# Breeding Question



## Hobby Farm

I am to the point where I am thinking about the future of how I am going to breed my does.  What are the general rules as far as breeding Father to daughter, ect.  Are they like chickens which can be line breed to a certain point?  Or is any close relationship a no-no?


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## ksalvagno

Definitely no father/daughter, mother/son type of breedings. I would want at least 3 generations away. My personal choice is to stay away from line breeding.

Maybe someone who line breeds is on here and can give you some better info.


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## aggieterpkatie

There's a difference in in-breeding and line-breeding.  I'd do some research on the two types so you can make a decision on your breedings.


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## lupinfarm

It's a very fine line between line-breeding and in-breeding. I personally do not intend on doing it, and I recommend others don't either.


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## cmjust0

Yeah...if they come out cycloptic with five legs and two tails, it was inbreeding.  

  j/k (mostly).  

In all fairness, I have read that goats are -- for whatever reason -- less susceptible to the pitfalls of inbreeding than other animals seem to be.


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## lilhill

I haven't done it, but ... I've seen one buck that is so heavily inbred (literally) that at a large goat show, the Judge told the owner/breeder, "That is the most perfect buck I have ever seen."  Guess the inbreeding/linebreeding worked.


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## michickenwrangler

Depends how it is done.

If you breed junk to junk, you're going to get junk no matter how it's related.

If you breed good to good, same thing.

Line-breeding and in-breeding can accentuate good traits and bad. Say for instance you have a doe with crappy hooves, you would want to find a buck with good hooves to improve that. However, if this same doe is a low producer and this buck with good hooves is also from low production lines, it will be worse in the offspring.

Also, breeding son to mother or daughter to father makes the resulting offspring 3/4 instead of half of the grandsire or granddam. I would do this ONLY if the grandsire or granddam in question was a stellar once-in-a-lifetime animal, almost perfect.

Hope this helps


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## Roll farms

When I started breeding goats I kept ditching perfectly good bucks because I felt the same way...We're conditioned to NOT inbreed most animals.
I'd get some daughters out of a buck, and would need a new buck to breed to them, and just starting out, I didn't have enough of a need to keep 2 or 3 bucks....so I'd ditch dad, use the new guy for a year or so until I got more does (daughters of mr. new buck) and....then need a new buck again.

After a LOT of talking w/ breeders, researching, etc...I've decided that Choas gets to breed his daughters.  He's out of great lines, his dam's a great milker / beautiful udder, and he has improved quite a few 'high ended' does' kids.  (My worst conformation issue to date.)

Next year he'll be bred to Doodlebug, his daughter.

Doodle (Doodlebug's dam) is completely unrelated to him, and I'm confident that's enough of an "outcross" to make the "inbreed" ok.

I wouldn't then take a kid from that breeding and breed it back to him, though.  I would also not breed littermates (same dam and sire).

There is a place on ADGA's website where you can check a goat's inbreeding, it's a "good thing" if they are inbred a lot to some goat or other who was a high-producer or show winner.

This is my buck's dam....
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=N001333549

This is my buck....
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=N001454061

This is what the offspring of Doodlebug and Chaos will look like
http://www.adgagenetics.org/PlannedPedigree.aspx

As a good friend / show breeder / lady w/ MUCH more experience w/ line breeding than I have put it, "What better way to prove his udder-making prowess than to use him on his daughter and then evaluate the udder of that offspring?"

I no longer think it's "just wrong" and am willing to try it to see if I end up w/ kids that continue the trend of improvement.


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## michickenwrangler

Nearly all breeds of any animal have been inbred to some degree or another to lock in traits.

Inbreeding is quite common in horses, especially Arabians, Thoroughbreds and Lippizans.

I think we tend to think of inbreeding as producing slack-jawed rat-faced yokels or semi-insane hemophiliac nobles, but if done responsibly with pedigree research, it shouldn't be something to be afraid of.

Half-siblings bred to one another is a common practice since each one is only "half dad" or "half mom" and it will lock in traits and had some vigor.


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## warthog

I have been giving this subject a lot of thought recently, because I think all my three goats are bred, and I have only one buck.

I have been thinking along the lines of half sister to half brother.

Then I got to thinking what would happen in the wild?

Anyone any thoughts on this.


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## aggieterpkatie

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> It's a very fine line between line-breeding and in-breeding. I personally do not intend on doing it, and I recommend others don't either.


I wouldn't say it's a fine line.  I worked at a well known cattle farm that's been line breeding their cattle for many generations.  A TON of thought goes into each breeding. They know what they're doing, and it's worked VERY well for them.


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## RockyToggRanch

I've used that adga pedigree search. It gives you an option of matching 2 of your goats before you breed and tells you the % inbred. I thought that was way cool but what % is good or bad?


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## Roll farms

I've seen some folks on the Nubian Talk sight that think high percentages of inbreeding are good, to a good buck or doe...one who's sired or produced many show winners or does high in production.
On the same note, though...a goat w/ a high percentage of inbreeding to a dud, would NOT be good.
It depends on what they're inbred to.


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## ksacres

There's an old saying in goat breeding:
"If it works-it's linebreeding, if it doesn't-it's inbreeding."

And there's a lot of truth to that.  There is no better way to improve a herd than by linebreeding, and there's no better way to ruin one than by linebreeding.  

You will find that most high quality herds do a fair amount of inbreeding/linebreeding.  It's the easiest way to cement the traits you want and pretty much the only way to get any level of consistency in offspring.  Unfortunately, along with the good traits, bad traits will also be set, so that is why it's extremely important to (no matter the level of relation) never breed two goats that have the same _fault_ together.

Also, no matter the relationship, if you breed scrub to scrub, you are always going to get scrub.  Excellent quality goats don't just "happen".  So start with the best quality you can find, and always breed your doe to a buck that's better than she is.  You will save yourself time and money and heartache in the long run.  Best piece of advice on breeding in general:  just because a buck has the proper equipment doesn't mean he should be using it.


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