# Bloat?



## nstone630 (Nov 15, 2016)

I have had a very hard time with goats. I'm technically a new goat owner, if over a year is still considered new. I've had 4 goats die. I'm left with 2. 

I purchased 3 at an auction about 4 months ago. 2 died from worms within a week (fecal test confirmed MASSIVE amounts), purchased them at an auction and I believe they were just too far gone at that point. No wonder they were cheap. Treated with Ivermectin drench and just couldn't get them to make a full recovery. 

The 1 that lived, seemingly healthier than the other even at purchase was happy and healthy until this morning. I called her Nelly, as she was a Nervous Nelly. Pretty and as nice as could be. She would have been almost a year next month. As of last night, she was still her talkative friendly self. 

We found her this morning almost unresponsive. Shallow breaths, with a moan or cry with each one. She would move her head slightly but almost as if she was paralyzed. She had a big belly, but nothing abnormally large that I would have though bloat, and it was not localized to the left side. I can't think of anything else it might be??? She had no diarrhea, eye lids were normal, she was not lethargic, she was eating and drinking normally.

That being said, I have another doe who is looking quite large, and I'm hoping she's finally pregnant. She's a year and a half old. But, now I'm super scared that she may have something wrong with her too. 

Besides a necorpsy there is no way to know what really happened. So out of the 6 goats I've tried to raise, I have 2 left. I'm feeling I've lost the battle, and want to give up trying.  I just can't emotionally handle these poor things dieing. When someone said "goats are hard"...I just never realized. 

Thanks for any ideas on what it could have been...


----------



## luvmypets (Nov 15, 2016)

Im sorry I cannot be of any help but I will tag a few people @babsbag @Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice 

Im so sorry you have had such a rough go of things  I too had trouble in the begginning with my sheep, lost more than I wouldve hoped too. I suggest when purchasing your next goats don't go to an auction. There are some sketchy people there who sell very sickly animals just for a few bucks.


----------



## samssimonsays (Nov 15, 2016)

I have not had experience in this area but HUGS!!! 

I went through people who had been raising for years and even with a controlled worm load at the time of purchase, a bloom happens shortly after the stress of the move. IF you go through with getting anymore goats, have yours tested for CAE, CL and Johnes before bringing in anything new as well as a quarantine area for the new animals who should be tested clean as well to avoid the added heartbreak. Even with buying from a reputable breeder with healthy animals there is no guarantee but it will be a better foot forward with peace of mind knowing that they had a good start and the other animals are also healthy.


----------



## babsbag (Nov 15, 2016)

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time with goats.  You probably know this now, but buying a goat at an auction is not a great idea. It would be much better to find a breeder that knows what they are doing and is willing to work with you and help you be successful. I bought my first goats off of Craigslist so not much better than an auction sometimes, but I got lucky and my goats were healthy, but I had NO IDEA what I was doing. I found a good vet and a good mentor and that made a huge difference in my success or failure. 

There is no way to know what happened without a necropsy. I would consider having one done if you can. If not all you can do is try to weed out the possibilities. Was she current on her CDT shots? Was there any chance she got into some bad feed or hay...moldy? Any chance she got into chicken feed or excessive grain?  

Bloat will interfere with their breathing and it is painful. I am sorry you lost your Nellie. Goats are hard in the sense that they don't show signs of sickness until they are often really really sick. I have had them die overnight as well, fine at night, dead in the morning. It stinks.


----------



## nstone630 (Nov 15, 2016)

Thank you guys for the nice response. I'm going to call my vet and see about having the 2 remaining goats testing for all 3. After that...go from there. If I didn't and I just brought more goats on board, I'd be asking for more heartbreak with no one to blame but my self for being so selfish. 

I will strongly shy away from auctions. Although this is a nice way to get an inexpensive goat, you get what you pay for. By now I was hoping to have the breeding process underway and not have to purchase anymore. I can't get my buck and doe to take...it's been a year. I thought bringing a few more does in the pen might weed out what the problem was. But, now I'm down to the same doe that doesn't seem to want to give it up, even though he is quite the stinky, harassing suitor. 

From what I've read up on the CL, CAE and Johnes they are all blood tests. I'll see what the vet says is the best route in obtaining those samples. I've given injections and taken fecal samples before, but never drawn blood.


----------



## babsbag (Nov 15, 2016)

You said you have one that you think is bred?  You can get a blood test for that too. I used Sage Ag Labs and they can test for all of it.  Is she living with the buck? 

Chances are VERY VERY VERY good that your goat did not die from CL, CAE, or Johnes but it is good to test for all of those.


----------



## norseofcourse (Nov 15, 2016)

Just wanted to say I'm sorry you've had such a rough time with your goats, losing them is always hard   

I got my first two sheep off Craigslist a little under 4 years ago, and it's been a combination of good mentors (including many here), a good vet, and a healthy dose of luck that they've done well.  I still feel like a beginner sometimes.  There are situations I have not dealt with yet, and there is so much more to learn - there always will be.

I think it's great that you're still hanging in there and want to do the best for your goats - I hope things start going well for you!


