# ND Goat with ultra dry, flaking skin - Vet suggests euthanizing?



## WildOaksManor (Jan 10, 2017)

My 1 1/2 year old Nigerian Dwarf, Arrow, is having a rough time. I am hoping someone here has some advice or experience with a similar issue.
Arrow was wormed with Ivermectin pour-on, per vets recommendation at the end of Sept, '16. Shortly after, I noticed flaking, dry skin on a couple does, which may or may not have been related. The dryness cleared up on all but two does, sisters. One of the sisters, Arrow, has a really bad case. The weather has turned unusually nasty here, with  temps much lower and drier than is typical, and Arrow has substantial hair loss, cracked, bloody skin, (especially on lower legs) and heavy flaking. She also has very small raised bumps on her ears.
The vet has seen Arrow several times, in the last couple months, including farm visits where feed, supplements, and housing were checked. His most recent visit was less than a week ago, because she has become skinny, and is now being bullied by the herd. At his last visit, he concluded that Arrow has a genetic disorder (possibly fungal) and has suggested I never allow her to be bred, remove her from my herd, and consider euthanizing. He said if she does in fact have a hereditary fungal issue (her sister has the same symptoms, on a much milder scale, all other goats are clear.) that treating her would be a life-long, expensive, and exhausting undertaking.  While I agree that she should not be bred, I am not yet willing to have her put down, as I'm still hoping it's not hereditary  (I've contacted her breeder, and she reports no known skin conditions with her mother or aunt, but the buck was a short-term ownership thing) and there is something that can be done so that she can go to a pet home. I do not know of anything else I can try to save her, but here is what we have tried so far, along with a little info on my herd:

I have 8 goats. Closed herd for a year. Introduction of 4 Wensleydale sheep in last 5 months, which share pasture, but appear to be healthy. All goats have straw bedding, no mud, stalls cleaned regularly. They are on grass hay (kept full at all times) alfalfa pellets (2xs daily) grain mixed with BOSS, top dressed with Pro-B powder (1x day) and free fed Mana Pro goat minerals and baking soda. Warm water in tubs once a day, kept from freezing. All drinking fine.

No temps.
No mites, lice, or bugs.
Fecals repeated last week, all normal.

I have had her soaking in warm water in my bathtub, and rubbed the worst areas down with coconut oil. pending an anti-fungal shampoo from the vet. (He thinks its a little impractical, being that temps are below freezing, and she'd have to be inside the house until completely dry, which takes a few hours.) Frankly, bathing her inside is a HUGE inconvenience, exhausting, and messy.messy.messy., but if it'll help it clear up, I'm willing.

I've posted to other forums, and only gotten advice on trying a copper bolus (which I have yet to do) and using Nu-stock topicals, which would present the same problem as bathing, since she can't be in the barn wet, or with a topical, until dry.

Does anyone have any additional ideas, or know what the problem is?  Are you also of the opinion that this is a genetic issue....and is euthanasia to be seriously considered?
Also open to natural treatments!
Thank you for your time!

Here is Arrow in the bathtub, soaking her miserably cracked skin:





And last summer, as a doeling, healing after a neighbor dog attack:


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## promiseacres (Jan 10, 2017)

Don't know too much about goats but do know fungal and bacterial infections Can be diagnosed with skin scrapings. (Many fungi show up under a blacklight...) has she been checked for ringworm? If they have been checked for I would try a week of coconut oil on it and no more baths as they can over dry them out themselves.  Just some of my thoughts. Hopefully some goaties chime in, does seem overkill to jump to euthanasia. Maybe vet is thinking an immune issue? 
@Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice


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## Green Acres Farm (Jan 10, 2017)

WildOaksManor said:


> Arrow was wormed with Ivermectin pour-on, per vets recommendation at the end of Sept, '16. Shortly after, I noticed flaking, dry skin on a couple does, which may or may not have been related.


Pour-on dewormers are very dangerous for goats, unlike cattle. All dewormers should be given orally, unless for mites under the skin where it would be injected. 



WildOaksManor said:


> No temps.
> No mites, lice, or bugs.
> Fecals repeated last week, all normal.


Did the vet do a skin plug to check for mites or just a fecal? Did he do a skin scraping to check for fungus?
Did he do a culture to check for staph?

