# Dairy Doe: Crusted, scabby hock



## Brandywine (Oct 11, 2010)

While milking this morning I found that one of my Saanen cross does has thick whitish scabby crusting all around her left hock.  Very thick and nasty.  It does go down between her toes a little, and there is some above the hock joint, but it is thickest on the hock itself, all the way around.  There is also some on her right hock, but not nearly as advanced.

If I flake off some of this crud, her skin is raw underneath and does bleed a little.

No smell.

No swelling or heat, but it is obviously somewhat painful.

This had to have come up pretty suddenly.  I milk every day, and I'm looking directly at her left hock the whole time.

Web search and search of this forum yields nothing.

What is it?  What do I do?

I haven't treated it with anything, but I did use a little fly spray, as the flies were going for it and they obviously bothered her.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 11, 2010)

Sounds like mites.  

No way to know for sure without sending off a skin scraping, but you just gave pretty much a textbook description of what it would look like.

Personally, I'd give her an injection of 1% injectable ivermectin at the label rate of 1ml/110lbs.  Some folks say to *always* give ivermectin orally, but when I'm dealing with external parasites, I inject it.

There's a good deal of science behind my preference, btw..  If you're interested, I'll elaborate.  

In any case, she won't heal up right away even after the mites die.  The skin will take a while to get back to normal..  In the meantime, I've found that a good vigorous scrubbing (like, till it's raw and angry looking) followed by regular applications of antiseptic moisturizing udder balm makes the goat feel a whole lot better.

If it's *really* starts aggravating her and/or gets really hot and swollen, a shot of banamine can be useful.

Give her another shot of ivermectin in 21 days -- that's apparently the life cycle of mites, and ivermectin won't kill all stages of mites the first time around.  By going back in three weeks and doing it again, though, you're catching all the new hatches and newly matured mites before they can reproduce again.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Oct 11, 2010)

I concur... Poor little girl...


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## Brandywine (Oct 11, 2010)

A friend suggested that it is rain rot, or the goat-hock equivalent.

I have posted photos of the hock here 

I'm going shotgun here.  It was getting to be time for worming anyway, so every goat got a dose of oral ivomec.  I used a steel comb to clean out the worst and thickest of the crusty stuff on Patsy's hock, then swabbed the area with betadine.  And I gave her an IM shot of penicillin, as much to guard against an opportunistic infection as anything.

We don't have a vet who works on small ruminants locally -- otherwise this is gnarly enough that she would have gone in.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Oct 11, 2010)

Brandywine said:
			
		

> A friend suggested that it is rain rot, or the goat-hock equivalent.
> 
> I have posted photos of the hock here
> 
> ...


I've also heard rain rot termed as "strawberry foot rot"  You can try this link.   It may help???   I saw your pics...it just may be??  Worth investagating for sure...Poor girl!  Good luck with her....

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/70600.htm&word=lumpy,wool,fiber,goats


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## cmjust0 (Oct 12, 2010)

Brandywine said:
			
		

> A friend suggested that it is rain rot, or the goat-hock equivalent.
> 
> I have posted photos of the hock here


Mites.  



> I'm going shotgun here.  It was getting to be time for worming anyway, so every goat got a dose of oral ivomec.  I used a steel comb to clean out the worst and thickest of the crusty stuff on Patsy's hock, then swabbed the area with betadine.  And I gave her an IM shot of penicillin, as much to guard against an opportunistic infection as anything.


I think that sounds perfect, except I'd be a little bit worried about the betadine drying it out so much that cracks more..  That's why I use udder balm on my "mitey goats"...to keep the affected area supple and prevent it from cracking further.  It's the cracking and itching that makes the goat miserable.

As for the antibiotic and ivermectin -- that's great.

Like I said, though, I would have injected the ivermectin.  Reason being, the "pharmacokinetic profile" of oral ivermectin in goats is not great..  What that means is that most of it goes straight through the goat without going into the bloodstream..

If it doesn't hit the bloodstream, it won't kill the mites.

What I've read about oral dosing of ivermectin and mites is that it's hit and miss...but injecting it pretty much gets them every time.  If I were you, I'd definitely go back and SQ her with a few ml's of injectable ivermectin, just to be absolutely sure.



> We don't have a vet who works on small ruminants locally -- otherwise this is gnarly enough that she would have gone in.


