# First Post, What are the Pros and Cons of different LGDs



## Vorax

Hello y'all and just wanted to say I found your forum because of a picture of a Sarplaninac tooth on a measuring tape lol, but seriously I have been researching LGDs for use in Texas on Feral Hogs, so it hasn't been easy finding a dog that can stand the heat and take down a nasty hog even in a pack. I know the Great Pyrenees is the most widely used and even USDA approved, but I don't think it will fair well in a hot climate. I was just looking at the Sarplaninac/Yugoslavian Mountain Dog because it has fangs like knives, which could be useful in killing hogs if they don't break off. I also noticed the Serbian Defense Dog has this trait with a shorter coat, but these dogs may have to go into a mix for what I need. One dog that looks promising is the Olympia Farm Dog that is a Boerboel x Kangal(Anatolian Mastiff) and the American Mastiff that is a Mastiff x Kangal. I also have been looking at Australian dogs like the Bullygrey and Kangaroo Dog. Other than that I am open to suggestions of breeds and mixes. You may be wondering why I just don't use an American Bulldog like everyone else in the south that catches hogs, well they are not used to chase hogs and are just sent in to hold it so the hunter can kill it. What I need is a pack of dogs I can leave outside that can chase down and kill a hog, coyote, or even wolves.


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## SmallFarmGirl

hope you find your A!!!!


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## Karma

Honestly, I don't think LGD breeds will work as you think they will. I suppose in theory they could be trained however I don't think LGD's with proper temperments will be able to perform what you want very well. So you'd be relying on dogs culled for improper temperment and who knows what else could occur from breeders not placing proper temperment and working ability high on their list. I also don't think it is a safe even for them at least not alone like you want. We've hog hunted with my inlaws catahoulas and I have seen what they can do to even extremely fast agile and experienced hog dogs. Their pyr can't keep up with the houlas at all, she's nowhere near as fast or agile and definitely not one to leave her herd. 

Mixing with a breed with a higher chase drive could result as you want or as is more likely it could produce a litter that will likely be unusable either as a dog to catch and hold hogs or to guard the home/livestock. Either way even if you did get your perfect "hog hunting on their own" dog, it is highly unlikely they will be safe to keep around livestock or strange people. I guess what I'm saying is that I think you need to decide whether you want catch dogs like Bulldogs or Dogo's or dogs that keep the hogs/coyotes/predators from being a concern by running them off your land and killing only as a last line of defense. Ones we have had in the past don't really give chase to kill unless something is bent on harming their herd, hogs are not stupid and will run at the warning a LGD gives because getting hurt = death to a feral animal.


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## Vorax

I see your point Karma and the problem is when you chase off hogs they still destroy everything. I figure if wolves are hogs natural predator there has got to be a dog that is similar. Keep in mind the land they would be canvassing would not have people on it. Also dogs with a high prey drive tend not to be people aggressive. I've been reading about the Kangal and it seems the closest to what I need.


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## Dolly1218

Im no expert, but you may want to look into Boz Shepherds. I have been reading a lot about them and I am leaning towards them for my herd.. They are similar in color and origin as the Kangals, but much larger.. Just a thought


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## secuono

There is a TV show on Animal Planet of Hog hunters in Texas, they use hounds, Pitts and other dogs. Maybe you can call a company like them and ask them what would or not work.


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## carolinagirl

You need a breed of dog that has hunting in it's genes, not one who's genetics tell it to kill only to protect it's livestock.  The LGD breeds have a very low prey drive.  I really don't think just turning a pack loose to hunt down and kill hogs and wolves is a sound decision at all!  What is going to keep them on your property, only killing the animals you want them to kill?  Encouraging a pack to become unsupervised killing machines is going to get you into a heap of legal trouble.  You'd be far better off setting some live traps to catch the hogs.  It's very easy to catch hogs in live traps.  You can actually build a large stout pen out of stock panels and make a trap gate and catch lots of them with no need for dogs.


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## Vorax

Thanks for all the input. I don't need a dog to hunt, just a dog that can catch what it sees on the property. I looked at the Boz Shepherd and looks too heavy. I have been looking at fast dogs like the Kangaroo Dog to cross with something that has a killing bite. Here is what I have found in my research so far.
Serbian Defense Dog(Sarplaninac cross)





Kangaroo Dog




Bullygrey




Olympia Farm Dog




Kangal




BoerGrey




Maritsane (Middle dog)




O'Halloran Hound




Tosa Bandog




Alaunt Uk




ABgrey





Maybe I will just get one of each lol 
As I said before I know hog hunters and don't want a catch dog with small teeth and short muzzles or hounds with no bite.


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## secuono

Those tall, skinny hounds look like sight hounds and are meant for small game, they will also easily break a leg when fighting the hogs. So unless you want them constantly in the hospital with leg casts, pick something thick and strong. All dogs can run fast.
I agree that a killing pack will also kill everything and anything else it finds or just wants to take down. You need to trap the hogs or hunt them yourself.


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## Vorax

secuono said:
			
		

> Those tall, skinny hounds look like sight hounds and are meant for small game, they will also easily break a leg when fighting the hogs. So unless you want them constantly in the hospital with leg casts, pick something thick and strong. All dogs can run fast.
> I agree that a killing pack will also kill everything and anything else it finds or just wants to take down. You need to trap the hogs or hunt them yourself.


http://huntingpigdog.com/index.php?page=bullgreys


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## Beekissed

http://dogs.bsl-sbt.com/dogs/bullarab.php?s=&l=    Are these the same as the Bully Grey or the AB grey?


Also....  

