# How to get started?



## DellaMyDarling (Aug 24, 2019)

I know, it's recommended to go get some books and read up...but that's why we invented forums 
(I will, get the books, and read up over the winter.)

I am hoping that next summer I can begin a meat rabbit operation.
I never plan to show, but I do want a dual purpose rabbit breed that can fetch me money as pets as well as our own meats.
I've been trying to research for months and just coming up empty handed on answers.
I understand I likely want a breeding trio, but I am also hoping to keep my start up costs minimal.

1. What breeds do you recommend as a dual purpose pet and meat? I wish to avoid the freaky red eye business.

2. I keep seeing rabbit cages for sale, but I feel like they are too small to be kind. Give me the low down on true rabbit cage needs (probably talking the bigger breeds.)

3. Along with the above question, I felt like my breeders should enjoy pasture time. I picture rabbit tractors to move around either for day use or even built for full time cages (if I did a full time tractor, I'd make a paver stone parking spot so nothing digs under at night to eat my buns.) Is this fantasy land rabbitry? And, suddenly occurred to me, what does one do in the winter? New England mountain weather here.

4. What do you feel is a realistic start up cost to a rabbitry, presuming I do not have a darn thing to get started with? (We often can gather building materials of all sorts free or cheap.)

5. Is there risks or dangers to buying rabbit goods or rabbits themselves off Craigslist?


Thanks


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 24, 2019)

Hello DellaMyDarling,   I will try to answer your questions  as we raise meat rabbits also...

1...New Zeland , yes they have the pink eyes but are excellent breeders, great pets and "the preferred " rabbit meat sold to cruise ships and restaurants. ..here anyhow...

2.   44"legnth x36" deep and 18" high is what we built, we used hardware cloth, they are 4' off the ground, posts are PT and in the ground 4' ...roof is slanted toward the back for water drainage and is a metal roof., sliding bolt locks, and a 18" square tile inside for  resting, cooling or warming, we also built plywood boxes  inside for shelter and kindling,

3. I dont let mine on the ground, fleas, ticks, parasites...I want my meat clean....
New England weather, build inside a shed,  garage, barn....or outside,  but use wind breaks and be prepared to bring kits inside during extremely  cold weather..

4. I would think if you are "handy"  and you gather the wood and roofing materials, your biggest purchase would be the hardware cloth.....so possible  total  $300 ?   We can get NZ rabbits here for $10 each ...

5. I have found all of my rabbits to breed ...off of  craigslist....New Zeland doe's  (2 unrelated)  1 buck unrelated, same with my Flemish giants.
I just bred my FG female with the NZ buck for a larger meat breed 

Hope this is of some help to you,  others that are into more pet breeds may have other rabbits to suggest for you...I can only tell you about our area and what works well here ....good luck


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## Pastor Dave (Aug 24, 2019)

The Dutch breed works ok as a meat breed, especially when bred to a NZ or Californian, and I think are good pet rabbits to sell. They don't get quite as big as the two above mentioned breeds, but even pure bred Dutch have big enough offspring to process. Now you can even get a variety in colors in Dutch that didn't used to be recognized when I had them.


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## Pastor Dave (Aug 24, 2019)

I do not like the idea of putting rabbits on the ground where they can come in contact with too many harmful things. Predators not even included. Give them some hay and leave them in a dry and windless place, especially in the winter. Air movement is ok for Summer.

I use nest boxes on real cold winter days that even the males can burough in the straw to stay warm. A meat pen can keep each other warm.

Costs vary. You can buy the hardware mesh in rolls to build your cages. Just use a 1/2"×1" for the bottom and 1"×2" for sides and tops. You can get J clips for attaching and hinges for doors. Buy fastners for the latches in a bunch.

A lot of initial costs will be one time, but you need feeders and waterers, a good 16% protein milled alfalfa pellet and straight grass or orchard hay. A good roll of wire comes in handy for repairs and just abt anything. I use 2Tb/gallon of water of ACV (apple cider vinegar) Helps with urinary tract and is beneficial in lots of ways. There's lots of additional techniques and tricks that you will learn along the way.


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## DellaMyDarling (Aug 25, 2019)

Lots of good info.

So, I really shouldn't tractor them? Do your buns not see the outdoors?
Where do y'all put your cages? Pics of set ups?
I don't have room in my animal barn for buns, and worried how mad the Mister would be if I started to take over his barn haha. I might be able to convince him to give me a spot in upstairs of barn, but I'm stuck on the notion of rabbits on grass.

