# considering getting goats



## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

so we found this lady on Facebook that has some goats. she has 2 three year olds and a 6 moths old she dosent know the breeds but she says that there average goats. they haven t ever been milked but one has a kid before (that's the 6 month old). I plan on getting one of the 3 year olds and then breeding it once it settles down. I have a friend who has bucks. i want to be able to milk her. I'll figure out her feeding system and feed according to that. we have no shelter or enclosed built but we can get one built if we are for sure getting the goat.(any tips on strong build are welcome) i plan on doing a wood fence and adding some strong wire around that. for the shelter...probuly a small shed from lowes either that or we build one.any need for a heat lamp if shes by herself? I understand they need a buddy but i will be out there with it 24/7 and so I was wondering If it would be ok till it kids. also if someone could explain milking to me ...the schedule of breeding them and drying them up,weaning the kid off milk and how often to breed.


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

also when do you tell the female has been fertilized?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

Let me start off with Welcome to BYH! 

Now, about the goats.
Buy TESTED GOATS! 
This will save you money and heartbreak in the long run.
There are several diseases that are really critical in goats. The goats may look healthy but still have these.
If you plan on milking you will want these goats tested. Far too many bring home goats and they  get attached they love them etc and then crisis hits... happens quite often, many threads on this board about it. Please BUY tested goats.

CAE - goat disease- not zoonotic  
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/gener...verview-of-caprine-arthritis-and-encephalitis
http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/animal-disease-faq/cae

CL- *ZOONOTIC*
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/circ...itis/caseous-lymphadenitis-of-sheep-and-goats
http://waddl.vetmed.wsu.edu/animal-disease-faq/caseous-lymphadenitis

*Johnes-ZOONOTIC*
https://johnes.org/goats/faqs.html


As far as a buddy- yes, they are herd animals and need a buddy- people are nice but not the same. They need another goat.


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

the lady has had them for a long time were would I go to get tested goats?

one reason we are possibly getting these is because she also has ducks that i am getting because they are the only females i have been able to find.but she lived an hour thirty in my opinion its not worth the drive for one duck but if we were getting the goats it would be a diffrent story.


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

is there anyway I could get the goats tested once there bought?


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

the only delay is convincing my husband. if I can convince him to let me get one at least mabey two then I may decide to get them else were but I'm gonna talk to him tonight about it and well see how it goes


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

Responsible breeders do test. Even good breeders of unregistered goats will test.
Yes, you can test them, but better to do so where they are and NOT put them on your land til you have results.

If you can draw blood then you can do that and send the tubes out to any number of labs.
If you cannot them you would need a vet or tech or someone who does know how.

Just an FYI- when you asked what kind of goats and the response is


chickens454 said:


> she dosent know the breeds but she says that there average goats. they haven t ever been milked but one has a kid before (that's the 6 month old).


that is a good sign that this may not be a very knowledgeable goat person.  What exactly is an "average goat"... they also have never been milked.... not a good sign. 

Because goats will be a new to you, you want a good breeder that can mentor you. 
Owning your first goats can be a nightmare or a blessing. Choose wisely.

what region are you located? You don't have to be specific but region/ state would be helpful.


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

located in NC.
if I can convince my husband i will most likely get them elsewere.i want to get one Nubian and one Nigerian or two Nubian Nigerian crosses. 

the lady said that the reason she is selling them is because her daughter was taking care of them previously and she has moved out and its alot for her to handle.

I'm going to look at some local breeders and see what there is.


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

around how much would it be to send the tests to the lab?


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

found someone who said there goats were jhones,CAE and CL tested is that what your talking about?

I'm trying to find ones already in milk so I can start milking them right away.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

We are in NC, we have registered, unregistered, & bottle babies coming in Feb. ALL our goats are tested. We breed dairy goats.
Not sure where in NC you are, and NOT trying to sell you goats but always welcome to talk goats and sometimes visiting a farm can be very beneficial. We know several farms that test for all 3 and are very respectable. You really want breeders that mentor. All the questions you have above are far down the road, the immediate things are what will be important at first. 

Johnes is only one of the tests.

Anyone that says they test... ASK to see the proof of documentation BEFORE you buy.
You really want whole herd, consecutive. 
Sadly many now are wording ads to be very deceptive. 

Our vet refers many of our clients and I can say that often when people come and are around the goats and different types and personalities they end up getting a who;e different breed then they thought they wanted. LOL

We just sold our mini nubians.


