# Fair Prices?



## USpony (Feb 9, 2017)

The price I was quoted by an amish farmer for a 20 month old, bred, Dexter/Jersey heifer was $2500.  She is a red brindle color (not that color matters much to me), but they are not sure if she was bred to the mini bull or to the white faced bull they used to have running around.  She is unregistered.

This same farmer also has a gorgeous 6 month old, purebred, mini jersey heifer he is asking $3000 for.  As far as I know, she is also unregistered.  I tried to ask everything I could think of but I forgot to ask about registered status.

Do these prices seem fair?  They seem a little high to me, but if I can ask these same prices for animals I produce it would be worth it.  Both animals mentioned are naturally polled and are from the same 5 gallon a day mother.


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## Poka_Doodle (Feb 9, 2017)

I don't have cows but I will tag a few that most likely do know.
@WildRoseBeef @cjc @farmerjan


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 9, 2017)

You are paying a *very high* price for the novelty of the breeds.


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## promiseacres (Feb 9, 2017)

Yes that sounds very high... Amish love to increase prices to the "English "


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## AClark (Feb 9, 2017)

That seems high to me - there's a pair of Dexters on my local CL for $1600 for both, and there's a cow bred to another Dexter on there for $800. So yeah, $2500-3000 is pretty out there. But then again I live where cattle are the main agricultural business.


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## NH homesteader (Feb 9, 2017)

Those prices are more fair if you lived in NH! I'm seeing mini cows open for $3,500 and Dexters around $1,900. But they are all registered. That was just a quick search, though. I just saw that mini cattle give 1-3 gallons/day? If this is accurate, it would be much less expense to have a couple of large breed dairy goats, maybe Saanen or Nubian. 

Anyway, I'm not a cattle person, so what is a mini jersey? Jersey crossed with what?


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## greybeard (Feb 9, 2017)

USpony said:


> The price I was quoted by an amish farmer for a 20 month old, bred, Dexter/Jersey heifer was $2500.  She is a red brindle color (not that color matters much to me), but they are not sure if she was bred to the mini bull or to the white faced bull they used to have running around.  She is unregistered.
> 
> This same farmer also has a gorgeous 6 month old, purebred, mini jersey heifer he is asking $3000 for.  As far as I know, she is also unregistered.  I tried to ask everything I could think of but I forgot to ask about registered status.
> 
> Do these prices seem fair?  They seem a little high to me, but if I can ask these same prices for animals I produce it would be worth it.  Both animals mentioned are naturally polled and are from the same 5 gallon a day mother.


WAY too high in both instances IMO. Even for a bred cow that has already proven herself to be able to calve alone and raise it.
$3000 is what a good, but not exceptional purebred bull is costing currently. Cattle prices across the board are very much down right now compared to 18 months ago.
As far as you being able to ask the same prices--yes you can, but like everything else for sale, they're only worth whatever any given buyer is willing to give for them.
Just as an example, I bought 4 young purebred but not registered or bred Beefmaster heifers in 2012 for $650 each. Age 7-9 months.

Price example:
Here's a 3-in-one Registered Dexter momma, with a calf by her side and already bred back for $1500 negotiable.





http://www.cattlerange.com/610C333-201/610C333-201.html

Full size Jersey and Holstein bred heifers--$1200 each.
http://www.cattlerange.com/609C106-201/609C106-201.html#Seller-Info


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## mysunwolf (Feb 9, 2017)

It's the miniature Jersey that brings the price up. Anytime mini Jersey is crossed in, the price of the cattle will be higher as they are considered a speciality breed (think Kunekunes of the cow world).

Where we are, Dexters are maybe $600-$800 for a heifer, $1000 for a mature cow in milk.
Full-sized Jerseys and other dairy cattle are usually $1200-$1500 for a mature cow in milk.
Full bred miniature Jerseys tend to be $1200-$2000 for a heifer, and $2000-$2500 for a mature cow in milk.


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## greybeard (Feb 9, 2017)

> The Miniature Jersey will typically give 1-1.5 gallons of milk per day, in the height of production


As I said, anything for sale is only worth what any buyer is willing to give.


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## NH homesteader (Feb 9, 2017)

Wow that's an expensive gallon of milk... Yeah I would go with goats or a full size cow.


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## babsbag (Feb 9, 2017)

a miniature Jersey should give closer to 4 gallons a day.


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## greybeard (Feb 9, 2017)

But does that mini gallon bring twice as much $$ per gallon?


babsbag said:


> a miniature Jersey should give closer to 4 gallons a day.


