# Doe's first litter all dead, need advice



## Anniewho6 (Feb 18, 2014)

I have a flemish NZ mixed doe that I bred a month ago to a flemish/NZ mixed buck. When breeding the doe seemed upset after the 3rd take. She took another 2 times but became very upset. She was bred in the bucks cage not hers. This was her first breeding and her age was 7 months old.
My husband took her out and put her back into her cage where she decided to attack my husband and bit him. The following days after she would still act aggressive grunting and pawing at anyone who would reach into her cage. During the whole month she did not calm down. I was hoping she would be she did not. She stopped grunting be continued to paw at us if we attempted to touch her.
So early this morning before 7 am she kindled. I checked her at 7:10 and she had 10 dead kits. Some had sacks still attached and some didn't. She didn't puller her hair out and I found her eating one so 11 total. I thought I would try to revive them since I heard if they look dead they still might have a chance. I was doubtful because I saw no sign of life in any of them. I was able to warm their bodies but still no sign of breathing or moving. After about an hr I gave up and went back to the doe and found she had pulled out some of her hair outside of the box. She was now inside the box/with the hay. 
I removed her to see if she had kindled any more but found nothing. I feel she was of course inexperienced and confused. 
*My advice needed is:*
*I would like to know how long do I wait to re-breed?  Since most of you have experience with new mothers can this be a normal behavior for a new doe? I have mixed feelings and I'm not sure if I should even try to re-breed. *
My other two does had normal deliveries and all their kits lived and they were new mothers. Also keep in mind I'm raising rabbits for meat not pets.

Thank you for your advice. 
Ann


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 18, 2014)

Sorry to hear this , this seems to be common with some 1st timers- confused and not sure what is to be done and they lose the litter.  I would probably watch and see how she does the next few days, give her a few days to heal from having the kits and then re-breed her.

We have 1 doe who after breeding and is expecting gets grumpy and growly.

Good Luck!


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## Anniewho6 (Feb 18, 2014)

Hens and Roos said:


> Sorry to hear this , this seems to be common with some 1st timers- confused and not sure what is to be done and they lose the litter.  I would probably watch and see how she does the next few days, give her a few days to heal from having the kits and then re-breed her.
> 
> We have 1 doe who after breeding and is expecting gets grumpy and growly.
> 
> Good Luck!



Thank you! 
I knew that there is a chance young does lose their first litters due to being inexperienced but the grumpy stuff I wasn't sure about. I had not experienced a doe being grumpy so I was skeptical and worried. I'm leaning toward re-breeding and hoping the second time around her instinct will kick in and she becomes a good breeder.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 18, 2014)

Most use the 3 strikes and their out rule, give the rabbit 3 times to get it right and go from there.

Hope she does good this next time around...it is hard to wait expecting a litter and then nothing.


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## P.O. in MO (Feb 18, 2014)

I have a doe that has been mad at me since the first time I bred her.  She will sometimes give my buck fits while he's trying to breed her, clawing and biting.  He is persistent and has always gotten the job done. None of my rabbits like to be handled and put in another cage but some of them get over it and some don't.  I have read that rabbits will sometimes eat dead kits.  I had a litter of eight today of which one didn't survive and was laying on the wire when the rest were in the nest box.  I think she took it out of the nest because it was dead.  The hind legs had been eaten when I found it and a small chunk of flesh was missing from its side.  What I read said the doe was just cleaning up the mess.  If it were my doe I would give her another chance after about a week of rest and recovery from this litter.  Sorry you lost the whole litter.


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## Anniewho6 (Feb 18, 2014)

P.O. in MO said:


> I have a doe that has been mad at me since the first time I bred her.  She will sometimes give my buck fits while he's trying to breed her, clawing and biting.  He is persistent and has always gotten the job done. None of my rabbits like to be handled and put in another cage but some of them get over it and some don't.  I have read that rabbits will sometimes eat dead kits.  I had a litter of eight today of which one didn't survive and was laying on the wire when the rest were in the nest box.  I think she took it out of the nest because it was dead.  The hind legs had been eaten when I found it and a small chunk of flesh was missing from its side.  What I read said the doe was just cleaning up the mess.  If it were my doe I would give her another chance after about a week of rest and recovery from this litter.  Sorry you lost the whole litter.



Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate the response in this forum. Everyone is so nice and very helpful. I am sorry you lost one too. I think I was a little in shock this morning seeing all the dead kits. It was my first loss since I started breeding, and losing all made me feel sad and I felt sad for the doe. I kept watching her off and on all day and she looked tired. She also looked calmer than before the birth. 
We are going to wait a week or two before breeding her again. I have another doe who I plan to breed at the same time in case she might still be inexperienced and something go wrong and I then I might need a foster mom. I hope not but feel it might be a good idea. 

I'll let everyone know how she does next time.