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

we're at in NC are you located? We're an hour from Fayetteville


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

in the add it said they did there whole herd


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

anyone have ideas for shelters that are cheap but warm?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

The most recognizable town would be "Pittsboro".


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

we're 40 mins from pittsboro!


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

what types do you have?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

My website is in my signature line- as well as breeds- Although it (website) does NOT view well on mobile devices.


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

how would I get to the website?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

click on the link provided... do you see it in my signature line?


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

signature line?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

Pyr's... they simply make life better. 
Lamancha,Nigerian Dwarf, Nubian, Mini's, & Kiko, Goats- breeder of chickens, geese, ducks- 5 Great Pyrs, 2 Anatolians, 4 Toli/Pyrs, Neo/Pyr, GSD and a "super" mutt
www.winginitfarms.com New! FB


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

would you give a lesson to anyone who came out to your farm even if there not buying?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

We charge for our classes for non- clients.


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

how much?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

You can private message me.
It all depends on the particular class you are looking at taking.
General healthcare/feeding/understanding goat care & management  ( generally a 3 hour class)
Fecal Analysis -hands on training for McMasters Method and EPG counts (basic included in above class) in depth training or refresher
Dis budding
Castration
Udder Care/ Milking 
Clipping (show clips)


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## chickens454 (Jan 1, 2018)

what does everyone feed? from what I've heard/read you free feed them hay all day or 2x a day and a cup of grain per goat .5 cup for kids. either have a loose or block form of minerals and of course there fresh water.increse the amount of food for mom's with kids or milking does.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 1, 2018)

We feed Bartlett goat pellets and free choice grass hay. All the goats do get some aflalfa. 

The feed measurements- it depends on the goat. I assume you are thinking about Nigerian Dwarfs. 1 cup might be okay for maintenance. We raise a lot of kids, so I just fill their troughs 2x a with feed and they eat what they want… probably over a cup. That’s a good started point, but you just need to adjust according to the weight of the goat. I’ve a got a doe right now who is FAT! She really doesn’t need any feed right now, while others do.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 1, 2018)

Hay is all day- not feed


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## chickens454 (Jan 2, 2018)

yes I wa thinking as the one cup for a Nigerian. so how much on grain on average would you feed 2 nubians for one day?


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 2, 2018)

They would need to be worked up to a few pounds a day. My buck was probably eating around 5# a day (split into several meals) during his peak growth. 

I like to have free choice feed for my standard kids. 

Nubians are chow hounds LOL


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## Southern by choice (Jan 2, 2018)

There are some good breeders down in the Sandhills area. 
Because kidding season is approaching you may even find a doe in milk.


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## chickens454 (Jan 2, 2018)

would you have any names of the farms by chance?


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 2, 2018)

I can think of two for Nigerians.
Free Spirits Farm.  (Marina does a class on goat's too) They are in Spring Lake
End O Way Farm.  Karen is in Raeford

Nubians
Morgen Star Farm. They are in Raeford


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## Southern by choice (Jan 2, 2018)

What One Fine Acre referred is what I was going to pm you for Nigerians
Also for Nubians- Frog Flat Farm they are in Selma


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## chickens454 (Jan 2, 2018)

thank you! ill check with then to see if they have some in milk.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 2, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> thank you! ill check with then to see if they have some in milk.



Keep in mind most are just heading into kidding season.  You may find a great quality goat in milk! Good luck!


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## chickens454 (Jan 2, 2018)

let's hope so!!!


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## Alaskan (Jan 2, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> what does everyone feed? from what I've heard/read you free feed them hay all day or 2x a day and a cup of grain per goat .5 cup for kids. either have a loose or block form of minerals and of course there fresh water.increse the amount of food for mom's with kids or milking does.



it depends so much on the individual goat and if she is growing,  milking, etc.

I right now have one dry mature goat (she missed being bred last year).  She is only on free choice medium quality grass hay and free choice minerals, and she can run around and browse.  She gets zero grain or pellets.  She is FAT.

My one doe right now in milk, gets the same but also all she can eat in milk goat pellets twice a day when she is milked,  plus a lunch of a big scoop of alfalfa pellets.  She is a bit skinny. Being milked takes a lot out of them.


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## chickens454 (Jan 3, 2018)

somewhere I heard that pineneedles can make a goat miscarage...is this true?


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## chickens454 (Jan 5, 2018)

some places is says it does others say it dosent. I don't want to have to worry about pineneedles.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 5, 2018)

We cut pine limbs for our goats. 
I believe it is the Ponderosa pine that is toxic. 
Ours also eat acorns- high in tannins that help with parasite control... too much isn't good though. Our goats have never had an issue self regulating.


