# Why Don't My Goat  Act Normal?



## goatdude95 (Jul 3, 2009)

Okay, so i have 4 pygmy goats 3 are 9 months old and the 2 (now 1 ) 3 month old babies have never acted like the older ones when they was babies they don't run across the yard jumping climbing or playing they just sit their and eat and mope around what could be wrong ? the one baby died and the other acts just like it plz help.


----------



## Farmer Kitty (Jul 3, 2009)

I'm sure more info is going to be asked for. 

1. What are you feeding? And how often?

2. Are the stools normal?

3. Do they seem to be running a temp?

4. Other animals they are/have been around and their health.

5. How did the one you lost act and behave?


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 3, 2009)

I feed them an All stock feed for cows goats horses and sheep. I feed them once in the morning i only give them about a scoop and a half for 4 goats because they have a good half acre fence with good grass and hay.
 The one i still have does not seem to be running a temp by the way.

When i got them they was only in a fence with about 12 mom goats
and i have them in with other goats chickens ducks and guineas but they have always acted like this before being in with other animals

But I forgot to mention that both of them are 3 months old and is very very small for their age especially the one the died. When she died she acted very weak she still ate and drank but could not stand very well at all.

They ate grass and drank fine and would run for feed but they just sit their and mope not playful or anything when the guy had them in his fence with the other babies they jumped and played so they have not always been like this. Hope you can help!


----------



## username taken (Jul 3, 2009)

I thought we'd established that they were getting into the chicken feed ...


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 3, 2009)

Well I don't think it is that i had them before i put my chickens out and they still acted like that


----------



## Rockytopsis (Jul 4, 2009)

Have they been wormed?


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 4, 2009)

yup


----------



## Rockytopsis (Jul 4, 2009)

OK they have been wormed. What kind of wormer did you use? Stuff like Safeguard only gets tapeworms.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 4, 2009)

Sounds like coccidiosis to me, from their behavior and the time frame.  It takes a while for cocci to make them sick enough to see signs, then kills them fairly quickly once they take hold.

I'd drench them w/ dimethox, 1 cc per 5 # on the first day, 1cc per 10# days 2-7.  Then retreat in 14 days, and again in 21 days.

Give him calf manna feed and red cell drench to build his blood up. 
Vitamin B shots and Probios will help, too.

Coccidia destroys the lining of the intestines, so that even if they're eating, they can't ABSORB what they eat.
You can take a poop sample in to get it checked for cocci, but I'd bet it's that, or cocci w/ a combo of worms.

(This has been my experience dealing w/ it, we lost 4 kids our first year in goats to cocci b/c I had no idea what it even was...and neither did my vet, then.  We haven't lost a kid in 7 years but I'm not saying it's the ONLY or best way to deal w/ it...just what we do here.)

As always I suggest....research, find a good vet, and keep learning.


----------



## Griffin's Ark (Jul 7, 2009)

I did a quick read through of this post.  I am guessing that the "All Stock" feed is a 12% protein feed.  You need to be feeding 16% protein for the first year at least.  The next thing that is real important is what were the goats being fed prior to you getting them?  Check the feed, make sure it has selenium in it.  Then call a vet and ask for a Bo-SE shot for the reamaining kid.  If that doesn't fix it along with the Coccidiosis treatment then they will both be culled by nature.  Sometimes there is nothing that you can do.  Oh, all that and give a CD and T shot.  See if the kid is chewing cud yet.  If not you can always steal some cud from a healthy goat and give it to the kid.  The swap has to be so fast that it will make their heads spin though.  A cud shouldn't be exposed to air.

Chris


----------



## currycomb (Jul 7, 2009)

the cocci is a good bet. we help prevent it by feeding a medicated goat feed to anything under 1yr old. it is a little more expensive, but the kids thrive on it. the sweet feed just doesn't have what the young ones need,a  balanced ration. we are using ADM goat power. prior to changing feeds, we had sick kids all the time, loosing some too.


