# Skinny horses?



## dianneS (Jun 9, 2011)

Is there ever a valid reason for skinny horses with visible ribs, spine, and hip bones showing?

I know as horses age, it gets harder for them to keep weight on, but isn't it the responsibility of the owner to keep that horses weight normal?

I was visiting a friend who has several older horses.  Their ages range from 15-30.  ALL of them were skinny.  I was giving the "older horse" excuse and I know that this person takes good care of the horses and is well informed about equine nutrition, supplements etc, so I'm confused as to why these horses look so bad?


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## RockyToggRanch (Jun 9, 2011)

I have an old horse who struggles with founder. I have to be careful not to put weight on him. He gets more grain and hay pellets than my big fat QH mare, but still looks skinny. He's a twh and they're typically a more narrow horse anyway, but he looks thin. He is in the best health he can be in and is happy and pain free. But if you didn't see me feed him 3lbs of feed a day and unlimted hay...you might not think I was caring for him well enough.


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## chubbydog811 (Jun 9, 2011)

Sometimes with older horses they just need a little extra. You can be feeding them more food than a running thoroughbred gets, and they can still look like crap (mind you, we have a 25 year old being boarded here, and he looks awesome. Just depends on the horse)

Younger horses are the same way as they are growing...I have a Belgian stallion who is just barely over 2 years old. You can tell when he went through a growth spurt - one day he will look nice and filled out, then a week later he will look like you never feed him.
For an older horse, adding beat pulp or a weight builder would help put weight back on (as would extra hay/grain). 

Back on topic - even if she is taking care of them pretty well, they might just need more. If you say she has *several ranging from age 15-30 that are ALL skinny*, then I hate to say, but I think it is her not feeding enough over old age.


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## carolinagirl (Jun 9, 2011)

15 is not old.  There should be no reason a 15 year old is hard to keep weight on.  Most of the higher end Dressage horses are in their teens.  The last several horses I had were all over 14 and all looked wonderful.   How many horses does she have?  I could buy the "old horse" excuse if it was just one or two out of a group, but if they are ALL thin, something isn't right.  It may be not enough food, they may need ther teeth floated or they may have parasites.


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## dianneS (Jun 9, 2011)

Four out of five are skinny in my opinion.  The youngest of the three is the only "normal" looking horse.

I have an 18 year old mare myself and she's a thoroughbred and a cribber.  She's looks great, absolutely beautiful I might add!  She doesn't get a bit of grain, she's on pasture 24-7 in the summer months and free choice hay in the winter.  Only if its extremely harsh in the winter do I slowly start feeding her small amounts of rolled oats, BOSS and a few senior pellets mixed in.  She has no trouble keeping weight on.

I was just concerned because it seems odd for someone so contientious to have such skinny horses?  I know that I've seen horses in their 30's look pretty thin and haggared and just thought "oh well, he is 30 after all." but for two of these horses to be in their teens, just seems odd?


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## carolinagirl (Jun 9, 2011)

You are kind of in a sticky situation since she is a friend.  If they are skinny to the point of starvation, I'd intervene, friend or not.  I'd call animal control or something.  But if you value the friendship, you have to tred carefully on this.  Show her pics of older horses who are of a good weight and gently explain to her that the two in their teens are NOT old enough to be having weight problems.  Ask her if their teeth have been checked lately.  

http://hher.webs.com/neglectstarvation.htm

This link will explain in great detail how to determine the level of body conditioning in horses.  Maybe you can use this to evaluate her animals or help her evaluate her animals so she might see that their weight is not normal.


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## dianneS (Jun 9, 2011)

I know a few of her horses are getting their teeth done this weekend.

I'm concerned about worms.  I don't think she uses chemical wormers, only natural/organic.  One horse's coat seemed to be falling out.  Not shedding, but falling out.  I rubbed his back and the hair literally came off.

The horses aren't starving, but very thin.  She knows she needs to work on their condition, I just don't understand why she let them get to this stage?  Unless its something that can't be helped, but I'm not sure I see any signs of that?


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## carolinagirl (Jun 9, 2011)

she needs to get a fecal done by a vet to see what the parasite load is. It may be that her natural dewormers are not enough.  Are you sure it's hair falling out or is it the last of the winter coat shedding?


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## patandchickens (Jun 9, 2011)

dianneS said:
			
		

> Is there ever a valid reason for skinny horses with visible ribs, spine, and hip bones showing?


Yes. For instance,

-- got horse recently, in process of putting weight on but it's a gradual thing (*extremely* gradual in some cases)

-- horse is ill (cancer, etc) and is impossible to put more weight *on* despite owner's best efforts

-- horse is being kept on skinny side for healthy reasons (this wouldn't be "spine" showing, but ribs showing certainly)



> I know as horses age, it gets harder for them to keep weight on, but isn't it the responsibility of the owner to keep that horses weight normal?<snip> I know that this person takes good care of the horses and is well informed about equine nutrition, supplements etc, so I'm confused as to why these horses look so bad?


Well of course it depends on how bad they really look. I mean there's "ribby saggy older horse" and then there's other things. And of course it also depends on whether by "old" you mean 20 or 30 or what.

But in general, while it would be nice to live in a world where all that it took to keep a horse in good health and good flesh was good intentions and hard work, it doesn't always work that way. As they age, their teeth become less efficient (and there is not that much a dentist can do), their digestive tract becomes less efficient, they may lose muscle mass (which covers bones) as their kidneys age, etc etc. There's only so much waving of magic wands that a person can do.

I would tend to suspect the hair is not "falling out" but rather it's simply the end of shedding and if they haven't been being groomed regularly (which is not a big deal) then yeah when you rub the horse a whole lot of "backlog" of loose hair can come out at once.

