# Banded Nigerian dwarf, please, please help!



## BabyBonez17 (Jul 15, 2011)

Hello all!
I just picked up a 5 day old (6 days today), Nigerian dwarf goat from a friend. She bought him, kept him one night, and decided she didnt want him.

He has not been dis budded, but he has been banded!
This seems horribly early and i don't want him to have problems with his urethra developing. I have never had a goat before, and i really dont know what to do!
Should i remove the band? Should i leave it? Will removing it now cause problems too?
Im so nervous for my little one, can anyone help?
Also, he follows me everywhere, tells me when he has to pee, and when hes hungry, but i can only get him to take about 3 oz at a time. Waht can i do to temp him to eat a bit more?
Not much, just another two ounces would make me feel a lot better.

Thanks so much!


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## ksalvagno (Jul 15, 2011)

How long ago was the band put on? Is he starting to shrivel already?


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm not sure honestly, the girl i got him from tried to call the original owner back whom apparently had tons of goats, so it seems my baby came from a farm like situation. However the original owner (breeder) didn't answer.
The sac does not seem  shriveled, but when i try and touch it he seems slightly uncomfortable, but does not bleat in pain. I can feel both testes very well in the sac below the band. 
I'm wondering if i should just leave it. I asked a vet i work with today, and he doesn't work large animals anymore, but he did work with them when he was starting out. He said it shouldn't cause a problem, but if i was worried to try and find out more information.
I'm so in love with this little goat and i just want whats best for him. Any further thoughts?

thanks so much!


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## ksalvagno (Jul 15, 2011)

Banding that young, you will have to be very careful with UC. I have to say, if his testicles are still looking full and normal, I would probably cut the band off but with not physically seeing it, I don't want to advise you to do something that at this point maybe shouldn't be done.


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## elevan (Jul 15, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Banding that young, you will have to be very careful with UC. I have to say, if his testicles are still looking full and normal, I would probably cut the band off but with not physically seeing it, I don't want to advise you to do something that at this point maybe shouldn't be done.


I agree with this entire statement.  If it were me I'd cut off the band...but since I'm not there to see it to be sure, you'll have to decide on your own  :/

If you leave it...I wouldn't feed him grain ever...only hay.  And make sure he has loose minerals available with added ammonium chloride.


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 15, 2011)

okay that was my main concern. Here are some pictures. The scrotum is very squishy, so no swelling has occurred either, the testes feel about the size of small jelly beans, with the consistency of peeled grapes, but squishier. 
The skin still feels healthy. If i do remove the band, how should i go about doing so?
Here are some pictures, one of his banded testes, and the other two just to show his size.















Also, I got him to take four ounces for me, and he pees outside for me. However he has only pooped once since i got him last night. No feces today. How often should he poop?

And one last thing (sorry!) he has a very mild sneeze. No discharge, eyes are clear, maybe a little clear snot from nose, but its very thin and very little, only when he sneezes, which is also not often. Should i be worried? Is there anything i can get from the feed store for him to clear it up?

Thank you so very much for your time! It means so much!


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## elevan (Jul 15, 2011)

I had to remove a band once that I accidentally got the teat caught in...I just used a pair of rounded nose scissors like you find in first aid kits to take it off.  Just slipped it between the band and the skin and snipped the band.

The clear, snotty nose could just be from stress of moving from one home to the other to yet another.  You can ward it off from becoming anything worse by giving VetRx - 2 drops each nostril 2x per day for 7 days.  You can get VetRx at farm stores or here:  http://www.jefferslivestock.com/product.asp?camid=LIV&pn=16742

If he doesn't poop by tomorrow morning I'd probably give him an enema.

