# alfalfa hay



## hoosiergal (Dec 11, 2009)

which cutting of alfalfa hay is the best? my goats love this stuff.


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## lupinfarm (Dec 11, 2009)

I buy an alfalfa mix, I buy second cut because it has more alfalfa in it. Lovely stuff, but my poor girls need to finish the bale of grass hay I had them on because I couldn't find alfalfa hay. Finally found some though! And it's BEAUTIFUL stuff.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 11, 2009)

Most of the time goats like second or third cutting hay whether it is grass or alfalfa.


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## miron28 (Dec 13, 2009)

can male goats eat alfalfa hay too?. or is this just for the girls? i thought i read it some where that male goats should not eat alfalfa hay but i don't remember where i read this. thanks


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## cmjust0 (Dec 14, 2009)

Alfalfa contains a lot of calcium, and calcium is your friend when it comes to avoiding urinary calculi.  One of our former members actually used to use straight alfalfa hay to offset poorly balanced feed to avoid urinary calculi...and it apparently worked.

I wouldn't hesitate at all to feed alfalfa hay to a male.


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## ksalvagno (Dec 14, 2009)

I'm currently using alfalfa hay for everyone because I just happen to have a lot of it. My problem with alfalfa hay is that there is a lot of waste. If I didn't already have the hay, I would probably feed a grass/alfalfa mix. But I'm not finding any problems with feeding all my goats, including males, the alfalfa hay.


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## cmjust0 (Dec 14, 2009)

If your goaties are being wasteful with hay, you might consider offering less hay at a time to create a bit more of a sense of urgency among the herd to EAT instead of pick.  They're capable of it, as is witnessed everytime the grain comes out.  They beat each other to death for grain because they know it's here and gone lickity split, and if they don't get it now, they don't get it at all.

As for hay wastage...we used to find that alfalfa/grass mix was the most wasteful hay we could feed.  They'd always manage to cherry pick the alfalfa and throw the grass hay on the ground.  We switched to straight alfalfa for a while, but then it seemed they were prone to eating only the finer parts and making big tumbleweeds out of the courser, stemmy parts..  We tried straight grass hay to limit their temptation to cherry pick and they just looked at us like "What the hell is _this_ crap?!?"  For a long time there it was lose/lose no matter what you did, so we just kinda went...well...grass mix is almost as cheap as straw, so we'll just call it "hay + free bedding."  

Here lately, though, they've actually been doing a pretty decent job of just eating whatever we throw.  The hay we have lately is a grass mix...there's a little alfalfa in some bales, and there's quite a bit of clover...but it's mostly grass, much of which they 'usetowould' have thrown on the ground..

After realizing that they're not being as wasteful lately and kinda thinking it over, I believe their newfound efficiency has everything to do with the fact that there's just more goat in front of the same amount of hay.  We're not necessarily using more hay than we did when these goats were younger, as we're still just filling an empty or mostly empty feeder once a day...twice, if the weather's keeping them in the barn.  Instead of the feeder being empty and surrounded by scads of freshly wasted hay like it used to be, though...these days it's just empty.

I think the difference is that they're burying up and trying to out-eat one another, having acquired a sense of urgency that comes with the realization that this particular resource is less "unlimited" than it used to be.  Not to mention, they're physically bigger now, so the space in front of the feeder is more limited.  Like, if you find a good spot, you'd better keep it, because if you decide to back out and wander around for a minute, you might not be able to wedge your way back in.  

In fact, we have to throw and 'fluff' (yeah, I know... :/ ) their hay while they're eating their grain.  If you don't and they finish their grain first...what a pain.  They RUN to the bunk when they're grain's finished and they WILL.NOT.MOVE for you to bust a flake and scatter it.  You'll get griped at for busting flakes while they're eating...you hear these little grunty noises from under a big shock of hay if you're still moving hay around, and they'll occasionally throw their head at you like "THIS IS MY SPOT!  GET YOUR OWN!"


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## ksalvagno (Dec 14, 2009)

Actually, the goats eat the alfalfa hay better than the alpacas. They do eat all the leaves and some of the stems. My problem is that there are still a lot of stems left. I do use it for bedding so it is not totally wasted. I just like my grass hay better because everyone eats almost all to all of it and there is little to no waste including the hay in the goats area.


