# Feeding my bucks/Preventing urinary calculi



## Pearce Pastures (Feb 9, 2012)

Morning all,

I have been reading over some posts on feeding bucks to get myself ready for our first boys who are coming home in a few weeks.  I was planning on giving them they same hay we feed our girls, but not giving them grains as it seems that is a no no with boys (more so with whethers I have read).  Please correct me if I am misinformed on that point as well.

The thing I am wondering about is the hay I have is, per the person I bought it from, a blend of "alfalfa, clover, grass mix ".  After reading, I am a little confused---will the alfalfa in this potentially cause problems?  Or should I be feeding the boys something else or supplementing it with something else?

I also noted  that giving them ammonium chloride is not a bad idea but how often does this treatment need to be given?  Monthly?  Annually?  Or should it be a continual thing? (Thank you *cmjust0* "The ammonium chloride we use for goats is water soluble, so it's simply mixed with water and given orally ('drenched')..  The dosage I'd recommend is about 3g/22lbs of goat, 1x/day for about a week.")



ETA
Okay couple more q's....

1) Thought noble/purina goat feeds were mostly grain and therefore bad for boys but I am seeing several feeds that say it is okay for bucks to have this along with hay
2) BOSS....good for boys?  How often?  I looked this up on TSC and found it only in the bird feed section---is that right or do you get it somewhere else?
3) Billy Blocks from TSC...I give my does the goat block because they prefer it over the loose minerals but is this Billy Block better for boys?


I am starting to get a little nervous about feeding my guys now....deeeep breath!


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## HankTheTank (Feb 9, 2012)

They should have Ammonium Chloride every day. At the farm I work at, we have it in a powdered form ad we just sprinkle it on their grain. Some grains, like Noble Goat, already have that in it. If you aren't planning on feeding grain, there are loose minerals that have it in it, I think Manna Pro Goat Mineral does. Some people put Apple Cider Vinegar in their drinking water, that's supposed to work too.


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## that's*satyrical (Feb 9, 2012)

My boy gets:

1/2 noble goat & 1/2 alfalfa pellet mix, handful or 2 of BOSS
manna pro goat mineral (contains AC)
alfalfa mix hay


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 9, 2012)

my opinion and experience is that grain isn't always bad for your bucks, what is bad is improper calcium to phosphorus ratio in the feeds you are giving him, even just grass hays with no grain can have too much phosphorus compared to calcium, your water can also contribute to improper balance. 

running out of water, for even half a day, can increase your males chance of developing UC. 

Feeding a balanced grain with atleast twice as much calcium than phosphorus, with ammonia chloride will help prevent UC. make sure your goat mineral has atleast double the calcium than phosphorus. 

Grain has  gotten a bad reputation, because, too many people are feeding the wrong grain, too much corn in it, and not treated with ammonia chloride.  

You should also keep extra ammonia chloride on hand, and give your boys that in addition to what is in the feed or minerals, once every couple of months, if you  decide they don't need any grain, then I would provide them ammonia chloride on a daily basis, in their water or in their minerals. 

Here is a link outlining the prevention level compared to a treatment level. In a nut shell it states for prevention you buck should receive 1 teaspoon of ammonia chloride a day per 150 lbs of his body weight. Ofcourse, you don't really know how much is in the grain, so what I do is once every couple of months, add an extra teaspoon a day for 5 days to their feed per goat, but my goats weigh well over 100lbs. 


http://fiascofarm.com/goats/stones.htm


As a final comment, there are lots and lots of male goats out there on just hay and pasture, not getting any ammonia chloride and no grain, doing just fine.


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## EggsForIHOP (Feb 9, 2012)

X2 on what 20kidsonhill said!

And this:  an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure....that's the saying....

I'm not perfect, sometimes I miss the obvious, or don't get on things when I should, but with EASY PEASY stuff like this I prefer to stick to the ounce of prevention thing...so with our little buck (and his new buck sidekick) I try each day to sprinkle a shake on their food....have I missed it here and there - YES...do I try to remember to do it...YES....just makes me feel better. Do I stress it when I miss it...NO...I just try to incorporate it into life the best I can 

Since one is a Nigerian Dwarf and the other a 2 month old nubian...their just get a "shake" out of an old powdered sugar shaker each day on top of their food - I may up it as the nubian gets bigger...I also mix up our own feed, so I know there is NO AC in it already...if I was feeding something that had it I probably would stick to a monthly on it instead of daily...

