# Growing out Rabbits?



## mtnckn (Dec 3, 2009)

I have a question for everyone. Would I be able to say build a 20X20 pen Earth over mesh wire bottom(so they don't dig out) pen to grow and fatten rabbits up till butchering time or would that not work? Thanks everyone for your help.


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## houndit (Dec 3, 2009)

The rabbits love to have the grass.  They will wipe it out in no time.  Would this pen be portable?


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## maidservant (Dec 13, 2009)

What you're talking about is technically a colony set up.  They are used extensively in Europe.  As long as you can keep them from digging out, squeezing through the wire, and keep predators from getting in, it's a very viable option.  I would suggest having two pens, rabbits can breed at 4 weeks old.  It's rare, but possible.  Be sure to provide them with hay kept in a dry place, feed, and plenty of water.  

I have a breeding colony set up, and so far I love it.  The pen won't hold in youngsters right now, so I'm still having to move the does to cages to kindle, but they are producing well and are much happier in a social environment.  

Emily in NC


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## waynesgarden (Dec 14, 2009)

Would this pen provide shelter from the elements? Would the bunnies be protected from predators?

Don't know where you live, but the buns can't be left unprotected in the open like range cattle.

Wayne


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## kelsystar (Dec 28, 2009)

It seems that protein brings the fryers up to weight faster. Not much protein in grass.

I know Polyface pastures its fryers in moveable pens. If rabbits are left too long on one patch of grass, they decimate it.


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## Bunnylady (Dec 28, 2009)

maidservant said:
			
		

> rabbits can breed at 4 weeks old.  It's rare, but possible.
> 
> Emily in NC


Can you document this? 

I've been breeding rabbits for about 20 years. I have known a lot of rabbit breeders, and believe me, they are the talkin'-est people you'll ever meet! Between my own experience, what I've read, and word of mouth, the youngest (productive) breeding I've ever heard of was at  about 12 weeks. They can breed immediately after kindling, which means they can produce litters almost every four weeks. Maybe this is what you meant?  I have seen mounting behavior in rabbits as young as 5-6 weeks, but they weren't anywhere near sexually mature. Most people (at least, those that aren't producing commercial fryers) don't even wean babies until they are at least 5-6 weeks old. If you could cite a source for this information, I really would appreciate it. I see many odd things that get passed on as "facts" on-line, and this just seems a little too weird to me. 

In addition to protection from the elements and predators, rabbits need cover to feel secure. Rabbits are terrified of things that flap overhead, and things that slither. Living on the ground puts them where they can pick up diseases and parasites from wild rabbits and other wildlife, so one would need to be very vigilant for signs of illness, and react very quickly to prevent its spread to the others in the pen.


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## maidservant (Dec 28, 2009)

I have personally had a 4 week old buck kit breed his mother.  Her cage was not near anyone else's, so no oops, and their cages are locked, and I'm the only one with a key.  She is my pet/breeder producer too, and I ended up having to use the litter from the youngster for meat because they weren't up to my standards.  I doubt that a 4 week old female can get pregnant, but I honestly wouldn't put it past the little things.  

Being a biology major, I've done my fair share of citing other peoples work, and frankly, I hate it.  I want to see it and try it for myself before I accept it as fact.  So in this instance, I am citing myself.  I can even tell you when the little male was born if you'd like that information.  January 29, 2007, to my standard rex harlequin doe, Yoshie, bred with Precious, a grey magpie standard rex buck.  She had 7 live kits and a beautiful nest.  They happened to be born on my birthday.  She was indoors from the time of kindling until after the following litter was weaned.  No other rabbits were indoors except for her kits.  The next litter was born on March 28, 2007.  She had 9 kits and a great nest again.  

I always give my does a 2-4 week break between weaning a litter and getting bred again.  My rabbits produce meat for me, and I don't need as much meat as a more intensive breeding program would provide.  

I'm not trying to sound like I'm arguing with you, just stating the facts, plain and simple.  I keep very good records for productivity sake, and also when I sale a rabbit, it's good to be able to pull up their pedegree and breeding history as well as their genetic profile.


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## Bunnylady (Dec 29, 2009)

maidservant, I salute you for your record keeping. It seems like a lot of people just can't be bothered. Over the years, I have had several rabbits that won legs a-plenty, but couldn't be granded because their pedigrees weren't complete. Keeping track of these things doesn't only benefit you, it's a courtesy to the people further down the line, too.

I totally agree with you, there is nothing like personal experience. They are your rabbits, so you know better than anyone else what's happening with them. And I don't mean to be arguing with you, either, but I have a bit of trouble accepting a rabbit that becomes reproductively viable fully 10 weeks earlier than the 14 weeks usually stated for larger-breed bucks (some people will tell you that smaller breeds mature faster. I don't care whether they do or not, I won't breed a doe before 6 months of age, regardless of her breed.) May I propose an alternate scenario?

