# Well, we've done it!



## bloonskiller911 (Mar 7, 2015)

So we now have a LGD (pup) he is 19 weeks old.  I have read every forum on here, especially @Southern by choice's articles.  He is a "Watcher" from what I can tell.  He acts as if I am not there but is very conscious of my wife and daughters and stays close to them and the goats.  The goats are wary of him but I have gotten that calmed down.  I feed them directly next to each other.  The goats can't resist their feed so they have to be close to him.  He is a Great Pyr, but he is off color. (Our family think he is the handsomest guy out there!) Now here come the questions.  First off, he understands, "Uh uh", and will not jump and is very considerate, but he does not know his name, nor will he come if called, he's super laid back. Any advice other than normal for teaching a dog to come?

He will not take food from your hand, which I am happy about, (my daughter's wanted to feed him), he has no food aggression at all!! And on that note, I have three daughters, everything is a pet.  I keep reading stuff that says not to love them, that they are to bond with the goats and sheep, but I want to be able to mess with him and check him regularly.  To my mind that will be easier if he wants to see people.  If he becomes a "daughter guarder" I am not opposed to that either, since are oldest is 13!! Is there anything wrong with him being attached to both goats and children?

Are there any tips that any one would offer me at this time?  He is with our goats only but they usually run with the sheep, will it be a big adjustment for him to be with the sheep also when the goats are on pasture? will he simply ignore them? or will be also guard them too?

I plan on keeping this thread going with anything, and everything that is going on, so if you watch this be prepared to be bombarded with questions as we go! 


Here is Winston!


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 7, 2015)

Congrats! Hopefully @Southern by choice will have some advice for you.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 7, 2015)

_"off color Pyr"   _NOT! 
He is although a *beautiful gorgeous Pyr cross*! The brindle is a dead give away. Pyr's do not carry a brindle gene. 



bloonskiller911 said:


> I keep reading stuff that says not to love them, that they are to bond with the goats and sheep, but I want to be able to mess with him and check him regularly.



LOVE your dog!  We are a family of 11. All our dogs are loved on and we teach and promote it. The key really is to allow the dogs to be full time with the livestock so they know and understand where their place is. Routine is important. We promote taking the dog out of the field and acclimating to other environments like a visit to the house for 15-20 minutes or so. Yet PLEASE do not do this willy nilly. For young dogs we use their energy time for this and or alo taking them out for some obedience. Not regular obedience but simple learning how to walk on leash, sit, stay (subjective) The goal isn't to have an "obedience dog" you are trying to get a CD or a CDX on but a controllable dog that you are building trust with.

When you all go out the the goats and sheep just keep in mind the dog will need to see that the livestock comes first. Make sure the children and you too  don't spend all your time fussing over him. 

*Expect your dog to succeed!  Trust your dog!* I think many new LGD owners come into it with an attitude of complete negativity expecting the dog to chase, expecting the dog to do bad things... I have seen this over and over... I really believe these dogs pick up on the neurosis of the human!  

Correct quickly and no need to do it harshly. Use correct consistent words. Jumping up say "down" heading toward something or chasing a chicken etc say Uh uh... or something. Do not use the word "No" for everything. Standing at gate and possibly trying to bolt or just getting in the way... "back or back up".

The majority of LGD's even pups do not start out chasing livestock.  I would however recommend a 30 ft training lead for working the dog for any areas that may creep up so there is exact correlation.

I am NOT a believer in taking LGD's for walks. I don't even like it when people "walk" them on lead around the inside perimeter fencing. Doing about 2 weeks of basic obedience 15 minutes a day or walk on lead, sit, down  with a short stay is all you really will ever need. Obedience should be done outside of livestock fence if possible. Controlled, same time of day. 

He will learn his name as you continue to use it and do a few days of obedience.

Because you just got him do not start this yet. He needs to first acclimate to his field and environment and that needs to become his Home.

