# Unexpected babies-who is the mother??



## KDailey (Mar 22, 2012)

We have tried to breed our does several times over the last 6 months and the previous owner had the one doe for another 6 months before I had them and no babies so we had pretty much given up on them  I left both does in a hutch with each of them having their own buck buddy  and maybe increase our chances. 

The bucks are relatively young and we have never seen them be successful in their attempts to breed. We still kept an eye on everybody though just in case and watched for any sign that they were expecting. 

I get home and start to feed the animals and when I get to the rabbit pens there is a tiny, hairless, newborn baby bunny in the section of the hutch where I keep my 2 month old bunny doe. Surely it's not hers so I start looking around. There are 4 more on the ground (1 is dead) under the hutch and one in the section of the hutch next to the young doe. I don't have a clue who the babies belong to!
I get Ryan and we try to work it out by process of elimination and we see yet another baby hidden by the feeder in the same pen as the last baby and so decide they belong to her, my black/white Dutch doe. So we snuggle them into a nest box filled with hay and are hoping for the best. There were 7 total and 6 are doing good so far. 

But my concern is this. What if we're wrong and they aren't hers? She hasn't tried to kill or eat them but I still worry. Also, she doesn't seem at all interested in the babies. At all. What should I look for as far as signs that they aren't getting fed enough or aren't getting the right attention? 

If she doesn't take care of them then what should I do? What do I feed them? How soon can I tell how many boys and girls? 

Any advice for a new bunny grandma?


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## KDailey (Mar 22, 2012)

I need to add that neither doe is pulling hair which is one of the main things we were looking for


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## PinkFox (Mar 22, 2012)

well i can tell you bunnies arnt "attentive" mommas usually...thats not to say their bad mommas, but they are a high prey animal so generlaly momma wants to avoid attracting predators to the nest.  because of this shell generally feed them in the early morning hours just before dawn (and often again just after dusk) so you may never actually see her in with the babies
if being fed though the babies should have a comfortably full looking tummy sometimes with a little white visible if theyve reacently fed.

if you have to pull them theres lots of websites out there that explains how to bottle raise bunnies but im told the sucess rate is fairly low.


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## ohiogoatgirl (Mar 22, 2012)

rabbit moms arent like other animals where they are lawys watchin and attentive. they feed once or twice a day and maybe look in a few times over the day. thats it. 

thats odd that none pulled any fur... from what i have read and from my very little bit of experience so far is that they will at least pull some about 24 hours before or after they kindle...

you might want to try holding each doe and hold the kits up to the nipples. see which one they can nurse off of... 

hope ya figure it out


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## KDailey (Mar 23, 2012)

ohiogoatgirl said:
			
		

> thats odd that none pulled any fur... from what i have read and from my very little bit of experience so far is that they will at least pull some about 24 hours before or after they kindle...


That's exactly what I thought. We were keeping the nest box out of the pens becuase since we didn't know when they were bred or due since they're kept with the bucks we were watching for hair pulling. None of them pulled hair. There wasn't any hair in the pen or on the ground underneath, no where. And none of them have pulled hair this morning either (thought they might just be late)


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## PinkFox (Mar 23, 2012)

i know young mommas sometimes dont pull...


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## DianeS (Mar 23, 2012)

First time moms don't always do what they're supposed to do, to prepare for babies. Many don't pull hair, or build a nest, or have the kits in a nest that's already there, or nurse. Those first time kits usually die. They tend to do MUCH better with their second and later litters, it's like it takes that first one for their instincts to kick in.

Be aware that does are often the most receptive to breeding immediately after giving birth. So now is the time to take your does to visit the buck, if you want more kits.


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## hemet dennis (Mar 23, 2012)

KDailey said:
			
		

> ohiogoatgirl said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If there is a CHANCE they could have babies put a nest box in! ! ! ! ! !


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## KDailey (Mar 23, 2012)

We were keeping nest boxes in the cages 24/7 but all they do is pee and poop in them and eat the hay out of it. These boxes are wooden so the pee soaks into them. We had to rebuild new nest boxes because they ruined those. That is why we were watching for signs of pregnancy. 

I do not appreciate the rudeness *helmet dennis*. I am learning and was doing the best I can. They did not look pregnant, act pregnant and on top of that  they've gone at least a year with no babies so we were pretty sure they weren't going to have any but we were giving it one last go. I found the babies quickly and they are doing fine now. It's a rookie mistake, that's all. If you have helpful advice I am glad to hear it but the capital letters, excessive exclamation marks, head-banging smiley and slap in the face smiley weren't necessary. 

For those of you that are interested, here's a picture of the little cuties. I can already see their colors coming through 

Mama rabbit: She doesn't have the correct color pattern but was told we might get some correct babies breeding her to the buck. 






Daddy rabbit: harlequin dutch and a real sweetie 





And the little munchkins. There are two black and white dutch. One looks exactly like mama and the other looks like it will have the correct markings. One is very obviously a harlequin like daddy and one looks like it will be orange dutch but the little guy in the bottom of the picture is a mystery to me. It's not black and white but it's definately darker than the other babies. The other one I couldn't see this morning as it was underneath so I'm not sure what color it is other that it's definately not black/white.


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## terri9630 (Mar 23, 2012)

If you pick up the does you should be able to feel swollen nipples on the momma.  Add baby saver wire to keep the kits in the cage next time.


