# Newbie to beef cattle



## RollingAcres (Jun 28, 2017)

Hello everyone!

I'm new to BYH and new to the cattle world. My husband and I have been talking about raising some cattle for beef, just for us (maybe down the road we will think about breeding/selling). We recently have a chance to purchase 2 Red Devon heifers (11-mo and 2-mo) and got them home last weekend. I have been reading and learning as much as I can.

We are planning on raising grass fed beef on our land. We have 9.5 acres, which currently 1.5 acres are fenced for the cattle. We will work on getting more areas fenced in so we can rotate the pasture. We also feed them sweet feed once a day.

I currently have some questions and I'm hoping to get some advice from you all.

1) Since we only just brought the cattle home last weekend, they still won't let us go near them yet. We've been walking to them and trying to feed them some sweet feed but in the end they would just walk away when we get close to them (about 5-8 ft). Any advice on how to get them to come to us or not walk away from us? We want to be able to get near them so we can check on them or work on them if needed and for future vet visit.
2) I have read that they need salt/mineral in their diet. Is there a specific kind of salt block to get for beef cattle?
3) We live in upstate New York. Even though right now is summer, winter will come before we know it and snow will be falling. What advice do you have for raising cattle in the winter? We plan on feeding them hay, alfalfa and grain.
4) We got them a 15-gallon water tank and filled it with water since 3 days ago. I've been checking the tank to see if I need to refill it but so far it doesn't look like they have drank much. Should I be worried? Do I need to "teach" them that that's their water source? They both did go near it, sniffed it and walked away.

Thank you in advance for your help and advice!


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## greybeard (Jun 29, 2017)

4. They'll drink when they get thirsty. Don't let them run out on hot days. A mature beef animal may drink up to 20 gal of water/day in hot months. A lactating bovine can require even more

3. Someone from that region would be a better source of advice than I would be, but even here in south East Texas, they need at least a wind break. Cattle can handle lots of frigid temps, and lots of rain, but in winter, not much wet cold wind. I figure you have about 4 months before the cold air hits your area. A simple 2 or 3 sided structure, on high well drained ground, with a roof will get them thru cold, wet, snowy nights up there. The side(s) the prevailing wind comes from needs to be covered. In summer, shade is all they need..any tree will work.

In winter, free choice hay is preferable--iow, don't let them run out. If you can't do free choice, put their hay out in the afternoon. A belly full of hay is like building a fire in their gut and helps keep them warm at night.

2. Loose stockman's salt and a good loose mineral. I don't do blocks. A mature heifer, bull or cow generally consumes about 4oz of mineral per day. That, is a lot of licking at a block when they should be out on the grass eating. Build or buy a covered loose mineral/loose salt feeder.






If you have a tree to hang it from, these work great:
http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69572
It hangs at an angle, which keeps rain out of it most of the time. If you can't hang it, put it in an old tire, and get a "Wind and Rain" type loose mineral.
https://www.purinamills.com/2.purin...andRain-All-Season-Storm-Package.png?ext=.png

Place your salt & mineral feeders away from their drinking water. You don't want it right next to water. They'll eat salt then go to water, then back to salt..back & forth and can take in too much salt. If you see them licking each other tho, it's a generally a sign they need salt.

1. Buy a bag of 20% cattle cubes. Feed them a little each day from a bucket. Just pour a few cubes out on the ground over the fence and once they eat some, they'll come running to you every time they see you with a bucket. Once they get a taste for those cubes, it's like candy to them. There's a 'reason' many folks refer to them as 'calling cubes'. Mine know what a sack of cubes looks like and I better not be standing in the way when they come thundering up...

Personally, I don't do sweet feed. I've never had any cattle that liked it any better than unsweetened feed. Molasses does add some energy to the ration, but imo, not enough to make any difference.


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## RollingAcres (Jun 29, 2017)

greybeard, thank you! This is very helpful!
1. I was able to get even closer to them yesterday with some feed. I saw that they were eating the feed that I poured in their buckets, so I got some more and walked to them.
2. The pictured mineral/salt feeder idea is great. We are going to work on building something similar or like the ones from the links you sent.
3. They do currently have a 3-sided lean-to, which we might add a half door at a later time. They also have a row of trees where they could go to get some shade. We are planning on giving them free-choice hay.
4. Yesterday when I got home, I saw that they were at the water tank drinking. So all that worry for nothing, lol!


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## WildRoseBeef (Jul 7, 2017)

1. This all takes time. You're strange to them, but give them a few weeks and regular interaction with them, and they'll warm up to you.

