# Turning a passion into retirement security.



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

i was wondering if anyone in here has turned their passion of farming into a source of financial stability and means of self fulfillment? I have a really strong need to find a source of “stability” and personal fulfillment for my little household in the very nearby future that can last us through our retirement years.

Since I became disabled about ten years ago I’ve struggled to find a means of personal fulfillment, and financial security. I have very recently discovered how much our “little farm” has. I think I’ve found a way to turn our “little farm” into a source of stability in the event of financial hard times. Any can be put into financial turmoil at any given time. All it takes is the loss of a job, loss of income source, or a family crisis. I honestly want to be able to put food on our table and feed into the bellies of our livestock, while providing a means of support should we or a family member find themselves.

I have come up with a plan of sorts to get us into such a position. Has anyone else been able to do the very same thing using their passion for farming and herds? I have a fun little plan that I’m willing to share should anyone else be interested in doing something like this for themselves and their family.


----------



## greybeard (Feb 13, 2019)

Carla D said:


> i was wondering if anyone in here has turned their passion of farming into a source of financial stability and means of self fulfillment?


The 'fulfillment' part is relatively easy to obtain.
But, "farming" for most people in the USA as it pertains to this discussion board is just an expensive hobby.
I only know of a very  few people on this board that can honestly say they provide even a majority of their financial or food needs thru farming.
Farmer Jan..The Old Ram, a couple of the cattlemen that no longer post here probably...the rest?
Supplement...yes. Provide the majority of? no.
Financial stability based on farming? no.

I do pretty good, but I don't fool myself. My cattle pay for themselves, pay the property taxes and most years put some $$ in my pocket but there is no way I would claim I could make it without outside income.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

Hello @greybeard , I think I’m going to post my idea/plan. I might have written it wron earlier. But I do have definite goals and objectives. I’ll share them with you and whoever else may be interested. It’s going to take two separate posts as the only way I could figure out to share it is with screen shots. So here goes.


           There is a little bit more in my next post as well.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

Second part of my idea/plan.


----------



## greybeard (Feb 13, 2019)

An interesting plan and certainly lofty goals, but unless I missed something from all that, the over riding question, is how you are going to pay for it.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

greybeard said:


> An interesting plan and certainly lofty goals, but unless I missed something from all that, the over riding question, is how you are going to pay for it.


Kinda hoping we can grow adequate crops to supply animal needs. And breedable livestock to throw us a replacement baby and milk as needed. We will need a mortgage to buy our little farm. But we already have much of the working machinery needed to do small scale farming. We need a planter, picker, possibly taller elevator. I’m sure there’s a bit more. But we find great pleasure in buying older, fixable, usable equipment. I’m guessing the majority of our equipment is just about as old as we are. It will take proper care, maintenance, storage and upkeep to keep them running. But we see no need in buying a newer used piece of equipment that costs 10’s of thousands dollars when a reasonable $300-2000 piece of equipment will do the job. We don’t plan on owning a large amount of crop land. Just enough to plant what we need vs. going to the feed store, local elevator, or buying hay/straw.

Do you think what we have planned as far as equipment and animals are concerned that this could work with our broken in machinery and breedable livestock?


----------



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

And as far as crop land goes we can always rent or lease a little bit more land if needed. Plus if we pasture/graze/feed our animals that would cut back at least a little bit of gross/grains we need to grow. That leads to smaller amount of land needed to grow crops.

Am I thinking at least somewhat along the right lines or am I thinking too simplistic? Honesty please. At this very moment we are renting. Renting livable space, farm space, and some storage space. We own what equipment we are using. At this point in the plan it’s not too late to do better thinking or look into other options/plans. Right now we don’t have a whole lot to lose. It’s not like we own 150 acres, grand farmhouse, large farm, or even 100-200 head to lose.