I really would not want to place bets from your description what the actual deal is. Maybe they are perfectly normal elderly horses and your eye is just calibrated differetnly. Maybe they are fairly normal but carrying a bit of a wormload and being expected to depend too much on pasture that they can no longer process as well as they used to. Maybe they were allowed to get skinny over the winter and they just haven't bounced back yet. Or maybe it really is a serious situation. <shrug>

If you think it's serious, call Animal Control or etc.  If you don't think it's *that* serious but you think they're like a 2 on body condition score, print out the standard body condition scoring chart for the owner. If you look at the condition-scoring chart and think they're at least a 2.5 or 3, then maybe it is not such a big issue.

Good luck,

Pat


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## dianneS (Jun 9, 2011)

She's had all of these horses for many many years.  One horse does have cancer, and that is the skinniest of all of them.

The others just might be "saggy ribby older horses" although I think they're a bit thinner than just "ribby".  They have long toes too that are overdue for a trim, but none of them are being ridden right now.

I know that these horses don't get vaccinated or chemical wormers and probably haven't seen a vet in years, but they're not starving and they're not in a cruelty situation.

I guess I'll just keep an eye on things for now and make sure they're all getting the care they deserve.  I just worry about those who depend upon natural cures for everything.  Sometimes I think that "organic" lifestyle can be taken a bit too far.

My eye probably is just calibrated differently since most old horses I've known have always maintained healthy weight and looked great until the end of their lives, but that's just been my experience up until now.


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## carolinagirl (Jun 9, 2011)

I can understand wanting to use organic stuff for animals that we consume, but horses?  I am not sure why organic is necessary for them.  I suppose as long as fecals confirm that what she is doing is good enough then it probably doesn't matter.  I am glad the that you are concerned enough about the welfare of these horses to ask about it though.


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## patandchickens (Jun 9, 2011)

I would not pass judgement on the no-chemical-wormers thing, necessarily, without knowing more of the situation.

Chemical wormers are only necessary if you have significant wormload. In boarding barns (for instance) that is really universally the case; but in backyard circumstances, sometimes it's not.

I know a couple people who don't worm at all, period, ever. They have fecals done twice a year that always come back *fine*, and the horses hold their weight well and show no sign of worms. 

That said, if I had an older horse who was on the skinnier side of "okay", I would for sure be using ivermectin or having a fecal float done or both; but, do you know for sure she *hasn't* had any fecals done?

Pat


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## mydakota (Jun 10, 2011)

Age alone is not a reason for a horse to be skinny.  It just isn't.  There are some side-effects of age that make it more difficult to keep weight on.  Lack of teeth/poor condition of teeth, for instance.  But even then it can be done--it just requires more effort.  You might have to feed a lower-on-the-pecking order horse separately, or a horse who eats slower than its herdmates for one reason or another.  (lack of teeth for instance) If a horse is skinny, there is a reason and age alone isn't it. Age may exacerbate it, but it isn't the age itself. I am especially alarmed that she has several who are skinny.  One skinny horse in a herd of slick, fat, herdmates might have something medical going on, ( in which case it is incumbent upon the owner to get the vet out and get to the bottom of it).   Most of them are thin?  Your friend is not taking her stewardship seriously enough.  All that said, 15 isn't even old.  I would postulate, on the information given here  (realizing it isn't necessarily the whole picture) that your friend is not feeding/caring for her horses adequately.  If she can not or will not do that? She should not have them. 

This is my last foster mare.  These pics were taken _8 weeks_ apart.  The first ones are from the day she got here.  As you can see, THIS 15 year old mare had NO problem gaining/holding weight once someone actually started FEEDING her adequately.  Her teeth were bad when she came, and she was too weak to withstand the tranq to float them.  So for 3 weeks I took a mash made of Sr Feed/alf pellets/beet pulp/RedCell/corn oil every 2-3 hours around the clock. When she was strong enough (3 weeks in) I had her teeth floated.  The regimen was less grueling after that. She did great. But it took EFFORT.  Sometimes it is not enough to throw hay over the fence twice a day.


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## MissDanni (Jun 18, 2011)

I've found that with almost every horse I take in there are a few main problems when they come in looking skinny so I have my checklist I run down whenever I bring in a new horse.

1. Deworm - I don't want them bringing anything around that I don't want.

2. Teeth - If the horse hasn't been fed regularly, chances are no one has cared enough to tend to the teeth. Floating alone is not always enough, sometimes there are teeth that need to be removed, and there may very well be infection in the mouth. Taking a look at the poop can sometimes give you some insight, if you find lots of un-chewed pieces, this could be an indication of a problem.

3. Hooves - Sore hooves can cause a lack of appetite.

4. Food - Lots of food! I feed Timothy hay, they eat whatever they want whenever they want. Beet pulp, I soak it between feedings so its soft and easy to chew. This helps if they have teeth issues. Oats, I offer them oats after the beet pulp, to watch for a difference in the way they are taking in the food.

5. Water - My horses have water at all times. I have never had any problems with bloating. You would be surprised what a few days of having water will do for a horse. Most often its the main problem with horses I take in, they just have not been getting enough water.

6. Blood and fecal - I'm not religious about this all the time, but if I see a problem, or its a new horse to me, I want to be certain of whats going on inside.

7. Love - How much do you feel like eating when you're sad? Something as simply as grooming and talking to the horse can really change their overall well being.

Just a few suggestions from what I do myself. Everyone is different and so is every horse.

@mydakota - Amazing! You should feel very proud, you did a wonderful job. Bless you!


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