# I need help with an age and much more...



## punkgirrl (Jul 13, 2010)

This is Winnie. I have no clue how old she is to be able to know how to feed her. I have never had goats before and got this cute girl. 





She has teeth on the bottom of her mouth. Do you have any guess on how old she may be? I was told her mom was killed and she needed care. That is all the info I have on her.
Thanks for any help


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## Roll farms (Jul 13, 2010)

She's a Boer x Swiss breed cross (if you're interested in breed) and looks to be anywhere from a few days to a few weeks old.

The ear tag looks like she came from a sale barn, possibly?  (I know it's a scrapie tag, but I've only seen them in little kids at the sale barn...)
Keep an eye on her for diarrhea, if she gets the poops, give her Neomycin Sulfate or Scour Halt (both available at TSC and other farm stores), for 3 days.

I would offer her whole milk (Vitamin D) in a bottle...she should eat 8-12 oz 3 x a day, gradually increasing as her appetite increases, until around 3 mos. of age...

Get a medicated GOAT feed and start offering her about a handful per day.  You need to throw away any leftover and give her fresh daily...increase the amount (once she starts eating it) gradually, up to about 1/3 cup 2 x a day.  Once she's weaned you can give her more, if she starts getting fat, cut back a little.

Offer her grass or grass / alfalfa hay now.

Keep an eye out for anemia (pale eyelids) / worm issues, and it probably wouldn't hurt to treat her for cocci in a few weeks.

She should be give a CD&T vaccine (a vet can sell you one, or you can buy an entire bottle at TSC).  She will need a booster shot 3 weeks later.

Good luck.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 13, 2010)

Wow I did not know she was that young!
She is not wanting to take a bottle at all. If I have tried a few ways to get her to like it do I just hold her on it when she hates it. I have only been able to get her to take 4oz this last feeding.
She is for real in my backyard so I have a good amount of grass. Can she eat this? She has been and I hope I am not killing her. She has T&A for hay. Her poop is looking good it is staying in small balls. She also has fresh water is that ok?
I am sorry for not doing my reading before getting the goat but she was to cute and I was pretty sure she would have been eaten. I felt she was to cute for that.

I am not sure what a sale barn is.... I got her at a farm auction. So I have little info. I was told the mom and sister where killed and I melted.

Thank you so so much for your help!


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## glenolam (Jul 13, 2010)

She is definitely a cute girl!  Now that you have one, you should really look into getting her a friend about the same age - either another doe or a wether (neutered male).  NOT a buck as he could impregnante her at a very early age.

Do you have a place to house her outside?

There's tons of info on this site to review and don't be afraid to ask questions!

Have fun and good luck!

ETA - You posted as I was writing.  It's OK if she's eating grass, but make sure she has hay 24/7.  Is she drinking the water?  It may be that she's weaned already.  A Vitamin B 12 or B Complex shot would help stimulate her appetite if she's not eating well.  You should really get her some goat feed as Roll Farms mentioned as well.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 13, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> She is definitely a cute girl!  Now that you have one, you should really look into getting her a friend about the same age - either another doe or a wether (neutered male).  NOT a buck as he could impregnante her at a very early age.
> 
> Do you have a place to house her outside?
> 
> ...


I have goat feed for her. She loves it! I am not sure how much she has eaten as she is a bag of bones and I was letting her eat as much as she wanted.
I have a make shift house till I can make something for her. I call it her day condo.




She slept last night on the back porch. She was not planned. I just saw her and fell in love.

Oh as for a friend I borrowed a goat from my Aunt and turns out that it is nuts! Not friendly at all to me or the goat. The loaner goat is a giant compared to the baby and it was just weaned.


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## cmjust0 (Jul 13, 2010)

punkgirrl said:
			
		

> Wow I did not know she was that young!
> She is not wanting to take a bottle at all. If I have tried a few ways to get her to like it do I just hold her on it when she hates it.


She hates it, but she probably needs it...  And the reason she hates it, btw, has a little something to do with the reason she was sold -- because her mama's no longer with us.  That indicates she was being dam-raised until her mama died.  Goats that have been dam raised are notoriously hard to switch to bottles.

My advice to you would be to try this nipple and an old-school, thick glass soda bottle.  A longneck beer bottle might work, too, though they're a little thinner these days than the old 'bottle-opener-required' Pepsi and Coke bottles were.

