# Help! Calf Down!



## cjc (Apr 21, 2016)

Well I just posted an adorable picture of my brand new calf and now I am in a bit of an emergency. It looks like mama has not nursed him since birth...that was 4 days ago. We thought that he was nursing, he has constantly been trying. So we assumed he was ok, as he was jumping around the first two days. Yesterday that seemed to change he was sleeping basically every time I went to see him, but I assumed the timing was just bad.

Today he tried to stand and was very wobbly, couldn't get up. Mama's udders are massive. I am assuming mastitis and have a vet on the way to look at her. My main concern is with this 4 day old calf. I think he just went 4 days without food. And received no colostrum from mama.

I offered him a bottle after I found him wobbly and he took to it immediately. I then gave him another bottle right after of the powdered colostrum. He chugged the whole thing. I bet if I offered him another bottle he would suck it back but I thought it may be best to wait for the vet.

I gave him a shot of Vitamin A, D, E and Selenium at birth.

What can I do to help this calf? Do you think he is too far gone now?

@WildRoseBeef your words of wisdom please!!!


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## babsbag (Apr 21, 2016)

I have no help, only words of encouragement. The fact that he drank a bottle is a good sign, but not colostrum is frightening and no sure what you can do about that after 4 days, hopefully someone else will have some advice for you.

Is it possible that her udder is just engorged and not mastitis? Goats will sometimes get wax plugs that have to be removed by hand milking before the kids can get any milk out. Hope the vet can fix her up for you.


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## TAH (Apr 21, 2016)

Here is a recipe that works very good.
1 egg 
2 cup milk
big drizzle of molasses 
1/2 cup warm water 
You can also use corn syrup as a replacement for molasses. 
A calf is normally dead first 8 hours without having any colostrum. If he lays down and wretches his head back make sure you keep him standing up. I would say if he has lasted this long he has a pretty good chance of making it. I hope he makes thru. Can you milk out the mom?


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## Latestarter (Apr 21, 2016)

Wow... so sorry! As above, probably too late for the colostrum now as that has to happen within the first 6-12 (24) hours  I would hand milk mom and make certain those orifices are clear and open. Be careful to not overfeed the calf as that could also cause problems, on top of the ones it's already dealing with. If the calf is eating, that's 1/2 the battle won. Pulling for you and the calf on this one. Best of luck!


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## norseofcourse (Apr 21, 2016)

Good luck to the little guy!


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## TAH (Apr 21, 2016)

He is the cutest thing ever. Make sure he stands up about every hour for about 15 minutes at a time. If he starts to get tired make him stand over a hay bale. One thing that really helps is spending time with them. Did you try molasses?


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## Latestarter (Apr 21, 2016)

He really looks thin. I hope you can get more milk into him (not TOO much, but what's right), I hope he continues to fight. Since you'll be milking momma anyway, you should try to use that to feed the calf as you can. I've heard quite a few complaints about using the replacers... Those being with healthy calves... Maybe just warmed regular whole milk from the grocery store would be better? You could add a bit of corn syrup or molasses to it for instant energy and to keep his attention...

Glad you got the vet out in time. Hope he makes it!  Good luck and we'll be watching for updates...


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## cjc (Apr 22, 2016)

Well he is still alive so that's a good sign. He is very bright in the face but still is having trouble standing/walking. Although, every time we checked on him in the night he was in a different spot in the barn stall, so he is definitely able to get up.

He took another bottle today. I am going to go to the feed store and get him more powdered colostrum. Its $40 a pack! But I think I will feed him another 2-3 over the next few days.

So about Mama....cant even believe I am typing this and this happened. Our farm sits beside a very busy road, basically a highway. Since we separated her from her baby last night. We had to, we moved the baby in the barn to keep warm and she is just too crazy to have in there or even get in there she was in the pasture alone. She decided to jump the fence and then continue to run through two barbwire fences. She is cut up on her back end, all over her back legs and hind. She ended up on that busy road. The Police came and long story short. We finally got her back.

