# Please Help!! Weanlings not eating feed



## thelodens (Dec 1, 2010)

I bought my kids two boer cross show whethers to show in 4H this upcoming March. These boys are both four months old and were just pulled from their moms the day we bought them. They had never ate grain or feed, only milk from mom and grass/browse. They have been eating a really great quality grass hay, but they will not touch their feed. We've had them for almost three weeks now, and we've tried different feeds, different textures, adding molasses, and powdered milk so far trying to entice them to eat, but they just will not eat the feed. One breeder in our area suggested taking the hay away for a day or two and not giving them the option to choose. At our wits end, we tried that and it didn't work either, they just didn't eat! I'm at a loss, these boys are in no way going to make it to show market whether condition by March if they don't start eating their feed! Can anyone suggest anything that we can try?? 
Thanks so much,
Terra


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 1, 2010)

Are they eating the hay well and maintaining good condition?


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## ()relics (Dec 1, 2010)

I wouldn't be feeding them any hay at all if I was preparing them for a show.  A 'rumeny" wether will be at the bottom of any class.  Good bet they are filling up on hay and not in need of the feed ration to support themselves....Problem being hay won't make a show wether...Try cutting all the hay and go strictly to a GOOD show wether pellet.  Something with decox or monensin to keep a handle on possible coccidiosis problems...JMO...


Let me add...I would ONLY feed a pelleted ration.  ONLY offer it.  Nothing else.  When they start to get hungry they will search around for something to eat.  They will find the pellets and your problems will be over.  Everyday even before they start eating the pellets, pour some pellets into the feeder, even if there is still some left.  They will see you messing around with the feeder and check it out...probably then finding the feed.


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## thelodens (Dec 1, 2010)

@ smithurmond, they are eating the hay good, but they are not keeping their body condition on that.

@ relics, I agree, there's no way they will be ready or even halfway showable on the hay. I will go take their hay away now and just offer them fresh feed everyday. I had bought a good commercial show quality pelleted feed that the mill closeby makes and it does have the decox (sp?) med in it. I hope they take the hint, otherwise, it's going to be a lot of $$ and heartache for nothing.

Thanks,
Terra


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 1, 2010)

It's interesting to hear some of the differences in raising dairy and meat breeds!


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## helmstead (Dec 1, 2010)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> It's interesting to hear some of the differences in raising dairy and meat breeds!


'tis!


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## ()relics (Dec 1, 2010)

wethers age?  weight?  fat and protein content of your "show ration"?  days til show date?  expected/ideal show weight animals structure taken into account?


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## thelodens (Dec 1, 2010)

> wethers age?  weight?  fat and protein content of your "show ration"?  days til show date?  expected/ideal show weight animals structure taken into account?


The boys are both around four months old. I am "guestemating" their weight at around 40-45 pounds, I can still pick them up, but they are almost like carrying a fifty pound sack of feed . I will have to get back to you on the fat content of the feed, but I know it's 15% protein. The county show starts on March 24th, so we have roughly four months to condition them for show. Our county doesn't have a lot of goat entries, maybe 10-15 last year, total with a few of those being dairy goats. I think there were 10 total market wethers, and those were broken down into three weight divisions. They have to be in between 60-115 pounds, or they will be sifted. This is our first go 'round with goats in the county show. I didn't go out and pay the big prices that some pay for show wethers, but I did educate myself on what a judge looks for structurally before going and picking out the boys. Our county requires all goats to be dehorned/disbudded, so there are not many who will go pay for an expensive one and have a vet dehorn it on top of that (because most boer breeders in our area do not disbud their bucklings). I don't know exactly what they should weigh at show time. 
I have a dairy doe that I've had for a year, that's about the extent of my knowledge with goats, lol. We are learning though, and I'm open to ALL of the helpful tips, knowledge, and sharing anyone wants to pass along!  We have a wonderful county extension agent who raises boer goats herself and is a wealth of information, which is wonderful when you have a question on a whim!


