# Coronavirus Covid-19 Is it Affecting You and How?



## Baymule

This Coronavirus has people scared, buying up all the toilet paper and hand sanitizer in sight. Was just wondering how this is affecting the herd? Is anybody stocking up for a lockdown? If you are, what are you doing? We pretty much stay stocked up, but could probably get a few more bags of dog food and animal feed. 

There are 2 cases in my home county and 1 case in a neighboring county. The "experts" are saying that 70% of the population will get the coronavirus, most with little symptoms. I am sort of a contrarian, if that's the case, then why not just get on out there and get it and get it over with? It seems to be coming anyway, not an "if" but a "when." 

So, what are your thoughts on this? Please, no political or conspiracy crap.


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## Jesusfreak101

We the same we tend to shop for an entire month then stay home. We need son e more feed but i also but that in bulk just because i don't like shopping with kids also because i spend less when i go less. I tend to think if it's just like a cold which is what the symptoms seem to mimic i am not sure why everyone freaking out. I am not interested in getting sick or my kids getting sick no matter the illness but i refuse to be afraid of something that may or may not happen. I more prone not to stress or worry over what i have no control over.


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## B&B Happy goats

We have prepared the same as we do during hurricane  season...water, ez meals, animal feed etc. We have cancelled all apointments that we both had and are just staying home, mostly because we are trying to recover from a bug that we are trying to get over and Leon's other health issues. We fit into the " senior " category,  lol, so we are probably being a little more cautious ....


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## Duckfarmerpa1

B&B Happy goats said:


> We have prepared the same as we do during hurricane  season...water, ez meals, animal feed etc. We have cancelled all apointments that we both had and are just staying home, mostly because we are trying to recover from a bug that we are trying to get over and Leon's other health issues. We fit into the " senior " category,  lol, so we are probably being a little more cautious ....


I’m glad that you are being cautious...you guys have your hands full, and you were running into a lot of possible unhealthy peopl3 at dr facilities.  Please take care!


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Well, I was heck bent on going to visit my Aunt at the nursing hom3 yesterday, until I heard it was closed.  We are going to an auction on Saturday to try to ge5 some good farming stuff.  My son is furious his college is closed.  It jus5 occurred to me that my whole family, except us,  is supposed to go to Vegas n3xt month for my Dad’s 80th birthday.  I’m going * to try to talk them out of that.  As for me...I’m not worried.  I feel healthy and strong.  If it kills me, well, I’ve been very happy this last year.  Im not goin* to live in fear either...I can’t...I tend to worry, as if you didn’t already know    So, I don5 need extra stress, or I will get sick from something else.  I think it’s terrible...absolutely awful.  But, there’s not one thing I can do about it.  So, I’m goin* to continue.  We don’t very many places.  We already buy feed by the ton.  If we buy more, it will get moldy.  I do hope that all the people that I care about...and that includes every person reading this!!  Will take the necessary precautions and just be safe while we ride this out together!!


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## Baymule

I just checked stock market. Don’t have a lot, but it’s down by half. I suppose the saving grace is the dividends will buy more shares. 
WTH.


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## Beekissed

The only way it's affecting us thus far is that they won't let anyone visit the nursing homes, so we can't go and tend to my Dad....this irks me to no end, but this national fear is driving the bus, so I understand their actions.  

I tend to ignore all the hoohaw about such things.   Remember the big toilet paper scare back in the 70s when folks went out and bought up all the TP?   This is sort of going to result in the same thing...as this or that person says they are hurrying out to buy up this or that item, more will get uneasy about not finding it, so there will be a run on that item, etc.   

Folks just need to calm down and use some sense.


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## frustratedearthmother

Jesusfreak101 said:


> I tend to think if it's just like a cold which is what the symptoms seem to mimic


For the young and healthy it might not be much worse than a cold.  But, it's not a cold.  For those of us who have accumulated some years and others who have accumulated some health challenges it can be deadly.  I don't think anybody is in panic mode - but it pays to be cognizant of things going on around you so that you can be proactive instead of reactive.


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## CraftyHen

Baymule said:


> This Coronavirus has people scared, buying up all the toilet paper and hand sanitizer in sight. Was just wondering how this is affecting the herd? Is anybody stocking up for a lockdown? If you are, what are you doing? We pretty much stay stocked up, but could probably get a few more bags of dog food and animal feed.
> 
> There are 2 cases in my home county and 1 case in a neighboring county. The "experts" are saying that 70% of the population will get the coronavirus, most with little symptoms. I am sort of a contrarian, if that's the case, then why not just get on out there and get it and get it over with? It seems to be coming anyway, not an "if" but a "when."
> 
> So, what are your thoughts on this? Please, no political or conspiracy crap.


There are no cases in my small town that we know of, or even in areas close by but local stores have sold out of bleach, bleach-wipes and even bleach based bathroom cleaners.  Until your post, I had not considered putting up extra dogfood. Better do that.


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## OneFineAcre

I was supposed to travel by plane next week for work.  But, my company instructed us to avoid non essential domestic air travel and prohibited international air travel without executive management approval.
We are doing a test next week to have 25% of my division work from home.  We all have remote capability and working from home sometimes is a perk.  But, this is to test if our capabilities.


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## Jesusfreak101

Here some links aviut the virus https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/index.html https://www.who.int/health-topics/coronavirus


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## rachels.haven

School is canceled tomorrow. Husband is working from home. I've put in orders for more dog and cat food and stocked up on the goat and poultry stuff. Don't look at the stock market for the next little while. It's terrible, as previously mentioned.

I'm glad we always have plenty of TP and hand sanitizer because it looks like the whole world out there is getting ready for a massive case of norovirus instead of coronavirus.

Here's the CDC's reporting page. We're up to 101-200 in Massachusetts.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-in-us.html

This is also happening here. Scary. The state is denying doctors and therefore patients tests as they begin to see themselves running out in the near future. 
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/03...unts-coronavirus-response-boston-doctors-say/

Honestly we just need to stay home and slow the spread until the hospitals are more ready to give supportive care to those who need it. Me and my family should be fine-we're young-but we have friends we care for that aren't and I'm very worried for them.
I think we are locking down here and having a staycation for as long as the state will allow me to keep my kid home (so far it's only tomorrow so they can "deep clean" and they notified all parents in the district that if we keep our kids home at our discretion not under the department of health's instruction we must withdraw our kids from school and begin a homeschool curriculum as per state law, lol).

We might walk around in the woods and do some trails in the woods behind our house with the dog if the coyotes aren't in the immediate area as the kids are already bouncing off the walls but that is as public as I'd like it to be in the near future.


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## Jesusfreak101

@rachels.haven If your interested in homeschopling there alot of really good marterial out there. Plus it's alot of fun if you ask me some days are horrid through so warning ahead of time. Those days are either fight days or surrender and move on days. There are a few of us on here that homeschool if you decide to go for it we would like to help if we can.


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## rachels.haven

No, my kid doesn't have the disposition for it. I really wish he did, but he needs mass peer pressure to remember to be a decent human being as opposed to a forever 2 monster and we, his family, don't cut it as people to him. His younger brother might excel in homeschool, but until I get really, really mad at the over-reaching, micromanaging fathead (minnows, because calling names is mean) officials I'd like to save the homeschooling option for a later-maybe when kid 2 is a little older. 

I was a homeschool kid as my family moved around. I graduated top of my class through a correspondence school and got my accredited diploma and went to college, but while I was homeschooling, I saw it done well, I saw it done poorly, and I saw some kids and/or parents just couldn't cut it. The right combination of people and factors are necessary and I don't think he/we have that in our team.

But, oh my gosh, this place is starting to push my buttons. Lol, don't ever tell me I can't keep my kid home when it's a question of his and our family's health, lol. That is probably why they canceled school friday an hour after the email was sent out. I'm willing to bet some angry parents called up in decent numbers and made a HUGE fuss...as huge of a fuss as I wanted to, except I was out feeding ducks and bitterly contemplating moving. (eat those pellets, duck minions, eat those...stupid pompous school officials, nom, nom, nom).


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## High Desert Cowboy

No TP anywhere.  Maybe I should invest in a bidet?  Some schools up north are canceling classes for several weeks and the governor has asked no get togethers of more than 100 people.  So far we have 3 cases up north and fortunately none down here yet.  I think the biggest risk to us is my wife, she works at a restaurant right on I-15 that sees a lot of customers from out of state.  But so far so good.  I’ve stated elsewhere my biggest concern is how this will affect people in agriculture who have to quarantine.  Most of the farmers and ranchers I know Only have a small portion of their land and animals by their home and need to travel 1-30 miles til get to the rest.  What happens in those situations?  I drive 40 miles to my pig barn, and a friends cows are out there calving right now, what about them?


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## rachels.haven

I vote yes on the bidet! I think ours was only $30 a few years ago. It's probably up with current events, but eventually it may go down in price.

The engineer in me wants to test this on my kids. If we ever had more kids I could pick it up and use it on cloth diapers or tiny bums too.
https://badicalindustries.wordpress...det-install-a-kitchen-sprayer-in-your-toilet/

...or for enforcement when kids refuse to get out of the bathtub...


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## High Desert Cowboy

Interesting new development.  I don’t know how it will be for people of other denominations but our church just suspended all meetings for the forseeable future.


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## Baymule

Our daughter and son in law are 2 hours from home! They went to Aruba, we were getting worried that they would get caught up in a quarantine mess.


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## rachels.haven

Almost home!


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## Beekissed

High Desert Cowboy said:


> Interesting new development.  I don’t know how it will be for people of other denominations but our church just suspended all meetings for the forseeable future.



That's pretty sad.  You'd think churches would increase meetings, considering the circumstances.


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## Beekissed

Not sure why the run on TP?(pun intended)   No symptoms of diarrhea have been listed....


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## rachels.haven

Our faith isn't in our ward buildings and meetings. It's in our hearts. We can practice most of our faith at home. No need to up the chance that the older or at risk congregation members get it from there and wind up in serious peril. Plus, we are assigned other people and families in the ward to talk to and look out for in rough times. We are far from cut off from church. I still feel cared for.

...come to think of it I should probably go check up on MY assigned families. One had a father stationed overseas, the other was already dealing with stuff.

My siblings were all going to gather in Nashville. I wasn't going but that's off now. No getting stuck somewhere!


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## Simpleterrier

School has been cancelled for three weeks for pre-12.
All the stores are about empty tp is gone milk is gone any kind of sanitizer is gone. All the college kids are sent home for two weeks. My son is in 1st and he has to do online work for the next three weeks then he has spring break for a week my daughter's pre School is closed . They are talking about state wide shut down except for medical offices/ hospitals and grocery stores. We wanna know who's paying the bills if we can't work for 2-3 weeks. 

I'm gonna stock up on cracked corn for feed and maybe get some more hay. We did a quick check we have enough food for two months and enough of a dog and enough rounds to keep it if it comes to that.

Government don't want people in groups bigger than 100. So church might be cancelled.

By the way I think it is a joke or scam or something. I don't know what. But I don't panic. And this is pissing me off. It better be something if nothing happens I know a lot of mad people.


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## Baymule

I’m not in a panic, maybe because we are always pretty much stocked up anyway. I do need Feed though. Bad time to have 2 feeder pigs and 50  Cornish Cross chicks. LOL


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## Mini Horses

Beekissed said:


> Not sure why the run on TP?(pun intended)   No symptoms of diarrhea have been listed....




I was told, by an employee who had asked buyers, many were making face masks....so, needed more for that.  IDK  That & some tape could be fashioned into that.  Only thing I've heard.   But, yes, TP is going out the door fast as sanitizers!  LOL

As to the virus, yep, a strong flu which can be hard for older or anyone with a weak immune system.  Lot of those out there!   And I will say that the "talk" among buyers has been about precaution with washing all items that are being advised to do.

Personally I am well stocked with everything most mention for sanitation, first aid, etc.   Animal feed will be replenished tomorrow on normal schedule.   I will add some extra in case any of the future shipments get held with down time at any factories, truckers, etc.   Here, in another month, the grasses will be plentiful and most feed needs will drop dramatically for 6-7 months.   Plus, I have farmers who will sell feed if I need it.

Freezers are full, canned goods plentiful, staples in good supply.  I can make good bread & biscuits.   Five goats in milk -- lots of milk, cheese, butter, cream -- hens laying way more than we need.  Enough seed to grow plenty for family and entire neighborhood, actually....and animals, too.  

Precautions are taken.  I'm sure not panicking.   I am more concerned about the trickle down if enough job situations close, stores with no stock shut down, etc...and how people will manage with/for that.   Not everyone has enough food in house for more than a week or so, sadly.  Some things will have more effect than the virus.   Any on prescriptions may be in real trouble.


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## bethh

Well, last week I ordered more animal feed all around.   Wondering now if I should buy extra.   Went out and stocked up on half and half and coffee.  I’m going to make thieves oil spray and wipes for sanitation purposes.


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## Grant

I don’t see grocery stores or pharmacies closing.  I have a little more than normal, but the grass is growing for the cattle already and I am taking them off of winter feed already anyway.  My wife has CLL, a slow growth leukemia. We are vigilant anyway about cleanliness.  Honestly it seems like she gets less than I do.  We have our 1st case in our area.


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## Grant

Mini Horses said:


> I was told, by an employee who had asked buyers, many were making face masks....so, needed more for that.  IDK  That & some tape could be fashioned into that.  Only thing I've heard.   But, yes, TP is going out the door fast as sanitizers!  LOL
> 
> As to the virus, yep, a strong flu which can be hard for older or anyone with a weak immune system.  Lot of those out there!   And I will say that the "talk" among buyers has been about precaution with washing all items that are being advised to do.
> 
> Personally I am well stocked with everything most mention for sanitation, first aid, etc.   Animal feed will be replenished tomorrow on normal schedule.   I will add some extra in case any of the future shipments get held with down time at any factories, truckers, etc.   Here, in another month, the grasses will be plentiful and most feed needs will drop dramatically for 6-7 months.   Plus, I have farmers who will sell feed if I need it.
> 
> Freezers are full, canned goods plentiful, staples in good supply.  I can make good bread & biscuits.   Five goats in milk -- lots of milk, cheese, butter, cream -- hens laying way more than we need.  Enough seed to grow plenty for family and entire neighborhood, actually....and animals, too.
> 
> Precautions are taken.  I'm sure not panicking.   I am more concerned about the trickle down if enough job situations close, stores with no stock shut down, etc...and how people will manage with/for that.   Not everyone has enough food in house for more than a week or so, sadly.  Some things will have more effect than the virus.   Any on prescriptions may be in real trouble.


TP face masks and face masks in general will do nothing to slow this down.   More than 50% will get it.  Hope when it happens it is a mild case.


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## Missing_Peace_Farm

We haven't done anything but reading for the past two years. this is our first comment.  the only thing we have seen related to COVID-19 is a minor panic in buying up TP and cleaning supplies. a few local closing off of nursing homes for the protection of seniors.

We are a hobby farmers and have small acreage.  we bought in the path of progress and it is close to paying off.  we have a generous offer to close very soon.  this time we are moving so far out that we are coming out on the other side---literally half way between two small towns east/west and a little further apart to two smaller towns north/south in South Central Texas.

our main interest is truck gardening, with chickens, Nigerian Dwarf goats, a donkey, dogs and lots of cats.

we are better prepared than most.  we have a year supply of canned and dehydrated food. an abundant supply of eggs.  

as mentioned in the first paragraph the supply chain problems are minor.  keep you posted on that.  just going to hunker down and weather the storm.  Mostly worried about the political fallout.

living the dream on the small country farm

Farmer How


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## Jesusfreak101

I am getting more concerned about all the closers and how they are going to effect everyone. That's more scary to me. I guess i could understand closing everything more for a much worse bug but not for something like this. I have family who lives in tiny apartments they only have enough for maybe a week. That's bugs me alot and i mention before i come from a family who burns cash they just got the next day so it's nerve racking on that note as well as they don't have any kind of savings.


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## Duckfarmerpa1

Unfortunately, I fit in with the weak immune system...have auto immune...but...I’m still being optimistic!!  I did put a post on the coffe thread about a podcast we listened to from a scientist involved in the vaccine.  My family cancelled the Vegas trip..,yeah!   Our stock market guy called us personally to tell us how much we lost.  For once, Chris didn’t care!!  What?!  I sure did!!  But, Chris said that he’s not taking the sticks out, so eventually they will go back up.  We don’t need the money, so, for us, it’s , hopefully, ok....I mean, we don’t need that money now..you know?  In case you don’t get a chance to read my post on the coffee thread...the biggest thing the scientist said...this is not going to be over in a month.  He said they could have a vaccine tomorrow, but they have no way to prove it’s safe down the line.  That takes time.  So, he said, be prepared for at least 3-6, maybe more, of this....he also said...the people who are super freaked out, need to calm down, but the people who aren’t worried, need to get concerned.  So, while I’m concerned, I’m trying to keep my stress low...as we all know that stress drags us down.


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## Baymule

Missing_Peace_Farm said:


> We haven't done anything but reading for the past two years. this is our first comment.  the only thing we have seen related to COVID-19 is a minor panic in buying up TP and cleaning supplies. a few local closing off of nursing homes for the protection of seniors.
> 
> We are a hobby farmers and have small acreage.  we bought in the path of progress and it is close to paying off.  we have a generous offer to close very soon.  this time we are moving so far out that we are coming out on the other side---literally half way between two small towns east/west and a little further apart to two smaller towns north/south in South Central Texas.
> 
> our main interest is truck gardening, with chickens, Nigerian Dwarf goats, a donkey, dogs and lots of cats.
> 
> we are better prepared than most.  we have a year supply of canned and dehydrated food. an abundant supply of eggs.
> 
> as mentioned in the first paragraph the supply chain problems are minor.  keep you posted on that.  just going to hunker down and weather the storm.  Mostly worried about the political fallout.
> 
> living the dream on the small country farm
> 
> Farmer How


Welcome to the forum. I also lurked here for awhile before joining. This is a wonderful site with lots of nice people, I hope you stick around and that we get to know you. Good luck on selling your place for a tidy profit and moving on to somewhere else more to your liking. Would love to hear more about you and your farm. If you like, you could go to the new members forum and introduce yourself. Glad to have you here.


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## JimLad

We're pretty well prepared year round.
On our own well and septic so we keep large bottles of water in each bathroom to facilitate flushing if the power goes out. (which it frequently does) I have about eight large bottles and refill them once in a while. Beats buying water.
There's also the outside cook shack which I use all summer. Four bottles of propane and a Steel Keg, Charcoal BBQ.
The only thing I did buy specifically to deal with the current "Scare" is 12 crossbow arrows and 12 broadheads.
Like most of us here, we have plenty of livestock should the need arise.
We also happen to be overrun with Blacktail Deer.
I'm in a couple of church choirs which, for the moment are day to day.
My biggest challenge so far?
The NHL season is on hold.
I'd say we're pretty lucky.
Be safe, people.
P.S. I do spend a lot of time trying to figure out what to believe.


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## Ridgetop

High Desert Cowboy said:


> No TP anywhere. Maybe I should invest in a bidet?
> QUOTE]
> 
> Or maybe a bucket and a hose?     That would really wake you up!
> 
> No toilet paper here either.  DS1 just tried 5 stores all out.  Luckily future DIL ordered some on Amazon.  Hope it gets here.  Too bad Sears doesn't publish a catalogue any more - I could hang one from a hay rope in each bathroom!  Rustic chic!


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## Ridgetop

We need to get hay, but raining like mad here so don't want to bring any home unless we can load it into the shed dry.  On the other hand, we can bring it home in the stock trailer and tarp it.  Also need more rolled barley corn for the lambs that need to fatten just a bit before going off to the butcher in a few weeks.  For some reason Chewy says the dog food we order is out of stock?  I don't know why people would stock up on dog food instead of people food.

I had to increase my autoship order of dog food which os when I noticed they were out of stock on my brand.  Hopefully they will get more in by April 1.  We just got our order so good for now. 

I don't like people panicking and grabbing everything off the shelves like this.  It is not like a blizzard where you can't get out to the store!  As of today  called all the membership and cancelled the next 3 weeks of Bridge club.  The senior center is closing, but staying open just to serve the hot lunch program.  I would rather eat a cold sandwich than a hot lunch that was made by strangers in a senior center that is closing all other programs due to the virus! 

The schools are closing for 2 weeks, and our mayor has banned any gathering of more than 50 people!  Does that include the homeless camps?  Our governor has made emergency rules commandeering hotel rooms for people infected with Covid.  What is that about?  Most hotels share air filtration and heating ductwork, making it easier for the virus to travel between rooms.  Are they going to put sick people in the hotels and then allow the hotels to take in paying customers too?  Are sick people going to be forced into those hotels to be quarantined?  That sort of stuff is scarier to me than the virus!  

I am really worried that panic may set in soon to the point that people will begin to attack others.  The networks are not helping either.  They are hyping up the dangers from this virus.  Most children will not get it.  Most younger healthy adults will not get it.  Most older healthy people will not get a dangerous case.  Unfortunately, many people that are infected will be unknowing carriers with little or no symptoms.  The most publicized case is Tom and Rita Hanks who when they had it just thought they were tired and had a small cold!  That is the dangerous aspect of this virus, that people don't feel sick so they go about their normal activities ad spread it. However, according to the CDC, Covid 19 has already mutated to a less virulent form.  As I understand what the CDC said, that milder form is the form that is currently spreading in this county from those who originally brought it in.

Keep calm - Oh yes, and buy stock at the bottom price if you can afford to hold it for a while.  What goes up must come down, and what goes down will come back up.  Just have to hope and pray.

Stay safe and well everyone.


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## Bunnylady

Y'all may never have heard of the North Carolina Azalea Festival, but it's a big deal around here. For the last 72 years, it's been an early-April fixture; a community-wide party that goes on for the better part of a week, with concerts, garden tours, a street fair, fireworks, a parade, etc. A lot of the local economy is based around tourism, and the Azalea Festival is pretty much the kick-off of our tourist season ("if it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em?" "Welcome to Wrightsville Beach - now go home" - yeah, definitely a love/hate relationship). Well, they've just cancelled the Azalea Festival for this year. Ironic; the opening salvo is the announcement of which celebrity is going to be this year's Queen Azalea, which they just did a few days ago, and now they're telling her (and everyone else, including the Azalea Belles) that they are all dressed up with no place to go. I wonder whether she will be available for next year, or if she will forever be the Queen that Wasn't. That will probably be the fate of a lot of the Belles - they are all high school girls, and a lot will probably graduate before next year's festivities. Yep, this one's gonna bite us all, one way or another, but when you consider how many of the folks with tourist dollars to spend fall into the "at risk" categories, it makes sense . . . .


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## Baymule

Bunnylady said:


> Y'all may never have heard of the North Carolina Azalea Festival, but it's a big deal around here. For the last 72 years, it's been an early-April fixture; a community-wide party that goes on for the better part of a week, with concerts, garden tours, a street fair, fireworks, a parade, etc. A lot of the local economy is based around tourism, and the Azalea Festival is pretty much the kick-off of our tourist season ("if it's tourist season, why can't we shoot 'em?" "Welcome to Wrightsville Beach - now go home" - yeah, definitely a love/hate relationship). Well, they've just cancelled the Azalea Festival for this year. Ironic; the opening salvo is the announcement of which celebrity is going to be this year's Queen Azalea, which they just did a few days ago, and now they're telling her (and everyone else, including the Azalea Belles) that they are all dressed up with no place to go. I wonder whether she will be available for next year, or if she will forever be the Queen that Wasn't. That will probably be the fate of a lot of the Belles - they are all high school girls, and a lot will probably graduate before next year's festivities. Yep, this one's gonna bite us all, one way or another, but when you consider how many of the folks with tourist dollars to spend fall into the "at risk" categories, it makes sense . . . .


Tyler, Texas does the same thing, plus the Rose Parade, Rose Queen, etc. But that is all cancelled.


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## B&B Happy goats

We have three close friendly neighbors who are in a bad way, cow neighbors wife is coming home from the hospital to spent her remaining  days, goat noise neighbor just got home from hospital with his cancer issues,and isn't  doing well at all...my dear friend neighbor is loosing weight like crazy and I have been trying to encourage her to at least drink BOOST, she is so weak she just tilts and falls... ...if the virus arrives here...how do you make a decision on who to help ? Everyone around us is in need right now and we are just getting over a month of being sick ourselfs... 
I think many of us will have to make choices that we are not used to making, I am so wired to automatically help out those that are close to me....but we are all in our mid 60's plus in age.....???


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## High Desert Cowboy

I have done a lot of first aid training over the years, and the first thing they always say is never enter a situation if it puts your life at risk.  While it is good to help others, it’s better to be able to help other in the future.  In a situation like that where everyone else is at risk but so are you that when you need to rely on the kindness of others who will be able to do what you can’t at the moment.  It’s hard, but it’s what has to be done.


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## Jesusfreak101

San Antonio drank the koolade. They shutting things down, telling people not to go the hospital unless its a life or death situation. Anything over 250 people are banned. So here our plan get animal feed and a few groceries such as cow milk for the calf. And call it done. I am more stressed about this craziness then anything. My kids are homeschooler and we have lots of live stock on the property so it's not like we in a bad spot. We have a well, generators and other such things so no reasons to stress  and yet here I am with four kids trying not to get upset... They only have one case here from some one that came in from another state. Two in Austin same thing. So both are shutting everything down. This might ger ugly. I was going to sale some birds but dh prefers we hold on to them incase we need to process them.  I not feel to hot today to began with. Allergies are kicking my butt. Sinus headache burning eyes ect.


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## Baymule

Tractor Supply has plenty of dog food and feed.


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## Simpleterrier

Until the crazies hit tsc


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## Duckfarmerpa1

B&B Happy goats said:


> We have three close friendly neighbors who are in a bad way, cow neighbors wife is coming home from the hospital to spent her remaining  days, goat noise neighbor just got home from hospital with his cancer issues,and isn't  doing well at all...my dear friend neighbor is loosing weight like crazy and I have been trying to encourage her to at least drink BOOST, she is so weak she just tilts and falls... ...if the virus arrives here...how do you make a decision on who to help ? Everyone around us is in need right now and we are just getting over a month of being sick ourselfs...
> I think many of us will have to make choices that we are not used to making, I am so wired to automatically help out those that are close to me....but we are all in our mid 60's plus in age.....???


Barb...please, please, please...I know this is hard...but think of yourselves first!!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Listen all, my niece is a PA, the hospital is advising everyone to drink water every 15 minutes...this is respiratory....if you drink the water it will help keep it from getting into your lungs..,which, once it’s there...you can’t fight it, as well.  If you are drinking...it flushes it to the stomach where the stomach acids break down the virus and can keep you safer.  Drink up!!  I don’t think includes alcohol!!


----------



## rachels.haven

Ah, that's why they wanted the toilet paper. (JK, I've heard that too)


----------



## bethh

I went to the grocery store today.   Where I shop, it was a little busier than normal but not bad.   My daughter went to the butcher shop and waited in line 25minutes to find out they were out of whatever she was looking to buy.   A friend went to a Kroger and there wasn’t any chicken.   I purchased the last 2 bottles of grain alcohol from the liquor store.  I make my own products.   Schools here are closed for at least a week some longer.   I thank God that I got a crazy idea a few years ago that I wanted my own chickens to lay me eggs and that I got a few goats last year and will hopefully have goats milk in the late summer.   I feel blessed to have stumbled upon such a wonderful community that I know I can turn to who can help me if I need it even though it’s through the internet but y’all have taught me so much and share so much that I feel comfortable.  Currently I’m trying to decide if I want to buy some meat chicks to raise for meat.  I just don‘t know that I could butcher them. im still trying to decide on that one.   I’m not supposed to raise animals to eat in our county.   Prayers for all.


----------



## CraftyHen

My hubs said last night to wait on animal feed till Monday, that "no one anywhere"  was gonna make a run on feed. Well,  at lunch HE went to store near work and got the last bag of rabbit feed on shelf and the last bag of All flock poultry feed. And said there's only a few chick starters left.  Goat feed was in better supply but definitely down from the usual. We also laid in 3 large bags of kibble for the doggos last night.  "Probably" not gonna run out of dog food at pet store ...but we can't tell when or if a biz will decide to close whether out of concern or because it's employees are sick.  We're settling in now. I don't want to be out there over the weekend for sure.  Stay safe all.


----------



## Margali

I am on work from home and Alexander will be held from school for alreast a week no matter what stupid school district says. I am high risk and kids are borderline with constant bronchiolitis.

It's not just elderly or people with weakened immune system at high risk. If you read CDC advisory Appendix A, there are a 10 major medical condition groups at high risk. 


			https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/downloads/Santa-Clara_Community_Mitigation.pdf
		


Stay safe!


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Just got home from the two stores that serve almost three counties...it was very busy...., no TP, cleaners, sanitizers,  no rubbing alcohol and prices were higher on some items than normal ( one was a Walmart) , ..
.the other store (Winn Dixie) had people cleaning everything... floors, hard surfaces,  they had machines for dispensing  hand sanitizer  to the customers ....TS was also full with people loading up on feed....
We are all set to hunker down for whatever comes our way.....at least people are being smart enough to prepare for "something" rather than sitting back and waiting to see what happens.... I think we used more hand sanitizer  , and lysol spray going in and out of public areas of people today than we have used in the last month. 
Hopefully  this will all be over with soon and we can look back as appreciate how well we prepared and responded to what could of been "mass hysteria  to a pandemic"......😷


----------



## rachels.haven

I believe asthma is one of them, so that's us. 
School is canceled for 2 weeks here now. Now hopefully the hospitals will have enough time before it spreads to prepare for this mess to hit.


----------



## promiseacres

Well EVERYTHING is getting cancelled... even our small 4H's bowling party tomorrow. At this time our church hasn't made any statements. I'm sure they will. Local schools have cancelled for 2,3 weeks starting Monday.  I really don't know... guess we'll get extra supplies.. DH and I will be ok, he has 3/4 weeks of PTO and we'll just work on the farm house should he get told to stay home.  And we should have time to work horses, ect. There's plenty to do. 
 I JUST DON'T KNOW!!!  there are 4 people in Indiana with it...and it's a pandemic? Seems a bit blown out of proportion.


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## Beekissed

You are correct.  Look at the number of deaths by flu this year compared to the total deaths by this Corona beer virus.


----------



## Baymule

Oh Bee! That’s just screaming funny!


----------



## Baymule

We went shopping today. The Feed store was good, we got what we needed. Tractor Supply had plenty of dog food, darn! I forgot the pine shavings for the dirty birdies-that would be the Cornish Cross chicks. Phooey. We unloaded, ate lunch and went on safari to Walmart. It was a Zoo. Bare shelves like before a Cat 4 hurricane strikes. Reminded me of home....sniff..sniff.... People were polite, confused-it was easy to tell the non prepped. And no TP, paper towels, but we scored the last three pack of Puffs Kleenex. LOL LOL Everyone seemed to be in good spirits. 

Then we went to another grocery store that had bacon and cabbage on sale, plus some other items I wanted. I finally found 100 watt incandescent light bulbs!!!! The heat lamp on the Cornish Cross chicks is too hot, so I needed plain, old fashioned 100 watt light bulbs. 

The President has declared a National Emergency. Y’all hunker down. This feels like a bodacious hurricane coming at us.


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## Baymule

I just got a text from a friend.  She was in a grocery store In Katy, a town close to Houston.

Literally just watched a woman get tazed by police over toilet paper lmao


----------



## Ridgetop

Hopefully, things will calm down as people stop expecting those infected to become zombies and try to eat their brains!  Yes it is an epidemic.  A pandemic as defined by Webster's simply means of or pertaining to all people, pandemic sounds scarier than epidemic.  To me that just means that everyone can catch it, *NOT *that everyone is going to die of it.  To hear the hysterical news reports you would think this was the Black Death and we would have to start burning piles of dead bodies in the streets!

Stay home, stay away from crowds, don't panic.  People with severe lung problems, cancer, and other debilitating illnesses that puts them at high risk for all illnesses need to use extreme caution.  Others, particularly children and young adults through middle age that are healthy may already have had a mild case that was not diagnosed as Covid but rather as a mild cold.  With those mild symptoms they won't have gone to the doctor, and won't have been tested either.  My husband called our doctor when we returned from our cruise February 12 and was told that Covid symptoms were heavy coughing and high fever, and that we did not need testing.  We had mild cold type symptoms.  Now we are hearing about people testing positive with Covid that had no symptoms or mild cold like symptoms.  ????  By the way we were on a similar cruise *route* as the Grand Princess (although not the same ship) that was quarantined off San Francisco!

Shout "Fire" and people run.  We need to be careful and prepared, but when you panic you no longer use good sense.  People who panic in an emergency are the ones that get hurt and cause injuries to those around them as well.

We will cut the dog's dinner portions by a little just in case, and we can hold up on flushing the ewes until we see how supplies go.  Not too many livestock people around here, but then again, not too many hay and feed outlets either. 

Oh yes, and I have found a bunch of livestock equipment catalogues that will work as well as the Sears' Roebuck catalogue in a pinch.


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## B&B Happy goats

@Ridgetop , I just love a sensible  person   ....


----------



## Bunnylady

Beekissed said:


> View attachment 70951



Our governor declared a state of emergency a few days ago, partly because it makes trying to  play this game a crime.


----------



## Ridgetop

Thanks, B & B!


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## Simpleterrier

I was just talking to my wife and our whole area had fevers and coughs two weeks ago. So I'm wondering if we all had it already. Guy at work just said two stores are sold out of ammo


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## Baymule

Simpleterrier said:


> I was just talking to my wife and our whole area had fevers and coughs two weeks ago. So I'm wondering if we all had it already.


Sounds like y'all don't have to worry about being caught up in the panic of getting Corona-ed LOL LOL 



Simpleterrier said:


> Guy at work just said two stores are sold out of ammo


That's so everyone can protect their Clorox and Toilet Paper.


----------



## Grant

I’m still stocked on ammo from the ammo panics of 2016.    Doubt the TP supply will last that long.


----------



## Simpleterrier

I didn't hear of anyone dieing two weeks ago either. 

I went to Lowe's and stocked up on material to do a few projects if we all have to stay home from work.


----------



## Mini Horses

@Beekissed  I LOVE that pic & farm search!!!    May print & post at TSC.  LOL    Sums up the current rage nicely.

As I've said before, I'm so set....no concerns.   Yeah, I could get the virus but, we will all eat have TP to use!   In a few days, I'd feel better.   I'm ok with that.

We have had some of our food demos cancelled...I understand that.  It's ok  I get another day at home.    The resets I do are still going strong and -- to be honest -- are a lot less work with so much stuff sold.   Empty shelves means a lot less product to move around.       Thank you!


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Lol don't encourage them lol i figure it be more work when the next shipment comes in.


----------



## Beekissed

Whatever this panic has done, it's made for some GREAT memes!!!!


----------



## Baymule

Oh gosh! These are so funny! I have used leaves before out in the woods...….LOL LOL 
Life savings..... 

Yes, I am a Texan. 'Nuff said.


----------



## Coolbreeze89

Baymule said:


> I just got a text from a friend.  She was in a grocery store In Katy, a town close to Houston.
> 
> Literally just watched a woman get tazed by police over toilet paper lmao



I believe it! My observation: The most affluent areas (Katy, parts of Austin, etc) get the most aggressive about hoarding.  Smaller towns: people are more reasonable and more likely to “leave some for their neighbor”. I, too, have a couple friends in Katy: everything is sold out (paper, cleaning, water but also meat, produce, frozen foods; everything!).  Very thankful to be out in small-town Texas!

Just an FYI to your original comment: the reason educated medical leaders don’t want everyone to “just get it over with” is that, while most people will get an illness they can manage at home, those who get it worse will completely overrun the healthcare system if everyone gets it in a short time.  NYT has a good explanation: 









						Flattening the Coronavirus Curve
					

One chart explains why slowing the spread of the infection is nearly as important as stopping it.




					www.nytimes.com
				




I hope everyone stays well. An infectious-disease doc with whom I used to work posted these stats from what is known so far: 
over 80 with health issues: 15% mortality
over 70 with health issues: 8% mortality
general mortality of younger adults: ~2%
overall mortality of the entire population: about 3.4%

These are huge numbers relative to the flu and other more common infections.  While I don’t advocate buying a decade’s worth of TP, it truly is in everyone’s best interest to stay home and minimize exposure to anyone and everyone, as much as is possible.   For your sake and for the sake of others.

Thank goodness we all have our animals for company!


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## Baymule

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[/COLOR]​


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## Baymule

My sister is in Conroe and the stores are out of everything. The stores are a zoo of upset angry people. In 2005, when hurricane Rita was aimed at Houston and people evacuated, we lived in Livingston, 75-ish miles north of Houston. A normal 1-2 hour trip took 28 hours, people ran out of gas as they got to our and every other small town around Houston. We opened our schools and churches to shelter people. Things got out of control at the Junior High and people destroyed it, even smearing feces on the walls. It took 2 weeks to repair the damage and sanitize the school before it could open up to students. It was a real eye opener for me. I vowed to get out and away from fleeing people in a blind panic and we did. Most people were grateful to have shelter, but some were horrible examples of humanity. 

Normal, rational people under normal circumstances can go to pieces when things are no longer their version of normal.


----------



## Beekissed

Well....in light of that news flash, folks will be dumping their stash of TP any day now, so now's a good time to get in on the market while it's low.


----------



## Coolbreeze89

Baymule said:


> My sister is in Conroe and the stores are out of everything. The stores are a zoo of upset angry people. In 2005, when hurricane Rita was aimed at Houston and people evacuated, we lived in Livingston, 75-ish miles north of Houston. A normal 1-2 hour trip took 28 hours, people ran out of gas as they got to our and every other small town around Houston. We opened our schools and churches to shelter people. Things got out of control at the Junior High and people destroyed it, even smearing feces on the walls. It took 2 weeks to repair the damage and sanitize the school before it could open up to students. It was a real eye opener for me. I vowed to get out and away from fleeing people in a blind panic and we did. Most people were grateful to have shelter, but some were horrible examples of humanity.
> 
> Normal, rational people under normal circumstances can go to pieces when things are no longer their version of normal.


So, so true! I worked in Katy during Rita: cars just sat on I-10 for hours... I remember how terrible it was after Katrina, too: so many people were nothing but appreciative, but there were also many people who just completely ceased to behave with any rationality.  

Clearly, I agree with you: I’m THRILLED to now live in a town of 400.....miles from that density of insanity.


----------



## Ridgetop

*BEEKISSED:*
Laughed SO hard I started coughing!  Covid?

*SIMPLETERRIER:*  I wonder how many of the people currently freaking out have actually *had *a mild case of Corona. The symptoms are like a mild flu or cold for healthy people.  DH and I are wondering now if we actually caught it on our cruise.  When we came back DH had a fever 2 days later, we both had mild coughs, and what I thought was an incipient mild cold.  I had a few hours of chills but no fever.  But DS2 and future DIL both ran 103.5 fevers for a day or 2 and had bad coughs about 4 days later.  Based on the incubation time though, we must have all gotten it around the same time, maybe before we left.   I saw on the news that there have been no confirmed cases of the virus in *healthy children under the age of 10.   *However, children with health issues and undergoing chemo are at high risk due to their lowered immune systems. 

DS! and I almost convinced 9 year old grandson that the Covid virus could infect a computer and transmit to him through his keyboard when playing games!  Unfortunately, his dad is a computer guy with a PhD in computers.  GS2 start explaining exactly what a computer virus is and how it works.  The joke was on us!


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Jesusfreak101

That tree would make a mess every time it rained or was windy. Lol no toilet paper seeds for my garden lol


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Toilet paper seeds @Beekissed


----------



## thistlebloom

I saw on the CDC map the other day that the only two states that had no reported cases were WV and ID. (no longer the case)
My neighbor told me that a comment on the local FB group said of course there were no reported cases in ID. We don't go to the doctor!


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> I saw on the CDC map the other day that the only two states that had no reported cases were WV and ID. (no longer the case)
> My neighbor told me that a comment on the local FB group said of course there were no reported cases in ID. We don't go to the doctor!



Same here....but we beat you out, Thistle....ID now has a reported case.   Last state standing and the memes about it are hilarious!   No worries, they'll have to include us, just to show it's nationwide, even if it's not.


----------



## secuono

No bothers for me.
Husband works, so he's got some annoyances & obsessed with sanitizers.

We buy tp & paper rolls(husband is obsessed with them) online a few packs at a time. So we have enough to last a bit of time. 

It was interesting to see cleared sections in a store. I haven't experienced that myself before, as I don't panic shop, no black friday idiocy, not in a natural disaster area & am generally an introvert.
Milk was mostly gone, same with frozen foods, many meats, sugar(wtf??) & fancy icecream mixed section mostly empty.
Breads, TP & sanitizer/bleaches were gone.
Nose tissues and napkins were all there, weird, lol. It's the nose, not the butt, that will be leaking!! Lol
No one was coughing, didn't see any crazy hoarding shoppers. But only 2 registers open and a bunch of customers. Not a ton, but a few more than usual for the time.

I did stop by a walgreens and a 60-70yr old lady was coughing and touching stuff...Was so hard not to show the disgust in my face...I hate it when clearly ill people touch things without actually wanting to buy it...


----------



## cahooncustomcutting@gmail

I am loving watching all of the people freak out over everything. Although because I work at a grocery store I am tired of being asked if we have toilet paper


----------



## Simpleterrier

Our restaurants and bars are now closed


----------



## Simpleterrier

But we had church. Try to shut us down


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

I told my 80 year old Fad to watch church on TV...he got sooo mad..he said, if I’m gonna die, then at least I’ll be in church!


----------



## Beekissed

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> I told my 80 year old Fad to watch church on TV...he got sooo mad..he said, if I’m gonna die, then at least I’ll be in church!



Good for him!  I agree!


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Ironic lol we were talking about if we were in a nursing home. I would wa t to see my family if i was t at that point regardless of the chance.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

The schools here are closed until 4/20!  No gathering of more than 50.  It looks as though we are going to be getting more isolated than we all had hoped.  I’m still very happy to be here on my farm...so, my day to day won’t be much different.   But, I am concerned for all the loss of lives.  Chris just said Las Vegas shut down the casinos...to me...that’s a great thing!!  Imagine all the germs there???  Ugh


----------



## mystang89

It have affected me as yet. We have food and we can always eat less than we do now. We bought our normal amount of toilet paper. I guess the only way it's affected me is seeing the stupidity of people on display more. I've got a house hold of 10. Most family's house holds range to the max of 5. Why in this world are you buying tons of toilet paper? What are you going to do with it? Why are you buying all the hand sanitizer? I've bought a large bottle of it.....a while ago, (no clue when) and we still have half. It doesn't take you covering your entire hand with it. Just a small squirt and you're fine. Many are hoarding bread. Why? Unless you have a freezer full of bread it's going to go bad before the average size family uses it unless they are eating tons of French toast. The lack of common sense is even more apparent along with the lack of charity.

Found one person who was selling 100s of bottles of hand sanitizer and then tried selling them on eBay, Amazon or some place like that. That place banned them from selling anything because of the person's act. Now people are lambasting that place because, "At least now we have a place to buy it from whereas before we didn't." .
...... Hello!? Common sense? IF HE HADN'T OF BOUGHT ALL OF IT YOU'D HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BUY IT FROM THE STORE!!

Just saw today where the CDC (U.S health officials) we saying they recommended a 14 day time period where people didn't leave. That would be sometime when if go out and buy a gallon or 2 of milk more than I normally do. A bit more bread and maybe a pigs butt to cut for lunch meat. Not panic because the world as you know it isn't working the way your used to.

I think this unmasked America. Everyone loved in their eutopia thinking America was impervious to anything like this, not realizing America is made of human beings, just like anywhere else. The "I can go to the store whenever I want and get whatever I want and always have the choicest cut of it" mentality just doesn't work in life and it's about time we woke up and began making some hard changes.

I'm sure I sounds heartless, (been called worse) but I honestly feel VERY bad for those families who have both parents who NEED to work and now they have their children that aren't able to go to school or daycare. What are they going to do? Where are they going to take there children? I thank God that He hasn't placed me on that situation because I wouldn't be as strong as those parents and I pray for them.

I know there is going to be an economic hit to everything along with lay offs and the unemployment rate will raise.

Hopefully this may reach people that they can't simply live like their not ever going to be a problem.

Once this is all ended people will be very reserved on buying things for a while, almost afraid of it happening again.

Democrats will blame Trump, Republicans will praise Trump and in the end I will still have this darn lean to that needs to be built that's on my to do list.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

I agree..my son Ben saw a man at the gas station buy 16 huge bottles of hand sanitizer...maybe going to try to sell them?  It’s all crazy...  I thought everyone would blame Trump for letting it get into our country at all...you don’t think so?


----------



## mystang89

I don't know if they will go so far as to say it's his fault for letting it into our country at all simply because I personally can't see how it's possible to stop a disease from moving anymore than I can see it possible to stop the rain from falling. Seems a weak argument. I think a stronger argument for them would be that the disease got as widespread as it is. I don't know enough about disease control to make a sound judgement either way though.


----------



## Mini Horses

This morning reports say 45 tested & confirmed cases in VA.  One man died a few days ago, also confirmed from testing, about 100 miles from me.  He had respitory failure and ALSO had had lung issues for a long time prior to infection.  

Hopefully the shutdowns will allow time for things to settle.

I've seen groups here helping to be sure those who need food and supplies are getting them by delivery and drive thru pick-up -- elders, kids who need the free school lunches, etc.    My area has their panic buyers but, also much organized assistance.


----------



## mystang89

That's one thing about times like these. They bring or the worst in people and the best.
Reminds me of the quote from "Tale of Two Cities", "It was the best of times and the worst of times."


----------



## Bunnylady

Coastal NC - we get hurricanes regularly, so the concept of "stock up and hunker down" is nothing new.


mystang89 said:


> Found one person who was selling 100s of bottles of hand sanitizer and then tried selling them on eBay,


This is called "price gouging," and it became a crime here some years ago when people tried to do it with gasoline, post-hurricane. There are always those who will try to exploit other people's distress; what a shame that it should even be necessary to make laws to prevent (or punish) such mean and self-absorbed behavior.



mystang89 said:


> That's one thing about times like these. They bring or the worst in people and the best.
> Reminds me of the quote from "Tale of Two Cities", "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."



Y'know, it's funny - later in that sentence, Dickens writes that "* in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.* "

We've got stores altering their hours, and now Chick-fil-A is closing their dining areas (still selling, but for carry-out or drive-thru only - no lingering). And I can imagine all of the air got sucked out of the room in Raleigh when it was learned that a symptomatic person who later tested positive attended a Lego convention in Raleigh on the 8th of this month. 

Hang onto your heads, folks - a lot of people may be losing theirs.


----------



## Xerocles

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Chris just said Las Vegas shut down the casinos...to me...that’s a great thing!!  Imagine all the germs there???  Ugh


CLOSING VEGAS?? That place is all about gambling. Why close? The greatest gamble of all. You bet your life it is. Get together with a few thousands like minded souls and see who really comes out a winner.


----------



## promiseacres




----------



## B&B Happy goats

Florida  beaches  are being closed , (spring break, snowbirds) ...Fort Lauderdale,  Miami beach.s......


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Poor cats lol the stores here are still packed with people. DH went to work and passes by them he said their parking lots were packed again.


----------



## The_V's

We only go to the store once a month usually so it didn't affect our shopping really. I already keep a two-three month supply in our pantries regularly stocked up regardless of the situation.  My pig farming partner thinks its affecting our piglet sales but I think she's just feeling the stress from having so many litters back to back this month. We had a couple surprise litters from sows we bought we were told were definitely not pregnant who turned out to give us litters right away.I see this all as a blessing. It will show them city folks that the homesteading life really is the best way to live. Maybe more people will turn to our way of life after seeing homesteaders and farmers are really less affected than most city folk. Most of the hobby farmers and homesteaders in our area aren't worried at all. I feel bad for anyone who loses a family member to this virus but as a farmer I also see it as a culling of the herd. The universe does what it wants we all just live in it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

The_V's said:


> I feel bad for anyone who loses a family member to this virus but as a farmer I also see it as a culling of the herd. The universe does what it wants we all just live in it.


I call it "Mother Nature fighting back."


----------



## mystang89

Bunnylady said:


> in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only


I forgot about that. Maybe I should read the entire book again lol. Might give better insight into today's happenings.


Bunnylady said:


> what a shame that it should even be necessary to make laws to prevent (or punish) such mean and self-absorbed behavior.


So true. I feel that's the way most laws came about though. Things that should seen like common sense to most have to be laid out in Black and White to all.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

frustratedearthmother said:


> I call it "Mother Nature fighting back."


Lol I told dh the day we found out they thought it can from a dog that the dogs figured out how to make themselves not edable lol since it can go from humans to animals. Ironically its how the swine flu started as well if memory serves.


----------



## The_V's

coronavirus is a respiratory viral infection there are 20 something different strains actually the one that dogs get is different than the COVID 19 strain. However the COVID19 strain can be passed from humans to animals and that's why its been so difficult to contain.
and swine flu did start with pigs but any pig farmer will tell you you can give your pigs the flu if you handle them when you're sick and vice versa. same with colds and diarrhea.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

There were so many and still are on mixed reports on this virus. Your probably right i have read so many articles its probably all mixed up in there . Coffee isn't helping this morning lack of sleep is kicking my butt today if i don't get some soon who knows what could happen. I just thought it was funny considering they where telling people not to eat dogs because of it. They say alot of things i am not sure i believe them. Add in to the fact this virus isn't a level i would think would call for all of this. I still think it's mostly a distraction to all the things going on with the voting machines and the election coming up. It's seems to me like most of the hype is a distraction. Some news agency  seems to have forget to report on anything else.


----------



## farmerjan

The whole shut down, stock market panic and all is affecting the cattle prices.  We went to a sale today and the feeder steers were an average of 20 to 30 cents per pound less and heifers were also.  400-600 lb steers were mostly in the 1.25 to 1.40 per lb and they were in the 1.40 to 1.65 last week.  Saw some nice 500+/- weight heifers bring .95 to 1.15 when they were in the 1.10 to 1.30 last week.   There is talk that the special feeder sale we were consigning cattle to  next week may be canceled.  And we kept these feeders and didn't sell back in Feb, and put all this feed into them and now this.... I realize no one really saw this c-19 getting this bad..... but we are running out of feed so will not be able to keep them much longer....can't ride this out as they are on silage and once it is gone, they will be on just hay and they will lose weight and condition, until they get accustomed, because our grazing season is still 6 weeks away at best,  and that is more lost money..... 
Buyers are watching the cattle futures and they are dropping the max allowed everyday for the last week.  Guys are losing alot on the fat cattle that are going to slaughter, and they can't afford to pay for the 900-1000 lb cattle to put back on feed, so the graziers that buy the 4-6 wts can't afford to pay what our feeders should be worth.  The whole system sucks.  Yet the price the "big 4"  cattle slaughter companies are still getting the same prices for the boxed beef they were getting a month ago, so you are still paying the same for beef in the stores..... and now it is harder to find due to the run on the groceries, so they will just up the prices and claim there is a short supply.....


----------



## Grant

All the panic is just mystifying to me.  We have 7 cases in Mo. All of them travelled to other places and were subjected to it there.  No case here was due to community spread....yet nearly all schools are closing, people are buying anything in sight, even if they have no need for it.  ARE PEOPLE LOSING THERE EVER LOVING MINDS?!
At some point someone needs to remind people there is no supply issue.


----------



## rachels.haven

Massachusetts has 197 cases. We're not WA, NY, or CA, but the number is growing fast. Most should be exposure before "social distancing" now...I hope. I'm also hoping for 2 weeks of rising numbers then leveling out.


----------



## farmerjan

The whole panic/hysterical buying is that there will be a supply issue in the near future;  because, if no one is working now, then in a month or two there won't be anything to resupply with.  

You are right, this is as ridiculous as it gets.....but if you live in an apartment, live paycheck to paycheck, and eat out an average of at least 4 meals a week,  don't do anything more than heat up prepackaged food when you are home, stop at the store when you are down to the last roll of toilet paper or paper towels, and get a loaf of bread or a gallon of milk and some thing to make quick for dinner 2 more days a week..... with nothing more in the cabinets for more than a day or two of supplies.....and don't know what to do with the kids for more than an hour or two a day and suddenly they are there for 24 hrs for days on end..... you are going to lose your ever lovin' mind.  Plus, think of all the toilet paper that is used at all the other places they are, and suddenly they are all home using it...... 

If they showed half this much concern when we had some of the other flu's..... GRRRR


----------



## Grant

That’s just it.  It’s just another flu virus.  WTF?


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Well honestly it's closely related to the common cold. That's why this is annoying to those of us. The only CDC state symptoms are fever, cough, shortness of breath.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

PA has closed all non- essential businesses, but they are only allowing ten people there.  We have many factories in this area...thousands of workers...laid off....no end in site.  We go to Sunday dinner every week at our best friends.  They are in FL. Flying home tomorrow.  I told Chris that we can’t go for awhile.  He said, if they weren’t just traveling, he wouldn’t care...but, since they’ve been on planes, etc....he’s also supposed to work on the race car with him Wednesday night...he’s going tomorrow instead.  I feel bad, and hope they understand.  All the casinos in the country are closed...EXCEPT in Salamanca....right near here where my Dad and his...umm. Wife?  Go and waste thousands of dollars!!  We’ve told him not to go.  But, he’s still going to his senior center tomorrow for a poker tournament.  They didn’t decide yet if they should close?  Are you kidding me?  PA has over 187 cases...everything is shut down..but not the senior center my dad goes to!!  Nuts!!  I do realize, that a lot of this sounds crazy, feels even more crazy.  But, in my opinion...if it’s needed to stop this...then so be it.  The first person to get the trial vaccine took it in WA today...healthy young woman.  Even if it works, they won’t have enoug( to give everyone for 18 mths.  The Pharm called today before delivery of my meds to be sure I wasn’t sick.  I signed the slip and went to hand back the pen...he said, no, we have to make you keep them....geez


----------



## farmerjan

Because it caused so much serious sickness, and then so many deaths in China,  SO FAST, and we were not given a little heads up until it had hit epidemic proportions over there, and it spread so fast into other places like Italy, and there is SO MUCH  TRAVEL nowadays, and the incubation period is longer from pre-symptom people, it can spread so far and so fast.  Plus, it is a strain that has never been seen in people before so it just went viral.... and people went totally nuts over it. 

 And I am very sorry, but like was said earlier, maybe by @The_V's , or someone else, that since it does affect the elderly and the ones with compromised immune systems, it is a way that nature has to weed out the less healthy.  
Understand that my parents are in their mid-80's..... my mom has some dementia and other mobility problems, my dad had a severe stroke in July and has made a near miraculous recovery...... but they are still on that list of compromised immune systems, as well as just being elderly.   I don't want them getting it or dying.   I wouldn't want them to be one of the ones like in Italy where people are dying so fast, and the hospitals are so overwhelmed that people are dying in the hallways waiting for a bed and doctors are making decisions who to treat first..... with younger and healthier people getting some preferable status..... 

It is mostly that it spreads so far and so fast mostly due to the "mobile" state of our existence nowadays, that this has become such a big deal.   I get that they want to slow down the speed that people get it, so as to not overwhelm our hospitals and "emergency" response ability, all at once.  When all the BS came about with the "Affordable health care act" , and there were fewer and fewer choices of doctors and the way things really worked out, health care costs went way up and alot of small hospitals had to close because they could not afford to stay open and operate on a basis that they could pay the bills.  Many were "for profit" hospitals, many of the small ones were a "first stop" for sick people, and then worse cases were transferred to larger hospitals, of which many of them were subsidized by universities and other things that helped to cover costs.  But with the mandate that we all must have everything available, and that the smaller ones often could not meet these requirements, they closed.  Look at all the doctors that quit delivering babies due to the cost of the malpractice insurances...... 
So all this has contributed to fewer  hospitals, and so now when you go to the emergency room, you sit and wait.  There are many more people there. you are exposed to all the germs, bugs, viruses, bacterias, etc., and so on.......
And you don't know if the person next to you in the restaurant, or the grocery store check out line, or the movie theatre, or in church, was  at their own house and job all week or if they visited their brother/cousin/uncle that just got home from a trip to Hong Kong where they carried the virus home with no symptoms.....

So all the shut downs are to try to SLOW DOWN the speed that it is spreading so a million people don't all get real sick at once and the hospitals cannot take care of them and they are having to make choices of who to treat.    I get the reasoning..... I think we should have closed our borders .... tighter..... sooner...... to prevent so many travelers in,  that could be carrying it.  There are going to be alot of people who get it and get over it with no big deal..... but they are more contagious than people with other types of "bugs".   A greater number of people will have some immunity to it after getting it.... we just have to go through this initial "infection stage" with hopefully not too many becoming deathly sick.  

And that means dealing with all the WTF idiots in the meantime.


----------



## Baymule

A smile for y'all.






​


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Unfortunately I have, and my son has a compromised immune system.  As does Chris...he has Lymes disease.  So, we are going to be forced to obey by the rules a little more closely since we could get truly sick.  It’s in the next county from us.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Baymule said:


> A smile for y'all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Can I join??


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## thistlebloom

Things around here have not been unreasonable so far. I haven't been out for awhile, but today I had to take our taxes in to town so stopped at Costco. It was busy, but not crazy. I have never seen vacant shelves like today. All the usual things were gone. 
Then to the feed store to get COB and beet pulp for my old horse.  Bare shelves there too. But they seemed to have other feeds in stock. It seemed that the COB, beet pulp and sunflower seeds were the biggest hit. Luke is going to be very disappointed when I run out and he doesn't get his daily goodies. I'm halving what he ordinarily gets to stretch it out, and hope that the panic buyers are satisfied with what they have and we can all be reasonable now.


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## mendofarm

Well thought out and well said, farmerjan! Maybe if I sent this to my 85-yr old Mom, she would believe you. She doesn't believe me . "It's just a cold virus."


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## mystang89

Grant said:


> All the panic is just mystifying to me.  We have 7 cases in Mo. All of them travelled to other places and were subjected to it there.  No case here was due to community spread....yet nearly all schools are closing, people are buying anything in sight, even if they have no need for it.  ARE PEOPLE LOSING THERE EVER LOVING MINDS?!
> At some point someone needs to remind people there is no supply issue.





Grant said:


> That’s just it.  It’s just another flu virus.  WTF?


My thoughts exactly. The response should be the same. If you're sick. Go away. Array home. Call in. Wash your hands. Take a shower... More than once a week. Sanitation is key. Since this IS so deadly to elderly and those with immune difficiency then, again, if you're sick, go away. Much the same as it is here. If you're sick, find a nice spot in the pasture, last down there, and come back when you feel better.
My children get sick I don't go panic buy. Someone look up the amount of deaths this year from the good ol' regular flu virus. Might be surprising.


----------



## Baymule

I got an email from Tractor Supply that I thought I'd share, and I'm sure the CEO won't mind. They will stay OPEN and STOCKED for their customers, so everyone can buy feed and what they need for their animals. I must admit, with 2 feeder pigs and 50 Cornish Cross chicks that must be fed, I was wondering..... The horses and sheep could do with minimal feed, more hay. This makes me feel better and I hope it does for y'all that are near a TSC.


*A message to our Neighbors from President and CEO, Hal Lawton*
​ Dear Neighbor,
We know you have so much to take care of — your family, your animals, your pets, your land. We want you to know that through the current coronavirus (COVID-19) situation, you can count on all of us at Tractor Supply to be here for you.
Simply put, we're open, and our plan is to stay open to provide you with the essential products and services you need.
Here's our plan:

Because we know you count on us, our stores are staying open, stocked and keeping normal business hours in every location.
We are making sure our stores are safe for you and our Team Members. That means extra daily cleaning to give you the safest environment to shop, and for our Team Members to be there to help you.
Health and safety are our top priority. We are taking care of our Team Members so they can take care of you. This includes offering paid leave to any Team Member affected by illness, so nobody must come to work sick.
As our Neighbor, your health and safety are always of the utmost importance. We know that your family, land, animals and pets — what makes life out here so special — count on you to take care of them. Our commitment is to be here for you and do everything we can to assist you and your family.
If there is anything we can do to assist you during this challenging time, please let us know. Stay safe and healthy.
Your Neighbors at Tractor Supply Co.​


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## mystang89

I'm glad to hear that some people still have places to go in order to buy free for their animals! The place I normally buy food for the animals from was still mixing it and said they'd still try to start open as long as they could. I'm real sorry to hear about your situation @farmerjan . That really puts you in a tough bind.

I looked up the number of deaths from the flu for 2019-2020 and 2018. 
2018 came to to attend 34000 deaths.
2019-2020 was 45000? I think. That's just the flu.








						Preliminary In-Season 2021-2022 Flu Burden Estimates
					

CDC's weekly cumulative in-season estimates of flu cases, medical visits, hospitalizations and deaths in the United States.




					www.cdc.gov


----------



## misfitmorgan

Corvid-19 is not actually "just a cold" it's a pneumonia-like infection(actually includes SARS-CoV and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome).....just so thats more clear. Odds of killing most people not super high.

Here pretty much all nonessential business are closed down, gatherings are limited to 50 people total, all restaurants and bars are limited to drive-thru, delivery or take-out. Take-out requires 5 people or less inside the building and they all must stand 6 ft apart. All schools, colleges, senior centers, etc are closed.

We currently have 54 positive people in michigan and it is pretty quickly spreading thru the state including the 1 positive case of a child with it was found on Sunday night. The county next to us is testing 27 people atm, the county next to them already has a positive person.

My work just told us yesterday we need to drop capacity by 50% per shift so we are either going on 12hrs or working swing shifts. Yay, not.

DH and I are both immune compromised so again yay, not.


----------



## Baymule

@misfitmorgan you and your husband please stay safe and update us from time to time.


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## misfitmorgan

Baymule said:


> @misfitmorgan you and your husband please stay safe and update us from time to time.


I will


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## Jesusfreak101

My mom told me that the cdc guy n out sure job title now but anyways he was wanting to close everything for 2 weeks clearly he dumb in some ways. That would do more damage to human life and our economy then anything else. I get they want to stop this but eventually we all gonna face a bug whether we like it or not. Better be prepared at all times. So you can be able to stay home. Any illness people should stay home if they are sick. I have a friend she a great lady she volunteers as apart of awanas her husband works 14 days on 14 off and if he gone and one of the four kids gets sick they generally still go to church. Which annoys me, because of the babies and older folks but it is what it is. If your sick or a member of your family is sick they should stay home. The same could be said of public schools but you only get to stay home if you have a fever or actively throwing up.


----------



## misfitmorgan

Jesusfreak101 said:


> My mom told me that the cdc guy n out sure job title now but anyways he was wanting to close everything for 2 weeks clearly he dumb in some ways. That would do more damage to human life and our economy then anything else. I get they want to stop this but eventually we all gonna face a bug whether we like it or not. Better be prepared at all times. So you can be able to stay home. Any illness people should stay home if they are sick. I have a friend she a great lady she volunteers as apart of awanas her husband works 14 days on 14 off and if he gone and one of the four kids gets sick they generally still go to church. Which annoys me, because of the babies and older folks but it is what it is. If your sick or a member of your family is sick they should stay home. The same could be said of public schools but you only get to stay home if you have a fever or actively throwing up.



The actions taken are not to stop corvid-19, the actions taken are simply to slow it down so medical facilities can keep up with patients. Stopping it is not possible there is still a large sector of people traveling from state to state on vacations and work so it will still spread. Most people locally didnt have sick pay and were pay check to pay check so staying home from work isnt an option, sad but true. The schools here allow 12 days a year for any reason, without a dr's note so thats pretty good.

The whole going to church and other social activities while sick is just people being dumb.


----------



## High Desert Cowboy

So fun updates here.  The mom and pop grocery store in town has changed it’s hours around.  They now have special hours set aside for seniors to do all their shopping.  They’ve also posted that unless you can prove you are a county resident you are not allowed to shop in their store.  So if I need any quick pick up items that I don’t run to Cedar for I get carded at the door.  I can appreciate these steps as they’re trying to keep their county residents safe and I know it’s going to cost them.  On the other hand my wife still has waitressing shifts at the restaurant on I-15, taking money and rubbing elbows with all manner of people from all over the country.  Her employers have said they will stay open as long as possible, and I know some of their employees are at risk.  I got to joking around with my Hay guy on Saturday, I bought some hay and he knows I use the tip money for that as I pay in a lot of ones and he started joking about infected cash.  I sprayed it with Lysol beforehand and told him he had clean money, with a tropical scent.


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## promiseacres

So with Spring almost here and all this extra stuff... I'm contemplating on putting in a garden this year.... We didn't do one last year with all the extras with the farm and had cut back the last several years with kids and stuff...  But am wondering if I should plan one with the world gone crazy.


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## frustratedearthmother

promiseacres said:


> But am wondering if I should plan one with the world gone crazy.


Not a bad idea!


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## Jesusfreak101

That's what we working on at this point better to be prepared i have to figure out how I want to grow potatoes because of all the clay same with carrots


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## secuono

Jinxed myself. 
It's now affecting my plans. =/
Can't take my ponies to trainers for a funday because they've decided to self QT for 2wks.


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## Margali

Houston area is not too bad as far as the crazies. We are on no gathering, work from home, carry out only at restaurants level. School district is on remote learning till April 13 with unknown end of school year. Normal is May 20th.  

That makes the budget happy. We dis-enrolled kids from before and after for Alex and 2 day schedule for Cassandra at daycare. We normally just miss the 2 months of summer break.


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## Ridgetop

Jesusfreak101 said:


> That's what we working on at this point better to be prepared i have to figure out how I want to grow potatoes because of all the clay same with carrots



Use barrels and cut the clay soil with sand.  Cut your potatoes into sections with the eyes.  Start the potatoes as usual then keep covering them with the dirt/sand mix as they sprout and the plants grows taller.  The potatoes form along the stem under the ground.  You can use canvas bags too since then you would cut the bags open to harvest.  if you are using a barrel, you will have to pull out the potato plant and dump the barrel upside down to get the  potatoes out.  If you want a more permanent potato barrel, use one of those plastic composting bins that are 4 sides and you snap them together.  That way when you need to harvest you can simply take one side off and harvest your potatoes.  Put the side back together and start again.  By cutting clay with sand you can improve your soil for root veggies like beets and carrots that prefer a sandy loam, and otherwise would grow all deformed.  Use a raised bed and mix in the sand and soil.  Don't use too much manure since too much manure will cause the beets and carrots to grow lots of hairy feeder roots on them which you will have to remove before cooking.  .LOL 

Shelves are all empty of canned goods and for some reason FLOUR!  I UNDERSTAND WHY ALL THE BREAD AND TOILET PAPER IS GONE, BUT ALL THE FLOUR?  Really, are all these people going to make their own bread??!!    Most people anymore can't even make a home cooked meal let alone bake bread!   I wanted flour because I figured I would make shortening biscuits and use it to thicken gravy.  However, I have lots of instant mash potatoes and can use that for thickening.

DH and future DIL went to our neighborhood produce store that had lines going all round it the day before,  Yesterday, no one there!!!  They were in and out, bought lots of fruit, some vegetables and salad stuff, but no brown onions, no potatoes and no bananas.  However, later DS1 went to Smart and Final which sells bulk and large volume stuff for restaurants and he said they had tons of onions and potatoes.  A little more expensive than Sunland produce but they had them.  No bread at either store and no eggs.  We don't have chickens as I have an allergy to chicken and bird dander and since my mom got bird lung and pulmonary fibrosis, I no longer have chickens.  Used to cough for 3 months every time after I cleaned the chicken coop before I realized I was probably allergic!  Anyway, no eggs anywhere, but this am DS1 stopped at a Food 4 Less and was able to get eggs - limit 2 dozen.  They had lots of bread and some toilet paper so he got some bread and a package of TP as well.  

When he came home he said that some people with full carts were if they could return the groceries after the virus scare is over if they don't use them!!!  They were told NO RETURNS.      Lots of  places putting up signs that say "ALL SALES FINAL"!   I guess the businesses don't want to deal with hoarders trying to return carloads of toilet paper, hand sanitizer, canned goods and noodles once they stores restock!   LOL  

Here in California everyone over 65 has been told to stay home and not go anywhere for at least 10 days.  DDS and doctors cancelling non-essential appointments.  Only grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, and emergency services are asked to stay open.  Schools have been closed for 2 weeks minimum.   No visitors are allowed to most nursing homes unless the patients are in hospice final care, then family can visit.  

When Trump first closed the border with China, the news media went berserk calling it "racism" and over reacting. Then he closed the borders to Europe and they were still upset.  Now Canada and lots of other countries have followed his lead and closed their borders and the news media are screaming that Trump did not do enough soon enough.  He can't win!  Personally I am glad the borders are closed, and glad that the governors are finally getting on board and closing things down,  

Washington, California, and New York have huge populations of homeless.  They have encouraged no border control which equates to no health screening of immigrants.  (No matter what your politics - no health screening of immigrants is a bad thing.)  Heavy homeless populations with poor health from drugs, etc., no sanitation, etc.  are already at risk for other common diseases.  Now we have this Covid crisis and it will continue to spread until the virus has mutated to something we can fight off, most people have developed an immunity or those who can't withstand it have died.  It seems to be less lethal than other types of flu and pneumonia since the mortality figures vs the number of persons catching it are much lower than previous flue epidemics.  However.  people with underlying health issues need to be very careful.  Older retired persons who do not have to go to work should stay home.  Read books, watch TV, sew, do puzzles, etc.  

DH is getting a little stir crazy though.  We have had several days of rain, he has not been allowed to go anywhere today, no bridge!, and he is easily bored.  Our famiy can weather the Covid outbreak, but can we weather DH . . . ?


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## mystang89

Ridgetop said:


> Really, are all these people going to make their own bread??!!


Lol, actually we went to the store the other day to get flour for that exact reason since all the bread was off the shelves. Flour was all gone and so was the yeast. No baking bread for us I guess.

My sister just told me her friend was robbed broad daylight in from of Kroger. People rumidging through her bag taking stuff. She called the cops and they told her it's the 3rd time in 2 weeks they've been called out. 

Society at it's best.


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## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> Shelves are all empty of canned goods and for some reason FLOUR! I UNDERSTAND WHY ALL THE BREAD AND TOILET PAPER IS GONE, BUT ALL THE FLOUR? Really, are all these people going to make their own bread??!!  Most people anymore can't even make a home cooked meal let alone bake bread! I wanted flour because I figured I would make shortening biscuits and use it to thicken gravy. However, I have lots of instant mash potatoes and can use that for thickening.



I'm betting they have good intentions of making bread, just like all the folks who say they can't stand to kill their chickens and eat them, but would be able to "if I had to in an emergency and we were really hungry".   All those folks trying to learn a skill AFTER they need to know it will be mighty sad with the results.  The time to learn how to make do is every chance you get in your life to do so, so you'll know how when you have to.  

Close to us we aren't seeing a run on store shelves like folks are describing elsewhere....it's hit or miss.   My local DG has no toilet paper but it has everything else~cleaning supplies, food, meds, etc.   No folks acting ugly except at Sam's Club, where I saw a few cidiots pulling two carts at a time piled high with paper towels and such.   

I'm very pleased with how WV seems to be handling it, though that could be due to not having any confirmed cases and/or we always stay pretty stocked up out here in the sticks.   It's the townies that seem to be the most unprepared, which is natural, I guess.  

My mother's line dancing class~all ladies 60s up to 85(my mother is the eldest)~didn't cancel their dance practice and most of the folks I saw in the stores on Monday were elderly folks.   Don't seem a bit phased by the whole elderly being the most at risk thing.  I'm glad.  

I only ever use homemade bread, so we stay pretty well stocked to do so here and even have a grain mill for grinding our own wheat, which I also have on hand.   It's a handy skill to have and it's nice having real bread all the time.  My brother was complaining about not finding any yeast on the shelves and I'm wondering why in the world they didn't have any at home, as his wife fancies herself a chef.  Guess they are going to have to start a sourdough.....


----------



## Ridgetop

I wonder if those people grabbing all the flour KNOW that they need YEAST to make bread?!  I have yeast in the fridge, but no flour.  LOL  If they don't have yeast they can make cake!  

I told DH and DS1 that they are not allowed to have eggs for breakfast any more since we are having a hard time getting them. LOL  Very sad family - too bad, they can make pancakes.  I also have oatmeal.  "Please, sir, may I have some more?"  HEE HEE HEE!


----------



## farmerjan

And they wonder why there is a run on ammo and guns????? When people are stealing your groceries right out in broad daylight.??????

This is scary in that it is a harbinger of things to come.  This will get better and blow over.  There will be a vaccine, or at least they will figure out how it will mutate and how to manage it like they do the different varieties of flu.. But mark my words, there will be another "emergency" and things will continue to get worse as the population gets bigger and "dependent city-type" people do less to really become somewhat self-sufficient and able to rely on themselves;  instead of relying more on more and more government handouts.   And I don't think that it will be another 100 years like since the spanish flu in 1918.    I may not live to see it, but this is the 2nd financial crisis in less than 20 years..... 2008-09...

I don't spend alot of time on our sister website sufficientself,  but do go there from time to time.  There's alot of good stuff on there too.  The thing is, maybe we all need to get just a little more prepared than we are right now,  to be able to really pull in and  isolate ourselves from others and be able to do it comfortably for more than a few days or weeks.  

I know that I am assessing some of what I have here, and realizing that I did have the surgery that I had tried to prepare for and had lived here for nearly a month with very few inputs from out in the real world except for a few things my son got me.  And the milk and bananas and all,  was simply because it was easier than for me to try to even think about it with the physical limitations at the time.  
But I am also thinking about the freezers, and the electricity to keep them running.  I do not want to have everything canned; although I guess if I had to I could.  But the convenience of having the freezers, and the quality of the food that comes out of them I prefer.  A whole house generator, natural gas which will keep as opposed to diesel.  Something I have given some thoughts to but never really seriously.

I like being able to order things like my vit C and other things like that.  I appreciate the modern world of medicines, and the pain pills and things.  Still, I am thinking things that I use, and do every day, and am thinking more about wanting a place where we (son and even friends) can be more isolated, yet more able to take care of our mutual needs.  Maybe we will look at what we are doing and change our strategies a little.  might even push his comment that maybe we ought to move somewhere there aren't so many people.... I do think that I might become a little more prepared with supplements and that.  And yes, even with a little more toilet paper in reserve!!!!!   

I am also trying to clean out some more clutter, and take a hard look at things that I have and if I really want them or am I just a hoarder.... which I am. But some of this is really silly stuff.... other things like all my books are really a boon to times of inactivity.  

First things first..... get through all this, get the ankle working,  and grow a garden again this year.  Can stuff,  and freeze stuff.  That is why I have nearly all my grandmothers canning jars in storage.  Make order out of the junk piles that I just stack instead of having stuff on shelves and in some sort of a neat order.   
Breed some of my purebred show birds so I have a viable group of birds and breeders to carry through.  Start back with the "left-behind" cornish again, thinking sometime in April or May, will have to find out when the next group goes out;  and raise as many as I can and start canning some for use as well as freeze. Cut more up into parts and then take the carcasses and cook down into broth that can be canned and stored.  I should have a beef to kill this year and I will make it a point of having a whole bunch done up into things like hot dogs and stuff again even though it is not cheap;  because it is my beef.  That way I know what I am eating.  A friend gets some pigs to use to "till up" the barn floor and get it so they can clean it out and spread it on the fields and have a clean start every fall.  Might just see about one of them since I cannot have one here.  

Okay, it is past time for some dinner.  Had eggs, and some sausage out of the freezer for late breakfast,  need to figure out what interests me for this eve.

I will have a dairy heifer to calve this coming late summer, then several that are with the bull that should be ready to calve late fall.  They will get calves but a couple are cows, so have been milked before.  I just would like to get things more convenient to me.  Finding a place would be nice where I can have my cow(s) at home and my chickens right there too.


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## mystang89

Well, here we run through 6 loaves of bread in about 5 days and that's with only one sandwich per person. So, we've near run it and with no yeast out flour to be found I looked up basic breads. Came up with something called Navajo flat bread.
2 cups flour
Water
Salt
Baking powder

Seems fairly basic, only takes 35 min and makes 8 so the children all get a sandwich if they are cut in 2. I need a diet anyway.


----------



## Grant

Even my guard dog has gotten in on the craziness.


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## Xerocles

School closings, business closings, public gathering limits, all the stuff we're talking about on here.
Maybe overdone, maybe just prudent. 
But the city I moved from last year, Columbia, S.C. (and the state Capitol) will, as of tomorrow, institute a curfew......drumroll please....wait for it......
From 11:00 pm to 6:00 am.
???? Wait....what....what time? How's THAT supposed to help? Buying a years supply of toilet paper makes more sense.


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## Jesusfreak101

Okay this virus needs to go i am craving chocolate and carmel and I am so craving chocolate and almonds.


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## Xerocles

Jesusfreak101 said:


> Okay this virus needs to go i am craving chocolate and carmel and I am so craving chocolate and almonds.


What? Weird cravings? Already? And aren't you still udder feeding one?


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## Jesusfreak101

There are other reason for a girl to crave chocolate lol its chocolate xerocles mmm oooo cookie and cream ice cream sounds good to. But no the store is out just rude.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

My (cow neighbors)   wife has been in the hospital  in ICU for a week.....her and her husband have raised four son's  that are now in their mid to late thirties...only the husband and one other person of his choice has been permitted to see her, there was no interchangeability  once those two people were chosen , they have been the only two allowed into the ICU..the hospital called him this afternoon as he was pulling into his driveway ( from staying with her for the last 48 hours)  and told him she has turned for the worse and was expected to live for two more hours and he needed to come back now...(she was on a ventilator) ...he called all the sons and they rushed to spend the last moments with their mother to say goodbye...the hospital wouldn't  let anyone other than the two assigned people in there due to the coronavirus,  three of her boys couldn't  say goodbye  to their mom ...yes they are country boys and tried pushing there way in there but were told they would be removed by security....
How sad  in a county that has four confirmed CV cases (UF students that were traveling abroad)  5 cases confirmed total in the county , and four deaths....and you can't  hold your dieing  mothers hand ????
This is insane, my heart breaks for them
( she did not have the virus) was there for other medical issues


----------



## Grant

That’s horrible.  Scrub in and out, gown, glove and mask is all that was needed to contain.  Ridiculous Not to let them be with their mother.


----------



## Beekissed

Xerocles said:


> School closings, business closings, public gathering limits, all the stuff we're talking about on here.
> Maybe overdone, maybe just prudent.
> But the city I moved from last year, Columbia, S.C. (and the state Capitol) will, as of tomorrow, institute a curfew......drumroll please....wait for it......
> From 11:00 pm to 6:00 am.
> ???? Wait....what....what time? How's THAT supposed to help? Buying a years supply of toilet paper makes more sense.



Uh....I'm with you.  How is that supposed to help other than making it illegal to party in the absence of having a bar in which to do so?   Could that be it?  

We got one confirmed case finally here in WV and they shut down all the restaurants and bars.  One case, folks.   We are  not talking about bubonic plague, but a simple flu/cold virus.


----------



## farmerjan

Inexcusable, as I have been told that if a person has no hope of surviving that family would be able to attend to the dying member.   I am so sorry for them.  A member on another cattle board's wife went into the hospital and he was not allowed in due to his fragile immune system.  She took a turn for the worst and passed away.  I did not hear if he was allowed to see her before she went.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

misfitmorgan said:


> Corvid-19 is not actually "just a cold" it's a pneumonia-like infection(actually includes SARS-CoV and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome).....just so thats more clear. Odds of killing most people not super high.
> 
> Here pretty much all nonessential business are closed down, gatherings are limited to 50 people total, all restaurants and bars are limited to drive-thru, delivery or take-out. Take-out requires 5 people or less inside the building and they all must stand 6 ft apart. All schools, colleges, senior centers, etc are closed.
> 
> We currently have 54 positive people in michigan and it is pretty quickly spreading thru the state including the 1 positive case of a child with it was found on Sunday night. The county next to us is testing 27 people atm, the county next to them already has a positive person.
> 
> My work just told us yesterday we need to drop capacity by 50% per shift so we are either going on 12hrs or working swing shifts. Yay, not.
> 
> DH and I are both immune compromised so again yay, not.


Here things are limited to ten people only.  There are 17 people with it in the next town over.  Chris, I, my son and my Dad are immune compromised...but we are going strong!


----------



## farmerjan

Beekissed said:


> Uh....I'm with you.  How is that supposed to help other than making it illegal to party in the absence of having a bar in which to do so?   Could that be it?
> 
> We got one confirmed case finally here in WV and they shut down all the restaurants and bars.  One case, folks.   We are  not talking about bubonic plague, but a simple flu/cold virus.


 I understand that case is up near the Wash DC direction too.  I think they are shutting it down to prevent anyone from bringing any more in.


----------



## Baymule

promiseacres said:


> So with Spring almost here and all this extra stuff... I'm contemplating on putting in a garden this year.... We didn't do one last year with all the extras with the farm and had cut back the last several years with kids and stuff...  But am wondering if I should plan one with the world gone crazy.


YES! Plant a garden. Even if you part the weeds to pick the produce, it is still a win-win. Don't go crazy with it, with all that you have to do, but definitely plant a garden.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

farmerjan said:


> Inexcusable, as I have been told that if a person has no hope of surviving that family would be able to attend to the dying member.   I am so sorry for them.  A member on another cattle board's wife went into the hospital and he was not allowed in due to his fragile immune system.


If anyone had the virus (the boys) what diffrence would it make at that point if they knew she was dieing...they were out in the waiting area


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Here all the beer distributors shut down...people panicked worse than over TP!!  Ben friends spent boat loads on beer.  Lucky my kid is a health nut.  But, there are a ton of drinkers up here....our best friends drink daily...proud of it.  I think my friend Jessie might get sick from not being able to drink.  Although...they do usually buy ten cases at a time...so, that should last a week?  Penn State is refunding all the students for the rest of the term..even if you live off campus and finish on.line.  The classes will be so different, not learning as well...plus they don’t have to pay to heat and cool and maintain the buildings.  Hoping other colleges follow suit.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

@promiseacres ...gardens are a blast!!  It’s so much better than what you buy...plus, you feel such an accomplishment when you grow things from basically nothing.  And, then, if this does get worse, you’ll be better prepared.  Our garden now is two acres, but we are planting one acre of pumpkin and 1/2 of sunflowers for the animals.  We are also getting into the legal fees for become ‘farm to table’ certified to sell to restaurants in bulk.  We had huge gardens long before animals.  In fact...Chris is in the midst of building two greenhouses.  One is 10x12..the other will be three times that size.  We had a homemade one last year...small...but we bought the stuff at the auction...he’s very excited!!  The first picture is of the tin that will be on the race car with our logo.  It’s gets its vynil sheeting tomorrow.  It’s advertising the mini pigs with my phone #     The second picture is of the start on the first greenhouse.  I ran into that dumb bar about six times and whacked my head soooo hard today!!


----------



## Jesusfreak101

At what point did compassion stop. What the hockey sticks but come let a family say their good byes that just makes me angry. Very angry!!!


----------



## thistlebloom

B&B Happy goats said:


> If anyone had the virus (the boys) what diffrence would it make at that point if they knew she was dieing...they were out in the waiting area



That is a tragedy rooted in stupidity. I feel so bad for those boys and their dad. And it makes me angry too.


----------



## bethh

promiseacres said:


> So with Spring almost here and all this extra stuff... I'm contemplating on putting in a garden this year.... We didn't do one last year with all the extras with the farm and had cut back the last several years with kids and stuff...  But am wondering if I should plan one with the world gone crazy.


I ordered more seed today.  Figure I can get things started and maybe have seedlings for others who want to do the same.


----------



## mystang89

Things are limited to gatherings of no more than 10 people here as well. I suppose that once my wife has our baby that well be breaking that sanction as there will be 11 people gathered here.


----------



## Bunnylady

Xerocles said:


> Columbia, S.C. will, as of tomorrow, institute a curfew......drumroll please....wait for it......
> From 11:00 pm to 6:00 am.



I'm hearing the voice of my dear departed mother, "there's no good you can be up to at that time of night." The most logical reason I can think of for a curfew is an attempt to head off what the Brits call "antisocial behavior;" in this case, I'm thinking 'Breaking and Entering' and looting. When the fabric of society begins to unravel, there are always those who will see it as an opportunity to act like animals. We see it after hurricanes - shoot, we had a well-publicized case _during_ a hurricane a couple of years ago. Several folks broke into a Family Dollar store. A reporter cruising for damage stories saw them, reported them to the police, and was told to just back off and stay safe. She was disgusted and horrified with what she saw - most of what was being carried out of the store in no way resembled "hurricane supplies;" this was people acting on greed, not need. (Most of the parties involved were later identified and prosecuted)




Jesusfreak101 said:


> At what point did compassion stop. What the hockey sticks but come let a family say their good byes that just makes me angry. Very angry!!!



Seriously. Since compassion had been shown the door, and there was clearly nothing more they could do for her, why didn't they just unplug her, shove her out the back door and let them say their goodbyes in the parking lot?!! (That was sarcasm, incidentally). I put this right up there with my grandmother's coffin swinging from the hook of a backhoe when it comes to insensitivity (and yes, that actually happened).


----------



## misfitmorgan

Beekissed said:


> Uh....I'm with you.  How is that supposed to help other than making it illegal to party in the absence of having a bar in which to do so?   Could that be it?
> 
> We got one confirmed case finally here in WV and they shut down all the restaurants and bars.  One case, folks.   We are  not talking about bubonic plague, but a simple flu/cold virus.



We had 1 case last thursday, we now have 65 as of yesterday and 100s waiting for tests results to come back. It spreads fast, so I can't blame them.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Well, my crazy son who can’t stop his passion for the Ultra Marathon was signed up for a 100 mile race on April 25.  Of course it’s been canceled.  All of them have been until July at least.  So, he went on the Ultra sign up website...who knew that was a thing...and created his own race!!  Limited it to ten people.  It’s going to be the same route he currently runs in the woods by our camp.  Oh yeah, these ultra marathons are trail runs.  Well, people have already signed up and he only posted it last night!!  He’s going to get his friends to volunteer with the food booths, otherwise it’s self supporting...meaning, bring your own water people.  He’ll make tshirts and have ‘belt buckles’ made....that’s the big reward for the race....he already has them picked out...just not ordered.  He’s definitely a go getter...nothing stops this kid...he has more motivation than ten people!!  I thought I’d put this on here, just to add a little, laugh, happiness, what ever, to this horrible situation.....stay safe!!


----------



## farmerjan

B&B Happy goats said:


> If anyone had the virus (the boys) what diffrence would it make at that point if they knew she was dieing...they were out in the waiting area


Exactly, and from what I have read that is the kind of case where the rules were supposed to be relaxed since the patient was already dying.  I think I would have risked the security and been done with it.  There is no reason to have kept them out if they were in the waiting room.  I think that might be grounds for some nasty litigation..... I know I would sure be raising more than a little he// over it.  
Sad but it is over anyway.  Now they just have to try to come together and grieve and then to heal if possible.


----------



## mystang89

farmerjan said:


> Now they just have to try to come together and grieve and then to heal if possible.


Can't even do that in most places now that you can't gather. Wouldn't be surprised if there was a fill lockdown coming.


----------



## WolfeMomma

Kids school got canceled for 2 weeks...im assuming they will follow suit with other states thinking of closing all year. I wasn't planning on starting homeschool untill sept although it looks like I might be starting early. I hope all of you are doing ok! 💓


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Penn State is refunding everyones tuition.  Not jus5 if you live in the dorms.  They are still having on-line classes, but they won’t have to heat buildings, maintenance, etc.  plus, the education will not be as good for many of the classes.  My son is in Sports Med, junior and he is furious because his classes are all hands on.  He can’t learn how to examine people, etc...on a computer.


----------



## Mike CHS

Not that this is a big thing in the scheme of things but our mail carrier said that Amazon won't promise next day delivery until after April 14th.


----------



## Ridgetop

Last night newscasters did a spot where they had a list of "basics" - bread, milk, eggs, meat, TP, cleaning supplies and a few other things.  They wanted to see if "things were really as bad as they heard".  They went to 4 markets in the West los Angeles area which is a wealthy area of the city, including Ralphs and Trader Joe's (TJ is a small chain mostly offering specialty items).  They filmed all empty shelves which they showed on TV.  My son went to Food 4 Less that morning and found eggs, bread and TP.  There was a limit on the amount you could buy but they had the items.  I think it may be the area you shop in.  I also think if they continue showing the pictures of empty shelves it will only continue to encourage people to hoard.  We have plenty of food stored in our place - actually had plenty and didn't have to buy much else - *EXCEPT COFFEE!!! - *had to buy a couple of cans since was down to last can in pantry.  If necessary we can use coffee grounds twice by adding just another scoop of fresh.   Did that all the time when we were low on money starting out.  Tastes the same and I think I read that it has more caffeine the second around!  

Anyway, our water is good and drinkable, but people are buying cases of water!  I wonder if Californians are so used to stocking up for earthquakes when you can't always drink the water that they are equating this virus with that kind of emergency.  The stores are allowing only a few people in at a time, and they are limiting purchases now of hard to find stuff.  It is not the Zombie Apocalypse after all!  We do have ammunition, luckily since you are limited to about 10 bullets in California and they do a check on you for those!  

They are all crazy out there.  Even some politicians are trying to scare people.  Some governor (I saw his speech myself but can't remember which state so if you know, post it) said that in his state they can't get their nurses tested and 200 from one hospital have been furloughed.  The news station checked on it and it was a *LIE!  *The 200 people were not all nurses, they were custodians, file clerks, and other employees as well as some nurses, and were from 6 different hospitals. *Why would an elected official want to terrify his own constituents like that?  *

Dr. Fauci of the CDC also said it was possible for a lot of people to have already had the virus since the symptoms are often very mild.  The doctors didn't know why some people got infected but showed mild or no symptoms and why others got very sick.  We are staying in, but can't live in total panic.  

Now, if I could just find some flour I could bake some cookies. . . . Snickerdoodles anyone?


----------



## Grant

Ridgetop said:


> Now, if I could just find some flour I could bake some cookies. . . . Snickerdoodles anyone?


You make ‘em I’ll send you my address and you can mail them to me.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Grant said:


> You make ‘em I’ll send you my address and you can mail them to me.


I have the flour @Ridgetop  ...need some ?


----------



## Mike CHS

We are stocked up on everything but having lived most of my adult life in hurricane country, that becomes a habit.


----------



## farmerjan

Grant said:


> You make ‘em I’ll send you my address and you can mail them to me.


Me too....


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> I also think if they continue showing the pictures of empty shelves it will only continue to encourage people to hoard.



I agree and I think that's the whole agenda...to create fear and panic.


----------



## thistlebloom

Beekissed said:


> I agree and I think that's the whole agenda...to create fear and panic.



People who are afraid are easier to herd, and more willing to give up their liberty for "safety".


----------



## bethh

We usually meet with a small group on Wednesday nights from our church.  Because of social distancing, we met via an app called ZOOM.  It went very well.  Something to put in your arsenal of supplies.  It worked very well.


----------



## farmerjan

thistlebloom said:


> People who are afraid are easier to herd, and more willing to give up their liberty for "safety".


Amen to that.....


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> People who are afraid are easier to herd, and more willing to give up their liberty for "safety".



Exactly.   Unfortunately, America is no longer the "home of the brave".


----------



## farmerjan

Beekissed said:


> Exactly.   Unfortunately, America is no longer the "home of the brave".


Sad but very true.


----------



## luvmypets

Truth be told Im scared. Not for myself, to be quite frank I dont care what happens to me. However I am worried that I could get my family sick. Working with livestock for these past few years has given me a very strong immune system. However my work still refuses to close even though we aren’t essential and pratically no one is coming in right now. Customers come in and say “im so glad you guys are still open everyone else is closed”...Yeah no **** go home you dont need to be going on a shopping spree in the middle of a damn pandemic. I saw a women in the store with a mask. All I think when I see customers is “Go home”. With my brother back from college, and my mom working from home I have the most exposure. All the PA stores have shut down but not NJ cause corporate has to be greedy and will keep us going till the state shuts us down. Two of my managers have self-quarantined for two weeks, what’s that supposed to tell us workers. All of us are scared and no one wants to come in. To me my 11$ an hour for five hours isnt worth my families health.


----------



## Beekissed

luvmypets said:


> Truth be told Im scared. Not for myself, to be quite frank I dont care what happens to me. However I am worried that I could get my family sick. Working with livestock for these past few years has given me a very strong immune system. However my work still refuses to close even though we aren’t essential and pratically no one is coming in right now. Customers come in and say “im so glad you guys are still open everyone else is closed”...Yeah no **** go home you dont need to be going on a shopping spree in the middle of a damn pandemic. I saw a women in the store with a mask. All I think when I see customers is “Go home”. With my brother back from college, and my mom working from home I have the most exposure. All the PA stores have shut down but not NJ cause corporate has to be greedy and will keep us going till the state shuts us down. Two of my managers have self-quarantined for two weeks, what’s that supposed to tell us workers. All of us are scared and no one wants to come in. *To me my 11$ an hour for five hours isnt worth my families health.*



I'm wondering why you are still working if it's not worth it for you to be doing so....especially now?  

When folks say they are glad you are open, it's likely due to be unprepared for something like this and really needing~or thinking they need~things at their house.....enough to risk going to a public place to get it. 

This thing has all went down with an incredible speed.....last week we were hearing about a virus in China that MAY come to the states and this week we are in national lock down.   Folks are going to try to go out and shop~some may not need to be doing so but are doing it out of fear, hoarding out of fear or greed, or plain ol' inconsideration for others~but many are just trying to provide things for their family.   The woman with a mask was at least wearing a mask, to protect you~ or herself~ who knows?

You are providing a valuable service by helping people get the things they need....not everyone works at a grocery store and can get their hands on things when they need them.


