# Talk to me about saddles



## FlightsofFancy (Jan 17, 2010)

Hi! I am so excited to be able to go from the goats section to the horse section...YIPEEE!! I have been riding for years, but at 39 have decided enough is enough! I am getting my own horse. She is a 10 year old Quarter Horse with tons of trail miles. The previous owners have a saddle club that rides for charities every month. So she is really sweet and accustomed to pretty much everything.
Here is my question......What kind of Western saddle do I get? How do I choose a size (For me?)  I have been riding english for the last couple of years and just don't know anything about western saddles. HELP!


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 17, 2010)

Western Saddles come in 3 basic "frames"

Quarter Horse Bars: designed to fit a traditional Quarter Horse type, medium withers, fairly broad back

Semi-Quarter Horse Bars: designed to fit a taller, narrower animal with bigger withers

Full Quarter Horse Bars: designed to fit "no wither" round, broad-backed horses

Other "bars" are available like Walking Horse bars or Arabian bars for a breed type.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Best bet: ask what type and make of saddle the previous owners used. Saddles vary widely, even by the same manufacturer. I have a friend with a Paint with lots of Thoroughbred breeding that she has been agonizing the last three years trying to find a dressage saddle. Pads make a difference too.

Round skirt or full skirt? Depends on how long or short the horse's back is.

Flexible tree? Good for hard to fit horses or endurance rides where the horse will loose weight while being ridden

Treeless? As above but does not work on all horses and can cause back pain in some. Also, if you're not perfectly balanced, the saddle can and will slip (happened to someone I was on an endurance ride with). I currently use a Bob Marshall treeless Sports Saddle and have had no problems in the last 9 years.

Then there's you. Western saddles range from 14"-18" seats on average. Typicaly a skinny barrel racer will opt for a 14" seat while a hefty calf-roper may want a 18" seat. My husband (6'2", 220lbs) rode in a 16" seat in a high cantle American trail saddle.

You'll also have to get used to western rigging which varies from simple to complex (center-fire rigging). There are adapters for English style if you feel daunted. Have someone show you at the tack store.

As for make ... whatever you want. My husband used an American. A friend of mine uses a custom made trail saddle for her TWH. I've seen people use Circle Y, Abetta, Wintec, Big Horn and all the big names. It just depends on the horse. Ask if you can borrow a saddle before committing.

A saddle that may fit your horse when it is fat in winter may not fit in the summer when the horse is in shape.

A saddle is a major investment. A well-fitting well-made saddle may run over $1,000 but if properly taken care of, will outlive you. I paid $1,000 for my Sports Saddle, but 9 years and thousands of miles later, it has been worth it. 

Or you could just find an English saddle that will fit your horse.

Congrats on your purchase and good luck!

Again, this is just the beginning. We could probably have a whole forum on saddles.


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## lupinfarm (Jan 17, 2010)

One thing to keep in mind, it is HARD to find (at least where I am) a Western ABOVE a 15" seat! I need atleast a 16 or 17" and no one seems to stock them near me. 

Talk to your horses old owner, they'll be able to give you a starting place. I know for a fact that my mare should be in QH bars and I trust her trainers fit, he's a professional, and he cares very much about the fit of his saddles. I'll be looking at getting a Wintec Western if it fits. And don't just take the tack shop owners word for it, if you can find one, get a saddle fitter out. If you can't, find a trainer or someone you TRUST to help you fit. I trust my trainer entirely to fit an english saddle, and I trust Mylie's original trainer to help me with a western saddle. 

But also remember, EVERY SADDLE MAKER IS DIFFERENT. What may fit your horse in a Circle Y may not fit in a Wintec. Try on a few saddles you're interested in and work from there.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 17, 2010)

FWIW

A few sample saddle seat sizes (Western)

Husband: 6'2", 220 lbs used a 16" seat (tried a 17" on a recommendation and didn't like it)

Myself: 5'2", 127 lbs uses a 15" seat

Speed girl at barn: 5'5", 110~ lbs uses a 14" seat

Rancher woman I used to know: 5'8" 150 lbs uses a 16" seat

Buxom western pleasure gal at barn: 5'5" 140~lbs, 16" seat

Lupinfarm: are you in Ontario? Buzz over to Michigan. Lots of 16" and 17" seats.


