# Jumping the Moon Dairy - the next chapter



## babsbag

About 7 years ago I bought 3 goats, one of them is named Moonpie and this is all her fault. I knew nothing about goats, I was actually a little intimidated by them, and the rest they say is history. I now own over 40 goats counting kids.  

I decided that I needed my ladies to support themselves and I needed a reason to own more goats so a dairy is the making.   I live in probably the most regulated state in the USA and we are in the middle of a severe drought and I am building a Grade A dairy. Am I nuts ??? Let me hear a resounding "YES". I will be bottling fluid milk and making fresh cheese. I will add yogurt, keifer, ice cream, and feta as the time and the market allows. Hope to be getting the first inspection this summer.  I will milking 20-30 goats max with the ultimate goal of 20 gallons of milk a day. I have primarily Alpine goats and a few LMs and one Togg. I have more does than I need that is for sure. Ever since I have started this planning the Lord has blessed me with doelings.

I have purchased a 30' trailer and all the equipment that was a Grade A facility for pasteurizing and bottling milk. We are converting the office in the trailer to a place to make cheese and enclosing the porch on the trailer and making it a wash room for equipment.

On another trailer we are building the milking parlor and the milk house. I will be milking 4-6 goats at time and then transporting milk to the bulk tank in the milk house where it will begin chilling. At the end of milking the milk will either continue to be chilled to the required 40° and then held in the tank until being pumped to the pasteurizer or it will so straight to the pasteurizer and then chilled and bottled. I am also using the pasteurizer as the cheese vat for the chevre so I will have some coordination of milking and equipment to figure out.

I am building on trailers so I can sell when I retire, I am already retired from a "real" job, and also no building permits required. Our county does not inspect dairies, the state does, so by building these portable it leaves the county out of the picture and it allows me an out when the time comes without having to sell our home.

I know there are a lot of nay sayers out there that say this can't be done and that I won't make any money with 20 gallons of milk a day. That's ok, they can continue to think that if they want; I just don't invite people into my garden that trample on my flowers, but I can't control what they think or say.  I don't need to get rich and I don't need the goats to support a family; they only need to pay for their feed and upkeep and to let me enjoy a new chapter in my life. As far as saying it can't be done...a little late for that...I am well past the planning stages and I have no doubt that this will be done.

I will be posting pictures as we build. Here's to a new adventure in my life.


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## frustratedearthmother

This will be an incredible journey for you!  I'm so glad you are willing to share it with us.  I'm sure there will be plenty of people, including me, following your every move.

Much good luck to you and can't wait to read the next chapter in your book!


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## OneFineAcre

I think you'll do great
You obviously have the passion


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## norseofcourse

I think it's a huge undertaking, a ton of work, and very exciting!!  I have been reading about your dairy plans, and will continue to follow along.  I'm never going to be that serious about milking, but I think it's all very interesting.


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## babsbag

@norseofcourse  never say never  

A few years ago I sold a doe to someone and we started talking milk. He said he had a licensed milking barn and was taking his milk to a commercial kitchen, making cheese, and selling it at Farmer's markets. He said that getting licensed was no big deal. Well I found out that you CANNOT legally make cheese in a commercial kitchen, you have to have a dairy foods processing facility but that started the wheels turning. I was only going to make cheese originally and not be Grade A but when I stumbled upon this trailer and equipment that changed. There are not a lot of differences between the two licenses so why no go for the gold.

I belong to dairy goat association but only a handful of trusted friends know what I am doing. I just didn't want the constant "you will never succeed" to be a part of my life; there is enough negativity in the world already. I don't show my goats, I don't have pedigrees that are known, and I haven't paid over 300.00 for any of my goats. I  am really the oddity in my group so this will come as a big surprise when I finally tell everyone.  I have talked to the dairy inspectors, had them out to my house, have the county planning dept. giving me their blessings, and applied and received a microloan from the USDA. Everything pointed to yes, you really CAN do this, there have been no roadblocks at all. 

Is is scarey, a little. I am not mortgaging my home or my soul so succeed or fail I don't have a lot on the line so we decided to do this. My only wish is that  I was 15 years younger


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## Latestarter

Way to go Babs! With an attitude like that, failure is NOT an option! Go for the gold! 
 <---cheering section


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## Goat Whisperer

We all know you can do this!!!! I am so glad you started a thread on here! 

I gotta go but wanted to show you this. You may have heard about it but I thought it might encourage you  I think its awesome! 
http://www.cypressgrovechevre.com/grovers/our-story.html#.VTb4BiFViko


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## Southern by choice

I just want you to remember me Babs, yes, ME .... remember I was the_ first one_ who said you could do it when you mentioned it here a long time ago! I pm'd you! 

Don't forget the *little people*!  

I am your #1 Cheerleader 
(i'll be sitting in my chair waving my banner)

For those that haven't had the pleasure of knowing Babs... she is awesome and she can so do this. It really is a blessing to not just know her but to take part by prayer and encouragement! 

I am so excited for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Goat Whisperer

Southern by choice said:


> I just want you to remember me Babs, yes, ME .... remember I was the_ first one_ who said you could do it when you mentioned it here a long time ago! I pm'd you!
> 
> Don't forget the *little people*!
> 
> I am your #1 Cheerleader
> (i'll be sitting in my chair waving my banner)
> 
> For those that haven't had the pleasure of knowing Babs... she is awesome and she can so do this. It really is a blessing to not just know her but to take part by prayer and encouragement!
> 
> I am so excited for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



After all that I don't think she will ever forget you


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## BlessedWithGoats

You can do this @babsbag!! I'll be praying for you as you start out on this new adventure! I think it's a wonderful idea!! Congratulations and best wishes to you!!!!


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## bonbean01

Babs...you know many of us love you and KNOW if any one can do this....YOU can!!!!  Wishing you only great success and YES....you can do this and also really happy that you started this thread


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## BrownSheep

YAY!


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## Pearce Pastures

Babs, I just love this adventure and hearing about it along the way has made me more willing to take leaps of faith.  Maybe not in that I am going to go out and build my own dairy, but you have influenced me in many ways with your passion and determination.  Thank you.


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## ragdollcatlady

Congrats on being so close to your dream! 

I would love to be able to do something like this when I retire too....but that is another 20 years off or so I imagine. 

I enjoy milking my girls, now more than when they were just learning and we were having all out rodeos all the time. Except for StinkerBelle. I think she was just born to milk. 

Just curious, how many goats are you milking right now and how long does it take you? How long do you anticipate it taking to milk 20 -30 a day? 

I have about 30 goats here now including all the babies and boys, but I only milk 3 and they are all nigerian. I take about an hour in the mornings to feed,water and milk (and bottle feed 3 kids). But just the goats. Not including other animals.


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## babsbag

Right now I am milking about 9 and that will increase as I wean some kids and most of the 9 have kids on them too so I don't milk them everyday. I have a milk machine and It takes me about 1.5 hours to milk and clean the equipment and another 30 minutes to feed. When I get the dairy done I will be milking 4-6 at a time so I am hoping that I can get them all milked in about the same amount of time. Hoping that cleanup doesn't take much longer either. In many ways it will be easier as the goats will have one door to come in and one door to go our and I won't have to fight them at the gate; I am really excited about that. I am only planning on milking once a day.


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## babsbag

Thought I would share some pictures of my weekend project. I am converting the office in the trailer to a space to make cheese so I needed a sloped floor that I could apply epoxy paint to and it needed to be lightweight and something I could install. I didn't want to use a concrete like product for a few reasons...a 30 day curing time and I stink at concrete work. I can do just about everything else but no finish cement stuff. Ceramic tile, yes, patios and walkways...NO.

So I cut wedges of wood and sloped the floor to the center drain and then cut triangular pieces of plywood so they could slope too. I am now waiting for the epoxy paint to arrive.


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## babsbag

Here are some pictures of the bottling room with no equipment in it. I need to re-caulk all the seams in the paneling and I am recoating the floor.


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## Hens and Roos

Wishing you the best with your new adventure!


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## Southern by choice

YOU ROCK!


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## BlessedWithGoats

Great job!


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## Latestarter

It's amazing to see it all coming together, isn't it?! How awesome! Are you going to internet market your products as well, or just local consumption? I ask because I'd be interested in purchasing some when the time comes


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## babsbag

I would love to sell the cheese and chocolate truffles over the internet, just have to figure out shipping but I know it can be done.

A friend is coming on Thursday (if no jury duty) to start the site work for the new barn. We bought one of the fabric Quonset type barns and will be putting it on a 6' high pony wall so the goats can't reach the fabric. The barn is 30x40...massive...at least to me it is. I saw some of these when I visited NC last year and I really like them. It will be nice to be under one roof that doesn't leak. I will still have to build my bucks some shelter but I'll figure that out later. I will have three of them I think...at least two for sure.

One of the requirements for the dairy is a bathroom. OK, fine, but the dairy is below our septic tank so unless I pump the *** uphill I have a problem. But the problem has been solved. The inspector suggested that we just use an RV with a bathroom in it. Just so happens that my son has a trailer here that he is no longer living in, a nice trailer with all the creature comforts. We are going to buy it from him, take the bed out and put in a desk and make it an office, a bathroom, a place to stay during kidding season, and a refrigerator for storing meds. Perfect win win situation and he will let his mom make him payments. 

The epoxy coating for the floor came today so that is next but first I have to figure out how to use a router to set the floor drain...


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## SheepGirl

How exciting!!


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## BlessedWithGoats

Sounds like an exciting time for you and your family!!


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## babsbag

@BlessedWithGoats  Not sure that my husband would call this part of this project exciting. He is being a good sport and helping me build my dream but I don't think that this is how he ever envisioned retirement. He isn't retired yet but not far away.

He keeps asking me about my exit plan... 

I tell him let's get it up and running before I try and figure out how to hand it off to someone else. He wants to travel and see the sites, I want to raise goats and stay home.


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## bonbean01

Too bad your DH doesn't have the same future in mind that you do...I'd take your plan   As far as shipping prices, that flat rate shipping might make it easier to figure out?


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## BlessedWithGoats

babsbag said:


> @BlessedWithGoats  Not sure that my husband would call this part of this project exciting. He is being a good sport and helping me build my dream but I don't think that this is how he ever envisioned retirement. He isn't retired yet but not far away.
> 
> He keeps asking me about my exit plan...
> 
> I tell him let's get it up and running before I try and figure out how to hand it off to someone else. He wants to travel and see the sites, I want to raise goats and stay home.


Aww!  It would be hard for me to choose between the two... I'd want both!


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## babsbag

@bonbean01 ...it is not the cost of the shipping, it is keeping it cold while it is in transit.


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## Moody

Wow! You are my hero and such an inspiration. Anyone who has the guts to start their own business and comply with all the regulations of a grade A dairy deserves to be applauded. 

I just want milk for our family and am just getting started but a business like yours sounds like a wonderful idea. Not out to be rich but break even and a little bit of $ for your time. 

Can I be superbly nosy and ask how much all the equipment and setup is costing? I know milking equipment can be costly. Electric milker, pasteurizer, special rooms, meeting the special requirements... (trailers sound perfect for such a setup). I'm just curious (read, nosy).


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## babsbag

I paid 20,000 for the trailer and the equipment to pasteurize and bottle milk. I will probably spend another 10,000 converting the office in the trailer to a processing room for cheese and buying the equipment for that and also buying the equipment to milk 6 goats at a time. I figure about 10,000 to build the trailer for the milk parlor and the milk house and the bulk tank and chart recorder. And another 5,000 for incidentals like water tank for waste water storage and cement for the path from the barn to the milk parlor.

I was able to get a loan from the USDA for a large chunk of this and my mother gifted me with some and the rest is pay as we go and tax refund.

Will I ever get rich doing this? Hardly. But on paper it should turn a pretty good profit and just getting the goats to pay for their own upkeep is money in my pocket. I am not expecting the dairy to support us, I am already retired and DH has a job for a few more years so they only have to pay for themselves; anything else is just a bonus.

It is a lot of work though and I wake up in the middle of the night and wonder what in the world I am doing at my age building a dairy. I must be nuts.


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## BlessedWithGoats

babsbag said:


> It is a lot of work though and I wake up in the middle of the night and wonder what in the world I am doing at my age building a dairy. I must be nuts.


You're not crazy Babs... you're working hard to do something you love!


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## Moody

Following your dream is not a mistake. 

That doesn't sound too bad to start up a grade A dairy. Although a small operation you could easily expand if desired. 

Good luck and enjoy your retirement!


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## babsbag

A few weeks ago I got the pad for the new barn done; we have almost no level ground at our place so we had to bring in some blocks for retaining walls. It doesn't look level, but part of that is just an illusion, it is really pretty level. Also had to pull out a bunch of trees.

This weekend we put in some posts for the pony wall of the new barn. We bought a quonset hut type fabric Clearspan structure from Farmtek and we are putting it up on a 6 foot wall to give the goats some exits on the sides and also to keep the fabric out of reach of the goats. Next weekend we will finish the walls and then put the rafters together and then on 6/6 and 6/7 I have some friends coming to help with a barn raising. 

We weren't going to do this until Sept. but the friend that did the grading needs to come back and do the area where the processing trailer and milking parlor trailer will be going and he needs to repair our leach field. He also wants to sell his backhoe so I need to get him back here ASAP so he can sell that. And the area where the trailers will be going is where my current shelters are for the goats so I need to move the goats and dismantle all of those structures.

 Sometimes I feel like the farmer with the rowboat, the fox, the chicken, and the corn. If you aren't familiar with that puzzle...Google it.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch

Awesome babs!!! so happy for you!!! this is exactly what I want to do too!!! please post pictures if you get a chance, way to go! I'm going to bring my 5th wheel and my 40 goats and dairy it up with you, lol!!!


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## frustratedearthmother

That's great progress!


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## babsbag

So last weekend when our part of the country broke the record for heat we decided to start on the barn. We bought a fabric structure from FarmTek and this is the beginning of the installation. It is 30x40 and installed on a pony wall that is about 2.5' on the lowest end and 7' on the highest. There will be a bottom kick board and the final layer or dirt/gravel installed later. Also some siding and barn doors, just not sure where; the goats will let me know what works the best. 

I have the best friends in the world. Saturday we quit at 1:30 and had lunch and announced that it was too hot to go back outside...100° So one friend said "well, let's all come back on Sunday at 7:00 AM" and so they did. God bless my friends, it was hotter on Sunday...

This is the foreman on the Kubota. She checked on us off and on all day.




This is the first rafter going up. It is balanced on the material lift and has a rope tied around it to keep it somewhat plumb and for safety. We used a rope on each one as we installed them. The lift is like a hand crank forklift that can lift something 24' high. It was a God send once DH figured out how we could use it safely with non-locking wheels. He strapped it into the bucket on our tractor; that worked better than it ever would have worked sitting on the ground. Sometimes the best inventions are out of necessity.

 This is the south end of the barn and the side to the left is the west.





Here you can see the lift getting ready to pick up a rafter. We would lift them up and hold them horizontally and maneuver them onto the arms of the lift and then tie a rope around it and have someone on the rope to keep it taught. A person would be at each foot of the rafter to help guide it onto the pony wall. As the lift raised the center of the rafter it would of course become vertical and the feet could them be guided fairly easily. The rope really helps control the swing otherwise this could have been a risky task.





Rafter number 2 is up. You can see the lift extended with the rafter sitting on it. I would go and mark the location for each rafter foot and then we would pre-drill the holes and use lag bolts to attach it to the board. Only once did someone miss the mark but we caught it quickly. We had 3 drills, could have used 3 more.





My friend doing the ladder work. He wouldn't let DH do it because of his bad foot. There are 9 purlins, he did 2 of them; the rest still need to be done.  Each purlin is attached to each rafter with a clamp and then the clamp is screwed to the rafter and to the purlin. There are 11 rafters...I haven't done the math but that was a lot of screws, especially when working from a ladder. He spent most of the day up there and NO shade.












The three hot chicks...also known as the the brains. They were 2 others on Saturday but they couldn't come back on Sunday. There is a town a few miles from here called Happy Valley so we were the Hot Chicks from Happy Valley.




The brawn...couldn't have happened without them. There was one more of that team on Saturday too.




I also had a friend that did some shopping and laid out all the food stuff on Saturday for us.

Sunday night we took most of the crew to dinner and just said a huge thank you. I had made the neck bands with the water holding crystals in them and gave one to everyone that helped; they were worn with gratitude. My friend brought a spray bottle of water too that we kept in the ice chest. We worked from 7-2:30 on Sunday with no breaks and our lunch was peanuts and almonds. No one wanted to stop until we were done. I guess our area set some heat records this weekend too...boy do I know how to pick them or what? So thankful for good friends and that we all survived.

Monday we DID NOT work on the barn, I was ok with that.

Tomorrow DH and I will work on some more of the purlins. The plan is to start at 7:00, work for about 3 hours, take a long break, and go at it again in the evening. I think the high tomorrow is supposed to be about 106 and then 103 on Sunday.


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## bonbean01

Babs, when you need to ship and keep it all cold....ValleyVet ships with blocks of dry ice and that does the trick    Your dream is taking shape quickly now!!!!  EXCITED for you!!!


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## Hens and Roos

Looking great


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## OneFineAcre

Looking good


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## Mike CHS

I'm envious at how fast you are progressing but also know how proud you guys have to be at the same time.


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## babsbag

@Mike CHS ...from my side it is taking FOREVER.  I am so tired of building already, I would love to be in production and maintenance mode.


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## babsbag

Haven't posted on this thread but that doesn't mean I haven't been working. It has been INCREDIBLY hot here, day and night, so really hard to work. We had to install an AC in the processing room so I could do the epoxy floor; needed it to be about 70-75 and it just wouldn't get below 98. So last weekend we did that and then yesterday and today I did the floor. I was very nervous as 2 part epoxies are not something I have experience with.

I got up a 5:30 yesterday morning and did chores and then did the first coat on the floor. I ended up doing 2 coats as it is going over wood and the wood is pretty absorbent. This morning I did coat #2 and this one got the pretty flecks added too it as well as a non-skid additive.



 

The flecks are not as even as I would have liked as I was trying to toss them across a 10' room and it wasn't working so a lot of them fell in the middle of the room. They sell shoes with spikes on them so you can walk through this stuff which would have been helpful...I ordered a pair for use in the next room and the milking barn.  Also you can still see the seams in the plywood even though caulked, the next time I will try to find something else to use as a filler.  The cove base came out well so that was good.  Lessons learned.  Next is the plastic wall board.

I have been re-caulking all the seams in the part of the processing room that is already done as the original builder used acrylic caulk and it just doesn't clean up like silicon so I removed it all and I am now redoing it; MY WAY 
I have the exterior of the trailer primed; used some really thick primer called peel bond to help bridge the rough siding, it was like spraying marshmallow cream.  Hoping to put the topcoat on tomorrow if I get it caulked tonight

The goal is to have this trailer with equipment back into it in a few weeks and them start learning how to use all the equipment while we work on the milking parlor trailer.

The actual barn got put on hold until the weather cools down. I need to rent a "man lift" to do the high purlins and the cables and I will need to use it for an entire day. They are expensive to rent so I need to rent it when I CAN use it for an entire day and right now it is just too hot. Last week was 111-115 for the entire week.  We rented one a few weeks ago and the thing broke down on us and we returned it and then the weather changed so now we wait. But it isn't like we don't have anything to do.


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## Hens and Roos

That looks nice!


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## norseofcourse

That floor looks nice!  Who cares if the speckles aren't even, it's artistic and it's *yours*  

I can't imagine all the work that goes into all this, and doing it in that kind of heat...  you're doing an awesome job!


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## OneFineAcre

Good job


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## Goat Whisperer

Awesome!


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## Latestarter

That looks GREAT! You're investing a lot of sweat and time (& $$) right now and hopefully it will pay off handsomely when you're all done.


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## goats&moregoats

You go Women!   I to have reached the point in my life where it isn't do or die. Just enjoying the choices I have made and all my little goaties, my two GP guardians and those darn ole sheep.  Enjoy your journey, I'll be traveling with you through your post.


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## babsbag

I have put up a white board in my kitchen with my list and my DH's list. Mine is 3x longer than his and also has many jobs crossed off, his stays about the same. The chore board was his idea too; guess it doesn't bother him to see an uncompleted project.

It has been a while since I posted. I have recoated the floor in the original processing room, got the fiberglass reinforced panels installed, got the door installed, painted the ceiling, got new lights, and painted the outside. I am working on getting trim painted. I have caulked every joint, seam, hole, etc. I HATE CAULK.

Found a restaurant going out of business and bought a stainless steel table for a food prep sink and a very small stove top. DH cut the holes to mount them in the table so it looks like a stainless steel counter top. Also got a commercial mixer to use whenadding ingredients to the chevre. I got a steal on the mixer but the best part was finding a stainless steel donut glazing table that has a tray built into it that slopes to a drain. I am going to use it a cheese draining table and I am looking for a stainless steel welder to make me a rack that I can put over the top to hang cheese from. I saved about (drum roll) $1200.00 by finding this table over buying a new one. 

I have started moving equipment back into the processing trailer and I am cleaning it as I go of course. My dirt isn't really dirt, but other's dirt is just nasty. The previous dairy used to milk chocolate milk and they either had a catastrophic event with cocoa powder at some time or it was a super messy process but I have been cleaning cocoa powder off of everything. I have a pressure washer and Easy Off so cleaning isn't too bad. Love love love my pressure washer. The equipment I bought used from the restaurants is taking the most work as I want ALL of the grease off, dairies don't do grease. The processing equipment has the cocoa and some hardwater/milkstone deposits to remove, but not grease.

DH got 220 electric wired into the trailer and that means that tomorrow I will start learning to use the pasteurizer and chiller. The chiller circulates cold water around the milk after it is pasteurized. Then I will learn to use the bottler. I had to order a part, it should be here this week and then I need bottles. I am having a heck of a time finding them with the snap on caps. I found one place and they don't want to ship, which means I need to drive 5 hours round trip to go and get them. UGH. Thankfully DH has a friend that lives there and he sees him almost every week so hopefully he will pick them up for me.

It seems that every time I blink I find a new job to do, my list never ends. DH is only home on weekends and next weekend we are going to see my mom and to buy 2 more goats so won't get much dairy work done. The next chore in that trailer is water, sink, and drains; then exhaust fan, and last but not least, finish the store room. Then we get to start on the milking parlor and milk room. Hopefully it won't be as hard; we should be old pros by then.

And in between all of this I milk and care for the goats, play at growing a garden (play this year, normally I really do grow one), and do all the other things that go with keeping a house and farm running. Last week I canned about 60 lbs of peaches (from my trees) and next week it will be time for tomatoes.

Thank goodness I don't live in Alaska during the summer, I would never sleep, as long as it was daylight I would find something to do.


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## Hens and Roos

wow, you have been extremely busy!!  Good find on the used equipment!


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## Latestarter

Huge Kudos on the equipment savings!  Glad things are moving along for you. I can only imagine your "to do" lists...  

Wouldn't want that hanging over me personally, but then this is working towards achievement of a dream for you, so a little different situation. I love Alaska, but would only be comfortable there 1/2 the year... the 1/2 when it's mostly dark. I like to (attempt to) sleep!  I don't sleep well anymore due to a combination of factors... Anyway, sounds like progress is being made!


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## babsbag

Been working hard on all the little details; it seems that every time I turn around there is another little project. This week I re-screened some windows to make them pollen/dust proof, installed the auto door closure, reassembled the bottler, washed a metal door, and painted the ceiling in the store room. We bought the sheetrock today and might get that up on Monday...I hope.

I also canned 50lbs of tomatoes, 1/2 for me and 1/2 for a friend. I do lots of non dairy chores too.

Last weekend we put all the cables on the barn and next weekend we are having another barn raising party and will be putting the cover on it. We have to get that done soon in case El Nino does decide to bring rain to No. CA. We rented a really cool piece of equipment for that project and it made it pretty easy. I did have to assemble 24 steel cables with turnbuckles and cable clamps and my hands were complaining...that part was not much fun. Here's a picture of DH putting one of the cables on.





I am drying off the girls and getting them ready for breeding and hoping that I am up and running by then. So much to do and I so want this construction done.


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## Hens and Roos

very nice, sounds like you are keeping busy for sure


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## frustratedearthmother

Now, THAT'S  cool piece of equipment.  I coulda used it when painting my two-story house!

Congrats on the good progress!


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## OneFineAcre

Looking good


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## BlessedWithGoats

Very nice!


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## Mini Horses

OK - so I am certain you have been MORE than busy but, we need an update.    It's been a month, couldyaplease?

I feel like the reel broke on the movie, right at the cliffhanger..."to be continued"


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## Latestarter

Hey there @Mini Horses  Greetings from the front range in Colorado!


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## babsbag

Update... 



 



 

We got the cover on the barn. The processing trailer is almost done. DH has the week off and is working on the milking barn trailer.


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## Mini Horses

Thank you

Lookin good ----  huge project


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## goatgurl

just found this thread and dang girl you are getting there.  congratulations on all the progress.  can't wait to see it all complete and up and running.  with all your hard work and tenacity you got this conquered.


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## babsbag

The processing trailer is almost done, need to have DH wire in the fan and I need to finish some plumbing but I am going to ask the state dairy inspector to come and look at it right before Thanksgiving. She can't sign it off or make it official until it is moved to its final spot and has hot water and the drains are all connected but she can tell me if  I have missed anything obvious. There is still some siding on the storage room to finish and the floor in there, but that is of no concern to the inspector.

So with that basically out of the way we are working on the trailer that will house the milking parlor and the milk room. The floor will be done tomorrow and the walls will be started. The goal is to get it watertight in the next few weeks and then get it moved out of the barn so I can finish the barn, move the goats, and then tear down the old housing and move the trailers. I feel like it is a well orchestrated dance, at least I hope it is "well", not always sure about that.

All of the goats but 5 have been bred. Three of those are yearlings and while they are on my list to breed I may not, they are pretty small. Last years kids did not grow well, pretty sure it is the result of a selenium deficiency. I have 6 kids from last year that I know for certain that I am not breeding this year but if I breed all th rest I have 28 does freshening in Feb-March. OMG, what have I done?  

On Nov. 7 the dairy club I belong to is having a Goat Education Day and I am going to have a booth selling my soaps and lotions AND a banner announcing the dairy. I haven't told many people, too many nay sayers so this will be a surprise to most...it should be an interesting day. I have always just had the mindset to not invite people into my garden if they are going to stomp on my flowers so the dairy has been kept near and dear to my heart for the last year or so. I am really excited to let the "goat out of the barn", there will be some really shocked people. Since I don't participate in shows some people think that I am a second class goat owner but now I get to have my girls do what they were bred to do and they never had to step foot in the show ring to do it. Please don't think that I don't appreciate a good goat and admire those that show; it is a huge commitment and there are some beautiful animals, but in my circle of "friends" there are some that have the attitude that only show goats are worth having, the rest are useless.  Is it ok if I feel a little vindicated?   I have other real friends that know about the dairy and support me, I don't want you thinking that everyone in the group are "show snobs", if they were I wouldn't belong; all in all it is a good group.


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## Baymule

I just read your thread. Your husband is very supportive and a great guy to back you on this. It is your dream, not his, but he is with you all the way. Give him a great big hug. You said he wants to travel when he retires, I have a suggestion. Will you have an "off" season where you aren't milking? If so, plan to travel during that time so you both can have your dream.

I  love all the building, the trailers are brilliant. All your hard work is coming together and looking fantastic. Get a big wide ribbon, assemble your friends that have helped get you here, BBQ, and a GRAND OPENING ribbon cutting ceremony. Take lots of pictures and post them!


----------



## Mini Horses

Love the update!   You are moving right along.

IMO there is no need to "explain" your goats to anyone....not every animal is a show winner but, that does NOT mean they don't have a job that they do exceptionally well.    It is true within all breeds and disciplines -- horses, dogs, even chickens.
You breed for what you need & some genetics don't always present their best face.   In your case the udder & production are important, not the slant of the ear or shape of the nose

Raised mini horses for years, mini donks & Boer goats.  Talk about some "show ring" issues ?       Managed to do very, very well and haven't regretted any that were not in the ring.    Yes, I have had many show winners, also -- loved no more than others.

You go girl!


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## Southern by choice




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## frustratedearthmother

I second that!

Lots of support coming from here - for sure!


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## OneFineAcre

Can't wait until it is finished


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## Riverside Fainters

Awesome job. Don't let anyone crush your dreams. The negative people are not ones you need in your life... lol. I love the step by step pictures and process, your doing a great job, hopefully you can be up and running soon!


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## babsbag

The Goat Ed Day and the dairy unveiling went well; a lot of questions, which is good. Many many people think that this takes $$$$$$$$ and I only  have $$ so I am living proof that this can be done. 

The inspector is coming out of Thursday to look at the processing trailer so hope she likes what she sees. I have time to make changes if I need to but praying that all is well as it. This isn't an official "yeah" or "nay", just a friendly inspection.

DH is off this week so hopefully the milking barn trailer will get walls up and maybe even a roof. March will be here soon.


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## babsbag

The inspector came out today and she had nothing bad to say about the processing room.   It isn't in its final resting spot yet so plumbing is not connected but all of the inside is done; floors,wall covering, drains, sinks, fans, faucets, window screens (pollen and dust proof),and equipment is in place and she liked it.  The attached storage room still needs to be done but that is a walk in the park compared to the other stuff. I can put this trailer to rest and focus on the milk barn and milk room. One down and one to go.

Saturday I am going to OR to see a dairy that milks the same way I attend to do, with buckets and not a pipeline. They have the buckets in the milk house and have pass through trap doors in the wall between the milk house and the barn so the inflations can be in the barn and the cans stay in the milk house. This will save me some money in buying equipment, ease in building the trailer, and less cleanup. I was going to have to milk into cans in the barn, carry them to a little transfer room and dump the milk into buckets that have never been in the barn and then pour those into the bulk tank. Twice the cans and twice the work. I like this idea better and the inspector is ok with it too.


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## frustratedearthmother

Awesome!


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## goatgurl




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## Pearce Pastures




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## babsbag

Last weekend I visited Pholia Farm in OR after watching some videos that they had made showing their milking setup. I contacted the owner and she was nice enough to let me come for a visit and observe her milking routine.  She milks four goats at a time and uses the exact same equipment that I intend to use. She suggested that 6 at a time might be too many for one person so I am going to start with 4 but have room and the vacuum pump big enough for 6...just in case.

What really drew me to her design was that she leaves her milk can in the milk house when she milks and she has a little pass through hole in the wall into the milk barn that she sticks the inflations through. I had thought about doing this but told myslef I was crazy, but when I saw it in her video I knew that I had to see this in person. Fortunatley the farm is only about three hours away and I have met the owner before.

By not taking the milk cans into the milking barn I save myself room in the barn/milk house trailer and the purchase and the daily cleanup of an extra set of cans. I was going to have to build a "transfer area" for the milk so that the cans in the milking barn never go into the milk room and I wasn't allowed to use the cans that had been in the milking barn to pour the milk into the bulk tank so I was going to have another set of cans in the milk room that I would transfer the milk into in the "transfer area". Copying her design will save me all that trouble and some expense.   (The inspector had already approved that idea but I wasn't sure it would work.)

It is so great that people are willing to share their ideas. I got a lot of tips and tricks, the trip was totally worth the time.  The owner of the dairy, Gianaclis Caldwell, has a book coming out in the Spring... "Mastering Basic Cheesemaking" and I was able to get a copy early...another plus of that visit.   She has other books on cheesemaking and dairying that have been a valuable resource to me so I was excited to see another one.


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## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> Last weekend I visited Pholia Farm in OR after watching some videos that they had made showing their milking setup. I contacted the owner and she was nice enough to let me come for a visit and observe her milking routine.  She milks four goats at a time and uses the exact same equipment that I intend to use. She suggested that 6 at a time might be too many for one person so I am going to start with 4 but have room and the vacuum pump big enough for 6...just in case.
> 
> What really drew me to her design was that she leaves her milk can in the milk house when she milks and she has a little pass through hole in the wall into the milk barn that she sticks the inflations through. I had thought about doing this but told myslef I was crazy, but when I saw it in her video I knew that I had to see this in person. Fortunatley the farm is only about three hours away and I have met the owner before.
> 
> By not taking the milk cans into the milking barn I save myslef room in the barn/milk house trailer and the purchase and the daily cleanup of an extra set of cans. I was going to have to build a "transfer area" for the milk so that the cans in the milking barn never go into the milk room and I wasn't allowed to use the cans that had been in the milking barn to pour the milk into the bulk tank so I was going to have another set of cans in the milk room that I would transfer the milk into in the "transfer area". Copying her design will save me all that trouble and some expense.   (The inspector had already approved that idea but I wasn't sure it would work.)
> 
> It is so great that people are willing to share their ideas. I got a lot of tips and tricks, the trip was totally worth the time.  The owner of the dairy, Gianaclis Caldwell, has a book coming out in the Spring... "Mastering Basic Cheesemaking" and I was able to get a copy early...another plus of that visit.   She has other books on cheesemaking and dairying that have been a valuable resource to me so I was excited to see another one.



We bought semen from a buck that they bred 
Pholia Farm Buck Finn

Sounds like things are coming together


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## Baymule

I bet that was a lot of fun to go see her dairy. Plus seeing her dairy in person helped solve a problem for you.


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## HomesteaderWife

Please keep us updated! I just got into reading this thread and I am very much interested to see your continued progress, and the final result!


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## babsbag

I will post as the exciting stuff happens. Last year CA had a "nice" drought going on and I wasn't building a dairy. This year it is cold and wet and miserable (yes, I am complaining already) and we are trying to work on the trailer. DH is off next week and he hopes to get it water tight. That would really be amazing wonderful and a blessing. The trailer is in my goats' new barn and they want their new home...NOW. 

I don't typically do a kidding thread on BYH, everyone would get bored. I have 8 does due the first 10 days of Feb and then a break (I will need it). 16 does due in March and then a few in April. And one thrown in some where along the line...she was with the buck for a month or more. Will be a busy time for sure. They should be in their new barn by then, and hopefully I will have the cameras up and ready so I can watch from the comfort of my warm house and bed. My girls like nights *SIGH*


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## babsbag

I have been blessed 

The milking setup I was going to use is less than ideal as my back complains about lifting cans of milk and leaning over sink washing buckets, but it is what it is....until a few weeks ago. 

I was perusing a website I visit often getting ready to buy the milk bulk tank when I see a consignment section and low and behold there is a small goat pipeline system for sale for the same price as what all the buckets were going to cost. Now granted it is in NC and I am in CA but I have this friend in NC that lives 1.5 hours or so from this dairy and she went to visit it.  Thanks @Southern by choice.  She and her family took pictures and checked it all out and I am going to buy it. DH will fly to NC, document, train, dismantle, rent a truck and drive back home. He thrives on this kind of thing. I may or may not go with him for a few days, verdict is out on that one. I feel like I need to, but with dogs that need to be boarded and goats that are close to kidding, and the airport being 2 hours away, it makes it all a little challenging.


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## OneFineAcre

That's great


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## frustratedearthmother

So awesome - you have been blessed.  Doubly so - with the deal on the pipeline system and with such a great friend!


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## goatgurl

whoo hooo!  won't a pipeline be such a blessing!  i know that my back and hands would gripe at me daily if i had to carry heavy buckets.  and you had better take that break while you can because once the dairy is up and going you may never get any more time off.  Bless Southern't heart, it's so good to have friends willing to help.


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## Southern by choice

It will be so fun to see you again!  
So excited for you and your dairy!


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## Hens and Roos

that's great!!


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## babsbag

I am blessed for sure and over and over again I have seen proof while working on the dairy. I am not sure why this all falls together but I am thankful. There have been no roadblocks for this from the County or the State and in CA that alone is a miracle.  And my friends are THE BEST.

Going to put out a request here.  I am looking for 1-4 milk meters for goats. I can't find any used ones so I thought I might post it on here. Cow ones won't work. They "usually" look like this...



  and are made by Waikato but Westfalia makes one too, I think. If anyone hears of any of these for sale used please send me a PM. I really need to know how much milk each doe is giving me so I can make breeding plans down the line. I have more does than I need so it is time to start keeping the best of the best.

THANKS!!!


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## babsbag

We have been working on the trailer for the milking parlor and the barn at the same time. I need that trailer OUT OF MY BARN NOW

We moved it into the barn so we could work on it in the rain but now it is close to kidding season and it's still there. Rafters are going in on it tomorrow and then hopefully a roof or if not then at least we get it completely squared up so I can start the siding this week. We can't move it out until it is weather proof; if I move it out and tarp it then I can't work on it when it is raining...a catch 22. And to complicate matters there is a nice slippery slope of mud that it has to get through. I know our truck can't pull it out of that hole, but hoping my friends new $75,000.00 beast can. Was hoping to move it this week but 1. we aren't done and 2. accuweather lied (surprised ?) and instead of one day of rain this week we are getting 4. I am really worried that the trailer may be stuck in there until spring....BAD BAD BAD. Hopefully a bunch of well placed gravel would help if needed.

Here is the siding on the barn. I had a bunch of 2x6 redwood decking that was really a pain to use for decking, the pieces weren't long enough and a lot of cracks and knots and warped boards so I found a good use for them. I leveled the horizontal boards between each upright and filled in any gaps at the bottom with a board. There will be 6-12" of gravel going in so the scrap filler board on the bottom will never be seen. I still have to drive some t-post or re-bar on the outside to make sure the bottom boards don't bow out when I put the gravel in. We have a bunch of 5' t-post that will be perfect for that job.



 


I got the rain gutter on one side so far. I only bought materials for one side as it was a design as I go project but it came out nice so now I can do the other side. IF it ever stops raining. It was amazing how much water was coming down the sides, eventually I will get gravel along side of the barn too and slope it away from the barn. So much to do.


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## frustratedearthmother

Hope the weather holds out for you...but if it's like it is here...we're looking for plans for an ark!


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## Latestarter

Kinda of strange really to hear someone from CA complaining about too much water... Although I DO understand getting it all at once is detrimental to so many other things. I hope at the very least that it's helping with your snow pack and helping fill the vastly depleted reservoirs. I was surprised to see how "loose" the fabric cover appears on the barn roof... Is it my imagination? Also, did you dip the holding screws in any kind of sealer before you screwed the gutter on? To prevent water access to the underlying wood?

Sorry the rain is holding you up on work on your dairy...


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## babsbag

The screws have a rubber grommet, the kind you use on metal roofing.  And the piece of trim that I used is PVC no rotting there; at least not from water.

The fabric that looks loose is a "skirt" that hangs down below the tie downs. If you look at my first picture in the above post you will see a horizontal bar in a pocket with yellow straps that go to ratchets. Everything above that is tight. We still haven't tightened all of the cables and turnbuckles completely either, will do that as soon as the trailer is moved, but believe me, the top of the barn is tight. There are some wrinkles but I am sure they will iron out in the heat next summer.

Our snow pack is doing quite well, more this week. I got to see Yosemite in the snow; something I hadn't seen since I was a kid. Gorgeous place. 





 

But I just need it to rain everywhere but on me for about a week and then it can let go.


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## goatgurl

looks like you are making progress even in the rain.  like FEM i was looking for a big boat but it has finally stopped for a while.  suppose to start again in a couple of days but the 9-10" we got before just 1-2 this time.


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## babsbag

It is raining, raining, raining. We did not get the trailer water tight so it is still in my barn.   I will try and get some siding on it this week. I decided I needed to test out how hard the concrete is at TSC a few days ago so have been not much help with a really messed up elbow, wrist, and shoulder.  Very poor timing on my part. Oh, the concrete at TSC is VERY hard, no need for anyone else to try it out.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh man - that stinks!  Hope you feel better soon!


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## Hens and Roos

Ouch!


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## Latestarter

Silly girl...concrete IS hard... I would think at your age you'd think better of testing it  Sorry you had to test it to verify it. Hope no permanent damage to joints etc. Bumps and bruises (or cuts) don't heal as fast as they used to either  

I know you folks out on the wrong coast  really need the rain, but I hope it will give you a couple weeks break so you can get some of this pending stuff finished up and moved. Really sucks; unexpected hold-ups that we have no control over and set us back by seems like ages. You know we're all rooting for you on this! Can't wait to hear of the success you'll surely achieve.


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## babsbag

Wrong Coast !!! When did I move East?  

Thanks for the encouragement, some days I need it more than others. I am healing slowly but everyday a little better so that is good.


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## Mini Horses

That's why I stopped horseback riding -- fell from a fence and discovered how hard the ground had become!   Too many people & animals depended on me, so rarely ride now.  No full size horses for long time.   Not afraid to ride, do that on some friends horses now & then, just not an everyday thing now.  Sadly. 

It wasn't that I didn't ride well, or feel.  But, didn't want to take the chance so didn't buy another riding horse after years of not having my own.   Besides, little time for it now.


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## Ferguson K

Mini, I'm right there with you. Did endurance most of my life. Two times a broken back make me cautious of who I ride. I have my main riding horse, but she's batty. Fractured my sacrum in April over a plastic bag. I usually ride my "retired" horse Maya now. Haven't ridden in months, we've been busy.

Babs, I can't tell you enough times how hard that TSC pavement is. I walk on it alllllll day long. It's also unforgiving in the battlefield. Hope your battle wounds heal quickly, I love the progress updates!


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## Baymule

babsbag said:


> I have been blessed
> 
> The milking setup I was going to use is less than ideal as my back complains about lifting cans of milk and leaning over sink washing buckets, but it is what it is....until a few weeks ago.
> 
> I was perusing a website I visit often getting ready to buy the milk bulk tank when I see a consignment section and low and behold there is a small goat pipeline system for sale for the same price as what all the buckets were going to cost. Now granted it is in NC and I am in CA but I have this friend in NC that lives 1.5 hours or so from this dairy and she went to visit it.  Thanks @Southern by choice.  She and her family took pictures and checked it all out and I am going to buy it. DH will fly to NC, document, train, dismantle, rent a truck and drive back home. He thrives on this kind of thing. I may or may not go with him for a few days, verdict is out on that one. I feel like I need to, but with dogs that need to be boarded and goats that are close to kidding, and the airport being 2 hours away, it makes it all a little challenging.



Aren't BYH friends the absolute BEST???


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## babsbag

They are the best and the best best part is that I get to go to NC and visit with Southern and her family again. I have to go and see the equipment and get some education on how to use it and takes lots of pictures and videos, and visit my friend. It is the best deal ever. DH will go back in Feb and dismantle it all and bring it home. I know that this is the right choice but it does mean that I won't be milking for a while yet. I was going to pull kids and milk but now I may dam raise again. I can't face milking 25 goats one or two at a time...that's what (goat) kids are for right?


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## babsbag

Make that 30 goats...I just counted. The first 8 are due the first week of Feb. Most are due in March with a few in April and a few in May.


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## Ferguson K

My dream.


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## babsbag

My dream too, but hoping after all these goats freshen I still feel that way. The reality is that there will probably be about 60 kids   I have always had good luck with birthing, never lost a doe or a kid, had one abort late, one with kids with iodine deficiency, and a few that delivered multiples with a last kid being a teeny tiny thing, but no serious problems. Have only pulled two kids in 7 years. How long can this luck last?  And I do this alone, no help on the goat front from DH.


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## Mini Horses

You may have addressed this before -- I don't remember -- BUT......

Once the dairy is up & running,  will you be pastureizing & selling milk, wholesaling it to others who will, making cheese, etc???   Just wondering the disposal available to you.

I'm in VA and we cannot sell raw milk to public.  But, there has been no attempt to stop the "herd share" set-ups.   We can sell raw milk if "for pet use".  Most farms with herd share are not subject to inspection a it is "merely an ownership" situation.


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## babsbag

I will be pasteurizing milk and selling it direct, also making cheese, yogurt and kiefer. We can sell raw milk from a Grade A dairy but there are some extra steps to take and if anyone claims to get sick from your milk they will shut you down for weeks on end until it is tested and resolved. While I personally drink raw milk from my goats I won't be selling it that way; if something were to go horribly wrong you could literally kill someone and I am not willing to take that chance. You can't see e-Coli or Listeria.  I could culture each batch of milk before bottling and selling but just not something I want to do at this time.


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## Mini Horses

Wow, that's great!   Sounds like this will be happening soon for you.   I'm sure you will succeed because you want to & are positive about the business.

Yeah, I use my milk raw, also.  Do understand the possibility of milk contamination and the supplier liability.   Like you (I'm sure) and most others on forum, I feel pretty comfortable with my own individual handling and use. 

Thanks.  I enjoy your sharing of the building of the business and look forward to the "Grand Opening" !!   You go girl!


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## babsbag

I have been going back and forth with the dairy inspector and a code issue. I read things very literally and if it doesn't say I can't then I can. Codes don't tell you everything you can do, they tell you what you can't do and what you must do, the rest is a given. Unfortunately she doesn't see if that way. She thinks the "may" means "you will".  My DH reads codes for a living and for the last 14 years I was always reading very technical manuals where you have to read and comprehend and implement things to a "t" . I look for the "." and the "," as they do make a difference. Well, I have pushed this so far the she wants to bring her boss out to see the trailers and discuss this issue. Am I nervous...yes. Am I right...Yes. Will I take it the director of the CA Dept of Food and Ag....Yes.  They know not with whom they mess. 

My mom is from Missouri. The SHOW ME state.


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## Ferguson K

You'll be fine!


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## babsbag

Thanks for the vote of assurance. It has escalated even more. Man the last thing I wanted was to be on the wrong side of the law but looks like that is my spot for now. What I really need is access to someone that reads code other than my DH.  I have asked for an appeal which I am sure will just thrill the inspector to her very core.  I just don't have room in this very small milking trailer to do what she is requiring.


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## norseofcourse

If you think you're right, stick to your guns as far as you feel you can.  'may' means you can, 'shall' means you have to, any time I've read codes.  Could there be a chance those two words are defined in the code somewhere?


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## babsbag

I will have to look for definitions; good idea.  The code clearly says that a passageway is permissible, it does not say it is required.  There is a federal Pasteurized Milk Ordinance (PMO) which CA follows to some degree and it clearly says that I can have a connecting door. The inspector has made me adhere to the PMO for other things but on this she wants to just ignore that document. I have asked her which parts of the PMO I must follow and she can't answer, or won't; I suspect the later. I have gone to her boss on this so we will see, it is just frustrating and a waste of time.  I told her not to come out for the visit when she informed me that is was going to cost me $108.00 an hour. I told her I did not request a formal visit or site consultation so if she and her boss wanted to visit it was at their expense, not mine. That got her really mad.  Isn't that just sweet.


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## frustratedearthmother

GRRRRRRR.... I don't even have any words of wisdom .... but I will growl at them for you!  GRRRRRRR!


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## OneFineAcre

Sorry you are running into difficulties.
I hope it all works out.


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## Baymule

What a witch. I would guess what is making her so mad is that you know the code better than her and Ms. Goddess is angry about it.


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## Latestarter

It comes down to "power".... almost always... They want it, believe they have it, and want to exercise it, and HATE to be questioned.


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## Goat Whisperer

Baymule said:


> What a witch. I would guess what is making her so mad is that you know the code better than her and Ms. Goddess is angry about it.


....wonder what would happen if babs 'accidentally' splashed a bucket of water on her.....ya think Ms Goddess would melt?


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## Baymule




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## babsbag

I worked in the technology industry for 14 years and one thing I learned during that time is to keep my mouth shut if I don't know 200% that I am right. I have met a lot of women who work in a male dominated industry and feel that they have to impress everyone with their prowess that they often don't have. Have met some really knowledgeable women too so nothing against us women, it is only some of them. Well she fits this description perfectly. I  have asked some really basic questions, like how often do I have to have my herd tested for TB and she doesn't know the answer but she can spout off incorrect code interpretation with no problem. 

"Better to keep you mouth shut and let them think you are a fool than to open it and let them know it"   

Rant over. 

On a happier note, I almost have my milking barn trailer water tight and it should be leaving my goat housing barn next week. That fall I took at TSC a few weeks ago has really messed with my schedule for this and it is making it hard to work. I can't climb a ladder, hold a drill, pick up anything heavy or very small (like a screw) without an incredible amount of pain, and I am no wimp; this HURTS. But I almost have the project done. One window to install, one more full sheet of siding and two sheets of metal roofing. Would have done it today but the aspirin wore off and I was cold. 

A friend that I will forever be indebted to is coming out tomorrow to see what we have to do to pull that trailer out of the barn. It has to come up a muddy slippery little slope and I know our truck can't do it. Hoping that his Bobcat can.  I have kids hitting the ground in a little over two weeks and I need that barn empty and some gravel and sand brought in for the floor, a front gate, and some fencing moved. I will so excited to be in that barn. 

It is RAINING in CA. My guess would be 2" today, 3" the last storm a few days ago and 7"+ (rain gauge overflowed) the storm before that.  Rain is a necessary evil but I sure do miss my drought.


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## babsbag

I worked in the technology industry for 14 years and one thing I learned during that time is to keep my mouth shut if I don't know 200% that I am right. I have met a lot of women who work in a male dominated industry and feel that they have to impress everyone with their prowess that they often don't have. Have met some really knowledgeable women too so nothing against us women, it is only some of them. Well she fits this description perfectly. I  have asked some really basic questions, like how often do I have to have my herd tested for TB and she doesn't know the answer but she can spout off incorrect code interpretation with no problem. 

"Better to keep you mouth shut and let them think you are a fool than to open it and let them know it"   

Rant over. 

On a happier note, I almost have my milking barn trailer water tight and it should be leaving my goat housing barn next week. That fall I took at TSC a few weeks ago has really messed with my schedule for this and it is making it hard to work. I can't climb a ladder, hold a drill, pick up anything heavy or very small (like a screw) without an incredible amount of pain, and I am no wimp; this HURTS. But I almost have the project done. One window to install, one more full sheet of siding and two sheets of metal roofing. Would have done it today but the aspirin wore off and I was cold. 

A friend that I will forever be indebted to is coming out tomorrow to see what we have to do to pull that trailer out of the barn. It has to come up a muddy slippery little slope and I know our truck can't do it. Hoping that his Bobcat can.  I have kids hitting the ground in a little over two weeks and I need that barn empty and some gravel and sand brought in for the floor, a front gate, and some fencing moved. I will so excited to be in that barn. 

It is RAINING in CA. My guess would be 2" today, 3" the last storm a few days ago and 7"+ (rain gauge overflowed) the storm before that.  Rain is a necessary evil but I sure do miss my drought.


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## Baymule

@babsbag I have a story that you would appreciate about women that have something to prove. I worked at a garbage company and that is an extremely regulated industry. There was a female EPA inspector who terrorized the manager on a regular basis. She treated him like he was a criminal. We had made a road with concrete chunks that was in the construction boxes. There was bits of rebar in it and she claimed that the rusting iron  would pollute the environment. So, he had the yard hand drag a cutting torch out there and melt as much of those rebar nubs that he could, just to satisfy this witch on a power trip. Excuse me, but isn't iron a natural element?

On one visit, they walked around behind the mechanic shop building. She was looking for chemical and oil spills-a BIG no-no. She found a wet spot in the dirt and snarled, "What is THAT?" Boss said "I don't know." She pinched some soil between her fingers and brought it to her nose to smell it. There was no oil smell, but she glowered at the manager anyway. She cross examined him, trying to get him to say it was a chemical spill. She finished her inspection and left. Later that afternoon, the boss came to the mechanic shop and told us about her trying to nail him on a wet spot in the dirt. He truly didn't know why it was wet. The mechanics burst out laughing and said that they went behind the building and peed there. We could see the light dawning on the managers face as he realized the witch inspector had rubbed her fingers in pissy dirt and got a good snort of it up her nose. We all had a good laugh on that one! From then on, every time she showed up to terrorize him, he smiled all the way through her inspection!


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## Southern by choice




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## bonbean01




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## babsbag

@Baymule, thanks for the good laugh. They say to spread urine on the fence line to keep predators away, wonder if it works with inspectors too ?

Life is too short and too much fun for this kind of crap, why can't we all just get along? I am not afraid of her or the game, but I just don't really want to play. She doesn't know that I know how to make her job he**, I just don't want to. There is a freedom of information act and by simply filling out one form I could have a copy of every email to ANYONE that references me or my dairy. I can also ask her for a code section of EVERY single thing she tells me to do. She won't win this battle or this war, but really, do we have to do that this way? 

In some ways it might be better this way. I have the plans drawn (I doubt she knows that I know how to do that kind of thing) and will submit them to her boss as requested and now any questions I have will go to him, not her. May actually be a win win for me in the end. I would much rather deal with her boss.


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## babsbag

I haven't updated in a bit, just been too busy. Have not heard from the inspector or her boss so I will call him next week. I did a quick trip to NC in the middle of the "winter storm" and was able to visit with @Southern by choice and her family. Her DH was kind enough to drive me to Pelham NC to see the dairy equipment I am buying; the roads were no place for a rental car.  

My DH is in NC right now taking the equipment apart and loading it on a rental truck which he will then drive back to CA. Again Southern's family is coming to my rescue and will be helping DH with some of the dismantling and the loading of the truck. DH had a very serious foot surgery a few years ago and lost part of his foot and a toe so walking with heavy things is not easy for him. It is great to have friends that are such a blessing and willing to help. I have met a few of my really good friends on BYH and BYC; this is a great resource. 

I did not do an official kidding thread this year as everyone would get bored with 31 or 32 does to freshen; (including me).  So far I have had 5 does freshen. I have 4 doelings and 6 bucklings. My first doe freshened when I had to be gone for the day (wedding dress shopping with my future DIL) and even though DH was on kidding watch  I ended up losing 3 of her 4 kids. She was bred to a Nigi so I ended up with and adorable mini Alpine buckling.  Her first kid was born early morning and wasn't discovered until about 3 PM. Kid number two was sideways and had stopped the entire process so kids 3 and 4 were dead as well.   If DH had seen the first kid  I had a friend on standby that he was to call, but he didn't see the kid so didn't make the call until it was too late. 

The other does that have freshened have had no problems, just the way I like them.


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## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> I haven't updated in a bit, just been too busy. Have not heard from the inspector or her boss so I will call him next week. I did a quick trip to NC in the middle of the "winter storm" and was able to visit with @Southern by choice and her family. Her DH was kind enough to drive me to Pelham NC to see the dairy equipment I am buying; the roads were no place for a rental car.
> 
> My DH is in NC right now taking the equipment apart and loading it on a rental truck which he will then drive back to CA. Again Southern's family is coming to my rescue and will be helping DH with some of the dismantling and the loading of the truck. DH had a very serious foot surgery a few years ago and lost part of his foot and a toe so walking with heavy things is not easy for him. It is great to have friends that are such a blessing and willing to help. I have met a few of my really good friends on BYH and BYC; this is a great resource.
> 
> I did not do an official kidding thread this year as everyone would get bored with 31 or 32 does to freshen; (including me).  So far I have had 5 does freshen. I have 4 doelings and 6 bucklings. My first doe freshened when I had to be gone for the day (wedding dress shopping with my future DIL) and even though DH was on kidding watch  I ended up losing 3 of her 4 kids. She was bred to a Nigi so I ended up with and adorable mini Alpine buckling.  Her first kid was born early morning and wasn't discovered until about 3 PM. Kid number two was sideways and had stopped the entire process so kids 3 and 4 were dead as well.   If DH had seen the first kid  I had a friend on standby that he was to call, but he didn't see the kid so didn't make the call until it was too late.
> 
> The other does that have freshened have had no problems, just the way I like them.


Friends are a good thing
Glad you had the help


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## Ferguson K

Sorry about the kids.

With all good things come bad. At least mom and the other two survived.


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## babsbag

5 more kids today so a total of 15, 8 bucklings and 7 doelings. Two more does to kid this week, they are both at day 154 and holding. Next crop of kids starts the beginning of March.


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## Hens and Roos

congrats on the new kids!!


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## frustratedearthmother

Congrats - but tell those does that are still holding onto those babies that you expect doelings!


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## Ponker

WOW what an adventure. Good luck with your issue with the regulators. I hope everything works out for you. After all the work you put in and the relationship you cultivated with her, I can't believe she dug in her heels. Dealing with her boss, the real decision maker, will get you good results. I, too, worked in male dominated industry and it takes earning respect by doing a good job and respecting others. Those that try to be dominating eventually fall. You'll get this done and be making cheese before you know it!


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## babsbag

These last two are at day 155 and one is in labor, the other is holding tight. This year I am not really too concerned about does vs bucks as most will be sold. I might hang onto a few to replace a few obnoxious ones and I also *might* hang onto a few minis.   (don't tell @Goat Whisperer or @Southern by choice)... my minis are all their fault. 

I am only allowed to have 30 goats and no one is counting right now, but if the county ever did come looking I would like to be in compliance. Buying the land next to us is always on my mind but it isn't happening yet. Trying to refi my house first. 

And just so people know, refinancing a home with a hobby farm when you actually file a Schedule F on your taxes in a challenge.  

Would love to buy adjoining land and actually move the dairy to that address; at least on paper. That is the nice thing about a mobile dairy, it can go wherever I want it to go.


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## babsbag

Kidding is done until the beginning of March. 18 kids in a week...I'm done too. 9 boys, 9 girls. The last two kidded today with a single doe and twins, one of each.  Time to get back to work on the dairy trailer now that kidding is taking a break. Couldn't have asked for better weather, 70's all last week and gorgeous. All born during the day and no other problems other than the first doe with quads. Really glad that is over but it was near text book perfect.


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## Goat Whisperer

Glad you have that stress behind you! 

Kinda shocked that you got exactly 50/50 B/D! When does that ever happen? 

BTW the Mini's & ND's, when you start adding the numbers can only count as half a goat


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## frustratedearthmother




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## Southern by choice

Oh and I think it's great you may keep a few mini's.

Trouble gave just over 7# today! 
3+# this am and 4# this evening!

The loading of the truck went great but wow this am it was 
*6 degrees  *But it did warm up to about 25 by 1pm windchill 21. I stayed warm!  
Can I just say I SWEAR that freezer seemed so much SMALLER the FIRST time I saw it... it was like it grew 3x its size
That was INSANE moving that! I actuall y left them... I was afraid to watch.  I went up to the house and had tea!  
I did nothing  the MEN made me get out of the way  

It is all so exciting!


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## babsbag

@Goat Whisperer I don't think that the county would count them as half a goat, but good suggestion.  I too am glad to have this round behind me, I have many many more to go, that was only 9, so not even a third of the way done. One doe today had 1 buck and 1 doe, my first mixed set of kids this year. All of the rest have been all bucks or all does. The next round starts March 4 and I have 11 does due between 3/4 and 3/11 


@Southern by choice  Thank you and your family for helping DH get that equipment loaded. Unfortunately you won't be here to help unload that freezer and I can't just go to the house and have tea.  And I still have to find a place out of the weather to store all this stuff until the trailer is done. Guess I better put cleaning the garage on my list of things to do this week. It should rain on Wed. so maybe that is a good day to clean the garage and put all the Christmas stuff in the attic and get the bee hives out of there...and take the recycle stuff to the recycle place. Never boring around here.


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## newbiekat

Question for ya @babsbag ... You say you're only allowed to have 30 head on your property.. When it comes kidding time is there a limit to how long you can keep babies at your property before it becomes a problem having more than 30 head?


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## babsbag

I am really not sure what animal control would do with a bunch of babies added to my head count. Fortunately I am off the beaten path so the only people that see my goats are my one set neighbors and they won't turn me in. 

I would like to think that there wouldn't be a problem keeping kids until they are weaned and sold, but hopefully I will never have to find out.


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## ragdollcatlady

I don't think most animal control agencies get too worried about it until babies are old enough to be weaned and sold. As long as your regulars/keepers are in the normal number allotment, you should be fine.


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## babsbag

By the time this kidding season is over I am looking at probably 60+ kids. I will be overrun with babies; most of which will be sold. The biggest problem to staying "legal"  will be keeping does for replacements...I just need to buy more land


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## ragdollcatlady

I agree, you need more land!  

We are just starting our kidding watch. Bailey is up first. I love her! While I hope she has some boys to sell, I really want girls so I can keep them! She is huge! She is truly a big goat and I can't wait to see what we get! Thank you for all these beautiful goats!


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## babsbag

I was more than happy to see them go to a good home and I was just happy that Bailey didn't end up at the auction like my other goat I loaned out.   I still can't believe she did that.  The goat was downright mean to other goats with but she sure was pretty. 

Hoping for some spots.    Also hoping that someday you will breed Bellini and her sister and you get some BIG goats from them; their size still has me puzzled. 

I know you told me, but who did you breed Baily to?


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## ragdollcatlady

Bailey, Rigatoni and Ravi were all bred to Rocky. 

I just registered with ABGA and they accepted my herd name and tattoo...now I gotta get the rest of the registration papers sent in.  

I think, based on the size of Beefaroni, that Bellini and Cosmo are over 100 lbs... I think Cherry might be 130-140 or so and she is only a little taller than those 2. My kid is only 135 lbs and didn't think that he could pick up any more than 100 lbs so I can only guess. Bailey and Rigatoni have to be close to 200 lbs (they are gigantic), Ravi might be 170, so I would guess Andy is around 275 and Rocky 230 or so. That is me just guessing of course. I would love to have access to a scale! Bellini should be bred for nigi mixes this year. As small as Cherry is, maybe I can breed the 2 smaller boers to boer bucks this next time around. Either way, I love them!


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## babsbag

I bought a livestock scale and it is still in the box. I might get it to the barn one of these days. It wasn't nearly as much as I thought it would be. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Livestock-V...l-Pig-Scale-/291333564493?hash=item43d4d5684d


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## babsbag

So far I have 34 kids on the ground, 18 does, 16 bucks...pretty even split.  The barn is getting full but since I am not ready to milk I am letting the does raise their kids so it is very very crowded; certainly not what I had planned.


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## Latestarter

That's a lot of kids.


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## babsbag

Meet Mia. She is the newest addition to my ranch. I have two LGDs already; my female, Sigueme, is 5 years old and my male, Francis, is 3. I decided I needed to get a puppy for them to train. Tonight she is in the house getting introduced to my house dogs and cats, tomorrow she will go to the barn. She is a half sister to my female and I hope that she will be an awesome LGD just like Sigueme. She has already met her future mentors and it went well, but the goats with kids sure weren't sure about a new dog in their barn.


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## frustratedearthmother

She is absolutely precious!


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## Latestarter

Congrats Babs! She's quite pretty  The coloring is interesting, what combination of breeds is she?


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## babsbag

Her sire is an Anatolian x Ovcharka and is brindle in color. Her mom is Kangal, Maremma, Akbash and looks like a Kangal. Her sire is also the sire to my female, Sigueme.  

In case anyone is curious, Sigueme means "follow me" in Spanish. 

Here are some pictures of my other two. 

 Sigueme looks a lot like an Anatolian, Francis is 3/4 Pyr x Toli and looks like a Pyr. But now I know where the coloring of some of the pups I have raised came from.


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## Latestarter

She got some Ovcharka coloring! That was my first thought when I saw her, but had never heard you mention that breed in the past. So now you'll have 3 very good looking dogs


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## babsbag

Thanks @Latestarter . I love my dogs and can't imagine my life without them. Francis went nuts barking the other morning and when I went out to check on him he was guarding and cleaning a newborn kid that had been born in the water trough. Kid would have died if he hadn't put up such a fuss and cleaned its face.  Love these dogs.

I usually skip the Ovcharka part as most people just give me a blank stare. I have had pups born here that look pretty close to Mia, white legs and all, a strong family resemblance for sure.

She is sleeping in the house tonight with my Border Collies, hope I sleep too    So far I have rescued my carpet, my husband's boot, the corner of my cedar chest, and my chair from her puppy needle teeth. It has been years since I have done this stage, guess I need to clean up the barn, move the shovel and the hose and get ready for puppyhood


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## Ponker

It had been a long time since I raised a puppy when I brought Prince, my Anatolian Shepherd home. I can relate totally to rescuing your belongings and picking up everything from the barn floor. Don't forget any extension cords! I had to rescue a couple. 

Beautiful pup. 

How is the dairy building coming along? I read the entire journey and was completely fascinated. You're admirable for following your dream. You've inspired me to follow mine by completing my new farm with Nigerian Dwarf milk goats. I'm traveling for them in mid April and I couldn't be happier to have made the decision. I have sheep and began to think that *well, maybe I shouldn't... *Just because I have some sheep, rabbits, chickens, and ducks. 

Thank you for sharing your experience. Can't wait to hear what happens next.


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## OneFineAcre

Congrats on the pup


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## Latestarter

Oh yeah... puppy chewing... Lost a few items to Mel before he got past it. He still tries to "steal" stuff and bring it outside with him to play with. But it's all well worth it in the end!


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## babsbag

The dairy is coming along slowly. Kidding season is a lot of work and I am not even milking most of the does; just no time. I have the trailer insulated and some of the plywood on the walls. We have to build two interior walls before I can finish the plywood on the perimeter walls. I am also struggling with trimming out the windows on the outside of the trailer. Stuff like this usually doesn't stump me but this one is just not logical to me. I have watched youtube and read a bunch and hopefully tomorrow I will get it on; or at least try. If not tomorrow then next week when this little rainstorm coming on Sunday goes away.  Also fighting tendinitis in one elbow and possibly a chipped elbow on the other one so I am having a hard time doing repetitive chores, like holding a drill and driving screws, or milking a goat. My goal is two sheets of plywood a day and I have 14 to install for the perimeter; 4 are done. 

Hopefully this weekend we will lay out the inside walls and decide where the doors are going. I need one door for me and then a small door on each side for the goats to enter and exit. 

Here is a picture of the trailer and my window project. I have all the roof trim on, that was fun...NOT. I don't have much experience (none) with steel siding and all of it's trim but I need this to be water tight so I am learning as I go. DH usually lets me do all of the finish work and really any work that I can do, such as insulation, plywood, paint, paneling, flooring, etc. He does all of the rough framing, the electrical, and he used to do the plumbing. But now that there are those GatorBite fittings I have been doing most of the plumbing. He will of course help me with anything that is too heavy or awkward, like putting the roofing on. 






Also had to take a break from building to get the new barn put together and the kidding pens built. Still have some issues with rain blowing in the front but nothing I can't deal with for the rest of this year.  We were building the trailer in the barn until we got it mostly water tight so I was really pushed to get it done and moved before kidding season started. 

My only barn challenge right now is hay storage. I feed  4' x 8' 1200 lb. bales (saves a bunch of money) but the old storage place is too far from the new barn. My tractor can't lift them so once they are unloaded that is where they stay. They need to be out of the rain and yet accessible to me (and not the goats). I have plans for the future, but not right now. Working on it...


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## babsbag

Here are some pictures of the barn. The last one is what it looked like 3 weeks before kidding started. I used lots of lime, stall dry, and gravel to get rid of the water. Hydrated lime absorbs the water really well, but it is dangerous to inhale so you have to be careful.  Next year there will be a solid front on the south side (prevailing wind/rain side) and I will bring in more gravel to make it mound. 

I had a gravel truck bring me 20 yds of gravel...he got stuck in the mud.


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## babsbag

So Mia is a pill, a total and udder brat, a hardheaded stubborn PITA, but I love her (most of the time). She is a different pup for sure, she is not particularly bonded to me, she isn't thrilled to see me, and doesn't really care when I leave. I guess those are good traits in an LGD, just different that the pups I have raised. She is very aloof but learning that tummy rubs are good. 

She is all puppy, and all teeth. She mouths anything and everything she can find. She doesn't really chase the goats but all those babies are just so darn irresistible when no one else will play with her, but over all she does pretty good. She is only 3.5 months old so playing is very important to her. 

She is the first LGD I have raised as a single pup and it is definitely harder. I had my first oops the other night that could have been a disaster, and it was all my fault. I have a pen with 5 kids in it that I am bottle raising, one being a 3 day old LaMancha. Well I forgot to latch the gate and Mia likes to lay by the gate and sleep and I guess she leaned against it just right and the baby goats got out. The poor little LaMancha took the brunt of Mia's love and adoration and got her front legs pretty chewed up. Nothing deep, just many many scratches and scrapes, looks like road burn. Totally my fault, totally what a bored puppy would do, can't blame her in the least. 

The baby will be fine, her legs are shaved so I can watch them, she was in shock when I got to her but alive, for that I was grateful. Her legs were cold, her mouth was cold, and I am sure she was in a lot of pain.   I have her on Pen. just because I can and some banamine for pain. She is a house goat for a few days which is a problem all of its own. She thinks the Border Collies are for playing with and nursing on. They on the other hand are certain that that is not in their job description. I have to watch them like a hawk.

So is Mia a bad LGD? NO!!!  Mia is a puppy and puppies play, and chew, and need to grow up. She was doing what puppies do. 

Am I a bad goat mommy? YES !!!


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## frustratedearthmother

Ahhhh... you're not a bad goat mommy at all...just busy and perhaps a bit distracted with all that's going on in your life.   I think we've all had 'those' days where we do (or not do - like latching a gate) something and then want to kick ourselves in the backside for forgetting.  It happens.

Yep - Mia is a puppy and doing what puppies do.  Sigh... she WILL grow up someday and probably be awesome at her job!

I've been thinking about another LGD - but dang - I don't want to go through the puppy raising stage again!


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## samssimonsays

HUGS!! You are NOT a bad goat mommy! I came home yesterday and our goats were loose with no one home.... I must have forgotten to put the chain on the gate... I have no clue how or when I forgot to but I did. They pushed the door open and all walked out.   Sounds like we both had "bad goat mommy" mommy moments yesterday. But that isn't a "bad" moment, just an accident and they happen! HUGS! I know how hard it is training a pup with the goats. Those babies just move so quick and are their size that they wanna play with them.


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## Latestarter

So glad that the kid is OK... a little worse for wear maybe but no real harm done. Hope Mia comes around for you to be a little more "bonded".


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## babsbag

Mia spent the entire day with the general population goats and I am happy to report that none of them look worse for the wear. She was a very good girl and I think she spent most of the day sleeping under the hay feeder with my other LGD. She seems to do better with the kids that have their dams with them and when there is more space for the goats to just move out of her way.  She got a little carried away tonight playing with the bottle babies so she got a time out while I fed them their bottles. She is much more interested in a kid that has milk on its face  

She did torment my rooster though.


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## MrsKuhn

I will happily join that cheering section, I mean my name is Spirit... lol 


Latestarter said:


> Way to go Babs! With an attitude like that, failure is NOT an option! Go for the gold!
> <---cheering section


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## babsbag

I have run into a pretty big glitch with the dairy and I really need prayers right now. The person that is supposed to move my trailers to their final resting area and do the grading for the pad is separated from his wife (who is my friend) and it looks like they are getting a divorce. He told me today that he sold all of his equipment and that he will be moving. I had planned on him doing the work on 5/16, I was really pushing to get this done as I knew that there was a potential that he would do this. I just didn't think he would do it this soon. He told me tonight that he sold it all and that he couldn't help me. I told him I would rent him a Bobcat if needed and he said he would try and borrow it from the guy he sold it to. Please pray that he either comes through for me or that God places another person in my life that can do this. I am really at a loss right now and having a bit of a panic attack. I have absolutely no one else in mind for this project. He had the right equipment and has the right skills, I really was counting on him. I could probably find someone to do the grading but to find someone willing to move these trailers will be a bit more...quite a bit. This guy was willing to tackle the impossible and that is about what this is. He was going to move them with his Bobcat. 

I have a million things to do to get ready for him to move them. ( yes, I am saying that by faith). My DH is only here on weekends so that makes it even more fun. We still have a buck pen to build (they are currently in the area that the trailers will be in), some shelter covers to dismantle, trees to cut down, old manure to move, 20 yards of gravel to buy, fill dirt to buy, fences to move, stumps to grind, and a shed to move. All that in the 5 days that he is here plus whatever I can do during the week while he is gone. I will get a young man I know to do the stumps and the take the shelters down once the bucks are moved. He can probably do fences too. But it is a bit overwhelming. 

Then add to this that I am trying to get our house refinanced and I have a deck to finish and a wood stove surround to install so we can pass an FHA inspection; which is next week.  Also some paint to touch up and I praying that the inspector doesn't care about the garage that has no rain gutter, the carpet that is not in the bedroom, or the baseboard that is not installed. I took the carpet out because of a cat and I want to install laminate but haven't had the time or the desire. I've been too busy building a dairy and milking goats. It takes a lot of time to milk 11 goats and I should be milking 11 more. 

One of the things I will be looking for in future replacement does is the orifice size. I have some goats I can milk in 5 minutes or less, some take 15 minutes or more; it makes a big difference.


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## samssimonsays

Many prayers sent your way! If I were closer I would help in a heart beat


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## frustratedearthmother

That's a lot to have on your plate.  Are there any 4-H or FFA groups that might volunteer to help with the smaller stuff if asked?  Trade milk for work?   I know God doesn't give us more than we can handle, but sometimes He wants us to delegate.  Prayers sent your way.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Praying for you @babsbag!


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## frustratedearthmother

Craigslist ad:   Free wood to folks for cutting down trees and free compost for people to move the manure...?


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## Latestarter

Sorry you're so overwhelmed right now. Hope it all comes together for you. Wish I was closer to help...


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## MrsKuhn

oh @babsbag let me know if / how I can help


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## Ferguson K

Babs, if only we lived closer. :/ Praying!


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## OneFineAcre

I'm sure all will turn out fine.


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## babsbag

Monday is the big day. My friend is borrowing a Bobcat that he sold a year ago to his SIL to my project. I am SO thankful for all of the prayers and good wishes. This project is not for the faint of heart and I just didn't know of anyone else I could ask to do this. He is going to grade some dirt, pull out some trees, move 20 yds of gravel, and last but not least move 3 trailers into a place that a truck cannot go, he will be using his Bobcat to move these for me. And if you saw the mountain I live on and what he has to navigate to make this happen you would understand my sense of panic when I thought he wasn't going to be able to do this for me. 

I have had a young man here all week cutting down trees and hauling away the wood. I am keeping some of it but most of it I was just thankful to see it gone. He will be back tomorrow to finish the trees and to finish dismantling the old goat shelters. He has been a blessing and I would have never gotten done without him. My DH works out of town all week so it is up to me to figure out how to get many of the projects done and to figure out what I can leave for the weekend. This weekend we will cut a shed lose from its foundation so it can be moved, cut down two trees that have lights in them, and scrape wasted hay and manure out of the old pens and stock pile it for the new orchard. And the one other job that I haven't figured out how to do yet is abandoning a water line as it will most likely get broken during the grading and trailer moving but it is the water line to the new barn... We have a trencher but everything is in the path right now. I may just run the pipe above ground for now but the problem with that is that is goes across a driveway unless I go over hill and over dale. I can't really trench through the driveway either as it is gravel on a pretty steep slope and it has geotextile fabric under the gravel that I don't want to tear up.  Just not sure and the plumbing is always my job.  I'm sure that whatever I do it will have to get redone when this project is done. Of course it will be 90° this weekend, not a good time to leave goats with no water.


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## samssimonsays

I wish I could send some of my weather your way for this project... We are expected to get snow flurries tomorrow. 

I am still praying for you that this all goes as smoothly and easy as possible.


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## frustratedearthmother

If you have to go over the driveway with the water line can you 'sleeve' it so that it's inside another pipe to protect it from traffic?


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## Mini Horses

ou may be lucky & the lines won't break BUT...I'm wth FEM, sleeve any bove ground.   Also, if you had  some heavy steel, or even heavy plywood that you could place over the location of the current underground, it would help disperse the weight -- if that is the main reason you feel damage.

I'm sure you will have every container available full of water Sunday night at the barn.   Plenty of hose, also.
I assume you have cut-offs to stop water flow should they be broken.  

We will all be waiting anxiously for a report on Tuesday!   Pics?     Wishing you all the best of luck & good weather!!!!


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## Latestarter




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## MrsKuhn

Fingers crossed that the weather stays nice for you so you can get some things done this weekend. But rain is headed our way for Saturday when I watched the news last night. It should at least be cooling down a little and sticking in the mid 80s vs 90s. Glad your friend could borrow the CAT for the day and move those trailers and get a few other things knocked off your list, I know you have been stressing a little about that. Fingers crossed the weather stays nice for you to get things done!


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## babsbag

If it rains tomorrow I will just have to get wet. I can guarantee you that I am not made of sugar and I don't melt. There is NO time in this schedule for rain.


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## MrsKuhn

My apologies i wasn't meaning to make it sound like you couldn't work in the rain. I Was just stating I hope it holds off because I know it makes for less than desirable conditions. 

Rain just makes things more interesting


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## OneFineAcre

Good luck


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## babsbag

No apology is necessary   I had heard it might rain but I was trying to ignore that in hopes that it would go away. It says now afternoon thunderstorms so I am ok with that. In CA rain is always welcomed, I just need it to rain only at night.


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## babsbag

My friend came with his Bobcat and did some grading but we couldn't do what we had planned without renting a backhoe to pull the trees out. I called 5 rental places and none of them had any backhoes in the yard so we reserved one for next Tuesday.  We worked our tails off getting everything dismantled and all the trees cut. The manure was all pushed to the bottom of the old buck pen and will become my new orchard eventually; trees should love it. It is a transformation but the moving of the trailers is on hold until the dirt work is done.


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## babsbag

After spending a week trying to rent a backhoe one was finally found and the trees were all removed but not without a minor problem. The trees were all left with a 3-4' trunk on them so that the backhoe would have something to push on when removing them. One of the trees swung when it was being picked up and came down right on a hydraulic line and broke the fitting on the ram. That ended that project for the day. $160.00 and one day later back in business and the stumps are all out. Now I work on getting rid of them. Wish I had a clam shell bucket on my tractor but I don't so I am having to tie straps around them and lift them  out of the pile they are in. Then I cut the trunk off of them to save for fire wood and to not pay the dump for the extra weight. Then I have to put a strap back on the root ball and lift them into the trailer. Fortunately it is a dump trailer. I need to have this done by Friday as my truck and trailer will gone all weekend and I can't work on that project without it. Next Monday the bobcat is coming back to do the grading, move the gravel, and move the trailers.


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## Latestarter

Well, a little behind the original schedule you wanted, but it's all coming together for you. I can only imagine how happy you will be when it's all finally done, in place, operating and maybe even generating some income...


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## babsbag

Yeah, a little behind. As I spend two hours milking everyday I wish I had planned all my goats to freshen in June and not Feb.  It is getting old fast, not to mention throwing away the milk. I wish I had a pig, but no place for a pen right now and no time to build one so no pig this year.  

At this point I just want the trailers in place and my yard back. I have 20 yards of gravel piled in the driveway to the barn, an open trench where we had to replace a sewer line we broke, stumps piled everywhere, and craters where the stumps were. It is a depressing mess but I have a lot of faith in the person doing the dirt work for me so I know it will all come together. He is a perfectionist which is what this project needs right now.  I do most of this work on my own which makes it tough too. I just need this part done. I am ready to do the floors in the milk barn but wanted to move the trailers first. I am anxious to actually get back to work on the trailer itself, this part of the project has turned out to be much bigger than I had imagined and it has taken a toll on me physically for sure. And the young man I hire to help me has injured his back and is unable to work


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## Latestarter

I am intimately familiar with back issues   Hurt mine in 87 while on active duty and it's never been the same since. It's not fun at all. Hope his isn't serious.


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## babsbag

He's been out of commission for about three weeks and he is only 21 years old and usually nothing stops him


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## BlessedWithGoats

Prayers that he gets well! And @Latestarter, for you too!


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## Ferguson K

Prayers that you get back on track.  Nothing ever seems to go exactly how you planned them to.


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## babsbag

The trailers are moved!!!! They aren't level, but they are in their final resting spots and believe it or not I am not sure what to do next. Seems so strange to have them in place. I want to do the floor next but I need the trailer level as the epoxy is self leveling so it needs to be relatively level to pour it.

Don't pay an attention the front of the yellow trailer that isn't done. I am trying to remember why it isn't done and not getting far on that memory. That part of the trailer was on the opposite side from my house so I seldom saw it...out of sight, out of mind.

The red trailer is the milking barn and milk house. The door on the left will be where the goats come in to be milked and they will exit directly across from that door, out the other side.  The next door is the "man" door and I need to do the floor before I install the door. There will be a covered paved area in front of the goat door too, they have to have a place to stay while they are waiting to be milked.  The back of that trailer is the milk house which will house the bulk tank and the wash equipment. The milk will be pumped from the bulk tank into the pasteurizer which is in the yellow trailer.

The yellow trailer is the processing trailer. It has the pasteurizer, bottling equipment and cheese making equipment in it. Also a storage room. We will be adding another room/porch onto the front as a place to keep shoes and jackets and hair nets, etc. This trailer is a clean room so certain procedures have to be followed when entering that building.  We will also build a place to house a commercial refrigerator for the bottled milk.

The white trailer will be my office, a place to get warm during kidding season, and the required restroom.

The gardener side of me wants to plant some trees...NOW!!!! It looks so barren and hot and miserable; I need green and flowers, like these. But I know that needs to wait and I need to focus once again on the buildings themselves and not the landscaping.


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## babsbag

Oh, the tan shed is what used to be my milking barn. I am not sure what it fate is at this point. It may become the equipment room for the hot water heater, the vacuum pump, and the balance tanks for the milking system.


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## samssimonsays

That is awesome!


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## Latestarter

A HUGE step forward! Congrats on finally getting them in place! After so long I can understand how you'd be thinking "what next?" I'm sure you'll figure it out soon enough though.


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## Southern by choice




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## Hens and Roos

Looking Great!!


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## OneFineAcre




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## misfitmorgan

Wow Babs, all the work you did is crazy and congrats on getting the trailers moved into place..seems i came just in time lol.

I love the epoxy floor you did btw 

Whatever happened to the inspection lady and her boss?


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## Ferguson K

Finally getting caught up and not just liking posts that I've skimmed over or quick reading.


You've moved mountains these last few weeks! Congratulations! You're so close we can taste it here.


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## Mini Horses

Great job!!    Now, to help you "remember"  (aren't these senior moments the pits??)  You will probably want to get them all leveled and permanent support under them for that.   Seems that is THE next step.   

After that, you can do floors and doors and steps and porches and wow, you get the picture.   Ok, it's all floating in your head  -- sit and relax, it will come together just like the rest of it has!!  

Shame you are on West Coast....lots of us out here would come and do a couple "help" days if we were closer.   Since we aren't there I hope you "feel" our excitement and sharing of your passion to live your dream!   Keep up the good work -- and it really IS a lot of work you have accomplished.


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## babsbag

Thanks for the offer of help @Mini Horses but I am indeed on the "right" coast and it seems that I have a lot of supporters on the "wrong" coast. LOL  I would keep @Southern by choice and family so busy they wouldn't have time for their own goats, they would just have to share mine; bet she's glad she lives so far away. 

Yes, leveling is definitely next. But to add to my stress  my son is getting married in 2 weeks and I can't find a dress so I am altering one my mom gave me. It has these little beads all over the bodice that do two things...get in the way of the sewing machine needle, and fall off.  It seems that dresses these days are designed for those under the age of 16 and under the size of 8. I am neither. I didn't show off my midriff when I was in high school so why would I want to start at the age of 58 at my son's wedding ?

I ordered a dress I can't return that was custom made. It is too small, it looks awful, and their sage green is chartreuse.   But it got here 7 days early and the website says my order is being processed. Eloping sounds really good but I guess it is too late for that. I think the dairy may be on hold for a few weeks.


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Thanks for the offer of help @Mini Horses but I am indeed on the "right" coast and it seems that I have a lot of supporters on the "wrong" coast. LOL  I would keep @Southern by choice and family so busy they wouldn't have time for their own goats, they would just have to share mine; bet she's glad she lives so far away.
> 
> Yes, leveling is definitely next. But to add to my stress  my son is getting married in 2 weeks and I can't find a dress so I am altering one my mom gave me. It has these little beads all over the bodice that do two things...get in the way of the sewing machine needle, and fall off.  It seems that dresses these days are designed for those under the age of 16 and under the size of 8. I am neither. I didn't show off my midriff when I was in high school so why would I want to start at the age of 58 at my son's wedding ?
> 
> I ordered a dress I can't return that was custom made. It is too small, it looks awful, and their sage green is chartreuse.   But it got here 7 days early and the website says my order is being processed. Eloping sounds really good but I guess it is too late for that. I think the dairy may be on hold for a few weeks.



We are more in the middle but still to far away to help...believe me we would be all over helping if we could. 

That is exactly why i dont shop for clothes....i feel like i must be shopping for a 15 yr old twig when i go in the stores. The shirts are the worst, i see so many cute shirts and i pick them up and the back is all lace, or half gone, or there is a big mesh see thru band on the middle....im like really how many people do you think wanna walk about with bits hanging out that are over the age of 25.

i will be in the same boat soon, one of my best friends is getting married in August which means i have to shop for a dress 

i hope you enjoy your son's wedding very much babs!!


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## Latestarter

Congrats to you, your family and your son  A happy but sad time (despite or because of the dress too)... They grow up and move on so fast! Wishing him a successful life! The dairy will still be there waiting for you after the wedding.


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## babsbag

misfitmorgan said:


> Whatever happened to the inspection lady and her boss?



Without going back and reading where I left off in a nutshell I was told that I don't need the passageway between the milking parlor and the milk room, the self closing door is fine.  Her boss really gave it all back to her to deal with. They are not thrilled about the trailers as they are afraid they are not stationery, but again, they are making it up as they go and I had their verbal ok on the trailers in the beginning. Also, the yellow trailer was a permitted facility at one time.  They want the trailers on concrete slabs, which isn't going to happen. I may meet them in the middle and pour concrete in the walkways between then but there will be skirting around the trailers so why would I waste money and pour concrete under them.  Once I get them leveled I will invite them out to see then and I think they were realize that I will not be towing these around behind my truck.


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Without going back and reading where I left off in a nutshell I was told that I don't need the passageway between the milking parlor and the milk room, the self closing door is fine.  Her boss really gave it all back to her to deal with. They are not thrilled about the trailers as they are afraid they are not stationery, but again, they are making it up as they go and I had their verbal ok on the trailers in the beginning. Also, the yellow trailer was a permitted facility at one time.  They want the trailers on concrete slabs, which isn't going to happen. I may meet them in the middle and pour concrete in the walkways between then but there will be skirting around the trailers so why would I waste money and pour concrete under them.  Once I get them leveled I will invite them out to see then and I think they were realize that I will not be towing these around behind my truck.



i can see why they wouldnt want it towed around all over but do they really think your going to put all the work in to make it be water tight and spotlessly clean...then rattle it around behind a truck. Some times i dont think those government agencies use their common sense a whole lot. We deal with one government entity at work pretty much constantly and what knuckleheads  they are.


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## babsbag

And the trailer will have skirting around it and permanent drains and water lines. So where am I taking this? One of them is 12' wide too so a special permit would be needed if I ever wanted to tow it anywhere. The other one weighs more than my truck. Now I will say that the bathroom is in an RV that could be towed but that was THEIR idea for solving my restroom dilemma since the dairy is below our septic tank.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm not really sure they can say anything about the rv being towed off...in the off season when the diary isnt in use but i have no clue how that would play out offically. i really dont get the logic either...your going thru a ton of work to get it clean, in order, level, water tight, plumbed, and skirted.....to tow it down the road  DH would have laughed right in their face and asked if they thought about that before saying it? i understand they didnt actually say it but he is a very tall quite blunt man and would have picked up on any inference.

Glad its sorted out now it seems and cant wait for more pics....dont die in the heat!!


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## babsbag

Kidding season is officially over, last LM buckling was born yesterday. 

29 does freshened this year with 23 bucklings and 24 doelings. I had  three kids that were lost when Mango freshened and I was wedding dress shopping with my future DIL and I had one doe abort late term. Other than that no serious problems so I would say it was a successful year. Oh, and one born with a cleft palate (she is still with me).
I am keeping 2 Alpine doelings that are polled, 6 mini alpine doelings, 2 mini alpine bucklings, 2 LM doelings that were gifted to me, and possibly two other alpine doelings just because I can.

Time to be thinking about next year and time to pull my 2 bucklings from the does before there are any oops. Not sure how "seasonal" my minis are. 

I will be breeding my yearling polled Alpine goats to my Nigi buck, my LMs to my LM buck, my minis to my mini bucks, and the rest is undecided. I want to send some Alpines to @ragdollcatlady so she can make me some mini bucklings that aren't related to any of my doelings. Wonder what she would say about that?


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## Latestarter

I'm sure she'd be thrilled... She may not want to give them back


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## ragdollcatlady

babsbag said:


> I want to send some Alpines to @ragdollcatlady so she can make me some mini bucklings that aren't related to any of my doelings. Wonder what she would say about that?



I am afraid I don't have anywhere to house any more goats at the moment....unless they want to live inside the clothes dryer or something.  The beds are taken by cats, the dogs live in the kitchen, and every goat pen is full out here. The boers are eating me out of house and home and my nigi buck Backyard Swagger has an appointment to file down his destruction tools so he can stop tearing holes in the decrepit old dog run that is supposed to keep them in......BUUUUT...... I do happen to have an incredibly sweet little "Fra Gi Le" (it's french...or so I've been told  )buckling that loves bottles of milk, moonlight frolicking and a good nap any time of day, that would be a great addition to your buck pen.....


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## babsbag

I hope you know that you are an absolute enabler. 

That's the thing about these darn bucks if you keep any offspring eventually (in my case two years) you need a new buck. I like my bucks so I hate feeling like they are expendable. I have kept two mini bucks to breed back to their half sisters but if I keep any of those kids next year I will be looking for an unrelated mini buck which I won't have. So I guess I need to just stop keeping the offspring but there are always those ones that I REALLY like.  And right now I am just playing with minis to see how they milk.  

The other problem is how to sort all these bucks at breeding time. Two minis, one ND, one LM, and one Alpine. It will get crazy out there when they are all in rut. DH is supposed to build me a couple of small buck pens for breeding season but if I tell him I need 6 of them he will flip.


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## misfitmorgan

Just tell him you need 2...then after their built...2 more...then 2 more....maybe he wont count them up  You could always put one or two on a picket line for rut. We had to do that last year with our mini nubian because he was getting his butt kicked by our alpine. You may be able to get away with one pen the the mini's/nd and one pen for the standard size bucks....i know OFA only has the one pen for all his bucks or did last i knew at his new place.


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## Latestarter

babsbag said:


> DH is supposed to build me a couple of small buck pens for breeding season but if I tell him I need 6 of them he will flip.



So tell him you want a nice round dozen pens... for rotational purposes of course... then after he wigs out, say Oh, OK, fine... I can live with 6...


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## babsbag

I know having the standards and minis together is a no go, tried that last year. I am going to need a pen for breeding too as I prefer to put my doe in with whatever buck I am using one on one or sometimes two does to one. I might take out some dividers and repurpose my kidding stall area for that this year. But being that I am breeding 4 bucks I might need more than one pen at the same time or it could be a very long and drawn out kidding season.  AI looks better all of the time.


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## babsbag

I love weekend surprise visits.  About 10:00 this morning I get a visit from a CA Dept. of Food and Agriculture Officer who is investigating and anonymous tip that I am selling cheese and/or milk illegally.   Of course I'm not. I have been super diligent about not even selling milk to people raising animals let alone making cheese and selling it. I have one friend that I gave some too about 3 years ago but I haven't even been giving it to friends lately. First I have no time to make cheese, and second, it is illegal and I don't want to do anything that would draw unwanted attention to my future dairy. 

The officer was nice enough and he started into this big long speech about how it is illegal to sell milk/cheese without a license (like I don't know that) and I finally interrupted him and told him that I am in the process of getting licensed and that I know all the laws, I am not breaking any now, and that I don't intend to break any later. I asked who gave him my name and it said that it was anonymous tip that said I was selling it a Farmer's Markets. 

All the people that know me and know that I have goats also know that I am NOT selling anything, they also know that I am working on a dairy. I can't imagine any of them would do something like this, makes no sense. So I have come up with two possibilities. One is that the dairy inspector sent him out since I haven't talked to her in months maybe she thinks I just gave up and that I am doing it on the side. 

The other possibility is a local food inspector that approves permits for the cottage food vendors and also checks out vendors at farmer's markets. She just visited and licensed a good friend of mine for her cottage food permit and maybe my friend mentioned that I have goats and milk and all that good stuff. The local inspector is a little over the top on a lot of her inspections so maybe she read something into the conversation that wasn't there. I also just applied for my Certified Producers Certificate so I can sell honey and eggs and soap at Farmer's Markets. 

But if it was one of those two people why make an anonymous tip, just tell him and me who is asking, I have nothing to hide. But whoever it was that gave him my name was certainly barking up the wrong tree. I just wish I knew. He said it could be someone who just thinks I am competition for them, but they know my name so it has to be someone that knows me and since I haven't been to any markets it has to be someone that is purposefully trying to get me in trouble and making up stories. Just strange and a tad bit unsettling.  I don't know anyone selling milk legally or illegally so not sure who I am supposedly in competition with.


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## Latestarter

wow... that's totally strange. Hate when you're left wondering like that...


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## Southern by choice

Just wow!

So let me see...
You are spending $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to build a LICENSED DAIRY... so why would you go through all that trouble to sell illegally? WOW

Why can't people mind their  own business. This whole anonymous crap is so wrong! You should have the right to know who your accuser is. BS!


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh My Gosh.... That stinks!


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## Hens and Roos

That stinks!!


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## BlessedWithGoats

I'm sorry Babs!!


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## OneFineAcre

That really stinks


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## babsbag

The floor is done in the milk house part of the trailer and I am putting up wall covering today and for the rest of the week. Taking it slow in this heat. I am having a discussion with my inspector regarding equipment placement. I told her that the milk pump and air separator were going in the milkbarn and this is what I get back from her. (Her bolding of text). 

Here is what CCR 480.5(x) says,
(x) Milk pumps, pipelines, and air separators which are a part of an enclosed pipeline system may be installed in the passageway* or an area approved by the Director,* in the milking barn, provided, that all of the equipment is protected from contamination at all times. Plate type or internal tubular coolers may be installed in the milkhouse or passageway.

So she wants a site visit before I install the equipment but the equipment is wall mounted and backing has been installed already in the milk barn. I asked her if *in the milking barn, provided, that all of the equipment is protected from contamination at all times,* does not apply to me for some reason. Waiting for a reply.

If the job of the CA Dept of Ag is to make me crazy they are performing their job well. It there job is to wear me down so I will quit pursuing this endeavor they are failing. But here goes round two and it is getting old. I am not confrontational by nature and this takes a lot out of me.I just wish they would learn to read code and pay attention to commas...they do matter.


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## Latestarter

it is amazing isn't it? Power hungry seems to strike 99% of any/all govt functionaries... I don't know if it's a disease that festers down from the top or is just a function of the position... Either way, it is very annoying and counter productive to just about everything.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> The floor is done in the milk house part of the trailer and I am putting up wall covering today and for the rest of the week. Taking it slow in this heat. I am having a discussion with my inspector regarding equipment placement. I told her that the milk pump and air separator were going in the milkbarn and this is what I get back from her. (Her bolding of text).
> 
> Here is what CCR 480.5(x) says,
> (x) Milk pumps, pipelines, and air separators which are a part of an enclosed pipeline system may be installed in the passageway* or an area approved by the Director,* in the milking barn, provided, that all of the equipment is protected from contamination at all times. Plate type or internal tubular coolers may be installed in the milkhouse or passageway.
> 
> So she wants a site visit before I install the equipment but the equipment is wall mounted and backing has been installed already in the milk barn. I asked her if *in the milking barn, provided, that all of the equipment is protected from contamination at all times,* does not apply to me for some reason. Waiting for a reply.
> 
> If the job of the CA Dept of Ag is to make me crazy they are performing their job well. It there job is to wear me down so I will quit pursuing this endeavor they are failing. But here goes round two and it is getting old. I am not confrontational by nature and this takes a lot out of me.I just wish they would learn to read code and pay attention to commas...they do matter.



I think she is a little sore over you going over her head still and doesnt really know how to read code it seems.

On a separate note....are you planning to have AC in the trailers or do you have some other idea for keeping it cool at least in the cheese making one?


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## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> I just wish they would learn to read code and pay attention to commas...they do matter.



