# Coccidiosis treatment for pregnant goat?



## Goatgirl47 (Nov 15, 2017)

What kind of cocci dewormer would be safe to give my Alpine doe, Annie? She is almost 3 months along in her first pregnancy, confirmed bred back in September via Ultrasound. 

Thanks!


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 15, 2017)

I've never treated a goat over 4 months old for cocci


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## Southern by choice (Nov 15, 2017)

What is the coccidia load?
Most adult goats will have some oocysts... that is normal.


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## rosti (Nov 16, 2017)

If this is the same poster/doe I saw on another forum with a very similar question, I'd say call your vet and find out because nobody seems to know.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 16, 2017)

rosti said:


> If this is the same poster/doe I saw on another forum with a very similar question, I'd say call your vet and find out because nobody seems to know.



I don't think it's because no one knows.

First off, what is a "cocci dewormer" ?

Does the goat need a coccidiostat or a wormer.  They aren't the same thing.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

Running a fecal isn't really an option - we don't have a microscope and the local vet has made mistakes before when running a fecal for us. So I am not positive that she has coccidia. 
I was reading an old thread a couple weeks ago and the goats in it had the same type of problem that I am dealing with in this doe, and turns out they had coccidia. 

Annie's been too thin since she was 2-3 months old and we've had multiple fecals run on her since then. This past summer she had barber pole worms (while the summer before she had a different type of worms which cleared up after a dose of SafeGuard), we treated her for it, and a different vet that lives far away from us (we only have him come here when we need multiple things done, or else it would be much too expensive) ran a fecal on her and she didn't have BP any more. 

The only reason we bred her is because she was looking pretty good and was just shy of 90 pounds. About a month after breeding she started looking thin again. We've tried many different kinds of feed (as well as BOSS, kelp, loose minerals, etc) but it just hasn't worked. I'm stumped. It wouldn't hurt to treat her for coccidia, would it (assuming the treatment is safe for her unborn kid)?

@rosti - I am probably the one, lol. We have talked to vets about it, and had fecals run, but nothing has really helped! I would sell her but I don't want to pass her on as a problem to someone else if she isn't in good health. Once (if ever) we get this cleared up she will be culled though.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

OneFineAcre said:


> I don't think it's because no one knows.
> 
> First off, what is a "cocci dewormer" ?
> 
> Does the goat need a coccidiostat or a wormer.  They aren't the same thing.



I want to treat her for cocci. Sorry, I am not very familiar with it and it's terms as this is my first time.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 16, 2017)

You can mail out a sample it is like $5 or $7 

If you wormed for BP did you follow up? Most dewormers treat 4th stage only

Have you copper bolused her?


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

Our vet told us it was a one time thing (?), so no, we did not treat again. We used Prohibit. 

We've copped bolused her (she has a very rough looking coat in addition to being thin) a couple times in the last few months, unfortunately it hasn't made a difference. 

I just read that one of the symptoms of cocci is diarrhea, if that is true in all cases then I guess this is not what she has. *sigh


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## lalabugs (Nov 16, 2017)

You can send out a fecal. Here is the website. 
http://www.midamericaagresearch.net/instructions.php


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## Southern by choice (Nov 16, 2017)

It can be a symptom. Not always.

If she had coccidiosis as a kid - there is a difference between havnig coccidia and coccidiosis-  then she may have permanent damage and may not ever be able to fully absorb nutrients, thus remain thin. Other goats can fall in the category - failure to thrive- with no known reason.

Worms are never a one time thing.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

Thank you all so much! I will probably send in fecal sample.  

SBC, I hope it isn't something really serious like that, although it seems likely. We would be better off butchering her.  
She has an overly healthy appetite and is coming close to eating us out of house and home (figuratively speaking, of course).


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 16, 2017)

Can you post a picture of her?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 16, 2017)

I agree with @OneFineAcre  - pictures are helpful.

Some goats mature slowly and there is nothing wrong.
It is good she has a healthy appetite.
Sometimes people think their goats are thin when they really aren't.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

I just took some pictures of her and I will upload them soon.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

Here are the pictures. She has a thick coat which makes it hard to see. She feels pretty bony, there is no fat around her backbone/hips.


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## samssimonsays (Nov 16, 2017)

I'm interested to hear if she is skinny or not. I had an alpine that looked like that her first 2 years. She's since filled out.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

samssimonsays said:


> I'm interested to hear if she is skinny or not. I had an alpine that looked like that her first 2 years. She's since filled out.



Would you happen to have pictures of her? I really hope that that is the case with my girl. She is about 21 months old right now.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 16, 2017)

If she were a hard working doe making alot of milk then you might say "understandable" but you are right she is too thin. She is also very small.
What breed is she?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 16, 2017)

...also is your herd tested, has she been tested for CAE. Johnes, CL?


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 16, 2017)

She's kind of thin for a 21 month old doe not in milk.
But, she also looks tiny for an Alpine.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

She is an Alpine, was supposed to be a purebred but as y'all may remember, her twin sister was marked like a Toggenburg so she may have a little Togg in her ancestry.
She is just barely shorter than our Saanen and Lamancha does, who are both 19 months old. Her mama was a petite doe, so that combined with her (under)weight problem may be why she is on the smaller side. I should probably mention that her twin sister was thin at around 2-3 months old as well. She also had a slight hay belly, but wasn't as skinny as Annie was/is. We sold her back in January.

