# Is a LGD good for me?



## BlondeSquirrel04 (Jul 22, 2012)

OK, here it goes...

We have a small, about 2 acre area for our goats, llama, alpacas and poultry to share. It is lined with 4-7 strand electric fencing. The birds free range during the day and do go out past the fence on two sides of the property. 

In the past year and a half, we've lost maybe 20 birds to predators. Some were chicks with their mom, and some were full grown birds including a tom turkey (Royal Palm, about 15lbs) who was killed most recently. He did not have a left eye, so he was kind of easy to grab. But anyway, we were thinking of an LGD to protect the flock. Now, onto my concerns:

1. We have 5 inside rescue dogs. I'm a BIG advocate of adopting rather than breeding. I do understand the need for breeders of working dogs, because they are for a purpose not just a "I want a doggie-poo because they're so cute and I can dress it up!" How can I possibly justify buying a breeder dog?

2. The neighbors have a GSD that they let out without a fence. Granted, he is never out unless they are and he went through the fence once when he was a pup and NEVER again. He learned quick. They have a long driveway surrounded by woods so most times that he goes out, he is still far away from the animals and the fence. Will the LGD learn to accept that he is not a threat?

3. Would a LGD be able to guard the poultry that walks out of the fence? When they do, they are only 10-15 feet away. Would a fox still be bold enough to take them, even with the dog present?

4. Most importantly, I would need to ensure that the dog did not see humans as a threat. What breeds are less likely to display human aggression?

So, do you think that this is a good solution? I do not want to confine my birds to a coop when they've never been cooped up their whole lives. Plus, there are so many predators here, that I don't trust that we can build a coop that is 100% predator proof. A very poultry savvy friend of mine lost 30 birds in a one hour window one day because something got into her coop. That terrifies me.

If a LGD is not a good idea, I think I will just have to sell all my birds which I desperately do not want to do.


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## Grazer (Jul 22, 2012)

I'll try to answer your questions the best I can.


Two acres is kinda small for all these animals plus a large flock guardian dog. It can be done of course, but I'm just saying it might get crowdy.


1. as the future LGD matures, you might get a lot of conflict between your territorial LGD and your rescue dogs. 
I'm also all for adopting when possible but at the same time I think working dogs that are bred for a purpose are very important. And in the end responsible breeders & responsible owners have nothing to do with the overcrowded animal shelters.

2. Probably not....again as the LGD matures he/she'll become more and more territorial and much less accepting of strange dogs. You could extensively socialize their GSD with your future puppy, make sure all their encounters are positive, but that's not a guarantee that the LGD will tolerate their GSD around your farm.

3. With any LGD breed you will want to have a fence they can't escape from. Many LGD breeds tend to roam, scan the area for predators, mark their territory etc.. So again you will want to have a minimum of a 6ft sturdy fence.

4. From all LGD breeds, Great Pyrenees tend to be in general the least human aggressive. That's not to say that they won't guard your house or bark at strangers.

Also keep in mind that for the first 2 years of your LGD's life you will have to be very, very consistent with correction and rewards. 
Your future LGD can not be allowed to be around your poultry (or your other livestock for that matter) unsupervised until it's fully trained, which again takes at least 18 months of consistent training. 
So you'll have to have a secure place where you can pen him/her close to the livestock but without him/her being able to harm them when you're not around.
There will be a lot of trial and error and your pup might still end up killing some of your birds..So you'll have to be on top of your game all the time.


If you do decide to get an LGD, then make sure you get a puppy from working parents bred by experienced breeders only. It will be much easier for you if the parents of your future puppy are already good poultry guardians.
And wait with getting the puppy until the pup is about 10 weeks old. Because the pup will copy his/hers mother behavior and be more stable if they stay those couple of extra weeks with their litter.
I say this from what I've observed over the years.


This link is very helpful for anyone who has LGD for their poultry (I got it from another BYH member): http://www.anatoliandog.org/poultry.htm


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## ksalvagno (Jul 22, 2012)

Unless the LGD can get outside the fence, it will not be able to protect anything that leaves the fenced in area. So if your chickens leave the fenced in area, the LGD will not be any type of protection for them.