Poor little guy


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 15, 2011)

Thank you guys so incredibly much!
I love this little one, as he fills a big hole in my heart:]
I will remove the band, get his drops, and watch his poops. 
I have stuff at work i can get to give him a little goat enema if need be:] lol

Wow, also, i'm sorry so many questions, its just that information online is very conflicting:
I was told to feed him whole milk diluted in half with water. He didn't seem to take to it so i tried just the whole milk and he gobbled it up. I was worried he'd get dehydrated and had to get something into him.
Is this whole milk only idea okay? I figured it'd be closer to what he'd get from mama, and that water might cause diarrhea, which would dehydrate him for sure. I have only given him one feeding of the milk only bottle.
I may have more questions to follow, i hope that's okay!
I wish i could send you cookies for your help! lol


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## elevan (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't bottle feed but I believe what I've seen posted most on here is to use regular whole cow's milk...never seen anything about diluting it.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 15, 2011)

If he were here I would not cut the band.  If it has been on for more than 24 hrs the scrotum is dead.  The only thing that cutting the band at this point will do is make you feel better and probably make him sick.


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## Our7Wonders (Jul 15, 2011)

A large percentage of members here feed whole milk only when they don't have goat milk.  I personally feed half goat milk half whole milk - but only because I have goats in milk currently.  I wouldn't hesitate to feed them whole milk only if I didn't have goat milk available.  Don't dilute his milk at all.  You might try a tsp of corn syrup in one of his milk bottles daily - that can sometimes help constipation.

http://goat-info.blogspot.com  is a blog from one of the members here and has some very good information on raising goats, you might find it useful.  

I've also really liked www.fiascofarm.com  they have lots of goat info there too.  That particular website has a holistic flair to it, but also lists conventional methods as well.  I like it because I try to go "natural" when ever possible.

He's a real cutie!


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 15, 2011)

Okay so whole milk it is! Diluting it just did not sound right to me, so im glad he can have just milk. (I dont have goats milk avail.)
And it has for sure been more than 24hours. Im so conflicted on what to do with his little band


> Goatmasta
> Today 10:49 pm
> If he were here I would not cut the band.  If it has been on for more than 24 hrs the scrotum is dead.  The only thing that cutting the band at this point will do is make you feel better and probably make him sick.


this was another concern, if the testes are dead, or he has dead tissue within, im afraid removing the band will cause the testes to retract and lead to internal infection. 

I am very, VERY much up for more opinions or information on the subject. 
Thanks for the links, milk, and help with poopin worries! lol


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## Goatmasta (Jul 15, 2011)

thank you 7wonders for the plug   Yes there is info on bottle raising a baby on my blog and what we do here.  we raise a lot of babies here and we have few issues with our methods.   Be sure to read the blog  _Kids- The "Big Three" First Things First_ it is probably the most important.


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 15, 2011)

Your site is amazing! so much good info!
So do you think the band should just stay? its really the only thing i am majorly concerned with at this very moment. 
If its best to leave it, then i can make sure he gets his special diet later on to avoid complications. 
I just want to know whats best to do.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 16, 2011)

BabyBonez17 said:
			
		

> Your site is amazing! so much good info!
> So do you think the band should just stay? its really the only thing i am majorly concerned with at this very moment.
> If its best to leave it, then i can make sure he gets his special diet later on to avoid complications.
> I just want to know whats best to do.


If he were here I would leave it.


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 16, 2011)

alright, that's what i'll do then. thanks again guys for all your help, i really appreciate it!
I hope to post pictures of my little one soon!


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Jul 16, 2011)

Once he is off the bottle and drinking water you might consider adding Ammonium Chloride to his water to help make sure he doesn't get UC.   I don't think you have to worry about it while bottle feeding but once they hit pasture/hay there is always a remote chance and with him being banded SO young it couldn't hurt.

...And nosy neighbors, passing people, etc are KNOWN for tossing less than helpful treats to goats.  I'd hate to see someone dump a bag of birdseed, 3 loaves of bread, something that totally throws his ph level off and he goes down on you. UC is nasty when it happens.


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 16, 2011)

I really hate to sound like more of an idiot than i already do, lol but where can i get ammonium chloride for his water? 
I have to drive a ways to a proper feed store which is fine, i just want to know where to get this stuff, and how often i'm looking at getting it.

