# silarajc's "Starting a Farm" Journal



## silarajc (May 12, 2017)

FIL died last June, so MIL moved in.  We needed a bigger house, and had wanted to move to the country for a time, so we did both and myself, hubby, two daughters (10 & 12), and dog, moved to 30 acres in November 2016.  We added a cat (cat-napped a stray from the old neighborhood) in December, and 25 chicks in March, another 8 chicks in April (chicken math at work already).  Neither one of us were raised on farms, so this is like a huge experiment!

Building the coop has been a hassle.  Hubby had taken off several days while I was on Spring Break (I work in the schools), and I really thought we could get the majority of it built then, but...the ground was so rocky we had to change plans for the foundation and it took us a while to just get the foundation completed.  Add to that having to finish moving and repair the old house, multiple rainstorms, after school activities, etc.  SO...we close on the old house Monday, and will get that off the plate.  THEN we can finally get the coop done!  About time too, the chicks are 8 weeks old and still in the garage!

Plans for the future:  finish the hay bale garden (yes, it is horribly late, but maybe can get some things planted since my summer break starts in a couple of weeks), and possibly add some goats & sheep in a year.


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## silarajc (May 12, 2017)

Oh, and bees!  Hubby really wanted bees this spring, but we are just too busy with the move and building the coop.


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## norseofcourse (May 12, 2017)

Welcome to farm life     Always too much to do and not enough time to do it.  I remember one year I harvested my *first* tomato in September...  (or was it October...)


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## CntryBoy777 (May 12, 2017)

Since there is a good bit of rock all over the state of Missouri, ya might want to consider raised beds for your garden eventually. Also, for your chicken yard, ya can use wood to frame some fence with, to lessen the amount of post holes that have to be dug in that rocky ground. Just be sure to have 4"x4" or bigger on the bottom and just staple fence directly to the wood. Before ya get goats, have pen and fence up and ready for them.
Welcome to the "Journal" life....and Welcome to BYH!!...
Oh, and check your state laws on bees before ya get set-up for them, it may save ya some $$ in the long run.


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## Latestarter (May 12, 2017)

Following along since I can identify with most of what you're dealing with... too much to do and not enough time or manpower.  Congrats on choosing the country/farm life. It does have rewards


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## silarajc (May 15, 2017)

Whew!  Today is closing on the old house.  So glad to get that off my plate!    Gonna work on the coop tonight and tomorrow night, then will have to throw a tarp over it for the rains predicted for the rest of the week.  Having flake board for the flooring is the major problem for us finishing the coop, because it will take a few days to get the roof and walls on..  With both of us working full-time and the longer commute, then the rain every week, it has been hard!

@norseofcourse @CntryBoy777 & @Latestarter - thanks for your kind replies!  We are so enjoying not living shoulder to shoulder with the neighbors!


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## CntryBoy777 (May 15, 2017)

Ya can get a cheap blue tarp from WallyWorld to cover the floor between times, until the walls go up and roof, so it is protected. Glad ya are getting some loose ends tied up, it will help ya to focus forward....


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## Latestarter (May 15, 2017)

Congrats on eliminating the old house from the list of things to waste time on. Now, if you could just get the right combination of lottery numbers, you could farm in style!  It sure is nice to look out the window and see nature rather than the neighbor's ugly wallpaper...  justsayin


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

Well, the AC wasn't working when the temperatures got up, so no one felt like going into the direct sunlight with no relief when we were done.  We are spoiled for that AC!  It is out in hubby's car, too, so he's driving almost an hour and a half to get home in the afternoon in a hot car.


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## CntryBoy777 (May 16, 2017)

Back before AC even existed, the heat made it very enjoyable to being squirted with the hose in the front yard....and the spot closest to the fan was always the "Primo" seat....as long as ya didn't sing in the fan too much, cause it would get on Mom and Dad's nerves after a while....


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

I grew up in West Texas - spent summers outside all day in 100+ weather and had the time of my life.  Shade trees and a breeze made a huge difference. And when the water hose came out it was the best!  But the humidity here makes it hard to breathe, and shade only makes a little difference.  Spoiled, I am.


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## Latestarter (May 16, 2017)

Oh yeah... humidity is the killer! 100 and dry is quite palatable while 90 and 90% humidity is utterly miserable.


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

And we are in record highs for this time of year.  Praying it doesn't hold true all summer!!


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

Picture of the girls trying to make pets of the neighbor's young steers.