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## chickens454 (Jan 5, 2018)

ok, good cause our yard had lots of pine trees.


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## chickens454 (Jan 5, 2018)

not many acorns


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## Southern by choice (Jan 5, 2018)

Goats can easily kill trees. They love the bark and will eat away at it til it kills them. Some goats are more attracted than others. Fence off or wrap trees you don't want eaten.


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## chickens454 (Jan 5, 2018)

ok, thanks


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## chickens454 (Jan 5, 2018)

what fencing would you guys suggest? I was thinking a wooden frame and then wire wrapped around it but what wire is best?


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## Alaskan (Jan 5, 2018)

dunno... I do not have successful fences.


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## chickens454 (Jan 5, 2018)

Alaskan said:


> dunno... I do not have successful fences.



what wire have you used that has failed so I can not make the same mistake?


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## Alaskan (Jan 5, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> what wire have you used that has failed so I can not make the same mistake?


well...the pallet and trash wall we made in the barn (walls off one third of the barn, rest is storage and place for them to loaf during the day) does keep them safe at night.

During the day we tried a pallet fence, an electric rope (5 strand) fence, chicken wire fence, and a 1x2 inch welded wire fence.

At this point they stay on the property. .. we fuss at them when they go to the neighbors. ..   for some reason they have been very good about stating around the house.  As I said we do lock them up at night... but they are free during the day.  We gave up.


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## BlessedWithGoats (Jan 6, 2018)

Welcome to BYH! Best wishes on finding the right goats for you!

I am really glad you are looking at buying tested animals. Trust me, it's worth it. I didn't, and ended up having to put down about 1/2 of my herd because of it. It was awful.


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## chickens454 (Jan 6, 2018)

so pallet fence dosent work?


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## Latestarter (Jan 6, 2018)

It may, or it may not. Goats love to climb for one thing. They also love to get themselves into trouble. Many here will attest that they actively TRY to kill themselves. Mostly, I guess they need adequate space, adequate food and water, and a few "toys" to keep their attention diverted and keep them busy... things to kick around, climb up on, jump on and off, stick their heads into (and get stuck - buckets and such), you know, that sort of thing. They need enough space that they can RUN a little as they practice predator/prey escape scenarios in their little heads. Like when for no apparent reason, they all jump straight up and do a 180° turn while airborne, and run full speed in the opposite direction as far as the fence will let them go. Then turn and look back at you like "what? you didn't SEE that?!" 

A pallet fence, on its own, will NOT stop a rut crazed buck from trying to get that sweet smelling honey of a doe. Be it yours or the one that's 1/2 mile up wind blowing her sweet scent down to him.

A pallet fence, on its own, will NOT stop high prey drive predators such as coyotes, wolves, stray dogs, neighbor's dogs, YOUR dogs, from attacking and killing your goats, at will. You will NEED to top the fence with hot wire, possibly two level high above the fence. Plan in advance for how you intend to accomplish this.


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## chickens454 (Jan 6, 2018)

im not getting any bucks so that won't be an issiue. if the pallets were supported on the outside with sturdy sticks/poles that were in the ground holding the pallets up. and wire was strung on the top of the pallets would that hold them?

an way I could use strong wire that's not electrical? I will have little kids on the property and don't want to have to worry about electrical wire.

most of the time I will have them tethered to a tree so they can graze either on the lawn or in a brush field. that way they will get stuff other then feed and hay.


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## chickens454 (Jan 6, 2018)

there's also no one around that has goats so I think I'm good with the whole buck/for setting


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## Southern by choice (Jan 6, 2018)

Thinking long term you will need a buck to produce babies. 
Some will allow buck service but most who do are not disease testing. 
If they lease a buck to you then more than likely they will for others. Are the goats tested? 
This is how disease and infections become a problem. 
The few breeders (good breeders) that will lease a buck would require proof of tested clean animals.

T post with 2x4 wire around it - box like should work, for the trees.

As far as tethering- this is not a good practice. Dangerous to say the least.

I would advise visiting several goat farms so you can see how goats are managed, kept safe etc.


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## chickens454 (Jan 6, 2018)

I have a friend who has goats and she will provide the bucks services for me. I'm pretty sure there tested. I would only tether under supervision and only in day time.


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## Mini Horses (Jan 6, 2018)

We can ALL tell you what we have for fence, what has not worked and what is (?) working.   You can choose the best you can afford BUT it does not mean that you won't have any issues ever.  You may not, then again, you may.  Size of goats may be a consideration for "some" of their escape attempts.

