# First time goat owners - any advice appreciated!



## Pandagram (Dec 6, 2021)

Hi all,

We live on two acres and are have a noxious weed problem.  No matter what we do it keeps coming back.  Here in Aus it's known as Glycine and I have it on good authority from multiple sources that it's a favourite food of goats. We've been wanting to run a few goats/dorper sheep for a while now so we're starting to prepare everything.

I'm hoping to get opinions on our fencing from those in the know.  This is the boundary between us and our neighbours and is about 5ft high. Is this tall/hardy enough to keep goats in? If not what amendments would you suggest?
Are there breeds that do/don't jump as much/as high as others? I've been trying to research it but opinions seem to be conflicting.

TIA😊


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## Show Sebright (Dec 6, 2021)

Pandagram said:


> Hi all,
> 
> We live on two acres and are have a noxious weed problem.  No matter what we do it keeps coming back.  Here in Aus it's known as Glycine and I have it on good authority from multiple sources that it's a favourite food of goats. We've been wanting to run a few goats/dorper sheep for a while now so we're starting to prepare everything.
> 
> ...


A breed that does good in a smaller area and doesn’t jump fences is Boer goats. They get like 200lbs so they can’t really jump into the air when they are full grown


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## Mini Horses (Dec 6, 2021)

I think it has more to do with the shorter legs and chunky body weight.   That was the case with my Boer.   Not near the interest in jumping "tall buildings".  😁🤔 My dairy does often weight 170-185 and can jump well, long legs.  They seem to stop majority of jumping when in milk, protecting from injury!   

Boer brings good prices in sales to meat market.


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## Finnie (Dec 6, 2021)

Hi! I don’t own goats, but just wanted to welcome you to the forum. 

I wish I could get goats for weed control here, too, but it’s just not going to happen. I hope you are able to get some good weed eating goats!


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## Alaskan (Dec 6, 2021)

I second that a good milker in full milk is less likely to jump.

Jumping is also an individual personality thing.   So, shop for a goat that respects fences.

Either way though....  I would stick 3 strands of electric on that fence, super strong, at bottom, middle,  and top.

And....  if the goat you buy jumps the fence, sell her.


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## messybun (Dec 6, 2021)

Get at least two goats so they don’t get lonely, and they’ll have less reason to escape. Also, if it’s just weed control and sell then think about maybe some older goats, sometimes the more mature goats are sold because they’re mischievous but sometimes it’s because they’re too old to breed or milk well. My Pygmy goats are a toss up, I had two that were bad at jumping but the rest have never really been that interested in hopping fences. My large mixes are kinda big and fat and don’t want to leave unless there’s a tree to eat on the other side of their fence. In which case they ignored the hot wire lifted the fence up and helped each other out. But that’s just personal experience.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Dec 6, 2021)

My NDs have never jumped our 4ft fences.

I've heard that Myotonic (fainting) goats are very easy to contain....I've never owned them though.

I think the fence looks pretty nice/sturdy and should be great for goats (might need to add some electric fence if you get a standard sized breed though).  My only concerns would be them squeezing under the bottom and if you do end up with jumpers, they could get hurt by the barbed wire (I believe that's at the top, right?). 

Yes, goats are herd animals and NEED at least one other goat friend to thrive and live a healthy, happy life.

Do you only want goats for weed control?  If not, that might help you decide which breed to get.

Make sure to read up on how to properly care, feed, and house goats - they can be more work then you think.

Another great forum is The Goat Spot.  Lots of helpful people on there too.


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## Alaskan (Dec 6, 2021)

Oh.. also....

Maybe you could find a local someone that would let you borrow/rent their goats.


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## Pandagram (Dec 6, 2021)

Show Sebright said:


> A breed that does good in a smaller area and doesn’t jump fences is Boer goats. They get like 200lbs so they can’t really jump into the air when they are full grown


Thanks, great to know! I'll definitely do further research into them.  Is there much distinction in size or behaviour between does and wethers?


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## Pandagram (Dec 6, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> My NDs have never jumped our 4ft fences.
> 
> I've heard that Myotonic (fainting) goats are very easy to contain....I've never owned them though.
> 
> ...


Definitely thinking 2 goats and 2 dorper sheep at this stage.  Weed/grass control is our main issue at present, the end goal with our property is to establish a permaculture based setup. The fencing at the top is just plain wire, not barbed.  
We have a clean unused tool shed on the property which is made from steel with a concrete slab floor with double opening doors that I think would make a solid shelter (of course the floor would be well lined) We live in a subtropical climate so in the dead of winter at night the coldest it gets is about 50f. 
Will absolutely check out the goat spot and keep learning, that's what I'm here for! Thanks heaps!


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## Pandagram (Dec 6, 2021)

Finnie said:


> Hi! I don’t own goats, but just wanted to welcome you to the forum.
> 
> I wish I could get goats for weed control here, too, but it’s just not going to happen. I hope you are able to get some good weed eating goats!


Thanks so much - I hope so too! I'll post an update when it all comes together😊


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## Pandagram (Dec 6, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> Oh.. also....
> 
> Maybe you could find a local someone that would let you borrow/rent their goats.


