# Horns and Nigerian Dwarfs



## Bicycle

I notice a lot of Nigerian Dwarf breeders only sell dis budded kids, without exception. Is dis budding a really necessary thing to do, or is it just convenient, like declawing? Is something as small as a Nigerian Dwarf going to be dangerous with horns? I know you can't show horned goats, but if you are just looking for milk producing pets is it alright for them to be horned? I really like the look of horned goats, and I've read they help the goats cool off somehow. Do disbudded goats ever grow back the fur where they were disbudded?


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## Ms. Research

Convenient like declawing?  I don't about that.  But there are those who sell goats with horns, you just have to find them.   I don't think there is a study out there that states that disbudding alters their personality or mental status.  At least I don't know of one.  Maybe someone does.  

I think it's just preference.   And as posted in another thread, goats can be dangerous with our without horns if you don't know what you are doing.  

So if you want a goat with horns, go for it!  They are impressive.


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## Squirrelgirl88

My ND girls have their horns. And at 4+ months old they are cute. Yes, I have had one black eye - my fault - turns out you should NEVER try and kiss a baby goat on the head. :/ Believe me, I agonized over the decision. When we breed the girls next year it will be up to the buyer to make their own decision, but if they want them disbudded, they will have to do it themselves. Any that stay here will keep their horns.


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## ksalvagno

Yes, the goats grow back the hair after disbudding. If you have ever been hit in the face or hooked by a horn, then you know why. It is definitely personal preference but you do have to watch out for fences and they can easily accidently get you with their horns. Most people with kids prefer to buy dehorned goats. You could certainly talk to a breeder and see if they will not disbud kids that you want to purchase but you may have to put a deposit down or something because the decision would have to be made quickly to buy the goats before disbudding.


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## crazyland

I have a NG wether who has his horns. So far he is good with his horns. But I have lost one goat with horns to her getting her head out the fence and a deadly critter getting a snack. From now on no horns. I won't be owning meat goats or showing meat goats. The kinders that I like are disbudded.


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## manybirds

You most definatly want goats dehorned. Yes little nigerians can cause tremendous damage to u and other goats (not to mention fencing). I have heard horror stories about horned goats attacking one another and killing eathother just by play fighting. I left my first goat with horns and it is probably one of the biggest mistakes i have ever made (not to be dramatic). If they have horns no matter how sweet they are they will use them. My abu (horned goat) u cant pet him anymore without even accidently getting hooked by a horn. he is hystrung and a little naughty but u have to remember he is my sweet bottle baby. We had to seperate out the mom and her baby because he kept butting the baby. we took them to fair and i had to seperate the mom/baby out because he picked up the baby and threw it. he butts the mom and sometimes get his horn stuck in her collar and his horn digs into her neck. u have to remember that this is not a particularly mean goat just one with horns. even without horns abortions and brocken ribs and ocassionaly even death can be caused, with horns the risk goes up humungously. now i'm going to go through this huge thing as soon as the bugs go down to get his horns off. It is such a simple thing to get them dehorned. If it is done properly they don't grow back. it should be done from 1-10 bucklings ( though it varies depending on goat it's always good to do it ASAP) I was just reading this blog from this lady who disbudded. she has a different method then the nice copper ring. she says it's a little more painful on the baby goat but she has never ever had a scur horn (the big thick deformed ones that are very close to imposable to remove even through banding) though very ocasionaly on a full buck (because of testosterone) she will get a little scur (the kind u can twist off with fingers or pliers). She says when people call her awful she sends them pictures of a buck that wasn't dehorned properly and got a scur horn that had to be bone sawed off and then burned and burned in a huge traumatizing bloody mess. I don't know 1 person who left horns on that dosn't regret it. We know people who raise like 700 meat goats and don't dehorn and they have to bottle raise a lot of there babies because moms get internal injuries from being butted too hard. if i left my abu's horns on we would have to seperate him out away from other goats. burning (if properly done) is the only way to permanently remove horns, they will grow back if u band them (slowly but they will). burning is not as hard on the baby goat as u think. did i mention they will wreck fences and get there head stuck in them everytime they stick there head through (almost everyone i know who has horned goats spends a fortune on fencing) horns are cute when they are babies but then they hit a year and funs over.I liked horns on my little abu until he hit a year. then i was very extremely sorely (litterly) regreting my decision.