As for that particular nipple, I dunno why it is, but kids seem to take those more readily than others..  And the purpose of using a thick glass bottle is because it will hold the temperature of the milk longer than a plastic soda bottle or baby bottle..  If you pre-heat the bottle by letting it sit full of hot tap water while you heat your milk, that'll go a long way toward keeping the milk warm...which gives you more time to duke it out with her.

Another trick you might try to employ is to sit in a chair and put her head under the back of your knee, and THEN shove the bottle in her mouth as best you can..  That will effectively hide the fact that it's a bottle, and plus she'll have the familiar feel of something warm above her head while she nurses...just like mama's belly was.

Oh...someone should probably also tell you to heat the milk, if you hadn't tried that already.    I usually get mine up to about 105*, at which point I'll dump the hot tap water out of the glass bottle and fill'er up with milk.  The nipple will pop right down on the glass bottle.  

Just keep fighting with her.  Realistically, you may never get her to take a bottle....but then again you may.  If you can, it will certainly have been worth the effort.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 13, 2010)

Thank you all for the advice. I made the bottle a little warmer and she took 3oz in one sitting with just a small fight. I will try to get a few more in her before bed time.
Her belly feels the fullest since I have sen her. Still pooping normal. I am trying to come up with a plan for her soon to be new house and toys. 
I think her teeth look funny but I will save that for in the morning. 
Thank you all so much for all the help.

This was the day condo I tried to post before


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## Roll farms (Jul 13, 2010)

Farm auction, sale barn, swap = all not what I'd call the ideal place to buy your first goat, BUT...now that you've got her, if you get / keep her on the right track w/ good care, there's no reason she can't be a great goat.


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## mossyStone (Jul 14, 2010)

Goats hate to be alone, you might want to get her a buddy,  they do so much better with a friend.

 She sure is a cutie, good luck with  her!

Mossy Stone Farm


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## glenolam (Jul 14, 2010)

The goat you borrowed as a buddy probably dislikes you and your new baby for a good reason - he/she isn't home with his/her own herd.  With time, that will go away, but if you want a lifetime companion for your new baby you should look for one closer to her age.  Good for you for at least getting her a temorary buddy!

A good sized dog house or even a shed will do fine for her as a house (assuming you only end up with 2 total [let's see that happen!  ]).  My husband built himself a nice shed in the backyard, which turned into the chicken house, which turned into the chicken/goat house!  You could even buy one of those metal sheds from Wal-Mart or Home Depot for $200 - you'll just have to reinforce the walls a little because goats will climb in/on/around/up/down anything they can!

Keep your eyes peeled for free kids outdoor toys like the little tykes climbers.  I have two in my goat's pen and they love it!  They like to slide down the slide and crawl through the holes.  I also put several stumps together of different heights so they can play king of the mountain.



			
				Roll farms said:
			
		

> Farm auction, sale barn, swap = all not what I'd call the ideal place to buy your first goat, BUT...now that you've got her, if you get / keep her on the right track w/ good care, there's no reason she can't be a great goat.


She said it all right there.  With good maintenance and care, she'll be a great goat!  Just remember to treat her with a coccidia treatment, give her a CD&T shot and watch her grow!

Oh - also, giving her as much grain as she can eat might be a good way to have her put on some pounds _for now_, but you'll want to start restricting that and letting her fill up on good quality hay so she doesn't get sick from too much grain.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 14, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Farm auction, sale barn, swap = all not what I'd call the ideal place to buy your first goat, BUT...now that you've got her, if you get / keep her on the right track w/ good care, there's no reason she can't be a great goat.


I want nothing more than for her to be happy and health. I know how I got her was not ideal and now I am hoping I do not kill her. She had 3 more oz of milk this morning. It is like we hit a wall at 3oz. She even gave me a small wag of the tail when see saw/felt the nipple. I got the best result with the under the leg way. 
I am still trying to find her a friend. But I am not sure how to find a friend or what to pick. The 5 month old goat I got from my Aunt wants nothing to do with my little girl.


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## glenolam (Jul 14, 2010)

If you can keep the 5 month old, it will just take time for them to get used to eachother.

