# Firedragon1982s kindling thread



## firedragon1982 (Oct 28, 2016)

Just setting up a kindling thread now that one doe is in the process of pulling a crazy amount of fur... Won't be long now!

The mommas to be: Zelda my castor rex and Penelope my broken opal rex.


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## promiseacres (Oct 29, 2016)

Wish my girls would breed in the fall. Do you do anything special this time of year? Am told year around breeding are somewhat genetic. Even my boys don't seem to want to cooperate.


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## firedragon1982 (Oct 29, 2016)

I currently have them in my garage while we try too get the barn built. I turn the lights in the garage on at 6 when I get up, off at bedtime. I also have our chicken/duck brooder on the garage with 2 hens recovering from bumble foot surgery (easy to catch to clean and soak the feet). I wasn't supposed to breed 2 girls, but thought that it he wasn't going to be very fertile or if one of the girls wasn't a good mother better 2 than 1 lol.


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## DutchBunny03 (Oct 29, 2016)

Very nice rabbits!!! Rex usually make great mothers, so you should have few problems, if any. Extended daylight hours definately help, but even without them, is is almost always possible to get your does bred.


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## firedragon1982 (Oct 29, 2016)

So before I left for work, Zelda did make a lovely pile of fur, but nothing yet... Of course I have to work overtime today, so can't be home checking, but maybe that's a good thing! Penelope made a nice hole in her straw in her nest box... but no fur before leaving. We'll see what the lunch time update is from my husband. LOL


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## DutchBunny03 (Oct 29, 2016)

Zelda should kindle within a day. Penelope may be another day or to, but maybe not. Some rabbits wait until the last second to pull fur.


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## firedragon1982 (Oct 30, 2016)

This morning they are both looking huge and uncomfortable. Zelda especially, the way she's holding her ears when I went out to water and give them their hay. Typically they perk their ears forward and greet me when I come out. She looked seriously annoyed, ears back and giving me the side-eye, but still has a big belly.  But Penelope greeted me like normal then went and stretched out on by the nest box showing off her belly. I'll say she kindles a couple days later then Zelda.  I'll say this, it's like their bellies became obvious overnight, they looked fuller, but not large like they do now lol.

We had a female rabbit when I was young that we bred once that was a satin-rex mix that didn't show at all, never did the whole carry straw/pull fur, and kindled on the wire instead of the nest box and lost all the kits. I got to be the one to find them in the morning and clean it up at 12 yrs old.  Not a fun time, hadn't had rabbits since I was 16. So of course I'm paranoid this time around.

Eta anyone else have fun with mobile auto correct when trying to type things? I've edited 3 times now and still finding typos!


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## Hens and Roos (Oct 30, 2016)

Welcome , hope all goes smooth!


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## DutchBunny03 (Oct 30, 2016)

You're doing great. Dams differ in their moods when the kindle. I've seen ones that are usually nice but when they are about to kindle are absolute grouches, and some that don't have mood changes at all. I've never had kits born in the wire, but still paranoid.


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## firedragon1982 (Oct 31, 2016)

The girls are still hugely pregnant, and have rearranged their nests a couple of times now...the waiting and being patient is horrible. Today is day 30. When should I worry? Lol


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 1, 2016)

No, you shouldnt worry. They still have a couple more days until there may be problem.


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 1, 2016)

DutchBunny03 said:


> No, you shouldnt worry. They still have a couple more days until there may be problem.



I think Zelda will be today. When I did my morning rounds, she was making all sorts of grunting noises, and was obsessed with cleaning her parts. Hoping when I get home the babies will be in the nest box!


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 2, 2016)

Yay!!!


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 3, 2016)

Well Penelope has 4 active kits. Born this morning. And Zelda is either holding out or may have eaten them. She's still large, remade her nest several times, but no babies to be found. No blood either. So maybe she's a late kindler...


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 3, 2016)

Yay for Penelope!! Rabbits almost never eat their kits, so that is probably not the case. What size is Zelda, and what size buck did you breed her with? What day gestation is she on?


