# Can all my critters live in one barn?



## wishin4horses

Hi all!   I'm new to this forum and I tried to find this information already answered but I can't seem to find a search button for finding certain things of interest.  So if this question has been answered else where, I apologize for asking again and thank you for your patience.

We are slowly getting into the hobby farm scene.  It seems like it's taking us forever to reach our goals but this year we purchased 6 brown layers and are enjoying the alot.  Never thought chickens would make a 'good' pet but they are so amusing.     My 8 and 6 year olds also purchased two new zealand rabbits which have given us some challenges in trying to keep them penned up.  Our male bunny is quite an escape artist.
We have been some research about pastures, and the different animals that we are interested in getting.   We plan to build our barn next summer (2011).  Yeah...finally!!!
My husband wants to get a cow and/or goats.  My children want a pig.  I, of course, want a horse.

The question we can't seem to get a straight answer for is, can we keep them all in the same barn?
Right now, our chickens are in a 4x4 coop and run free range in the day. Our bunnies live separate each in a 2x3 hutch that lets them into a pen when we open their doors.  We are planning to move the coop and hutch into a portable car garage to give them extra shelter in our cold NB, Canada winter.   But next year, will they be able to go in the barn with our horse and cow?  What about the other critters that we may get?

We are interested in all advice and helpful criticism as we really don't know what we are getting into.
Thanks


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## ksalvagno

They can all be in the same barn but can't be in the same stalls. You would need to build a large enough barn to give everyone the proper amount of stall space that they would need. Build the largest size barn you can afford, you will be glad you did. It is amazing how fast you use up that room. 

You would probably want to research what housing requirements each animal would need. Like a horse would need one of those solid wooden horse stalls and goats could have a more open pen type enclosure like using corral panels for their stall. Obviously the rabbits would still need to be in their pens and you would want separate living quarters for the chickens.


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## freemotion

I agree.  I several different species in the same barn, but in separate areas (mostly.)  The hens go into their coop space at night but free-range with the goats and turkeys during the day.  The pigs have a totally separate house and pasture at the far end...pigs will kill and eat smaller critters like hens and rabbits.  Pigs do not make good pets, so reconsider getting one for the children.

You will also need to consider keeping each critter out of the other's food, as it could be very bad or even kill them.  Goats are masters of this.  With my arrangement, I cannot keep a filled feeder in the coop because of the boneless goats that can squeeze into a pop door that is almost too small for the largest chicken to get into.  So I must scatter feed for them twice a day in such a manner that the goats get very little of it.  It is an enjoyable chore, but it does tie us here a bit more....must get home before dark to get the poultry fed, especially in winter.

The other unexpected challenge for me was the chickens getting everywhere and into everything.  They will soil food and water, roosting and pooping on hay racks and laying eggs in strange places that then can rot if you are not vigilant about it.  We spent a lot of time adding bits of fencing at the tops of stall walls and such to prevent a lot of this from happening, which means I can no longer fill hay racks from the hay storage area but must carry it in every weather.  You will have to work out your individual challenges, but do expect that your first arrangement will probably work on paper, but your animals will have not read the same books and will have their own ideas on what is what!


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## goodhors

I would agree that all the animals could be under the same roof.  They would need separate containment for outside.  Some horses and cows are VERY rough on small animals, so you can't put them in the same field.  They can graze over the same lands, but just not at the same time.  So plan on breaking up your fields into smaller units for rotation grazing, and keeping each set of animals apart from others.

Not sure how much you are going to invest for housing the horse, cow, smaller goats or sheep.  Box stalls with solid walls, high windows are good containment for ALL animals.  They do cost a bit more to start, but you don't have to cobble the gates, wires, panels together for pens or stalls.  Animals inside the stalls tend to STAY inside safely contained at all times.  I prefer sliding doors with stopper blocks on the bottom for security, over Dutch half doors.  Sliders use no aisle space, can't get jumped over, never sag from animals leaning over the gate.

Chickens would need to be safely penned when in the barn to prevent poop on hay, tools, equipment.  Rabbits in a pen are not usually much trouble, just put the pen out of drafts.  Maybe a different design pen would help keep male contained better or he will be dinner for predators.  Craigslist might have better rabbit stuff for sale.  Poopy hay is not good animal feed, could spread disease the chickens are carrying.  Loose chickens are just really messy.