I hope you figure out the problem.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jan 10, 2017)

Is your little gal getting minerals?  There is evidence that a zinc deficiency can cause skin issues.  Google it and see if you find matching symptoms.  She sure is a cutie - good luck with her!


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## Green Acres Farm (Jan 10, 2017)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Is your little gal getting minerals?  There is evidence that a zinc deficiency can cause skin issues.  Google it and see if you find matching symptoms.  She sure is a cutie - good luck with her!


She gives free choice Manna Pro loose goat minerals.


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## alsea1 (Jan 10, 2017)

Was there a skin problem before the pour on wormer was used?
I would fit her up with a good coat for now so she can keep warm. 
Look into feeding her foods that help naturally with immune system.
Make sure you have a vet that is up on goats. Not all vets are good with goats and sheep.


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## Bruce (Jan 10, 2017)

I don't know goats. I second @alsea1's question about whether she ever showed similar signs before the Ivermectin. If not it sure seems unlikely she has a genetic disorder causing ultra dry skin.

I'm not so sure that soaking her in the tub is a good idea. Odd as it sounds, water dries skin as will most any soap.

This is going to sound weird and I don't know where you would get it in a large quantity but:
Castor Oil
It is anti almost everything bad. antifungal, antibacterial, antiviral, antiinflammatory.

I used it to get rid of a wart on my thumb. I ignored it until it was about 1/4" high and clearly not going away on its own, just kept getting bigger. I used Compound W for 2 months. Peeled off the dead 'cap' every couple of days which also meant small bits live skin at the edge of the wart being ripped out as well with some blood showing. Finally got it down to level with my skin which means the 'seed' was still there. My doctor suggested the duct tape method but since the wart was on my knuckle, no way, even with tape or a bandaid, to keep the spot of duct tape on. Wart started gaining height again. Then I found a reference to using castor oil to remove warts. Still couldn't use a bandaid so I couldn't put a 'castor oil pad' on it. I just put a drop on several times a day using a Qtip. It took some weeks but the wart is gone, the only evidence it ever existed is the scarring from pulling off the dead and live skin and Compound W 'glue'.

Second instance. Daughter came home from college for winter break. She had a dry area on her hand that was bleeding a bit. She had been using lotion. I convinced her to try castor oil. Problem cleared up in a week. 

I know others that have used castor oil to get rid of scaly leg mites on their chickens. Some use petroleum jelly to smother the mites but that does nothing for the inflammation on the chicken's leg. Castor oil will smother the mites, isn't goopy and heals the skin so new scales can grow. You can also use it on their combs if you are concerned about possible frostbite. Again, it soaks into the skin rather than just being a glob on top that collects every small bit of stuff that comes in contact with it. 

Might help, can't hurt!  Good luck.


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## NH homesteader (Jan 10, 2017)

I have a goat that has patchy skin issues (think it's a hormone thing) when she's pregnant. I used bag balm, but I think you can use peppermint udder cream. I don't suggest either as a "fix it" solution as obviously more is going on, but it might make her more comfortable?

I am going to say this, and it is in no way directed at you, because you are obviously doing all you can for her... So please don't take offense. But I would find another vet if you can. A vet who recommends pour on Ivermectin for goats is not who I would trust to tell me a goat needs to be put down.

Sorry about your girl, I can tell she's loved.


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 10, 2017)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Did the vet do a skin plug to check for mites or just a fecal? Did he do a skin scraping to check for fungus?
> Did he do a culture to check for staph?



No skin plug - he searched her and several others carefully for signs of mites, but didn't see any, and concluded that the Ivermectin would have taken care of them, (Administered Sept 30, 2016) if she did have them. No skin scraping, although he mentioned it. I think he was confident enough in his diagnosis to not think it necessary. No culture for staph - I'll ask about that.



Green Acres Farm said:


> Pour-on dewormers are very dangerous for goats, unlike cattle. All dewormers should be given orally, unless for mites under the skin where it would be injected.



Can you tell me what the dangers of the Ivermectin pour on, vs. the oral dose is? It was originally prescribed because one of my older goats came down with a coccidia overload, and also had lice (only one in the herd) and he decided to opt for the pour on for all of them, to prevent the lice from spreading, and bring everyone's wormings UTD.. He dosed according to their weight.