I use 2X4 no climb woven, 4' tall.    MOST of the time it is just fine for 99% of my goats.  This year I have a very athletic  young doe who sized it up, takes 3 steps back, one up & propels her lovely self over the top like a deer!    None of the others do this.  I hope she will stop once bred and in milk.   I find the does in milk are FAR less intent on escape tactics that may injure their udder.  (This girl goes back in same way).

Now my buck is huge & while tame and content, if in rut he will challenge ANYTHING that is called "fence".  Cattle panels keep him contained but he continually pushes on it to find "the spot". Summers?  A plain old 4' fence is fine.

None of mine leave my farm when out...even if thru a gate left open.   They graze and forage -- there are those tree, bushes, flowers, gardens issues!! -- but, stay fairly close to their barn areas.    In fact, I can open a gate, call them and they will follow me like the Pied Piper!   I have taken them to my furthest fields this way often.  However, when thru eating, they all rush back "home".   If I want to KEEP them in a further field for the day, I must shut that gate.   When they want back, they look for an escape to come back..  

Goats have personalities and HABITS.   They are creatures who want consistency.  If you milk, do NOT go out of order    They know their order & don't appreciate a change....although they may rush to get in because most are fed on the stands.

SBC is correct about testing.  Proof of testing is best for all parties.  It's less expensive that vets/meds to cure (if you can) or losing your herd, as others have attested.

Goats are awesome animals.   Everyone is giving you some great info to make your ownership experience a good one.  We love all of our goats --  you will love these amazingly smart and affectionate animals.  YES -- very smart!!


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 6, 2018)

@chickens454 - I like the 2x4 no climb 4' fence, too.  We used cattle panel on part of ours and found that the baby kids can just walk right through it.  So we added welded wire on top of that, but it isn't a lasting solution because the big goats can break it easily.  You probably have a few goat people right in your area that could help you get ideas.  Maybe a google maps search on "goats" or "goat farms" or "farms" will turn up some results.  You could join a FB group for Nigerian dwarf goat sales and ask for breeders in your neck of the woods to respond.  It is good that you are asking a lot of questions and figuring things out before you get your goats because it's emotionally taxing when something injures or sickens an animal you love and care for.  Good fences; healthy, tested stock; good management practices all help make for an enjoyable experience with goats.


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## chickens454 (Jan 6, 2018)

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/red-brand-non-climb-horse-fence-60-in-x-200-ft

is this what your talking about? 
could any one get pics of there fences?

is it more like this?

 
or this?
 
these were the results when I typed in "no climb woven fence"...


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## Latestarter (Jan 6, 2018)

Just go to the TSC site and search wire fencing, you'll find it. https://www.tractorsupply.com/TopCategoriesDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051
There are many varieties as well as sizes. Most folks recommend against welded wire fencing as it is cheap, rusts, will not last with goat abuse. However, if that's all you can afford, you do what you have to do. You can also use cattle panels (they are 16' long and flexible) to form a holding pen area using T-posts and clips. However, as stated, the cattle panels have 4" x 4" holes above the 2 lowest runs of wire and goat kids can fit right through. So you'd have to back it up with welded wire or some other fencing to make it impassable.


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## Alaskan (Jan 6, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/red-brand-non-climb-horse-fence-60-in-x-200-ft
> 
> is this what your talking about?
> could any one get pics of there fences?
> ...


that first photo looks good, the second is terrible in that the goats would see that as a ladder.

I had horses for a number of years...and I managed to EASILY keep the horses contained. .. goats are a totally different beast.

Latestarter is correct about the welded wire... goats push against it and pop the welds apart,  then push  through  the now dangling wires.  

The pallet fence we made might have kept them in, if it had been made sturdier.  With the pallets you also need to make sure that you are not giving them ladders. 

But Latestarter's other comment about predators is also dead on.  Whatever you build needs to keep out dogs. 

And who made the comment regarding different breeds and fences?  But I have definitely experienced that!  My full sized goats have been easier to keep in then my dwarf cross.  The dwarf cross can easily bounce over a 5 foot fence!  I have heard that the smaller the goat. ..the bouncier.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 6, 2018)

We have a lot of goats. Standards, Minis, and Nigerians. All stay behind a 4 ft fence. 
Some fences are a bit shorter. 

My Nubian buck’s should is at the height of some of the fences (he’s a beast). 

