# Considering goats.... Input!!



## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 28, 2012)

Hello everybody!!

We are considering goats, and really need some help with everything that they need. Basically, we know nothing about them, and need to be taught. So I am going to post some questions, and hopefully someone will know the answers! LOL, they are probably all really simple "stupid" questions, but like I said, we know nothing! LOL

-What do they eat? Hay? Grains? How much of each?
-What do they need for shelter?
-Have any of you had luck tying them out, like on a movable dog run vs making a pen?
-What about hoof care? Do it yourself? Pay someone else? 
-Milking... What are good breeds?
-Shots- What their names, what are they for, and how often do they need to be done?
-On average (including any vet costs) how would I spend on 2 goats every month? I realize that this cannot be calculated to the penny, or even the dollar because there are too many variables, but just an estimate.
-How often do you have to breed a goat to keep getting milk?
-How do you "dry out" a goat, and what are the reasons for it?

I will probably think of more questions as I begin to get answers! But, thank you in advance for your help!

BTW, I was considering Nubians... Good dairy breed?


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## SheepGirl (Apr 28, 2012)

Not a goat expert, but...

Maintenance goats will need about 3% of their body weight in grass hay each day. Growing, gestating, and lactating goats will require more hay and/or grain. Free-choice loose supplement should be provided at all times.

A basic three-sided shelter will suffice, but you can go all out and get a four-sided barn as well. Just make sure there is plenty of ventilation. A cold barn is better than a warm/hot barn.

Hoof care is very easy, you can do it yourself. Buy hoof trimmers at the feed store and just trim off the edges of the hoof as/before they roll.

CD/T shots are the most universally recommended vaccine. I believe the dose is 2 cc for goats (as it is for sheep) - given 30 days before kidding or once per year.

The number one cost for raising livestock is feed. If you have pasture, maximize that as much as possible because you will save a lot on feed costs. If you have a 100 lb goat, you will need to feed 3.3 lbs of hay per day for a goat in maintenance (accounting for a 10% waste)...so about 100# of hay per month for one goat...if you can buy 50 lb bales for $5, then it would be $10 per month per goat in maintenance. Again, a lactating/gestating/growing goat will require more feed.

Goat will breed naturally every 6-12+ months. To my understanding, most people breed dairy goats once per year for milk production.

Not sure how to dry off a goat, as I've never done it before, but to my understanding, most people do it 2 months before kidding (in the dairy cattle industry, I know they dry off the cows 2 months before calving).


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 28, 2012)

OK, thank you! Very helpful! Maybe someone else will chime in too!


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## Roll farms (Apr 28, 2012)

yankee'n'moxie said:
			
		

> Hello everybody!!
> 
> We are considering goats, and really need some help with everything that they need. Basically, we know nothing about them, and need to be taught. So I am going to post some questions, and hopefully someone will know the answers! LOL, they are probably all really simple "stupid" questions, but like I said, we know nothing! LOL
> 
> ...


I love Nubians.  Wonderful tasting milk (my favorite).  Cute floppy ears.  Personality to spare.  BUT they aren't for everyone.  They can be quite obnoxious / loud after kidding and at milking / feeding times.  Not all are.  I have been blessed w/ some intelligent / relatively quiet Nubs.
But I just LOVE Oberhasli attitudes / intelligence / personality.

Again, you will hear different answers from different people....just like not everyone wants a chiuahua or a rottweiler...to each their own.  
Meet some goats and see what you LIKE.


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## scrambledmess (Apr 29, 2012)

Not an expert here either, but I answered with my limited experiences.

-What do they eat? Hay? Grains? How much of each?
I have Pygmies and Nubians.  I know the size difference will require difference in amount of feed.  But it just seems to me that my Nubs require so MUCH more feed then the pygmies.  I can feed my pygmies anything and they stay fat and sassy.  I have to be careful not to feed too much or they get really FAT and sassy.  The Nubs... they need good quality feed.  You can't just throw anything out there.  I learned this the HARD way.  

-What do they need for shelter?  Our pygmies have a dog house 

-What about hoof care? Do it yourself? Pay someone else? This really made me nervous to try.  But it was really easy to learn and to do on your own.  My 15 and 13 yo sons learned quick too.  

