# Order of Animal Purchases?



## Margali (Aug 8, 2021)

We are in the midst of establish our farm on 12.8 acres. We have an old indoor/outdoor cat. We plan on having sheeps, chickens, ducks, feeder steer. We want a family dog and LDGs for the animals.

Should we family dog first or get the chickens & ducks established? The goal for family dog is he leaves the critters alone but will defend kids if a stray dog gets too close.
Do we need to get the LDG before the animals or after? I know they need time tland training to get used to their duties.

Chicken and the egg problem, I know. 🤪


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## Simpleterrier (Aug 8, 2021)

Depends if u have had animals or dogs before. I would do chickens and ducks first. Then sheep and last the feeder. If u haven't had animals before I would space them out by a couple of years so u don't get burned out or over whelmed. As for dogs determine the predator load in your area. See if u need a lgd. Family dog u can get anytime. But do research on breeds. I'm partial to airedales and think they fill the family dog / farm dog roll nicely. No stray anything comes around and they also don't mind tangling with a coyote or bobcat. As people from Texas will point.out that their coyotes run in packs like wolves and a single dog can't handle it. The Texas coyote that run in packs I believe is actually a red wolf or a cross of the two. Coyotes are a breeding pair with pups that when old enough they kick them out. Up north coyotes are 2 most u see together. So a good farm dog usually is ok. So up here my Airedale's presents keeps them back and she kills the ground hogs possums and racoons that come in. Plus she is safe around all my livestock. Chickens goats turkeys hogs steers horse and donkey and family cat and inside dog cairn terrier.

Hope that helps


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## secuono (Aug 8, 2021)

Everything eats birds, everything. 
So, Fort Knox it before getting the birds. Top, bottom, sides, skirt on ground and real locks. 1/2"×1" wire, anything bigger and a coon will rip body parts off through the wire w/o any problems. 
Dogs learn to ignore birds, since they "cry wolf" a lot just screwing around with each other. So, best to build an enclosure nothing can enter than trust a dog will notice a bird squaking.
Get a LGD for the sheep. Adult, trained or lock the sheep up at night and train a pup for 1.5-2yrs. The worse the predator load, the more dogs you'll need.
Unless you have packs of coyotes and wolves, you shouldn't need a dog for cattle.
If you train the farm dog and it doesn't have a high prey drive, then any dog could be a farm dog. Failed or old LGDs usually make good ones. 
If you haven't had animals before, including dogs, I'd get Fort Knox built first, add birds, add farm dog. 
Then add sheep & LGD puppy or the cattle.


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## Alaskan (Aug 8, 2021)

I would do birds (chickens and ducks) first, then add dogs.

Birds are pretty flappy, so are hard to train dogs to not hurt them. 

So....  birds are a great training point for dogs and LGDs. (Start with inexpensive birds). 

I read where some of the LGD owners with sheep said they had some trouble with bouncy lambs and their dogs.....

I haven't had sheep.

I didn't have an issue with my dog and the goats.... except for floppy nubian ears!  Some training was needed at that point, but not too bad.

As to a family dog...  really pay attention to breeds with a high prey drive, those can be too much trouble....  dogs with a high prey drive can be difficult to train to leave livestock alone.  Also, some herding breeds are strong nippers... which is difficult. 

As a kid we had a mut. Not even that big of a dog,  but he still worked hard to keep us kids safe.

But....  LOTS of different dogs would fit the bill for a family dog.  Some, like a great Pyrenees,  are great family dogs, and great LGDs.

After poultry and dogs, I would get sheep.

Ask the sheep people if they would get the LGD with the sheep...  or the dog first,  then the sheep.  The sheep will definitely need protection from stray dogs and other predators. 

With a steer...  you don't want just 1...  but one steer with a sheep flock would probably work.  Or 2 steers.

And with a steer you want strong fences, and a loading ramp.


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## Beekissed (Aug 8, 2021)

At the same time, puppy and chicks together, raised together in the same place.  Train the pup up on the chicks, leash training, obedience training, so that by the time he would want to chase them, he already knows your commands and how you want him to behave around the chickens.  

Don't allow him inside the coop, that should be the birds' sanctuary and you won't want him robbing the nests.  Here's a file that may help you with training....


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## Simpleterrier (Aug 8, 2021)

U can do just one steer I have for the last 10 yrs. You do want hot fences they don't have to be super strong.just.super hot. And a loading ramp not needed. But with steers they are bigger if something goes wrong it will make bigger problems.


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## Margali (Aug 8, 2021)

Thanks everyone! We are thinking of a standard schnauzer for the family dog. They were originally working and protection dogs. Pulled carts, guarded homes, and ratted.

We had family dogs before. I had chickens in Iowa. The neighbor says we have coyotes but didn't say how bad they are. She has 4 donkeys in yard with just a leanto. Also said once years ago there was a cougar.


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## Baymule (Aug 9, 2021)

I had 2 Great Pyrenees that had never seen a sheep. One was older, Paris, and she thought they were spawn of the devil, wanted to protect me from them-and attacked. It took awhile to convince her that I really wanted her to get along with the sheep and she finally became a wonderful guardian.  Recently she decided she was done and retired herself to the front yard. LOL The other Great Pyrenees, Trip, was about a year old and thought the sheep made great toys. He took awhile too. He never bonded with the sheep but guards them because they are on his farm. About the only time he really wants to spend time with the sheep is when there are new lambs. Lamb milky poop must be delicious.

Since we moved here and got sheep, I got 2 Anatolians, both as puppies. Both had their issues, wanting to play, but were easily trained. Guess who stays with the sheep? Sheba was spayed last week and has another 5-7 days before I can let her go back to work. She is in the house and is feeling good enough now that she stares out the window, wanting to go out. Today I walked her on a leash in the pasture, she got to sniff her sheep, see her buddy Sentry and was happy. Can't let her run and play yet. 

Sheep first? Dog first? I've done things bass-ackwards, right, wrong, made a mess of thing, had spectacular failures and spectacular successes. For me, having sheep and training puppies was easier than having grown dogs and training them to sheep. That said, puppies have their own challenges and cannot protect the sheep until they grow up at least a year old. 

Bottom line is, what do you want.


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