# What's the difference between female dominance and wrongly 'diagnosed gender'?



## Nao57 (Oct 27, 2020)

So I got 2 silver fox does from this lady a few miles away from me. This was 2 months ago. She'd been doing it awhile and was professional. She also gave me their papers so I could avoid mating siblings of the same litter if I got others. 

They were both supposed to be does. And because of that I've had them in the same cage; a larger hutch that's maybe 8 to 10 square feet. It has plenty of room. 

I've never seen any trouble with them. I check the cages often, at least 3 times a day and often 4 times a day. And its been 2 months....

Today I saw one of the 'does' trying to rut/mate whatever with the other doe. 

But they've never done that before and they'd been in the same cage. And I watch them often. I've not seen them do this before. 

So I wonder if this is female dominance stuff over the other doe? And how do you tell the difference between the two? 

Maybe someone can help me figure this out. Thanks.


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## rachels.haven (Oct 27, 2020)

You know, female rabbits do best in a cage of their own. Territory and dominance and fighting and kit killing/thieving issues and such. Might be time for a divider if the cage is big enough.

Also, does have tacos, bucks have cheerios and...other stuff down there probably by this age. You can always check. If it's a wire cage and not too cold checking for the "other stuff" could just involve looking under the cage bottom.

Rabbit keepers have a deity called the "sex change fairy" that shows up around the time to separate litters so you may want to learn the art of sexing buns soon. The sex change fairy is who you blame when you sexed wrong and you hopefully don't get a surprise closely linebred litter.

But all bunnies hump. "Bunny parties" and "konga lines" we'd call them as kids.

I guess what I'm saying is, if in doubt, please check to see what they are carrying. Papers don't prove male/female. BUT they could just be two does starting to go to war with each other over shared space.

I'd also avoid being too bashful about rabbits. A lot of their life is dedicated to reproducing. (too much, imo) Also, you must always be on the lookout for split male genitalia (cull, ouchie) and rabbit stds (also painful looking, and you don't want that in your rabbitry). The bum of the rabbit is just as important as the rest of it and beating around the bush too much is going to make it hard to make yourself understood and get done what you need to get done.


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 28, 2020)

Well, first check them and make sure they're both females.  If they are, then one is just trying to be diva bunny.  If the other one doesn't go along with the diva bunny idea, they could get into scuffles.


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## Nao57 (Oct 28, 2020)

rachels.haven said:


> You know, female rabbits do best in a cage of their own. Territory and dominance and fighting and kit killing/thieving issues and such. Might be time for a divider if the cage is big enough.
> 
> Also, does have tacos, bucks have cheerios and...other stuff down there probably by this age. You can always check. If it's a wire cage and not too cold checking for the "other stuff" could just involve looking under the cage bottom.
> 
> ...



Wow. 

Its so complex. I had no idea there was rabbit stds also. :O


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## Nao57 (Oct 28, 2020)

Niele da Kine said:


> Well, first check them and make sure they're both females.  If they are, then one is just trying to be diva bunny.  If the other one doesn't go along with the diva bunny idea, they could get into scuffles.



Wow. Now I am beginning to understand what's meant when people say they are territorial.

I guess I have to separate them soon. :O

Thank you all very much.


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## rachels.haven (Oct 28, 2020)

SOMETIMES you can get away with housing rabbits in a colony. Other times there are horror stories. Not sure what makes the difference.
I x2 what someone else said. Just check to see if they both have tacos and not cheerios. If they have stds you'd be able to see then.
Bunnies do value their space. I've had rabbits that get panicky if you give them too much to "guard" and definitely get angry if another rabbit comes in. Your does may be hitting puberty and wanting their own space. But I don't do rabbits or live on a rabbit farm anymore so feel free to do what your gut says. They are complex little beings, but if you figure out the basics you'll be fine. Be patient with yourself.
Silver foxes are such a pretty fur (and therefore meat) breed. Nice choice.


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 29, 2020)

We fostered a baby bunny from a 'rescued' pet bunny home quite a few years ago and at the time I'd thought their doe had been done in by the neighbor's dog.  I found out later she had just mysteriously died.  Within two years of fostering that baby bunny from outside our herd. the fertility of the herd dropped to about zero.  It was STD and we lost several year's worth of bunny sales from it and almost lost the whole herd from not being able to get new herd members.

There's "vent disease" which is basically bunny syphilis.  It took a shot of penicillin once a week for five weeks to cure the herd.  That was about 100 shots of penicillin and we are now much more aware of herd bio-security.  After we got rid of the syphilis, there was still reduced fertility from permanent damage from the disease and we had to breed older does that would have been optimum since there weren't young ones.  We've now worked through that, but we don't want to do that again.

As for your does, if they are both does they may not need to be separated.  One rabbit humping another can be a dominance thing as well as a mating thing but if it's just occasionally, nobunny is likely to be hurt.  Once they figure out who gets to be diva bunny then they may happily co-habitate again.

We keep a doe herd and sometimes they will chase each other around and play other dominance games.  We let them work it out between themselves as long as nobunny gets wounded.  Is somebunny gets injured, then we will keep the aggressive doe separate, but that's only happened once.  She got sold off to a pet home where she would be the only bunny and she was happy there.  I didn't want to breed that temperament into the herd.

I'm not sure what makes a colony work.  We keep the adult females in big groups and when we change the group members, the whole group is shifted to a new space.  That seems to keep dominance issues down.


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## Ridgetop (Nov 6, 2020)

I bought an expensive Champion Netherland Dwarf buck from a "reputable" breeder in Oregon once.  He said he wanted the rabbit to go out of state to avoid show competition with his offspring.  Turned out that buck had vent disease, aka rabbit syphilis.  Bought him to breed so had bred him to everything by the time the symptoms showed up.  Symptoms come and go in rabbit syphilis as the disease goes "dormant" then flares up.  Contagious during the dormant period though.  Ended up having to put down most of my herd by the time I discovered it.   Found out later that this breeder had beautiful animals but a really dishonest reputation.  He had done this to lots of  other people.

You don't say how old your rabbits are.  If they are approaching 6 months,  a doe mounting another doe is a common sign of wanting to breed.  If you check and they are both females as were sold to you, then it is probable that the doe is approaching breeding age.  You should breed them since unbred does can get a tad mean.  Do you have a buck for them?

Each rabbit should always be in a separate cage.  Rabbits are not herd or flock animals.  They are solitary natured animals and get territorial about their cage space.  That is why you always bring the doe to the buck for breeding.  Does are much more territorial than bucks.  If you want  pet, get a buck since they tend to remain docile whereas does get to breeding age and get hostile unless they are bred.


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