Nah...it looks bad, and it probably aggravates the crap out of her, but if you kill those mites, scrub it, disinfect it, and work to keep it supple, she'll show you that she's feeling much better in short order.


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## helmstead (Oct 12, 2010)

FWIW...that's not the hock...it's the fetlock and pastern...  Sorry, couldn't help but correct that one.    The hock is the next joint up.


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## TheSheepGirl (Oct 12, 2010)

I've heard of mites on goats before, but this is the first time I've seen it.

It looks exactly like fur mites on a rabbit. We always used sevin dust for mites on anything. It works really well and is designed for that sort of thing. A good livestock dust or preferably a spray should clear that right up. It would be good to spray on after you disinfect and scrub, because it will have better access to kill the mites.

The ivermac was a good way to go as well since it was time to worm. We use ivermac for treating legmites in our chickens.


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## cmjust0 (Oct 12, 2010)

TheSheepGirl said:
			
		

> It looks exactly like fur mites on a rabbit. We always used sevin dust for mites on anything. It works really well and is designed for that sort of thing. A good livestock dust or preferably a spray should clear that right up. It would be good to spray on after you disinfect and scrub, because it will have better access to kill the mites.


Mites live *in* the skin...not on it, like lice or fleas, etc.  For mites, my experience has been that it's best to get something _in the bloodstream_ rather than relying on something topical.

For what it's worth, I've also found it useful to exclaim "SUCK ON THAT, YOU SCABBY LITTLE B***ARDS!!!" as you withdraw and recap the needle.  Laughing maniacally is optional, but I usually do.

(That last part is purely empirical, based on just a handful of cases.  YMMV.)


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## TheSheepGirl (Oct 12, 2010)

The sprays and powders absorb into the skin to kill the mites. They contain a powerful medication in them that kills the mites. 

Fur mites are found in the skin as well and are treated with these. That's why it helps to scrub and disinfect the skin first.

On the bottle of spray it lists livestock mites specifically as something it kills.

We have had it clear up cases of mites within just a few days. It really works.

I usually treat again in 7-10 days which is the life cycle of the mite and what the bottle says to do. After 21 days there will be mature mites in there again.

I've found that it works and is safer than using ivermac for everything that comes along. It is also specific to just that are and not the entire animal.


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## Brandywine (Oct 12, 2010)

The goat is primarily affected on the rear limb, circumferentially, from the hock joint (superior) or point of hock all the way to her hoof (inferior).

If she was a horse, it would be most correct to say her entire canon bone area was involved.  I've not seen that term applied to goats or, my primary area of anatomical study, dogs.

The macro photographs that came out best were of the distal/inferior part of the affected area, but I assure you, the entire limb from hock joint/point of hock to hoof is affected, as you can see from the first photos.  The crusting was worse higher up, just under the point of the hock.

I did a good scrub today, bucket of warm water and fels naptha and a stiff bristle brush.  This made a rather repulsive goat-crud soup.  Her right leg, which was not nearly as bad, also got a good scrub with a fresh bucket.  She was remarkably tolerant of this, so I think the scrub felt good.  I did slather on the bag balm afterwards.

She already looks better.

I will follow up with an injection of ivomec if she does not continue to improve.  I used up my bottle yesterday, so I won't have any until my order comes in.

I was planning on taking both does to a friend's buck in the next week or so.  How long ought I to wait before exposing other goats to her?

Neither her sister nor their four wethers seem to be affected at all.

It looks much better


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## cmjust0 (Oct 13, 2010)

brandywine said:
			
		

> I did a good scrub today, bucket of warm water and fels naptha and a stiff bristle brush.  This made a rather repulsive goat-crud soup.  Her right leg, which was not nearly as bad, also got a good scrub with a fresh bucket.  She was remarkably tolerant of this, so I think the scrub felt good.  I did slather on the bag balm afterwards.
> 
> She already looks better.


That was my experience also..  She put up a bit of a fight at first, but once I *really* started scrubbing, she just stood there really quietly and let me do whatever I wanted.  To me, it looked like it would have been really painful but I got a strong "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh that's nice" vibe from her..  She seemed to enjoy it.

After all the scabby stuff was gone and I applied the udder balm, what had looked nasty and angry looked more...well, just pink.  She seemed much happier, too.

Mine also got a shot of banamine, which I'm sure helped with the inflammation and pain.


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