# hutch building Qs and keeping cool Q



## secuono (Aug 25, 2011)

So I went out and bought several 2x3s and have two rolls of 15ft wire. Got a pic below of the plan. 3ft deep by 6ft long. 
I'm wondering what the best floor would be; wire to let poo and pee fall away, solid wood or a half wood and half wire floor?
Winter in Virginia can get pretty cold and summers just plain nasty. 
Should I have just the front open to air via wire mesh, 2 sides or 3 sides? I can make side doors of wood to close in winter and rain. 
Since rabbits can't take the heat, I was wondering if I have a bin full of dirt, will that help? Chickens, dogs, cats all dig holes and lay in it during hot days, I'm sure rabbits would do the same. Frozen water bottles last a crazy short time. I've used them in the past to try and cool my fish tanks, but within 30min, they are melted and the same temp as the water. And that can be 85-87F, tanks are in the house, shaded, insulated and a fan going to keep them cool. It's all still no good. 
Is 3ft by 3ft a good amount of room for each rabbit? I'll add a large pen for them later on, maybe wait until spring, for them to run and exercise. They will be a meat breeding pair, but I still want them to have some luxuries, not just popping out food for us..
Most likely the hutch will be up against the house on the west side. House shading it in the morning, trees shading it partly midday and trees shading in the evening.


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## secuono (Aug 25, 2011)

Stop gawking and post something! 27 views...no one has any tips, eh? Slackers! lol

Well, the wood is all cut! I just need one more top bit of wood. Going with 4.5ft not 4ft for the roof, might change once it's mostly together.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 25, 2011)

I'll answer your request and show I'm not a gawker.  I think it's an excellent plan. 

Regarding the floor, wire is good with a shelf to catch the urine and poop.  If you go and look at Hoodat's excellent plan for waste removal, I think this would go well with your building plan.   Wood gets soaked with urine and is very hard to keep clean, IMHO.  That's why most breeders use wire cages. 

I think your plans for the winter and summer months are really thought out.  

Regarding cage size, if you plan to give them an exercise run, I think you can get away with the cage size you posted.

Rabbits love to dig and using cool dirt could be an advantage to keep them cool.  

Hope this comment helps.  All I can say is do what's best for you and your breeding herd.  You seem to have it figured out.  Just time to start with the buns.   BTW, which breed do you think you will go with?  That's also a consideration regarding cage size, but then again that exercise area is still a good idea.   New Zealands seem to be the big meat breed.  But I did read that Tans are good for meat and show.  And they are a smaller rabbit.   Just my thoughts thrown in there. 

Good Luck in your venture.


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## Theykeepmebusy (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm going to go FB with it....like...like...like.... like.....   I'm in the process of building a few 4 or 5 hutches/runs no plans tho, very spontaneous decision made yesterday


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## dewey (Aug 25, 2011)

Lean-to's like that for rabbits work really well.  I'm in one of the hottest places on earth so can't speak with much experience on severe cold-proofing (although the ranch up north commonly sees 40 degrees below but that's another issue).

Wire bottoms are the most sanitary and easy to maintain.  Wood is warmer but hard to clean.  Side shutters are good in cold weather as long as they keep rain out, and roll-down tarps can be used to drape/button up the entire set up as needed to keep the wind and elements out.  Some folks keep a box in the cages during the cold weather and/or practically stuff the whole cage with straw.

Even in our mild winters here in the desert we get sudden cold snaps and often the buns have no time to adjust from 80 degree hot spell days to below freezing nights.  In the winter I keep flakes of straw on top of the cages and stuffed between when possible, and also run a heater in the barn to keep it above freezing in the coldest times ...but usually not needed but for the harsh sudden changes.  Sudden temp changes are hard on them.       

West exposures are great in winter but killers in summer without shade all day.

That size divided in half is fine for 2 large meat rabbits.  Keep in mind it's difficult to reach corners of a 3' deep cage even if the doors are centered.  If the cages are going to sit on the wood supports, adding small 4x2" blocks on the top of the wood beams to support/elevate the cages somewhat off the main beams for cleaning will be of great help.  They usually have to be wired on at the bottoms to prevent cage movement (which creates cleaning hassles).  Even then you'll have to lift the cages several times a week to scrub the wood beams and blocks to keep them half way sanitary.  Any place that wood touches the wire will quickly build up.  Lifting the cages and reaching under the cages to the back to clean wood supports of even 28" deep cages is no easy task.