----------



## Hens and Roos (Nov 15, 2016)

so sorry for your loss


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Nov 15, 2016)

I am so sorry 

Most of these goats at the auctions have odds stacked against them, not your fault, people who sell at auctions just do it for a quick $. 

I don't know what breeds you raise, but by the looks of your avatar I'd guess boer or boer x. Aren't you in NC?  Unfortunately boers really don't do well here  Many people own them but they will all tell you to expect to find one dead every now and then. We were looking at boers but breeder after breeder told us the same thing. 

This goat could have died from many things. Without a necropsy it is hard to know. 

I would go ahead and have their fecals checked, and go ahead and test for the above diseases. From your post I don't think any of those caused the death of your goat. 

Look for a breeder that can help mentor, someone that is willing to teach and help brainstorm when these issues arrive. I would recommend you learn how to check fecals yourself, it is well worth the time and money! I agree with the others on buying from a tested herd! 

Again, I am so sorry for your loss.


----------



## nstone630 (Nov 16, 2016)

babsbag said:


> You said you have one that you think is bred?  You can get a blood test for that too. I used Sage Ag Labs and they can test for all of it.  Is she living with the buck?
> 
> Chances are VERY VERY VERY good that your goat did not die from CL, CAE, or Johnes but it is good to test for all of those.


I'm hoping "Moon Pie" is preggers, she's been living with the buck since we got her. Doesn't seem to have any interest in him at all.

I have a vet coming to the house Monday to draw blood, and they will possibly do an ultra sound on her.


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Nov 16, 2016)

nstone630 said:


> I'm hoping "Moon Pie" is preggers, she's been living with the buck since we got her. Doesn't seem to have any interest in him at all.
> 
> I have a vet coming to the house Monday to draw blood, and they will possibly do an ultra sound on her.


There is a blood pregnancy test that most labs testing for CAE, etc. can perform. It should be cheaper than an ultrasound unless you want to have a better idea on how far along she is, which the pregnancy test wouldn't tell you.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Nov 16, 2016)

X2


----------



## nstone630 (Nov 16, 2016)

Also, when I inspected the body after I got home from work yesterday evening the ONLY visible things were she had blood coming from her rectum and her vagina was protruding badly, almost looking like a balloon. I'd say sorry for the TMI, but we all raise animals, I think we all know there is a lot of gross stuff that comes with it. She had hard fecal pellets around her as well, again no diarrhea. 
I do have photos, but I'm unsure if that would be ideal to share, they are a bit graphic. 
She had no wounds, and didn't look "bloated".


----------



## nstone630 (Nov 16, 2016)

I raise boer. Well, I'm trying to. The poor guy in my picture with his head turned, who I called Paper Towel Roll (PTR) for short since his earls looked like them, died from a horrible worm infestation that fecal test after fecal test I just couldn't beat for him. They are brothers. The other seemingly true Boer is "Smokey" he had almost just as bad a battle, took months of meds and fecal tests to get him right. He pulled through and now if my only buck. All the others I purchased from the auction were also Boer Does. I should have known a $40 Doe was too good to be true. Looks like where ever they came from didn't care for them AT ALL from birth until then. 

I'm saddened to hear Boer goats don't do well in NC (I'm in Person County). Does anyone have tips on what breeds do better? I'm trying my best not to just give up on this. I do want to be a successful goat farmer


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Nov 16, 2016)

nstone630 said:


> I'm saddened to hear Boer goats don't do well in NC (I'm in Person County). Does anyone have tips on what breeds do better? I'm trying my best not to just give up on this. I do want to be a successful goat farmer


I think @Southern by choice and @Goat Whisperer raise Kikos (if it's meat goats you want) which are supposed to be much hardier and more parasite resistant than Boers.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 16, 2016)

We aren't that far from you. You should visit.We have Boer farms around us so I see what most deal with. We raise Kikos.
Before we got into meat goats I talked extensively with Dr. L from NC State. After that it was a no brainer. Bo-Ki's tend to do pretty well if the Boer in the breeding was a good animal. And by good I don't mean "lots of money".


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Nov 16, 2016)

I second SBC's comment. 

All goats can and will get parasites, managing them is key. That being said some do better than others. 

What is your purpose in raising goats? Meat, milk, pets, showing? Not all goats are created equal but there is a goat for every need  Go over and look at your goal for raising goats and then we can go from there.


----------



## nstone630 (Nov 17, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> I second SBC's comment.
> 
> All goats can and will get parasites, managing them is key. That being said some do better than others.
> 
> What is your purpose in raising goats? Meat, milk, pets, showing? Not all goats are created equal but there is a goat for every need  Go over and look at your goal for raising goats and then we can go from there.



Long term goal is to have them for meat and milk.


----------



## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

Maybe look into one of the full size dairy goats (Nubians,  Alpine,  Lamancha,  etc.) A lot of people use the excess offspring for meat. Some people cross a Boer or Kiko buck with a dairy doe,  but I've also heard some concerns about does being able to kid safely.  No personal experience here. I have little goats! I am getting a Pygmy buck to cross with my Nigerians and mini alpines to put a little excess meat on the kids.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 17, 2016)

nstone630 said:


> Long term goal is to have them for meat and milk.