They matter indeed.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/25/business/worldbusiness/25comma.html?_r=0



http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle...usion-allscripts-lawsuit-turns-on-use-of.html


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## babsbag

OneFineAcre said:


> They matter indeed.



I never knew things actually went to court over a comma. My example was always much more simple. 

Let's just say that I am taking bread to a party. I write, "I am bringing zucchini, banana, cranberry and poppy seed bread". 

Am I bringing three loaves of bread or four? Our grammar classes (if you can call them that) are telling students that the last comma in a string like my example is not needed; it is implied.  I beg to differ.  One more example of laziness in writing.


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## babsbag

misfitmorgan said:


> On a separate note....are you planning to have AC in the trailers or do you have some other idea for keeping it cool at least in the cheese making one?



I have an AC in the processing trailer. I am hoping that I will be milking in the early morning hours and won't need AC in the milking barn/milk house.


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## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> I never knew things actually went to court over a comma. My example was always much more simple.
> 
> Let's just say that I am taking bread to a party. I write, "I am bringing zucchini, banana, cranberry and poppy seed bread".
> 
> Am I bringing three loaves of bread or four? Our grammar classes (if you can call them that) are telling students that the last comma in a string like my example is not needed; it is implied.  I beg to differ.  One more example of laziness in writing.



The Oxford comma


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## babsbag

I didn't know it has a name until I read that second article you posted a link to. I use the Oxford comma all of the time, no guessing or assuming in my world. I tend to read things very literally too so it probably goes hand in hand.


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## Mike CHS

All of this detail kind of points at California not wanting small farm dairies. That is too bad.


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## babsbag

It certainly can seem that way. When I first started pursuing this they were all smiles and roses and every question I asked was answered with "yes" we can work that out. I asked about using trailers, now they are balking at that. I asked about a bathroom that is required and that I had a problem as the dairy is located below our septic tank so they suggested using an RV; now they are complaining about that and it was their idea. I am very thorough when it comes to asking questions and following through with research so I find this very maddening and tiring. 

On another note...I have been eyeing 8 acres next to us for a few years. The land went up for sale after the mobile home and its residents were lost in a fire. The brother that inherited the land then died and left the land to a former boss. Anyways it was a mixed up will and it has been for sell for over a year. At one point the current owner was going to carry papers for us and then a realtor convinced him to raise the price and told me that is was just too complicated and that I should walk away...so I did. 

A neighbor has taken over half of the land with his horses and claims that it is his, but we know that it isn't. Every time I drive by the land I think "I need to own this"; and I drive by it daily so I think that a lot. The thing is, I don't have the money and I can't get financing for it until the dairy is up and running for at least a year and two would be better.  The asking price is a little over the top and half of the land is in a seasonal stream bed across the road. But the stream is ok with me if we can agree on a price as I would just turn the stream area into bee forage. (I raise bees too). The owner doesn't live here, he doesn't know what he has or doesn't have and the realtor has really led him astray as far as pricing. 

The land is perfect for me. It is downhill from my land which would allow me a place to discharge the dairy wash water to and to irrigate at the same time. It is mostly level and mine is NOT so level land would be awesome. It has a lot of trees and brush that my goats would make short work of and open pasture. It would really be a perfect addition to our land, plus it would insure that I have never have neighbors that complain about the goats and the LGDs.  There is about 4 acres that is very usable and 4 acres in the stream bed across the road. 

But the really good news...he said that he would consider leasing it to me with an option to buy in two years. We are going to talk more tomorrow. So now to figure out a price and a monthly payment. I would have it surveyed to get rid of the horse owner once and for all and two of the corners are already marked as they are my corners as well. The property is mostly fenced and we would finish the rest and also tear down an old building that is literally falling apart. There is a well on the land but the controller has been stolen and a company says that it needs a new pump, even though it was in use when the fire happened. I don't always believe everything these companies say, the well may be fine. The county won't let us have power back on the land until we take out a building permit which we will never do, but we have a generator all ready to run that well.

I have no idea what to offer for a monthly lease and no idea what to offer for a purchase price down the road. Does my monthly payment go towards the purchase? Who pays the taxes? Who insures it? So many questions. 

It is exciting to think about...I will update as I know more.


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> It certainly can seem that way. When I first started pursuing this they were all smiles and roses and every question I asked was answered with "yes" we can work that out. I asked about using trailers, now they are balking at that. I asked about a bathroom that is required and that I had a problem as the dairy is located below our septic tank so they suggested using an RV; now they are complaining about that and it was their idea. I am very thorough when it comes to asking questions and following through with research so I find this very maddening and tiring.
> 
> On another note...I have been eyeing 8 acres next to us for a few years. The land went up for sale after the mobile home and its residents were lost in a fire. The brother that inherited the land then died and left the land to a former boss. Anyways it was a mixed up will and it has been for sell for over a year. At one point the current owner was going to carry papers for us and then a realtor convinced him to raise the price and told me that is was just too complicated and that I should walk away...so I did.
> 
> A neighbor has taken over half of the land with his horses and claims that it is his, but we know that it isn't. Every time I drive by the land I think "I need to own this"; and I drive by it daily so I think that a lot. The thing is, I don't have the money and I can't get financing for it until the dairy is up and running for at least a year and two would be better.  The asking price is a little over the top and half of the land is in a seasonal stream bed across the road. But the stream is ok with me if we can agree on a price as I would just turn the stream area into bee forage. (I raise bees too). The owner doesn't live here, he doesn't know what he has or doesn't have and the realtor has really led him astray as far as pricing.
> 
> The land is perfect for me. It is downhill from my land which would allow me a place to discharge the dairy wash water to and to irrigate at the same time. It is mostly level and mine is NOT so level land would be awesome. It has a lot of trees and brush that my goats would make short work of and open pasture. It would really be a perfect addition to our land, plus it would insure that I have never have neighbors that complain about the goats and the LGDs.  There is about 4 acres that is very usable and 4 acres in the stream bed across the road.
> 
> But the really good news...he said that he would consider leasing it to me with an option to buy in two years. We are going to talk more tomorrow. So now to figure out a price and a monthly payment. I would have it surveyed to get rid of the horse owner once and for all and two of the corners are already marked as they are my corners as well. The property is mostly fenced and we would finish the rest and also tear down an old building that is literally falling apart. There is a well on the land but the controller has been stolen and a company says that it needs a new pump, even though it was in use when the fire happened. I don't always believe everything these companies say, the well may be fine. The county won't let us have power back on the land until we take out a building permit which we will never do, but we have a generator all ready to run that well.
> 
> I have no idea what to offer for a monthly lease and no idea what to offer for a purchase price down the road. Does my monthly payment go towards the purchase? Who pays the taxes? Who insures it? So many questions.
> 
> It is exciting to think about...I will update as I know more.



On our farm lease we pay property taxes, insure the place and pay $100/month lease payment...when we are ready to pay the owner is paying our closing costs. So our payments go towards closing costs rather then money off but $100/month is really low even for here.
Typical bare land lease here is $35-55 per acre per year and/or pay property taxes. So if you were doing 10 acres with property tax and rent payment it would be approx $850-1050/yr.
From the sounds of this owner though i would assume they would want far more per month and yeah i would definitely make sure at least the cash money he gets would go towards closing costs and/or money off the loan. If its like $500/month for rent over 2yrs thats $12,000.

Also...before drawing up the contract you can request to see a copy of the property taxes so that will give you an idea of what the "true price" should be, just take the value on the tax paper and double it. ATM i cant remember what its called but up here most real estate companies use that as a base price, then add on for upgrades or luxury stuff.


----------



## Ferguson K

It seems like the closer you get, the more strictly they apply the rules.


----------



## babsbag

Ferguson K said:


> It seems like the closer you get, the more strictly they apply the rules.



Or apply rules that are misinterpreted. But you are right and I have heard this about them from other people, I just didn't want to believe it. I am into this for a large chunk of change and a USDA loan, I can't quit now. So now it is my job to build a dairy and read code and make sure it is applied correctly. I should get paid for that. 

@misfitmorgan I am not sure what he wants. He didn't want this land or expect this land in the first place. He was left as the beneficiary and the executor of a will from a former employee. The land had been in escrow at one point and then the brother of the fire victim died and sent the land back into probate...that was about 3 years ago. He bought out the victim's daughter's share so he could basically sell it to me and carry papers, then his realtor lost her mind and talked him into cleaning the land and raising the price. I wanted to clean the land as we needed the "sweat equity" but they convinced him that he could get more if he cleaned it up. He doesn't live here, has only seen the property once many many many years ago and was letting a crazy realtor guide him.

He is a farmer himself, owns many large nut orchards in our Central Valley, which is nice as he understands the economics of farming. I like your prices and have no idea what he will expect. I know that the value of the land on the tax roll is based on what it last sold for which was like a century ago so not much can be gleaned from that.  That piece of land was part of the original ranch in my area, 100's of acres that was eventually subdivided and the owners stayed on that piece. 

I wouldn't mind paying the taxes and insurance if I was getting it for a decent lease price but if I am paying 500.00 a month (I can't) then I would hope he would pay those items. We will see. I want this land but I have to be smart.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Or apply rules that are misinterpreted. But you are right and I have heard this about them from other people, I just didn't want to believe it. I am into this for a large chunk of change and a USDA loan, I can't quit now. So now it is my job to build a dairy and read code and make sure it is applied correctly. I should get paid for that.
> 
> @misfitmorgan I am not sure what he wants. He didn't want this land or expect this land in the first place. He was left as the beneficiary and the executor of a will from a former employee. The land had been in escrow at one point and then the brother of the fire victim died and sent the land back into probate...that was about 3 years ago. He bought out the victim's daughter's share so he could basically sell it to me and carry papers, then his realtor lost her mind and talked him into cleaning the land and raising the price. I wanted to clean the land as we needed the "sweat equity" but they convinced him that he could get more if he cleaned it up. He doesn't live here, has only seen the property once many many many years ago and was letting a crazy realtor guide him.
> 
> He is a farmer himself, owns many large nut orchards in our Central Valley, which is nice as he understands the economics of farming. I like your prices and have no idea what he will expect. I know that the value of the land on the tax roll is based on what it last sold for which was like a century ago so not much can be gleaned from that.  That piece of land was part of the original ranch in my area, 100's of acres that was eventually subdivided and the owners stayed on that piece.
> 
> I wouldn't mind paying the taxes and insurance if I was getting it for a decent lease price but if I am paying 500.00 a month (I can't) then I would hope he would pay those items. We will see. I want this land but I have to be smart.



oh i misunderstood this is the boss guy that has it now i thought the only guy had it still.

Here it goes on sale price and then appreciates or depreciates depending on the whats on the property and it condition, whats built afterwards, etc. 

Hopefully you guys can agree on a reasonably price for buying and lease. I know here atm land is roughly 1k per acre to buy so pretty cheap, you can find it as low as $500/acre and as high as 2k/acre though.


----------



## babsbag

Well in CA the land of all high prices it is closer to 8,000 an acre for small parcels; of course that price per acre drops when you start buy pieces 20 acres +.  I am going to get some pictures for him as he lives 6 hours away. I want him to see the junk that is left on the land. I think the realtor really didn't represent his interests well on the cleanup job.

There is an old shack, falling down, windows fell out, roof leaks etc. It is about 20x20. They left it on the land and when I asked why he told me that they told him that someone could come in and remodel it and save on building permit fees.  I tried really hard not to laugh. It has no plumbing, the floor is falling in, and it was never permitted to start with. The county would never let it be considered a house to remodel. 

They also left the frame work to a lean-to shed that did collapse when the neighbor stole all the tin roofing on it after the fire. Underneath that mess is years and years worth of household garbage in bags.  Fortunately I have a tractor and a dump trailer. 

This should be an interesting discussion.


----------



## Latestarter

wow... wish you the best.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Well in CA the land of all high prices it is closer to 8,000 an acre for small parcels; of course that price per acre drops when you start buy pieces 20 acres +.  I am going to get some pictures for him as he lives 6 hours away. I want him to see the junk that is left on the land. I think the realtor really didn't represent his interests well on the cleanup job.
> 
> There is an old shack, falling down, windows fell out, roof leaks etc. It is about 20x20. They left it on the land and when I asked why he told me that they told him that someone could come in and remodel it and save on building permit fees.  I tried really hard not to laugh. It has no plumbing, the floor is falling in, and it was never permitted to start with. The county would never let it be considered a house to remodel.
> 
> They also left the frame work to a lean-to shed that did collapse when the neighbor stole all the tin roofing on it after the fire. Underneath that mess is years and years worth of household garbage in bags.  Fortunately I have a tractor and a dump trailer.
> 
> This should be an interesting discussion.



Same here the bigger the parcel the lower the price per acre until you get over 100acres ten it goes up cause it hard to find single parcels that large. Pretty much 20-100 acres your paying $250-500 per acre which is a good deal...market is down here still atm. "Normal" prices here are $2-2,500/acre higher side if its got good woods or tillable.

Good luck with that convo hopefully the pictures get him to realize the realtor is a crackpot.


----------



## babsbag

misfitmorgan said:


> oh i misunderstood this is the boss guy that has it now i thought the only guy had it still.



No, not the boss guy, it is still the local field inspector. But I have made it a habit to cc the boss on all emails that I send to her. I still have the "discrimination card up my sleeve" and would use it with the director  but I have never in my life resorted to that or felt particularly picked on for being a woman so that is a last resort. But I am holding it in reserve for the final if needed. Trust me...this dairy will get licensed. Like the quote from the movie "Tombstone"..."tell 'em I'm coming and I'm bringing hell with me."


----------



## Mike CHS

I know a lot of people that would have given up over what the bureaucrats are doing (or trying to do) to you.  You may never know their true motivation but it would be nice to know at some point.


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## babsbag

I want to believe that it is just a case of "I have the power, therefore I can". But sometimes it is hard not to believe that there isn't another agenda.


----------



## babsbag

The milking barn trailer is actually two rooms, the milking barn and the milk house. I have the epoxy floor and the waterproof walls done in the milk house.  

I will now be working on finishing the insulation and plywood sheathing in the milking barn part of the trailer (most of it is done) and then do the floor. This floor will be a little different as it will slope to a trench drain along one end instead of the drain in the middle of the room. A new learning curve and not entirely sure how I will do the trench drain; it will be a design as I go project. Of course the temperature is supposed to go UP this weekend and next week and beyond so it will be slow going. 

And in between all of the construction I will be canning tomatoes, making pickles, canning peaches, making soap, and of course taking care of the goats. It never ends. Good thing I don't have a life.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> Good thing I don't have a life.


 
Ain't that the truth, lol!   (except I kinda love it that way!)


----------



## Ferguson K

That's awesome!


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## MrsKuhn

Oh come on babs, 110 is totally out side work doable  

Sounds like you are coming right along, and you are doing side things as well.. you are like super woman  Teach me thy ways..  Oh wait.... you are..  I will never be as good as you though. you are seriously one amazing woman!  

Stay hydrated and somewhat cool!


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## babsbag

@MrsKuhn  thanks for the compliment but I have had a few more years to perfect my workaholic skills. Plus my kids are grown and gone and DH is gone all week so it is just me to work as I please. Much easier in a lot of ways. My parents were both a lot like me when it comes to projects, but the thing is I inherited my dad's ability to build things and my mom's ability to do "mom things", like canning. So now I have to do it all.   Unfortunately my DH does not have my weekend warrior work attitude. 

I'll work in the dairy in the morning, then come in a can tomatoes and hopefully pickles in the heat of the day. And then milk at night. I only milk once a day and I am about to dry off a bunch of does too. The dairy will not be done this year, the bottle babies are almost weaned so I don't need 20 goats in milk.


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## babsbag

Today I finished putting in the sloped plywood floor and drain in the milking parlor. Next is the coving around the edge and then the epoxy coating. 

I needed the drain to slope to one end but I wanted the floor to be sloped towards the drain and not towards the side wall as well so it took some engineering. I cut two 2x6 in a wedge and placed them under the drain so it would slope. 






Then I cut 2x6's to support the plywood in varying heights so the plywood floor would slope towards the drain. By code it had to slope 1.5" in 10'. 










Then I covered it with 1" plywood. I marked where the plywood was going to hit the top edge of the drain and cut the drain so the plywood overhangs the edge of the drain just a tad. The drain will be coated with epoxy as well as caulked so it should be  water tight. This was a design as I go project but I was very happy with the outcome. The milking  stands will be placed directly over the drain so it should  be easy cleaning. I am looking forward to the epoxy part, probably on Tuesday or Wednesday.


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## frustratedearthmother

Coming right along!  You do good work!


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## Latestarter

Wow, looks great!


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## Hens and Roos

Looking good


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## babsbag

I don't know if there has ever been a project that I wanted done as much as this one. I see the light at the end of that proverbial tunnel but also many many little details that still need to be addressed. My goal is to be done by March which seems a long ways off until I think about that fact that March 2016 seemed like only yesterday...it goes by so fast. Come Sept. I need to change focus and get a front put on the barn. I lived without it last year for only a few months and it could have been very miserable with the right storm. We usually get our first rains the end of Oct. so I need to get that done and then go back to work on the dairy. Also trying to figure out when to dig trenches for water, power, and gas...do it now and watch it fill up with water or possibly dig it in the mud. Neither is a good choice.


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## Southern by choice

from- 
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/this-craigs-list-ad-is-too-funny.34297/page-4#post-441885

I think often many who are starting out with goats think the smaller ones are easier and/or friendlier.

We have found that our Lamanchas are truly the most loving. 
The smaller goat may be a little easier to handle but I don't think they necessarily make the best pets.  LOL but for blood draws etc BIG GOATS are easier hands down! LOL Small goats eat less and need less land. Nigies are really hardy though.

anyway- I see many at age 5-6 moved on to other homes. Usually great homes too! They tend to go to people that just need or want 1 dairy goat. They will often get 1 dairy goat and a wether or get a bred older doe and keep one of the kids. 

It's nice especially for those "brat" goats, or persnickity goats that do better in a 2 goat environment.


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## babsbag

I thought I had moved this ... Thanks @Southern by choice


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## babsbag

So if you  were buying a family milker what would you consider the oldest age to be for buying one?


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## Hens and Roos

babsbag said:


> So if you  were buying a family milker what would you consider the oldest age to be for buying one?



our oldest doe was 4 years when we bought her, I guess it would depend on what the family is looking for


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## NH homesteader

I had a goat who was great when I had two of them...  Then I added more goats and holy cow miserable attitude! Emphasis on "had",  they were shipped off to a home with one other goat and are fine now! 

I personally wouldn't buy a goat that is past 3, but I am not what one would call  "normal" haha.  I see a lot of 6 year old goats being sold near me.  Anything older than that and it usually states they're best as pets.


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## Southern by choice

I think 6 or 7 would be a good age. Aging out for a dairy but plenty of life still in them.



NH homesteader said:


> I personally wouldn't buy a goat that is past 3


One of our best does and most wonderful was just about to turn 5 when we got her. We chose her OVER her young 2 year old daughters.  Her production is still great at 7. No issues. She WILL live her life out here. 
I think 3 and 4 year olds actually milk fantastic.


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## NH homesteader

No sorry I didn't mean you shouldn't. I just would buy a younger doe to have more years of milking, that's all.


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## babsbag

My goal is no more than 30 goats and I own 41 right now and 6 of those are bucks.  I have 3 that will never leave and never be milked again. So that leaves me 32 goats to squeeze 25 gallons of milk out of and 10 of those are 2016 babies so that leaves 22 for that 25 gallons. Now while that is entirely possible I am not holding my breath and I just can't legally keep more goats; I am already over the limit. The majority of my herd is 2012 and younger but I do have a few old girls. The problem is that a first freshener just can't replace a 5 year old when it comes to volume so I need to keep all the replacement does for a year or maybe two before their truly earn their place in the dairy string. A lot of juggling and I need more land.


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## NH homesteader

Sorry if you've already explained it,  but what's the legal issue with owning more goats? 

What breed(s)  do you have? That's a lot of goats! Haha!


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## Mike CHS

I was wondering about the herd size also.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

babsbag said:


> My goal is no more than 30 goats and I own 41 right now and 6 of those are bucks.  I have 3 that will never leave and never be milked again. So that leaves me 32 goats to squeeze 25 gallons of milk out of and 10 of those are 2016 babies so that leaves 22 for that 25 gallons. Now while that is entirely possible I am not holding my breath and I just can't legally keep more goats; I am already over the limit. The majority of my herd is 2012 and younger but I do have a few old girls. The problem is that a first freshener just can't replace a 5 year old when it comes to volume so I need to keep all the replacement does for a year or maybe two before their truly earn their place in the dairy string. A lot of juggling and I need more land.


Do you have a website?


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## babsbag

We have 5 acres and our county zoning is 3 goats per 1/2 acre. No one has ever looked or asked but I don't want to give them a reason to. I am willing to push it during kidding season but the rest of the year I need to try and stay at 30. Also, the more I own, the more I feed. $$$ 

My goal is 25 gallons of milk per day, but I would be happy with 20. I have some nice goats but none of them have ever been pushed in production so we will see what they can do long term. I also hope to milk once a day as I have a life...even if that "life" is marketing my products. 

I own primarily Aplines. I have 10 LaManchas and one Togg. I also have mini Alpines and now Nigi bucks to make the mini Alpines.  It will be two years before I really know what the minis can do so they are a work in progress. 

I have thought of trying to find people that would like to raise and milk my first fresheners for the first year but it would have to be just the right place and the right people. But it would give them milk and get them off of my land.


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## babsbag

Green Acres Farm said:


> Do you have a website?



I have one in the works, meaning I have bought the domain name. I also have a facebook page but I don't put any updates on it. I'm horrible about that stuff.


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## NH homesteader

Very cool.  I'll be interested to hear about the mini alpines as mine are so young I haven't seen what they can do yet! 

My town doesn't know or care how many goats I have.  Or if I have goats at all.  We are lucky.


----------



## babsbag

welcome to CA   I am in the country, zoned limited AG, but they limit how many animals I can own. I will never understand this when living in the country, city limits...maybe. When I did live in the city I was allowed the typical house pets and chickens. I didn't own any chickens at the time but I was allowed three dogs, three cats, three birds...basically 3 of any species. Including fish. WHAT ????  They did change that one. I had 8 cats, 3 dogs, 6 birds, 4 rats, 1 turtle, and many many fish. I don't follow rules very well. The cats, birds, and rats all lived inside so if I wanted more than three that was my business, not theirs. I hate stupid laws. Last I looked I was paying the mortgage and taxes, not the gov't.


----------



## Mike CHS

You know if you have too many bucks you can probably get SBC to take some off your hands.  She never has too many.


----------



## NH homesteader

OK that's bizarre! Although perhaps your pet fish are disrupting the neighborhood. In that case...


----------



## OneFineAcre

Unrelated but @babsbag 
We had our club meeting Sun and our guest speakers were from the Goat Lady Dairy
Didn't you visit them ?
They are actually in the process of selling out the operation
Happy story two of their long time employees are buying the operation
Learned the whole history
@Goat Whisperer 
They donated the club a semen tank
We are going to make sure it holds nitrogen and are going to have a silent auction online for it


----------



## babsbag

I did visit them. They were really not doing much dairy goat wise anymore, they were getting their milk trucked in and focusing on the cheese. Beautiful facility though and that is neat that they sold to workers. 

Buffalo Creek Dairy was really the one that convinced me that I can do this. Also Pholia Farms in OR...they are kinda my role models. Celebrity was too big for me, and Ripshin was no longer making cheese but she was very helpful showing me her facility and the plans that her son drew for them.  I gleaned bits and pieces from all of the dairies I visited that week. Also went to one in VA but for the life of me can't remember the name. They were no longer making cheese either and their codes were a little more lax than NC or CA.


----------



## babsbag

It is @Southern by choice and @Goat Whisperer fault that I own so many to begin with. And now I am thinking a borrowing a couple of Nubians to try and get Southern a mini Nubian buckling.   As a matter of fact if Southern had just told me I was crazy to build a dairy at 56 years old I wouldn't even be in this predicament. But no...she had to tell me it was a GREAT idea, and I believed her.


----------



## NH homesteader

Haha! Well kudos to you for pursuing it.  It just sounds exhausting to me! Then again,  I am drowning in non goat related things so I hardly have time to even consider something like that.  

So the moral of the story is...  Never ask anyone on this site if you should get more goats!


----------



## Southern by choice

babsbag said:


> It is @Southern by choice and @Goat Whisperer fault that I own so many to begin with. And now I am thinking a borrowing a couple of Nubians to try and get Southern a mini Nubian buckling.   As a matter of fact if Southern had just told me I was crazy to build a dairy at 56 years old I wouldn't even be in this predicament. But no...she had to tell me it was a GREAT idea, and I believed her.


----------



## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> I did visit them. They were really not doing much dairy goat wise anymore, they were getting their milk trucked in and focusing on the cheese. Beautiful facility though and that is neat that they sold to workers.
> 
> Buffalo Creek Dairy was really the one that convinced me that I can do this. Also Pholia Farms in OR...they are kinda my role models. Celebrity was too big for me, and Ripshin was no longer making cheese but she was very helpful showing me her facility and the plans that her son drew for them.  I gleaned bits and pieces from all of the dairies I visited that week. Also went to one in VA but for the life of me can't remember the name. They were no longer making cheese either and their codes were a little more lax than NC or CA.


They don't milk any goats any more
The own 300 but they are all
Contracted out to another farm
They buy all the milk from several other dairies
And the majority of their cheese is made from frozen curd
Apparently you can still be considered an artisan cheese maker when you truck in frozen curd
Funny thing is they are considered a large small operation
Like jumbo shrimp I guess


----------



## babsbag

They can make artisan cheese but not farmstead cheese. For me it is really about the goats. In the long run if I could find someone to make the cheese I would be quite happy taking care of the goats and doing the business stuff.  Maybe that day will come.


----------



## Southern by choice

@babsbag 

This was on FB had to share this with you! Based on our conversation the other day!  




 
_We started a dairy farm from nothing but a barn that had 50 year old stanchions and nothing else. Every day is a battle but for some reason we press on hoping it will be worth it? ☮❤️_
_
 _


----------



## babsbag

@Southern by choice ...it is still all your fault. You should have stopped me.   

And I have a leaky faucet to fix tomorrow; really hoping it doesn't end up looking like this picture.


----------



## babsbag

I will be putting an offer on the 8 acres next door to us this week, maybe even tomorrow. I was going to try and lease it, but it is in probate so can't do that.  I am offering 30,000 less than asking and it will be contingent upon financing. Here we go.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Good luck!


----------



## babsbag

Well it won't be the price I wanted but I might still get it. The guy that owns it inherited half of it and he bought out the other heir. He was really led astray by a money hungry realtor that talked him into cleaning up the land, and pricing it way above market. He isn't from this area at all, he had never even seen the land until last week so he took her advice and he now has more invested in the property than what I wanted to offer. But I want this land so I will offer more and if it doesn't appraise we will go from there. I am buying it as a farm through the USDA so there are still a lot of hoops to jump through but the formal offer should go in this week.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Hope it all works out!


----------



## Mini Horses

Question ---  DID  SBC tell you this was a good idea???


----------



## OneFineAcre

Good luck on the land.


----------



## babsbag

Mini Horses said:


> Question --- DID SBC tell you this was a good idea???



No I think I can blame myself for this one.


----------



## Southern by choice

Mini Horses said:


> Question ---  DID  SBC tell you this was a good idea???



Hey... wait .... what do I have to do with this?
 I am innocent.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Best of luck on getting the extra land!


----------



## babsbag

Southern by choice said:


> Hey... wait .... what do I have to do with this?
> I am innocent.



You are never innocent and after rethinking this if it wasn't for the dairy I wouldn't own so many goats and wouldn't need the land, so yes, it must be your fault...it surely isn't mine.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Baymule

I hope it works out on the extra land!


----------



## babsbag

The offer on the land has been accepted so now I have to pursue the USDA FSA loan.  Wish me luck.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Luck!!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Good luck


----------



## Mike CHS

I'll wish you good luck but from what I have seen so far, you make your own.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Good luck


----------



## Baymule

You can do this. Make it happen.


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> You are never innocent and after rethinking this if it wasn't for the dairy I wouldn't own so many goats and wouldn't need the land, so yes, it must be your fault...it surely isn't mine.




Imagine that


----------



## Mini Horses

Will certainly take the pinch out of number of goats you can have -- and we ALL need more goats!!   With the size herd of milking does you will need for the dairy, kidding to make milk, experimental does for improved milk, and all the other things we can help you list -- it's just a time to do this!!

Hoping all works out for you.


----------



## babsbag

For the loan for the land they are asking for a statement regarding Farm Transition and Estate Planning. I have nothing on this. My kids aren't the least bit interested in being a goat farmer and I have no business partner. I have NO idea how to address this.


----------



## Latestarter

Yeah... they're worried about repayment of the loan of course. Still pretty silly that they are expecting you to die and want the estate planning info. Personally, I'd tell them it's none of their business and not pertinent to your repaying the loan.


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## babsbag

My plan is to live forever, do you think that will appease them?


----------



## Latestarter

Don't we all plan that? Somehow I doubt anything but exactly what they desire will "please" or appease them, but sometimes that's just not the right or best thing to do.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Sometimes to "appease" the estate planning part or even used for collateral, you can use a life insurance policy.  With a term life insurance policy you, the business owner, are the insured person and can also be the owner of the policy. You pay the premium for the policy. The bank or lending institution is the primary beneficiary while the loan is outstanding.

If you pursue this type of life insurance, you’ll need to sign a loan collateral assignment form to assign the bank as the recipient of the policy’s death benefit as long as the loan is in effect. Usually the bank will work with the insurance company to coordinate the execution of the form.

If the loan principal amount is lower than the policy’s death benefit at the time that a payout is made, your secondary beneficiary (for example, spouse or kids) will receive the difference after the primary beneficiary (the lender) receives its payout.

This is also a good way to get a loan for a startup business if you have no physical assets.

Just a thought...


----------



## babsbag

That's a really good idea and will keep that in mind, thanks.

They haven't said what they are looking for exactly, they just asked for a "statement" regarding Farm Transition and Estate Planning.  Basically I told them that we have retirement accounts from other jobs and we hope to pass the management and operation of the dairy onto another person when we retire and when we die it will be sold as my children are not interested in being goat farmers.  I haven't heard anymore from them regarding the statement. It may be just a formality and they wouldn't care what I wrote, even if it was "I'm leaving it all to the goats and at that time it will be 'employee' owned"... LOL


----------



## OneFineAcre

Latestarter said:


> Yeah... they're worried about repayment of the loan of course. Still pretty silly that they are expecting you to die and want the estate planning info. Personally, I'd tell them it's none of their business and not pertinent to your repaying the loan.


I don't think that will work


----------



## OneFineAcre

HomeOnTheRange said:


> Sometimes to "appease" the estate planning part or even used for collateral, you can use a life insurance policy.  With a term life insurance policy you, the business owner, are the insured person and can also be the owner of the policy. You pay the premium for the policy. The bank or lending institution is the primary beneficiary while the loan is outstanding.
> 
> If you pursue this type of life insurance, you’ll need to sign a loan collateral assignment form to assign the bank as the recipient of the policy’s death benefit as long as the loan is in effect. Usually the bank will work with the insurance company to coordinate the execution of the form.
> 
> If the loan principal amount is lower than the policy’s death benefit at the time that a payout is made, your secondary beneficiary (for example, spouse or kids) will receive the difference after the primary beneficiary (the lender) receives its payout.
> 
> This is also a good way to get a loan for a startup business if you have no physical assets.
> 
> Just a thought...



That would probably work


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> "I'm leaving it all to the goats and at that time it will be 'employee' owned"...



   I love it!!   Of course, MY girls think that is already the case with my farm.


----------



## babsbag

Kidding season this year will be a nightmare. So far I have 24 does potentially bred with 9 more to go. Four of those 9 may be bred already. They are taking F O R E V E R.

My kidding season should start around March 19 and I have 1 or 2 does due to kid about EVERY OTHER DAY for a MONTH. Not the way I had it planned. I won't even have time to clean kidding pens between does at this rate. And I want to pull kids this year. I would have preferred 6 does at a time, give me a week off and then another 6. Why can't they just cooperate?


----------



## Mini Horses

I suspect that you did NOT make the new schedule clear at the last "EMPLOYEE" meeting.      Geesh.....maybe offer a bonus if they move a day or two in either direction to consolidate for you.   

Until then


----------



## NH homesteader




----------



## samssimonsays

Cooperate?  you're funny! I was hoping for two March and two April.... Didn't happen either. Grrr.....


----------



## babsbag

Last year they were much better. Not sure what happened this year. Next year each buck will have their own pen and I will stick the doe in their pen. This year I have had to catch a buck and put him in a temporary pen with the doe. I have had a few mis-breedings because of this system when bucks crowd the gate. So much easier when I only bred Alpines.


----------



## Baymule

With all that you have been doing, it stands to reason that the goats took full advantage of the situation. That just goes to show you who's really in charge---and it ain't you!


----------



## Ferguson K

I think they will enforce doe code at full speed and you only THINK it will be every other day. You'll have six or seven at the same time and you'll be running around like a chicken with your head cut off.



Something like that.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Good luck!!


----------



## babsbag

I will know next Wednesday if four of my holdout does are bred. One other I didn't even test, she is so far gone there was no need...kidding will be around Jan 14...UGH!!!!

Everyday is a good day if I learn something new. Today I learned a lot of new things.
1. My Bobcat with the trencher on likes to try and stand on her nose and she gets stuck easily when the tracks are only touching on the front 6" or so.
2. Don't try to cross the trench the bobcat just dug... She can fall in the trench ...twice.
3. My John Deere can pull the bobcat out of the trench.
4. 100' of 2" PVC conduit is heavy
5. 100 of 1-3 aluminum wire is heavier
6. 100' of conduit AND 100' of wire is REALLY heavy and is no job for most women...I'm obviously not most women. 

Trench is dug, conduit and wire are in place and I am as sore as heck.
IT IS SNOWING.


----------



## Latestarter

Snowing?   Glad you got so much accomplished, wondering where the video is to document #1-#3   Now it's time to relax a bit and calm sore muscles. I recommend a nice glass of wine or medical weed... The latter would probably be more enjoyable (unless you're trying to lose weight).


----------



## babsbag

I thought about taking a picture of the predicament I had managed to get into but I was too busy trying to extricate her and get the project done before it started raining, which is now snowing. 

I am not a medical weed kind of girl but hot chocolate with Baileys suits me just fine.  No way to loose weight drinking that stuff. The spa would feel good but mine is in retirement. I need a new cover, it smells musty, no amount of cleaning will remove the odor and it makes the water smell too. BLAH. Someday.


----------



## Southern by choice

Oh gosh that is crazy! You poor thing!


----------



## Baymule

No, you are not most women. You are an outstanding woman! Awesome job!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Wow that's quite the day you had. Most outside projects for us are shut down until spring now that the ground has started to freeze up.


----------



## babsbag

Thanks for the compliment @Baymule but anyone that lives in the COLD is an awesome woman.  Freezing ground. Nope, no way, not me, not gonna happen. My hat's off to you. 



misfitmorgan said:


> Wow that's quite the day you had. Most outside projects for us are shut down until spring now that the ground has started to freeze up.


----------



## NH homesteader

We are frozen and shut down from outside projects too.  I don't know,  I think the heat is worse than the cold.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Thanks for the compliment @Baymule but anyone that lives in the COLD is an awesome woman.  Freezing ground. Nope, no way, not me, not gonna happen. My hat's off to you.





NH homesteader said:


> We are frozen and shut down from outside projects too.  I don't know,  I think the heat is worse than the cold.



i hate the cold lol....but i whine about the heat too. I need a place i can live that is just temperate all year round like 50-80F would be great.


----------



## samssimonsays

We are all shut down on outside projects for the year here too. Sigh. Now we can catch up on inside projects LOL. 

I can't imagine doing all that alone. You are my hero!


----------



## babsbag

90% of what get does around here I do alone. DH is gone all week and he isn't the quickest at getting started on projects. If I want it done usually I do it. He does all of the finish electrical and the rough framing, he will help with things like moving equipment with the tractor, he is much better at securing a load than I am.  He cooks on the weekends but most of the rest is mine, all mine.  *SIGH*


----------



## babsbag

The loan for the property has been approved and they are waiting on funding. Since Congress passed the Continuing Resolution the Gov't. is back in business and the money should be available soon.  Then they have to order the appraisal which could take another 6 weeks. I wish they would hurry, we would like to plant the pasture and it is getting way to late for that. 

The future property fronts the main road into the area I live in. It isn't busy as there are only 6 houses that use it but in a way that is worse as "undesirables" can be lurking about and no one would notice. There is a crazy woman that thinks she owns this land. Her mother was the late owner's boyfriend about 40 years ago and she thinks that this means she has rights to squat on the property. She has been kicked off before and she has been in jail for other unrelated things, mostly theft (but 2 of her boyfriends have ended up dead). Well she must have been released from jail as she is back. When we get the property first on the list is fencing and a hot wire. DH found an $$$ device that will send a text to me if the hot wire has been cut. I think we may have to invest in that. I am really concerned about someone doing harm to the future animals, and not just her. There are a lot of drugged out crazies around here always looking for a way to make a buck...rustling would fit the bill nicely. 

I am looking for another LGD. The one I thought I might get in OR was sold but she has a few more. Hoping to work out a trade with her on some future kids. Goats I have, money I don't...is that because I own goats? Hmmm


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> The loan for the property has been approved and they are waiting on funding. Since Congress passed the Continuing Resolution the Gov't. is back in business and the money should be available soon.  Then they have to order the appraisal which could take another 6 weeks. I wish they would hurry, we would like to plant the pasture and it is getting way to late for that.
> 
> The future property fronts the main road into the area I live in. It isn't busy as there are only 6 houses that use it but in a way that is worse as "undesirables" can be lurking about and no one would notice. There is a crazy woman that thinks she owns this land. Her mother was the late owner's boyfriend about 40 years ago and she thinks that this means she has rights to squat on the property. She has been kicked off before and she has been in jail for other unrelated things, mostly theft (but 2 of her boyfriends have ended up dead). Well she must have been released from jail as she is back. When we get the property first on the list is fencing and a hot wire. DH found an $$$ device that will send a text to me if the hot wire has been cut. I think we may have to invest in that. I am really concerned about someone doing harm to the future animals, and not just her. There are a lot of drugged out crazies around here always looking for a way to make a buck...rustling would fit the bill nicely.
> 
> I am looking for another LGD. The one I thought I might get in OR was sold but she has a few more. Hoping to work out a trade with her on some future kids. Goats I have, money I don't...is that because I own goats? Hmmm



Congrats Babs!! 

So how many more goats will that allow you to have?


----------



## NH homesteader

Yay! Exciting! And also sounds like you have some terrifying people near you.  Sounds like a good investment, another LGD!


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats!!


----------



## Latestarter

Glad to hear that it's been approved for you. Now you can get more goats and more dogs and not have to worry about govt issues with numbers. I have to say I'm a bit confused though when you say: 





babsbag said:


> Her mother was the late owner's boyfriend


  Am I reading that wrong and just stupid? Or perhaps they (her mother and the "boyfriend") were lesbians?  I don't envy you (or anyone else) having to deal with crazies of any sort. Life has become just so risky...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I wondered the same thing @Latestarter - but it is CA, and she did say there were "crazies" around, lol.

Ya'll forgive me if that wasn't politically correct....


----------



## Latestarter

I'm not very politically correct...


----------



## babsbag

Sorry, her mother was the late owner's girlfriend.


----------



## babsbag

@misfitmorgan   Having this land would allow me to have a total of 78 goats. I do not under any circumstances plan on owning that many. Right now I have I have 48 so we have to room to add a few more. Let me see how long it takes to milk 40 and we will go from there.   This year I should have about 38 goats in milk.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Why does 48 goats sound like so many more than my 32?  Oh wait - it is a LOT more than my 32.  DH asked me why I was even breeding if I'm always griping about having 32 goats, lol.  He just doesn't get it...


----------



## Baymule

Great, so your new property comes with your very own crazy lady that people around her seem to die for no good reason! Wow! I am so jealous! Our 8 acres is so BORING!


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## babsbag

I told DH that I want a 10 joule charger for the fence  and black insulators so when they try to go over it some night they get a truly shocking experience.   

I also get a neighbor that thinks that 3 acres of the 8 is his.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> I also get a neighbor that thinks that 3 acres of the 8 is his.



Oh boy....   Yep - you're gonna need that charger!


----------



## babsbag

The property was recently surveyed and the first thing he did was remove the pins. The land that he wants to claim as his is useless to me as it has a seasonal creek on it and it is considered  a waterway and highly erodible land. The USDA will not let me use it and I am ok with that and knew that going in to this purchase. He has his horses on it and I need to get them off and keep them off as I have signed a statement that the land will not be used or modified in any way. We are going to cast out wildflowers and native seeds and just leave it alone.  

He has a fence on it that he needs to remove. We thought about buying it from him because we will replace it with our own but he is the kind of person that would say that we never bought it and take it down one day when we weren't looking. A real fine upstanding citizen.


----------



## babsbag

frustratedearthmother said:


> Why does 48 goats sound like so many more than my 32? Oh wait - it is a LOT more than my 32. DH asked me why I was even breeding if I'm always griping about having 32 goats, lol. He just doesn't get it...



Don't worry, we have already talked about owning 78 goats and building a bigger dairy and I don't even have this one done yet. 

So I just got the pregnancy test results on 4 of my does. 2 are bred and 2 are open.  Sooooo that means that I have kids due in Jan. (I think) and that the other two are either going to get a shot of lute to bring them into heat or I am sticking them in with THREE bucks and I get what I get.  GRRRRR


----------



## Ferguson K




----------



## Goat Whisperer

You are probably going to need more than lute. It makes them go into heat but doesn't necessarily mean they will release any eggs. 

I can't wait to see you with 80 goats


----------



## babsbag

You are just jealous.   

I THINK I can lute them and then lute them again in 14 days and get an egg released. I have not seen these two does in heat at all. One is my new Togg and I really don't want her bred to a LM. All my bucks are together and it would cause WWIII if I put two does in the pen. I think they would seriously hurt each other. I also have two yearlings to breed but I have seen them in heat, I just didn't have time to deal with it at the moment.


----------



## Baymule

Let's see...... 1 crazy lady that comes with her very own trail of dead people...... 1 bats$hit wacko neighbor that claims 3 acres of your property......un-numered druggies and future rustlers......USDA loan and regulations...... maybe it's just me, but I think your goats should be able to defend themselves......


----------



## frustratedearthmother

but


----------



## NH homesteader




----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## Ferguson K




----------



## babsbag

I like that idea a lot, definitely something to think about.  

I have an LGD that goes into hiding when there is gun fire and I tell her that it is a good thing that coyotes don't carry guns.  My other dogs look at her in confusion when she turns tail and runs for the barn so at least I two that are brave.  But Sigueme is my love so I forgive her.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Now that right there is a true Texas goat!


----------



## Baymule

HomeOnTheRange said:


> Now that right there is a true Texas goat!


It's moving to California.


----------



## NH homesteader

I think California might frown upon that sort of goat. 

It can move  to NH.  You know our  state motto  "Live Free or Die"  applies to goats too right?


----------



## Baymule




----------



## TAH

I saw thought the other day, my younger sister said why would we need a LGD when goats can just shoot there predators. Of course she was just playing.


----------



## babsbag

I am getting a puppy. She is a purebred Anatolian, about 5 months old.  This is not the one I had thought I was getting but it is from the same breeder.  I think I am naming her Alondra, which means protector of mankind, but I'll probably call her Lonnie.


 

  I told Mia that this is her puppy and that she better raise her correctly.


----------



## luvmypets




----------



## TAH

Very adorable pup !

Mia is going to do a great job...maybe...not? 
I am sure she will do great! .


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Great looking pup!


----------



## NH homesteader

Aww! Beautiful pup!


----------



## Mike CHS

That is a pretty girl.  We want another but will wait till Maisy is a bit less pup herself.


----------



## Baymule

I love Alondra! Beautiful girl!


----------



## babsbag

I am not going to keep a kidding journal as there are way too many to freshen and it gets pretty boring. However my first one is due on 1/8 and she is already starting the doe code.  I go out this morning and she is standing out in the field by herself. HMMM.  She is limping a little which doesn't surprise me. Her udder says no way near ready but her "girlie" parts are saying it will be soon. I was really thinking that maybe she wasn't due until March after all as she isn't that big but now I am not sure about anything. Yesterday I thought that perhaps the kids had dropped, but I don't know, maybe it will be March for all I know.    The only thing I really know is that she is pregnant, confirmed by a blood draw.  Doe code all the way.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Nice pup


----------



## samssimonsays

Beautiful pup! So glad the loan was approved,!


----------



## babsbag

The last step on the land purchase if happening tomorrow....the appraisal.  If the land does not appraise for the purchase price then the seller can lower the price or the deal is off.  I am sure it will take a week for the report but I should know soon.


On another note, we had a shed to move. This was my old milking barn and it is now the equipment shed for the dairy and will house the HW heater and the vacuum pump and the controls for the vacuum system. Obviously it needed to be level so I built a platform for it to reside on as our land is anything but level. Now how to get it moved 15' AND up on top of a platform that is 2' off of the ground. My tractor cannot pick it up.  So One tractor pushed, a winch pulled, and the other tractor kept it from falling over. Three days later and it is now in place.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Hope everything goes perfectly with the appraisal.

Great job moving the bldg.  I would have probably killed something had I attempted that, lol!


----------



## babsbag

I had someone all setup to come and move it with his tractor but for some reason DH wanted to pretend that he was an Egyptian. Saved me about 400.00 so I can't complain. We didn't even get in an argument while doing it either; that in itself was a huge accomplishment.


----------



## Mike CHS

I have done similar moves several time so good on you for letting him be a hero this time.


----------



## babsbag

I think he actually like this job, it was certainly a challenge; more mind than physical as the tractor and winch did all the hard work. That is probably why he enjoyed it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Funny that you mention arguing, lol.  Whenever DH is on the tractor I get nervous, he drops a whole bunch of IQ points and invariably there are "words".  I swear I wasn't  being mean to him- but asking him to "watch out" right before he ran the FEL into the side if my new barn should make him watch out- right?  Instead he turns around and tells me he's being careful- right before the Big Bang.   Geeze!  But- the last time he moved a round bale we didn't argue at all.  It's a miracle!


----------



## Mike CHS

Us men like to make simple jobs into a complicated thing but we know who are the true heroes.


----------



## NH homesteader

I am so lucky.  My DH is actually really fantastic with tractors,  skidders,  4 wheelers,  anything with an engine.


----------



## babsbag

Put a FEL on the Deere and the box scraper on her back end and she can get pretty wild; can't take my eyes off of her for a second. I told DH that I want a mirror on her as my old arthritic neck complains about the constantly watching over my shoulder. He said "no".  

@frustratedearthmother  I did something similar with my car when I was a teenager. Got in a fight with my mom and as I was leaving she said "don't forget that your brother's car is parked in the driveway" (he was visiting).  I yelled back " I know", as I backed into his car.


----------



## Baymule

Good job on moving the building. Even better that ya'll did it without a fight. I worked in machine shops and welding shops when I was younger and received the benefit of intensive safety training. DH hasn't the foggiest idea of safety..........


----------



## babsbag

My DH is a Fire and Life Safety Officer, before that he was a Fire Marshal and before that a Fire Engine Operator. Safety is his middle name, almost too a fault at times. But there have been some near misses with the tractor. You are concentrating on one end and forget about the other.


----------



## Baymule

The back bumper on DH's truck has deep dents in it from backing into things. The only light pole in the hospital parking lot--yup--he nailed it, along with other objects that he has found the hard way.


----------



## babsbag

Thought I would share a couple of pictures.  This is Mia, she is my "one year old and finally grew up" LGD. She is turning out to be a great dog but the first 8 months were rough.  She loves the goats and doesn't want to be far from them.






This is my new girl, Alondra. She and Mia are becoming very good friends which is exactly what I wanted. They play quite a bit and Mia is still all mouth, but Alondra is giving it right back to her. At first she was pretty intimidated by Mia but things are going much better this week. However, poor Alondra has managed to hit the electric fence every time she has been in the field with the goats and now she is terrified to leave the barn.     Next week (when it quits raining) I will take her out in the field with a leash on to keep her away from the hot wire; she has to figure out that it is a good place.




And here are some of the "ladies in waiting". Take note of the Cou Clair (black and white) doe standing in the foreground showing us her very obvious baby bump...she is not due until 4/3 ...Oh Oh.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Mia is looking quite grown up!  And, Alondra is just precious!


----------



## Southern by choice

Mia's face is gorgeous!  
Alondra 

Ummm you sure she is 1 month bred?


----------



## babsbag

Southern by choice said:


> Ummm you sure she is 1 month bred?



I saw the deed. While it is possible that she was bred earlier (due this month) not only did I see her in heat on Nov. 4 but I saw her stand for the buck for multiple breedings. I have seen bred goats "flirt" but they never stand. Her udder says that she has 3 more months.


----------



## TAH

Mia is the prettiest dog I have ever seen.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Both dogs are just beautiful!!!!

I love Mia's color! 

How old is the big girl with the bump? Her feet and legs say she's aged. I've noticed aged dogs get a large belly; not necessarily babies causing the bump. 

For an example, look over this link and you'll see a pic of what I'm talking about. 
http://thriftyhomesteader.com/is-my-goat-pregnan/


----------



## Latestarter

Both your new girls are gorgeous. So glad they are getting along, I understand that isn't always the way it works with 2 females. Sorry Alondra hasn't figured out the hot wire yet. That goat looks due a LOT closer than April or maybe she's carrying five...


----------



## babsbag

@Goat Whisperer Without going to get Mango's papers I would say that she is 8 years old....I think that is her 7th freshening.  I know that they can lose their school girl figure as they get older but she is taking it to the extreme.


----------



## Calendula

Although I've been following this post, I've been too nervous to post. I'd just like to say how much I adore what you are doing.  I'd like to have my own dairy (in the far future) and listening to your story makes me feel like it is possible.

Mia is gorgeous. I love her coloring.

And that doe's baby bump... my goodness... I hope everything goes well with her!


----------



## babsbag

@Calendula  Thanks for following my journey and admiring my dog. You can just jump in and ask questions or make comments any time you would like. I am happy to share, as all of us on BYH are. I have friends all over the world due to BYH, and most of them I have never met. It is a great place.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Babs is that weather out there causing you problems? I heard some spots are expecting 15+". Sure hope it doesn't mess you or your animals up too much.


----------



## babsbag

@CntryBoy777  Yesterday I woke up to about 2" of snow which is very rare and was not on the weather forecast but it was pretty calm all day on Sat.  It started raining last night and we are up to about 5" of rain in 12 hours. Right now the rain is sideways from the wind so the rain gauge may not be catching much of it. I live on the top of a hill so no chance that my house will flood. The barn is downhill and getting a bit of water seeping in through the ground but it is on a slope too so any water just passes through and doesn't cause any danger.  The goats are dry so all is good.  

The road to my house is another story. I will post pictures if it gets flooded. I haven't been out to look at it yet but DH is in town right now so he should have a report when he returns.  There is a seasonal creek that runs along the road and it is a private road so not maintained by the county and drainage can be iffy at times. I am actually beginning to wonder where DH is...he should have been back by now.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh my! That's quite a fall rate. The DH probably is waiting for something to let up a tad, or is battling that Wind and being cautious remember where Safety ranks with him.  Glad your animals are safe and you too. Thought and Prayers for y'all and those being affected there.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Hope you don't get any bad flooding 

Yesterday morning I was thinking back to our snowstorm last January… only things missing this time are that you weren't here in NC with us and we didn't have a bajillion kids just born.


----------



## babsbag

Well at least you can't blame me for the lousy weather; I did not bring it with me this time. 

DH was out cutting fence. A neighbor put up 2 fences across the stream bed and it was causing a dam that is threatening to cause the stream to overflow a culvert.  He doesn't have to use this road so he doesn't care. Another neighbor talked to him about it a few weeks ago but he didn't seem to care. This time DH was home and he saw what the fence was doing so when he was at the hardware store he bought bolt cutters and stopped on the way home and cut the fence. The funniest thing about this is that one of the fences is actually on "our" property if we get this land purchased. When that happens that fence will be gone entirely. DH stopped and talked to the neighbor again about the fence but he didn't do anything.  It has to be removed or done correctly.


----------



## Baymule

I love Mia!! How could you stay mad at a beauty like that? Alondra is a very pretty gal too.

We get hard rains, a lot of rain, all at once here. Roads and culverts wash out, a couple of years ago, a private lake dam broke on a road near us and washed out the road. Like you, we are high and dry, but we have to travel the roads that dip down in the creek bottoms.


----------



## babsbag

This is my road two years ago and what we are trying to avoid again this year.

This is not the stream, it is the road. The stream is  way to the right and on the other side of the fence.


----------



## NH homesteader




----------



## Mini Horses

I think you have TWO streams!


----------



## CntryBoy777

WOW!! Our public roads out here are like that, and this past spring we got 13" in 2 days time. The 2 fields that ya see in most of my pasture pics was a flowing like that paralell the ditch. It was as bad as I have ever seen.
Sure Glad the DH made it home okay, and sure hope taking out the fence will cure that problem for y'all, or at least make it Better.


----------



## Baymule

This video was shot by a guy on his way to work, good thing he wasn't on the culverts when it washed out. This was April 2016, on a county road a few miles from us.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## Mike CHS

I don't think I would be sitting there doing a video as fast as water takes away road beds.


----------



## babsbag

OMG


----------



## Baymule

2016 was a VERY rainy year. We had several culverts wash out around us. It is cool that one was on video.


----------



## TAH

OH MY!!!!


----------



## babsbag

It's pouring and the wind is making the rain sideways. Today is a good day to kid, right? Pretty sure that Lyla is having kids today or tonight. She is at day 152 and nesting and she is all sunken in on the sides, her udder has blossomed, she has a little discharge,  and its a miserable day outside. Time for some kids.  She is bred to a mini-alpine by accident but if she has a doe I will keep her and her name will be Stormy.


----------



## Latestarter

CA has been getting some serious rain of late. Hope your hilltop doesn't wash away. Good luck with the kidding!


----------



## Baymule

The news showed pictures of flooding in California. As usual they made it sound like the whole state is underwater. I even got to see the obligatory reporter standing in water past his waist to show us, the viewers, "how deep the water is in the road."  I know Ca. needs the rain, but why does it have to all come at one time?

Stay dry and hope you get your little Stormy.


----------



## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> CA has been getting some serious rain of late. Hope your hilltop doesn't wash away.



Well my mountain isn't likely to wash away but the culvert did breech.   It isn't exactly coming over the top but it is going around one side which could actually be more damaging.  We got about an 1" rain in 30 min. Crazy.  I went to drive out to the Hwy to take out the trash cans and "had to turn around and not drown."  I'm not sure how bad the damage is but at night in the pouring down rain is not the time to find out. So I am house bound for now. DH is coming home tomorrow so he can assess the damage and we can decide how to fix it. There are 8 houses out there and I am not footing the entire bill this time, been there, done that.  

Doe is taking her sweet time to kid. Of course.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## babsbag

8 PM no kids, doe is eating, chewing her cud, a little discharge but not amber in color. Figuring maybe tonight. Maybe not. 

11:45 PM check... two doelings on the ground, cleaned, almost dry. That's the way I like them, no long drawn out drama. Cords are dipped, straw is refreshed, water changed, afterbirth is being passed, grain and hay available, and life is good.

Good night.


----------



## NH homesteader

that's the way it should be, congrats!!!


----------



## Hens and Roos

Congrats!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Congrats!  That is the way to start a kidding season for sure!


----------



## OneFineAcre

Congrats on the two new doelings.


----------



## babsbag

The kids are hoping an bobbing around already. I absolutely do not need any more goats right now but two doelings from one of my best milkers that are 25% nigi might not be a bad thing. 

Funny about their coloring...mom is a cou clair, grandma is cou clair, dad is black, grandpa is mostly black...and I get chamoisee. WTH.




 

 





Up next is Dbl. Trouble. She is due in three days and she has a very low load, I am praying that she has not ruptured her prepubic tendon, she is very low and not very wide.


----------



## Southern by choice

They are so cute!

Love baby goats!

I hope she hasn't either (Dbl Trouble)!


----------



## TAH

Congrats on the beautiful doelings!!
x2 on DBL TROUBLE.


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## CntryBoy777

Awww!! They are so cute Babs, Congradulations!!  So, since one is named Stormy I suggest Dreamer as the 2nd, since the birthing was a Dream come True; just a thought.  I sure hope Dbl doesn't cause ya Trouble for sure.


----------



## Calendula

Congrats on the healthy does and a good start to any kidding season! 

I second CntryBoy. Dreamer seems like the perfect name for that other little girl.

Also hope Dbl Trouble doesn't give you any problems. Good luck.


----------



## babsbag

I usually name my keeper kids with a name that starts with the tattoo letter for the year, but I am breaking the rules for these two little girls. Any other kids born here that I keep will start with the letter "J".  I will keep all mini does, a mini buckling, any polled Alpines, and "maybe" some LaManchas.


----------



## norseofcourse

Congrats on the does and hope all goes well with Double Trouble


----------



## Baymule

Nice looking kids and nice of the doe to have them without a lot of trouble or drama. Hope that Double Trouble doesn't have a ruptured prepubic tendon, I don't want that for you or her either one. If it makes you worry less, I'll say that my ewe looked like a pot bellied pig and your doe looks heavy, but not ruptured.


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## babsbag

Our culvert survived the washout, it came around one side and up over the road but the road stayed intact which is really good. We need to get some rock and fill in around the edge of the culvert but I need the neighbors to pay for part of it. Good luck with that.


----------



## Mini Horses

do the neighbors have to drive over that culvert --or just you?
I'd ask them all & see what can be collected.     Maybe have a meeting.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Most people would rather Pay and be done with it, if someone else makes the calls and arrangments...that way they can "Claim" that they helped....


----------



## Ferguson K

Congrats on the doelings! Color genetics confuse me.


----------



## babsbag

Ditto on the colors, I was very surprised. My Alpine buck is a Chamoisee and most of his kids are chamoisee or broken chamoisee. I didn't expect this from my BLACK mini buck. 

@Mini Horses, There are 8 homes out here and everyone drives over this culvert. However, most of my neighbors are either retired or just plain unemployed and claim that they have no money. Many of them grow marijuana on the side and have more money than we do. Two of us already paid 800 to have the road graded, and I paid 600 of that. Another neighbor rented an excavator and did some work too, not sure what that cost him.  This is a private road so it is up to the residents to take care of it, it is just native soil, mostly river rock and hard to work with.   Wish I was rich, I would have it professionally paved and be done with it. This summer we need to add another culvert, I think that the drought had us all pretty complacent. 


Would love to have a road maintenance agreement in place, but hard to do with a bunch of old timers that have been here longer than the road, literally. One of them put in this culvert years ago, before that they just forded the stream and hoped for the best. It isn't a small culvert either.  This was a mild flow compared to last night.


----------



## Latestarter

Time to dig out and make a nice pond upstream of the road. Then replace/add another culvert for pond overflow.


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## Mini Horses

WOW...That's a RIVER not a stream  

Yeah, sometimes there is no money and sometimes there just is a "wait & someone else will do it" attitude.   ANY chance that the road could be given to the State and they would maintain it? Not all States will do this but, some will.  Yes, a hassle.

So, now you have does coming into milk....is the dairy at a point that you will be able to use them and operate?   Will you bottle the kids now/soon?   I would think you are rushing a fast as you can to get this working but, just wondering how far along you are now.  It would be exciting to see it up & working.....yes, for you too 

Just been so many "things" going on, was wondering how the original plan was progressing.   Often I find myself taking on things at the wrong time but, often they are now or never things, future needs.  High gear running can be exhausting.


----------



## Calendula

Just like Mini Horses said, I bet most of them are doing the "wait and let someone else do it." They probably don't want to spend their money on fixing their road if they think someone else will just eventually do it.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Darling kids


----------



## babsbag

The county is not interested in maintaining our road.  And that "river" is protected by Dept. of Fish and Game so we can't build a pond. It runs through the property that we are hopefully buying and I can't even let my animals near it, it is considered highly erodible land.  I have a friend with an excavator that will dig out for another culvert this summer but I don't want to foot the bill alone...We will see.  

My third doe to kid decided to be number two. All
day today she was talking to me, every time I walked in the barn Juliette would call out to me so I knew that something was up. After the evening feeding I put her in a kidding pen. This is where it gets interesting. 

She is in a pen with Lyla and her week old kids on one side, and the other side is empty... I feed Alondra in there. A few hours later I go to the barn to check on her and as I get near the barn I hear Francis doing his "get away from my doe/kid" snarl which is weird as he isn't near the kidding pens. Then I hear Lyla snorting and pawing and acting stressed and I am thinking it is for no good reason and wondering what is up with her. WRONG. Juliette has somehow undone one side of her kidding pen and she is in the center aisle of the barn, in a corner, screaming...very much in "I am having this kid now" mode. Francis is on the other side of a stock panel making sure that nobody gets near that corner. I am really glad he stayed in the barn with does and didn't join the center aisle party as that might now have been a good experience for Mia and Alondra. He is very protective of the does and kids. 

Lyla has also pushed on a panel and gotten out through the same gate and she is in the barn aisle as well. And guess what...Alondra and Mia are also in the barn aisle. My heart is in my throat wondering what condition I am going to find the kids in as I know that they are certainly together. Alondra has not been around kids at all and Mia was a terror last year as a pup.  Well I am happy to report that the kids are fine, not a slobber on them. 

I am rounding up kids, fixing pens, and watching Juliette out of one eye and sure enough she has a kid. So I grab the kid as I don't want Mia and Alondra to get too excited about the blood and I put him in a pen and then grab Juliette. I get him dried and dipped and the doe is already starting to pass the afterbirth which is weird as she is a big as a house. There has to be another one in there and after about 15 minutes she delivers a doeling. Strange, I don't think I have ever seen this before, maybe this time they each had there own placenta??? Anyways, one buckling, one doeling, no chewed up kids. Pens are put back together for the night and will be reinforced tomorrow. The other doe is in a pen too, just in case.

What a night. Sigueme is on patrol tonight and she can bark all she wants. Love that dog.

No pictures of the kids but here are the two girls outside of the kidding pen. They are wishful thinking. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			









@Mini Horses I did not pull these kids to bottle feed, these three does were an oops, the rest aren't due until March and later. I am at least 3 months out on the dairy and that would be a miracle...I could sure use one of those right now. 

I have had a few snags and I am beyond frustrated. I installed a suspended type ceiling in the milk room and I hated it. It is called Ceiling Max and it can be installed right up against the ceiling joist to get the extra ceiling height. It looked horrible. Gaps everywhere and I spent hours working on ways to force the panels tight against the grid and after two days I gave up, took it down, and I am waiting for another tongue and groove system to be available next week. 





I had installed the same grid in the milking parlor and stopped before putting the panels in, glad I did. I took it down too. So in the parlor I switched to corrugated panels for the ceiling which I really like, I still need to finish the trim around the walls and some screws in the field but it came out nice. I would have used it in the milk room too but the milk room needs to have all the seams caulked and I felt that there was going to be a lot of caulking and it just wouldn't look as clean and tidy. 
Here is the ceiling, minus the trim, which will help hold it up, so it is currently a little floppy on the edges. The hole is for a fan. 






This has been an expensive mistake. 

Next frustration point is the floor. It needs another coat of epoxy paint. I was afraid of that when I did it to begin with but I was hoping I could live with it, but I can't. It has cracked on one seam, and I also added too much anti-slip grit. I was going to live with the grit but since the crack showed up I will just give it a quick sanding and another coat. Fortunately I have extra product...now if I only had extra time. 

Tomorrow I will be painting the floor in the equipment room and painting the trim for the ceiling. I might get the trim up, not sure. I have a bunch of errands to run before the next big storm shows up on Wed. I have two hand wash sinks to install so I might start on those this week too. 

DH is working on the electrical but unfortunately he has a 'day job' and will be gone all week. Milking stands will be getting made this month, I am delivering the head gates to them next week and then they will start on the stands. So things are progressing, it is just taking F O R E V E R and I am learning that I am not as young as I used to be. 

I also have a tack room to build on the barn so I can reclaim a kidding pen that I am currently using. I will need that pen and more come March.


----------



## Latestarter

OK, I'm officially exhausted after reading... I think I need a nap to recover.  Mia and Alondra look great. Sure glad the outcome wasn't bad from the escape artists.


----------



## NH homesteader

Wow you had quite the time with this one! Congrats on the (healthy, non-slobbered) kids! 

I can't even imagine the craziness of the work you are doing on the dairy. It sounds exhausting. I hope you're able to get it up and running in the time frame you're aiming for! And I can't wait to see more pictures!!


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> So things are progressing, it is just taking F O R E V E R and I am learning that I am not as young as I used to be.



Oh -- I also find this to be such a downer for me, too -- especially since your mind doesn't tell you this!!   You still "think" 20 yrs younger when you begin/plan.    

So glad your "hot mess " in the kidding shed turned out well!  If the does won't read "the book" about behavior & kidding,  I sure wish they'd at least share the one they wrote!   Luckily we have been able to anticipate some things over the years -- then, we find a new chapter was added!!!       When we are alone it makes for a lot of juggling  --  a few extra hands are needed.  Good job.


----------



## babsbag

Mini Horses said:


> When we are alone it makes for a lot of juggling -- a few extra hands are needed. Good job.



A few extra hands and a few less dogs and goat kids would have been great. Of course DH was home but he was already in bed; he gets up at 4 AM on the day he leaves for work.


----------



## Ferguson K

What an exciting evening!


----------



## babsbag

Doe number three is in labor. I am already exhausted, so why tonight? Doe code... This is the doe that I am a little concerned about as she is carrying the kids ultra low.  

Could someone please tell me what am I going to do in March when I have 25 does due in a 30 day period?


----------



## Latestarter

and just think... you ASKED for this!


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## babsbag

I would have actually preferred that they had cycled and gotten in bred in groups of six and not spread it out for an entire month.  

The scary thing is that in all the does that have freshened here I have never had a really bad tangled messed up kidding.  I counted how many freshenings I have had in the last 8 years and it was over 75;  I keep asking myself if my good luck is due to run out?   I am always a little terrified this time of year.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Take a deep breath, and I'll be saying a prayer for you


----------



## Ferguson K




----------



## norseofcourse

What @BlessedWithGoats said... you will get through it.  There's over a month before March and maybe some of the things going on will be ironed out by then and lower the stress level.  I sure hope so, you're one tough lady and doing an awesome job on building your dairy!

What brand of coffee do you drink?  I may want to buy some stock...


----------



## babsbag

norseofcourse said:


> What brand of coffee do you drink? I may want to buy some stock...



Whatever is on sale 

I went back to the barn in an hour as I promised her and she had one kid on the ground cleaned and trying to stand. I waited an hour and no real contractions but I knew that there were more kids, there had to be. So I called my mentor for a dose of courage, gloved up and went in. I went WAY in, or at least it seemed like it to me. I finally found a kid's back legs, oh goody goody.  So I got the feet lined up and pulled. Kid is out and cleaned and still no contractions so what the heck, I've already been in so let's do it again just to be sure no more kids. Well, guess what...kid number three, also breech. This time the doe is trying to push but I don't have the legs lined up yet and there is no way she is pushing it out with the legs bent. I finally get it where I want it, she has a contraction and I pull. Go in again to check and I don't find anymore kids. 

Well, that was fun. All bucklings.  She was carrying these kids very very low and I don't know if labor stalled, if the breech position didn't trigger more contractions of if she has other problems. It is a wait and see I guess. 

No more kids until March.


----------



## Latestarter

So you ended up with three healthy (I hope) bucklings? Sorry no doelings, but at least you got them all out! I guess you won't be breeding her anymore?


----------



## Mike CHS

Now it's time for that deserved break. You have to be a happy camper now that this part is over.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Congrats on a successful delivery!


----------



## norseofcourse

Congrats and great job!  Now get some sleep


----------



## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> I guess you won't be breeding her anymore?



If she has no problems in the next week or so she will get bred again. My friend tells me that wrist deep in a goat's backside is not deep and that it sounds like labor just stalled for whatever reason, could have been the breech position.

I was away from the barn for about an hour and the first kid was up and pretty dry when I got there. She could have tried to deliver immediately after that birth and not been able to due to the position. He was lined up to come out hocks first, that doesn't work. After I pulled the first one and went back in she had contractions as my hand was in there...ouch. 

She has a beautiful udder and is a great milker...that is why she gave me all boys.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> She has a beautiful udder and is a great milker...that is why she gave me all boys.




Stinker!


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## babsbag

And I need to get pictures of her kids. Most of my Alpines born here are the same color...broken chamoisee... my buck has probably a 90% chance of throwing that color. Here are two from last year as an example.   






I enjoy eye candy and these three bucklings born last night are stinkin' adorable. One is a cou blanc with a black dorsal stripe and the other two are black with white patches and/or frosting. ADORABLE...bucks.


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## Goat Whisperer

Maybe you need to keep one, so he can put his dam's beautiful udder on his daughters


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## babsbag

They are 25% ND and I don't want to start a line of goats that I can't register anywhere.


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## babsbag

Plus his dam is a grand-daughter to one of my original three goats and therefore related to almost every Alpine out there.


----------



## Mini Horses

Get your building work done because it sounds like you will miss a few days of construction work in March.   

4 of my 7 does kidded Sun thru Tue this week.  Only 3 more...one anytime, other two maybe 2 wks???  Or whenever.    

Many years back, I had about 75 does and 8 kidded in one afternoon within about 2 hrs.   THAT was fun.  So, get ready.

Luckily I haven't had to do much with the goats but, I've sure been inside a fair number of mini horses!


----------



## babsbag

Mini Horses said:


> Many years back, I had about 75 does and 8 kidded in one afternoon within about 2 hrs. THAT was fun. So, get ready.



Oh why oh why do you not live near me ???  I had three in one day, that was plenty, thanks.


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## Latestarter

I think we've discussed this Babs... you need to move east, closer to the right coast as opposed to being over there on the wrong coast.


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## babsbag

Yes @Latestarter, we have discussed this...I like my coast 

I have a friend that travels to NY every year for about a month to help a friend that owns a dairy deliver kids.  I need to find someone that has the experience but not the goats so they can come and visit me. People that own goats don't have time to go away for a month. 

If I don't have the dairy done I won't pull kids so that will make it a little easier.


----------



## Alexz7272

I'll be in San Fran around May, maybe I'll have to come show ya how to weld and/or help kid!


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## babsbag

Wouldn't that be fun. I don't know which would be better, learning to weld and help with a kidding.   What is bringing you to CA?


----------



## Alexz7272

We sometimes go out to the Makers Faire in San Mateo which is in May! The boy is an inventor, so he loves that stuff & he has some patents & pending ones so he likes to scope out the competition  
But trust me, I would make him make the trip up if you ever wanted, I'd love to see more of California


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## babsbag

I know that shade cloth applied horizontally lets rain through but does anyone have any experience on how well it performs vertically with wind blown rain?  I know that there are varying degrees of shade cloth too which may make a difference. 

This picture is a strange perspective but I need to cover the area above the green metal roof to the top of the arch. I want something that can breathe for summer but it has to keep most (all would be awesome) of the rain out. This is the south side of the barn and our wind and rain comes from the south. Getting up and down off the roof is tough and the metal isn't designed to be walked on so I am looking for something I don't have to take down every spring. 

Gosh, it was so nice and dry when I tool this picture.


----------



## Baymule

babsbag said:


> Could someone please tell me what am I going to do in March when I have 25 does due in a 30 day period?



Sure, that's easy! You just WON'T SLEEP for a month! 

On the washed out culvert, the best way to fix it is with stacked bags of cement. Start at the bottom, off setting them as you go up. Stab them together with rebar and they will be there forever. Backfill with dirt.


----------



## babsbag

Baymule said:


> On the washed out culvert, the best way to fix it is with stacked bags of cement. Start at the bottom, off setting them as you go up. Stab them together with rebar and they will be there forever. Backfill with dirt.



Sounds like a plan I can live with. We hope to make it through this winter and maybe add another culvert.


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## Mike CHS

We changed our breeding plans to not have more that a dozen due in the same month.  We are are breeding 10 in July and the other 7 in November.  

I'm not sure what we will do next year when we have 40.


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## CntryBoy777

About that shade cloth and blowing rain...put up a couple of vinyl panels as louvers...ya can get those in sheets at HDepot or Lowe's...and in Clear if ya choose...it will knock down the water, but would have ventilation too....may have to find some 2x4s for a frame or brace...if ya screw them in tbey could be taken down easily, or just leave up. 
Are ya suppose to get some more anytime soon?


----------



## babsbag

That's a good idea. I am still waiting to hear from FarmTek about the shade cloth and a hem in one side that will accept a length of pipe. We have the pipe so might as well use it and that will give me a way to anchor the shade cloth to the roof so it doesn't blow around.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Use some old shower curtain liners...they are solid and repel, the shade cloth will rip in some of the Winds ya get out there....just an after thought.


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## babsbag

I was just looking for something that would let air through. I would love to build some kind of frame with windows that slide or hinge somehow and someday that may happen. There isn't a whole lot of height between the top of the add on and the hoop, maybe 4.5' at the peak so there isn't much to work with. And it is a long ways up there too, about 15' to the top of the arch so we have to use the orchard ladder and it has a really wide base and hard to maneuver in the barn alley way.   It was so nice in there last summer with it all open that I hate to block the air flow at all.


----------



## babsbag

It seems that the loan on the adjacent land is finally approved. I was told today that the closing papers will be going to the title company next week.   Now to resist the temptation to stop work on the dairy and work on fencing...I need to hire the fencing done.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Uh-Oh!.....more Land...more Fence....more Math! Congrats Babs!!
Of course, there could be more LGDs too.


----------



## babsbag

@CntryBoy777  I already have the LGDs. I think 4 can handle the job.   My goats are so overprotected right now it isn't even funny. 

More fence for sure, but before I can put up new I have to take down the old but I am hiring that done. Ahh I love hard working youth. I may run a string line and have the same youth put in t-posts. I am excited and terrified at the same time.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I wasn't "Faulting" your dogs at all, Babs...honestly, I didn't recall right off hand how much land was in the "Expansion", and how you were going to split that land up....and if were of size or numbers of fields, there may be need of adding some. So, I wasn't doubting the "Abilities" of your team now tho.


----------



## babsbag

I didn't take it that way at all. It's all good.

The additional land is 8 acres, about 5.5 usable. The goats will have access to most of it for now except for the area where there is an old shack and outhouse that needs to go away. I don't need a curious goat falling in a nasty old hole in the ground, and they would if they could.  Eventually I hope to cross fence it and put in some seasonal pasture and maybe a steer and definitely some pigs, but not breeding pigs, only raising them for my freezer. Will also be making a holding area for our "rolling stock" but very secure so no one steals the trailers. I have a dump trailer, a horse trailer, a manure spreader trailer, and 3 flat bed trailers (hope to be two one day) and I just don't have the the room to store them all. DH found an alarm that will send a message to my phone when the hot wire is tested, I may invest in that for the trailer corral.

I put gates between my fields and teach my dogs to go between fields by going over the gates. On a perimeter gate I close in the top area and run a strand of hot wire. It works and the dogs stay put. This new area will have a lot more coyote exposure being that it fronts the creek; I may put 5' wire on the creek side just to make me feel better. The creek side is also the road side...another reason for 5' wire.  Hmmm, maybe 6'; I trust coyotes a lot more than humans.  But really I think 5' would be good, IF I can afford it. That side of the land is right around 600'.

Of course I need a couple of shelters for pigs and cattle and hay storage for them. I have some old tin, not pretty, but usable and paid for; I also have a bunch of culled lumber from Lowes that contains quite a few 4x6 posts. I should be able to do something when the time is right.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm happy that the plan seems to be falling in place and you definitely have thought it out by the sound of it.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It sure does, Mike....sounds like a "Dream" coming true. 
I use 5' wire here for all boundary fencing. I feel better with it, and if I can deter a predator with that extra, then it is worth it to me.
Babs it sounds like the extra room and space will certainly be a Blessing for sure, and hope it all does come together for ya.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Congrats Babs!   Good luck on that fencing - yep - definitely hire some strong young lads to take care of that!


----------



## babsbag

I priced out the 5' fence today and I am not sure I can justify the difference. I can get 4' for 119.00 a roll at our local lumber yard and 5' is 189.00 at TSC.  When you have 1300' to do that comes out to almost a $1000.00   My dogs will keep the 4 legged predators at bay and a determined 2 legged one probably won't be stopped by anything.  $1000 can buy a lot of t-posts and labor.


----------



## goatgurl

wow, babs, congrats on the additional land.  sounds like things are coming together.  how close to starting is the dairy.  tough decision on the $ of the wire.  if the rolls are 330' then you would need 4 rolls and the difference would be about $280.  might be worth the extra in the long run but having to come up with that extra $ isn't easy.


----------



## babsbag

The dairy isn't close enough. LOL  I am hoping to be milking in there by April; even if I am not legal I can start using it and learning how it all works. 

The rolls are only 100'. It is 2x4 no climb fencing. I like that for my perimeters as no critters bigger than a squirrel can get in. I they were 330' rolls I would do it for sure.


----------



## goatgurl

oh my, only 100 foot rolls.  have you looked at 4x4 woven wire?  ds#1 has that and while a squirrel might get thru her chickens can't.  she uses the 4x4 and a couple of strands of barbed wire.  and we have a pretty high predator population around here.  the fence and a  big barking dog keeps them away.


----------



## Baymule

We bought the 2x4 non climb at TSC in 200' rolls. It's heavy, but we like the longer rolls. Good news on the land loan, really happy for you.


----------



## babsbag

If anyone knows of any place to buy, beg, or steal 1.5" DeLeval glass pipeline please let me know. I am in need of a 2' piece, or a 6' piece.  Of course I will pay shipping, etc.


----------



## babsbag

4 years ago I had a FF doe abort her kids at about 4 months gestation. She has never settled since and it has been assumed that she had an infection after the abortion and that scar tissue formed. She comes into hear every year and then 5 months after her last heat she comes into milk. Since milk is my focus I am ok with this. This year she came into heat once and I put her with the buck. I never saw her in heat again so I got to looking at her and wondering... she is a BIG goat but this year REALLY big so I had blood drawn.

*MOCHA IS PREGNANT !!!!!!!!!!!!
*
Now if I could only remember for sure the day that she was bred. I am thrilled. Think pink for me. 

On another note we FINALLY signed papers on our land today and landed right in the middle of an argument with the neighbor over property lines. It has been surveyed and recorded in Oct.  The guy removed the pins. I had it remarked ($300) and he removed the pins. We put in t-post...guess what happened then...he removed them. He has been warned that he is breaking the law. Surveyor coming back next week with 2" iron pipe and me with a bag of concrete to set the corner post. This is not just a little chunk of land, it is about 3 acres. It is an area that I can't use because of the stream but I signed a paper saying that there would be no livestock on the land as it is considered "highly erodible land" and the USDA makes you agree to protecting it. This neighbor runs a couple of horses on the land so they need get gone. Sheriff won't help either as it is a civil matter.  We will fence it next week and then remove his fence. Then he needs to prove that we are wrong. Where's my island?


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## Mike CHS

I don't envy you.  We had a problem neighbor that fortunately moved.  I can't relate to what makes a lot of people tick.


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## norseofcourse

Congrats on the signing, grrrr about the neighbor.  Too bad the sheriff won't help - he's trespassing, destroying property, and I believe it's illegal to mess with surveyor's marks.  He hasn't been using the property long enough to try and claim adverse possession, has he?


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## Baymule

Just shoot the neighbor and let the sheriff come pick him up.  

What about reporting him to the USDA, EPA, Homeland Security, Game wardens, any and EVERY government entity? Call in a TV station, make lots of noise.


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## misfitmorgan

Could try reporting him to the DEQ they wouldnt like the horses on the highly erodible land. I can't believe the sheriff wont do anything, the guy is blatantly breaking several laws. Stick up a trail cam so you have evidence and then maybe try calling the state cops instead? I know here the small town sheriffs are mostly all worthless and lazy but the state boys take care of things for us.


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## babsbag

Fortunately it has not been long enough for him to claim it through adverse possession and in CA he would have had to be paying the taxes on it to do that, and he didn't do that. He knows he is wrong, he is just being a jerk. At least there is 8 acres between him and me, I don't consider him a neighbor. I have a few ideas on building the fence around his horses but I am still annoyed that I am paying money to have it re-pinned (who wouldn't be annoyed) and I will certainly call the Dept of Fish and Game or the USDA if he hassles me. His horses need to be gone.


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## Latestarter

Great to hear about Mocha... hope she carries to delivery without issues. Grats on the new property. Sorry about the neighbor...

Jeeze... I really dislike people (as a general rule)... more and more as I get older. There's just no excuse for some of them. No idea how to handle it aside from WW III and start shooting. Sucks that the sheriff won't do what he's paid to do. Maybe do a lawyer consult and see what your options are from that direction. Game cams would be a great help for proof, but make sure he doesn't see where you place them so he doesn't steal them as well.


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## Mike CHS

We had one of THOSE type of neighbors when we bought our place but didn't know it.  Luckily he found a wife on the internet from Arizona and sold to go there.  His replacement is a super friend now.


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## CntryBoy777

May be set some traps....even a rat trap will snap a finger......


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## babsbag

@Latestarter if you "dislike" people you would not dislike my "neighbors" as I have decided that they are not really people. They are demons. DH and I stopped to talk to them after we signed the papers to let them know that we bought the land and that we were going to move the fence. No fight, just a conversation. The guys daughter starting yelling at DH and cussing him out, telling him that he was disrespecting her father...give me a break. He is a grown man, let him talk for himself. So DH told them that "we were going to go home and put on our work clothes and start taking down the fence". And we left. 

So on Saturday my DH gets "served". The bi***h wife that wasn't even present during the conversation my husband had with her husband filed a restraining order against him. She claims that he threatened to have "his men" (whoever they are) come armed with guns to protect him while he takes down the fence. Also said that DH told her husband that "he better put on his work clothes and fix the corral for the horses"  Good golly this woman is crazy. So I wanted to spend 2500.00 on an attorney right? Good way to spend some spare change.... 

She also claims that DH cut their fence during a storm and that her poor husband and daughter had to fix the fence during a big storm and that they fell in the creek. (That's good news if they did fall in). Yes, the fence was fixed during a storm but not because we cut it...the damn thing fell over from the force of the water against their illegally installed fence. DH told them to take it down or cut the bottom wire or something as it was causing the road to flood. We didn't cut it. She also says that OUR surveyors cut the fence, but they didn't and they aren't our surveyors...we didn't hire them. She is nuts, but those are the scary ones to deal with.

As part of this stupid temporary restraining order we had to pawn all of our guns. Isn't that sweet? Nothing like being guilty without a trial. 

So while I am not worried, I am worried. What if we get some crazy judge that thinks that every damsel in distress is in the right? I was witness to all of this but that doesn't mean that they will believe me. She has family members that will back her up too. I pray that this does not become one of those nightmare stories you hear about. Even if the restraining order goes away it still stays on DH's public record for life. And last but not least this court hearing will not solve the property line issue, that will be for yet another court if they want to push it that far. I am hoping that they lose this round and just go away and I am hoping that the judge makes them pay for the attorney. 

Tell me that this is just a bad bad dream.


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> @Latestarter if you "dislike" people you would not dislike my "neighbors" as I have decided that they are not really people. They are demons. DH and I stopped to talk to them after we signed the papers to let them know that we bought the land and that we were going to move the fence. No fight, just a conversation. The guys daughter starting yelling at DH and cussing him out, telling him that he was disrespecting her father...give me a break. He is a grown man, let him talk for himself. So DH told them that "we were going to go home and put on our work clothes and start taking down the fence". And we left.
> 
> So on Saturday my DH gets "served". The bi***h wife that wasn't even present during the conversation my husband had with her husband filed a restraining order against him. She claims that he threatened to have "his men" (whoever they are) come armed with guns to protect him while he takes down the fence. Also said that DH told her husband that "he better put on his work clothes and fix the corral for the horses"  Good golly this woman is crazy. So I wanted to spend 2500.00 on an attorney right? Good way to spend some spare change....
> 
> She also claims that DH cut their fence during a storm and that her poor husband and daughter had to fix the fence during a big storm and that they fell in the creek. (That's good news if they did fall in). Yes, the fence was fixed during a storm but not because we cut it...the damn thing fell over from the force of the water against their illegally installed fence. DH told them to take it down or cut the bottom wire or something as it was causing the road to flood. We didn't cut it. She also says that OUR surveyors cut the fence, but they didn't and they aren't our surveyors...we didn't hire them. She is nuts, but those are the scary ones to deal with.
> 
> As part of this stupid temporary restraining order we had to pawn all of our guns. Isn't that sweet? Nothing like being guilty without a trial.
> 
> So while I am not worried, I am worried. What if we get some crazy judge that thinks that every damsel in distress is in the right? I was witness to all of this but that doesn't mean that they will believe me. She has family members that will back her up too. I pray that this does not become one of those nightmare stories you hear about. Even if the restraining order goes away it still stays on DH's public record for life. And last but not least this court hearing will not solve the property line issue, that will be for yet another court if they want to push it that far. I am hoping that they lose this round and just go away and I am hoping that the judge makes them pay for the attorney.
> 
> Tell me that this is just a bad bad dream.



Oh Babs that really really is terrible. What a bunch of snakes they are, don't worry karma will get them.


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## CntryBoy777

That is totally absurd that they would do such. I would try and get pics/video to prove they are liars, and the survey crew can also be a witness on your behalf, too. Fight fire with fire....not that you falsely accuse them....but, pics of the horses and anything illegal will establish that their creditability is not very credible. If there is any further confrontation made by them, record it...the audio will be evidence too. If there is any suspected illegal activity taking place on their property, make an anonymous phone call to the authorities and turn them in. If there are other neighbors around them, talk to those to see if they have horror stories. Liars don't just lie to one person, but to all...that can give ya weight to what you say is true. So sorry ya are having to endure such, and really hope that things will turn to your Favor very shortly.


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## Latestarter

Wow Babs... that just plain sucks and you're right... I can't even imagine the legal battle they are going to cause you. It's just so expensive to fight a court battle... even if you win. I suggest you get a sheriff out, in civilian attire would be even better, and confront the neighbor with the sheriff present and explain once again that their fence is illegally placed and should/will be removed, that they've been recorded pulling up the survey stakes, and to cease and desist. Then I'd sue them for time, trouble, expenses and emotional damages.  You should be able to get the judge to expunge DH's record.

To bad we're so civilized... It would be so much easier/faster/painless to just shoot them all and bury them on the back 40 someplace.


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## misfitmorgan

Latestarter said:


> Wow Babs... that just plain sucks and you're right... I can't even imagine the legal battle they are going to cause you. It's just so expensive to fight a court battle... even if you win. I suggest you get a sheriff out, in civilian attire would be even better, and confront the neighbor with the sheriff present and explain once again that their fence is illegally placed and should/will be removed, that they've been recorded pulling up the survey stakes, and to cease and desist. Then I'd sue them for time, trouble, expenses and emotional damages.  You should be able to get the judge to expunge DH's record.
> 
> To bad we're so civilized... It would be so much easier/faster/painless to just shoot them all and bury them on the back 40 someplace.



That would work so long as Babs DH didnt go over there with them but i doubt the sheriff would play along unless Babs has a friend in law enforcement.


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## babsbag

I would actually prefer a snake, at least you know their poison.

The surveyors won't come back without a sheriff present so the pins have to wait.  I guess when they were here before they were told that it was a good thing they identified themselves or they would have been met with bullets. And yet my DH is the dangerous guy???? They surveyor did say that they would testify for us. I have other neighbors that will testify on when the fence was placed and if it stops raining I will work on the fence this weekend. If I use one of my corners I can measure to the missing pin and come just inside and be good. We have pictures of where the pins were so we can line it up with landmarks like trees and perennial weeds. I really want to piss them off and have them call the sheriff on me; that will give me an excuse to file a complaint against them without paying 430.00.  I won't argue with them, but I will call 911 at the drop of a hat. Especially since they have guns and I don't. 

As far as illegal stuff on their land...no problem. Their property is littered with old cars, sheds that are falling over, trailers, garbage, you name it.  Every time I look our my back window to see the mountains I see their crap and now when the winds come a lot of end will end up on my land.  I will be calling the county once a week to make a complaint, the greasy wheel gets the oil.  

This is very draining emotionally and financially that is for sure.


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## CntryBoy777

It certainly isn't like ya didn't have enough on your plate already, and ya could go a lifetime without the distraction. With all the junk over there, it seems that it just might be a fire hazard and a timely visit from a Fire Official may just keep ya safe thru the coming dry spell and wildfires. When ya "Pounce" make sure ya "Pounce" extremely Hard, and keep their head spunning so fast they don't have time to even think of what is really hitting them. You are just trying to be a Law abiding Good citizen, with community concerns. They can't bother the Deputy and surveyors with a Fire Marshal inspecting their place. The false aquisations would go by the wayside, I believe. I would be willing to bet that they have much more to Hide than y'all do.


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## Baymule

You have to run a property line fence, then fence off the creek bottom to keep your goats off, right? Make your goat fence higher, top with electrified razor wire and place caltrops in the "no-mans land in between. Place game cameras, and motion lights. Maybe a motion activated automatic water system that spews sulphuric acid just for fun......


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## babsbag

@Baymule, I hate the people, not the horses.   That is part of the problem here...I am trying to "be kind to the critters" while making life miserable for their owners. I have rolls and rolls of old barbed wire we just took down and I thought about using it but hate to see a horse get cut up over a property line dispute. Eventually their horses will be coming right up to our shared fence.   I would love to put cameras and lights out there but there is no power and if I use a solar fence charger they will just steal it. Since it is across a road it is tough to run power. 

I went out to feed yesterday morning and my oldest goat, Moonpie, was not at the feeder. She was taking her time getting up the hill but I had a moment of panic thinking that the retribution had already started. Add to that Alondra not wanting to eat and I was more than a little concerned. It all ended good, but not a good feeling at all. I hate living this way.


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## Mike CHS

I would make sure I had game cameras if you are able to.  That is really a terrible way to have to live.


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## babsbag

And so it begins... 3 days early. I walked in to the barn tonight to my LGD doing his best "grrr...they are mine" and triplets on the ground. Not sure if they are purebred LaManchas, mini Manchas, or Alpine X Lamancha. It was an oopsie day 5 months ago and I just went with it. 2 bucklings and a doeling, all nursing well but mom only has eyes for the doeling. I think maybe my LGD cleaned the other kids or else he just plain stole them from her, but she swears that she only has one kid. I DO NOT want bottle babies so she better figure this out soon.


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats on the kids!  Hope your doe figures it out, otherwise your LGD will be on bottle duty


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## Baymule

Too bad your LGD doesn't have teats. LOL Then he could take over those night feedings for you!

My over the top suggestions were a wry attempt to inject some warped humor into a tense situation. I am sorry you have demons like this next to you. Too bad they won't get along. Ok next warped suggestion, scatter a couple pounds of marijuana seeds on their property, wait for them to grow, then call sheriff department.


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## babsbag

Today I clean the barn... wish me luck that I don't get lost in the muck. If you never hear from me again you will know that I am buried alive.   It is supposed to rain all next week so it is today or next month. Good golly that is getting old.  I also need to mow the lawn, plant some trees and other plants I bought but the barn comes first. I need a clone today.  Tomorrow in the rain I have to get ready for bees as they are coming home on Sunday. The apples, berries, cherries, persimmons, plums, and pears have not yet bloomed so I am happy to get my bees.


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## Baymule

If we don't hear from you.......maybe you should tie a rope to your ankle and the other end to the gate post so we'll have somewhere to start looking. We can just pull the rope until you reappear.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Remember to take a moment to relax and destress... Even if it's just 5 minutes for a cup of coffee


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## babsbag

I survived the barn on day two. The first day I had to go buy fuel, had a dead battery, and the beast overheated. It has been determined that there is a leak somewhere in her cooling system. Day two I just kept her full of fluid and the deed is done. 

Had a doe kid last night with twin bucklings...three weeks early. I doubt they will survive but trying all the tricks. Of course the does that are due aren't kidding...Geesh.


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## Southern by choice

3 weeks early!  

What a week!


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## HomeOnTheRange

Ouch.  That is early!


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## babsbag

One didn't make it, the other is still with me but it will be a miracle. This one will still nurse but not much. I gave Dex to help the lungs, which might be useless, it may only work before the kids are born.  But I had nothing to lose.


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## Mike CHS

Sending Good Wishes that it turns out well.


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## babsbag

Is anybody on here close to College Station Texas?  I am hoping to buy an Udderly EZ milker off of Craigslist and looking for options if the seller isn't interested in shipping. But then again it could be sold already. My hands are KILLING me milking one doe. I don't want to get out the big machine for one goat.


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## Latestarter

Hey Babs, The closest person I believe would be either @Ferguson K or @greybeard 

It would be ~It would be about a 4 hour drive one way for me. Let me know if I can help you.


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## OneFineAcre

Just caught up 
I want you to know il going to say a little prayer for you tonight with all you are going through with your neighbor
Praying for your premies too


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## Hens and Roos

sending prayers for the little guy


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## babsbag

@Latestarter I haven't heard back on the CL ad so I am guessing that it is no longer available. Thanks for the offer of help, even if you are too far away to send on an errand.  I have my eye on one on eBay and if that doesn't work then I guess it is buy it new. OUCH.

The little guy is still with me. He eats pretty well, about 4-6 oz. 5 times a day. He is standing and walking pretty good but keeping his legs under him is a small challenge. He does breathe hard and I am not sure if it is his underdeveloped lungs or a respiratory issue so I went ahead and gave some Duramycin. He isn't out of the woods but maybe he will be a miracle baby. 

Of course if he does make it what do I do with him? I sell most of my bucklings to someone that I am pretty sure raises them for food. I CAN NOT let something that I have babied like this be dinner. Hopefully I can find him a pet home but there are so many goats around my area that it might be tough. He is adorable and asleep on my lap and I DO NOT need a Lamancha buckling or a wether. 

@OneFineAcre and @Hens and Roos thanks for the prayers; they are very appreciated.  Hoping that the neighbor issue will be resolved this Friday and we can forget that it ever happened...why are some people so contentious? It is such a waste of energy and certainly doesn't make me feel good and not the way to be a neighbor.


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## Ferguson K

I'm close and my sister lives there.  Let me know if you end up with it. 

Sorry you're having trouble with your neighbors.


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## babsbag

Thanks @Ferguson K.

This is my BIG kitty Bug checking our the little goat.





And Pretty Purrly Pearl loves to lick milk off of his face, sleep under his light, and share my lap.


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## Mike CHS

All of the pictures are cute but that last one is awesome.  I sure hope everything works out for the best.


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## samssimonsays

Wow I missed all this! I hope things get resolved with the neighbors soon and you can move on. And that baby! Of course it's a buckling lol. Just don't make any decisions yet on him. The right home will fall through. The special ones are worth the wait.


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## frustratedearthmother

Ahhhhhh!


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## Hens and Roos

very cute, looks like you have a helper for him


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## CntryBoy777

It sure is nice he has some snuggle partners, he is so cute. I hope he pulls thru for ya. So sorry for the losses... I've been busy here with fencing, myself so I missed the events. If I was closer I'd sure talk to ya about him cause I'd sure take him.


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## babsbag

I have a friend that says that there is no way he is 20 days early and still alive...it just doesn't happen. 

All I can say is I know what I know. All but a few of my goats I have exact breeding dates on as I put the buck and doe together in a separate pen for a few hours and I always witnessed the breeding or I would write down that I never saw the deed done and then I would watch for a heat again in 18 days. She was bred on 11/8 with a due date of 4/7. I have stock panel fence between the pens and hot wire on each side. The goats don't get closer than about 2 feet from that fence. There is no way they did a fence breeding, plus she was obviously in standing heat when I witnessed the breeding. IDK what to say. If she had been bred the cycle before I saw her bred (from a miraculous flying buck) the kids would not be early, they would have been right on time. 

