# 7 Month Old Spanish Doe Acting Drunk



## goatboy1973 (Nov 23, 2013)

I have a 7 month old Spanish doe who currently runs with 8 other Spanish goats of the same approximate age and 20 commercial meat does and a male and female guardian llama. Today we found her lying in a cedar thicket on her side kicking her feet as if running. Her respirations appeared normal and I attempted to stand her up and she stood for a few seconds and then collapsed. She, along with the other 8 Spanish goats were purchased 2 1/2 months ago from a ranch in Texas. I quarantined them for a few weeks and helped them get acclimated to E. Tennessee weather and browse without any problems. Prior to turnout with the 20+ commercial does, they were all dewormed with Cydectin pour-on and re-tagged. No other goat is showing signs or symptoms of anything. These goats have free choice clean well water, loose goat mineral (CO-OP brand for goats), free choice goat protein block (Tractor Supply brand), and 20 new acres of freshly fenced in overgrown woodland and pasture with a square bale or 2 daily of good grass hay. I brought her to the barn in a stall and gave her LA200 sub Q 2mls, a dose of Probios paste for goats, Cydectin pour-on (orally at 5mls), Nutri-drench liquid vitamin dose orally, Copasure copper supplement capsule orally, and a couple of prenatal vitamins with iron. After about 30 mins she seems to be a bit more alert but still lying on her side acting wierd. Her gums and eyelids seem to be good and pink so I don't suspect internal parasites and severe anemia as the culprit. I was an Vet tech 20 yrs. ago and have been in the goat biz for 13 yrs. and have never seen this before. Any suggestions?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2013)

Listeria or tetanus?


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 23, 2013)

I have the records where the Spanish goats had their CD&T's in April 2013. I don't know anything about Listeria though.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2013)

What is she doing now? Any improvement? If not and Listeria is suspected treatment must be immediate. Be as specific as you can be. What are her eyes doing? Head? any tilt- even slight?
High doses of anti-biotics must be given in order to cross the blood brain barrier.
Dexamethasone, probios, keep upright.... anyway can walk you through if you can not get ahold of your vet.
Do you think she ate something poisonous?


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 23, 2013)

Possibly might have eaten something poisonous being that they were born in Tx and then transplanted in Tn it's quite a possibility. All she's doing is running in place while lying on her side. Still breathing normal and her eyes look alright (she had normal pupillary reaction) and blinks her eyes when I touch her eyelids. I'm going to take her to the vet. This is way over my head. I wish I had some liquid activated charcoal and a stomach tube. In the future I will add this to my emergency bag. I do have a normal saline I.V. Set-up and Vet wrap to secure an I.V.    BTW, she is not a bit bloated and she has adequate gut sounds without abnormalities. She seems to be normal temp. not cold in any of her extremities or her core and her lungs sound good also.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2013)

BTW- not all goats will have all symptoms. We brought a goat through listeria in Aug/Sept. longest 3 weeks of my life. She made it!


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 23, 2013)

Good info. Is there a Listeria vaccination?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2013)

Keep her upright. laying on her side too long can cause bloat.
I suspected listeria with my girl immediately... vet said no, can't be... started a different course of treatment... she was almost dead at day 3, we went with our gut and changed treatment for listeria. Glad we did.
Hope to hear a good report! Please keep us updated as you can. 
Will be thinking about y'all and your doe.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2013)

I am not aware of one. My girl didn't start the eye thing for a few days. Our first sypmtoms were a slight tilt of the head and a slower walk. It went downhill real fast.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 23, 2013)

Thanks so much for your concern. I'll keep you posted.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 23, 2013)

I noticed none of this prior to finding her in this condition today.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2013)

If you can't get her to the vet til morning but can get approval I'd start her on Dura-Penn... for our 65-70 lb Nigie she had to have 7-8 cc 2x day. This will start the process of crossing the blood brain barrier.
The symptom you describe says neurological.
Can she eat? Drink? move her head?
I hope it isn't listeria, but she can make it through if it is.


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## bonbean01 (Nov 23, 2013)

Wow...that sounds serious and hope your girl makes it!!! 

Glad you were on here Southern...good info from you and helps to not feel all alone during an emergency


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 23, 2013)

She can't eat but can still swallow good and she moves her head. I am giving her the Nutridrench and she is tolerating it well. I will give more antibiotics before taking her to the vet. I am going to load her for the trip to the vet.