Cages hung from the roof so that wood beams under the cages aren't needed is a great way.  It's easier to work out the bugs beforehand than to alter afterwards.  Good luck!  All the great meat is worth all the effort.


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## secuono (Aug 26, 2011)

I have no idea what breed, was going to post a thread about that. If I use a wood water stain or high gloss paint, won't that help with keeping the muck from soaking in?


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## Bossroo (Aug 26, 2011)

For the most sanitary bottom wire conditions... Instead of the wood for floor support for under the wire cages... streatch 2 heavy gage wires, 1/3 of the way from each side under the cages and attach that wire to the long  end of the cage end wood pieces, then  clip that wire and wire cage bottom together. This will give you plenty of support for the bottom wires. The dirt in a box may sound good, however the small amount of dirt in a container ( unlike in the great outdoors) will heat up to ambient temperature in short order so the rabbits won't benefit from it. Also, female rabbits are very territorial, so the play area will not be very practical as more often than not, the female  will display aggression toward the male causing him stress and/ or physical damage. Not to mention the male will breed the female within seconds every chance that he can get. She will get pregnant every time too. (The female rabbit can/ will get pregnant right after kindling.) Overpopulation  and animal hoarding in quick order.


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## secuono (Aug 26, 2011)

They won't be out together unless I divide the run. 
Any pics of the stretched wire idea?


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## secuono (Aug 26, 2011)

Hah, ok, well I kinda messed up a wee bit. But it's looking ok so far. I'm making the back clap board style, it'll match the house that way and easier to do. A big bit of wood to go up on the back won't fit in either car, no trucks for us..
Ran outta 2x3 at 6ft, had to use fence boards for that and that's what is on the back. Not sure what I will use for the roof just yet. Gotta put up the wire on the sides and then make and put up the front doors. 
Oh the fun I'm having!!


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## secuono (Aug 26, 2011)

Sides are just tied on, won't finish until tomorrow.


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## Bossroo (Aug 27, 2011)

Are you building this coop on your back porch?  I see that you may possibly have a fungas growing ( white within the dark area) on the bottom of the wall on the building (in the photo... between the pen's legs). I hope not!        If so, and if it was mine,  I would replace those boards, sooner than later, and any others that have this and any dry rot ( soft wood when using a nail or finger nail then pocking to test) on any others as well as on the porch.         This may become much more costly in the future if not attended to.       I wish you luck!


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## Legacy (Aug 27, 2011)

LOL, I can tell that's not fungus growing, that's an all around fix-it-all. It's called great stuff. I recognize it because we have it in a lot of places in our house.


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 27, 2011)

We winter rabbits in virginia in an outside hutch system. our hutche has a 2x2 wire front part and a 2x2 plywood back part, with a 2 inch gap all around the top where the roof is. That is the demensions for each rabbit space, the entire hutch hold 4 rabbits, so it is 8 feet by 4 feet total and heavy as all get out. 

We put straw in the 2x2 spaces over the winter and wrapped the back half and side with plastic, that was the only shelter we offered them. They were fine. My father in law, has an even more opened up pen desisgn, were is cages are 4x4 all wire with a slanted metal rood over the top and a small nesting box set in each one for kindling and shelter for the rabbit, In the winter he puts old carpet over the top back and sides, and straw in the nest boxes. He kindles all year round with great success. 

He has been raising rabbits all his life in virginia and he feels the warm summers can be more of a problem,  Our hutch is up under some nice shade trees, but his is out in the open, with only the rood to offer shade to them,. They seem to do fine. He also uses rabbit tractos to get them out on pasture and they do quit well.  Our hutch and his hutches are all just on the dirt, with wire floors to allow the poop to come through and then we clean out under them and use the manure in the gardens. 


Feel free to ask other questions.