You will want to plan hay storage space.  Lofts help hold in the heat for cold locations.  You can get more storage, cheaper, by raising the roof, than by spreading out sideways.  There is a lot to planning a barn, making it easy to use and hold all you need inside.  If you have various species, you will need more storage for hay.  Cheaper to buy all you need when hay and straw is getting baled, than buying small quantities year around, hauling it home in the snow or rain of winter.

Horse stall for modern horse is usually 12' x 12'.  This will hold most animals except drafts, even a mare and foal.  Good size for cow and calf or several goats/sheep.  Also a good size for storing bales if you have no animals to fill it then.  Holds a LOT of bales.  You can make stalls plain, we used rough-cut oak inside from the sawmill, much cheaper.  Do use galvanized nails so oak tannin doesn't rust them quickly!  Unfinished lumber holds animals just fine.

Plan to store tractor, any gas engine machine in ANOTHER barn.  Hot engines start fires quickly in barns with hay and bedding.  This is even with cement floors.  Just much better to keep machines off and away from the animal barn.

Which brings up another point.  Make sure your driveways to the farmhouse, barn, are WIDE and fire truck is able to come down it with no problem.  No skinny decorative gate posts.  Do NOT do the scenic driveway winding about thru low trees, only 7ft wide.  Fire trucks are VERY BIG, very heavy, quite long and tall.  Can't save your place if the truck can't get into the farm.

Again, I would go with made stalls, then choose which for which animal.  Stalls over cheaper wire pens or wired up gates for pens.  Have a well made, locking feed storage area, so any loose animals can't get into it.  Garbage cans hold feed well, easy to clean, but animals can open them if not in locked storage area.


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## patandchickens

In my experience, nearly all horses are much healthier and happier (also easier to keep ) when NOT stalled, except perhaps for emergencies and the occasional really nasty night... a good deep run-in shed is yer best kind of horse housing. Seriously. Yes, I include "in a Canadian climate" (I am an hour north of Toronto, and have three retired horses, including a 10 yr old TB and a 22 yr old TB, and they really do much better outdoors 24/7/365 [well, actually 362 or so])

With chickens, be aware that (especially depending on *how* you are keeping them) they produce considerable dust which is not good for the lungs of other animals that may be confined in the same barn, so if they are under the same roof it is often worthwhile to not have too much airflow between the coop portion and the rest of the building.

With rabbits you have somewhat the reverse situation, they are sensitive to dust and damp (such as produced by other animals in the same building) and need to be protected from that, also you may have trouble keeping them in an unheated outdoor location in your climate.

Regarding lofts, it is _not_ always cheaper to build overhead hay storage than ground-level -- in many municipalities you are taxed on the loft space just the same as if it were ground-level, and you need to build things stronger, and insurance rates can be higher, and you will most likely need to purchase a small hay elevator if you are planning on storing any meaningful amount of hay up there, and will be restricted to only small square bales. Whereas ground level storage (in a separate building, or in a lean-to extension off the side of the barn) is easily built in a fairly lightweight way, safer than a loft, easier to load and get hay from, and gives you much more FLEXIBILITY (in terms of space use and in terms of what kind of hay you buy) than a loft. Just some things to think about, anyhow.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## wishin4horses

Wow, I knew there was alot of things that we'd have to learn.  Somedays I wonder if we are doing a bad thing getting into 'farming' without enough experience.  My husband has worked on a small dairy farm in his teens and his dad was a dairy farmer but retired when hubby was only about 12, if that.  So he has minimal experience.   I just know that I am at peace when I go to the barns for my riding lessons.  (I did have brains enough to know I should have riding lessons BEFORE getting my own horse. 
And loved going to the dairy farm up the road when I was a kid.  I even love the smells of the farm; how weird is that?!   When we go away for a day or two and then come home, When I smell that smell of the farms in the area, I know I am home and I am happy.

Anyways,  I do tend to babble sometimes.  Sorry.

We are planning to build a 20x30 gambrel roof with hay to be stored up top.  Two 10x10 stalls and a 6x10 heated water room/tack room.  The extra 4 feet will be a hallway to go into the shavings storage on the back.     That leaves 10feet on the other side of the barn for an alley which is where we were thinking of putting the chicken coop (4ft wide)  and the rabbit hutch (2ft wide) along the wall during the cold winter months.   I would be doing most of my heavy work with the use of a 4wheeler which I thought I'd be able to keep right in the barn too.  I am glad you brought up that topic.  We'll rethink that for sure.    By the shavings storage, on the same outside wall, we're planning a shelter for the animals for most of the year.  bringing them in t their stalls only at cold times.  Thanks to your comments, I am rethinking that also; taking into consideration about mixing them together in the same barnyard might be dangerous for the smaller animals or even the bigger ones if they fight.   We do have lots of fields for pasture.  They are blueberry fields mixed with grass and weeds.  I am also doing alot of research about what is exceptable for the animals to graze and it seems that each likes totally different things.

