# help with raising body condition (pics added 1.21 7/25/2011)



## redtailgal (Jul 24, 2011)

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## freemotion (Jul 24, 2011)

Wait for the fecals....you are doing everything right.  If the fecals are clean, they are probably having a growth spurt and in a lanky stage.  Personally, I'd get the baking soda out of there and refresh the minerals.  The salt in the bs will prevent them from eating enough minerals, and in humid weather, minerals get yucky fast to fussy goats.  I keep a box of bs nearby and we all check on our goats at least twice a day, usually more often as they are so irresistible.   Stinkin' cute.

Make sure the condition chart you are using is appropriate for your breed.  The first time I saw a condition chart I used it, not realizing it was for Boers and I have dairy mixes.  The correct condition for my 24% Boer is going to be very different from my Alpine/La Mancha.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 24, 2011)

If they were here....   No free choice baking soda, that is why they are not eating the loose minerals.  Check the noble goat to be sure it has AC in it (not all Noble goat does).  And I would up the noble goat ration provided it has AC in it.   Read "Feeding Adult Goats The Roughage and The Regulator"  on my blog, I think you might find it useful.


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## redtailgal (Jul 24, 2011)

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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 24, 2011)

a boer goat with dairy in it can stay considerably thinner than a full-boer. 

Our whethers are getting 3% grain a day of their body weight, or more. 

If They are young growing animals, especially with some dairy in them, they will get thin looking at times if you aren't pumping the grain or alfalfa to them. 



Worming is my first action, with goats that aren't keeping enough finish. 

You of course now, there is the cocci, the blood sucking worms and then tapeworms. Tapeworms will keep a kid slow growing, but not kill the kid or even show signs of anemia. Tapeworms don't always show up on the ground in their poop, they have to have a really high load to start to see tapeworm segments when they poop. 

Did I miss how old these boys are?

the only way I know you are going to see weight improvement, other than fixing a worm problem is upping the grain.

To give you some idea our 4 month kids are getting 3 lbs a day, that is 9 cups of feed a day. yes, we are feeding them out for the fair and pushing them hard.


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## redtailgal (Jul 24, 2011)

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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 24, 2011)

Here are some boer/nubian cross doelings at around 5 months of age. They are on 3 cups of feed each a day.  








I have some more pics if you need them


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 24, 2011)

Here are som photos I had put together on a facebook page. Let me know if you can view them. 

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.139509669454225.30187.100001855770147&l=5304fd4e7c&type=1


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 24, 2011)

When ours need to put on flesh we offer free choice alfalfa and add in beet pulp in addition to their regular grain ration.  It's worked really well for us.


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## DonnaBelle (Jul 24, 2011)

May I inquire:

Where do you get "beet pulp"?

Thanks,

DonnaBelle


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## elevan (Jul 24, 2011)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> May I inquire:
> 
> Where do you get "beet pulp"?
> 
> ...


Feed store.  It's available as shreds and pellets here.


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## DonnaBelle (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks, Emily

I thought perhaps that was something available to a select few Ohioians.

Beet pulp at the feed store. 

Who knew......

DonnaBelle


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## elevan (Jul 24, 2011)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> Thanks, Emily
> 
> I thought perhaps that was something available to a select few Ohioians.
> 
> ...


Our TSC sells quite a bit of it.


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## Ariel301 (Jul 24, 2011)

I've found that stabilized rice bran works really well to put condition on a thin goat. I've been experimenting with giving it to my chronically super-skinny dairy doe (her body condition is MAYBE a one, on a good day!) and she's starting to get some padding on her ribs. It's pricey stuff, about $28 for 40 pounds, but a few ounces a day seems to do the trick. I'm giving my skinny goat about a half pound per day and the ones that need just a little weight about 2 ounces.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 24, 2011)

A friend of mine feeds rice bran with excellent results.


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## aggieterpkatie (Jul 24, 2011)

I had fairly good results with wheat bran, but the stuff is very light and fluffy and is a pain.  Goat sneezes in her feed bowl and you've got wheat bran fluff flying through the air.


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## doxiemoxie (Jul 24, 2011)

As for feeding loose minerals, I've tried several different ways.  When I put the minerals over the pellets it always remained in the bottom of their bucket.  And my girls rarely seemed to be interested in the minerals when I left the feeder out.  But once I got sheep in the same pasture I started bringing the goats a bucket with just minerals in it and they had a half hour or so to nibble before I took it back (sheep can't have copper).  I think they actually are getting a better dose this way.  It also gives me another chance to interact with them and check them over.  They dig in every morning with gusto.  Most of their diet is from pasture and olive trees so I like to know they're getting a good dose on the minerals.


