# In trouble with Lionhead color breeding combinations... help!



## Rebelgurl34 (Oct 18, 2012)

Hello all! This is my first post here, so bare with me!

On an impulse I brought home 6 lionheads a few weeks back. I absolutely adore them, but now it is time to breed, and I think I may be in trouble with colors! 
Here is what I have:

2 Bucks:
1 Sable
1 that I was told is a smoke pearl, but I believe is actually a Sable point. (still learning color names, so not 100% sure) 

4 Does:
1 Black
1 Black Tort
1 light siamese sable
1 dark siamese sable

From what I can find so far, I am ok breeding the siamese sable does to either buck, but shouldn't breed the black or black tort with either of them. Is this right? 
Also, if anyone has experience with this breed, do you normally trim fur when you breed?


Ugh! my Checkereds and Meat Bunnies are so much easier! I also have Flemishes, but they are all fawns, lol. Thinking I am going to need another lionhead buck 

By the way, I love this forum! I have been a lurker for a couple of months, just haven't needed to post at all, as it usually seems like if I have a question, it has already been asked and answered! Thank you in advance!:/

Edit: It was not an impulse to bring them home, but the colors I brought home were! I went planning on only bringing home a trio or so, and fell in love with all of them!


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## Rebelgurl34 (Oct 18, 2012)

Also, if anyone knows of a good resource for me to learn all of the colors and/or approved breeding combinations, please let me know! I feel like I am reading in circles, and some of them contradict each other!


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## Bunnylady (Oct 18, 2012)

All the colors you mention are self colors, so I have no problem breeding any of them together. The only problem would be figuring out what colors the offspring are. Several of the colors you mention need alleles that aren't the most recessive in their series to produce them. There is the possibility of recessives hiding behind those colors. If those recessives are present,  they would need some "decoding" when they pop up on the offspring, regardless of which buck and doe you used.

BTW, Smoke pearl is a soft gray color, with darker gray on the points. Sable Point looks like a Siamese cat, with dark points and a creamy colored body.


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## Rebelgurl34 (Oct 18, 2012)

Thank you! If that's the case, I feel a little better. I will probably have to play guessing games with the kits for a while anyways. Wow! I am so overwhelmed right now, lol. And as far as the smoke pearl goes, Now I am very sure he is a sable point... but the gentleman I got them is insisting he is a smoke pearl. I should be getting pedigrees this weekend, I am curious to see what it says on his. I will try to get a picture of Starlight tonight after my kids go to bed. I think I have finally figured out the torts, but once you get into points and shades, I am lost again! Do you have lionheads? I don't THINK there are any serious breeders near me other than the one I got mine from and... well, he's a very nice guy, maybe just not very organized with the bunnies.


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## Bunnylady (Oct 18, 2012)

I don't do Lionheads, but rabbit colors are pretty much rabbit colors . . . up to a point. There are a few colors that are breed-specific (like the Flemish color Sandy) but they are mostly just standard colors with some modifiers that make them look a bit different in that breed.

Some rabbit breeders aren't really good with colors. I've seen colors listed on pedigrees that I knew couldn't possibly have come from the colors that were listed for the parents; sometimes, you just have to go with what you can see.


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## MobuTheMajestic (Jan 10, 2018)

Join the North American Lionhead Rabbit Club 
What colots are behind the bucks and does?
Breed fir quality body type first and then match up your color genes so you don't get some goofy one off color that is a DQ or carries DQ traits.


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## Bunnylady (Jan 10, 2018)

MobuTheMajestic said:


> Join the North American Lionhead Rabbit Club
> What colots are behind the bucks and does?
> Breed fir quality body type first and then match up your color genes so you don't get some goofy one off color that is a DQ or carries DQ traits.



This thread is more than 5 years old. The person who started it hasn't been back since then, so your question probably won't get answered.


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## MobuTheMajestic (Jan 12, 2018)

Bunnylady said:


> This thread is more than 5 years old. The person who started it hasn't been back since then, so your question probably won't get answered.


It's ok. Rather someone be able to read what's here and ask those questions of themselves and their program


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## Bunnylady (Jan 12, 2018)

I know I've heard people complain about the showable colors of the Lionheads, how they don't "mix and match" well at all. That, of course, is not the fault of either the ARBA or the breed club standard committees, it's just the varieties that passed their respective presentations. Almost any breed that shows in more than one color has the potential to throw unshowable colors, or poor representatives of a color, when the wrong individuals are bred together. Breeding the same colors together is boring, but it has least likelihood of producing unshowable results.


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