Today I was going to get her in the squeeze and milk her to try and save her but I think we have no choice but to slaughter her. Not my choice but the family has spoken and I think she is on her way out. I feel very sad for her and the calf. I wish this was different but we are worried that we will not be able to keep her in the fence anymore. She also jumped right out of the chute yesterday. The fence was high...we were shocked.

I have a dairy farmer coming over today to look at the calf. I feel devastated for this calf.


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## Latestarter (Apr 22, 2016)

Wow... if it's not one thing it's another. Sorry you're dealing with all this.


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## samssimonsays (Apr 22, 2016)

I have no experience but I am deeply sorry you are going through all of this. I am glad no one was hurt with her on the road though.


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## cjc (Apr 22, 2016)

Yes thank god for that! She's a big girl we are very lucky no one got hurt. The friend came over and got her in the squeeze. Every true cattle rancher (I am not which is why I say that I'm way too soft) has told me to get rid of Mama or I am going to get hurt. I know its inevitable in this but I'm saddened for them. We have had her for about a year.

We are seeing improvement in the calf now but he is my baby to raise now. Farm life just got a little bit more complicated for us!


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## samssimonsays (Apr 22, 2016)

I completely understand where you are coming from. The decisions are so hard sometimes. But hopefully there will be a happy ending with the little guy pulling through!


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## TAH (Apr 22, 2016)

Yes it seems she is to wild to tame down. I'am sorry it had to turn out like this for you.


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## WildRoseBeef (Apr 22, 2016)

Did anybody else notice the abnormal shape of this calf's head or is it just me? Because that, right there, is the big red flag that something is wrong, and his dam knows about it too. With a dome-shaped head like that (*neuropathic hydrocephalus* or "water head"), he's going to be a dummy calf for the rest of his life, and because he's already affected in the brain and showing this with the weakness in the limbs and overall depression, among other symptoms. You need to look at this link: http://calfology.com/library/wiki/neuropathic-hydrocephalus-nh-quotwater-headquot and this: http://redangus.org/genetics/dna-tools/defects/NH He didn't get severely affected, but it is bad enough that he's not going to be a strong healthy calf. 

I'm sorry to say this but I don't believe there is anyway that you can save this calf. He may need to be euthanized for his own good, especially if his condition is going to worsen and he's going to start having seizures and weakening even more in the coming days or weeks.


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## WildRoseBeef (Apr 22, 2016)

Please, too, talk to a vet who knows more about this than I do and can give you guidance on what's best to do with this calf. Pulling a couple of links off the internet isn't going to do much to help you, not like an experienced LAV (large animal vet) can.


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## Pamela (Apr 22, 2016)

I too, suspect the calf is 'off'. The way he is holding his head indicates an issue to me.


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## TAH (Apr 22, 2016)

Glad to here is should live. He looks better in this pic than the other. Are your plans for mom the same?


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## cjc (Apr 22, 2016)

Yes mama will be slaughtered at the farm Wednesday. Our transporter says he doesn't want to load her alive sadly. 

Once mama is gone we plan to bond the calf with our Hereford cow big mama. She's big mama for a reason. She's dry right now as we just weaned her calf but she will provide this calf with some nurture. I will raise him and bring him into the barn at night until he is strong but I think it's good for him to get some big mama lovin


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## TAH (Apr 22, 2016)

I am sorry about your mama cow.


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## Latestarter (Apr 22, 2016)

Sorry you have to kill the mom, but she sounded really unstable and perhaps dangerous. I'm really glad that the calf is making a comeback! That's great news. That's really weird that 3 nipples had no orifice...  never heard of that before...  That had to be painful for mom being full of milk and no where for it to go... Could that have had something to do with her behavior maybe? Regardless, would you really pay to keep a cow with only one working nipple? Anyway, looking forward hopefully to future good new updates.


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## WildRoseBeef (Apr 23, 2016)

Those first pictures made it look like the calf's head was odd looking, and it wasn't the breeding I was looking at either. But it may have been the angle of the picture and the way the calf was holding his head that made me think that, and I think your vet would've said something about it too when looking at him. Sorry, he just seemed odd to me and I had to say something about it. 

