# Calf Watch...Guess with me....



## cjc (Sep 6, 2016)

I have a Jersey Heifer that is about to calf what I thought was any minute now about a week ago! Her back end is swollen, 2 days ago there was a fair bit of clear mucous (mucous plug maybe?), her teats are not full with milk but her udder is getting tighter. But she's a heifer and most likely to confuse the crap out of us! This cow follows us everywhere and she hasn't changed in that sense. Sometimes our cows will isolate themselves. I can feel the calf's hoof right below her hip bone. Here are a few pictures. What's your guess? Her vet due date was a week ago:











Now I have this other cow. Shorthorn, 8 years old. I am not sure if she is pregnant. I really thought she was but now I'm super confused. She was with a bull for 7 months! All the other girls have calved now but the last time I saw the bull on her would put her at about 8.75 months pregnant. Her and our Hereford, who didn't take, were jumping on each other the other day. I assumed our Hereford was in heat as the Shorthorn wasn't standing still. But now I am really doubting this girl is pregnant! I didn't get a picture of her back end as really there is nothing to see! What do you think of this udder? Old saggy bag or is this milk coming in?


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## TAH (Sep 6, 2016)

I have no idea. But I am watching for calves.


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## AClark (Sep 6, 2016)

Your Jersey looks close but not bagged up enough to me? Maybe because she's a heifer, but I'd bet within the next 2 days or so as sunken as she is in the back end.

ETA: Have any bad weather coming your way? If so, I'd bet on that day, lol. Usually how it works.


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## cjc (Sep 6, 2016)

Ya I thought she would have had a bigger udder but all of our heifers seem to get that big tight udder the day after the calf is born. She is our only dairy cow though so I only assumed hers would get even bigger but maybe not. She has been laying down for most of the day today.

And yes! haha. Always seems to be that way! Although this season all of our babies were born on smokin' hot days!


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## Bernard (Sep 6, 2016)

Glove up and palpate or get someone to do it. By far easier than guessing


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## cjc (Sep 6, 2016)

@Bernard it was done a month ago. That is not my specialty. I have a vet coming over on Thursday to look at the shorthorn if the Jersey doesn't calf by then ill let him have a gander at her.

But, come on, there is no fun if there is no guessing!


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## WildRoseBeef (Sep 6, 2016)

Really hard to tell with the shorthorn. But her teats do look saggy and not filled with milk. A preg-check will verify if she's open; get them to check too if she's cystic, because that might be part of the problem that she's not catching. 

With the Jersey, golly, she'll be calving any day, it's just a matter of time when the calf decides to tell her it's time to come out. Hopefully you don't have to wait any longer!


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## greybeard (Sep 7, 2016)

cjc said:


> @Bernard it was done a month ago. That is not my specialty. I have a vet coming over on Thursday to look at the shorthorn if the Jersey doesn't calf by then ill let him have a gander at her.


Are you saying the shorthorn was palpated a month ago? If so what was the result?
(The 'fun' in guessing disappeared for me long ago)


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## farmerjan (Sep 7, 2016)

Not much fun in the guessing when you are putting all that feed and time in them.  If the hereford was diagnosed open, I assume you are going to eat her?  I think that you said the shorthorn was  8.75 according to the last time you saw the bull on her?  Beef cattle tend to run a bit over on the normal charts for dairy gestation, and swiss are the longest of the dairy breeds with jersey's being the shortest.  Since you are not doing alot of grain, the jersey won't bag as tight or get as much edema before calving usually, I would say 2-5 days more. the loose clear mucous can come as much as 5-8 days before actual calving; see it with the beef heifers alot 2-5 days ahead.  I would get the shorthorn palpated, and have the vet check the jersey if she hasn't had it by then.  Since you only have a few animals I know it is easy to get attached, but don't let yourself spend a ton of money on animals that are hard breeders and such.  Cystic ovaries happen and they aren't the end of the world, but anytime you keep hard breeders and then keep a calf out of them you are perpetuating  a problem and that is defeating the whole purpose of being self-sufficient.  And if an animal is checked preg then loses it, and rebreeds and loses it again, get rid of her.  Abortions happen, but more than once you are asking for trouble.


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## farmerjan (Sep 7, 2016)

Older beef cows usually bag up and calve in 24 - 48  hours, they don't get much udder until it is time to use it!!!


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## cjc (Sep 7, 2016)

@greybeard no I did not check the shorthorn sorry, I checked the jersey. The vet is coming tomorrow to look at my shorthorn. If the Jersey hasn't calved by tomorrow ill have him check her too but she's close, no denying that.

I paid a lot of money for my shorthorn last season so if she isn't pregnant the guy that I bought her from is going to come pick her up and send her back to me when she is pregnant. Because of how much I paid for her I am not going to give up on her until I have to. I bought her bred so I know the kind of calves she can produce. I will AI her with sexed semen to try and get a heifer if she isn't bred.

@farmerjan I am going to get rid of the Hereford at the end of September. I am selling her with her calf from last year. She's been on grass the past 6 months so not too much of a loss there. I only paid $1,500 for her and calf so I am not too heavily invested in her financially, but I do care for the cow. She's got a really funny personality and she is the mother hen of our herd. All the calves gravitate to her and when she is full of milk she will let any calf nurse. I sorta regret drying her up as I have 7 bottle calves! I will be sad when I load her on the truck.