Would the rabbits be pleased with goat quality hay?


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 25, 2019)

I use goat hay for all my animals,.....you also need to think about the rabbit poo and pee....the poo isn't bad, the pee stinks, and it can pile up fast, so upstairs in the barn probably  won't  work for you....but it is great for the garden....
Honestly,, try just starting  off with a few and see how they sell, process some and eat it......you may find you don't  like the processing or the meat, and change to a pet breed only


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 25, 2019)

....remember  we are in Florida,


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 25, 2019)

Mr. WILSON'S  house 

...the flemish giant


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## Pastor Dave (Aug 25, 2019)

When I looked at our new place, I wanted a barn for mechanical and shop purpose and animal use, so mine is still getting organized, but where you see the rabbits, I plan to put up cattle panels and stalls for goats that are coming. I am also putting up a wall between the animal side and shop side.


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 25, 2019)

I am having barn envy , that sure will be a nice set up


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## Pastor Dave (Aug 25, 2019)

The interior is abt 50'x25' and I was going to go 1/3 animal and 2/3 shop, but I don't want to wish later for more room for animals. I am not a mechanic or welder, fabricator, or repairman, but I tinker. I have room for a work bench and storage of one of my vehicles, economy tractor and mower, utility trailer and tools, so may go 1/2 and 1/2. I plan to use masonry drill and shoot in some threaded studs for floor sill plate and frame a wall with a locking man door. I also am working on some ventilation fans and a sliding door for the goats and a dog to come in and out. I have room for feed, hay and straw, and supplies, plus want to milk in there too. Hoping the size will all work out. The insurance company only showed it being covered for $10,000. I said it would take much more than that to replace it, so they changed the coverage to $20,000. I don't think that's enough either, but it's a start, and there's already a nice concrete floor. Hope the thing outlasts me and I don't have to worry abt it.


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## DellaMyDarling (Aug 25, 2019)

For sure!
We didn't design any of our buildings, they were with the property but very recently built so we're quite lucky even if they aren't designed perfectly for our desires.

BB, your buns set up is so tidy and nice, but unfortunately I'm in New England in the mountains. I'm afraid I have to go more complex. Since I don't have the ability to put buns in either current building, I think we should build a three sided shelter like what my goats currently have. I'll have to get a pic tomorrow.
So their shelter will need a removable winter 2/3 wall added. I'm imagining similar for rabbits. Three sided open for nice weather and a 2/3 4th wall to break all winter wind and allow warmth to build. Sounds like it'll have to be significantly larger than the goat shelter though


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 25, 2019)

DellaMyDarling said:


> For sure!
> We didn't design any of our buildings, they were with the property but very recently built so we're quite lucky even if they aren't designed perfectly for our desires.
> 
> BB, your buns set up is so tidy and nice, but unfortunately I'm in New England in the mountains. I'm afraid I have to go more complex. Since I don't have the ability to put buns in either current building, I think we should build a three sided shelter like what my goats currently have. I'll have to get a pic tomorrow.
> So their shelter will need a removable winter 2/3 wall added. I'm imagining similar for rabbits. Three sided open for nice weather and a 2/3 4th wall to break all winter wind and allow warmth to build. Sounds like it'll have to be significantly larger than the goat shelter though




You might be able to make them similar to ours but make them in a block ( three in front, attached  to three in the back, get some old glass windows to let sunlight in and make wooden shutteres (plywood painted ) to drop and lock for winter ...just a thought...
.very familiar with The mountians of N H , grew up there., kkkkkcold


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## Beekissed (Aug 25, 2019)

DellaMyDarling said:


> Lots of good info.
> 
> So, I really shouldn't tractor them? Do your buns not see the outdoors?
> Where do y'all put your cages? Pics of set ups?
> ...



Don't lose that notion.  Many people tractor rabbits and I have done so without any issues with fleas or additional parasite issues.   You don't have to worry about animals digging in or bunnies digging out if you place good rabbit wire on the bottom of the tractors...the grass will poke up through if you have the tractor built right and have good pasture to place them on.  

You can start up slowly by watching the ads for people who get a pet rabbit at Easter and soon tire of caring for it...often I'll see cages and rabbits for free or really cheap.  One can slowly build up cage space that way and just conjoin your cages to make for bigger living situations.  

A buck and two does can get you into rabbits pretty quick and the NZ rabbits are easy breeders, have large litters that finish out well.  

