# Clover Pasture Problems-Killing Cattle



## goodhors (Jul 20, 2010)

Our newspaper just had an article about the damp spring and how fast the clover is growing in Kentucky, which is causing gas problems in cattle.

The condition is called "frothy bloat" and it can easily be fatal.  The clover causes a foam inside which prevents them from burping, so gas builds up causing the stomach to expand, which presses on the diaphragm.  That can lead to suffocation.

This is just a heads up, might be time to do some pasture mowing, or clover spraying to be ahead of the problem.  Many dead cattle in Kentucky, according to the article in big and small farms.

I am not sure if this could affect your sheep and goats as well.  They also have the fermentation gasses in their digestive system.

This site had information on frothy bloat.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/vm122


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## amysflock (Jul 20, 2010)

Wow, I would kill for an over-abundance of clover in our pastures. I can't imagine spraying it.

What I would do instead is let the cattle out to graze in the late afternoon/early evening after they've filled their bellies with hay. This would help cut down on clover overeating, and could give the morning dew time to burn off.

I'd also keep mineral oil and a tube, and a trocar for emergencies, close by, just in case.


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## WildRoseBeef (Jul 21, 2010)

I agree with amy, I wouldn't do any herbicide spraying of clover, as you might end up with no clover when you want to have clover.  I also would stay away from even mowing the clover, as clover or alfalfa in the growth stage is far more dangerous to causing bloat to cattle than they are when they reach maturity.  It doesn't always have to do with the time of day that you are grazing your cattle!

As amy mentioned, it's more wiser to take such precautions as putting the animals out in the afternoon after they're bellies are full of hay or when they are not hungry.  Also have a bloat-block on hand (salt block that has bloat-prevention med in it) when they are out grazing in the clover fields.


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## goodhors (Jul 22, 2010)

Interesting to hear the different management ideas.  We are not feeding any hay this time of year, they fill up grazing the fields.  Pastures are mowed pretty regular at our place to keep them growing, not gone to seed.  I am in Michigan, not KY, but I suppose the problem could happen here too.  The unmowed clover is pretty healthy looking!  Lots of cattle owners do not mow the grazing.

Never heard of or seen a bloat-block offered for sale!  Just salt, mineral blocks of various types.

Clover here is a bit different with the cool weather of Spring and plenty of rain so far.  Usually the grasses outgrow the clover, especially with regular mowing of fields.

We have limited acreage, mowing is the best way to keep the grasses healthy and producing for the whole season.  Mowing tall, mowing often, sometimes weekly, gets deep roots going under grass.  The trimmings create a "mulching effect" that protects dirt and roots from sun heat, sharp hooves of our horses, feeds the soil.  I have clover mixed in with grass, but if it was taking over the field, I would spray it dead and reseed with grass.

I am just hearing so many bad things about clover, I am surprised that I have missed that information all these years.  Could be the odd weather again, letting clover be at it's growing best now, and not in other years past.


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## WildRoseBeef (Jul 22, 2010)

goodhors said:
			
		

> We have limited acreage, mowing is the best way to keep the grasses healthy and producing for the whole season.  *Mowing tall, mowing often, sometimes weekly, gets deep roots going under grass. * The trimmings create a "mulching effect" that protects dirt and roots from sun heat, sharp hooves of our horses, feeds the soil.  I have clover mixed in with grass, but if it was taking over the field, I would spray it dead and reseed with grass.


Bloat Guard I believe is a product that can be mixed with the loose mineral. Check out this publication made by Alberta Agriculture about bloat in cattle. 

As for the above, I have to disagree.  Of course this all has to do with the type of grasses you have in your pastures.  Turf grasses like creeping red fescue or kentucky bluegrass thrive under being mowed once a week in a good growing season.  Other grasses that take longer to grow after being mowed, like brome, fescue, orchard grass and timothy, this hurts them.  When you mow weekly you tend to select for the grasses that do best when being mowed constantly and select against those that do very poorly when mowed constantly.  If you want to retain pastures that have a good mix of grasses in them, then you have to mow less often.  But if you want to turn a pasture into practically a lawn, then you can do what you're doing now.  JMO.


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## WildRoseBeef (Jul 22, 2010)

oops, repeat post


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## john in wa (Jul 22, 2010)

It can also be bought in blocks. when using bloat guard blocks you need to pull all other salt and mineral blocks. the blocks i buy come in 34lbs blocks at a cost of about $20 per block per week. so for me the clover  has to go i have been working on it for 3 years and now think i might be down to a 50/50 mix. i want to get it down to 0% clover.


