# My Ali  is now getting help! updated pictures



## MaggieSims (Sep 3, 2016)

Hello all! I got this goat bred in winter, and she kidded in January. Her condition was decent, not awesome, but not rescue either. I kept her well fed, and milked her fit several months. I noticed her getting a bit skinny, so i decided to stop milking. 
Overall I have noted several issues I need to address.
1, she apparently has something going on with her teeth, she is storing half eaten hay in her cheeks like a chipmunk. I asked a vet over the phone, but seemed like they had no idea, she just asked if I looked in there and see anything. But the answer to that is no, I need more help, that goat can be strong and she doesn't want me looking in there with a flashlight. But when I see her cheeks full, I massage her and can feel it dislodge and see hay and take it out. 
2, copper deficiency, really since I got her. But I couldn't find copper bolus anywhere so I got good loose minerals. After she shed winter coat I brushed her and all her black hair on her sides and back fell out. I ordered some ASAP and dosed her August 23rd. 

I'm thinking the combination of the two are causing the thinness issue? Am I overlooking something more obvious?

Pictures:
This is her now



 
Notice the white hair on the one side stayed.


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 3, 2016)

Have you run a fecal to check for worms? Worms can cause a weight loss,  hair and skin issues,  and a bloated belly.


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 3, 2016)

When was the last time she was dewormed? How much are you feeding her? Has she been tested for CAE?


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 3, 2016)

She's looking a bit "undernourished"... thin/bony... Do you know how old she is? Do you know the quality of the hay you're giving her (tested?)? Have you been supplementing her with grain at all? Now or when you were milking her? She may be getting "enough" (quantity) to eat, but not enough nutrients from it, coupled with mineral deficiency (hair loss) and parasites (thin/hair loss)... 

@Southern by choice @OneFineAcre @babsbag @Goat Whisperer  Others?


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 3, 2016)

I would agree with everyone else
Have you checked her for worms?
What are you feeding
I have one poorly conditioned goat
It's one of my bucks
He has had an issue with worms


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 3, 2016)

I do think she is thin
My rule of thumb is I want to be able to feel a goats ribs but I don't want to see them particularly in a pic


----------



## TAH (Sep 3, 2016)

What everyone else has said.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 3, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Have you run a fecal to check for worms? Worms can cause a weight loss,  hair and skin issues,  and a bloated belly.





Green Acres Farm said:


> When was the last time she was dewormed? How much are you feeding her? Has she been tested for CAE?





OneFineAcre said:


> I would agree with everyone else
> Have you checked her for worms?
> What are you feeding
> I have one poorly conditioned goat
> ...



Honesty, I last wormed in July, buy no fecals done, never had that done , I know I need to but I thought I should be prepared with what to ask the vet for. Do they have different kind of tests, or will they know what I mean? She is the only goat out of 7 that look like this. Her two sons from this year I kept as wethers and look amazing.


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 3, 2016)

@Southern by choice has written articles on parasites, if you look them up on here that will get you started!


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 3, 2016)

MaggieSims said:


> she is storing half eaten hay in her cheeks like a chipmunk.


Goats chew cud... is this just cud? They will keep cud in their cheek, rechew, and swallow.  



MaggieSims said:


> But when I see her cheeks full, I massage her and can feel it dislodge and see hay and take it out.


Make sure it isn't just her food - cud- 



MaggieSims said:


> I ordered some ASAP and dosed her August 23rd.


Good! How many grams did you give her?

As far as parasites and fecals-

Many do deworm their goats 30 days prior to kidding with a dewormer that is safe for pregnant goats. The reason for this is the same hormones that are now kicking in growing those kids and growing those udders are also causing parasites to multiply rapidly. Deworming 30 days before gives the doe a really good start to kidding and lactating.

Once a doe starts lactation her body is producing milk and needing to also sustain weight etc.
Many give a dairy goat feed so that sustaining the goat and milking can be acheived without taxing the doe.
Does, after kidding can have a parasite "bloom" generally 3-6 weeks after. This bloom if not checked and goat isn't dewormed will cause lower production, weight loss, and a myriad of other things.

