# NYS dept of AG? Really?



## RockyToggRanch (Jul 22, 2010)

So I posted on CL that I have milk to spare if anyone is interested it's $5. per gallon. I get a response wanting some. I remind them that I'm selling it for pet or craft purposes as I am not a registered dairy. 

Immediate response from Dept of AG telling me that it's illegal to sell raw milk in NY without a Raw Milk Permit! Asked if I'd like an inspector to contact me. 

I responded reminding them that I don't sell milk for human consumption.

They responded asking if I had a way to make sure they don't drink it and get sick.

I said "I could spit in it." at this point I'm so annoyed that my tax dollars pay for someone to surf CL and annoy hobbiests that I got snippy. "I have not and will not sell milk. I will continue to drink it, make cheese and desserts with it and serve it to everyone I know."

I posted a 2nd ad on CL saying "Milk NOT FOR SALE....but if you have a need..contact me and you'll get it. I won't SELL it to you, but you'll get it. Gotta love NY where it's easier to sell drugs than milk."

I'm sure they'll have something to say


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## ohiofarmgirl (Jul 22, 2010)

> I said "I could spit in it.


HA!!! good for you. 

isnt that something..... but good to know they are lurking out there. and you can always make whoever sign a waiver that they are using the milk for pet consumption and not for human????

i'm sure your friendly inspector would love to come around and tell you everything you are doing wrong. sheesh!


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## 4hmama (Jul 22, 2010)

Have milk available and if someone want's to give you a 'donation' for your time and trouble getting the milk, or a monetary 'donation' to use for feed or meds - who are you to turn that down?  You aren't 'selling' milk.


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## glenolam (Jul 22, 2010)

HA!  You should post an ad saying "Goat Milk Available, but only if you sign a contract stating you will never drink the milk yourself, submit to testing _proving_ you did not drink the goat milk, and agree to random inspections of your house/family to ensure humans are not ingesting the goat milk - ALL AT THE EXPENSE OF THE STATE"


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## aggieterpkatie (Jul 22, 2010)

Be very careful selling any milk!  Even if you think no agency would ever check you out because you're "not selling much milk" you still could be a target of an investigation.  It's probably best not to advertise at all, just go on word of mouth if you had to sell milk.  

It really stinks that so many states are so paranoid about raw milk.   Ridiculous.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Jul 22, 2010)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> Be very careful selling any milk!  Even if you think no agency would ever check you out because you're "not selling much milk" you still could be a target of an investigation.  It's probably best not to advertise at all, just go on word of mouth if you had to sell milk.
> 
> It really stinks that so many states are so paranoid about raw milk.   Ridiculous.


yep. i know a saanan breeder who says its "isnt worth the risk" to try and sell her milk... so during peak times she dumps up to 50 gallons day! AND THERE ARE HUNGRY PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY. 

it is ridiculous. 

around here they have a farming paper call "Farm and Dairy" that regularly has stories about folks who try and sell milk shares or what not trying to get around the regulations...and how they are ruined by the investigations and court costs. ugh.


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## jodief100 (Jul 22, 2010)

The government is screaming they are broke and need to raise taxes, cut police, release prisoners, lay off teachers, yet they seem to have the funds to pay someone to protect us from ourselves?  

Remember:  A government powerful enough to give you everything you want is powerful enough to take everything you have.  

Where is John Galt?


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## freemotion (Jul 22, 2010)

Why are no government agencies surfing CL to put the prostitutes out of business who illegally advertise as massage therapists???  And why did CL remove the ability to flag these ads AFTER the CL killings of these prostitutes/fake massage therapists?  I used to flag all the time...now you can't flag in this section.

This world makes no sense to me.  Maybe you could advertise your milk under the therapeutic services section.  No government agency lurks there.


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## glenolam (Jul 22, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Why are no government agencies surfing CL to put the prostitutes out of business who illegally advertise as massage therapists???


They ARE surfing that section, but not to put the prostitutes out of business - they're the ones buying those "services"


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## Papadavid (Jul 22, 2010)

Big Brother is Watching!!!


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## glenolam (Jul 22, 2010)

Papadavid said:
			
		

> Big Brother is Watching!!!


Ain't it the truth - _eyes are everywhere and we don't even know it_?!?


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## cmjust0 (Jul 22, 2010)

I like the "goat milk NOT for sale" ad..   

I can picture the rest...  "The milk we're NOT selling is fresh, right from the goat, blah blah blah"..."for more information on the milk I'm not selling, call me at .........."


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## patandchickens (Jul 22, 2010)

I dunno, I totally understand your peevedness and I agree with you that the whole raw milk legal situation is beyond silly.... BUT, I do not know as it's smart to be advertising it "not for sale" either. Unless you are a newly graduated lawyer itchin' to pick a fight  

You will get the exact same crew of gummint folks coming down on you only even HARDER because it looks like you are *both* neenering them *and* trying to sneak around.

