# Goat enclosure question(s)



## KYRuralChick (Oct 19, 2011)

Hello every one. We are getting ready to purchase an American La Manch yearling doe in a few weeks. We just purchased a house with a huge barn. The pasture sits on 7 acres and has 5 strand barbed wire fencing (4 feet tall) all around it. Will this keep my goat(s) in? Do I need to have a smaller enclosure within the pasture for her (or them when I get more)? I have seen goats enclosed with 5 strands of barbed wire around where I live but just not sure how much total acreage they were sitting on.

Thanks so much!!!!


----------



## freemotion (Oct 19, 2011)

Personally, I hate barbed wire.  If an animal decides to try to escape, they will often need veterinary attention and stitching.  If they get partially through the fence and panic and run along it, they will actually SAW into their flesh.

Go electric (multi-strand) or field fencing.  Consider not only keeping goats in, but predators out.  I LOVE my Red Brand horse fencing with 2x4 spaces.  I got a big roll of "goat fencing" with 4x4 spacing to cross-fence and I HATE it.  Lots of stuck heads with the youngsters and the fence is a mess from the goats climbing on it.  The horse fencing has been in place for 8 years now and will be there for many, many more years.  So worth the extra expense.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Oct 19, 2011)

A smaller enclosure to keep her near the barn at times would be a good idea. Ours is around 32 feet by 50 feet right off the back of the barn and is made of 4 x 16 foot hog panels and wooden posts.   4 or 5 strands of electric would also work pretty well for a smaller enclosure as long as you keep the electric on, Goats learn pretty quick how to jump through the electric wires if it isn't hot enough. 

As far as the barbed wire. I would at a minimum run electric on the inside of it off the posts, so the goats learn to stay away from it.


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 19, 2011)

Interesting, though I am not a huge fan of barbed, I do know the damage that can be done - I really don't like electric plus I have young children, who though know to not touch the barbed, occasionally do. If it's hot, that won't do. As for predators, not really a concern, believe it or not. We have researched and spoken with neighbors who all have cos and horses and their is a dairy farm across the street. There hasn't be a coyote spotting on years. As for redoing all the fencing around 7 acres, that is just to costly at this time. 

I like the idea of having a smaller enclosure near the barn if I need to. But I love the idea of the goats having all that grass to eat.


----------



## Hillsvale (Oct 19, 2011)

KYRuralChick said:
			
		

> Interesting, though I am not a huge fan of barbed, I do know the damage that can be done - I really don't like electric plus I have young children, who though know to not touch the barbed, occasionally do. If it's hot, that won't do. As for predators, not really a concern, believe it or not. We have researched and spoken with neighbors who all have cos and horses and their is a dairy farm across the street. There hasn't be a coyote spotting on years. As for redoing all the fencing around 7 acres, that is just to costly at this time.
> 
> I like the idea of having a smaller enclosure near the barn if I need to. But I love the idea of the goats having all that grass to eat.


No one has mentioned this yet but your doe needs a friend... they do not well alone. Grass you say, perhaps you should get a sheep... they do a much better job of grass.

Our sheep and goats are enclosed with a 4 foot welded wire fence with a string of barb at the top... there is lots around us to eat my livestock though thankfully I don't think anything has tried.. they are locked up at night except the pigs and nothings going after them.

Friend up the road uses three strands of electric, making sure there is a dangling wire around the handles, hers were escaping from there.

I would not use barb as the main fence, I couldn't afford those vet bills.


----------



## Stacykins (Oct 19, 2011)

Even young kids can understand pretty quickly that the fence is dangerous when electrified and can learn how to get in the pasture properly even if it is on. I actually would think an electric fence would be safer around children than barb, just because if one of your children gets hooked on a barb, then it can get infected pretty quickly. An electric fence provides a surprising but harmless jolt.


