# New to Goats - few questions



## Tehwrd (Jan 9, 2021)

Hello!

We moved in July to a wonderful property that we are renting.  Previous renters had basically trashed the place.  We have the human dwelling habitable and are now working on the barn.   We will be looking to get some milk goats in late February/early March.   We are,at least for this year looking only to get 2-3 goats to provide some milk for our family.  My daughter REALLY wants to raise a Nigerian Dwarf baby, which I am okay with, but I am also feeling like it might be helpful to us as newbie goat milkers, to have a doe or 2  who are experienced milkers.  We have been purchasing raw cows milk for quite some time both Guernsey and Dutch Belted.  My family is looking at me a little sideways about goat milk.  Is there a breed or cross that would be recommended for ease of milking, as well as tasting closest to cows milk?  I'm assuming already that feeding programs, hygiene while milking, and getting a quick chill are all important to the flavor of goats milk.  My kids suggested trying goat milk from the store, but I reminded them of the difference between store bought milk and the raw milk we get and effectively scrapped that idea. I am very curious about goat meat too and how it compares to beef/pork. We are already going with meat and egg laying chickens.

I would appreciate and suggestions, guidance, links, info, whatever you have time to throw at me regarding this endeavor.  We are going for more self sufficiency and while pigs and cows are not options in the near future, we are hoping to start off with our goats, chickens, and gardens for now.  Thank you all so much in advance!


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## rachels.haven (Jan 9, 2021)

Lamancha or nubian for breed (make sure your goats are disease tested negative for all three big goat diseases especially for your starter stock). Look for milkable long teats and good udders with nice texture and orifice on prospective milkers. Dwarves, which I have too, don't milk much and have teeny, tiny teats most of the time that you have to milk a little differently. They are small, and a quart per goat as about average, up to a half gallon on one extreme or only two cups on the other. There's a difference between a 50 lbs goat and a 150 lbs goat. If buying a doe in milk, trying the milk first is a good idea if you can. Personally my family won't drink nigerian milk. It's too thick/rich/fatty for them. Lamancha, lamancha nubian cross, or nubian is their preference.

You've got it right on the good hygiene and quick chill. Also drinking it within a few days helps.

Goat meat tastes somewhere between lamb and beef than both (lamb is greasy and gamey, beef is course and a little bland, goat is perfect). I like it better. I wethered all our bucklings and took them to processing in the fall. Wonderful perk.

Fiasco farms is a good website to raid for starter info.

Basically goats need their secure, high quality fencing around plenty of room, second cutting grass or alfalfa hay in strong feeders, good shelter from rain, wind, and snow, and lots of fresh clean water. Worming/parasite control, mineral supplements, vaccinations, grain, and hoof trimming come in later.

I like my bucks, btw. Keeping a pair of boys is not as terrible as people make it out to be. Better for biosecurity and not shoving goats in the mini van.


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## Tehwrd (Jan 9, 2021)

rachels.haven said:


> Lamancha or nubian for breed (make sure your goats are disease tested negative for all three big goat diseases especially for your starter stock). Look for milkable long teats and good udders with nice texture and orifice on prospective milkers. Dwarves, which I have too, don't milk much and have teeny, tiny teats most of the time that you have to milk a little differently. They are small, and a quart per goat as about average, up to a half gallon on one extreme or only two cups on the other. There's a difference between a 50 lbs goat and a 150 lbs goat. If buying a doe in milk, trying the milk first is a good idea if you can. Personally my family won't drink nigerian milk. It's too thick/rich/fatty for them. Lamancha, lamancha nubian cross, or nubian is their preference.
> 
> You've got it right on the good hygiene and quick chill. Also drinking it within a few days helps.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for this information!  This is very helpful.  I didnt realize that wethering bucks from dairy goats yielded good meat.  That would definitely be better than yet another breed!


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## messybun (Jan 9, 2021)

I’ve drank some milk from my pygmies, and while it wasn’t cow milk, it was super sweet. My family didn’t even really notice.


