# deep litter method questions



## Suburbanfarmer (Nov 20, 2012)

Ok, I have two ND does in an 8 x 8 stall/shed. Basically they have half my large shed and the door can close, but we prop it open for them to come and go at will.

I have used the deep litter method with my chickens and love it. I would like to try with the goats, but I'm running into trouble. 

I'm finding that I have quite an ammonia smell in there after only a week. I put down a layer of stall dry and then pine shavings over a sealed wood floor. I've since just thrown their wasted hay into the mix as well. 

I have tried to turn the bedding every day or two to keep it dryer. Is that my problem? Should I just leave it alone and add bedding on top?

Also, is the hay causing more problems? I see where some people say that straw does not cause as much ammonia smell as hay. 

I am in Seattle, so it gets wet and rainy and we will get some snow each winter, but it doesn't freeze hard and stay that way. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
-K


----------



## SheepGirl (Nov 20, 2012)

Wet hay smells bad and it starts to ferment, so that may be part of your issue. If you can I would use straw.


----------



## Alice Acres (Nov 20, 2012)

I'd say it's the stirring up that is causing troubles.

We just keep layering ours, and clean out the barn every couple years. It is on a dirt floor - if you you are over cement it doesn't work as well. We had cement in our barn at home when I was a kid and we had more ammonia smell, if I remember right.

Living in MN, I was a good 4-H sheep owner as a kid, and got yelled at by my vet for keeping my barn too clean. He stressed how a deeper bedding layer would be healthier for my sheep, especially lambing in MN in January.  Sure enough, more bedding actually worked better.

We just use hay, not straw. It's a a plain grass hay.


----------



## Harbisgirl (Nov 20, 2012)

I dunno, I would think you would need to stir it a bit. That's how it works in the chicken coop - I use the DL method in my coop as well. The chickens scratch around and mix it up which is a key part of air circulation and keeping it dry. I use pine shavings - I've heard that hay can be pretty nasty. If it doesn't get stirred up it can get rancid and moldy which is bad. Not sure about goats, but thats how it works for the chickens.


----------



## Suburbanfarmer (Nov 20, 2012)

Harbisgirl said:
			
		

> I dunno, I would think you would need to stir it a bit. That's how it works in the chicken coop - I use the DL method in my coop as well. The chickens scratch around and mix it up which is a key part of air circulation and keeping it dry. I use pine shavings - I've heard that hay can be pretty nasty. If it doesn't get stirred up it can get rancid and moldy which is bad. Not sure about goats, but thats how it works for the chickens.


Yep, that's what I do for my chickens too. I sorta just carried over the thought to the goats. I think I will try not stirring it up and see if that helps.


----------



## ragdollcatlady (Nov 21, 2012)

Last year I deep littered our little goat shed. It worked fine for us. The main reason I did it is because the front area just outside their house stays wet and when it rains or more often is just super wet from crazy amounts of fog...I wanted their bedding higher than the ground. 

This spring when we dug it out, it did come out in layers, the bottom most layers were nice and composted, some middle layers had some moldy bits in between wet mucky layers of hay, and the top several layers were just hay and poop. We just used wasted left over hay after the initial straw. My goats don't really dig at the bedding so the mold a few layers down didn't seem to cause them any problems...

Oh and after we scooped out all the compost, the goats were in another area for a few months to dry out and freshen the shed. I think we ended up with about 2 feet of litter in the end.

 I can't say I remember an ammonia smell....It did smell like warm animals, but once we started digging, we did find a few yucky smells.


----------



## GoatCrazyLady (Nov 21, 2012)

So how long can you deep litter the chicken coop for? I've been cleaning mine out at least twice a week. The goat shed has been done daily because of the parasite load, so I'm waiting for freezing temps to start the deep litter for them. I use wood chips on bottom and grass hay on top for both.


----------



## Goatherd (Nov 21, 2012)

Deep litter method is not for me.  I've done it and it's far more work than cleaning a stall regularly.  I did it over one winter and the removal/cleanup in the Spring was horrendous.  Physically, it's a tremendous amount of work to remove straw that has been down for several months combined with feces and urine.
For me...never again.


----------



## Alice Acres (Nov 21, 2012)

We clean ours with a friend's skidloader and a manure spreader


----------



## cementitiousman (Nov 21, 2012)

GoatCrazyLady said:
			
		

> So how long can you deep litter the chicken coop for? I've been cleaning mine out at least twice a week. The goat shed has been done daily because of the parasite load, so I'm waiting for freezing temps to start the deep litter for them. I use wood chips on bottom and grass hay on top for both.


I use the DL method for the coop and only clean it once a year.  Stir up the old stuff then add more shavings and diatomaceous earth when it gets stinky. I hate the straw or hay which doesn't seem to work as well.


----------



## 20kidsonhill (Nov 21, 2012)

We deep liter on dirt, with straw. Of course some hay does get mixed in, but it is a minimal amount of hay.  Hay does make more of a smell.  We do not loosen or stir it up. Just add straw when needed. We use a tractor with a bucket and a manure spreader to clean out one time every 2 years. It would be an impossible job with out the equipement.  But we have 30 adult goats, plus up to 45 kids a year. Personally, If i even had to clean out for 3 or 4 gots by hand, I would probably do it more often. We don't close our barn up, except for a few nights when the does are due to kid. Ventilation is very very important. 

We also encourage our goats to go out of the barn as much as possible during the day, so the water is outside and we also feed some hay outside.  We don't normally have a build up of snow, but due occasional get a foot or two and it can stay on the ground for a couple weeks. We never bring the water in the barn, but we have had to shovel a path to the water. Of course if there is snow on the ground, the goats spend a quite a bit of time inside.