If you want to get a new goat all together, do a search for goat farmers in your area (where are you from?  there's people from all over the US here so maybe someone here has a kid to sell) or search on craigslist.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 14, 2010)

glenolam I can keep the 5 month old goat. I was just not sure if they would make friends. I would like that better than bottle feeding another goat. But I am willing to do anything for this little girl. I am good with a heard of 2 if they will be. When I saw the size difference of the 2 goats I got scared the older one would hurt the baby.


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## glenolam (Jul 14, 2010)

They just need time to figure it all out.  Give your new little girl places to hide when the older goat gets bossy.

Read this thread to hear about my experience with my wether who was 1 when his sisters were born this year.  He did not like them at all, but now they get along just fine.

I have a pygmy doeling who's 4 mo old and she gets the worst of all the goats because she's the smallest and weakest.  She's learned who to stay away from and who is safe, but also has plenty of places to hide if everyone gangs up on her.  We've even seen her stand up to our 6yr old Nubian/Alpine doe (talk about size difference!) AND cuddle up next to the same doe!  They all just need time to figure eachother out and decide who's in charge.

Is the 5 mo old a boy or a girl?  If it's a boy, is he wethered?  If not, you'll definitely want to wether him soon so he doesn't impregnate your little one.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 14, 2010)

No they are both girls. At least I got one thing right 
Both of them are not calling much at all now. So I am hoping that is good. 
right after I get done reading your post I will make her a hiding hole.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 14, 2010)

She drank almost 6oz for lunch! I am so excited. I think she has me trained on how she likes to drink from the bottle. She even gave me a tail shake when eating.
Again thank you all for the help!
The Older goat is now hold up in the chicken coop.


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## glenolam (Jul 14, 2010)

Awww - your older goat looks like an Alpine.  They do own you more than you own them.  You'll enjoy them a lot - don't be afraid to post quesitons here; a lot of people are here to help!


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## punkgirrl (Jul 14, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> Awww - your older goat looks like an Alpine.  They do own you more than you own them.  You'll enjoy them a lot - don't be afraid to post quesitons here; a lot of people are here to help!


LOL you asked for it.

I wanted to know when I could give her the Ivermectin and in what way I should give it to her. Keep in mind I have never given a shoot in my life. She has lice/mites on her. I have dusted her with 7dust just to keep them from eating her alive but I want them dead dead!

I had a rabbit with mites and gave them Ivermectin Paste 0.21 oz (6.08 grams) it is a horse meds that is flavored like apple. Is this something to use? My feed store told me to use Safe-gaurd for worms. Can they be used together?


Also the older one. I think she might need her feet done but she is so freaked out. How long should I let her settle down before I get someone to look at them?

I also have names. The small on is Winnie and the big one is Poo. So Winnie and Poo


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## cmjust0 (Jul 14, 2010)

punkgirrl said:
			
		

> She drank almost 6oz for lunch! I am so excited. I think she has me trained on how she likes to drink from the bottle. She even gave me a tail shake when eating.


Hopefully, she'll be hittin' that bottle like a speedbag before ya know it.


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## glenolam (Jul 14, 2010)

Cute names!

Read here to read up on someone's current problem with lice and worms.

This is a great link to hoof trimming - it includes links to videos and all!

Don't forget the CD & T shot, too.  

If you search for these terms with the search option on this forum, you'll find many more explanations, too.


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## cmjust0 (Jul 14, 2010)

punkgirrl said:
			
		

> I had a rabbit with mites and gave them Ivermectin Paste 0.21 oz (6.08 grams) it is a horse meds that is flavored like apple. Is this something to use? My feed store told me to use Safe-gaurd for worms. Can they be used together?


Ivomec is OK for her, though I'm not terribly familiar with the paste forms for a horse.  I can tell you that the dosage I personally use (I give the injectable form orally) comes out to be 10mg of ivermectin per 25lbs of bodyweight.  If you feel confident that you can dose the horse paste out correctly to hit somewhere around that dosage level, I would *think* it would be OK to use.

There's a bit of debate on whether oral ivermectin works on external parasites.  I dunno for sure what the answer is, and if I'm treating strictly for externals, I usually inject it...but I will say that I'm inclined to believe that at a high enough dose (and 10mg/25lbs is a high dose), it will at least work on lice.

Mites?  I'm up in the air on that...but lice, I'd say it probably will.

And, she'll most likely get a mild to moderate deworming out of the deal, which she probably needs anyway.


