# Doe With Lice..or Mites!!



## FarmerBoy24 (Oct 1, 2012)

Hey,

So on Saturday I picked up a nice doe. She is Nubian/Lamancha and shes around 6-7 months old. When I went outside to collect the chicken eggs and what not, I noticed a few lice or mites on her! They look like the same ones that chickens have. I only saw a few until I sifted her fur and she has A LOT! I did not notice this when I picked her up. What can I do for her?!? I have some I believe its Diatemasioues earth, Its in a white bottle type thing and it says Poultry and Gardens.  will this hurt her skin. I feel bad for her!! Or is there any "home Remidies" I can do? Also she may be pregnant. Thanks


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## Chris (Oct 1, 2012)

If it is put out by prozap then the active ingredient is Permethrin. Dust her good with that and it should take care of your problem. 
You can also give her Ivomec Injectable for Cattle & Swine 1% Sterile Solution at the rate of 1 ml per 50 pounds and given orally.


Chris


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## Pearce Pastures (Oct 1, 2012)

Is it lice or mites?  I am going to guess they were lice if you could see them squirming around.  The dust should work, plus changing out bedding.  If it weren't getting cool, I'd say shave her to because the creepy crawlies hate that.  If it is mites, then you might want to give her a shot of Ivomec because the dust probably won't do a thing for those.


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## heatherlynnky (Oct 1, 2012)

I get the DE from the pet store or feed store in bulk bags. You can use this stuff everywhere. Literally. Not joking. We use it in the yard, in the dog runs, on the dogs, in the chicken coop, on the chickens, on the ducks, geese, cows and goats. Its sprinkled on bedding. I even put some in my feed to make sure I stay buggie free there too.  Its food grade.

If you happen to get bed bugs and don't mind the mess, it even works on that. My nephew dusted his truck cab with it. Let another trucker use his and it came back infested. The powder worked like a charm, it just took vacuuming afters.

I use it in the garden. Not a potato or squash bug in sight this year.  None of those huge ugly green caterpillar things on my tomatoes either. The stuff is great. The great thing is its safe enough to use often. So every 2 or 3 weeks I start powdering animals and bedding again. I hate bugs and this keeps us pretty free. If I could catch those dang wild turkeys that keep coming around I would powder them too.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Oct 1, 2012)

I had a doe that had two different kinds of mites. She looked a bit slow and kind of out of it. I ended up seeing that she had some nasty crusty stuff in her ears. After further inspection it was determined that she had mites on her body and that's what the crusty stuff in her ears was. She had Psoroptescuniculi mites and yeast dermatitis/otitis, bacterial/otitis mites in her ears. Luckily they are very easy to treat. We cleaned her ears out really well and got all the crusty stuff out of there. Because it had caused and infection in her ears she had to have two shots of oxytetracycline 72 hours apart, but that was just for the infection. In order to treat for the mites all we had to do was shave her down to make it easier to treat her, and I sprayed every inch of her with Permethrin spray. You may be able to treat it with the Ivermectin but as we all know with worming, why would you use a cannon to treat the worms when you can use something smaller that will treat w/e you need it to treat. We all talk about building resistance and not going overboard. Why would you use the Ivermectin when all you need to do is go the topical way and just spray with Permethrin. It is just as easy. The mites that were all over her body were common biting mites that are able to be seen, unlike the other mites, which were microscopic.


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## Pearce Pastures (Oct 1, 2012)

I do agree with SHK in that it is best to treat mildly first rather than going in with the big guns first.  What I meant is that mites, depending on the kind, do not respond to _insect dust_ or DE.  The spray, if you don't mind shaving her down to get a good coat of it on, would work on the kind of mite that can be seen with the naked eye.  We had mange-type mites on a buck and he needed a shot but those mites can't be seen crawling through fur.  But for lice, dust or spray would work.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks everyone! So I dusted here down with the dust on her back, legs, belly, sides everywhere! I'm going to see how things are in the morning. I am wanting to go more of a "natural way".... I read that you can put Apple Cider Vinegar on her and it will kill them. Do you think this may irritate her skin?


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Oct 1, 2012)

I have no idea about the ACV but I would try and take care of this quickly. The longer it takes the bigger the risk of others getting it. If she doesn't improve rather quickly I would go ahead and spray her down as I said or if you want to, worm her. I wouldn't dance around with all these things that may or may not work.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Oct 1, 2012)

Okay, so I went out and checked her with a flash light of course and I could see that they were dead. The majority of them. So i think tomorrow afternoon I'll wash her down with dog shampoo (if the shampoo wont hurt her!!??) to get the dead ones off then load her with some more dust and repeat the day after.