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## cjc (Sep 8, 2016)

Alright the vet came! The shorthorn is bred hallelujah!! He thinks 7-8 months. The jersey any day now, calf is lined up and ready to go. Very happy my shorthorn is bred. She took a long time to take but she took! In her defence I dropped a bull when she had a one month old calf on her.


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## farmerjan (Sep 8, 2016)

cjc said:


> Alright the vet came! The shorthorn is bred hallelujah!! He thinks 7-8 months. The jersey any day now, calf is lined up and ready to go. Very happy my shorthorn is bred. She took a long time to take but she took! In her defence I dropped a bull when she had a one month old calf on her.



Glad your shorthorn is bred and now you know.  Like I said, I figured 2-5 more days for the jersey just from what I could see in the pics, hard to tell but the mucous helps. They will fool you though.   Congrats.


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## cjc (Sep 9, 2016)

Now I am second guessing my Hereford! I thought for sure she wasn't bred but I didn't have her checked yesterday and she would never stand for a vet and I would of had to get her in the squeeze. Ugh! I saw her and our Shorthorn jumping on each other the other day so I assumed one of them was cycling but now I am questioning myself!! If I sell her I know she will end up ground beef right away and I don't want to do that to her with a calf in her....


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## farmerjan (Sep 9, 2016)

I had a jersey cow that was confirmed preg.  Month later saw her "in heat" so went to breed her A I but she didn't feel "open" so I didn't go through the cervix.  Next trip out vet confirmed her to the original breeding.  She did this 4 times during the next 4 months, and every time she was fully standing for another cow to ride her.  Vet said that sometimes they just do it, but she had a calf 2 days after her original due date.  Never had that problem with her again.  I am surprised you didn't get the vet to check the hereford while there just in case.  Plus, cows close to calving will give off hormonal smells or signals or something as I have seen  other cows ride them like they are  coming in heat but they never fully stand.  Do you have a neighbor or even the A I person that is experienced enough to stick a gloved hand up them to see if they can feel a calf?  I know vet trips out here are usually a minimum of $100.   Sorry, you are too far away to do the neighbor thing.  Maybe a dairyman near you that would stop by when you could get her in the chute?  If she was with the same bull as the shorthorn, when did you take the bull out?  You could always figure the last day he left she got bred, and keep her until after her due date..... or  wait til the vet has to come out again so it's not a special trip.....We breed for a 90 day window so the bulls are only in for a specific period of time, so I can always figure the last day he was there and know that they have to be due no later than such and such a date.  We preg check when they get moved  so we know what their status is...


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## cjc (Sep 9, 2016)

Ya I know I really regret not putting her in the squeeze! She is not even close to a quiet cow which was the main reason and I was seriously surprised our shorthorn is that far along. Ugh!!!! I thought they both failed to catch but I was committed to the shorthorn regardless. I was expecting him to tell me the shorthorn wasn't bred and was hoping to find out why. Our squeeze was in another pasture and bcs she's not quiet walking her to it isn't an option. 

I have one friend who may be able to help. It's $200 for the vet call, honestly I may just call again bcs I care for this cow. I thought of holding out until the shorthorn calves but the vet said its not a perfect science she could be as late as December and no one is going to buy my Hereford in December! I'll probably wait for my jersey to calf and see if she has any issues...id be calling the vet out for her if she did anyways. Ugh.


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## farmerjan (Sep 9, 2016)

If the vet said the jersey's calf was in position, she will spit it out and you'll never know til afterward!!!!!!! Don't want you to have to call them for anything...


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## greybeard (Sep 10, 2016)

> Plus, cows close to calving will give off hormonal smells or signals or something as I have seen other cows ride them like they are coming in heat but they never fully stand.


This /\ happens a lot. I kinda think it's some kind of pheromone-perhaps from the soon-to-be momma's urine.


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## AClark (Sep 10, 2016)

Where's that baby at? 

Also, not about cows, but my parents had a horse that would come in heat regularly the entire time she was pregnant. They had leased her to someone who brought her back (after breeding her to an expensive Arabian endurance horse) because she wouldn't catch. She ended up foaling soon after they brought her back and they came back and got them, lol. She did that until the day she died and she had several healthy foals...sometimes hormones are just weird.


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## farmerjan (Sep 11, 2016)

@cjc  ANY BABY YET???   I'm thinking it is gonna be a bull if she's gone this far past her due date.  It's the rule of thumb on dairies, usually right about 75% of the time.  At this point, healthy, alive and no problems will be good


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## greybeard (Sep 11, 2016)

Heifer or bull?? I always figure, thumb rule or not, got a 50/50 chance of being right no matter what...same odds as winning the lotto. ya either gonna win............ or ya ain't.


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## farmerjan (Sep 11, 2016)

greybeard said:


> Heifer or bull?? I always figure, thumb rule or not, got a 50/50 chance of being right no matter what...same odds as winning the lotto. ya either gonna win............ or ya ain't.



Unless you use sexed semen then it's supposed to be 85-90 % chance of a heifer....that's unless you have a murphy's law jinx and get the 10% chance of a bull calf each time like me hahaha


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## greybeard (Sep 11, 2016)

I use a bull.
This year, I had 2 heifers out of 15 calves, the rest were bull calves, but most years it's been pretty much 50/50 on both the Chars and the beefmasters.


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## farmerjan (Sep 13, 2016)

@cjc   No baby yet????????  Surely thought she would've had it by today.


