# Black Welsh Mountain Sheep



## Oogiem (Dec 23, 2011)

I have no idea why the previous topic was closed. 

But for the record Martha Stewart does not have purebred or registered Black Welsh Mountain sheep. There is no documentation of the flock she got hers from ever having sheep that trace in all lines to either Tom Wyman's imports or to the semen imported from the UK in the late 1990s. In fact we cannot even trace them to Tom's sheep at all. Plus her sheep have docked tails and that is forbidden in the registry both here in North America (US & Canada) and in the UK. 

They are cute black sheep but not necessarily Black Welsh Mountain sheep. 

They can be profitable but they are also not suitable for all places or all types of farming. 

However, in the UK, Welsh Mountain sheep (of which Black Welsh are only one variety) are a good viable commercial sheep used both in the production of Welsh Mules (by crossing with a BFL ram) and in their own right producing Welsh Mountain lamb. I've visited flocks of Welsh Mountain sheep with over 1200 ewes, that is not a hobby! 

Marketing them as an investment is a bad thing IMO. They are a production sheep and where they fit they are a good match but they are not perfect nor will they fit for all places. 

Our own flock is at 60 breeding ewes and currently 150 total sheep on the place. We raise all of our own slaughter stock ourselves and sell all we can produce. We don't want to get any bigger because our farm isn't large enough to graze more sheep and land is too expensive to buy more. Currently we're generating between $300-$400 income per breeding ewe per year. Not our entire living but respectable for a 60 ewe flock. Most places that talk about business planning for sheep flocks figure that it takes at least 300 ewes to make a living at it if sheep are the only farm enterprise.


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## SheepGirl (Dec 23, 2011)

Oogiem said:
			
		

> Our own flock is at 60 breeding ewes and currently 150 total sheep on the place. We raise all of our own slaughter stock ourselves and sell all we can produce. We don't want to get any bigger because our farm isn't large enough to graze more sheep and land is too expensive to buy more. *Currently we're generating between $300-$400 income per breeding ewe per year.* Not our entire living but respectable for a 60 ewe flock. Most places that talk about business planning for sheep flocks figure that it takes at least 300 ewes to make a living at it if sheep are the only farm enterprise.


Are you a commercial flock or are you a seedstock flock? How much do you sell your stock for? That is an unbelievable income on a per-ewe basis.  Kudos to you if that's really what you're making!


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## 77Herford (Dec 23, 2011)

Oogiem said:
			
		

> I have no idea why the previous topic was closed.
> 
> .


Because I started it and requested it closed as I had got all the info I needed.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 24, 2011)

Oogiem said:
			
		

> But for the record Martha Stewart does not have purebred or registered Black Welsh Mountain sheep. There is no documentation of the flock she got hers from ever having sheep that trace in all lines to either Tom Wyman's imports or to the semen imported from the UK in the late 1990s. In fact we cannot even trace them to Tom's sheep at all. Plus her sheep have docked tails and that is forbidden in the registry both here in North America (US & Canada) and in the UK.
> 
> They are cute black sheep but not necessarily Black Welsh Mountain sheep.


Martha Gets Sheep 

You may want to tell Martha.


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## Oogiem (Dec 29, 2011)

I have told Martha & her staff and also tried to trace them but we can't. I've tried to get her to send us any info on them that might help but have never gotten any response. 

So as registrar for the American association and approved inspector for Black Welsh Mountain sheep according to the UK association I have to say at this point they are not purebred registered Black Welsh Mountain sheep. 

Yes that is the actual gross income per ewe for our flock. This year the gross income per ewe was right at $340.00 Net income is about half that. Most farm business reporting is based on looking at gross income. At least that is how we have to report stuff to the Farm Service Agency and the USDA when they do the sheep census reports.

We are both a commercial and seedstock flock. We select breeding and for sale sheep from among the top 50% of the ewe lambs and top 25% of the ram lambs. We are an NSIP recorded flock, only 1 year so far, but have been focusing on commercial traits for our entire time with the sheep. The rest of the lambs we raise, feed out and have slaughtered at a local USDA facility and then do marketing of all of our own meat. 

Breeding stock prices range from $300-500 for ewes and $500-750 for rams. We sell lambs mostly of the ewes but sell all ages of rams as I need to be sure the rams can be used to breed any ewes a buyer gets.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jan 2, 2012)

Oogiem said:
			
		

> I have told Martha & her staff and also tried to trace them but we can't. I've tried to get her to send us any info on them that might help but have never gotten any response.


I saw an episode of The Fabulous Beekman Boys where Brent and Josh went to NC to pick the sheep up (they also have sheep from the same flock), so they came from somewhere in NC.  The episode showed them driving on Rt. 52 somewhere near Lexington, but they could have been on their way home by then.  Maybe you can find that episode to see if it gives you any more clues?


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