# LGD...



## drdoolittle (Aug 14, 2019)

Does anyone use unconventional breeds for guarding livestock or mixed breeds?

What age is too old to start training a dog as an LGD?

Also, does anyone have house dogs and LGDs?  We have 7 house dogs, none of them are LGD breeds, all rescues. I considered training one of them, but don't think that will work as they wpuld only cry and whine to come back to the house.

What are your opinions/thoughts?  We mostly have problems with raccoons/foxes/weasels and have coyotes in the area.

Asking because I'm considering having an LGD, and one pup I have considered is a Catahoula/GSD/Aussie/Lab mix that is 6 months old.  Another issue besides his breed mix is that he has been someone's pet....so don't know if he's even possibly trainable as an LGD....this os Dexter.


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## Baymule (Aug 14, 2019)

What livestock do you have? 

Nope. Nope. Nope. You wouldn’t take a Chihuahua out hunting and retrieving ducks, you would get a hunting breed. You wouldn’t herd cattle with a Labrador. There are specific breeds, bred for hundreds of years, for specific jobs. 

A LGD is a dog bred for hundreds if not for several thousand years to operate independently on his own, protecting his flock. You don’t get that in a mixed breed mutt, comprised of hunting dog breeds. That is a recipe for disaster. 

I have a black Lab/Great Dane that is wonderful with the poultry and sheep. But he is not a LGD. Not even a little bit. Nope. 

If you were accused of a crime, would you hire an attorney or would you rather place your life in the hands of a truck driver because he’s a nice guy and works cheap?


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## Mini Horses (Aug 14, 2019)

Yep, the LGDs have genetics  that make them OCD for watching, patrolling, alerting, taking their charges to safety and protecting with their own lives if a predator continues to approach.  It is  just their "very being".    They prefer to tell a predator "not here" but are ready & willing to confront & kill.   They are always thinking of and watching their herd.  Always.  They think own their on.

While some dogs will alert to a stranger, maybe attack...that is often ALL they do.   Then, relax on the porch. You may be a good "farm dog" from one of yours but, not an LGD.


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## Baymule (Aug 14, 2019)

The best thing you can do is to educate yourself. Read the posts in this forum, study them. There are failures and successes here, learn from them. An LGD is an entity of it's own. Even if you have had 10,000 dogs, you haven't had one like a LGD. 

What are you wanting to be guarded?


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## drdoolittle (Aug 14, 2019)

Baymule said:


> The best thing you can do is to educate yourself. Read the posts in this forum, study them. There are failures and successes here, learn from them. An LGD is an entity of it's own. Even if you have had 10,000 dogs, you haven't had one like a LGD.
> 
> What are you wanting to be guarded?



THANK YOU!! I have pot belly pigs, Nigerian Dwarf goats, a miniature horse and soon a former pony ride pony.

We also have 45 chickens, but are building them a new coop closer to the house with 2 runs (one 10'x10', available at all times and a 30'x32' available for most days (the only times they won't have access to the larger run is if we won't be there to put them in at night, the smaller run is completely enclosed).


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## Beekissed (Aug 14, 2019)

Your dog may make a great farm dog but won't function like a LGD breed when it comes to guarding specific flocks of animals and remaining in the fields with them. 

Coming from being a house dog, it may lack the early instincts and savvy that an outdoor dog learns when just a pup, but you could try it.  It won't work at all if you bring it indoors at night and it won't work if you don't teach it that your chickens are not to be touched. 

A good farm dog will guard the area from predators and if your livestock live in his guard area, he can keep most from touching them.  I have a LGD breed dog that is not much on being a good farm dog...he won't kill small predators at all, he's great at keeping the aerial predators at bay, and does a great job of warding off the coyotes and black bear on our land.  I pair up my LGD dogs with mutts that are good farm dogs so I can get the best of both worlds. 

The catahoula breed is supposed to make for GREAT farm dogs, so it will depend on his prey drive, how good a trainer you are and if you've established pack leadership, if he will perform the way you want in regards to guarding the general property. 

If you have small property and low predator pressure, he might get you through...but there are a lot of "mights" in there.  And, no, he's not considered a true livestock guardian type animal, though he may do an excellent job at guarding the land and driving off most predators, he won't normally bond with the stock so that he stays with them out in the pasture. 