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## Mini Horses (Jan 9, 2021)

As @rachels.haven has pointed out, better to get larger breeds and already milking trained for starters.  Nubians are good.  I have those and Saanens, plus some cross of those two.  Both breeds give good milk, a good amount and it's really tasty.  The Saanens generally give more quantity and milk strong a little longer.   Expect about 10 months of milk, although my Saanens  tend to milk longer with good production.   Good cheese from goat milk, there's also cream and butter if you want to have that.  While the ND are cute, those tiny teats are a challenge!   

I've not tried LaMancha but not a fan of Alpine, Toggenberg and Oberhalsi, personally.

Goats are herd animals and I'd suggest you get two who are already friends if possible.  Just makes it easier on you until you get accustomed to goats.  Easier on the goats, too.


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## mcjam (Jan 13, 2021)

I would highly recommend that you buy a quality goat in milk, after having the seller teach you to milk it, and you get a TASTE of that particular 
goat's milk to make sure that you like it. All dairy animals have their own unique flavor. Some milk will taste amazingly good, milk.fom.a.different animal will.make you gag. Don't go for bargain basement pricing...you get what you pay for...buy quality and you only cry once. A reputable breeder will be happy to take time with you. They are just as concerned that their animal gets a good home as you are in getting an animal that will fill your needs.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 13, 2021)

Buy a standard size milk goat.  The dwarf breeds may be cute, but any milk goat you have to bend over to lead or work with is out for me.  My back prefers to lead the goat by her collar while standing upright.  And trying to milk teeny-tiny teats with just a couple fingers is difficult.  A standard milker will give you about 3 pints to a gallon per day.  Get two milers so you can dry one up and keep the other milking  By breeding at different times, you will have household milk year round.  

A second freshening doe is best if you can find one.  Third and fourth freshening is ok as long as the udder is not lopsided or distorted which might signal some previous mastitis.    Make sure the teats are comfortable to milk and have the owner show you how to milk.  Make sure you like the way the goat milks and stands for you.  Any bad behavior don't bother with the goat.   Ask for milk records of how much the goat gave on her last lactation, kidding dates numbers of kids, etc.  *BE SURE TO DRINK SOME OF THE MIK BEFORE BYING ANY GOAT!!!  Not all goat milk tastes the same.  Even goats of the same breed can have different tasting milk.  *

We prefer Nubian and as a close second LaMancha milk.  Never tried Saanen but don't like Alpine or Oberhasli and Toggenburg is just rank.    We had Toggs and had to drink Togg milk when we dried off the Nubians but we sold them quick.  Nubian milk is considered the highest in butterfat.  

You will need a mechanical separator to separate the cream, to make butter or ice cream.  *Strain and chill* the milk immediately.  Don't omit the straining since no matter how clean the milk looks in the ail, straining it will get out a lot of dust, etc. which can give the milk an off flavor.  Storing it in glass containers gives the best flavor as does drinking the freshest milk first, the older milk can be used in cooking or to feed other animals.  

Fresh cold goat milk is delicious, and if you have children who are sensitive to lactose, they can usually digest goat milk.


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## Palomino (Jan 14, 2021)

I'm going to have to be the odd one out here and say go for the Nigerians if you can find good lines. I had both Nigerians and Nubians for several years, as well as Lamanchas for a brief time. I found that the Nigerians were much easier to maintain. A milking stand brings them up to a good height for milking, hoof trimming, etc. and they can be trained to walk on leashes so you don't have to bend to lead them. Yes, the Nubians are taller and don't require bending as much, but they are also very powerful. A well behaved Nubian is a pleasure but, if they want to go in another direction, watch out! Also, with the exception of pipe fencing, they will also crumple your fences over time, unless you have a hot wire to keep them from leaning or standing on it.

As for milking, any breed can have tiny, hard to milk teats. My wrists were permanently damaged after a year of milking a Nubian doe. She gave so much milk and had such tiny teats, it took an incredible amount of time to milk her. After that I had to invest in a machine. I had some Nigerians who had easier teats to milk than she did, so it really all depends on the goat, not necessarily the breed.