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 19, 2011)

We will eventually have more goats, I know horses and goats make great companions, it would locked up at night for sure. i may have to look into the electric now, I am just not a fan. i come the north were wood fencing is the norm and have adapted to barbed. I so appreciate everyones advice. I was so excited seeing the enclosed pastured done so nicely. the goats will be for milking (raw is our way). I wasn't so much concerned as it keepign my grass mowed, as the horses do a killer job at that. LOL


----------



## marlowmanor (Oct 19, 2011)

Children will most certainly learn about electric fencing quickly. Mine have already learnt about it from visiting my dads farm. The oldest two have both been shocked by it. It doesn't hurt them but they learn it "bites" and learn to avoid it. When we fence in our yard I do plan to just the wire fencing to start with. I would rather not have electric on our fence just because of the issues with the children. I'm thinking the wire fencing will keep our two babies in. I would not do barbed wire fencing around children though. I still have a scar myself from getting wrapped up in barbed wire when I was about 4 years old.


----------



## redtailgal (Oct 19, 2011)

ug.  I hate barbed wire.  I"ve gone through here and ripped out all barbed wire that I can find.

We use electric wire.  Four strands do well to hold in the older goats.  But when they were babies, we made a baby paddock with no climb (to keep stray dogs out) and the four strands of electric inside (the teach the babies to respect a fence).

I wouldnt keep a goat behind barbed wire, and I wouldn't try to keep a goat behind a wooden fence.  

Both my kids, as well as neighbor kids, neices and nephews all learned quickly to leave the fence alone.  The only one that took a couple tries was my little brother, lol, but he is a doofus.

I second not having just one goat.  Even if you have horses, two goats will be better.  Goats need to have their own kind, or they are stressed and get sick, frustrated etc easier.   Could you get a small wether to keep with her?  A happy calm doe will give you more and better milk.


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 19, 2011)

My girls don't ever try and go in the paddock, that they know is forbidden. LOL No seriously, but they are at least able to pet the horses thru it or give them treats with my assistance of course. Where we are at now we have (by the side of the house and on the road side) 4 slatted wood fencing and the rest is barbed wire, we are also on 30 acres. We wanted the nice look of the fencing around the house. With the knew house, it comes with 7 acres enclosed a huge barn and coop and the barn is big enough to house goats, which were told it did once. 

With the hot wire, though I am grasping from all your advice that it is better for goats, but on the selfish side, the idea that my girls won't be able to feed them treats saddens me and will them to. As for the one goat, it's only temporary I feel more comfortable starting out that way because it's new to me and adding yet another animal to the family is something I need to accustom everyone to because our schedule will be changing. We are hoping within a few months to get another doe and then inpregnant one of them to start.


----------



## redtailgal (Oct 19, 2011)

I like the look of wood fencing around the house too.  You could probably take nail-on insulators and hotwire the wood fence pretty easily. It may not be needed if the slats are close enough together that the goat cant get her head thru and strangle herself.  

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I dont think that treating the goats over any fence would be a great idea.......I think you may end up with goats that quickly decide that they want to be on the other side of the fence....and then you wont be able to keep them up.  We made the mistake of just petting ours over the fence, and HAD to put up hotwire around our starter paddock as the goats were going to go over, under , or thru the fence to get to us. 

I had one goat for just a couple weeks this year.  One goat is three times the work as two goats.  THe one goat screamed constantly, did everything in his power to get OUT of the fence and be with us, and panicked at EVERYTHING.  He dumped his water over, his feed over, got tangled in the fence constantly. It was awful.  I understand that its new to you, but one goat is not a good idea, ESP if its all new to you.


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 19, 2011)

My husband and spoke about this and we think we will make an enclosure inside the paddock with that hog or cattle fencing and give the goat(s) about 2 acres. we won't be having a large herd so for now this may do. It's just to large of a paddock to tear all that barbed wire down and replace it, 7 acres can be quite pricey. I want to thank you all again for all the info.


