# When to send to slaughter



## Rose Ellen Farm (Apr 16, 2021)

It's been quite some time that I have raised cows for slaughter and have always had beef critters. At the moment I have 2 holstein steers and 2 Jersey bulls. Time and life got away from me, so the Jerseys are well past the elastic age and size.
I'm tempted to just send them now as to not to put $$ in to them for castrating. 
They are around 8 months of age now. My other half has it in his brain that the meat isn't good until 18 months of age. I have no idea where he is coming up with ideas like that. To me, the only reason not, is the small amount yielded at this time.
Thoughts? 
I don't want Jersey bulls on my property. They've been behaving well enough, yet don't want to push it!
One definitely looks like a mini as they are both the same age. They came to us 2nd hand so no idea where they originally came from. We've had them here for about 4 months.


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## Baymule (Apr 16, 2021)

They would make good hamburger or tenderized steaks, tenderized cutlets. I’m on your side, NO JERSEY BULLS. Me, I’d take them to slaughter too. Keep the soup bones. What is the Veternarian cost to castrate?
@farmerjan what say you?


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## Rose Ellen Farm (Apr 16, 2021)

Baymule said:


> They would make good hamburger or tenderized steaks, tenderized cutlets. I’m on your side, NO JERSEY BULLS. Me, I’d take them to slaughter too. Keep the soup bones. What is the Veternarian cost to castrate?
> @farmerjan what say you?


Between farm fee, tranquilizer, procedure about $250


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## farmerjan (Apr 16, 2021)

Does anyone in your area have beef cattle?  See if any have and use a  callicrate bander..... we routinely do 6-800 lb bulls with the bander... Use TETANUS TOXOID shot  when you band them.   Ask an area beef farmer if they have the Callicrate bander.  You get them in the chute, someone holds the tail up and the person banding them puts the band up on them and then it is ratcheted tight.  You give them a tetanus shot... 1 ml.... and then they will act like they hurt for about an hour ???? then go back to acting like normal.  We have done hundreds over the years.  I think there is also one that does the same thing that is called a "california" bander. 

Or a beef farmer that will come and just cut them there.  They will hurt and you have to be careful about not doing them leading up to or during the full moon or they will bleed profusely.  Cut just before the new moon.... when the sign is in the thighs going down into the knees.  I am not superstitious, but it has been proven over and over again.... blood flows are slower/easier when going from last quarter to the new moon.... We don't cut anything anymore, except for a couple of odd ones that we buy and that were banded and they did not get a nut and so they are a stag now... they are the ones that you beef.... they will sometimes get more "bullish" but normally will not be fertile due to the high heat temp of the body with the nut still up inside.  That is why they have sacks and they hang... for temp control for the production of viable sperm.  

I don't know what your market is there.  They will have very little actual edible meat  at 8 months.  You will pay more for the processing than they are worth to do.  Spend the money, get them cut, feed them out to a weight and size that will make killing them practical.  

Jersey bulls will get aggressive but they are honestly no worse than any other dairy breed bull.  It depends on how you raise them and how you respect them, and if there are any females near them to come into heat to cause them to start getting their hormones going. They tend to mature younger, and are quicker on their feet so they are perceived to be worse.  If yours are quiet and calm. and you are not going to castrate them, get rings in their noses and they will be much more controllable if they start to feel their "bullness".   But to me, castrating would be the only practical way to go.... $125 each and then feed for another year and then kill when they have meat on their bones.


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## farmerjan (Apr 16, 2021)

I normally kill my jersey steers at 27 +/-months...  in order to get the backbones and stuff back as per federal requirements on Mad cow disease..... Killing before  18-24 months is a waste of money for the amount of meat in return for the cost. 
The problem around here is there is at least A YEAR backlog for kill dates.... We have one in August, and Oct and 2 in Dec... and I have have July, Aug, and Sept booked for 2022.....
If you sold them I don't know what the sale barn there would do, but someone would buy them for $.50-.60 lb as bulls, cut them and then be able to sell them for $.80-1.00 lb as soon as they are healed, for osmeone to feed out as a beef. Too bad you aren't close as we could do them for you for about $25/30 each... bands, shot, and our time included.


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## CLSranch (Apr 16, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> The problem around here is there is at least A YEAR backlog for kill dates.... We have one in August, and Oct and 2 in Dec... and I have have July, Aug, and Sept booked for 2022.....