Howerver, his teeth are still not erupted and his hooves are just starting to get hard. His eyes were just little slits, his coat is very short, no body fat, it took him 48 hours to stand and more to start to walk. He doesn't run or jump yet and he still can't regulate his temperature very well. I won't say that he has trouble breathing but he is noisy. He eats about half of what other kids would eat. He is obviously early and I don't see any way he could have been conceived other than at the time I saw it.


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## frustratedearthmother

It happens.  Many years ago I had a similar issue.  Pygmy doe kidded triplets 3 weeks early.  Two made it - but they were much like yours.  No teeth, soft hooves, tiny appetite and sketchy respiration for several weeks.  I tube fed for the first few days as they had no suckle reflex.  Kept them with mom and after a few days I would hold them up to try to nurse and so that mom remembered that they were hers.   When they were stronger they actually learned to nurse and went on to be nice goats.


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## babsbag

Mom was totally clueless to start with; as if she had no idea what just happened. She was laying down pushing and reaching for the hay at the same time. Even if the kids could have stood up she was not interested at all, no calling, no cleaning, nothing. She was a good mom last year so I'll just chalk it up to lack of hormones and forgive her.  Fortunately she has milk, and quite a bit of it.


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## babsbag

The goats are looking at my calendar and laughing. I have 3 that are at day 152 today and they are laughing the hardest.  Another doe kidded triplets yesterday on day 149 and one that was "supposed to be first" went yesterday on day 155, right when I was leaving for town.  

4 years ago day 155 was the norm for my Alpines, anything before that I called early. Then I got LaManchas and moved the "normal" date to 150 days. Well it looks like the LaManchas are sticking to 150 and the Alpines are back to the 155. Geesh.

I also need to get CDT, etc done on another group of does.


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## norseofcourse

Fingers still crossed for the little one, sounds like he is hanging in there!


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## Latestarter

He's a real cutie... I hope he makes it. Just curious... If he does make it, and if he is used for breeding, do you think his being so premature would cause similar issues in the does he breeds?


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## babsbag

I don't think there will be any bearing on future kids at all. As long as he grows into those legs he should be good to go. His sire has the must amazing legs and feet in any goat I have ever owned, strong, straight, and closed toes. I guess the breeder named him Fortress for a reason.  His dam is not the top goat in my herd, near the bottom, and I am suspicious that she might have gotten tossed by a bully. She is in full milk so being early didn't stop that.

Tomorrow is the court for my DH's restraining order. I am praying the judge is wise and sees through this charade and then makes her pay our attorney fees in retribution for her lies and her un-neighborly attitude. I think that is only fair. She should be very happy that I am not the judge; I used to pitch in softball so I bet I can throw a book pretty well too.


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## NH homesteader

All goes well tomorrow


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## CntryBoy777

I don't think it will be even a "Contest", and it actually could be something that "Backfires" on them....but, they are too much of a "DumbA$$" to know when to stop the "Foolishness".
I used to Coach, and the oldest daughter was a pitcher, she wasn't fast, but she could move the ball and hit a spot....2 best pitches, drop-curve and change-up.....drop-curve would move 2' thru 4 planes and hit a spot.....


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## OneFineAcre

Well if they don't lift the restraining order and your husband is labeled some kind of thug then you might as well go over there and whoop their ass
I'll put in a $100 if you start a GoFundMe for his bail


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## babsbag

@CntryBoy777  I am glad I wasn't batting against your daughter. I played slow pitch for 10 years and didn't start until I was 30. All those years of street baseball growing up were good for something and I had a lot of fun playing as an adult.


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## norseofcourse

Hope all goes well in court


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## samssimonsays

Hoping all goes well!


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## Hens and Roos

Hope all goes well


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## babsbag

Court ended up being only to set another date.   It will at least another 3 weeks, maybe longer. Our attorney is going on vacation and the court is busy after that so no date set as of yet.  I am rounding up witnesses to prove that they are liars about other things. Such a waste of time, energy, and money I don't have.


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## misfitmorgan

Sorry Babs that sucks!!

I'm glad the kid is doing well and hope the does start to cooperate soon.


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## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear that its being dragged out!!


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## CntryBoy777

It kinda sounds like stepping on a piece of chewing gum and it is 90+° outside...when ya realize it no matter what ya do ya can't get the blame stuff off your shoe. Every step ya hear that pop-smack sound and ya have to pick your foot up with more force just to hear that sound again. It is just so Irritating.
Sorry that the courts and lawyers are such ungrateful, unthoughtful, and just plain "Full" of theirselves with no regard for their blatant "Robbery" of law abiding citizens. However, you have a "Cheering Section" right here to stand with ya and Encourage ya when it may seem that your back is against the wall. I was thinking that property line may be a fine place for a Beehive....


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## Goat Whisperer

Sorry to hear that Babs, but you never know... it could have been a blessing in disguise! Might be hard to see now, but you never know.

Hang in there!


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## babsbag

Our attorney told us when we first saw him that he was going on vacation and we were ok with that. The court can only set dates for 3 weeks in advance and the one day that they had available he had another trial to attend to. So court will meet again on 4/7 (we don't have to be there)  with an associate of the attorney's in attendance, to set a date. In the meantime we are rounding up witnesses about the fence and some other lies that have been told, and a character witness AGAINST them. Also taking pictures of the fence over the creek, showing maps with the true property lines, etc. The attorney is hoping that the judge will overstep the bounds of this trial and rule on the property line issue as well. In the meantime I will start fencing the land that is not contested and move to the contested one   in due time. Before court if I can, but it will be me with no help; I am not willing to drag any of my friends into the fray and DH can't. I am actually hoping that they call the sheriff and try to get them kicked off of MY land.


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## misfitmorgan

Babs is any of this anything you need? I can pick up and ship it only like 30 mins from me.
https://nmi.craigslist.org/grd/6028639050.html

He also has this one.
https://nmi.craigslist.org/grd/6039982839.html


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## babsbag

Thank you @misfitmorgan, I will keep that in mind. I think we are good for now.

The goats have decided that my calendar with kidding dates is truly only a suggestion and they don't have to abide by my dates at all.  So far with 20 kids born I have 8 does and 12 bucks. I have an Alpine that was due on 3/25 that has not had her kids and a LM due on 3/31 that had her kid today.  Why follow a calendar, right?  That would be too easy.

On the dairy construction front...DH told me to call the DeLaval dealer and set a date in early May for them to come out and do the final adjustments on the equipment and train me on how to use it. I am really excited about this as my DH is a procrastinator but when a date get sets one way or another he gets it done. I still have plenty to do to get certified but at least I will be able to milk in the dairy and that in its self is a huge time saver.  My next goal is to line up my vet to come and do TB and Brucellosis testing for the ladies and I need to start studying for the state test I have to take to legally be able to pasteurize milk. 

I want to play in the garden. I want to build a new fence around my garden and my back yard. I need to mow my weeds. I need to milk goats, clean the barn, finish a storage room, and I need a clone.


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## Latestarter

possibly several clones...


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## babsbag

And sleep is overrated.


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## babsbag

OK, you fencing pros.... @Bruce @Mike CHS @Baymule @greybeard @CntryBoy777  and anyone else. 

H braces... Does the horizontal post need to be the same diameter as the vertical ones? Please tell me it isn't so, those 6" peeler cores are HEAVY.  Also, is there any reason I can't buy 3/8" rebar and cut it and use it for the brace pins? I have 8 of these and those pins are $$$. I know I could cut and chisel, but not my idea of fun. 

Also, the diagonal wire...what size wire? And if I am not doing an X I am lost on the direction the wire should go.  Also, what do I tighten it with? Is there an option other than one of those fancy fence strainers? Can I use a turnbuckle or no?  This is a 4' no climb woven wire fence, not a high tensile, if it matters. 

Been fencing the new land, I hired a young neighbor to do it and he does good work, but I am building the H braces. DH is SICK SICK SICK (probably needs to be in a hospital) so I am on my own, totally, and I am exhausted. Those bags of concrete are heavy.


----------



## Baymule

Go to the fencing forum and ask questions. You'll be more likely to find the answers you need.

I didn't match the H horizontal brace to the size of the posts. I used everything from cedar to landscape timbers.


----------



## Latestarter

No, you don't need to use 6" as the cross beam for the H brace. A 4x4 would work just fine. I've seen folks use old T posts (including here on my property  not by me). Yes you can use rebar as the brace pin if you wish. Or if you don't feel like drilling through you can simply notch out a little on each vertical with a chain saw then slide the post into the notches. Then use a couple of screws to hold them in place. You can use whatever wire you wish for the braces... if it's thin wire, run a couple of courses, if thick, then you'd only need one or two. The high point on the brace wire is meant to keep the vertical with the most stress on it, vertical, so the high point would normally go where the gate is hinged, or at the start of a long run of fence. The X counters both directions.  Leave the wire a bit loose, then take a strong stick and thread it between the wires then start twisting it. as the wire twists, it will tighten. When it's as tight as you want it, turn the stick to go behind the horizontal brace to keep it from untwisting. turnbuckles are not recommended and you don't need to spend big $$ on strainers. You can go to the thread to see pictures of all this.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry... I should also say I hope hubby gets well and it isn't serious. Glad you have some help.


----------



## babsbag

I read all the threads I could find last night. Is there a picture of the "stick" behind the brace? I didn't see one but it would be helpful.


----------



## Latestarter

Courtesy of a @greybeard post. In this case you can see he used long bolts but you can use a thick stick, rebar, galvanized conduit (Cntryboy), or anything really... it just needs to act as the tensioner and be long enough to turn it up behind the cross beam to keep it from untwisting.


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## NH homesteader

I don't know anything about fencing (I am a terrible fencer!) but I wanted to say that I hope DH is ok. And I hope you get some major windfall soon or something because you both have been through the wringer lately


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## babsbag

Things with DH are not good. He finally let me take him to the ER. He is being admitted to ICU. Breathing, kidneys, rapid heart, possible blood clot. He is very sick


----------



## norseofcourse

Prayers for your DH and you...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh no!  Sending prayers and positive vibes.  Hope DH gets on the road to recovery quickly!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Babs, I am using 5" posts with 4" brace posts. I notched the post with a chainsaw for the brace post. The height of the brace is suppose to be 75% of fence height. I used barbless wire, which is 2 wires twisted, just like barbed wire without the barbs. The twist rods are galvanized conduit...cut in 2' lengths. I used 2" fence staples to hold them in place, resting on the brace post. To notch the post, make your bottom and top cuts on fence post 1/4 to 1/2"deep, then take the saw and use the tip to cut thru the post...if ya keep the top part of the tip along the top verticle cut and angle the chain bar at about a 45° angle it will cut thru the top first, then level out the blade and cut down to bottom verticle cut, the piece will come out without having to chisel or anything like that. You may have to touch it up, but does it fairly quickly. Put a couple of fence staples on post opposite the notch as guides for your wire angled down to bottom of the other post of the brace, tap a couple more staples run your wire around post completely....back thru guide staples...and back up to top of brace post and thru those guide staples again, bend wire back over the staple. Pull the slack out in reverse order and cut wire from spool....feed that end thru guide staples and bend, twist the ends together and snip. Insert twist rod and twist wires together and tighten until tight, ya should be able to strum it like a guitar string and hear a note. Check brace post to make sure it is squeezed tight, more twisting if it is loose. It doesn't matter which side of the brace post the twist rod is against, just on the side that holds the tension. Then take the 2" staple and drive it over rod into brace post. I wouldn't use rebar, too tough to work with, and ya'd have to drill hole larger than the rebar because of the ridges in it will fight being driven in. If ya do 'X' the wires, make sure that each set of wires are not crossed with the others...what is meant is...make sure that both wires to one side are not on the outside of the other set, otherwise you won't be able to twist them because the other set will be in-between those wires. I will get ya a better pic a little later, but this should help.... ...this should expand enough to give ya an idea. I will be back shortly with some better more detailed pics.


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## Hens and Roos

sending positive thoughts and prayers for you both


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## CntryBoy777

Oh my...so sorry about DH and really Hope they can find out what's going on with him....I know it has to be a very trying time for ya. Our Payers are certainly with you and him both. Be sure to keep us posted.


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## CntryBoy777

Here are those better pics....
. The focus here is on the notch. This next one is of the guide staples on top.... ..I drove these in before twisting with rods. I haven't twisted and snipped them yet. Here are the bottom guide staples.... ...After lacing the wire I drove a nail between the staples for added support. Now some pics of the wires... ...These are on the same side of the brace post, these next ones aren't.....just to show it doesn't really matter. Here is one from the top of the wires with my fingers separating the crossed wired so it will help to explain about not having your wires inside or outside those in opposite direction........you should be able to see the 2" staples over the twist rods and hammered into the brace post. If anything is unclear, just ask and will try to make understandable. All of mine are "X", but if only 1, then the post with pressure on it, should be the high side and the down side should be the post that pressure is being diverted to. It just depends on direction of stretching, that is placing the force on the posts. If it is a gate, then the hinge side should be "X". I know fencing isn't on your immediate thought right now, but wanted to answer ya for when ya are more settled and doing it.


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## OneFineAcre

Hoping for a speedy recovery for your husband.
You are in my prayers.


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## misfitmorgan

I hope your DH has a fast recovery or you at least know what is wrong soon.


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## NH homesteader

Hoping for a fast recovery for DH​


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## Mike CHS

I haven't been on but see you are getting plenty of advice.

Our thoughts and prayers for your DH also.


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## samssimonsays

Praying for your DH babs.


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## Baymule

I hope the doctors find out what is making your husband so sick so he can get the proper treatment. Prayers for you both.


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## promiseacres

Praying


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## ragdollcatlady

Sending hugs and prayers!  I hope he feels better soon!


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## Southern by choice

Wanted to update everyone- Keep praying. Babs DH is in ICU.
Please pray the Lord will send help as Babs is between the hospital which she really cannot leave and still has a bajillion goats kidding and needs to feed etc.

Pretty scary right now folks.


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## NH homesteader

Thanks SBC, I've been thinking of her today. 

 to Babs


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## norseofcourse

SBC thanks for the update... prayers for them and I wish I lived closer...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Sure wish I was closer...

Definitely praying for Babs and DH!


----------



## samssimonsays

definitely still praying.


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## Mike CHS

We will continue ours!


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## CntryBoy777

Sure haven't stopped here, either.....


----------



## babsbag

DH is a tiny bit better. He is off the heart meds and his kidneys are doing better but they are now keeping him sedated as he is very agitated and confused when he is awake. He is still on Oxygen, antibiotics, Insulin, and dextrose. His official diagnosis is diabetic ketoacidosis brought on by his cold/flu/virus. He got dehydrated and that also threw all his blood levels off. So now they are slowly getting sodium,calcium, and electrolytes in balance. Hopefully that will clear the confusion as well. After 20 years of being a diabetic you would have thought this would have been mentioned at some point in his education. It is very very serious and can lead to death quickly. It can be tested for at home with ketone strips and I had no idea. Thankfully I used to be an EMT and I picked up on some subtle things that just didn't sit right with me. If I had gone to bed instead of watching the late night news quite possibly he would have been dead in the morning, or at the least, in a coma. 

I didn't post this last week but my mother also just passed away a week ago last Sunday. To say I have been through the proverbial wringer is an understatement.

I am beyond exhausted. My son is here which helps, we play tag team at the ICU. We both got to leave tonight to sleep since they decided to keep him sedated. When I am home it usually isn't to sleep, it is to take care of goats. I have 34 kids on the ground so far, bucklings rule 2 to 1. I guess I was due for a buck year.



Prayers and good thoughts are certainly appreciated.


----------



## Hens and Roos




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## NH homesteader

So sorry about your mother. Glad to hear they know what is going on, and he is doing even a tiny bit better. I hope you get some rest and he continues to improve.


----------



## samssimonsays

So glad to hear things are looking up even a little bit. I am so sorry for your loss as well.  big hugs. I wish I lived closer, as I am sure most of us do, to help out at the dairy.


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## frustratedearthmother

I know how scary and BAD that diagnosis can be.  My DH had a really bad episode some years back.  I will never forget when the ER doc told me that his test results are "incompatible with life".  That'll shake you to the core. 

Anytime Dh's blood sugar gets high I really start pushing the fluids and electrolytes to him....it will help. 

So glad you got him help in time!

Prayers for you both!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh my, that is so much to endure, so suddenly. Really glad they have a determination on DH, and he responds well to the course of action taken. Certainly our prayers are with you and DH. Glad your son is there to be of assistance to ya.


----------



## norseofcourse

Glad he is improving, how scary...  good thing your son is able to help you out and be there for you, too.  Condolences on the loss of your mother as well


----------



## Baymule

You have been slammed from all directions-all at one time. Try to get some rest somewhere in there. You have to take care of yourself at least a little bit so you can keep this up until your husband gets better and you get him home.


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## misfitmorgan

So sorry to hear about your mom Babs. I am glad your DH is doing some what better and hope he only improves from here.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

So Sorry about your Mom Babs, and praying for your husband and yourself


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## babsbag

Things are crazy. Like a bad dream. He is doing better with some stuff and worse with others. Congestive heart failure is being kept a bay.  Barely  

Thank you for all the support and prayers.


----------



## samssimonsays




----------



## OneFineAcre

I'm very sorry for the loss of your mother, and your husbands health issues. 
I will continue to pray for you and your family.


----------



## babsbag

DH is doing much much better. He is on a low flow o2. He got to have breakfast. Only IV is potassium chloride. Some pain when coughing but being controlled with Norco when needed   Getting out of ICU today


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## frustratedearthmother

Good news for sure!    So glad he's on the mend, but I do remember it taking my DH a good long time to get his strength back.  DKA is bad stuff.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad to hear that he is starting to feel better!!


----------



## CntryBoy777

That is absolutely Great to hear, and I know it is some relief to you. Hopefully, ya will be able to get a bit of rest now, I know ya are just so worn out you are probably numb. Prayers are continuing for ya, but so is Thanks and Praise.


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## Baymule

Glad that your husband is improving and can get out of ICU. Please take care of yourself, you must be frazzled with all that you have had to do. When you get your husband home, you both need the rest.


----------



## babsbag

When he gets home he has to sit in a chair and supervise the people I am going to hire to finish the dairy. 

I  trying to wrap my head around God's timing and plan but having a tough time with that.


----------



## Baymule

babsbag said:


> I  trying to wrap my head around God's timing and plan but having a tough time with that.



It does make you wonder why sometimes.....


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## OneFineAcre

There is an old saying that God only gives us what we can bare
I told Maurine about your situation today and asked her to pray for you
I think God would listen to her more than me


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> There is an old saying that God only gives us what we can bare
> I told Maurine about your situation today and asked her to pray for you
> I think God would listen to her more than me


God hears EVERY earnest prayer.


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## ragdollcatlady

Tell DH we are so happy he is on the mend!


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## babsbag

He is officially out of ICU.   This has been a week that I don't care to repeat and I thank all of your for the good thoughts and prayers. 

@OneFineAcre I am glad that you told Maurine as I will take all the prayers that I can get but I bet that yours work just as good as hers. 

A week ago I was literally a month away from being able to milk in the dairy and probably 2-3 months away from being certified and now  

I can do most of the plumbing on my own and all of it with a little guidance. I can run a gas line, I can run a PVC vacuum line, I can get someone to finish leveling the trailers, and I can finish the stainless piping for the wash line. I cannot do the electrical and the plans for the electrical are in DH's head. I am not sure how I hire someone to do a job that I can't explain. There are no written plans to look at, there is only equipment and pictures from its previously installed location. This is going to be tough.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Such good news!!  So glad he's making improvements! 



babsbag said:


> This is going to be tough.


When the going gets tough - the tough get going!   Hopefully you can get some good help along the way.


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## babsbag

Alondra and Mia have decided that they are both dominant and neither will relinquish their place. The fights have been frequent and brutal and I have no way to keep them apart. So rather than deal with a dead dog I have decided to find Alondra a new home. I was really hoping that she would let Mia rule but she won't and she is fierce. I love this dog to pieces and she has been great with the goats but I would be devastated if harm came to her or Mia. I am not equipped to deal with this right now.    Mia was a hard nut to crack, Alondra has been easy and I think she will adjust to a new home more readily than Mia. Plus Alondra is terrified of my pasture so I am hoping a new pasture will remove that anxiety.


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## Hens and Roos

Sorry to hear that your girls aren't getting along maybe @Latestarter needs a helper


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## misfitmorgan

Very glad your DH is better Babs!!


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## samssimonsays

So happy to hear about your DH!!!! 

But I am so sorry to hear about the girls. I would take a "helper" in a heartbeat but we are not set up for that and plan to redo everything we have now....


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## babsbag

She is a good girl. She respects the goats and does not chase the babies. She gets a little too loving with the new babies but once she has welcomed them with slobbers and paw prints she is very very good with them.  She may challenge fences. But then again maybe not. She does not bark at the wind or falling stars and that is nice but when she does bark it is loud and fierce. She will make someone an awesome LGD 

I was going to put her with my chickens when I bought her but that never happened. DH didn't like the idea of one dog alone with the birds as she would be lonely. It is true that a dog in that pen would have little human contact. Probably not the best place for a pup. 

I will miss her smile and kisses.


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## Latestarter

First Babs, I'm sorry on my fence post answer I missed that your DH was in ICU  I'm so glad that prayer was answered for him and you and that he is recovering.   I hope there was no permanent damage done and that he soon has a full recovery. So sorry that you lost your mom.  As we get older it seems those around us seem to disappear much more frequently and each loss takes a bit away from us. Too soon it will be our time to go and take a bit from others.  

If you didn't try in the past to keep your plate full to overflowing I'd expect you to have much more difficulty with your present situation. I sure hope you can push through the present issues and get the things accomplished that you've been working toward. Perhaps your DH can draw out a rough sketch for the electrician while he's at rest in his chair? It shouldn't be too taxing & I'm sure he'll be grateful to have something to do so as to not go stir crazy.

Though I'd love to have a mentor/partner for Mel, I'm sorta thankful that I didn't read of your dog dominance issue till AFTER I just returned from Las Vegas...  It would have been great to get out there and meet you, but I don't know how the drive back would have gone with two huge dogs in the back seat of the truck, and especially since they would have just met and not know each other. Might have made for a very interesting ride though... Like I need more of those, right? As big as Mel is, I actually thought about putting the bed cage I built back in and letting Mel ride back there during the trip.

Hope your rough seas calm soon so you can continue with smooth sailing.


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## NH homesteader

for everything you've been through lately. I'm so glad to hear your husband is out of ICU! And sorry to hear you have to part with your girl. If I could afford to, I would ship her here, accompanied by a mini alpine buck of course


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## babsbag

@NH homesteader I have three nice F2 mini alpine bucks right now and two F1s...which one do you want?   I am having a buck year all the way.   

My DH has been transferred to a hospital three hours away...insurance crap. This is the HMO that said he had a virus and should just go home. Also the HMO that wanted to amputate his foot 4 years ago. (time for an insurance change come Oct. )

He is still on O2, antibiotics, breathing treatments, and meds for removing fluid off of his heart. He has bacterial pneumonia for starters, and now the new doctor is saying possibly viral as well but I think that they are just covering their butts as that is what they diagnosed him with 4 days before I took him to the ER. Add to that being an out of control type II diabetic and it doesn't make for a good time. The kidneys are functioning again, the cough is better (but they want him to cough), but he is back on meds for congestive heart failure which is frightening. He was off of it for 3 days.  

I will be going to see him tonight, mostly to make sure they are reading his records from the last 10 days and not giving him things that will damage kidneys, like NSAIDs.  I don't trust them. I also want to make sure he is getting respiratory therapy and physical therapy. He doesn't do well with asking questions and I on the other hand have only blind faith in God...everyone else has to prove themselves. 

Continued prayers are appreciated as we aren't out of this quite yet. Tomorrow is my mom's funeral too, going to be a rough day.


----------



## Latestarter

Hang in there best you can.


----------



## Hens and Roos

sending strength and prayers your way for your family


----------



## OneFineAcre




----------



## TAH

!


----------



## samssimonsays




----------



## NH homesteader

Oh heck I'd take any of them!  There are literally no minis in New England not related to my girls, unless someone has them stashed away and not on the internet!


 to you and DH


----------



## norseofcourse

keeping you both in my thoughts...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

So sorry you and DH are still facing such a challenge.  Three hours away is ridiculous!    Sending prayers and positive thoughts.


----------



## Mike CHS

Adding all of our thoughts and prayers that DH gets back to normal and you can continue to manage through all of the chaos.


----------



## Ferguson K

Just now seeing all of this.

You will be in my prayers. Speedy recovery for your DH and strength for you. The serenity will follow.


----------



## ragdollcatlady




----------



## babsbag

Only 3 more does to freshen this month, all due in the next 4 or 5 days.  One of them is my LM that was sick with the ear infection and cough about 5 months ago. I honestly thought that she didn't settle but Bio-Pryn says differently. However, looking at her I would say that I was right. No udder, no baby bump, nada. It is always possible that I wrote down a date and then bred her again later, but I honestly don't remember that being the case. 

One of the other two may not be bred as well, but she was bred for Mini LMs so maybe she is just small. 

The third one is a doe that hadn't settled for the last 4 or 5 years. I thought she look pregnant and Bio-Pryn confirmed it.  I am excited about her kids, but with my boy year (2:1) she will probably give me all boys but twin doelings would be really nice. 

I have one due in May and 3 in June and then I am done. I have only one doe with problems. I got home and one kid on the ground dead and I pulled another dead kid. I was able to foster my preemie bottle baby on to her as well as a kid  from a doe that had just had triplets. That doe has 1/2 an udder so trips were going to be a stretch. 

So far I have 15 does and 30 bucklings.  That is a lot of kids.


----------



## Hens and Roos

How's your preemie doing?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Holy Cow - that is a WHOLE lotta kids!  Hope things are settling down for you and really hope DH is on the road to improvement.


----------



## babsbag

@Hens and Roos My preemie kid is doing great. He is the sweetest thing ever and I have no idea what to do with him. I didn't get him disbudded as I wasn't sure he was up to the stress and by the time I knew that he would be ok the horns were too big to do myself. I haven't been disbudding any bucklings this year as they are all going to a buyer that doesn't care (probably for meat) but this guy isn't going to go to him. 

The buckling's name is JC, my husband named him Joe Camel.  I may take him to the vet next week and pay her to do them. She can do them when they are bigger. I have to find him a pet home somewhere. If I don't he can just live with my does...what's one more mouth to feed at this point?


----------



## babsbag

Back to fencing. I am ready to put the wire on the h-braces. What is an easy way to make the loop on the wire? I don't have a crimping tool. While looking at ways to crimp the wire I came across this.  

@Latestarter and @CntryBoy777 Isn't this opposite of what you said? I found it done the way of the picture in another publication as well.


----------



## CntryBoy777

When ya start the wire ya have to cut enough verticle wire to allow ya to wrap it around the post and back to the fence to attach it. I just wind in 5-6 times, I don't have a crimper or the sleeves. The pic is opposite of what I thought I understood about it, glad that I used a "X" then, and sorry to have confused the issue. I'm at this step with my fencing too, and plan on getting some up today myself.
I'm sure glad that things have settled down for ya and DH is much better....ya sure have your hands Full and wish I was close enough to lend ya a hand. It sounds like ya have little ones Everywhere there.


----------



## Latestarter

Hey Babs... that picture is exactly what I had described... the arrows are pointing to the fencing that will be pulling against the first post (A). the wire high end goes on the side of the "H" where the weight of pull will be; (B). The wire NOT shown in that picture with the high side at (A) would be to counter the pull of the weight of a gate attached to that post.

That picture is showing a tensioner to pull the wiring tight. That's expensive and not really necessary, but by all means can be used if you so desire. If you have crimping sleeves, you can run the wire around the posts and back to each other, feed the wire through the sleeve in opposite directions, then crimp the sleeve. 





Alternately, you can just bend each wire back on itself over the opposing wire and then twist each end back around itself Think locking index fingers. #3 in the pic below.



This will weaken the wire somewhat at the bend point, but since there will be no real "load" on the wire, it won't be a critical issue.

Then place your stick, bolt, rebar, conduit, whatever you have between the two sides and start twisting it to tighten it.


----------



## babsbag

I think DH is coming home today. 

I get in on the fencing now,  I just understood it wrong. I am not going to use a tensioner, as I have 6 of these to do, too much money.  I have the horizontal brace on three of them and will do the others this week IF I get some days with no rain. If I can just twist the wire back on itself that makes sense too. I am sure once I get started on the wire it will all make more sense, hands on is the best for me.  I am anxious to get this fenced so the goats can gorge themselves on all the new growth of poison oak.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> I think DH is coming home today.



WooHoo!  so glad to hear good news!


----------



## ragdollcatlady

About your premie LM... I asked our 4H kid that has LMs if they are going to be needing a new buck this year but they didn't seem interested. Is he pure LM? Registered? I think one of the other families in our area has some as well....


----------



## babsbag

He is a purebred and can be registered.  I would give him to anyone that wants him as long as he isn't going for food. I will get him disbudded too.  I will get info on sire and dam if you find anyone that is interested. 

My doe that didn't look pregnant delivered a doeling today. Her udder went "bam" overnight and along came a kid.


----------



## babsbag

DH is home and doing well. He is now on a low sodium diet as well as diabetic diet. Avoiding sodium is harder than avoiding sugar.


----------



## NH homesteader

Glad he's home!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Great news!  You are right - low sodium is a ... challenge!  So glad he's on the mend!


----------



## TAH

So Glad your DH is home! Hope he makes a full recovery soon!


----------



## CntryBoy777

That's really good to hear Babs. I'm suppose to be on a low fat, low sodium diet myself. However, if I were to stick with it I'd starve to death, literally. I have cut back of the sodium, because my body chemistry has changed and salty things make my mouth burn for hrs after eating just a few chips. I do try to watch and control most of my diet, but I have never been one to go hungry for very long.
Congrats on another addition, too!!....I know DH is certainly glad to get back Home....hospitals are no place to get any rest at all.


----------



## Latestarter

Grats on the unexpected doeling! Really happy to hear that DH is home and doing better. Man... give up salt AND sugar?!  That eliminates about 80% of the items I consider "food" and most of my go-to items. Might as well just become a vegan   Honest, I didn't say/mean that in a vulgar way... I just have no idea how those folks survive. I need my meat, and meat needs salt. And after eating copious amounts of meat, one absolutely NEEDS something sweet and sugary... to counteract the salt don'tcha know...   Hope things smooth out for you as I recall there are a few more hoops in your immediate future that you'll need to jump through.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Glad he's home and congrats on the doeling!


----------



## goatgurl

babs I just spent some time catching up with your comings and goings.  first of all i'm so glad DH is at home and doing better.  life is always a challenge, right.  just keep on keeping on kiddo, you are both my prayers.


----------



## babsbag

Well my Alpine doe, Mocha, that hasn't settled in 4 years got bred this year. Every year I throw her in with the bucks every time she is in heat just to keep her quiet and never worry about which buck breeds her as I know she won't settle.  She comes into milk every summer without being bred so she was a keeper. 

I really wanted a doeling from her to carry on the line. She kidded today and she got the girl memo...HOWEVER...she DID NOT get the alpine memo as she gave me a 50/50 LaMancha doeling.   Better than a LaMancha buckling but it won't do much to carry on her line.  But she should milk to beat the band when she grows up.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Glad you got your doe, but sorry it wasn't exactly what you wanted.   Mother Nature sure doesn't always cooperate with us, does she?


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is just the life of a farmer....ya never seem to get exactly what ya wished for, but ya always make it work for ya...


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm glad things are going better for you Babs!

congrats on some does, glad your DH is doing better.


----------



## babsbag

My LGD, Sigueme, is missing tonight. I let the goats and dogs into the new land and as the goats cleared the fence line Sig found a gap and out she went.  We didn't know where she was, figured she was on the land somewhere so DH told me to get the shotgun and fire it and she would come to the barn...she is terrified of guns. So I did as he suggested and then I saw her running down our road full speed ahead. She did not head for the barn, she took off. I searched for hours and no Sig. Please pray that she comes home and stays away from coyotes and off of the highway.


----------



## ragdollcatlady




----------



## TAH

Hope you find her soon!!


----------



## samssimonsays

Oh no! I am so so sorry! Many prayers that she comes home soon. I know the sinking feeling of them being missing and unfortunately, I also know the pain that comes with when they get hit by a car.


----------



## Mike CHS

I really hope she finds her way home safe.


----------



## NH homesteader

I hope you find her safe soon.


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## CntryBoy777

Oh no Babs, hope she comes home by this morning.


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## norseofcourse

Adding my best thoughts that she comes home safely!


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## Latestarter

Along with everyone else, hoping everything works out and she returns unscathed.


----------



## misfitmorgan

And i thought i was having a string of bad luck! I hope you find her or she comes home babs


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I am so sorry!     Hopefully she'll return. 

Before I got my fence extended and Cowboy would jump out I would have to take Gracie out to find him.  He and Gracie are best buds so I'd put her on a leash and walk down the road to where he was - he'd see her and come to her and I could get him.  Any chance you could walk one of the other dogs in the direction you saw her go and possibly get her attention?   Hopefully she just found a good hiding place and didn't just keep running...    Grasping at straws here I know - but maybe, just maybe ...?


----------



## Southern by choice

Praying for you Babs!


----------



## babsbag

She is home. !!!!!!

After a pretty much sleepless night I got up at daybreak and headed out again. I started down our road/driveway and there she was...headed AWAY from the barn and house. I called her, and after that long "LGD pause...should I or shouldn't I ?" she decided that she would come to me. So glad that she is home, and she was happy to see her breakfast. Now to fix the fence. 

I forgot to mention that Mia got bit by a rattlesnake yesterday too.   Her head is pretty swollen but she seems fine. It got her right on the tip of the nose, one little fang mark.  I will be getting her some antibiotics.


----------



## samssimonsays

Oh thank goodness!!!!! I am so glad she is home safe and sound! 

I hope Mia's swelling goes down soon!


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## frustratedearthmother

Woohoo!  Such good news!  Poor Mia - hope she gets better quickly and that she learned a good lesson!


----------



## babsbag

I had my BCs "trained" by a rattlesnake aversion trainer 9 years ago. It should be refreshed every year but never did it. 2 years ago there was a snake in the kennel and they alerted me and wouldn't enter the kennel, I really think that after all of those years they still remembered as that isn't typically their MO. Just a few days ago I sent an email to the same people asking about doing a refresher for them and training the LGDs. I just had a feeling that this year was going to be bad for snakes.


----------



## Latestarter

Jeeze... catch one break and something else "breaks"... So glad you have Sigume back without major issue. Now I hope that Mia recovers from her little altercation. Did you find the culprit? Wonder if Mia killed it after it bit her.


----------



## babsbag

I can only hope she killed it but I doubt it.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh what Great news!!....tho, poor Mia and her encounter. All that water has animals looking for Higher ground and will definitely increase the numbers. We face the same thing with high water around here, when the Mississippi River leaves the banks. Sure hope she does okay, and Sigume stays home for ya.


----------



## babsbag

Looks like Francis got bit too. I noticed flies on his nose which made me check out why and found two fang marks about 3/8 apart.  No swelling so assuming a dry bite but I think I still have to be concerned about infection.


----------



## TAH

So glad she came home!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh man, poor Francis.  That's just a little bit (ok a lot) scary knowing that snake is hanging around.  I'm guessing if they killed it you'd find it?  My dogs always leave any thing they get as a trophy for me to find - or step on.


----------



## Latestarter

Wow... and the hits just keep on coming... Hope Francis is OK and he'll prob benefit from some antibiotics as well as Mia. Hope you find the snake and "pay it back". I like snakes (even the poisonous kinds) and won't kill them unless they are a real and present danger to me or my animals/people.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad to hear that your DH is home!  Sorry to hear about your dogs- hope they are ok!


----------



## Southern by choice

Gosh- we never get to talk anymore... so many things going on.... 
I'll take my copperheads over your rattlers anyday!  Very scary! 
Hope you get some down time to rest abit!


----------



## BlessedWithGoats




----------



## babsbag

I have nothing against snakes but rattlesnakes have no place in my world. I have had them in my hay, twice, and the hay was on a platform 12" off of the ground. I have had them bite Sigueme and a puppy and now Mia and Francis. I have had them coiled, and ready to strike, in the kennel. Too many close and not so close encounters. I have a friend that had a kid (goat) bit last week so I am waiting for that. We have killed three on the new land and obviously there are more. I usually see on or two a year, but so far this year it has been 6. As the new property get eaten down by the goats I am sure the snakes will move on, but my concern is that they will move on to the direction of my garden or orchard. I am thinking of looking for a passel of guineas and turning them loose on the property.  Or turkeys.  I am overrun by ground squirrels so why aren't the snakes keeping them under control, that is their only useful purpose?


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Try a few muscovy ducks.... these guys catch and eat mice and shouldn't think twice about snakes, not sure about larger snakes, but smaller ones for sure. They love going after quick moving dinners and will snatch the critters that slip away from the cats if they can. 

Or try a few geese. Geese won't eat them, but they should alert to something like that. They are quite the tattletales of the animal world. Plus they will eat the grasses and weeds down that the goats are less fond of.


----------



## babsbag

I would love some geese but I have to convince my dogs that geese are not on the menu.


----------



## Mike CHS

babsbag said:


> I would love some geese but I have to convince my dogs that geese are not on the menu.



I can relate to that.  For now I'm happy that our LGD decided to really be an LGD.


----------



## babsbag

I was so proud of Mia and Alondra yesterday. They DID NOT eat a baby turkey.   I have a wild hen that has been sitting for 28 days (the eggs hatched) and I have been guarding her nest, staying our of her way, and putting the fence around her nest so she is on the outside of the new goat pen. I noticed that the eggs had hatched and she was gone so I did some weed eating and running of hot wire to keep LGD in and didn't worry about scaring her anymore.

A few hours later I saw her with no chicks, but I could hear little chirps everywhere. So I rounded up the goats and dogs and moved them out of the new property and that was when a little poult comes walking up the fence. Mia and Alondra give it that "what are you" inquisitive stare and Mia laid down and the little thing comes walking right through the fence and in between her paws. Of course I yelled the leave command which means NOTHING to my LGDs but they didn't hurt it, I was shocked. The BCs would have had turkey snack in a flash.  I rescued the baby and walked out to where I could see the hen. She had at least 7 other poults with her. I put the little one down and it made a bee line dash to mama as fast as it could. I love a happy ending. 

Today Mia and Alondra decided to sit in the poison oak. The bush is probably 10 x 10 and they climbed right into the middle and sat down. Don't ask me why as I have no idea but that explains the snake bite.  Guess I had better start drinking that goat's milk as they are now walking carriers of poison oak for at least the next 2 weeks.


----------



## Latestarter

Way to go Alondra and Mia!  Glad you were able to rescue that (very lucky!) poult  Not sure why that explains the snake bite... But maybe it's the best shade to get out of the heat?


----------



## babsbag

This time of year as it gets warmer the rattlesnakes will be in the dense undisturbed underbrush and that poison oak fits to a "T". In the winter they will be in the same places, burrowed under years worth of decomposed branches and leaves.  Parts of this land has been virtually untouched, it is as nature grew it. I am counting on the goats to limb and trim it and make it not so inviting to the snakes. I should have done before and after pictures of the land. 

This is what a bunch of contented goats looks like after browsing for 8 hours. They barely got up for their alfalfa dinner. I don't think I have ever seen them this satisfied and lazy.


----------



## Southern by choice

Love this picture! 

Looks like the families are grouped together!

I still see way too many ears though!


----------



## Latestarter

WOW... look at all them goats! They sure do look quite content. You know, you never did update on the status of DH with respect to the restraining order/court/law/neighbor and what all happened with all that BS... The fact that you've got the dogs and goats over on the property leads me to believe that it all worked out in your favor, though I'm sure it was time consuming, aggravating, and needlessly expensive.


----------



## babsbag

@Latestarter  the court date was postponed while DH was in the hospital, the date is set for 5/24.  The goats are on part of the land, the area on the other side of the road is still contested. The hearing will settle the restraining order but probably won't settle the dispute on the land. But I'll cross that bridge after the hearing. 

@Southern by choice  They definitely do lounge in family groups; one of the things I love about dam raised kids...the ONLY thing I love...  There are a lot of ears, and a lot of boys out there.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Just caught up with you.
Glad your DH is home and your dogs are all OK.

As to dam raised kids, we have our first completely bottle raised babies this year.
Will never do it, unless we have too.
I think bottle babies are obnoxious.
You can't open the gate without them crawling all on you.

I hope things go smoothly for you for a while.


----------



## babsbag

@OneFineAcre  Do you have any problems taming down the kids that are dam raised? Somewhere there has to be a happy middle ground and I sure haven't found it.  They either love me or hate me and I agree that BBs can be obnoxious.

I have scheduled the installer for DeLaval dairy equipment to be at my place the first week in June to fine tune all of the milking equipment. DH is back to work during the week and now I need him to step it up on the weekends too. Please pray that this gets done, I can't milk all these goats by hand and I have the buyer of the kids coming in June as well.  What have I done???    But my DH works best with a deadline so I made one for him.


----------



## Mike CHS

Nothing like a no pressure situation in a relaxing retirement.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Keeping  that everything goes as planned!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Glad things have settled down a bit for ya, and the goats are enjoying the "Fruits" of your labor and hard work, getting the fencing up for them. Amazing about the turkeys and hope they hang around for ya. It is sure good to hear that DH is getting more back into the swing of things and continues to improve. I'm sure the equipment will get worked out and the milk will be flowing before ya know it. I really don't know how ya tend to it all....sure does Amaze me tho. Hope it all gets settled on the 24th for ya....just a needless PITA.


----------



## Hens and Roos

that all goes smoothly


----------



## Baymule

Just got caught up. I am glad that your husband has improved and is doing better. That was a close call.

I give my dogs Benadryl and baby aspirin when they get snake bit. So far, only copperheads, haven't seen any rattlesnakes here-yet.

Tomorrow is court day. We are all praying it goes your way and your horrible neighbors have to back off.


----------



## dejavoodoo114

I have been reading through this the past couple of days. I can't believe your neighbors! The story popped in my head when we were complaining about our neighbors and I told DH. We are both grateful our neighbors, while annoying and somewhat rude/inconsiderate, are nothing like yours! Good luck and I look forward to hearing about the rest of your journey!


----------



## Mike CHS

I think I would be on pins and needles with the history you have with the neighbors.  At least you have done your homework.


----------



## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> @OneFineAcre  Do you have any problems taming down the kids that are dam raised? Somewhere there has to be a happy middle ground and I sure haven't found it.  They either love me or hate me and I agree that BBs can be obnoxious.
> 
> I have scheduled the installer for DeLaval dairy equipment to be at my place the first week in June to fine tune all of the milking equipment. DH is back to work during the week and now I need him to step it up on the weekends too. Please pray that this gets done, I can't milk all these goats by hand and I have the buyer of the kids coming in June as well.  What have I done???    But my DH works best with a deadline so I made one for him.



I just saw this.
We just try to leave them in the kidding stall longer than we used to and spend time with them.
Some are friendlier than others.
Seems most come around by the time they have kids.
And then some are friendly and some just tolerate you.
I'm ok with them tolerating me as long as I don't have to chase them when I need to do something like trim hooves.
Our milk stand is not inside our fence.  Even the ones who aren't necessarily friendly we can open the gate and they run and jump on the milk stand. Well maybe all except Cookie.


----------



## babsbag

The restraining order was dismissed. 

As a witness I didn't get to hear the testimony of anybody that went before me, and I was last. However I guess a lot of things were said and lied about and it was pretty obvious. They accused us of driving slowly past their house and waving and they took a picture...it wasn't our car. They accused DH of throwing nails in their horse's pen (way back in Jan) which of course he didn't do. The judge said it had no bearing on this case. He said that there was no evidence that DH cut the fence but that there is evidence that it was washed out by a storm and that if we had cut the fence it was to stop flooding and it was justified. The judge said that maybe there was a heated discussion, and maybe there wasn't but having an argument does not necessitate a restraining order.  So all in all it was a good deal, but a long and expensive one...3 hours and $2500.00

The attorney will now file a petition for our expenses to be paid by the accuser. And now we get to build a fence...well, in a few months. I am hoping that there will be no more problems with them. Prior to this we had basically no contact with them, a "hello" now and then but certainly no friendship or even a relationship of any kind. I liked it that way. You mind your business and I'll mind mine and I'll be a "neighbor" in an emergency or a time of need, pretty simple, right?  I don't want or need a long term feud. 

Back to focusing on the dairy.


----------



## Latestarter

So there still hasn't been any solution to the property line dispute? or the fact that they've been pulling up the survey stakes? or is all that part of another court deal?


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad to hear the restraining order was dismissed! 

Hope you can get the rest figured out!


----------



## Mini Horses

OneFineAcre said:


> We just try to leave them in the kidding stall longer than we used to and spend time with them.
> Some are friendlier than others.



Same here.  I do imprint them as day or two olds, that helps.  This year I had a bottle baby that lived with the herd, came over for bottle.  He had been imprinted.   In the end he was friendly enough to be handled and could have turned into a nuisance if allowed    but, not afraid of handling.   Had it been a doe, I would have handled more...bucks were sold.

Glad restraining order cleared up.    It's amazing what some will do instead of talking NICELY and working it out, especially when it isn't ever going to go in their favor.  Cost me thousands to defend a path on my own property.   Costly and emotionally taxing.  Ten years later, all now fine.  Results?  Same as I suggested 10 years before.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Great news


----------



## dejavoodoo114

That is great news @babsbag! Very glad to hear. Hopefully they will be forced to pay attorney's fees and will learn to mind their own business on their own land!


----------



## babsbag

When I get ready to move the fence I will send them a registered letter and inform the local Sheriff. I have already filed reports on the pins being removed and was told that I can ask for civil protection if needed.  We have pictures that show the survey stakes with flagging and we can line them up with the "lay of land" and be really really close and we will just fence inside. If they want to contest it that they will have to pay for the survey, not me.  

The surveyor was in court and he said that the last time he was here the pins were still in place but they had been driven in quite deep. We rented a metal detector this time and still couldn't find them. The t-post we drove in and the wooden stakes were obviously gone. I don't plan on hiring another survey, I will just go by the pictures. 

It was funny that they claimed that they have no guns and yet they told the surveyor that "it was a good thing you identified yourself or you would have been met with "sixes" flying over your head." The surveyor took it to mean 306 bullets. Why make a threat like that if you don't own a gun?

The accuser wanted to know why we didn't just come and talk to them...I thought that is what we did. 

On to bigger and better things and I can go claim our guns again.  


I am supposed to have a dairy equipment installer here in about two weeks to make the final adjustments on the milking equipment and the list is still a mile long. We have not set a date, other than the first week in June...really hoping that that is the first FULL week in June and NOT June 1st or 2nd.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Way to Go!!...I didn't think they had a leg to stand on, and Hope ya can recoup some of the expenses anyway. Sounds like milk will be Flowing in just a couple of wks....
Been a long winding road, but ya Overcame all the Obstacles and even the A**es, too. It is so well Deserved and certainly wish ya the very Best....


----------



## Baymule

This is good news. I am happy you can put this part behind you. And yes, do get some back up when you build the fence.


----------



## babsbag

This is MY list for the weekend.  (DH has his own)

Saturday

clean house
wash sheets for guest room
clean branches out of orchard
plant garden
Work on trench for gas line
move dirt away from stumps that are to be ground.
fix drip hose I hit with chainsaw
cut some tree trunks low enough to grind

Sunday

rent stump grinder
wait for my sons and DIL to come for visit/work party
plant the garden that probably didn't get done on Sat.
Wash those sheets that probably didn't get washed on Sat.  

watch son grind stumps so I can tell him where they are. 

repair drip tubing we most likely tore up with grinder
make ice cream and maybe blackberry cobbler

Monday

finish stumps
put sand in trench for gas line.
run water line for hot water heater.
Have sons move some sliding glass doors we have stored for a someday greenhouse
everything else I forgot

Tuesday

return trencher
relax while gas line is installed
cover gas line
Be glad it isn't Saturday again. 

Anybody want to come and help?


----------



## dejavoodoo114

I just love how realistic your list is!  

When I was going through your thread, the old photos didn't show up anymore. You should post some more of all the work you have done!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'd come help....while ya are out doing...I'd wash those darn sheets for ya since they aren't high enough on the priority list to get done the first day. Plus, with the heat ya have there I wouldn't be able to breathe outside to do work....and I wouldn't mind making the ice cream and cobbler for ya too. Though, we would have to discuss the definition of cobbler, because I've found that many have a different definition of it than mine......


----------



## babsbag

as of 6:15 PM

clean house
wash sheets for guest room
clean branches out of orchard
plant garden
Work on trench for gas line
move dirt away from stumps that are to be ground.
fix drip hose I hit with chainsaw
cut some tree trunks low enough to grind
Went to grocery store and hardware store too.


----------



## Mike CHS

That works.  I start a to-do list every day and usually if I get 2 or 3 I figure it's a winner.  I start one thing and see another that is more important so the list gets change.  

You got most of yours.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I ran out of pencil, paper, and Erasers for mine.....
Still sounds like a Full day to me babs, especially with your tongue hanging out from the Heat....


----------



## babsbag

@CntryBoy777  Thanks for the offer, I'd accept if you weren't so far away.  What is your idea of cobbler?

9:45 and I'm not done yet. Working on the house. I fixed the drip line and the chainsaw needs a chain. File I bought for that chain is it too big...teach me to shop at the 'new' Stihl dealer that knows nothing.  I had all the chain numbers with me too.   

Plants are sitting in the garden instead of the front porch...getting closer.


----------



## Latestarter

I'm sure you know I'd be there to help if it were possible. It's how I roll... Glad you got quite a bit done and there's yeah, there's always more. Also glad you'll have help there over the weekend. I don't think I'd mind working in your heat as much as I mind working in mine... combination of the fact I'd be helping someone else, and the fact that you don't have the humidity I have here.


----------



## babsbag

Our heat is WONDERFUL compared to what I experienced in Alabama in July and Oct.  I'll take mine any day.

AS of 1:30 AM so technically Sunday. 

clean house
wash sheets for guest room
clean branches out of orchard
plant garden
Work on trench for gas line
move dirt away from stumps that are to be ground
fix drip hose I hit with chainsaw
cut some tree trunks low enough to grind

Add catch PITA doe that was in labor and deliver two kids. Geesh, I can't catch a break.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Holy cow!  Babs, there is this thing called "sleep" that most doctors recommend for a long and happy life!  Don't know how you're doing it...but take care of yourself!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Okay, ya take the berries and put them in an oven safe, stove top safe pan....Mom always used an enameled tin bowl...amount of berries depends on size of pan...put sugar on the berries. Make biscuit dough, put pan on low/med heat and bring to a slow boil, cut some of the dough into strips, then into pcs....like dumplins for chicken and dumplins....place in the berries and cook the dumplins. As they are cooking take and roll out remaining dough as a cover for the pan, place on top....top dough with pats of butter and sugar.....put in preheated oven at 350/375° and bake until top is as golden as ya prefer. Remove from oven and let cool to eating temp. Top with cream, ice cream, or just by itself. It can be done without berries, and with just the juice....if the seeds are not preferred. I love the dumplins, so the more the better. Tho, many just prefer a few........


----------



## frustratedearthmother

That sounds delish!


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is one of my absolute Favorites. Peaches are good too....cooked the same way, but have to add a touch of cinnamon.


----------



## babsbag

@CntryBoy777  That sounds really really good. Being that I have never made dumplings I'm not sure how adventurous I am but maybe...I'll let you know.  I usually cook some berries with some sugar and then transfer it to a casserole dish, put sweet biscuits (shortbread really) on top and bake it.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Mom's biscuit dough recipe...2cups All purpose flour
3tsp Baking Powder
1/2 cup shortening
3/4 cup milk

Roll the dough to 1/8-1/4", and cut into strips, cut strips to about 1-2" length....out of the remaining dough roll another pc about 1/2" thick....after dumplins have cooked just cover with the other pc of dough....put about 4 pats of butter and top with sugar to taste. It really isn't difficult at all.
The shortbread sounds really good too. Whichever way just be sure to Enjoy....


----------



## dejavoodoo114

Wow @CntryBoy777. I am going to have to try that recipe myself!


----------



## goatgurl

babs i'm so glad that the court date with the crazy neighbors is over.  sounds like the judge actually had some sense.    and I know that you are so anxious to get every thing done so you can get the dairy going but please don't wear yourself to a frazzle doing it.  remember you are the hub that all this turns around and if you're off kilter nothing will work right.  take care of yourself.  and btw I loved the pic of all your lounging goats.  alpines were my first love and I still think they are awesome, just don't tell my lamanchas, ok.


----------



## babsbag

rent stump grinder
wait for my sons and DIL to come for visit/work party
plant the garden that probably didn't get done on Sat.
Wash those sheets that probably didn't get washed on Sat. 

watch son grind stumps so I can tell him where they are. 

repair drip tubing we most likely tore up with grinder
make ice cream and maybe blackberry cobbler

Two trips to the get the grinder...they reserved the grinder for me but didn't bother to save me a trailer so I had to go home and get mine. GRRR

Got the trees cut low enough to grind after buying a new chain for my saw, love it when it has a new chain on it.  I need to learn how to properly sharpen one. 

Tomatoes and peppers are planted. The rest will come after Tuesday when I will take a trip to the nursery.

Tomorrow we will do the stumps in the orchard, AND repair the drip tubing that we will inevitably tear up.  We ran out of gas and of course it was 101° today so we were working this evening and it was getting dark so we will finish tomorrow.

I bought ice cream but I did make cobbler, but no dumplings. I'll have to try that though, it does sound yum.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Making progress!  That's always a good thing.


----------



## CntryBoy777

You are simply Amazing to me....and ya make me feel Lazy. I have to recoup for a couple of days after a hard days work. If there was an emicon of hiding under a leaf I'd use it....the chair is too high.


----------



## Devonviolet

WOW!  I'm embarrassed to say it has been quite a while since I read your journal, @babsbag. 

I've been busy with other things & don't usually spend a lot of time looking around, when I do log on to BYH. I have flagged this, though, and hopefully will get alerts when you post.

Gees, you have been through the ringer, Babs!

I was so sorry to hear that you lost your mother, right in the midst of all those frustrating things going on.

How fortunate for your DH, that you had EMT training & were able to recognize his symptoms & get him to the ER, where they were able to correctly diagnose his problems.

I was so sorry you had to find a new home for Alondra.  How sad that she & Mia couldn't get along.  I have heard that about females. In fact our dog's dam & her sister couldn't get along & had to be put in different pens. Our Violet is definitely "alpha" over her brother Deo.  She is our patroller - always on alert. Deo is the protector - quick to herd the goats to the goat shed if he senses danger. Many times he barks when she barks. Sometimes he looks around like he doesn't really know why he's barking.

WOW!  I can't imagine having as many kids as you had this year!  But, then if you are going to have enough milk to justify that commercial dairy equipment, you need lots of goats.  Too bad you didn't have more little girls.

I was so sorry to read about your problems with your neighbors about your property line.  It never ceases to amaze me when people think its okay to lie as drastically as your neighbors did.  They must have sat up a'll night thinking up those utterly rediculous. While I wasn't aware you were asking for prayers,  I didn't pray. However, I was so glad to see that your prayers were answered & the Judge ruled in your DH's favor. I have prayed & will continue to pray, that your lawyer will succeed to get your neighbor to pay all your legal fees.  That only seems fair, considering they were the reason you had to hire the lawyer in the first place.


----------



## babsbag

4:30

finish stumps
put sand in trench for gas line.  
run water line for hot water heater.   **Moved to Tuesday
Have sons move some sliding glass doors we have stored for a someday greenhouse
everything else I forgot

Mowed the lawn
had my birthday/mother's day gift opening


----------



## babsbag

@Devonviolet 

Alondra is still here. She and Mia have made the peace for the most part and Mia has let Alondra be boss. For all the pain in the neck that Mia was as a puppy she has turned out to be a really good dog and if that includes taking a back seat to Alondra to keep the peace I am ok with that. Alondra is a good girl too and I am blessed that none of my dogs are barker and that they are all safe around baby goats, even at a young age. (Mia was by far the hardest...about 8 months).


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> Alondra is still here. She and Mia have made the peace for the most part and Mia has let Alondra be boss.


Oh I'm so glad you got to keep Alondra!!! Even though they stay outside, with the animals, they become members of our family!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Congratulations!!....on the combined Gift. 
Sorry ya had to do a Day's work to get to it.


----------



## babsbag

I am so glad that this weekend is over.  That "everything else I forgot" was quite a bit longer than I had anticipated.  I needed to move some dirt so the truck delivering the propane tank tomorrow can get it in place. We also had to move a trailer which meant unhook the trailer for hauling the stump grinder, move a stack of t-post, hook up trailer and move it, and then hook up the trailer for the stump grinder again and load the stump grinder for tomorrow's delivery.  I did not get the drip tubing repaired simply because it got dark.  Also add in a trip to the hardware store for plumbing supplies. 

My kids gave me a book on "bee friendly plants", a gift card to Orchard Supply Hardware to buy some plants, and a lavender plant.  Our property that the neighbor wants to claim will eventually be turned into bee habitat so I will be reading that book and finding some good bee plants that are drought tolerant too. It is a nice gift. 


finish stumps
put sand in trench for gas line.
run water line for hot water heater. **Moved to Tuesday  ETA...or later
Have sons move some sliding glass doors we have stored for a someday greenhouse
everything else I forgot


----------



## greybeard

If my list were that short, I'd probably think I had died.........


----------



## babsbag

@greybeard, I didn't have time to die today  

Moving the trailers probably took the most time. We have about zero level land and parking and jockeying trailers around is always a challenge as we have too many trailers and not enough room to maneuver. We will eventually move them to the new land we bought but not until we can feel fairly confidant in keeping them safe...so more fencing and locks on the hitches. 

And of course there was the lawn to mow, the lawnmower that wouldn't start,  the sprinkler to fix, the garden to water, the dishes and laundry to do, the animals to feed, the eggs to collect, the hummingbirds to feed, and everything else that goes with living on a farm. It took me a while to keep the dirt out of the gas line trench too, it seems it was two shovel fulls out and one shovel full back in. Our soil is very sandy and dry and I actually found myself wishing for clay. The trench isn't wide enough to stand in and it is too deep to reach easily with my trenching shovel so it makes it hard.  The trencher did most of the work but I still had to clean out the dirt and rocks that slid back in. Just glad it is done.


----------



## babsbag

I  have a gas line installed  Tonight I will start to cover it up and then clean out a trench I dug BEFORE the gas line and get busy on the next step of the water line. The trenches intersect so I had to do the gas before the water as I didn't want to complicate things for this install. One step closer.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I think ya miss counted....ya are much More than just 1 step, just Amazing.....simply Amazing!!!.......


----------



## goatgurl

wow, what a list and what a good job.


----------



## babsbag

The list wore me out. I am absolutely exhausted tonight, enough where I did chores and called it a night, and that is really rare for me. Tomorrow is another day and of course the new list of jobs is forming in my mind even now.  

One of the biggest projects I need to do is the doors that the goats will use to enter and leave the barn. Of course we built this with the doors in one spot and now we have changed it so I need to move the door openings. Which means remove some siding, insulation, studs, FRP paneling, and plywood. Not a quick job but I need to get started on it this week.  Then I still need to build the doors, I think they will be sliding doors, like for a barn. But I have no plans and it will be a "wing it" kind of job.


----------



## CntryBoy777

My goodness Babs ya need to catch your Breath for a minute at least. That project is a bit out of my league, but I do know that if ya use wheels for the rollers, just make sure they can handle the weight of the door easily, otherwise ya will be cussing them before long.


----------



## babsbag

I built 5 sliding barn doors a few months ago for the front of my barn; they are on a double track so they can bypass each other and the doors are heavy, very heavy. 4x8 sheet of 3/8" ply with 2x4 frame, overlaid with metal and cedar for the trim. 2x6 redwood for the bottom section. That project was quite the deal, took me about 3 hours to build each door.  I still have 4 doors to modify as they are actually too tall once I put the rollers on; they hang a lot lower than I had planned. I also need to put a bottom track on them to keep them from swinging in the breeze but have to engineer that due to the ground not being level.  This project will be easier. 

The doors I am building this time are 3/8 plywood with 2x4 frame faced with red metal siding to match the building and no trim. They are going to be 36" wide and I think 4' tall or there about. I think I can do this, I just need to jump in.


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## frustratedearthmother

That's a cool looking door!


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## OneFineAcre

Great job. 
Makes me tired just reading all you do.


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## Mike CHS

OneFineAcre said:


> Great job.
> Makes me tired just reading all you do.



She does that to me also.  There have been a couple of days that I got too tired to even start after reading her thread. 

Just kidding of course but I am envious of your energy level doing what you are doing mostly by yourself.


----------



## Devonviolet

Mike CHS said:


> She does that to me also. There have been a couple of days that I got too tired to even start after reading her thread.


    

  You just crack me up, Mike!!!  ​Actually, there is an element of truth to what you & @OneFineAcre say!
​Babs does seem to run circles around us, doesn't she?  I suspect she is a few years younger than me, anyway. I might have been able to keep up with her ten years ago . . .


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## babsbag

See the thing is nothing makes me more tired than thinking of milking 33 goats by hand every day. I have some motivation.


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## babsbag

Devonviolet said:


> I suspect she is a few years younger than me, anyway.



I just turned 59 a few days ago.


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## frustratedearthmother

Holy cow - I wouldn't have any hands left if I had to hand milk 33 goats!  Yep - that's motivation!


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## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> See the thing is nothing makes me more tired than thinking of milking 33 goats by hand every day. I have some motivation.



   YUP!!! That would motivate me too!!!  

That's why I will never have more than 3 or 4 does to milk!  I currently have 2 that I am milking once a day, because their kids are still on them.  Even at that, I am getting almost a gallon a day. Once the kids are weaned, I will try milking twice a day, which I am assuming will get me about 2 gallons a day.  I'm still learning what to do with all that milk.    However, even with making cheese, butter, and ice cream, I don't think I will be able to use more than a couple or three gallons a day.


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## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> I just turned 59 a few days ago.


Yep, seven,years makes a big difference, when you get to my age.   Although, at 59, you are doing an amazing job of keeping up with that work load!    

BTW, Happy Belated Birthday! ! !


----------



## babsbag

Devonviolet said:


> 'm still learning what to do with all that milk.  However, even with making cheese, butter, and ice cream, I don't think I will be able to use more than a couple or three gallons a day



You raise a lot of pigs, and then a calf. Then learn to make soap and lotion which will use up less than a cup per 3 lb of soap and even less for lotion, so you build a dairy.


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## babsbag

@Devonviolet  BTW, how is that cream separator working out?


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## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> You raise a lot of pigs, and then a calf. Then learn to make soap and lotion which will use up less than a cup per 3 lb of soap and even less for lotion, so you build a dairy.


Yeah, if I started talking about getting pigs & cattle, that would put DH over the edge!    I am also wanting to learn how to make soap, but, as you said, it doesn't take much milk to make soap.

You asked about the cream separator.  We finally set it up this afternoon and separated 2-1/2 gallons of milk.  It turned out, DH thought he had it set for heavy cream, but it was set for light cream.  So tomorrow, we plan to do it again, using the cream we made (3-1/2 cups), with another couple gallons of milk.


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## babsbag

What do you plan on doing with the milk after you remove the cream?

Pigs have been one of the easiest animals to raise. I used a chain link dog kennel 10x16 with a cheap canopy over 1/2 of if for shade and rain protection. I had a sprinkler attached to the roof on a timer for mud making in the summer and a big trough for them to lay in. I ran a garden hose to a piece of PVC and attached it to the kennel with a hog waterer nipple on it and we were ready to rock and roll. Eventually we built a sally port outside of the gate to prevent escapes at feeding time. Next time I will lay stock panel strips on the ground inside the pen along the fence just to make sure no digging takes place. Other than the smell, (wouldn't want them near my house) they were easy. No hooves to trim, no shots to give, just feed 'em. Will be doing another pair as soon as the dairy is done and the bucks are moved.Old buck pen will be pig pen.


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## Devonviolet

Well Babs, you have given me food for thought . . . Right now, we have too many projects going, to even think of setting up a pen for pigs. Maybe next Fall, we can think about it.  For sure, pigs are a good way to dispose of excess milk.  

For now, I'm making Kefir, and would love to start making Ricotta cheese. What other cheeses can use skim milk?  Mozzarella?  I LOVE Mozarella cheese!!!  

We also give it to the dogs and cats.  With excess skim milk, we could increase how much we give the dogs.   They wouldn't complain one bit!!!   Especially Deo.  On occasion, I have given him a batch that ended up with a back hoof in it.  He couldn't inhale it fast enough!


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## babsbag

My LGDs drool at the milk stand.     When I had my pigs I was raising 1/2 of one for a friend that has a bunch of fruit trees she doesn't pick so my pigs got lots of apples and other fruits from her. It is also a good way to get rid of eggs if you have that problem, which I do...way too many chickens. 

Mozzarella would be better with some extra cream added, IMO. I think I would try cottage cheese for starters, but you need that pig.


----------



## babsbag

I had a doe kid tonight 7 days early, so day 143. She is a Togg and had mini Toggs. Both girls, and one with blue eyes and they are TINY. They have perfect Togg color and markings and oh so very very cute.  I was wondering if the Togg colors would come through and now I know.


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## Southern by choice

So cute! Great they can get on the teat too! Some minis have a hard time if the teats are too big.
What do you think they weigh?


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## Devonviolet

OH my gosh!!! What a pretty _little_ girls!!!   

They are _tiny_! 

Just precious!


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## CntryBoy777

Awwww!!...so Sweet, Congratulations!!...


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## babsbag

She has really nice teats, not real big. I will be watching them to make sure they are able to nurse but they seemed very happy and had round little tummies. Obviously one was nursing as I have a picture of it.  

I would guess that they weigh about 3 lbs...but it might be less, they are little. Being 7 days early makes them even smaller. 

Two more to kid, one due on 6/7 and one on 6/10. Of course I will be gone that weekend so they should both kid while I am gone.


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## frustratedearthmother

Congrats on the girls!  They are cute, cute, cute!


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## babsbag

Triplet boys born tonight. Geesh. If anyone needs Mini Alpine bucklings I am the go to girl for the year.  One doe left to freshen I have 39 bucklings and 21 doelings. But that doesn't matter, I have other way of obtaining does.  I think we need to resurrect that goat addict thread...I bought 7 LaMancha does today. I also bought an Alpine buckling.


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## CntryBoy777

Congratualations!!.....on all the New additions....


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats!


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## misfitmorgan

Congrats Babs


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## OneFineAcre

Congrats
We are getting a couple of Toggs in a couple of weeks
At first it was going to be 2, then 1 and as of last night 2 again
@Goat Whisperer saw one of them at the show this past  weekend


----------



## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> Triplet boys born tonight. Geesh. If anyone needs Mini Alpine bucklings I am the go to girl for the year.  One doe left to freshen I have 39 bucklings and 21 doelings. But that doesn't matter, I have other way of obtaining does.  I think we need to resurrect that goat addict thread...I bought 7 LaMancha does today. I also bought an Alpine buckling.



I hear you


----------



## babsbag

My last doe freshened on Friday right before I left town for the weekend...two doelings, 3/4 Nigi, 1/4 Alpine.  It looked as if mom had no interest in them whatsoever so a friend took them home, cleaned them up and got them fed. She ended up tubing one as there was just no interest in sucking at all. Saturday they finally took a bottle but fought it the whole way. Today I took them to the barn to let them spend the day and they started crying for some lunch and their dam answered them and she seemed very interested in their crying so I put them in a pen together and I'll be darned if she didn't accept them both and let them nurse as if they had never been gone. I am ok with that, I don't have time for bottle babies right now. 

Next Wed. the technician for the dairy equipment is coming to do the adjustments and finish some of the wiring. When DH took this apart some of the wires were in the attic with no access so he cut them at the ceiling. Now to figure out where they go in the reinstall. I have been running conduit and wire, what a thankless job...but the technician will make the final connections as we don't want to fry anything. Part of the system is low voltage but we aren't entirely sure which side of the transformer we are working off of so we will leave it for the pros. Tomorrow I will do some drains, oh joys...love plumbing almost as much as electrical.


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## frustratedearthmother

You're gettin' there!  Seems like things are coming together - woo hoo!


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## babsbag

OneFineAcre said:


> Congrats
> We are getting a couple of Toggs in a couple of weeks
> At first it was going to be 2, then 1 and as of last night 2 again
> @Goat Whisperer saw one of them at the show this past weekend



And I have to ask why. I love the breed, but not so much the milk. I haven't tasted milk from the one I own currently but the last one I owned had undrinkable milk. I know that they aren't all that way but a large majority of them have "goaty" milk.  Supposedly they make good cheese, but I'm not even convinced of that. They are pretty animals though.


----------



## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> And I have to ask why. I love the breed, but not so much the milk. I haven't tasted milk from the one I own currently but the last one I owned had undrinkable milk. I know that they aren't all that way but a large majority of them have "goaty" milk.  Supposedly they make good cheese, but I'm not even convinced of that. They are pretty animals though.


I'll let you know about the milk
But the why is the breed is bbecoming threatened
Fewer and fewer breeders every day
Maybe because of the bad reputation of the milk
One of the does is a daughter of an ADGA National Champ
Our vet raises them and has always said that Rachel needs a standard goat for showmanship
I don't  know about that
I think he knows how well we manage our goats and wants some of his in the youth show at the State Fair since his kids are grown


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## OneFineAcre

@babsbag
One of his does milked 17 lbs on her last test and is on track to be a top
10 producer
And one is milking about 6% fat and is on track to maybe being #1 in fat


----------



## Southern by choice

I think Toggs are absolutely beautiful.


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## babsbag

I was going to buy a Togg buck but unfortunately a mountain lion got to him first.   I will have to taste the milk from the one I have and if it is good maybe I will continue my search for a buck. I do like the breed and my first goats were 1/4 Togg.  I have owned three purebreds, one died from a twisted intestine and one other died and not even UC Davis could tell me why so I haven't had the best luck with them. I know that it is just the luck of the draw and goats, nothing to do with the breed in particular. I used to know a couple of breeders, but they have moved on to other breeds now.


----------



## babsbag

OneFineAcre said:


> And one is milking about 6% fat and is on track to maybe being #1 in fat



Does that get separated by breed?


----------



## misfitmorgan

We own 3 togs...i am starting to wonder if they are mini togs. Our friend has owned a tog named sweetie for about 4yrs and her milk tastes just fine.


----------



## OneFineAcre

babsbag said:


> Does that get separated by breed?



Yes.


----------



## babsbag

The dairy is up and running.  Not certified yet but I have power, water, and all systems are a go. The technician came out today and he was amazing...fast, nice, good, and just easy to work with. There is a new DeLaval (that is the brand of my equipment) dealer a few hours from me and he came over for "training" which was great as it allowed him to know what I have and work with a pro and learn all about MY system while doing it. It was actually my idea to invite him to come over today and I am really glad that I did. He and his co-worker did a lot of work while learning and it was "on the house". We bought them lunch and Gatorade. It has been over 100° everyday since last Saturday, I think today's high was around 110° so we started work at 5:00 AM. Gosh it was nice that time of the day but now it is time for bed...past time  really. 

Now to start the list to get it all certified and first thing on it that list is a ramp and door for the goats to get into the barn.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## TAH




----------



## misfitmorgan




----------



## Hens and Roos

Awesome


----------



## frustratedearthmother

That is fantastic!  It's been a long haul but ya got there - CONGRATS!!!!


----------



## farmerjan

I know some of what goes into getting a dairy up and going,  good for you.  It takes so much work and dedication and in today's world of tough milk prices and all, great that you will be able to branch into the cheese and other markets.  Congratulations.  I have followed your journal and have been very impressed.


----------



## Mini Horses

This has been a long journey -- CONGRATS!!!

So -- now that it is a reality and you will soon be certified --
how/where/what is your market to sell?

We have all watched your hard, hard work and I'd sure like to think "something" was pretty well designed for an outlet to all the process.


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## OneFineAcre

Congratulations


----------



## lalabugs

Congratulations!!!!!


----------



## babsbag

Mini Horses said:


> So -- now that it is a reality and you will soon be certified --
> how/where/what is your market to sell?



My market for bottled milk will be by subscription to start and then hopefully a couple of stores will take it too. The health food store is on the fence about it since I am not organic so we will see.  The cheese will be farmer's markets and a few of the local grocery stores but most people don't think that I will end up making cheese, they think that I will have a bigger demand for bottled milk than what I can supply. That would be ok with me to start with; a lot less work. However, I just had someone contact me about supplying cheese for a restaurant and also the local brewery supply store wants to have cheese to go with their wine tasting gigs. It seems that the outlets are endless.  I will be looking for someone to do my marketing for me, at least the online presence as I just don't have the time.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Kind of related but it was a couple weeks ago that it was National Dairy Goat week.
Maurine made arrangements to get some cheese from Spinning Spider Creamery for the farmer's market.
It sold really well.
May work out a deal to get more and Rachel can make a few extra bucks on top of the lemondade/orangeade


----------



## babsbag

It is really great that Rachel is able to sell at the market; you can never instill that work ethic too early in life. Good for her, and for her parents for encouraging her.

I think I could do well selling cheese at markets. The other dairy that was here has retired and they didn't sell their business, they just closed up shop. Not sure why, they had been here quite a while. So right now the local goat cheese market is wide open. I just need to make enough money to hire someone to milk or do markets...I can't be doing both.

I can't tell you how exciting it was to see this system work. I didn't have any goats connected but it ran through all the cycles and did the wash/acid rinse/sanitize/ cycle and was just so amazing to see it work. I have glass milk pipe line for part of the system so you can actually see what is going on in the pipe, really cool.

I just spent about three hours trying to get a leak to stop on a faucet, good grief. This isn't rocket science but it sure felt like it; I was successful, finally. I have one other sink valve leaking, but I think it is the actual valve that is defective. I really dislike plumbing. Yesterday when I turned on the water I was very happy to only see those two leaks, all the rest was good, as were all the drains. Not bad for a non-plumber kind of gal. I also wired in the two lights and the fans and the 2 junction boxes outside so when the breaker was finally turned on it was a good feeling to see those work too.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

You are definitely a "jill of all trades" for sure!  Good thing you can handle a lot on your own!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

So happy for you Babs!


----------



## goatgurl

yea for you babs.  I can only imagine how  excited you are to get things all done and ready to start up.  to bad i'm so far away because i'd do the markets for you in a second.


----------



## Mini Horses

I am anxious to see photos of your "first day"   LOL...so much work you have done and it deserves a great finish -- USING it all.  Personally, I've enjoyed your journey and if I lived on that side of the country, I'd sure help you milk!!!!  

   won't be much longer....we can see those does hooked up and pumping.   It's exciting.


----------



## babsbag

Why is it that everyone that would be happy to help me lives on the wrong side of the country? Not fair at all, but thanks for the "I would if I could" offers. 

It is so hard to work outside this week, over 110° and even I melt.  I will be making my girls a plywood ramp to get into the dairy for now and then a metal one needs to come soon. I so wish I knew how to weld. The one person that I know that does it for me is $$$ to hire but I may have to; at least he is good and honest. I need to make my certification list and knock one thing a day off of it, that is the only way I will get it done.  Now that I have lights I can paint and caulk at night which I may do, at least it is cooler that way. Part of my problem is that I don't want to give up anything else that I do which means gardening this time of year and watering right now is almost a full time job. Almost everything is on automatic timers but at 112° that just isn't enough and I find myself wandering through the orchard and garden giving more water to things and fixing valves or drippers that inevitable want to fail on the hottest days of the year.  And of course there is still everything else to do to keep life functioning.  

There is one code section for the dairy that I need to figure out too and I'm not entirely sure who to ask. I don't want to ask the inspector as they will just tell me what they have seen and not give me any options. The code is just so poorly written, as if it was written by a lawyer who thought that they were a dairyman, or maybe they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express and that would explain it all. 

And the funnest chore of all will be tattooing all my goats so that they have a permanent ID for TB and Brucellosis testing.  Of all my goats I think 11 are tattoed so that leaves about 30 to be done. Guess I better order some ink.


----------



## babsbag

Totally not dairy related or even goat, but I had to share. This showed up on my FB this morning and it is priceless to say the least.


----------



## Hillaire

yeeesh


----------



## Mike CHS

I saw a conversation once where one person posted he was looking for a trailer that he could pull with his pickup to haul his livestock.  Another person got on and said nobody needs something that uses that much fuel and that the person looking for the trailer should do like "normal" people do and get his meat from the grocery store.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

@babsbag, We get that kind of stuff sent to us all the time (plus large amount of hate mail).  We started out with chickens and quail before we went into the larger stock.  I remember talking with my Grandfather about life when he was a kid.  When they came west at age 6, they had with them a fair number of chickens because they were light weight, needed little feed/could scavenge and was a source of protein, both meat and eggs.  He told me of how they would get eggs every other day or third day for most of the year (due to the small amount of feed and water available), but in the spring when the chickens could find plenty to eat and water was in greater supply, they would get an egg a day per chicken.  Most are probably wondering why I would recount what most people know about chickens today.  I put this down because it is a small snip it of when my Grandfather was 6, heading west in a covered wagon in 1904.  I guess even back then, chickens had been genetically modified to produce more than 12 eggs a year.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Also love the egg yolk used to mask the names!


----------



## babsbag

HomeOnTheRange said:


> I put this down because it is a small snip it of when my Grandfather was 6, heading west in a covered wagon in 1904.  I guess even back then, chickens had been genetically modified to produce more than 12 eggs a year.



Definitely genetically modified in 1904.


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> The dairy is up and running.  Not certified yet but I have power, water, and all systems are a go.


  ​​
I've been wondering how things are going, with your dairy, but haven't seen anything in my alerts or feed.  So I came looking.  I'm so happy for you, Babs!!!


----------



## Baymule

There are some incredibly ignorant people out there.....they walk among us.......

We are all so excited for you! You have worked so hard for this and we want pictures of your ribbon cutting, grand opening! So go get a piece of ribbon, scizzors and snap a pic!


----------



## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> There are some incredibly ignorant people out there.....they walk among us.......
> 
> We are all so excited for you! You have worked so hard for this and we want pictures of your ribbon cutting, grand opening! So go get a piece of ribbon, scizzors and snap a pic!


Yes!  SPEECH!   SPEECH!   SPEECH!  

​
I want pictures of the ribbon cutting ceremony TOO!!!


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is really Nice to have a "Dream" become reality....and with an "Open" market ya may want to hang On cause you'll meet yourself coming and going. It would be nice to be able to hire a few to help with it all. It does sound like ya have a really Good start......
Hope it grows into what ya are wishing it to....


----------



## Devonviolet

Hey @babsbag, I've been wanting to ask you a question about something you said, a while back, but now I can't find it.  You were talking about getting your new equipment up and running, and said something about acids.  

Is that for sterilizing the equipment?  When I first started milking, I found an acid wash, online, that I believe was a pH of 4, for sterilizing equipment.  I am pretty sure it was a chemical of some sort, and I don't like the idea of using chemicals, if I can avoid it.

I know that plain vinegar has a low pH, so looked it up and found this:

_"most commercial distilled white vinegars contain 5-10% acetic acid and have a pH roughly around 2.40 - 3.40. The textbook pH of vinegar is 2.5."
_
The vinegar I get locally is 5%, so I am assuming it has a pH of 3.40?

So, I'm wondering what you know about using plain vinegar as an antiseptic for cleaning milk processing equipment- IOW would it be sufficient for me to use, processing milk in my kitchen?  Oh, and what I read said the acid should be left a minimum of one minute, but 2+ minutes is better.  I have straight vinegar in a spray bottle, on my counter, and I spray everything and leave it at least 2 minutes. That, of course is in addition to washing everything thoroughly with soap and water.


----------



## babsbag

I have never heard of using it but the pH is right, it needs to be 3.  I clean my bucket milker everyday with bleach and Dawn and then once a week I break it down and use an acid wash to remove the milk stone. Right now I am using up chemicals that were given to me when I purchased the system but after that I will be looking for some that "might" be safer.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I know several people who use vinegar for their milking equipment. 

I use a milk stone & acid rinse (when we use the machine) that was made for this purpose.


----------



## Devonviolet

Thanks Babs.  What you say about the acid removing the milk stone makes sense, as acid dissolves calcium, and milk stone is actually calcium deposits.

What I have read, online, is that washing equipment will set the calcium and cause milk stone.  By rinsing the equipment in cold water first, it rinses the calcium off and avoids milk stone.  I have been doing that for three months and don't have milk stone. But then, I don't know if it takes it longer to show up.


----------



## babsbag

I wash in cold water at the barn as that is all I have. I run 5 gallons of soap and bleach solution through it and then 5 gallons of just bleach solution. I still get milk stone so I am not convinced that it is temperature related. The dairy equipment is Clean In Place (CIP) and it does a detergent wash, then an acid rinse, and then a 12% chlorine sanitizer. All of it is done with water that is over 114° (I think that is the magic number from the code) but each soap company will tell you what temp. their product will perform at its best. 

I am still pinching myself...can't believe that the equipment is finally in place and WORKING.


----------



## babsbag

I am installing sliding doors for the goats to enter and exit the milking parlor and the directions make no sense whatsoever. I am not stupid and I have a pretty good grasp on construction type projects so why is this so confusing? I am using this bracket.






Notice the square holes in the front for the carriage bolts? Now I thought that the metal strap goes on the front of the door, but if I do that the bolts go all the way through and rub on the wall of the barn. If I put the bolts through from the back then the square holes don't serve any purpose for the carriage bolt. There is also an adjustment nut under the raised part on the top of the strap and that is only accessible if the strap goes on the back of the door and the nuts show on the front. Is that really want they want you to do?  But the installation instructions show the strap on the front of the door and the bolts coming from the back so why the square holes and why carriage bolts, they don't go into the plywood door backing very well. And why the adjustment nut if you can't reach it after the door is installed?

I'M CONFUSED.


----------



## Hillaire

how much space is it if you were to have it installed from the wall to the door... how far are the bolts hanging out of the wood?  I believe I have always seen the plate on the front of any sliding doors with this on there... as far as the carriage bolt and square hole  Honestly if it were me I would just throw bolts that are big enough to fit through the hole and if its too long in the back grind it down with a grinder but that's just me lol


----------



## babsbag

I thought about grinding it down... they stick out about 1/2"  The doors are 3/16" plywood with metal siding over it with a 1x6 frame around it all. They are about 1.25" thick total as I wanted really lightweight doors. I'm not sure if cutting the bolts would give me enough clearance.  The plate on the back seems weird but the carriage bolts threw my a curve ball, that and the adjustment nut. Of course I would really like to get to that nut as they don't hang perfectly parallel to the siding and I am a "level and square" fanatic. Doesn't help that this in on a trailer that we built that most likely isn't "level and square" as my DH does not share my same compulsion.  So my dilemma is always "do I go level or do I line it up with the vertical siding?"


----------



## Hillaire

this is just a thought but since it is so tight is there a way that you can run a board from where it needs to connect and have it at the width to make clearance basically put it on the building then attach the rail of the door to that? would that give you the clearance you need?


----------



## babsbag

It would except that the rail is already up and I hate to redo it. It is on metal siding so I already had to cut spacers to bring the rail brackets out even with the ridges in the siding. I went ahead and put the bolts through from the back and just ignored the square on the plate and on the bolt. There is also a hole drilled in the top of the door to allow the hanger bolt to protrude down into the door. Supposedly if I make the hole big enough I have some in/out adjustment space. I have another door to put the plates on so I am going to play with the location and size of the top hole and see if that will allow be to pull the door away from the wall. If it does I will take this door down and re-drill the holes. Of course I already pounded the end caps on the rail to keep the door from coming out. *SIGH*

I did 5 doors a few months ago but they were quite heavy and I used different hangers. I was cursing those at the time and thought that these would be easier. Perhaps "easy" and "barn door" only go in the same sentence when you can hire it done.


----------



## babsbag

Door are done. I just put the bolts through from the back.






Now to build temporary ramps for the goats. The doors are quite high since this is built in a trailer; about 4' in the front and almost 6' in the back. I am having steel ramps built but I need something I can use now as I hope to start milking next week. I am thinking two 2x12 for each ramp with some cleats across them to hold them together and for slippage control. I can but some legs under them for support if I need to. I need to put some kinds of sides on them too, at least until they get used to the routine. I don't want to invest a lot of time and money since it is temporary. Easiest would be stock panel but also the most expensive, but always something I can re-purpose.


----------



## Southern by choice

I thought that is how they were suppose to go on...


----------



## babsbag

That is what the directions show but why use carriage bolts and put the square holes for the blots to go in if they aren't intended to be used?


----------



## OneFineAcre

Coming together


----------



## babsbag

30 kids left my farm today.   Many does are missing their kids today.   This goat raising is sure tough on the emotions. As we loaded each kid in the truck their dam would start screaming for them...it's tough on my heart and my ears. 

I still have 25 kids out there, a few aren't weaned, a few are staying, but many are mini alpine bucklings that need to leave. 

Tomorrow I milk.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh wow - it's about to get real!


----------



## babsbag

Yes it is and I just hope that the fun was not only in the pursuit of the dream.  But  I am so sick and tired of building, sawdust and sore muscles are getting really old, especially when it is 102° outside, at least the milking will be done in a relatively cool and very clean building.

Today I am trying to build the railings on the ramps. I have steel ones coming eventually so trying not to spend a ton of money or time but that isn't going so well. I will get some pictures when I am done.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hoping all goes smoothly


----------



## Baymule

Awesome that tomorrow you start milking. It must be hard to let so many kids go, but you can't keep them all.


----------



## babsbag

Almost done...I have been going none stop since 6 AM and a 9:00 PM I just couldn't go anymore. I still had to unload hay, feed the goats, chase down some pullets that were in the buck pen, and haul trash out to the highway (and have the can tip over and dump garbage all over our road. )  So tomorrow I have one more 2x4 to find for bracing, some cross bracing to do, a few more cleats to put on the ramp, find some plywood scraps for a "railing", cut two more pieces of stock panel to finish the pathway, cut the current fence in two places to make gates, drive in some t-post for the corral, and bolt the head gates onto the stands. I am just beat...long, long day and tomorrow has to start at sunup if I am going to milk before noon.  Today would have been a good day to have some help but it is what it is. 

Supposed to be 102° tomorrow...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Whew... I know you don't feel like you can slow down right now...but you've gotta be awake and moving to get over the finish line - maybe you can find a little time to nap! 

Hope today goes smoothly for you.  And, CONGRATS for getting to this point!


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> It would except that the rail is already up and I hate to redo it. It is on metal siding so I already had to cut spacers to bring the rail brackets out even with the ridges in the siding. I went ahead and put the bolts through from the back and just ignored the square on the plate and on the bolt. There is also a hole drilled in the top of the door to allow the hanger bolt to protrude down into the door. Supposedly if I make the hole big enough I have some in/out adjustment space. I have another door to put the plates on so I am going to play with the location and size of the top hole and see if that will allow be to pull the door away from the wall. If it does I will take this door down and re-drill the holes. Of course I already pounded the end caps on the rail to keep the door from coming out. *SIGH*
> 
> I did 5 doors a few months ago but they were quite heavy and I used different hangers. I was cursing those at the time and thought that these would be easier. Perhaps "easy" and "barn door" only go in the same sentence when you can hire it done.



They use those type hangers all over the place we are in now and as far as ive seen the square holes are not ment for the head of the carriage bolt, no clue why they keep putting them on the brackets. We adjusted all 4 sliding doors on the barn when we moved in and to get to the bolt we had to slide the doors off the rail...prop up the door and slide them on the rail so we could square them "in place" but not on the actual rail. These doors were hung in 1930some so apparently they have been putting those square holes in for a long time.


----------



## babsbag

@greybeard or any other electric fence expert....please explain in VERY simple terms how the chain around my gate and fence can issue me a shock? 

Energizer is DC, has one ground rod and fence is acting as a ground as well. I have had this problem before and it went away on its own but here it is again.


----------



## Simpleterrier

Is it wet out?


----------



## misfitmorgan

If it is very wet out that could do it.

Also if grass is going across your fence and then to your gate it could shock you.

Check your grounding rod, the goats knocked the wire off our grounding rod i didnt know it and reached up to turn off the fencer(you know little plastic knob) and it had enough power to jump from the metal fencer housing to my fingers and give me a good poke. Thats about an inch away. We re-attached the wire to the grounding rod and no problem.

Make sure your fence that should be acting like a ground is actually grounding.

Thats all i know on the topic lol. Basically it comes down to either something is transferring it to your gate or chain...or it isnt grounded properly making it jump to other near objects. I'm sure there are more technical terms but thats the basic concept.

I forgot....if you hear arcing by your gate or grounding rod something is definately a miss. Grass on the fence, or hay, or twine, or anything.


----------



## babsbag

I don't hear it arcing and it isn't wet out. It hasn't rained in a month and won't rain for another 3 months...welcome to summer in CA.  I will check the ground rod as it is possible that the wire came off. I hate this as now I have to turn off the fence to open the gate. The hot wire definitely is not touching the fence or the gate so it is being transferred somewhere and for some reason.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I don't hear it arcing and it isn't wet out. It hasn't rained in a month and won't rain for another 3 months...welcome to summer in CA.  I will check the ground rod as it is possible that the wire came off. I hate this as now I have to turn off the fence to open the gate. The hot wire definitely is not touching the fence or the gate so it is being transferred somewhere and for some reason.



You have your fence set up in Neg/Pos fashion I assume since you said the fence is its own ground?


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry I'm late to this party, but sincere congrats on getting to the finish line on your dairy.   I hope it is everything and more than what you dreamed it would be. I just know that you'll see success with sales and marketing. Now, noting the checklist of items needed for certification, have you crossed the finish line yet & gotten certified? And since I am in the method and manner of my screen name... late... How have things gone since you actually started milking?


----------



## babsbag

misfitmorgan said:


> You have your fence set up in Neg/Pos fashion I assume since you said the fence is its own ground?



My fence is horse fence with a strand of hot wire at the bottom and top. The fence is grounded so that anything climbing it will get shocked even though they are not touching the earth. It has ground rods too, but also the fence is connected to the ground rod. I haven't tried to figure this out, I just turn off the charger. This will all be re-done shortly. 

Milking has been interesting. I am up to bringing 6 into the parlor at a time, but it can hold 8. The goats are having a tough time figuring out how to get their heads into the head gate. They have to come down from the top, they can't go through it head on. They have to get out the same way. They are cascading head gates which means that they can't get to the grain until the goat in front of them gets their head in a gate and opens the next one.  If they don't get in soon enough they will jump off the stand and then it is a pain to get them back up. I often toss them out the door, which leaves them loose on my land, not in a goat pasture.  Next year's blackberries have been well trimmed.   I am certainly learning which goats are the smart ones.  I am also going through a lot of grain and alfalfa pellets. 

I am still not certified. Tomorrow I will work on cleaning out the processing trailer and hoping that DH will get it leveled this weekend. I need to do drains too and that is uncharted territory for me once it leaves the building. I am not sure about drain vents so I either need to learn real fast or DH has to do those too. And then there is the bulk tank that needs casters so I can level it. I wish I knew how to weld...

I also need to get all goats tested for TB and brucellosis. (and tattooed first...ugh) .


----------



## misfitmorgan

I honestly have no idea what is wrong with the fence then. My only suggestion would be more ground rods but if the fence is pos/neg type it shouldnt need more.

You will get there i'm sure Babs and the goats will figure it out eventually. My goats are not all smart either the one tog could not figure out how to get to the grain from the stand so she jumped off and went around to the front to get it


----------



## babsbag

misfitmorgan said:


> My goats are not all smart either the one tog could not figure out how to get to the grain from the stand so she jumped off and went around to the front to get it



That is so "goat like"    They certainly do have a way of solving puzzles, just not the right way.


----------



## Devonviolet

This is so fun, watching your progress!

I'm praying that you are able to get things running smoothly, quickly, so you can get certified and start selling your milk. You may have said this already, but do you mind if I ask who you will be selling to, and/or marketing your milk to?


----------



## babsbag

I will advertise the milk everywhere that people frequent...feed stores, grocery stores, CL, coffee shop, facebook, etc. Interested people will do like a herd share and commit to a certain amount a week. I am trying to get my farm on the local farm trail so I can have up to 8 people a day at my place to buy milk, otherwise I have to meet them out at the main road. I will also do farmer's market and a few small local stores, especially for the cheese. When I find the right person and the right place I want to open a "From our farm gate to your plate"  store and offer a place for people to sell the wares that are grown on their farm or made in their kitchen under the CA cottage food law.  I have my eye on a store already, it would be very small and have a drive through window, but that is down the road by a few years. 

I need new buck pens. I am not doing breeding like last year, one at a time. I want to be able to take the does that need to be bred to a certain buck and put them in his pen and leave them there.  But my buck pen needs shelters and a place to eat out of the rain. I may be super woman but not sure about building these on my own.  

I would like all of the feeders in a row under one roof and a roof for me to feed from too, and store hay. And of course the area I want to use faces south which gets slammed with rain and wind so it needs doors...life is never simple.  I am thinking 6'x 8' for each eating and sleeping area and then the rest of the pen will V out to a wider width. I need a 5' overhang for me to walk under and store a few bales of hay so 13' of roofing.  Not sure of the size yet for the rest of the pens...I have too many bucks...7 to be exact....and I don't really want to build 7 pens but there is no other way to do selective breeding.  But at 6' across for each pen that is 42 linear feet of roofing and that won't be cheap, not to mention the stock panel to go between the pens. I have some 4x4 goat and sheep fencing I can use but I sure hate to stretch fence; I hate stretching fence.  I also want to do part of it in stock panel so I can remove it after rut and let them each have a buddy or two.  I will leave a perimeter run around the pens so the dogs can patrol the perimeter of all pens and not have to have access to each one individually. 

I'm tired just thinking about this. I have about 2 months to get this done... I would love to just run out and buy some roofing but I have some old pieces that I may need to salvage but it sure is nice when it is all the same length. I am thinking that I may piece these together on the ground and patch any holes and treat them as one 15' length; never installed it that way but I might give it a go.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> That is so "goat like"    They certainly do have a way of solving puzzles, just not the right way.


If it works, it isn't the "wrong way"


----------



## misfitmorgan

You could do something like this as well bags it uses slightly less roofing material and maintains the 5ft alley and gives you a 6x8 for storage or overflow pen. The mesh block looking stuff is the cattle panels i just didnt make the texture with an alpha.


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## babsbag

@misfitmorgan, that is a really nice building and if I had the space for that it would be great. I need to build in a straight row for a few reasons but mostly to give the bucks access to some browse and place to hang out. The pens will be long and narrow but at least they will have room to roam. The map I just did says 79' across the front but I am going much narrower than than, but it will fan out as it moves north.  The feeders and alleyway will be across the front. 

The other reason is because the only level area I have would be too close to the dairy if I don't do it in a linear fashion.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I had thought about that being the reason you wanted to do a single sided shelter, i thought maybe you could do a double and put it in the middle...but maybe that to far from the utilities/water? Not having a level spot would be a problem too though.


----------



## babsbag

Too many trees to clear in the middle and it slopes down hill rather quickly. I may have to take out some oak trees just to give them some sun in the winter.  I found some used roofing on CL that I might go and buy. It is only 8' long so I would have to piece it, I would make it 12'  (minus the overlap) to make it simple. Do you think that joining them end to end before installing them would work? Can you think of any reason that it wouldn't?  I could even put a thin piece of plywood as a splice at the seam for stability, not all the way to the edge though so it won't interfere with the lapping of the next sheet. Thoughts?

I have quite a bit of used stuff here already, I just need to sort it and see what I have. All different colors unfortunately.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Why are you wanting to piece it together into 12ft sections before putting it on the roof?

Another question...if the barn has to be 8ft deep for the stalls plus 5ft deep for the alley/storage....why would you want 12ft peices?








also i believe they have a do it yourself paint for tin now.