This is the routine a good friend used for years problem free, and I now stick to it.  May not do a whole lot of good, but like I said, it always worked for her, so I'm trying to follow what she taught me. It just makes sense with this one thing to work on preventing instead of treating - so that's what I try to do


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## redtailgal (Feb 9, 2012)

MY wethers will not eat their grain if I sprinkle AC on it.  They'd just as soon starve.

I followed Rolls Farms advice and just slosh a little in their water buckets each time I refill.


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## EggsForIHOP (Feb 9, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> MY wethers will not eat their grain if I sprinkle AC on it.  They'd just as soon starve.
> 
> I followed Rolls Farms advice and just slosh a little in their water buckets each time I refill.


Wanta trade your wethers for a blue eyed dwarf?  My little terrible tiny goat eats anything that MOVES!  He's like a vulture in a goat suit!  And his new sidekick does the same otherwise there's nothing left!

How bout we trade?   You take the bottomless pit for a week and I can experience some normal goats?  PLEASE!!!!  He'll eat anything you want him to..and quite a bit he should NOT eat as well!  Gotta watch him...he's tiny and fast!  

On second thought...is there such a thing as a "normal goat"?  Probably not....guess a trade wouldn't do much good huh?


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## that's*satyrical (Feb 9, 2012)

If you want to encourage some quick drinking for your buck/wether use vitamins & electrolyte plus from agrilabs. Jeffers sells it for $2 a pack & the pack goes a lonnngggg way. The goats LOVE it & it has electrolytes, vitamin A,E,D, riboflavin (Bvit), pantothenic acid, folic acid, B12, vitamin K & a few other B vitamins PLUS it has urine acidifiers & probiotics in it. LOVE this stuff!! Put it in my goats & chickens water about every 3rd time I change their water. The chickens love it too. That is all. The only thing bad about it is you really should change it out after 2 days.


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## redtailgal (Feb 9, 2012)

EggsForIHOP said:
			
		

> redtailgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Um, yeah, Socrates is not normal, even for a goat.  He is a STRANGE boy.  (wacko, really).

He will not eat ANYTHING but his grain and his hay. NO raisins, no clover, no alfalfa, no apples, no carrots, NOTHING.  He's damanding, and will carry his purple hairbrush to me when he wants to be brushed.  He wastes hay like you wouldn't believe, cuz he only want the parts that have seed heads on them.  He loves to step on my toes. And, recently, he has learned the abundant joys of peeing on my leg.

You'd have to fight me for him.


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## that's*satyrical (Feb 9, 2012)

They would have to fight him as well since he has clearly marked your leg & labeled you as his. lol


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## EggsForIHOP (Feb 9, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> You'd have to fight me for him.


I know - I wouldn't give up my Edan for anything really - though I do wish he would be a little pickier about what he eats...I often let him tag along as I do "chores" and I even caught him eating feathers one time I had plucked off of a freezer load full of broiler chickens the day before!  Just a taste test...spit most of it out...he's a love with a bottom-less gut and an ever curious set of taste buds that's for sure! The only goat that would TRY a tin can just see what he's missing...that's my Edan!  But a smooth suave love of a goat for all his bucky stink at times...he'd rather rub on me than pee on me and for THAT I am thankful!


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## Pearce Pastures (Feb 9, 2012)

You all crack me up!!!!

Okay,

So I am thinking I will feed
-Free choice hay/alfalfa mix (the one I already have)
-Either Noble or Dumor goat feed (has ammonium chloride in it)
-Water with ACV in it
-Sprinkle their goat feed with powdered ammonium chloride daily (just a little bit it sounds like though-like a 1/4 tsp or am I reading that wrong?  We have two nigerian bucks).

See anything I need to correct?

Thank you all so much for the advice!


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## that's*satyrical (Feb 9, 2012)

Looks good just don't forget the minerals


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