# No CAE testing - What should I do?



## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm looking at getting a Boer/Nubian doeling or two and I've got a source who breeds for the open market, they have approx. 200 goats onsite and usually have kids to sell. They're obviously not a "breeder" they're more of a farm operation that sells off the kids they don't need. 

ANYWAY most commercial size herds here don't test for CAE (most herds don't test for it PERIOD actually, I must be the only person who had a heart attack and called the vet in to test lol). Obviously at $140.00 for 2 goats, testing 200 would put most people in the poor house. 

I really want a couple does from this lady, and they're always priced to sell since goats are actually pretty difficult to get rid of out here, not that anyone really breeds them anyway. They're just not that popular. 

I got lucky with my two Pygmy girls, both negative, and this lady does keep a closed herd and obviously I'd go look at them and she has said they've had no "outbreaks" of CAE at all. Should I go for it? Its not like we have a bustling goat market here, and since all you can ever get is registered usually, most purebred doelings tend to cost a small fortune, good bloodlines or not (we're talking $400-$600 for a nubian doeling). 

Sigh!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 1, 2010)

I have another questions sort of in that vein: Does anyone have a good online reference showing how to draw blood?  I'm getting a lot more comfortable with giving injections and I'd really rather do that sort of thing myself but have NO prior experience.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

I think CM posted one when I was asking about it a while ago... 

He'll chime in eventually LOL. 

We're not "allowed" to draw blood and send it in ourselves here and BioTracking doesn't service Canada. Hence why it's so expensive for owners, and why most goats go untested. Unless of course they're owned by me, and I'm insane and more than willing to spend more than $100 to get my TWO goats tested, yes... $140 for TWO goats.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 1, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> I think CM posted one when I was asking about it a while ago...
> 
> He'll chime in eventually LOL.


Wasn't me.  I think it might have been ksal, but I'm not sure.

I've never drawn blood before.  Well, I mean, I've drawn plenty of blood -- mine and theirs alike, probably in nearly equal volume -- in the process of trimming hooves and whatnot, but I've never actually drawn blood on purpose.

It's something I will do, eventually...but I'm weird about it yet.  

A buddy of mine...a guy with 20+ years experience in goats...has never disbudded a goat for the same reason that I've never drawn blood -- he's too chicken.

He'll jab one in the neck to draw blood or inject something IV without thinking twice, but disbudding?  Forget it.  He won't do it.

Everybody has their own little bugaboos, I guess.  



			
				lupinfarm said:
			
		

> We're not "allowed" to draw blood and send it in ourselves here and BioTracking doesn't service Canada. Hence why it's so expensive for owners, and why most goats go untested. Unless of course they're owned by me, and I'm insane and more than willing to spend more than $100 to get my TWO goats tested, yes... $140 for TWO goats.


Well..how about this..

You know your two girls are negative, so why not have them bred, freeze a bunch of some colostrum and milk, and then go catch a few Boer babies while they're still wet.  Bottlefeed the babies from the clean colostrum and milk, and poof -- you know they're negative by virtue of the money you've already spent to have your two girls tested.


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## ksalvagno (Mar 1, 2010)

No, wasn't me. I don't draw my own blood. One of those things I just don't have the guts to do yet. While I know the bleeding always eventually stops, I just don't want it to stop when there is no blood left. 

I do all my own shots and everything, just won't draw blood. Too scary for me to deal the with the jugular vein.

I know on selfsufficient.com there is a thread on drawing blood on goats by Freemotion. She even put out a utube video on it.

Lupin, I don't know what to tell you other than go with your gut. Sometimes we just have to take those chances and sometimes we know better not to.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

LOL you make it sound so easy Cm  Almost no one bottlefeeds! There was someone advertising 2 pygmy babies online for free I can only assume to bottlefeed, but they haven't gotten back to me so I guess they must be gone!

They're Boer/Nubian x doelings, I might just take the risk and get a doeling from this lady. I'll get her tested almost as soon as she gets home, and we'll go from there. I took a chance on Cissy and Mione and they turned up negative. I'm more than willing to wait to breed Cissy and Mione until next year because I'll have bought a buck of my own by then (everyone pretty much keeps a closed herd and no one likes to...offer... up their bucks).


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## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> No, wasn't me. I don't draw my own blood. One of those things I just don't have the guts to do yet. While I know the bleeding always eventually stops, I just don't want it to stop when there is no blood left.
> 
> I do all my own shots and everything, just won't draw blood. Too scary for me to deal the with the jugular vein.
> 
> ...


Yeah I think it might have been Free lol. I can't remember for the life of me. But I know someone posted something about drawing blood, a link to a website where a young girl did it. 

We had the opposite issue, we couldn't get Mione TO bleed. The vet eventually got it, but we had to hold her up in the air lol. Cissy bled everytime she Baaa lol so hers went real fast since she's quite talkative.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 1, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> ksalvagno said:
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I've seen the site with the kid drawing blood before..

Here it is.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

There we are! Thats the one I was talkin' bout. It looks pretty straightforward, but I felt so bad for my girlies I don't think I could ever do it myself lol. 

Now they look silly because they still have a short patch of hair where the vet shaved away their enormous woolly mammoth coats for taking blood.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 1, 2010)

It is very easy to draw blood, and I think every goat owner should practice and know how to do it!  The Biotracking site also has a link to a how-to with an 11 yr old girl drawing blood.  

I have a blog post about it, but I didn't get too in depth because my photographer was my 6 yr old stepson. 

Lupin- Really stinks that Biotracking doesn't service Canada.  It's $4 plus shipping to get them to test it.  Can you draw yourself and take it to the vet to save money?