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## Heather (Sep 14, 2016)

I have an old Angus cow who late April the vet said was 6 months.  She is in a birthing lot and has been for the last month or so.  No calf.  Lol, he came and palpated a three year old Angus in June who didn't take the first time.  He found her to be 5 months.  Well, Sunday she laid down and had a nice registered black Angus bull calf who will probably turn into my son's 4h calf.  With that being said, from now on all I want to know is pregnant or not.  I enjoy the guessing and "lady part"watch with my kids.  Sometimes we even get lucky enough to watch the birth.


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## Heather (Sep 14, 2016)

Good luck, we recently purchased 3 Jersey heifers.  Two have been confirmed pregnant and one was just turn with the bull a month ago but quickly was holding her tail to the side.  The prettiest heifer is making a nice sack already.  After 30+ yrs old beef cattle we are going to give milking these three a try.


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## farmerjan (Sep 14, 2016)

greybeard said:


> I use a bull.
> This year, I had 2 heifers out of 15 calves, the rest were bull calves, but most years it's been pretty much 50/50 on both the Chars and the beefmasters.


We would give our eyeteeth to have a bull throwing 75%+ bull calves, but realistically we run 60% heifers most years.  Had one bull throwing 75% heifers consistently and they were all pretty nice. Then had another that was more like 60% bull calves.  I find it runs in cow families.  Had one cow, one of my first "beef" cows that was a baby from the stockyards fostered on a dairy cow; char/angus/her/hol  who knows cross...Smokey had 4 heifers straight, then a bull then 3 heifers, then a bull, 2 heifers then a bull last.  Her daughters had 3 out of 4 heifers too. Kept alot of them when we were first getting started, still have granddaughters and g-granddaughters.  One, black smoke, is due any day; that was smokey, sandy, smoke,black smoke. Then there's smokey, sandy, smoke, surprise.  Still have smoke, surprise,black smoke.  Most all smokey's daughters had names not numbers, and I got more picky over the years which ones I kept.  I buried smokey, she deserved to not go on a truck to slaughter.


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## farmerjan (Sep 14, 2016)

Heather said:


> Good luck, we recently purchased 3 Jersey heifers.  Two have been confirmed pregnant and one was just turn with the bull a month ago but quickly was holding her tail to the side.  The prettiest heifer is making a nice sack already.  After 30+ yrs old beef cattle we are going to give milking these three a try.



GOD BLESS YOU.  3 jersey heifers all at once????  I only started with one, it was all my arms and hands could take to milk one for the first 2 weeks.  At least they won't all be coming in fresh at once.  I built up to 4 twice a day, and the last of the 4 we named patience as she was so patient with me when I was getting acclimated to 4 after having 2.  It took awhile for me to be able to milk her without taking a couple of "oh my hands are dying here" breaks !!!!! Why did you decide to go to dairy after beef?? Most everyone goes the other way after being tied down so much?  Of course if you use them as nurse cows too, you will be able to be away more easily and the milking will be more flexible, but getting calves grafted on to nurse cows can be trying.  If you had beef and ever had one lose a calf and put another one on them then you know.   Love my dairy cows even with being tied to milking .


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## cjc (Sep 14, 2016)

Ok so we had a slight change of plans haha. I bought this heifer off my neighbor, super nice man raises fantastic cows but he made a boo boo. Turns out her due date is actually September 20th!  I thought it was 3 weeks ago, so that explains that. He got the AI papers mixed up. He said he was so worried she hadn't calved yet so he went back to look and found his error, oh well! I will continue to wait impatiently .

Over the past few days though her bag has really changed. It's MASSIVE! This is my first dairy cow and seriously I cannot believe how big her udder has gotten the past two days. Her teats have also gotten a lot wider. I think she is going to end up one hell of a nurse cow for me!

I am really really praying for a heifer from both my girls this year! I got two bull calves this year, no heifers. I haven't had a heifer born on the farm in 2 years. I would love a heifer for my jersey, then there would be no questioning if I would keep her calf and I would love to raise her daughter to be a nurse cow. For my shorthorn I NEED a heifer from her. I need to raise a shorthorn replacement heifer, well don't need but it sure would be nice! I swore I would stay away from Angus and now I have 8 Angus calves...

I spoke to the vet about sexed semen for my Jersey and I think I will look at that next year. He did warn me that sexed semen isn't as reliable as the sperm get damaged but he said its more likely to work in heifers and second time calvers, which she would be. If I don't do that I am going to bred her to an easy calving Angus. If it's a beef cross cow I will have more use for it if I end up with a bull calf.


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 14, 2016)

Fingers crossed for heifer calves


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## farmerjan (Sep 14, 2016)

cjc said:


> Ok so we had a slight change of plans haha. I bought this heifer off my neighbor, super nice man raises fantastic cows but he made a boo boo. Turns out her due date is actually September 20th!  I thought it was 3 weeks ago, so that explains that. He got the AI papers mixed up. He said he was so worried she hadn't calved yet so he went back to look and found his error, oh well! I will continue to wait impatiently .
> 
> Over the past few days though her bag has really changed. It's MASSIVE! This is my first dairy cow and seriously I cannot believe how big her udder has gotten the past two days. Her teats have also gotten a lot wider. I think she is going to end up one hell of a nurse cow for me!
> 
> ...



