# Those of you who have had wild or fearful horses..



## lupinfarm (Jan 5, 2010)

How did you deal with sedation? As many of you know my mare is relatively fearful and wary around people. She was wild before she got to her old owners, was trained up, and then left for over a year to do nothing and became cautious and rather nervous around people. I've been working hard to get contact and I am able now to touch her, but the leadrope is still a no no and she is still scared sometimes of even a little bit of touch. 

We opted to have her sedated for the farrier, the appointments have been made and the vet will be here Friday at 9am to sedate her for the farrier. This particular vet dealt with her when her last owners had her. I'm so worried it's going to be awful on Friday. I don't want anyone to get hurt and there is no barn or small pen to bring her into. She's calmed down a lot since we got her, and a lot since she was last trimmed. 

I'm still worried though!

Which lead me to post here.. those of you who have had fearful and/or unapproachable horses, how did you deal with the sedation? Did your vets do IM sedation? I can't see how you'd get an IV sedative into a horse thats freaking out and I seem to remember my gelding who had to be sedated was given an IM shot. The purpose of the sedation is just to take the edge off and calm her down enough that the farrier can do all 4 feet without her taking off or anyone getting hurt. Did you give your animal anything to keep their mind off the vet/sedative? Mylie will just stand there and let you do pretty much anything for some sweet feed and I'm not concerned about her colicking or foundering. 

I get a lot of advice from people about how to handle the sedation but none of it seems to sound like it would work in our particular situation. Things like, put a chain on the gums, and put her in a trailer. I won't be able to get a lead rope on her like that and I don't own a trailer. The best recommendation I've gotten was getting the vet to give her some oral ACE or get him to give us some oral ACE to give her an hour before he gets there so he can easily give her the IM shot without her freaking right out. It would even work if he decided to give it to her when he got there because the farrier could trim Luna while Mylie's sedative is starting to act and then he could hit her with the IM shot just before the farrier gets over to her field to do her. 

Just to be perfectly clear, We are working very hard to get Mylie comfortable with having her feet done, and all parts of her body messed with but it's a slow process.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 6, 2010)

Sometimes sedation can backfire if the horse is already stressed out. I would see if you could pay your farrier to come out for a "trial" run before trimming feet. Provide him with some carrots and let him just hang out with her for an hour, petting her and running his hand down her legs without actually trimming her. Most farriers are fairly amenable to that and would rather work with a horse than force it.

My horse is usually sedated for teeth floating now that she's older and the vet has to use the motorized apparatus. It wears off after an hour or so. If your horse is fairly relaxed, then it will probably be fine. 

DH's Appaloosa came out of sedation when his teeth were floated and he attacked the vet. The vet stopped then, said his teeth were good enough and said he didn't want to chance a bad reaction


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## Countrymom (Jan 6, 2010)

I would opt for a trial run with the farrier....letting him get to know your mare rather than sedation.  Reason being is that you are really not teaching her how to be calm for a trim, just masking her reaction to it and making her memory fuzzy on what was happening.  Unless she is in dire need of farrier work as in her feet need the medical type attention, then training her and waiting will do her more of a benefit.  I have several times done this with young horses and waited...even when the feet were not as balanced or trimmed as I like them.  

I see a lot of sedation unfortunately in the horse world.  And usually I see how a horse once not sedated reacts to everyday things that normally are no bother.  It is because they have been in a medicated fog and didn't learn a thing.  Even had a mare freak out about being led one day because it was the first time in years she had been off medication to control her.  

If she is fearful of picking up her feet, then you as the owner need to either work with her or get a trainer.  It sounds like that is exactly what you are doing.  My opinion on the farrier and even the vet is that it isn't their job to train someone else's horse and put themselves in danger.  And I say that in all honesty and not as an accusation or with any ill meaning.  I think you are feeling the same as you have gone to this extent to attempt the trim.  

Take time with her on a halter and lead rope.  Get her use to picking up her feet by using a soft cotton rope just looped around the fetlock first and lifting.  Horses are less fearful of a rope verses and hand......and it keeps you at a safe distance to her reactions if they are bad.  Then slowly over time work your way down to picking up feet with your hand.  If the mare continues to react poorly use the old work vs rest training.  If she wants to freak, then make her move in circles or back her up with force.  Then calmly try again.  Once she realizes that it is easier on her to just stand and give you her hoof, then she will relax.  And by all means use a key word such as 'give' to help her realize what you want.  Taking your time and working this through is just a beginning. THen you proceed to introducing farrier tools ....  and then on to even beating on the bottom of the hoof as if she were getting shod.  This is a long process and really the only way you will gain her confidence and trust in trimming and other farrier work.  

I presently have a black filly who I have raised....and had all the training and hands on since birth.....who is a nervous wreck type of horse.  To this day when we first start out riding she explodes in diarreah that would send anyone running from the smell!  UGH   And then she is fine.  I have had to do everything extra long and extra slow with her.  But she isn't the first nervous horse I have been around.  And had plenty of absolutely wild ones do good with the slow and steady no medication.  