Rabbit reproductive systems are amazing. They employ a number of rather unconventional strategies, including induced ovulation, resorption and delayed implantation. It is even possible for a doe to carry on two separate pregnancies, from two different matings, and with different due dates. I had a Jersey Wooly doe that kindled one litter, and then had a second litter 10 days later. Sorry, I didn't document this, it was about 18 years ago and I had other things to think about (like working two jobs!)

You said that your doe was not exposed to a buck after the first litter was born. How about during the period between when the first litter was conceived, and when they were born? Most does won't accept service when they are already bred, but some will, particularly if they only conceived on one side. If your doe bred when she was already pregnant with litter #1, the stress of carrying 7 kits, and then nursing them, _might_ have been enough to cause her to keep this second litter in a state of suspended development until the first litter was weaned. Whether you removed litter #1 at that time or not, their demands on the doe lessen considerably at 4 weeks, so that explains the timing of the second litter. At this point, it's all academic, but this hypothesis seems (to me, at least) a bit more in line with what know and can verify.


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## maidservant (Dec 29, 2009)

She was only bred once to the male, I wanted to see how viable he was with only one breeding.  

I do agree with not breeding a doe below 6 months of age, and I would never breed a younger animal on purpose.  It doesn't affect males that much, and I have bred my adult does to a 5 month old buck before, but never vice versa.  If a doe is bred before her 6 month mark, the pregnancy could stunt her growth, or the kits may be too big for her to have, therefore putting her life at risk.  

I have a couple does that will not breed, no matter what I do, so they are in a colony.  There is one buck who is supposed to be in the colony, but he keeps squeezing out.  Not a bother, he doesn't eat much, squeezes back in when he wants to be with the girls, and knows to hide when the chickens sound the alarm (hawk).  I figure that if being in a colony will get those does bred, so be it, if not, at least they can enjoy their lives.  Two of the females from the colony have already had kits, 2 days apart.  I did move them back to suspended cages for them to kindle so I wouldn't lose any kits due to flooding.  One had 5, the other 4.  Decent considering both of them are nearly 5 years old and it's winter.  

I love working out genetics when I have the time, call it an absurd hobby, lol.  

Emily in NC


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## Goatzilla (Dec 29, 2009)

Since you say that you actually had a buck breed a doe at 4 weeks old, I certainly won't argue with you. I will say this though. You describe the event as rare, and warn about it, but I would say that such an occurance is way beyond rare, and really shouldn't be of concern to the average breeder.

Over the years I have probably raised well over 2000 litters, and most offspring were housed together in some form or another for up to 12 weeks or so, and I never had an accidental breeding from a 4 week old rabbit, or for that matter, none that I know of up through that 12 week period. I have also exhibited rabbits over the years and had contact and conversations with hundreds of other breeders, and have never heard of a rabbit being sexually mature at that age. If there was a legitamate threat of accidental breedings at 4 weeks, all breeders would have to wean and separate all offspring at 3 weeks old, which is simply not done for numerous reasons.

I'm not saying that it's not possible, but I'd say that it's about as probable as getting hit by lightning while standing in line to cash in your million dollar lottery ticket, and nothing that I would worry about.


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## waynesgarden (Dec 29, 2009)

Off topic: The youngest human to give birth was a five year old girl from Peru.

Since I've never weaned bunnies before 5 weeks, I think breeding activity at the young age of four weeks will be officially added to my list of things to never worry about. Thanks for the warning, though.

Wayne


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## Goatzilla (Dec 30, 2009)

Thanks Wayne. I will now have to spend eternity trying to erase that first little tidbit of information that you provided from my memory. LOL!





			
				waynesgarden said:
			
		

> Off topic: The youngest human to give birth was a five year old girl from Peru.
> 
> Since I've never weaned bunnies before 5 weeks, I think breeding activity at the young age of four weeks will be officially added to my list of things to never worry about. Thanks for the warning, though.
> 
> Wayne


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## chinbunny1 (Feb 14, 2010)

maidservant said:
			
		

> I have personally had a 4 week old buck kit breed his mother.  Her cage was not near anyone else's, so no oops, and their cages are locked, and I'm the only one with a key.  She is my pet/breeder producer too, and I ended up having to use the litter from the youngster for meat because they weren't up to my standards.  I doubt that a 4 week old female can get pregnant, but I honestly wouldn't put it past the little things.
> 
> Being a biology major, I've done my fair share of citing other peoples work, and frankly, I hate it.  I want to see it and try it for myself before I accept it as fact.  So in this instance, I am citing myself.  I can even tell you when the little male was born if you'd like that information.  January 29, 2007, to my standard rex harlequin doe, Yoshie, bred with Precious, a grey magpie standard rex buck.  She had 7 live kits and a beautiful nest.  They happened to be born on my birthday.  She was indoors from the time of kindling until after the following litter was weaned.  No other rabbits were indoors except for her kits.  The next litter was born on March 28, 2007.  She had 9 kits and a great nest again.
> 
> ...


huh I have never had that happen before. 4 week old kits aren't sexually developed enough to breed at that age.


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