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## secuono (Aug 27, 2011)

Yea, it's Great Stuff expanding foam. House needs work all around, lol, we're getting to it. 
Yes, it's on the deck. Might move it straight back onto the ground between the 5ft fence and the deck. Or drag it all around the house to..idk where yet, lol. Painted the wire with Rustolium and painted the wood with the same color as the house. 
I'm more worried about the summer heat. The chickens can go as they please and they have a fan on max 24/7 from spring to fall. So not much issue for them. No idea what I'll do for the buns. Don't want, nor have the space, to have them in the house for any time.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 27, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> Yea, it's Great Stuff expanding foam. House needs work all around, lol, we're getting to it.
> Yes, it's on the deck. Might move it straight back onto the ground between the 5ft fence and the deck. Or drag it all around the house to..idk where yet, lol. Painted the wire with Rustolium and painted the wood with the same color as the house.
> I'm more worried about the summer heat. The chickens can go as they please and they have a fan on max 24/7 from spring to fall. So not much issue for them. No idea what I'll do for the buns. Don't want, nor have the space, to have them in the house for any time.


We all have stuff to fix around the house. lol!  

Think it's coming along just fine.  Better half, who's profession is inspecting structures, said looks good but has just one suggestion.  More support to hold the cages.  Other than that, we think it's great you can move to anywhere you want as you do the rest of the fixing up.   Can't wait to see it when it's done and has bunnies in it. 

Edited to add:  Regarding the heat, understand your worries.  But there are plenty of ways to keep them cool.  Many ideas on this forum.  Plus if it really gets hot, you can always bring them temporarily inside.  Don't feel bad keeping them outside.  Many thrive outside.  Just read 20kid's post.  And others who do.  Yes, heat can kill any animal.  You just do your best when it comes.   Don't fret too much.


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## secuono (Aug 27, 2011)

Ok, here is a sketch up of how it will look when it's done.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 27, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> Ok, here is a sketch up of how it will look when it's done.
> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...14909894_100000705527207_839286_5074733_n.jpg


Excellent sketch. I like the design and is something I will consider when I get my breeding pair.   Only thing I would add are two more supports to support the wire crates.


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## secuono (Aug 27, 2011)

There are no crates and it's not to scale. I used 2x3s and then 1x6 wood fence boards for the back and roof. The bottom, front and two short sides are nothing but wire. I'm thinking of fencing up the bottom to let one out at a time to hop in the grass.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 27, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> There are no crates and it's not to scale. I used 2x3s and then 1x6 wood fence boards for the back and roof. The bottom, front and two short sides are nothing but wire. I'm thinking of fencing up the bottom to let one out at a time to hop in the grass.


Interesting.  Making a small exercise run under the hutch.  I've seen that before.   Thanks for the further explanation of your design.  Good Luck.  Please post the finished product.


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## secuono (Aug 27, 2011)

It's raining because of the hurricane, so everything is on hold until it stops long enough that I can do something. Don't have bottom wire though...


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 27, 2011)

We are working on designing plans for a new hutch system and that is pretty similar to what we will do, with a removable nesting box set about 2 inches down into the floor of the pen,the 2 inch drop into the nesting box is to allow the kits to fall back into the nesting box, if they get dragged out by accident. My father N' Law says, he has lost several kits over the years by staying attached to long to the underside of the doe and getting dragged out and when the nest box has an elevated edge, the kit can't find its way back in. so he designed a hole in the floor to set a next box into it, so the kit has somewhat of a chance to get back into the box,  

His nest box is a closed rectangle with just one end opened on it, He attached a trim of wood all the way around the outside 2 inches from the bottom, so when he sets the nest box into the hole in the floor of the cage(the size of the nest box), it wont go all the way through, it stops 2 inches below the wire floor of the cage,.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 27, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> We are working on designing plans for a new hutch system and that is pretty similar to what we will do, with a removable nesting box set about 2 inches down into the floor of the pen,the 2 inch drop into the nesting box is to allow the kits to fall back into the nesting box, if they get dragged out by accident. My father N' Law says, he has lost several kits over the years by staying attached to long to the underside of the doe and getting dragged out and when the nest box has an elevated edge, the kit can't find its way back in. so he designed a hole in the floor to set a next box into it, so the kit has somewhat of a chance to get back into the box,
> 
> His nest box is a closed rectangle with just one end opened on it, He attached a trim of wood all the way around the outside 2 inches from the bottom, so when he sets the nest box into the hole in the floor of the cage(the size of the nest box), it wont go all the way through, it stops 2 inches below the wire floor of the cage,.