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## Chris (Oct 2, 2012)

How do you consider Ivomec a, "cannon" and then recommend a product like Pemethrin?
Pemethrin is considered a mild *Carcinogen, and Pemethrin is a restricted use pesticide do to it's toxicity to fish and aquatic plants. Yes it is a general use pesticide for residential and some industrial applications but is doesn't make is anymore safer or less potent than other products i.e. Ivomec.



			
				http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/Permtech.pdf said:
			
		

> Cats exposed dermally to some permethrin products may experience hyperexcitability, depression, ataxia, vomiting, anorexia, tremors, or convulsions. Symptoms can begin within a few minutes or up to three days after the exposure.  Some
> permethrin products contain high concentrations of the active ingredient and are labeled for use only on dogs. Close
> physical contact with a recently treated dog may also lead to symptoms in cats. If symptoms are severe and untreated, they
> may result in death.
> ...


*Carcinogen -
_A carcinogen is any substance, radionuclide, or radiation that is an agent directly involved in causing cancer._


Chris


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Oct 2, 2012)

Yes it is used for many things and treats or takes care of many things but in this case it is going onto a goat and all it should do is kill the mites. It's not going to hurt her nor is is going to hurt some little cat. It could be dangerous if one is using it recklessly but I didn't use it that way nor with the OP. You have to look at the context. Many things could be considered a 'cannon' but as I said, in this case it is only treating mites. If you use Ivermectin then you are not just getting rid of the mites but you are putting so many other things into her system that is unnecessary, ie. treating for many worms again when it is not needed. That will only cause the worms in his area to build a resistance to Ivermectin. Of course one time may not be that big a deal but still, why would you go overboard when you don't need to. I see so many people doing this now, if the goat has some little minor issue they just go crazy and treat with a million things when yeah, it may save the goat or help it out, but in the long run you are not just hurting that goat but all your goats and all the goats in your area. You are causing them to build a resistance to this stuff.  

The Ivermectin will work, but there are issues that go with it, in this case. The Pemethrin will work and there is no overdoing it and no risk to other animals as you were trying to say. It's not going got hurt others nor will it hurt her. It treats it without going overboard.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 2, 2012)

FarmerBoy24 said:
			
		

> Okay, so I went out and checked her with a flash light of course and I could see that they were dead. The majority of them. So i think tomorrow afternoon I'll wash her down with dog shampoo (if the shampoo wont hurt her!!??) to get the dead ones off then load her with some more dust and repeat the day after.


You need to repeat every 10 days or so, to break the cycle.


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## Chris (Oct 2, 2012)

If the OP wanted to use a "non chemical" remedy they could try clipping the goat down to a show clip then washing the goat with a good Pine Tar Shampoo. Old Timers will also recommend lubricating and washing your clipper blades with Kerosene which will kill the Lice/Mite that are on the blades. A alternative to the Kerosene would be Oster 5 in 1 which is 30 to 60% Ethanol.

Chris


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Oct 2, 2012)

I have treated several goats like this before and for other things too. None of them have EVER had ill affects and it has only helped them. I talked to several vets including mine that said that this a fine method and will not hurt the goat. That is several sources, not related or having anything to do with the situation, and they said it will take care of the issue and not hurt the goat.

Back to my original point. Ivermectin will work. I am not disputing that in any way. So will the Pemethrin spray. Neither will hurt the goat or other animals. Why I would recommend the spray over a wormer in this case (there is nothing else wrong with the goat other than the mites) is that you will end up just hurting the goat(s)in the long run by building a resistance. SafeGuard used to be a great wormer and it was used so much that now there is only a handful of places that is still effective. It was overused and now it doesn't work. Right now Ivermectin is the wormer of choice to everyone I know. It too will be used to everything under the sun and people will use it for issues such as this and in the end Ivermectin will no longer be effective either. It is fact.


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## 20kidsonhill (Oct 2, 2012)

heatherlynnky said:
			
		

> I get the DE from the pet store or feed store in bulk bags. You can use this stuff everywhere. Literally. Not joking. We use it in the yard, in the dog runs, on the dogs, in the chicken coop, on the chickens, on the ducks, geese, cows and goats. Its sprinkled on bedding. I even put some in my feed to make sure I stay buggie free there too.  Its food grade.
> 
> If you happen to get bed bugs and don't mind the mess, it even works on that. My nephew dusted his truck cab with it. Let another trucker use his and it came back infested. The powder worked like a charm, it just took vacuuming afters.
> 
> I use it in the garden. Not a potato or squash bug in sight this year.  None of those huge ugly green caterpillar things on my tomatoes either. The stuff is great. The great thing is its safe enough to use often. So every 2 or 3 weeks I start powdering animals and bedding again. I hate bugs and this keeps us pretty free. If I could catch those dang wild turkeys that keep coming around I would powder them too.


I would like for you to call me when you try to catch the wild turkeys and powder them with the DE.  

Are there different kinds of DE?  Say a feed grade compared to a gadeners grade, or is it all the same?