Same as a full size Jersey?
 8.6 lbs per gallon is the industry standard isn't it?
Jersey: *12,699 lbs of milk per year.*
"Assuming" 365 days of production, that is 35 lbs/day.
35lbs ÷ 8.6=4.04 gal/day.
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~puk/cow/milk.html


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## NH homesteader (Feb 9, 2017)

I thought Jerseys gave 8 gallons/day. Hey where's @farmerjan when you need her? Lol


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## TAH (Feb 9, 2017)

We almost got a jersey that milked 7-8-gallons a day.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 9, 2017)

Did anyone read the story about the Holstein that just set a record ?
I think it was 77,000 lbs
I remember it worked out to 25 gallons per day 
And that farms herd average is 44,000 I think


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## NH homesteader (Feb 9, 2017)

that poor cow! She must be exhausted!


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## TAH (Feb 9, 2017)




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## OneFineAcre (Feb 9, 2017)

NH homesteader said:


> that poor cow! She must be exhausted!



There was a pic of her in the story I read
Of course we raise goats but my wife worked at the dairy at NC State which had Holsteins and she was in some dairy judging group too
Her conformation was excellent
If she were a goat she would be a 92 EEEE

ETA

I bet the price of semen straws from her sire and any of her male offspring just went up


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## babsbag (Feb 9, 2017)

@greybeard  Don't they give cows two months off like they do goats? Not sure what they would do to the math. I was just browsing around forums to look at prices and saw a lot of people saying that the mini Jersey gave 3.5-4 gallons a day.


This says 17,152 lbs.  but that still isn't 8. So 

http://www.usjersey.com/Portals/0/AJCA/2_Docs/WhyJerseys2013.pdf


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 9, 2017)

Not to get into the math on this but really the price is really the novelty factor
To me a mini Jersey could be had a lot cheaper it would just be called a Sannen or an Alpine
But if you want what you want and you can afford the price then go for it


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## greybeard (Feb 9, 2017)

> @greybeard Don't they give cows two months off like they do goats?



I'm not a dairy person, but I think they do, which is why I used quotations in my sentence.



> "Assuming" 365 days of production..



The chart I posted a link to is using average yearly production  for each breed. Some individuals will be higher of course... some will be lower.


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## babsbag (Feb 9, 2017)

However, Jerseys have super high butterfat so they really can't compete with a goat in that aspect. I personally would love a small cow for whipped cream and butter. But not at that price.


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 9, 2017)

babsbag said:


> However, Jerseys have super high butterfat so they really can't compete with a goat in that aspect. I personally would love a small cow for whipped cream and butter. But not at that price.



Yeah
I don't think the OP has a lot
Of experience with livestock but
Maybe I'm wrong
I hate to say this but maybe before you spend 3 Grand for a mini jersey you could ease into dairy animals with a couple of $300 Alpines or Sannens
The learning curve is less expensive


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## farmerjan (Feb 9, 2017)

Hey guys, sorry, I was testing for the last 2 days and hurt so much I can barely walk besides being REALLY TIRED.  Got up at 2:15 this a.m. to be in a barn by 3:30 to set up to milk at 4:00, 70 cows,done and left about 7:30;  and then tested a 240 cow herd this afternoon and am a  walking  zombie  right now. Just got in about 9 p.m.. On top of the fact it was 53* at 3 a.m. and 30*at 9 a.m. and down to 24* at 9 p.m. and the wind is blowing like it was going to be a blizzard but the skies are clearing...Talk about PNUEMONIA weather....

Okay.  My opinion.... WAY OVERPRICED.  Yeah, these mini breeds are supposed to be all the rage.... remember when ostriches were   "THE THING"  ????  Then EMU'S .  I have next to no experience with any of the mini breeds except they are "CUTE"... and I am sure they have a place in the scheme of things;  not here, and not practical in my opinion.