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## bonbean01 (Nov 23, 2013)




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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2013)

Nutridrench is great... we gave that at double dose also.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 23, 2013)

hit the daggone post button. Grrr... anyway if she has starts to have more difficulty make sure you give her water through a syringe. They can often swallow but cannot use their tongue well enough to drink and can get dehydrated. In other words they cannot grasp the hay or lick up the water. you can also feed leaves by hand. Leaves would be better than hay.
We also give probios mixed with water to keep the rumin going with all the antibiotics.
Heading to bed... but will be up with pups and checking in.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks! Nite!


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## bonbean01 (Nov 24, 2013)

How's your girl doing today?  It wasn't that long ago that Southern was fighting for one of her's life, and she survived. 

So cold and windy here in NE Mississippi, and I'm sure no different in TN...miserable night to be out there nursing a sick critter


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## Southern by choice (Nov 24, 2013)

I know Bon... I woke up thinking about the doe. 
The only other thing I can think of is enterotoxemia... The paddling part... in that case I think you have to give the anti-toxin. Not too familiar with this. But she isn't having diarrhea or screaming etc.
Waiting to hear too. 
If it is listeria the tissue damage cannot be reversed so it is something to consider.
My doe was infertile anyway and we had kept her as a pet.  If she were a breeding animal I would have put her down. She walks a little wobbly now and is definitely "off" ... daggone goats. The things we do for them.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 24, 2013)

Sorry for the delayed update, she is holding her own today. She made it through the night and she may be a little better. She is getting some fluids and activated charcoal to help absorb any toxins that may be in her system. She might have got into some wild mushrooms. She is noticeably more active today and more vocal today. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. She is slated to be a brood doe and I am planning to breed her Fall 2014 for her first kidding. Thanks also to all who posted advice as well as concern.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 24, 2013)

Glad to hear it!   Is she standing yet?


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 24, 2013)

Not standing yet but she is trying. She is definitely a fighter. Everything has been done for her that can possibly be done. Now it's just waiting and let the meds and other treatments take their course and see what happens.


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## bonbean01 (Nov 24, 2013)

Hope she makes it!!!!  That fighter instinct in some is pretty strong.  Hoping your next update, she will be standing!!!!


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## Southern by choice (Nov 24, 2013)

I know it sounds kinda corny but I'll be waiting with ya. 
Hoping she pulls through! 
So the vet thinks some kind of poisonous plant/mushroom?


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## bonbean01 (Nov 24, 2013)

Well Southern...I'm waiting too...so I must be super corny since I have sheep and not goats


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## SheepGirl (Nov 25, 2013)

I had these same symptoms in a couple newborn lambs. They would be fine but then I would find them on their sides, paddling their legs. Im not sure what caused it and they passed away before the vet could get back to me or before I could get ahold of some treatments for them.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 25, 2013)

bonbean01 said:


> Hope she makes it!!!!  That fighter instinct in some is pretty strong.  Hoping your next update, she will be standing!!!!


Thanks for your concern. I hope she's standing too.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 25, 2013)

Southern by choice said:


> I know it sounds kinda corny but I'll be waiting with ya.
> Hoping she pulls through!
> So the vet thinks some kind of poisonous plant/mushroom?


Yep! She got activated charcoal and IV fluids yesterday. Hopefully the fluids will help flush out any poisons that the activated charcoal didn't bind up.


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## bonbean01 (Nov 25, 2013)

Rooting for your girl!


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 25, 2013)

I just wanted to let everyone know that my Spanish doeling passed this afternoon. I got the call this morning that she had no change in condition and by 4pm she had passed. Thanks to all who gave advice, thanks also for thoughts and prayers sent my way. You all are great! Have a wonderful evening.  Matt


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 25, 2013)

So sorry to hear the bad news.  I had followed the thread, but didn't have any advice to offer.


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## elevan (Nov 25, 2013)

I'm very sorry to hear this.  Will you be having a necropsy done to determine what was going on with her?


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 25, 2013)

elevan said:


> I'm very sorry to hear this.  Will you be having a necropsy done to determine what was going on with her?



You bet.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 25, 2013)

Oh gosh gb1973  I am so so sorry. I truly share your sadness.


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## bonbean01 (Nov 25, 2013)

So sorry...was really hoping for good news.


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## alsea1 (Nov 25, 2013)

Oh no. Thats a bummer deal. 
Hopefully they will be able to give you some info on what happened.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 26, 2013)

bonbean01 said:


> So sorry...was really hoping for good news.


Yeah me too.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 26, 2013)

alsea1 said:


> Oh no. Thats a bummer deal.
> Hopefully they will be able to give you some info on what happened.


Yeah, anxiously awaiting some insight on exactly what the culprit was. All the rest of the herd is doing fine including the llamas and herders (border collies).