Each goat's resistance will be different. 

Fecal analysis is your best method for knowing the "load". 
For example we have one goat never dewormed in 2 years. She had quads then quints never dewormed. Her kids are just shy of 8 months and she now has a load that she needs to be dewormed with. Probably due to lots of rain we have had has caused an increase. We run fecals to monitor and only deworm when necessary.

Here is more information on FAMACHA (eyelid quick check- NOT to be used alone)
and Fecal Analysis usinng McMasters Method.
these are 3 different articles. Good reading and if you still have questions about anything parasite just tag me.

This explains FAMACHA and FECALS-
http://www.backyardherds.com/resources/understanding-famacha-fecal-analysis.56/

This is detailed for the McMasters Method
PART 1
http://www.backyardherds.com/resources/the-mcmasters-method-fecal-analysis.55/
Part 2
http://www.backyardherds.com/resources/mcmasters-method-fecal-analysis-part2.57/


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 3, 2016)

MaggieSims said:


> Honesty, I last wormed in July, buy no fecals done, never had that done , I know I need to but I thought I should be prepared with what to ask the vet for. Do they have different kind of tests, or will they know what I mean? She is the only goat out of 7 that look like this. Her two sons from this year I kept as wethers and look amazing.


You can't judge by how the others
Look
I have
29 plump goats and 1 skinny


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 3, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> You can't judge by how the others
> Look
> I have
> 29 plump goats and 1 skinny


Well said! AND so TRUE!

We have a "touchy" Lamancha that is ridiculous about weight. 
We have a bunch of really fat goats right now that need to diet in order to be bred. Then a few with great condition ... not fat, not thin- just right. Then we have the one...  Miss "touchy" stomach.
One day she is 145 lbs then you turn around and she is 125... up and down... we run fecals all the time on her. I love her but she is tough to keep "just right".


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 3, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> She's looking a bit "undernourished"... thin/bony... Do you know how old she is? Do you know the quality of the hay you're giving her (tested?)? Have you been supplementing her with grain at all? Now or when you were milking her? She may be getting "enough" (quantity) to eat, but not enough nutrients from it, coupled with mineral deficiency (hair loss) and parasites (thin/hair loss)...



How do you have hay tested? She just finished a 600 lb bale of grass hay with her herd mates. I gave grain and milk pellets while I milked her but none since. Should I add a goat feed just for her?


----------



## babsbag (Sep 3, 2016)

Just take some fresh goat berries to your vet for the fecal. If they are familiar with livestock at all they should be able to do this with no problems and know exactly what to look for. There is always the chance that your wormer isn't working. 

I would goat feed or alfalfa pellets. Or alfalfa hay if you can get it.


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 3, 2016)

One more thing.

What did you deworm her with?

Most dewormers only kill 4th stage, so if a high load you need to repeat - the time frame is often slightly different for different dewormers.

For high loads I prefer Fenbendazole given 3 consecutive days... this gives a slower release and more steady stream in the sytem. It is gentle very low risk of any overdose.

There are 3 classes of dewormers and they work differently.


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 3, 2016)

Typically hay farmers will test their hay to be able to determine the nutrition breakdown. Aside from helping them market their hay based on quality, it allows the buyer to know what they're buying. I think if you reach out to your county extension service, they may be able to help you a lot. They can do soil/feed samples on your property to see if it's sufficient for your livestock, they may be able to help test the hay for you to see what you've got. IMHO, I think the parasite issue should looked into/be taken care of first. Then once that's identified as not/no longer an issue, if she doesn't start getting back into better shape, then you may want to supplement with a feed, grain, alfalfa pellets... something, to help her re-build. Important to note, as Southern said, you MUST follow the full course of treatment for dewormers. You can't just do one application and then figure it's all good. Then you also should do a follow up fecal a week or two later to make sure it worked.