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 7, 2009)

A guy at TSC reccomended these products for cocci but idk 

PEN AQUEOUS from durvet

and some goat powder electrolytes will this help at all? 
I bought it and gave them both to her she seems a bit more active but not normal


----------



## lilhill (Jul 7, 2009)

Pen Aqueous is penicillin and what you need if you're dealing with Cocci is a sulfar drug, like Di-Methox, not penicillin.  You can order it online at Jeffers Livestock or Hoggers Goat Supply.  I use the Di-Methox 40%.  You draw it up in a syringe with a needle, remove the needle and give it orally.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 7, 2009)

I can't believe the idiot recommended that... 
I also work at a TSC and we don't carry anything that will treat cocci.  
Some stores carry a deccox feed...but that will only prevent it (if fed at the right rate).
The electrolytes won't hurt, but won't cure it.
Order Dimethox from Jeffers or some other livestock supply.
1 cc per 5# the first day, 1 cc per 10 # days 2-7, repeat in 21 days, and have a fecal ran.


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 7, 2009)

Crap I screwed up there GRRR. Now the goat has crusty eyes and has a blue film in her eyes


----------



## Farmer Kitty (Jul 7, 2009)

goatdude95 said:
			
		

> Crap I screwed up there GRRR. Now the goat has crusty eyes and has a blue film in her eyes


Sounds like pinkeye to me.


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 7, 2009)

Will any of these work? They do not say goats but it might work.

http://hoeggergoatsupply.com/xcart/product.php?productid=3781&cat=0&page=1

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc...CPWXRQB3FU59M9V5LC31JDWND81FBN0&pf_id=0027132

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc...=FCPWXRQB3FU59M9V5LC31JDWND81FBN0&pf_id=16355


----------



## lilhill (Jul 8, 2009)

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=2&pf_id=16324

Here's the Di-Methox 40% link at Jeffers.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 8, 2009)

If her eyes are crusty as well it sounds like Pinkeye.  If they're clouding over she could go blind if you don't act fast.  Get terramycin eye ointment from TSC and smear it on her eyeballs, eyelids, etc.  If you can seperate her and put her in a clean, dry area it would be great.  Apply the ointment daily, twice, until they clear up.  There are lots of different treatments for it but from what I've seen, it just needs to run it's course.
She probably has a weakened immune system from the cocci, and any and every little bug will attack her.  
The di Methox is also an antibiotic.  It will help make her well.
Get some probiotic paste and give it to her once a day for 3-5 days to help get the good bugs in her rumen going again.
A shot of B vitamin once a day won't hurt, either.
Good luck!


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 9, 2009)

So does TSC sell nothing that might work I really don't have the money for the exspensive stuff


----------



## Farmer Kitty (Jul 9, 2009)

Are you treating her for pinkeye? If not, you need to do so immediately or risk her going blind.

As for treatment of the cocci, get what is needed or loose her. I'm sorry but, sometimes even when money is tight, we have to do without other things to treat our sick animals. It's part of having them.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 9, 2009)

The DiMethox (cocci) medicine from Jeffers is only 12$ for the powder.
The eye ointment is maybe 8$ at TSC.

She could go blind if you don't treat the pinkeye....and as long as it's been, she may well anyway.
She WILL die if it's cocci and you don't treat it.  Period.  
Even if she survives, she will always be undersized and puny.

I have to agree w/ F.K., I have 6 dogs, 8 cats, 30 or so goats, one sheep, and many other assorted critters and they ALWAYS get what they need before we do.
It's part of having animals.


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 9, 2009)

Okay I ordered the powder  I thought everyone only meant the shots and they are pretty high


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 10, 2009)

Mix that powder w/ 3 c water.  Shake WELL.
Drench her w/ 1 cc per 5# (if she's 20#, that'd be 4cc) on day one, then 1 cc per 10# for 7 days.  Keep it in the fridge.  Repeat for 5 days in 21 days, and you might want to just repeat it every 21 days for 5 days until after it frosts.
Get some probiotic paste at TSC and give it to her.  A vitamin B shot would help, as would Red Cell a/o Calf Manna daily.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 10, 2009)

PS...if you have other kids, you may as well treat them all....


----------



## cmjust0 (Jul 14, 2009)

Whoa, whoa, whoa..  How did we get to coccidiosis?  