Here is how the lady does burning horns:

first she gets the smallest size top she can (not the pygmy one but if u like nigerian dwarfs u might want to do that) and files it down to about half it's origional thickness, not so its sharp but just thinner and then she puts the kid in the dehorning box and takes the filed down head and instead of just holding the burner on she rotates is around (the idea of her method is to cut throught the hide instead of just burning, this is why she files down the head- though remember not till it's sharp just a little less wide). instead of looking for a nice copper ring u want to see a white ring. then she does a second set of burns rite in front of the first two (i think this is where a blood vessel or nerve is the first two r rite on the horn second two in front) she makes two nice white rings again. when she has made her burns she taks something (like a flat head screwdriver) and pops the horn caps off and sprays everything with .........the healing stuff (cant remember what it's called) not blood stop though. there is no blood and its barely more traumatizing then normal dehorning. don't be scared to do it the kids are better off this way and there are never any hard fealings. My one wether kid got the nice copper ring and now has a scur/ horn (the thick non nearly non removable kind.) this is going to make him very hard to sell

Hope that helped! sorry for it being so long!


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## elevan

I have a 50/50 mix of horned and dehorned goats.  I prefer horns...those without were that way when I got them.  I have pygmies, a nigerian dwarf buck and a cross buck.  You have to be cautious, you have to have good fences (and check them daily).  There is no _must_ have one way or the other...it is truly a personal choice and one that needs to be made in an educated way.  Can horned goats be dangerous? Yes, but so can dehorned goats.  My most aggressive doe is dehorned.


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## Goatmasta

Here are a couple of issues with Nigerians and horns.
1) They can't be shown with horns.
2) Because they are small and you are always bending over to pet them or work on them or do anything, the "black eye" that has been mentioned happens a lot.

 The fence and other destructive issues are true for all breeds.

Here ALL babies leave disbudded because that is our choice.  They all have our herd name and we don't want horned goats with our herd name.  Granted we mostly have "show goats".
  We have had horned goats in the past and just decided we would go the other way.

  There is a article on my blog  about disbudding with video.

  The Pygmy tip is too small, the 1/2" tip is the one we use.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

We sell all our babies disbudded as well.  Most breeders/buyers (certainly those involved in dairying or show) are interested only in disbudded goats so you're essentially removing the animal from the (registered) gene pool by not disbudding.  I don't want to limit my kids' futures if I can help it.


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## BetterHensandGardens

All our babies will be disbudded as well.  I know it's a personal choice, but this is why ours are all disbudded:

1.  Horns get stuck in things, and can cause the goats to injure themselves

2.  Goats with horns can hurt each other when they play butt each other

3.  Horns can hurt people    

4.  People generally prefer hornless goats, so theyre worth more

5.  Horns cause damage to fences, barn structures, mangers, etc.

6.  Horns can break, and as bad as disbudding may seem, a broken horn is horrible (the goat can bleed to death)

7.  The goats have to be disbudded to be shown


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## genuck

The first goats I got all had horns, pygmy cashmere, I have one of the does left. Her horns go straight up, I'm forever worrying that I'll lose an eye. Her sire had beautiful long curvy horns, for that reason I left the horns on the buckling from her sister.

 All my others have horns except for my togg x pygmy. They are either angora or pygoras, breeders seem to go 50/50 on disbudding with them. 

 Personally I like the curling horns, I don't keep collars on any of them since they have horns. Even the one with no horns headbutts the others, she has no clue she's unarmed...


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## manybirds

I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.


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## kstaven

manybirds said:
			
		

> I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.


Sorry for your experiences, but disbudding is a choice and one that should never be forced on any animal owner. Education as to dealing with horns or no horns and the problems with each is the responsible approach.

Often people bring on their own problems with horned animals because they use them as grab handles when they are young. Great way to teach a horned animal exactly what you don't want them to do.


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## Goatherd

With every discussion concerning the removal of horns on goats, or other animals for that matter, safety, cosmetic, showing ability, increased selling price, etc. is the forefront of the discussion.
Rarely, if ever, have I read anyone post anything regarding the physiological function of a horn.

My understanding, limited that it may be, is that the horn is very vascular and that has been proven many times over from broken horns or the removal of horns on adult animals.  This vascular system has been known to help regulate body temperature in heavily bodied animals not to mention releasing heat from the brain when an animal is over-heated.