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Oct 20, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> I had one goat for just a couple weeks this year.  One goat is three times the work as two goats.  THe one goat screamed constantly, did everything in his power to get OUT of the fence and be with us, and panicked at EVERYTHING.  He dumped his water over, his feed over, got tangled in the fence constantly. It was awful.  I understand that its new to you, but one goat is not a good idea, ESP if its all new to you.


*redtailga*l, I'm surprised you lasted that long. 

My DH decreed *one* goat only. I picked up the second one two days later. He said either get another or he was going to shoot the one we had. One goat will drive you _insane_, get two, you'll be glad you did.


----------



## peachick (Oct 20, 2011)

KYRuralChick said:
			
		

> My husband and spoke about this and we think we will make an enclosure inside the paddock with that hog or cattle fencing and give the goat(s) about 2 acres. we won't be having a large herd so for now this may do. It's just to large of a paddock to tear all that barbed wire down and replace it, 7 acres can be quite pricey. I want to thank you all again for all the info.


when we got started with only a few goats  we sectioned off a smaller area inside the fenced field.  Instead of using livestock panels we used electric netting.
It worked awesome and is completely portable using the solar powered charger.  So I could move it to different parts of the field as needed.


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 20, 2011)

electric netting....oh I will look into that!!!


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 20, 2011)

KYRuralChick said:
			
		

> My husband and spoke about this and we think we will make an enclosure inside the paddock with that hog or cattle fencing and give the goat(s) about 2 acres. we won't be having a large herd so for now this may do. It's just to large of a paddock to tear all that barbed wire down and replace it, 7 acres can be quite pricey. I want to thank you all again for all the info.


Fencing two acres can require anywhere from 1,180 linear feet of fence if it's perfectly square (highly unlikely) up to 87,120 if it's a 1-foot strip that's 87,120ft long (way highlier unlikelier)..  The more rectangular it is, the more linear feet of fence you're going to need to put up -- but it won't be less than 1,180 feet!  Most cattle fence comes in 330ft rolls, so you're looking at 4 rolls..  TSC has fence for $169.99/roll, but it's junk -- especially for goats.  Goats are rough on woven wire fence.  You'll want to use the $229.99/roll stuff w/ 11ga filler wires and 9ga top and bottom.

So, boom, you're looking at $920 worth of fence fabric right off the bat..

Field fence that heavy -- which is still only _sufficiently_ heavy, mind you -- is probably going to require a wooden post at least every 24ft, with two metal t-posts between..  As in, wood, metal, metal, wood, metal, metal, wood, etc., on 8ft centers.  If you take the *best case scenario* of 1,180 feet and divide it by 8, you're looking at 148 posts -- one third of which will need to be wood.  

Seems to me that the last time I checked, a 5" wood post was about $10 these days, and a t-post is about $5..  So, there's another $1,000.

Throw that last $80 into fence staples, concrete, and other assorted things and then add about 10% for the stuff that inevitably pops up and punches you in the wallet, and you're looking at a $2,200 fence..  And that's pretty much your absolute best case scenario.

Now..  Having said that..    ..a 4000' spool of hi-tensile wire is about $100.  To do 1,180ft in 6 strands would require 2 rolls, or $200..  That's a savings of $720, if you're keeping tabs..  

Hi-tensile is a psychological boundry that should never have any physical animal pressure on it, so you really only need to sink enough posts -- t-posts, preferably -- to keep it relatively level to the ground across the variance of the topography..  I only sink a t-post for my hi-tensile every 50 or 60 feet on flat ground.  That's a HUGE cost savings, right there..  

Just for the sake of comparison, let's say you average a t-post every 20 feet of your 1,180 foot run of 6-strand hi-tensile..  That's about 60 posts..  And you're only going to have to buy wooden corners, so let's say that works out to be...I dunno...50 t-posts and 12 wooden posts.. That's like $370 worth of posts -- a $630 savings.  For 50 t-posts at 6 strands, you'll need 300 insulators..  They come in bags of 25, at about $5/ea, so you're looking at about $60 worth..  

