# I want a back yard milk goat (or 2)...what breed??



## ABHanna4d (Dec 16, 2009)

What breed do you suggest for a mini back yard milk goat?
I want 2 so they have a "friend" and also so we can rotate breeding so we have year round milk. 
I have looked into nigerian dwarf goat and also pygmys and kinder goats. What is the difference in these breeds? Will any of them produce "better tasting milk" or is it just dependant upon what they eat. I am very new to this and ANY advice I can get before I "go for it" would be GREAT! 
I live in the city and have a relatively large back yard (for the city) about 100'x150'. We currently have 4 chickens (will probably get more in the spring) and they have full run of the back yard (with a coop and fenced run as well) and we plan to let the goats have range of the yard (with a little barn and fenced run as well). Will this be too small of a space for 4+ chickens and 2 mini goats? How bad will this many animals start to smell...I dont want my neighbors mad at us for our little farm so close to them! 
I have a ton of questions but I will stop here...if you have ANY advice I would love it!!
abby


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## cmjust0 (Dec 16, 2009)

If I wanted a backyard mini breed for milk, I'd definitely go with a Nigi..  Reason being, they're more common..  More common means less up-front cost, better prospects for being 'picky' about the animals you bring home, and a better chance of finding someone willing to offer a same-breed buck for stud so you don't have to keep one..

Read that last part a few times...about the bucks...be sure to take that into consideration as you make your decision.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 16, 2009)

a chicken and goat are differnt categories for the city.

be sure you CAN have them before you get them.  worse thing, you get a few, grow attached and find out some neighbor turns you in and Boom--trouble on your doorstep

Nigi is good.  Common means you can get new parts for them more easy than a foreign version....   Joke


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## no nonsense (Dec 16, 2009)

I recommend that you forget about minis altogether. Normal dairy goats won't take up that much more space and feed. The work will be the same. Proportionately, you'll get more milk per amount of feed from a normal goat as you will a mini. Miniature breeds, the two pure breeds and alll the other mutts, tend to have small teats which are difficult to very difficult to milk. You can keep 2 normal goats in that size pen. Forget about Nubians with your neighbors. They're loud and obnoxious, and tend to give less milk overall than other breeds. Saanens give the most milk, and generally have excellent dairy temperament. That means that they're easy to work with. You can't beat Lamanchas for temperament, and those ears do tend to grow on you. Alpines are flighty, and many of the varieties are just plain ugly IMO. Oberhaslis are sharp looking, and overall not too bad to work with.
Milk flavor is often a factor of genetics and feeding. It's definately affected by milk handling procedures.


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## helmstead (Dec 16, 2009)

LOL My Nubians eat as much as my HORSES...and I have to disagree with the loud and obnoxious bit, guess I have exceptional girls, because as long as we're at home, they're quiet and sweet.  Now, on the road, different ballgame, but at home...

I (of course) vote MILKING BRED nigerian.  Teat size and production vary by line, so don't buy pet quality and don't buy from a breeder who doesn't MILK their does!  You want pics of the dam's udder, sire's dam's udder if possible, and production records of some sort.  IMO Nigerian milk is sweeter, richer and produces more cream for use in cottage cheese. (altho not enough to make butter w/o a separator)

Pygmies, while you will find the odd animal who could be milked, are more meat type and not usually recommended for milking.  Kinders...eh.  Mini dairy breeds when crossed out on Nigerians (see Mini-Nubian, Mini-Alpine or visit the MDGA website) are another good option.


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## Roll farms (Dec 16, 2009)

I'll second the "Not all Nubians are loud and obnoxious"...Some can be...but I've heard Saanens and Toggs who I'd just as soon not have on my place, they can get loud as well.

IMHO, if I wanted a beautiful, smallish dairy goat, and decided against the Nigis, I'd go w/ an Oberhasli...NEVER have I met a loud one, they're super-smart, don't get huge, and produce very well for their size.

Another thing I'll agree w/ Helmstead on...ask to see udders / production records.  Some folks breed for milk, some for show, some for pets...it's a rare goat that is good at being all 3 types.

Show goats tend to be screamy-divas, their bad attitudes are tolerated b/c they get ribbons, and personality is inherited.

