# Should I assist? HELP!!!



## paynemom (Jun 29, 2012)

My first timer Molly(pygmy) seems to be in labor for the last 6 hours, had the long thick rope, but the contractions seem to come and go. Not very consistant. She is clearly pushing, but not all that hard. Lays down, gets back up, paws at the dirt. Won't eat or drink all day. Her vaginal opening is about 2 inches long. Her udder is super full and tight. Should I get in there? Our other goat(her sister) was much faster than this, and didn't need any help at all. 

She is rather unfriendly, so my hubby will have to hold her for me to check. But I wanted advice, should I let her keep going, or see if there's a tangle? How long can the babies stay alive in there during labor. I don't think the bag has popped yet. She doesn't push but three times each cycle of contractions. 

Advice???


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## terrilhb (Jun 29, 2012)

I don't know the answer but I would put this in the Emergency section. If I am wrong I am sorry.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 29, 2012)

That seems like a long time to be in active labor but I am not recommending assistance.   I would put a call in to a vet to give them a heads up that you may need help.  If the kid starts to present incorrectly, you might need to reposition it or have the vet try.  I also say emergency section would be good.


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## paynemom (Jun 29, 2012)

Do you usually wait for a kid to present to start thinking of repositioning?


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## babsbag (Jun 29, 2012)

I am no pro, and I am a big chicken, but I KNOW that my friend would be in there by now and checking for a nose, an ear, a foot, or something to identify the position of the kid. Conctractions with no presentation is one of the times she says to call her. 6 hours in labor might not be that long, but mine don't push for long before they present at least the bubble.

The doe getting up and down and pawing MAY be an indication that she is trying to reposition the kid. They know when they need help.

I would call a vet too, as I stated, I am a big chicken and once I do go in I have little clue as to what I am feeling. 

There are others on here with a lot of experience. Hopefully they will see this post.


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## manybirds (Jun 29, 2012)

just make sure not to pull on the goo rope and dont pop the placenta sac thingy inside of her, it could cause her an infection. i would be kind of nervous to stick my hand up a little pygmy! the doe i had get her kid stuck had her first 2 and got the last one stuck.she was pacing around pawing getting up laying down and pushing, the bubble kept coming and then disappearing. after and hour or two the pushes became weeker and i went in. i don't know in your situation, i owuld NOT go in unless the bubble had shown itself and within an hour after that there was no baby appearing


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## paynemom (Jun 29, 2012)

Ok, she doesn't seem too distressed, so I think we will wait and watch for progress. So far, since 9 am, no progress at all. Only pushing every 10 minutes or so now. We'll wait for the bubble to show up, or if she seems worn out. I wish she would drink, it's 100 degrees out here! 

Thanks for everyones help.


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## GLENMAR (Jun 29, 2012)

Good Luck


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## paynemom (Jun 29, 2012)

Bad news...baby(buckling) was dead and positioned with a back foot and head. It took an hour and a half and a lot of effort to get the poor thing out. Was super big and SO stuck in the pelvic bones. We couldn't even get our hands past the head to grab the other legs. I never saw the bubble, probably because she had popped it on her own early this morning before I saw her. All that goo was the baby's fluid. I think it died early this morning, but even if we had interveined earlier, we still couldn't have loosened it without major trauma. We are hoping Molly will be ok tomorrow, but with all that tugging and pushing, I don't think there's much chance. She was a $30 goat, so my hubby ruled out taking her to the vet, unfortunately. But practically I can understand. Our goats are really only for weed eating. I had an experienced goat person on the phone, and she was surprised she lived so long trying to push a baby out in that position.  So discouraged...


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## greybeard (Jun 29, 2012)

Well, this kind of thing happens--just no other way to put it, and as discouragng as it may be, there will be other times where everything goes exactly perfect and it will kinda make up for today's misfortune. Hopefully, Molly goat will be fine--goats are pretty resilent from what little I've seen of them .  I'm not a goat person, so I would be way out of line to offer any care giving advise, but we will all hope things look brighter tommorrow.