So, $200 + $370 + $60 = $630, plus that 10% gremlin fee basically equals $700.  Tack on another $100 for a really good fence charger.  Sooo, $800.

Versus $2,200.  

And, FWIW, there's something to be said for sinking 50 t-posts and a handful of wood posts versus 50 wood posts and 100 t-posts..  And not having to manhandle 4 rolls of heavy, heavy, HEAVY wire fence..  And when I say "something" to be said, I mean HALLEFRICKENLUJAH!

Anyway, per foot cost works out to $1.86/ft for cattle fence and $0.59/ft for hi-tensile (I did $700/1180ft, since the $100 charger is a one-time purchase)..  Quite a difference, huh?

NOW...a perfectly square 7-acre tract would require about 2200 linear feet of fence..  At $.59/ft, you're talking $1,300 + the $100 charger..  Or even if it's like 300ft wide by 1000ft deep, you're talking about 2,600ft, which is $1,534 + a $100 charger -- still WAY cheaper than cattle fencing 2 acres!  Oh, and if you were to avg that 20ft spacing on posts, you'd actually only be driving 130 on the entire 7 acre job, which is fewer than you'd have to drive on the 2-acre job of cattle fencing..

And...  ...electric does a better job with goats.

Now, I know you've mentioned the little ones running around, and I can understand that...but really, they'll only touch that fence intentionally *one time*..  They'll occasionally bump into it after that, I'm sure, or just absent mindedly touch it from time to time -- but it's not going to hurt them!  They'll get jolted, and they'll get scared, and that'll be about it.  Electric fences are very, very safe, delivering very high voltage (mine's 6,000 volts) with no amperage..  And the shock pulse total time is measured in **milliseconds**..

I personally don't care what ya do because I don't have to deal with it..  ..but I do try to inform people about hi-tensile because... well... it's just a better fence! 

Don't hesitate to ask questions if ya want more info..  

OH!!..and when it storms and a big gigantic fricken limb inevitably comes RIGHT down on your fence line, you just cut it off, watch your hi-tensile wire spring back up, tighten your tensioners if necessary, replace some insulators, and you're done..  Like it never happened.    If you're dealing with woven wire, on the other hand... yikes... it'll never be the same in that spot.


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 20, 2011)

WOW! That information rocked!!! Lots to think about. Thank you so very very much!


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 20, 2011)

Just realized I messed up the first 1-foot strip calculation..  That should have been 147,242 linear feet.. Not that it matters, but... 

Anyway, you're welcome..  And FWIW, I have quite a bit of real-world experience with hi-tensile from boundary-fencing half my 26 acre farm in it, mostly by myself, and mostly by hand, so I'm not trying to convince you of something based on _"everything I've read"_ -- as is all too often the case with a lot of "internet experts."

I learned a whole lot in the process of doing my own fence, specifically about how I could do it *cheaper and better* if I ever did it again....like, using square knots to splice instead of buying the little crimps and special crimping tool, etc..  A square knot splice holds better, is faster, cheaper, and easier than crimping, and had I known that from the beginning, I could have saved myself time, money, and frustration..

Also, I learned that I put in *way* too many wooden posts for no good reason..  I had it in my head that they would basically be required in the little dips in the ground, basically for balast, since I'd heard well tensioned hi-tensile fence could easily yank a t-post out of the ground in a dip..  It can, make no mistake..  I've since learned, however, that digging a wide, shallow hole in the ground in a dip, laying a bag of concrete in it -- bag and all, still in the paper -- and then driving the t-post *through* the bag of concrete and on into the ground is faster, cheaper, and easier than planting a wooden post there..  And it holds better..  I have a 5" wood post suspended off the ground for evidence..   See, the concrete will set up in the bag around the t-post, leaving you with a t-post that's as if it's been driven straight through a 100+lb stone..  I call that the "excalibur method," btw..  

Lots of little things like that..  Where to place ground rods, how to use your 'cold' wires as ground wires to ensure against your ground ever getting too dry to provide shock, etc etc etc..  More than happy to share whatever knowledge I gained from it, too.