As far as "for pet and craft use only", there are only a few states that allow restricted sale of raw milk that way and it is understandable to me because, IF you accept for a moment their premise that it is desirable to prohibit raw milk or regulate it nearly out of existance, then clearly that is impossible if you allow people to merely not *say* they are offering it for human use nudge nudge wink wink. You know? Otherwise it would be like, I don't know, what is a substance that you personally feel SHOULD be legally controlled or illegal, maybe LSD? Should people be able to advertise "LSD not for sale, come talk to me" or "LSD for sale *only* as a paint additive, absolutely not for human consumption"?  

(Mind you I am not personally comparing raw milk to LSD  -- I am just saying that, WHEN you think something should be restricted, you can't be having loopholes that you can drive a bus through, you know?)

Word of mouth, with nothing ever publicly advertised or written down, is safer but be aware that some people still eventually run into legal trouble that way, when the wrong person mentions something to the wrong other person etc.

Best of luck and commiserations,

Pat


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## cmjust0 (Jul 22, 2010)

I guess the best advice here would be to do one's homework..

There's actually an 'unpasteurized goat milk law' in kentucky..  Basically, the law (KRS 217C 0.90) directs the Kentucky Cabinet for Health and Family Services -> Department for Public Health -> Public Health Protection and Safety -> Milk Safety Branch to "issue administrative regulations allowing the sale, upon written recommendation of a physician, of goat milk which has not been pasteurized."

Well, they did...here it is.

It that's not a gigantic PITA just waiting to happen, I dunno what is.


:/


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## RockyToggRanch (Jul 22, 2010)

It's just crazy to me. The dept of AG doesn't scare me at all. I deal with them regularly in the 11 stores that I over see. I really don't need to sell milk. I'll sell cheese cake instead...hahaha

It just urks me. 

I would welcome a challenge from them...they would lose

I had better not advertise my soaps or they'll likely find a reason I can't sell them either :/  Oh know....there's too much goats milk in that bar!


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## glenolam (Jul 22, 2010)

Or you'd have to find a way to guarantee your customers won't eat the soap


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## cmjust0 (Jul 22, 2010)

FWIW...it's "well known" around here that it's perfectly OK to sell raw goat's milk to people so long as it's labeled "for livestock use only" or if they bring a doctor's note.

I mean..._everybody knows that._

Only problem is that it's not true.  Like, AT ALL.

The KAR regulations state that you can only sell raw goats' milk if you have a permit, and that it can only be sold to those who present a written recommendation by a physician..

Sooooo...if I tried to sell mine for 'craft use' or 'for livestock use only' -- or even to someone who brought me an Rx for is -- I'd still go down in flames if I got caught..

Reason being -- no permit.  It's patently ILLEGAL here to sell it without that permit.  


Oh, and my favorite part is the one sentence on how they "may" issue a permit if you meet all the criteria, followed by several paragraphs about how they "shall" revoke your permit if you do x, y, or z..  The may part is disturbing...they're not even _compelled_ to issue the permit, if they don't feel like it.


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## jodief100 (Jul 22, 2010)

Kentucky has some of the strictest food safety laws in the country.  No small producer exemptions (only exception I  know of is eggs), must be USDA processed for resale, etc.  I guess the Govn'mint don' trus us ig-no-ant hillbillies 

I have a friend who makes cheese.  I give her goats milk and she gives me cheese.  It works out for the both of us.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jul 23, 2010)

RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

> The dept of AG doesn't scare me at all.


Well, I would be at least a little scared.  "They" (either the Dept. of Ag or another regulating official) can slam you with some hefty fines, take your computer (for records), etc.


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## chandasue (Jul 23, 2010)

Oh I'd be so ticked off... Love your response though!   "They've" been cracking down in MN too. Certain individuals have gotten busted delivering raw milk. Fortunately it is legal to sell raw milk here but people are supposed to go to the farm to buy it, no deliveries. Supposed to have a milking room set up with a floor drain, running water, electricity and all that jazz besides though so even if I had enough to sell I couldn't since I milk in the shed with a dirt floor. Shocking-none of us or anyone that comes to my house gets sick. Anyway... We have a big meth problem here that "they" can't get under control but yet "they" have to stop people from drinking something healthy! Chaps my ass...

Edit: LOL automatically puts in "backside" from what I actually wrote!


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## phoenixmama (Jul 23, 2010)

I am so happy I live in a state where it is legal to sell raw milk.  

I'm right down the road from an organic grade A dairy that only sells raw milk.  To bad it's so pricey...which is why we now have two Nubian doelings in our backyard.


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