In this new picture he looks more like a normal calf, like any normal calf should. I'm glad to hear he's getting better, so hopefully he will make a full recovery and be as bouncy and a schitzen-disturber as any healthy calf should be.  And again my apologies for jumping to conclusions on you. 

Too bad about his dam though, must've been some unnoticed genetic abnormality that caused her teats to be like that. Weird.


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## Ferguson K (Apr 24, 2016)

He's looking much better!


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## GLENMAR (Apr 24, 2016)

I'm raising a bottle beef calf too. It's not as time consuming as I thought is was going to be. Good luck.


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## cjc (Apr 25, 2016)

@GLENMAR yes its not as much work for me now that he is up and on his feet. Now I am trying to teach him to walk on a halter. That is hard haha.

How much are you feeding your bottle calf? I was just feeding 2x a day plus one bottle of electrolytes but I really feel like he needs more. I just gave him a big bottle of milk and he was crying out after so I gave him a bottle of electrolytes after. I am going to feed him another bottle of milk at noon and then again at 8pm. I also got him to eat a little calf starter this morning! He was confused but interested.


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## TAH (Apr 25, 2016)

We did a gallon a day of milk.


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## cjc (Apr 25, 2016)

Ah ok maybe I do need to give more than. With the mix I'm using it says feed 2x a day which is about 2 pints per feeding. There are 8 pints in a gallon. I bumped him up to 6 pints today plus the electrolytes. Will a calf just continue to drink and drink or will it stop when its had enough?


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## jhm47 (Apr 26, 2016)

The instructions on the milk replacer tags are correct.  Do not feel that these calves are not getting enough just because they seem to be hungry when you've fed them their bottle.  Overfeeding kills many more calves than underfeeding.  Calves are born with a "sucking reflex", and it takes up to 1/2 hour of sucking to satisfy it.  In watching my calves while they suck on their mothers, it takes 20 - 30 minutes for them to get done sucking.  Feeding with bottles rarely takes over 5 minutes, so these calves will act like they are ravenously hungry.  2 quarts of milk replacer fed twice a day is the correct amount.  Feeding more will only encourage a bad case of scours, and likely will necessitate an expensive vet bill, or worse.  Good luck!


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## cjc (Apr 26, 2016)

@jhm47 thank you! really appreciate the advice. I did give him one bigger bottle this morning, before your message, and I am really regretting it! I am just worried I messed him up now! Could one big bottle cause scours or is it many days of overfeeding that puts them at risk? This guy never got colostrum so I need to be really careful with him. When I went to check on him at lunch today he was a little quieter than normal and seemed to have a little limp in his step. I am trying to tell myself he just tripped or is tired but I worry about him. I lost a calf from this cow last year.

I will go back to my original schedule. 2 quarts at 6am, 2 quarts at 6pm. I have also been giving him electrolytes at lunch time. Is that ok or should I stop that? The reason I originally started was he was very ill but now that he is improved should I stop with the electrolytes?

I also have put a little bit of calf starter in his mouth in the morning after his feeding. Only a handful. At the feed store they had said its good to give him a handful like this starting at 1 week old, which was yesterday. He is 8 days old today. Bad idea or is this ok?

Sorry I am asking you a ton of questions because I really need the advice haha! He has only pooped 3 times since he has been born. Today he actually took two, which I was happy about haha. It is normal consistency but is yellowish in colour. Definitely not diarrhea. Is this normal? Maybe from the electrolytes?

I am just second guessing everything I am doing! I really want to give this little bull calf a good start at life.


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## Pamela (Apr 26, 2016)

Yellow, soft ploppy poo (think pudding consistency) is completely normal for a milk fed calf. If it gets watery, mucousy, bloody, then you have trouble. IMO, I would discontinue the electrolytes. They are costly, and if he is eating and pooping well they aren't necessary. However, if you don't want to give up the noon bottle, plain water will suffice. We've found that especially bigger calves and especially in warm weather a bottle of plain water midday was helpful in keeping them healthy and hydrated. We always used warm tap water. Hope the limp turns out to be nothing. Good luck!