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## redtailgal (Jul 25, 2011)

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## Griffin's Ark (Jul 25, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Here are som photos I had put together on a facebook page. Let me know if you can view them.
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.139509669454225.30187.100001855770147&l=5304fd4e7c&type=1


I just checked the link to look at the pictures and saw that you are originally a Cheesehead!  So am I!  I am originally from Milton, Wi. and live just north of Danville, Va. Small world!  (chris)

I can tell you an extremely quick way to raise the body condition, but the problem is you have to live in a peanut area.  Farmers in eastern VA will bail the peanut plants, call it peanut hay and sell rolls for around $25.  One roll will raise the body condition of a small herd of goats in about 2 weeks.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 25, 2011)

Griffin's Ark said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
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Too bad we can't get peanut hay in the valley, that sounds like a good deal. Are you able to keep the roll outside? 

How long have you been living in VA? I moved here after graduating from college for work. Married a Virginian, and been here ever since. I originally lived near wakefield, Va, a little East of Richmond, right down the road from the Famous Virgnia Dinner, home of the peanut Pie.


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## redtailgal (Jul 25, 2011)

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## Ariel301 (Jul 25, 2011)

They don't look terrible, but they could probably have a little more fat on them. Their coats look good. No need to be ashamed, they're not that bad. I think partially what you are seeing is just how they are built, they may never be as "pretty" to look at as champion show goats, but they don't look unhealthy to me at all.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 25, 2011)

They don't look 75% boer/nubian to me. Look at how short their ears are.  I would say they look pretty good for what ever breed/breeds they are. Maybe could use a little more finish, but it is so hard to tell, if you don't know exactly what their parents looked like. 
You said they are 6 months old? 

I am not as good with my breeds as others on here, but I am guessing some dwarf of some kind in them, giving them the short ears and smaller frames. 

Plus they have a pretty big slope on their rear-end which always takes away from their appearance when you are comparing them to champions. that is a confirmation problem and nothing you can do about it. 

They are cute, and have a nice glossy look to their hair coats, your pasture looks very nice.  I wouldn't make any apologies for them, but if you are wanting more a show quality meat goat type you will have to add a couple more to your farm.


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## DonnaBelle (Jul 25, 2011)

They look very nice to me.  They may not be show goats but who cares about that???

Everyone can't look like Angelina Jolie either.

If they've got all that brouse and all that pasture, they are certainly in good surroundings.

When we went to Mexico we saw a lot of goats grazing on what looked like to me "plain dirt."

Supposedly they are very healthy because of the lack of worms.  

DonnaBelle


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## aggieterpkatie (Jul 25, 2011)

Uh, I really don't think they need to gain any weight.  Their bony protrusions (like hooks and pins) look to have a good cover over them.


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## Chicos Mama (Jul 25, 2011)

Perhaps try adding some calf-manna to their feed. I have been using it here in Arizona with great results! 

And my goaties love the licorice smell...hmmm...I love licorice....mabey juuuust a taste.... ok, nevermind


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## redtailgal (Jul 25, 2011)

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## redtailgal (Jul 25, 2011)

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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 25, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> oh oh oh
> 
> Check out this thread :
> 
> ...


Yup that is what I was thinking.


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## Beekissed (Jul 25, 2011)

I've experienced increased nutrient absorption and consequent weight gain in a milk cow and in a lamb after using UP/ACV:Raw honey: Garlic juice: water bolus.  The lamb just packed on pounds after that!  I would guess that the probiotics of the vinegar and the immunity boost of the garlic and raw honey caused not only parasite removal but better digestion from a recultured bowel.


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## doxiemoxie (Jul 26, 2011)

> They don't look 75% boer/nubian to me. Look at how short their ears are


They actually look good, but I agree that they aren't just nubian/boer.   Remember that all younglings also go through gangly stages and pudgy stages.  My niece says its the accordian effect:  grow out, grow up, grow out, grow up..."  They look like they're developing muscle and that they're big boned.  Look at those knees.  If you kept them in a pen with just alfalfa and grain they might be fatter but possibly less fit.  It can't hurt to increase their dietary fat (peanuts or BOSS) but I think you're just noticing the variability that you can get with goats.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 26, 2011)

doxiemoxie said:
			
		

> > They don't look 75% boer/nubian to me. Look at how short their ears are
> 
> 
> They actually look good, but I agree that they aren't just nubian/boer.   Remember that all younglings also go through gangly stages and pudgy stages.  My niece says its the accordian effect:  grow out, grow up, grow out, grow up..."  They look like they're developing muscle and that they're big boned.  Look at those knees.  If you kept them in a pen with just alfalfa and grain *they might be fatter but possibly less fit*.  It can't hurt to increase their *dietary fat* (peanuts or BOSS) but I think you're just noticing the variability that you can get with goats.