They all stay behind 4ft cattle field fence (big squares at the top, little at the bottom). 

None get out. I never have understood why people say goats are escape artists. I think management plays a role. Often times when I hear about goats constantly escaping they are either underfed, kept with other livestock that harass the goats, of kept in dirty conditions- unhappy goats. 
Not saying that’s the case with our fellow BYH members- these are just observations. 
I’m sure some goats are just brats. Thankfully we haven’t experienced that.


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## Alaskan (Jan 7, 2018)

Yeah... not sure why I have had such trouble with mine.  First field we tried to keep them in was almost 2 acres. .. it had a couple of tree clumps,  some brush, and some open grass and forbs... just 3 does.  It had been maybe 4 years since any livestock had been in it...looked nice.  They just would not stay in.  Had a great electric rope horse fence.

Then they found my apple orchard, and tore the tar out of that fence and gates, trying to get IN.  And they had all the world to eat up. That fence now looks like a junkyard... but we finally made it tall enough and strong enough that they stay out.   (I should add that moose love apple trees, and after 15 years of keeping moose out,  that fence couldn't keep out goats for a full month).

Maybe after that they were "trained" to bust fences?  dunno.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2018)

Goat Whisperer said:


> We have a lot of goats. Standards, Minis, and Nigerians. All stay behind a 4 ft fence.
> Some fences are a bit shorter.
> 
> My Nubian buck’s should is at the height of some of the fences (he’s a beast).
> ...





Alaskan said:


> Yeah... not sure why I have had such trouble with mine.  First field we tried to keep them in was almost 2 acres. .. it had a couple of tree clumps,  some brush, and some open grass and forbs... just 3 does.  It had been maybe 4 years since any livestock had been in it...looked nice.  They just would not stay in.  Had a great electric rope horse fence.
> 
> Then they found my apple orchard, and tore the tar out of that fence and gates, trying to get IN.  And they had all the world to eat up. That fence now looks like a junkyard... but we finally made it tall enough and strong enough that they stay out.   (I should add that moose love apple trees, and after 15 years of keeping moose out,  that fence couldn't keep out goats for a full month).
> 
> Maybe after that they were "trained" to bust fences?  dunno.


@Alaskan 
I do think our LGD's play a huge role as well. The goats know they are safe and protected.  Our layout also puts the majority of our goats with the ability to see the house. 
We are very bonded with them and I do wonder if that plays a part. 
The goats that we had offsite and behind 3-4 strand hotwire always stayed put when they could easily jump it... again I think the LGD's and the goats knowing they were safe with the dogs made all the difference.  @Goat Whisperer what do you think?


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 7, 2018)

I agree that happy goats don't try to get out of fences, for the most part.  We can leave our gate open and will find them back in their paddock after they have a walkabout. But our young bucks tried to get back to the buck and wether after I separated them because they started chasing and butting each other during rut. All that butting continued through the fence and eventually popped the staples that held it to the shelter. We patched it and attached a board to strengthen it.


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 7, 2018)

Here are some photos from our fence and shelter build.  We do use the non-climb, woven wire from TSC that your link connected to, as well as other fencing.  Ours is 60" but that is overkill.  48" is tall enough.  We're happy with the material, but we could have pulled it tighter in places.  Make sure that you don't place structures they can get on top of next to a fence they might jump over.

Levelling and tamping a pressure treated round post.  Cattle panel fence.




 
Leveling a square post to be used as part of a goat shelter.

 
Our basic goat shelter.  We angle the roof for drainage and water collecting.



A finished shelter. We collect the rain water off the roof into water barrels for watering the goats.


 
This is a chicken coop.  It has welded wire on the run to the right of the photo.  We built it before we had goats.  The wooden posts are for the roof. We actually used ten foot, 1 1/2" electrical conduit for the uprights.  It is good for chickens, but would be torn down by goats. At the back of the photo, you see the non climb, woven wire.  The span is attached to the coop and then to the gate.  We made the gate by sinking two posts in the ground, connecting them at the top by a board and building a door covered with hardware cloth. You can see the top of the fencing is the red line. The conduit post in the middle and horizontally at the top is for raising the fence height with zip tied deer netting.  It is to keep the deer out.  


Here you see Big Brown getting friendly with Hazel a couple of years ago.  The cattle panel has an added layer of welded wire to keep the little kids from passing through the holes.  Now, the goats have beaten down the welded wire and the kids we have are going back and forth to visit the bucks.  No-one minds. You can see the bottom of a water barrel on its cinder block base to raise it up for getting water into a bucket or hose.