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## ThornyRidge (Dec 14, 2009)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> As for hay wastage...we used to find that alfalfa/grass mix was the most wasteful hay we could feed.  They'd always manage to cherry pick the alfalfa and throw the grass hay on the ground.  We switched to straight alfalfa for a while, but then it seemed they were prone to eating only the finer parts and making big tumbleweeds out of the courser, stemmy parts..  We tried straight grass hay to limit their temptation to cherry pick and they just looked at us like "What the hell is _this_ crap?!?"  For a long time there it was lose/lose no matter what you did, so we just kinda went...well...grass mix is almost as cheap as straw, so we'll just call it "hay + free bedding."


   seriously did you come over and talk with my goats??!?!  I get the "what the hell is this crap look?" periodically myself.. I have actually resorted to three different hay sources with a different blend of grasses, alfalfa and clovers... few weeds thrown in there too... and my nifty little bunch of goats cherry picks for the alfalfa chaff, clover and timothy grass and basically spit out orchard grass and stems..  I have cut down the amount I give as mine are fed morning and night and with winter coming on I have started feeding grain again at night... however I notice noone is more wasteful than my bucks!!!!  they got at least the equivalent of one bale strewn around in their pen and kicked outside and it was only about a month ago I totally stripped out their pen.. wasteful little suckers!!!


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## MrsCountryChick (Dec 14, 2009)

Mine are picky too.  We're feeding 2nd cutting grass/clover mix (with some alfalfa mixed in). & they leave the stems for 'last resort' eating at feeding time......... meanwhile the stall straw is one Very Delicious item anytime I'm spreading it around..........so what's the bid deal with stems when they eat the straw???  Crazy Dairy Goats.


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## Bring (Jan 7, 2010)

I feed my girls free choice alfalfa.  I started them on grass hay but they didn't like it much and the wind here in New Mexico is just crazy.  The alfalfa stays together better. They eat the stems after all the leaves are gone.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm feeding mine second cutting Max Q fescue and they love it!  And it was cheap too!  Only $3/bale out of the field because I used to work at the farm.  Most grass hay around here is at least $5/bale.


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## Sweet Cheeks (Jan 7, 2010)

My goats are just wierd compared to all of yours.

When I got my 6 month old nubians - wether and doeling back in Oct, they had been eating local hay.  I bought a bale and they wouldn't eat it.  They ate my HUGE weeping willow instead.  

When they had the willow pruned to look like an umbrella, they would eat very little of the hay, so I bought 3rd cutting alfalfa.  

They love the stems.  I end up with a fine pile of the little leaves that fell off the stems.  The chickens and little wild bunny that comes out at night like the fine little leaves, so it all works at my place.


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## Ariel301 (Jan 12, 2010)

I buy whatever alfalfa is cheapest since the prices here are outrageous. 'Horse quality' alfalfa bales are between $9-15 here, so I have a dealer who will deliver what he calls 'cow hay' to me for about $5-7 a bale, and he picks out the best ones for me, so I get no mold. It's weedy, but that's what the goats would eat anyway, given their choice. Let out of their pens, they pick the most awful looking weeds and dead brush to munch on. Makes my mouth hurt watching them! 

They don't waste the alfalfa too much, unless I give them a lot and let them eat all they want. If I give them small meals throughout the day, it all gets vacuumed up quick. 

The last load of hay I got, they delivered bermuda grass by mistake, and I wasn't about to make them come back and remove two tons of hay and then bring me some new, so I'll just feed them that. They give me that same 'what the heck?!' look too lol! They definitely waste about half what I give them of that, but whatever is wasted goes for bedding in their sheds and the chicken coops, and then when that gets too nasty, it goes to the garden for mulch, so it all gets used one way or another.

I feed alfalfa to my buck, and so far so good. But I think the calcium could cause problems...I was told with some horses I should not feed straight alfalfa because they are more prone to intestinal calculi from the calcium, especially Arabs, supposedly, so I fed my horse grass hay only (she was always overweight anyway and needed to be on the least rich feed we could get). And I know too much calcium intake can give people kidney stones...so I keep an eye on him just to be safe.


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## cmjust0 (Jan 12, 2010)

Ariel301 said:
			
		

> I feed alfalfa to my buck, and so far so good. But I think the calcium could cause problems...I was told with some horses I should not feed straight alfalfa because they are more prone to intestinal calculi from the calcium, especially Arabs, supposedly, so I fed my horse grass hay only (she was always overweight anyway and needed to be on the least rich feed we could get). And I know too much calcium intake can give people kidney stones...so I keep an eye on him just to be safe.


Calcium aids in the uptake of phosphorus...  Phosphorus is a key component in the formation of struvite, or MAP stones -- magnesium ammonium _phosphate_.  In the vast majority of cases, urinary calculi in goats is struvite.

That's why most goat feeds contain twice as much calcium as phosphorus...to help prevent to much phosphorus from going straight into the urinary tract where it could potentially precipitate into struvite crystals.

Long and short...alfalfa is really good for bucks, especially if they're receiving supplemental grain.  

