# Grey Wolves back in the news.



## Farmer Kitty (Oct 1, 2008)

The Grey Wolves were removed from the endangered species list earlier this year. It meant that under certain circumstances it was legal to shoot them. Now that has been reversed and it will no longer be legal to shoot them. It is the Humane Society behind it.

http://www.waow.com/Global/story.asp?S=9100499&nav=menu1360_2
http://www.weau.com/news/headlines/29991054.html

They are claiming that there are to few of numbers for them to come off the endangered list. Even our DNR (which has a problem with under counting) says there are to many in our state(540 wolves). There have been livestock deprevation problems. I believe they said on the radio something like 200 cattle killed and 40 wolves shot since the wolves came off the list.


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## Farmer Kitty (Oct 1, 2008)

A month ago we had a wolf where the red X is.


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## wynedot55 (Oct 1, 2008)

now thats to close.that would be a dead wolf if a clear shot was there.


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## Farmer Kitty (Oct 1, 2008)

It went into the corn field. 

But, you're right that is to close. That is in the heifer pasture.


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## dacjohns (Nov 29, 2008)

I lived near Medford (Chelsea) last year and wolves were nearby in the forest.  I also saw one further north near by Park Falls.  

Wolves can be a problem.  If I was a wolf and had a choice between a slow moving beef and a fast moving deer or elk I would probably choose the beef.  Short of putting up a 10 foot chain link fence, and that may not work, there isn't much you can do against wolves.


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## Farmer Kitty (Nov 29, 2008)

So far, we haven't lost any we could prove was to wolves. We have had 2 calves born on pasture that disappeared without a trace but, couldn't prove anything. Then there was a heifer that was injured. She appeared to have been hamstrunged but, again prove it. 

It's deer hunting season here, I wonder how many wolves are disappearing-not enough!


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## Imissmygirls (Dec 1, 2008)

Just heard today at work that deerhunters killed 2 coyotes on a local farmette.  Southeastern PA.


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## Farmer Kitty (Dec 2, 2008)

Here they hunt coyotes. Winter time with snow on the ground the hunters get the dogs out and away they go!


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## jhm47 (Dec 16, 2008)

Here in SD it's fun to call coyotes with a predator call.  There are lots of calls that work, but the dying rabbit seems the most popular.  One of my friends had a coyote about 3 feet from him, but it came up behind him and he didn't get a shot off.  Heavy cover.  We occasionally have a cougar come through here, and often see moose.  The county just north of us in ND has a moose season.


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## backforty (Jan 23, 2009)

I live in the Medford/Chelsea area and I agree the wolves are moving in.  There was a pack 2 miles from our place a month ago and I've seen huge tracks in our back field.  Theyre a big farm north of us about 35 miles that had a wolf come in there front yard and try to carry there 12 yr old black lab away.  The lady ran out of the house and had to beat the wolf off her dog with a bat.  Scary especially with my little kids!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jan 23, 2009)

backforty said:
			
		

> I live in the *Medford/Chelsea *area and I agree the wolves are moving in.  There was a pack 2 miles from our place a month ago and I've seen huge tracks in our back field.  Theyre a big farm north of us about 35 miles that had a wolf come in there front yard and try to carry there 12 yr old black lab away.  The lady ran out of the house and had to beat the wolf off her dog with a bat.  Scary especially with my little kids!


Of which state? 

I too have young children and it is scary. We had the wolves here bothering the big heifers for a couple nights thankfully they have moved off for awhile again. I'm just hoping they aren't bothering anyone else's livestock and don't bother ours when they move back into the area!


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## wynedot55 (Jan 23, 2009)

yall may have to put a jenny in with your heifers.they will keep wolves yotes an dogs off them.


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## backforty (Jan 24, 2009)

Farmer kitty I'm in Wi too.  The wolf trying to run away with the dog happened near Phillips, WI.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jan 24, 2009)

backforty said:
			
		

> Farmer kitty I'm in Wi too.  The wolf trying to run away with the dog happened near Phillips, WI.


I thought so.