I'd call the butcher/processor and set a date ASAP then figure out what to do, in case it's a year long wait. With 4 to butcher it depends on how much your keeping or if your splitting them with someone.
  I'd get the bigger Jersey bull in as soon as I could. If you have time to band/cut do so. 4 beeves is a lot of meat (impossible at once and maybe your only option if you have a 1.5-2 year weight to get them in) and having 1 small and young isn't a problem if you have 3 more to get rid of before they're to old.
 A few weeks ago I took a bull in that I didn't want to mess with and a mini breed. $80 kill fee and 85cents a pound for any size animal.


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## Simpleterrier (Apr 16, 2021)

I'd listen to farmerjan. Beef them up and do it right if u don't want to beef them then butcher them your self and grind it all. Four feedout beef is alot of meat. If u don't have kill dates and don't have a working relationship with the butcher good luck. Like Jan said I have 2022 kill date already booked and there is a waiting list. If they call u u better be ready to drop off that day. 

Just wondering why you got four or why u don't want to finish them out was it a panic buy? I know in our area people have steers in all kinds of makeshift pens right know from panic buying. They are also taking way under weight beef in. 

Not finishing them out is more expensive than doing it right


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## Grant (Apr 16, 2021)

Use a California binder and castrate the bulls then finish them out.  Get date for the butcher like farmerjan said at about 24-27 months.  But get appts now!   Sell 3, keep 1, enjoy.  The California banner will run about $50 with bands.  But do it soon.


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## Baymule (Apr 17, 2021)

I found a couple that sells 2 year old Devon steers out of the pasture for $500 and they come with a slaughter date next March. They had one left. I reserved it, can pick it up in December and grain finish it. One of my meat customers is interested in buying beef from me. We are going to buy some meat from them next month after they get their meat back, to try the meat, I’ll give some to customer and see if they like it.  The steers dress out at 400-450 pounds. The couple even mentioned trading for pork since they don’t like raising pigs.


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## farmerjan (Apr 17, 2021)

Way to go @Baymule .......


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## Baymule (Apr 17, 2021)

I even priced the beef, hanging weight at $8-$10 per pound, they thought that was a good price. If I bought a youngster and kept it for a year, it’d be $10, but a slam dunk like this, I’ll be nice and maybe drop it to $8. LOL


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## Simpleterrier (Apr 17, 2021)

You get 8-10 a lb hanging weight ?  That's crazy


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## farmerjan (Apr 17, 2021)

Okay, my post was supposed to go on my journal... SORRY.... I will get it moved.  I guess I wasn't paying attention when I started to answer it.


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## Baymule (Apr 18, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Okay, my post was supposed to go on my journal... SORRY.... I will get it moved.  I guess I wasn't paying attention when I started to answer it.


Exhaustion sets in....... we don’t pay attention. LOL


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## misfitmorgan (Apr 18, 2021)

I would be on the band them boat with the california bands or find a local cow farmer to help you out. At 8 months old you are going to get at absolute most 120lbs from the larger bull if he weighs 400lbs which is a pretty big stretch for a jersey at 8 months more likely your getting 100lbs from the big one and maybe 80 or 90 from the little one. Sounds like a lot but in reality that would be mostly all hamburger and you would need to take every single cut the butcher could get out of the bull. so 190lbs at best from both bulls minus the feed into them already, the slaughter fee and the per lb cost to butcher, and the purchase price you are going to have some very expensive beef on your hands. Another thought some people really dont like beef that young, as the texture is different then what the consumer is used too. Take your purchase price + feed cost so far + slaughter fee + fee for butcher/processing divide by 190 and that is your price per pound. All that  doesnt even take into account the wear and tear on the people caring for them and the equipment used. Now to compare locally we pay $2.50lb for grass feed lean hamburger vacuum packed by the pound.
 If you banded and raised to 18 months you would get about 450lbs from both bulls which would be a much better price for the beef. I dont believe you would be happy with the results of butchering now even if you could get a date. Locally we are in the same boat atm in a very low population area of having to book out butcher dates months in advance.


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## CLSranch (Apr 18, 2021)

When I suggested the hurry aspect it is with the possibility of 18 months from now being the earliest opportunity to process and having 3 more to do. Mine was less because it was a new one that just opened up. Others in my area are waiting a year or more longer than they planned because of the delay.
  I thought about getting another date then buying another steer according to the date offered, so it wouldn't be to big or old.


misfitmorgan said:


> compare locally we pay $2.50lb for grass feed lean hamburger vacuum packed by the pound.


