# Help...Bleeding horn..!!



## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 12, 2010)

My 3 month old Togg Buck got his scur caught in the fence...oh of course blood down the face...washed the blood and cleaned him up...used cayene to stop bleeding...nothing else on hand...(vet coming tommorrow) should I wash the cayene off and put antibotic cream for the eve???? Unsure what to do....I put a little too much on the pepper I think...and I wanna keep it clean...Thankfully I just powered them for bugs etc for season...so not a bug in site....I am also asking the vet to get those horns off tommorrow while here...waiting for confirmation...

So the scur cracked a bit and he has a cut on his head...not really sure  how??? nothing sharp...thankfully hes getting his 2nd tetnus tommorrow..luck has it..the vets been schdl for three weeks now for a farm visit for all.....but should I wash and antibiotic cream on...????


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 12, 2010)

Always something with the goaties, isn't it?  

So sorry to hear that happened to the little guy. I'm afraid I don't have experience with that sort of thing. My inclination would be to use the antib cream (make sure it's not the "plus" with pain med is what I've heard) but ... Surely someone with more experience with this will post. I mostly wanted to offer moral support is all. 

Horn injuries worry me especially, since the skull is involved. And just about all of my goats are horned. 

Sorry again to hear that about the little guy.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 12, 2010)

First I've ever heard of using cayenne to stop bleeding, soo...I really dunno if it'll start bleeding again if you wash it.  Something tells me it won't...or if it does, it won't be much.  

I'd say if the bleeding's stopped and you want to wash it good and slap a little triple-antibiotic on there (or furazone...or bluekote...or scarlex...or fly spray...or whatever) I wouldn't think it would be a problem.

If you wash it off and it DOES start bleeding again...slap some more cayenne on there to get it stopped, then just pretend like you didn't do what you just did.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 12, 2010)

Shiloh Acres said:
			
		

> My inclination would be to use the antib cream (make sure it's not the "plus" with pain med is what I've heard)


I always thought the "+pain" stuff was to be avoided when using Neosporin in goats' eyes....not necessarily to be avoided PERIOD.

Then again...I've never used neosporin on a goat.  I don't think, anyway..  We keep furazone on hand, which is basically neosporin for farm animals.


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 12, 2010)

Well, CM, you're probably right then. That's why I said it was what I'd heard. I was told to avoid it, but I can't remember by who. I actually questioned myself when I wrote that -- if you can shoot banamine in them, why can't you use antib+ cream?  So.... Thanks for the correction. I should have left that part out. I guess I was trying to be helpful, but then again if all someone has is the plus, I wouldn't want to discourage treatment because of a misplaced warning.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 12, 2010)

Shiloh Acres said:
			
		

> Well, CM, you're probably right then. That's why I said it was what I'd heard. I was told to avoid it, but I can't remember by who. I actually questioned myself when I wrote that -- if you can shoot banamine in them, why can't you use antib+ cream?  So.... Thanks for the correction. I should have left that part out. I guess I was trying to be helpful, but then again if all someone has is the plus, I wouldn't want to discourage treatment because of a misplaced warning.


No no..  No no no...  

I wasn't saying _it's definitely OK_ to use the +Pain formula topically...I'm just saying I thought it was to be avoided _if it's going in the eye_..

Maybe it's not OK on skin either..  Hell, I dunno..  

Perhaps I should have been more clear..  

EDIT:  Just found a reference to the +Pain formula on some goat club's website..  Apparently, goats won't scratch or lick it off, so they recommend it over regular neosporin for topical (ie., cut/scratch/bite/etc) use.  That's just _one_ reference, though....

If it's what I had, I'd prolly do it if only to see what happens.  I'm at that point with my goats, though.


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## Ariel301 (Aug 12, 2010)

The neosporin couldn't hurt, just to be safe. You could wash the wound gently with cool water, and if it starts bleeding again excessively, just re-treat for that. I use flour to stop bleeding, never heard of using the pepper. It seems like that would burn on a raw spot!

I see no reason not to use the pain formula neosporin if that is what you have. It should not go in the eyes, and I have been told not to use it on birds because it can be toxic to them, but I have used it on horses. It's a pain killer in the lidocaine family, which is related to the local anaesthetics vets sometimes use to numb the skin when stitching up a wound, only not as strong, so I see no danger in it.


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## mully (Aug 12, 2010)

Bleeding can be stopped with baking soda.  Apply a good amount and wrap with gauze. It will crust and stop, then put tape over it. Keep the goat away from the others so they do not disturb the wound.