He didn't mention anything about diahrrea, but he did state that they had an appetite...what about that screams coccidiosis?  In my opinion, they're too young and he's not had them long enough to be losing them from _chronic subclinical coccidiosis_, so we've got to be talking acute...right?

I just don't see any reason to suspect coccidiosis -- clinical nor subclinical -- based on what I'm reading..

What we do know is that they're only 12wks old, and he says "when I got them" -- meaning they were shipped within the last month..  From the sound of things, they started acting "mopey" when they arrived...and now one's dead.

Aside from the comment about how it "doesn't seem" to be running a fever, my first guess would be shipping fever -- pneumonia.  I'm guessing that anyone who wouldn't know that sheep-safe "all stock" isn't OK for goats likewise wouldn't recognize the somewhat subtle symptoms of pneumonia, either..

My second guess would actually be zoonotic ataxia, aka "swayback."  He's feeding sheep-safe "all stock," which has no copper, and he said the one that died couldn't stand very well at all..  Zoonotic ataxia is caused by copper deficiency.  

If this goat's even still alive, I'd hit it with some antibiotics -- that Durvet Pen Aqueous that everyone pooh-pooh'd would be better than nothing -- and I'd get it on some real 16% goat feed with copper ASAP..



I mean...coccidiosis?  Really?

Wow..


----------



## username taken (Jul 14, 2009)

Okay, first of all, is the attitude really necessary? 

Second, copper deficiency (which is gonna make a whole lot more sense to this poster than _zoonotic ataxia_ is gonna take longer than 12 wks to begin showing clinical signs, I know that because I've learnt it the hard way, I lost a lot of kids, adults and production because of it. The only way these goatlings would be deficient is if the herd that they came from, including their mothers, was deficient. 

Third, yes, I see signs that make me suspect coccidiosis. Anytime I see young goats (<1 yr old) who are unthrifty, lethargic, not growing well, scruffy coat, etc I suspect coccidiosis. I have been around long enough and seen enough of this to know that coccidiosis doesnt always present with the classic cocci scours. In fact, lot of the time that sign is absent. But cocci is one of the leading causes of ill thrift in young goats, kept in confinement.


----------



## cmjust0 (Jul 15, 2009)

username taken said:
			
		

> Okay, first of all, is the attitude really necessary?


Perhaps not, but it frankly bothered me that, despite the fact that none of the more classic symptoms seemed to be present, nothing besides coccidia was even seriously considered.  On top of that, nobody said a word about the fact that there's ZERO copper in all-stock feed, and that goats absolutely _need_ copper.

"No sheep feed!" is pretty basic Goat 101.

More than anything else, I think I was just a little disappointed in the responses.



			
				ut said:
			
		

> Second, copper deficiency (which is gonna make a whole lot more sense to this poster than _zoonotic ataxia_ is gonna take longer than 12 wks to begin showing clinical signs, I know that because I've learnt it the hard way, I lost a lot of kids, adults and production because of it. The only way these goatlings would be deficient is if the herd that they came from, including their mothers, was deficient.


How do you know they weren't?  It's not something that's commonly recognized, and I'd say it goes undiagnosed far more often than not..

If you were to take a goatling suffering copper insufficiency from a copper deficient herd and proceed to withhold all copper...how long _would_ it take -- in your opinion -- to become copper deficient and begin to develop ataxia?  

I mean...you said yourself that you've lost _kids_ to it.....

In fact...given that you've lost kids to it, and that he plainly posted that there was no copper in his feed...and that they got really weak and couldn't stand...I'm really quite surprised you didn't think of it, too.  



			
				ut said:
			
		

> Third, yes, I see signs that make me suspect coccidiosis. Anytime I see young goats (<1 yr old) who are unthrifty, lethargic, not growing well, scruffy coat, etc I suspect coccidiosis. I have been around long enough and seen enough of this to know that coccidiosis doesnt always present with the classic cocci scours. In fact, lot of the time that sign is absent. But cocci is one of the leading causes of ill thrift in young goats, kept in confinement.


