# Eye Coloration (not sure if this is under the right forum)



## Livinwright Farm (Jun 6, 2011)

We have been studying our beloved new little Olivia, and have noticed her interesting(I believe unique) eye coloration.  Both of her eyes are like this: golden brown outer ring, inner blue/grey ring, then her pupil. A picture can be found Here ... I hope to have a better pic up later today.
I was told that it isn't possible for 2 brown eyed goats to produce a blue eyed kid... Granted, Olivia isn't BLUE eyed... or IS she???
In all of this wondering, I am keeping in mind that it might have something to due with her being the product of an accidental inbreeding... like a genetic fluke?


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## Livinwright Farm (Jun 6, 2011)

Oh What?!?!?  I just found this site ( http://www.goatspots.com/blueeyes.html ) explaining blue eyes in goats, and am SOOOO excited to announce that Olivia is considered as genetically blue-eyed and will be able to produce completely blue eyed offspring!!!        * "YES!!!!!!" *
Apparently either Maude & Momma's sire or dam, or Marly's sire or grand sire or grand dam was blue eyed and it just skipped 1-2 generations!! This is AWESOME news!!!


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## doxiemoxie (Jun 6, 2011)

Pretty girl!  How fun.  And yes, post more pics!


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## helmstead (Jun 6, 2011)

Those are "baby blues" as in, they will change to brown or amber as she ages.

Blue eyes are bright, sky blue at birth.


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## Livinwright Farm (Jun 6, 2011)

taken from the site I mentioned, "some goats have eyes in which only part of the iris is blue(this also occurs in dogs.) Such animals are most likely heterozygous blue eyed and are considered genetically blue-eyed, even if only the tiniest portion of the iris is blue and they can still have offspring with completely blue eyes."

Also, earlier on the page they mention that "blue eyes are considered a dominant trait, though it has been known to skip a generation or two and pop up later on when two brown eyed parents are bred together".

We will keep a photo record of her eyes  to see if there are any changes in the coloration. Who knows, she might just keep the blue.    If so, then I am guessing that it is due to the inbreeding.


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## Mzyla (Jun 6, 2011)

Pleasant finding!
Every little thing like this one, it's like a ray of sunshine on a rainy day 
You deserved many more of these happy rays!


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## helmstead (Jun 6, 2011)

What I'm trying to tell you is...that isn't BLUE.  Have you ever noticed how newborns of several species are often born with grey-blue eyes that change later?  That's what you have.

I also don't believe blue eyes skip generations.  One parent must be blue eyed (it's a dominant trait, so if they HAVE the gene, it is expressed - if its not expressed, they don't HAVE it).

They're going to be amber or brown.


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## Livinwright Farm (Jun 6, 2011)

I am honestly confused by your reply.
For those reading this thread, I am not trying to bicker, just looking for the most clarification on genetics I can get.

What happened to homozygous recessive(Bb vs. BB or bb), which for whatever reason makes a dominant trait recessive? _Which is mentioned on the site I mentioned in my second post on this thread.(they refer to it as heterozygous in terms of goats, but in people it is referred to as homozygous recessive)_


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## helmstead (Jun 6, 2011)

I know it can make your head spin..but...

There is no 'recessive' in blue eyed goats.  They can be heterozygous (ie have ONE copy) or homozygous (ie have 2 copies) but BOTH will result in the goat having blue eyes (it's dominant).

Sooo

If your goat is brown eyed...it _does not have_ the gene for blue eyes.  It _cannot have_ blue eyed offspring unless bred to a blue eyed goat.

That site is mistaken when it says blue eyes can 'skip' a generation.  More likely is that one of the parents was marble eyed, and it was not noticed.  For instance, my buck D Lux is marble eyed.  When he was born, they were ice blue with a brown outter ring.  As he aged, that outer ring became wider, so now you can only see his ice blue in the sun (when pupils are fully contracted).  Marble eyes are genetically full blue...but it's hard to TELL now that he's a yearling unless you see him outside in the sun or shine a flashlight in his eyes.

Still, the color difference in your doeling and a true blue or marbled eye is obvious to the trained eye...hers are not true blue.  I suspect that she will have amber (gold) eyes later, often amber eyed goats are born with that grey-blue color.


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## Roll farms (Jun 6, 2011)

I have a Boer x kiko kid w/ eyes that color...safe bet neither of her parents were blue eyed.  

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but I gotta go w/ Kate on this one. 

Adorable baby, though.


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## RockyToggRanch (Jun 6, 2011)

Well, I'm not a goat, but I often refer to my husband as one. We both have brown eyes. His mother has blue eyes and my father has blue eyes. Our 3rd child has BRIGHT blue eyes.


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## RainySunday (Jun 6, 2011)

RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

> Well, I'm not a goat, but I often refer to my husband as one. We both have brown eyes. His mother has blue eyes and my father has blue eyes. Our 3rd child has BRIGHT blue eyes.


Yes, but blue eyes in humans is recessive.  In goat's it's dominant.


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## Ariel301 (Jun 7, 2011)

I raise purebred, full size LaManchas. They do not have the genetics for blue eyes, but my babies are all born with eyes that have that gray-blue in them. They fade to the normal color within a few weeks. I WISH I could get full size Munchies with those gorgeous blue eyes though!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jun 7, 2011)

I have a ND doe that is not blue eyed, yet gave birth to a blue eyed doeling. I remember the breeder talking about it coming from my doe, and not the buck.

Today I was given a blue eyed cream colored doe. She is too gorgeous!


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## PattySh (Jun 7, 2011)

She is adorable, but doesn't have blue eyes. That color will change, blue eyes in goats are quite vivid  (sky blue)immediately.


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## Livinwright Farm (Jun 8, 2011)

I will say, that I don't believe that she is or will be BLUE-EYED, but that she might be the "marbled blue" or partial blue, as some goats do retain the dual coloration... as Kate even mentioned.  Also, I have not said that her dual coloration is BLUE and not sure how that got misconstrued, but that any goat having even a small dot of blue(heterozygous blue in goats, homozygous blue recessive in humans) is considered as *genetically* blue-eyed where goats are concerned.


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## helmstead (Jun 8, 2011)

She is not genetically blue eyed or marble eyed or partially blue eyed or anything...sorry.  I think we've all explained how and why, believe what you will.


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## Livinwright Farm (Jun 9, 2011)

Kate, now I am utterly confused...    you yourself said that your buck, D Lux, was born with the ice blue inner and brown outer rings that he retained(though the brown got thicker)... why then, are you so adamant that Olivia won't retain even the slightest shred of hers?
Like I mentioned when I first posted the link, the pics I have on our Fb page are not the best shots of the coloration. I still have not been able to get one that shows the true coloration/shading of colors.   I believe that perhaps my calling the inner color of Olivia's eyes blue/grey, might be confusing matters a little here too. And for that I appologize, as I am still new to what all these colors & patterns are termed as by the show ring crowd.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm with Kate on this.  Marbled blue eyes are not the same thing as bluish eyes at birth.  We had a set of twins born this year with a teal/greenish blue inner iris and both faded to amber.  We have a blue eyed does who has pretty extensive marbling, it's a much different blue than the color they have at birth.  Kate's buck's sire is blue eyed.  Marbled eyes (genetically blue, as has been established) still need a blue eyed parent.


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## mossyStone (Jun 9, 2011)

I have found this post most interesting.....


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## mistee (Jun 10, 2011)

i have had a few kids have eyes the exact same but all go brown after a few weeks sorry... i would have given anything for my almost pure black kid to have blue eyes. Hers were identicle to your pic and now at 2 months they are brown.. her pale cream sister did get the blue eyes:/


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