Someone told me that President Obama took the wolf off the endangered spieces list. Has anyone heard anything?
_I'm wondering if this is the story she heard. Grey wolves _


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## Thewife (Jan 24, 2009)

I read this, this morning...


President Barack Obama has suspended the eleventh-hour attempt by Bush Administration officials to eliminate vital protections for hundreds of wolves in Greater Yellowstone and the rest of the Northern Rockies.

These beloved wolves have literally dodged a bullet. Under the Bush plan, nearly 1,000 of these magnificent animals could have been slaughtered.

But Greater Yellowstones wolves arent out of the woods yet. Officials in Idaho and Wyoming have already signaled their intent to pursue delisting under their existing management plans -- the same plans that would allow widespread killing of the regions still-recovering wolf population.


defenders.org


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## Farmer Kitty (Jan 24, 2009)

That's similar to what the link I posted says. I'd like to know where it would hurt their population. Even our DNR admits that the wolves are over populated, meaning more wolves than the wildlife can support. Our DNR didn't even admit they had transplanted them here for several years.


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## Thewife (Jan 24, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> That's similar to what the link I posted says. I'd like to know where it would hurt their population. Even our DNR admits that the wolves are over populated, meaning more wolves than the wildlife can support. Our DNR didn't even admit they had transplanted them here for several years.


I am sure you know as well as I do, when it comes to any animal, science is thrown out the window as soon as the bunny huggers open their mouths!
They are the squeaky wheels that get the higher ups to ignore us and science to save all the cute little animals!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jan 25, 2009)

thewife said:
			
		

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You're right.


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## jhm47 (Jan 25, 2009)

S. S. S. !


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## Thewife (Jan 25, 2009)

I spent a couple of hours yesterday with a guy that believed saving "ALL" the wolves was a wonderful idea!
Hubby felt sorry for him when he found out that he had gotten me started on the bunny hugger subject!
I was good!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jan 25, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> S. S. S. !


Yes, but it would be oh so nice if the goverment would open them up to regular hunting seasons!


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## wynedot55 (Jan 25, 2009)

the gov needs to pay for all the cows an calves they kill.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jan 25, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> the gov needs to pay for all the cows an calves they kill.


Don't hold your breath on that one-we value you as a member!


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## Thewife (Jan 25, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

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I have to agree with Kitty! If you hold your breath on that one, who will tell me "stories" of the Mythological Beefmasters?


From what I understand, our goverment was working on something to do with paying us back for animals lost to predators.
But, that only works if you can prove it happened!
If a calf goes missing, it's kinda hard to prove anything!


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## wynedot55 (Jan 25, 2009)

they dont intend to pay for losses like that.thats why i dont mind killing anything that i catch killing livestock.


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## jhm47 (Jan 25, 2009)

Yup, Obama is gung ho to save the wolves.  He's also gung ho to allow our tax money to be used to abort babies all over the world.  He's gung ho to halt offshore drilling.  He's appointed a tax dodger to head the IRS.  It's going to be a looooooooooong four years.


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## Farmer Kitty (May 26, 2009)

The wolf population in WI is back in the news. The populations is "surging".


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## wynedot55 (May 26, 2009)

wont be long till people be wolf hunting.


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## Kute Kitten (May 27, 2009)

I know. The wolf population is expanding a lot!


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## Pure Country (May 28, 2009)

Ok, I know I am not going to be very well liked after this and will probably be called a bunny hugger,  but this is what I believe and it is my opinion. I used to own a wolf hybrid, half timber/half German Shepherd. One of the BEST dogs I have ever owned. She died almost 3 yrs ago at the age of 12. She was 6 wks. old when we got her. Unless you knew what you were looking at, you didn't know she had wolf in her. When we got her I did a lot of research on the hybrids and wolves. I have always liked wolves. Would I get another one if I could? You bet! 