I am really rethinking the pig idea thanks to your comments.  I always assumed they were pretty peaceful in their dirty, muddy  pens but I only had one experience with that and thinking back, we were not allowed to go into the pen with them.  Guess there was a reason after all.   Just had the image that a barnyard wasn't complete without a pig or two and homemade bacon and ham was a tasty idea too.

I am learning lots before we even start and your comments are most helpful.  Thanks and please continue with your suggestions.  We welcome every comment sincerely.


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## Bossroo

All of the above... then too rabbits will chew on the wood corners of the barn  if allowed loose. Save yourself tons of labor on trying to daily catch small animals... put the rabbits in all wire cages above ground level at a comfortable working height. Keep chickens in their own coop and pen. Loose chickens in the barn will make quite a chore for you to daily clean up the poop. Ducks are much worse for this.   Build your horse stalls at least 12 x 12 and if possible bigger, you will be very happy later on.  ( I had 33 horses at the same time a few years ago in an 8 stall barn with each stall 16 x 24 for faoling, stalling mare and new born foal in bad weather, hospitalization,weaning, etc. The rest of the time they were all in outside pastures year round.) Horses are big TERMITES and will chew on wooden stall boards.   Use metal to cover them or you will be rebuilding the stall often. They are also very good pasture artists ( chewing )  on wooden fence posts and boards. Be sure to provide very good ventilation for the barn. With humidity especially in the winter, Moisture will contensate at the ceiling and walls ( and especially when there is very heavy humidity and heat from the animalls will actually rain from the ceilings) and mould and dry rot will soon follow. For this and other reasons,  Hay lofts are a FIRE hazzard. Hay, especially if they have too much moisture in them and poor air cirulation between the bales,   will spontaniously cumbust and you will loose the animals as well as the barn. Same goes for stored wood shavings especially if not kiln dried.  Keep your 4 x 4 wheeler out of the barn as much as posssible as the hot engine comming in contact with  barn dust will quite possibly make a big bang. Enjoy !


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## patandchickens

The millionaire family around the corner from us burned down their big fancily-renovated bank barn a couple years ago by parking snowmobiles in it. One of 'em was apparently not cool when parked, and an hour later, poof, no barn.

DO NOT store/park vehicles with engines in barns. This is what garages and drive sheds are for 

I am not entirely sure I understand your barn plans but make sure that you leave an area AT LEAST 8' wide by 10' long for the farrier and vet to work on the horses. A 6' aisleway, or an 8' wide aisleway with animal cages on one side, is not wide enough to be really safe. Worst case scenario, if the horse stalls (10x10 is awfully small) are going to be used only for emergencies not routinely, you can put rubber mats in at least one of them and keep it empty of bedding; but it is a whole lot better to have an actual *aisleway* section that can be used for working on the horses. I promise you will find a billion other handy uses for it too, when horses are not occupying it 

Can I suggest building a very open, well-proportioned, flexible-use type barn? Because it is extremely likely that your plans, in terms of livestock or other use of the barn, will change (possibly much more than you can currently imagine), and if you have locked in one particular floor plan then you may have difficulty as your needs evolve. IMHO a plain ol' pole-barn, with a few large stout interior posts that can be used as the basis for dividers, is far and away the most USEFUL kind of barn for basic hobby-farm purposes. It lets you continually change your mind about how much hay storage area (ground-level) and how much workshop-type area and how much of what kind of livestock housing, etc. And is much easier to deal with, and cheaper to build, than a postcard-y lookin' little barn with a hayloft. Pole barns can be made to look cute and picturesque *too*, remember 

Good luck, have fun,

Pat


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## goodhors

Do you live in a cold area?  One that gets snow and days with temps below zero?  Things that work in cold areas are not what hot areas need.  Your management of chores, storage, stalling needs, will vary greatly.