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## elevan (Nov 26, 2013)

Please keep us posted on what the issue was.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 26, 2013)

elevan said:


> Please keep us posted on what the issue was.


Will do.


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## bonbean01 (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks!  As I mentioned before, I have sheep and not goats...but they seem to have quite a number of diseases and health problems that are the same.  Glad none of others you have are showing signs of this!!!!


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 27, 2013)

Got word late last night that my Spanish doeling died of gastric torsion. Her rumen was flip flopped and twisted. This was how she met her demise. Just amazing how the symptoms mimicked listeriosis, enterotoxemia, and tetanus. No wonder the huge doses of PCN did not even make a difference and the toxoid also. No real way to prevent this either, just a freak occurrence. Such is the cycle of life! From the time you are born there's a battle between new cell genesis and old cells dying, eventually as time goes on, the battle of genesis succumbs to cell death and the whole organism ceases to live.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 27, 2013)

Wow, I am shocked. I am also very sorry, poor girl.
How are you doing?


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## bonbean01 (Nov 27, 2013)

I didn't know that could even happen...thank you for posting the results, and again, so sorry this happened.  Now you know that the rest of them have not contracted anything from her and that is a relief.

My Dad once had a horse that just up and died and it was from a twisted gut.  Didn't know this could happen with rumens too.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 27, 2013)

Southern by choice said:


> Wow, I am shocked. I am also very sorry, poor girl.
> How are you doing?



Thanks for asking SBC and thanks for all your advice and concern also. Very comforting. I am fine. I guess as long as you raise livestock the law of averages says that no matter how good you provide for your animals some will just die. Such as the case here. I hate to lose any of my goats but especially my Koy Ranch Spaniards.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 27, 2013)

bonbean01 said:


> I didn't know that could even happen...thank you for posting the results, and again, so sorry this happened.  Now you know that the rest of them have not contracted anything from her and that is a relief.
> 
> My Dad once had a horse that just up and died and it was from a twisted gut.  Didn't know this could happen with rumens too.


Yeah, we raised Boxers growing up and our stud dog died from a left displaced abomasum (gastric torsion/ twisted gut).


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 27, 2013)

It was explained to me this way: a full rumen can act as a pendulum and if given the precise conditions, can move enough in just the right way to twist upon itself cutting off blood supply to it and thus causing it to die.


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## elevan (Nov 27, 2013)

Well...I would never have thought that was what was going on.  I guess it's just one of those freak things that can happen given the right circumstances.  Thanks for keeping us posted.  Again, I'm sorry for your loss.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 27, 2013)

elevan said:


> Well...I would never have thought that was what was going on.  I guess it's just one of those freak things that can happen given the right circumstances.  Thanks for keeping us posted.  Again, I'm sorry for your loss.


Thanks Elevan. Everyone have a wonderful Thanksgiving!


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## alsea1 (Nov 27, 2013)

You are right. Sometimes regardless what we do things will happen.
It is good to know what was wrong though. Sets your mind at ease. At least thats how it works for me.


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## bonbean01 (Nov 27, 2013)

I'm so glad you got this checked or you'd be worried for the rest of your herd...this was so sad, but so much better knowing that you  don't have to worry and watch for illness in the others.  Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 27, 2013)

alsea1 said:


> You are right. Sometimes regardless what we do things will happen.
> It is good to know what was wrong though. Sets your mind at ease. At least thats how it works for me.


Yep, just checked the rest of the herd including the llamas and all is well, not even a cough. The rest of the little Spaniard goats from Texas saw their first snow ever. Those little Butterballs were romping in the snow like a herd of monkeys at the zoo. They have put on a thick undercoat and seem to be adapting well. This time of the year when it snows we feed free choice good quality first cutting grass hay, goat specific protein blocks from Tractor Supply Co., and feed every other day since quality of browse this time of the year is in the single digits as far as % protein is concerned.

P.S. Thanks for the , I needed it.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Nov 27, 2013)

Sorry for your loss. So glad you were able to figure out what it was and at least now you can rest easier.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 28, 2013)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:


> Sorry for your loss. So glad you were able to figure out what it was and at least now you can rest easier.


WMR, thanks so much for the kind words and yes, I can sleep easier knowing that I did all I could for her and it wasn't some type of communicable disease that I will have to deal with affecting the rest of the herd. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!!!
​


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## Pearce Pastures (Nov 28, 2013)

Thank you for sharing this.  Very sorry you lost her.


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## goatboy1973 (Nov 29, 2013)

Pearce Pastures said:


> Thank you for sharing this.  Very sorry you lost her.


Thanks.


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