I know it needs to be done, but I don't like it. Wolves normally do not hunt for sport. They hunt for food. Now you may have a rogue wolf or an outcast that may be doing this but for the most part, wolves kill only what they can eat. No, it's not what I learned from the government. I have no use for the government, it was I have learned. Watch a family of wolves. Humans can learn a lot from these animals. It's because of humans, wolves do what they do. Humans have caused so much trouble and tribulations for animals. Why do you think you see so many wild animals in people's yards, etc? Because humans are forcing them there. They are taking away their food sources, they homes by cutting down trees, building all over the place. Yeah, I know they can be a problem to livestock, etc. But you are in their territory. The government leases out all this land to ranchers, etc but they don't give a thought about the wildlife that live on that land. They were here before humans were. HUMANS are the problem. Don't blame the wolves or bear or cougar. They are doing what they can to survive. Just like we do.

Wolves are a vital part of the eco system, as are many other predators, but if they are getting over populated, they do need to be regulated.  Should the population deteriorate(?) again, they should be put back on the endangered species list. Should I be in an area where wolves are a problem, I would not like it but would do what I needed to do.  Actually, I think I would like to live close to where wolves are.  Our problem is coyotes. They haven't bothered the calves, yet, they just pass thru the pasture.  We used to have problems with our neighbors dogs.  It is open season on coyotes and should we have a problem with them, one of the girls will be up top, sitting in their truck, with their shotguns waiting for one to pass thru.  The only problem is, they normally do it at night.  We have been known to have bobcat in our area tho I haven't seen or heard one is a long time.  We have even seen signs of bear but not in a long time. 

Our cattle are not our lifestyle anyway.  I guess you could say they are more of a working hobby.  We have lost animals to a freak accident(snake bite) or being born prematurely.  One broodcow had triplets and lost all of the.  We had several sets of twins and they survived. I work full time, my girls work full time in law enforcement and hubby is a retired federal firefighter w/100% VA disability.


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## Farmer Kitty (May 28, 2009)

I'd rather have the coyotes your worrying about than the wolves. There are way to many here for the wildlife to support and that is a huge problem.


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## gaited horse (Jun 2, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Yup, Obama is gung ho to save the wolves.  He's also gung ho to allow our tax money to be used to abort babies all over the world.  He's gung ho to halt offshore drilling.  He's appointed a tax dodger to head the IRS.  It's going to be a looooooooooong four years.


is'nt he just so great


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## sparkles2307 (Jun 2, 2009)

gaited horse said:
			
		

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I dont like the name rhyming with Osama..... lol

And I dont care how rare it is, if its after my kids I am going to shoot it and if they tell me that is wrong I will ask how much they were going to pay me to "compensate for the loss" of my children!


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 2, 2009)

Please, let's not go political.


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## gaited horse (Jun 4, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> Please, let's not go political.


sorry farmer


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 4, 2009)

gaited horse said:
			
		

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No problem, I just don't do political--to many arguments.


We have a neighbor that let his dogs out for a bathroom break in the middle of the night a couple nights ago. The dogs ran back to the house from the woods, which are right out the back door(tiny lawn), with a wolf chasing them.


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## gaited horse (Jun 4, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

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git the gun mama


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 5, 2009)

DH hunts. There's more than one gun here. The neighbor whose dogs were chased in has caught some flack over not using one but, spouting off about how they need to be thinned. :/


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## Roll farms (Jun 12, 2009)

Pure Country, I agree w/ you 100%....
Wolves also practice birth control...something a lot of humans could learn and benefit from.

Our livestock guardian dogs do a great job of warding off predators.  Otherwise I'm sure we'd lose stock to coyotes and the occasional fox...we used to lose birds all the time. 

Our guard llama protected the goats but didn't see the birds as part of his "herd", so he was replaced by 2 pyrs and an Anatolian Sheperd.

As a long time admirer of wild canids and predators in general, and wolves especially, I am probably one of the few farmers in the world who believes it's better to scare them off than kill them on sight.

Would I like it if one moved in and started killing my goats?  Nope.  
Would I kill them?  Nope, I'd get another LGD or 3 to keep them away.  

I cannot understand how folks can "blame" an animal for doing what Nature, in all her infinite wisdom, created them to do.  