 
Here is an 8' x 4'  gate from TSC.  It doesn't have to be this wide, we put it here before adding more paddock to the back so we may remove it and put a smaller gate here.

 
Close up of the woven wire.


 
You can see that we should have tightened this woven wire some more.  The fence is sagging where our wether is standing on it.  This is where they popped off the staples that attached it to the right to a shelter.  We reinforced it with a board.


Here is a shelter with cattle panel fencing and a hay locker which holds eight square bales.  We bought it at BJ's and like it a lot. But I realize now that a load of snow on top would have to be pushed off to open it in wintry weather.


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 7, 2018)

More fencing.  This is another chicken run.  It has welded wire on top and hardware cloth on bottom.  The small holes on the hardware cloth keep predators from reaching in and grabbing a chicken.  Also, the hardware cloth is buried under ground to keep them from digging into the run.


Here is a different gate we bought instead of building one.  You can see the posts used to strengthen the gate posts.  Again, we have conduit to raise the height to keep deer out.



Cattle panel left, woven wire right.


2" x 4" Woven wire.


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## Mini Horses (Jan 7, 2018)

.........."it's always greener on the other side".......


IMO, Yes, the LGDs make a difference as they help maintain the goats/sheep/whatever to stay within their areas.   The dogs view the fence as safe containment and defend it from predators, keeping the livestock in a safe zone.  It's their job & they excel.

Mostly  goats are just looking for the next adventure or special tree you were trying to grow.  They aren't trying to leave, just curious about what's out there.


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

ok so I have decided to use the 2x4 woven wire like stated above. I'm going to make it 4ft tall. my husband is an awesome builder and he cuts trees so he may be able to cut the wood for there housing. it's probuly gonna look somethin like above. is the wire just flush with the ground or is it burried?

what's the minimum space required for 2 Nigerian dwarfs or 2 Nubian?

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/light-duty-fence-post-5-ft?cm_vc=-10005
I know this says light duty but would this work in place of wooden posts, If I found a sturdy on?


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

thanks guys, all this info has helped greatly!


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

would a hay bag work for holding hay?


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 7, 2018)

Our fence posts were 6" diameter from TSC.  I don't know about t-posts, but I know you want the fence to last and not have to repair it next year.  Why put up a fence you keep having to build over again?  Another thing- when temperatures are this cold, the ground is really hard and difficult to dig post holes and tamp.  We like to wait till warmer spring temperatures and moister soil conditions to do fencing work.  My brother-in-law's family was in fencing and they used the cedar on the land to make their posts.  I think they cut it and seasoned it before using.  I've seen fencing material on Craigslist- sometimes stuff lying unused, sometimes old fencing to be taken away.  It can work, but it is a lot of work...


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 7, 2018)

There is a good discussion going on over at https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/farm-financing.37207/

lots of tips


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2018)

Nigie does are considerably smaller. Nubians 160-200 lbs  Nigerians- 60-80 lbs   so double the space you would want for Nigerians.


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## Latestarter (Jan 7, 2018)

You really need the 6.5' T-posts to have enough to plant in the ground. With a 5' post, you'll only have a foot in the ground. One long T-storm or a couple of really wet days of rain water to loosen the soil, coupled with a goat standing up on the fence, and those T-posts will fall right over. With the 6.5' posts, you can sink 18-24" of post into the ground and still have a little post above fence line that you can put a string of hot wire on top if you find the need down the line.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...d-t-post-6-1-2-ft125-lb-per-foot?cm_vc=-10005


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

ok I'll get the other t-posts I was just using the 5' as a example. 

how often would a t-posts post need to be placed if the dimensions are 15x20?


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

for my shelter I have multiple old dog igloos that are large size...would that work?
 either that or I plan to do this.

can everyone get some pics of there shelters?


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 7, 2018)

We place T posts every 8 feet.

For a shelter, I’d do something similar to the pic. That way two goats can cuddle together and will have more room when it rains. You will probably want to have an actual floor though, the first will get gross quickly.

How long are you wanting to keep the goats in the 15x20 pen? Nigerians will be better than Nubians in this type of situation. Nubians get big (our doe has weighed of to 165 pounds). They have a LOT more poop, not trying to be gross but when keeping goats in a small pen you have to think about these things. Their feet will churn it into a mud pit once winter hits. Plus they will be costly to feed. Nubians eat. A lot. They will essentially be in a dry lot, so you will need to provide ALL feed and hay, they will not have adequate forage so that means more $ spent in hay and feed.