I'm not sure why the vet said the sperm gets damaged when they sex the semen.  Maybe when it was first tried, but today there are literally thousands of straws of sexed semen sold.  That said, the straws contain less semen than the unsexed, usually being 1/4 cc instead of the standard 1/2 cc straws.  And yes it is suggested to use it on heifers and young cows; conception rates are less than for regular straws, but that also depends on how observant you are and if you catch her in full heat.   It's more expensive, about twice of the regular straws, but if you really want a heifer then it is a lot better odds (unless you are another walking Murphy's law like me and get the 10%  that are bulls....) And if she has a heat that lasts a bit longer I would breed her twice 12 hours apart.  Considerations for down the road. Yeah, I have some more use for the cross calves if they are bulls even though I eat jersey beef myself; but the cross heifers make tremendous milkers and putting a second calf on them and turning them out with the beef cows gives me the added calf to sell, 2 for the price of one sorta.  Glad you got the due date definite now, and hope that you get the heifer.


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## cjc (Sep 15, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> I'm not sure why the vet said the sperm gets damaged when they sex the semen.



I have actually been told this by a few local farmers and the company that we will use to do AI. The theory is that when they sort the semen some get damaged along the way. It makes sense I think. The company we will use, Wesgen, say they have only a 40% conception rate with sexed semen and a 65% with non sexed semen. Since I will only be breeding one cow if I choose to breed her to a jersey the difference in conception rates isn't enough to turn me off. Having to breed her more than once is worth it to me than to end up with a Jersey bull calf. And yes I believe its $45 for AI without sexed semen and $90 for sexed semen.


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## cjc (Sep 16, 2016)

You guys I feel like this pic is a little X rated haha, but if this doesn't look ready to go I don't know what does. The long string of mucous is one of about 25 strands she's had today...


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## cjc (Sep 21, 2016)

Jesus Christ it's a BULL CALF!!! . That's all I seem to get this year!!! But, besides that he is ADORABLE! My first Jersey and wow is he friendly. I am used to my beef cows dropping calves their calf looking at me and literally running for the hill, me wrestling them to the ground to dip their navel and give them a few shots. This little guy just came at me with curiosity and nothing but love. So do you know what that means? I am raising a Jersey Bull calf! 

He is very small but I am also used to seeing beef breeds. He had a hard time finding her teat, just kept suckling in the air haha so we worked on that this morning. But our girl didn't disappoint, she delivered exactly on her due date!


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## babsbag (Sep 21, 2016)

Congrats but sorry about the bull parts. Calves are just so cute with those big eyes and long eyelashes. I have access to jersey bull calves at a super stupid low price and have thought of raising one to butcher, but not sure I could give something that cute a bottle and then send it to "freezer camp" down the road.  I don't bottle raise my goats raised for meat so I stay totally unattached to them.


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## farmerjan (Sep 21, 2016)

Sorry you got a bull calf.  But the last 2 years we have used sexed semen on one of my jerseys,  I hit murphy's law and the 10% and had 2 bulls....LOL.  Yes they are cute, and with you being around them they will be fairly friendly.  By the time they hit 4-5 months, I can divorce myself from the friendly and think about beef in the freezer.  Make him a steer before he gets too old.  Jersey's mature sooner than other breeds and he will get much more aggressive than beef bulls  and Jersey's have been known to get mean quick.  I used one off of a dairy and he was fine, but I never turned my back on him.  He also produced all heifer calves on my animals that year....


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## farmerjan (Sep 21, 2016)

Looks like the cow will do good for you, she seems to be real nice and quiet and tame in the pics.  CONGRATS.  Hope her teats will be long enough to comfortably milk, that tends to be a problem, they're often short.


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## cjc (Sep 21, 2016)

@farmerjan  Her teats do seem long enough but the calf is just so darn small! I left them for 3 hours and am going to go back out in an hour to make sure he understands again and knows how to get lunch. He's just sucking on skin! I have also never had a calf that has so few teeth when they are born! Our vet who only really deals with dairies is always so shocked how developed the teeth are on my beef calves and I just thought he was strange haha but makes sense now that I see this dairy calf.

I have read that Jersey's don't keep warm like the other breeds I have. Do you think I need to put a blanket on this guy? I made them a big straw bed as I heard straw helps them maintain a good temperature. It was chilly this morning but he wasn't shivering at all.

I have one more cow to calf this year and it better be a heifer! The universe owes me a heifer!


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## cjc (Sep 21, 2016)

@babsbag there is reason why I only tend to buy the heifer bottle calves haha. I figure I can knock them up and sell them bred and they will have a purpose other than the freezer. It is true you do bond differently with them but out of the 4 orphan heifers I have only 2 are really dear to my heart. They all come with different personalities as all animals. I have been pondering what to do with my heifer calves and so tomorrow a piece of land we have is getting fencing put up. Since we breed shorthorns on the farm and drop a shorthorn bull and all my calves are angus, I will move all my heifer calves when they are ready out to the new space and breed them to an Angus bull. That concept calms my heart because auctioning them off would crush me.


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## greybeard (Sep 21, 2016)

Lucky you--a bull calf!! If I tried getting that close to one of my beefmaster momma's calves once she got on her feet,  she'd had me for lunch. don't ask how I know this......


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## babsbag (Sep 21, 2016)

I just don't have the pasture to support more than one so breeding is out of the question. Even getting one will depend on whether or not we get the land next to us and then the pasture will have to be irrigated. Grass fed beef will mean that the grass comes in a bale. We will see. I may take these bottle calves and raise them to weaning and sell them and get my beef for the freezer else where. It also depends on my goats and the dairy and if I am in production or if I have milk coming out my ears again.


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## Goatgirl47 (Sep 21, 2016)

I'm sorry that you didn't get a heifer, but at least he's healthy and the birth went well! Congratulations! 
We have found out that bull calves are slower then heifers to find out where the teats are. Heifers also tend to get up quicker right after they are born. 
He does look small to me, but that might be because this year we've just had fat beef cross heifers. 
You might have already said this, but what did you name him?