We stall our horses daily.  Husband calls it "the laying on of the hands".  Horses have to follow directions and not allowed free decisions at that time.  Keeps them respectful when handled, they are not pestered severely with insects in sun and heat, stomping hooves to chip hooves or loosen shoes.  Our animals do NOT need 24 hours of daily grazing, which can create it's own problems.  This is mostly horse oriented, but applies well to sheep and cows.  Loose dogs at night can be a danger to small animals in suburban locations, so better to stall them.  A lot of folks do keep animals loose, with a shed for shelter year around.  Many keep blankets on horses for winter, others do not.  Older horses may do better with the constant exercise with their stiffer joints, instead of standing in stalls half a day.  I sure do not stall horses 24 hours a day unless someone is injured!

We are BIG on handling ALL the animals daily, whatever the species.  They stay respectful, less silly, easier to manage for when they need things done.  Stalling or penning for easier to controlled feeding of any grains, hay portions, makes sure they get what you serve them, not distracted away.  You could lead them to stall, feed, let them out again in an hour.  Minimal cleanup.

I don't keep chickens, way too much mess for me.  Other friends do, and they keep them in nice coops for control of eggs, protection from bird killers.  We had a nice rabbit pen when we had a pet rabbit.  She never got loose, but went for walks on a leash with the little daughter.  Grazed her on the lawn.  Was a nice little rabbit, good pet for small child.  She was a Ho-To breed, small but gentle.  Friends having the mini rabbits, mini-lops have all spoken about the VERY bad tempers, cute but nasty.  We had pieces of plaster wallboard for her to chew in the cage, kept teeth from overgrowing.  You have to clip the toenails.  Plasterboard was recommended by the seller who is a breeder of international fame.  They have several hundred rabbits all the time in special housing.  You will have to figure watering methods if you get freezing temps in winter.  All seem rather labor intensive, with changing frozen water several times a day when we had the rabbit.

With cold temps, you will need to consider waterlines.  How to keep water liquid in winter because they ALL drink 3 times as much if you have to carry water!!  Having a water supply at the barn is important if you have large animals, they drink a lot.  Some ideas are a frost-free hydrant and automatic waterers.  With the waterers, they come heated and keep things going all winter, all you have to do is turn them on when cold arrives.  Down side is they are pricy.  

Frost free hydrant needs the water line run from house deep in the ground and you have to put drainage so hydrant can drain after shutoff.  This can mean a BIG hole for pea gravel fill as drainage, and deep, so you it is below the frost line to stay liquid for draining.  In my Michigan location, you want to  put waterlines down at least 6ft.  Deeper if vehicles regularly drive over the water line, the weight will drive frost much deeper in the ground.  And in very cold years, sometimes the 6ft lines will still freeze.

Gambrel roof will give you maximum on the loft storage footage.  Do get good lighting in the loft, makes things easier.  Cold start florescent fixtures are good!  Get the tube covers for the bulbs, protects if glass gets broken.  Curly CFL light bulbs are nice too, but get the cage for breakage protection and glass covers to keep dust off them.  Hot dust is a fire starter.  Hay elevators will be cheaper once summer is done, check farm sales and the auctions too.  You might go with a metal roof, snow slides off easily and they last a long time.  Do insulate under the roof, it is beneficial in many ways.  

I always think of new barns being pole barns, so how you plan the layout is different.  Sounds VERY bad, but if you have everything planned out for your space now, you will certainly be overcrowded quickly!  Ask me how I know!!  My brother in law built our barn, told us to add a third more space when we showed him the plan.  We did and he was right!!  We thought the footage was way overkill, would never need that much room.  Have actually filled that, and added on to barn twice since then!!  Much easier to make it bigger (cheaper too) before you start, than adding on later.  Cost of upward construction is cheaper than outward construction, according to all the builders I know.  They don't hit us on the tax thing mentioned, for total usable footage, both up and down in the barn.  That is about the only thing we wish we had done differently, gone up 16ft, instead of just 12ft sidewalls.  Would almost double the hay storage available before hitting the rafters.

You want aisle to be big enough to drive thru with a truck.  Vet truck, farrier, dropping off feed, all take a truck and the closer you can drive to use area, the easier it is.  Driving thru with machinery and spreader, could be in your future!  Have to say I NEVER dreamed we would have so many horses, and that 12ft aisle gets SO MUCH traffic.  Would be much more difficult with any smaller of an aisle.

