# What to feed bottle babies.



## muscovy94 (Jun 10, 2009)

HEy everyone I have a question.  If I can't find any goat or lamb starter, can I feed a bottle baby regular milk from the store?

       Thanks.


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## Chaty (Jun 10, 2009)

I always feed either whole cows milk or goats milk only....replacer is asking for problems...


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## muscovy94 (Jun 10, 2009)

Chaty said:
			
		

> I always feed either whole cows milk or goats milk only....replacer is asking for problems...


I know this is kind of a ditsy question, but don't they sale whole cows milk in a regular grocery store with all the other milk?


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## haviris (Jun 10, 2009)

I also use regular whole milk from the store or goats milk.


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## jojo@rolling acres farm (Jun 10, 2009)

If you follow the instructions/directions on milk replacer -  you should  not have trouble. Tons of $$$$, and research time goes into these products. Trouble begins when people overfeed or add things to the formula. You also need to pay attention to general health issues and keep the babies clean and comfortable. Deworm on a regualr basis, etc. Watch for Scours.

Mother's milk is always best, but sometimes that option is just not available. I'll go with results - based on research every time...esp. when a baby's health/life depends on it.

Some milk replacers are universal...meaning they are good for foals, calves, kids, lambs etc. Some are species specific. I've used several and have good results with them. Some are easier to mix than others. Some smell better than others...almost like cheesecake.  Some have a higher fat ratio than others. We are currently, using "All Star" for a 4-H bucket calf project with great results...we've also used it for kids with very good results.


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## Roll farms (Jun 11, 2009)

Nothing that comes out of a bag / can / in powder form, IMHO, will ever be close to what's always been in liquid form.

I ALWAYS use Vitamin D whole milk from the grocery if there isn't enough goat's milk to go around, never replacer.

We had kids scour on replacer many years ago, and had a lady who's ran huge dairy goat farms tell me to use cow milk instead and....oila, the scours went away.  
It's hard for them to digest the replacer sometimes.

I even did a cost comparison last year (trying to save every penny, like we all are) and checked to see how it compared, price-wise.  
Even using the cheaper, Uni-Milk replacer was more expensive than buying whole milk on sale.  The Kid Replacers are generally more expensive.  
I'd get the milk in bulk and freeze it for when I needed it.

As always, to each their own and what works for one won't always work for another....but the majority of small-scale goat farmers I know do use whole milk.

(Whole cows milk just means, not 2% or skim...)


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 11, 2009)

I don't deal with goats so, I can't advise which is best but, I do want to say, if you go with the milk replacer remember you get what you pay for. Cheap milk replacer is just that, cheap. If you want quality you have to pay for it.


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## Roll farms (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree 100%, Farmer Kitty.   
I'm of the opinion if you can't afford the best thing for the animals, you don't need the animals to begin with.  I didn't try the unimilk, just did a cost-comparison to satisfy myself that using milk was best for the animals AND most cost-effective.
I work at a TSC store and have found, though...MOST people who jump into animals, do so w/ the desire to do it as cheaply as possible...heaven forbid they have to spend a little money to deworm, buy good feed, etc.
So we sell the cheap replacers to folks who've bought cheap(er) sale-barn kids, who then come in and then buy the cheapest medicines to clear up the scours, and then complain that "goats are too hard to raise."


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 11, 2009)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I agree 100%, Farmer Kitty.
> I'm of the opinion if you can't afford the best thing for the animals, you don't need the animals to begin with.  I didn't try the unimilk, just did a cost-comparison to satisfy myself that using milk was best for the animals AND most cost-effective.
> I work at a TSC store and have found, though...MOST people who jump into animals, do so w/ the desire to do it as cheaply as possible...heaven forbid they have to spend a little money to deworm, buy good feed, etc.
> So we sell the cheap replacers to folks who've bought cheap(er) sale-barn kids, who then come in and then buy the cheapest medicines to clear up the scours, and then complain that "goats are too hard to raise."


I hear you!


