# Insane fencing costs?



## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

Hello everyone!

We recently bought a property and want to fence in four 1-acre pastures.  We want them connected in sets of two with an aisle in between, so each set of 2 pastures shares one fence line.  

Since this property is out of state from our current farm, I'm trying to get fencing up so that we can simply move the goats over when we move.  

I am interested in woven wire fencing.  It's what we have now, it works great for both our goats and our potbellies.  So, I contacted a livestock fencing contractor to get a quote.

Anyway, when I saw it I almost had a heart attack.  Just over $25,000.
I'm sorry, what!?  

Is it just me or is that absolutely insane?  Is that seriously what fencing costs?  Woven wire cost $1500.  Even with labor costs, gates, posts...can it really be that much, or is this guy just way overpriced?  At this point I'd rather try to install it myself, with no experience LOL.


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## CntryBoy777 (Sep 27, 2017)

Right off the bat, that seems a bit steep....however, depending on the woven wire chosen, how many posts needed, how many gates desired at what width....and any land clearing needed to install such....the price can certainly fluctuate greatly. Without the specifics it is really difficult to truly say one way or the other. Also, depending on your location in NC there could be some very difficult ground to encounter in putting the needed posts down. Nothing is cheap much anymore, and material costs vary greatly on the wire used, posts and gates....but, labor will always be high.


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## Baymule (Sep 27, 2017)

We fenced in 8 acres with 2"x4"x48" woven wire, non climb horse wire. It was $230 for a 200 foot roll. We used 7' T-posts.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/non-climb-horse-fence-48-in-x-200-ft

You could go for a "work weekend" a few times and get one pasture fenced in, then move. We moved with horses and chickens and dogs.

Here's what we did. There are lots of comments that point out better ways of doing things than what we did on some of it. It's a good thread with lots of input, it might help you.
We have the entire outer parameter fenced (8 acres). There are 4 pastures fenced plus a garden. Our cost was less than half of what you were quoted for 4 acres. It is work, it took us awhile, but we got it done.

https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/non-climb-2-x4-horse-wire-fence.32922/


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## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

Baymule said:


> We fenced in 8 acres with 2"x4"x48" woven wire, non climb horse wire. It was $230 for a 200 foot roll. We used 7' T-posts.
> 
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/non-climb-horse-fence-48-in-x-200-ft
> 
> ...



Thank you!
Yes, the issue is that when I say out of state, I mean a solid 15 hour drive.  We are totally relocating, so it is not all together feesable to go up on weekends.

That being said, I refuse to pay $25000 for four acres LOL.  That's just crazy. Looks like I will be keeping the goats down here until we can get something up.


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## Alaskan (Sep 27, 2017)

We have been having to put up fencing in Texas...and the prices are insane...bad enough that I can't remember the costs.

But down there every single post hole needs to be blasted open ... (almost solid rock...tiny bits of dirt)...so it is understandable.


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## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

Alaskan said:


> We have been having to put up fencing in Texas...and the prices are insane...bad enough that I can't remember the costs.
> 
> But down there every single post hole needs to be blasted open ... (almost solid rock...tiny bits of dirt)...so it is understandable.



This is in NY.  It is soft farming ground that doesn't need to be cleared.  The guy said he charges $8 a foot, so that is where the price comes from. :-(


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## Alaskan (Sep 27, 2017)

ouch


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## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

Alaskan said:


> ouch


That is what I thought.  I just wanted to make sure I was justified in going a different route.  I know my work will not be as good as a contractor, but I just don't see how $25,000 for pretty cheap fencing on a small parcel is even passible.


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## greybeard (Sep 27, 2017)

Acres don't tell us much when you are going to be dividing it up into several paddocks. How much total linear feet of fence will be involved? How many corners and 'H' posts will be involved? You need to state that, because that is how any contractor has to estimate your costs.
I can get fencing done for about $2.50-$3/foot turnkey by a contractor, but that's steel corner posts, tee posts every 10' and 5 strand wire. If the lines need to be cleared of brush it will be a bit more per linear foot. $.50-$1-$2 extra per foot depending if it is heavy or light clearing needed.

If I were going to have a contractor build fence I would use one of 2 contractors.
Here's a link to the webpage of one of them and he travels the country..not just his area.
I haven't used it, but there is a fence material and cost calculator on his website. You just use the map he provides, zoom out and move over  to your area, then zoom in to the specific plot you want fenced and put the fence lines in and how much spacing and type wire you want.

https://www.farmfencesolutions.com/


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## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

greybeard said:


> Acres don't tell us much when you are going to be dividing it up into several paddocks. How much total linear feet of fence will be involved? How many corners and 'H' posts will be involved? You need to state that, because that is how any contractor has to estimate your costs.
> I can get fencing done for about $2.50-$3/foot turnkey by a contractor, but that's steel corner posts, tee posts every 10' and 5 strand wire. If the lines need to be cleared of brush it will be a bit more per linear foot. $.50-$1-$2 extra per foot depending if it is heavy or light clearing needed.
> 
> If I were going to have a contractor build fence I would use one of 2 contractors.
> ...


Thanks so much for the reply and rescources. 

It is essentially just 2 two acre pastures split in half to create 4 1 acre pastures. 

I'm not sure how to calculate that info.  As you can tell, I don't have experience with fencing haha!  That is why I was curious if this is actually reasonable for 4 acres. 

He also offered us 4 strand high tensile for 12k.  I think at these prices I am better off winging it myself, lol.

Edit: As per the contractor, it is 2800 feet of fence.  He charges $8 a foot.


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## secuono (Sep 27, 2017)

I'm not understanding how you want the fence. Can you draw up a picture? 

I drew a pic and this is what I got from what I understand.
Each side of a 1 acre square is 208.7103 feet. So I'll say 209ft.
Not getting nitpicky, and with 14 sides of 209ft. That is 2,926 linear feet.