A suggestion for reading is Cherry Hill and Richard Klimesh, all her barn related books and the farm layout book.  They are horse oriented, but the ideas could be used for multi-species keeping and keeping things easy care for the workers.

http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_books/Horse_Housing.htm

Here is the site for all her horse barn books:

http://www.horsekeeping.com/horse_books/book_barn_facilities.htm

Maybe you could find the books used on Ebay or another site for less cost.  They should be extremely helpful in creating ideas for your own farm and planning layouts.  

Another helpful place is your Extension Service in the County.  They have many sources of information about housing, feed, care requirements of the various animals you named.  Can be more localized for your area, feedstuffs available there.  They are more production oriented for sales animals, not pets, but the information is still very helpful and informative to the newcomers.  A good place to start, then expand your knowledge from.  Kids might enjoy 4-H with their rabbits.


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## wishin4horses

Thanks again for the advice against parking my 4wheeler in the barn.  It was just one more thing I, as a newbie, assumed would be ok if my barn was kept swept and clean.  But you're right; the risk is far too great to take.  Thanks.

With the coop and hutch on the side wall, there will still be 6feet left for an aisle with a sliding door at each end to allow drive thru service for my 4wheeler but not the truck.  That was my husbands idea. I'll have to try again, maybe with your help and advice, to convince him to make the barn 24x30 instead of 20x30.
My hubby also planned to put a wall between the 2 stalls that would slide.  He still says we're only getting one horse.  (sshh. don't burst his bubble)  So he says we'll slide the wall to make one side bigger for a horse and the other stall will be smaller to be used for something else.  goats or a calf that we'll bring home and later put into pasture until fall.

He is still set on the loft.  I myself think it would be safer and easier to just make the barn bigger and store ground level. I pretty much gave up arguing about it with him since he's building it and will be doing most of the heavy lifting I'll let him do it his way.  Maybe he'll consider your more experienced wisdom, so thanks for your input on that topic.

It does get cold here.  In our coldest time, it's been as low as -30c but averages about -20 or so in the coldest months.   In summer, as high as +32 but averages +25 in summer. 

I was thinking of setting up my barnyard so my critters could go from barn to yard to get some fresh air on the colder days. But have pastures connected to the barnyard where, when warmer weather comes, I could open the gate and let them branch out into greener pastures.
I was currently reading about instead of having one big open rectangle pasture that it would be better to have a 20-30foot wide path around the feild that would keep them moving along better.  The auther of this theory stated that it would keep them more excercised and helps wear their hoofs down because they're not just being lazy in one area.  
Since your advice is that I may not be able to keep a horse, goats, and a cow in the same big open pasture; I am thinking I could rotate them. 
I know this means more work as I'd busy myself having to change them around periodically throughout the day.  AND it means alot more fencing and gates to be able to section them off and give access from one section to the next.  What's your opinion on this.  Sound ridiculous??

We love our chickens.  I laugh now because at first I said "they were going to be kept in their chicken tractor.  I wasn't going to have chicken poop all over my lawn!"   That lasted about 2 or 3 weeks.  I felt so bad to keep them all in that little space so we started letting them out for a free run for a bit in the day.  Then we started letting them out for the afternoon.  NOW, as soon as they have all laid their eggs (all 6 lay every morning usually by 9am), they are rewarded with freedom.  There is chicken poop all over my lawn and my gardens aren't looking so nice (but I'm an aweful gardner anyway).  They are so people friendly.  They come when we call because they think they're getting treats and they are obsessed with treats.  They go to bed in their coop at dusk all on their own.  We close them up so predators don't get them through the night.  My barefoot days are pretty much gone but I have grown to love our chickens as much as my husband whom I have pictures of sitting in a lawn chair trying to have a hotdog and a beer with chickens at his feet begging for a bite.  He of course shares with them and the dog who quietly waits on the side for his piece.  

I am looking into putting my kids into 4H, But wondered if at 8 and 6, maybe they are too young.  I have asked them their opinion, if they were interested or not, and they didn't really know.  I fear I may be pushing my interests onto them.  Kinda like the jock dad pushing his son into sports. My kids are very excited about their critters although have very different opinions about their usage.  My 8yr old son thinks they should all be 'just pets'. My 6yr old daughter thinks we 'have to keep the mommy and daddy but we can eat their babies when they get bigger.  And she says we have to have a cow because she loves hamburgers.  And she says we can make rabbit stew with the bunnies and mittens with the fur.  I think she likes tormenting her big brother. 