Here and where I was working it was that for Wal-Mart hamburger and saw some adds in the feed store for $4. a pd for the grass fed.


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## misfitmorgan (Apr 18, 2021)

Here even the cheapest burger at walmart which is 73/27 in a 10lb tube is $2.36/lb, and I dont touch that stuff. The 80/20 burger in a tray I buy when I need too is $4.38/lb, I take the grass fed beef at every opportunity, less for the grass fed part and more for the locally farm raised part.

General rule is 18 months for butcher, it is your cow and your choice, I still maintain you would be happier with the results if you banded now and waited. In the end it's your choice and your pocketbook, do what works for you.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 21, 2021)

Just took  3 wethers to my butcher - later than normal because had to cancel original date and reschedule my butcher date.  My butcher said if we weren't long term customers we wouldn't have gotten in for another 4 months.  Next time we have ram lambs, I will have to schedule a date 4 months in advance just in case.  

Kent also said that he is having people bringing in everything from as far away as 150 miles!  He also said that most of the people coming in to have steers and hogs butchered are not raisers but city buyers.  Apparently even some people from West LA (near Beverly Hills, Westwood, Santa Monica, etc. - high priced areas) are apparently just driving out of town, and buying steers our of a pasture.  They buy 800-900 lb. steers and the rancher delivers them in to Kent.  *Most of the buyers are liberals! * Then they stand there taking selfies with their steers as they are unloaded!  LOL  

When they go in the office to tell Kent how to cut their beef, they pull out a sheet of paper they downloaded from the internet of special cuts they want.   Kent says Saturdays are a madhouse with these wacky libs wanting all these strange cuts. He said that he takes the list from them and tears it up. Then he asks the rancher who has delivered the steers what the weight is. Kent figures the slaughter weight out at .56% of the total weight and tells the customers that that is the hanging weight. THEN he gives them the approximate poundage yield. They are shocked and they say "but that's a huge steer" (800-900 lbs.) and he has to tell them "No that is a _small_ steer."  

He says he would get a bigger laugh out of it if they weren't so stupid and time wasting. We were there for 20 minutes - 10 minutes to off load the 3 wethers and 10 minutes to give him the information about my 2 buyers and my cutting instructions.  He said these people that are buying animals and bringing them in to be butchered take almost an hour each to deal with in explaining the cuts - not counting the offloading time that the rancher handles - Oh yes! and the selfies!   

Copied this post to put in my Ridgetop  because it is so amusing.  Here I thought it was livestock people like us bringing in their animals but it appears that the crazy liberals are the ones taking our butchering appointments!!!  They are apparently not all vegetarians - or maybe just closet carnivores!


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## misfitmorgan (Apr 22, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> Just took  3 wethers to my butcher - later than normal because had to cancel original date and reschedule my butcher date.  My butcher said if we weren't long term customers we wouldn't have gotten in for another 4 months.  Next time we have ram lambs, I will have to schedule a date 4 months in advance just in case.
> 
> Kent also said that he is having people bringing in everything from as far away as 150 miles!  He also said that most of the people coming in to have steers and hogs butchered are not raisers but city buyers.  Apparently even some people from West LA (near Beverly Hills, Westwood, Santa Monica, etc. - high priced areas) are apparently just driving out of town, and buying steers our of a pasture.  They buy 800-900 lb. steers and the rancher delivers them in to Kent.  *Most of the buyers are liberals! * Then they stand there taking selfies with their steers as they are unloaded! LOL
> 
> ...



Prices here for sheep and goats at auctions have gone insane and have been high(really good for seller) for months now. ATM local market report is $200-400 for goats and $260-310 for lambs/sheep. I know canada sheep farmers are seeing something very similar. I am not sure if the lamb shortage is due to the whole china thing(as they do tons of processing for aussie lamb which gets shipped to the US) or if it is the slow cargo/shipping issue or people buying more animals from the farmer or maybe all of those together. I'm just happy farmers are making the money they deserver to be making all the time.

I dont like paying a ton of money for store bought meat but i would much rather directly pay a farmer a fair price. I know store meat means the store is making most of the profit not the farmer.