 


My fence project cost roughly 3k per 1,000 feet installed. But, we bought all the rolls, he bought the rest and installed. 


So, 25k sounds way over kill.

Always get several estimates.


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## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

secuono said:


> I'm not understanding how you want the fence. Can you draw up a picture?
> 
> I drew a pic and this is what I got from what I understand.
> Each side of a 1 acre square is 208.7103 feet. So I'll say 209ft.
> ...



Yes, that is perfectly it with the middle part being totally open as an aisle.  

I agree that it is crazy!  Unfortunately this guy is the only livestock fencing contractor in the area.  I guess I could call around regular fencing contracters, I was not sure if a residential contractor would work with woven wire!  

It is looking like I might just try to hire a contractor to put in posts and then buy and put up the woven wire ourselves.  Sigh, just another stress of moving!


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## Mike CHS (Sep 27, 2017)

We got a cost estimate for a run of a hair under 1000' which came out to a little over $4000 so we decided to do our own.  That run is several times longer than the original 1000' and covers a little over 3 acres but is also cross fenced and has training pens.  That cost us a little over $3000 but we later ran two strands of electric over that and that wasn't included in that $3000.  Unlike you though we were living here full time then and had the time to get it done.

If you animals are trained to electric fence you could run 4 or even 5 strand high tensile electric for a fraction of the cost but I realize goats aren't as easy to keep in.  We have kept our sheep in 4 strand poly rope without issue (internal fence) but I wouldn't attempt to use it as exterior containment.


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## greybeard (Sep 27, 2017)

maritown said:


> We recently bought a property and want to fence in four 1-acre pastures. We want them connected in sets of two with an aisle in between, so each set of 2 pastures shares one fence line.


As I'm sure you know, an acre is a measurement of area (43,560 sq ft)  not linear feet and thus can be any shape. A perfect square or a long skinny rectangle or even a triangle or circle shape.
A perfect square acre has 4 equal sides  of 208.7 ft each, with a total perimeter of 834.5 linear ft.
4 sq acres would have a perimeter of 3338 linear ft of fence (not including the common alley and dividing fences)

I don't know what pastureland goes for in that area, but here, it's around $7000/acre.
At $8/ft, your fencing costs just for the 4 ac perimeter fence alone would be approaching what the land itself would cost.

I'm assuming this is what you have in mind:
(the dotted line is just to delineate the individual acres)



Add some dimensions to this from your survey plat and you will know how many linear ft of fence you need built and get some more quotes from other contractors. If the above is what you have in mind, I suspect the total linear feet will be close to 2500 ft.

(Edit, I now see you want each 2 acre section to share a common alley, not a common fence. You will need to add about 1/3 more ft of fence to your estimate)


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## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

Mike CHS said:


> We got a cost estimate for a run of a hair under 1000' which came out to a little over $4000 so we decided to do our own.  That run is several times longer than the original 1000' and covers a little over 3 acres but is also cross fenced and has training pens.  That cost us a little over $3000 but we later ran two strands of electric over that and that wasn't included in that $3000.  Unlike you though we were living here full time then and had the time to get it done.
> 
> If you animals are trained to electric fence you could run 4 or even 5 strand high tensile electric for a fraction of the cost but I realize goats aren't as easy to keep in.  We have kept our sheep in 4 strand poly rope without issue (internal fence) but I wouldn't attempt to use it as exterior containment.



Ha!  I wish they were now but I don't think our buck would care about a shock and I definitely don't want to worry about training during the move.  Hopefully in the future that is an option.

My dream fencing is crossfencing with no climb horse on the inside.  I just think it looks beautiful!  Woven wire is my idea of a pretty middle ground fence option.  I mean, who has 25k to blow on 4 acres?  The parcel is 20 total!


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## babsbag (Sep 27, 2017)

I had my 6 acres perimeter fenced, about 1800 feet. One side was already done. I bought 2x4  no climb horse fencing 4' tall and T posts, I'm guessing that it was about $2000 for material, I know the wire was $1200. I paid a neighbor to do the labor, $15.00 an hour. For him and a friend it was two weekends at about $600 total labor. And my land was far from level and clear, they had to clear brush and trees. I did the corner posts myself.  They price you have been quoted is insane.


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## greybeard (Sep 27, 2017)

One of the reasons small parcel fencing seems so outlandish, is the startup/move-in costs for the contractor is the same for 4 acres as it is for 40 acres. They still have a crew they have to pay wages to, pay insurance on, tie up a tractor, trailer, drilling or driving equipment, so their costs per foot to the customer is going to be higher than if it was for a larger parcel. 
You may well get a better price from the residential contractors in your area. They  do small parcels routinely. 

The longest single run I have built here was 2200 ft of 5 strand HT barbed wire. It was hard work. Had I known at the time that I could have gotten an equal or better fence built by a contractor for about $2.50/ft and never had to dig a single hole, drive a single staple or tie a single tee post tie myself, I would have jumped on it. 
I spent over $1000 just in Tee post, another $500 in barbed wire, and I don't know how many big 8'X 8"+ posts for corners, mid fence H posts and it has 5 gates in it, at about $150 each. I had better thing to do with my time, sweat and blood than building than fence myself at age 60.


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## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

greybeard said:


> One of the reasons small parcel fencing seems so outlandish, is the startup/move-in costs for the contractor is the same for 4 acres as it is for 40 acres. They still have a crew they have to pay wages to, pay insurance on, tie up a tractor, trailer, drilling or driving equipment, so their costs per foot to the customer is going to be higher than if it was for a larger parcel.
> You may well get a better price from the residential contractors in your area. They  do small parcels routinely.
> 
> The longest single run I have built here was 2200 ft of 5 strand HT barbed wire. It was hard work. Had I known at the time that I could have gotten an equal or better fence built by a contractor for about $2.50/ft and never had to dig a single hole, drive a single staple or tie a single tee post tie myself, I would have jumped on it.
> I spent over $1000 just in Tee post, another $500 in barbed wire, and I don't know how many big 8'X 8"+ posts for corners, mid fence H posts and it has 5 gates in it, at about $150 each. I had better thing to do with my time, sweat and blood than building than fence myself at age 60.