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 3, 2016)

She is (was before breeding her) just shy of 8 lbs at 7lb 13 oz. The buck was the same size. He is now a little over 8 lbs. If she took the first night, she'd be day 33. If it was the next morning its  only 32. It's so hard to be patient!


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 3, 2016)

And just a few hours later, she's successfully had at least 5. And Penelope is now at 6 and as happy as a clam. I will leave the babies until tomorrow to fully count out the babies outside of mommy's gaze. Zelda was not a happy camper when I opened the cage and gave her a slice if apple. But she happily devoured it lol.

Edit: went out there to count, Penelope for sure has 6. Zelda has 8!! Can't wait to see the coloring. I know 2 of zeldas will be blacks, but then 3 look to be white, but even with the global pedigree estimator shouldn't be from a castor and a lilac.


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 3, 2016)

Congrats!!


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 3, 2016)

How often should I check the babies? The books say every day... And maybe Penelope really had hers yesterday? They're quite a bit bigger than Zelda's already.  Unless that has to do with litter size. I really didn't check as thoroughly yesterday as I did today because I was not feeling well at all. I was focused on finishing chores and going to sleep.


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 4, 2016)

for us it depends on the doe and how protective she is of the kits.  We peek in at chore time but don't disturb the kits each time.


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## Bunnylady (Nov 4, 2016)

The larger the litter, the smaller the kits (assuming the same breed, of course!) This frequently continues to be the case as they grow, too. Apparently, does only produce a certain amount of milk, and the more mouths it feeds, the slower each one grows.

But as to the color of the kits - a pedigree only takes into account the rabbits that are direct ancestors; if you knew what their siblings looked like, you might have a better idea about what might be wandering around unseen in your gene pool. Lilac is a combination of several recessive genes, but there are still a few dominants at play in a few loci. Castor is the result of the expression of dominant traits across the board, so you have the potential for carrying a whole bunch of unseen recessives. REW from that combination wouldn't surprise me at all. Rex also do Cali/Himi/Pointed White; you probably ought to watch the white kits to see if they start to develop dark points (usually shows up first on the tail, then the tips of the ears and toes).


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## DutchBunny03 (Nov 4, 2016)

Yay!!!! Yes, you should check the kits every day. I was just wondering how big the buck and dam were because sometimes dams can have kindling difficulties if the buck was too much bigger than her. The kits get to big to be easily and safely kindled.


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 4, 2016)

Bunnylady said:


> The larger the litter, the smaller the kits (assuming the same breed, of course!) This frequently continues to be the case as they grow, too. Apparently, does only produce a certain amount of milk, and the more mouths it feeds, the slower each one grows.
> 
> But as to the color of the kits - a pedigree only takes into account the rabbits that are direct ancestors; if you knew what their siblings looked like, you might have a better idea about what might be wandering around unseen in your gene pool. Lilac is a combination of several recessive genes, but there are still a few dominants at play in a few loci. Castor is the result of the expression of dominant traits across the board, so you have the potential for carrying a whole bunch of unseen recessives. REW from that combination wouldn't surprise me at all. Rex also do Cali/Himi/Pointed White; you probably ought to watch the white kits to see if they start to develop dark points (usually shows up first on the tail, then the tips of the ears and toes).



I know from the buck his siblings were chocolate, lilac, and otters for both. I know there was a rew buck in their herd, but she said he hadn't been used in their program yet and sounded like they got him from another breeder. Don't know about the does siblings other than another castor doe that was also for sale. I got a quick pic from last night, appears one is a broken, but the other looked all white still but not visible in the pic I took. Let's see if I got the upload thing mastered on the mobile...


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 4, 2016)

So I thought briefly about giving Penelope I've of the black kits to foster so both groups would be fed well... Only to count again and find a 7th in the nest box.
Dunno where s/he was hiding... But never mind! I guess each mom will have to care for her own. Crossing my fingers that they have enough to go around. 

Either I need to move them a bit more when counting or I need new glasses... Oh my babies! What to do with all them babies!


