# Diagnosis question



## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 16, 2010)

I met a neighbor last night who has an issue with one of his goats that made me curious.  He has a 2 year old boer doe who's rear end is too weak to stand.  He said that when he picks up her back end she stretches her legs straight out but is unable to use them.  He's had her spine and hips x-rayed at a local vet who could find no abnormalities on the radiographs.  The vet has given her several injections of something (owner wasn't sure what) in the spine and hips to no avail.  She's been like this for about a week.  The vet suspects she ingested something toxic that caused paralysis but he's really just guessing.  He searched the pasture and did find a couple wild cherry saplings.  The doe is alert, will rise into a sitting position, and is otherwise eating normally, chewing her cud, ect.

I'm sure more info is needed, I just thought it could be a good learning experience to bat around some possibilities.  If there's something obvious the vet might of missed I'll pass on the idea.  He's hesitant to euthanize since she's eating well and doesn't seem to be in pain, but if there's no improvement soon he'll have to start considering it.


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2010)

Menegial worm?  I'm sure I misspelled that...


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## Calliopia (Dec 16, 2010)

I second this.  A friend's lamancha started stumbling a bit, didn't have great control of her back end.  Due to the number of deer on the property both the vet and I suggested meningeal worms.  A course of Ivermectin and some tlc and she was right as rain.  Occasionally gets a funny gait in her back legs but essentially she's cured.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 16, 2010)

Oh wow, that's a good guess...  I don't suppose soft-bodied things show up in radiographs do they?


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2010)

LOL Nope


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 16, 2010)

As soon as it thaws out enough for me to drive I will run over there and pass on the idea.  We only met because about 15 vehicles (including my own) had to wait 2 hours parked between 2 completely impassable hills a few miles from home until the roads became passable.  Freezing rain made the roads a solid sheet of ice!  Ugh, this weather...


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## ()relics (Dec 16, 2010)

I have no personal experience with this parasite, only second hand.  If 1 goat has menegial worms there is a good chance all the goats in the herd have them.  Ivomec is a good treatment but it has to be given in a REALLY strong dose to be effective. It seems odd to me that it waited to show up until the winter...Sometimes...repeat SOMETIMES during the winter, especially when there is a snow cover and you said you just had a good snow, a goat/horse/cow doesn't have enough available forage, hay.  So they go out exploring For Something To EAT...Sometimes they find something that usually they wouldn't eat but circumstances dictate that they eat it now...So possible neurotoxin ingestion from, say, moldy hay from under a bunk...When you arrive on the scene take note if there is plenty of hay and check the condition of the other goats then make your conclusion from there...A good Ivo dose won't hurt anything..


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## ksalvagno (Dec 16, 2010)

I can speak from eperience that not all the goats will have it. Your friend needs to get Safeguard into that goat dosed at 1cc per 7 pounds for 5 days straight along with a dose of Ivomec. With a week going by already, that isn't good but Safeguard needs to get into that goat asap if there is any chance of saving it. Only a spinal tap can confirm meningeal worm.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 16, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> Sometimes...repeat SOMETIMES during the winter, especially when there is a snow cover and you said you just had a good snow, a goat/horse/cow doesn't have enough available forage, hay.  So they go out exploring For Something To EAT...Sometimes they find something that usually they wouldn't eat but circumstances dictate that they eat it now...So possible neurotoxin ingestion from, say, moldy hay from under a bunk...When you arrive on the scene take note if there is plenty of hay and check the condition of the other goats then make your conclusion from there...A good Ivo dose won't hurt anything..


This was my first thought too when he said the vet suspected something ingested.

Thanks for the replies folks, I'll pass it on!


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## Roll farms (Dec 16, 2010)

I agree about not all getting it...  

We lost a llama to it many moons ago out of 9 total.  He was the ONLY one who had the problem....in 3 yrs of them living in the same pasture.

Had another friend in So. IN w/ 25 llamas, he lost one to it.

My horse vet had me rotating dewormers, not using ivomec during the 'dangerous' months to prevent menengeal.

He was my favorite, w/out him (also the herdsire) my heart went out of llamas altogether.

The treatment we tried (it failed...but he was pretty far gone w/ it when we tried this) was to shave his back, coat his spine w/ dmso and inject ivomec directly into his spine.  After 10 days we put him down and broke my heart to pieces.

RIP Oak Lane Frosty Mahogany...I still miss you.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 16, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> RIP Oak Lane Frosty Mahogany...I still miss you.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 16, 2010)

Dr David Anderson who was at Ohio State University did a very indepth study on Meningeal worm on alpacas and llamas. That is how I got my dosing for Safeguard. He had found that Ivomec was great for prevention but not treatment. Safeguard is the one that treats once the animal has it. This study was done probably 7-10 years ago.

I haven't had any alpacas with meningeal worm myself but I have cared for them for other people and friends have had the problem. My one friend lost her alpaca because the vet didn't think of meningeal worm and her alpaca was treated for pain for 2-3 weeks. By the time meningeal worm was thought about, it was too late and treatment didn't work. I learned my lesson from her and when I saw an alpaca hobbling on their back legs and didn't know the reason why, they got the safeguard treatment along with banamine. More than likely they never had it but a little safeguard versus losing an animal was worth it for me.

If your friend hasn't done it yet, I would get banamine into that goat too.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 16, 2010)

Thanks Karen!


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## cmjust0 (Dec 17, 2010)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> The vet has given her several injections of something (owner wasn't sure what) in the spine and hips to no avail.


I'd bet money it was a corticosteroid, and was given just in case she has some kind of spinal cord inflammation.

Anyhow, the reason that could be important is because if the goat's getting corticosteroids for whatever this is, and it's still alive, it's probably not an infection...else it would be much worse/dead...because corticosteroids are immune system killers.

May not be important anyway.  I dunno.  

Really does sound like physical damage to the spinal cord, though, be it from the outside in (regular ol' back injury) or the inside out (worms, etc).  

The only other thing that causes 'swayback' -- that I'm aware of, anyway -- is a severe copper deficiency, but I doubt that to be the case here based on what's been said.  I think you usually see 'ataxia' first with copper issues, and ataxia means weak legs...not dead legs.  If this one's been completely unable to use it's legs from a certain point in time on forward, that sounds more like full-on bilateral paresis.  A 'parapalegic goat,' in other words.

Again...would lean toward physical injury.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 17, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> n.smithurmond said:
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> 
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This is what I was guessing too.  

I ran over there yesterday after it thawed somewhat, but I didn't have time to go to the barn to see the goat.  Just passed on the suggestions and an article on menengial worms.  He did say they were only wormed once this summer.  He's been following the advice of another producer and using FAMACHA.  He's had the two goats and a calf on about 1/2 acre pasture since Spring.

I told him I was interested to know the cause if they do figure it out.  I'll post here if I find out.


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