# Run-in shelter Q's



## lupinfarm (Mar 30, 2010)

Ground is thawed! ... I stuck the stock tank out for Mylie today and went to see if the holes we started digging in the fall for the west field run-in shelter were thawed and they're like BUTTER. 

So I had read on another thread somewhere not to put cement in the holes, should I just stick my poles in and tamp? Orrrr... tamp, then a bit of cement, and then tamp? 

I have 6" round cedar posts that are 12ft long...


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## patandchickens (Mar 30, 2010)

Uh, it would be better to dig new holes, IMHO -- you don't wnat the hole any wider than necessary, and chances are the old ones will have widened (at the same time as filling in) over winter. You want the holes just wide enough to get a tamping device (e.g. piece of 2x4) in beside the post. That way, the undisturbed soil helps keep the post correctly upright.

If this was on swampy land and going to be a largeish (heavy) shed, there is some value to pouring concrete (or setting a large flat rock) *under* the base of the post... that is, pour and let set at least overnight before putting post in hole at all... but if I understand your situation correctly, there is not too much danger of your posts sinking further into the ground LOL

In which case, you are really better off without cement. At best, it does virtually nothing for a decent-sized building; and realistically, it just makes the posts rot faster (water gets trapped between concrete and wood) and can even make them heave worse (by giving frost something to key into), in addition to obviously requiring more $ and labor.

The most important thing IME is to make the holes no bigger than necessary, and tamp the BEJEEBERS out of the fill, every 4" or so, all the way as you fill it in. Add a bit of extra, well tamped, so it is slightly crowned to encourage water to run away. And if some time is likely to pass between setting the posts and actually building the building, it is smart to at least scab the posts together (with some diagonal bracing) so that the posts are less apt to wander off plumb.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## lupinfarm (Mar 30, 2010)

Seriously? That could be an issue. The place the holes are is the best spot. Unfortunately I can't just dig "just wide enough to accomodate the 2x4 and the post" cause we are forced to accomodate enormous boulders that are pretty randomly interspersed in the pasture (underground). I have one hole that is quite a bit wider at the top than at the bottom because of this problem. Maybe I should just cement them in place... This is also the only spot in the pasture that in early early spring when we get some snow, it doesn't get super wet. 

I think we're going to have to cement these posts in.. or something... 

The holes haven't caved in any at all, because they've been covered all winter. They're at 2ft now, I'm not willing to relocate... I might not get 3ft let alone 2ft anywhere else, and right now it looks like we'll get 3ft, maybe even 4ft.


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## ksalvagno (Mar 30, 2010)

I was sorry that we didn't cement our fence posts. We now have problems with them rising up. Unless you are putting in the posts with a post pounder (no hole dug), I think it would be better to put cement in.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 30, 2010)

I agree Ksal, we cemented our fence posts in last year (what few we did, since most of it was buck fence). We also had posts pounded in my lower pasture, but because of our rock they haven't held up super. No biggie lol. We'll live, my solar fencing packs enough of a punch to deter my pony from testing the fence (imagine that! LOL I actually shocked her by accident a few weeks ago by touching the wire, ungrounded, then grounding myself on her LOLLLL).


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## mully (Mar 30, 2010)

If it was a fence post I would say cement them in but a run in shed is a "pole building with at least 6 poles so the building is not going to go anywhere. I have a run in shed like this and the posts are about 30 inches under the ground. You have more frost heave so check around locally.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 30, 2010)

Its not a matter of going deeper, in most cases I can't go any deeper than 3ft because under that is bedrock. It'll have 4 posts, its only a 10x12ft building.


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## patandchickens (Mar 31, 2010)

Well, if those are the holes you have to use, those are the holes you have to use   (Just you might want to think about this for the future, not to dig holes so much in advance of using them). 

I had forgotten about your rock problem.

If your hole depth is limited by bedrock or giant boulders, I would suggest going down til you are *absolutely cleanly on* the rock, and putting a tiny little bit of cement under the post (set the post onto the *wet* cement) to try to minimize the am't of water that gets under there to heave.

As far as stability with shallower holes, if it is a low run-in shed facing away from your typical summer thunderstorm gusts, you may well get away with no problems. But if the shed is going to present more 'sail' to the wind, then you might want to add a few earth anchors to help ensure it stays put. This is not a big deal. You needn't even necessarily buy anything -- just dig a couple more holes (heh heh heh) NOT near your post holes, and put a cinderblock in the bottom of the hole, with a chain wrapped around it and chained to the sill of the shed. Making sure this all gets thoroughly buried again.

I still wouldn't cement the posts, personally. Cement DOES NOT necessarily prevent heaving -- indeed, I have a shed post that is heaving *because* it is set in cement, which the idiot who build it poured to too shallow a depth and frost keys into it. Whereas cement definitely does accelerate rot and make future replacement/repair/moving nearly impossible.

If you DO cement the posts, I would suggest either doing it inside Sonotube (so there is nothing for frost to grab) or keeping the cement to just the very bottommost part of the holes, below the worst of the frost.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## lupinfarm (Mar 31, 2010)

Perhaps I'll go with sono tubes, ... yess... my rock issue LOL.. This field is not so bad as far as rock goes, although we've already hit an enormous boulder, the field Mylie is in right now is awful for rock, so I have a floating shed in there.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 31, 2010)

lupinfarm said:
			
		

> I actually shocked her by accident a few weeks ago by touching the wire, ungrounded, then grounding myself on her LOLLLL).


I did that to Ivan once..  

I was wearing rubber boots and, without thinking, I grabbed right onto a hot wire.  With that much surface area (the entire width of my palm) and that little ground contact (rubber boots), I didn't feel a thing.  

Ivan came up and put his nose to my hand..  I felt a little teeny jolt go through me and heard it snap against his nose..

His mental software crashed and he just went absolutely stone still...his usual response when I scare him somehow.  He won't show me aggression, but doesn't know how to run away...so he just locks up solid.

I let go of the fence and went to console him a little, but he kinda leaned away and flinched his eyes like "Please, boss!  Don't hurt me again!" 

 

I felt pretty terrible.

I explained to him what happened while I gave him pettin's and huggin's....he understood, and forgave me pretty quickly.


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## lupinfarm (Mar 31, 2010)

LOL poor Ivan!

It was worse because I touched Luna's poll with my right hand trying to put a halter on her (with metal clasps) and she took off like I was out to kill her. I've never seen her move so fast, she has bad back legs so you can imagine.. she was GONE. 

I've also shocked myself on it pouring water into the trough, and didn't touch the horses... but when I got shocked they made like racing horses and got the heck out of there. And its just a solar fencer!! But it faces south and gets sun all day long  and there is no tree cover near the fencer so its sun all the time. 

And just the other day I touched the bare wire hook on the electric gate handle (I have an electric gate on the inside of every big metal gate, I'm paranoid my horses are going to end up outside their fields lol) and this time it was the plug in fencer! I thought I was going to die! .. Mylie just about had a heart attack when it happened. 

We decided to make the shed BIGGER. It was originally going to be just 10x10 with 1 side open, but we've made it now 12x16ft with a 5ft section on the front that is enclosed.


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