Also when I’m talking hard times, I mean really hard times. Like the Great Depression as a whole. Not just personal tough times. Times when it’s hard for most anybody and everybody are struggling to put food on their table and feeding their animals tough. There is also the option of selling livestock for much needed cash in order to prevent losing a possession. Hard times when neighbors and families trade what they do have an extra of to get something they need. For some reason, I have a feeling we are headed to that kind of financial hardship.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Feb 13, 2019)

Carla, i feel the same way about the future but am not a "prepper or doomsday " person. We keep our goats , chickens and rabbits to breed and sell to pay for there feed, and after almost two years they are just starting to give us a few $$$.... we don't  have a mortgage,  vehicle  payment or any bills other than utility bills and internet, grocery and insurance. ...my opinion may not be worth much, but if you keep to the smaller side, with enough to provide for you and your family, you will reduce the STRESS factor....and that my friend is better than money in the bank.
You are disabled for a reason, don't  add more stress, find a afordable place where you can raise enough for yourselfs....sadly... unless you have some big pockets......., life as a full time farmer ...making a livable  income is over...we can't  afford to fight commercial corporate owned farming. Do for your family, go small, stress less, live as thrifty as you can and save a little money for retirement days.
Your idea is champagne. ...but your purse like most of us , has a beer only budget....enjoy the beer why make life complicated  ? Enjoy the simple moments instead of beating yourselfs up for a huge mortgage payment,   .....keep it simple, enjoy your child, your animals ...each other


----------



## Baymule (Feb 13, 2019)

I lose money selling eggs. It pays for part of the feed and that is about as good as it gets.

I lose money on the sheep. I now have 9 ewes, just had 11 lambs with 1 more ewe to lamb. This might be the year I break even or maybe clear a little if I can sell the ram lambs (7) to individuals, slaughtered as cuts of meat. We'll see.

I make money of feeder pigs. Not a lot and I don't want to raise 50 hogs to make more money. 

4 horses are a hole in my pocket that I dump money in. They give me great joy and I love to ride.

I raise a garden and can, dehydrate and freeze the produce. I don't raise everything we eat, but I knock a hole in the grocery bill.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Carla, i feel the same way about the future but am not a "prepper or doomsday " person. We keep our goats , chickens and rabbits to breed and sell to pay for there feed, and after almost two years they are just starting to give us a few $$$.... we don't  have a mortgage,  vehicle  payment or any bills other than utility bills and internet, grocery and insurance. ...my opinion may not be worth much, but if you keep to the smaller side, with enough to provide for you and your family, you will reduce the STRESS factor....and that my friend is better than money in the bank.
> You are disabled for a reason, don't  add more stress, find a afordable place where you can raise enough for yourselfs....sadly... unless you have some big pockets......., life as a full time farmer ...making a livable  income is over...we can't  afford to fight commercial corporate owned farming. Do for your family, go small, stress less, live as thrifty as you can and save a little money for retirement days.
> Your idea is champagne. ...but your purse like most of us , has a beer only budget....enjoy the beer why make life complicated  ? Enjoy the simple moments instead of beating yourselfs up for a huge mortgage payment,   .....keep it simple, enjoy your child, your animals ...each other


You opinion is important to me. Maybe my plan is on the grand/champagne but I’m hoping to find some way to at least insure that out family will always have food in their bellies. That is the absote minimum I’m willing to accept.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Feb 13, 2019)

Then do what you can afford to do...just like the rest of us


----------



## greybeard (Feb 13, 2019)

Carla D said:


> And as far as crop land goes we can always rent or lease a little bit more land if needed


Again, and as in your previous 2 posts, you didn't say how you were going to finance. Yes, no matter what, you would have a house/property payment..at least in the beginning years and that payment has to come off the top each and every month. 