For winter you could move them to a stationary pen situation, then tractor them again in warmer months.  Rabbits hanging over chickens is a nice setup for winter and a nice, composting deep litter situation works for both animals.


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 26, 2019)

L


Beekissed said:


> Don't lose that notion.  Many people tractor rabbits and I have done so without any issues with fleas or additional parasite issues.   You don't have to worry about animals digging in or bunnies digging out if you place good rabbit wire on the bottom of the tractors...the grass will poke up through if you have the tractor built right and have good pasture to place them on.
> 
> You can start up slowly by watching the ads for people who get a pet rabbit at Easter and soon tire of caring for it...often I'll see cages and rabbits for free or really cheap.  One can slowly build up cage space that way and just conjoin your cages to make for bigger living situations.
> 
> ...



 location, location, lol....can't  tractor in Florida way to many ground critters and parasites.....New England has some nasty  deer ticks and lots of hills and rocks, but if you got flat land and grass, tractor them if that's  what you want....just be sure to check for fleas and ticks espically if you have had a rainy summer.....happy rabbit trails to you


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## Baymule (Aug 26, 2019)

Post pictures of your existing buildings. It may be possible to extend a roof off the side of a building, then add sides. Hanging wire cages are the easiest to clean and maintain. In wood frame hutches the poop piles up in the corner and must be cleaned out regularly. Do you have chickens? I attached a chicken coop to my rabbitry, the chickens ate dropped Feed ( nothing for rats and mice to eat) fly larva and turned the poo, never a smell to it.


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## DellaMyDarling (Aug 26, 2019)

Baymule said:


> Post pictures of your existing buildings. It may be possible to extend a roof off the side of a building, then add sides. Hanging wire cages are the easiest to clean and maintain. In wood frame hutches the poop piles up in the corner and must be cleaned out regularly. Do you have chickens? I attached a chicken coop to my rabbitry, the chickens ate dropped Feed ( nothing for rats and mice to eat) fly larva and turned the poo, never a smell to it.




Hmm!
Turning over this idea.
My animal barn, runs attached, might just work.
We need to make a permanent roof for the winter over the kennel run. Can build in a fashion that hanging cages could be added.

I'll have to grab pics of this later. No service out in the field to direct post.

My chickens have had non stop issues with mites. Is this a potential tractor bunny issue? Coccidia is also a consistent battle with young animals here.
We have not had flea issues whatsoever, thankfully.


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## B&B Happy goats (Aug 26, 2019)

DellaMyDarling said:


> Hmm!
> Turning over this idea.
> My animal barn, runs attached, might just work.
> We need to make a permanent roof for the winter over the kennel run. Can build in a fashion that hanging cages could be added.
> ...



Mites and coccidia will affect rabbits.....keep the rabbits well above the chickens, ......like @Baymule  said , the chickens  are great at keeping the rabbit waste and bugs down


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## Beekissed (Aug 26, 2019)

DellaMyDarling said:


> Hmm!
> Turning over this idea.
> My animal barn, runs attached, might just work.
> We need to make a permanent roof for the winter over the kennel run. Can build in a fashion that hanging cages could be added.
> ...



What kind of mites?  I'm thinking you may need a composting deep litter system to help you get them onto cleaner soils if you can't free range them.    

Would solve a lot of those issues with coccidia, though breeding a stronger chicken will help also, as well as getting chicks on the CDL as soon as possible.   Feeding medicated feeds does next to nothing for that issue.


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## Baymule (Aug 26, 2019)

You put a half of an eye dropper of mineral oil in the rabbits ears once a month to keep mites away.


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## DellaMyDarling (Aug 27, 2019)

Here's what I've got going on for bird setup.

The plan is to erect timber framing around the chain link kennels, use the timbers to support framing over the kennels for metal roofing sheets.
Very temporary tarp erected over one run.
She's a big hot mess, but work in progress.

So, now you can see it, does it still seem possible to hang rabbit cages in these runs? Imagining several wood beams going across the kennels for the roof support, I'm thinking that's what I could hang the rabbit cages from. I have never seen a hanging cage, I'll have to Google it.


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## Baymule (Aug 27, 2019)

You need to build the roof high enough to walk in. If I get this right, you mean to enclose the timber frame with the kennel panels. Basically, build a barn with a walk-in high roof, use the panels to predator proof it. 

