# Going halves on a buck



## MrsDieselEngineer (Oct 18, 2011)

Okay folks!  I have the opportunity to buy half of a REALLY nice Boer buck.  He is 3 years old, and registered (checking this info to make sure).  I'm going to get some pictures of him so I can get opinions on him from you all here 
Have any of you owned half a buck?  Pros/Cons to doing this?  I don't want to end up in something that isn't going to work out.  The buck would reside here at our farm.


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## RainySunday (Oct 18, 2011)

I haven't done this myself, but the things I would think about are...: Is the other herd he will be servicing disease-free?  How will you decide who gets him during breeding season?  If he is residing at your place, who is paying for feed, fence maintenance, vet care, etc?  I would want to have all that spelled out and agreed to ahead of time, so it doesn't get weird later.

Good luck though!


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 18, 2011)

nurturingnaturally said:
			
		

> I haven't done this myself, but the things I would think about are...: Is the other herd he will be servicing disease-free?  How will you decide who gets him during breeding season?  If he is residing at your place, who is paying for feed, fence maintenance, vet care, etc?  I would want to have all that spelled out and agreed to ahead of time, so it doesn't get weird later.
> 
> Good luck though!


Agreed!


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## Tapsmom (Oct 18, 2011)

Ok I can't resist.  Are you buying the fron half or the back half   I would say the back half would be more advantageous in a breeding buck..OK, I'll get back to work now...


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## marlowmanor (Oct 18, 2011)

Tapsmom said:
			
		

> Ok I can't resist.  Are you buying the fron half or the back half   I would say the back half would be more advantageous in a breeding buck..OK, I'll get back to work now...




I was thinking the same thing when I read the original post. I just decided to not say it! . Thanks for saying what I was thinking.


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## MrsDieselEngineer (Oct 18, 2011)

That's just too funny  

Thanks for the advice, I'm hoping to get some pictures this afternoon....


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## 77Herford (Oct 18, 2011)

nurturingnaturally said:
			
		

> I haven't done this myself, but the things I would think about are...: Is the other herd he will be servicing disease-free?  How will you decide who gets him during breeding season?  If he is residing at your place, who is paying for feed, fence maintenance, vet care, etc?  I would want to have all that spelled out and agreed to ahead of time, so it doesn't get weird later.
> 
> Good luck though!


Agreed, make a contract and have witnesses.  I have done this with Bull's and you should get everything spelled out.


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## MrsDieselEngineer (Oct 18, 2011)

Pictures!!!  I need brutally honest opinions on this guy... I think he's put together very well but 























Sorry about the quality of the pics, it was getting dark and my cheap digital camera doesn't do very well!


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## Renegade (Oct 18, 2011)

Are you breeding for show or meat? If you're breeding for meat he will be fine. If you're breeding for show I would like to see more neck and longer legs.He also appears to be weak on his pasterns.

Donna Finley
Finley Boers


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 18, 2011)

Renegade said:
			
		

> Are you breeding for show or meat? If you're breeding for meat he will be fine. If you're breeding for show I would like to see more neck and longer legs.He also appears to be weak on his pasterns.
> 
> Donna Finley
> Finley Boers


I had the opportunity to see this buck in person. His previous owner had not trimmed the rear hooves on him, only the front hooves. And it is apparent that Cassenova hadn't had his hooves trimmed in QUITE some time. Once his hooves are trimmed, the pasterns won't look so weak. 
He is quite impressive in person, and will definitely make big beautiful MEATY kids, espescially if he is paired with MrsDieselEngineer's doe Sophia! Goodness would they make beautiful meat kids!


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## redtailgal (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm pretty new to boers but I wanna play too!

I have to agree with Renegade, about the legs and neck.  He seems awful "boxy", if that is the right word.  

I guess it would have to depend on what you wanted to do with the kids.  If they are for eating, then looks dont matter.  If you want to show in the future, I'd have to pass on him.



Is his collar as tight as it looks?


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## MrsDieselEngineer (Oct 18, 2011)

We're breeding primarily for meat and breeding stock to build up our herd.  His collar does look tight but you can easily put your hand under it.  Oh, what to do!


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## doxiemoxie (Oct 18, 2011)

He looks like he might be slightly overconditioned (just like me!, gotta love that word for "overweight"!) Is there a roll in his armpit or is it just hair?

Besides his looks these are other questions I would have.  How was his mother's udder?  four teated or two?   And has he been used for breeding already?  If so, are the does kidding fairly easily or are the babies big headed?  I know Boers usually do not have that much trouble, but it's still a good idea to check.   You might also check for meat quality in his pedigree.  Lastly, if they weren't managing the hooves what else were the owners missing taking care of?   I know none of us is perfect (I won't tell you about my own ewes' feet) but check and double check and make sure you have everything up front before you pay, including already reviewed health care records and registrations.