Using the farmstead example you provided of the property on 'County Road G', the estimated mortgage is right @ $800/month. $9,600/year plus property taxes at the end of the year, which in 2018 was another $3,600. $13,200 is what would have to be available from farm income, Just to keep a roof over your head, but that isn't nearly enough if you are going to make a go at successful farming. That doesn't include
1. Fuel.
2. Fertilize.
3. fence repair/maintenance.
4. Building/structure upkeep.
5. Animal feed..it isn't free...you would have to either buy it or grow it. Either way, you have to pay for it, either thru buying the seed, doing the work, or buying it finished goods from a co-op.
6. Equipment upkeep/repair. (I was a diesel mechanic for much of my working life...even doing my own work, parts a fluids are expensive.
7. Fence work. (I have 25 gates on my place, at about $80 a pop.) If you buy a place all ready to go, great, otherwise, get ready to spend a bundle of cash just to keep your animals in and animals OUT of any crops you want to grow..
8. Health care...I'm sure you already know how much that costs out of household budgets.
.
.
.
These, (and a whole lot more) all have to come from a farmer/rancher's income.

I'm very much in favor of having a plan...a vision, and sticking with it, but part of that plan must include a way to pay for it and, (hopefully) a way to make it pay for itself with profit at  the end.
It does look like the 9.2 ac place you showed is ready to go, but 9 acres isn't much if you intend to fully support your family with it.

For instance...It would probably carry only 4 cow/calf pairs in good years. Your gross revenue from selling four 700lb calves right now would be about $3,780. It would pay the property taxes IF, you had zero costs in raising the calves to weaning weight.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 13, 2019)

Many people have created their own business with a decent income. There is a guy in the next town who runs a vegetable stand in the summer. He farms 20 acres of his own, plus will buy certain items for resale. I haven't gotten too nosey, I think he is disabled, so he has a income, small though it may be. He is open all summer, then he said he does fall clean up yardwork, or whatever he can. 

There are people who make jams and jellies and sell online. Texas has a cottage law, I checked and Wisconsin has one too. You could bake breads, make pickles, jelly and sell from the farm or farmer's market. You could make a tidy income from it. 

https://www.facebook.com/wisconsincottagefood/

https://www.wisconsincottagefood.co...YlP6YE1GG9uNL9zEyAcSbg7PI4BS_Uu3gAmPMaq89S0EQ

You mentioned making craft items, that would compliment your home baked goods and give you more to sell. 

Maybe your niche isn't raising meat or vegetables for sale, but baked goods, jellies and things covered by the cottage law. 

@Devonviolet and her husband sell at their local farmer's market, she sells gluten free baked goods. Her peppermint patty brownies are to DIE for! I take tiny bites to make the pleasure sensory of deliciousness last longer. 

You may have to go to a larger town to sell your wares, but then again, the competition could be fierce. Look around and see what you find.


----------



## Baymule (Feb 13, 2019)

If you do the cottage law sales, you don't have to wait to buy a farm, you could do that now.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

greybeard said:


> Again, and as in your previous 2 posts, you didn't say how you were going to finance. Yes, no matter what, you would have a house/property payment..at least in the beginning years and that payment has to come off the top each and every month.
> 
> Using the farmstead example you provided of the property on 'County Road G', the estimated mortgage is right @ $800/month. $9,600/year plus property taxes at the end of the year, which in 2018 was another $3,600. $13,200 is what would have to be available from farm income, Just to keep a roof over your head, but that isn't nearly enough if you are going to make a go at successful farming. That doesn't include
> 1. Fuel.
> ...



This happens to be the exact property we are going to talk to the about tomorrow.

I may not have mentioned this but my husband plans on retiring from the creamery he currently is working at. He’s been there 4-5 years, so we should have many years of reliable income provide the creamery is able to stay running and operating at the capacity it is currently. I’m not however confident in that staying at its current capacity for that length of time. I know in 2017 they ran out of an essential, possibly whey or a milk source, and had to buy it in order to keep production going. I’m thinking it’s safe to bet that that wasn’t a one time deal. If that’s the case and the creamery needs to buy in order to keep production up, this will dramatically change. I don’t know the first thing about businesses, and the power of unions. So much of this is speculation on my part. They just renewed their union contract for five years(?). I’m thinking there should be some job and income security for at least the remainder of that contract. I don’t know what could possibly happen after that. But, I’m going to assume there may be a time when we we are going to make lifestyle changes because of what could happen down the road with his job.