My husband hasn't had a chance yet to read the last 3 or 4 replies but he will and I'm sure will have more to add.   I have been looking forward to reading them every morning and appreciate all your advice.  Thanks


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## patandchickens

goodhors said:
			
		

> We stall our horses daily.  Husband calls it "the laying on of the hands".  Horses have to follow directions and not allowed free decisions at that time.


They do, yes. Note that this really has nothing whatsoever to do with whether you stall your horses overnight or they live outside at liberty. 

I handle the horses daily too, when I am out there doing chores and so forth, and have never experienced any loss of manners or respect.



> Our animals do NOT need 24 hours of daily grazing, which can create it's own problems.


Horses can't be left to grraze 24 hrs a day on unusually lush and well-manage pastures, or if they are founder-prone breeds/individuals. However most horses IME do really really WELL on 24 hours on typical pasture. Note that the horses are _not_ grazing continually (they take long siestas or just stand there watching the world go by), and they do _not_ normally get fat. 

For the relatively few "goldfish" who do pig out, all you have to do is keep them on poorer pasture or in a drylot overnight, where they still get all the benefits of free movement. 

Indeed this works fine even for laminitis patients... you just have to keep them drylotted and hay them, rather than have them subsist on grazing. So even previously-foundered horses can MOST CERTAINLY be kept outside, loose, 24 hrs a day, and in my observation generally benefit from it.

Free 24-hr-a-day movement is what horses' bodies evolved doing, it is what they are best designed for, it keeps them fitter, and it keeps them healthier. With hardly any exceptions. Horses are not designed well for forced inactivity for 8 or 12 hours a day, as when stalled overnight (and no, turning around in a 12x12 stall is not exersize )

Just sayin'. It's a very, very legitimate option to consider. Even many "athlete" horses are kept this way. Yer basic backyard horse _certainly_ can be, and IMO usually should. 



> Stalling or penning for easier to controlled feeding of any grains, hay portions, makes sure they get what you serve them, not distracted away.  You could lead them to stall, feed, let them out again in an hour.  Minimal cleanup.


Very true, and a good arrangement if you have many or difficult animals. And HAVING a stall for each horse is pretty important. 

Honestly though, for whatever it's worth, I have found that it is less time and work and instils better manners in the horses, to feed them whatever concentrate or supplements they're getting _while they are outside_. Mine know where their feedtubs go (I am not really "feeding" them per se, but they get some ration balancer about 8 months a year because I can't always get real top-grade hay), they wait their turn for their own tub to be put down and then they stand there and eat peacefully. While they're doing this, I can check their feet, give them whatever once-over or checkup they need, and then stay nearby doing poo pickup duty til they are done. (If I am not nearby, eventually the pony figures out that he can mooch other peoples' food, but if I am there to tell him not to, order is maintained )

Mind you I'm totally _not_ arguing that feeding at liberty is necessarily superior to putting them in for a half hour or whatever; I don't see much of a difference overall; I'm just pointing out that feeding at liberty is another good option for the o.p. to consider. 



> Frost free hydrant needs the water line run from house deep in the ground and you have to put drainage so hydrant can drain after shutoff.  This can mean a BIG hole for pea gravel fill as drainage, and deep, so you it is below the frost line to stay liquid for draining.


Oh yes! Very very very important!

Also, it is a good idea to put your barn water either on an outside wall (in a not very cold climate) or under only-GRAVEL surfaces, not concrete. Because if you lay concrete slab over top of the waterline, and around the frostfree hydrand, that is just the great big Kick Me sign for having something occur that requires you to dig it up. Which is even less fun when there need to be jackhammers involved 



> You want aisle to be big enough to drive thru with a truck.


For a 20x30 barn for just a couple horses or cows, this is really not so much of an issue IMO. You would lose a huge proportion of space having a 12' wide aisle going straight through; and if it doesn't go all the way thru, then you are only saving yourself maybe 10-15' of carrying stuff. Totally different for a bigger barn, of course.

Be careful of the Cherry Hill books, though -- they are aimed at keeping horses in one certain particular way, and may not be a good match for everyone's needs.

Oh, a very very very very important thing to plan into your new barn: excellent drainage around the barn, and excellent footing around the barn. Seriously. It needs to be on SIGNIFICANTLY high ground so there is no chance of flooding (especially from rain and melt when there are still snowbanks around), and the downspouts need to lead significantly away. 