2. Salt/mineral important. Loose is certainly considerably better, but even in loose form you can't control intake rates because of the hierarchial/herd dynamic. Having the feeder NOT close to the water source, but rather out where they're eating or grazing ensures every single animal is getting the mineral they need. And they'll need the mineral all year round. 

3. Shelter is one thing, feed intake is another. Cattle in colder weather will eat more. They will need more energy in the winter, particularly during periods where temperatures are going to go down below their threshold level (which is around 21ºF) so make sure the feed they're getting is good quality. If you need to feed grain, about 2 lb of grain for every 10-degree drop in temperature will help them cope. Also, in the fall, checking their body condition score (done about the same time most northern US/Canadian cows get preg-checked) is a must to make sure they go into the winter NOT thin, but at a good condition where they have enough fat cover to require less feed and less energy than a thin cow would need during those wicked cold snaps. (At the same time, if those heifers are going into the winter above-conditioned (typically heifers should be around a BCS of 3.5 (on a scale of 1 to 5, one being the most emaciated) to be considered in "good" or "normal" condition; this would translate to, on the 1 to 9 US scale for beef cattle, about 6 to 6.5 BCS), it's a great reason to feed them poorer quality feed, or leave off the grain (which you probably will do eventually anyway) so that they can lose some weight prior to calving in the spring. 

Body condition scoring is another beast to describe. Typically you never look at the abdomen of a cow, but rather the fat covering over the bones of the hips, spine, and ribs. These are a couple great link to check out on BCS: http://www.beefresearch.ca/research/body-condition-scoring.cfm
http://www.cowbcs.info/photogallery.html

Here's more info on feeding cows in winter: http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq7955

Thing is, when feeding in the winter, thin cows will eat more feed and need more TLC during the winter. Winter is also a crap time to try to make those cows put on weight. So, make sure those girls go in winter relatively fat and sassy!

4. As GB said, if the get thirsty enough, they'll find out where and how to get their water.


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## RollingAcres (Jul 14, 2017)

WildRoseBeef said:


> _3. Shelter is one thing, feed intake is another. Cattle in colder weather will eat more. They will need more energy in the winter, particularly during periods where temperatures are going to go down below their threshold level (which is around 21ºF) so make sure the feed they're getting is good quality. If you need to feed grain, about 2 lb of grain for every 10-degree drop in temperature will help them cope. Also, in the fall, checking their body condition score (done about the same time most northern US/Canadian cows get preg-checked) is a must to make sure they go into the winter NOT thin, but at a good condition where they have enough fat cover to require less feed and less energy than a thin cow would need during those wicked cold snaps. (At the same time, if those heifers are going into the winter above-conditioned (typically heifers should be around a BCS of 3.5 (on a scale of 1 to 5, one being the most emaciated) to be considered in "good" or "normal" condition; this would translate to, on the 1 to 9 US scale for beef cattle, about 6 to 6.5 BCS), it's a great reason to feed them poorer quality feed, or leave off the grain (which you probably will do eventually anyway) so that they can lose some weight prior to calving in the spring.
> Body condition scoring is another beast to describe. Typically you never look at the abdomen of a cow, but rather the fat covering over the bones of the hips, spine, and ribs. These are a couple great link to check out on BCS: __http://www.beefresearch.ca/research/body-condition-scoring.cfm_
> _http://www.cowbcs.info/photogallery.html_
> _Here's more info on feeding cows in winter: __http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/faq7955_
> _Thing is, when feeding in the winter, thin cows will eat more feed and need more TLC during the winter. Winter is also a crap time to try to make those cows put on weight. So, make sure those girls go in winter relatively fat and sassy!_



@WildRoseBeef thank you and very nice to "meet" you!
We bought a bale of alfalfa for the cows but they barely touched it. Not sure if they just don't like it, or just prefer grazing out in the pasture. Who wants dried up alfalfa when there's tons of fresh grass to eat, right? We'll get them good quality feed for the winter and will also supplement with some grain. They do currently get some grain every few days. Mainly to get them get used to us. The older of the 2 will come near me and sniff my hand, the younger one still needs some time.


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## Alaskan (Jul 14, 2017)

Just FYI, I love training cattle to come when you call.  Of course that is done by feeding them.

However, I wouldn't ever want to train them to eat out of my hand.   Even a soft head bump from a cow is pretty powerful.  

As far as winter housing. ...how much snow do you get?  Snow over 3 feet and it will start rolling into your open shelter and eat up space.