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## Baymule (Apr 22, 2021)

Oh my goodness! How funny! Wait until these city idiots without a clue how the meat they buy at the store, where no animals have been harmed, is actually raised and they
 actually BITE into their bought out of the pasture meat! Tough, chewy, lean meat.   Small steers at that, without the full maturity that gives to the fat marbling throughout, adding flavor and tenderness. They don't even take into account how much the pile of guts, the head, the hide, the bones will weigh. I'm sure none of them have instructions on how to cut and wrap intestines for their consumption. Pretty sure none of them want all the bones or the hide. haha, they could ask for the hooves and boil them to make their own jello! What a bunch of morons. Glad the ranchers are cashing in.


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## Baymule (Apr 22, 2021)

@Rose Ellen Farm we sure have veered away from your original post. Sometimes threads take on a life of their own and wander around. I sure hope you don't mind!


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## caprines.n.me (Apr 22, 2021)

I see a lot of good information here.  I also see a lot of just plain old meanness.  I'm not sure why it is necessary (and it's also against the rules here) to name call and put down people who don't live their life the way people here do.  The "city idiots" and "liberals" have a right to try and take care of their families also.  They may have been caught unaware when Covid hit and have finally figured out that their food doesn't come from the grocery store.  I'm glad for it.  People who are willing to try to help themselves shouldn't be put down for it.  They are doing the farmers a favor by buying their 800 - 900lb steers.  Folks here have butchered at the same weight and they weren't called out for it.  Perhaps they had extenuating circumstances and had to butcher when the time was right for them. 

Would it be possible to state your feelings without so much anger, negativity, and name-calling?  I read more than I speak here...mama always said if you can't say something nice to not say anything at all.  I'm trying to be nice here.   I would hope more folks would do the same.


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## farmerjan (Apr 22, 2021)

@caprines.n.me  I am going to answer your post and probably get called out for this.  But, I have had to constantly deal with the "CITY IDIOTS AND LIBERALS"  that you are defending. 

They are NOT doing the farmer a FAVOR by buying the 8-900 lb steers.   That is BULL SH!T.  Don't you dare think that we need your "favors".   We need some respect for what we do, and not just when these people feel threatened.  Or when they want to take selfies with "their " steer .....and we have to stand around and WASTE our time while they do all this......

We farm and if a farmer sells his 8-9 wts for giveaway prices, then he needs to think about what he is doing.  This is not just a way of life, it is a business.  You have to sit and think about what you are doing, and figure out a way to make it work for you.  We often buy the 8-9 wts and can make a bit on them just by taking care of the details.  We aren't getting rich.  That is in part due to the people in this country that think food should be cheap.  Pay 500-1,000 for a "stupid smart phone" ,  and then spend half your day on it...while even subjecting yourself to harmful radiation and such from it....But to pay 500-1,000 for a half a beef that will feed you for a few months.....OMG.... they don't stop to think that good food is what you should be paying good money for... No, get food for as cheap as you can because there is so much of it. 
In the case of dairy farming, we are RESTRICTED by the government pricing to ship conventional milk.  Many farmers are not good at marketing.  It sucks that they get caught in the treadmill.... and I have worked with them for over 30 years as a tester.  And there are state regs on top of it to make it difficult to offer milk in other ways.  Sure, farm shares, milk shares, things like that.  But the LIABILITY is huge and don't think that all these "city idiots and liberals" won't SUE your butt off for whatever reason they can come up with.  Have a food recall in the conventional food chain and it is taken with a grain of salt when someone gets sick.... get sick from a glass of raw milk and the farmer loses his farm, everything.... 

Yes, these city people,  have a right to take care of their families.  Some that got caught in the covid mess are looking at this in a better way.  BUT..... do some REAL research before you just go "buy a 8-9 wt steer out of the field".... Going to a butcher shop with a  list of cuts that you want, with no real knowledge of where they come from is just plain ignorant.  And then to not even understand that there is ABOUT a 50% yield from a carcass, is showing that they have not tried to do any research for their food, but they will research buying a new vehicle or a new computer or anything like that.... to not understand that the LIVE animal is not all meat with a few pounds of guts and skin is just beyond dumb. 
Ask the farmer some basic questions before you dive into this head first.  Use some COMMON SENSE, which most seem to not have.  And if you try to explain things, they look at you, make the comment that they are sure you mean well trying to explain things to them..... and act like they KNOW MORE THAN YOU..... I for one am DA#$@D  sick and tired of it.  I am not the HAYSEED farmer with a pitchfork that cannot do anything else because I am too dumb.  I have been to college , I spend days every year at seminars trying to learn more, I spend HOURS:   in the field trying to do a better job of planting crops and making hay, trying to breed better animals, doing what needs to be done to try to give them the best care I am capable of.... I don't do this job because I have to, I do it because I love what I do.  I don't ask for a million dollars, I want to just make a living and be respected for what I do.  