An outstanding Nigerian doe can give up to 3/4 gallon per day, but those lines are expensive. It is easier to find a doe who gives an average of 1/2 gallon per day. Nigerians have the highest butterfat of any dairy goat breed, so their milk is usually very sweet, rich, and creamy. In that way, it is quite different from cow's milk. I think the Alpine's milk tastes the most like cow's milk. But keep in mind that what the doe eats also has an effect on the milk's taste, so the milk could taste differently depending on what feed they are getting or what weeds/herbs are in their pasture. I do recommend starting with a doe in milk, but most importantly, find a good breeder who is willing to help you along the way. That will be invaluable.


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## B&B Happy goats (Jan 14, 2021)

I also have had nubians and Nigerians, although I love nubians, my Nigerians have milked well and have given us no problems at all...depends on what you like I suppose


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## Ridgetop (Jan 14, 2021)

We needed large quantities of milk.  NDs were not readily available, and at the time were not a recognized dairy breed  for 4-H kids to show.  I still prefer the larger dairy breeds because I would rather milk one goat for more milk than 2 for the same amount.  If you bottle feed, they learn to behave.  Of course, our goats were trained by our 4 children to walk on leash or collar and to stand in the show ring so they got a lot more handling.  No wonder it didn;t seem ike it took that much work to train them!  LOL

One thing though, how much milk does your family need daily?  8 lbs. of mik (the proper way to measure) equals 1 gallon.  The amount each goat gives also depends on what stage of her lactation she is in, as well as 2x daily milking to keep her output up for a longer lactation,  Nutrition also comes into play since the ratio is 1 lb. dairy grain for every 1 lb. of milk produced.  

I realize we are all quoting the daily output in quarts/gallons but this must be halved for the amount you will get at _*each milking*_.  So a goat that gives 1/2 gallon daily is only giving a quart at each milking and a doe that gives a gallon gives only 2 quarts per milking.  Then you have to figure out the amount you need to raise her kids on bottles or allow her to nurse the kids during the day and remove them at night.  Removing them at night lets her udder fill up so you will have a full udder in the am to milk out before putting the kids back on her.


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## Tehwrd (Jan 14, 2021)

messybun said:


> I’ve drank some milk from my pygmies, and while it wasn’t cow milk, it was super sweet. My family didn’t even really notice.


Good to know.  My daughter would like a pygmy.  I can see we're going to have to do some research and find a way to taste some milk.


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## Tehwrd (Jan 14, 2021)

Mini Horses said:


> As @rachels.haven has pointed out, better to get larger breeds and already milking trained for starters.  Nubians are good.  I have those and Saanens, plus some cross of those two.  Both breeds give good milk, a good amount and it's really tasty.  The Saanens generally give more quantity and milk strong a little longer.   Expect about 10 months of milk, although my Saanens  tend to milk longer with good production.   Good cheese from goat milk, there's also cream and butter if you want to have that.  While the ND are cute, those tiny teats are a challenge!
> 
> I've not tried LaMancha but not a fan of Alpine, Toggenberg and Oberhalsi, personally.
> 
> Goats are herd animals and I'd suggest you get two who are already friends if possible.  Just makes it easier on you until you get accustomed to goats.  Easier on the goats, too.


Thank you for this information.  Sounds like we need to do some milk tasting from the different breeds, somehow and yes, we're planning on a couple of them and would ideally have their breeding off set enough to keep milk all year.


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## Tehwrd (Jan 14, 2021)

mcjam said:


> I would highly recommend that you buy a quality goat in milk, after having the seller teach you to milk it, and you get a TASTE of that particular
> goat's milk to make sure that you like it. All dairy animals have their own unique flavor. Some milk will taste amazingly good, milk.fom.a.different animal will.make you gag. Don't go for bargain basement pricing...you get what you pay for...buy quality and you only cry once. A reputable breeder will be happy to take time with you. They are just as concerned that their animal gets a good home as you are in getting an animal that will fill your needs.


I am really looking for and hoping to find an experienced goat already in milk.  We aren't looking for bargain basement pricing - but we are on a budget, so I'm hoping that it will be enough for a couple of quality animals.