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## jhm47 (Dec 2, 2010)

I know very little about goats, but have extensive experience with sheep and cattle.  If they were my goats, I would not cut off their hay and switch them to a grain/pellet diet too quickly.  If you do, I suspect that you might be subjecting them to some very serious digestive upsets that may set them back for a long time.  JMHO, and good luck!


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## ()relics (Dec 2, 2010)

the only thing I might add is I would make sure you are feeding a wether specific feed.  They are formulated to avoid urinary calculi, probably have extra ammonium chloride added, to take into account the "very limited" amount of roughage they are eating.  I always look for 75# as a target show weight, but every goat is different and some may need more of less weight to look its best.  My daughter won a class this past year with a wether that only weighed 38#, the lightweight class obviously.  But he fell short against the bigger animals in the upper classes. I like to show wethers at heavier weights, but she was worried about controlling the wether, because her brother does all the before and after show work, so we went REALLY small, he looked and handled perfectly.   I would guess you could probably shoot for a .4-.5#adg, again depending on the specific animals genetics and structure, so lets say you have 100 days left, subtract 20 just to allow them to get on track.  .5# adg X 100 = 50#+ 50 you could be looking at a 100# wether...again that is figuring .5....best would be to get the boys started on their new ration for maybe a month then reweigh them...allowing you to recalculate their adg.  Then project their weight to the show date and you will have a guess what they will show at...again you will have to determine the ability of your animal and adjust your ration to try to hit your target weight.  Give them alot of excerise to harden their muscle layer, work with them on a lead, and you may have a winner.
As I said before, make sure they get the idea of eating only pellets.  If they aren't figuring it out, put a handful of hay in the feeder.  They already know what that is so they will eat.  Eventually they will figure out the other stuff is good too....jmo...just included the picture to show you exactll what a 38# wether looks like in the show ring.  He is the solid red. These are the top 3wethers, left to right, in the lightweight division at our fair.  We had 117 meat wethers entered.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 2, 2010)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> It's interesting to hear some of the differences in raising dairy and meat breeds!


I'd change that to "the differences in raising show goats and non-show" goats.  IMO, not feeding any hay is a disaster waiting to happen, and certainly not what goats are meant to eat.  :/

Although, it's possible that the show wether feeds are "complete" feeds, meaning they have forage in them. I'm not familiar enough with them. Even still, goats need long fiber forage for optimum gut health.  When I showed market lambs we'd just reduce the amount of hay a day or two before the show, and not feed hay the day of the show (until after the show).  You'll notice many show animals are muzzled in their pens at shows because they try to eat the bedding (straw or shavings) to get some roughage.


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## ()relics (Dec 2, 2010)

When you feed a show wether you DO NOT want him to EVER develop a rumen....Feeding ANY roughage encourages rumen activity, or rumen growth.  Any wether shown with ANY belly or "rumeny" look is automatically knocked down in the class.  Obviously show animals are raised on a diet Completely different than any other animal.  Anything else would be encouraged to develop their rumens early so they "work" properly....Just not Show Wethers.  The normal ratio would be 4 to 1 roughage to feed ration, show wethers would be 0 to 1... roughage to ration....but to each his own...Feed Hay and see what you get come show time.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 2, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> When you feed a show wether you DO NOT want him to EVER develop a rumen....Feeding ANY roughage encourages rumen activity, or rumen growth.  Any wether shown with ANY belly or "rumeny" look is automatically knocked down in the class.  Obviously show animals are raised on a diet Completely different than any other animal.  Anything else would be encouraged to develop their rumens early so they "work" properly....Just not Show Wethers.  The normal ratio would be 4 to 1 roughage to feed ration, show wethers would be 0 to 1... roughage to ration....but to each his own...Feed Hay and see what you get come show time.


Is this because they're basically terminal anyway?  I suppose long-term isn't as much of a concern for something that will be on the dinner table soon.  Or are bucks/does fed the same way?