Oh, and here's something I hadn't thought of to ask, though it seems a patently obvious question in terms of age determination now that it's finally popped into my apparently tiny peabrain...._how much does she weigh?_

She was one of twins (not trips, nor a single), and was on her mama's side right up until you got ahold of her, so she should have been growing appropriately up until that point...knowing her weight would almost certainly give us a MUCH better idea of how old she actually is.  Since they look pretty much like smaller versions of adults from the time they're maybe a week old, pictures -- unfortunately -- are rarely helpful with the age guessing game..  :/

And, of course, if we can approximate her age a bit better, we can almost certainly get a MUCH better idea of how much milk she should be taking right now, plus when she might need C/D-T, coccidia prevention, etc..

Seriously...I dunno why I didn't think to ask that, but I totally flaked on it.   



> Also the older one. I think she might need her feet done but she is so freaked out. How long should I let her settle down before I get someone to look at them?


Well, some of mine freak out WHEN I try to look at their feet, sooooo..    I'd say just whenever she's being a normal goat...eating, drinking, peeing, and pooing ok, etc...I'd say she's ready to be tortured a bit.





> I also have names. The small on is Winnie and the big one is Poo. So Winnie and Poo


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## punkgirrl (Jul 14, 2010)

She was just under 5lbs on the 12th. 
But now I have a new worry. Can I pick her up to much? I do not want to hurt her ribs.
She was a twin I was told at the auction house her mom and sister had been killed. But that is all the info I had on her.
If it is ok to keep picking her up I can see is she put on any weight.


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## jodief100 (Jul 14, 2010)

5 lbs on the 12th, my guess is less than a week old.  I have boer's bigger than that on their birthday.  I doubt you can pick her up too much if you do it gently.


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## cmjust0 (Jul 14, 2010)

FIVE POUNDS?!?  WOW...   

She's a _baby_ baby...the smallest kid we had born this year was 5.5lbs _at birth_, and she was one of triplets -- and a dairy breed at that.  Normally, you're looking at the 7-8lb range for twins, at birth.  We've had two that were in the 10lb range this year, straight out of mama.

I wouldn't doubt this one has actually _lost_ weight since birth, given she's obviously a boer cross.  Mama must have died right away.  

Ok, so...we're proceeding with a newborn, basically..  Possibly a newborn who got no colostrum...that's not optimal, but it happens sometimes.  I have a couple that got no colostrum, and they're A-OK.  

At 5lbs, for her to have taken 6oz of milk at lunch today was absolutely, positively AWESOME.  That's about all one could be expected to take in a single feeding at that age/weight, so you're doing *great*.  

Ok, so...the plan from here on out, now that we have a better idea of what we're dealing with..

As for feeding volumes, Roll Farms can probably give you a better estimate on what to offer her..  Thankfully, I haven't bottle fed in a while now and I'm blessedly fuzzy on the feeding amounts.    She bottlefeeds everything, though...about as expert at it as a person gets.

As for meds/shots/worming/etc...if I were you, I'd wait maybe another week and give her a first C/D-T shot, and booster with another shot about 4wks after that.  In about 2-1/2 weeks, I'd start her on a week of DiMethox as a preventative for coccidia.  

The DiMethox I use is the 40% injectable...I would say order it from Jeffers, but they're on indefinite backorder right now.  I actually just ordered another bottle of it from PBS animal health, but Valley Vet carries it too...and Hoegger Goat Supply...

Dosage I use for it is 1ml/15lbs 1x/day for 5 days, with the treatment started at 3wks and repeated every 3wks until 9wks of age.  Some folks start at 3wks and go for 7 days, then give 1ml/wk after that until weaning -- I personally don't like that protocol since dimethox is technically an antibiotic and I don't want to underdose and select for resistant bugs, etc...but whatever.  

Bottom line, though -- you'll want to get her on a coccidia prevention program.

As for deworming...at 5lbs...she's almost certainly too young to need deworming right now, as I doubt she's done much grazing at this point.  And what grazing she has done was probably on the clean grass in your backyard.

WORM THE 5MO OLD, though!!  She's almost certainly shedding barberpole eggs in your backyard as we speak, so when the kid starts grazing...they'll be there waiting for her to get infested.  But again, I doubt the baby's done much in the way of grazing, and that's how they pick up worms.  Seriously, if I were you, I'd give the older doe the ivermectin paste if you're unsure at all about her worm status...or even if you are sure about it!   