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 10, 2017)

promiseacres said:


> I would try a week of coconut oil on it and no more baths as they can over dry them out themselves.  Just some of my thoughts. Hopefully some goaties chime in, does seem overkill to jump to euthanasia. Maybe vet is thinking an immune issue?
> @Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice



Yes, I worded my info poorly, sorry. He said he thought she had a genetically weak immune system that was allowing the fungal infection to take over and not be kept in check, considering her care and diet. Which is why he mentioned putting her down.



Bruce said:


> I'm not so sure that soaking her in the tub is a good idea. Odd as it sounds, water dries skin as will most any soap.
> 
> This is going to sound weird and I don't know where you would get it in a large quantity but:
> Castor Oil. It is anti almost everything bad. antifungal, antibacterial, antiviral, antiinflammatory.



The reason I was soaking her in warm water was because she appeared to be in pain when walking, due to the cracked, bloody skin. I asked the vet if giving her a soak or two would help, and he said it would, although I can see your point. I was also thinking it would soften her skin to better absorb the coconut oil. 

If I used castor oil, do you think I could apply it and leave her outside, or would that not be good in 30' temps?


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 10, 2017)

NH homesteader said:


> I am going to say this, and it is in no way directed at you, because you are obviously doing all you can for her... So please don't take offense. But I would find another vet if you can. A vet who recommends pour on Ivermectin for goats is not who I would trust to tell me a goat needs to be put down.
> 
> Sorry about your girl, I can tell she's loved.



No offense taken. I have not used him for long, although he has been in practice locally as a equine and farm animal vet for over 30 years, and is well respected by our 4H group, and my local goat/sheep friends, and came recommended by several people. I'll admit, I don't know enough about goats yet to question any of his recommendations, but maybe a second opinion is a good idea. We are in a rural area, and I wonder how many other options I have, but I will look into it, thanks!


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## NH homesteader (Jan 10, 2017)

I've never personally had an experience with using a pour on but I've heard it can burn their skin and never to use it. Of course with goats few agree on much! 

It is hard to find a good vet. Especially in rural areas. I drive 50 minutes one way for mine (there is one closer I can call for emergencies if I have to).

Poor girl can't be enjoying this at all.


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## Bruce (Jan 10, 2017)

WildOaksManor said:


> If I used castor oil, do you think I could apply it and leave her outside, or would that not be good in 30' temps?



I don't see why not since people put it on their chickens' combs to stave off frostbite. Nobody worries about frostbite at 30F.  It does stay wet for a while so I never put it on my wart just before I went to bed. Didn't need it rubbing off on the sheets. You can certainly put it on areas where she won't just rub it in the dirt when she goes to sleep. Or maybe you have a clean stall/area with straw or hay for bedding? You don't need to soak her in it just get a thin film on her skin problem areas. If you have any on hand, start with the worst areas. It doesn't sting or anything so no concern about putting in on raw skin. If it seems to help after a couple of days, get the BIG bottle (whatever that is) since you have a large area (of a small goat) to deal with.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 10, 2017)

frustratedearthmother said:


> Is your little gal getting minerals?  There is evidence that a zinc deficiency can cause skin issues.  Google it and see if you find matching symptoms.  She sure is a cutie - good luck with her!



x 2


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 10, 2017)

Using Ivermectin pour on would not be my first choice for worming a goat.

But, using an ivermectin pour on would not be harmful to a goat.  Ivermectin is a pretty innocuous product.  They give it to people in other countries.

I don't think that is the problem with your goat, unless there is an outside chance that she was allergic to it.


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## NH homesteader (Jan 10, 2017)

Sorry I realized it sounded like I was implying that was the cause. I just thought euthanizing her was an extreme suggestion and perhaps his choice of dewormer would make me less interested in hearing that recommendation. Even if it did harm her skin I don't think it would be all over her body.

A mineral analysis would be a good start. Zinc deficiency is at least partially hereditary correct? Her sister has similar issues so worth checking.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 10, 2017)

With that kind of recommendation a second opinion is most certainly warranted.
Although his diagnosis may actually be correct.

There are several factors I see as problematic and do suggest seeking another opinion.
Personally I use several vets, all with their different philosophies and areas of expertise. A good example is a goat that we acquired that came in with severe hoof issues.
We worked on these hooves for a long time after the original sedation necessary to just take off the gross infection and overgrowth. When working on the hooves for months and still never getting them healed I called one of our other vets. I respect both vets but the second vet had some other ideas, using a method typically used on horses and cows... this method cleared it right up!

So........... what I am saying is sometimes it is advantageous to seek another opinion.