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## cjc (Sep 21, 2016)

greybeard said:


> Lucky you--a bull calf!! If I tried getting that close to one of my beefmaster momma's calves once she got on her feet,  she'd had me for lunch. don't ask how I know this......



See now that's the kind of calving I am used to!


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## cjc (Sep 21, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> I'm sorry that you didn't get a heifer, but at least he's healthy and the birth went well! Congratulations!
> We have found out that bull calves are slower then heifers to find out where the teats are. Heifers also tend to get up quicker right after they are born.
> He does look small to me, but that might be because this year we've just had fat beef cross heifers.
> You might have already said this, but what did you name him?



Thank you! That's interesting because I just spent the past hour showing him how to get lunch! He just doesn't get the teat all the way in his mouth and she's literally leaking! I've just been straddling him and helping him nurse, holding his mouth around the teat and his tail just goes crazy happy. I will do that 3x a day for the next few days until I am confident he is getting it on his own, if not ill milk her. He sure is small! It is her first calf though and yes, my calves are usually 100lbs at birth, I would put this guy at 40lbs. He is the same size as my 35lb dog. But that being said my beef cows are over 2,000lbs and this Jersey is probably 1,000lbs. She keeps kicking the calf off though which is just frustrating the hell out of me.

No name yet! Gotta think about that one.


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## cjc (Sep 21, 2016)

babsbag said:


> I just don't have the pasture to support more than one so breeding is out of the question. Even getting one will depend on whether or not we get the land next to us and then the pasture will have to be irrigated. Grass fed beef will mean that the grass comes in a bale. We will see. I may take these bottle calves and raise them to weaning and sell them and get my beef for the freezer else where. It also depends on my goats and the dairy and if I am in production or if I have milk coming out my ears again.



Yes I always wonder what is the best time to sell our bottle calves. Problem is we are coming up to winter now and if we don't have them sold in the next few weeks you will probably have to wait until next spring. Not many people are in the market for a calf during the winter or any new cow that isn't slaughter ready for that matter.


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## Bernard (Sep 21, 2016)

Congrats, that cow is somewhat underweight,  She has very little reserves.  When she hit peak production she is gonna be pulling completely off her back.   you need graining, beet pulp and alfalfa hay.


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## cjc (Sep 21, 2016)

@Bernard thanks for the advice but I don't think so. Vet just saw her and he told me to lay off the grain!


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## Goatgirl47 (Sep 21, 2016)

Most Jerseys need grain to keep in good condition, but the dairy we got our Jersey/Normande cows from had 100 percent grass fed Jersey cows. They had very good genetics, and our Jersey/Normande cow whom we got from them is as fat as a beef cow (or fatter) and she gets no grain whatsoever and only a scoop of alfalfa pellets 3-4 times per week during milking. 
Our old Jersey cow we used to have only needed 1-2 pounds of grain each day. 
All that to say, it really depends on the genetics of the cow. 
But I think it would be wise to give her some beet pulp each day. 

Are you planning on milking and and drinking the milk or are you just going to give it to your bottle calves?


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## farmerjan (Sep 21, 2016)

Most jersey calves will weigh in the 45-60 lb range, so the calf isn't that small and she is a first calf heifer.  Don't let her go more than 2 days before you milk her at most, or she will start to slow down her production.  I would milk her completely out now, freeze the colostrum for possible future problems, and take some of the pressure off the udder. Also, there is an udder cream that has mint oil, that helps the circulation and will take the edema out quicker if she stays swollen.  Milking and massage will help the "hard tightness"  leave quicker.  If you don't milk her, she will develop mastitis.  Dairy breeds are meant to be milked, not just by one calf.  If she is kicking him off it is probably because she is sore, and they don't have the same instincts to mother them like most beef animals, so the sooner you get the milk flowing, and the pressure relieved, the easier it will be on her. Also, if she weighs 1000 lbs as a 1st calf heifer, she is of very good size. My first calf jersey heifers are usually in the 900 lb range at 2- 2 1/2 yrs. Most 1st calf holstein heifers are in the 1100 to 1200 range at 2 yrs old.  Most mature jerseys will only weigh 1100-1300.  They don't have the bone structure to carry a ton of weight.   No they don't have the fat of a beef calf, but they can withstand a fair amount of cold so I wouldn't put any calf coat on him unless your temps are staying down in the 20's.  If you want to push the production you can grain her, but right now I would only give her a little to keep her in a head catch or whatever you are going to use to milk her.  If you are going to put other calves on her, do it asap.  The jersey bull calf will only be able to drink about 1-2 qts a feeding for a week or two or he will scour. Then he will need a little more but they can't use near what it looks like she will produce.  Calves sucking on her and butting her will also help to break up the edema and soften the udder as well as signal the need for milk letdown to the cows system.


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## cjc (Sep 21, 2016)

It was suggested to me to stop feeding her grain 2 weeks before she calved so I did that, I actually gave her apples in its place. Now that she's calved I've given her some grain and lots of alfalfa, which she loves! 

She has stopped kicking off the calf so that sounds right. I have helped the calf nurse 4x today so she probably felt the relief and stopped kicking him off. I did milk her out a bit today just to make sure all was working well and it was. I will milk her out some more tomorrow too I have a ton of frozen colostrum already so I'll probably just feed it to my bottle calves. 