I read that one teaspoon per two gallons of water per day is a good dosage for prevention. Does this sounds correct?


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 16, 2011)

SuburbanFarmChic said:
			
		

> ...And nosy neighbors, passing people, etc are KNOWN for tossing less than helpful treats to goats.  I'd hate to see someone dump a bag of birdseed, 3 loaves of bread, something that totally throws his ph level off and he goes down on you. UC is nasty when it happens.


As far as this goes i am very lucky to live in a pretty secluded house. We live in a sort of a country farm, neighborhood but our house and yard is way up on a hill that is litterally to steep to get up without a car, and our yard has no access to neighbors or really even people because the woods are to dense to reach it. yay! But still i will be wary and careful of such things


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## elevan (Jul 16, 2011)

BabyBonez17 said:
			
		

> I really hate to sound like more of an idiot than i already do, lol but where can i get ammonium chloride for his water?
> I have to drive a ways to a proper feed store which is fine, i just want to know where to get this stuff, and how often i'm looking at getting it.
> 
> I read that one teaspoon per two gallons of water per day is a good dosage for prevention. Does this sounds correct?


You can order a bag at Hoegger's supply online.


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## Griffin's Ark (Jul 17, 2011)

If I could not take the kid to a vet that is familiar with goats I would leave the band on and give a tetanus anti-toxin and start him on a cd&t regimen.  At his age you will have to give him CD&T toxoid every two weeks until he is at least 12 weeks old.  If you can take him to the vet, get the vet to cut the band and remove the sack and hopefully his urethra will develop properly.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 17, 2011)

Griffin's Ark said:
			
		

> If I could not take the kid to a vet that is familiar with goats I would leave the band on and give a tetanus anti-toxin and start him on a cd&t regimen.  At his age you will have to give him CD&T toxoid every two weeks until he is at least 12 weeks old.  If you can take him to the vet, get the vet to cut the band and remove the sack and hopefully his urethra will develop properly.


???  Please explain I am at a loss here.


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## Griffin's Ark (Jul 17, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> Griffin's Ark said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not sure which to explain...  But a goat that young being banded is asking for trouble.  Giving the CD&T shot every two weeks is recommended, because the kid will not get any benefit from the shot until he is at least 8 weeks old (according to our vet and the manufacturer of most vaccines).  Anti-toxin covers the kid for the period of time required for the CD&T to start to affect his system.  Removing the band will take any pressure off the urethra while it is growing, maybe saving the kid from excess scar tissue.  I would not do it without a vet though.


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## TheMixedBag (Jul 17, 2011)

Honestly (and it's JUST my opinion), I wouldn't worry much about the banding at all. I wethered my boys at 3 weeks old (and if I had waited any longer I'd have had to get the BIG banders that cost $80...yeah. Big boys), I know TONS of people who wether at birth, and tons more who don't wether until they're over 3 months old.

Right now, research is still unclear just how much of a risk early banding is, and almost nobody agrees. There are far too many other factors that can play into it, including feed, available minerals, environment, stress, genetics, and a whole list of other things. I would just make sure he gets plenty of AC and no grain and odds are, he won't be a problem.

If you absolutely want the band off, I agree with everyone else-get a vet. The problems you'll face trying to take it off yourself could end up being far worse than UC.


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 17, 2011)

I think I've decided to leave it on, and get the vaccines. 
I don't want to chance his life with anesthesia, and I only have him, so providing a special diet is 
something I am completely willing to do. 
So treat every two weeks with cd&t until 12 weeks old, and leave the band on. I think its the final verdict on my part.
I really appreciate everyones help!


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## BabyBonez17 (Jul 17, 2011)

One more thing, he is 8 days old, is he old enough for cd&t? And can I get this at a regular feed store.
thanks!


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## elevan (Jul 17, 2011)

BabyBonez17 said:
			
		

> One more thing, he is 8 days old, is he old enough for cd&t? And can I get this at a regular feed store.
> thanks!


Yes he's old enough and yes you should be able to get at your feed store.


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