I have to be candid here. I have never thought about how we would manage to keep food on the table, roof over our head, and one mode of transportation should something happen before now. I’m not even sure what provoked me into thinking about it now. Finances, money, and planning for the future have never been strong points in my life much less thinking about them. I’ve typically not planned for possible events and have only reacted to things sent my direction in a reactive manner. Not very smart on my part.

We do have other sources of income at present, military disability, my disability. We also have a 401k, military pension, retirement pension from Jim’s work. That’s not taking into consideration a small amount of SS if that even exists 20-30 years from now. I’m hoping like heck that we would be able to live off this very modestly if we make proper downsizing of lifestyle decisions. I would be perfectly fine living in a 300-400 sqft house, off grid or with minimal utilities, owning one older but running vehicle. Life gets too complicated at times. Our cabin had been off grid for 2.5 years and we still went up there for periods of time greater than two weeks. It’s still pretty much off grid. We have no running water, bathroom facilities, heat or a/c. We have very minimal electricity up there as we have found way too many dangerous conditions of altered plumbing and electrical that we will not rely on what is there until it is properly REPLACED. I had even tried talking DH into building or buying a tiny home of our own and live off grid. I’m pretty sure my husband and I could live a modified pioneer lifestyle. Neither one of us have any interest in living anything but a as simple and modest of a live as humanly/feasibly possible. 

I do have a bit more to say, but I don’t want to write a book right now.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Many people have created their own business with a decent income. There is a guy in the next town who runs a vegetable stand in the summer. He farms 20 acres of his own, plus will buy certain items for resale. I haven't gotten too nosey, I think he is disabled, so he has a income, small though it may be. He is open all summer, then he said he does fall clean up yardwork, or whatever he can.
> 
> There are people who make jams and jellies and sell online. Texas has a cottage law, I checked and Wisconsin has one too. You could bake breads, make pickles, jelly and sell from the farm or farmer's market. You could make a tidy income from it.
> 
> ...



Looking into laws, regulations, permits, other legal things for the sale of home grown, produced, foods, meats, edibles, and crafts for Pierce Co, Wi and Wisconsin in general was on tonight’s to do list. I’ve never heard of the cottage law. I was wondering where to start my looking. Because, if it really tough to be able to sell animals, meats, milk, dairy, eggs from a small farm/home base setting it would not be worth getting any more goats, for example, than I’d need to produce for our own family’s needs. If it isn’t too tough to produce, process, and sell certain interested items in doing then I’ll know if we can grow our farm to a size bigger than what only our household can use. More things to look into. Thank you.


----------



## B&B Happy goats (Feb 13, 2019)

Carla, pigs are the best bet for the money, to raise and sell...you get more pound of gain for pound of grain,with pigs... you are already doing the pigs..consider pushing that to the max right now and save your share of proceeds after costs deducted. Sit and figure what you are spending right now for pet goats and could you make more money in that space with less goats...try this now and see how far you can afford to push your boundaries. ...and costs.....may just work for now right where you are at the farm ?....and give you some needed funds to go bigger as your grow....


----------



## Carla D (Feb 13, 2019)

B&B Happy goats said:


> Carla, pigs are the best bet for the money, to raise and sell...you get more pound of gain for pound of grain,with pigs... you are already doing the pigs..consider pushing that to the max right now and save your share of proceeds after costs deducted. Sit and figure what you are spending right now for pet goats and could you make more money in that space with less goats...try this now and see how far you can afford to push your boundaries. ...and costs.....may just work for now right where you are at the farm ?....and give you some needed funds to go bigger as your grow....



That is a really great idea. There is a possibility that our primary animal to raise being pigs. We really love them. And we have already hit the break even point in what we are raising. The next hope is to make a little money off of them.

