# Did you know your goat can get Johnes from hay???????



## PattySh (Apr 14, 2011)

I attended a very educational seminar this week presented by Phizer and my veterinarian.  One topic was Johnes. Did you know that you can get Johnes in your herd if your hay is fertilized with cow manure from a herd that has Johnes? I did not know that. Scary. I am so glad my hay guy doesn't have cattle anymore. Also you can pick up mites from stored hay in a barn that has pidgeons etc, best to pick up hay off the field and into your barn for the season. That I did not know either but that is what we do, guess that extra work is helping my herd.


----------



## elevan (Apr 14, 2011)

I did not know that...

Did you know that Johnes shows up in humans as Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS)?  And that pasteurization does not kill the disease in milk? And that cattle in this country are the major cause of IBS in humans...


----------



## KellyHM (Apr 14, 2011)

IBS does not equal Johne's.  They are looking into studies to see if it is a SIMILAR bug, but it is not the same thing.  I'm not saying people can't pick up Johne's, but just b/c they have IBS doesn't mean they have Johne's.  IBS is not a fatal disease and Johne's is.


----------



## country freedom (Apr 14, 2011)

Thank you for the info....good to know.


----------



## AlaskanShepherdess (Apr 14, 2011)

It is Chrones (sp) disease in humans, or at least it's caused by the same bacteria. I have a friend who has Chrones disease and it is NOT fun. I wish we could educate more people about the importance of testing your animals for disease and treating to prevent it from spreading.


----------



## Ariel301 (Apr 14, 2011)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> It is Chrones (sp) disease in humans, or at least it's caused by the same bacteria. I have a friend who has Chrones disease and it is NOT fun. I wish we could educate more people about the importance of testing your animals for disease and treating to prevent it from spreading.


Not necessarily. In SOME Crohn's patients, they have found the same bacteria. But not all. There is still plenty of debate on what causes Crohn's, it is not for sure the bacteria that causes Johne's in livestock.


----------



## elevan (Apr 14, 2011)

KellyHM said:
			
		

> IBS does not equal Johne's.  They are looking into studies to see if it is a SIMILAR bug, but it is not the same thing.  I'm not saying people can't pick up Johne's, but just b/c they have IBS doesn't mean they have Johne's.  IBS is not a fatal disease and Johne's is.


Johnes is listed in several studies as causing IBS in humans.  And you're correct that they don't state all IBS as being caused by Johnes.  Crohns is another that is suspected to come from Johnes.

There are plenty of disease, viruses and bacterial infections that present differently given a different "host"

Although cattle producers are supposed to euthanize positive cows that doesn't always stop Johnes from getting into the milk supply and then the cheese and butter supply.

More reason to grow our own in my opinion.

Getting Johnes in your hay from using cattle manure...getting tetnus from exposure to horse manure...getting what ever from this manure or that manure.  Seems to me we could worry about the cyclic nature of things until we're blue in the face.  I choose to not overly worry about it but to try to be informed on all the risks.

And there are plenty of back and forth of this causes this and that causes that...so this hay thing may be another of that or it may be truth.  Take it all with a grain of salt imo.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Apr 15, 2011)

Thought this added to the discussion:



From:  http://www.johnes.org/general/faqs.html#1


Can humans get Johne's disease?
The term Johnes disease is used only to describe the clinical illness in ruminants that occurs after MAP infection. 

There is a human ailment however called Crohn's disease that in several ways resembles Johne's disease. Crohns disease is a chronic inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) that has no known cause and no known cure. In some studies MAP has been found in tissues of Crohns disease patients more often than controls. Some researchers believe MAP is the cause of Crohn's disease for at least a subset of patients. The majority of gastroenterologists, however, do not; they believe that MAP, if found in this subset of patients, is simply a by-stander amongst the many other organisms that are found in a malfunctioning gastrointestinal tract. No connection has been shown between contact with animals with Johne's disease, dairy product consumption and Crohn's disease. This aspect of MAP is a complex and controversial area of scientific investigation. 
A detailed discussion of this topic can be found in "Zoonotic Potential" on this website.


----------



## elevan (Apr 15, 2011)

Another side:

http://www.crohns.org/map_food/index.htm  (Regarding connection to Crohns)

http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/reprint/45/12/3883.pdf  (Regarding connection to IBS)


----------



## Livinwright Farm (Apr 15, 2011)

Wow, very interesting thoughts & theories from all ways around... My thought: f MAP has only been found in some Chrones patients and not others, then it is not the cause, but rather a secondary infection.

I think when people get Chrones the doctors' first priority should be to make a list of all the most consumed foods and drinks, potentially even a list of current medications the patients are on. If most of the people have the same things in the food or med lists, then narrow it down to find out specifically what it is that is causing it.


----------



## Roll farms (Apr 15, 2011)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> I wish we could educate more people about the importance of testing your animals for disease and treating to prevent it from spreading.


Did you ever get your herd tested to find out what was killing your bucks off last year?


----------



## AlaskanShepherdess (Apr 16, 2011)

Not yet. The finances just haven't been here yet. We keep thinking, oh as soon as this job goes through, then we'll have the money. But the jobs aren't going through and we're living off of a couple hundred a month. So, it's gotta wait.  Everyone else seems healthy so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they don't have anything.


----------