I sold a beef, a jersey.  I explained that the cost was on hanging weight......$5.00 lb... included killing, vacuum packed, frozen,  delivered to his house.  His daughter had eaten some of it, I worked with her.  I offered for them to take home a steak and some ground beef to try.....He said he understood all that, I gave him some choices on types of steaks and then he said he wanted to talk to the butcher.... I said fine, he could make his own arrangements.  My local butcher spent over 3 hours with him, 2 different trips,  and finally they got it agreed on what he could get.  Jersey hung at nearly 60% as they have smaller finer bones.... I picked it up and delivered the meat. 
He took and weighed EVERY SINGLE package and told me that there wasn't all the meat there, that the USDA says that you should get XX amount of hanging weight from an animal that weighs XX amount.... and what he got made it cost almost $9.00 a lb overall average.  I tried to explain that the USDA goes by an average yield of a BEEF animal....he was sure he was getting screwed over.   Butcher tried to explain it to him as I found out later he went back to the butcher and wanted to talk about it because I was not being straight with him.   They ate at least 2-3 steaks, maybe some of the ground beef... before calling me to complain.  I said I will be over to pick up the meat that afternoon, took back the total purchase cost.... and brought it home & put in my freezer.   I would have flattened him if I had seen him that afternoon.   My butcher said something to me the next beef we took in... and I apologized to him for this idiot;  after finding out all this other stuff....

Not the first time we have gotten burned with STUPID IDIOTS.  Was told once that I was just a dumb farmer that didn't understand the new way chefs had meat cut and how to prepare it.... and that I didn't understand about the proper way to AGE a piece of meat for it to be more palatable..... Aging is actually just allowing the meat to break down.... the first stages of ROTTING..... if you want to really get graphic.  DON'T PATRONIZE ME.    

Butchers are very good about giving their customers, especially new ones, time to try to explain about different cuts of meat.  Where they come from, the different choices.  You can't get all T-bones  and all filets and NY strip steaks.... they come from the same place.  You can get some of each... each half can get cut differently.... You don't get all steaks, there are parts suited for different cuts for different cooking methods..... People don't want all that hamburger.... but there are some cuts that are not good for anything else pretty much.  There is a fair amount of trim... all goes into hamburger..... BUT these butchers are also busy.... more so now than ever with the backlogs.... and all the time they spend talking they are not cutting.   Do these people understand that these butchers also are people who do have a life away from the shop.... that they spend 6-8-10 hours a day on their feet, in cool rooms, cutting meat,  when they get done for the day, they then deal with phone calls and things like that.  You don't just walk away from your job like those people that work in offices and such.  It is not just 8-5....and they don't get paid by the hour.  They do the job for a set amount, and it is with the knowledge that the longer they spend with each customer, the longer it takes, the less they make per hour, the less they get accomplished that day. 
I don't question what my butcher charges.  I think it is alot of money but I also realize he has alot of hours in what he produces out of my animal, and the hidden costs to get it there.  It is a skill I don't have, and time I am not able to put into it.  He is worth his costs. 

If you want to preach... go preach to the "stupid idiots and liberals" that are unwilling to humble themselves to realize that they are out of their element, and be willing to really LISTEN and LEARN ...... and do some real research and homework to understand  about their food instead of just their electronics...and who tell people what they want instead of asking what can be done, that they have had this or that cut and that they would like to have something like that.  

Yes, I am opinionated.... but I am old enough now that I have run the gamut with so many that my tolerance level keeps shrinking.... I love to have someone come to me and say... hey, I don't understand this, show me what this means, show me how to grow this, teach me how to do this..... I will spend time and energy to do it... but I don't suffer know it all fools anymore.

Most of us are pretty outspoken here, and most of us have had years to suffer through all the stupidity and we just don't want to do it anymore.  And we get tired of trying to help people with our years of experience and then get put down and looked at like we are stupid.... Everyone that has been there, done that, is also willing to ask others of their experiences and we can learn from others.... but relating some of the things that happen regularly anymore is no reason to judge those of us that relate these things or our reactions to it.


