# Calves with a temp! HELP!



## neener92 (Dec 1, 2012)

I got two new calves about 3 days ago, they had about an hour and a half road trip. They are two weeks old. The dairy farm I got them from gave them a nasal spray for phenomena and shipping fever. They haven't really been drinking there bottles all that well and I don't know what to do! They both have a temp, one is 102.7 and the other is 104.5. I have LA 200 on hand.


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## heatherlynnky (Dec 1, 2012)

Maybe replying will give you a bump so someone sees this. I just had a calf that  came home and an hour later discovered she had the scours and by the next day was too weak to stand.  The 102 doesn't sound super elevated but the other is getting their. Mine had 105.8 which I was told by the vet is right at the border of pneumonia. Not sure what that link was but apparently when it gets to pneumonia the temp shoots up over that. Scary.  LA200 is what my vet suggested when my calf had mild scours and he was worried she might go toward pneumonia, but honestly I just used it to try to treat pneumonia till the vets office was back open and it did not have much of an effect. I think it kept things from getting worse but it definitely was not enough to nip anything in the bud.

Were these calves bottle fed before? how did they bottle fed them. I had one that was used to bucket that had a wicked time with the bottle but I had no clue on bucket feeding. i didn't even know that was an option on my first calf. It took several days before she caught on to the whole bottle thing. I have done this with a couple calves and with my goat bottle babies. I smeared the nipple with molassas. They like the taste ( nasty stuff) and its good for energy. I got that tip from my very helpful goat mentor and just carried it over to the calves. Hopefully someone else can pop on here with some advice soon. Good luck.


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

The calves had a shot of LA200 Saturday night, shot of nuflor Sunday morning, shot of baytril and two bolus pills Sunday night, two more bolus pills Monday evening, then they had another baytril shot yesterday (Tuesday). Poor babies! One calf has gooey looking greenish grey poo, and the other has a little more watery yellow poo....there was a clump of goo in the yellow poo. What does this goo mean? Is it bad or good? Yesterday both calves were getting up and drinking some water, today the one nibbled on some feed after her bottle, both calves are pretty wobbly. I've giving them some probios, I tried getting more from the feed store cause I used all of mine on them and the feed store was out! Their lungs sound good (to me).  Any suggestions of what else I could do?


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## redtailgal (Dec 5, 2012)

start them on some probios or yogurt

stop their milk for 24 hours. feed them just water or just electrolytes in the bottles for those 24 hours.  

That's a lot of medication and their digestive system is overloaded.  By with-holding food for 24 hours, you'll be able to give it a much needed rest.


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

Would any kinda of yogurt work?

You don't think stopping their milk for 24 hours will make them weaker? They are pretty weak and sunken in.

Yea, I figured that was a lot of meds, we went over what I had already given them with our vet (the LA200 and Nuflor) but he still said give them two more shots of Baytril and the 4 pills of bolus.


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## kenfromMaine (Dec 5, 2012)

You might have to tube feed them if they are not drinking much, they get dehydrated very fast. I also would with hold any milk for 24 hours. Keep them warm maybe even a heat lamp and out of the drafts. Not to discourage you but when they are that young and get stressed it is a challenge at the least to save them.  But you have to keep them hydrated. Also are you feeding them the same kind of milk re-placer as the farm they came from sometimes that will do it.  Also I would keep them separated that way they are not licking and sucking on each other or just stepping on each other. Stopping their milk will give their gut a chance to settle down. And do not over feed them. Leave some grain and a little hay for them to nibble. They are just starting to get their bellies working dairy cross calfs will look skinny for about 3 to 4 months before they really start to look better. They will not poop regular until they have regular food in them but most important are the electrolytes now,


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

They drank from their bottle pretty well this morning, well the one was nursing the cow.

I've been giving them fresh cows milk. The only kind of milk replacer our feed store carries is sav a caf and I HATE that stuff! I will never use! That is the reason I got a milk cow, to use her milk to bottle feed.

They don't lick each other or anything, they are too weak and sick.

I am aware of dairy calves looking thin, these calves are very thin, their eyes are sunken in and everything.


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## kenfromMaine (Dec 5, 2012)

Sunken eyes is not a good thing   sounds like you are doing all you can, dont forget electrolytes I have used pedia lite for real babies and gatorade and the stuff from the store.  I have even used "ensure" the stuff that is for older people.


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

Retook temps, the one that had 102 temp is still 102 (she is the one up 'walking' around and nibbling on grain) the other is 99 this time, this is the one that had the 104.5 temp.

Could I use fruit punch flavored powerade? I have several large bags of the powered stuff.


