# Need some buck service advice from those who have offer it



## Pearce Pastures (Aug 2, 2012)

After the fair, I have had several people asking me about buck service, something I really wasn't so keen on at this point.  Found out my DH (and the D almost stood for dead) had been telling people we would do that.  After giving him an earful and explaining disease transmission (he didn't know what CL or CAE were at all), we talked about if we were to offer it, how would we go about it.  So I did some researching and then came up with a policy/contract that I am begging someone to review for things I did not think about or even just flat out mistakes I made.  Pretty please?  It is on my webpage under the BUCK SERVICE tab or if it would be easier, I could just copy and paste it here...maybe I will do that.  Hang on, be right back.


Okay here it is...prettier and with the ability to download as a word doc or pdf on the site.


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 2, 2012)

PEARCE PASTURES
Nigerian Dwarf Buck Service Policy and Contract
Please read through our policy and contract carefully.  If you have any questions, feel free to contact us.

FEES PER DOE.
$50 with no memo 
$75-100 with AGS, NDGA, or NMGA breeding memo (eligibility is subject to our discretion)

1. We offer pen breeding (basically drive-way breeding but with a little privacy).  We do not board other people's does or lease our bucks out.  Does to be bred need to be brought to the buck when in heat and will be placed into a pen with him for three covers.  A doe who is not in heat will not stand for breeding and the breeding would not be successful so it is the responsibility of the doe's owner to make sure the doe is in heat and ready for breeding.  This usually doesn't take more than an hour and then the doe can be taken home.

2.  Does to be bred must meet certain criteria.  

First and most importantly, they need to have been tested for CL and CAEV within the last twelve months and clean test papers must be provided for each doe to be bred.  We love our goats dearly and do not want to risk infection and death, however inconvenient it might be to have to test your animals.  More information on these diseases and on how to get your goats tested can be found below.

Second, does need to be washed and shaved down to make sure we are less likely to exchange things like lice, fleas, and mites and so that does can be more readily inspected for any health issues prior to breeding.  If a doe is found to have lumps or other signs of illness or infestation, breeding fees will be returned and the doe will not be serviced at that time.  This is for the health of our goats as well as yours.

Third, we would prefer that does not be horned as breeding can bring out aggression and our bucks do not have horns.  If your does do have horns, we ask that you find a way to cover them prior to bringing them for breeding (we have seen people use things like tennis balls and swimming noodles to achieve this).

Fourth, as blunt as it may seem, we will not breed an animal that looks to be in poor condition or is too young.  Breeding fees will be returned and the doe will not be covered at that time.  Pregnancy and lactation take a toll on a doe's body and taxes their immune system.  We cannot in good conscience place that burden onto a doe who may not be able to handle it well because she isn't in good shape or is too young.  We strongly recommend having a vet perform a fecal exam one month before kidding to check for parasite loads so the doe can be treated with the correct medications and be brought into good condition with quality feeding before breeding.  

Fifth, we reserve the right to decide not to offer breeding memos for servicing does who are grade or are not bred to the standards set forth by AGS and NDGA.  

3.  If your doe comes back into heat within a 60 day period after the first exposure (meaning the breeding did not take), you can bring her back and re-breed free of charge.  It is the responsibility of the doe's owner to record and report the presence of a heat cycle to us-we will not contact you to see if the breeding took.  The doe will have to meet all of the criteria stipulated in item number two of this policy in order for her to be re-bred and money will not be returned for the original breeding if the doe does not meet those criteria (we are not responsible for a doe that did not take and is now ill or poorly conditioned and not eligible for breeding).  This offer is not transferable to another doe.  If your doe comes back into heat and you do not notify us within the 60 days after the first exposure, or if you decide to not re-breed her,  no refunds will be given. 

4.  Should your doe not settle after re-breeding, breeding fees will be returned only if it is determined by a licensed veterinarian, at your expense, that the doe being serviced is not experiencing infertility.  Any of our bucks being offered for stud service have been proven prior to being listed as available.

5.  We cannot and do not guarantee that a pregnancy will result in a successful birth outcome, nor can we promise any size, color, gender, or show-worthiness of offspring.

6.  We ask that you print off any and all breeding memo paperwork from the AGS/NGDA/NMGA websites and bring them with you at the time of the breeding for us to fill out.