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## ()relics (Dec 2, 2010)

the judge wants to feel a long lean solid animal...not a fat big bellied animal...muscle means a lean carcass with a high lean to fat ration....fat belly means extra weight with no extra meat...no meat in the belly...making the carcass a lower lean to fat ration...Right or Wrong...and yes a wether is fed as a terminal animal, the show date being the end date, with the animal being 4-8 months old...No need for a rumen because you won't be bringing them home to feed the rest of its life....Every show/judge is different, to get the trends look at show results on line for Jackpot shows or sanctioned show...Bet you don't see any wethers with a belly


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## jodief100 (Dec 2, 2010)

So in these shows the Ideal goat is one who is in the unnatural state of having no rumen.  I understand why they want a high lean to fat ration but I am troubled by this concept.  Not criticizing, mind you but it does bother me.  I know it is a terminal animal but still. I find it a little disturbing.  

Oh well, there are more important things to worry about and to each his own I guess.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 2, 2010)

I'm curious though, does a normal rumen just give the appearance of a less desirable lean to fat ration because they can't see/feel the muscling underneath and can't tell if it's fat or is the carcass actually affected at slaughter?  It seems like (and I could be totally wrong about this because I have NO experience with meat goats  ) once the animal was slaughtered and the big healthy rumen was removed the carcass would be the same between a wether fed roughage and concentrate and one just fed concentrate in terms of the ratio?  Maybe just a lower weight to meat ratio and slower growth?

I'm not suggesting at all that anyone does it differently than they do, just curious about the mechanics of it.


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## ()relics (Dec 2, 2010)

I don't make the show rules because if I did we would win all the shows...The only reason is based purely on appearance.  A wether with a fat belly "looks" fat.  A well muscled tight wether "looks" leaner...The key word is Looks.  Wethers are sold based on live weight.  A giant rumen or fat belly adds to the live weight of the animal which then after killing is immediately lost.  Meat goats are "supposed" to be bred and raised to have a very High carcass yield...Besides wethers are shown slick shaved.  Have you ever seen a slick shaved wether with a really fat belly?  they look horrible...Basically, as with any show animal, you have to "produce" what the buyers/judges are looking for the day of the show.  Fads or trends change...And if you want to compete you have to follow the current "accepted standard"...whatever that may be and whether or not you agree with it....


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## ()relics (Dec 2, 2010)

...adding this...To honestly feed a wether for a show is VERY COSTLY.  If you win or place well you may recoup some/most of your expenses.  I always find it slightly funny when someone attaches the  "show prospect" label to one of their wethers, either for sale or that they are keeping.  A show prospect needs to be carefully selected because they eat just as much as a "not a show prospect" wether.  No matter how much feed some wethers eat and no matter how expensively they are maintained, some never turn into anything but Fat fixed Boy Market Goats...I have lots of boy kids on the ground every year...Few are actually "show prospects"...So explaining to anyone how exactly to feed a wether that they have bought as a show prospect is a touchy deal...Sometimes they are best left with their mothers on the pasture until market....jmo


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 2, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> I don't make the show rules because if I did we would win all the shows...The only reason is based purely on appearance.  A wether with a fat belly "looks" fat.


Ok, that's what I was thinking.  Thanks for the info!


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 3, 2010)

This is one of the reasons I don't show club lambs any longer. I grew up in 4-H and had GC market animals most years I showed, BUT I fed how I wanted to feed and still did well.  This was years ago before the trend in the showring went to tubey-giraffe necked ballerina* lambs with "inny" docks.  I'm sorry, but any judge that can't properly judge a lamb with a 2" tail needs to stop judging.  Any practice that is so totally unnatural that they have to do things like drench the animal with crazy concoctions to keep it hydrated and give it "bloom" before the show is ridiculous.  Club lambs would waste away and die if you put them on a pasture, and sheep are meant to eat pasture.  It's so totally ridiculous.  The point of market shows is to show the meatiest animal, but it's gotten to the point that any real-world sheep farmer selling lamb and making a living would not dare touch any sheep with club genetics.

