# Qs on facilities for 2-3 milking sheep, also predator Q



## patandchickens (Mar 22, 2010)

I have given DH *ample* notice that I am wanting to get several milk goats or sheep this year, and he has not had a tizzy, so I am regarding it as approved (yay!). What exactly I end up with will depend on what I can find locally that I can also arrange to rebreed in the fall, so I really have no idea yet what i'll end up with. Thus, I am also posting these type Qs in the goat area of the forum, sorry 

So let's say I get 2-3 friesian ewes, for milking.

I think the easiest thing will be to house them in the barn; I can carve out some space, but it'll be coming out of my (ground-floor) hay storage area so I can't be too lavish.* Would 8x10 be adequate for the indoor needs of 2-3 sheep, in an area with nasty winters?* I could subdivide for lambing, and would milk elsewhere in the barn.

*How cold-tolerant are sheeps*  - will they go outside in nasty weather, or what? It sometimes gets down to -35 C here (like -30 F), a typical winter day would be -22 C at night (-5 F) and maybe -15 C as a daytime high (7 F), but very windy and sometimes pretty snowy. I have NO CLUE about sheep behavior, please educate me!

I gather sheep don't do well with mud, so would need to bring in some gravel/sand/dirt fill to make a dry yard for confinement during wet times, which happens a lot here. *
How big should this dry confinement area be for 2-3 sheep?* 

The rest of the time, I could either let them loose with the horses, or move them around in temporary electric fencing (what size area for 2-3 sheep?) -- which would be better? The horse fencing is not predatorproof.

For the dry yard, that they'd always have access to in the winter and in muddy times, *would 4' woven wire plus 1-2 electric strands provide adequate protection against loose dogs and coyotes?* How many of you have lost sheep to predators in similar circumstances? We may get a pet dog someday but it would not be a LGD/"farm dog" type, so fencing is the only protection available and I don't want to be picking up goat bits some fine morning.

Thanks for any and all advice,

Pat


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 22, 2010)

Hi Pat.  There's really so many different factors to answering your questions.  The best thing to do would be google "sheep housing requirements" or "sheep space requirements" and you'll find many different websites from different Extension sites from all over the country.  One good place to start would be the Maryland Small Ruminant page, which is www.sheepandgoat.com .  There's also this site:  Sheep 201: Housing .  You'll really want to look for information specific to your area of the country (or world).  

I think the 4' wire mesh fencing with 2 electric wires would be good enough fencing, but I'm not sure where you are and what your predator pressure is.  Where I am, we really don't have to worry about anything besides stray dogs.  There are coyotes, but not many at all in this part of the state.  Talk to people in your area with sheep (or goats) and find out what they do.  Or call your local Cooperative Extension Service.  They're a wealth of informatin for someone just getting started!  

Good luck in your sheep quest.  Hope you find what you're looking for!


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## patandchickens (Mar 22, 2010)

Yeah, I've seen those sites, the problem I have is that they are talking about larger herds, not 2-3 sheep, and I totally do not know enough about sheep to be able to figure out whether it scales down proportionately or not? And also they seem oriented towards what is economically-efficient without negatively impacting sheep production, and I am a bit distrustful of that sort of analysis (e.g. my chickens have 15 sq ft apiece in the coop, not 2-3 sq ft )

We have "some" coyotes here, I am not sure what counts as a lot or a little.

In Canada there is no state extension service , and unfortunately OMAFRA does not seem to be good at giving advice on things like 'I want to keep two sheep' 

Pat


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## aggieterpkatie (Mar 22, 2010)

patandchickens said:
			
		

> Yeah, I've seen those sites, the problem I have is that they are talking about larger herds, not 2-3 sheep, and I totally do not know enough about sheep to be able to figure out whether it scales down proportionately or not? And also they seem oriented towards what is economically-efficient without negatively impacting sheep production, and I am a bit distrustful of that sort of analysis (e.g. my chickens have 15 sq ft apiece in the coop, not 2-3 sq ft )
> 
> We have "some" coyotes here, I am not sure what counts as a lot or a little.
> 
> ...


Well, when those sites say things like "20 sq. feet per ewe", that's the rate they're recommending, so just multiply that by 3, and I'd use that as a minimum of space allotted for your animals.  Those sites give good guidelines.  You want to err on the side of too much space.


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## miss_thenorth (Mar 22, 2010)

Coming from my very limited experience, 8x10 would seem to be adequate for an indoor area., with access to a dry lot.  My sheep didn't seem to mind the cold as much as the wind--they would get out of the wind at all costs, so even in your dry lot, make sure you have adequate wind breaks for them.