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## misfitmorgan (Apr 22, 2021)

As farmer Jan put it in the blunt words she is known and loved for "city idiots" and "liberals" is not a term we use for anyone from the city or any liberal. It's a term we use for the type of people she and a few others have described in thie forum over the years. It is not people wanting or willing to learn or just improve the food they are giving to their families. These are the people who think they know better then you, no matter your experience.....from the farmer to the butcher. They do be little other people and act as if they know everything and ignore your advice or your experience, some even act like you are trying to rip them off, or get the better of them.
We are all for helping people learn and better themselves and their families food just not at the cost of everyone elses time, money, and feelings to do it. If someone legitimately wants to learn something this forum is one of the places they can come to do it and we are happy to help them. It is not about being mean when discussing the city idiots or liberals it is about being sick of seeing it and dealing with it, when people think they know everything and think food should be even cheaper then it already is.
We dont deal in beef yet but we do deal in pork and have for years. We have had many people try to undercut our prices that are already stupidly low. People who come buy a feeder pig(around 8 weeks old) thinking they can take it to the butcher in a month and get 100lbs of pounds of meat. We have had people buy our animals and not listen to the instructions on what feed and how to feed them and had the animals end up very sick or dead. Do these people think they did something wrong, no they spread rumors about our stock being junk even though years have gone into their breeding and management. A 100 people that are happy with their meat/animal will tell a few people each,  a couple people whose animal died because they ignored your advice or care instructions will tell everyone they know or come across who asks about pork(beef, goat, etc) about how bad your farm is and your livestock.
We don't put up with city idiots well and we do have good reasons for it. As I said not all people who live in a city are city idiots and not all liberals are "liberals" we are talking about specific people in those groups not the general group of people. It's a similar concept to the sheeple term, is everyone a sheeple...no but those that are often want to keep their head in the sand and not see what is going on around them.


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## caprines.n.me (Apr 22, 2021)

I'm sorry that you seem to have missed the point of my post.  My post was simply about being kind in our postings.  I'm sorry you were offended by my request.  

Perhaps I misspoke about doing a farmer a "favor."  However, these folks couldn't buy an 8-900 lb steer if said steer were not offered for sale by the farmer.  The farmer has a right to accept or refuse the buyer's money.  When I sell an advertised animal, I am always grateful.  I would suspect that most farmers also feel grateful when they sell an animal that they wanted to sell.  

I have spent most of my life trying to convince folks to simply be kind.  I have lived in countries where there was no opportunity for people to pick between a liberal or conservative party.  You have a right to your opinion as does everyone else.


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## misfitmorgan (Apr 22, 2021)

caprines.n.me said:


> I'm sorry that you seem to have missed the point of my post.  My post was simply about being kind in our postings.  I'm sorry you were offended by my request.
> 
> Perhaps I misspoke about doing a farmer a "favor."  However, these folks couldn't buy an 8-900 lb steer if said steer were not offered for sale by the farmer.  The farmer has a right to accept or refuse the buyer's money.  When I sell an advertised animal, I am always grateful.  I would suspect that most farmers also feel grateful when they sell an animal that they wanted to sell.
> 
> I have spent most of my life trying to convince folks to simply be kind.  I have lived in countries where there was no opportunity for people to pick between a liberal or conservative party.  You have a right to your opinion as does everyone else.


Being kind is great, this forum is built on the kindness, compassion and caring of the long time and new members of it. The city idiots and "liberals" we speak about are not kind to us, they do not care about us or the time we take to do what we do. These people are selfish, know it all and out to get the best for themselves/families no matter who they have to screw over to get it. There is no amount of kind or niceness that changes them.
Please read my post above before replying....as this is not all city dwellers or liberals, which I explained.


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## caprines.n.me (Apr 22, 2021)

Again, my point is being missed.  It was simply about the tone of the posts.  So much negativity and name-calling as to present the forum in a negative light.  Too many folks balancing huge chips on their shoulder and blaming others.  (Oh my - even an old minister can be snarky.  But, that's why I retired.)  I have seen evil of which I could never describe adequately for anyone to understand the evil that lurks in mankind.  That is why I shrink from it and try to convince others to simply practice kindness.

I think perhaps I should retire from this forum, as others have before me, for the same reasons. Blessings to you all.