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## hemet dennis (Mar 23, 2012)

KDailey said:
			
		

> We were keeping nest boxes in the cages 24/7 but all they do is pee and poop in them and eat the hay out of it. These boxes are wooden so the pee soaks into them. We had to rebuild new nest boxes because they ruined those. That is why we were watching for signs of pregnancy.
> 
> I do not appreciate the rudeness *helmet dennis*. I am learning and was doing the best I can. They did not look pregnant, act pregnant and on top of that  they've gone at least a year with no babies so we were pretty sure they weren't going to have any but we were giving it one last go. I found the babies quickly and they are doing fine now. It's a rookie mistake, that's all. If you have helpful advice I am glad to hear it but the capital letters, excessive exclamation marks, head-banging smiley and slap in the face smiley weren't necessary.


When you take an animal and put it in a cage that makes YOU responsible for everything to care for them. You can make nest boxes with wire bottoms for does that pee in them and anytime you put a nest box in to early most will poop and pee in them. To clean nest boxes spray with bleach water and set out in the sun. There are nest boxes with replaceable bottoms.  Did you do any research before deciding to get rabbits ? 
 Where did you get the idea to leave the bucks and does together ? Their are some people that raise rabbits in a colony setting but there is always a kindling spot for them 24/7. 
 You can change my name to whatever makes you feel better about yourself, but next time you decide to get a new animal do so research not for me or you but for the animal.


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## KDailey (Mar 24, 2012)

The name change was just a mis-read of your name. Nothing was intended by it and I apologize. 

And I did do research and my neighbor raised rabbits for a long time. Most of my information came from her and most of it lined up with what I read on the internet. I've never heard of nest boxes with wire bottoms. Excuse me for not happening onto the correct website to read about them. Now I know.

As far as leaving them with the buck, as I mentioned before these does haven't had any kits in the last year no matter how many times they were put in with the bucks so we figured they were infertile or had some other problem that was preventing them from having babies. Leaving them in with the buck was a last ditch effort. They've been in with the bucks for several months and the one doe is just now having babies. All previous breedings we kept track of when they should be due and put nest boxes in accordingly only to have no babies. We had been doing everything right up until this moment. We have now put a nest box in with the other doe just in case.

Some people's attitudes just amaze me. I come here to learn and find help. Yes I made a mistake but everything turned out ok and I'm just trying to get more advice so this doesn't happen again. I'm sure everyone here has had a boo-boo happen some time in their animal-raising career and they probably learned from it and it didn't happen again or they knew what to do if it did. I am more than happy to listen to any advice you have to offer, such as the wire bottomed nest boxes (I really hadn't heard about them or thought of them myself)  but the attitude really isn't necessary. 

I also have horses, chickens, ducks and geese and I've done research about every single species before I got them. This is the first time I've ever had anything like this happen. I even have a bottle calf we had to take when it's mama couldn't feed it and she is doing wonderfully. I'm not an uncaring person and I didn't do this intentionally. It should be proof enough that I care that I came here and asked questions and for advice. If I didn't care I wouldn't have asked now would I?


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## PinkFox (Mar 24, 2012)

KDailey i wouldnt worry too much, they look nice and healthy, just watch them for growth (assuming this is momma they should grow like little weeds lol, my kits have almost trippled in size in a week there little piggies lol)
poeple are passionate and some people have no tact or manners...
i guess sometimes the "more flies with honey than vinegar" line goes amiss somewhere, just dust it off, you found them in time you know better for the future...there will always be at least one person who not only rains on the parade but stomps all over it too so try not to sweat the petty stuff.

wonder why it took so long for a sucessfull litter though?!  how old are the buck and does? and whats your weather been like? (heat effects fertility)

Glad they sem to be doing fine...generally by now if you were ging to loose any due to wrong do/not feeding it would have happend by now so looks like you definatly got the right girl in all.


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## RPC (Mar 24, 2012)

Congrats on the new kits they look nice. I understand what you are saying about  leaving the does with the bucks and not keeping a nesting box in there. I think I would have done that same thing and waited to see fur being pulled. Good luck and I hope you have fat, healthy, and happy bunnies.


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## lastfling (Mar 26, 2012)

As far as wire bottom nest boxes - that's what I use and have built.  I line the bottom of mine with cardboard cut to fit the inside dimensions of the box.  What I find is that normally the doe will scratch, dig it out, but if placed in two layers, she normally doesn't go thru to the wire.  The advantage is that for those doe's that like to use the box as a restroom, the cardboard can be easily replaced.  Same is true for the kits over time, if/when the bottom gets dirty, just replace the cardboard.  In cold weather I also place a piece of sheetrock, again cut to the size of the box, under the box for insulation from the cold, in case the cardboard is dug up.


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## hemet dennis (Mar 26, 2012)

lastfling said:
			
		

> As far as wire bottom nest boxes - that's what I use and have built.  I line the bottom of mine with cardboard cut to fit the inside dimensions of the box.  What I find is that normally the doe will scratch, dig it out, but if placed in two layers, she normally doesn't go thru to the wire.  The advantage is that for those doe's that like to use the box as a restroom, the cardboard can be easily replaced.  Same is true for the kits over time, if/when the bottom gets dirty, just replace the cardboard.  In cold weather I also place a piece of sheetrock, again cut to the size of the box, under the box for insulation from the cold, in case the cardboard is dug up.


And with nothing under it keeps them cooler in the heat.


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