I am going to use her as a nurse cow so not for us. I have 4 calves under 4 weeks on a bottle so they will be happy! I will likely just milk her and bottle feed it to them my beef calves are just too large. 

I actually milked her as she ate! She's totally ok with it. If she starts to need something like a head gate I'll just halter her. I actually don't have a head gate just a squeeze. First dairy girl! Never been able to use one as my beef cows are way too wild for just a head gate


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## babsbag (Sep 21, 2016)

I have a friend whose teenage daughter has two Holsteins that she shows but they never milk them,( total waste IMO, I would love some cow's milk...really it is the cream I want).  But when the cows freshen she goes to one of the local dairies and buys a bull calf and lets the cows raise two calves. Works out pretty well. Last year she sold the bull calf at weaning and now this year she is going to raise it for meat.


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## WildRoseBeef (Sep 22, 2016)

Congrats on the new addition! He's a cutie, regardless if he's a bull calf. 

The cow, for a dairy gal, looks to be in super great condition. I've seen thin dairy cows and she's not thin, so I'm in agreement with the vet on easing off the grain, but of course she will need the little extra nutrition for milk.


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## farmerjan (Sep 22, 2016)

Sounds like she is doing good.  If she is broke to halter that is all I would do if she won't stay put for the whole milking.  I use neck chains and when the cows are in the barn, just clip a tie chain to it to keep them in their place while they are eating and the calves are nursing. Got one that is a "pushy pig" and she will go into everyone else"s spot to get grain so she has to be restrained.  It gives them more "move around" room than a head catch or an old style stanchion but keeps them in place.  One of my jerseys will just stay in place without any tying while I am milking.  Once I get the nurse calves grafted on the cows and they aren't kicking, I'll bring the cows in, give them grain and alfalfa and let everyone nurse.  After about 2 weeks of making sure they are all eating good, I will turn them out w the cow.  I then will usually bring the cows in once a day for their grain and to eat some alfalfa where the other cows can't get to it.  There are always other cows at this pasture w the barn.  It is amazing how quick the nurse cows will come when they see my vehicle and walk/push right past/through the others to come in the barn when I am standing there at the barn door to let them in.  They know they are gonna get some extra!!!!
It is not common in first calf heifers, but jerseys seem to be more prone to milk fever so just keep a watch on her.  Since she hasn't been on too much concentrate it is unlikely, but her calcium can get out of whack.  If she gets wobbly, like she was drunk, or can't get up or cold ears and is down, get the vet unless you can give an IV.  There are paste tubes you can use and we keep them on hand, but they take awhile to absorb and a jersey can go down quick.  Had one old cow that got it just before she freshened every time.  We knew what to watch for after the first time so was fine, but it can scare you.


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## cjc (Sep 23, 2016)

Thanks for all the great info! I think she is past the risk of milk fever from what I understand but I do think she is a little tender still. I milked her out a bit yesterday and get this, I had the bucket on the ground with the milk when I was cleaning up and she drank it all 

But the story gets better. I was like well great I need more now haha, so I squatted down and was milking her, she literally kicked me with intention and now my ankle is incredibly swollen and I cant put much weight on it. Now since I know I need to milk her some more today a dairy farmer neighbor suggested I tie her to the wall and let one of my one month old bottle calves go at her. I am going to do that today at lunch.


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## farmerjan (Sep 23, 2016)

Have had some of the cows drink milk from the bucket so that isn't that strange. Yes a month old calf will get going on her and the butting will hurt her some but should be aggressive enough to get her milked out. All else fails, try hobbles for her backlegs til she gets over the kicking issue. I have used them on cows that don't like to take on other calves until the calf gets well established.  Plus the older calf will get the blood flowing in the udder from butting and it will help to break up the swelling so get rid of the soreness.  Don't let her get away with the kicking.  When you sit down to milk her, milk her as much as you are going to/ or as much as you can, then be done for that milking.  There is a let down factor and once you are done milking, the hormone dissapates and then to start milking again will be irritating to her. It takes in the neighborhood of 1/2 hour to an hour before her body will respond to let milk down in any quantity again.  I would suggest always restraining/tying her to milk her so she will know this is what this is for.  Establish a routine and boundaries and she will get to follow it.  Milk her out when you milk, not just partway or you will wind up with mastitis  and she will not come into her full milk potential then will always be a lower producer.


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## cjc (Sep 23, 2016)

@farmerjan ok great! so I should milk her dry? Even though she has a calf? I literally got half a fair size bucket out of her and she was still dripping....

Also the milk was already pretty white, not the yellow she had the first day.


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## cjc (Sep 23, 2016)

I just went out and bought hobbles! She almost roasted me again today!!!! Her calf was up bucking up a storm today so I got a healthy one on my hands which is great news!


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## Goat Whisperer (Sep 23, 2016)

That's one of the reasons why I don't know if I could raise dairy cows…I've had black and blue hands from kicking goats, I couldn't imagine a cow stomping me 

You are brave.


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## NH homesteader (Sep 23, 2016)

X2


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## Green Acres Farm (Sep 23, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> That's one of the reasons why I don't know if I could raise dairy cows…I've had black and blue hands from kicking goats, I couldn't imagine a cow stomping me
> 
> You are brave.


Your goats kick?

Yeah, I'm kind of scared of cows and horses... Goats stepping on me hurts enough!