I have definitely considered this. But we have 2 Border Collies (who will of course be separated and trained appropriately) but I'd hate to spook someone else's animals if they got over-excited.  Plus we'd love to keep them on as family pets🙂


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## Pandagram (Dec 6, 2021)

Thanks everyone for your fantastic advice, it's given us a great starting point. Here's a smidge of the growth we're dealing with here... this is about 4-5 months worth!


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## Mini Horses (Dec 6, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> I second that a good milker in full milk is less likely to jump.
> 
> Jumping is also an individual personality thing.   So, shop for a goat that respects fences.
> 
> ...



Agree!   I have one who thinks she can fly, almost does.  The other 12  stay where they belong....SHE is being sold!!  Shame as a truly nice doe and I'd love to keep her but, I've had another who did this and one day...a leg got caught, compound fracture at ankle.  Broke my heart but, she became freezer fill.  Not doing it again!    Some are just jumpers.


With that much forage, they won't be looking at fences!  😁😁. But you will be amazed at how much they can eat. 4 animals will take that out faster than you think.


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## Show Sebright (Dec 6, 2021)

Pandagram said:


> Thanks, great to know! I'll definitely do further research into them.  Is there much distinction in size or behaviour between does and wethers?


We don’t keep a wether on property so I would not know. If they are for market then they would be around the same size when you sell them. We have lucked out in only getting females so far.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Dec 6, 2021)

Pandagram said:


> Is there much distinction in size or behaviour between does and wethers?


There are definitely some differences in behavior between wethers and does with wethers being much more ideal if you just want pets/weed eaters.  Wethers are usually a bit bigger than does of the same breed.  Does will come into heat about every 20 days if they are year round breeders/cyclers....most does are NOT at all pleasant when cycling - many are sooooooo loud they sound like they are being murdered! 🤣  So if you have close neighbors and don't want milk and/or kids, I think wethers would be a great choice for you!


Pandagram said:


> Definitely thinking 2 goats and 2 dorper sheep at this stage.  Weed/grass control is our main issue at present, the end goal with our property is to establish a permaculture based setup. The fencing at the top is just plain wire, not barbed.
> We have a clean unused tool shed on the property which is made from steel with a concrete slab floor with double opening doors that I think would make a solid shelter (of course the floor would be well lined) We live in a subtropical climate so in the dead of winter at night the coldest it gets is about 50f.
> Will absolutely check out the goat spot and keep learning, that's what I'm here for! Thanks heaps!


Sounds like a good idea to get both sheep and goats.  Between the two species, they should clear your property up pretty nicely.  Okay, that's good the wire isn't barbed.  Sounds like the shelter will be perfect!  I also have concrete flooring in my barn and really like it!  Very easy to keep clean!  I don't even have to put bedding down in the summer - they love to lay on the concrete to cool down.  I honestly don't put bedding down until it gets around 40f- 50f or less and my goats do perfectly fine.  I have a few elevated sleeping spaces for them, they are also litter boxed trained.  The Goat Spot is fantastic!  You're welcome!  Can't wait to hear what breed you decide on!


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## Show Sebright (Dec 7, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> There are definitely some differences in behavior between wethers and does with wethers being much more ideal if you just want pets/weed eaters.  Wethers are usually a bit bigger than does of the same breed.  Does will come into heat about every 20 days if they are year round breeders/cyclers....most does are NOT at all pleasant when cycling - many are sooooooo loud they sound like they are being murdered! 🤣  So if you have close neighbors and don't want milk and/or kids, I think wethers would be a great choice for you!
> 
> Sounds like a good idea to get both sheep and goats.  Between the two species, they should clear your property up pretty nicely.  Okay, that's good the wire isn't barbed.  Sounds like the shelter will be perfect!  I also have concrete flooring in my barn and really like it!  Very easy to keep clean!  I don't even have to put bedding down in the summer - they love to lay on the concrete to cool down.  I honestly don't put bedding down until it gets around 40f- 50f or less and my goats do perfectly fine.  I have a few elevated sleeping spaces for them, they are also litter boxed trained.  The Goat Spot is fantastic!  You're welcome!  Can't wait to hear what breed you decide on!


Never had a issue with a loud doe in heat. Mostly they just pee in front of the market lamb


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Dec 7, 2021)

Show Sebright said:


> Never had a issue with a loud doe in heat. Mostly they just pee in front of the market lamb


Interesting.  Do you have a buck?  What breed do you have?

All four of my ND does are insanely loud when in heat, otherwise they are very quite.  I do have do bucks...  I know a lot of other people who's does are loud when in heat.


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## Show Sebright (Dec 7, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Interesting.  Do you have a buck?  What breed do you have?
> 
> All four of my ND does are insanely loud when in heat, otherwise they are very quite.  I do have do bucks...  I know a lot of other people who's does are loud when in heat.


Nope, we have a breeder that we send the ladies too. We don’t have the space for a male. Maybe because we don’t have a buck?