And it is very very very very worthwhile to spend the money to replace all the topsoil for at least 15' around the barn with roadbase or something like that, to be more mud resistant. In nearly all cases, the ground right around the barn will get badly thrashed by feet/tires/hooves and particularly if you are moving animals from barn to pasture and back every single day, the area will get badly churned up and horribly muddy. Amending the footing before you even PUT animals on it will do a lot to reduce your work to fix mud later on. Same goes for any run-in sheds (shelters) you may eventually build in paddocks, btw

GOod luck, have fun,

Pat


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## patandchickens

wishin4horses said:
			
		

> My hubby also planned to put a wall between the 2 stalls that would slide.  He still says we're only getting one horse.  (sshh. don't burst his bubble)  So he says we'll slide the wall to make one side bigger for a horse and the other stall will be smaller to be used for something else.


The easiest way to do this is to make removable boards for the divider, that slot into a 'track' on each wall. Track needs to be adequately deep (so that slight bowing of boards when a horse sits against 'em does not spring them out) and/or boards should be screwed into the track when divider is in use, and track should be filled with a piece of 2x4 when empty (for its own protection). But it is really pretty easy and quick to convert, and a good arrangement overall IMO. And requires less space and less engineering than a "sliding" wall.



> He is still set on the loft.  I myself think it would be safer and easier to just make the barn bigger and store ground level. I pretty much gave up arguing about it with him since he's building it and will be doing most of the heavy lifting


Call your insurance company first, see if there is a significant difference in what they'll charge for your premiums. Sometimes there is!



> I was thinking of setting up my barnyard so my critters could go from barn to yard to get some fresh air on the colder days.


Would they not be outdoors like usual, even in the winter?? There is not much you can keep that can't go outside in your winter, really really. Livestock do much better with as much possible fresh air and ability to move around at will. 

The only time you may need to keep them in a sacrifice lot rather than loose in the pastures would be when the ground is real muddy. When that is the case, having largeish animals (cattle or especially horses) schmucking all around will ruin your soil and grass, badly, so if you have a well-drained good-footing drylot where they can spend their time, it is very much advantageous. For most of the winter, though, especially the cold parts, your ground will be FROZEN and then there is no reason why they shouldn't have free access to your pastures.



> I was currently reading about instead of having one big open rectangle pasture that it would be better to have a 20-30foot wide path around the feild that would keep them moving along better.  The auther of this theory stated that it would keep them more excercised and helps wear their hoofs down because they're not just being lazy in one area.


I know some people theorize this, but I have seen enough injuries from horses kept that way (when they get to running in that narrow, sharp-turn or dead-end style corridor) and the cost of fencing is so mcuh higher than for a more normal crossfencing system that I would not recommend it myself.



> Since your advice is that I may not be able to keep a horse, goats, and a cow in the same big open pasture; I am thinking I could rotate them. I know this means more work as I'd busy myself having to change them around periodically throughout the day.


No, you'd rotate them over periods of like days or weeks. For instance the horse and cow (if they get along peacefully) might be in paddock A for a week while the goats are in paddock B, with paddocks C and D empty; then after a week maybe the goats have grazed their paddock down and are moved into paddock C, while the horse and cow are moved to paddock D when their grass runs low, and when you move them again in a few weeks, this time the horse and cow go into B while the goats go into A (to take advantage of several aspects of cross-species pasture rotation). Etc.



> AND it means alot more fencing and gates to be able to section them off and give access from one section to the next.  What's your opinion on this.  Sound ridiculous??


Crossfencing can often be just electric fence, unless you have breeding animals (that are hard to confine safely and effectively that way). Gates in electric fencing can be very primitive, if you are not having to move animals through them twice daily. It needn't necessarily be terribly expensive. Then you can remove the electric crossfencing come wintertime, and reinstall in the spring. With step-in posts this is pretty easy.



> I am looking into putting my kids into 4H, But wondered if at 8 and 6, maybe they are too young.


I thought 4H didn't start til like 3rd or 4th grade? Not sure, maybe I am wrong. 