I'm paraphrasing here but:
"Where would man be w/out the beasts?  Without the beasts, Man would die from a great loneliness of spirit.  For whatever happens to the beasts, also happens to man."  - Chief Seattle

Heaven help humans if some "superior" animal ever comes along and decides we need eradicated for doing what we've done to this planet...
Because they'd be right.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 12, 2009)

Roll farms, you may one day have to deal with the over flow of wolves from here. I'm not exaggerating. They are multiplying rapidly and are way over populated for the wildlife that is their prey. This is the DNR's fault. Nature would have seen to it that things were better in balance. You think a dog or three will keep wolves at bay? Or maybe the dogs will become their prey-some of that happening here now.


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## Roll farms (Jun 12, 2009)

It's proven that wolves go for easy meals...so yes, I do believe the dogs will keep them at bay, unless there is simply nothing else to eat.   
There are tons of farms around here w/ much easier pickings, free ranging birds, sheep w/ no guardians, not to mention the fact that
Indiana is grossly overpopulated w/ deer, Canadian geese, and many other types of food sources for wolves...why?  Because we have none.

My female pyr gathers and chases the goats into the barn while the male dogs run at whatever they see as a perceived threat.  Then all three present a 375 pound united front of teeth.

Anatolians and Pyrenees have been used effectively for centuries to guard against wolves, so yes, I'm fairly certain they'll be effective.
These aren't pets, they're like hired hands w/ sharp teeth, keen intelligence, and no use for strangers of any species.  

Personally, I'm more against free ranging dogs who DO kill for sport then run home to their 'masters' for a bowl of kibble, than I am a NATURAL predator.  
Idiot townies move out here and let their dogs roam, and my guardians have dispatched a few of them.  I don't blame the dogs, once again, I blame the owners.
As usual, the animals suffer for human ignorance.

This is one of those things that we'll have to agree to disagree on, I think.
I don't begrudge you your opinion, I just don't have the same one is all.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 13, 2009)

Wolves are beautiful animals. But, also destructive and deadly.

I understand your view. It's the rose colored glasses one of someone who has never actually dealt with wolves. I *used to* have it.

Here are a few more used tos for you.
We *used to* have to many deer.
We *used to *see fawns past the end of June.
We* used to* see one maybe two at a time.
We *used to* be able to say we had never lost an animal due to wolves. 2 calves born out on pasture.
We *used to* be able to say we had never treated an animal due to a wolf attack. She was a big, 7 1/2 month pregnant heifer with no health issues-note said was.
We *used to* be able to say we had never had a wolf within .22 pistol shooting range of the house. 
We *used to* be able to say we didn't know of anyone who had had a wolf in their barn when they went out to do chores.
We *used to* be able to say that if you saw a wolf it would turn and go the other way.
We *used to* be able to say we didn't know anyone who a wolf had turn and started walking toward them.
We* used to* be able to say it was safe to walk in the woods unarmed.
We* used to* be able to say there weren't any stories of someone walking the road and disappearing with the indications being it was a wolf. He was armed too.

When you get to the point of all  these used tos then report back your view. I'll be interested in hearing if it has changed.


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## Roll farms (Jun 13, 2009)

You say it's rose-colored glasses, I say it's respect and acceptance of another living creature who's only doing what it's designed to do, and that *I* do not feel I have the superior right to kill it just b/c it might come after me or mine.  

Believe me, I'm not a naive tree hugger.  I just don't think I'm any better than they are or deserve to be here more than they do.

And once we kill off everything that we don't like....what do we have left?

I'd just as soon not argue w/ you about it.  
I thought I could offer an opinion since others had...
You've made up your mind and while you're right that I don't have to deal w/ wolves, you'll never understand that I'd like to be able to.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 13, 2009)

It's not the wolf so much as the over population. And I do understand your side, I've been there. But, what natural predator is there to the wolves here? Just disease (& man). Believe me, when the population was down where the wildlife could support it there wasn't much of an issue. It's now that the wolf populations have way exceeded what the wildlife population can support that issues arise. 

