 2) Galvanized or aluminum? I get that aluminum conducts better and, according to Jeffers, is 'never rust', but which is stronger?  Does it matter with little goats? When a tree goes down on the fence, will one pop back up better than the other?


I hate aluminum wire.  I mean, I _hate_ it.  It kinks, it's nearly impossible to tighten effectively, and retightening it is totally out of the question..  To me, the inability to retighten is the worst part because it sags in no time flat.  

As galvanized and what pops back up better...more on that in a sec.



> 3) On a related note... fiberglass or steel posts for the fenceline?  Theres a Wedge-Loc kit to turn steel T-posts into corner posts... has anyone used this, or is it a safer bet to just place the wooden posts for the corners?


I like steel line posts.  Fiberglass posts, to me, are only good if you're running very temporary fencing.  T-posts hang on to the ground a little better.  

Also, if your fence is permanent, go ahead and bury wood corners.  I've used the wedge-loks, and they're actually pretty cool for temporary fencing...but if you're putting up permanent electric fencing, it has to stay tight..  If you put a constant strain on a t-posts, it _will_ eventually come out of the ground.



> 4) Is 12 1/2 gauge wire really necessary when I will never have the room or inclination for large livestock (very small pasture, most of my land is browse)?  My other, more economical, options include 14, 15, or 17 gauge (break loads of 215, 150, and 90 lbs respectively for the aluminum).


Choosing 12-1/2 guage hi-tensile wire isn't all about break strength versus other wires, as it's pretty much a psychological barrier anyway.  Choosing hi-tensile, for me, was about longevity..  

Most hi-tensile wire is triple galvanized...it will last 50-60 years, no problem.  It can be tightened and retightened over and over again, and can even be taken down and re-used if necessary.  Hi-tensile _will_ bounce back if it gets hit by a limb -- aluminum or non-hi-tensile galv steel won't.  Bottom line is that while it may cost more, it's nearly indestructable, and your maintenance cost and effort will be a fraction of what it would be if you went with aluminum or cheaper galvanized wire.

For instance...probably the thing that most convinced me that hi-tensile was the way to go was when I actually saw -- with my own two eyes -- a wrecked car sitting in a field on the other side of a hi-tensile fence.  The tire marks clearly went off the road, through the fence _at a point where a wood post was standing_, and right up to where the car came to rest..  

The fence was still there.  I was confused, to say the least, at how someone had gotten out to repair their fence before the daggone car was even out of the field..

As I looked more closely, I realized that the wood post was broken off at the ground and had been sprung back into place by the fence.

What happened was that the car went off the road, hit the post and broke it, so the post pushed the fence down as the car went over...  When the car was clear of the fence, it sprang back up and the post went right back where it was before.

That's when I said...yep...that's the way to go!

As it happens, the fence is on the outside of a bad curve..  I've seen at least three cars go through that fence, and the worst damage I ever saw were two broken wires.  That's it.

What I'm getting at, I guess, is that it really doesn't matter what you're containing...  Folks don't often realize what a beating a fence takes not only from animals, but from heat, cold, rain, falling limbs, debris, and perhaps the biggest enemy of all -- GRAVITY..  Installing hi-tensile is extremely economical because, not only is it much cheaper than traditional woven wire, it's also many times more resilient and long-lasting!



> 5) Concerning the charger, do all charges run on a pulse, or are some a steady current?  With the chickens, especially, I want something they could let go of before they get electrocuted.  Is this what 'low impedence' means?  About half of the fence will be run through wooded areas, and while we plan to walk the fence routinely with a weed whacker and chain saw, I've read something about chargers that will 'burn' through weeds, or where weeds or grass won't 'short out' the fence.  I'd like to know which type of charger this is, and if it is one of the pulsing current deals...


Some are still steady current these days, but the vast majority of what you'll find are pulse chargers.

Low impedence basically means the charger is efficient at supplying current to the fence.  There's a whole big explanation behind it all, some of which I don't entirely understand, but here's the deal....take a "low-impedence" label to mean that the fence does a little better job handling wet weeds, vines, and crap like that while maintaining it's animal-shocking ability.  Some folks use the terms low-impedence and "weed burners" sort of interchangeably, though any electric fence will need to be cleared of weeds and other crap periodically.

I always recommend a fence charger of 2-joules or better in almost any application involving goats.  Generally, that means a "50 mile" charger or somewhere thereabout.  

The other thing I recommend -- and I can't stress this highly enough -- is to go all out on your ground system.  Go nuts, because your ground system is literally half your electric fence.  It can never be _too_ good to "overbuilt," because probably 90% of the problems you hear about with electric fencing can be traced back to inadequate grounding.