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## CntryBoy777 (May 16, 2017)

If ya live over in the "Boothill", then ya aren't very far north of me...and that "Pipeline" known as the Mississippi funnels that humidity straight from the Gulf. Not to mention the moisture that fell the past 2wks being on top of the ground with the sun shining on it just adds that much more to it. I hate seeing it so early, cause it just means another scorcher like last yr....just Longer.
Glad the girls like animals....ya can keep them busy anyway.


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

Yep!    And more rain this week.  Not that I mind the rain, the ground needs it, but !


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

@lakestarter - how much work are the goats?  We were thinking of getting a couple goats and a couple hair sheep to help trim back the wild areas and maybe eventually use for meat.  I'm a little worried about semi-permanent fencing for them.


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## CntryBoy777 (May 16, 2017)

What is worrying ya about fence for goats and sheep? I happen to be working on some right now. In fact, was going to comment back to ya that the moisture helps in driving those Tposts in this clay we have here.


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

So, to have them be our weed whackers, we will need to contain them in the brush.  Fence line between our property and the neighbor is just 5 strand barbed wire in most places, with plenty of wild woods.  So we will have to add to or redo this fencing (need to check who owns the fence), and do so in the overgrown areas we want them to thin out.  Easiest way seems to be to put them on a line, but that also seems to be the easiest way to have them get themselves in trouble (I've heard goats are really good at that).  I'd say that 60% of our property is pasture rented to a neighbor for grazing his cattle, 10% is the house and outbuildings, and 30% is this overgrown woods that needs to be cleaned up.

Putting a fence in the wild areas also means we have to clear enough to not only string the fencing, but to make sure they don't have a way to climb out of it from fallen logs, branches, etc.

And we will have to acquire a taste for mutton...  Didn't realize that the unique flavor of gyros came mainly from mutton!


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## CntryBoy777 (May 16, 2017)

That does present some consideration and opportunity of some physical labor. If you are going to start out with a just a few goats, then what I think that I would do is to get some cattle panels to start with and section off a portion of it with the panels and Tposts....unless there are some 5" trees or bigger to support the panel. Allow the goats to work on an area and when they have thinned it out, move the panels to a new area and rest the panels for a new area. Once ya have it fairly thinned, then take steps to put up permanent fence. There is one other thing to consider, too....and that would be predators and the pressure that they may present. I would keep the panels at least a couple of feet from that barbed wire. Others may have other ideas, but just from what ya described, that would be my way of thinking anyway...


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

If they have ample opportunity to graze, do they try to get out much?  The stiff panels probably would be the easiest; we could push them through the brush and it would simplify moving the area.  Just worried they will act like toddlers and always want what's on the other side!


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

And so far, predators would be possible coyotes and maybe dogs are the only things I think we have around that are big enough to take on a goat.  I've heard the coyotes, but never seen them.  My dog we keep close by and she responds fairly well, neighbor's dogs don't come over (although adding chickens might bring some by in time).

And I would plan to take the goats into a safer structure at night.  Just wouldn't be able to relax leaving them out in the woods!


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## CntryBoy777 (May 16, 2017)

Well, it is in a goats nature, but given ample room we haven't had any issues with ours, but they are fence pushers...they will test every inch below about 3' scratching their sides, just make sure the horizontal wires are on the animal side. They will also exploit any gap or hole below the fenceline. The panels are certainly not adjustableable to lay of the land....and they Love to climb.


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## Latestarter (May 16, 2017)

Goats are notorious for getting themselves into trouble. As many have stated, they're like a 3 year old and have to investigate everything, including things that shouldn't be. But they really are cool animals, and the milk is delish. I've heard the meat is as well, but I haven't processed any of mine yet. I also have a dairy breed (goat), so not as much meat as a meat breed or cross. The way you explained your situation, I'd consider an electric net fence. It comes in like 160 foot lengths and you can attach 2 together to expand the area contained if you wanted. If you start them out inside it in an open area so they can get zapped a few times and learn the fence is the boundary, you can then put that fencing back in your woods and they can clear the area piece by piece. You simply pull the step in stakes and move the fence to the next section to be worked on as they finish up where they are.

I look to expand into hair sheep (no wool to shear) which are primarily meat sheep here either later this year or early next year. I love lamb  and I've been to Greece and eaten real souflaki (or souvlaki) where the mutton stands on a rotating vertical skewer in front of a flame to cook it. The vendor just slices off chunks of the cooked meat into a flour shell (gyro) and OMG is it good!





I need to get a few steers for my front pasture as well.