That's fine..  My opinion is that they wouldn't be dead in a matter of days from non-acute, subclinical coccidiosis, because they wouldn't suffer the dehydration and other quick-killing symptoms associated with acute coccidiosis..  My opinion is that they would just persist with ill-thrift and be poor-doers until they _eventually_ keeled over or got better...  That's not my perception of what happened here...and it's just my opinion..

My biggest problem was that -- even though it was clear that the OP didn't really know goats that well -- nobody even mentioned pneumonia..  When I hear "mopey," I immediately think of the hunched over stance of a goat with pneumonia...and nobody even asked for a better description..


----------



## username taken (Jul 15, 2009)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> ut said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can tell you that in my case, the doe herd was fed a nil copper diet for two years before clinical signs appeared, the first of which was ill thrift in the goatlings who grew well until 6 mths old then stagnated; followed by steely wool (these are angoras); the kid deaths were solely from weak newborns and stillbirths. 

So following that timeline, IF this kid has copper deficiency I would expect the herd of origin to have had no copper for at least a year. Now, I might be mistaken, but I believe that the herd that goatdude gets his goats from is a very well established breeder who has been breeding pygmies for a long time, and I think showing them also? Which says to me that it is unlikely the herd of origin is copper deficient. I'm not saying its impossible, but I would think unlikely.


----------



## Roll farms (Jul 15, 2009)

I also suggested he have a fecal ran to try and find out IF cocci was a prob.  

Since Di Meth is also a long-used antibiotic (old timers swear that sulfa drugs were great for shipping fever...) that happens to also work to kill cocci, I thought it was easier to suggest that drug, than confuse him w/ it MIGHT be this or it MIGHT be that...hit them w/ a broad spectrum antibiotic that ALSO kills cocci.  

Just b/c your first thought was pnuemonia, and mine was cocci, doesn't make you right and me wrong...and I still think my POSSIBLE diagnosis is more likely than yours....based on what he described, it sounded like early SUBclinical cocci symptoms, to me.

In my experience, if they're still trying to eat, it's not pnuemonia.  

Pen A won't help cocci, Di Methox will help several things....hmmm...which is the better suggestion?

(The purpose here was to HELP, not belittle or win a peeing contest...But since you seem to want to have one...?)

If he'd described a kid hunched over, no interest in food or affected by other stimuli....then yeah, mebbers I'da suggested pnuemonia.

I mean really?  Pnuemonia?  Pish posh.  (That's sarcasm, mind you...)
Copper deficiency in a kid that young?  I gotta go w/ UT on this one, to me that's really reaching.   It just doesn't usually manifest itself that quickly from what I have seen.  He said they were fine before he got them...doesn't scream "long term copper deficiency" to me, sorry.

It's one thing to suggest "Hey, you might also consider...."  
It's quite another to suggest that folks who've been doing this for a long time, and are trying to help someone in need...are idiots.

In a forum situation, I've found it's best to be kind or quiet, one or the other.

Goatdude:  I still suggest having a fecal ran, and that you do some  research about goat nutrition requirements, common illness symptoms, etc.   Take your goat's temp and get an idea of what it is "normally" so you'll KNOW when something's up.  Listen to their "normal" rumen function, check eyelid color, etc.
Research is free online and fecals are fairly inexpensive.
Good luck and keep us posted, please.


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 16, 2009)

Well She seems to be doing ALOT better lately I have treated her for pink eye and cocci (which I would believe she would have before pnuemonia she fits every problem cocci has) and she seems to be doing alot better.
By the way the one that died was interested in food she just could not make it to the food she was so weak. And I changed my goats diet stupid me was not thinking


----------



## helmstead (Jul 16, 2009)




----------



## Roll farms (Jul 16, 2009)

Yay!
Don't forget to repeat the cocci treatment in 21 days, and if it was me, I'd probably repeat it every 21 days until after a good hard frost.
Thanks for the update, and congrats on making her better!


----------



## lilhill (Jul 17, 2009)

Glad to hear she's better!  Good job!


----------



## goatdude95 (Jul 18, 2009)

We waited to see if she was gonna die before we named her but now that she is well we named her Miracle


----------



## ksalvagno (Jul 18, 2009)

good name for her and very glad to hear she is doing fine.


----------