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## lupinfarm (Jan 17, 2010)

Sure am in Ontario! ... I'm close to the Ganonoque border crossing though!


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## ducks4you (Jan 19, 2010)

After you've found the saddle to fit your HORSE, try it (on a stand) to see if it's comfortable for YOU, too.  The rule of thumb corresponds with price, that is, if the saddle is the right _size_ for you, it's more likely that an expensive saddle will be comfy, and less likely that an cheap saddle will be.  
You can be comfortable in a saddle that's too big for you, but NOT a saddle that's too small........like jeans, ya know.
WARNING:  Buying tack is an ADDICTION!!!!!!!!!!

I'm Sooooooooooo happy-- our local Farm Bureau is planning a used tack auction in March, and I'm taking MOST of my extra bridles, and other extra stuff to get it OUT of my tack room!!!!


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## lupinfarm (Jan 19, 2010)

LOL tell me about it ducks4you!

I test-rode an 18hh belgian mare whose owner used a 14" western saddle.

I'm an 18" english, and would be a 17" or 18" western man that saddle was TIGHT. I thought I was going to lose my crotch at one point, posting in a saddle that is 4 inches too small is awful!

If you just want to trail ride, I'm pretty fond of a good squishy trail saddle in leather, lots of squish! If you can't find one with sufficient enough squish, get a tush cushion. I also happen to adore Wintec Westerns and Abettas.


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 19, 2010)

You guys are giving me great advice! Thank you so much!
I went to a wholesale tack shop today and looked at saddles. Some used and some new. I liked the Big Horn Endurance, Flex Tree, squishy seat. They had it in all leather and in part synthetic. Any feed back on the Synthetic saddles? They seem ok....lighter, no break in period, easy to clean......what are the draw backs?


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## lupinfarm (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh geez, now I've found a saddle!

I've wanted a Wintec for a long time but I couldn't afford one. I just found one online locally for $270 and its the right seat size (17"!!!!!!!!), QH bars, and its chocolate in colour. I'm going to buy it if they still have it!


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## lupinfarm (Jan 19, 2010)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> You guys are giving me great advice! Thank you so much!
> I went to a wholesale tack shop today and looked at saddles. Some used and some new. I liked the Big Horn Endurance, Flex Tree, squishy seat. They had it in all leather and in part synthetic. Any feed back on the Synthetic saddles? They seem ok....lighter, no break in period, easy to clean......what are the draw backs?


I love the synthetic saddles if you get a good quality one. Wintecs are awesome, Abettas are doing pretty good too. I've seen instances of the Bighorn half synthetics where the fenders have come off or ripped. I don't think the bighorn half synthetics are as high quality as the Wintec full synthetics. Because, as it stands, Synthetic is wintecs business.


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 19, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> I love the synthetic saddles if you get a good quality one. Wintecs are awesome, Abettas are doing pretty good too. I've seen instances of the Bighorn half synthetics where the fenders have come off or ripped. I don't think the bighorn half synthetics are as high quality as the Wintec full synthetics. Because, as it stands, Synthetic is wintecs business.


GOOD TO KNOW!!!! Going to look at Wintecs now........


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 19, 2010)

Synthetic straps tend to be stiff, less flexible in cold weather.

I used to own a Bighorn Endurance saddle but sold it after my little Arab mare had a sore back on two endurance rides. The saddle was comfortable for me and was fine on her for shorter rides and walking rides but for some reason it made her back sore on long, fast rides. After I outfitted her with an old battered but serviceable English saddle, she was fine in competition.

FlightsofFancy, does the saddle you're looking at have center-fire rigging? It's kind of complicated and takes awhile to get used to. Wintec has much more straightforward rigging.


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## ()relics (Jan 19, 2010)

....and a proper well fitting saddle pad that feels good under your saddle for both you and your horse...


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 19, 2010)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> After I outfitted her with an old battered but serviceable English saddle, she was fine in competition.
> 
> FlightsofFancy, does the saddle you're looking at have center-fire rigging? It's kind of complicated and takes awhile to get used to. Wintec has much more straightforward rigging.