I’ve been thinking about the goats. I’ve had many ideas and suggestions passed my way these last few days. I do definitely want to produce goats milk for our own household purposes. It may be a huge PITA to raise, breed, sell goats and goat products. It could come down to buying one or two Nubian doelings, raise them, rent a buck. And have a little meat and a little milk for the use of our household solely. I think I’m ok with that as well. We really just want to stay busy, creative, happy, and supplement our own household. Anything above and beyond that would be an added bonus, provided it didn’t cause us huge numbers of headaches or insurmountable hoops to jump through. I do have big ideas and plans. But nothing ever gets done without ideas and plans first. My plan happens to have a wide range of options to explore from and pick and choose what works for us at any given moment or whim.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 14, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Many people have created their own business with a decent income. There is a guy in the next town who runs a vegetable stand in the summer. He farms 20 acres of his own, plus will buy certain items for resale. I haven't gotten too nosey, I think he is disabled, so he has a income, small though it may be. He is open all summer, then he said he does fall clean up yardwork, or whatever he can.
> 
> There are people who make jams and jellies and sell online. Texas has a cottage law, I checked and Wisconsin has one too. You could bake breads, make pickles, jelly and sell from the farm or farmer's market. You could make a tidy income from it.
> 
> ...


Great websites. Thank you for helping me find a starting in my research.


----------



## greybeard (Feb 14, 2019)

> More than half of U.S. farm households lost money farming in recent years, according to the USDA, which estimated that median farm income for U.S. farm households was negative $1,548 in 2018. Farm incomes have slid despite record productivity on American farms, because oversupply drives down commodity prices.


----------



## Sheepshape (Feb 14, 2019)

Farming USA sounds much like farming UK. Big businesses make money, smallholders scrape along.(the exceptions are those who have cornered the market for rare breeds/cider/cheese/ice cream etc making or stuff like that.)

I just about break even with my 80 sheep (but may not after Brexit), but lose on my 40 or so chickens (I sell a few eggs, but being veggie my roosters only provide free food for friends and my spoilt dog). To achieve this unenviable position I work many unpaid hours each week. However I  love my animals and wouldn't be without them. Mercifully, I don't have to try to rely on them for income.

I grow lots of fruit and vegetables, and these very much form part of our regular diet.

Carla, I wish you well in your endeavours. DO try to be sure that you will earn sufficient income to continue with your  lifestyle before fully committing yourself. Decide what you can afford, then speak to folk in a similar position to discover how they fare.

You clearly love your animals, so whatever you do, make sure that there's room for some!


----------



## Baymule (Feb 14, 2019)

Keep in mind that what you want to do is choose wisely. Pigs would be a good choice  because they do not require all your time. If you spend every waking hour working yourself to death on your business, the joy will quickly leave and it may become a drudge. 

My pig pen for feeder pigs. It could be improved on, such as making a loading chute. 

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/baymule’s-pigs-2018-herefords.37448/page-6

Everything you ever wanted to know about raising pigs. Your husband works at a creamery? WHEY! WHEY! WHEY! This guy buys NO COMMERCIAL FEED. A creamery delivers WHEY to him weekly and gives it to him. He raises pigs on 70 of his 1,000 acres. He has been in business for many years and has grown his business. He bought his property in the 1980's, it was the side of a mountain and cheap. He turned it into his livelihood. But the information he posts is priceless. Read all you can.

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/

Because of what I read on his site, I took a chance on buying two large hogs a couple of years ago for SEVENTY FIVE dollars for BOTH! And last year, we bought Wilbur (820 pounds) the boar for $100. We took the chance of boar taint, but I fed a diet for cleaning up the meat. The meat was delicious. 

Walter Jeffries has double fenced his pig pastures and planted fruit, nut and acorn bearing trees in the double fenced strip. The trees bear, drop their fruit and it adds to feeding the hogs. I love reading his site. 