Just wanted to add another facet to the conversation even though horns vs no horns will always be a personal choice.


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## 20kidsonhill

We have boer, so we don't need to deal with the horns sticking straight up like on a nigerean, but I feel the horns are there for a reason, and dehorning them shouldn be carefully considered.  If not done properly scurs can become a problem. It is not an easy procedure to do on any age animal, a lot of discomfort is involved. Do we fully understand the need for horns on a horned animal?  

I am not saying it shouldn't be done, being constantly stuck in a fence all day isn't very healthy for the goat either.  

Dehorning them may be a better option if you have limited space for your goats. Goats are harder on each other with less space, so dehorning all of them may be better for the low man on the totem pole. 

It is a personal choice, just keep asking questions and doing research.   I would suggest choosing either all horned or all dehorned, the onse with no horns will not stand a chance against the onse with horns.


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## manybirds

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> We have boer, so we don't need to deal with the horns sticking straight up like on a nigerean, but I feel the horns are there for a reason, and dehorning them shouldn be carefully considered.  If not done properly scurs can become a problem. It is not an easy procedure to do on any age animal, a lot of discomfort is involved. Do we fully understand the need for horns on a horned animal?
> 
> I am not saying it shouldn't be done, being constantly stuck in a fence all day isn't very healthy for the goat either.
> 
> Dehorning them may be a better option if you have limited space for your goats. Goats are harder on each other with less space, so dehorning all of them may be better for the low man on the totem pole.
> 
> It is a personal choice, just keep asking questions and doing research.   I would suggest choosing either all horned or all dehorned, the onse with no horns will not stand a chance against the onse with horns.


My thoughts exactly! thank you! (on the not keeping 50/50 thing


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## 20kidsonhill

manybirds said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have boer, so we don't need to deal with the horns sticking straight up like on a nigerean, but I feel the horns are there for a reason, and dehorning them shouldn be carefully considered.  If not done properly scurs can become a problem. It is not an easy procedure to do on any age animal, a lot of discomfort is involved. Do we fully understand the need for horns on a horned animal?
> 
> I am not saying it shouldn't be done, being constantly stuck in a fence all day isn't very healthy for the goat either.
> 
> Dehorning them may be a better option if you have limited space for your goats. Goats are harder on each other with less space, so dehorning all of them may be better for the low man on the totem pole.
> 
> It is a personal choice, just keep asking questions and doing research.   I would suggest choosing either all horned or all dehorned, the onse with no horns will not stand a chance against the onse with horns.
> 
> 
> 
> My thoughts exactly! thank you! (on the not keeping 50/50 thing
Click to expand...

I made a mistake last year of bringing home our first dehorned doe, this girl is big, as in as big as any of the largest does I have on the farm, and she is constantly getting beat up, I have to pen her with one friend  at night to feed her in the winter or she would starve to death, she does okay on pasture, since there is so much room, but if it rains or storms she is stuck standing outside of the calf huts. We don't allow our herd in the barn in the summer, not that she would beable to get in the barn anyway. she had triplets and two were stillborn, I am not so sure that wasn't from the stress of being beat up and not being able to find a quiet place to lay down and kid, Next year I am going to try to give her more of her own space a couple weeks before she is due.  Live and learn.


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## manybirds

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> manybirds said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20kidsonhill said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have boer, so we don't need to deal with the horns sticking straight up like on a nigerean, but I feel the horns are there for a reason, and dehorning them shouldn be carefully considered.  If not done properly scurs can become a problem. It is not an easy procedure to do on any age animal, a lot of discomfort is involved. Do we fully understand the need for horns on a horned animal?
> 
> I am not saying it shouldn't be done, being constantly stuck in a fence all day isn't very healthy for the goat either.
> 
> Dehorning them may be a better option if you have limited space for your goats. Goats are harder on each other with less space, so dehorning all of them may be better for the low man on the totem pole.
> 
> It is a personal choice, just keep asking questions and doing research.   I would suggest choosing either all horned or all dehorned, the onse with no horns will not stand a chance against the onse with horns.
> 
> 
> 
> My thoughts exactly! thank you! (on the not keeping 50/50 thing
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I made a mistake last year of bringing home our first dehorned doe, this girl is big, as in as big as any of the largest does I have on the farm, and she is constantly getting beat up, I have to pen her with one friend  at night to feed her in the winter or she would starve to death, she does okay on pasture, since there is so much room, but if it rains or storms she is stuck standing outside of the calf huts. We don't allow our herd in the barn in the summer, not that she would beable to get in the barn anyway. she had triplets and two were stillborn, I am not so sure that wasn't from the stress of being beat up and not being able to find a quiet place to lay down and kid, Next year I am going to try to give her more of her own space a couple weeks before she is due.  Live and learn.
Click to expand...