Pat


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## Lupa Duende

Sounds like great fun!
I am starting to have quite a full house myself.
Since moving to Quebec, I have taken in the odd bird, raccoon, turtle, dog, and cat but not until this June did I realise that what is needed around here is a refuge for farm animals. We have ten acres of disturbed woodland that we have made trails through. We have fenced off the front four acres, which constitutes the road frontage and circles round the property to include the house and back garden. By the time five goats were adopted, we knew that we needed to build a barn. This is now instead of a second bathroom, proper kitchen, and separate bedrooms for the children. We have already had our first frost up here and so the goats, odd chicken, guinew fowl, and pony (yes she came last week!) are all snoozing in the garage at night. Our garage is serving as their run-in until the barn is done.
My huband is building a 'second garage' immediately next to the current garage. It is 18 by 30 and the roof is still not on but he is mostly doing it on his own with a friend who stops in on Saturdays. The barn will not be insulated or heated aside from Deep Litter and radiant heat from the critters. Hay will be stored on the first floor and this area will also be mny workshop. (I sell paintings and sculptures to raise money for the animals.) I no want want a permanent stairway going up inside the barn because of birds wanting to roost on the stairs and then having a slippery mess to avoid. I need to divide the space between the pony, goats, ducks, chickens, turkey, and whatever else comes our way but still have a 3 or four foot foyer forming an L shape so I can store feed and have a tie down for the critters and a wee infirmary. 
It is fun now but carrying buckets of water every morning and night will be my greatest complaint. 
Does anyone know of a barn being pulled down in the Montreal/Plattsburgh/Burlington area? I would love to get some of my hardware (hinges, stall mats, feeders) as 'free' as possible.I am also looking for pony tack ever since sweet Maggie came to us last week.
Any suggestions on stall design and economising on building would be appreciated.
Thank you in advance.


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## wishin4horses

Glad to know that we weren't the only ones to get animals first, build barn second. :/   AND  put renovations for our own living quarters on hold for renovations for the critter's living quarters!   I am learning after only our first year, that there is never enough space.   Everyone told us that we would want to build big enough for extras and now in our second year, we did indeed have to build an additional run in for the now 2 ponies who have been booted out of the barn as we needed all our stalls after the birth of our baby kids this spring and a new buckling and mini donkey.   We are learning that our donkey doesn't not like it outside in the cold, and  not in the heat; she likes it juuust right or else she wants to be inside!    Oh, I'd also like to mention that the pens we built for our goats had to be altered to keep in the babies since they were so tiny they could fit through the smallest of spaces.  But they were so adorable that we didn't mind; it was like a game to see who would outsmart who.  Glad to say that we won that battle.  I do wish that I had won the battle of a bigger space on the floor for hay instead of a loft.   I hate going up and down the ladder for hay.   and yes, chickens purch on everything.    I am happy that we now have an addition built just for chickens and that's usually where they eat and sleep And poop but they still have to go through the barn to get outside.   Next, we will make a trap door in their chicken house so they can get to their playpen without having to go through the barn.    We are constantly making changes as our babies are growing and new animals arrive so I suggest to anyone who has a mixed family like ours who are looking for ideas of stall designs, don't make anything permanent (as was told to us) as your needs are always changing.    I agree- Carrying buckets is not so fun.   We have a water room in our barn with hot water.  That is one thing I am most thankful for.   I have found some 'deals' on kijiji for tack and barn supplies.    All in all, the hobby farm life keeps us busy and happy and busy.   Everyday, we learn something new!!

Cathy
CrazyAssAcres - complete with 2 ponies, mini donkey, goats and kids, a pig, chickens, a dog and cats, a great hubby who is constantly building me things and 2 children who help do chores -- Life is Good!!


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## Lupa Duende

My husband finished the barn just before the first snowfall on St Nikolaus Day.  The ducks, goats, and pony share the same area, while the chickens have their own roosting area so that I can avoid slipping on poop as I climb into the loft. To date, keeping the ducks hapy with enough water while keeping the humidity down has been my greatest challenge. Luckily they all want a wander outside during the day so that I have a chance to muck out the barn before the girls come in for grain.
What kind of products could I mix in with the old hay and shavings to absorb more of the horse urine and duck splashes?  The chickens have sawdust in their roosting area and I am using Deep Litter Method there. From what I understand, this does not work with pony poop so I muck that out each afternoon.
Anyone have any suggestions?


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## EllieMay

I sprinkle some PDZ in areas where needed.
I keep sheep, guineas, chickens and dogs in the barn.
They're not confined to the barn (they all free range) but at night they're asleep inside the barn.
The PDZ helps keep things dry especially during the winter when they spend more time inside.


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