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## silarajc (May 16, 2017)

Hmm.  Seems like it is best to wait to put them to work until I am on summer break and can check on them frequently.  Wouldn't get any until next spring at the earliest anyway.  I wonder how far one would wander if it got out??  Probably just until it found my garden...


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## Latestarter (May 16, 2017)

There are stories of escapees (goats) in the threads here where they've been found miles away! They browse and a noise scares them and they bolt, then bolt again, and before you know it, they're gone. You can tie them but in a wooded environment, you'd probably come back to find them dead from strangulation, or gone from breaking the collar/lead. They'll wrap them selves around everything they can get to. I'm sure by next year you'll have much more info/knowledge and be better prepared


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## silarajc (May 17, 2017)

And here's why you should have the coop built before the chicks arrive (I tried to have it done, I really did!)



Now that temperatures are warmer, wondering if putting them in a temporary pen with a roof might be better.  We can build it larger outside!


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## CntryBoy777 (May 17, 2017)

We got ours the first wk in June last yr, there are 11 of them and 12 ducks....they were in their outside pen at 3wks old, did well without any source of heat. It was just too much for inside. We kept hay on the ground to help keep them off the ground and to snuggle in, but the chicks preferred the small roost pole I put in there and huddled together on the roost that was about 6-8" off the ground. The area they were in was 6x8'. The ducks just huddled in the hay, but there weren't any problems with either of them...they were kept separated.


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## silarajc (May 17, 2017)

Thinking the wire fencing and a tarp over the top.  At least then they will have a bit more room while we finish the coop.  A couple of roost poles would be easy enough to place, too.  Might get that done tonight, if there's a break in the rain.  I don't think I need to predator proof it a whole lot right now - haven't seen anything but hawks/eagles on our property.  I know they will come once they find the chickens there, though.  It is a fine line between something quick and temporary and protection right now.  Don't want to spend too much time on the temporary that I could spend on the coop.  And the temperatures will just get hotter the more we put it off.  Maybe we should go ahead and put up the electric fencing - something we could do in bursts of evening time.

On a positive note, one of the littles from my Easter bunch found her way in with the big girls this morning and wasn't having any problems with them.  I've got them side by side separated by the fencing.  I figure I can put them all in the same pen if I just give the littles a place to hide from the bigs.


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## CntryBoy777 (May 17, 2017)

Well, don't forget about coons and possums, and some barriers for weather will keep the blowing rain out and off the ground. If ya have some scrap wood then just make a "Chicken Tractor" styled structure. If kept fairly close to the house it will deter most predators, but not all.


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## silarajc (May 18, 2017)

We moved them to the "carriage house" last night, about a 10X20 building, that was originally used as a greenhouse, then transitioned to a horse shelter.  Has a half wall of cinderblock on 3 sides, then steel for the remainder of the wall and the roof, and open at one end.  Gravel flooring.  Even has a small window at the end.  We nailed up some welded wire fencing to close it entirely off, with a 2X4 screwed in to divide it vertically so we can open the wire partway for a door.  Even has a cement threshold, so deters digging critters.  I gave it some good pushes and I think we got it fairly tight.  

Unfortunately, all that work meant we put them in around dusk, so they were put in a new place at night when they couldn't see.  They were piling in the corners.  When we checked on them and saw that we put the chick feeders in the corners to try to limit that, and turned a bin on its side against the wall and put the littles in that, so they could hide from the bigs when they needed to (they were the ones getting squished in the corners).  This morning they were all up and seemed happy.  Love my chickens but they sure are silly!  

Going to have to remember to bring a lantern when we visit in the evenings so I can see what I'm doing and don't step on anyone.  We have been feeding and watering at bedtime enough to last through the next day.  Daylight's getting longer, and my summer break starts next week, so most days probably won't need it.

Any tricks anyone has for transporting water about 300 feet??  We have a utility wagon and filled a 5 gallon bucket.  I want to make a 5 gallon nipple waterer with the bucket - probably should make two so I can switch them out and will make less traveling.  Put the feed in a metal trash can inside the temporary coop, so that part at least is easy.


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## CntryBoy777 (May 18, 2017)

PVC is really cheap for a 10' stick, and ya can get a female end that will match up with a hose....use the primer and blue glue to put them together, with the connectors, and a spigot on the other end. Ya can run it across the top of the ground until ya have time to bury it about a foot deep. It will easily be moved to mow or relocate and will be much cheaper than 3 100' pieces of hose. I would use schedule 40 PVC because it is just a little more cost, but lasts much longer than the thinner stuff. When winter comes, it will only freeze if water is left under pressure in it, so it can be used even during freezing temps, as long as the pressure is released after each use. There won't be any need to haul water, just connect and turn the spigot on.