Most of my experience is obviously with sheep, but it's the same concept with goats. I'm sorry, but goats have rumens! They're meant to use them!  It's really sad when the show world and the "real" production world are so far removed from each other we have to manage the two groups totally seperately.  

This is not meant to bash anyone at all, it's just my own opinion about the show world in general, not any individual person. 

*ballerina lamb- my term for those lambs with loooooong legs  and tiny bodies.


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## Roll farms (Dec 3, 2010)

I have to say I agree.

The goats being born now w/ mile-long necks would never survive in the wild, one good round of head butting by a short necked goat and they'd end up w/ a broken neck.

Come to think of it....my black doe who was killed that way this summer....had a long-ish neck.  Hmmmm.

It's a good thing they're considered terminal, they'd never survive in / on a pasture.

I prefer when my Boer / Boer x kids are show in "market" classes, instead of "breed" classes.   More leeway, less emphasis on "beauty".

BUT...to ea. his own...and I know some fancy boer breeders do well selling those types of kids for shows.


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## helmstead (Dec 3, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> This is one of the reasons I don't show club lambs any longer. I grew up in 4-H and had GC market animals most years I showed, BUT I fed how I wanted to feed and still did well.  This was years ago before the trend in the showring went to tubey-giraffe necked ballerina* lambs with "inny" docks.  I'm sorry, but any judge that can't properly judge a lamb with a 2" tail needs to stop judging.  Any practice that is so totally unnatural that they have to do things like drench the animal with crazy concoctions to keep it hydrated and give it "bloom" before the show is ridiculous.  Club lambs would waste away and die if you put them on a pasture, and sheep are meant to eat pasture.  It's so totally ridiculous.  The point of market shows is to show the meatiest animal, but it's gotten to the point that any real-world sheep farmer selling lamb and making a living would not dare touch any sheep with club genetics.
> 
> Most of my experience is obviously with sheep, but it's the same concept with goats. I'm sorry, but goats have rumens! They're meant to use them!  It's really sad when the show world and the "real" production world are so far removed from each other we have to manage the two groups totally seperately.
> 
> ...




My show goats eat just the same as my production goats.  While I understand there's a difference in meat and dairy...this idea of feeding a ruminant like that makes me ill.

And, sorry...you don't HAVE to go with the trend.  If all of the sudden, Nigerian Dwarf judges started looking for some perversion of the goat as it's intended, I guess I'd switch to milk tests to avoid having to conform to the trend until the trend had passed.  Same with showing HUS horses like those dead to the world WP horses.  Just change venues til the trend become untrendy.

The NDGA National Grand Champion Wether this year...(and yes, they're also judged on condition) was fed a diet of...HAY...with a little grain supplement.  He isn't fat or overly rumen-y...


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 3, 2010)

How are the goats who are expected to survive (bucks/does) fed?  

I work with dogs for a living and that has been an overarching experience: breeders who show and breed for conformation/type ALONE have bred the function and health right out of their respective breeds.  That's NOT meant to include ALL breeders who try to breed to the standard, just those who prioritize type over health, temperament, and the ability to function like a normal dog, let alone one that actually works.


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## ()relics (Dec 3, 2010)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> How are the goats who are expected to survive (bucks/does) fed?
> 
> I work with dogs for a living and that has been an overarching experience: breeders who show and breed for conformation/type ALONE have bred the function and health right out of their respective breeds.  That's NOT meant to include ALL breeders who try to breed to the standard, just those who prioritize type over health, temperament, and the ability to function like a normal dog, let alone one that actually works.


Exactly why "show goat breeders" have a replacement line and a wether line.  Anything from the wether line that falls under thier standards are simply a market goat.  Same goes for buying a "show prospect wether" from a big named breeder.  Their replacement lines don't necessarily make good show wethers.  Alot of the "show prospect" wethers sold by a breeder are really just wethers from lines that they won't show themselves but need to get rid of them....So they hold a production sale and sell them to 4H kids , knowing that the wether will never turn into anything but a market goat....again inexperienced buyers Beware.  Anyone that has ever shown ANYTHING knows that show animals are not, sometimes, the best representitive of the particular breed, from a production standpoint...BUT if you are intent upon showing and pay a big price  for a wether,then you might as well set yourself up to win....JMO...


