# baby with the runs



## animalcrazy31 (Sep 17, 2009)

i have a 3 1/2 to 4 month old little buck that all of sudden has the runs. i havent changed his grain or hay and it wasnt out of the pen yesterday becuase of rain but between sometime last night and today he has the runs. what could be causeing it? and how do i stop them? he was wormed two weeks ago when i got him it couldn't be worms could it? he's still happy and playing. its almost a grayish color that looks like cement that was just mixed with water and stired with to much water


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## lilhill (Sep 17, 2009)

I would take a sample to the Vet and have him check for worms/Cocci.  Could be salmonella, E-Coli?  Before I started throwing meds at him, I'd want to know what I was treating.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 17, 2009)

_Gray_ diarrhea...well, that's new.  Never heard of that before.  Was it gray when wet, or did it _dry_ to a gray color on his hiney?

Usually if it's dietary, it's dark, like green or brownish green, and the consistency could be similar to what you're describing if I'm reading right...like thin pudding, perhaps.  If it were really liquid -- like, _very_ watery -- I'd be thinking bacterial or some kind of protozoan, especially if it were yellowish or perhaps blood tinted or mucousy.

For some reason, I can kinda see thin greenish or brownish poo drying to look sorta gray.  I dunno if that's because I've seen it before on goats or cattle or maybe because I'm having a weird psychic moment, but for some reason I have this image in my head of gray-looking dried poo on a ruminant animal's hind end...and the image doesn't strike me as particularly disturbing.

I dunno...I'm really weird sometimes, so forgive me if I'm making no sense.  

Also...the fact that he's still happy and playing, versus being depressed and off feed, standing around hunched up with his head low and generally acting puny, makes me think this is just "one of those things."  My guess is that he'll be loafy before too long, then on to light colored clumpy pellets, and back to licorice jellybeans by Saturday afternoon or Sunday morning with no medical intervention.

That's my guess...and it's just that -- a guess.  Take it for what it cost ya.

That said, if it were me, I'd probably just keep an eye on him for the time being...make sure he keeps acting OK.  If he starts acting depressed, that's a whole different story.


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## animalcrazy31 (Sep 17, 2009)

the only dry poop ive seen was on his butt it was like a dark gray almost black maybe with a greenish tint. the rest is just puddles of it i gs i could be like mixed pudding itastjust plain water. its kinda like a tanish gray.as soon as i go outside hes yelling at me to come play so hes acting like his silly self it just has be freaked out since im new to goats. he was kinda bloated after eating a bounch of grass and pine trees could that do it?


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## cmjust0 (Sep 17, 2009)

Dark with greenish tint, pudding, dried gray or tan, puddles (more like 'plops,' I'm guessing), still playing, previous gorging on grass and pine, still happy and acting silly..

Sounds dietary to me..  I wouldn't do much but continue to watch him pretty closely until he firms back up.

Two things, though...

1) Be careful when you say a goat "bloated" in a conversation about diarrhea, lest folks start telling you to bombard him with C&D antitoxin on account of the diarrhea possibly being related to a clostridial bloom and how his life is in danger, etc..  Bloat is different than a full rumen, which noobs -- no offense  -- often mistake for true bloat.

When they truly bloat, their left side will be distended to the point that it's higher than the rest of the topline (when viewed from the rear) and tight like a drum.  They generally act pretty uncomfortable, too.  A goat with a full rumen doesn't distend to that point before burping out the excess gas.

2)


			
				ac31 said:
			
		

> i gs i could be like mixed pudding itastjust plain water.


Did you just say that you could be like mixed pudding, but that you taste just plain water?

If so, then A) I think you're probably underestimating yourself, and B) there's no need to taste the diarrhea to make an accurate diagnosis.

If that's not what you said...in the words of Chris Tucker to Jackie Chan..._What the hell did you just say?_


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## ksalvagno (Sep 17, 2009)

Many things could cause loose stool. Since you are new to goats, I would suggest taking a sample to the vet like lillhill said. Make sure they check for cocci as well as the usual parasites. You are better safe than sorry and as you become more educated, then you can make better educated decisions when it comes up again.


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## animalcrazy31 (Sep 17, 2009)

sorry my keyboard messes up sometimes from little ones fingers. i ment to say i guess it could be like mixed pudding.it wasnt just like plain water. that would explain the burping and the passing gas yesterday morning. it does look more like plops on the ground.i'm still trying to find a vet in the area that deals with goats it seems like everyone around here deals with horses and large animals but wont see a goat i don't get it. i thought all vets if they saw large farm animals would also see goats.


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## lilhill (Sep 17, 2009)

You really don't have to take your goat to the Vet, just scoop up a sample of the poop, put it into a baggie and take that.  They can run a check to see what's going on with your little boy.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 17, 2009)

ac31 said:
			
		

> sorry my keyboard messes up sometimes from little ones fingers.


Actually, I meant to throw a  in there somewhere to make sure you knew I was just being goofy...but I forgotted.

So...  