That is an interesting point.  Still, there must be reasonable limits.  I just cannot imagine anyone being willing to pay 25k for 4 acres of cheap fencing.  I guess they must be out there though if he happily charges that much!

I will definitely get quotes from regular contractors.  Hopefully there are some cheaper options because 25k is just not feasible.


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## Baymule (Sep 27, 2017)

What about temporary pens made of sheep and goat panels? The goats might be mad at you for a while, but they'd get over it. Then you could get one pasture built and turn them out. And the sheep and goat panels will always have a use for lots of things.

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/feedlot-panel-sheep-goat-16-ft-l-x-48-in-h


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## maritown (Sep 27, 2017)

Baymule said:


> What about temporary pens made of sheep and goat panels? The goats might be mad at you for a while, but they'd get over it. Then you could get one pasture built and turn them out. And the sheep and goat panels will always have a use for lots of things.
> 
> https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/feedlot-panel-sheep-goat-16-ft-l-x-48-in-h



This is a great idea.  If I can't get a decent quote from a contractor we will definitely go this route.


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## Baymule (Sep 27, 2017)

If you have no shelter for them, you can throw up a hoop shelter. I have a hoop coop for my chickens, took me a few days to build it. You could build a frame work for the bottom, put a back on it and cover with a tarp. You could probably get one up in a day.


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## greybeard (Sep 28, 2017)

I threw this question on to another board that some professional fencers are on and one of the things that was pointed out is the number of corners involved and the number of individual 'pulls' or 'stretches' involved. Instead of just 4 corners if it were one 4 ac parcel being fenced, it will have at least 24 corners, and obviously some gateways will have to be included.
Still, the consensus is that the job is overpriced, barring any unknowns regarding terrain, local labor costs, or limitations we don't know about.


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## Mini Horses (Sep 28, 2017)

So, it's 15 hrs drive.   Go for a few days a little before move.  Take (or have lined up to buy) T-posts, cattle panels, clips, T-post pounder, gates and throw up a secure area to handle your animals while you either up the full fence area or watch a contractor do it.   You can feed/water in this area while you get the place like you want it.  Post and panels can always be moved and TRUST US -- you never want to be without a few extra posts and panels on a farm with livestock!!


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## greybeard (Sep 28, 2017)

I think this is more representative of what the project entails. The gate placements might be different and it doesn't include any gates to allow entrance into the 4 ac parcel but you get an idea of the number of braced corners, braced gate openings needed, and the number of individual pulls on the wire. All have to be taken into consideration by you and/or the contractor when trying to figure costs.


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## maritown (Sep 28, 2017)

Here's the drawing that the contractor based the estimate on.  Even if I counted each corner WITHIN the pastures, it's 16 corners?  Or am I missing something?


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2017)

Where are you moving to? There's got to be other fence companies...
Mine was a small farm & residential company. 

You can have the company install all corners, braces and inline posts, then you install the wire and gates. That will save you a good amount, but it's hard to get the wire tight without heavy machinery.
I used heavy crank straps to tighten the fence, no where the same as what the contractor did, but it'll work.


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## maritown (Sep 28, 2017)

secuono said:


> Where are you moving to? There's got to be other fence companies...
> Mine was a small farm & residential company.
> 
> You can have the company install all corners, braces and inline posts, then you install the wire and gates. That will save you a good amount, but it's hard to get the wire tight without heavy machinery.
> I used heavy crank straps to tighten the fence, no where the same as what the contractor did, but it'll work.



That's what we did on our current property.  The owners had up wooden posts and 2 strands very old electric that did not work.  We installed woven wire ourselves using baling twine and a stick, LOL.  It was very hard work but it has held up the 2 years we've been here.  Unfortunately we just don't have that kind of time now.  

I got another quote from a residential contractor today...$18 per linear foot!  Just to reiterate, the second contractor quoted $50,000 FOR FOUR ACRES!!!  I said "no thanks" and they said they want to make it work, so I wonder if they truly are just throwing out numbers and expecting me to say OK!? 

We will see if they can give me a quote for just the posts. This is upstate NY, very cheap farmland.  But honestly, even if those WERE reasonable quotes for the area, they are not reasonable to me lol. I feel like I am in the twilight zone.  I KNOW that materials are not that much.  This is flat, easy land!  It's looking like we will throw up some panels as holding pens and just do it ourselves.


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## greybeard (Sep 28, 2017)

maritown said:


> Here's the drawing that the contractor based the estimate on.  Even if I counted each corner WITHIN the pastures, it's 16 corners?  Or am I missing something?


For a contractor, gate openings are the same as a 90deg corner as far as the labor and material costs go. The gates have to have 2 posts on each side of them, with a horizontal brace between. They count as corners even they are each an 'H' and in a straight line. You can't just plant a single post on each side of a gate and not brace off against the wire strain and the weight of the gate on the other end. The posts would be leaning outward away from each other in no time and you'll have trouble latching the gates, which will also no longer be hanging level. 

I have over 25 drive thru gates on my place, not including the ones in the cattle handling pen and each one has an H brace on each side of it..a lesson I learned the hard way.


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## maritown (Sep 28, 2017)

greybeard said:


> For a contractor, gate openings are the same as a 90deg corner as far as the labor and material costs go. The gates have to have 2 posts on each side of them, with a horizontal brace between. They count as corners even they are each an 'H' and in a straight line. You can't just plant a single post on each side of a gate and not brace off against the wire strain and the weight of the gate on the other end. The posts would be leaning outward away from each other in no time and you'll have trouble latching the gates, which will also no longer be hanging level.
> 
> I have over 25 drive thru gates on my place, not including the ones in the cattle handling pen and each one has an H brace on each side of it..a lesson I learned the hard way.