You must do all horned? I do all dehorned. might them being still born be from being rammed in the stomach? i know i've heard of that happening.


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## Squirrelgirl88

The Horned vs. Dehorned debate is right up there with Ford vs. Chevy, and Coke vs. Pepsi. It will never be won, and it will never end. Something I appreciate on BYH is that I've never been condemned for not disbudding. I joined a Yahoo group that about lynched me for leaving the horns intact. 

I will say one thing about the "cooling factor" of horns. Our neighbor's saanen has large horns and if you put your hand on them they are VERY warm to the touch. I have to think that they allow some cooling, even if it is minimal.


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## elevan

manybirds said:
			
		

> I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.


My dehorned goats are quite capable of putting the horned goats in their place.  My herd is 50/50 right now...don't judge...and I will not be disbudding or dehorning any of my horned goats or future kids that will stay on my farm.  That is my stand and my choice for my farm, I understand and accept all risks and have not yet had an issue with my pygmy and dwarf goats.

Anyone wanting to buy a dehorned kid from me will pay the fee for disbudding by my vet and a deposit upon the birth of the animal.


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## genuck

manybirds said:
			
		

> I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.


Sorry if it was misunderstood, all but one of my goats are horned. The one that is w/o horns was a lack of communication between me and the breeder. I bought her with horns, but when I went to pick her up they had just disbudded her for me without asking  I would have preferred her to have horns. Of course she is high on the totem pole and gets jollies out of headbutting the ram lamb as I try to lead him... that's a whole nother topic...


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## kstaven

Squirrelgirl88 said:
			
		

> The Horned vs. Dehorned debate is right up there with Ford vs. Chevy, and Coke vs. Pepsi. It will never be won, and it will never end. Something I appreciate on BYH is that I've never been condemned for not disbudding. I joined a Yahoo group that about lynched me for leaving the horns intact.
> 
> I will say one thing about the "cooling factor" of horns. Our neighbor's saanen has large horns and if you put your hand on them they are VERY warm to the touch. I have to think that tehy allow some cooling, even if it is minimal.


I understand. You should go to a dairy meet up and see the reactions to pictures of horned goats on the milking lines.  There are a few of us around that never disbudd our dairy herds.

On the other side of this conversation concerning mixed herds. We regularly bring in new does the supplement the milk supply and they are often without horns. We have never had an issue with those goats not being able to hold-their-own in the herd. 

Where I have seen big problems is with goats that have been kept as a single or in a pair and then introducing them to a large herd or large herd to a pair situation. The goats kept single or paired do not have the same concept of herd or social structure that those from large herds have and that creates many issues. I have often seen these scenarios result in injured animals.


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## manybirds

elevan said:
			
		

> manybirds said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.
> 
> 
> 
> My dehorned goats are quite capable of putting the horned goats in their place.  My herd is 50/50 right now...don't judge...and I will not be disbudding or dehorning any of my horned goats or future kids that will stay on my farm.  That is my stand and my choice for my farm, I understand and accept all risks and have not yet had an issue with my pygmy and dwarf goats.
> 
> Anyone wanting to buy a dehorned kid from me will pay the fee for disbudding by my vet and a deposit upon the birth of the animal.
Click to expand...

I guess it's a personal preferance. one of the biggest reasons i don't like it is because when a beginer buys a horned goat and the horns are a problem he may sell his goat and give up and dislike goats because he had a horned one. I think everyone's first goat should be dehorned and then they should make the choice.