Speaking of dewormers, though, something else to think about right now is possibly going ahead and ordering a dewormer....and needles, syringes, and stuff like that to come in with your DiMethox.  Perhaps some good fortified b-complex, which is sometimes hard to find locally..  Stuff like that..

I'm sitting here trying to think of the stuff we routinely recommend people "go get" DESPITE the fact that it *almost always* has to be ordered...like DiMethox.  I know there's other stuff like that....BioMycin comes to mind, but she's a baby so regular ol' Penicillin would be better anyway and can be found locally....

Maybe someone will help me out and give you some good suggestions...I'm never good at filling out orders to livestock supply houses.  

 

But...just WOW...5lbs...I woulda guessed way bigger from the pictures!

Oh...as for picking her up..  Go for it.    They're physically tough.  Physi_ologically_, perhaps not so much...kinda fragile in the 'innards' department with respect to parasites and bacteria and protozoans and so forth...but their _bodies_ are tough and rugged and quite durable.  You're not going to hurt her by picking her up.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 14, 2010)

So up to 8.2lbs today!!

I have a table and chairs set up by places she likes to eat grass. I hope it makes her feel like legs.
I can pick the baby up so I can get on a scale with her but how do I find out how much the bigger one weighs?


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## cmjust0 (Jul 14, 2010)

With dairy goats, you can get a 'weight tape' that works reasonably well by measuring around the heart girth and then comparing it to an inches-to-pounds chart.  That's only for dairies, though, and it's by no means an accurate reading.

Meat goats, and dairy/meat crosses...if you don't have a scale thats practical, you usually just have to guestimate.  We guestimate, as does our vet for the most part.  

Awesome that the baby's gaining well already!  Those are HUGE GAINS for just a few days...she's probably making up for a little lost time.  





			
				punkgrrl said:
			
		

> I have a table and chairs set up by places she likes to eat grass. I hope it makes her feel like legs.


I love this idea, btw..  

Kids like going under stuff anyway, so even if it doesn't make her feel like she's out with the adults, she'll appreciate the cover...and the shade, too, if it's hot.  

Really neat idea.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 15, 2010)

She woke up just so cute this morning.


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## Calliopia (Jul 15, 2010)

She's adorable! Just wanted to chime in and say that she's lucky to have found you.


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## glenolam (Jul 15, 2010)

You're doing a great job!  How 'bout Poo?  Is she doing better?


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## punkgirrl (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for the support! It means so much. I feel so out of my element. I am used to having information before getting a new pet. I hope I do right by them!

As for Poo I got her some Ivermectin and trying to find a friend to do the shoot for the CD&T. I am such a wuss. I have not been able to pet her yet but she thought about eating food out of my hand. I am not going to push her. She has had a bad few days with the move and all. I think she is bounding with my chickens. Who by the way are having a field day in my flowers.  I am getting the ginger snap cookies for a bribe today.

Question about Winnie's food in take: She is still not loving the bottle only the one big feeding the rest have been around 3ozs. Should I limit her water or hard food intake to make more room for milk? Right now she gets both goat food and water freely.


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## glenolam (Jul 15, 2010)

I can't answer for the milk intake question, but I would think that if she's eating, pooing, peeing and gaining weight I'd say she's OK.

As for Poo - treats are OK, but try to stick to grain as a way to entice her.  Too much of anything isn't good, so if you do want to still bribe her with treats, try raisins or little peices of bread.  She'll get used to you in time.

You can do the shot!  I am a wuss, too, but now I have no problem sticking the little suckers with needles!  search on this forum for how to give a shot and you'll learn the different places, the "tent" method and much more.

It's very quick and easy!


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## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

At that age/weight, they wouldn't normally be all that interested in grain...could be she was basically forced to learn early.  Also, I don't leave grain out free choice anyway, for anyone.  

If it were me, I would probably restrict the grain to maybe a couple of small feedings a day and see if that improves her appetite for milk.  If so, great...if not, and she just kinda plateaus out and stops gaining...then grain may be the only way she's gonna get by.  

But she'd get far more benefit out of the milk than she would grain, if you can get her to do that.

I don't know if we've covered this or not, but what milk are you giving her?  Is she on whole cow's milk from the store, goats' milk from another source, powdered kid milk replacer, ...?


