# San Clemente Island Goats



## WorthItFarms (Feb 2, 2011)

We are scheduled to get 4 in a few months. Anyone else have any of these or any experience with them? They are SUPER rare and endangered so I know I can't expect many to have experience with them.


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## tiffanyh (Feb 2, 2011)

No experience, sorry, but they are very very pretty. Look like antelopes.


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## themrslove (Feb 2, 2011)

Haha they look like big Nigerian Dwarfs!  I have no experience with them...but they certainly are beautiful animals!!!  Congrats!


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## ksalvagno (Feb 2, 2011)

No experience with them but I love their markings!


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## Roll farms (Feb 2, 2011)

No experience w/ them but they're reputed to be super hardy, along the same lines as Kiko or Spanish goats...basically a 'breed' of goats descended from dairy goats that went feral after they were left on the island by explorers long ago.

I'd like to get some but...sooo many breeds, so far away.  Congrats.


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## emilypaonia (Feb 3, 2011)

wow, these are beautiful goats!  where/who are you getting them from?  are they good milkers?  they are so cute!


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## emilypaonia (Feb 3, 2011)

found this website, i'm sure you have seen it, how wonderful!  thanks fr introducing them to me!

http://www.scigoats.org/


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## WorthItFarms (Feb 3, 2011)

We are getting them from a breeder in Middletown, NY. They are SUPER endangered. There is very little information from them on what type of milk they produce. I believe in the SCI site (the link you found) it has one page on a milk test that was done, but it's by no means concise. They are super hardy and disease-resistant, but much smaller than Kikos - thankfully. We're going to cross-breed them with Spanish does to sell for meat. I've heard a rumor that the cross is to be called the "Victorian". We should see the F1 offspring born this spring. It will definitely be interesting.


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## boothcreek (Feb 4, 2011)

Oh I like those!!!!! I love black and Tan coloured things with badger markings!
I have sworn to never ever get a goat(goats + me never seems to mix) but they got me rethinking that decision.....  and look see there are breeders in my province!


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 4, 2011)

They aren't really endagered persay as a true and unique species. The navy has been wiping them out for years, because of the damage they cause to unique endangered species of flora and small animals native to the island. I do like the goats because they have learned to adapt and evolve, but by no means are they a true seperate and unique species that has become endagered because of man. They are feral goats.


Now don't take what i am saying as they have no value in saving. I quite enjoy them and would love to have a few. i am originally from San Clemente actually. I am merely stating they are goats that were dropped off at an island.....


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## elevan (Feb 4, 2011)

jason_mazzy said:
			
		

> Now don't take what i am saying as they have no value in saving. I quite enjoy them and would love to have a few. i am originally from San Clemente actually. I am merely stating they are goats that were dropped off at an island.....


Isolation (and islands are great for it) is evolutions best friend.  Which is why places like Madagascar and Australia have species that are unique to their islands.  Those species do have familial ancestry to mainland creatures, but does that make them any less of a unique species?


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## chandasue (Feb 5, 2011)

They are gorgeous!!! Congrats!   And IMO (which doesn't mean much...) Great choice in expanding a rare breed!


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## WorthItFarms (Feb 5, 2011)

They aren't a endangered SPECIES, but they are a critically endangered BREED as stated by the ALBC (http://www.albc-usa.org/). They have some uniquely concentrated genetics that were once thought to be Spanish, but actually have no Spanish genes.


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## elevan (Feb 5, 2011)

Sorry, I meant to say breed...not species...but the same principal applies.

When left in an isolated area, creatures evolve and though they may have a familial ancestry to other creatures like them, they evolve to something unique.

Once they become unique, then they should be preserved.  imo


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 5, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> jason_mazzy said:
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no because you are talking about natural selection of an animal meant to be there, that have developed over thousands of years minimum. not a mammal that was dropped off on an island where it evolved, but also destroyed the eco system that was in place.


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## elevan (Feb 5, 2011)

jason_mazzy said:
			
		

> elevan said:
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Recent science has proven that evolution of an animal can happen in as little as 100 years.

How the group of breeding animals became isolated is of little consequence in an evolutionary standpoint.

Any time a new species of animal is brought to a new area (however they get there) they will cause damage to the surrounding environment, because the surrounding environment is not adapted to that new animal.  This allows for more evolution because those natural flora and fauna must evolve as well.  Some plant materials will develop an offending taste (this has happened before in a very short time frame), they may also develop physical barriers that protect them (think of the Honey Locust Tree).

While not an ideal situation to just drop off a new species onto an island it is not usually the end of the world.  There are some exceptions to that but I highly doubt that a herd of goats is one.  Humans have done more harm to the flora and fauna of this planet than any other species on it.

I'm not saying that the species / breed should be allowed to run rampant (since it is feral) over the island, but their unique breed should be preserved by those capable and willing to do so.  How many species / breeds of animals have we lost because we thought that their slight uniqueness wasn't important enough to save...I'm just saying.


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## jason_mazzy (Feb 5, 2011)

Like I said I am from the area. I would enjoy having them. But they are not a unique species, they are an endangered breed, but in the end they are just FERAL goats, that have a few adaptations. I like the genetic diversity of them, and they would be great to raise as an endangered breed. 

as to the point of animals ruining things on islands, yes goats can ruin a complete island and biosphere, so can rats and especially pigs. The Navy exterminated the goats for a reason, and science has been pushing for the extermination of introduced island species all over the world because of the hugely negative factor they have.


So in summation:

I like the Goat
I would love to be part of their survival
They do have some neat genetics

They are feral
They do not belong on the island



edit* spelling


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## elevan (Feb 5, 2011)

jason_mazzy said:
			
		

> So in summation:
> 
> I like the Goat
> I would love to be part of their survival
> ...


Glad you don't want them exterminated.  We (humans) put them there, it's up to us to figure out a way to make it work now that they've evolved their "neat genetics".

Whether they belong on the island...I've never lived there...anything I could say to that would be my opinion only (either way really).

Good debate Jason.  It's always good for differing views to express their opinions.  It makes others think and look closer at the subject.  


WorthItFarms - Congratulations on helping to preserve this endangered breed of goat.  I commend you and look forward to seeing more pictures of these lovely creatures.

Em


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## SpeedysBigRed (Mar 5, 2011)

They are a beautiful, and unique goat. I was on the island in 1963 with the navy and saw many roaming wild across the terrain. I also remember that hunts were organized to keep the population in check. At the time I thought I would like to have a few to raise once I got out of the navy. Frankly, I had forgotten completely about them until I ran across this post. Now that I again see their status I might seriously look into owning a couple for breeding once I get settled in NM.


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## DonnaBelle (Mar 5, 2011)

So many goats, so little time.

DonnaBelle


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## Hangtown Farms (Jul 4, 2014)

Worthit do you have pictures of the cross? would love to see the Spanish x San Clemente Crosses


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