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## Shiloh Acres (Aug 12, 2010)

It's all good, CM. Even if you ARE ready to turn your goats into guinea pigs.  Hehe, I am just teasing you. 

And see, other people who know better DID post. Y'all are all great. 

I just hated to see a problem with the new little buck, especially after having lost the first one.  Goats do seriously make for a love/hate kind of relationship. Lucky they can be so cute too!


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## helmstead (Aug 12, 2010)

The +pain warning is only for eyes.  

This is a COMMON injury.  He won't bleed to death.  You really don't need to worry about it.  It will clot, eventually.

The ONLY thing to be concerned with *and only because it's fly season* are maggots.  I'd apply Swat ointment all around the area daily to avoid that.

It's a head wound, y'all.  They bleed, and it always looks horrific, but the blood loss is never as much as you think it is.

Next order of business needs to be a good descurring!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 12, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> The +pain warning is only for eyes.
> 
> This is a COMMON injury.  He won't bleed to death.  You really don't need to worry about it.  It will clot, eventually.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct....washed the pepper out of the wound and the boy all clean now.  Clean it again with hyrdogen pyroxide...and my vet said dont put any antibiotic on it...and he will see him in the am to asses the descur.   I want those scurs off...Vet was coming anyway tommorrow for farm visit and that was the first thing on my list..."Get those off"  hate em.  When we bought him last week thats what my husband and I were so discouraged about...None of my others have horns...and this is exactly why!!!  

Thanks for all your help...Although it worked (cayene pepper) to stop the bleed very quick...its quite messy...and I could not wait to wash it out..Never again will I use that.      Anybody reading this...Dont use cayene pepper...I will get my medicine cabinet loaded when the vet comes...Asked my friend who is an old timer, who has been farming for many many years (nice man)..But its a differant world and things that worked for him may not work for me. But I am kind of a modern girl and do believe in modern medicine sometimes too...    Live and learn.....And yes...always something with the goaties!!!


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## Mini-M Ranch (Aug 12, 2010)

guess I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about a scur bleeding.  Just par for the course, IMHO.

Yes, you can use cheyenne to stop bleeding, lots of chicken people use it under the premise that it helps prevent feather picking by stopping the bleeding and discouraging the pecking because the peckee is too spicy.  baking soda too, and even rolled up spiderwebs stop bleeding.  Not kidding.


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## jlbpooh (Aug 12, 2010)

I have had this happen several times. I just finish pulling the scur off because it is usually just hanging there like a child's baby tooth anyway. I then dab the blood off gently and spray it with blu-kote. By the next day, they are back to butting heads, albeit a little more gently.


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## cmjust0 (Aug 12, 2010)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> I will get my medicine cabinet loaded when the vet comes...


You don't need the vet's help for something to stop bleeding...TSC usually has a product called "Blood Stop Powder" right on the shelf.  A whopping $6.

It's good to have, if you need to stop something from bleeding..  

Now that I think of it, I bet that's why they called it what they did.

 

(...on a somewhat funnier note, if you look at the URL for the TSC link, they have blood stop powder buried somewhere under "dog vaccines."  It specifically mentions it's usefulness when dehorning.  I dunno about you guys, but I haven't known many dogs that needed to be dehorned....  )


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## aggieterpkatie (Aug 13, 2010)

Ouch, really, cayenne to stop bleeding?  I want someone to try it on themselves and tell me if it burns.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Aug 13, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> (...on a somewhat funnier note, if you look at the URL for the TSC link, they have blood stop powder buried somewhere under "dog vaccines."  It specifically mentions it's usefulness when dehorning.  I dunno about you guys, but I haven't known many dogs that needed to be dehorned....  )


I'm a groomer so I always have kwik-stop on hand.  Haven't done much dog dehorning but when you're wrestling a 100 lb lab trying to do its nails it's only a matter of time before you hit a quick.  

Never heard of cayenne or baking soda but I have heard of using corn starch.  But kwik-stop should probably be in the first aid kit anyway.  It's cheap and as long as it stays dry it lasts forever.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 13, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> (...on a somewhat funnier note, if you look at the URL for the TSC link, they have blood stop powder buried somewhere under "dog vaccines."  It specifically mentions it's usefulness when dehorning.  I dunno about you guys, but I haven't known many dogs that needed to be dehorned....  )


But Ive known a couple of horny dogs in my time!!!!!

Sorry if anyone is offended!!!  I could resist!!!!    Shutting up now...