Good Luck!


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## lupinfarm (Jan 6, 2010)

I don't think either of you are quite understanding the situation. Mylie DID see a farrier approximately 10 weeks ago, so she's kind of in dire need of a trim. Being a draft X she's prone to bad flares and cracking when it flares out too much plus a lot of toe on the backs. ANYWAY. We DID try having a trial session, and with the farrier who TRAINED HER! She was antsy but let him do her fronts, when it came to the backs NO WAY JOSE, not going to happen. 

The sedation is not long term, I don't plan on sedating her forever and ever and ever and just masking the problems. Not my goal. I want a horse that will stand and have her feet done with no problems, and we have been working toward this the last 10 weeks but we're still no where near ready. I can't expect the farrier to travel out here and hang around while we coaxe her into having her feet done, not going to happen and he shouldn't be expected to either. Simple patience will NOT work on this girl. My vet is onboard and since it's for her general health I have no complaints. My question was not *what do I do with this horse?* but *what can I do to make the sedation easier?* and I hate to sound like a total worm here but you've both completely missed the point of the post. 

Sometimes just working through ain't gonna cut it, I'm hoping that by her next farrier visit we will at least be able to do the fronts with no nonsense unsedated and mildly sedate her for the backs. As my vet said, we can first sedate her with some oral Atravet then he'll hit her with an IM or IV shot of sedative. He wants to sedate her enough so that she's calm and comfortable and just dopey enough that she's not going to run. We want this to be a good experience even if she's sedated. 

And for the record, Mylie isn't stressed out and super crazy all the time. Sometimes I catch this glimpse of a total normal and calm horse but thats not all the time yet. The sedation will work, it's just getting it in her was my concern.

Thanks for your concerns and advice but it really doesn't help that much.

ETA, I'll give the soft rope for picking up her fronts a whirl though. It took about a month to get any kind of contact with her and it's going to be a long drawn out process. I'll be getting a round pen in a couple months and I know for a fact she calms down after she's been run in the roundpen for about a week. Her trainer said a big part of her training was that she was offloaded into a roundpen, and he roundpenned her for a week and just had her join up everyday until she was totally sure he wasn't the devil. After that she was a saint to work with, when she left at the end of her 30 days to go back to her old owners she was trail riding like a pro, but she regressed quickly because the old owner had no idea how to deal with a 4 year old and GROWING draft X mare. Mylie is almost like 16hh now!! She has had a growth spurt, when I got her she was bum high and now she's wither high. Oh geez.


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## Countrymom (Jan 6, 2010)

Well then we are from different schools.  If the horse you are working with only  has crack issues and long toes, then I would never dream of sedation......only training.  Let the feet get long.  And work through the problems is a way to go period.  I realize you are doing so.  As for sedation.....I am not for it unless medically necessary period.  Long hooves isn't a case in my book.  Founder, navicular, injury, or even routine things like floating teeth or medical proceedure.  

Sorry you didn't think I understand.  Just don't believe in rushing a nervous horse even with vet approval and all.  

Try that soft cotton rope work.  It will be your best bet.  

I don't mean to be a pain about this, just simple facts from my experience with working with horses.


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## lupinfarm (Jan 6, 2010)

Yeah I can understand where you're coming from but it just doesn't apply to Mylie's situation. I've never dreamt of sedating a horse and I am only considering it for her own good. The longer I leave the hooves, the flatter they'll get. My gelding had been left long and he ended up with flat feet, dropped soles, and no heel. Mylie is starting to get that way and once it starts it's hard to back peddle on a draft x. We never sedate Luna and we never sedated Pal for farrier but this time it's crucial. 

If I had more time, I'd consider just working through it but we had more time last time and it didn't help. Even with a farrier she had known for over a year, who had trained her, bonded with her, loved her -- we still ended up with a small injury and a nervous horse. I'm working hard, but she needs those feet trimmed and we're in less than stellar conditions what with the snow we have and the lack of a barn or small corral. 

Trust me, I'm not really keen on sedating either but it's the only way she'll get trimmed. and IMO by preventing the cracks now I'm saving a lot of headaches later. I can't just leave my horses hooves in the state they are in, I don't think that's right.


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## Countrymom (Jan 6, 2010)

Had a mare one time that had her first trim at age 7.  I purchased her completely wild at age 5 1/2 and began her training.  Never did sedate her for any training only teeth proceedure.  Her feet were fine.  

Had a horse that was severally injured in a back hock.  Took over 6 months to heal.  I refused to have her trimmmed because it was too stressful to her to stand for it.  She was fine and when healed her long flat feet came back within a regular trimming schedule.  Both of those mares are sound today.