----------



## babsbag

I was going to do a single slope roof and just crunch it down to 12 feet, I don't think that bucks will mind losing a foot of sleeping space. 7x6 should be big enough for one to get out of the weather. 

I wanted to piece it together first as reaching across 3' panels to do the seaming while on a ladder is just not my idea of fun, I've done it too many times and if I don't have a cross member right there it can be hard to get the screw to go through the metal without some pushing up from the bottom.  If I do 12' I only need one cross member in the middle and I would do it at 5' and let a foot hang over each end. I don't have to worry about snow here so as long as it has a slight slope to it I'm good to go.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Do you think that joining them end to end before installing them would work?


Sure, if you don't mind it leaking all along those seams  You need to use the special rubber grommeted roof screws into something solid. I GUESS you could rivet them together beforehand to make longer panels but you would need to coat those with something waterproof AFTER the panels are installed. 



babsbag said:


> I wanted to piece it together first as reaching across 3' panels to do the seaming while on a ladder is just not my idea of fun



I have a chicken ladder you can borrow for free. Of course it is a 3,000 mile one way trip and I would need to charge a delivery fee. 

They do make hooks for "regular" ladders. If you could get your hands on one, I'd put the 8' sections low and the 4' section with 1' overlap high. That way you would be comfortably in the middle of the ladder while you work.


----------



## babsbag

I know about the leaks...been there and this isn't my first rodeo with metal roofing. I think I have finally learned the tricks... make sure that the overlap is at the high end of the slope, use the right screws (metal to metal wit washers), and use a strip of sticky weather stripping. I prefer single pieces of metal but that isn't my fate.  I did learn that the clear plastic panels will not seam unless there is a support under them as they get warm and pliable and leak no matter what I try.

I just find it easier to flip a full length of metal onto the rafters instead of trying to get the pieces to line up all the nice ridges and valleys end to end. And if you get them off even a little then your length wise seams start to run catawampus too.  I think I can do a better job getting them married together on flat ground.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I think I can do a better job getting them married together on flat ground.



I can see that! Just not sure how you keep that joint stiff enough to not break the seal on the weatherstripping as you get it up into position. Maybe if they were laid out flat on the downhill side and carefully slid up onto the roof? But that joint would have to be supported somehow. This doesn't help the "not doing the seams on the roof" but if pop riveting them together for positioning does work, perhaps you could drill the rivet out after the panel is up and replace it with a roof screw? That way you would not have to deal with sealing all the rivet points. Of course the rivet would have to be a smaller diameter than the screw. 

I know about roof leaks as well. Both the big and little barns need a HUGE amount of repair/replace. No money for that. Had lots of leaks in the west side of the big barn roof. I've put in over 600 screws with rubber grommets to stop them along with sliding a flat piece of sheet metal under the edge where it looks like the roof had been picked up by the wind and bent, cracked. Got most of the leaks. But as with any leak in a metal over old shingles over roof boards, where the leak shows up underneath may be quite distant from where the water is coming in.


----------



## Simpleterrier

Here's an Idea what if u built whole roof sections together the just screwed the wood together and one metal seam. You could do it all on the ground in three or so metal roof sections wide


----------



## babsbag

Simpleterrier said:


> Here's an Idea what if u built whole roof sections together the just screwed the wood together and one metal seam. You could do it all on the ground in three or so metal roof sections wide



I like that idea, but can I lift them to get them in place? 



Bruce said:


> Just not sure how you keep that joint stiff enough to not break the seal on the weatherstripping as you get it up into position.



That is why I was thinking perhaps a piece of 1/4" ply to use as a "splint". I wouldn't run it all the way to the edge so it won't interfere with the side overlaps.

Why can't I just win the lottery and have someone build all of this for me?


----------



## Bruce

Because then you wouldn't have all the FUN! You can win the lottery and buy 12' panels 

One thing I found interesting, and counterintuitive, with metal roof is WHERE you put the screws. I always figured they would be put in the "hump" overlap. That way most of the water running down the panel wouldn't go near the screws and the screws would hold the 2 pieces together. Then I watched a video put out by a roofing company. He said one of the most common errors was to put the screws there rather than on the flat where it is in contact with the decking.  
DOH!



babsbag said:


> I like that idea, but can I lift them to get them in place?


I suspect it would take a few people unless you had a backhoe to lift them up to the roof. At best, I guess if you could lean them up against the edge of the roof a couple of people could shove them up. You would need someone at the top to "catch" them and screw them in. I'm not real sure I totally understand how the premade roof section is attached to the roof itself unless the idea is to build the roof deck on the rafters, screw the metal down and then somehow lift all that up and attach the rafters to the top plates?? In that case I can't even imagine how much that would weigh.


----------



## babsbag

Being that I live in no snow CA I don't have to do a roof deck. We get the pleasure of installing metal roofing over rafters with no underlayment.  For  a 12' length I will have 3 rafters that run perpendicular to the 12' length and it is pretty easy to toss the metal roofing up there...holding up metal roofing attached to the wood beams (2x6) would be a tad more difficult and more than I can handle on my own. It would also require more 2x6's to support the pre-made roofing sections as I install them. 

Tomorrow I will try to sort the metal that I have and see what more I would need to buy. I will have to look for some paint for them as I know I have read and green ones, and maybe tan too. I would like for them to be all the same color is possible. The stuff that I found on CL is not the same as the stuff I already own so that can't go together which means I need to either use mine or the other but not both.


----------



## Bruce

If there is no deck, how do you properly screw the panels down?


----------



## misfitmorgan

I made the roof on those models 4/12 pitch...i forgot you have no snow lol. Let me try making it a 12ft slant and see how it looks.


----------



## Mike CHS

Our lean-to shelters just have the metal roofing screwed down to the rafters.  I just laid the rafter spacing out to accommodate that spacing.  If you are off a bit it doesn't matter since you can just make the overlap fit.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Here all pole barns are built without decking, they simply lay purlins across the top of the rafters.

Like this


----------



## babsbag

A roof built like these. The ones with the dog houses is pretty close to what I want to do. I would put gates across the front where I can get in and also hang the feeders.  The runs would get wider as they get farther into the pasture. I would do a 4x4 post just like that, every other corner. Use 2x6's for roofing members and Simpson ties to attach the 2x6's to the 4x4's.  We do 5' spans with the metal all of the time, even the commercial people build with 5' spans.  They make special screws for attaching the metal to metal with no underlayment, they call them stitching screws, so there doesn't have to be a support under the horizontal seams.


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm trying to figure out what type of dog uses a house that is off the ground that far..... 

No snow means you can built it light, here we always have to build with a 70lb snow load....according to home inspectors anyhow.


----------



## babsbag

The houses are pretty curious. 

My home is only built to a 30 lb (HUD) and I think our garage is 20 lb. We get a few inches of snow now and then, I have never seen more than 4".  My entire barn was built this way before I moved it for the dairy. That metal is actually stronger than it looks, we have placed 2x4s and plywood on top of the roof and walked on it...I wouldn't want to dance up there though.


----------



## Simpleterrier

Here we get snow say up to two feet we use 2x4 standing on edge every two to four feet with the metal screwed directly to the 2x4 purlins. I was just giving out ideas on how to spend less time in the air and more time on the ground. I have help build and worked in to many pole barns to count. If there is a will there is a way just gotta think it threw


----------



## babsbag

I am all about working on the ground and not the air, especially when the ground isn't level. When I built my chicken coop I had to tie off scaffolding to trees and place it on stacks of lumber to make it level. I also used ladders on top of the scaffolding to reach the roof. I guess you could say that I am pretty good at breaking all of the safety rules but it isn't something that I enjoy.  I never did get it painted...


----------



## Bruce

That is a BIG chicken coop babs! I don't think I would want to be up there either. Makes your goat shed look like a piece of cake.


----------



## frustratedearthmother




----------



## Devonviolet

Looks awesome!  But I'm curious . . . it looks really high. Is it 2 stories?  I love that you have such large openings for air flow. I would love to do that. But, the problem I can see is rain getting in, making the coop floor soggy.


----------



## Baymule

Your chicken coop has a basement!


----------



## babsbag

My chicken coop is built on a pretty steep slope so it could have a basement on the high end but I closed it all in to keep chickens from laying and going broody under there and because of fire. Many structures burn when embers get blown under decks. It is about 5' off of the ground in the back and ground level at the front. 

@Devonviolet, there are two sides open and one faces north, no wind or rain on that side. The other faces west, which is sometimes subject to wind and rain but I have one of the plastic "bamboo" shades hung on both openings and it keeps the rain out. I can raise the shade in the summer.  The coop is under a few trees and really does stay cool considering out heat. The chickens have about 1/4 acre yard and a pond to play in so they are only in there at night.  Since the sides that are wire are so far off of the ground I don't worry about predators. I still want to let my dogs in there at night, I need to figure out a way to do that but I have an auto door so the chickens go to bed after I am done with chores so I don't want to go back to open a gate for the dogs.  I don't trust Mia and Alondra and the other two have never been around ducks.


----------



## babsbag

Mia was supposed to be in heat in May or June...never was...I was going to breed her.  Alondra will one year old on 7/30. Guess who is having her first heat? UGH!!!!  I am not planning on breeding her but we will see. She is a barker and a climber, keeping her confined might be a bit of a challenge and I would imagine that she could chew her way out of the kennel if she was so inclined. I am also not sure how she gets along with the house dogs and it is their kennel and their yard that she has to stay in. 

Francis shows no interest in her at all right now so guessing that I have a few more safe days. She was getting snippity with Mia, that was my clue.


----------



## CntryBoy777

As if ya didn't have enough plates spinning already....I'm always amazed how ya maintain your sanity....but then again, we don't get to "Peek behind the Curtain".....but, I always imagine a few drops of sweat on your brow....


----------



## babsbag

I maintain my sanity by thinking to myself if I get one more thing done then I can relax...problem is this... I may get that thing done and then another project comes along...hope springs eternal. 

I am definitely the product of my parents. As a child I think that the only time my dad didn't have a project he was working on was when he was in church. Even Sunday afternoons were work days but he always made time for Sunday morning and evening services...and Wed. night prayer meetings. My dad died when I was 14 and my mom gave me the lawn mower and the directions to the pool filter and I was on my own with learning how to do some of the things my dad used to do.  I think it all started right there, I haven't relaxed since. It is just the way I am bent.

Not sure what to do with Alondra. Someone needs to make boarding kennels specifically for dogs in heat. No boys allowed.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I think it all started right there, I haven't relaxed since. It is just the way I am bent.


Would you care to come bend my DD's??


----------



## misfitmorgan

Yep i could use the bend too please


----------



## Baymule

You might have to hot wire a yard for her. That's what we finally had to do with our GP.


----------



## babsbag

Alondra is in the house and the kennel and I am surprised how good she is in the house once I get her here. New things are not her forte and she evidently is terrified of stairs. Good grief. Once on the deck she is ok and in the house she lays around and enjoys the cool. She is good with the dogs and the cats, no problem at all. I should have done this a few days ago so hoping I'm not too late. Francis seemed pretty interested in her last night but she wasn't standing so hoping that that didn't change over night. So for the next 10 days I have a house guest. When I go to do chores she will go with me, just not into the goat field. We will see what tonight brings. She isn't housebroken so she may have to sleep in the kennel outside and hope that she is quiet. I don't sleep well with barking dogs. 

On the goat front I have discovered that my minis are not tall enough to get their heads into the head gate and not tall enough to reach the grain in the buckets. I can make a false bottom for the buckets with a little work but not sure about the head gate issue. They need a step for their front feet but the question is will the inspector allow me to make one out of wood or do I have to make one out of steel? Or do I sell them?  I have too many goats and looking to sell about 10, but which 10?


----------



## CntryBoy777

I saw one somewhere that used PVC pipe for a head gate, and ya could make a little platform for them to stand on to raise them to the proper height. I have to consider this with my 3 cause the Boys are much taller than Star, the 100% pygmy doe we have. Some cinder blocks or bricks with a piece of plywood or rugged plastic placed across the tops would work and be easily removed for the larger ones...


----------



## babsbag

I have these fancy cascading head gates (this picture is from their web site...the buckets are on the wrong side. )







When the first goat comes in and puts their head in the gate it opens the gate next in line but you can see how tall they are and how deep the buckets are. Even some of my big girls struggle with getting in and out. I think that the big goats would like a stand for their front feet too so I might have to have the person that made my stands make me one out of the expanded metal. The code requires that the stands be metal or concrete. My other option is take the head gates off and have them cut and welded back together. Maybe next winter...


----------



## babsbag

My DH just picked up 1.5 tons of Alfalfa pellets in 50 lb bags. Now what do I do with them? $170.00 a ton, can't beat the price.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Ya could always stack them on a pallet....but I'd put a piece of cardboard on top of the pallet to help avoid nail holes in the bags.....also will allow ya to monitor any rodent activity. I truly didn't understand the scope of the situation with the headgates.....sorry bout the inept answer......


----------



## babsbag

No answers are unappreciated. Building a dairy is complicated...and so is owning 60 goats...how did that happen?  I need to go a find a pallet, I think I have one out there somewhere.


----------



## Latestarter

Glad you got the savings on the alfalfa, sorry you now need to figure out how/where to store them.


----------



## Mini Horses

Why don't you just shorten the three metal pipes at the base of those headers, lowering the entire thing?  From pic it appears those legs just fit into a sleeve at the base (welded at that point?).   Maybe that's what you were saying with the "next winter" project.


----------



## Baymule

Great buy on the alfalfa pellets!


----------



## babsbag

@Mini Horses, that is what I intend to do. Those were an A #1 pain to install on the milk stands. They are in two pieces but they are ridiculously heavy. This winter I need to take the stands out of the parlor and redo the floor...lessons learned the hard way...so at that time we will take them apart and take the head gates to a welder. I think probably 4-6  inches. I need to observe the big girls in the head gates and see if there is any reason they can't be shorter. I have one goat that has no problems, she is part moose, the others all struggle to some degree getting in and out. One little doe has learned to put her front feet on the cross bar to make herself taller, smart girl. 

The savings on the alfalfa pellets is about $11 a bag. It is about 2 hours away but bringing home 1.5 tons makes the trip ok. Next time will be 2 tons I think. Our trailer is rated for 2.5 tons but DH was a little hesitant to carry 2. 

Some of my does are looking pretty thin. I give them all the hay they want but no grain, too hard to grain 60 goats. When I started milking I have them all in a holding pen outside of the parlor so I have started feeding them a little grain or beet pulp to entice them into the pen while they are waiting to be milked and then they get grain on the stand. But the deal is they don't want to leave the milking parlor when they are done getting milked as that is where the grain in. So my plan is to bring them all into the holding corral for the parlor and lock the gate. Go and dump 100 lbs of pellets into their feeder, and then go back to milk. Hopefully the pellets will entice them to leave the parlor. If that doesn't work I will start feeding pellets on the stand and grain in the feeder waiting for them when they are done. But 100# of grain costs me 28.00 and the alfalfa is less than 10.00. I might have to figure out a mix of grain and pellets that I can afford. 

Hoping that this will get them out of the parlor and put some weight on them too.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> One little doe has learned to put her front feet on the cross bar to make herself taller, smart girl.


Maybe you just need a 4x4 or 4x6 "step up" block at the front of each one?


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> Maybe you just need a 4x4 or 4x6 "step up" block at the front of each one?



I am not sure how my dairy inspector will feel about that if it is made of wood.  But I am thinking about using it now for a trial to see if it works. 

I have 20 goats too many, some body needs to come and get some. I started raising the minis thinking I might transition to them entirely but I can't make that commitment yet and in the meantime I have too many goats. I started a list of "have to keep", "might keep", "sell" and they all ended up in the "have to keep" list for one reason or another. Some of the reasons aren't very practical but it is really hard to transition from hobby owner to business owner. Some of these goats have been with me a long time and some of these goats won't be understood by anyone but me. I need someone to come over here and make the hard choices for me. The other problem is that they are not really "family milkers". They do ok on the stand, but they aren't overly excited to see me unless I have grain and can be downright hard to catch at times.  Makes it a hard sell. I keep seeing the word "auction" floating around in my head.


----------



## Baymule

You have some hard decisions to make.....


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## CntryBoy777

If I was closer I'd let ya move them here, and ya could come visit them anytime ya wished....it'd be like ya was renting the pasture for $1/yr.....


----------



## farmerjan

The sad thing is there is a time that some have to go...we do not run an old age home for cows either, but still.... it is sometimes hard to make the cut.  If they are the older, maybe not making as much milk ones, hard to catch, not very personable then they would probably be on my short list.  I know they make the short list of the cows, but luckily  all they have to do is get bred and raise a decent calf yearly and pretty much stay.  Have one now, that has nubs for teeth, stays fat, gets pregnant, raises a nice calf, is a B$%#@H to get in the catch pen.....but as long as she is getting pregnant, stays in good flesh and raises a decent calf she gets a pass....my son laughed this year when she wound up preg again...and just said hey mom your favourite cow is preg.....her daughters are also hard to get in but they do a real crackerjack job of raising calves.....but you can't sell the ones making money.

Luckily cows mostly only have one offspring at a time, don't know how I would deal with so many youngins' at a time....and handling them as closely as you all do would make them more in the pet category.....But my dairy calves, jerseys and guernseys, do get more personalized attention and I do get more attached.


----------



## babsbag

I have a friend that is going to raise my kids for me next year, of course I will supply the milk and pay her too. The bucklings will get sold ASAP as will any doelings I don't want to keep (keep...there's that word again). So this next group of kids should all be friendly little bottle babies. 

And now the rest of the story... I bought a new Alpine buck. He is French Alpine and DNA tested to carry a double gene for high Alpha S1 Casein protein which is proven to make better cheese. So by carrying the double gene each one of his kids will inherit and least one gene and it only takes one to make good cheese. So herein lies the problem...I should keep ALL of his doelings from next year.    Someone come and save me from myself. Having mature does in milk and replacement kids at the same time makes for a cozy barn.  I am also keeping my old buck just in case this boy doesn't settle anyone, you never know with a new young buck and I need a backup plan. 

Gosh this is confusing. @CntryBoy777 I'd take you up on that offer in a heartbeat.  I do have someone that would probably buy all I want to sell but darn it, its hard to think about "quality of life". They have served me well, I feel like I owe them something in return.


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## Mike CHS

Babs - you give a whole new meaning to 'Goat Math' but I do feel for the choices you have to make and probably soon.


----------



## misfitmorgan

It was very hard for me too when i decided to cut back on goats and get rid of the mini's. I loved them and was worried the new owner wouldnt understand their quirks. The new owner just got a hold of me last month to tell me how much he still loves them and how they were doing. Apparently he understand them just fine and I was worried for no reason. Will every goat you sell be a happy story, no but it is rare for everything to always turn out well.

We are looking at taking my pet pig(450lbs) to the auction to sell for meat because she is infertile...she is my pet but feeding her for her lifetime would be way to expensive and she has no purpose on the farm. I'm not going to like it but it is how it has to be otherwise we will end up with 20 pet pigs and be broke.

If they dont give a good amount of good milk, hold weight well, or are a pain in the butt to do anything with always...there is no reason for them to be there on the dairy farm. We all worry about what will happen to them when we sell any animal but we just hope for the best and do what our farms need the most to keep running smoothly, have enough room for all livestock, quality feed, etc.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Some of the reasons aren't very practical but it is really hard to transition from hobby owner to business owner.


Yep! That is the high hurdle you need to clear. I'm sure it won't be easy AT ALL.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I know it is extremely difficult, but if it were me, I'd rather send them off healthy and well.....say goodbye and deal with the emotions after that......than for them to be around til they get sick, linger, and die. It is inevitable and I'd rather remember them at their best, than to watch them suffer and always wonder if I did something wrong to cause it, or overlooked something.
Since you are building and running a business, the CEO side has to dictate the running of a profitable business....otherwise, ya won't be in business for very long. If ya had plenty of land, room, and space ya could have a personal "Herd" and a dairy "Herd", but with 60 running around and having to tend to each day.....it would be a killer for ya to have to tend to a separated herd too. You certainly can't make yourself responsible for the actions of others....ya can screen them as best as ya can, but ya can't control the "Events" in their lives that may put those animals at risk. Something that I learned in my corporate career is personal is personal, but business is business....decisions must be made for the betterment of the business irregardless of the personal consequences. Your anguish reveals your character, seriousness, and level of care....however, they don't pay the bills or benefit ya in furthering your "Dream" that ya have worked diligently to make a "Reality".....


----------



## Devonviolet

WOW!  Well said, @CntryBoy777!

ETA:  If I ever start up a business, I want YOU for _my_ mentor!!!


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## Bruce

Yep, that Fred is a smart guy (among his other stellar qualities). I'll have to go to his journal and ask about this "corporate career".

@Devonviolet I'm sure he would be happy to do it, you just need to provide a company car for the commute.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

babsbag said:


> I bought a new Alpine buck. He is French Alpine and DNA tested to carry a double gene for high Alpha S1 Casein protein


Pictures!!  Where are the pictures! 
I am excited to see how this young buck will do.  We had some friends who needed some cash and were needing to get out from under a feed bill, so they sold me their two Alpine does (5 and 6 years old).  I have raised Boar goats but have never ventured in the dairy side of things (I am blaming BYH for this!!).  A friend is wanting the milk for soap making and is keeping them miked out until I get things setup for a larger milking operation (again, I am pointing the finger at BYH for this extra work).  I guess I should stop lurking and start my own journal!



babsbag said:


> Someone come and save me from myself.


We may have to talk soon on dairies and the little darlings that make this work.  You are about a 20 hour drive.

Keep up the great work @babsbag, you are a great wealth of knowledge and inspiration.


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## Bruce

Blame @Baymule, she is a TERRIBLE enabler!


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## babsbag

Don't blame me for the goats, blame @Southern by choice. She was the one that told me that my idea of dairy was a GREAT idea, she's the enabler.  I had about 15 goats in 2013 when this dairy thing started floating around inside of my head, and half of them were Boer.  Then I started keeping does, and then I added LaManchas, and then I added minis...oh my, the list goes on, but I did get rid of all of the Boers; many of them ended up with @ragdollcatlady .

@HomeOnTheRange  just let me know when you want to talk dairy. My plan for this morphed into a whole lot more than it was in the beginning. I was going to be a Grade B dairy, and then I bought the processing trailer with a bottler...Grade A here I come. I was going to bucket milk, then I found an awesome deal on a complete small dairy setup in NC (45 minutes from @Southern by choice ) and my DH became the enabler and convinced to buy it. I would have been done by now with bucket milking, but this setup is just amazingly awesome, but not what I had planned. Then I bought the land next to us and the number of goats I can own went for 30 to 78 (no no no...I will not own 78 goats) and having the automatic milking setup makes it possible to milk more goats in less time...See where this is headed?

I have been blessed on this project but after spending 2 days doing waste plumbing lines and vents and crawling around under a trailer I don't feel blessed, but I know that I am and so is this dairy. (I'm alive, I didn't see any rattlesnakes, the one trailer is done...blessed. )

If anyone needs any Alpines please send them my way. 

And I'll have to get some pictures of my buck.


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## Bruce

If you had 2 milking machines you could have 156 goats


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## babsbag

Fortunately the county restricts the number of goats to 6 per acre. At least someone is saving me from myself.


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## babsbag

Here's a "rear view" of a few of the girls lined up for milking, and the glass pipe and milk receiver jar full of the fruits of their labor.

The guy that came and finished the install of this system was surprised to see glass; it is pretty much a thing of the past. I really like it, I think it is full of charm.


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## goatgurl

what a beautiful site.  you've come a long way lady.


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## Latestarter

YAY!! That looks GREAT! and on a side note, looking at the body condition of the does I can see in the pic, I'm no longer concerned about Bang. She looks almost exactly like them (too skinny/boney! )...


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## Devonviolet

WOO HOO!!!  Oh, Babs!  How exciting to see your equipment in action!  

Congratulations on a job well done!


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## babsbag

@Latestarter   Yeah, they look like dairy goats. 

I have a few that are too skinny but it is the same ones every year and they just don't hold their weight well while milking and it is 114°. I have just added 100 lbs a day of alfalfa pellets to the feeders so we will see if this helps. I have also added probiotics and Calf Manna to the grain for the ones that are in milk.


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## Latestarter

Sorry Babs... I wasn't commenting negatively... I have been told that's how dairy goats are supposed to look... They just look too skinny to me... It's a personal problem.


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## misfitmorgan

My grandparents culled their diary cows that were to skinny. I asked grandpa why they had to go cause i watched them in the holding pen and thought they were so pretty. Grandpa said "If they dont hold weight on their second baby they wont on their 3rd or 4th" I assume that was his short way of saying its only going to go more and more downhill so logically they shouldnt be on a high production farm. I still thought the cows were to pretty to be sent away.

I do understand why it was done, it was a dairy farm so its not like they could just not milk her and everything would be fine.

I still think dairy goats are to skinny looking to but thats how they are.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Fortunately the county restricts the number of goats to 6 per acre. At least someone is saving me from myself.


I heard a rumor that there are 100 acres for sale right next door to you. Good price too if the land stays in ag, per the current owner's desires. 



babsbag said:


> The guy that came and finished the install of this system was surprised to see glass; it is pretty much a thing of the past. I really like it, I think it is full of charm.


I would think one would like to see what is flowing through.


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## CntryBoy777

That is Amazing!!......so glad that it is coming together for ya and the milk is Flowing....


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## babsbag

@Latestarter don't worry about it, I didn't take it personally at all. When it comes to goats I know what I have and I don't live with blinders on. There are a few that are way too skinny, I need to build a 3rd feeder too...put that on my to do list right there along with buck pens.  All of my Alpine does but 3 are descendants of my first three goats and I certainly see some some genetic traits that I would like to start weeding out. When I bought my buck I would have loved to have bought a doe or two from him too but it wasn't in the budget. His goats were gorgeous, but they were also on irrigated pasture and not living where it is hot. I really believe that the heat takes its toll on them body condition wise.


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## Simpleterrier

Alot of times the the animals that look the worst to some are actually the healthiest and produce the most. Beef don't milk well


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## babsbag

The #1 genetic trait that I would like to weed out is the amount of tissue in the udder. I have quite a few goats that don't milk out to the "empty glove" look. I just say that they are a "Double D" and I would like them to be an A or a B.  Since I milk once a day that is important to me as I have read that the goats with less tissue perform better on once a day milking.  

The #2 trait is feet...


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## Baymule

You just keep chugging along. Setbacks don't keep you down, crazy neighbors don't stop you, you are there! I have followed your Dairy, you have done magnificent!


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## babsbag

Thanks @Baymule, it has taken about 3 times longer and costs three times more than I had planned but the end is in sight. I have started studying for the state Pasteurizer exam that I have too take...Gosh, I don't miss school one bit.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Gosh, I don't miss school one bit.


 I hear you! I don't miss it and I don't miss driving off to work 5 days a week either 

Perhaps you need to visit @OneFineAcre next time you make it to NC and see if any of his very fine specimens will fit in your suitcase.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Bruce said:


> I hear you! I don't miss it and I don't miss driving off to work 5 days a week either
> 
> Perhaps you need to visit @OneFineAcre next time you make it to NC and see if any of his very fine specimens will fit in your suitcase.


I think if she was committed to the mini's she wouldn't have to put one in her suitcase 
I could ship her some semen that might help jump start that program


----------



## OneFineAcre

The new Toggs have made me really appreciate how Nigerians are such easy keepers


----------



## babsbag

When I was dragging a mini into the parlor I was pretty appreciative of their size.

As far as being committed to minis, the vote is still out. I only have three in milk right now and they are all still raising kids so that doesn't help either.


----------



## babsbag

My new buckling decided today that he wanted to jump a fence to be with the girls and he got his leg stuck. I have no idea how long he was hanging there but I found him literally hanging over the fence by his hind leg. It very well be broken but it will be Monday before I can get him to a vet. 

Why is it that a goat you have no financial or personal interest in will live for ever and one you pay for with either your pocket book or your heart tries to die (and sometimes they do)? 

Glad I still have my old buck, I may need him this year.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry Babs  Hope it's not broken and just a strain/sprain.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh my goodness!.....sure hope he turns out to be okay Babs, that is terrible.....


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> When I was dragging a mini into the parlor I was pretty appreciative of their size.


Why drag, just carry the little bundle!


----------



## Hens and Roos

hope your buck's leg isn't broken!


----------



## Baymule

My first thought was...... a disgusted, well $hit.  I have to agree, one you don't like will live forever  and one that you paid a lot of money for or that is your very favorite will get hurt, sick  or die. It just ain't fair! I hope he does recover. I know he will get the best of care from you, you are a good goat mommy.


----------



## OneFineAcre

That's awful 
I hope he's ok


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh wow - hope he's ok!


----------



## Southern by choice

seriously
heavy sigh
well if the leg needs amputated he can still breed- trying to keep positive


----------



## Green Acres Farm

Southern by choice said:


> seriously
> heavy sigh
> well if the leg needs amputated he can still breed- trying to keep positive


Then we'll have 2 three-legged bucks on BYH! 

Hope he's OK!


----------



## babsbag

Well I paid the price and took him to the emergency vet today. My vet is going to be out tomorrow and I was worried about a possible splintered break and didn't need any other problems to arise. So they did an x-ray and didn't see any obvious breaks that they can set. She said that his hock joint looked a little "interesting" to her and she was going to do some research and comparison and see what she can discover. I am taking him back in the morning so they can make a cast for him. She is hoping that since he is young immobilization will give it a chance to heal. So no leg amputation yet. 

And seriously, can a buck short a back leg really manage to breed?

Last but not least, Mia is in heat...I am not separating her and Francis. Alondra will be going back into the field in a few days, she has been a very good girl but I will be happy to return the girl with barn manners back to the barn.


----------



## Latestarter

Glad to hear there's no obvious break. Hope he recovers fully. So does this mean you are going to allow Mia to have pups?


----------



## babsbag

I am going to let her have pups. She was a stubborn puppy but she is a great LGD. She doesn't leave her goats, she goes everywhere with them. She doesn't bark, jump, dig, climb, or chase and she often comes when I call (LOL). She is not overly fond of people she doesn't know but that is probably ok, just not a trait I like when I need a house sitter.


----------



## Baymule

Puppies! They aren't even conceived yet, but we want pictures! LOL


----------



## Green Acres Farm

babsbag said:


> And seriously, can a buck short a back leg really manage to breed?


Yes, they can. Our buck who lost a leg was able to.


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> So does this mean you are going to allow Mia to have pups?


And will there be a female pup for Mel??



babsbag said:


> And seriously, can a buck short a back leg really manage to breed?


Where there is a will, there is a way!


----------



## misfitmorgan

I'm sorry for the troubles Babs...I hope your buck heals up!

I've seen 3 legged dogs breed so im sure a buck could manage.


----------



## babsbag

Jumanji has a broken leg, actually a broken bone in his hock. The plan was to cast it and pray that it works as $3000 for orthopedic surgery wasn't in the cards.  Then  tonight it was discovered that he has a septic joint as well. He did cut his leg when he hooked it but we didn't think it had infiltrated the joint, obviously it did. I am into this for $$$ and still no guarantee at this point that he will even live.


----------



## Latestarter

Jeeze louise.... so sorry babs   Sure hope he makes it and your investment isn't all for naught...


----------



## CntryBoy777

What a turn of events.....hopefully his youth will play to your advantage and he can recover.


----------



## Baymule

That really sucks.  I hope he makes it, even as a cripple, he could still breed.


----------



## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear,  that he can recover from it!


----------



## babsbag

Green Acres Farm said:


> Yes, they can. Our buck who lost a leg was able to.



How did your buck loose a leg? How old was he?


----------



## Green Acres Farm

babsbag said:


> How did your buck loose a leg? How old was he?


After a dog attack, huge chunks of muscle were gnawed off up to his hip. He was a year.


----------



## Bruce




----------



## OneFineAcre

Very sorry to hear that.
I hope he is OK.


----------



## babsbag

I just got a late evening (6:00) phone call from the vet. I didn't talk to her but she said that Jumanji is doing well. He is eating (like a pig), walking with his little splint on, and looking much better than last night. They are flushing the joint again and using an antibiotic and she made it clear that the drug was extra label use and that he could not be used for slaughter. Well fortunately for him he is an Alpine and not headed for freezer camp.  So glad that he is at least not any worse. Septic joints are scary and I wasn't sure that I was making the right decision.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Pheeew!!....that's a relief and good news to Hear, for sure.


----------



## Latestarter

things progress in the direction they seem headed.


----------



## babsbag

Alondra has been ruined...she doesn't want to leave the AC. I had to put a leash on her and walk her to the barn; she really enjoyed her life of leisure and runs back to the house when she gets a chance.


----------



## Bruce

Send her to @Latestarter, he needs a second house dog 




babsbag said:


> she made it clear that the drug was extra label use and that he could not be used for slaughter.



EVER?? Seems reasonable for a short period of time but a year down the line?? (If he weren't an alpine not slated for that sort of thing).


----------



## dejavoodoo114

Bruce said:


> EVER?? Seems reasonable for a short period of time but a year down the line?? (If he weren't an alpine not slated for that sort of thing).


I was wondering the same thing!

Very sorry to hear about your new buck's situation. I had one of my wonderful, expensive young doelings that I bought this year die. Overeating I am pretty sure. Devastating. Meanwhile, the no money invested goats are great....

As far as your buck pens go, why do you want them separated like that? Couldn't you make a smaller shed and have that whole area behind it fenced in for all of them? Unless you are planning on putting the girls in their individual pens for breeding. 7 goats can easily fit in and sleep together under say, 7x7'. Then you could have another 'stall' under the roof for specific breedings right? Or two... That would give you a smaller shed and more flexibility with the amount of bucks you may have in the future.

I am so glad you posted more pictures of your dairy! I love seeing your set up!


----------



## Latestarter

babsbag said:


> Alondra has been ruined...she doesn't want to leave the AC.





Bruce said:


> Send her to @Latestarter, he needs a second house dog



Oh my... Mel is now at the point that when bed time is approaching, he heads into my bedroom to lie down, thinking "out of sight, out of mind" & hoping I'll forget him and he'll get to spend the night inside. Normally he prefers to lay down on the hardwood floor as it's cooler. The bedrooms are carpeted. Other than that he normally lays down wherever I happen to be, or at least close by, and under a ceiling fan if possible


----------



## Bruce

RIGHT, how would ANYONE notice a ~140 pound white blob on the floor??

I think it is time to implement the "how to return a LGD to his rightful duties" 12 step program Joe! After all, he can't use the "but I don't have anything to guard" excuse anymore 

Given your hot, humid and rainy weather, I don't blame him  Maybe he'll be happier to be out come fall.


----------



## Latestarter

Come fall he won't have a choice. I only "allow" him to be inside most of the day because I don't care for the hot humid weather either and I don't wear a fur coat. If it's miserable for me, I have to imagine he's not all that comfy either. Yeah, I know, goats have fur too... and cows are all dressed in leather year round. But they aint a dog. I'm not too concerned with coyotes or other predators during the day and I'm up and about if something happens. It's night time that I really need his eyes and ears doing what they're designed to do. I can back him up if he lets me know and needs it. I'm a pretty light sleeper nowadays, if I get to sleep at all... mostly it's an off and on doze.

Well, sun's been drying out the wet pasture and there seems to be a pretty decent breeze (but it's STILL hot & humid!), so time to go pound T-posts. Later!


----------



## babsbag

@dejavoodoo114   I will ask about the medication and slaughter when I talk to her, only out of curiosity.  

As far as the buck pens go, I want to be able to breed certain goats to certain bucks and not worry about having to pull them out to separate them.  I have decided on 4 instead of 7 as I have a few I won't be using this year if all goes as planned and they will be up for sale eventually.  I will do a section of stock panel between each pen and remove it after breeding so the bucks can be together. My boys all respect the hot wire so I don't need to build fort Know. 

I need to get started on this ASAP.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Bruce said:


> I think it is time to implement the "how to return a LGD to his rightful duties" 12 step program Joe! After all, he can't use the "but I don't have anything to guard" excuse anymore


That is the thing. This dogs has been raised as a companion/house dog for the last 2.5 years, since he was a pup. He is not a LGD, maybe later he will become one? Maybe not? Genetics only go so far. Not every lab likes to go into a pond  But this is what Mel has been taught and known. Not putting @Latestarter down over it, but before he gets a female to breed to Mel see what ya got first.


@babsbag I am so so so sorry about your buckling. I was so shocked when I read about it... Poor guy, poor you, and poor pocket book  Really hoping he pulls through. I was so excited for you when you got him, you know how much I liked those genetics.


----------



## Baymule

It is sounding hopeful for your buck. When you get him home, give him a stern talking to!

NO jumping the fence!
NO stepping in gopher holes!
NO falling down!
NO playing hop scotch!
NO playing leap frog!
NO MORE BROKEN LEGS!

Then give him a hug.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Just catching up on this - so sorry about your little guy - but hope that he continues to make progress!


----------



## ragdollcatlady

So sorry to hear about your buck kid! It is always the best or favorite goats that manage to get into trouble! Hoping he comes around OK.


----------



## babsbag

Jumanji is coming home in the morning.    Of course he still has a long ways to go and she says that it is hard to assess the septic joint based on his use of it as he is in a splint/cast so not really using the joint. He is up and "walking" and eating like a pig.  He will now officially have the honor of being the most expensive goat I have ever owned. 

@dejavoodoo114   FYI...The antibiotic they have him on has an 18 month withholding, don't remember the name but it is a heavy hitter.


----------



## Mini Horses

Thrilled e's being released from hospital!  While you recite those rules Bay suggests, he will be contemplating his next escape  while giving you the "OK, mom, WHATEVER!!" look. 

Loved seeing the dairy in use and all the "stuff" for it.  It's interesting for all of us who only do "a couple" and are living our dreams thru your hard work!  You go!


----------



## babsbag

Waiting one more day to bring Jumanji home.  That vet wants to assess the joint fluid tonight after she flushes it and she wants to be at the clinic to give me more instructions on wrapping, etc. This vet is new to me and they have both a large animal clinic and a small animal clinic and today she is at the small animal clinic. So far I really like this vet.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Come fall he won't have a choice. I only "allow" him to be inside most of the day because I don't care for the hot humid weather either and I don't wear a fur coat. If it's miserable for me, I have to imagine he's not all that comfy either.



I have 2 dogs currently and pets aren't ever allowed inside the house here unless sick or injured and it has to be pretty serious for us to bring one in.  One is a German Shepard mix, with a heavy haircoat and he sheds constantly. Considering what he has been thru healthwise, and his age, he is in pretty good shape and is fully acclimated to local temps and humidity. Both dogs follow wife and I on our daily bicycle rides, which lately has been 7 miles and tho they lag behind on uphill parts, they'll break into a run and catch up if we call their names.
More than once, we've gotten back to the house, and even after following us, at least trotting the whole way, they'll hear something in the forest and break into a run and chase it down, up a tree or off into the forest.   They have gotten much stronger since we began our exercise routine, and as soon as they see us get the bikes down, they're rarin to go. (lots more than I am some days)
I do keep a fan running on the front porch for them in the late afternoons, but they prefer to lay on the soft ground and kinda wallow themselves out a shallow hole under the back porch.


----------



## babsbag

Jumanji is home but it is going to take some prayers and the miracle to pull him though this. The joint is hot and swollen and even after some heavy antibiotics and flushing out the joint he still has bacteria in the joint. I was given more antibiotics to give him so we will see how it goes. 

I have spent my budget x3 so far and an amputation would be almost as much as I have already spent. This is a really tough spot and not sure which way to go.


----------



## Devonviolet

Wow!  That is so tough, Babs!!!  My prayers are certainly with you!!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

OH man....that's scary!  So sorry it's not the best news...but praying he can pull through.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I sure am pulling for the little fella....and don't want to sound heartless, but if the cost of a new buck is cheaper than the amputation....I'd rather spend the $$ on another "Promising" buck than hoping another procedure might work.


----------



## Hens and Roos

that he pulls through it for you!


----------



## Baymule

You had to take him to the vet and try. I hope he pulls through this. But as @CntryBoy777 said, if further treatment is more than just buying another buck, you might want to let this one go. What a tough place to be in. Or you can just run and jump in the deep end, pull out all the stops and do everything you can to save him. Even if he only has 3 legs, he can still breed. no keeping a horny old goat down....


----------



## babsbag

He has some special genes for making cheese and the breeder does not have anymore bucks for sale that carry both the A and B variant.

https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/alphas1.php

Since he carries both the A/B variant his offspring will all carry A or B plus whatever their dam brings to the party.

Testing for this is not all that common and I was really lucky to find him and he "was" at a price I could afford...HA HA.


----------



## Bruce

Um, is he old enough to collect for AI??
You know, just in case. I surely do hope that infection leaves soon and he is A1!!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

IF it comes down to it - I'd go for the amputation.  Easy for me to say since it's not my money!  But, you've got so much into him now it would be a shame for it all to be for naught.

After he heals he should still be good to breed.  OR - like Bruce mentioned...can he be collected? 

How about a "go fund me" page?


----------



## Green Acres Farm

Hope everything works out!


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I really hope he can pull through this 

I hate to even say this, because I really really really hope it doesn't turn this way, BUT if it is looking really bad you may be able to harvest his testicles. I don't know how many straws you'd get but maybe save some of the genetics. This was done with our doe's grandsire. He was a very influential and when he passed away at 10 years old (owners were with him) they harvested his testicles and harvested approx 200 straws. He will need to be DNA typed...

 Again, I hate to even say this and am praying for your guy to pull through


----------



## babsbag

He is running a temp. tonight. 104.4 

Not sure what I am going to do...


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry Babs... not much to say that hasn't already been said. Really tough predicament for you to be in.


----------



## babsbag

Thanks everyone for the thoughts and prayers. I will get him through this weekend and then talk to my regular vet, she is a goat person. I am little concerned with the choice of long acting antibiotics for a goat. A little red flag went off when they told me "We don't suggest alfalfa for male goats because of the calcium"...Really ???   I got my degree (HA HA) from BYH and Google and I even know that it isn't the calcium level that is a problem. 

So with that in mind everything else is being examined and rated by me...do they know goats or don't they? I'm not really sure. I also wish that they had cultured it, but they said that they usually don't because of the expense. Seriously? What's another $100 at this point. Every infection my goats have ever had have been cultured for sensitivity. It isn't THAT much money. 

I thought about collecting him but I can buy straws from the breeder for less. But the person that I was going to have do the AI isn't doing it for other people anymore which means that I would be on my own so perhaps it would be a waste of more money. I am going to class in Oct. but that doesn't mean I can settle any of them. 

Life is complicated enough without these kinds of decisions. Did I mention 800.00 for an amputation?


----------



## Bruce

Ouch


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## Baymule

What's to day at this point? That sinking feeling in your gut, that damned if you do, damned if you don't. Do it, don't do it. Kick yourself later if you don't, wonder what if.

Whatever you do, we're all here for you. Big hugs.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

babsbag said:


> Did I mention 800.00 for an amputation?


Our buck's amputation was $950.


----------



## babsbag

Whatever I decide I have been and will be spending my inheritance. My mom was always supportive of my dairy and pretty much anything else I did in life but I wonder what she is thinking watching all of this from above. Not that it is swaying my decision, I'm more practical than that, but it does give me pause when thinking that I am spending "her" money. Quite the conundrum I have gotten myself into.


----------



## Bruce

You aren't deciding if you should blow money to keep some mongrel goat alive. This buck was a not inexpensive part of your herd improvement plan. Since she was supportive of your dairy I bet she's thinking: Do what you think is best, I have no use for the money now .


----------



## Baymule

babsbag said:


> Whatever I decide I have been and will be spending my inheritance. My mom was always supportive of my dairy and pretty much anything else I did in life but I wonder what she is thinking watching all of this from above. Not that it is swaying my decision, I'm more practical than that, but it does give me pause when thinking that I am spending "her" money. Quite the conundrum I have gotten myself into.


My mom would be thinking she should come back from the dead so she could take her money back!


----------



## babsbag

Jumanji is still running a temp but he is acting fine for a goat with a cast. But there is something interesting about him...ever since I rescued him off of the fence he has had raspy breathing and a little cough. I would think that if he has developed pneumonia that all of the antibiotics would keep it in check....I don't know if a bacteria that causes a septic joint can cause pneumonia too. Poor guy.


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> My mom would be thinking she should come back from the dead so she could take her money back!


And use it to pay for whatever medical attention @babsbag deems necessary


----------



## Goat Whisperer

babsbag said:


> Jumanji is still running a temp but he is acting fine for a goat with a cast. But there is something interesting about him...ever since I rescued him off of the fence he has had raspy breathing and a little cough. I would think that if he has developed pneumonia that all of the antibiotics would keep it in check....I don't know if a bacteria that causes a septic joint can cause pneumonia too. Poor guy.


Hoping you get the pneumonia knocked down quickly. What antibiotic was he on?


----------



## babsbag

He is on Nuflor and Exceed. Both should work on pneumonia with no problems but I am going to ask tomorrow about changing him to Clindamycin, I would like him off a long acting drug.


----------



## babsbag

He is still acting like a goat, sniffing at the ladies, calling when the herd left to be milked, and still running a fever of 104. No better, no worse. 

This has really been bugging me and I am going to rant...

Places like vet offices need to be careful what is said in the "privacy" of the back office when their are clients in the waiting room. The attending vet was asking another vet to look at the slide of the joint fluid and I heard him say "he just needs to be dead". Glad that he was not my attending vet, however I believe that he is the owner of the clinic... I wonder if he would have said the same about a horse or cattle?   My goat, my time, my money. I will be discussing Jumanji with my "goat vet" on Monday.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> I heard him say "he just needs to be dead".



No excuse for that - simply no excuse.  While that may be his opinion - there are much better ways to state that - even to a fellow vet.  Geeze - I'd be tempted to say something to them.

I'm really glad you have another vet option.


----------



## Mike CHS

Even though it will do no good I would make my feelings known.


----------



## goats&moregoats

Definitely speak up about it. Hopefully you see some progress in the right direction soon.


----------



## Baymule

Now you know how that vet truly feels about goats. Very unprofessional behavior.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I would probably let out some of the inner frustration with some uncontrolled words.


----------



## farmerjan

Have to fully agree with FEM.  Regardless of whether the vet's opinion is right or wrong, it is his opinion......But he had NO business saying it like that even in the "back office"where his voice could be heard, or even during office hours at all.  Maybe he hates goats, that is his priviledge, but as you said.. it is your goat, your money,  and in your case a financial investment in YOUR BUSINESS....  I don't hate goats but have no especial bond with them;  that said, maybe he thinks you are one of those "crazy people" that thinks a goat is a substitute for your children/spouse/whatever.  I think that some people do go WAY overboard on what they spend on their "pets" and treat them as if they were a "human" equivalent.  But again, it is their money.....

   Yes we farm for a living, and yes we make choices on our animals..... but we kept a bull that had a fractured bone in his hock joint that our vet---who we really liked---- said that our best bet would be to ship him as it was a big risk to see if he would be able heal and breed.  He was a sweetheart of a bull, we kept him for 6 months with no other cattle but with the sheep;  let it heal and other than an enlarged joint, went on to use him for 4 or 5 more years as a breeder.  Only when he was having trouble getting up from the arthritis, and winter was coming on, did we make a very difficult decision to ship him before he could get down or suffer.  We were lucky that he went directly on a truck to slaughter not through the sale ring,  but we could not at that time afford to bury 2,000 worth of bull.  He was also pushing 11 or 12 years old,  so it wasn't like he didn't have a good life.

I think once you talk to your goat vet, that if I remember rightly you really like, i would also ask if there is any other vet that you could use in an emergency like this,  and explain why.  I also think that it is your right and even your responsibilty, to say something to this other vet.  But perhaps your own vet will do that since this other vet was covering for your regular vet.  It might make your regular vet make some other choices for an emergency vet when they are off duty.

I agree on hopefully getting the goat off the excede, and I am not all that thrilled with nuflor in most cases.  Is Draxxin approved for goats  or even been tested to use it off label?    There are other old antibiotics, that are no longer approved for livestock that are to be used for slaughter,  but are used still for pets, floremphenicol ( I am not spellings that right) but it used to be a last ditch drug for our VERY sick calves....  

Hope your trip to your own vet will give you some better alternatives.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

babsbag said:


> Places like vet offices need to be careful what is said in the "privacy" of the back office when their are clients in the waiting room. The attending vet was asking another vet to look at the slide of the joint fluid and I heard him say "he just needs to be dead". Glad that he was not my attending vet, however I believe that he is the owner of the clinic... I wonder if he would have said the same about a horse or cattle?  My goat, my time, my money. I will be discussing Jumanji with my "goat vet" on Monday.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I would definitely let him know that you heard what he said and that you did not appreciate it.
I would probably write a letter myself.
Better able to be rational and not get worked  up.  I can get worked  up.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

I think we should ALL write a letter to that vet 
Did you happen to catch his name?


----------



## babsbag

I did not catch his name but I believe that he is probably the owner of the clinic. They are the only vet in the entire county that will see large animals on an emergency basis and the only one that makes farm calls. Fortunately I can usually take my goats in when I need to and my long time vet sees them in her office. She does not do farm calls anymore as she is a one man office so hard to get out. I have not said anything yet, I was waiting until I wasn't so mad.

Now the good news, Jumanji seems to be doing better. I took him to my vet and she did not change his drugs, but she is upping the dose and having me do it daily. She was a little miffed that they hadn't cultured the joint. 

I gave him Banamine last night, but 20 hours later his temp was normal. Was it the drug still...I doubt it. He had been running a temp even with Banamine. He seems in good spirits, eats like a pig... he does have an upper respiratory something but his lungs are clear. She looked at his x-ray and said that not only was the Talus bone in his hock broken but it was dislocated but that there isn't much to be done but let it heal. He will probably limp forever but the joint should be sound. She says that he is young and a Caprine and it will heal.  She is recasting his leg tomorrow. She does not like the height of his current cast and thinks it will give him sores on his stifle, and she is putting a walking bar on the cast so he doesn't drag his toes. 

I just spent a fortune on drugs...hoping he gives me a whole bunch of doelings next year. This puts me about a month behind on breeding my Alpines this year. But if he alive and well I'll take it.


----------



## Latestarter

Really glad and happy for you that things seem to be working out, but what an unneeded expense! I hope he gives you all doelings, like 2-3 per goat.


----------



## Hens and Roos

that he continues to improve for you


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Sounds like things are taking a positive turn!  YAY - so happy to hear it!


----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> I hope he gives you all doelings, like 2-3 per goat.


That might depend just a bit on the does, no??

Glad your "real" vet is more thorough. Did the "e-vet" expect his cast to be temporary??

I think in the future you'll have to have your animals agree to get injured ONLY when your regular vet is at work


----------



## Simpleterrier

I wouldn't have a problem with a vet telling me an animal should be put down or better off dead and just because you over heard it I won't say a thing. It's time for thicker skin and not to take offense to every little thing out of someone's mouth. You did what u thought best and he said what he thought best two different ideas but they both can be right. 

I could be wrong on this but I do believe that the male determines what the offspring will be.


----------



## Bruce

What they are, gender wise, but quantity? Not being a goat person I don't know which side influences that.
BTW, in chickens it is the HEN that determines gender.


----------



## babsbag

I agree that a vet should voice his honest opinion, but it was his tone. And the fact that he was looking at a slide of joint fluid that they just collected and it was possible that the fluid was contaminated by the bottle of stain, they told me that. There was no way to know if the joint was truly infected or not. He wasn't even the attending vet and probably never even saw the goat.   I can bet no comment would have been made about a horse or cow. This is "just a goat" and I can just get another one.  The goat was not in obvious pain, (any broken joint obviously hurts some), he had a good appetite, he was alert and inquisitive. A few more days of my money wouldn't do any harm. 

@Bruce the cast was going to be replaced as he grew, it was really a cast cut in half being used a splint. 

Right now the goat is getting a new cast, his temp was normal last night, he still have a good appetite and he is trying to get to the ladies already. He may have dodged the bullet. 

Yes, the buck determines the sex and the doe determines the quantity.


----------



## Baymule

Man you and this poor boy have been through the wringer! I wouldn't blame you if you put him in a padded cell!  So glad that he is improving.


----------



## babsbag

In a padded cell with a bunch of does.   His temp was even lower than 103.1 this morning so we are headed in the right direction.  

I need to order business cards for the dairy for an event I am participating in at TSC. And maybe some informational flyers too. I am just drawing a blank as to how much information to include on the cards. I used to be good at this stuff. I think I am just tired right now. 

Here is the logo. The goat may look like a cow, but that is Moonpie and she is one big goat, very deep bodied so she was a hard model.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Sure glad Jumanji is getting better, and sure Love the logo...Moonpie is a real "Looker" too....great choice...


----------



## babsbag

Moonpie is my first goat and I tell everyone that this is all her fault.  Found her and her two sisters on Craigslist and got lucky, I knew nothing about goats at all. Told my DH that I wanted a doe that I could milk and if I liked it I would continue and if not, I would just not breed her again. Now look at me.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Nice!


----------



## Devonviolet

Wow!  What a journey you have had with Jumanji!!!  I am so glad he has turned the corner and his temp is down!

From a medical professional perspective, that Vet stepped over the line, considering all the factors, that you have mentioned. I don't think developing a thicker skin is the issue here.  In the human medical world, if a Nurse made such a comment, he/she would have been reprimanded and written up!  I don't care if it was his opinion.  If he wasn't in the room with you, addressing YOU, he should have made darned sure _no one_ (outside that room) could hear him! it's called "patient confidentiality".  If you heard him anyone else could have heard him.  Never mind the legal ramifications of breaking patient confidentiality, it's an ethical issue' of having compassion for the patient/owner.  If it doesn't have a bearing on the treatment of the patient - KEEP YOUR (blankity blank) OPINIONS TO YOURSELF !!!
  ​
[Okay, deep breath!]   On a lighter note . . . I LOVE your logo! And NO, Moonpie _doesn't_ look like a cow!  She looks like a beautiful dairy goat, and the picture looks just like her!  You did a great job getting her likeness exactly!!!


----------



## Bruce

Baymule said:


> I wouldn't blame you if you put him in a padded cell!


Unless @babsbag is put in one first!!

Cute logo, I hope it pulls in the business. As for what to put on the card. I think if I came across that card I would be interested in what products are available. I presume at this point we are talking milk and possibly animals? If I were interested in the products I would look next for a web presence. You want to update your FB and website before you put out the cards. Nothing sends customers away permanently like out of date info. Phone number ?? Maybe or perhaps people will just pull it off the web.


----------



## Devonviolet

As far as your fliers go . . .  I'm not a marketing genius, but here are some things you might consider putting as bullet points:

* Happy, healthy dairy goats
* Creamy goat's milk
* Easily digested pasteurized goat's milk
* Better tolerated by people with dairy allergies
* Great milk replacement for babies on formula
* Makes great cheese and homemade ice cream
* Cute kid goats available for sale
* Goat's milk soap available


----------



## Baymule

I love your logo!

On the card....
I like @Devonviolet's and @Bruce's ideas!


----------



## babsbag

The logo was done by a friend I met on BYH eons ago. She lives in VA so she did all of this from my picture of Moonpie. She did the logo for my soap business too and one for a friend's farm. Very talented lady. 

Thanks for ideas. I need to update my web page and Facebook. It has been forever. To be honest, I don't even remember how to get into the web page, guess I need to investigate that again. Use or lose it...My soap one is sadly out of date too. I went out to the workshop and cleaned it today. Put away stuff that has been sitting out since Christmas. It isn't perfect but it is better and I could at least work in there now. Time to make soap and lotion for Christmas.  Maybe even teach a few classes again.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Is Moonpie a Togg crossed with something else, or a full Togg with a color fault?


----------



## babsbag

Moonpie is 3/4 Alpine x 1/4 Togg.  That brown color gene is strong.


----------



## babsbag

How do you know when a kid (goat) spends too much time with the LGDs?  Well...when the dogs go on alert and go charging out of the barn the kid follows at a full run and climbs on top of an old stump to survey the area the dogs are barking at.   Seriously need to limit her dog time.


----------



## Mini Horses

Maybe the LGDs have her in training!  If she starts to bark I'd sure worry....


----------



## babsbag

It was a movie moment for sure. I opened the gate for Mia as she won't go over it like the other dogs and the kid was hot on her heals. This little doeling spends quite a bit of time in the center aisle of the barn away from the herd as she gets her own feed, she has some catching up to do. She obviously has an identity crisis going on.


----------



## Bruce

Hmmm, Livestock Guardian Goat, novel idea. Better get her some armor!


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> How do you know when a kid (goat) spends too much time with the LGDs?  Well...when the dogs go on alert and go charging out of the barn the kid follows at a full run and climbs on top of an old stump to survey the area the dogs are barking at.   Seriously need to limit her dog time.





Bruce said:


> Hmmm, Livestock Guardian Goat, novel idea. Better get her some armor!


----------



## Baymule

Get her a spiked collar and vampire teeth....... 

Even if you got it on video, only LGD owners would understand.


----------



## babsbag

Is or is it not CL?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Yikes!  I dunno - hope not!


----------



## Green Acres Farm

Could she have gotten punctured by something?

One of my bucks had a large abscess near there and it ended up not being CL. Hope it's the same for you!


----------



## Mini Horses

lance & test.    That's first thing we "think" (CL) but, it could be an abcess of other type.   I'm sure you know it will rupture on it's own, so best to know ahead.  Cleaned out, medicated & contained it won't be able to  contaminate others.   Wear gloves for biosecurity issues.  Plus, they are handy to "catch" the material, remove glove so they turn inside out as you do....containing the exude.


----------



## babsbag

Blood was drawn today so I should know next week. I am also testing a goat that has what appears to a waddle cyst. Normally I wouldn't have tested the waddle cyst goat but two at the same time has me a little concerned. 

I would like to say that I have a clean and tested herd, but I have to say that I have a tested herd. 8 years ago when I bought my first goats I knew nothing about goats. I took one to the vet for a swollen jaw, not an abscess, but two of my goats had these small marble sized lumps under their ear. My vet was sure it was CL...it wasn't on those two...how ironic.  However when I tested all of my goats two of them tested positive for CL. Titers were low 1:16.   There has never been an abscess, never been a cough. Both goats are still with me and are very healthy. It is Moonpie and her sister RC. I have never had any other goat test positive for CL. UC Davis has said that titers up to 1:128 can be seen in both positive and negative animals. 

Every goat I have brought in has been tested once I own them or from a herd that I trust completely. That being said, I have a goat that was given to me by a friend. This goat was supposedly tested before my friend got her. I trusted her so I never tested. This is the goat that had the ear infection last year. She has had a chronic cough, won't gain weight even though she eats like a pig, and her ears are always crusty.  I am suspicious about her and we drew blood on her today too. 

Time will tell a lot.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Hoping for the best!


----------



## Devonviolet

Wow!  How frustrating!!!   I'm praying for a negative result on all your goats.  Also that the swelling is just an abscess, that heals quickly!!!


----------



## babsbag

Mini Horses said:


> lance & test.



I have never lanced an abscess on a goat. Did one on a cat many many years ago and it was oh so disgusting and smelly; the exude went flying across the room. Pretty much decided never again. I will have tests results next week, hopefully on Wed. but I don't think that this is going to last that long without bursting so I guess it is into quarantine for her or a trip to the vet. 

If I decide to lance it can I just use a large gauge needle or do I have to slit it? I don't have a scalpel and I'm not sure I could make the plunge. I guess if I did the needle and got fluid it probably isn't CL. Maybe I will start there.


----------



## Mini Horses

A large gauge needed can pull a little  out if its a thin pus type.   CL is a thick, cheesy consistency & won't flow.  That fact helps when you lance as it has to be pretty well squeezed out.  

No scalpel ==  next best is  a box of the EXTREMELY sharp cut blades that we use for those hand held cutters.  One side sharp and top side goes up slanted on each end...  buy mine at the auto shops.   They will cut you so fast you don't even feel it!!  I have been cut and never knew it until I felt the blood running down.

Any way, sterilize it with liquid and make a fast cut.  Practice on an apple, orange, etc.  a time or two and you will see how precise it is.    I have used a cloth or plastic with hole cut to put around the area if large, plastic gloves on me, goat tied to a fence or in a chute, so I could contain. They don't feel it as so sharp & fast.  Make cut in lover 1/2 of abcess at puffed out area...you can have a paper towel in your other hand to shield yourself in case it is thinner and wants to spew.  Have a bag or box to dump all the wipes, rags, whatever into. Once all squeezed out, squirt and clean with iodine, etc.  Wipe all.  Keep her separate until you know.

It's really not as messy as it sounds IF thick stuff in there.

Sometimes we have to do "battlefield" surgery & so....have.


----------



## babsbag

While checking the abscess today I noticed a pinpoint area that was very tight and hard, this lump is really a small lump on a big lump. So I decided it was time for quarantine while I went to town. But then I decided to look more closely with gloves on and it didn't take but a scratch of my fingernail to pop the head off. It was smelly, not cheesy, a little string of white pus and some blood and the flies were my best friend in a heartbeat. I didn't even come close to getting this cleaned out, she is just too strong so it will have to wait for help. I did get some iodine in it and coated her with swat (not the wound) and hoping the flies stay away. There were a lot of them on the rag, good fly attractant if you don't mind them spreading disease.   She has a nice deep hole in her neck now, I wonder if it is a fox tail.


----------



## Bruce

Better that than CL right? 
I worked for a couple of vets in So Cal way back when. Foxtails were a BIG problem.


----------



## babsbag

Pretty much anything is better than CL.  I have foxtails in my yard up by the house where the b.collies hang out. I vacuum my yard to get rid of them after I mow. I won't spray because of the dogs but gosh I hate spring and early summer and that chore.  I am seriously thinking pre-immergent herbicide and some sod on top.


----------



## babsbag

Sept. 27 the inspector is coming out to see what she can see. I am also taking two tests that day...one fora pasteurizer license and one for a sampler/weigher license so I can test my milk for antibiotics.  I am absolutely not thrilled about the tests. While I used to take exams all of the time for work my memory is not what it was back in the day. Wish me luck.

DH has this coming week off and I have a list on the white board. Really hoping that we get some of knocked out.


----------



## Bruce

Do they have practice tests so you can see what the test is like or do you just read the book and hope you focused most on the right things?


----------



## babsbag

Pretty much read 'em and pray. There is also an oral part and a practical part.  I have to show that I know how to use my pasteurizer and not sure what I have to show for the sampler/weigher test. Not looking forward to this.


----------



## Devonviolet

Well, I'll be praying that you pass with flying colors.  You have come too far to not pass the certification tests!  I'm sure the inspector wants you to succeed, as well.


----------



## Hens and Roos

that the tests go smoothly!


----------



## babsbag

Devonviolet said:


> I'm sure the inspector wants you to succeed, as well.





 If only that were true. Let's just say that we have some "history". I am willing to bet that they will go above and beyond to make this as difficult as possible for me.


----------



## goatgurl

well history or not we are gonna believe that you will pass with ease.


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## babsbag

Taffy does not have CL. She still had a big lump but she can come out of quarantine. 

Two other goats that I tested do not have CL either and Moonpie's results are marginal which is what they have been for 8 years.  This report gives results differently than what I have seen before, no titers, they use optical density. Above 1.324  is positive and 0.924 and 1.324 are considered marginal. Her reading is 1.015 so barely into the marginal range. Before I had titers on her and the were 1:16.

CAE results were negative too and Johne's I will get on Friday but I expect that to be negative too.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'm sure things will go well with the tests, just don't put too much pressure on yourself and focus on the goal and not the past "Run-Ins" with the inspector. You are one of the smartest and most respected on here, so have faith and confidence in yourself.....we all certainly do....


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Are you culturing any of the puss? 
It might not be CL but I'd still want to know what it is.


----------



## Bruce

Me too GW. It sure isn't normal. Could be a foxtail up in there, they get a lot of "protective" puss going.


----------



## Green Acres Farm

Goat Whisperer said:


> Are you culturing any of the puss?
> It might not be CL but I'd still want to know what it is.


Couldn't out be possible for her to have it and test negative even though it hasn't reached the bloodstream?

The 2x we've had abscesses, they were cultured as negative. We used WADDL.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

If it were active and causing abscesses I would think the blood test would show.

But testing the pus is the most accurate way to tell.


----------



## babsbag

I did not culture the first abscess that broke but it looks like the bigger one is coming to a head. Our flies are so bad right now I hate to have an open sore on her so I am watching it. My vet said to "tap" it with a needle, I might do that if I can get DH to hold her but that is a big IF.  I bet that there is a fox tail or sticker. 

But tonight she is out of quarantine and standing out in the field by herself. I went out to get her and chased her for about 15 min and gave up, no idea what is going through her mind. She spent the day out with the herd, she just doesn't want to come into the barn. She better hope that the dogs have her back tonight, she out on the new land and I usually shut that gate at night. 

GOATS can make a person crazy !!!!!

@CntryBoy777  thank you for the vote of confidence. I have 21 days and a million things to do. Going to be one of "those" months.


----------



## babsbag

Also, my only unknown goat as a carrier also tested negative. Moonpie has been "marginal" for 9 years and no abscess so I am confidant that she is not a carrier. My vet agrees.


----------



## Mini Horses

How's your young buck doing?  Missed the post if you've said.  He's Ok, I hope.


----------



## babsbag

He is doing well. He went in today for a cast change but the vet decided to leave the old one on. She says that it is fitting great and she was very happy with it. She wants to try and get two more weeks out of it. I am to keep giving it the smell test.  LOL   He bears weight on the leg but can't really walk as the cast goes beyond his stifle. It has been almost 4 weeks. He is being seen by my vet, I wish that she had seen him originally. My bill would have been 1/2 and his care would have been better.


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## Mini Horses

Awesome news!


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## babsbag

I was all set to get some pus out the bigger abscess that was ready to burst. It looked like a big scab on it so I scratched that off it opened the abscess up just like I expected. I had the syringe ready and got some collected and then I found a 1/4" x 1/8" sliver of wood in it.  At that point I just cleaned and flushed it out with iodine and sprayed it fly spray. No need to culture that; save my money for important stuff. She has a pretty good hole in the side of her jaw so now to keep it maggot free and she should be good to go.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Bless her heart - that had to hurt!  Glad you found it!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Well that certainly is a blessing....saved concern, gave an answer, and saved $$....now the healing can begin and shortly the discomfort will subside for her....tho, releasing the pressure has to be some relief for her now.


----------



## Bruce

Isn't it amazing what a little piece of wood can do?? Sure glad it came out, takes all the guessing out of the problem. She should start healing up fast now. Guess you need to sand the scratching posts


----------



## babsbag

Im thinking it was from a tree branch. The new land is pretty thick with manzanita, oak, and olive. It would only take one little tip to stab her and break off. Could have been the hay feeder but most of that is stock panel. Who knows. She's a goat. They do this stuff. Just glad that it is out of her.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad to hear that you figured out what was causing the problem, hope she heals fast!


----------



## Devonviolet

I'm so glad you found that piece of wood, and she is on the mend!  Now, THAT is an answer to prayer!!!


----------



## Mini Horses

And she feels better, too......


----------



## Latestarter

Very nice turn out to that evolution. Sure she'll heal well and fast.


----------



## babsbag

TSC is having pet appreciation week and they asked some people if the want to bring critters to show off and in my case advertise my dairy and my soap business. I am taking some baby mini goats, they are letting me use a dog kennel as a pen. Maybe someone will buy them as I have kinda decided that minis are just making my life too complicated.  Tomorrow I need to make more lotion first thing so it can cool before I cap and label it. Then I need to organize the soap and displays, find my banner for the dairy, print business cards and fliers, find the table and EZ up, go buy a bamboo shade, find a folding chair, gather water and feed for the babies, get ice for the ice chest, get change at the bank, pack up some eggs for sale, catch the baby goats....did I mention milk 24 goats? DH better not want dinner when he gets home. Gonna be one of those days. Hope all the critters behave tomorrow. 

As fun as the minis are it requires me keeping two more bucks...one to make minis and one to breed the minis to. It just gets crazy and I am not really breeding goats for breeding's sake, I am breeding for milk...there is a difference.  If one of the standard does get bred by the wrong buck so be it, I have a mixed breed goat that will milk well or be freezer fodder. If a mini gets bred by the wrong buck it can kill them.  I have 8 bucks right now...4 too many.


----------



## Devonviolet

Wow! Your day at TSC sounds fun!  I wish I could go.  Also sounds like a lot of work. Glad I don't have to get ready for it. 

Once you get everything set up, take a deep breath & enjoy the day!


----------



## Baymule

You are a whirlwind to be reckoned with. Hope you sell the minis. Be sure to hang a sign in the kitchen;

SUPPER HAS BEEN CANCELLED DUE TO LACK OF INTREST ON MY PART


----------



## Hens and Roos

Hope you get all the items done and have a good time @babsbag 

@Baymule I just did that last night with supper(there were left overs in the frig)and no one complained!


----------



## babsbag

DH won't complain, he likes to cook. But we are both on diets (lost 6 lbs this first week so good incentive to continue) so he had better not throw together some comfort food or mess up my kitchen. When I get home from TSC tomorrow I have to give the house a lick and a promise for company that is coming on Sunday.

And the inspector and two test are 12 days away...lots to do on that front too.


----------



## Bruce




----------



## babsbag

I sold 4 goats today and bought two... the money didn't even make it to the house...in one hand and out the other.  

Our weather has been awesome, below 80 is amazing and makes me feel like I am on vacation in the mountains. So much easier to get things done when it isn't 110°...which is good because I have a lot to do in the next 6 days. I know that I am not going to have it all perfect for the inspection but trying to decide what is the most critical. I also need to learn to use the pasteurizer, I think I will start there after milking tomorrow. I will just pasteurize water for now, no need to make it all dirty just for practicing. 

Jumanji went to visit the vet today and she is going to squeeze one more week out of his cast and then she may take it off for good. She will x-ray it first before she decides. She said that I can use him for breeding this year but that I shouldn't let him run the does, slow and easy...teach him to be a gentleman.  We will see how that goes.  I hope to get his buck pen done before then so he will have his own digs with hot wire...no more fence hoping. But I can't work on the pen until after next Wed. I seriously need a clone.


----------



## Hens and Roos

hopefully the 2 you bought are a plus for your dairy 

 for a smooth inspection!


----------



## babsbag

Our pump well died...300'  well...bad timing for sure. Hard to milk with no water.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Hope ya can get it fixed soon...
Things like that always seem to happen on a wknd or holiday. Did ya check the contacts on the pressure switch?


----------



## Bruce

Oh Babs! Mine died last year. Couldn't find anything wrong with the electric circuit, had to call the well guys. They found that one wire just under the cap had fried. The well was dug in '79 according the the guys. Why it decided to do it when it did is a mystery. They were JUST able to splice the fried wire back together. My well is 125' deep. It will cost ~$1,200 (in last year's USD) to replace the pump when it becomes necessary, more if they have to replace the wire as well. 

I hope your problem is as easily fixed!


----------



## babsbag

Not going to be an easy fix. The pump has to be pulled. Our well is 10 years old and it has a Franklin SubDrive constant pressure pump and controller. The controller is flashing a code that says that the pump is locked so it has to be pulled and replaced. The well guy says that we should replace the controller and the pump and I honestly don't know who else to trust at this point so I suppose that is what we will do but I feel like I am being taken for a ride. I also have to dismantle my deck...I knew that that was coming someday. DH told me not to worry when I built it...should have listened to my inner self on that one. And since I built it I get to unbuild it...crane would cost about 900.00


----------



## CntryBoy777

OUCH!!....must be fairly heavy if a crane is needed.


----------



## babsbag

The crane would only be needed if I don't dismantle the deck which I suppose I should get started on now.    They can get their truck in to do the job when the deck is out of the way.


----------



## CntryBoy777

When ya construct it back, adding some hinges might help...if there is a next time.


----------



## babsbag

I talked to the original driller and she says that we have PVC pipe so that being the case we did not tear out the deck. They should be able to pull it with a Up-Z-Dazy.  DH and I have also decided that we are going to stay with our constant pressure controller and not get sold something we don't need. Pull the pump, drop in a new pump and motor and be on your way. Our controller is about 1500.00 and it isn't broken.


----------



## Bruce

10, TEN years!!!!!!!! If that is a long as they are expected to last they might as well drill it and leave a hoist permanently attached over the pipe! 

Shouldn't have to rip out the whole deck, maybe pull a few boards over the well. If the deck can't support the weight of a winch to pull the pump up, I wouldn't personally ever stand on it. 

Any reason you aren't going with the original driller and getting quotes from several?


----------



## babsbag

The original driller has a very small business now after losing her husband so she was hard to get but she did talk to me about some of the details and questions I had. 

 The person here yesterday wanted to pull it with a crane mounted on the truck and he didn't think that the boom was long enough. They also thought that it was galvanized pipe. But it ends up that the pipe is PVC and the boom is long enough so I didn't need to tear up the deck. The owner was here this morning and he said, no problem. He took a picture and sent it to his worker (son-in law)...SIL says "I didn't think of that"...duh. I DID!!!!!!  The owner is a great guy, glad he came out. They are almost done. 

As far as getting bids...I would rather have water and a Sunday morning is not the time to find drillers that don't charge for emergency weekend visits. This guy does not and he had been here once before to repack the seal around the well. Also our neighbor recommended him.


----------



## Bruce

So it will be "fairly" cheap? And no new controller?
I ASSUME by "controller" you mean some electronic thing if it costs that much? The only "controller" on mine is a pressure control switch that I replaced, cost about $25 at the electric supply store.

Water soon! Might want to pull the faucet screens and run a lot of water through. I suspect there will be quite a bit of "stuff" dropped into the well from the pipe when the old pump is pulled and the new installed. Or MAYBE they will do some sort of flush prior to it hitting the pressure tank?

Still curious why it died (cause I don't know if I can say crapped out) in only 10 years.


----------



## babsbag

Jumanji got his cast off today. He is still confined to his stall for a few more weeks but it is weight bearing and the hock is not frozen. Looks really really good. Breeding is just around the corner. 

The well was not cheap. Labor was 500.00, I'm ok with that... parts were a tad bit more. It is what it is. 

This is the controller we have, the SubDrive 75. 
http://www.franklinwater.com/produc...esidentiallight-commercial/subdrivemonodrive/

Every well I have seen around here has some kind of controller to run power to the pump motor. We have a pressure switch too.
Wells that aren't constant pressure like mine use something like this. 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Steel-Control-Box/3136321


----------



## Bruce

Well I guess I DO have a control box of some sort. Says Sta-Rite well pump. The current version is $105. Is that Subdrive really $1,500??

Glad to hear Jumanji is going to be OK!!!


----------



## babsbag

Yes, it is really 1500.00 . When we had the well drilled we were quoted a price per foot of drilling and never once did we discuss other items. Neither of us had ever lived with a well so we left it up to the experts and that is what we got. It is nice that you don't notice the pump dropping pressure if something else is on but while I wouldn't pay for a new one I also didn't like the idea of abandoning one that works.


----------



## Baymule

We are on community water. One of the wells is less than a block away and is 1200 feet deep. We have really good water that tastes good. The bill runs $30-$40 a month.

A 600' well would cost in excess of $12,000. While I would really like to have a well, all rigged up with solar, it ain't gonna happen. 

Having a well is great, until it doesn't work, then it is your responsibility. Community water is great until it doesn't work, then we just wait for it to be fixed. In 3 years, it has never gone off. 

I would still like to have my own water........


----------



## babsbag

Our well was $10,000 to have drilled 10 years ago. I would like to go with a solar pump but the guy that was here working on it this weekend said with my usage it would cost about 10-15k to convert to solar...not happenin' here either. 

 The wonderful state of CA keeps threatening to put meters on our wells and charge us to use the water that we paid to access. I would like to know if they intend to maintain said well going forward...of course not.  So not only would a person have to pay to dig the well, they pay power to get the water out of the well, the pay to maintain the well, and they would pay a monthly fee to the State. Hoping that it doesn't happen in my lifetime.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> The wonderful state of CA keeps threatening to put meters on our wells and charge us to use the water that we paid to access.


That is pretty rude! Just another way to get money or an attempt to keep the aquifers from going dry quite so fast since people that MIGHT be "wasting" now might think twice if they paid a per gallon "fee"?? Seems like if they want to tax what you use they should have to buy the well from you first. And I wouldn't be asking my state rep to vote for that at all.



babsbag said:


> It is nice that you don't notice the pump dropping pressure if something else is on


There is the pressure tank, yes? I would think one would have to be using a LOT of water all at once to notice a pressure drop. 

Our pressure switch is 30-50 psi, you said you have a pressure switch as well. What does it do if the controller provides constant pressure? Wouldn't that mean the pump is running all the time any water is being used?

Yes, I am


----------



## babsbag

It does pretty much run all of the time. It is supposed to save money as the pump doesn't have the high draw on start up. It has a very small pressure tank, maybe 5 gallons. A few years back DH put a bigger tank on it so that it wouldn't run all of the time as it is right outside our bedroom window and annoying at night. Also if you are outside trying to enjoy a summer evening on the deck it was always running. So now it doesn't run as much and perhaps we defeated its purpose but we didn't see any change in our power bill when he made the switch so it is any ones guess. We tried to figure out how much it was costing to run by shutting off everything but the well but could never really get a good estimate.  

Since we have grid tied solar on a time of use meter I try to water everything between 9 PM and 10 AM so our water usage can be demanding at times and this summer while I pump was dying I was constantly fighting no water pressure, I think that the pump was having a hard time keeping up with the demand. It isn't on as much now and the pressure is good even during things like lawn watering.   The long term plan is putting in a 2000 gallon tank, fill it at night, and use it during the day instead of the well. 

As far as the well being metered by the state I would bet that most people on a well use less water than city folks as we know that it costs money and that water isn't an endless resource. I am much more conscious of it now than I was when I just sent money to the city.


----------



## Bruce

Seems to me unless you are using a LOT of water A LOT of the time, there is much more "high startup draw" with the system you have now. Kind of like our on-demand water heater. That thing has to light up every time the hot water is turned on for even half a minute. And of course it has to kick on the vent pipe blower each time as well. Likely the only time our well pump has to run much is when someone is taking a shower and the pressure in the tank drops to 30 PSI and triggers the pump. Otherwise when the tank is full, there can be plenty of small uses before the pump has to run again. 

That 2,000 gallon tank plan sounds good. I don't know what that would cost but was surprised to find out that the top surface area of a 1,000 gallon septic tank isn't much bigger than a sheet of plywood. I guess a 2K water tank won't be terribly big.

People on wells may or may not know how much they are using since there is no meter. But there is that constant reminder with the pump running. You hear that and the $$ come to mind


----------



## Baymule

Can you gutter the house/barn and funnel rain to a cistern? I know in Colorado, rain belongs to the state, which is just about the screwiest thing I ever heard of. Here we can capture all the rain we want.


----------



## Mini Horses

I don't believe there is much rain where she is.

Colorado & rain...I have always thought THAT was insane!!  Wonder how that could even have happened???   If that is theirs, then why wouldn't the wind be also??   If so, they why don't they pay for the damage from "THEIR" possessions upon others????  You can't say the wind & rain were "acts of God" and still own them.


----------



## Bruce

Water rights, the same way a lot of the water in northern CA is owned by "entities" in southern CA.


----------



## Latestarter

I believe recently CO changed their water rights laws to allow a person to collect water off their roof in a rain barrel for personal use. It is still illegal to in any way alter the slope, build structures, create holding tanks, on the land to prevent water run off as those "downstream" already have established their rights to ownership. When you live in a near desert, water is everything and very valuable. Farmers want more of it, home owners want more of it. Everyone wants more, but there only exists what exists. 

CA "owns" the CO river. Back when the rights were established, the river produced far more water than it does now. There was enough for Coloradans to have some and still provide what CA claimed as theirs downstream. Of course there are also a few other states along the way who want their share as well. It's a climate issue. Not as much snow to melt, not as much rain, not as much water to flow down to CA. As a result, CA is due more water annually than actually flows down stream. The result is a dry river bed where it enters the gulf of CA. It's sucked dry before any gets there. (I believe in recent years, legislation has required that "some" water be allowed to enter the gulf from the CO river. That being said, I believe the amount is barely a trickle  http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...elta-pulse-flow-morelos-dam-minute-319-water/) Required water release from lake Mead has been a contributing factor to the severe drop in water level behind the Hoover dam. CA (and others) need to get "their" water. 

If everyone was allowed to collect, save, store, stop, divert, retain, rain/water run off, the problem would be even worse. The aquifers would not be able to replenish, and of course the amount of water available to/owned by those downstream would be even less.   Hasn't stopped Californians from moving to Colorado... similar climate conditions and cheaper cost of living. "States Census Bureau estimates that the population of Colorado was _5,540,545_ on July 1, 2016, an increase of 10.17% since the 2010 United States Census."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado   I moved here to TX to get away from the crowds and costs of CO, the legal and political system becoming "Californiated", and because of the water issue. 

Of course right now it's pretty dry here and we could use some rain...


----------



## Baymule

At least in Texas you can dig a pond if you want to, gather rain water from the roof and trap water run off on your land.


----------



## Bruce

Same here. Though we don't tend to have the terrible droughts that CA and TX have seen. Maybe one bad year but recovery the next.


----------



## babsbag

I can trap all the rain water I want, no restrictions on that...yet. But I can't water my yard with grey water.   I say charge a modest fee and inspect a grey water system and let us use it for non food plants, makes too much sense. 

Water on our planet is a closed system; we can't make it or destroy it, we just pollute and use it in different ways. If CA didn't have the snow melt and watersheds to capture there would be no large scale agriculture but ultimately that water ends up back in the ground or in the atmosphere to be released and used again. Sometimes nature just gets stingy in letting it go. Also it takes a long time to fill the aquifers (usually) so ground water is disappearing but the water itself actually hasn't disappeared, it just went elsewhere "to live". 

On another note, I will taking two tests this Friday and having the inspector do a preliminary inspection. I still have some things to do, like pave the corral and build metal ramps but I am hoping she will let me slide on those two things for the rest of this year...2 months. And there is other stuff, I need labels approved, and printed, I need to buy bottles, I need to figure out how to culture 30 gallons of milk, need to decide how I want to package cheese without buying a vacuum sealer, and a bunch of other details. I am looking for liability insurance and not getting far on that front.  

I have a ton of stuff to do before Friday so wish me luck and I am on my way.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

G'luck!  Hope this all works out wonderfully!   You have jumped through enough hoops to last a lifetime!  Here's hoping you never have to jump again, lol!


----------



## Hens and Roos

Good Luck !!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I have confidence that you'll do well...and hope all the other things will flow smoothly for ya...I certainly agree with FEM.


----------



## Baymule

Do I hear the sound of dairy doors opening?


----------



## Latestarter

Congrats a little in advance. There's no turning back now and with the obstacles you've already overcome, I wouldn't bank on anything else being able to hold you back. Go get em'!


----------



## babsbag

Nothing like an impending inspection to make me clean up crap. One advantage (or disadvantage) of living in a summer dry area is that I (actually the DH more than me) can leave things outside waiting to get put away. Not really important things, just clutter...tie down straps, a tire (that he took off of the trailer when leveling it), a couple of heavy duty jacks, a winch and a come a-long or two or three, a couple of cans of paint, some plumbing parts for drains...just stuff. Most of it gets piled in front of the shed I put together for the dairy supplies and the shed is getting full. The project has made us move tools closer to the project and it is time to think about moving them back to the real storage shed. But first I need to clean that. This dairy has been pretty much all encompassing for about three years. I'm pretty done with this construction crap.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Good luck


----------



## babsbag

Mia is 2 weeks away from whelping and she is running a fever, has a slight discharge, and won't eat. Tomorrow we go see the vet and that will stress her to the max. She has never been in the car since I brought her home. The stress alone will probably make her abort


----------



## Latestarter

Hope it all works out OK... please let us know, as I'm sure you will...


----------



## Hens and Roos

too bad your vet can make a farm visit for her


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh nooooo...


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> But I can't water my yard with grey water.



So who would know?? If you have no bathroom plumbing connected to it, what could possibly be the harm in watering the yard?


----------



## babsbag

Mia miscarried all the pups... There were at least 5.  Trip to the vet for ultrasound and antibiotics even though her temp was low this morning. Vet said could be mechanical, genetic, or just nature, no way to really know. She doesn't suspect STD since Francis has been a sire before and he has not been used for breeding off of my farm. She said to breed her again and that that is the best thing to do for her health. Sad day.


----------



## Hens and Roos

so sorry


----------



## TAH

So sorry Babsbag!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Oh my....that is sad and disheartening to hear...
Sure am glad Mia is okay though.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

So sorry to hear that.    Hopefully it'll go well next time!


----------



## Latestarter

So sorry Babs. Hopefully the next time around will be successful.


----------



## Devonviolet

Oh Babs!  I'm so sorry to hear that!  How sad!

I'll be praying for Mia to heal and have a litter of beautiful, bouncing puppies, when the time is right for her.


----------



## Bruce




----------



## Goat Whisperer




----------



## Mike CHS

I was writing on a different page.  I'm sorry it turned out this way.


----------



## babsbag

Mia is a very sad girl tonight and it breaks my heart. She won't eat, won't guard, just lays around looking sad. She wants to nest which isn't good, I don't want her going under the shed or the hay storage area as she may not come out...ever. Poor baby. 

It's 9:30 and I just got done cleaning the milking parlor and the milk room, boy does it look sparkly clean. I hate the floor, and will be redoing at least the one in the parlor this winter. I might redo both of them, we'll see how I feel about pulling out the sink. Any floor that has to be cleaned with a scrub brush on my hands and knees like Cinderella has to go...too old for that stuff. 

I still have a few things to do in the morning. The inspector won't be here until noon so first thing I have to do is milk and tells the girls not to get the place dirty. Then I have to set up some stuff for the two exams, and I am not really ready for those but oh well. I don't remember minutiae as well as I used to and this is really what this is all about. For example, they ask "why can the manhole cover on the bulk tanker truck be opened for sampling without any protection or cover? "  And instead of giving you a logical reason as to why they basically say "because the code says that you can".   So don't give me a reason, just do it because I said so, my brain doesn't function that way.  But tomorrow it will be over one way or another. I am really a lot more interested in hearing what she wants me to do for certification than I am in taking these tests. 

Wish me luck.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Definitely wish you loads of luck!

Poor Mia..hope she comes out of her funk...


----------



## CntryBoy777

Good Luck!!....
Hope Mia gets back to herself in a couple of days, too...


----------



## Bruce

Mia will be OK, her hormones didn't get shed when the miscarriage happened. 

You could do what some people do with a broody hen, get her some newborns to raise!


I hear you on the "because the rules say so" thing. If there is a "rule" there should be a REASON for the rule. And if there is no logic behind the rule that can be understood, there shouldn't be such a rule.

Good luck, keep calm, do well.


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## babsbag

Yes, good news on the dairy front. I am exhausted. I took the exam for the pasteurizer and passed, the other exam we decided to wait on; it was almost 4:00 when she got done with the inspection. I am not certified yet and I didn't expect to be but I do have a list that isn't all the bad, most of it I expected. I am going to cram like crazy and try to be done by Nov. Some of it will be very easy, but the skirting on the trailers is going to be a real pain. She is letting me wait on the concrete for the holding corral until March and she is letting me use my wooden ramps, that saved me a bunch of money. All in all it was a good day, no complaints at all.

Mia is ok physically but very depressed, won't eat and keeps sniffing where her puppies were. She had them is various places in the barn, no nest. I sure hope she comes around soon. None of the dogs seem that interested in this food, Pedigree, and I have fed it many times. But they all look at it and then at me and then they begrudgingly eat it. Makes me wonder, I had just opened this bag and fed it in the morning and then Mia miscarried that night. Can't help but wonder.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Glad to hear the good news for your dairy and that the list from the inspector isn't to bad!

Hope Mia starts feeling mentally better-poor girl 

That does make you wonder about the food-any chance your vet could help you test it given that none really want to eat it....

Can you get another bag(maybe from a different store) and see if they eat that better?


----------



## CntryBoy777

I'm sure glad the inspector worked with ya on things and the past history didn't play a role as ya were afraid that it would. I knew ya would pass the test and that memory wasn't on the fritz with ya.
Having been in warehousing, there are many things that could have taken place with the storage of the dog food that could have tainted it, so since the dogs react to it seems to tell me that something is amiss with it. I'd just chunk it and go back to what was before....I hate the waste, but I always listen to my animals....ya could always donate it to a shelter or rescue....but, personally I'd just get rid of it cause I wouldn't want to give anything bad to other animals either. It will take her a few dags I'm sure to get over the trauma, but nature will carry her thru it all.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Glad the dairy news is positive!  YaY!

The dog food news....not so much.  I use a website to check out dog foods.  It's:  www.dogfoodadvisor.com

I like to go through and look at what it says about certain dog foods.

Hope her spirits perk up soon!


----------



## Bruce

Glad your test and inspection went well.

Regarding the food, who knows? We had 3 cats happily eating Fussie Cat canned foods, lots of flavors so they didn't get the same thing every day. Then all at once they stopped eating it. Same as your dogs, look at the food, look at you and say "You expect me to eat that?". These cans had various "use by" dates, months apart so it wasn't a single bad run. They are now eating the MUCH cheaper TSC 4Health canned and not complaining.

 for Mia!


----------



## Devonviolet

I'm so glad your eval went well so far, and am praying for you.  I'm sure you will do fine.  I think changing the flooring, for cleaning, is a great idea.  I stopped washing floors on my hands and knees about 35 yeas ago.  Waking up in the middle of the night in pain, just didn't cut it!

Again, so sorry for sweet Mia.    She sure,is taking the loss hard!   As other have said, once her hormones level out, I'm sure she will bounce back.  In the mean time, she needs lots of love and attention, which I'm sure you are giving her!


----------



## goatgurl

congratulations on passing the first test, yea for you!!  also glad the information you did from the inspection so you will be able to tweek things to make it all perfect for the inspector.  now study like crazy for test #2 and soon you'll be a full fledged dairy owner/operator.  you're getting there one step at a time.  what is that old saying, slow and steady wins the race.  just keep on keepin' on and you'll get there.
  other good news is that your buck is out of his cast and doing well, whoo hooo!!!  we'll expect baby pictures next spring so you can show off his prodigy.
   I'm so sorry about mia and the loss of her pups.  poor baby girl, I hope she can overcome her grief soon.  and babs I would look closely at the dog food.  I have read some pretty bad things about pedigree over the years.  hugs for you both and an extra ear scratch for mia.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm guessing that this inspector might be learning along with you.  At least she doesn't seem so impossible any longer.


----------



## dejavoodoo114

babsbag said:


> I sold 4 goats today and bought two... the money didn't even make it to the house...in one hand and out the other.


So, where were the pics of the new goats? What were they? This is a problem I often have. Sell goats, immediately turn around and buy more!!



babsbag said:


> The wonderful state of CA keeps threatening to put meters on our wells and charge us to use the water that we paid to access. I would like to know if they intend to maintain said well going forward...of course not. So not only would a person have to pay to dig the well, they pay power to get the water out of the well, the pay to maintain the well, and they would pay a monthly fee to the State. Hoping that it doesn't happen in my lifetime.






babsbag said:


> She said to breed her again and that that is the best thing to do for her health.


I am very sorry that happened to her. What was the reason they gave that rebreeding her was best for her health? Keep in mind, I know a lot about livestock and little about dogs/cats... 



babsbag said:


> Yes, good news on the dairy front. I am exhausted. I took the exam for the pasteurizer and passed, the other exam we decided to wait on


So glad things are coming together! I am assuming you have to pass both tests and the inspection to be able to open officially? If they are waiting until March for you to pave the coral, will that delay your opening?

The last time I was kneeling down to wash a floor was in the Corps. After my injuries that became impossible. Sometimes I wish I still could, doing some things from a standing position is harder than being able to crouch down! I am working hard to try and make everything as easy for me to manage on my own as possible. My kids wont be around forever...


----------



## OneFineAcre

Sorry about Mia

Congrats on the inspection


----------



## Bruce

dejavoodoo114 said:


> Sometimes I wish I still could, doing some things from a standing position is harder than being able to crouch down!


You are just getting old early  A quantity of us older people don't find it so easy to get down anymore and harder to get back up without something to grab onto.


----------



## babsbag

dejavoodoo114 said:


> I am very sorry that happened to her. What was the reason they gave that rebreeding her was best for her health?



The chance of Pyometra increases in dogs when the lining of the uterus thickens which each heat they have if they remain un-bred. So breeding will help prevent pyometra and other than that she didn't really say.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

I'm so sorry about Mia's puppies!  

Congratulations on being close to certified with your dairy! Glad Jumanji is okay, and that things turned out well for the doe that had the abcess!


----------



## babsbag

Ever since my does have had access to our new land I have seen more jawline abscesses. I don't know if there is a weed down there that they are eating that is causing the issue or what. And while I buy hay from the same place all of the time his supplier changes so maybe it is the hay. I have another doe with an abscess, her second, right on her lower jaw, near the jaw hinge.  I am sure that it is a sticker or a salivary gland, it has been there for a few months and not growing.  I'm not even bothering to test at this point.  

The one that Taffy had is back in almost the same place; most likely I didn't get it all cleaned out. The vet will be out next week to test the entire herd for TB and Brucellosis (anyone want to come and help?) and I will ask her to look at it and lance if needed.


----------



## Baymule

I am so sorry for Mia and her puppies. Poor girl. Is she still moping for her puppies or has she started to return back to her old self? Give her a big hug and tell her that Auntie Baymule loves her.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Sorry about your girl and her loss! 

About the dog food, if you have fed it before and now they wont eat it, most likely just an ingredient change. (Food and nutrition gets me excited and I started with cat food... so sorry I can get a bit wordy....) AAFCO has a label that states if a food recipe has been *tested* to be nutritionally complete for all/(or whatever) life stages in an actual trial. (The studies are actually not big or long enough... but that is another discussion for another day.... )The "tested" label means they cannot change the recipe and still be in compliance. The ingredients will stay the same.

The other AAFCO label says *formulated to meet nutritional standards. *This means they submit a recipe that on paper has a good nutritional balance, but may have an "or"... like 'soybean oil or corn oil'... or whatever. That means they can change the actual ingredients as long as the nutrition numbers still meet the criteria. If they get one oil (or other ingredient) for cheaper, they will actually change what is in the food, but it still meets the label requirement. Some animals will have issues or balk at the "new" food, that is out of the same bag and owners are generally none the wiser...

A good food at a moderate price is Purina one, but not even all of those varieties are tested foods. (Even the Purina Dog Chow has decreased in quality in my opinion, in the last few years so I no longer recommend it as a cheaper alternative)....Purina actually designed and started the food testing back in the day and they were the leaders for years.... Money ruins everything I am afraid.


----------



## babsbag

Mia is doing better, she is eating again which is nice to see but she isn't playing and she isn't guarding. She still sleeps way too much and she doesn't want the the other dogs around her and they all take her seriously. I hope that all changes soon.

I think the next bag of food will not be Pedigree even though I had been feeding it for months. The bag before this was Diamond High Energy as my feed store had it on sale, the dogs seem to like it but they don't really need a high energy feed.  My house dogs eat Nature's Domain from Costco but I don't like going to Costco so I would have to really stock up on feed if I put the LGDs on it or I would be there every week. Part of finding a good feed is the ease of buying it too, I really hate shopping and will go to TSC over Walmart any day of the week.  I will have to look for AAFCO lable, good to know. My cats get super duper expensive food as I have one that needs very high protein feed so they all get it. It is the most expensive food I have ever fed an animal, but the cats do look good.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I used to buy a feed from TSC that I was pretty happy with.  It was 4Health....kinda pricey but my dogs did well on it.  I am using another feed now from the other feed store I go to because I despise our TSC...ugh.  ( I know there are better TSC's out there - ours has been cursed with bad management) That feed is called Pro Pac Mini Chunks....both get really good ratings and reviews.  I like them both. I get a little better deal on the Pro-pac at my new feed store than the 4-Health from Tractor Supply.   Not sure what's available in your area, but sure hoping you find something that works for you - and them!