Oh interesting!  I knew they needed braces but did not know about how they are considered, interesting to hear things from a contractor POV.


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## greybeard (Sep 28, 2017)

Just to be clear, I am NOT a fence contractor. Have enough to do on my own place and too old to do anyone else's anyway.


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## maritown (Sep 28, 2017)

greybeard said:


> Just to be clear, I am NOT a fence contractor. Have enough to do on my own place and too old to do anyone else's anyway.



Ha!  No worries, I understand.  The extent of my fencing knowledge is minor repairs and putting up woven wire where fence posts were already set.  I just mean it's very new to have to think of things in terms of actual planning and utility!


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## secuono (Sep 28, 2017)

Woof!
That is nuts!!
I knew NY was pricey in general, but that seems beyond crazy!
Gawd, I would think it would be cheaper for  my fence guy to haul up there, rent a hotel, do the work and then haul all his stuff back down for under the first quote! =/

I wonder if anyone further out would be willing to do the job for less, still be high, but less. I wonder that because there was a company at the va/nc border who was willing to drive up and install the fence. He was not much more, but he wanted money up front and I refuse to ever pay anything before supplies are on my land or work begins. 

That is another thing to be careful with, especially since you are so far away. Have someone stop by to ensure the work has been started, then pay a small amount.


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## maritown (Sep 28, 2017)

secuono said:


> Woof!
> That is nuts!!
> I knew NY was pricey in general, but that seems beyond crazy!
> Gawd, I would think it would be cheaper for  my fence guy to haul up there, rent a hotel, do the work and then haul all his stuff back down for under the first quote! =/
> ...



I know right! Grrr.  The thing is, Upstate NY is not very expensive!  Absolutely everything, barns, land, house has been cheaper than where we are now- NC.  That's why I'm so shocked to be getting these outlandish quotes!!

It is so hard to organize from far away!  More calls tomorrow I guess....I am thinking I might try PA where they have huge farming communities but honestly I can't imagine anyone will want to make the drive.  We still have a month before moving day so everyone cross your fingers I don't spend the first week in my new paradise pounding fence posts and soothing screaming farm animals


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## Simpleterrier (Sep 28, 2017)

A few years ago  I saw an add to for field fenceing and I could have done a ten acre pasture for I think 10000 and that was including a gate an acre. If I was you I would start calling the Amish. Try Holmes county Ohio businesses or I think there is even a few communities in new York


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## maritown (Sep 28, 2017)

Simpleterrier said:


> A few years ago  I saw an add to for field fenceing and I could have done a ten acre pasture for I think 10000 and that was including a gate an acre. If I was you I would start calling the Amish. Try Holmes county Ohio businesses or I think there is even a few communities in new York



Our new neighbors are actually a very nice Amish family!  They are building our barns!  I am trying to get a fencing quote from them but they are very busy and also don't use phones...lol.  I will definitely keep my eye out though!  If I could do 10 acres for 10k I would be over the moon.


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## Latestarter (Sep 28, 2017)

25K is a ridiculous amount for what you're getting done. 50K is larceny, pure and simple. I agree with the previous post stating to buy some T posts, cattle panels and clips and put up a dry yard to hold the animals while you get the fencing completed. Nearest I can estimate:







ETA: With the gates, I'm assuming you use the provided mounting hardware and chain latches. If you choose fancier latches or hanging hardware, that would add extra cost.


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## maritown (Sep 28, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> 25K is a ridiculous amount for what you're getting done. 50K is larceny, pure and simple. I agree with the previous post stating to buy some T posts, cattle panels and clips and put up a dry yard to hold the animals while you get the fencing completed. Nearest I can estimate:
> View attachment 38906
> View attachment 38905
> ETA: With the gates, I'm assuming you use the provided mounting hardware and chain latches. If you choose fancier latches or hanging hardware, that would add extra cost.



BYH is AMAZING!! 

I made this thread to make sure I wasn't crazy for thinking those prices were out of the question and you all have been so supportive!! I feel very equipped to get everything done in a reasonable price range with all of this support


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## greybeard (Sep 28, 2017)

Maybe the job may be too small for your local farm fencer and the residential contractor as well and they are intentionally pricing themselves out of the job..perhaps because they are already busy or hoping for a bigger job.
Who knows...


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## farmerjan (Sep 28, 2017)

Have read all that you have posted and the answers.  Greybeard is one of the most experienced here, and he makes some very valid points.  All the braces and such to keep the fence upright, wire tight and gates functional  are costly.  Did it ever occur to you to get the perimeter fenced, then go back and put in the division fences later?  Especially since you are not there and may find that you really wanted the gate here instead of over at the other end????  Stuff like that.  Then there is also the whole...it's getting closer to winter and WINTER is spelled with capital letters in upstate NY.   I am originally a New Englander, and know very well about the winters, snow, ice, long nights and short days, miserable cold temps, MUD SEASON,  and all that.  Also, what about water availability?  Putting in underground water with frost proof faucets would be alot easier if there aren't ten different fences to have to work around.  

Another thing, suppose you want one or two lots to be smaller to house a male animal and then you need to have a larger area to house a few females together?  Then the fence is already permanent and you are finding it is not practical....
Also, look at the sketch that latestarter showed.... there is alot more sense in a center alley halfway and so the back 2 lots will share a common fenceline but you will save alot of extra fencing/posts/bracing etc..
What about having electrified netting as interior divider fences until you figure out what works the best.  UNTIL  you live with the weather and such for a little while, you might be just putting too much into it  right off the bat.  

Yes land and farms are ALOT CHEAPER up in NY state.  The taxes are a B%@#H,  and the winters are tough.  I have family in NY so know firsthand....  The growing season is shorter and the winters are longer.  It's beautiful up there as is Vermont and NH.  But it is not for everyone.  Since you are committed and planning the move soon  I would be a bit hesitant to put that much into the fencing until you have dealt with the day to day.  The 16'  fence panels from TSC can be put up fairly easily with T-posts,  and will do for temp pens, and since you will have a barn they can be used for alleyways to move animals to pastures.  If your animals respect electric, I would use that for temp interior fencing until you get there and then are able to deal with it in person. 