You will need at least one solid wall to block winter wind. You want to keep the sun from beaming in on them. In the summer they can overheat and die from heat stroke. You can cover the outside walls from the top down, level with the bottom of the cages, then wire from there to the ground. That will keep the sun off them. You need the wire at the bottom for ventilation. You can cover it in the winter if your winters are severe. The front panel and the gate would be great, put it on the south side, the sun rises in the east, sets in the west, and the cold winter wind comes from the north. 

Instead of building your barn to fit the kennel, build the barn to fit your needs and use the panels where possible. You will be a lot happier with the results. 

Where do you live, general location? You can add that to your avatar.  Knowing your climate would help in advising you on building your barn.


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## DellaMyDarling (Aug 28, 2019)

We will not be able to move any kennel panels, they're staying put. A timber frame will be erected on the outside to make support for a roof.
I'm thinking maybe two cages in one run and three in the other. Five, yea? For a breeding trio? Gives a grow out or two or grow out and extra or...

Knowing the buns need side shelter as well, some cages could be against the barn wall in that currently tarped run, then I can add siding around as needed. The currently not covered run we'll need to be more creative, but that's what our scrap pile and the Mister's brain is for! I don't imagine things well, he's the resident engineer.


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## Pastor Dave (Aug 28, 2019)

The main thing to remember on rabbits is out of the wind and dry. A rabbit does pretty good in winter wearing its fur coat as long as you can keep it dry and keep the wind off them. A cold, wet rabbit is a dead rabbit. I mentioned before, a wooden box with drainage holes for the bottom, like a nest box, with straw to burrough in does great for single rabbits. A meat pen gets body heat from each other.

In the summer, air movement is beneficial. Use 2 or 3 liter bottles with water. Leave room for expansion and freeze. A fur coat in summer is bad. I give mine the frozen bottles if it hits abt 90degs or I see them panting. A floor tile that's been refrigerated or frozen helps to lie on too. 

Try to keep them in cool water for hot months. I use 32oz water bottles. Some use crocks and put in ice cubes. It gets dirtier a lot faster. In winter, they need thawed water at least twice a day. That may be as often as a wild rabbit drinks. I try to shoot for giving them thawed water mid day too. I usually just swap out with extra bottles from the house.

That should be enough to do ya for a while


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## Ron Bequeath (Aug 28, 2019)

Had rabbits in Ohio zone 5a and zone 5b,6a and have rabbits in zone 5b,6a in Pennsylvania. Always kept them outside seem to be more comfortable that way and being cooler could breed them all times of the year. Just keep drafts down in the winter and lots of hay and they seem to do great.


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## GypsyG (Sep 1, 2019)

I raise mostly meatmutts, but standard chinchilla rabbits keep my rabbitry bills paid.  They are laid back and calm, enjoy attention, don't require near as much feed to get them to butcher weight as Newzealands, have great meat to bone ratio and high quality pelts.  I don't know about where you are from, but here in MO, I have no problem getting $45 for an 8 week old kit, or $65 for any over 16 weeks old.


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## BranscumFarm (May 18, 2020)

DellaMyDarling said:


> I know, it's recommended to go get some books and read up...but that's why we invented forums
> (I will, get the books, and read up over the winter.)
> 
> I am hoping that next summer I can begin a meat rabbit operation.
> ...


I answered many of these questions on my channel.  And you might can find some other good info.
www.youtube.com/BranscumFarm

1. New Zealand (Red, black, and blue dont have red eyes,  Silver Fox heritage Reed good for meat and pelt, Californian they have red eye but good, Rex they come in all colors, smaller the first 3 but very nice fur. That would be my top 4.
2.  30 x 24 or 30 x 30 or 30 x 36 for does. I have short arms so I like 30 x 24 so I can reach the back of cage. 
24 x 24 for bucks.  This is inches.
That is minimum for large breeds. Grow outs can have bucks pulled and put in 30 x 30 cage. Does can stay with mom till butcher or put in a different 30 x 30 cage. 
I would not keep more then 4-5 together. Unless you have a larger pen and multiple feeders.
3. I dont have room for tractors.  Unless you have a pasture I would not recommend. 
4. If you can find someone getting out of rabbits you might find a good deal. If you are handy I would build. You can buy but I would make sure it is good quality wire. My tractor supply cages lasted about 3 years now they are getting rusted and falling apart.  The ones I built the same time still look like new. The wire matters. Dont go cheap on cages. Price really depends on where you live.
5. I would also buy good starting stock. You will save money in the long run on feed growing out the rabbits.  You can get cheap rabbits but spend on feed that they end up costing more. Good stock that hits 5 lb at 10 weeks will save you on cost in the long run.


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