-Milking... What are good breeds?  Many different.

-Shots- What their names, what are they for, and how often do they need to be done? What the others have said.

-On average (including any vet costs) how would I spend on 2 goats every month? I realize that this cannot be calculated to the penny, or even the dollar because there are too many variables, but just an estimate.  When we just had the pygmies, they cost less then any thing else we owned.  We now have quite a few goats.  4 pygmies and 8 nubs.  We use a bale of hay a day, only the nubs get grain.  Not sure how fast we go through a bag of feed.  We are finally fencing in the pasture this spring.  They will have 2 acres to graze on.  I am hoping that will cut back on the hay a little.



> They can be quite obnoxious / loud after kidding and at milking / feeding times.


This is very true about the Nubs.  LOL  I love them, but they sure let you know when it is feeding time, pet my head time, I just want to annoy the heck out of  you time, oh look the grass is growing time....

We turn ours loose when we are out doing yard work or playing with our human kids.  They are very curious and want to be wherever you are.  They have snuck in the house on many occasions just to say, Hi!


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 29, 2012)

Thanks guys!!


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 29, 2012)

Another question: How long is a goats gestation period?


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## ThreeBoysChicks (Apr 29, 2012)

yankee'n'moxie said:
			
		

> Another question: How long is a goats gestation period?


150 days give or take a few.


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 30, 2012)

Thanks!! How much space should a goat have?? In the barn and outside in a paddock/pasture....


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## that's*satyrical (Apr 30, 2012)

Space would depend on if it's mini or standard breed. The minis don't need much at all. If you are limited with space minis may be the way to go. My does have a pen that is about 60x80 & they usually stay in only their favorite half of that area. Sometimes they branch into the other half the half that is away from their shelter & hay rack & favorite sunning spot but not really very often. My bucks pen is about 20x30 and he is fine with that. He doesn't do much but stand on his favorite tree & scope out the does on that side of the fence lol. The baby bucks are in with the chickens right now & that pen is about the same size as the buck's pen. Eventually they will all be in the bucks pen & one of them will be sold


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok... I was looking at full sized Nubians. So, would that size work for them? I was thinking 2 does. And I hadn't decided on a buck. I have heard that they can be a pain to contain. Anybody had luck using a "buck service"?

Also: Can the milk be compared to cow's milk? As far as using it in recipes, etc? We were thinking of completely replacing the cow's milk that we buy. I have also heard that it tastes different. Which is OK, but is it yucky, or good? And also I have heard that the taste of the milk is affected by what they eat, so do you limit what they eat to hay and grain? Or do you give them free choice to eat whatever?


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## that's*satyrical (Apr 30, 2012)

Don't know about fencing Nubians but they are quite a bit larger. You don't realize how much by pictures!! We have replaced our cow's milk with goats milk. Unless you are exposing your goats to something that makes the milk taste funny or don't chill it quickly enough it tastes the same, if not better! I put mine directly in the freezer after milking to chill it quickly then move it to the refrigerator once it's chilled.


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 30, 2012)

OK! Thanks!!

So, how many small goats do you keep in that 60X80 area? Does it stay grass or is it dirt and you provide the foliage (hay)?

EDIT: Do you do the shots by yourself or have the vet do it? If you do it yourself, where do you buy the vacccines and syringes? Is it relatively easy to learn to do yourself, or do you think I should wait to have someone show me?


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## that's*satyrical (Apr 30, 2012)

yankee'n'moxie said:
			
		

> OK! Thanks!!
> 
> So, how many small goats do you keep in that 60X80 area? Does it stay grass or is it dirt and you provide the foliage (hay)?
> 
> EDIT: Do you do the shots by yourself or have the vet do it? If you do it yourself, where do you buy the vacccines and syringes? Is it relatively easy to learn to do yourself, or do you think I should wait to have someone show me?


