# bloating, falling, rolling



## laughingdog (Apr 21, 2011)

my young ND just started rolling falling, and has been bloated all day, and is starting to puke up rumen, and has airy sloashy sound.    any ideas of causes or cures?


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

laughingdog said:
			
		

> my young ND just started rolling falling, and has been bloated all day, and is starting to puke up rumen, and has airy sloashy sound.    any ideas of causes or cures?


This sounds like frothy bloat. I would not normally reccommend this, but where it sounds like it is an emergency(rolling, falling, puking, sloshy sounding), give it Milk of Magnesia ASAP!  it will help get things to a point where your goat will be able to belch out the trapped gasses.
Edited to add: Once you have given the MoM, give your goat hay or straw to eat(high fiber things to get the rumen to contract). Then walk it around a bit to allow the "medication" to mix around well. Then get your goat to stand up hill to help the goat in expelling the gas via belching.


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

Drench her with some veg oil.


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## laughingdog (Apr 21, 2011)

will baking soda help, and/or how much do i give it how often?  what would cause this?  THANKS!


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## laughingdog (Apr 21, 2011)

veg oil???


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

laughingdog said:
			
		

> will baking soda help, and/or how much do i give it how often?  what would cause this?  THANKS!


Baking soda can be given free choice at all times as a bloat preventative.
"Frothy bloat is usually caused by overeating lush, damp feeds such as clover, alfalfa or legume pastures. Green feed that has grown warm in the stack can also create problems. Foam forms in the rumen with tiny bubbles that are impossible for a goat to belch up. Foam is more dangerous than dry bloat. The rumen expands with foam and the goat can die pretty quickly from respiratory or circulatory failure due to excessive pressure on the diaphragm." - http://kinne.net/bloat.htm


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

From a quick search from some experts here:

Froth coming out the mouth can be urgent..could be bloat for sure.  I would give the goat about 1/2 c or so of vegtable oil and /or mineral oil to get the froth down in the rumen.  Then 2 tablespoons of baking soda mixed with warm water and molasses.   

---Emmetts Dairy

 I give wee babies 3 cc of oil, so an adult goat I would do probably 15 ccs or so.  Baking soda for acidosis, and C&D antitoxin for entero.  You can do the oil and baking soda often...the oil acts as a surfactant.

---Helmstead


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

PS:  Helmstead has Nigerians and I think Emmetts has full-size dairy goats.


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

Run like the wind and get that into your goatie and be sure to report back.....hope it goes well.  I saved a puking doeling last year with the same advice from people here....she grew up and is expecting now!  Just with simple kitchen items.  Got a syringe?


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

freemotion said:
			
		

> From a quick search from some experts here:
> 
> Froth coming out the mouth can be urgent..could be bloat for sure.  I would give the goat about 1/2 c or so of vegtable oil and /or mineral oil to get the froth down in the rumen.  Then 2 tablespoons of baking soda mixed with warm water and molasses.
> 
> ...


I know the oil works great for dry bloat, and not discrediting using it for that. However, where there is foaming/frothing, isn't that indicative of frothy bloat? If this is correct, then won't the oil just coat everything in oil?
PS: I love Emmetts Dairy & Helmstead!


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

Helmstead points out that the oil acts as a surfactant, preventing bubbles from forming, so that is why it works.  It breaks up the surface tension needed to form bubbles.


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## laughingdog (Apr 21, 2011)

ok i got some mallox, maximum strength, mutli symptom.    i gave some baking soda earlier, but just a tad, as wasnt sure if ok to eat to much, think i have vegatable oil and mineral oil, around here packed up and put away somewere.  how much mallox how often?


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## helmstead (Apr 21, 2011)

Yep, frothy bloat is caused by gassy bubbles, it's much like adding a little oil to a boiling pot of pasta.

This sounds like a NASTY bloat, I hope you're able to get it under control.  Walk the goat and thump its rumen side to help it expel the gas.  You want a lot of burping.