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## punkgirrl (Jul 15, 2010)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> I don't know if we've covered this or not, but what milk are you giving her?  Is she on whole cow's milk from the store, goats' milk from another source, powdered kid milk replacer, ...?


She is on Whole cows milk and evaporated milk with vitamin D. I am not sure this is best for her but I do not have a goat to get milk from and what I read about floppy goat and the replacer scared me on that. So like everything else I will take advice. Oh I was thinking for getting butter milk to add to the mix but not sure if a change would be good for her.

And side question. My feed store did not have Di-Methox can I wait to mail order it or do I need it asap?


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## glenolam (Jul 15, 2010)

You can mail order it and it will take a week or so to come in.  While you're on-line it wouldn't hurt to stock up on other things you will and _may_ need like Probios, B Complex or B12, Bo-Se, CD&T, needles/syringes, Ivomec for deworming (but you may not need this in the event your fecal samples come out "clean"), Nutridrench...the list can go on and on.

Also good to keep on hand (as I found from personal experience) is Mineral Oil (to help them pass anything bad in their bowl), Karo Syrup or Molasses (which gives them a quick picker upper in case they are a little listless), and a rectal thermometer.

My goat medicine cabinet isn't as "full" as CM's is - I keep just about everything in a plastic storage box in the goat barn...the "good" meds are kept in my kitchin in a goat-cabinet


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## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

punkgirrl said:
			
		

> She is on Whole cows milk and evaporated milk with vitamin D. I am not sure this is best for her but I do not have a goat to get milk from and what I read about floppy goat and the replacer scared me on that. So like everything else I will take advice. Oh I was thinking for getting butter milk to add to the mix but not sure if a change would be good for her.


I used to make a little concoction by taking a gallon of whole milk, pouring off 20oz, then adding a can of evap, then topping the gallon back off with whole cultured buttermilk.

Kids liked it, and grew well on it.  

They generally like whole milk too, though.  

Since she's on what she's on, I'd just leave it at that for now.  

I really just wanted to see if you were using replacers or not...I've never used them, but we see QUITE A BIT of "My baby's sick!" threads from people using replacers.

So...good job.  



> And side question. My feed store did not have Di-Methox can I wait to mail order it or do I need it asap?


Nah...you're shooting for about 3wks of age to start her on it, so you've got time.  

Time enough, in fact, to browse through all the online mail order supply places websites and put together an order that includes other essentials...needles, syringes, etc.  All the super fun stuff.


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## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> My goat medicine cabinet isn't as "full" as CM's is - I keep just about everything in a plastic storage box in the goat barn...the "good" meds are kept in my kitchin in a goat-cabinet


My goat medicine cabinet right now is one of the big kitchen base/floor cabinets..  Like, the big single door ones....about 3' wide, with a shelf across the back.  

Shelf's full, bottom's full.  Stuff falls out when you open the door.  



Oh, the butter shelf thing in the door of the door of the fridge belongs to the goats, too..  PenG, Tet antitoxin, Vax, C&D antitoxin, etc..  

And that doesn't count the things I usually leave in the barn...screw worm spray, blu-kote, kopertox, PyThon dust, etc..

I may inventory it one day and post it here...it's gotten ridiculously ridiculous in the last year or so.  Scary part is...I know how to *use* most of that stuff, too.   

We actually had a visitor the other day who knew nothing about goats, but when she saw my goat med cabinet, she said she was coming to OUR HOUSE if we ever entered some kind of post-apocalyptic nuclear holocaust and economic collapse with accompanying zombie invasion or whatever.  We gots MEDS.

We gots guns, too..  ...and gardens...and milk, meat, eggs...and firewood...and a woodstove...

Ironically, for all that preparedness (and/or paranoia  ), I was never even in the Boy Scouts.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 15, 2010)

Great thanks again for the info and I will get the needles 
She has had just under 11 ozs today. I have gone to more feeding times. 7am only 3 ozs
11am 2ish almost 3
1 pm  5ozs
And I got a tail wag side to side at feeding #2 
She is the sweetest goat I have seen. Ok so I have not seen many but oh my goodness is she sweet. Is it ok to pet her head? My Granny(who love old wives tales) said it will make her mean if I pet her horns. Is that real?


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## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

> Is it ok to pet her head? My Granny(who love old wives tales) said it will make her mean if I pet her horns. Is that real?