People who don't milk their goats (keep them for pets) usually don't pay attention to who they're breeding to who, as far as best production....

Good production records on the dams will usually indicate good production from the kids.

I had to milk a pygmy once for colostrum...You couldn't PAY me to attempt that again...tiny little ta tas.....


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## Wild Wind Farm (Dec 17, 2009)

We have Nigerians and milk 3 does right now,  My kids can have them all milked in less that 10 min.  We get a little less then a quart at each milking from each of them.   When I milk I use the EZMilker which is great for me but my kids would rather hand milk.  My kids figured the cost of keeping a Nigerian for a year is $50, they had to have a total for 4-H. 
 I hope this helps you, I don't think you can go wrong with any dairy goat, but I like the ease of handling a Nigerian and their personalities are very loving for the most part.  Do try to see the Dam and what she is like and what kind of a milker she is, look up bloodlines on the computer to see if they are good milkers.  I would even try to buy from a breeder who is on a milk test.  We are starting ours in the spring, I think quite a few do this. 
  My does do not smell, we clean their pens out every other week.  The bucks on the other hand are a different story. 
 Good luck!


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## FarmerChick (Dec 17, 2009)

key being the OP asked for best MINI milker.
the OP knows what they want.


I sometimes wonder why someone wants something...LOL
a full size dairy goat would normally be the way to go....but sometimes people want what they want for certain reasons.


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## helmstead (Dec 17, 2009)

FarmerChick said:
			
		

> I sometimes wonder why someone wants something...LOL
> a full size dairy goat would normally be the way to go....but sometimes people want what they want for certain reasons.


This is breed discrimination.  There is no "normally" when picking a goat breed to go with, and a miniature dairy goat has no less merit than a full sized dairy goat.  

I do have to agree with cmjust0 on a point that needs to be considered - buck service.  In a small yard, no, you aren't going to want a buck.  Buck service is also becoming harder and harder to find.  Be SURE you can find a buck of the breed or type that you BUY to take your does to yearly.  If you have to drive several hours to get your does...you'll have to do the same at least once a year to breed them!


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## kelidei (Dec 17, 2009)

My husband and I have been talking about getting a couple of goats for about a year now. We have 2 1/2 acres and about 40 chickens already (IOW not new to caring for creatures). We have decided on the Dwarf Nigerians also--- mostly because more than a quart of milk a day would be too much for us. It is just the two of us. I do not want to sell milk--- Eggs are one thing--- goat milk would be a whole other. 

My question is how does one find a reliable breeder? I live in Illinois so somewhere close enough to drive would be ideal. We have had offers through people here for all kinds of goats BUT I want to know what I am getting--- not being snobbish but after raising chickens I know health and genetics are important. Would appreciate any help--- also if need be would shipping be a problem for the animals? Thanks!


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## helmstead (Dec 17, 2009)

Well...LOL...we're moving to Indiana in 2010 

I know of several breeders in IN with excellent bloodlines and showing records.  Haven't found a lot about their milking tests, though...but the bloodlines I've seen are known for their udders.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 17, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> FarmerChick said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


breed discrimination
can't go there with you.

a person WANTS what they WANT---not what you think they want

if someone wants a MINI for their farm and decide that is the breeds they want to research and own, how in the world would it be breed discrimination?

There is a normally.....most people when talking "dairy" DO WANT ALOT OF MILK.....not all, but most.   Dairy is just that, dairy needed for a reason.  So the mini might not be good choice, BUT again, it is what the people need the animal for their own personal use.  A mini might be perfect might not.


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## helmstead (Dec 17, 2009)

Why do so many people on this board talk in circles, anyway?  sheesh  Am I the only person who sees this?


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## FarmerChick (Dec 17, 2009)

your saying THAT post doesn't give a true purpose either

so take your own advice




a mini does have less merit in the gallons per day milked

not saying that is bad, just saying if someone wants MORE milk than mini is not it.    if you do not need tons of milk, mini will fit your agenda.



your throwing out breed discimination had no merit in the thread that I saw ??