Read my used tos through. It's not just livestock deprivation, which shouldn't be happening if levels were in balance, but, they have come at people. And please don't tell me that they don't. Not when it's my own family they have come after. You say that you don't feel the right to take a life just because they have come after you or yours. Had that wolf been a person, would you say the same? If it was a person hunting your family and you, would you protect the person and let them kill your family or would you kill the the person? I'm not saying they all need killed off. Just brought back into the populations that the wildlife population can reasonably sustain, which IMO, is responsible wildlife management. It's not good for the wolves to be at such high levels either.

Just food for thought and I don't consider this an argument but, a discussion. Just because we have two different views to put out there doesn't mean it has to be an argument. Why is it that people automatically assume that differing opinions equals an argument? Why can't we discuss anything anymore in today's society?


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## Roll farms (Jun 13, 2009)

*sigh*
I just can't see how "discussing" this is beneficial.  

Now we're just beating dead horses.

I did read your used-tos.  

And, because you asked, I'll answer...Heck, yes, if a human came after me or mine, I'd probably stop them by whatever means necessary...why?  
I like wolves better than most humans.
Seriously, if a human came after us, it'd probably be because they're nutters.  So they'd NEED removed, by some means.  
It's (supposedly) NOT human nature to come after other humans.  

You're comparing apples to oranges.  

I can agree that an overpopulation would be a problem, but again...
humans are to blame.  Wolves USUALLY, historically, didn't do a lot of the things they do now....such as go after people or overpopulate an area.  Because so many new packs are establishing and splintering, you have more cubs being born to single pairs, where typically one big pack would only produce one litter.  
Like coyotes, familiarity w/ humans is making them bolder.

Bringing wolves back to help combat the deer overpopulation, and give the coyotes some competition....worked real well, didn't it?  

I just dislike the situation in general.  
I dislike that it's happening to a lot of species, not just wolves.

I just think it's unfair to blame a species and brand them evil for doing what Nature created them for.  Blame the idiots who took them, and their competition, out to begin with, and then tried to reintroduce them w/ no means of controlling their spread.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 14, 2009)

> I just think it's unfair to blame a species and brand them evil for doing what Nature created them for.  Blame the idiots who took them, and their competition, out to begin with, and then tried to reintroduce them w/ no means of controlling their spread.


But, man has created the issue so as we have caused the unbalance, isn't it our responsibility to make sure things are kept in line? Not only for our benefit but the wolves or any other species? To many will bring disease to them and if there isn't enough food, starvation. Not a pleasant thought.

You know, when they were in the small groups of one or two there weren't the issues that there are now. Two years ago there was a pack sighted here that was 11 at that time. Assuming they have all survived and they have just 2 pups a year survive, that pack is up to 15. Of course they may not have all survived or they could have had more/less pups. That's not the only pack in this area and therein lies the problem--to many for the wildlife to support.



> Seriously, if a human came after us, it'd probably be because they're nutters.  So they'd NEED removed, by some means.
> It's (supposedly) NOT human nature to come after other humans.


When it comes down to it we are animals as well. Supposedly we are smarter.  Who works their butts off all their life for material things? Who is the one that lives life as nature intended? Now whose smarter? I'm not so sure it humans.


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## Rence (Jun 14, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> We have a neighbor that let his dogs out for a bathroom break in the middle of the night a couple nights ago. The dogs ran back to the house from the woods, which are right out the back door(tiny lawn), with a wolf chasing them.


All the more reason to SSS. Our game warden tells us to, "do what you have to do, I don't want to hear about it and I don't want to ever hear you ate it". And that's good enough for me.

I think it's one thing to go out and hunt them down, but it's a different story when you're protecting you and yours.

Yes, they deserve to live and yes, they're only doing their thing. But so are we.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 14, 2009)

He never even thought to SSS--not awake enough. Although as wet as it was and the way their lawn is they could have proven the wolf was after the dogs and then they would have been legal to shoot them but, would have had to report it.