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## elevan (Oct 2, 2012)

*This thread is not about dogs or cats or any other species - it is about goats.  Please stick to the topic at hand and assist the OP with their problem.  Thank you.*




To the OP:  
Lice and mites can be treated similarly.  See here for more information:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-lice-and-goats

To 20kidsonhill:
DE comes in Food grade and Industrial grade.  You want to make sure that it is Food grade for livestock use.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 2, 2012)

Farmer boy- that sure got a bit heated  :/.  Getting back to your goal... First let me say I agree with you on wanting to do treatment in a more "natural" way! I support you in your efforts. I also use DE, and try not to use drugs,pesticides etc, you get the point.  Sometimes knowing other options can be helpful too, even though they may be a last resort option. There is a difference between pyrethrins and permethrins , one is natural coming from the chrysanthemum plant the other a synthetic, which you probably know   pyrethrins being safer in a "variety" of animals over the permethrins. Sometimes we end up with the choice of "the lesser of 2 evils". There are some situations where eradicating mites, etc(because of a severe infestation) needs to be immediate...so that exposure to entire flocks/herds etc doesn't happen and you end up with a HUGE problem. If there is a severe infestation and you "dust " the animal it does not kill instantly, it takes some time. What often happens is some of those mites will leave their host, now they are in your bedding etc only searching for a new host!  Depending on the individual situation it may be necessary  to irradicate swiftly then these mites going to 30-40 other goats. Personally I rather use the spray with very little residual effect than internal interference that might be overkill... 

 On good note depending on the type of parasite, quite often joy or dawn dish soap can be used to bathe the animal and once suds-up (heavily)  LEFT on the animal for *aprox.30 minutes* before rinsing will kill many parasites (not microscopic mites) by suffocation, NO CHEMICALS OR DRUGS  it is very effective because these little buggars will run to the eyes, down the ears, nose, even the anus to "get away" and when they come out of their hiding spot they are stuck in the suds and suffocate. Then treat with DE. Microscopic mites need greater intervention.

25 years ago I ended up with health issues from certain chemicals, so I understand your concern! Be assured that if you do end up needing to find another alternative using permethrin(synthetic) once isn't going to cause cancer. 

I would love to hear how it works out for you,or if you find out about other remedies that are helpful!


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## FarmerBoy24 (Oct 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the advice everyone!!

Okay, so I didn't have any Dawn soap available, however I do have "homemade laundry" soap All it contains is 4 bars of ZOTE, and a pinch of borax and water. (it works wonderfully, and it gets the "buck smell" out of your clothes!!) So I put this on her, all over her. I let it sit for around 10-15 mins, and washed it off. I saw A LOT of dead ones one top of her coat!! I think for the next 10 days i'll be rotating solutions! Powder, soap, powder soap!! Thanks for all the help EVERYONE!! I will let you guys know the results!!



			
				Southern by choice said:
			
		

> Farmer boy- that sure got a bit heated  :/.  Getting back to your goal... First let me say I agree with you on wanting to do treatment in a more "natural" way! I support you in your efforts. I also use DE, and try not to use drugs,pesticides etc, you get the point.  Sometimes knowing other options can be helpful too, even though they may be a last resort option. There is a difference between pyrethrins and permethrins , one is natural coming from the chrysanthemum plant the other a synthetic, which you probably know   pyrethrins being safer in a "variety" of animals over the permethrins. Sometimes we end up with the choice of "the lesser of 2 evils". There are some situations where eradicating mites, etc(because of a severe infestation) needs to be immediate...so that exposure to entire flocks/herds etc doesn't happen and you end up with a HUGE problem. If there is a severe infestation and you "dust " the animal it does not kill instantly, it takes some time. What often happens is some of those mites will leave their host, now they are in your bedding etc only searching for a new host!  Depending on the individual situation it may be necessary  to irradicate swiftly then these mites going to 30-40 other goats. Personally I rather use the spray with very little residual effect than internal interference that might be overkill...
> 
> On good note depending on the type of parasite, quite often joy or dawn dish soap can be used to bathe the animal and once suds-up (heavily)  LEFT on the animal for *aprox.30 minutes* before rinsing will kill many parasites (not microscopic mites) by suffocation, NO CHEMICALS OR DRUGS  it is very effective because these little buggars will run to the eyes, down the ears, nose, even the anus to "get away" and when they come out of their hiding spot they are stuck in the suds and suffocate. Then treat with DE. Microscopic mites need greater intervention.
> 
> ...


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## elevan (Oct 2, 2012)

Well...the borax in your homemade soap likely killed a good deal of your creepy crawlies.  Use caution as it can be toxic - don't let her lick it and make sure you get it completely rinsed.


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## FarmerBoy24 (Oct 13, 2012)

Hello everyone!

Sorry it's been a while. I continued the treatment of the soap, and dust, soap and dust, soap and dust and got rid of them!!  Thanks for all your guys help! I'm still going to keep my eye on her just in case! SUCCESS!      :bun


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## Southern by choice (Oct 13, 2012)

Thanks for letting us know how it worked for you.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Oct 14, 2012)

Glad you got rid of them!!


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## Alice Acres (Oct 14, 2012)

very good news. You are so lucky they didn't spread to the rest of the herd and animals.


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