Almost ALL literature regarding pour on says NEVER to use on goats.
The fact that it was used for cocci  


WildOaksManor said:


> Can you tell me what the dangers of the Ivermectin pour on, vs. the oral dose is? It was originally prescribed because one of my older goats came down with a coccidia overload, and also had mites (only one in the herd) and he decided to opt for the pour on for all of them, to prevent the mites from spreading, and bring everyone's wormings UTD.. He dosed according to their weight.


is questionable. Dewormers do not treat Coccidia.



WildOaksManor said:


> No skin plug - he searched her and several others carefully for signs of mites, but didn't see any, and concluded that the Ivermectin would have taken care of them, (Administered Sept 30, 2016) if she did have them. No skin scraping, although he mentioned it. I think he was confident enough in his diagnosis to not think it necessary. No culture for staph - I'll ask about that.


Mites are microscopic and are not seen by the naked eye such as lice can be. Although skin scraping are quite ineffective because you must actually get the scraping to contain the mite. Generally the area that "looks" affected is where a mite has already been... it moves on to fresh areas. As far as fungal infection. Good probability however this can be cultured and confirmed. This IMO is a no brainer.

I really think you should have a blood draw and serum sent for a basic mineral analysis. The test (depending on where it is sent) cost about $35.
If this is a deficiency it will show.
Sometimes there are combinations of things that just happen at once and yet are easy to remedy.

If indeed it is an immune issue and will cause constant irritation and scratching then I believe euthanasia is best.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 10, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> We worked on these hooves for a long time after the original sedation necessary to just take off the gross infection and overgrowth. When working on the hooves for months and still never getting them healed I called one of our other vets. I respect both vets but the second vet had some other ideas, using a method typically used on horses and cows... this method cleared it right up!
> 
> So........... what I am saying is sometimes it is advantageous to seek another opinion.
> 
> ...



I can't find any literature that says you shouldn't use it as a pour on for goats?




IVOMEC® POUR-ON FOR CATTLE
Ivermectin Pour-On for Cattle
*This is a cattle product but is commonly used on goats as Off Label- we use it at the rate of 1cc/20lbs in a syringe with no needle dribbles along the back line from neck to tail- directly on the skin for the control and effective removal of Biting lice and other external parasites. Even though this is also a dewormer, it is not effective as a dewormer on goats- Only as an external parasite control- you still need to deworm your goats for internal parasites. Ivermectin pour-on is the only effective parasite control I have seen that effectively rids the goat of Biting lice- This is equal to Ivomec PourOn.*

*Added Note: *Ivomec injectable for cattle is effective against lice for Cattle but not for goats, they have a different  metabolism therefore  the injectable  will not kill lice on goats - therefore the pour on is needed for lice removal.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 10, 2017)

https://media.wix.com/ugd/aded98_c7a6cc3b624043aeaefe8693f9f13c71.pdf
pg2-
With the exception of fenbendazole administered at the 5 mg/kg dose, these drugs are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in goats, and when used in goats are considered extra label use. Fenbendazole at the recommended dose rate of 10 mg/kg is also considered extra-label usage. The FDA regards extra-label use of drugs as an exclusive privilege of the veterinary profession and is only permitted when a bona fide veterinarian-client-patient relationship exists and an appropriate medical diagnosis has been made. The following chart is intended to serve as a guideline for improving accuracy when dosing goats with an anthelmintic, but these drugs should be used in goats only when appropriate veterinary advice has been received.* Cattle pour-on dewormers should NEVER be used in goats to treat internal parasites
*
The op mentioned-


WildOaksManor said:


> Can you tell me what the dangers of the Ivermectin pour on, vs. the oral dose is? It was originally prescribed because one of my older goats came down with a coccidia overload, and also had mites (only one in the herd) and* he decided to opt for the pour on for all of them, to prevent the mites from spreading, and bring everyone's wormings UTD.. He dosed according to their weight.*


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## Bruce (Jan 10, 2017)

That is pretty black and white (changed by @Southern by choice  to red to make it obvious here). Sounds like at least 1 vet needs to bone up on his treatment options.