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## jhm47 (Apr 26, 2016)

One extra large feeding can easily cause scours.  If he quits eating or gets lethargic and gets the "runs", you might be in trouble.  Doubt that the limp was caused by digestive issues.  The electrolytes would not be necessary unless he gets scours.  I'd allow him access to a bucket of plain water, and if he needs more hydration, he'll learn to drink from that.  The starter is fine, and I'd also give him access to some good quality grass hay.  Poop sounds about normal for an 8 day old. 

I'm in the middle of calving my herd.  Got another calf this AM.  Mostly bull calves so far this year.  Next week I'll start the AI season for one of my neighbors.  He synchronized them to be in heat on Tuesday.  Doesn't seem possible that AI season is already here.  A couple thousand cows/heifers signed up so far.


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## cjc (Apr 26, 2016)

@jhm47 well you've got me nervous! I gave him one double bottle today. Not a good idea hoping it doesn't affect him. He was a little lethargic but he was up when I went to visit him and it was 5 hours after the large feeding. He also pooped well I was giving him those electrolytes and like I said, no diarrhea. So hopefully he will be ok. How soon does scours surface? Would that poop be running already if I fed him the big feeding 5 hours prior or will it surface in a day or so?

Wow! That's a lot of heifers.


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## cjc (Apr 27, 2016)

Update on my calf. The limp I saw yesterday is joint ill. He was worse in the morning and his temperature went up to 103.8. I took him to the vet and they drained and flushed  his two back legs. He said I caught it really early. The liquid that came out just shot across the room and was yellow in colour. He said once it is white and completely puss filled it is a bad prognosis but he thinks I got it really early so fingers crossed I can pull him through this! He was given nuflor, trimidox and metacam. I am to give him these drugs for the next 5 days. 

Any advice on joint ill would be appreciated


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## jhm47 (Apr 28, 2016)

Pretty likely that you caught it in time.  Those are the drugs that my vet would have recommended.  Often the source of joint infections is a navel infection, however the nuflor should take care of that if the navel is compromised.  Sounds like this calf is getting pretty expensive for you.  Hope this is the last problem you'll have.  Good luck!


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## Latestarter (Apr 28, 2016)

Pampered calf huh?  His coat sure looks good! what shampoo do you use on him?


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## cjc (Apr 28, 2016)

@Latestarter haha no kidding! My cattle rancher friend with over a 1,000 cows told me yesterday I am the worst cattle raiser of all time in terms of my spend. But its not a business for me, it's a hobby really. I really love them haha.


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## Latestarter (Apr 28, 2016)

OK, so as I see it, you have some very lucky cows  Lucky for them you can afford it. Hey, as long as you're happy and doing what you want/love to do, everyone benefits!


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## cjc (Apr 28, 2016)

Amen to that!


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## TAH (Apr 28, 2016)

So happy he is doing good. He looks so happy being in the back seat.


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## GLENMAR (May 1, 2016)

Glad he's doing better. I'm feeding 2 quarts am and 2 quarts pm. Free choice hay, mineral block and a few hand fulls of calf starter grain. Mine is 10 weeks old now.


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## cjc (May 2, 2016)

@GLENMAR that's pretty much what I am doing I have only kept mine on electrolytes. Because of his joint ill I just want to make sure he is very hydrated and full of as much energy as I can give him. Now that my guy is up on his feet he is crazy for the bottle! He is so incredibly sweet. He's so trusting of me as soon as he sees me he comes running over and just tries to lick any part of my skin he can find haha. I am smitten with him!


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## TAH (May 4, 2016)

He is a adorable. He looks way better. It makes a difference when you put the to picks together.


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## Latestarter (May 4, 2016)

Quite the improvement! He looks a heckuvalot better  Hope the joint ill clears up pretty soon.