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## P.O. in MO (Feb 18, 2014)

Good luck with your plan and keep us informed on how it works out next time.


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 18, 2014)

x2!


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## xmarx (Mar 14, 2014)

We had a similar experience this week.  A new doe had her first litter on Tuesday.  Today (Friday) we found them all dead.  Upon closer inspection we found a leg, assume that the rest of the creature was consumed.  I appreciate the 3 strike rule advice, we'll see how she does next time.


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## Hens and Roos (Mar 14, 2014)

xmarx said:


> We had a similar experience this week.  A new doe had her first litter on Tuesday.  Today (Friday) we found them all dead.  Upon closer inspection we found a leg, assume that the rest of the creature was consumed.  I appreciate the 3 strike rule advice, we'll see how she does next time.


Sorry to hear about your loss... it is never easy.  We have a doe due next week Thursday and she is very grumpy and growly at us.  We added her nest box today and that gives her something new to do- she's built a nest and then ate all the hay...so tonight when more hay was added she started building again...probably eat it all by morning


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## aksrabbitgirl (Apr 14, 2014)

rebreed her it happens alot with the first litter


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## Freezer_pets (May 1, 2014)

Great post. Just had a similar exp. NZ doe kindled her third litter.  First was a lost because I was not ready and didn't know she was pregnant.  Really kicked myself for that.  Second little was perfect.  14 kindled, 9 survived.  Yesterday, she birthed her third litter and did not cover them.  She never really built her nest either, after we put the box in her hutch.  My wife discovered the littler cold and scattered, some even outside the box.  It's really cold here still, and since the doe hadn't pulled hair, my wife tried to bring them all inside to a warmer spot... Brought in the box full of kits, the doe, etc.  The doe eventually covered them last night, and several were moving before bed.  By today, all 15 were dead...

Should we have just left them alone?  How long will a doe wait to cover them?  On her second litter, we went outside to discover a moving pile of fur in the box.... Nature took over.  This time, not so.  Any feedback for those who've been at this longer would be much appreciated.


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## Freezer_pets (May 1, 2014)

Oh, and how long should I wait to breed her again?


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## SA Farm (May 1, 2014)

Usually a doe will pull fur before or during labor, but some will pull after. For future reference you can actually pull some of the fur off of a doe yourself in little tufts from her dewlap/chest area if the same thing happens again.
I would give her a week to recover before re-breeding her.
And , by the way


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## Hens and Roos (May 2, 2014)

Welcome Freezer_pets- sorry to hear about your litter   Probably wait a week and then re-breed her.


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## Freezer_pets (May 2, 2014)

Thanks much for the replies and warm welcome.  We have had a few frustrating setbacks, and am still learning.  This forum and your friendly replies will be a great help!  

Started into this last summer after years of I interest and looking for local breeders.  Sadly, ere are not many that we can find in SE Alaska... We finally Found a great and helpful breeder in the Washington area that sold us a trio and arranged to get them shipped up to us.  After letting them all mature to breeding age, we found one doe was actually a buck, so not ideal... But not bad as I wouldn't mind going with 3 does and 2 bucks eventually.  After losing first litter, we waited 5 weeks to rebreed.  So with this loss of another litter and no extra doe (yet), our objective cost/pound is stretching out longer and longer... Oh well, time will eventually work it all out.

Again, thanks for the timely feedback!


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## SA Farm (May 2, 2014)

No problem  I had a few setbacks when I first started raising rabbits. Similar issues, sold as doe when it was a buck, lost litters, etc. It's all part of the learning curve, I think. My rabbits have more than made up for it since then and I've actually been expanding, so it all worked out for me. Hope you have the same turnabout with luck


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## happy acres (May 2, 2014)

If you have a successful kindling this time, I'd save a couple does. You can always breed them to your spare buck!


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## SA Farm (May 2, 2014)

happy acres said:


> If you have a successful kindling this time, I'd save a couple does. You can always breed them to your spare buck!


This ^ Hopefully the trio was unrelated so you can have a couple of bloodlines, rather than having to find more/new stock or inbreeding.


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## Freezer_pets (May 6, 2014)

My trio is unrelated.  I just need to get some sort of breeding chart/ record and maybe an ear tattoo tool, so I can keep track and begin to plan my crosses.  I'm still pretty inaccurate on sexing.  I have my does second litter at almost butchering age ~9weeks.  There are a few hefty buns in that batch and am thinking I may keep one... Just need to make sure I am keeping a doe!


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## SA Farm (May 6, 2014)

At nine weeks they should be pretty easy to tell. Simple thing to remember is circle boy teardrop girl. If you can take some clear, closeup pictures and post them, I'm sure the rabbit people here can tell you for sure one way or the other 
I would definitely recommend doing a breeding chart. If you number your cages, you can locate your does/bucks that way until you get your tool.


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