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## laughingdog (Apr 21, 2011)

oh, got to burb after a walk searching for meds, and just burped like baby, as saw neighbor doing.  seems somewhat better and less bloated, but now slaying out and still slightly tipsy.  not wanting to try to run around, and not sure if should let try to rest/sleep. ?


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## laughingdog (Apr 21, 2011)

oddly no froth, was some drooling with rumen coming up at very first, but not since.
so i was good to rub and burp baby style?    im noe sure how i havent kiled this poor little guy yet, as vet says he was healthiest goat ever seen, as not even any worms or any parasites, and had really nothing to tell about, except either they thrive or just die...


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## helmstead (Apr 21, 2011)

Thats a sick baby.  Bloat can lead right into things like polio, entero and FKS...so pump her full of baking soda, oil for sure and if you have it - start her on C&D antitoxin and B complex or thiamine to prevent polio.


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## laughingdog (Apr 21, 2011)

ok, so goat died...    how do i store for eating purposes (fridge, or freezer for freshness, and do i butcher, or leave whole for tonite???)?   as neighbors wanted to buy/make Mexican goat.  not being heartless, just figure at least he wont go to waste, and he isnt here anymore anyway.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 21, 2011)

laughingdog said:
			
		

> ok, so goat died...    how do i store for eating purposes (fridge, or freezer for freshness, and do i butcher, or leave whole for tonite???)?   as neighbors wanted to buy/make Mexican goat.  not being heartless, just figure at least he wont go to waste, and he isnt here anymore anyway.


Ohhh!  I'm so sorry!  and I'm not sure how to go about storing him... I would assume that he would need to be "slaughtered":
Cut through the jugular vein with a sharp knife.  The animal should be hung head downwards to allow thorough draining of the blood.


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## freemotion (Apr 21, 2011)

Sorry for your loss....he went fast.  You might want to start another thread for your butchering questions, as I doubt that most who were answering here have that answer for you.  A new thread with a new title in the appropriate category will get the attention of those in the know about such things.

ETA:  Ooops, you did this as I was typing!


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## laughingdog (Apr 22, 2011)

thanks for all the advice, it was just so fast, but wondering if milk formula left over and given to him today hurt things, as he burped up alot of foul milk smell, and all the sloshing...  hasnt been drinking milk at all for abour week, then noticed he had some formula still made fresh, tasted it and it was fine, and warmed and portioned out last few days.  otherwise doesnt drink alot of water with wet weather lately, and ive been leaving him out to forage all day for week since he stopped crying for baba (bottle).    i posted this eating question in other, as only place for this maybe, oddly.  my dog will be upset if sees him dead probly, so left dog in kennel, and wondering what to do to get out of site, but still keep fresh.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 22, 2011)

laughingdog said:
			
		

> thanks for all the advice, it was just so fast, but wondering if milk formula left over and given to him today hurt things, as he burped up alot of foul milk smell, and all the sloshing...  hasnt been drinking milk at all for abour week, then noticed he had some formula still made fresh, tasted it and it was fine, and warmed and portioned out last few days.  otherwise doesnt drink alot of water with wet weather lately, and ive been leaving him out to forage all day for week since he stopped crying for baba (bottle).    i posted this eating question in other, as only place for this maybe, oddly.  my dog will be upset if sees him dead probly, so left dog in kennel, and wondering what to do to get out of site, but still keep fresh.


If you have a garage, you could hang his carcass there(with doors closed, so predators won't get an easy meal) and rinse off the floor in the morning.


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## elevan (Apr 22, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> laughingdog said:
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But if you don't bleed him out pretty quickly he's not gonna be "fresh" no matter what you do...he'll taste off...


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 22, 2011)

If I had known that it was a kid, I would have brought up the thought of floppy kid syndrome... which presents itself the same way.  It can be treated similarly, but would require added items for treatment of a kid progressed that far.

It usually will present when the kid is 3-21 days old, but it does rarely occur with older kids.
Here is a resource page(for any future need) on it and how to treat for it: http://www.goatworld.com/articles/fks/fksrw.shtml


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 22, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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 Exactly!


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## elevan (Apr 22, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

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You not only need to bleed him out...but gut him tonight as well.  Right away.