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

dejavoodoo114 said:


> So, where were the pics of the new goats? What were they? This is a problem I often have. Sell goats, immediately turn around and buy more!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am very sorry that happened to her. What was the reason they gave that rebreeding her was best for her health? Keep in mind, I know a lot about livestock and little about dogs/cats...
> 
> 
> So glad things are coming together! I am assuming you have to pass both tests and the inspection to be able to open officially? If they are waiting until March for you to pave the coral, will that delay your opening?
> 
> The last time I was kneeling down to wash a floor was in the Corps. After my injuries that became impossible. Sometimes I wish I still could, doing some things from a standing position is harder than being able to crouch down! I am working hard to try and make everything as easy for me to manage on my own as possible. My kids wont be around forever...


When we decided 2 years ago to check out of the city to raise goats we were living in Long Beach, CA.  We looked at setting up with goats in California.  I'm actually a 4th generation Californian.  The cost to license and water in California were just too much.  My husband was born up here so we looked this way instead.  We only have to water at the very peek of the summer. Our well needs to be re-dug but as it is on the deed as being here no permit is required.  It won't produce a lot but it will be enough to water the yard and garden.


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## Bruce

I grew up in Downey. Moved away from the overpopulation in '79. Way worse now. You are in a better place @Jeanne Sheridan


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## Jeanne Sheridan

Bruce said:


> I grew up in Downey. Moved away from the overpopulation in '79. Way worse now. You are in a better place @Jeanne Sheridan


I grew up all over the west but moved back to California with a job right out of college.  We are loving it up here.  Is you picture on BYH of two alpacas and is so are they yours?


----------



## Latestarter

Hey Babs... Hope Mia is continuing to recover. I'm sure you and the other LGDs will be really happy to have the original Mia back again. I don't watch or read the news and just picked up on the wildfires out there in norcal. Is there a serial arsonist running around or something? Seems like they all came at the same time out of the blue. Anyway, the point is, I hope you're not being affected by them.


----------



## Bruce

Jeanne Sheridan said:


> I grew up all over the west but moved back to California with a job right out of college.  We are loving it up here.  Is you picture on BYH of two alpacas and is so are they yours?


And I moved AWAY as soon as I got out of college. OK, not RIGHT away, it was 2 months later 

Yes those are my boys. Teddy on the left and Laddie. 6-7ish year old geldings. They were given to us a year ago by people who lived farther down the road. People I wouldn't know from Adam which is why I thought they were looking for directions when they stopped as I got my mail one Sept day. They planned to (and did) move to FL this past spring and were divesting of their animals (chickens, 7 alpacas, 3 goats). They had already given away the 5 white female alpacas but those people didn't want the boys and the owners figured we had plenty of room so we might want them.


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## ragdollcatlady

While not AAFCO tested.... my number one favorite food is Solid Gold. I cost a few gold pennies to buy it, but my ragdolls have done well on it for 20 years so I highly recommend it. Halo, my original rag, was allergic or sensitive to chicken (did a small food trial to figure it out) and I have found some of her kittens seemed to share the sensitivity, but they have all handled the original formula from Solid Gold just fine. Rinky Dink, our little chow/pom (RIP) was plagued with hotspots and alfalfa allergies that caused his skin to break out. Thankfully he was tiny so he stayed on Solid Gold to with great results too. 

While also not AAFCO tested, the food we sell at my work, science diet is a really good food too. Being into nutrition, when I see a pet with a phenomenal coat, all shiny and plush, I always compliment and ask what they are feeding. It used to be that the animals that were in the best shape were actually the ones fed very small amounts the owners fat from the steak or whatever in addition to a decent dog food, but it turns out that every one, and I mean every one, of the animals I have asked about has been on the science diet food. 

XDH used to get irritated that my rags couldn't eat cheap food, but diarrhea wasn't worth the cost savings... besides, with diarrhea you go through more litter so you spend the same in the end. But he had a dog, Charlie, that would get gross skin and had issues. He always fed whatever was cheap and on sale. I made a deal with him. Feed 2 bags (about 2 months worth) of a better food, not super expensive, just better, Purina One is the brand I chose, and if there was no improvement, I would leave the nutrition conversations about his dog food alone. If there was an improvement, he could of course still fee the cheap stuff if he wanted, but he had to leave me alone about what I fed my cats... He was better before the first bag was gone. Brighter, perky, spring in his step like a much younger version of himself. Fur came in nice and soft....


----------



## babsbag

My cats eat Nature's Variety Ultimate Protein. I had a cat with horrible diarrhea, he often only made it close to the box. He is also  my kitty that had feline distemper as a kitten so he walks with a swagger and can't run. I was seriously thinking that I was going to have to put him down as his toilet habits were out of control. We ran some blood tests and tried Vit B injections and nothing helped. I tried grain free food, nada. Tried this cat food and within a few days no more diarrhea. The cats all look amazing. 

@Latestarter  Mia is getting back to herself as far as guarding but she doesn't want the other dogs in her space, or the goats. She likes to hang out under the feeder when she is off duty and yesterday I tipped the feeder over on its side to clean it out and goats were walking where she normally sleeps and I thought she was going to take its head off. Hormones I guess....hope they straighten out soon. Francis even gets growled at and he backs away, he never does that so I guess her growl is real. 

The fires are devastating. I will say that we are used to them but those ones in Nape and Sonoma are really wrecking havoc; complete city subdivisions have been destroyed. The winds were really bad last weekend...good day for a fire.    It is very possible that they were started by arson as it seems that the fires that start on very hot windy days are arson, they just wait until conditions are prime to do their nasty deed. A couple of them may have been started by a downed power line, there were 75MPH winds that night. Time will tell what started them but knowing the how won't undo the damage. I think that this is one of the fastest moving fires in a highly populated area that I can remember, usually infrastructure like roads and lawn help with the effort...not this time.  Very sad; I think 17 people have died too. The fact that they started at night made it all more difficult.


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

babsbag said:


> My cats eat Nature's Variety Ultimate Protein. I had a cat with horrible diarrhea, he often only made it close to the box. He is also  my kitty that had feline distemper as a kitten so he walks with a swagger and can't run. I was seriously thinking that I was going to have to put him down as his toilet habits were out of control. We ran some blood tests and tried Vit B injections and nothing helped. I tried grain free food, nada. Tried this cat food and within a few days no more diarrhea. The cats all look amazing.
> 
> @Latestarter  Mia is getting back to herself as far as guarding but she doesn't want the other dogs in her space, or the goats. She likes to hang out under the feeder when she is off duty and yesterday I tipped the feeder over on its side to clean it out and goats were walking where she normally sleeps and I thought she was going to take its head off. Hormones I guess....hope they straighten out soon. Francis even gets growled at and he backs away, he never does that so I guess her growl is real.
> 
> The fires are devastating. I will say that we are used to them but those ones in Nape and Sonoma are really wrecking havoc; complete city subdivisions have been destroyed. The winds were really bad last weekend...good day for a fire.    It is very possible that they were started by arson as it seems that the fires that start on very hot windy days are arson, they just wait until conditions are prime to do their nasty deed. A couple of them may have been started by a downed power line, there were 75MPH winds that night. Time will tell what started them but knowing the how won't undo the damage. I think that this is one of the fastest moving fires in a highly populated area that I can remember, usually infrastructure like roads and lawn help with the effort...not this time.  Very sad; I think 17 people have died too. The fact that they started at night made it all more difficult.


My sister-in-law lives a block off the town square in Sonoma and it's been bad enough that the have their critical papers and family photos loaded in their car.


----------



## dejavoodoo114

@babsbag, I hope you guys are not in danger of the current crop of fires.


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## Bruce

Yeah sounds just awful out in No Ca! @babsbag is OK, no fires out in the Redding area.

Oh Geez, I just found this:
http://www.fire.ca.gov/general/firemaps

There is a fire not 10 miles east of where my Dad lives in Fullerton!


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## BlessedWithGoats

@Bruce hoping he is okay!


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## Bruce

It would only be an issue of smoke. The fire is up in the hills, actually not all that far from Disneyland. But a huge amount of So. Cal is asphalt, not much to burn. But those hills, dry brush is about all you ever see unless it had burned recently, then you see black hills. Not a pretty place to me. Not fond of real dry, not fond of asphalt jungles.


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## babsbag

My DH used to be a wild land fire fighter and he spent many an Oct. - Nov. in So. Cal fighting fires. When it burns and those Santa Ana winds kick up there is no stopping it. Ugly all the way around. 

OK, all you geniuses, I need help.  This may not be logical but it is what it is. I have 3 automatic water troughs for my goats (and two for my chickens, but don't tell) that need to be protected by an anti-siphon or back flow preventer. All of them attach to one hose bib. Now in order for this to ever cause a health issue it would have to back flow through the floats (how would it ever do that, the float shuts off the inflow hole when it gets to full), run up hill about 150' (probably 40' in elevation), get through the check valve on my well, and run back down to the dairy. That being said, any ideas?
 These are the troughs I use.






I was going to use this...http://www.homedepot.com/p/Orbit-Hose-Bib-Anti-Siphon-Valve-67750/203720437

But I was told it would not work with a float downstream from it.   Can anyone explain that to me?


----------



## babsbag

@Jeanne Sheridan Hoping that your family in Sonoma is safe. Such a beautiful area to have destroyed by fire. My DH used to work in Saint Helena, Napa, Santa Rosa...all of that area. We lived in Fairfield at that time.  

@dejavoodoo114  all is good here. The big fires in the wine country are about 3 hours away and way over a bunch of mountains. We get the smoke though. 

I spent the afternoon tattooing 14 goats by myself...fun and green. NOT FUN. If tomorrow the ladies won't come in to be milked it will be because of the torture I put them through today.  Saturday they are getting TB and Brucellosis testing and they needed tattooed. Still have 10 more to do that aren't in the milk lineup but will need help for them but I  need to do them tomorrow. I didn't do my herd tattoo, just the one for the left ear. That was enough.


----------



## Jeanne Sheridan

Bruce said:


> It would only be an issue of smoke. The fire is up in the hills, actually not all that far from Disneyland. But a huge amount of So. Cal is asphalt, not much to burn. But those hills, dry brush is about all you ever see unless it had burned recently, then you see black hills. Not a pretty place to me. Not fond of real dry, not fond of asphalt jungles.


So Cal also has a lot of old shake shingle roofs. If the wind come in the wrong direction they could lose whole neighborhoods like No Cal did.  
My sister-in-law in Sonoma, a block from the town center, has been under advisory evacuation for a few days now.  They left for a time yesterday but decided to go back in part to give friends who are under mandatory evacuation a place to stay.  I talked with her with her Thursday evening and she's worried but feeling better because all three of their daughters with the grand kids have gotten out of the fire and smoke area.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> But I was told it would not work with a float downstream from it.  Can anyone explain that to me?


What I found:
"_The downstream valve creates “back pressure” on the anti-siphon valve which causes the vent in it to jam in the closed position._"

"_*Pressure Vacuum Breaker.* A pressure vacuum breaker (PVB) is similar to an atmospheric vacuum breaker except that you only need to install one of them and it is installed on the mainline leading to the control valves. Like the AVB it must also be installed above ground and it must be 6 inches (150mm) higher than the highest sprinkler head or drip emitter controlled by any of the valves._"

https://www.irrigationtutorials.com/irrigation-backflow-preventers/

When half the house was rebuilt, the plumbers put one of these through the newly poured north foundation wall:
https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Siphon-Frost-Proof-Wall-Hydrant-inch/dp/B00002NCOC






If it is only a vacuum breaker, it won't be doing anything useful for backflow prevention since there is a Y valve connected to it and on one of the hoses connected to that there is a 4 way valve connected to 2 auto waterers (alpacas and chickens) and a hose with a spray faucet.

But, assuming it is not a vacuum breaker and is doing what it is supposed to do, the thing only costs $17 on Amazon. I bet the plumbers charged me twice if not 3 times that because that is what they do. One would ASSUME they make something similar in a "not frost proof" version for those that don't live in freezing areas.


----------



## babsbag

I will look at those, we have one on our house. Now I understand why that other device won't work... because of the constant pressure. 

You sound like me and the Ys connected to other Ys; I make great use of every outside faucet I have. It does freeze here, I have the broken PVC pipes to prove it. It usually does that to me at least once a year...we get frost almost daily in the winter unless it is raining but the hard freezes happen too.


----------



## Mike CHS

Fires in hill country is always scary especially when you throw these kind of winds into the mix.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> You sound like me and the Ys connected to other Ys; I make great use of every outside faucet I have.


Yep. And since I'm not irrigating anything, there isn't a problem with volume with all those connections. The most water I would use at any point in time would be if I am washing the car. I think I did that once ... last year.

But come freezing weather, the Ys come off and the faucet goes unused. Frost free just means the valve seat is way inside the crawlspace (where the hot air furnace and ductwork live) so no water freezes in the spigot. No using it when the air temp is too low, it isn't like the "drain back" freeze proof ones people use in places like their barns. 

Those fires in CA aren't even CLOSE to contained. Many 10s of thousands of acres. Really scary.


----------



## Simpleterrier

I would use one of these. This is what I have to use to keep boiler water from going back into the house side. On hot water heat jobs. Any water that tries to go backwards will get kicked out


----------



## babsbag

I looked at something similar by Watts but it has to be installed horizontally and I was  hoping to find a vertical option to go in the PVC line I have right below the faucet. All my horizontal lines are underground.


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## Latestarter

Buy a 90 degree elbow, and add a horizontal piece of pipe with the back flow preventer right behind the faucet. Or if that won't work, you could build a "loop" in the pipe below where the faucet is to give you a horizontal area to install it... Hope you get it figured out... If there's a plumbing supply house anywhere nearby, you could ask them for suggestions as well.


----------



## babsbag

I thought about adding the horizontal piece which I could do easy enough. My hesitation is that the vertical PVC pipe is encased in a 3" piece of drain pipe with pea gravel as insulation. It is a perfect way to keep the pipe from freezing and protect if from sunlight too. In the winter I just put an insulated cover over the faucet and we are good to go. I would have to redesign all of that...not on my to do list if I don't have to.


----------



## babsbag

Jumanji bred his first doe today.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## dejavoodoo114

babsbag said:


> Jumanji bred his first doe today.


So Exciting!! 
Now to wait for what his kids look like after all this heart/headache!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Go Jumanji Go!!


----------



## Devonviolet

That's awesome about Jumanji!!!  Can't wait to see his kids!!! 

My sister lives in the Bay Area, so I spoke with her yesterday, to see how she is faring.  No fire near them, but she is in the red zone, for smoke pollution. 

Thinking about her got me thinking about you, living near Redding.  How are you doing?  If nothing else, you must be getting a lot of smoke!


----------



## CntryBoy777

Great News!!....


----------



## babsbag

We have had so much wind here that the smoke is going elsewhere; we had one day when it was bad. Now if we were in Fairfield still it might be different.


----------



## Devonviolet

Good!  I'm glad y'all aren't being affected by it.  My heart really goes out to the thousands whose homes have been destroyed.


----------



## Mike CHS

I don't know if it's just being covered more or not but I cannot remember this much property loss and loss of life like this before.


----------



## babsbag

The loss of life is one of the highest I can remember. As far as the number of homes I'm not sure but when it comes to the value of those homes they are among some of the elite in the State. Number of acres, again I'm not sure as we have had some HUGE wild land fires in CA but this is burning in a pretty populated area which makes in unique.  Charles Schulz (Peanuts) lost his (his widow) home and all that memorabilia.

ETA: death toll is at 31 but 400 people still missing. I just can't wrap my head around that number.


----------



## CntryBoy777

It is truly a terrible situation out that way...sure hope the conditions will change soon and allow the fire fighters a chance to get it contained.


----------



## Bruce

Mike CHS said:


> I don't know if it's just being covered more or not but I cannot remember this much property loss and loss of life like this before.


I think it is being covered more because there are so many fires at the same time and they cover a huge area, they just keep popping up.


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> I think it is being covered more because there are so many fires at the same time and they cover a huge area, they just keep popping up.



And because it is in such a well known "touristy" area. If it were burning in my backyard I doubt it would get the same coverage.


----------



## babsbag

Jumanji 5 and counting.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Awesome!  Hopefully he's making up for all that stress he caused you!


----------



## dejavoodoo114

frustratedearthmother said:


> Awesome!  Hopefully he's making up for all that stress he caused you!


And the money he cost you!


----------



## Devonviolet

_Fantastic_!  Way to go Jumanji!!!


----------



## Bruce

Yep he better father some amazing goats for sale and milk so you can recover those costs!


----------



## babsbag

I only let him out for controlled visits, no running or chasing so he is learning to be a gentleman with the ladies. He walks among them sniffing and blubbering until he finds the right one (the one he has been smelling from his pen). It is cute. There are a few does that are really big; I might let my old boy have his way with them again this year, I worry a little bit about that rear leg and Jumanji trying to reach them. We'll see, but so far I am happy with his courting skills.


----------



## babsbag

Brucellosis and TB testing is done. No TB, the tests were read this morning. Brucellosis is at the lab so it will be a few days but I highly doubt that there will be a problem. What a chore this was and so very happy it is over.


----------



## Bruce

I suspect you would know by now if you had a herd with Brucellosis so no worries . One step closer!


----------



## babsbag

Brucellosis is all negative, not that I was worried but I can say that it is done. 

Now I am designing labels for cheese and milk and they have to be approved before I can use them. Also I still have to take the other test and get the lab approved.  That in addition to a mile long list still to do. Nov 3 is the next big date.


----------



## babsbag

Brucellosis is all negative, not that I was worried but I can say that it is done. 

Now I am designing labels for cheese and milk and they have to be approved before I can use them. Also I still have to take the other test and get the lab approved.  That in addition to a mile long list still to do. Nov 3 is the next big date.


----------



## Bruce

Cool, you can sit and do nothing for 2 weeks!


----------



## babsbag

HA HA HA. "Do Nothing" is not in my vocabulary. Yesterday I trenched  (with my tractor) about 100' for a drain line and water line and installed the pipe, I will connect it all one day soon.  Tomorrow I will dig a big hole and install a back flow preventer and a shut off valve for the water to the coop and the barn. Somehow a shut off got missed and it has always bugged me so time to remedy that. The ground is going to be HARD but I want a hole big enough to put a Christy box in so I have my work cut out for me.  I also have to go buy the parts for this project which always takes more time than I like to spend.  I have about 10 things left on the list and 10 days to get them done...I better get busy. 

On the goat front...I am having a horrible time catching these ladies in heat. I have 13 bred out of 39, so a third of the herd. Good golly, this is taking forever.


----------



## Southern by choice

When did you give your multi min last?


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## dejavoodoo114

So true! This is why I have stuck with only one breed. That left my only concern being to figure out When they were bred and to ensure they actually were bred! Now I use a marking harness to figure out the when and blood tests to confirm that it took. So much easier! If you have an easy to control buck you could always walk him through your doe herd every day and see who is interested/interesting...

@babsbag , is Nov 4th your test date or another inspection? I really wish I had your energy to get things done!


----------



## babsbag

I have been walking Jumanji with the herd everyday and he is certainly interested, the does not so much. I had a mini yesterday screaming her head off, figured she was in heat, took her to the buck and she was terrified so I took her out, We will see what today brings. 

I had two bucklings with the herd until the 2nd week or so of Sept.  Now I am wondering... I saw my mini buckling breed a mini doe and that is when I decided they needed to be separated but it has me thinking about getting out the lute for the few that I really would like a Jumanji kid from. 

I have been working on buck pens in between dairy stuff. Nov 3 I have another inspection and I take the written and practical test for State license for weigher/sampler. They will also inspect my lab setup and if that is ok I need to schedule the lab person to come out and watch me run a test on the milk. My list is almost done. 

I have been working on the milk jug label. I am considering a back one too, more expense, more work, but I would like to put a "blurb" about the dairy on it...maybe. I don't have to do nutrition facts as I am exempt due to business size, which is good as I can't say how much fat is in my milk. So everything I need legally can fit on the front. I need to add a batch number too. What is the vote...do I add a back label?


----------



## ragdollcatlady

I say yes on the back label. The more personal you make it the better. I think most folks wanting to buy goats milk will likely be interested in that kind of info.


----------



## babsbag

ragdollcatlady said:


> I say yes on the back label. The more personal you make it the better. I think most folks wanting to buy goats milk will likely be interested in that kind of info.



Yeah, I was afraid of that.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> So everything I need legally can fit on the front. I need to add a batch number too. What is the vote...do I add a back label?


I agree with @ragdollcatlady. Nice to have info about the operation and it IS advertizing. The people I got the pork belly from have a really good website
http://farmerbrown.eatfromfarms.com/
And on it someone who cares that their food comes from sustainably raised animals can get that info. Plus learn about the family that runs it. "Personal" and "local" can make something more desireable. If you do look at their site, "The Boston Post Dairy" is the source of some products. I don't think it says on the site but that is the farm run by Annette Brown's family. She used to make cheese with them before the Brown operation needed her full time, now her sisters have to make it without her . Of course I knew nothing about this until the Browns showed up at the Farmer's Market this year and I started talking with them every Saturday.  

You could certainly put some general FAQ type things about goat milk on the back. And while you can't list the actual fat content of THAT bottle of milk, you could put a range either for your actual does if known, or the general range for the breeds you are milking. Plus you could list other products Jumping the Moon sells.


----------



## CntryBoy777

....or just a statement of other products listed on website. So glad things are chugging right along for ya, with just a little bit more to go.....


----------



## dejavoodoo114

I also agree with @ragdollcatlady and @Bruce you definitely want to have a back label with a blurb about your farm. Talking about your small local dairy that took X years to build because you love goats... Something that will allow people to feel like they are apart of your little farm just by buying your milk. I like the idea about a goat FAQ and "Visit our website for more information". This will also likely increase the sales of your kids and other products.


----------



## babsbag

You guys really want to make my life harder don't you? But then I asked and I think I knew the answer already. Eventually I will have my labels applied when I buy the bottles but for now it is on me. I need to make one for the cheese containers too but I can't get near as much information on those. They will labels on the lids.  

This is the flyer I ended up making when I did Love your Pet" day at TSC. I can use some of the information from that. I can't put a lot on the label, they aren't that big...


----------



## Baymule

I like the information on the left side better than the picture of the does getting milked and the info on them. A baby goat pic wins!


----------



## CntryBoy777

I agree with Bay and it lists available products also produced. The kids are very much eye appealling.


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## Latestarter

Gotta concur with what everyone else has said. Baby goats sells better than a bunch of does on a milking stanchion.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> But then I asked and I think I knew the answer already.


Hey Babs, you KNOW that around here if you are picky about the answer, don't ask the question 

I think this is spot on:


dejavoodoo114 said:


> Something that will allow people to feel like they are a part of your little farm just by buying your milk.


When people are paying a premium price, they want to feel a connection to the business. Knowing you are doing a bang up job keeping your animals in good shape and happy takes some sting out of the higher price. I'm picking up 15 pounds of ground beef and 3 kinds of cheese from Farmer Brown at the market tomorrow  (called my order in to Annette this afternoon). Can I buy ground beef cheaper? Yes but it isn't 100% pastured, isn't as good tasting, the animals don't live as good a life and they don't live it 20 miles from my house. I can't comment on the families that are raising those animals but I will assume they are equally nice people as the Browns


----------



## babsbag

Baby goats always win but I certainly got their attention with the pink milk stands.   I don't think I will put pictures on the back label but I will take some of the info from the flyer and incorporate it somehow. I don't have much room and I will take some of the info from the front and put it on the back so the front isn't so crowed. There are rules governing what goes where to a certain degree.


----------



## babsbag

I let Jumanji in the doe pen tonight to service an Alpine doe that has been pining away all day at the buck pen fence line. It didn't happen, but in the 15 seconds it took me to lock the gate he bred a LM doe that had already been bred today by a LM buck.  I am just going to let it go...I need these girls bred.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm late to the bottle label discussion and I'm not sure what the difference in cost would be but you could always have gift cards printed and hang them on the neck of the milk containers.

Something like you see on wine bottles with info.


----------



## babsbag

Tomorrow is the day...I get to take another test. And I get to see if I have everything on the list done. I has been a crazy day, trying to beat the rain. 

You know that goats melt in the rain so I needed to do something to cover the area that they wait in for milking. Our rains are starting tomorrow and it looks pretty wet for the next week. I bought this cover a few months ago and thought that it was going to be "easy" to put up. HA HA. I should have known better. So we ran out of time this last weekend to get it done, my fault for grossly underestimating the scope of the project. I was seriously considering not milking anymore this year...goats hate rain. 

But DH went off to work on Tuesday and I decided that I could do this on my own. What a project it turned out to be. It is 20 x 24 and much taller than I had imagined. I need to put an end panel on it as our winds will blow rain right through there. I looked at buying the end panels but they are $$$. And this is only temporary (I hope).  2 days later and here it is. I also need to do a better job of anchoring it. Right now it is tied to some t-posts but I know that DH can do it better when he gets home this weekend. 






I am about ready to throw Jumanji in with the does and let him have his way with them. I still have 20 does to breed and I just can't catch them in heat. Saturday I will pull my LM buckling out of the pen he shares with my mini Alpine buckling and put all the mini does in with the buck. I did sell one mini Alpine buck a few days ago so that is good.  I would put a couple of does in with my older bucks and just not care who gets bred to who but I don't want to start a war between the boys.  I just need them bred. I did not want to wait this long to have milk again.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Holy Cow - awesome that you put that up all by yourself.  Amazing what a determined woman can accomplish!  I think it looks great!

Good luck getting all those does bred.


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## Hens and Roos

very cool that you could get it put up by yourself!!


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## Bruce

REALLY tall! Looks to be 7'+ where the roof starts. Do you build the roof first then put the legs in? I can't imagine most people would have a ladder tall enough to do it the other way around. Definitely a 2 man (or one woman!) job.


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## CntryBoy777

The things we do for our animals....and go thru....looks superb, just hope they enjoy it....and Jumanji gets the job done for ya....


----------



## Mike CHS

You probably posted but I don't recall what is left to do before you can get licensed.  Is that to-do list getting any shorter?


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## babsbag

@Mike CHS  The to-do list should be to-done, we will see what the inspector says. I do have to get the lab approved by a technician from the State and my labels approved and maybe printed, we will see how my printer does on them. I am so close it is really frightening, not sure what the next step is.

@Bruce  the directions say build the roof then lift one side and put legs under it. Well a few problems, one...it was only me and it is heavy, and two I was building around a holding pen with a ramp in it. So I put up the legs on one side, put in one rafter, and then put in the legs on the other side and then the center. I have a 16'  orchard ladder and yes, I used it, I got very creative on ways to hold the rafters and getting them in the connectors, and said a lot of prayers.  You see the orange strap? It was tied off to my truck at one point as everything wanted to lean to the downhill side. (DUH!!) The canopy is 6'6" at the side but I have 2' leg extensions on the down hill side. Then I had to put all those cross bars in. Another one of those what was I thinking moments.  

To put the cover on you run a length of pipe through a pocket and tie ropes to it and throw the rope over the frame and pull. That is the same way we did the big hoop barn except then we had about 6 people pulling on the ropes. The cover went on pretty easily, it isn't exactly perfect and they don't give you any extra on the ends for the overlap. When DH is here and it isn't raining I will get on the ladder and "encourage" it to get a few wrinkles out while he is ratcheting down the cover. 

Now to get the does to walk about 50' from the barn to the corral in the rain might still be a challenge. I really don't want to build a covered walk way for them.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Next ya will be putting in a conveyor belt so they can just ride, like at airports....ya could always stick patio umbrellas in PVC pipe holders for them..... 
Good Luck with the inspection and Hope all goes well...


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I really don't want to build a covered walk way for them.


I guess you just don't care very much about the happiness of your goats! 



babsbag said:


> Another one of those what was I thinking moments.


Clearly you were thinking:





They have you put in the collar ties AFTER you've raised the roof???? 10' off the ground? Wouldn't the whole roof be easier to lift if they were already in place to keep the rafters from spreading out? The strongest shape is a triangle but it isn't a triangle without all 3 sides. I think, given a reasonable number of helpers, I'd even put the tarp on before raising the roof and that would only be a question of weight.



babsbag said:


> I am so close it is really frightening, not sure what the next step is.


Um, 

milk goats
pasteurize milk
bottle milk
put labels on bottles
sell milk
!!


----------



## babsbag

@Bruce Putting the tarp on is easy, throwing the rope over the frame took me a few tries. All those years of playing softball paid off so at least I don't "throw like a girl".  And yes, they have you put the collar ties on after it is raised, and they also don't give any clue as to  where they are to go. I would have liked for them to tell me that they are 'x' number of inches from the joint instead of dangling 14' in the air and wondering if I have them even; moving that orchard ladder alone is not easy so I move it as little as possible. Fortunately I have a good eye for distance so my first guess of "looks even to me" was spot on, but still, they could have told me it was 13" from the joint. 

And your list of what to do next looks so simple. I passed the test; no more boring reading to do.

The dairy and the processing plant are actually to separate licenses. The dairy may be certified next week after she tests my water, I design a way to drain the tubing I use for transferring milk, I get the correct charts for the chart recorder, and get water to the trailer that has the bathroom in it. All of that is easy. 

The processing plant has a few more things to do. But mostly she wants to see how I am going to clean the pasteurizer and I have to get a cover for a 2" port in a lid that I won't be using on the bottler. And last but not least, get the labels approved and the lab. Almost there.


----------



## Latestarter

You are an inspiration. Wish I had a fraction of your dedication/perseverance/will power. Not much longer till you're there.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Putting the tarp on is easy, throwing the rope over the frame took me a few tries. All those years of playing softball paid off so at least I don't "throw like a girl". And yes, they have you put the collar ties on after it is raised, and they also don't give any clue as to where they are to go. I would have liked for them to tell me that they are 'x' number of inches from the joint instead of dangling 14' in the air and wondering if I have them even



I can't imagine myself trusting a ladder leaning against the structure when there is NOTHING to keep it from wanting to lean side to side and maybe even collapse. In that structure the ONLY thing that keeps the rafters from spreading out at the bottom is the connection at the ridge and the collar ties. Not real strong without those ties!

I read the instructions after I can't figure out how to do things  I ASSUME there is a connector at the peak for the rafters that has a set angle. Seems like the EASIEST thing would be to put the top rafter pieces in place ON THE GROUND and figure out where the collar ties go based on the angle of the connector, then measure and make them all the same. Then put in the ridge pole pieces to make the roof, put in the lower rafter pieces and connect all the rafters with the bottom "top plate" pieces. Kind of like making trusses that are stuck on the top plates of a building, rather than building the roof structure "in place". Next time


----------



## babsbag

My ladder was not leaning on anything. The really tall one is a 3-legged orchard ladder and it is incredibly steady. Next time....sounds like a good plan and I hope I never need to use it.


----------



## Bruce

Oh, I was unaware that orchard ladders had a third leg. I thought they had to be shoved up in the tree, thus the narrow top.


----------



## babsbag

Orchard ladders on uneven ground are the best invention ever. I am thinking of getting a smaller one since we have a severe lack of level ground around here. 

I need some ideas. I need to put some corrugated tin on the front of my barn and it needs to go under the front edge of the tarp and attach to the pipe rafter.   This is the barn just for reference. We have built a lean-to off of the front but I have an open area above the roof of the lean-to and the top of the barn that needs to be closed in. I need ideas on how to cover the edge of the corrugated metal so it won't rub on the fabric cover. I thought of tape, foam pipe insulation, and drip tubing that has been slit. But due to the fact that it is corrugated metal all of those ideas and not real practical. Any suggestions?


----------



## Southern by choice

I thought the company made a cover that you could put on in the front or back.


----------



## babsbag

They do, and I have one. But the ultimate goal is to make something we can take off when the rain goes away, basically May-Oct.  The covers that they sell are designed to be put on permanently with tie down ratchets, wood frames, and clamps. I only have the end covers because they came with the barn when I bought it on closeout.


----------



## Latestarter

Is there any way that you can work with the provided canvas end gable pieces to reinforce the roof line edge and add grommets like every foot or so? Then you could essentially wire/zip tie it inside the roof canvas cover and over the roof end support pole? Then taking it back down would be as simple as cutting the zip ties... You could sew a "sleeve" at the bottom and slide a length of pipe through it to hold it down on the lean to roof so the wind can't blow in under it and cause stress on the zip ties or blow rain inside. 

You could search out an "Omar the tent maker" in your area that works with canvas to create it for you. I'd say buy and cut out a large tarp, but honestly, the store bought tarps have very little strength for something like this. They would shred before the winter season was over. You'd really need a tarp like the 18 wheel rigs use to cover their cargo on the road (stands up to all weather and sustained/prolonged 70-80 MPH winds).


----------



## babsbag

Last year we did use the "canvas" and used 2x4's at the bottom. The problem is the the panel is square, it doesn't match the curve of the barn so they want you to pull it through to the inside and then cut it to match the curve and then clamp it on. Since we already have the main cover on the barn it is very difficult to get the front panel under the bonnet to pull through to the inside; not something I want to repeat.


----------



## Bruce

I can certainly see the value to a 3 legged ladder. Awfully hard to get stability on non flat ground with 4 legs.


----------



## babsbag

Latestarter said:


> You are an inspiration. Wish I had a fraction of your dedication/perseverance/will power. Not much longer till you're there.



Thank you. But really I think that I am just stubborn. 

I decided to go with foam pipe insulation on the barn. The metal that I am using does not have a very pronounced corrugation pattern so the foam is working ok. I got half done today than I got wet and cold.  It is really fun to work standing on that roof, the green tin has no backing under it so I can't walk on it. I have to walk on 2x4's.  I like the way this is coming out, I might put some vents in for next summer instead of taking it down. Also thought of a solar powered exhaust fan. We will see how hot it gets next year compared to this last one.


----------



## Bruce

I think the solar powered exhaust fans are a great idea. Set it and forget it, no extra work as the seasons change. You have enough to do already!


----------



## babsbag

Project got done on Monday, rain started today. 

Here is the list for the processing plant. Anybody want to come and help me muddle through this?  Not a bad list at all, this should be the end of it. 

)Lab approval for Appendix N
2)Labels approved for fluid and cheese.
3)Containers and bottles from an approved source
4)Plant equipment approved before processing(fluid and cheese)
5)Seal open areas of walls around air conditioner and chiller hose
6)Provide an area to hang pump tubing to drain and cap ends
7)Provide soap/towels for hand wash sinks
8)Provide proper cover for filler lid where tubing enters lid.
9)Provide adequate drainage for Vat pasteurizer for product and washing
10)Provide dedicated brushes and hanger for washing Vat pasteurizer
11)Provide working toilet room. Flush toilet,Running warm water for hand wash, soap/towels, Light and ventilation.
12)Provide log book for Pasteurizer
13)Provide hair nets and clean outer clothing including shoes for processing
14)Clean all processing equipment/Provide approved food processing cleaners.
15)Vat pasteurizer thermometers to be checked by CDFA
16)Clean dry storage area/remove unnecessary items


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I'll help ya with #7!


----------



## Bruce

Getting close!


----------



## babsbag

@frustratedearthmother  You would pick the easy one.   The ones in *BOLD *are already done. A couple I will do tomorrow. 

#1 and #2 will be the hardest. I need to decide what flavors of Chevre I want and then figure out the ingredients. And I am trying to decide if I should name my cheese flavors. Stuff like that is really hard for me. 

1)Lab approval for Appendix N
2)Labels approved for fluid and cheese.
*3)Containers and bottles from an approved source*
4)Plant equipment approved before processing(fluid and cheese)
5)Seal open areas of walls around air conditioner and chiller hose 
6)Provide an area to hang pump tubing to drain and cap ends  
*7)Provide soap/towels for hand wash sinks*
8)Provide proper cover for filler lid where tubing enters lid.
9)Provide adequate drainage for Vat pasteurizer for product and washing
10)Provide dedicated brushes and hanger for washing Vat pasteurizer
*11)Provide working toilet room. Flush toilet,Running warm water for hand wash, soap/towels, Light and ventilation.*
*12)Provide log book for Pasteurizer*
13)Provide hair nets and clean outer clothing including shoes for processing (ordered)
14)Clean all processing equipment/Provide approved food processing cleaners.
*15)Vat pasteurizer thermometers to be checked by CDFA (not my job)*
16)Clean dry storage area/remove unnecessary items


----------



## babsbag

I hate shopping for clothes, but I really hate shopping for clothes that I hate...i.e. Labcoat for the processing room. UGH


----------



## CntryBoy777

Just get a white bathrobe with pockets....


----------



## babsbag

That might just be what I get.  I am looking for short sleeves so maybe a swimsuit cover up would be better.   I'm ready to just keep a change of clothes down there and go with the clean jeans and a t-shirt.

I sure am enjoying one click ordering on Amazon. Dangerous stuff.


----------



## babsbag

My list is not getting done very quickly...waiting for stuff to get here from Amazon. The inspector will be back on 11/29. Hopefully it will all be done by then, I need to do some practice runs on the bottler, DH brought home the milk cartons for me this week.

On the breeding goat front things have taken a twist. I used Lutalyse on two does to make them cycle, well one was bred. Oops...she isn't anymore. So this means that sometime before the middle of Sept. when I took out the bucklings they were able to do the deed. I don't want kids in Jan. but I also don't want to abort a bunch of pregnancies. I have 6 does that I have never seen in heat so I am thinking that they may already be bred. Two of them I would have really to have bred to Jumanji and one is a mini that I don't want bred to a Standard buck. I may lute her just to be sure.


----------



## Latestarter

wow... complicated situation you have to deal with...


----------



## babsbag

1)Lab approval for Appendix N (waiting on CDFA)
2)Labels approved for fluid and cheese. UGH!!!
*3)Containers and bottles from an approved source*
4)Plant equipment approved before processing(fluid and cheese)
5)Seal open areas of walls around air conditioner and chiller hose 
6)Provide an area to hang pump tubing to drain and cap ends 
*7)Provide soap/towels for hand wash sinks*
8)Provide proper cover for filler lid where tubing enters lid. *(ORDERED)*
9)Provide adequate drainage for Vat pasteurizer for product and washing 
10)Provide dedicated brushes and hanger for washing Vat pasteurizer*(ORDERED)*
*11)Provide working toilet room. Flush toilet,Running warm water for hand wash, soap/towels, Light and ventilation.*
*12)Provide log book for Pasteurizer*
13)Provide hair nets and clean outer clothing including shoes for processing *(ORDERED)*
14)Clean all processing equipment/Provide approved food processing cleaners.
*15)Vat pasteurizer thermometers to be checked by CDFA (not my job)*
16)Clean dry storage area/remove unnecessary items

Almost done. It is supposed to be raining tomorrow so I will knock out a few more. Spent the day today working on the buck pens since the sun was shining.

I think I have 7 does that will kid before the end of Jan and maybe even as early as the beginning of Jan. That was not on my planned list of things to do in Jan. but when has my schedule ever mattered? That means if I want to redo the floor in milk parlor and make a few other changes I need to do them in Dec.  Perhaps I need to stop milking, not getting much right now anyways, and move onto getting ready for next year.


----------



## Mike CHS

As always I continue to be impressed.  You are driven but in your case it seems to be a good thing.


----------



## Bruce

She'd probably like to be driven ... here, there, everywhere. Certainly reasonable given her high position in Jumping the Moon dairy.


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## babsbag

You guys are too funny. My DH just happened to tell me the other day that "he was here for me". Cracked me up as I certainly feel all alone most of the time. It was hard not to be snide. But when he is home he does drive me places that I want to go... (and some that I don't) But that is another story. 

There is just so much to do and I would really like to get it done this year, or at least before I die.


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## Bruce

I think you should get it done WELL before you die. Wouldn't do to not be around to make use of all that effort.


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## babsbag

I am so tired today that death sounds like a nice vacation...but no time to take a vacation. 

I got a few more things knocked off the list and spent a big part of the day working on labels. What a pain these things are. I would love to vacuum seal my cheese instead of using containers but not sure I can afford the sealer. But they way I pack it determines the size and shape of the label. I need to get with a plan and stick to it. 

It has been raining all day, and I mean ALL. Not usual weather for us and I am pretty tired of it already. I had to go and buy some straw to spread in the barn, wish those girls would wipe their feet, they make a mess in there. As soon as we get a break in the weather I need to move their waterer back inside the barn, they won't go out in the rain to get a drink. I swear they would rather die than get wet.  I like the waterer where it is now; out of the area where I walk everyday. But now that I think about this if I get the back extension built on the waterer might not be TOOOO far away and maybe they will use it.  Hmmm, think I will wait on the move. It is an auto waterer attached to a hose so not necessarily a quick move, I'm not sure that the new hose I bought this summer is long enough.

They absolutely would not come to get milked this morning, they just don't do rain, not even for grain. I guess I have to build them a covered walk way...this is crazy.


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## Latestarter

I know it would be more time consuming, but couldn't you "escort" them from the barn to the parlor? I mean, grab a-hold of them and MAKE them walk there? When you're done you just kick 'em out and let 'em fend for themselves. I'm sure they'll run back under cover. Mine will come out in the rain (light) for grain/treats.


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## babsbag

Escorting them would work if I could catch them. It is muddy and wet and at this point it is what it is.  The area where the gate is has about 3" of mud, it is a mess. I will be putting gravel down but not right now. Once I get this dairy done and especially the lab requirement I will dry them off. I need milk for the lab so I need to keep a few in milk for a few more weeks.


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## Bruce

Wait long enough and they'll get so uncomfortable they will come in despite the rain???


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## babsbag

Well, I figured out why she had been yelling for the last two hours. 






At least she had a lot of guardians.


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## frustratedearthmother

That's awesome, lol!  

Guess the dogs wanted to see how it all turned out.


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## babsbag

I had heard her screaming about life but figured it was because her herd had left her at the hay feeder while they went out to browse and she is very vocal so I wasn't too worried. When I left to go get hay the poor girl was wandering around in the pasture all alone and it took me a minute to figure out why she was there by herself. As soon as I stopped the truck the dogs showed up to see what was going on, Francis helped "herd" her over to the fence so I could remove the paint can and then they all hung around for a "family" picture.


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## Southern by choice

Amazing she didn't suffocate!

This is a great pic with all the dogs! Love it!


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## Latestarter

Was going to say the same thing. Think this is the first time that I've seen all the dogs. and in one spot no less. Impressive! Glad your goatie girl is now canless...


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## babsbag

She is the type that will find another can, she is such a pill. The property we bought is littered with stuff life that, it is a mess. The former owner was elderly and had lived there his entire life and things had gotten more than a little out of control as far cleanup. Then they died in a mobile home fire so nothing got cleaned up and debris from the fire got scattered as well. You can see an old shack in the picture, we intend to burn it down now that the fire danger has passed.   I have just been too busy with the dairy to clean it up and it was too hot. The goats have cleaned up all the weeds so it is certainly easier to see the garbage here there and everywhere; I need to get in there with Bobbi (bobcat tractor) and my dump trailer and get to work...maybe next year.


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## Bruce

Tell her next time it would be easier to paint using her tail, not her nose.


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## babsbag

1)Lab approval for Appendix N (waiting on CDFA)
2)Labels approved for fluid and cheese. (Sent to CDFA 11/20)

4)Plant equipment approved before processing(fluid and cheese)

*1*4)Clean all processing equipment/Provide approved food processing cleaners.
*15)Vat pasteurizer thermometers to be checked by CDFA (not my job)*
16)Clean dry storage area/remove unnecessary items

Getting there slowly but surely. I will have all but 1 & 2 done by 11/29. 

I have 7 does left to breed for sure and the verdict is out on 2 others. And then still 7 that I think are bred. One of the for sure needs to be bred does comes into heat every 5 days so I will be treating her with some Cystorelin to hopefully solve a condition called cystic ovaries. And just so I can educate those that don't know... ovarian cysts are nonovulated follicles with incomplete luteinization, which can result in nymphomania lol or irregular estrus.  Yup, she a nymphomaniac for sure. Every.Five. Days.


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## CntryBoy777

That's great Babs!!....ya just keep on whittlin' and it will all be done before ya know it. Ya know, I was thinking and when ya get it all done and accomplished and the milk is flowing....just how are ya going to handle not being so pushed to realize your Dream?....it will all be a reality then and there will be maintainence, but nothing driving ya to go so much or do so much.....do ya just think ya might could catch your breath every once in awhile then? Oh, I know....ya will find something else to push for....
I couldn't imagine every 5 days....our pygmy doe drives me crazy sometimes with her once a month cycle.


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## babsbag

The doe in constant heat, her name is Lucy, was running around today trying to be the buck with another doe that was in heat. Poor thing, she is a little confused. Hoping that she is in full blown heat tomorrow and I can give her a shot, the buck will do the deed, and it should fix the problem. 

I'm not sure what I will do when I am done building, it will certainly be a change in what I do everyday. First I guess I will  have to start a real journal and put this thread into retirement.   I will say that I am looking forward to doing something that doesn't require a saw and/or drill. I still have the buck pens to finish and I want to build a cover off the back of the barn. I really have too many goats in there and I need to give them some more room and another feeder. See, there I go with that saw and drill again. 

On another note totally not goat related I want to build a bigger pond in my backyard. I built a really pretty pond where I live before and I want to build another one very similar to this one. This is on my "to do" list for next summer or spring. I have a very small one that was supposed to be temporary...8 years ago. Time for an upgrade. I even have the pond liner already so no real excuse. I miss all the water plants that I used to have too. Gardening is my second passion, used to be my first, and gardening in water is even better.  I look at these pictures and find it so hard to remember living somewhere that wasn't just dirt and weeds. There are times I miss my nice clean neat and tidy yard. 

I will also expand my orchard, blueberries, and garden.


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## CntryBoy777

That is really nice and pretty....I want to try and do something for the ducks, but don't know what or how....I'm starting to research all that tho and get a direction and target.....hope the doe straightens her act out for ya....


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## frustratedearthmother

So pretty!  Closest thing I have to a water garden is a pond half covered in duckweed.


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## babsbag

I have a "wild" pond that is for the ducks. In the winter the rain and runoff keeps it full but in the summer I have to add water to it. It is in the chicken/duck yard and we do get frogs breeding there and I saw a few wild ducks in there the other day. I can't see it from my house, which is a little sad as I love watching the ducks. 

I like the above ground pond for me (my back during building and maintenance) and the goldfish. It keeps the wading birds, like herons, and also raccoons a little more challenged when they come to fish. The straight sides don't allow them to wade in the get the fish.  My next pond will be built with corrugated metal with the ribs running vertically and I will pop rivet them together at the seams. That will give me the ability to make the pond with a curved "natural" shape. I will use pipe insulation over the top edge to prevent the liner from tearing. Then put in the underlayment, then the liner and pull the liner over the edge of the metal. Once that is done I will build the outside part that supports the dirt. I will either use redwood or bricks. The bricks are nice but they harbor black widows, but they won't ever rot and I can curve them.   When that is done I will start filling the pond with water and the dirt in the planter at the same time so that there is no uneven pressure on the metal side walls. Then I will put those flat rocks over the edge of the pond liner to make it look like an "in the ground" pond.  With a lot of trial and error I learned how to make  in the pond biological filters and when we moved I brought those with me so I have most of what I need to redo the filters.  The biggest expense will probably be the dirt that I will need to fill the planting area, and the bricks if I go that route.  As you can tell, I have been thinking about this for a while.


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## frustratedearthmother

I really like the idea of the corrugated metal...sturdy and flexible at the same time. 


babsbag said:


> As you can tell, I have been thinking about this for a while.


Sounds like you've got a plan!  I'd love a backyard pond, but it's not really very far up on the 'to-do' list.   I guess for now the stock pond will have to do.


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## Bruce

See @CntryBoy777? If she doesn't have enough to do actually running the dairy (which I suspect is substantial), she has MORE than enough to keep her busy.


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## CntryBoy777

It sounds like I'll be PMing ya for some Q&A....your plan sounds really Awesome!!....


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## Latestarter

You might consider putting an add on CL for anyone getting rid of an above ground pool... You know, one of those round ones that are 48" high by 12+ feet wide... You could used the steel pool wall and put in any shape you'd like since you'll be supporting it on the outside. Instead of pipe insulation perhaps an old garden hose with a slit cut down its length? Might be more sturdy than the pipe insulation. Doesn't every farmer have an old hose around? The pictures of your old pond are beautiful. I'm sure the next one will be even better.


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## babsbag

CntryBoy777 said:


> It sounds like I'll be PMing ya for some Q&A....your plan sounds really Awesome!!....



Prior to moving to Anderson and getting goats ponds were my thing. I had looked into building one in the ground and spraying it with a product like spray on bed liners but it was out of my price range. I played around with all different kinds of filters, in and out of the pond, and discovered what worked best for me. I had a pond made from a preformed liner for quite a few years and then wanted something bigger so I built the raised one and learned a few things on that project too.  Ponds are a lot of fun, a way to garden in water, clean and cool. Kinda nice. I have not built a waterfall, not because I don't like them but I think that have to be in just the right spot in a yard or they look out of place. IMO they need to be in a corner or up against a natural embankment and not look like a weird mountain coming out of a flat piece of ground. 

@Latestarter  I did think about pool siding, but I don't really want to 4' deep pond all above ground. I have thought about cutting it though. As far as the top edge, if I use corrugated I need something that spreads pretty well to accommodate the corrugation. If I use a pool line a hose would work, but they also make a coping strip designed just for pools. I have installed a couple of those pools in my day. 

On the dairy front...the dairy (milking parlor) side of the project is DONE. I now own a certified Grade A dairy. I still have a few more (new) things to finish in the processing side. Almost there. The lab evaluation officer is coming tomorrow and hopefully that will be done.  Still waiting on labels.  I am so tired I can't even be excited right now, maybe tomorrow.


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats on the official dairy


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## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> On the dairy front...the dairy (milking parlor) side of the project is DONE.


That is absolutely awesome!


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## CntryBoy777

Hip-Hip-Hooray!!!.....
It certainly has been an eventful Journey and am so Happy for the Reward of all your hard toil, sweat, blood, tears, and endless nights of lost sleep to get to this Point. Though there may be some challenges ahead....I surely wish ya extremely Smooth Sailing for a long while to come.....


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## HomeOnTheRange

Huge CONGRATS on the dairy!


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## Baymule

Take a picture of your first bottle of milk! Then frame it and hang it on the wall. You have worked long and hard on this, congratulations.


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## babsbag

Today I had training for the testing I have to do to make sure that there are no traces off Penicillin in my milk. It isn't enough to swear on a stack of Bibles and on the life of my first born, I have to prove it.

OMG...anyone that thinks that there is any Pen in our commercial milk supply has not been around a processing plant. Every batch of milk I pasteurize has to be tested...ok. But before that actual test I have to run a calibration check on the machine, then run a positive and negative control test and then run the real deal. If by some chance I do get a positive reading I have to run the control tests over and then run two more samples through the testing. If it still comes up positive I can choose to throw the milk away or send a sample out to a confirming lab for testing. Either way I would have to fill out a mile long form and notify the CDFA that I had a positive test. It also stores the results of the positive test in the machine which gets checked every 3 months. Good golly, I didn't know owning a dairy meant Chemistry 101 all over again.

My little 1 cu. ft. refrigerator has two thermometers in it, one for each shelf, they are literally 4" apart. The thermometer has to be checked against a reference thermometer once a year but every day I have to log what the temp is. The little tiny freezer too, but it only has one thermometer. It is just crazy.

So the moral of this story, don't use any Pen or beta lactam family drugs on the goats.  They are doing a pilot program testing for tetracycline and they may add sulfa at some point. This is the FDA, not just my state so technically all milk processing plants should be doing this, but I bet that they aren't.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I now own a certified Grade A dairy.






babsbag said:


> My little 1 cu. ft. refrigerator has two thermometers in it, one for each shelf, they are literally 4" apart. The thermometer has to be checked against a reference thermometer once a year but every day I have to log what the temp is. The little tiny freezer too, but it only has one thermometer. It is just crazy.


And every time you open the door, the temp raises a bit while you are reading the thermometers. Don't tell them I said this but I'm surprised they don't force you to put in remote reading thermometers.


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## babsbag

They didn't tell me to buy remote but I did.


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## misfitmorgan

Finally caught up!!!

Wow Babs you have been super busy. Congrats on your dairy 
I hope things go smoothly and possibly more restfully from here on out!


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## Wehner Homestead

I've read your whole journal on your dairy! Very neat. Now I'm wondering if that's what I should do?? I need to be home more with my medical needs kiddo but who do I get to care for things if she's in the hospital?? I'd need to have a least one trained employee to run things with almost no notice...if I go this route, a visit is definitely in the works. I'll help you and see how you run things!!


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## misfitmorgan

One of the first steps is make sure there is a market in your area or milk trucks come to your area. In our area there is not a big enough market and no milk trucks come this way, not for goat's milk. We thought about buying a milk truck too but they are way way way way expensive like 1/4 of a million expensive.


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## Wehner Homestead

There's a demand!  We actually aren't far from Goat Milk Stuff. They have a website.


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## babsbag

Goat Milk Stuff is a great site. 

To be honest my biggest problem (and it is a big one) is marketing. I am really bad at it. I need to find someone that is in love with my dairy and my products that will spend mornings at the farmer's markets for me. They need to believe in what I do, not just sit behind a table.  We have a market almost every day of the week, all within 20 miles of my place. Or I need to train someone to come and milk while I get out of my comfort zone and go to market. I am set up to do cheese and fluid milk but I honestly hope that I can sell it all as fluid milk on a subscription basis and skip the cheese this year. (and the markets). The first place I am going to advertise is Craigslist and then I am going to talk to a few specialty markets and see about selling it there. Any that I don't sell will go in the freezer for cheese milk or kid milk. 

I am working on pricing for the milk and waiting on an insurance quote  before I make the commitment to price. I am thinking $10.00 a half gallon. It is a little over $5 for a quart at the grocery store and that stuff is nasty.  I would rather set my price high and come down instead of the other way around.  Cheese I have not worked out pricing at all but at one time (when I got my loan) I think I had planned on $16 a pound for chevre but I may be wrong.  I need to check prices at the store. 

You are welcome to come and visit any time. I did the same to @Southern by choice. I had never met her, talked on the phone a bit, and invited myself to her place for a week so I could visit some dairies in NC. Best trip ever, I met a wonderful family, made new friends, and visited some inspiring dairies.  I need to find another excuse to visit her.


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## Wehner Homestead

A gallon of goat milk here is $16! That's why we got our own goats instead of buying them. Just having caprine milk instead of bovine milk has helped DD2s digestive issues drastically. My goal is to replace all of her dairy with caprine. I'm learning and growing my herd at the same time. Who knows where this adventure will take me!!??


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## babsbag

Be careful, be very very careful. I started with 3 Alpine/Togg does in 2008. I told my husband I would like to milk them and if I enjoyed it I would continue and if not then I never had to breed them again. Took them back to the person we bought them from for breeding and the kids ended up all does, and I kept them all. Now look at me.  It has gone on from there. Of the 26 Alpine does I own only 5 were not born here. They are like rabbits.  If those 26 does give me 13 does (50/50 odds) I am in big trouble as I am keeping all Alpine does born here this year. YIKES!!!!


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## Wehner Homestead

Goat math!!! 
I have three Does bred and waiting on one more to breed for Fall since she's my main milk producer. I plan to keep all doelings born here. I have reservations on five doelings, if they are produced. We will have our own three bucks. Of course I'll need to keep any doelings to see how they produce. We started in June with Nigees! I think we have goat math down really well! Lol


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## Wehner Homestead

Oh and I think @Southern by choice has me convinced on the MiniManchas!!


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## farmerjan

Thank goodness our cows mostly only have singles at birth....... and I am very critical of the calves and what heifers to keep..... NO WAY would I want to deal with multiple births like that.  The males are easy for us.  They get castrated and get sold for feeder steers.. none of this cute and cuddly stuff.. HA HA.  Occasionally we will keep a bull intact out of a really good cow to see if he has potential for a replacement herd sire.  It gets expensive when we spend an average of $2500 to $3500 per breeding bull.  But we have to be careful to not get into inbreeding problems.  Buying most of our breeding bulls helps to keep that to a minimum.  We have bought several from the same farm though so have had to be a little more careful when we do get another.


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## goatgurl

be really careful, goat math is a real and dangerous thing.  many, many years I started with 3 little goats who over the years became somewhere between 50-60 goats, all does except 2 and a semen tank full of "boys".  after a divorce,(wonder why???) and a 1000+ mile move home I only have 6 does and 1 buck.  the question of how much milk can one old woman drink brings me to the answer...not that much but I can't bring myself to whittle down more just yet.   someday maybe, just not yet.
babs the picture of your goat with her head in the can reminded me that not just my goats do dumb things.
 I make a lot of scoops out of detergent bottles and had left this one laying in the goat yard, marco chewed it up and Felisha promptly got her head stuck in it.  made me laugh at the silly girl.
  if I ever decide to run away from home i'll come to your house and be your salesman or woman as the case would be.  I love the craft fairs and or farmers markets and don't hesitate to run my mouth given half a chance.  my mom was Cherokee and french and my dad was irish.  guess who I take after, yup have that gift of gab thing going on.  str#1 much more stoic, quiet and has a lot of artistic talent.  me, nope, just like to run my mouth and grow things.  i'll let youo know if I ever decide to hide from the world.  big congrats on getting things complete.  you've been working long and hard for this and i'm really happy for you.


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## Southern by choice

Yes, goat math can be challenging but IMO you do need to retain in order to narrow down the herd. I know it sounds contradictory but truth is we have gone up to over 50 goats, then back down. I want good udders, great producers, great growers, healthy hardy goats with the best feed conversion and most importantly- goats that want to forage, do forage and have great parasite resistance. I know the last part is a bit lost on you Babs because your area (unless irrigated) just doesn't have parasite issues. Be thankful! 
I also like to see what a buck is producing, again, you have to retain.
My goal is- 
5- Standard Lamancha does
5-7 miniature lamancha does
10-12 Nigerian does ???? Not sure as they are @Goat Whisperer 's breed... whatever she thinks she needs for her program...

7 bucks total 

Way more milk than we can use but there is the other side... alot goes to the kids, we utilize a lot, then we can also feed our friend's pigs etc... they in turn can feed their family... we can't sell milk here for Human Consumption unless we are a licensed dairy and we do NOT ever bootleg. We can sell or give away for animals etc...We have helped others feed lambs who lost their dam... puppies that were struggling etc.... either we have to know the person so we know for sure they are NOT using it for Human Consumption or they have to be referred to us by our vet or extension etc. I would eventually like to be able to give to the shelters etc.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I am working on pricing for the milk and waiting on an insurance quote before I make the commitment to price. I am thinking $10.00 a half gallon. It is a little over $5 for a quart at the grocery store and that stuff is nasty.


What does goat milk sell for at the Farmer's Markets? Sometimes it is best to start a bit low to drive interest and raise the price later. That is what Ray did with the Boar's Head uncured ham he brought in at my request. Started $0.50/lb lower that what he expected to charge if there was interest. It sold fast, to the point I couldn't get it unless I was there on Friday afternoon when his meat shipments come in. It was still cheaper than most of the other hams other than the really processed "water added" hams when he went up.  That is unusual because "uncured" is "special" and always more expensive than "cured".

Then his wholesaler figured out people were buying it and jacked the price $1/lb so Ray had to follow. Supply and demand I guess but unless Boar's Head jacked the price to the wholesaler, he's just greedy scum.
It is still cheaper than some of the other hams.


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## goatgurl

ahhh Southern I so agree with you about retaining to see what you have and what you need to keep.  I just over did it by a long shot.  if you want milk for home use and don't need gallons and gallons it may be easier to find a good doe or 2 or 3 to purchase for that purpose instead of keeping so many of your own but if on the other hand you want to breed for not just show and sell but to improve your animals so that you can be the one that i'd buy that 2 or 3 does from then you almost have to retain the biggest part of your kids to see where the improvements have been made or are still needed.  its a catch 22.  each person has to decide what is best for themselves and their family.  I for one am happy to let you breed great goats so i'll know where to go when I stop breeding


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## OneFineAcre

Congratulations on getting the dairy finished


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## babsbag

I am keeping all the alpines this year because my awesome young buck has those special genes for cheese making and he will pass them on to his kids so they all stay this year.  I am also hoping to buy two unrelated does from the same herd that will also carry at least one of the two genes so then next year I will have a better chance of getting some does that carry both genes.

I am still struggling with what to do with older does. I wish someone would just come and make those hard decisions for me while I am not looking. Three of my best milkers are being knuckle heads for breeding this year. Two are short cycling and one has normal heats but won't settle. The normal heat one doesn't surprise me since her kidding last year was a total surprise after 3 or 4 years of no kids. If she comes back into heat here in a few days I will put her with my  Lamancha buck as that is who she settled with last year. The other two...one is a doe I luted and aborted 7 weeks ago so who knows how much she is messed up. And the other I have done cystorelin twice and we will see. Both of those should be back in heat tomorrow if it still didn't work.

@Bruce, there is no one selling milk at farmer's markets. There is milk for sale in the grocery stores and at the health food store. And maybe at Trader Joe's. As far as local cheese and milk for goats I am it.  I just hate to raise prices, I feel like if you get people committed and convinced and then up the price it just looks bad. 

@goatgurl I would love to have you. Let me know if you want to move to CA. But no one wants to move to CA so who am I fooling. I need to find someone though, or else learn how to clone myself. My DH would be good at the job and he is hoping to retire next Dec but he has no interest in the dairy or marketing. He would do it an emergency but not on a regular basis, which is too bad. But I'm not going to force the issue. God (and @Southern by choice) got me this far so something will come along.


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## misfitmorgan

You might consider rehoming the ones who are not getting bred, They may pass that trait onto their offspring which could quickly become a problem down the road.


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## babsbag

@misfitmorgan  Two of them have a reason. One lost a kid in utero her first pregnancy and most likely had a uterine infection that caused scar tissue. We treated her with a flush a year later but obviously that will clear up the scar tissue problem. She cycles normally AND comes into milk 5 months after  her last heat so I always gave her a pass. 

The other one was bred, I didn't know it, and I gave her lute to force a heat. I have two does that I did that too.  I am guessing that her hormones are a mess or she could have contracted an infection during her abortion. 

The third one is a mystery. Infection is always a possibility carried over from last year but it was not a difficult or assisted birth so she would not be on my radar for an infection. I will do a uterine flush if she comes back into heat this weekend.  This should have been her 4th or 5th kidding.  If I have to move her out of here I will be sad. She is my "goat-dog". She follows be everywhere.


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## misfitmorgan

It does seem like the first two do have a good reason then. When ours had a uterine infection we could smell it...easily if you got any where near their back end. The only two that ever had a problem for us, one had a very long hard labor as a FF and the other had twins and one had mummified in the last few weeks before birth. We did a course of penicillin and they cleared up.

The third one.....it always seems to be the nicest or friendliest ones that dont perform how you would like. You could always decide to keep her as a pet and give yourself a set limit on number of pets. That is what we did. DH will allow me one gilt/sow pet and one boar pet for the pigs...he also gets one of each. For the goats/sheep i dont need to worry until numbers get back up then i will need to choose who to keep.

I really hope all the does and ewes are bred. Phoebe is the only one of our current goats who had a kid last year(every year always and twins), the 3 togs were to young and our alpine has not had a kid in 2yrs. Very much hoping for some doe kids. On the sheep side we only have one 2F adult ewe, and 2 1F adult ewe, the other 2 ewe i doubt got bred this year as they were born this past spring. We have two rams, we took our less desirable ram out of the pen and sent him to a friends farm for a month to give our good ram first shot so to speak. So hopefully he got the girls and if not hopefully our smaller ram got them. We had warmer weather for longer so the 2 young ewes may have gotten bred the past week or so. If phoebe is true to form she will kid on the coldest day in February she can find and at 2-4am.


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## babsbag

Do #3 is back in heat today 

The one I aborted should be in heat today as so far is not. Praying that the Cystorelin injection worked for her. Mocha should be in heat 1/3-1/6 if she didn't settle. She also had a mummified kid years back and that caused her to abort very close to her due date with the mummy and a dead kid that was obviously much farther along. I should have treated at the time but that was before I  knew much about goats. If she comes into heat she will be going in with the LaMancha buck and see if that makes a difference since it did last year.


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## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:


> , family... we can't sell milk here for Human Consumption unless we are a licensed dairy and we do NOT ever bootleg. We can sell or give away for animals etc...We have helped others feed lambs who lost their dam... puppies that were struggling etc.... either we have to know the person so we know for sure they are NOT using it for Human Consumption or they have to be referred to us by our vet or extension etc.


I do not share your reservations on this subject.  We had our best year in both milk sales and cheese sales.  We sell cheese to 2 small sandwich shops/deli's.  We couldn't make enough.
We sell milk for 10 per gallon and chevere for 16 per pound


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> I do not share your reservations on this subject.  We had our best year in both milk sales and cheese sales.  We sell cheese to 2 small sandwich shops/deli's.  We couldn't make enough.
> We sell milk for 10 per gallon and chevere for 16 per pound


I am only responsible for myself, what others do is their business.

I didn't say I necessarily agree with the food laws but they are what they are. 
I would much rather be able to take extra milk, and make cheese to give to families that are struggling and in need. It really stinks that the dairy laws won't allow it. Shake my head at some of this as there are so many families that need help.


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## farmerjan

Don't know the particulars of the laws there, but Va is also an "anti-raw milk state"  and very adamant about it.  You can sell milk for pet food, and there was talk about making it mandatory to put a "charcoal colored dye"  in it so that it would not be drunk by humans.  In fact I believe there is a state that requires that.  Anyway, there were some people that had goats and were making cheese and selling it at a few farmers markets.  They had a real good following.  The "milk police" cracked down and said that by law they couldn't sell it.  So they researched it and there is nothing that says you can't give away what you make as long as it is disclosed what it is made of.  There are several cottage bake industries that allow this and that but not something else.  Really convoluted.  
So this couple goes back to the farmers markets and starts giving it away and by law you can take donations.  They actually made more by getting donations than when they were selling it.  There wasn't a single thing that could be done because  any of the donations were for the "packaging"  and the actual product was free.  There was no signs or anything, just if people asked why it was really free, like non-customers, they were told that it could not be legally sold in Va but that the goat owners really liked making it and wanted people to be able to taste cheese made from goats milk.  If anyone asked about the jar with the money in it, they were told that some people were making donations for the expensive packaging that they used.
They went to court twice over it and the second time the judge said to not bother bringing them back into court, that they were not breaking any laws and if they wanted to give it away they were free to do so;  and there were no laws that said a person couldn't make a donation to someone else.  If that was the case then they would shut down every fire dept and police charity organization and even the salvation army for the bell ringing.


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## Baymule

Happy New Year babs! May 2018 bring you customers with money in their hands, clamoring for MORE MILK!


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## OneFineAcre

farmerjan said:


> Don't know the particulars of the laws there, but Va is also an "anti-raw milk state"  and very adamant about it.  You can sell milk for pet food, and there was talk about making it mandatory to put a "charcoal colored dye"  in it so that it would not be drunk by humans.  In fact I believe there is a state that requires that.  Anyway, there were some people that had goats and were making cheese and selling it at a few farmers markets.  They had a real good following.  The "milk police" cracked down and said that by law they couldn't sell it.  So they researched it and there is nothing that says you can't give away what you make as long as it is disclosed what it is made of.  There are several cottage bake industries that allow this and that but not something else.  Really convoluted.
> So this couple goes back to the farmers markets and starts giving it away and by law you can take donations.  They actually made more by getting donations than when they were selling it.  There wasn't a single thing that could be done because  any of the donations were for the "packaging"  and the actual product was free.  There was no signs or anything, just if people asked why it was really free, like non-customers, they were told that it could not be legally sold in Va but that the goat owners really liked making it and wanted people to be able to taste cheese made from goats milk.  If anyone asked about the jar with the money in it, they were told that some people were making donations for the expensive packaging that they used.
> They went to court twice over it and the second time the judge said to not bother bringing them back into court, that they were not breaking any laws and if they wanted to give it away they were free to do so;  and there were no laws that said a person couldn't make a donation to someone else.  If that was the case then they would shut down every fire dept and police charity organization and even the salvation army for the bell ringing.


That's kind of like how it is here 
"Pet Cosumption" is just an end around 
We couldn't possibly end up in the black with out our our cheese and milk sales


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## babsbag

I may not even end in the black with the milk and cheese sales. 

In CA we can not give the milk away, its in the code. I was giving milk away for some pigs and the inspector was nice enough to look the other way.  We are not allowed pet sales either.

@Baymule, thank you for the well wishes. I hope you have a good 2018 too.


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## Mini Horses

farmerjan said:


> So they researched it and there is nothing that says you can't give away what you make as long as it is disclosed what it is made of. There are several cottage bake industries that allow this and that but not something else. Really convoluted.



Some of the cottage laws are really odd here....you can sell from the farm but NOT from your house....build a little shack for pickup.   You can/can't deliver.  ETC.

In my area there are at least five farms that sell "herd shares" which allows you to "own" a portion of the herd/animal (they buy a share, pay a monthly board fee for the animal & receive a set amount of milk) and THAT MEANS you are using your own animals milk and they cannot prevent that.   Raw milk use by owners is ok.   I'm waiting for them to say that I cannot consume my own animal milk raw!  

I often make cheese & share with others.


----------



## farmerjan

Herd Shares are in the "grey area" but are allowed at this point and time in Va.   A couple of farms here do real good with it.  Cannot make deliveries supposedly, but there are farms that do make deliveries directly to the "herd share"  or "cow share" owner.  I am not so big on alot of the laws;  and they say they are to protect the public,  but again, it would be a whole lot better if they just had these small "dairies - farm shares "  just have to meet minimum "MILK QUALITY"  requirements and let them share - sell - give away their milk. 
There are many states that allow the sale of raw milk and if Va  had some minimum regulation /requirements as to the cleanliness of the milk we would be better off.  
There are many dairies that I test for that I would not drink the milk raw out of their tank because I don't agree with the way they follow the rules.  And there are a few that I would shut down in a minute even though they are doing all that is required by law. 
I am not as concerned about the ones that want to drink raw milk as I am about the ones who depend on the GOV'T to keep them safe and then scream that something is not "good for them"  when they are eating and drinking themselves into obesity oblivion.


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## farmerjan

If you have questions or concerns about some of the laws, "REAL MILK . com"  with the Weston A. Price Foundation is a good place to start.  Also "Farm to Consumer Legal Defense Fund"  has information and even video "classes" on how to procede for raw milk sales.


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## babsbag

No legal herd shares in CA but there are a few here and there that have survived but only because they haven't been found. But CA for all of its craziness does at least allow raw milk sales if you are licensed for it, some states don't allow it all. I am not selling raw milk, never will, e-coli and salmonella can't be seen and I could never live with myself if I unknowingly sickened or killed someone, especially a child. Some of those disease can have some serious consequences.


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## Mini Horses

I often visit Raw Milk.com.   They keep up with most changes and challenges for raw milk.   I have NO issues with pasteurizing but, I just don't. I use my own goats milk.  If making cheese, the temps actually pasturize it most of the time.   Some not so but, most.


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## babsbag

I don't pasteurize what I drink but all the rest goes in the pot.


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## misfitmorgan

We have similar rules. No milk sales to the public allowed, raw or otherwise but you can do herdshares. You have to be very careful doing them as some farms have been caught "selling" milk thru herdshares. As in someone came along asking for info and in explaining the herdshare they stated something like "yes they would sell them the milk after they paid a herdshare" after being asked over and over to explain it aka the person faking they didnt understand. Which legally is not how it works.

I believe we should be allowed to sell milk raw or otherwise or cheese, etc so long as it comes with information on how to pasteurize it and a warning that it is not pasteurized and what could happen. people also "sell" yogurt, cheese, butter, ice cream etc...as parts of the herdshares.


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## babsbag

Lyla is my mystery goat. We did a sonogram on Lyla and she is pregnant and you can see kids moving. She is a mystery as I am sure I saw her in heat twice when Jumanji had a broken leg. I really wanted to breed her to him so I waited and I wrote down the dates she would be in heat again. When those dates came I never saw evidence of heat but I did have Jumanji with her on those dates.  I am hoping that she is only 2.5 months bred but this morning she had a mucous string and I don't think that they lose the plug this early. No kidding season would be complete without a mystery...or 7.


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## Southern by choice

babsbag said:


> No kidding season would be complete without a mystery...or 7.


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## misfitmorgan

Losing plug 6-7 weeks before kidding isnt unheard of, we had two ND(twin sisters) that would lose some thru the last 4 months of being pregnant but delivered healthy twins or trips every time. I would just keep an eye on her and hope for the best. Who would have bred her if she was due in the next 2 months?


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## babsbag

misfitmorgan said:


> Who would have bred her if she was due in the next 2 months?



Either a mini Alpine or a LM. Neither are horrible but she is nice older doe and this may be her last kidding and I would love a doeling from her for replacement.


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## misfitmorgan

I hope for the best and hope she gives you twin does!


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## babsbag

Jump gates work...for big goats. I am on revision 6 and as of revision 5 Jumanji and my mini buck could use them just as well as the dogs. I started off with the gates too low and I have been gradually raising them. I also think that the gates are too wide so I added some pieces to the side on revision 4 and more on revision 5. The dogs still use them. Something happened and now Alondra won't use them, she did on day one, I heard her yip and now she won't go through the gate. I am sure she will get over it but I have three other dogs that use them so I am certainly not worried. 

So my three young bucks are in their new pen, they just need to stay there. If they don't I may put them in the pen where the big boys are and put the big boys in the new pen. There is no way that they would go through the jump gate. 

I have been working on setting up my barn cams. I have not had them installed in the new barn so I have some hoops to jump through. It is too far to go wireless so I also need to buy some cable and a new set of crimpers to put ends on the cables. I am using Power over Ethernet so each camera will be hard wired to the switch and then one cable to the repeater and then wireless from the repeater to my house.  I have three different brands of cameras and they have features I like and some I don't. I need one more camera and trying to decide if pan and tilt is worth the money or if just a good wide angle lens will be enough. I hope to get them mounted this week. It is supposed to rain most of the week so this is good indoor work. I would rather be planting my new orchard but the weather is not cooperating too much. I got 5 out of 14 trees planted before it started raining. 

Tomorrow I am building a new hay feeder. I don't have enough feeder room so some ladies are eating off of the ground. Tomorrow that should change...I hope.


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## Mini Horses

Are you operating the dairy yet?    Maybe waiting for the ladies to freshen?   Yeah, that is needed for milk 

So, once open, do you plan to stagger the kidding to also stagger does in milk?   Maybe you haven't gotten that far... of course, sales would also affect that decision.

I'm just anxious to see it "working"  so you don't just have an expensive milking parlor.


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## Baymule

Can you post a picture of the jump gates and also the dimensions? Pleeeze!


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## Bruce

I Would think pan/tilt would be better than wide angle unless the space is small. 
What is that over there in the corner? Dang, gotta get dressed and go look to find out.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Can you post a picture of the jump gates and also the dimensions? Pleeeze!



I found this which may or may not be helpful. Its alsmost all the way to the bottom of the page. Shows a jumpgate with measurements.

http://www.cornerstoneacresfarm.com/greatpyrenees.htm



babsbag said:


> Jump gates work...for big goats. I am on revision 6 and as of revision 5 Jumanji and my mini buck could use them just as well as the dogs. I started off with the gates too low and I have been gradually raising them. I also think that the gates are too wide so I added some pieces to the side on revision 4 and more on revision 5. The dogs still use them. Something happened and now Alondra won't use them, she did on day one, I heard her yip and now she won't go through the gate. I am sure she will get over it but I have three other dogs that use them so I am certainly not worried.
> 
> So my three young bucks are in their new pen, they just need to stay there. If they don't I may put them in the pen where the big boys are and put the big boys in the new pen. There is no way that they would go through the jump gate.
> 
> I have been working on setting up my barn cams. I have not had them installed in the new barn so I have some hoops to jump through. It is too far to go wireless so I also need to buy some cable and a new set of crimpers to put ends on the cables. I am using Power over Ethernet so each camera will be hard wired to the switch and then one cable to the repeater and then wireless from the repeater to my house.  I have three different brands of cameras and they have features I like and some I don't. I need one more camera and trying to decide if pan and tilt is worth the money or if just a good wide angle lens will be enough. I hope to get them mounted this week. It is supposed to rain most of the week so this is good indoor work. I would rather be planting my new orchard but the weather is not cooperating too much. I got 5 out of 14 trees planted before it started raining.
> 
> Tomorrow I am building a new hay feeder. I don't have enough feeder room so some ladies are eating off of the ground. Tomorrow that should change...I hope.



i'm sure you will get the gate figured out and get the cameras up in no time. It is raining here today too and yesterday a bit.


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## Wehner Homestead

I’m going to check out these jump gates too!


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## babsbag

So far revision 6 is working but I don't know that I will trust these when the does are in heat next year. I went to take a picture after having the phone in my pocket for a few hours and the battery was dead. Mine looks like the one posted above but I kept adding 2x4s to the sides to make it narrower so it looks rather "patched". I didn't want to just move the boards each time as that would leave my cut edges of fencing exposed. 

The measurements on mine are 
22' top
17" side
7" across the bottom of the triangle
 opening is 29" off of the ground. 

I also put plywood on the fence below the gate to keep the goats from standing on the fence, this is in stock panel so they were standing on the fence and giving themselves a boost over the gate. 

When I built these I simply put the top and bottom board on one side of the fence and the sides on the other and the fence was sandwiched in between.  Then I used my grinder to cut the fence.  When I got them the way I wanted my plan was to add another board to cover the edge of the fence so there were no sharp edges and nothing to get a dew claw caught on.
@Bruce, I have 5 cameras, one pan and tilt, and the other are wide angle. Two of them are adjustable focal length and width but not software controlled, it is two screws that you have to adjust. We will see how that works. Trying to see the picture and adjust at the same time, in a barn, might be challenging. I will have to make it work on my phone as I am not hauling my laptop down there. It seems though that these two cameras have a horrible lag time on live video, and they aren't wireless. Video should be much much better on my local LAN, like 0 lag. That makes me not buy another one even if the other features are good. 

 My favorite cameras picture wise are Airsight  X10 cameras, but right now I have one that is not working, can't get an IP address no matter what I try and I have tried it all.  I used it a few years ago so I know it worked and I know what its IP address should be. Tried the reset and that didn't work either. So I am reluctant to by another one like it for fear that the cameras are not well made. 

There aren't a lot of pan and tilt cameras that are not domes, and dome cameras are too hard to mount in my barn so I need a bullet type. They are also quite a bit more money.  But I am going to try one on Amazon that has good reviews and this time get it installed before the return period expires. 

If I didn't have a dairy to run and I didn't mind traveling I would install cameras for peoples barn professionally. I see questions about them all over FB, there is a big market out there.

Today I am going to build a new feeder. Yesterday I did CDT, pneumonia, and Multi-min shots on all the does but 4. I started to do feet buy couldn't find my good trimmers so decided I would do feet as they kid.  Much easier to do a few a day than 50. I need to do bucks too...as soon as rut is over.


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## babsbag

Feeder is done. And the jump gates are still holding strong.


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## misfitmorgan

No feeder pictures 

 i wanted to be the first to ask


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## Wehner Homestead




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## babsbag

Thanks.  I'll work on that, or I could just post a link to the directions from Premier 1. Seriously, that feeder is my favorite. Good directions, easy to build. I use the 4x4 cattle panels from TSC but I do have one with the Premier panels and I do like them the best, I think they are 3x5 squares. I have decided to do fence line feeders instead of double sided free standing as it will make the barn easier to clean. I have two double sided ones that I will be modifying and turning into single sided but I need to do it when the goats are locked out on a nice day as it is very hard to work with helpful animals constantly tasting my tools and boxes of screws.  But at least for now  no more feeding a pile on the ground. 

I am going to start on installing cameras today. Kidding starts soon.


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Thanks.  I'll work on that, or I could just post a link to the directions from Premier 1. Seriously, that feeder is my favorite. Good directions, easy to build. I use the 4x4 cattle panels from TSC but I do have one with the Premier panels and I do like them the best, I think they are 3x5 squares. I have decided to do fence line feeders instead of double sided free standing as it will make the barn easier to clean. I have two double sided ones that I will be modifying and turning into single sided but I need to do it when the goats are locked out on a nice day as it is very hard to work with helpful animals constantly tasting my tools and boxes of screws.  But at least for now  no more feeding a pile on the ground.
> 
> I am going to start on installing cameras today. Kidding starts soon.



We have the same plan Babs, the premier style fenceline feeders with a slight modification so we can grain in the same feeders. Sick of getting run over and the hay waste, not that we are short on hay it just is a pain to clean out without a tractor. I would probly prefer the premier1 panels myself but i cant justify the cost. The TSC 4x4 is 4'x16' meaning i can make 4 single sided feeders that are each 8' long out of one $58 panel. To do the same with premier panels it would cost $314 in panels, i love their stuff but paying 6 times the price to get 3x5 instead of 4x4 wouldn't make sense to me.

Best of luck with the camera install too!!


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## babsbag

If I was showing my goats I would have to spring for the premier panels. My goats sometimes rub off all of the hair on the bridge of their nose from the 4x4 panels. But since I don't show, no big deal.


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## babsbag

Well I didn't get as much done as I had hoped. I had to make a hay run and stupid indoor cat decided he needed to be an outdoor cat so I spent about an hour trying to catch him, he went under the deck. Finally gave up and told my outdoor cat to babysit and started on the camera stuff. I needed to mount a board on the barn to mount the cameras too as I have a hoop barn and it has steel ribs. I wanted  a board to span the ribs so I could mount a camera wherever I wanted it. I thought of a few ways to do this but ended up using electrical ties that have a place for a screw and fastened that to the ribs and then around the boards. The boards are 1 x 4's so fairly lightweight. Boy or boy is that steel hard!!!!  Anyway I got all the boards up that I had and for some reason I am a board short, I bought these last year. So off to lumber yard tomorrow. 

By that time is was close to dark and I still had to catch the cat, which I finally did. Then I had to reunite a chick with its mom, somehow it got separated and the hen was already under the hay barn for the night and the little chick was chirping and didn't know where to go. It was dark so I had to go and get a light, crawl around in the dirt and find the hen and then convince the chick and hen that they belonged together. Geesh. Animals hate be today. 

So tomorrow is another day and it had better go better. I need to get this stuff done.


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## CntryBoy777

Ya know....most every time I read your thread I'm reminded of that storybook we grew up with entitled The Little Red Hen....my Mom reminded me of that book too.....


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## babsbag

Now I am going to have to find that book and read it.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Then I had to reunite a chick with its mom, somehow it got separated and the hen was already under the hay barn for the night and the little chick was chirping and didn't know where to go. It was dark so I had to go and get a light, crawl around in the dirt and find the hen and then convince the chick and hen that they belonged together.


Glad to know Zorra isn't the only hen that can't count. She did better with the 2015's she raised form about 4 days old than with the 2017's that self raised for 3 weeks before she decided to mother them. I guess they were more independent and willing to wander away with 1 or 2 of their mates. Don't know how often I asked: "Zorra, where are the rest of your chicks?". She never answered nor did she go looking for them.


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## babsbag

I had a broody about a month ago and I caught her and put her in my grow out pen so they would all stay safe. Not sure what to do with this group, not sure that they would share the pen very well. I have 10 chicks coming from a feed store on Friday so I thought about taking them from the hen and combining them with the new ones. IDK.


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## Mike CHS

I remember that Little Red Hen book and that post had me rolling but now I see you that way too.


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## CntryBoy777

I thought everybody our age had read that book....many times....but, I guess not....
How old are the chicks with the broody hen?


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## babsbag

The new mama...I would say 3 days. The oldest one...about 3 weeks.  

I have got to find that book.


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## babsbag

I just put a bid on it on eBay.


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## CntryBoy777

I wouldn't think it would be a problem, but if ya have some hardware cloth ya could cut a piece to separate the groups in the same brooder, box, or tote...whatever ya are using...but, I'd try it and keep an eye out for bullying....bet they are little Cuties!!....


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## BoboFarm

I read The Little Red Hen to my kids all the time. My daughter loves it  I have the book from when I was a kid. It's from a set of books from the Mother Goose that reads the story out loud from a tape you put in under her wing. It brings back memories


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## babsbag

@CntryBoy777  They are always cute when they are with their mama.


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## babsbag

@BoboFarm I remember that Mother Goose. I didn't own one but I had a store that resold kid's clothes and toys and we had a few of those in our store. Teddy Ruxpin too.


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## BoboFarm

@babsbag My friend had Teddy Ruxpin but I did love Mother Goose. I'd listen to The Little Red Hen over and over. It was one of my favorites.


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## CntryBoy777

We had the little Golden book of the story. I remember it as early as 4 that would've been in '62....


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## misfitmorgan

We had little golden books too.

My favorites were "Three Little Kittens" and "Four Puppies", those were the 2 my Grandma always read us before bedtime when we stayed at her house...even when we were plenty old enough to read them ourselves. I used to have those actual books she read me but i lost them some place in all my many moves.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I just put a bid on it on eBay.


No need to buy it unless you have a desire to read it repeatedly. You can read it online for free


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## greybeard

I remember those books from back in the day too. There were lots of them. 
I remember the Dick, Spot and Jane books too and wondered at the time why no one made one more fitting to the times.


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## Bruce

Now THERE is a cheerful children's story!


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## babsbag

Emergency preparedness at its best. 

@Bruce, I looked online and did not see it anywhere but the eBay bid is a whole $2.00 including shipping so it won't break me either way.

We had a bunch of little Golden books in the house,( I do remember "The 3 Little Kittens) and the Dick and Jane books. I remember learning to read those books when I was about 5 but I probably had it memorized more than actually reading it. I know I had Dr. Seuss's "Hop on Pop" book memorized.  I most likely read the Little Red Hen to my kids too and just don't remember it, my Mom bought them a set of about 50 books when they were small. We did a lot of reading.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Now THERE is a cheerful children's story!



It was a cheerful era Bruce. WW2 and Korea were over and the economy was booming. (so were the sonic booms and Khrushchev's shoe banging) 
What could possibly go wrong?


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## Bruce

greybeard said:


> It was a cheerful era Bruce. WW2 and Korea were over and the economy was booming. (so were the sonic booms and Khrushchev's shoe banging)
> What could possibly go wrong?


Yeah, you are right not much could go wrong 
I remember the "duck and cover" drills at school. Too young at the time to understand what a farce that was. If a nuke is coming your way you just kiss your a$$ goodby.


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## babsbag

I don't want to be here after the nuke anyways.


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## Mike CHS

babsbag said:


> I don't want to be here after the nuke anyways.



I have always felt that way.  I had a home years ago just outside Memphis that had a full blown bomb shelter built in the 50's and still had all of the 40 year old supplies inside.


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## greybeard

> babsbag said: ↑
> I don't want to be here after the nuke anyways.





Mike CHS said:


> I have always felt that way.  I had a home years ago just outside Memphis that had a full blown bomb shelter built in the 50's and still had all of the 40 year old supplies inside.



I suppose I'm a bit different. I don't care much for 'easy' or the mundane that our lives usually are. I've always felt adversity should be embraced as well as success and even tho there would be horrendous trouble about, and the alpha and beta would probably eventually get me, just knowing I survived the gamma would be exhilarating. Death, will come to each of us no matter what, but I have no desire to see it take me easily or one moment quicker than it does the last person standing.


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## CntryBoy777

When we lived in Florida we were 65miles...as the crow flies from Cape Canaveral....I told Joyce that if we were ever bombed we'd be 10,000 degrees in a matter of seconds so we didn't have to worry about fallout....
Ever since I was a kid I have faced death at the door on several occassions and I ain't scared of fearful of it. It is my belief that when the timer dings it don't matter what ya do, or what another may try to do...it is done. Contrary to popular beliefs there is never a life that is "Saved" only intended intervention. Ya can shorten it by suicide, but nobody can extend or change what is already planned.
Talking about those Dick, Jane, and Spot books....back when I was in my mid 20s and drinking...my 1st wife and I were playing cards with her sister and her friend, when somehow one of those books was found and we began to read thru it....we began to laugh and roll on the floor and wondered just how the teacher could keep such a straight face while it was being read aloud in class....of course there is a big difference when ya are 5,6, and 7 and in your 20s in the way ya see the world.....


----------



## babsbag

I had a friend that was afraid to fly and we lived near an Air Force base. We had a lot of very low flying c-5s going over our houses at all hours.  I used to teasingly tell her that if it was her time it didn't matter if she was on the plane or under the plane...if it was her time, it was her time. 

That being the case, I just don't want to be around to see the destruction and total annihilation of all things I care about. I'm not afraid to go so take me with it. 

I am still the highest bidder on the book. 

Are they any  IP POE cameras and POE for non IP camera pros out there? I'm stumped.


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## greybeard

babsbag said:


> That being the case, I just don't want to be around to see the destruction and total annihilation of all things I care about. I'm not afraid to go so take me with it.



All the things we care about, will one day crumble to dust and be replaced by other things that others have built. So it is and always has been in all civilizations. I don't at all agree with or live by the "He who dies with the most toys...wins" adage. The place I'm on now will one day (and it won't be too many years) be covered in residential buildings, even tho it is flood prone. My death will not prevent it and whether I see it happen or not is irrelevant..it's still going to happen. This very place may one day be swept away in an even worse flood and I'm cognizant of it and if it's to happen, I'd want to be here to witness such an event. 

But, the truth is, the things we imagine are almost always much worse than the realities. I'm reminded of a couple of lines from some 'b' grade movies I have on dvd.
"How many of you are still working here?"
Just the 3 of us now since the attacks began.
"Why did you stay..aren't you scared?"
Sure I'm scared but I'm also fascinated...[shrug]..fascinated always wins.

and:
"You never told us what you saw Juan"
I saw nothing, but the *nothing* I saw was worse than anything I have ever seen.

For almost all of us, everything we have done and worked for will be gone, as will we every one, and the world will little care nor long remember we were ever even here...so...why should we?


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I don't want to be here after the nuke anyways.


Good point. Not sure how much danger we are in here. The SAC base over in Plattsburgh was shut down in 1995. We do have a National Air Guard base at the Burlington Airport (which is in South Burlington) though, they are scheduled to get the F-35's ... if they ever get built. Don't know that the DPRK would waste anything on that though, there are more "interesting" targets.


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## greybeard

Bruce said:


> Good point. Not sure how much danger we are in here. The SAC base over in Plattsburgh was shut down in 1995. We do have a National Air Guard base at the Burlington Airport (which is in South Burlington) though, they are scheduled to get the F-35's ... if they ever get built. Don't know that the DPRK would waste anything on that though, there are more "interesting" targets.


The F-35As are being built and the USAF has at least 2 operating squadrons. One is a training squadron, the other 34th fighter in Utah is a combat ready squadron that has already deployed with their aircraft to Japan.
https://thediplomat.com/2017/11/us-...lth-fighters-in-japan-to-counter-north-korea/

USMC has at least one squadron of combat operational F-35B in Iwakuni Japan ..VMFA121. Been there for nearly a year now I think.

Israel has one operational squadron of what they designate a F-35I and they seem pretty pleased with them.

Air Nat Guard units will be a while down the pipeline, probably after some of the foreign sales are complete and the rest of the USAF/USN/ and USMC squadrons are up to complement.

I have serious doubts that NK could put an icmb on target anywhere in WestPac, much less all the way across the Pacific to Vt.


----------



## Bruce

greybeard said:


> I have serious doubts that NK could put an icmb on target anywhere in WestPac, much less all the way across the Pacific to Vt.


I agree, lots of bluster coming from the leaders of some countries.


----------



## babsbag

I hope you are right. 

The first doe I saw bred will be at day 150 on 2/4, she is a mini Alpine, so the doe game is beginning.  To be quite honest I expected a few other does to go before her. I still have my mystery 7 out there and a few more that I thought were going be due the end of April that are as big as a house. I am suspecting that I had a few does this year that had signs that they were in heat when they were already bred. I have written in my notes that they were in heat, exposed to a buck, and I never saw the deed. Well someone did "the deed" before I thought are they are carrying an army. No way are they going another 3 months. 

The cameras are not ready yet. I have cable on order, should be here soon and also some Power over Ethernet adapters for two cameras are on order. As soon as those get here I can finish this. I have 4 of the 6 cameras mounted and the cables made and run. Almost there. 

Another inspection on Wed.  Should be the last one for awhile. The lab should be approved that day as well as the processing plant. I am redoing the floor in the milking barn this week or next, waiting on epoxy to get here. I hate redoing things but sometimes you learn by mistakes...at least I do. I have some touch ups to do in the milk house too. Epoxy is great, until it isn't. 

Alondra is supposed to be bred and until yesterday I would have said that she is not. I have changed my mind as she is developing her mammary glands. Pups are due March 2.  And until just a few minutes ago I would have said that pups are due Feb 16...oops. I know it is 63 days, which I also know is 9 weeks. But for some reason my brain was thinking 7 weeks...9 x 7 = 63 and I was fixated on the 7. Good, this makes me feel better that she has another month to grow some pups and not 2 weeks. Bad as the kidding stalls are going to be very busy in March. Oh well, nothing like a cozy barn to keep everyone warm.


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## babsbag

Calling all grammar pros. Which is correct?  To "D" or not to "D"....that is the question.   


The kids are hand raised so they are easier to handle and a *welcome* addition to the herd.

The kids are hand raised so they are easier to handle and a *welcomed *addition to the herd.


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## Wehner Homestead

I have to admit when stumped I change the wording to eliminate the issue. 

Example: agreeable, favorable, desirable


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## CntryBoy777

Welcomed....but, there should be an "are" between the "and"....and "a".....and are a welcomed addition to the herd....


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## TAH

CntryBoy777 said:


> Welcomed....but, there should be an "are" between the "and"....and "a".....and are a welcomed addition to the herd....


I caught it, I noticed.

I can now prove to mom I am learning even when it comes to homework I am a bit of a pain.


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## babsbag

@Wehner Homestead  I do that too, but it is usually if I am not entirely sure of the meaning of a word or how I am using it.  

I am usually really really good with grammar, it is my pet peeve in some ways so this just stumped me. I took a grammar class in high school, one of the most useful classes I have ever taken. 

So now that I have inserted the "are" it makes me question something else.  Do I need to insert THAT?

The kids are hand raised so *"that" *they are easier to handle and are a welcomed addition to the herd.


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## Wehner Homestead

I used to be awesome at grammar but my memory hasn’t been as good since the sleep deprivation secondary to my youngest monkey and all of her medical issues. 

I *think* the sentence sounds better with “that.” I read and reread it both ways...

I’m interested to see what @CntryBoy777 says!


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## CntryBoy777

It really could read either way, but if ya remove the "that" then I would insert a comma between "raised" and "so"....there are 2 different actions being contained in the one sentence and a pause allows for a clearer separation and understanding of those 2 linked actions.....omg...I sound like a dang teacher....


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## OneFineAcre

Wehner Homestead said:


> I have to admit when stumped I change the wording to eliminate the issue.
> 
> Example: agreeable, favorable, desirable



me too.


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## babsbag

@CntryBoy777   My sister is a retired teacher and when I read your post I thought it sounded just like her.   But I do believe that you are correct. I put the "that" in the sentence.


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## babsbag

Since the BYH community is my best critic and my best supporter I will show you the brochure I am working on. It is similar to the last one I did but this one is a tri-fold so I can put it in those brochure holders more readily. I have the back pages that are blank for now but I can fill them up later. 

Off to do an inspection. Wish me luck


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## Bruce

Regarding the "that" 
I think it depends on what you are trying to convey.

They are hand raised with the intention of making them easier to handle? Put in the "that".
They are easier to handle because they were hand raised? No "that".
I think.


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## CntryBoy777

It looks good to me and should be received very well....
 with the inspection!!


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## Bayleaf Meadows

I think I would write 
"small, family-owned, Grade ‘A’ goat dairy"


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## Bruce

Good point @Bayleaf Meadows, the family may be small but I don't think that is what @babsbag is trying to tell the customers. 

And (sorry @CntryBoy777) I have to disagree on the "," between "raised" and "so". The "sentence" starting with "so" couldn't stand on its own thus it needs to be connected to the first part.