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

I went ahead and put the powerade in their drinking water, got them up and led them to the water. They drank it eagerly, apparently calves like fruit punch flavored powerade, they would take a few swallows and lick their lips.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 5, 2012)

102 is not elevated, and 99 is low.  I'd put a blanket on that one if you have a blanket available.  If not, use towels or something.


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> 102 is not elevated, and 99 is low.  I'd put a blanket on that one if you have a blanket available.  If not, use towels or something.


I have her laying out in the sun with a dark colored blanket on.


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## Cricket (Dec 5, 2012)

RTG usually recommends the yogurt that says for digestive health.  I make my own from local dairies, but just make sure it says "active cultures".  I would withhold grain as well as milk.  If you google "calf electrolyte recipe with metamucil" you will find some info.  The electrolytes with psyllium husk work well for me, but you have to feed it immediately.  We've been using sulfameth/trimeth in dissolvable pill form for scours and it works well in this area.

edited to add:  I wouldn't feed a Holstein straight Jersey milk if that's not what he's used to.  I think even well-skimmed Jersey milk is way richer than store bought whole milk.  If I bring home straight Jersey milk from work, I'm apt to get as much as 1 qt of heavy cream from a gallon, where if it's out of the pre-cooler on a mostly Holstein hitch, it's more like two inches on a gallon.


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## redtailgal (Dec 5, 2012)

I'm sorry I had to give such a short post earlier.  I was in a horrible rush, but wanted to give you at least a little info.

OK, here is a detailed account of how I would handle this:

*STOP all milk and grain for a full 24 hours. Nothing but water and electrolytes, leave a little hay out for them, but at that age I doubt they will eat it*.  As for it making them weaker, I definately DO NOT think it will make them weaker.  Think about when YOU are sick, esp with an upset tummy.  The thought of eating is usually not so great. A lack of appetite during illness generally suggests that the body is overwhelmed with other needed functions and cannot handle the digestion process.  Eating will often times lead to runny poop and possibly bloat.  Bloat kills calves quickly and runny poop will VERY quickly add to their dehydrated status.  ANYTIME a critter has runny poop, I withhold food for 24 hours.  To be honest, I do the same when the PEOPLE in my house have excessive runny poop and/or vomiting.

*PUSH electrolytes*, you can use pedialyte, or gatoraide in a pinch, but given their condition, I'd make a trip to the farm store and get some bovine electrolyte powder.  I'd give each of them 2 quarts of electrolytes morning, noon, and night during the 24 hour food withholding time.  The sunken eyes are a sign of MAJOR dehydration.......you need to deal with this NOW.

*USE YOGURT* in EACH bottle for the next week, I would give each one of them half a small container of any ACTIVE culture yogurt (I use any of the ones that advertise "digestive health"

*Vitamin b injection*  I'd give each one a vit b injection, dosed according to the directions on the package.  I'd do one shot RIGHT AWAY, and repeat in 72 hours if they are not SIGNIFICANTLY better.

*SUNSHINE and FRESH AIR*........no drafts, not in rainy or windy conditions.   Good solid sunshine is a wonderful healer and motivator

*Encourage them to walk* for a few minutes each time you feed them.  This will prevent a sedentary pneumonia.

After the 24 hours of food withholding, you should see some improvement on their bowels.  You can begin giving them milk again, but dilute it to one part milk and one part electrolyte.  If you are using a powdered milk replacer......cut the amount of powder you use in half, and then add a half water half electrolyte mix for the liquid.  (for example, if you use 8 ounces of powder and two quarts water, then use 4 ounces of powder, one quart water and one quart electrolytes)  Feed them their normal amount (if you usually give a 2 quart bottle, then give a 2 quart serving of this, on their regular schedule)

Do this for 24 hours.

If they get worse (pay attention to the poop)....back up to withholding food for 24 hours. and try again.

Once they do well on the milk/electrolyte mixture..........Give them HALF a serving of regular milk or replacer on a regular schedule.  If they usually drink two quarts, give them one quart.

Do this for 24 hours.

If they regress (watch the poop) go back to the milk electrolyte formula for 24 hours and try again.

If they do well, then give them 3/4 of a normal portion for 48 hours.  Once they are handling that well, you can go back to normal feeding.

DO NOT offer grain or grass until they are eating their milk normally and are having normal bowel movements.

The dehydration is your major concern right now........dehydration is what kills most sick calves.  Deal with this hydration right away.


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> I'm sorry I had to give such a short post earlier.  I was in a horrible rush, but wanted to give you at least a little info.
> 
> OK, here is a detailed account of how I would handle this:
> 
> ...


