# Will wethering calm an adult ram?



## Grumblebeast (Mar 4, 2017)

*Short Question: *Will wethering calm an adult ram?

*Long Story:* We have a ram, Ollie, who’s about a year old now. He was a bottle baby and our first sheep. In spite of our best efforts we made mistakes in handling him while he was a wee thing. He was sort of raised as if he were a hybrid between a dog and a pony; he was leash trained, harness trained, and desensitized to all sorts of things that might be scary for a sheep.

We thought it would make him calmer as an adult, but all our handling and doting is probably why we’re having problems with him now.

He doesn’t ram with a running charge (he rarely runs in general) he more or less likes to get in your space and give your legs/lower extremities several hard, fast hits until he’s chased off. He does come back if you don't leave the pen quick enough or he waits by the gate to hit you again. The thing is, he _is _holding back when he does hit. These are no where near the full-blast whacks that he's capable of. It's almost like he's playing or shoving another sheep around. 

I've read all these horror stories of killer rams and I really don't want to be a statistic, so I've bounced around on a bunch of different boards on how to stop him from doing this, but most of the techniques (hits on the nose, spray bottles filled with vinegar and/or water, hitting his knees with a stick) only serve to annoy him and I’m worried I’m making the problem worse by smacking him around. Haltering him has been working for the time being, but he still tries to hit you when he’s haltered. I’ve been carrying a stick to push him away from me when needed and he seems to sort of respect it, but it quickly becomes a shoving match (which I do win... eventually).

I’m the only one who deals with him – I don’t let anyone else go in his pen – and I only go in the pen when needed, but at this point he’s treated as if he’s as dangerous as a 2000lb ill-tempered stallion instead of a 200lb bratty ram. If he’s done his job and produced some lambs for me, I’d like to keep him as a wether in his retirement since I am fond of the jerk. 

It might be wishful thinking, but I was hoping that wethering him within the next year or two would calm him down? I'd really rather not send him to freezer camp since he does have a few redeeming qualities and most of his dominance issues stem from me being a novice shepherd.

Thanks in advance for reading!


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## alsea1 (Mar 4, 2017)

I am thinking that you or someone else will be hurt by this boy.
By now this is learned behavior and nothing to do with hormones.


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## promiseacres (Mar 5, 2017)

Imo he will not stop or be trustworthy. Sorry.  rams should never be bottle fed. sorry.


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## mysunwolf (Mar 5, 2017)

I personally would get rid of him for my own safety, whether you sell him to someone with full disclosure, or send him to freezer camp.

But I did have a ram who was a little pushy with grain and square bales and anything you were holding that he wanted. The way I fixed this was that if he even so much as put his head in the downward position while I was there, at all, even just a little, I would quickly grab him and flip him on his butt (the pose for shearing a sheep). It helps to hold him there for a little while (at least 2-3 minutes) and laugh at him before letting him go. If he comes at you again, just flip him again. Keep doing this until he walks away completely. And do it every single time. My guy is now one of the sweetest rams I've ever seen. But keep in mind, I _never_ hit him or anything like that. This just pisses them off and usually makes them more aggressive, IMO.


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## mysunwolf (Mar 5, 2017)

Ah, and as to your question, I have heard that the personality change with wethering is not as dramatic for sheep as it is for goats, etc. But it might be worth a shot if you really can't see giving him up.


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## Grumblebeast (Mar 5, 2017)

Dang, that’s what I was afraid of... We probably won’t end up selling him, since I don’t want to pawn a possibly-dangerous animal off on someone and if anyone was going to eat him, I’d rather it be us. 

But he’s never been set on his butt before... so I’ll try that next! Would halter training help him at all? Ideally, I'd like to be able to have him stand while tied and not struggle so badly, but I'm worried I might've ruined him at this point.

I just wanted to clarify, he’s rarely ever been hit since for the most part, we stick to a routine where I hardly ever go into the pen with him in there and all contact with him (treats, cheek scratches, etc.) is made through the fence. The only time I ever really have to be near him is if one of our chickens gets itself in trouble, since they’re free-range and some of them choose to be with him during the day.

I don’t trust him for a second, but I do love him and would really rather not get rid of him since we were looking forward to making him into a fiber animal when his breeding time is over.

Thank you all for your input so far, I really appreciate it!


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## mysunwolf (Mar 5, 2017)

Grumblebeast said:


> Dang, that’s what I was afraid of... We probably won’t end up selling him, since I don’t want to pawn a possibly-dangerous animal off on someone and if anyone was going to eat him, I’d rather it be us.
> 
> But he’s never been set on his butt before... so I’ll try that next! Would halter training help him at all? Ideally, I'd like to be able to have him stand while tied and not struggle so badly, but I'm worried I might've ruined him at this point.
> 
> ...