There's _some_ truth to that, but not really..  What happens is that if you _push_ around on their heads, they learn to push back and it becomes a game..  That's how goats play.

Against humans, they'll always win -- trust me.

You certainly can _pet_ her head, though.    EDIT...our goats love it when you scratch their cheeks.  They're prey animals, so they're naturally skitty and their field of vision is *almost* 360*.  Areas they can't see include directly behind them, and the tops of their heads.  If you keep your hands where an unfamiliar goat can see what you're doing, they're usually more at ease.  

Speaking of horns...something we should probably discuss is the option of disbudding your new goat.  If you don't want her to have horns -- and there are good arguments for/against horns -- she's probably still small enough to be disbudded at this point.

If you're not familiar with the process, you basically take a tool called a _disbudding iron_ and burn rings around her horn "buds," which basically cauterizes the blood vessels flowing to them, which prevents the horn cells from growing.  In a few days, the ring/bud dries up..  In a few weeks, it pops off..  Regular skin grows back over...voila -- no horns.

Look into it.  If her horn buds aren't too advanced at this point, it could probably still be done.  We kinda sorta forgot about one of ours and he just got done last night at 10 days/18lbs.  Not optimal, but still do-able.

Just a thought.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 15, 2010)

On the horns I was thinking of letting them grow. The reason being is I live in south FL and I read the horns can help keep them cool. But I am not a 100% yet SO says they are scary. Poo(the other goat) has horns so I wanted it to be fair. I will decide by Saturday and have it done then as well. But as it stands now she will keep them.

cmjust0 about the play pushing she rubs on my leg with her body. Is this something a good goat would do?
On her face she likes me rubs her ears like she was a dog. I am not pushing on her... well am I?


Oh and thank you guys!!! I am sure you think I have had some odd questions.

And did you know they have a coat for a goat. OMG


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## glenolam (Jul 15, 2010)

punkgirrl said:
			
		

> And did you know they have a coat for a goat. OMG


Yep - I actually put my kids in my son's baby clothes because they were born in early spring and I didn't want them to get a chill. 

With regards to the pushing - I have one kid who's now 4 mos and 1 week old.  No matter what I'm doing she's standing up on my legs, jumping on my back (don't get me started on how her sister does it at the same time now - 2 4mo old alpine/nubian/nigerian doelings on my little back sure doesn't cut it like it used to!), nibbling my clothes...

If it gets too much for you, keep a squirt bottle handy.  Some say that works well to teach your goats what is and what isn't acceptable.

Work with Poo as well and keep the two together as much as you can.  I know that Winnie needs more attention and care right now, but if you spend ALL your time fixating on Winnie and leave Poo out, it'll take longer for her to get used to you and Winnie. (I do just love their names!)



> Oh and thank you guys!!! I am sure you think I have had some odd questions.


You're welcome and, not really....  It's all a part of being a goat owner!


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## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2010)

punkgirrl said:
			
		

> On the horns I was thinking of letting them grow. The reason being is I live in south FL and I read the horns can help keep them cool. But I am not a 100% yet SO says they are scary. Poo(the other goat) has horns so I wanted it to be fair. I will decide by Saturday and have it done then as well. But as it stands now she will keep them.


Good enough.  

I'm not rabidly anti-horn.  We disbud, and we have a couple of horned goats that I wish didn't have horns...but they DO come in handy when it's time to drench/give shots/etc.  And, yeah, when it's really hot, the base of their horns gets really, really warm.  They're obviously radiating heat, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make a whole big bunch of difference..

Maybe, though...dunno.  

Since the other one has them...and she's a meat cross without any really specific purpose at this point...meh.  Why not.





> cmjust0 about the play pushing she rubs on my leg with her body. Is this something a good goat would do?


She's just itching herself.  



> On her face she likes me rubs her ears like she was a dog. I am not pushing on her... well am I?


Nah..  

She likes you, though.  Sounds to me like you're becoming mama.  



> Oh and thank you guys!!! I am sure you think I have had some odd questions.
> 
> And did you know they have a coat for a goat. OMG


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## punkgirrl (Jul 16, 2010)

Mamma is so happy this morning! Winnie came running to me this morning. I have not sent her run yet as she has been so weak. But not this morning I got a run! 
I found out that a flea market has a stall that sells goat products. Should I trust the milk I can get for them or just stay with the mix I am doing?
And I can not thank you all enough! You all have been so helpful and full of information.