I am going to look at some Wintecs tomorrow. I am only buying a Western saddle for my husband and kids. I have a nice Stubben Seigfreid .... swoon! I love that saddle and all others seem, well.... :/
 AND YES I would marry it!! hahahaha! jk


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## lupinfarm (Jan 19, 2010)

Oh LOL those silly Stubbens! If only there was a fighting chance one would fit my horse (or my budget!). I'm afraid I'm getting a Wintec All Purpose for Mylie, and I'm passing on the Wintec Western online cause when I emailed the people were kind of rude/weird.


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 20, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> Oh LOL those silly Stubbens! If only there was a fighting chance one would fit my horse (or my budget!). I'm afraid I'm getting a Wintec All Purpose for Mylie, and I'm passing on the Wintec Western online cause when I emailed the people were kind of rude/weird.


I found my Stubben at a resale shop for next to nothin...then restored it. 


OK.....the previous owner of the horse I am getting said she rides this horse in Full QH bars, but she would easily fit Semi QH. 
HUH??? Isn't that kind of specific? <headdesk!> What should I buy?


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## lupinfarm (Jan 20, 2010)

LOL that doesn't make any sense at all. Try all 3 sizes on if you can. Most stores will let you borrow if you leave information with them. You may find your horse just fits in a QH bar, but make sure to try it on first! Number one thing is fit. Find yourself a nice saddle pad too  I really like the Air ride ones but they're out of my budget right now, $209 up here.


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## ducks4you (Jan 20, 2010)

Forgot to mention:  If you get a synthetic saddle, you MUST keep the riggings synthetic, too, or else the oil in the leather will rub off on your synthetic saddle, then on your pants, and will affect your grip on the saddle.    **ducks4you sees an accident waiting to happen!!**
Synthetic saddles require no special upkeep, besides wiping off the dirt with a little soap and water.
LEATHER saddles need to be maintained.  I, myself, LLLOOOVVVEESSS to clean my tack, which is mostly leather.  When I did lessons, I used to clean it ALL en masse with my students.  Then, I'd ask them to label and put all the pieces back on right!  (THAT was fun!!    )  You can use saddle soap, OR, you can wash with oil soap, then rinse clear, then treat--I'm old school, and I love to use Neat's foot oil. (There are some super saddle/bridle oiling products out now, and I'm sure others here use them--they're really good, too. ) I soak my leather with Neatsfoot oil, wipe off the excess, then hang for about *a week *before using.  Neatsfoot oiled leathers will stretch if used wet, and many people believe that it rots out the stitching--I'm not sure about that.  When I sell my extra tack in March, I'll be selling some bridles that are nearly 20 years old, but in EXCELLENT shape, because I never let them dry out like toast.


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## helmstead (Jan 20, 2010)

I abhor synthetic saddles, cordura especially...and will scoff at you if I catch you riding in one hahaha.

My mom bought the Wintec western saddles and...I admit...they weren't horrible...but you won't catch me buying one!

There is just nothing sexier than the smell, patina and feel of a well broken in leather saddle...the creak of a leather western saddle as you mosey down the trail...the wrap-around-your-leg-contour-to-your-horse feel of a much loved huntseat saddle.  Just not going to get that with the fakes!


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## lupinfarm (Jan 20, 2010)

Aww Helmstead you sadden me  see that? TEARS!!

My mum has a bad back and can't lift a leather western but needs a western BECAUSE of her back. Thus... a synthetic is the best option for her. I also find if you have children or the saddle isn't going to be used for much more than trail riding, than a synthetic can be ideal. The OP has what sounds like a beautiful saddle for herself and just wants something like a beat around saddle for the kids/hubby?

I personally am buying a Wintec All Purpose for Mylie and a Wintec Western for her. Anyway, Wintec is owned by Bates 

And ducks4you, some of the more expensive Wintec english saddles have leather billets.


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## helmstead (Jan 20, 2010)

To each his own, of course.  It is merely my humble (no, snobby!) opinion!

My beat around western saddle is a 40 lb Big Horn that I've owned since I was 13.  If I ever get too weak in the back/arms/whatever to lift it...I'll get a shorter horse hahaha.  Even when I was 13, I managed to heave that thing onto the back of my 16.2 hand TB...and have wild fun taking my show hunter for a poles or barrels run or tear through the woods pretending to be the star of The Man from Snowy River 

You CAN find lightweight full leather western saddles...barrel styles, endurance styles...all with less skirting and smaller fenders, smaller swells...


