# Ewe had triplets now is fat and has a hard side...?



## secuono (Mar 29, 2012)

So the ewe who had triplets 3 weeks ago this coming Sunday is fat, well, all are fat. But I had let her out in my big backyard for about 2 hours. I just walked her back and noticed a hard fat area on her left side, not centered, but further back, up high and from behind, it makes her look horizontal and flat. The right side slopes down like it should. When she wattled back past the gate, 20 ft, she panted like a dog, tongue out, stopped and then a minute later I saw her pant again.

What could it be...?
Should I keep them off the grass? It's rare that I let them out, since they are already pudgy. She spent half the time back on the barn side with her lambs, since they were too scared to come out. :/
Should I shave them this weekend, would that help any?


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## SheepGirl (Mar 29, 2012)

I've never had a sheep bloat, but it sounds like it could be bloat, especially since you said it was on her left side and it was up high. Bloat can kill ruminants very quickly, so see if that is the issue here and if it is, treat it.


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## secuono (Mar 29, 2012)

All I have is vegetable oil. How do I give it to her and how much? Don't have anything else nor anything bigger than a tiny, 3ml syringe.


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## SheepGirl (Mar 29, 2012)

From InfoVets.com:


> *Introduction:* Bloat is one of the common problems encountered with small ruminants. If treated properly and aggressively, most cases have a favorable outcome. Many bloat conditions can be prevented by using proper nutrition and sound management.
> 
> *Clinical Signs:*
> 1. A distended abdomen, mostly on the left side, high in the flank area is the most common sign. (If the animal is pregnant and seems to be distended on both sides of the abdomen, special consideration should be given to a possible hydrops animal. If this is a concern, consult a veterinarian.)
> ...


Also the Merck Veterinary Manual suggests 250-500 mL of vegetable oils. 1 mL = 1 cc. So with a 3cc syringe, that would take a LONG time. Do you have a turkey baster or a drencher?


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 29, 2012)

It may just be that she's grazing a lot.  If her left side is hard, it's probably a full rumen.  She could be panting because it's been wacky weather and fairly warm out.


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## secuono (Mar 29, 2012)

Well, mixed half cup of water w/half cup oil. Gave it to her, massaged, wiggled and patted her sides. Heard burping, 1 small fart and sloshing or something when wiggling a certain area of her left belly. She panted once while I was out there. 
Hoping she is just full, but then again, she just keeps eating and otherwise, doesn't seem bothered or concerned.


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## secuono (Mar 29, 2012)

Dark, sticking up area up near her head area is just her shoulder. 
She keeps eating, they are all just so...chill and w/e about everything, hard to tell if they are sick or anything...


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## bonbean01 (Mar 29, 2012)

Hope she'll be alright!!!

SheepGirl, thank you for posting that...had hubby and I read that the night we worried about bloat, our ewes would have been spared the 11 pm drenching of oil, baking soda, yogurt and water...we just couldn't take the chance in case it was bloat.


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## secuono (Mar 29, 2012)

The pasture looks just like the closed off sheep area. Only our yards are lush. How do I introduce the sheep back out to the horses and ram when they are big enough? I'm sure the grass will be lush enough by then to cause issues. We have a fair amount of Clover out there, half of the yards are Clover. If I cut the 4 acres first, could I let them out or would I have to let them out now/before if starts to grow well? 
My issue is the pony and the ram. Twins, he snuck back in when the ewe was lambing and he is fine with them, but the triplets he rammed a bit harder. And the pony can be down right evil or just too curious/friendly/clumsy to be safe for the lambs. But now I have to worry about the sheep and bloat...!! ugh...
Horses are out 24/7, so little to no worry there, other than a grazing muzzle for the pony.


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## secuono (Mar 30, 2012)

Well, she's alive and fine today.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 30, 2012)

I think she was probably just full.  You can feed hay before turning out on pasture to minimize the risk of bloat, and slowly increase their time on pasture.


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## secuono (Mar 30, 2012)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> I think she was probably just full.  You can feed hay before turning out on pasture to minimize the risk of bloat, and slowly increase their time on pasture.


Yes, but my sheep will not eat hay, flat out ewww from them, lol.


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## secuono (Mar 31, 2012)

Her side is still hard, exactly the same look....


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## Cornish Heritage (Mar 31, 2012)

> It's rare that I let them out, since they are already pudgy.