Thank you for sharing your Father N' Law's removable nesting box design.  Kits who cling getting back where they belong.  Something that worried me also.   Definitely something to include in my breeding stock hutch.


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## secuono (Aug 27, 2011)

Went out in the rain and finished the back wall and put up 1 board for the roof. Going to do the roof just like the back, clapboard style. Gotta wait for the rain to stop so I can be on a ladder to finish it up. Then time for wire and making doors...somehow.


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## secuono (Aug 28, 2011)

Got the roof up and all nearly finished painting. Gotta get more screws and 2 more boards for the over hang.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 28, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> Got the roof up and all nearly finished painting. Gotta get more screws and 2 more boards for the over hang.


Way to go!  Even in a Hurricane nothing deters the building of the hutch.   We are still experiencing rain and wind.  Couldn't build anything out where I am if I wanted to because of it.  Can't wait till it all dies down.  Even had tornado watches last night called for in this area along with flooding.  Time for Irene to leave.


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## secuono (Aug 28, 2011)

I think I will paint the ceiling too. That way it's all bright and tidy. 
I'm using to dry some towels..lol. The hole the dryer vent goes through is also the hole the cats use to get out onto their deck.


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## ~Wind~ (Aug 28, 2011)

It's looking really good! Wanna come build me some? I'm excited to see the rabbits in it. 
What are your plans for a dropping collection systems? Or did you already say and I missed it?


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## secuono (Aug 28, 2011)

Prolly just tie on a tarp and funnel to a bucket. Thinking of making a cat hutch, lol. If your near I could make you one.


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## secuono (Aug 28, 2011)

Dragged it up off the deck, around the house and under the Mulberry tree. Great wind, tons of shade nearly all the time and I can see them from the bathroom!


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## secuono (Aug 28, 2011)

Got most of the bottom in. My staple gun kinda sucks, so..I guess I need to use a hammer too.


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## secuono (Aug 29, 2011)

Bottom and short sides are up. Not sure how to do the front w/the doors...


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## secuono (Aug 29, 2011)

Hey! Dang near done! One door is squared, the other is off. Idk if I should tear it apart and retry or just leave it and figure a way to attach it...lol. Gonna get piano hinges, spray paint and then paint the left over bits tomorrow and I'm ready for rabbits! 
Now, if only I could FIND rabbits close by...  :/


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## Ms. Research (Aug 30, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> Hey! Dang near done! One door is squared, the other is off. Idk if I should tear it apart and retry or just leave it and figure a way to attach it...lol. Gonna get piano hinges, spray paint and then paint the left over bits tomorrow and I'm ready for rabbits!
> Now, if only I could FIND rabbits close by...  :/
> http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hpho...84802327_100000705527207_842747_5255946_n.jpg


I'd leave it and figure out how to attach the second door.  Also need to remove the wood/earth contact at the legs.  That will help avoid the wooden legs rotting faster.  Put bricks or something underneath the legs to stop the water from wicking up the leg and rotting the wood faster.  

But looks great.  Yes, and it will be tough finding the rabbits you need.  Finding out that myself.  Lots out there but do your research for what YOU want.  

Good Luck.  Look forward to seeing more.


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 30, 2011)

There is someone in berrysville, virginia selling, silver fox, californian and new zealands.


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## secuono (Aug 30, 2011)

Done! Well, needs paint here and there and I may add a board or two and what not, but that's all just extras, not needed. 
Got a pair of Silver Fox rabbits from a lady in Reva. They are 6mo and she is 2lbs heavier than him! She was telling me how her NZ are mean and jumpy and the SF are far more calm, so that's what I went with, plus they are far prettier to look at!


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## secuono (Aug 30, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> secuono said:
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I'll buy some pavers or something tomorrow for the legs to sit on.


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 30, 2011)

that just makes me mad. I have been trying for 6 months to get a pair or trio of silver fox.  Grrrr....


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## secuono (Aug 30, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> that just makes me mad. I have been trying for 6 months to get a pair or trio of silver fox.  Grrrr....


I'm sure if you want them from this lady, she will have more soon. 
http://charlottesville.craigslist.org/grd/2508761578.html


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 30, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

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I looked up the location, 1 1/2 hour drive, not bad considering I have been on a waiting list with someone for 6 months in Maryland, 5 hours one way.   