----------



## Mini Horses

Grant said:


> ARE PEOPLE LOSING THERE EVER LOVING MINDS?!
> At some point someone needs to remind people there is no supply issue.





Mike CHS said:


> We are stocked up on everything but having lived most of my adult life in hurricane country, that becomes a habit.



Same here!   

While working yesterday, the store mgr came & asked me if all was "ok" at home for me?   I laughed -- thanks for asking! -- but, I'm way better off than most.  Ya'll are out of TP, milk, eggs, bread, bleach, alcohol, peroxide, sanitizers....   I have plenty of all of that at home and a production line for more.    Chickens, dairy goats, well stocked larder & meds cabinet.   LOL   I can make bread & have all I need to do it.   I'm covered.

SO -- because stores are empty,  I've sold eggs like crazy!   10 dz left with DD this morning to customers.   Plus, because they are so good with taste, some new customers.    At $2.50 dx they cost more than at WM but, much, much tastier.  

Yeah, the "homesteaders" rule!


----------



## Jesusfreak101

So true mini homesteading does rule its awesome. Dh and I were talking about this morni.ng he learning to appreciate my madness lol. Since we been married i taken up gardening, farming, sewing, crotch, baking from scratch all self taught lol. My parents either didn't know how to or didn't have time to when i was a kid. My dad is a carpenter being the only girl I wasn't taught so that's my new goal i mended a rabbit nesting box with a drill the other day and for once was actually able to get the screws to go in straight. There never been a need for me to practice either my dh has done it or my dad. My brothers both learned but i didnt lol my dad spoiled me when i went with to work he would set up slip n slides done halleays in the federal builds he was working on lol. And my mom is well read in some areas but mostly she was either working or cleaning.  Oh and I plan to can this year, need to get a few things first and also need to get things growing. But I been wanting to just Ha bent got there.


----------



## Baymule

Even on our tiny lot in the middle of town, just blocks from city hall at our old house, I had hens in the backyard and a garden. ANYBODY with a yard could do the same. I worked 10 hours a day, so don't offer the lame excuses about no time for a garden. folks have PLENTY of time now, but have you heard the media pushing any type of FEEDING YOURSELF programs? Aw hell no. They might get dirty, sweaty or sore muscles from actually doing something that is not merely plucking something pre-prepared off the shelf. 

Rant over.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Lol baymule your awesome. Lol


----------



## Baymule

luvmypets said:


> Truth be told Im scared. Not for myself, to be quite frank I dont care what happens to me. However I am worried that I could get my family sick. Working with livestock for these past few years has given me a very strong immune system. However my work still refuses to close even though we aren’t essential and pratically no one is coming in right now. Customers come in and say “im so glad you guys are still open everyone else is closed”...Yeah no **** go home you dont need to be going on a shopping spree in the middle of a damn pandemic. I saw a women in the store with a mask. All I think when I see customers is “Go home”. With my brother back from college, and my mom working from home I have the most exposure. All the PA stores have shut down but not NJ cause corporate has to be greedy and will keep us going till the state shuts us down. Two of my managers have self-quarantined for two weeks, what’s that supposed to tell us workers. All of us are scared and no one wants to come in. To me my 11$ an hour for five hours isnt worth my families health.


Hang in there. You have all our love and support. Please keep us posted on how you and family are doing. We love you!


----------



## Baymule

@Jesusfreak101 If you want to can, I recommend the AllAmerican pressure canner. I have the 921 model and I absolutely adore it. 





__





						All American Pressure Canners - Free Shipping | All American Canner
					

All American Pressure Canners are the best pressure canners to get any food preservation job done. These canners can also double as pressure cookers and are built to last a lifetime.



					www.allamericancanner.com
				




They are offering free shipping and the price has actually come down since I bought mine. This is a deal that you can't pass up. I named mine The Beast. It is HEAVY machined aluminum, a precision instrument. I love THE BEAST!


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Mmm I do love a good deal. Lol dh might not be thrilled if i went for the 41 jar canner but it so tempting lol.


----------



## Hufflesheep

I sort of have a "jeez, what's the big deal" attitude, but that's probably because I live in a very rural area and im a complete recluse anyways. So my personal life is effected 0% other than my son being home from school. 
I have heard many discussions on whether shutting everything down has the cost benefit they're looking for. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## Jesusfreak101

I don't think it i5s. Our state is suppose to report whermther they are going to at 11 am  close down in restaurants a bars. The waiters and waitresses and bartenders are in trouble.

Edit after clarification.


----------



## Beekissed

Don't know how the unemployment offices are going to handle the work load.   Folks can't go without their jobs, most are too deeply in debt.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

This is true. They asking for alot of trouble with this all because of a virus.


----------



## Baymule

Jesusfreak101 said:


> Mmm I do love a good deal. Lol dh might not be thrilled if i went for the 41 jar canner but it so tempting lol.


You have to consider the weight of a loaded canner on your stove and the height of the canner. If you have a vent-a-hood, it might not fit under it. I have an electric stove, I wouldn't want to put a heavier canner on the elements. A Gas stove with those big thick grates over the flame would be ideal, but that is not what I have. By all means, consider what you want and go for it. If you get the 921 like I have, at some point, you can get another and use two. Load one up to process while the other one is cooling down.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Good point okay i be have lol.


----------



## luvmypets

Beekissed said:


> You are providing a valuable service by helping people get the things they need....not everyone works at a grocery store and can get their hands on things when they need them.


I don’t work at a grocery store, but rather a department store. I won’t say what company but its one of the few that has yet to shut down. There is no reason for us to be open. While certain stores must stay open so people can survive, people don’t need to be buying shoes, makeup, and clothing during this mess and exposing themselves and their families. We have so much inventory because merchandise isn’t being bought but we keep getting shipments. The company will not shut down until they are forced by the state, which who knows when that will happen. Gap and Old Navy are shutting down, hopefully we will soon follow.


----------



## Mike CHS

We have a Camp Chef stove that we keep set up outside during canning season.  It works great and doesn't heat up the house.


----------



## Beekissed

luvmypets said:


> I don’t work at a grocery store, but rather a department store. I won’t say what company but its one of the few that has yet to shut down. There is no reason for us to be open. While certain stores must stay open so people can survive, people don’t need to be buying shoes, makeup, and clothing during this mess and exposing themselves and their families. We have so much inventory because merchandise isn’t being bought but we keep getting shipments. The company will not shut down until they are forced by the state, which who knows when that will happen. Gap and Old Navy are shutting down, hopefully we will soon follow.



Gotcha.   Well, in light of that, I'd stay home if I were you.   No need for that kind of store at all and no need for your presence there.


----------



## Beekissed

I have a dark sense of humor, so I laughed out loud all by myself here when I read it.   I've always joked that we keep bigger dogs here so we can eat them if need be.....


----------



## Sheepshape

I've not been on the site for a few weeks (lambing!)....and now Covid-19. Things are pretty unpleasant over in Little Britain....most things closing/closed down, death and infection rate skyrocketing, supermarkets have no bread, hand gel, pasta, almost no fresh meat and no TOILET ROLLS (???....it doesn't cause diarrhoea as far as I am aware.).

Lots and lots of confusion, panic, and some overt racism.....personally I'm pretty calm. At least we don't have bombs raining down on our heads.

Stay safe.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

@Beekissed ...yepper that was dark...but had us laughing and in tears, thank you


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Lol to funny bee lol i think most of us do. Lol


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Last night my son, Ben said, if you woke up from a coma and saw the all the stores closed, etc...you’d think it was a zombie apocalypse.  What an idiot.  But, it did give me a chuckle.  @Beekissed ...that post...although we don’t plan to eat the dogs....Chris did wake me up the other day to tell me that he thinks we could live off the farm for at least a year....  I said we’re not eating my goats!!  He said no...just the pigs.  Then he said people will probably come steal our chickens.  Today I told him I’m out of hairspray....


----------



## Bunnylady

Sheepshape said:


> At least we don't have bombs raining down on our heads.



Now, there's irony for ya - I've just been watching programs about the Blitz on YouTube.

Glad to hear from you; been thinking about you and your I C ewes (sorry; couldn't resist the pun). I hope they are all doing well for you. Stay safe and as rested as you can be!


----------



## Grant

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Today I told him I’m out of hairspray....


Oh dear god...the horror.


----------



## Sheepshape

Bunnylady said:


> Glad to hear from you; been thinking about you and your I C ewes (sorry; couldn't resist the pun). I hope they are all doing well for you. Stay safe and as rested as you can be!


Thank you, kind lady.I hope you keep safe, too.
Our weather has been atrocious.... cold with driving, persistent rain....the worst weather for lambing. We have run out of forage and are struggling to find any to buy and the lambs keep coming.....



Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> Last night my son, Ben said, if you woke up from a coma and saw the all the stores closed, etc...you’d think it was a zombie apocalypse


'Apocalypse Now' is just the term I've been using, too. Our local supermarkets have restrictions on purchases to 3/4 of any item (if you are lucky enough to find 3 or 4) except for Easyer eggs and alcohol.....so a trolley load of wine and Easter eggs for me....fat and drunk is the way to go!


----------



## Mike CHS

We haven't been to a grocery store since this mess started but according to the radio, grocery items like meat and dairy were out of stock in Pulaski, about 15 miles from us.  Trucks are coming in but the folks that are hoarding are pulling the stock out as soon as it comes in.  Pulaski has a Walmart and a couple of small Mom & Pop grocery stores.

The only thing we didn't have enough of was cat feed but we picked that up at the Feed Store since we needed a few types of garden seed from there.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

For those in Texas the bar and eat ins  are closed. No more the. 10 people allowed to gather in a social setting. Schools are closed but still need to provide some for of schooling for the kids. All until April 3 i believe was the date given and starting as of midnight tomorrow. All nessicary things will continue  as normal.


----------



## Baymule

@luvmypets I hope your store closes down soon. How stupid.


----------



## Baymule

@Beekissed thanks for the laugh! That was funny! 

@Sheepshape grab a basket of Easter candy, bottle of wine and enjoy the Covid-19. Fat and drunk-I like that! LOL LOL


----------



## promiseacres

Jesusfreak101 said:


> For those in Texas the bar and eat ins  are closed. No more the. 10 people allowed to gather in a social setting. Schools are closed but still need to provide some for of schooling for the kids. All until April 3 i believe was the date given and starting as of midnight tomorrow. All nessicary things will continue  as normal.


Same here in Indiana. Schools were closed until May 1 by the governor today....
Church events cancelled for 2 weeks. 
Got a NZ buck today, went ahead and bought him for 4H  meatpens and potential healthy meat for us. 
My Dad is saying it's nothing and having his coffee with friends every day. My Mom (they've been divorced for 30+yrs) is deathly afraid and not going anywhere, but her husband is running around like nothing.  
DH is keeping busy as a tractor service technician and has been told that the farmers will keep him busy. 
Looks like softball season might be a bust. But we'll practice at home. We might be done with co op early.!


----------



## luvmypets

Good news, the company I work for has closed down all of their stores and distribution centers for at least the next two weeks. And I will get paid for that time.


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## Mike CHS

I'm going to fuel up the boat and go fishing since Teresa and I will be the only ones in the boat.


----------



## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> I'm going to fuel up the boat and go fishing since Teresa and I will be the only ones in the boat.



Good time to fuel up!   Gas at an all time low here.  We are filling our available cans and possibly buying more.  These prices surely won't last.


----------



## bethh

Baymule said:


> Even on our tiny lot in the middle of town, just blocks from city hall at our old house, I had hens in the backyard and a garden. ANYBODY with a yard could do the same. I worked 10 hours a day, so don't offer the lame excuses about no time for a garden. folks have PLENTY of time now, but have you heard the media pushing any type of FEEDING YOURSELF programs? Aw hell no. They might get dirty, sweaty or sore muscles from actually doing something that is not merely plucking something pre-prepared off the shelf.
> 
> Rant over.


We’ve talked about building some raised beds and putting them up for sale.  Hoping people will see the light and start trying to grow their own.


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## mystang89

This whole thing has definitely got me to considering the best way to start a greenhouse with all natural heat. If anyone does this send me a on and learn me a few things please.


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## B&B Happy goats

mystang89 said:


> This whole thing has definitely got me to considering the best way to start a greenhouse with all natural heat. If anyone does this send me a on and learn me a few things please.


I have used old window panes  and frames for small starter green houses, they worked well in the cooler temperatures  in NH...


----------



## B&B Happy goats

The state of Florida is releasing "non violent" prisoners from jails and prisons,..... county and federal.....yippie,  we are surrounded  by both..........great time to increase the homelessness  here


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## Jesusfreak101

Same here atleast in San Antonio, they are also not arresting anyone for anything unless its a violent crime....


----------



## thistlebloom

Wow. The mindlessness is dizzying. I have always suspected that this is not all about a virus. I don't have any theories about what it _is_ about, but there are far too many confusing things that don't add up to me. I think about 90% of what's going on is for some other ulterior purpose. 

Here's a few facts I heard today - *Italy *has the oldest population in Europe, 2nd in the world behind Japan.
There is also a heavy predominance of smokers. In 2017 they had *24,000* deaths from *regular* flu.
There are 11,000 deaths attributed to Covid19 *worldwide.

*


----------



## Jesusfreak101

I have theories its election year and there has already been cheating at the polls by certian parties. To many democrats screaming about how horrible Trump is. I am not a fan of trumps but at least he isn't going to attack our constitutional rights.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

I know your point about the vivid 19 deaths, and I’ve had the exact same questions....apparently, it’s because it spreads so fast and there is no cure?  That’s what I was told by my dr when I was there last week for a check up...who knows?

BUT...this..is different info...something I’m not really supposed to share with anyone except family...but, you all have been like family to me...so, how could I NOT..  BUT...I’m not sure it’s true, and I don’t want any going in a panic...

That said...Chris’ cousin is in the FBI....he called everyone today to tell us that the govt is going to restrict everyone to their homes for the next month starting Sunday night.  Now, Chris also says he’s a moron...so....?  But...we jumped right in the car and went shopping.  Our feed store was closed so we’re going out tomorrow...plus we’re having more hay delivered tomorrow, etc....So...take this Info for what it’s worth...maybe nothing?  But, we would rather have extra feed...that might go to waste than not enough.  Plus, on the way home from the store we heard on the radio that they are discussing this in Washington.  Please be safe everyone!!


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Wow. The mindlessness is dizzying. I have always suspected that this is not all about a virus. I don't have any theories about what it _is_ about, but there are far too many confusing things that don't add up to me. I think about 90% of what's going on is for some other ulterior purpose.
> 
> Here's a few facts I heard today - *Italy *has the oldest population in Europe, 2nd in the world behind Japan.
> There is also a heavy predominance of smokers. In 2017 they had *24,000* deaths from *regular* flu.
> There are 11,000 deaths attributed to Covid19 *worldwide.
> 
> *



I agree with all of that.   I think the motive is control.  Period.  Not control of a supposed illness, but control of the masses....and it's working.


----------



## thistlebloom

Beekissed said:


> I agree with all of that.   I think the motive is control.  Period.  Not control of a supposed illness, but control of the masses....and it's working.



Yes. Exactly that. And it makes my stomach turn.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Well that's happening in New York, California, and Illinois as of today that i know of Texas will probably be last if it happens our guns might come out and fight on that. I can understand the sick people but healthily not really Trump keeps saying he doesn't see a reason for that. But it is something we are watching carefully here. For the areas already in lock down make sure you look at the penalties before you do anything that might get you in trouble some have some sever punishment. Jail time and felony convictions. Be aware of the law on that in your area if your not already.


----------



## thistlebloom

So they are releasing non violent prisoners, but you can be incarcerated for disobeying an order to stay in your home?


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Beekissed said:


> I agree with all of that.   I think the motive is control.  Period.  Not control of a supposed illness, but control of the masses....and it's working.


But for what purposes?  What do they gain by trying to control us...they get a bunch of crazed peo0le who are staved for reality!!  We have jobs to every day to keep us busy.  But imagine now being stuck at home with kids you normally see on weekends or at bedtime.  There’s only news and reruns on tv.  They’re not doing a good job off control..it’s going to cause a riot, or worse.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> But for what purposes?  What do they gain by trying to control us...they get a bunch of crazed peo0le who are staved for reality!!  We have jobs to every day to keep us busy.  But imagine now being stuck at home with kids you normally see on weekends or at bedtime.  There’s only news and reruns on tv.  They’re not doing a good job off control..it’s going to cause a riot, or worse.


Even if we can’t figure out WHY it’s happening right now...we need to take these next two days and go buy enough feed for a month in case it does happen!!  Please be safe


----------



## Beekissed

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> But for what purposes?  What do they gain by trying to control us...they get a bunch of crazed peo0le who are staved for reality!!  We have jobs to every day to keep us busy.  But imagine now being stuck at home with kids you normally see on weekends or at bedtime.  There’s only news and reruns on tv.  They’re not doing a good job off control..it’s going to cause a riot, or worse.



Control of the population makes everything they want to accomplish much easier.  As with every person or people with an agenda, if you can't get your way, you make a way and the quickest way to get what you want is to control the outcome and the people for which the outcome depends upon.   

What do they gain?   Gun control, control of public opinion, control of freedoms we currently enjoy but many in power would like to remove from us.   

They would love riots....then they can institute martial law and by doing so, remove the guns, control commerce, population movements, etc.   Control is power and there are ALWAYS those in power who crave even more power.  

If that all sounds paranoid, you haven't been paying attention to what is happening in the world these past 20 yrs or so....actually, for much, much longer than that, it's just more evident lately.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Yup you can be. In Texas its felony 3 offence. And some states i believe Illinois you can be committed to an institution until they deem that you can be released. California first offense is punishable by up to two years of be quarantined at home second offence is one year jail time. Like i said better read up on that law for your state. I praying they don't go there and if they do i hope people are willing to fight not just sit by and let their freedoms be taken. I know alot of people here in Texas that won't go for it. I know there will be some that will but seriously hope the majority is smarter then that.


----------



## thistlebloom

The two world wars were really not that long ago. They were all about control.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Ironically it was both dictartor and communist run countries that tried it. They don't teach what they use to in school about it.


----------



## purplequeenvt

I am usually very suspicious of the government's motives, but in this case I'm not. Sure, there are people/companies/whatever that will greatly benefit for this disaster, but Covid-19 is a real, serious threat. If you aren't worried for yourself, think about your family, friends, neighbors and strangers who are at risk before you start being a rebel. 

I am a (currently unemployed due my move) healthcare worker. My sister who lives with me is a kidney transplant patient, my sister that lives next door is an RN and has an autoimmune disease. I have 2 other siblings (in VT and NC) that have had multiple kidney transplants and one of them is on dialysis again. THESE are the people that are at the highest risk if everyone assumes that this is a hoax or not as serious it's being portrayed. 

The sister who lives with me works at TSC and I am desperately searching for a job, any job, that will pay me enough to cover our bills/food/animal stuff and allow her to work as little as possible for the next month or 2. 

So PLEASE, in the midst of all this chaos, remember to think about how your actions might affect another.

That being said, as someone who was homeschooled all the way up, I am getting a lot of entertainment out of all my friends on FB who are suddenly finding themselves stuck at home and having to educate their kids themselves. So many good memes going around!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

It’s not that I don’t pay attention..it’s that I really really that nieve.  Chris gets on my case ALL the time because ups always think that everyone in the world is good, everyone wants to be my friend, and no one would do me harm.  I was raised in a bubble.  My parents did me no favors by this apparently.  I am always shocked when our tenants don’t pay rent or trash our apartments.  I am shocked that people even lie?  I guess I need to smarten up, and fast...it just makes me soooo sad.  I see your point about the gun control, and the control...period.  It just, devastates me that our world could be so harsh to us, as good citizens, who pay taxes, and don’t break laws.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Our town has been enforcing a curfew of dark for a week...didn’t know till yesterday....plus, the only off road diesel fuel place in our area is shut down.  We are going a few hours away to stock up...and to buy more haying equiptment right now!


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Browsnville just started a curfew. No one out unless for message such a work, fuel or grocery between 12am-5am. My question is who is shopping at that time...


----------



## Bunnylady

There's a story in our local news about a 7-month-old baby in South Carolina that has tested positive for COVID-19, as has his grandmother. So far, his parents and siblings are asymptomatic, but haven't been tested (I assume the authorities are reserving the tests for people with symptoms). Baby and family are quarantined at home. He has viral pneumonia, and his mother has been told that, if he takes a turn for the worse, she is to call 911 and EMS will transport him to the hospital, but his family is to continue to stay home, in quarantine. My heart goes out to them.


----------



## mysunwolf

Thank you @purplequeenvt, I felt like you've added some great points. While I agree with many of you that we should be wary of the government trying to control our lives, I don't believe that this is the current situation. COVID-19 is a very serious virus, and it's only March. The death toll will rise over the course of the year, especially if it continues to rise at the current exponential rate. Let's do ourselves a favor and heed Italy's advice. Have you seen the videos Italians have made of what they would say to themselves 10 days ago? Very moving. 

Who else is still working right now? Or working from home? How are you making ends meet?

I am still working part time because it's a dairy and creamery. But that is only 2 days a week. Our household is barely able to afford anything right now, luckily we have plenty of baby food and formula on hand. Even though there is very little money coming in, there are still lots of bills to pay. Luckily most companies are instituting grace periods for things like power, mortgages, credit cards, and business loans (we have all of these). I have a small garden that produces a lot. We have animals on the pasture, but still have to buy feed for pigs and chickens and will run out of money in a few months. I think a lot of industries are becoming depressed and the economy is collapsing. I personally have no money in the stock market, but worry about those whose retirement is there.

Who here is running farms and facing issues because the livestock auctions and farmers markets and specialty stores are shutting down? 

I personally just sent some lambs to New Holland and am now glad that I did, as a lot of the auctions are shutting down. A lot of small farmers are turning back to direct to consumer and individual sales, although our local farmers market is not being allowed to operate except for pre-order sales. I can't sell my meat there unless I take it to the processor, and who knows if they will stay open. But I can sell live animals to customers, and then process the meat as a "favor." Same thing with my milk, I have started a small milk shares business this year for my sheepsmilk, so we'll see how that goes. We will probably start baking again and selling on the online farmers market to try and make some extra money. The pottery business isn't looking very promising with tourism at a standstill and gift shops closing.

And re: elections, I believe that in a crisis most Americans tend to vote for the current man in power to stay in power, and so I'm sure there will be no problems with Trump being re-elected.

Tell me what your daily struggles in reality are, I'm really curious to see who's in a similar boat.


----------



## Xerocles

I agree with @purplequeenvt . But I also disagree. And I am about to hurt her, and probably plenty of other people's feelings. I hurt FOR her because so many of her family members have had such tragic events in their lives. And all the others out there who have, or have family members with physically weakening conditions. 
First let me precede what I'm about to say by including myself in those I'm about to talk about. My age (late 60's) and the fact that I have a chronic cough (nearly two packs a day, likely has progressed to lung cancer, but has at least impaired my lung functions) puts me strongly in the "at risk" category. This is BYH. Therefore most if not all of us, have animals. As such, most of us are familiar with the concept of culling the herd. Well, consider This nature's attempt to cull the herd. Now if the government were to implement forced euthanasia on the weak, old, and invalid, and I knew that I had hours to exist because of natural reasons, the gov officials would still have to pry.....from my cold dead hands.... As I fought them off. Not a gov decision. Now we can fight against Ma Nature, but can only temporarily put her off. She wins every time. Death WILL come.
So our respective governments (federal,state, and local) are stripping us of lots of our freedoms in the name of "protecting" us. As a result our freedoms are being infringed upon. I stand with Patrick Henry on this. "Give me liberty or give me death." I don't want to live in a nice safe bubble. That's not living. Don't tell me I can't climb a rock face in the Rocky Mountains because I could fall to my death. WARN me of the dangers, but allow me to risk my life as I see fit. Likewise, going to church. Warn me of the dangers, but don't tell me I can't go.
And what does this protection buy us? Our old and feeble (remember, this is me) may pass before we are ready for them to, but are we EVER "ready" to lose a loved one? But it's inevitable. If you're young to middle aged, this illness is NOT a mortal threat, any more than the "common" flu. Let's say you're a waitress, 30ish, married, 2 kids and an infirmed mother. You get Covid 19. You go home for two weeks. Your kids get sick, your hubby gets sick, in two to three weeks it has run its course in your family. You're over it. You stayed away from Mom to keep her safe...but she acquired it from some where else. Or even DIDN'T get Covid 19, but got a common flu, and due to her infirmed system, she passed away. Tragic, sad, but a fact of life. But, in a matter of just a few weeks, your life is back to normal. A job, income, kids back in school, you going to PTA meetings and soccer matches.
O R....
You are under various gov lockdowns (protections). For how long? Weeks? Months? A year? No job, no income. Children's education suffering. Worry and stress if you can keep your babies from literally starving because you have no $? For what? When lockdown finally ends, the germ is still out there....waiting. To get you anyway, worse even, because you are now weakened by a deficient diet. And it all begins, all over again.
Again I say. Keep me informed. WARN me even. But stop trying to make decisions for me. My life. Let me risk it if I want.
Sorry. Long. Political. Controversial. Offensive even. But hey, I'm stuck on lockdown with all this time on my hands....


----------



## Xerocles

Bunnylady said:


> There's a story in our local news about a 7-month-old baby in South Carolina that has tested positive for COVID-19, as has his grandmother.


He first had a fever on Monday. Family had difficult delay in getting him tested. So his fever hit 104. Serious, yes. But by Friday, no fever, still coughing (and I'm sure cranky). 5 days, and recovering.


----------



## Ridgetop

That is a good idea to do private sales.  Here in California you have to be a Grade A licensed dairy to sell milk or cheese for human consumption.  (See Babsbags' struggles).  However, you can run a dairy coop if you only share the milk between the subscribers/co-owners - whatever they are considered.  DS2's good friend from 4-H runs her co-op dairy that way and then uses the extra milk to make lotions and soap which she sells on-line. 

I sell most of my lambs private sale here.  I don't know if my butcher is still open.  I will have to call him to check since I have 4 lambs just about ready to go to slaughter.  If he is closed for any length of time, I will have to hold them over on pasture instead of graining them for a while. 

Smart and Final was due to get their shipment of eggs this am.  DS1 was going to go early to get eggs this am.  He was very annoyed at DH who was supposed to wake him early and then forgot to do so.  No eggs at the store, of course..  However, DH off the hook since the delivery came yesterday even though the store manager said it would come today.  Supposed to be another delivery Monday am.  He was able to get 10 lbs.  of flour.  Since ice cream is available I had him pick some up.  Maybe that is how we will have to get our eggs!  LOL  Still have bread so he didn't get any since "it wasn't the kind he likes".  If he can be picky I guess there is no rush for bread!  I don't eat bread so no problem and we are only using it for DS2's lunches he takes to work. 

DH hitched the trailer and went to get hay.  NO HAY!  Was told there is a load coming in tomorrow morning so stayed hitched and ready to leave in am for hay supplier.  He couldn't call since he had lost the phone number.  I asked if he had gotten the number today and he said yes.  BUT he hadn't put it in his phone yet.  He would do it  "Later".  
 I am going NOW to put it in MY phone. This is why I handle keeping of all records.  DH asked why needed the hay guy's number! DUH!   I just told him that it was safer if we both had it.  We are getting a bit tense under quarantine.

Talked to DD1 this am and texted DD2  last night.  Both are keeping home although want to come see us.  Maybe next week DD1 since she is just around the corner.  We can hang her pictures and put stuff away.  maybe get a handle on Elizabeth's room.  No rain today so if it clears for a few days I can get DD1's old canopy bed and give it a fresh coat of paint.  Granddaughter is 6 years old and luckily small enough to still fit in her youth bed.  She needs a normal size bed.  DD1 is a middle school teacher so is teaching from home via e-mail, assigning work, collecting and correcting it, then sending it back with new assignments. 

She is having a hard time since she is somewhat COPD in her thinking and has a hard time adjusting to new things.  I told her to make a list of everything she wanted to get done around the house and yard.  I told her to inclide stuff like gardening, planting and canning this summer.  Then she should go back and pick out the most important things that should be done asap.   Move them to the top of the list.  Stuff that can be done in a few month move to the bottom.  She told me "Oh, you mean "chunking"!  ?????  Apparently this is a teaching term that means grouping things in "chunks" so they are more easily assimilated or attained.  Whatever works for her.  For me it means listing the most important and easily accomplished things first so I can finish the work.  I love crossing accomplished tasks off, very life affirming!    

DD1 says we all suck over here.  Tp;d her about our movie night 2 days ago.  Both movies she loves.  last night we watched the old musical 7 Brides for 7 Brothers.  Wonderful music and dancing.  Such a great movie.  Also one of DD1's favorites.  Had to promise to watch it again when she can be with us.  SIL doesn't like re-watching any movies twice.  he also doesn't like lightweight comedies like we do.   Wonderful husband and father but can be a little boring.  More old movies tonight.  Hung up to sound of DD1's wailing.


----------



## farmerjan

@Xerocles ;  Cannot fault your thinking in many ways.  I do think that the lockdowns are to help slow it.  I am not sure that it is fair to impose it on all aspects of society due to the differences in things like city/apartment living  and country living where we are more spread out AND most have a greater immune system due to exposure to many other "bugs" that exist in nature. 
But it does seem that this particular strain is much more infective than other things,  like flus, so maybe there needs to be some inbetween measures taken. 
I don't have the answers.  I think some of it is overboard in some ways.  The panic buying and all has really gone way out due to the people in general that have no clue about how to prepare to be somewhat self sufficient for even a couple weeks at a time.
I believe in a person being informed and then able to make their own decision..... but like the climbing the rock face in the Rocky Mountains, and you are risking your own life..... the problem is that you are also risking the lives of the rescue people who are coming to get you when you fall off that mountain and get hurt..... But in general I mostly agree with your thinking. You can't make my life totally risk free and trying to wrap me in cotton wool won't solve the problem.
The whole problem is that there are not enough people who are willing to take responsibility for their own actions.  And there are those like @Duckfarmerpa1  that has said how naive she is and continues to just believe in people which is too far in the other direction.


----------



## mysunwolf

Xerocles said:


> ...
> You are under various gov lockdowns (protections). For how long? Weeks? Months? A year? No job, no income. Children's education suffering. Worry and stress if you can keep your babies from literally starving because you have no $? For what? When lockdown finally ends, the germ is still out there....waiting. To get you anyway, worse even, because you are now weakened by a deficient diet. And it all begins, all over again.
> ...



The whole point of the "lockdown" is to slow the spread and give hospitals time to acquire more equipment and free up more ventilators etc and possibly find a vaccine or at least some other medications that will help. So that fewer people need die before their time, thanks to modern technology (but not medicine, in this case).

I take your point, I just find needless death kind of pointless in contemporary society. We are not JUST animals in a herd anymore. Hopefully, we are a civilization. Whatever that means to you, to all of us.

I personally would be happy to give up my freedoms to help others, even if others would never do the same for me, because that is part of my core belief system. But I know not everyone feels the same.


----------



## mysunwolf

And I must add that people that are dying are also young folks, even ones who are not immunocompromised. Seems like luck of the draw in how your body responds, and that type O blood fares better. Definitely not just a flu.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Xerocles said:


> I agree with @purplequeenvt . But I also disagree. And I am about to hurt her, and probably plenty of other people's feelings. I hurt FOR her because so many of her family members have had such tragic events in their lives. And all the others out there who have, or have family members with physically weakening conditions.
> First let me precede what I'm about to say by including myself in those I'm about to talk about. My age (late 60's) and the fact that I have a chronic cough (nearly two packs a day, likely has progressed to lung cancer, but has at least impaired my lung functions) puts me strongly in the "at risk" category. This is BYH. Therefore most if not all of us, have animals. As such, most of us are familiar with the concept of culling the herd. Well, consider This nature's attempt to cull the herd. Now if the government were to implement forced euthanasia on the weak, old, and invalid, and I knew that I had hours to exist because of natural reasons, the gov officials would still have to pry.....from my cold dead hands.... As I fought them off. Not a gov decision. Now we can fight against Ma Nature, but can only temporarily put her off. She wins every time. Death WILL come.
> So our respective governments (federal,state, and local) are stripping us of lots of our freedoms in the name of "protecting" us. As a result our freedoms are being infringed upon. I stand with Patrick Henry on this. "Give me liberty or give me death." I don't want to live in a nice safe bubble. That's not living. Don't tell me I can't climb a rock face in the Rocky Mountains because I could fall to my death. WARN me of the dangers, but allow me to risk my life as I see fit. Likewise, going to church. Warn me of the dangers, but don't tell me I can't go.
> And what does this protection buy us? Our old and feeble (remember, this is me) may pass before we are ready for them to, but are we EVER "ready" to lose a loved one? But it's inevitable. If you're young to middle aged, this illness is NOT a mortal threat, any more than the "common" flu. Let's say you're a waitress, 30ish, married, 2 kids and an infirmed mother. You get Covid 19. You go home for two weeks. Your kids get sick, your hubby gets sick, in two to three weeks it has run its course in your family. You're over it. You stayed away from Mom to keep her safe...but she acquired it from some where else. Or even DIDN'T get Covid 19, but got a common flu, and due to her infirmed system, she passed away. Tragic, sad, but a fact of life. But, in a matter of just a few weeks, your life is back to normal. A job, income, kids back in school, you going to PTA meetings and soccer matches.
> O R....
> You are under various gov lockdowns (protections). For how long? Weeks? Months? A year? No job, no income. Children's education suffering. Worry and stress if you can keep your babies from literally starving because you have no $? For what? When lockdown finally ends, the germ is still out there....waiting. To get you anyway, worse even, because you are now weakened by a deficient diet. And it all begins, all over again.
> Again I say. Keep me informed. WARN me even. But stop trying to make decisions for me. My life. Let me risk it if I want.
> Sorry. Long. Political. Controversial. Offensive even. But hey, I'm stuck on lockdown with all this time on my hands....


 I agree my problem with government doing this is that at some point if this is accepted they go further. I can't recall a time in history we had political parties running for a presidency  and saying they wanted to make us a socialist government. I am sorry but if you go to school to be a Dr and spend  amount of money and time to accomplish this would you expect to make the same as some one working at a fast food joint. Of course not but that's what they suggesting. Also the health care for all would raise all of our taxes to 52% of our income seriously so if you get paid 30$ an hr now your making less the 15 an hr. That's insane it makes me nervous with how far they are going. I don't care for big government.


----------



## Mini Horses

@mysunwolf  I'm sorry to hear this is strongly affecting your family.    The good side?   You have milk. You can make cheese, yogurt, butter and ice cream!  I have goats and do these things with my abundance of milk!   Have chickens?   There's eggs and meat.  Make your own bread....if you can grab flour & yeast.

This is & will continue to cause problems for many.   We will all have to use our own devices to keep safe and make do.    Barter?  Yep, it still works.   Plus, you have area, fertilizer right there, a garden will provide so much for you!  Look ahead for what to do.

@Ridgetop, sorry about those eggs!  And there may be a buy limit when you find some.   My own hens have ramped up, making a lot of customers & their families happy!   Wish you were next door -- I'd even deliver to you!!   3 dz a day is plenty and they renew the supply EVERY DAY!!     A rooster crows but a hen delivers!

Hay -- so far my supplier is a friend and will be sure I have it available so long as she has any.  Not free but, available!   Just as good, right now.  We won't have full pastures for another month or so.   Right now, limited graze time & hay.  The animals having plentiful feed is my greatest concern.  But, I have farmer friends who will sell me mixed grains if needed.


----------



## Ridgetop

Xerocles said:


> Again I say. Keep me informed. WARN me even. But stop trying to make decisions for me. My life. Let me risk it if I want.





farmerjan said:


> @Xerocles ;
> I believe in a person being informed and then able to make their own decision..... but like the climbing the rock face in the Rocky Mountains, and you are risking your own life..... the problem is that you are also risking the lives of the rescue people who are coming to get you when you fall off that mountain and get hurt..... But in general I mostly agree with your thinking. You can't make my life totally risk free and trying to wrap me in cotton wool won't solve the problem.
> The whole problem is that there are not enough people who are willing to take responsibility for their own actions.  And there are those like @Duckfarmerpa1  that has said how naive she is and continues to just believe in people which is too far in the other direction.



You are both right!  Risking yourself is one thing, but I look at these quarantines as trying to keep others from risk.  Look at all those college kids going on spring break.  Stupid!  They brag to the news interviewers that they are not afraid of the virus and "deserve" to have their fun.  They think they are above the law, and above the risk of infection but they are a *selfish* group as they have been demonstrating for years now..  By their actions they risk spreading the infection to a lot of other states and other people getting infected when they return home.

The quarantines are to keep the number of infections down and not spreading the germs around by minimizing human contact.   Granted, it is annoying, and I resent being told I can't go certain places.  But the whole scope of this virus is unknown to our doctors at this time  Whatever the Chinese know about it they are not telling anyone. First it was thought to be more dangerous to the elderly and that the young couldn't catch it.  Now they know that is not true.  Now some theories are that the elderly have a better immune system against it but they die from it because other problems lessen their strength.  Now they think that the young might catch it easier but can fight it off better because their youth makes them stronger.  But they are not sure because it has not been out there long enough.  Finally, some doctors feel there is some evidence that the reason more men catch it is because the X chromosomes are what makes resistance to infection.  Men only have one X chromosome which supposedly halves their resistance ability.  Now some evidence is coming to light that people on medication for malaria are not catching it.  The truth is that no one knows enough about this disease to be sure which of these are true.  All may be true or none.  Most of the people that are positive for the virus have mild symptoms during the course of it.  I do not think that any of us are at more risk than we are from other types of severe influenza strains.  There is not a huge mortality percentage here.  More than 90% of those who catch it recover.

What I do know is that the news outlets have created this panic.  Liberal democrats and their news affiliates (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) have used it as a political ploy to try to make Trump look bad before the elections.  Until the liberal dems got caught in their own hype, they were calling Trump a xenophobe and racist for closing the borders to countries where the disease was rampant.  Once people started screaming about the "pandemic" they had to reverse course and claim that Trump had not done enough soon enough!  The truth is that other flu epidemics have caused more infections and deaths than this one.  Another truth is that this epidemic has only started. Showing empty shelves in stores only encourages people to hoard food and supplies.

I agree that it infringes on our personal freedoms.  But so does government allowing homeless people to camp out on your front lawns and throw their rubbish and needles in your front yard.  So does an open border policy with no supervision of disease, or criminal background, and have us taxpayers foot the bill for them. 

This has also caused some good to arise from it.  Neighbors making sure that the elderly are ok.  GM has turned some of their plants into manufacturing ventilators.  Another clothing company have stopped their dress manufacturing to make surgical masks.  Stores are placing limiits on the amount of hoarded items people can buy at one time.  Families are spending more time together - whether they want to or not.  LOL 

Death _is _inevitable, but as the song says - I wanna go to heaven but I don't wanna go right now!


----------



## Ridgetop

I am looking on the bright side.  We have enough of everything.  Got 2 dozen eggs 2 days ago, and got flour this morning.  2 huge freezers full of meat.  In a pinch we can probably even use the Lamb-Lac formula for milk!  LOL  Anything we don't have, we can do without or cut back and eke it out.  Still hanging on to those magazines and coloring books in case we can't get toilet paper though.  A bucket and a hose make a frontier bidet.  

We have enough dog food for the LGDs and Bubba can probably afford to go a diet.  LOL  Hay load coming in tomorrow and the sheep can graze for another couple of months after all the rain.   Miss the grandkids, but after next week we will _all_ have been in 2 week quarantine so figure we can probably get together with DD1's family again. They live around 1/2 mile away.  Lots of work to do around here.  Books, puzzles, board games, movies, TV and phones - that is a lot more than our ancestors had to get them through hard times. 

Only big problem is we might not be able to travel this summer.  NO  TEXAS FIX?!


----------



## Beekissed

Jesusfreak101 said:


> Browsnville just started a curfew. No one out unless for message such a work, fuel or grocery between 12am-5am. My question is who is shopping at that time...



That was always my preferred time to shop....no body in the aisles, rudely taking up the whole aisle as they stare for a long time at the shelves and you KNOW they can see you standing there to get by.   I never say excuse me....I just stand and wait.   If they never move, I just go all the way around....I just don't feel like having to remind someone of other people's presence on the planet.   If they are that obtuse, there truly is no use talking to them.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Lol okay that i get lol i have a very hard time staying awake


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> Death _is _inevitable, but as the song says - I wanna go to heaven but I don't wanna go right now!



Pretty silly song....who wouldn't want to go to Heaven RIGHT NOW?????   It's incredible to me why so many people not only NOT prepare to go to Heaven, but after they _say _they have done so, they then add they don't want to go right now.   Have they even READ about the place????  Do they even believe it exists?   If they do, there isn't one reasonable thought process that would allow them to prefer to live here rather than there.   

No, it's not selfish to live your life and move about as normal and do all the things one normally does under these present circumstances.  There's absolutely no firm evidence that this is indeed as infectious and dangerous as they say it is, there are so few cases world wide compared to the population of the Earth that it's laughable to even suggest it's dangerous and spreading like wildfire~it's already resolving itself in China, if you can even believe THAT information~ and it would only be selfish to carry on as per normal if there was firm evidence to support the need to do so....there is none, it's all what ifs and smoke and mirrors driven by fearmongering.   

Since there is no firm evidence and merely conjecture, it's understandable if people don't trust what they are being told and don't want to obey blindly the over the top measures that have been implemented.   

The Emperor is not wearing any clothes and I don't mind being some of the few who point that out.   Many like me in the medical field are thinking the same thing....we've seen WAY worse diseases, way more infectious, with WAY less precautions going on and we are knee deep in germs every day that would make most people run in terror, but this isn't one of them.   It's a cold virus, one of many, that have been around a long, long time.


----------



## Simpleterrier

Well good day all. Wife went shopping yesterday stores where all stocked just had limits on how much u could buy. We are set but will still do normal shopping as long as we can. Hay prices are dropping around here and livestock prices also. Gun sales are up and ammo is becoming scarce. Homeschooling is going good. Practical lessons even better. Work is still going some places have done quarantine


----------



## Ridgetop

I have heard that a lot of stock sales and auctions have been cancelled which may be causing that dip in prices.  I don't know why though since everyone still has to eat.  I am surprised to hear hay prices are dropping in the winter unless the pastures are already growing out.  

Ammo getting scarce?  I guess it is time to invest in a reloader and powder!  DS3 does his own reloads.   At his old house he didn't have a garage and kept the ammo under his bed.  DIL told me she lived in fear of the bed blowing up one night.  LOL

Panic might be dying down with groceries restocking.  DH wanted to get Chinese takeout tonight.  He felt we should support our local restaurant.  It was closed for 2 weeks.  No Chinese takeout!   Guess I will have to defrost something.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Total agree bee. Both my parents are prone to getting bronchitis and also pneumonia. Dad had bladder cancer and mom is has a lower immune system. My mother in law has three different conditions all three are sick. No clue what any of them have but my parents are getting better. And my mother in law is head to hospital ad a precaution per Dr orders. Life goes on i love all of them and they all three know where they are going. It would be sad to say good bye. My grandmother has copd she also sick. So is one of my aunt's and her 2 year old i also have a nephew who is also at risk after battling cancer. I am not going to worry about any because one they all know wher e they are going and two it does no good, I also believe that God the maker of heaven and earth can,do all things.  I posted how I feel about the gov. I just believe we should have the choice we the people are in charge not the government. The more we depend on them the less we can learn and do for ourselves.


----------



## Baymule

Ridgetop said:


> You are both right!  Risking yourself is one thing, but I look at these quarantines as trying to keep others from risk.  Look at all those college kids going on spring break.  Stupid!  They brag to the news interviewers that they are not afraid of the virus and "deserve" to have their fun.  They think they are above the law, and above the risk of infection but they are a *selfish* group as they have been demonstrating for years now..  By their actions they risk spreading the infection to a lot of other states and other people getting infected when they return home.
> 
> The quarantines are to keep the number of infections down and not spreading the germs around by minimizing human contact.   Granted, it is annoying, and I resent being told I can't go certain places.  But the whole scope of this virus is unknown to our doctors at this time  Whatever the Chinese know about it they are not telling anyone. First it was thought to be more dangerous to the elderly and that the young couldn't catch it.  Now they know that is not true.  Now some theories are that the elderly have a better immune system against it but they die from it because other problems lessen their strength.  Now they think that the young might catch it easier but can fight it off better because their youth makes them stronger.  But they are not sure because it has not been out there long enough.  Finally, some doctors feel there is some evidence that the reason more men catch it is because the X chromosomes are what makes resistance to infection.  Men only have one X chromosome which supposedly halves their resistance ability.  Now some evidence is coming to light that people on medication for malaria are not catching it.  The truth is that no one knows enough about this disease to be sure which of these are true.  All may be true or none.  Most of the people that are positive for the virus have mild symptoms during the course of it.  I do not think that any of us are at more risk than we are from other types of severe influenza strains.  There is not a huge mortality percentage here.  More than 90% of those who catch it recover.
> 
> What I do know is that the news outlets have created this panic.  Liberal democrats and their news affiliates (CNN, MSNBC, etc.) have used it as a political ploy to try to make Trump look bad before the elections.  Until the liberal dems got caught in their own hype, they were calling Trump a xenophobe and racist for closing the borders to countries where the disease was rampant.  Once people started screaming about the "pandemic" they had to reverse course and claim that Trump had not done enough soon enough!  The truth is that other flu epidemics have caused more infections and deaths than this one.  Another truth is that this epidemic has only started. Showing empty shelves in stores only encourages people to hoard food and supplies.
> 
> I agree that it infringes on our personal freedoms.  But so does government allowing homeless people to camp out on your front lawns and throw their rubbish and needles in your front yard.  So does an open border policy with no supervision of disease, or criminal background, and have us taxpayers foot the bill for them.
> 
> This has also caused some good to arise from it.  Neighbors making sure that the elderly are ok.  GM has turned some of their plants into manufacturing ventilators.  Another clothing company have stopped their dress manufacturing to make surgical masks.  Stores are placing limiits on the amount of hoarded items people can buy at one time.  Families are spending more time together - whether they want to or not.  LOL
> 
> Death _is _inevitable, but as the song says - I wanna go to heaven but I don't wanna go right now!


Way to tell it! Heck yeah!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Jesusfreak101 said:


> Browsnville just started a curfew. No one out unless for message such a work, fuel or grocery between 12am-5am. My question is who is shopping at that time...


Our curfew is 7pm to 7am...

as for the getting sick part...I’ve had a bad hacking cough for years...mostly from allergies.  I take meds..never helps.  I actually passed out in November in the barn and busted a tooth and my lip.  I had to get tempORARY BRACES...thought I needed a root canal...anyway, I passed out from coughing!!  So, I obviously have the symptoms..and to be quite frank, lately my chest does feel heavier on the left side.  But, it could still be allergies.  I used to get chronic bronchitis too.  Could be that.  It has me a bit rattled. We searched everywhere today for a thermom, all sold out.  I have two, but I use them on my goats and dogs, etc.  I don’t really want to just wash it off and put those germs inside me...ugh. I’m sure I’m fine... but with all the crazy talk, every little sniffle or sore throat, makes you wonder.  Ugh!


----------



## Xerocles

Beekissed said:


> Pretty silly song....who wouldn't want to go to Heaven RIGHT NOW?????   It's incredible to me why so many people not only NOT prepare to go to Heaven, but after they _say _they have done so, they then add they don't want to go right now.   Have they even READ about the place????  Do they even believe it exists?   If they do, there isn't one reasonable thought process that would allow them to prefer to live here rather than there.
> 
> No, it's not selfish to live your life and move about as normal and do all the things one normally does under these present circumstances.  There's absolutely no firm evidence that this is indeed as infectious and dangerous as they say it is, there are so few cases world wide compared to the population of the Earth that it's laughable to even suggest it's dangerous and spreading like wildfire~it's already resolving itself in China, if you can even believe THAT information~ and it would only be selfish to carry on as per normal if there was firm evidence to support the need to do so....there is none, it's all what ifs and smoke and mirrors driven by fearmongering.
> 
> Since there is no firm evidence and merely conjecture, it's understandable if people don't trust what they are being told and don't want to obey blindly the over the top measures that have been implemented.
> 
> The Emperor is not wearing any clothes and I don't mind being some of the few who point that out.   Many like me in the medical field are thinking the same thing....we've seen WAY worse diseases, way more infectious, with WAY less precautions going on and we are knee deep in germs every day that would make most people run in terror, but this isn't 1one of them.   It's a cold virus, one of many, that have been around a long, long time.


X 10


----------



## MtViking

Closed up a lot of places here in Montana. I feel bad for all those jobs lost, my wife being of them. Me and the kids all have asthma so it’s a bit scary to be truthful. I think this could turn pretty sour pretty quick if something doesn’t change. People are in edge and a lot of them without income or means to get it. That puts the crazy in people. I’m more worried about that than the virus but I’m trying my best to not get it. I would definitely be hospitalized and maybe worse with my severe asthma. My hands are dry and cracking from all the washing and sanitizer lol


----------



## Baymule

MtViking said:


> Closed up a lot of places here in Montana. I feel bad for all those jobs lost, my wife being of them. Me and the kids all have asthma so it’s a bit scary to be truthful. I think this could turn pretty sour pretty quick if something doesn’t change. People are in edge and a lot of them without income or means to get it. That puts the crazy in people. I’m more worried about that than the virus but I’m trying my best to not get it. I would definitely be hospitalized and maybe worse with my severe asthma. My hands are dry and cracking from all the washing and sanitizer lol


Rub Vaseline into your hands, it is healing for dry and cracked skin.


----------



## Xerocles

Baymule said:


> Rub Vaseline into your hands, it is healing for dry and cracked skin.


Also handy for marital relations. Put it on the door knob to keep the kids out.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Xerocles i don't want to know how you gained that knowledge


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Just got a call from mother in law she doing some what better no longer coughing non stop. They running some test and most have come back negative will get some more results tomorrow. She has two young twins that are 8yrs old. Her dh is with them and they are not allowing any visitors to see her period at this point.


----------



## Simpleterrier

I've reloaded for about 15yrs now. I enjoy it. Where we live u can make about 4 cuttings of hay a year and alot of guys just do it to sell. I bought 120 bales today for 3 bucks a bale. Not bad price. Most the time it is over 5 a bale. Grass is coming on now another week or two and my stuff will be back on pasture no hay. _ill have to double check on the livestock and hay auctions one guy said they were closed another said they are open. _


----------



## Simpleterrier

Oh yeah most of the gun sales are to first time gun owners under the age of 25 hmmm interesting


----------



## WolfeMomma

Beekissed said:


> Pretty silly song....who wouldn't want to go to Heaven RIGHT NOW?????   It's incredible to me why so many people not only NOT prepare to go to Heaven, but after they _say _they have done so, they then add they don't want to go right now.   Have they even READ about the place????  Do they even believe it exists?   If they do, there isn't one reasonable thought process that would allow them to prefer to live here rather than there.
> 
> No, it's not selfish to live your life and move about as normal and do all the things one normally does under these present circumstances.  There's absolutely no firm evidence that this is indeed as infectious and dangerous as they say it is, there are so few cases world wide compared to the population of the Earth that it's laughable to even suggest it's dangerous and spreading like wildfire~it's already resolving itself in China, if you can even believe THAT information~ and it would only be selfish to carry on as per normal if there was firm evidence to support the need to do so....there is none, it's all what ifs and smoke and mirrors driven by fearmongering.
> 
> Since there is no firm evidence and merely conjecture, it's understandable if people don't trust what they are being told and don't want to obey blindly the over the top measures that have been implemented.
> 
> The Emperor is not wearing any clothes and I don't mind being some of the few who point that out.   Many like me in the medical field are thinking the same thing....we've seen WAY worse diseases, way more infectious, with WAY less precautions going on and we are knee deep in germs every day that would make most people run in terror, but this isn't one of them.   It's a cold virus, one of many, that have been around a long, long time.


Well said!


----------



## Bunnylady

Beekissed said:


> Pretty silly song....who wouldn't want to go to Heaven RIGHT NOW????? It's incredible to me why so many people not only NOT prepare to go to Heaven, but after they _say _they have done so, they then add they don't want to go right now. Have they even READ about the place???? Do they even believe it exists? If they do, there isn't one reasonable thought process that would allow them to prefer to live here rather than there.




Y'know, I've thought about this a lot, since my mother passed away in August. She was a preacher's wife. She spent her life ministering to people and aiding my father's ministry in every way she could; if ever a person had reason to expect to hear "well done, thou good and faithful servant," that was her.

And yet.

She died of pulmonary fibrosis (which is what is killing some Corona virus victims), so she spent months in the hospital with declining lung function, as medical staff tried and tried to get her stable enough to go home. Eventually, we all agreed that enough was enough, and she was transferred to a hospice. She had been there about a week when the crisis came - possibly a stroke. The hospice staff knew what to expect, of course, but we didn't - hour after hour after hour of Mom apparently comatose, with the most horrible, bubbly breathing you can imagine; she was essentially drowning very, very slowly. Eventually, it wore on both of my brothers so bad, they couldn't stand to stay in the room with her. After about 30 hours of this, with Mom's hands and feet grey from the loss of circulation, one of the nurses took my dad and me aside and said, "she's fighting it. Sometimes they seem to need permission to go; can you tell her it's alright?"

So with me holding Mom's left hand, and Dad holding her right, we told her she could leave us. He said, "You've fought long and hard, but it's OK to go now. We love you, and we'll miss you," and he kissed her  on the forehead. Mom breathed about 3 more shallow breaths, then she went Home.

And left me wondering - why? With so much to die for, why would a woman with such deep faith fight so hard to keep living? 

Maybe she wasn't convinced that her job on Earth was done, or maybe she loved us so much, she was still trying to protect us from the pain of losing her?

Whatever. I love you, Mom; you are still a blessing to me - even just knowing you aren't facing this is a blessing in a way (now we just have to keep Dad safe . . . )


----------



## Jesusfreak101

I appollogize for any post that made no sense. I was extremely tired. The kids waking up all night and waking up at 6 has been clearly taking a toll. I just reread some and have been editing them. I hopefully get more sleep the next few night.


----------



## Mini Horses

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> . I have two, but I use them on my goats and dogs, etc. I don’t really want to just wash it off and put those germs inside me...ugh. I’m sure I’m fine



 I'm sure they are washed in alcohol.  Now put them in a plastic sleeve and check your temp.  OR put it into your armpit, arm down.

HERE -- things are pretty normal for me.    Yeah, some of my jobs are lost (no food demos, understandably) but, otherwise just the shelves slowly refilling, maybe some buy limits. None of it is affecting me.   No curfews but several stores closing early, only drive thru at banks, restaurants, etc.   

Heck, I remember when all stores were closed at 6, 7, 8 o'clock and NO Sunday hours  It was just that way.   Normal protocol.


----------



## Mike CHS

This is by no means official but the daughter that lives in Reno's father-in-law is a Pharmacist at a hospital in northern California and they are part of the trial with the two medications that President Trump mentioned the other day.  He said they only have a few cases but they are privy to the info on other hospitals involved in the trial.  So far the meds seem to doing the job but I have no idea on what scale the trial has to be verified by for the results to become official.


----------



## farmerjan

We used to have the radio station close down here by 8 p.m. when I first moved to Va and most all the stores were closed by 6 or 7 on weekdays.  No liquor on Sundays at all, beer, wine, nothing. 

I have read somewhere that those 2 drugs, the one for malaria combined with the Z-pac has cut the infection time down to 6 days and that people respond quickly to getting better.  There are things out there to help slow it or even "kill it" once you get it.....they have to start thinking outside the box with these drugs that they have approved for "ONLY XYZ" purposes.   I am not for just going willy  nilly, but we don't allow so many things to be used "extra label"  that they should be able to easily shift from one to another.


----------



## babsbag

Everyone at my place is ok, but DH is home from work. He is a diabetic with horrible allergies and a history of pneumonia so he stays home. Fortunately he is on administrative leave for now and we both get retirement too so not a financial crisis.  I have access to hay so that is easy, and I will load up on chicken feed and dog food tomorrow. We aren't supposed to go out unless we have to so I am going to try and get enough stored for 2 weeks. I didn't hoard any TP or water, or anything for that matter. The mold issue is causing me more issues than this virus.


----------



## Baymule

I called the Feed store to see if they are open. I was getting concerned over raising 50 Cornish Cross chicks to slaughter size, and the two feeder pigs we have. She assured me that they have plenty of Feed, there is plenty of supply at the mill. Also, Feed stores are declared essential and are staying OPEN. I’m posting this in case anyone else is wondering or worried about their animals. 

That said, we are stock piling a little more than we usually keep, just to give ourselves a little leeway. 

We have more than a months worth of dog food. We are making a feed purchase tomorrow and will get 5-6 weeks of Feed for the Sheep and horses. If need be, we can stretch it out and feed them more hay. Winter grass is good right now but won’t last long when it gets hot. Summer grass remains to be seen. 

We are stocked in for ourselves and should have a good garden, so no worries about ourselves. 

Call your feed store, maybe keep a little more on hand than usual to give you peace of mind.


----------



## Baymule

Many of us are gardeners. Think about your neighbors, friends and family. Think about people who are now unemployed and who will be short of enough food to eat. Plant extra for these people. The assisted living facility where I have gone to work is having a hard time finding enough food to plan 3 meals a day for the residents. I will plant extra squash, green beans and other vegetables to help out. 

Think about homeless shelters and any other place you can think of where there is a need. If as many of us as possible pitch in to help our communities, we can accomplish a great deal. Together, we can do this.


----------



## purplequeenvt

Xerocles said:


> I agree with @purplequeenvt . But I also disagree. And I am about to hurt her, and probably plenty of other people's feelings. I hurt FOR her because so many of her family members have had such tragic events in their lives. And all the others out there who have, or have family members with physically weakening conditions.
> First let me precede what I'm about to say by including myself in those I'm about to talk about. My age (late 60's) and the fact that I have a chronic cough (nearly two packs a day, likely has progressed to lung cancer, but has at least impaired my lung functions) puts me strongly in the "at risk" category. This is BYH. Therefore most if not all of us, have animals. As such, most of us are familiar with the concept of culling the herd. Well, consider This nature's attempt to cull the herd. Now if the government were to implement forced euthanasia on the weak, old, and invalid, and I knew that I had hours to exist because of natural reasons, the gov officials would still have to pry.....from my cold dead hands.... As I fought them off. Not a gov decision. Now we can fight against Ma Nature, but can only temporarily put her off. She wins every time. Death WILL come.
> So our respective governments (federal,state, and local) are stripping us of lots of our freedoms in the name of "protecting" us. As a result our freedoms are being infringed upon. I stand with Patrick Henry on this. "Give me liberty or give me death." I don't want to live in a nice safe bubble. That's not living. Don't tell me I can't climb a rock face in the Rocky Mountains because I could fall to my death. WARN me of the dangers, but allow me to risk my life as I see fit. Likewise, going to church. Warn me of the dangers, but don't tell me I can't go.
> And what does this protection buy us? Our old and feeble (remember, this is me) may pass before we are ready for them to, but are we EVER "ready" to lose a loved one? But it's inevitable. If you're young to middle aged, this illness is NOT a mortal threat, any more than the "common" flu. Let's say you're a waitress, 30ish, married, 2 kids and an infirmed mother. You get Covid 19. You go home for two weeks. Your kids get sick, your hubby gets sick, in two to three weeks it has run its course in your family. You're over it. You stayed away from Mom to keep her safe...but she acquired it from some where else. Or even DIDN'T get Covid 19, but got a common flu, and due to her infirmed system, she passed away. Tragic, sad, but a fact of life. But, in a matter of just a few weeks, your life is back to normal. A job, income, kids back in school, you going to PTA meetings and soccer matches.
> O R....
> You are under various gov lockdowns (protections). For how long? Weeks? Months? A year? No job, no income. Children's education suffering. Worry and stress if you can keep your babies from literally starving because you have no $? For what? When lockdown finally ends, the germ is still out there....waiting. To get you anyway, worse even, because you are now weakened by a deficient diet. And it all begins, all over again.
> Again I say. Keep me informed. WARN me even. But stop trying to make decisions for me. My life. Let me risk it if I want.
> Sorry. Long. Political. Controversial. Offensive even. But hey, I'm stuck on lockdown with all this time on my hands....



It’s this kind of attitude that has to potential to make things so much worse. We aren’t talking about whether or not the government has a right to force everyone to wear a helmet when biking or a seatbelt in the car. You aren’t risking just your life, but potentially every person you directly or indirectly come into contact with. Young, old, healthy, or infirm.

Just take a look at all those college kids that ignored the recommendations to stay at home and instead went off to FL for the spring break that they felt was “their right”. How many of those kids were exposed to the virus and then carried it off home to their cities, towns, and states? 

The restrictions being imposed (by local/state governments, not the federal government) are an attempt to SLOW the virus down enough that the healthcare facilities having a chance of keeping up. 

Your words didn't hurt me, but they did make me very sad. Who are you (or me or any of us) to decide whose life is worth less than a little bit of our “freedom” at this moment in time? I would gladly give up a lot of things temporarily if it meant that those weaker than me get a fighting chance to survive this virus.


----------



## Beekissed

Ridgetop said:


> DD1 says we all suck over here. Tp;d her about our movie night 2 days ago. Both movies she loves. last night we watched the old musical 7 Brides for 7 Brothers. Wonderful music and dancing. Such a great movie. Also one of DD1's favorites. Had to promise to watch it again when she can be with us. SIL doesn't like re-watching any movies twice. he also doesn't like lightweight comedies like we do. Wonderful husband and father but can be a little boring. More old movies tonight. Hung up to sound of DD1's wailing.


 My boys STILL love that movie....what man wouldn't?   Old movies, deck of cards, popcorn....what more could a family want?


----------



## Beekissed

purplequeenvt said:


> Your words didn't hurt me, but they did make me very sad. Who are you (or me or any of us) to decide whose life is worth less than a little bit of our “freedom” at this moment in time? I would gladly give up a lot of things temporarily if it meant that those weaker than me get a fighting chance to survive this virus.



I don't think it's about deciding who lives or dies at all....it's all about trust.   We simply do not trust our government and that distrust is WELL earned~it has nothing to do with one's politics, as I don't even participate in politics...it's about a track record down through the past 100 yrs and even beyond that. 

To trust blindly, especially in this intentionally hyped up, over dramatized situation, is okay for some....but others require more actual, real proof of the severity of the situation.  And I'm not talking about the stats, so called reports of this or that happening here or there....the urban myths that mark all such episodes...but a single thing that doesn't look extremely out of proportion....but we are not seeing that here, in this situation. 

All we see is a lot of misplaced fear and panic about a whole lot of nothing....we have no assurances at all that this thing is even a so called pandemic, no matter what they repeat or how often they repeat it.   We have no assurances that the reports from the CDC are not padded to create a certain environment of fear so that people will be afraid to question the wisdom of the measures they are putting in place.  

Sounds familiar.......





> “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”


----------



## High Desert Cowboy

The restaurant my wife works at is doing pick up orders and some delivery.  Shes having a hard time with it because she went from making $200 a night in tips to $20.  They’ve changed the hourly wage and are still paying her but it’s not what she’s used to.  A lot of people are out of work or working from home, but for me it’s business as usual.  I can’t phone in to the pig barn, pigs are smart but not smart enough to do as they’re told.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

High desert cowboy it they could the would take over lol pigs are smart critters lol i am glad they don't talk on the phone imagine the phone hill from them calling each other up lol.


----------



## purplequeenvt

Beekissed said:


> I don't think it's about deciding who lives or dies at all....it's all about trust.   We simply do not trust our government and that distrust is WELL earned~it has nothing to do with one's politics, as I don't even participate in politics...it's about a track record down through the past 100 yrs and even beyond that.
> 
> To trust blindly, especially in this intentionally hyped up, over dramatized situation, is okay for some....but others require more actual, real proof of the severity of the situation.  And I'm not talking about the stats, so called reports of this or that happening here or there....the urban myths that mark all such episodes...but a single thing that doesn't look extremely out of proportion....but we are not seeing that here, in this situation.
> 
> All we see is a lot of misplaced fear and panic about a whole lot of nothing....we have no assurances at all that this thing is even a so called pandemic, no matter what they repeat or how often they repeat it.   We have no assurances that the reports from the CDC are not padded to create a certain environment of fear so that people will be afraid to question the wisdom of the measures they are putting in place.
> 
> Sounds familiar.......



I don’t have a lot of trust in the government either and I guarantee that there are lots of people in power that will benefit from this in one way or another. There are a lot of us regular people who are being affected economically by this situation, myself included. I am a single woman living in a new place with very few contacts. I am currently unemployed, but because I am a healthcare worker, I stand a chance at finding a job still. There are a lot of people that won’t be as lucky. 

BUT I would rather have the states take action now and do what we can to limit the spread of the virus and have it end up being no big deal than be a skeptic and laugh it off (not saying anyone on here is doing that) and have it end up so much worse than could be imagined. EVERY single healthcare worker that I know is very concerned about this.

My main frustration right now is the toilet paper and cleaning supply situation. Seriously, why do people feel the need to have 3 years worth of paper products? I was at the grocery store yesterday and there wasn’t a roll of toilet paper or a box of tissues to be found. I’m ok on TP for now, but you can’t even order the stuff online. It’s not in stock anywhere. I didn’t even bother going down the cleaning aisle.


----------



## Beekissed

purplequeenvt said:


> Seriously, why do people feel the need to have 3 years worth of paper products?



Fear generated by all the hype surrounding this issue, pure and simple.   They are afraid they won't be able to get it later, so they buy it all up now.  Fear is a powerful tool if folks give into it. 

Folks are going to have to resort to family cloth for their wiping needs.  I predict huge problems as people start using and flushing things that should never be flushed.....city septic systems could begin to fail over it all.  Imagine the results of THAT, with no way to dispose of human waste.....


----------



## Jesusfreak101

I am gonna say we all going to have our own opinions on this matter but here my thoughts okay take it for what it is. This is a virus no matter what we do people are going to get it. The why we need shut things down  to slow it down is on the insane side more to me. One being if your sick with anything you should  not be exposing others to began with. I don't take my kids place if they have a mildcold, strep or anything else because it's common sense not to expose them to more things. Calling or asking people to self quarantine if their sick is one thing asking perfectly healthy people who aren't and don't have the virus to be quarantined as well is an over step. Yes the college kids are being slightly selfish but if they are healthy and practice good hygiene then what's the problem they could go clothes shopping and you could say they selfish for exposing their community. The point is that people have to contiune  living regardless of the chance they or someone the know or don't know is going to die we all will even my children will one day. I pray i go first but they and I aren't promised the next minute much less longer. So we can either hide from life as country and no one gets to do anything or we can continue on with life and be smart about what we are doing. Yes not everyone is but those who go to work sick aren't trying to make everyone sick they trying to pay bills to feed their families. It's not malicious to continue with ones life. It's what we need to do. No matter what happens life continues we cry and get bruised then we dust off and keep going.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Beekissed said:


> Fear generated by all the hype surrounding this issue, pure and simple.   They are afraid they won't be able to get it later, so they buy it all up now.  Fear is a powerful tool if folks give into it.
> 
> Folks are going to have to resort to family cloth for their wiping needs.  I predict huge problems as people start using and flushing things that should never be flushed.....city septic systems could begin to fail over it all.  Imagine the results of THAT, with no way to dispose of human waste.....


 They doing that is San Antonio with baby wipes you can't find any in the store my dh went and some older man was buying all they had. By older i mean 60+ unlikely age to have babies at home.


----------



## Xerocles

I would like to apologize to @purplequeenvt , and in fact to everyone on BYH. Not for the content of what I said earlier (I would defend my views to the bitter end) but for having said it in this forum.
This is BACK YARD HERDS. It is a place to gather as friends, commiserate with each other over the difficulties we face, celebrate our victories, small and large, and learn the advantages/disadvantages of hair sheep vs goats.
This isn't a political forum, but I got sucked into the politics of the situation. Easy enough to do, given the gravity of the situation. I think the purpose of this thread was probably innocent enough (? is affecting you and how.)...but we can only say "out of TP" or "out of work" so many times without the frustration of politics entering our thoughts.
So Again I am sorry I allowed myself to get caught up in the mass hysteria. Henceforth, I will avoid THIS PARTICULAR thread and concentrate instead on the quandry of hair sheep vs goats.
PS. @Beekissed you probably already know but since you didn't cite the source, your quote (the big lie) is from Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf. He was evil....but he WAS smart.


----------



## Beekissed

Xerocles said:


> I would like to apologize to @purplequeenvt , and in fact to everyone on BYH. Not for the content of what I said earlier (I would defend my views to the bitter end) but for having said it in this forum.
> This is BACK YARD HERDS. It is a place to gather as friends, commiserate with each other over the difficulties we face, celebrate our victories, small and large, and learn the advantages/disadvantages of hair sheep vs goats.
> This isn't a political forum, but I got sucked into the politics of the situation. Easy enough to do, given the gravity of the situation. I think the purpose of this thread was probably innocent enough (? is affecting you and how.)...but we can only say "out of TP" or "out of work" so many times without the frustration of politics entering our thoughts.
> So Again I am sorry I allowed myself to get caught up in the mass hysteria. Henceforth, I will avoid THIS PARTICULAR thread and concentrate instead on the quandry of hair sheep vs goats.
> PS. @Beekissed you probably already know but since you didn't cite the source, your quote (the big lie) is from Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf. He was evil....but he WAS smart.



I agree....I was determined from the beginning not to participate in these threads, as I can't stand a spirit of fear, but let my own frustration with it all draw me in.  I'm not a political person, by far, can't even stand to hear anyone discuss politics under any circumstances.  

You are right....this is about literal herds, not the figurative herds, and I'll try to refrain from getting mucked into the mire of it all.  It's hard....by far the hardest thing to do during this situation is to just keep one's mouth firmly shut.   

My vote is for hair sheep.....less parasitical problems, they flock together so less fence line escapes, and they have less health issues overall.   Katahdins get my vote for ease of lambing, good mothering, good and meaty carcasses.   They LOVE brush and thrive best on a grass/browse based system.   They are also smart as can be, so you'll grow to love their personalities...quirky, moochy and sweet.


----------



## purplequeenvt

Xerocles said:


> I would like to apologize to @purplequeenvt , and in fact to everyone on BYH. Not for the content of what I said earlier (I would defend my views to the bitter end) but for having said it in this forum.
> This is BACK YARD HERDS. It is a place to gather as friends, commiserate with each other over the difficulties we face, celebrate our victories, small and large, and learn the advantages/disadvantages of hair sheep vs goats.
> This isn't a political forum, but I got sucked into the politics of the situation. Easy enough to do, given the gravity of the situation. I think the purpose of this thread was probably innocent enough (? is affecting you and how.)...but we can only say "out of TP" or "out of work" so many times without the frustration of politics entering our thoughts.
> So Again I am sorry I allowed myself to get caught up in the mass hysteria. Henceforth, I will avoid THIS PARTICULAR thread and concentrate instead on the quandry of hair sheep vs goats.
> PS. @Beekissed you probably already know but since you didn't cite the source, your quote (the big lie) is from Adolf Hitler in Mein Kampf. He was evil....but he WAS smart.



No need to apologize. As my dad says, everyone is entitled to their own stupid opinion. Your opinion is just as important as mine or anyone else’s on here. At least we aren’t hoarding all the TP. 

As for your other problem: SHEEP all the way. I’m not a huge fan of the hair sheep personally though. I much prefer my woolies.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Corona virus just blocked a goat sale.  I have a buyer for one of my bucks and they are in Oklahoma.  The transporter was originally scheduled to pick him up tomorrow, but they have postponed for at least 2 weeks.  I can't say as I blame them.

Oh and one other thing.  I haven't been updating the journal in a while, but some of you remember I quit smoking.  It has been over a year and a half now.  So, with the virus, that's an ever better thing.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

OneFineAcre said:


> It has been over a year and a half now. So, with the virus, that's an ever better thing.


That's fantastic!  And, yes, good timing!


----------



## Bunnylady

Jesusfreak101 said:


> One being if your sick with anything you should not be exposing others to began with.




Apparently, it can take up to 14 days between exposure and the onset of symptoms with COVID-19, and there is some evidence that a person may be contagious before the symptoms appear.

How would one know,_ for sure_, whether or not they were contagious if they had no symptoms? On the flip side of that, it's pollen season here, and I cough and sneeze for a few weeks every year at this time. Without testing, who's going to know whether those symptoms (coughing and sneezing) are from contagious disease, or just annoying allergy? I'm pretty sure_ I _ know, but should I stay home until the pollen stops blowing around just in case I'm wrong? If I _know_ I'm sick, I do my best to keep my germs to myself, but who knows how many people I may expose before I'm sure?



Jesusfreak101 said:


> Yes not everyone is but those who go to work sick aren't trying to make everyone sick they trying to pay bills to feed their families.



One of the folks who has tested positive here works at the Verizon call center. That's a very modern work environment, with open seating, a break room, a gym, etc - we are talking possibly hundreds of people exposed (even assuming that the person in question stopped going to work when they realized they weren't just coughing because of pollen, but actually sick).


Jesusfreak101 said:


> The why we need shut things down to slow it down is on the insane side more to me.



Try this scenario on for size - you or one of your children (God forbid!) runs a fever and feels like they can't catch their breath. You call your doctor, or 911, and they say, "sorry, but there's nothing we can do for you. We have no supplies that could help you, no gloves or masks so we can't even protect ourselves in the event that you are contagious, no way to test to find out what you have, and even if you are desperately sick, there's no room in a hospital anyway. Keep hydrated, take Tylenol if you have it, and good luck. Hopefully, you'll be over it in a couple of weeks."

That's the scenario everyone is trying to avoid. The more you have people around each other, the more opportunities you have for them to pass disease around. If everyone was in an open area with at least 6' of distance between them and the next person, with infinite amounts of fresh air blowing around them, and nobody touching _anything_, it would be very hard for people to get sick. But most people don't exist like that. They are in much more crowded conditions, breathing the same air, touching all kinds of things and then touching their faces, spreading and spreading and spreading the germs around (and COVID-19 can survive for several _days_ on some surfaces like stainless steel and plastics). I have heard an estimate that 70% of the population may catch this before all is said and done, and of those that do get it, 20% may become sick enough to need hospitalization. If those percentages boggle, here's an example of what that means. My home county has roughly 200,000 residents. Doing the math, that comes out to about 28,000 people who get sick enough with COVID-19 to warrant a hospital stay (in addition to all the other reasons someone might need to go to the hospital). I guarantee you that our two hospitals don't have 28,000 beds, let alone that many rooms! If, by avoiding each other, we can slow this thing down to a crawl, those 28,000 New Hanover County residents will go into the hospital in dribs and drabs, and will all be able to get the care they need to (hopefully) recover because the hospital staff won't be too overwhelmed to be able to help them.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

My hubby is making me wear gloves and mask if we have to go somewhere...ugh.  We actually do have respirators, because he used to be a contractor, plus he paints cars, in our ‘paint booth’...so, if worse comes to worse....but, people are calling us us and asking us for our supplies...putting us in a very bad bind. Who do say yes to?  We have 3 resp.  About 30 masks.  Can’t give them to anybody....but, how do you say ‘no’?  Between family members alone there’s wayyy more than 30....


----------



## Baymule

Bunnylady said:


> Apparently, it can take up to 14 days between exposure and the onset of symptoms with COVID-19, and there is some evidence that a person may be contagious before the symptoms appear.
> 
> How would one know,_ for sure_, whether or not they were contagious if they had no symptoms? On the flip side of that, it's pollen season here, and I cough and sneeze for a few weeks every year at this time. Without testing, who's going to know whether those symptoms (coughing and sneezing) are from contagious disease, or just annoying allergy? I'm pretty sure_ I _ know, but should I stay home until the pollen stops blowing around just in case I'm wrong? If I _know_ I'm sick, I do my best to keep my germs to myself, but who knows how many people I may expose before I'm sure?
> 
> 
> 
> One of the folks who has tested positive here works at the Verizon call center. That's a very modern work environment, with open seating, a break room, a gym, etc - we are talking possibly hundreds of people exposed (even assuming that the person in question stopped going to work when they realized they weren't just coughing because of pollen, but actually sick).
> 
> 
> Try this scenario on for size - you or one of your children (God forbid!) runs a fever and feels like they can't catch their breath. You call your doctor, or 911, and they say, "sorry, but there's nothing we can do for you. We have no supplies that could help you, no gloves or masks so we can't even protect ourselves in the event that you are contagious, no way to test to find out what you have, and even if you are desperately sick, there's no room in a hospital anyway. Keep hydrated, take Tylenol if you have it, and good luck. Hopefully, you'll be over it in a couple of weeks."
> 
> That's the scenario everyone is trying to avoid. The more you have people around each other, the more opportunities you have for them to pass disease around. If everyone was in an open area with at least 6' of distance between them and the next person, with infinite amounts of fresh air blowing around them, and nobody touching _anything_, it would be very hard for people to get sick. But most people don't exist like that. They are in much more crowded conditions, breathing the same air, touching all kinds of things and then touching their faces, spreading and spreading and spreading the germs around (and COVID-19 can survive for several _days_ on some surfaces like stainless steel and plastics). I have heard an estimate that 70% of the population may catch this before all is said and done, and of those that do get it, 20% may become sick enough to need hospitalization. If those percentages boggle, here's an example of what that means. My home county has roughly 200,000 residents. Doing the math, that comes out to about 28,000 people who get sick enough with COVID-19 to warrant a hospital stay (in addition to all the other reasons someone might need to go to the hospital). I guarantee you that our two hospitals don't have 28,000 beds, let alone that many rooms! If, by avoiding each other, we can slow this thing down to a crawl, those 28,000 New Hanover County residents will go into the hospital in dribs and drabs, and will all be able to get the care they need to (hopefully) recover because the hospital staff won't be too overwhelmed to be able to help them.


THIS. Well said.


----------



## farmerjan

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> My hubby is making me wear gloves and mask if we have to go somewhere...ugh.  We actually do have respirators, because he used to be a contractor, plus he paints cars, in our ‘paint booth’...so, if worse comes to worse....but, people are calling us us and asking us for our supplies...putting us in a very bad bind. Who do say yes to?  We have 3 resp.  About 30 masks.  Can’t give them to anybody....but, how do you say ‘no’?  Between family members alone there’s wayyy more than 30....


You simply say that you only have a couple that you have to keep because of your immune deficient system.   You simply say no, we can't help you.  Stay home and stay away from people and you won't get it.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

I have an annoying cough all year round due to allergies...but my mind is playing tricks on me now..is it worse?  And, the only thermometer I have, is used for animals, and I sure don’t want to use that one...how could I make sure it was truly clean??


----------



## Ridgetop

Duckfarmerpa1 said:


> And, the only thermometer I have, is used for animals, and I sure don’t want to use that one...how could I make sure it was truly clean??



Soak it in bleach for *at least 10 minutes*.  It takes 10 minutes in bleach to kill the germs.  Then use soap and hot water (NOT boiling) to wash off the bleach.  Then soak in alcohol for another 5 minutes.  Should be germ free.  Rinse in water before putting it in your mouth though!  I used a rectal thermometer on my babies and used it for the rest of the family orally.  Washing it with straight bleach, hot soapy water, and alcohol kills the germs.  

DH went to get hay this am.  On Saturday when they got 2 semi loads the hay store sold out by 10 am and he couldn't get any.  Today they decided to put a limit of 10 bales per customer.     People are starting to hoard hay now.   I really wish he had listened 3 weeks ago when I told him to stock up.  He poo pooed me since we still had some.  Now we are getting low.  DH may try going back for another 10 bales tomorrow.  

I guess we are lucky we are down to feeding just the mule and the sheep.  Otherwise, if we were full feeding now it would barely do us a week.  God was good to send us these rains.  We are getting enough growth that we are only feeding one hay feed at night.  The February lambs are getting a creep so they will keep growing ok.  I need to call my butcher today and see if he is open or if he closed due to this virus.  I have 5 wethers that should be about ready and that would be 5 fewer mouths to feed.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I have been going into the office, but it became a directive that that I *have* to work from home.  Only about 25% of the people were coming into the office, so I felt I was safe there and prefer going into the office.   So, when I came home this afternoon I brought my monitors, docking station, keyboard etc.  Its probably going to be at least 2 weeks.


----------



## bethh

If the rain stays away tomorrow, I hope to get our garden planted at least a start.  Starting this week, I began keeping our 5 year old grandson as school closed and mom still has to go to work and dad works from home but can't possibly keep a 5 year old and still conduct conferences and meetings from home.  Looks like the 5 year old will be joined next  week by 2 cousins a 4 year old and 2 year old because day care closes starting Monday.  We hatched 9 silkies the other day.  Now we have 30 eggs in the incubator.  We hope the goats are pregnant.  Trying to do what we can to stay ahead of this thing as best we can.


----------



## Miss mouse

both my workplaces shut down. I’m teaching one student via Skype for one lesson per week so essentially not working now. My boyfriend is still hauling grain but since we have so many mouths to feed I don’t get to ride along with him. I’m spending a lot of time with the rabbits as a result. I think they wish I wouldn’t but some are coming to appreciate the pets they didn’t used to get 😂 I don’t think the mommas appreciate my diligence in making sure their babies are getting fed


----------



## Ridgetop

Heard yesterday that the stores are restocking and things are staying on the shelves.  I guess the people that bought up all the toilet paper, hand sanitizer, and canned goods have either run out of money, or space to store all their groceries!  

Just called my butcher and he said they were open during the quarantine for kill and cut.  I can bring in my wethers whenever I want.


----------



## rachels.haven

My son's school is now closed until May 4th, but school lets out the middle of June, so my guess is this year is a wash now.


----------



## babsbag

Some of the schools in CA are closed for the year.


----------



## purplequeenvt

VT schools are out for the year too.


----------



## farmerjan

Va is also closed for the remainder of the school year.


----------



## rachels.haven

Looks like that's that on the kids front then. Good. No sharing in class. Nobody should be forced to send their kid so they will bring this home to their grandparents or immunocompromised family member. 
Which is good for us. Someone in a neighboring town from us has already died of this and people are testing positive in our town now too. This is about to become a big mess.


----------



## Mike CHS

Tennessee is converting to online school for K-12 but not having kids involved, I have no idea how successful it will be. We have a good Governor that is even working out how to get computers and internet signal to those that don't have it.


----------



## rachels.haven

Google should somehow do a humanitarian project involving nationwide google fi and get kids hooked up to their schooling. They're going to make plenty of $ in advertising to homebound internet absorbing people over the next few months, after all.

I think our school system wants to go online for education too BUT that's kind of a lot to ask from teachers out of the blue. There is school chromebook loaning out going on here. State law/policy or whatever says online school assignments here can't be mandatory though...so I'm not really sure what's going on anymore.


----------



## babsbag

rachels.haven said:


> Someone in a neighboring town from us has already died of this and people are testing positive in our town now too. This is about to become a big mess.



We have had three cases in our county and one person has died. DH is working from home for the next three weeks and then he might have to go back. Depending on what is happening he may just quit the job. At least we both have our retirements so I won't be homeless. My anxiety level is pretty high and this isn't normal for me...I am sure it is the mold.


----------



## Sheepshape

Little Britain is locked down, too. Schools shut, universities doing only online work, all non-essential shops shut, spaced (and policed) queueing in supermarkets, non-essential travel banned (and imprisonment as the consequence of disobedience) and all public venues closed for the foreseeable future (cafes, pubs, clubs, even funerals, weddings etc). All non-emergency medical and surgical treatment stopped, even cancer chemotherapy being delayed. No visiting anyone apart from tending to those who are unable to care for themselves at home.

Feels a little unreal. I'm actually glad to be lambing in order to be kept firmly on site.

Keep safe, folks, and we'll reach the other side. Sorry to hear about those of you who are badly affected by restrictions and inability to work ( our usually spineless government are paying 80% of wages to those who are unable to work due to the restrictions). 

They sat 'that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger'.....keep strong, keep resolute...we can get through this.

Just try to remember that most folk who catch the virus have a 'flu-like illness which won't be pleasant, but we will get over it (God willing).

Sheepshape.....in an unusually sober mood.


----------



## Baymule

My county has finally gone on a shelter at home order at midnight tonight through April 10. About time, there are 27 cases here. We are hunkered down and not going anywhere.









						Smith County issues stay-at-home order after more than 25 COVID-19 cases
					

TYLER, Texas (KETK) – Just four days after he said he would only use it as a last resort, Smith County Judge Nathaniel Moran issued a county-wide “stay-at-home” order Friday after…




					www.easttexasmatters.com


----------



## Ridgetop

I have heard that the malaria drug combined with Z-packs will cure the virus.  Also, the percentage of deaths is probably not as high as is being reported in the press.  Right now it is around 1% of total cases in the USA with very few people actually tested.  Hopefully as the number of people tested goes higher, the ratio of number of deaths will drop.  The media hype about the US now having more cases than a lot of the hard hit places in Europe is silly.  Of course we have lots of cases, we have lots of people.  You could fit all of Europe inside part of the US and have lots of room left over for other countries!!!  The outbreak in New Orleans has been traced to the Mardi Gras celebration which is attended by tons of tourists from all over.  The upsurge in Chinese cases stemmed from the Chinese New Year celebrations in Wouhan that the Chinese allowed to go on with no quarantines, and then many of those people left the country to return to jobs and families outside China.  Italy's massive outbreak relates to the number of Chinese workers in that country who returned to Italy after the Chinese New Year.  Cruises are very popular with Asians, and the crew members come from all over the world.  With the contained spaces on the cruise ships, it is no wonder the cruise ship passengers and crews get the virus.  Time to calm down and take a hard look at this situation,  

My son and husband also heard that blood type has something to do with higher resistance.  Type O+ had the highest resistance while Type A has the least.   I wonder if anyone has thought to correlate the number  of positive tests with few or less intense symptoms with the blood type.  Not saying this is fact, but it would be interesting for scientists to check this out in future. 

We have wondered if our family had Covid already since I was not feeling well when I got back from our cruise to Hawaii with the final day ashore in Mexico on February 12.   When I returned home, I stayed in bed for over a week feeling exhausted and with a mild cough.  (I didn't even unpack the suitcases!)  Several days later DH, DS1, and future DIL all had high fevers of 103+ for 2 days and bad coughs for almost a week.  DS2 coughed till I thought he would lose a lung!  He also had to call in sick during his fever which is unheard of for him since taking a day off during his apprenticeship could men he loses his place in the program.  LOL  DH called the doctor and we were told we did not fit the symptoms.  DS1 had a mild cough like mine, and nether DS1 nor I had fevers.  We were all exhausted and exertion brought us out in a sweat.  This all happened 2 weeks before the ship was quarantined off San Francisco.

DS1 and I have O+ blood which would account for us having milder symptoms if the blood type resistance to Covid is true.  DH and DS2 have B+.  We know our blood types because DH, DS1 and DS2 routinely give blood and our Grandson did a science paper on blood types in families.  

We don't want to ask for testing, figuring we should leave the test kits for those who are currently sick.  When they eventually develop the other test using a drop of blood, or a test to see if you have had it, we may ask to be tested.  Another doctor has found that blood with antibodies can be a cure for desperately sick Covid sufferers. He is looking for Covid survivors to donate blood for this new study.

Did you hear that NY Governor Cuomo has been screaming that he needs 30,000 ventilators from Trump just for his state?  (I guess Trump is hiding them in his closet?)  Now it has come out that Cuomo apparently has 5,000 ventilators stocked away in storage and has refused to pass them around to the hospitals since he says he has to "save them for when the pandemic hits its apex"!   ???  

Frankly I don't believe most of the media reports.  Has anyone noticed how desperate the newscasters sound that they can't report people dropping died in the streets from this epidemic?

I have pretty much stopped watching or reading about this anymore.  Most of the reporting is so repetitive!


----------



## Baymule

​


----------



## Baymule

​


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

Ridgetop said:


> Soak it in bleach for *at least 10 minutes*.  It takes 10 minutes in bleach to kill the germs.  Then use soap and hot water (NOT boiling) to wash off the bleach.  Then soak in alcohol for another 5 minutes.  Should be germ free.  Rinse in water before putting it in your mouth though!  I used a rectal thermometer on my babies and used it for the rest of the family orally.  Washing it with straight bleach, hot soapy water, and alcohol kills the germs.
> 
> DH went to get hay this am.  On Saturday when they got 2 semi loads the hay store sold out by 10 am and he couldn't get any.  Today they decided to put a limit of 10 bales per customer.     People are starting to hoard hay now.   I really wish he had listened 3 weeks ago when I told him to stock up.  He poo pooed me since we still had some.  Now we are getting low.  DH may try going back for another 10 bales tomorrow.
> 
> I guess we are lucky we are down to feeding just the mule and the sheep.  Otherwise, if we were full feeding now it would barely do us a week.  God was good to send us these rains.  We are getting enough growth that we are only feeding one hay feed at night.  The February lambs are getting a creep so they will keep growing ok.  I need to call my butcher today and see if he is open or if he closed due to this virus.  I have 5 wethers that should be about ready and that would be 5 fewer mouths to feed.


Thanks a ton!!  I hope I don’t NEED to do use it...but if I need a thermometer..now I know how to make mine safe!!


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

My hubby is making me wear a mask and gloves when we go somewhere or even if somebody comes to the farm.  Ugh...buts better safe than sorry, I guess.  Every deep breath that is sore...I worry...was it that way before?  The mind plays tricks...  but, we were forced to go to Walmart today..people are not practicing social distancing at all!  We did...but others didn’t seem to care.  .?


----------



## Mike CHS

We have been staying home but we needed to head down to Ardmore, Alabama to pick up a load of feed. Our area is like a ghost town but Ardmore looked like business as normal   The feed store was busy but they are the main player with bulk food.


----------



## Baymule

We went to Lowes today, I wanted weed cloth to try in the garden. We tried to keep distance from other people, but they didn't seem to bother with it. Dang people! keep your germs to yourself! We lathered up with hand sanitizer when we got to the truck and changed clothes when we got home.


----------



## Beekissed

Went food shopping today and don't know what all the hoohaw has been about....milk and eggs aplenty in the stores, TP too.   A few things missing from shelves but overall plenty of all the staples~bought flour, pasta and such.   There wasn't anything on my list I couldn't find or get.   Sam's Club had the most to offer of everything, most shelves fully stocked, HUGE packages of premium TP with a limit of one....but it's 45 jumbo rolls of TP, so the limit isn't a hardship. 

They even had my fave cheap dog food restocked at Rural King....ordered 20 PWR str. run chicks from them today.   They say they aren't taking special orders but the lady said she would ask if she could tag it onto their standing weekly order.  Hope I get them so I can shove them under my first broody of the year...she's been waiting for a week plus for eggs or chicks.    

Beautiful day here and folks out shopping and such....saw a few with masks, some with gloves but overall folks just acting like normal.


----------



## farmerjan

Va now has a declared stay at home order by the governor.  Mostly because there are still too many DUMBA$$es going to the beaches while it was so nice over the weekend.... and out confirmed # of cases is over 1,000.  Got a couple of farms not wanting to test for a couple of weeks they say.....


----------



## Beekissed

y'all will get a chuckle out of this......


----------



## promiseacres

How is it affecting us? Today I'm feeling sad and overwhelmed... no end in sight.  DH started his day at work being told his coworker was at home with a fever.... that strikes instant fear into us... shortly later DH texted that the coworker had had a test and it was negative, the coworker has bronchitis.  I know this won't be our first scare... DH is expected to continue to work as a service tech unless he is sick... even if the state's lock down continues beyond next week.  Is it a true lock down if only hair salons, restaurants and schools are closed?  
Trying to stay busy and productive but it's hard.  It's normal for me and kids to be home and schooling goes on as normal here. But we miss our activities and friends. Technology can't replace face to face contact, and we you are around someone else (even a neighbor) there's a feeling of keep away, keep back...  I can't imagine that we'll have a soft ball or tee ball season. But I keep working with the kids. We get school done then things around the house and farm done. 
I know dad's living apart from their families...  it could be worse.


----------



## Baymule

I’m sorry that y’all have to be so fearful because of his job. That sucks. I pray that y’all stay safe. 

There is a furniture store in Tyler that is staying open. I watch their commercials with disgust. If someone coughs on a sofa, then someone else sits on it..... It looks like a cluster time.


----------



## Mike CHS

That's the same kind of loose lock down that we are in.  The TN Governor put out that if you can "safely" do your job, you can continue but there wasn't a whole lot of guidelines other than that.


