# contagious ecthyma



## nstone630 (Jul 24, 2021)

Anyone know much about sore mouth? I picked up a 3 mo old doeling yesterday and the more I watch her the more I am worried she might have the start of sore mouth. I've never dealt with it and the pictures online are horrific. I need to get a good picture. Her little bumps are not quite sores. But noticeable enough I am paying attention. I have her separated from the rest of my tiny herd.

From what I've read IF it is sore mouth, 1. keep our hands washed, and 2. It will just have to runs its course.

I will try to get a better upload pic of her nose and post.


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## Alaskan (Jul 24, 2021)

I never had that.

Sounds scary.

Keep us updated as to how it goes. 

Is it possible that she stuck her face in a pricker bush,or something similar?


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## nstone630 (Jul 24, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> I never had that.
> 
> Sounds scary.
> 
> ...


I REALLY hope that's all it is...I'd rather it be literally anything than Sore Mouth. Ant hill, bryar patch, just her lil albino skin... whatever it may be...except Sore Mouth. But I am being cautious. Hoping someone with more experience can comment so that I feel more comfortable letting her in with mt herd bc she is so pitiful and lonely.


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## Alaskan (Jul 24, 2021)

@misfitmorgan @B&B Happy goats ??

Guesses?


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## Mini Horses (Jul 25, 2021)

At this point it's hard to say but, you are right to keep her lonely a little longer!   It will get better or worse.....then a decision can be made on what it is and treatment.   You should see changes within a day or two.


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## nstone630 (Jul 25, 2021)

Today's update. Not really any worse or better, which I guess is better than it being worse.


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## Mini Horses (Jul 25, 2021)

Yes, better than if worse.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 26, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> @misfitmorgan @B&B Happy goats ??
> 
> Guesses?


My guesses are either dermatophilosis or sore mouth, leaning more towards the beginnings of dermatophilosis though.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/integumentary-system/dermatophilosis/dermatophilosis-in-animals

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...goat-kids-with-dermatophilosis_fig2_346549022

Both are contagious to humans so be careful caring for her and when she is all healed up clean everything she could have touched with strong bleach water.

And keep separate for sure.


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## nstone630 (Jul 26, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> My guesses are either dermatophilosis or sore mouth, leaning more towards the beginnings of dermatophilosis though.
> https://www.merckvetmanual.com/integumentary-system/dermatophilosis/dermatophilosis-in-animals
> 
> https://www.researchgate.net/figure...goat-kids-with-dermatophilosis_fig2_346549022
> ...


This was VERY helpful! Thank you so much. After reading the article, I am leaning also towards dermatophilosis. I may have my vet come out and inquire about a culture and antibiotics. 

Greatly appreciate the advice!!
Looks like poor lil bit is going to be lonely a little while longer.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 26, 2021)

nstone630 said:


> This was VERY helpful! Thank you so much. After reading the article, I am leaning also towards dermatophilosis. I may have my vet come out and inquire about a culture and antibiotics.
> 
> Greatly appreciate the advice!!
> Looks like poor lil bit is going to be lonely a little while longer.



I'm glad I could be of help. Let us know how things turn out for her!


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## nstone630 (Jul 27, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> I'm glad I could be of help. Let us know how things turn out for her!


Vet came out today. Said classic presentation for sore mouth. Says since there is no secondary bacterial infection is why it doesn't look near as bad as all pictures I see on line. So I need to keep it clean, carefully as not to get it myself. And it will run its course in 3-4 wks.


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## Alaskan (Jul 27, 2021)

nstone630 said:


> Vet came out today. Said classic presentation for sore mouth. Says since there is no secondary bacterial infection is why it doesn't look near as bad as all pictures I see on line. So I need to keep it clean, carefully as not to get it myself. And it will run its course in 3-4 wks.


Well...nice to know for sure.

Keep us updated.

Poor girl.


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## misfitmorgan (Jul 28, 2021)

nstone630 said:


> Vet came out today. Said classic presentation for sore mouth. Says since there is no secondary bacterial infection is why it doesn't look near as bad as all pictures I see on line. So I need to keep it clean, carefully as not to get it myself. And it will run its course in 3-4 wks.


Good to know. It not looking bad is the same reason I was thinking it was not sore mouth, least it isnt so bad looking and quicker recovery probly.


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## nstone630 (Jul 31, 2021)

It seems to be getting better pretty quick. 
So hard to get a good picture she moves around so much haha. 
She is doing so good, eating and hydrating. 
Those ears haha
I am going to keep her separated for at least another week just to be safe and watch her closely.


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## Alaskan (Aug 1, 2021)

nstone630 said:


> It seems to be getting better pretty quick.
> So hard to get a good picture she moves around so much haha.
> She is doing so good, eating and hydrating.
> Those ears haha
> I am going to keep her separated for at least another week just to be safe and watch her closely.


I most excellent update!!!


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## Baymule (Aug 7, 2021)

I may be out of line here, please correct me, if so. If your herd is healthy and doesn’t have sore mouth, then why on earth would you keep this animal? Her symptoms may go away, but she still has the virus. Granted, I have not had to deal with this-and never want to. I guess I’m asking those who have responded (and have vastly more knowledge than I do)  will she pass the virus to her offspring? I’ve seen pictures of new lambs and kids with sore mouth. If it didn’t pass through the placenta, then where did it come from?

Again I may be out of line here, please accept my apologies if I offend or hurt your feelings. This goat will always have the virus. If I’m correct, she will pass it to her offspring, then you go through the whole separation and isolation again, while trying not to contract it yourself. Possible contamination of your property and spread to your other goats. Am I being a little too dramatic or can this really happen? I’m so sorry, no matter how cute, beautiful or adorable she is, she wouldn’t stay on my place.
I wish you the best with her. Have you contacted the people you got her from? Did they knowingly sell you a goat with sore mouth? I’d be mighty PO’ed. I’ll shut up now.