Not so long ago, we had one member here who noted that she fed A LOT of grain to her meat market wethers, and the only way she could consistently _prevent_ urinary calculi was to accompany the grain with free-choice straight alfalfa.


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## Ariel301 (Jan 12, 2010)

Well, that's good to know! I knew about calcium/phosphorus ratios, but didn't know that goat calculi were different from people calculi like that. My mom got kidney stones shortly after she had me, because her doctor kept stressing taking vitamin supplements while she was pregnant, and she overdid the calcium since she was afraid she wasn't getting enough. 

Bucky will be very pleased to hear he can eat all the alfalfa he likes and 'goat-mom' doesn't have to worry about him.


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## cmjust0 (Jan 12, 2010)

Ariel301 said:
			
		

> Well, that's good to know! I knew about calcium/phosphorus ratios, but didn't know that goat calculi were different from people calculi like that. My mom got kidney stones shortly after she had me, because her doctor kept stressing taking vitamin supplements while she was pregnant, and she overdid the calcium since she was afraid she wasn't getting enough.
> 
> Bucky will be very pleased to hear he can eat all the alfalfa he likes and 'goat-mom' doesn't have to worry about him.


Ahh, but kidney stones are _totally different_ than urinary calculi..  You see, UC (haha) forms in the bladder -- not the kidney.  You sorta have to have a situation where the pH of the urine is too high (too basic...not acid enough), and where the concentration of magnesium, ammonia, and phosphorus is high enough to precipitate into crystals.  

If you've ever seen struvite UC from a goat, it's sorta sandy in nature..  Thousands of tiny crystals that clump and clog everything up..  More like sand than a rock...like a urethra full of sand. 

I know, right?  

I had a buckling with UC and he's still living, but the near-fatal mistake we made was not being aggressive enough in treating the accompanying inflammation.  Sand + urethra...I'm sure you can imagine.  

If I had to do it all over again -- which I hope I never do -- a UC case at my place would immediately get ammonium chloride, a shot of acepromazine (smooth muscle relaxer), penicillin, one shot of banamine, and several days worth of _dexamethasone_.  

The dex came too late for my guy...permanent damage.  But, he's alive and doesn't seem to be terribly worse for the wear.  He dribbles, but...well, he doesn't seem to mind being a dribbler.

I learned _a lot_ from him, though.


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## Mini-M Ranch (Jan 13, 2010)

I get the "what the hell?" look when I try to put electrolytes in the water.  They give me this skeptical look like, "No way, lady.  I ain't drinkin' your magic potion."  lol

I feed only alfalfa hay right now, although I am getting nervous that it will run out at the end of February.  This is our first winter with goats, and I grossly underestimated the amount of hay we would need. (Yes, I am so dumb that I assumed they would eat the same amount of hay in winter as in summer, neglecting to account for "browse" - life IS more difficult when you do dumb things).  It is 2nd cutting and it is very lovely with fine leaves (that fall out of the feeder and confetti the ground).  They like the fat stems.  They like the leaves. They like it all. lol.  

The breeder where I got two of my girls said that she doesn't feed alfalfa hay because she thinks it is "too hot" - but from what I have read here and on other websites, that doesn't seem to be the case.  I guess when the hay runs out, they will just have to take what they can get. lol.

Our buck, Drifter (aptly named), gets straight alfalfa hay, and the occasional Honey Comb cereal from my daughter.  lol.


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## Roll farms (Jan 13, 2010)

I agree w/ giving them less to make less waste.   It's like a buy one get one sale at K mart....even if they don't need it, they've just GOT to have it.

Our feeder allows for ea. goat to stand side by side and eat...but there are a few smarties who've figured out that if they stand sideways, and work their way across their width, they get more hay...the heifers.

Another thing that helped...My husband replaced the old wood slat hay bars in the feeder with 4x4 goat panels so that they can't pull out as much, too.

Now I actually have to put straw down (they used to waste enough that it wasn't necessary), and we only need to clean the stall out half as often as we used to.


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## MrsCountryChick (Jan 14, 2010)

Mini-M Ranch said:
			
		

> I guess when the hay runs out, they will just have to take what they can get. lol.


Sometimes in the Feb, March & April you'll see last years hay sell for not too bad of a price (on sale if you will  ) .....so farmers can have their barn emptied for new spring hay. A local country feed store sells hay for $5.00 a bale until about Feb, March or April (depending on how much hay they have to get rid of to empty their barn out)....... for a lesser price of $2.00 So you may wanna check out local paper ads or feed shops (very few sell hay it seems) & you may get a good deal to finish our your winter months of hay feeding.


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