----------



## thistlebloom

Ridgetop said:


> I have heard that the malaria drug combined with Z-packs will cure the virus.  Also, the percentage of deaths is probably not as high as is being reported in the press.  Right now it is around 1% of total cases in the USA with very few people actually tested.  Hopefully as the number of people tested goes higher, the ratio of number of deaths will drop.  The media hype about the US now having more cases than a lot of the hard hit places in Europe is silly.  Of course we have lots of cases, we have lots of people.  You could fit all of Europe inside part of the US and have lots of room left over for other countries!!!  The outbreak in New Orleans has been traced to the Mardi Gras celebration which is attended by tons of tourists from all over.  The upsurge in Chinese cases stemmed from the Chinese New Year celebrations in Wouhan that the Chinese allowed to go on with no quarantines, and then many of those people left the country to return to jobs and families outside China.  Italy's massive outbreak relates to the number of Chinese workers in that country who returned to Italy after the Chinese New Year.  Cruises are very popular with Asians, and the crew members come from all over the world.  With the contained spaces on the cruise ships, it is no wonder the cruise ship passengers and crews get the virus.  Time to calm down and take a hard look at this situation,
> 
> My son and husband also heard that blood type has something to do with higher resistance.  Type O+ had the highest resistance while Type A has the least.   I wonder if anyone has thought to correlate the number  of positive tests with few or less intense symptoms with the blood type.  Not saying this is fact, but it would be interesting for scientists to check this out in future.
> 
> We have wondered if our family had Covid already since I was not feeling well when I got back from our cruise to Hawaii with the final day ashore in Mexico on February 12.   When I returned home, I stayed in bed for over a week feeling exhausted and with a mild cough.  (I didn't even unpack the suitcases!)  Several days later DH, DS1, and future DIL all had high fevers of 103+ for 2 days and bad coughs for almost a week.  DS2 coughed till I thought he would lose a lung!  He also had to call in sick during his fever which is unheard of for him since taking a day off during his apprenticeship could men he loses his place in the program.  LOL  DH called the doctor and we were told we did not fit the symptoms.  DS1 had a mild cough like mine, and nether DS1 nor I had fevers.  We were all exhausted and exertion brought us out in a sweat.  This all happened 2 weeks before the ship was quarantined off San Francisco.
> 
> DS1 and I have O+ blood which would account for us having milder symptoms if the blood type resistance to Covid is true.  DH and DS2 have B+.  We know our blood types because DH, DS1 and DS2 routinely give blood and our Grandson did a science paper on blood types in families.
> 
> We don't want to ask for testing, figuring we should leave the test kits for those who are currently sick.  When they eventually develop the other test using a drop of blood, or a test to see if you have had it, we may ask to be tested.  Another doctor has found that blood with antibodies can be a cure for desperately sick Covid sufferers. He is looking for Covid survivors to donate blood for this new study.
> 
> Did you hear that NY Governor Cuomo has been screaming that he needs 30,000 ventilators from Trump just for his state?  (I guess Trump is hiding them in his closet?)  Now it has come out that Cuomo apparently has 5,000 ventilators stocked away in storage and has refused to pass them around to the hospitals since he says he has to "save them for when the pandemic hits its apex"!   ???
> 
> Frankly I don't believe most of the media reports.  Has anyone noticed how desperate the newscasters sound that they can't report people dropping died in the streets from this epidemic?
> 
> I have pretty much stopped watching or reading about this anymore.  Most of the reporting is so repetitive!



Thank you Ridgetop. You make so much sense. I too have stopped tuning in to the media. They have proven time and again that they will lie when it suits their agendas, and that was long before the China virus, it just seems as though the Cvirus has been a handy tool for them to fear monger. It's like the old lawyer joke, how do you know when they're lieing? When their lips are moving.

I was down this morning, just discouraged at the state of the world, but my husband reminded me that God hasn't changed, nor will He ever. What is meant to harm us, God can use for good. He just wants us to trust Him through it all, and I will.

Snowed again today and I am so done with snow. I know the sun will shine again and things will grow, just trying to be patient.


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> That's the same kind of loose lock down that we are in.  The TN Governor put out that if you can "safely" do your job, you can continue but there wasn't a whole lot of guidelines other than that.


That leaves it wide open. that isn't much of a lockdown.


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## Baymule

37 cases in my county now, still spreading.


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## promiseacres

Our county is surrounded so far no cases confirmed yet..


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## B&B Happy goats

Surrounded here in Florida too, sure wish people would stop coming here from NY and other areas..., as much as our neighbors have been traveling  to the hospital for health reasons I am pretty sure it will just be a matter of days before they get it. Gainsville fl has lots of the virus and so do all the counties around us. Stay safe everyone


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## Bunnylady

Saying that "a gummy bear has more teeth than the governor's order," the sheriff of a nearby county requested (and was granted) a 10 pm to 5 am curfew. His argument is that there will be fewer accidents, therefore fewer first responders and medical personnel exposed. There's a huge logic leap in that, maybe several - I think he just wanted something specific to charge people with when he encounters them late at night.


----------



## Mike CHS

Even though the Tennessee order doesn't have a lot of teeth, people are paying attention.  I called the vet and asked them to set aside flea and tick collars for three of our dogs and when I got there, saw that they are only letting one client at a time in the office and provide a station to wash your hands as you come in.

Traffic in town is usually pretty heavy at noon but today looked like a Sunday morning.  All of the restaurants are closed as well as most of the fast food places.


----------



## OneFineAcre

There are a lot of exceptions for essential business here in NC.  Such as liquor stores.  But, I guess we don't need the alcoholics crowding the ER's because of withdrawal either.
Maurine and I were talking about it and probably the best thing they did was when they closed the schools.  All of those kids getting together every day and then going back to their house and their grandparents.  That probably more than anything slowed this thing down.
And in hindsight the mayor of NY not closing the schools may be partly to blame for why things are so bad there now.


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## babsbag

My vet is having people pay with credit card over the phone and they are picking up the pet from the car and then holding the appointment via phone. No one other than staff is allowed inside at all.


----------



## Xerocles

I hesitate to post this. So much junk online these days. BUT. If it turns out to be true and I didn't pass it along, I'd feel like an idiot. I received a text from a friend (whom I trust) from a friend of his (whom I don't know and therefore don't trust).
The f of a f is supposedly in the National Guard, and they've been notified that Homeland Security is activating N.G. nationwide for control of looting because Trump is invoking the Stafford Act to imposed a curfew nationwide as of this weekend. This appears to be an April Fool sort of thing, because the Stafford Act (nor anything else) authorizes the President the power to impose a nationwide curfew.
So, if you receive anything pertaining to this....it's PROBABLY junk, and don't let it add to the paranoia.


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## promiseacres

Yesterday our county almost got put on the Corvideo 19 map.... someone who lives in a community on the outskirts of the county has it...if they lived on the other side of the road it would have been our county....doesn't matter that they work here.... 
Going on a drive by birthday parade  for a friends daughter.


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## Baymule

This is a cute story. It made me think about @Sheepshape









						A Bunch Of Goats Just Took Over A Welsh Town During Quarantine
					

A herd of wild mountain goats has overrun a town in North Wales, U.K. As the coronavirus pandemic takes over the entire world and humans are forced inside in an attempt to slow the rate of infection, one group of individuals is not taking social distancing seriously. Mountain goats. In the midst...




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## farmerjan

Saw that article on the mountain goats "moving into town" during the absence of the normal human activities.


----------



## Baymule

67 cases in my county now. My daughter and family thinks they all had it in January. Then my husband got what they had and is just now getting over it. Who knows?


----------



## rachels.haven

2,202 cases in my county... anybody want to trade for a day? Grocery day is coming and I don't want to go out...


----------



## Sheepshape

Baymule said:


> This is a cute story. It made me think about @Sheepshape


There's a wonderful video of the goats tearing around Aberystwyth, eating off all the gardens etc as we are on 'lockdown'. The goats look to be in lovely condition and are now feral goats whose ancestors were escapees quite some while back who normally live in the surrounding mountains .Looks really apt for Aberystwth....hopefully they will continue to come down to town when lockdown eventually ends. They have come down into town before when the weather has been very harsh. If truth is but known the townsfolk love them.


----------



## Sheepshape

Mike CHS said:


> Even though the Tennessee order doesn't have a lot of teeth, people are paying attention. I called the vet and asked them to set aside flea and tick collars for three of our dogs and when I got there, saw that they are only letting one client at a time in the office and provide a station to wash your hands as you come in.
> 
> Traffic in town is usually pretty heavy at noon but today looked like a Sunday morning. All of the restaurants are closed as well as most of the fast food places.


Here in mid-Wales folk are behaving quite well. too. Supermarkets have 'spacer lines' to ensure social distancing outside the store entrance and by the checkouts where folk must wait. Only a certain number of folk are allowed into the store. There's disinfectant wipes for the trolleys and perspex screens in front of the cashiers. We're encouraged to pay 'contactless' and to take our own receipts or go through the 'self serve' checkouts.

The farm store has its shop closed. Feed and farm supplies are ordered and paid for over the 'phone and we give our car reg. number and our approximate time to get to the store. There we are encouraged to stay in our vehicles and feed etc is loaded into the trailer/trunk. Very little contact.



OneFineAcre said:


> There are a lot of exceptions for essential business here in NC.  Such as liquor stores.  But, I guess we don't need the alcoholics crowding the ER's because of withdrawal either.
> Maurine and I were talking about it and probably the best thing they did was when they closed the schools.  All of those kids getting together every day and then going back to their house and their grandparents.  That probably more than anything slowed this thing down.
> And in hindsight the mayor of NY not closing the schools may be partly to blame for why things are so bad there now.


Our 'booze shops' remain open, too. I like a drop of wine (or two) but always have a good supply in, so don't need to  go anywhere other than my local supermarkets.  Like you, our little country did 'too little, too late' in my opinion, such that schools, pubs, non-essential shops etc remained open whilst the virus spread. Our infection rates are much like yours. Hopefully lockdown will arrest that growth for all of us.


----------



## Xerocles

And....at 6am, South Carolina has a burning ban "until further notice". Seems smoke inhalation mimics symptoms of Covid 19. Wettest winter/ spring in memory and I just cleared an area for a burn pile two weeks ago.
Guess we're about to go into a stay at home and don't do anything phase.


----------



## Baymule

Score! I found a new 4 pack of masks in a cabinet. We gave one to our daughter, she was going to Sam’s for groceries.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Went to the dr today, they had a tent at the driveway entrance, nurses took temp asked travel  questions and general flu symptoms questions, all staff inside wore masks, Dr. Had mask and full face shield and gloves. 
Walmart pharmacy,  you had to wait in line 6 foot apart  to get your turn to go inside the store..., pharmacy now has full plexi shield up for their masked personel, cashiers have plexi for their safety in the grocery checkout.....
Felt like I went out into another world today...not comfortable one at all !


----------



## Mike CHS

I have a couple of respirators that I use when spraying paint that ought to keep people at least 6 feet away from me if I wore that.


----------



## Bunnylady

Mike CHS said:


> I have a couple of respirators that I use when spraying paint that ought to keep people at least 6 feet away from me if I wore that.



my husband has a respirator that he wore while spraying a customer's lawn. The customer asked him to stop; he said it was  scaring the neighbors.


The chief surgeon at the local hospital thinks everyone should wear masks, even if you are out walking the dog, or whatever - you never know when you might encounter another human. He admits it probably won't protect you, other than keeping you from touching your face, but he thinks just seeing you wearing a mask (any mask) will make people try to avoid you - thereby keeping you from infecting them.


----------



## Margali

Bunnylady said:


> The chief surgeon at the local hospital thinks everyone should wear masks, even if you are out walking the dog, or whatever - you never know when you might encounter another human. He admits it probably won't protect you,


This is the part that is driving me nuts right now! Everyone is saying wear a fashion fabric masks! Sew masks for our nurses! This is a MEGAFAIL on 2 counts- Particle Size and Fit.
Virii are < 0.3 microns. Some sources say Coronavirus particles  are on average 0.125 micron. A N95 micron mask will catch 95% of <0.007 micron particles by design. Fabric with a micron rating under 5 microns let alone 1 is NOT standard household fabric! https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/coronavirus-pollution-masks-n95-surgical-mask/ 

Also, to actually catch anything the air needs to not bypass the filter. Any gaps around your nose or jaw means the air will go right on by. The basic work fit test is mask on tight and swamp gas stink tube while your head is a bag. You smell it your mask didn't fit. You could use these inside a well fitted fabric and get somewhere, maybe. Most stock in raw 0.1micron sheet goods is being diverted. https://www.sterlitech.com/polypropylene-membrane-filter-0-1-micron-254-x-3000mm-1-pk.html 

Random fabric on hand- it's like trying to catch mice with 6"x 6" welded wire.  Just increasing my anxiety that CDC is basically recommending a placebo.


----------



## babsbag

I think that the rapid rate of spread is one way to determine what a person is sick with. I don't see how anyone can not catch it if they live in the same house.  But I might be wrong.  There should be a antibodies test soon; looks like CDC just rolled it out.


----------



## promiseacres

My husband says the masks is so you don't share the virus.. not so you don't get it.  He says he can't wear it for his job... not for 8 to 10 hours working on farm equipment... IDK  I am going to get groceries tonight... probably won't wear anything, though I have a respirator for working in the farmhouse... Makes me feel like Darth.


----------



## babsbag

Even the CDC is saying to wear a fabric mask if going out and they have patterns on their website for making them. While it may not be perfect it is better than nothing. I made one for my husband that has a pocket for an additional filter and the suggestion from the CDC for a filter is a coffee filter. I also read that blue shop paper towels are the best...they did some actual lab testing to find a good filter. I can't find paper masks, but I can make a cloth one. 




Margali said:


> This is the part that is driving me nuts right now! Everyone is saying wear a fashion fabric masks! Sew masks for our nurses! This is a MEGAFAIL on 2 counts- Particle Size and Fit.
> Virii are < 0.3 microns. Some sources say Coronavirus particles  are on average 0.125 micron. A N95 micron mask will catch 95% of <0.007 micron particles by design. Fabric with a micron rating under 5 microns let alone 1 is NOT standard household fabric! https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/coronavirus-pollution-masks-n95-surgical-mask/
> 
> Also, to actually catch anything the air needs to not bypass the filter. Any gaps around your nose or jaw means the air will go right on by. The basic work fit test is mask on tight and swamp gas stink tube while your head is a bag. You smell it your mask didn't fit. You could use these inside a well fitted fabric and get somewhere, maybe. Most stock in raw 0.1micron sheet goods is being diverted. https://www.sterlitech.com/polypropylene-membrane-filter-0-1-micron-254-x-3000mm-1-pk.html
> 
> Random fabric on hand- it's like trying to catch mice with 6"x 6" welded wire.  Just increasing my anxiety that CDC is basically recommending a placebo.


----------



## rachels.haven

It is true the masks let some virus particles through, but something is better than nothing. I think you need a face shield and gloves and a plastic suit to be really (mostly) safe. That's not happening.

Here's a fun article. But I don't want to breathe through vacuum bags...


----------



## OneFineAcre

The animal transport company decided to make a run.  It's the lady and her sister traveling together.  They have a sleeper and all they really have to do is stop for gas.
So, Sinai Thunder AD Valiant *S*B has a long trip ahead to his new herd in Oklahoma.
Safe Travels.


----------



## Ridgetop

Baymule said:


> 67 cases in my county now. My daughter and family thinks they all had it in January. Then my husband got what they had and is just now getting over it. Who knows?


I think I had it when I got back from my cruise to Hawaii on February 12.  Went to bed with exhaustion and a mild cough, thinking I was getting a cold.  No fever BUT I take Elderberry supplement with Vitamin C and ZINC.  When I think I am getting a cold I pop those suckers like candy.  I was eating about 4 + per day so maybe that helped me stave off a major attack.  4 days later DH ran a 103 degree fever for 2 days then gradually recovered.  DS1 had a bad cough, while DS2 and future DIL had 103+ fevers and bad coughs.  I have wondered if we all had it then as well.  DH called the doctor who told us without seeing us that pneumonia like symptoms and inability to breath were the virus symptoms and we did not have it.  However, I wonder if a lot of people got it in a mild form, but weren't tested so didn't know they had it.  I am interested in the antibody test to see if we had it.  A lot of people that are testing positive are not showing symptoms while some people that have it are having very mild symptoms.  Who knows?

Our neighbor called yesterday in a panic asking if I had any bias binding.  It appears that the fabric stores are now enjoying a major run on fabric, elastic and bias tape for making masks.  The neighbor couldn't get any elastic or binding at the store so she called me.  Her sister broke her sewing machine and ran to the large fabric store and was able to buy the LAST one in stock!  They have a business and have been told that although they are in the necessary class everyone in the metal shop needs to wear masks now.  She was making masks last night.  Not sure what fabric they are using buy they are making masks.  Oh yes, I gave her 3 pack of binding plus an open pack so about 14 yards of 1/4" bifold binding.  I might have elastic somewhere but  better save it in case we need masks.  LOL  I could make a bunch of masks with the boxes of fabric I have from when I made quilts, but don't want to get sued if they are not the required microns or whatever!   On the other hand, I could make some really cute ones by appliqueing smiley lips on the masks!  LOL

My future DIL's grandfather is in the hospital ICU since last Friday on a respirator.  Holding his own so hopefully that I good news.  Future DIL and her family were all tested 2 days ago.  FDIL's test was negative.  If it had been positive we would have had to get one too.

Getting some stuff done around here but the rain keeps coming.  The green forage keeps growing and we are supposed to have it all cut by the end of April!


----------



## babsbag

I had my niece-in-law in OR make me 4 masks and send them to us. I just didn't want to make any but I did make DH one. @Ridgetop  there is a pattern on the web to make a mask that is double and has a pocket for a filter; that is what I made DH.  You can put shop towels in the pocket or CDC suggest a coffee filter.


----------



## Mike CHS

We are going to take advantage of Kroger's order online and pickup outside the store.  You still need to plan ahead though since the order we placed yesterday won't be ready for pickup until Tuesday morning.


----------



## Ridgetop

Had our prolapsed ewe put down today.  The gentleman from dead animal pickup said that effective tomorrow everyone MUST wear masks in public per mayor or get a fine!  Time to make masks I suppose.


----------



## Baymule

Ridgetop said:


> Had our prolapsed ewe put down today.  The gentleman from dead animal pickup said that effective tomorrow everyone MUST wear masks in public per mayor or get a fine!  Time to make masks I suppose.


Sorry about your ewe, I know it was coming, but it still is sad. So now you have to wear a mask in public. It is encouraged here, so we do. I had a couple of those n95 masks from cleaning the barn. I found a 4 pack of masks that I kept for when we clean out the barn. I gave one to our daughter and a zip lock bag to keep it in. The post office uses an orange smelling disinfectant that makes my chemical issues flare up. Now my durned mask smells like it, blech. Maybe i'll air it out in the sun tomorrow. My luck, a bird would probably poop on it. 

88 cases in my county now, 2 deaths.


----------



## Ridgetop

Sadly, FDIL got the news about her grandfather who is in the hospital ICU with Covid. He is 80 years old and had tuberculosis in his youth in the Philippines. He also has other scarring in his lungs from bouts of pneumonia and some fibrosis in the lungs too. The doctors have said that he is terminal, and can never breath again without a ventilator. Although he is on the ventilator now the doctor said he is in a great deal of pain just trying to breathe. The family can't even go to see him and the priest can't go to give him the last rites. Devastating news. He is a very sweet man and was looking forward to FDIL and DS2 getting married. It would have been the first wedding among FDIL's siblings and they were planning to have a baby right away. FDIL wanted her grandfather to be able to hold his first great grandchild. Our whole family is crushed by this news. Also the family can't go to the hospital to be with him as he dies. Normally we would all get together to pray with the family, now maybe not even be able to have the rosary or funeral mass.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm so sorry to hear this.  Our thoughts and prayers are with him, and you and your families.


----------



## farmerjan

Prayers also from Va.  I am not sure why they will not let the priest administer last rites if he is garbed like one of the hospital workers.  Is there no priest there that has had the virus and recovered to be able to go to hospitals even if it is not their own "family priest"???  Sad for all of you ...


----------



## promiseacres

So sorry.  
 We still just have 1 case in our county but not many tests have been available. It's only a matter of time before we all know someone.


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## OneFineAcre

That's so sad.  I'm very sorry.


----------



## Ridgetop

Thank you all for your support and prayers.  I will suggest that to my FDIL about the priest being able to come if in mask and gown.  However, because grandpa actually _has _Covid may be why no one is allowed in to see him.  If he was just sick in the hospital it might be different although a lot of hospitals are not allowing any visitors anyway..


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

There Is one case in our tiny town of 1,500...so that’s it in the county.  We wipe down groceries after buying them with wet wipes because we don’t know who touched them.  I have people coming to get bunnies today.  We are meeting them at the grocery store parking lot...bunnies in a box, ready for hand off.  Masks, gloves are always on!!  The only traveling we have done is to go to another close town, to farms...for animals or equipment.  Still wear masks, gloves.  Much distance...but it helps when you only see 1-2 people on a farm, unlike the 35 at the tiny store.


----------



## Baymule

I’m so sorry @Ridgetop that your FDIL’s grandpa is  sick with Covid on top of his other health issues. How sad and devastating for everyone. I have sat with sick and dying family members more times than I  care to count. For the family to be denied those final moments is heartbreaking. For grandpa to be denied the comfort of his family and the love around him, is devastating, for him and the whole family.  It makes me grieve with you.


----------



## babsbag

Ridgetop said:


> Sadly, FDIL got the news about her grandfather who is in the hospital ICU with Covid. He is 80 years old and had tuberculosis in his youth in the Philippines. He also has other scarring in his lungs from bouts of pneumonia and some fibrosis in the lungs too. The doctors have said that he is terminal, and can never breath again without a ventilator. Although he is on the ventilator now the doctor said he is in a great deal of pain just trying to breathe. The family can't even go to see him and the priest can't go to give him the last rites. Devastating news. He is a very sweet man and was looking forward to FDIL and DS2 getting married. It would have been the first wedding among FDIL's siblings and they were planning to have a baby right away. FDIL wanted her grandfather to be able to hold his first great grandchild. Our whole family is crushed by this news. Also the family can't go to the hospital to be with him as he dies. Normally we would all get together to pray with the family, now maybe not even be able to have the rosary or funeral mass.



I am so sorry, what devastating news. I will be praying for comfort for your family. This separation during times of sickness is one of the hardest parts about this horrible disease. My nephew did not die from this but his memorial was to be today and we had to postpone it due to Covid. It is very hard not to have that closure.


----------



## Ridgetop

Thank you for your loving thoughts.  That is the hardest thing.  FDIL says Grandpa is sedated but regained consciousness and opened his eyes.  So sad that he does not have the comfort of his daughter (FDIL's mom) to hold his hand.  The nurses are wonderful but you ant your loved ones around you.  When my own relatives were dying in hospice, they took comfort in us being there with them to pray and hold their hands.  Knowing the ones you love are with you is very important to the dying.  The thought of having to die alone is devastating.  Even though you cannot go with them into the unknown your presence before they go can help.  Their calm passing is also helpful for those grieving to see.  My heart breaks for FDIL and her family.


----------



## Baymule

@farmerjan mentioned on her journal that Smithfield, a pork producer, has shut down. The workers were sick with Covid 19. There were articles on Yahoo News this morning about it, plus Cargil and Sanderson Farms and other meat packing companies that are having to cut back production because of not enough workers, who are sick. This would be a good time to add to your rabbits or chickens, or maybe get a feeder pig or two. Many of us have goats, sheep or cattle. Not all of us have room for bigger livestock, not all of us even want bigger livestock. It might be a good time to buy one ready to take to slaughter and fill the freezer. There are deals to be found on Craigslist, or at least right now there are. Once the meat counters are bare, the animals on Craigslist will be pure gold as people scramble to put food on the table.


----------



## Baymule

Because we need a laugh...….






​


----------



## babsbag

In my neck of the woods ranchers aren't taking their stock to auctions as the prices have dropped a lot and yet the meat packing plants are selling what they have for more...they are making the money so the ranchers are hanging on to the stock. I have a freezer full of beef from some we bought from a ranch last year but I could use some pork.  The place I have to raise a pig bothers me as it would be too easy for someone to rustle the pigs. Crazy that I have to worry about that.  I won't put the pig with the goats so that means no dogs with the pigs either.  I know someone that raises pigs so I might ask them what they have for sale.


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## Mike CHS

I ran into a completely unexpected side affect from the Covid-19 chaos going on.   For a lot of years, I start my base garden from the oldest Seed Vault that I buy from an online company that deals with that type of thing along with survival type foods and gear.  Even better than their variety and quality is their price for the volume of seeds you get.  The seeds are well sealed and packaged.  Anyway, I have my seeds started inside under lights and my routine is that once I do that, I get online and order another Seed Vault and will either plant or broadcast the seeds in the field.  

To my surprise, they were sold out and not taking any new orders.  Out of curiosity I looked at several other vendors that I have used and saw the same thing.  Either out of stock or not taking new orders but finally got on Baker Creed and they do have their seed vault available so I went ahead and ordered it.

Some of the major suppliers like Johnnys are only filling orders for farmers at this time.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Mike CHS said:


> I ran into a completely unexpected side affect from the Covid-19 chaos going on.   For a lot of years, I start my base garden from the oldest Seed Vault that I buy from an online company that deals with that type of thing along with survival type foods and gear.  Even better than their variety and quality is their price for the volume of seeds you get.  The seeds are well sealed and packaged.  Anyway, I have my seeds started inside under lights and my routine is that once I do that, I get online and order another Seed Vault and will either plant or broadcast the seeds in the field.
> 
> To my surprise, they were sold out and not taking any new orders.  Out of curiosity I looked at several other vendors that I have used and saw the same thing.  Either out of stock or not taking new orders but finally got on Baker Creed and they do have their seed vault available so I went ahead and ordered it.
> 
> Some of the major suppliers like Johnnys are only filling orders for farmers at this time.



Don't even think about buying  9mm, .223 or 5.56 mm ammo at a decent price.


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## Mike CHS

OneFineAcre said:


> Don't even think about buying  9mm, .223 or 5.56 mm ammo at a decent price.



I have enough ammo in all our calibers but I'm sure you're right.  A couple of years ago I ran across a killer buy on a case of .223 ammo at a gun show and picked it up.  Of course I then had to buy a .223 rifle since that was something I didn't have.


----------



## Xerocles

Mike CHS said:


> I have enough ammo in all our calibers but I'm sure you're right.  A couple of years ago I ran across a killer buy on a case of .223 ammo at a gun show and picked it up.  Of course I then had to buy a .223 rifle since that was something I didn't have.


I love it! Prime example of the tail wagging the dog.


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## OneFineAcre

Mike CHS said:


> I have enough ammo in all our calibers but I'm sure you're right.  A couple of years ago I ran across a killer buy on a case of .223 ammo at a gun show and picked it up.  Of course I then had to buy a .223 rifle since that was something I didn't have.



I've got over 4000 rounds of 9mm and considering the indoor range I go to is closed, I think I'm good too.


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## Xerocles

Mike CHS said:


> I have enough ammo in all our calibers but I'm sure you're right.  A couple of years ago I ran across a killer buy on a case of .223 ammo at a gun show and picked it up.  Of course I then had to buy a .223 rifle since that was something I didn't have.


I hope that rifle you bought was actually a 5.56 and not a .223?


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## Baymule

We spoke to a friend today, she works in hospital supply sales. She talks to hospitals all over the country. She definitely thinks this virus will be around for a long time and as states open up, we will be hit with another wave. Something to think about.

 This is a very good article on what it takes to get a vaccine to market.
​








						My father is a top virologist who believes the coronavirus vaccines won't be ready for distribution until 2021 — here's why
					

"SARS-CoV2 vaccines will not be realistically available for another 12-18 months. And even then, we must be lucky every step of the way."




					www.yahoo.com


----------



## rachels.haven

Oh @Baymule , you're sounding like my husband.

 Personally I think you, he, and your friend are/is right.


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## Baymule

In many areas, we have flattened the curve. Slowing down the cases does not mean that it is gone. As states open back up, the virus is going to come roaring back. I also think there will be an even greater run on food and essentials. Might be  good idea to haunt the grocery stores and get stocked up on the things you need. I am mostly there. Just need some damned toilet paper! What a bunch of butt wipes for taking it all!!


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## Mike CHS

We went through our garden seed today so we can share if it comes to that.


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## CntryBoy777

If your vegtables that ya grow aren't hybrids, ya can leave some on the vine or plant til it falls off on its own and then let them dry and store in a freezer in a ziplock bag...beans and peas will dry in the pod...my mom did it every year, she would only use heirloom varieties for that reason...as far as survival goes....make sure ya have a bb-pellet gun....great for small game, quiet, and ammo is available and cheap....I have over 6,000 rds and they were less than $20 for total amount....😁


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## Baymule

We had to go for feed today. My horse feed that I have used for 20 years, the closest source is 45 minutes away. We get their pig grower and game bird crumble for the CCX too. We stopped at Walmart in that town to see if there was toilet paper. Imagine my surprise when not only they had TP, but it was Charmin and no limit! It was the big packs of 30 mega rolls, 3 was all I could carry. Turns out, we only need one because our DD scored some for us yesterday. BUT--it's share the wealth, right? I texted a neighbor with 4 boys and asked if she wanted 2 packs and she was thrilled. So I did my good deed for the day.​


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## promiseacres

@Baymule glad you found some TP.  
I ran after some groceries today. Left my kids in the car with their tablets... DH's work is getting busy and he probably won't be home in time for me to get out of the house to get groceries as they close too early. Fortunate my kids are old enough to sit in the car but not home for an hour or so. I guess it works. The check out gal asked about them... I wanted to cry when I told her my 5 year old wanted to come in so bad.. It's exhausting to go out and see all the masks... or the groups of people/families... both ends of spectrum I guess.  
A good friend from church passed away last night, it wasn't "the virus" as my kids call it but a blood clot in her lung. So I guess crying at the grocery store may of not been out of order.


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## CntryBoy777

Well we are on the "flipside" of the coin...people are "standoffish" and have no sense of humor....not to mention calling 911 on others that are not staying 6' apart....I thought I escaped "monitors" when I left high school over 40yrs ago....there will never be a day the "monster" will get back in the box and can't wait for the next round of "excitement" that comes down the pipe, if this is the "new normal"....they are talking about having more shelters opened for storms coming....so they can maintain "social distancing"....sure babe!! Will just ride it out right here at home, come what may....


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## farmerjan

Seeing all the people with the masks just make me shake my head.   Since many do not even "seal off" around the sides of the face, I wonder about the actual percentage of the  protection.  Sorry, not my thing.  I believe that we will not see a vaccine for at least 12 months, then it will only be partially effective, and since I do not believe in the flu vaccine,  greatly doubt I will be convinced to get this one either.   After reading some about the shingles vaccine and the pneumonia vaccine, I know I will not be getting them.  Building up a strong immune system is more my style, and since I don't have any other health issues, except some weight, I am at less risk than some in my over 65 age group.

My life continues on as pretty much normal due to the animals needing feeding, and the dairies still needing testing.  Most on the farms have said that their basic routines have not changed much either.  Curtailment  of church has been the biggest thing.  A few missed meetings and seminars that many of us go to before we get busy with spring "stuff".

I did stop and got some seeds today although I am not sure if there is a garden spot in the plans..... with wanting to move I have no plans to have one here.  Could do a later garden if things work out at the house I am looking at.  Things like green beans and some squash and a few tomatoes.... would like to do potatoes.... but the next door neighbor to my son is putting in his big garden so I will take advantage of his constant, please come get stuff or it will go to waste.   The seeds will remain very viable for at least 2 years so I don't feel that it was wasted.  They were 25-50% off, too.


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## Mike CHS

I won't be getting either of those vaccines.  I still think that those shots had a lot to do with our friend who took his life last year.  He was fine and all of a sudden he was not and that was a couple of months after getting both.


----------



## farmerjan

Mike CHS said:


> I won't be getting either of those vaccines.  I still think that those shots had a lot to do with our friend who took his life last year.  He was fine and all of a sudden he was not and that was a couple of months after getting both.


Have to say, I agree @Mike CHS  as far as the vaccines being possible causes of other problems for people.   I am not totally anti-vaccine.... but we give too many, too close together, and don't try to get our bodies to build up immunities to things before we start giving all these shots.  There are some I agree with.... Got my tetanus booster last year.  IT IS A KILLED VIRUS VACCINE.....
Just like the animals.... I don't like modified Live.... only want to give killed virus vaccines.  Safer and it still helps to boost the immune system without actually putting any of the live virus into the body..... there are too many mutations and I don't trust them.


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## Simpleterrier

Yep my wife went out and bought some plants for the garden then stopped by a small grocery store and no kids were aloud she looked around and every car in the parking lot had kids in it so she put our kids back in the car and went shopping. Just like when I was a kid mom would leave us in the car. Funny thing is this time last year u would be in jail if u left your kid in the car.


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## Simpleterrier

My all time favorite is the Walker and joggers and runners who are by themselves going down the road that have mask on. Hahaha dumbies


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## Mike CHS

Just a quick note about Costco shipping.  We usually go once a month for a variety of things but we have ordered things from them a couple of times.  Their shipping is free for a minimum $75 purchase.  Be aware that there is a separate shipping charge on every item until you get to the $75 minimum.


----------



## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> I won't be getting either of those vaccines.  I still think that those shots had a lot to do with our friend who took his life last year.  He was fine and all of a sudden he was not and that was a couple of months after getting both.



Same thing happened to a buddy of mine who got the vaccine for shingles.   It ended his career as a hazmat driver due to increased anxiety, panic attacks and depression.   A less likely man for those kind of issues I've never known...this was a man with nerves of steel and absolutely no fear or drama, had been driving various trucks since he was 16 and had been working since he was 12.  A farmer, no nonsense and just a quiet, sturdy guy.....and this anxiety and depression was so bad he couldn't function at work, had to take early retirement and it was a good year and a half on anti-depressants before he felt like he wasn't so anxious he couldn't do what he's been doing most of his life.  He never went back to driving and now farms full time, but he's still not back to the guy I knew.  

All of that had a sudden onset directly after he had that vaccine.


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## Bunnylady

Simpleterrier said:


> My all time favorite is the Walker and joggers and runners who are by themselves going down the road that have mask on. Hahaha dumbies



Maybe not as dumb as you think. There are two reasons for wearing a mask; to protect yourself, and to protect other people in case you might be shedding virus (and there is plenty of evidence that a lot of seemingly healthy people are doing just that). If these people are exercising, they are breathing deeply, so they are exhaling a lot of potentially virus-laden moisture droplets everywhere they go. A mask that will allow enough air flow that they can wear it while exercising is not going to be much use at filtering out something as small as a virus on the way_ in_, but it will do a pretty fair job of catching the moisture droplets they exhale on the way_ out_. Even if they aren't breathing directly on someone, those droplets would otherwise have to land somewhere, and COVID 19 can even get picked up and tracked around on your shoes, y'know? So these masked fitness fans are doing their part to keep from creating an environmental hazard for their neighbors - even if it is a bit of a stretch.


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## farmerjan

I know someone who got the shingles vaccine 2 years in a row and got shingles both years.  Have heard too many horror stories about things like depression,  anxiety, like has been described here.
NOPE not taking shingles, not taking pneumonia, not taking flu vaccine.  Trying to keep my immune system built up. And if it is not a killed virus vaccine, not happening......


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## farmerjan

@Beekissed   please share the video by Dr Erickson that you put on SS..... to try to show some of these people that we need this exposure for healthy people to get the immune system to respond...... and no I am not wearing a mask if I am not sick as I need to be exposed to this corona virus to build up my immune system since I have a healthy immune system on a daily basis.  I get it for those that have compromised systems..... 
We have dealt with corona viruses in cattle, yes you can get sick, but for every variant you are exposed to, it helps your system to have immunities to other variants of it.


----------



## Beekissed

I think it's a huge stretch.   Outdoors the air is removing droplets that are exhaled from the immediate vicinity and dispersing them widely....they don't remain in a puff of cloud and travel around in a cloud to land on surfaces and people.    The possibility that a microscopic droplet of water is going to land on another person, your shoes, etc. is so incredibly low as to be almost nonexistent.....conditions and proximity would have to be exactly right for this to happen.   

There is simply no environmental hazard to be found unless these fitness buffs are gasping for air 2 ft from one another, which isn't happening.   Even then the likelihood that someone with an active Corona infection is out there jogging is nil and the whole "carrier" thing is nonsense....either you are actively infectious with symptoms to show that~light or not~ or you have formed antibodies for it and are not actively infectious.  

All in all, the chance of infection under those circumstances~outside exercising and not in close proximity with other people doing the same~is highly unlikely.....highly.   So, it's a huge stretch to imagine these measures are necessary.


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## frustratedearthmother

Beekissed said:


> .either you are actively infectious with symptoms to show that~light or not~ or you have formed antibodies for it and are not actively infectious.


People who are not actively infectious YET can certainly shed virus to others.









						Frequently Asked Questions about COVID-19
					

Responses to frequently asked questions about COVID-19




					www.nfid.org
				




*Are people contagious before they develop symptoms?*

There is evidence that the novel coronavirus can be spread before an individual develops symptoms. This poses a problem because people who do not know they are infected may continue to go to work, school, and other public places. People who are sick and have symptoms are more likely to stay home, which means fewer opportunities for the virus to spread from one person to another. When asymptomatic transmission occurs, infection control experts and public health officials may need to take additional measures, such as social distancing, isolating patients, or using quarantines.

Same as it happens in the common cold, the regular flu and even HIV...it happens.


----------



## Bunnylady

Beekissed said:


> the whole "carrier" thing is nonsense



According to whose set of data? The CDC and the WHO even have 3 classifications of carriers: the "pre-symptomatic" carrier who has been infected, and hasn't developed symptoms yet; the "post-symptomatic" carrier who no longer has symptoms, but is still shedding virus (which is why a lot of places want 2 negative tests after recovery before they will allow the patient to go back to work); and the truly "asymptomatic" carrier, who sheds virus but never does develop symptoms. When wide-scale testing is done, there inevitably are positives that have no symptoms; when antibody tests are done, there are also a significant number who have antibodies but have no recollection of having experienced symptoms. If the asymptomatic carrier is a fallacy, why do all of the medical professionals that weigh in on the subject believe in it?


----------



## Beekissed

Bunnylady said:


> According to whose set of data? The CDC and the WHO even have 3 classifications of carriers: the "pre-symptomatic" carrier who has been infected, and hasn't developed symptoms yet; the "post-symptomatic" carrier who no longer has symptoms, but is still shedding virus (which is why a lot of places want 2 negative tests after recovery before they will allow the patient to go back to work); and the truly "asymptomatic" carrier, who sheds virus but never does develop symptoms. When wide-scale testing is done, there inevitably are positives that have no symptoms; when antibody tests are done, there are also a significant number who have antibodies but have no recollection of having experienced symptoms. If the asymptomatic carrier is a fallacy, why do all of the medical professionals that weigh in on the subject believe in it?



It's an agenda.  If a person could carry an active cold type virus that long, although being asymptomatic or post symptomatic, then there wouldn't be a person alive on this planet.   A virus runs its course in any particular body/immune system and then it's gone.  One doesn't keep infecting those around them for the rest of their lives with that particular virus unless it's a particular kind of virus that can be passed through blood or body fluids, such as various types of hepatitis, HIV, etc.  

If it were truth that we could just carry around all our cold viruses long past the time we were infectious, we'd never be considered infectious vs. noninfectious.....everyone would just be a walking, shedding viral stewpot and everyone would be constantly passing around viruses until we were all dead.  

They know that most people have very little knowledge of how disease transmission works in the body, so they can pretty much say anything and most of the populace believes it because it comes from "experts".   Tell a lie big enough and long enough and everyone will believe it.  

And ALL the medical professionals don't believe in it....only those coached to confirm such nonsense.   Many, many medical professionals are speaking out about all this nonsense but no one wants to listen.  They'd rather believe all the false drama.


----------



## Beekissed

Here's a great little vid folks should take the time to watch....real doctors talking about real data.


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## Bunnylady

I've watched it, and he believes in the asymptomatic carrier.


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## Mike CHS

@Beekissed that is similar to a couple of other talks that I have seen.  I have felt that way all along but I quit listening to the fear mongers on the networks.


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## farmerjan

Which will allow for more of the "herd" immunity.  There is always an asymptomatic carrier in the mix.  You are not going to totally eradicate these viruses or you would never have any other flu viruses to mutate from year to year.   People that fall in the general group of being high risk do need quarantine.... healthy people do not or they will eventually fall into higher risk because they will have less ability to develop their own immune system.  This thing was very fast moving and virulent, but if we had had a decent HONEST warning, we would not be where we were when it got started here. 
There are asymptomatic carriers of the "regular flu",  of normal "colds" and other things.  

I for one am willing to stop the lockdowns now and to try to get back to some sort of a semblance of  a normal life.  If you are still of the high risk group, stay home and stay in.  But you are also risking some of your own hard won individual immunity to any challenges that you face.  There will never be a 100% guaranteed cure to this.  It is a virus that will mutate and change.  There will eventually be a vaccine and it will take care of this variety;  as the flu vaccine takes care of a couple of the most prevalent strains.... but it will never be 100% effective to every variety that will mutate year to year.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

This how thing never made since from a the time they told the healthy to stay home. Our bodies need germs to stay healthy we covered in them. I am not for shut done at all. Yes, if your high rush by all means if you feel you need to stay home by all means if your sick stay home. That being said anyone can be a carrier so it of germ x z or z and could hurt person g who has a compromised immunity by not knowing they are sick. I have four kids, one we don't vaccinate one because of how our bodies function vaccine don't work forever. Two times to were the germs we (majority) vaccinate for or cause by sanitation, cooking and food storage along with the enviroment around us so if we taken care of the majority of causes of certian illness the likely hood we would catch said illness then that reason goes out the window. Second in order for your body to respond(basied off of medical journals i read over the years) to said virus it has to come in contact with it, the way a dead vaccine works it takes the skeltion if you will of the virus and adds heavy metals such as aluminium (which we don't even want in our water at the same level much less directly into our blood stream) for your body to respond to it so it aknowledges that something is out of place and goes to work and 10% (is 20% for some vaccinations) of the population does not respond to. So baised off that knowledge in order for our bodies to fight this virus we have to come in contact with it. Just like with any other thing. Two speaking as a mother of four until symptoms show with anything such as stomach bug you don't know your sick so the fear of this has be insane to me. Now baised off what we seeing with the real numbers the thought that a large part of the popluation is going to die its just not there. Also the majority of people who get said virus stay home and don't know they have it, and if they got tested its only a fraction of that needs to be hospitalized and even a fraction of that, that die from something else because their already sickly bodies can't take it sad as that is its just that. I am not saying people shouldn't be aware or we shouldn't aknowledge the virus as something new but that fact is if the economy (one of our bigger concerns) does not open back up the amount of deaths and abuse and poverty as a result and the things that also go along with that addiction, depression suicide ect. The list goes on will be greater then the fear of covid-19. I know alot of family members who have compromised immune systems, both my parents, their parents, my mother in law, my husband grandparents, my nephew, another nephew,  my youngest who 4 months, these people have to be more aware and careful but bubble living is unhealthy and will cause more issues. My youngest goes to church with us, she goes to stores, parks everywhere i don't live in fear that something will happen that i have no control over. Then same can be said for some one who doesnt know they have cancer that walks into the front lines of a war what happen which is the cause maybe they die from the cancer maybe they die from the war maybe they will die on the way home or in their beds asleep at 102 years old. We aren't promised the days minutes or second we get to live. At what point should we stop living ask a cancer patient(atleast the ones i know) say let's open up life needs to go on. We need to live the bird and the gold cage dies just like the bird in the wild the difference is the quality of life they lived. I don't want to see people die (my biblical view point) but we live in a fallen world and the time is short for everyone we will all die its just a matter of when it's our turn. I want to take my kids the church i want to talk to the cashier that had a hard day to shed then light i can to brighten it i want to shake hands or hug the police officer who responds at 2am to a domestic dispute the same man or woman who respond to a call that a child makes by accident just because that's their calling and that line that job is one of the hardest they need that moment of encouragement same for the military the list goes on we all need each other this alone your one your own kind of life style that being forced is not health for anyone its make this world that much darker and that much more harmful. We all need that hope the light (Jesus) we need to share our gifts with each other and not have the fear of losing keep us from playing.   Okay long winded and that it for me for now.


----------



## Beekissed

Here's a cool way to install 5G at schools....send everyone home from school due to a "deadly" virus~and ban the public from being out and about outdoors~ and you can pretty much do whatever you want at the schools.


----------



## Bunnylady




----------



## OneFineAcre

There is no data at this point to support a continued "lock down"  We have data now.  We need to look at that and stop being guided by "models" that have proven themselves to be wrong.









						The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation
					

Americans are now desperate for sensible policymakers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts.




					thehill.com


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Beekissed said:


> Here's a cool way to install 5G at schools....send everyone home from school due to a "deadly" virus~and ban the public from being out and about outdoors~ and you can pretty much do whatever you want at the schools.


Soooo, the theory is that they've shut down practically the whole world to put 5G in the schools?


----------



## thistlebloom

frustratedearthmother said:


> Soooo, the theory is that they've shut down practically the whole world to put 5G in the schools?



I think the theory is "never waste a good "crisis"".


----------



## Beekissed

Yep...if only that were the only reason they shut down the whole world...but it isn't.   It's one of the reasons, but the others are just as sinister and long reaching for mankind.   It's a web of deceit so interwoven that it's hard to pull on one strand and not twang against another.  

What it comes down to is that folks who stand back and view the big picture can see the web, those who are involved in their small view world can't even see the individual strands until they are caught in them and fully trapped.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Sorry - not buying the conspiracy theories.  I guess a lot of us have different ways of looking at things.  Yep - in my small view world I'm quite happy.  I don't go looking for trouble.  If it happens I'll deal with it the best way I know how. 

I can't see the 'whole world' agreeing to shut down their countries so they can launch all these sinister plans.   The whole world hasn't agreed on anything for a very long time, lol.

The sky might actually be falling but I'm going to wait until it hits me in the head before I panic.  Who knows, maybe there's a giant spider out there in that theoretical web just waiting to trap me.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

frustratedearthmother said:


> Sorry - not buying the conspiracy theories.  I guess a lot of us have different ways of looking at things.  Yep - in my small view world I'm quite happy.  I don't go looking for trouble.  If it happens I'll deal with it the best way I know how.
> 
> I can't see the 'whole world' agreeing to shut down their countries so they can launch all these sinister plans.   The whole world hasn't agreed on anything for a very long time, lol.
> 
> The sky might actually be falling but I'm going to wait until it hits me in the head before I panic.  Who knows, maybe there's a giant spider out there in that theoretical web just waiting to trap me.


FEM you are a breath of fresh air


----------



## OneFineAcre

frustratedearthmother said:


> Sorry - not buying the conspiracy theories.  I guess a lot of us have different ways of looking at things.  Yep - in my small view world I'm quite happy.  I don't go looking for trouble.  If it happens I'll deal with it the best way I know how.
> 
> I can't see the 'whole world' agreeing to shut down their countries so they can launch all these sinister plans.   The whole world hasn't agreed on anything for a very long time, lol.
> 
> The sky might actually be falling but I'm going to wait until it hits me in the head before I panic.  Who knows, maybe there's a giant spider out there in that theoretical web just waiting to trap me.



I'm with you.
I never got fitted for the tin foil hat.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

OneFineAcre said:


> I'm with you.
> I never got fitted for the tin foil hat.
> 
> View attachment 72976


----------



## OneFineAcre

B&B Happy goats said:


>


----------



## thistlebloom

I do wonder about the insecurities of those that resort to demeaning ridicule in a discussion.


----------



## Beekissed

What nice folks we have on this forum.....always a joy to be mocked and ridiculed.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> I do wonder about the insecurities of those that resort to demeaning ridicule in a discussion.



Agreed.   It seems to be pretty universal, though.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Beats negative conspiracy  theories,    ..particularly  when the original  poster said "please no religious  or conspiracy  crap "....when she started this thread....


----------



## thistlebloom

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on what world leaders are strategizing. And there is no foil hat to be found anywhere in my belongings. But I do have some common sense. And when things aren't adding up I have to wonder why.

Yep, some things are not sunshine and butterflies. Ignoring them doesn't make them not exist.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I don't spend a lot of time dwelling on what world leaders are strategizing. And there is no foil hat to be found anywhere in my belongings. But I do have some common sense. And when things aren't adding up I have to wonder why.
> 
> Yep, some things are not sunshine and butterflies. Ignoring them doesn't make them not exist.



Neither am I a conspiracy theorist, nor do I hold any fear about events around the world or this so called pandemic.   But, I am aware of what is going on around me, which as you correctly name it is just common sense.   

But making fun of people never beats any other choice to be had.   If bullying seems the most enlightened and joyful choice, it is much pity I feel for those who engage in it.  So many other ways to experience joy that is not at the expense of others.


----------



## thistlebloom

B&B Happy goats said:


> Beats negative conspiracy  theories,    ..particularly when the original poster said "*please no religious  or conspiracy  crap "....when she started this thread....*








Would this fall under that heading Barb?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

When one posts about people who have "small views" is that not making fun of people?  If you want to accuse one person you have to look at all.

I don't believe that meme is directed at any one person.   You know - we have to be able to laugh.  There is enough negativity and fear in the world right now.  Let's just accept that we have differences and move on.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

thistlebloom said:


> View attachment 72982
> 
> Would this fall under that heading Barb?


I took that posting as humor...as I believe it was intended to be


----------



## thistlebloom

B&B Happy goats said:


> I took that posting as humor...as I believe it was intended to be



Sure, I knew it was intended as humor also. But you are also surely aware of how demeaning it was and who it was intended for.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

thistlebloom said:


> Sure, I knew it was intended as humor also. But you are also surely aware of how demeaning it was and who it was intended for.


Honestly..  ..I just saw it as a refreshing break in a open conversation. I don't  think the poster directed at anyone in particular.....


----------



## frustratedearthmother

@OneFineAcre - sorry you got caught up in a tornado for nothing more than posting a funny meme!


----------



## thistlebloom

frustratedearthmother said:


> @OneFineAcre - sorry you got caught up in a tornado for nothing more than posting a funny meme!



Tornado? I thought it was a give and take discussion. Moving on as you suggested.


----------



## OneFineAcre

WOW. 

I was absolutely just kidding.  

I apologize to all of the offended parties.  

I guess I forgot how easily people get offended in this country these days.


----------



## thistlebloom

OneFineAcre said:


> WOW.
> 
> I was absolutely just kidding.
> 
> I apologize to all of the offended parties.
> 
> I guess I forgot how easily people get offended in this country these days.



You know if that had been a meme targeting women or racial minorities it wouldn't be tolerated for an instant. But mocking God doesn't even make people blush anymore. 
I'm not offended. Just calling a spade a spade.


----------



## thistlebloom

OneFineAcre said:


> I guess I forgot how easily people get offended in this country these days.



An apology with a barb. That, sir or ma'am, is disingenuous.


----------



## Baymule

Ok, everybody go to their corner and come out fighting! Er, no, come out, meet in the middle, agree to disagree and move on. 

Back to our regularly scheduled program...…...Our neighbors came and picked up their toilet paper we got on Tuesday, they were thrilled that it was Charmin and not some off brand crap…..get it? Crap? LOL They said they were going to put the cheapo TP in the boys bathroom (they have 4) and hide the good stuff in their bathroom. Life's simple pleasures.


----------



## promiseacres

we all are getting grumpy. Love you guys.


----------



## Bunnylady

The human mind is a pattern-recognition machine. We are hardwired to look for patterns and make connections, to the point that we may see them when they aren't actually there (think, gamblers and their "lucky" whatevers). At the most extreme, it can become compulsive behavior. We also tend to find what we look for, which is why the acid test of science is the double-blind study - if neither the test subjects nor those administering the test know  what's going on, they (hopefully) won't be able to let their own biases influence the outcome.

I found the second guy on that video's "analysis" of his interaction with the cop absolutely hysterical. Where he saw _*deception, *_I saw mere annoyance - "oh, for cryin' out loud. You stop to stretch your legs, have a private conversation with a coworker, and here comes some nut job, trying to stir up trouble." I mean, c'mon - these guys are LEO's; assuming they have the skills to install anything more complex than an app on their phones is an enormous logic leap, and how they are supposed to be doing it from the middle of the parking lot is beyond me. Absolutely, if I were trying to do something sneaky, I would_ totally_ put on a distinctive uniform, and stand around in broad daylight in a very open, public place with highly conspicuous vehicles to do it. The cop noting his license number wasn't "revenge," it was an officer performing his duty - this guy went out of his way to provoke a confrontation with a uniformed police officer (and record it - the video quality looks too good to be a hidden camera, so the cop must have seen it); it's going to have to be logged. If they can identify him, they can determine if this is a pattern with him; if there is further trouble (like, vandalism/breaking and entering) at that site, he might have just made himself a good person to look at as a suspect.

Like I said, you see what you look for.

Mentioning looking for things, I am beginning to see paper towels and toilet paper showing up in stores. There was a whole pallet of TP at the ALDI yesterday - the shock wave of which was so great, it knocked a whole flat of Portabella mushrooms right off the display to land practically at my feet. If they were trying to jump into my shopping basket, they missed (not that I could use that many, no matter _how_ fresh they were)!


----------



## Mini Horses

In MY world, right here on my farm.....not much has changed!  

Yep, goats still breaking out to eat the same grass on other side.  Everyone wants to be fed any time they see me -- no matter it was just done -- hens are laying and some going broody.   Does need to be milked and I am STILL going to work.  Still waiting for Uncle to give me that stimulus  $$$ -- would love some stimulation     Several egg customers are in lockdown & not buying so, I'm gifting a lot of eggs to others.  I have butcher chickens waiting for their last meal on my schedule.

Honestly, it's mostly "life as normal" in my world.  

OK -- the TV has little more than CV-19 reports & weather.  I'm watching the OLD movies & series channels when I get time for TV.


Many are not so fortunate.   For that, I am sorry.   Yes, I know this is a serious world-wide problem.   The powers that be have not asked for my opinion.   Sometimes, I don't use theirs.  It's my way and my life.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I came across a fascinating article.  Let me preface this by saying it is not intended to be accusatory or aimed at anyone.  I simply found it interesting.









						Why Do People Believe in Conspiracy Theories?
					

The need to find order in a confusing world.




					www.psychologytoday.com


----------



## OneFineAcre

thistlebloom said:


> An apology with a barb. That, sir or ma'am, is disingenuous.



You know what ? You're right.  I didn't mean it at all.  Because I didn't owe anyone an apology.  

Edited to add:
It's sir.


----------



## OneFineAcre

thistlebloom said:


> You know if that had been a meme targeting women or racial minorities it wouldn't be tolerated for an instant. But mocking God doesn't even make people blush anymore.
> I'm not offended. Just calling a spade a spade.



The meme wasn't mocking god.  The joke was that he said he only believed in 2 things, but listed 3.
I guess you didn't get it.  I apologized and instead of just letting it go, you had to find something wrong with the apology.  So, at this point I could care less if you are offended or not.  You can call it a spade or anything you want.


----------



## Baymule

We have a neighbor that this article fits to a T. He gets in chat rooms or far out there sites and eats it up like candy. He came over to tell us that a volunteer in the CIA was purposely infected with Covid 19 and flew to Wuhan and walked around in the markets, infecting people and that's the Gospel truth. I told him that I didn't believe that one bit. He insisted and I just let it go. Let's see...… he claimed Michelle Obama was a man and the Obama's two girls were adopted. I told him that was false. He gets annoyed when we don't believe his fantastic tales. 

I do believe that there is more going on that the American people are told and that opinion applies to pretty much everything that comes from the gooberment, no matter which side it spews forth from. 

Lets not get upset with each other because we have differing opinions or beliefs. If we were all the same, it sure would be boring.


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> He came over to tell us that a volunteer in the CIA was purposely infected with Covid 19 and flew to Wuhan



Interesting - I understand the Chinese were spreading this rumor around just before it became obvious that the pandemic had well and truly escaped their borders. Ironic that there is also a "counter-rumor" that this was a Chinese bioweapon that escaped, isn't it?


If the news isn't full enough of pandemic news to suit you, Netflix has a couple of series that might inform or depress, depending on your current mental state. One, called Pandemic, is a 6-part series that they clearly started  working on quite some time ago. I've only watched the first episode; I found it interesting, but needed something a lot lighter afterward so I found something else to watch and haven't been back to catch the others. The second is a series they just started, called Coronavirus, Explained. So far, it's one episode. It does go into some of the background, covers stuff about viruses in general, gives something of a timeline of the early stages of this particular pandemic. I suspect that, when all is said and done, there may be quite a bit of overlap between the two series. I noticed that the Coronavirus, Explained episode ended on a pointedly positive, upbeat note. Like anything that gets put together quickly, it may not be totally accurate, but time will tell.


----------



## Baymule

Wow..... sitting at home because of Coronavirus, watching a documentary about Coronavirus. You do realize that is just messed up, right?


----------



## farmerjan

OneFineAcre said:


> The meme wasn't mocking god.  The joke was that he said he only believed in 2 things, but listed 3.
> I guess you didn't get it.  I apologized and instead of just letting it go, you had to find something wrong with the apology.  So, at this point I could care less if you are offended or not.  You can call it a spade or anything you want.


That was the first thing that I thought..... he said he believed in 2 things and listed 3.....


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> Wow..... sitting at home because of Coronavirus, watching a documentary about Coronavirus. You do realize that is just messed up, right?



Y'know what they say - "know your enemy." 

But watching this did help to clear up a couple of things for me. For example, you know how they keep saying that they can't be sure that catching Coronavirus will make you immune? Somehow, people seem to have the idea that once you get a disease, your immune system will forever after protect you from it. Apparently, that's not always the case - in several other members of the coronavirus family, catching them only creates immunity that lasts for a couple of years. So, even if you run into that _identical_ virus a few years later, you could conceivably get it again. With this one, it's just too new to know how the body responds to it long-term.


----------



## farmerjan

Bunnylady said:


> Y'know what they say - "know your enemy."
> 
> But watching this did help to clear up a couple of things for me. For example, you know how they keep saying that they can't be sure that catching Coronavirus will make you immune? Somehow, people seem to have the idea that once you get a disease, your immune system will forever after protect you from it. Apparently, that's not always the case - in several other members of the coronavirus family, catching them only creates immunity that lasts for a couple of years. So, even if you run into that _identical_ virus a few years later, you could conceivably get it again. With this one, it's just too new to know how the body responds to it long-term.



You don't get a guaranteed lifetime immunity to tetanus either..... and I know people who have had german measles vacc that have gotten it again.... and the shingles vaccine is a form of  "herpes virus" which also is related to chicken pox......and you get the flu vaccine and it might mutate for a few years, but then it comes back exactly like it was and they still get it again.  For pete's sake, you are never going to get a 100% response for the rest of your life to anything..... a few years would be one HE// of an improvement over nothing.

One reason I would not take the shingles vaccine is that I know a couple people who have had it, yearly and have gotten shingles everytime.  I have  been exposed to the cow pox at different times..... some immunity created..... milkmaids back in the dark ages wound up having next to no symptoms from  smallpox back then because of exposure to cow pox.  Another variant is chicken pox..... these are all related.  They say if you had chicken pox you are likely to get shingles..... yet I haven't seen any conclusive studies on that.  I had the standard chicken pox, as a kid. I have been exposed to cows that have had the "cow pox" sores,  I am not getting the shingles vaccine.


----------



## mystang89

Haven't watched this thread in a while but kinda curious if anyone's opinion changed after not being allowed to celebrate Easter (for those who celebrate it) and the new "Do Not Resuscitate" order that some states have mandated along with the plethora of doctors, especially those from places like California who have come out saying that what the government is saying just isn't adding up to what they are seeing on the ground.


----------



## Bunnylady

What I've heard about Chicken Pox, is that it is a virus that never completely clears your system. Once it gets into your body, it sort of buries itself in nerve tissue. The rash, etc, goes away, but a little bit of the virus lies dormant within you. As long as your immune system is doing a good job, "dormant" is how it remains, but if something occurs that reduces your immune function, it can break out, and the result is shingles. Older people are notoriously immunologically challenged, which is why most associate shingles with the elderly, but I have heard of people  in their 30's who had outbreaks after some severe stress. The shingles vaccine is _intended_ to remind your body "this is the enemy, keep it hemmed in," but since the virus is living within you already (using "living" in a figurative sense), sometimes, it backfires (fairly frequently, apparently!).

(Incidentally, though the relatedness of cowpox and smallpox is, like, everywhere you look, I can't find anything that even suggests there is any relationship between cowpox and chickenpox -quite the opposite, in fact)

I'd always been told that you couldn't catch the same cold twice, maybe that's a folk tale. But exposure to some diseases (or the vaccines for them) usually do grant long-term resistance/immunity - Rubella (German Measles) being one. Frequent moves when I was a child resulted in my health records getting a bit confused, and we weren't sure whether I'd been immunized for German Measles, or maybe even had the disease. Since that virus can have serious consequences for the fetus if a pregnant woman gets it, by the time I was in my 30's and thinking about having kids, it became kind of important to know if I was at risk - so my doctor ran a titer test. No problem there; I had antibodies a-plenty. Whether I'd had the vaccine or the disease, my body remembered it well enough for me to be protected, 20+ years later.

In _Pandemic_, they were looking mostly at flu, and referenced H1N1 in particular. A comment is made that people over 50 tend to have some resistance to it, apparently through having been exposed to some (probably weaker) variant during their lifetimes, though people who are 40 years of age or less aren't so blessed. One of those odd situations where being older may actually make you_ less_ at risk with a serious illness.



mystang89 said:


> Haven't watched this thread in a while but kinda curious if anyone's opinion changed after not being allowed to celebrate Easter (for those who celebrate it) and the new "Do Not Resuscitate" order that some states have mandated along with the plethora of doctors, especially those from places like California who have come out saying that what the government is saying just isn't adding up to what they are seeing on the ground.



My_ opinion _hasn't changed, and it's pretty well summed up by an interaction I had with the produce manager at a grocery store near me. I've known this man for about a decade; I've no doubt he recognized me even in the mask I was wearing at the time. I wanted to get some mushrooms, and he was busy stocking the cooler the mushrooms are in. I stood back a respectful 6 feet or so, and patiently waited while he worked. When he realized why I was there, he stepped back several feet, and I moved in and picked a package of mushrooms. As I backed away, I commented, "it all  feels a bit silly, doesn't it?" He shrugged and said, "that's the way the game is played." I said, "Yep. We play the game, and hope it actually makes a difference."


----------



## Baymule

The news is finally admitting that there may be a meat shortage if the processing plants don’t open back up. What they are not saying is what @farmerjan posted about is animals with nowhere to go, being killed and buried. It will take even longer than the newscasts predictions to get the meat supply running smoothly again. I don’t think they realize or know the ugly side of this. The industrial farms can’t go from dead pigs, killed newborn litters, to finished pig ready for slaughter in a week.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

@Bunnylady , I have to agree that you are spot on about chicken pox and shingles...I have been having bouts of shingles outbreaks since I was 19 (49 years), thankfully  it stays contained to a small area on top of the nerves but when they happen it's  pretty nasty for a few weeks.. A Dr. had suggested I get the shingles  vaccine,  went to the pharmacy and learned that not only was the cost ridiculous  ($350) but it would most likely  make my outbreaks worse......
I have since changed Drs., and I don't  do vaccines  other than tetanus,  twice got the flu shot and within two weeks got the flu, lol


----------



## rachels.haven

Ugh, I hate shingles. My father had cancer and chemo...cue shingles at 50 something. And he can't be vaccinated due to the chemo, so he WILL get it again and again forever from what I understand and it is very painful. I hate shingles.


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> The news is finally admitting that there may be a meat shortage if the processing plants don’t open back up. What they are not saying is what @farmerjan posted about is animals with nowhere to go, being killed and buried. It will take even longer than the newscasts predictions to get the meat supply running smoothly again. I don’t think they realize or know the ugly side of this. The industrial farms can’t go from dead pigs, killed newborn litters, to finished pig ready for slaughter in a week.



I saw a news story a few days ago about a chicken farmer that may have already been put out of business. He has a contract with a company that produces eggs; the eggs from his farm went to a plant that turned them into liquid eggs that were then sold to cafeterias and other places like that. With schools, etc, closed, the demand for that product has plummeted. Though the demand for eggs in the grocery stores is higher than ever, it's easier for the company to just shut down this whole production system rather than try to re-route the eggs into little Styrofoam cartons, so they sent a clean-out crew to his farm and killed all of the birds. Even if the company eventually reopens the plant, it will be many months before they could be sending him POL birds to put in his houses; time during which he will have to find some other source of income.


----------



## mystang89

Bunnylady said:


> but I have heard of people in their 30's who had outbreaks after some severe stress. The shingles vaccine is _intended_ to remind your body "this is the enemy, keep it hemmed in," but since the virus is living within you already (using "living" in a figurative sense), sometimes, it backfires (fairly frequently, apparently!).


Guess I'm one of those backfires and probably one of the reasons I don't buy into the vaccines as much. I'm 36. According to my immunization records I've been given the chickenpox vaccine. Some years afterwards i contracted chicken pox. Now at 36 I occasionally have bouts of shingles. Kinda like @Bunnylady said, during particularly stressful periods of life and they are relegated to small local areas.


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> a volunteer in the CIA was purposely infected with Covid 19 and flew to Wuhan




I just saw a news story about a criminally irresponsible YouTuber having put a name and a face to this story, but the person he names says she has never, ever even tested positive for Coronavirus. Evidently, there is a vague similarity in that she has an association with the military (she's in the Army Reserves) and was actually in China in October, but that's where it ends.


----------



## rachels.haven

My parents in-law lost the lady they were guardian for yesterday as the virus went through her nursing home. They will be going to her funeral, but only 8 other people will be allowed. Hopefully they will stay well. They already visited her as she died. Not a striking example of biosecurity, but a few months ago it would be normal.


----------



## Mini Horses

Goodwill, habitat, DAV...stores all closed.  No where to donate things.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Mini Horses said:


> Goodwill, habitat, DAV...stores all closed.  No where to donate things.


No drop off box's ?


----------



## Mini Horses

Removed.   Until --


----------



## promiseacres

How is it affecting me? I'm going crazy feeling like the kids and I are on house arrest and tired of no one knowing nothing about the virus at 6 weeks out when we were told 2 weeks would flatten the curve.  Besides the fact that it's another virus, virus are everywhere and we need to be getting some immunity built. 
On the other hand my husband ( a tractor mechanic) so still working is worried that if things open to quickly that everyone we know over 65 will die.  His grandparents were put in a nursing home 10 days prior to the lockdown... found out that several nurses that work there have been recently tested positive. If they weren't safe with there major lockdown, no visitors, no one allowed to leave, I don't see how continuing a state wide lock down will help anyone at this point. So yep things are a bit tense around here.   we do agree that a big garden is a good thing and looking at getting a pig to be raised for butchering. ( a friend will raise it, since we don't really have a set up at this time)


----------



## Baymule

There was an article on Yahoo this morning about killing pigs, meat chickens, cattle and layer hens because of no processing facilities. It was pretty grim. My laptop is on the glitch and had to turn it off. I was going to copy and paste it to this thread, but when I turned my laptop back on, I couldn’t find the article. I guess Yahoo considered it too graphic and disturbing for the public. The article finally said there will be meat shortages in the USA and Canada too. The CEO of Tyson said the food supply is broken. Yeah, we already know, woe to the average consumer.


----------



## promiseacres

A Tyson plant about 35 minutes from us closed a few days ago, they are being blamed for hundreds of cases. Honestly it wasn't that they were open or not taking precautions to get us meat. But their many of their workers are of a particular ethnic group that lives in family groups and haven't been abiding from the government mandates of small groups of only your household.  I understand family is important but you really shouldn't be taking the entire family to walmart then over to your extended family for a get together on a weekly basis.  But Tyson is at fault....  pigs are already be turned away from processors because they don't have the staff to get them butchered. Farmers are trying to get $ so they can just euthanize them...


----------



## Baymule

Texas is opening back up, cases are still climbing in east Texas. Already we see people without masks, acting like there isn’t a nasty virus out there. There is a Tyson chicken processing plant in Center, Texas about 1 1/2 hours from us that is opening back up next week.


----------



## Bunnylady

Hmmmm. I have one of those 4-foot-deep "inflatable" pools in the back yard; for years, it has had water hyacinths in it and it has been raising tree frogs by the skazillions. Do you reckon I could use it as a fish farm?




The "redneck pond," post-Florence.


----------



## Baymule

If it was full of duck weed, tilapia would eat it and thrive.


----------



## Sheepshape

That pond's a tad overgrown, Bunnylady. (I am too ashamed to take a pic of mine as it is almost solid with bullrushes and Canadian pond weed.....but that's not really a new problem).However the moorhens, coots and Canada geese love it and are using it as a breeding 'ground'.

As regards coronavirus, things still don't look too healthy over here. Most shops still all shut. Social distancing everywhere (I'm fine with it, think it's a good thing). Life at home has been very little different as we've been lambing and are always on 'self isolation' at this time.News of permanent closures of several large and small retail outlets and no sign of the end in sight.

Daughter due to get married in August, but not at all confident that will go ahead. 

Strange, strange times.

There's a lot of good examples of people helping total strangers and community schemes being set up to help the isolated....so the crisis has had a positive effect on how folk interact. However, many, many sad stories in the news of people of all ages dying of/with coronavirus. 

A once-in-a-lifetime experience we all hope.


----------



## drstratton

@Baymule and many others in this thread already know most of my story, but I'll share it here!  My husband and I bought our 5 acres of land 30 years ago! We had purchased a starter home and renovated it 5 years prior, it was our stepping stone to where we live now!  Anyway, we live in a land of sand, sagebrush, rocks and weeds, but the climate is quite moderate, so it is easy to throw water on something and get it to grow! We cleared about 2.5 acres of sagebrush, mostly with shovels, we didn't have a 4x4 at that time and our vehicles would have gotten stuck in the sand! We did everything ourselves, I have pictures and a toolbelt to prove it...lol! We've been married 35 years, raised 3 children, dogs, cats & chickens and we have done too many projects together to count!
How has Covid affected us...my husband will be retiring sometime in June/July, it was supposed to happen the end of May, then Covid!  We were planning on not only his retirement from working a daily job, but to also retire from homesteading. We planned on spending most of the summers here at our home and doing some travel in the winter months.   When the pandemic started to rear its ugly head we had to reassess our priorities and the direction we were heading! We decided that we needed to find and establish a steady supply of food, for ourselves and to help our children and their families, should the need arise! We will be planting a larger garden than normal, Dale always plants a large one! We now have 3 rabbits and 20 chickens and 4 piglets, two of those are being raised for a friend and his family, we will also be purchasing a 1/2 beef from a good friend!  We had an existing coop & enclosed pen for the chickens, but the coop was built with Banty's in mind, so we moved the nesting boxes onto the outside of the coop and we are currently fencing in an area of 110'x48' so the chickens can free range in safety.  We also had a double rabbit hutch that my husband built for our children's pet rabbits over 20 years ago. So we needed to build another hutch to accommodate our new breeding stock! We also built a rabbit tractor.  How has Covid changed our lives, it changed our direction along with many unplanned new projects! Not where we wanted or planned to be, but we are thankful that God has given us the ability and the resources to adapt to a more self sustained life and I have found how to enjoy the journey, but I have to be honest, it's been bumpy and I have broken down in tears more than once, not just for myself, but for my family and for our country and those hurting around the world!
It is time to restart our economy, it should not have been shut down this long, I believe that we need to develop herd immunity in our country to this disease and that can't be done behind closed doors...I want my children and our brand new grandson to have a strong future, but as always I leave that in God's hands, he knows his plans for us and I know that it's better than any of mine! 💞


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## Baymule

Well said @drstratton yes you had a change of plans, God has other things in store for you. I wouldn’t trade our farm life for 100 dream vacations. Days like today, watching the Loony Goonie Trio with 11 newly hatched guinea chicks can’t be matched by the finest hotel on an island in paradise. We have our paradise right here.


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## drstratton

Baymule said:


> Well said @drstratton yes you had a change of plans, God has other things in store for you. I wouldn’t trade our farm life for 100 dream vacations. Days like today, watching the Loony Goonie Trio with 11 newly hatched guinea chicks can’t be matched by the finest hotel on an island in paradise. We have our paradise right here.


Thank you.. the joy is in the Journey! 💞


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## Bunnylady

drstratton said:


> I believe that we need to *develop herd immunity* in our country to this disease and that can't be done behind closed doors.



Maybe this is what's been going on . . . .

Social distancing and all the other stuff seems to have seriously slowed the rate of infection in NC; they have begun slowly unwrapping the layers of protections (for example, you can now go to many of the beaches, but you have to keep moving - no sitting or lying around on the sand allowed). A nearby county recently saw a spike of about 90 cases. According to officials there, coronavirus has invaded three nursing homes in spite of containment measures, but more than half of the new cases have nothing to do with that. Some people in the county have a sort of tradition of large family gatherings nearly every weekend, and they have continued to do it in spite of the stay-at-home orders. 39 of the cases have one birthday party as the probable point of exposure/infection (and remember, these are only the ones that were sick enough and nervy enough to seek medical attention and get tested).

I've been trying to decide whether these people are just stupidly ignoring the warnings, or maybe what they are doing is the modern-day equivalent of the "Chicken Pox Party" - a deliberate attempt to get the infection, endure the disease, and get on with their lives.


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## drstratton

Bunnylady said:


> Maybe this is what's been going on . . . .
> 
> Social distancing and all the other stuff seems to have seriously slowed the rate of infection in NC; they have begun slowly unwrapping the layers of protections (for example, you can now go to many of the beaches, but you have to keep moving - no sitting or lying around on the sand allowed). A nearby county recently saw a spike of about 90 cases. According to officials there, coronavirus has invaded three nursing homes in spite of containment measures, but more than half of the new cases have nothing to do with that. Some people in the county have a sort of tradition of large family gatherings nearly every weekend, and they have continued to do it in spite of the stay-at-home orders. 39 of the cases have one birthday party as the probable point of exposure/infection (and remember, these are only the ones that were sick enough and nervy enough to seek medical attention and get tested).
> 
> I've been trying to decide whether these people are just stupidly ignoring the warnings, or maybe what they are doing is the modern-day equivalent of the "Chicken Pox Party" - a deliberate attempt to get the infection, endure the disease, and get on with their lives.


That definitely could be the case!

We needed to keep things open and keep the healthy people working! I can see keeping those with underlying health issues quarantined, but not the healthy population. This is the first time in history that they've quarantined healthy people, it's crazy! Most people will only experience mild symptoms! I would rather take my chances of exposure than to see the economy ruined like it has been! We are destroying our children and grandchildren's future. I've done like they've asked with social distancing, but I don't wear a mask, my husband has to when he's at work!


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## Bunnylady

drstratton said:


> This is the first time in history that they've quarantined healthy people



People keep saying this, but it's not true. Locking down entire populations has been an approach to dealing with pestilence for centuries.

A couple of literary examples that came to mind:

In_ The Masque of the Red Death_ (written in 1842), Edgar Allan Poe created the story of a community in the throes of a fictitious epidemic known as the Red Death. The elite of the community decide to self-isolate in a sumptuous palace, and basically have one long house party until the plague burns itself out. This being a work by Poe, of course this didn't work; Death himself attends the party and everybody dies. While this is a work of fiction, I'm sure the situation was all too familiar to readers of his time.

In 1867, Mark Twain wrote a series of newspaper articles telling about a grand tour of Europe and the Holy Land, which were ultimately collected and published under the title of _The Innocents Abroad_. There are a number of cities that were originally on the itinerary, but to which the tour group is refused entry, either because there is cholera there, and the authorities are trying to contain it, or because there isn't cholera there, and they don't want to risk somebody bringing it in.

(amazing how much useless stuff is cluttering up my head, isn't it?)

During the 1918 flu pandemic, city-wide lock downs were common. Results varied; some of the things that played into the outcome were exactly when they were set in place, and when (and how) they were lifted.


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## drstratton

Bunnylady said:


> People keep saying this, but it's not true. Locking down entire populations has been an approach to dealing with pestilence for centuries.
> 
> A couple of literary examples that came to mind:
> 
> In_ The Masque of the Red Death_ (written in 1842), Edgar Allan Poe created the story of a community in the throes of a fictitious epidemic known as the Red Death. The elite of the community decide to self-isolate in a sumptuous palace, and basically have one long house party until the plague burns itself out. This being a work by Poe, of course this didn't work; Death himself attends the party and everybody dies. While this is a work of fiction, I'm sure the situation was all too familiar to readers of his time.
> 
> In 1867, Mark Twain wrote a series of newspaper articles telling about a grand tour of Europe and the Holy Land, which were ultimately collected and published under the title of _The Innocents Abroad_. There are a number of cities that were originally on the itinerary, but to which they are refused entry, either because there is cholera there, and they are trying to contain it, or because there isn't cholera there, and they don't want to risk somebody bringing it in.
> 
> (amazing how much useless stuff is cluttering up my head, isn't it?)
> 
> During the 1918 flu pandemic, city-wide lock downs were common. Results varied; some of the things that played into the outcome were exactly when they were set in place, and when (and how) they were lifted.


You're correct and I shouldn't have stated that, but I think they have gone overboard with this...because most people only have mild symptoms.  Eventually everyone will probably catch it!


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## Bunnylady

. . and catch it, and catch it, and catch it again (probably).

Just out of curiosity, I looked up what has since become known as the Black Death. Apparently there were three waves of it, in fairly quick succession, each a bit less lethal than the previous one. There's a lot of speculation as to why this was; "herd immunity" is one thought, as is the possibility that it was mutating into less and less nasty forms.


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## drstratton

Bunnylady said:


> . . and catch it, and catch it, and catch it again (probably).
> 
> Just out of curiosity, I looked up what has since become known as the Black Death. Apparently there were three waves of it, in fairly quick succession, each a bit less lethal than the previous one. There's a lot of speculation as to why this was; "herd immunity" is one thought, as is the possibility that it was mutating into less and less nasty forms.


We can only hope that this will mutate into less nasty forms! The Bubonic Plague was pretty horrible!


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## Baymule

There is no telling which way this virus will go, but there will be plenty of expert predictions. Pick one.


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## farmerjan

From the studies I have read, MOST, not all,  "waves" of any type of infectious virus or disease, will hit in a "1st wave"  then it will mutate a bit and any "waves" that come after will be a bit milder because the bodies defenses have reached a level of immunity against it.  If it was the exact same virus as the first hit, it would fizzle out in no time because it would not be able to take hold in bodies that have some / a lot  of immunity.  So there is a mutation, and it will affect some but usually not as badly.  
One of the reasons why so many that get the flu, but do not get as sick;  There is some immunity from the body recognizing that it is an invader, but the new strain is not completely protected against.  So flu shots can work as a "hedge" to help fight against  whatever strain hits, but not always.   Unfortunately, the ones that get hit are ones that usually always have other outlying problems, either due to older age and health issues, or due to young age and not having natural immunities,  and their systems have little or no ability to fight it off even with a "similar " strain that they get the shot for.     I have NO DOCUMENTED PROOF for this thought..... but I think that if you have a good functioning immune system from exposure to many things on a regular basis,  you are better off not  getting all sorts of vaccinations that might actually cause your own immune system to work against it.  There have been some studies in cattle as to whether some of the MLV  vaccines are as effective in animals that have had a passive immunity from previous exposure or from immunity that has passed from dam to calf.  It is widely accepted that you should not give blackleg shots to a calf nursing it's mother until at least 6-10 weeks as the vaccine actually works against the immunity that is in the cow's colostrum and first milk.
  And I am a big believer that giving too many vaccinations to a little baby, before their own system even has a chance to recognize what is a foreign invader, has caused many of the problems that kids have. You can overload their system.   There is a study I read just recently that some of the "stablizers " used in vaccines are a big part of the problem.... like thimerisol and other preservatives. There are lots of studies that claim there is no problem, also.  However, we did not have this huge number of ADD . and AUTISM,   before the advent of this huge push to vaccinate babies with multiple vaccines all at once and at such young ages. 
You will not stop people from getting this corona virus, possibly several times, any more than you are going to prevent people from getting the flu, with or without vaccination, or getting a common cold.  Hopefully we will not see the  horrible fast moving speed of it, but there will be other things to come along.  This world is too transient, and things are spread too fast with other countries not having the same thoughts as we have about it and the possibilities for spreading it. 

Maybe we should be quarantining people like we do animals when they are shipped to other countries.......it would cut down on something like this ever happening..... and there would be no open borders then either.....


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## Grant

Bunnylady said:


> Hmmmm. I have one of those 4-foot-deep "inflatable" pools in the back yard; for years, it has had water hyacinths in it and it has been raising tree frogs by the skazillions. Do you reckon I could use it as a fish farm?
> View attachment 73069
> The "redneck pond," post-Florence.


You could easily raise tilapia in that.


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## promiseacres

Our county has declared a state of emergency and we now have to wear masks in public businesses... seems silly but I'll just pretend I'm a bank robber.


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## farmerjan

Va just said we can start to have elective surgeries, some other lifting of some things.  Ah, dentists can have routine appts.   starting May 1st.... tomorrow.  But we still have a "stay at home order" until June 10th??????


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## Ridgetop

Update from California.

In spite of the findings that the California form of the virus is milder than the NY virus, our quarantines are remaining in place.   Studies show that being exposed to sunlight kills the virus but we have to stay inside our homes or apartments breathing germy air.  No one is allowed to be in public without a mask. The corner mask sellers are doing a booming business. Wearing these masks is not very comfortable. I’m considering ordering a burka since I could wear a bathing suit under it in this heat. I won’t inflict the sight of me in a bathing suit on the public anymore.   

Our CA governor has signed a law closing state owned parks and recreation areas. He was going to close *all* the beaches, however yesterday decided only to close the Orange County ones since they had remained open during the heat spell and residents were driving in from other counties to go to them. The citizen’s disobedience to his recommendations due to the excessive heat and nothing else to do infuriated him.  He is punishing us now.  San Francisco beaches remained open.  Go figure.   Apparently there are several CA cities now calling for Newsom's impeachment.     

Our L.A. mayor has announced that *he* is also extending the quarantine indefinitely. All "non-essential" businesses are forbidden to open.    *HE* will decide which businesses are “non-essential”. Any “non-essential” businesses will have their utilities shut off by the Department of Water and Power by his order. 

Now, in addition to enforced mask wearing, everyone over 65 remaining in their homes, and toilet paper and sanitizer in short supply, our mayor has issued an order *rationing meat*. You are only allowed to buy 2 lbs. of meat per visit to the market. I wonder if he is preparing to issue ration books! Luckily, we have plenty on the hoof, as well as 3 at the butcher along with my side of beef.    

Living in California is becoming more and more like living in a police state! Our governor was going to take our government aid money and give the illegals each about $1500. Nothing was coming to our citizens. Luckily, some citizens filed lawsuit and prevailed since that action is illegal. The more power these liberal dems are able to wield , the more they want, and the more they try to gather more. The socialist state (communism) looms ever closer. Luckily, our citizens are starting to get annoyed at this. They need to return to work and try to save their businesses.  What few are left here.   

We have been under quarantine 45 days and nights now. The Great Flood only lasted *40 *days and nights. Judging by occasional relations in this household, if Noah and his family had not been able to disembark after the 40 days, it might have been the end of the human race! I imagine Mrs. Noah, her DDs, and DILs might have been getting a bit testy. 

Our new garden is coming along. I was able to get tomato, squash, and cucumber plants. I was also able to find a few packets of seeds. Naturally, the next day I got an automated message from Burpee saying that several of the “out of stock” seeds were back in stock. Of course, if our mayor and governor decide to ration water, we will have to buy bottled water to raise it.

It is a good thing that we have nice weather and beautiful scenery here because living under this political government is extremely worrying.  Luckily, we have a barn full of young lambs, a field full of breeding ewes, the birds are building nests with the Dorper's shed wool, everything is in bloom (ACHOO!) and the hummingbirds are back.  

God is good, and we have ammunition.            Keep your powder dry and your rifle and bible close!


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## Simpleterrier

So I have been asking everyone I meet in the last few weeks if they know anyone who has it so far I have only one and it is a relative in Florida. And I mean I ask everyone work, gas station everyone.


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## Ridgetop

FDIL's grandfather died of it 2 weeks ago.  BUT he had TB as a young man and had many bouts of pneumonia resulting in badly scarred lungs.  He also had some fibrosis in his lungs.  FDIL's great aunt also had it but has almost recovered without being hospitalized.  FDIL's sister had it and has just about recovered.  All lived with grandfather so not surprising 3 people in household had it.  With her sisters and brother home from college, there are about 9 of them at home right now.  FDIL lives with us luckily (no room at home with all those siblings showing up - they took over her room!)  FDIL's mother's test was inconclusive so she had another test Wednesday.

DH and I have phone appointments with our doctor Monday requesting antibody tests since we are pretty sure we already had it in February.  When I talked to the Infectious Disease nurse at UCLA describing our symptoms she said it sounded like we had it since they are learning that it is not as dangerous to most people as originally thought. 

I will let everyone know what happens with that.  I think a lot more people had it before the quarantine than most people think.  The news has really been effective with their scare tactics.


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## Baymule

I think our family had it too. Our daughter, her husband and the 3 girls all were sick and felt bad. We kept the sick little girls. My husband got sick, deep in his chest with a cough that wouldn’t go away. He went to the doctor, got a steroid shot, antibiotic shot, antibiotic pills and a breathing thing that he used twice a day. I never got sick, so was probably a Typhoid Mary, going  around spreading the virus. @Ridgetop I’m interested in your test results, if you had it or not.


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## Ridgetop

Hopefully doctor will write up test script so we can go in on Thursday for the test.  I have an appointment with my oncologist for annual follow up that day.  Since doctor is so far away (1-2 hours when traffic is bad - 1/2 hour in middle of night with foot to the floor  LOL) I would rather do several doctor or medical type things on one day. 

I will let everyone know as soon as results come in.  I am hoping it will show we had it since it will help DH relax.  He is getting paranoid about having turned 77 and hearing that the virus is just waiting to snatch him up!      

I have to post a correction about the meat situation in California.  According to DH, who gave me the first info from his non-stop virus supervision, we are not limited to 2 lbs. of meat per grocery visit.   Dh now says we are limited to 2 packages of meat, chicken, and fish every visit.   He thinks.  Most of this is due to processing plants in the Midwest being closed. However, beef is also going up in price because less is being sent in to the packing plants.  DH wondered why this was so and I quoted *Farmerjan's* info about the low prices beef has been bringing. DH was impressed with my grasp of farm prices.  Thanks *Farmerjan!* 

I wonder if my side of beef counts as 1 package?  LOL


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## rachels.haven

Our grocery store was selling chicken meat in 5-10 pound water balloon-like packages for 50 cents a pound back when the restaurants had just shut down (good quality chicken too, just bad, leaky plastic bags). Two packages might tide you over for a good long time if they are/were still dumping. Probably not for long.


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## drstratton

Inslee just extended WA States quarantine out to May 31st and announced a 4 phase reopening plan, without a real timeline. There is definitely a leftist agenda and Covid has given them the excuse they've been looking for to push it and strip us of our constitutional rights. If this keeps going we will no longer be the land of the free! I just have to keep reminding myself that God is still & always will be in control, His plans are greater than mine are. The only thing we can do is exercise our right to vote & vote them out. Sadly our country is leaning farther & farther left as our children are being taught in their propaganda centers disguised as the public education system!


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## Ridgetop

drstratton said:


> Inslee just extended WA States quarantine out to May 31st and announced a 4 phase reopening plan, without a real timeline. There is definitely a leftist agenda and Covid has given them the excuse they've been looking for to push it and strip us of our constitutional rights. If this keeps going we will no longer be the land of the free! I just have to keep reminding myself that God is still & always will be in control, His plans are greater than mine are. The only thing we can do is exercise our right to vote & vote them out. Sadly our country is leaning farther & farther left as our children are being taught in their propaganda centers disguised as the public education system!



So right!  Especially the schools indoctrinating our children.  My DD1 is a public school teacher and in the 2016 election she was castigated for not declaring for Hillary loudly and telling her students to vote for her!   They got mad at her when they went around passing out Hillary info and she said if they did that they should also pass out Trump info too to be fair.  She was ostracized for a year because she wouldn't tell them who she was voting for, and refused to march for Hillary!  

The major news stations and newspapers are also tools of the Libs.  They hate the idea that Coved might end or be shown to be less dangerous than first touted because it is such good news to predict worldwide destruction.   The liberal government was quick to jump on closing churches first, but leaving liquor stores open.   I want *ALL * businesses to open back up.  

Politics have gotten very vicious.  Whoever is elected can be removed in 4 years.  In the meantime, the elected officials are supposed to be working for us but apparently they didn't read that in the job descriptions.


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## drstratton

Ridgetop said:


> So right!  Especially the schools indoctrinating our children.  My DD1 is a public school teacher and in the 2016 election she was castigated for not declaring for Hillary loudly and telling her students to vote for her!   They got mad at her when they went around passing out Hillary info and she said if they did that they should also pass out Trump info too to be fair.  She was ostracized for a year because she wouldn't tell them who she was voting for, and refused to march for Hillary!
> 
> The major news stations and newspapers are also tools of the Libs.  They hate the idea that Coved might end or be shown to be less dangerous than first touted because it is such good news to predict worldwide destruction.   The liberal government was quick to jump on closing churches first, but leaving liquor stores open.   I want *ALL * businesses to open back up.
> 
> Politics have gotten very vicious.  Whoever is elected can be removed in 4 years.  In the meantime, the elected officials are supposed to be working for us but apparently they didn't read that in the job descriptions.


Terrible what they did to your daughter, but not surprising. 
When my oldest son was in the 7th grade, 21 years ago, his teacher told me that he was not very politically correct sometimes...I told her good, that's called free speech...they've been at this for a long time. I home schooled him the next year & then God provided the means to send him to a Christian school with our values. I pulled our daughter out after 6th grade & our youngest after the 4th grade. God gave us just enough overtime to pay for their high school education. All we can do is pray & vote!


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## Mike CHS

We placed a flyer on the board at the farm store that we use listing lambs for sale. We have gotten a half dozen calls from people asking about getting a lamb or two.  After the first call, I learned to ask a couple of questions before answering any more questions.  The first thing I ask is what kind of fence they have.  Three callers in a row had small lots with chain link fence and the next two said the last owner had run cattle and there was two strands of barbed wire.

After those calls I call Bill (the owner at the store) and asked him to take down the ad.  We are keeping 6 ram lambs to either go in the freezer or sell to someone as meat.


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## Baymule

We haven’t ventured to the stores since the reopening has started. We drove past Loews and it was a madhouse. I want more weed cloth for the garden, so will have to go next week.


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## Ridgetop

drstratton said:


> When my oldest son was in the 7th grade, 21 years ago, his teacher told me that he was not very politically correct sometimes...I told her good, that's called free speech...they've been at this for a long time. I home schooled him the next year & then God provided the means to send him to a Christian school with our values. I pulled our daughter out after 6th grade & our youngest after the 4th grade. God gave us just enough overtime to pay for their high school education. All we can do is pray & vote!


Teachers teaching their own political values and not the 3 R's is one reason why schools are falling behind  Another is the total lack of participation or interest by so many parents.  This is why so many kids  know their "rights" but not history or geography.
Our grandchildren came home from school talking about "fair" and how the liberals were trying to make everything "fair".   We discussed what liberal "fair' meant.  They are A students.  They already know that some kids don't want to do homework or study (their mother is a middle school teacher remember).  We explained how some kids do F work, some do C work and others do A work.  In socialism (liberalism) that all grades would be averaged so everyone got a C.  They were furious that their hard work would not be allocated to themselves but rather shared out to those with poor grades.  "not fair".  They abandoned socialism and returned to the fold.   LOL

*MikeCHS:  *I PREFER TO SELL ONLY MEAT AND DELIVER IT TO THE BUTCHER MYSELF.  Over the years I have found that selling livestock for pets to people doesn't work.  They figure they just have to put it in a small space with some weeds and a little grass and don't have to feed.  That may work in some areas, but not here in southern CA.  Many of them have dogs that will kill the sheep. Their fences are bad and they don't want to put up new ones.  They don't see the need for a shelter, or they want to keep it in a garage.  With the car.   They won't trim feet, or make sure it is kept healthy.  They might "love" it but it will live in misery until they tire of it.

One such sale stands out - a woman wanted to buy a ewe lamb for her half acre property full of weeds and grass.  I checked it for fencing, and it was ok so I sold her the ewe.  6 months later she called me and wanted me to take the sheep back!  Not only did she want me to buy it back for more than she paid, but wanted me to pay for the halter, feeder, and bales of hay she had fed it in the 6 months!  I told her that I had a closed flock and did not "take back" animals after they had left the premises.  I could place it somewhere but not at the amount she was demanding  She was very annoyed.   I advised her to put an ad up at the feed store.  Give me meat sales every time.   No complaints, no problems, satisfied and returning customers.  Unless you are selling to someone who has done their homework on keeping an animal and/or is willing to follow instructions and advice, it is not worth the trouble!


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## drstratton

Baymule said:


> We haven’t ventured to the stores since the reopening has started. We drove past Loews and it was a madhouse. I want more weed cloth for the garden, so will have to go next week.


Was Lowe's  closed in Texas?  All of the home improvement stores remained open in WA...which is extremely surprising!


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## drstratton

Ridgetop said:


> Teachers teaching their own political values and not the 3 R's is one reason why schools are falling behind  Another is the total lack of participation or interest by so many parents.  This is why so many kids  know their "rights" but not history or geography.
> Our grandchildren came home from school talking about "fair" and how the liberals were trying to make everything "fair".   We discussed what liberal "fair' meant.  They are A students.  They already know that some kids don't want to do homework or study (their mother is a middle school teacher remember).  We explained how some kids do F work, some do C work and others do A work.  In socialism (liberalism) that all grades would be averaged so everyone got a C.  They were furious that their hard work would not be allocated to themselves but rather shared out to those with poor grades.  "not fair".  They abandoned socialism and returned to the fold.   LOL


Yes, our school system is broken and you're correct, so many parents don't realize and just don't care! What a great way to explain it to them!
We went to see our new grandson, he's also our first.  He's only a month old, still so tiny and honestly I'm terrified of what his future and the future of your grandchildren and every other child in this world will be. By the time the people that are blindly trusting in the government finally realize what they've lost, it will already be to late!


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## Baymule

drstratton said:


> Was Lowe's  closed in Texas?  All of the home improvement stores remained open in WA...which is extremely surprising!


Lowes and grocery stores and other essential stores had limited capacity. So there was one way in, one way out and someone had to stand at the door counting people as they came in and left. Reach capacity? Line up 6 feet apart.


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## drstratton

Baymule said:


> Lowes and grocery stores and other essential stores had limited capacity. So there was one way in, one way out and someone had to stand at the door counting people as they came in and left. Reach capacity? Line up 6 feet apart.