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## farmerjan (Sep 23, 2016)

cjc  yes I would milk her out at the next milking and everyone after that unless or until you put calves on her.  Is her calf staying with her all the time now?  If so, the calf won't suffer if you milk her out at milking.  And she may try to withhold her milk since she will want the calf to get it. 
What I do with one of my young cows, I keep the calf away from her, bring her in to her "spot", clip her neck chain to the chain there at her section so she has to stay in the her section  ( it is about 1 1/2 ft long so she has moving room) give her her grain, bring her calf in and get it on the teat on the side opposite I am gonna milk and once it is nursing,  sit on the other side, and milk.  She was alot calmer with the calf there.  Then after the calf started getting a littler bigger, about 2-3 weeks I guess, I would not let the calf in until I had 3 quarters milked out and then I let the calf in to drink the full quarter.  Reason was the calf was getting rambunctious and the cow would move and then the bucket would get tipped over and it really wasn't the cows fault. 
   If you restrain her in a stall/stanchion or something, I would just let a couple of the other calves go on her for awhile.  If you leave her calf with her then it will get enough.  OR if you keep her calf separate, you can let her calf in to nurse, wait a couple of minutes so you are pretty sure it is getting enough, then let in a couple more to finish her up.  There are as many ways to do it as there are cows and a persons own desire to do it. 
   I would say that if she is out of decent milk stock you should expect her to make in the neighborhood of 20-30 lbs a milking  oops;  about 2 1/2 to 4 gallons.  Yes  2-4 gallons  a milking.  I used to get 1 1/2 gal  once a day from one young cow  and there were 3 calves on her as she was only a 3-teat cow.  I have another that will easily milk 3 gal a milking with her calf on her all the time.  She's a grain hog and will let me milk her right out in the field if she's got some grain to eat.
The  month old calves will really work on her udder once they figure out it has milk unless they are shy and she can kick them first.  Mine I can put her in a spot against the wall on one side. tie her and when the calf goes on her, twist her tail so she is thinking about the tail rather than the calf.  I have one all I have to do is stand behind her and crack her once with a stick and tell her that's enough and the next time all I have to do is get a little loud with "Lara that's enough". She  raises about 5 per lactation as I will start some new ones on her, let them nurse a few minutes,then put the older ones in with her and in 2 weeks or so I can pull the older ones off and wean or sell and the younger ones are okay.  I usually leave her own calf with them, and they learn to go nurse when her calf is nursing and usually she will let them even out in the field.  She could do more but I don't have the time to fool with them that much.  Maybe once I retire....
Some prefer to feed calves and some hate calves and prefer to be milked.  I remind the kicky ones that this is not a democracy, this is a dictatorship and if they don't like their job they can always have a " big mac attack".  Sometimes you really have to get after them.  And sad but true, the bigger the pet, the more of a b**ch they seem to be.


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## TAH (Sep 23, 2016)

Congrats!!
Sorry it was a bull but at least it is healthy and cute. He is adorable!1


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## farmerjan (Sep 24, 2016)

Re reading my post, a couple of things I forget.  Yes the milk will usually get white quicker with a heifer, they don't often have colostrum for more than a day so no problem.  Second her calf does not need as much milk as you think so don't be afraid of short changing him.  If he is with her all the time, he will get plenty.  If you take him away, one quarter is more than enough for him to have.  Better a little hungry and no scours than to get too much and get scours.  Jersey calves will dehydrate in a minute since they are so much smaller than a beef calf or even holsteins, so too much milk and scours can be a real problem.  If he stays with her then he probably won't get scours as he will drink a little, more often, instead of a lot twice a day.  If she is truly to be a nurse cow then you should get the calves on her and not have to deal with the milking unless you want it for the house.  
I'm not surprised about the kicking, she is sore, and doesn't want you to mess with her and wants her calf to nurse and like I said, the bigger the pet usually the more difficult they are in the milking stall. See it alot with show cattle too.  The only way to stop it is to make sure they know you are boss and that this is their job.  Some get over it quick, some can try your patience.


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## cjc (Oct 3, 2016)

Well one of my bottle calves FINALLY decided to nurse on my jersey. Our Jersey hates it. I tied her to a pole but she kicks him as much as she possibly can. Luckily he is a hearty guy and doesn't seem to mind it haha. I have 3 calves all one month old and this was the calf I thought I won't put with my Jersey. Reasoning was he is the most aggressive. Aggressive in the sense he is a crazy bucking head butting fun loving guy. He's the only one that has any interest in nursing on her and he seriously cannot get enough. I find him mooing at her paddock every chance he gets. He really wants to live with her and her calf but he's a pretty big calf so I worry he will dominate the new little Jersey bull calf. I have been letting my Angus calf spend time with the Jersey for an hour in the morning. I think today we will bump it up to morning and night. Hopefully soon she will stop trying to kill him and actually let him nurse! Doubt it but I hope so!


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 3, 2016)

cjc said:


> Well one of my bottle calves FINALLY decided to nurse on my jersey. Our Jersey hates it. I tied her to a pole but she kicks him as much as she possibly can. Luckily he is a hearty guy and doesn't seem to mind it haha. I have 3 calves all one month old and this was the calf I thought I won't put with my Jersey. Reasoning was he is the most aggressive. Aggressive in the sense he is a crazy bucking head butting fun loving guy. He's the only one that has any interest in nursing on her and he seriously cannot get enough. I find him mooing at her paddock every chance he gets. He really wants to live with her and her calf but he's a pretty big calf so I worry he will dominate the new little Jersey bull calf. I have been letting my Angus calf spend time with the Jersey for an hour in the morning. I think today we will bump it up to morning and night. Hopefully soon she will stop trying to kill him and actually let him nurse! Doubt it but I hope so!
> 
> View attachment 22502



It took my Saanen a few days to fully accept a "new" kid. One of the other doe's bucklings tried to nurse all the does. She also accepted a new doeling. Both took a few days. Even though she only gave birth to one kid, she had triplets!