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## Pamela (May 4, 2016)

He looks like a completely different calf. Good job!


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## jhm47 (May 6, 2016)

It looks like the injection site has been overused.  NEVER inject in the same spot multiple times, or you will risk something like this.  Vary your injection sites and you'll not have this problem.


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## cjc (May 9, 2016)

@jhm47 thanks. I have never injected in the exact same spot, I don't think, but keep in mind that this is a 2 week old calf that has been on 3 types of IM injections for 9 days. You run out of space pretty quickly haha. He is done the meds now so hopefully this clears quickly.

I posted on another forum and got the advice that this is actually really common and to be expected on a young animal like this on this type of injection schedule. They suggested the Trimidox caused the irritation.

My calf's back joints are the slightest bit still gushy. I'd say 90% better. I hope that now that he is off the drugs he continues to make improvements.


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## TAH (May 16, 2016)

Our friend raise's milk cows and he ads the ones he is keeping with the rest of the herd when they are 4-5 months old.


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## cjc (May 17, 2016)

@TAH ok great thanks. Wow though...4-5 months on his own poor little guy. I sure hope another calf pops out soon so he has someone to join him! He just loves the company of the cows but now he can only have it through a fence.

What are your thoughts on putting him in with 2 of the big mama cows I have? They are both separated as they are due to calf soon. He was born in the field with the 2 big mamas.


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## TAH (May 17, 2016)

cjc said:


> What are your thoughts on putting him in with 2 of the big mama cows I have? They are both separated as they are due to calf soon. He was born in the field with the 2 big mamas.


I am not sure, but our friend he keeps the babys with mama cow 2 weeks, they are born in the field with the rest of the cows big and small. Have you taken him in there wit you and see how they and him react to each other?


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## cjc (May 17, 2016)

I did and they all just stare at me haha. He immediately runs for the udders. He was also trying to jump on them. Ever seen anything like that?

My concern is that he will get crushed. When I put him with our 6 month old steers they were really good for about 30 mins and then they just started chasing him and I could tell he was scared. He ran to the gate and I rescued him, poor guy.


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## TAH (May 17, 2016)

I would wait if he can't handle being in with the steers. When are the mama cows due? If any of them have twins you could bottle feed one and keep him in with it.


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## cjc (May 17, 2016)

I am not exactly sure when they are due it's a serious guessing game for me right now. They were exposed to a bull for 7 months and I think they all took. My heifer now has very developed teats so I think she will be within a month or two.

I pray for twins but haven't been lucky yet! That would be a great plan I sure hope that happens!

I was thinking of putting the word out to a few local ranchers that if they have a cow that has lost a calf I would be willing to buy her. After seeing him just rush to the udders I don't think it would take much if I had an established mama cow.

It's just sad for me, isolating him. He desires so much to be with the cows.


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## jhm47 (May 17, 2016)

It's perfectly natural for cows to reject calves that are not their own.  This is protection for their own offspring's milk.  If cows allowed any "strange" calf to suck, their own calf would be short-changed in the grocery department.  This is instinctual in nearly all species, and ensures that their genetics will survive into the next generations. 

I wouldn't worry about letting the calf in with the bigger cattle.  The others will soon teach him his boundaries, and things will settle down quickly.  While this may seem cruel, it's nature, and it will help him to become socialized as he grows older.

FYI:  Not all cows are able to provide enough milk to raise twins.  I have had a few that are able to do it, but they often don't breed back on time, and it takes a lot out of them as they age.  I had one cow that had 7 sets of twins in her lifetime.  NONE of them was a breedable heifer, and I so badly wanted one.


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## Bossroo (May 18, 2016)

Too,  any female calf that is a twin to a bull calf is a Free Martin and cannot become pregnant.  Instant hamburger !


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## cjc (May 18, 2016)

Wow I had no idea!

Question for everyone on one of my heifers. Her milk hasn't come in yet but her teats are more obvious. Her vagina area also just looks different, almost bigger. She's wide as ever and I am only assuming she is bred. I exposed her to a bull for 7 months.

