# Help again *sigh*



## noskiveez (Feb 10, 2011)

Its been a week or so since Buck died. 

My other buck kid is 9-11 weeks. He has a case of the runs. His legs and feet are dirty. 

I think his belly looks fat. I think he feels thin and boney. 

The guy I got them from said its caused by too much grain. 

What do I do? Does this sound right?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 10, 2011)

What kind of grain you feeding them?
Has he been treated for Cocci?
STill on  a bottle?
How long have you had him?

What kind of goat?


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## julieq (Feb 10, 2011)

We need some more detailed information here before we can help out.


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## noskiveez (Feb 10, 2011)

He's a Nigerian. 

I've had him since early December. He was born Nov 30th. I bottle fed him. He's been weaned for about 3 weeks. 

They eat hay and grain (the kind with syrup on it). There are 4 goats (mama in milk with baby, 9 month old doe, and this buck kid). We lost a buck bout a week ago with no real signs of anything wrong. I think he choked on a plastic milk jug lid. Now I'm not so sure. After this buck died I treated them all with LA200. They all get Deccox in their feed. The pen is a bit on the small side but very clean compared to other goat pastures I have seen. They get their pen raked out several times a week. They always have fresh clean water. I clean their water every day. No mold or algee.

To me, he feels skinny. My other goats don't feel boney like him. 

Should I worm him?

The goats I got from these people have had a lot of problems. Pink eye, the runs constantly, snot noses, hacking coughs, etc. Everyone finally seemed healthy then one died. Now this one is sick. I'm so fusterated he's not healthy. The guy said he would give me a doe to replace the buck kid that died but that's not really the point. I just want the problem fixed so i don't have another dead goat (or 4 dead goats)


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm sorry it has been so frustrating for you.  

Other people will jump in and start giving advice.  

You can purchase Corid or Sulfa- dimethoxine to treat the goats for cocci.  I mix mine differently than some of the people on here, so I am sure the will chime in to give their dosages, also.

for coride:

I use corid and mix 2 oz in a 5 gallon pail of water and provide that as the only source of water for the goats for 10 days.  

I also mix 1 cc(per 10lbs of body weight)  of corid into 30cc's of Kaoptin(or pepto-bismo) and add spectam scour halt to the mixture and give this orally to actively scouring goats.  Along with treating them with Pennicillin G.  Can do this twice a day.  




I would also consider giving the kid a teaspoon of baking soda, by either mixing with a little corn syrup, and warm water and using a 3cc sryinge to force feed the kid, or you can make the baking soda into a thick paste and smear it onto the back of his tongue or you can make pea size baking soda balls and place on the back of his tongue like a tums tablet. for bloat.  


If you aren't feeding the goats a goat feed, please switch over to a feed made just for goats, I would recommend a pelleted goat feed with cocci medication in it. If it isn't pelleted some goats will pick out their favorite parts and not eat a balanced ration. make the change over slowly.How are you feeding the goats their grain?

I would recommend getting some free-choice GOAT salt minerals and keep this out all the time for your goats.


As far as worms go, you can have a fecal test done at your vets office to help you determine what you are dealing with, but I wouldn't rush to treat a weak baby with wormers, unless you are sure that is the problem.

If the goats have never been on minerals and you have never given the selenium shots I would recommend a bottle of Bo-Se from you vet.  It is given at the rate of 1cc per 40 lbs.  And can given be given 2 or 3 times a year. 



Sorry for all the information.  Please feel free to ask questions.


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## Lady Jane (Feb 11, 2011)

I can feel and completely understand your frustration. 
Do you know of a vet who would be able to do a fecal check on him for worms? Also, treating to prevent Cocci wouldn't hurt. Here is a link I found helpful about it. 
http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/coccidiosis.htm
It sounds like you are taking really good care of your little goat family. Hang in there.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 11, 2011)

First...weaning is very stressful to them...so whatever they may be carriying may take hold...meaning coccidia...or other worms.  

I would get a fecal done so you know if he has coccidia and treat accordingly.  Important!  

Also the LA200 would throw his very young rumen off..I would give him a shot of Vitamin B and some pro biotics to get that rumen rolling again.

Also I would get some baking soda into him ASAP.  I will generally mix baking soda with some molasses and warm water.  Mine will drink it out of a bowl and they think its the best treat ever!  

Another point I have to bring up is the sweet feed you are feeding him.  I have never found a sweet feed that has amonium chloride in it.  And that is soooooo important for bucks you feed grain to.  Its a preventative for urinary calculi (stones).  Its a must for bucks you feed grain to...so I would switch feed asap.  UC wont cuz the current problem..but you may find you will be running into another once you fix this!  Read about UC lots of info out there and very important.

Is he eating grain/hay????   You may also want to get some CDT Antitoxin in him and allow him to get rid of anything in that gut thats upsetting him.  That will get rid of the toxins in him!   And again baking soda, Vitamin B shot and some pro bios is definatley gonna help!

Good luck...and I would do all this sooner than later...the can get sick real fast...as you are aware!!!  

Keep us posted please!!


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## Roll farms (Feb 11, 2011)

I would have a fecal ran ASAP.  You really need to know what you're dealing with.

If you can't have a fecal done, start treating for coccidia ASAP.