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## silarajc (May 18, 2017)

We were debating that thicker PVC or hose intended for burying to go to the permanent coop.  Only problem is both buildings are across the drive, so we will need to rent a trencher and create a tunnel in either case.  Might as well run electric at the same time!


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## CntryBoy777 (May 18, 2017)

If you are crossing a drive then ya sure want to use schedule 40 or ya will be replacing it regularly. If ya are delayed at renting the trencher, then just lay the pipe on the long side of the drive and use hose to reach it there. That way it is an easy disconnect and when ya trench ya already have most of the pipe already put together.


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## silarajc (Jun 16, 2017)

Sorry, this is a bit long and graphic. I went to let the chickens out this morning and found an owl in the coop. He was big! Inch long talons and a wingspan of probably more than three feet. Big yellow eyes. After I finally shooed him out, I looked for carnage. The chickens were all huddled behind the feeder stand and the feed bin. First thing I saw was a wing in the corner the owl came from. Then I looked around and finally saw the victim - she was dead by the trashcan. But I saw a lot of white feathers, and she was a red and white bird. So after I saw that, I scattered the birds some. Sure enough. Mr. Fluffy Pants, the White Wyandotte rooster, was holding a wing low. I picked him up, after a struggle with him, saw that the entire breast on that side had been ravaged. Still not sure if the skin was torn off, or some muscle too, but there was no skin at all. There was a slice where an air-filled bubble was coming through. I took him home to doctor up, since he was still alert and moving otherwise normally, but as I looked at the extent of the injury and at the topical wound spray I had, I knew I couldn't successfully treat him. I didn't even know how to cover such a large open wound. So I let the girls say goodbye and took him out to put down. It took me 4 horrific tries before I finally put him on the ground and put my foot on his head and pulled his head off. First time I've killed something that wasn't a bug. I'm a little upset right now. He wasn't quite a pet, but it was hard to lose him, and in that way. At least now I know what works for the next time. We are guessing the owl landed on the wire we nailed around the open side of the building and pushed in, making a gap, but couldn't get back out.


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## Mike CHS (Jun 16, 2017)

That is never a pleasant thing to have to do.


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## silarajc (Jun 16, 2017)

thank you.  knowing I CAN do it is sorta a relief.  and there is always the doubt that it was the right thing to do.


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## Hillaire (Jun 17, 2017)

ugh never fun... sorry you had to go through that... I have always found the easiest is a quick hatchet blow.  Again never ever easy and it won't be but alas it's part of what we signed up for I guess


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## Baymule (Jun 17, 2017)

I just read your journal. Many of us here are doing or have done exactly what you are, so you have come to the right place if you have questions and need help. Really sorry about the hen you lost to the owl and you having to put down your rooster. It is hard to deal with loss but it is harder when you have to do it yourself. I butcher chickens, but  having chickens killed by predators is tough. I built a hoop coop and in my haste, I left an opening at the top. An owl found it and got 6 of my 12 pullets.  I felt terrible about it. I had a lot hit me all at once and I neglected to properly finish it up. Here is a link to how I built my hoop coop. You can also add a hoop run to your present coop, then it gives your chickens more room on those days you don't let them out to free range. Just cover the hoops with hardware cloth to make it predator proof.

https://www.theeasygarden.com/threads/hoop-coop.18291/

And fencing!!! We bought a place with 8 acres and there was no fence, barn, animal anything, so we had a lot to do. I will steer you away from welded wire as it is easily broken. You think welded means strong, but believe me, it is weak crap. A dog can easily bite through it. I think it falls apart all by itself.  We used 2"x4" woven non climb horse wire, because I wanted wire that even our chickens couldn't go through. Another good wire is sheep and goat wire, it is also a woven wire. Some people say that goats can get their head through the goat wire and get their horns stuck, but not having goats, I cannot vouch either for or against the goat wire. There is also a field fence, we fenced 16 acres we used to own, with it-I would never use it again!

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/non-climb-horse-fence-48-in-x-200-ft

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/goat-fence-48-in-x-330-ft

Here is my fencing thread. It is a good discussion of what we did right and what we did wrong. I think this might help you. There are things we could have done better or different, but at the end of the day, we have a fairly good fence that holds in our sheep, horses, chickens and dogs, and we are happy with it.