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## elevan

manybirds said:
			
		

> elevan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> manybirds said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's a personal choice but 50/50 is not good either. the horned goats will have a big advantage over the disbudded goats. all of them should be disbudded.
> 
> 
> 
> My dehorned goats are quite capable of putting the horned goats in their place.  My herd is 50/50 right now...don't judge...and I will not be disbudding or dehorning any of my horned goats or future kids that will stay on my farm.  That is my stand and my choice for my farm, I understand and accept all risks and have not yet had an issue with my pygmy and dwarf goats.
> 
> Anyone wanting to buy a dehorned kid from me will pay the fee for disbudding by my vet and a deposit upon the birth of the animal.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I guess it's a personal preferance. one of the biggest reasons i don't like it is because when a beginer buys a horned goat and the horns are a problem he may sell his goat and give up and dislike goats because he had a horned one. I think everyone's first goat should be dehorned and then they should make the choice.
Click to expand...

If your first goat is dehorned, how are you gonna come to an educated decision to go horned??  I'm just asking.

I think first time goat owners need to visit (and spend time) with goats that are horned and goats that are dehorned before getting a goat.  Talk to the breeders of both.  Talk to lots of different people who own goats.  Read lots of information about goats.  AND THEN and only then can they make an educated decision on which route to go or if they even should go with goats.

I believe the bigger problem is new goat owners getting goats before they are fully prepared for goats.


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## Goatmasta

I think we should remember that the OP was asking about Nigerians.  As far as Nigerians go the question to ask is if the goats are registered.  Although a registered Nigerian can have horns they cannot enter a show ring with the horns.  If you are buying registered Nigerians (with or without horns) I would assume that you are planning on selling "show quality" or you would have bought an unregistered animal.  If you are planning to sell a "show quality" Nigerian you should be disbudding.


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## kstaven

For the sake of the show ring and $$$ I agree. I have never understood why horns are a DQ considering it is standard equipment on a goat.


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## elevan

kstaven said:
			
		

> For the sake of the show ring and $$$ I agree. *I have never understood why horns are a DQ considering it is standard equipment on a goat.*


Me neither...but that's a different argument


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## Goatmasta

kstaven said:
			
		

> For the sake of the show ring and $$$ I agree. I have never understood why horns are a DQ considering it is standard equipment on a goat.


Like Eleven I don't know why either, but rules are rules.


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## Burmarie

I like horns on a goat.  The health benefit regarding the cooling factor in a hot dry area, the character expressed by them, and the finished silhouette are my main reasons for keeping horns.  I also don't believe in altering an animal just because humans think it is better.  I kinda think mother nature/whatever deity one may or may not give credit to, knew what she was doing when she created critters to fit into their individual nooks, so what would give me the right to think I know better?  
Now, I am a fan of naturally polled goaties too, because that is the way they are meant to be, but the rules for showing goats keep many breeders from going with nature just to have the privilege of entering the show ring.  If their was justice in the arena, to balance out what is probably a fear of safety issue, we could have horned competitions separate from the dis-budded ladies.  I can't imagine how taking the horns off of a kid makes them better or worse than they would have been if left intact from a quality standpoint.  
I digress and chatter on!  My herd is two dis-budded ladies, one done by accident by the breeder after I requested her horns left intact, and a horned doeling and her half brother wether.   We will see if I have a change of heart as these kids grow up, but I rather doubt it since I grew up with horned goats on my parents place back in Idaho.
Just one silly girl's opinion!


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## OneFineAcre

Burmarie said:
			
		

> I like horns on a goat.  The health benefit regarding the cooling factor in a hot dry area, the character expressed by them, and the finished silhouette are my main reasons for keeping horns.  I also don't believe in altering an animal just because humans think it is better.  I kinda think mother nature/whatever deity one may or may not give credit to, knew what she was doing when she created critters to fit into their individual nooks, so what would give me the right to think I know better?
> Now, I am a fan of naturally polled goaties too, because that is the way they are meant to be, but the rules for showing goats keep many breeders from going with nature just to have the privilege of entering the show ring.  If their was justice in the arena, to balance out what is probably a fear of safety issue, we could have horned competitions separate from the dis-budded ladies.  I can't imagine how taking the horns off of a kid makes them better or worse than they would have been if left intact from a quality standpoint.
> I digress and chatter on!  My herd is two dis-budded ladies, one done by accident by the breeder after I requested her horns left intact, and a horned doeling and her half brother wether.   We will see if I have a change of heart as these kids grow up, but I rather doubt it since I grew up with horned goats on my parents place back in Idaho.
> Just one silly girl's opinion!


This looks like an old thread that was brought back to life.