Can you tell me what she had as far as breeding stock goes?  Did she just have a couple or is she able to offer a nice pair or trio? 

Did she seem pretty experienced and did any showing with them?


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## Ms. Research (Aug 30, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> secuono said:
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IMHO 20kidson, I'd call myself.  As a livestock breeder, whatever the breed, you would know what to ask and know more than the average person starting out.  Also you would know what to ask about the line of breeding.   Just my opinion.  

Also another opinion thrown out there for you, I would look more into meat than show for your Silver Foxes.   If there are not many ARBA shows in your area (read your response on another thread) why go purebred.  I don't blame you regarding the driving part.  Most of the shows I found on the ARBA were in OH, PA, 2 in New Jersey.  I don't even know if I want to start driving that far.  Expense of gas.  

To Secuono, glad to see the bunnies in your newly built hutch.


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## secuono (Aug 31, 2011)

I was going to say to call her, too. It was much nicer than I expected, but who knows if there was something I missed or didn't get cus I don't know what to look for. Everyone had food and water and a clean cage. Said she got the grandparents from a breeder, had papers, but doesn't care for that[neither do I]. She breeds to sell to a restaurant up north. The Netherland dwarfs were adorable. She was explaining all sorts of things to be about different breeds and weights and anything else she could help me out with. She had more NZ but wanted to sell them off in time and get more SF, since they seem to be the nicest and a bit faster to maturing and all. I think she has little SFs, but I was only interested in the older juveniles, so I didn't really notice any.
Cal her, shes a nice person. She told me to call or email if I had any issues and wanted to trade for another or if I had any Qs and such.


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 31, 2011)

I sent you my e-mail in an PM or you can send her that or give me her information back through a PM. thanks


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## secuono (Aug 31, 2011)




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## Ms. Research (Aug 31, 2011)

Nice.  Is that the doe or the buck?


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## secuono (Sep 1, 2011)

Buck, doe is not photogenic, lol. Myabe cus her side has sun from the back and it kept messing with the camera..


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 1, 2011)

this is a very nice buck, does your doe have that much silvering as well? The one we picked up is 6 months old, but almost all black, hardly no silvering.  

I would like to get a pair that is a little more correct, she has a nice big body and she is old enough to start breeding, so I went ahead and got her, but I was dissapointed with the amount of silvering on ther blood-line, known of them really had much.  

We also got a crazy as a hoot new ZEaland Red doe that is 3 months old that my son wanted to try. He said he really liked the red color, thing at this time all we have is those two does to work with and a new zealand/rex cross buckling fromour stock, hopefully we will be enjoying rabbit stew in the middle of the winter. 

I will call that women, We actually have friends in ruckersville with a pond that let us go fishing, so maybe we can go fishing for a few hours and then pick up a couple rabbits.  

Thanks for the info.   and sharing pictures of you new hutch and rabbits.


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## secuono (Sep 1, 2011)

Yea, she looks just like him, only 2lbs heavier.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 1, 2011)

She's impressive as well.  Does she have more brown in her or is that the lighting?  Love the silvering.  Especially on her face.  Can't wait to see the kits.  

Good Luck.  Keep us posted.


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## secuono (Sep 2, 2011)

If I had high speed internet I could link a video, it would show their real colors better. I'll try to get a better pic. They both have a cool rusty brown mixed in the black.


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## secuono (Sep 5, 2011)

Here is a pic I drew that gives you a basic idea of the brown coloring on them. It is not on the back nor underside. Just around the head and down along both sides of the rabbit.


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## oneacrefarm (Sep 6, 2011)

If they were kept outside, then the brown is from the sun. They should lose it when they molt. Oh, and did you give your buns resting boards? I ask because your floors are quite large and if they flex much, the rabbits will be prone to getting sore hocks. A good resting board should take care of it. Congrats, your rabbits are lovely and the setup is very nice!

Shannon


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## secuono (Sep 6, 2011)

oneacrefarm said:
			
		

> If they were kept outside, then the brown is from the sun. They should lose it when they molt. Oh, and did you give your buns resting boards? I ask because your floors are quite large and if they flex much, the rabbits will be prone to getting sore hocks. A good resting board should take care of it. Congrats, your rabbits are lovely and the setup is very nice!
> 
> Shannon


Yes, but I haven't seen them using them yet.


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