# HELP!!! Baby goat weak..



## honeyb12 (Feb 26, 2012)

I have an almost 2 week baby nigerian dwarf..doesnt eat great almost like he cant swallow..so he doesnt eat alot at a time..we have been alternating Arrest nutrional supplement and a whole cows milk recipe (mixed with butter milk and evaporated milk..since we have had him it has been quite a struggle to get him eat..he doesnt suck well, plays with the nipples (we have tried a couple different ones), cries out when hes eating, acts like hes hungry but will take a couple of sips and let go then a couple of seconds go by and he will eat a little more. I have tried closing his mouth over the nipple, but when I do that he cries after a couple of mins. and it leaks out everywhere. He seems very weak to me..I dont know what to do for him Im at wits end..with trying to get him to eat. His poo is mustard colored and soft..he pees fine. I have him on heating pad with a heat lamp above him for warmth.. but he stills seems cold to me..I feel so sorry for the little mite..I dont want him to suffer but I dont know what else to do..I need some advice... please help!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 26, 2012)

I am sorry, I think there is something wrong with  him.  

YOu can take him to a vet and get  him Vitamin B shots, and a Bo-se shot(selenium and Vitamin E). 

You can get vitamin B at some feed stores as an injectable, But bo-se is a RX. 

You can tube feed him, three times a day, you can buy the supplies for tube feeding at a feed store. That way you can get more milk into him for a couple days, in hopes that if he gets more energy into his system he will do better. If you choose to tube feed him, I would make sure I added 1 teaspoon baking soda to the mix, his stomach wont be used to a lot of food at one time. 




I have been folowing along, since you got him, and I personally I think you need to consider letting him go. I am sorry.


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## honeyb12 (Feb 26, 2012)

Thank you for responding..I know I should..The tube feeding part I have never had any luck with that on other animals it seems.. they always aspirate and end up dying so Im a little gun shy..It just breaks my heart to watch the little guy suffer but we have really tried...I am very much inclined to agree with you about there being something wrong internally that we just cant see..


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## Mzyla (Feb 26, 2012)

I cannot offer much help, but can only tell you that I had somewhat similar situation:
When I bought 2 weeks old doelings, one of them was bigger and one was tiny.

The tiny one didn't want to suck the bottle at all, or accept my milk mixture in any form.
She was GRINDING all the time.
I was forcing milk into her mouth by syringe...drop by drop...
She was fighting me and grinding some more.
I was devastated and going crazy....researching everything regarding "grinding" and got more worry after reading all possibilities grinding related.

On a 5-th day she accepted the bottle and drunk with such a hunger!
The grinding stopped!


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## honeyb12 (Feb 26, 2012)

yep that is exactly what he does is grind..I actually thought he may have something wrong with his teeth...so what causes the grinding?


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## redtailgal (Feb 26, 2012)

I would try some different nipples before giving up.  Maybe a straight lamb nipple, or even a regular baby bottle with nipples.  And if that didnt work, I'd try giving the milk in a bowl.

Have you felt inside the mouth for deformities?


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## honeyb12 (Feb 26, 2012)

yeah I looked in his mouth as good as could, didnt see anything out of the ordinary, no cleft palate, his teeth seem a little sharp tho..I have tried the red nipples that u buy at the feed store and a regular baby bottle nipple, one for younger babies and one for older babies..Im going to try a syringe here in a few and see if I can get some Electrolyte solution in him.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 26, 2012)

Here is an aritcle on tube feeding.  It is pretty informative.   Pretty much you need to have the right equipement, measure the tube, slowly slide it in to the marked spot on the tube, then hold the end of the tube into a glass of water and watch for air bubbles. If no air bubbles you should be good. 

Then you can put just 2 or 3cc of water into the tube first to see if the kid starts coughing.  then if the kid doesn't cough you can tube feed him several ounces of your milk mixture, with a teaspoon of baking soda mixed into it. You can also squirt in the contents of a vitamin E gel cap.  