With a big enough shelter, and the wind side closed, you should be fine...but do think it through.


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## RollingAcres (Jul 17, 2017)

Alaskan said:


> As far as winter housing. ...how much snow do you get?  Snow over 3 feet and it will start rolling into your open shelter and eat up space.
> With a big enough shelter, and the wind side closed, you should be fine...but do think it through.



We do get a lot of snow up here and will definitely keep that in mind. Thank you!


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## WyndSyrin (Jul 24, 2017)

Hello to you RollingAcres,

As I am also a newbie to beef cattle I would like to share what I have learned in the last year that I have worked on the farm that I am currently at.

Getting the cows to let you get close to them will take a lot of work. Your 2 month old I believe you will have a very good chance of getting her to warm up to you. It all comes down to how you treat them. Always give them a positive experience when you are around them. They will eventually see you as non-threatening and get curious about who you are. By feeding them the Sweet feed you are well on your way to them equating you with food.

Yes cows need Salt and Mineral. I have discovered through experience and reading that they need Salt, A trace mineral block-which you can get as a combo at a feed store. Also since you have heifers they will need a phosphorus mineral as well. The farm that I am on has just started to use Trace mineral blocks.

You will need Hay for your cows. Exactly how much will depend on how cold it gets. If you can try to find someone that has large hay bales and buy them from that person. As for a number in which you should buy I can't really tell you since what is used in the midwest is completely different than what you would use in upstate New York. you would want to up the sweet feed to 2x/day in winter so they have the extra energy.

If it were me, I would look into getting a bigger stock tank since what GB said is true they drink a lot especially during the summer. Case in point here in the midwest, we have 114 head of cattle and 8 bulls spread across 360 acres Eight of the heifers are in their own 20 acres and they drink down a long mettle stock tank in about 4+ days during the summer. And those are just yearling. the bigger ones have spring fed watering tanks, but the point is still there. they need water all of the time.

Also I would suggest that you look into a large animal vet, so they can make sure your two heifers are in good condition and eventually when you start having calves they are in good shape as well.

Hope this helps you out


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## farmerjan (Jul 24, 2017)

One thing that you might want to do is to let the cattle come to you, not walk to them.  In other words, once you get to the point that they turn away, you are getting into their space and they are reacting to what is known as their flight zone.  So, now that they have been there a bit, just call them and let them come to you or to your buckets.  Slow and steady voice, no yelling, no getting excited etc so that they don't perceive you as a threat of any kind.  
The younger calf may take longer, it's a kid thing if they aren't bottle raised.
A 50-100 gal water trough is better for them for the warmer months.  We have 18 cow calf pairs and the bull at one pasture and they are drinking 350 gal water a day with out temps in the 90's every day. I have to fill the troughs daily due to some problems  so I know what they are drinking. 

Get a book like Raising Beef Cattle by Heather Thomas Smith,  it is one of the Storey  Publication books.  Tractor Supply usually has some.  Good general info.

We do both loose trace mineral and the red trace salt blocks in our mineral feeders.  Have a couple of cows that aren't big on the loose and the blocks also help the ones that want to knock the mineral out of the feeder.   Put it out there and they will self limit themselves.  Yes, do not put it right near the water, had 3 cows one time get salt poisoning when they decided to gorge themselves on some loose salt.  So, we never feed just salt to them.  The mineral usually doesn't taste so inviting and it is what will limit what their intake is.  The blocks will limit them just because they can't get too much at a time since it takes time and effort to lick them.

Most will eat grass over hay any time there is fresh grass to eat.  Don't worry about it.
Alfalfa is not necessary for beef cattle as the protein is very rich.  Heifers will get too fat on it if fed in any amount.  It will help cut the costs of grain in the winter and is a good feed for keeping up condition in winter but if they are not lactating, they pretty much don't need feed that rich.  You don't want them to get roly poly fat unless you are going to be sending them to butcher.

Are you planning to eat either of these?  You said you wanted to raise some cattle for beef.  I would suggest that if you want beef for your freezer, then a steer or 2 would be the way to go.  You are looking at about another year for the older one to have a calf, then another 12-18 months before it is ready to eat if that is your plan.  
If there is anyone near you that you know, try to get some practical experience with cows that are calving because having your first calf out of a heifer is not something a newbie should be doing.  It is hard enough to let a cow have a calf that is already an experienced mother, but heifers calving can be a trying experience.  If you can work with or around some that are calving, then at least you can get an idea of what is to be expected and what to look for and know when to call a vet.