7.  We ask that you print off two copies of this policy/contract to be filled out at the time of the breeding, one for your records and one for ours.  A printer friendly version is available below.  

8.  We would greatly appreciate an email with pictures of the kids that result from the breeding as well as any show results or news that you want to share.  



What is CL and CAE?
Caseous Lymphadenitis of Sheep and Goats 

Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis (CAE) Virus 

How can I get my animals tested?
Testing can often be done through a vet, who will draw blood and have it sent to a lab, perhaps one of the labs listed below.  Learning how to draw blood and send in tests yourself can save you greatly.  Visit the pages below to learn more about testing and fees.

Washington State University:  Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory 
P.O. Box 647034, 
Pullman, WA 99164-7034. 
509-335-9696
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/fees.aspx

UC-Davis: California Veterinary Diagnostic Lab System 
West Health Sciences Drive 
University of California-Davis 
Davis, CA 95616. 
530-752-7577
http://www.cahfs.ucdavis.edu/

BioTracking 
1150 Alturas Drive Suite 105
Moscow, ID 83843
208-882-9736 
http://www.biotracking.com/biopryn.php




PEARCE PASTURES BUCK SERVICE CONTRACT
I __________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 
(PRINTED NAME OF DOE'S OWNER OR DESIGNATED CARETAKER HEREAFTER REFERRED TO AS THE PATRON) 
HAVE READ, UNDERSTAND, AND AGREE WITH ALL OF THE BUCK SERVICE POLICES SET FORTH BY 
PEARCE PASTURES/STEVE AND MELISSA PEARCE (HEREAFTER REFERRED TO AS THE SERVICE PROVIDER).  

PATRON'S SIGNATURE______________________________________________________________________________________

DATE SIGNED______________________________________________________________________________________________

SERVICE PROVIDER SIGNATURE_____________________________________________________________________________

NAME OF DOE TO BE BRED UNDER THIS CONTRACT__________________________________________________________

SERVICE DATE _____________________________________________________________________________________________

PATRON 'S SIGNATURE ACKNOWLEDGING SERVICE OCCURRED _______________________________________________


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## ksalvagno (Aug 2, 2012)

Looks good to me. You may just want to put in a reminder that they are responsible to write down the date of the breeding and that you aren't responsible for keeping track of that as well as the heat dates already mentioned.


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## Stacykins (Aug 2, 2012)

> Fourth, as blunt as it may seem, we will not breed an animal that looks to be in poor condition or is too young.  Breeding fees will be returned and the doe will not be covered at that time.  Pregnancy and lactation take a toll on a doe's body and taxes their immune system.  We cannot in good conscience place that burden onto a doe who may not be able to handle it well because she isn't in good shape or is too young.  We strongly recommend having a vet perform a fecal exam one month before *kidding* to check for parasite loads so the doe can be treated with the correct medications and be brought into good condition with quality feeding before breeding.


Did you mean to have the word "breeding" in that place? Because this contract is all about the breeding, so it doesn't make much sense.


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 2, 2012)

Thank you both.  Yeah, meant breeding   Good catch!


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 2, 2012)

I don't know that I would want to even include #4 at all....it is almost like a guarantee of pregnancy....they can abort and the owner may not know that they were in fact pregnant......or you might have a goofball that brings you a doe in good shape, but doesn't provide properly for her to carry to term a healthy pregnancy......or subjects her to a bully goat that might ram her.......all kinds of ways a pregnancy might not be viable that you may not ever know, and I haven't seen anyone else offer this sort of "guarantee" on  a breeding....just the first offer to rebred if the first didn't take.



> 4.  Should your doe not settle after re-breeding, breeding fees will be returned only if it is determined by a licensed veterinarian, at your expense, that the doe being serviced is not experiencing infertility.  Any of our bucks being offered for stud service have been proven prior to being listed as available.


Of course if you have a customer come in that seems to do everything right....maybe offer a 3rd try for half price....but only that once......or maybe offer a half price deal on a different doe if the first is really just not taking....or offer a breeding to a different buck on the third or fourth try?????


I wouldn't print these last suggestions, but keep them in mind and use a case by case assessment to see if you want to offer them.....