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## jodief100 (Dec 3, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> This is one of the reasons I don't show club lambs any longer. I grew up in 4-H and had GC market animals most years I showed, BUT I fed how I wanted to feed and still did well.  This was years ago before the trend in the showring went to tubey-giraffe necked ballerina* lambs with "inny" docks.  I'm sorry, but any judge that can't properly judge a lamb with a 2" tail needs to stop judging.  Any practice that is so totally unnatural that they have to do things like drench the animal with crazy concoctions to keep it hydrated and give it "bloom" before the show is ridiculous.  Club lambs would waste away and die if you put them on a pasture, and sheep are meant to eat pasture.  It's so totally ridiculous.  The point of market shows is to show the meatiest animal, but it's gotten to the point that any real-world sheep farmer selling lamb and making a living would not dare touch any sheep with club genetics.
> 
> Most of my experience is obviously with sheep, but it's the same concept with goats. I'm sorry, but goats have rumens! They're meant to use them!  It's really sad when the show world and the "real" production world are so far removed from each other we have to manage the two groups totally seperately.
> 
> ...


I am with you!  That is what I was trying to say.  It is prevalent in all show animals.  Bird dogs who cant point, Huskys who could never pull a sled, Doxies who have no prey drive, dogs who had to be surgically altered to meet the breed standard - all considered excellent breed examples.  I got out of cat shows when they decided polydactyl Maine Coons were ineligible because they had a mutation!  How do people think all of these breeds developed independent characteristics?  Mutations!  My poly Coons are the best mousers.  Those big paws are an advantage and should be selected for- not against.  

I am not criticizing those who show these animals and feed their goats to produce unnatural animals.  They are just playing by the rules of the game.  

I just wish that those who made the rules would consider what they animal is supposed to be and how it is supposed to perform when determining the standard.


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## ()relics (Dec 3, 2010)

...the worst part about the current "boer goat trends" is the doe lines are being dragged by the wether requirements.  Used to be that does looked almost like a different breed of goat, but lately I have noticed they are looking more and more like wethers...Big, long lean,no body fat meaning a lower body score meaning less able to support kidding then lactation...Our does live in the pasture with the rest of the herd.  We bring them in and clean them up then its off to show them...Now the trends are moving towards does that don't live in the pasture, that eat pelleted feed, and are confined like a wether, so they grow faster and bigger.  So natrually our does cannot compete with "show does"...but my does have kids and we aren't going to change that...Side note...I do have an fb doeling from this year's crop seperated and am going to _try_ to bring her up in weight and size quicker to get her into a younger class but look like an older animal...I am going to TRY...if I decide she is suffering, in any way, I will pull her out and she will go back to live with the rest of the new doelings.  My son lost a class last year because the judge said his doe didn't have enough depth for her age...really because she wasn't a $3000 doe...Not this time...This little girl will be a statement, first and last....Now it appears I have folded to pressure of my peers.


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## jodief100 (Dec 3, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> ...the worst part about the current "boer goat trends" is the doe lines are being dragged by the wether requirements.  Used to be that does looked almost like a different breed of goat, but lately I have noticed they are looking more and more like wethers...Big, long lean,no body fat meaning a lower body score meaning less able to support kidding then lactation...Our does live in the pasture with the rest of the herd.  We bring them in and clean them up then its off to show them...Now the trends are moving towards does that don't live in the pasture, that eat pelleted feed, and are confined like a wether, so they grow faster and bigger.  So natrually our does cannot compete with "show does"...but my does have kids and we aren't going to change that...Side note...I do have an fb doeling from this year's crop seperated and am going to _try_ to bring her up in weight and size quicker to get her into a younger class but look like an older animal...I am going to TRY...if I decide she is suffering, in any way, I will pull her out and she will go back to live with the rest of the new doelings.  My son lost a class last year because the judge said his doe didn't have enough depth for her age...really because she wasn't a $3000 doe...Not this time...This little girl will be a statement, first and last....Now it appears I have folded to pressure of my peers.