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## goodhors (Jul 22, 2010)

The mowing information came straight from Michigan State University, part of their grass research program.  They study all kinds and how to grow them in lawns, pasture, forage programs as part of their learning what works here in Michigan.

After attending some talks, reading the studies, I changed what I was doing for pasture.  For us, pastures are planned for the horses first, the cows are secondary  users because the horses can't eat enough grass to keep it mowed down.

I did what was suggested for improving the grazing, with fertilizing, some seeding of bare areas, but the main change was the mowing when pasture got up about 8-10 inches tall.  I mow down to about 5-6 inches, which makes for plenty of new growth that horses prefer.  MSU says that if grass is left to go to seed, that the plants shut down, go dormant for the season.  You don't want them setting seed, they won't produce the growth you want.  Plants get stronger roots with cutting the tops, so are better able to withstand drought, heavy rainfall and sharp hooves running on it.  They spread better with roots than self-seeding.  There is very little nutrition in the tall stems, horses just regraze the short growth areas until they are dirt without the mowing.  Pasture can look FINE from the road, but when you walk it, the bald spots are obvious, tall stuff is weeds or inedible for horses or the poop area where they won't graze anyway.

Any of the cut grass is reused by the land as mulch and by the year end, equals an application of fertilizer.  The mulching effect of cut tops protects the soil from water runoff, shades the roots so soil doesn't dry out so quickly.  All benefits.  My fields have a mix of grasses, white clover, no fescues because we sometimes have mares with a foal.  Fescues are bad for bred mares.

We do dump stall bedding on the fields daily, adds to the mulching effect.  With this mowing often, my fields have improved 150%.  I can graze horses all summer, there is grass even if we get some dry spells.  I don't feed hay in summer.  Horses are in the barn half the day, to avoid insects and to prevent obesity!  We have had from 6 to 10 horses grazing about 11 rotated acres, all season and nice looking on that grass only.

Before I did the mowing thing, my same fields were done by July.  This was with 4 horses only!  We did feed hay in summer then until rains came in the fall and grass got started again.  I had the bald spots, the tall stuff that was inedible, plenty of weeds too because I didn't cut them down.

So live and learn, I feel things have improved greatly with these methods.  If grass doesn't get tall enough, I don't cut.  Usually hot and dry in August, so no mowing at all.  Otherwise I cut as the grass needs it, rather like lawn mowing only taller.  We usually have plenty of rain, a longer growing season than many places get.  Mixed grasses help, with cool weather grasses like Bluegrass doing well in most seasons, hot weather grasses covering for them in heat of the summer.  You have to have a mix, so something is always coming along.  

Clovers have always been a good filler in between the seasonal  grasses, so it was helpful in grazing.  I will be keeping a MUCH closer eye on my clover with my new information.  Even good stuff can be bad in certain times or conditions, so I will be more attentive now.


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## WildRoseBeef (Jul 23, 2010)

goodhors said:
			
		

> The mowing information came straight from Michigan State University, part of their grass research program.  They study all kinds and how to grow them in lawns, pasture, forage programs as part of their learning what works here in Michigan.
> 
> After attending some talks, reading the studies, I changed what I was doing for pasture.  For us, _pastures are planned for the horses first_, the cows are secondary  users because the horses can't eat enough grass to keep it mowed down.
> 
> ...


You certainly sound like you have a good grazing management going for you, especially with your horses.  Thanks for explaining further about what you do and how you do it!


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## aggieterpkatie (Jul 23, 2010)

Some people want to manage for more mature grasses. In the case of horses, sometimes you can help manage things like founder and laminities if you're putting them on more mature grasses (with lower sugar contents).  When grass is mowed and starts to regrow, the sugar content is at it's highest (which is why horses especially like to re-graze the same areas repeatedly).  

Also, someone mentioned only grazing in the afternoon, but that's when the sugar content in grasses is at its highest.  If that worries you or might be a problem for your animals, it's best to feed hay at night and put them on pasture in the AM.  

And goodhors, not all fescue is bad!  There are several varieties of "friendly" endophyte tall fescue like Max Q out on the market.  There are also endophyte free varieties, but the endophyte is what makes fescue so hardy.  When they totally remove the endophyte, the grass isn't quite as good as the infected kind.  They're finding the novel (or friendly) endophyte fescue is much better than the endophyte free stuff.


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