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 3, 2016)

Agreed.  Regardless of hay or feed,  parasites will just rob her of the nutrition anyway.  Best to get some samples to a vet.  I brought some in earlier this summer and it cost $25 for them to tell me what kind of worms and the count.  They won't prescribe unless you have a relationship with them and they see her. Which is ideal,  but I know it can be expensive!


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 3, 2016)

You guys are so fast, I'm only on mobile right now so replies are taking a bit. Replying to all my questions soon, it's bedtime for my kids and I be back!


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 3, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> @Southern by choice has written articles on parasites, if you look them up on here that will get you started!



I will read these tonight or in the morning!!



Southern by choice said:


> Goats chew cud... is this just cud? They will keep cud in their cheek, rechew, and swallow.
> 
> 
> Make sure it isn't just her food - cud-
> ...



Not cud, if I don't help her remove it, she'll have chipmunk cheeks all day. I'm thinking the teeth could be causing issues too, I'm having to look around though to find someone to help with that. I live in the area (few hours drive) to WSU so last resort they can help.

I gave her one 4 gram capsule. Also gave another doe I got at the same time as Ali, who had classic copper signs, is already  showing coat improvement.

I bought her bred, also was given some (crude) instructions, I wormed her a week prior ( I'll reference my notes to sure) to kidding and a week after with safeguard, but only one dose, not consecutive like I'm reading about now



Latestarter said:


> Typically hay farmers will test their hay to be able to determine the nutrition breakdown. Aside from helping them market their hay based on quality, it allows the buyer to know what they're buying. I think if you reach out to your county extension service, they may be able to help you a lot. They can do soil/feed samples on your property to see if it's sufficient for your livestock, they may be able to help test the hay for you to see what you've got. IMHO, I think the parasite issue should looked into/be taken care of first. Then once that's identified as not/no longer an issue, if she doesn't start getting back into better shape, then you may want to supplement with a feed, grain, alfalfa pellets... something, to help her re-build. Important to note, as Southern said, you MUST follow the full course of treatment for dewormers. You can't just do one application and then figure it's all good. Then you also should do a follow up fecal a week or two later to make sure it worked.


I doubt what I'm buying had been tested, but I can certainly add more to her diet. I have her and the other I with her together right now.


----------



## babsbag (Sep 3, 2016)

It she is having a hard time with the hay maybe some alfalfa pellets would be easier.


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 4, 2016)

TE="babsbag, post: 445080, member: 1840"]It she is having a hard time with the hay maybe some alfalfa pellets would be easier.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't she need the long fiber, though?


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 4, 2016)

My guess is that suggestion was if she physically can't eat and/or digest the hay,  that's the next best (but not perfect)  option.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 4, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Just take some fresh goat berries to your vet for the fecal. If they are familiar with livestock at all they should be able to do this with no problems and know exactly what to look for. There is always the chance that your wormer isn't working.
> 
> I would goat feed or alfalfa pellets. Or alfalfa hay if you can get it.





NH homesteader said:


> My guess is that suggestion was if she physically can't eat and/or digest the hay,  that's the next best (but not perfect)  option.



I will be calling vet on Tues, to have her fecals done.

Should I start feeding both goat feed and alfalfa pellets or just one?


----------



## TAH (Sep 4, 2016)

MaggieSims said:


> I will be calling vet on Tues, to have her fecals done.
> 
> Should I start feeding both goat feed and alfalfa pellets or just one?


I would do both. But go slow with the alfalfa pellets.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 4, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> One more thing.
> 
> What did you deworm her with?
> 
> ...



I used safeguard for goats, but I'm sure used wrong, only one dose, I'll have to find my Heath book. This is a weak area for me, there are so many kinds, but little did just goats, plus some work for some and not for others, it's a sea of confusion. Ugh.


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 4, 2016)

It is very confusing.  Don't get discouraged...  Even though just yesterday I asked my husband why I had to fall for goats and I should have picked an easier animal! They're so worth it though!