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/non-climb-2-x4-horse-wire-fence.32922/

This is your farm. You have to weigh up what will work or not work for you. All of us make mistakes and all of us do the most brilliant things-hopefully more brilliant than dumb boo-boos. We are here for you to help, advise or just listen when you've had a bad day. We will celebrate with you or commiserate your loss. There isn't a better forum on the net than BYH!


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## silarajc (Jun 17, 2017)

@Baymule - thanks for all the links!  I too had planned to have a nice, secure coop built before the chicks even arrived, but also had a lot of things come at me and keep it being pushed to the back burner.  I added some nails and stakes to fortify the wire wall, but I am seeing what you mean about the welded wire.  It is starting to break apart where it is nailed.

We have the foundation for the coop, at least.  Just need to get the floor, roof, and walls in, and that really shouldn't be that hard.  Just finding a few days in a row to do it... 

@Hillaire - I knew it would be something to be done eventually.  I wanted free range chickens, knew I would lose some, but it sure would have been easier if the rooster was already dead.  But something about living in the country and maintaining livestock really brings out strengths I didn't know I had.  And I love it.


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## CntryBoy777 (Jun 17, 2017)

Those Great-Horned owl can be pretty bothersome, and will attack during daylight hours also. We have a couple of nesting pairs not too far from us, so I have to be vigilant. Ya did the rooster a favor....and he did his job by protecting his hens and others....he died with Honor. As the overseer, there are many qualifications that fit under that "Cap"....and that is just one of them. That was a big "Test" of whether ya could make the "Hard Choice", and ya sure "Passed the Test"....


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## Baymule (Jun 18, 2017)

You might want to make your coop floor into a tool shed or something else useful. Most of us put the coop on the dirt and skirt around it with strong wire to prevent digging in by predators and snakes. With a dirt floor, the chickens can scratch, you can toss in leaves, grass clippings, garden stuff like corn shucks, cobs, pea hulls, kitchen trimmings......what they don't eat, they scratch to bits and poop on. In a few months you have dark crumbly compost--garden gold. It's called the deep litter method. And you don't have to keep cleaning the floor. To me, that is a PITA job, especially when I already have so much to do. Really? Clean the coop floor? I need to use that time to clean my own danged floor, thank you very much!


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## silarajc (Jun 22, 2017)

Well, I just dispatched two mice that got stuck on glue traps in my basement, with pruning shears.  My daughter says I'm becoming the master of killing things.

I was going to try the deep litter method with the new coop, but mostly hoping they would be outside most of the time. I know it doesn't work as well without a dirt floor, but it did pretty well in the brooder area when they were young.   I have a compost pile started not far from the site that they can scratch around in.  I've got the new coop set 12-24 inches above the ground, hoping the chickens could use it for shelter.  It is a pretty open area, and we are going to have to wait for trees/bushes to grow.  I've planted several blackberry seedlings in the area.

Right now, they are in a three-sided garage that is half underground.  The cinderblock halfwall seeps when the ground is wet.  And it is floored in gravel, the kind used for roads, not rounded pea gravel. Not the best environment for the chickadoodles.

However, I added some stakes and more nails to the wire wall to fortify it against predators pushing in, and strung some string across the front "yard" and tied some mylar tape around.  Hopefully that will deter winged predators enough that my chickadoodles can escape.
 
Hoping we can work more on the coop this weekend.  Evidently, despite using levels and squares, our coop foundation is not square, so it is going to be more work than we had envisioned.


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## Baymule (Jun 22, 2017)

I never build anything square. My lumber is used or comes off the reject rack at Lowes. My lumber is bent, curved, crooked, looks bad, nobody else wants it, and I build all sorts of stuff with it. Square???? I've heard of that......not sure what that means.....  One thing I have learned. You can build it perfect or you can just build it. Either way, you will use it and it will work for you. chickens don't care........


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## silarajc (Jun 22, 2017)

@Baymule - I agree, square is really hard with bent lumber.  This is our first large project, unless you count a play tower, and I think we have a combination of ignorance and perfectionism at work here!


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## Baymule (Jun 23, 2017)

My name is Baymule and I am an ignorant builder.  I don't know how to cut angles, sometimes I hold the board up and draw a line on it. I just jump in and do it. It doesn't matter if I know how-I do it anyway-and somehow it all comes out ok.


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## silarajc (Jun 23, 2017)

LOL - I needed lincoln logs when I was little, or something.  I keep trying to talk my husband and myself into "good enough".


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