Could we get Manna Pro Bounce Back Multi-Species Electrolyte Supplement from tractor supply? Or the Re-Sorb (Single Pack), 64 Gram, Pfizer Animal Health, Electrolyte Powder? My mother is near a Tractor supply store and that is probably the only place open tonight (if it is even open).


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

My mom picked up some sort of electrolyte for scouring calves. It said on the pack to give one pack two times a day for two days so she got 8 packs of them. Should I give them one pack each tonight and one pack each in the morning and see how that does and give them a half and half bottle of milk/electrolyte for their evening feeding and their next morning feeding?

Earlier when the sun went behind the barn I made the babies get up and go in the barn where there is no drafts, brought their powerade water in and put in front of them, they drank a good bit of it.

RT the calves were on there momma then switched to formula and I now have a milk cow so I switched them back to fresh cows milk, I'm sure that has a lot to do with their scours but I couldn't afford to feed them the sav a caf from the feed store. I have had so much trouble with sav a caf formula from constant pink eye constant scours and stunted growth. I also hate sav a lam, all the lambs I feed it to have constant scours. I am mixing it as directed, I think it has just enough for a calf or lamb to get by on it.


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## redtailgal (Dec 5, 2012)

The electrolytes that your mother brought should be fine, but I really urge you to with-hold all milk for 24 hours.  Give their little bellies a rest.

Follow the directions on the packet for the scours.  One package in the morning, one at night (but go out a couple times during the day and encourage them to drink).  I'd keep adding the punch flavor powder to their water for a couple days.

How was their poop today?


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

Well, I checked one calf's temp it was 99.1, I brought her in the house....the heat lamps don't provide much heat. Her poop was a watery greenish grey when I brought her in the house....that was about 9ish. I just checked the other calf's temp, hers is 99.3 or 5, it read both a few times her poop was a kinda watery yellow....should I go ahead and bring her in too? It is 31 degrees out tonight.

The calf I brought inside only drank a few sips of the electrolyte, the other calf who is still outside drank a whole bottle and wanted more.


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## redtailgal (Dec 5, 2012)

A normal temp should be around 101.  

99 is low, but not alarmingly low.  

I'd give them a large pile of hay or straw to lay in, if possible.  If not, then go ahead and bring them in.

Calves in the house is NOT fun, lol.

This low temp goes along with dehydration.

AND, if you give a cold calf milk, they cannot digest it properly. It will sit in their stomach and sour, causing a fatal bloat.


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## neener92 (Dec 5, 2012)

Alright, I'll go back up and give her a batter pile of hay to lay in....she does have a blanket on as well.

You aren't kidding, this is the fourth calf I've had in the house. It never fails, as soon as you bring them in the house they either poop or pee all over! 

They both got just electrolyte water. I'm hoping at least one lives...though two would be even better!


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## neener92 (Dec 6, 2012)

Both calves are still alive, the one I left in the barn was good and warm this morning, her nose was even warm! She drank almost a whole bottle of electrolytes, but still can't get up. Her temp was 101.4!  The one that is in the house on the other hand....her temp was 96.5 (I took it a few times!), we tubed her a bottle of electrolytes.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 6, 2012)

Can you put a heat lamp or heating pads on the calf with the low temp? Make sure they don't burn her, but that temp is really, really low.  Can you call a vet and see if you can get some Bovi-Sera?  I've seen it work really well on sickly calves.


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## redtailgal (Dec 6, 2012)

The calf with the low temp......

Are you warming the electrolytes?

Have you seen her PEE.........what color is the urine?  Dark and/or foul smelling urine?  Severe dehydration will cause hypothermia.

NO MILK for her until her temp is above 100.

Put some towels or a blanket in the dryer, and once it is warm, wrap her in it.

She could be a little shocky too, right now.  

Get that vit b injection ASAP.

The other one, GET her up.  I've seen little ones stay down because they THINK they can't get up after trying and failing when they were weak.  They get it in their head that they cannot do it, and then just wont.  MAKE her get up..........she needs to move around a little to prevent pneumonia anyway.


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## neener92 (Dec 6, 2012)

The one with the low temp died. We brought the other in the house, she is drinking well...peeing well, but its not a steady stream of pee. I've tried getting her up, she just won't stand on her own, I'll keep trying! She also drank about 9pints of electrolytes today. Will Vit B12 work, or is that the same thing?


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## bonbean01 (Dec 6, 2012)

Awww...sorry you lost one little one 

Really hope the other one pulls through


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 6, 2012)




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## neener92 (Dec 6, 2012)

We are pretty heart broken. She had a lovely personality, very playful and sweet. Here she is last night warm under a blanket, I'm thankful when she died she was warm and loved.






