# looking at a bred heifer - even More questions added! About $$$$$$$$$



## kelsey2017 (Sep 13, 2011)

Hi I am inquiring about a Jersey/Shorthorn cross heifer that is 15 months old and is thought to be bred.  She would be trained to be our family milk cow and be a cowshare with a neighbor.  I Have never had a bovine before but have other animals and am not worried about the commitment required to raise one and all that, but I do have a few just general questions that a book won't be able to answer. 

       She won't be kept with other cattle but won't be alone either, she will be in with our two sheep and my very gentle TB gelding.  There are beef cattle that live right next door and I am wondering if she will be upset by seeing and hearing other bovines but not getting to live with them?  I don't want to try and catch her if she gets loose with them on 80 acres!

       The man I would be buying her from just has family cows for their use and is selling her because they don't need her but she is too nice to just butcher.  He SAYS she was in heat (just this last month) and has been running with the Jersey bull and hasn't come back into heat.  I don't know this man and have no reason to take his word for anything at all. So my question is if she were a free-martin could her body still think she was bred (like a false pregnancy- or phantom pregnancy) even though  she would be infertile? Is there anyway to tell at all or am I completely at the mercy of this mans honesty?

       And then the price- He was asking $750 on CL but when I called he said $650 if I paid him cash.  I do think that in my area that seems like a fair price for her if she truly is bred and I will have two bovines and MILK (yay!) in May, but it is a big gamble if she isn't bred.  I do plan on asking my friend, a 50+ years of experience, cattleman to come with me when I go to see her.  But I don't want to pay for a vetting.  Any opinions? Thanks guys!

P.S. This site and BYC are dangerous.  I found BYC for the chicken forum and have since acquired turkeys, ducks, and sheep as well!  Look out - here come cows!


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## herfrds (Sep 13, 2011)

A free martin is a sterile female. I've heard people say they can be bred, but we had one and she was unbreedable. Vet tested her.

If she was in heat and running with a bull does not mean a whole lot. Some cows won't stand for the bull or the bull might have no interest in that particle cow. I've seen that happen.
Best way to tell is have a vet palpate her, but if she is only less then 30 days it would be hard to tell.

You may not want to pay for the vet, but if you do not know how to palpate for an embroy then you will be running the risk of having an open heifer you poured a bunch of time and feed into and no calf or milk to show for it.

Did this guy tell you she was a free martin? If he did run the other way.


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## jhm47 (Sep 14, 2011)

A freemarten is a heifer twin to a bull calf.  Doubtful that this is the case here.  If the heifer actually came into heat, she is definitely NOT a freemarten.  They don't cycle at all.  If you have all these doubts, I'd scratch up the $$$ to have a vet check her.  Cheaper in the long run.  There is also a blood test that can be done to establish pregnancy.  Costs around $20.  Good luck!


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks do much for your replies.  No he did not say she was a free martin.  I do know that they are sterile but I didn't know if they cycle at all.  And I wanted to be armed with some knowledge of how that worked.  So the info was great! 

Any opinions on her sharing fence lines with other cattle?  The beef cows and their calves are next to us two or three times a summer and will be going home soon, so maybe if they are gone before I bring her home and not back until next spring it won't be a problem.  I just don't want her to be lonesome for bovine company!  I have two (at least) of every other species for that reason.  I do think though that I would like the time she would be away from other cows to help her bond with me and my children.  I know that I needed to have my TB alone so we could bond, because it seems that an unhandled animal needs to be looking for companionship and only have their "new" human for it until they learn to trust you.  

Oh and I do think a vet 'round here would be considerably more than $20!  BUt I will look into it because I don't know anyone with a small Bull to breed her and the seller does have a Jersey bull which would be what I want at least for the first and second breedings.  She will only be about 750# full grown so the neighbors HUGE(!!!) black Angus just won't work!


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 14, 2011)

You may also be able to get another cattle farmer to preg check her.  They glove up, reach in the upper hole and feel downwards for a baby.  Some of em skip the glove.


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 14, 2011)

What would you be feeling for in real early pregnancy? He said she was in heat in Aug.  I probably wouldn't think it was too gross if I did it.


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## Okie Amazon (Sep 14, 2011)

It sounds like a vet exam might be money well spent, lest you end up with a "milk" cow with no milk and no baby!  You can send blood in to Pan American Labs in Texas for a pregnancy test very cheaply.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm a goat person not a cow person.  All I know is there is a way of feeling for the pregnancy. It may have to be further along than a month to tell though.



Found a site on it.  

http://www.vetmed.lsu.edu/eiltslotus/theriogenology-5361/bovine_pregnanacy.htm


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 15, 2011)

I am going to look at me prospective heifer, what should I make sure I ask about?  I don't know what vaccinations cows get and what tests they should have.  I think I can figure out from my reading what things to look for as far as conformation, temperament, condition etc.  I will be able to see the heifers mother and hopefully get to see her milked and also see the bull that she was bred to as well.  What things should I MAKE SURE I ask?


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## jodief100 (Sep 15, 2011)

I recomend a TB and burcilious test.  Both of those can be passed to people from the milk.  I am a goat person, do not know much about cows.  There may be more I don't know about.