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## Tehwrd (Jan 14, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> Buy a standard size milk goat.  The dwarf breeds may be cute, but any milk goat you have to bend over to lead or work with is out for me.  My back prefers to lead the goat by her collar while standing upright.  And trying to milk teeny-tiny teats with just a couple fingers is difficult.  A standard milker will give you about 3 pints to a gallon per day.  Get two milers so you can dry one up and keep the other milking  By breeding at different times, you will have household milk year round.
> 
> A second freshening doe is best if you can find one.  Third and fourth freshening is ok as long as the udder is not lopsided or distorted which might signal some previous mastitis.    Make sure the teats are comfortable to milk and have the owner show you how to milk.  Make sure you like the way the goat milks and stands for you.  Any bad behavior don't bother with the goat.   Ask for milk records of how much the goat gave on her last lactation, kidding dates numbers of kids, etc.  *BE SURE TO DRINK SOME OF THE MIK BEFORE BYING ANY GOAT!!!  Not all goat milk tastes the same.  Even goats of the same breed can have different tasting milk.  *
> 
> ...


It seems as though there are as many preferences to taste as breeds!  A dislike for Togg milk seems to be pretty universal though!  I wouldn't have even thought about tasting the specific goat's milk.  Thank you so much for that point!  I will definitely remember that.  I wondered about straining.  It seemed that no matter how much attention is paid to hygiene, there's bound to be stray bits in the pail.  It sounds like I may need to look into the Nubians some - liking their milk seems to be popular too!  I don't think that I've seen anyone say they didn't like Nubian milk.  

Good to know about the cream separator.  I was wondering if the cream would separate and rise to the top like cow milk or not.  Thanks so much for all of the information!


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## Tehwrd (Jan 14, 2021)

Palomino said:


> I'm going to have to be the odd one out here and say go for the Nigerians if you can find good lines. I had both Nigerians and Nubians for several years, as well as Lamanchas for a brief time. I found that the Nigerians were much easier to maintain. A milking stand brings them up to a good height for milking, hoof trimming, etc. and they can be trained to walk on leashes so you don't have to bend to lead them. Yes, the Nubians are taller and don't require bending as much, but they are also very powerful. A well behaved Nubian is a pleasure but, if they want to go in another direction, watch out! Also, with the exception of pipe fencing, they will also crumple your fences over time, unless you have a hot wire to keep them from leaning or standing on it.
> 
> As for milking, any breed can have tiny, hard to milk teats. My wrists were permanently damaged after a year of milking a Nubian doe. She gave so much milk and had such tiny teats, it took an incredible amount of time to milk her. After that I had to invest in a machine. I had some Nigerians who had easier teats to milk than she did, so it really all depends on the goat, not necessarily the breed.
> 
> An outstanding Nigerian doe can give up to 3/4 gallon per day, but those lines are expensive. It is easier to find a doe who gives an average of 1/2 gallon per day. Nigerians have the highest butterfat of any dairy goat breed, so their milk is usually very sweet, rich, and creamy. In that way, it is quite different from cow's milk. I think the Alpine's milk tastes the most like cow's milk. But keep in mind that what the doe eats also has an effect on the milk's taste, so the milk could taste differently depending on what feed they are getting or what weeds/herbs are in their pasture. I do recommend starting with a doe in milk, but most importantly, find a good breeder who is willing to help you along the way. That will be invaluable.


Thank you for sharing this perspective!  My daughter is pretty tiny - she's 18, and not quite 5', so it sounds like that bigger goats might be a handful for her.  And one that is not a super heavy producer might be okay.  I've heard a lot about what the goats eat affecting the milk.  It sounds like I will need to be looking into the optimum feeding regimen for my milkers when we get them.  I'll definitely be looking for a good breeder!


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## Tehwrd (Jan 14, 2021)

B&B Happy goats said:


> I also have had nubians and Nigerians, although I love nubians, my Nigerians have milked well and have given us no problems at all...depends on what you like I suppose


Thank you for this input.  My daughter is happy to hear positives for the Nigerians!