You have to pay the bills.... so you play the game.  I support you 100%.  

That is why I stick with a market herd.  I sell a few for 4-H kids now and then but 95% of my kids go to someone's table.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 3, 2010)

Unfortunately, sometimes you have to play the game. I stopped showing alpacas because I didn't like the trend that was winning in the show ring (not to mention the rising costs of showing). But I also reduced my herd drastically and don't have to worry about major sales to keep a large herd going.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 3, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> ...the worst part about the current "boer goat trends" is the doe lines are being dragged by the wether requirements.  Used to be that does looked almost like a different breed of goat, but lately I have noticed they are looking more and more like wethers...Big, long lean,no body fat meaning a lower body score meaning less able to support kidding then lactation...Our does live in the pasture with the rest of the herd.  We bring them in and clean them up then its off to show them...Now the trends are moving towards does that don't live in the pasture, that eat pelleted feed, and are confined like a wether, so they grow faster and bigger.


Sounds expensive!


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## thelodens (Dec 9, 2010)

Okay, they've had no hay for over a week now... when are they suppose to start eating their feed???? Because they have not touched it and it's getting ridiculous! These boys are now trying to eat our clothing when we go in their little pen with them, but they WILL NOT TOUCH THAT FEED. We've tried a sweet feed and the pellets, nothing is working and they are dropping weight and what condition they did have. This is horrible to watch these boys wasting away, I'm fixing to just go ahead and feed them whatever hay they will eat, get some weight back on them and just sell them and cut my losses.... My dairy babies that are three weeks old eat feed better than these boys!


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## ()relics (Dec 9, 2010)

not knowing the feed or the feeding situation the only thing I could suggest is grind up hay, with your hands, into small fines.  Put the fines in the feeder over the feed ration.  They need to understand that the feeder is the Food Place.  Hopefully they will eat the crushed up hay and continue with the ration.  Obviously you don't want them to drop so much condiion that they cannot recover....Kind of surprising they haven't started to scour...a week with  no feed would really stress them....maybe they are eating....generally after 2 days they eat anything and are more than happy to try the ration, that you should be pouring into the feeder daily, as they watch you.


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## thelodens (Dec 9, 2010)

I think they've been eating the leaves that are falling out of the trees around their pen (I have them in a small pen with a quarter of it being a three sided inclosed shed) The trees drop leaves around the pen and a few do make it in there. I also have shavings in their shed and maybe they are eating those??... who knows. We've been going in there several times a day, adding a handful of feed or replacing the feed (whichever is needed) in the feeder while they watch us, we also hold handfuls of it up to their mouths and as soon as they smell it they turn their noses. I've even tried prying their mouths open and stuffing a few pieces in their mouths hoping that they may taste it and think, hmm that's good.... but they act like we're trying to poison them! This is the craziest thing I've ever seen! I've talked with every goat raiser and goat educated person around my area and no one has ever heard of this happening and no one has any suggestions for me at this point. I'm thinking this is a lost cause and I should just feed them hay until they look a little better (I can feel their backbones and hip bones now, I wasn't able to when I bought them), and just sell them.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 10, 2010)

Is the feed fresh?


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## Roll farms (Dec 10, 2010)

If you can get some calf manna, you *might* try feeding them a small amount of that (don't overdo, they'll scour).

I've yet to see a critter who wouldn't snarf calf manna.

If they like it, try top dressing the feed you want them to eat w/ it.

TSC carries it in a small bag you could *try* it with....

Otherwise...


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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 10, 2010)

This is gonna sound strange..but have you tried putting in thier mouths?? That way they are forced to chew it or spit it out.  You may just have to show them its food Momma????  