I hate to say this but if they are that "pudgy" as you say, you really should consider cutting their grain WAY down & putting them out to pasture full time. You are in an area that has a long growing season - put those sheep to good use & let them eat your pastures. If you are scared of introducing them to the other animals, make a temporary pasture with polywire (electric fence). You can move that every day or every few days depending on how fast they eat it down & how big an area you make for them.

It is not healthy for any animal to be overweight - it shortens not only their life but can also affect their fertility. Animals need sunshine & exercise like the rest of us do. They will get used to being out after a few days.

Liz


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## secuono (Mar 31, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> > It's rare that I let them out, since they are already pudgy.
> 
> 
> I hate to say this but if they are that "pudgy" as you say, you really should consider cutting their grain WAY down & putting them out to pasture full time. You are in an area that has a long growing season - put those sheep to good use & let them eat your pastures. If you are scared of introducing them to the other animals, make a temporary pasture with polywire (electric fence). You can move that every day or every few days depending on how fast they eat it down & how big an area you make for them.
> ...


*I do not feed them anything*, they got fat on their own by nothing other than the bits of grass they find. They won't eat hay and there isn't much grass what so ever. 
There's are images on the other page of the ewe.

There is no way to fence off the sheep in anything other than solid fencing. My pony will tear, snap, rip, destroy everything other than field fencing or metal pipe fencing from chain link. He is not safe with anything, he's taken down tension wire, barbed wire, 4in wood, 6in wood and anything else that may have a weak section. He would kill himself on netting. Would be far safer to leave them in their pen until the lambs are large enough to run out of his way and not need mom solely.


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## Cornish Heritage (Mar 31, 2012)

> I do not feed them anything, they got fat on their own by nothing other than the bits of grass they find.


LOL! That's great  It just sounded like you had them shut in a barn all day eating grain so I apologize for the misunderstanding. 

Liz


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## secuono (Mar 31, 2012)

I have a new issue, the lamb twin that was thriving while his brother was weak, is now ill!! 
He walks backwards, weak, won't eat or do anything....


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## secuono (Mar 31, 2012)

Still has the lump, no change, also does pant rarely. 
Any new ideas what it could be?

Review, sheep only eats low, near none grass. Technically possible she had the lump before I let them out on the thicker grass.


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## Remuda1 (Mar 31, 2012)

Does your sheep have the lump first thing in the morning or just in the afternoon/evening after grazing?


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## BrownSheep (Mar 31, 2012)

If she isn't distressed I wouldn't worry considering its been going on a couple days.  I am amazed your sheep don't like hay....mine will do back flips for it.


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## secuono (Apr 1, 2012)

Well, Winter never really came this year to our State, VA. They were free w/the horses on 4.5 acres before the lambs came. They had access to hay, which even the horses waited until late December or mid January, I forget, to start eating it.
They have free access to the grass paddocks I made two weeks before they lambed. 
The lump is always there, no change in it what so ever. 
There's another half roughly the same size on the other side which you can't see. Smaller area is 30x60 or so feet. Bigger is 60x60ft, I'll go out and get a more accurate size later. 













But this is still how she looks, she's in the barn napping this morning. But it's still there.


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## nomad (Apr 1, 2012)

I need to ask you a few questions before I give my thoughts to help guide you to find your answer.

The age of this ewe is?

Has this ewe ever been given grain since she was born?

Was the mother of the ewe grained while pregnant with her?

To be sure I am clear, did this ewe eat any hay over winter and if so, what type of hay was offered?

When  you're stating she is "fat", you are using the condition scale (1-5) for sheep/goats; and, she is a number 4/5?   Or, are you subjectively calling her 'fat'?

I think I have asked my few questions.  

At least, she hasn't lost her appetite.


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## secuono (Apr 1, 2012)

She's 8yrs.
Got her last year, no idea about that. Trio had pellets 2 months ago. Sometimes I toss them some crimped oats. 
No idea about the mother. 
No hay. W/e the horses got they had access to, but they were never in there eating. 
People here have called them fat. Look at the picture and you tell me if she is or not. They ain't sheared, I can't tell either way.


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## SheepGirl (Apr 1, 2012)

Well if she still has it, it's probably not bloat. Maybe a tumor? She is getting up there in years...


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## nomad (Apr 1, 2012)

Thank you for answering my questions.