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## Goatzilla (Dec 17, 2009)

Stinkin' goats! See, they even cause trouble on the internet when they're not even present. If the little jackals had thumbs they'de rule the world! I was at a livestock auction a while back and a young couple had just bought a couple of goats and were discussing what they were going to name them. An "old timer" leaned over to them and said, "why don't you just name them #%@&*ing goats, 'cause that's what you'll be callin' them within a week".


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## ksalvagno (Dec 17, 2009)

It really comes down to how much milk you really want/need. Plus how many goats do you want to own. You can have more minis than larger breeds. Also, you may not need a gallon a day per goat. I know there is no way I could use that much even if I made cheese and yogurt.

I spent a lot of time researching online and talking to goat owners of all breeds before finally settling on Nigerians. The first goats that I was attracted to was the Nubian. But the thought of having so much milk that I would dump it just didn't set well with me.

I have found that the Nigerians do eat much less than my alpacas. My alpacas range from 170-200 lbs. Now that I have this Boer goat, I find that she eats as much hay as the alpacas and needs a lot more feed. Granted she is nursing a kid but she is getting 8 cups (a measuring cup) of feed per day as compared to 1 cup per day for the Nigerians. I do know I will have to increase that as my Nigerians get closer to delivery and when they are milking but they still won't be at  the amount that the Boer goat eats.

Everyone needs to figure out what their milk needs or wants are and then go from there. But it also comes down to do you like going out and looking at that goat because you have to go out there and care for them every day. I would visit several goat farms and talk to them about how much room the goats need, how much milk you can expect per goat and how much they eat. You also need to look at how much milk you drink and if you are going to make cheese and yogurt.


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## kelidei (Dec 17, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Well...LOL...we're moving to Indiana in 2010
> 
> I know of several breeders in IN with excellent bloodlines and showing records.  Haven't found a lot about their milking tests, though...but the bloodlines I've seen are known for their udders.


Ha! When are you moving? What part of Indiana? Would you mind sharing with me through PM?


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## Wild Wind Farm (Dec 17, 2009)

Just look for the type of goat that fits your needs, that might be a mini or full sized goat, they are all great!  I just love Goats.


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## Wild Wind Farm (Dec 17, 2009)

kelidei said:
			
		

> My question is how does one find a reliable breeder? I live in Illinois so somewhere close enough to drive would be ideal. We have had offers through people here for all kinds of goats BUT I want to know what I am getting--- not being snobbish but after raising chickens I know health and genetics are important. Would appreciate any help--- also if need be would shipping be a problem for the animals? Thanks!


Ask for phone # of other people the breeder has sold to and call them to see if they were happy.  You may have to drive a ways, I have driven more that 5 hrs. for 3 of my does and 3 hrs for my bucks.  You can also have them shipped, I have not done this but have friends who have, but it is a good idea to see the farm they are coming from.  I like to see the parents also and see their performance records, such as milk or show records.  I hope this helps, good luck!


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## FarmerChick (Dec 17, 2009)

Goatzilla said:
			
		

> Stinkin' goats! See, they even cause trouble on the internet when they're not even present. If the little jackals had thumbs they'de rule the world! I was at a livestock auction a while back and a young couple had just bought a couple of goats and were discussing what they were going to name them. An "old timer" leaned over to them and said, "why don't you just name them #%@&*ing goats, 'cause that's what you'll be callin' them within a week".


Yup that is the name of all mine!
they all respond to that name also!


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## no nonsense (Dec 17, 2009)

FarmerChick said:
			
		

> key being the OP asked for best MINI milker.
> the OP knows what they want.
> 
> 
> ...


True, but sometimes people think that they know what they want, when they really don't. The poster wants milk, year round. She won't get that with Nigerians. She has a small space for them, and seems to think that normal goats are too large for it, but they're not. Too many people nowadays fall for the mini craze, getting all googly eyed at the mere mention of the word. In this case, thinking that goats equals milk, equals _enough_ milk. Doesn't work that way in practice. For those who admire the antics of goats, and don't want milk, and who can't handle normal sized animals, we already have the pygmy. People have tried to capitalize on the fanciful wish to have a dairy animal of the same size, and so created the Nigerian Dwarf in recent decades to _try_ to fill the role. Nice idea, but in practice, a dairy breed of that size is not sustainable. Breed discrimination? Dramatize it by using that word if you must, but I have another word for it.........reality.