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## paynemom (Jun 30, 2012)

Molly made it through the night, actually looks pretty good, but I am worried about infection. We used gloves, iodine, and a lubricant, plus disinfected our hands, but still. There was a lot of traumatic pushing and pulling. I am on my way to buy some antibiotics. What type are the best. Her vulva is super puffy and looks awful. It is so sad. What can we do to help her? She is eating today, which makes me feel better. She is also standing and sitting, not laying all the way down. She's not bleeding, but there is some drainage. 

Also, should we not breed this doe anymore? Is she just too narrow boned? I don't ever want to have to do that again.


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## Peeka52 (Jun 30, 2012)

How big was the buck you bred her to? If she lives and is healthy enough, next time you breed her you could use a really small buck.


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## SheepGirl (Jun 30, 2012)

Normally when you have to assist a ewe, you give them a round of Pen G. I imagine it's the same for goats.


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## paynemom (Jun 30, 2012)

The buck is a pygmy too, pretty small. And I did buy the pen g and will that to her now. Thanks!


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## crazyland (Jun 30, 2012)

How old is Molly? She might have been to young to breed.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jun 30, 2012)

crazyland said:
			
		

> How old is Molly? She might have been to young to breed.


X2


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## paynemom (Jun 30, 2012)

She was a bit young. When I bought them we were told they were 6 months old, and that was 4 months ago. She was already bred. My does are separate from our buck here. She isn't super small, the size of our buck and her twin sister that kidded no problem, her pelvic bones were just so narrow. Will she still grow or is she stunted? I am wondering if I should ever let her breed again. I would never want that to happen to anyone again! I gave her a shot of pen g, hoping that helps. Is up and eating, don't know if she's drinking, won't do it in front of me. Back end is all puffed out and torn up. She is scared to death of me, rightly so. I have electrolytes in her water. Do you think she will be better next year, if she survives?


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 30, 2012)

She was young but with antibiotics and the good care you are giving, she will probably be okay.  Her backside will likely look better in a week and I would bet she is sore.

As far as the effect on her size or on subsequent breeding, I am not sure really.  If she were here, I'd probably keep her well feed with free choice hay and a daily ration of grain, plus minerals for at least six months and maybe longer and then reassess her.  If she has grown to a healthy height and weight, she might be okay to breed again.

So sorry again that it ended like this---we had one last year that was in labor and pushing for awhile, not progressing, and we had the same thing happen (big big buckling, front legs back and not budging-he was gone by the time we got him out.  My 8 year old son, who had helped to deliver the one before him, was absolutely crushed.)


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## paynemom (Jun 30, 2012)

Thanks for your kind words. Are Pygmy's more prone to this because of their size. The little guy was almost 7 pounds! Molly herself only weighs about 45!


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 30, 2012)

Pygmys do have problems sometimes due to their compact size (our stillborn was a pygmy and baby was almost 6 pounds!  The doe was around 70-75 lbs and we bred her to a buck that was smaller than her).


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## Roll farms (Jun 30, 2012)

Single buck kids tend to be larger than twins, and harder for smaller does to get out.  
There've only been 2 kids I couldn't get out in many years of helping, one was a 6# pygmy and the other a 12# Oberhasli x Togg buckling.

Keep the Pen G up for at least 7 days, watch for any 'abnormal' discharge (chunky, greenish, or stinky) and a B vitamin shot wouldn't hurt.  Make sure she's UTD on CD/T.

Sorry you lost the boy.  FWIW, I never let a doe go longer than 1 hr w/ out going in and checking things out.  I learned that one the hard way.

Sounds like you're doing a fine job w/ mama, though.


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## greybeard (Jul 2, 2012)

So--how is she doing?


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## paynemom (Jul 2, 2012)

Pretty good! I am giving her the pen g still, and she is up and eating and seems to be doing well.i am still watching her closely for an infection or uterine tear.really hoping she pulls through!


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## greybeard (Jul 2, 2012)

Good deal!!


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## SDBoerGoats (Jul 2, 2012)

Awww, so sorry this happened, I had the same thing this past winter, a doe had triplets and the first one came out ok with pulling, but the other two were all twisted up, it was a mess. They were both dead, and she died  later that night, just too much trauma for her. At least Molly is up and eating, I think maybe with the pen g she will be ok, as far as re breeding, who knows. She might have some scar tissue after this, or she just might be ok with the penicillin.


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