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## Rence (Jun 11, 2009)

I think this is always going to be simply a matter of opinion kind of thing. A lot of people will only use milk replacer and prefer it, even when the real stuff is readily available.  

I, otoh, am very blessed to have a Jersey and when I was asked to raise a bottle baby calf for a neighbor, I asked him to just keep his replacer at home because I prefer (and have at my disposal) fresh to replacer.

But I do agree that the cheap stuff is probably where the problems come from. 

IMOHO, store bought milk and milk replacer aren't too much different.


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## KareyABohr (Jun 11, 2009)

I have had great luck with kid milk replacer for my bottle billy's. Just make sure you MEASURE, measure, measure or else they will bloat and over eat. I get it at the feed store, but it is pricey $67 per 50lb. bag.


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## username taken (Jun 12, 2009)

jojo@rolling acres farm said:
			
		

> If you follow the instructions/directions on milk replacer -  you should  not have trouble. Tons of $$$$, and research time goes into these products. Trouble begins when people overfeed or add things to the formula. You also need to pay attention to general health issues and keep the babies clean and comfortable. Deworm on a regualr basis, etc. Watch for Scours.
> 
> Mother's milk is always best, but sometimes that option is just not available. I'll go with results - based on research every time...esp. when a baby's health/life depends on it.
> 
> Some milk replacers are universal...meaning they are good for foals, calves, kids, lambs etc. Some are species specific. I've used several and have good results with them. Some are easier to mix than others. Some smell better than others...almost like cheesecake.  Some have a higher fat ratio than others. We are currently, using "All Star" for a 4-H bucket calf project with great results...we've also used it for kids with very good results.


HALLELUJAH!

Finally a voice of reason!

I've raised hundreds of babies on replacer, there is nothing wrong with it. Get an all milk replacer, no soy, with at the very least 20% fat 20% protein. 

Not sure what the deal is in US, but my milk replacer (which is the most expensive on the market) works out to $0.90 per litre, I certainly cant buy milk from the store for that price.


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## jojo@rolling acres farm (Jun 12, 2009)

usernametaken:

Agreed... my use of milk replacer has been nothing but positive! I've used it for 6 years and will continue to do so  - based on my results. BTW - thanks for your support! I was feeling pretty beat up over this posting. I was just trying to answer the question and help -  based upon on my experience. I think, that's what's expected of us - right? Yikes!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 12, 2009)

jojo@rolling acres farm said:
			
		

> usernametaken:
> 
> Agreed... my use of milk replacer has been nothing but positive! I've used it for 6 years and will continue to do so  - based on my results. BTW - thanks for your support! I was feeling pretty beat up over this posting. I was just trying to answer the question and help -  based upon on my experience. I think, that's what's expected of us - right? Yikes!


With the calves, if I leave them on milk I have scour trouble. And like I said before, you get what you pay for with milk replacer. A good one is not cheap. We've tried cheaper ones and had problems. This could account for some of the issues the others have had.


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## jojo@rolling acres farm (Jun 12, 2009)

Yes, I agree "cheap" is never really cheap. However there are so many variables involved...how the animal is acquired,  where it is acquired, kept, what type of health the breeding stock (the mother) enjoyed - or not. I just don't think you can tell someone that milk replacer never works...because it does. If it didn't -  it wouldn't be on the market. And companies that produce it would be out of business. Milk from the baby's mother is always best. But, to dismiss milk replacer as something that never works is wrong. I'm afraid that it scares people away from using it. Issues that people have with babies getting sick maybe secondary to using milk replacer. Cutting corners + animal care = disaster, everytime!


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## kstaven (Jun 13, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> jojo@rolling acres farm said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. Never have had an issue when using milk replacer and it still is cheaper than buying milk from the store.


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## farmergal (Jun 13, 2009)

I've been feeding my baby Nigerian Dwarf doeling whole cow milk -- she seems to be doing A-OK.  Most recently, I bought some non-homogenized stuff, and it's nice to be able to see the fat/cream that she's getting, although it's probably not too different in terms of nutrition from the on-sale homogenized stuff.