So that said; on an average a good holstein will make 25-35,000 lbs a year on a normal 2x a day milking. At 8.6 lbs per gal as GB said, that is Alot of milk for any household. Say 11-12 gal per 100 lbs for round figures.  There are some huge records, and  most are made on 3x or even 4x milking and some are made on cows using the robots and they can go in to be milked as often as they want.  Most high producers will go in an average of 3-4x a day because they are getting feed in there and they like the relief of the milk being taken out more often.  Think beef calf nursing often all day...or like the kids and lambs that stay with their mommas.  Those cows making those huge records are also eating an average of OVER 100 lbs. roughage - hay, silage etc.- plus grain.  I'm talking costing over $15.00 per cow per day, just for feed, and that is figuring that this is "bulk"  feed prices since the farmer is making all his own feed.... 
I have tested alot that will make over 100 lbs a day for 2 to 6 months when they first come fresh.  The farm I tested today had 27 that were averaging 100 to 140 lbs a day right now. Most will peak between 60 and 120 days then gradually drop off.
Most jerseys that I test will make 15,000 lbs a year or more.  Avg 50 lbs day/ for 305 day lactation.  That's 10 months milking, 2 months rest/dry.  It varies.  In the beginning they will make 50-75 lbs a day, by dry off time they are down to 20lbs a day.
Feed, weather, temps,  all contribute to the differences from one farm to another.  Silage/grain/hay as opposed to a grass/hay/grazing diet...
If you feed alot of grain, they will make more.  The cost per gal will increase as the cost of the "inputs" increases. 
I am satisfied with my cows making 2-4 gallons a milking, more when they are fresh and less when they have been in production for awhile.  I do feed grain when they are in the barn, but I don't "pour the feed to them".
Yes there are jerseys that will make 5-8 gallons a day, but not for a long period of time.

The harder you push the production level, the more problems you can have.  Also, most cows that are making alot of milk in the early stages of lactation, are in what we call a "negative energy" balance.  They are literally milking the fat off their back.  They also are less likely to come back in heat, and seldom settle to a first  breeding.  The average time from freshening to successful breeding is 120 days.  The harder you push for milk, the longer it often takes to get them bred back.  

Normal jerseys, will weigh in the 800 to 1000 lb size.  They cost an average of $1,000 bred to calve, or already in milk.  And when you no longer want them/need them or something happens they do have a salvage value of about .45-.55 lb. as a cull cow.  So say $400 back.   I do know that any "mini" sized animal will be at give away prices at the stock yards if you need to sell it for any reason.  And if it is not producing, then it isn't worth "diddly-squat".  They take up space and there is no salvage value to a kill buyer. The size is the biggest deterrent.  

I don't know much about the genetics of the "mini" breeds.  I do know that jerseys and dexters are both normally horned.  There are Polled jersey bulls available, and I have a couple in my semen tank for future breeding as I hate dealing with dehorning.   But the genetics are very limiting.  And you are sacrificing something to get the polled gene since it is not the "natural" state of the breed.  Jerseys usually have next to no calving problems unless they are bred to some kind of huge bull.  Ours calve to a holstein as easily as to an angus.  They spit out a jersey calf.  The cow MOSTLY controls the actual size of the calf, and feeding has a big influence.  You don't feed them to be fat butterballs when they are pregnant.  There are some breeds that I would not want them to be preg to because of the overall size/build of the  breed.
Since I don't know the mini-jerseys, I can't say but I would think that averaging 4 gal a day  would be pretty good.  Aagain, inputs will determine alot of it.

If it were me, I wouldn't pay over 1000 for a bred jersey or a jersey cow in milk. You can buy a registered jersey heifer at a state sale for little over 1000.   The cattle markets are way off from 2 years ago and you have to be practical.  A jersey bred to an angus will give you a good calf to raise for the freezer, and if a heifer, she will make enough milk, for the house, and still feed a calf.


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## AClark (Feb 10, 2017)

I don't know how true it is, but I swear I read somewhere that even the Dexter cattle with their mini size, still eat about as much as a full size dairy cow, and give about half the milk. That the feed to milk ratio makes them more of a novelty than as a great milker for a small farm. I did some reading up on them way back before settling on getting goats instead, not just for the feed economy, but the fact that I knew I wouldn't know what to do with 4+ gallons of milk per day.
The only up side I can see to it is if you're afraid you're going to be over run with milk and want something that produces less - in that case, I think I'd get a goat or two, OR you can leave the calf on momma for half the day and then you don't have to bottle feed and can still get plenty of milk, even for a huge family and out of a full size dairy cow.


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## cjc (Feb 10, 2017)

Well...it is what @greybeard said...what is she worth to you? If she was sold at auction by the pound then I think she would go for about $800 even bred. BUT! I have definitely paid $3,000 for a cow with potential. So if she is worth $2,500 to you then that is what she is worth.

To give you an idea of price I paid $1,200 for a pure bred registered Jersey that was 8 months pregnant with a calf that could be registered. My self personally I would pay more for a second time calfer than a heifer in a heart beat. If she is a good cow and one you plan to keep on the farm for yourself then heck, that's what she is worth. I would be lying if I told I didn't pay way over value for a few cows in our herd but at the same time we don't make a dollar on our farm just the healthy tax break the Canadian government gives us on everything else.