Just a thought??  I give my guys raisins every once in a great while for a training or a hike in the woods.  So my new buck had no idea at all what  raisins were.  Although he was eating everything else. He kept turning away and turning his nose to it.  And Im thinking, maybe he just dos'nt like raisin.  I tell ya...I never meet a goat in my life that did'nt like raisins...but never say never, right!!  

So what I did was slip a raisin in the side of his cheek and he was like WOW    Is that what that is?     Now when I have em I swear he smells them in the bag in my pocket.  His nose goes instantly in my pocket when I have em..but he just did'nt know it to be food.  

It sounds silly...but maybe they just have no clue what you expect them to do with it.  Are they the only goats you have.  Do they see older goats eat from a trough????

Another thought is to show them...put the food in the trough and get down there and pretend your eating it!    LOL!!  But really..since they left thier Mom without being taught to eat feed...maybe the just need to be taught???  I dont know???  I would try anything at this point.  They must eat!!


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## thelodens (Dec 10, 2010)

I did try the stuffing in their mouths thing, for about fifteen minutes yesterday (and a few days before that too), but they just will not eat it, I actually had to put the pieces back in their mouths until it disolved to the point that they couldn't roll it back out with their tongues. 

I was at my wits end last night and tried giving them some Equine Senior, just to see if they would try it. This morning they had not touched it, but this evening it _looked_ like they may have eaten a little of it. I know I can't feed that to them, not on a regular basis anyway, so I went ahead and threw them some hay. The poor babies chomped louder with fuller mouths than the horses out in the pasture! They were so hungry. I don't know what to do, maybe just keep giving them hay and try to find something they will eat. They have lost weight and they don't need to loose any more.

I did try to put some kid milk replacer (powder) on their feed before (which that stuff is like a magnet to most anything), and they didn't want any part of it. 

I've tried on several occasions to get down on all fours and act like a goat (my kids really get a kick out of that), and of course I really make it sound like I'm just scarfing it up and its sooooooo good, lol! It did peak their intrest a few times, but they came over, smelt it, and turned their noses. 

I do have other goats and wondered if maybe that might work, other goats "teaching" them it's ok to eat. I will try that in the morning, I have a pygmy that I "inherited" from a family member and I'll put her in the pen with them tomorrow and let her show them the way. This little thing would eat anything in front of her I believe, she looks like she's 20 months pregnant with 15 kids... all fat! The girl likes to eat!  If she can't show them.... then there's really no hope I'm afraid.

We are suppose to go for validation tomorrow...


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 11, 2010)

thelodens said:
			
		

> I've tried on several occasions to get down on all fours and act like a goat (my kids really get a kick out of that), and of course I really make it sound like I'm just scarfing it up and its sooooooo good, lol! It did peak their intrest a few times, but they came over, smelt it, and turned their noses.
> 
> I do have other goats and wondered if maybe that might work, other goats "teaching" them it's ok to eat. I will try that in the morning, I have a pygmy that I "inherited" from a family member and I'll put her in the pen with them tomorrow and let her show them the way. This little thing would eat anything in front of her I believe, she looks like she's 20 months pregnant with 15 kids... all fat! The girl likes to eat!  If she can't show them.... then there's really no hope I'm afraid.


  I am not laughing at you, but with you.  No one could say there is a lack of effort on your part!

The bottle babies I had this past winter tough took some extra time to learn about browsing (vs. our dam raised kids).  They never had an issue with the concentrates, but when I turned them out to browse in Spring/Summer they didn't really "get it" until they had spent some time with the adults who knew exactly how to take advantage of fresh browse.  Our dam raised kids on the other hand were experts at the ripe old age of about 5 weeks.  It took them a while, but they did figure it out and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference at this point.  Maybe your pygmies will show them the way!

Sorry your experience has been so discouraging though. :/  Good luck!


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## thelodens (Dec 11, 2010)

I'm thinking I want a restart button for today..... 