In my 60x80 right now I have 5 adult does & 3 babies. Our area is wooded so their pen is browse & the ground is leaf covered for the most part. They get straight alfalfa hay, pretty much unlimited. I do vaccines myself. Easy once you get the hang of it & much, much cheaper. I get vaccines & syringes off Jeffers & order enough stuff when I make an order to get free shipping. If they are not close to you you may need to spend a little on the shipping to speed it along if you're ordering vaccines. It's pretty easy to learn to do the vaccines yourself if you're not too squeamish. Read up on it & give it a shot.


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you soooo much!! That is a big help! 

Also, will we have to clean the milk somehow? Strain it, or something?

EDIT: Do they need alfalfa or is that a preference? Could they eat the hay that we buy for our horses? We buy second crop square bales, good quality!


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## Missy (Apr 30, 2012)

We have two 100 square foot pens. 2 bucks in one(or rather 1 buck and 1 buckling, and 2 does(will be 3 possibly 4) in the other. As said before, my rarely travel too much in the pen, the does tend to stick to the front corner where the food and water is at, occasonally traveling around a bit to nibble at trees in their pen. The buckling full uses his pen, running around, climbing and playing, the buck tends to stick where he can clearly watch "his" girls. They move, he moves. 

I also let them out at least twice a day for an hour each time so they can free range and play with us.


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok... Thank you!

Another question (in addition to my last post's questions): What size shelter? I am thinking something not too big, or too expensive to build, but will last as they grow. Not knowing how big they will get, maybe a 7X10 that could be split into two "stalls"? Or is that too big? That is 5X7 for each goat! That seems big to me, but what do I know? LOL


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## that's*satyrical (Apr 30, 2012)

The standards are fairly large. 5x7 for a Nigie would be plenty big enough but you might need a little more room if you want a standard to be able to move around in there. Although I'm sure that would be fine for short stretches of time. How much rain does your area get? If you live somewhere where it rains a lot you may want bigger. Goats hate getting wet! 

I generally don't strain the milk since it is for personal use & I clean the udder really well with a baby wipe before milking and tilt a mason jar right up to the teat, but if it's been raining or something & the goats are really nasty I do strain it.


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## Catahoula (Apr 30, 2012)

I have a 10x10 3 side covered shelter for two Boer goats. If I had REALLY thought about it and REALLY planned it out thoroughly, i would have make it BIGGER! I already wanted more goats and I know this 10x10 is too small.


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 30, 2012)

OK... Thank you!! We will talk about it and consider it. It is not really rainy here, but chilly in the winter (We are in Maine, BTW).


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 30, 2012)

Another question: We are looking into fencing and need to know what will keep the girls in best? Maybe something like this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/feedlot-panel-cattle-16-ft--3502077 ? OR electric? Some people have said netted electric wire, but I can't seem to find anything like that on TSC's website? Thoughts on other fencing options?

Thanks to all of you!!


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## SheepGirl (Apr 30, 2012)

If you were to do a large area in feedlot panels, that would get really expensive. Even a smaller area, like 32'x32', would cost you $176, not including the posts. If you were to go with feedlot panels, that would be a permanent area (T-posts aren't easy to get in/out of the ground unless you have a T-post pounder and extractor), not a temporary/moveable one. If you want a permanent area, I would recommend field fencing--that's what we have (albeit we have sheep fenced in). 

Temporary/electric netting - http://www.premier1supplies.com/fencing.php?species_id=2


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## autumnprairie (Apr 30, 2012)

yankee'n'moxie said:
			
		

> Another question: We are looking into fencing and need to know what will keep the girls in best? Maybe something like this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/feedlot-panel-cattle-16-ft--3502077 ? OR electric? Some people have said netted electric wire, but I can't seem to find anything like that on TSC's website? Thoughts on other fencing options?
> 
> Thanks to all of you!!


those panels will work fine and maybe eventually adding a hot wire to the top if need be.

here is a link to the electric net fence http://www.premier1supplies.com/fencing.php?species_id=2


I have 10 goats on 1/2 and acre  two pens but I used to have 2 20x30 pens for holding and let them graze daily or every other day or so 
I hope this helps


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## yankee'n'moxie (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you very much! Both of you! We'll see what we come up with. Right now we are just in the consideration/planning stages. I'll let you all know if I have more questions! LOL, and I am sure that I will!