----------



## cementitiousman (Nov 21, 2012)

Hey Suburban Farmer,  we're the City Art Farm  down in the Columbia City area with 3 fiber goats, 10 chickens, 2 cats, 1 dog, and a snake on about a third acre. I find the straw and hay just absorb any moisture, hold it, and turn into a big stinky mat which can't be mixed around like the shavings.
My wife sweeps up the goat pen almost every day (thank you Joan) to keep it clean for the kids that attend art school here. After we have a pile it goes into the compost or neighbors come collect it for their gardens. Enjoy the rain!


----------



## Harbisgirl (Nov 21, 2012)

GoatCrazyLady said:
			
		

> So how long can you deep litter the chicken coop for? I've been cleaning mine out at least twice a week. The goat shed has been done daily because of the parasite load, so I'm waiting for freezing temps to start the deep litter for them. I use wood chips on bottom and grass hay on top for both.


It depends on how many chickens you have and how big the coop is. I have a fairly large coop with only 6 chickens - and I keep a poop board under their roosting bars so the bedding stays pretty clean. I was planning on cleaning it out twice a year but a few weeks ago as I did my bi-annual cleanout, I realized that that it wasnt necessary. I think I'll switch to once a year in the spring. DL is great for winter since the decomp increases the temp in the coop - but you need to have enough poo for that to happen, so waiting until its already freezing might not be as beneficial as far as warmth goes. I figure if I clean out in spring then it will be cleanest during the hot months and by the time it gets cold there will be enough poo accumulation for decomp. I was really surprised at how well this works. I use pine shavings - I wasnt sure if wood chips would hold the moisture too long and cause mold - and heard that hay is pretty stinky and moldy after awhile so I haven't tried either one of those. I don't know that firsthand but the pine shavings work great so I just haven't had a need to change.


----------



## bigmike (Nov 21, 2012)

I use the deep litter method for both the goats and the chickens.I have ground for the floor and use straw.The chickens keep theirs scratched up pretty good.And it seems to be working really for the goats.But since I am in Northern Texas my goats are outside most of the time.the only time they go into the goat shed is when it is raining and at night.Plus both my chicken coop and goat shed are open or partially open on one side so there is plenty of ventilation.


----------



## ragdollcatlady (Nov 21, 2012)

I deep litter my chickens only in the winter, trying to build up so that by the freezing temps they have some insulation between them and the ground....That is just for my silkies by the way...Most of our other birds free range and are free to come and go between 2 different houses and the wild outdoors anytime. The only problem I have with deep litter and silkies is making sure to stay on top of mites....but a little seven dust works wonders for that.  I use pine shavings for them. I did see a study that found that chicks raised on deep litter had far better resistance to coccidia that chicks raised in several other, cleaner methods. The folks doing the study were surprised...I think they were studying something else and this was just a side note from their study.....

My goat shed is only about 8 feet by 8 feet and I used some old doors across the back half and part of one side so the goats can get off the floor if they want so they essentially have a loft area. Sometimes they sleep on the hay/straw floor and sometimes they sleep on the shelves. The door got broken off so half of the one side is open, but they can all get comfortably out of the wind.  I just repurposed a really old walnut shed that was on our property, but it works swell for protecting my pets!

I like the insulating property of the extra thick bedding. To me, the trouble of cleaning it out once a  year isn't all that bad...I get all that stuff almost ready for my gardens.


----------



## ThornyRidgeII (Nov 21, 2012)

You will never truly get rid of ammonia smell with any type of treatment of deep litter.  One of the main issues you have is that it is a wood floor, so naturally you don't have natural drainage through a dirt floor.  I did the "build up" type bedding a couple times and found that in the spring when I cleaned it out.. well it was a helluva lot of work... typically what I try to do is keep area cleaned and as bare as long as I can.. that means cleaning out areas up until snow falls and can't get the tractor/wagon out in it... I have also found that not over feeding helps in preventing excessive wasted hay falling on ground and building up.  The past two years by keeping up with it when I am able makes for a much easier and far better spring cleaning!!!  If you are concerned about the goats lying in the damp/wet/smelly hay, put in a couple wood shelves/boxes that they will naturally lay on to elevate them off the floor!


----------



## Suburbanfarmer (Nov 23, 2012)

cementitiousman said:
			
		

> Hey Suburban Farmer,  we're the City Art Farm  down in the Columbia City area with 3 fiber goats, 10 chickens, 2 cats, 1 dog, and a snake on about a third acre. I find the straw and hay just absorb any moisture, hold it, and turn into a big stinky mat which can't be mixed around like the shavings.
> My wife sweeps up the goat pen almost every day (thank you Joan) to keep it clean for the kids that attend art school here. After we have a pile it goes into the compost or neighbors come collect it for their gardens. Enjoy the rain!


Hey! It's great to find someone close by.  We are a bit further south, down in Bonney Lake. 

So, do you deep litter the indoor area with hay/straw and sweep the outdoor area?


----------



## cementitiousman (Nov 24, 2012)

Suburbanfarmer said:
			
		

> cementitiousman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, except we clean out the inside area every couple/few weeks and start afresh so it's not really DL method.


----------



## aggieterpkatie (Nov 24, 2012)

I do deep litter over dirt for both in the barn and out in the shelter. I don't stir it, I just add straw on top of it.  Hay gets wasted, but I don't add more than what they don't eat already, so it's not much.  If it starts to smell like ammonia, I add more straw.  Your wood floor may be causing the problem.  I'd try doing a thick layer of shavings, then straw on top and don't stir it.  Just let it be.  Your chicken bedding is not going to be the same as the goat bedding, because chickens don't urinate on the floor, so it's much drier.  I don't deep bed my chickens though, I just clean out the shavings every few weeks or as needed.


----------