----------



## babsbag (Sep 4, 2016)

Even the dose on the safeguard bottle is not what works for goats. So much of what works is because others have gone on before us and figured it out, that is why forums like this are such a great resource. Never be afraid to ask questions if you aren't clear about something. 

Yes, she would need the long fiber but not eating at all isn't going to work for her either. I would definitely give her both.  What does this wad of hay look like when you pull it out of her mouth? I have a hard time trying to figure out why she would pocket it like that. If she can chew it up enough to store it in her cheek why not swallow it? I know you said it isn't cud, but mine will keep a wad of cud in there darn near all day.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Sep 4, 2016)

How long have you been having to remove the stuck hay? 

This can happen when a goat has broken or missing back molars. Glad you noticed it, sadly some goats die of starvation or dehydration before it's noticed 
Have the vet look inside her mouth and see if s/he can figure out why this is happening. 
Have the fecal done as planned, hopefully it's just parasites and not her mouth issue causing this. 

You could try a few different feeds and see what works, like the others said alfalfa pellets would be a good start. You could try to get a sample of Chaffhaye and see if she would do better on that. Soaked beet pulp might be good as well. 

I agree with @babsbag on the Safeguard. If you gave the dose on the bottle and only 1 dose it probably didn't touch any parasites that she might have. 

Keep us posted!


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 5, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> How long have you been having to remove the stuck hay?
> 
> This can happen when a goat has broken or missing back molars. Glad you noticed it, sadly some goats die of starvation or dehydration before it's noticed
> Have the vet look inside her mouth and see if s/he can figure out why this is happening.
> ...



Really?? I'm sure it's stuck hay, rather than just cud. She will still regurgitate and get a big mouth full of actual cud, and still have the original stuck hay. I've mentioned it to my pet vet, but will be calling around to find a better goat vet. They acted like a goat wouldn't have teeth issues. I've really noticed since a couple months after i got her, but didn't quite know what it was until recently.


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 5, 2016)

How old is she? Do goats have teeth issues when they get older like horses I wonder? 

Why is it so hard to find a good goat vet? Arg!


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Sep 5, 2016)

Some goats do have teeth issues as they age, thankfully its not something I've encountered. I don't think its very common, but it can still happen.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 5, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> How old is she? Do goats have teeth issues when they get older like horses I wonder?
> 
> Why is it so hard to find a good goat vet? Arg!





Goat Whisperer said:


> Some goats do have teeth issues as they age, thankfully its not something I've encountered. I don't think its very common, but it can still happen.



I'll have to reference her papers , but I think she's 6. From what I've read too, teeth can become issues with random goats add they age. Hopefully I can find a vet close that will work on them.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 6, 2016)

OK, vet does fecals for $15!! Waiting for my husband to come back with my truck, then off to gather berries.

Will post results!!

And since it's cheap, I will do the other goat that is with her, that I got at the same place and time, although the second one looks fine.


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 6, 2016)

Put berries in plastic Baggie and put in fridge and then on ice to transport


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 6, 2016)

Really? What does keeping them cold do? I brought mine in room temperature,  now I'm wondering about  my results. Of course it was a 10 minute drive.


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 6, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Really? What does keeping them cold do? I brought mine in room temperature,  now I'm wondering about  my results. Of course it was a 10 minute drive.



they start hatching


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 6, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> they start hatching



The eggs hatch in cold? Or keeps FROM hatching?


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 6, 2016)

Keeping the fecal cold prevents hatching.

I ran a fecal last week... very inaccurate count because there were only 2 eggs but there were so many that had hatched it was crazy...


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 6, 2016)

Good to know!


----------



## TAH (Sep 6, 2016)

We will be doing our own fecals for our goats.  due to the fact we won't have a goat, cow, horse vet around.


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 6, 2016)

TAH said:


> We will be doing our own fecals due to the fact we won't have a goat, cow, horse.



Umm... re read that...  do you know what that sounds like.


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 6, 2016)




----------



## TAH (Sep 6, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Umm... re read that...  do you know what that sounds like.