Bad hooves equals bad genetics.  Lack of care in hoof trimming is only going to be lack of care.  A good farrier can turn around a horse pretty quickly.  If the horse has bad genetics, then a farrier can only do as much as he is able.  Another 6 months of training isn't going to be the death of her feet.


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## lupinfarm (Jan 6, 2010)

Countrymom said:
			
		

> Bad hooves equals bad genetics.  Lack of care in hoof trimming is only going to be lack of care.  A good farrier can turn around a horse pretty quickly.  If the horse has bad genetics, then a farrier can only do as much as he is able.  Another 6 months of training isn't going to be the death of her feet.


That's absolutely ridiculous, horses develop bad feet from neglect. I don't EVER think its right to not trim your horse if you can do it with sedation. In your cases it made sense to wait, in mine it doesn't. My geldings feet were not a genetic problem, the low sole was due in part to genetics but the flatness and lack of heel was NOT. It was due entirely to neglect, to not being trimmed. It took over a YEAR to get his heals back even a tiny amount (then his farrier was shot and killed by his neighbour) and we lost it completely, and could never find a farrier to get him back to that little bit of heel we had. 

My pony has bad feet from neglect, how can you even say horses don't develop bad feet and those issues from not being trimmed? Drafts and Draft x's are especially prone to issues with flatfootedness and issues with their heels if left to grow out too long. She's not just "a little long" she's REALLY LONG and getting very pie plate-ish in the feet. 

You do things your way and I do them my way, I didn't ask for advice on how to get the feet trimmed and didn't want it. We've already decided on sedation, I just wanted suggestions on how to go about getting the needle in her.


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## Countrymom (Jan 6, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> Countrymom said:
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Boy I sure got that!  I will do things my way and I will do them with all safety in mind....sedation does not guarantee that.  My point is no needle in period .... until she is safe to underneath.   Sorry we cannot agree.  Sad really.  I didn't expect that post.


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## lupinfarm (Jan 8, 2010)

Well the vet came and sedated her, the shot went in no problem at all. He was kind of super rude though about trimming in the field. We have always unless we boarded somewhere with a barn, trimmed in the field. Of course we assessed the weather and reschedualed as necessary. 



Anyway, he gave the go ahead for the farrier a few minutes before he should have and she did bolt on the first foot, the vet went and got her. He's a good vet though. The farrier wasn't too concerned and actually asked the vet to hold her and if I'd help him with her feet. He finished the backs with no further issues and the rest was rather uneventful. We had her tied to the fence for almost 40 minutes after the vet left to make sure she didnt eat anything to make her choke. Even then I tried my best to keep her away from the hay but she's just obsessed and whenever I turned my back she'd rush up and sneak a bite LOL silly horsey. 





Anyway, she seems a whole load calmer AFTER having the sedative than before and the vet said her attitude may change regarding handling and that next time she shouldn't need any more than a few kind words when getting her feet done. The farrier was really quick, in and out, done in record time and very precise and I have to say, I quite like him. Her feet look incredible. It was unfortunately too cold to do Luna's feet so he's going to come back and do her. 


Of course I've just spent 40 minutes in -20 weather LOL and my legs are lobster red and I can hardly type  But Mylie is happy.


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## Stauffer (Jan 8, 2010)

I used to have to sedate my haffy mare for the farrier. Nothing else, just the farrier. I did it IV, IM and plain ol' squirting the stuff in her mouth. All worked. IV was fastest, IM and squirting it in the mouth a bit slower.

It took about 2 years, but she no longer has to be sedated for the farrier. She'll still have a "moment" here and there, but nothing like her blow ups from before--sitting down, rolling over, flopping over, rearing and striking, just flat out collapsing. We started weaning her down slowly from it...if she did excellent on a trim, the next time we'd lower the dose. 


now, a friend of mine has a TB rescue...she and farrier agreed he needed shoes on the fronts for some issue or another. He'd only ever had trims and was good for that...but shoes he started freaking out. He was sedated, finished the shoes...the next time, he didn't need a sedative at all...took it like a pro!


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## lupinfarm (Jan 8, 2010)

Stauffer said:
			
		

> I used to have to sedate my haffy mare for the farrier. Nothing else, just the farrier. I did it IV, IM and plain ol' squirting the stuff in her mouth. All worked. IV was fastest, IM and squirting it in the mouth a bit slower.
> 
> It took about 2 years, but she no longer has to be sedated for the farrier. She'll still have a "moment" here and there, but nothing like her blow ups from before--sitting down, rolling over, flopping over, rearing and striking, just flat out collapsing. We started weaning her down slowly from it...if she did excellent on a trim, the next time we'd lower the dose.
> 
> ...


Yeah the vet said that she took it well despite bolting once, but that wasn't because of the feet it was because she was still a little too aware and saw the farrier come into her sightline after finishing the first hoof but after that she was a doll. Vet said she probably won't need any more than a few nice words next time, that this was good experience for her. I almost froze to death waiting for her to come out of the sedative though LOL


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