----------



## Queen Mum (Oct 20, 2011)

I used  5 foot high Hog panel stapled to wood fencing.  Never had ANY problem with the goats escaping.  EVER.  I have never used electric fencing.  The key was to make sure that it went all the way to the ground.  And that there was enough fencing at the top that they couldn't jump over.  If there is an area where they can get a High spot, then you need to go higher with the fence.  

As for just one goat.  Not a good idea.  And as for feeding the goats treats through the fence.  It's OK if the fence is sturdy enough that it can stand a goat standing on it without falling down.  BUT goats like to stick their heads through things and they have a tendency to get caught if they have horns.  So if your goat has horns,  don't feed through the fence.


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Oct 20, 2011)

Another thought looking at *cmjust0*'s post, if you did the whole property with electric wire, more than likely you can simply use existing posts and save money buy not buying many/any posts at all.  

I've done that here. Where I am I have different several different types of fence, one part net topped with 1 strand of electrified wire, one side 5 strands of barbed wire with 1 strand of electrified wire standing off inside to stop anything getting to the barbed wire, another part net bottom with wooden railing above.

What I've found is I need another wire lower on the net sections to stop them rubbing/climbing/stretching the net. I'd also like another wire on top of the barbed section because though the goats leave it alone (wire is at goat nose height) the cattle that are sometimes in the paddock next door (not ours) reach over and grab grass on our side and they lean on the barbed wire.  I also think a top wire would stop anything thinking about jumping over like the cattle sometimes do.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 21, 2011)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> I used  5 foot high Hog panel stapled to wood fencing.


I've heard the suggestion to use hog or cattle panels before because they're modular, they don't require a fence stretcher, etc., all of which are enticing qualities to those who have little or no experience with fence, and they certainly have their uses, but there are a couple of pretty big problems with using them for *regular fencing* applications..

First, they're expensive..  A 16' hog panel is like $27 at TSC right now.  That's $1.69/ft, right off the bat..  They're also really heavy since they're made for feedlots, so they're not the easiest things to hoss around and they require a fairly extensive post system to hold them up adequately over the long term..  As in, pretty much wood posts every 8'..  

But the thing that's really the dealbreaker for me on using panels for more than a pen here or there, or to cover a gap in an old wire fence, or a makeshift gate, or tomato cages  or whatever, is that they aren't *vertically* flexible like woven wire fence is..  Which is to say that they are, and shall forever be, _strictly rectangular_..  If your ground is not perfectly level and flat -- if it goes uphill, downhill, and has little dips and humps like most ground does -- you **will not** be able to force a panel down into the dip, nor make it contour to a hump..  Your ground will 'flow', but your panels will go  ----___----___----___----  and the ends will meet up like this \/ or this /\ and the tops of hills and bottoms of valleys, respectively..  If that doesn't make sense (it's hard to explain) take a couple sheets of printer paper and try to use them to fence over the stapler on your desk..  

Just sayin, mostly to the OP but to all fence newbies in general...don't be too drawn in by the modularity and perception of simplicity in a feedlot panel..  In practice, using them is trickier than it appears!


----------



## MrsDieselEngineer (Oct 21, 2011)

We went with the slightly more expensive fencing aka the cattle panels with pressure treated posts every 8'.  It's worth it in the long run.  The goats can climb, scratch and abuse it and it holds up for soooo much longer than the rolled fencing.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 21, 2011)

I've little doubt about it holding up better than woven wire..  Definitely some heavy duty stuff..  

Which reminds me..  I realized that I forgot to mention one of the really great things about hi-tensile fence -- durability.  Most hi-tensile wire is triple galvanized..  These days, most barbed and woven wire fence is 'shiny' galv, which usually indicates that it's an electroplate galvanization..  Hi-tensile is dull galvinization..  I can't say for sure that it's dip-galvanized, but it certainly looks like it to me.  And it's a triple-coat of galv..  I honestly don't know how long it would take my fence to 'rot' like the old barbed wire fences have done (they're *old* to be fair), but I'd hazard a guess that it won't be within my lifetime..  And I'm 33.