Anyway..sorry..  



			
				ac31 said:
			
		

> i ment to say i guess it could be like mixed pudding.it wasnt just like plain water. that would explain the burping and the passing gas yesterday morning. it does look more like plops on the ground.


I say this without being able to physically lay hands and eyes on the goat, of course, but it's sounding more and more like a dietary upset to me.  

Really, I'd just keep an eye on him till it firms up just to make sure he doesn't turn off bad in the meantime.  I don't suspect he will, though...I really think he'll be jim dandy in a few short days.



			
				ac31 said:
			
		

> i'm still trying to find a vet in the area that deals with goats it seems like everyone around here deals with horses and large animals but wont see a goat i don't get it. i thought all vets if they saw large farm animals would also see goats.


Goats are a challenge, not only to those of us who raise them, but to vets as well.  Literature is lacking..  Research is lacking..  Vet schools don't teach much about goats..  There aren't even that many goat-approved products in the US, so the vast majority of what _anybody_ uses or does to a goat is sort of an exercise in off-label freestyle wingin' it..  There's definitely an art aspect to "goat docterin'," I can see how that would fall outside a lot of vets' comfort zones.  They tend to be all sciency and stuff.

Not to mention...if I were a vet without much of a background in goats, would I really take much time to learn about them?  Well, considering "total goat replacement" can be accomplished with 100% success for the low-low price of $40 at the local sale barn...probably not.  Afterall, nobody in their right mind would spend more than $40 to save a $40 farm animal, and that's how a lot of vets think...regardless of the fact that the majority goat owners aren't in their right minds to begin with...  Individual results may vary, of course, but I _know_ I'm nuts, soo...

Anyway...keep looking for a vet.  You'll eventually find one who will see your goats.  The ability to get them in the door of a clinic really is better than nothing, because even if they don't know the first thing about a goat, they have prescription pads and you have the intarwebs..    Put those two together and lots of magical things become possible that simply aren't when you're sitting alone in your barn, petting a dying goat.

Actually, my experience is that once you get to know the vet pretty well and they realize you're actually contributing to their knowledgebase by effectively donating practice goats and the fruit of endless hours of your own personal research, it's not a stretch to call up one day and say..."I need a bottle of Epinephrine," for instance -- and get it...no questions asked.


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## Mini-M Ranch (Sep 17, 2009)

ONE of our four goats has met ONE of our two vets.  We are VERY lucky to have two vets in the same office that not only see goats, but own goats themselves.  And their office is only 12 minutes from my house!  YAY!  AND they are CHEAP!  Am I bragging?  I might be. 

I hope you find one.  Do you know anyone else who has goats?  Of have you seen goats in anybody's pastures?  I'd stop and ask them if they use a vet and who they are using.   But then, I have that sort of "stop by and ask somebody weird questions" sort of personality.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 17, 2009)

I was told by some goat people in my area to never, ever, ever go to the vets we go to because they're terribly expensive and they don't have a clue as to what they're doing when it comes to goats.

False, false, and false.  

Wait, no, false, and false...I only made two points.

Anyway, they're not that expensive with large animals, and they seem to know more about goats than I'd frankly expect a vet to know.  

One of the docs is kind of a 'sleeper' when it comes to goats, I think...  I got in a conversation with her about copper a while back and she told me to be extra careful with it and how it's much preferred to have a copper deficiency situation than a copper toxicity situation in goats and how it's stored in the liver and can be released quickly and precipitate a hemolytic crisis, etc...

I was like...wow, you know goats, huh!?  

She sorta brushed that off, going on to say that she'd simply spent a great deal of time working with a really good goat vet -- can't remember the name -- but that this other vet was widely considered to be one of the most knowledgeable goat vets in the nation..  

I'm not sure if she just doesn't want to work with goats anymore so she typically keeps that little nugget of info to herself around here, or if she just doesn't really consider that the level of understanding among vets is so low where goats are concerned that she's probably already learned more about goats through pure osmosis than most others learn in a lifetime..

I'm thinking I'm going to request her instead of one of my other two go-to guys at some point...just to see what happens.


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## animalcrazy31 (Sep 17, 2009)

i like the idea about stop and ask actualy did that a few times to see if the sold goats lol. when i asked about a vet they looked at me like i was crazy and asked whats a vet we do everything ourselves. got to love being in the middle of no where


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## Roll farms (Sep 19, 2009)

If it's EARLY stage cocci, it sometimes doesn't affect how they act so much.  I'd still get a fecal ran (just take in the fresh poo and ask for a cocci check...) and make sure.  If he had a bloom hard enough to make him have gray poo, I'd worry about the next 'wave' to hit.
The only time I've seen poo that color was in a new kid infested w/ a high cocci count.
Good luck!


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## kimmyh (Sep 19, 2009)

Grey poop generally means the animal is not getting the benefit of the nutrition that is going in the front end. 

I would call the vet, and/or take the goat in. There are just way too many reasons for poop changes to try to cover on a forum like this. Each herd is different, and each location may present challenges none of us would have considered. Sorry, I'd love to tell you I gave the magic bullet, but it just wouldn't be fair to your goat.


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