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 1, 2012)

So, it turns out the the Nubians that I was looking at are pretty expensive. What about Alpines? Good dairy breed? There is one on Craigslist...


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

Yup alpines are a good dairy breed too.  How much milk were you looking to get? Just asking because you may want to consider Nigerian Dwarfs from milking lines. My 2 give a half gallon a day & you don't need to feed them as much as a standard size, you can use less expensive fencing & housing is simpler.


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

Also they are year round instead of seasonal breeders which makes it easier to have milk year round.


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 1, 2012)

OK... I will look into that! Do they give a half gallon combined? Or a half gallon each? Just curious because we were planning on alternating when they were in milk so that we wouldn't ever be with out it. But a 1/4 gallon isn't going to cut it. We are a family of 4 that LOVES milk! We are going through apprx 2 gallons every three days, depending on what we eat.


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

They give a 1/2 gallon combined. One gives a little more than a quart & one a little less. BUT I only milk once a day so one goat if you milked twice a day should give you a half gallon or so if it is from dairy lines. You would need to pull & bottle feed the babies & sell them as bottle babies if you did it that way. Or plan it to always have 2 goats in milk at the same time & you can leave the babies on during the day, separate at night, & milk in the mornings. Then when they wean at about 2 months switch to twice a day milkings to keep the milk strong. Nigerians have not always been bred for dairy so you would definitely want to find one with some milk behind it. What area are you in I may be able to pull up some breeders for you?


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 1, 2012)

I am in Maine... Probably not looking to spend more than $100 dollars a piece, and less would be wonderful!


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

A good dairy goat will generally run at least $300. The way to do it is to find one that is already grown & kidded already & is in milk. A lot of breeders will keep a doeling out of a doe and then  sell the doe to keep numbers lower. This way even though you are spending that kind of money on a goat you don't have all the start up cost of raising it. Let me look around your area & see if I can find anything for you. You could go for an unregistered & it might run a little less money but there is more of a chance of not getting as good of a milk goat. I'll look for both & see where the prices stand.


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 1, 2012)

Ok... Well, I don't think that they run that high around here, at least not normally. I have been surfing craigslist and it looks like most are hovering around 150.  The Nubians that I was looking at were $525 for 2 doelings and a buckling. Those were babies, though...


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

http://www.birchridgefarm.com/sale.html

check out this link. These guys are in Vermont but this is what you're looking for.


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

yankee'n'moxie said:
			
		

> Ok... Well, I don't think that they run that high around here, at least not normally. I have been surfing craigslist and it looks like most are hovering around 150.  The Nubians that I was looking at were $525 for 2 doelings and a buckling. Those were babies, though...


Possibly, but you want a breeder who knows what they are doing & will sell you disease free goats. Look at the link I sent you the top 2 does are good prospects. Right on the page it says they test their goats & they are free from the major goat diseases.


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 1, 2012)

OUCH! That hurts! Don't know if we can foot that right now...

Besides, we don't have time to go to VT! I hope that there is something around here for less. There is a couple of Nigerian Dwarfs on Vinal Haven (an Island off Maine). I think that we are going to check those out.


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

You may want to try to grab the one for $150 if you can. That price for a goat that is going to be in milk is really good. Keep in mind when you are purchasing a goat the cost the breeder is entailing. Even selling my doelings for $375 each I really don't make any money by the time I am done feeding, vaccinating, testing my herd, practicing cocci prevention. Also if you bought a baby from a disease free herd it would cost the same as that $150 and you would have to feed/care for it til it was big enough to breed, pay to have it bred (or purchase a buck) until you were able to milk. Just saying if you want a dairy goat from someone reputable that is disease free that is what it is going to cost & they are not ripping you off it is just fairly expensive to raise a goat to that size and get it into milk.


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 1, 2012)

The one for $150 in my area or in VT? As stated before, I am not planning on going to VT to get a goat....


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

http://www.stonesedgefarm.com/DWARFGOATS.html

Here's one in Maine. I'm trying to find more in your area. It's tough! The bigger breeders don't have anything or want $400 for a doeling. They have a few unregistered at this link for $200 a piece. Sometimes actually usually if you buy more than one they will discount it. Keep in mind too with the minis like I said you will spend a lot less on fencing, shelter & feed. Those are your biggest expenses with goats.