Yes, we test our adult goats annually for Johnes, CAE and CL. The most recent test was this past October, all of the goats including Annie came back negative.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 16, 2017)

You should follow the others advice and get a fecal.
I've never treated a bred doe for coccidia so I have no advice there.
But, she may just be small. It may just be her nature.
She looks healthy over all.


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## babsbag (Nov 16, 2017)

I have a doe that I fight to keep weight on. I don't have to deal with BP worms, thankfully, but she did have tape worms. I treated her with Valbazen, gave her a multi-min shot, put out a cobalt block, and fed her separately...all night long she had access to her own feeder, hay and goat pellets.  I also put her on the milk stand for grain but never milked her, she was raising a doeling. I started top dressing all the does grain with Probiotics and manna pro Goat Balancer so she was getting that too. It has taken almost 6 months but she looks 100% better, but it sure does take time.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 16, 2017)

Babsbag, thanks for letting me know that! One of our Nubians went down with a heavy load of BP worms late last May (we had just bought her and her 5 day old buckling), and now finally, for the first time in months, she is looking great. I don't know how much she weighs now but in May she was barely 50 pounds, poor girl. We also lost a young buckling last July to BP.  I am not looking forward to next spring/summer when the worms will be more prevalent.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 16, 2017)

Cobalt deficiency can cause unthriftiness, poor body condition, etc

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/nutrition/cobaltsulfate2.shtml
https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/livestock-biosecurity/cobalt-deficiency-sheep-and-cattle
http://www.acga.org.au/goatnotes/C002.php


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 16, 2017)

How much are you feeding her? What kind of hay? Hay quality?

I would send the fecal out to a different lab and ask for her to be check for Cocci and Giardia, along with the other typical goat parasites. Some fecal solutions can crush the eggs, so they may not show up on the slide.

I would also (if possible) have a mineral analysis run- it's not perfect but might show you something.

I have never treated an adult/pregnant goat for cocci, so don't know what you'd use. 

I may have missed it, but how is her FAMCHA?


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 16, 2017)

You said "she is supposed to be purebred"
Is she registered ?
I know Alpines can be different colors but I've never seen on that color
How much does she weigh?


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## babsbag (Nov 16, 2017)

I have Alpines that are American because their  grand dam is 25% togg.  It is a common color in my herd.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 18, 2017)

Goat Whisperer said:


> How much are you feeding her? What kind of hay? Hay quality?
> 
> I would send the fecal out to a different lab and ask for her to be check for Cocci and Giardia, along with the other typical goat parasites. Some fecal solutions can crush the eggs, so they may not show up on the slide.
> 
> ...



We are giving her 2-3 cups of grain twice a day, and are gradually increasing her intake of alfalfa hay. She shares horse quality round bales with most of the other goats (some are in a different pen, but have the same kind of hay). 
I am thinking about pulling her and another goat (for company) out of their pasture, and putting them in a smaller run so she doesn't have as much competition for food (although she is one of the bossiest goats we have), and doesn't have to go as far for it.

I need to check her FAMACHA again, but last time I checked it was a nice, healthy pink. We are going to send in a fecal sample ASAP!




OneFineAcre said:


> You said "she is supposed to be purebred"
> Is she registered ?
> I know Alpines can be different colors but I've never seen on that color
> How much does she weigh?



She is not registered but her dam was, and I'm not sure about her sire but I think he was too. In August she was almost 90 pounds but I will weigh her again today.


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## babsbag (Nov 18, 2017)

Her dam could be registered grade and have Togg in them. It seems to be a pretty strong color trait. I own one Togg and she was bred to a ND last year and both her kids were Togg marked.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 18, 2017)

I have a friend who has an alpine colored similar to @Goatgirl47 's doe. 

She actually had two, dam and daughter. 
They actually had less white and more of the brown color. 

I asked if she ever had any issues showing them, she said she hadn't because the doe had a large white splash on her side. Can't remember- but I think her does didn't have the facial markings either. 

Had another born with the same color this year too.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 18, 2017)

I don't know if y'all remember (it's been a long time since her kidding thread), but Annie's dam was marked like a Toggenburg except for a splash of white on each side.


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## oxford (Nov 22, 2017)

Hi there......over 20 years of drinking raw goat's milk from my own herd, I have never, never given them any worming medications:   it would make me very sick.   Instead, I give a bit of apple cider vinegar, daily on their feed...sometimes essential oils, also cinnamom powder works real well.   Goat's are really bark eaters and fresh pine or cedar branches will deworm them too.....let them eat what they like.   Sheep as well.


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## Goatgirl47 (Nov 22, 2017)

oxford said:


> Hi there......over 20 years of drinking raw goat's milk from my own herd, I have never, never given them any worming medications:   it would make me very sick.   Instead, I give a bit of apple cider vinegar, daily on their feed...sometimes essential oils, also cinnamom powder works real well.   Goat's are really bark eaters and fresh pine or cedar branches will deworm them too.....let them eat what they like.   Sheep as well.



Thanks for the tips! I really do need to start putting ACV in their water. 
What essential oils do you give them?


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