Since you do not know the history of this animal and how it was managed (as well as that of its mother), it is difficult to ascertain if she is having problems or not.  Let's throw a few things out there as possibilities for you to consider.

I am a little perplexed that she is full and round without eating hay and does not appear to be eating much grass according to your observations.  If the "lumps" that you are feeling are relatively hard and constant regardless of time of day, there is a possibility of fat deposits in one or several of her "stomachs".  There have actually been cases of Boer goats who were fed excessively on grain that had 40 lb balls of fat removed from their stomachs after slaughter.  The animals essentially ended up starving to death, though, due to the blockage in the stomach.  I am not saying this is what is ailing your particular animal.  Just something to consider.

If you feel her backbone and ribs, you can get an idea of what her conditioning score is.  This will help you assess which direction she needs to go in.  If she is too fat, then give her appropriate forage (grass) to bring her weight to a more desirable level.  If she is too thin, then give her access to more grass and/or hay.  It is also important to provide free choice minerals including sodium bicarbonate for proper health.  The following link provides information on how to judge conditioning.

*http://www.agric.wa.gov.au/PC_91909.html?s=1001*

*Carcase finish is assessed as a fat score which is directly related to the condition score of the live animal - carcase fat score 3 is equivalent to condition score 3. In both the sheep and goat meat industries body condition scores of 2 to 3 are desirable (well finished but not fat). Condition score 1 animals are unfinished; that is, muscle development is poor, while animals in condition scores 4 and 5 are overfat and unacceptable to all known markets. *

Also, remember that "fat" is a very subjective term especially when someone is not familiar with what good conditioning looks like.  How many bulemics think they are still too fat when they look in the mirror?  

Hope this gets you in the right direction.


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## secuono (Apr 1, 2012)

I have a picture from March 24th and she had the bump then. Wasn't there when the lambs were a week old. 
:/


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## secuono (Apr 1, 2012)

nomad said:
			
		

> Thank you for answering my questions.
> 
> Since you do not know the history of this animal and how it was managed (as well as that of its mother), it is difficult to ascertain if she is having problems or not.  Let's throw a few things out there as possibilities for you to consider.
> 
> ...


I don't think you have even read over the thread. If you had, you'd know it's just one, large bump on her left side. They were less round in Fall, it's not just the wool that's making them extra round.


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## Cornish Heritage (Apr 1, 2012)

Is the lump hard or can you push at it? If you can push at it like a balloon then that would indicate some kind of bloat/gas. Have you tried some Probiotics? Also like Nomad suggested try some baking soda. 

Liz


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## secuono (Apr 1, 2012)

It's fairly hard.


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## nomad (Apr 1, 2012)

> I don't think you have even read over the thread. If you had, you'd know it's just one, large bump on her left side. They were less round in Fall, it's not just the wool that's making them extra round.


Since none of us are there to view the animal, it would be best to call a vet or someone with a lot of experience with ruminants to help with a proper diagnosis.  Pictures and vague descriptions do not do justice to a proper diagnosis.  To be honest, one solid lump on the side of an animal is most likely not a much better prognosis than 2 or more lumps (if they existed).  If it is a tumor as SheepGirl indicated, you have a problem.

We all try our best to help others which shows our character.


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## Remuda1 (Apr 1, 2012)

Since none of us are there to view the animal, it would be best to call a vet or someone with a lot of experience with ruminants to help with a proper diagnosis. 

I agree with this. I think at this point, with the lump being firm and constant, and given her age, she needs to be seen by a vet. Of course, if she's in no discomfort that's great. But I don't think sheep will show much discomfort until very late in some cases. Its the survival of the fittest thing. 

I do wish you the best of luck with it and I hope it turns out to be nothing.


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## bonbean01 (Apr 2, 2012)

Firstly, I want to thank Nomad for all that information and the link...I've learned a great deal from this thread!

Secondly, since the lump has not gone down yet, a vet would be a good call in my opinion too...hope she's okay.


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## secuono (Apr 2, 2012)

_Seems_ slightly smaller, but I'm wondering if I'm just getting used to it and that's why it looks smaller. I'll take a pic tomorrow so I can compare them. She's otherwise fine, so not sure what the heck went on. We don't have a sheep/equine vet yet. Looks to be only 2 horse vets and none for sheep in VA. But I'm working on it, pet vet people have horses, I'll get their vet's info.


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