Tube feeding
Goat kids are fun to raise, but like any animal they do sometimes get sick. When a young kid is too sick to nurse or suck a bottle, sometimes you have to feed him through a feeding tube that is put directly in their stomach. Sometimes they are found just to weak to swallow, and need warm fluids to revive them. Tubing a kid if done correctly is preferable to using a syringe to squirt the liquid in their mouths. This keeps the kids from aspirating any medication or milk, which could lead to pneumonia or death. Aspirate means to inhale into the lungs. Without intervention a kid that is too weak to nurse will not survive long. 
There are several different diseases and conditions that can cause a kid goat not to be able to nurse. The first is finding a newborn that has been chilled, or gotten to cold before it could be dried off and nurse. This is an emergency situation and steps must be taken immediately to warm the kid and prevent death. E. Coli is a disease that causes severe diarrhea and dehydration. Goat kids are also susceptible to Coccidia, and other parasites. Sometimes kids have oxygen deprivation due to dystocia, which is misrepresentation at birth. These kids need to be tube fed to provide essential nutrients until the kid has time to heal. Thiamin deficiency polio, Enterotoxemia, and Floppy kid also leave a kid unable to nurse. 
First step is to gather your supplies. Decide what you need to tube your goat with. Does the kid need Colostrum? Electrolytes, B Vitamins, probiotics, goat milk or milk replacer can also be used. For a newborn kid, I would not suggest giving more than 2-4 ounces of any fluid at one time. An older kid you can give 4 - 6 ounces of fluids at a time, depending on his size. You will need a feeding tube and 60cc syringe with an irrigation tip. These can be obtained from the vet or anywhere they sell veterinarian supplies. The tube enables you to put the fluids directly into the kid's rumen. The Syringe is used to hold the fluid before it travels down the tube. You will also need a cup of clean warm water, and a small syringe 3 cc or 12 cc work fine. Finally you will need a bowl or something to clean your equipment up in, disinfectant, and hot water. 
The first step, after assembling your supplies is to measure how far you need to insert the tube. Measure from the kid's nose, to the center of the ear, and back down to the chest floor. Mark the tube at this point. This is the maximum depth you need to insert the tube. Hold the kid securely, and dip the end of the tube in water to soften it. Insert the tube from the center of the kid's mouth, over the tongue, and down the throat till you reach the mark. You should be able to feel the tube pass down the esophagus. You can feel it down the side of the trachea or windpipe. The kid should be still able to cry with the tube inserted. If the kid is awake and crying, and suddenly stops while you are inserting the tube, withdraw the tube until it can cry and try again. It is very important that you get the tube in the correct spot. If you pour fluids in the kid's lungs, he will die. 
There are several different ways you can make sure the tube is in the right spot. Smell the end of the tube; you should smell stomach smells - like old milk. Remember a newborn is not ruminating so you will not smell rumen smells. Listen at the end of the tube; you should her little crackles, not breath sounds. If you hear breath sounds withdraw the tube. Another way to make sure is to stick the end of the tube into a cup of water. If it blows bubbles you are in the lungs. A similar check is to blow lightly into the tube. Watch the kids and make sure the lungs don't inflate when you blow. 
Before you add the syringe. Pour 3-5 cc of water in the tube. A small 3 cc or 12 cc syringe works well for this. If the tube is in the trachea the kid should cough. If it is in the esophagus he should still be able to cry. But, be extremely careful if the kid is completely flat or comatose. A comatose kid can not swallow, cry or may not even cough. His reflexes are not working. Rely on checking for breath sounds and bubbles. If the kid is comatose he needs to be revived quickly, such as the case of a chilled down kid. Time is an important factor, if you don't get warm fluids and sugars into the kid quickly he will die. 
Attach the syringe to the end of the tube. I like to just use the outside of the syringe and let gravity push the fluids into the kid's rumen. This prevents you from pushing the fluids in too fast. When you have completed your checks and are sure that the tube is in the correct place, add 5cc of water in the syringe. The water should flow freely down the tube. If not withdraw the tube about a 2" and push it back in. The tube may be against the wall of the stomach or kinked. If the water flows down the tube without resistance, slowly add 2 -3 ounces of fluid into the syringe. Let gravity push the fluid down the tube, hold the syringe up above the kid's head. This is easier done with two people until you get accustomed to the procedure. 
After all the fluids have flowed out of the syringe, add 10 cc water to rinse the syringe. This prevents any medications or milk from accidentally being aspirated by the kid when the tube is being removed. A kid can survive if he aspirates a little water it will be absorbed by the lungs. Milk in the lungs is likely to cause pneumonia. Remove the syringe from the end of the tube. If you cover the end of the tube while it is being removed it will keep any fluid left in the tube from leaking out and being aspirated. Just like if you hold your thumb over a straw and remove it from your soda. The soda stays in the straw. Remove the tube slowly, don't pull it out fast or jerk it. This can damage the soft tissues. Place the kid down on his brisket, sitting up, never laying on its side. If the kid is flat, from floppy kid, or is comatose from being cold, roll a towel or rag up to prop his head on. This way if they cough up any fluids, they will not aspirate any into their lungs. 
Gather all your supplies immediately place the tube and syringe in a bowl of soapy hot water, we use a disinfectant such as Nolvason or betadine. Clean all equipment and rinse well. We wash all of our tubing equipment in a stainless steal bowl, then pour boiling water on it to help sterilize it. Be careful not to burn yourself. 
Newborn kids need to be fed every 2 - 4 hours. Especially if they are sick. Frequent small amounts of nutritious fluids are preferred over large amounts more infrequently. This is especially for kids that are sick.