Sorry our phone rewrites what I say. I said goats and vet and it won't register it as a word so it changes it.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 6, 2016)

OK, dropped off the... Droppings. Left while they tested, truck didn't start at the grocery store, had to be towed home. Hubs discovered one of my batteries is gone. Some one stole ONE battery. Why not both? Why one at all?

Any who, will be at vets when they open, called them and they said she did have a high worm load, so treatment of the whole herd was needed. Will find exact info on the morning. 

Now I'm freaking out, worried, pacing. Ugh. Sleepless night I'm sure.


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 6, 2016)

Don't worry. 

If the counts are real high sometimes it is best to do a 3 day course of the fenbendazole 10% this helps parasite load  to detach slower and less likely for internal bleed out. Then 10 days later do a different dewormer.

See what the vet recommends. Just keep in mind VERY high loads can cause serious issues when deworming.

Probios and vitamins are always good for the gut when deworming.


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 6, 2016)

I'm not an expert so no advice.  I just wanted to say good luck! And your vet will help you through the whole thing. 

And seriously who steals a battery? Did no one notice? That's bizarre. But then again I live in a small town.


----------



## babsbag (Sep 6, 2016)

Sorry about the battery. UGH!!! People sometime make me want to just go and hide and not be associated with the human race. 

@Southern by choice by choice gave good advice, worm slowly if the worm load is high. Sometimes the treatment can be as dangerous as the worms if there are a lot of them. 

Hopefully this will get her back on track.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 7, 2016)

Wow , the vets office was super busy, but basically she was loaded with coccidia, apparently 3 different kinds? And one type of stomach worm, I can't remember what it was called, I asked 3 times, but i still forgot. She gave me 2 kinds of meds to treat the whole herd. Asked to bring a group poo for testing in 2 weeks. Fortunately, she is easy to medicate, actually all but 2 are, she thinks the drench gun means something tasty, as I usually add maple syrup to make drenching easy.


----------



## babsbag (Sep 7, 2016)

Was the stomach worm Barber Pole? Or the "real" name is Haemonchus contortus. That is probably the most common one that causes problems.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 7, 2016)

No I don't think so, I thought it started with an 'S', but I've been trying to research it and can't find anything that looked familiar to what I remember her saying.


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 7, 2016)

did he say strongyles


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Sep 7, 2016)

Strongyles is probably the parasites eggs the vet saw. 

Don't stress too much, this has been a rough year for many You did the right thing and got the fecals to the vet, now you can proceed to treat them


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 7, 2016)

Strongyles


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Sep 7, 2016)

**posting at the same time as SBC & OFA


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 7, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> **posting at the same time as SBC & OFA


I had to look up the spelling


----------



## babsbag (Sep 7, 2016)

Guess we have that "s" word covered.


----------



## Sweetened (Sep 8, 2016)

Something that hasn't been addressed: The copper deficiency.

Boluses are something that I have fought and fought with vets over here and they will NOT prescribe them to me because they're "not indicated for goats".  I could order from Jeffers, but, randomly, the border will refuse and abandon your parcel and you're out the money.  Loose minerals were not doing SQUAT for us and I had a goat come completely bald in days.  If I touched her, hair fell out.  I could pull it with ease -- I discovered it when the buck was mounting her and all the hair had rubbed off.  

We converted to the brown selenium cattle blocks as they have the highest copper content we could find.  Problem.  Solved.

It has been a rough year for worm load.  A friend of mine got home a couple weeks ago to find her two beloved bucks dropped dead on the new pasture.  They got the necropsy back from the university today and their wormload was overwhelming.  Conditions were perfect: hot dry weather, cold damp rain, hot damp weather.  Boom, bloom, system overload, fell over dead.  I have had a lot of luck, anecdotally, with free choice Diatomaceous earth and/or adding it to a ration.  I use the RED STUFF (called red lake), because it's food/feed grade and the mine it's pulled from has bentonite in it.  Bentonite is a known cleanser and purger.  It assists the liver in detox.  I have used the white stuff and found it does not work as well and I feel it's the bentonite that makes the difference.  If you add this to their diet and not free choice, you MUST continue it for 14 days MINIMUM without fail.  If you do not, the system can become toxic with die off and they (any animal) can drop dead from the toxicity.