So yes, she's over priced for sure but it doesn't mean she is over priced to you or them. If you like her a lot and you plan to keep her for yourself then pay the man.


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## USpony (Feb 10, 2017)

I appreciate getting so many answers to my question.  This sight is golden for a beginner like me.  I had a feeling that amish guy may have been adding on an "English" tax to his price.  That may have been why there was no price listed.  He could change it according to who came to look.  He really saw me coming.

I have no interest in novelty or little because they are cute (big Jerseys are cute too).  What I wanted was a homestead cow that could produce milk on grass for our family.  I thought small cows would be more efficient with their feed.  A gallon a day for us and the rest for the calf is more than enough.  After reading your comments  I have been researching standard sized Jerseys. I found a farm in Atlanta (Dad and me Farm) that sells %100 grass fed milk from standard sized Jerseys.  He only gets 2 gallons a day since he gives no grain, but that could be great type cow for us!  

My plan is evolving as I am learning.  I'll look for a regular sized Jersey when I am ready for a cow.  They are more common and priced more realistically.  Over time I could still breed her down by using small Jersey and Dexter bulls if I wish.  Going to the amish farm was worth it just to be around the cattle and experience the Jersey temperament.


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## USpony (Feb 10, 2017)

I forgot to mention, I have gotten my feet wet with milking because I had a little Nigerian goat I milked.  I sold her before I started nursing school as I knew I wouldn't have time.  Problem was, no one in the family would drink the goat milk but one of my daughters and me.  Her milk was very nice and creamy though.  Also with the cow it will be easier to get the cream for butter and other things.  $1200 for a bred second calf cow with calf as side sounds amazing!  I wonder if I could find one like that?


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## greybeard (Feb 10, 2017)

USpony said:


> experience the Jersey temperament



Did you happen to experience any Jersey bull temperament while you were there?
They can be an eye opener..........


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## cjc (Feb 10, 2017)

greybeard said:


> Did you happen to experience any Jersey bull temperament while you were there?
> They can be an eye opener..........



I have my first jersey bull calf, well recently just turned him into a steer because I honestly have no idea what to do with him. But, he has the funniest personality of all the cows we have ever had. That being said our vet warned me they can be the worst of the worst temperament wise. This is also the only hand raised calf I've had that won't let me touch him.


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## Bruce (Feb 10, 2017)

USpony said:


> but they are not sure if she was bred to the mini bull or to the white faced bull they used to have running around.



I know you've already moved off this but: I know nothing about the reasonable price for the animal, this still turned my head. Bred but they don't know to which bull?? I think I'd rather buy from someone who has some control over their operation.

I didn't do any hard research but had thought that a mini might be a good choice for someone who wants less milk and if raising beef animals, less beef. The kind of people who would buy 1/4 or 1/2 of a full size animal because that is all they need in a year. Easier to handle small animals, right?



farmerjan said:


> remember when ostriches were "THE THING" ???? Then EMU'S


Then alpacas!


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## USpony (Feb 10, 2017)

I agree. He should know what his animals are up to.  My concern with the white faced bull would be size.  It may not have been a mini and I'd be worried about calving problems.  I am off these cows now that I understand I can get into cows by a less expensive route.


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## cheyenne (Jun 8, 2017)

Does anyone know what a fair or good price to by a calf or steer at?


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## Bruce (Jun 8, 2017)

My guess is people will need a lot more information such as where you are located, breed of animal, etc. Since you are asking "steer or calf" I ASSUME you mean a beef animal. Clearly a calf would cost less than an older animal. 

I, personally, have no idea what one would cost no matter how much information you can provide


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## greybeard (Jun 8, 2017)

"Fair" is a subjective term. 
If the seller can get x2 what it would sell for to anyone else, that seller thinks that's fair.
If the buyer can get it for 1/2 what it would cost elsewhere, the buyer thinks that is fair. 

Anywhere from $85 to several hundred $--maybe more, depending on:.
How old?
Breed?
Known Sire pedigree if from registered stock?
Approx weight of the animal at purchase?
From sale barn, private treaty, or off craigslist type listings?
Health of the animal.
How long has it been weaned?
On feed, pasture, or a bottle calf?
Vaccinated, dewormed, checked for diseases prevalent in that area? 
Is it weaned and a yearling and just needs finishing to slaughter weight?


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