# New litter, and ?? about lost litter last week



## Chickybaby_byh (Jun 18, 2012)

Hey! I'm a newbie to this rabbit raising stuff, didn't think it would be so heartbreaking and exciting all at once. So, here's what's happening... have a Flemish doe, not quite a year old and not been bred before. We bred her to our American Chinchilla buck (he's proven), and a week ago Thursday she kindled without having built a nest - ended up with 3 on the cage floor (1 dead) and 3 more in the nest box. We put the 2 in the nest box and left them alone. The next day I removed 4 kits, to inspect and weigh them, and all seemed good... the nest was popping pretty good and I was excited that a first-time momma would do so good. Then Sunday morning I checked them, one baby got away from the others and was cold, but the nest wasn't covered either so I brought them all up to the house to warm them - did it twice that day, but lost 3 babies that evening and the other did not make it until morning. When I took the nest box out, I found one more baby at the back of the next box buried in the hay but it had not survived either. It was very sad, we were hoping that since they lasted longer than 24 hours, she was doing good for a first time mom... So now I'm wondering if me handling them so early had something to do with it, or if she was so inexperienced she didn't know what to do - maybe a combination of both??

We had also bred our Am Chin doe (don't know her age, she was obviously a mature doe when we got her but that's all we know) with our black NZ buck, then later with the same Am Chin buck - the NZ was ALL over the place and we weren't sure if he got the job done! She kindled overnight Friday, after furiously building a nest all day Friday. We found her cage filled with fur Saturday morning - she pulled enough to make a coat! The nest was covered, and moving, so I left it alone... Looks like she has done this before, there was no mess anywhere and that nest was built perfectly... I have been very hesitant to mess with the nest, after losing the last litter... but I realy want to check to see what we've got in there. Yesterday evening she had left part of it uncovered (she may have been feeding and we startled her so she jumped out) and we saw 3-4 fat wiggly babies, but I just covered it back up with fur and left. This morning it looks like some fur came out when she left the nest and I saw a couple o chubby babies again, but covered them and left.

I am dying to know what's in the nest, but am worried if I pull them out to check them we'll lose these too. Some things I have read say to leave the nest ALONE, don't touch at all - and other folks seem to think you need to pull the nest box and inspect the babies right away... which way is the best way?? New momma does not mind me poking around her cage, which is surprising being she is not the friendiest rabbit we have by far, so I'm wondering if I should just remove the box, move the fur around to see that all is in order, put fur back and return the box - or if I should just leave well enough alone, be patient, and wait for them to grow enough to come out of the nest on their own....

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated!


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## pennylove (Jun 18, 2012)

As a general rule if the rabbit is used to your scent, used to be handled herself, and is not reacting aggressively to guard her nestbox, it should be fine to check on the babies. If she's calm around you, there's no reason she would panic and harm (or abandon) her litter and it sounds like she's experienced, which helps, too.

As for your lost litter, it sounds like the mother's inexperience was mostly to blame. A better nest would have kept them warm and together to share their body heat, etc. I doubt it was your handling of the litter that caused their ultimate demise.


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## Chickybaby_byh (Jun 18, 2012)

Thanks! I was hoping it was not me... the Flemish doe was handled a lot and is used to being hand fed her "bunny salad", but being a new mother I wondered how she would do - I've heard new moms aren't usually very good at doing their job... our goal was to raise table rabbits, and I told myself from the start that I would not take extraordinary measures to ensure they survived (hand feeding)... no way I could even think about eating something I hand raised... I'm sure there are some that would, but not me!

As for the Am Chin doe, she is also used to being petted (does not like to be picked up at all) and loved on in her cage - and she does not mind if I poke around to put fur back on the nest and such so perhaps I will pull the box this evening, get a head count and weigh them then put the box back - hopefully that will be less stressful than pulling babies individaully and being in her space longer... she is not aggressive at all at this point, but she has never been overly friendly with people either... likes to be brushed and petted as long as you don't try to pick her up! She is very used to our scent, we hand feed treats daily to all of them and pet them several times every day.... I sure hope this litter makes it!


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## Bunnylady (Jun 18, 2012)

It's actually rather unusual for a rabbit to _like_ being picked up. I've had lots of rabbits that liked being petted, but only tolerated being picked up. Baby rabbits often find it terrifying, and some adults do, too.

I, too, think it was just the doe's inexperience. For some reason, her instincts didn't tell her she needed to get in that box and nurse her kits. I've had a number of does over the years that I had to teach to take care of their babies. I'd go ahead and rebreed her, and keep a closer eye on the litter next time. I have had a few does that seemed to have no milk at all, and one or two that had only a couple of functional "nozzles," but I think it likelier that the doe just didn't know what to do.


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