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

http://www.humbleacresfarm.com/forsale.htm

A nice registered milk goat for $350 here towards the bottom of the page. As you can see they are selling the doelings for more so it's always a better deal to go with the milker. If you can get her bred before she leaves she will have the babies in 5 months you will have milk and can sell the babies to recoup the cost.


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 1, 2012)

Yes, I can see what you are saying, but I think that I can get away with a cheaper goat. It may not be registered, but I don't mind because I am not showing, etc. I just want goat milk...   I will let you know if I find anything!


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

PS-you may even want to consider other states in New England. I have found where I am in Georgia sometimes depending where you are in the state, they are closer in Alabama or Tennessee than some are in Georgia. For example from northwestern maine to northeastern vermont the trip is only about an hour.


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## that's*satyrical (May 1, 2012)

http://maine.craigslist.org/grd/2987924815.html

These 2 may not be a bad deal. The only problem is you don't know they are disease free or even their exact age so it will be harder to know when they're ready to be bred. Since you don't have other goats the risk is not quite as great for you besides possible heartache if you found out later they had something. You also may have to spring for some testing before you expose them to someone elses buck for breeding. It's also a risk whether or not they will be good milkers since you have no clue about their pedigree & they also have no kidding history so you run a higher risk of them being prone to kidding difficulty.


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 1, 2012)

Yes, I did see those two. Thank you!! I am thinking that I may contact them, but I am checking Uncle Henry's as we speak.


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 2, 2012)

OK... So another question! I have read that they need  loose minerals. Where do I get this? At TSC, or my local feed store? For 2 goats, should/could I buy it in bulk (50lbs) and use it before it goes bad? Does it go bad?

Oh, and on the grain, what do you guys use?

Thanks for you guy's help!!


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## elevan (May 2, 2012)

yankee'n'moxie said:
			
		

> OK... So another question! I have read that they need  loose minerals. Where do I get this? At TSC, or my local feed store? For 2 goats, should/could I buy it in bulk (50lbs) and use it before it goes bad? Does it go bad?
> 
> Oh, and on the grain, what do you guys use?
> 
> Thanks for you guy's help!!


They don't really go bad.  If they get rained on then you need to spread the minerals out on a board to dry and then just mix with some fresh minerals and put them back out.

Loose minerals are definitely best.  TSC has small bags of Manna Pro.  You can get other brands from local feed stores.  I now use Sweetlix 16:8 and get it from my local Animal Station feed store.

Check out the feeding discussion link in my signature below to get an idea of what members feed.  I've switched to only feeding alfalfa pellets, hay and browse.


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## mabeane (May 2, 2012)

I'm a small breeder in Maine and found my first ND's on Uncle Henry's. Remember you get what you pay for. The next ones came from Uncle Henry's as well but I paid a lot more for them. I also am getting good milk production as well. (2 quarts a day per goat). I just sold a mama and a baby through Uncle Henry's for $250. My doe kids go for $150 each without papers.


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 2, 2012)

I do understand that, but I think that it is possible to get goats that will be good milkers for an affordable price. Like these: http://maine.craigslist.org/grd/2920762315.html Not Nigerian Dwarfs, but good milking lines (I talked to the lady and they ARE good lines), and they are cheaper because they aren't full blooded. 3/4 Alpine, 1/4 Oberhasli.

It would be cool to meet you sometime if we end up getting goats!! BTW, I am organizing a farm swap at the TSC in Lewiston on May 12th, 9AM to 2PM. If you are interested!


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## redtailgal (May 2, 2012)

They are adorable!

Just think......that could be YOUR barn one day!!!  

I with you on this. I got my does after being patient and shopping around until I found the right does (boer, no dairy) at the right price.  I ended up very please with two registered doeling that were easily within my price range.

and I'm going to get a couple more from the same place......at an even better price!

You go girl!


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## yankee'n'moxie (May 2, 2012)

Thank you, redtailgal! I am hoping that we will get this thing going!!


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