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## helmstead (Aug 13, 2010)




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## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)




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## Emmetts Dairy (Aug 13, 2010)

Update on Elias's scur break....Vet came today for all their vaccines etc..and checked his head...the scur cracked low and cut the top of the little guys head too...but hes doing well...thats why there was sooo much blood..Went and got blu-kote, wound stop and iodine last night. Restocked.  But hes doing great and is schdld for a descurring at the end of Sept.  Doc wanted to wait for the end of fly season round here..said its best...and I concur...we do have time..thankfully.  Cant wait to get those scurs off....THANK YOU ALL for your input!!!....And for the debate on neosporin...per my doc...DONT use it on the goats...blue coat or any similar antiseptic spray is best for farm animals...and in a pinch "CORN STARCH' for bleed stop...or clean and wrap...the theory is to try to keep the blood thats coming out close to the site cuz thats where all the coagulants are in the blood there losing is.  Lesson learned.  

Road to recovery is the best road to be on!!! Feeling good today!!!


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## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> And for the debate on neosporin...per my doc...DONT use it on the goats...blue coat or any similar antiseptic spray is best


I actually agree with that..  We keep furazone (and scarlex, actually) for situations where we feel like a little moisture retention will speed healing, and iodine for situations where drying it out/scabbing it over quickly would probably work best.

I kinda reserve blukote* for situations where I feel like there's a fungus amongus.  

Glad things are looking up for you in goatieland today.  


*did I ever tell you guys about the time I sprayed blukote on a baby goat my wife was holding?...and it was windy?...suffice it to say wives generally aren't happy when you apply semi-permanent impromptu make up for them.


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## glenolam (Aug 13, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> TSC usually has a product called "Blood Stop Powder" right on the shelf.  A whopping $6.
> 
> It's good to have, if you need to stop something from bleeding..


If you search for Blood Stop on the TSC website you get what CM said above and also Wonder Dust - I don't know about the Blood Stop, but the Wonder Dust is horrible....maybe I got a bad bottle or something, but it isn't worth crud in my situations.  I got a little carried away hoof trimming the other day (like way carried away) and cut my poor pygmy so good she was limping afterwards.  Tried to apply as much wonder dust as I could and she kept on bleeding.  Maybe it's just not meant for hooves?


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## cmjust0 (Aug 13, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> I got a little carried away hoof trimming the other day (like way carried away) and cut my poor pygmy so good she was limping afterwards.  Tried to apply as much wonder dust as I could and she kept on bleeding.  Maybe it's just not meant for hooves?


I've used blood-stop on a hoof before...it didn't work very well, either.  I've also used blood-stop on a ripped-off baby horn...it worked great.

Maybe it's something about hooves...I dunno.  I cut one bad enough that she was making bloody 'snow cones' everywhere she stood for more than like 10 seconds..

I ended up having to grab her up, SMASH blood-stop powder into her hoof (which she didn't care for), and keep adding...and adding...and adding -- holding her hoof up off the ground the whole time -- until it finally stopped.

That one even got a little banamine and still limped for three or four days.

That's what happens when you're tired, you realize you've forgotten to do _that last one_, and she's little enough that you *think* you can have someone just hold her for a second while you whittle a bit in an unlighted barn around dusk.

:/


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## jodief100 (Aug 13, 2010)

My dog groomer recomends Corn Starch.  This was after a nail trim gone wrong that left bloody paw prints all over the living room carpet, then bloody paw prints all over my car and then bloody paw prints across the Petsmart as I drug him into the groomer in a complete panic.  

And he still stands still for nail trims.....Go figure.  But is terrified of the slippery floor at Petsmart.


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## jlbpooh (Aug 13, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> *did I ever tell you guys about the time I sprayed blukote on a baby goat my wife was holding?...and it was windy?...suffice it to say wives generally aren't happy when you apply semi-permanent impromptu make up for them.


Ha, ha. I accidentally sprayed myself in the face with the Blu-Kote. It was a direct shot. My rooster accidentally skinned part of a hen's back with his spur. I was trying to hold her wing up, hold a flashlight and spray the Blu-Kote on her injury. In trying to do all that, I didn't realize the bottle was pointed in the wrong direction and hit myself right in the center of the face. I rushed into the house after getting the hen fixed, and started I had my glasses on or things could have been even worse yet. I scrubbed so hard that I took a lot of skin off, but there was no way I was going to work the next day with a purple face. My face full of scabs the next morning was bad enough. I work for an engineering firm in a large metro area, and they just wouldn't have understood. Just a warning, make sure it is aimed correctly.


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