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

I meant a 15x20 for the Nigerians.

 yes I'll do a covered floor for the shelter and on the front side a half wall. and I'll muck out the shelter and pen every so often for fertilizer. 

I plan on getting Nigerians but am interested in Nubians and was just looking for info.

if I get 2 Nigerians and milk twice a day will this sustane a family of 7?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2018)

t post are generally 6 ft apart


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 7, 2018)

It depends on the goats and how much milk you need. 

Some Nigerians will give 2 cups others 2 quarts (at peak production). 

Our Nubian gives 12# at peak production. 8# as an average.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> if I get 2 Nigerians and milk twice a day will this sustane a family of 7?


No.
Even really good Nigerian milkers will not support a family of 7.
You also look at number of kiddings- a FF generally will not milk as well as a 3rd freshener.

Averages- remember lacatation will wane after so many months so you will have a peak period as well
A good Nigerian think 3# day 
Minis- depending on breed and stock- 5#-8#
Standards - depending on breed and stock Nubians can be  8#-10# 

Basing this on goats in general.


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

what breed of goat do you guys suggest then? I think nubians would be to much so would 2 mini Nubians produce enough?

we consume .5 a gallon a day at most.


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

so mini Nubians would produce more then a nigerian?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2018)

Yes, mini nubian, mini mancha, mini alpine,- pretty much most mini's.

There is an entire registry for miniatures.

Miniature Dairy Goat Association-   http://miniaturedairygoats.net/

They also do milktest, shows, DNA testing and still working on an evaluation system

Production again will vary. Our mini lamanchas out produce our mini nubians - but some farms it may be flipped.
I like the higher butterfat and taste of our lamancha milk over our nubian/s

Pricing for Mini Nubians will greatly vary- by generation usually as well as breed characteristic. Pricing is all over the map.
Looking at the udder is far more important than nose, ears, etc.


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 7, 2018)

When I was once a day milking my five Nigerian does this year, I got all combined a gallon a day at the peak and a half gallon a day when they were shutting down.  They are not the best in terms of quantity. Some better than others.


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

any one know of some mini Nubian sellers close to me?


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 7, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> any one know of some mini Nubian sellers close to me?


Not knowing where you live exactly, makes it difficult for us to make suggestions.  You should use some search tools like Craigslist, Facebook, even Google to get a feel for what's out there.  I did a quick Craigslist search and came up with a possibility but only you would know whether it's close to you or not, too expensive or not, tested well or whatever.  You have been given a lot of info and are doing the right kind of searching, but I think some of the other sites are gong to be more helpful when it comes to finding stock.  Here's the CL post- 
* Goats,Goats,Goats and sheep -UPDATE - $1 (Sanford) hide this posting*







UPDATE. We currently now have 1 buck and 1 doe. Pictured would like for them to go as bottle babies.

We also have 3 mini nubian does who are bred. 2 of them will result in F6 kidds and one will be F2 kidd(s). These are due in February they are all pure bread mini nubians and prices will range from $300-400 each.

Our sheep have yet to lamb but I suspect they are inside 2 weeks at this point. Lambs will be $200 each.

Any of these can be available as bottle babies after they are settled and heathly. Or can be dam raised.
Updates can also be seen on our farm page:
https://www.facebook.com/B2BAcres/
For further information please email with interest and any questions.


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

found 2 adds on cragslist:  one said they had 2 that were pregnant and due January so they may have already been born I don't knoe

the other said they had 3 does all due february


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

thats one of the posts i found. i dont want babies i need some that are either going to be able to milk soon or some that are already in milk. wouldn't mind ones that are gonna have babies or who have babies currently as I have a friend that will help with the birth if necessary.

I'm located by pinehurst so 45- hour from Fayetteville.


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## Bayleaf Meadows (Jan 7, 2018)

You've made a start!  If you go to the farm site linked in the ad posted, they may be able to tell you about other possibilities, too. You should also think about your own timeline.  When do you think you will have a place ready for the goats you want to get?


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

well, so I have to convince my hubby but I would like to have everything ready, all the ideas of what I'll need and were the goats will be before I ask him. I messaged the people from the link and well see when they reply. I should have everything ready by either beginning of feb or end of jan.


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

would a hay bag work for their hay?


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

asked the people they said they didn't have any adults just the kids. so I'm asking them if they know anyone they said they didnt...darn it back to the look in page


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 7, 2018)

I’m not a fan of hay nets. 
They are very dangerous.