Halter training won't help his aggressiveness, but it might be useful for controlling him. It doesn't sound like you've ruined him at all! I wish you the best in getting him to see some sense 

Off topic, but what breed is he?


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## Bossroo (Mar 5, 2017)

The only winner would be the Vet. as he / she laughes all the way to the bank.  Turn this ram into leg of lamb, rack of ribs, and chops and enjoy the fruits of your labors.


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## norseofcourse (Mar 5, 2017)

I had a similar problem with my ram, who came at me when I messed with one of his girls (I was trying to clean her up after she aborted a lamb).  After that incident he started coming at me.  I got advice here from @purplequeenvt and others.  When he would start to act up, I would catch him (sometimes not easy) and get him down on the ground on his side (sometimes also not easy), and hold him there till he stopped struggling, then I would let him up.  After a few times of this, his acting up happened a lot less often.  I still never let my guard down around him, especially during breeding season, but this past year I didn't have to flip him at all.

I have a friend who had a ram wethered as an adult, due to aggression.  It did calm him down a fair bit.  Every animal is different, however.  If you feel confident in trying to sit him on his butt, or lay him down flat on his side, be consistent with it - give him that treatment every single time, even if you think he's just being playful or shoving or not hitting hard.  Sounds like you have a plan decided if he doesn't improve.  Be safe and good luck.


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## Grumblebeast (Aug 7, 2017)

Not sure if anyone’s still interested, but figured I’d post an update. Longish post ahead?

Ollie was castrated at the end of May and the results weren’t as drastic as we’d hoped. It’s been 3 months and he’s just now stating to settle down (though the ewes still rile him up when they’re in heat). But there is some good news! Even though it’s slow going, he is getting calmer and he’s not so inclined to beat the crap out of everything.

As for handling him, I didn’t feel right going after him so aggressively and I know a lot of his problems stemmed from me being so inexperienced and afraid. I’ve gotten more confident around him and I’m trying to be a better handler. He’s been retrained to a halter and while he doesn’t like it, he doesn’t fight it much either. I can have him safely restrained I need to get into the pen.

He doesn’t want to fight much anymore thankfully, but when he does I get alongside him near his shoulder, grab his head, push his butt and we go into a spin, trying to get him to focus on moving his feet so he doesn’t fall over. He gets dizzy, so it’s unpleasant for him, but not harmful. He gets this every time and after his castration, it’s usually only a few seconds of spinning as opposed to a flat-out attack that goes on for minutes.

I’ve been trying to find his triggers (he hates gloves, sticks, flags, so he’ll actively go after those or anyone with them) and since removing/fixing a lot of the weird things that upset him, he doesn’t usually have a reason to come after me. We even fixed a pair of gates he hated since opening them put me between him and his dinner dish; he'd see me as an obstacle he needed to fight because I was unintentionally blocking him. After fixing them to open a different way, he hasn’t had an issue.

The only trigger I’ll never be able to fix is when he gets confused. If he’s confused, he responds aggressively. That’s usually what his attacks are about anymore – he doesn’t understand something or he’s scared. We’ll do that goofy spinning dance and he’ll calm down long enough to hear what I’m telling him to do. He knows some simple commands and is capable of following someone pointing at something, so once he figures it out he’ll usually do what he’s told.

Honestly I don’t think most of these methods would work on any ram but him, but between castrating and actively working with him, he’s a lot less aggressive than he once was. I still don’t trust him, but he’s been doing a lot better and that’s the best I could ask for.


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## mysunwolf (Aug 7, 2017)

Thank you so much for posting an update! We love to hear what worked/didn't work after doling out advice over the internet  It sounds like you're doing a fantastic job working with him, and that he has come this far because of it. I'd be interested in another update after maybe a year of being castrated--I've heard it can take that long for them to re-adjust their behaviors.


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## Baymule (Aug 8, 2017)

I am glad that he has settled down some for you. I would never keep an animal that is dangerous. Not even a rooster. Attack me, I eat you. I have to look at it from the perspective of a child. Children will go places they shouldn't and I wouldn't want any child hurt by an animal I know to be dangerous. We have grand children and neighbors, our farm must be safe.

We have sheep and I keep a ram. He is terrified of flapping plastic grocery bags. He hit me a couple of times, I flapped a bag and chased him. It scared him enough that we now have a mutual respect for one another. I do not allow children in the pasture with him, but if by chance they did go in, at least I know he is cautious enough that he wouldn't run at them immediately and give me time to yell, get the kids out and then whip their butts. LOL


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## Eteda (Sep 25, 2017)

grumblebeast thankyou for updating your post. I am so glad you did. I am considering castrating a almost 3 year old ram. he hasn't shown much aggression yet. Im wondering if he will calm down in a year or two. Id rather sell him for a herd ram but if I don't it least I do know him.  He challenges my LGD and the dog challenges him. that is the main problem. it causes chaos in the barn.


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