The other calf drank her half milk/electrolyte bottle this evening. She is drinking well when I give it to her, I tickle her nose with the nipple and she gets those adorable calf lips and licks her nose. I checked her temp earlier it was 99.3 so I got our little electric heater and have on her with a towel, sheet and one of my coats her temp went back up to 100.5. She can't hold her head up very well, when I feed her bottle to her she gets a crackly sound in her throat...I THINK it is just in her throat and not in her lungs but I could be completely wrong.


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## neener92 (Dec 7, 2012)

The other calf (Apple Crisp) is now to weak to drink or hold her head up for that matter. I think I am going to lose her as well.

I called the lady I got them from as soon as they started getting sick Saturday, she told me to give them LA200 and such.
So, I was talking with her yesterday about them still not doing well and she said she "I am so sorry, we will make things right so don't worry." then she said "I know making things right isnt gonna help the attachment u have to these lil gals but we will do what we can."


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## bonbean01 (Dec 7, 2012)

oh...how awful...hope this one makes it


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 7, 2012)

So sorry.  That is so heartbreaking.  Glad the women is being so kind about it.


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## redtailgal (Dec 8, 2012)

Did you give the vit b?

You'll need to get on that if you havent already.

If you get more calves from the same place, you'll need to be careful.  Make sure that they are eating well, pooping right, and active BEFORE you bring them home.  Make sure their butts are clean, their eyes are bright and clear, the nose should be warm and moist.  They should have a strong suck when you place your finger in their mouth.  They should be alert and standing up on their own, willing to move around.  NO swollen joints, no swollen belly buttons. NO discharge from the nose.  Belly should be full without being pot bellied.

  Once you get them home, do NOT be in a rush to give them a bottle. Put them in their enclosure and walk away for an hour or so to let them acclimate.  They will be stressed, even if they dont show it, and a stressed animal really needs an empty belly.  If it's later in the day, skip a meal and feed them the next morning.

Start them out slowly on your feeding program.........dilute whatever you feed them to half strength for the first few bottles, then ease up on the strength.  

I see so many calves die because folks insist on slamming them with milk/re-placer when they are sick or stressed.  ESP for the first few weeks, always remember that a slightly hungry calf is better than a dead one. 

I'm sorry to hear that one of them died.  This happens from time to time, and it just bites when it does.  Its hard to hand raise something and then have it die.


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## neener92 (Dec 8, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Did you give the vit b?
> 
> You'll need to get on that if you havent already.
> 
> ...


I gave vit b12 yesterday morning, not sure if that is the same thing or not. Our phones were out yesterday and I couldn't call the vet and ask him, I don't know if it would have done any good, she started going down hill yesterday morning after drinking one bottle. She is still alive now but unresponsive. 

These girls were doing very well when we brought them home, all the good things you said they were doing. The people had fed them the morning I got them and I waited til 8 at night to feed them their evening bottle. I probably should have done half water though, that makes since especially with jersey cow milk. I will definitely do that if I get another one, another thing I will do is take our jeep and put them in the back of the jeep instead of putting the cages in the back of the truck and covering it with a tarp.

I don't think there is anything I can do for the other calf at this point.


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## neener92 (Dec 8, 2012)

She's gone.


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## ksj0225 (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm so sorry.


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## Pearce Pastures (Dec 8, 2012)




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## neener92 (Dec 8, 2012)

The lady offered me a heifer free of charge, she offered two but I'm only getting one. I hate to get one soo soon after mine died but I have already started weaning my milk cows calf because I thought I was going to be feeding some bottle babies, and we can't use 2 gallons of milk a day.

I will definitely be giving the new calf half electrolytes/milk for at least two days, and if there is any signs of scours I will do what redtailgal suggested.


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## bonbean01 (Dec 8, 2012)

Awwww...I'm so sorry


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## Cricket (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm sorry for your loss.  I would ask the farm if you could buy a 3 day supply of whatever milk replacer the calf is currently on and then switch over to whatever you're going to be feeding over that time as well as diluting the first few days.  I'd also have Corid on hand--many replacers have coccidiants in them.  I have a 3 week old Jersey bull calf that I had to start on Corid today despite getting the med. replacer.


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## neener92 (Dec 8, 2012)

I will ask the lady for a baggy of the replacer she uses and mix half a cup of replacer in electrolytes instead of using a whole cup of replacer for two feedings. Then the third feeding I will do one pint fresh cows milk one pint replacer mixed in electrolytes til the replacer is gone, will this work? I will add some of the yogurt I got for the other calves to this ones bottle as well.


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