More "grain" with the appropriate amounts of protein and fat will help.  Dietary fat, will make them fat and less fit.


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## redtailgal (Jul 26, 2011)

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## freemotion (Jul 26, 2011)

I think they look great for their age!  Relax and enjoy your two healthy youngsters.

Caution with calf manna.  It is mostly soy, which has many dangers.  Phyto-estrogens, hormone disruptors, and blocks mineral absorption including copper, zinc, and other.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 27, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> With them being wethers and pet wethers at that, I am a little leery of graining them too much.
> 
> I feed Noble with AC, they are getting a cup each once a day.  I have considered upping them a little, but I really really dont want stones.
> 
> With so many thinking they look ok, maybe I will just chill and watch and see.


If that is how you feel then alfalfa is your only choice to add weight.  Anything else you might give, (BOSS, calf manna, etc...) would be so little when mixed appropriately with a cup of noble goat, that it wouldn't do any good.  If you would use an additive with a cup of grain that would be enough to "add weight", You would be risking UC because you will throw off the 2:1 ratio.  The amount is not what causes UC.  It is the ratio.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 27, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> redtailgal said:
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I agree.  Alfalfa and beet pulp will keep your ratios right side up.  BOSS and rice bran will increase their phosphorous intake, just as grain would.  If I was concerned about condition I'd up the alfalfa, add in beet pulp, then assess after a week or two if the grain needed to be increased as well.  I'll bet that you won't have to increase the grain though.


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## redtailgal (Jul 27, 2011)

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## aggieterpkatie (Jul 27, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> or a really ugly one that licks my chin.......I'm such a wuss.


  I had to put my doe in a headlock yesterday while I tried clipping her face/neck and she started licking my face. A moment earlier she hated me for holding her still but I guess she changed her mind.     Turd.


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## redtailgal (Jul 27, 2011)

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## Griffin's Ark (Jul 27, 2011)

Your goats look perfect just the way they are! From what I can tell from the pictures, it looks as tho they don't have any Nubian in them. Look at their ears. A goat that is part Nubian will almost always have "airplane ears". (They will stick straight out from the head and the last few inches flop down). A friend calls them "The Flying Nun". Obviously they have some Boer in them. However, what you have are mostly Alpine. It looks like they are most likely Oberhasli, fka Swiss Alpine. This is a dairy breed. And a dairy goat will have the conformation yours have. Someone already said dairy goats can get thinner than meat goats and that is correct. Actually, unless they are being overfed a dairy goat WILL be thinner than a meat goat.  If a goat has pink-red eyelids, a smooth coat, healthy appetite, tails up, they are not isolating, and their poop is normal - the goat is healthy. 
If you are concerned that they are not eating the loose mineral, add a little molasses and mix it up. I suspect they will lap up all you give them so just put a small amount in a bucket and take it to them once or twice a week. The molasses will also give them a little extra iron. And stop worrying. You are doing just fine. (Griffin's Ark's wife)


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 27, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info.
> 
> I am looking for some alfalfa, but no one around here grows it.
> 
> ...


Not sure where you are, but all the alfalfa here in the South is trucked in.  It doesn't grow here.  Sometimes it's actually more cost effective to get pellets ($10/50 lb bag) than hay ($10-$13 per standard square bale.)  Particularly when you factor in waste.


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## redtailgal (Jul 27, 2011)

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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 27, 2011)

How much you give depends on what your goats need.  But, I always feed *at least* 3 parts alfalfa to 1 part grain.  So slowly work up to 3x whatever amount of grain you're feeding now then go from there.  Meat or dairy, you always want to maintain your cah ratios.


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## redtailgal (Jul 27, 2011)

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## SDGsoap&dairy (Jul 28, 2011)

Yes, that's right.  I think it's safe to feed as low as 2:1 calcium/phosphorous, but we average higher than that.  The ratio is important because too much phosphorous interferes with calcium absorption.  For bucks and wethers this means UC, for lactating does hypocalcemia.  Like Goatmasta mentioned- the AC in feed is intended to help prevent UC.  It's still important to maintain ratios though.


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## redtailgal (Jul 28, 2011)

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