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## Wild Wind Farm (Dec 17, 2009)

Why do you think you can't get milk year round with Nigerians?


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## doo dah (Dec 17, 2009)

helmstead and FarmerChick please calm down, we dont want this thread getting locked .

OP, as mentioned before you really want to make sure there is a way for you to breed your does before getting them.  You probably already know this, but you don't want to breed a mini doe with a standard buck due to birthing complications.  If only standard sized bucks are available to you then you may consider a standard doe and mini weather.  Just put enough milk in the freezer to last you a couple of months and you're good to go .  

For "better tasting milk" look at the butterfat content, usually the higher the butterfat the more people like it.  I hear that Nigis, pymies, boars (though these are a meat breed), Nubians and (some)LaManchas have good butterfat, esp the first three mentioned.  I don't know anything about Kinder goats except that they are a new breed currently in development (same with all the mini standards).

Whatever breed you choose, remember to make sure you like the does themselves, because you're going to be working with them at least 2x a day.  Good luck!


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## ksalvagno (Dec 17, 2009)

Not being able to get milk from Nigerians year round doesn't even make any sense. You have kids at different times of the year and voila you have milk all year round. The OP also has to keep in mind that the goats will have to kid once a year to keep that milk going and you either have to butcher or sell the kids. If you feel you can't butcher, then you may end up with more goats than you planned for at least a period of time. No matter what anyone says, you can keep more small goats on a piece of property than the larger ones.

No Nonsense, you may be a "real" farmer and have your farming ways but this is someone who is going to have goats in their backyard. They will end up being pets as much as a milk source. Much different way of thinking and caring for the goats. Plus what good is it if you are dumping milk down the drain because you can't drink it all.  The OP didn't say how much milk he was looking to get. You may use all your milk but others may not have time to make cheese and stuff.


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## cmjust0 (Dec 17, 2009)

no nonsense said:
			
		

> True, but sometimes people think that they know what they want, when they really don't.


And sometimes other people think they know what the first person really wanted, when they really don't.



			
				nn said:
			
		

> The poster wants milk, year round. She won't get that with Nigerians.


Two sentences, and you're way off the rails already.

Nigis are year-round breeders, so it's possibly to stagger them for year-round milk.  Full size breeds, for the most part, are seasonal breeders..  

So, the "reality" is that might actually be _easier_ to get year-round milk from nigerian dwarves than standard sized breeds.



			
				nn said:
			
		

> She has a small space for them, and seems to think that normal goats are too large for it, but they're not.


She never said she thought her space was too small.  Go back and read the original post.  She started her post by saying she wanted a mini breed...period...and then asked if her space would be big enough for two mini goats and some chickens.  

Not once did she say "I'd like to have standard sizes, but I don't have room" or anything remotely like that....you're putting words in her mouth because you ASSUMED she didn't think she could accomodate full sized goats.



			
				nn said:
			
		

> Too many people nowadays fall for the mini craze, getting all googly eyed at the mere mention of the word. In this case, thinking that goats equals milk, equals _enough_ milk. Doesn't work that way in practice.


Because, of course, not only do you know better than the OP what kind of goat the OP wants, but you also know how much milk she consumes?!?

Ridiculous..  

You have NO IDEA how much is "enough" for the OP.  At last milking, my wife and I got 3qts a day from a Nubian and it was WAAAAAAAAY too much for the two of us.  We could have done nicely with 1qt/day...which is actually on the _waaay_ low end of what a single Nigi can crank out.



			
				nn said:
			
		

> For those who admire the antics of goats, and don't want milk, and who can't handle normal sized animals, we already have the pygmy. People have tried to capitalize on the fanciful wish to have a dairy animal of the same size, and so created the Nigerian Dwarf in recent decades to _try_ to fill the role. Nice idea, but in practice, a dairy breed of that size is not sustainable.


Which is why, of course, the Nigerian Dwarf population is dwindling on account of a lack of interest or breed sustainability.