As far as sharing I agree with the other posters about a detailed contract.  Make sure your partner shares the same philosophy about disease management, feeding, breeding, etc since this will essentially combine your herds.


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## MrsDieselEngineer (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks for the advice, I'll check into his history as far as I can.  And we'll see what sort of contract we can come up with to keep both parties happy.  

Yes, he is "over conditioned" or just plain over weight   LOL


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## that's*satyrical (Oct 19, 2011)

Probably better to go right side/left side.  One testicle each lol.


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## Ms. Research (Oct 19, 2011)

MrsDieselEngineer said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice, I'll check into his history as far as I can.  And we'll see what sort of contract we can come up with to keep both parties happy.
> 
> Yes, he is "over conditioned" or just plain over weight   LOL


Thanks for posting this idea MrsDieselEngineer.  Please keep us posted.  Especially would like to see the contract everyone agrees on.  As someone who will have a small farm with plans on breeding goats, I would be interested to hear how "sharing a buck" works out. 

He does look a bit chunky. :/  Does "over conditioned or just plain over weight affect a male's performance?  Or does this only pertain to does?


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## Renegade (Oct 19, 2011)

There are so many really nice boer bucks out there. I think if you want to produce breeding stock you can do much better. I understand you want to increase your herd but eventually you'll want to sell some does as well. This buck in my opinion is a terminal sire only. He does not have the quality conformation to produce keeper stock. The buck is 50% of your herd. He can make or break you in one crop of kids.

Donna


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 19, 2011)

something about him looks short to me like Renegade said. I can tell you from being at the fair with the kids. You can have all the meat you want on a show whether, but if they look short they place near the bottom of the class. 

Pros:
horn set nice
plenty of muscle(a little over weight to be healthy)
Nice boy parts
nice long stitch(depth of rump under tail head)
nice deep chest
handsome head


Cons:
weak looking legs
short looking in the loin
short looking legs
poor pigmentation at tail head

NOt sure:
check teats(very genetic)
check bite(can get worse as they get older and cause eating problems)
find out if there is any records on his weight when he was 6 months and a year old. 

Good luck on your decision.


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## rascal (Oct 19, 2011)

Don't forget to figure how selling him would go. I currently "share" 5 goats and well I want to sell one but we can't make an agreement on which one!  Plus I have the bucks and she has the does... I was not consulted on breeding and now we've lost another season to an unreg. buck because she "thought" we could get papers.    
Knowing what I know now... I'd be sole owner or find a truly "SILENT" partner.

Basically think of every "worst case" and factor into the contact.


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 19, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> MrsDieselEngineer said:
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Overconditioning in males(goat and human alike) can be a good thing if you are looking for baby girls. I have mentioned this on a couple other threads, but will share it here too. When a male is over weight, the sperm are fatty too. Female sperm do very well being fatty, male sperm will die off quickly, and very few make it to the egg/s. If the male is fit and trim, the sperm will be too, only this makes the male sperm much more agile than the female, and as a result very few female sperm will make it to the egg/s.
                                                                                    *Just as with people, there are a few exceptions to this rule.*


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## doxiemoxie (Oct 19, 2011)

> Does "over conditioned or just plain over weight affect a male's performance?  Or does this only pertain to does?


Not to highjack the thread but also wanted to add to Livinwright's comments about conditioning.  Another reason to get a buck into condition (or even overcondition) is that when breeding season happens a buck may spend all his time (and energy) courting and breeding the does and not eating.  Obviously this is more common with meat goats where a sire will be pastured with a herd of does.

I asked the question because the goats sold for meat should not be "overconditioned."   I was trying to imagine this buck as a lean yearling.

Thank you Mrs DieselEngineer for being brave enough to let us critique this poor ram. (poor as in picked on)


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## MrsDieselEngineer (Oct 19, 2011)

No other place to get brutally honest answers! LOL, overall though he isn't shaping up too badly


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## redtailgal (Oct 19, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

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OK but I thought that an overly conditioned buck has less desire to breed.........fat and lazy per-say?


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 19, 2011)

MrsDieselEngineer said:
			
		

> No other place to get brutally honest answers! LOL, overall though he isn't shaping up too badly


If you ask for honest on here, be prepared to get it.  He certainly would add some nice muscle to the kids when bred to a tall framed doe.


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 19, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

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Not this buck! He is 100% amorous!  vocal, flabbering, nuzzling, you name it!


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## Livinwright Farm (Oct 19, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> MrsDieselEngineer said:
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See, I told you, he would pair beautifully with Sophia!


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