@Southern by choice has given you the best advice here concerning treating your goats, what to use etc.  Diatomaceous Earth is slow acting and best for prevention: you need to hit this hard and fast!  Treat again in 3 weeks to break the cycle.


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 8, 2016)

@Sweetened, I ordered copper boluses off Amazon for a good price.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Sep 8, 2016)

@Sweetened the goat had copper already-


MaggieSims said:


> 2, copper deficiency, really since I got her. But I couldn't find copper bolus anywhere so I got good loose minerals. After she shed winter coat I brushed her and all her black hair on her sides and back fell out. I ordered some ASAP and dosed her August 23rd.





MaggieSims said:


> I gave her one 4 gram capsule


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 8, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> @Sweetened the goat had copper already-


Oops


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 8, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> did he say strongyles





Goat Whisperer said:


> Strongyles is probably the parasites eggs the vet saw.
> 
> Don't stress too much, this has been a rough year for many You did the right thing and got the fecals to the vet, now you can proceed to treat them





OneFineAcre said:


> Strongyles




Strongyles, that's what it was!! And 3 different kinds of coccidia?? Are multiple kinds once common?


And yes, I did give her copper, on the 23 Rd of August. I ordered goat specific copper bolus from Amazon. Com.


----------



## misfitmorgan (Sep 8, 2016)

Ive only ever heard of one kind of Cocci....


----------



## babsbag (Sep 8, 2016)

I had to go and look it up, there are numerous kids of cocci in goats. Who knew?

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/digestive_system/coccidiosis/coccidiosis_of_goats.html


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 8, 2016)

Yes, there are different kinds. Also different kinds are in different species.


----------



## misfitmorgan (Sep 8, 2016)

babsbag said:


> I had to go and look it up, there are numerous kids of cocci in goats. Who knew?
> 
> http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/digestive_system/coccidiosis/coccidiosis_of_goats.html



Interesting....guess it makes sense, since other parasites have many kinds. i know cocci isnt a parasite per say lol.

Glad you found the problem. i am starting to think cocci are more responsible for thin and balding adult goats then people give credit for. General consensus is that adult goats handle cocci pretty well except when moved sometimes but im thinking some are just more affected by them then others. Anytime anyone has a balding, thin goat our first thought is copper but maybe it should be copper or cocci. Just a thought.


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 8, 2016)

The most common is Eimeria arloingi

But yes, there are others.

I have given quite a few links I think are interesting.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21247039
http://sciencejournal.in/data/documents/TPR-Vol-4-3-4_1.pdf

http://nexusacademicpublishers.com/uploads/files/Nexus__14.pdf



misfitmorgan said:


> Anytime anyone has a balding, thin goat our first thought is copper but maybe it should be copper or cocci. Just a thought.



Selenium deficiency has a greater likelihood of causing baldness, losing hair, thinning hair.


Map for Selenium levels by county in US
http://mrdata.usgs.gov/geochem/doc/averages/countydata.htm


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 8, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> i know cocci isnt a parasite per say lol


Coccidia are parasites. They're not worms, though, they're protozoans.


----------



## Sweetened (Sep 8, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Oops


sorry, I was indicating that I had better luck with the solid blocks rather than loose mineral


----------



## misfitmorgan (Sep 8, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Coccidia are parasites. They're not worms, though, they're protozoans.



Oh yep your right i was thinking cocci isnt a parasi....ic worm lol...my brain isnt all the way on today to close to friday.


Southern by choice said:


> The most common is Eimeria arloingi
> 
> But yes, there are others.
> 
> ...