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 5, 2016)

I don't know what color these babies are. These were the ones that looked like they may be white (all pink skin), but now they don't... Fawn? Possible lynx? We'll find out in a week. It's like Christmas, guessing what you're presents are before opening them lol.


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## Bunnylady (Nov 5, 2016)

The first is a tort, the second I can't really tell from the picture; I'm thinking possibly lilac.


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 8, 2016)

Watching the colors evolve is fun. So I thought inn Zelda's litter there was 1 black otter and 2 blacks. Turns out the one I thought was an otter coloring is actually castor. Turned more brown in about 36 hours (couldn't check them this morning, had to wait till evening). Amazing how the coloring can evolve. And man they are little jumping beans! I even got to watch Zelda nurse them as I was doing my chores. She talked a LOT to them. I don't know if it was discomfort of the nursing taking place or what as she does a fair amount of talking when she's scared/spooked on any other given day. It seems her babies are also little noise makers, every time I check them/handle them to count they make all sorts of squeaks and grunts.

Also, Penelope also has some light babies in her litter. Total of 4 brokens, and 3 of the light colors. Can't wait to see what they become. The wiggly things are so hard to photograph well.


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 8, 2016)

they sure grow fast! Yep photos are hard to take with them wiggling


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## firedragon1982 (Nov 15, 2016)

Just wanted to put up some new photos of the babies who are almost 2 weeks old! How time flies! All of the first litter have opened their eyes, most of the second have at least 1 eye open. I think there's 1 I haven't seen open either yet.


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 15, 2016)

looks like you have a nice assortment of colors!!


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## firedragon1982 (Dec 25, 2016)

Babies are now 7 weeks old, ready to be listed for sale... I don't want to, but I know we should. They eat so much!! We're also schedule for our first show in 1 month too... Babies are ~3 lbs, not quite ready to be a jr at the shows..


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## animalmom (Dec 26, 2016)

Mighty nice looking rabbits.


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## firedragon1982 (Feb 26, 2017)

So, my husband agreed to "letting" me breed 2 does again now that the other litters are cleared out (down to the ones we're keeping for now)... Thinking of doing Hershey, my chocolate doe and Zelda with Pete, my broken castor buck. Bound to get lots of castors and brokens. But I want to see how the offspring for Hershey and Pete fill out. Both those have so far taken home a couple of BoV, BoSV with the 2 shows we have gone to so far. And the next show isn't for 2 months, or 3 if i don't feel like travelling  3ish hours each way...


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## firedragon1982 (Mar 12, 2017)

Palpation day!

I was able to feel jelly beans in Hershey. Not sure on Zelda, I don't know if its because her mammary glands are larger than last time. I *think* she is, but you never know.


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## firedragon1982 (Mar 21, 2017)

Well this morning I came out to Zelda haystaching. Nest boxes supposed to go in Fri... Hershey is not haystaching, but was looking worried this morning (if that is possible). Picking hay out of the hay rack and dropping it on the bottom of her cage by the hay rack. She was also desperate for attention this morning, where as I usually take time to pet them every night at feeding time, she was wanting attention this morning too. Kinda odd because neither of the girls look huge this time where as last time both Penelope and Zelda were HUGE the last week.


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## firedragon1982 (Mar 21, 2017)




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## firedragon1982 (Mar 29, 2017)

Zelda is big and round and ready to pop. Hershey is.... Not. She's back at the weight when I bred her and Zelda to Pete. She readily bred to him again, and bred Penelope to a Lynx buck from Zelda's last litter, so crossing my fingers Hershey took this time. Would be a shame if she hits the 3 try rule...


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## firedragon1982 (Mar 30, 2017)

Tonight Zelda has blood drops on her resting board, and a bit of blood on her tail, is laying stretched out looking mighty uncomfortable. Had a teen calling in a panic about the blood. Advised she's starting labor and to leave her be!