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## Bruce

BTW, now that we've seen the brochure, we can all swing by the dairy unannounced, we have the address


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## babsbag

@Bayleaf Meadows  Yep, it is a small family too.   But good point and I did change it.
And @Bruce   To be quite honest I was wondering about the address and PETA types. I have to have it on all of the labels which doesn't thrill me one bit but it is the law. Maybe I will just put the city on the flyers.

The inspection was ok but still not done.  But I don't have any goats in milk so I'm good. She has to come back in a few weeks to test my thermometers for the lab against an NIST reference thermometer.  My reference thermometer doesn't go high enough...I need 56° and mine goes to 52°. The inspector has to come and check my pasteurizer thermometers next month so she will do the lab thermometers at the same time. It only has to be done once a year so I am not going to go and buy another thermometer for $150 + just to run these checks.  The other thing I need to do is install the washing machine for the cheese cloth. I have the washer, just need to make room for it and get in installed.


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## Southern by choice

_Jumping the Moon Dairy is a small family owned Grade ‘A’ goat dairy in Northern CA *that* 50 Alpine and La Mancha goats call home._

I think "that" should be "where". I will reconstruct the sentence and double check. 

_Mango’s French Onion_

Although it is clear with all the others that there is a "goat name" preceding the product, at first glance it could be interpreted as MANGO's FRENCH ONION as in French onion with Mango 

Both of those are really not a big deal.

_The kids are hand raised so *"that" *they are easier to handle and are a welcomed addition to the herd._

NO, you do not need "that".

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok... 

Not being a jerk but I am trying to look at this through fresh eyes.... removing all personal knowledge of your farm and animals.
I know you care well for your animals, I know you like things clean, I know you milk clean. _Because I know you. _
Your brochure will be going out as advertisement and for others to get to know you. From that perspective visual impressions/representations are powerful.

Picture one- there is a pile of poop or something that could be viewed as poop right where the baby kid is standing.

All of us know goats poop, and they do it wherever whenever they want... but you don't want people thinking your baby goats are standing in poop. When we have farms we are aware of farms and farmstuff... people that are buying your product don't have goats or they wouldn't need to buy it from you. 

Picture #2- same thing

Picture #3  Love the pink CLEAN stanchions! BUT this is a terrible pic. 
Heres why-
Hooves- very visible and overgrown
condition- very lean.... WE know that there is that period of time after kidding that goats look their worst and then they bounce back. WE know what a hard working dairy goat looks like. Optimal pic is where they are not showing that spine or sunken (3-6week after kidding) look. You want them when they are in there natural good condition.

You will be dealing with mainly people who know nothing about goats. 

Both of these pics are bad but one is clearly worse


  
first pic is at least on spent hay- no poop.... 2nd pic is after we had 10" snow then rain... there is mud and grass is dormant... but all of you know we just had nasty weather so I was ok putting that pic here on BYH. I wouldn't put it in a brochure.

   
1st pic good- 2nd pic you can't see that he is standing under a huge tree... it looks messy... 3 rd pic same lil buckling


Yes, the nutso's will climb out of the wood work... When I read milked 7 days a week 10 months out of the year... I think hmmmm how would the crazies read that?
Reality is, you will put your goats first, some that have had problem you don't push them or tax them. I think that is important.
Hand raised- very open for interpretation. Hand raised can mean socialized with human contact, can still mean they are dam raised, or could mean bottle raised.

Like I said- not being a jerk.   The brochure is great in itself, I do think changing a few things will be beneficial.
From the very first day you said you had a crazy idea... and I knew by my spirit that it was "right" I have joyfully been with you in prayer and friendship.
Lucky you!


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## Bruce

I don't agree with "where 50 Alpine and La Mancha goats call home". 
"where call home"?? I think "that call home" is better. Where would go with "live".


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## Southern by choice

Bruce said:


> I don't agree with "where 50 Alpine and La Mancha goats call home".
> "where call home"?? I think "that call home" is better. Where would go with "live".



I didn't lay out the construction but 

Jumping the Moon Dairy is a place
Northern Ca is a place
Home is a place

It answers the question "WHERE"

Where is @Pearce Pastures  when we need her?


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## babsbag

When you figure it all out let me know.   I cleaned up picture one (wish it was a easy to clean a stall). I cleaned up pic two the best I can and I changed picture number three. 

As far as hand raising they will have to guess what that means.


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## Latestarter

Just because you asked and because I can... I would change the product order just a bit and put the soap and lotion under the last cheese entry since they are also goat milk products where eggs and honey aren't. I would then put a sub-header "Seasonal" then eggs, honey and the kids. If there isn't enough room you could always do the cheese on one line; Fresh Chevre & Feta cheeses (you have them detailed out on the center fold).

You're almost there! amazing... 

OK, (biting tongue)  my 2 cents worth... "The kids are hand raised so they are easier to handle, and are always a welcomed addition to the herd."


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## babsbag

The next version.


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## Latestarter

There needs to be a comma after easier to handle as that has nothing to do with the 2nd part about being welcomed...


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## Southern by choice

Love the pics! 

The baby Alpine... is that a mini? Gorgeous pic!

And Moonpie- that is Moonpie right? She is the one that started it all isn't she?


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## OneFineAcre

I'm not much at marketing
If you have a question on accounting or finance that's more my lane


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## BoboFarm

Here are some suggestions from a newbie...

Are you going to put prices for lotion, soap, honey and kids since you have it for milk, eggs and cheese?

Why is "gently" in quotes in your description vs the product list?

Here's a language suggestion for your description:

Jumping the Moon Dairy is a small, family-owned, Grade A goat dairy in Northern California that is home to Alpine and La Mancha goats as well as chickens and bees. Our does are milked daily and are  given a break for a couple of months prior to having kids again. The kids are a welcomed addition to the herd. They are hand raised, which helps develop trust and makes them easier to handle.

I think the pictures are perfect and show happy looking goats. Since your brochure cover is mostly blue you may want to incorporate the blue in the rest of the brochure to be consistent. Again, these are just suggestions. I hope they're not to nit-picky


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## OneFineAcre

For that matter why put anything about the frequency you milk and how long ?


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## Wehner Homestead

I like Bobo’s way of rewriting the paragraph. 

I can’t get the brochure to open on my phone so I can’t add anything else. I do hope all goes well for you though!


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## Southern by choice

OneFineAcre said:


> For that matter why put anything about the frequency you milk and how long ?


That's what I asked.


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## farmerjan

I have to disagree with the "D" part.  Are a welcome addition as opposed to are a welcomed.....  Are implies current situation and the "d" implies that it is past tense.  If you take the "a" out then it makes "welcomed" a proper tense. The "a" implies singular but taking it out implies that it is plural which the "d" is more correct.  Then I would make additions instead of addition.
The kids are a welcome addition to the herd.
The kids are welcomed additions to the herd.

I am going to go to my work computer to see if I can get the brochure as my home computer is too old to do all the opening of files etc..


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## Hubbyfarmer

new to group not sure how it work


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## babsbag

To "D" or not to "D" is still the question.  I love it.

@Southern by choice  Yes, that is a mini Alpine, and yes that is Moonpie.

@BoboFarm  You do write well, I like it.  I could do prices on all but the kids. Kids are tricky, too many combinations.   And gently is in quotes as it is technically "low-temperature" but that sounds too technical to me.  I have my brochure cover logo in pink...don't tempt me. Pink is my color as I am a total tomboy so pink just fits and I use it often. My DH might pitch a fit if I changed my logo to pink. I'll have to ask him.

@OneFineAcre the reason is because I want my future customers to be aware that there will most likely be no bottled milk for 2 months out of the year. It was suggested to me that most people accept and appreciate once they know that it is for the benefit of the doe.  I could try and stagger breeding and that fine stuff but I honestly need the two months down to rest and regroup and do repairs and upgrades.


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## babsbag

Third time is a charm.  Glad I didn't ask for input on my labels. 

The more I look at the logo the more I really like the aqua logo.


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## BoboFarm

I like the aqua logo too 

Maybe you could put "Please contact for pricing" for the kids. If you have a set price for the soap, lotion and honey I think you should state pricing for those.


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## babsbag

I did, it's on the new file I uploaded. I also "borrowed (stole) some of your writing.  I love BYH, I can always count on a few good people to keep me on my toes.


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## Wehner Homestead

I’m partial to the black logo


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## Goat Whisperer

It's looking great Babs! 

One thing though- are you technically allowed to call your eggs "fresh"?
I ask this because we use to do a lot with the poultry. We would sell 29 dozen a week (Had to stay under 30 or else you would need to be licensed) We were not legally allowed to label or call our eggs "fresh" because they were not graded. That was NC's law, CA might be different but thought I'd mention it. 

We would write the collection date, our clients really appreciated knowing how "fresh" the eggs really were.


----------



## Devonviolet

I've been catching up on your progress, Babs.  LOVE the latest brochure!  You've done a great job of tweeking it, based on excellent suggestions, from your fellow BYH'ders.

@Southern by choice gave you some great info on the photos!  I loved the fact that you included a photo of some, of your girls, on the milk stand. However, something about it made me uncomfortable. At first I wasn't sure why.  But then, thinking about SBC's thoughts on the body condition, and thinking about pics I've seen, of cows being milked, I think since goats are smaller (thinner) and their utters aren't as full, it makes for a cluttered, unimpressive photo.  So, I wonder if people would compare goats (on the stand) to cows being milked, and think cow's milk is better.  So, that being said, I'm glad you replaced that photo with a great looking photo of a nice, plump, healthy looking doe.  I like your wording under that doe as well. And that smiling little LaMancha kid just warms my heart!  

Of your three logos, I like the turquoise one the best also.


----------



## Latestarter




----------



## Bruce

Yay for no pink background! It hurt my eyes, too bright.



Goat Whisperer said:


> We would write the collection date, our clients really appreciated knowing how "fresh" the eggs really were.


I do that too. The "fresh" eggs in the grocery store only have a "best by" date. Doesn't tell you squat about how fresh, or not, they are. And around Easter there are a TON of eggs, we all know you can't just tell the chickens to crank out a bazillion eggs for that one day so some of them are likely pretty old (but still legal). Of course older isn't necessarily bad for eggs you are going to boil and hope to peel with the egg still intact.

I'm taking half a dozen to my next door neighbors at my prior home. 5 were laid today, 1 yesterday. They claim my girls lay the best eggs, better even than those from the store that are labeled "pasture raised". They haven't seen a really good egg  since mid Dec but all of a sudden, with the increasing light, the girls are getting back to work.


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## babsbag

In CA I have to be licensed for any egg sales if I advertise. The eggs have to graded and labeled accordingly. I have to have the date they were packaged (not collected) on the carton and no use by date.  Grading is suppose to mean candling and if I was selling in a store I would do that, but for what I am doing I will weigh them and that is the best they will get. 

The logos...my plan is to use them all eventually. I would like to do some t-shirts or shopping bags with the different colors and give people a choice. I have always done the dark blue for cards and such, that is what is on my banner I had made, but I do like the aqua a lot. 

My labels for milk are basically a white logo with a colored frame around it, same with the cheese. Each variety of cheese will be a different color. These have all been approved so no changes allowed.


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## Latestarter

They look great to me.


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## Devonviolet

OOOOH!!!!      LOVE the labels!!!      Way cool!!!


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## babsbag

Thanks, I am happy with the labels. The person that approves them said that I did a better job on my label design and getting all the info in the correct places and correct size than a lot of pros do; she was pretty impressed.  That gave me a big smile.

My doe, Hilda the Witch, is at day 147. She is a mini so any day is possible but because we have a love hate relationship (mostly hate) she will go to day 155 or beyond. I am not even looking or worrying as she would enjoy that way too much.


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## Wehner Homestead

Watch her kid tonight just to throw you off!!


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## babsbag

The thing is I am hoping she waits about another month...not happening I know. I have the floor in my milking barn torn apart right now getting it ready for a new coat of epoxy and this doe will hate being milked by hand.


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## Wehner Homestead




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## farmerjan

Labels are nice.  Like the different colors for the different flavors.  I like the blue or the black in the logo;  the black is a little "sharper" and the blue is "prettier".  Either will do you proud.  
As for being without fresh milk for approx 2 months;  why not say you are a seasonal dairy, with the does having a winter break before they kid again....?


----------



## Baymule

misfitmorgan said:


> I found this which may or may not be helpful. Its alsmost all the way to the bottom of the page. Shows a jumpgate with measurements.
> 
> http://www.cornerstoneacresfarm.com/greatpyrenees.htm
> 
> 
> 
> i'm sure you will get the gate figured out and get the cameras up in no time. It is raining here today too and yesterday a bit.


Thanks for this! I plan on incorporating this into some of my pastures.


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## babsbag

Your sheep will probably do great with them. I have a couple of small goats that hop right through them but I will be making a change on them yet again. I notice that Francis rubs his back on the top of the triangle, I am thinking of trying one of them with no top bar and since this in on stock panel it will easily be stiff enough. Also, I think that the "v" is important to keep my goats out and mine is too wide so I am going to narrow it down tomorrow. It is only the small goats that go through it, the big ones don't even try.  So here comes modification number 7.


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Thanks for this! I plan on incorporating this into some of my pastures.


I look forward to seeing how your's works.  Maybe that is something we can use, once we get the fencing finished, in the first phase of our fencing project.


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> I think that the "v" is important to keep my goats out and mine is too wide so I am going to narrow it down tomorrow. It is only the small goats that go through it, the big ones don't even try. So here comes modification number 7.


I would love to see photos of your revised jump gate.


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## babsbag

As soon as I have it figured out. Right now I keep adding boards and changing things...good thing I build everything with screws.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> Thanks for this! I plan on incorporating this into some of my pastures.



Always glad to help! If Bab's wouldnt have mentioned it i never would have knew they existed.



babsbag said:


> Your sheep will probably do great with them. I have a couple of small goats that hop right through them but I will be making a change on them yet again. I notice that Francis rubs his back on the top of the triangle, I am thinking of trying one of them with no top bar and since this in on stock panel it will easily be stiff enough. Also, I think that the "v" is important to keep my goats out and mine is too wide so I am going to narrow it down tomorrow. It is only the small goats that go through it, the big ones don't even try.  So here comes modification number 7.



I'm sure you will get it widdled down to something that works for you Bab's, your a smart cookie!


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> As soon as I have it figured out. Right now I keep adding boards and changing things...good thing I build everything with screws.


    We use screws for building too.  It makes it so much easier to reconfigure and repurpose!!!


----------



## babsbag

Except for those dang screws that get embedded deep and won't come out. They will let you separate the two boards but the screw stays in the top one. That is maddening. 

@misfitmorgan Thanks for the vote of confidence, problem is that my goats are smart too. If I was really smart I wouldn't own goats.


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## Bruce

Use a drill with a clutch so you don't bury the screws.


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## babsbag

Nah, I like my Makita impact driver.   But it is a good idea and I do have one of those.


----------



## Devonviolet

Yup! We use a drill with a clutch. Works great!


----------



## babsbag

farmerjan said:


> Labels are nice.  Like the different colors for the different flavors.  I like the blue or the black in the logo;  the black is a little "sharper" and the blue is "prettier".  Either will do you proud.
> As for being without fresh milk for approx 2 months;  why not say you are a seasonal dairy, with the does having a winter break before they kid again....?




 How about this:

_Jumping the Moon is a seasonal dairy. The goats are milked daily most of the year but they are given a well deserved vacation for a few months in the winter before having their kids._


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> _Jumping the Moon is a seasonal dairy. The goats are milked daily most of the year but they are given a well deserved vacation for a few months in the winter before having their kids._


I LIKE IT!!!  That's perfect!!!  

Tiny, grammatical suggestion.  Put a comma after year and after vacation.  ". . . year, but they are given a well deserved vacation, . . ." is a propositional phrase, that should be set off with commas.  Same with ". . . vacation, for a few months during Winter,"


----------



## Bruce

I like that @babsbag. Tells people you aren't beating your animals up and about when they will be unable to get the milk they are going to get addicted to.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> Except for those dang screws that get embedded deep and won't come out. They will let you separate the two boards but the screw stays in the top one. That is maddening.
> 
> @misfitmorgan Thanks for the vote of confidence, problem is that my goats are smart too. If I was really smart I wouldn't own goats.



Anytime Babs.....to be fair though if any of us were that smart we wouldnt own any livestock and would all be vacationing on some sunny beach atm.



babsbag said:


> How about this:
> 
> _Jumping the Moon is a seasonal dairy. The goats are milked daily most of the year but they are given a well deserved vacation for a few months in the winter before having their kids._



I like it, the "they" bother me but thats probly my dyslexia.
_Jumping the Moon is a seasonal dairy. The goats are milked daily most of the year but are given a well deserved vacation for a few months in the winter before having their kids._
Hurts me head less 
The statement itself is a really good one i think though. I have a terrible time with "slogan/label" type things....yet i do websites for other people, go figure!


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## Bruce

I can see saving a little ink by eliminating the "they". Seems unnecessary.


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## farmerjan

Replace the "but are given" with "THEN are given"  Capitals to show where to take out "but" and put in then....  Doesn't sound like you are making an excuse...just stating a fact  of the goats life....


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## babsbag

_Jumping the Moon is a seasonal dairy; the goats are milked daily  for most of the year. Then for a few months in the winter, before having kids again, they are given a well deserved vacation 


    The kids are hand raised which helps to develop trust and a bond with people and makes  them a welcomed addition to the herd. _


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## Devonviolet

That looks really good, Babs!


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## farmerjan

Looks pretty good.  Still don't like the "d" on welcomed, because "makes" is current tense,  but that is just me.  It reads easy.  I like that you can give people an idea that there will be a break in the fresh milk schedule....
P.S.  no sense in telling all the secrets of YOU needing that winter break!!!!!!!


----------



## Baymule

I think you just nailed it.


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## babsbag

By the time I am done with kidding season this year I will need a break for sure...oh, wait, that isn't when I get the break...darn.  I have a doe that is playing me and making me crazy and we have only just begun.  *sigh*

@farmerjan I am still torn with the "d" myself. I have a sister that is an English major and retired school teacher, maybe I will ask for her 2 cents just because I can.


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## misfitmorgan

I'm no english major but i do believe that should be welcome present tense. You also have an extra and...

_The kids are hand raised which helps to develop trust and a bond with people making them a welcome addition to the herd._


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## babsbag

@misfitmorgan  Yes, removing the and was good. Thanks.

Perhaps it is the "raised"...past tense...that is throwing off this sentence. What about this?  Also added a comma after 'kids' and 'people'.

_We hand raise the kids, which helps to develop trust and a bond with people, making them a welcome addition to the herd._


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## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> @misfitmorgan  Yes, removing the and was good. Thanks.
> 
> Perhaps it is the "raised"...past tense...that is throwing off this sentence. What about this?  Also added a comma after 'kids' and 'people'.
> 
> _We hand raise the kids, which helps to develop trust and a bond with people, making them a welcome addition to the herd._


Happy to help 

i like that version the best! I think the past tense was doing it, this newest version reads the best so far.

_Jumping the Moon is a seasonal dairy; the goats are milked daily for most of the year. Then for a few months in the winter, before having kids again, they are given a well deserved vacation.

We hand raise the kids, which helps to develop trust and a bond with people, making them a welcome addition to the herd.
_
You may also want to make the first part more present tense to, something like this maybe.
_
 Jumping the Moon is a seasonal dairy; we milk our goats daily for most of the year. For a few months in the winter, before having kids again, they are given a well deserved vacation.
_
Read all together, my brain doesnt see any hard stops(the again catches me but dyslexia i think) so it reads smoothly.
_
 Jumping the Moon is a seasonal dairy; we milk our goats daily for most of the year. For a few months in the winter, before having kids again, they are given a well deserved vacation.

We hand raise the kids, which helps to develop trust and a bond with people, making them a welcome addition to the herd._


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## Bruce

I like it @misfitmorgan. I think though subtle, present tense does read "more positive" for some reason. 

Hmmm, I wonder if maybe the "for" in "daily for most of the year", is unnecessary.


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## farmerjan

I like the "present tense" of it.  I think that is what was getting to me also, mixing the past tense and the present tense.  This sounds positive, and professional, yet homey and inviting.  I am glad the term seasonal works.  I knew that the seasonal cow dairy term would translate to goats.


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## CntryBoy777

I really, really am sorry for this Babs, but check with your sister...because I say the "d" should still be on welcome. The reason is the future perfect tense of the verb welcome...is welcomeD....the kids are not the reference for the verb, but the herd is....so when the kids "Join" the herd they are welcomed by those of the herd and are not welcoming themselves to the herd. I believe your DS will clear it up and I will be interested in the outcome. It all sounds really great to me and am so Excited for ya and the trickle of milk going in the bottles and the shelves filling with product....and then disappearing so more can be sold.....


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## frustratedearthmother

Or you could just say the kids will be a WONDERFUL addition to your herd!


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## babsbag

Always the peace maker.


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## babsbag

@CntryBoy777  that is definitely more than I remember from high school grammar class. I will let you know when my sister chimes in.


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## misfitmorgan

CntryBoy777 said:


> I really, really am sorry for this Babs, but check with your sister...because I say the "d" should still be on welcome. The reason is the future perfect tense of the verb welcome...is welcomeD....the kids are not the reference for the verb, but the herd is....so when the kids "Join" the herd they are welcomed by those of the herd and are not welcoming themselves to the herd. I believe your DS will clear it up and I will be interested in the outcome. It all sounds really great to me and am so Excited for ya and the trickle of milk going in the bottles and the shelves filling with product....and then disappearing so more can be sold.....



Welcomed is Future Perfect, yes
Welcome is Future
Welcoming is Future Continuous
I believe any can be used in this context though to a layman and average joe using future tense would be easiest on the brain most times. This reminds me of the oxford comma debate.....yes i use the oxford comma.

I also believe the statement ment Bab's was welcoming the kids, not the herd


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## babsbag

I use the Oxford comma too.  

I have not heard from my sister so I am thinking that she and her husband are still wandering around the southwest somewhere. She lives in OR and they like to escape the wet damp winters. They are both very good amateur photographers so they went out on a trip to get some pictures, with no set time of return. That is a lifestyle I can't even imagine. Somehow I am the only sibling that got bit with the critter bug.


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## babsbag

Well, the Internet sure has a lot to say on the subject of welcome or welcomed so we aren't the only ones having this discussion. Welcome is an irregular verb, I am using it as an indicative verb in the future perfect tense, so it would be welcomed. But when I run it through grammar check it doesn't correct it no matter which way I spell it.  If I substitute "they will be" for "making them" it is still welcomed. 

English...gotta love our language. 

I think I will call my sister tonight and see if she is in cell phone range.


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## misfitmorgan

The English language really is so so screwy.

I like it the way it is despite a possible grammatical error....welcomed sounds wrong no matter how many times i try to say it to myself

Hopefully your sister gets you an answer. At the end of the day, it is your dairy and you can have the wording however you like....even despite what us BYH people think it should or shouldnt be.


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## AClark

Welcomed would be how I would use it, welcome sounds like present and past tense, despite welcomed being used potentially as a past tense as well (We welcomed them into our home last week). With that said, I am still a fan of the Oxford comma.
What I did notice was the use of a semi-colon, which the vast majority of people either don't use or use incorrectly, but here it's used correctly, so the the proper term for welcome should be used as well to complement proper grammar.


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## babsbag

My sister says that welcome is describing the word 'addition" and it is used as an adjective in this sentence and that it "should probably" be welcome but doesn't think that anyone will notice. She's a peace keeper too.  

The more I read that more confused I get. I keep trying to change the sentence but it doesn't work...yet.


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## babsbag

AClark said:


> What I did notice was the use of a semi-colon, which the vast majority of people either don't use or use incorrectly, but here it's used correctly, so the the proper term for welcome should be used as well to complement proper grammar.



I do use semicolons where they belong, or at least I try. But I don't see one in the current version on my computer.  Did one of the ones I posted on BYH have a ;  ?


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## Mike CHS

Our language is one of the reasons I decided to join the Navy before college.


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## Bruce

English is a lousy language. Pronounce these words:
mow (the action, not the place you put the hay)
cow
WHY are they not pronounced similarly?

And these:
caught
laughter
?????
Stupid language


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## CntryBoy777

I thought of something while on final rounds tonite....it may work with the word "welcome" with just a slight change in the last part of the sentence. Where it says...._a bond with people, making them a welcome(d) addition to the herd_.....ya could take out the...._making them a_....with "as we welcome them to the herd."......this would subside the issue and still work with everything else that is stated...............


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## Bruce

But is she telling people the kids are handled so they are a "welcome addition" to HER herd, or to a prospective kid BUYER's herd?? I don't guess people would care a whole lot about the ease of adding kids to the dairy's herd.


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## babsbag

@Bruce the words that really get me "goat" are too, to, and two. And then there is bear and bare and they both have multiple meanings. Or read, read, and red. All I can say is that I am glad that I don't have to learn English as my second language; it's hard enough to learn it as my first. 

As to the question about whose herd the kids are to be welcomed to...it could be mine or theirs. In this day of crazies that think that all livestock owners are cruel and that dairies are particularly evil I want to make a point by letting them know that the kids are cherished and cared for in spite of what they think.  So it doesn't matter whose herd, it only matters that they are welcome(d).


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## babsbag

Ok, so this is what the collective brain in my family has come up with.  They all agree that "welcome" is used as an adjective and it is not a verb and therefore not "welcomed". Even if "welcomed" is the way my brain rolls I will concede that "welcome" is correct. Do you know how hard it is to say that my siblings are right? 

This is the last and final revision. It is time to send this to my printer and get 'er done. Thank you all for the critiques, it is nice to know that you all have my back. 

_We hand-raise the kids.  This helps them bond with people and develop trust, and makes them a welcome addition to the herd. _


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## Southern by choice

.


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## babsbag

On a happy note, I have had 5 kids born this week, all does. One set of mini Alpine twins born a few days ago and then tonight triplets. The triplets are 1/4 ND, 3/4 Alpine. The dam had been playing me for days, well, actually months. I have written down that she was in heat 3 times last fall while waiting for Jumanji to heal but it seems that she was just being a brat and was already bred. I have a few like that...unfortunately.  

I have seen a lot of births but this one bothered me a little, there was soooo much blood. I thought for a minute or two that the doe was hemorrhaging but it stopped, but I have never seen this much blood. She is an older doe so she worries me a little (a lot). The last few months she has been limping and having a hard time getting up and down, this week was really bad, I had to help her get up a few times. I may put her on a low dose of Meloxidyl if she isn't walking any better. This might have to be her last freshening too, which is sad as I wanted a Jumanji doeling from her.  She milks like a dream but it is very hard to keep weight on her and her coat takes a beating too. I am going to try and pamper her a little more and see what I can fix.  I am still struggling with what to do with old goats. I can't afford to be a home for old goats.


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## Latestarter

Now that the grammar debate is complete, for those who think our language is bad, trust me, there are much worse. Russian for example has many words with multiple spellings, meanings, etc. and a particular noun might have 10 or more different spellings depending on how its used in a sentence.  And to top all that off, they don't even use our alphabet... they use Cyrillic. Oh, and there are different Cyrillic symbols for a particular letter, depending on how the word is being used as well.


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## misfitmorgan

Woohoo for the printer!!!

Congrats on the new kids. Dealing with old goats is tough, no matter the circumstances.

@Latestarter i definitely wont be trying to learn russian anytime soon....or ever i hope.


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## Baymule

Perhaps you can find pet or small homestead homes for your old does.


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## Wehner Homestead

Yay for sending the brochures to the printer!! I think the statement reads well. 

Congrats on healthy kids! I can’t believe LS didn’t ask for pics, so I will...lol 

I’d think searching for some type of pet home that wants them to clear brush of some type would be best. Disperse them in groups, attempting to keep bonded Does together...I can’t imagine making those choices. I’m pretty sure we will just adjust and keep most of ours unless the right home comes along.


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## babsbag

My oldest doe is Moonpie, the one my logo is modeled after and the one on my brochure...she is no longer bred and will be forever. Her sister, is a year younger and will also remain here. The rest are hard calls.


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## babsbag

I passed the final inspection today. The dairy and creamery are officially done.


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## frustratedearthmother

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!


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## Latestarter

That is FANTASTIC news! Congratulations! Getting stomach butterflies? It's now REAL!   Now GET TO WORK girl!


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## Mike CHS

Your getting started posts have been among my favorites.  A well deserved Congratulations to you.


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## farmerjan

Congratulations.  It has been a long and arduous trip for you and I am very suitably impressed.  Hears to hoping that it will be as big a success as you want and will not overwhelm you but make you happy and proud.


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## Wehner Homestead

That’s wonderful news! Congratulations!!!


----------



## BoboFarm

Congratulations to you!


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## Baymule

Nobody deserves good things more than you. You have moved mountains to get this done. Officially open. That has to make you proud. Now..... hit the ground running!


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## Bruce

Whoopee!!!! Long LONG road. Glad you can shift to "routine" work now.


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## HomeOnTheRange

Wow!  Congrats on getting the past piece finished.


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## misfitmorgan

Congrat's Bab's, so happy for you!!


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## babsbag

Thank you for all the well wishes. It has been a LONG time coming for sure and there were certainly times that I could have walked away from it all. Now I am waiting on kids so I have some goats to milk. 

Alondra had her puppies today, pretty sure that she is done. The total is 5, 4 boys and a girl.  Of course she waited for the weird water to fall from the sky before having them. Figures, but at least it isn't 22° like last week.


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## Latestarter

Congrats on the pups!


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## misfitmorgan

Congrats on the new additions and hopefully those goats start dropping kids soon.


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## Mini Horses

Kids, pups & FINAL approval --- what a great week!!!!   I'd buy a lottery ticket If I were you  

HUGE CONGRATULATIONS.


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## Baymule

Congrats on the puppies! You KNOW we want pictures!!!


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## frustratedearthmother

Yay puppies!  I second the motion for pics!


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## Wehner Homestead

Wonderful news!!!


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## babsbag

Update that total to 7 pups but still only one girl. Why do I have dogs that take FOREVER to whelp? I had a Dalmatian that took 24 hours. Sigueme took over 14 hours and Alondra probably longer. At midnight she had 6 pups, at 8:00 AM she had 7.  I thought she was done at 2 pups, then again at 5 pups. I haven't been to the barn in a few hours, maybe there is more. 

Pictures have  a reddish hue due to the heat lamp.  And yes, she has that pup in her mouth, she was moving them. I think that she was too warm under the lamp. I moved the lamp a little ways to the side and she went back with them.  The winds here today are crazy. Thunderstorms and downpours and then sun, but the wind is relentless.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh my goodness!  How stinkin' cute are they?  I want to smooch them and smell puppy breath!


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## Hens and Roos

Congrats on the dairy and the pups!!


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## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Congrats on the pups!


Did you put in your bid for the one girl?


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## babsbag

I was a little concerned about Alondra and motherhood since she was way over the top in protecting her space under the feeder or trailer where she thought she should whelp. She would growl at any other dog that got near her. I was expecting a monster after the pups were born but she is doing really well. Of course she lets me check them over and love on them and move them but she is not really that bad with the other dogs. She does give a little warning growl but she doesn't hit the fence in an all out attack like I was expecting. Of course Sigueme wants to take them all...once a mama, always a mama. She stays very close to the pen and gets very concerned if one whimpers too loudly.  I have no doubt that she would adopt them all.


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## OneFineAcre

Congrats on all the good news.  Final inspection, kids, and pups.
Things are looking good.


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## Wehner Homestead

The pups are precious!! Congratulations!!


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## Baymule

Nice litter of puppies. Are you keeping any?


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## misfitmorgan

The pups are so stinking cute!! I esp like that all white one for some reason.


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## Wehner Homestead

misfitmorgan said:


> The pups are so stinking cute!! I esp like that all white one for some reason.



You need it!


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## misfitmorgan

Wehner Homestead said:


> You need it!



Another dog, esp a puppy is the last time i need atm.


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## babsbag

Jump gates are for jumping through...by large dogs and small goats.   Tomorrow the  mini Alpine buck is going to go live with the big boys. That'll teach him.


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## Baymule

Can you provide details on your jump gates? I want to build a couple of them.


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## misfitmorgan

I wanna know how the mini alpine figured out how to use the jump gate and how a goats fat tummy doesnt get stuck in it.


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## babsbag

I raised the gates yesterday and did more of a 'V' at the bottom and it stopped him for about 10 seconds while he studied it. He put his front feet through and decided it was too high to "crawl" through so he backed up and simply jumped right through it, no problem. My young Alpine buck can do it too but he is getting too big so it won't be long. The ND doesn't do it as he is too short and the LM is too fat. It works great for big goats.

I am going to check the dimensions and use the ones on the website I found and try one more time. My wood scraps are getting pretty ratty from all the screws I have put in and out, I may get some new 2x4's and start over.


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## babsbag

Calling any and all finish carpenters.  It isn't often that I get stumped but I need to finish a project that has been bugging me for 9 years. When we bought the house we installed our own laminate flooring and baseboards and I have this one spot to finish. I have sidelights next to my door. How do I finish this mess?




They provided me with a window sill which I can use, but not crazy about it. I think that I need to take the baseboard off and cut it so that it "dives in" to the edge of the window and doesn't just end straight like that. Here is the window sill, I would of course cut it fit, sand and repair or replace. It does hide the area below the window. Any other options?


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## Latestarter

I would cut the baseboard vertically at a 45° angle so it would end flush at the start of the window casing. You can do a simple straight shot of the same thickness board under the window to meet up with a mirror image piece of molding on the other side. (45° angle to flush at window casing edge) Then cut the "T" portion of the existing (shown) sill at a point that it is level with the outside edge of the baseboard so the seam can't be seen. Use putty or caulk to seal all edges/seams then paint.


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## Bruce

Typically one would cut the baseboard at a 45° angle and cut another small piece to "round the corner" kind of like this:




If you made the baseboard yourself, you would have the cutter and could get the same look by cutting the end of the board the same as the face. That is how I did the "aprons" under the window sills at my prior house. BTW, much as you'll see descriptions of mitering inside corners, you shouldn't do it, they should be coped instead.

I would do as @Latestarter said and cut the T shaped piece flush with the front of the baseboard. Fortunately you don't have any moulding cuts at that level. DON'T just cut it straight across, the walls may not be perfectly in line. Get a piece if baseboard on the other side and use a straight edge to draw the line from wall to wall across the board. If you are lucky you can just run it straight against the fence on the table saw but I wouldn't bet on it. In fact, the edge against the window may not even be parallel with the inside wall.

Because I am OCD fussy about things, I would cut both the "sill" and the piece that will run under it at a 45°so it is a miter joint, not a butt joint 3/4" down. But you could do the butt joint if you are painting, as he said, you can fill any gap and the paint will hide the joint. I tend to work with hardwoods and I absolutely REFUSE to paint it.


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## babsbag

This is how the baseboard is factory finished in places that it doesn't go around the corner. (Do not look at the dirt. House has been neglected for quite a while due to building a dairy. I am pretty sure I am going through "nesting" right now as I have the fix, repair, finish, clean bug and it is more than just Springtime cleaning.)   I thought about doing this on my project but it makes the sill difficult to install as I have no fancy shaping tools. 

So when you say cut it at a 45°do you mean that I am going to bring the trim around the corner and install another piece inside the window area?  Or just cut it at a 45° and let it end there. 

@Bruce, since this is a manufactured home I can almost guarantee the the walls are square. It is the one thing I have truly enjoyed about this house. But I will build, fit, cut...good advice. 

The first thing I need to do is put a new blade on my miter saw; that might be a project all on its own.


----------



## Bruce

That is a bit "unconventional" but I guess to keep the symmetry, I would do it the same way as it was done elsewhere. But that does create a visual problem with the board that will run "under" the horizontal board unless the baseboard is flat on top. Even then you'll need to plane/sand down a piece of wood to be the same thickness as the top of the baseboard. 

No, end it at the wall where the window is inset. Though ...... since there will be a gap between the flat board coming out from the window and the walls on the side, you COULD turn the corner and run right to the window trim which would cover that gap nicely. That might look even better. I know you said everything is square but I would check that wall to window corner carefully. If there is drywall, and I suspect there is, there will be corner bead that will make the angle < 90° unless they put a lot of mud on the wall all the way to the window. You might need other than a 45° cut. Not MUCH "other" bit just a wee bit. You would have to replace the piece of baseboard that is there now since it is too short to miter that corner. It looks to be pretty standard so finding more shouldn't be hard. 

Shouldn't be difficult to put a new blade on the miter saw, Mine just needs a bolt and washer taken out and the wrench to do that has built in storage space on the saw itself. Make sure it is a finish blade.


----------



## babsbag

Blade is changed. It had been on there a long time so wasn't sure how hard it would be to get off. I had to remove a guard, which was a Phillip's head screw and that had me worried as they like to strip, but I got it off. The table saw was harder. We own three saws, but the one up near the house is a little tabletop one that was given to my husband. I couldn't find the wrenches and the ones for our Delta saw does not fit. With the help of youTube it is now changed too. Both saws have nice finish blades on them. Some of the base board needs to be ripped as there are a few places where vinyl floor meets laminate floor so all of the baseboard that we installed on the laminate areas was ripped so they would match in height. I also have a piece of laminate flooring to do, a sliver is more like it; so that needs to be ripped too.  

@Southern by choice called me and she thinks I should turn the corner.  

That sill needs to be replaced, my cat decided to chew on the corner, don't ask me why.  It is deeper than I like too, I just need it to hide the top of the board that will run under it. If I knew how to use the router and had a table for it I would make my own. What I really wish is that the sidelights were just shorter, above the baseboard would have been nice. I don't have window sills in any of my windows, just finished sheet rock, but I have one on the sidelights.  If I could figure out a way to do a piece of trim (that would look right) under the window to hide where the floor meets the wall I would just leave the sill out and leave it sheetrock like the rest of the house. Then I would finish the ends of the baseboard like the rest of the house. When I use the sill it will get cut way back so that it only over hangs the board under if by a tad.


----------



## Bruce

At least you have the tools you need to do the job


----------



## misfitmorgan

The picture Bruce showed is the "proper" way to end baseboard. The manufactured way they ended them is a cheap way of making it look "finished", it is far easier for them to 45 the end horizontally and stick that big chunk in then it is to 45 it vertically and fiddle with a tiny triangle of wood.

I would say if you want easy, do a vertical 45 on both sides then cut off a piece of the bottom of the trim to fit below the shelf, then whack off the top of the T to come even with the  baseboard under the window.....as LS said. There would be no planning, no sanding, no hard cuts, lots of caulk and paint perhaps.

If you want it to look really finished, do the top half of the trim like bruce showed, then 45 the bottom board and the front end of the shelf where you whack it off. That will give you a nice finished look......as Bruce said.

If you want easy and no board, just 45 all the way around and paint the cut edges white, little caulk, little paint, little drywall mud, your done.

Also either that board or that window is not square by the looks of the picture. You can see one or the other is canted off.

Might also want to put the missing strip of laminate in...


----------



## babsbag

@misfitmorgan  The floor is what started this (this time). In order to get the laminate in I need to cut the casing on the door or remove and replace. After 9 years of looking at the cheap casing I have decided to remove and replace and start changing out all of the door casings. So now that I have decided to do the door it also means that it is time to do the windows next to the door. And yes, the board is not square. I wish I had paid attention to the model house and how they did the sidelights. I also have new side lights to put in that match the new door we put in, that was another reason we never finished it, but I am betting that they will never get done and I have no idea what it would entail. I have other fish to fry...like a 1977 camper van to convert to the "milk wagon" for farmer's markets. 

Not sure what option I will take and it is raining today (strange wet stuff from the sky, I was told it is called rain) which means my deck (work area) is wet. Also my son and DIL are coming up this weekend, I thought they were coming in two weeks, so once again other things take priority over this project. 

@Bruce  I have an old coping saw, my Dad was a great finish carpenter and used to build furniture too, very detailed oriented.  I had to look up coping inside corners and now I know why my dad had that saw. He had all the cool tools, router, shaper, band saw, jig saw, table saw, etc.  They were all good solid Craftsman tools, wish they were here with me.   However, I don't think I will be coping any inside corners anytime soon, that is what caulk is for.  and the advantage of painted trim. I lived in a house built in 1956 that had base shoe molding all around the ceiling. The ceilings were 2x8 T&G Dougfir with exposed beams; flat top roof so the ceiling was the roof as well so very heavy duty. They used that molding to finish between ceiling and sheetrock and it was all coped. I never could copy their work and I never knew it had a name.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> However, I don't think I will be coping any inside corners anytime soon, that is what caulk is for.


OK, as long as you don't mind your father rolling in his grave for eternity 

Other than the fact that it won't match any other door or window in the house ...





Since no door or window is truly square, the rosette can be sanded to "fix" that and you don't have to super carefully measure and cut the trim to the exact length at the exact proper angle. And no globy looking caulk filled joint painted to hide the gap but still obvious because the caulk will not smoothly replicate the shape of the moulding. And since the rosette sits proud of the trim, no worries with the (non) flatness of the wall where the moulding pieces (don't) meet.

Similarly at floor level




Often the floor moulding and the door moulding are tapered and running the flat cut end of the floor moulding into the tapered edge of the door moulding looks like cr@p (thus the suggestion to cut it at a 45° angle). The block, like the rosette, is intentionally 1/4" thicker than the moulding. Another benefit of this style door trim is that if you redo the floor, you can replace just the short flat part at the bottom.


----------



## babsbag

I like that floor piece, it would be easy(ier) to replace if needed. But I'm not sure the my blase style of home can handle that fancy upgrade. I can't see the rosettes picture, but pretty sure I know which ones you mean, I had them in another house. I have not done the trim as the only clear days we had I was cleaning the property we bought with the help of my kids, it was our Christmas present. Also, I want to do this project during the week when DH is gone so I don't get interrupted and I can work until midnight if needed. Next week I hope. 

On the farm front, pups are three weeks old today and quite possible the fattest pups I have ever had here. Alondra is feasting on cow liver, scrambled eggs and goats milk plus 16 cups of high quality dog food a day. That girl is giving it all to her babies but she really does look good.

Kids...so far 32 kids have hit the ground. 18 does, 14 bucks. Only 7 Jumanji kids so far, 3 doelings, two I will be keeping and one is a LM/Alpine oops breeding so not sure. The dam got bred by two bucks that day and the ears tell me it was Jumanji that met the mark. No problems with kiddings but one doeling had a cleft palate and had to be put down. 

I have a doe with Mastitis and another one that is iffy. I have not done a test on her, will wait until tonight's milking to decide. These are both LM does that I bought last summer from the same herd and I am suspicious that it is mycoplasma mastitis. Not a good deal at all.  Time will tell but it takes 12 days to grow a mycoplasma culture. UGH!!!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Good news to all except the mastitis and kid with the cleft. I think SBC had one this year too. How common is that?


----------



## babsbag

I would like to say that it isn't common, but I have had two now in the last three years.   There are three plants that can cause it if the doe eats them at a certain time during gestation. Poison Hemlock, Tree Tobacco, and a certain Lupine. All of those grow in my area but none on my land but that doesn't mean that there is none in the hay.  I would hope not but you just never know.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> 16 cups of high quality dog food a day.


16 cups a DAY!!! What is she, a horse????


----------



## Wehner Homestead

@Bruce she’s growing those babies and needs all kinds of help to do it! I’m still trying to make one a permanent resident here...

@babsbag Thank you for answering me. I’m mainly just curious. I’ll be honest and say that I never even thought to check for that. That’s something that I will definitely do from now on. As far as those plants, I’ll have to look them up and see if we have them. We mow and bale all of our own hay. The majority is from our land, though we do a few other places on shares but most of that gets sold.


----------



## babsbag

For those that remember my wild time just about a year ago with my neighbor...well here comes round two. We were putting up the fence on the SURVEYED property line and the neighbor brought his rifle to our fencing party. Sheriff was called, rifle was confiscated, DA has been contacted, and the next day WE filed the restraining order. Geesh. I hate neighbors, or at least that one. They swear that they had it surveyed too and that our survey is wrong. But their survey was never recorded, ours was. And ours matches the plat.  They say that we have to go to court and prove we are right and I say that they have to take us to court and prove we are wrong since we have the recorded survey.


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## babsbag

And I just don't have the time or the energy to fight about it. If it wasn't for the fact that I have a USDA loan on the land that prohibits livestock in the stream bed I would let them have it, I DON'T CARE. But since it makes me default on the terms of the loan I certainly do care. They run their horses on it and that is not going to work. My goal is to turn the area into bee habitat so I need the horses out so I can plant native trees, flowers, shrubs, and grass and not have it eaten and trampled by horses. But why can't they just be normal people, look at the map, get out a tape measure and admit that they are wrong? In CA they can't claim adverse possession unless they are paying the property taxes and I know that they are not doing that since I am.


----------



## Latestarter

I'd suggest a couple of game cams to collect evidence. They seem just stupid enough to do something that could land them in jail.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

X2 to what LS said. My first worry is you, your DH, and those wonderful LGDs!!


----------



## Mike CHS

Can't think of much else to say other than WOW.  You don't get to choose your neighbors and that's a shame in this case.


----------



## Baymule

I can't print my first response........2nd response.....good call on calling the sheriff. Go all the way to the courts with these loonies.


----------



## babsbag

My next step on the property is to finish the fence and then send them a "no trespass letter" so that they will take down their fence that is in the wrong place. If they don't take it down that will give me the legal recourse to do it ourselves. We won't keep the fence, we will just roll it up and put it on their property. The letter will also force them to get them to take this to court and the only way they can do that is with an attorney and I doubt that they have the means. I can't afford it right now so I want them to be the one to make the case. I can handle a defense, but the offense is complicated to file and over my head.

I do worry about my dogs and goats. I have the feeling that they would be the type to do evil. Fortunately this piece of land is across the road from where my animals are so that helps a LITTLE. I worry about poison and guns and these people are evil incarnate.  There are no trees to mount cameras on, flat open area, so not sure how to get a camera up that is out of sight. And no power so has to be battery and have a card as no wi-fi. Any ideas?


----------



## Bruce

That is rough. If they had it surveyed, where are the markers? BTW it is illegal to mess with official markers put in by a surveyor. Trouble for them if them pull or move yours. Since yours is recorded you can show if any markers were moved. 

It IS possible to have 2 surveys and have them not match. I don't know how one figures out which is correct other than having a 3rd surveyor do the lines and HOPEFULLY theirs will match one of the earlier ones. Your neighbors probably "know" they are right since their fence has been there for some period of time. Of course that doesn't mean it is on/near the legal lot line.


----------



## babsbag

If they picked up a tape measure and a map they would know that they are wrong. The north boundary line of their land is on a county road so it is pretty easy to see where their property corners are.  Follow the map south for 355' and you would find the south corner of their land. Easy. We aren't talking a few feet that they are off, we are talking a few hundred feet, no survey can be that far off. Plus we had our land (where our house is) surveyed when we bought it and our corners match up with the map and with the corners on the new land. We fenced inside the line by about 3' so there could be no debate. I am not one to squabble over a few feet of land in the country but they probably would.


----------



## Bruce

Sounds like they are WAY wrong then. They have probably been using what is now your land for quite some time and wrongly consider it theirs to use forever.

IF they decide to pull back they will have to come inside your new fence to get theirs?? That could be fun.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Just wow! Hoping all turns out well and I’m glad they aren’t bordering right on your livestock!


----------



## babsbag

So far I have 50 kids that have been born here. 23 bucks and 27 does. 18 more does to kid. So far I am keeping 15 doelings. Heaven help me, I have lost my mind.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I wondered how kidding was going! Hope the rest goes well!


----------



## Mini Horses

So, Babsbag -- how many adult goats do you "think" you have  (I promise we won't tell DH) ?

Are you actually milking in the new dairy yet & marketing?    You have to be so very busy (understatement, I know!!) and not much time to post.   BUT -- we may be one of your only outlets    Hey, with work you must do, things you must tend, DH gone all week........WE are here 24/7 for you to visit, then drop almost dead, into bed!!   Sleep?  Do you get any?


----------



## Bruce

That is a lot of babies!!!!!

Bought some pasteurized goat milk the other day. Interestingly it doesn't seem much different than cow milk. Goat milk is whole, I buy 2% cow. I kinda figured it would have a somewhat different taste.


----------



## babsbag

@Mini Horses  I think I have 45 does and I know that I have 7  bucks.  I have 2 does that are leaving tomorrow as they have Staph Aureus mastitis and unfortunately I can't risk keeping them on the milk line even if I clear them up. It tends to be chronic and often sub-clinical and very easy to spread through the milk clusters. I did find them a good home though so I am happy for that. 

I am finding it very hard on me emotionally to pull kids. I expected it to be hard, but not this hard. I just want kidding season to be over. Most of the goats  that I am milking so far are FF and a few of them are not cutting the program at all. So I am waiting for some more does to freshen and then the work begins.


----------



## Mini Horses

I am assuming you mean "pull" them from their doe mom's to bottle raise...right?  Yeah, that would be hard on me.  Plus, the does can have issues.  FFs maybe less as they haven't previously raised kids.  Others -- may be an issue, especially if they hear & smell them.

 Hard to handle "tough love" when you have never had to.

There was a Utube thing I watched a yr or so ago, where the dairy does were put into a barn with stalls at week of kidding, watched 24/7 and kids removed immediately at birth, taken to a nursery to be cleaned, dried, etc.  Does were milked of colostrum to feed them and all does milked for kid feeding for first 2 weeks....etc.  then on milk line up.  They never, licked or sniffed those kids -- that much attendance!  I understand and care was exceptional but......saddened me.   The does seemed fine, like no biggie.   Believe, not positive, it was India.  Huge set-up.  Interesting.


----------



## babsbag

I am usually not around when the kids are being born this year. They are being really sneaky and not going by my calendar at all and I don't have enough room to lock them up for a week at time. So I have been taking the kids at about 2 days and the does are really crying for them, it makes me sad. I have a new plan so we will see. I am only milking once a day, in the morning. So what I am trying is to leave the doe with one kid. They don't seem to miss them as much when they have one to care for. I am locking up the kids at night, milking the doe, and then giving the kids a bottle and turning them out with the herd. I am hoping that this will keep the does happy, keep the kids friendly, and not make it so hard on me.  I just have to make sure that catching the kids in the evening for lock up doesn't become a goat rodeo. I don't have time for that.  This might actually help with the does' production in the long run too.


----------



## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> There was a Utube thing I watched a yr or so ago, where the dairy does were put into a barn with stalls at week of kidding, watched 24/7 and kids removed immediately at birth, taken to a nursery to be cleaned, dried, etc. Does were milked of colostrum to feed them and all does milked for kid feeding for first 2 weeks....etc. then on milk line up. They never, licked or sniffed those kids -- that much attendance! I understand and care was exceptional but......saddened me. The does seemed fine, like no biggie. Believe, not positive, it was India. Huge set-up. Interesting.


Went to a "breakfast on the farm" 2 summers ago. The dairy farm did just that. All the calves are "bottle" raised from the get go. Makes sense really, the purpose of the cows on a dairy farm is to give milk and make replacement cows. They don't put a lot of milk in the tank if the calves are drinking it.


----------



## greybeard

Latestarter said:


> Alternately, you can just bend each wire back on itself over the opposing wire and then twist each end back around itself Think locking index fingers. #3 in the pic below.
> View attachment 31031
> This will weaken the wire somewhat at the bend point, but since there will be no real "load" on the wire, it won't be a critical issue.
> 
> Then place your stick, bolt, rebar, conduit, whatever you have between the two sides and start twisting it to tighten it.



I know this is an old post but the knot picture showed up as one of the "pics from our members" at the top of the page. There's a specific reason not to use #3 for joining wire, especially in the diagonal brace wire that supports the brace post.
1. It (as someone else stated), is a weak knot. Visually similar to but not anywhere  close to a western union. The reason the reef/sq knot works so well is if look closely, the loops have 2 wires to bind against. Reef/sq knot, WU,  or Tex Brown knot is best. (A Tex Brown is difficult to tie with any wire over 180KSI and is pretty demanding even with 180)
2. That diagonal wire supports the brace post. The brace post takes 1/2 the strain of the entire fence tension..transmitted to it via the horizontal post making the H. If there is a knot anywhere on a fence that requires special attention, it's the knot holding that diagonal wire together.

This, is one of the better terminal knots to tie off at the anchor post. Not the bitter end goes around the post, around the back side of the fence wire, and thru the loop before the twists begin.  I posted  a link yesterday to a video in Latestarter's journal showing a pro fencer tying off exactly this way at a post with fixed knot net fence, but it works perfectly well with single strand wire as well.







(I do use the double diagonal (X) wire on some of my ends or corners where a gateway is but only because I have extremely soggy ground much of the year.  If I lived in a drier climate, I would not make the X at a gate because the tension of the fence wire on the gate post should more than offset the weight of even a 16-18' gate.)


----------



## babsbag

I haven't posted in forever, just too darn busy. Goats to milk, weeds to cut, chicks and ducks to raise, pups to play with, garden to plant, and the list goes on. My post right now is because I am looking for advice.

I have 4 puppies left and one of them is the female that is supposed to go to @soarwitheagles.  The problem is that she is ready (12 weeks old) and I haven't been able to reach him. I don't know his name, I have no way to reach him other than BYH and he hasn't answered my messages in the last 10 days. The last time I communicated with him was on 5/5. What to do?


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’m not familiar with this person (at this moment anyway) but your post made me curious.

This shows that he was logged in on Tues night late/Wed morning early. I’d watch this and if he doesn’t get back to you soon, I’d say place her with someone else if the opportunity arises since you don’t have an alternate method for contact...


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I haven't posted in forever


I noticed 

Sure hope @soarwitheagles gets back to you soon, surprised you and he didn't exchange phone numbers. Heck, if I were on the list for a pup, you'ld be hearing from me almost daily asking for pictures! 

Perhaps the forum owners have extra contact info for members?


----------



## Latestarter

Hope you'll take a moment or two and give a dairy update when you get a chance. Hope all is going well. I'm with Bruce... did Soar send you a deposit for the pup? I'm assuming he didn't as you said the only comms you had with him was through BYH... No idea what your arrangements are/were. He does seem to not post frequently... With no deposit and no contact, I'd say all bets are off and place the pup elsewhere if you need.


----------



## babsbag

Just a quick update in case inquiring minds want to know. My county is being ravished by a wildfire. 90,000 acres burning, over 500 homes lost, 6 lives, and about 37,000 people evacuated. I am ok, the fire is about 10 miles from my home, but many of friends are not so lucky. Please say a prayer for all affected. 

The dairy is doing well, going to some markets (which have been cancelled due to fires) and I have one grocery store that has agreed to carry my products. I am selling more cheese than milk, and milk is easier, but it is what it is. I am pursuing making ice cream. Maybe not this summer, but next for sure. 

Breeding season is around the corner and here we go again. I don't think I have been this busy or worked this hard in my enire life.


----------



## Hens and Roos

, sorry to hear about the wildfire being in your area and the loss of lives and homes.

Sounds like you are keeping more then busy, so what type(s) of cheese are you making?

Stay safe!


----------



## OneFineAcre

I actually texted SBC yesterday and asked if everything was OK with you we hadn't heard from you in so long.
Prayers for you and your neighbors affected by the fires.
I'm glad the dairy is going well.


----------



## Latestarter

Please be careful and keep aware of the fires and movement direction. Hope you stay clear of it. Sorry for your friends that are dealing with it. Thanks for stopping in with an update. It's good to know you're still alive and well. Sorry the Dairy is turning into more work than you might have initially envisioned, but congrats on its growing success, I hope it continues and grows for you, and as they say, "You asked for this!"


----------



## CntryBoy777

I've been wondering and praying for ya and was concerned about the fires being close by....the devastation is heart breaking.....it is really good to hear the dairy is doing well and growing....all your hard work is being rewarded and that isn't a great surprise.....you deserve the success.....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

The fires are scary!  But, glad to hear you're keeping busy and moving product!


----------



## Bruce

Glad to hear you are still alive and kicking @babsbag !! I can see goat cheese selling, not sure why the milk isn't. I would buy some if I were there.


----------



## farmerjan

I was really happy to see the updates from you as I followed your "journey" to becoming a full fledged dairy pretty closely and was wondering if it all became too much and you took a quick trip to outer mongolia to escape?!!!?  Seriously, I am sure it has been a big learning curve to have so many fresh at once, so many bottles to feed and then to have to be making "products" from the milk , "in your spare time"  !!!  I couldn't do it so my hat's off to you.


----------



## Southern by choice

farmerjan said:


> I was really happy to see the updates from you as I followed your "journey" to becoming a full fledged dairy pretty closely and was wondering if it all became too much and you took a quick trip to outer mongolia to escape?!!!?  Seriously, I am sure it has been a big learning curve to have so many fresh at once, so many bottles to feed and then to have to be making "products" from the milk , "in your spare time"  !!!  I couldn't do it so my hat's off to you.



I also am just floored by all of it!  Babs has energy though and can do anything!     

She keeps wanting to have @Goat Whisperer  out, (she may go in November for a visit) although I am afraid she may hold her hostage! 
NO way she's sticking me with 100000000 Nigerians kidding!


----------



## goatgurl

really glad to hear from you @babsbag.   was just thinking about you the other day, with the fires in redding  was concerned that they were close to you.  this isn't meant to be smart assed but I sure hope your insurance is paid up.  this has got to be so scary for you.  know that you and your family are in our prayers.
  so glad that the dairy is doing well.  it is sure hard work but as they say in these parts, you're a tough old hide and you can handle it.  keep in touch with us so we know you're safe.


----------



## Mini Horses

We've all missed you, your trials, tales and goat info -- especially the dairy updates!   Now that we know you are out there it seems a MUST for at least "we are still ok" so we know the farm has been passed by the fires.   Such a horrid situation, those fires!

Hugs & prayers.


----------



## babsbag

Yes, my insurance is paid   

The fires are devastating, I think over 800 homes have been lost and I can't even wrap my head around where all those people are going to live while rebuilding. This is a pretty rural town and most everyone has dogs and cats if not livestock, what do you do with all those animals? I am so thankful that we were far enough away. I donated a bunch of alfalfa pellets that are being taken through the active fire line to get to a vet clinic on the other side of the mountain that needs supplies for evacuees. Just a horrible horrible thing. Our community has pulled together and stepped up to the plate which is good to see. Of course the looters are out too...shoot 'em is my motto, no tolerance for that crap.

@Hens and Roos as far as cheese, I am making chevre and feta. I made Sundried tomato and Basil chevre but the tomatoes discolored the cheese and looked bad so I need to work on that. The plain sells really well. The Feta is still aging. I also do yogurt.    I am thinking of adding ice cream but I need to buy a machine and it isn't cheap so not sure. I really really want to do the ice cream but it is a big step. One of our local grocery stores agreed to buy product from me so that was really encouraging.  These fires have put a damper on Farmer's Markets so having another outlet is good and I stink at marketing. 

We bought an old 1977 Ford Camper van that was stripped inside. We lined the walls with white fiberglass paneling and put two freezers in it. We put about 4" of water in the bottom of the freezers and freeze them when parked at home and then when we go to markets it keeps the product cold. It is a really fun van and people love it. We call her Heidi.  My husband does the weekend markets for me so that is nice and I can certainly use the help.


----------



## Devonviolet

It's so good to hear from you, Bans!  I have been wondering hog you are doing, and how the dairy is fairing.

I was watching the late news and they were talking about how two of the fires were getting close to merging and they showed a map that looked like it wasn't too far fron you. So I went looking for your most recent posts. 

I am so glad to hear you aren't too close to the fires and the dairy is coming along. My prayers are with you!


----------



## Hens and Roos

@babsbag, chevre is what we make a lot of-our favorite add in is dill weed, we made a batch of feta last year but haven't made any yet this year.  We have been making mozzarella now too and it never last long in our house! We had to order gloves that were thick enough to protect our hands when dipping the cheese into the hot whey for stretching.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm really glad to see Superwoman Babs check in and on top of that Heidi looks awesome.


----------



## Bruce

Southern by choice said:


> She keeps wanting to have @Goat Whisperer out, (she may go in November for a visit) although I am afraid she may hold her hostage!
> NO way she's sticking me with 100000000 Nigerians kidding!


Hey, the girl needs to get out and see the world. But not until the smoke clears!

Cool "farm wagon" Babs. Nice that you can drive it to your "stall" at the market. At the one here everyone has to unload and park elsewhere (it is in a city park) which means hauling coolers and all the product. I should drive by at 9:30 some Saturday morning just to watch the chaos of all those people unloading on Main Street.


----------



## Devonviolet

Bruce said:


> At the one here everyone has to unload and park elsewhere (it is in a city park) which means hauling coolers and all the product. I should drive by at 9:30 some Saturday morning just to watch the chaos of all those people unloading on Main Street.


We have to drop everything off, park and then set up at 6:45AM.  It’s a LOT of work!  Then, do the reverse at noon.  

This past Saturday, we had a storm pass over just as we pulled up to unload.  That meant unloading in torrential downpour, park the truck, and set up the canopy.  We got totally drenched!!!  It rained fairly heavily, for another hour, before it slowed down to a drizzle.  I thought the customers might stay away. But, some actually came out with umbrellas.  We did almost a well as we did the week before. So, I can’t complain.  

Love your Heidi, Babs.  If we had one of those babies, we would be able to just park in our space. That would make things so much easier!!!


----------



## babsbag

There is no way we could do markets without Heidi, just too hot here to use ice chests unless we were to buy dry ice every time and that is just a pain.  I have one indoor market I go to and they let me store product in the refrigerator and then I just keep an ice chest with samples at my table. It works well.


----------



## babsbag

This update is for @lkmartin1230.  Don't do it...Just kidding (don't do that either...) 

Things I wish I had known or things I knew but didn't want to accept.


There is money in volume. The more goats you have the less per gallon the milk will cost you. 

You need to be a mad scientist.
The lab setup for testing milk for antibiotic residue is expensive and it will cost you money every single time you test..about 10 a day. (FDA requirement)

Electricity is EXPENSIVE. (400-600 a month just for the dairy)
Insurance is hard to find and will cost a bundle.

Supplies will cost you more than you realize. 

Labels and packaging are expensive

Build a bigger dairy than you think you will need.
Figure out how to milk 40 goats when the equipment doesn't work 

Things break and you better know how to fix them
Have a way to dispose of milk when the bulk tank doesn't work and the milk is above legal temperature

Figure out how to raise 80-100 kids every year and how to feed them

Have an outlet for your product
People don't like goat's milk, it has a bad reputation as being "stinky"
Plan a way to get product to market while keeping it cold
You need to like to do dishes.
You will work harder than you ever dreamed possible.
Cheese has its own schedule and may need to be drained or put into molds at 1 AM.

Plan on no vacations, not even a one day trip out of town
Good luck and start by asking for State codes regarding dairy construction. Also the Pasteurized Milk Ordinance is followed by almost every State so if the State code doesn't address something the PMO will.


----------



## Bruce

In other words, have a TON of money up front, a large solar array and 25 hours a day to work the dairy?


----------



## CntryBoy777

Wow!!....I'm worn out just thinking about it after reading that....it does reaffirm just how Amazing ya really are Babs...........


----------



## lkmartin1230

babsbag said:


> This update is for @lkmartin1230.  Don't do it...Just kidding (don't do that either...)
> 
> Things I wish I had known or things I knew but didn't want to accept.
> 
> 
> There is money in volume. The more goats you have the less per gallon the milk will cost you.
> 
> You need to be a mad scientist.
> The lab setup for testing milk for antibiotic residue is expensive and it will cost you money every single time you test..about 10 a day. (FDA requirement)
> 
> Electricity is EXPENSIVE. (400-600 a month just for the dairy)
> Insurance is hard to find and will cost a bundle.
> 
> Supplies will cost you more than you realize.
> 
> Labels and packaging are expensive
> 
> Build a bigger dairy than you think you will need.
> Figure out how to milk 40 goats when the equipment doesn't work
> 
> Things break and you better know how to fix them
> Have a way to dispose of milk when the bulk tank doesn't work and the milk is above legal temperature
> 
> Figure out how to raise 80-100 kids every year and how to feed them
> 
> Have an outlet for your product
> People don't like goat's milk, it has a bad reputation as being "stinky"
> Plan a way to get product to market while keeping it cold
> You need to like to do dishes.
> You will work harder than you ever dreamed possible.
> Cheese has its own schedule and may need to be drained or put into molds at 1 AM.
> 
> Plan on no vacations, not even a one day trip out of town
> Good luck and start by asking for State codes regarding dairy construction. Also the Pasteurized Milk Ordinance is followed by almost every State so if the State code doesn't address something the PMO will.


Thanks @babsbag I appreciate this very much. Sounds like something I would love!! Even with all the work.


----------



## Bruce

Going in eyes wide open!


----------



## babsbag

@Bruce Pretty much. I am looking at adding more solar but having a hard time finding a clear roof or ground area that gets enough sun. I hate cutting down trees.  Also trying to stay out of the "line of fire" of our county inspectors. They figure that I need another 6 Kw array.


----------



## Devonviolet

lkmartin1230 said:


> Thanks @babsbag I appreciate this very much. Sounds like something I would love!! Even with all the work.


You must be under 60!         Just reading that list made me want to go take a nap!!!


----------



## Mike CHS

@babsbag was my inspiration that kept me going every time I felt like slowing down.  I just had to get caught up on her journal and it was obvious I didn't have that much going on.


----------



## Mini Horses

Really guys -- she only mentions a few things that you should know/sort out UP FRONT.   NO WHERE did I read about the actual daily work of feeding, milking, processing, cleaning (both dairy & barns/grounds) .

What I want to know is  -- when does superwoman get her cape laundered?     I don't believe she eats, just a squirt of milk will do.   And HOW does she even get to a market to sample??  No time to spare!   

Dump an entire tank of milk?       (Feed pigs? )

Hope you have some employees, Babs.


----------



## lkmartin1230

Devonviolet said:


> You must be under 60!         Just reading that list made me want to go take a nap!!!


Way under 60


----------



## OneFineAcre

Really good to here from.you Babs
You hang in there
I know GW pretty well
I know she would enjoy the trip to your place
Contact local bagel/delis
They can upcharge a bagel with chevre over plain cream cheese
And when If gets older and more crumbly they can put on a salad


----------



## Devonviolet

lkmartin1230 said:


> Way under 60


Ah, to be young again!!!!!  

There are so many things I would do differently.  I wish I had started my farm in my 40’s instead of my 60’s.   Although, I can’t complain. As many on here have told me. We have accomplished a LOT since we moved here in January of 2015.


----------



## Mike CHS

Doing what we do keeps us young.    At least young enough to keep doing it better.


----------



## Devonviolet

Mike CHS said:


> Doing what we do keeps us young.    At least young enough to keep doing it better.


That’s the way I see it.  DH retired back in 2012, and to tell you the truth, I’m not sure if he would be here, if he was able to sit and do nothing all day.


----------



## Mini Horses

It's true!! Use it or lose it!   The work & exercise keeps us moving -- maybe a little sore but, moving!   The mental aspect is crucial.  The networking, uplifting.

PLUS  -- the nutrition we get from homegrown, home milked, free range eggs, all make a huge difference.  Senior bodies do not produce the things produced when younger.  Supplement if needed and keep moving on!  EAT well & wise.

That fresh goat milk and free range hen eggs are way more nutritious than any store bought (poor caged hens) WE CAN BUY.  Heirloom veggies with no chems can't be beat.


----------



## babsbag

Well I just turned 60 in May so I was under 60 when I started this, and no, I don't have any employees. There are days that I just want to roll over and move to the city and forget this but I know that I would be miserable once I got there.  Right now it is the administrative crap that keeps me busy, things like paying bills, ordering labels, looking for ways to pay for solar, research cream separators, etc. Plus trying to keep up on all the stuff that comes with just living, like normal bills and chores. Today I am going to try and take a MOUNTAIN of cans and bottles to the recycle place, but I need to hurry as they might close early on Saturday. I was supposed to go to OR today to pick up a goat but sent DH instead as I didn't have time to get the house ready for a house sitter. I swear that I must  have lost a cat or two as there is enough hair on my floors to "clothe" an entire animal. I don't normally live like this but it is the new norm. 

Then the farm chores, build a feeder, fix a fence, install a gate, etc. I keep thinking that someday those kind of things will get done, maybe...maybe not, but dreaming keeps me busy. I do one market on Thursday afternoon and DH does two for me on the weekends. He is going to retire in 2 months and I really wish that he would buy into running the dairy but that isn't likely to happen. He helps with some things but it isn't his thing...retirement might be a really sore point around here. 

Breeding season has started, not my choice. I finally rounded up the mini Alpine buck that was being over enthusiastic with the ladies but I am sure that he bred at least three of them. I am not keeping any kids next year so I am just going to let what happened stay happened. I have many many more to breed selectively but I honestly might not. It is a lot of work, I may just turn the two bucks loose with the lades and let the deed be done. I can tell by the ears who sired the kids so that makes it easy. I really have too many bucks. 

So all in all it is a lot of work but just praying that the sales will continue to go up as people discover me. I do like that idea of selling chevre for bagels, never really thought about that market. I do have one place that wants to offer goats milk for their coffee drinks. I need a full time marketing pro.


----------



## Southern by choice

Oh crap...  I forgot- do you still want me to send you the cream separator?  You are suppose to remind me of these things! 
I can pack it up this weekend.


----------



## babsbag

@Southern by choice, yes I would like to try out the cream separator. But who reminds me to remind you?


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## Southern by choice




----------



## Bruce

MAYBE DH will find out sitting around is boring and decide to help more with the dairy?
We can hope.


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## Latestarter

Bruce, I would guess that the likelihood of that happening is about the same as your DD1 helping you kill off wood chucks or allowing you to raise and butcher meat for the freezer, followed by her eating it. 

Sorry you're so slammed Babs. Hope you link up with a marketing pro to help get you rolling.


----------



## Southern by choice

Latestarter said:


> Bruce, I would guess that the likelihood of that happening is about the same as your DD1 helping you kill off wood chucks or allowing you to raise and butcher meat for the freezer, followed by her eating it.


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## babsbag

I would say that @Latestarter has pretty much nailed it.  I have come to realize that if something around my house needs water to live or water to clean it it is my responsibility.  It's funny, because 10 years ago he was the one that found Moonpie on Craigslist; I wasn't even looking for a goat. He helped take care of them for the first year or so and then quickly lost interest. The first time I left him alone with out first three goats he lost them. He took a nap, and the goats got out and went for a walk about. I knew that the fences weren't goat proof and seldom took my eyes off of them for long when they were out of their small pen.  We found them the next day about three miles away.  The night I drug him outside to help me with a kidding issue was the last time he ever stepped into a goat pen. It wasn't the kidding, it was the fact that it was 2 AM.  They are mine...all mine. However, he is in OR today picking up another goat for me.


----------



## Mini Horses

Well, we all have our interests and faults.  But, you may be able to use his time for just what he is doing now!  A gopher would be a help, right?   if he will get feed, attend markets, deliver/pickup whatever you need -- it's freeing up time for you.   Is he any good at talking & promoting?   Can--will -- would he help fix equipment?  Repair fences?  Will he cook and clean?  Whatever.

OK, I'm just searching for you.


----------



## babsbag

@Mini Horses  He does cook but only cleans if he needs to use it to cook. I have already warned  him that I need one day a week with no cooking so I can clean the stove top. He is creative and good at cooking, but not neat and tidy. 

He will run errands, he loves to go to town. So yes I already have it on my radar that he will be "my errand runner" I have to go after hay once a week so I will make that his project if he is willing. (I buy my hay in BIG 1200-1400 pound bales and only have room to store two, but one is easier.  We can get hay here year round so no need to stock up for the winter) 

He does two markets now, not sure he likes them, but he is good at it. He loves to talk and is very good a sales. He will repair things but usually I have to beg. We need to rebuild a carburetor on the milk wagon and he will do it with enough pushing and a deadline but he will most likely wait until the last possible moment. She failed her smog test so we do have a deadline to get it done. 

Maybe when he is home it will change, I hope.  It is interesting though, he feeds the hummingbirds and the wild birds, strange collection of "chores". 

I would love to make enough money to hire a housekeeper once a week, or even every two weeks. And then someone to prune the orchard in the winter would be nice.


----------



## Baymule

I just got caught up on your journal. I am glad that you are safe from the fires. I hope that you get more marketing going and sales go up. Retirement will be an adjustment, my husband wanted me to fix lunch every day, Huh? He now is able to heat up leftovers all on his own with no help from me. LOL


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## Southern by choice




----------



## Bruce

Latestarter said:


> Bruce, I would guess that the likelihood of that happening is about the same as your DD1 helping you kill off wood chucks or allowing you to raise and butcher meat for the freezer, followed by her eating it.


So you are saying you don't think Bab's DH will be helpful? 



Baymule said:


> I just got caught up on your journal. I am glad that you are safe from the fires. I hope that you get more marketing going and sales go up. Retirement will be an adjustment, my husband wanted me to fix lunch every day, Huh? He now is able to heat up leftovers all on his own with no help from me. LOL


Super funny. When my FIL retired apparently my MIL (didn't know them at the time) told him up front she wasn't going to be making his lunch. She is a grazer, doesn't make lunch for herself either.


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## babsbag

I barely sit down for dinner, I never eat lunch and breakfast is a maybe.


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## babsbag

RIP Moonpie, may you watch over your herd and your dairy from greener pastures where it is never hot or cold and you will never run out of acorns and oak leaves. You and your antics  will be greatly missed.


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## Mini Horses

ohhhh, so sorry.  RIP Moonpie.    to you.


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## Goat Whisperer

Aww man  So sorry Babs


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## Hens and Roos

So sorry


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## Bruce

How old was Moonpie?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

So sorry...


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## Devonviolet

Oh Sweet Babs!  I am SO sorry!   She was a beautiful goat!  I bet she gave you tons of milk.


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## Wehner Homestead

I’m SO SO sorry Babs!!  I can’t even imagine!


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## babsbag

Moonpie was 12.5 years old. She was my first goat, bought her and her two sisters on Craigslist and knew zero about goats. I still have one sister.  Her last few years she was retired from kidding but would still come into milk. It was getting harder and harder for her to walk, I had been giving her CBD oil. A few nights ago she was late coming in and when I found her she was open mouth breathing, temp 105.9.  Gave her banamine, and Nuflor. Fever was gone in the morning but still labored breathing. No cough, no runny nose or goopy eyes. Added Dex to the cocktail, but still no improvement. She would eat and drink if I hand fed her and held the garden hose for her. Decided today to take her to the vet knowing that her time had come. Loaded her up and went to change my clothes; 5 minutes later came out and she was gone. She wanted to die at home. My dairy is named for her and she is the goat in my logo.


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## BlessedWithGoats

So sorry Babs


----------



## Southern by choice

Oh my heart hurts for you my friend. I am so sorry.


----------



## Mike CHS

We all know and feel what you have going on there.  I'm so sorry.


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

So sad for you.  It sure hurts.


----------



## Baymule

Oh wow. I am so sorry. I know she was your love, she started this whole thing and you have her memory to carry with you. It sure hurts to lose one that you have so many years with, so many good times and so much love for. Big hugs.


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## Latestarter

Really sorry to hear Babs. Her legacy is the dairy and your logo, all from her.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

I am so sorry


----------



## babsbag

Thank you for all the condolences, it was hard to go to the barn this morning...I know in time it will get easier.

Mia has pups due in 9 days. So far no problems so wish us both some luck. She lost her pups at 7 weeks gestation last time and she is just past that right now.

Breeding season is in full swing and I have too many bucks...anyone need a Lamancha or a nigi?

Looking at making ice cream in the dairy. @Devonviolet I know that you use your cream separator a lot but what do you use the low fat milk for after taking the cream out? I want to add extra cream to the ice cream but I don't want to just waste all that milk.

@HomeOnTheRange are you still considering mini Alpines? I am selling all of mine as it is just too hard to own multiple breeds during breeding season. I have 5 does that I am milking that are F1, 5 does that are this year kids that are F2 and one mini F1 buck that is 1.5 years old. He is the sire of the F2 kids and I will be breeding him back to his daughters as I have no other options...another reason I am selling.  I have people that want bottle baby minis next spring so I will breed a few of my does for minis again and that will be the end of it.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Sorry about Moonpie


----------



## farmerjan

Sorry to read of your loss.  That is a nice picture of her.  She will of course live on as your inspiration for the major lifestyle change you took on to build and operate the dairy.   Is that an old age for a goat?  I really have no clue how long they normally live.  At 12 a cow is getting into the "old age" group although there are some breeds that remain productive into their mid and late teens; but on many farms a cow is considered old by the time she is into the double digits.


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## Baymule

Could you make a low fat cheese with the skim milk?


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## CntryBoy777

That is a shame Babs..........she has been instrumental in the building of your dairy and is truly worthy of being immortalized in your logo....she has help to give ya a solid foundation to build on and lots of great memories too. Maybe one of her offspring will attempt to fill her hooves.


----------



## Baymule

Can't wait to see puppy pictures!


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## Latestarter

What Bay said!


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## babsbag

Hopefully puppy pictures will be soon, I have been worried since she lost them last year. Next Friday is 63 days so technically she could go even earlier. Just hope that it isn't next Monday since I have scheduled my "once every year (or 2) whether I need it or not"  doctor's appts. out of town and will be gone for hours and hours. They are finally holding my thyroid meds hostage so I really need to go. 

I lost one of Moonpie's daughters this year too. She had delivered preemie quads and just went downhill, most likely a metabolic issue of some kind, goats are like that... Two of the quads didn't make it but of the two that did one is brown and white like Moonpie. We had already named her Mini Moon and she's a keeper. I will try and get a picture of her.


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## Wehner Homestead

Can’t wait to see a pic of Mini Moon!! 

I’ll also pray things go well for Mia!!


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## Donna R. Raybon

Baymule said:


> Could you make a low fat cheese with the skim milk?


A lot of cheeses are made with skim, so low fat.  Cottage cheese, mozzarella  are two I make with skim.  I make a lot of yogurt and let it drain to make cheese.  Are you using goat or cow milk?


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## ragdollcatlady

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Are you using goat or cow milk?



She has a goat dairy, so it's all goats milk.


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## babsbag

Here is Mini Moon. Even though she is an American Alpine the Togg color from her Grandma sure came shining through. Moonpie was 25% Togg.


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## babsbag

In the dairy I am only making Chevre, feta, yogurt, and bottled milk. I am going to do ice cream but not really sure that I want to get into making more products to sell but I do need to find a use for skimmed milk other than raising pigs. Adding additional products means adding packaging, labels (which have to be approved for a fee of course), and then marketing. It is quite a bit of work to pack everything up for Farmer's markets, especially if you are giving out samples.


----------



## Mini Horses

How many are you milking for the dairy?   Are you doing the cheeses & yogurt yourself?  I'm thinking any help?  

Because I can see little time for much activity beyond these "chores"....as in feeding yourself, laundry, sleep, etc.    No biggie -- right superwoman?


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## Bruce

I think ice cream would be hard if for no reason other than having to keep it frozen even at the farmer's markets.


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## babsbag

@Mini Horses I am currently milking 40 and next year will be closer to 60. As I determine the best milkers from this year's kid crop I will narrow that number down but I don't want to jump too soon on first fresheners as maybe they will be great in year two. I also don't want a milk string of first fresheners so for a few more years I will have more goats than I need.  I don't have any help in the dairy. DH does the Saturday market for me and the rest is on me. The house is a disaster, the lawn needs mowed, the garden is a bust, the grapes are going to the birds, the orchard needs a summer pruning, the pool looks like a pond, and the pond needs cleaned too.  Yep, things are different that's for sure. 

@Bruce, as far as the ice cream... I will buy a small cold plate freezer and install it in the van; it will easily keep the ice cream frozen for the 4 hours we are at market. Think of an ice cream truck or the street vendors, that is what many of them use.

The nice thing about ice cream is that its shelf life is about a year. I can make it when the milk is flowing and sell it when it isn't. There are many people that can't have cow milk ice cream so my limited market research tells me that this would be a good seller. I hope that I am right.


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## Wehner Homestead

Mini Moon!!!


----------



## CntryBoy777

What about working with local 4H and finding some mature young'uns to assist ya with the operation and chores?....or even hire a couple of part-timers....


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> The nice thing about ice cream is that its shelf life is about a year. I can make it when the milk is flowing and sell it when it isn't. There are many people that can't have cow milk ice cream so my limited market research tells me that this would be a good seller. I hope that I am right.


I'd be happy to test it for you  Of course it is a bit of a drive for me.


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## babsbag

@CntryBoy777  I hope to hire someone someday but it seems that there is a steep learning curve to the dairy side and I have to make sure that the right person is responsible enough to pay attention to details and to let me know if something is out of the ordinary.  You can't just let things slide and hope that no one will notice.  I am more scientist than dairy owner (I hate science) and it seems like there is always some little thing that needs fixing. I would love to find someone to do the daily chores like feeding and then things like trimming hooves and vaccinations, and lets not even think about next year and kidding.  

Unfortunately I have no leads on any young person that actually wants to work; farm chores are not easy.


----------



## Bruce

Heck with that, hire someone to clean the house, garden, pool and pond! Then you don't have to feel pressure to "do it all".


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## Mike CHS

I wish I knew how they did the business model but the farm that we bought a ewe and our ram has a slew of interns doing all of the grunt work in their gardens and sheep handling.  There are some paid employees but most are college students.  I have no idea how you could find out how to start that.


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## babsbag

I would love to know how to hire interns and have them covered by worker's comp.  And then where to find them and what are they getting in return for their hard work.


----------



## TAH

So sorry for your loss of moonpie... But mini moonpie is just so sticking cute! 

Wish I was able to help you with the dairy... Hope you can eventually find the right person to come along and help.


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## Donna R. Raybon

What milking machine set up are you using?    I ask because I am considering buying one.  I will only be milking about a dozen. 
Can you do ice cream and frozen yogurt?   I used to make frozen yogurt for those less lactose tolerant family members.  Being able to store for up to a year certainly gives you flexibility.


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## babsbag

I have a Delaval pipeline system with a clean in place wash system and a bulk tank. I bring 8 into the parlor and milk 4 and prep 4. Before I had that and was milking for home use I was using a System One from Caprine Supply. Good machine. 

I was wondering about frozen yogurt, I will have to do research on that as I have never made it,even for myself.  

I was thinking today about ice cream again because I have milk that is a  week from going out of date. We didn't do the farmer's market today due to the smoke and that hurts. But if I was doing ice cream I could take that milk and reuse it...I think. There might be some strange rules about having to pump the milk into the ice cream freezer but then again there might not be.  Right now I am freezing old milk for next year's kids but I would rather find a more practical use for it.  I am going to try making caramels too. 

There is a local lavender farm that is interested in me making cheese and ice cream for them to sell at their farm. Of course that is very seasonal but still a good outlet. This marketing stuff is hard.


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

Patti Dean did fudge at Willow Run.   Would that be something you could do?

We use CIP,  DeLavel and bulk tank with the cows.  The old bulk tank had to be hand scrubbed.  

I have been looking at a made in China on eBay.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I have a Simple Pulse milker and I've been pleased with it so far.  You can milk two at a time, but unfortunately not more than that.  Might not be what you need, but for one or two goats....


----------



## farmerjan

@babsbag  :  Joel Salatin has used interns for years also.  May have some ideas on that in one of his books?  Or call him?   Also, can't Mike just send you the name and phone # of the farm where he bought his ewe and you can just call them directly and ask?  The worst they can do is tell you to go take a hike or no, they won't discuss it with you.  I mean, you are sure far enough away that you won't be "poaching" on their available interns....


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> I wish I knew how they did the business model but the farm that we bought a ewe and our ram has a slew of interns doing all of the grunt work in their gardens and sheep handling.  There are some paid employees but most are college students.  I have no idea how you could find out how to start that.


Maybe you need to ask them!


----------



## Mike CHS

I have and got a non-response.  This was one of those that had what they wanted and weren't going to share.


----------



## babsbag

@farmerjan  I have never heard of Joel Salatin so I guess I need to do some research. It sure would be nice to have some reliable help.


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> This marketing stuff is hard.


Sure is!  But often the key to success.

Joe Salatin advocates "natural" farming, using animals for help with SS activities, etc.    A Mother Earth News advocate and supporter.  Has written books, does a good amount of conferences, etc.  MEW  speaker at many of their fairs.


----------



## farmerjan

@Mini Horses ; Although he is close here to me, Joel Salatin has some mixed followings.  Locals think he is a little off, but his ideas of natural farming and how to make the animals work  for you is basically what I also believe in.  He is into pastured beef and pork, they sell to alot of restaurants etc., and have a farm tour every year or every other year.  Has made quite a bit on the natural, wholistic marketing and yes, has written books, does alot of guest speaker spots.  If you read Acres USA he is often a featured writer in it.  But the thing is, he gets interns to do alot of the "grunt work" while learning the ropes and has contracted with some that have stayed in the area to also raise pastured beef and pork for him to market.  
One thing you might want to talk to some of the other weekly farmer market participants, and see if you can put some of your products in some of their places like the lavender farm is wanting.  Here there are a couple of cheese makers that have gotten hooked up with some vineyards/wineries, and have gotten their cheese into those outlets.  
I also don't see why milk that is getting close to expiration date wouldn't be able to be reused for ice cream or to make into cheese.  It comes from the goat directly into cooling in the bulk tank.  Then are you pasteurizing it?  And don't you pasteurize it to make ice cream and/or cheese?  Don't know if "reheating" will cause any problem.... One thing that is popular here is "drinkable yogurt" or what we used to get as "kefir".  I realize another product.... One thing it is very good for "re-innoculating" the gut tract with beneficial bacteria.  Use it for any calves that are a little scoury or have had to be on anti-biotics for anything.


----------



## Mini Horses

Yes, he is near you      I agree with much of his farming beliefs and animal uses, etc.   As to apprentices -- THAT IS PURE GENIUS.   We would all like to have "volunteers" who are dedicated to hard work and learning.   I've considered such but most have to be housed and fed....not all....  You have to be available to teach and guide.  I'm not able to do 24/7 farming of the size to support them.   He has spent years getting to this point.  Kudos!


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

frustratedearthmother said:


> I have a Simple Pulse milker and I've been pleased with it so far.  You can milk two at a time, but unfortunately not more than that.  Might not be what you need, but for one or two goats....



That would work as I won't have but at most a dozen to milk.  My hands are beginning to get stiff and I figure I better get ready to switch over to machine.


----------



## babsbag

I wouldn't have a place to house interns either, and maybe not enough work for them. At least not the kind of work they are supposed to be doing. 

I do make drinkable yogurt and it is a big seller and the stuff seems to last forever. It is fairly easy to make too. 

There is a coffee shop that wants to get milk from me and a at least one restaurant that has mentioned buying cheese. But if I am going to sell cheese to restaurants I need to have a consistent product and that is harder than I have imagined.  Sometimes the chevre is creamy like a spread and sometimes it is crumbly like you would put on a salad. I am trying to figure out why and I am pretty sure it has something to do with the amount of protein in the milk which varies with the seasons. I will be sending in milk to have the protein to fat ratio checked and then change their feed if needed. There is that science stuff again. 

Another good reason to make ice cream, I don't have to worry about curd setting...just freeze it...so much easier.


----------



## Mini Horses

At home cheese -- no science here, just observations -- I find temp & time at that temp before  drain seems to play a roll in results.   Fun, right??    let us know what you find with the protein levels, please.   And fat levels?     Not like growing a green bean


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

Stage of lactation influences texture of cheese, too.  Yep, lot of science in cheesemaking!


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

babsbag said:


> @HomeOnTheRange are you still considering mini Alpines? I am selling all of mine as it is just too hard to own multiple breeds during breeding season.


@babsbag, what is your time frame for selling your mini Alpines?


----------



## babsbag

@HomeOnTheRange  Yesterday would be good.  LOL

But seriously I don't have a time line unless someone comes along and offers me money. I have 5 does that I milk, three of them are still letting their doelings nurse even though they are 6-8 months old. I don't have a pen for weaning so they are still nursing. I am dividing  my buck pen this week so my mini will have his own pen and I am debating who and when to breed. I have 5 doelings born this year, one is too small and she is best friends with one of my Alpines (Mini Moon) so I am keeping her, but I think that the other 4 doelings are big enough to breed, but I would be breeding them to their sire. Decisions, decisions, decisions. 

They will all stay until I find them a new home and if they are still here next spring they will go right back into the milk line.  It isn't that I don't like them, it is just hard to handle one more buck and one more breed.


----------



## Devonviolet

Sorry I didnt get back to you sooner.  I have been really busy, working to keep products made, to stock my booth at farmers market.  Then in the middle of it all, my daughter had major surgery, and I had to drive to Dallas for a couple days.  Thankfully, her best friiend lives in Dallas, so she was able to stay with her for four days after she got home.

Anyway,  I don’t have any earthshaking suggestions.  I can’t consume pasturized milk, as heatig the milk kills the enzymes that help me digest the proteins.  I end up with thick phlegm in my throat, which is an allergic reaction.  So I don’t make ricotta cheese.  But, that is definitely an option, for skim milk


We add the milk to the chicken’s fermented feed, as well as the dog’s and cat’s food, twice a day.  Previously, I have poured it on the compost pile.  In the future, I am planning to post my excess skim milk on Craig’s List, aimed at pig farmers, suggesting that they could mix it with corn, to make fermented corn for their pigs.  Here, the cottage laws say that you have to tint the milk (I think) blue, and market it for animal consumption only.      BTW,  I LOVE my cream separator!!!!  

I can’t remember if you said you were aware, but to make a creamy ice cream, that doesn’t have crystals in it, there has to be some kind of “thickener” in the cream, to thicken it somewhat.  I’m not sure what you are allowed, in commercial ice cream, there in California.  But if it were me, I would likely use Guar Gum vs Xanthan Gum, as it is more natural. I think some people use gelatin in small amounts, to thicken it. But then, I’m talking off the cuff, because I don’t have time to research it.


----------



## babsbag

I suppose I could sell skimmed milk for animal feed but not really where I want to go. I should try the ricotta and see how that works but I am sure that the yield will be minimal. Maybe make low fat yogurt???

I have done the research and as much as I hate it I will be using either Guar or Xanthan gum. I am thinking that I will print up some information on them to hand out if people ask, just to overcome the fear of the unknown. Here is a really good article on ice cream stabilizers if you ever want to know all about it. 

https://www.dreamscoops.com/ice-cream-science/using-stabilizers-ice-cream/


----------



## Baymule

You can take raw skim milk and mix with water to spray it on your pasture. The bacteria in the milk are beneficial to the soil and will help the grass grow better. The ratio of milk to water is 3 gallons raw milk to 17 gallons water.


----------



## babsbag

I am sick of smoke and sick of coughing goats. I have a sick kid and she isn't responding to antibiotics. I would say that half of this years babies are coughing and even a few adults. I vaccinate my does for pneumonia and usually don't have coughing kids. I am sure that this smoke isn't helping. There are days that I wake up to an overcast morning and it is smoke, like a fog and it has been this way most every day since July 24; I am even coughing.  The latest fire is 11% contained and over 53,000 acres.  

Not sure what to do about the kids and the coughs...


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Oh babs!!! I’m SO sorry! I can’t imagine how horrible all of that smoke must be. Breathing it has to cause problems for you and the goats!! I’ll be praying!!!!


----------



## Mini Horses

Wehner Homestead said:


> Breathing it has to cause problems for you and the goats!! I’ll be praying!!!!



Absolutely!!!   2X

The constant contamination has got to cause issues with throat and lungs.  Who knows what all the contaminants are in that stuff.   Worse -- no way to get away from it.  Wow.


----------



## babsbag

Thank you. 
And the added kicker is that it affecting attendance at the Farmer's markets which is my main selling venue right now. And it is really hard on my DH to be in the smoke and we have missed three markets already due to smoke. Not a grand way to start a new business.


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

A few years back there were several fires over on TN/NC border the next county over and we had a lot of smoke.  Everybody coughed.  Nothing helped until we finally got several days of rain.  I know how you feel!


----------



## babsbag

We probably won't see rain for another 1.5 months. I am beginning to see some gunky noses now too.  The doeling seems better this morning; I did a Nuflor injection last night and also the pnuemonia vaccine. Nothing like throwing the medicine cabinet at them and hoping that something works. I hate that since I don't know what worked.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Glad she seems better!


----------



## Donna R. Raybon

that quick, probably NuFlor.  Vaccine takes three days for body to recognize and then another 14 days for body to peak in antibody production.  Glad she is better!  NuFlor has saved more than one for me!


----------



## babsbag

On my way to go get more Nuflor. I am only treating the ones that run a fever, the rest will get Bovi-sera and the vaccine. It is killed virus so I have been told that it won't do them any harm even if they do have the bug already.  I have to get this under control and pray that is stays away from my milkers; I can't treat them with drugs and milk them for the dairy.


----------



## goatgurl

sure hope the babies get better and it, whatever it is, doesn't pass on to the big girls.  just what you don't need


----------



## misfitmorgan

Hopefully it all works out for you and clears up. Those dang fires need to go already.


----------



## farmerjan

Any update on the fires/smoke and the respiratory situation with the goats?
Boy would I gladly send you a few inches of rain.


----------



## babsbag

The fires near me are either out or close to out and the air quality has improved by a bunch. Still can't see all the mountains like we do after a rain but soon. 

I still have coughing baby goats but none are sick like Moonpie and the one little one was. I am watching them closely and trying not to use drugs if I don't have to.  Three I gave the pneumonia vaccine to and they seem to be coughing less. I probably should vaccinate all the kids .


----------



## Bruce

I hope they all get back to 100% soon!


----------



## misfitmorgan

Hope all the goats come out healthy without any long term damage, glad the fires are out by you.


----------



## babsbag

The life of a dairy owner...what have I done? Here's the latest saga. 

I have been struggling with a high bacteria count in the bulk tank in spite of everything being cleaned beyond clean and I have failed two of my last 4 tests so I decided that I needed to check the Somatic Cell Counts of my goats. I realize that SCC and bacteria is not the same but I needed to start somewhere and a high SCC can be an indicator of an udder infection (bacteria).  They all look fine, milk fine, act fine, but something is driving the numbers up and I need to find it in order to stay a Grade A dairy. I bought the Porta SCC test for goats to do this at home; super easy to use. I am milking 40 goats so I decided to do the milk samples in groups of 8 and then if they were high I would just test the does from the high group(s), no reason to use all the test strips if I don't need to. Well it turns out that two of my groups did indeed test high, very high, over 300,000 / ml. which is the highest the test reports and according to the directions indicates an udder infection. So next I tested the goats in those groups individually and 4 came back with over 300,000 SCC.  Strangely enough they all have "interesting" histories. 

One had gangrene mastitis 3 years ago and lost 1/2 of her udder. She milks like a dream.
One had been very very sick two years ago with an ear infection and horrible cough, I wasn't even milking her then, she was too sick. It was Trueperella pyogenes, which is an opportunistic organism and can cause internal abscesses. I almost culled her then. Her udder is horrible, hangs like a football
One is a FF with no kids on her. Her udder is normal on one side and the other side is very small with almost no milk, but not hot or abnormal. I pulled her kids at birth and this is how she developed. The last one is just a big old Alpine that is a milking machine. There were a few years that she didn't settle and she would still come into milk. 

So I took a clean catch from those 4 does, plus two others that had "plugs" in their teats every time I milk.  The tests came back that two of the four with high SCC are shedding a large amount of bacteria; the doe that had mastitis years ago and the one with a small udder half.  One is shedding Pseudomonas aeruginosa and the other they don't know what the bacteria is and they sent it out to another lab. The other 2 with high SCC do not show any bacteria in their milk. One of the others has a very low grade staph infection in one half and I am waiting on sensitivity testing before treating. I can't buy any OTC antibiotics in CA so I have to work with my vet on this. 

The State took its official bulk tank milk sample and if there is still a problem I will not be able to sell fluid milk until I sort this out and pass three tests. I would be able to make cheese, just no Grade A products.  

The life of a dairy owner...


----------



## babsbag

Did I mention that Mia had puppies? They are 1.5 weeks old. 6 boys, 2 girls. Mia says that it is great being a mama dog living at a dairy.  Goat milk...YUM!!!!