Gotcha, that was the same here too! We only had to wait in line a couple of times!


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## Ridgetop

Lowes never  seemed to busy here, although they were ut of bleach and toilet paper!  LOL  We (DS!) seem to be there every week since we are working on our house projects.  

Got our OK for the Covid antibody tests, but the lab says we will have to stand in line outside till they can take us.  DH found a UCLA lab location in Burbank though so much closer.  The woman said no appointments, open 8-5 but 1-2 seemed to be less busy.


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## drstratton

A lock down story!

My husband & I were in town on Sunday and needed to get some food! So, we called in an order and picked it up! We then moved from in front of the restaurant and found a different place to park in the lot! We opened the bag with our food in it only to discover that they didn't include any eating utensils! I was tired and a bit hungry and now, I was slightly irritated...they should automatically include silverware when you order take out...yes grumpy me! Dale says, maybe you have to ask for it and I say, no, they should include it...still grumpy! I did however compose myself as I went back to the restaurant to politely request something to eat our food with! So, Monday morning rolls around and I make Dale's lunch for his work day! Tuesday morning, I open his lunch box to be greeted with this!  The picture explains the rest of the story... 😂 😂 😂


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## Bunnylady

Y'know how people keep wanting to get things moving again, and as part of it, keep saying, "at risk -stay home?" I just saw an article where the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services did a breakdown of our population, and guess what? Over half of the adults in NC are in one or more of the "at risk" groups!


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## drstratton

Bunnylady said:


> Y'know how people keep wanting to get things moving again, and as part of it, keep saying, "at risk -stay home?" I just saw an article where the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services did a breakdown of our population, and guess what? Over half of the adults in NC are in one or more of the "at risk" groups!


That's really sad & is probably true for a lot of people in our country. We are a very unhealthy nation!


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## Beekissed




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## Mike CHS

We have potential customers for several lambs as meat but we got to calling around and the earliest we can get any processed is November.  We got to doing the math and decided we will be taking all of the lambs to the sale barn except for the replacement ewes we are keeping.


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## Baymule

We have a slaughter date in June because I set it months ago. But having a hard time selling the meat. Not going to pay for slaughtering charges, then try to sell meat. We will take them to sale. I have two live lambs sold, we’ll deliver them to slaughter, owners will pick up meat and pay for processing. I have several more I’m going to try to sell like that.


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## Mike CHS

We had every intention of selling 21 off the farm but if I can't get them processed, I'll run out of grass before I get rid of them.  We are always about a week away from drought conditions every year starting in June and we don't want to get caught paying $ to sell them.  The market is good enough still here that it's still profitable to sell them as lambs.


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## Ridgetop

Are you selling through an auction or taking them to a processor to sell?  What is the average price - is it per head or lb.?  What do they weigh?  I have someone coming tomorrow to pic up a small lamb - for Ramadan, I think.  It is the Arab friend of an Armenian acquaintance.  The acquaintance wants a small lamb the following week.

At first he said his friend wanted a 20-30 lb. lamb for a dinner for 10 men.  I explained that there would be no meat on a 20 lb. live weight lamb since it would dress out to 10 lbs. of meat if he was lucky.  I have had several middle eastern people ask for 20 lb. lambs.  Either the lambs they are buying are very small breeds, or they are ordering a 20 lb. lamb from a butcher and that is the dressed weight.  I explained the dress out  percentage and he agreed that his friend probably wanted a 20 lb. carcass.  They are coming tomorrow to pick up the lamb live.  he was happy to hear that it was not castrated yet and had its tail.  We are not docking the ram lambs anymore since they are all going for meat.   I would like to be able to sell the ram lambs at 2 months old.  These March lambs are ranging from 50-60 lbs. at 2 months old.  That is more profitable than feeding them out to 100 lbs. at 4-5 months even on forage.  Since my ewes will rebreed 3 months or so after lambing, it would suit my operation to sell younger lambs since I can cut my hay costs.    

I would like to know what the average price live lambs are bringing at what weight in your area of the country.


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## Mike CHS

Ridgetop said:


> Are you selling through an auction or taking them to a processor to sell?  What is the average price - is it per head or lb.?  What do they weigh?  I have someone coming tomorrow to pic up a small lamb - for Ramadan, I think.  It is the Arab friend of an Armenian acquaintance.  The acquaintance wants a small lamb the following week.
> 
> At first he said his friend wanted a 20-30 lb. lamb for a dinner for 10 men.  I explained that there would be no meat on a 20 lb. live weight lamb since it would dress out to 10 lbs. of meat if he was lucky.  I have had several middle eastern people ask for 20 lb. lambs.  Either the lambs they are buying are very small breeds, or they are ordering a 20 lb. lamb from a butcher and that is the dressed weight.  I explained the dress out  percentage and he agreed that his friend probably wanted a 20 lb. carcass.  They are coming tomorrow to pick up the lamb live.  he was happy to hear that it was not castrated yet and had its tail.  We are not docking the ram lambs anymore since they are all going for meat.   I would like to be able to sell the ram lambs at 2 months old.  These March lambs are ranging from 50-60 lbs. at 2 months old.  That is more profitable than feeding them out to 100 lbs. at 4-5 months even on forage.  Since my ewes will rebreed 3 months or so after lambing, it would suit my operation to sell younger lambs since I can cut my hay costs.
> 
> I would like to know what the average price live lambs are bringing at what weight in your area of the country.



There are no processors available so we are going through the auction in Columbia, TN.  Last week we got on average $2.25 a pound live weight for the 16 we took in and a friend of ours that works there says it should be that or higher when we haul a load of 30 some in on Monday.  All of this group is in the 40-70 pound range at 2 1/2 months to 3 1/2 months old.  The ram lambs are all intact and we were planning on keeping two of them for the freezer but not if I have to dedicate a paddock to them and no processor.  We are sending everything to the sale and only keeping the best ewes.

We finished doing fecal runs on all of those from this week on the senior ewes.  We had zero eggs on all except one and she had 3 eggs.   This has been our base herd and it looks like it will stay that way.  Our replacement ewes are exclusively from this same group of ewes so that makes 4 generations of keepers.  I have good thoughts about this bunch.


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## Baymule

We have not ventured to the sale barns yet, but I think it will be the better way to sell. We just haven't had many lambs, so marketed them as meat, plus our own consumption. I think I'll stop castrating the ram lambs, wean at 2 months, give them a little time to get over missing momma and take to an auction.


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## promiseacres

So two of my favorite things are trail riding at state parks and/or camping. The state is slowly opening but these two things are still not allowed until end of the month.  Yeah it's just a bit depressing.


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## drstratton

promiseacres said:


> So two of my favorite things are trail riding at state parks and/or camping. The state is slowly opening but these two things are still not allowed until end of the month.  Yeah it's just a bit depressing.


Because you can't social distance on a trail or at a campground! Makes no sense!


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## farmerjan

Makes no sense at all since in the "act " of trail riding you are  more than several feet apart 99% of the time.   That's really dumb.  But our gov is still doing stupid stuff too.


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## farmerjan

All the ethnic buyers here want the ram lambs intact and no tail docking either.  And the preferred live weight here is in the 40-70 lb size live weight.  There is a big call for them for their different holidays.  Goats too.  Since they kill them themselves, or have a dedicated facility to do them, they are not dependent on the big slaughter houses.  Used to be that lambs brought the best prices at 95-110 lbs for what they used to call "blue O's"  and they would go directly to slaughter, with "reds" @ 75-90 lbs, going on feed for a few weeks .


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## farmerjan

If you are going to take lambs to the sale, don't wean and feed for a few weeks.  They will drop weight for the first week, then you will have to feed them for another week to 3 weeks just to get it back on.  Wait until you are ready to sell, pull them and go directly to the sale barn.  They will be at their best body condition right off the ewes.  Yeah, not fun for them, but that is the practicality of it.  And trying to time when they are born so that the lambs are at the size wanted for the ethnic holidays.  Gotta play the "game" as far as timing goes to get the best return on your investment.


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## Ridgetop

farmerjan said:


> If you are going to take lambs to the sale, don't wean and feed for a few weeks. They will drop weight for the first week, then you will have to feed them for another week to 3 weeks just to get it back on. Wait until you are ready to sell, pull them and go directly to the sale barn. They will be at their best body condition right off the ewes. Yeah, not fun for them, but that is the practicality of it. And trying to time when they are born so that the lambs are at the size wanted for the ethnic holidays. Gotta play the "game" as far as timing goes to get the best return on your investment.



Absolutely correct!  They look their best and are at best weight right off mom and her rich milk.  Do not pull lambs and then keep them around.  Loss of time, effort and money.  Lambs will scream in the sale barn no matter how long you give them to "get over" weaning.   They ;buyers don't care about their emotional health - they plan to eat them.  LOL  Take several at a time, they will have comfort in being with flock members.  The buyers are going to take them home and slaughter them within a few days anyway.  No need to waste feed weaning them, or need a separate pen to hold them off away from their moms.  Ramadan ends the end of May.  This is the perfect time to sell for the Arab market.  

Cold turkey drying your ewes off the lambs is easy too.  After removing the lambs, withhold feed for 24 hours.  I used to withhold water as well, but not any more, especially in summer.  Witholding food works great.  Since their lambs were already eating forage and hay they were starting to wean naturally anyway.  I don't  pull ewe lambs off mom unless I am running mom in with a ram.  The ewe  lambs will wean naturally.  Dorpers (and Katahdins?) are genetically bred to utilize poor feed better than other breeds of sheep.  They will not suffer by keeping the ewe lambs in with them and breeding them again. 

We are also making a management change in selling our lambs this year.  I have 3 new Persian and Armenian buyers that want the lambs with the tails on, intact, weighing 50 lbs.  if we don't sell them all and need to grow them out more we can still wether the ram lambs at 10 weeks . I would prefer to sell all ram lambs at 50 lbs. They are barely 2 months old at that point and not eating much hay or forage. This saves all my hay money for the ewes and returns my ewes to production sooner.  Better to sell younger lambs financially speaking.  I am going to call my local cattle auction yard. Once a week they sell other animals. I will check on the prices they are getting for 50 lbs. lambs. I also need to call the local Halal market and check on the price they pay for 50 lb. lambs.  If I can run y lambs through the auction at 40-50 lbs.  I will do it.  It is much easier to drop all lambs off in one go than try to work up a larger customer base.  

BAYMULE:  Check the processors in mid Texas.  You and BJ can visit the grandkids when you make a lamb run to the processor.


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## Mike CHS

Ridgetop said:


> I would like to know what the average price live lambs are bringing at what weight in your area of the country.



They sell by the pound live weight. Our smallest right now is 44 pounds a few days ago.  Leaving the lambs on the dams doesn't work for us since we are breeding back in a couple of weeks and the ewes need time to put some weight on. and fill out after nursing.

HAIR BREEDS - Choice and Prime 2-3 (Per Cwt / Actual Wt)
Head Wt Range Avg Wt Price Range Avg Price Dressing
88 47-49 48 215.00-225.00 222.02 Average
124 51-58 53 200.00-222.50 218.59 Average
118 65-67 66 210.00-230.00 221.58 Average
1 70 70 215.00 215.00 Average
7 81-85 83 210.00-215.00 212.20 Average
11 90-93 91 150.00-200.00 190.90 Average
4 109 109 152.50 152.50 Average
HAIR BREEDS - Good 1-2 (Per Cwt / Actual Wt)
Head Wt Range Avg Wt Price Range Avg Price Dressing
10 47 47 202.50 202.50 Average
1 50 50 210.00 210.00 Average
2 63 63 200.00 200.00 Average


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## Ridgetop

That is excellent pricing!  Definitely better to take them to the auction barn for those prices.  And much less hassle than trying to accommodate times for buyers to come to the ranch for pickup.  I need to check our prices, however, our auction does not sell by the pound but by the head.  On the 40 lbs. lambs it looks like you are actually getting close to $4.00 per lb.!


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## Mike CHS

Ridgetop said:


> That is excellent pricing!  Definitely better to take them to the auction barn for those prices.  And much less hassle than trying to accommodate times for buyers to come to the ranch for pickup.  I need to check our prices, however, our auction does not sell by the pound but by the head.  On the 40 lbs. lambs it looks like you are actually getting close to $4.00 per lb.!



It is.  The 13 head that we took in a couple of weeks ago paid for next winters hay.  The 30 we take in Monday will be clear except for the feed we have used in the last couple of weeks keeping them in condition.


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## Simpleterrier

Do u know how I know that lamb price is up?

Cause all the Amish have then


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## CntryBoy777

Bet ya can't eat your lawnmower @Simpleterrier .....


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## Bunnylady

drstratton said:


> I'm so sick of the censorship that's going on in our country! They are violating our Constitutional right of free speech!



The owners of YouTube don't want their site used as a means to encourage people to hurt themselves or others, to hurt animals, to break the law, etc. There are scads of videos uploaded to their site every day; they can't possibly view them all before they go up. Therefore, they rely on their subscribers to report videos that are offensive in some way. _Somebody_ (probably multiple somebodies) flagged that video, which means they reviewed it, and decided it contained content that was not the kind of thing they want their site used to disseminate, and took it down. That is not a violation of anybody's right to free speech. Nobody said, "you can't talk like that," they just said, "you can't use our platform to spread misinformation."


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## rachels.haven

I'm not sure they really look at the video unless the creator appeals its removal. Enough flags and it's down. Just simple algorithm. Peta people do that to farm videos all the time. Appealing it can bring it back for a time.
YouTube might do a little censoring, but they are providing a "free" service to you and they know it. They do not care what you think and know you most likely "cant" live without them, so even if offended they know you'll be back. Their real product is selling ads to advertisers and feeding them to you before, during, and after your video.
YouTube is not a right. It is a business, very much like Facebook. Remember that, and things they do will start to make a lot more sense.
They don't care if you are happy. It's those advertisers they want happy and fed.


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## rachels.haven

I have heard they have been demonizing most covid videos to prevent propaganda content mills though. The creator may have removed that video when they found it didn't pay. I wouldn't donate free work to them.
Anywho, we're mostly still shut down here. Ghost town. That seems to make people stuck out working on it happy. When people gather, that's when I see unhappy employees.


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## Bunnylady

rachels.haven said:


> YouTube is not a right. It is a business



Yep, it sure is, a business that is hurting just like so many others. A lot of YouTubers' ad income has taken a hit, thanks to the pandemic. Some that various family members like to follow have been putting up content just to keep them current in the algorithm;  I've heard a couple say that by the time they got through paying their editing staff, etc, a video was going to cost them more to make than they were going to earn from it.

They are slowly loosening the restrictions around here; traffic is a lot heavier than it has been. The thing that has me most on edge these days are what my husband has dubbed the covidrivers. I see it every time I go out - people driving like they are playing a video game.


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## Ridgetop

*WE GOT TOILET PAPER!!! *

Limit one, but 16 roll pack.  Still collecting magazines since I thought we were going to have to use them last week!

BAD MAYOR GARCETTI!  LOS ANGELES MAYOR HAS DECIDED ARBITRATRILY THAT WE SHALL REMAIN CLOSED DOWN THROUGH AUGUST!   CURSES ON ALL THESE LIBERAL DMEOCRAT OFFICIALS WHO TRY TO SEIZE POWER IN THIS WAY!  

Did anyone see the provisions in Pelosi's new 3 Trillion "Covid Relief Bill"?  Relief payments to all illegals, open all borders, and most of the 3 Trillion is not even directed at Covid relief!  Oh yes, and release all the prisoners in all the jails!  They probably need the space for those wicked people that don't want to wear masks and be under house arrest for the next 3 months!  AND NEED THEIR HAIR AND NAILS DONE!!!!!

Did it look like Pelosi tried to dye her own hair?  She looks like she got some of the dark brown dye too low on her forehead and over one eye!  It will stain the skin if you are not careful.   Don't ask me how I know this because I am a natural beauty who would never stoop to artificial enhancement.      

I think Pelosi and Uncle Joe will soon be sharing space at the nursing home.


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## rachels.haven

If you reopen your nursing homes will be as empty as ours, so they'll get their pick of venues for their golden years.


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## Ridgetop

My family tries to keep their old people at home instead of in a nursing home, except for temporary stays for specific reasons.  My father-in-law went into assisted living because my mother-in-law had Alzheimers.  When she passed away we asked him to come live with us but he refused.  

We tell our children that living with them when we are old is how we plan to get our revenge.  LOL

It won't be long before Biden and Pelosi will have to be in the lock down unit for senility.


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## Baymule

Term limits. I’m really sick of these power mad life timers that get filthy rich on political pay. Liars, thieves, that stab their grandmother in the guts, twisting the knife, for the promise of filthy lucre. I despise them and begrudge the air they breathe, the food wasted on them so that they can continue their criminal activities against US the AMERICAN PEOPLE. Did I mention I despise them?


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## Xerocles

Baymule said:


> Term limits. I’m really sick of these power mad life timers that get filthy rich on political pay. Liars, thieves, that stab their grandmother in the guts, twisting the knife, for the promise of filthy lucre. I despise them and begrudge the air they breathe, the food wasted on them so that they can continue their criminal activities against US the AMERICAN PEOPLE. Did I mention I despise them?


But @Baymule . Don't beat around the Bush. Tell us how you REALLY feel.


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## Baymule

Xerocles said:


> But @Baymule . Don't beat around the Bush. Tell us how you REALLY feel.


I was restraining myself.


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## promiseacres

Kid's summer camp is canceled, they took the news well. They have been very good through everything being canceled.  I expect that they will be an announcement within the next week about 4H fairs... probably all will be virtual. I hate that word, virtual....


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## CntryBoy777

I'm extremely tired of hearing "social distancing".....whatever happened to simple "consideration and respecting another's space"?....ya shouldn't need an order or law to keep others off yo azz and outta yo face....we avoid crowds for this reason alone....and if ya ceel ya have to give me "your Opinion"....then ya can "bet yo sweet azz" I will be sure to share mine with "you"..........sorry bout that, but as I told my brother last night....this has gone well beyond "stupidity" and I still waiting on gooble to "term" what the next "level" is.....cause it is well above my edgycation level....


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## Baymule

We are not done with this. IMO for what it’sworth ,  I feel Covid 19 will come roaring back this winter. Now that items are back in the stores, for the most part, everyone needs to stock up every time you go to the store. Just be ready to batten down the hatches again. We may not be under lockdown but do you really want to risk it if you don’t have to? Or we may be back under lockdown, who knows? Main thing is, people are relaxing now, under the false feeling of getting back to normal, but we don’t need to be lulled into a feeling of false security. Don’t let your guard down and get ready for Round Two.


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## Bunnylady

@CntryBoy777  Do you really have a 6' "personal space?" That must make conversations _really_ awkward (or really loud!) I totally get keeping people (especially strangers) at arm's length, but this is in the neighborhood of 2-3 times the length of most people's arms.  Under normal circumstances, if you try to stay that far away from people, most folks would be like, "what's your problem?" Most people get within 3' of other folks without a thought - especially in social situations. I was in a couple of grocery stores yesterday, and if I had stayed 6' away from every other person there the entire time, those trips would have taken at least twice as long. Even with one-way traffic, the aisles in the stores aren't wide enough to allow you to pass other shoppers at the prescribed distance (at least, not without climbing on the shelves!).

@Baymule we are definitely not done with this - according to the WHO, there were more than 18,000 new cases reported in the US yesterday, and over 1000 deaths. The day before, there were over 23,000 new cases, which is about where the numbers have been running for some time. The great fear is that people will think this is over, and go right back to what they've always been doing, and the number of new cases will skyrocket.

I joke that this is turning us all into a nation of hoarders. There are still a lot of gaps on the shelves here; a lot of popular items like paper towels and toilet paper are often only one or two brands available, and they may not last the day. I haven't seen rice or flour in one local chain for about a month. I am definitely guilty of buying things that I don't need right now, because when I do need it in a week or two, it may not be there. And I've just read that half a dozen employees at the Maruchan plant have tested positive; does that mean there's going to be a run on ramen next?


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## CntryBoy777

Naw @Bunnylady I don't have a 6' "personal space", but I do have common sense, consideration, and respect of others....there may be another "round or 2" of this mess, but if not this...I'm sure something else will take its place....I'm still not skeered....I have a firm belief that if it is intended for me to be here, I will be....and if not, then it will be my time to become a "statistic"....we all do, sooner or later no matter the situation, reason, or preventative measures taken....cemetaries are a reminder that All succumb....I believe in The Bible and since we are under the authority of the prince of the power of the air...Eph 2:2...and he only comes to steal, kill, and destroy....expecting that humanity can or will change that is a practice in futality....because, if a "cure" is found....there will always be something else that is new, bigger, or badder that will end with the same result....death...and nothing humanity can do will ever change that.....


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## Bunnylady

Oh, yeah, definitely, nobody gets out of this alive. But even if you take the attitude of "when it's my time to go, it's my time, and nothing is going to change that," I'll bet you look both ways when you cross the street, don't you? And that's what this is about - taking reasonable precautions. Frankly, having watched my mother die in a manner similar to how COVID 19 casualties are going - I'd prefer the speeding bus.


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## CntryBoy777

Bunnylady said:


> Oh, yeah, definitely, nobody gets out of this alive. But even if you take the attitude of "when it's my time to go, it's my time, and nothing is going to change that," I'll bet you look both ways when you cross the street, don't you? And that's what this is about - taking reasonable precautions. Frankly, having watched my mother die in a manner similar to how COVID 19 casualties are going - I'd prefer the speeding bus.


Sorry to hear about your mother....
Mine died with lung cancer and I was the "caregiver".....I don't mean to sound "callused"....but, I've faced death several times in my life starfing at the age of 4 and have an "arm's length of issues" to deal with on a daily basis....I'm considered in the "high risk" catagory....but, certainly not scared, running, or hiding....will not go to the hospital again and unless it is mandated by law will not take a vaccine....some may equate that to not "looking both ways", but that is their perogative and freedom to do so.....


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## rachels.haven

I like @CntryBoy777 way of looking at it. I like my large personal space.
Last year alone I got strep throat 8 times. EIGHT. I don't think I've had strep throat eight times in my life before coming here. I haven't had so much as a cold since quarantine started. As long as I'm here in germy Mass, please give me my six feet and I may stay masked in public.


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## Ridgetop

Our Los Angeles mayor - Eric Garcetti - has now decreed that we will be quarantined for another 3 months!  That is until Labor Day!!!  Then he retreated and "explained" we would be doing a "phased" opening over the next 3 months.  Everyone also has to wear a mask when outside their homes!

Here is the problem with this.  Yes, there will probably be a large-medium number of case popping up this winter again.  BECAUSE with everyone hidden away no one is building any immunity to the disease.  People who would not have caught it, or who would have gotten a light case, or had no symptoms, will have been shielded from it and will now catch it.  *Or not*, since many people already had it or have an immunity and don't know it because of this quarantine. This wearing of masks, so-called "social distancing", and staying home not being able to feed your family is not doing us any good in building immunity. 

Do we stay home to avoid colds?  Did we stay home during Hong Kong flu or Swine flu?  Did everyone die?  No, but a lot of people did and there was no outcry about it.  No CDC warning us to wear masks and stay home.  At least with this Covid they have some effective ways to treat it.

Keeping us home until fall when a different strain of flu, in addition to Covid, appears is ridiculous.  Sweden did nothing to control it, and they have finished with it - no new cases in a month.  Granted fewer people, but everything is relative.  We have a huge number of cases, but we have a huge population.  You can't compare our number of infections to other countries when we are testing a million people and other countries are testing a couple thousand. Our death rate is tiny compared to the size of our population compared to some other countries. 

We need to be sensible abut this.  Dr. Faucci is getting impressed with himself and the way these doctors, governors, and mayors keep control of us is by scaring us with projected umbers that don't happen.  We need to take back our freedom.

*AND STOCK UP ON TOILET PAPER!*


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## Jesusfreak101

I third it the kids and I went to heb unmasked  we are such rebels we did not catch covid oh no but we caught the horrid stomach bug from he// . Pardon my language but yeah still sick with it some. We had it for.a week ds2 our 2 year old caught it First, then dh and ds1 and me following pretty much the next day. By some miracle both girls didn't catch it probably because dh and I get out food or drinks stolen by both boys that it's not possible for us to avoid. It one of the worst one i have had. Sever stomach cramps, one day and only one day of body aches, low grade fever 100.5 barely registers as a fever body chills then a head ache and that all goes but then stomach problem is still hanging on. There are plenty of germs out there and you cant keep every one of them away and yes they all have the potential to be the end. But can't and won't living my life watching to the end of the ride i prefer to enjoy it. So stomach bug or not(and for those who do know i am stomach bug wimp i hate them granted I hate being sick all together) life goes on kids need to be feed, animals need to be tend garden needs to be weeded, and watered. For those without such things life contiunes people need to make a living they need to work life goes on. It's not just about those who are (sorry if sounds cruel) weak with immunity issues or other health issues, most people need to buy groceries pay bills provide for their children. I know some who the virus is the least of their problems but them being broke out of work and having kids to feed a bigger issue because they arent essential according to the government they don't have to work but then the government doesn't have to watch their kid be hungry or the mother and fathers be so stressed but now way to relieve that stress. I know more people that have been affected by the governments ignorant policy then the virus. Sorry but i can make my own choice about my life and others can do the same. There been alot of extra liberties that have been taken by those in power then what is not only reasonably but things they have no right to touch.


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## Jesusfreak101

Ridge we be drinking the same koolade lol okay to funny i love the toilet paper part. Lol.


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## Bunnylady

Ridgetop said:


> Sweden did nothing to control it, and they have finished with it - no new cases in a month



Weird - Sweden has continued to report new cases to the WHO every day; yesterday they reported 637 new cases, and 147 deaths. I realize there are all kinds of ways of reporting, but if you compare Sweden's  3460 confirmed deaths to their 27,909 confirmed cases, you get a ghastly number for a death rate - one of the highest in the world. And while they didn't institute a mandatory quarantine, they have done other things like restrict nursing home visits, put a 50-person cap on gatherings, encourage high schools and colleges to go to "distance learning," and they have been asking their citizens to take responsibility for their own health, and that of others, and voluntarily adopt other social distancing practices. In a country with a reputation for trusting authority figures and  adherence to the rules, that is a far cry from doing nothing.


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## CntryBoy777

@Ridgetop we are heading into "hurricane season" here, so ya have to have a "supply" of stuff on hand to avoid the "stampede and panic" with every twitch of the "projected" path and cone of "uncertainty"....many wait til the day before and shelves are empty....  .....the stores are keeping some on the shelves now, so at least we can have some on hand.....doesn't pay to have too much tho cause ya may have to walk a ways to get it back if the wind and water "totes" it off.....🤣


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## Simpleterrier

There are 12000 people in my county. 180 cases total that is from when it began. 140 of the cases have been in nursing homes. So that leaves only 40 people out and about who have had it. To me not very scary the next county over has 10 cases. Stores are well stocked just a limit mask are optional. Churches are opening up with spaced out seating. I still ask everyone I see and I have a few friends who have started to now also, if they know of anyone directly who has had it. I have asked tons of people and only one has said yes they know 3 people. And they couldn't confirm if those had been tested or if they just thought they had it.

So I'll ask all of you do u personally know of anyone who has it and has been tested?

And that is not my cousins wife's brothers bosses cowerkers dog has it. But actual my wife had it or son or best friend.

Our governor has cut the school budget and is talking of 2 days of school next year a week with the other days learning from home. I told my wife 2 yrs ago before my son started kindergarten that our kids would probably graduate from online school.

This whole thing is a joke.
It's all political.
The worst for me is what people are doing and asking doesn't make sense.
I'm embarrassed to say we all got douped. And the government is trying to gain from it now 😡 or cover their butts from over reacting.

I don't need people to try and explain what the gov was doing. I understand it. There just isn't any proof in my area that it is even real.

My church is 450 people I asked the pastor if anyone from church had it or if he knew of anyone ( he knows a lot of people and is part of many boards ) he said he knew of no one that had it.


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## Mike CHS

We are very rural and I don't know of anyone who knows anyone who has had the virus. We live on a county line and the county north of us has 3 cases and the county south of us has zero.


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## Jesusfreak101

No one i know personally however my aunt is an nurse practioninor and has her own clinic and they seen five that i know of that were positive. But that was a while ago.


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## rachels.haven

Yes, I wish people would stop asking. I know PERSONALLY people who have had it and are now dead. Gone. Never coming back. Good bye.

Coronavirus is no joke and science is not political. The virus has no politics, takes no prisoners, and isn't intelligent. It's a disease, just like the ones we deal with in our animals and we need to handle it well and practice good biosecurity or we will pay many times over with our lives, the lives of our children, and the lives of our loved ones.


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## rachels.haven

And the person who died was republican, if that matters to you. The disease doesn't care. For the sake of stopping it we shouldn't either.


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## B&B Happy goats

My neighbor went to a church membes funeral yesterday...he died  from the virus,  three other members of the church have it now, .... yes it's  real in our little rural county and spreading fast...


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## Ridgetop

Future DIL's grandfather had it.  We know him personally.  BUT he had tuberculosis as a young man, and had a lot of lung scarring and fibrosis.  he was at great risk and had been in hospital with pneumonia countless times.  When he caught it he was placed on a ventilator but couldn't recover  FDIL's sister and great aunt tested positive, had it and survived without hospitalization.  Her parents, other siblings, all living in same house were tested and did not catch it. In case anyone is believing that it targets people by race (not sure on that), the family are Philipino.  

DH and I are waiting for our antibody test to come back.  

However, this is not the worst disease to ever hit the planet.  Polio was bad, smallpox was bad, this disease is bad.

BTW, we have now been told that we can go to the beach.  The parking lots are closed and locked so where do you park to access the open beaches?   We must wear masks except when actually swimming AND no one is allowed to *sit *on the beach or *stand* there admiring the view.  You must be walking running, swimming, playing games, or some other activity.  

AND YOU CAN ONLY DO THAT ON *WET* SAND!  YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WALK ON *DRY* SAND! SO HOW DO YOU GET TO THE WET SAND?         FLY?!


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## Baymule

@Ridgetop we are laughing at the utter stupidity of your governor, or is it local mayor? Either way, somebody is a corpse short of a full morgue. Gheesh what a dumb donkey! (I’m sorry little donkeys—didn’t mean to insult donkeys by comparing them to brain dead, lobotomized politicians)


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## Bunnylady

Oh, we been there, done that on the closed parking/open beaches business, including the can't sit, must keep moving (but can't even bring a towel with you).

But the wet sand/dry sand thing? Most states divide the part of the beach that belongs to the public from the land that is privately owned at the mean high tide line - in other words, the point at which the sand is wet vs dry. The wet part is the public beach. The dry part technically belongs to the property owner whose yard it is adjacent to; if that property owner is OK with you being there, fine, but the governor isn't going to give you permission to trespass on private property.


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## Ridgetop

This is not private property.  These are the public beaches with no private housing on the dry part.  You have to cross the dry sand (a lot of it) to get to the wet sand.  It is our mayor who has issued this peculiar dictum.  If Covid was shown to cause brain damage you could make a good case for some of the politicians having it.

BTW, apparently Pelosi's dems have passed the 3 trillion "relief" bill in the House.  This is the bill that does everything _*except*_ help people affected by the virus - the working people! Hopefully, the senate will squash it. What are these politicians thinking?


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## Bunnylady

So, this is a park, then? Are parks open, or just the beaches?

I can't say for California, but in North Carolina, only the part below the high tide mark is public beach. Every scrap of land above high tide belongs to_ somebody_, whether an individual, a corporation, the county, the state, whatever. Even the public access points that let you get from wherever you parked to the strand are owned by the city/county, and they can (and do) close them when conditions justify it.


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## farmerjan

They are not thinking, they are trying to ram some more of the "pork" projects down everyone's throats while trying to make it look like it will help the "poor suffering Joe Q public".... and to keep their support for and by the illegals.   The money supporters are trying to get more and more passed with some little crumbs being thrown to the masses.... It is disgraceful and I would just hope that the public AND THE SENATE will see through it and people with even a little common sense will realize that it is just not sensible or doable in the long run.  
I've never in my life seen anything like this.  And do you know that the house does not actually write the bills anymore?  It is done by outside companies then presented for reps to "sign on to".... that is why the "affordable health care act had to be passed.... as she said, pass it and then you can see what is in it....


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## Ridgetop

There are County beaches and state beaches.  People that have homes on the beaches do not own any of the actual beach.  However, you cannot access the beach by walking through their property.  There is lots of public access to the beaches though.  And not much of the California beaches have privately owned homes sitting on them.  Some do in Santa Monica, and certain older communities in the cities, but most of the homes are across the highway from the beaches.  Farther north, the beaches are very rocky and cold.  

It is confusing which person is controlling which beaches, parks, etc.  The governor has oened certain areas, while the mayors have both opened and closed certain areas.  Nobody can be sure which is which at this time.  And since even when they open certain beaches and arks, they have locked the gates into the parking areas and won't let anyone park there.   It is just another way for tin pot dictators to take control of our live.  

Covid may be a bad disease, but most people make the right decisions to protect themselves.  Making those decisions also protects others.  

We can't continue living like this.  Landlords are not collecting any rent, but have to pay mortgages, taxes, and insurance.  Many landlords have saved for years and invested in rentals as retirement income.  One city councilman here in California has already stated that when people lose their properties, or are in danger of losing them, the city should take advantage "of this great opportunity" and buy them up for homeless housing!  

DD2 says that the relief unemployment *is more *than she was earning!  She and Doofus are living with his father ad step mother so don't have any rent to pay.   But the relief bill saying that renters don't have to pay their rent, does not say that the tenant must pay if they are getting relief money, just that they don't have to pay if they are not working because of Covid.  Our tenant in Washington did not pay last month, or this month.  Governor Inslee says he doesn't have to pay if he isn't working.  He is self employed as a contractor.  As far as I know there is no time limit, and we can't evict him.  The only thing saving us t the moment is that we own the house with no mortgage, but the taxes are high, and so is the insurance.   I need to have the chimney swept this summer (another expense)because the tenant was heating using the wood burning stove instead of the electric HVAC.  I have cancelled the pest control since it was $50.00 per month.  But this is income we rely on for our living expenses since we are retired.  He only pays $1000.00 per month and Yelm is an army town with very few rentals available.  We could rent it easily to an army family who could pay the rent.  As it is we are stuck.  We were willing to forego the rent last month because of the virus but not for the next 3-6 months!  

People need to get back to work, They need their jobs back, farmers are dumping milk, foodstuffs, etc. because they can't get them to market or the processing plants are shut down.  If the country doesn't open up the country will be facing a famine and I do not want to borrow Pelosi's 3 trillion dollars for the relief bill from China who I believe deliberately spread this Covid outside China!  Apparently they are demanding that we repay the billions we already owe them because Trump is putting sanctions on them.  I say we sue China here to wipe out our debt because they have caused this world wide collapse.  And you can't say that it is not fair because all of China is not responsible - the communist Chinese government is completely responsible for everything China does.

We need to open the country no matter what.  People at risk can stay home, but not at risk people need to open their businesses and go back to work.


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## farmerjan

Like is not a strong enough way to "comment"  on your post.  I agree that we had better get back to work, and that this has to stop.  Yes I have lost someone dear to me to virus.  But we can't just stay shut down.  
And there is a perfect example of what the "relief" packages are doing.... your own DD2 is making more than when she was working.  Who in the he// is footing all this but the ones of us that are still working, and all the borrowed money from China.... at the rate we are going, we may as well just turn the country over to them because it won't be long and  they will own us anyway.  It is sickening. 

Sad as it is, but maybe we needed this "pandemic"  to thin the population..... except it is not taking the useless non-working on the gov't dole ones...... so the ones that are succumbing to it are the ones that actually contribute to society, or the ones retired that did their part for 30-40-50 years or more. 

I don't know where we go from here, but it is getting to me to see what we are becoming.


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## drstratton

Simpleterrier said:


> There are 12000 people in my county. 180 cases total that is from when it began. 140 of the cases have been in nursing homes. So that leaves only 40 people out and about who have had it. To me not very scary the next county over has 10 cases. Stores are well stocked just a limit mask are optional. Churches are opening up with spaced out seating. I still ask everyone I see and I have a few friends who have started to now also, if they know of anyone directly who has had it. I have asked tons of people and only one has said yes they know 3 people. And they couldn't confirm if those had been tested or if they just thought they had it.
> 
> So I'll ask all of you do u personally know of anyone who has it and has been tested?
> 
> And that is not my cousins wife's brothers bosses cowerkers dog has it. But actual my wife had it or son or best friend.
> 
> Our governor has cut the school budget and is talking of 2 days of school next year a week with the other days learning from home. I told my wife 2 yrs ago before my son started kindergarten that our kids would probably graduate from online school.
> 
> This whole thing is a joke.
> It's all political.
> The worst for me is what people are doing and asking doesn't make sense.
> I'm embarrassed to say we all got douped. And the government is trying to gain from it now 😡 or cover their butts from over reacting.
> 
> I don't need people to try and explain what the gov was doing. I understand it. There just isn't any proof in my area that it is even real.
> 
> My church is 450 people I asked the pastor if anyone from church had it or if he knew of anyone ( he knows a lot of people and is part of many boards ) he said he knew of no one that had it.


My son in law is a PA and he has run tests on several people who have tested positive, this is in Spokane, so not a rural area.  That being said, I also believe that we have been duped and I know that the numbers don't add up! Colorado, just lowered their Covid death count, because the hospitals were counting people who died with Covid from a different cause...ie...heart attack, stroke as having died from Covid!  The numbers are extremely inflated and corrections need to be made to the total count!


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## Baymule

I absolutely agree @Ridgetop.


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## frustratedearthmother

farmerjan said:


> Sad as it is, but maybe we needed this "pandemic" to thin the population..... except it is not taking the useless non-working on the gov't dole ones...... so the ones that are succumbing to it are the ones that actually contribute to society, or the ones retired that did their part for 30-40-50 years or more.


Sooooo, it's okay for the "useless non-working on the gov't dole ones" to be thinned out?   The "useless" ones are still somebody's mother, father, sister, brother.  In fact, my disabled brother is one of those on the dole.  Maybe he should just forget about being a father, grandfather and husband who gives as much of himself as he possibly can to his family and neighbors.  SMH.... this is so screwed up.

What the hell is wrong with having compassion and caring about those "useless" folks.


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## farmerjan

I am not refering to someone who is disabled and still trying to be a contributing member of society.  I am talking about the ones who think they are owed a living, that expect handouts, who are too lazy to work or do something that is positive and contributing in some sort of a positive way.   And if they are drug dealers, and the dregs of the human race, then yes, I think it is okay for them to be thinned out.  If you have ever had anyone murdered by some useless piece of scum,  or had them injured or hurt in ways that there is no way to fix it,  REGARDLESS if they are someone's brother, father, uncle or whatever... then yes, they deserve to be dead.  I have compassion and do alot for people that are less fortunate than I am.  I have stopped thinking that I can help everyone, or that some deserve to be helped.  Let God do the deciding on that.  But I am tired of the feel sorry for all these ones that won't do anything to help themselves after countless chances or "helping hands up"....


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## frustratedearthmother

farmerjan said:


> If you have ever had anyone murdered by some useless piece of scum, or had them injured or hurt in ways that there is no way to fix it, REGARDLESS if they are someone's brother, father, uncle or whatever... then yes, they deserve to be dead.



What makes you think I haven't?

In that case they deserve the punishment set by society.  And, I do believe in the death penalty.  But, to wish someone dead because they are considered useless - is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard. 

You feel it's okay to say what you feel - so do I.


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## Ridgetop

I don't know where you live, but here in Los Angeles area we have homeless people all over living on the streets.  there are places for them to go but those places require drug and alcohol tests to stay there.  Most of these people are addicts who prefer to remain living on the street so they can collect welfare and do their drugs, etc. 

Haven't you heard about San Francisco's "help" for the homeless?  In order to get them to move into SF government homeless housing, they are offering to supply them with booze and drugs.  They already hand out clean needles without question to addicts. 

I don't think Farmerjan is saying that she wants anyone to die.  She is saying - like most of us - that she doesn't want to pay her hard earned money out for the stupid actions our politicians are taking without any authorization by us.  Our Governor Newsom is being sued by a group because he wanted to give several thousand dollars to every illegal alien in the state.  Nothing for citizens but illegals would get all free health care and several thousand dollars!  This was supposedly to help them over the Covid virus.  Let them go home instead.  They are allowed to vote here because we cannot check identities of voters.  This keeps the liberals in power.

There are recall petitions out to recall our governor and also L.A. mayor Garcetti but guess what?  Due to Covid and the government issued quarantine and social distancing no one can get a copy to sign!  They cant get authorization to send it out by email because to do that they have to have the government allow it!

It is not  matter of wishing anyone to die, it is a matter of people having to survive.  The government wants to put us all on subsidies because that way they can control us.  Working people want to work, store and business owners want to run their businesses and pay their employees.


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## farmerjan

Thank you @Ridgetop for putting into words some of what I am feeling.  Sometimes I am not very tactful.  I am tired of feeling like I am supposed to take care of everyone else, but when I want to take care of myself and "my own" it is not allowed or not "fair", or uncaring or whatever....


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## frustratedearthmother

Adversity and stress can certainly bring out the worst in folks.  And with that - I'm outta here.  You folks can keep on spewing hate  - I'll take a pass!


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## Mike CHS

I really hate to see this happen.  Written word on the internet has caused so many disconnects.


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## drstratton

Mike CHS said:


> I really hate to see this happen.  Written word on the internet has caused so many disconnects.


It truly can, this is sad!


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## Baymule

frustratedearthmother said:


> Adversity and stress can certainly bring out the worst in folks.  And with that - I'm outta here.  You folks can keep on spewing hate  - I'll take a pass!


I think what is going on here is more frustration with politicians than anything else. Bad laws and policies have led to rampant homelessness, drugs, things that nobody wants in their towns and cities. Instead of thinning out the herd, maybe thin out the politicians? (this is meant as a joke, ok, maybe a bad joke, but I have a streak of dark humor) 

We as a nation, cherish the least among us. There are so many people with compromised health. This is why we have taken so many precautions that are quite restrictive. Some officials have gone too far overboard, swollen heads of their own importance and power over others. Other officials have used good sense, trying to strike a balance of keeping people safe, and letting the economy start back up before the country crashes in the worst depression the world has ever seen. 

This is a virus. It is an insidious virus, it is sneaky, infected people shed the virus, sickening others for weeks before they themselves even know they are sick. We need to not lose sight of this fact. Some never even show symptoms. Some get deathly ill, but recover, albeit slowly, but they recover. Some die. Covid-19 is no respector of persons. 

Whether you "know" anybody that has had Covid-19 or not, whether you believe the conspiracy theories swirling about or wherever it came from, the absolute truth is that this virus is real. It is a threat to the world population, just as much as any other pandemic of times past. It is a threat to healthy people, not just the unhealthy and/or elderly. Let us not argue with one another.

@frustratedearthmother, I truly believe no one here is a hater of anybody. I truly believe no one here wants to see anyone die from this virus. Discussions wander, thoughts come out in various ways, and they sure can strike a nerve. Please don't leave the discussion, we need everyone here.

 We won't all agree all of the time. We are all under some degree of stress due to current conditions. This is tough on everybody, there is not one person in this country that has not been affected in some way, be it as simple as having to wear a mask all the way to having a loved one sicken and die alone in the hospital, watching your business shut down, or losing your job. 

Bottom line is that we now have this virus. Whatever your feelings or beliefs, it is here and it is real.


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## Simpleterrier

So where does helping people come from?  Do u think it's from evolution? Did we just happen to evolve morals and values one day? Just some thoughts.

By the way Bible sales are at an all time high.


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## drstratton

Simpleterrier said:


> So where does helping people come from?  Do u think it's from evolution? Did we just happen to evolve morals and values one day? Just some thoughts.
> All very good questions!!!
> 
> By the way Bible sales are at an all time high.
> This is awesome!


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## farmerjan

@frustratedearthmother , you have been on here a lot longer than I have so I bow out to your seniority and value of  past contributions.  Hope that you all stay well there with this horrific virus and situation.


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## Simpleterrier

So for those of u who think we evolved if two people make a baby while wearing mask will the baby be born with a mask??


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## Ridgetop

Simpleterrier said:


> So where does helping people come from? Do u think it's from evolution? Did we just happen to evolve morals and values one day? Just some thoughts.



Not everyone has the same moral values or feelings abut helping others.  It all depends on your upbringing and the morals of your society.  It also depends on your own life experiences.  Kindness must be taught.

Early tribal people made sure that the old and helpless were fed but also abandoned old and infirm relatives when they could no longer travel with the group.  In their society at that time period it was necessary for the survival of all.  In times of plenty people cared for orphans and the helpless.  In times of famine many people starved, unfortunately the helpless first.  In past centuries the churches and religious orders, not the government, cared for the indigent and helpless and dispensed charity.  Moral values must be taught, the least kind people are small children.   Unless they are taught kindness, small children are selfish and ruthless. Just see if a 2 year old wants to share unless he is made to "play nice"!  LOL

It is only in the last 100 years that we see it as a duty for the government to care for the indigent.  People now expect the government to care for them.  Sadly, this mind set releases them from being responsible for their own welfare.  We can all see the results of that irresponsibility.

There is no point in getting angry at someone who expresses feelings you don't agree with.  There is no morality in feelings, only in the actions one takes based on those feelings.


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## rachels.haven

Went to a big Market Basket grocery store yesterday. I fear our area will be the first for round 2 (stay away from the Boston area!). Not a lot of space between people despite employees best efforts and a group of young men behind me verbally abused the petite older cashier woman for a long time until they left when she asked them to please stand on their line. She was terrified and shaking under her mask as they trashed her to the whole store. There is a lot of that attitude here. It's like they've forgotten the morgue trucks that were parked outside of their hospitals waiting for them or the cashier who works directly with hundreds of people daily to fall ill and not recover. I know they're in a hurry and think they're great, but "protect front line workers"?. We all need our groceries! Give someone's grandmother (or friend or spouse or sister) her space!!!

I hope warm weather helps. We're just barely warming up now. We all need a break.
From what I hear Boston is still not doing great and doubly needs that break.


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## Baymule

I don’t think I could have stayed quiet with loud mouth morons like that picking on someone whose job depended on her not defending herself. I can’t stand rude people who talk on their phone while their groceries are being checked out, like the person waiting on them is a non entity. I have been known to call them out on it and shame them. It costs nothing to be polite, it costs nothing to give a smile to those who serve us.


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## B&B Happy goats

I have to wonder at people's reactions to this pandemic with all their complaining about "the inconveniences  to their normal life" ...how on earth would this country react to a missile dropping on their heads ?
Americans are spoiled complainers when their luxuries  of daily life are interrupted,  try living in another country...I guarantee  you will kiss the American ground we stand on when your plane lands, I know I have  !
This pandemic  is a good learning tool for the majority of people who are in the routine of "easylife" , it's  time for everyone to become less dependent on the system, and more dependent  on themselfs....and WE on BYH should be setting a good example by NOT complaining and offering helpful information  for others to learn from... you can't  blame everything on the politics...our actions speak louder than any spoken words, if you don't  like what is going on then get up and get active in helping change happen.....griping about it does nonthing ....


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## rachels.haven

I know. I can't get her eyes out of my head. I thought about saying something. I almost did. I wish they had a security person that day. That man and his friends needed to be thrown out.


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## Bunnylady

rachels.haven said:


> a group of young men behind me verbally abused the petite older cashier woman




Yeah, yeah, yeah, guys, I get it. Your lives are crap right now. But you know what? All of ours are; dumping on someone else doesn't make yours any better, and makes hers a whole lot worse. It's times like these that give us the opportunity to show what we truly are inside, and if that's what you are made of, I feel sorry for you.

I think it was Robin Williams that observed that "humor is pain turned outward." Laughter is probably the best stress reliever. So when I'm in a store and the employees ask the inevitable, "so, did you find everything OK?" I usually laugh, but I'm still trying to come up with a good one-liner to make them laugh, too. We all know about the gaps on the shelves; griping won't change that. This "new normal" is stressful for everybody; hopefully it will change for the better soon, but until it does, we all just have to make the best of it.


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## CntryBoy777

Bunnylady said:


> So when I'm in a store and the employees ask the inevitable, "so, did you find everything OK?" I usually laugh, but I'm still trying to come up with a good one-liner to make them laugh, too.


I have 2 that I have used and gotten laughs from...1)..it is knda difficult to find it on an empty shelf....and...2)...naw, I just couldn't find the million dollars Anywhere.... 🤣 ....we always try to give them a reason to smile and make their day just a little brighter....no need to add misery to a crazy situation....and can never fault another for doing their job...they are just trying to make it in "life" and don't make the rules or policies, so best to be understanding and lighten the "mood"....that is the way I see it anyway....


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## Ridgetop

Whether we agree with all these rules or not, we should be polite to each other.  There is no reason to be rude to the cashiers and other workers who are just trying to do their jobs.  They are under pressure to work and it is not comfortable trying to breath with those masks in place all day.

I find that while you can't see a smile anymore under the masks, just being cheerful and saying something nice will help brighten their day.  And yours too,


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## Baymule

@Bunnylady Yes I did! I have my basket full of imaginary toilet paper! 

Or.....

Yes! I was looking for bare shelves and thank God, I found lots of them!!

Or...

Yes! I was look for someone to say thanks for all your hard work, and here you are!


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## Bunnylady

I thought about:

Well, I was going to get rice, but all I found back there was 'SPACE .  .  . the final frontier.'

I came looking for inspiration; I found a lot of optimism. I mean, surely all that area reserved for product that isn't here means that someone believes it will be there  . . . someday ("there's a place for Dawn. In aisle 10 a place for Dawn . . . ")  Though I'm not sure even my contemporaries would remember West Side Story.

Or maybe ask if the manager has gone Cinderella - "someday the towels will come, some day the towels will come . . ."


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## Senile_Texas_Aggie

I just found this thread today after seeing it mentioned on Miss @farmerjan's journal.   I only read the past 40 or so posts.  Many have posted wise words, others harsh ones.  I cannot add to what has been said, except I think it is appropriate to quote one of my favorite passages from the Bible, Matthew 25:34-45.  (Some of you know that I am an atheist, not a Christian, but I think this passage has a lot of wisdom in it.  Besides, I think most people on this forum identify themselves as Christian and thus may take heed to this passage).

_34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ 40 And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’ 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ 44 Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’_

I especially like Miss @frustratedearthmother's quote in her signature: "*Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.*" Thank you, Miss FrustratedEarthMother! It is so true.

Senile Texas Aggie


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## frustratedearthmother

I had no intention of posting on this thread again.  I think I've said my piece.  However, since it has been brought up several times I'll try to clarify.  

I vowed some years ago that I would never keep quiet when I am subjected to something that I perceive as so very wrong.  The statement that I responded to was about (and I paraphrase) 'thinning out people that are useless and on the dole.'  To my dying day I will never agree that there are useless people in this world.  There are sick people, there are those in need of healing, love, help and understanding.  There are NO useless people.  

The statement was made:  _If you have ever had anyone murdered by some useless piece of scum, or had them injured or hurt in ways that there is no way to fix it, REGARDLESS if they are someone's brother, father, uncle or whatever... then yes, they deserve to be dead._

And this is exactly why I will always speak up.  I lost my sister because no one spoke up when they saw wrongs being committed.  But, the person who committed the wrong doing has rehabilitated themselves through great effort on his part.  The hardest thing I've ever done in my life was to forgive that person.  It didn't absolve him from responsibility, but it allowed me to be able to move on.

I regret that my response was hurtful to Farmer Jan.  I don't think in any way that she is a terrible person.  She has a wealth of knowledge that she shares freely with people on the forum.    

I'll end this (and any more responses on this thread) by repeating an oft used quote:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

That is in no way directed toward any person - it is simply the way I choose to live my life.


----------



## Ridgetop

Friday before Memorial Day. Everything is closed., except for those necessary stores like liquor and marijuana. Not allowed to pray in church, but I _can_ get an abortion since that is considered necessary. Apparently, the only place you can catch Covid is* in* church since tons of people are willing to stand in line for hours to access the local Walmart!

Luckily, I don’t need a knee replacement any more thanks to 8040.    My kneecap has remained back in place and my knee is bending properly again. I am carefully exercising the knee to encourage muscle strength to keep it there. And only public figures like mayors, senators, and such are *allowed* to get haircuts and mani-pedis. Luckily, my nail salon owners are tired of staying home. I was allowed to come to the shop. I remained in my car until the all clear was phoned to me. Then I hightailed it in wearing my disguise. Since I don’t own a burka, I had to make do with a head scarf wound around my face like a hajib. I wore my dark glasses. No police in sight although I had my cover story ready. If the police had tried to accost me, I would tell them my name was Ajibi Hamid, a faithful daughter of Allah and demand that they not touch me! My 2 friends (we have become friends and I had really missed seeing them and laughing with them) enjoyed my disguise and had a good laugh.

On the sad end of Covid, DD1 and her family have been attending a local karate dojo for about 12 years. They have a family membership. Many people belong with family memberships, and there are a lot of families. The dojo is very family oriented and they are all friends there. The sensei is a great guy. We have met him many times and he works with the kids and the families in a very wholesome way. He is going out of business due to not being able to open up again. He relies on his summer camp program to make ends meet in his business and he can’t hold it this year. So, good-bye to another small family owned business that was good for the community. Thank you, Governor Newsom.   

On the other hand, DD1 and her husband have gone entirely off the deep end about this virus. DS2 thought we might go over this weekend and have a BBQ, just the family. Apparently, we are not welcome there. DH called ad asked that the grandchildren to come over to work for us (picking up the trash that seems to accumulate in our field, hay ropes, broken bits of pipe, old nails, bits of paper, etc. This stuff either blows in, is uncovered as the animals and rains wash layers of dirt away, or is brought up by the dogs from the old trash burning area in the gully from 75 years ago. The grandchildren are not allowed to go inside our house, they are not allowed to touch us, nor can we touch them. They have to remain 6’ away from us at all times. DD1 and SIL are positive that their children can get the disease from us because DS2 goes out to work, DS1 goes to the store for us, and we get deliveries.     😷

Our DIL posted the new requirements for school children when school reopens. Apparently, the persons determining these new requirements have never had to care for children, have no children, and possibly have never seen a child.     These ruels are for all grades from preschool through high school.

All children over the age of 2 years must wear masks.  _(Yeah right!  That teacher is going to spend all her/his time reattaching the child's mask.  That is, if he/she can find where the child has hidden it!)_

No one is to share toys.  _(Most small children *don't want to share their toys,* but isn't that what they are supposed to be learning in preschool and kindergarten?)_

Each child must remain 6’ apart from any other child or the teacher. _ (How is that supposed to work I wonder?  If the child falls down and gets a boo boo will they don a haz mat suit to staunch the blood and tears?)_

The same teacher must remain with the children all day. _(No lunch or potty breaks for the teacher I guess.  Better learn to hold it - I can see the Worker's Comp cases starting for all the bladder and kidney infections coming now.)_

No school lunches, and the cafeteria must remain closed.  _(Weren't we told that all those free lunches for underprivileged kids were necessary since they might be the only decent meal the children got that day?  Were we lied to?!)_

No free play in case the children get too close to each other _(Recess is a thing of the past? Maybe they will goosestep the children around the playground and call it phys ed!)_

Only 10 – 12 desks will be able to be fitted in classrooms to obey the new social distancing rules. (_They don’t even have enough teachers now to limit class size to *30* students, let alone a class consisting of 10 students and a teacher that is dancing in place because she can't go to the potty after her morning coffee!)_

DIL says she may have to home school her kids. As a former preschool teacher, the reason preschool was touted as being beneficial, and the reason for Head Start programs, was that children need to learn socialization skills early so they can learn how to communicate, share, and interact properly with others. These new school rules will raise a whole generation of antisocial psychopaths, with no idea of social behavior. There is a syndrome in infants called Failure to thrive that has been traced not receiving the human interaction they need to grow. Failure to Thrive results in a child that has no interest in eating, speaking, crawling, or having any communication with others. Children *need* interaction with other children in their age group as well as other children of other age groups and other adults besides their own parents.

*I AM SOOOO TIRED OF THE PHRASE  "THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL"!   We need to use our common sense, go back to church, and let our grandchildren hug us again!*


----------



## Jesusfreak101

thats alot to take in ridge.


----------



## Ridgetop

Just got to keep praying and laughing . . . .


----------



## rachels.haven

...that is not going to work in regards to school kids. That will be just chaos and eventually sick chaos. Wow. Bum covering with teachers and students on the chopping block. School is a petri dish. The kids and teachers don't stand a chance-at learning or not getting sick (or not getting socially stunted). I hope they change their minds. At least at home kids can have normal facial expressions and reasonable expectations for behavior.


----------



## Ridgetop

Like I said - have these decision makers even *seen* a real child?  LOL


----------



## Baymule

Ridgetop said:


> Like I said - have these decision makers even *seen* a real child?  LOL



You make me laugh! A disguise to get in a nail salon!


----------



## drstratton

Ridgetop said:


> Friday before Memorial Day. Everything is closed., except for those necessary stores like liquor and marijuana. Not allowed to pray in church, but I _can_ get an abortion since that is considered necessary. Apparently, the only place you can catch Covid is* in* church since tons of people are willing to stand in line for hours to access the local Walmart!
> 
> Luckily, I don’t need a knee replacement any more thanks to 8040.    My kneecap has remained back in place and my knee is bending properly again. I am carefully exercising the knee to encourage muscle strength to keep it there. And only public figures like mayors, senators, and such are *allowed* to get haircuts and mani-pedis. Luckily, my nail salon owners are tired of staying home. I was allowed to come to the shop. I remained in my car until the all clear was phoned to me. Then I hightailed it in wearing my disguise. Since I don’t own a burka, I had to make do with a head scarf wound around my face like a hajib. I wore my dark glasses. No police in sight although I had my cover story ready. If the police had tried to accost me, I would tell them my name was Ajibi Hamid, a faithful daughter of Allah and demand that they not touch me! My 2 friends (we have become friends and I had really missed seeing them and laughing with them) enjoyed my disguise and had a good laugh.
> 
> On the sad end of Covid, DD1 and her family have been attending a local karate dojo for about 12 years. They have a family membership. Many people belong with family memberships, and there are a lot of families. The dojo is very family oriented and they are all friends there. The sensei is a great guy. We have met him many times and he works with the kids and the families in a very wholesome way. He is going out of business due to not being able to open up again. He relies on his summer camp program to make ends meet in his business and he can’t hold it this year. So, good-bye to another small family owned business that was good for the community. Thank you, Governor Newsom.
> 
> On the other hand, DD1 and her husband have gone entirely off the deep end about this virus. DS2 thought we might go over this weekend and have a BBQ, just the family. Apparently, we are not welcome there. DH called ad asked that the grandchildren to come over to work for us (picking up the trash that seems to accumulate in our field, hay ropes, broken bits of pipe, old nails, bits of paper, etc. This stuff either blows in, is uncovered as the animals and rains wash layers of dirt away, or is brought up by the dogs from the old trash burning area in the gully from 75 years ago. The grandchildren are not allowed to go inside our house, they are not allowed to touch us, nor can we touch them. They have to remain 6’ away from us at all times. DD1 and SIL are positive that their children can get the disease from us because DS2 goes out to work, DS1 goes to the store for us, and we get deliveries.     😷
> 
> Our DIL posted the new requirements for school children when school reopens. Apparently, the persons determining these new requirements have never had to care for children, have no children, and possibly have never seen a child.     These ruels are for all grades from preschool through high school.
> 
> All children over the age of 2 years must wear masks.  _(Yeah right!  That teacher is going to spend all her/his time reattaching the child's mask.  That is, if he/she can find where the child has hidden it!)_
> 
> No one is to share toys.  _(Most small children *don't want to share their toys,* but isn't that what they are supposed to be learning in preschool and kindergarten?)_
> 
> Each child must remain 6’ apart from any other child or the teacher. _ (How is that supposed to work I wonder?  If the child falls down and gets a boo boo will they don a haz mat suit to staunch the blood and tears?)_
> 
> The same teacher must remain with the children all day. _(No lunch or potty breaks for the teacher I guess.  Better learn to hold it - I can see the Worker's Comp cases starting for all the bladder and kidney infections coming now.)_
> 
> No school lunches, and the cafeteria must remain closed.  _(Weren't we told that all those free lunches for underprivileged kids were necessary since they might be the only decent meal the children got that day?  Were we lied to?!)_
> 
> No free play in case the children get too close to each other _(Recess is a thing of the past? Maybe they will goosestep the children around the playground and call it phys ed!)_
> 
> Only 10 – 12 desks will be able to be fitted in classrooms to obey the new social distancing rules. (_They don’t even have enough teachers now to limit class size to *30* students, let alone a class consisting of 10 students and a teacher that is dancing in place because she can't go to the potty after her morning coffee!)_
> 
> DIL says she may have to home school her kids. As a former preschool teacher, the reason preschool was touted as being beneficial, and the reason for Head Start programs, was that children need to learn socialization skills early so they can learn how to communicate, share, and interact properly with others. These new school rules will raise a whole generation of antisocial psychopaths, with no idea of social behavior. There is a syndrome in infants called Failure to thrive that has been traced not receiving the human interaction they need to grow. Failure to Thrive results in a child that has no interest in eating, speaking, crawling, or having any communication with others. Children *need* interaction with other children in their age group as well as other children of other age groups and other adults besides their own parents.
> 
> *I AM SOOOO TIRED OF THE PHRASE  "THIS IS THE NEW NORMAL"!   We need to use our common sense, go back to church, and let our grandchildren hug us again!*


This craziness needs to stop! I'm with you! 💞


----------



## mystang89

Simpleterrier said:


> So I'll ask all of you do u personally know of anyone who has it and has been tested?


No. Also, no one I know, knows someone who has it or has been tested.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

frustratedearthmother said:


> I had no intention of posting on this thread again. I think I've said my piece. However, since it has been brought up several times I'll try to clarify.
> 
> I vowed some years ago that I would never keep quiet when I am subjected to something that I perceive as so very wrong. The statement that I responded to was about (and I paraphrase) 'thinning out people that are useless and on the dole.' To my dying day I will never agree that there are useless people in this world. There are sick people, there are those in need of healing, love, help and understanding. There are NO useless people.
> 
> The statement was made: _If you have ever had anyone murdered by some useless piece of scum, or had them injured or hurt in ways that there is no way to fix it, REGARDLESS if they are someone's brother, father, uncle or whatever... then yes, they deserve to be dead._
> 
> And this is exactly why I will always speak up. I lost my sister because no one spoke up when they saw wrongs being committed. But, the person who committed the wrong doing has rehabilitated themselves through great effort on his part. The hardest thing I've ever done in my life was to forgive that person. It didn't absolve him from responsibility, but it allowed me to be able to move on.
> 
> I regret that my response was hurtful to Farmer Jan. I don't think in any way that she is a terrible person. She has a wealth of knowledge that she shares freely with people on the forum.
> 
> I'll end this (and any more responses on this thread) by repeating an oft used quote:
> "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
> 
> That is in no way directed toward any person - it is simply the way I choose to live my life.



Miss @frustratedearthmother,

I am so deeply touched by your story.  Forgiving the man who killed your sister had to be hard.  I don't know if I could have done that.  That shows just what a wonderful person you are.

I understand why you might not want to post to this thread any more.  I saw this on the Internet yesterday when I was doing research on Dr Dolores Cahill, who appeared in one of the videos posted on this thread.  I will let it speak for itself:






I understand people's frustration with the lockdown.  I am a bit frustrated as well, and I am retired and don't have to go to work!  It is that much harder for folks who need to work to pay bills, which is the vast majority of people.  But we as a society are faced with two choices, both of which are very bad: (1) continue to go on with life as it was before this virus hit, risking getting infected and possibly dying from it, as well as then helping to spread it to family members and others we meet, possibly having them get sick or die, or (2) shelter in place, and having to deal with no income, bills piling up, possibly losing their house, their car, and ending up on the street and STILL ending up getting exposed to the virus.

Some governors are taking the approach that the lesser of the two evils is keeping their states open and let nature take its course.  Others are taking the approach that the lesser of the two evils is to have everyone shelter in place to reduce the spread of the disease but then suffering the economic fallout, such as the man above who lost his business.  Both choices are bad.

But back to your post, Miss @frustratedearthmother, I bow to your commitment to your humanity.  

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## rachels.haven

Why doesnt @Senile_Texas_Aggie have a radio show? That was the most calm, level headed explanation of what's going on that I've heard yet...


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## Simpleterrier

We are all back to normal except mask and social distancing. And our governor said we are doing a swell job and the numbers haven't gone up. Hmm maybe..... Never mind it ain't worth my time. 

Only thing is we don't know what schools are gonna do.


----------



## farmerjan

@Bruce you might be able to see one of the interviews with Prof Dolores Cahill,  on Bit Chute in an interview headlined as "Debunking the Myth".....


----------



## farmerjan

"sorry, Debunking the Narrative" on a Dave Cullen interview.


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

rachels.haven said:


> Why doesnt @Senile_Texas_Aggie have a radio show? That was the most calm, level headed explanation of what's going on that I've heard yet...



Thank you, Miss @rachels.haven.  But that is precisely why I don't have a radio show, because I rarely yell, curse, call others bad names.  What a boring radio show that would be.  (I have been known to yell and curse at "stupid inanimate objects" )



farmerjan said:


> "sorry, Debunking the Narrative" on a Dave Cullen interview.



Thank you, Miss @farmerjan!  I'll have to look up that interview.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## farmerjan

Va governor has decreed that everyone has to wear a mask in public  now..... after he was seen out without one, and then decided that this is the only way to stop this virus.  Which it won't, as it will have to finish running it's course and  we have a better "herd immunity"  built up against it.  So starting Friday, it goes into effect.  
Total control, as we are in the "reopening phase" yet the state is officially still on "shelter at home" until after June 10th.... They can't make up their mind, and they really don't know what they are doing.  Our positive response rate to the numbers of infected,  has continued to go up, partly due to more testing, but also because of the severe "lockdown"  attitudes that has made it worse.  People with compromised immunity should take precautions but those that do not need to get their own immunities built up and that is not with the shelter in place and stay at home narratives.  Why is there so much less death in states that were quick to isolate and protect the populations that were more likely to be affected, the elderly and immunity compromised, and still figured out a way for the people to continue to work and have a life????   Compare NY to FL and the numbers of elderly, total population, total testing, and numbers of positives and numbers o f deaths.

Will they do this with the next flu season and the next corona virus as it mutates...... ?


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

As I mentioned in a post on my journal, I watched two YouTube videos, one for wearing masks and one against.  I don't know anything about either of these two doctors and whether they are knowledgeable or not.  You can make up your own mind:

For wearing a mask:





Against wearing a mask:





Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## rachels.haven

I wear a mask because I have to go out and it's better than nothing, and when I have to go out better than nothing is all I get. Also, it's the law.
I feel bad for the over 60's here. My "better than nothing" is a lot more likely to be a weak line of defense for them. One silver lady who came to buy chickens from me last week had the biggest, thickest, home made mask I'd ever seen and she was a sweet person. If I or another person made her sick and it made the rest of her life shorter or less enjoyable that would be a heartbreaking tragedy, but that's the way it goes so I mask. 

I let her pet my goats through the fence since they shouldn't be covid vectors and it's easy to give people plenty of space outside. She loves standard goats.  

I hate this thing.


----------



## farmerjan

CDC just came out and said that wearing masks may not be necessary, and might even be detrimental the health of healthy people.....

They are going to next say that shutting down hurt more than it helped..........


----------



## mystang89

farmerjan said:


> CDC just came out and said that wearing masks may not be necessary, and might even be detrimental the health of healthy people.....
> 
> They are going to next say that shutting down hurt more than it helped..........


----------



## promiseacres

It's a crap shoot. 
Our county is doing their best so kids can show, it'll be an off the trailer show. 
I am bad at this social distance thing. Wehner Homestead and her hubby came to get a couple of bunnies for their kids, totally forgot and shook hands...


----------



## farmerjan

Screw the social distancing crap.  It is  something that we need to worry about with the people that could be exceptionally vulnerable to, and the rest of us need to continue to have as much exposure to germs and bugs and viruses to keep our immune systems working as good as possible. 
I mean, this corona virus is related to any other corona virus that causes the common cold.  The fact that it looks to definitely be an engineered virus, with the un-natural sequencing inserted into it, just proves it is something that was "planted" and we are going to have to ramp up our own immune systems to be able to fight these things off.  Plus, look at the thousands that have tested positive with no symptoms.... because their bodies have been able to isolate it within and pass it off.  
How many people in the past went to work with flu and cold symptoms?  It was expected that we go to work regardless.  Okay, maybe we need to consider taking off a few days for things like that to prevent spreading the germs when we are at our most contagious.... but this one is SUPPOSED TO BE more contagious before you know you have it?????  So when do you make the decisions when to go to work or  not??????   We cannot put ourselves in a bubble and stop living like they have tried to make us do.......


Anyone see on the "common news stations"  that now the CDC says that wearing masks may not be good for the average healthy person and that it might actually contribute to people getting sick???? 
WOW


----------



## Mini Horses

Since VA says I am required to wear a mask in public, I will.   Only reason that I will.  Supposedly I am at high risk because of  age, also.   What a crock of kraut!


----------



## mystang89

promiseacres said:


> It's a crap shoot.
> Our county is doing their best so kids can show, it'll be an off the trailer show.
> I am bad at this social distance thing. Wehner Homestead and her hubby came to get a couple of bunnies for their kids, totally forgot and shook hands...


Sorry, but when governors start saying that shaking hands is a no go but it's still ok to "shack up" with a stranger at "you own risk" that's when I skip off to Looney town and continue to shake hands with people. You know, the polite things to do. I feel this whole thing has made the entire world into some preppy class drama adventure. And by preppy I don't mean people need to prepare for the worst. I'm talking about that one guy in school who thought he was too good for everyone else and always ran his hands through his hair because it needed fluffing.

Onto what @farmerjan said about the masks being bad because people wear them all the time. My wife told me that one of our friends child recently had to go to the hospital for a severe respiratory issue. The hospital tested her for covid of course but it was negative. I forget the name of the problem but the doctor himself even said it was because she was wearing the mask all day.
So, do I know anyone who had covid? No. Do I know anyone who knows anyone who had covid? No. Do I know someone who's gone to the hospital because of the "safety" procedures to save you from covid? Yep. And now they are talking about making children wear the masks all day in school when it comes back in session. Reason #3851 why homeschooling is better.


----------



## farmerjan

THANK YOU  @mystang89


----------



## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> The fact that it looks to definitely be an engineered virus, with the un-natural sequencing inserted into it, just proves it is something that was "planted"




The only thing this proves is that, no matter how many times people who actually know what they are looking at and know what they are talking about say it isn't true, there will always be people who are going to continue to believe and repeat misinformation. The life cycle of a virus itself creates an environment in which mutation is bound to happen, easily and frequently. The fact that SARS-CoV-2 isn't 100% identical to the form that was identified in Chinese bats a few years ago just means that it has done what virtually all living things do, given a little time - change. There is nothing unnatural about that. In fact, it has done some changing just in the few months since it was first identified in humans - checking the genetic makeup of samples taken from COVID 19 patients have shown that, while the earliest  infections in this country came from China, there were subsequent introductions from Europe.

Sadly, the tests that are being used to diagnose COVID 19 infections are not entirely reliable. There are lots of false positives and false negatives. The antibody tests are even less reliable, but in the mad scramble to get some kind of a handle on this situation, they are all we have right now, so they are being used in the hope that at least some of the time, the results they give will be correct.

Whether you know anyone who has had COVID 19 at this time or not is pretty irrelevant - we have done such an abysmal job of containment, sooner or later, you will. It's been running rampant through cities all over the country, and is now working its way into more rural populations. So don't feel left out, it will be knocking on your door soon enough. Do you realize that, though the U.S. only has a little more than 4% of the world's population, we have had more than 25% of the to-date-confirmed COVID deaths? "Embarrassing" doesn't begin to cover that. We all just have to hope that we won't be like that 23-year-old nurse in Charlotte who probably caught it at work, and who died in spite of not having any kind of pre-existing health condition.  And now we are learning that,  though rare, there is an inflammatory syndrome that has been identified as being connected to COVID 19 infection, and which may turn up anytime within 2 months after a child has apparently recovered. So if a child has even what looks like a cold, the parents need to monitor for the symptoms of_ that, _just in case their child really has an unrecognized case of COVID 19.

Frankly, the idea of _anyone_ wearing a mask all day long fills me with horror; how anyone could even think you could do that with children goes beyond my comprehension. But since hand washing seems to be such a rare behavior in the population in general, and touching one's own face is such a universal habit, I guess a mask is less obnoxious than tying their hands so they can't physically reach their face.


----------



## rachels.haven

No kid of mine will go to school to wear a mask all day and sit in a closed room together in a big group so they can all wait together to get sick. That is impractical and not going to realistically happen. Online and correspondence schools exist for a reason. We as a country need to use them now...unless were too thick to see that. My kids can hardly wear a shirt all day, forget a mask. And my kids are about the same as the next ones in that regard.
Fortunately (?) we are in one of the harder hit areas, so I don't think we'll have to worry. I have my doubts that they will have in building school until this finishes and is either preventable or curable.


----------



## mystang89

Bunnylady said:


> The only thing this proves is that, no matter how many times people who actually know what they are looking at and know what they are talking about say it isn't true, there will always be people who are going to continue to believe and repeat misinformation.



I've always been curious about this. When you have one group of experts says one thing and then a second group says a second thing which one is then considered "misinformation" and how do you sort it out?



Bunnylady said:


> Whether you know anyone who has had COVID 19 at this time or not is pretty irrelevant - we have done such an abysmal job of containment, sooner or later, you will.



Yes, I agree. They've already said that there WILL be a second wave worst than the first. I don't know about doing a bad job of containment since, at least in my case, I haven't seen any of it so for me the containment seems well done. I mean, at least here, the entire state was contained. Yes, this was done after people had come down with this but I never knew the H1N1 version of the flu, which everyone seemed to worry so much about back when it was a huge hit, cause containment.

Future will tell I suppose. I 100% after that people should use common sense. Way your hands etc. That's like people who milk animals not washing things afterwards and then wondering why they come down with some sickness.


----------



## SpaceBus

Even livestock forums are not immune to divisive misinformation it seems. Don't fight with people that don't think the virus is serious or vice versa. Everyone needs to look out for their own family and do what they think is best. My family is staying home as much as humanly possible and we wear N95 masks or full half respirators when going into public for necessary groceries and supplies, which we pick up curb side of course. Folks in our community think we are crazy, but I don't care. We are doing our best to not get the virus, because regardless of statistics or experts, it's not good. Disney doesn't close for just no reason.


----------



## mystang89

I'm not sure what you mean by people fighting here. I thought it was simply sharing different ideas with each other and getting the other side. Just because 2 people have different opinions doesn't mean it gets nasty and from what I've seen people have stayed quite civilized and respectful. If they haven't then I missed those posts.


----------



## Ridgetop

No worries here in Los Angeles about the Covid - instead we are having riots and the looting.  We watched the looting going on in all the upscale areas and stores last night!  Very well planned out with SUVs following the looters who ran out with armloads of merchandise from high end stores and electronic stores and loaded them int the backs of late model  SUVs!  The SUVs - with their license plates either covered up with paper, or removed - then drove off while another SUV arrived to take their place.  These are not just poor people carried away by grief or outrage at injustice.  There is some definite planning going on here with this looting.   The shopping areas that were invaded and looted were stores like Gucci's and Neiman Marcus in Beverly Hills, etc.  Looters targeted other high end malls in affluent neighborhoods.  The people breaking into the stores were all in black and armed with hammers to open the premises for the looters.  The newscaster identified most of those people as Antifa members.  Those people broke into the stores but did not enter - they went on to the next one to open it for the looters.  

The mayor of Santa Monica, a super liberal stronghold, had a very hard time in his public announcements asking people to go home and stop looting.  First he announced that the city sympathized with the rioters but then he asked them POLITELY not to ransack his town!  Had to laugh at the liberals getting the short end and not able to excuse it!  Beverly Hills and the Wilshire District also looted along with other affluent areas in surrounding towns.    
Newscasters were interviewing people that said they came from out of town, some even out of state, "to lend their support" to what was supposed to be a peaceful protest.   Some of the peaceful protestors linked arms in front of small stores to help the owners protect their premises.  Some looters gave them the go by, others pushed them out of the way and broke into the shops.  What wasn't stolen was totally trashed and destroyed.  The National Guard was called out.  One looter was caught, cautioned and let go because the police department in Santa Monica refused to arrest and hold anyone in the jails because "they might catch Covid"!  LOL  

Los Angeles County was preparing for its first day of actual shopping in months and the looters and rioters completely destroyed everything.  Some wore masks, probably not to avoid spreading Covid, but to avoid detection.  Others had no masks.  And there was  certainly no social distancing!

FDIL's boss is married to a Sheriff and she texted all the employees to stay home today.  (It was supposed to be a school day to close down the premises for the summer.)  Her boss' husband told her that the intelligence received through police informers is that the rioters/looters are going to start trashing and invading neighborhoods today.  Most of the neighborhoods will be Beverly Hills, etc. and other high income areas.   

The rioters broke into a bank, a post office, and the DMV.  These are now federal crimes.  Several groups were seen trying to break into ATM machines.  When they couldn't get them open they just put them into vehicles and drove them away.

No worries that they will come out here.  If they do, the only area with more guns per capita is East Los Angeles! Not enough police to control these agitators.   National Guard are trying but can't use force so . . . . ?  LOL  
Covid is on its own here - I hope all thee rioters get  nice big case of Coronavirus!


----------



## drstratton

i


Ridgetop said:


> No worries here in Los Angeles about the Covid - instead we are having riots and the looting.  We watched the looting going on in all the upscale areas and stores last night!  Very well planned out with SUVs following the looters who ran out with armloads of merchandise from high end stores and electronic stores and loaded them int the backs of late model  SUVs!  The SUVs - with their license plates either covered up with paper, or removed - then drove off while another SUV arrived to take their place.  These are not just poor people carried away by grief or outrage at injustice.  There is some definite planning going on here with this looting.   The shopping areas that were invaded and looted were stores like Gucci's and Neiman Marcus in Beverly Hills, etc.  Looters targeted other high end malls in affluent neighborhoods.  The people breaking into the stores were all in black and armed with hammers to open the premises for the looters.  The newscaster identified most of those people as Antifa members.  Those people broke into the stores but did not enter - they went on to the next one to open it for the looters.
> 
> The mayor of Santa Monica, a super liberal stronghold, had a very hard time in his public announcements asking people to go home and stop looting.  First he announced that the city sympathized with the rioters but then he asked them POLITELY not to ransack his town!  Had to laugh at the liberals getting the short end and not able to excuse it!  Beverly Hills and the Wilshire District also looted along with other affluent areas in surrounding towns.
> Newscasters were interviewing people that said they came from out of town, some even out of state, "to lend their support" to what was supposed to be a peaceful protest.   Some of the peaceful protestors linked arms in front of small stores to help the owners protect their premises.  Some looters gave them the go by, others pushed them out of the way and broke into the shops.  What wasn't stolen was totally trashed and destroyed.  The National Guard was called out.  One looter was caught, cautioned and let go because the police department in Santa Monica refused to arrest and hold anyone in the jails because "they might catch Covid"!  LOL
> 
> Los Angeles County was preparing for its first day of actual shopping in months and the looters and rioters completely destroyed everything.  Some wore masks, probably not to avoid spreading Covid, but to avoid detection.  Others had no masks.  And there was  certainly no social distancing!
> 
> FDIL's boss is married to a Sheriff and she texted all the employees to stay home today.  (It was supposed to be a school day to close down the premises for the summer.)  Her boss' husband told her that the intelligence received through police informers is that the rioters/looters are going to start trashing and invading neighborhoods today.  Most of the neighborhoods will be Beverly Hills, etc. and other high income areas.
> 
> The rioters broke into a bank, a post office, and the DMV.  These are now federal crimes.  Several groups were seen trying to break into ATM machines.  When they couldn't get them open they just put them into vehicles and drove them away.
> 
> No worries that they will come out here.  If they do, the only area with more guns per capita is East Los Angeles! Not enough police to control these agitators.   National Guard are trying but can't use force so . . . . ?  LOL
> Covid is on its own here - I hope all thee rioters get  nice big case of Coronavirus!


It's absolutely crazy and it's definitely well organized! So glad to hear that you and yours are safe!


----------



## mystang89

Glad your safe too. I'm fine with organized protests. That's in the constitution, but those rioters are giving a bad name to the people who actually believe in what they are standing up and protesting for.


----------



## Baymule

Oh my! These Antifa people are taking full advantage of this sad situation to loot, steal and destroy.


----------



## drstratton

Ridgetop said:


> The worst of it is that people that were totally horrified by the Floyd killing, and supported the peaceful protestors are now turning against the looters.  The Floyd protestors are getting tarred by the same brush as Antifa.  That is not fair at all since the Floyd killing deserves everyone's outrage.   That police officer had been on the Minneapolis PD for over 19 years and had multiple complaints of excessive force and brutality against him!  He had not been disciplined for this!  Why not?!  Liberal democrat governments seem to be the ones most involved in this sort of killing.  Does this say something about the liberal democrats and their supposed concern for minorities?!
> 
> Mr. Floyd's brother was on TV telling people to stop looting and be peaceful.  He was more angry at the looters than anyone else.  Unfortunately they did not pay any attention to him.
> 
> The closest the riots have gotten to us is about 10 miles away in Van Nuys.  That is in the  middle of the San Fernando Valley.  We are in the northeast end into the foothills.  There are only 2 main streets coming in here so not too easy to get to our little town.  High fences, big dogs and plenty of ammo.  No problem.  Although why Antifa would want to steal a flock of sheep beats me!   Maybe they want to have a BBQ with the fires they are setting.


I hope they don't come any closer to your home!  Stay safe!!!


----------



## Mini Horses

I will assume that "Antifa" is a known & organized "gang/cartel/or such"?

I'm East coast....none here & don't sound wanted, either.


----------



## drstratton

Mini Horses said:


> I will assume that "Antifa" is a known & organized "gang/cartel/or such"?
> 
> I'm East coast....none here & don't sound wanted, either.


I just looked at an article talking about Antifa in Manhattan!  They are spread clear across the US!  Mostly in big cities for now!


----------



## farmerjan

@Mini Horses the Antifa groups are everywhere.  They are part of the mess that was in Charlotesville.  They are an anti - facist militant group that goes against most "right wing"  politics... but it seems they are really more of a terrorist minded organization as they get into anything that seems to get ugly like the rioting, looting, shootings..... I haven't studied up on them but they are pretty extreme.


----------



## Baymule

Last week BJ went to the doctor for lab blood draw. I couldn't go in, we had to sit in the car until they called him to come in. Today we go get results. It will probably be the same thing. We will have our masks on, sanitizer and wipes. I have a go to town bag that I keep that stuff in.


----------



## drstratton

Last December my mom fell and broke her hip and had to have surgery!  She had just gotten back home with my sister in CA after spending a couple of months at my home, she didn't even make it in the door when it happened! I flew down and helped get her settled into the rehab facility. She just had a 2nd surgery and they had to replace the hip as her bones were to soft to hold the screws from the first surgery!  I can't even go down and see her...she's back in rehab and there are no visitors allowed!  My sister said she is so tiny and frail, she's 4'9"... this has really set her back, I'm afraid that I might not get to see her again, but I'm praying that she will bounce back, she's one of the strongest women I know! She just turned 89 on the 24th of May! I'm glad that the rehab center is taking such good precaution with our precious elderly family members, but it's hard to not be able to go down there and be with her!


----------



## Mini Horses

Well -- guess that shows ya how "safely home"  I am  since I never heard of Antifa.  Need to get out more?    Nope.

Familiar with Charlottesville mess, not the name.


----------



## Mike CHS

Everything I read says Antifa is the same type of people over the years only using a different name.  Go back a ways and they were Acorn, a little farther back and they were Occupy Wallstreet.  Several more names going back to the 40's if not earlier.


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## Baymule

Oh @drstratton I pray for your mom’s recovery. This Covid 19 is robbing us of those precious last moments with our family members. I pray that you see your Mom again and get to hug her and tell her you love her.


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> Everything I read says Antifa is the same type of people over the years only using a different name.  Go back a ways and they were Acorn, a little farther back and they were Occupy Wallstreet.  Several more names going back to the 40's if not earlier.


Hmmm.... what was that connection with our former president and Acorn?


----------



## drstratton

Baymule said:


> Oh @drstratton I pray for your mom’s recovery. This Covid 19 is robbing us of those precious last moments with our family members. I pray that you see your Mom again and get to hug her and tell her you love her.


Thank you so much for this...you can't see me, but know that you have touched my heart deeply!  I hope I get to see her soon too!  My sister is planning on moving to WA, so we can both be with her!  Hopefully that day will come!


----------



## Baymule

Baymule said:


> Hmmm.... what was that connection with our former president and Acorn?



I looked it up, he was a community organizer in Chicago. Acorn became known for voter fraud among other things.


----------



## Nifty

Hey all, we know these are tricky (and crazy) times, and there's a LOT of stuff going on in the world and especially in the US right now.

That said, we need to keep politics off BYH. They tend to be way too divisive and lead to contention (and cause way too much stress / work for our team).

Stay healthy and safe!

Thank you!


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> Oh @drstratton I pray for your mom’s recovery. This Covid 19 is robbing us of those precious last moments with our family members. I pray that you see your Mom again and get to hug her and tell her you love her.


X2. My mother fell a few years ago, and totally shattered her upper arm bone. They said there weren't even big enough pieces to put screws into; all they could do was immobilize it and try to encourage the bone to repair itself. It is so hard to see our loved ones robbed of their vigor🥺 I, too, pray that your mother recovers, has her mobility restored, and that you get lots of time with her for years to come!  


Yesterday, North Carolina reported our highest ever single day total of new coronavirus cases, 1,189. Today saw a new record, 1,289, and also the recording of the first pediatric death in the state. For the longest time, the total number of hospitalized COVID 19 patients never exceeded 500, but now the number stands at 717.  This is too soon to only be the after-effects of all these people standing around in the streets and yelling together for hours at a time; we probably won't know the full extent of that for another couple of weeks (though I have noticed that, with the calmer atmosphere of a lot of the protests, more of the people seem to be wearing masks). Some of this is probably a bit of carry-over of people who took a "to heck with social distancing, I'm gonna celebrate" attitude during the Memorial Day weekend. They knew the numbers were bound to go up with an easing of restrictions; I just hope some sort of workable equilibrium is reached before any more businesses go bust.


----------



## Baymule

My husband went for his wellness check up. His doctor is getting tested every week for Covid 19.


----------



## drstratton

Baymule said:


> My husband went for his wellness check up. His doctor is getting tested every week for Covid 19.


I hope he gets a good report! I don't think my Son in law has been tested at all and he tests others, but I'm not 100% certain about that!


----------



## Mike CHS

Baymule said:


> My husband went for his wellness check up. His doctor is getting tested every week for Covid 19.



I was due for the wellness in February but I passed.  At least till this whatever it is slows down.


----------



## drstratton

Bunnylady said:


> X2. My mother fell a few years ago, and totally shattered her upper arm bone. They said there weren't even big enough pieces to put screws into; all they could do was immobilize it and try to encourage the bone to repair itself. It is so hard to see our loved ones robbed of their vigor🥺 I, too, pray that your mother recovers, has her mobility restored, and that you get lots of time with her for years to come!


Thank you so much! 💞   These are difficult times for so many, I know that I am not alone, there are many others dealing with the same thing!  I hope that your mom's arm healed up okay, our bodies can become so very fragile!


----------



## Senile_Texas_Aggie

Nifty said:


> That said, we need to keep politics off BYH. They tend to be way too divisive and lead to contention (and cause way too much stress / work for our team).



Miss @Nifty,

Thank you for posting that.

Senile Texas Aggie


----------



## Baymule

Covid 19 cases are spiking in Texas as well as other states. There are already rumblings of shutting down the country again on the news this morning. I would advise everyone to avoid the rush and stock up on needed items now. At best, there will be plenty and you will have a lot of stuff to use up, feeling maybe a little bit foolish for hitting the panic button. At worst, we will repeat the whole horrible process again, only worse than before. 

On the national news right now, 23 states have rising cases. Hospitalizations in Texas have doubled since May, our governor was just on the news asking people to wear masks to help cut down on the spread of the virus. Ya' think? 

Us, personally, we are working the garden hard this summer. Many of what I have planted is just coming in and I will be busy canning and dehydrating. We put 2 lambs in the freezer and we sold 4 as live, took them with ours and the customers paid the processing. We have 2 pigs going to slaughter August 24, one is pre-sold, which ought to cover the cost of raising ours. We are picking up 30 Cornish Cross chicks August 12, I have 2 different people wanting 14, dressed. They didn't bat an eye when I quoted $6 a pound. Again, that will more than pay for what we keep. We had already raised a spring batch, this is the first time we are raising a fall batch. 

So food wise we have plenty, no worries there, on consumables, we also have plenty. If the country shuts down again, we are prepared. Not to sound like the sky is falling, but are you ready for Round #2?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

It's  really bad here, Florida is getting hammered....my dear neighbor was rushed to the hospital yesterday and is in the heavy hit area, sure hope she doesn't  bring anything home with her as I will be taking care of her when she gets home... we are taking care of the animals and I will be taking extreme caution while I am around her...gloves, mask and bleach......this is going to be very interesting , the poor woman has been so careful  about not getting the virus 😷


----------



## Bunnylady

Hey @B&B Happy goats  - stay safe, OK? And praying for your neighbor.  

The news media love drama, of course, so naturally they are talking about numbers "spiking," but anyone who calls what's happening in North Carolina a "spike" isn't looking at the bigger picture. We've been averaging over 1000 new laboratory-confirmed cases per day for about two weeks. If you just look at the number of positive cases reported each day, there are obvious ups and downs in the numbers, but if you look at the number of completed tests, there are ups and downs when that's graphed out, too, and they are on a 7-day cycle. Clearly, that is influenced by very human factors like who is or isn't open for business on the weekends. Since the peaks and valleys on those two charts match pretty well, it seems to me that the average is a much more reliable indicator than the precise highs and lows on any given days, and the _average_ here has been climbing at a pretty much steady rate since late April. An 8° incline isn't very steep; don't look like much of a spike to me.  As annoying as it may be for most folks, this looks to me like we are still in the upward part of the original curve. We've had "flattening the curve" preached at us to the point of numbness; I reckon we've managed that pretty well. The question remains whether our medical system can manage at whatever level the peak turns out to be, since it appears we haven't reached it yet. There is little doubt that the economy in general and some businesses in particular cannot stand being shut down again, and at this point, it would be rather like locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen. Some businesses are doing temporary shutdowns for a cleaning blitz when a customer or employee tests positive (and doing the contact testing dance too, of course), but a wholesale shutdown isn't likely to happen. Making masks mandatory in public places where social distancing is difficult is being considered by the lawmakers in Raleigh; some municipalities have already put that restriction in place. And the organizer of a protest group called REopenNC has created a "burn your mask challenge" in response.


----------



## promiseacres

I suck at taking videos... we're hoping and planning on doing 4h shows still in person, but have to make videos just in case it changes...  I HATE VIRTUAL


----------



## Baymule

Bunnylady said:


> And the organizer of a protest group called REopenNC has created a "burn your mask challenge" in response.



Thanks for the laugh! Burn your mask!! Hahaha!! It reminded me of Women’s Liberation some 40 or 50 years ago, burning their bras. LOL LOL BURN YOUR MASK!!! Hahaha!!!


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> Thanks for the laugh! Burn your mask!! Hahaha!! It reminded me of Women’s Liberation some 40 or 50 years ago, burning their bras. LOL LOL BURN YOUR MASK!!! Hahaha!!!



It would be even funnier if it weren't true.   I understand; most of the members of the group are people whose livelihoods are being negatively impacted by the restrictions, but with the numbers continuing to climb and hospitalizations at an all-time high, fighting for your "rights" like these folks are seems to me about as bright as a screen door on a submarine.


----------



## Baymule

DH had cataract surgery last year. One of his check ups was postponed due to being in the middle of Covid-19 panic. It was rescheduled to today. We must wear a mask, I have no problem with that. The best place to get sick is a doctor's office or the hospital. LOL LOL


----------



## rachels.haven

Hey, our state just got passed by Texas and Florida. We're 7th instead of 3rd or 4th now, and it looks like our new case and death rates are slowing. Not too shabby...Either that or I guess the other states are becoming really shabby. I wonder if the refrigerated semis they had set up waiting for our bodies are gone yet. Them going would be a relief. They are creepy.


----------



## rachels.haven

Well, looks like I'll be looking for a good, accredited kindergarten and 2nd grade correspondence school come late summer, early fall. Our school district publicly announced at 11 pm last night that they've decided we're in phase two, and that their plan is, as of today to get everyone back in school, with masks only required for 2nd grade and above, and a 3 foot student spacing requirement and lots of rear end covering hand washing and sanitizing surfaces decrees. I see this working for two, maybe three weeks before teachers start falling ill, cases skyrocket (if we still have tests available at all), and family members start dying. So forget the refrigerated morgue trucks going away. I am sorely disappointed in this state. I guess we have plenty more time to get ahead in the numbers before fall, but I am very, very concerned. This state is heavy handed and will likely try to punish us and retaliate in some way for withdrawing the boys. I've got to keep us safe though.

172 new cases, and 48 new deaths in our state yesterday. Federal funding for tests is being slashed. I hope our state can afford it and doesn't start denying test requests again.

Meanwhile TN, where my parents live, are also in phase 2...and their phase two means the schools stay closed.