My son does some fencing for the different people we rent from, and I showed him a sketch of what you were proposing and he just said NO WAY;  way too much work and bracing....it will cost them a small fortune.  We have no skin in the game so are not trying to rip you off;  just his off hand comment.


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## Mike CHS (Sep 29, 2017)

When we first started the planning phase for our paddocks I wanted a lane going between four 2+ acre paddocks.  We got one finished and then cross fenced it to the size we wanted but it was a couple of months before we got back to building fence.  I put gates in each of the corners and used electric netting to let the sheep graze during the day and it didn't take long to see that I didn't need an alley at all so when we built the other paddocks we built gates to allow for movement within the paddocks into all of the others.  We have a few $ tied up in gates but the fence material cost went down considerably from what I was planning.  Our fence is well inside the property lines so that wasn't a consideration.


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## maritown (Sep 29, 2017)

farmerjan said:


> Have read all that you have posted and the answers.  Greybeard is one of the most experienced here, and he makes some very valid points.  All the braces and such to keep the fence upright, wire tight and gates functional  are costly.  Did it ever occur to you to get the perimeter fenced, then go back and put in the division fences later?  Especially since you are not there and may find that you really wanted the gate here instead of over at the other end????  Stuff like that.  Then there is also the whole...it's getting closer to winter and WINTER is spelled with capital letters in upstate NY.   I am originally a New Englander, and know very well about the winters, snow, ice, long nights and short days, miserable cold temps, MUD SEASON,  and all that.  Also, what about water availability?  Putting in underground water with frost proof faucets would be alot easier if there aren't ten different fences to have to work around.
> 
> Another thing, suppose you want one or two lots to be smaller to house a male animal and then you need to have a larger area to house a few females together?  Then the fence is already permanent and you are finding it is not practical....
> Also, look at the sketch that latestarter showed.... there is alot more sense in a center alley halfway and so the back 2 lots will share a common fenceline but you will save alot of extra fencing/posts/bracing etc..
> ...



Hmm...all things to think about.  Perhaps I will draw up new plans and see about getting quotes with those.  Though I will say the price is not coming from braces, it's coming from being charged $8 and $18 a foot.  So though your points are valid, I don't think it's the braces that are causing me trouble.  

I don't want pastures less than an acre, and if I did I would put it in myself with panels and T-posts.  We have 1/2 acre pastures for our bucks right now and I have spent the entire time wishing they had more.

Water isn't an issue- the plan with the aisle was designed to have the in ground water at the junction of four pastures.  I also didn't want to rely on gates to get to the back acreage of the property- what if all pastures are full?  I don't want to have to wrestle animals from gates just to drive through.

But again, all things to think about.  I didn't think fencing 4 acres would be such a big deal!!


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## maritown (Sep 29, 2017)

The big reason for the alley was because the property has essentially a bottle neck of about 5 acres cleared which then widens out to the remaining wooded 15.  So to utilize the 5 cleared, I wanted to make the edges of the fencing just shy of being perimeter fences.  The alley was so that there was access to the later 15 LOL.  

Any ideas how to design around that?


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## Mini Horses (Sep 29, 2017)

I have 15 acres, basically all cleared.   Over time, all has been fenced and I DO HAVE an alley the entire length of the property.  It is used as a driveway, as a way to move or separate animals and/or contain them if need be.  I am glad I worked it this way.  Easy to move upper to lower without worrying, load out hay, move equipment, feeder, etc.  

At first I put one side, then added the other over time when $$ available.  Water is run the entire length, underground & spigots up at various locations to fill troughs, generally where 4 corners are.  I have a rectangle property also.  It is a great method for movement -- seen at all the big horse farms!  LOL

While there are 4 gates that mostly remain open in the alley, I do also keep a "spare" cattle panel or two in a couple locations in case I need to quickly section a smaller area.  Works for me!   I often place a few animals in the alley to help "mow" or use as a holding pen while I have to access pasture area without their help.  About 1/2 way, I have and expended location where I can turn my truck if needed, within the alley.


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## maritown (Sep 29, 2017)

Mini Horses said:


> I have 15 acres, basically all cleared.   Over time, all has been fenced and I DO HAVE an alley the entire length of the property.  It is used as a driveway, as a way to move or separate animals and/or contain them if need be.  I am glad I worked it this way.  Easy to move upper to lower without worrying, load out hay, move equipment, feeder, etc.
> 
> At first I put one side, then added the other over time when $$ available.  Water is run the entire length, underground & spigots up at various locations to fill troughs, generally where 4 corners are.  I have a rectangle property also.  It is a great method for movement -- seen at all the big horse farms!  LOL
> 
> While there are 4 gates that mostly remain open in the alley, I do also keep a "spare" cattle panel or two in a couple locations in case I need to quickly section a smaller area.  Works for me!   I often place a few animals in the alley to help "mow" or use as a holding pen while I have to access pasture area without their help.  About 1/2 way, I have and expended location where I can turn my truck if needed, within the alley.



Glad to see this worked for someone!  That is my idea as well; I think it is much more trouble to have the only through-way be through pastures.  I grew up on horse farms so maybe that is a common factor LOL.


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## greybeard (Sep 29, 2017)

maritown said:


> Though I will say the price is not coming from braces, it's coming from being charged $8 and $18 a foot. So though your points are valid, I don't think it's the braces that are causing me trouble.



$8/ft is extreme, but you have to realize, that the way any contractor, whether a house framer or a fence builder quotes a job is to consider all the (for a house) angles, pitches, stairs etc, and for a fence, the number of openings, corners, cross fences and bracing, then quotes a price per sq ft on a building,or price per linear foot on a fence based on what is entailed in the whole job---the more openings, individual pulls, corners, braces etc, the more the quote per linear ft is going to be...but again, $8/ft seems very high. If it were just a straight line fence, with very few gate openings and no corners, but of the same total length as the fence around and across your 4 ac, I very much suspect the price/ft would be lower.