----------



## Mini Horses

Love the pups!     Ahhhh..puppy breath & snuggles.   What mix are they?

Hope your SCC issues clear and are not major issues.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Praying for ya!
Cute pups! Congrats!


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Love the pups!!!  Look at that brindle - it's so stinkin' cute!

Hope you get your dairy issues sorted out.


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## OneFineAcre

The pups are beautiful


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## misfitmorgan

That really stinks about the abnormal goats. So do you have to get rid of those goats now or just treat them with something?

The pups are super adorable!


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## Latestarter

Grats on the pups, they're beautiful. Sorry to hear about the dairy issues. Hope you can get that all sorted out.


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## CntryBoy777

The pups are just Adorable!!.....it is a shame ya are having to deal with such in the dairy, but it sounds like ya have a direction to pursue to rectify the problem....sure hope it turns out to be a somewhat easy fix by removing the problem does from the milking lines......


----------



## babsbag

@misfitmorgan I will be culling the doe that has psuedamonius as the lab tells me it is antibiotic resistant. The one with Staph will get treated and the other one is undecided based on what she has. 

@Mini Horses  The pups are a mix of Pyr/ASD/Akbash/Ovcharka(Caucasian Shepherd Dog/Maremma.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> @misfitmorgan I will be culling the doe that has psuedamonius as the lab tells me it is antibiotic resistant. The one with Staph will get treated and the other one is undecided based on what she has.
> 
> @Mini Horses  The pups are a mix of Pyr/ASD/Akbash/Ovcharka(Caucasian Shepherd Dog/Maremma.



Sorry you have to lose one hopefully the other one has something treatable.


----------



## Mini Horses

OK-- WOW I'd have trouble remembering al those!   I'm sure it's because both mom/dad were mixes.    That's some serious LGDitis      Yeah, the brindle female my fav.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Adorable pups!  you get the milk situation straightened out!!


----------



## Bruce

misfitmorgan said:


> The pus are super adorable!


Most people don't find pus adorable 
Ah what a single missing letter can do.


Babs, sorry you are having problems with the goats but at least you have a handle on it now.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Bruce said:


> Most people don't find pus adorable
> Ah what a single missing letter can do.
> 
> 
> Babs, sorry you are having problems with the goats but at least you have a handle on it now.




I saw that and knew Bruce or LS would have something to say!


----------



## Bruce

You know us too well! Plus I beat @Baymule to it.


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## farmerjan

@babsbag  ;  Suggestion from someone who has seen about all there is to see with mastitis, high scc, udder problems, and so forth.  Nearly every dairy farmer that I have tested in over 25 years, plus my own milking experiences both with my own and milking for others, has had to cull anything that has had gangarene mastitis.  And most dairy cows only lose 1 quarter... your goats lose 50% of their udder.  And the one with the mis formed udder is another one that needs to go.  Staph can be tricky, but it can be treated.  However, it is more often the one that is considered to be persistant or chronic.   I realize that you are trying to build up...however, look at it this way.  Right now you are in danger of losing your license...getting rid of 2 should prevent that.  They are also not really pulling their weight with only having half an udder.  It is not as if these goats cost you thousands a piece and you can't get any replacements.  I realize that goat owners personalize their relationship with their goats more than most cow dairy farmers.  But, you also can raise up replacements a whole lot  faster than a dairy cow, and you have many more multiple births, which gives you increased chances to have more replacements.  
Get rid of the 2 problems, try to go after the treatment of the high cell count does.  And pay attention to the offspring.  SCC tends to run in families.  They even have it profiled in dairy cattle now and which bulls have better chances of the daughters NOT having a high cell count. 

I have a jersey that had a quarter  blow up as a bred heifer.  It came in with crap and I dried it up.  Another quarter was "light".  The next time she  freshened, the "light quarter"  came in with junk.  She is due again because she got caught by the bull, and when I was going to ship her after pulling calves, found out she was better than 6 months.   This is her last go round.  She's  not a good nurse cow but doesn't mind being hand milked.  However,  her milk never kept long in the fridge so I know she had a high scc.,  Her jersey daughter is a sweetheart, great nurse cow and very good milk.  

I know it seems hard to do, but if you are going to make this your livelihood, and you have put in more hard work than 90% of the people I know, to make this happen;  your emotions cannot get in the way of doing what you have to do to preserve your license and having a good product.


----------



## Bayleaf Meadows

If I had a dairy, I think I would follow Farmerjan's advice.  A dairy has enough issues when all is going well that culling those who could be chronic health problems would give me a little more peace of mind and better sleep. Even keeping a goat that I was attached to as a non-milking pet and not bred would weigh on me, I think.  Regardless, I am praying your dairy passes all the tests now that you have identified the sick goats.


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## babsbag

@farmerjan  Thank you for the good advice. The one doe that has 1/2 an udder is leaving this weekend. She actually milks well, raised triplets even, but you are right that she is not worth keeping when it threatens my license or the health of the rest of the herd. The one with the 1/2 that is small I am waiting on the culture for one main reason...she is polled. If she isn't contagious she can stay and I don't care if I never milk her again if she gives me polled doelings. I hate disbudding with a passion and any doe that can increase polled does in my herd gets a pass as long as they aren't "typhoid Mary". Her line does milk very well too, which of course if a big plus.  The one with Staph I would like to treat as she is just an all around good doe and I would love a daughter from her at some point. Last year she gave me triplet bucks. 

I will be culling some does this year or building a bigger dairy.    My bulk tank holds 50 gallons and my pasteurizer is only 30. I do not want to pasteurize twice a day unless I find a quicker way to cool the milk. If I am making cheese it isn't bad as it only needs to go down to 86°. But if I am bottling it needs to get down to about 45° and it just takes too long. Two batches in a day would be my undoing.  I have 17 doelings to add to the milk line next year and with the ones I already have I should be way over my goal of 30 gallons a day. I only milk once a day so production is not what some people get but I have a life so I am ok with milking a few more instead of pushing them to produce.  I also have a hard time emotionally pulling kids at birth so some of my does raise their kids which means I get less milk too; but I am ok with that.


----------



## Baymule

Bruce said:


> You know us too well! Plus I beat @Baymule to it.


Yes you beat me to it.


----------



## farmerjan

@babsbag  ;  I get the polled thing.  I hate dehorning and leave it to the vet when I do bangs vaccinations. 
In goats are they the same as cattle as far as the genetics for  polled?  If so, why not find and invest in a polled buck?  Anything we breed to our angus bulls automatically have polled calves.  Yes they carry the horned gene, but the first generation are all polled.  Maybe you can't find the right genetics in polled.  There are now several polled dairy bulls to use.  The better genetics are still in some of the older families of dairy cattle;  but there is that option.

I am not sure of the answer for the quicker cooling of the milk.  I do know that many dairies use a plate cooler here, but that cools the milk directly from the animals to the bulk tank.  There ought to be a way to incorporate that into use after the pastuerizing... it has the added benefit of pre-heating the water that goes into the water heaters, that is used in the barns and some use it to put warm water directly into a water trough for the cows.  I will have to think a bit if there is anyone doing something different.  

I also get the letting the does raise the kids and getting less milk.... but watch that they are not contributing to the bacteria.  There is a possibility of transfer even with you cleaning and sanitizing the udders.  The bacteria can move from the kids mouths, to the teat, to inside the udder, and may be a possible source.... just a thought.

I would definitely go after treating the staph mastitis and any other ones that you see, and then make decisions after that.  Also, if you get a hard to clear up case or one that is chronically up & down...when you dry off, dry treat aggressively and then re-treat after a week or two.  You may have to withold the milk from the tank a little longer... but sometimes it works best at dry off treating it .


----------



## babsbag

@farmerjan, polled genetics in goats are different as you don't always get polled, it is a 50/50 chance and even with two polled parents you won't always get polled. There is also a lot of debate on breeding polled x polled and hermaphrodites; however I have looked for a polled buck with good genetics and just haven't found one. 

I looked at plate coolers and part of the problem of using them in the fashion that I want to use them is cleaning them. I have no CIP for the processing room  so it gets complicated. Right now I have a 160 gallon chiller that pumps 37° water into the jacket of the pasteurizer but the recovery is pretty slow. The chiller sits outside and when it is 115° outside it just can't keep up. I cool the milk to about 75° with water from the well and then start using the chiller but it still struggles. We are planning on putting some more insulation around it and shade it better before next summer and hope that helps; also thinking of putting propylene glycol in the water so I can lower the temp and not have it freeze.

The lab wasn't able to get an antibiotic sensitivity for me so I am going to treat with Today and retest her. She is still milking really well and I am not quite ready to dry her off but I will keep the dry treatment in mind.


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## farmerjan

@babsbag ;  thanks for the info on the polled goats.  I do know that in cattle, the ones with the "brahma" type horn genes, longhorns, watusi, brahmas, etc.,  there is not always a suppression and horns do show up. Didn't think of that until you mentioned the chances in goats.  Are there any breeds of goats that are strictly polled, like angus in cattle?   Are any of them dairy breeds?  I just did a quick search and see where there is some concern about the offspring being hermaphrodites.... glad we don't have to deal with that in cattle although I am sure there are occasional cases, it is not from being polled.  Lots of beef cattle are polled.  Sorry that is such a complication in the goats.

Yeah, plate coolers have to have CIP in order to get them clean.  Sorry that is not an option.  I like the idea of the propylene glycol  to drop the freezing point and making the water "colder"...

Ask your vet about Pirsue - a mastitis treatment like Today but can only get from the vet.  Alot of my dairy farmers use it for hard to treat cases.  Don't know if it is gram pos or neg but they seem to have better luck with it.  We also have an over the counter one here that has either penicillin in it or gallimycin... been awhile since I used any so I can't remember but I think it is pen.  I know there is talk about the resistance of germs to pen, but if you seldom use it, it will usually do a good job of knocking something out in your animal.  It is when they are used repeatedly that it seems the "bugs" build up a resistance.  I would also try doubling the length of time treated so that it can kill anything that might even be a little resistant.  Sure it is more time out of the tank, but you can feed it to the kids instead.  Triple your witholding time to be on the safe side unless you can do an antibiotic test, like the Snap test,  for cattle milk.


----------



## Baymule

What in the world do organic dairies do to combat mastitis? Do they treat the animal and then sell it?


----------



## farmerjan

@Baymule ;  yes, in most cases, if the approved treatments that can be used in organic dairies do not work, they will use antibiotics, and then the cow is sold.  She will never be able to be "organic" again.  One farmer that I used to test, his cousin was certified organic.  He would wind up with some of the cows after they were treated and the milk was tested safe to go back in the tank.  So this farmer would take the cow, and sometimes just milk her out until her production dropped off, and it is ALWAYS the "good cows" that get mastitis, and then ship her or if she was a good cow sometimes he actually just "bought her" and kept her in his herd. 
There is a big difference in most udder treatments for witholding of milk and witholding for slaughter.  So a cow that can be milked in the tank will have residue in her meat for a longer period of time.  Organic dairies are great in theory, but what most people don't realize is that the cost to the farmer that it extolls when a good animal gets sick.  I am not against the whole organic thing;  but as I try to put it to average people who just go "nuts" over the antibiotic thing, that organic is the only way to go.... most farmers do not use it if there is an alternative that will work.  But if needed, then they do.  Don't forget, any antibiotic treatment means that lost production is lost income to the farmer.  So it is in their best interest to NOT have to use antibiotics.  
And I always say.... if your child was sick and an antibiotic would cure it , are you going to refuse it?  We as much have overused antibiotics in humans if not more.  But if that is what it takes to make a child well, why is an animal not allowed the same ????   I do not use many "drugs" on our cattle;  but there are times that they are the quickest and most efficient way to cure a problem, and get the animal back to health.  We try to breed for resistance to environmental problems,  but there are things you cannot always anticipate.

This rain, wet, and mud has become a major problem for many dairy farmers.  It seems that a great percentage of them are having cows come in fresh with mastitis.  These are cows that are kept in pastures for their dry period, not mud up to their ears, type of  lots.  You can only combat so much when the environment is conspiring to cause problems. 
I would not be certified organic for all the money in the world, yet I do believe in the basic principles.  Sometimes, I think that common sense is what most should take into consideration.  I prefer to use natural and wholistic type treatments for things, but sometimes it doesn't do what needs to be done WHEN it needs to be done.


----------



## Baymule

I totally agree. I try to not use chemicals but sometimes, organic is just not workable. The overall health of my animals comes first and if it takes a chemical wormer or antibiotics to care properly for them, then that is what I do. I prefer to keep them as chemical free as possible, but I won't let that keep me from seeing to their overall welfare.


----------



## babsbag

I feel the same even about using pesticides on plants, I try to do everything without any chemicals, be it for animal or plant. But there are times (even with being a bee keeper) that I bring out the big guns for aphid control as it is either do it or lose the entire plant and crop. 

I could never afford to go organic as organic alfalfa is off the chart expensive, if I can even find it.


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I feel the same even about using pesticides on plants, I try to do everything without any chemicals, be it for animal or plant. But there are times (even with being a bee keeper) that I bring out the big guns for aphid control as it is either do it or lose the entire plant and crop.
> 
> I could never afford to go organic as organic alfalfa is off the chart expensive, if I can even find it.



What the heck is organic alfalfa? I've never heard of such a thing.

Far as the polled genetics go I don't think it's actually linked. There is someone locally here who bred goats for about 15yrs and I talked to him said his herd ended up almost completely polled so that means they were homo dom polled. His herd when at it's largest was 25 goats so by no means a huge pool but he only ever had 2 herm goats and one had horns. He only had two left last time i was there and that was maybe 6 months ago now but he made his own "breed" Both where polled, blue eyed, medium size, nice udders and some crazy coat patterns. If I ever find another polled buck I will be trying to breed polled in.


----------



## babsbag

I have suspected that it isn't related as well, but ONE study was done and everyone jumped on the don't breed polled to polled. 

I know of one person that grows their own alfalfa and it is not sprayed and it is non-GMO. She had an organic dairy and could only do it because she grew her own hay.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

The local cow dairy that farms around us also raises all of their own alfalfa so that it is organic also.


----------



## Bayleaf Meadows

I was contacted by a farmer looking for a homozygous polled buck.  He was a longtime breeder of polled goats and said he had no problems with hermaphroditism.  I wasn't sure why he didn't have a homozygous polled buck among his herd. But polled is dominant and most people don't breed polled to polled, so that means the babies will always carry a recessive gene for horns.


----------



## farmerjan

Wehner Homestead said:


> The local cow dairy that farms around us also raises all of their own alfalfa so that it is organic also.



Many of the dairies here raise their own alfalfa, but it is by no means organic.  Certified organic does not allow for use of GMO seed except under some very special circumstances;  it cannot be fertilized with standard chemical fertilizers, it cannot be sprayed for weevils if they suddenly hit it,  it has to be raised on fields that have had no chemicals used for at least 3 years... there are alot of restrictions.  Our orchard grass hay will not meet organic standards as it does get conventional chemical fertilizers sometimes.  In fact the poultry litter we use is not from organic poultry houses so does not comply;  even though it is "just chicken s@#t and shavings, because those birds have been fed feed that may contain ( and very often DOES contain)  antibiotics, or have been water treated with antibiotics,  and the feed is not organically grown. So the manure  possibly  contains trace amounts of antibiotics in it.  Certified organic is very strict if you follow it the way it was intended to be.  Since the GOV'T got into it, there have been many "shortcuts" taken, but the only ones that get away with that are the big boys.... It also requires a ton of paperwork....


----------



## babsbag

I have people that won't buy my milk and eggs because my animals eat GMO feed. I could find and probably afford non GMO chicken feed but alfalfa is another story all together. Can't please everyone.


----------



## babsbag

The longer I milk my mini Alpines the more I like them. And they sure do stay in good body condition.  Someone please tell me that I shouldn't start the transition to minis...please, please, please convince me otherwise. I would have to keep a whole mess of kids this year.


----------



## Bruce

@babsbag You should not transition to minis.

OK, I told you. Ignore the fact that I have NO knowledge or experience for making that claim.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> I shouldn't start the transition to minis...please, please, please convince me otherwise. I would have to keep a whole mess of kids this year.


If they're working for you....why not?     Just sayin'...


----------



## Latestarter

What's having 120 goats for a year or two compared to 50-60? Think how good you'll feel 2 years hence when you sell 1/2 the herd!


----------



## OneFineAcre

We offered our barn litter with goat poop to an organic farmer.
He couldn't use our poop because we had used chemical wormers.
I can see why mini's would be a good option for a small dairy.


----------



## babsbag

My minis are staying in milk longer and look great. But if I do this it means getting a different mini buck that isn’t related and that means getting an unrelated nigi to make said buck or finding a mini to buy. I already have does from the two ND bucks that I have.  It gets complicated.  Plus I have Jumanji’s genetics to factor in too. I know that his daughters are at least A/? for casein and his granddaughters won’t neccassrily carry A at all. It would be nice to find a ND buck that is DNA tested and carries A/A or A/B. Yes. Complicated


----------



## Southern by choice

babsbag said:


> My minis are staying in milk longer and look great. But if I do this it means getting a different mini buck that isn’t related and that means getting an unrelated nigi to make said buck or finding a mini to buy. I already have does from the two ND bucks that I have.  It gets complicated.  Plus I have Jumanji’s genetics to factor in too. I know that his daughters are at least A/? for casein and his granddaughters won’t neccassrily carry A at all. It would be nice to find a ND buck that is DNA tested and carries A/A or A/B. Yes. Complicated



The advantage though is lower feed comsumption, less issues with mastitis, generally ND's and Minis have much lower SCC,

If you are looking I can help you find a mini Alpine Buck... lots of the more serious breeders do Milktest with their minis and many are doing Casein testing too.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Then you can get @Southern by choice and/or @Goat Whisperer to fly him out to you and bring me back one of those awesome LGD pups!


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## babsbag

Those pups are going to be quite the "little" LGDs. They are 17 days old and have climbed out of the kiddie pool, walking and barking and looking around and even a few growls among litter mates, not at people. They were up on all fours the day after they were born...all muscle.  Mia isn't the doting mother that my other dogs were and I wonder if this is going to add to their independence...I don't know if it works that way or not but I think that there is going to be some attitude in this litter. 

@Southern by choice I have been very happy with teat size, placement, and production with the 5 does I am milking. My ND buck came from @ragdollcatlady and he has given me some nice does. My mini buck came from a different ND sire but he also came from Ragdollcatlady so I am thinking that she knows her nigis. I don't want to buy yet another ND buck but I did contact a friend here locally that has really nice nigis and I have asked her if she would let me bring a few does over for breeding in hope of getting a buck that isn't related to any of my does. But this is a huge commitment and a major change in plans and I am honestly not sure that I am up to adding any more changes to my already incredibly complicated life. I won't need another mini buck until next year so I have some time to make the final decision; but I do need to decide if I am breeding for minis this year as that is happening NOW!!!!


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## Wehner Homestead

I vote to go for it! The goal here is to focus on Mini Manchas!!


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## ragdollcatlady

Hey @babsbag …. I see you just mentioned not getting another nigi buck but wanting other genetics... I may be getting out of nigis and my blue eyed, moonspotted buck has a fantastic udder and some stars in his paperwork.... His hocks cow in a bit, but if you have some strong legs in your girls..... I mean..... 

And thanks for the compliments... I have spent more time and effort trying to acquire the type and pedigreed nigis  that have what I want and I like to think they are improving with every breeding.


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## babsbag

Hey, what's one more buck right?  Do you have a time line for making this decision? Or can I borrow him for the next few months? If I am going to make another mini buck for next year I would need to use him on a few of my does this year and breeding season is here.

Is he unrelated to the two bucks that I have? I still have Flash, the first one. The second one I got from you is the sire to my mini buck and he is spending the winter with a friend.


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## Alaskan

babsbag said:


> The longer I milk my mini Alpines the more I like them. And they sure do stay in good body condition.  Someone please tell me that I shouldn't start the transition to minis...please, please, please convince me otherwise. I would have to keep a whole mess of kids this year.



If you like them better....  

I liked my full Saanen way better than my mini-Saanen.  ....  but that was a sample size of 2.


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## Mini Horses

If you like the mini Alpines, go for it!


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## Baymule

More goats! I know little about goats, but I’ll say go for it!!!!!


----------



## misfitmorgan

babsbag said:


> I have suspected that it isn't related as well, but ONE study was done and everyone jumped on the don't breed polled to polled.
> 
> I know of one person that grows their own alfalfa and it is not sprayed and it is non-GMO. She had an organic dairy and could only do it because she grew her own hay.



Pretty much all the non-commercial farmers here would have organic hay then, definitely all the grass hay. No one puts fertilizer on grass hay, the hay field we take our grass hay off of has not seen fertilizer in over 7yrs. Alfalfa only gets it when it is newly planted and it depends on the planting rate on if they bother or not. GMO/Non-GMO is not really a big thing up here so no idea what kind of seed they use. I know we have available non-gmo seed but i dunno if people use it here.

I loved our mini's so if you like your's i would say switch. As mentioned, less feed, less pasture, less fencing, etc with minis.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Someone I know did a polled/polled breeding (the goats were an outcross) 
Resulted in triplets. One kid had severe defects. It was a hermaphrodite, it's bladder was outside the body, and was missing a front leg. It also had heart issues.

But was it really from doing polled/polled? A fluke?


----------



## babsbag

The big drawback of changing to all minis is the transition; I would almost need another barn and another breeding area...and more dogs.    And then of course there is my standard buck and a standard doeling that I spent some serious money on (at least serious for me) and a few standard does that I just like. It is complicated decision.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Keep a few Standards around to use when you need to bring in some fresh blood. Keep your options open...


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Or can I borrow him for the next few months?


You touch it, you own it


----------



## Mini Horses

Bruce said:


> You touch it, you own it



Which may be good for all f them -- owner, borrower & goat!


----------



## ragdollcatlady

I was trying to not make a decision on him for now so yeah.... he has my favorite pedigree for now and his moms udder is to die for, looks like good attachments from the pics of her udder, excellent teats. She does well in the show ring too, so a great specimen for a nigi, and I do know that she had triplet buck kids again this year, so feeding trips at least, the last 2 kiddings is good. Of all his kids born this year, only one seemed to have similar leg issues, but her rear legs were super long and had the most angularity I think I have seen on a nigi. Have to wait to see how she grows out, and she was one of quads, so nutrition may be a factor there too (she sold already… hope her new owners send me pics when she is all grown up!)

I would love to not have to feed him for a while so yeah, we could definitely work something out. Only thing is he has big hornlike scurs. I was going to have them removed, but I decided to just band them.... planned on doing that this weekend...  Let me know.




Bruce said:


> You touch it, you own it



I like that... But friend to friend, keeping our options open for now works too!


----------



## babsbag

Removing scurs is an ugly procedure. I had a buck done years back and it was quite traumatic for both of us.  If you band them what kind of care would I need to do while is here? And as an FYI, per my vet, make sure you give him a tetanus booster. I asked her about banding scurs on Flash and that is what she told me to do.  I am more than happy to keep our options open as I am not sure how much "work" he would have here long term so if he goes back to you that could work, even if you just sell him to someone else.  I really would like to get him ASAP as I would like to have my does kid fairly close together this year...get it all over with at once kind of thing. I am willing to pay you for his services    Are you planning a trip to visit Grandma any time soon?  Is he a smelly buck in rut right now?  It is always fun to transport this time of year.  Is he easy to handle?


----------



## ragdollcatlady

As far as easy to handle... he is about 50 lbs and shy with me, so I just leash him and walk/carry him to where I need him. I would like him to be a little more friendly, but I'll take a generic 'not aggressive' anyday. He has been doing this stupid head banging thing on the plywood section of the fence, just standing there smashing his head against one spot over and over again, but I have a feeling that banding his horns will put a little damper on that sort of thing shortly. No special care required, other than keeping the band on and adding a new one every now and then to keep pressure on it. I used this stuff called alushield this year when I disbudded, its a silver colored spray , like $17.00 a bottle, but I think I like it, so I will probably spray that on there. I wasnt planning on doing anything special besides watching and waiting, myself. And Oh yeah!! all the bucks here are coming into rut! Love is in the air!!!! I can smell it! 

I wasn't planning on going up to grandmas anytime soon, Im a little unsure about the truck right now, but I can let you know if I change my mind. I would probably have to keep it just to the grandma in sacramento though. Might be too much to try and drive farther than that. 

And he isn't related to any of the other bucks you have from me, unless you go back to the ends of his pedigree, I know I saw some of the really old foundation names there, some Copper penny, Caesars villa, Kaapio acres, Promised land... But even better than that, he has several *M and +*B plus a couple of superior genetics designations and a couple GCH and one SGCH  in his pedigree. I was hoping to post a copy here for you, but my email to myself seems to be sleeping.... Here are a couple pics of him, pretty nice looking boy even though the pics aren't greatest.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Sounds like a project for @babsbag’s DH. He could meet you and get the guy so he can be put to use.


----------



## babsbag

He is good looking boy, how old is he?  

I might send my DH to visit his brother in Tulare in a few weeks. Of course he would want to schedule with his brother so that he would actually get to visit with him and not just pick up the buck. I'll let you know. Being a 50 pound buck will certainly make it easier to transport.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

I accidentally posted 2x... now they are both gone! 

Anyways, I was saying he is a year and a half, sired most of our kids this last time around, cause all those letters in his pedigree had me awfully excited! A dog crate works great for this size and your DH can grab him on his way home, Im just a block from the highway.


----------



## babsbag

We have a truck with a camper shell we can put on it, hokey as it is...held on by ratcheting straps, but it works. I sent DH to OR to pick up a doeling a few months ago. Good thing he likes to drive. I will talk to him and see if I can get him headed your way. He has only been retired for a few days and I am ready for him to take a road trip.


----------



## babsbag

ragdollcatlady said:


> Im just a block from the highway.



Which highway? Are you in Hanford?


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Yes I am, Im just a hop from the 43.


----------



## babsbag

Looks like next week DH will make the trip.  Here come some more minis.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Woo Hoo - yay for more mini's!


----------



## Wehner Homestead




----------



## Latestarter

Hey Babs... Can I loan you another shovel?  all I can say is wow...  You are a sucker for punishment... Looking forward to the continuation of this journal... Seems to me it's gonna be quite a ride!


----------



## Bruce

I think you should LS, I can still see the top of her head down in that hole 
But for real ... I admire the drive you have to start the dairy Babs!


----------



## babsbag

Just call me crazy. To be honest this may have been one of the stupidest things I have ever done, next to getting married.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Life is all about change...and fine tuning.  You're just fine tuning right now!


----------



## OneFineAcre

ragdollcatlady said:


> As far as easy to handle... he is about 50 lbs and shy with me, so I just leash him and walk/carry him to where I need him. I would like him to be a little more friendly, but I'll take a generic 'not aggressive' anyday. He has been doing this stupid head banging thing on the plywood section of the fence, just standing there smashing his head against one spot over and over again, but I have a feeling that banding his horns will put a little damper on that sort of thing shortly. No special care required, other than keeping the band on and adding a new one every now and then to keep pressure on it. I used this stuff called alushield this year when I disbudded, its a silver colored spray , like $17.00 a bottle, but I think I like it, so I will probably spray that on there. I wasnt planning on doing anything special besides watching and waiting, myself. And Oh yeah!! all the bucks here are coming into rut! Love is in the air!!!! I can smell it!
> 
> I wasn't planning on going up to grandmas anytime soon, Im a little unsure about the truck right now, but I can let you know if I change my mind. I would probably have to keep it just to the grandma in sacramento though. Might be too much to try and drive farther than that.
> 
> And he isn't related to any of the other bucks you have from me, unless you go back to the ends of his pedigree, I know I saw some of the really old foundation names there, some Copper penny, Caesars villa, Kaapio acres, Promised land... But even better than that, he has several *M and +*B plus a couple of superior genetics designations and a couple GCH and one SGCH  in his pedigree. I was hoping to post a copy here for you, but my email to myself seems to be sleeping.... Here are a couple pics of him, pretty nice looking boy even though the pics aren't greatest.
> View attachment 53026View attachment 53027




What's his name?
I think I remember when you got him.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Dutch Nickel Ladies Man aka Manny

He has only been here for a year and even though he was so young,  I used him over some of my best does cause I was so excited about him.


----------



## babsbag

3 weeks old and enjoying their first puppy food... with goat's milk of course. Living on a goat dairy has its perks.  These pups are HUGE!!!


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Awww!!!  I wish they could all come to Indiana!


----------



## Latestarter

They sure are beautiful... Congrats on them Babs.


----------



## OneFineAcre

The pups sure are cute


----------



## Devonviolet

Awww!  They are just precious!!!     I would love to have a puppy or two around here.  However, DH thinks we have enough going on, to keep us busy.


----------



## babsbag

@Devonviolet listen to DH (only this once). Puppies are a lot of work.  I realized last night that in 2 more weeks the next pen they live in is also my breeding pen for minis. OOPS. I can't put them together at 6 weeks, babies will get stepped on as goats are idiots.


----------



## Mini Horses

I love the puppies!  That one looking up just "LOOKS" so full & happy -- almost a drunk look -- and then you can see they "share" so nicely...yeah, right!  Everyone jump in!!!


----------



## babsbag

They certainly have no problem playing in their food. I have 3 big pans for them now to spread it out a little but they still stand in it and make a total mess. They will be 4 weeks old on Sunday and if mama had her way she would have them weaned already. She is not the doting mom that my other two LGDs are. It will be interesting to see if she pays any attention to them at all once they are with the goats.  She is protective when the other dogs get near them but I'm not sure if she is guarding the pups or their food.


----------



## Baymule

They are adorable. What breeds are they? You mentioned it once but I forgot.


----------



## babsbag

They are a mix 

Sire 3/4 Pyr 1/4 Toli
Dam. Toli/Caucasian Shepherd/Akbash/Maremma.


----------



## Baymule

babsbag said:


> They are a mix
> 
> Sire 3/4 Pyr 1/4 Toli
> Dam. Toli/Caucasian Shepherd/Akbash/Maremma.


If those puppies don't make guard dogs, nothing will. You got the best of breeds going there.


----------



## babsbag

They are 4 weeks old and they already bark when they hear loud noises outside of their pen. They are a very mature litter. For those of you that have seen the movie Dune or read the book I look at these pups and think of the character of Alia that was born with all the power and knowledge of a Reverend Mother...wise beyond their years.  Their eyes were open early, they were standing by day 3, walking by day 7, and eating solid food before 3 weeks. All earlier than I have seen in other large breed litters.


----------



## Latestarter

wow... Dune? where did THAT come from?


----------



## babsbag

I've read the book and seen the movie more than once and it all came back to me in a dream.


----------



## goatgurl

puppies are adorable babs.  I've got two of my litter left and the longer they are here the more I want to keep them.  keep telling myself NO,NO, NO.  
so now you are going to run the dairy, make cheese and ice cream and change over to a mini alpine herd.  I want some of what ever it is your takin' girl.  how are the youngsters doing? over the coughs?


----------



## babsbag

The coughs went away and no more got sick. I did not use the antibiotics on them as I was just watching and waiting and figured it was the smoke. I will be vaccinating all of them for pneumonia when I do the rest of the herd but it sure is good to not hear the coughs anymore. We got a little bit of rain and it sure did clear the air; it is nice to see blue sky and mountains again.

As far as what I am taking? I just figure that crazy people always have more energy and that would fit me. Tonight I made yogurt...enough yogurt to last until Jan. It keeps really well and that is a good thing as I think I bottled about 60 quarts. I had a little more milk than I thought I did. Only a crazy person would be bottling yogurt at 11:30 PM.


----------



## Hens and Roos

babsbag said:


> The coughs went away and no more got sick. I did not use the antibiotics on them as I was just watching and waiting and figured it was the smoke. I will be vaccinating all of them for pneumonia when I do the rest of the herd but it sure is good to not hear the coughs anymore. We got a little bit of rain and it sure did clear the air; it is nice to see blue sky and mountains again.
> 
> As far as what I am taking? I just figure that crazy people always have more energy and that would fit me. Tonight I made yogurt...enough yogurt to last until Jan. It keeps really well and that is a good thing as I think I bottled about 60 quarts. I had a little more milk than I thought I did. Only a crazy person would be bottling yogurt at 11:30 PM.



Glad to hear that yours turned out!  We tried making yogurt but it didn't set up like the recipe indicated it should- haven't had time to try again.


----------



## farmerjan

Yeah, I want whatever it is she is taking too!!!!! 
I sure would like to have that much energy.


----------



## goatgurl

either find out what she's taking or find out where she gets her wonder woman outfit cleaned and go pick it up before she gets there.  glad the youngsters are doing ok.  and really glad the smoke has cleared.


----------



## farmerjan




----------



## babsbag

Not wonder woman...just crazy woman. I bottled 95 quarts of yogurt last night. Yep, 95.    I am now running a special, buy any milk or cheese and get a quart of yogurt for free. 

@Hens and Roos, I do a drinkable yogurt. I have yet to find a goat milk yogurt that gets thick without adding other things, like gelatin or powdered milk. I also heat it to 180° the cool it back down and add the culture at 105°. It has a nice body but not like the stuff you eat with a spoon.


----------



## Baymule

That's a good way to promote your yogurt, get people to try it and they will be back for more.


----------



## farmerjan

A farm I used to test for got a grant and built a small processing plant to "take advantage of value added products" from the milk they produced.  They also produce a "drinkable yogurt" .  It is pretty good.  But the one thing it is great for   "sick bottle calves".  Really, it is the easiest way to get the "good bugs" back into a bottle calf's system.  It doesn't go through them like milk does and come right back out as scours.  It helps to soothe their gut tract, and they seem to be able to actually digest it better than straight milk or milk replacer.  Same idea as a person eating yogurt that is taking antibiotics.  You might promote the drinkable yogurt to people who raise babies of any kind... as a "tonic" sort of thing.


----------



## Hens and Roos

babsbag said:


> Not wonder woman...just crazy woman. I bottled 95 quarts of yogurt last night. Yep, 95.    I am now running a special, buy any milk or cheese and get a quart of yogurt for free.
> 
> @Hens and Roos, I do a drinkable yogurt. I have yet to find a goat milk yogurt that gets thick without adding other things, like gelatin or powdered milk. I also heat it to 180° the cool it back down and add the culture at 105°. It has a nice body but not like the stuff you eat with a spoon.



interesting, what culture do you use?


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I do a drinkable yogurt.


DW and DD1 prefer drinkable yogurt. Too far to get any of yours though.


----------



## Latestarter

Always FedEx...   where there's a will, there's a way.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I'm very pleased with the yogurt that I make in my instant pot. You wouldn't be able to make a batch that small for your operation but maybe you could come up with your own combination. It'll be this evening before I can link my starter and the recipe that I follow but I'll get them for you.


----------



## Mini Horses

Wehner Homestead said:


> It'll be this evening before I can link my starter and the recipe that I follow but I'll get them for you.



Is that "you" as in "all of us"?     Should be.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

@Mini Horses I'll definitely share here for the good of all!


----------



## babsbag

https://www.thecheesemaker.com/products/ABY3-Probiotic-Yogurt-Culture.html

This is the culture that I use. I am open to trying any new ones though but I do like this one, very mild and a little sweet.  

@farmerjan  Good to know about the calves. After bottling 95 quarts I may need to find another way to market it.   I fed some to my pups yesterday and they sure did enjoy it.  

I looked at the grants for value added products but they weren't accepting applications right now. I am in the process of scoping out equipment to make ice cream. I still have to figure out how to pay for it but I think that it is something I need to do.


----------



## Hens and Roos

thanks for sharing, I will be looking into it


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Haven’t had a chance to link everything. Will try to do asap


----------



## babsbag

Bottling milk at midnight tonight...anyone want to buy a dairy? I can ship it.


----------



## Latestarter

Wow Babs... and to think you signed on for this, and then went out of your way to make it happen!


----------



## Bruce

I don't think it will fit in a USPS flat rate box.


----------



## Baymule

babsbag said:


> Bottling milk at midnight tonight...anyone want to buy a dairy? I can ship it.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Just caught up on your dairy adventures.  I agree with the others -- you are indeed a Wonder Woman to have accomplished what you have.  Whenever I face a task that I don't feel like doing, I think of what all you accomplished and then I dive into the task.  Thanks for inspiring us all.  

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## babsbag

Well I’m happy to be of use.  

I am only human, honest, and there are days I want to toss in the towel and move to the city. Today is one of those as I sit in the vet emergency clinic with a sick puppy.


----------



## Latestarter

Oh no! I hope the puppy will be OK...


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Ahhhhh - hope the puppy comes through with flying colors!  What's wrong with him/her?


----------



## Baymule

Update on the puppy? Hope it is ok.


----------



## Devonviolet

babsbag said:


> Well I’m happy to be of use.
> 
> I am only human, honest, and there are days I want to toss in the towel and move to the city. Today is one of those as I sit in the vet emergency clinic with a sick puppy.


Oh dear!  I hope the puppy is okay!  How old are they now???


----------



## babsbag

The pups are 5.5 weeks old. They are having problems with loose stools, lethargy, vomiting, and fever. It started with just one pup, but now there is another one not feeling well. Have been to vet, not Parvo. They will eat a little and then 20-30 minutes later they will vomit. Stools are not liquid, more like toothpaste but pale yellow. You can tell that they don't feel good, but not sick like a Parvo puppy. They are eating Purina Puppy Chow and while I have not changed the brand they are eating from a different bag. It was not bought at the same time or from the same store, not even the same size so not likely to be the same lot. I will be changing feed tomorrow. They get goat's milk and yogurt,pasteurized. They have not been out of the center aisle of my barn, no contact with any other animals or birds except for my LGDs, no standing water, nothing to get into, no visitors, my barn shoes never leave my property and my city shoes never go in the barn. Vet gave fluids, anti-nausea meds and antibiotics but said she was treating symptoms as no idea what was wrong. They were wormed at 4 weeks and again this morning.

Mia no longer wants them to nurse, not sure why but will be cutting nails tomorrow too. If I hold her she will let them, and they vomit after nursing too so not feed related per se. I checked her for mastitis and didn't see anything. She doesn't seem to be in pain when I touch her or when they nurse. I will check her again tomorrow in the daylight. She does not act sick.

This is the boy at the vet's office waiting for his exam. Sweet little thing.


----------



## Devonviolet

What a beautiful puppy!!!    I’m sorry to hear that!  Poor babies!!!

Off the top of my head, I would put a strongish dose of ACV in their water. If it is in their gut, the good bacteria in ACV should overpower it.


----------



## Baymule

Oh poor babies! I hope you and the vet can figure out what is wrong and get them well. That pup looks so sweet.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Sure hope ya'll can get to the bottom of it!


----------



## Southern by choice

I'd be looking at giardia and crypto regardless.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Sorry the puppies are sick.
They sure are cute.


----------



## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear that they are sick  that you can figure out what is making them sick & they get better soon.


----------



## babsbag

Southern by choice said:


> I'd be looking at giardia and crypto regardless.



Unless one of the other LGDs brought it into the puppies there is not a source of contamination.  I will be taking a fecal to my normal vet today but those two bugs don't always show so not going to be a definitive answer either way. IMO they aren't sick enough for Parvo, no respiratory so not distemper, stools don't look like Parvo or cocci stools, fever is very low, 103.2.  They drink water and show interest in food which is weird for a sick puppy.  I know that they are sick but not SICK. Does that make sense? I haven't seen them with any body parts of rodents and my LGDs don't typically eat them, but that doesn't mean pups won't.  But it is either contagious or more than one puppy has been exposed. Frustrating to say the least. 

like I don't have anything else to do today...


----------



## greybeard

you have any eucalyptus trees around?


----------



## babsbag

No Eucalyptus near me.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’m praying for your babies Babs!! Man I wish you were closer. We could do the dairy thing together since I need to benefit DD2 and you’d have a built-in helper. I’d also need a couple of those pups!


----------



## babsbag

@Wehner Homestead  I would take you up on the offer in a second; help would be wonderful.


----------



## Southern by choice

Any news with pups?  Really strange as they "look" good but clearly something is wrong.


----------



## babsbag

It is going through the entire litter. The first two sick are now well, one was sick last night but is fine this morning. There are two that are sick right now, and a few that are recovering. It is frustrating as nothing fits 100%. I have them on an antibiotic and the vet says that that will negate a definitive fecal. I was going to get a sample in before starting the drugs but the pups didn't cooperate and all the samples had too much straw in them.  Someone suggested that perhaps Mia has low grade mastitis. I can run my own bacteria plates, maybe I should practice on her.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Have you visually checked her milk? How’s the dam’s temp? Poor pups.


----------



## Southern by choice

I know it stinks that it is going through but at least it is clearing up with the first ones.  Very scary.


----------



## babsbag

I wish that I knew what it is.  I will be cooking up some hamburger and rice for them tonight. 

I have checked Mia's milk and it looks fine but I have not taken her temp. She acts ok.


----------



## babsbag

Someone on FB mentioned Rotavirus. It seems like it is the only thing that fits except for the exposure part. I don't have wild animals on my property and there has been no one in the barn but me and my barn shoes don't leave our property. Tonight there are two that aren't feeling good, they all nursed and one vomited and one almost did. They are all a little lethargic, just not playing like puppies.


----------



## greybeard

babsbag said:


> Someone on FB mentioned Rotavirus


Isn't it also zoonotic?


----------



## Southern by choice

is it the same as coronavirus? Haven't seen that in like 25 or so years.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Poor babies!!


----------



## farmerjan

Rotavirus is the "intestinal" one and coronavirus is the "repiratory & intestinal " one.  Yes Rotavirus is a zoonotic one as it is very common in humans. Although said to be species specific, many cases of mutations have been recorded.   There are vaccines for cattle/calves for it. I think there is a vaccine for the coronavirus in dogs but don't remember about the rotavirus.  It is a problem in some dairies with their calves having it.  There is a chance they may have contracted it from your goats.....But no real links can be determined.  The biggest thing is to make sure they are kept hydrated and do not contract any other problems that will further compromise their immune systems. 
I know with the calves, having them in the cleanest conditions, and constantly cleaning out the pen/hutch is essential, as well as making sure they don't dehydrate. 

I am not a dog breeder, but having had 2 hogs have litters, and the piglets got it and I lost 2 litters within days, has me a little more aware of the severity of it.  Had piglets autopsied and the vet said what happens is the villi in the intestines die off and they cannot absorb the nutrition, they get diarhea, and basically starve until the intestines can "repair" themselves.  It was a horrible thing .  And I have seen it as a continual problem on some dairies.  There is one farm I will not get baby calves from as they would always get sick and die and it turns out they have a big problem with it.


----------



## Southern by choice

farmerjan said:


> Rotavirus is the "intestinal" one and coronavirus is the "repiratory & intestinal " one.  Yes Rotavirus is a zoonotic one as it is very common in humans. Although said to be species specific, many cases of mutations have been recorded.   There are vaccines for cattle/calves for it. I think there is a vaccine for the coronavirus in dogs but don't remember about the rotavirus.  It is a problem in some dairies with their calves having it.  There is a chance they may have contracted it from your goats.....But no real links can be determined.  The biggest thing is to make sure they are kept hydrated and do not contract any other problems that will further compromise their immune systems.
> I know with the calves, having them in the cleanest conditions, and constantly cleaning out the pen/hutch is essential, as well as making sure they don't dehydrate.
> 
> I am not a dog breeder, but having had 2 hogs have litters, and the piglets got it and I lost 2 litters within days, has me a little more aware of the severity of it.  Had piglets autopsied and the vet said what happens is the villi in the intestines die off and they cannot absorb the nutrition, they get diarhea, and basically starve until the intestines can "repair" themselves.  It was a horrible thing .  And I have seen it as a continual problem on some dairies.  There is one farm I will not get baby calves from as they would always get sick and die and it turns out they have a big problem with it.


good info


----------



## babsbag

Mia is sick now too, low grade fever and off her feed. She was eating grass and that was my first clue that she wasn't feeling well.   None of my goats have been sick and the pups haven't had any contact with them, but I know that I could always bring something from the field to their pen. As of tonight I have two pups that are still sick. Others seem to be recovering.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry you're dealing with this. Wish you could know definitively what it is and how to "cure" it. I would think it would be harder on the pups than an adult, but then I find I have a much more difficult time dealing with illness now than when I was younger... I hope it doesn't jump species and affect you!


----------



## Baymule

Whatever it is, I sure am glad that the pups are recovering. I wonder if they will be immune to "it" or be carriers? Sorry that Mia is sick too, poor momma and poor puppies. Big hugs to all of them-and you too.

Edited to add; this was my 10,000 post! I sure do "talk" a lot!


----------



## Southern by choice

Every night I want to call, but refrain as I know you are swamped. Pups, dairy... just all of it.
Know that we (GW and I) are thinking of you.
Sick dog/pups is one of the most stressful things to go through.  Sending hugs and more important prayers.


----------



## Devonviolet

Yes! What @Southern by choice said, X3!  My prayers are with you!!!


----------



## babsbag

All of the pups have been sick and all have recovered on their own within 24-48 hours, but one. One little guy is spending his second night at the vet's office tonight. His temp was 105, the highest of any of them. I was giving him sub-q fluids and herbal digestive support and antibiotics by mouth, which he was throwing back up. After 36 hours and no improvement, actually looking worse, off to the vet's we went. He is on an IV with dextrose, antibiotics, and anti-nausea meds. Fecal results and CBC blood panel results will be known tomorrow. Right now the vet is as stumped as I am. Their dam also ran a low fever for a day and off her feed for 2 days. Their sire, who has NO contact with the pups is also eating green grass and skipped breakfast this morning. He was picking at his food tonight. My other two adult LGDs are fine, at least for now.


----------



## Latestarter

This sucks... I hope the little guy makes it.   Very strange situation...


----------



## Devonviolet

Major dislike!  I’m so sorry to hear about your little guy!!!  I just prayed that he starts feeling better. I’m glad everyone else is feeling better.

Strange that the sire is also sick, and he has had no contat with the dam and sick pups.  Does everyone get the same feed and water???


----------



## Bruce

Wow, so strange. I hope everyone recovers AND the vet can figure it out.


----------



## Baymule

I know you will be so glad to get the results back from the tests. I hope there is something conclusive.


----------



## babsbag

The pup is home and he is the most expensive animal I have ever owned in my life. Crazy amount of money I just spent on a 10 lb ball of fur.  I have no definitive answers other than not cocci, giardia, or parasites. His white blood cell count was very low so they say Parvo, but it sure doesn't fit the rest of the litter. So I guess I will never know.


----------



## Latestarter

Sorry it cost so dearly. Happy the pup is back home and doing better? is getting well? I hope?


----------



## Devonviolet

I’m glad to hear that you brought him home. It sounds like he is on the mend. I hope this is the end of it all and your puppies start flourishing.


----------



## babsbag

He seems to be fine this morning but who wouldn't be with chicken, rice cereal, and pumpkin brought special delivery. He actually seemed to prefer the dog food, little snot. He is a little quiet compared to his siblings and his fur is not as smooth and shiny but I am sure he will catch up quickly. He was very happy to be back with his family.


----------



## Bruce

And we are happy he is back with his family!


----------



## farmerjan

Vet care is expensive, but pound for pound, it is astronomical for a pup compared to a cow!!!! Glad he is on the mend, no matter what you sell him for it will not come close to what you have in him.... but I would've done the same thing.  Did they ever figure out anything from the samples taken?


----------



## Baymule

Bless you for taking such good care of these puppies and not giving up on them.  And still no answer on what it is? How will you know what to do or not do to make sure this doesn't happen again?


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Haven't heard from you lately.  How are the puppies doing?  And are you threatened by the fire that burned Paradise?


----------



## Mike CHS

Ouri Son  in law's parents live right where the fire is at the moment and the got evacuated last today.


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> Ouri Son  in law's parents live right where the fire is at the moment and the got evacuated last today.


I hope they are ok and that they don't lose their home.


----------



## farmerjan

Am so sorry to learn of the threat to your "extended family.  Have been hearing about the fires here on the news now, so I am sure they have gotten bad.  Prayers for all concerned.  Sure wish we could send some of this cold wet miserable rain and such out your way.  We could use a month of no precip right about now.


----------



## lalabugs

Praying your family does not lose their home.

Paradise is I think an hour from her. 

The fire is horrible.  I've been keeping an eye on it.  My sister called me asking me to find any information on a fire near her.

It's an hour north of my sister. 
When my sister called me to look it up it was only 10 acres. It jumped from 10 to thousands in a couple hours.  With only a few roads leading out of paradise. It became a really bad situation fast! The wind pushed the fire rapidly.  I was updating my sister all day.  She was worried it would turn and head towards her.

Listening to the scanner was heart breaking. Hospital staff stuck in the basement after the fire approached.  People abandoning cars, running for their lives.  Police and fire fighters pulling people from their cars and putting them into Walgreens.  Fire fighters defending the building trying to save the people.  Eventually they were able to bus the people out of paradise. 

So far it's 90,000 acres burned.  6,453 homes,  260 commercial buildings have burned.

Praying for everyone. I've been through a fast moving fire.  The camp fire is far worse than the one I went through.
I pray they can get a handle on it before the winds are suppose to pick back up this weekend.


----------



## babsbag

@lalabugs  is correct, the fire is about 50 miles from me but the smoke is sure rolling in tonight. In addition to the loss of land and structures 9 people have died so far. Being a native Californian I am used to fires but this is crazy, my heart just hurts. @Mike CHS if they are in Paradise most likely their home is gone.  There is some speculation that this was caused by a downed power line as there was a reported outage in the area where the fire started about 15 minutes before the fire started. The utility company (PG&E) is already in a ton of trouble over other fires that their lines have started, I think 7 or 8 or them this year. They are being sued (of course) and the public utility commission gave them permission to raise rates to cover the law suits. How do you like that? You burn down a community and then raise their rates to cover YOUR loss.  I am not convinced that this is really all their fault though, it is sometimes just hard for man made things to stand up to 70 MPH winds, sometimes no planning is enough.  They have a new plan in place that they were going to cut power to some areas during high winds but for some reason that didn't happen...perhaps it should have. 

The pups are doing great, you would never know that they had been sick. The vet that treated them was certain it was Parvo. When I asked her why they didn't run a second Parvo test she said that they were out of them.   So when puppy came home I talked to my vet and she said that he would still be shedding the virus so I had them do the test and came back with a very very strong NEGATIVE. Puppy did not have Parvo. I will never know what they had, Cryptosporidium is a possibility, but no way to know for sure. Just glad that they are better. I heard them all barking tonight when the big dogs were on patrol, I love listening to them growing up.


----------



## Baymule

My heart goes out to those affected by the fires. California has to deal with this yearly. In 2011-2012 Texas was in drought, sometimes it looked like the whole state was on fire. But nothing like this. And certainly not every year. Babs do you have a fire escape plan? Wow. How would you even choose what/who to grab and run with?


----------



## babsbag

My fire escape plan is to stay here. We have no brush around us, the trees are all limbed up. I have cement siding and comp, roof, a 5000 gallon pool, a generator and transfer switch for the well, and a fire pump. My wild land firefighter husband tells me that we will be fine. He spent many a Nov. fighting those Santa Ana wind driven fires in So Cal so I hope that he is right. If not...I take the dogs, cats, and birds and make a run for it and leave him here to start the generator.


----------



## Mike CHS

Those fire fighters seem to know their stuff.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> a 5000 gallon pool


50,000? Even our 24' above ground pool is about 14,000.


----------



## babsbag

@Bruce  It is above ground and something like 12x16. It's tiny, just enough to get wet in.


----------



## babsbag

Mike CHS said:


> Those fire fighters seem to know their stuff.


  It is a dangerous job for sure and if you don't know your stuff you die and sometimes you die anyways. DH and I were having a discussion yesterday about the merits of staying in a car stuck in traffic while fleeing a fire and getting out and running. I voted for the running, he told me I was dead. I never worried too much about him fighting wild land fires and I was thankful he was not going into burning buildings. He was the fire engine operator so most of the time he got to stay with his engine...unless of course they put him on a helicopter and dropped him in the back country somewhere. That was a common occurrence too. I was a lot younger and a lot more naive back then too.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I'm glad the pups are better and I hope the fires stay far away from you


----------



## Bruce

Some things it is best you not know about at the time Babs.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Glad to hear you guys are OK. I was wondering about you the other day, hoping y'all were out of harms way. One of my SoCal friends is only about 50 miles from the fire down there..... California up in flames. Nothing new, but it still hurts. I will keep you in my prayers! 

I'm glad to hear that the puppies are better too.


----------



## greybeard

babsbag said:


> I am not convinced that this is really all their fault though, it is sometimes just hard for man made things to stand up to 70 MPH winds, sometimes no planning is enough. They have a new plan in place that they were going to cut power to some areas during high winds but for some reason that didn't happen...perhaps it should have.


Is it a case of the lines  and poles blowing down or trees blowing down on to the lines?

Poles and lines around here can generally handle close to 100mph for extended periods of time as long as they aren't what we call 'high lines' with long distances between the towers. Then, in high winds for a long time, the cables start 'galloping' and the results isn't pretty.

I really wish they would pass a law of some kind requiring property owners  (private, commercial and govt) to cut any tree tall enough to fall on a powerline instead of just requiring the limbs that can grow into a line be cut back, but that kind of drastic requirement would get zero traction.


----------



## greybeard

babsbag said:


> @Bruce  It is above ground and something like 12x16. It's tiny, just enough to get wet in.


5000 gallons sounds close. You can calculate it closer here


----------



## babsbag

@greybeard, I'm all for cutting trees that could fall on a line, at least in the country. It would also prevent some outages during snow storms. Ten of the fires caused by power lines last year were from trees falling on the line, one was a broken pole and one was a conductor that came apart during high winds. If the utility company met the requirements for clearing trees I don't see how it on them.


----------



## babsbag

We need to write a book..."The way goats try to die"; I'll go first.
Today while doing chores I hear one of my young doelings let out a yell, no big deal, she has probably been rammed at the feeder. She is screaming pretty loudly and all the other goats run out of the barn in a panic. Of course I am not in the barn but I make a run for it knowing that something is wrong, even my dogs are worried. I have about 50 goats in there so I don't immediately see the problem and I am searching for the one screaming and none are at the feeders but the yelling is continuing. Out in the field I see one looking like she is choking, she is kinda staggering around and I am thinking that she choked on a piece of hay and is panicking; I am thinking Heimlich maneuver. I see another little doeling standing right next to her and where one goes that other one does too...ahhh...her friend is concerned....NOPE!!! Her friend has her hind leg caught in the collar of the screaming doe and to make it worse she managed to get a twist in the collar. So the one doeling is running around the field on three legs dragging the other doe with her (and choking her) and the choking doeling is screaming which only frightens the other doeling more making her fun faster. What a mess. I have no doubt if I had been there to catch them that they both would have been dead by the end of the day, there is no way she was extricating herself. Goats are the cause of my gray hair.


----------



## Mike CHS

That was a vivid enough description that I didn't need a video to picture that one.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> We need to write a book..."The way goats try to die"; I'll go first.


They are nothing if not inventive.    Earlier this summer I was selling  a few goats.  The gentleman was here to pick them up and decided he would like one more goat.   I looked out in the pasture and see a wether that I was planning to butcher but decided I'd go ahead and sell him. 

I put down the bucket that I was carrying in the front barnyard and went out to he pasture to catch this guy.  While I'm out in the pasture one of my silly does in the barnyard noticed the bucket....stuck her head in it...and got the handle around her head.  She is in a panic running around and screaming bloody murder because she can't see and falls into the big water trough.  Now, falling in the water trough wasn't good enough - she had to flip herself upside down and get a foot hung in the fence next to the trough.  Thank goodness the man that was just there to buy some goats was close enough to save her stupid butt, lol.  Definitely would have been a tragedy if no one would have been there to rescue her.   I have a few gray hairs I can attribute to goats too....


----------



## babsbag

@frustratedearthmother  I have had them do the bucket over the head but fortunately they skipped the water trough. But I did have a doe deliver her kid right into the trough one time; Francis saved that kid.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

OH my!   They really do have a self-destruct button, lol!   Yay for Francis!


----------



## Baymule

That made me laugh out loud. I got a good picture of you chasing a screaming goat with a leg from the other goat twisted in her collar choking her. Life is never boring.


----------



## babsbag

At least the little goat with the bucket had plenty of guardians. She had been running around yelling for over an hour before I paid any attention to her, she is drama queen.  I was leaving for town and found her with the dogs taking care of her. They brought her up to the fence for me so I could get the bucket off, they can sure herd when they need to.


----------



## Baymule

I love that picture!


----------



## babsbag

I love my dogs. The blond one laying down is Sigueme, she is my oldest and about 9 years old. I can see her getting older and slowing down and it breaks my heart to know that she won't be with me forever. She is THE BEST dog ever. Good temperament and good guardian and she is my "hole in fence" detector, that is her only fault. Fortunately a good hot wire thwarts her escapee tendencies. I am trying to decide when it is time to retire her to the house. She loves my cats and my house dogs so she is a welcomed house guest.


----------



## babsbag

I need to hand out some fliers at Farmer's Markets and the local store that carries my milk to let people know that my milk will not be available for a few months and why. I am looking for opinions.

"Jumping the Moon Dairy would like to thank our loyal customers for their support during 2018, our first year in business. During the months of December through February you will not find our fluid milk on the shelves or at markets as our goats are taking a break; our cheese will still be available. Most goats breed seasonally which means that the entire herd will be out on maternity leave at about the same time and it is for their health and well-being that we give them a few months off before starting to milk them again. We will be back!!! "


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

babsbag said:


> We need to write a book..."The way goats try to die"; I'll go first





babsbag said:


> I have had them do the bucket over the head



Miss @babsbag, you don't suppose you managed to get Texas Aggie goats, did you?


----------



## babsbag

@Senile_Texas_Aggie It seems that all goats must have the same self destructive gene. _50 Ways to Leave Your Lover_ comes to mind but change it to _50 Ways to Die._


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I need to hand out some fliers at Farmer's Markets and the local store that carries my milk to let people know that my milk will not be available for a few months and why. I am looking for opinions.
> 
> "Jumping the Moon Dairy would like to thank our loyal customers for their support during 2018, our first year in business. During the months of December through February you will not find our fluid milk on the shelves or at markets as our goats are taking a break; our cheese will still be available. Most goats breed seasonally which means that the entire herd will be out on maternity leave at about the same time and it is for their health and well-being that we give them a few months off before starting to milk them again. We will be back!!! "


Reads well to me.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Are you close to any of the fires burning out in CA?  I worry about you and Miss @Ridgetop whenever I read about all of the wildfires out there.  I know CA is a big state -- I resided in Oceanside for a year and drove all over the state -- so maybe worrying about wildfires there is like you being worried about tornadoes in Texas, when Texas is a big state as well.  Still, we on BYH can't help but be worried about you folks.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## babsbag

@Senile_Texas_Aggie  Thank you for thinking about me. I am about 60 miles from this fire in No. CA. The loss of life and property is devastating, I can't imagine an entire community being gone like this...Paradise...not any more. To lose your home, your animals, hopefully not your family, and your business or your job is overwhelming beyond words. My heart breaks for them. The last big fire here was much closer to me, about 8 miles, and around 1200 homes were lost but the city itself was not touched. This fire is over 6000 homes, seriously, an entire town...GONE.  Many of the fireman, medics, and law enforcement officers lost their homes and yet they are out doing their job. How tough is that?  Looters have shown up already too. Shoot to kill is my mantra. 

Ridgetop may be a lot closer to fires in So CAl, I'm not sure what is burning down there and what isn't. Rain, rain, rain. We need rain.


----------



## Baymule

babsbag said:


> I need to hand out some fliers at Farmer's Markets and the local store that carries my milk to let people know that my milk will not be available for a few months and why. I am looking for opinions.
> 
> "Jumping the Moon Dairy would like to thank our loyal customers for their support during 2018, our first year in business. During the months of December through February you will not find our fluid milk on the shelves or at markets as our goats are taking a break; our cheese will still be available. Most goats breed seasonally which means that the entire herd will be out on maternity leave at about the same time and it is for their health and well-being that we give them a few months off before starting to milk them again. We will be back!!! "


I like it. It is to the point, well worded and explains why.


----------



## Baymule

babsbag said:


> @Senile_Texas_Aggie  Thank you for thinking about me. I am about 60 miles from this fire in No. CA. The loss of life and property is devastating, I can't imagine an entire community being gone like this...Paradise...not any more. To lose your home, your animals, hopefully not your family, and your business or your job is overwhelming beyond words. My heart breaks for them. The last big fire here was much closer to me, about 8 miles, and around 1200 homes were lost but the city itself was not touched. This fire is over 6000 homes, seriously, an entire town...GONE.  Many of the fireman, medics, and law enforcement officers lost their homes and yet they are out doing their job. How tough is that?  Looters have shown up already too. Shoot to kill is my mantra.
> 
> Ridgetop may be a lot closer to fires in So CAl, I'm not sure what is burning down there and what isn't. Rain, rain, rain. We need rain.


----------



## babsbag

Over 600 people reported missing in this fire. Over 60 confirmed dead. Cadaver dogs are hitting on targets and the handlers aren't able to find any remains.   They said that the fire was spreading the size of football field every second.


----------



## Baymule

That is beyond terrible. If people are never found, that will leave a wound on families that will never heal. It's bad enough when you know, not knowing and wondering is unbearable.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Ridgetop may be a lot closer to fires in So CAl, I'm not sure what is burning down there and what isn't.


She is about 30 miles east of the fires closest to her.


----------



## babsbag

So breeding is completed for the year. I have 50 does with known breeding dates, 3 with a range of breeding dates, 6 that are most likely bred with no dates, and  5 yearlings that might be bred and I hope that they are not. That is a total of 63 does.   Someone please take me out and shoot me now, or at least bring me a big bottle of wine. 

My baby goat raiser from last year has had some family changes and can't raise them for me this year so I am on my own.  I honestly have no clue what I will do other than sell them ASAP. 

The fun starts on Jan 29.


----------



## StarSpangledNubians

That's a lot of goats! I can't even imagine trying to do that many. That's 126 goat if all of them had twins. Do you stagger breedings?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> or at least bring me a big bottle of wine.


Bless your heart, lol.     You need a whole dang barrel!!


----------



## babsbag

StarSpangledNubians said:


> That's a lot of goats! I can't even imagine trying to do that many. That's 126 goat if all of them had twins. Do you stagger breedings?



And there will be some triplets too, guaranteed.  I stagger them because that is what they choose to do and I honestly don't have the setup to kid out more than 6 a day; I would prefer all at once as it would make milking easier for the dairy.  But it looks like I will be kidding out until the middle of May...again. Next year I hope to have half the number of goats I have this year, some hard decisions need to be made. And I am thinking of CIDRS so I can do this in a shorter time period.


----------



## Baymule

This is my favorite. Enjoy.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Someone please take me out and shoot me now, or at least bring me a big bottle of wine.


Or have a bunch of ByH friends come help with kidding


----------



## Latestarter

wow Babs...  I'm sorry I'm not closer where I could offer at the least, SOME help... I could give my goats up completely and get my goat fix from yours.


----------



## Southern by choice

crying with you. oh. my. goodness.


----------



## babsbag

Thanks for all the sympathy. It helps a little. I thought I had this taken care of like last year but my friend lost both of her parents and then her aunt that has Alzheimer's lost her home in one of our fires. That really sent her aunt into never land and she is now living in my friend's parents house and she is her aunt's caretaker. She is not the nicest patient most days and she can't be left alone at all. Stress levels are pretty high and raising kids for me just does not fit into the picture this year.    I will be selling them out the door as fast as they get on a bottle. This is also very hard on me emotionally...pulling kids is not my strong point at all. It hurts my heart to hear the does cry and most of mine are experienced does and they know what to look for.


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> Or have a bunch of ByH friends come help with kidding


  Oh how I wish.


----------



## Devonviolet

Oh how I wish I could help you out!!!  It’s just not within the realm of possibility, though.


----------



## Hens and Roos

Wow..that's a lot of goats!  Might need something stronger than wine once it's all over  Have you started advertising the upcoming kids so they can be placed as soon as ready?


----------



## Latestarter

H&R makes a great point... As busy as you are, you'll be doubly so right at the time you'll need to be selling them. Perhaps you can start taking deposits now on a 1st come, 1st served basis?


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I thought I had this taken care of like last year but my friend lost both of her parents and then her aunt that has Alzheimer's lost her home in one of our fires. That really sent her aunt into never land and she is now living in my friend's parents house and she is her aunt's caretaker. She is not the nicest patient most days and she can't be left alone at all.


That is harsh. Losing one, really bad. Losing two close together, unimaginable. Any chance she can get her aunt into an Alzheimer Care facility? No individual can do 24x7 care long term.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

I am so sorry for all the trouble you and your friend are going through.  And Mr @Bruce is right: "No individual can do 24x7 care long term."  My wife's dad passed away at 87.  Her mom was suffering from Alzheimer's.  She moved in with us, along with my wife's older sister.  The older sister provided full-time care, and my wife part-time care (my wife was working full-time at the time) and they were bot worn out after a while.  After a year we put her mom in a nursing home.

Not to add to your possible woes, but I read in the news recently that many insurers in CA may no longer offer insurance against wildfires.  Have you heard anything like that?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Baymule

Latestarter said:


> H&R makes a great point... As busy as you are, you'll be doubly so right at the time you'll need to be selling them. Perhaps you can start taking deposits now on a 1st come, 1st served basis?



This is a great idea! What about advertising for bottle feeders? Find 2-3 people to come bottle feed for you and they get paid with a baby goat!


----------



## babsbag

@Senile_Texas_Aggie  I haven't heard anything about the insurance but I did hear that some insurance companies had gone broke over the losses in these fires. I don't think that home loan lenders would be real happy about that, not sure how they would deal with that. 

My friend's parents died within 36 hours of each other. Her father had Alzheimer's as well but when her mother got cancer and they sent her home with hospice they made her father go to a care facility. He was only there for a few days and 36 hours after his wife died, he died. He was not physically ill prior...life (and death) can sure be a mystery. She has tried to find help but for some reason the county has been unable to give her any and I don't believe that her aunt has insurance or the means to pay for private help. It is tough.


----------



## babsbag

@Baymule  That isn't a bad idea. I do advertise early but I don't take deposits, that gets too complicated. Last year most of the LaManchas were spoken for prior to birth and I kept all of the Alpine doelings...not doing that this year, only keeping a few.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Any news you'd like to share?


----------



## babsbag

@Senile_Texas_Aggie LOL.... the question should be "any news that you have time to share"?  There is always news around here.  Probably the biggest is this:  We bought a bigger trailer to build a bigger processing room. One more remodel job on the horizon. I will use what I have for this year but in the meantime we will be remodeling a 10x40 office trailer with plans of moving into it next winter. I currently have an 8x30 and it's tight.  My current processing trailer will replace my office/lab/restroom trailer and that trailer will be sold. This will give me room to have some freezers and refrigerators near my dairy instead of them being in my garage. It will also get them out of the garage, which will be nice.  Of course that means installing a restroom but at this point my attitude is "whatever". I can always move the current trailer housing the restroom to another close by location and use that until the new one is built.  I don't use it anyways, it is just for code compliance. It is 100' to my house so if I need the facilities I go to my house, don't want to mess with a holding tank to empty. Life is never boring around here. 

I had a set of mini Alpine twin bucklings born a week ago, that was a total surprise. My first doe is set to kid the end of Jan. and then the fun begins again.  I am trying to get my house in order, cleaning and donating as fast as I can. I am having (or doing) a new laminate floor so all my nick-knaks and china need to be packed up too. I collect Nativity sets and I have two curio cabinets full of them plus my husband has a fire engine collection in another cabinet.  This is going to be fun. 

Mia is in heat again and living in the house/backyard. She does not do well in here at night. Fortunately I have a very secure dog run in my yard and she doesn't mind that at all but I do hear her howling/talking to the LGDs in the barn. She gets along pretty well with my house dogs and the cats which is a huge plus; I was worried about that. She is very dominant and one of my house dogs thinks that she is the dominant dog so I have to watch that. And of course I keep the food separated. Mia isn't eating much right now but I still watch that. I will be  happy when this is over; probably another week to be sure. 

Never boring.


----------



## Latestarter

Good to hear from you! Glad it isn't completely crazy (yet).


----------



## Wehner Homestead

Life seems to be a roller coaster


----------



## babsbag

And so it begins...I had a first the other night and it wasn't a good one. I lost a doe and 3 of her 4 kids. She had toxemia and I pulled out all the tricks to get her through, and we both lost. I induced labor, which took 36 long long hours. When labor finally did start she had been down for 24 hours. She delivered 2 kids, both DOA, and then labor stopped. I knew that there were more kids as I could feel them high on her right side. I took a quick break and then went "fishing". I could feel a hoof, I was in up to my elbow, and all I could get was a foot. I finally found another hoof and decided that they belonged to the same kid but no head...the headless goat, every breeders nightmare. There was no way I could reach and turn the head. I was laying on my belly, reaching for all I was worth and pushing on her abdomen from the outside trying to move the kid even an inch closer to me. It just wasn't happening. So I pulled. These kids were small, thank goodness. I got the kid out, DOA. I was wondering if it had been alive and suffocated as I was just too slow trying to pull it through the birth canal.  So in I went again and felt another kid in the same position, head back as well.  I was still up to my elbow and I just couldn't reach any farther.  I felt the kid move so I decided that I would just pull and pray.  So I grabbed a leg and inched it forward a little and found the other leg and I pulled hard and fast. Kid came out gasping but he is alive and well and living in my kitchen. The dam died later that day. What a night. 

I had another doe deliver a big single buckling last night. They are both doing fine. Four more are due this week.


----------



## Mike CHS

That was not a fun way to start but Congrats on salvaging something from a terrible situation.


----------



## Mini Horses

Sorry for the lost doe & kids.  One of those situations we all have nightmares over & then -- bam!    It's never easy.  Glad the next was uneventful -- you needed that!

Hoping the rest of your kidding goes well.  We all know it's going to be busier than most any of us will be.   Yeah, you're crazy...just so you know what you are thinking is real!


----------



## Baymule

I know you did your very best. It is so disheartening to lose babies, much less mamma too. You tried. Darn it, you gave it your all.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Really sorry for the bad start...


----------



## babsbag

I think that I made up for 10 years with no problems. I have kidded out hundreds of kids and have had to help a few that were breach or hiding a leg. I have heard about the headless goats but have never had one, it wasn't fun. And the doe wasn't pushing any more either so those kids weren't moving unless I pulled. 

For two days I had her on CMPK, propylene glycol, and slurry of oatmeal, peanut butter, probiotics and molasses. She wasn't eating and she wasn't getting up. After delivery I gave her more CMPK, calcium gluconate, Thiamine, and Banamine. It just wasn't enough.


----------



## Baymule




----------



## BlessedWithGoats

So sorry


----------



## Hens and Roos

sorry to read about your loss and rough start to your kidding season


----------



## farmerjan

Sorry you had to go through that.  Maybe it is better to get the worst out of the way and things will go better.  As you said, sometimes you get a rough time after having years of pretty smooth going.


----------



## Bruce

That is a really rough one Babs. I think you likely did well to save the one. Hopefully all remaining kiddings will go smoothly.


----------



## Latestarter

So sorry for those losses Babs... what a devastating way to start kidding season in earnest. Hope the rest all go like a breeze for you.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

So sorry about the losses 

 here's to hoping for better kiddings ahead


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

I saw this article on the Wall Street Journal web site that made me think of you and Miss @Ridgetop:
Home-insurance companies in California are canceling some policies, refusing to sell new ones in certain areas and applying for rate increases as they look to cut back on wildfire risk.​https://www.wsj.com/articles/califo...ldfire-insurance-11549803600?mod=hp_lead_pos7

Will you two be impacted badly?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## babsbag

I haven't heard anything but I definitely live in fire country. I am not sure how the mortgage holders will feel about no insurance to be found but I understand the hesitation to insure homes in the country. But the hell with fires, pardon my language. I just got 14" of snow and power was out for three days. No power means no water. I do have a wood stove and a gas range top so I was able to melt snow for water. My DH was out of town for the first two days so I was a real pioneer woman. We have a generator but it wouldn't start, the same with my chainsaw. I was snowed in, trees across the road too.  DH brought home an generator and a chainsaw that he bought on his way home, there was none to be found around here. We don't get snow like this, maybe a few inches every few years.

But that isn't the worse of it...this is what is left of my barn.  30x40 ClearSpan barn destroyed. I am not sure what I am going to do. I have kids being born daily, not good timing. Insurance may cover part of this but there is hours and hours of work in building this and I honestly not up to the task again. I am 60 years old, I don't have the energy to start over. I just can't do it.  I have never been a quitter but this really took the wind out of my sails. I have had a rough start to kidding season, then the dogs fighting, and now this.  This is a hard one.  No goats or dogs were injured, that is the only bright spot.


----------



## Mini Horses

WOW!  Bad.   You have probably never had this much snow there!   I actually have insurance coverage for "weight of snow'" damage on my house & barns  -- was cheap add on -- and we rarely get enough for his issue, although way more snow than you.   Mine was about $30 a yr extra so way affordable.  I have wood framed.

I see the V  -- any way that can be raised and used?


----------



## Bayleaf Meadows

That is so tough, Babsbag.  I was amazed at all you were accomplishing when you got this done the first time.  I am rooting for you to have the help to pull through again.


----------



## Devonviolet

Wow Babs!  I am SO SORRY! What a tough turrn of events!  I DO wish we were closer, so we could go help you.  I hear you on the utter discouragement.  You have worked so hard to get where you are, and think you have finally gotten to a point of working at a maintenance level (a point that we haven’t reached yet), and then this!  I can see why some people chuck it all in and walk away.

That is the problem, that I see, doing what we (here on BYH) do. It is relatively specialized, and if an emergency hits, we don’t have anyone who can jump in and lend a hand with goats. I’m not sure what we would do, if we had to be away for an emergency. (Although I can think of a couple of dedicated friends who might drive 45-60 minutes and give it a good ole college try.  But for the most part, most of us are on our own when tragedy hits. And then, when it comes to asking for help .. ... .. why is it so hard to actually ASK for help???     We farmers/homesteaders, are so driven and strong willed, we have the tendancy to resist asking for help.  

Do you have a local vo-tech or FFA group, that you can call, to ask for help getting your farm back to functioning?  Maybe your County Extension agent can recommend someone who can come help with the labor, to get that clear view building back up?  Are you on Facebook, that you can put out the word for some volunteer help? Do you belong to a church, with younger members, who could pitch in to get that building raised back up?  Or maybe a Go Fund Me account to help with the cost of replacing the plastic - or is it reusable? 

Our prayers will definitely be with you, sweet Babs!!!


----------



## Bruce

That would take the wind out of anyone's sails. SO much snow! We rarely get that much at one time and snow is normal here. I like @Devonviolet's suggestions. Maybe you can get some help effecting repairs. You've put so much into getting the dairy started.


----------



## babsbag

@Mini Horses, I will definitely look into the weight of snow add on. My insurance company thinks that this will be covered as I had specifically insured it so I am waiting for an appraiser. 

As far as reusing it, I probably could but I would have to take it apart and start over. I had wood pony walls on the sides and they collapsed too. I would have to rebuild that to start with, it was a pretty involved project. I had friends come to help erect it and we rented lifts twice. I don't think that I want to do this again. I am not even sure how to get it apart. The main rafters, which are about 4" vent where they connect in the center so would have to be replace or modified somehow...just too much work. 

The canopy in front of my milking parlor collapsed too, it was 20x24. I have a friend coming over today to take that apart for me while I build some feeders. 

There is a lot going on in my personal life too, this may be just the beginning of a new chapter.


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## farmerjan

I cannot imagine how difficult this is for you right now.  If there was some way I could help, I would do so.  @Devonviolet  has some good suggestions for maybe getting some help temporarily.  
There is nothing that I can say to make it better, but I know that all of us that have watched you work at this to get where you are, are pulling for you.  If there is anything that anyone can do from a distance, or even financial assistance, please    ASK.


----------



## Goat Whisperer

Oh Babs, I am still just sick over this. It’s just horrible. I’m SO thankful the animals were not injured. 

I wish I could just fly out, give you a big ol’ hug and get to work and help with anything you need. You know you are in my prayers and I think about you all the time!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Why is it that really nice, hard working, good hearted folks like you seem to get dumped on?  I know it was nature and thus not an intentional thing, but that still does not solve the problem.  I remembered reading your journal sometime last year and by the time I finished reading I was convinced that you were Wonder Woman in the flesh!  You just seemed to keep going despite just how much work there was to do.  Finally, when you thought that you could slow down and maintain what you have, this happens!  Life is just not fair sometimes.   I wish there were some way I could help.  All I can say is that I hope you find the strength to start over, or perhaps have a good idea of a new direction you want to go in.  All of us here on BYH care about you. 

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Mini Horses

If insurance covers, it will include labor to rebuild!    yes, get a contractor and sip some cold tea as you watch them labor.   is covered    If adjuster sees it as wind damaged cause, you may be ok.  

Hope the "other" things clear up for you.


----------



## Mike CHS

That is a terrible blow and hopefully insurance will make quick work of it for you.


----------



## babsbag

I appreciate all the well wishes and I know that all of you would help if you lived closer. I think that we are going to rebuild...the phoenix will rise. We will be pricing out the pieces we need to replace tomorrow and comparing it to the cost of building a different type of structure. 

I was going to spend my summer building a bigger processing trailer and now I am not sure that that will happen. We will see. Praying that the insurance will cover at least part of this.


----------



## Baymule

Big hugs. I am sorry that you had this happen. We have watched you build your dairy, jumping through flaming circus hoops to satisfy inspectors who held your future in their ballpoint pens. All your hard work will not come to naught. You definitely will rise and be better than ever.


----------



## Bruce

I hope mini is right and that your insurance will cover it. Doesn't matter that it was your labor that put it up, the insurance can pay for someone else to rebuild it. Good luck!


----------



## babsbag

I just checked my policy and it will cover snow damage...I bought the broad coverage, thank God. It looks like it is actually replacement value as well. My brain always goes into over drive with things like this. Meaning...if they pay me for installation and we do it ourselves can I use the money for something else? There is never a lack of projects, but always a lack of funds. I think I have homeowner insurance claims twice in my life and both times they paid us for the labor but we supplied it. Hopefully that will the case this time too.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

So glad you've got coverage - whew!!


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I just checked my policy and it will cover snow damage...I bought the broad coverage, thank God. It looks like it is actually replacement value as well.


 

I THINK! the company will decide what the replacement cost is and just cut a check so IF you have the time and energy you could do part of all of it yourself. If not, it gets rebuilt anyway.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I'm really sorry for the problems, but I'm glad you have the insurance.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

What a relief, Miss @babsbag, that the insurance will cover it!  When do you think you will receive the funds?  And what will you do in the mean time for shelter for the animals?  I hope it all works out for you.  You have worked so hard to get to where you are so I am glad that this didn't set you back too much.


----------



## Devonviolet

Wow!  That is certainly an answer to prayer, my friend!  I'm looking forward to following the rebuilding process & seeing the phoenix arise out of the snowy fire!


----------



## babsbag

I have an area that is about 100x60 that I had built last year to house bucks during breeding season. It has a covered area of about 10x60 that the does are now crammed into. I still need to build them some good feeders...tomorrow. I also need to install a gate in a different place for them to access to the big pasture and I need to figure out hay storage. The kidding pens are still in the old barn, they are holding up part of the collapsed barn, but I can use them, barely. I don't have my cameras anymore which is really too bad. They didn't get damaged, but they sure aren't pointing towards the pens any longer. 

I am waiting for the appraiser for the insurance. I am sure that they are very busy, I can't be the only one around here with a loss.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm really sorry to have to look forward to your rebuild.  But I have a lot of faith that you will make it happen.


----------



## Baymule

We had hurricane damage and We did the work ourselves. Saved a ton of money that got spent on improvements on the house.


----------



## babsbag

I am hoping to get enough money for labor to buy more solar panels. The adjuster wants me to find a contractor and get a price on installation. No clue where to find one of those. These are unique buildings.


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> I just checked my policy and it will cover snow damage...I bought the broad coverage, thank God. It looks like it is actually replacement value as well. My brain always goes into over drive with things like this. Meaning...if they pay me for installation and we do it ourselves can I use the money for something else?



Yes you can use $$ as you wish, even never rebuild....Unless your
mortgage co (if you have one) gets involved.  There are times when the check is written to BOTH and the lender always gets the "hold" until hey are satisfied with replacemnt.   You may or may not have this happen.  Wait until the insurance co is issueing….If not part of original mortgage, you may get lucky.

You can contact the firm from which you bought the clearspan and ask who does install for them in your area.   They normally have crews to suggest.   Get a estimate or two.   Then ALSO know what it will cost to replace the pony walls, AND any specialized equipment to reconstruct...not the tractor you own, one you will rent (get it?)  Permits, inspection fees, any damaged equipment (if you have a listed coverage for those things..pens, feeders, etc.)   Get all those figures together so nothing is forgotten, OR not priced right.

Some things will also be allowed removal costs.  Will there need to be more fill brought in?  Damaged?  Delivery/transport?  Relocate other things while doing  (not the goats -- although you MAY have coverage for some of that in the policy  )?  Pretend it isn't there and you are buying new for your planning.

Just a couple things that crossed my mind.  

ETA:  You may WANT to hire some help -- remember what gosh awful work that was??  And goats kidding, milking....help may be affordable and a blessing to your own well-being


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## babsbag

I am pretty sure that the mortgage company (FHA) will stay out of this as it wasn't even there when we had the house financed. I did talk to Farmtec about an installer and they were of no help. They said to take the installation plans to a contractor and hopefully find someone to do it. My DH has a few friends that are contractors and he is going to ask if any of them are willing to give us an estimate. Not really sure what we will build, we keep going back and forth with building a wooden barn or re-building this one. And now I am looking at a big metal carport. Time will tell.


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## Baymule

Look at all your options, then make your decision. At first you were overwhelmed, now you are dusting off the seat of your pants (from getting knocked on your A$$) getting up and ready to pile into it again. Way to go.


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## babsbag

I am considering a 30x40 carport to use for a barn. It would be much easier to put together and I am in a hurry. The downside is that it will be hotter in the summer and I have to figure out how to close in the sides...I don't want to use metal for the sides. I want something that looks "barnish" but not necessarily something that I have to paint.


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## Hens and Roos

can you install some fans in the ceiling to help with cooling?  We have 1 fan in our goat shed and that helps keep the air moving.


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## Mini Horses

I used to have temp controlled exhaust fans in my barns, one in my house now.  They only run when temps you set happen.

THEN -- the sides.   Have you asked some of your building suppliers about the types of panels they have, or can get?   Large & ready to use will sure make the project move better, faster.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I want something that looks "barnish" but not necessarily something that I have to paint.


I guess it depends on what you consider "barnish". Most of the dairy barns here have "curtains" that raise and lower depending on the temp. Hard not to call them barns 

How much rain do you get in a year? You don't HAVE to paint wood and since it would be open to the air on both sides, I think it is less likely to hold moisture and rot.


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> I guess it depends on what you consider "barnish". Most of the dairy barns here have "curtains" that raise and lower depending on the temp. Hard not to call them barns
> 
> How much rain do you get in a year? You don't HAVE to paint wood and since it would be open to the air on both sides, I think it is less likely to hold moisture and rot.



The barn runs north to south with the south being the wind and rain direction...it gets closed in. The west side gets HOT afternoon sun in the summer and sometimes driving rain in the winter so it needs to be solid too. I am thinking about adding some shuttered "windows" on the sides.  The north side stays open. Goats don't do well with closed in spaces as far as respiratory, they like to breath. 

As far as the rain... a normal year is about 35". I had redwood 2x4's for my pony wall and it wasn't painted. If I could afford it I would use redwood again but it is $$$, more so all of the time. The stuff I had used before was some decking we bought by the pallet load, lots of pallets, so I got a really good price. It is the 4x8 sheets of paneling that I am not particularly fond of. 

Today I was looking at the remnants of my barn yet again and it is just really hard to give up that design. The fans are in option, I know that they make solar exhaust fans so maybe that would work. But our temps are 110+ in the summer, sometimes for days on end and the nights might not even get below 85. That metal will be so hot that you can't even touch it. Just not sure that it is a good choice. This is not a decision that I want to get wrong. But boy oh boy was it a lot of work to build. 

Mia and Alondra got in another fight tonight. I am just sick about them.


----------



## Baymule

We have a carport. When it is raining it is very loud under the carport. Could you deck the carport with plywood before putting on the metal roof? If so, cover the deck with tar paper, then roll out radiant heat barrier or better yet, lay down the board type insulation with the radiant heat barrier already on it. We used radiant heat barrier on our sheep barn, it makes a 10 to 15 degree difference in the temperature under the barn. 

Looking at how far apart the supports are in our carport, you might have to lay down a lath support for the decking, but it sure would help keep it cool underneath.


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> Could you deck the carport with plywood before putting on the metal roof? If so, cover the deck with tar paper, then roll out radiant heat barrier or better yet, lay down the board type insulation with the radiant heat barrier already on it. We used radiant heat barrier on our sheep barn, it makes a 10 to 15 degree difference in the temperature under the barn.


Interesting.  Great minds must think alike!   I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## Baymule

Devonviolet said:


> Interesting.  Great minds must think alike!   I was thinking the same thing.


That's why we are such close friends! I don't know about the great mind though.…..LOL maybe yours is great


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## Devonviolet

Baymule said:


> That's why we are such close friends! I don't know about the great mind though.…..LOL maybe yours is great


----------



## babsbag

I think that if I was going to do the plywood and tar paper I would just build the entire thing out of wood, which I have thought about too. We have the skills to do it just about anyway I decide but I am trying to make it easy and not spend a fortune. Yes, the metal roof would be noisy, thank you for the reminder.


----------



## Mike CHS

Something to thing about maybe -  Our shop and our soon to be add-on used engineered metal trusses which actually came in under the stick built estimate when we were doing our planning.


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## Mini Horses

Reflective paint on roof?

https://www.amazon.com/HEAT-BLOCK-R...ocphy=9003887&hvtargid=pla-580615814145&psc=1




ETA:  Are any of the pony walls salvageable?


----------



## babsbag

I think that all of the pony walls are ok. I don't even think that the 4x4's broke, the soil was just wet beyond belief and  the outward force just pushed them over...I think. Won't know for sure until we take it apart.  If we rebuild it there will be 2000 lb blocks behind it and it will never fall over again.


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> I think that all of the pony walls are ok



Just thinking you could use them along with the carport and save some $$$.    I'm tight!


----------



## babsbag

I'm tight too.  I would LOVE to save enough money on this rebuild to buy some more solar panels. The cost of electrify for the dairy is killing me.

We are looking at literally raising the current barn. Anyone have some ideas on how to lift the center of this beast? It needs to go from ground level to about 17'.  I wish I could rent a crane but getting one into the area might be a challenge.


----------



## farmerjan

House jacks inside?  I am not a very good carpenter type person... but I remember years ago my family raised the inside roof on a building with house jacks inside.  Then they pulled the walls back in with cables that went through the walls to plates outside.  I realize you can't do that with yours, but would a framework of some sort inside to support the pipework, be possible?  Because it was all wood, they did it in stages, but think you could do yours faster?


----------



## Bruce

It would be a slow process with house jacks, their full down to full up distance isn't very great but it would be possible. You would have to have enough cribbing to keep increasing the height of the jack as it hits it's max "throw". 

I assume we are talking about this:






Are the pipes bent or only down because the pony walls collapsed outward? If the latter, could you raise it by lifting the longitudinal pipes at the outer ends or would that just cause them to bend in the middle of the structure with the weight of the laterals and fabric? If that isn't likely to happen, perhaps the bucket on a tractor, one on each end, could get it up a fair distance?


----------



## babsbag




----------



## babsbag

The center joint of each rafter is bent quite badly. We would cut it and put a sleeve over it. In hindsight there never should have been a joint there in the first place...bad design IMO.  Thinking about raising it is probably just a dream and taking it down and starting over is most likely the logical thing to do. But all those screws....and asking my friends to help again...guess I will find out who my friends are...LOL


----------



## Bruce

Unfortunately I think you are right, no real way to fix the rafters without taking it apart. But .... if you mark all the fittings with a permanent marker, straight line from the fitting to the pipe you should be able to find the screw holes easily and it won't be AS hard as when you originally put it together.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

I just saw all the damage last night as I was catching up on the thread. I am so sorry @babsbag ! So frustrating! I hope the insurance comes through quickly so you can get on with whichever remedy you choose.

I can't even build functioning fences, I am amazed you were able to get that big of a span up in the first place. As grateful as I am for all the rain here in my valley, it is frustrating having weather that we aren't used to. My normally adequate shelters, just aren't cutting it right now.


----------



## babsbag

Thanks @ragdollcatlady . This weather has been crazy for us "born in the sun" kind of gals, and it looks like we are in for another round this coming week. Shouldn't be snow this time but rain, rain, and more rain. I have 13 does due in the next 5 days. Lord, take me now.  I thought I was cramped before with 6 kidding pens...now I have three.


----------



## babsbag

@Bruce, that is a really good idea. There are some pieces that we have to replace but I can tell you that not making all of the cables that went across it will be a life saver. My hands hurt for days after assembling those things. I keep thinking too that there has to be a better tool for driving these metal self taping screws than a drill with a simple driver. There must be one like a drywall screw driver where you just push and it drives. I'll have to look into that.

If the insurance comes through as it should we might just buy an entire new kit and take the parts that we need and use them and then build another one of these with the salvaged parts on the pasture where the goats spend their summer days. I would love to have a big structure like this for feeding big bales when the weather is nice. The ground is level down there too, piece of cake to build it there.


----------



## Bruce

I know self tapping screws are supposed to be just that but I can't say I've ever found it easy to get them started. They either want to wander across the surface (especially if it is curved) or in thick metal start really hard. If I have to do more than a couple, I bring both battery drills, one with a drill bit and one with a driver bit. Even a predrilled hole half the size of the screw shank will get the screw started quite easily.


----------



## babsbag

I just put together a Harbor Freight carport for hay storage and decided to screw all of the pieces together. Self tapping screws are an oxymoron.  Makita does make a tool that has a hex head tip that operates like my drywall screw driver...push technology. I might check it out and see if it is easier than just the nut driver tip.  We do have two drills but when working on a ladder it gets a bit more complicated. I can't believe that I am even considering building one of these barns again.

Anyone want to buy a dairy?  It's on trailers so can be delivered.


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> Anyone want to buy a dairy? It's on trailers so can be delivered.



   Nice.  Sense of humor helps  -- of course, some may be actual "real" offer.  Stress relief   

When will the insurance give you $$ so you can move?


----------



## Baymule

Texas is nice this time of year.... maybe not tonight, it's 24*


----------



## babsbag

Mud, mud, and more mud. 12 kids born here in the last 24 hours and most of them were a few days early. There are still 4 does over day 150 and 2 more that will be at day 150 tomorrow. At least it isn't freezing cold, wet...yes, but about 60 during the day.


----------



## Baymule

And another rain storm is headed to Southern California, don’t know if you will get any of that. It was just on the news that there is mandatory evacuation in burned areas, fear of mudslides. Hope it quits and you can dry out.


----------



## babsbag

19 kids born here in the last 3 days. This has been the year for triplets. Raining...of course.


----------



## Baymule

I hope the rain at least lets up on you.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Oh man.... hope it passes quickly!


----------



## babsbag

What is left of my barn is a sopping wet mess. I had to cut slits in the cover to keep the rain for causing puddles in the cover and adding more weight to the already compromised frame so now it drips inside the barn. We had over an inch of rain last night and it is horrible out there. I will by buying many many many bales of straw today in hopes of making it a little more comfortable for the poor goats. I haven't even started milking as the goats refuse to come out in the rain to wait their turn, not that I blame them.  Mother Nature needs to straighten up and fly right. I'm done...as is most of America right about now.


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I can’t like your post. I’m totally agree though. Temps are 30 degrees below average for here.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> Mother Nature needs to straighten up and fly right. I'm done...as is most of America right about now.


X a gazillion!


----------



## babsbag

I have officially lost track...about 23 kids born here in the last 3 days. I am to the point where I am dipping cords and not even bothering to check the sex....yup, it's a goat. 

Mia and Alondra fight and I mean fight. This started about 3 weeks ago and I brought Mia to the house for a few days. Took her back to the barn and it was good for about a week and then they did it again. Mia is back in the house. Today Mia followed me to the barn and in my haste to get to a doe that was kidding I let her in the field and within 10 seconds they were fighting. So Mia is back in the house. I bring her inside as she is a little more mellow with the cats. I don't know what to do. It absolutely kills me to think of getting rid of Alondra or Mia but I think it will have to be Alondra as Mia is mine...all mine. I could try to put them in separate pens but that would mean that one of them lives with the bucks which also means no place to feed them and no real contact with me. I just can't do that to either one of them as they are both very people oriented. I wish I had a neighbor that needed an LGD.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

So sorry they're being bitches in every sense of the word.  Wish I had words of wisdom for you but I'm clueless... Hope you can figure it out or find a good place for Alondra...


----------



## babsbag

They are both such good dogs. No barking, no challenging fences, no chasing stock (maybe chickens...). And they both love me...that is what makes it so hard.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

That really is a heartbreaker... I know how hard it would be to have to give one up.


----------



## Bruce

Sorry but I can't volunteer a home for Alondra. Hope something works out.


----------



## farmerjan

Spaying?   I realize that some members do not consider that an option.... but it might solve some of the  "bitchiness".


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’ve read a lot about intact females being harder to keep together when it comes to LGDs compared to intact males. 

I’m sure you’ve talked to SBC. I’d be curious to see what she says.


----------



## babsbag

Most of what I have read says that spaying at this age won't help and that once they hate each other they won't forget. This last time was an instant fight the minute they were together so I think that they are correct about them not forgetting. 

This too shall pass one way or another. I don't mind having Mia in the house, but I really could use her in the field, especially since the barn collapsed and I have goats all over the place.  If I rehome one of them I may have to get another male and get it neutered...young.


----------



## Baymule

My female GP and a female (spayed) Aussie hated each other to the Aussie's dying day. The Aussie was a house dog, *because of that hatred) but they did tangle a few times. It was easier to keep them apart as they weren't both working dogs. But I understand about their undying hatred.


----------



## babsbag

A young man in Central CA had his entire herd of show goats stolen. Four have been recovered, they were dumped about 30 minutes from his home, but his milkers and kids are still missing. I don't know how to share a face book link so I am sharing his mom's FB page hoping that everyone will plaster it all over FB and lets see if we can bring these goats home. 

https://www.facebook.com/kristy.pic...9OcPTHI9jkhuQmb7g7RsiRO57Zn5qYnHIu-_c&fref=nf


----------



## Southern by choice

Wehner Homestead said:


> I’ve read a lot about intact females being harder to keep together when it comes to LGDs compared to intact males.
> 
> I’m sure you’ve talked to SBC. I’d be curious to see what she says.


 I've told her for years females don't work out together-there will "come a time".
Spaying doesn't help... all the above.
Babs is stubborn   I wish I could take Alondra but I can't.



babsbag said:


> A young man in Central CA had his entire herd of show goats stolen. Four have been recovered, they were dumped about 30 minutes from his home, but his milkers and kids are still missing. I don't know how to share a face book link so I am sharing his mom's FB page hoping that everyone will plaster it all over FB and lets see if we can bring these goats home.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/kristy.pic...9OcPTHI9jkhuQmb7g7RsiRO57Zn5qYnHIu-_c&fref=nf



Yeah 4 they found someone had tossed them and they were running down the highway. They belong to a 14 yr old 4H'r that LOVES his goats!
Dispicable what people do. I wonder if it is one of those groups that want to "free" the milkers from such "abuse".


----------



## B&B Happy goats

babsbag said:


> I am considering a 30x40 carport to use for a barn. It would be much easier to put together and I am in a hurry. The downside is that it will be hotter in the summer and I have to figure out how to close in the sides...I don't want to use metal for the sides. I want something that looks "barnish" but not necessarily something that I have to paint.