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## GriffinRidgeFarm (Jul 22, 2012)

BlondeSquirrel04 said:
			
		

> OK, here it goes...
> 
> We have a small, about 2 acre area for our goats, llama, alpacas and poultry to share. It is lined with 4-7 strand electric fencing. The birds free range during the day and do go out past the fence on two sides of the property.
> *We have 1.7 acres and we have a LGD.*
> ...


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (Aug 1, 2012)

Thanks for the responses thus far.

I'm still weighing my options and am not sure what to do.

For the LGD owners, does your dog sleep in the barn with the livestock, or does he/she have their own dog house/kennel to go in?

Are there any links/books that I should read that would help me make a decision?


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## secuono (Aug 1, 2012)

No point in a dog if it cannot follow the birds out. 

The LGD should always be with the livestock, live as if it is a sheep or a chicken. 


"How can I possibly justify buying a breeder dog?"
A LGD is NOT a fancy poodle, you need to get a real, working dog/puppy. This is totally different from a "pet", it's a working dog. 



Have you tried to fence in the chickens?? Are they flying over or just walking?
Add extra wire on those two sides so they cannot physically pass through?
I have seen one farm of barbed wire, they added 2 vertical wires so no animals could just stretch and pas through, like some horses can do. 
I've done the same on my electric fence. My open side, that is just wire, I added vertical strands to make it semi-woven. 

If there are trees and other things that act as cover on those two sides of the fence, can you remove them or trim them up? Chickens don't like to wander in open spaces that much. They prefer to stay close to cover as much as possible. Mine never go towards the open wire, since there are no trees and just open pasture on a hill. Just not safe or smart for them.


If the neighbor animals do not stalk, challenge, bark or attack the LGD's charges, then he shouldn't mind them too much. Especially if he has grown up with them.


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## RemudaOne (Aug 1, 2012)

IMO, the LGD should be "sleeping" with whatever livestock it is supposed to be guarding..... Usually the LGDs will sleep more during the day and then patrol at night when predators are more likely to visit. My two LGDs are 24/7 with the sheep.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Aug 2, 2012)

Our cows have electric fence, our chickens and turkeys a run (2 separate) and pigs in their own space.  Our LGD's are able to and freely do roam all around our entire property.  So around the penned animals and can go freely in and out of the cow pasture.  They sleep outside.  So they pick where they want to sleep.  They do alot of moving around at night and are not often in the same place in the morning at 4:30am when we get up.  They have access to a barn, and other shelters if they decide they don't want to sleep under the stars.  

I have to agree with secuono.  If the dog can't go as far as the livestock it is suppossed to be protecting, you may have issues.  I'll just give you an possible example.  Your chickens go out past the fence that you think the LGD can't get past.  He knows that these chickens are his to guard.  A predator comes.  He smells it, maybe sees it.  He barks and barks as a warning. If the predator decides to continue and comes for the chickens and is within sight of the LGD.  What will the LGD do?  Maybe run and scale your fence.  Maybe run and break through your fence, possibly allowing your other animals to escape.  Maybe go crazy at the fence with no way to help the animals he is in charge of guarding.  None of those really sound ideal to me.  Will it happen?  Maybe not but certainly is possible. 

I'm sure you will make the right choice for your situation when the time comes.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Aug 2, 2012)

*Sounds to me like you guys need a good tall fence before anything else. *


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## L&L Ranch (Aug 5, 2012)

okay first off all  dogs are going to bark at strangers second i recommend a great pyrenees for one they are bred to guard sheep/goats and other animals plus the rescued dogs will probably not try to stand up to him/she  i have a rott that is a 3 yr old and is scared of my neighbor's male  great pyrenees usually my dog will roll over and piss his self accept for once when my neighbors dog came in to my dogs territory they fought for about a minute or two then it was over also i suggest a donkey or a mini donkey to gaurd the livestock but the alpaca's should do that


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (Aug 6, 2012)

Alpacas aren't guardians. Most times they need a guardian for themselves. We don't have any coyotes here, so I'm not worried about them. Donkeys can be very territorial with new goat kids and have been known to kill them. I always get a 50/50 response with people and their donkeys. Half are fine, and half kill. Too steep a chance to take.

No losses since the original post. Keep your fingers crossed. I hope whatever it was choked on a chicken bone and died. Hey, a girl can dream, right?


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