I buried four 8' ground rods and, even though you can't even _see_ my bottom wire in a lot of places, my fence still tests out at 5Kv+ pretty reliably with a $100 Zareba 50mi charger from TSC.

Just my opinions.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 4, 2010)

Lil Chickie Mama said:
			
		

> Someone else may have a better suggestion, but I would think the lowest strand needs to be closer to the ground.  Nigi babies are tiny which you'd need to take into consideration if you will be breeding them.  I don't know anything about fencing but, it seems goats are quite the escape artists.


The good thing about baby escapees is that they're usually crying for a way back _in_ before you ever realized they were _out_.

Around here, we call kid- or calf-sized gaps in fencing a "neighborgrass creepfeeding" system.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 4, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> The wire has to be strong enough to bear the # load needed to keep it from sagging.  The book recommends 250#, so it doesn't sound like the lower gage aluminum will work for true, high-tensile fencing.  You might get by with the 14 ga. and posts closer together.


Something to note here is that "hi-tensile" isn't just the name of the fence system; it describes the nature of the wire itself.  More specifically, the nature of the steel in the wire.

Hi-tensile fence wire is wire made of high tensile steel.  That's very, very important to how the fence system works overall.

Something else that's important to keep in mind is that it's hi-tensile, not necessarily _high tension!_  That is to say, you don't have to crank your fence wires up like banjo strings.  Indeed, doing so usually only causes undue strain on the fixed fence components like corner posts, valley posts, insulators, etc.  

I just had to replace an insulator on a valley post last night because I had my bottom wire cranked up too tight and it snapped it off the post.  I suspect the cold weather tightened it up a bit, too, so when I replaced the insulator, I slacked the bottom wire up a bit to reduce the strain on the insulator.

The wires really don't have to be under tremendous strain to work, either..  They really only need to be tight enough not to sag onto one another.

Now...so far as using non-high-tensile steel wires to try and construct a hi-tensile type fence system...it won't function the same as a hi-tensile fence will.  No matter the diameter of non-high-tensile wire, once it stretches, it's permanently stretched.  That comes into play when something has impact with the fence.  While it's true that a regular 14ga wire may do a better job of not breaking under the weight of a giant dropped limb than a 17ga aluminum wire, the fact remains that when you remove the limb, regular steel wire isn't not going to bounce back like high tensile wire would.  

Resiliency is one of the key aspects of hi-tensile fences that make them so economical, because they're much easier -- and cheaper! -- to maintain.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 4, 2010)

Just a side note...  Two of the most common problems with hi-tensile fence installations are:

1)  Wires being tacked tight to the posts, as you would do with woven wire.  The wires need to be stapled loosely on posts so they can tighten or loosen as necessary.

2)  Wires being too tight.


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## lupinfarm (Feb 4, 2010)

Also with the high tensile, it IS recommended you use the little plastic tubes as "insulators" to run the wire through. They're pretty cheap.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 4, 2010)

Do you have any useful links with instructions on installing a high-tensile fence?


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## Roll farms (Feb 4, 2010)

http://www.fishock.com/advice

http://www.tractorsupply.com/content/knowhow/fencing/fencing_install_a_high_tensile_fence


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## cmjust0 (Feb 4, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> Also with the high tensile, it IS recommended you use the little plastic tubes as "insulators" to run the wire through. They're pretty cheap.


Absolutely...just don't take the insulator tight to the post with the wire in it.  

If I'm thinking of the tubes you're thinking of, they actually have three little 'fins' on them and are sorta triangularly shaped on the outside..  One side lays against the post and those two fins sorta grip a little to the post, and then you nail the staple in just enough to bend the outside fin, which holds the tube in place against the staple.  That way, the wire can slip through the tube, but the tube stays put against the post where it should be.

For anyone going  right now, trust me...it would make a lot more sense if you actually do it or see it done.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 4, 2010)

from TSC's site said:
			
		

> Heres what youll need:
> 
> Cement
> Pressure-treated wood posts
> ...


The things in bold are things you *don't* actually need.

No time to explain at the moment, but trust me.....this list should be called "Here's what we'd like to sell you."



More later..


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## RockyToggRanch (Feb 6, 2010)

My main goat yard is no climb horse fence. I just put up a temporary fence in the fall, so I could seperate my animals when needed. I went with the general purpose fence and now I regret it.
A 125lb togg doe (or 2) greeting me at the fence..the general purpose fence is way too flimsy. The horse fence is my choice and 6" wooden posts.  It might be okay for shorter goats ?


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