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## Larsen Poultry Ranch (Apr 22, 2021)

caprines.n.me said:


> Again, my point is being missed.  It was simply about the tone of the posts.  So much negativity and name-calling as to present the forum in a negative light.  Too many folks balancing huge chips on their shoulder and blaming others.  (Oh my - even an old minister can be snarky.  But, that's why I retired.)  I have seen evil of which I could never describe adequately for anyone to understand the evil that lurks in mankind.  That is why I shrink from it and try to convince others to simply practice kindness.
> 
> I think perhaps I should retire from this forum, as others have before me, for the same reasons. Blessings to you all.


I kinda feel like you are being a troll. You are misreading and misrepresenting the prior posts, possibly on purpose, in order to get a rise out of members. I think perhaps you might need to take your own advice. We don't mind opinions, we certainly have strong ones of our own, but trolling others is out of line.


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## farmerjan (Apr 22, 2021)

Larsen Poultry Ranch said:


> I kinda feel like you are being a troll. You are misreading and misrepresenting the prior posts, possibly on purpose, in order to get a rise out of members. I think perhaps you might need to take your own advice. We don't mind opinions, we certainly have strong ones of our own, but trolling others is out of line.


Thank you.


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## Jesusfreak101 (Apr 22, 2021)

I agree being kind is the best way. Saying some is a idiot isnt the best way but if some one is ingorent in something and refuses the council of those wiser then them selfs even God calls them fools. As we would be if we did the same when we need council in areas those who live in citys are wiser about. Their is no true fool or idiot then those who refuse council. That is what i would say the others are getting at. I have met many people and heard many discussion  on matters and there always is one who refuses to learn. People ask me about animals because i have taken the time to learn. I ask others i know for help in areas that i have little experience with or need help with. Wisdom is in asking if someone refuses to ask question to those who are knowledgeable then are they not fools and therefor idiot to stubborn  to leave their own pride and ignorance  behind. We all have things to offer and those who demean others for not  doing the same work are fools because ever task has its challenges and those  who face them have the knowledge and the wisdom to guide  others in how to face them.  There an old saying no question  is a stupid question  the only thing that is stupid is not seeking out wisdom. One of the many thibgs God has talked about in the Bible and  has placed in proverbs for us to learn and read and to seek out. Lets remember to seek wisdom and help others to seek it. Its better to ask then be a fool abd calling a fool a fool is just the ugly truth my children are fools but have enough wisdom to ask question even when its annoying for me to constantly answer.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 22, 2021)

Learning is always good.  You never know everything and there is always something more to learn.  While I knew that dress out is about 50% on everything except hogs, I certainly didn't know that the head and hide of a 1600 lb. steer could weigh as much as 400 lbs!  


On the other hand, learning the yield in lbs. of meat before buying an animal on the hoof might be a necessary thing to do.  

One year the neighbor who buys lambs from me said that my price of $200 for a finished 120 lb. lamb was too high and the butcher fee was too high.  He wanted me t ask Kent t lower his price and me to lower mine.  

I don't have any pasture on my 6 acres, and only forage when we have a wet winter here in southern California, so all my sheep are raised on alfalfa and some grain.  At the time he complained, I was rising Dorsets and creep feeding on hay and grain.

I went back through my costs of feed and figured what it cost for the time the lamb was eating - not during pregnancy, just the 5 months it took to get the Dorset lamb to 120 lbs.  I broke down y costs for him and he was getting the lamb for about $.05.10/lb. after cost of feeding.  I told him that he didn't need to buy my lambs since we were happy to eat them all ourselves.  He did not complain after that, and has bought one or 2 per year ever since.  

Most people don't know what it costs to turn out a good meat animal, and don't believe you when you tell them. This is because they wouldn't do all that work for what you make on the animals.  Most of them can't understand why *you* do it.


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## Baymule (Apr 22, 2021)

@farmerjan


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## Mike CHS (Apr 22, 2021)

This was an interesting thread and I'm pleased that everyone responded the way the did


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## Nifty (Apr 25, 2021)

We received a few reports on multiple posts in this thread that were political. There's some great info and discussion mixed with stuff that shouldn't have been posted... so after some discussion, it's been decided to leave the posts, but lock the thread as a reminder to keep political comments off of our forum. 

We wish there was a way to allow for all discussions all the time, but every time we feel we can relax the rules, we get flooded with reports... which creates a bunch of drama in the community and work for our team.

So, we weigh the pros and cons of allowing these discussions... and it's clear that the cons outweigh the pros.

Again, we'd LOVE to see all discussions and zero drama or reports, but that's clearly not possible with some topics, like politics.

Thanks to all those that keep the rules and avoid replying to topics / posts they take issue with.


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