He sure is a beautiful dog! I'd take him out and train him on chickens first, establish a pecking order between you, him and the livestock and just see how it goes.  It never hurts to try and don't let anyone tell you a farm mutt can't keep the coyotes and bear away...I had a lab/BC mix that kept them off my chickens here for years before I got him a LGD breed to help him. 

The right dog can do a lot on a small holding, you just need to find out if you have the right dog.


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## drdoolittle (Aug 14, 2019)

I just found these 2 Pyrennes puppies for sale very close to me!  They are 3 1/2 months old, out of working stock.

Here is part of the ad:
"They have been raised outside as guardians for our small farm. Exposed to chickens, goats, ducks, ponies, small children, and loud vehicles."

If they are available, I am seriously considering getting one!  One is female, one is male.  In everyone's experience, is one sex a better guardian?
The price is great because they had been held for someone who never picked them up!
"


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## frustratedearthmother (Aug 14, 2019)

That might be the answer to your dilemma!


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## Baymule (Aug 14, 2019)

Just get one, you don't need them both. LGDs will not bond with poultry, but will consider them part of their domain, thus protecting them. Poultry makes fun toys to play with, you must be diligent in your training. Don't tempt a pup past what it can endure. Let the poultry out under your supervision or take the pup in the coop, praising good behavior, making it clear that the birds are YOURS and he is not to play with them.

Male or female? Whatever personality you are comfortable with. Females come in heat and must be put up. Males smell females in heat and want to go get themselves a girlfriend. I recommend spay or neuter, no less than 18 months old, large dogs need their hormones to attain full growth.


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## Beekissed (Aug 14, 2019)

Side note and I wish someone had told me this before I got Ben neutered....that oft times LGD breeds can develop fear of loud noises after neutering.   Mine did and it's rendered him pretty useless when it thunders, when guns are shot(he'll take off for the next county, no matter what electric boundary is in his way), etc. 

At those times...and that's often around here...he has to be tied.  A tied dog can't protect livestock very well.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 14, 2019)

LGD's are dogs still, which are pack animals. They play together, works their skills, and work as a team. 
More issues come along with having only 1. The dog gets blamed, then it gets rehomed.
Getting one dog opens you up for way more issues with behaviors undesirable. Dog goes off wondering, escapes, chases livestock etc.



Beekissed said:


> Side note and I wish someone had told me this before I got Ben neutered....that oft times LGD breeds can develop fear of loud noises after neutering.


It is not unique to LGD breeds, it is all breeds, typically male. There has been no correlation however to spayed females.


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## drdoolittle (Aug 18, 2019)

Well, I did not get those 2 pyr pups....I think someone else bought them this weekend (they already had made arrangements to look at them). It's fine, because the person selling them told me they were both female.

I have been reading as much as possible on  LGDs (mainly about Pyrenees) and it is recommended to have 2, one of each sex.  I can't seem remember the source, but one author advises this because same sex pairs almost always end up fighting with each other......serious fights.

I'd like to hear from more members of BYH as far as their own personal experiences with LGDs.....specifically what they have found to be pros/cons of their own situations concerning keeping 1 vs.2 LGDs, how far they would travel what they are looking for, age they recommend acquiring the dogs and same or opposite sex pairs.

I have found someone 4 hrs from me with a male/female pair of puppies that are working stock and have been living with chickens/peacocks/ducks/pigs/sheep/cows successfully. Both parents are on site.
The price is in my range and I'm planning on driving down this weekend......I could say "Just to look", but with all things seeming exactly what I want, that's probably a lie.

I still would like as much advice as possible because I value other livestock/LGD keepers opinions.......For your enjoyment, a pic of one of the puppies from this litter....as well as pics of the parents.


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## Baymule (Aug 19, 2019)

Those are some cute pups! I have 2 GP’s, love them. The female is fierce, kills snakes, leaps in the air snapping at hawks and will kill any invader in her space. The male is more laid back. Both defend their territory, Sheep and chickens. 

My education came from this forum. Read all the threads you can. There is a lot of information here. Start a journal for your pups in the LGD forum. Ask questions, you will get answers. People here want to help you, your dogs, and your animals that need protection.