Well, went for validation this morning and got the goaties ears tagged. Brought them back home, put them in their pen and tied them, so they'll get used to that idea . Remember that part... comes into play later. I went around to our other goat pen and my son helped catch the pygmy female I was talking about. Well, when we started walking her down to the other pen I noticed that she looks like she's making a bag on her, so I go to inspect this and I tried to "milk" her a little just to check.... MILK SHOT EVERYWHERE!!! Either this is immaculate goatie conception, or somebody LIED on this goat. I feel maybe one or two babies in there (like I said she's fat enough that she looks 20 months pg with 15 babies in there!) amongst all that fat, but she *IS* pg. My husbands' cousin (which is who she came from) said he had only had her a month, but the man he bought her from said she had not been exposed to a buck... ever! He (first owner) did however say that she had "broken out" of her pen a few times to visit their neighbors goats, so it is possible that she would have gotten bred while "visiting". Anyway, we'll have some half pygmy half ???? baby/babies sometime soon. Happy Happy Joy Joy 

 Another fun fact of the day (have I told anyone that my day is not going well?). When we bought these wethers for the kids to show in 4H, I did not question the man, I figured, he banded them... he knew they were all wethers/boys, right??? WRONG. While being tied to the fence earlier, I noticed one of our "boys" squating to pee and thought, that's not right.... so I go over, lift up the tail, and there's a little girl part.... hmmm, I thought.... hemorphodite? so I lift a leg, there's two little teats..... no boy parts of any kind.... Now, I know what everyone reading this is thinking.... how can you own these goats for a month and not know that one is a girl? Quite honestly, I figured there was no reason to look, and I've never paid that much attention anyway, they were sold to me as wethers!


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## Roll farms (Dec 11, 2010)

Don't feel too bad....I was asked to disbud / band a buck kid for some folks a few months ago.  
When "he" got here I explained it wouldn't be a good idea for me to band this "boy".  
When they asked why I told them it's awful hard to band imaginary nuggets....It's a DOE.

You coulda knocked them over w/ a feather...they'd had "him" for 2 weeks and thought it was a boy all along.  They didn't check so well, apparently...


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 11, 2010)

On the upside (sounds like you might need sight of the silver lining after a day like today...  ) you got a doe for the price of a market wether and a two-or-three-fer deal on your pygmy doe!


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## ()relics (Dec 11, 2010)

did you say you noticed after you had taken them to be weighed and ear tagged?  Strange how the people doing the weighing missed the fact that one of the "wethers" that they were weighing was a girl...or did I miss something?


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## thelodens (Dec 12, 2010)

They did not weigh them, just tag their ears. They really didn't look at them too close when they did that either. I think they just wrote down color and then tagged them. I'm going to call the county extension agent tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. The actual wether is the one that my son has chosen to show as his market goat, then both of my little girls (5 & 6 yrs old) with show one each in the open (pee wee) class (which, by what I gather as long as it's not a buck, they can show anything).


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## Emmetts Dairy (Dec 12, 2010)

thelodens said:
			
		

> They did not weigh them, just tag their ears. They really didn't look at them too close when they did that either. I think they just wrote down color and then tagged them. I'm going to call the county extension agent tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. The actual wether is the one that my son has chosen to show as his market goat, then both of my little girls (5 & 6 yrs old) with show one each in the open (pee wee) class (which, by what I gather as long as it's not a buck, they can show anything).


I believe thats correct...as long as its not a buck!!  

What a suprise!!  LOL!!! Thats funny!!!   Hope you day gets better!!


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## jodief100 (Dec 13, 2010)

I have to confess, I bought 4 does from a someone this year.  The entire herd was wild and I took about 2 hours picking out the 4 I wanted  and trying to catch them.  About 3 days after I got them home, I noticed one was a wether.  

That sucked- I paid doe prices for a wether.  It would have been worse except he begged me to take two bottle babies off his hands and gave them to me for free just to get rid of them.  I sold both the bottle baby boy and the wether for market prices but the bottle baby doe is growing up real nice.  

Almost worth it.


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