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## Alaskan (Dec 7, 2021)

Show Sebright said:


> Nope, we have a breeder that we send the ladies too. We don’t have the space for a male. Maybe because we don’t have a buck?


What breeds?

My Nubian was always LOUD when in heat.

My Saanen was quiet, super hard to tell she was in heat.  My mixes were quiet, but you could tell they were in heat.


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## Dandy Hill Farm (Dec 7, 2021)

Show Sebright said:


> Nope, we have a breeder that we send the ladies too. We don’t have the space for a male. Maybe because we don’t have a buck?


Maybe......

Yes, what breed(s)?  I know some can be louder than others.


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## Show Sebright (Dec 7, 2021)

Alaskan said:


> What breeds?
> 
> My Nubian was always LOUD when in heat.
> 
> My Saanen was quiet, super hard to tell she was in heat.  My mixes were quiet, but you could tell they were in heat.


We do breeding boer goats.


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## Show Sebright (Dec 7, 2021)

Dandy Hill Farm said:


> Maybe......
> 
> Yes, what breed(s)?  I know some can be louder than others.


Boer goats.


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## JimLad (Dec 15, 2021)

I have Boer Goats, myself. They are quiet until they see me coming. Neighbours don't mind that at all. Mine are not very big but they are tubby so going over the fence is not an issue.
I'm told that they will squeeze under but I have a bottom strand so that stops them.
Their paddocks used to look like the picture but they reduced one acre in a matter of months. You have to help them by cutting up the branches and so on.
So much I'd love to tell you but someone already answered... They have to be content with their living area. Paddocks, housing feeding routine.
Take care of that and they are much less likely to wander but when they do, they will come home 🏠 in due course.
🐐


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## Ridgetop (Dec 15, 2021)

We kept about 100 dairy and Boer goats behind fences that were 4" to 5" high.  No one jumped out although they were clever at opening gates.  LOL

My worry about fence height is always about predators.  However, if you are in Australia maybe your predator load is less than here in the US.  Where exactly are you located?  Do you have predators?  You cannot rely on your herding dogs to protect the sheep and goats. They will bark but if you have serious predators, you will need higher fences, and more protection for the goats and sheep.  

Wethers will do the job, but if you want to really make the project pay, or be self-sustainable, then getting bred females will be better.  You will eventually need a male to produce the offspring that you can convert to meat in the freezer.  Meat production goats (Boers) are less labor intensive than milk production animals.  While fresh milk is nice, you will have to grain feed to obtain the proper amount of milk, and wil have to milk every 12 hours for about 10 months each year.  You will have a 2 month dry off before the doe kids again.  You need to determine if this amount of work is worth the fresh milk.

Next, if you decide to have breeding animals, I suggest you decide on *either* Dorper sheep *or* Boer goats.  Do not get both since you do not have enough pasture to support both species and will need both a buck and ram if you do have both species.  With only one species you will need only one male breeding animal instead of two.  

Personally, I would go with the White Dorper sheep.  I have had many different breeds of goats, both dairy and meat, and many different breeds of sheep.  I like the ease of care in the Dorper and the lack of shearing.  I like the white variety because they are more docile than the black headed Dorpers who many breeders of both varieties agree are sort of flighty.  The reason I would choose Dorpers over Boer goats is that Dorpers graze *and* browse.  Goats are mainly browsers and standard sheep are mostly grazers, but the Dorper was developed to do both.  

Depending on where you live, you also might want to check on the availability of both.


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## JimLad (Dec 15, 2021)

I agree wholeheartedly on the predator thing but even if you are in Australia or New Zealand you have to be mindful of dogs.
I experienced a dog pack attacking my animals many years ago and saw the same dogs sitting on the doorstep of their owners a few days later.
I have good fencing now but it doesn't stop bears.
There's always something. ☺️


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## Ridgetop (Dec 15, 2021)

Neighborhood dogs allowed to run loose are the worst.


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## Show Sebright (Dec 23, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> Neighborhood dogs allowed to run loose are the worst.


That’s not allowed here.


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## Ridgetop (Dec 24, 2021)

Not usually allowed anywhere but it happens.  Some dogs escape from fenced yards, others belong to negligent owners.  Still others belong to city owners who move into a 'ranchy' area and figure with so much open space their dogs should be allowed to run.


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## Ridgetop (Dec 24, 2021)

It is why we have kept LGDs for 30 years.  Neighborhood dogs came in or fenced yard at night and killed half of DH's rabbit herd.  8 champion bucks and does dead.  Others had to be destroyed due to missing limbs.  10 years of breeding and genetics on DH's part gone in a single attack.


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## Alaskan (Dec 24, 2021)

Ridgetop said:


> It is why we have kept LGDs for 30 years.  Neighborhood dogs came in or fenced yard at night and killed half of DH's rabbit herd.  8 champion bucks and does dead.  Others had to be destroyed due to missing limbs.  10 years of breeding and genetics on DH's part gone in a single attack.


Sadly I hear about that sort of stuff often.

And no livestock is fully immune.

We had stray dogs come on to our ranch one summer...  they chased and ran a cow until she died of the heat.


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