# Kind of a Crazy Goat Question about Breeding



## tiffanyh (Oct 18, 2010)

Has anyone every experience a goat (or any livestock) with retained testicles getting a doe pregnant? I know retained testicles are supposed to be sterile- and I thought he is as this is why he was allowed to run with the does- but I wanted to see if others had any experience in this area. There is little on the internet about it other than sterility.

He is going in for an exploratory to remove the undesended on Wednesday-I was a certified vet tech so my old hospital/surgeon will perform it- but just recently my doe who is still occasionally nursing her 6 month old baby has seemed to have stopped going into heat. She was going in and out of heat throughout the summer. She has a small bag but I am hoping that is from her  kid.

Anyone ever hear anything about this? Obviously I have to wait and see since i am horrible at palpating but......???


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## warthog (Oct 18, 2010)

I have certainly never heard of it.  But will be interested to see the replies.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 18, 2010)

It is definitely a possibility.  I know in alpacas, they don't recommend letting a male with undescended testicles run with the females.


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## tiffanyh (Oct 18, 2010)

> It is definitely a possibility.  I know in alpacas, they don't recommend letting a male with undescended testicles run with the females.


Uh oh.  Just curious the situation you heard about. Now I am a bit worried. Honestly, there was if they functioned properly since he did not even act bucky or interested until 2 yrs. They are way up there too, I had him ultrasounded before his surgery.

Great (sarcasm). Just great. (More sarcasm).


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## ksalvagno (Oct 18, 2010)

I don't know of any specific incidences myself but my vet has talked about it. She has always said that as long as a male has testicles, it is always a possibility to get a female pregnant.

She had even come across a 4 month old alpaca male that got a 6 month old female pregnant. In alpacas, this is pretty unheard of. Males usually aren't able to get females pregnant until over 6 months of age and usually even then they aren't fertile enough.


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## aggieterpkatie (Oct 19, 2010)

It most certainly is a possibility.  *Usually* the increased body heat will kill off sperm, but there are definitely instances where a cryptorchid or an animal that was banded improperly has impregnated a female!


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## ()relics (Oct 19, 2010)

First off some basic buck/male physiology.  Sperm is produced in the seminiferous tubules of the testes.  The testies are slightly cooler than the body, and can regulate their own temperature, because they hang outside the body in the scrotum.  Spermatogenisis, or  the manufactoring of sperm, needs to take place at alower temperature than the body's core temperature.  
So techincally a male with 1 or both testicles retained is still a male and _can_ produce sperm but because the testes are retained in the body most of it is either inviable or damaged, but some can be intact and functioning.  So a male would, again techinally, act and perform like any other male except that his sperm would either, again, be inviable or damaged, because of the raised temperature....most of it.  Some, of the sperm, would be able to fertilize an egg providing "just the right set of variables"were present....Meaning the chances are slim but do exsist that he would be able to put _some_ of his "stuff" in the right place at the right time, and then _some_ of it could possibly find its way to the egg and could possibly fertilize it...The chances are small but exsist.
So why is that bad?  You want your bucks to be as fertile and viable as possible so the resulting mating will yeild the best possible chance for a successful and multiple birth.  A breeding from a retained buck will most likely not be _As_ productive as a mating with a properly functioning male.  That would be the reason for immediate removal/culling of a buck with a retained tesicle...You want to give your does the best chance to be as fertile as possible...
I occasionally run into the problem and wether then market the animal asap...a retained testicle left to its own demise will turn into a GIANT internal "tumor" as the testicle grows as the animal matures.....
Please forgive my goat physiology 301 terms and please correct if they are wrong....it has been _Several_ years since I last had an animal phys book in my hands.


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## tiffanyh (Oct 19, 2010)

Relics...thanks for the info..your 301 lingo sound about right to me!  Just out of curiosity, how do you end up whethering these retained males you have come across?

I knew that the core body temp was too high so I *thought* is would be a definite for non-viable sperm. It is high, above the inguinal canal, so were not even talking close to the scrotum.

Anyway, my doe is not going into heat. Im hoping she missed a cycle and will watch her close for the next one. If she hadnt skipped, I wouldnt even be thinking much of it but he was her favorite, now he never bothers her.

He heads in tomorrow for his surgery. He doesnt need to "earn his keep" so he can hang around and keep me entertained. He really is a nice little goat, despite his hormones controlling him recently!

Thanks guys!


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## ()relics (Oct 19, 2010)

...band whats hanging and leave the rest...they go to slaughter before the retained junk becomes a problem...


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## Melissa'sDreamFarm (Oct 20, 2010)

I was told by a vet that a retained testicle in a goat is an expensive surgery and sometimes the goats do not make it through the surgery or there have been times they just couldn't find the testicle.


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## tiffanyh (Oct 20, 2010)

I had an ultrasound to find the retained testicle so we could know exactly where it was and he had his surgery today...all is well. It was expensive but not horrible and since he is a pet  and plan on keeping him "forever" or at least for his "forever", I didnt mind putting the $ in. 

But yes, you are absolutely right, can be a dangerous surgery and they cant always find them....


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## warthog (Oct 20, 2010)

Glad it all went well for you.


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## helmstead (Oct 21, 2010)

haha I didn't see there was a page two and threw in my 2 cents...after the fact!  Glad it went well...


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## tiffanyh (Oct 22, 2010)

Im always have for more "cents" being throw my way!


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