...I am  Don't mess with my family, and especially DON'T mess with my little kids (who, like all little kids, are like petri dishes, and couldn't wear a mask all day or stay 6 feet from the next kid because they are...little kids, they're barely out of the floor licking phase)


----------



## Baymule

I would imagine that not only you, but a lot of people will be home schooling their kids.


----------



## Mini Horses

Home schooling chores?   I'm so glad mine in way, way beyond that.  DGD heads to college this Fall -- maybe -- if they open.  So far, they say yes.


----------



## Baymule

Good morning y'all. The Sarahan dust cloud bears down on us, the biggest in 50 years. People with respiratory issues are told to stay inside or limit their time outside. We don't have respiratory issues, but don't want any issues, so we will be limiting out time outside starting tomorrow. Boo. Oh well, I can make pickles and can chicken dog food.


----------



## Mike CHS

Again, in the scheme of things this is a minor thing but we just found that electric hair clipper parts are out of stock for the line we have at several vendors. The same replacement line of clippers are also out of stock so I guess that people forced to stay home for months got desperate and decided to cut their own hair.  My wife has been cutting my hair almost as long as we have been together so this isn't a new thing for us.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> We don't have respiratory issues, but don't want any issues, so we will be limiting out time outside starting tomorrow.


I've come down with sinus infection/bronchitis for the last two years when the dust hit - so I'm limiting outside time and wearing a paper dust mask when outside.  With our heat and humidity - that mask is zero fun.


----------



## Baymule

The Sahara dust cloud is supposed to be over us tomorrow, we won't be working outside.


----------



## Simpleterrier

So just an up date a guy from work went to get tested for the antibodies and it came back positive so we are all sure we had it in late January early February or sometime in there. They are also telling us it has been here since December. It's kinda funny y with the protesting the virus disappeared. But now the protests are gone and the virus is back  adder and meaner.


----------



## Baymule

It showed up here in February, pretty sure of that. Our DD was sick, the 2 little girls were sick, we kept them because daycare won't let kids in with a fever. So my husband got real sick but i didn't. Our son is a crane operator, his job ended and he got very sick. Pulling his RV back home, he had to pull over and call his aunt to come get him. A doctor told him that he had a virus, not the flu. So, was it Covid-19?


----------



## farmerjan

Probably was .  One of my dairy farmers said he got very sick about 3 weeks ago.  Said it was pretty rough, all the typical signs.  Took him a week to feel like he was halfway alive.  Said he didn't want to test because he had felt so bad and didn't want to give it to me.  I think I have been exposed a couple places, but have not had any symptoms.  Of course, my allergies to the orchard grass were pretty rough there for a few weeks... but no fever or anything.  It is around and some, like you @Baymule  probably were exposed but didn't have symptoms if you even did have it from being in with the kids and your DH.


----------



## Bunnylady

Simpleterrier said:


> It's kinda funny y with the protesting the virus disappeared.



Of course it didn't disappear, and there was a lot of speculation on just how big the spike would be from all the maskless non-distancing. When the local numbers were increasing a couple of weeks ago, local health officials were saying, "this is too soon to be the result of the protesting, this is the result of  Mother's Day and Memorial Day get-togethers. The people who picked up an infection while protesting will be testing positive a couple of weeks from now." 

But, some people just won't be told.


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> Probably was .  One of my dairy farmers said he got very sick about 3 weeks ago.  Said it was pretty rough, all the typical signs.  Took him a week to feel like he was halfway alive.  Said he didn't want to test because he had felt so bad and didn't want to give it to me.  I think I have been exposed a couple places, but have not had any symptoms.  Of course, my allergies to the orchard grass were pretty rough there for a few weeks... but no fever or anything.  It is around and some, like you @Baymule  probably were exposed but didn't have symptoms if you even did have it from being in with the kids and your DH.


Well I held and rocked those girls like you do with a sick child. Wrap them in love and hold them. BJ got so sick that the doctor gave him a steroid shot, antibiotics shot, prescription for more antibiotics, a sample inhaler and a prescription albuterol inhaler. Even once he "got over" it, he felt like crap for a couple of months, short of breath, when he exerted himself, his chest hurt, he felt bad and had to go sit down. I never slowed down or missed a lick. If I had it, I was asymtomatic. I don't know how I could have been that up close to all those sick people and not caught it.


----------



## Mini Horses

Just thought about this CV!9 affect on me -- I used to get a lot of close dated foods from a source at a wholesale food supplier  (he had a contract to remove it for them & dispose -- animal use, etc).   Now, with food service down or closed, not much overstock      Me & animals are sorry about that.


----------



## farmerjan

For anyone who has ventured onto the sister site SufficientSelf.... please look up the video that @TexasLisa posted by Dr Brian Proctor.... It is another one that I have seen by good ole family practitioners that talks about the protocol that  they have developed for people with the virus, and have had NO HOSPITALIZATIONS or deaths by treating this aggressively and early on.  I have asked her to come on here and post it on this thread or on my journal..... 

Let me tell you, if I get sick and they start to give me a bunch of BS, my butt will be on a plane to TX so fast to one of these drs..... or in a car in a marathon drive because I will not allow them to do this stupid stuff.

But he also mentions the passive immunity thing.  Please, people see this video and realize that these are the kind of drs that see and treat the average everyday joe that gets sick, catches all sorts of stuff.... and knows the real day to day in the trenches stuff.  

Our old family dr managed to save my fathers' life when I was a kid.  He got a blood infection, all the specialists and drs in the hosp couldn't figure it out.  He was very sick and they didn't know what else to do.... our dr. spent time culturing everything he could figure out from the blood samples and finally found something that seemed to slow it... got him on it against the hospitals' advice.... and then managed to culture the very unusual staph infection and got a handle on it and started treating him and he came back home.  They were young, not much money for anything, insurance through work, a couple of little kids with my stay at home mom....  these family general practitioner drs see everything.... they will call a specialist in a heartbeat, but they will also try all of the out of the box stuff they can for the patients that don't have much money, or no ins.... or whatever.


----------



## farmerjan

Just wanted everyone to know that @TexasLisa  has posted that video by Dr. Brian Proctor, on my journal.  Please watch it.


----------



## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> he also mentions the passive immunity thing.



Yes, he does, and his use of the term here is very confused/confusing. You don't give "passive immunity" to another person just by being around them, you have to directly put the antibodies_ into_ them. The typical way of transfer is through colostrum, but that really only works with newborns (though in humans, there is some blood-to-blood transfer across the placenta, too). For anything older than that, you have to extract antibodies from the blood of a previously infected organism, and inject them into the bloodstream of the one you are trying to protect. In either case, it is pretty well understood that this only gives short-term resistance to the recipient; their immune system has to step up and produce its own antibodies, which it may not do (which is one reason why vaccines aren't produced this way).

One of the spooky things about COVID 19 is that people only seem to have a significant number of antibodies for a relatively short period after they recover from the infection. Somebody on another forum was seriously ill in mid-January, and wasn't tested at that time, because nobody thought COVID 19 was here yet. A few weeks ago, they were tested for antibodies, and the result was "inconclusive" (neither a clear negative nor a clear positive). Their doctor said that probably indicated that they had been exposed, but it was too long ago for them to be of any use as a donor. Well, that individual is sick again, and this time, they were tested for COVID 19 and the result of that test was positive . . . does that mean, as some research seems to indicate, that catching SARS CoV 2 only grants you resistance for a few months, after which you can get it again? It is known that with some other coronaviruses, catching them only grants a year or two of resistance, but if people really are again vulnerable to COVID 19 only a couple of _months_ later, "herd immunity" doesn't have a snowball's chance.

Incidentally, Dr. Procter said that SARS and MERS have gone away, and that's not true, particularly in the case of MERS, of which there have been several outbreaks during the years since it was first identified. One of the huge differences between them and the current coronavirus, is that SARS CoV 2 is _extremely_ contagious, while it's comparatively hard to catch SARS and MERS.

Dr. Procter's "shotgun" approach is interesting; I wonder which of the many meds he's using are actually helping. Hydroxychloroquine has been dropped from the WHO's multinational, multi-drug study; according to them, the patients it was given to showed no significant improvement. Azithromycin is an antibiotic (meaning, effective against bacteria, not viruses); while it might be useful against secondary bacterial infections, it wouldn't have any impact on the original infection, which is viral, not bacterial, and like any antibiotic, it does have potential nasty side effects. Losartan is a blood-pressure medication. Zinc has long been credited as an immune-function booster. They keep learning new things about aspirin, and of course, CBD is being touted as the wonder drug for everything from hangnails to cancer (some of which is hogwash, of course, though there are certain things for which there is pretty solid evidence of its usefulness, among them, as an anti-inflammatory). Considering that a major difference between the mild cases and the life-threatening cases seems to be that in the serious cases, the patient's own immune system is running amok,  the anti-inflammatories may really be the key (and, in fact, one drug that has shown some promise in the trials, Dexamethasone, is a steroid and thus has anti-inflammatory properties). "Hit it hard and fast" may indeed be the best approach, though, since according to Dr, Procter, two thirds of the people he has treated hadn't tested positive, so he can't even be sure what he was treating them_ for. _Before anybody makes a bee-line for Texas, you need to remember that even most of the people who test positive won't get seriously ill, so in reality, Dr. Procter's treatment regimen (assuming that it works) has kept maybe 5 or 10 people out of the hospital - but, with confirmed case numbers skyrocketing in Texas, that's that much less pressure on strained resources.


----------



## Jesusfreak101

Okay I haven't got on here much but i want to point this out yes case are on the rise but two things here apply. One they are test alot more then they the were there would be less cases if they werent test every where. We live in the middle of no were and they set up testing locations in place there weren't any before a few weeks ago. Second no matter what anyone says the best defensive is always the offenense sitting around waiting to get it or worrying your going to die from it just makes you more likely to get sick from something even if it's not covid. I know from experience that the less exposure you have to the herd shall I say then the more likely your to catch something when you go out into it. Eventually this will be just like any other illness and it will fade into the back ground changing everyone's life's and basic freedom by demanding everyone wears a mask or gets a shot or does what ever they want to push is not right. We and our founding fathers of this country knew that when you give some one control over you life stops. You either become their servant or their slave and your freedom is lost. If the ability to live or doing things and they way they are done are dictated by any person or persons in goverment then the government becomes our task master and are no longer a governing body that is run by the people but is a governing body that controls the people and to what end. Yes I know it's not a favored look when you see things going on. But reality is the best people to make the desion for a person's life is the person living the life. We as Shepards and as animal enthusiasts know that we can only do so much to help the animals we care for at some point it becomes up to them whether they live or die. I can not make them drink the water or eat the food i provide or take shelter where i make it for them at. I can also only provide as much protection as i can. Granted yes i could make a place where the animal lived in a bubble and couldn't come into harms way but that would limit the animals life and would there fore cause the animal mental and emotional distress and therefore be against the animals best interest. When we take away their ability to defend themselves or live and find things for themselves we are indeed making it impossible for them to live a full life. I am not will to give up my right to not wear a mask or my right to wear one if i felt the need. I am not okay with doctors telling me things that i have to do either if idon't agree with it. When you go to the hospital to give birth they tell you that you can't drink or eat but you have to do some of the hardest work in your entire life. Logic dictates if one works one needs energy and in order to have that you have to eat and drink. I given birth in a hospital and at home at home i ate and rest when i needed to and labor was so much easier and less traumatic then in the hospital. They don't give you a choice you either accept what they say whether they are right or not or you don't get the help that you need. Granted you could go somewhere else but that doesn't work for a nation. I hope explained myself well enough here. But I will say this i do not wish to offend anyone however i can cab say how anyone reading this may view it. Life contiunes and therefore living must continue.


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## farmerjan

I'm not going to get into a p**ing match but you can get passive immunity through other ways that colostrum.  I have proven that colostrum has been effective given to calves several days old; not just the suggested 24 hours.  Vet did blood work on some calves in a study that a university was doing, and I was buying calves that had questionable colostrum feedings, and I fed colostrum from my own cows, from frozen bottles I had saved.  Don't know what all they were testing for but had several pages of items  that they were tested for.  Calves that drink milk continue to get passive immunity that the cow has. It has been shown that there is some passive immunity in cattle that have been exposed to others with certain diseases.   If you can't get any passive immunity through contact and air  breathing, then why would you be able to catch the virus either?  All those droplets can contain things in minute amounts that your body can process and use.    
People that have colds, a corona virus, can get over them, and in another couple weeks or month get another cold.... same principle with this c-19.  I never said that they would be immune to it, just that it could ramp up their immune system, so that it could fight it, or never get it or get it with no symptoms.
I will opt for a healthier immune system, whether it has all the antibodies for 2 months, or 6,  or 2 years, than to sit and hide away and lower my bodies ability to fight off anything.  
All the younger people that are showing "positive results" and no symptoms is really no different than having a cold or flu and showing no symptoms.  They have not PROVEN that it is contagious  for just the 14 day period..... they recently did a turn around on how it was contagious from surfaces for days, to hours, to probably you can't catch it off a surface after a very short period of time....  Maybe it is contagious for 4 weeks, maybe only a couple of days..... 
Common sense says to not DIRECTLY  expose those susceptible or immune compromised..... just like any other sickness. 
So, if I get it and have to,  I WILL make a trip to whomever will try an aggressive protocol....   rather than try to play catch up after I am real sick. 
To each his own.   I am an "outside the box" kind of person because I have found that the current system of treating the symptoms, instead of trying to eliminate the cause is just not enough for me.


----------



## caprineacres

I am the newcomer here and have no affiliation with anyone on this site.  I've been following this thread for sometime. now and I've noticed a few things.

There is a lot of information and misinformation being bandied about.  The truth about this virus is that no one person has the answer.  I come from a family that is rife with medical professionals.  Many, many nurses, several physicians with different specialties, technicians, therapists, and my own husband who is a retired physician.  Most of my family members are aghast at how this pandemic has unfolded and taken such a strong foothold in our country. 

Regarding the aforementioned video by the doctor who posted on social media about his 100% success rate treating C-19 is frightening.  His sample population of 75 patients is nothing more than a drop in the bucket of this disease. This was not a controlled study and his experiences are nothing more than empirical observations at this point.  As was previously mentioned, many of his patients were not proven to be suffering from C-19. 

One poster stated if she got this disease (perhaps because of no mask) she was going to board the first plane to Texas.  Please don't do that!  That is an example of the type of actions that have allowed this disease to get so out of control in the first place.

Why has this disease become so politicized?  Why is a percentage of the public fighting back against safety guidelines?  There are many laws and statutes in our country that are set up for protection of the public.  Do you wear a seatbelt when you are in a vehicle, or a helmet on a motorcycle? I do because I've seen firsthand what can happen when you don't.  Were these laws enacted to "control" the population?   We are controlled by the government on a daily basis.  We pay taxes, we follow laws etc., etc.  Mandates to wear masks are no different.

Masks help to control this disease.  Social distancing helps to control this disease.  Staying home helps to control this disease.  That's not political.  That's the truth. To say that you're not wearing a mask because your freedoms are being impinged upon makes no sense to me.  To not wear a mask is simply showing a complete disregard for others.

I realize that there are people in this world who have a serious need to be right and to have all the answers.  There is no place for that here.  No one has all the answers.  This is too new and protocol is being developed, discarded, and reinvented every day.  Our choices can help mitigate the damages to ourselves and others.  By the same token our choices can make this much, much worse.

This is not a political issue even though our current leadership has done their best to make it so.  This is a disease that will likely be with us, in some form, forever.  We need to do our best to help prevent the spread and to do it out of respect and care for others.


----------



## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> It has been shown that there is some passive immunity in cattle that have been exposed to others with certain diseases. If you can't get any passive immunity through contact and air breathing, then why would you be able to catch the virus either?



Oh, c'mon, you know cattle a lot better than I do. They lick each other, they lie around in their own and each other's poop and pee (not to mention the flies!) and eat off the ground near where others have eliminated; that's a heckuva lot more intimate than I want to be with the members of my "herd," I can tell you that! Organisms that continue to shed pathogens long after they seem to have recovered from a disease are well documented, Typhoid Mary may be the most notorious, but she was in no way unique. I propose that it is possible that these cattle got exposed to the pathogens themselves, but at something below an infectious dose; enough to trigger an immune response but not produce clinical disease. I know a lot of things get into breath, but has anybody ever shown that antibodies do, especially in a large enough concentration to extend immunity? Gives "the breath of life" a whole new meaning, doesn't it?



Jesusfreak101 said:


> When you go to the hospital to give birth they tell you that you can't drink or eat but you have to do some of the hardest work in your entire life.




What brute told you not to drink? My kids are 19 and 24, and I was sipping Gatorade during both of their in-hospital births.  The nurses considered my doctor a dominating, controlling, old-fashioned dinosaur way back then, and even he allowed me clear fluids - in moderation. Doctors are trained to think of the worst-case scenario; it would be nice if they could assume that all will be well, but the moment anything goes wrong, some people immediately think "sue for malpractice!", and Obstetricians pay some of the highest malpractice insurance premiums in the country. Even beyond the financial implications, losing a patient is the most horrible thing a doctor can experience, and those who escort new lives into the world have some of the most vulnerable patients of all.


The reason for the "don't eat or drink" order is that they are thinking they may have to do emergency surgery to save your life and/or that of the baby, which means anesthesia, and since people have been known to vomit under anesthesia, and laboring mothers often vomit when they reach the point of labor known as "transition," there is a significant risk of inhaling vomit and getting inhalation pneumonia. Obviously, if there is nothing in your stomach, you can't vomit, can you?  A lot of doctors want to put an IV line in as soon as the laboring mother is admitted; fluids and nutrients are easily given that way (the clear fluid in the bag that an IV is hooked up to is kind of like Pedialyte without the sugar), as are any drugs that may be required. If all goes well, the IV will be a totally unnecessary procedure, but it's a lot easier to install one_ before _the patient becomes dehydrated and their veins start collapsing.
.


Jesusfreak101 said:


> One they are test alot more then they the were there would be less cases if they werent test every where.



Yep, and to take this kind of logic one step further, if they didn't test at all, there wouldn't be any cases at all  

- but people would still be getting sick, and even dying, the only difference is that nobody would be sure why. Those test kits aren't free, nor is the labor to process them. Don't know about Texas, but in North Carolina, there is a question-and-answer session before you get tested. Until recently, they wanted symptoms and a good reason to think you had been exposed before they would break out the kit, otherwise, they'd just tell you to go home and stay there unless you got worse. Even _with_ symptoms and probable exposure, only a relatively small number of those tests were coming back positive. The reason they are testing more, is to try and figure out how widespread this is; they aren't just looking at the number of positives they are getting, they also want to see the percentage of positives when compared to the number of tests. If you test 10 people, and three are positive, that's about one third of your test group and it looks pretty serious. If you test 100 people, and you only get 3 positives, that looks like a very different picture, doesn't it?


----------



## Baymule

caprineacres said:


> I am the newcomer here and have no affiliation with anyone on this site.  I've been following this thread for sometime. now and I've noticed a few things.
> 
> There is a lot of information and misinformation being bandied about.  The truth about this virus is that no one person has the answer.  I come from a family that is rife with medical professionals.  Many, many nurses, several physicians with different specialties, technicians, therapists, and my own husband who is a retired physician.  Most of my family members are aghast at how this pandemic has unfolded and taken such a strong foothold in our country.
> 
> Regarding the aforementioned video by the doctor who posted on social media about his 100% success rate treating C-19 is frightening.  His sample population of 75 patients is nothing more than a drop in the bucket of this disease. This was not a controlled study and his experiences are nothing more than empirical observations at this point.  As was previously mentioned, many of his patients were not proven to be suffering from C-19.
> 
> One poster stated if she got this disease (perhaps because of no mask) she was going to board the first plane to Texas.  Please don't do that!  That is an example of the type of actions that have allowed this disease to get so out of control in the first place.
> 
> Why has this disease become so politicized?  Why is a percentage of the public fighting back against safety guidelines?  There are many laws and statutes in our country that are set up for protection of the public.  Do you wear a seatbelt when you are in a vehicle, or a helmet on a motorcycle? I do because I've seen firsthand what can happen when you don't.  Were these laws enacted to "control" the population?   We are controlled by the government on a daily basis.  We pay taxes, we follow laws etc., etc.  Mandates to wear masks are no different.
> 
> Masks help to control this disease.  Social distancing helps to control this disease.  Staying home helps to control this disease.  That's not political.  That's the truth. To say that you're not wearing a mask because your freedoms are being impinged upon makes no sense to me.  To not wear a mask is simply showing a complete disregard for others.
> 
> I realize that there are people in this world who have a serious need to be right and to have all the answers.  There is no place for that here.  No one has all the answers.  This is too new and protocol is being developed, discarded, and reinvented every day.  Our choices can help mitigate the damages to ourselves and others.  By the same token our choices can make this much, much worse.
> 
> This is not a political issue even though our current leadership has done their best to make it so.  This is a disease that will likely be with us, in some form, forever.  We need to do our best to help prevent the spread and to do it out of respect and care for others.


Voice of reason. I have no problem wearing a mask in public, especially if it makes someone else that may have compromised health issues, safe from me breathing my germs on them. With a 2 week incubation period, shedding virus or asymptotic, I don’t think me wearing a mask is an infringement on MY rights, it is just the considerate thing to do.


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## Simpleterrier

I don't wear a mask. I don't think it goes against my rights. I just see how people who wear them handle them and what they are made of. To many people touch them all day long witch is worse then no mask.That's what the real joke is. So I don't wear one and people avoid me like I got the plague. So I'm practicing social distancing by not wearing one.


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## Baymule

Have y'all heard that blood type O is less likely to get Covid-19 or have a lighter case of it? I have type O blood. 






*Blood type may affect COVID-19 outcomes, study shows - TMC News*
Preliminary data indicates that those with Type A blood are at greater risk from COVID-19, while Type O blood may offer some protection from the virus.



www.tmc.edu





*Genes, Blood Type Tied to Risk of Severe COVID-19*
Many people who contract COVID-19 have only a mild illness, or sometimes no symptoms at all. But some develop respiratory failure that requires oxygen support or even a ventilator to help them reco…





 directorsblog.nih.gov


----------



## Bunnylady

So I met my dad for lunch yesterday. Amazing how abnormal something so normal has become, isn't it? But he's in his mid-eighties, with heart issues, so there's no getting around it, he's high risk. My brother (who lives with him now) is being very, very careful, and I'm not taking unnecessary risks either, but both of our communities (we live about a hundred miles apart) are steadily racking up numbers of positive cases. It's horrible to think you could be a threat to someone you love, but the potential is there, so even something as simple as a family visit needs to be evaluated in terms of risk. Our compromise was to meet at a restaurant in a community about halfway in-between. In spite of the signs on the doors reminding patrons that our governor has mandated masks in public settings, there seemed to be a lot of people walking in and out without face coverings. So, after some discussion, we decided to sit in the outdoor dining area.  A bit on the warm side at this time of year, of course, but it was shady, and there was a nice breeze. It was marvelous to see them, even if I didn't dare risk hugging them (though Dad did give me a fist bump goodbye when we parted company).


----------



## Baymule




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## Stephine

Baymule said:


> Have y'all heard that blood type O is less likely to get Covid-19 or have a lighter case of it? I have type O blood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Blood type may affect COVID-19 outcomes, study shows - TMC News*
> Preliminary data indicates that those with Type A blood are at greater risk from COVID-19, while Type O blood may offer some protection from the virus.
> 
> 
> 
> www.tmc.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Genes, Blood Type Tied to Risk of Severe COVID-19*
> Many people who contract COVID-19 have only a mild illness, or sometimes no symptoms at all. But some develop respiratory failure that requires oxygen support or even a ventilator to help them reco…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> directorsblog.nih.gov


Lucky Ducky - I have type A...


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## Baymule

Stephine said:


> Lucky Ducky - I have type A...


Our neighbor was sick for 4 weeks and he is type O so it didn’t work out for him.  There seem to be no rules to this, only suggestions.


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## rachels.haven

Aw, but I like false hope. Someone in our house (not me) is type O. 

...just kidding, I didn't believe it either. But I WANTED to.


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## Baymule

The latest is...........if you have a fat belly, you will get sicker and it is harder to recover. What a bunch of crap.


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## Mike CHS

I decided to let the world go by and quit watching any news that I don't believe anyway.


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## rachels.haven

I would not take that seriously until it's held up to scrutiny for a while. I feel like there's a lot of guessing, posturing, and postulating going around. Being cautious and doing what makes sense to us until time has had time to disprove/prove things has served us well so far.


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## Mike CHS

Teresa was talking to friends this morning and two of their Mothers are in a Senior Home where Covid has broken out.  I don't know the total number of residents but 23 of them have it and 4 staff members.


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## Beekissed

Good info and the most accurate I've seen from a medical standpoint.


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## farmerjan

THANK YOU Very much.  @Beekissed for the video.  You are right, it is very well done, sensible and explains things for anyone to understand.  It is what several others have said, maybe not as articulately.... and what I have been trying to tell people who give me grief about the mask wearing/not wearing.  
Sadly we all know that the response is not totally about  just the virus but more about control and that is what the "officials" that are continuing to push this ridiculous shut down and all that goes along with it.  

I hope that everyone on here watches this and sees that there are more and more real life doctors that are saying this ridiculousness has to stop and we need to go back to life and YES.....HORRORS OF ALL HORRORS.... getting exposed to germs and viruses and bacteria and all the CRUD that is out there.  Like she said, we have to take care and not put "people at risk"  at risk.... by THEM using masks and other methods to not get too much exposure.... and people in the general public NEED TO STAY HOME and stay away from others while they are sick.  
But that is COMMON SENSE, and so many just don't get it or don't want to do it.


----------



## farmerjan

1


Beekissed said:


> Good info and the most accurate I've seen from a medical standpoint.


1 million zillion times YES !!!!


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## farmerjan

1


Beekissed said:


> Good info and the most accurate I've seen from a medical standpoint.


1 million zillion times YES !!!!


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## Bunnylady

Obvious why that video is not on YouTube, isn't it? But since a lot of what she said is wrong, or, at minimum, woefully outdated, I'm wondering just how long ago that video was originally made. Either that video is (so to speak) ancient history, or she's one of those people who form an opinion, and ever after refuse any further input. That's a very dangerous person to listen to in an evolving situation - which this most definitely is.


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## Mike CHS

I had to go back and watch the video again since I couldn't remember what made common sense dangerous.


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## frustratedearthmother

She lost me when she said the C-virus can't survive temps above 70-ish.  In the worst of our heat, a couple weeks ago, is when our county exploded.  It does sound to me like she was working with older information - as I recall the reference to the virus fading in the heat was what was believed when it began...


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## CntryBoy777

This might be of interest....


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## Jesusfreak101

From what I heard her say i would agree with her. For those who still agree to disagree at this point not much is going to sway you. But if she has even 50% chance of being right then you can't say it's dangerous. Now that said you can't argue with her if you believe not enough is known about said virus yet. History show time and time again when population had new pandemic come into effect and life contiuned the same as before for the most part. Yes some died but that part of living we don't choose when we go or how we go. Whether you believe in God or Jesus or not that's the one reality we will all agree on is that life does end on this earth at some point. But while we living how do you prefer to live?? I will probably be told i am wrong again nothing new but for those of the few who what to hear. My family is prefectly fine my family has several high risk members not of my house hold but they haven't gotten it and my aunt who is a rn who has her own clinic with her dh who is a Dr if memory serves. She fine she come in contact on a regular basis with patients of all kinds and with my grandmother who has copd. She hasn't had any issues either. I could go on about family member with cancer or other illness that would cause them to be at a greater risk. My kids and I go to store i wear a face covering because it's law but it's a very breathable just about shear fabric its not actual protection. My kids don't always wash their hands after being in the store either we don't use hand sanitizer. I am not against wearing masks i am against being told what i have to do or I will be fined or arrested expecially when those who commit actual crimes go free. I am against the government being in control of any part of my life that dictates what my freedoms are or what they aren't. I believe Gods word is law, I don't mind be cautious around those who are at risk, but if you are at risk me wearing a mask its not likely to protect you. The best protection for a person at risk is to try to eat health make health desions and try to limit their chance of exposure. When each of my kids were born i didn't not tell everyone in the store to wear a mask to keep them safe.i kept them safe by insuring that they weren't touched or came in direct contact with people who one i didn't know or who were sick or had some symptoms of being sick. I don't take my kids places when they sick we don't go place or if we do my husband or I will go in by ourselves and if either or both of us are sick first we normally have extra of everything incase but if we need something friend or family will get said thing drop it off outside and we pay them for said thing later and the same goes for them. Communities taking care of eachother and the old fashion way has combated more illness them any mask. Communities need to come together and actually take care of eachother if you know someone is sick see if they need anything help them. Be smart about it and also make due that they are taken care of. If they at risk go to the store for them or bring dinner for them. There are other ways to stop the spread of any illness and there are better ways then fear. I am done like I said before there will be those who find fault with what i said and that's fine. I am by no means a speaker but i do believe that those who have spoke out against covid and mask are better at getting the message across and have more knowledge then most of us in certian areas. I also believe i need to stand by those who i consider my friends who get told time and time again they are wrong in manners that aren't correct. I believe that all of you are very smart in each their own way the only way we all benefit from knowledge is by keeping an open mind and seeking God first. I end my post on that.


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## farmerjan

@CntryBoy777  tried to get the video and it says it has been removed for violating You tubes terms of Service.  Any chance it is on any other of the multitude of sites?


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## CntryBoy777

farmerjan said:


> @CntryBoy777  tried to get the video and it says it has been removed for violating You tubes terms of Service.  Any chance it is on any other of the multitude of sites?


I am so sorry!!....I looked it up and the poster....viable tv...only has 2 outlets that I can find.....utube and fb...I do not have a fb account, so I can't go there and look for it....however, I will sum up what was said....it was a internal medicine doctor in Houston, TX that has treated and cured over 300 patients with the virus....she attacked the "mainstream" for allowing so many to die needlessly, because there is a cure for the virus, but because of fake science and big pharma it isn't being promoted....she runs a clinic in Houston and she has herself and whole staff on preventative measures, and having treated and been in a "hot" environment treating the virus, not a single one of her staff have been affected by the virus....the regimen consists of 3 meds, one is the one that the president takes, and another is zinc, and the other I can't remember.....she also stated that they are working on putting up a website of over 2,000 MDs that use this method, it is fronlinemd.com, I tried to access it, but it wasn't up when I tried....hopefully, somebody can find it on fb with a search for viable tv....I know I'm no "expert", but she sounds Jamaican to me...tho I can't swear to that.....she was a bit "fired up" about it and that may have been why they removed it, but the "control" of the social networks always leans to the "mainstream" and is fixing to be "exposed" shortly in the Senate....


----------



## CntryBoy777

Here it is again.....


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## CntryBoy777

Even more....


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## Mike CHS

Breitbart has the whole news conference with the doctors that were part of the seminar in DC yesterday.


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## farmerjan

Thanks @CntryBoy777  for finding it again.  I heard about it on Talk radio this afternoon, and they played some of the black lady doctors" talk about it and how passionate she was about it should be allowed for doctors to make their own choice to use it or not to.  The whole thing about it is true sadly.... it is strictly a political thing because Trump had been so positive and talked so favorably about it and that did not fit the agenda of shutting down and making everyone AFRAID as that doctor said.  
There has been some comments that she as a doctor and a pastor, has some weird ideas about certain diseases and the devil causing some conditions..... they tried to make her out to be a total wack job..... well, for the non-religious ones, sadly, mostly on the left because of the way they have shut down the churches yet allow the "peaceful protestors"..... allowing any practice of faith is counter intuitive to the control that they want to exert over everyone.  So what if she believes some of that.... people who are devoutly religious believe other things that mainstream doesn't.... if it isn't hurting anyone, or causing people to be neglectful or destructive to others;  who cares about some of the agendas..... every single person that I have ever met has their own little quirks in the way the believe and practice their faith.  

Since there are so many other "normal" non-confirmed pastors that also are pushing this, I am hoping that they finally get past the BS nonsense and push for this country to get back on it's feet.  And I for one am VERY GLAD that there are more and more coming out about it.  

I said quite awhile back, that if I were to contract it, I would be on a plane or in a car headed for Texas where the doctors that believe in it have been more outspoken and pushing it.  Like I said.... what can it hurt????? If it means possibly stopping it or even lessening it so that I didn't wind up on a ventilator in a hospital, dying with no one around me that I loved......then WHY NOT???? And the doctors and even that researcher is right.... this drug has been around forever;  I for one am sure going to trust something like that long before I am going to trust a NEW Vaccine, that they have just come out with and have no history on it.....
I will take my chances with something like that.... what are the possible consequences????   That it will kill me????   HE//, going into a hosp and going on a vent is gonna kill me anyway...... Just keep me away from the idiots in NY and NJ and Calif...... they would kill me sooner just to shut me up.


----------



## farmerjan

Just a little aside......

On that subject.... a friend's son is a fanatic about wearing a mask and washing/sanitizing his hands and all that.....in his early 20's.  He was just diagnosed with it, mild flu type symptoms for a couple days.  Work requires them to get tested twice a week.....so after testing positive, self quarantining,  he went for a hike this weekend and said that he got winded and had to take a break when in normal times he would not.....this is a normal often done hike of a few miles.  
Work has told him that once his quarantine is over, 14 days, he can come back to work.... and won't have to have any more tests because he will continue to test positive for weeks at least..... the negative testers have to test 2 times a week, but the ones once positive, don't have to test again..... and they can prove that after 14 days you definitely are not contagious????? REALLY?????
By the way, he is in Alaska.... so social distancing is sorta not very hard to do.....in his area.

The friend (his mom)  doesn't wear a mask (like I don't) except where she absolutely has to, to be able to get into a place of business.... and they don't wear masks at work.... it's my preferred feed store.  None of them are wearing masks except when they are mixing a dusty additive into feed batches.... and have worn a mask like that for their own protection for years from the dusty stuff.... like DE which is very irritating.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

farmerjan said:


> I said quite awhile back, that if I were to contract it, I would be on a plane or in a car headed for Texas


Please don't get on a plane to Texas, lol.  We have enough sick folks here already - and you'd just get everybody else on the plane sick too.  Texas needs to close it's borders - except for folks leaving!


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## CntryBoy777

I have always heard that virus has to "run its course" and until it does, people will get sick....the last deathrate I saw was 0.26%, and with such an inconsistency in the testing and reporting, they are having to keep the numbers elevated for it to continue to be classified as a pandemic. I don't have confidence in the whole mask thing for several reasons....the people in China are use to wearing masks to protect against air pollution, yet it spread there...look at the muslim countries where the women wear cloth face coverings, and it spread....when ya go out to a store and people have maks on....how many noses do ya see above the mask?...how many are handling them improperly?....how many use a fresh one each trip?...most just keep it in the glovebox and reuse it....our daughter that is an RN in an ER stays in mask, gloves, and gown...changing between each patient, yet she got it....her family at home didn't contract it during the quarentine, even haven taken a 3day trip in a car...she didn't get the results until after they got back home.....so, if people don't use them correctly and those that do, get it anyway....what good is it?....most of the deaths come from underlying already existing conditions...even the younger ages....almost 40% here in FL used vaping products and there is a growing link between strokes and vaping.....I don't say this uncaringly, but IMHO there isn't any need for the hysteria, because the news is geared to magnify the situation for the "agenda" they want to achieve....in 2018 there were 2.8 million deaths from all causes...not many even batted an eye at that figure....so, what is the difference between having died of covid19 or in a car wreck  or stroke, or heart attack?....in each case it is sad and terrible, but the end result is the same and there isn't any human alive that can stop, delay, or escape that "time" when it comes "knocking"....I have been there at least 5 times in my life and am still here, so I have some experience with it and nobody "saved" my life....it wasn't my time, and others were just doing the job they were trained and paid to do....


----------



## Stephine

rachels.haven said:


> I would not take that seriously until it's held up to scrutiny for a while. I feel like there's a lot of guessing, posturing, and postulating going around. Being cautious and doing what makes sense to us until time has had time to disprove/prove things has served us well so far.


I think the trouble is, we are seeing science just beginning to figure this one out. Then each time they have a new idea about what to explore further, the papers take the hypothesis and simplify it present it as a new finding, at least in the headlines. And we all like certainty, so we have a tendency to read more into it, too. And then we get disappointed when scientists do some more exploring (as they always do) and find something different - because when they say „possibly“, we hear „definitely“... Then, of course, once they do have something they are quite certain of and we don’t like it, we say, nah... they don‘t know what they are doing, they‘ve changed their minds before.... We all need to listen better to what the scientist are actually saying and look beyond the headlines (me included) out of respect to the scientists (who are trying to figure stuff out for all of us) and to our own benefit.


----------



## Stephine

farmerjan said:


> Just a little aside......
> 
> On that subject.... a friend's son is a fanatic about wearing a mask and washing/sanitizing his hands and all that.....in his early 20's.  He was just diagnosed with it, mild flu type symptoms for a couple days.  Work requires them to get tested twice a week.....so after testing positive, self quarantining,  he went for a hike this weekend and said that he got winded and had to take a break when in normal times he would not.....this is a normal often done hike of a few miles.
> Work has told him that once his quarantine is over, 14 days, he can come back to work.... and won't have to have any more tests because he will continue to test positive for weeks at least..... the negative testers have to test 2 times a week, but the ones once positive, don't have to test again..... and they can prove that after 14 days you definitely are not contagious????? REALLY?????
> By the way, he is in Alaska.... so social distancing is sorta not very hard to do.....in his area.
> 
> The friend (his mom)  doesn't wear a mask (like I don't) except where she absolutely has to, to be able to get into a place of business.... and they don't wear masks at work.... it's my preferred feed store.  None of them are wearing masks except when they are mixing a dusty additive into feed batches.... and have worn a mask like that for their own protection for years from the dusty stuff.... like DE which is very irritating.


Ok, here‘s a way to look at this: Son is working at a high risk (forCovid19 exposure) job. He is doing his best, wearing the best mask available to him (likely not an n95), which filters out less than half of the virus in the air he breathes (I believe a surgical mask or a very good multi layer tight cotton weave mask filter around 30%), and protects him from droplets should somebody sneeze, or cough or yell in his direction (though he‘ll also have to shield his eyes as another entry point for droplet infection - he may or may not have worn a protective shield or goggles). He probably couldn’t stay 6ft apart from everyone he was around at work (or possibly on his commute). Or he was indoors and shared the same air with others over longer periods of time (more than about 15 to twenty minutes). With a virus it matters how much of the virus one is exposed to, and if the exposure amount exceeds a threshold , a person gets sick. They have found that people get sicker the more virus they have been exposed to. The rest is up to personal immune response.
Now the mom is working in a feed store. There might be better air circulation, customers that could bring the virus might not hang out long, and the rest can be pure luck. Just a matter of time. 
As for the testing. To the best of current knowledge (that I am aware of), people are infectious before they show any symptoms (there are other common viruses where that is the case). They are not infectious anymore after a certain time period once they have started showing symptoms, so yes, no more testing needed.
I wish your friend‘s son well! They are now finding so many terrible issues show up later, heart attacks, kidney failure, strokes.... And a lot of people are feeling sick for months. I, for my part, am doing my utmost to avoid this bug - and am hoping for a vaccine!


----------



## Stephine

CntryBoy777 said:


> I am so sorry!!....I looked it up and the poster....viable tv...only has 2 outlets that I can find.....utube and fb...I do not have a fb account, so I can't go there and look for it....however, I will sum up what was said....it was a internal medicine doctor in Houston, TX that has treated and cured over 300 patients with the virus....she attacked the "mainstream" for allowing so many to die needlessly, because there is a cure for the virus, but because of fake science and big pharma it isn't being promoted....she runs a clinic in Houston and she has herself and whole staff on preventative measures, and having treated and been in a "hot" environment treating the virus, not a single one of her staff have been affected by the virus....the regimen consists of 3 meds, one is the one that the president takes, and another is zinc, and the other I can't remember.....she also stated that they are working on putting up a website of over 2,000 MDs that use this method, it is fronlinemd.com, I tried to access it, but it wasn't up when I tried....hopefully, somebody can find it on fb with a search for viable tv....I know I'm no "expert", but she sounds Jamaican to me...tho I can't swear to that.....she was a bit "fired up" about it and that may have been why they removed it, but the "control" of the social networks always leans to the "mainstream" and is fixing to be "exposed" shortly in the Senate....


If you can find the information only on youtube or facebook, that is a very reliable indication that it is bogus. Please don’t fall for it. Anybody can make stuff up and broadcast it there to make themselves feel important.


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## CntryBoy777

Stephine said:


> If you can find the information only on youtube or facebook, that is a very reliable indication that it is bogus. Please don’t fall for it. Anybody can make stuff up and broadcast it there to make themselves feel important.


Well, having dealt with the medical field since 4yrs of age, I certainly know and have experienced the uncertainty of it...nothing is "black and white"....this is why there are consults and 2nd "opinions" that are encouraged and in some cases mandated....ya can go to 3 different docs with the same exact symptoms and get 3 differing regimens of medications for it....when known "agendas" are in charge of "controlling" available information that they "disagree" with and it is squashed....it should send "alerts" that something isn't "kosher" when it is "mainstream media" that is controlling the narrative....as an example....the drug being discredited has been used for many, many yrs now with little to no negative effects....it is sold OTC in many other countries....but because it doesn't fit the narrative, it is suddenly deemed highly problematic by media and politicians, but not the medical community....now, when did journalists and lawyers become such "experts" on medicines and such?....how many are quoted in the Lancet, JAMA, or others medical journals?.....just like any profession, many "experts" can be bought and paid for to render a favorable "opinion"....but rarely is it one that is "in the trenches", they want one that has an "arm's lenghth" of credentials to give "weight" to their "cause".
I have lost faith in the system as it stands today, because of my personal experience of insurance companies deciding what and what not treatment, tests, and medications that my doc has available to treat me with...and if people don't wake up to what is really going on, they will be swept away by the "mainstream" and it will be way too late to do anything about it....ya can say that I'm some sorta "conspiracy theorist", but just remember....most said it about Noah up and until the rain drops began to fall....


----------



## Mike CHS

I have zero personal knowledge about that medication but my son in laws father is the chief pharmacist at a California hospital and he said they are using it routinely at that hospital.


----------



## Bunnylady

https://www.wect.com/2020/07/29/misinformation-virus-is-proving-highly-contagious/

- as this thread demonstrates. 

I particularly like the comment from the psychology professor at the end of the article:
"People only want to hear what they already think they know,"


----------



## Bunnylady

CntryBoy777 said:


> the drug being discredited has been used for many, many yrs now with little to no negative effects



Hydroxychloroquine
*Side Effects*
Nausea, vomiting, loss of appetite, diarrhea, dizziness, or headache may occur. If any of these effects last or get worse, tell your doctor or pharmacist promptly.

Remember that your doctor has prescribed this medication because he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people using this medication do not have serious side effects.

Tell your doctor right away if you have any serious side effects, including: slow heartbeat, symptoms of heart failure (such as shortness of breath, swelling ankles/feet, unusual tiredness, unusual/sudden weight gain), mental/mood changes (such as anxiety, depression, rare thoughts of suicide, hallucinations), hearing changes (such as ringing in the ears, hearing loss), easy bruising/bleeding, signs of infection (such as sore throat that doesn't go away, fever), signs of liver disease (such as severe stomach/abdominal pain, yellowing eyes/skin, dark urine), muscle weakness, unwanted/uncontrolled movements (including tongue/face twitching), hair loss, hair/skin color changes.

This medication may cause low blood sugar (hypoglycemia). Tell your doctor right away if you develop symptoms of low blood sugar, such as sudden sweating, shaking, hunger, blurred vision, dizziness, or tingling hands/feet. If you have diabetes, be sure to check your blood sugars regularly. Your doctor may need to adjust your diabetes medication.

Get medical help right away if you have any very serious side effects, including: severe dizziness, fainting, fast/irregular heartbeat, seizures.

This medication may cause serious eye/vision problems. The risk for these side effects is increased with long-term use of this medication and with taking this medication in high doses. Get medical help right away if you have any symptoms of serious eye problems, including: sensitivity to light, vision changes (such as light flashes/streaks, blurred vision, difficulty reading, missing areas of vision).

A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), dizziness, trouble breathing.

This is not a complete list of possible side effects. If you notice other effects not listed above, contact your doctor or pharmacist.


----------



## Bunnylady

Azithromycin
*Side Effects*
Stomach upset, diarrhea/loose stools, nausea, vomiting, or abdominal pain may occur. If any of these effects persist or worsen, tell your doctor or pharmacist promptly.

Remember that your doctor has prescribed this medication because he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people using this medication do not have serious side effects.

Tell your doctor right away if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: hearing changes (such as decreased hearing, deafness), eye problems (such as drooping eyelids, blurred vision), difficulty speaking/swallowing, muscle weakness, signs of liver problems (such as unusual tiredness, persistent nausea/vomiting, severe stomach/abdominal pain, yellowing eyes/skin, dark urine).

Get medical help right away if any of these rare but serious side effects occur: fast/irregular heartbeat, severe dizziness, fainting.

This medication may rarely cause a severe intestinal condition (Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhea) due to a resistant bacteria. This condition may occur during treatment or weeks to months after treatment has stopped. Do not use anti-diarrhea or opioid medications if you have any of the following symptoms because these products may make them worse. Tell your doctor right away if you develop: persistent diarrhea, abdominal or stomach pain/cramping, blood/mucus in your stool.

Use of this medication for prolonged or repeated periods may result in oral thrush or a new yeast infection. Contact your doctor if you notice white patches in your mouth, a change in vaginal discharge, or other new symptoms.

A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: fever that doesn't go away, new or worsening lymph node swelling, rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing.

An allergic reaction to this medication may return even if you stop the drug. If you have an allergic reaction, continue to watch for any of the above symptoms for several days after your last dose.


----------



## Beekissed

Yeah...folks have only been taking Z-packs for 20 yrs now as an antibiotic for various things.  It's a real danger.     Used to work as a nurse at a urgent care clinic when it first came out and we handed out sample packs of that like chewing gum~took it several times my self...haven't seen a commercial yet where they were suing over it.  Just like any other antibiotic, or any drug for that matter, it has side effects and folks may have an allergic reaction to it.  Big news.


----------



## CntryBoy777

Yep...surprised death isn't mentioned....looks like many medications warning labels....and it is done to cover a broad spectrum of situations in order to lessen product liability and to comply with existing laws...this is because of the lawsuites brought and the insurance companies that handle malpractice insurance for docs and hospitals...have ya read any of the pills that ya may take?....if so, I'm sure ya will find many commonalities included in them....even the OTC ones have those types of papers included in them....if it were such "high risk", then why has it been used for such a long period with no such evidence?....I mean, it's not like it hit the market recently and it has saved many, many lives worldwide and is routinely used to treat lupus, rhumentoid arthritis and many ailments....it just seems to me that if people are dying...why not?....none of the others are offerring anything at this time to combat it, just trying to treat patients thru the symptoms....so, while the others are "spinning their wheels" and losing ground....ya might as well study and support those that are having some success.....that is, unless there is an "underlying agenda"....then ya oppose the success, attack, and "label" it as invalid and risky to have others "ginned up" on fear to avoid it....oh ya, just what is seen from the "mainstream"....hmmm...it is the "elite" that think they have all the answers and are in "control".....just sayin'....


----------



## farmerjan

Bunnylady said:


> Azithromycin
> *Side Effects*
> Stomach upset, diarrhea/loose stools, nausea, vomiting, or abdominal pain may occur. If any of these effects persist or worsen, tell your doctor or pharmacist promptly.
> 
> Remember that your doctor has prescribed this medication because he or she has judged that the benefit to you is greater than the risk of side effects. Many people using this medication do not have serious side effects.
> 
> Tell your doctor right away if any of these unlikely but serious side effects occur: hearing changes (such as decreased hearing, deafness), eye problems (such as drooping eyelids, blurred vision), difficulty speaking/swallowing, muscle weakness, signs of liver problems (such as unusual tiredness, persistent nausea/vomiting, severe stomach/abdominal pain, yellowing eyes/skin, dark urine).
> 
> Get medical help right away if any of these rare but serious side effects occur: fast/irregular heartbeat, severe dizziness, fainting.
> 
> This medication may rarely cause a severe intestinal condition (Clostridium difficile-associated diarrhea) due to a resistant bacteria. This condition may occur during treatment or weeks to months after treatment has stopped. Do not use anti-diarrhea or opioid medications if you have any of the following symptoms because these products may make them worse. Tell your doctor right away if you develop: persistent diarrhea, abdominal or stomach pain/cramping, blood/mucus in your stool.
> 
> Use of this medication for prolonged or repeated periods may result in oral thrush or a new yeast infection. Contact your doctor if you notice white patches in your mouth, a change in vaginal discharge, or other new symptoms.
> 
> A very serious allergic reaction to this drug is rare. However, get medical help right away if you notice any symptoms of a serious allergic reaction, including: fever that doesn't go away, new or worsening lymph node swelling, rash, itching/swelling (especially of the face/tongue/throat), severe dizziness, trouble breathing.
> 
> An allergic reaction to this medication may return even if you stop the drug. If you have an allergic reaction, continue to watch for any of the above symptoms for several days after your last dose.



Have you looked at some of the side effects that come with these multiple pages for ANY PRESCRIBED drug?  Half the symptoms on the two you cite are on almost any drug that is handed out.  I have several pages of them that I have kept over the years to just compare when something has been prescribed for me. 
MANY PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS.....
Some people have allergic reactions to ASPIRIN..... should that be banned?    People, and more and more children have allergies to peanuts.....stop everyone from eating them IN CASE.....???

I have taken Erythromycin and the Z-pac equivalent for over 50 years for a sore throat that they have never been able to culture strept from, yet it responds in 2 days so they know it is some sort of bacteria that for some reason has escaped id every time they test me.  Finally gave up and the last time they put me on something else, (doxycycline I think this time)  and after nearly 3 weeks, went back and the dr said I can't believe that you haven't gotten much better, I said now will you just give me the erythromycin and I will show you.  In 36 hours the swelling and redness in the throat went down and the "sore throat" went away.  They sent swabs to 2 different labs and didn't isolate what it was.  
This only happens once every couple of years, and I AM NOT a pill taker by nature and do not go running to the dr.  BUT I have learned to listen to my body, and that is one that I just say....okay.... call the dr.  Used a naturopathic  doctor that tried everything during the 5+ years that I was a patient, mostly to address some "low normal" readings of vitamins and some minerals when I wasn't feeling "terrible" but just wasn't feeling right.  But I caught this "sore throat - strept like symptoms"  not long after going to her, and I said I was willing to be a guinea pig after telling her what always worked.  After 2 weeks the first time, took the z-pac and got over it.  Then about 18 months later, got it again, and in consultation  with 2 other gp/and naturopathic trained drs.  they finally said go anti-biotics.   Hated when she moved away because I liked the way she wasn't one to jump on bunches of pills but tried things slowly.  I did get some relief and got my body built up to where it was more normal for my requirements.
So if there are all those horrible side effects,  then bring it on because my getting rid of that nasty un-named bug is definitely worth it.  

There are warnings on natural things like even Vitamin C.  If  a dr. feels that something is of benefit, and you have a good relationship with that dr., then you do it.  

That video was from a large group of Drs from around the country that went to DC to testify to their success and to cite other studies where it has shown to be beneficial to many.  Just because it was on Youtube does not make it a scam.... I will put my faith and my care in drs that say lets try this, I have had success and please let me know if you have ANY PROBLEMS..... this drug has been around for a long time and it is pretty safe in most all cases.  Basically that is what these doctors have been saying.  
Besides, what is the alternative???? DYING ???? Well, how many have died that have gotten so bad then went on vents in the hosp????? With no one allowed to be close to them but caregivers????  Sorry,  not gonna happen here. 

Drs should be able to prescribe what they have had experience with, what they feel comfortable with, and what others have said works.  Not get met with the hypocritical BS because someone said, oh no, that has side effects.... yet it is used for years in patients for other things.....with MINIMAL problems.  I will take a tried and used drug  over some new "vaccine" that they will never be able to perfectly make because this corona virus will mutate as does the one that cattle get.... and we use a vaccine that will give them protection from a certain strain, and hopefully the body will have antibodies that will recognize and develop other strains in the system.  
That is why it is not a "flu vaccine" but a flu shot. Or a pneumonia shot and a shingle shot.... They do not prevent it.  A Rabies vaccine is a true vaccine.  Tetanus likewise.


----------



## rachels.haven

I have personal experience with hydroxychloroquine and I personally know very well why it is prescription only. That is an evil drug. Even in low doses it can cause mood issues, suicidal thoughts, nerve issues/damage (my arms would go numb in an alarming, being electrocuted kind of way for long periods of time), horrid depression regularly about 2 hours after taking it. It can be very dangerous for many people and the mechanism of action is not understood. I've never been in a darker place than when I was taking that drug. It took away my ability to have feelings, left me in a dark place, and it was all drug induced and went away after I stopped and informed my doctor I would never take it again. Horrid, horrid toxic thing. The doctors won't tell you about it because the above are not the BIG symptoms. I'm not even sure the majority know. It's not a well understood or known drug.

Semi credible sources with only brief warnings. Disgusting.









						Risk of depression, suicidal ideation, suicide and psychosis with hydroxychloroquine treatment for rheumatoid arthritis: a multi-national network cohort study
					

Objectives Concern has been raised in the rheumatological community regarding recent regulatory warnings that hydroxychloroquine used in the COVID-19 pandemic could cause acute psychiatric events. We aimed to study whether there is risk of incident depression, suicidal ideation, or psychosis...




					www.medrxiv.org
				



https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/hydroxychloroquine-oral-route/proper-use/drg-20064216?p=1#:~:text=Hydroxychloroquine may cause some people,tell your doctor right away.  (scroll down to precautions)

Quinine, had long ago been documented to be correlated with similar issues. People murdered their families while under it's influence. I'm not dredging that info up again though. This one is good enough.








						Psychiatric effects of malaria and anti-malarial drugs: historical and modern perspectives
					

The modern medical literature implicates malaria, and particularly the potentially fatal form of cerebral malaria, with a risk of neurocognitive impairment. Yet historically, even milder forms of malaria were associated in the literature with a broad ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
				




There.I said what I've been sitting on for months now.


----------



## farmerjan

Stephine said:


> Ok, here‘s a way to look at this: Son is working at a high risk (forCovid19 exposure) job. He is doing his best, wearing the best mask available to him (likely not an n95), which filters out less than half of the virus in the air he breathes (I believe a surgical mask or a very good multi layer tight cotton weave mask filter around 30%), and protects him from droplets should somebody sneeze, or cough or yell in his direction (though he‘ll also have to shield his eyes as another entry point for droplet infection - he may or may not have worn a protective shield or goggles). He probably couldn’t stay 6ft apart from everyone he was around at work (or possibly on his commute). Or he was indoors and shared the same air with others over longer periods of time (more than about 15 to twenty minutes). With a virus it matters how much of the virus one is exposed to, and if the exposure amount exceeds a threshold , a person gets sick. They have found that people get sicker the more virus they have been exposed to. The rest is up to personal immune response.
> Now the mom is working in a feed store. There might be better air circulation, customers that could bring the virus might not hang out long, and the rest can be pure luck. Just a matter of time.
> As for the testing. To the best of current knowledge (that I am aware of), people are infectious before they show any symptoms (there are other common viruses where that is the case). They are not infectious anymore after a certain time period once they have started showing symptoms, so yes, no more testing needed.
> I wish your friend‘s son well! They are now finding so many terrible issues show up later, heart attacks, kidney failure, strokes.... And a lot of people are feeling sick for months. I, for my part, am doing my utmost to avoid this bug - and am hoping for a vaccine!


Son is working as a guide out in the "bush"  for day hikers.  Next to no inside time,  very little up close and personal exposure.  They are all wearing masks and he is a fanatic about stuff anyway. No commute to speak of as he lives right close to there at the house his mom bought for future retirement. 

The feed store has people in and out daily, she is in the front "office part" .  Haven't seen one farmer in there with a mask yet.... We both believe in the herd immunity and she has animals at home and is exposed to vaccinations and such with them. 
Where has it been proven that someone is not not infectious after the 14 day quarantine thing?  "THEY SAY"  seems a little ambiguous to me.  Especially since another friend has a neighbor that was tested positive in a random sampling that they are doing around our county, totally no symptoms.... OVER 6 weeks ago.  She has had 4 tests since, all positive, and they will not allow her to go back to work, or do anything until she has 2 negative tests.  No one says she is contagious.... OR NOT.... but she is not allowed out with the general public. No one in her family has tested positive for it yet and they are all still living there.

So I don't believe one small iota of all this, restrictive stuff.  How can they attribute "terrible issues showing up later" when this is barely 6-8 months into it?  Who is to say these things are not just because other health issues got ignored with the shut down.... or that some of these people weren't going to have these issues anyway.... and if they had had a chance to at least try some other treatments when they were first sick, maybe they wouldn't have so many "after effects " anyway? 

We are on different sides of this fence.  I respect that you have a right to your opinion.... but I will be d@#mned if I will trust the government with a vaccine when they were not even willing to allow for the possibility that there might be other things out there to do and basically shut down the doctors that are trying to help those that come to them.  If they said try it, try anything you think will help and shorten this, then I would be willing to consider alot more.... but they have hamstrung so many doctors, and in places like NY, the governor ought to be strung up for putting elderly people back into nursing homes to infect other VULNERABLE PEOPLE.


----------



## farmerjan

@rachels.haven ;  I respect that you have first hand experience with this drug.  And that you have had very bad reactions - responses to it.  There will always be someone like yourself that it just won't work for....and that is the why of all the warnings.  I also know of people that have had some pretty bad responses to some "anti-depression" drugs and have actually been worse on them.  There is no one perfect drug for the masses.  I am terribly sorry that you had those problems and very glad that you got away from it.  

I am deathly allergic to penicillin.  Had to be rushed to the hospital as a kid when they gave it to me, totally unbeknowst because neither of my parents have any problem with it..... anaphylactic response I think they said.... throat closed up, couldn't breathe, thought I was going to suffocate and didn't understand what was happening.... guess I was like 6 or a little older.  But it works on a great number of people..... no one knew until I had the reaction.  It could have easily been the death of me.....

I realize that is a minor comparison in some ways, but  I think that if a person gets monitored, and things like what happened to you are seen and it stopped. it doesn't take away that it still can and does help others.  I have also read that quinine can cause some mood/personality changes.... so do other  drugs,  and some illegal ones that people promote, and people are killed for random reasons also.  I am not saying that to be unfeeling.... but that is why there are warnings, that is why a drug needs to be monitored when it is administered.... and that for a greater number of people there are often benefits.


----------



## Bunnylady

I'm not sure that I have ever taken a prescription drug without experiencing at least one of the known side effects. Most of the time, they were less annoying than whatever we were treating, so I just endured them until the end of the treatment, though there have been a couple of times when they were serious enough to stop treatment, and several times I have had to take another drug to treat the side effect of the first drug. 

 Are these drugs _safe_? Well, for most people, they are safe _enough._  While most people don't have a (serious) problem when taking them, there is a certain amount of risk . A drug needs to be effective at treating whatever it is being prescribed for to be worth taking the risk - and that's the real question here. Not "how many people have taken these drugs without dying as a result," not "how many patients have you given these drugs to," but "are these drugs _effective_ at treating Covid -19?" 

The World Health Organization has been doing a multinational, side-by-side trial of several drugs that were thought to have some promise of helping to treat Covid -19. A few weeks ago, they announced that they were dropping hydroxychloroquine from the trial.  Their data seemed to show that, as a treatment, it might be a little bit better than nothing at all, but it was definitely no cure. This is the WHO - they are getting reports of over 200,000 new cases each day; India alone reported almost 50,000 new cases today; if they knew of a cheap, readily available, effective treatment, don't you think they'd be telling? 

A few days ago, this article by a group of doctors in Brazil was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. 
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

Briefly, it's a randomized trial with one group being given hydroxychloroquine, one group receiving hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, and a control group receiving standard care but neither of those two drugs. They monitored for 15 days, and found no real difference between the three groups.


----------



## CntryBoy777

I can sure "identify" with problematic medications, having taken a hundred or more in my lifetime....one is pretty common and used extensively that I can't take, it causes me to destroy stuff...sounds very similar to your response @rachels.haven ....but, out of all that I've taken, only 10 or less have produced any side effects at all....this also proves that medicine as a whole is a "trial and error" field and nothing is a "one size fits all"....this is why the sharing of information is vitally important and "canceling" another's viewpoint doesn't seem so necessary.....as far as WHO is concerned, I have no confidence in their integrity or in their findings....anything beyond that would become "political" and I'm not going there....I don't view this as a debate, arguement, or competition, but simply as a "sharing" of info and my main reason for doing so is to comfort those that are overly concerned about this virus mess....too much is focused on the negative and not the positive....the survival rate with this virus is over 99%....so, no I don't see any need to be so focused on it....as many have stated, simple common sense can go a really long way towards "canceling" the fear and concern....and I certainly am a simple man....


----------



## OneFineAcre

CntryBoy777 said:


> one is pretty common and used extensively that I can't take, it causes me to destroy stuff...



That's tequilla for me.


----------



## farmerjan

Good to see you @OneFineAcre .  Hey, didn't you quit smoking like a year or so ago?  Maybe I am on the wrong person... but seems to me it was you.  Hope all is going well in NC.... will you be in an area that the possible tropical storm coming,  will impact?

Liquor puts me to sleep..... haven't found one that revs me up... probably a good thing.


----------



## OneFineAcre

farmerjan said:


> Good to see you @OneFineAcre .  Hey, didn't you quit smoking like a year or so ago?  Maybe I am on the wrong person... but seems to me it was you.  Hope all is going well in NC.... will you be in an area that the possible tropical storm coming,  will impact?
> 
> Liquor puts me to sleep..... haven't found one that revs me up... probably a good thing.



You have a good memory.  September 2nd will be 2 years that I have quit smoking.   

Actually, I completely quit drinking alcohol too, so no tequilla for me.

But, when I did drink my wife and I had an agreement.  I agreed not  to drink tequilla and she agreed to stay married to me. 

I think the storm is supposed to come in at Florida so I think we are supposed to get some rain.  It's actually been pretty wet recently.


----------



## Baymule

I gather and use Elderberry. I found this on FB and thought it a good article. 

Elderberry Q & A
ELDERBERRY AND THE CORONAVIRUS / SARS CoV-2 / COVID-19
I’ve been doing a deep dive into research and investigation of covid-19 as I suspect our mast cell/histamine community could be hit harder than the general population due to many people having suppressed immune systems. I was also curious if Elderberry (an important part of my mast cell recovery!) might be effective against covid-19 as I gear up for the potential of it affecting my own family. I’ll share what I’ve learned specifically on Elderberry today. Make sure you read to the end where the best part is!

I will post soon, my in depth article, that lays out my entire “Covid-19 Plan” that my family and I will be using. It lays out what I'll be doing for both prevention and once the virus hits. I’ve also added lots of good information that is specific to the mast cell community. For instance Vit C is good for viruses… or is it? For us that depends on a myriad of factors which could influence whether you want to use it prophylactically, only if affected by the/a virus, or not at all. Now on to the Elderberry which I realized was a full post in and of itself.

ELDERBERRY’S EFFECTIVENESS WITH VIRUSES
Over the past 20-30 years the evidence of elderberry’s effectiveness with viruses has flooded in. Pushing elderberry from a folk remedy to a trusted ally. Typical flus and colds, the swine flu (H1N1), bird flu (H5N1), noroviruses, herpes viruses and etc have all shown reduced length and severity when elderberry is used. It’s clear it has now proven itself on a scientific level to be helpful in fighting viruses.

In 1993 the US government used elderberries to fight a flu epidemic in Panama.
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Inhibition-of-several-strains-of-influenza-virus-in-Zakay-Rones-Varsano/b5b68b48ffc02d52cd0929f6e4a2546a95908d66

Elderberries have been found to be effective against colds, flus, noroviruses, H1N1, H5N1 and HSV-1.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9395631
https://hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu07/pdfs/charlebois284-292.pdf

Elderberries shortened the length of the flu by 4 days while reducing the severity of symptoms.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15080016

EVIDENCE OF EFFECTIVENESS WITH ANOTHER CORONAVIRUS
Then we see evidenced with this study, that was done in an animal population, that it was effective against a coronavirus. (Named “corona” for it’s crown shaped appearance.) Although not the same as a human study it still shines a light into elderberry’s widespread viral fighting benefits.

Elderberry was shown to be effective against a coronavirus.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3899428/

ELDERBERRY IS IN THE TOP 5 FOR QUERCETIN CONTAINING FOODS
Elderberry is great for allergies, blocks histamine and is a mast cell stabilizer. This is likely in part because of it’s high quercetin content. This is also a pretty big deal as quercetin is actually being trialed as a treatment for covid-19. I’m an herbalist so I prefer using plants in their whole form so I can reap ALL of their benefits. Yet quercetin is clearly one of elderberry’s strongest benefits.

Quercetin being trialed as an antiviral for covid-19.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-feb-28-2020-1.5479561/as-coronavirus-spread-speeds-up-montreal-researchers-will-trial-an-anti-viral-treatment-for-covid-19-in-china-1.5480134

HIGH SOURCE OF VITAMIN C
It’s fairly well accepted now that Vitamin C is helpful in combatting colds and flus. Elderberry is a high vitamin c fruit. This is also helpful from a histamine/mast cell perspective as well as vitamin c is a powerful antihistamine and mast cell stabilizer.

Vitamin C reduced symptoms of cold and flu.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10543583

IS ELDERBERRY HARMFUL FOR THOSE WITH AUTOIMMUNE ILLNESSES
This is a really valid question and deserves some clarification as there are lots of half truths floating around out there. People get, and pass on, snippets of information and imo it’s important to make fully informed choices. So, yes, elderberry can potentially push th1 dominance. Many autoimmune conditions are considered to be th1 dominant, but not all. Even illnesses considered to be classically th1 dominant are often found to have th2 influence. For those of us with mast cell and histamine issues, allergies and etc those tend to push us into to th2 dominance. This is one of the reasons elderberry is so effective in stabilizing mast cells and is an excellent antihistamine. (Thanks to high amounts of quercetin and C in particular!) People don’t typically sit in either th1 or th2 dominance all the time though. It’s not a said and done static thing. People can float back and forth over months and years of illness and healing. I suffered from Lupus and Mast Cell and there were times that elderberry (and likely other simultaneous factors) flared inflammation for me. During those times I stopped using elderberry daily and only used it for rescue at the onset of mast cell or viral symptoms. Unfortunately the water is muddy here and it’s up to each of you to make thoughtful fully informed choices about how, or if, to use elderberry with your current set of circumstances. But lets discuss this a bit more below…

Changes in th1/th2 cytokine dominance in rheumatoid arthritis.
https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/article/39/5/513/1784044

DOES ELDERBERRY CAUSE CYTOKINE STORMS?
This is coming up a lot lately and I’m including the research that is initiating the concern below. It seems that one article, taken a bit out of context, may have convinced people elderberry is bad for the flu. First it’s important to note that cytokines can be both inflammatory and anti-inflammatory. It’s not as simple as cytokines are bad and cause inflammation. Like anything else they work in delicate balance to keep the immune system functioning properly. Elderberry increases both inflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines. Cytokine storms still aren’t well understood. But the problem seems to arise when someone’s body doesn’t get the message that it’s time for that immune response to settle down. Which could happen in an extended illness, or when things become more systemic, etc. Again, most of us are typically th2 dominant a lot of the time. So that pushing of th1, and the riling up of the innate and adaptive immune responses, is normally helpful. In the case of viral onset inducing that immune response, the macrophages and etc is essential in being able to stamp out the virus. For without that response an infection will just run us over. Which is why those with CVID, that can’t mount a good immune response, are so susceptible to various infections. I personally would watch for any evidence of an overabundance of inflammatory cytokines over an extended period of time. When inflammatory cytokines and macrophages are doing there job, in most cases, that comes with a fever and inflammation. (Which by the way is useful so why do so many people try to stop fevers?) An initial short lived fever is the body doing it’s job in my opinion. If that became an extended, or very high fever, or there were other signs of high systemic inflammation and distress I definitely would not personally choose to continue using elderberry. For the many of you that have trouble mounting an appropriate immune response like I do, that maybe rarely if never get a fever like I do, elderberry is quite useful. It’s helping to mount the response our body should be able to mount on it’s own but can’t. Again, it’s all in assessing your own personal situation and from a fully informed standpoint.

Elderberry induces the production of inflammatory cytokines.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11399518

Elderberry increases inflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12455180

Elderberry, cytokines and the immune response.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5372600/

ELDERBERRY INHIBITS VIRAL REPLICATION
Here’s the good one I promised! Last year elderberry was found to stop viral replication. That’s very exciting news! Stopping replication is really where elderberry’s power lies I suspect. I see this evidenced in my own use as my stints with cold and typical flu viruses are barely a blip anymore. Usually lasting about 48 hours depending on how run down I am, if I’m under any stress and whether or not I increased my use from maintenance to rescue quickly enough. (More on that below.) Avoiding cellular replication of a virus throughout the body, including in the lungs, which are being hit hard by covid is the ultimate goal. If we can stop covid-19 in it’s tracks there well that’s something to be very thankful for. I’m sure I’ll begin to hear stories trickle in on it’s effectiveness and will pass that on to you.

Elderberry blocks viruses from attaching to and getting into cells, thus inhibiting viral replication.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190423133644.htm

HOW TO USE ELDERBERRY
Timely ingestion is key and why my family uses it daily during cold and flu season. It is the viral replication piece mentioned above that I believe explains my typical response to a virus. I feel fatigued, get the sniffles or have a family member or friend around me that is ill. I go from taking my daily dose of elderberry to taking it 3-4x daily. Within 48 hours my symptoms are typically gone. I believe this is the blockage of viral replication at play. (My personal opinion.) With this coronavirus, viral replication could be happening silently, before people are even symptomatic. (Again, my educated take on it.) I don’t think this is hugely different than how most flus operate but I think there is more at stake when covid-19 goes undetected. There are many reported cases of people going from asymptomatic to having double pneumonia and fighting for their lives in a matter of a couple of days or even several hours. Which seems to be an indication, (not by just my opinion but doctors and scientists have spoken about this), that it’s replicating very quickly. The one time I got pneumonia was the year I sold myself short of elderberry and wasn’t using it daily. Within 2 days both my son and I had pneumonia. So my suggestion is to use it daily if at all possible. If not try to stay in tune with your body so you can start taking it at onset for best benefits. When using it for viral fighting increase the daily to 3-4x daily, continuing until at least 48hrs after symptoms have resolved.

So… to elder or not to elder. That’s up to you and now you can make a well informed decision!

DISCLAIMER All information provided in this post is for educational purposes and does not seek to diagnose or treat. Some opinions are personal and have been noted as such. Please consult with your medical team regarding any changes to your protocol and to see if elderberry is right for you.

Thank you Younique Healing for the in depth info


----------



## Simpleterrier

Sooooo anyways back to how it's affecting us. Our school district has stated we will have online school at home untill October. So we will probably be home schooling this year with our own lessons.

Fairs have been shut down. Except for 4h animal shows family only.

They want u to wear mask I'm still not and have no problem with social distancing.

And for a comment on the last 3 pages of postings.

Why doesn't anyone know why does everything change? Some people think we are sooo smart. But if u actually think about it most of what we do in life is a gamble or a guess or an assumption. Try this medicine get this test one Dr says one thing another says something else. So we say science is always correct follow science we have to trust the drs and science. Why do two different people get so mad and take two different sides and they both think they are right. Hmmmm maybe cause no one knows and it's all opinions or science.

I think we should stop guessing and worrying. We all die some time. I'm content with it. ARE YOU?

Most of the people I know who are having difficulties right know are worried about death and don't want to die. But sorry everyone is going to and u can't say when. I am not a health nut but I don't destroy my body either. I'm here to live my life and to die with my boots on not hiding in a bunker or behind a mask (unless I'm playing Zorro with my kids and I miss the jump from the roof to my horse)

Soo if u wanna hide and argue knock yourselves out.
But for me and my house we will live our lives.

And also. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord


----------



## rachels.haven

Looks like hydroxy chloroquine is going away as a covid treatment because studies show it increases mortality. More for people who need it, I guess. Remdesivir is staying for now. I wonder where this will end/what the "winning" drug will be here. This feels like a really morbid horse race that we're all forced to have a horse in.

In Popular Science








						The verdict on hydroxychloroquine is in
					

The controversial drug hydroxychloroquine has more and more evidence piling up against it, but some are still trying to push for it to work.




					www.popsci.com
				



.


----------



## Baymule

I looked up the side effects of  hydroxy chloroquine when it hit the news. I was astounded at how bad the list was.


----------



## promiseacres

I am exhausted by the thought that a cotton mask might protect anyone from a microscopic virus. Absolutely wears on my mental state that we are to be afraid of all other people. Praying for some normalcy...but I doubt it happen soon.


----------



## Bunnylady

A simple cotton mask won't do a lot to protect_ you, _for that, you need something professional grade, like an N95. However, a cotton mask can make a significant contribution toward protecting other folks_ from _you, if you happen to be one of those infamous asymptomatic carriers, by absorbing the moisture droplets you exhale and thus catching the virus before it gets out where other people can pick it up.


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## OneFineAcre

It's pretty interesting to me that we have been under a mandatory mask order here in NC for 6 weeks now  (June 26th) yet the number of infections keep going up.  It seems to indicate that wearing masks does not stop the spread of the virus.

Not surprising.  One of the studies that I read found that mandatory masking would have *minimal effect* if implemented after day 51 of an outbreak.  I think by June 26th we 100 +/- or so days into the outbreak


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## OneFineAcre

I read something today in regards to hydroxy chloroquine.
It pointed out that that the side effects of chemotherapy are pretty bad. 
And, chemotherapy helps some cancer patients but not others.  
And, that chemotherapy can actually kill you.


----------



## Bunnylady

OneFineAcre said:


> And, that chemotherapy can actually kill you.



It may have more or less killed my father-in-law. He had lung cancer; it had reached a pretty advanced stage before it was diagnosed, so he probably wasn't long for this world anyway. He had a horrible reaction to the chemo - I didn't see it, but from what I was told, it almost sounded like chloracne. Within days, he had pneumonia, less than 2 weeks later, he was dead.



OneFineAcre said:


> we have been under a mandatory mask order here in NC for 6 weeks now



And yet, I cannot count the number of people I see in stores without masks, or wearing them improperly. The folks around here are not going to ask if someone has a physical or mental health issue that prevents them from wearing a mask; it would be almost as bad as asking a senior citizen if she really needs to use the battery-powered grocery cart.  There are currently many ongoing clusters/outbreaks at numerous "congregate living facilities," which include nursing homes and prisons, as well as quite a few that are centered at schools and daycare facilities. People get together in all manner of social situations, and especially when alcohol is involved, they often don't bother with a mask or anything resembling social distancing. Unless you could prove that there was 100% compliance with the mask order (and we know there isn't!), you can't draw any conclusions about the efficacy of mask wearing from the current numbers - which actually have slightly decreased during the last month.


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## OneFineAcre

I don't know where you are seeing numbers that have decreased in the last month


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## Bunnylady

OneFineAcre said:


> I don't know where you are seeing numbers that have decreased in the last month



July 1 - 7 average daily new cases was 1600.
August 1 - 7 average daily new cases was 1523.
Source - NCDHHS


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## OneFineAcre

Bunnylady said:


> July 1 - 7 average daily new cases was 1600.
> August 1 - 7 average daily new cases was 1523.
> Source - NCDHHS



I guess that's better than if it was higher, but I'm not sure that's really significant.


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## Bunnylady

Well, I did say, "slightly decreased." It certainly isn't time to start celebrating yet, and with schools working on reopening, the fact that there were approximately 550 fewer North Carolinians testing positive during the first week of August than in the first week of July could vanish under an avalanche of new cases by the end of the month. But the rate of increase (or not) is one of the things they look at when it comes to deciding whether to impose or ease restrictions. We know that putting virtually every citizen under what is effectively house arrest stops the spread (it worked for China), but that is devastating to an economy and very hard on the people. We don't _really_ want that, do we? They are trying to achieve a balance between protecting people and letting people get on with their lives, and masks are a part of that.

As someone pointed out, most people who get Covid-19 don't die; some never even know they've been infected. A lot who do show symptoms experience only mild ones. But for some, particularly for those with chronic health issues like smoking, obesity, diabetes, or simply having lived a long life, infection by SARS Cov-2 can mean weeks of struggling to breathe, and then weeks or months more spent just building up the strength to feel like a functional human being again. I don't know about the country as a whole, but well over half of the people living in North Carolina fall into one or more of the "at risk" groups, and just because you don't doesn't mean you can ignore this thing - there have been just enough young, as-far-as-anyone-could-tell-healthy people who have become seriously ill or even died to show that we all need to take it seriously.

So, for cryin' out loud, people. Wash your hands. Wear a mask. Maintain an awkwardly large personal space. You may be willing to risk your own life, but the lives you are protecting may not be your own!


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## OneFineAcre

Bunnylady said:


> Well, I did say, "slightly decreased." It certainly isn't time to start celebrating yet, and with schools working on reopening, the fact that there were approximately 550 fewer North Carolinians testing positive during the first week of August than in the first week of July could vanish under an avalanche of new cases by the end of the month. But the rate of increase (or not) is one of the things they look at when it comes to deciding whether to impose or ease restrictions. We know that putting virtually every citizen under what is effectively house arrest stops the spread (it worked for China), but that is devastating to an economy and very hard on the people. We don't _really_ want that, do we? They are trying to achieve a balance between protecting people and letting people get on with their lives, and masks are a part of that.
> 
> As someone pointed out, most people who get Covid-19 don't die; some never even know they've been infected. A lot who do show symptoms experience only mild ones. But for some, particularly for those with chronic health issues like smoking, obesity, diabetes, or simply having lived a long life, infection by SARS Cov-2 can mean weeks of struggling to breathe, and then weeks or months more spent just building up the strength to feel like a functional human being again. I don't know about the country as a whole, but well over half of the people living in North Carolina fall into one or more of the "at risk" groups, and just because you don't doesn't mean you can ignore this thing - there have been just enough young, as-far-as-anyone-could-tell-healthy people who have become seriously ill or even died to show that we all need to take it seriously.
> 
> So, for cryin' out loud, people. Wash your hands. Wear a mask. Maintain an awkwardly large personal space. You may be willing to risk your own life, but the lives you are protecting may not be your own!




They lost me when they said all the rioting was OK.   Oh, that's right it was "peacful protesting", my bad.
It seems to me, that's what jump started the spread of the virus.

But, you go with what works for you.  

Stay safe.


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## Bunnylady

You, too. I hope Isaias wasn't too rough on you?


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## OneFineAcre

Bunnylady said:


> You, too. I hope Isaias wasn't too rough on you?



No, not too bad.  
I slept through the earthquake this morning.
Only in NC do you have a hurricane and an earthquake in the same week.


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## Bunnylady

OneFineAcre said:


> No, not too bad.
> I slept through the earthquake this morning.
> Only in NC do you have a hurricane and an earthquake in the same week.



Yeah, I almost asked about that. I saw that apparently a lot of folks in Charlotte felt it, and was thinking that Zebulon was probably close enough. 5.1 is a pretty good-sized jolt - reckon a lot of folks didn't need a second cup of coffee to wake them up after that!


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## Baymule

No jar lids or any canning supplies at Walmart. Don’t need them, but need to restock.


----------



## promiseacres

Many of my friends that can are having issues finding them. Smaller hardware stores seem to be the best. Amazon has inflated prices insanely.


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## OneFineAcre

Probably the biggest effect covid 19 has had on my family is my 16 year old daughter, and the craziness regarding schools.
We made a big decision.
She's never been the greatest student in the world, so since everything has been forced online we decided it would work best for her if we just withdrew her from school and let her enroll in the adult education program at the community colllege and get a GED.   She's actually on pace to finish a year earlier than she would have high school, and can start at the same community college she's enrolled in for the GED.
She's also working 25 hours per week at a friend coffee shop/deli.  It was just driving her crazy being at home all the time.


----------



## Mini Horses

Sure were a lot more gardens & canning starts this year.   Some may keep at it.  Some may be people who got out of it, now back in.....like the chicks, chickens, freezers, Lysol and TP!   Who knew??  For how long??

It's good to see, actually.  Just a touch sudden!    

@OneFineAcre  I see that decision as a solid one.   My grandaughter spnt a year in school for the need of one credit.  I did that in my sr yr.  Waste of time.  Ahhh....DGD leaves for college this weekend.


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## Simpleterrier

So our governor got covid tested first one came back positive the second one a quick test came back negative. They got the results at the same time. 

You decide

Alot of people are pulling their kids and homeschooling.

We are


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## farmerjan

OneFineAcre said:


> Probably the biggest effect covid 19 has had on my family is my 16 year old daughter, and the craziness regarding schools.
> We made a big decision.
> She's never been the greatest student in the world, so since everything has been forced online we decided it would work best for her if we just withdrew her from school and let her enroll in the adult education program at the community colllege and get a GED.   She's actually on pace to finish a year earlier than she would have high school, and can start at the same community college she's enrolled in for the GED.
> She's also working 25 hours per week at a friend coffee shop/deli.  It was just driving her crazy being at home all the time.


That sounds like a good working situation for you all.  At that age, socialization is VERY MAJOR...... and if her school skills were not the best, maybe learning at her own pace is best.  If she is that far ahead, then it means it was the right decision.  Plus working, she is getting out, exposure to others and socializing in a controlled situation.  Good for her doing so good. And good for you guys as parents in seeing a "silver lining" out of all this insanity.


----------



## farmerjan

I think that homeschooling is a wise choice for many people.  Proved they could do it to some degree with the stay at home orders.... now finding that the kids are actually getting a better more rounded education.  And not around all the distractions, and trouble makers , and other "social problems"  ..... But now did you hear that Calf wants to make it illegal to "homeschool".... getting right back to the liberals wanting to control it and now it is backfiring on them.  I think that everyone that can, should homeschool.  Take back the control of your kids, their education, their attitudes, their health, and even their friends.  Give them work to do so they have responsibilities, and make them see that you have to be responsible for your actions and that life is not a free ride that "mommy and daddy" OWE to them.


----------



## Bunnylady

Simpleterrier said:


> So our governor got covid tested first one came back positive the second one a quick test came back negative.



Umm, I think you got that a bit mixed up. The rapid test (which is notoriously unreliable) was the first one, the one that came up positive; he's been tested twice since then with the slower, more reliable lab test, and both of those were negative.


----------



## rachels.haven

farmerjan said:


> I think that homeschooling is a wise choice for many people.  Proved they could do it to some degree with the stay at home orders.... now finding that the kids are actually getting a better more rounded education.  And not around all the distractions, and trouble makers , and other "social problems"  ..... But now did you hear that Calf wants to make it illegal to "homeschool".... getting right back to the liberals wanting to control it and now it is backfiring on them.  I think that everyone that can, should homeschool.  Take back the control of your kids, their education, their attitudes, their health, and even their friends.  Give them work to do so they have responsibilities, and make them see that you have to be responsible for your actions and that life is not a free ride that "mommy and daddy" OWE to them.



This is funny. The only homeschool mom I know here in Mass is the liberalist liberal of all time, and she's from California. She can't even stand the thought that the christian "God" is male and tries to teach everyone's kid he's female (Let it go and talk to your own kids later, I keep telling myself, she's a wackajob, but ooo, teaching my kids her own mess of doctrine is SOOO not her job). But I agree. California's uber rules are evil. They're on a plain of existence all on their own and just want to hold (and drag) you by the hand from birth to grave where they want you to go when. Idiots will idiot but it's not the state's job to stop them.


----------



## Duckfarmerpa1

@rachels.haven ...ok, if I knew someone who was trying to tell my kid tgat God is/was..whatever a lady...yes, I’d let it go too..but, man..what a goof...some thoughts...believes..practices..agendas need to be kept at home...That’s just my opinion....


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## rachels.haven

Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately she's married to DH's cousin, and he's nice, so I keep mostly quiet. However they keep that marriage together and try to keep her included in their very socially (not necessarily politically) conservative family circle, I'd like to stay out of the potential conflict.


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## Simpleterrier

Either way if it was the quick test or not it's just showing that the numbers are screwed up.


----------



## Bunnylady

News flash - science isn't perfect. The quick-and-dirty "point of care" tests have never been 100% accurate - 80-90% is about as good as they get - which is why most states only report the results from the more sensitive, but more time-consuming lab tests.


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## rachels.haven

If science were perfect they'd have a vaccine to give animals immunity to worms. I'd like that please.

Personally I'd probably avoid the quick test. It's been known to be shabby for a while. I'm still not sure why it's in use since it fails in both directions so frequently.


----------



## OneFineAcre

@Bunnylady 
We do seem to be on a downward trend here in NC.  Hope it continues.


----------



## farmerjan

Heard today that NY and PA are also talking that homeschooling should be against the law and that private charter schools should not be allowed unless they "meet certain guidelines"  .... and that kids that are being schooled at home need to work on laptops with videocams so that the teachers can monitor WHO is in the room with them and that parents SHOULD NOT be ALLOWED to decide on or control the information the kids are being taught.... 

PARDON ME  but  WTF??????


----------



## Bunnylady

Does the education system have an agenda? It would be incredibly naive to think it doesn't. But this isn't_ all _about indoctrination; there's an _amazing_ amount of ignorance running around. When you see the sort of things that get posted on the internet every day, the thought that some of these people might be the only source of information that some children have is terrifying. But, as to knowing who's in the room? When my kids were in school, several teachers told me of having projects turned in to them that were clearly above the ability level of any kid that age - some that they suspected were 100% the work of a parent. If parents would do their kids' homework for them, I could definitely see one feeding answers to a child taking a test - or even taking the test for them.


----------



## Bunnylady

OneFineAcre said:


> @Bunnylady
> We do seem to be on a downward trend here in NC.  Hope it continues.



It's hard to know exactly what those suddenly lower numbers represent - a post-hurricane glitch of some sort, perhaps? While I would love to believe that we really are heading in the right direction, I can't help but have a "waiting for the other shoe to drop" feeling. There are significantly fewer completed tests being reported, too - so are there fewer tests being taken, or is there a growing backlog of tests waiting to be run?


----------



## rachels.haven

Yes, they have an agenda. It appear they'd like to gut public schools, while making homeschool illegal and channeling kids into private and charter schools for profit. We need a new department of education head at least.

In michigan we had a recent incident a few miles from where I lived where a mom claimed to be homeschooling but in reality had put her children's bodies in the deep freezer where they stayed for months as she continued "homeschooling". After that the state required periodic check ins with homeschoolers to see if work was being done as a butt covering measure. It probably wouldn't save many kids lives in screwed up households, but I respect that it wasn't too heavy handed. Their charter and private schools are still a dime a dozen and here today, gone tomorrow, even if it's a school week night kind of affair and should not be the forced option for most kids. And very for profit, slime ball-esque. Inadequate to say the least.


----------



## Bunnylady

Hang on to your hats, folks; President Trump has just tested positive for Coronavirus. No idea whether he even has any symptoms (the articles don't say). But there's a saying, "when the president sneezes, Wall Street catches  a cold;" this is just what the country doesn't need right now.


----------



## Baymule

News just said the Dow dropped 500 points over night. Not good for people with 401K or investments.  

Several school districts in our area have given up on virtual learning, because the kids were not doing well. They are going back to in person, in the classroom teaching.


----------



## Bunnylady

Was it in Texas that I heard a nine-year-old was suspended for having a firearm on school property because the teacher saw he had a BB gun in his room? 

In-person learning is part of the next phase of reducing lockdown restrictions here in NC, and there are some people who are cheering, others who are stressing about it. While the numbers here have been better than they were in July, they aren't _that_ much better, and there is concern about a spike of unprecedented proportions when you get a whole bunch of young'uns in the same space for hours on end, then send them home to their families. The schools are getting tons of PPE's and cleaners/sanitizers as part of the preparations, hopefully that helps.


----------



## farmerjan

And kids are the least likely to come down with and to transmit this virus... that is established fact from many sources....one of the big differences with some of the other "pandemics" in the past.  
Am glad that I don't have kids at that age anymore.... or grand children.  They are back in school here, some places are alternating in and home school....one went back to totally virtual after a couple of weeks of in and out.... had 3 new cases and everyone had a cow over it.... a few are back in full time.  The charter school here is in full time and they are doing well.


----------



## messybun

On the bright side, people have been buying up chickens and livestock like crazy, I wonder if I can get a chicken rush this winter? Who else is waiting until the election is over so that the virus can go away? Maybe too political for byh, but seriously, when your entire running platform is we will fix the virus it seems more like politics than sickness. At least it has pushed back some of the anti-homeschool legislations, for a moment.


----------



## Bunnylady

messybun said:


> it seems more like politics than sickness.



And the foolishness of that astounds me. If there was ever a situation that should call for a unified response, a *global* pandemic ought to qualify. Instead, we get politics as usual, where every move gets weighed and delayed lest the other guys might reap some benefit, and a President accuses his own advisors of deliberately undermining him when they won't say the things that he considers to be politically advantageous.


----------



## Baymule

All you can do is stay stocked up on food and necessities-for us that means animal feed! LOL LOL We have our go to town bag with masks, sanitizer and wipes. It’s going to be a tough winter, in many different ways.


----------



## Baymule

Bunnylady said:


> Was it in Texas that I heard a nine-year-old was suspended for having a firearm on school property because the teacher saw he had a BB gun in his room?.


I hadn't heard that one. Dear Lord, PLEASE don't let stupid people like that move to TEXAS!


----------



## farmerjan

There was nothing wrong with a student having a BB gun in his own room if the parents were aware of it.  It is NOT the duty of the teacher to decide what is permissable in a child's room.... it is NOT a public school room.  That is just one more example of the amount of control they want to have..  I'd love to have a "classroom setting" in a den that has antique rifles on the wall and a couple of gun safes tucked into the corners....just for conversation pieces... Frost a few ......

Seems like there are too many stupid people leaving Ca and other states and moving to states that they then go and change.... Va is getting more and more like that from all the dumbells that come to Wash DC and then buy out in the country and now have turned a red,  ag state to a bunch of stupid blue know nothing anti everything sensible state...
There was a child whose teacher saw a TOY gun in the background.... and reported to a supervisor, said it was a toy gun.... it was like blue or pink or some way out color.....but that they needed to bring it to the parents attention.... got reported to "authorities".... caused all sorts of grief for the parents, everything....
I would not allow my child to be on a virtual camera for schoolwork if I was not present.... and would have it in a room where there was nothing in the background but bare wall..... there are several places that say the parents cannot be in the same room....???? NOT IN THIS LIFETIME.... I would be homeschooling my son if it were me.  I think that I would have done it when mine was younger if I hadn't gotten divorced and had to work.... then moved here and would have rather had him here in school with the "country folks and rednecks in this area"... but he stayed with his father and it's long since past.... Schooling has changed so much, have friends in the school system, and the BS and paperwork they go through.... don't do near as much "teaching" as they used to... Sad situation.


----------



## Baymule

Covid is back at sickening thousands daily, many are not making it. We have had friends with it, a dear friend that is like a daughter to us is in the hospital now, she has kidney disease and is high risk. She is doing better and may get to go home soon.

Our daughter is a college professor, son in law is an assistant principle, 13 year old grand daughter in 8th grade, the whole 9th grade got sent home because of Covid cases, 5 year old is in kindergarden, 4 year old in day care, they are ALL exposed daily to the risk of Covid. They are in Odessa, Texas, surrounded by hot spots and shut downs. It is just a matter of time before Odessa shuts down too. We are very worried about them.

Our county is exploding with Covid cases, as are surrounding counties. We have a friend that is a nurse, working the Covid floor(s). This stuff is bad. The medications have at least gotten better, rapid response and treatment gets better results than the previous "go home, if you get worse, come back" of last year.

So....... how's it going for everyone? Hope all are well and suffer no sickness.

Thanksgiving? What are your plans? We were planning on gathering at my sister's house in Conroe, now not so sure. Her husband died this year, she has been in a funk and looking forward to Thanksgiving. She has COPD, polymyocitus and other conditions that make her high risk. Our daughter is afraid to go, with all their exposure, she doesn't want to take Covid to her favorite relative. She is thinking that Christmas might be better, they can all get tested and have time to get the results. Maybe.

It's all up in the air, hard to make plans. We want to get together to solidify family ties, visit and enjoy each other, buuuut........ It is scary, sure don't want to sicken our host and worse, she succumb to Covid and die. Yes, this is real and the reality is not pleasant.


----------



## Stephine

Baymule said:


> Covid is back at sickening thousands daily, many are not making it. We have had friends with it, a dear friend that is like a daughter to us is in the hospital now, she has kidney disease and is high risk. She is doing better and may get to go home soon.
> 
> Our daughter is a college professor, son in law is an assistant principle, 13 year old grand daughter in 8th grade, the whole 9th grade got sent home because of Covid cases, 5 year old is in kindergarden, 4 year old in day care, they are ALL exposed daily to the risk of Covid. They are in Odessa, Texas, surrounded by hot spots and shut downs. It is just a matter of time before Odessa shuts down too. We are very worried about them.
> 
> Our county is exploding with Covid cases, as are surrounding counties. We have a friend that is a nurse, working the Covid floor(s). This stuff is bad. The medications have at least gotten better, rapid response and treatment gets better results than the previous "go home, if you get worse, come back" of last year.
> 
> So....... how's it going for everyone? Hope all are well and suffer no sickness.
> 
> Thanksgiving? What are your plans? We were planning on gathering at my sister's house in Conroe, now not so sure. Her husband died this year, she has been in a funk and looking forward to Thanksgiving. She has COPD, polymyocitus and other conditions that make her high risk. Our daughter is afraid to go, with all their exposure, she doesn't want to take Covid to her favorite relative. She is thinking that Christmas might be better, they can all get tested and have time to get the results. Maybe.
> 
> It's all up in the air, hard to make plans. We want to get together to solidify family ties, visit and enjoy each other, buuuut........ It is scary, sure don't want to sicken our host and worse, she succumb to Covid and die. Yes, this is real and the reality is not pleasant.