Someone told me that cow's milk works especially well for Nigerian Dwarfs because the milk from Nigis has the highest butterfat content of any of the goats... so fatty cow milk is good for the babies, they need the extra calories.

I was also told to feed 15% of their body weight each day, split between three meals.  Does anyone else have input on how much to bottle feed babies?  It's been hard for me to find info on Nigis because all of the classic Storey's-type books are geared towards the big dairy goats, not the little ones.

PS -- I'm really excited about this site!  I just joined, but I've been with BYC under the same name for almost a year.


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## haviris (Jun 13, 2009)

For me it varies by the kid, some need more, some need less. I feed mine starting w/ 5 feedings a day, cut that to 4 after a few weeks (again depending on the kid). My current kid is nearly 8 weeks and getting 3-4 bottles a day.

I feed as much as the kid wants to eat. That can't be done w/ a kid that has been limited, because they are likely to overeat, but if it's done from the start they do fine.

Don't know if that is exactly what you were asking, but I hope it helps!


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## Roll farms (Jun 13, 2009)

I feed newborns 4 feedings of colostrum over 24 hours, then go to 3 bottles a day (as much as they will take) if they're eating well, until 8 weeks.  Then I take them to 2 bottles a day (providing they're eating grain and hay by now), at 10 weeks they go to 1 bottle, and by 3 mos. old I've weaned them.  

I've raised everything from pygmies to boers that way and so far it's worked well...probably only by shear dumb luck b/c when I started out, there wasn't near the info out there available, online or in books and magazines, that there is available today.

When I started, you couldn't get good kid replacer anywhere near here.  It was the "multi species" or cow-type only, and either I'm an idiot who couldn't mix it, or it wasn't well-tolerated by the kids I had, because I really did have scour issues until I switched to cow's milk.

As always, I say do what works best for you, and I'm glad those of you who use replacer have good luck w/ it.  
I just never did.


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## username taken (Jun 14, 2009)

Best thing to do is feed roughly 20% of the kid's body weight

And monitor their sides - you want them just straight on the sides or slightly bulging after a feed - not hollow but also not hugely bulging.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 14, 2009)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I feed newborns 4 feedings of colostrum over 24 hours, then go to 3 bottles a day (as much as they will take) if they're eating well, until 8 weeks.  Then I take them to 2 bottles a day (providing they're eating grain and hay by now), at 10 weeks they go to 1 bottle, and by 3 mos. old I've weaned them.
> 
> I've raised everything from pygmies to boers that way and so far it's worked well...probably only by shear dumb luck b/c when I started out, there wasn't near the info out there available, online or in books and magazines, that there is available today.
> 
> ...


It's my guess that you didn't have a choice of a good quality milk replacer. It's to bad that the stores/mills near you didn't give you a good choice.  I know here the best choices are found in the feedmills. The farm supply stores just have okay stuff.


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## Griffin's Ark (Jun 14, 2009)

Some people swear by whole milk and some by replacer.  The big thing is protein and fat.  Whole milk does not have the protein or fat that a kid needs.  It does work and the kids do tolerate it better, but in the long run it is worse for the kid.  We used several milk replacers this year on four Nubian Kids.  The best replacer by a long shot was Sav-a-Kid.  The Purina gave uncontrolled scours, and the other was made by Manna pro I think, it was ok but still we fought scours.  The Sav-a-Kid made out life much easier, but agian you have to be ready to pay the price.  Our feed bill rose by $50 a month, but the boys are healthy, happy and of course noisy!

Chris


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## haviris (Jun 15, 2009)

I've never used replacer, so I don't comment on that. I do use whole milk and if I'm asked what to feed that is what I recommend. I figure it's one of those things where you use what works for you, but I don't bash the replacer, just don't have any experience w/ it. (I'm pretty sure you can't get kid replacer here locally anyway, I know you can get it at Atwoods, one hour away, but haven't check to see what kinds they carry)

My kids do great on the whole milk, they not only survive, but they thrive, so I figure why mess w/ what works?


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