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## babsbag (Jan 10, 2017)

As a Grade A dairy I can't use them or store them

This is from FARAD as a restricted drug,

*SYSTEMICALLY–ACTING DRUGS THAT ARE APPLIED TOPICALLY* (including *Fenthion*, *Famphur* and *Xylene*, *Phosmet*, *Levamisole* and all *ivermectins* and *avermectins*) – use of, or storage with lactating cattle medications, is a violation of Item 15r-Drug and Chemical Control

@WildOaksManor   I wouldn't be putting  her down just yet, good for you fighting for her. You said that her legs were scabby and sore? There is a leg mite and I would be suspicious of that.


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 10, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> https://media.wix.com/ugd/aded98_c7a6cc3b624043aeaefe8693f9f13c71.pdf
> pg2-
> With the exception of fenbendazole administered at the 5 mg/kg dose, these drugs are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in goats, and when used in goats are considered extra label use. Fenbendazole at the recommended dose rate of 10 mg/kg is also considered extra-label usage. The FDA regards extra-label use of drugs as an exclusive privilege of the veterinary profession and is only permitted when a bona fide veterinarian-client-patient relationship exists and an appropriate medical diagnosis has been made. The following chart is intended to serve as a guideline for improving accuracy when dosing goats with an anthelmintic, but these drugs should be used in goats only when appropriate veterinary advice has been received.* Cattle pour-on dewormers should NEVER be used in goats to treat internal parasites
> *
> The op mentioned-



I realized  that I misunderstood what you were saying
I said in my post that I wouldn't use a pour on to worm
I thought you were saying it in the context that it would be harmful 


It could be an option for external parasites ( upon guidance of your vet)

But by the same token using injectable ivermectin for cattle and swine as an oral for goats is extra label
The same as Cydectin for sheep used on goats
Like you said


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## norseofcourse (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm confused...

@WildOaksManor said "Arrow was wormed with Ivermectin pour-on".  Was the product given orally, or was it poured on externally?  I'm not sure that was made clear (or maybe it was and I missed it).

It does seem that whichever delivery method was used, it wouldn't clear coccidia, so using it for that doesn't seem quite right...

Then the posts regarding whether it's safe... am I reading them right?

@OneFineAcre posted (partial quote): "Ivermectin Pour-On for Cattle
*This is a cattle product but is commonly used on goats as Off Label*"

and @Southern by choice posted (partial quote): "*Cattle pour-on dewormers should NEVER be used in goats to treat internal parasites*"

I underlined two words... seems like both could be right - cattle pour-on dewormers are ok on goats topically (on), but not internally (in).  ??

Poor Arrow, I sure hope something can help her.  I'd likely do a mineral analysis (of her and maybe one of the healthiest looking goats, for a comparison), and try some of the castor oil topically.  I know for myself, warm water makes dry skin feel better temporarily, but it's just as bad if not worse when it dries out again.  Good luck with her...


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 10, 2017)

norseofcourse said:


> I'm confused...
> 
> @WildOaksManor said "Arrow was wormed with Ivermectin pour-on".  Was the product given orally, or was it poured on externally?  I'm not sure that was made clear (or maybe it was and I missed it).
> 
> ...



My post was from one of the goat supply sites and was referencing using it for external parasites
It says that it is not effective for worms in goats

As to the warning on the link SBC shared I'm not sure if it means using as a pour on or using the pour on product orally

Good question


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 11, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> https://media.wix.com/ugd/aded98_c7a6cc3b624043aeaefe8693f9f13c71.pdf
> pg2-
> With the exception of fenbendazole administered at the 5 mg/kg dose, these drugs are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in goats, and when used in goats are considered extra label use. Fenbendazole at the recommended dose rate of 10 mg/kg is also considered extra-label usage. The FDA regards extra-label use of drugs as an exclusive privilege of the veterinary profession and is only permitted when a bona fide veterinarian-client-patient relationship exists and an appropriate medical diagnosis has been made. The following chart is intended to serve as a guideline for improving accuracy when dosing goats with an anthelmintic, but these drugs should be used in goats only when appropriate veterinary advice has been received.* Cattle pour-on dewormers should NEVER be used in goats to treat internal parasites
> *
> The op mentioned-




ACK! I said he recommended it for mites - I meant LICE. Visible Lice. Not mites. So sorry! 
Like I mentioned previously, I don't know a ton about goats and the things that plague them. Yet. 

(So, would it make more sense that he prescribed it? The thing that confuses me, is before the Ivermectin, they had medium levels of internal parasites, and the last fecals, done last week (after 3 months) showed low levels. No other wormers were used. ??)