That is what we used for our goat house...chose a white metal roof to deflect the hot floroda sun


----------



## B&B Happy goats




----------



## B&B Happy goats

it was cheap, and we used plywood over pt framing for sides...just a idea


----------



## babsbag

One of the problems with a carport is that my ground is not level, there is at least 2' difference from one corner of the barn to the other corner. The last one was built on a pony wall that we built level and then the fabric structure was built on the wall. I would have to buy custom legs for the carport and we would have to install it ourselves as they won't do a custom install. I also need it tall, about 14' in the front so that it will marry up to a hay storage structure that did not fall down in the snow.  I am concerned about the heat, but it gets hot where you are too so maybe I am worrying too much. The summers here are way over 100° for days on end and often the nights don't get below 80°. I just don't want to regret my decision.


----------



## babsbag

Southern by choice said:


> I've told her for years females don't work out together-there will "come a time".
> Spaying doesn't help... all the above.
> Babs is stubborn   I wish I could take Alondra but I can't.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah 4 they found someone had tossed them and they were running down the highway. They belong to a 14 yr old 4H'r that LOVES his goats!
> Dispicable what people do. I wonder if it is one of those groups that want to "free" the milkers from such "abuse".



I wonder the same thing about who took them. There have been quite a few thefts of high end milk goats in that county in the last few months so I really question the intent. 

I wish you could take Alondra too. I won't let her go just anywhere. She is sweetheart of a dog and both Mia and Alondra get along with my old girl. Sigueme just looks at them and they back down. Love that dog.  Do you think it is the age difference that makes it work, or just luck?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

babsbag said:


> One of the problems with a carport is that my ground is not level, there is at least 2' difference from one corner of the barn to the other corner. The last one was built on a pony wall that we built level and then the fabric structure was built on the wall. I would have to buy custom legs for the carport and we would have to install it ourselves as they won't do a custom install. I also need it tall, about 14' in the front so that it will marry up to a hay storage structure that did not fall down in the snow.  I am concerned about the heat, but it gets hot where you are too so maybe I am worrying too much. The summers here are way over 100° for days on end and often the nights don't get below 80°. I just don't want to regret my decision.



Not trying to convince  you into anything....we had to level the area, they had lots of heights and widths available,  the structure is not like a flimsy carport, the metal supports and frame are 4 inch tubular  and it is hurricane  tied down, the install was included in the price....they had it up and roofed in maby 3 hours, i thought about having the inside of the roof sprayed with spray foam insulation...but found i just don't  need it.....best of luck to you in finding the building that fits your needs...it is alot to consider with your busy operation


----------



## babsbag

@B&B Happy goats  I honestly appreciate all ideas and all experiences. The barn I had was 30x40 so it would take us a few "hours" to put it together for sure. I never thought about spraying the inside roof with foam... I was looking at the carport type structures last week and now you have me looking again...a women's prerogative to change her mind,  right?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

babsbag said:


> @B&B Happy goats  I honestly appreciate all ideas and all experiences. The barn I had was 30x40 so it would take us a few "hours" to put it together for sure. I never thought about spraying the inside roof with foam... I was looking at the carport type structures last week and now you have me looking again...a women's prerogative to change her mind,  right?



Always........ Its a law...i think


----------



## babsbag

I am going to have to find Alondra a home. She and Mia got into a fight, this time through the stock panel fence. They HATE each other with a passion and if they ever got together I know that it would end in one of them being killed. I don't want to take that risk. I have never re-homed a dog and I feel like a total failure, and I am so sad. I just don't know how to say goodbye.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

You're not a failure. I'm so sorry they're not getting along and you have to rehome Alondra. Please don't beat yourself up though.


----------



## Mike CHS

I can emphasize.  Sometime it doesn't matter how well you planned.


----------



## B&B Happy goats




----------



## Bruce

Not your fault!!!!! You didn't put the brain in each dog, you have to work with what they have. Sometimes you just can't fix a feud. Don't even know what is going on in each one's head that makes them want to fight.
I hope you can find her a good home quickly.


----------



## Baymule

I hope you find her a good home.


----------



## babsbag

Thanks everyone, it is just so hard. I own 2 border collie sisters that have always been great together and I owned other pairs of females through the years but they have always been spayed, or at least one of them has been. I was warned and I should have listened.  Now the dog is the loser.  I will be picky and she can always come home. The person needs to know LGDs and they need to understand dogs in general. I would prefer that they have another dog too and it needs to be a male. She has never been a lone dog. She isn't the most assertive dog in the pack and she needs a friend. She has also never been around children and she is dog food aggressive, but not with me. Yes...I'm picky. I have to get it right, for her sake.


----------



## Southern by choice




----------



## babsbag

If anyone is looking for a great trained LGD I might be able to meet you somewhere. I just want her to go to a good home. 

This is what I posted on FB today. 

I have a 3 year old Anatolian that needs a new home. She fights with my other female LGD and unfortunately it will be to the death if they ever get on the same side of the fence again. I have chosen to re-home her as she likes people, the other one is more "mine" . This breaks my heart but I don't see another choice.

Alondra is a great LGD, she lives with about 60 goats including kids and she is perfect. I have had her since she was 5 months old and she never chased a goat. She respects fences, but I run hot wire and she knows it and is terrified of it. She doesn't bark needlessly. She loves people and has never shown aggression. She gets along great with my old female LGD and my male. She also gets along with my female house dogs and my cats. She isn't spayed and had a litter of pups a year ago. She will ride in my car and is comfortable in the house when needed, she stays in the house when she is in heat. She has had Rattlesnake aversion training.

Now the other side...she will go out an open gate if she has a chance. She has not been around any poultry. She has never been trained with any commands. She is likely to jump on you to say hello, she will "goose" you. She has never worked or lived without another dog. She does resource guard and will bury her food for later, but she lets me take her food. She has been trained to go through the top rung of pipe gates to get into some fields; I put stock panel on them if I don't want her to use them as a passage. She has never been around children. She may carry the gene for Entropion (4 of her 7 puppies had to have eye surgery). She does like afterbirth ...a lot. She digs holes to bury things. She likes to stand with her front feet in the water trough in the summer.

My requirements for her new home... There will be a contract and she will come back to me if there are any problems. I will not have her sent from home to home. She needs another LGD to pair with, a male, younger or older, or one in the near future.  No females in the field. Since she has never been around children a home with no kids might be best. (she does jump on people), but that is up for discussion. The farm needs good fences. She needs to have human contact daily, the more the better, she is a lover. The new owner needs to be familiar with LGDs and understand the breed. Don't expect her to be chicken trained, but not saying that she can't learn but also not saying that she can.

She is not a rescue and I am not looking for foster home. She is a great dog and deserves to have a great home. She is loved and will be missed horribly. I have never given up an adult dog or cat, this is not easy for me and I will be picky. I am in No. CA. Two hours north of Sacramento. I will not ship her. Re-homing fee??? She is worth more than whatever anyone would pay. The purpose of a re-homing fee is to make sure that she is wanted and not a throw away dog.


----------



## Southern by choice

Oh Babs. I am so heartbroken. I wish I was already moved because you know she'd be here, with out a doubt.
I do know how agonizing this.


----------



## HomeOnTheRange

Wow, what a beautiful creature!  I know you will find the right home for her.


----------



## Goat Whisperer




----------



## bethh

She is so pretty.  Hope you are able to find the right spot for her.


----------



## babsbag

HomeOnTheRange said:


> Wow, what a beautiful creature!  I know you will find the right home for her.



I think that she would like the high desert of New Mexico... Along with some mini Alpines.


----------



## Bruce

I bet she would too


----------



## babsbag

My husband says that he will even deliver.  LOL


----------



## Bruce

This deal is getting pretty darn good @HomeOnTheRange


----------



## babsbag

I am going to have a bunch of minis born here in the next few weeks.


----------



## Baymule

Babs I hope you find her the right home. Maybe she would really like the high desert of New Mexico. It sure would be worth a try.....and delivery too!


----------



## babsbag

I would love for her to go to a BYH member.


----------



## babsbag

I was talking with two people that train LGDs and they said at this point my only choice is to separate them forever or re-home one. They both said that I should have allowed them to fight it out the first time and that that would have been the end of it. Of course I could throw them back together and let them duke it out but I have no doubt that that would end in death for one of them. They said that separating them as I have as actually made it worse and made them frustrated. A long time ago I had three female dogs, two were spayed. These dogs never fought, they appeared to be best of friends. We went away for the weekend and left the dogs in a run, it was 10x20 so a pretty good size for three dogs, and we had done it before.  We came home to a dead dog.  It would take a stronger person than me to put Alondra and Mia together to let them "fight it out".


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm with you on not putting them back together and I do hope you can work it out for such a great girl.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Probably a silly question - but would it work to muzzle them and then let them "fight?"   The muzzles would stop any actual wounds, but the stronger dog could still end up putting the other on the ground?  Just throwing it out there....no idea if it's a good idea or not, lol. 

I'm just so sorry that you have to make that tough decision.


----------



## babsbag

@frustratedearthmother Now that is in interesting question; not silly at all.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I've let mine fight it out before,
They still have to be kept separate


----------



## babsbag

Bummer


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Bummer


??


----------



## babsbag

That @OneFineAcre dogs still fight even after fighting it out.


----------



## Bruce

Got it.


----------



## babsbag

I don't post much here about kiddings as I am just over run with them and it would only be tiresome. But to date I have had 79 kids born here. 41 bucks and 38 does. Only 19 or 20 more to freshen. We will break 100 kids easily.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Holy Cow - dat's a lotta babies!  I am in awe of what you do!


----------



## babsbag

frustratedearthmother said:


> Holy Cow - dat's a lotta babies!  I am in awe of what you do!



I am not worthy. With the mud, the barn, the dogs, the hard kidding this year, and life I am truly ready to throw in the towel. It has just been too much too fast, I still cry every time I think of not ever seeing my precious Alondra again, that was truly the proverbial straw. She is still here but I know that it is coming. My diary is portable...anybody want to buy one?... just let me know. 

As far as the kid crop...I have a good friend that is raising them for me and selling them ASAP. I could never do it without her. I am also selling goats, my goal is to be down to 25 seasoned milkers plus some first fresheners that are Jumanji kids that I might not even milk this year, depends on their udders and my time.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> But to date I have had 79 kids born here. 41 bucks and 38 does. Only 19 or 20 more to freshen. We will break 100 kids easily.


Oh my that is a lot of kids!!!

 I know your heart is hurting with the devastation from the snow and having to part with Alondra. I hope some time will ease that pain somewhat. I wish I could take Alondra but that isn't in the cards.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> With the mud, the barn, the dogs, the hard kidding this year, and life I am truly ready to throw in the towel. It has just been too much too fast, I still cry every time I think of not ever seeing my precious Alondra again


I can only imagine the stress of what you're dealing with.  You may not see it now but it is truly a testament to your strength and resilience.  

Alondra leaving is nothing but hard.  It will leave a hole in your heart but knowing  it's what's best for her and Mia will hopefully ease the pain somewhat.

Your friend must be pretty awesome too!


----------



## OneFineAcre

My goodness.  That sounds like a ton of work.


----------



## babsbag

I think that I found Alondra a good home but oh my gosh it hurts. I wish I had a parallel life where I could take her to live with the "other me".


----------



## CntryBoy777




----------



## Southern by choice

babsbag said:


> I should have allowed them to fight it out the first time and that that would have been the end of it.



This is not true. More often then not it will get increasingly worse and given the nature of these dogs it is likely they would fight to the death. I can't stand it when people suggest this. First it is likely that there will be a death, second the one that survives will have extensive medical bills. What ass would do this?
I'm not talking about a tif but full on fight is different.
We went through the Callie/Eliza thing... Callie was really gracious and never sunk her teeth into Eliza, but that third time Eliza pulled a cheap shot... Callie never forgot it and I knew if they ever got into Callie would kill her. Eliza just wanted the top spot but wasn't capable.
From then on if Eliza was on a fence adjacent Callie would lower her head and growl. Callie got along with all dogs in every field.
No way could I stand back and watch my dog get killed. 
Trainers my butt!


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> I think that I found Alondra a good home but oh my gosh it hurts. I wish I had a parallel life where I could take her to live with the "other me".


Wouldn't that be nice! Is the potential home with anyone we know?


----------



## babsbag

Bruce said:


> Wouldn't that be nice! Is the potential home with anyone we know?



Unfortunately it is not a BYH member. The lady is coming to get her in the morning. Alondra will be living with about 70 goats and 3 mini donkeys on 100 acres. Lots of room to roam. There is another LGD, a puppy about 4 months old, a male so she will have a friend. The lady works from home and even the goats have a lot of room they are near the house most of the time. It seems that this will work out nicely but doesn't make it much easier on me.


----------



## Devonviolet

Oh Sweet Barb, my heart breaks for you!  

I can only imagine how difficult this must be!  It makes me want to cry, just thinking about having to give up one of our LGDs.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats




----------



## farmerjan

I know you will miss her, but the reduction in stress levels will help.  And maybe in the future you can find another that will "fit" into your operation. 
How is the "rebuild" situation coming?


----------



## babsbag

I got the insurance money but waiting for some dry weather. It has been so wet and muddy, it is truly a mess. I need to build more shelter for the goats so I can fence the goats out of the collapsed barn so we can take it down. It seems that they don't mind hanging out in a barn with a very low roof at all. 

I will admit, I am having a rough time with all of this.  Had 6 kids born here yesterday too...Alondra helped me clean the quads, I am going to miss that girl. Took her to the vet this morning and got her chipped and updated her rabies shot.  She is laying here on the floor enjoying her inside time.


----------



## Mike CHS

Words don't make that kind of hurt go away but I'll say I feel for you anyway.  I know it isn't getting any easier as the time gets closer.


----------



## B&B Happy goats




----------



## babsbag

Alondra is still here. I guess that God has another plan for her.   The lady never called me to tell me she was starting her trip (3 hour drive) so I contacted her as I wanted to go start milking. She said she wasn't coming today after all...too far of a drive.  OK...when was she going to tell me? She is not getting my girl.  Plus I wanted to get Alondra chipped before sending her off just in case, you never know what might happen on the way home. I had asked her to wait a few days so I could get that done and her reply was, "well if you don't think that she is going to settle in then maybe I should just keep looking for a dog".  Well, maybe you should.   I got Alondra chipped this morning and got her rabies updated too, but she is still here.  I just sent Mia back to barn and now Alondra is getting her house time for a few days. Silly girls.


----------



## Devonviolet

Wise move. I wouldn't trust her with Alondra either. Her actions screamed irresponsible!  You want a responsible person to take her. Not a flake.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Good decision!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

She isn't  the right partner for your girl....nor worthy of her...


----------



## Bruce

That is too bad, the animal situation sounded really good for a trained LGD. Goats to watch over, a pup to educate. But the lady does sound a bit flaky; 3 hours is too long a drive? Did she not think about that before? And who WOULDN'T drive that relatively short distance for a proven dog? 

I guess your goats don't need as much headroom as you do, I think that actually makes it easier for you, no huge pressure to get that barn down and repaired yesterday so the goats have somewhere to stay. 

I feel for you, I wish I could do something useful


----------



## Baymule

You have a lot on you right now. It won't make any of it go away, but have you considered a hot soaking bath and a glass.....make that a bottle of wine?


----------



## babsbag

Up to 90 kids...breaking 100 will be a snap.  It has been a busy 2 days around here, tomorrow I am going to take most of the kids to my friend to raise. Did I mention how hard it is for me to pull these babies from their mamas? I have does looking at every new kid born  hoping that it is hers and they have been doing this for weeks. Next year I have to find another way to do this. I'm a softie. 

@Baymule  That bottle of wine sounds like a good idea...if only I had time.


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> Did I mention how hard it is for me to pull these babies from their mamas? I have does looking at every new kid born hoping that it is hers and they have been doing this for weeks. Next year I have to find another way to do this. I'm a softie.



As a dairy -- STRICTLY a dairy -- this is what has to be done.  I know how hard it is with only mine, even when keeping prior year doelings they stay together as a family unit.  It must be more than "hard" for those you have had for several seasons.   I've had to wean animals for years, goats, mini horses & donkeys,  it's like your own kids! I will say that my goats had a stronger desire to stay together after weaning than the equine.  I feel sad for you with this part of the dairy    BUT...it is a diary!

It doesn't help a lot but, I feel our pain.  Do you provide milk for the kids or just colostrum?   Your friend bottle feeds??   A lamb bar, etc.

I watched a report  (Utube, TV, ??) about a dairy in India.  They had an amazing (gov't funded) set up!!  The does were in a barn just for kidding, cameras and attendants 24/7.  As the doe began kidding, attendants went and collected the kids which were taken, cleaned, dried, fed...never any more contact with the doe...all of whom were milked at once, on schedules, etc.   Very hands on & well cared for but kidding was ONLY to bring in milk.    Another barn had hundreds of bottle babies,  another was for the milking line-up, etc.     Those does had NO mothering to do.  The animals were well cared for, etc. but it was strictly a dairy. It was a pristine set-up.   India uses almost 100% goat milk for their country, few cattle.


----------



## babsbag

My friend uses buckets for the babies and sells them ASAP. I could never do the bottle raising and the all the rest alone. Goats do stay together as a family unit for life if they have the chance, that is what makes this so hard for me. 


There is nothing pristine about my barn this winter. In 10 years of living here I have never seen this much mud. I usually keep it under control with straw but I can't get the straw spread out in the collapsed side of the barn without belly crawling in there so that isn't happening. I also had to cut slits in the cover so rain wouldn't pool as I was worried about the barn collapsing even more.  There are some places in the field that are literally a foot deep in mud, I stepped in it so I know first hand. I also pulled a goat kid out of the mire.


----------



## babsbag

I am so frustrated with dogs right now I could cry. Alondra has been living in the house for about two weeks and she is good. She gets a little too interested in the kitties sometimes but nothing drastic. I have someone that came to meet her and likes her and I think it will be a good fit. She is looking for a puppy to pair with her too. Alondra will be here for a few more weeks as she is waiting to get spayed, much cheaper here than where the other person lives. 

Mia is in the barn of course, never a problem...

I use food dishes for the dogs that hang on the fence, and the last few days she has snarled at a goat that was on the other side of the fence looking at her while she ate. No big deal really, but she has never been food protective. I make a mental note. 

Today it is raining (when isn't it?) and the goats are crowded in the holding pen waiting to be milked. The dogs are in there too. Sometimes I will hear a dog protest if they get stepped on as they are usually laying down chilling while the goats are being pushy goats. I hear Mia do this more than a few times. I figure it is wet and miserable and the babies are playing too close to her. But again...I make a mental note wondering what her deal is. 

After milking I feed the dogs in their normal places and they all eat ok. Most of the goats are elsewhere so peace reigns. They are all done and Sigueme walks near Mia's dish, which is empty, (and near the gate) and Mia growls at Sigueme. Sig is smart enough to give her the space she wants so nothing happens but I did take notice. I opened the gate and let Sig through and Mia was fine since I was there. I gave her a verbal scolding for being such a jerk. 

I drag a bale of straw into the barn to spread on the ground. The dogs love fresh straw. Mia jumps up on the bale while it is still tied so I ask her to get off, she doesn't. (she is an LGD so of course she doesn't). So I gently push on her rear end trying to get her to move off of the bale and she growls at me.!!!!  Not ok !!!!  I give her another verbal scolding and ask her what that was all about and she hangs her head and gets off of the bale. I spread the hay and the dogs get all cozy and as I leave the barn I hear her growling at a goat that is probably trying to share her straw. 

I have no idea what to do at this point. I am not comfortable getting growled at. When she and Alondra starting fighting Francis had Alondra penned down (a bluff) and Mia attacked her. From that point on I can't say if there is an instigator or not but I am sure confused. 

I guess my next step is to take Mia to the vet and see if anything shows up. The day after she had the first fight with Alondra she was having a seizure and my first guess was that it was from a fever, which she ended up not having. The vet thought that maybe it was a pain response. While she was staying in the house for a few weeks after the fight she had at least one more. Now I have to wonder if they are related to her grouchy attitude.  Could she have a brain tumor? 

My first LGD (Sigueme) is perfect. Why can't they all be like her?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Really sorry to read that you are having such issues with your dogs, hope you can find out what the problem is and get it resolved  soon


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Hmmmmm, maybe you should hang on to Alondra for awhile - pending Mia's health issues?

Hate to say it - and really hope that Mia is fine, but sounds like there may be an issue.


----------



## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> Hmmmmm, maybe you should hang on to Alondra for awhile - pending Mia's health issues?
> 
> Hate to say it - and really hope that Mia is fine, but sounds like there may be an issue.


I was going to say the same thing. Might ought to get Mia thoroughly checked out before letting Alondra go. It would suck to have neither one of them.


----------



## Southern by choice

No way! 
I'd be keeping Alondra and well... a LGD that is growling at it's human partner... nope. 
Recently a friend of mine had her LGD go after her, it was sudden and terrifying. He was biting her head and she was screaming for him to get off. He had gotten sick and was treated, it appeared he was starting to have neurological issues. A goat kid was born and she went to retrieve it and that was it. She is not certain if the dog thought she was a stranger or not. She had a hoodie and hat on. 
Regardless, he was starting to display the behaviors  similar to what you mentioned above. 
Never a mean bone in his body and loved people. Very sad, but at that point dangerous. 

This dog had been through 2 tick born illnesses eventually he was having bouts where his neck was having issues. That is when behaviors started.


----------



## babsbag

@Southern by choice You know that I went through something similar with Buddy...I can't believe that this could be happening here again.   Alondra isn't going anywhere but of course I feel horrible as her new "person" has already fallen in love with her. 

Can I just run away?


----------



## Bruce




----------



## babsbag

From a article I just found about epilepsy in dogs. 

_Drug-naïve dogs showed an increase in the behavior factors Fear/Anxiety, Defensive Aggression, and Abnormal Perception. In dogs receiving antiepileptic medication, there were still increases in Fear/Anxiety and Abnormal Perception, but no longer in Defensive Aggression. Additional increases were observed in Abnormal Reactivity, Attachment Disorder, Demented Behavior, and Apathetic Behavior. Pharmacoresistant dogs had larger increases in Controlling Aggression, Abnormal Perception, and Demented Behavior than drug responders.
_
I am not sure how much more stress I can take._

_


----------



## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> Can I just run away?


Absolutely!  Grab a friend and go have brunch/lunch somewhere.  Be sure to have a mimosa or three.   So sorry you're having to deal with this - none of it is easy.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

i want  to help, but i am too far away


----------



## Wehner Homestead

I’m sorry Babs! I’m at my breaking point too. Things were better but my buttons are being pushed and the anxiety is becoming overwhelming. There isn’t enough of me to go around. All I can say is I’m praying and !!!


----------



## Baymule

Yes, get a glass of wine and a hot soaking bath. You need to relax and clear your head. Then you need to make a serious decision and it won't be easy. If Mia has health issues that are affecting her behaviors and making her dangerous, then maybe she just made your decision for you. I sure wouldn't want to be in your shoes. I know you love her, but please don't ignore the signs that you are seeing.


----------



## Baymule

Wehner Homestead said:


> I’m sorry Babs! I’m at my breaking point too. Things were better but my buttons are being pushed and the anxiety is becoming overwhelming. There isn’t enough of me to go around. All I can say is I’m praying and !!!


I am sorry that you are being overwhelmed. There is nowhere to go but forward. Maybe your husband could give you a 24 hour pass and you could go to a hotel and chill out for awhile. At least once a month, we take our 3 grand daughters for the weekend so their parents can get some sleep, spend time together, go eat or whatever their hearts desire. I realize you have some special circumstances, but even a few hours of alone time would be a precious gift.


----------



## Mini Horses

I am with everyone on the dog issues.  I don't have LGD but, listen & read all I can.  It is a given that they have a different life function than a "pet" canine.   HOWEVER, with any animal, if there are distinct personality changes -- there is a reason!

She may have a medical issue (most common suspicion) of some sort -- maybe not one that is "seen", like a cut is.   You also know that her life has been affected by the storm damage, just like yours and the goats.  So anxiety is high for everyone.  No matter, the situation is obviously progressing and definite.

My thought would be to do an extensive medical testing for disease, injury, epilepsy, etc., first.  That may be the extent of your search if results show issues. If nothing found, a hard decision will be yours but, Alondra would be kept until -- if it were my judgement call.  No doubt this is beyond anything you anticipated.  My prayers are with you  

And, yes, YOU need a little break to just think and calm.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Something else to consider....may be the "evolving of the pack"....how old is Mia?.....if she is feeling ill, then she is expecting a "challenge" for dominance.....she might lash out quicker to assert her "position".....or, the younger sees the opportunity to elevate their status in the pack.....animals "see" things in others that is oblivious to the human eye and tho we want to control and "appoint" a leader.....the pack may have a different "code" to live by.....just trying to bring some "understanding" in explaining the rift that has developed....isn't Alondra the younger?.....


----------



## babsbag

Mia just turned 3 and Alondra will be 3 in a few months. Today Mia acted fine, baby goats sleeping next to her, happy to see me, and acting normal. It is the not knowing that is frightening.  I think it is time to bring her to the house and Alondra back to the barn so I can monitor Mia a little more.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I know you know what you are doing with your dog,   I hope it goes well,..... please be safe


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Just caught back up.  I am sorry you are having so many troubles.  I wish there were something we could do to help.  I noticed that you haven't posted here in quite some time.  I hope everything is OK.  

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Just caught up on several months/pages of updates. I am so sorry about the issues with your dogs, the storm damage and mud/barn issues, the difficulty separating moms n babies, I truly feel your pain @babsbag ! 

I know that no words will help, so I am sending prayers and all the love I have instead


----------



## babsbag

@ragdollcatlady  Thank you.  I will take all the prayers that I can get.  The kids are gone...all but the last 4 that aren't weaned as of yet. I have bought a few new ones this year and I have new motto..."keep the best and cull the rest". I am trying to improve milk production so I can get the 15-20 gallons a day that I want with the fewest number of goats possible. Of course it is hard when some of my old timers are not the best producers but I still love them. 

The mud will never end. We are still getting rain...4" last weekend and this is just wrong for CA. As you know we are supposed to be hot and dry by now. While the temperature is nice this wet stuff  needs to just leave. 

I have someone coming to visit with Alondra on Sunday. It still breaks my heart to rehome her and I pray that this is the right decision.  I love her to pieces but the juggling of dogs is really pushing me beyond what I can tolerate right now. Alondra isn't fond of cats so I have to watch that when it is her turn in the house and Mia is a little dominant with my old house dogs so I have to watch that when she is in the house. It gets hard and I just don't have it in my right now. But I feel so guilty thinking about giving her away. I wish that it was someone that I really knew that was taking her. She is a great LGD. 

I need to get the old barn torn down but it won't stop raining. The goats still hang out under the old barn and I still feed in there. But I have to get it gone so I can start a new one. I am not sure what I am building. Maybe another hoop, maybe a single slope roof, maybe a carport...I can't make up my mind.  I also want to build a bigger processing room for the dairy and move the dairy to the land next to us. So much to do and so little time to do it all. Who needs sleep???


----------



## Baymule

I am so glad to see you here, been wondering about you. Sorry about Alondra, I hope she gets a good home. 

Barn-what kind to build? On a concrete slab? Gable roof? Are you going to build it or have a crew show up and in 2-3 days you have a new barn? Stressful, but you will come through with flying colors.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

So glad to see you are OK.  It's sad to still see you under a lot of stress, though.  I wish there was something we all could do besides keep you in our thoughts.  Please know that we all care about you and want you to come through this for the better.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

What STA said! And yes, rain in California in May? Not the normal time at all.


----------



## babsbag

Alondra has found a great home. She won't be going for a few weeks as I will be getting her spayed first. She will be joining one of my pups from Mia so this is not an unknown which makes me a ton more comfortable letting her go. I love her to bits but swapping her and Mia with house time is sure complicated and neither of them are very happy at the house. The young woman that is taking her has a daughter in 4h and she is taking Mia's pup to obedience classes with 4h. I guess that he is doing great...an LGD with manners...and recall... I will miss Alondra a lot and really miss her in the field. My old girl is getting slower and slower, Alondra is my little speed demon, nothing gets by her. I will also miss her sweet kisses and snuggles...yes my LGDs are my babies. 

As far as the barn...we will do it ourselves, whatever that is.


----------



## Mini Horses

Well -- kinda slide in with a hello & update once in a while, OK?  We've followed your arduous journey and want to know all is moving along -- in "whatever" direction -- and you are ok.  Hope things get better for you.

I miss your dairy doings.


----------



## Bruce

Yeah, what Mini said! We all get invested in the trials and tribulations of our online friends.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I'm having a similar issue with my 2 males.
A person who got goats from us that only lives about a mile from us lost a kid to a predator and we are going to let her "borrow" Marvel as a temporary solution.


----------



## BlessedWithGoats

Sorry you are dealing with a similar situation OFA.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Are you OK?  How's everything there in northern California?  Did you ever get your barn repaired?  We all are wondering about you.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## babsbag

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @babsbag,
> 
> Are you OK?  How's everything there in northern California?  Did you ever get your barn repaired?  We all are wondering about you.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie


I am alive and working my tail off, and thank you for asking.  I have been doing three farmer's markers a week and my husband has been doing one more so a total of four. It keeps me busy not just going to markets but also doing all the milking and making cheese and it is hard to make cheese when I'm not home. I have hired a helper...never thought I would see that day. She has been a friend for about 10 years and she has many years of raising goats under her belt. I think this will be a good fit.

The weather here is so hot that I am seriously considering waiting until fall to rebuild the barn. I am putting up one like we had before with a few modifications to make sure that there will never be a repeat.  We can get it up in two days so I can wait until the weather gets a little cooler and still have time to get it done before winter. The old one is down for the most part and it sure does look bare out there without it. This whole ordeal has made my chore time challenging and frustrating and some days more than I can do. I have walked out to do chores more than a few times wondering what in the heck I am doing. I won't deny that it is hard and I have to keep reminding myself that this too shall pass.


----------



## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> I won't deny that it is hard and I have to keep reminding myself that this too shall pass.



  WHEN will it pass is the biggie...

Although you are swamped with work, it may help itself even out by having taken the path of "hiring a helper".   It's needed.   We know this.  And we know the "fine line" of being able to support it but, at a point it will come around.  It's all part of  the "when".  You have to learn to delegate the work to this gal, allowing YOU to do something else. Let go of what you two decide is her work, just supervise (to protect yourself from County regs) and realign your time to support your goals.   Tough but, do it.  It's a good move.

And, put us on the list for "once a month check-in"    We all want to know you are OK.


----------



## Bruce

Mini Horses said:


> And, put us on the list for "once a month check-in"    We all want to know you are OK.


Yeah, what Mini said! 
You'll probably never see another snowfall like that one. I'm sure your structural changes will help the next time snow falls and you can always use a push broom on an extendable handle to pull at least the lower snow off. I use one to clear snow from my pole mounted solar panels.

Hang tight! I hope the work becomes fun again.


----------



## Baymule

Your business is growing, and with it, growing pains. That is good news and hiring a helper is a good move. Yes, please check in once a month and let us know how you are doing.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

What all the others said about checking in!


----------



## farmerjan

Not only the checking in as I remember reading every one of your posts when you were building/remodeling/doing all the plumbing and such.... and thinking just WOW.....

Right now my concern is the earthquakes that you have had there in the past couple of days.  It is said this last one was a 7.1 and it was recorded here in Va at Va tech.....  I realize that earthquakes are a "given" out there.  The one we had here was so weird a few years ago, but it was very unsettling to those of us that are not even remotely acquainted with the whole process.

Hope you did not have any more complications to things with the quakes.

Glad you found some help.  It is always hard to "let go" of some control, but hopefully it will really help you out in the long run.


----------



## babsbag

I am alive.    My hired is help is seasoning and packaging the cheese and it is nice to get a break from doing that. I have so many other projects and things that I enjoy, like gardening and my bees, and it was very difficult to find time to check on those things.  Business is doing good and I hope to add the ice cream in a few weeks, just  busier than I ever thought possible.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Glad to know you are OK.


----------



## farmerjan

Glad to hear that things are good overall.  Any new developments on the barn situation?


----------



## Bruce

Thanks for checking in Babs!


----------



## Mini Horses

Good !!   You are having the hired help work!   It's great, right?   Glad you are busy with the business.  You sound a tiny bit less stressed.


----------



## Baymule

Thanks for checking in and letting us know that you are ok.


----------



## Ridgetop

Just found your postings again.  So sorry to hear about the problems with your barn collapsing.  And also with Alondra vs Mia.  Rehoming one of them was the only solution since you like your dogs to be able to work in the same field at all times.  It as really sad for you, but the relief from that stress should help.  Did you ever figure out what as causing Mia's personality change?

Keeping 2 or more Anatolian females that are the same age is a real problem.  I considered getting 2 female pups from the same litter Angel came from, born November 2018.  Erick warned me not to since he said by the time they reach 2-3 years old they will become enemies and fight.  Definitely to the death or at least some major vet bills by the time you can separate them which is a big risk with those dogs.  I listened to him, and we have had no problems so far with the 3 year age differences in our 3 Anatolians.    I will just keep adding a new pup every 3 years, probably all females even though we love Bubba to death.  I have kept same age females with Pyrs and they were fine, but Anatolians are a no-no according to Erick Conard.  I rely on his advice - he is my Anatolian guru!  LOL

I hope you can get your barn up soon  is the property adjacent to you where you plan to rebuild flat?  Can you at least buy a Connex container and have it delivered there to hold your feed and milking supplies?  They are water tight and bug proof.

Hope everything goes well for you from now on.


----------



## Genipher

babsbag said:


> I am alive.    My hired is help is seasoning and packaging the cheese and it is nice to get a break from doing that. I have so many other projects and things that I enjoy, like gardening and my bees, and it was very difficult to find time to check on those things.  Business is doing good and I hope to add the ice cream in a few weeks, just  busier than I ever thought possible.




Mmmm! What kinds of ice cream?


----------



## Baymule

Genipher said:


> Mmmm! What kinds of ice cream?


The kind that melts before it arrives to you.  I guess you could refreeze it or drink it!


----------



## Hens and Roos

Baymule said:


> The kind that melts before it arrives to you.  I guess you could refreeze it or drink it!



we have a couple recipes(ice cream and sherbet) that we make then pour the mix into ice cube trays and the use the cubes to make shakes.


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## babsbag

Alondra is loving her new home. She is with 3 other LGDs and doing so good. She has also decided that chickens are ok and not to be chased, which is awesome. I miss her horribly but I couldn't ask for a better home. She gets spoiled and loved on regularly and gets to come in the house, sleep on the bed, and eat ice cream. What a life. She likes the house but wants back outside after a bit. I am just glad that she is happy. 

@Ridgetop  I am not sure what was going on with Mia, maybe just the stress between her and Alondra was showing in other areas too. She has been fine and no more issues. She spent quite a few weeks in the house with me while Alondra was still here and she did great. She is a little food aggressive but no other issues, and she likes cats too. She can be a house dog anytime but she does like to lay on the back deck and watch for critters and she really prefers to be outside. But it is nice to know that she can transition to house dog if that ever needs to happen. 

The barn is still in a holding patten. DH is going to go to NE and IA next week to bring me some goat minerals and a new barn. He likes road trips and I honestly need a break to get the house clean again. He is a full time job.  LOL

Ice cream is still in the planning mode...I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Baymule

Hmmm.... shipping ice cream? I know! Dehydrated, just add water and freeze!  Glad Alondra is happy in her new home.


----------



## Bruce

babsbag said:


> DH is going to go to NE and IA next week to bring me some goat minerals and a new barn.


Boy I hope he has a REALLY big suitcase!


----------



## Ridgetop

Glad to hear that Alondra's new situation is working.  At least that worry is over.  Can't wait to hear about the newbarn.  Is he bringing back workers to put it up too?   HUGE suitcase - steamer trunk!  LOL


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

I've seen you posting on other folks' journals (like Miss @rachels.haven where you talked about your walk behind Bobcat -- thank you for that post).  Sadly, I haven't seen you post on your journal lately.  Is everything OK?  Have you got the new barn up yet?  Did it fit in your DH's suitcase (see Mr. @Bruce's post earlier).  Just would like to hear from you.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Mini Horses

Agree with STA,  what's new?   How's milking?  How's the cheese?
We "grew up" with you dream, it's storm wreck, kidding...so, how about the does and the business ventures?    Don't leave your "rooting partners" stranded for so long.


----------



## babsbag

I'm sorry, I have just been hanging on by a thread; busy doesn't even begin to describe my life right now. And my does seem to think that it is time to think about the boys already and I'm like NOOO!!! It can't be that time so soon. 

The barn is not built but it is at least now in my possession. Honestly I am a little overwhelmed with the thought of doing this all again. The current plan is to wait until Oct. when the markets end as there is just no way to do the markets and the barn, not enough days in the week.  There was quite a bit of custom work that I did on the barn last time to make it water and wind tight and I am not looking forward to doing it again. 

I am also working on making ice cream which means not only developing recipes but also make labels and moving equipment and trying to cram a bunch more stuff into my already tight processing room. And then to top it all off I still want to build a bigger processing room and we already bought the trailer to do it in but haven't had time to get the pad ready to move it in. This barn really threw me a curve.  I don't think that there is much else going on. Waiting for Mia to be in heat so I can add a litter of pups to my crazy life. She is never on a schedule so no idea when it will happen. I already have a few pups spoken for so I hope she makes it happen soon. 

I will try to post more often. Just a crazy life.


----------



## Baymule

And if you weren't doing this, you would be so bored.


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## Hens and Roos

thanks for checking in!


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## farmerjan

Bored and a chance to get a little sleep might be a welcome thing....LOL


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## Bruce

Sure wish a bunch of us lived near you. We could do an old fashioned barn raising.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Amen to that, Mr. @Bruce!  Amen to that!


----------



## babsbag

I would love a barn raising party. Last time I had three friends that helped both days and a few others that came for a few hours now and then. It was hot and miserable and I am surprised that they are still talking to me.  I need to find a few new friends to abuse this time around. LOL

Last night we had a lightening storm like I have never seen. We had no power, it was out before the storm from someone hitting a pole. But oh boy, who needed power for light, the lightening was crazy. At one point I got up to check the yard as I literally heard the lightening sizzle and I knew that something had been struck...but no. Thank God. We also had rain, about an inch, and we don't get summer rain. Of course my house dogs bark at every rumble of thunder so I didn't get to sleep until after 3 AM; they sleep in my room. DH had moved to guest room and he can sleep through almost anything. I am not afraid of storms, but that was intense. 

Now on another note...I have a mama duck that lost two of her ducklings to a predator, probably a raccoon; so that left her with one. I saw ducklings at TSC and on a whim I decided to buy her three of them. I have her locked in the grow out pen in my coop so her baby is safe. I put the new ducklings with her and they ran up to her and got under her wings as if she was their mama and she adopted them. It was so sweet...chickens would never do that. I was so amazed that the ducklings recognized her as their own kind and there were chicks in there too and the ducklings paid them no mind at all. Birds of a feather...   These are the kinds of things that keep me owning animals.


----------



## ragdollcatlady

Hey there, good to see you are still doing the things!

I saw your facebook message about maybe wanting to borrow a boer buck kid this fall. If they don't sell, I am going to try to hold Baileys buck kid longer intact, so he might be available. He is really a pretty guy, Looks like a mini version of his mom of course. The other 2 boys, I will be banding soon and growing out for myself if they aren't snatched up by the time I order a larger bander.


----------



## babsbag

Let me know and I will send Jose on another road trip. I could ask around here but I want to make sure that whatever I borrow is from a clean herd so yes, I'm picky.


----------



## Bayleaf Meadows

Babsbag- have you considered milking through with half your herd?  You could keep milk production, but lessen the work storm in the spring with half the kiddings.  Then breed the other half the next year and just keep going alternating the two groups.  But you would need to be milking all year long for two years with half of the herd and then all year with the other half. The goats still get their two months off before kidding, but that would happen only every two years instead of every year. I have read about some people who milk through multiple years with their goats.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Are you OK?  It's going on 2 months and we haven't heard from you.  I hope you are all right.  

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## farmerjan

She's probably up to her eyeballs with milking, daily feeding and chores, making cheese and all the other products, selling at the farmers' markets,  and maybe if she is lucky, they might be getting the new barn up......


----------



## misfitmorgan

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Miss @babsbag,
> 
> Are you OK?  It's going on 2 months and we haven't heard from you.  I hope you are all right.
> 
> Senile Texas Aggie



Hopefully she is just busy getting that new barn up!


----------



## babsbag

Thanks everyone for asking. The new barn goes up on 10/19...a few more weeks. My friend is coming on Saturday to place some 1600 lb blocks for us to build against so the walls cannot lean out this time, no matter the amount of snow. Then we build the pony wall, and then the barn...again. Boy does this sound familiar. 

I have been busy, the three "M"s...milking, making, marketing. Pretty much my life. But I am not making much money, expenses are ridiculous so DH is going to take a job...4 hours from here.  So once again I am going to be single but I am not sure how to make this work this time as he isn't going to even come home on weekends on a regular basis. I keep telling him that I am going to spend the new income on hiring help. Life will be in limbo for a while. It is time to dry up the girls so I can focus on the barn and some other chores before winter. Most of the does are bred already so kidding will be in February next year...very early for me and I lost my kid raiser too so I am going alone.   I need to find some help or I may just say "enough". There is just no way I can do all the goat stuff and the markets too and it has to pay its own way. Getting rich is not required but operating in the black is. And I stink at marketing, my DH is good at it and he is going back to work. Hmmm.


----------



## Bruce

That is hard Babs  Too bad DH couldn't find a job commuting distance from home like in Redding.


----------



## Baymule

I hate to hear that you are struggling with this. You work so hard, I hope you can find some help.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Thanks for updating us Babs. I hope everything works out for you really sorry to hear about your DH having to work so far away.

If running the dairy on the scale you are currently is not feasible at this time for money, or your sanity there is no shame in dialing things back for awhile. If you have the info structure there is no reason you can't scale back up at a later date.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Thank you for letting us all know how you are doing.  I agree with Miss @misfitmorgan -- your sanity is more important than anything else.  I remember how hard you worked in getting the dairy built, so once the barn gets built, maybe you can scale back some if hiring someone to help doesn't work out.  I wish there were some way we could help.  Here we all are so far away, and can only feel your pain but not help relieve it except that you can share it with us.  Please know that we are all rooting for you! 

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Are you being impacted by the power outages happening in Northern California?  Any wildfires threatening your area?

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Bruce

There are no fires near @babsbag


----------



## babsbag

@Senile_Texas_Aggie  There are no fires by me, but yes to the power outage. We went almost 48 hours without power and if I typed on here what I think about all of this I would be banned. We have a generator so all was good here. I was unable to milk as our generator is not big enough to run the vacuum pump but I am ready to dry them off so no big deal. But I feel so bad for small businesses that had to be closed. A brand new little restaurant near us lost a lot of food as they have a walk in cooler and no generator. Just crazy and I understand that businesses lost over $2 million during this outage. It needs to stop and the public utility commission that oversees our utility company needs to step in and make sure that the right stuff gets done. The higher ups are getting bonuses while the customer goes without. WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  They say that there may be more coming next week. Thank God for the generator. I am on a well and would be sunk with no water.


----------



## Baymule

That makes me angry and it doesn't even affect me. At least you have a generator for things like this.


----------



## babsbag

A year ago when they had that horrific fire in a little town called Paradise the utility company (PG&E) had told them that due to high winds that they may be without power. And then someone sitting in an office decided that the 50-60 MPH winds weren't strong enough to warrant that so they didn't do it, a line broke, and an entire town was lost, and some lives. PG&E has been found at fault and they have also declared bankruptcy. It's a mess and they are running scared. Of course there are thousands and thousands of lines and some of them are in some pretty rugged areas and not clear cut or maintained. Also of course idiots think that it is fun to shoot at transformers and other idiots get mad when PG&E asks to clear cut under power lines. But all of that being said, the technology does exist to shut off a circuit the minute it detects a break and not allow it to try and reset. It is the resetting that causes the spark, not the break. I am ok with an outage for a repair, that is only logical, but this outage for prevention crap has to stop.


----------



## babsbag

Power outage round two is coming on Saturday night, supposed to last until noon on Monday. This is asinine. 

Frame of the new barn is up. We were going to get the tarp on this Sunday but winds are supposed to 40-50 MPH so were are going to wait a week. I am absolutely exhausted, it seemed so much harder this time than last. Praying that I never have to do this again. Now it is time for a run to the dump and get cleaned up and ready for winter.


----------



## Hens and Roos




----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Gosh, Miss @babsbag!  I wished we all lived closer to you.  That way we could have an old fashioned barnraising and have it done in a day or two.  Hang in there!  We're all rooting for you!


----------



## Baymule

PG&E must not take very good care of their transmission lines. For wind to snap lines and start fires, sounds like they need to strengthen their infrastructure. LOTS of places get hard, strong winds, yet seldom snap lines. Hang in there, in the madness.


----------



## Bruce

The governor ripped on them this morning or yesterday for not burying the lines  Yeah, trenching through the mountains would be SO EASY!!!


----------



## babsbag

Our Governor is a joke and praying that the recall comes to fruition.  As far as PG&E...I read some interesting stuff about them and I guess that about 20 years ago they started putting the needs ($$$) of shareholders before maintenance and it hasn't bode well. There is also a law in CA that says if any equipment that belongs to a utility company is involved in a fire that company can be held responsible, even if negligence was not involved. That is just stupid. Power is out and will be until sometime tomorrow and then maybe again on Tuesday. Generators are so obnoxiously noisy, I hate the noise and it makes me grumpy.

Here is a picture of the barn frame. It is much higher than my old one. I wanted it a little longer and in order to go longer I had to go taller. So here it is.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Awesome!!  It's got to be a good feeling to see that going up!


----------



## Baymule

Wow! That is going to be so nice!


----------



## Bruce

Is it the same width? If so, being higher will make it less likely that snow can stay on top. It will get done, things will improve!


----------



## Mini Horses

We've certainly seen a lot of damage but, yours affected all those goats...and your business...and your heart.   Can't be good enough words to see this going up!!!


----------



## babsbag

@Bruce  It is the same width and it truly a 1/2 circle. 30' across and 15' tall. I also have it on a pony wall so it is even higher, abut 18' at the shortest point.

Our winds are back and the power is out again, been out since Saturday night. This is getting so old and I don't need the extra work of dealing with gas and generators and  switching circuits so I can keep freezers and refrigerators cold.  Very very tired and ready to retire...for good.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

......so sorry you have to go through  this


----------



## Bruce

I can understand that, after getting beat on so much it is easy to say "screw it, I'm done". I hope things improve soon since you've put so much of yourself into the dairy.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Bruce said:


> I hope things improve soon since you've put so much of yourself into the dairy.


Amen to that, Mr. @Bruce and Miss @babsbag, amen to that!


----------



## babsbag

Finally got power about 5 PM today. After the winds die down they supposedly inspect every line and make sure that they are all intact. I don't understand why they can't just send a tone through the line like you do in the IT world.  It must cost them a fortune in overtime and helicopters to check the lines. I really think that they are just "teaching us a lesson" for holding them responsible for the fire last year. And now it looks like the big one burning in the CA wine country may be on them too. It seems to never end.  

I might get the cover on the barn this weekend, not sure. With my DH working out of town again I am not sure what the weekend will hold. I am so tired that I don't know that I care.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Hang in there, Miss @babsbag!  We're all rooting for you!


----------



## babsbag

And the cover is on. I have side walls to enclose and kidding pens to reinstall but at least it will stay dry.  Mia's puppies are due the day before Thanksgiving so having the barn put back together before that is my goal. She needs a place to whelp.  

I have been having some health issues and I am just about the healthiest person I know so this is hard for me. I have been in the ER twice in the last week. I have moments of losing touch with reality, not really blacking out, but almost in a trance. All tests are negative for any and all things but I am not happy about this one bit. I am home alone all week and I feel fine but it is unnerving to not know if I am going to have another episode or not.  This also leaves me in a bit of quandry over the dairy and next year.


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## Mini Horses

Good on the barn.   NOT good on the "trance" issues.   Have they tested for seizures?   Pinched nerves?   Anything?     Plus, you've been dealing with quite a bit of stress for a while -- uhhh, don't expect you mentioned THAT to the doctor, right???   Hoping they find the cause and can get it resolved for you.    Don't be driving.


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## babsbag

They do suspect seizures. They last anywhere from 2 minutes to 15 minutes, and they did tell me not to drive but since I am home alone all week that is next to impossible. I have to buy hay and other feed and other errands to run, like doctor visits. I need to get an EEG done, but it is a two hour trip to get there so not happening soon and I doubt it will show anything unless it happens during a seizure.  Stress is my guess...there is none of that in my life.  The other possibility is toxic mold. There is a spot in my house where the roof leaked last winter so waiting to get that tested.


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## ragdollcatlady

Stay safe.
I hope you figure out what is going on soon and I hope it is something small. Fixable is definitely preferable too. I'm too far to be much help, but sending prayers.


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## babsbag

@ragdollcatlady   Thank you. My first trip to the ER was on the way home from Merced. We were at Taco Bell when I decided it was time for a check out. Friend took me to ER in Modesto. I spent the night there but they found NADA.


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## ragdollcatlady

I'm sorry to hear that, I'm glad you were with a friend when it happened.... but that's really worrisome.


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## babsbag

Fortunately I wasn't driving. 10 minutes later I would have been behind the wheel.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Gosh, Miss @babsbag,

Just as you are about to get the barn done, now this trouble!  I hope whatever is causing it can be determined and fixed.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Bruce

Glad to see the barn going up, VERY sorry about the unresolved illness. Did you have an aura before the "attacks"?


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## babsbag

@Bruce  I have no warning at all. There is something else going on and it has been happening all summer. Just brief moments of things looking weird, sounding weird. I can't explain it. I don't get dizzy or sick and it is literally just for a few seconds. I used to get migraines and would have the eye aura before the migraines would start but since moving to Anderson no more migraines; been 12 years.


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## Bruce

I hope they can figure it out fast.


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## OneFineAcre

That's scary.  I hope you are OK.


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## farmerjan

After my little "eyes locking" issue, and feeling pretty good about my chiropractor saying it was a my spine being so out of alignment and "pinching a nerve";  I can still relate to how scary it can be.  And I didn't "check out" like you.  Sincere hopes that they figure it out.  If they do blood work, make sure that the dr also will test for any kind of imbalance in the mineral department....if one is way higher in ratio to what it should be, it can cause all sort of crazy stuff.   Your stress levels have been so far out of anything remotely normal, that I wonder if that isn't a lot of it.


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## babsbag

I do think that stress has a lot to do with it but I am not usually too bothered with stuff and I roll with things pretty well.  I work myself half to death but it isn't always in a stressful kind of way. Having this unknown ailment is causing me more stress than anything else in my life; I need to make some decisions pretty quickly about the dairy and this isn't helping me at all.


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## Ridgetop

I am so sorry to hear about all you are going through.  With the Farmer's markets closed down for the winter season (?) can you get in for the EEG?  Our youngest (adopted) daughter had "space outs" and we took  her to several neurologists who did short EEGs without finding anything.  We kept insisting that she was having small seizures that only lasted about 30 seconds+ at a time.  Finally we took her to Children's Hospital after a year or two of the neurologists saying they couldn't find anything.  That neurologist admitted her for 3 days where she was hooked up to the EEG the entire time and they finally found the seizures.  She has been on anti seizure meds for 8 years now and is doing fine.  She has fetal alcohol syndrome, but with the meds is able to go to college and concentrate.  In high school she did very poorly because she would have seizures and just blank out.  Then she couldn't remember anything about it.

Stress can easily bring on all sorts of things.  While you may not feel overworked physically, the emotional toll could be causing mini seizures where your mind just takes a "rest" to avoid a major breakdown.  Also, have you had a mineral panel done?  I suffered from all sorts of crazy symptoms 12 years ago, ending with not being able to walk!  It turned out to be a huge calcium deficiency.  It took massive prescription doses of calcium for almost a year to regain my strength.

Dry up the goats, don't milk over the winter (with the continuing power outages you can't milk all those does by hand) and concentrate on getting your barn finished, pups whelped and eventually does kidded.  Consider it medical leave, and make sure to have that EEG and lots of different tests to find out what is wrong.  We don't want another Latestarter Joe tragedy!  Take care of yourself.


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## babsbag

I will be getting the EEG in a few weeks but it will only be a short one. I also have a phone appointment with my doctor scheduled for next week so I will start there and see where it goes. I can't be away for three days as there is no one to feed the critters and Mia won't let anyone near her and her puppies, she is a good mama.  I have got to get this figured out. 

The does are all dried up thanks to power outages. I am selling a bunch of goats too and if I miraculously need more milk I have lots of friends with good goats I can buy, beg, borrow, or steal.  Trying to decide what to do with the minis, I am so torn. I like them and have a few years into breeding them but just not sure that they are for me.


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## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> Trying to decide what to do with the minis, I am so torn. I like them and have a few years into breeding them but just not sure that they are for me



My mini nubs gave good milk in large amounts-- fed trips each year and they were fat -- but, did not keep the lactation going for the length of the Saanens & Nubians.


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## babsbag

I did this mini breeding right, started out with a good nigi buck from @ragdollcatlady and then added a few more does and a new buckling from another one of her bucks so I have some diverse genetics as well.  They milk well and have good size teats even for hand milking  but I just have too many goats.  As far as length of lactation it is hard to say as I ended early this year due to the power outages but everyone was still in milk when I quit.   I don't have a good grasp of how much they eat in comparison as all of my goats eat together and the hay just disappears. For now they are staying but I the final verdict is still out.


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## Ridgetop

I am glad to hear you have dried up the does.  Milking a full dairy complement by hand is too much with the health issues you are having.  If you are selling off goats, keep your high yielders and the best genetics standard dairy goats. Since you are not sure the minis are really for you, sell the minis.  They can't produce the volume of a high yielding standard dairy doe, and even though they may milk well lb. for lb. in comparison to standards, it takes twice the work milking 2 minis as milking 1 standard for the same amount of milk.   You may be able to sell them more easily too since they have good genetics and minis are popular.    Weren't you on milk test and putting milk stars on your girls?  Keep the star does since they will produce more milk with less feed and work. That is the main thing now - reduce your work load.  

Since you can get milk from other goat people, you can pasteurize their milk to use in feeding kids this spring.  That way you can keep your Grade A milk for making cheese, ice cream and other dairy foodstuffs you sell at the Farmer's Market. Once you are on your feet again you can decide about adding more milkers.  Maybe you can borrow or lease extra milkers from your friends when you need them for making your cheeses, ice cream, etc.  

Downsize now.  Enjoy the puppies.  Relax until kidding season starts.  Finish the barn if you are up to it.  Get your EEG and other tests, and solve your health problems.  We want to keep you around!


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## babsbag

@Ridgetop. Thank you. That is some of the best advice I have heard in a long time and it actually made me cry. I have a lot on my plate and I feel ok physically but I am trying to take it easy and it is hard as it isn't in my makeup to do that.   Getting milk from my friends for the babies is a great idea that I never thought of. DUH!!!  Thank you.  The barn has to get done, Mia needs to whelp in there.  

I have a craft fair today at the school I used to work at. I am selling soap and lotion. It has been fun making that again, certainly a lot more relaxing than cheese. 

@HomeOnTheRange   Do you need a herd of minis?


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## Ridgetop

I am glad you are going to slow down for a while.  Do only what you enjoy, and have fun playing with Mia's pups!


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## Baymule

Sometimes you just have to take a step back from it all-for yourself. I agree with the mineral test, a mineral shortage or overload can really whack you out. A visit to a chiropractor wouldn't hurt either.


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## babsbag

My EEG came back normal as I expected. But anyone that knows me knows that I am far from "normal".  I haven't had anymore episodes but things are just not quite right. I find myself very emotional over little things (not me at all) and detached from other things. And I suddenly don't like being outside after dark. I am not sure where all this will lead but things are definitely different.  I have the dairy up for sale so unless there is a miracle in my life that is where that is headed. I just can't do it on my own...wish I was 40 years old and not 60.

And the pups are here. They were born Thanksgiving night, 10 of them but we lost one... they all seem happy and healthy and fat.


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## Hens and Roos

sorry to hear about your unexplained health issues and the hard choices you face    . Do you have any close neighbors that you can call if you need help?   Glad to hear the puppies are doing well!


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## Baymule

This may be a hormonal or mineral imbalance. Have you been checked for either of those? Just throwing it out there. Something is definitely out of whack, you just have to find what it is. I’m so sorry that you are having these problems.


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## Baymule

The puppies are beautiful.


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## OneFineAcre

I'm glad the puppies are doing well and sorry you aren't.  I hope things get better soon.


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## frustratedearthmother

So sorry to hear of your challenges.   Often times our health lies in our own hands.   You are the only one who knows how you feel and if you know that it's not right - don't stop digging!

The puppies are precious!  Hope they bring you joy.


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## Bruce

I'm sorry things aren't going well Barbara  
I agree, YOU know if something isn't right whether there is something the doctors can find right off or not.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

babsbag said:


> My EEG came back normal as I expected. But anyone that knows me knows that I am far from "normal". I haven't had anymore episodes but things are just not quite right. I find myself very emotional over little things (not me at all) and detached from other things. And I suddenly don't like being outside after dark. I am not sure where all this will lead but things are definitely different. I have the dairy up for sale so unless there is a miracle in my life that is where that is headed. I just can't do it on my own...wish I was 40 years old and not 60



Miss @babsbag,

I have just now returned to the forum since Sunday and only now reading this.  Gosh, I really hope you get to feeling better -- SOON!  You have worked so hard to get where you are now.  I remember reading your journal a year or so ago and was amazed at just how much you got done.  You seemed like Wonder Woman.  And now you may have to give it up?  It makes me want to cry for you.  It seems so unfair.   I had hoped that once your barn got repaired that you'd be able to get back on your feet. All I can say is that I hope things turn out well for you. 

Senile Texas Aggie


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## ragdollcatlady

@babsbag , Sorry to hear your issues haven't been identified or resolved. 
Congrats on the puppies, they are beautiful.
Hope your Christmas is peaceful and full of family and friends. 
Hugs and prayers!


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## babsbag

The health issues aren't resolving and actually getting worse. I am almost certain that it is mold toxicity but not sure how to resolve it. I need to hire a roofer to replace a section where the evaporative cooler leaked and then figure out what to do with the sheetrock and insulation that is compromised too.  I think that I am worse due to fact that I am inside 90% of the time right now as compared to summer when I was really inside only to sleep and eat. It is hard physically and emotionally and I have been through some rough patches in my life but  have never felt this alone and basically overwhelmed and terrified. Of course mainstream doctors don't buy into the mold conspiracy so my health insurance is useless in getting me the help that I feel that I need.  My emotions are on overdrive too. The thought of selling the dairy brings me to tears but I know that I can't do the work. Kidding season is just around the corner and I need to deal with that. I am thinking of selling all the goats but three or four just to have some weed eaters, but I am trying not to do anything on a whim that I will regret later.  Please say a prayer for me, I am pretty confused and hurt right now and I think that depression is knocking on my door, but this is not something I have even faced so not sure of my feelings. I just know that I don't like the way I feel, physically or mentally.  Thank you.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh Babs...I'm so sorry you are dealing with this.  Mold can sure do a number on you - but I have no idea how to convince your docs and/or insurance company to get on board.

You worked so hard to get your dairy going I hate to see you have to sell out.  I hope you can hold out until your health issues maybe level out.   Try not to make such a major decision while you're not 100%.  But, if it continues to get worse - do what you have to do to take care of yourself.

Definitely sending prayers, best wishes, and positive energy your way!


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## thistlebloom

Your post is heartbreaking. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Is there any way you can get a temporary shelter in place to live in so your body can get away from the mold?  A camping trailer someone can loan out?
Are there any churches in your area you can talk to to see if they have some assistance they can offer?
I'm sorry for the loneliness and isolation you are going through. We don't know each other,but I have read several of your posts.
I am praying for you, that you will find some hope and help.


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## misfitmorgan

Babs I really hope they figure out something to help you out, that sounds like a horrible place to be in. Can you maybe try a different doctor?


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## promiseacres

Prayers!


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## Baymule

There are masks that you can get, such as the ones worn by auto painters, not the paper kind, but masks with cannisters to filter out fumes. That might help. What about hiring someone to rip out the sheet rock and insulation? Look into what to use to kill the mold, there is one kind that actually feeds on Clorox, which is usually used on killing mold.


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## Mini Horses

thistlebloom said:


> Is there any way you can get a temporary shelter in place to live in so your body can get away from the mold? A camping trailer someone can loan out?





Baymule said:


> There are masks that you can get, such as the ones worn by auto painters, not the paper kind, but masks with cannisters to filter out fumes. That might help. What about hiring someone to rip out the sheet rock and insulation? Look into what to use to kill the mold, there is one kind that actually feeds on Clorox, which is usually used on killing mold.


 

I so agree with both of these!      Have you had any enviro people out to check for mold??   If that is confirmed by "pros" you may then get the doctors on board.  That will get you to help for those issues.   I agree with rip out walls & insulation, etc.  but, that kinda part of the enviro inspection deal...identify and destroy first.  Do you have an "office" area in the dairy?  Sleep there?  Stay in there?   

Is the house damage at an end that can be sealed off from the rest?  Then air out the rest until repairs?

We ALL hate this for you!    Your health first, the stress of the immediate goat needs, the possible loss of your dairy (which we have all "built" from afar as the cheering section!).   My prayers are with you.


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## Bruce

Agree with the above. Unless it is a really small area of mold and is limited to the surface, I think you really have no choice but to pull out the moldy sheetrock and any wet insulation behind it. You could then kill any mold that is on the studs/framing. 

As Bay mentioned there are volatile chemical masks that I'm sure would exclude mold though you really can't live with a respirator on your face all the time. I don't even understand "mold conspiracy", I thought health impacts from mold were well known and have been for years. 

Have you seen someone about your depression? It is surely understandable, you've had enough hits to take out even the strongest person. We are all here for you but sadly we can't be there for you. I'm sure if we all lived close enough you would have a "barn raising" crew for whatever you need done.


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## babsbag

I have sent a mold kit off for testing so we will see what it says. The area is my laundry room, right in the middle of the house. The insulation is blow in which has gotten wet and is stuck together and is now like one big blanket but no longer wet. I tried getting it out without much luck so it is going to be a tough one. Of course getting into the attic isn't easy either and having to walk on the ceiling joists makes it tough too. If I can get the insulation out that will allow me to at least see the sheetrock and assess the damage. I can see mold on the underside of the roof sheating and right before I got sick I cleaned a bunch of mold off of the ceiling in the laundry room so I am pretty certain that the sheetrock is compromised. Not sure how it could have mold on the room side and not the attic side.  It is just not an easy project...the story of my life.  I have seen some foggers used to treat mold but the sheetrock is buried under insulation so that would be useless at this point. Of course winter isn't the time to tear out insulation and sheetrock in an attic but I can't wait. I feel like crap and everything points to mold exposure.  Fortunately I don't  have much carpet in the house as that can harbor it too, as can furniture. I needed new sofas anyways.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

I grieved so much when I read your posts.  It seems like you have been hit with one setback after another.  I liked Miss @thistlebloom's and Miss @Baymule's suggestions.  Please take care of yourself!  I know you feel overwhelmed, but look at what all you have gone through in building the dairy.  Take a little while to rest if you can (once you have dealt with the mold).  BTW, this is how I see you:


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## rachels.haven

@babsbag
We had mold problems our last move. My advice is that you need to get out of your house, away from the mold. Camping or sleeping in the barn/car would be preferable. Mold can kill you. It was killing us. Some of us even wound up in the ER we got so bad (not documented in my journal). Give yourself a week without exposure-you may see improvements already. When it's not making you sicker you can decide what to do better.


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## babsbag

rachels.haven said:


> @babsbag
> We had mold problems our last move. My advice is that you need to get out of your house, away from the mold. Camping or sleeping in the barn/car would be preferable. Mold can kill you. It was killing us. Some of us even wound up in the ER we got so bad (not documented in my journal). Give yourself a week without exposure-you may see improvements already. When it's not making you sicker you can decide what to do better.



I just don't have a place to go. I have been to the ER twice and I am supposed to go see a neurologist but I am sure beyond a doubt that this is from mold. A month ago I was working on  a project that was keeping me outside all day every day for about 2 weeks and I felt so much better. Maybe not physically different, but mentally. It is frustrating that the mainstream doctors don't see mold as a real health issue.


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## Bruce

A week at a motel?? I'd offer up my cousin's daughter's room since she is at UCSB right now but I think she might find it a bit odd if someone just showed up and said she was there to stay for a week 

People do live in campers with heaters in the winter. Maybe there is someone you know that has one sitting idle for the winter that you can borrow.


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## farmerjan

You might want to call someone at the CDC..... they might be able to help you find some doctor that is well versed in mold toxicity.  It is definitely a "known" problem.  You just have to find the right person/doctor/situation.  I know that doesn't help you as you are trying to deal with it.  But, I would try to see if there isn't some sort of group that will be able to champion your problem.  
I hate that you are ready to throw in the towel with the goats, but I can understand that when you feel so overwhelmed that things have to change.  I wish I had something to offer as a solution.


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## frustratedearthmother

What about a really good air filter.  I know it won't cure the problem - but maybe it would mitigate the problem until you can attack it for good.









						Verified 9 Best Air Purifiers for Mold Spores & Viruses
					

Results from our at-home tests show you the best air purifiers for mold spores in a home or office, to suit your budget. [5 PHOTOS]




					healthybutsmart.com


----------



## babsbag

@frustratedearthmother  My husband bought a HEPA filter but I think that we need more of them. I will check out that link, thank you.  I would really like my health insurance to cover this but I have an HMO so I have to be seen at their facility unless it is an emergency. I have asked my primary care doctor about mold toxicity and the tests that can be done and all she had to say was that I need to see a neurologist. Not exactly the right kind of doctor. I have an appointment with them next Friday so we will see.


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## frustratedearthmother

babsbag said:


> My husband bought a HEPA filter but I think that we need more of them.


You're probably right about that.


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## rachels.haven

Ours would fill up really fast then stop working...and start spreading stuff around, and the filters got very expensive to keep changing. Not sure if you've already considered it but if you can get the mold cold, it will slow down growing. At one point we had our house down to 40 degrees with windows open. It would be a last ditch effort kind of thing to do, so not sure it would help you now.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Hadn't heard from you in a while and am wondering how you are doing.  Are you still having bad effects from the mold?

Senile Texas Aggie


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## babsbag

I'm still  here. Been working on getting the mold removed and having kids born left and right...12 today. I am still having absence seizures and moments of vertigo but hoping that it will go away when I get all of the mold removed.  The dairy is up for sale and maybe sold. I should know more next week and it is bitter sweet but I have to take care of myself.


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## TAH

I haven't read you're journal in so long and just caught up... I am very sorry you are having to go thru this, we just got over 3months ago of living a house with mold for over a year and it was terrible! I just made the decision tonight to sell my goats and it brings me much sadness that you are having do the same. 🖤 I can't imagine! 

Mold is horrible! Our house had a lot and it was really hard. Me and my mom took the hardest hits out of our family and we are both still recovering.

Have you looked into a ozonator? My dad got one right before we move and did the whole house the last 3weeks we were there living in it and it helped a lot.

And mias pups are adorable!

I will be praying for you! 🖤


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

babsbag said:


> The dairy is up for sale and maybe sold. I should know more next week and it is bitter sweet but I have to take care of myself.


I am so sorry you are having to sell the dairy, after all of the work you put into getting it up and running.  But as you said, you have to take care of yourself.  Please know I wish you the best, and I hope you will stay in touch!


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## babsbag

@TAH  Thank you for the prayers, I appreciate it.  I am emotionally just a mess and that is the hardest to deal with.  I have heard of the ozonator but I thought that they were incompatible with some items in the home, like plastics, but I will check more. I know that many people move but that just isn't practical when you have your life tied up in a home you are buying...I would be homeless or at least financially ruined. It is just so hard and selling the goats and the dairy just make it that much harder. I try not to dwell on it, makes me too sad.


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## frustratedearthmother

So, so sorry you're dealing with this.  My DH says that houses are a jealous mistress.  I have to agree.

I hate that you have to give up the dairy - but it's not more important than your health.  Really hope you don't have to give up all your goats!  Maybe you can keep a few of your favorites?


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## babsbag

I am keeping a few goats. I have one that is a granddaughter of my first goat, Moonpie, and she even looks like her.  I bought 3 pretty expensive doelings last summer and I am keeping them too, at least for now. And a few old girls.


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## Bruce




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## Hens and Roos




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## Simpleterrier

Try a rgf reme halo. It is a uv light and a ionizer. I do HVAC and they work. Take a look at them


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## B&B Happy goats

Simpleterrier said:


> Try a rgf reme halo. It is a uv light and a ionizer. I do HVAC and they work. Take a look at them


We had one installed in a patient's house that had some mold...worked great ...we all could breath and sleep better.


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## babsbag

Simpleterrier said:


> Try a rgf reme halo. It is a uv light and a ionizer. I do HVAC and they work. Take a look at them



It says that they go in the duct work?  I seldom use my heater, we have a wood stove so not sure how I would get air to flow through it.  Ideas???


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## Baymule

I am sorry that you are going through this. Mold in the house is hard to deal with. I am glad that you are going to keep some of your favorites, it will make it a little easier to still have some goats to love.


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

babsbag said:


> I seldom use my heater, we have a wood stove so not sure how I would get air to flow through it. Ideas???



Could you run the blower motor and it still work? I have never heard of an rgf reme halo so don't know it that would work or not.


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## babsbag

Senile_Texas_Aggie said:


> Could you run the blower motor and it still work? I have never heard of an rgf reme halo so don't know it that would work or not.


I could possibly do that but the things aren't cheap and I need to get it right the first time. It also says that it should be installed by a pro...there isn't much that I hire pros for but I have no clue where this installs. HVAC isn't one of my strong points.


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> It says that they go in the duct work?  I seldom use my heater, we have a wood stove so not sure how I would get air to flow through it.  Ideas???


As STA suggested you could set the thermostat to fan only and a bit higher than the normal temp of the room. I don't know anything about the suggested device or if one could install it themselves. A lot of things that "should" be done by a professional can be done by someone with a modicum of handiness and consideration for safety. For instance it would cost hundreds of $$ to have an EV charging station installed by a licensed electrician but it is only a 40A breaker, a length of 8 gauge wire and the proper outlet. You REALLY don't need an electrician's license to put those together.


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## B&B Happy goats

Is there any way you can isolate  yourself in a "safe/clean room" with two air purifiers  running 24/7 ....at least while you are sleeping for 6 to 8 hours you are less exposed to the mold. ..I understand  how difficult  that may sound to do, but living in Florida we are always dealing with mold spores  and such...plastic over doorways, exhaust fans in windows sucking the air out may also help. I have also used 50 /50 solution of water and bleach to kill the black mold....
I certainly  feel for you and these challenges you are facing ...mold can be deadly...had a friend die from mold exposure...I hope for the best for you and your situation


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## Simpleterrier

I was just putting it out there for an option that could work. It gets installed into the duct work. Are u burning wood now? Do u have a carbon monoxide detector in your house? Where u sleep? I would clean up the mold and definitely have a carbon monoxide detector and add the reme. Or another product like it you might find one that is free standing self contained unit


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## Mini Horses

Activated charcoal??

naturefreshpurifier.com


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## babsbag

Bruce said:


> As STA suggested you could set the thermostat to fan only and a bit higher than the normal temp of the room. I don't know anything about the suggested device or if one could install it themselves. A lot of things that "should" be done by a professional can be done by someone with a modicum of handiness and consideration for safety. For instance it would cost hundreds of $$ to have an EV charging station installed by a licensed electrician but it is only a 40A breaker, a length of 8 gauge wire and the proper outlet. You REALLY don't need an electrician's license to put those together.



I need to figure out where it installs, they use terms that I am not at all familiar with. "Install in the air plenum just after the air handling unit (supply side)."

Maybe youtube will tell me more.


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## Bruce

YouTube knows EVERYTHING (and sometimes things it doesn't know  )
I believe the plenum is the ductwork around the furnace and the supply side of the handling unit is the side the fan blows the hot air toward (as opposed to the opposite side where the air returns to the furnace.


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## babsbag

They are about $400 on Amazon but the quotes I see to get one from an HVAC place and have them install it is about $1000.   That's a pretty good mark up or a hard install.


----------



## babsbag

Simpleterrier said:


> I was just putting it out there for an option that could work. It gets installed into the duct work. Are u burning wood now? Do u have a carbon monoxide detector in your house? Where u sleep? I would clean up the mold and definitely have a carbon monoxide detector and add the reme. Or another product like it you might find one that is free standing self contained unit



I am going to get one of the Halos, thank you for mentioning it.  I burn wood and I have a carbon monoxide detector and fire alarms. It's a good thing too as I had a flue fire the other night.  Stress is killing me. Mold is being cleaned up...I hope.


----------



## Bruce




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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Amen to that, Mr. @Bruce!


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## babsbag

Mini Horses said:


> Activated charcoal??
> 
> naturefreshpurifier.com


 I just ordered the activated charcoal pads for the vents on my furnace.  This mold stuff is nasty and isn't just mold that I need to kill but mycotoxins as well and I guess the activated charcoal can trap them. They are tiny.


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## Bruce

One step at a time, hopefully each one improves things.


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## babsbag

I sold 12 does yesterday and their babies; that leaves me with 8.  I just talked with the potential buyer for the dairy and it is a go. He has made the commitment and came up with the money for the down. It's a done deal. I know that it has to happen but doesn't mean that I like it


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## rachels.haven

Sorry about the loss of so many goats. Do you get a new, mold free home with your 8 out of the dairy deal? A small herd may be more ideal for recovery. It took us several months to get it out of our systems and get back to feeling normal and abnormal was fairly bad!


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> It's a done deal. I know that it has to happen but doesn't mean that I like it


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## Mini Horses

I know the sale s bitter-sweet but, it's probably best.   Just so hard to let go of what you worked SO HARD to achieve.   But, you did accomplish it.   So how far will the buyer need to move the trailers for their new set up?  

I hope the charcoal filters work for you....can't hurt and they say it sure helps.   Let us know!    Now you will have more time to check-in!    And we want updates on you!


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

babsbag said:


> It's a done deal. I know that it has to happen but doesn't mean that I like it


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## babsbag

Mini Horses said:


> I know the sale s bitter-sweet but, it's probably best.   Just so hard to let go of what you worked SO HARD to achieve.   But, you did accomplish it.   So how far will the buyer need to move the trailers for their new set up?
> 
> I hope the charcoal filters work for you....can't hurt and they say it sure helps.   Let us know!    Now you will have more time to check-in!    And we want updates on you!



Sorry I have been MIA; just a lot to process and not a lot of focus on my part.  I just find it inconceivable that a little particle of mold can put me in such a tail spin. I keep thinking that I should be stronger than this.

The trailers will be moved quite a ways, about a 5 hour drive. A friend of mine that has a big truck and trailer will move them for him, we aren't going to tow them. The milking parlor is 12' wide and while built on a trailer frame it was never built to tow and the processing trailer has a questionable frame. It lived exposed to ocean air for its life and the frame is showing too much corrosion for towing it, something we didn't see until we got it here.


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## babsbag

Simpleterrier said:


> Try a rgf reme halo. It is a uv light and a ionizer. I do HVAC and they work. Take a look at them



I have purchased the device and hope to have DH install it this weekend.  I live in a manufactured home with a Coleman gas furnace. Hopefully this will install without too many modifications.


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## Baymule

I hope you can get the mold issues handled. That is bad stuff, but you already know that. I don't know whether to be glad or sad about your dairy. So I will just give you a virtual hug.


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## babsbag

@Baymule  Thank you.  Mold can give a person many different problems and all of mine to date are neurological with very sensitive emotions being high on the list.  Vision is another one that is messed up, and as I mentioned before, my energy level and drive.  Perhaps it is from depression.


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## frustratedearthmother

Hoping and praying that your issues will be resolved soon!


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## mendofarm

I just caught up with your posts and am so sorry you are going through this. My BFF in Santa Barbara had the exact same issues and finally found mold between her mattress and memory foam topper. It took her 3 years of going from doctor to doctor as no one believed her. The good news is she finally was treated and came out of it in good shape and energy back. This was when she was in her early 60's. Now just had her 78th birthday, still playing tennis, swims in the ocean, at events most nights. Only lingering thing is a slight loss of taste and smell. I will call her in the AM and ask who treated her and with what, and more details of the progress and let you know. You are in my prayers.


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## babsbag

mendofarm said:


> I just caught up with your posts and am so sorry you are going through this. My BFF in Santa Barbara had the exact same issues and finally found mold between her mattress and memory foam topper. It took her 3 years of going from doctor to doctor as no one believed her. The good news is she finally was treated and came out of it in good shape and energy back. This was when she was in her early 60's. Now just had her 78th birthday, still playing tennis, swims in the ocean, at events most nights. Only lingering thing is a slight loss of taste and smell. I will call her in the AM and ask who treated her and with what, and more details of the progress and let you know. You are in my prayers.



Thank you. I would really appreciate the information. My primary care doctor basically told me that Kaiser doesn't treat mold exposure so I guess that is that, not sure what I am supposed to do next.  I knew that there was mold growing on the ceiling where there had been a leak but I had no idea that this could be the consequences of ignoring it. Fortunately I live in a very hot and dry climate and to my knowledge there is none anywhere else in the house.  A person could go broke testing for mold and treating it, not the way I had planned on spending my savings; truly one of my worst nightmares come true.  Many people have to get rid of EVERYTHING in their home and move and start over, I refuse to go there yet. 

I thought I was doing pretty good last week, went two days without an episode, and then I cleaned house. I have a HEPA filter on my vacuum so not entirely sure that this was the cause of my setback but I have been back at square one since Friday.


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## rachels.haven

Stirring up spores in household dust can cause set backs. I'd just expect it and plan accordingly, and do it at a good time to recover. It's very rough.
Spring coming and open windows should help. The cleaning does help in the long run, even if it makes you sick. Supposedly wearing a good mask or respirator would help, but I could never get them to work with my glasses.

I hope you can find and treat every bit of mold and dust, vacuum, and air out your whole house eventually and wash everything. If you can get it all dry, dry, dry after that and keep it that way forever things may improve.


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## mendofarm

babsbag said:


> Thank you. I would really appreciate the information. My primary care doctor basically told me that Kaiser doesn't treat mold exposure so I guess that is that, not sure what I am supposed to do next.  I knew that there was mold growing on the ceiling where there had been a leak but I had no idea that this could be the consequences of ignoring it. Fortunately I live in a very hot and dry climate and to my knowledge there is none anywhere else in the house.  A person could go broke testing for mold and treating it, not the way I had planned on spending my savings; truly one of my worst nightmares come true.  Many people have to get rid of EVERYTHING in their home and move and start over, I refuse to go there yet.
> 
> I thought I was doing pretty good last week, went two days without an episode, and then I cleaned house. I have a HEPA filter on my vacuum so not entirely sure that this was the cause of my setback but I have been back at square one since Friday.


So my girlfriend was treated at Hope Environmental Medicine in Santa Barbara 805-698-7483. 
janettehopemd.com   Her website contains lots of info including 4 videos and 3 peer-reviewed published articles. She is a family doctor but found herself and her family had mold toxicity. So she went for more training in environmental illnesses. Britt says she learned as much from this site as she did spending $800 on visits to the clinic. The doctor gave her a blood test that confirmed toxic black mold in her system, then allergy tests to find the specific bacteria. Finally a list of things she must do to detox her body and her environment. Britt is looking for that list to send  me. 
Meanwhile, Britt remembers the most important things were to wash all clothes,, rugs, curtains etc and every surface, ( walls floors ceilings, cabinets etc) in borax. This will kill the mold spores but still leaves nuerotoxins on the surfaces, paper files, things that can't be washed. Throw away whatever paperwork,photos etc you can do without. Seal the rest in plastic bins.
Put charcoal filter on your shower head.
Take activated charcoal to start ridding the body of toxins.
Snort a baking soda solution to clean the nose, wash your hair and body in that solution also.
Eat only organic.
Tape hepa filters to box fans and circulate the air. Keep house as open as possible. 
On this list was specific vitamins and supplements to take (one important one was Chlorella, a green algae that you can buy inexpensively in bulk. I will forward the list when she finds it.

She says it took 18 months after she moved out of the rental on the beach (found out later it had been flooded twice) and started detoxing that she finally had no more symptoms. She still will immediately take Benedril if she,say, enters an old church and starts sneezing and breaking into bumps.

I also want to give you another source from my personal medical care experience. I went for years to a wonderful homeopathic doctor also in Santa Barbara. Dr. James Kwako MD 805 565 3959. He treats with vitamin therapies, etc. His back room is set up with recliners to do kelation therapy to remove heavy toxins from the blood stream. This therapy saved my Dad when, after 3 years of getting no better, it was discovered he had mercury in his blood due to an abcessed tooth being drilled through the silver filling. 

Babs, it sounds like you found your problem much sooner that my girlfriend and can start a detox routine earlier so I hope and pray for a quick recovery for you. Let us know what's happening with you.


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## Ridgetop

I just found out what has been happening with the mold and seizures.  Our youngest daughter is adopted and had untreated absence seizures when she came to us at age 14.  It took several years of testing, multiple neurologists, and finally a 4 day stay in Children's Hospital to identify her seizures.  At first the doctors kept saying she was not having seizures!  Mold is difficult to identify and each type has different symptoms.  Allergies to many of the things on your property and in your home can also be dangerous.  When you combine all these things, severe reactions take place and it is hard to sort out the different causes.  Unless you identify each different cause and symptom for each you just run around in circles treating symptoms instead of causes.

Selling the dairy is hard, but your health is more important.  Stress can do more damage to your body than anyone can imagine.  Once the stress has been lifted with the sale of the dairy and most of the goats, you will have more time to find the health problems and treat them.  

So sad to hear about all your problems.  The sale of the dairy may seem like the death of your dream, but once you recover your health, maybe you can teach dairying and cheese making skills to others.  There is always somewhere else to hitch your star.


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## mendofarm

Ridgetop said:


> I just found out what has been happening with the mold and seizures.  Our youngest daughter is adopted and had untreated absence seizures when she came to us at age 14.  It took several years of testing, multiple neurologists, and finally a 4 day stay in Children's Hospital to identify her seizures.  At first the doctors kept saying she was not having seizures!  Mold is difficult to identify and each type has different symptoms.  Allergies to many of the things on your property and in your home can also be dangerous.  When you combine all these things, severe reactions take place and it is hard to sort out the different causes.  Unless you identify each different cause and symptom for each you just run around in circles treating symptoms instead of causes.
> 
> Selling the dairy is hard, but your health is more important.  Stress can do more damage to your body than anyone can imagine.  Once the stress has been lifted with the sale of the dairy and most of the goats, you will have more time to find the health problems and treat them.
> 
> So sad to hear about all your problems.  The sale of the dairy may seem like the death of your dream, but once you recover your health, maybe you can teach dairying and cheese making skills to others.  There is always somewhere else to hitch your star.


Yes, my girlfriend said she had "absence seizures". Not sure what that meant.


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## Baymule

Absence seizures means a blank out. Not a seizure like most people think of, just a quiet, blank stare, nobody is home sort of thing, and no memory of it afterward.


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## babsbag

I have


Baymule said:


> Absence seizures means a blank out. Not a seizure like most people think of, just a quiet, blank stare, nobody is home sort of thing, and no memory of it afterward.


 I have had a few absence seizures that I know of, that is how my husband and friend first identified that something was wrong.  Now I just have very brief episodes of things not looking right or sounding right. I can't understand what is being said and if I am reading the words no longer make sense. These last about 10 seconds and then all is well. I can usually tell that they are coming on.


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## mendofarm

Baymule said:


> Absence seizures means a blank out. Not a seizure like most people think of, just a quiet, blank stare, nobody is home sort of thing, and no memory of it afterward.


Thanks, Baymule.


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## Ridgetop

Absence seizures are what our poor DD2 had.  They had not been identified as seizures until we got her.  It was like she would just go away while you were talking to her.  She would still be standing there but her eyes would glaze and unfocus, and she did not remember what had been said or happened.  When she was younger, she would be blamed for "ignoring" her teachers or parents and punished for it.  One time while DH and I were with her at a teacher conference (after we knew she was having these absence seizures) she had one while talking to the teacher.   Her teacher started to scold her for not responding to the question, and I had to explain what happened.  The biology teacher (who was a licensed EMT) had not realized what was happening when she saw the seizure since they are so mild seeming to others.  Stress is a factor in bringing them on too.  When we got DD2 at age 14 she had been through a lot of familial and sexual abuse, 2 previous adoptions, as well as death of her adoptive mother and rejection by the adoptive father.  She was under constant stress from those things for years in spite of us immediately putting her into counseling.  She also had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome which was the base cause of the seizures.

*While searching for a cause and cure wethe  found out that stress would cause these absence seizures to occur more frequently.  *

_Since Babsbag has been enduring constant stress for the past months, it is probable that the stress is increasing the number of seizures she is having.  I wonder if seizures could also be triggered by some forms of mold._


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## mendofarm

My girlfriend, who was later diagnosed with black mold toxicity,  first realized she had a problem when she served a tennis ball. It came right back, her racket up to receive AND just froze, unable to move, as the ball went by her head. She saw it, she could not move. I guess that was absence seizure event. 

I know this is not typical backyard herds discussion. But I am learning so much from this discussion and we all need to be aware of molds and bacteria. And, thanks to these postings, I will now get on that 15 ft. ladder to clean that black stuff from around my skylight that I have put off for 2 years. I should have paid more attention to my girlfriend's plight. But, like @babsbag , thought it was no big deal. Until it is.


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## Baymule

@mendofarm in the ebb and flow of farm living, many topics are not directly farm related, but really they are.  So mold toxicity becomes important and discussion helps others.


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## Ridgetop

Absolutely!  Mold can occur anywhere there is damp.  We have found it in our feed storage barrels occasionally at the bottom.  We dump the feed into plastic bags and dispose of it in the trash cans in order to avoid having any of our animals get into t by mistake.  Then I bleach out the storage barrels.  Moldy feed is toxic to the livestock as well as mold that you breath in.  

Actually you can buy mold test kits at the hardware store and send in the results for a report (lab fee is included in the cost of the kit).  The report will tell you what sort of mold you have.  I would be very careful, *BABSBAG, *about cleaning any mold without knowing what sort it is since you already are having these extreme reactions.  Some people are much more susceptible to it and since you are already having reactions to it you are one of those susceptible people.

Like *BAY *said in a previous posting you can buy filtration masks at the hardware store. The have a good selection in the painting department (not the little paper ones) that have replacement cartridges. If you are going to try to do anything with cleaning the mold, you should also pick up one of those paper suits that are sold as painting coveralls. That way you can take off the paper coverall. seal the whole thing up in a plastic garbage bag, and dispose of it afterwards. With your seizures, be careful on ladders - don't get up high without someone with you.


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## babsbag

I have learned a bunch about mold in the last few months and I had no idea how damaging it could be. The mold spores actually release mycotoxins and that is what is dangerous and mycotoxins are also what can kill livestock that eat moldy feed. I got test results back for me yesterday and yes, I test positive for mold exposure so no more guessing on my part. So now it is time to start figuring out how to treat it. My doctor is ZERO help, Kaiser doesn't treat patients for mold, so there goes the insurance. I will be sure and check out all the information that mendofarm posted, thank you for sharing.  I am pretty much an emotional mess and that is just not my style and I hate what this has done to me. Supposedly a person can recover and that is what I am going to believe.


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## B&B Happy goats

hang in there....


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## Bruce

babsbag said:


> Supposedly a person can recover and that is what I am going to believe.


 

Really weird that Kaiser doesn't cover mold treatments. It isn't like mold is some new thing no one ever heard of or had medical problems due to it.


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## Ridgetop

Yes, very odd that they don't cover it.  After all they would cover exposure to asbestos.  What is the treatment for mold toxicity exposure?  If you have prescription coverage, any prescriptions should be covered at least.  Are you old enough for Medicare?


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## Mini Horses

babsbag said:


> My doctor is ZERO help, Kaiser doesn't treat patients for mold, so there goes the insurance. I will be sure and check out all the information that @mendofarm posted, thank you for sharing



find a doctor who does!  Maybe the doctor who treated the friend has a referral for one in your area.    It should be covered as any other allergy or disease.  Yes.


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## mendofarm

I agree with Mini Horses! Call Dr. Hope and ask for a referral near you. Or she may be able to direct you to a registry of doctors with this specialty. If not, it may be worth that hard 8 hour drive to see her. Always ask if this new doctor takes insurance and/or Medicare. If so, explain the Kaiser issue and ask if they are willing to accept standard insurance rates or "Medicare Assignment" rates ( meaning they bill only at the accepted Medicare rate. This has saved me hundreds of $$.  
Start a spiral notebook journal with dates and who you talked to,who you have been seen by, etc. Also when you sold your business and goats and why and the lost income after that.  After you get a diagnosis and start a treatment path, IF you have ever worked for wages in CA, apply for State Disability. You have paid into that insurance program as an employee so they should cover income lost after 10 months. Not sure on this since you were independent the last few years. If not, apply for Medicare Disability if you are unable to work for a while. They will want all doctors info, dates of treatment, doctors orders to not work at this time, etc. Can do this online. PM me if you get to this point as there are some critical must-knows. 
Sorry for addressing possible money issues but I know personally the stress of being ill on top of the stress of money coming in and going out (esp. with your being denied insurance).
Still want to get that list of treatment recommendations from my friend for you. However she is skiing this weekend and I go in for surgery Tuesday so may be absent for a while. Keep the faith, Babs, you will get through this.


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## babsbag

I am not old enough for Medicare and Kaiser fills prescriptions too, no out of network coverage available.  There are some prescriptions you can get to help with detoxing but there are also OTC supplements like activated charcoal and bentonite clay. The idea is to bind the toxins that are in my blood and gut and then expel them. Saunas are recommended but I don't have a spa membership and not willing to buy one for this.  Also if I detox too fast then my symptoms get worse.  My husband installed the HVAC UV filter this last weekend so hoping that will help clean the house.

mendofarm, that is a good idea to call and ask if they know of anyone closer to me. I am not supposed to drive so I stay off of freeways and my husband has a new job and no leave, plus it is next to impossible to leave the farm. It makes travel tough. The notebook is a good idea but I don't know if I would ever qualify for disability as it has been years since I worked for a wage. Good luck with your surgery, I hope it goes well.


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## UnderGrace

How I stumbled across this thread I am not entirely sure (I was reading up on goat dairies, but not sure how I ended up here, LOL). I've spent the last week reading through this entire journal and it's been like a cliff-hanger-ending book series with every page! I even made an account just to let you know, Babs, that I'm utterly in awe of you. I know for a fact you out work me every day - even under the influence of mold - and I'll be 25 in a week. I'm heartbroken for the loss of your dairy, but I fully believe that you will find a niche to fill it once you have regained your strength. You go, girl!


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## Baymule

UnderGrace said:


> How I stumbled across this thread I am not entirely sure (I was reading up on goat dairies, but not sure how I ended up here, LOL). I've spent the last week reading through this entire journal and it's been like a cliff-hanger-ending book series with every page! I even made an account just to let you know, Babs, that I'm utterly in awe of you. I know for a fact you out work me every day - even under the influence of mold - and I'll be 25 in a week. I'm heartbroken for the loss of your dairy, but I fully believe that you will find a niche to fill it once you have regained your strength. You go, girl!



Welcome to the forum. It is a real nice and thoughtful thing to do, to join the forum just to tell Babs that you admire her.


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## babsbag

The buyer of the dairy came today and took some of the equipment and the van. This makes it pretty real and no, I didn't get through the day without crying.  It's hard to let go. So much has changed in my life and I feel pretty lost, just not sure what to do next.


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## Baymule

You concentrate on your health and get yourself well, that's what you do next.


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## HomeOnTheRange




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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Haven't heard from you in awhile.  Hope you are getting better and the mold problem is being addressed.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## babsbag

I'm hanging in there, just trying to learn how to live with the new me. I have anxiety and depression that I have never had to deal with before and I find it very strange. My nephew passed away two weeks ago and we were to go to a memorial for him and visit with my sister and brother but now it has been postponed due to the Coronavirus  stuff. My sister is in OR and my brother is in NC and he won't travel, which is good.  It's been rough.


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## Hens and Roos

Sorry to hear


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## Bruce

That is really rough


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## farmerjan

My condolences to your family.  It is tough to  not be able to be with family at times like this.  Not counting what you have been going through with having your whole life, and those plans and dreams upended like you have.  I think of you often as I am making some adjustments to my plans to milk a couple of my cows next year and do herd/cow shares due to the constant  rules and regulations and aggravations of dealing with the public.  I really doubt that I will be going in that direction now,  although at present have no intention to get rid of my cows but to get them all to take a couple extra calves as nurse cows.  
Maybe this insanity with people with this covid-19 will change things for the better for people to learn to appreciate the ones that have small homestead-type farms, and for more to want to do more for themselves, or for those of us that do, to be able to do some sensible sales or bartering without the govt trying to make it all so "taboo" and considered as "unsafe or unhealthy".......


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## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> My condolences to your family.  It is tough to  not be able to be with family at times like this.  Not counting what you have been going through with having your whole life, and those plans and dreams upended like you have.  I think of you often as I am making some adjustments to my plans to milk a couple of my cows next year and do herd/cow shares due to the constant  rules and regulations and aggravations of dealing with the public.  I really doubt that I will be going in that direction now,  although at present have no intention to get rid of my cows but to get them all to take a couple extra calves as nurse cows.
> Maybe this insanity with people with this covid-19 will change things for the better for people to learn to appreciate the ones that have small homestead-type farms, and for more to want to do more for themselves, or for those of us that do, to be able to do some sensible sales or bartering without the govt trying to make it all so "taboo" and considered as "unsafe or unhealthy".......


Probably the opposite, it will mean more rules and regulations, why waste a crisis?


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## farmerjan

Sadly, you are probably right @Baymule


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

Haven't heard from you lately and wondering if you are OK.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Miss @babsbag,

It's been quite some time.  Are you OK?  Please let us know how you are doing.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Simpleterrier

Just checking in maybe @Baymule  knows something


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Mr. @Simpleterrier,

Here is what Miss @farmerjan wrote on Aug 22, 2020 on Miss @rachels.haven's journal:


farmerjan said:


> Have you read any of @babsbag journey into the making of the goat dairy in Ca? She went through he// with the regulations, and after getting it all up and going, with the snow that collapsed her barn, help problems that caused so much grief with getting the kids fed, and then her health problems and she finally sold it all. She made it on trailers, so it could be moved, and met all the regs in Ca....



Maybe Miss Farmerjan or others can provide more info.  I really miss Miss Babsbag and hated to see her have to give up her dreams, especially considering how hard she worked to get it going.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## Mini Horses

She was having real health issues!  I hope she is ok.   Would love to get an update, hopefully a good one.  But wishing the best!


----------



## Baymule

Simpleterrier said:


> Just checking in maybe @Baymule  knows something


Nope, I checked another forum she belongs to and her last post there was February 2020.


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## Finnie

Maybe Miss @ragdollcatlady knows something.


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## misfitmorgan

Anyone heard from Bab's yet??


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## Ridgetop

Where is she?  Anybody in that area know?  Northern California right?


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## Bruce

@ragdollcatlady knows her, maybe she can check in, let Babs know we are thinking about her and perhaps get us an update.


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## ragdollcatlady

As far as I know she is hanging in there and doing OK. She just had a birthday and posted about getting to finally see her boys, so she is excited about that. I'm sure she is just busy but I'll let her know y'all are concerned.


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## Ridgetop

Please!  We miss her.


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## ragdollcatlady

Finnie said:


> Maybe Miss @ragdollcatlady knows something.


Sorry, I hadnt seen this message....

But I messaged her a minute ago and passed on that y'all miss her.


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## farmerjan

Thank you @ragdollcatlady .


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## Finnie

Yes, thank you very much


----------