YES find a large animal vet and start a relationship with them while there are no problems with your animals.  Understand that you are going to have to have some kind of catch pen and head chute to contain them when they have to be worked or checked.  An animal that is hurting or sick will not just stand there and let you walk up to them in a field.  

I would suggest a small catch pen that you do all the feeding in so that they are comfortable coming into it and then when you have to contain them, you just shut the gate.  From there it is easier to get them into a head catch or chute of some kind.  Once they get to where they associate you with feed, they will come when they see you or you call them and that is the easiest way to work cattle.  Let them come to you, not you have to chase them.

None of this is meant to be negative.  Everyone has to start somewhere.  We run alot of cows and raise our own heifers up and calve out about 20 heifers a year besides our mature cattle.  Have been doing this for 40+ years.  Everything that can go wrong will at some point in time.  But if you can get some experience with someone local,... offer to be free help if they will teach you.... then you will know what to look out for and at least know when you are in over your head and know when you need to call someone.  Yes, my vet is on my phone and he still gets called.


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## RollingAcres (Jul 24, 2017)

farmerjan said:


> Are you planning to eat either of these?  You said you wanted to raise some cattle for beef.  I would suggest that if you want beef for your freezer, then a steer or 2 would be the way to go.  You are looking at about another year for the older one to have a calf, then another 12-18 months before it is ready to eat if that is your plan.
> If there is anyone near you that you know, try to get some practical experience with cows that are calving because having your first calf out of a heifer is not something a newbie should be doing.  It is hard enough to let a cow have a calf that is already an experienced mother, but heifers calving can be a trying experience.  If you can work with or around some that are calving, then at least you can get an idea of what is to be expected and what to look for and know when to call a vet.
> 
> None of this is meant to be negative.  Everyone has to start somewhere.  We run alot of cows and raise our own heifers up and calve out about 20 heifers a year besides our mature cattle.  Have been doing this for 40+ years.  Everything that can go wrong will at some point in time.  But if you can get some experience with someone local,... offer to be free help if they will teach you.... then you will know what to look out for and at least know when you are in over your head and know when you need to call someone.  Yes, my vet is on my phone and he still gets called.



@farmerjan and @WyndSyrin Thank you very much for your advice and info.
@farmerjan I completely understand none of it is meant to be negative. I'm here to learn, and with learning you learn about the good and the bad.
And yes we are raising these for beef but might try to breed them first. Like you said, we have another year or so before the older one is ready to have a calf. That will give us time to really learn and get some experience. Of course the best learning is hands on experience like you suggested.

@WyndSyrin they both will now come near me. The younger calf is still getting use to it. She would follow the older one when the older one comes near me.


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## farmerjan (Jul 24, 2017)

WHEN i was saying about the time frame for a beef, I was assuming that if you bred the older heifer then you would be eating her calf not her.  Once she gets up to 2-2 1/2 and calves then raises the calf, she will be going on 3.  They are more tender and tasty at the 18-30 month range.  Once they calve, it seems that the tenderness drops and the steaks and such just don't always have the same tenderness.  Ground beef and other cuts are okay.  But once they have a calf, and do a good job of raising it, you are going to be that much more attached ( besides she is your first cow)  and killing for beef will be far from your thoughts.  The younger one could be beef, but let me advise to not keep one cow by its self if at all possible.  They are herd animals, and do better with some of their own for company.

If you are thinking to calve her at 2 or shortly there after, you will have to be considering getting her bred at 15-18 months.  That's 6 or so months from now.  And you will have to have a place to catch her up so that you can have her bred A I  or else then you get into the whole thing of a bull and that will be a pain because the smaller heifer will be big enough to also be coming in heat but still too young to safely be bred and so then you have to deal with that.  If you take her to say the former owners if they have a bull, or to someone else, then you have to deal with the transportation, and boarding while being bred and what if she doesn't take.....

Alot to think about.


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## RollingAcres (Jul 25, 2017)

@farmerjan Yes, the plan is to breed the older heifer and eat her calf, that's our plan. Thank you for the info on the tenderness change after they calf, we are not aware of that part.
About the herd animals part, we are aware of it, that's why when we got the older heifer, we looked for and got the younger heifer around the same time, so that there are 2 of them.
More questions for you: We are planning on breeding the older heifer but know that we can't just keep breeding her. What is the norm of breeding a heifer? And say after breeding her a couple of times, by then she would be around 5 and would not be as tender as you mentioned. At that time do we keep her around as a companion?