The thing that we are struggling with right now, is having a separate area for the lambs when weaning them from the ewe for milking purposes. the lambs can be in with the other ewes, but the ewe you intend on milking will need a separate area so the lambs don't drain her of the milk.  On that note, the ewes could probably be separated and housed together, with the lambs being separate.  ( I hope that makes sense)

Also, I'm not sure about Friesians, but you can stagger their lambing so you have fresh  milk year round.

As for predators, I know we have coyotes in this area.  I have seen them at the neighbour's farm, --coons too.  But I have never even seen a sign of one on our property.  We have two dogs--not LGDs, but our dogs are very proficient at marking their territory with their droppings.  I think that is the only reason why we haven't seen any predators on our land.  

My sil had the same experience.  She has a bush lot on her land where there are coyotes.  While she had her dog.  she never saw a coyote near her animals.  Her dog died, and she waited a while to get a new one.  while she was dogless, she lost two emben geese, several silkies and a polish.  She quickly got anothher dog and hasn't seen any coyotes since.  so I really don't think it makes a difference what kind of dog you get, as long as he poops everwhere that your other animals live.  (And you won't have rabbits eating your plants either)

Pagewire with electric will hold them in the pasture--they are not pushy.  As far as cold climates, I would think they would be very hardy considering all the wool they would have grown by that time of year.
As for electric netting for rotational grazing, we ordered from Premier1.  I'm not exactly sure which one it is, hubby ordered it, but we had in mind that we would use it also for thehorses for when we go trail riding as a temporary paddock for them  I can find out from hubs which one it is lwhen he gets home.  

Hope that helps


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## patandchickens (Mar 23, 2010)

Aggieterpkatie, my concern about scaling down square footage recommendations from large flocks to just 2 animals is that they end up with a lot less total walking-around room in the 2 animal scenario. 20 chickens in an 80 sq ft coop have a LOT more freedom of movement than 1 chicken in a 2x2 box, even though the square footage is the same, you know?

THANK YOU, miss_thenorth! That is exactly the sort of info I was looking for  Yes, they would have good protection from the wind - the dry lot would be on the S side of the barn, and I would put up a good windbreak fence on the W side (which is already partly protected by some poplars and fences and brush). And I do have some Premier electronet (the poultry type) already that I was thinking I might be able to use for moveable grazing fences.

How do you find your sheep do with damp/muddy ground, or have you managed to get an always-dry site for them?

Thanks so much for the help,

Pat


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## miss_thenorth (Mar 23, 2010)

patandchickens said:
			
		

> Aggieterpkatie, my concern about scaling down square footage recommendations from large flocks to just 2 animals is that they end up with a lot less total walking-around room in the 2 animal scenario. 20 chickens in an 80 sq ft coop have a LOT more freedom of movement than 1 chicken in a 2x2 box, even though the square footage is the same, you know?
> 
> THANK YOU, miss_thenorth! That is exactly the sort of info I was looking for  Yes, they would have good protection from the wind - the dry lot would be on the S side of the barn, and I would put up a good windbreak fence on the W side (which is already partly protected by some poplars and fences and brush). And I do have some Premier electronet (the poultry type) already that I was thinking I might be able to use for moveable grazing fences.
> 
> ...


(part of this response in in regards to your post on SS

Well, right now they are still in electric netting that we have been moving.  They have been in some mud, and one ewe seems to not like it much, but the other is fine with it.    They are definitely more rain tolerant than goats are.  They do NOT like the wind /rain combo.  

Hubby is going to pick up some t-posts today and build them a permanent area, but we still plan on rotating them throughout the rest of the yard and pasture.  this will just be a home base for when we are not home.

Seriously, I think 8x10 would be fine, but you will need another area for lambing season, plus separating them for milking.  Depending on whether you stagger their births, you do, if I remember correctly have horse stalls, even though your horses are in a run-in shelter?  Those could be used temporarily?

YOur concerns about the dry lot being too small would not be a concern to me.  It will only be for the wet season, and they will be getting hay then anyways.  It will only be temporary.  In the winter, they can still go out onto pasture, sheep are very good at digging through the snow to get to grass.  (of course they will still need hay).  As long as they have access to their enclosure to get out of the elements they should be fine.  When my sheep lie down to chew their cud, they are basically laying ontop of each other, so as I said, 8x10 should be fine.

And as for milking, yes, when you start, it's gonna take you a while, but as you get better, it won;t take as long.  But you can do it.  I have read of your exploits, and it seems that when you choose to do something, you do it well, with no help from your dh.  So this will just be like that.  I don't know what it would be like with your youngest one--you will have to decide whether he could be a helper or find something to occupy him for the time it would take to  milk.  Milking is actually a nice quiet time.  But I did buy a Udderly easy milker for when the arthritis acts up in my hands--haven;t used it much.

You can do this!


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