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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 22, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Livinwright Farm said:
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 Emily, always a wealth of information!


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## laughingdog (Apr 22, 2011)

thanks all, i got er done quick and good enough without to much trouble, but didnt think that it could have been alot easier if did like taught, and not try to do it in haste.  got some rumen and blood on hide, but nothing else is contaminated, except my balcony.    collie is heart broken though, and wont stop being upset.  may still need to find female, but this time two and knowiing now and knowing to research, as apparently all goats are not like people met, telling me they have hundred or more, and they just stay out in pasture all the time and never problem.
need goat knowledge people, and this site doesnt have a section like that it seems.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Apr 22, 2011)

Im very sorry for your loss.   

IMO, I would never eat a goat that died unexpectedly like that.   Many things can cause a disruption like that in the rumen, including disease and if your not absolutley sure what the cause was...I would highly recomend burying the animal in the back 40 somewhere.  

Again..I am very sorry for your loss.


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## cmjust0 (Apr 22, 2011)

First of all, sorry you lost him.  

Now, "slinging their cud" - puking - can also be an indication that a goat ingested some type of poisonous substance..  If he had toxins running around in his bloodstream, they're likely still there, trapped in the meat.

I'd *strongly suggest* you put this boy in the ground, or in a burnpile, or something...but not on the table.


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## PJisaMom (Apr 22, 2011)

Sorry for your loss... 



			
				laughingdog said:
			
		

> need goat knowledge people, and this site doesnt have a section like that it seems.


Um?  

There is actually a WEALTH of WONDERFUL information here and many, many knowledgeable people here willing to help.  You got some good and solid advice, just sounds like it was a bit too late to do much about it.  

When posting about an emergency situation, it's always recommended to give as many details as possible rather than fewer and to post HELP!  or EMERGENCY! to get the fastest response from the most amount of people.  

Of course, your best bet is to call the vet's office or the emergency line and seek their help. 

Good luck with your next goat adventure.


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## elevan (Apr 22, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> First of all, sorry you lost him.
> 
> Now, "slinging their cud" - puking - can also be an indication that a goat ingested some type of poisonous substance..  If he had toxins running around in his bloodstream, they're likely still there, trapped in the meat.
> 
> I'd *strongly suggest* you put this boy in the ground, or in a burnpile, or something...but not on the table.


I agree with this.  It was late last night when I posted an answer to your butchering question and I admittedly wasn't thinking of everything.

Use the butchering that you did as experience and now dispose of the remain and don't consume the meat.

I am very so for your loss.


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## laughingdog (Apr 23, 2011)

ah, thanks for all the help, and advice for next time, maybe, hopefully...  he did eat some holly bush in the front, by the office, before got after him and told him no, and know supposed to be toxic even to goats, but he has eaten it before i found out it was toxic, and hadnt had any trouble.    reading somewere, the sloshing since drinking last of milk, could have been not able to digest it properly anymore after he decided to wean about a week before he died. ?


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## jcooke1 (Apr 26, 2011)

First off I would like to say I am sorry for the loss. My little guy just recently had an episode the other night and we are still under investigation of what seems to have been his problem. He seemed very restless, than rolled some and got to where he wouldn't stand up. We mixed up some baking soda and veg. oil and gave it to him orally with the assumption he might have been bloating. I read that the veg. oil is good for the froth bloat and the baking soda is good for the dry bloat, so we mixed the two and we will cover all our basis. Thankfully, I can report that he did make it through the night but we still watch him very closely because he is only about 3 months old and we are not sure if bloat was really his issue or not. A couple days after the scare we found him restless again but after a nap he seemed to be back to his normal self. I am not sure if his band on his (you know what) was bugging him this last time he became restless or if it was something else, but either way I have a date this weekend to collect some fecal samples from him and test him for parasites and Cocci.

Again I am sorry for your loss and it is very scary to go through something like what you experienced. I am a brand new goat owner myself and I was freaking out when I was going through it.


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## laughingdog (Apr 27, 2011)

thanks, and sorry for others losses as well.


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