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 20, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I abhor synthetic saddles, cordura especially...and will scoff at you if I catch you riding in one hahaha.
> 
> My mom bought the Wintec western saddles and...I admit...they weren't horrible...but you won't catch me buying one!
> 
> There is just nothing sexier than the smell, patina and feel of a well broken in leather saddle...the creak of a leather western saddle as you mosey down the trail...the wrap-around-your-leg-contour-to-your-horse feel of a much loved huntseat saddle.  Just not going to get that with the fakes!


Then convince your husband to sell me his Billy Cook! You know I love that saddle!   But then again, my husband prolly wouldn't fit in it. :/


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 20, 2010)

helmstead said:
			
		

> You CAN find lightweight full leather western saddles...barrel styles, endurance styles...all with less skirting and smaller fenders, smaller swells...


Find me one! I am tired of looking!


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 20, 2010)

Synergist Saddles sells them. There are some others. My treeless Bob Marshall is leather and only weighs about 11lbs. It does have "dreaded" synthetic leathers and rigging but it is not a traditional western design. Some endurance saddles like Abetta are merely western saddles sans horn.

Go to www.aerc.org (if this is the wrong site, then google American Endurance Ride Conference), HUGE classified section. The people on that site are serious endurance riders and use the lightweight leather saddles.







I know my hands are in the way, but maybe you can see it here.

BTW, we're in the Huron Nat'l Forest near Grayling


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## LauraM (Jan 20, 2010)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> You guys are giving me great advice! Thank you so much!
> I went to a wholesale tack shop today and looked at saddles. Some used and some new. I liked the Big Horn Endurance, Flex Tree, squishy seat. They had it in all leather and in part synthetic. Any feed back on the Synthetic saddles? They seem ok....lighter, no break in period, easy to clean......what are the draw backs?


I have that exact saddle, in the all leather.  I LOVE it. Extremely comfortable and my horse loves it.    However, just so you know, the Big Horn Endurance with the flexible tree does NOT come in a wide tree.  So if your horse is a chunky type of QH, it probably won't work for your horse.  My horse has TB on both sides only two generations back so his build is much more like a TB than a typical QH.  Most people don't think he is a QH.    So this saddle works well for me, but doesn't do well on the more square-built horses.  

Tucker, however, has a couple of very nice endurance saddles that come in wide trees.


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 21, 2010)

FlightofFancy,

we need pics of your horse!!


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## Countrymom (Jan 21, 2010)

I have both.  My synthetics are Abetta and in pretty good shape considering they are well used.  I broke my arm a few years back after a major bronc ride and could not lift my leather saddle.  I also purchased two for my children that have smaller trees and fit ponies.  They have modified their stirrups and added breast collars to help with slipping.  All have been fairly easy to keep clean....just put them on a fence and hose them off.... but they do tend to not wear as well.  I also find you have to cinch up the girths pretty tight to get them to stay put.  Need lots of padding to be comfortable on some horses as well.  Have seen more horses sore in the back from synthetics than leather.   But that is comparing to a high quality leather saddle.   

Now my leather saddles are mainly roping and cutting....so we are talking very heavy.  However, they do not loose their shape or have to be cinched nearly as tightly to keep in place on the horse's back.  They are also a lot more durable for the kind of riding and working we do.  I find my back hurts less in a leather saddle than in a synthetic.  

Brands are important also.  Circle Y saddles about 15 years ago and older were worth something.  From all the company changes I have seen (live 30 minutes from them) and the reports of the operations they have gone through in the past few years, I wouldn't give $2 for one.  Tex Tan is an older saddle maker that still puts out some decent saddles....the heavier working ones.  Can't stand their flextree.  Ugh that was too painful for my back.  They own Action company...aka Abetta.  Double J makes outstanding saddles, but not all trees are perfect for their jobs.....like I would buy a roping or barrle saddle from them. We have a couple of barrel saddles and the Double J is by far the best one for that.  I have a few custom made cutting saddles and would point you to Koen in LA for one any day.  I will probably never part with my CJ Koen saddle.  Amazingly comfortable and has been for many many horses.  Also popular are Ricky Greens...but not a fan of all his styles.  Todd slone has a great rep around here, but I have not tried his saddles.  Jeff Smith has good ones also... that is Cowboy Collection Tack.  Billy Cooks are a dime a dozen down here and most cutters sell them off.  I have ridden in them and they are comfortable, but the one I rode in put you  in the wrong possition.  Could have just been the style.  IN Cutting the tree is extremely important. 