Granted, you may -- MAY -- have the occasional situation where something (like, a fence staple, or another piece of fence, etc) until it rubs through the galv and you get a rusty spot that _may eventually_ break....but I'd say that's going to be rare, and even if it does happen, you'd still just splice both ends back together with a square knot and go on about your day.    My fence has been up several years now and, now that I'm thinking of it, I can't even say as I've even seen any rust on the tag-ends of splices I've made..

Anyway..  Point being, hi-tensile is everything I said it was before, and it's *extremely* durable and long-lasting, to boot.  

( BTW, anyone else starting to feel like I'm belaboring the point and/or beating dead horses?  )


----------



## redtailgal (Oct 21, 2011)

Well, now that you mention it, I was beginning to wonder if you owned stock in hotwire somewhere............


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 21, 2011)

I'm not a salesman..  That's not a disclaimer, either -- I mean, I'm just not cut out for that kinda work..  

I tried sales once when I was in college, at a big box computer place that's now out of business..  We sold the old IEEE 1284 printer cables for like $45, and that's in 1998 dollars..  We could see *our* price when we did a sku check, and our price was like $7/ea..  They really pushed us to sell printer cables, which I did, like crazy..  Unfortunately for the company, however, the printer cables I sold a ton of were the ones across the street at Office Depot, where they were like $18.  I told everybody coming and going that our cables were a ripoff, because they were, and because I couldn't bring myself to *personally* gouge someone like that..

Having said that, I've also come to realize that when a product is good, and when it's something I really believe in, I can actually do a really good job of selling it -- despite the fact that I'm doing the job for free, and that someone else is actually making the money.. 

Hi-tensile is one example..  Another good example -- e-cigarettes.  I've started using one, and I like it so much that I've recommended it very highly to a couple of fellow smokers..  So far, I can count at least 6 other people I've convinced to drop some money into trying it, and four of them are using it regularly.. 

But, for the sake of clarity...no...if the whole world switched to hi-tensile wire, I wouldn't make a dime.  I'd be happy to see it, though.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 21, 2011)

Since I'm beating dead horses..  

TWICE now, I've come upon a particularly nasty curve in a state highway near my house and seen a car resting in a pasture at the end of some pretty gnarly muddy skidmarks..  The pasture is bounded in hi-tensile wire.  In both instances, the cars went thru the same wooden post, and in both instances, the broken post stood suspended by the remaining wires..  

Once, I didn't see that *any* wires had actually been broken..   For all intents and purposes, the fence was still functional, despite just having had a car run through it..  And in the other case, it appeared that just one of the wires was broken.  Each time, however, the fence was repaired to the point where you couldn't tell any damage had been done within a matter of a day or two.  Just long enough for the landowner to get around to resetting the single broken wooden post, since that's all there was to do.

Had that been woven wire or cattle panels??...yikes.


----------



## chubbydog811 (Oct 21, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Since I'm beating dead horses..
> 
> TWICE now, I've come upon a particularly nasty curve in a state highway near my house and seen a car resting in a pasture at the end of some pretty gnarly muddy skidmarks..  The pasture is bounded in hi-tensile wire.  In both instances, the cars went thru the same wooden post, and in both instances, the broken post stood suspended by the remaining wires..
> 
> ...


 You are great cm! I'm right there with you - HATE solid fencing now after using electric. Especially the plastic fencing (NEVER get that for horses! Seriously! You will be really sad when that $20+ board shatters because your horse rubbed his rear on it!...ps When I say "shatters" I'm not exaggerating! It really does shatter!) 
Knowing that, my main goat pasture has plastic fencing. I just tacked up some insulators and ran 2 hot wires. Goats don't go near it. I also use the portable netting, because I only have small sections of grass that they can graze at a time that isn't part of the main pasture (yes, I let the goats mow the lawn  ). 
Wires are so much easier to replace than solid fencing. Cut, tie, done. Cheap and easy! The panels can only take so much abuse, and they are hard to fix.
Only good luck I've had with the cattle panels was for my buck - he can push and pull on it, and not break it (he's a little demon with 4 legs when it comes to fencing, I swear!) As far as cattle panels go - WAY too expensive. 