Oufff. We have been basically sheltering in place since the beginning of March now. Hubby is over 65 and I have hashimoto‘s, which is an autoimmune disease. Oldest back from college doing all work online, younger one doing Junior year in highschool remotely. We don’t even go out to shop, it’s all delivery or curbside pick up. Thank God we have the farm to move around in the open air - I feel so bad for people stuck in apartments in crowded cities... I feel worse for the doctors and nurses...
The more we learn about this illness the more I don’t want anyone to get it. Latest finding was that it affects the brain so much it ages it by about 10 years. And so many mental health issues, in addition to the organ damage.
I think your daughter is right, this year (and hopefully it is just this year!) we should all just stay put. There is no safe get together unless you are all outside, wearing masks and at least 6ft away from each other. Indoors the virus stays suspended in the air for up to 14! hours. 
I had a couple of very stressful weeks last month when my brother and his wife got covid back in Germany. I found out from my 82 year old mom, that my brother who was visiting her for the weekend, had left again after about 6hrs there, because he got a call from public health to let him know he had been exposed. Two days before driving up to see our mom he and his wife had spent two hours with their (asymptomatic) neighbors in their apartment, talking about issues with the landlords, while staying more than 6 feet apart. The neighbors now had been diagnosed with covid. I was so mad! Of course it’s not a good idea to share the air with people outside of your household for hours! I have no idea what they were thinking... Anyway, my brother and his wife both got sick (luckily they haven’t needed to be hospitalized and are slowly getting their strength back now), and we got to spend two weeks praying that my mother wouldn’t come down with it, too. Thank the Lord, she didn’t. Luckily it was early enough in my brother’s course of illness that he didn’t spread a high load of virus yet, but it was a close call. Had he visited a day or two later it would have been a different story. Can you imagine the guilt if you exposed a loved one and they got seriously ill or worse? I wouldn’t want anyone to live with that. As Glennon Doyle Melton says: “We can do hard things.“ With the vaccine on the horizon and other promising medications (like a nasal spray virus blocker) being developed, it hopefully won’t be too long.


----------



## Mike CHS

Not long ago I often said that I didn't know anyone who had gotten the virus but that has changed now.  We only have 4 neighbors within a mile of us and all 4 of the families have several members who have had it now.

We have a turkey breast that I will be smoking on Thanksgiving and it will just be Teresa and I in our "gathering".


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## promiseacres

My current thoughts as covid cases are rising locally...
what happened to the flu?
And I have heard from medical staff that the quick test is only 40% accurate, the one that takes a day is 60%...
Does this not alarm anyone of the false positives?
We are likely just having my Dad over for Thanksgiving.... hoping my daughter gets her birthday party with family but who knows.... I did score a frozen turkey for less than $6, Kroger had them for .33 a pound... I should have bought another.


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## Grant

I’m working in Oregon right now. They are going to go into a shutdown starting next week.  Living in a hotel is tough with no restaurants open.  Drive thru and pick up can be open, but from what I’m hearing, a good portion will just close permanently.


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## Bunnylady

promiseacres said:


> My current thoughts as covid cases are rising locally...
> what happened to the flu?
> And I have heard from medical staff that the quicktest is only 40% accurate, the one that takes a day is 60%...
> Does this not alarm anyone of the false positives?



Flu is still 'out there,' of course, which is why they've been pushing harder than ever for people to get a flu shot this year. Could you imagine the ghastliness of trying to fight two respiratory infections at the same time?  Plus, with a health care system already dealing with a surge of coronavirus patients, anything to reduce the total case load is to the good. Of course, you get influenza the same way as you get Covid -19 (from other people), so the same measures that help to protect you from one (masks, handwashing, keeping your distance, limiting exposure to other people generally) work for the other as well.

The false positives only alarm me in that some non-infected people may wind up self-isolating unnecessarily, possibly  missing out on a paycheck they may desperately need. And some people may erroneously assume that since they have already had it, they can forget about protective measures, exposing themselves even more to the possibility of catching it for real (and possibly passing it along to other people, believing that, whatever their symptoms, it can't possibly be Covid -19  . . . which is the risk created by false negatives, too).


----------



## Simpleterrier

I'm sorry there is too many lies about this whole thing.

Facts
1. 99.9% recovery rate
2. Every symptom under the sun is covid
3. Getting tested and a true result is 00.1%
4. Family and friends fighting over it all
5. Businesses closing forever
6.muder,drugs, alcohol,and domestic violence up
7.shortage in the stores again

So the economy is bad. We have had the best financial year ever. Everywhere I look there is houses going up, pull barns, additions, poured driveways. There is alot of money being spent on alot of things. You couldnt bye a swimming pool to save your life this summer. The fences I see if love to know how many miles of new woven wire fences I've seen this year most of it 2x4 no climb. There isn't a house on the market for 2 days before they are sold over priced.


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## frustratedearthmother

Simpleterrier said:


> 1. 99.9% recovery rate


I believe your fact is incorrect.

I couldn't get the chart to copy so I took a screen shot.  Hard to see but in the US as of today this indicates that the fatality rate is 2.3%.  That's considerably higher than  00.1 as you suggest.









						Mortality Risk of COVID-19
					

Our interactive data visualizations that show the case fatality rate in each country are updated daily.




					ourworldindata.org
				









Found a link to another chart that may be easier to read:








						Mortality Analyses - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
					

How does mortality differ across countries? Examining the number of deaths per confirmed case and per 100,000 population. A global comparison.




					coronavirus.jhu.edu


----------



## Grant

I’ve seen that .1% other places.  It is based on the population, so to be true you would have to assume that every person in the US has had COVID.  I’m not an alarmist by any means.  You’ve got the total shutdown states and the do nothing states.  The real answer to this is certainly somewhere in between.


----------



## Mini Horses

Anyone else use germ sprays?  I find Microban to have a less obtrusive odor that dissipates well.   Lysol has been a standby here during any time a household member has been sick.  Has seemed to help keeping others from sharing.....some of the time.   I spray and leave.  LOL.  Settled by time I get back inside.   I use it in my truck on work days.   It's only "exposure" days use.


----------



## Mike CHS

Lysol has been our go-to.

I will never know but I'm curious how history will record this last couple of years.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Mike CHS said:


> I will never know but I'm curious how history will record this last couple of years.


DH and I had that conversation last night.  I also wonder how our grandchildren will recount these times to their own children and grandchildren.


----------



## rachels.haven

farmerjan said:


> I would not allow my child to be on a virtual camera for schoolwork if I was not present....



Good idea. That's our policy and I recommend it.We've already had issues with teachers lashing out inappropriately at students and displaying not very adult conduct so my children are now chaperoned at all times unless I personally know and trust the teacher...and even then, kids sometimes need "help" behaving and staying on task anyway so if I know and like the teacher I'll still be there 99% of the time.


----------



## farmerjan

There is a recent article in the "Guardian" that popped up on my laptop that I read.  It is by a dr about how we use way too much soap and how we have been systemetically destroying our natural "biomes" of our bodies.  He makes a reference to how without the natural interaction of the body's defense systems, we are actually lowering our ability to fight off disease.  Interesting read, and now I cannot find the link but will try to pull it up again.


----------



## Bunnylady

rachels.haven said:


> kids sometimes need "help" behaving and staying on task



I've probably said it a hundred times by now, I am so glad I don't have to deal with this with kids in school. Distance learning hasn't been terribly successful around here. The system works like this: each class has a certain number of kids in it. On Monday and Tuesday, half of the kids (the "A" group) are in the classroom, and the other half (the "B" group) are at home, attending via computer. On Thursday and Friday, the "B" group are in the classroom, and the "A" group are attending virtually. I believe the parents did have the option of having their students attend virtually all the time, but being in the classroom all week was not an option (though I think there are some exceptions to this). Report cards for the first grading period went out about a week ago, and at least a third of the students are failing in at least one class (with black and Hispanic students, it's more than half). Some of this is probably because the students don't have a home environment that is conducive to learning (some may not have access to a computer, though efforts have been made to deal with that), and some may be because such a disrupted schedule is itself a source of distraction.


----------



## OneFineAcre

We'v been under a mask mandate in NC for 5 months and had our highest number of daily infections one day last week.  The numbers have been going up for weeks.

It appears that the mask mandate isn't working.

Some people are arguing that it isn't working because everyone isn't complying.  I'm not sure I buy that.

If you said that it hasn't *stopped* the spread because everyone isn't wearing them then OK.

But, if the number of infections are *going up* and 60 - 70 percent are wearing masks, then that would indicated that it isn't working.

Wouldn't 60 - 70 percent compliance at least keep the number flat?


----------



## Mini Horses

Wouldn't it be nice if any infected could just light up in a blue glow so we could identify and avoid?       glow would leave when virus did.

IMO many things help but none totally stop this crap.   Some individuals are also more or less suseptable to being sick....immune systems, socializations, exposures, personal disinfectant efforts, work requirements and so on...   A real puzzle for the masses.


----------



## Baymule

Glow worms! Yeah!


----------



## Jennbramlett

Jesusfreak101 said:


> We the same we tend to shop for an entire month then stay home. We need son e more feed but i also but that in bulk just because i don't like shopping with kids also because i spend less when i go less. I tend to think if it's just like a cold which is what the symptoms seem to mimic i am not sure why everyone freaking out. I am not interested in getting sick or my kids getting sick no matter the illness but i refuse to be afraid of something that may or may not happen. I more prone not to stress or worry over what i have no control over.


Same here. I have not missed any work or changed anything I do normally


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## Grant

I don’t think anything we do will stop it.  Slow it, maybe, not stop.   They are claiming 90-95% effectiveness of the vaccines.  1, I doubt it. 2 how long will it last if it is effective.  Why don’t we have a vaccine for the common cold?   Our bodies can’t sustain the antibodies once we have them. They leave once the virus is gone.  We won’t know if a vaccine is effective like the small pox vaccine or if it is short lived, months of immunity only, for quite some time.


----------



## Baymule

The vaccine will probably be like the flu vaccine, always chasing last year's flu and nothing in it for the mutations of this year. I have never had a flu shot and am on the fence for the covid shot. If I decide to get one, I'll let a whole lot of people go ahead of me so I can determine what side effects there may be. Not that they would be publicized anyway......


----------



## Bunnylady

Geez, Bay, feeling a bit cynical this morning?

https://www.wect.com/2020/11/17/som...irus-is-real-even-theyre-dying-sd-nurse-says/

Follow the twitter hyperlink if you dare - it's a pretty grim picture of what life "on the front lines" feels like.


----------



## Baymule

Bunnylady said:


> Geez, Bay, feeling a bit cynical this morning?
> 
> https://www.wect.com/2020/11/17/som...irus-is-real-even-theyre-dying-sd-nurse-says/
> 
> Follow the twitter hyperlink if you dare - it's a pretty grim picture of what life "on the front lines" feels like.


I had already read about that. What stupidity to lay dying with Covid and insist it is something else. I have friends on the front lines as nurses and they tell me what is real and Covid is REAL, wear the dam%ed mask! Then here comes a rushed, hurry up, vaccine. Pardon me if I am not first in line for it.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

DH is a retired nurse and spent most of his years in management roles.  Every day (multiple times a day) he gets emails and texts from recruiters looking for nurses.  Just today he got one offering $55 - $70 an hour, 50 hours a week, all transportation, housing and food supplied.  The placement would be in El Paso.  He gave me that look that says he wants to do it.  He's wanted to go help since this pandemic started - it's the nurse in him, not the lure of the money.  

That says something about how desperate places are for skilled help.  Of course - I said no.


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> here comes a rushed, hurry up, vaccine. Pardon me if I am not first in line for it.



As someone who probably hasn't ever taken a prescription drug without experiencing at least one side effect, I can't blame you for being cautious. But all medications include lists like "these are known side effects that you may experience but don't need to worry about," and "get thee to a hospital if you experience_ these_ side effects" in that tiny mouse-print insert that comes with them, and also in an easier-to-read handout that the pharmacist gives you.  When my kids got their shots for school, the doctor made us wait around in the office for about a half hour after giving the shot to watch for signs of a severe adverse reaction, and gave me a paper about the whys and wherefores of immunization and what to watch out for before they did it. Moderna has already mentioned possible side effects of its vaccine (fatigue, aches), and AstraZeneca briefly halted their trials for a review when one of their human guinea pigs died (of coronavirus; he turned out to be in the placebo group). One of the criticisms that I have seen frequently about the Russian vaccine is that they are going too fast (notice the pun that I avoided with great effort) and aren't checking all the boxes about safety and efficacy before trying to get this thing on the market.

Yes, of course, everybody wants to be the first and rake in whatever profits are to be made, but it seems to me that there is an unprecedented level of transparency about this.


----------



## Baymule

@frustratedearthmother i thought about you and your wonderful husband as I read this horror story. Good wife for saying no. 









						A nurse at a strained El Paso hospital says the sickest COVID-19 patients are put in a doctor-less room called 'the pit' where they are given 3 chances to be revived before workers let them die
					

Lawanna Rivers, a travel nurse, said the University Medical Center of El Paso so far had been her worst posting of the coronavirus pandemic by far.




					www.businessinsider.com


----------



## Baymule

Our daughter and family live in Odessa, Tx. They are right up against Midland, surrounded by hot spots, Amarillo, Lubbock, El Paso. Midland has brought in refrigerated trucks to hold the bodies of the dead. Midland refuses to enforce any mask mandate.

So this is where it gets real. Our 13 year old granddaughter sat between 2 kids in school, in multiple classes, both of whom have Covid. Granddaughter was wearing a mask, so she is still allowed to go to school. The CDC said she may still catch Covid.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Baymule said:


> @frustratedearthmother i thought about you and your wonderful husband as I read this horror story. Good wife for saying no.


He has nurse's guilt for not being able to help....  I'm just glad he's retired.


----------



## promiseacres

@Baymule I thought covid positive students weren't allowed in school??  We've a mask mandate for months now... cases are rising. I wouldn't trust them before or after.  The news mentioned that schools are fine, that no one is getting covid there (they have put entire classes to online if someone in the class is positive) But we still aren't to see our families.... that's where people are getting it... from your friends and family. Not at the store or school....
IDK it just sucks. very glad we homeschool.


----------



## Stephine

Please do read this. My heart breaks for the doctors and nurses. So many have been separated from their families, sleeping in cars, garages, hotels. And people aren’t willing to put on a mask or keep social distance because it is uncomfortable.... oufff. 

(from the NYT today)

“Health care workers are begging us

As the pandemic rages across the United States, breaking records nearly every day for deaths and cases, some nurses and doctors are reaching a breaking point.

Some have battled surges in their areas for months. Others have been more recently overwhelmed. Many are physically and emotionally drained and suffer from a crushing sense of inadequacy and anxiety. Experts say health care workers are ever more susceptible to post-traumatic stress. Some are closing their practices or leaving their jobs because of the toll on themselves, their families, their patients and their colleagues.

Particularly anguishing, some health care workers say, is the cavalier attitude many Americans display toward the virus.

“There is such a disconnect between the hospital and the surrounding communities,” one doctor wrote in an exchange later posted on Twitter. “I don’t drive home to bells, whistles and clanging pots and pans … I drive home stunned through a college town with lines out the doors for the local bars.”

In an attempt to break through that disconnect, about 100 of the nation’s largest and best hospital groups released an ad campaign today, in print and video, that is a call to arms — or rather, a call to mask up.

“We put our lives on the line daily to keep you safe. So, do something for us. Wear. A. Mask,” a caption in the video reads.

I reached out to Ashley Bartholomew, a registered nurse who recently resigned from her job in a Covid ward at an El Paso hospital, but stayed on for another two weeks because of the desperate need. She said identifying a single breaking point was difficult, but told me about an exchange with a patient who was improving.

She went into his room in full P.P.E. as he was watching the national news cover El Paso’s need for more mobile morgues.

“He said the news is making it a bigger deal than it really is,” she recalled. She tried to remain professional, but couldn’t hold back her tears. “I said: ‘You know, I’ll be brutally honest. This is my last shift and I’ve never seen so much death, so much sickness, in the last two weeks than I have my entire 10 years of being in health care.’”

Taken aback, the patient said he thought everyone in the ward was doing as well as he was. Of the 25 rooms she had been in that day, she told him, he was the only patient able to chat. Everyone else was too sick.

“This is a pandemic within a pandemic,” she said. “A pandemic of misinformation along with the Covid-19 pandemic. And health care workers, we can’t fight both at the same time.”


----------



## Baymule

promiseacres said:


> @Baymule I thought covid positive students weren't allowed in school??  We've a mask mandate for months now... cases are rising. I wouldn't trust them before or after.  The news mentioned that schools are fine, that no one is getting covid there (they have put entire classes to online if someone in the class is positive) But we still aren't to see our families.... that's where people are getting it... from your friends and family. Not at the store or school....
> IDK it just sucks. very glad we homeschool.




They are not allowed in school. I guess the two kids that exposed our grand daughter felt bad and were tested. It is known that people shed virus before showing symptoms. Our granddaughter has been exposed, but is not showing symptoms. I know she was tested a few weeks ago, and probably has been tested again.


----------



## Beekissed

*Johns Hopkins Study Saying COVID-19 Has 'Relatively No Effect on Deaths' in U.S. Deleted After Publication


by MATT MARGOLIS NOV 27, 2020 11:24 AM ET







Conventional wisdom is that COVID-19 has caused thousands of deaths in the United States and nearly 1.5 million worldwide. This perception has been directly challenged by a study published by Johns Hopkins University on Sunday, November 22.

Genevieve Briand, assistant program director of the Applied Economics master’s degree program at Johns Hopkins University, critically analyzed the impact that COVID-19 had on U.S. deaths. According to her, the impact of COVID-19 on deaths in the United States can be fully understood by comparing it to the number of total deaths in the country.

According to study, “in contrast to most people’s assumptions, the number of deaths by COVID-19 is not alarming. In fact, it has relatively no effect on deaths in the United States.”
Wait, what? Really?

That’s what it says. And, it should come as no surprise that not long after the study was published it was deleted within days.

Luckily, a back-up copy remains on The Wayback Machine,* *and we can still read the study.
So, how exactly did the study conclude that COVID-19 has had “relatively no effect on deaths”? Here’s how the study made this determination:

After retrieving data on the CDC website, Briand compiled a graph representing percentages of total deaths per age category from early February to early September, which includes the period from before COVID-19 was detected in the U.S. to after infection rates soared.

Surprisingly, the deaths of older people stayed the same before and after COVID-19. Since COVID-19 mainly affects the elderly, experts expected an increase in the percentage of deaths in older age groups. However, this increase is not seen from the CDC data. In fact, the percentages of deaths among all age groups remain relatively the same.

According to Briand, “The reason we have a higher number of reported COVID-19 deaths among older individuals than younger individuals is simply because every day in the U.S. older individuals die in higher numbers than younger individuals.”

Briand’s analysis found that the range of deaths amongst the older population has remained within the range of past years.

So, if COVID-19 has actually had no significant impact on U.S. deaths, why does it not appear that way?*


> *To answer that question, Briand shifted her focus to the deaths per causes ranging from 2014 to 2020. There is a sudden increase in deaths in 2020 due to COVID-19. This is no surprise because COVID-19 emerged in the U.S. in early 2020, and thus COVID-19-related deaths increased drastically afterward.*





> *Analysis of deaths per cause in 2018 revealed that the pattern of seasonal increase in the total number of deaths is a result of the rise in deaths by all causes, with the top three being heart disease, respiratory diseases, influenza and pneumonia.*


“*This is true every year,” explained Briand. “Every year in the U.S. when we observe the seasonal ups and downs, we have an increase of deaths due to all causes.”
Here’s where things get interesting.*


> *When Briand looked at the 2020 data during that seasonal period, COVID-19-related deaths exceeded deaths from heart diseases. This was highly unusual since heart disease has always prevailed as the leading cause of deaths. However, when taking a closer look at the death numbers, she noted something strange. As Briand compared the number of deaths per cause during that period in 2020 to 2018, she noticed that instead of the expected drastic increase across all causes, there was a significant decrease in deaths due to heart disease. Even more surprising, as seen in the graph below, this sudden decline in deaths is observed for all other causes.*


*The study found that “This trend is completely contrary to the pattern observed in all previous years.” In fact, “the total decrease in deaths by other causes almost exactly equals the increase in deaths by COVID-19.”

Briand concludes that the COVID-19 death toll in the United States is misleading and that deaths from other diseases are being categorized as COVID-19 deaths.

There have reports of inflated COVID-19 deaths numbers for months. Patients who never tested positive for the disease* *had COVID-19 as their cause of death on their death certificates. In May, Jared Polis, the Democrat governor of Colorado, disputed official coronavirus death counts, saying even those of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) were inflated from including people who tested positive for the coronavirus but died of other causes. In July, a fatal motorcycle accident victim was listed as a COVID-19 death.

On Thursday, Johns Hopkins University explained that they deleted the article on the study because it “was being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies about the impact of the pandemic.”*
-------------
*TWITTER:

JHU News-Letter
@JHUNewsLetter
·23h
The article “A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19,” published in the Science & Technology section on Nov. 22, has been deleted.
JHU News-Letter
@JHUNewsLetter
·
23h
Though making clear the need for further research, the article was being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies about the impact of the pandemic. We regret that this article may have contributed to the spread of misinformation about COVID-19.
----------
They did not, however, challenge the accuracy of the data or its conclusions. In other words, the article was deleted because it didn’t fit the proper narrative.*


----------



## Mike CHS

No matter what you think about the way this pandemic has driven such an extreme versions of "beating" it there have been excesses from our governments in the way it has been handled. Teresa and I have been and will be careful in what we do but we do that every flu season also.  The link is worth viewing no matter how you think and it will bring a smile or two if nothing else. 









						CA Pastor Reclassifies Church as 'Strip Club' So That It Can Open for Services During COVID
					

Wow, that's thinking outside of the box.




					thefederalistpapers.org


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Mike CHS said:


> No matter what you think about the way this pandemic has driven such an extreme versions of "beating" it there have been excesses from our governments in the way it has been handled. Teresa and I have been and will be careful in what we do but we do that every flu season also.  The link is worth viewing no matter how you think and it will bring a smile or two if nothing else.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CA Pastor Reclassifies Church as 'Strip Club' So That It Can Open for Services During COVID
> 
> 
> Wow, that's thinking outside of the box.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thefederalistpapers.org


OMG, that pastor was pretty good   ...what has the world come to ? ......McCoy , go figure


----------



## Mike CHS

B&B Happy goats said:


> OMG, that pastor was pretty good   ...what has the world come to ? ......McCoy , go figure




He is no relation that I know of.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Our PCP Has canceled all appointments  for a month as she has covid


----------



## Baymule

We went to my sister's in Conroe for Thanksgiving. There were 6 of us there, our DD and family stayed home. To date, our 13 year old granddaughter has not gotten sick. For Christmas, they will be able to quarantine for two weeks so they can come for Christmas.


----------



## promiseacres

Prayers @Baymule 
I really hope our family will get together too... my youngest's birthday is this month too. I have sent invites. And suggested a "drive" through party if nothing else. But they are all welcome here.


----------



## promiseacres

Am hearing alarming issues with the covid vaccine that's been on the fast track to approval.  We don't plan on getting it.  If this mrna technology has been around for over 15 years why has there been no mrna flu vaccine? Or aids? Or any of the other viruses that affect us? 
Our small rural county has been hit hard. The health department shut down in person dining but nothing else.... schools, factories, stores as normal. Mask up up but no one is doing any extra cleaning as they did in the spring.  I don't get it. I am guessing most of the family owned restaurants won't make it...


----------



## Baymule

promiseacres said:


> Am hearing alarming issues with the covid vaccine that's been on the fast track to approval.  We don't plan on getting it.  If this mrna technology has been around for over 15 years why has there been no mrna flu vaccine? Or aids? Or any of the other viruses that affect us?
> Our small rural county has been hit hard. The health department shut down in person dining but nothing else.... schools, factories, stores as normal. Mask up up but no one is doing any extra cleaning as they did in the spring.  I don't get it. I am guessing most of the family owned restaurants won't make it...



Since you mentioned alarming issues........ I have never even had a flu shot, not taking this covid shot. 


COVID-19 Has A 99.95% Survival Rate For People Under 70 – Stanford Professor of Medicine – Collective Evolution (collective-evolution.com)

Head of Pfizer Research: Covid Vaccine is Female Sterilization – Health and Money News (wordpress.com)

Bill Gates Admits COVID Vaccine Changes DNA, Now Doctors Rebel! | Principia Scientific Intl. (principia-scientific.com)


----------



## River Buffaloes

Yes!!! And it is affecting me and has affected me pretty bad on so many levels.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> Yes!!! And it is affecting me and has affected me pretty bad on so many levels.



River Buffaloes! Are you sick? I have been missing you, it is good to hear from you. If sick, I hope it hasn't hit you terribly bad. What about your family? Is everyone ok?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> River Buffaloes! Are you sick? I have been missing you, it is good to hear from you. If sick, I hope it hasn't hit you terribly bad. What about your family? Is everyone ok?



Thank you @Baymule , I got sick earlier this year as you may have known from my thread "An Introduction to Buffaloes". I did lose a loved one to this, a very dear great uncle. 

I lost my job because my contract was not renewed and I am jobless and depressed. That's why I was not here.


----------



## Baymule

I am so sorry about your uncle. You did say that you were getting sick, I have been worried about you and have missed you. That sucks about losing your job. it's happening here too. Businesses are shutting down because of the lockdowns and restrictions. I am sorry that you are down and depressed. Times are bad, that's when we have to work hard to find our bright spots. I know your family depends on you sending money home and now you can't do that, so it affects them too. Any chance of finding another job? Are you considering going home until things get better?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> I am so sorry about your uncle. You did say that you were getting sick, I have been worried about you and have missed you. That sucks about losing your job. it's happening here too. Businesses are shutting down because of the lockdowns and restrictions. I am sorry that you are down and depressed. Times are bad, that's when we have to work hard to find our bright spots. I know your family depends on you sending money home and now you can't do that, so it affects them too. Any chance of finding another job? Are you considering going home until things get better?




I really don't know what I am going to do. The economy is not going to revive in foreseeable future. It's getting blow after blow, the farmers are on road protesting, getting gassed and hosed. Bihar is particularly poor, I can go back and cut the cost and save some money, but finding a job there is even more difficult than it is here. Whatever jobs that are there are low paying jobs. That being said I will go back for the Christmas.

 I am fluent in Spanish and have a decent grasp on English. I have worked as an interpreter and tourist guide in Delhi, but there are no tourists because of the pandemic. 

I sometimes think about my late great uncle a lot. His mother, that is my great grandmother survived the plague during the third plague pandemic. She caught the plague as a child and miraculously survived and her son lost the fight to covid19. 

Our only hope is a vaccine.


----------



## River Buffaloes

I can only work as a surveyor or an interpreter and you can't do these jobs from home. Can you?


----------



## Sundragons

We've been very fortunate to only have one family member get minor symptoms, and no one living here at the farm (was my oldest son, and he's got his own place). Mentally it's been very draining and disruptive, but we've never had to worry about our safety or it impacting our ability to make a living (I haven't seen my office since March 12, but honestly I'm 100% OK with that). Keeping school-aged kids on track and their anxiety under control is hard enough without forcing them to be locked up at home too. Fun times! 

We are taking as many precautions as we possibly can, and I'm doing everything I can think of to keep everyone's spirits up and anxiety down. We've been doing a bunch of online donating to shelters and food banks this year, more than we ever have before. We're not rolling in dough, but the fact that we have some extra to share means we're doing a lot better than a lot of people, and we do what we can to help. I am thankful daily that we as a family are doing OK, because I know just how terribly this is impacting families just like mine all over the world.


----------



## Baymule

We are so Blessed to have our little farm. We moved here almost 6 years ago from a small city lot. I can't imagine being there now, in lockdown. At least here we can grow a big garden, chickens for eggs and meat, feeder pigs, lambs and at the moment, a steer. Plenty to do to keep us busy and we won't go hungry. We share with neighbors that are less fortunate. 

@River Buffaloes is your family able to grow a garden to help with the groceries? I know they have the buffaloes for dairy and I'm sure that helps. Even with growing your own food, you still need money for other things. We can't pay the electric and water bills with eggs or produce. For some silly reason, they want money. There are many items we use and consume that we can't grow, so must have something to pay for them with. 

I really hope that things get better for you and your family.


----------



## promiseacres

@Baymule we are blessed aren't we? even in the current events and crazyness, most of us in the US are beyond blessed.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> We are so Blessed to have our little farm. We moved here almost 6 years ago from a small city lot. I can't imagine being there now, in lockdown. At least here we can grow a big garden, chickens for eggs and meat, feeder pigs, lambs and at the moment, a steer. Plenty to do to keep us busy and we won't go hungry. We share with neighbors that are less fortunate.
> 
> @River Buffaloes is your family able to grow a garden to help with the groceries? I know they have the buffaloes for dairy and I'm sure that helps. Even with growing your own food, you still need money for other things. We can't pay the electric and water bills with eggs or produce. For some silly reason, they want money. There are many items we use and consume that we can't grow, so must have something to pay for them with.
> 
> I really hope that things get better for you and your family.




Yes, we do grow vegetables, rice, wheat, oilseeds, pulses, chickens and other poultry and some spices like turmeric, ginger, coriander, Fenugreek, Nigella seeds, fruits like mangoes, bananas, litchi, jackfruit, guava etc. We used to grow sugarcane as well.  We don't have to pay rent, electricity is super cheap. 

Our main problem is that we get floods every year we have a normal or an average monsoon. This year was the first excess monsoon in twenty-five years. It destroyed 80% of the Kharif crops ( crops that are sown in June-July and harvested in Nov. - December).


----------



## Shellymay

Maybe some of you have already been vaccinated?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I just had heard about that this morning, very interesting , ...


----------



## Mini Horses

Explains why, a few months ago, TSC had signs at the horse wormer shelves saying " not for human consumption".   I never realized it helps with pain.  Probably several of us self medicate every time we give to our animals...it will absorb through skin.

@River Buffaloes  I'm sorry to hear of your situation.  Many people have lost jobs, many companies have had to close up.  Extremely troubling.  For some of us, as @Baymule has pointed out, the farm has been our resource for our own sustenance and help to others.  Working the farm has brought some relief from the depression of the pandemic.  We help offset the crop failures by preserving much of our harvest, in some way, to use when things fail to thrive.  I'm hoping things will work out for you and family.


----------



## Mike CHS

B&B Happy goats said:


> I just had heard about that this morning, very interesting , ...



I've been hearing that for awhile but the skeptic in me says there isn't enough money in something already developed to drive NIH interest.


----------



## farmerjan

This country and the bias from some of the medical profession is beyond disgusting.  Trying any drug off label is a normal thing if the doctor doesn't have any thing else in his "bag of tricks"..... to prohibit the use of something like hydroxychlorquine and z-pac and to not encourage the EARLY INTERVENTION but wait until you are so sick you need the hospital is in it'sself a crime.  To not "allow" doctors to try other things, that have a proven track record is showing just what kind of control they want to exert so that people feel like they (gov't sponsored and controlled people) are the "great white hope"...... it goes back to money and control.  
Nope, got to be some "new wonder drug" that costs through the ying yang and is not proven..... so someone can make more money on it by capitalizing on the masses fear. 
DISGRACEFUL what the drug companies, and  the money people behind the researchers and companies that are doing the research, are doing to this country.


----------



## Baymule

River Buffaloes said:


> Yes, we do grow vegetables, rice, wheat, oilseeds, pulses, chickens and other poultry and some spices like turmeric, ginger, coriander, Fenugreek, Nigella seeds, fruits like mangoes, bananas, litchi, jackfruit, guava etc. We used to grow sugarcane as well.  We don't have to pay rent, electricity is super cheap.
> 
> Our main problem is that we get floods every year we have a normal or an average monsoon. This year was the first excess monsoon in twenty-five years. It destroyed 80% of the Kharif crops ( crops that are sown in June-July and harvested in Nov. - December).


Is the flood the reason you left home to go to work in New Delhi, so you could help our family?


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> Is the flood the reason you left home to go to work in New Delhi, so you could help our family?


No, not really, main reason behind leaving Bihar is that there's nothing much to do there. It's heavily agrarian and it's main export is cheap labour. There's not much income from farming, because everyone is doing that. If you are skilled like I have a university degree in geography, I am trained as cartographer and land surveyor. I also did a five year course in Spanish.  There's no prospect of finding a job in Bihar that I can do.


----------



## Baymule

@River Buffaloes are you feeling any better from Covid? I hope so and pray for your recovery.


----------



## River Buffaloes

Baymule said:


> @River Buffaloes are you feeling any better from Covid? I hope so and pray for your recovery.




I recovered from covid19 very quickly. I had symptoms only for a couple of days. Light fever, body ache, weakness in limbs, loss of appetite and loss of taste only for about two days.


----------



## Beekissed

Dr. Christiane Northrup | What’s Inside the COVID-19 Vaccines?
					

3X New York Times Best-selling Author Dr. Northrup Shares About the Fetal-Tissue Filled RNA-Modifying Luciferase 060606 Patent COVID-19 Vaccines




					rumble.com


----------



## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> Nope, got to be some "new wonder drug" that costs through the ying yang and is not proven..... so someone can make more money on it by capitalizing on the masses fear.




Sometimes it isn't _all_ about "how can we make sure someone makes the most possible money off of this?" Sometimes, it can be about "I'd rather not be involved in a class-action lawsuit." Ivermectin is a known teratogen (causes birth defects) in animals; they still aren't sure it is completely safe for a pregnant woman and her fetus (or at what dose level it might not be). We know Coronavirus can be seriously bad news for pregnant women and the babies they are carrying; whether or not they are officially on the "at risk" list, they ought to be. What happens when a woman takes Ivermectin prophylactically to avoid getting Covid, (it's available by prescription only for human use), gets pregnant, and then gives birth to a stillborn or impaired child? It would definitely be all about the money then.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Bunnylady said:


> Sometimes it isn't _all_ about "how can we make sure someone makes the most possible money off of this?" Sometimes, it can be about "I'd rather not be involved in a class-action lawsuit." Ivermectin is a known teratogen (causes birth defects) in animals; they still aren't sure it is completely safe for a pregnant woman and her fetus (or at what dose level it might not be). We know Coronavirus can be seriously bad news for pregnant women and the babies they are carrying; whether or not they are officially on the "at risk" list, they ought to be. What happens when a woman takes Ivermectin prophylactically to avoid getting Covid, (it's available by prescription only for human use), gets pregnant, and then gives birth to a stillborn or impaired child? It would definitely be all about the money then.


At 68 I'm not worried about getting pregnant lol, just give me my apple flavored ivermectin cuz I am not going to get the vaccination  shots  until I see what the the long term effects are...I am perfectly content to stay home with my animals and have decided that wearing a mask can be fun,  it makes a senior citizen even more invisible  than we normally are when in public ....who on earth knows what is real and isn't  real when it comes to this entire virus pandemic...???


----------



## farmerjan

Tell me that gov't agencies are not hypocritical..... all of a sudden the AMA has retracted their statement that hydroxychloroquine is not acceptable for use off label for this c-virus..... Doctors are now being told that they can use it "off-label" if they feel it would be of benefit to their patients...... The sorry bunch of ...... "oh it cannot be used, it could kill you"...... when so many doctors were saying that they had very good results when used as part of a protocol in EARLY TREATMENT.  
So if Ivermectin is another possible treatment, off label, then taking into consideration that it might not be good for women of child bearing age.... there are a he// of alot of us that don't need to worry about that.


----------



## farmerjan

And why did the AMA do this now...... the elections are over and Pres Trump quit talking about it like he was when it first was brought up back in March and they basically said he was stupid and didn't know what he was talking about when he was promoting it after the doctors had said it was good as a part of the regimen.... and did it help to shorten his actual problem with the virus?????


----------



## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> did it help to shorten his actual problem with the virus?????



That is _extremely_ unlikely. He took the hydroxychloroquine in May, after a member of his household staff tested positive; he didn't test positive himself until October. Right now, they aren't even sure the vaccine will provide 6 months of protection; for any_ drug_ to still be in your system that long would be incredible and alarming just to think about.

President Trump's wife and son tested positive at the same time as he did. The kid never had any symptoms; if it hadn't been for his parents' illness, he probably wouldn't even have been tested. Melania had a mild case that she supposedly self-medicated with herbal remedies, and other than the fact that she cancelled appearances because she was still hacking up a lung 3 weeks later, she was never very sick. I haven't heard that the particular strain they had has been identified, but there are several strains, and some do seem to be milder (or at least,  less likely to result in severe symptoms). It's quite possible that Trump's case would have been relatively short and mild no matter what regimen he was on.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Under quarantine, waiting on test results. Been 5 days between potential transmission and yesterday when I was called that I should get tested. I dont feel sick but my boss and her dh are positive. She told me on the phone she feels bad but not life threatening.  Right before Christmas. Gotta love it.


----------



## farmerjan

WHO has withdrawn support for remdisivoir (sp?) ... says not proven effective.....


----------



## Bunnylady

The WHO has been saying that for months; based on the same study that showed hydroxychloroquine wasn't helpful,  either.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

I'm negative. They called an hour ago. Thank the Lord, I'm almost out of coca-cola.


----------



## Baymule

Glad that you are negative, that stuff is no fun.


----------



## farmerjan

Talked to DS this morning.  He says he is feeling better but gets tired real easy.  Not 100% but definitely better than last week.  Said that GF is feeling pretty good, all she had was the headaches and backaches.  They both agreed that it was like a crappy flu.....


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Baymule said:


> Glad that you are negative, that stuff is no fun.


Thank you. I was right worried for myself but more for people I've been around.
Now I gotta go back tomorrow 😩


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

farmerjan said:


> Talked to DS this morning.  He says he is feeling better but gets tired real easy.  Not 100% but definitely better than last week.  Said that GF is feeling pretty good, all she had was the headaches and backaches.  They both agreed that it was like a crappy flu.....


That's what my boss said like the flu. I wish them well.


----------



## farmerjan

I had a bout of diarrhea a month or so ago.... something I don't hardly ever get.  4 days of not getting far from the bathroom.  Wanted to sleep alot.  I think it was the virus.... but my immune system seems to be pretty strong so didn't get too concerned.  Made sure I didn't get dehydrated.  All the exposure to the cows and things I believe really helps to keep my system healthy.  But DS was exposed to his boss at work that was sick for several days, thinking it was just a cold bug, then felt like a flu and got tested and he had it so it was pretty sure thing that DS was going to get it.  We don't live in the same house so I was not closely exposed to him.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Co workers Dad passed away from it right after Thanksgiving. Another guy his wife works at a chicken plant. Back in April she spent two weeks in the hospital. He swore up and down it was just the flu. I never heard of anybody in there 30's being that sick from the flu. I work with some really questionable citizens. I keep my mask on all day. I was shoulder to shoulder with my boss her last day at work. She thinks her dh gave it to her from an EMT run he made last week. I believe masks make a difference.


----------



## Sheepshape

How is Covid affecting me?  
Well we have this new rapid-spreading variant of which the UK has the majority of cases. I am from Wales.....along with London and the South East, we have the highest proportion of cases with the new variant. Wales has the highest incidence in the UK.....a slightly surreal feeling. 
The UK is being (understandably) isolated from the rest of the world. We are in so-called 'tier 4' lockdown....a lonely, empty place for Xmas.
So....feeling isolated, slightly 'unclean'.....hoping the vaccines will help, but knowing that the vaccine rate is pathetically slow!
So...feeling a bit sad and 'untouchable'.....Thank God for modern forms of communication.

Can I take this opportunity of wishing you the best Xmas and New Year possible in this year we nearly all want to forget?


----------



## Nao57

Hearing some weird stuff about the vaxxine.

Some people are saying it can cause Bell's Palsy, and that many people are manifesting bad side effects already. (And its only been out a short time.) When I brought this up with others, someone said it was true.

Another article said that Ohio may possibly force people to take the vaxxine.

This worries me a bit. I don't like this, especially because when ppl were fighting polio, ppl will tell you the very first polio vaccine had big problems with it. Then they needed more time to work out the kinks.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Sheepshape said:


> How is Covid affecting me?
> Well we have this new rapid-spreading variant of which the UK has the majority of cases. I am from Wales.....along with London and the South East, we have the highest proportion of cases with the new variant. Wales has the highest incidence in the UK.....a slightly surreal feeling.
> The UK is being (understandably) isolated from the rest of the world. We are in so-called 'tier 4' lockdown....a lonely, empty place for Xmas.
> So....feeling isolated, slightly 'unclean'.....hoping the vaccines will help, but knowing that the vaccine rate is pathetically slow!
> So...feeling a bit sad and 'untouchable'.....Thank God for modern forms of communication.
> 
> Can I take this opportunity of wishing you the best Xmas and New Year possible in this year we nearly all want to forget?


Sure has been a hard year on all of us. I need to watch Charlie Brown.
Wishing for everyone all the best.
Merry Christmas


----------



## Baymule

@Sheepshape I'm so sorry that you are down in the dumps, Christmas is supposed to be a happy time, but it's not too happy for lots of people this year. Then along comes a new variant of Covid, what will they call it? #20? LOL

I'm leery of the vaccine, it is said that the RNA in it changes our DNA in ways that they don't know yet. The DNA changes can be passed on to our children with no idea how it is going to affect future generations. Plus other things that don't sound so very good. 

For the same reasons I grow a garden to avoid GMO's in my food, I refuse to become a GMO vaccinated guinea pig. I have never even had a flu shot, I danged sure don't want this one. If more vaccines come out without the RNA in them, I might consider it, but as it stands now, no way. 

@Nao57 subscribe to www.theepochtimes.com for unbiased news. Do a search for vaccines and you will find what you want to know.


----------



## Sheepshape

Baymule said:


> I'm leery of the vaccine, it is said that the RNA in it changes our DNA in ways that they don't know yet. The DNA changes can be passed on to our children with no idea how it is going to affect future generations. Plus other things that don't sound so very good.


Bay...I don't think there's too much to worry about. Though no expert, I am from a scientific background. What  all viruses normally do, whether they are DNA or RNA type, is to 'hijack' our cells reproductive systems in order to produce more of their own kind. When we develop immunity to the virus we become able to prevent the virus from replicating itself in our cells. We do not generally incorporate any of the virus material into our own DNA or RNA. There is no reason to think that material from RNA-type vaccines would be, either. 
I will be holding my arm out eagerly for any of the vaccines that I may be offered.
 I have had anaphylaxis (wasp stings and mirtazipine) in the past and there was some odd stuff put out by the MHA after 2 'anaphylactoid' reactions in the test subjects, saying that folk with a history of significant allergy shouldn't have the vaccine. I have taken advice from a n expert in the field who assures me it will be safe......so I am still going to be holding out my arm.

Again, best wishes during this strange festive season


----------



## promiseacres

I am with @Baymule we won't be getting a vaccine pushed so very fast through the "system" .   We are make Christmas goodies and planning on small gatherings this year. Stay home if you're sick. I still am fighting anxiety for the masks....firm believer that you can't control this type of virus and our days set the day we were conceived. To me the masks enforce the idea that we should be terrified of other people. One article told of a guy in NY saying we should view all other people as serial killers. But I am a rule follower and try to respect that many believe the mask makes them safer... so I wear one. Lots of deep breathes and a lifesaver helps as I always seem to need to cough in public... it's too bad that there's no longer anyone who allows for health exceptions...I am sure I am not alone with this anxiety.  DH can't wear one very long either, from his past with a clot in his lungs. 
But we are blessed, plenty of space and just a few projects to keep us busy.  
It's sure a crazy time.


----------



## promiseacres

Oh and like 350% of extra vitamin d


----------



## farmerjan

@Sheepshape  sorry for you living there with all the extra problems and a new variant of this virus to  deal with.  I don't have any magic words for you.  
Try to be positve, and pray for a better year for 2021.  

Merry Christmas to you.


----------



## Stephine

Baymule said:


> @Sheepshape I'm so sorry that you are down in the dumps, Christmas is supposed to be a happy time, but it's not too happy for lots of people this year. Then along comes a new variant of Covid, what will they call it? #20? LOL
> 
> I'm leery of the vaccine, it is said that the RNA in it changes our DNA in ways that they don't know yet. The DNA changes can be passed on to our children with no idea how it is going to affect future generations. Plus other things that don't sound so very good.
> 
> For the same reasons I grow a garden to avoid GMO's in my food, I refuse to become a GMO vaccinated guinea pig. I have never even had a flu shot, I danged sure don't want this one. If more vaccines come out without the RNA in them, I might consider it, but as it stands now, no way.
> 
> @Nao57 subscribe to www.theepochtimes.com for unbiased news. Do a search for vaccines and you will find what you want to know.


the epoch times is not unbiased news, please do some thorough research first.


----------



## Stephine

Nao57 said:


> Hearing some weird stuff about the vaxxine.
> 
> Some people are saying it can cause Bell's Palsy, and that many people are manifesting bad side effects already. (And its only been out a short time.) When I brought this up with others, someone said it was true.
> 
> Another article said that Ohio may possibly force people to take the vaxxine.
> 
> This worries me a bit. I don't like this, especially because when ppl were fighting polio, ppl will tell you the very first polio vaccine had big problems with it. Then they needed more time to work out the kinks.


----------



## Stephine

This is not a responsible way to communicate about the Covid vaccine or any issue for that matter. „Some people say“ is a terrible way for supporting any argument. Who exactly, where did they get that information and what are the qualifications of the people making these statements? Same for referring to an „article“ without naming the source. This here is just spreading rumors and disinformation at a time when literally thousands and thousands of people’s lives depend on us as a society acting on scientifically and empirically verified information. Please don’t do this.


----------



## farmerjan

If the masks worked so good, Calf would be through this and done with all the lockdown you are experiencing.  It would have cut the transmission to a manageable point.   LOCKDOWNS for weeks and months on end don't work.  

The Epoch times is alot more unbiased than most things I have ever read.  And I read ALOT.  They do not rubber stamp what "someone says"..... there are way too many times over the years that they have not come down on the "republican side".  I am sick of listening to "so called experts" like Dr Fauci who changes his stance from one side to another.  And he has not been out in the "field" for years and years..... There are hundreds of Drs that are fighting to get heard that are not allowed.... that EARLY intervention is the way to go to lessen the effects and they have been told that they cannot prescribe treatments that they are using in the field.... 
Lots of medicine gets used "off-label"..... if a doctor says to me, I want to try this..... because I THINK it might help.... then I will give it consideration.......and "screw" what some other expert says.  
"Some people say" is something that has been bandied about by both sides.... yet when doctors come along and they try to put out their opinion, as many have that are in the field, and are then censored or "squashed" because it does not meet the established accepted platform..... they are not allowed to even do what they feel is right.  
The nurses in Alaska, the nurse on the video that had a reaction and passed out, the doctors with alot of credentials, and practical day to day experience, saying that there can be some serious side effects.... are not spreading rumors and disinformation.   Serious reactions are happening.... without having the number of trials to see what they could be, since this was so fast tracked. 

Now , "they say"  as in the "experts" , that people with allergies should not take this vaccine..... 
I am not an "anti-vaccine" nutcase..... I believe that there is a place for them.... but some of the protocol today is absolutely insane.  We don't even use the number of vaccines on our cattle, at the young age that they use on brand new babies.  I just got my tetanus booster ....BECAUSE.... that vaccine PREVENTS people from getting tetanus/lockjaw.   A true vaccine PREVENTS a person from getting the disease that they are vaccinated for.  This "vaccine" is only a "shot" that is supposed to stop or lessen the effects.  
A person needs to build and bolster their immune system.  Vaccines are a part of building the "herd immunity" to diseases.  A vaccine will prevent a person from getting the disease, so the host body shuts it down and it dies there and then that person cannot pass it on.  
If "they" were so able to come up with this, why have they not come up with a vaccine for the SARS 2..... it is in the same family.  
The MANY MANY doctors that are part of the Frontline Doctors group, and others, aren't all "crackpots" or weirdos.  Dr Pierre Korey that went in front of the Senate or whatever group that was, that BEGGED them to look at the research on Ivermectin..... Dr Christine Northrup .... who some say is so way out because  she made a comment about some of these vaccines having other subversive things, like "antennae" to make people trackable..... yet BILL GATES, has himself said that people must be tracked.... and has made many comments about population control and doctors in some of the countries where some of these different vaccines (not covid) have been used and there was such an increase in infertility and other problems. 
I am going to look at alternative treatments for things.  There are ALWAYS going to be people that  are going to succumb to diseases.  A new or novel challenge will overcome people who have no resistance.  Trying to scare people into becoming mindless sheep, do as I say....not as I do...... the authorities that continue to do opposite..... is just another form of control.  WITHOUT THE RESULTS that they claim will happen..... No wonder people are fed up. 

For every one of the reports and stories that you say are disinformation,  there are just as many other reports for the other side.  But no one is allowed to call disinformation for things that are put out on the mainstream reports....


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Since somebody has poked a bee hive... I have a serious question. Is there information available as to how the serum is being manufactured? Don't want any opinions. I have only recently began getting the flu vaccine. I was told NOT TO by my Dr. as I am allergic to eggs. The Navy required it I didn't know any different and became red and itchy lasted couple hours. So from 85 until 2010 or 11 I didn't. I was informed there were alternative varieties not made from eggs and I should be ok. Still I ask to make sure I'm getting the safer FOR ME variety. Having been hospitalized with anaphylactic shock ( thank God for spell check) full blown closed throat bowels emptied itching every where at once I know at its worse it ain't fun. Having had sniffles runny nose watery eyes from eating an egg to ER bound from Reese's cups believe me ....not fun or something I wish on anybody. Having blocked arteries and stents and talking to Jesus bout how I ain't quite ready to go you can see I do have concerns. So for all the experts standing out in those fields and foregoing the wings of political nuttery. Anybody know what its made from?


----------



## farmerjan

I am thinking that I recently saw an article that lists all the different companies that are making the vaccines... and the ones that are using "lines" from fetal tissue.... what goes into each companies "formulas"... partly it was for the people who are boycotting due to their anti-abortion beliefs.... can't think of it off hand  but try Mercola.com.... and you might have to go to DuckDuckGo to find sites that have not been banned.  I did watch something on ThriveTime Show... time to free America....one of the sessions was with Dr Christiane Northrup.... I watch so m uch when I can... or listen while I am working in the house.... that I can't remember where I see or hear it all.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

farmerjan said:


> I am thinking that I recently saw an article that lists all the different companies that are making the vaccines... and the ones that are using "lines" from fetal tissue.... what goes into each companies "formulas"... partly it was for the people who are boycotting due to their anti-abortion beliefs.... can't think of it off hand  but try Mercola.com.... and you might have to go to DuckDuckGo to find sites that have not been banned.  I did watch something on ThriveTime Show... time to free America....one of the sessions was with Dr Christiane Northrup.... I watch so m uch when I can... or listen while I am working in the house.... that I can't remember where I see or hear it all.


Thank you.  I only get soundbites generally, other than the weather. Straight to the Roku and binge watch with DW. Most of it's depressing and infuriating......just say Pelosi and I'm ready to scream.


----------



## farmerjan

The CDC website has a page with comparisons of the different companies vaccines....
Just reading the 2 that are "fast track approved" I would not in your case take them as the anaphylactic shock is listed as a reason to NOT take them.  Both say no eggs used.... 
You can click on several of the different underlined parts and get alot of different info.


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> it is said that the RNA in it changes our DNA in ways that they don't know yet.




https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html#:~:text=Messenger RNA vaccines—also called,use in the United States.

But. of course, the conspiracy theorists will tell you not to trust anything from the CDC, because they have some unspecified agenda, blah, blah blah . . . .  

But seriously, there's no such thing as "unbiased news." _EVERYBODY_, including you and me, have their own particular take on a subject; anyone who claims to be unbiased is a liar, and not to be trusted. All disseminators of "news"" have one bias in particular - grabbing you by your vulnerabilities, bringing you back to their site again and again, so you can be offered up to their advertisers and keep the advertising revenue flowing into their coffers. As long as there is any _possible_ benefit to the source for providing information, their information should be viewed with a skeptical eye; the only source you can reasonably trust is someone who (a) is_ genuinely _knowledgeable, and (b) has nothing to gain or lose in the sharing of their opinion. The chances of finding such a source on a "news" website are virtually nil.



farmerjan said:


> anaphylactic shock is listed as a reason to NOT take them.




Anaphylaxis is simply the most severe type of allergic reaction; just because a person has had that type of reaction to one allergen (for example, a bee sting) doesn't mean that they have to avoid exposure to another unrelated type (for example, peanut butter). Because vaccines share a lot of the same components, if one has had an anaphylactic reaction _to a previous vaccination_, there is good reason to avoid this vaccine too, but simply having one or more allergies is not sufficient cause. People can have more than one allergy, of course, and people with a history of allergies can develop new ones, so a higher level of monitoring may be called for, but avoidance isn't necessary.


----------



## Nao57

Stephine said:


> This is not a responsible way to communicate about the Covid vaccine or any issue for that matter. „Some people say“ is a terrible way for supporting any argument. Who exactly, where did they get that information and what are the qualifications of the people making these statements? Same for referring to an „article“ without naming the source. This here is just spreading rumors and disinformation at a time when literally thousands and thousands of people’s lives depend on us as a society acting on scientifically and empirically verified information. Please don’t do this.



...except for that I'd seen the references. If I'd not seen references I wouldn't have mentioned it. And the person telling me about the first polio vaccine worked with vaccines and was one of the first people to research Parvo in dogs. 

So there was credibility.


----------



## farmerjan

Since @Grizzlyhackle said he has had a trip (or maybe more) for anaphylactic shock, that is WHY I said I would not want to take the virus "vaccine" if I was him....


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

farmerjan said:


> The CDC website has a page with comparisons of the different companies vaccines....
> Just reading the 2 that are "fast track approved" I would not in your case take them as the anaphylactic shock is listed as a reason to NOT take them.  Both say no eggs used....
> You can click on several of the different underlined parts and get alot of different info.


Thanks again. I'm gonna check these sites you've referenced. My hear attack wasn't near as bad as those times my throat closed up. But hey it was ' simply anaphylaxis'. I'm bailing out on this thread ,starting to get aggravated.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Grizzlyhackle said:


> Thanks again. I'm gonna check these sites you've referenced. My hear attack wasn't near as bad as those times my throat closed up. But hey it was ' simply anaphylaxis'. I'm bailing out on this thread ,starting to get aggravated.





farmerjan said:


> Since @Grizzlyhackle said he has had a trip (or maybe more) for anaphylactic shock, that is WHY I said I would not want to take the virus "vaccine" if I was him....


 farmerjan  wow that cdc website gave me a lot to think about. Thanks again


----------



## Baymule

I read in several places that the vaccines had cells from aborted babies in the vaccines. That sounded so far "out there" that I just couldn't believe it. I just found an article that addresses this very thing. 

Some excerpts from the article, link so you can read the whole thing. 









						Is the coronavirus vaccine made from fetal cell lines?
					

As coronavirus vaccine prototypes move closer to testing and approval, some Catholics are debating the ethical sources behind a leading vaccine candidate.




					www.catholicnewsagency.com
				




 With some common vaccines, such as those used to fight chicken pox and measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR), the cell lines of babies who were aborted decades ago are used to grow the weakened diseases.

This is also reportedly the case with some coronavirus vaccines in development, such as one worked on by the University of Oxford and Astrazeneca, which relies on the HEK-239 cell lines from a baby aborted in the Netherlands in the 1970s.


Non-Moderna scientists had initially made DNA vectors with the gene sequence of the spike protein, and injected them in HEK-293 cells to produce the spike protein. That work was studied and evaluated by experts at NIAID and the University of Texas, who determined that the spike protein was a good candidate for testing. Moderna was not involved in the DNA construction nor was it involved in the evaluation of the construction.

Thus, Brehany said, while the company has some association with the use of cell lines from elective abortions, it is not responsible for that use, and its vaccine was not produced using those HEK-293 cells.


----------



## Baymule

I look at this as a discussion. There is so much floating around out there, what to believe? No reason for anybody to get annoyed at any one else. We are all learning new things, things that maybe we didn't want to learn, but here we are. 

And of course we ALL know that our government officials would NEVER lie to us!


----------



## farmerjan

@Grizzlyhackle ... I had an anaphylactic reaction.... severe..... alllergic... to penicillin when I was a kid.  No reason to think I was allergic, neither of my parents were, so when they gave me the pen for some sort of an infection as a child for the first time, it was a scary thing.  I started having trouble breathing, throat closing up, rash..... rushed me to ER and they told my parents to NEVER give me any of the "cillins"...brothers and sister can all take it....
As I have gotten older, I react to more and more stuff in different ways.  I am careful of what I put in my body.  Tylenol in too large a dose makes me have heart palpitations/rapid heart beat;   ibuprophen does the same as well as upsets my stomach without a buffer.... zinc makes me very nauseous...... other weird stuff.  I have broken out in a rash over stuff that doesn't bother me other time..... ... I used to wear contacts.  Back when you made up your own solution with a "salt tablet" mixed in distilled water.  No problems.  When they came out with prepared/pre-made solutions..... ahhhh.... great.  NOPE, thimerisol preservative caused me to have so much eye pain..... So I am very careful of stuff like vaccinations.   Used to be they often used thimerisol as a preservative in most vaccines.  Now they are using other stuff in some.... but I don't take many. 
Vaccines used to mean that if you took them, you would be immune to the disease.  Think rabies, small pox, tetanus..... now what they call vaccines are really not true vaccines from what I learned a vaccine to be.  So, I am very skeptical.... and even more cautious.  And I don't believe everything I am told without some serious research. 
It took me 5 YEARS to find a dr that I felt comfortable with, to do my ankle replacement.... who answered my questions and was straight forward when I asked....and was also into regenerative medicine.... I was hoping that a stem cell protocol would save me from a replacement.  He gave me definite answers straight up.  I am so glad that I waited and found him.  I have had a fantastic experience and recovery.... my PT says that I am doing better than most from any kind of replacement and they don't see alot of ankles done.... it is not popular in so many places.  Local drs here just wanted to fuse and I kept thinking NO.... there had to be a better alternative.... then 2 that did ankle replacements said I was not a good candidate.... yet this dr @ Duke Orthopaedics said he thought I was a good candidate for a replacement.... after telling me that he wouldn't want to waste my money on stem cell since the joint was so bad.... because it was out of pocket, not covered.... and that if he thought it would help he would tell me straight up and he could give me options for payments......
So I don't jump into things, nor do I discount things.  I have had a bad knee for 30+ years, but they have both gotten real bad, in the last 10.  Refuse to have one done at a time, even though there is a dr that I like close by here.... my PT guys also said that I would do better with recovery if they were both done and healed and worked together at the same time... not putting more on the "better joint" that wasn't done.   To then go through the same thing all over again in a year if I lasted that long.  
Have studied something called the Mako procedure.... more advanced, robotic,;  CT scans ahead of scheduled procedure,  measures your  tendons and ligaments and muscles..... whatever... and the replacement piece is designed just for your body,  for each side......... I have an appt the end of January,  and if I like this dr, will get it scheduled.  The clincher is my main PT guy's mom had it done, both knees, the end of Sept and by 8 weeks was walking normal, no canes,  nothing.  She just got the all clear after 12 weeks.... he says she is 10 yrs older than me, overweight, and after an early problem of very low blood sodium levels making her disoriented.... and slightly dehydrated.... she rebounded and in 3 days of "fixing that" she was doing real good.  Barring any real problems, he thinks I will do as good or better than the recovery with ankle,  and he says I am much more active than she is,  with us having the farm.....

So I try to research what I am doing, trying,  and I am a bit old fashioned, but I am also not against new and modern either.   If I was, I would never do replacements.... I also did other types of "homeopathic type" treatments for the knees and ankle for several years....prolotherapy,  platelet rich plasma injections (PRP) ....
RESEARCH whatever you want to try..... weight the options....


----------



## farmerjan

Just was reading an article put out by the WHO, about how MANY of the positive covid results could be false.... article cited in Alternative News.... Dec 14th or 19th I think.  Many references to other drs in different countries that say the results could be as much as 50% or MORE false.  Very interesting to read.  
It's not about the vaccine, but I found it very interesting as it mentions the Great Barrington Letter that has been signed by OVER 50,000 drs, researchers etc., saying that the conventional approach to dealing with this virus is absurd.....and there are other articles that you can look up about how many of the actual deaths that list COVID as the only reason for death is like 6%.... that most are other causes that actually caused the death with them also having a covid infection at the time of death.  
You have to go to other sites to find info because the main stream press will NOT present more than the side they want you to read.....


----------



## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> Vaccines used to mean that if you took them, you would be immune to the disease. Think rabies,



If this were the case, why do my animals have to get annual vaccinations (stretched to 3 years for dogs and cats), and why, in the case of exposure, is the protocol to immediately redo the vaccination? I think your understanding of what vaccinations do is a bit optimistic. The people who pitched vaccines to our parents as a once-for-life magic bullet might even have believed it, but time has proven that not to be true for many, if not most.



farmerjan said:


> how many of the actual deaths that list COVID as the* only *reason for death is like 6%....




But see, this is exactly the problem. I remember seeing an article back in the Spring that said that something near 60% of the people in North Carolina are in one or more of the "at risk" categories, and I doubt we are unique in that. The older you are, the more likely it is that you are dealing with one or more chronic health issues (I remember when my husband decided to switch health insurance carriers about 20 years ago, and when the agent asked about medications we were taking, I was surprised that they were surprised when we said, "none." They said that was actually rather unusual). Remember when running guru Jim Fixx ironically died of a heart attack while out jogging? Until it happened, nobody knew he had heart disease - he looked like the picture of health and fitness. If he had been hit by a car, the coroner would have noted the nearly blocked arteries as a comorbidity; the pain, etc, of a heart attack that could cause him to stumble into the path of a car might be speculated on, but the traumatic injuries inflicted by his collision with the car would have been indicated as the cause of death. 

Very few people are in literally perfect health; most deal with chronic challenges to their immune function (for a lot of us, the working of their immune system is itself one of those challenges).It's all very nice to say, "if you are perfectly healthy, you have almost nothing to worry about," but if you don't know that you aren't perfectly healthy, is that just too bad for you? To me, pointing out that the vast majority of the people who are dying in this pandemic have comorbidities is somewhat interesting, but not helpful; a lot of those people probably could have functioned quite well for many years with those comorbidities had this virus not come along to tip the balance.


----------



## Beekissed

Asymptomatic transmission of COVID-19 didn’t occur at all, study of 10 million finds - LifeSite
					

Only 300 asymptomatic cases in the study of nearly 10 million were discovered, and none of those tested positive for COVID-19.




					www.lifesitenews.com


----------



## Niele da Kine

Today Covid is affecting me by not being able to buy dried beans at the grocery.  Since when are dried beans not in stock? The shelves of canned beans are empty, too.  I was gonna make bean soup and there's no beans?  Well, guess I'll make this pork roast into kalua pig and go plant some beans.  They don't sell Good Mother Stallard beans at the grocery so when we get them grown and harvested, it will be a better bean soup.  Maybe I'll plant some Navy beans, too.  Usually, they're on the grocery store shelves and so inexpensive that it's not worth growing them, but maybe I'll have to.

I only checked the small grocery in our rural town, there may be some the next town over, but I don't wanna drive twenty minutes each way to get beans for soup.  Other than the three groceries (the next town over is bigger and has two grocery stores) the next grocery stores are over an hour's drive away in either direction.


----------



## Mini Horses

Here, even the dried beans have risen over 25% in price, some almost 35%!   One of those items that you just don't think about that much of a rise but, it's real.  And those are recent increases.  In a small can, you can be paying over $1.  I grabbed some when found at a good price and canned them, now ready to use quickly, at 25 cent a "can".   😁


----------



## farmerjan

Beekissed said:


> Asymptomatic transmission of COVID-19 didn’t occur at all, study of 10 million finds - LifeSite
> 
> 
> Only 300 asymptomatic cases in the study of nearly 10 million were discovered, and none of those tested positive for COVID-19.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.lifesitenews.com


Gee Whiz.... what is the WHO and the stupid govenors going to come up with to keep all the sheeple in line next?


----------



## farmerjan

I have been buying the big cans of navy beans at the one bulk/discount store.... for 4.95 a can..... Going to get a few more.... just to have.  Once I get the stove in the new house, I will be able to start doing some cooking again.  Haven't looked for the dried ones much as everytime I would look for split peas, all the dried bean places were pretty empty shelves.


----------



## Mike CHS

Niele da Kine said:


> They don't sell Good Mother Stallard beans at the grocery so when we get them grown and harvested, it will be a better bean soup.  Maybe I'll plant some Navy beans, too.



I don't know if you were serious about growing beans or not but I have gotten that seed from Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds.


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## farmerjan

Checked on the cans as I was putting some more stuff away and the navy beans were 2.95 a can not 4.95..... so a pretty good deal.  

@Beekissed  very good chart..... way too familiar list of ways to manipulate.......which is just one step in the "subtle" forms of control and getting compliance.....


----------



## Beekissed

__





						The Entire Covid Scam Explained, In Under 12 Minutes!
					





					www.bitchute.com


----------



## thistlebloom

Thanks for posting that Bee.


----------



## Beekissed

thistlebloom said:


> Thanks for posting that Bee.


I found it of value as well....nice to be able to copy and paste to anyone who needs such an explanation.


----------



## promiseacres

this makes way too much sense...    but I guess we just need to be "nice" to those who believe otherwise. 


Beekissed said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Entire Covid Scam Explained, In Under 12 Minutes!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bitchute.com


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Here's my question....there are plenty of folks right here on this forum who've said they have had Covid.  Even Bee said that she's had Covid.   How does the 12 minute explanation that says Covid doesn't exist make any sense?   What is the illness these folks have experienced?

I'd be willing to bet the folks who've had this mystery illness would say that it DOES exist.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

Here's my next question:  Where's the beginning of the video?  Who is this person?  What are his credentials?  The video starts at 4 minutes and 43 seconds.   What's missing here?  For all I know he might have introduced himself as Bozo the Clown in the preface.  Any person can make a video.  It takes more than a talking head to convince me that he knows what he's talking about.


----------



## promiseacres

frustratedearthmother said:


> Here's my question....there are plenty of folks right here on this forum who've said they have had Covid.  Even Bee said that she's had Covid.   How does the 12 minute explanation that says Covid doesn't exist make any sense?   What is the illness these folks have experienced?
> 
> I'd be willing to bet the folks who've had this mystery illness would say that it DOES exist.


Well flu is down 98%..... but is it related? Idk. I am not an expert. Just trying to survive in this crazy world. 

The nursing home sent a short video of DHs grandparents. His grandfather looks terrible. He grandma looked ok and said Merry Christmas. I am hoping we can make an appartment at the farm...for my dad or Josh's parents. I never want to have to put them in a nursing home. I've already told my kids I will not go to a home, I will have to be very out of it to allow it. To be locked in and not allowed out, not see your family. To go there to die alone with strangers. Josh’s mom and uncle never anticipated a full lock down for months.... they feel terrible but are stuck.


----------



## rachels.haven

Somebody asked about the allergens/ingredients of the vaccine. Here's a slide show from a pediatrician's office an older family member who is a teacher that I respect shared. It has the ingredients of both vaccines listed a few slides down. I don't believe there are any allergens in it so you may get or not get it when the opportunity arises.

https://www.facebook.com/AdvocareWoodburyPediatrics/photos/pcb.3889974611014322/3889973447681105/


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

rachels.haven said:


> Somebody asked about the allergens/ingredients of the vaccine. Here's a slide show from a pediatrician's office an older family member who is a teacher that I respect shared. It has the ingredients of both vaccines listed a few slides down. I don't believe there are any allergens in it so you may get or not get it when the opportunity arises.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/AdvocareWoodburyPediatrics/photos/pcb.3889974611014322/3889973447681105/


I had asked about allergies. That's answered my question. I'll still ask if they have epinephrine available.
Bad part I'm home again waiting on results from a second test. Another co-worker. Twice in one month.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Once again " not detected" is the result. I should be happy but it's back to work tomorrow.
I no it's just a coincidence but 12 minutes after the call I get a text from the boss asking if I've heard anything yet.🤔


----------



## rachels.haven

Sheesh, your job sounds high risk! Hang in there and be careful. The people on here are rooting for you. Things are going to get worse before they get better, but supposedly there's an end in sight now.


----------



## Beekissed

Can you spot it?  Look closely at that syringe...


----------



## Bunnylady

I'm seeing a "photo op?" You know - something that has been staged with lots of reporters and cameras, that may have gone on for an hour or more and have been run through several times to make sure everyone gets a chance at a good angle, but some people get really squeamish about this sort of thing, so we need to show but not really show, know what I mean?


----------



## frustratedearthmother

I looked.  Didn't see a conspiracy!


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

I'm checking out the double mask thing she's doing.


----------



## docteurmccoy

Baymule said:


> I am sort of a contrarian, if that's the case, then why not just get on out there and get it and get it over with? It seems to be coming anyway, not an "if" but a "when."


pardon?? That's terrible. That idea is endangering people's lives. Maybe you're younger and relatively healthy, but think about the people you come across. Maybe you go out without a mask, you cross paths with an off duty nurse and give her covid, then she gives it to her patients unknowingly while working while she's still not showing symptoms but contagious. Then her patients, who aren't as lucky, die. The idea also was to, as we heard many times, "flatten the curve", so people can be treated. When hospitals are overloaded, and there aren't enough ventilators, people die. The idea has always been to do that, and hopefully prevent as many as we can until the vaccine was produced and distributed.

Anyways, it's affected my life immensely. It should in my opinion. Nobody should be going around 100% completely like they were before. You should be wearing a mask, you should be avoiding large social gatherings. I personally hardly go out, but it is what it is. I feel lucky and grateful I haven't been personally affected and haven't lost any family or friends. I will continue to take precautions to hopefully protect myself and others. My heart goes out to anybody affected.


----------



## Beekissed

docteurmccoy said:


> pardon?? That's terrible. That idea is endangering people's lives. Maybe you're younger and relatively healthy, but think about the people you come across. Maybe you go out without a mask, you cross paths with an off duty nurse and give her covid, then she gives it to her patients unknowingly while working while she's still not showing symptoms but contagious. Then her patients, who aren't as lucky, die. The idea also was to, as we heard many times, "flatten the curve", so people can be treated. When hospitals are overloaded, and there aren't enough ventilators, people die. The idea has always been to do that, and hopefully prevent as many as we can until the vaccine was produced and distributed.
> 
> Anyways, it's affected my life immensely. It should in my opinion. Nobody should be going around 100% completely like they were before. You should be wearing a mask, you should be avoiding large social gatherings. I personally hardly go out, but it is what it is. I feel lucky and grateful I haven't been personally affected and haven't lost any family or friends. I will continue to take precautions to hopefully protect myself and others. My heart goes out to anybody affected.



First you say it's affected your life immensely, then you say you haven't personally been affected, nor have you lost any family or friends?  You seem confused by it all.  

Bay is one of the nicest people you'll ever want to meet, with a heart as big as Texas and would never do anything to hurt anyone.  I'll ask you politely not to insult her or accuse her of such things.  

Live in fear is you must, but please don't try to shame others into living the same way.   No one is endangering anyone's life by not wearing a mask and no one is saving anyone's life by wearing one. 

Wear a mask, stay at home, do what you do....but please don't put that nonsense onto other people.   Those who choose not to do those things aren't harassing you in public places for your choices, so why do you feel free to do so?


----------



## Baymule

docteurmccoy said:


> pardon?? That's terrible. That idea is endangering people's lives. Maybe you're younger and relatively healthy, but think about the people you come across. Maybe you go out without a mask, you cross paths with an off duty nurse and give her covid, then she gives it to her patients unknowingly while working while she's still not showing symptoms but contagious. Then her patients, who aren't as lucky, die. The idea also was to, as we heard many times, "flatten the curve", so people can be treated. When hospitals are overloaded, and there aren't enough ventilators, people die. The idea has always been to do that, and hopefully prevent as many as we can until the vaccine was produced and distributed.
> 
> Anyways, it's affected my life immensely. It should in my opinion. Nobody should be going around 100% completely like they were before. You should be wearing a mask, you should be avoiding large social gatherings. I personally hardly go out, but it is what it is. I feel lucky and grateful I haven't been personally affected and haven't lost any family or friends. I will continue to take precautions to hopefully protect myself and others. My heart goes out to anybody affected.


Hold on there! Your "maybe" doesn't hold water, calm down. I DO wear a mask. We are retired, not "younger" by definition of number of birthdays, in good health and it already swept through my family and many of my friends. It's been almost a year and DH still gets short of breath. I am not endangering anybody's life. We hardly go anywhere, a trip to the feed store, grocery store and WAIT----the Post Office!!!!   

Oh, and I _wash my hands _and use _hand sanitizer. _I almost forgot! We also go to the doctor's office because DH is a heart patient, has had multiple joint replacements, the latest was a couple of months ago-hip replacement, cataract surgery-and he has to go for checkups.


----------



## docteurmccoy

Beekissed said:


> First you say it's affected your life immensely, then you say you haven't personally been affected, nor have you lost any family or friends?  You seem confused by it all.
> 
> Bay is one of the nicest people you'll ever want to meet, with a heart as big as Texas and would never do anything to hurt anyone.  I'll ask you politely not to insult her or accuse her of such things.
> 
> Live in fear is you must, but please don't try to shame others into living the same way.   No one is endangering anyone's life by not wearing a mask and no one is saving anyone's life by wearing one.
> 
> Wear a mask, stay at home, do what you do....but please don't put that nonsense onto other people.   Those who choose not to do those things aren't harassing you in public places for your choices, so why do you feel free to do so?


I would argue that perhaps you are confused. I never accused anybody of anything, calm down. I was simply using that as an example of why what they said isn't accurate, strawmanning isn't a good tactic. "No one is endangering anyone's life by not wearing a mask and no one is saving anyone's life by wearing one." is a ridiculously false statement by the way. It's just simply not true, science dictates this. I never harassed anybody, again, please calm down.


----------



## Mike CHS

Beekissed said:


> First you say it's affected your life immensely, then you say you haven't personally been affected, nor have you lost any family or friends?  You seem confused by it all.
> 
> Bay is one of the nicest people you'll ever want to meet, with a heart as big as Texas and would never do anything to hurt anyone.  I'll ask you politely not to insult her or accuse her of such things.
> 
> Live in fear is you must, but please don't try to shame others into living the same way.   No one is endangering anyone's life by not wearing a mask and no one is saving anyone's life by wearing one.
> 
> Wear a mask, stay at home, do what you do....but please don't put that nonsense onto other people.   Those who choose not to do those things aren't harassing you in public places for your choices, so why do you feel free to do so?



I would love to be able to add something to that but you covered it all.


----------



## docteurmccoy

Baymule said:


> Hold on there! Your "maybe" doesn't hold water, calm down. I DO wear a mask. We are retired, not "younger" by definition of number of birthdays, in good health and it already swept through my family and many of my friends. It's been almost a year and DH still gets short of breath. I am not endangering anybody's life. We hardly go anywhere, a trip to the feed store, grocery store and WAIT----the Post Office!!!!
> 
> Oh, and I _wash my hands _and use _hand sanitizer. _I almost forgot! We also go to the doctor's office because DH is a heart patient, has had multiple joint replacements, the latest was a couple of months ago-hip replacement, cataract surgery-and he has to go for checkups.


I never said you did, I was simply providing examples to show how what you said wouldn't be a good idea, that was all. Apparently not so simple though.


----------



## Beekissed

docteurmccoy said:


> I would argue that perhaps you are confused. I never accused anybody of anything, calm down. I was simply using that as an example of why what they said isn't accurate, strawmanning isn't a good tactic. "No one is endangering anyone's life by not wearing a mask and no one is saving anyone's life by wearing one." is a ridiculously false statement by the way. It's just simply not true, science dictates this. I never harassed anybody, again, please calm down.


Calm down?  Good advice, you should take it.      I'm not the one cowering in my home, scared to death to go out in public.

Again, you are trying to order someone to do something...how is it that you feel you have that much power over others as to order them to "be calm"?    Science doesn't dictate anything....but it seems to be trying to "dictate" quite a bit here of late, as are you.   And, yes, it's harassing someone by telling them they are endangering lives....might as well accuse them of murder. 

Bay's my friend and I hold her in high esteem.  I don't take it lightly when someone insults her.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

rachels.haven said:


> Sheesh, your job sounds high risk! Hang in there and be careful. The people on here are rooting for you. Things are going to get worse before they get better, but supposedly there's an end in sight now.


Today it came out that one of the maintenance guys has it, he's 63 and a mountain. I'm 6' and look up when I talk to him. It's spreading bad in southern Delaware where I work. I'm 30 miles south in Md. He comes 40 minutes from up North. People come from all directions some travel an hour. Add all that traveling, our families, their co-workers etc great potential for contact and spread. But I think that's potentially any job. Just think about Walmart or a grocery store. Family behind me says they have it. She's a nurse in a Delaware hospital same town I work in. I was in that same hospital 2 days last April. It's just a mess, all politicised and conspiracy foolishness. Tired of it, fighting people at work put the mask on or get away from me.  I smoked 30 years they're half my age and complaining they can't breathe. I'm the one walking around, they sit in one spot. We were told we were essential workers but I feel expendable. Front office all rotates working from home. I'm there everyday 6am.  Should have went to college. Somebody said come here, I heard have a beer.. joined the navy and partied worldwide.


----------



## docteurmccoy

Beekissed said:


> Calm down?  Good advice, you should take it.    I'm not the one cowering in my home, scared to death to go out in public.
> 
> Again, you are trying to order someone to do something...how is it that you feel you have that much power over others as to order them to "be calm"?    Science doesn't dictate anything....but it seems to be trying to "dictate" quite a bit here of late, as are you.   And, yes, it's harassing someone by telling them they are endangering lives....might as well accuse them of murder.
> 
> Bay's my friend and I hold her in high esteem.  I don't take it lightly when someone insults her.


Never insulted anybody. I'm not sure why what I said has you so upset. Also wow to "I'm not the one cowering in my home, scared to death to go out in public.", lol. I can tell, she must be lots of people's friends, due to the angry irrational mob ensuing lol. Also they were the one that literally said be calm to me, twice, so one could argue what power they have over me? Is it that they've been here longer and have friends and I don't? lol. Why was what I said suddenly not okay, but they were?
 I think I've had my fair share of this site though, definitely not the friendly environment I care to be on. Best of luck


----------



## Beekissed

.


----------



## Baymule

Grizzlyhackle said:


> Today it came out that one of the maintenance guys has it, he's 63 and a mountain. I'm 6' and look up when I talk to him. It's spreading bad in southern Delaware where I work. I'm 30 miles south in Md. He comes 40 minutes from up North. People come from all directions some travel an hour. Add all that traveling, our families, their co-workers etc great potential for contact and spread. But I think that's potentially any job. Just think about Walmart or a grocery store. Family behind me says they have it. She's a nurse in a Delaware hospital same town I work in. I was in that same hospital 2 days last April. It's just a mess, all politicised and conspiracy foolishness. Tired of it, fighting people at work put the mask on or get away from me.  I smoked 30 years they're half my age and complaining they can't breathe. I'm the one walking around, they sit in one spot. We were told we were essential workers but I feel expendable. Front office all rotates working from home. I'm there everyday 6am.  Should have went to college. Somebody said come here, I heard have a beer.. joined the navy and partied worldwide.


You are right, it is like a spiderweb. People from all over, go to work, to the grocery store, to various places. Neighbors and friends all around us have had it. Our DD and two young children had it, I baby sat and my husband got it, I didn't. Your coworker now has it,  Your neighbor has it, you just can't hardly avoid it. I'm so sorry that you feel expendable, just do the best you can. Since you are considered an essential worker, can you get vaccinated or do you want to take the vaccine?


----------



## Bunnylady

New record set today - nearly 4000 people with Covid in the hospitals here in NC. There are hospitals that are saying, basically, "if you are bleeding or having a heart attack, absolutely we'll see you, but otherwise, please go somewhere else, 'cause we're totally swamped and have no available beds."

As part of his modified stay-at-home order, the governor has put a 10 pm to 5 am curfew in effect, closing down bars and such where people tend to congregate and hang about for hours with persons they don't live with. They are starting to make vaccinations available to those 75 yrs of age or older. Not sure what they are doing about schools - they were trying to transition back to in-person learning, but the soaring positivity numbers are making that look inadvisable. 

One of my daughter's coworkers tested positive before Christmas. They quarantined and are now back at work, where nobody else caught it (she works at a vet clinic, where they are masked all day and clients have to stay in their cars). The last time I was at the feed store, where almost nobody had been wearing masks previously, everyone was wearing one this time. Maybe they are taking things a bit more seriously?

My younger brother, who has been living with my dad ever since Mom died, has been like a hen with one chick trying to look after Dad. He's almost sneaking out of the house to go shopping; Dad does OK when he's well, but he's no youngster and his immune system has always been a bit weak, especially when it comes to respiratory infections. It wouldn't take much to put him in that graveyard beside Mom. It's sad to say, but the best thing I can do to protect him is stay away.


----------



## promiseacres

Please please please research the vaccine if you're thinking of getting it. A good friend of mine who is a nurse says most adverse reactions ARE NOT being made known to the public, if you get do it at a medical facility and stay afterwards for observation. She also says do not get it if your pregnant or trying to be, it WILL cause birth defects. 
She's not one to be online spouting drivel or crazy theories. I have been very alarmed to hear her opinions against the vaccines.


----------



## rachels.haven

This poses an interesting explanation why some people exposed in the same situation get it and others don't...not that I'm going eating at restaurants lately. Getting sick with it is a higher price than I'd like to pay for the ambiance of eating indoors with people.


----------



## Bunnylady

https://www.wect.com/2021/01/05/inflatable-christmas-costume-blamed-covid-outbreak-calif-er/

Some people want to quantify _everything_, but there are so many variables, you really can't just say "this many minutes" or "this many feet" with any other value being perfectly safe. Air flow is not equal; you can get eddies and dead spots and all sorts of odd things. I don't know how many times I have walked down an empty aisle in a store and smelled the cologne of a person that passed through some time before me, or smelled a cigarette being smoked by someone at least a hundred feet away. This is why mask wearing, hand washing, and not lingering if it can be avoided is so important - _any_ level of exposure is still exposure. As long as the virus is in the population, you can't make the risk of exposure zero, so anything you can do to reduce the likelihood of developing an infection is in your best interest.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Baymule said:


> You are right, it is like a spiderweb. People from all over, go to work, to the grocery store, to various places. Neighbors and friends all around us have had it. Our DD and two young children had it, I baby sat and my husband got it, I didn't. Your coworker now has it,  Your neighbor has it, you just can't hardly avoid it. I'm so sorry that you feel expendable, just do the best you can. Since you are considered an essential worker, can you get vaccinated or do you want to take the vaccine?


If and when it becomes available you betcha I'll take it.  I worry so much about my wife. My heart's a problem but I'm tough, take my pills and ask the Lord every day to help me, eat enough salad and fruit for a herd of rabbits and goats.  My wife is...well it would kill me if I brought it home to her. I do most of the shopping, public stuff. Anyway somebody wrote If you take the shot wait around in case something happens. I stay there 30 minutes now after the flu shot. I've seen a bad reaction to a flu shot before when I was in the navy. It was ugly and scary. Long as they've got epinephrine I'm good. Hospitals are close at work and home so yep sign me up. 👍


----------



## Simpleterrier

So it is around our area now. Most people it is just a mild cold. But we also have no cold or flu this year hmmm interesting.

Face mask argument everyone needs to get over that one there is facts from both sides. So someone is wrong or nobody knows and it's a stab in the dark.

Better yet u do u and I do me if u don't like me and I don't like u then don't say nothing and don't get close.

Why should we shut down to make one person happy?


----------



## Beekissed

Interesting video:  





__





						Log into Facebook
					

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.




					fb.watch


----------



## Bunnylady

Simpleterrier said:


> Why should we shut down to make one person happy?



Because that one person is the medical professional who is run off their feet trying to care for the ones for whom it is a lot more than like a mild cold?


----------



## Bunnylady

promiseacres said:


> She also says do not get it if your pregnant or trying to be, it WILL cause birth defects.
> She's not one to be online spouting drivel or crazy theories.


How in the world could she possibly know _anything_ about the vaccines and birth defects, when they haven't even begun testing on pregnant women and children yet? You avoid testing on pregnant women, because they are considered so vulnerable, and condemning a child to a lifetime of struggling with a disability for the sake of your short-term increase in information is considered reprehensible. You only move into that realm slowly and cautiously after plenty of time has proven the procedure safe in the non-pregnant, non-developing segment of the population, and they haven't gotten to that phase yet. Your friend may not be spreading these crazy rumors online, but apparently she has no problem with reading them and then spreading them in person. 

The first few months of a pregnancy are when the fetus is most vulnerable, and that's when most birth defects occur. Think about it - they didn't even have a vaccine to be testing in humans 9 months ago, let alone have enough time to be (either accidentally or deliberately) injecting pregnant females and seeing the results. There probably have been a few pregnancies among test subjects (if you include enough females of childbearing age in your test group, at least a few unintended pregnancies are bound to happen), but there simply hasn't been enough time for them to have gone to full term, and (assuming there is something wrong with the child) definitively link the defect to the vaccine.

I'm sorry to be so tough on the friend you clearly respect, but after what has just transpired in Washington, I have totally_ had it_ with conspiracy theories!


----------



## promiseacres

Bunnylady said:


> How in the world could she possibly know _anything_ about the vaccines and birth defects, when they haven't even begun testing on pregnant women and children yet? You avoid testing on pregnant women, because they are considered so vulnerable, and condemning a child to a lifetime of struggling with a disability for the sake of your short-term increase in information is considered reprehensible. You only move into that realm slowly and cautiously after plenty of time has proven the procedure safe in the non-pregnant, non-developing segment of the population, and they haven't gotten to that phase yet. Your friend may not be spreading these crazy rumors online, but apparently she has no problem with reading them and then spreading them in person.


She said it's in the small print of the possible side effects paperwork. I am sure she's not spreading any "crazy" rumors.  

We all need to educate ourselves and decide who to trust. There's an alarming rate of medical staff that are not getting the vaccine because it was rushed, we ALL should have that right.

  We know a woman that had covid around Thanksgiving, and was told she had to get the vaccine to keep her job, she is in the medical field. She got covid AT work, yet she had to take the time off with the disease unpaid. Her husband was paid for his time off for the quarantine through a gov. grant. She's reacting VERY badly (worse than having the disease) to the vaccine, they said because her body still has antibodies to it from having it. They said expect another BAD reaction with the 2nd dose. I don't believe her reaction has any of the heart issues, but feeling poorly as she has the disease again. 
My sister, a respiratory therapist was told you'll get the vaccine before you have 2 days off, that way you can be sick on your own time. If you get covid you'll still be expected to come to work. 

People are getting told the vaccine will solve everything... but what if it's worse than the disease????

Maybe I shouldn't share this knowledge... maybe we're all happy in our ignorant bliss. I've had way too many people lie to me in my life and I do not trust much anymore.


----------



## Beekissed

promiseacres said:


> She said it's in the small print of the possible side effects paperwork. I am sure she's not spreading any "crazy" rumors.
> 
> We all need to educate ourselves and decide who to trust. There's an alarming rate of medical staff that are not getting the vaccine because it was rushed, we ALL should have that right.
> 
> We know a woman that had covid around Thanksgiving, and was told she had to get the vaccine to keep her job, she is in the medical field. She got covid AT work, yet she had to take the time off with the disease unpaid. Her husband was paid for his time off for the quarantine through a gov. grant. She's reacting VERY badly (worse than having the disease) to the vaccine, they said because her body still has antibodies to it from having it. They said expect another BAD reaction with the 2nd dose. I don't believe her reaction has any of the heart issues, but feeling poorly as she has the disease again.
> My sister, a respiratory therapist was told you'll get the vaccine before you have 2 days off, that way you can be sick on your own time. If you get covid you'll still be expected to come to work.
> 
> People are getting told the vaccine will solve everything... but what if it's worse than the disease????
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't share this knowledge... maybe we're all happy in our ignorant bliss. I've had way too many people lie to me in my life and I do not trust much anymore.


Nope, continue to share, please.   I've read countless accounts from medical staffing who got even more ill from the vaccine, in the ICU two days after and some who have died a couple of days after getting it~but you are not going to hear that from the news media.   It's the responsibility of those who are experiencing it to share it to others if they would prevent further illness and/or death. 

Share the truth and those who receive it gladly will be glad you did so.  Those who don't like the information can just like it or leave it behind.  That's their problem and they can suffer the consequences of their own decisions in this world.  You've done your job at that point.  

It's very simple...if you don't like the information, give it a pass and ignore it.  If you do, read it and apply it.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

promiseacres said:


> She said it's in the small print of the possible side effects paperwork. I am sure she's not spreading any "crazy" rumors.
> 
> We all need to educate ourselves and decide who to trust. There's an alarming rate of medical staff that are not getting the vaccine because it was rushed, we ALL should have that right.
> 
> We know a woman that had covid around Thanksgiving, and was told she had to get the vaccine to keep her job, she is in the medical field. She got covid AT work, yet she had to take the time off with the disease unpaid. Her husband was paid for his time off for the quarantine through a gov. grant. She's reacting VERY badly (worse than having the disease) to the vaccine, they said because her body still has antibodies to it from having it. They said expect another BAD reaction with the 2nd dose. I don't believe her reaction has any of the heart issues, but feeling poorly as she has the disease again.
> My sister, a respiratory therapist was told you'll get the vaccine before you have 2 days off, that way you can be sick on your own time. If you get covid you'll still be expected to come to work.
> 
> People are getting told the vaccine will solve everything... but what if it's worse than the disease????
> 
> Maybe I shouldn't share this knowledge... maybe we're all happy in our ignorant bliss. I've had way too many people lie to me in my life and I do not trust much anymore.


Thank you for that post, I do not plan on. Getting the vaccine simply because it was created way to fast (in my opinion) ....I am almost 69 and in "that age group" with health concerns...but certainly perfectly  content to stay at home in my happy place , rather than inject myself willingly with a unproven dose of " who knows what the side effects are" vaccine ....
please continue to let us know what  people on the front lines are saying , it is very useful....let the haters be haters, none of us knows the truth about  this "virus "  , only what we are told....?


----------



## Beekissed

Vaccine rollout hits snag as health workers balk at shots
					

The desperately awaited vaccination drive against the coronavirus in the U.S. is running into resistance from an unlikely quarter: Surprising numbers of health care workers who have seen firsthand the death and misery inflicted by COVID-19 are refusing shots...




					apnews.com
				




Hallelujah that there are still some people in the medical fields with some common sense and enough guts to stand up for the truth!


----------



## Simpleterrier

So what I'm talking about why should we shut down for one person. Is if I want to have 50 people over and one of the people I invited doesn't like it and comes and complains what gives them the right to complain why should I honor their wish why don't they just leave. Or better yet they knew full well that it was not to their liking why would they go.


----------



## frustratedearthmother

?


----------



## Beekissed

https://thefederalist.com/2021/01/08/rip-big-pharma-study-shows-covid-immunity-is-long-las ting/

RIP Big Pharma: Study Shows COVID Immunity Is Long-Lasting

JANUARY 8, 2021 By Jordan Davidson

People who recovered from COVID-19 are likely to have “robust” and “long-lasting” immunity that lasts for years, a new study suggests.

According to research published in “Science,” people who recovered from COVID-19 have a very low risk of reinfection for at least five to eight months following contraction of the virus due to extremely high levels of immunity memory — but now it appears immunity lasts longer.

“There was a lot of concern originally that this virus might not induce much memory,” Shane Crotty, a researcher and a co-author of the paper, noted. “Instead, the immune memory looks quite good.”

After studying the blood samples from approximately 185 people who had previously contracted and recovered from COVID-19, researchers found that contrary to popular belief, 95 percent of participants’ antibodies and T-cell numbers only declined moderately after eight months following the original infection, resulting in longer-lasting immunity. Researchers also found that B-cell numbers, another component of maintaining immunity, remained fairly unchanged or sometimes even grew months after the patient’s recovery from the virus.

According to the study, the immunity memory created by these higher-than-anticipated antibody, T-cell, and B-cell numbers can help the body “restart antibody production and coordinate an attack against the coronavirus” quickly to prevent reinfection and potentially provide immunity for years, as it does with influenza, smallpox, and other diseases. Researchers were also quick to note that the same effect most likely applies to immunity that results from a dose of a COVID-19 vaccine.

One of the limitations of the study is that most people only offered one blood sample, providing only a glimpse into their current immunity. Another limitation is that there remains a small portion of people “with weak immune memory” who might not benefit long-term.

“Immunity varies from person to person, and uncommon individuals with weak immune memory still may be susceptible to reinfection,” Crotty said.

Despite these potential setbacks, researchers expressed hope that between the rollout of the vaccine and growing herd immunity, “durable immunity against secondary COVID-19 disease is a possibility in most individuals.”


----------



## rachels.haven

Heads up: That article was not left up (at all, or not at that address).


----------



## Bunnylady

Beekissed said:


> anything that doesn't "prove" the current narrative will be suppressed.



Come again?? The "current narrative" is that this is an evolving situation, and there's a lot that we don't know yet.  

And it _is_ evolving. It's an established fact that viruses are gonna virus, and new variants are bound to show up. The question has come up as to whether the current vaccines will be effective against the newer variants. Truth is, when the testing was done, it was done against something other than the newest variants (because, duh, the newest ones hadn't evolved yet), so until someone ascertains that the part that the vaccine uses to trigger the immune response is_ exactly _the same in the older versions and the new one, they can't be sure. But what reporter is going to be happy reporting, "I'm going to have to check into that, and get back to you. That may take a while?" Not one that wants to keep their job! So they report something, which may or may not later prove accurate, but that's not a conspiracy, it's a person saying, "I don't know" and someone else filling in the blank for them.