You might want to look into the Catahoula breed:









> The Louisiana Catahoula Leopard Dog is believed to have originated from Nordic Wolfhound being introduced some three to five hundred years before the Spanish arrived - However, no one will really know for sure.  The state of Louisiana is cited as the point of origin, particularly the area of Catahoula.  In 1979, the breed was designated the state dog of Louisiana. The Catahoula was named after a Parish in Northeastern Louisiana and after the mottled spots on its coat. At one time this breed was used to round up feral pigs and cattle -- livestock that had escaped, and was living in woods and swamps. It involved team effort that is highly coordinated and organized, fast paced, dangerous, and a marvel to watch.  The ideal dog team usually numbers three, and they must work together.  Otherwise, the one pig can kill all three in a matter of minutes. Each dog has to be aware of what the pig and  the other two dogs are doing and react accordingly. Hunters sometimes used the Catahoula to trail and tree raccoons, but this dominant breed is more at home acting the thug with obstinate boars. This dog is used particularly on the difficult task of driving and rounding hogs and unruly cattle.


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## carolinagirl

Be prepared to lose a lot of dogs.  Hogs can easily kill most dog, which is why hunters use body armor on them when they are catching.  Obviously your pack won't have that advantage so you can expect heavy losses.   A hog is not going to be an easy thing for a dog to kill.  I am still confused about the duty of these dogs.  Are they in fenced pastures?  If so....how can the hogs get in if the dogs can't get out? I know there are hog hunting forums out there....they can probably advise you about this better, since guarding livestock isn't really what you are after.


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## Vorax

Beekissed said:
			
		

> http://dogs.bsl-sbt.com/dogs/bullarab.php?s=&l=    Are these the same as the Bully Grey or the AB grey?
> 
> 
> Also....
> 
> You might want to look into the Catahoula breed:
> 
> http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images24/LouisianaCatahoulaLeopardDogBushPurebredDogs.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Louisiana Catahoula Leopard Dog is believed to have originated from Nordic Wolfhound being introduced some three to five hundred years before the Spanish arrived - However, no one will really know for sure.  The state of Louisiana is cited as the point of origin, particularly the area of Catahoula.  In 1979, the breed was designated the state dog of Louisiana. The Catahoula was named after a Parish in Northeastern Louisiana and after the mottled spots on its coat. At one time this breed was used to round up feral pigs and cattle -- livestock that had escaped, and was living in woods and swamps. It involved team effort that is highly coordinated and organized, fast paced, dangerous, and a marvel to watch.  The ideal dog team usually numbers three, and they must work together.  Otherwise, the one pig can kill all three in a matter of minutes. Each dog has to be aware of what the pig and  the other two dogs are doing and react accordingly. Hunters sometimes used the Catahoula to trail and tree raccoons, but this dominant breed is more at home acting the thug with obstinate boars. This dog is used particularly on the difficult task of driving and rounding hogs and unruly cattle.
Click to expand...

That's a profile on the Bull Arab, an Australia pure bred that has German Shorthaired Pointer in it.


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## Vorax

carolinagirl said:
			
		

> Be prepared to lose a lot of dogs.  Hogs can easily kill most dog, which is why hunters use body armor on them when they are catching.  Obviously your pack won't have that advantage so you can expect heavy losses.   A hog is not going to be an easy thing for a dog to kill.  I am still confused about the duty of these dogs.  Are they in fenced pastures?  If so....how can the hogs get in if the dogs can't get out? I know there are hog hunting forums out there....they can probably advise you about this better, since guarding livestock isn't really what you are after.


I'm on all the hog hunting forums and they are all in Australian, none in the US. True, a dog would have hard time killing a dog, but not a pack  Farmland is private property where hunters are not allowed so if the dogs run into anyone they are trespassers and probably armed anyway.


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## secuono

That pittbullxsighthound type dog has thick legs. Maritsane & Kangaroo Dog look to have very thin legs. The others have that long, thin core, making them look rather funky, but the legs are stronger. Even the site you linked says they gave up some speed for strength.


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## Vorax

secuono said:
			
		

> That pittbullxsighthound type dog has thick legs. Maritsane & Kangaroo Dog look to have very thin legs. The others have that long, thin core, making them look rather funky, but the legs are stronger. Even the site you linked says they gave up some speed for strength.


The Maritsane is actually just a Boerboel x Kangaroo Dog. Sorry don't have another picture.


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## Grazer

Livestock guardian dogs have a low prey drive in general and killing hogs is for the most part not what they were bred for.
I think it's safe to say that you should look at breeds/mixes who have been bred for many years, even centuries for this type of job.
Dogs like say Black Mouth Cur, Dogo Argentino etc..


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## Vorax

Grazer said:
			
		

> Livestock guardian dogs have a low prey drive in general and killing hogs is for the most part not what they were bred for.
> I think it's safe to say that you should look at breeds/mixes who have been bred for many years, even centuries for this type of job.
> Dogs like say Black Mouth Cur, Dogo Argentino etc..


I have looked at those but are too slow and don't have a killing bite, more of a holder. I think I found what I am looking for in Washington State called an Olympic Quattro: http://www.olympicdogs.net/post/702022967/olympic-quatros


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## Grazer

That's a good looking dog. So he's a Dane/Dogo x Kangal/Boerboel mix? 
I'm sure they make terrific working dogs and they also remind me a little of a Fila Brasileiro too.
Speaking of which, I've known of some people in Turkey who have crossed Kangal with Fila's in the past and I think their crosses were pretty successful.
They could be called Bandogs, although most people would only call a mastiff/bully breed cross a Bandog.


Have you ever heard of this kennel?: http://midgardkennels.wordpress.com/raising-a-working-mastiff/
I've read many times the post of that breeder on other forums and he seems to have the type of dogs you're looking for. But anyway, that's his website..


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