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## heathen (Feb 26, 2012)

My goats prefer the black lamb nipples. I had a similar situation with our littlebit he was a triplet the other 2 grew fast and he was so tiny I tried to buy him but they wouldnt sell him. Then after abour a month they gave him to me because he wouldnt follow the other goats around instead he followed the chickens lol. ( he still likes the chickens a lot)  I took him and wormed him he didnt really look wormy but something was just off. I gave hime a Vitamin B shot  and  and gave him a  bottle every 40 minutes because he would not eat like other bottle babies did. He lived in the house because of how often I fed him he loved to sit in the recliner and rock and eat popcorn lol.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








  lil bit 2 months old 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  little bit 8 months old He never has grown like I think he should but he is healthy and happy.  Good luck


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## honeyb12 (Feb 26, 2012)

Awww..he is adorable..Im glad he made it..and its nice to know others understand my frustration and can sympathize with me.. Thanks for being here everyone!


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Feb 26, 2012)

A runt I had a few weeks ago was acting like you describe for a few days. Acting very hungry but wouldn't really eat and just play with the bottle, his butt looked very tight too like he wasn't able to poo but a qtip with lube on it proved me otherwise.. His stomach felt really full like an air filled balloon with a little water in it so I'm wondering if he was starting to bloat from the formula. I actually skipped the PM feeding and stopped the formula all together. We started with small meals of whole milk the next day and he improved really fast. My neighbor now has him and he is a cow!

I'm not really sure whats going on with your little one but good luck! How long has it been going on for and does he just feel completely empty all the time? Has he been on a bottle for the last 2 weeks or is this a recent change?

He might not like the milk, or it could be too hot/too cold. Does he like to suck on your finger? I also recommend taking his temp and not going by feel. Can he get up and get off of the pad and out of the heat if he gets warm?


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## EggsForIHOP (Feb 26, 2012)

CrazyCatNChickenLady said:
			
		

> I also recommend taking his temp and not going by feel. Can he get up and get off of the pad and out of the heat if he gets warm?


We made that mistake with our first bottle baby - I ASSumed she was cold and provided a heating pad - where she laid like a lump and began the teeth grinding which had me RUNNING to the vet within a few days of bringing her home and per my vet when I got worried about her catching chill I was "cooking that baby and her belly of milk into yogurt"

Try taking away the heating pad and providing cozy room temp house and maybe a nice NON heated blankie spot only for an hour or 2...then take his temp...if he's normal temperature...keep an eye for a few more hours to settle yourself....and like my vet said "quit cooking goat flavored pudding in there!"  If he's not holding his own body temp at this point, then you have another symptom/sign and if he is holding his body temp then you know you were "over worrying".

Also, really need to be looking into the B shots and BoSe 20kidsonhill first mentioned - those are so small in their dosage but do SO much towards perking up a goat sometimes it's just plain nuts! 

And another thing my vet yelled at me for "over thinking"....it is not normal for a baby goat to eat only 3 large meals a day...they are "dine-n-dash" by nature when they are born.  Small sips...off they go...back again when they remember that teat is there for them...and repeat.  Not all goats are easy to get on 3 full bottles a day as they aren't "wired" for that.  We have a 6 week old boer doe that still prefers to drink half a bottle...run off to do something ADHD can't focus long enough to eat (so I feed the other kids) then she comes back for the last half of her bottle when she realizes I mean it and she ain't getting no more til next time.  She was a 4lb weakly runt with scours from poor formula when she came home a month again and is now  13lb runt with normal vitals and a short attention span - she prefers to play "dine-n-dash" at meal times like I'm a real mama goat nursing in the field and not a busy human with other things to do! and I thought she couldn't be getting enough...but she's gained 9lbs in 4 weeks...she's GOT to be getting enough  

If you have the time, and can do so, allow little "dine-n-dash moments" until he has perked up - keep little bottles available.  Like small people kid type you can easily warm quickly in running hot water with just an ounce or 2 in there.  And, the vet also told me to go easy on the electrolytes - per her: "Don't worry so much and allow her to be hungry for milk instead of filling her with pedialyte - if she's peeing she's got fluids in her"


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## Queen Mum (Feb 26, 2012)

You can also try a small animal baby bottle.  That might work.


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## honeyb12 (Feb 26, 2012)

Well he stood up for a few minutes and eagerly took some of the electrolyte solution out of a syringe( granted a few drops at a time, but he took it and swallowed it)...i will start the milk again the next time I feed him..I also gave him a little baking soda earlier..I figured what could it hurt and it might help..hes just so listless..hes peeing and pooping (alot it seems) but the poop is really thick and mustard colored and smells a little fishy..he also has a little blood (frank blood)..i suspect from having an irritated bum from having loose poo. What does grinding their teeth mean?


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