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 16, 2011)

I just was looking around on Cl all over my area because I wanted to know if I was going to be paying a fair price.  I seems I am getting a steal, so now I am a little worried!  The man was advertising the heifer at $750 and within a few minutes of talking to him he said if I bring cash I can have a deal.  So I says "what kind of deal?" If I pay him in all $20's I can have her for $650.  After doing scientific research (on CL!)  I could not find one even open heifer Jersery or Jersey cross for under $900.  Everything else sounds legit though, and he said that they were planning on selling her as a calf and didn't get around to it and would like her to go before winter.  Oh I don't know whether to be nervous or jump on it!  This sort of sucks, I don't really see why he would sell her at all.  Does anyone think it would be helpful to have him sign a paper that she wouldn't be a free martin?  This whole thing has my head hurting- I do NOT want to be a sucker!  Last night I whipped out my trusty collection of Countryside and found an article on free martins, what sort of physical differences they have and such but I am still an untrained eye.  OH Woes me the first- timer!


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## CESpeed (Sep 16, 2011)

I don't know what area you are in, but I do know that a lot of cattle are being sold at really low prices because farmers can't afford to feed them.  If you are really unsure, go visit several farms in your area and look at the cows.  How does this heifer look in comparasion?  Look at pictures online and in books.  How does she compare?

I bought a car from CL for $500 in 2007.  It was a 1989 Mazada 323 with around 100K miles on it.  I thought it was too good to be true but the mechanic told me that if I didn't buy it, he would.  With no servicing, the car had about 50K miles, after I completed his list (less than $1000) it was good for another 100K.  Sometimes people don't know what they have,  other times, people just want to get rid of something.

Good Luck.


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 16, 2011)

I would figure out what her market price would be and then if you are paying close to that you are getting a fair deal because if she is not bred/fertile then she is worth her weight as hamburger.


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## herfrds (Sep 19, 2011)

Just save the time and runiing around and have the vet out to ultrasound her.

Ours just did my milk cow and she is postively bred at 30 days.


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 20, 2011)

I bought her anyway! After seeing her I feel I am making a good gamble.  If i feed her all winter and she is not preggos she is still mine and I will have experience with handling a bovine and she will be older.  No big deal, she is at least worth her weight.  The guys cows are cool and a little over crowded, not bad, but she could use some groceries.  I am actually thinking of bringing him a half dozen of my 8# meatbirds and trying to talk him into sending me home with one of his little jersery banded boys for company.  I can put them in the stock trailer- it won't hurt to ask!
I am going tomorrow! So Unbelievably excited!!!!


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Sep 20, 2011)

kelsey2017 said:
			
		

> I bought her anyway! After seeing her I feel I am making a good gamble.  If i feed her all winter and she is not preggos she is still mine and I will have experience with handling a bovine and she will be older.  No big deal, she is at least worth her weight.  The guys cows are cool and a little over crowded, not bad, but she could use some groceries.  I am actually thinking of bringing him a half dozen of my 8# meatbirds and trying to talk him into sending me home with one of his little jersery banded boys for company.  I can put them in the stock trailer- it won't hurt to ask!
> I am going tomorrow! So Unbelievably excited!!!!


Best wishes!  Make sure to put up pictures when you get some!


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 20, 2011)

Totally need pictures!!    Congrats on her. Sounds like it has the chance of being a great starter cow.


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 20, 2011)

Oh thank you! She is going to be great.  She is snug as a bug in the barn with the sheep and I just went out to shut off the light.  The wolves are close again though, howling not far away, makes me sick to my stomach.  She has been quiet with the light on but now she is mooing again.  I thought if the light was out the animals would not move around much and be quiet.  I am not very fond of the wolves here.  My place is surrounded by cow pasture (for my landlords beef cows and calves) on all sides but a narrow strip 100' wide behind my barn.  My horses are there and alert our surviving dog to things that don't belong.  Our dog doesn't bark at anything less serious than a bear and wolves are not less serious.  We have lost (our fault should have kept them in a kennel) three dogs plus injury to others due to encounters with wolves.  Not barely three weeks ago my neighbor about 2.5 miles away lost several sheep to a large wolf while she was home.  She saw some of it happen, while she was in the pasture tending the poor torn apart creature the wolf jumped back over the fence and killed one right before her eyes.  She said she wet her pants.  The DNR around here brushed her off initially but after another well respected neighbor corroborated her story they came out and set a trap.  Got the beast within two days and relocated it.  There are a lot of them around when I see them basking in the sun in the field or have pictures of my children standing on the road while a pup plays just down the road from them.  I love wolves too, Mn would not be the same and they totally deserved a chance to come back but they should have been off the list of threatened species some time ago.  JMHO though.  Oh and she has settled down- I have not heard a peep for awhile now.

   AND BACK TO THE MATTER AT HAND I love her! She was very cooperative and hopped right up in the trailer, hauled very well and was calm in the barn and then later out in the pen.  She let me think I was in charge leading her and then let me brush her all over.  She is going to be way easier to gentle than I imagined (knock on wood).  So here are the pictures!  We have named her Kjersten.
fresh out of the trailer






checkin everything out and grain bucket ready to reclaim attention if need be





Hanging out in the barn with kids 





Would someone tell me why these turkeys are mocking me? Every time I try to moo 5 turkeys gobble in unison!