As far as not wanting the kids to touch it - 10 bucks says that they will touch it once, and learn not to touch it again. You can still feed your critters through/over the electric, you just have to make sure you know where your body is when you are doing it! The neighbor kid feeds them through the netting with out getting shocked all the time, and she isn't even 2 yet.

Barbed wire is also a very, very, very bad idea (Especially with goats...knowing that if you think they won't bother it, they just means they are 10x's more likely to touch it). I boarded at a barn that had barbed wire in the horse paddocks. I felt sorry for the poor unlucky horse who got her leg caught in it, and severed the artery in her front leg. I can honestly say, in all the years I have had farm animals, I have never seen blood squirt like that! Scary stuff...Think of what that would do to a child if they got caught in it 

Now I'm beating the dead horse...Sheesh...Maybe we should start our own thread for why electric is so kick butt compared to other fencing!!


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 21, 2011)

Okay so here is a question. can I keep the barbed wire that's all ready enclosing the 7 acres and use one strand of hot wire  (all the way around) sort of along the bottom portion where the goats would typically rub against it height wise???????


----------



## chubbydog811 (Oct 21, 2011)

KYRuralChick said:
			
		

> Okay so here is a question. can I keep the barbed wire that's all ready enclosing the 7 acres and use one strand of hot wire  (all the way around) sort of along the bottom portion where the goats would typically rub against it height wise???????


If it were me, and I didn't feel like immediately ripping it all down, I would put 1 hot wire per every strand of barbed wire - hot tape right below each barbed, only to about eye level with the goats. That should be fine for the time being.

*Main goal is to make sure the goat CAN NOT easily touch the barbed wire without getting shocked.


----------



## zzGypsy (Oct 21, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> <big enormous snip>
> Don't hesitate to ask questions if ya want more info..
> 
> OH!!..and when it storms and a big gigantic fricken limb inevitably comes RIGHT down on your fence line, you just cut it off, watch your hi-tensile wire spring back up, tighten your tensioners if necessary, replace some insulators, and you're done..  Like it never happened.    If you're dealing with woven wire, on the other hand... yikes... it'll never be the same in that spot.


cmjust0 you are my fence-calculating hero!     

putting your calculations to work on my 20 acres... with rotational grazing setup... with adaptation for the 5-wire barb fence that's already on the exterior.


----------



## Queen Mum (Oct 21, 2011)

chubbydog811 said:
			
		

> If it were me, and I didn't feel like immediately ripping it all down, I would put 1 hot wire per every strand of barbed wire - hot tape right below each barbed, only to about eye level with the goats. That should be fine for the time being.
> 
> *Main goal is to make sure the goat CAN NOT easily touch the barbed wire without getting shocked.


That's a really good point.  Or use those hot wire connectors that put the hot wire just inside the barbed wire.  so that the goat touches the hot wire before ever hitting the barbed wire.  Do it so that it is like a fence inside the fence.  Then the goat will be shocked to discover that the fence is hot and never get to the barbed wire.  Make sure that you put flutter tapes on both the barbed wire and the hot wire for a while.


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Oct 22, 2011)

KYRuralChick said:
			
		

> Okay so here is a question. can I keep the barbed wire that's all ready enclosing the 7 acres and use one strand of hot wire  (all the way around) sort of along the bottom portion where the goats would typically rub against it height wise???????


Yup, that's what I have on one side. 

You can get stand off insulators, several types, what you need depends on the type of posts you already have. Mine hold the wire about 10" away from the barbed wire and it works great, the goats know the fence bites and stay away.