Bonding schmonding... dogs are smart and have the ability to bond with more than one thing and the term bonding is overused. Some bonds bond to territory, some the actual animals.
With our LGD's some are territory and some are specific to livestock. The versatlity of "Amy" (F PYR) is great she can go anywhere with any group  at anytime. She is not bondy with any particular livestock which is good for me as she will be with the dairy does but if I need her far away and in with bucks she goes and guards there. Callie can go anywhere (F Anatolian) but she is really all about her Kikos. She doesn't care which field or where as long as it is her Kikos and she doesn't like any other dogs in with them except D(M pyr) and Tiggs(M Anatolian) Badger is a small goat" lover he likes the dairy does and loves their babies. He also is one to be such a creature of habit he never gets moved from his field. These are different LGD's so I have given a few examples.

Just don't bring confusion. Right now him properly adjusting and "bonding" with his charges/territory is important. 

Congrats!

So why do you think he is a watcher?


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## bloonskiller911 (Mar 7, 2015)

I think he is a watcher form reading a lot of your posts about the evaluations.  He lies alert watching the goats.  If he thinks that there is something going on, such as a loud sound or unusual happening. he first checks the goats and then focuses in on the what ever the disturbance is. He will stand up, and give a few sharp barks, investigate, and then back to his post.  We had this happen yesterday.  A coffee can fell and made a banging, his ears perked but he moved his head to the goats.  He stood up and saw that they were there and didn't seem to be in distress, moved over to the coffee can saw it was nothing and went back.  I haven't seen him patrol at all, other than when he wants to go poop! He has to find the perfect spot.


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## bloonskiller911 (Mar 7, 2015)

The goal isn't to have an "obedience dog" you are trying to get a CD or a CDX on but a controllable dog that you are building trust with.  @Southern by choice what do you mean by CD or CDX?


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 7, 2015)

They are titles a dog can earn in the show ring, I believe they mean the following:

CD = companion dog

CDX = companion dog excellent


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## Southern by choice (Mar 7, 2015)

bloonskiller911 said:


> what do you mean by CD or CDX?



These are AKC titles given to dogs that attain a certain level of obedience.
Basically they are certificates awarded by accomplishing certain requirements. It is based on a point system ... blah blah blah (LOL)

*CD* = *C*ompanion *D*og
*CDX*= after a CD has been earned the dog may advance to a higher level and earn a *C*ompanion *D*og *E*xcellent  from there they may advance to a 
*UD*= *U*tility *D*og


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## Southern by choice (Mar 7, 2015)

LOL we were posting at the same time Hens and Roos!


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 7, 2015)

, I knew you would have more information as well


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## bloonskiller911 (Mar 13, 2015)

so we are having a grea time with Winston!!  Of course he is in love with our youngest and I don't know if it is the best thing to have a 3 yo train a dog!!! but he listens to her best and she is very good at taking directions!!  He really is a great dog and is learning very quickly.  we taking him for a walk everyday around our property, not on a leash, and he respond very well to commands.  Thanks so much for reminding me not to use the same command for "no"  we haven't used it for him at all which well when you are telling little girls "No!"

here he is with his "trainer"


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## Southern by choice (Mar 13, 2015)

That is so adorable!  I love how these giant oafy dogs can be so gentle around little ones. Treasures indeed!
Glad the children are loving him. Makes the heart smile!

I LOVE his face!

How is he doing with the goats? The kids (goat-kids that is)?
Sheep and lambs? Has he been around any poultry yet?


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## bloonskiller911 (Mar 13, 2015)

He is ignored by the goats, so far They still haven't bonded yet.  Although the kid is interested in him but her mama will not let her play.  we have one more doe to kid so hopefully this goes smoothly, and we can get the kid/s interested in him very early on, and him to them.  the sheep just watch him so far.  we walk him out with them each day so they are getting used to him.  He is around geese and ducks each day that we walk, they stay at the barn. we have always been with him when he is around him, but I have never seen him pay any attention, even when he has walked right through them and they scattered.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 13, 2015)

Sound like a good boy!