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 11, 2017)

norseofcourse said:


> I'm confused...
> 
> @WildOaksManor said "Arrow was wormed with Ivermectin pour-on".  Was the product given orally, or was it poured on externally?  I'm not sure that was made clear (or maybe it was and I missed it).
> 
> ...



The Ivermectin was POURED on, from the base of the neck to tail.

I'm confused as well. The goat with the high coccidia load had a fecal done prior to the Ivermectin, showing high numbers at the end of Sept. Then Ivermectin was applied, (9-30-16)  as well as many immune boosting remedies, an anti-biotic, molasses in warm water 3 x's daily, extra grain, pro-biotics, minerals, ACV in water, yeast, etc.....then fecal repeated last week. All clear. What would have gotten rid of the coccidia? It wouldn't go away on it's own, right??

*Edited to correct spelling error


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## babsbag (Jan 11, 2017)

No, coccidia does not go away on its own. Do you have absolute faith in the person running the fecals?  I am baffled as to why any vet would prescribe any kind of wormer for coccidia, they ALL know better than that. Something doesn't fit is all that I can say. 

I asked this earlier, but want to make sure that you saw this. Are you sure that she does not have leg mites? Your description would make me suspect leg mites. Also the bumps on the ears would make me suspect mites. From what I have read you would need to actually rub the treatment on the legs, not just pour it on their backs for leg mites. I would certainly try the Nu-Stock, I have heard good things about that stuff.


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 11, 2017)

babsbag said:


> No, coccidia does not go away on its own. Do you have absolute faith in the person running the fecals?



Well, no, that was my first encounter with this particular veterinary clinic, and my first Ill doe....But I can't think of why they would falsify the results either. ?? 



babsbag said:


> I asked this earlier, but want to make sure that you saw this. Are you sure that she does not have leg mites? Your description would make me suspect leg mites. Also the bumps on the ears would make me suspect mites. From what I have read you would need to actually rub the treatment on the legs, not just pour it on their backs for leg mites. I would certainly try the Nu-Stock, I have heard good things about that stuff.



No, not sure at all. This thread is the first cause for me to consider them as being a possible issue. Would leg mites cause a whole body skin issue? All the way to the tip of her nose? And what would be the best test to get to check for them? They are microscopic/invisible, correct? No way for me to see them?  Is this a likely issue, if all other goats (besides her sister) appear unaffected?


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## babsbag (Jan 11, 2017)

I don't think that the vet would falsify the results but if a technician ran the fecals maybe they didn't see what they thought they did. But then again, sometime it is the vet that misses something as sometimes it is their staff that does all the fecals. Just asking because a wormer would not get rid of cocci and every vet on the planet knows that. But you said an antibiotic...what was she on? Some antibiotics are given for cocci, but they are usually given orally. 

Mites can also cause mange. And yes, they could get them on their ears, their nose, and every where. And not every goat will get them, but it is interesting that her sister is affected too. Here is something I have bookmarked from another site, I will cut and paste. This is not my goat, but  maybe this will help you. Everything I have read says that you need to treat the entire herd or at least all of their pen mates.

_My boy that had it the worst started with flaky, dandruff skin......seemed to be just losing his winter coat, but it kept going and then his skin became crusty. I noticed some itching, nothing major at first. 

I tried everything suggested from topicals to natural remedies.....about the time I would think he was getting better, but then it would get bad again.....it wasn't until I *injected* with Ivomec at 1cc per 40lbs that I saw improvement.....my boys are all doing great now, coats are becoming healthy again.......I also copper bolused mine every 6 months of which was due about the time I started having issues......so I bolused them and I also gave them supportive supplements for 2 weeks during the worst of this nightmare...... B Complex, vit E capsules, zinc tablets and vit C.....I also used Childrens Benydrel for itching. I did dip my worst guy with permectin II at the same time I injected with Ivomec, the other 2 boys I injected and then dusted with permectin powder....you need to treat at least 2x's 10 days apart and maybe 3x's depending on how bad they are._


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## OneFineAcre (Jan 11, 2017)

babsbag said:


> I don't think that the vet would falsify the results but if a technician ran the fecals maybe they didn't see what they thought they did. But then again, sometime it is the vet that misses something as sometimes it is their staff that does all the fecals. Just asking because a wormer would not get rid of cocci and every vet on the planet knows that. But you said an antibiotic...what was she on? Some antibiotics are given for cocci, but they are usually given orally.
> 
> Mites can also cause mange. And yes, they could get them on their ears, their nose, and every where. And not every goat will get them, but it is interesting that her sister is affected too. Here is something I have bookmarked from another site, I will cut and paste. This is not my goat, but  maybe this will help you. Everything I have read says that you need to treat the entire herd or at least all of their pen mates.
> 
> ...