If that is your long term goal then Kiko's are your best option.
Kiko's were developed by taking the TOP dairy goats in NZ and crossing them with the feral goats in NZ.

They are truly a dual purpose breed.
I know our kikos have beautiful udders.
One year we bred our Kiko doe to one of our Lamancha bucks.

Kikos can produce 2-3 kids and raise them without creep feeds etc.

They are extremely hardy but husbandry and management are still important. They do best with land. They are not the best hay eaters and thrive on land. Trees, ground cover, vines etc.


----------



## babsbag (Nov 17, 2016)

There are quite a few people out in my part of CA that breed their dairy stock to Boer bucks. I've done it quite a few times myself.  Kidding difficulties are no more prevalent than breeding dairy to dairy bucks, the kids are very very similar in size when born.


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Nov 17, 2016)

babsbag said:


> There are quite a few people out in my part of CA that breed their dairy stock to Boer bucks. I've done it quite a few times myself.  Kidding difficulties are no more prevalent than breeding dairy to dairy bucks, the kids are very very similar in size when born.


Why is that done? Just FF?


----------



## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

Good to know! The idea always interested me but a lady I met said her dairy does had issues with kidding.  Her boer was HUGE though!


----------



## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

Dual purpose kids, if you're homesteading like me or aren't breeding for replacement milkers  or showing. Boer puts some meat on the kids.  It's totally the  way I would go if I ever go  into full size goats


----------



## babsbag (Nov 17, 2016)

@Green Acres Farm Mostly it is done because it is easier to sell a chunky kid for meat than a lean dairy kid. There is a much bigger market for meat goats than there is for dairy. The dairy does have more milk, the kids typically grow faster, and if you need extra milk for other kids you will have it. It seems that every year Boer producers are looking for dairy does in milk to supplement their kids so a lot of them just keep them with their herd. Boers can be really crappy milkers.  For about 4 years I had a Boer buck and would always breed a few of my Alpines to it for meat for our freezer. I had Boer does too but I was selling their kids as market wethers or breeders.


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 17, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Dual purpose kids, if you're homesteading like me or aren't breeding for replacement milkers  or showing. Boer puts some meat on the kids.  It's totally the  way I would go if I ever go  into full size goats



The Kiko IS a dual purpose meat and dairy goat and was bred specifically for that purpose.

If raising kids for the meat market the yield on a kiko is better. They grow to wean weight faster and without feed feed feed. The dams can raise twins and trips with ease. Not prone to kidding issues and they pretty much live off the land.
Once they hit that prime market weight they grow slower. Many look at the big huge Boers and think better meat goat. Big bones don't equal meat. What needs to be looked at is weight gain til weaning age, feed consumption, parasite resistance, ability to forage and live  off the land.


----------



## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

I prefer Kikos.  But I can't find them here!


----------



## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

How well do they milk?


----------



## babsbag (Nov 17, 2016)

Kinders are another dual purpose breed. I have no experience with them so nothing more to say.


----------



## NH homesteader (Nov 17, 2016)

@frustratedearthmother does, and hers are sooooo beautiful lol!


----------



## frustratedearthmother (Nov 17, 2016)

I love, love, love my Kinders!  Great milkers too.

The goat in the foreground and the goat sniffing M-I-L's hand are both Kinders.  You can compare their size to the pygmy that's hiding behind the chickens, lol


----------



## nstone630 (Nov 21, 2016)

The vet comes out today to do the labs on both my Boers. Also we are getting an ultrasound done to see if Moonpie is preggers. I'll update later today. 
After we are cleared of all the nasty things that these labs will test for, I will think about investing in Kiko. I've read up on it, along with everything posted here and feel they would be a great asset to have.


----------



## nstone630 (Nov 28, 2016)

OK. sorry I didn't post sooner, internet issues at the house. I'm going to be a GOAT GRANDMA!!! The ultra sound confirmed at least 1 kid. And I thought she was just getting fluffy  
Now, the vet said she might have 2 weeks left to go, and that was last Monday. I'm expecting anytime in the next week or so. Since I don't have an actual date of conception. 

I'm hoping she goes into labor when I'm home. I work full time, so does my husband. I'm soooo worried something may go wrong and I won't be there. My nerves are tore up! 

Any tips I should know? This will be the first baby!


----------



## Latestarter (Nov 28, 2016)

First tip: Expect that she will do whatever makes you the absolute craziest and is the absolute worst timing for your schedule.   Next, Congrats on the soon to come new arrival(s)!   Next tip, we have quite a few crazy goat people on here so be prepared to post lots of pics after they are born!   Good luck on a safe kidding


----------



## Southern by choice (Nov 28, 2016)

Since you won't be around (possibly) check her daily-

look for udder enlargement
look for the rump to steep downward
look for drop- you will notice the weight downward and it generally hollows out at the top (toward the rear on both sides of the spine)

STALL her.
Provide plenty of straw especially if cold out
make sure she can't deliver in a water bucket or a kid can't fall into one (hang bucket so she can drink but still be safe)


----------