I recently saw an article (in the mainstream media!) that said that it now looks like immunity may be longer lasting than at first feared, and those apparent cases of rapidly recurring infection are extremely rare. That's science, folks - you look at a situation, come up with a theory, gather information, and if your data doesn't support your theory, you trash it and come up with a new one.

The problem is, the general public is desperate for information, and the media are trying desperately to provide that information. Nobody wants to wait for science to go "let's see what happens if we do this . . . oops, that's not good. Let's try this . . . . Nope. OK guys, we need a different theory, this just isn't working out. Anybody got any ideas?" They want answers NOW! So, in the interest of transparency, "what we think may be happening" gets handed over to someone in the press, who hands it on to someone else, and by the time it gets to Joe Public it's become like a game of Chinese Whispers (oops, is that racist? maybe I should have said a game of Telephone), and it can get very muddled. A bit back, I saw something that said that getting sick with Covid was only going to give you very brief immunity, while getting the vaccine was going to be much longer lasting, and I was like, "are you freakin' kidding me? How's_ that _supposed to work?" Obviously, something got lost in translation, and at some point, something that makes a lot more sense will come out.



rachels.haven said:


> Heads up: That article was not left up (at all, or not at that address).


Probably because of the _clearly_ conspiracy-theory nature of the title. The content of the article itself is so bland and common-sense it's almost boring, so apparently, some editor decided to jazz it up with that inflammatory click-bait title to get more people to read it. The author of the article even pointed out that the study is pretty shaky, due to the very limited and incomplete data set; it's obviously something that needs to be looked at more before one goes shouting from the housetops that getting sick is a great way to avoid ever getting sick again. That's not suppression, it's caution.

But mentioning games of Telephone, I suspect that is what happened with promiseacres and her friend the nurse. Have you ever seen one of those information/data sheets? They are, like, 95% mouse print. Most of it is written in legalese and geek speak and I sometimes wonder if the person who wrote it even understood what they meant. But there's a big difference between "don't do this, because we don't know that this won't happen," and "don't do this, because this _will_ happen." I say it again - she _can't_ know about any connection between the vaccine and birth defects, because _nobody_ knows it. No link has been established, because the testing hasn't been done yet. They very much _want_ to do the testing, because pregnant women are considered an "at risk" group and they would like to be able to offer them the option of the vaccine, but they have preferred to err on the side of caution for the moment. Ever since the Thalidomide catastrophe of the 60's, the medical community has been leery of giving anything to pregnant women. So if the information sheet _does_ mention birth defects, it's probably legal CYA - "if you do this in spite of our telling you not to, it's on your head."


----------



## Baymule

So I go to Tractor Supply for horse wormer and it is all locked up. Why? I was told because people are taking it for Covid 19. What? That's crazy.

But y'all know me, and I had to check it out. Turns out that there is ivermectin pills for people! I never knew..... I thought it was just worming treatment for animals! The articles I read were adamant to NOT take the horse wormer, reminding people that it is for a 1200 pound horse. Well DUH! I give it to sheep and pigs. There is measured markers on it for determining weight. Don't worry, I'm not taking horse wormer, apple flavored or not. LOL

This is very interesting, a lot of vitamins and boosting immune systems.






What To Take If You Have Covid-19​Many persons with Covid-19 find themselves at home, with relatively mild symptoms, and the doctor has not given them any medications. What should you do? What can you take? What To Do * If you thin…





 covid.us.org





Ivermectin for COVID-19: Worth a Shot?​Evidence base limited, including one withdrawn study with Surgisphere data



www.medpagetoday.com





On the Treatment of Covid-19​A Covid-19 early treatment protocol.





 swprs.org





Australian Professor: Ivermectin 'Amazingly Successful' in Killing Coronavirus​An Australian drug known as Ivermectin, which is already in use throughout the world to treat parasitic conditions, is showing great results in killing coronavirus in studies involving patients, according to Sky News."Because I'm involved in developing these in the U.S....



www.newsmax.com





Cheap hair lice drug may cut risk of COVID-19 death by 80 percent: study​Earlier studies have found similarly promising results.





 nypost.com

Schemes or Protocols – Ivermectin for COVID-19​





 covid19ivermectin.info

And just because I found this:





Home | Get Busy Living​



www.mycancerstory.rocks


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

I always told people if I got sick take me to the vet for a distemper shot.


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> Turns out that there is ivermectin pills for people! I never knew..... I thought it was just worming treatment for animals!



Ironic, but true - most therapies started out with humans in mind, and got tested on animals; only later did they get back to being used in animals, too. A while back, my daughter was given an antibiotic for something, and when I saw the label, I burst out laughing. It said sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim. "Do you know what that is?" I asked her. "SMZ's - that's what the vet gives the horses!"

The reason they say not to take the horse wormer is because you can't be sure that the little dab you put on your finger contains exactly the dose you may have calculated by weight or volume. The  paste may not be blended to a completely homogenous mixture, and the quantity of active ingredient in a tiny amount may be higher or lower than what's on the label. The content of the tube averages out to, say, 12%, but, since it is expected that most or all of the contents are going to be given at the same time, getting the drug perfectly, uniformly distributed throughout the entire tube isn't considered important.


----------



## rachels.haven

...so a lot of people are no longer going to have worms or lice...
Gee, I hope they don't poison themselves in the process. Getting sick from too much ivermectin isn't fun, I tell you (stupid pour on).
I wouldn't mind if ivermectin actually works for it. I don't trust people to self medicate properly though. If there is a way to mess something up, put it in front of a crowd and they will find it and a bunch of other ways. They kind of need those doses per various product concentrations and then they need to be able to READ and follow directions properly and measure.


----------



## farmerjan

There are signs here at the horse wormers that it is not for human consumption.   I have no problem with some ivermectin on the skin such as the pour-ons that we use for the cattle.  How many times have we spilled it on us in the course of worming the cattle.  
Yes it is used in many countries with parasitic problems.  Also for head lice. 
Look at the impassioned plea that Dr Pierre Kory made in front of the senate committee to consider ivermectin as a front line defense against the covid virus.....he has reams of studies that prove his point and list after list of other doctors and immunity researchers to back him up.  
DISGRACEFUL that the medical community will not look at all these "ALTERNATIVE"  drugs that could be useful....


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

All the news that is the news: 
Update; the maintenance man was taken to the hospital yesterday for breathing issues. He was diagnosed last Wednesday. The guy that got it over Christmas came back today. Trying to get in-depth details we were interrupted to no end by the migraine lady with her Friday migraine story. So tommorow I'lll try  to catch him while she's intriguing someone else with her medical nightmares. All total 10 people out, 2 definitely have it, 8 awaiting on results. 

Crazy times, makes you want to be a mountain top hermit.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Can't make this stuff up.
Home again, possible exposure at work. They swabbed both nostrils this time. 
Maintenance guy still in hospital. 2nd maintenance man and wife they're both negative as of Saturday .Good thing cuz I'm around her ALOT.
Still can't get contact on the missing guy.  Another lady has it as of today. Worked around her 4 days last week. She called out Monday. Here's some Karma she texted her buddy ,says tell them you're sick you'll get off a couple of days with covid pay.
 So me and 4 others got sent home today. Myself and the production manager this is our third time in less than 30 days with work exposure. Production manager has a total of 4 times in the same period once because of family.
I was able to talk to the guy who returned finally. Migraine tried her best to interrupt. In my politest fatherly tone, I said "Barbara the adults are talking" She's my age, got the point across though. So the guy tells me it was worse than any flu he's ever experienced. Took about 8 days before he felt like it was passing. Never coughed so hard or so much, fever, chills. No sense of smell or taste. No appetite ,got dehydrated, had to force himself to drink. About 3 or 4 days in he thought seriously about calling for an ambulance because of the coughing. He only saw a Dr to get tested. Only drugs he used was otc robitussin, tylenol, ibuprofen. He's single, luckily his sister lives close and brought him things as needed. That's what my poor memory can recall. His rendition much scarier than mine.
Checked with my boss. She and her husband both received the first vaccination at their firehouse. Don't know who the manufacturer was. As of today they have grown no xtra limbs, changed  skin color, experienced hair loss, sprouted gills or experienced weird psychotic fantasy's. I'll check again after the second vaccination.  A third eye may yet appear somewhere. Over 9 months of this now and mgmt is finally getting serious about our safety. Now that we have one maintenance man who by the way is 67 works 4 hrs a day and is suffering from liver failure and on the organ list. Oh yeah he's healthy. They're going to run new electric and airlines so people aren't working shoulder to shoulder. Social distance is 6 feet that's room for 4 people. I'm not lying. The computer, printer,bag sealer,2 people packing, the laser part marker all in about an 8 foot square. Count again that's 5 people all within each others reach. I'm supposed to get New protocol for how I do part inspection so that I'm separated. Just can't make it up.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Still waiting on the results phone call. Shop supervisor texted me this morning.  Maintenance man supposed to get released from the hospital today. Of the 8 people waiting on results 4 are positive now. Still haven't heard about the guy that disappeared. Thankfully I still feel alright, temperature has been 97.8 3 days running.
My wife was vaccinated today, don't know what companies product she got. She drives a bus for the tricounty transit and the state offered it. So bored I watch an episode of Game of Thrones then walk out and fool with the bunnies.  
I got interrupted with a text just now.  Somebody else has it. Lady that texted said she was sent home 5 hrs after me to get tested on Wednesday. Today Delaware Health department called her she has to get tested again. Her husband is the older maintenance guy. She cares for her 78 yr old Dad. He won't leave the farm and move in with her.  No other family close. One brother in Maine the other in Seattle. She was shoulder to shoulder couple of days with one that is positive. 
Every sneeze and cough you start wondering...


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

I got the call, negative again. 
Back to work, just as well the last episode of Game of Thrones is almost over.
 My wife's arm quit hurting from the shot finally. 
Hopefully this time since it was mostly the " I can't breathe crowd" they'll wear the masks and this will end at work.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Ok since January 1st out of 18 people in the shop. 8 people have gotten positive tests and are out of work.
All of them sick. Maintenance man waiting on his Dr to clear him. He's the only one who had to be hospitalized so far. Production manager finally caught it she's been home all week.
While I was out one of the "I can't breathe" crowd had a loud verbal altercation with a manager over not wearing her mask. She doesn't have to now, she got fired. One husband and wife team are out. He has it she doesn't. They cleared all tables and chairs from the break room. Have to eat in our cars now. Fine with me, I listen to the radio or call my wife and sit in my truck anyway. 21 ain't starting so good...


----------



## Rabbitsbysara

So you are going to get the vaccine? I seen today some politicians said you can't get your stimulus. I'm sorry but I am not getting the experimental rushed new mnra tech vaccine. I'll wait a while and see how everyone else does. I am a school bus driver and have no protection on the bus. Just mask. Kids don't wear the masks right or keep them on. They don't stay away. Chicago Schools were closed since March but now they open for prek and special needs. They are trying to get everyone back in. The teachers don't want to. I can't blame them. The schools are dirty. Kids are kids and always get sick and pass germs. I am going to look for another job, because it's so crazy now. Can't make any money anyways. I wish I had a small farm, I could support myself off of and not have to be around people. Covid has really changed alot. Even just going to store. I'd rather go without something than go to store. It's so stressful going places. And there is alot of crime robberies and car jacking. Those 9 months i was off, I just stayed home, worked outside, walked dogs, and I put up alot of my garden. I know alot of people had the covid, one person that was hospitalized and recovered, and I know two people that passed away. One thing is I know so many people who are in bad health to begin with. High blood pressure, diabetes, over weight. Americans need to do better than the crap they eat. Even the animal feed is all gmo soy and corn.


----------



## Baymule

@Rabbitsbysara good for you for having a garden. That’s taking control over your life and providing good food. By your name, do you also raise rabbits? I take it that you live in town, you are doing what you can where you are. I know it’s stressful, hang in there.


----------



## Rabbitsbysara

Yes I live in the suburbs right outside of Chicago. It is very stressful and there is so many people! I grew up on a small homestead. I am trying to get some land. My whole little yard is garden, plus I rent two large plots at a community garden. My dad lives a few blocks from me and he also gardens. Yes I have always had rabbits for the kids pets, but now I am selling a few for pets and planning on butchering the ones I'm growing out now. I just had two more litters. I have a nine year old daughter that I have have taught to grow and eat food. Most kids I know don't eat healthy, but my daughter loves veggies and fresh food. She is helping with rabbits and knows we are going to butcher. We also go to the orchards in Michigan and Indiana to pick fruit to can and dehydrate. They closed her school and their e-learning was really stupid, so I signed her up for a homeschool program online. It is much better. We will just wait it out for her, but I always felt her school wasn't the best. But where I live you don't get a choice of schools. I love forums like this where I can exchange with like minded people.


----------



## messybun

promiseacres said:


> I am with @Baymule we won't be getting a vaccine pushed so very fast through the "system" .   We are make Christmas goodies and planning on small gatherings this year. Stay home if you're sick. I still am fighting anxiety for the masks....firm believer that you can't control this type of virus and our days set the day we were conceived. To me the masks enforce the idea that we should be terrified of other people. One article told of a guy in NY saying we should view all other people as serial killers. But I am a rule follower and try to respect that many believe the mask makes them safer... so I wear one. Lots of deep breathes and a lifesaver helps as I always seem to need to cough in public... it's too bad that there's no longer anyone who allows for health exceptions...I am sure I am not alone with this anxiety.  DH can't wear one very long either, from his past with a clot in his lungs.
> But we are blessed, plenty of space and just a few projects to keep us busy.
> It's sure a crazy time.


Some of my family members have really bad breathing trouble anyways, being forced to wear a mask literally turns them blue. And, of course, because they can’t breath they cough. It freaks everybody out unfortunately. I really hate seeing the fear in other people’s eyes.


----------



## Rabbitsbysara

Pretty sure my daughter and I had the covid in December of 2019. Everyone was sick at that time and we were sick for like 2 months with fever coming and going no energy and horrible cough. We had also gotten sick in spring of 2020, but nowhere near as bad. But I can not breathe now and have very low energy. I have shortness of breathe walking, talking, wearing mask makes it worse. I wear mask around others as hopefully it offers me some protection. But we haven't gotten sick again, but we do take alot of precautions! Just makes me very nervous going back to work. I don't have anyway to be away from people. Most people have already had it so they aren't really worried about it anymore, at least in my area.


----------



## Baymule

@Rabbitsbysara could you please put your general location in your avatar? There's no way I'll remember where you are!   We think Covid ran through our family in early 2020. Sounds like you may be a long hauler. here's a link that may give you some ideas.









						What To Try If You Have LongCovid (Longhaulers)
					

What Causes LongCovid? LongCovid, also called Chronic Covid Syndrome or Longhaulers Syndrome, has multiple possible causes. At this point, it seems that some cases are caused by one thing and other…




					covid.us.org
				




And some ideas on home treatment









						What To Take If You Have Covid-19
					

Many persons with Covid-19 find themselves at home, with relatively mild symptoms, and the doctor has not given them any medications. What should you do? What can you take? See the latest I-MASK+ P…




					covid.us.org


----------



## Rabbitsbysara

I could if I knew how to! Lol I looked everywhere I don't see anything that says location??


----------



## farmerjan

Click on your name top right side of screen... then click on account details.  Go down that page and it will say location.  Type in your general location, state or something like that.  Save it and then it should show up on below your avatar.


----------



## Rabbitsbysara

Okay I think I did it?


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Rabbitsbysara said:


> So you are going to get the vaccine? I seen today some politicians said you can't get your stimulus. I'm sorry but I am not getting the experimental rushed new mnra tech vaccine. I'll wait a while and see how everyone else does. I am a school bus driver and have no protection on the bus. Just mask. Kids don't wear the masks right or keep them on. They don't stay away. Chicago Schools were closed since March but now they open for prek and special needs. They are trying to get everyone back in. The teachers don't want to. I can't blame them. The schools are dirty. Kids are kids and always get sick and pass germs. I am going to look for another job, because it's so crazy now. Can't make any money anyways. I wish I had a small farm, I could support myself off of and not have to be around people. Covid has really changed alot. Even just going to store. I'd rather go without something than go to store. It's so stressful going places. And there is alot of crime robberies and car jacking. Those 9 months i was off, I just stayed home, worked outside, walked dogs, and I put up alot of my garden. I know alot of people had the covid, one person that was hospitalized and recovered, and I know two people that passed away. One thing is I know so many people who are in bad health to begin with. High blood pressure, diabetes, over weight. Americans need to do better than the crap they eat. Even the animal feed is all gmo soy and corn.


Yes ma'am I will get the vaccination. Way past worrying about mutated genes. Exposed to bad stuff when I was younger. Still here not glowing " yet ". And if that hasn't gotten me there's years of smoking, round up, sevin dust , chewing tobacco, mercury and PCB in fish, lead solder. Wife, boss and her husband have gotten the first round with no problems. My wife drove school bus in 2017 and 18. Kindergarten thru seniors. The parents show you quick why the kids are bad. Now she drives for the tri-county transit. She has had problems with young adults wearing masks but mostly they follow the rules. She's masked and separated by a plastic screen.
Hang in there kid were all scared. I bought lottery tickets for the first time in awhile last week. I'm a sucker, but somebody won the powerball in Md. Getting closer to me.


----------



## Rabbitsbysara

Lol I got tickets too 12.00 worth I won 8.00! I've been driving school bus for 11 years unfortunately. I need to find another job, don't know what jobs are going to be available now. It's just rough for everyone now. I don't guess there was a way to know this was going to happen. But on the bright side it can always be worse right? I'm going to hold off on the vaccine, see what happens.


----------



## Baymule

The country of India is using the ivermectin protocol for treatment at a cost of less than $3 per person. Their Covid deaths are dropping. And just why is the USA and Europe and other stupid countries led by corruption going the vaccine/hospitilization/ventilator/death route? Can anybody say $$$$$$$


----------



## Rabbitsbysara

And India had I think it was 53 million unite and protest the shut downs, so they can farm and feed their country. They would never do that here. They don't care if we starve. And they already sold all the grain reserves to China! The US did. They sold all of 2021 harvests before its even harvested. The price of food and feed is going to skyrocket. This is going to have long term consequences as we all know. But do you know who owns the most Farmland in us? Bill gates. The guy who wants us all to get vaccinated and eat cricket protein and impossible meat. In UK they are killing all the livestock. Next pandemic.


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> The country of India is using the ivermectin protocol for treatment at a cost of less than $3 per person. Their Covid deaths are dropping.


Well, their number of deaths per number of cases has never been all that high (a little more than 1%), and their number of new cases has been dropping dramatically, too (like, 15% in the last week). It would be nice if one could point to a single, definitive cause for this trend, especially if it turned out to be something that could be repeated in other countries, but at the moment, they aren't sure why.

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/22/9591...cover-why-covid-19-cases-are-falling-in-india


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Rabbitsbysara said:


> Lol I got tickets too 12.00 worth I won 8.00! I've been driving school bus for 11 years unfortunately. I need to find another job, don't know what jobs are going to be available now. It's just rough for everyone now. I don't guess there was a way to know this was going to happen. But on the bright side it can always be worse right? I'm going to hold off on the vaccine, see what happens.


Woohoo 8 dollars. You can double your winnings really quick. Fold it in half and stick it in your pocket.
11 years you are tough. We both got tired of the baloney from the parents. Caught her crying one day and I had enough. Coming home 2 or 3 days a week having to call  the same parents over and over. Luckily they have video on the bus's and she proved her point. But getting threatened with I'll have you fired isn't worth it.
How are the bunnies?  The other day sounded kind of rough.


----------



## farmerjan

I mentioned in my journal, but will put it here if anyone is interested.  As @Rabbitsbysara  mentioned.  grains and such are "all of a sudden" at an all time low in storage....Feed prices are going up, and will continue if soybeans and corn continue to go up.  Soybeans were $10, then $ 12 a couple months ago when one of my farmers sold his on storage.  Now they are $14 and the talk is they might even hit $20 by summer.  Corn has gone up, not as much, but corn makes up ALOT of the tonnage in feed rations.  I am filling my feed bin this week with layer, 2 1/2 tons; and DS is putting 4 ton of stocker pellets in the one at the barn for the calves we have on feed. We will feed out quite a bit of that as top dress on the corn silage for them, but hope to sell in late Feb/Mar so we aren't feeding them too long. 
I am also getting the oil tank filled this week and he is filling the fuel tanks at the barn;    because with the bad will that will come from Canada, from the total shut down of the Keystone XL pipeline,  plus the different Indian Nations in Utah and New Mexico that are being affected from the moratorium on any activity on Federal lands, that they lease and or have supposed control of, there is going to quickly be increased prices as well as things getting in short supply.  I remember the 70's with the gas shortages.... it is not going to be pretty.
But, they have seen saying all along that they were doing to do this and yet no one listened....Well, 74 million of us listened.... This rash of executive orders are going to hopefully wake up alot of the ones that didn't bother to research the agendas.  The unions that supported Biden are now raising cane that he has shut down the pipeline since it was nearly all union jobs....

I cannot believe that so many are saying that they are not sure of  what the cause is that India is having so many fewer and milder cases of this virus..... they are not willing to even give grudging positive press to the ivermectin.  Tired of the total disregard for human life in the pursuit of the almighty $$$$$ here. 
Research the talk that Dr Pierre Kory presented to the senate subcommittee not too long ago.  The man was practically in tears begging the subcommittee to look at the amassed data he had on Ivermectin and the results.  With hundreds of colleagues to back up his research and hundreds of different examples where it had been used.

And this is another form of "treatment" that has been around for a long time, used regularly for other treatments ....lice, parasites...... and CHEAP,  with a wide margin for error in use.


----------



## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> they are not willing to even give grudging positive press to the ivermectin. Tired of the total disregard for human life in the pursuit of the almighty $$$$$ here.



Y'know, it might not be about the money. The problem is that, any time a possible treatment gets mentioned in the press, people stampede to get their hands on it and take it (remember Trump and the hydroxychloroquine, which he insisted on taking when no study had ever even _suggested_ that it might be useful prophylactically?)
Observational studies are all very well, but they can be biased; there are other ways in which the data can be compromised. For a study to be considered valid, other people need to get the same results when they do the steps described in the study, and this is proving difficult with ivermectin. In countries like India, with so many endemic diseases (including parasitic ones), just finding enough "clean" test subjects who haven't taken ivermectin for something or other to start a large-scale study is tricky enough, but then when you have holes in data collection, getting clear, meaningful results can be a nightmare. A lot of the studies that have been done are very small, or haven't been peer-reviewed, or have been withdrawn because of faulty data, etc. Before an authority makes a recommendation on a treatment, they want to be sure that it is safe and effective. When you feel that the only data you can absolutely trust is your own, and when, based on your own data, all you can really say is, "well, it shouldn't_ hurt_ . . . "  That's hardly reason for a ringing endorsement.


----------



## Baymule

If I had Covid, I would try it. 2-3 doses, 2 days apart and supposedly you are done. Yes, I would do that instead of the current treatment and landing in a hospital, dying on a respirator. Heck, if it didn't work, I could always go get hooked up to what we already know more times than not, ends in death. I'm being a little facetious here, but it is my nature to make jokes when things get too serious. LOL 

Not all Covid cases are that bad, not all end in death. But I should have the choice and that choice is not offered. Having had livestock, I use ivermectin on them. I've gotten it on me and suffered no ill effect. I know it absorbed into my skin, there is not always a sink to wash away the things that get on you when working with animals. 

We, as  nation, use it on our _children_ for head lice. If it were that dangerous, we sure wouldn't be rubbing it on our precious kids heads. @Bunnylady I am certainly not picking on you, you bring out very valid points. You are always the voice of reason.  We are _already_ using ivermectin, and on our children! 









						NIH Revises Treatment Guidelines for Ivermectin for the Treatment of COVID-19
					

NIH Revises Treatment Guidelines for Ivermectin for the Treatment of COVID-19 Ivermectin is Now a Therapeutic Option for Doctors & Prescribers




					www.newswise.com
				












						Cheap hair lice drug may cut risk of COVID-19 death by 80 percent: study
					

Earlier studies have found similarly promising results.




					nypost.com
				




This article is from Nigeria. I'm providing the link, as well as copy and paste. It is very thought provoking. 









						IVERMECTIN: The wonder anti-COVID-19 drug - The Nation Newspaper
					

If you are a regular reader of this column, you are most likely to believe that COVID-19 exists, infects, and kills people. But you may not




					thenationonlineng.net
				




_*By Niyi Akinnaso*_​If you are a regular reader of this column, you are most likely to believe that COVID-19 exists, infects, and kills people. But you may not know how devastating it has been for the world population. Specifically, as of 4:00pm on January 19, 2021, it has infected over 96 million and killed over 2 million worldwide. Here in Nigeria, it has infected over 112,000 and killed at least 1,449. Note that these are only reported cases locally and globally.

Furthermore, if you are still under the impression that there is no cure for COVID-19, then please read further about a cheap drug that has now been found to be very effective against COVID-19, either as a prophylaxis to prevent infection from taking hold or as treatment after infection. The drug is Ivermectin, which is available as a generic drug or under the brand name Stromectol.

This drug has been around since the 1980s. It was originally used mainly in creams and lotions to treat lice. A tablet form was later produced to treat parasitic infections of the intestinal tract, skin, and eyes. It later became a cure for roundworm infection and second-line treatment for scabies and rosacea, a skin condition that results in redness and causes pus-filled bumps on the face. Finally, it was also found to be a cure for onchocerciasis, also known as river blindness, caused by insect vectors, especially black flies, that breed in water.

What is particularly interesting about this drug is that at least 90 percent of the parasitic infections it was designed to cure were prevalent in Africa. The drug was found to be so effective against these infections that it even eradicated them and related infections. The drug is so cheap that it was even distributed free of charge in many African countries, including Nigeria.

As the world struggles to find a cure to COVID-19, a group of Australian researchers went to work on Ivermectin, only to discover in various experiments that it inhibited the replication of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The finding led to more research in human populations. Altogether, at least 27 studies have been conducted in numerous countries, including Argentina, Bangladesh, Egypt, India, Iran, Pakistan, Spain, and the USA.

The findings show that Ivermectin substantially reduces the risk of death from COVID-19 by between 65% and 92%, depending on the severity of the case before the commencement of Ivermectin medication. Some of the studies show that death even could be completely averted, if the drug was promptly administered in the early stages of infection. Even more importantly, Ivermectin was found to be more effective than monoclonal antibodies and convalescent plasma, both of which are widely used in the treatment of COVID-19 in the United States.

Similarly, when Ivermectin is used as prophylaxis, it substantially reduces COVID-19 infections, by as much 90% or higher! This puts Ivermectin in the same class or higher than available vaccines. When both are compared, it makes sense to invest in Ivermectin, which costs next to nothing, rather than in vaccines with their prohibitive costs and availability problems.


Even more worrisome is the efficacy of available vaccines on the Nigerian population, especially since Nigeria was not a participant in any of the test phases of the vaccines. By contrast, many Nigerians have used Ivermectin one way or the other in cream, lotion, or tablet form in the past. Moreover, unlike vaccines, Ivermectin is globally available, low cost, and needs no special shipping or handling. Finally, unlike vaccines, whose tolerance has not been tested on the Nigerian population, Ivermectin is well tolerated.

Unfortunately, however, the drug has suffered ignoble delay in recognition, especially in the United States, despite its long-standing approval by the Food and Drug Administration (the equivalent of our NAFDAC). There are two major reasons for this delay. One has to do with the conflict between the political and scientific communities in the United States as a result of the obstinacy of the outgoing American President, Donald Trump, and his demonstrated disregard for science and scientists. This is evident, for example, in his handling of COVID-19 and climate change.

Another reason for the delayed response to Ivermectin is the early huge investment in COVID-19 vaccine by major Western and Asian countries, especially the United States, the UK, and China. Clearly, these investors would like to recoup their capital by selling the vaccines to other countries. As a result, they have remained tone-deaf to pharmaceutical remedies for COVID-19 or at least relegated them to the background.

Recently, however, on January 14, 2021, the National Institute of Health in the United States approved the inclusion of Ivermectin as an option for use in COVID-19. This followed powerful and convincing presentations by Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC), which detailed the efficacy of Ivermectin in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 to two relevant and powerful Committees in the United States.

One was the American Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, which held a hearing on “Early Outpatient Treatment: An Essential Part of a COVID-19 Solution” on December 8, 2020.  The other was to the National Institute of Health (NIH) Treatment Guidelines Panel on COVID-19 on January 6, 2021.

Fortunately, there is now a group of researchers in Nigeria, led by Professor Femi Babalola, the Principal Investigator of the IVERCOVID study, whose whose purpose is to conduct a double blind randomized clinical trial to assess not just the efficacy but also the safety of Ivermectin in the prevention and treatment of COVID-19 in Nigeria. The trial may also be able to provide useful guidelines for the dosage of the drug for prophylaxis and for treatment of COVID-19 as there are no such guidelines at the moment.

This trial is now very urgent in view of the ongoing spike of infections in the country. It has cleared NAFDAC approval and given a nod by the Presidential Task Force on COVID-19. It will be a great shame indeed, if the study were to suffer from lack of funding.


For those, who are already taking the drug in Nigeria, it is best taken on an empty stomach about an hour before food. Finally, patients of asthma and liver condition should consult their doctors before taking it.

******************************************************************************

So just why are we lining up for a new technology, relatively untested on humans, being guinea pigs for expensive vaccines? When ivermectin has been used for decades with success on other diseases, it has recently been approved by the NIH, why are we not demanding it?

This post is for discussion. That is how we all learn, by tossing ideas around, finding facts to back it up and discussing it all.


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## farmerjan

THANK YOU @Baymule .  I am not computer savvy enough to be able to pull that stuff and do the links.  The Dec 8, meeting of the Senate committee on the early treatment is the one that I believe that Dr. Pierre Kory testified at.  He had pages of studies that have been done, and all the researchers and doctors that have been trying to get this in the forefront.  I do not totally agree with the comment that Trump was not listening to the science in that he was listening to the "experts" in Dr Faucci and that was a total disaster... and now we have him shoved down our throat with the Biden administration.   But regardless, I really like all the things that were brought up and put out there for discussion.  
I will also do "alternative"  SAFE AND TRIED AND TRUE things like Ivermectin,  long before I will try a new rushed vaccine....And I will work on getting and keeping my immune system as healthy  as I can.


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## Grizzlyhackle

farmerjan said:


> Feed prices are going up,


50# bag of rabbit pellets went up a dollar since November. 16.99 for Southern States. I missed the sale they had last month.


farmerjan said:


> Corn has gone up





farmerjan said:


> I remember the 70's with the gas shortages.... it is not going to be pretty.


Me too and tankers sitting in Delaware bay up by Wilmington waiting to offload. Odd an even days. Great wasn't it.


farmerjan said:


> .Well, 74 million of us listened...


Yes ma'am I did. Gas started creeping up now 2.50-2.51. was 2.25 3 weeks ago. Met the current occupant once as a kid. Was not impressed. He was running for the Senate his first time around.


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## Rabbitsbysara

The bunnies are good. My new Zealand had 12 but 9 are still alive. 
My champagne had 10, all alive. The other doe is living it up inside and has yet to pull a single hair. I gave both does silver, alfalfa, and alot of Kale and they are both fine now. They are both very good momas. But that is alot of kits!!


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## Mini Horses

As with many supplies on hand, ivermectin is one!  Lol.  No doubt I've absorbed some  many times over the years.   Maybe that's why I'm healthy...     have a great supply of elderberry juice and berries...another antiviral item, garlic is a favorite too.  I'm good.

I understood the pipeline shutdown was a temporary thing...like a few months 

Here's another who remembers those even & odd days for gas.  Fun for all, not!  My uncle, who worked for BP, said there were all kinds of full tank cars of product sitting around.....just being "held". 

I'm more concerned about the feed prices!   Currently a farmer who raises and sells feed, says he's doing ok with last yr prices to his customers.  It's a "sideline" thing as he actually raises for own livestock, sells extras.  Of course fuel going up will be an issue.


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## Rabbitsbysara

Fuel is already 2.60 here. Went up about 2 weeks ago. Feed prices will steadily rise. This stuff is far from over and as always its good to be prepared and stocked up. Winter will be over soon, that's the good news. My rabbits won't produce on the cheap feed, I have to buy the Manna gro it is currently 20.00 for a 50lb bag. Anyone who raises livestock will surely feel the costs, as well as the cost of eggs and meat rise. I wish I could have chickens here but that's a big no no.


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## Aunt Angus

Not a farmer by any stretch of the imagination, but COVID has affected me. I just recovered from being sick with it nearly a month. It was not like the regular flu for me. I never had a fever or the cough, but I lost my sense of smell and taste and ended up with a chest wall infection that had me down for the count. I barely moved for weeks, and when I went in for the infection, it turned out my O2 levels were low (70% on a good day), so I ended up on oxygen. I couldn't talk and it hurt like hell to breathe. And I'm in my 40s and don't have underlying conditions.

I'm a teacher. In California. So my job has been greatly affected now that I can't go into the classroom. I'm extremely grateful I am still employed, but I HATE teaching online. It's like 500x the work. I am up until 2 or 3 am every night trying to get the stupid online stuff to work. And on top of that, I've got parents telling me I'm a lazy union lackey who needs to get off my a$$ and work, and that I'm a loser who just wants to get paid for nothing. My students ignore me. I don't know what any of them look like. 

It has been utterly demoralizing. I have never felt so lost and so... _hated_. I am hated by everyone. And if I hear one more parent say I have an easy job and that I get paid to just sit around, I am going to scream. 

Except I can't because my chest wall hurts too much.

Sorry to rant. I'm done now.


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## Rabbitsbysara

I am so sorry to hear that. Everyone knows teachers have a very hard job. Chicago teachers may strike. Cps wants the kids to all go back to school on February 1st. But there is the danger of covid. Which they say isn't now. But high school doesn't have a return date. There is no way to be safe with all them kids. And I know the e-learning sucks. Teachers hate it, kids hate it. I signed my daughter out and enrolled her in an online homeschool program. She is not going back to school this year, but she is still learning. I hope that you feel better soon.


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## Grizzlyhackle

Aunt Angus said:


> So my job has been greatly affected now that I can't go into the classroom. I'm extremely grateful I am still employed, but I HATE teaching online. It's like 500x the work. I am up until 2 or 3 am every night trying to get the stupid online stuff to work. And on top of that, I've got parents telling me I'm a lazy union lackey who needs to get off my a$$ and work, and that I'm a loser who just wants to get paid for nothing. My students ignore me.
> 
> Sorry to rant. I'm done now.


Rant away kid just know you are not alone.
I hear parents at work. Not complaining about the teachers but the online problems. Most were out at school years beginning. They couldn't believe how some of the other kids acted. Even online they disrupt the class. Passwords change, new ones don't work. A 7 yr old with Grandma trying to get the laptop to work. Calling Mom at work, she's calling the school then calling the child to relay the info. Not supposed to have their phone at work. One lady broke out in tears.  please don't grade me for grammar and spelling.


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## Aunt Angus

I can imagine parents are frustrated! I would probably go crazy if I was in their situation! 

It's a bad situation for everyone. I just wish parents wouldn't take it out on me. I'm just doing what I'm told. I'd much rather be in the classroom. One district not far from ours reopened at the beginning of January and had to close again last week because most of the staff got sick, and there weren't enough people left to run the school. At our school, we are getting reports of kids - nearly a dozen each day - who have come down with COVID. 

We are supposed to get the vaccine soon. I am supposed to get it even though I already had COVID. I haven't decided if I'll agree to ig or not. My sister (doctor) says there are 2 kinds. One she won't get, the other she says is ok. But I'm thinking I'll refuse it and let the county give it to someone else since I'm not likely to get sick again.


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## Baymule

@Aunt Angus look on the previous page for my post on using ivermectin. It has also been used for the after effects and for people who are called long haulers. It has just been approved by the NIH. Ask your sister about it.


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## promiseacres

@Aunt Angus  sorry it's been so very tough.
 I have said  again and again, I've been so blessed to have decided to homeschool 4 years ago. My kiddos and I haven't had to go the many transitions that the PS kids and Teachers have. Our local schools are back in session since last fall and yes there were cases at times but overall it's what needed to be done. Too many kids need the school to have some consistency in their lives. So yes when these schools go back that haven't they need to expect cases.   

You can't hide from it. My husband's grandfather has it... he went to live in a nursing home last March, 10 days before the shut down..... He's been there since, only was allowed visitors a bit last summer out side and "don't touch".  He got the vaccine earlier this month... yet he is positive. Fortunately the NH is saying no symptoms are being seen at this time (it's a week in) as he also has emphysema. 

If we get it I'll be like @Baymule... bring on the ivermectin!  but I still think it went through my family Dec 2019... but is hard to say.


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## Aunt Angus

Baymule said:


> @Aunt Angus look on the previous page for my post on using ivermectin. It has also been used for the after effects and for people who are called long haulers. It has just been approved by the NIH. Ask your sister about it.


I have read it, and I will ask her!

I know others have it a lot worse than I do. I rarely complain, but it feels good to let off some steam! Haha!


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## Grizzlyhackle

Some of the people that tested positive came back today. Only the maintenance guy went to the hospital. He said he couldn't get a breath anymore. He spent 4 days on oxygen. Started feeling better and was sent home. Wasn't getting any rest anyway. Other two had bad chills,felt crappy. The one guy said it was like the worse flu he ever had. We're still trying to figure out was it all transmitted at work or outside, why it skipped around. Hit 1 skipped 2, hit 2 skipped 2 more. I'm in and out missed me entirely then 30 feet away that guy has it and his wife doesn't. I don't get it. Hand sanitizer is making my hands itch and breakout. Brand they are using is from a local distillery, it smells like good bourbon though.


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## Baymule

Grizzlyhackle said:


> Some of the people that tested positive came back today. Only the maintenance guy went to the hospital. He said he couldn't get a breath anymore. He spent 4 days on oxygen. Started feeling better and was sent home. Wasn't getting any rest anyway. Other two had bad chills,felt crappy. The one guy said it was like the worse flu he ever had. We're still trying to figure out was it all transmitted at work or outside, why it skipped around. Hit 1 skipped 2, hit 2 skipped 2 more. I'm in and out missed me entirely then 30 feet away that guy has it and his wife doesn't. I don't get it. Hand sanitizer is making my hands itch and breakout. Brand they are using is from a local distillery, it smells like good bourbon though.


January 2020, our daughter got sick and their two youngest daughters did too. Son in law didn't get sick, nor their 13 year old daughter. I babysat the two littles, held and rocked them. My husband got sick, I didn't. We think it was Covid, it took several trips to doctor, rounds of antibiotics and steriod shots for my husband and daughter to kick it. Last month, we described it to DH's doctor and he agreed that it was more than likely Covid. My point is, it skipped around people in the same household. Why? Dunno.


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## Alaskan

My mom just got over it, she is 77...  pretty much just a mild cold for her..  she said she was a bit tired for 3 days...  

Brother in law in mid 50s who just a few years back had a huge cancerous mass on his almost ruptured intestines had almost zero symptoms but tested positive... his wife, my sis (only 45)  is way worse than my mom.

Crazy stuff


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## Alaskan

For me the biggest issue has been the rabbid unhappiness and hurt feelings of mask verses no-mask.


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## Grizzlyhackle

Alaskan said:


> For me the biggest issue has been the rabbid unhappiness and hurt feelings of mask verses no-mask.


Yes.  Not so much in public but at work.  And the one's out now for the most part have been the group fighting it.


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## Baymule




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## Bunnylady

promiseacres said:


> He got the vaccine earlier this month... yet he is positive.


The vaccines that are currently in use here have to be administered as two shots, given 2-4 weeks apart, and take up to a month to build an appropriate immune response. So yeah, there is a large window of opportunity for even those in the first wave of vaccinations to get infected. The good news is, even partially vaccinated people seem to have a better chance of having only a mild case if they are unlucky enough to get infected before they've had the time to become fully resistant. I hope your husband's grandfather continues to do well.




Alaskan said:


> For me the biggest issue has been the rabid unhappiness and hurt feelings of mask verses no-mask.


Indeed. For me, the hardest thing has been watching as some people fight so hard to _not_ believe that this is a disease, and just do things that centuries of science tell us are common-sense ways to avoid disease. This should never have become a political football; sewing divisiveness and suspicion is a game that nobody wins.  I learned a very long time ago to pay no attention to anything that starts with "_they_ won't tell you this," or better yet, "_they_ don't want you to know this," - the person who says that _definitely_ has a dark agenda, and is actively trying to create discord rather than help the situation.

We are all stuck in this boat; with the shore a long way off and none of us able to walk on water, creating a battle on board just means that many fewer hands pulling on the oars.


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## Simpleterrier

Then explain to me why those who wear a mask and are ultra clean get sick right besides those who don't wear a mask and don't use hand sanitizer. 

The best explanation is no one knows and fighting over it doesn't do anything. You do what u think is right and don't harass those who think different.


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## Bunnylady

Simpleterrier said:


> Then explain to me why those who wear a mask and are ultra clean get sick right besides those who don't wear a mask and don't use hand sanitizer.


Science says it _helps_; nobody claims it's a magic wand or a get-out-of-jail-free card. It's about percentages. The vaccines aren't perfect, either - even the best only has about 95% effectiveness. Should they just forget about the vaccines, because they don't work 100% of the time?

You can be the world's most careful driver, and still die in a car accident if you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time,  y'know?


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## Simpleterrier

Science tries to figure out who's hand fits which oar the best while the common folk just pull start the johnson and zip back to shore.


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## farmerjan

Our local Red Cross had a thing on the radio needing blood donors because they are not doing their normal blood drives..... And as part of it, they will test your blood for possible anti-bodies for the virus.... said right in the ad that since many people think they might have had it, or were exposed and never had any symptoms but wonder if they actually had it and were asymptomatic... so they will test it and see if you have anti-bodies.... and if it is a good response, they might call you in for a donation to use the anti-bodies for other people.... 
I normally give blood at the church down the road in Feb or Mar but they are not having the blood drive.... I think I will call and see about setting up an appt and do the blood donor thing and get it tested for anti-bodies.


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## farmerjan

A post in a cattle forum I frequent from Americas Front Line Doctors released on Jan 26th.... " The truth about the Covid-19 vaccine.".. is something that you need to look at.  Some will poo-poo this but there are just too many doctors and researchers that back up this.  And of course, the drug hydroxychloroquine has since QUIETLY been re-approved for use and there are reams of studies/evidence of the use of ivermectin.....  THE NUMBERS don't lie and they are put out by the WHO and the CDC on the actual death rate.....the same as for a normal year of the flu....
Tired of the BS with the drama.... it is a disease, it does kill people.... and it is much more survivable than they want us to know so that they can keep us under their thumbs and propagate the fear and control.


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## farmerjan

New post referred to on another cattle forum post..... the site "100percentfedup.com"  article that links to the CDC site....CDC Exposed ...inflate Covid deaths  by 1600%..... 
CDC.GOV/NCHS/NVSS/VSRR/Covid_weekly/index.HTM#Comorbidities...

Okay, what this says is that they CHANGED the way they recorded deaths for the last 15 years in March, 2020 for the requirements of how a certain type of death is recorded....  in other words, the rules/guidelines on how a death is reported say for the flu, or something else... had certain guidelines so that if someone died of something the death had to meet certain guidelines to be classified as a certain death.... I was reading it, we lost our power for a few minutes so I lost it and will go back later as I have to go do a few things.... but EVERYONE SHOULD READ IT...... 

Da#@ all these people that are destroying this country and manipulating this for their political and financial gain and the ability to control us.


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## farmerjan

Was just lambasted on the cattle forum by a member that "fact checked" this post with "snopes"... as being right wing rhetoric....  half truths etc.... but if you go on the peer review study... by the IPAK PHPI and published in the Science Public Health Policy and LAW published on OCT 12 2020.... it details all the differences in how the reporting guidelines were suddenly changed in Mar 2020.... to make every death look like covid regardless of the co-morbidities.... 
Like I am going to believe a snopes fact check anymore.... I sure don't fully understand that report... I will re-read it several times more because I can be slow on the uptake.... but if I am even getting it half understood.... we have been TOTALLY MANIPULATED in this whole "PANDEMIC"  BS..... because people die of the flu in huge numbers too... but they take into account for the other contributing causes....


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## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> the actual death rate.....the same as for a normal year of the flu...


According to the WHO, in an "average" flu year, something between 250,000 and 500,000 (or, by another estimate, as many as 650,000) people die of flu every year. How is that the same as the 2.3 million deaths that have been racked up by Coronavirus so far? Do  you really think they only consider people who were otherwise young and healthy, with no co-morbidities or other complications, when they count flu deaths?


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## farmerjan

Bunnylady said:


> Science says it _helps_; nobody claims it's a magic wand or a get-out-of-jail-free card. It's about percentages. The vaccines aren't perfect, either - even the best only has about 95% effectiveness. Should they just forget about the vaccines, because they don't work 100% of the time?
> 
> You can be the world's most careful driver, and still die in a car accident if you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time,  y'know?


So you should lock yourself in your house and never drive again


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## farmerjan

Bunnylady said:


> According to the WHO, in an "average" flu year, something between 250,000 and 500,000 (or, by another estimate, as many as 650,000) people die of flu every year. How is that the same as the 2.3 million deaths that have been racked up by Coronavirus so far? Do  you really think they only consider people who were otherwise young and healthy, with no co-morbidities or other complications, when they count flu deaths?


Because the numbers have been inflated for the covid deaths, because they have not taken out the co-morbidities of all that have died "from Covid"......
I am done with the conversation.  I know of a young guy who was drunk, wrapped his car around a tree and died in the hospital... but he had been confirmed positive and so he died of covid.... that is not the only one so I am tired of the whole BS.


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## promiseacres

@farmerjan  it is so very wearisome. People will believe what they want to.


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## Beekissed

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1317767048596684


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## Grant

My wife and I are getting vaccines on Thursday.


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## farmerjan

@Beekissed  that is a hugely informative referral.... I saved it into my bookmark... it keeps disappearing from your post but I did manage to catch it... and I wrote down the reference.  
Hoping that since Parler is back up, that they will get it posted on there......


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## Bunnylady

That's certainly where it belongs, with all the rest of the conspiracy theories. I only got about 3 minutes into it before I had to stop, but it's, what, 6 or 8 months old?



Rashid Buttar is an Osteopath with a long history of selling his own brand of "snake oil" treatments, which, while he hasn't been totally disbarred from practicing, has resulted in his being officially reprimanded for unprofessional conduct. If you want a poster child for "conspiracy theorist," you can't do better than him.


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## farmerjan

Like Faucci is better..... supporting the lab where the virus is from;  kissing the a$$ of the chinese and all....


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## farmerjan

Has anyone seen the report by JOHN'S HOPKINS surgeon and researcher,   that says we should pretty much have achieved "herd immunity" by April because so many more have had it than have been diagnosed and there have been very high titers of anti-bodies when the ones that have had it, have tested.... better than the results from the vaccine??? 
But I suppose the site Media ite and Fox News shouldn't be believed....


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## Bunnylady

farmerjan said:


> Like Faucci is better..... supporting the lab where the virus is from;  kissing the a$$ of the chinese and all....


Which lab? A Chinese one, or an American one? Or just spin the wheel of conspiracy theories and see what comes up, since they go both ways?

There is no evidence that the virus is anything other than a natural occurrence, but of course, anyone steeped in conspiracy theories will refuse to believe that.

BTW, that's not a _report _from the Johns Hopkins surgeon, it's an op-ed piece - one man, voicing an _opinion_, which may or may not prove to be accurate. They've been saying all along that the numbers of infections are probably higher (maybe a lot higher) than the number of positive tests. Certainly, the number of positive cases is down, as are hospitalizations; there's no way that's just because of the vaccines. It's a positive sign, but it's not time to let our guard down yet (which is why more cautious experts aren't saying things like this).


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## Mike CHS

@farmerjan - you are wasting your time in this thread.


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## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> @farmerjan - you are wasting your time in this thread.


I agree.  There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.   They love the false drama of it all, it seems to give their life a purpose it never had.  You simply cannot offer truth to those who love a lie.


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## Bunnylady

Honestly, I think she's wasting her time filling her head with those conspiracy theories . . .


Baymule said:


> Please, no political or conspiracy crap.


 . . _and_ being disrespectful to her friend, who specifically requested not to have it here.

One of my favorite movie lines comes from The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe. In the scene, three of the Pevensie children have just watched as their brother walks into the White Witch's castle. They are acutely aware of the danger he's in, even if he isn't. Susan and Peter wind up taking their frustration and anxiety out on each other, and Lucy, the youngest, stops their quarreling with the simple statement, 

"This isn't helping Edmund!"

That's the thought that comes into my mind every time I see someone bringing up some of this conspiracy stuff (most of which is many months old and has been debunked countless times over). The disease is real, the problem is real; what we need to be focused on is working our way through the problem. Creating drama by making up lies about the people who are trying to deal with the problem isn't helping Edmund or anyone else. Anthony Fauci is just a man, trying to do his job. He's the kind of person that errs on the side of caution. He has had the unenviable job of telling people things that they really would rather not hear, and has had that job made infinitely more difficult by having to deal with a president that belittled him, contradicted him, refused to talk to him for weeks at a time, and publicly stated that he would fire him as soon as the election was over. The only thing he can do is advise, trying to blame him when people ignore that advice is pointless. 



Beekissed said:


> There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.



Ain't that the truth!


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## Bunnylady

So, I've read the editorial in the Wall Street Journal by Dr. Marty Makary (the guy who is thinking we will achieve "herd immunity" by April). His logic is this:

the 500,000 Americans who have died of Covid-19 represent about .15% of our population.
The mortality rate for Covid-19 is .23%
Since  .15 is about 2/3 of .23, that should mean that about two thirds of our population have had Covid-19 at this point (remember, there are supposed to be an awful lot of people who have mild symptoms or even no symptoms at all, who may not even think to get tested, even if they have easy access to getting tested - which a lot of them may not have).

Add those hypothetical millions of cases of previous infection to the 150 million people that the
government is hoping to have vaccinated by the end of March, and the Coronavirus will have a pretty hard time finding anyone new to infect.

Anyway, that's his theory. The problem is, you can't prove it. The vast majority of those hypothetical and known previous infections won't have any antibodies present in their blood, so you can't prove it by testing. (Incidentally, he said nothing at all about naturally acquired immunity being in any way superior to vaccination; wherever that came from, it wasn't Dr. Makary). What he did say, is that these people should have "activated T-cells;" white blood cells that will remember the virus and respond appropriately if they meet it again.

But like I said, as things stand right now, you can't prove it. Science wants numbers, hard data. Biden himself told his experts, "Don't guess. If you aren't sure, say you don't know." People's faith in our country's leadership has been severely shaken, and he wants to know that whatever line the administration presents is backed by solid evidence.   Right now, the only thing they know for sure is that the numbers of new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are down, exactly why is still guesswork.

So, why the difference between this doctor's opinion and that of the "experts?" Well, look at what they do. Dr. Makary is a surgeon. It takes a pretty bold person to slice into a live patient, believing that the damage you are doing will ultimately be for the patient's good. So, surgeons by nature tend to be optimists. Dr. Fauci is an epidemiologist. In his 80 years on this planet, he has had plenty of opportunities to see how stupid people can be when it comes to diseases, so it makes sense that he'd be a pessimist. Makary is like, "numbers are dropping; this is a hopeful sign! Let's tell people there's hope!" Fauci is more along the line of "if we speak too soon, they may just throw caution to the wind and we may lose ground. We can't start celebrating yet."

So what's the take-away? Short term, keep handwashing, masking, social distancing; if you were planning on getting vaccinated, this isn't a reason to change that. Long term? Well coronavirus is not going to just go away; it most likely will always be something a doctor has to consider when they are faced with a patient with a fever and respiratory symptoms. It will probably become like flu in that the advice will be regular vaccinations for the most vulnerable members of the population (and anyone else that wants them). And it will also mean constant monitoring by the scientific community. So far, the only variations that have been identified seem not to have mutated in a way that would get past the current vaccines or immunity acquired by other means, but that could change at any time. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, and it may be closer than we thought . . . but don't go burning your mask just yet.


----------



## Alaskan

Bunnylady said:


> but don't go burning your mask just yet.


But what if I dropped it in the pig poo pile???    






Sorry... had to.


----------



## Bunnylady

Alaskan said:


> But what if I dropped it in the pig poo pile???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... had to.


*sigh* Alaskan, I will _not_ ask why you aren't socially distancing from pigs. 
(But I hope you at least washed your hands)


----------



## Alaskan

Bunnylady said:


> *sigh* Alaskan, I will _not_ ask why you aren't socially distancing from pigs.
> (But I hope you at least washed your hands)




Hoping Is a GOOD thing!


----------



## Bunnylady

Alaskan said:


> Hoping Is a GOOD thing!


I take it that's a "no."  

But seriously, Alaskan, I think you are wasting your time putting masks on pigs. The jury may still be out on whether pigs can catch Covid-19, but I daresay _most_ people aren't going to get close enough for it to matter.


----------



## Alaskan

Bunnylady said:


> I take it that's a "no."
> 
> But seriously, Alaskan, I think you are wasting your time putting masks on pigs. The jury may still be out on whether pigs can catch Covid-19, but I daresay _most_ people aren't going to get close enough for it to matter.


Except my piggies are ultra cute

How could you resist a snuggle?


----------



## animalmom

Better looking than some of the guys I dated in my misspent youth.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

animalmom said:


> Better looking than some of the guys I dated in my misspent youth.


Me too


----------



## Baymule

animalmom said:


> Better looking than some of the guys I dated in my misspent youth.


That is worded very well, you sure wouldn't want to insult the pig!


----------



## Beekissed

Loving ND long about now and wish WV would grow a set and follow suit!  









						WOW North Dakota is Standing for Freedom | This is incredible | By Benny Johnson | Facebook
					

562K views, 44K likes, 13K loves, 4.7K comments, 21K shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Benny Johnson: This is incredible




					fb.watch


----------



## farmerjan

@Beekissed at least your gov is standing up and using some common sense against some of the "biden appointees" for the cabinet positions...even as a democrat.... 
I sure hope that enough of the Senate members stand up and vote against the "Equality bill" that is proposed... it is scary, people need to read it.  It is not a leftist or rightist thing... it is beyond common sense and decency.


----------



## Simpleterrier

So my mom was in a store this week wearing a mask and was in the same isle as another woman and the lady started to scream at her for being to close even though they both had mask and we're over six feel apart. 

A manager grabbed another family member this week by the arm at a different store cause he didn't have a mask on. The manager ran up and grabbed his arm and escorted him out. So much for social distancing


----------



## Simpleterrier

People are losing their minds


----------



## Baymule

Simpleterrier said:


> People are losing their minds


Nah, they don't have a mind to lose.


----------



## Beekissed

Agreed...nothing to lose.


----------



## Beekissed

US doctors propose 'Vaccine Bill of Rights’ to protect citizens from forced shots - LifeSite
					

‘No one – not the government, employers, nor any individual – should maintain the authority to force anyone to get vaccinated, and a Vaccine Bill of Rights in your state will ensure that they don’t.‘




					www.lifesitenews.com


----------



## Beekissed

.


----------



## Simpleterrier

So again today my wife was in a store and heard a lady yelling at two young amish lady's that they didn't care about her health. Both of the amish had mask on so did the lady yelling.  Don't know more than that.

What gives the others the right to yell?

If you are scared stay home. Why are your rights better than mine?

I have the right to go to the store and have a mask on if u are worried or scared don't yell your covid breath on me.

We have created a group of scared monsters.

How u ask? By narrowing what people see. Right or left your phone and computer try to cater your search so u only see what u look up and closely related things.

So people have tunnel vision.

The people doing the yelling do believe they are the "HEROES" saving our world one blow up at a time.

If I am in a store and see it happening I really don't know what I will do. But when I go before the judge I'll tell them the stress made me do it. But I'm sure when I get before the finale Judge he might just slap me on the back and say sometimes u can't turn the other cheek.


----------



## Bunnylady

Simpleterrier said:


> What gives the others the right to yell?


Nothing. In fact, I believe in your state that would be considered harassment, maybe even intimidation, which are both crimes (since the victims of this particular verbal attack were Amish, it might even qualify as a hate crime). At bare minimum, it's disorderly conduct.

If masks are required in a place of business and you see someone not wearing one, your only legal option (besides simply leaving!) is to take it up with a manager, and let them deal with it.

I wonder if these self-righteous people were made aware of the fact that, if management_ did_ go so far as to call the police, _they_ would be the ones facing a court date, would it take a bit of the wind out of their sails? Nobody, but _nobody_, has the right to verbally assault other people, I don't care how right they think they are.


----------



## Beekissed

Hallelujah!!!!  Another state sees common sense!!!  Bay, you must be dancing for joy on this one! 









						Texas Governor Greg Abbott Ends Mandatory Mask Mandate: ‘Time To Open Texas 100%’ | The Daily Wire
					






					www.dailywire.com


----------



## Beekissed

Simpleterrier said:


> So again today my wife was in a store and heard a lady yelling at two young amish lady's that they didn't care about her health. Both of the amish had mask on so did the lady yelling.  Don't know more than that.
> 
> What gives the others the right to yell?
> 
> If you are scared stay home. Why are your rights better than mine?
> 
> I have the right to go to the store and have a mask on if u are worried or scared don't yell your covid breath on me.
> 
> We have created a group of scared monsters.
> 
> How u ask? By narrowing what people see. Right or left your phone and computer try to cater your search so u only see what u look up and closely related things.
> 
> So people have tunnel vision.
> 
> The people doing the yelling do believe they are the "HEROES" saving our world one blow up at a time.
> 
> If I am in a store and see it happening I really don't know what I will do. But when I go before the judge I'll tell them the stress made me do it. But I'm sure when I get before the finale Judge he might just slap me on the back and say sometimes u can't turn the other cheek.


I think I would have stepped into that situation.  I don't like a bully.  Folks are free to do what they do as long as they don't try to make others do what they do.   Pure selfishness to think the world is all about HER health.  

Recently went to Amish country to sell some lambs and I felt such joy all the time I was there...not a single Amish person had a mask on, the restaurant I went to had a sign on the door that warned people that the employees were not wearing masks and I entered that door with gladness!   What a wonderful thing to see people's faces again, to exchange smiles and kind words and facial expressions, to serve myself at a buffet and sit at a table that had real salt and pepper shakers...it felt like freedom, like I was living in the US once again and  not in communist China.


----------



## farmerjan

Heard a little snippet that there were some other states starting to relax some things.  GOD BLESS TEXAS.  And South Dakota is a wonderful example of common sense and caution but not trying to control people.... COMMON SENSE has been her byline......She will get voted back in as Govenor with how the state has done so well overall.  Breath of Fresh Air to listen to her


----------



## Baymule

The middle of the country is tired of the hysterical east and west coast "rules" for thee, but not for me, so called leaders. 

TEXAS IS OPEN FOR BUSINESS. 

By the way, today is Texas Independence Day. On this day in 1836, Texas declared her independence from Mexico. March 6, 1836, General Santa Anna stormed the Alamo after a 13 day siege. 

REMEMBER THE ALAMO


----------



## Baymule

Simpleterrier said:


> If I am in a store and see it happening I really don't know what I will do. But when I go before the judge I'll tell them the stress made me do it. But I'm sure when I get before the finale Judge he might just slap me on the back and say sometimes u can't turn the other cheek.


This.


----------



## Baymule

Biden slammed Texas and I quote “ The last thing we need is Neanderthal thinking.” 

This after letting in over 100 ILLEGAL ALIENS with Covid. 

I need a T-shirt with NEANDERTHAL on it.


----------



## Baymule

To be clear, this deplorable Neanderthal intends to wear a mask when in Walmart, grocery stores and crowded public places. I neither want Covid nor do I wish to spread it. I don’t care what anybody else does, I’ll do what I do and that includes respecting the signs posted on the doors of public places. I resent these elites with their noses stuck up so far in the air, that if they walked outside in a rainstorm, they’d drown. That’s what us deplorables refer to as “giving someone the high nose”.  The only time their high nose comes down out of the clouds is when they look down on us Neanderthals. We’re so danged stupid, it’s a wonder we even find food and use toilet paper.

Oh, and make that 108 ILLEGAL ALIENS with COVID in TEXAS. Foist these disease ridden illegal aliens on us, then call US Neanderthals? What I’m busting to spew out on that senile hand puppet dictator signing executive orders destroying jobs by the thousands isn’t printable on a family friendly forum.


----------



## farmerjan

It is a disgrace with the covid positive ILLEGALS...... There is no way that you could write a fake story this bad.  NEANDERTHALS is going to replace DEPLORABLES.......Oh wait, it's the deplorables that are spawning the neanderthals....


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> Oh, and make that 108 ILLEGAL ALIENS with COVID in TEXAS.


So, I'm confused. 

"A pandemic-related measure that allows the Border Patrol to expel people without an opportunity to seek asylum potentially leads some to try to evade authorities instead of surrendering, sometimes with fatal consequences. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention introduced expulsion powers nearly a year ago under Trump, and the Biden administration has signaled no plans to lift them anytime soon."

That^^ came from an article about 13 migrants that died in a crash of an overloaded SUV in California yesterday, where human smugglers dug up/tore down a section of the existing border fence to try to avoid the Border Patrol. Why are people risking their lives to get into California, if all they have to do is waltz into Texas and they get welcomed with open arms? Somethin' don't compute, here.


----------



## Baymule

You are right, something doesn’t compute here. 108 are positive for Covid and not being returned to their own country. Many are not even being tested.


----------



## Bunnylady

Crealcritter said:


> What doesn't compute? Which state would you consider safer to enter illegally?


I really don't understand what point you are trying to make; nobody is shooting at these people. It's the Border Patrol that they are trying to avoid in California, and they would be armed regardless of local handgun regulations.  

According to what I posted, the Border Patrol has the power to expel people regardless, and I would think that a positive Covid test would be ample justification. So, why is the Border Patrol releasing people in Brownsville, Texas, and why does Brownsville feel they are helpless to do anything about it? Is it possible that these people aren't actually "illegal," in the sense that they have some sort of paperwork allowing them to come into the country, and that's why they aren't getting sent back?


----------



## Baymule

The present administration is letting illegal aliens in. If it were up to Texas, they would go right back, but federal law by way of executive order is releasing them. And no, they don’t have paperwork to legalize their entry. I don’t see what is so confusing about this.  A certain political party is opening the borders. To top it off, the very day 108 covid positive illegal aliens were released into our communities, Texas gets called Neanderthals. Any further discussion on this will get too political and we aren’t supposed to do that.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

I had a Dr. Appointment today....when finally alone in the room with we started talking about covid,...I asked her how she made out with it, she said that athough she works with all kinds of patients,  it was her husband that brought it home to her but he never got it .   then I simply asked if it was worse than having a bad flu,"... "much much worse and I was really sick and missed fourteen days of work, then I had the  first vaccination with out any problems, but the second shot game me a golf ball lump, hurt like hell and I was as so sick that I missed another two days of work" ...She asked me if I was getting one....I said nope ..unless you can convince me of a really good reason..., I stay at home most always , wear a mask when I shop , and I don't  trust the rush it was created in.....so CONVICE ME  why I would  want to change my opinion  and  the covid vaccine.....the response was " YOUR A SMART WOMAN, ( big smile ) and said I am supposed to discuss it with my patients ..you made a good decision "....then I asked how long she thought masks will be required......"AT LEAST FOUR MORE years .."..
I. guess I'll get my sewing machine ready to make some funky fun  covid masks


----------



## Baymule

Masks for 4 more years?


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Baymule said:


> Masks for 4 more years?


My feelings  exactly......


----------



## Alaskan

Barf on 4 more years of masks...  

Interesting doctor report @B&B Happy goats


----------



## Mike CHS

Masks are pretty much for the same reason as the National Guard still being in DC


----------



## farmerjan

Speaking of all this carried way too far nonsense..... anyone see anything of the last installment of the covid relief stimulus?   I get my SS direct deposited around the middle of the month, so didn't pay much attention to the deposit pending notice on my bank account when checking it.... Then I went in to see what had cleared and saw a much larger balance than I expected.... my paycheck usually gets deposited on Friday's, every other week and this is the week so I went in to see what my paycheck was.... it depends on which of my farms have processed so is never them same and I've been doing this for 30 years so I just pull my statement from work and check off which farms processed by the cut off date for that paycheck.  But this was only Thursday and it never gets put in before a Friday and on Thursday I will see a pending deposit notice.  Anyway,  I  see where I got my SS deposit AND a 1400 deposit from the IRS Treasury dept..... so they are in a rush to get these stimulus checks out. 

Now, don't take this wrong..... I don't NEED this money to make it.... Yes it is a nice bonus.... but I don't have to have it to survive.  I would have gladly done without it if there had been some sense in the government and they did not get so insane with the money in that ridiculously over priced bill that was passed and that will actually do very little to actually help in the long run. 
But, it is what it is.  So, I have money I didn't figure into the budget for anything.  I am not sure of the status for paying taxes on this.  It will not affect my SS since I do  not make near enough extra income from my job to jeopardize  my SS in anyway... in fact, I am not sure that there is a limit on my earnings now....due to my age..... but no matter... I never make enough to have to give back any SS from high earnings.  

It will come in handy I am sure.  I may take part of it and go buy the recliner once I get the rest of everything moved here.  I have gotten all my CC's paid off, (except one that is 3.5%, so that is fine) that I was charging on with the moving and paying 2 "payments " with the mtg and rent payments, in order to have money available for the floor sanding and all sorts of other things.... and that one will be paid off fairly soon.   

Hope everyone gets their "fair share" since they are giving away money left and right to everything else.  There is talk now about increasing the taxes on businesses... which they say is NOT a  tax on the working people... but the businesses will just up the prices they charge for goods and services and the working man is the one paying them... it will not hurt the multi million dollar businesses, they will pass it on as business costs that get figured into the cost of their products.  So in the long run it is a tax on us... it just is not called that.  

Gas went up here again... 2.69 and MORE,  at different stations....


----------



## Alaskan

Yeah. .... it REALLY worries me.    Where this money is coming from.


----------



## Alaskan

Crealcritter said:


> That is a GREAT question... BUT... I better not give my opinion, since I'm beginning to like the place.


I feel ya!

Ditto!

That is why my post was so short.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

It's March and I'm listening to high school football announced on the local country station. It's March with football...
Gas was 2.73 to 2.75 at most convenience stores around home this morning. Its 2.85 at the Valero. I think that's Venezuelan oil. 
Hey, Dr. Pepper's 4 for 9 at the Royal Farms. They got good chicken and tater logs.


----------



## Baymule

At last, a KILLED VIRUS vaccine. This will be one to watch. But as always, what's in it?





__





						COVAXIN - India's First Indigenous Covid-19 Vaccine | Bharat Biotech
					

COVAXIN, India's first indigenous COVID vaccine is developed by the corona vaccine manufacturer Bharat Biotech. It is an inactivated COVID-19 vaccine and human trials are about to commence across India.




					www.bharatbiotech.com
				












						Covaxin: India approves two Covid vaccines for children under 12
					

Both Covaxin and Corbevax are already being administered to children above 12 years.



					www.bbc.com
				













						Covaxin - Is It Safe For You? Read To Know The Truth - PharmEasy Blog
					

Click to rate this post! [Total: 443 Average: 3.7] Covaxin – Is It Safe For You? Read To Know The Truth The vaccination drive in India is progressing with great momentum. However, some people are still puzzled if they should take a shot of it or not. Well, the skepticism is totally...




					pharmeasy.in


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Mike CHS

That video pretty much says it all.  Sort of like all of those medical field "conspiracy theorists" were saying a year ago.


----------



## farmerjan

Beekissed said:


>


Again, thank you @Beekissed  for more good open minded reporting.


----------



## Mini Horses

No shots here.  Wormed some goats a couple days ago...not without the usual,  some on me.   So we're all Covid safe.   😁

Other Covid affects would be the stimulus ck buying me more fence.    Thanks Uncle.


----------



## Bunnylady

Wow. There is bias practically _screaming_ from almost every sentence of that video; it reminds me of an example of "bad science" that was used when I was in college ("at the end of our study, we_ will show_ that blah, blah, blah . . ."). Somebody obviously checked their objectivity at the door on that one. At the very least, taking Nicaragua's official word for _anything_ is almost as bad as believing everything that comes out of China. 

For an example of a country that has done far better than even Nicaragua claims to have done, how about Australia:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/03/15/10-reasons-australias-covid-19-success-story/


For many months now, there has been a discussion about why you can't draw a clear comparison between restrictions and cases (California vs Florida being the favorite; they have had similar numbers in spite of having very different approaches). Here's an article from early February that talks about it
https://www.healthline.com/health-n...covid-19-case-rates-the-answer-is-complicated

One conclusion I have seen basically said that, if you give people a choice, you will get people choosing to do the right thing no matter what. If you try to force people to do something, there will always be people who do their dead level best to _not_ do what you want.  More or less, in a free society, people are gonna do what they darn well please, and your results will reflect _that_, rather than whatever the local rules are. Certainly, we have seen that here. Shortly after lockdown began here in NC, we had a nearby county that had one of the highest infection rates in the state, in spite of being mostly rural and having a relatively small population. The health care workers there said they knew why this was; all they had to do was look at who they had coming in for treatment. They had a certain population in the county that were engaging in large gatherings practically every weekend; most of the cases they were seeing had attended those gatherings (if memory serves, in one incident, 40-some cases were traced to a single birthday party). It's pretty hard to make a serious argument one way or the other on the effectiveness of any measure attempted when you have so many people flagrantly disregarding it. As the Op/Ed piece on Australia pointed out, compliance plays a big part in how well something works.


----------



## farmerjan

I have some friends in Australia... and the offiCial reported effeCts of the loCkdowns and suCh are a far Cry from what is talked about and done  behind the sCenes... and several of them are saying that what is getting reported on the "cConventional news" is a far Cry from some of what is going on.  
My c is not always working in the small case so may have some capital c's in here...

Have you seen the artiCle that is NOT being reported by "Conventional news" about the mother of 11 children in ChurCh in the midwest.... Catholic Church .... home schooling family with a farm..... not wearing masks and socially distanced from any other parishioners.... Priest had her ARRESTED in front of her Children... for not wearing the mask.  Yet she was socially distanced from everyone else in the church.   And the Priest was not wearing a mask and was closer to the parishioners during the service than she was.... 
Masking was pushed in the beginning if you were unable to socially distance at least 6 feet... the guidelines were an AND/OR situation.... now the priests are treating their own parishioners  like that.... do as I say, not as I do....

There are several countries in the African continent that have very low rates of "covid" and it is being attributed to their use of ivermectin for other causes....  there are several studies on the different uses of ivermectin.... 
But that is something that is for people to read with an open mind and to not take any one source as gospel or have a preconceived belief that one "side" is right.... period no questions asked. 

I am glad that I did not take at face value the countless doctors that said I should have the ankle fused... because that was the "conventional" approach..... and found the doctor that said, no, you do not have to have it fused, we can do this for you..... and I have had better than anyone expected results.  I kept searching and looking at other possibilities, and going against conventional thinking.....


----------



## Beekissed

Crealcritter said:


> Such a contentious subject this is...
> 
> All I know is Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, my Interceder to Almighty God.
> 
> BTW... I promise not to post inappropriate memes in this thread. 😂



It's a puzzling thing to me why it IS a contentious subject.  A person posts some information and another person gets defensive about the information, as if it's some kind of personal attack against them.  It's weird.  A person who is firm in their knowledge or belief about a certain subject or idea doesn't need to argue about it....they can let others believe that THEY want to believe and keep their own counsel.  

I don't feel the need to get all brody when someone states emphatically that millions have died of Covid when I don't believe that information, not even a little bit.  I just figure they have been misled in their information and that's too bad, but it's of no concern to me.  I post information here for people to absorb, to pass along or to take it or leave it, but not to inflame anyone.   That people get angry over it is their problem, but it really does little to increase knowledge about this topic.


----------



## caprines.n.me

Beekissed said:


> It's a puzzling thing to me why it IS a contentious subject. A person posts some information and another person gets defensive about the information, as if it's some kind of personal attack against them. It's weird. A person who is firm in their knowledge or belief about a certain subject or idea doesn't need to argue about it....they can let others believe that THEY want to believe and keep their own counsel.


 You seem to be very firm in your opinion and you post lots of articles to try and back up your opinion.  She has a right to her opinion, and she has a right to post it (just like you do) even if some don't like it.


----------



## Beekissed

caprines.n.me said:


> You seem to be very firm in your opinion and you post lots of articles to try and back up your opinion.  She has a right to her opinion, and she has a right to post it (just like you do) even if some don't like it.


And there's where you are wrong.  I find no reason to "back my opinion" as I've already formed it and no longer need to "back my opinion".  I don't need other people's opinions of what I post to either confirm nor deny what I've already come to believe.  I post articles to inform others of what I've found on the topic that make sense to me...whether they make sense to others means less than nothing to me, just thought others may find the same thing informative.   No need to argue over such information as it's not being offered to "back an opinion", which is why I'm not on here_ stating_ my opinion over and over.  

Not sure who "she" is, to whom you are referring?...but whomever she is, of course she has a right to post whatever she likes.  Wasn't aware that anyone had posted anything at all....could be someone I have blocked/ignored, so I wouldn't see their post.    I was answering a post by CC, which was obvious because I quoted his post.


----------



## Simpleterrier

I can't remember if I have asked this yet.

How will 2020 history be written?

Who's opinion will be in the history books?

Right know I am looking at everything at face value. If I don't see it with my own eyes I'm trying not to form an opinion that I voice.

On a positive note a restaurant near use just won in court against the health department for not mandating mask to be worn in their establishment.


----------



## caprines.n.me

Apologies if I misinterpreted.  I noticed that MR. CrealCritter had posted that the subject was contentious.  It appeared that he was responding to Ms.BunnyLady's post.  She was the "she" I referred to.

I do tend to have a strong sense of right and wrong that sometimes compels me to step in where I may not be wanted or needed, lol.  Hazard of the (previous) profession I suppose.  Even though I'm retired I sometimes tend to  forget.


----------



## Beekissed

Crealcritter said:


> Don't get me started on "conventional news" it's likely to get ugly, really quick.
> 
> I finally had to ask myself. How many times has this box lied to me? My answer was, many. Next question. Then why do you trust what comes out of this box? My answer was, I don't trust it at all.
> 
> So I unhooked it July 2020 and besides for gold rush I don't miss a thing about it. Was it hard to unhook the TV? Yes it was, very hard. I concluded I was addicted to "conventional news" but I'm happy to report, I'm now free from my addition.
> 
> I look back and think to myself of all the hours of my life wasted on total BS that came from that box and am amazed I let myself get sucked in like that. All those hours wasted...


CC, my Dad took TV out of the home back in the early 70s and I never had it in my home either, so my kids didn't have that inflicted upon them either.  Dad used to call it "the boob tube" and he was right on the money with that.   Other than seeing TV programming at other people's homes, in hotels or even at work, I've not watched TV since the 70s.  

Didn't miss a thing.      You are on the right track.


----------



## Baymule

My daughter teaches media in college. It is noteworthy that she and her husband do not allow constant TV. They subscribe to Hulu and select certain shows to watch, no commercials. When that show is over, TV goes off. She teaches a class on the brain numbing effects TV, video games, cell phones, etc have on young developing children.


----------



## Bunnylady

@Baymule Had you seen this article on the subject of the Covaxin vaccine? If Bharat Biotech has been partnered with Ocugen since December, it may not be all that long before we hear that Covaxin is coming soon to a clinic near you! (That's a joke for us old folks, for those who missed it).

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/bharat-biotech-covid-19-vaccine.html


----------



## Baymule

If I were to take a vaccine, it would be a killed virus, not RNA made with fetal cells from a 1973 aborted fetus. Gross. I found that and posted it for those who might want a vaccine, but not a cocktail of who knows what. As always, up for discussion.


----------



## Alaskan

What are everyone's thoughts about the Johnson and Johnson vaccine?


----------



## Alaskan

Bunnylady said:


> @Baymule Had you seen this article on the subject of the Covaxin vaccine? If Bharat Biotech has been partnered with Ocugen since December, it may not be all that long before we hear that Covaxin is coming soon to a clinic near you! (That's a joke for us old folks, for those who missed it).
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/bharat-biotech-covid-19-vaccine.html


I thought that vaccine sounded pretty good.


----------



## Baymule

Alaskan said:


> What are everyone's thoughts about the Johnson and Johnson vaccine?


Better than Moderna and Astra Zeneca, but I still wouldn’t take it.


----------



## Bunnylady

Baymule said:


> If I were to take a vaccine, it would be a killed virus, not RNA made with fetal cells from a 1973 aborted fetus. Gross. I found that and posted it for those who might want a vaccine, but not a cocktail of who knows what. As always, up for discussion.


Well, as we all know, viruses can't replicate on their own; they have to be grown in some kind of living tissue. While many vaccines are made with viruses grown in chicken eggs, the word is that SARS CoV-2 cannot be grown that way. Does anybody know what sort of cell line is used to produce Covaxin? I've done a little poking around, and so far, I haven't been able to find out.

However, I did find an article about yet another vaccine in development, which basically genetically engineered a whole bunch of Covid spike proteins onto the Newcastle Disease virus (which most definitely does grow in eggs). They are thinking it will be a real boon to poorer countries, since this type of technology is so cheap. No idea whether one of the potential side effects might be feather growth. 



Alaskan said:


> What are everyone's thoughts about the Johnson and Johnson vaccine?


I dunno. They recently held a clinic in Raleigh where 18 out of 2300 people who received the J & J vaccine  had adverse reactions; 4 were bad enough they were transported to a nearby hospital for evaluation. They were concerned enough to suspend vaccination for the rest of the day pending further guidance from the CDC. The CDC seemed to feel that the numbers and types of reactions were well within what one would normally expect to see with that many shots being given; because these sorts of clinics involve keeping the newly vaccinated patients on site for at least 15 minutes after the vaccine is given, those having reactions received prompt medical attention.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

There's a story circulating from yesterday, they shut down the Johnson and Johnson clinic somewhere in Colorado. 11 people had adverse reactions. I didn't read the whole story, can't do it anymore.
Somebody mentioned the  "boob tube". I remember Eb  from Green Acres saying it when I was kid.


----------



## promiseacres

Found out that my kids and myself were exposed Sunday. None of us are sick but staying home for the next few days and away from people just in case. Not too worried but the responsible thing is to not expose anyone else. Of course we've been potentially exposing people all week... but what do you do? I just found out this morning.


----------



## Beekissed

Grizzlyhackle said:


> There's a story circulating from yesterday, they shut down the Johnson and Johnson clinic somewhere in Colorado. 11 people had adverse reactions. I didn't read the whole story, can't do it anymore.
> Somebody mentioned the  "boob tube". I remember Eb  from Green Acres saying it when I was kid.











						CDC says no safety issues with J&J vaccine after NC clinic reports ‘adverse reactions’
					

Health officials said a North Carolina clinic has stopped giving out shots Thursday after several people had bad reactions to the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.




					www.wsoctv.com


----------



## Alaskan

promiseacres said:


> Found out that my kids and myself were exposed Sunday. None of us are sick but staying home for the next few days and away from people just in case. Not too worried but the responsible thing is to not expose anyone else. Of course we've been potentially exposing people all week... but what do you do? I just found out this morning.


Supposedly most people start to show symptoms day 5 or 6 after exposure.


----------



## Beekissed

Alaskan said:


> Supposedly most people start to show symptoms day 5 or 6 after exposure.


Yeah....like....death.  That's one of the symptoms.


----------



## caprines.n.me

promiseacres said:


> Found out that my kids and myself were exposed Sunday. None of us are sick but staying home for the next few days and away from people just in case. Not too worried but the responsible thing is to not expose anyone else. Of course we've been potentially exposing people all week... but what do you do? I just found out this morning.


So sorry to hear that.  Sounds like you're doing what you can.  Taking precautions not to expose anyone is the responsible and right thing to do.  Hope you breeze through with not so much as a symptom.


----------



## Bunnylady

promiseacres said:


> Found out that my kids and myself were exposed Sunday. None of us are sick but staying home for the next few days and away from people just in case. Not too worried but the responsible thing is to not expose anyone else. Of course we've been potentially exposing people all week... but what do you do? I just found out this morning.



That's the reason for the masks and social distancing, after all - "just in case" you could be shedding virus and don't know it.   As you said, now that you know you were exposed, the responsible thing to do is self quarantine (ugh!) Hope the time goes quickly and you all remain well!

One of my daughter's coworkers tested positive a few weeks back. The person wound up with a mild case and was back at work a couple of weeks later. She works at a vet's office, where they all wear masks and only deal with clients at curbside anyway, so they did temperature checks before entering the building for the next couple of weeks, and there were no additional cases.


----------



## Beekissed

Crealcritter said:


> Both the UK and USA have publicly available databases on line for the public viewing, if your curious.


I've seen them.....lots of death as a side effect of the various Covid vaccines.  As a nurse, I've never seen death as a side effect of any vaccine prior to this and I've given thousands of vaccines.


----------



## Bunnylady

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

"Over 167 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through April 5, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,794 reports of death (0.00167%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. *A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. *CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ut-vaccine-related-deaths-allergies-quicktake 


Officially, there haven't been_ any _deaths directly attributed to vaccines in the U.S. There seem to have been a few deaths associated with those mysterious blood clots in Europe; something that is being studied.

"Post hoc ergo propter hoc" is one of the commonest fallacies - simply because two events occur, one after the other, doesn't mean there's a connection between them. Our minds are programmed to look for patterns; we need to examine evidence carefully to be sure we aren't jumping to conclusions.


----------



## Marie2020

I was interested in reading some of the comments in this link


----------



## Baymule

@promiseacres I found many articles touting the success of using ivermectin for eliminating the Covid-19 virus and curing people of Covid. In the meantime, up your vitamin and mineral intake to boost your immunity.  Yes, I have my supply of horse wormer and I'd use that before I'd go into any hospital. I give it to my horses, pigs and sheep. If I have sense enough not to give a 1200 pound horse dose to a 150 pound sheep, then surely I can reduce the dosage for myself.  If that freaks anyone out, that's fine. You be you and I'll be me. I am willing to take my chances. 

Here are some links that tell of results in other countries that used ivermectin. India has used it at a cost of around $3 per person, Nigeria is using it for other diseases such as River Blindness so it wasn't a far reach for them to use ivermectin for Covid. 









						Ivermectin and the Virus
					

Guest Post by David Archibald The efficacy of a drug has not been proven until the journal Nature has run a hit piece attacking it. For ivermectin, that was on 20th October, 2020.  So many people i…



					www.theburningplatform.com
				












						Ivermectin for COVID-19: Worth a Shot?
					

Evidence base limited, including one withdrawn study with Surgisphere data




					www.medpagetoday.com
				









						Schemes or Protocols – Ivermectin for COVID-19
					






					covid19ivermectin.info
				




I like this one the best and we already take the vitamins and minerals to boost our immunity. No, we don't take 100,000 units of vitamin D, but we take it in reasonable daily doses, plus we are outside a lot in the sunshine.









						What To Take If You Have Covid-19
					

Many persons with Covid-19 find themselves at home, with relatively mild symptoms, and the doctor has not given them any medications. What should you do? What can you take? See the latest I-MASK+ P…




					covid.us.org
				




This article is from Nigeria.









						IVERMECTIN: The wonder anti-COVID-19 drug - The Nation Newspaper
					

If you are a regular reader of this column, you are most likely to believe that COVID-19 exists, infects, and kills people. But you may not




					thenationonlineng.net
				












						NIH Revises Treatment Guidelines for Ivermectin for the Treatment of COVID-19
					

NIH Revises Treatment Guidelines for Ivermectin for the Treatment of COVID-19 Ivermectin is Now a Therapeutic Option for Doctors & Prescribers




					www.newswise.com
				




If you ever had hair lice or treated your kids for hair lice, you used ivermectin. 









						Cheap hair lice drug may cut risk of COVID-19 death by 80 percent: study
					

Earlier studies have found similarly promising results.




					nypost.com


----------



## promiseacres

@Baymule, a good reminder. So far kids are perfectly fine, sent them out to play. I ran after feed but no contact (the good thing about going to a small feed store). I myself am not feeling great but have been fighting sinus/allergies since well before being exposed. So who knows. I would have to get very bad before I'd go to the dr at this time. Taking it easy, but doing what needs to be done.


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Beekissed said:


> CDC says no safety issues with J&J vaccine after NC clinic reports ‘adverse reactions’
> 
> 
> Health officials said a North Carolina clinic has stopped giving out shots Thursday after several people had bad reactions to the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wsoctv.com


I want to get one but it's that allergic reaction I keep hearing about. Is it watery eyes and runny nose or full on anaphylactic shock. When your whole body itches, your throat closes, you're a nurse you know what I'm saying. So easy for the government to say no problems. But that's not much comfort if you end up being one of the 18. Maryland has clinics for all groups now. Haven't got a clue or taken a moment to find out whose product they are using. DW got a single dose weeks ago and then didn't go back for the second round. Honestly I think she was afraid and I didn't push it. We'll be married 30 yrs on 4/20 and I've learned when to change the subject.


----------



## Bunnylady

Grizzlyhackle said:


> But that's not much comfort if you end up being one of the 18.


If you are talking about allergic reactions in reference to that article, it's more like "one of the 1," not 18 - only one person had an actual allergic reaction. The other 17 experienced things like dizziness, nausea, fainting; quite distressing, but not involving an immune response (which is what an allergic reaction is). Some people can have those sorts of reactions to the mere_ sight_ of a needle, so there is a need to differentiate between the two.

In the case of an actual allergic reaction, it can range from mild to a full-on anaphylactic response. Obviously, that's something everyone would rather avoid. Vaccines contain preservatives, etc, and since the same ones are used in many different vaccines, if you have ever had an allergic reaction to, say, a flu shot, it is recommended that you pass up the Covid shots, too.

There's always the chance of being that person who experiences their first-ever allergic reaction, so, whether it's at a doctor's office, a pharmacy, or a drive-up clinic, here in N.C, anyone who gets jabbed is required to stick around for a 15 minute observation period. While it's possible that a reaction can happen even days later, most of the bad ones happen within minutes of the shot being given. This way, there are medical resources available to respond right away, and medical personnel can evaluate and record the reaction so it gets added to the data base.



Grizzlyhackle said:


> Maryland has clinics for all groups now. Haven't got a clue or taken a moment to find out whose product they are using.



North Carolina is using all of the vaccines currently approved for use in the U.S. I haven't done a lot of digging, but Maryland is definitely using more than one. When you go to sign up, they will tell you which vaccine is being given at a particular vaccination event.


My daughter got her second Moderna shot yesterday. Like the first time, her arm is sore, other than that, she's not had much of a reaction. Several of her coworkers had their second a few days ago; some of them have experienced a low-grade fever in addition to the the sore arm (that was my 85-year-old father's experience as well).


----------



## Bunnylady

https://www.wect.com/2021/04/13/fda-cdc-recommend-pause-johnson-johnson-covid-vaccine/

I'd been waiting to hear this. From what I understand, this type of blood clot is normally such a rare occurrence, to even have it happening as a_ literally_ 1-in-a-million event is still noteworthy. As frustrating as it may be for those who were counting on having the  J & J vaccine available, it's best to be cautious until they can figure out why this is happening.

Carteret County has announced that they will stop offering Covid vaccinations at the end of this month. Though only 25% of the county population has been vaccinated, they aren't having enough people coming in to justify it. I guess the fearmongering and misinformation is still getting around better than all the assurances of people who actually know what they are talking about.


----------



## Mike CHS

Unfortunately there haven't been very many days in the lat few months where some "rare occurrence" came out that didn't come out in the testing.  I don't put a lot of faith in the assurances of people who supposedly know what they are talking about.


----------



## Beekissed

Mike CHS said:


> Unfortunately there haven't been very many days in the lat few months where some "rare occurrence" came out that didn't come out in the testing.  I don't put a lot of faith in the assurances of people who supposedly know what they are talking about.


Amen.  I'll trust God on this one and He told me to not get that vac.


----------



## Bunnylady

Mike CHS said:


> There haven't been very many days in the lat few months where some "rare occurrence" came out that didn't come out in the testing.



Well, they were very careful to go through all the steps in the trials, and get as much variability in their test groups as possible, so naturally, there wouldn't be many surprises. That is the whole reason for doing the trials, you know - making sure it's safe _and_ effective. In the119 days since the first vaccines became available to the public; there have been over 190 million people in the US that have been vaccinated.

Those who have expressed squeamishness about the possible contents of some of the current vaccines might find this interesting:

https://www.wect.com/2021/04/13/new-plant-based-covid-vaccine-being-tested-wilmington/



Crealcritter said:


> I try and keep and open mind on this topic


Good for you. I, too, am open-minded, though I bear in mind the advice not to be so open-minded that your brain falls out.   I will give anyone a fair hearing, but I am also capable of critical thinking, and I don't just look at _what_ is said, I also consider _how_ it is said and by whom. I fully embrace the idea that everyone has a right to make their own choices; my goal is to make sure that those are _informed_ choices,  choices based on _facts_, and not hysterical fearmongering or misinformation. 

(There's a saying, "ask 4 horsemen, and you'll get 5 opinions." Give me half a chance, and I'll give you so many different viewpoints, you won't know where you stand, let alone where I do.)


----------



## Beekissed

CCP Virus Variant Affects Vaccinated People More Than Unvaccinated People: Study
					

A study from Tel Aviv University found that a South African variant of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) ...




					www.theepochtimes.com


----------



## Bruce

Alaskan said:


> What are everyone's thoughts about the Johnson and Johnson vaccine?


What I keep hearing is that it is equally effective as the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines for the "primary goal" of keeping people out of the hospital or the morgue. On the other hand it is 66% effective in preventing a moderate or severe case whereas the Pfizer and Moderna mRNA based vaccines are 90% or more effective at preventing contracting the virus or only having a non symptomatic case. It is also always claimed that you shouldn't compare the J&J to the mRNA based vaccines since it was developed after the variants started showing up.

To me that sounds like J&J is the ugly stepsister in this beauty pageant. Glad I got the Pfizer, I'd rather not get sick than only get less sick than I would if I were not vaccinated. While the J&J is as effective as the annual flu vaccine, to me that pales in comparison to what else is available. There are currently no better options for the flu vaccine.  Other than areas where they don't have the freezer capability for the mRNA based vaccines, I see no reason for the J&J to be offered.



Bunnylady said:


> Carteret County has announced that they will stop offering Covid vaccinations at the end of this month. Though only 25% of the county population has been vaccinated, they aren't having enough people coming in to justify it.


That is very unfortunate.


----------



## Bruce

What does that have to do with Covid?


----------



## Bruce

True, didn't look like anything Covid related at the beginning soI closed it. And now I've watched it and it still isn't really about Covid.


----------



## Beekissed

Interesting article....









						EXCLUSIVE - Former Pfizer VP: ‘Your government is lying to you in a way that could lead to your death.’ - LifeSite
					

‘Look out the window, and think, “why is my government lying to me about something so fundamental?” Because, I think the answer is, they are going to kill you using this method. They’re going to kill you and your family.’




					www.lifesitenews.com


----------



## member 21230

This will be my last post on this site, I wanted to leave you with something helpful.

If you need help with Covid-19 (info or medical or legal) consider...









						America's Frontline Doctors
					

Meet America's Premier Civil Liberties Organization. America's Frontline Doctors wants to Fight for Your Medical Freedom.




					www.americasfrontlinedoctors.org
				




Jesus is Lord and Christ 🙏💕🇺🇸


----------



## Beekissed

The horrifying truth from public testimony....anyone reading these accounts who feels like it's all merely coincidental have to be delusional in their thinking. 



			https://www.facebook.com/CVVTestimonies


----------



## Beekissed

Can you tell me if this sounds abusive? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




My friend's husband won’t let her visit any friends or family. He has made her stop all contact with them unless it’s on the phone or computer. He reads and censors her comments on social media.
He makes her feel like she's going crazy for thinking he’s controlling, and that she is being ungrateful. (After all, he’s only doing this because of how much he cares about her.)
He doesn’t want her going to the gym anymore, so she doesn’t go. He also doesn’t let her go to work anymore (he told her to only rely on him for income and that he will take care of her).
She's not really allowed to go out anymore, unless it’s for necessities, and when she does, he makes sure to have people guilt trip her about it and shame her for it.
He wants her to have this medical procedure done and tells her that if she does it, he will allow her more freedoms.
He constantly says he's only doing all of this because he cares... he is just doing it for her own good.
Oh wait....did I say husband? I meant the government.
My bad.
You have been conditioned to be outraged if another person did this to their spouse, but be passive & compliant when it comes to our government.
Please wake up!


----------



## farmerjan

THANK YOU !!!!!!  AMEN to you @Beekissed


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Been working second shift, Friday morning get called and told shifts been cancelled because somebody is out with symptoms and waiting for the test results. I don't have much contact with him so I went in half of day shift got paid for 8hrs. Funny how this happens same week that Maryland eases up on some of the restrictions.


----------



## Beekissed

Highly cited COVID doctor comes to stunning conclusion: Gov’t ‘scrubbing unprecedented numbers’ of injection-related deaths
					

3,544 deaths and 12,619 serious injuries reported between Dec. 14, 2020 and April 23, 2021 One of the world’s most prominent medical doctors with expertise in treating COVID-19 has gone on th…




					leohohmann.com


----------



## Baymule

I read this out loud to my husband, backing up why we are not getting the shot. Thanks for posting this.