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## cjc (Oct 3, 2016)

@Green Acres Farm wow that's a damn good goat! Were the new babies she took on newborns? I just wonder if the fact mine is already a month old is making her kick him so much.


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 3, 2016)

cjc said:


> @Green Acres Farm wow that's a damn good goat! Were the new babies she took on newborns? I just wonder if the fact mine is already a month old is making her kick him so much.


Nope! Around a month or less for the buck and almost 2 months for the doeling. She wasn't a super attentive mother, but was gentle with the littles and let them all nurse.


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## cjc (Oct 3, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Nope! Around a month or less for the buck and almost 2 months for the doeling. She wasn't a super attentive mother, but was gentle with the littles and let them all nurse.



Wow that's a good goat you have! I hope my jersey will turn a leaf haha. I bribe her. In the picture I attached you will see her eating alfalfa. She eats grain too quickly so I give her a leaf of alfalfa and she seems to be more accepting of the idea. But when I hear the crack of her hoof against his side I just cringe!  I think holy crap that's got to hurt. But he just goes right back at her!


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## farmerjan (Oct 3, 2016)

That aggressive calf is just what you needed to go on her.  The butting will hurt a bit since she is still a little sore and swollen from being fresh but it will get easier. As long as he keeps on, let him.  I would definitely get him up to twice a day, and NO OTHER MILK.  He needs to have only her milk in his system so that he smells right to her even if she isn't too keen on it.  Keep making sure her jersey calf gets enough, but if he is with her all the time he will get all he needs unless she kicks him still too.  When he hits about 2-3 weeks old and isn't scouring or anything, I would see if you can turn the angus out with them for a few hours (like during the day) and see if he learns to go nurse when her calf does.   I would still consider the hobbles .....


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## cjc (Oct 4, 2016)

Well I just left them together! I put this calf that is nursing and the Jersey and her calf all together. I saw the Jersey calf nurse for a good 20 minutes so I know he has a full belly. The Angus and Jersey calf get along well and Mama seems to be cautious of not kicking her baby in the battle. I am hoping it will get her used to him. The Angus was on her for a good 30 minutes today at lunch. She did kick him a few times but he is getting better at dodging her kicks! Every time she gets mad I just grab the alfalfa and like "LOOK LUCY YUM!" haha, then she's like alright...I do love this stuff and it takes her mind off the calf nursing.

Here is a funny picture. The Angus calf can only nurse from the back or she goes nuts. He's been wearing a few poop hats


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## frustratedearthmother (Oct 4, 2016)

Ewwwwww!       But that is one determined baby!


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## babsbag (Oct 4, 2016)

Poor baby having to go in through the back door, he is determined for sure. I had a kid that the mom rejected and I would go down 4 times a day at first and hold the doe so the kid could nurse. (Goats are easier to hold than your cows  ) Well this little kid quickly learned that she could sneak snacks off other does while they had their head and mind in the feeder.  I had a doe named Chocolate who seemed to be this kids favorite doe to snack on and we used to laugh about the doeling getting "Chocolate milk".  

This year I have a kid whose dam I sold when she was a week old and I had planned to put her on a bottle. She just didn't want any part of that so I stuck her on a doe whose kids I had sold and let her nurse. At first the doe was not happy but I was milking her so she was locked in a head stand. After a few weeks Lucy decided that the little kid was hers and now they are inseparable.  

Hopefully your cow will cooperate a little more each time.


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## farmerjan (Oct 4, 2016)

It is typical for "grafted calves to nurse from the back unless you have put them on as new babies when she first has her own calf.  Don't worry, her calf is probably nursing off the front teats so this calf is getting more by nursing the back and will help to relieve the swelling so it is the best of all things for the cow.  The black one will learn to sneak up on her when hers is nursing, and her letdown will be better and she will get used to it.


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## cjc (Oct 6, 2016)

That's exactly what's happening. I have been letting them all live together now and it's working well. We offered the Angus a bottle last night and he turned it down! That confirms to me he is getting more than enough to eat, which is just great. The Jersey calf seems to be too and the two calves have really bonded. It's pretty adorable watching them play. We let the Jersey, her calf and the Angus calf all in the field from 5pm until morning. For the morning the three of them are in their paddock. This routine seems to be working well and mama is more of a buffet now in the paddock haha.


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## cjc (Nov 8, 2016)

Just wanted to share a few pics of my all grown up bottle calves . They are all out in our back "pasture" which is really just a forest area. They are moving to the front pasture this weekend. My babies are all grown up! I have 4 completely off a bottle and 3 that are down to one bottle a day.

I am still waiting on the calf out of my shorthorn but she is looking ready to pop! That will wrap up our year with 13 calves this year! Usually we only have 2-3, this year was a big jump for us.


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## lcertuche (Nov 9, 2016)

Great pics. The poop hat is so freaking funny, lol.


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## holm25 (May 15, 2017)

Did your Shorthorn and Hereford ever calf?


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## holm25 (May 15, 2017)

holm25 said:


> Did your Shorthorn and Hereford ever calf?


Nvm I saw your other thread...


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## cjc (May 16, 2017)

holm25 said:


> Nvm I saw your other thread...



Yes, wasn't really the ending I was hoping for.


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