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## Alaskan (Aug 7, 2021)

Baymule said:


> I may be out of line here, please correct me, if so. If your herd is healthy and doesn’t have sore mouth, then why on earth would you keep this animal? Her symptoms may go away, but she still has the virus. Granted, I have not had to deal with this-and never want to. I guess I’m asking those who have responded (and have vastly more knowledge than I do)  will she pass the virus to her offspring? I’ve seen pictures of new lambs and kids with sore mouth. If it didn’t pass through the placenta, then where did it come from?
> 
> Again I may be out of line here, please accept my apologies if I offend or hurt your feelings. This goat will always have the virus. If I’m correct, she will pass it to her offspring, then you go through the whole separation and isolation again, while trying not to contract it yourself. Possible contamination of your property and spread to your other goats. Am I being a little too dramatic or can this really happen? I’m so sorry, no matter how cute, beautiful or adorable she is, she wouldn’t stay on my place.
> I wish you the best with her. Have you contacted the people you got her from? Did they knowingly sell you a goat with sore mouth? I’d be mighty PO’ed. I’ll shut up now.


I hadn't even considered that!!!!


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 9, 2021)

To the best of my knowledge the infected goat will have immunity for at least 1 year, but after that can get sore mouth(orf) again if exposed to it. So long as the entire area she is in is disinfected very very well and all bedding is disposed of safely without leaving anything behind the rest of the herd should not get orf. Sore mouth can survive on bedding, stalls and pastures for up to 17yrs in dry climates. As far as her spreading it to your herd, it doesnt seem likely once she is totally healed up. So long as she has nothing contagious on her, hair, hooves, ears, etc she should be safe. So long as no animals are brought in with orf and exposed to the rest of the herd you should not have a problem. Orf is a virus so as long as nothing brings the virus to the herd they are "clean" and you will not have any other problems with orf.

Also NEVER vaccinate a herd that does not have orf with orf vaccines, it is a live virus and will give your entire herd orf, which is good for immunity but very very bad for your barn/pasture as it will harbor the virus for years and you will forever have a problem with orf.

As mentioned this is to the best of my understanding, if someone knows something more or different please do share.


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## Baymule (Aug 9, 2021)

Thanks for the input @misfitmorgan I believe the OP needs to know this information in order to make an informed decision to keep the goat or not. 

Can't the goat spread the virus to her offspring? I've seen pictures of lambs with sores on their little mouths and too sore to nurse. If then didn't get it from their moms, then where did it come from? Based on this, I just wouldn't keep that goat.

Good point on the vaccination.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 9, 2021)

Baymule said:


> Thanks for the input @misfitmorgan I believe the OP needs to know this information in order to make an informed decision to keep the goat or not.
> 
> Can't the goat spread the virus to her offspring? I've seen pictures of lambs with sores on their little mouths and too sore to nurse. If then didn't get it from their moms, then where did it come from? Based on this, I just wouldn't keep that goat.
> 
> Good point on the vaccination.


As far as I know they can't get it from their mom unless the mom actively has cores. The farms that I know that deal with orf get it in their lambs due to contamination/infectious materials on bedding, pasture, stalls, feed bunks, buckets, etc. A surprising number of operations in the US keep livestock with orf because it doesnt usually kill the livestock and 43% of the livestock in the US currently has orf. The larger your herd the more likley you will come across it. So long as they do no have sores when you buy them and you quarantine properly before introducing to your flock you should be ok.

I would like to think I personally would not keep an animal with orf in my herd but I can see why larger operations do, with replacing stock and males from outside sources it is just a thing that happens I guess. When we go commercial I am expecting to come across orf.


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## nstone630 (Aug 12, 2021)

Tons of VERY useful information and I am thankful for all of it. Feeling not easily hurt here! 

So entire barn has been disinfected as instructed by vet and everything found online as to not spread it. Since it does not kill livestock it can be controlled from my understanding. As long as goat is not in active infection she should not spread it. My new understanding is that it can be spread from infection from mouth, bedding, feed, and also infected udders. 

So, all that being said. I have 5 goats. Not 50. I feel this should be easy to control. I really hope I haven't jinx myself. As the new goat (name yet to be determined) is 110% healed up, never got secondary bacterial infection and is seemingly good to go. 

We all live and learn, and I will by this. My 2 males are in a separate pasture completely. She is in a pasture with my only other female. So worse case I have 2 with an issue.

Thank you again for all the genuine information and concern. It is all taken and no offense taken. We have had our share of hard times learning goats here. 

Please enjoy today's photos of the newbie.


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## Baymule (Aug 12, 2021)

I’m glad your goat is healed up and seems to be no problem. Also glad you don’t take offense when in the midst of a discussion. We share knowledge and opinions here, we don’t always agree, but we are always friends. You pick through all the advice and apply what fits you and your situation.


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## misfitmorgan (Aug 15, 2021)

So glad she is all healed up and doing well! She sure is cute and seems like a good addition to your herd. With so few goats and after doing the disinfecting I don't think you are going to have issues and even if you do as I and yourself mentioned while orf is a pain in the butt from what I have seen it is not life threatening.


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## Mini Horses (Aug 15, 2021)

misfitmorgan said:


> while orf is a pain in the butt from what I have seen it is not life threatening.


This is true of several of the virus and bacteria that farms deal with if livestock is there.  Much is soil harbored, something not seen one known.  It doesn't mean you aren't a good animal or land steward, just life.  You learn the best way to deal with it.  I liken much of it to humans who contract a cold or flu, or??  

I'm always blessed to have BTDT or have others who have and share.  

You girl is a cutie and looks well healed!


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