----------



## farmerjan

I watched and listened to both the videos in that article you posted @Beekissed ,  Thank you.  And I liked that the dr in Canada who did the interview, that it was put on Rumble so no chance of the thought police taking off youtube.  Don't know how you find all these things but I am VERY GRATEFUL that you do.


----------



## Beekissed

farmerjan said:


> I watched and listened to both the videos in that article you posted @Beekissed ,  Thank you.  And I liked that the dr in Canada who did the interview, that it was put on Rumble so no chance of the thought police taking off youtube.  Don't know how you find all these things but I am VERY GRATEFUL that you do.


I belong to a group or two on FB in my state that are foursquare against masks, the lies surrounding the whole corona debacle, and, of course, this complete hoax of a deadly vaccine.  They post a lot of good info, as do the ladies on my own forum, who also feel this way.  Lots of people out there who are aware, are sharing information and will not be taking this or any vaccine for this false flag of a virus....which is just simply flu A and B.


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Beekissed

Even a baby understands....a person needs to breathe!


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Simpleterrier

On June 2nd Ohio becomes a free state. Not that it changes what I've been doing


----------



## Baymule

Simpleterrier said:


> On June 2nd Ohio becomes a free state. Not that it changes what I've been doing


Wasn’t it already a free state?


----------



## farmerjan

Did anyone hear where the CDC and WHO or what ever one of the "initial authorities" group said..... that people can go unmasked in small and large groups inside or outside?????  Guess Fauci is going to have to shut up now.  VA is supposed to be completely "free" as of July 4th.... 
Not that it is going to change much of what I have been doing for the past 18 months either..... except that I will not even bother to answer the "greeter" at Walmart when I walk in without my mask.... 
Just hope that my PT guy gets off the kick.....

Too much for the country to worry about now with the mess in Israel  getting going.... and the increase in the border problems.... OH WAIT, did I hear that they are going to start building the wall again ??????


----------



## Baymule

They sure are keeping it quiet, but I heard that about the wall too. I have nothing good to say about the present administration so I’ll say nothing more. It seems that the truth rattles people and gets them riled up.


----------



## farmerjan

And I also heard that the energy sec or someone of those big wigs....ADMITTED that fuel going through the pipelines is the MOST ECONOMICAL AND ECOLOGICALLY  SAFE way to transport fuel..... better than trucks or rail...... and that they need to get to the bottom of this and get more safeguards in place due to the paying of the "blackmail" money by the Colonial Pipeline co. to get the computer system back up and running.


----------



## Simpleterrier

Nope we were a masked and social distancing state with other rules that I didn't pay much attention. The governors power was getting removed in June so to save face he is saying it will be open even though he power is being removed


----------



## HomesteaderWife

Can't believe this thread is still going. Wow! Currently mainly affecting work a bit still


----------



## Beekissed

This chart shows death from vaccines.
*********************
Jean Marc Benoit MD

@JeanmarcBenoit
· Apr 1
Deaths in Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), since its start in 1990. 2021 is off the charts https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datar ... 5952580BAF…


----------



## Alaskan

Beekissed said:


> View attachment 85056
> This chart shows death from vaccines.
> *********************
> Jean Marc Benoit MD
> 
> @JeanmarcBenoit
> · Apr 1
> Deaths in Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), since its start in 1990. 2021 is off the charts https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datar ... 5952580BAF…


But the info that the pro vaccine people are reading says that safety is great.



It is really sad.


----------



## Beekissed

Makes me want to give some Mexico towns a huge hug!!!!!  









						Governments Around The World Offer Extravagant Bribes In Desperate Effort To Increase COVID Vaccine Uptake - Activist Post
					

Governments are increasingly turning to bribes for those who submit their body and mind to the experimental medical treatment.




					www.activistpost.com


----------



## Mike CHS

I don't have a link but I read a bit put out by the CDC where they said the actual deaths cause by COVID was a fraction of what was previously reported.


----------



## farmerjan

Mike CHS said:


> I don't have a link but I read a bit put out by the CDC where they said the actual deaths cause by COVID was a fraction of what was previously reported.


Yeah, they are downplaying it after the official website that @Beekissed  referenced had the reports of reactions/deaths in comparison to deaths from other vaccines studied over the last 30 years....

And don't forget, this "vaccine" is still not fully approved by the FDA yet because it has not met the requirements... it has been approved only under the guise of the Federal Emergency Act or whatever the official title is....  
Got the book "I Do Not Consent"  by Simone Gold of the "America's Frontline Doctor's"  group;  came today.  Have not had time to read  but the first few pages.  Since there are over 58,000 doctors and researchers that signed the Great Barrington Letter, as well as the increasing number of doctors that have joined the AFD group.... seems like a real no brainer for me....  Got another book by Dr Mercola, and a co-author also to read on the "Truth about Covid - 19 "  and some other reading  by an Alex Berenson.... figured I better get them before they are banned like good ole Dr Zeus.....


----------



## farmerjan

So if the actual deaths caused by "covid", are a "FRACTION" of what was previously reported.... WHY IN THE WORLD, are the gov't officials still pushing the vaccines.... and did anyone hear the latest that good ole Joe had to say....About.... if you don't get the vaccine you will have to pay the price..... SORRIEST POS there ever was for a president.....
CURRENT numbers of deaths say that less than .2 % die from it.... 99.8+% rate of recovery.... so if the numbers of deaths goes down then that means there is a greater chance of surviving and recovering from it.... 
BETTER CHANCE to get and recover from Covid than the FLU.......


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Beekissed




----------



## OneFineAcre

I've had the vaccine.  My mom and stepfather have had it, they are in late 70's.  My dad and his wife had their vaccine scheduled but got covid before they could get it.  My dad developed blood clots in his lungs from it, but I think he's going to be Ok.  Maurine's dad is 91 and he has had the vaccine, but her mom broke her hip before christmas and was in and out of rehab and couldn't get it for some reason.

Maurine and my daughter Rachel have not had it yet.  Maurine is resistant and Rachel just needs someone to take her.  Rachel's boyfriend had covid and his sister has it now.

I've read a lot of arguments back and forth about it.  I wanted to get the vaccine as soon as I could.   I had the flu in Sept 2018 and was really, really sick.  That's when I quit smoking  

At this point, there is a vaccine if people want it so we need to get back to normal.  Everything needs to open up and the mandates need to end.

Folks that don't want the vaccine can take their chances or stay at home or wear a mask or whatever,   It's not my concern what other people do.   Covid isn't going to go away completely.  I guarantee cases will start to go back up in the fall.


----------



## OneFineAcre

I think I mentioned on here that we took Rachel out of school because the remote learning wasn't working.  She wasn't a great student before, and she was really struggling.

She worked most of last year at my friends coffee shop/deli about 25 hours per week.

We took her last August and enrolled her in the adult education program at a nearby community college, but at that point they were still all remote, so she didn't make much progress.

But early this year she got serious about it and she just passed her last exam to get her high school equivalency diploma (they used to call it a GED)

So, now she is actually finished high school a year early.  She is going to enroll as a freshman at the same community college she completed her high school equivalency.  Since she is a year early I think she will just go part time.  

I'm very proud of her for taking a bad situation and turining it into a positive.


----------



## Baymule

@OneineAcre 

That’s great about Rachel. You have good reason to be proud of her. Encourage her to use this year to get a jump start on college, she could get a degree and on to the next thing in her life.

We think Covid ran through our family in the very early months before it was recognized as a pandemic. Personally I don’t want the vaccine. If there was a killed virus vaccine I would take it. India has come up with one, but needs it for her own people and doesn’t look to be doing a very good job of it.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Like I said, it's none of my business what other people do.   I have no interest in trying to convince people either way.

I know some people try to make it their business on both sides of the issue.

One thing I forgot to mention is that one of my co-workers died from it.  We've been working remotely but back at the office we worked in the same area.  He had just become a grand-father for the first time.  It was very sad.

But as far as I'm concerned, we need to get back to normal.  There is a vaccine.  Take it if you want to.  Don't take it if you don't want to.  Stay at home if you want to, wear a mask if you want to, don't wear one if you want to.

Covid will continue to circulate until people either get the immunity from a vaccine, or from having covid.  People will also continue dying from it, but thankfully fewer will.


----------



## farmerjan

@OneFineAcre  thank you for your thoughts.  Basically I agree, it is up to the individual.  What I have been tired of is the ones that keep saying-implying-insinuating that those of us that don't want to take it... or those of us that have had it and have NATURAL immunities from the previous infection..... are somehow WRONG, STUPID, UNCARING, DISRESPECTFUL  of other people.  
You are entirely right, covid/corona virus will continue to circulate.... it is no different than the flu in that respect.... there will continue to be variants, there will continue to be infections, there will sadly continue to be deaths.  The losses will be less, the infected will be fewer.... but it will always be there.  
We have corona virus in cattle.  Have had calves over the years with it.  Have had lots of exposure to it.  I have a healthy immune system, seldom get much and when I do it is like a 24 hr thing because my body goes to work and fights it off.  If I have anti-bodies to it, then don't feel that I should have to take a vaccine for it.  I am covered.  
If you have been vaccinated, then you are at no risk from me whether I have been vaccinated or had natural immunity, or have had no exposure.  If I have it, the whole idea of you getting it from me is small to none.... that is the whole idea of YOU getting the vaccine.  So, I totally agree.... you do what you want, and leave me to do what I want.  

Thank you for your straight forward simple statements.


----------



## Baymule

Amen to that. Two sensible points of view with no squabbling, how refreshing. Thanks to both of you for presenting your views in a calm logical manner.


----------



## Beekissed

America's Frontline Doctors files motion for temporary restraining order against use of COVID vaccine in children - America's Frontline Doctors
					

America's Frontline Doctors (AFLDS) today filed a motion in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Alabama requesting a temporary restraining order against the emergency use authorization (EUA) permitting using the COVID-19 vaccines in children under the age of 16, and that no...




					www.americasfrontlinedoctors.org
				




AFLDS Founder *Dr. Simone Gold* spoke about the reasons for filing the motion: "We doctors are pro-vaccine, but this is not a vaccine," she said. "This is an experimental biological agent whose harms are well-documented (although suppressed and censored) and growing rapidly, and we will not support using America’s children as guinea pigs."

She continued: "We insist that the EUA not be relinquished prematurely; certainly not before trials are complete - October 31, 2022 for Moderna and April 27, 2023 for Pfizer. We are shocked at the mere discussion of this, and will not be silent while Americans are used as guinea pigs for a virus with survivability of 99.8% globally and 99.97% under age 70.

"Under age 20 it is 99.997% - 'statistical zero'.


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Beekissed

Dr. Sherri Tenpenny Explains Why Covid Injection ‘Shedding’ is So Concerning
					

In part 2 of my amazing interview with Dr. Sherri Tenpenny (watch part 1 here), we discussed "shedding." As she's




					noqreport.com


----------



## CLSranch

farmerjan said:


> And I also heard that the energy sec or someone of those big wigs....ADMITTED that fuel going through the pipelines is the MOST ECONOMICAL AND ECOLOGICALLY SAFE way to transport fuel..... better than trucks or rail.


It cost 3X more to not use the pipeline. Who gets the $$$ for the pipeline and who gets $$$ for rail car and/or truck. That can pretty much sum it all up. It helps out Biden's friends and you pay more taxes on the same amount of fuel at an extra dollar a gallon. Lose Lose for us Win Win for them.   
  And yes it's been proven to be safer for a long time. Before the big sha bang about it running through the .... That had an existing pipeline next to where the new one was supposed to go. That was another look at this hand while.
 Kinda like raisin the min wage.


----------



## SassyLegacy

Even though COVID hasn’t been fun and has been stressful, it has let me think of who I want to be and what I want to do with my life. I’ve also learned more about myself through this. COVID hasn’t affected me much, except for my social life. I found out who my true friends are and who aren’t. I’ve learned that I love my home and family more than I thought I did and that I always need them no matter what.


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## River Buffaloes

I am glad that the plague is dissipating in the United States. I wish we had wise politicians and public like you do.


----------



## messybun

Let me just say to the young ladies on here, be super careful if you’re unvaccinated and are around women who were. They’re seeing that the unvaccinated woman will start menstruating or egg dumping when in contact with a vaccinated woman.


----------



## farmerjan

Beekissed said:


> View attachment 85307


 YES     ontop of the fact that, that man is just OMG......
What's that song by Barbara Mandrell, .... he can put his shoes under my bed anytime.....


----------



## Beekissed

farmerjan said:


> YES     ontop of the fact that, that man is just OMG......
> What's that song by Barbara Mandrell, .... he can put his shoes under my bed anytime.....


He's always been my favorite actor to watch and listen to.  No voice like that in all the world.


----------



## River Buffaloes

farmerjan said:


> YES     ontop of the fact that, that man is just OMG......
> What's that song by Barbara Mandrell, .... he can put his shoes under my bed anytime.....



Since that lady(couldn't remember her name) has dropped out, you have a good shot of electing a Republican governor in Virginia. Unless the Republicans screw themselves over. I understand that it must be difficult for you to live in the commonwealth since the current governor is a bumbling buffoon. Choose wisely in the primary.


----------



## farmerjan

The Republican nominee is not my first choice.... I would have preferred Pete Snyder over the one they chose....Glen Youngkin.  I think that he got it due to Ted Cruz from Tx coming up and doing a little campaigning... but he is a businessman although does way too much business dealings with China for my taste.  Still he is so much better than Terry Mcauliffe that they are pushing.... Any Republican will be better than the last couple of Democrats.... but we are dealing with all the Washington DC liberals and cities like Richmond and Charlottesville that are getting more and more liberal, big gov't will solve everything because so many WORK  in gov't jobs.....  I think the female rep was Amanda Chase????  She is a little way right and could have lost some of the more central minded.... I think that is why it went to Youngkin also... he is not as hard nosed as Pete Snyder.... and he has distanced himself a little from Trump.... and that is probably what it is going to take here in this state that is so left leaning now.


----------



## Beekissed

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10159672758557313
			




What a surprise...  

In essence, it was a news story about FactCheckersdot.org~who police information about the vaccines on FB~ and who funds them.....Johnson and Johnson funds them.  What a surprise....not.  Nothing like having the fox in the hen house.  And, of course, that video didn't last long enough to even share it.


----------



## Simpleterrier

@farmerjan  Prancer worst movie ever. No one can watch that movie and not hope to be on the losing side of any gun battle in any western movie. And I'm pretty sure your guy stared in it


----------



## farmerjan

Are you talking "prancer", about the reindeer.  movie?  Seems to me that I have seen it but it is not in my extensive dvd collection.  Maybe I remember if from my mothers HUGE vcr  collection that she had for the grandchildren.  But I think not the movie you are referring to since there was no gun battles in that one I am sure.


----------



## Beekissed




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## Beekissed




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## Beekissed

This was on FB and the IFC didn't dispute it, so must be accurate....


----------



## farmerjan

I can believe it.... Yet tonight talked to some friends, and we rent the parents pasture which they have a house they come up to stay (my nurse cow pasture) and they are all so happy about having had the shots.....the parents and the daughter and husband.... the son is a doctor and they are so dead set that everyone should have this "vaccine"......


----------



## CLSranch

They have a new commercial on the radio here. It's saying kids here's your pat on the back for telling all your cousins and friends 12 and up that getting the vax can 100% reduce risk off death and hospitalizations. Chaps my as$ listening to them lying to the kids and guilt them into guilt other into it.
 As of day one of this BS kids had a 100% chance of not having to worry about dying or getting hospitalized with OUT being vaxed. And now we have to worry about the 95% chance of them being hospitalized later for no apparant reason. Because like the other vax's of course this won't be blamed for all the problems later.


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm not sure if this is one already posted or not but it is a good listen.  Of course he will get blown off also.









						I would love to see this dude debate Fauci…
					

!function(r,u,m,b,l,e){r._Rumble=b,r[b]||(r[b]=function(){(r[b]._=r[b]._||[]).push(arguments);if(r[b]._.length==1){l=u.createElement(m),e=u.getElementsByTagName(m)[0],l.async=1,l.src=” docume…




					citizenfreepress.com


----------



## CLSranch

Mike CHS said:


> I'm not sure if this is one already posted or not but it is a good listen.  Of course he will get blown off also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to see this dude debate Fauci…
> 
> 
> !function(r,u,m,b,l,e){r._Rumble=b,r[b]||(r[b]=function(){(r[b]._=r[b]._||[]).push(arguments);if(r[b]._.length==1){l=u.createElement(m),e=u.getElementsByTagName(m)[0],l.async=1,l.src=” docume…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> citizenfreepress.com


That's the kind of stuff that should be all over the news instead of, oh no we'll never go back to normal without the vax.


----------



## Beekissed

Reposting this post from a sister forum....too good not to share.  

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/05/blue_state_blue_mask_blues.html

*@TexasLisa*:  These are the paragraphs I found interesting:

In that April article I wrote about masks, I talked about those ubiquitous blue masks from China -- the ones everyone wears and sticks on their kids and toddlers -- containing graphene. I read that Canada had rejected a shipment of those masks. Because graphene flakes microscopically, it’s terrible for your lungs. I confirmed this with my chemist friend. It causes a similar reaction to asbestos in the lungs.

After I wrote about it, I mentioned that fact to a lot of people, most of whom shrugged their shoulders and just went about their business. At a certain point, I realized I could shout it from the rafters and nobody would care. They can’t see COVID, so it makes them illogically fearful. They can’t see graphene, so they’ll trust the government to do what’s right, and ignore science once again.

I just read a newly published article on graphene in masks. It says that, on April 2, 2021, Health Canada, a department of the Canadian government responsible for national health policy, issued an advisory, warning people not to “use face masks labelled to contain graphene or biomass graphene.” Then, the article takes it a step further. It posits that including graphene in masks is part of an insidious plot to sicken us and blame it on COVID. The logic is there but the proof that this theory is true seems lacking. But that logic might just explain why, when Canada has been vocal in warning about these masks, the USA, the CDC, and WHO haven’t bothered to do so.

When graphene gets into the lungs, it creates a set of symptoms similar to a COVID infection. With the over-sensitive PCR test, a false-positive result is common. So, you have the perfect way to keep the pressure on the public. Make them sick and perpetuate the Munchausen by government proxy syndrome I wrote about in January. Politically, it makes perfect sense.


----------



## Beekissed

__





						New peer reviewed study on COVID-19 vaccines suggests why heart inflammation, blood clots and other dangerous side effects occur - ON Point 640 Toronto
					

Alex talks with Dr. Byram Bridle, an Associate Professor on Viral Immunology at the University of Guelph about new peer-reviewed studies that suggests there may be a reason side effects such as heart inflammation, VITT, and other serious issues may occur in some who have been vaccinated.   Let's...




					omny.fm


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Beekissed

Everyone needs to show this vid to every employer, particularly those employers in medical facilities.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10157773303252669


----------



## farmerjan

Interesting article from another forum I frequent...
www.lewrockwell.com  Article name The Unthinkable:  Culling the Population to balance the books.....

Some other thought provoking articles.....especially things about the increased risk of heart inflamation in teens getting the vacs.....


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Beekissed

__





						Instagram
					






					www.instagram.com


----------



## Beekissed

Unread post44 minutes ago#1323
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/06/a_massive_surge_in_covid_vaccine_deaths.html

June 16, 2021

*A massive surge in COVID vaccine deaths*

By Antonio R. Chaves

A month ago, Tucker Carlson raised concerns over the unusual number of deaths associated with the COVID vaccines.  Prominent "fact-checkers" immediately scrambled to discredit these concerns as "misleading" and "lacking in context."  FactCheck.org even went on to say, "it's wrong to suggest that reported deaths in the VAERS System database were all caused by vaccines," but Tucker Carlson never made this claim.

The news site Revolver provided context with a graph that showed an astonishing 3,000% spike in vaccine-related deaths.  Unfortunately, the article did not provide a link to the source, and the "Open VAERS" website is cumbersome to navigate.  Fortunately the U.K.-based Daily Exposé provided a direct link to the CDC's interactive website, so I am forever in its debt.  I was so impressed with the website that I prepared a three-minute instructional video.  Share this video with your doctor.
Based on the CDC's data, reports of vaccine-related deaths and permanent disabilities have gone up 3,300% and 850% in 2021 (Graph 1).  This is even higher than the spike that Revolver posted ten days prior to my query.  We are currently only halfway through 2021, so this disparity may double by December.






Graph 1: Data compiled from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
Some will dismiss this pattern is a "statistical artifact" due to vaccination of older people who were already closer to death.  But when the sample is limited to people under 40, their reported death and permanent disability rates surged 3,300% and 1,200%, respectively (Graph 2).





Graph 2: Data compiled from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
Let that sink in: these vaccines appear to be killing and disabling large numbers of people who are in their prime — the very same people who are least likely to die of COVID.


FactCheck.org points out that "not all of these reports are verified."  But this is grabbing at straws because only a fool would dismiss a 1,000–3,000% spike in vaccine-related events as a massive surge in "coincidence" or false reporting.


The 2:07 point of the instructional video shows a 2,600% surge in deaths occurring on the day of vaccination.  The chart representing this data appears at the 2:30 point.  How many "coincidences" occur on the day of vaccination?


Most vaccine deaths happened within the first two weeks, but a significant number of them occurred two months later (Graph 3).  Perhaps more of these later deaths are "coincidence," but this graph provides only the time of death, not the process.  How many of these victims proceeded to suffer a slow, lingering death shortly after being vaccinated?





Graph 3: Data compiled from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.

As you may well know, none of the COVID-19 vaccines is FDA-approved, and according to U.S. Code 360bbb, "expanded access to unapproved therapies" requires a complete lack of "comparable or satisfactory alternative(s)."  In other words, the presences of safe alternatives renders "emergency use authorization" of the COVID vaccines null and void.


The powers that be know they cannot forever suppress the truth about safe alternative therapies like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.  This explains their increasingly frantic efforts to get more people vaccinated.  How do these people sleep at night?

In the powerful closing scene from the 1961 classic Judgement at Nuremberg, repentant war criminal Ernst Janning confided to Judge Haywood, "Those people...those millions of people...I never knew it would come to that."  The judge chillingly responded, "Herr Janning, this happened the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent."


All physicians participating in this evil charade are no better than Ernst Janning.  They cannot credibly plead ignorance because they chose to look the other way when the truth was in plain sight.


----------



## OneFineAcre

Beekissed said:


> Unread post44 minutes ago#1323
> https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2021/06/a_massive_surge_in_covid_vaccine_deaths.html
> 
> June 16, 2021
> 
> *A massive surge in COVID vaccine deaths*
> 
> By Antonio R. Chaves
> 
> A month ago, Tucker Carlson raised concerns over the unusual number of deaths associated with the COVID vaccines.  Prominent "fact-checkers" immediately scrambled to discredit these concerns as "misleading" and "lacking in context."  FactCheck.org even went on to say, "it's wrong to suggest that reported deaths in the VAERS System database were all caused by vaccines," but Tucker Carlson never made this claim.
> 
> The news site Revolver provided context with a graph that showed an astonishing 3,000% spike in vaccine-related deaths.  Unfortunately, the article did not provide a link to the source, and the "Open VAERS" website is cumbersome to navigate.  Fortunately the U.K.-based Daily Exposé provided a direct link to the CDC's interactive website, so I am forever in its debt.  I was so impressed with the website that I prepared a three-minute instructional video.  Share this video with your doctor.
> Based on the CDC's data, reports of vaccine-related deaths and permanent disabilities have gone up 3,300% and 850% in 2021 (Graph 1).  This is even higher than the spike that Revolver posted ten days prior to my query.  We are currently only halfway through 2021, so this disparity may double by December.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graph 1: Data compiled from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
> Some will dismiss this pattern is a "statistical artifact" due to vaccination of older people who were already closer to death.  But when the sample is limited to people under 40, their reported death and permanent disability rates surged 3,300% and 1,200%, respectively (Graph 2).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graph 2: Data compiled from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
> Let that sink in: these vaccines appear to be killing and disabling large numbers of people who are in their prime — the very same people who are least likely to die of COVID.
> 
> 
> FactCheck.org points out that "not all of these reports are verified."  But this is grabbing at straws because only a fool would dismiss a 1,000–3,000% spike in vaccine-related events as a massive surge in "coincidence" or false reporting.
> 
> 
> The 2:07 point of the instructional video shows a 2,600% surge in deaths occurring on the day of vaccination.  The chart representing this data appears at the 2:30 point.  How many "coincidences" occur on the day of vaccination?
> 
> 
> Most vaccine deaths happened within the first two weeks, but a significant number of them occurred two months later (Graph 3).  Perhaps more of these later deaths are "coincidence," but this graph provides only the time of death, not the process.  How many of these victims proceeded to suffer a slow, lingering death shortly after being vaccinated?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graph 3: Data compiled from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System.
> 
> As you may well know, none of the COVID-19 vaccines is FDA-approved, and according to U.S. Code 360bbb, "expanded access to unapproved therapies" requires a complete lack of "comparable or satisfactory alternative(s)."  In other words, the presences of safe alternatives renders "emergency use authorization" of the COVID vaccines null and void.
> 
> 
> The powers that be know they cannot forever suppress the truth about safe alternative therapies like ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine.  This explains their increasingly frantic efforts to get more people vaccinated.  How do these people sleep at night?
> 
> In the powerful closing scene from the 1961 classic Judgement at Nuremberg, repentant war criminal Ernst Janning confided to Judge Haywood, "Those people...those millions of people...I never knew it would come to that."  The judge chillingly responded, "Herr Janning, this happened the first time you sentenced a man to death you knew to be innocent."
> 
> 
> All physicians participating in this evil charade are no better than Ernst Janning.  They cannot credibly plead ignorance because they chose to look the other way when the truth was in plain sight.



I think you've made it pretty clear you will not be taking the vaccine.

You seem more than a little obsessed with the subject.


----------



## Alaskan

OneFineAcre said:


> I think you've made it pretty clear you will not be taking the vaccine.
> 
> You seem more than a little obsessed with the subject.


I thought she was just trying to share info as it comes up.


----------



## Beekissed

Alaskan said:


> I thought she was just trying to share info as it comes up.


Yep...I'll continue to do so.  Truth is to be shared when it becomes available.  Those who don't like the truth are free to pass it by or put me on ignore.  It's just that simple.  Doesn't have be any drama attached to it.


----------



## Simpleterrier

Here's an interesting thing. A guy from work just got back from Honduras and down there you have to sanitize your wheels on your vehicle every time you move it. Stop at a store sanitize move the car one block down sanitize. Also when u go in a store you have to walk threw a foot bath.


----------



## Baymule

Simpleterrier said:


> Here's an interesting thing. A guy from work just got back from Honduras and down there you have to sanitize your wheels on your vehicle every time you move it. Stop at a store sanitize move the car one block down sanitize. Also when u go in a store you have to walk threw a foot bath.


For what? Foot and mouth disease? No mouthwash?


----------



## Simpleterrier

That's how u prevent covid-19. Duh


----------



## Simpleterrier

To me it shows how most of the pandemic is fake. 

Some guys at work are saying well they did what they knew to try and at least they are trying to stop it in Honduras.

No u don't get an A for trying something thing that is so far from doing anything right.

I'm sick of the hole at least you tried.

Some times in life u are wrong and u suck so admit it and move on. 

Sanitizing your wheels really come on people how stupid can u be and to say at least they are trying. I'm sick of it. 

Don't people realize that covid was blown out of proportion. That the vaccine only protects you and only lessons your symptoms maybe. Well at least we are trying. Sick sick sick.

Sorry u can't come in here your not vaccinated. Oh if u want to work hear u have to wear a mask and have a red patch on your shirt cause your not vaccinated.

If your vaccinated what do u give a flying rats  if I am or not if your believe it then your vaxed and couldn't get it from me anyways. Come on people open your stupid eyes. 

I'm sorry it's been to long we the people need to take control back. From fake news and fake Drs and fake politicians.

It's so bad that un educated people are scared to death and at least they tried foot bath and all.

I know preaching to the choir and some who will pick it apart.


----------



## CLSranch

OneFineAcre said:


> I think you've made it pretty clear you will not be taking the vaccine.
> 
> You seem more than a little obsessed with the subject.





Alaskan said:


> I thought she was just trying to share info as it comes up.





Beekissed said:


> Yep...I'll continue to do so.  Truth is to be shared when it becomes available.  Those who don't like the truth are free to pass it by or put me on ignore.  It's just that simple.  Doesn't have be any drama attached to it.


And @Beekissed I greatly appreciate your information.


Simpleterrier said:


> Here's an interesting thing. A guy from work just got back from Honduras and down there you have to sanitize your wheels on your vehicle every time you move it. Stop at a store sanitize move the car one block down sanitize. Also when u go in a store you have to walk threw a foot bath.


I hate the new incronems or whatever they're called BUT what WHTF. I guess it does help when you shouldn't type a certain word.


----------



## Alasgun

Only the tires on the left side of my truck and boat would qualify as sanitized! The way they sit in the yard afford me a clear shot when i need to “sanitize something” and keep me out of the public eye!

Em tires pretty clean too! I keep‘s em pretty sanitized😳
And like @Beekissed and others, That’s about as close to vaccinated as anything will get around here. I guess “im trying”.

p.s- If you go fishing with me; i’ll have you get in and out on the left if it makes you feel safe!


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## farmerjan

I appreciate all the articles being shared.... especially since I am not a computer person so don't go on and look or find much of this info.... sorta like I need someone to practically put it in front of me..... 

Talked to my sister yesterday when she was on the way to my parents place in NH , to see my dad and how he was doing after my mom passing Tuesday... be there as some support I guess for a bit.... and talk to my brothers and all.  
Anyway, she said that her co-worker's granddaughter  got the first covid shot, because of the rules being imposed now for some of the sports.... she has had a very bad reaction to it, has the heart inflamation, swelling, and wound up in the hospital... now, nearly a month later, she has no strength, no energy, loses her breath walking down the hallway at the house going to her room.... and the doctors are concerned that this may have caused permanent damage.  This is horrible as this kid was into every sport imaginable... my sister said the family is going ballistic and threatening the school system with a lawsuit...they have already contacted a lawyer,,,,, because this "vaccine" is not an approved vaccine,   and that the school had no right to require it for the kids to take it to play in the sports.....this child may never be "right again".... and sissy said the young girl is beside herself and so depressed over not being able to even do normal stuff....

So please, please, do not give it to your kids at this point in time.  You read the statistics and all... but this is an actual case of someone that is "known"... to my sister at least.... 
Her son and daughter-in-law have a little girl and they are talking another child and so neither of them will take it either because of possible problems with infertility, sterility, or birth defects.

This vaccine has only "emergency authorization"... it has not gone through all the studies and all to get full FDA and whatever other boards' approval.  With the increasing numbers of reported adverse effects.... everyone should think twice and three times and then think again, about giving it to kids and younger people.  
It may have been the saving grace for older people and people with co-morbidities and problems...

Sadly, I think we are going to pay for this dearly down the road.


----------



## Mike CHS

When they release a vaccine where the maker has no liability, I'm not taking it either.


----------



## Alasgun

@farmerjan your story makes my heart ache! I just don’t know what else to say other than me an the wife will hold her up in our prayers.

what is happening in our land is not good right now!


----------



## Beekissed

Dr. Fuellmich: There is No Corona Pandemic, It's a Fraudulent 'PCR Test Pandemic'
					

Dr. Reiner Fuellmich returns to explain how the rich and powerful created a fake pandemic to enact their agenda.




					rumble.com


----------



## Beekissed

Dr. Bradley Campbell, DABCI on Instagram: "Dance your way to health!"
					

Dr. Bradley Campbell, DABCI shared a post on Instagram: "Dance your way to health!". Follow their account to see 796 posts.




					www.instagram.com


----------



## Beekissed

-MAGNETISM INTENTIONALLY ADDED TO COVID VACCINES!
					

TO FIND OUT MORE ABOUT JOINING CHARLIE WARDS INSIDER'S CLUB CLICK HERE; https://drcharlieward.com/ 📧 Charlies FREE Newsletter https://DrCharlieWard.com 💥 Get the latest information on 5G at https://bi




					rumble.com


----------



## farmerjan

One of the things that I have been reading, is that with all these new "variants" of the coronavirus, that the "vaccine" that was originally developed....will not actually protect you from the variants because the mRNA that causes the spike protein... is specific.... and that you will actually get sicker from the variants if you have had the vaccine, rather than if you get a natural immunity from being exposed or contracting the virus its self.... because by getting natural exposure, it does not target just the one strain, but causes your body to produce anti-bodies to ANY strain that you get exposed to in the future... it says, hey, this is SIMILAR the last one, and so if it is like it, it is something we need to guard against... the vaccine says.... this is not the exact thing so not to worry about it.... and the variant gets through... 

I don't know how exact that is... but it makes sense.  You get a flu "vaccine" which is based on the most "likely" strain they think will hit.... and so another strain hits and you have some but not a full reaction because it is similar but not the same....and you get sick anyway....

The thing that concerns me is that this mRNA type has been used on animals and every study that I have been able to find .....they have halted the studies because all the animals had reactions and/or DIED during the studies.  

The passing of the blood/brain barrier is concerning to me.   
And now the huge rise in things like the heart problems, inflamation and such, in younger people..... and the possible other side effects... because this "warp speed" developement of this "vaccine" has not gone through the studies normally required, so it is not been given full status, but only an "emergency authorization".

It may have been the best way for elderly and people with co-morbidities , to be able to fight this off.... but there is not any good reason that I see to give it to younger people that have less chance of dying from "covid" than they do of dying from the "regular" flu.... with the long term side effects not having been studied because there hadn't been any long term trials available....

How many drugs were approved that have been taken off the market after hundreds of people had problems with or reactions to the drugs....with far smaller numbers than have been reported to the CDC and such through that VAERS system....

The fact that the studies of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin were squashed as basically "voodoo" medicine..... because of the fact that they were brought to the forefront due to Trump.... really sets wrong with me.  Especially since they have both been QUIETLY  now approved for use.... That is really WRONG.
I don't care who promotes it.... if it is a basically SAFE drug, why not try repurposing it.... We do it with animal drugs all the time.....especially if it has a good track record for what it was originally prescribed for....if it can't hurt why not try it....?????

But then it is well known that getting and keeping your body as healthy as possible is not good for the big pharma.... and results in fewer doctor visits... so they cannot keep you coming back to take more and more drugs.  

I keep getting all these "reminders" to come in for this test and that, to get this shot and that.... I need this booster for this and that.... I would be going to the dr office every month for something if I let them start with the whole list of things I "need" to stay healthy.... yet I have done without most of them all my life by trying to naturally stay healthy.....
Maybe I will miss something, and wind up with some dreaded disease, or cancer... or something.  But I just don't see having to go in for this test and that test constantly.  I am not going to live in FEAR, that I might get sick.... but rather live, and believe,  that I am going to basically be a healthy person by trying to keep my body in decent shape and not overdue stupid stuff like constant junk food, and unhealthy and sedentary lifestyles.  I am far from perfect, and I like to indulge in "unhealthy" things too.... But I refuse to get on the treadmill of a pill for this and a pill for that.... and keep on taking more and more that causes more and more reactions that requires more and more pills....


----------



## Baymule

farmerjan said:


> One of the things that I have been reading, is that with all these new "variants" of the coronavirus, that the "vaccine" that was originally developed....will not actually protect you from the variants because the mRNA that causes the spike protein... is specific.... and that you will actually get sicker from the variants if you have had the vaccine, rather than if you get a natural immunity from being exposed or contracting the virus its self.... because by getting natural exposure, it does not target just the one strain, but causes your body to produce anti-bodies to ANY strain that you get exposed to in the future... it says, hey, this is SIMILAR the last one, and so if it is like it, it is something we need to guard against... the vaccine says.... this is not the exact thing so not to worry about it.... and the variant gets through...
> 
> I don't know how exact that is... but it makes sense.  You get a flu "vaccine" which is based on the most "likely" strain they think will hit.... and so another strain hits and you have some but not a full reaction because it is similar but not the same....and you get sick anyway....
> 
> The thing that concerns me is that this mRNA type has been used on animals and every study that I have been able to find .....they have halted the studies because all the animals had reactions and/or DIED during the studies.
> 
> The passing of the blood/brain barrier is concerning to me.
> And now the huge rise in things like the heart problems, inflamation and such, in younger people..... and the possible other side effects... because this "warp speed" developement of this "vaccine" has not gone through the studies normally required, so it is not been given full status, but only an "emergency authorization".
> 
> It may have been the best way for elderly and people with co-morbidities , to be able to fight this off.... but there is not any good reason that I see to give it to younger people that have less chance of dying from "covid" than they do of dying from the "regular" flu.... with the long term side effects not having been studied because there hadn't been any long term trials available....
> 
> How many drugs were approved that have been taken off the market after hundreds of people had problems with or reactions to the drugs....with far smaller numbers than have been reported to the CDC and such through that VAERS system....
> 
> The fact that the studies of hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin were squashed as basically "voodoo" medicine..... because of the fact that they were brought to the forefront due to Trump.... really sets wrong with me.  Especially since they have both been QUIETLY  now approved for use.... That is really WRONG.
> I don't care who promotes it.... if it is a basically SAFE drug, why not try repurposing it.... We do it with animal drugs all the time.....especially if it has a good track record for what it was originally prescribed for....if it can't hurt why not try it....?????
> 
> But then it is well known that getting and keeping your body as healthy as possible is not good for the big pharma.... and results in fewer doctor visits... so they cannot keep you coming back to take more and more drugs.
> 
> I keep getting all these "reminders" to come in for this test and that, to get this shot and that.... I need this booster for this and that.... I would be going to the dr office every month for something if I let them start with the whole list of things I "need" to stay healthy.... yet I have done without most of them all my life by trying to naturally stay healthy.....
> Maybe I will miss something, and wind up with some dreaded disease, or cancer... or something.  But I just don't see having to go in for this test and that test constantly.  I am not going to live in FEAR, that I might get sick.... but rather live, and believe,  that I am going to basically be a healthy person by trying to keep my body in decent shape and not overdue stupid stuff like constant junk food, and unhealthy and sedentary lifestyles.  I am far from perfect, and I like to indulge in "unhealthy" things too.... But I refuse to get on the treadmill of a pill for this and a pill for that.... and keep on taking more and more that causes more and more reactions that requires more and more pills....


A BIG HUGE AMEN!!!! to that!


----------



## Beekissed




----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

messybun said:


> Let me just say to the young ladies on here, be super careful if you’re unvaccinated and are around women who were. They’re seeing that the unvaccinated woman will start menstruating or egg dumping when in contact with a vaccinated woman.


Can you provide some more info/source for this? This is very concerning as I'm over halfway through my first pregnancy.


----------



## B&B Happy goats

Larsen Poultry Ranch said:


> Can you provide some more info/source for this? This is very concerning as I'm over halfway through my first pregnancy.


I believe I have read articles that it has affected  women in  very early pregnancy,   ( causing abortion) ...and has changed regular patterns  of menstrual  cycles....
Please don't  add stress to yourself worrying  about it, just carry on and enjoy your upcoming  beautiful  baby...big hugs to you and congratulations.


----------



## Beekissed

Larsen Poultry Ranch said:


> Can you provide some more info/source for this? This is very concerning as I'm over halfway through my first pregnancy.


Ask these folks....they can direct you to scads of info on people who have miscarried, had stillborn, etc. after the vax and even being in contact with those who have had them..





__





						Facebook
					






					www.facebook.com


----------



## CLSranch

Beekissed said:


> Ask these folks....they can direct you to scads of info on people who have miscarried, had stillborn, etc. after the vax and even being in contact with those who have had them..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Facebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com


I've also heard of some losing a breast feeding child through the milk after getting the shot to protect the baby (2days). It is not a healthy choice. Many vaccines are wonderful and saving lives everyday,,,,,,,,, not this one.


----------



## Beekissed

Top Doctors Speculate a Reversal on COVID Vaccine Safety Could Be Coming
					






					townhall.com


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Sign in Delmar , Delaware.


----------



## farmerjan

I just returned from my sad trip up north for my mom's funeral in NH.   There were signs all through Pa and Mass and VT for free covid vaccinations with several different slogans about the benefits to get with the program and all that.  It was disgusting to see that propaganda on those electronic signs that often carry messages about traffic conditions and amber alerts and such.  It was clearly a push to get people to think about getting the vaccinations.... and to try to get to that "magical number" of 70%.... which I really don't  believe they are near as close as they say.  
More and more places have people without masks even up there.... thank GOD for that.  

Nope, none of the family has gotten the shot and most absolutely refuse except my one brother who is an EMT and he says that we have not seen some of what he has seen with the problems people have had with it...told my son he is crazy to not consider it.... he said that was fine, he was entitled to his opinion, but that he (DS) would not be getting it...  end of discussion.  
See the article above referenced by @Beekissed ..... it is S-L-O-W-L-Y getting out to people,  that there is more than one side that "all is rosy" and wonderful....


----------



## Grizzlyhackle

Trying to get corporate to relax masks at work they passed out a survey asking about the vaccine. Only asked if you had got it or refused to. I asked about what if you haven't made up your mind. Boss replied what are you waiting for? My response wasn't appreciated. She and her husband are civic noseybodies, firefighters and EMTs.  They walk on water. I'm local trash, their come here's of course that makes them smarter. I asked her did she remember thalidomide and all the birth defects and if she wanted to explain to my wife why my heart got worse and would she mind being part of the harassment lawsuit or would she rather wear the mask and leave me alone. The silence was awkward.
Corporates in England anything that happens there they enforce globally. So because India is having problems everybody suffers.
The masks I agree are a pita, but at least they do filter out all the bad breath.


----------



## Baymule

@Grizzlyhackle you be you and do what you think is right for your health. Being a guinea pig isn't on my list of things to do.


----------



## CLSranch

I found this on town hall


----------



## CLSranch

Found another one.


----------



## Beekissed

We Want to Be Seen, Heard and Believed
					

People talk about their reaction to the Covid vaccines.




					rumble.com


----------



## Beekissed

CDC Investigating Death of 13-Year-Old That Died After COVID Vaccine
					

Jacob Clynick received his second dose of the Pfizer vaccine on June 13 and died on June 15. The CDC says it's "premature to assign a specific cause of death."




					www.newsweek.com


----------



## Baymule

And our beloved president  wants teams going door to door to vaccinate people.


----------



## Alaskan

Baymule said:


> And our beloved president  wants teams going door to door to vaccinate people.


That is already happening.


----------



## Larsen Poultry Ranch

Here's a screenshot for you:





I received this text today just before lunch. I've heard the 'Vaccinate all 58' before, but was unaware they'd be texting people to poll whether they had received a vaccine. I'd like to know where they got my number.


----------



## Alaskan

Up here people were called. 

So, this guy i know, he has FAS bad enough that he is not sharp.

Nice local lady was calling everyone in assisted housing here in town talking them into getting the shot.

And...  a group of people went to the no-road communities, walked door to door, and said "here we are to give you a shot"


----------



## CrikyWalk

Farmerjan, in your story, there is the pain of all humanity today. It's just incredible what happens to everyone at the same time. And although the mass media does tell us every day that we should be vaccinated, everyone has the right to decide whether he wants to be subjected to experiments or not. I don't understand why all the politicians are shouting and giving statements about a virus, and very few doctors come out to say their opinion about the virus. We should not allow our children to be vaccinated and turn them into disabled people .my family has withstood a light form of covid, and recently we went to the center https://www.confirmbiosciences.com/covid19-sars-antigen-rapid-swab-test we conducted an antibody analysis. So far, we have been left alone.


----------



## Beekissed

COVID VACCINE VICTIMS AND FAMILIES
					

I would just like to spread awareness about a bad reaction I had to the COVID vaccine  These pictures is what happened to my legs and also my arms and back  after the vaccine.My veins and blood cells had burst and was bleeding under the skin. I was unable to walk for a over a month where it had...




					t.me


----------



## Beekissed

Judicial Watch: New VA Records Document COVID-19 Vaccine Adverse Reaction Reports among Veterans; Agency Withholds Detailed Reports; CRT Wording in Vaccine Plan - Judicial Watch
					

(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch announced today that it received 75 pages of records from the Department of Veterans Affairs detailing the adverse reactions veterans had to the COVID-19 vaccines. As of April 2021, Veteran’s Health Services reported 895 serious reactions which included: 20...



					www.judicialwatch.org


----------



## CLSranch

And half of the reactions are being reported as coincidental or not reported at all. I work with a guy who just started having chest problems and had to quit work for 6wks before getting cleared that it wasn't his heart and they are looking for other causes. He still misses a lot of work now. 
 Could it be that he had the vaccine.??? Hmmm


----------



## Beekissed

The Other Side of the COVID Vaccination Argument, Video - The Last Refuge
					

As a result of such one-side information, people are increasingly skeptical. In this video you find the counter-position. Why people do not want the vaccination




					theconservativetreehouse.com


----------



## farmerjan

Now if you are "FULLY VACCINATED"  you need to wear a mask all the time???  And the requirements now MANDATING you have to be vaccinated to work in NY state jobs... yet if you are vaccinated there is no guarantee you won't get the disease, just supposed to have a lessor reaction and not need hospitalization..?????

And absolutely NO ALLOWANCES for people who have recovered and have antibodies.....


----------



## Chebird

My husband and I are fully vaccinated. FREEDOM, right?

Well, we went out of state for my husband's mom's memorial service. One of our party did not feel well. Everyone thought it was travel fatigue.

Fast forward: Every single person, save three, who came to the house after the service came down with Covid.  About 1/2 of us were vaccinated. The vaccines obviously didn't protect us from the new delta strain.

My husband (vaccinated) and his son (not vaccinated) ended up in the hospital. Son's O2 dropped to 80. Hubby got to come home with steroids and O2.  Several people are stuck at my sister's house, and all have varying symptoms. The younger people were initially very sick. Nobody got what one would call mild illness. We are very concerned about one sister (was vaccinated) who has cancer.

My personal symptoms have been severe weakness, severe fatigue and not being able to eat. Zero taste or smell. Both my husband and I have lost fifteen pounds ( I don't recommend the Rona-diet).

To feed our critters, I have been stumbling out back and feed and water everyone with many breaks. IT IS HARD! I have to take many breaks because I feel faint.

So, the point of this cautionary tale is to not count on the vaccine to do anything except prevent a severe case or death. I am VERY happy that we were vaccinated - my husband could have died (according to the hospital).

Please be careful whether you are vaccinated or not.


----------



## Baymule

@Chebird I’m so sorry that you and family were/are sick. It is a serious illness. I hope you and husband continue to improve.


----------



## Beekissed

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1420092482327621640


----------



## farmerjan

@Chebird , did your son or husband get any treatments with either hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin?  Have seen the miracle that both can produce... and they both had response in 24 hours... long before the patients got so bad as to have to be hospitalized.  
I am sorry that your family all contracted it.  And hope that you continue to improve.  But you should consider trying alternatives even at this point... neither one will kill you and the results are pretty dramatic.


----------



## Buckthorn

Praying for you and yours Chebird. Hang in there.

There are other interviews with Dr. Malone, but this one is the most succinct. It appears, among the vaccinated, we are seeing occur what many doctors have been concerned about for some time, Antibody-Dependent-Enhancement. Dr. Malone has dedicated his career to developing vaccines, including mRNA vaccines. He is pro safe vaccines.

I, myself, had Covid a year ago and got very sick. I have asthma. The rest of my family would not have thought they had more than pollen allergies. About 10 years ago, I am almost certain i had SARS. It developed into pneumonia within a day, and I nearly died. Two co-workers had traveled to China. SARS-Cov-2 unfolded for me almost exactly as the illness that landed me in the hospital with pneumonia, sepsis and renal failure. All this being said, I caught SARS-Cov-2 (Covid) a second time, and fought it off without a lot of fuss.

God Bless everyone trying to navigate this mess. Trust in the Lord.









						The Vaccine Causes The Virus To Be More Dangerous
					

The Vaccine Causes The Virus To Be More Dangerous




					rumble.com


----------



## Mike CHS

It's no guarantee but we have Ivermectin on hand if it becomes needed.


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> It's no guarantee but we have Ivermectin on hand if it becomes needed.


Us too. We think BJ had it in January/February 2020 before anybody even knew what Covid was. I didn't get sick, so maybe my immune system was strong enough to fight it off or I was asymptomatic? He was sick for 2 months and it took another 3 months for him to really start feeling good again. And to think I could have just set the dial for 250 pounds on some yummy apple flavored ivermectin and it would have been over!


----------



## Chebird

farmerjan said:


> @Chebird , did your son or husband get any treatments with either hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin?  Have seen the miracle that both can produce... and they both had response in 24 hours... long before the patients got so bad as to have to be hospitalized.
> I am sorry that your family all contracted it.  And hope that you continue to improve.  But you should consider trying alternatives even at this point... neither one will kill you and the results are pretty dramatic.


Nope, both husband and son were treated, then sent home, with O2 and Dex (steroid). They live in 2 different states, so I am assuming that the treatment they received is standard protocol. Both my husband and I are improving, and son came home from the hospital yesterday. We have more of an appetite now, and eating solid food is working wonders.

Thanks so much for your concern.


----------



## farmerjan

I am glad that you are improving.  Sadly, all they did was treat the symptoms and not the infection.  Dex is for mostly anti-inflammatory response... it is a steroid.  We use it for the cattle for some things.  It may help the immune response, but does nothing to cure the situation... I am sorry that is all they did, but am glad that at least that has helped you.  
We use the animal ivermectin pour on for the cattle.... a little bit gets spilled on us when we run cattle through the chute "weekly", for worming, and helps with lice and flies and other things.....since you have the calf in your avatar, you might want to look into it....sometimes we use the apple flavored that they use for horses....


----------



## Chebird

farmerjan said:


> I am glad that you are improving.  Sadly, all they did was treat the symptoms and not the infection.  Dex is for mostly anti-inflammatory response... it is a steroid.  We use it for the cattle for some things.  It may help the immune response, but does nothing to cure the situation... I am sorry that is all they did, but am glad that at least that has helped you.
> We use the animal ivermectin pour on for the cattle.... a little bit gets spilled on us when we run cattle through the chute "weekly", for worming, and helps with lice and flies and other things.....since you have the calf in your avatar, you might want to look into it....sometimes we use the apple flavored that they use for horses....


Thanks for your answer. I love reading your posts and replies! 

Yes, I understand that Dex treats, not cures, but it also helps to prevent the awful immune response which has killed many people. We are actually getting much better, praise God!  Yesterday, and so far today, I feel pretty normal. Hubby is now upright and eating solids, but still has some fatigue and weakness and is on oxygen.

So you worm weekly? Is that because of where you live? Yes, I have tubes of ivermectin that I use on horses - but only every six months per vet's instructions. He told us he will give us a drench wormer for our calf when he is six months. We really don't have much of a parasite problem here, most likely due to our arid climate for the better part of the year.

Here's another picture of Cecil: only because everyone needs a daily dose of cuteness!


----------



## farmerjan

I think you "missed" the  subtle subtitles.   "I " worm weekly..... it is easy to spill the ivermectin on you when you are aiming the spray gun on the cattle...... the cattle get wormed as needed.  I cannot prescribe what people do for themselves.....  
We have no more worm problems than any other area...and we mostly only do something if we think it needs it.... the ivermectin has many purposes.....and works for many things......
yes, your arid climate there probably does contribute to a much lower parasite problem then we normally have here.  That is why we try to breed for parasite resistance too.


----------



## farmerjan

Yet, with results like this.... they are now MANDATING all indoor restaurant workers, all indoor gyms and more are REQUIRED to be vaccinated....in NYC.....
Federal mandates were ruled not constitutional... yet this is state mandated.... 
And  GOV CUOMO  .....Mr A..HOLE ......has just been found to have sexually harassed multiple women..... 

More and more reasons to stay away from NY.....


----------



## farmerjan

Does anyone listen to Sean Hannity on the radio?  He had 2 doctors on the show yesterday that both are treating many patients for covid... and the protocols they use;  and the absolute insanity of not using early treatment to STOP all the problems.... and one made the comment that NO OTHER "DISEASE" is addressed like this... that you treat the symptoms as early as you can to mitigate the problems....and then try vaccines to PREVENT it from re-occuring... yet this they say vaccinate, then when you get it wait until you are sick enough to need the doctor and then go to the hospital... instead of treating with PROVEN drugs to stop it and get the people on the road to getting better almost immediately......
So instead we have to get sick, go get tested, and then become a statistic...... how many of us ever went to the doctor for a cold.....CORONA VIRUS...... and became a statistic they were counting?????  

This is driving me totally crazy.....all they do is count "numbers of cases".... yet no one is counting numbers of cases that are cured by early intervention treatment...... 
So what if Florida and Texas have record numbers of "new cases"..... if these people were getting the kind of treatment they needed as soon as they start to feel sick, then they would already be on the way to getting better/over it.....
Everyone with half a brain on this forum takes things to help strengthen their immune systems on a regular basis and if you get feeling a little crappy, you up the "support" vitamins and such to try to fight it off quicker.....

Everything is geared towards the "horrible numbers of NEW CASES"..... have they ever counted the number of new cases that were effectively treated and people that are getting over it in record time from ALTERNATIVE TREATMENTS?
Of course NOT.... that would take away from this insane push for a "vaccine" that is not a vaccine.... that is proving more and more to be only 30-40% effective.... and sure does not prevent the vaccinated from getting this new variant.. This is no different than the whole flu "vaccine" that is also not a true vaccine..... and they guess every year which strain might be more prevalent and then hope that you get the shot, and then have some resistance.... BS to that too......


----------



## Mike CHS

Dr Robert Malone who did a lot of the early research work with mrna has been saying the same thing for months now on Steve Bannon's show but the social media "fact checkers" have just about disappeared him.


----------



## Baymule

A friend of ours has Covid now. He has not been tested. Dr gave him a shot of steroids, antibiotics and an inhaler, same treatment BJ got in February 2020. I told his wife to give him selenium, zinc, C, double up on multi vitamin and a B complex. Also chicken broth with resh ginger and garlic grated in it. He is doing better, his immune system is fighting it off. She is not sick. I didn’t get sick when BJ had it.

A disabled neighbor couple took the shots, now she has blood clots, is in pain and feels bad.


----------



## Baymule

@farmerjan what protocol are the 2 doctors using?


----------



## farmerjan

Here is the web page I went on to pull the 2 doctors info.... aaps.wufoo.com/reports/z1tdq8q714w7gyj

You can find lists of doctors that practice early intervention... there are about 10 in Texas.... There are 110 listed , by state, and many do telemedicine consultations.......

Then I found Fareed/Tyson Covid 19 treatment protocol.... I found it under the heading of treatment protocol... I think it was #11 on the list.... 
They spell out EXACTLY what they tell patients....both for treatment and for prevention.  

These are the doctors that were on Sean Hannity.....


----------



## promiseacres

We had a friend from church pass away from it on Tuesday. He was 60? and had asthma. His wife is still in the hospital with it, she has no spleen. I don't know vaccine status or if it was the new strain. He was the healthier of the two. 
I'm ordering horse dewormer this week, I'll add some extra ivermectin. This idea that you can just treat the symptoms when there's medications that treat it is just mind boggling.  Or that EVERYONE has to be vaccinated is too. IF the vaccine WORKS then get it. Let people make up their minds about THEIR health. Some people can't have the vaccine for numerous reasons.  They shouldn't be made to be villains.


----------



## Alaskan

promiseacres said:


> Some people can't have the vaccine for numerous reasons. They shouldn't be made to be villains.


X a jillion.

The insanity just blows my mind.

Logic has been tossed away.


----------



## farmerjan

DS told me that our stupid governor .... VA..... has MANDATED today,  that all state employees be vaccinated or be tested weekly....DS  had covid-19 last year... and because of having had Lyme disease.... it is not recommended.... he says he will not take the vaccine... which I also am adamant he does not take.... so , says for now, he will submit to weekly testing... weighing his options.... may decide to push for the disability now.....he has been on the phone with several of his friends in VDOT and they are saying that at least 1/4 to 1/3 of them have not had the vaccine, and will not get it.... several are going to go on and retire that can do so... and 1/2 the young guys there with less than 5-6 years say they will quit because they can find plenty of work with some of the construction/heavy equipment companies....
God Bless Florida Governor  Ron DeSantis's "rebuttal" Biden's comments of if certain officials are not willing to abide by the CDC... and all that BS....the masking and shutdowns and mandates and all the school restrictions....  then they should get out of the way .... and he said He will NOT GET OUT OF THE WAY, he will stand IN THE WAY..... and stop this insanity.  
The world is going off the deep end.... totally....


----------



## Mike CHS

I'm leaving a link that has about everything you would want to know about covid including studies about treatments.





__





						The COVID Blog™
					

Official blog of COVID Legal USA™. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant.




					thecovidblog.com
				




Edit to add, don't waste time putting it in google as they are censoring it and it won't show up.  I put it in duckduckgo and it was the first hit.


----------



## farmerjan

Yeah, screw google... duckduckgo is the only search engine to use as they do present all sides... even if we don't agree... they may not be perfect, but they are trying to be unbiased.


----------



## farmerjan

At least duckduckgo gives you the ability to choose what you look at....


----------



## Baymule

Isn’t it illegal for a state to demand a vaccine?  Reckon your son would want to file a lawsuit or is it just not worth it?


----------



## Baymule

Mike CHS said:


> I'm leaving a link that has about everything you would want to know about covid including studies about treatments.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The COVID Blog™
> 
> 
> Official blog of COVID Legal USA™. Vaccines are the leading cause of coincidences. Stay Vigilant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thecovidblog.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit to add, don't waste time putting it in google as they are censoring it and it won't show up.  I put it in duckduckgo and it was the first hit.


This worked just fine on my I-phone. It is plain that this whole debacle is being used as a step in population reduction.  United Nations Agenda 2021 is here and United Nations Agenda 2030 is underway.


----------



## caprines.n.me

Admittedly I don't follow this closely so I have a question.  Is it the virus that they're trying to kill us off with or the vaccine?


----------



## farmerjan

The "vaccine" which is not a true vaccine, is what will cause all the health problems, and sterility, and what will kill us off.  The "covid"  disease is only one of hundreds of coronaviruses that exist and for most people is no more devastating that a bad bout of the flu.  And can be treated early in the outset, and is still 99.7% survivable.  
The virus was unleashed to cause a panic... which it did..... then it has been manipulated by saying there was NOTHING you could use to treat it with until you were so sick you were in the hospital and put on a ventilator.... basically they have gotten people to panic over the whole thing and into believing that only the "vaccine" will save them.... and now it is coming out that the shot is not the cure all and that many people are getting sicker from the variants because this shot only targets one type... and the response by this shot does not recognize the overall family of corona viruses.... but if you have natural antibodies from having contracted the virus, your body will recognize and fight off any of the variants because they are part of the same "family"..... 
There is a video on SS that tells of the "trade secret ingredient"  that is graphine oxide...which helps to make the shot basically indestructible so the lipidnanoparticles can enter into the cells.... and it also can be activated by a positive charge which has consequences that I am trying to understand.... but by its self, graphine oxide is a poison.... and should NEVER have been added to this shot .....It is mind boggling what is coming out....

The very worst of all this goes back to the simple fact that NO WHERE has any of the "medical experts" involved in the gov't and the big wheel organizations... like the NIH or the CDC.... have they talked about... or even allowed for..... the trials and published results by many many esteemed doctors and researchers.... with the FACTS that there are many ways to fight this off if started at the earliest onset of symptoms... and that it is curable with simple long standing very safe off label use of other very safe drugs that have been on the market for years.  

He//, if you get the flu the doctor will tell you to go home, rest, drink fluids, take tylenol, even to up certain vitamins... 
With this, they just tell you to go home and hope your blood O2 doesn't get too low and that if you get to the point of having trouble breathing to go to the hospital..... not even to come back and see me in 3 days if you get to feeling worse.   And the ones that tried to offer alternative treatments the doctors were threatened with their jobs and livelihoods... and treated like they were the ones trying to kill their patients with "unproven" medicines.... that had 40-50-60 years  of proof of safety.... but this newly developed warp speed vaccine with NO long term testing results... was the answer to all your woes....
And natural immunity is poo-pooed like it is of no value......from once having the virus and recovering.... really.. give me a break....


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> Isn’t it illegal for a state to demand a vaccine?  Reckon your son would want to file a lawsuit or is it just not worth it?


Filing a lawsuit would take time that they are willing to drag through the courts.... for months and years... since there have been some "opinions" by some that it could be up to the states or individual businesses... 
This is a fight that I am not sure could ever be won in the political climate we are in...


----------



## Baymule

Yeah, you are right, plus too many koolaid drinkers that don’t want to know the adverse effects of the shot. True, many, many people have taken it with no ill effects. But the fact that deaths and adverse side effects are being hidden, treatments that WORK are being with held from the public, is just plain wrong. Whatever side of the deepening divide you are on, doesn’t that sound suspicious?


----------



## farmerjan

One place to find alot of information is the Life Site website.  They carry many of the doctors that are fighting this at the real level... in the field with their own patients... And the hundreds of researchers that have data to prove that some of these treatments are VERY EFFECTIVE.... 
Dr Peter McCullough is a VERY VERY highly esteemed doctor, actually working in the day to day real time "trenches" of a practice... with some huge accolades for his knowledge, and constant writings in many medical journals for his studies and practices.  He is not some quack or crackpot......
Dr Pierre Cory practically cried when he went before the Senate committee.... trying to get them to at least look at the paper he had written with many co-authors... about the benefits of EARLY TREATMENT and the huge success rate to cure people and prevent hospitalizations... 

There is an article on Mexico City deciding to treat the populance with ivermectin and arithromycin..... offering a "kit" to the general public and severe cases and hospitalizations dropped 50-75% in less than 2 weeks.... REALLY......

People are so d@#n dumb and want the gov't to take care of them and they are letting the gov't go so far as to destroy their health in the guise of "we have your best interests at heart"....BS they do... they just want total control.  This country is being destroyed by people not using their heads, not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions, wanting the easy way out and not having to work for anything, but letting someone else "take care of them"... in exchange for just not disagreeing and going along with the ones telling them what to do.  
It makes me sick.


----------



## Baymule

It’s pretty plain and clear, we are on our own.


----------



## farmerjan

Baymule said:


> A friend of ours has Covid now. He has not been tested. Dr gave him a shot of steroids, antibiotics and an inhaler, same treatment BJ got in February 2020. I told his wife to give him selenium, zinc, C, double up on multi vitamin and a B complex. Also chicken broth with resh ginger and garlic grated in it. He is doing better, his immune system is fighting it off. She is not sick. I didn’t get sick when BJ had it.
> 
> A disabled neighbor couple took the shots, now she has blood clots, is in pain and feels bad.


----------



## farmerjan

Some food for thought.... bitchute.com/video/mefo6fgi2RxH/


----------



## Mike CHS

farmerjan said:


> Some food for thought.... bitchute.com/video/mefo6fgi2RxH/



I got a page not found error.


----------



## Mike CHS

https://www.bitchute.com/video/TsdTTHJteilw/https://www.bitchute.com/video/TsdTTHJteilw/
		


I don't know much about this Doctor but his explanation is interesting.


----------



## farmerjan

Mike CHS said:


> I got a page not found error.


www.bitchute.com/video/mefo6fgi2RzH/  copied it exact... but go on the cattleforumtoday  forum... political tweets and clips page 171 ... about 1/3 way down it is a post by D2cat... referencing Jerry Day and his thoughts on the situation...


----------



## farmerjan

farmerjan said:


> www.bitchute.com/video/mefo6fgi2RzH/  copied it exact... but go on the cattleforumtoday  forum... political tweets and clips page 171 ... about 1/3 way down it is a post by D2cat... referencing Jerry Day and his thoughts on the situation...


After I reposted it. I got it to work... hope it will work for you.


----------



## farmerjan

Mike CHS said:


> https://www.bitchute.com/video/TsdTTHJteilw/https://www.bitchute.com/video/TsdTTHJteilw/
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know much about this Doctor but his explanation is interesting.


@Mike CHS ... I can't remember if it is the same doctor but I don't think so....  i read a simplified explanation that talked about the spike protein... and his analogy to 8 blockers that are paralyzed.... The doctor that I heard and read, did a simple diagram...another analogy to football.... and said that the spike protein would have the front line to deflect and block the covid virus... but ONLY the specific one that the protein was designed for... so the variants will scoot between the  blockers and go and attack the body because the blockers do not recognize the variant as being in the same family... BUT..... people who were infected and recovered have  a natural immune response because the blockers now are versed in the whole general family of "corona viruses"  and recognizes it even though it may be a different strain and so they produce anti-bodies to fight ANY of the variations because they are in  the family... not just a specific one..... 
And the antibodies in the naturally recovered people do not make a spike protein.... they make a true antibody.... so there is no damage to any other cells from this manmade spike protein that causes the immune system to go into overdrive and basically attacks its self....

I wish I could remember where I saw it.... but the naturally occurring antibodies also did not pass the blood brain barrier and could not invade the cells like this mRNA spike protein could....
This is way above "my pay scale".....  but I think I am smart enough to get the gist of it.  And the more that I hear and the more that I read, it scares the living bejesus out of me... and makes me even more adamant to NEVER, NOT EVER, get this shot.


----------



## Mike CHS

Israel reported today that 95 percent of the Severe cases with covid have been vaccinated.  Add to that that the renowned DR TV is pushing for a new drug says the vaccine is not working.


----------



## farmerjan

It's NOT A VACCINE D@#N IT...... maybe the American people are waking up a bit and are tired of this BS that the gov't keeps trying to cram down our throats....????

For goodness sake, people need to get a dr on that list I referenced and get some people ivermectin and the "Z" pack to keep on hand as well as the vitamins and supplements that the other doctors set up in their treatment/prevention protocols... to have as personal protection.....or a supply of animal drugs that can be mutipurpose....

And we all had better look ahead and plan for some serious falling apart of things,   and have some things "squirreled " away for some tough times coming....
I have been looking for a "box truck" that has a freezer box... truck not important... to have a larger freezer area storage.... so we can accommodate holding some extra beeves if we need to.... for sale to customers....

Also, wood burning furnaces are back ordered....  like really,  really way off..... not a good sign.....


----------



## Baymule

Midazolam was used to end the lives of thousands who you were told had died of Covid-19 & an NHS document proves Staff were ordered to do it
					

An official NHS document proves that NHS staff were told respiratory depressing drugs “should not be withheld due to inappropriate concerns” about using them to treat Covid-19; a respir…




					dailyexpose.co.uk


----------



## Baymule

First Autopsy of Dead Person Vaccinated for Covid Found to Contain Spike Proteins in Every Organ of Body
					

Researchers discovered that the now-deceased vaccinated patient’s body was riddled with spike proteins in every organ of the body. Researchers from Germany conducted the world’s first-e…




					dailyexpose.co.uk


----------



## Margali

So Saturday I got a 3" or so 2nd degree burn on my arm. Monday I got a bunch of locust thorns in my leg. Tuesday I got some rusty barbed wire scraps. Decided, dang it, time for a TDaP booster since I last had one for July 2012 baby.

HEB immunization lady kept pushing the covid vaccine while in same breath insisting 9yrs was too soon for TDaP booster. I finally had to pull out CDC page and read it loudly were it states TDaP recommended 10yrs but can be given sooner for burns or other injuries. And threaten to report her for malpractice. I suprised she didn't jam me as hard as she could when she gave me the shot.


----------



## Baymule

FDA Accidentally Reveals List Of Covid Vaccine Side Effects (Myocarditis, Autoimmune Disease & Death) | SGT Report
					






					www.sgtreport.com
				




Possible adverse reactions shown in the FDA’s “working list” include:


Guillain-Barré syndrome
Acute disseminated encephaloymelitis (“Characterized by a brief but widespread attack of inflammation in the brain and spinal cord that damages myelin – the protective covering of nerve fibers,” according to NIH.)
Transverse myelitis
Encephalitis/ myelitis/ encephalomyelitis/ meningoencephalitis/ meningitis/ encepholaphathy
Convulsions/seizures
Stroke
Narcolepsy and cataplexy
Anaphlyaxis
Acute myocardial infarction
Myocarditis/pericarditis
Autoimmune disease
Deaths
Pregnancy and birth outcomes
Other acute demyelinating diseases
Non-anaphylactic allergic reactions
Thrombocytopenia
Disseminated intravascular coagulation
Venous thromboembolism
Arthritis and arthralgia/joint pain
Kawasaki disease
Vaccine enhanced disease
The list also notes “Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children” as one possible outcome following vaccination.

While adverse events were generally discussed throughout the meeting, the slide’s contents were not covered in-depth.

The meeting came as the FDA was considering granting emergency use authorization to Pfizer and Biontech’s experimental jab.

Despite the long list of known possible side effects, the FDA later granted Pfizer emergency use authorization on December 11, 2020, about two months after the meeting.


----------



## Alaskan

Margali said:


> So Saturday I got a 3" or so 2nd degree burn on my arm. Monday I got a bunch of locust thorns in my leg. Tuesday I got some rusty barbed wire scraps. Decided, dang it, time for a TDaP booster since I last had one for July 2012 baby.
> 
> HEB immunization lady kept pushing the covid vaccine while in same breath insisting 9yrs was too soon for TDaP booster. I finally had to pull out CDC page and read it loudly were it states TDaP recommended 10yrs but can be given sooner for burns or other injuries. And threaten to report her for malpractice. I suprised she didn't jam me as hard as she could when she gave me the shot.


Wow...that is so bad!

And in Texas no less where tetanus runs rampant!!!!

I am impressed that you kept your cool and didn't slap her.


----------



## farmerjan

Margali said:


> So Saturday I got a 3" or so 2nd degree burn on my arm. Monday I got a bunch of locust thorns in my leg. Tuesday I got some rusty barbed wire scraps. Decided, dang it, time for a TDaP booster since I last had one for July 2012 baby.
> 
> HEB immunization lady kept pushing the covid vaccine while in same breath insisting 9yrs was too soon for TDaP booster. I finally had to pull out CDC page and read it loudly were it states TDaP recommended 10yrs but can be given sooner for burns or other injuries. And threaten to report her for malpractice. I suprised she didn't jam me as hard as she could when she gave me the shot.


You need to access that report I referred to @Baymule  and find a doctor that has some more common sense... and quits pushing the stupid poisonous jab....


----------



## Alaskan

Baymule said:


> FDA Accidentally Reveals List Of Covid Vaccine Side Effects (Myocarditis, Autoimmune Disease & Death) | SGT Report
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sgtreport.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Possible adverse reactions shown in the FDA’s “working list” include:
> 
> 
> Guillain-Barré syndrome
> Acute disseminated encephaloymelitis (“Characterized by a brief but widespread attack of inflammation in the brain and spinal cord that damages myelin – the protective covering of nerve fibers,” according to NIH.)
> Transverse myelitis
> Encephalitis/ myelitis/ encephalomyelitis/ meningoencephalitis/ meningitis/ encepholaphathy
> Convulsions/seizures
> Stroke
> Narcolepsy and cataplexy
> Anaphlyaxis
> Acute myocardial infarction
> Myocarditis/pericarditis
> Autoimmune disease
> Deaths
> Pregnancy and birth outcomes
> Other acute demyelinating diseases
> Non-anaphylactic allergic reactions
> Thrombocytopenia
> Disseminated intravascular coagulation
> Venous thromboembolism
> Arthritis and arthralgia/joint pain
> Kawasaki disease
> Vaccine enhanced disease
> The list also notes “Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome in Children” as one possible outcome following vaccination.
> 
> While adverse events were generally discussed throughout the meeting, the slide’s contents were not covered in-depth.
> 
> The meeting came as the FDA was considering granting emergency use authorization to Pfizer and Biontech’s experimental jab.
> 
> Despite the long list of known possible side effects, the FDA later granted Pfizer emergency use authorization on December 11, 2020, about two months after the meeting.


And the CDC does have a page with actual reported side effects.....

And the main stream pretends it isn't there.


----------



## Margali

@farmerjan HEB is a grocery store with pharmacy and immunuzations. For a simple TDaP jab I went there cause it's walk in with $0 copay.


----------



## farmerjan

Margali said:


> @farmerjan HEB is a grocery store with pharmacy and immunuzations. For a simple TDaP jab I went there cause it's walk in with $0 copay.


I realized after that HEB was a grocery... like our Krogers', some of them do the shots too and have a pharmacy... Walmart here does shots and all at their pharmacy center... 
Admire your restraint.... I'd have said a few choice words and gotten in trouble for sure....


----------



## farmerjan

Some interesting info;








						Dr. Dan Stock's Presentation to the Mt. Vernon School Board in Indiana Over The Futility of Mask Mandates and Covid-19 Protocols
					

On Friday, August 7th Dr. Dan Stock addressed the Mt. Vernon School Board in Indiana over the futility of mask mandates and Covid-19 protoco...




					hancockcountypatriots.blogspot.com


----------



## CLSranch

farmerjan said:


> only the "vaccine" will save them.... and now it is coming out that the shot is not the cure all and that many people are getting sicker from the variants because this shot only targets one type... and the response by this shot does not recognize the overall family of corona viruses.... but if you have natural antibodies from having contracted the virus, your body will recognize and fight off any of the variants because they are part of the same "family".....


It's trying to be proven that the vaccine/vaccinated is what is allowing the change of variants. Those that just get better are better off than the vaccinated and it doesn't change the variant they just fight it off better the next time.


farmerjan said:


> And natural immunity is poo-pooed like it is of no value......from once having the virus and recovering....


And yes that would/could? simply stop the variant changes.


farmerjan said:


> There is an article on Mexico City deciding to treat the populance with ivermectin and arithromycin..... offering a "kit" to the general public and severe cases and hospitalizations dropped 50-75% in less than 2 weeks.... REALLY......


 Works great cures the disease. 
 But you will not see this in the news. May not even be able to see it here before to long.

 Isn't it also our #1 voice on deciding what you do the same person that made lots and lots of $$$$$$ from the lab that built the virus.


----------



## farmerjan

There is another cattle forum I go on.... cattleforumtoday.... that has a couple of threads....pandemic-dempanic.... and political clips... under the heading of bullsh!t and politics.... that has constant references to different websites and articles about studies and doctors that are trying to get out information.....about the true situation with these "vaccines" that aren't.  I am not saying that everything is gospel truth either... but there are alot of references of places to go and articles to read so someone can make some more informed choices....and to give results from studies that have been done with using early intervention and treatments that you cannot find on most news sites.   Natural news also has tons of references of articles and such.  Some I do not give much stock to, but many cannot be found anywhere else and it is worth looking into.  
It took me 5 years to find a doctor I liked to do my ankle replacement..... and alot of referencing to decide on the one that is going to do my knee replacements.... So I do alot of "due diligence"  before I make decisions.  Same with my decision about the "vaccine" push.


----------



## Stephine

I am absolutely floored by the amount of blatant mis and disinformation being exchanged here. Truly dismayed. I don’t even know where to begin. Please get your information from reputable sources. On youtube and the internet anyone out there can post all kinds of nonsense. You don’t even know who they are. Ivermectin is not effective in treating or preventing Covid. It has been shown to be ineffective. If you hear of someone making a recovery after ivermectin it is coincidental. Ivermectin treats parasites not viruses... Gosh, there is just too much nonsense here to address one by one. You are being had if you listen to those conspiracy voices. Someone is having a good laugh at you and using you for their goals. All while making you feel that you are in on the big secret that the others and officials just don’t see or don’t want to see. They don’t see it or act on it because it’s not real. It’s complete bs. Oufff.


----------



## CLSranch

'C.O.V.I.D.' MASS MIND CONTROL (The Dark Truth)
					

======== (world orders review) ======== 'C.O.V.I.D.' MASS MIND CONTROL (The Dark Truth) https://www.bitchute.com/video/LtyWOmXweZy8/ [SHARE] ======== An excellent high quality piece, that all people should see. For many it could be one of the …




					www.bitchute.com
				



 A very long video but a great example of today's MSM.


----------



## farmerjan

Stephine said:


> I am absolutely floored by the amount of blatant mis and disinformation being exchanged here. Truly dismayed. I don’t even know where to begin. Please get your information from reputable sources. On youtube and the internet anyone out there can post all kinds of nonsense. You don’t even know who they are. Ivermectin is not effective in treating or preventing Covid. It has been shown to be ineffective. If you hear of someone making a recovery after ivermectin it is coincidental. Ivermectin treats parasites not viruses... Gosh, there is just too much nonsense here to address one by one. You are being had if you listen to those conspiracy voices. Someone is having a good laugh at you and using you for their goals. All while making you feel that you are in on the big secret that the others and officials just don’t see or don’t want to see. They don’t see it or act on it because it’s not real. It’s complete bs. Oufff.


I think that you are one that has not faced some of the truths and the studies.  You are being had with not at least looking at and doing due diligence on some of the studies that have shown beyond a doubt that things like ivermectin can be used OFF LABEL for treatment.... it is not just for parasites.  Hundreds of studies written in some of the most read medical journals are showing the effectiveness of different drugs used off label.

If everything that Fauci and the WHO said,  were right in the beginning... we would have had this virus licked, gone and over in the 2 weeks to shorten the curve claims they made.  They change their protocol every time it means causing more people to shudder and hunker down in place.  We would have gotten over the 2 week period and the virus would have died out.  But since they have not been able to come up with a "vaccine" that prevents the flu, why in he// would you believe that all of a sudden they have come up with a vaccine that prevents this... with a "new type of making it" that has killed all the animals,  in the all the tests that were ever done in the past.

Corona viruses have been around since the beginning of time.... we deal with them in the animal world all the time... and the "common flu"  that has different forms is a virus that the "vaccine" is a guess as to what variant is the most likely to occur... with a 40% or LESS effectiveness....

 It is a PROVEN fact over and over that the more sequestered you are from exposure to daily "germs", the more vulnerable you are to getting them when you are finally exposed.  The body has amazing resilience and has to build up it's own body of antibodies through exposure.  Some of that is through vaccines rather than outright exposure... But if you cannot even accept that there are over 58,000 doctors and medical researchers and such that have signed the Great Barrington letter.... and they all cannot be considered NON-REPUTABLE .... then you are the one that is being hookwinked.  Countless studies have shown ivermectin to be effective... using other treatments as well as bolstering the bodies own immune response is certainly more effective than getting a diagnosis and going home to wait til you are soooo sick that you go in the hospital to go on a ventilator and die. 

I KNOW of several people that have used these "alternative" medicines,  BY DOCTORS prescribing them, and gotten better in record time.  It is not all coincidence.  If you choose to not believe it that is your choice.  DO NOT  PUT PEOPLE DOWN and ridicule them as you are,  because they opt to take another approach .... it is not all nonsense.
One of the reasons for not going out full blast and yelling it from the rooftops is because we are constantly being  shut off.... censored.... so we go about it in more subtle ways so that the word can get out.
And we are not trying to muzzle people like you that are saying it is nonsense... totally opposite of that.  We are allowing any and everyone to say their piece.... there is no censorship from the believers in alternatives...YOU do your own research..... and make your own decision. 
This is about control as much as it is anything.... and it is apparent with the requirements of being vaccinated to hold jobs and all now.... What happens when the next variant comes along and the "original vaccine"  has no effect on it... now they are saying a third shot... then will it be monthly???? THAT PROVES IT IS NOT A VACCINE.....
Follow them if you want... I am not telling you that you can't or shouldn't.  But I have a brain, I can read studies, I have seen where I BELIEVE this is leading and I sure don't like this.  It is not my responsibility to protect you from you or from me...... I need to protect myself from you... it is your responsibility to protect yourself... If you believe the vaccine is the way to go, then good for you.  BUT don't discount without any merit,  my bodies' own immunity once I have gotten the disease and gotten over it.... that is probably the biggest thing that galls me.... NOT ONE of the medical "experts" will allow for any credence from doctors and other medical people saying that once you have gotten it, your body has as good or BETTER immune responses for future exposures.....

If it is all such hooey... why is the American Red Cross begging for blood donors who have had this virus, and NOT HAD THE VACCINE,  to come and give blood so that they can use the immune cells to create better transfusions.... he// they were paying blood donors to come and give blood here if their blood showed the immune cells....

And why, after all this time and all the censoring, did they finally quietly say that things like hydroxychloroquine  and ivermectin, were "okay" to use off label as treatments... after hundreds of thousands have died...

Why is it being poo-hooed about all the blood clots and the heart problems and paralysis and the adverse skin reactions....when the numbers already posted on the VAERS are FAR beyond what has had other drugs stopped in their tracks....and there still has not been  any long term studies that proves this is the best vaccine route ever.... except that  this mass vaccination of the human population is the biggest study ever.....

I wish you a long and healthy life... but DO NOT TELL ME THAT I AM BEING UNREASONABLE  because I want to question things that I do not believe are truth.  I am not hurting you,,, because according to the experts getting the vaccine is the way to protect yourself....but it is not proving effective... so how is that working out now....so if I chose not to get it and get sick, and cannot get the treatment that my doctor feels is in my best interest.... then that is actually on you for censoring and preventing my doctor from giving me what is their best opinion of treatment.

I don't believe in the religions that use snakes and such.... but hey, if that is your belief, then by all means go right ahead....I am not going to stop you even if I think you are crazy.....that is strictly my opinion.
So let those of us that believe that we are being denied the right to make our own choices;  to make our own choices... and let the science in the future prove who is right... and at the expense of untold numbers that were NOT ALLOWED to make their own choices.


----------



## Baymule

@Stephine i applaud your right to speak and to have your own opinion. My answer is not defensive nor am I angry. I have great respect for you and would never say or do anything to upset you. I’ve used ivermectin for years treating my animals. I am quite familiar with it. Just so you know, there are pills of ivermectin for people. Ivermectin has been used since the 1980’s in Africa for diseases there. It is being used to treat Covid in Africa and several South American countries. I have studied it extensively, I don’t watch YouTube videos. I read medical sites.

One of our dear friends got Covid very recently. His wife was extremely worried and called to tell us. Our friend “T” was sent home with antibiotics, got a shot of steroids and one of those breather things for asthma. He ran fever, coughed continuously, his ribs were sore from coughing so hard, and had no appetite. She was afraid T was going to die. I told her to go to the feed store for injectable ivermectin and put it in  a drink. No, I’m not going to give dosage on a forum, because I’m not a doctor. They were incredulous and called a pharmacist friend. He agreed and told them I was right. T started taking the ivermectin once a day, for 5 days just as the PHARMACIST said. T called me on day five. No fever, his appetite returned, his voice came back and NO COUGHING. Still weak, but gaining strength every day. He said I saved his life.

THIS WAS NOT COINCIDENCE.

Meanwhile a neighbor lady who got vaccinated has blood clots in her arms and legs, very painful. And her doctor? Told her to sit down with her feet up for two months and the blood clots should go away. I have a whole lot of ugly, angry words about her situation, but I can’t say them here. I went to town and bought Arnicare gel. It’s for pain, arthritis and reduces bruises. She used it last night and called me today. She was able to sleep all night and had no pain. Since it dissipates bruises, it may even help dissipate her blood clots. But I’m not a doctor and it’s a readily available OTC herbal tube of non patented medicine. So therefore it must not be any good.

Do your own research. Try the search engine DuckDuckGo, it is not censored like google is. Look up ivermectin for Covid. There is a whole protocol using immune enhancing minerals and vitamins, to give your body the building blocks it needs to fight off infection.

I am 66 years old, healthy, active and I take NO prescription drugs. Not knocking life saving drugs, I’m knocking the forever treatment for everything from constipation to watery eyes. It’s gotten ridiculous. I will not subject myself to guinea pig status and take a vaccine that outright killed people by the thousands right here in this country, and hit many more thousands upon thousands with side effects, some of them permanently.

I did my research. I did my due diligence. Then I made an informed decision. I didn’t make a decision based on Billy Bob’s cousin who talked to his brother in law who watched a YouTube video.

With nothing but kindness for you, don’t take my word for it. Dig for the truth.


----------



## Baymule

@Stephine here is a thought provoking article, thought you might be interested. Draw your own conclusions. Again I emphasize that i am not trying to blast you, hurt your feelings, I mean this with love in my heart and respect for you. 






						Zerohedge
					

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero




					www.zerohedge.com


----------



## CLSranch

farmerjan said:


> I think that you are one that has not faced some of the truths and the studies.  You are being had with not at least looking at and doing due diligence on some of the studies that have shown beyond a doubt that things like ivermectin can be used OFF LABEL for treatment.... it is not just for parasites.  Hundreds of studies written in some of the most read medical journals are showing the effectiveness of different drugs used off label.
> 
> If everything that Fauci and the WHO said,  were right in the beginning... we would have had this virus licked, gone and over in the 2 weeks to shorten the curve claims they made.  They change their protocol every time it means causing more people to shudder and hunker down in place.  We would have gotten over the 2 week period and the virus would have died out.  But since they have not been able to come up with a "vaccine" that prevents the flu, why in he// would you believe that all of a sudden they have come up with a vaccine that prevents this... with a "new type of making it" that has killed all the animals,  in the all the tests that were ever done in the past.
> 
> Corona viruses have been around since the beginning of time.... we deal with them in the animal world all the time... and the "common flu"  that has different forms is a virus that the "vaccine" is a guess as to what variant is the most likely to occur... with a 40% or LESS effectiveness....
> 
> It is a PROVEN fact over and over that the more sequestered you are from exposure to daily "germs", the more vulnerable you are to getting them when you are finally exposed.  The body has amazing resilience and has to build up it's own body of antibodies through exposure.  Some of that is through vaccines rather than outright exposure... But if you cannot even accept that there are over 58,000 doctors and medical researchers and such that have signed the Great Barrington letter.... and they all cannot be considered NON-REPUTABLE .... then you are the one that is being hookwinked.  Countless studies have shown ivermectin to be effective... using other treatments as well as bolstering the bodies own immune response is certainly more effective than getting a diagnosis and going home to wait til you are soooo sick that you go in the hospital to go on a ventilator and die.
> 
> I KNOW of several people that have used these "alternative" medicines,  BY DOCTORS prescribing them, and gotten better in record time.  It is not all coincidence.  If you choose to not believe it that is your choice.  DO NOT  PUT PEOPLE DOWN and ridicule them as you are,  because they opt to take another approach .... it is not all nonsense.
> One of the reasons for not going out full blast and yelling it from the rooftops is because we are constantly being  shut off.... censored.... so we go about it in more subtle ways so that the word can get out.
> And we are not trying to muzzle people like you that are saying it is nonsense... totally opposite of that.  We are allowing any and everyone to say their piece.... there is no censorship from the believers in alternatives...YOU do your own research..... and make your own decision.
> This is about control as much as it is anything.... and it is apparent with the requirements of being vaccinated to hold jobs and all now.... What happens when the next variant comes along and the "original vaccine"  has no effect on it... now they are saying a third shot... then will it be monthly???? THAT PROVES IT IS NOT A VACCINE.....
> Follow them if you want... I am not telling you that you can't or shouldn't.  But I have a brain, I can read studies, I have seen where I BELIEVE this is leading and I sure don't like this.  It is not my responsibility to protect you from you or from me...... I need to protect myself from you... it is your responsibility to protect yourself... If you believe the vaccine is the way to go, then good for you.  BUT don't discount without any merit,  my bodies' own immunity once I have gotten the disease and gotten over it.... that is probably the biggest thing that galls me.... NOT ONE of the medical "experts" will allow for any credence from doctors and other medical people saying that once you have gotten it, your body has as good or BETTER immune responses for future exposures.....
> 
> If it is all such hooey... why is the American Red Cross begging for blood donors who have had this virus, and NOT HAD THE VACCINE,  to come and give blood so that they can use the immune cells to create better transfusions.... he// they were paying blood donors to come and give blood here if their blood showed the immune cells....
> 
> And why, after all this time and all the censoring, did they finally quietly say that things like hydroxychloroquine  and ivermectin, were "okay" to use off label as treatments... after hundreds of thousands have died...
> 
> Why is it being poo-hooed about all the blood clots and the heart problems and paralysis and the adverse skin reactions....when the numbers already posted on the VAERS are FAR beyond what has had other drugs stopped in their tracks....and there still has not been  any long term studies that proves this is the best vaccine route ever.... except that  this mass vaccination of the human population is the biggest study ever.....
> 
> I wish you a long and healthy life... but DO NOT TELL ME THAT I AM BEING UNREASONABLE  because I want to question things that I do not believe are truth.  I am not hurting you,,, because according to the experts getting the vaccine is the way to protect yourself....but it is not proving effective... so how is that working out now....so if I chose not to get it and get sick, and cannot get the treatment that my doctor feels is in my best interest.... then that is actually on you for censoring and preventing my doctor from giving me what is their best opinion of treatment.
> 
> I don't believe in the religions that use snakes and such.... but hey, if that is your belief, then by all means go right ahead....I am not going to stop you even if I think you are crazy.....that is strictly my opinion.
> So let those of us that believe that we are being denied the right to make our own choices;  to make our own choices... and let the science in the future prove who is right... and at the expense of untold numbers that were NOT ALLOWED to make their own choices.





Baymule said:


> @Stephine i applaud your right to speak and to have your own opinion. My answer is not defensive nor am I angry. I have great respect for you and would never say or do anything to upset you. I’ve used ivermectin for years treating my animals. I am quite familiar with it. Just so you know, there are pills of ivermectin for people. Ivermectin has been used since the 1980’s in Africa for diseases there. It is being used to treat Covid in Africa and several South American countries. I have studied it extensively, I don’t watch YouTube videos. I read medical sites.
> 
> One of our dear friends got Covid very recently. His wife was extremely worried and called to tell us. Our friend “T” was sent home with antibiotics, got a shot of steroids and one of those breather things for asthma. He ran fever, coughed continuously, his ribs were sore from coughing so hard, and had no appetite. She was afraid T was going to die. I told her to go to the feed store for injectable ivermectin and put it in  a drink. No, I’m not going to give dosage on a forum, because I’m not a doctor. They were incredulous and called a pharmacist friend. He agreed and told them I was right. T started taking the ivermectin once a day, for 5 days just as the PHARMACIST said. T called me on day five. No fever, his appetite returned, his voice came back and NO COUGHING. Still weak, but gaining strength every day. He said I saved his life.
> 
> THIS WAS NOT COINCIDENCE.
> 
> Meanwhile a neighbor lady who got vaccinated has blood clots in her arms and legs, very painful. And her doctor? Told her to sit down with her feet up for two months and the blood clots should go away. I have a whole lot of ugly, angry words about her situation, but I can’t say them here. I went to town and bought Arnicare gel. It’s for pain, arthritis and reduces bruises. She used it last night and called me today. She was able to sleep all night and had no pain. Since it dissipates bruises, it may even help dissipate her blood clots. But I’m not a doctor and it’s a readily available OTC herbal tube of non patented medicine. So therefore it must not be any good.
> 
> Do your own research. Try the search engine DuckDuckGo, it is not censored like google is. Look up ivermectin for Covid. There is a whole protocol using immune enhancing minerals and vitamins, to give your body the building blocks it needs to fight off infection.
> 
> I am 66 years old, healthy, active and I take NO prescription drugs. Not knocking life saving drugs, I’m knocking the forever treatment for everything from constipation to watery eyes. It’s gotten ridiculous. I will not subject myself to guinea pig status and take a vaccine that outright killed people by the thousands right here in this country, and hit many more thousands upon thousands with side effects, some of them permanently.
> 
> I did my research. I did my due diligence. Then I made an informed decision. I didn’t make a decision based on Billy Bob’s cousin who talked to his brother in law who watched a YouTube video.
> 
> With nothing but kindness for you, don’t take my word for it. Dig for the truth.


I must say that the best "I" could've said is this is a thread for like minded people. If your beliefs are different then read this and come up with your own conclusion. AND stay off of this one.

I am not a good speaker. Really not good to those who don't want to listen to me in the 1st place.

 I also think this is the problem with most conservatives. If you don't like it then do it your way and leave me alone, (me yea me) while the rest of the world is jumping up and down degrading and throwing fits about ANY little thing that doesn't "APEASE" them. Even going as far as protesting or whatever tantrum they throw.


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## Baymule

Wow........ just wow. This is a long read with quite a few parts, but well worth the read.









						“Doctors story of Light and Life: the Covid-19 Darkness Overcome”   Part I
					

Our battle for truth, our patients, and the world and against dishonesty, incompetence, conflicts of interest and inhumanity.




					www.thedesertreview.com


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## promiseacres

Baymule said:


> Wow........ just wow. This is a long read with quite a few parts, but well worth the read.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “Doctors story of Light and Life: the Covid-19 Darkness Overcome”   Part I
> 
> 
> Our battle for truth, our patients, and the world and against dishonesty, incompetence, conflicts of interest and inhumanity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedesertreview.com


Thanks for sharing.


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## Larsen Poultry Ranch

My hospital sent out new guidelines, persons (currently two allowed) accompanying a laboring mother must provide either a vaccine card or negative covid test from within 2 days. How are we supposed to get a test within 2 days prior?? Don't they know this kid will come when he decides to arrive? Do we just have my hubby take a test every two days for a couple weeks on end?? Grr this is frustrating.


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## Beekissed

Jottacloud
					






					www.jottacloud.com


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## henless

@Baymule - Thanks for the links. Off label use of meds has been going on for a long time. I just don't understand why treatments are not used to treat the disease. I do know why, money & agenda, but I still don't understand it. 

@Beekissed - Good video. I hope it makes people think for themselves, and not just blindly follow.  
(I've missed your postings!)

Sorry what you are having to go through Larsen. This should be a wonderful time for both of you. Instead, you're having to deal with all this crap.


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## Nifty

We've closed this thread due to a lot of issues, reports, etc., and are evaluating the pros / cons to our community in leaving it open. 

(note: if there was a way to leave it open without there being any reports, we'd be way more inclined to let peeps discuss stuff civilly and respectfully... but we don't have the time and resources to constantly moderate a thread that is causing a lot of stress and problems)


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## Nifty

While we try to figure out the best way to proceed, we encourage peeps that want to continue to discuss this hot and divisive topic, to do so in private conversations.


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