Yes selenium as well....but in my case as well as at least 4 others i have seen recently it turned out not to be CAE, copper, or selenium but it was cocci causing it. It's another thing to be mindful of anyhow when those symptoms present themselves.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 11, 2016)

Well miss Ali is on her last day of wormer meds, she looks the same and acts the same, but hopefully she will start gaining weight. I have goat chow I am starting slowly for her, and does anyone have experience with chaffhay? It's the compressed alfalfa hay in a bag? Will it work like alfalfa cubes?


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 11, 2016)

Chaffhaye is loose you basically give so much per weight of the goat.

Some goats take a little longer to want to eat it. When we first started many turned their nose up at it and wouldn't eat it. BUT we were introducing it on the milkstand. We ended up using the "herd" mentality... we set 3 troughs out put the chaffhaye in them and it worked like a charm! The "I have to have what they are having and can't be left out" thing is what had them all eating it in no time.

We still leave hay out. Give them chaff and feed.

*The chaffhaye really helped condition the goats. *
Just keep in mind you need to use the bag up in a timely manner. Keeping the Chaffhaye in a cool place is important. 
Mid summer when it got real hot we stopped using it and we will start back up in the fall. We have plenty of forage in summer.

Our babies are raised with it free choice in their trough.

Also- our goats are OCD NOTHING can touch other foods.
Chaff goes in one thing. Alfalfa pellets another. Feed in another.
Beet pulp in another.
If the alfalfa pellets are in with their feed pellets they wo't eat it. If the beet pulp is mixed with anything -same. 

We use the alfalfa pellets on occasion.  When we are not using Chaff. The beet pulp is something we just brought back in... our goats would never touch it. They are now, since we figured out they just don't want it touching their other food.
Goats.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 11, 2016)

OK, well this little feed store that just opened up is the only I've in town with it, and they are pushing it. But not many are trying it. But I like the store and support it by buying most of my stuff there, and they are willing to order and stock stuff I'll use most. But I've been toying with the idea of it, since sometimes small bales of alfalfa are hard to get. I guess I'll pop in and buy some.

I've been finding clumps of chewed hay, I think she's spitting out. After the group poo gets tested in a week or so, she is getting those teeth looked at. 

What is beet pulp? I remember a friend a long time ago giving to her horses in winter, but I don't remember why?


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 11, 2016)

It is what is left after the removal of the sugars from Beets. It adds fiber and is suppose to help with weight.

What breed is she again?


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 11, 2016)

She's registered standard Nubian. But on the shorter side. I bet maybe 100 lbs? She used to be 130 aprox, but she's lost so much.


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 11, 2016)

Hmmm I have a few thoughts. I will pm you though.


----------



## babsbag (Sep 11, 2016)

Manna Pro has a product called Calf Manna. It is really good for adding condition and you don't give much, maybe 1/2 cup...it says on the bag. My goats love it but make sure you keep it locked up as it is very high in protein and more is not better. 

My goats like the chaffhaye as well, but for me it was too difficult to feed as I feed over a fence and it doesn't toss as well as alfalfa. Plus I have no problem getting alfalfa in CA. My entire herd of 43 goats eat alfalfa...1200-1400 lbs in 8 days.


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 11, 2016)

Thank you for reminding  me why I don't have 43 goats.  Wow.


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 11, 2016)

So one large square bale (12-1400 pounds) per week, at a cost of... ummmm... never mind... @babsbag  ouch...


----------



## babsbag (Sep 11, 2016)

170.00


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 11, 2016)

Even bigger ouch!


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 11, 2016)

babsbag said:


> 170.00


This is what you pay for a bale? I thought it was less expensive where you are.

Our bales are 1000-1200 lbs.
Alfalfa runs- 160-180
Alfalfa mix-150-160
Orchard- 100


----------



## OneFineAcre (Sep 11, 2016)

babsbag said:


> 170.00


Another reason I love my Nigies


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 15, 2016)

okie dokie. turns out she has teeth issues. we knew that. she only has one front tooth left, and needs possible work on the back molars.