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## firedragon1982 (Mar 31, 2017)

We have babies! 5 alive, 3 dead. The dead ones were 1 tiny one, one super elongated one (got stuck/squished?) And one large one missing a head. Cleaned the bodies and bloody straw out of the best box and one placenta. Looks like 3 solid castors and 2 broken living. It looked like the dead were 2 broken 1 solid. Sad day, but yay babies!


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## firedragon1982 (Mar 31, 2017)




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## firedragon1982 (Apr 6, 2017)

So the broken on top didn't have any spots when it was born. I'm curious about the coloring... The momma is my solid castor doe, buck is broken castor. The 3 solids are castors, the other broken looks black (has awesome spotting). The one on top looks possibly red?


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## animalmom (Apr 7, 2017)

Sweet!


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## firedragon1982 (Apr 13, 2017)

Eyes are open, and they are speedy! Still loving the broken red.


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## animalmom (Apr 14, 2017)

Cuteness overload!


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## promiseacres (Apr 14, 2017)

He Is cute!


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## firedragon1982 (Apr 15, 2017)

Ms Hershey and Penelope are due on 4/24, but Hershey is staching early! Not supposed to get a nest box for about a week...


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## firedragon1982 (Apr 24, 2017)

Hershey has birthed 8 or 9 (hard to do a quick count... got 8 and 9 a couple of times) as of yesterday!! Didn't pull much fur that I could see, so I placed some of the saved fur on top of the babies last night. Poor Penelope this morning is still huge and round, but should give birth the next day or 2.


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## firedragon1982 (Apr 24, 2017)

Penelope had hers while I was at work. 7, 2 died. 1 was outside the best box like she does it while getting in/out. 1 looked squished. Then there was 3 living ones in the front of the box, 1 living one in the back of the box. She is concerning me with the amount of blood on her backside. There was a fair amount of blood in the front of the box where the 3 alive 1 dead was. I don't know why but when she had her 1st litter there was hardly any blood on her... She's broken btw, so it's all visible.


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## Hens and Roos (Apr 25, 2017)

Hope it all turns out well for Penelope


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## samssimonsays (May 3, 2017)

How is Penelope?


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## firedragon1982 (May 3, 2017)

samssimonsays said:


> How is Penelope?



She's just fine. I think what it was when she gave birth she laid in some blood in the nest box and got it all over her backside. Just shocking to see when her first birth seemed so bloodless (maybe she ate the bloody hay that time?)



She's currently fostering 2 of Hershey's babies since they were ~24 hrs apart. They're growing like weeds! Should be opening their eyes any day now!


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## Hens and Roos (May 3, 2017)

that's good to hear!


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## samssimonsays (May 3, 2017)

great to hear! it also could have been how fast the babies came. I know I had a few that would have them so quick it looked like a massacre  and that white.... it shows EVERYTHING lol.


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## firedragon1982 (May 12, 2017)

So Zelda's brood is being weaned, stuck her and 2 kits in an empty cage. Have almost a month before Penelope and Hershey are weaned. Wondering what to do since There is really only 1 more empty cage until they're ready to wean. I have a couple of buyers in line, but of course they want the bucks/does to not be related, so has to wait for some to be weaning age. But that'll wipe me out of 1 litter +1 of the older bucks from last time!


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## firedragon1982 (Aug 14, 2017)

Ugh, just had a doe about a litter 7 to 10 days early. And I discovered I can't trust my kids to notice anything wrong with rabbits. For a few days we were having the kids water the rabbits because I was working late and it's been pretty hot here. We had 2 pregnant does. I came home and fed them and would go pass out. Well I noticed one of my pregnant girls hasn't touched her food for 2 days, and her water was completely full, hadn't drank anything, and was acting lethargic. Come to find out her valve on the bottle was plugged/quit working. Gave her some sugar water in a crock and she sucked it down. Gave her electrolyte water and she also sucked that down. And then yesterday came out in the morning to find 9 kits on the cage floor. I knew this was probably going to happen since she was so stressed, but am still upset over it. Especially since if the kids had paid attention or told me it wouldn't have happened.


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