As others have said, even with your stated limited experience, you or I could build your fence much cheaper doing it ourselves. Our labor is free, we won't have to pay liability insurance, just go buy the materials, some fencing tools and get after it, assuming we have the time to do so before we wanted to stock it.

Do not be surprised if your first product doesn't flow and work as you envisioned it to.
I re-did my cattle handling facility several times before I got it to work efficiently.  Animals and how they act and react to opening and closing gates into another paddock will always surprise you. It's why I now have over 25 gates on my place instead of just the handful I began with, and I still need some more cross fences and a much longer funnel shaped alley leading into my cow pen.

I suggest, you make a better, more detailed drawing of your whole property, if possible using a survey plat or google earth and paste it into an image editor such as MS paint and add in where you want your 4 ac paddocks.
A rough one of my property I just did in 10 minutes in Paint, with white=crossfences, blue=gates, yellow=perimeter fences. It's not all of it, and I don't have every gate indicated, but close enough.


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## farmerjan (Sep 29, 2017)

As Greybeard said, the price per foot is with all the braces, wire, gates etc figured in.  There is alot of labor in the design.  And I totally agree with the trying to go through a gate when all the animals want to follow right along and you don't want them in the next field.  I understand better that the alley/driveway will also be access to the back piece of property....that makes a big difference and good reason to want to have it.  I think that the idea of plotting it  with google earth and all that might make you see it differently, or at least  you will know for sure that what you are wanting is what you need.  The alley way can be dual purpose also as mini horses said.  We have a couple of lanes that we can open and direct cattle to certain places and such so they are very handy.  Maybe you can get one side done and then do the other side next year or as you can do it.


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## maritown (Sep 30, 2017)

farmerjan said:


> As Greybeard said, the price per foot is with all the braces, wire, gates etc figured in.  There is alot of labor in the design.  And I totally agree with the trying to go through a gate when all the animals want to follow right along and you don't want them in the next field.  I understand better that the alley/driveway will also be access to the back piece of property....that makes a big difference and good reason to want to have it.  I think that the idea of plotting it  with google earth and all that might make you see it differently, or at least  you will know for sure that what you are wanting is what you need.  The alley way can be dual purpose also as mini horses said.  We have a couple of lanes that we can open and direct cattle to certain places and such so they are very handy.  Maybe you can get one side done and then do the other side next year or as you can do it.



Funnily enough, the 25k quote was the only one who even had details on the project.  The 18/ft quoted that without knowing size or layout.  Others I'm calling are busy, or don't do ag fencing.  Looks like we will be doing it ourselves


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## Baymule (Sep 30, 2017)

Get one of these! Best $200 we spent! 

https://www.harborfreight.com/gas-powered-earth-auger-63022.html







Read, read and read some more the fence forum. When thoroughly confused, ask questions. We made a lot of mistakes on our fence, but it is up and it works. Nothing will be perfect. We are proud of our fence. Just about the time we got done, we got really good at what we were doing. LOL 

YOU CAN DO THIS!


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## Baymule (Oct 1, 2017)

Be sure to deeply offset your front gate to allow truck and trailer room and allow a wide driveway at the road for swing room. You don't want to be parked out on the road, blocking traffic, while you open the gate, so set the gate deep enough to accommodate truck and trailer with room to spare. We set a 16' gate on the front. We put in two 20' culverts linked together for swing room. We use it because we live on a narrow county road.  We have another 16' gate where we needed swing room, everything else is 12' gates. Anything less than 12', unless it is a walk through, is useless, especially for a tractor to go through. More is better. After my husband took out a gate post, I realized I could have used another 16' gate. Patched with T-posts for now, will get rehung with a 16' gate this winter. LOL


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## maritown (Oct 2, 2017)

Hey all!

We ended up being able to hire our Amish neighbors to do the job so it is looking like it will be up before the official move! Yay!

So I am now in the process of buying materials.  I decided to go ahead and cut down on the pasture size by half-to 1/2 acre pastures, so that we could get it up and then use these as kidding pastures in the future.

What size wood posts should I be looking at?  We'll be using wood posts for all corners and gates, and t-posts anywhere in between.  It looks like TS only carries up to 6in diameter...this seems kind of small to me, but they charge $15 a piece   what do you all think, worth it?  They have 4in for $8 a piece, but that seems so small to me.

What kind of posts do you all use?  Experiences, wisdom!?  Thank you all


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## babsbag (Oct 2, 2017)

I used 8" for the posts and 6" for the horizontal bracing.  

@greybeard I love all your gates...just reinforces my thinking that one can never have too many gates.


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## Latestarter (Oct 2, 2017)

Corner posts need to be hefty as they'll be bearing a lot of strain. 6" minimum... 8" better, but work with what's available.


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## Simpleterrier (Oct 2, 2017)

Maybe u could find old electric polls. I pick them up for free all the time. Built a whole barn and other pens out of them.


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## Baymule (Oct 2, 2017)

We used 8" round and square. We are blessed with lots of red cedar, so we cut and used them too. On a corner post, the bigger the better. Your Amish neighbors can give you guidance on this.


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## Goatisatva (Oct 4, 2017)

Are you going to put up predator fencing?  Below ground deep enough to keep dogs and coyotes from digging and above ground top wire for climbing predators?


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## maritown (Oct 4, 2017)

Goatisatva said:


> Are you going to put up predator fencing?  Below ground deep enough to keep dogs and coyotes from digging and above ground top wire for climbing predators?



No, we have LGD.


