# second breeding and still no kits!



## couchhound274 (May 31, 2013)

This is the second time ive bred my new Zealand white doe,clover, and still no kits! Its driving me insane!  The first time she made a nest and tgen nothing,  this time no nest even! Im going to give her one more chance, then to freezer camp she goes! On another note; anyone in the new england area have any silver fox rabbits or any colored new Zealands for sale?


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## VickieB (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm pretty new here. My rabbits have their first litter right now (they'll be 4 weeks on Monday) and these are my first rabbits. I am new but I've been learning quite a bit. AnimalMom has answered a lot of my questions, and given me some really good information. Here is something she told me that might be helpful.   


"As rabbits tend to store fat under the skin, as you massage your rabbit feel for how much you skin you can roll between your fingers.  You should have a little/some fat there and can tell by how close or far apart your fingers are.  As you get to know the feel of each of your rabbits you'll get some finger memory as to how each feels.  Your fingers tell you the rabbit's skin is getting loose or tight.  If you notice the rabbit's skin getting loose then up the feed a little, getting tight, then cut back a little.

A problem with does is they have a tendency to store fat around the internal organs and a fatty doe won't get pregnant and could have problems with her uterus later on.  Unfortunately we can't unzip the does, check them out and zip them back up so we have to rely on what we feel when we touch them."


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## animalmom (Jun 1, 2013)

There are lots of reasons your doe isn't producing.  How old is the doe?  How old is the buck?  Did you see a mating occur... the infamous "bunny fall."  Is your doe lifting for the buck?  Maybe you just aren't breeding her at the right time?  

Don't give up hope, yet.  There are some things you may want to consider before freezer camp.

Putting ACV in her drinking water may help getting her receptive.  You may want, if you are not doing so already, to breed her in the morning and then again in the evening -- sometimes the first loving gets her more in the mood and the second loving does the trick.  Do you know how to palpatate -- feel for babies?  This can be done by the second week and if you don't feel the kits then rebreed.  At least this way you are not losing a full month.  I'm not good at palpating, so maybe you could find someone in your area to show you.  Showing you how to do is the best, in my opinion.

Is your doe overweight?  Heavy does don't get pregnant.

There comes a time when the owner has to decide if it is better to just get another doe and/or buck.  It looks like you are already making contingency plans for replacements.  

Don't get mad at Clover, it may not be her fault.  If she has some outstanding genetics, or other qualities that make her desirable, then I'd keep at the breeding program for a few more times.  Problem with summer coming and heat affecting the bucks is eventually going to impact your program unless your rabbits are in air-conditioning.  If that's the case can I move in too? 

Good luck with your Clover.


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## couchhound274 (Jun 1, 2013)

She isnt too heavy,  though she is rather large she doesnt feel fatty though i have cut back her feed. Im horrible at palpating. Her ladt breeding she was in with dudly, my buck, for about three days. Tomorrow she will be rebred (didnt have time today) and we'll see what happens. Dudley was a proven buck as my checkered bunny just had a litter by him. And i always have a plan B. Lol


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## couchhound274 (Jun 2, 2013)

So of course as i went to do my morning feeding and watering, theres clover frantically making a nest... silly tabbit


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## VickieB (Jun 2, 2013)

How is Clover doing? Has she had her babies?


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## couchhound274 (Jun 3, 2013)

Nothing yet and she hasnt pulled any fur. I tried palpating her today but im pretty horrible at it.  Ill givr her a few days more and re breed. If nothing this time she's headed to freezer camp.


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## sawfish99 (Jun 20, 2013)

We are located in Eastern CT and have shifted to American Chinchillas.  When we started, we had 2 NZW does that were the exact same age.  The same thing you are describing happened with one of ours.  One doe bred and had a litter with no problem.  The other would accept breedings, nest, and never have a litter. After 4 failed breedings spread out over 6 months (and the other doe had 2 litters by that point), we sent her to freezer camp.  

When I butchered, it appeared that she had cystic ovaries.  So the lesson we learned was, don't keep wasting time on a rabbit that has failed breedings.  Immediately breed back if there is no litter and cull after 2 or 3.

The only local Silver Fox breeder I knew recently sold out due to a significant family issue. We are possibly buying out another local Am Chin breeder.  Email me at rob@thesawyerfarms.com if you are interested in Am Chins.


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## Citylife (Jun 20, 2013)

couchhound274 said:
			
		

> Her ladt breeding she was in with dudly, my buck, for about three days.  Lol


There are a few reasons you do not want to leave your doe with your buck unattended.  The buck can get very injured by an aggravated doe.  She will bite his business, if you know what I mean.  And can permanently damage him.
You don't see the breeding, so you don't know if it happened.
If she is bred 3 days in a row.............  that is a disaster waiting to happen.  With such a short gestation period and nest box going in at 28 days if she got pregnant 3 days in a row........... that means she got pregnant 3 days in a row!  So, she will potentially be in labor 3 days in a row with kits in different stages of growth.  This can kill all kits and the mother.  It would be like a human getting pregnant every 3 months but still carrying the baby from 3 months or 6 months ago. 
Someone else stated to breed in morning and then evening.  Try that out.  If not good at palpating put her in with a buck after 10 days.  If she is growling at him and nasty or just trying to get away and growling, she is most likely pregnant and get her out of there NOW.  You do not want her to get bred again at 10 days into the pregnancy.  
I have an awesome doe with great lines I am doing this with myself.  As, I want her lines.  She came to me fat, even though the previous owner says she was not.  She was.    I am very greatful most of my does are extremely easy breeders.
I wish the best for you.  This is a great place to get information.


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## VickieB (Jun 20, 2013)

When I got my does 2 had already been bred (that morning). I bred the 2 younger ones about a month later. I put the first one in with the male, waited 3 hours then put the second one in, waited 3 hours again then put the first one back in, waited 3 hours and put in the second one. There was a 6 hour lapse between the breeding for each doe. The second time I put the doe in she was very receptive, I had no problem. 

A couple of weeks later I rebred my older does. This time I gave it a 5 hour lapse between each breeding, making it a 10 hour lapse for each doe. This time around, though, with the second breeding of the day the does were not receptive. Both growled and were not very friendly to the buck. I couldn't figure out what was going on. Later, I read that after a doe is bred she releases her eggs approximately 8 hours later. I may be wrong, but figured they both must have released their eggs, gotten pregnant, therefore were not receptive with the buck the second time around. 

I may be wrong with my thinking, but I've decided to stick with the six hour lapse for breeding the next time to see if the does are more receptive.


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## couchhound274 (Jun 23, 2013)

Just wanted to give you all an update, (Internet's been down for a while) she kindled a week late but gave birth to 4 little white kits that are now just over 2 weeks old! I think she is going to be the bunny that does stuff on her own schedule... just like my dog. She never follows a heat cycle... never its always different. Sometimes a month early a month late. Or anytime in between...


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## animalmom (Jun 24, 2013)

I'm glad your doe had some kits.  You are right... sometimes there are animals, as wells as people, that just walk a different earth than the rest of us.

Keep us posted as to how your kits progress!

Congrats!


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