Would her teats be obvious if she wasn't bred? Is that just her maturing?


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## jhm47 (May 20, 2016)

I'd palpate her and see if she's bred.  Not a big thing at all.  You can also get some idea of delivery date by the size of the feet and legs of the calf.  Another method is to gauge the size of the large artery on the right side of the pelvic girdle.  Just don't be too aggressive when you feel the calf, as you could possibly dislodge or separate the placenta from the wall of the uterus.  Oh---you might want to use a glove when palpating.  It's really not necessary, but---well, some are a bit squeamish about a little excrement on their arms.  Believe me, it does wash off!!!  I know from experience! LOL  And, it doesn't taste as bad as it smells (also from experience)!LOL X 2


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## cjc (May 20, 2016)

The problem with trying any of that with this heifer is she will not let me touch her. The only way would be to get her in the squeeze and she has never been in it. I have had mixed comments as to if it's safe for me to even put her in the squeeze if she is as far along as I think she is. I would also have to move her to the other pasture to get her in the squeeze haha, all these things that have me in the situation I am in now. Just hoping and praying  she's bred


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## jhm47 (May 20, 2016)

If she's a heifer she would be showing a huge udder development at least a month prior to calving.  The squeeze chute won't hurt her provided that you don't squeeze her body too tight.  We put them in up to a few days before calving to give shots etc., and no problems.


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## cjc (May 20, 2016)

Ok great. Well she has developed more obvious teats, before I couldn't even see them now I can. Her whole back end just looks different now, bigger. Like her vagina area, its larger for sure. Would she get these teats even if she wasn't bred? I have had a heifer that was just a beef cow that I never noticed teats on but it was also a different breed.


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## jhm47 (May 20, 2016)

It's always been my experience (55 years or so) that heifers will "bag up" waaaaay earlier than cows.  I notice the udder enlargement up to 2 full months ahead of calving.  And the size of the teats isn't always an indicator of whether she's bred or not.  Some heifers will show udder/teat development because of fat deposits.  Feedlot heifers that are really fat will often have large udders, and they are not bred.


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## cjc (Jun 20, 2016)

jhm47 said:


> It's always been my experience (55 years or so) that heifers will "bag up" waaaaay earlier than cows. I notice the udder enlargement up to 2 full months ahead of calving. And the size of the teats isn't always an indicator of whether she's bred or not. Some heifers will show udder/teat development because of fat deposits. Feedlot heifers that are really fat will often have large udders, and they are not bred.



@jhm47 my experience thus far has been quiet the opposite. But...I have only bred two heifers so my experience is not really relevant.

But that being said that heifer calved, see my post Bred Heifer?. She had the tiniest bag before she had her calf. Her back end looked like she was going to calf but her bag was saying something quiet different.

She literally bagged overnight and had her calf an hour later. She had her calf last Monday and over the weekend she bagged up even more. Calf is feeding well and she is producing more than enough milk for her new calf. I had multiple people look at her and most people were telling me it was a few months away. A few local cattle guys were telling me to move her as she was going to calf any day, and they were right. In their opinion most heifers bag up over night and this did happen in this case as well as with our heifer last year, same thing.


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## TAH (Jun 20, 2016)

cjc said:


> Just wanted to keep updating on this calf.
> 
> I was given about a 20% chance of survival to 4 weeks with this calf. Started out being incredibly low in glucose, to being sick and not being able to stand, to having a bad case of Joint Ill. This calf never got colostrum, he actually never nursed for 3 days until we found him wobbly in the field. His dam had a BIG udder. We were told by the vet that her teats were just too big for the calf to grab, interesting enough when his dam was slaughtered we discovered she had NO MILK at all. Huge udder and was completely dry. This cow also lost her calf last year.
> 
> ...


. You have done such a good job caring for him. I have heard that calves can only live 8-12 hours without colostrum. With seeing this little guy survive he is a little inspiration.


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