Look closely at breeds of hogs. Look at pure bred or registered heritage hogs. @misfitmorgan may be able to help you on this. They raise Hereford Hogs. @luvmypets raises Mangalitsa hogs and her and her father are building a specialty business supplying high end restaurants. If raising registered hogs, you could sell the best as breeding stock. You could  sell piglets to 4-H or FFA kids for project hogs. 

http://sugarmtnfarm.com/


----------



## Carla D (Feb 14, 2019)

I just LOVE this site. I’m gaining so many ideas, tips, and information from everyone in here. As long as we keep enough animals put in OUR freezer, fridge, pantry, and on OUR table we should be able maintain a frugal and adequate existence. Jim and I both have so many skills to draw upon. We can do things like repairs, small building projects like a small shed or garage, animal houses, finding/buying/picking free or dirt cheap items to fix or repurpose. Things that we could use, sell, trade, barter. House repairs like roofs, siding, light electrical and plumbing. Wood cutting/tree services, Vehicle repair. The list of options is pretty limitless. My husband and I have both have tinker abilities.All of this stuff could be used to make pocket change to our life now. But in the event of economic struggles for our region or country all of these “tinker” skills may possibly be very beneficial in some fashion. Combine that with my baking, cooking, sewing, and medical experience from nursing I’m thinking if not hoping we will have something to draw from to cover the bare minimum expenses needed to survive. Animals/livestock may or may not need to be a factor or resource. I might be naive but I wouldn’t think it should take us much to keep a small 4-wall and a roof structure dry and warm, a clunker, outhouse, food and a couple of pets in our life. I am serious about being able to live very small, frugal, off-grid. It wouldn’t be a hardship, possibly a struggle or challenge, but not undoable if worse turned into worst.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 14, 2019)

Sheepshape said:


> Farming USA sounds much like farming UK. Big businesses make money, smallholders scrape along.(the exceptions are those who have cornered the market for rare breeds/cider/cheese/ice cream etc making or stuff like that.)
> 
> I just about break even with my 80 sheep (but may not after Brexit), but lose on my 40 or so chickens (I sell a few eggs, but being veggie my roosters only provide free food for friends and my spoilt dog). To achieve this unenviable position I work many unpaid hours each week. However I  love my animals and wouldn't be without them. Mercifully, I don't have to try to rely on them for income.
> 
> ...


Yes, supporting a lifestyle is quite desirable after we are done punching time clocks. But knowing we could survive with....if .....we’re to happen is the ultimate security in my mind. I have no problem with a meager existence, but the thought of starving to death and homelessness scares the bageebers out of me.


----------



## Carla D (Feb 14, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Keep in mind that what you want to do is choose wisely. Pigs would be a good choice  because they do not require all your time. If you spend every waking hour working yourself to death on your business, the joy will quickly leave and it may become a drudge.
> 
> My pig pen for feeder pigs. It could be improved on, such as making a loading chute.
> 
> ...


I love the sugarmtnhills site. I’m going to have fun digging around in it. I going to look into blogs. I have no clue about them other possibly being similar to an online journal of sorts. It might be something to think about doing. I have two Facebook groups/pages where I’m documenting the life and grown of my daughter, and the second is the process of our cabin property. Do you do Facebook?


----------



## Carla D (Feb 14, 2019)

Piper and poodle seem to have a visual challenge. I’ve never seen such big ears that covered the eyes of their pig.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Feb 14, 2019)

I worked a lot of hours last year for the privilege of earning  -$1548


----------



## Baymule (Feb 14, 2019)

Carla D said:


> I love the sugarmtnhills site. I’m going to have fun digging around in it. I going to look into blogs. I have no clue about them other possibly being similar to an online journal of sorts. It might be something to think about doing. I have two Facebook groups/pages where I’m documenting the life and grown of my daughter, and the second is the process of our cabin property. Do you do Facebook?


Glad that you like the site. I have a FB but I don't do much on it. Most people post stupid crap that gets sent over and over. My brother in law is always posting something dumb to my timeline. 



Carla D said:


> Piper and poodle seem to have a visual challenge. I’ve never seen such big ears that covered the eyes of their pig.


I love Hereford Hogs!


----------