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## bonbean01 (Aug 2, 2012)

Okay...someone has to be the devil's advocate, so I that will be me...with your breeding fee, would that cover vet bills and treatment should your herd get infected by a diseased animal that spreads through the whole bunch?  You could be getting an animal seemingly healthy that infects all your now healthy animals.

Just something to think about...hope it all works out for you, but I don't think I'd take the chance...again...just my 2 cents worth that doesn't buy squat these days


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 2, 2012)

ragdollcatlady said:
			
		

> I don't know that I would want to even include #4 at all....it is almost like a guarantee of pregnancy....they can abort and the owner may not know that they were in fact pregnant......or you might have a goofball that brings you a doe in good shape, but doesn't provide properly for her to carry to term a healthy pregnancy......or subjects her to a bully goat that might ram her.......all kinds of ways a pregnancy might not be viable that you may not ever know, and I haven't seen anyone else offer this sort of "guarantee" on  a breeding....just the first offer to rebred if the first didn't take.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think I will reword that and may just take it out altogether.  THANKS!


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 2, 2012)

bonbean01 said:
			
		

> Okay...someone has to be the devil's advocate, so I that will be me...with your breeding fee, would that cover vet bills and treatment should your herd get infected by a diseased animal that spreads through the whole bunch?  You could be getting an animal seemingly healthy that infects all your now healthy animals.
> 
> Just something to think about...hope it all works out for you, but I don't think I'd take the chance...again...just my 2 cents worth that doesn't buy squat these days


I really appreciate it actually.  I am still not sure I want to do this actually (would not have come up if I would have educated my dh on it before he went on about it to some people).  I am thinking even if we offer, we might not have many takers once they see how much is expected of them before we would provide service.

Do you think the prices are too low?  Our bucks are AGS/NDGA/NMGA registered and pretty solid I think.


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## ragdollcatlady (Aug 3, 2012)

On the same thought I had before....I wouldn't really consider refunding money for any service that is/has been actually provided. As long as your buck produces even one kid to some other doe at a later date...therefore proving that he was/is still fertile. 

Of course, case by case is probably the only way to decide ultimately, but wording to the effect that once it's been done, no money is returned would provide the best protection for you.


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 3, 2012)

*THANK YOU ALL FOR THE INPUT!  Here is a revised copy of the policy, in case there are any other things you see.*

FEES PER DOE.
$50 with no memo
$75-100 with AGS, NDGA, or NMGA breeding memo (eligibility is subject to our discretion)

1. We offer pen breeding (basically drive-way breeding but with a little privacy).  We do not board other people's does or lease our bucks out.  Bucks offered for service are only available after they have proven themselves.  Does to be bred need to be brought to the buck when in heat and will be placed into a pen with him for three covers.  A doe who is not in heat will not stand for breeding and the breeding would not be successful so it is the responsibility of the doe's owner to make sure the doe is in heat and ready for breeding.  This usually doesn't take more than an hour and then the doe can be taken home.

2.  Does to be bred must meet certain criteria. 

First and most importantly, they need to have been tested for CL and CAEV within the last twelve months and clean test papers must be provided for each doe to be bred.  We love our goats dearly and do not want to risk infection and death, however inconvenient it might be to have to test your animals.  More information on these diseases and on how to get your goats tested can be found below.

Second, does need to be washed and shaved down to make sure we are less likely to exchange things like lice, fleas, and mites and so that does can be more readily inspected for any health issues prior to breeding.  If a doe is found to have lumps or other signs of illness or infestation, breeding fees will be returned and the doe will not be serviced at that time.  This is for the health of our goats as well as yours.

Third, we would prefer that does not be horned as breeding can bring out aggression and our bucks do not have horns.  If your does do have horns, we ask that you find a way to cover them prior to bringing them for breeding (we have seen people use things like tennis balls and swimming noodles to achieve this).

Fourth, as blunt as it may seem, we will not breed an animal that looks to be in poor condition or is too young.  Breeding fees will be returned and the doe will not be covered at that time.  Pregnancy and lactation take a toll on a doe's body and taxes their immune system.  We cannot in good conscience place that burden onto a doe who may not be able to handle it well because she isn't in good shape or is too young.  We strongly recommend having a vet perform a fecal exam one month before breeding to check for parasite loads so the doe can be treated with the correct medications and be brought into good condition with quality feeding before breeding. 