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## drdoolittle (Aug 19, 2019)

Came to ANOTHER decision today!  We decided the second set of pups is just too far to travel.  What if they aren't really what we expected?  It would be an 8 hour round trip. I know that might not be a big deal to some, but that's a long time in a vehicle for me. 

There has also been a spot of worry in my brain about getting 2 LGDs that are just puppies.  First, I have a horrible raccoon problem.....would they attack the puppies?  I know an adult raccoon can seriously injure a full-grown dog....I also really want some progress now in cutting down the raccoon population...puppies won't do that right away. 

 So I started thinking about finding an adult pyr that is already trained with livestock and also get a youngish puppy.....that way the adult can teach and protect the puppy and when the adult gets older/passes, I'll still have one trained adult and can add a puppy for it to train.  

I didn't see many other pyrs close by, so I picked up the local trader paper this morning.  I scanned the puppy section (many puppy ads, only 1 for pyrs....which turned out to be Pyrenees/Great Danes...)
I went on to the adult dog section....no pyrs..

Finally,  I thought, "May as well quickly look at the free pets section."..not expecting to find anything.  But the third ad was for a FREE 5 year old female Pyrenees!  I called the number and made sure to ask, "Is she been a house dog or a working dog?", hoping the man would answer honestly, not knowing what I was looking for.  She is indeed a working dog, has lived outdoors her entire life with any kind of farm animal you can think of!  They are rehoming her because they have her loose on part of their property that isn't fenced and she keeps getting out in the road and chasing motorcycles or bicyclists.  They have already had the sheriff called once or twice and been warned.  They want her to go.to someone who will really love her and who has livestock for her to guard.  The man also told me they have 4 of her pups (2 male, 2 female) for sale/ready to go!  And they are only 45 min from me!  I think this is what I have been looking for! 

 Both are up to date on all vaccines and I will have the momma spayed asap.  I won't worry so much about little puppies out there at the mercy of angry raccoons!  Mom can help with training and by the time she is 10, he will only be 5.

I know a lot of you might be thinking, "OMG!!  You are SO wishy-washy and don't REALLY know WHAT you want!"  Yes, I did get VERY excited about both sets of those pups and wanted to rush right out and buy each pair in turn.  BUT, there was that little, bothersome feeling of neither set being right for me....


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## Baymule (Aug 19, 2019)

*LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
 That is even better! You are not wishy washy at all. You listened to that tiny inner voice that told you this is not the right dog(s) for you…….. 
 And what do you know? There she was, just waiting on you to find her.  It just doesn't get any better than that. Now instead of you muddling along, trying your best to train a pup, you have a mature dog that will train YOU. You have already shown that you have the intuitive inner feelings that are like an extra sense and that is so valuable when you have animals. It is even more valuable when you have LGDs. You are about to embark on the journey of a lifetime.


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 19, 2019)

If your feelin it go for it...you are pretty dog experienced  with 7 house dogs....
LGD's are independent  thinkers, you need to partner with them, talk with them and build trust.....don't  expect them to behave like your house dogs, these creatures are thinkers. Read all you can about the breed and spend time in your field / pasture with your .LGD. let them know you work together.....
Ask questions and post pictures when you get them, good luck


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## drdoolittle (Aug 19, 2019)

Baymule said:


> *LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> That is even better! You are not wishy washy at all. You listened to that tiny inner voice that told you this is not the right dog(s) for you……..
> And what do you know? There she was, just waiting on you to find her.  It just doesn't get any better than that. Now instead of you muddling along, trying your best to train a pup, you have a mature dog that will train YOU. You have already shown that you have the intuitive inner feelings that are like an extra sense and that is so valuable when you have animals. It is even more valuable when you have LGDs. You are about to embark on the journey of a lifetime.


I am EXTREMELY excited about happening upon this adult Pyrenees needing a home!  Being active in dog rescue my entire life, I have always balked at buying a puppy from a breeder.  I was feeling a little guilty about buying purebreed pyr puppies.....although I do fully understand that there are circumstances (similar to mine) that warrant buying a purebreed puppy.  I needed an LGD breed.....a dog I would be confident in leaving loose with my livestock.  Finding this girl needing a safe, loving home with a job for her to do just seems meant to be!


