# The Grand Experiment



## Hopalong Causually (Apr 3, 2018)

I have a three year old doe that has kindled, in the last four breedings, litters of two, one, three, and none.  I kept one of her offspring does and she is now a year old.  The question to be answered is this:  Is there a genetic propensity for the production of small litters?  This is not desirable in meat rabbit breeds, for sure.  To test the theory, I bred this one-year-old doe back to her sire in order to eliminate the buck as the possible cause of small litters.  He has produced prodigious litters with other does.  Well, the results are in with this one-year-old doe kindling last night.  Taking full consideration of the fact that this is her first litter and that this is only ONE test sample, she failed to dispel the theory that the production of small litters COULD be a genetic trait.  She had only three.  One was dropped outside the box, one was found inside the nestbox but still encased in the amniotic sack, and the third one was found on the wire half eaten.  Needless to say, all were dead.  I'm not questioning her lack of proper care for the kits as this is her first litter, but the fact that she only kindled three gives little reason to keep her as a breeder.


----------



## promiseacres (Apr 3, 2018)

I personally would try again...  how old is the sire? He could be having issues too


----------



## Tale of Tails Rabbitry (Apr 3, 2018)

Did she look red in the genital area before you bred her? Did you breed her a second time within an hour or so of first?

I really never had to do all this with my NZWs but I have learned I do with my oldest Silver Fox doe, who was always difficult to breed. I have never seen her lift for a buck within two minutes as she did this last breeding. I had placed her in a neighboring cage to him two days before I plan to breed them and she was red and ready apparently.


----------



## Hopalong Causually (Apr 3, 2018)

The sire is three years old but he and another doe just produced a litter of nine.  He appears to be fine.  I might give her ONE more try.  With the cost of feed and my limited cage space, her stock is dropping fast.


----------



## Hopalong Causually (Apr 3, 2018)

The actual breeding followed the book:  four fall-offs in about an hour, the first occurring within 20 seconds of introducing them.


----------



## Bunnylady (Apr 3, 2018)

Genetics is just one of many factors that can influence litter size; plus you can't overlook the fact that only half of her genes came from her mother. By re-breeding her right after the lost litter, you should be able to catch her at a hormonal high point. If there is a better way to find out just what she's capable of producing, I don't know what it is - good luck!


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 3, 2018)

As someone that knows very little about rabbits...can you flush them?? I know some people feed goats, sheep, and pigs really well for about two weeks right before breeding. The theory is that if their systems think there is a surplus of available food then number of offspring will be increased as its considered a year of abundance. Just a thought...I don’t even know what you would feed a rabbit to flush but in the ruminants mentioned, high quality feed and hay would be preferred with pasture access. For pigs, just increasing the feed intake with a high quality feed.


----------



## Bunnylady (Apr 3, 2018)

Wehner Homestead said:


> As someone that knows very little about rabbits...can you flush them?? I know some people feed goats, sheep, and pigs really well for about two weeks right before breeding. The theory is that if their systems think there is a surplus of available food then number of offspring will be increased as its considered a year of abundance. Just a thought...I don’t even know what you would feed a rabbit to flush but in the ruminants mentioned, high quality feed and hay would be preferred with pasture access. For pigs, just increasing the feed intake with a high quality feed.



Actually, the recommendation with rabbits usually goes in the opposite direction. If a rabbit doe is too fat, her hormones get screwed up, and she may not be ripening as many eggs or be as likely to accept the buck. Rabbits are intended by nature to be really lean animals, so if a doe seems reluctant to breed, putting her on a diet is often one of the first suggestions you get (assuming she isn't noticeably skinny). Since this particular doe is a whole  year old and this was her first litter, most rabbit breeders would think the chances that she might be a bit on the too plump side are greater than those of her being in low condition.


----------



## Wehner Homestead (Apr 3, 2018)

Bunnylady said:


> Actually, the recommendation with rabbits usually goes in the opposite direction. If a rabbit doe is too fat, her hormones get screwed up, and she may not be ripening as many eggs or be as likely to accept the buck. Rabbits are intended by nature to be really lean animals, so if a doe seems reluctant to breed, putting her on a diet is often one of the first suggestions you get (assuming she isn't noticeably skinny). Since this particular doe is a whole  year old and this was her first litter, most rabbit breeders would think the chances that she might be a bit on the too plump side are greater than those of her being in low condition.



Very interesting and thanks for educating!


----------



## Hopalong Causually (Apr 3, 2018)

I was thinking along those lines too, Bunnylady.  This is a New Zealand Red and she is HUGE.  Not just fat but long and wide.  She weighed 13 pounds about two months before I cut her rations almost in half and bred her.  She pulled a ton of hair, made a beautiful nest and did everything properly before the kits arrived, then bombed.  I'm almost convinced to give her another try just to increase the number of sample tests.  

What have you experienced breeders found with your does?  Do they normally have the same size litters every time or do they vary widely?


----------



## Hopalong Causually (Apr 6, 2018)

Bunnylady convinced me to give this doe one more chance.   Other things on my mind are that: 1)  she has great size that I would like to retain for future meat rabbits, 2)  my other breeders are getting along in age and replacement of them in the herd is requiring consideration, 3)  she is now past that first litter sacrificial phase, and 4)  a buck from her to eventually replace my current breeder buck would be almost as good as a buck from her mother and my current buck.   I bred her back to her sire again this morning getting four fall-offs in less than twenty-five minutes.   But the pressure is on.   This is definitely her last chance.


----------



## Hopalong Causually (May 7, 2018)

Well, today was day 31 and she was right on time.  Unfortunately, she did nearly the exact same thing again.  Kindled only two.  She, again, failed to clean off the amniotic sack on one and it was dead when my eighth check of the day found it.  The other one she nearly totally consumed.  I'm now convinced that I wasted money on feeding her for the last 13 months and she will be culled from the herd.  I'm also convinced that genetics can definitely be a factor in a doe's litter size.  It is time for some management decisions.


----------



## mystang89 (May 8, 2018)

Sorry it came to that but I'd do the same thing in your shoes. Hope you find one that works for you!


----------