Fifth, we reserve the right to decide not to offer breeding memos for servicing does who are grade or are not bred to the standards set forth by AGS and NDGA. 

3.  If your doe comes back into heat within a 60 day period after the first exposure (meaning the breeding did not take), you can bring her back and a one time only re-breed free of charge.  It is the responsibility of the doe's owner to record and report the presence of a heat cycle to us-we will not contact you to see if the breeding took.  The doe will have to meet all of the criteria stipulated in item number two of this policy in order for her to be re-bred (we are not responsible for a doe that did not take and is now ill or poorly conditioned and not eligible for breeding).  This offer is not transferable to another doe.  If your doe comes back into heat and you do not notify us within the 60 days after the first exposure, this offer is no longer good.  Be sure to record the date that we exposed the doe to the buck, and then make a reminder for yourself to check for her next heat cycles.

4.  We do not offer refunds for any reason. 

5.  We cannot and do not guarantee that a pregnancy will result in a successful birth outcome, nor can we promise any size, color, gender, or show-worthiness of offspring.

6.  Print off any and all breeding memo paperwork from the AGS/NGDA/NMGA websites and bring them with you at the time of the breeding for us to fill out.

7.  Print off two copies of this policy/contract to be filled out at the time of the breeding, one for your records and one for ours.  Printer friendly versions are available at the bottom of this page. 

8.  We would greatly appreciate an email with pictures of the kids that result from the breeding as well as any show results or news that you want to share. 




What is CL and CAE?
Caseous Lymphadenitis of Sheep and Goats

Caprine Arthritis Encephalitis (CAE) Virus

How can I get my animals tested?
Testing can often be done through a vet, who will draw blood and have it sent to a lab, perhaps one of the labs listed below.  Learning how to draw blood and send in tests yourself can save you greatly.  Visit the pages below to learn more about testing and fees.

Washington State University:  Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory
P.O. Box 647034,
Pullman, WA 99164-7034.
509-335-9696
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/fees.aspx

UC-Davis: California Veterinary Diagnostic Lab System
West Health Sciences Drive
University of California-Davis
Davis, CA 95616.
530-752-7577
http://www.cahfs.ucdavis.edu/

BioTracking
1150 Alturas Drive Suite 105
Moscow, ID 83843
208-882-9736
http://www.biotracking.com/biopryn.php


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## bonbean01 (Aug 3, 2012)

Okay...since I'm the wet blanket here...a few other thoughts...when we had one of our ewes in with a friend's herd to try getting her bred since she didn't settle with our ram for whatever reason...our ram (no longer have that one since he got dangerous)...and we wanted to give her a try with another ram (which didn't result in a lamb either)...our friend said that she could come for free with the condition that if she just up and died he wouldn't be held liable and we agreed.

Should a doe up and die for whatever reason, will you be responsible to replace her?  I didn't see that in your contract, but might have missed that?

Second...yes...with your ram I would say you are not charging enough.

Okay...I'm done...LOLOLOL...wow...devil's advocate?  I believe I feel some horns growing through my hair... 

You are in a tough place with your DH saying it would be okay...kind of puts you on the spot.  Hope this works out for you with NO problems!!!!


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## ksalvagno (Aug 3, 2012)

Believe me, with the testing that you are requiring, not many will want to use your bucks. The ones who are willing to have the testing done, you probably wouldn't mind them using your buck anyway. I let friends use my bucks. We traded buck services and that worked out well. But we all tested our goats and everyone took very good care of their goats.


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## Pearce Pastures (Aug 3, 2012)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Believe me, with the testing that you are requiring, not many will want to use your bucks. The ones who are willing to have the testing done, you probably wouldn't mind them using your buck anyway. I let friends use my bucks. We traded buck services and that worked out well. But we all tested our goats and everyone took very good care of their goats.


That is kind of what I am hoping...if someone I know well who takes care of their animals or if they are willing to jump through all of these hoops, no biggie but I kind of want to steer inquiries to this page to weed out most who just want the breed their goats and are not concerned with their animals' health or mine.  Will probably be a deterrent for most which is fine by me.  

And another good idea from bonbean01.  Will add in something to the effect that we are not liable for any injury or death of a doe while they are on our property.


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