# In praise of meat mutts



## hoodat (Aug 14, 2011)

My meat rabbits are mutts but not junk rabbits. I started out with good meat conformation and have been improving my line so that now what I have are real meat bricks. Most are short coupled and very heavy in the saddles and loins where most of the meat is. They also have heavy hindquarters. The heavy loins and saddles also make deboning easier. I like to debone my rabbit meat for personal use. It takes less room in the freezer and can be used more ways. I can use it for rabbit stew in the crock pot withut having to pick all those bones out of my bowl of stew. It also makes a nice roast when rolled up and wrapped in some bacon. It marinates easily and is quick to BBQ.
The reason I like mutts is that if you have a good line they are very hardy and disease resistant. You can go a long way with inbreeeding in rabbits but if you have purebreeds and are trying to keep the line pure you will eventually take it too far and end up breeding in some traits that are less than desirable just accidentally. Some of those bad traits are invisible and show up as small litters or susceptibility to one didease or another.
Meat mutts have more variability in their genetics so you can inbreed for more generations before the undesirable traits begin turning up.


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## Snowfie (Aug 14, 2011)

Not to mention purebred (pedigreed) rabbits are almost always bred for "show" and not primarily for meat production.  They're bred to a specific conformation in the ARBA "Standard of perfection" which doesn't take into account disease resistance and hardiness.  That doesn't mean that show breeders don't breed for that, but some are more concerned with body type and fur color/consistancy than meat production.  Even among the "meat" breeds.

I just got my first rabbit this week.  A sweet young buck.  I have absolutely NO idea what he is.  The lady who I got him from said she was raising "american palaminos" but nothing she had even slightly resembled any kind of palamino I have ever heard of.  One of her bucks resembled a giant chinchilla and most of her meat rabbits were definately giants of some kind.  This fellow isn't nearly as big as some of the 8 week olds she had (he's 3 months old) but he's plenty big and he's young enough he'll probably grow a bit more.  But I'm just starting out and I'm experimenting.  I'm thinking of getting him a Californian doe to cross with.  Maybe a red new zealand at some point.   It's an adventure and it'll be interesting to see what comes out of them.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 14, 2011)

*Not to mention purebred (pedigreed) rabbits are almost always bred for "show" and not primarily for meat production.  They're bred to a specific conformation in the ARBA "Standard of perfection" which doesn't take into account disease resistance and hardiness.  That doesn't mean that show breeders don't breed for that, but some are more concerned with body type and fur color/consistancy than meat production.  Even among the "meat" breeds.*

Shame, I would think disease resistance and hardiness would go hand and hand with body type when breeding for "standard of perfection".  Or breeding for meat.  I guess being new I see it differently.


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## Snowfie (Aug 14, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> Shame, I would think disease resistance and hardiness would go hand and hand with body type when breeding for "standard of perfection".  Or breeding for meat.  I guess being new I see it differently.


Most good breeders know to cull sick or sickly animals, but there are plenty of breeders who do not.   The standard of perfection is more of a physical standard than an intrinsic standard.  

oh sure teeth need to be straight and eyes and ears clear, but and animal may still have a genetic vulnerability and pass that standard just fine.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 14, 2011)

Snowfie said:
			
		

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Thanks for the explanation.  I guess I'll be more intrinsic than just physical.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Aug 15, 2011)

Some of the best meat rabbits (mind you, not show rabbits) I've ever seen were SatinxNZ crosses. Those rabbits were solid bricks of meat. They might not have done very well on the show table, but for a meat rabbit person they were perfect. I think it really boils down to what you want to use the rabbits for. As long as you cull sickly/weaker animals the crosses will be every bit as healthy and virile as purebreds.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 16, 2011)

*As long as you cull sickly/weaker animals the crosses will be every bit as healthy and virile as purebreds.*

X2.


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## hoodat (Aug 16, 2011)

Snowfie said:
			
		

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Of course a responsible breeder will cull for hardiness and disease resistance but those are not things a judge can see on the table. Sometimes they take second place to show quality.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 16, 2011)

hoodat said:
			
		

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Then I guess I'll always get second place in show.  I believe, whether purebred or mutts, the animal should be hardy and disease resistant.  It's BEST for whatever you plan for your bunnies to do, show, pet or meat.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Aug 17, 2011)

hoodat said:
			
		

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It's unfortunate that there's breeders like that. For us, breeding for the all around package is important. We breed for health (includes hardiness, disposition, I guess I'm using it as an umbrella term ), type, fur, and color in that order. I know our some of our rabbits will go for pets and breeding in someone else's home and I don't want to sell them a rabbit I wouldn't want in my own barn. If we get an absolute dud, it usually goes to the auction (generally means meat wagon), but we try to avoid that as much as we can, and we don't get all that many duds. 
I believe that breeders should want to improve the breed overall, not just their own stock, but I know not everyone thinks like that. All we can do is keep on breeding our healthiest happiest animals for whatever purpose, be it show, pets, or meat.