> I think it's one thing to go out and hunt them down, but it's a different story when you're protecting you and yours.
> 
> Yes, they deserve to live and yes, they're only doing their thing. But so are we.


I'm assuming that you are against hunting them? Even to keep their population in check with the wild life in the area they live in? What about disease and starvation? Isn't allowing that to happen, cruelty?


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## Rence (Jun 14, 2009)

Farmer Kitty said:
			
		

> I'm assuming that you are against hunting them? Even to keep their population in check with the wild life in the area they live in? What about disease and starvation? Isn't allowing that to happen, cruelty?


I'm going under the standpoint that they are illegal to kill. I didn't mean to get into the politics of hunting  

I'm not against hunting them at all. Their population does need to be controlled for the reasons you mentioned. I don't want them mulitplying to the point of coming out of their turf and looking for food in our direction, or spreading their diseases in our direction. What's the point of allowing them to muliply if they will do so unhealthy, unhappy and desperate? The animals should be hearty and healthy, or why bother? 

I'm not a hunter and it makes me feel awful to kill any animal. I hate slaughtering my own chickens even. And if I have to shoot my neighbors stupid dogs for attacking my chickens I will hate her for life for putting me in that position. But for me it's worse when you're "not supposed to". Some people will argue until their out of breathe that you can't kill an endangered animal at all. And others will argue until they pass out that you can, if it's a threat to you or yours.  The point of my post was that I wasn't trying to break a law, just protect me and mine. An animal, endangered or not, is not as important as a human or what belongs to a human IMOHO. And I'm sure that comment will open up a different can of worms


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 14, 2009)

If you go back to the original post of this thread it's about the fact that they had been removed and then put back onto the endangered list. When they were removed from the endangered list, it opened them up to a much needed (IMO) controlled hunt. It's to bad, again IMO, that they were put on the endangered list as they are now in to high of populations--even by our unable to count DNR.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 24, 2009)

They are back in the news again. 
http://www.weau.com/news/headlines/49001146.html --Story below.
State wildlife leaders estimate between 626 and 662 wolves now roam Wisconsin.
That number is up 14% from last year.

The DNR's current population goal is 350. They say 162 packs exist in the state.
The largest pack is in Sawyer County with 8 to 11 wolves.

Shooting permits were issued to 39 landowners with wolf problems last year. Two wolves were shot with those permits. Two others were killed while attacking livestock.

This year wolves have attacked livestock on 8 farms and attacked 3 dogs at people's homes.







Obviously the DNR hasn't heard about the pack here.


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## wynedot55 (Jun 25, 2009)

its time to have a wolf hunt.


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## Farmer Kitty (Jun 25, 2009)

wynedot55 said:
			
		

> its time to have a wolf hunt.


They are still protected so a season can not be established.


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## Rezchamp (Jun 9, 2017)

LOL... Sounds like y'all are talking bout Indians.
News flash, John Wayne died years ago. The Christianized European American stereotypical doctrine is "dinosaur".
Apparently it does not go without saying "Nature does not need us. However without Nature we are simply 'not'."
It appears a certain language is needed here. Read JOB,12:7&8
Stuff that into your haggis with European Starling, English House Sparrow, Kudzo, Flying Carp, Purple Loosestrife, Zebra Mussels, Influenza,etc,etc,etc
This year alone we have killed 750,000 acres of SouthAmerican rainforest, drained over 1mil acres of wetlands, built cities on 90,000 acres of the richest soils in the world, murdered over 1000 SouthAmerican Indians and 2300+ NorthAmerican Wolves and building a crude oil pipeline(DAPL) across the headwaters of a river that provides water for all purposes to over 80 million US American citizens.
Karma can be beautiful but it is just karma. Manifested destiny is our creation. What is it you wish to create for your children? How about their children? ....And your gr.gr.gr.grandchildren?


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## Bunnylady (Jun 9, 2017)

Wow, eight year old zombie thread. But I guess if you just want to have the last word, no better place than a conversation that died out years ago.


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## Rezchamp (Jun 9, 2017)

U


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