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## klcardella (Oct 4, 2017)

That seems really high, but your costs may be higher where you live.  I paid 37.5 cents in labor per linear foot of woven wire fencing, including driving t-posts, and concreting in all wood posts, corners, hanging gates, etc.  Materials were not included.   For 60 acres fenced and cross fenced, including labor, materials, gates, etc., it was a little less than $20,000.  I cannot imagine the justification for $25,000 for 4 acres, regardless of where you live, especially for livestock fencing.


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## Reindeermama (Oct 4, 2017)

We are rebuilding fencing right now. My brother-in-law had some ranch fencing done not long ago. It was $10,000. for  a mile of fencing. I think I am going to buy that tool from Harbor freight, It looks like a good investment.


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## Baymule (Oct 4, 2017)

That auger was a life saver! We used it on every single wood post, corner posts, end of roll braces, crossing a gully double H braces on both sides, gate posts--EVERYTHING!!


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## Cruzey (Oct 4, 2017)

I have a smaller goat herd but I had 200 dairy goats fenced in with 4 tier electric 14 ga steel wire. Once trained they seldom got out. Now SOME counties have a fencing program. It is for converting hay fields to pasture. You can farm it again in two years BUT the fence has to stay up for 20 years . that is how it is here. It covers up to 90 percent of cost. It is done through the ASC office. The NRCS. soil conservation folks. It is to give incentive to stop corrosion. Each state and county has their own program usually. So contact your Agricultural services there and see what they do. Some have woven wire programs like they did here but expenses made them switch to 5 strand high tensile steel. Good luck


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## Mike CHS (Oct 4, 2017)

Most new farms don't qualify the first year (in Tennessee anyway and several other states that I'm familiar with).  We are going to apply for some funds next year for some equipment improvements but we weren't eligible this year (you need 50 head of livestock and we only have 25).   Next summer we will be closer to 75 head.


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## Rezchamp (Oct 4, 2017)

Lots of different ideas.
I just do stuff myself. It cuts costs by about 1/2.
I buy lathed 4" green treated fence posts. They're in the grounds every 20'. The corners are braced by angling a 10' 2x4 fro the top of the corner post to the bottom(pretty much ground level) of another post about 7' away. Same thing going the other way from the corner. All corners are done the same way. (Kinda like Baymule's pic on pg6 except for the top{horizontal)rails). All the gates are the same way too.
Using a crowbar I make holes about an inch or 2 smaller in diameter than the post, pit some water in the hole and start the post into the hole just placing it there with a little thrust. Where safety glasses or close your eyes and look away or the muddy water could splash into them(eyes).
A 12 lb post mall and 45 gallon drum gives you some really good muscle tone. If a sq acre is roughly 210x210 so your fence overall length will be roughly 2730 linear feet.
Dang with much fencing I'd go square to bout 682x682 to make one large pasture of roughly 10 acres. It takes 2 miles of fence to close 1 quarter section but it takes double the fence(4 miles) to close 4x the land(a section) and double the fence again to do quadruple the acreage again. What I mean is it's much more cost efficient to go square.
That said I appreciatte your desire to employ your proposed layout.
And yes, cost of most stuff is steadily rising.
I wish you well.


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## maritown (Oct 5, 2017)

Just to update, we bought fencing materials for about 4k and rented an auger for the weekend for about $200.  The Amish labor costs for about 20 hrs is around 1500.  So even if it takes them 40hrs, we are sitting happily at less then half of the quoted price.  Thanks for all the help everyone!  It is so fun to hear what fencing everyone has, LOL.


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## dejavoodoo114 (Oct 5, 2017)

I am so glad you were able to reduce your cost! I saw this thread pop up but was waiting for time to reply. For us, we paid $1.20 a foot for approx 9 acres of steep nasty pasture. They even had to rent a mini back hoe to level some of it out so their bobcat wouldn't roll! Cost me $12,000 all told for 5 strand electric High Tensile fence. Which does keep our goats and swine in so long as the electric is working!


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## maritown (Oct 5, 2017)

dejavoodoo114 said:


> I am so glad you were able to reduce your cost! I saw this thread pop up but was waiting for time to reply. For us, we paid $1.20 a foot for approx 9 acres of steep nasty pasture. They even had to rent a mini back hoe to level some of it out so their bobcat wouldn't roll! Cost me $12,000 all told for 5 strand electric High Tensile fence. Which does keep our goats and swine in so long as the electric is working!



I'm thinking of doing the high tensile for the rest of the acreage when we are ready to fence it!  I definitely wanted the woven wire to start as I knew we would be too busy with the move to worry about any sort of learning curve with the animals.

It'll be a lot of fun moving forward to learn and experiment with fencing!


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## Bruce (Oct 5, 2017)

I don't know about your animals but @Mike CHS and I can tell you that we both learned REAL FAST that the electric fence wasn't something we wanted to touch a second time (and it wasn't on purpose the FIRST time!) I bet even a "dumb animal" will learn just as fast.

Glad your neighbors were willing to do the work. I'm sure they don't have the overhead of the fencing company as detailed by @greybeard. But I bet they have as much experience building fences


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## Baymule (Oct 5, 2017)

I sure am glad that the fence situation got all fixed up for you! Good neighbors are a blessing!


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## Mike CHS (Oct 5, 2017)

Bruce is right that it doesn't take two times to learn but I have been bit more than that.   The one thing I would make sure of is that you don't have many power outages.  My sheep can sense when I turn the power off and they will cross under the hot wires.  I'm not sure how they do that but they do.


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## Bruce (Oct 6, 2017)

Hurts the 2nd and 3rd time too doesn't it!

Hmm, I hope the predators I'm expecting to keep out don't have that same sense! I'm not worried about the alpacas going over though I suppose they could. They never even tried the cr@ppy 3ish to 1.3ish foot fence that was here before I properly fenced in the acre with 4' field fence topped with hot wire at 5'. I've never seen them jump anything.


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## Young At Heart (Oct 9, 2017)

maritown said:


> Hello everyone!
> 
> We recently bought a property and want to fence in four 1-acre pastures.  We want them connected in sets of two with an aisle in between, so each set of 2 pastures shares one fence line.
> 
> ...