Well take my word for it I grabbed the wrong pic so you can't see the turkeys but that was funny!
I hope it doesn't last though.


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## Royd Wood (Sep 20, 2011)

kelsey2017 said:
			
		

> within a few minutes of talking to him he said if I bring cash I can have a deal.  So I says "what kind of deal?" If I pay him in all $20's I can have her for $650.


Sounds like a dodgy dealer as you can't pay someone $650 in $20's 

Looks like you got yourself a nice cow - wolves  There are two timber wolves knocking around here even though the authorities say no wolves in Niagara


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 21, 2011)

The DNR tells us we don't have mountain lions here.  I am on some cats route here every December within the first week there are tracks in the snow moving in a line from the NW corner of the property to the SE only 200' from the back of the house.  I have also seen one. I didn't report it though because I knew they would disregard me as someone who had seen a bear.  The one I saw was black.  I have told that story to a couple people that also had seen a black one.  I don't see why it couldn't happen, I would think it would be easy for that color to come out in a PANTHER!  

OH and this guy (and his family) were a little different. When I met him I think he is quirky and give him the 20's.  Maybe he just likes the fad wad of cash when you have 33 bills in your hand.  I don't care, I have a new sound on the farm!

I half thought about only giving him $640 for that reason! 

Edited for "a took me awhile to get the 'dodgey dealer' joke moment"


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## SuburbanFarmChic (Sep 21, 2011)

Looks good!   So glad she's so sweet, it sounds like you got a great starter cow


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Sep 21, 2011)

She is beautiful!  Congrats!  Sounds like she is fitting in well.  I get the whole DNR thing and I'm sure you do have Mountain Lions.  I KNOW and when I say I know, I mean I KNOW, that a few years back I saw a wolf when I was hunting.  I've been in the Maine woods for many years and I know what a fox and coyote look like.  This was a wolf!  Like you, doesn't matter to me who believes or not, I know what I saw.  Also our very good friends down the road have a picture of a Bobcat in their driveway.  We don't have those around here either!    Sorry, got off topic! 

Anyhoo, I hope that she continues to blend well on your farm.  Sounds like she has a great start!


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## PattySh (Sep 21, 2011)

She is adorable and looks very tame. Definately a plus for a family milk cow. CONGRATS!


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 22, 2011)

The horns have to go though.  They make me nervous.  It doesn't matter how careful I am they are dangerous.  In the two days shes been here I have found that I move her with them.  I know that is bad because of the 'move into pressure' response.  I am going to make her rammy, but it is just hard to not want to know where they are.  I need to carry my riding crop for nose bops, I was using my hand to bop her on the nose so she wouldn't crowd me in the barn.  It doesn't hurt their feelings like it does a horse, it's just a reaction to an action for her so as long as I am consistent she should learn to respect my space.  I am going to leave the horns on until she knows us better and the flies are froze out.  
   I am leaning toward having my vet do it.  I think they are too big to band and I don't want to do the cut-into-the-skull thing to her unless she is sedated.  Sounds like a LOT of blood.  Besides I  am not _that_ much of a farmer that I can start cutting open LIVE animals- eeeeeeech.  I'll take it slow with my "merit badges".  Besides when the vet comes out she can ultrasound her and give her any vaccines or blood tests.  I know she has never had any of that before and I want her to at the very least get a rabies and tetanus.


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## Stubbornhillfarm (Sep 22, 2011)

I think you are wise with having her horns removed after the flies are gone, by a professional.  We will be having our Jerseys horns removed some time in the next month or two.  We too decided to wait until after fly season and the vet will scoop them.  No need to do that before the flies are gone and risk illness.  Just keep doing as you are and know where to horns are.  One of my little guys must have bumped me a few weeks back.  It obviously wasn't bad because I don't even remember it happening, but all of a sudden a had a huge ugly bruise on the back side of my thigh.  Apparently I am delicate!!


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## herfrds (Sep 22, 2011)

Need a squeeze chute and a head catch to knock them horns off. Too big for the cups. Vet will have to wire cut them off and burn the cut area. Not pleasant, but it gets the job done.

We had to have the same thing done on some bull calves we banded.


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## kelsey2017 (Sep 23, 2011)

I feel bad that it didn't get done when she was younger.  I am thinking her calf will be horned too because the bull had horns.  When I breed her next time, if I make sure to use a polled bull the calf won't have horns, am I correct?


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## WildRoseBeef (Sep 24, 2011)

kelsey2017 said:
			
		

> I feel bad that it didn't get done when she was younger.  I am thinking her calf will be horned too because the bull had horns.  When I breed her next time, if I make sure to use a polled bull the calf won't have horns, am I correct?


Correct.  Horns are always going to be recessive to the polled gene, so yes, the most natural way to knock any horns off her calves is to put a polled pull on her.  However, that bull has to be homozygous polled, not hetero.  If he's hetero you could have a 50% chance that she will throw a horned calf.


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