WHAT IS THE EASIEST FOR HER TO EAT, I ASSUME SHE WILL NEED A SPECIAL DIET?


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 17, 2016)

ok, Ali update...

She is looking the same. Although I have her separated, she is sharing a fenceline with her buddies, but now gets endless hay, which she seems to not want as much now that i added goat chow. i have been adding a little by little each day, and soak it in water. she slurps it wight up.  Turns out her back teeth weren't as much of an issue as her front, THEY ARE GONE? (i do know there are none on the top, duh)where did they go? no one knows. she has one snaggle tooth left in the front there, but the rest are gone, and i know she had them not too long ago, ive been searching in my photos, because i remember a funny one where her teeth were up on her lip....


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

MaggieSims said:


> ok, Ali update...
> 
> She is looking the same. Although I have her separated, she is sharing a fenceline with her buddies, but now gets endless hay, which she seems to not want as much now that i added goat chow. i have been adding a little by little each day, and soak it in water. she slurps it wight up.  Turns out her back teeth weren't as much of an issue as her front, THEY ARE GONE? (i do know there are none on the top, duh)where did they go? no one knows. she has one snaggle tooth left in the front there, but the rest are gone, and i know she had them not too long ago, ive been searching in my photos, because i remember a funny one where her teeth were up on her lip....


How old is she again?


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

Goats do loose their "baby" teeth, but not all at once...


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 17, 2016)

she is 7, so not a yungin'


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 17, 2016)

the one remaining tooth is solid. the rest have full gum coverage, apart from one, looks like a stub left.


----------



## Green Acres Farm (Sep 17, 2016)

MaggieSims said:


> the one remaining tooth is solid. the rest have full gum coverage, apart from one, looks like a stub left.


Did the vet have any idea why?


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 17, 2016)

omg, i wonder if my feeders were to blame? maybe she was chomping down on the metal part thinking she was grabbing hay? i made some slow feeders with 2x4 welded wire fencing and i though they were sticking their noses thru by maybe she was chewing on wire too?


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 17, 2016)

vets been crazy busy with cattle, i have to take her in, and my truck is BROKEN, turd of a ford.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 17, 2016)

block, yuuuus. for a while. am i naughty? is this a no no?


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 17, 2016)

yes, changing to loose minerals. how do you know they get enough??


----------



## NH homesteader (Sep 17, 2016)

They (usually)  monitor themselves fairly well. There have been  discussions about minerals on here for the past couple days that have more information.  But the  basics would be that they may pig out on them at first because they're really needing the minerals,  then should slow down to a "maintenance"  amount.


----------



## Latestarter (Sep 17, 2016)

Like anything else, start them slow... build them up to free choice.


----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 30, 2016)

OKie dokie, its been awhile since i have updated!!

Ali has improved some, its slow, but I feel confident she will continue to gain, but i bet she will always be sensitive.

I had a fecal again done on tues, all the strongyles was gone, but still a bit of cocci, so vet recommended another round for that. But vet was happy for the wormload improvement. Her teeth have worn down a bit on her molars and she is not holding as much hay in her mouth as she had. I have started her on goat chow for easy to eat nutrition if she feels like not eating hay, but she seems to eat fine. I have moved her to a much larger, fresh pasture with 2 mini nubian does. she is loving life, happy, looking much better. Her coat is growing underfluff so the copper must have settled right and working.

Thanks to all who have helped me understand worming better and overall input on this thread!


----------



## Southern by choice (Sep 30, 2016)




----------



## MaggieSims (Sep 30, 2016)

yes yes, i'll try to find a before pic and i'll take a new one to show the difference. i'll prob post those tomorrow


----------



## TAH (Sep 30, 2016)

Way to go...


----------



## MaggieSims (Nov 13, 2016)

its been a while, so i thought i'd come back to add more pictures.

This was taken this spring, her kids were so little then, they are big boys now!! She has all her hair, but you can see her condition was already leaving, I was milking at this time.



 


    


Fast forward a few months to today (errr yesterday i took these)


----------