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 22, 2011)

CM, I loved your very detailed fencing information  and read it all to my husband. I really had no idea that barbed wire would be bad for goats seeing it's works perfect for 3000lbs of horses BUT now I do which leads us to choose another route. Ripping down a brand-new 7 acrea (which I get to some people isn't that much) enclosed with barbed wire pasture is not possible at this time. That is why I wondered about just one strand of hot some where between the middle of the fence and the ground would maybe work, but I am seeing that won't either. Unfortunetly, with just buying a house and 21 month old twins, 3 dogs, 3 horses and 5 hens money is tight. So we have chosen at the moment to hold off on any goats. Guess we will have to keep buying organic milk...for now. LOL 

Thank you everyone!!!!!!


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 22, 2011)

RareBreedFancier  I just saw your answer....any chance you have a pic you could post of that?


----------



## KYRuralChick (Oct 22, 2011)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> chubbydog811 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is exactly what I wondered I could do!!!!


----------



## RareBreedFancier (Oct 23, 2011)

I can take a pic for you when I go out.


----------



## Roll farms (Oct 23, 2011)

I am late to this party, and as someone w/ a bunch of different fence types in our pens / pastures I'm not going to address that part (who knew goats laugh @ chain link?  ).

But just as important as the fence issue, is the suggestion of getting more than one goat.

The number one thing that will kill a goat is stress.  Loneliness is a stressor.  New environments are stressors.  Being away from your herd is a stressor.
While it may seem 'easier' to you to 'handle' one new animal, you're not taking the goat's needs into account.

Chances are, yes, it would adjust....eventually.  BUT, there's a chance that it could go off feed, or stress could bring out a harboring illness, make it more prone to parasites / infection, or it's attempts to find one of it's own kind (escape) or the calling for other goats may just drive you crazy.  
I love goats.  Truly.  But a screaming goat will drive you buggers in about 28.5 minutes.  I don't have the figures to back that up (like CM ) but from personal experience, I assure you that is the case.

If you truly feel you can only get one goat....I wouldn't get a goat at all.  And I mean with the best possible intentions - you, and the animals' - long term best interest.

Also, horses and cattle aren't really coyote food.  Baby goats are.  Just an fyi thing...you / your neighbors / etc. may have never heard of them in your area...predators have a funny way of staying out of places there isn't any food...but goats may just draw them in.  Especially a screamy goat.


----------



## cmjust0 (Oct 24, 2011)

KYRuralChick said:
			
		

> Queen Mum said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can certainly do that, but allow me to offer you a little advice before ya do..  When you go buy insulators to do the job, get the longest offset you can find..  What I mean is, get the ones that will put the hot wire the furthest away from the barbed wire.  The more distance you put between the hot wire and the barbed wire, the less chance there will be of the hot wire becoming entangled in the barbed, and shorting out..  And make sure you put it up *tight*..  Slack gives it room to move and sag, and a sag that's too close to the barbed wire is guaranteed to eventually get tangled in it.

All to often, folks forget that their goats/cattle/horses/sheep/whatever aren't the only animals in their pastures..  There are also deer, groundhogs, coyotes, squirrels, turkeys, raccoons, skunks -- you name it, it's going to come into contact with that fence..  You may have your goats really, really well trained to the fence and they may not get to within even a few feet of it, but a groundhog isn't going to have a clue what that wire means as he's scurrying under it..  And if it's too close to the barbed wire and maybe a little saggy and slack, he'll drag it right into the barbed wire as he goes..  

The really sinister thing is that the livestock won't figure that out for a while, and you'll think everything's fine, and more and more and more wire will end up tangled in the barbed until you've got a mess...which is when the goats will decide to start escaping.  You'll go out and find not only a dead fence, but a whole day's worth of finding and fixing shorts..

So, like I said...if you're going to go that route -- and it's a perfectly acceptable thing to do, don't get me wrong -- go with the longest offset insulators you can find and keep your hot wire fence tight.


----------