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## chickens454 (Jan 7, 2018)

so something like plastic trashcan with holes cut in it would work?

I would put it up off the ground and some sort of bun under it to catch fallen hay.


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## Alaskan (Jan 7, 2018)

For a hay holder we looked at ones on-line, and then my boys built a wooden one.

As to amount of milk.. as the others said, it is extremely variable.   Make sure you buy a good producer.  No reason to spend money on a girl that will never produce.

Also, with a mature doe, see if you can watch her be milked....  as easy miler is SO MUCH EASIER to milk than one with all kinds of bad habits.  I am not sure that you milking her is a good indication. ... since some girls are fine as long as everything is done "right "  but a problem for someone they don't know.. .

As to housing.... I have a true barn...uh....20x30?  about that, with a full loft.  One third of the bottom is junk (aspen wood for the smoker, old horse water troughs etc) 1/3 is the middle run through left open as a loafing area out of the weather, and 1/3 is the secure area with their hay, water, and mineral. where they are locked up at night.  So, 3 does (2 full size, 1 mini) in a 20x10 pen.  during the day they get to roam about.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> asked the people they said they didn't have any adults just the kids. so I'm asking them if they know anyone they said they didnt...darn it back to the look in page



Since kidding season for many in the region (NC/SC) is generally March that will be a good time. Some start in Feb. but anyway often this is when people will decide if they are keeping a doe or not.
It is a good time to find does in milk. March  through May is usually the best times to find what you are looking for.
Not all does are "culls" as in bad goats. If a good show breeder has a doe freshen and they are not terribly excited about the udder- meaning it isn't going to be show quality- it may be a great goat that produces great but may have something that just isn't as good as what they want to keep for a breeding program and that goat is perfect for a home milker.
Sometimes people just need to downsize too.


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## Alaskan (Jan 7, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Since kidding season for many in the region (NC/SC) is generally March that will be a good time. Some start in Feb. but anyway often this is when people will decide if they are keeping a doe or not.
> It is a good time to find does in milk. March  through May is usually the best times to find what you are looking for.
> Not all does are "culls" as in bad goats. If a good show breeder has a doe freshen and they are not terribly excited about the udder- meaning it isn't going to be show quality- it may be a great goat that produces great but may have something that just isn't as good as what they want to keep for a breeding program and that goat is perfect for a home milker.
> Sometimes people just need to downsize too.


very true!


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## chickens454 (Jan 8, 2018)

my last hope... https://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/d/pregnant-dairy-goat-two-bred/6408571047.html


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## Alaskan (Jan 8, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> my last hope... https://raleigh.craigslist.org/grd/d/pregnant-dairy-goat-two-bred/6408571047.html


not really your last hope....

remember that lots more will start coming on the market as spring progresses


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## chickens454 (Jan 8, 2018)

well yes but last hope if I'm gonna get them sooner then march.


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## rachels.haven (Jan 8, 2018)

Hi! Watching this thread. Was planning on getting goats, and they are allowed in the township where I live and a few other people have them, but since then the twp powers decided to start acting like a HOA and commissioned a "blight squad" and now if your neighbor doesn't like you and your yard has so much as a few blades of grass over 6" on a fence line, or your car breaks down in your driveway, or your garbage cans are visible from a street, or a weed they've undesirable sprouts in your yard they can fine you several thousand dollars and send you to jail for months at a time...NOT encouraging for future goat owners...so I'm just watching, learning, and dreaming of moving somewhere else. (the "law" probably won't last, probably only until they accidentally don't stick to harassing elderly people and section 8 people and get sued for trespassing and harassment but I may not be living here to see it change)

So far, all this fence talk and pictures have been useful. Nice to know what to expect and see actual fence pictures on the scale I'd be leaning towards. CL,CAE, and Johnes testing is a no brainer. It's not worth even just the worry, trust me (learned via other beasts). I think next I'm going to do a search on Goat first Aid kits and medicine cabinets, including wormers. I'm kind of hoping this thread strays into that territory at some point someday as it meanders along.

Anywho, thanks for starting the thread OP.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 8, 2018)

chickens454 said:


> well yes but last hope if I'm gonna get them sooner then march.



Keep in mind that most people that post are selling "now"... and many will not hold a goat.
Work on your shelter, fencing etc, get your supplies... you may be surprised at just how long that can take. By the time that is all done I think you will be closer to that March-ish time period anyway and you will have many goats to choose from. Go for quality and tested.

If you are looking at mini nubians or Nubians you should be aware of G6S. Google it and read about G6S.


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