We have had a couple of does with mites.  Hair loss around their eyes and you could see the bites on their hooves and between.
Ivermectin injections is what helped them.


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## Bruce (Jan 11, 2017)

I would think that castor oil would help with the mites as well as the other skin problems, It will smother them.


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 13, 2017)

I was able to get her to hold still long enough to get a few pictures. At this point, my next move is to treat for mineral deficiency, or mites. Wondering if anyone can tell from the pics which one I should try first? I would prefer to test/treat for the most likely scenario, if I can, then wait before treating for the other, so I can see which treatment actual achieves results.
(The coconut oil seems to be helping with the cracking and bleeding skin, but obviously, she needs some other type of treatment, I think)
@Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @babsbag @NH homesteader @norseofcourse @OneFineAcre


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 13, 2017)

Had to put the pics in 2 posts - apparently, I'm a security threat.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 13, 2017)

Actually I'd be doing both. I would be treating for mites and starting her on supplements.

@babsbag  what do you think about multi-min for this goat? It is Rx so not sure if the vet will prescribe.


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## NH homesteader (Jan 13, 2017)

I really don't know but the poor dear looks so sad. I don't think treating for mites would hurt her even if it isn't mites, right? I don't know about minerals and such... Just wanted to say sorry she's dealing with this


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## WildOaksManor (Jan 13, 2017)

Southern by choice said:


> Actually I'd be doing both. I would be treating for mites and starting her on supplements.
> 
> @babsbag  what do you think about multi-min for this goat? It is Rx so not sure if the vet will prescribe.



So, she's on Manna Pro Goat right now...would I continue to give her that, and also give her a zinc supplement? Copper bolus? Is there a certain product I can order? I'd like to treat her sister at the same time....should I treat all 8 goats? (all does, except one 4 month old buckling) 

THANK YOU for your help! I am hopeful she will NOT have to be put down!


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 13, 2017)

Poor girl. I know this must be hard on you too 

Are you able to do a mineral analysis? 
You might have posted it and I missed it.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 13, 2017)

Before giving all these things PLEASE have the blood drawn and get a mineral analysis done! Keep giving the minerals but here is what is important... without the data and you start giving stuff you could end up giving toxic amounts. Toxicity often mimics deficiency. The other side is you want to KNOW what it is that helps. Throwing too much at once is not a good idea. You can get the lab reports back in a few days and that data is significant! Meanwhile I would treat all goats and change all bedding.  

Ideally it would be great to kind of isolate her.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 13, 2017)

above- treat for mites/lice and change bedding


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## babsbag (Jan 13, 2017)

I would do the Multi-min 90 if the vet will give you the script for it.


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## Kolibree (Jan 23, 2017)

Any updates?


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## Bruce (Jan 24, 2017)

Excellent question! Inquiring minds want to know!


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## Alibo (Feb 22, 2017)

What about zinc applied directly on the skin?
 I second castor oil as well, everybody loves coconut oil but it is such a light oil it really does not have as strong of properties as your heavier oils, including olive and hemp seed. I have always used a calendula and plantain infused olive oil or castor oil for Everything. 
 calendula is a strong anti fungal as well as a very soothing healer. Plantain is a strong anti bacterial and healer with anti inflammatory properties.
  I am not sure if zinc applied topically on goats is safe but if one of mine were in that situation I would use a topical zinc diluted with an infused castor oil. That will help soothe and heal. Of course in conjuction with the injection of ivermectin for mites.


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## Bruce (Feb 22, 2017)

It has been over a month since the OP was on, guess we aren't likely to get an update.


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## Alibo (Feb 22, 2017)

that's a shame, I try to read every problem to the end and see what solution worked best. Just to be prepared


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## Goat Whisperer (Feb 22, 2017)

I know, always makes me sad when you pour so much time and effort into people and then POOF they never come back…


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## Alibo (Feb 22, 2017)

I have to say I feel like I am guilty of doing that at least once or twice before I realized what a gem this site is!


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