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## greybeard (Jul 25, 2017)

RollingAcres said:


> More questions for you: We are planning on breeding the older heifer but know that we can't just keep breeding her. What is the norm of breeding a heifer? And say after breeding her a couple of times, by then she would be around 5 and would not be as tender as you mentioned. At that time do we keep her around as a companion?


Why can't you "just keep breeding her"? (unless it is the tenderness aspect)
I've had several that kept producing calves for over 8-10 years. 
I like to breed heifers at closer to 20 months than 12-14 months.  
I'm not much on keeping anything other than wife and dogs around just as companions. Everything else has to pull it's weight.


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## RollingAcres (Jul 25, 2017)

greybeard said:


> Why can't you "just keep breeding her"? (unless it is the tenderness aspect)



Didn't want her to be a breeding machine.


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## farmerjan (Jul 25, 2017)

A beef cow is designed to produce a calf every year.  That is their job.  
And to clarify, ANY  animal that  gets over 3-4 years old will get tougher.  The meat comes from the muscles, that is what you eat, and it gets tougher with age.  Steers, heifers, cows, it wasn't meant that calving would make her meat tough, just that she would be getting older and they get tougher.

 Back to the producing a calf every year.  For any real farmer that is in the business, a cow has to produce a calf yearly in order to justify the expense of keeping her.  Okay, so you are not a full time farmer....BUT, it still costs the same to keep her for the year whether you get a calf or not. So if you go 2 years between calves then that calf costs twice what a yearly calf costs,  but you will not get twice the price for  it  if you sell it..... so that means it is costing you twice as much to get that calf.  Besides that, if a cow is not kept on a somewhat regular schedule of producing a calf, she will get fat and then will be a non-breeder and then where are you?   She is then worth about $.70 per pound as a cull cow because she will go to slaughter for hamburger.....  Or you will have some very costly hamburger in your freezer.   Which is fine if you want 2-300 lbs of hamburger.  Believe me , calving yearly is what they do, what they really are best at, and when they quit doing that, they "have a big Mac attack" .
Greybeard is right.  Cows produce for years.  I have several now that are pushing 16 and still producing a calf.  We don't keep cows past their productive life as a rule.  Have retired a couple ove the  40 years we have been doing this, and they died on the place, but that is the exception.  "Lawn Ornaments " cost too much to feed.
I usually try to breed my heifers at about 17-20 months also, as I like them to have a little more size and growth so that when they are calving at 26-30 months, they are a little more mature and have better instincts about raising a calf.  The "NORM " according to the cattle industry is calving at 24 months.... but some of us aren't "normal".  

The cow carries for 9 months m/l... So you breed her at say 18 months....she calves at 27 months..  then at approx 2-3 months in lactation,  you breed back the cow  back and she gets pregnant and then when the calf is about 7-9 months, you wean it and the cow has about 2-3  months "dry " period which is her rest and when the calf does the greatest amount of growing inside, then she calves again.  The cow has 2-3 months of just feeding the calf, then gets pregnant, then gets a rest period before calving again.  YOU HAVE TO WEAN THE CALF and give the cow a break and her body has to have time to make colostrum for the new calf when it is born.  

There are variations but this is the basic idea.  By the time the  calf is weaned, it will be eating grain, hay and grass as the cow's milk will be declining and then it will be easier on her body to dry up.  The cow should not be getting any grain after the calf reaches about 5 months so her milk production will fall off.  We do not routinely feed any grain except to our "grandma " group of old cows in the winter so they keep their weight and can make milk to feed their calves.  We feed a little grain  just as an incentive to get our cows to come to call and to be able to get them in the pens when we have to catch them up.
The calf should be eating good when it is weaned.  Yes they will moo and carry on for each other but they will get over it.  Lasts about a week.


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## RollingAcres (Jul 26, 2017)

I truly appreciate everyone taking the time to share with me your experience and knowledge. I know I'm new to all this and I have a lot to learn, that's why I'm here. Everyone has to start some where and I'm glad I have a nice group of people to help me!


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## RollingAcres (Jul 27, 2017)

Here they are


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## Alaskan (Jul 27, 2017)

They look great!


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## Baymule (Jul 27, 2017)

Nice looking cows!


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## RollingAcres (Jul 28, 2017)

Alaskan said:


> They look great!


Thank you!


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## RollingAcres (Jul 28, 2017)

Baymule said:


> Nice looking cows!


Thank you!


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