Oh, wait...that's right...the exact opposite is happening!

   



			
				nn said:
			
		

> Breed discrimination? Dramatize it by using that word if you must, but I have another word for it.........reality.


No, the real reality of the situation is that the OP has decided that she wants two mini goats for year-round, backyard milk production...a purpose for which Nigerian Dwarves were practically tailor made.

I'm not sure why you're so upset about that, but...well, that's still the reality.

And, for what it's worth, I don't even own a Nigerian Dwarf.  We breed Nubians.  I guess I just also happen to be able to look at things objectively, even when it means I don't get to promote the virtues of the animals I happen to raise.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 17, 2009)

I am there with ya on this one cmj


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## KinderKorner (Dec 17, 2009)

KINDER GOATS!

If you want an awesome backyard mini goat. Go with Kinders.

I started breeding and raising them last year and I'm loving them.

They are quiet, medium in size, have a lot of kids at a time, have one of the highest butterfat contents in goat milk, they give lots of milk, and are super friendly.

Look how cute they are!





Young Buckling





Doe

The are a 5 generation Nubian Pygmy cross. They come in all colors, have nice sized teats for milking, and depending on what you want you can get small or large ones. They are also dual purpose, and come in both meat and dairy lines.

I am located in IL. 

If anyone wants any information on them, or has questions feel free to PM me. I would love to get more interest in them. As they are a newer and rare unknown breed.

I take my herd very seriously. I have gotten the best bloodlines I could find. I actually drove 14 hours yesterday to pick up a 4x Champion Pygmy Buck, and a nice Nubian doe. So I can begin a new line again. 

They are outstanding breed, that has yet to be discovered.

I will have babies born on Wednesday, and lots more does kidding in the spring. So I will have lots of babies for sell soon. If anyone is wanting to get their own herd started.


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## helmstead (Dec 17, 2009)

doo dah doesn't know what it looks like when I'm worked up - I don't think FarmerChick nor I needed any sort of warning.  

cmjust0 - WELL PUT thanks, that was probably the best defense to one of the rudest attacks on the Nigerian Dwarf breed I've heard YET.

Kinder - thanks for all the info, I am _super_ uneducated on Kinders (they are not heard of in my little corner).  Would love to see more posts with udders and production, conformation, etc, on your herd!  We just ventured into Mini-Nubians (because we want our Nubian does in milk, but DIDN'T want the liability of a full sized buck here with all our Nigerian does), so experimentals interest me, esp the mini-experimentals.


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## FarmerChick (Dec 17, 2009)

All is cool on my side helmstead


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## KinderKorner (Dec 17, 2009)

I will be birthing my first Full Kinder Babies on Wednesday.

I have had goats for several years. But I only got Kinders last year.

Lucie is still pretty small, but her udder is getting full. I can take some pictures of her udder after she births for you. I will put them on my other thread I have going.

Can't wait to see what the babies look like.


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## doo dah (Dec 18, 2009)

helmstead said:
			
		

> doo dah doesn't know what it looks like when I'm worked up - I don't think FarmerChick nor I needed any sort of warning.  .


I appolagize to you both and give you full permission to do this  (but not too hard ok? )


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## FarmerChick (Dec 18, 2009)

I love that slapping smiley...HAHA


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## chandasue (Dec 18, 2009)

I went through the same agonizing decision between Kinders and Nigerians. Kinders seemed like a better fit for getting a combo of milk/meat/pets but I don't want to keep a buck where we are right now. We have a little over 3 acres and the neighbors don't care what we do as long as it's not too loud or smelly, hence no buck. And I couldn't find a single person in MN that breeds Kinders, but several Nigi breeders close by. So Nigis it is and I love my 2 girls to bits. We're going to stagger the breeding and hopefully have milk for much of the year. (Any that we don't sell will be butchered but DH will have to drive them to the butcher. I won't have the heart.) They're super friendly even with my rowdy 3 yr old son and follow us around the yard better than the dog.  The only down side that I see to the smaller goats and less milk is that if you get into cheesemaking you'll need a lot more milk but I have too many irons in the fire as it is to add cheesemaking to my list of neglected hobbies.


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