Yes that is insane! We had 3 sides of 45 acres plus 3 long stretches of cross fence and 5 gates put in , ( woven wire with 1 strand of barbedwired for a cost of approx $6500 Ask around you may be able to find an all purpose handy guy with fence experience who'll do it for less Its mainly hard work Several quotes are a must We had pond building quotes range from 7500 to over 100k Good luck! Enjoy your new place


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## farmerjan (Oct 9, 2017)

A couple of things about high tensile.  First off, I hate it.  It comes from many bad experiences with it and there are lots of people who love it and would do it every time. 
For things like the flooding that greybeard had to deal with and survive, it worked just the way it was supposed to.  It does work good in woods if trees etc fall on it.

Here, unless you KEEP IT  hot the cows will put their heads through to get the grass that is always better on the other side and they can just push their way through. It stretches/gives.   Calves regularly will go through it unless HOT.

We have to take deer out of it that will jump it and get it caught and twisted around their hind leg and hang until they are dead because they can't get out.

With the coyote problems we have had, we have also lost several calves that panicked and tried to run through it and got caught with a hind leg and hung upside down until it killed them.  Even hot, the coyotes will sneak through and then the cattle can panic.  Especially the calves.  How the wire manages to get twisted around a hind leg or two I don't know but have seen it too many times.  It's sickening to go find a calf hanging upside down and see where they dug into the dirt with their front legs trying to get out with no chance of it ever happening.

It won't keep out any predator animals; like good woven wire type fence will help to keep them out or at least discourage their getting in.

It's a pain to work with and will hurt you if it should come loose or get cut or broken and the whiplash of it is terrible, because it is stretched and will spring when the tension is gone.  All fence gets stretched, but high tensile is like a rubber band in a sling shot and snaps back.

It is good for cross fencing as a 1 or 2 strand electric fence to divide fields if you want to graze it in sections, but you can't move it for rotational grazing.

It won't keep our White Texas Dall sheep in, hot or not, and wouldn't contain the babados black belly sheep we had in the past either.

Woven wire is the pits when there is a tree fallen on it, and it ruins it where it is squashed down.  But we will take the negatives every time over the high tensile.


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## greybeard (Oct 9, 2017)

farmerjan said:


> It stretches/gives. Calves regularly will go through it unless HOT


If your HT is getting loose, you didn't pull it tight enough when you installed it. It's the primary reason for using it..it doesn't get loose if pulled tight enough to begin with. 
Calves will also go thru any 5 strand fence too..barbed included--space between wires is just to big. I've started going back along some of my fences and adding slick (non-barb) HT between the lower 3-4 strands, making them 8 strand. Lots cheaper than installing knotted field fence type wire, and I can't use a lot of field fence anyway..crap builds up on it during flood and the whole fence turns into a solid debris wall and the water just pushes the posts over.


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## farmerjan (Oct 9, 2017)

The HT was professionally installed  and it is not loose.  It has the give/stretch  so that it will bounce back etc like when yours was in the flood.  I have sat and watched the cows get their heads through it and just keep leaning and the calves will get through it too.  When they pull back. it is tight and you can hear it "sing"  if the wind blows right.

Here in Va a legal fence is 8 strands  for a height of 44 inches or something close to that.  All depends on where you are located.  But, what I am saying is that these fences are 8 strands  not 4 or 5.  
Have barbed wire at 2 places we rent and the calves like to  try to go through it too.  It will stretch out a little more.  Mostly it is along or through woods where there isn't anything to tempt them to want to go through for.

The white tailed deer are such a problem here that they take fences down if they aren't real tight.  The woven wire they go over but mostly they prefer to go under if they can find a spot.  If they are spooked then they will run and jump over.  Almost every farmer here gets damage permits so that they can shoot them during the summer too.  I have seen as many as 25 out grazing in an alfalfa field like they were cattle.  I usually hit at least one a year on my way to test cows.


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## maritown (Oct 9, 2017)

I'm not a fan of barbed wire at all (for my purposes).  The more I think of it the less I want to rely on electric.

I don't think I will do woven wire again though.  I think it's perfect for small acreage but the maintence on a large tract would be too much for me.  Ah well, long time before I get the back 15 fenced anyhow 

I wonder if I should start a thread for everyone to show off their setups! Its so interesting


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## Jeanne Sheridan (Oct 10, 2017)

Cruzey said:


> I have a smaller goat herd but I had 200 dairy goats fenced in with 4 tier electric 14 ga steel wire. Once trained they seldom got out. Now SOME counties have a fencing program. It is for converting hay fields to pasture. You can farm it again in two years BUT the fence has to stay up for 20 years . that is how it is here. It covers up to 90 percent of cost. It is done through the ASC office. The NRCS. soil conservation folks. It is to give incentive to stop corrosion. Each state and county has their own program usually. So contact your Agricultural services there and see what they do. Some have woven wire programs like they did here but expenses made them switch to 5 strand high tensile steel. Good luck


The fence we are replacing around our farm is 4 tier 14 gauge and we have watched our goats walk through it without touching a single wire.  Our youngest doeling is particularly good at getting around anything but 2"x4" woven.  Every time the local farm store has it on sales we buy more rolls.


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## Bruce (Oct 10, 2017)

Sounds like you know why people buy no climb fence for their goats!


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## Simpleterrier (Oct 10, 2017)

Any animal can get over or threw any fence if it wants to. I have seen deer in ht and barbed and woven. I've seen cows blow threw all three kinds also. If your animal wants out it will get out unless u have fort Knox.


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## Jeanne Sheridan (Oct 10, 2017)

Simpleterrier said:


> Any animal can get over or threw any fence if it wants to. I have seen deer in ht and barbed and woven. I've seen cows blow threw all three kinds also. If your animal wants out it will get out unless u have fort Knox.


I agree.


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