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## glenolam (Jul 16, 2010)

IMO - Stay with what you're using.  It seems to be working, so there's really no need to change.  If you do decide to change to real goat's milk, you'll need to do it VERY gradually as any slight change in their diet will mess up their system for a bit afterward (which you'll notice in their poo).  But, then again, I've never had a bottle baby so maybe someone else with this experience will tell you differently.


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## cmjust0 (Jul 16, 2010)

I'd definitely stick with the cow's milk, since she seems to be doing well on it..  Never know...the flea market folks may be milking CAE+ does, or who knows what..

It'd be kinda like bringing a strange goat home in a bottle.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 19, 2010)

Update: 
Oh My Winnie had 5 ozs of milk this morning. Poo has taken food from my hand but will not let me pet her yet. But hey I am closer. They walk around close to each other  Poo is still not happy about being a big sister but I think coming around. 

Winnie teeth look dark in between her teeth. Is this normal? 







Oh I love my goats!


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## cmjust0 (Jul 19, 2010)

I dunno about normal, but they're baby teeth anyway.

On a could-be-related note, I remember asking my vet once if it was actually dangerous or not to use oxytetracycline on a bred doe (they say DON'T DO IT!...but) and he said the worst outcome he'd ever seen is that sometimes a kid will come out with yellow teeth.

Are your gal's teeth yellow?...I dunno, probably an 'eye of the beholder' judgement call.  Some folks might call that yellow.

Could be totally unrelated, though.    And I've never actually examined teeth in my kids, especially the back of the teeth.  So...dunno.

Is she screamy or yawny in that picture?


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## punkgirrl (Jul 19, 2010)

she was yawning. But she is calling for me now  She will get excited to the see the bottle. Poo came up and smelled me without food!!
Who knew they could be so much fun!


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## punkgirrl (Jul 21, 2010)

Winnie ran to me today! She is not putting on the lbs but seems so much stronger. When she came home that 1st day she was not a good walker but now she can run. 
Her and Poo will eat close to each other but Winnie will get out of her way. So look like Poo is the boss. 
The house is being made this weekend and I will be sure to take a pic for you guys. I am sure the chickens will love to have there home back. 

Winnie feels so much stronger to me now. I hope she is out of the woods and will be ok. I took the baby goat over to meet the neighbors and Winnie went to suck his toe. Neighbor said "do not try to perv me out with that goat"


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## Dreaming Of Goats (Jul 21, 2010)

LOL! Can't wait to see Winnie and Poo's new home.....at first I thought you called the bigger goat poo because you didn't like it.....I'm so stupid!


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## punkgirrl (Jul 29, 2010)

Well they are still not getting a long. I think poo is trying to hurt her. I have read that they will need to find the pecking order. So I was trying to give them time. But I also read bottle babies are the lowest on the totem pole. I do not want Winnie to get hurt and Poo is trying to stomp on her. I do not think this is normal.. is it? Poo is also snorting at me, my dogs, my rabbits, and the other goat. Is that ok? She is also stomping at the chickens. Will she ever like it here? Will she hurt Winnie? 





Update on the baby:
She is now shut up cute. She is strong enough to run and has even made a hop.  She is holding at 8lbs. She will only eat 4ozs of milk at a time but like ever 2 hours. 




Yes she is on the back porch she follows the dogs in the doggie door. But it is just for naps


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## glenolam (Jul 29, 2010)

Glad to hear they're doing all right.

You really need to give Poo some more time.  A few days (or weeks!) isn't a lot of time when it comes to goats learning to trust you - some goats take a day, some take months.

Just keep quiet around her, offer her pettings and scratchings, and let her know you're there to take care of her.

Winnie and Poo will need time to get used to each other as well.  Just keep giving Winnie places to hide when Poo gets agressive.


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## punkgirrl (Jul 29, 2010)

And Winnie can almost do a full run. She has gotten so strong. She is not putting on the lbs so taking her to the vet to make sure no bugs or anything. I am a worrier.


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## glenolam (Jul 29, 2010)

Have you treated her for coccidia yet?


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## Araylee (Sep 3, 2010)

I don't know anything about raising bottle babies, but...OH MY GOODNESS she is CUTE! I can totally see why you brought home a new baby even though you weren't planning on it!Glad to hear that she is taking the bottle and gaining weight and running around! All good signs.


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