ETA the link Biotracking has is the same one CM posted.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

You cannot draw it yourself as far as I know because the lab (yes, only one... and its on the otherside of the country) won't take it if it doesn't come from a vet. The cost of having the blood drawn is expensive but its not nearly as expensive as the lab fees, shipping, etc.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 1, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> You cannot draw it yourself as far as I know because the lab (yes, only one... and its on the otherside of the country) won't take it if it doesn't come from a vet. The cost of having the blood drawn is expensive but its not nearly as expensive as the lab fees, shipping, etc.


My goodness. Sorry, I didn't realize you weren't *allowed* to take it!   :/    Honestly, I just probably wouldn't worry about it.  What do most people up there do?


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## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

lol most people don't even test! 

I spoke to a registered nubian breeder (shes a little less expensive than most but she retains almost all her kids so good luck getting any kids from her) and she doesn't test. 

Most people call themselves CAE/CL free because they have a closed herd. Its just too expensive for people to test for. Most people don't even vaccinate! I'm pretty sure this lady vaccinates and she disbuds as well. 

We don't really have a booming goat population though, goats and sheep are just not that popular here.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 1, 2010)

What are you going to be doing with the kids?  Honestly, and this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't worry about testing.  I'd go see the herd, and see how her goats look.  If they obviously are arthritic and have swollen knees, I'd probably look elsewhere.  If you look at her goats and they all look good, she has older does that don't look swollen, and she doesn't have any udder issues (no milk, hard udders,etc), I'd buy her goats.  

After knowing that my doe is positive, I probably will go ahead and test any does I get from now on (especially since testing for us is easy with Biotracking), but I'm not going to get rid of my doe just because she's positive.  I'll bottle any doe kids she has, and let her raise any bucklings since they'll most likely be freezer meat anyways.  

IMO, it's NOT worth $140 per goat to have it tested for a disease which in many cases is not a big deal at all.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

lol its $140 for 2 goats, but thats because they share a shipping fee. 

ANYHOW, She did say she hadn't had any problems with arthritis or anything like that, but I will be going to see the kids ahead of time. I'm probably just picking up one doeling right now, and in a years time we'll breed her to a nubian buck (super easy to come by if you look in the right places lol) and milk her. We don't need tons of milk, so we're not concerned with the hugest quantity ever. I do intend on breeding Cissy and Mione one day and milking them too, but I want to have a larger doe as well so my dad can get in on the goat stuff, he's a big guy and he could never milk the mini's lol. 

Some day far into the future I may go the registered route and breed registered goats, but for now our unregistered girls are fine lol. We're just getting started and set up and I do have a large barn that needs renovating and refitting plus my goatie house next to our house. I'll probably bottle feed the resulting kids.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 1, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> We don't really have a booming goat population though, goats and sheep are just not that popular here.


That's not necessarily a bad thing..

Firstly, you're on the ground floor...and they will catch on.  Second, less goats = higher prices...you know that much already.  Third, a dearth of goats probably means a dearth of goat diseases, anthelmintic resistant parasites, etc.  

The flipside of where you're at is basically where I'm at...goats are EVERYWHERE around here.  That means they're cheap...like, I could probably buy as many mixed-breed mutts in various states of health for $40 a piece as I wanted, right this minute.  I don't want any, though, because of the last part...disease.  Lots of goats means lots of goat disease.  

Meat goat people around here scarcely know what CAE is, and don't care to..  I personally consider CL to be basically endemic to the area at this point, too.  Soremouth...it's everywhere.  If you swap around -- even just buying in bucks and whatnot -- or you cavort with other goat people and visit other farms..shows..sales..I firmly believe you will have nasty goat diseases on your property at some point or another.

Not great.  :/


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 1, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> lol its $140 for 2 goats, but thats because they share a shipping fee.


Sawry. My readin' skills ain't nun good today.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 1, 2010)

For those of you who draw your own blood and use biotracking- did you order the bioPRYN kit to collect CAE test samples?  I don't see any other way of ordering the vacuum tubes if you aren't a vet.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 1, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> lupinfarm said:
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Yuh huh, I don't tend to go to other farms lol. We have to be careful for the puppies here and visitors aren't allowed to touch the goats. People know what CAE and CL are here but no one tests for anything because its just too expensive. 

It took me ages to find just the breeders I found! I can't quite remember, but I think with this particular farm she breeds her Boer buck to Nubian does and sells most of the babies that are less nubian in looks. So I think its less about meat and more about milk production with her. 

Within 20km of me there is probably 2 farms with goats (I know for sure there is one a couple roads over with boers, because I covet their beautiful century barn lol) and 3 with sheep. We're more of a sheep area than a goat area, you're more likely to find sheep farms than goat farms. It looks a lot like wales here  so we have quite a few sheep farms. None sell though and all believe in the "no intervention" method where all their sheep are completely wild nutjobs.

The population of livestock is reflected in what our feed mills carry, we have a lot of horse feeds available to us, lots of cattle stuff, and most places carry a sheep ration. The only place that carries a feed labeled for goats is TSC and they only have a sweet-feed type ration. Not that I'm complaining, lol, and I would travel across Ontario if I could get a nice pelleted feed but we don't have a big enough population to warrant it unfortunately.


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 1, 2010)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> For those of you who draw your own blood and use biotracking- did you order the bioPRYN kit to collect CAE test samples?  I don't see any other way of ordering the vacuum tubes if you aren't a vet.


Nope, I just called up my vet and asked to buy the plain red top tubes. They sold me 5 for about $1.50.  

I've seen tubes through farm supply catalogs though.  I didn't order online because I didn't need a ton of them.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 3, 2010)

Right so update...

I got in touch with the lady, I'm going to go up to her place on March Break and look at her goats, and shes going to put us on a waiting list for next season. 

I'm willing to take the risk


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