Don't worry about the adult goats not "bonding" yet.
As far as the kids, you don't want any playing with kids. This is the hard part as bouncy baby kids want to play and a LGD pup should NEVER be allowed to play with them. That doesn't promote bonding but does promote chasing and bad behavior. The kids may play with the dog, but the dog may NOT play back. Any play behavior from Winston needs corrected immediately. If the kids pounce and come up that is great just he cannot do any playful behavior back.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Mar 13, 2015)

Winston is beautiful - love his markings.  It sounds like you have a great LGD in the making.  I wouldn't be concerned about the adult goats bonding either.  When they haven't been around LGDs, it takes them awhile to get how it all works.  A few months down the road, you will see how they respond when he 'sounds the alarm,' and how they seek his protection.


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## bloonskiller911 (Mar 13, 2015)

@Southern by choice, he hasn't played at all, she just wants to play with him.  he lays there, with his head alert as she tries to smell on him and bounces around.  I need to be more specific with my descriptions. sorry.


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## Southern by choice (Mar 14, 2015)

bloonskiller911 said:


> @Southern by choice, he hasn't played at all, she just wants to play with him.  he lays there, with his head alert as she tries to smell on him and bounces around.  I need to be more specific with my descriptions. sorry.



Sorry @bloonskiller911  I think that was me, not you. I should have worded that better. It didn't sound like he was doing anything wrong I was thinking more along the lines of many breeders and new LGD owners think that somehow getting kids and LGD pups to play will promote bonding and it doesn't LOL it promotes bad behavior. 
It sounds like Winston is being a good dog!  When the kids run and jump on the dogs that is great, more importantly is the dog allowing it and not playing back.

I bet the family is just in love with him! He has a smoochie face! (IOW- I want to smooch all over that face)


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## bloonskiller911 (Mar 17, 2015)

I have a question for you @Southern by choice, he wants my children so bad.  I have been having a hard time to keep him from trying to climb the fence to them when we are working at the barn.  He has jumped up maybe once, but a firm "down" and he stopped.  but I noticed when the girls were playing tag he chased  along with them.  he didn't seem to engage, but he was running along with them.  when I told him "uh-uh" he looked at me like these are my kids though and just stood there.  should I allow him to run with the kids as long as he doesn't play for exercise?


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## Southern by choice (Mar 17, 2015)

I would not. When we are raising up dogs we do not allow children to run in the field. For a couple of reasons. The field is not the children's play place and two it leads to the play/chase behaviors.
This also can present problems if you have other peoples children over. Dogs generally do not like when "others" go in their field and start running, their instinct even at a young age can cause them to run after and knock a child down. As they mature they see this as a person chasing their livestock. Their owners (including your children) will not be seen as a threat as the dog matures. 

Of course not all dogs do these things. Many will tell you "I have never had a problem blah blah blah...."  all the way up until the day there is a problem. Because he is young and you are working with him best to have the field be his field and the yard be for the children.

Remind the children that you know how much they love him and how great they are doing with the pup but that it is good to set limits and allow Winston to become a guardian. Winston will need to learn the art of boredom. Just because he wants the attention doesn't mean he should have it all the time. Working in the field or around the barn with him there is fine but there must be some ignoring going on too. 

So glad you all are loving him so much. They sure do steal your heart.


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## Latestarter (Oct 25, 2015)

Ummm can we please have an update with some pictures of Winston? He was so handsome/beautiful as a pup, I'd love to see what he looks like now. How has he worked out as a guardian for your flocks? Thanks in advance!


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## bloonskiller911 (Oct 25, 2015)

He's a good dog.  We've hit a few bumps and snags (chasing mainly, but also mounting goats) but nothing that work on our part hasn't helped.  I need to get some good pictures of him. I will try and get some updated pictures of him this week.


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## Baymule (Oct 25, 2015)

Yes, new pic please!


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## Latestarter (Jan 29, 2017)

Well, the initial puppy pictures of Winston popped up on the marquee... You haven't been on in a while and I know you had some issues back there a ways that I hope are all fixed and settled now. Hope all is well with you and yours. Hope you'll come back and give us an update on your boy.


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