I use DiMethox, 1 cc per 5# day 1, 1cc per 10# days 2-5.  
BUT...if the fecal shows cocci IS the problem, I would treat for a full 21 days to make sure you kill as much as possible.  

Coccidia can damage the intestines and cause kids to never reach their full potential, even when caught early and treated.  

Untreated kids can die.

Medicated feed (w/rumensin or deccox in it) is great...but only has enough medicine to prevent cocci...it won't cure it if they have it, and they have to eat enough to get the medicine up to therapeutic levels.

Because I'm not taking any chances (learned about cocci the hard way - lost kids our 1st year dealing w/ it), I treat our kids w/ DiMethox every 21 days all spring / summer / early fall.

If the fecal shows tapeworms, use a white dewormer, treat for 3 days in a row, and have a repeat fecal ran in 21 days.

If the fecal shows barberpole or stomach worm, use ivomec injectable, but use it orally, like a drench.  1cc per 25#.  I would retreat every 7 days and get a new fecal ran in 21 days.  
Barberpole is nasty and if the ivo doesn't work, you'll need to try a stronger dewormer.

Good luck!


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## PattySh (Feb 11, 2011)

He's a bit young (small) to be blended into a mixed "herd".  We have our little weaned Nig buckling still in the house  in a pen with 2 bottle babies . I know my older ones would hurt him as he's tiny. Could mama or the other doe be hurting him and causing stress?  Has he been vaccinated? How much grain are you feeding, my little buckling only gets 1/2 cup am and pm and has free choice hay and water. He eats alot of hay for his size.  Nigerian babies do get a belly once they develop a rumen, they are wider then my full size kids earier.  I agree that he should have a fecal done. No way of knowing if it's bacterial or parasitical and you don't want to  pump the little guy full of everything. I use corid for coccidia.  I've never seen it mentioned on this site but I've had very good luck with Neomycin Sulfate in drinking water for bacterial enteritis. Make sure to give him some probiotics (natural culture yogurt works) after any medications or if you can steal a healthy goat cud and feed it to him all the better!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 11, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I would have a fecal ran ASAP.  You really need to know what you're dealing with.
> 
> Medicated feed (w/rumensin or deccox in it) is great...but only has enough medicine to prevent cocci...it won't cure it if they have it, and they have to eat enough to get the medicine up to therapeutic levels.


2nd this!! I was just gonna post this next!!  Important point!!  When its in the feed its preventive only...and not enough to cure!!

Hope you can get a fecal done!!


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 11, 2011)

after you get done reading all of the great advice. Just take a deep breath and make a list of suggestions.  

First baking soda atleast 1 teaspoon.

If you can get your hands on C&D antitoxin (not the vaccine)  get a bottle and treat the kid.

Get some vitamin B and treat the kid.

Make sure the kid is able to get to hay(all day) and small amount of grain one or two times a day.

go to your Tractor supply store or co-op and research corid and Sulfa-dimeth and start treating the kid. 

Find a vet in your area and get fecal tests done.


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## noskiveez (Feb 11, 2011)

The didn't find worm or coccida. They have a salt block and have been licking it. I've pepto'd him. This morning when I was out there with him I went to move him and he belched like nothing I have ever heard before. His stomach isn't so fat (I pulled all the hay and grain out last night) and swept every poop pellet and bit of grain out)  he seems much better today. His poop isn't just running out. Its thickened up some. He is up and walking around now. I was feeding sweet feed goat grains. It says goat on the bag. Its like oats and corn in molasses.  

Maybe I was over stuffing them?

Should I feed 2 or 3 times a day instead of leaving them with a bunch of food? 

I haven't vax'd them yet. There is someone else in our podunk town with goats and she wipes out the supplies here. I have to order it and have it delivered. 

I turned my home internet service back on so I could do a lot of research on this. I'm just so stressed over them that I can't sleep.

I read not to use vax's on sick goats so I didn't do any because there is always a problem. I am putting Deccox in the grain. 

The herd was originally one goat that I got from a friend, then she was the little tricolor buck and I went and got him and they gave me the white buck free. He didn't look good but was doing great after we got him and 5 days later they sold me a mama and doe baby. They are rather docile. I only have one real spunky goat and its mostly people she is spunky with.


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## ksalvagno (Feb 11, 2011)

I would keep the hay out for them. Just not the grain for now. Also, I'm not sure about that salt lick. It is a mineral block or strictly salt? Can you find loose goat minerals in your area?

You can leave hay out full time. But when you are ready to feed grain, I would only feed them once or twice a day. Grain is really a supplement and they don't need much unless they are milking.


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## cmjust0 (Feb 11, 2011)

noskiveez said:
			
		

> Should I feed 2 or 3 times a day instead of leaving them with a bunch of food?


Yep -- that was most likely the start of your problem.  

I'd take them off grain for a while and feed plenty of good quality, free-choice hay, then slowly reintroduce it as needed.  I never, ever feed so much grain that they can't clean it up in a matter of just a few minutes..  The only time I'll give them more than maybe 5min worth is if I've got one on the stanchion trimming hooves or something, and then they're usually so aggravated at me that they won't gobble.

Grain isn't "goat food" in the sense that dog food is _dog food_..  Grain is a supplement to regular forage, which consists of browsing, grazing, and eating hay.  Goats do not generally *require* grain unless their regular forage is of low quality.

Edit:  Yeah, pretty much what ksal said in far fewer words.


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