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## drdoolittle (Aug 19, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> If your feelin it go for it...you are pretty dog experienced  with 7 house dogs....
> LGD's are independent  thinkers, you need to partner with them, talk with them and build trust.....don't  expect them to behave like your house dogs, these creatures are thinkers. Read all you can about the breed and spend time in your field / pasture with your .LGD. let them know you work together.....
> Ask questions and post pictures when you get them, good luck


Thank you!  I can't wait to meet them on Saturday!!


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 19, 2019)

drdoolittle said:


> Thank you!  I can't wait to meet them on Saturday!!
> 
> [/QUOTE.       VERY excited and happy for you, please keep us posted and pictures of yor new fur baby


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## germanchickTX (Aug 21, 2019)

Hi, I actually would not recommend two pups and/or siblings at the same time, they are or may be bonded too much together instead bonding with you as their Shepard.
Plus you will need separate training time for each of them, that’s a lot of time.
And even if they come from good working parents, they still need training and guidance.
I very much would recommend to search on FB or MeWe for the (closed) group „Farei Kennels LGD Training & Education“.
You will have to answer some entry questions before you get approved.
This group is awesome, their philosophy and methods work. They are for people that truly want to learn and put the time in; and tell it as it is, no Sugar coating.
Check it out!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 21, 2019)

germanchickTX said:


> Hi, I actually would not recommend two pups and/or siblings at the same time, they are or may be bonded too much together instead bonding with you as their Shepard.
> Plus you will need separate training time for each of them, that’s a lot of time.
> And even if they come from good working parents, they still need training and guidance.
> I very much would recommend to search on FB or MeWe for the (closed) group „Farei Kennels LGD Training & Education“.
> ...



WRONG! Two pups at the same time alleviate many issues. However there still needs dedication in working a with both. They are not each other's babysitters. They also should be evaluated and matched /paired properly. I am not a great fan of siblings but if your breeder has knowledge then the dogs paired will do well.
As far as I am concerned the Groups on FB and the like are crap. The majority of people know nothing and spread *&^*&^.

PACK ANIMALS! They learn from one another, Encourage one another.  These aren't housedogs. 
The majority of issues is from single dog farms. No shepherd of old- over thousands of years raised one dog at a time.


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## drdoolittle (Aug 21, 2019)

germanchickTX said:


> Hi, I actually would not recommend two pups and/or siblings at the same time, they are or may be bonded too much together instead bonding with you as their Shepard.
> Plus you will need separate training time for each of them, that’s a lot of time.
> And even if they come from good working parents, they still need training and guidance.
> I very much would recommend to search on FB or MeWe for the (closed) group „Farei Kennels LGD Training & Education“.
> ...




I understand where you're coming from.....but I ultimately decided AGAINST 2 puppies (siblings or not) and am getting a  fully trained 5 year old female Pyrenees and one of her pups.


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## drdoolittle (Aug 26, 2019)

I brought my LGDs home yesterday morning and am so THRILLED with them!  Momma is a beautiful 5 year old Great Pyrenees, Sheba.  I named her pup (a male) Hondo.  They are such amazing dogs!  Hondo's father is an Anatolian----I was afraid to get out of the car at the owner's home, but he's just a giant sweetheart!
Sheba and Hondo are so calm!  No barking/whining while in their kennel and I had them out with the goats, chickens and barn cats for a couple hours last night----no chasing at all!  
I should have taken this step a long time ago!  Pictures coming soon!


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 26, 2019)

drdoolittle said:


> I brought my LGDs home yesterday morning and am so THRILLED with them!  Momma is a beautiful 5 year old Great Pyrenees, Sheba.  I named her pup (a male) Hondo.  They are such amazing dogs!  Hondo's father is an Anatolian----I was afraid to get out of the car at the owner's home, but he's just a giant sweetheart!
> Sheba and Hondo are so calm!  No barking/whining while in their kennel and I had them out with the goats, chickens and barn cats for a couple hours last night----no chasing at all!
> I should have taken this step a long time ago!  Pictures coming soon!


So happy for you.....


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## Baymule (Aug 26, 2019)

The dogs will have a good home with you. You are about to start the most amazing part of your life.


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