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## Tehwrd (Jan 14, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> We needed large quantities of milk.  NDs were not readily available, and at the time were not a recognized dairy breed  for 4-H kids to show.  I still prefer the larger dairy breeds because I would rather milk one goat for more milk than 2 for the same amount.  If you bottle feed, they learn to behave.  Of course, our goats were trained by our 4 children to walk on leash or collar and to stand in the show ring so they got a lot more handling.  No wonder it didn;t seem ike it took that much work to train them!  LOL
> 
> One thing though, how much milk does your family need daily?  8 lbs. of mik (the proper way to measure) equals 1 gallon.  The amount each goat gives also depends on what stage of her lactation she is in, as well as 2x daily milking to keep her output up for a longer lactation,  Nutrition also comes into play since the ratio is 1 lb. dairy grain for every 1 lb. of milk produced.
> 
> I realize we are all quoting the daily output in quarts/gallons but this must be halved for the amount you will get at _*each milking*_.  So a goat that gives 1/2 gallon daily is only giving a quart at each milking and a doe that gives a gallon gives only 2 quarts per milking.  Then you have to figure out the amount you need to raise her kids on bottles or allow her to nurse the kids during the day and remove them at night.  Removing them at night lets her udder fill up so you will have a full udder in the am to milk out before putting the kids back on her.


We do not need particularly large amounts of milk.  I don't think we'd go through a gallon per day.  My initial thoughts were to leave the kids with the dam during the day and just take them off at night and milk only in the mornings.  I expect that would be more than an adequate amount for our family.  Sounds like we will need to do some more thinking and maybe try to visit some places and meet the goats and taste some milk.  Thanks so much for your information!


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## Mini Horses (Jan 14, 2021)

Cream will rise but not like a cows milk.   It takes several days of sitting and only a portion will rise.  Since NDs have higher butterfat, you will see a little more on theirs.  Goat milk is naturally homogenized (and A2A2, by the way).  So to get the most cream you need to use a separator.  They are pricy and have a lot of parts to clean up each time.   For me, with the volume of milk when my girls  are in high production, it's worth it.   😁   depends on how much you want/use cream.    The butter is white.  Personally, I prefer cow butter as I think it tastes better.   But, if you let the cream set at room temp 8-10 hrs it will begin to culture a little and gives better flavor.   Same is true with cow cream for butter.   Just a tidbit of info.    Cheese is pretty easy.  Lot of info & books on net.


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## Tehwrd (Jan 15, 2021)

Mini Horses said:


> Cream will rise but not like a cows milk.   It takes several days of sitting and only a portion will rise.  Since NDs have higher butterfat, you will see a little more on theirs.  Goat milk is naturally homogenized (and A2A2, by the way).  So to get the most cream you need to use a separator.  They are pricy and have a lot of parts to clean up each time.   For me, with the volume of milk when my girls  are in high production, it's worth it.   😁   depends on how much you want/use cream.    The butter is white.  Personally, I prefer cow butter as I think it tastes better.   But, if you let the cream set at room temp 8-10 hrs it will begin to culture a little and gives better flavor.   Same is true with cow cream for butter.   Just a tidbit of info.    Cheese is pretty easy.  Lot of info & books on net.


Got it!  Thanks so much.  We have lots of stuff to look up and decide on.


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## Alaskan (Jan 15, 2021)

Palomino said:


> Also, with the exception of pipe fencing, they will also crumple your fences over time, unless you have a hot wire to keep them from leaning or standing on it.


You had great points, I enjoyed reading your post and the different points of view..

But your fencing experience! 

Very different from mine.

For me, tiny goat =jumping all over and easily getting out of all fences.

My Nigerian cross could EASILY jump a 5 foot fence!  

Large goat = a fencable goat!


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## Palomino (Jan 15, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> You had great points, I enjoyed reading your post and the different points of view..
> 
> But your fencing experience!
> 
> ...


That is the opposite of mine! My nigerians were never jumpers, but my Lamanchas, ugh. No fence could hold them, which is why I sold them. I think a lot of that depends on genetics though. There is a jumping gene that some lines are known for!!


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## Alaskan (Jan 15, 2021)

Palomino said:


> That is the opposite of mine! My nigerians were never jumpers, but my Lamanchas, ugh. No fence could hold them, which is why I sold them. I think a lot of that depends on genetics though. There is a jumping gene that some lines are known for!!


My baby sis was told that if she wanted a fence guaranteed to hold goats, the fence had to be good enough to hold water.


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