The best way to find a good saddle is to take your horse to the tack shop or manufacturer and try it on the horse.  Then also sit yourself in the saddle.  It has to be comfortable for both.  As much as the synthetics are cheaper and easier to clean, I don't think I will ever buy one again.

Just wanted to add that of all the saddle operations around here... I mean Yoakum, TX...Land of Leather....I find that Double J has the highest quality and reputation.  The reason is that the family that owns them ride their stuff and know their stuff.  If you want the best quality, that is the place to go.  I have several of their pieces besides saddles and wouldn't hesitate to buy more.....and yes they are expensive.  Their family (and it is very large) is well known for integrity and hard work.


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## FlightsofFancy (Jan 21, 2010)

michickenwrangler said:
			
		

> FlightofFancy,
> 
> we need pics of your horse!!


Here she is..."Penny"


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## michickenwrangler (Jan 22, 2010)

I'd try Quarter Horse bars and go from there. She has typical QH back but still has withers.

Keep trying saddles. Also, when you try out a saddle, REALLY RIDE in it. Don't just walk a circle a few times. Walk, trot, canter, back, cavalettis, uphill, downhill, lateral moves, post the trot (even though you're riding western), sit the trot.

The way I knew that my Big Horn endurance didn't fit my little Arab as well as it should is because it rode up on her at a canter and downhill. I was 8 months pregnant when I bought the saddle so I didn't have the balance at the time (I could barely fit in the saddle) to do a whole lot. It wasn't until 2 yrs later I found out


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## LauraM (Jan 23, 2010)

Definitely go up and down hills.  A borderline tight fit may be fine on the flat but could really really annoy the horse going downhill.  And as mentioned, it will slide back and forth on hills.


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## Chickerdoodle13 (Jan 29, 2010)

One word of advice with the wintecs...

They seem to run a bit larger in the trees and they definitely have a lower pommel. I find the wintec fits my mare with nice rounded withers well, but does not fit my gelding who has high bony withers. However, another leather saddle we have with the same size tree fits him perfectly.


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## FlightsofFancy (Feb 16, 2010)

OK so update.....Countdown to pick up Penny....Feb 27th is only 11 days away...

So who was it that recommended the Synergist Saddles? Oh yeah....michickenwrangler!!! You!!! I am totally in love with those saddles!! OMG!!!!!! But a bit outta my range right now so I will have my eyes glued to the resales. And Abetta is having a huge sale right now...so looking at those as a back up. 
 I know! I know, Kate....but seriously! I went and looked at some really nice used westerns, sat in them-NICE! picked them up.......oooooo my aching back!


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## lupinfarm (Feb 16, 2010)

lol FlightsOfFancy, the westerns are awful to pick up aren't they?!

I bought my Wintec but I do still plan on buying a nice used Billy Cook, I'm in LOVE with Billy Cooks... like IN LOVE. They have this huge beautiful one in light oil (which I hate, I like dark oil/chocolate) and it was SO comfortable and the leather was divine. 

But alas, out of my budget for now. lol.


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## michickenwrangler (Feb 16, 2010)

FlightsofFancy said:
			
		

> OK so update.....Countdown to pick up Penny....Feb 27th is only 11 days away...
> 
> So who was it that recommended the Synergist Saddles? Oh yeah....michickenwrangler!!! You!!! I am totally in love with those saddles!! OMG!!!!!! But a bit outta my range right now so I will have my eyes glued to the resales. And Abetta is having a huge sale right now...so looking at those as a back up.
> I know! I know, Kate....but seriously! I went and looked at some really nice used westerns, sat in them-NICE! picked them up.......oooooo my aching back!


That's what coin jars and Christmas are for 

I competed my first two years in a Thorogood synthetic English saddle w/ standard English stirrups. It took me 3 yrs to save enough money for my Bob Marshall Sports Saddle. Worth the investment! Love the saddle!

Start socking away those nickels


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