The standard for dairy goats has been to disbud.  I think the requirement for showing reflects the standard, not the other way around.  Most likely the reason has been traditionally the close human contact, and close quarters of milking parlors.

Let me ask you a question.  You "don't believe in altering an animal just because humans think it's better"

But then you mention you have a wether.  Wasn't he born with testicles?

I'm sorry, I love asking people that


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## Southern by choice

Old thread and very strong opinions on both sides.
I also think there is validity to both sides of the argument.

I will say however I do not think the "show" standard or requirements makes it of greater validity.  For thousands of years, before there ever was a "show" world, goats were milked and they had horns.

Most places in the world do not disbud goats and they milk them. 

In the canine world I have seen many of breeds DESTROYED by the show world. Man always tweaking what "pleases" them.  

When goats were created, they were created with horns. Man has the options of altering what was naturally created, yes. Sometimes these alterations have a positive effect sometimes not.

For years the standard in certain breeds of dogs was to crop ears, or dock tails, sometimes both. Neither had anything to do with the function or ability of the canine. A lot like goats. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and people find these practices cruel and abusive. 

I do not find dis-budding cruel just like I do not consider tail docking or ear cropping cruel.  I do not believe it is necessary in most cases, however my Lamancha mini's will, more than likely, be disbudded. I do not disbud any other of our goats and we encourage the polled genetics. Why would I dis-bud these guys... simple- Lamanchas are really naughty and their horns can be a serious issue. In this case I think there are greater benefits to dis-budding these kids than not.  I am also glad to have the option of doing so.


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## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> Old thread and very strong opinions on both sides.
> I also think there is validity to both sides of the argument.
> 
> I will say however I do not think the "show" standard or requirements makes it of greater validity.  For thousands of years, before there ever was a "show" world, goats were milked and they had horns.
> 
> Most places in the world do not disbud goats and they milk them.
> 
> In the canine world I have seen many of breeds DESTROYED by the show world. Man always tweaking what "pleases" them.
> 
> When goats were created, they were created with horns. Man has the options of altering what was naturally created, yes. Sometimes these alterations have a positive effect sometimes not.
> 
> For years the standard in certain breeds of dogs was to crop ears, or dock tails, sometimes both. Neither had anything to do with the function or ability of the canine. A lot like goats. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and people find these practices cruel and abusive.
> 
> I do not find dis-budding cruel just like I do not consider tail docking or ear cropping cruel.  I do not believe it is necessary in most cases, however my Lamancha mini's will, more than likely, be disbudded. I do not disbud any other of our goats and we encourage the polled genetics. Why would I dis-bud these guys... simple- Lamanchas are really naughty and their horns can be a serious issue. In this case I think there are greater benefits to dis-budding these kids than not.  I am also glad to have the option of doing so.


I disbud my goats but I don't have a strong opinion that it is what you should do.  If people like to leave horns on then that is their choice.  I don't like it when people say that it is cruel to disbud, but they think it's OK to band males.


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## Southern by choice

*Completely agree.*.. I do have a hard time with botched disbuddings and how big of an issue it can become.  The process of the removal all the way down into the sinuses is painful.  I know it can happen and it doesn't mean the person was inept either, on bucks I think it is much harder than does.

I wish more people that are successful and really good at disbudding would help in their communities more. I have found breeders to be much better than most vets.  

So One- Fine- hint hint... you gonna do my Millie's kids?


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## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> *Completely agree.*.. I do have a hard time with botched disbuddings and how big of an issue it can become.  The process of the removal all the way down into the sinuses is painful.  I know it can happen and it doesn't mean the person was inept either, on bucks I think it is much harder than does.
> 
> I wish more people that are successful and really good at disbudding would help in their communities more. I have found breeders to be much better than most vets.
> 
> So One- Fine- hint hint... you gonna do my Millie's kids?


I think we have figured it out.  We had to get the vet to re-do a couple, but the last ones we did turned out great.  At one of our NCDGBA my wife asked that they do a demo and we learned a lot.

I'll be glad to do them if you bring them to me.  I think I'm about 45 minutes away. Are these kids on the way, or are they already born?


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## Southern by choice

They are due in 9 days! 

Our first mini-manchas!


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## OneFineAcre

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> They are due in 9 days!
> 
> Our first mini-manchas!


Sent you a PM


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