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## Thundrr-Chicken (Aug 17, 2011)

im going to guess this was directed at me.. and i apologize for offending you.. when i had typed junk rabbits in a post i was referring to people picking up random rabbits from random people.. randomly letting them breed for no purpose at all and then trying to market them as "meat rabbits" .. what you're doing is in no way shape or form near what i was referring to... again.. sorry i didnt clarify better


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## hoodat (Aug 17, 2011)

I didn't have any particular poster in mind and at any rate I'm not easily offended. It's just that mutts are so often looked on as junk that I wanted to point out they do have their advantages and mutts can be just as good quality as purebreds if you use the proper breeding techniques to develop the line and are more interested in meat than showing. There is plenty of room in the rabbit world for all of us and our varying attitudes toward raising them.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Aug 18, 2011)

hoodat said:
			
		

> I didn't have any particular poster in mind and at any rate I'm not easily offended. It's just that mutts are so often looked on as junk that I wanted to point out they do have their advantages and mutts can be just as good quality as purebreds if you use the proper breeding techniques to develop the line and are more interested in meat than showing. There is plenty of room in the rabbit world for all of us and our varying attitudes toward raising them.


This is so true. Sadly and surprisingly in my area it's a few of the older 4-H kids who show rabbits nationally who scoff at the crosses.


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## Thundrr-Chicken (Aug 18, 2011)

my crosses far out perform my pure new zealands... and if it werent for people wanting to buy pure nzw's from me... i wouldnt own the nzw buck i have anymore...


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## Sommrluv (Aug 18, 2011)

For those who like their meat crosses (I find the term "meat brick" especially attractive, personally) what breeds do you cross?


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## ~Wind~ (Aug 18, 2011)

I breed american does to a lop buck for meat. Have no complaints. Weigh about 4lbs after butchering at 12 weeks. They eat very little and have a very laid back calm personality, easy to handle, love attention and are attractive to look at. They also sell as pets very easily due to their personality, half floppy ears and pretty coats. 

So they dont get the biggest, but I enjoy caring for them and the meat tastes great.


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## Thundrr-Chicken (Aug 19, 2011)

i have a californian buck that is built like a concrete block.. when i cross him with one of my new zealand white does... especially one in particular... we get fantastic results.. i like waiting til they are 6 pounds "ish" before i process them for myself.. 

i also have a new zealand white buck... i like using him to make pure nzw bunnies... but i dont get the same concrete block body type out of the kits ...


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## hoodat (Aug 19, 2011)

Sommrluv said:
			
		

> For those who like their meat crosses (I find the term "meat brick" especially attractive, personally) what breeds do you cross?


My starting point for the line I now have was a NZ cross doe with a Rex cross buck. The NZ doe makes for large litters of healthy rabbits and they are usually good mothers with plenty of milk. This doe certainly fits both categories. The Rex blood in the buck makes him very heavy bodied with a thick saddle of meat on his back and good hind legs. I have to admit I had luck on my side in that the NZ blood made them fast growing and the Rex side gave them very heavy bodies. The mixed bloodlines sometimes produce surprises in the kits. Her last litter contained two chestnut agoutis that are larger than any of the others and growing at a fantastic rate. I'm keeping my eye on them and if one is a doe; or better yet if I lucked out with a buck and a doe I may be able to do something pretty good by developing them as a side line provided their growth rate holds up and they are not large boned. Those surprises are where some great lines come from and you don't get many of those in a pure blood line, which tends to be more uniform. The trick is to develop the line and improve it as you go. Decide what it is you want to develop and keep working toward that ideal. If you don't keep them properly culled and breed willy nilly the line is bound to run down. The tendency of nature is to return them to the natural wild form over the generations and that is not a good meat conformation.


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## Caprice_Acres (Aug 23, 2011)

I have mutts too, and love them. I do New Zealand and Silver Fox crosses regularly. My best mother is a 50% SF, 50% NZW doe named Briar.  I lost a purebred SF doe, (Elvira) with 2 show legs to 110* weather, and her litter sired by a buck with 4 legs was only a week old - I euthed Briar's 75% NZW/25% SF litter and gave her the more monitarily valueable litter of 9, they're HUGE and healthy and due to be weaned next weekend. VERY excited to be keeping some nice babies from that litter - all thanks to my meat mutt!  She raises some nice litters herself, too. I just bred her back to my NEW NZB buck. 

I also have purebred, and show them too - mainly because I can sell meat bunny mutts for breeding for 10.00 apeice, where the same quality purebred meat breed goes for 25.00 to 60.00 depending on breed and quality. Makes sense to cater to as many markets as I can - meat mutt breeders, purebred breeders, and show folks. Plus, showing is a fun hobby on the side. My main goal is still meat - a doe with all sorts of white toenails, white spots BUT is productive and healthy is worth infinetely more to me than an unproductive/unthrifty show bunny with a bunch of show wins. 

I cull heavily for health in ALL my lines, mutt or pure.  I cull heavily for type too. The only 'meat' cross I won't do is bring in any giant blood.


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