# Milk Production



## Nathan Justice (Jun 7, 2016)

Hey there! I am new to the Backyard Herd Forum. I recently bought a couple dairy goats. A Buck and Doe. I am milking the doe. My question is, I was milking once a day, but I started milking twice day. I increased how many times a day I milk to see if it increased milk production. So far, I am getting the same amount. Only a quart. Is there anything I could try to increase milk production? I have thought about adding Probiotics to my doe's feed. I also heard that Black Oil sunflower seeds are good as well. Thanks so much in advance!


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## Latestarter (Jun 7, 2016)

Greetings Nathan and welcome to BYH! I don't know the answer to your question and I know there have been several other threads about increasing/decreasing production, just not sure when or where I saw them  I'll tag a couple of goat pros and hope one or more come on and answer you. They may need more info like; what breed, how old, when did she kid (how long in milk), what are you feeding her and how much (takes a LOT of energy to produce milk), those sorts of things.  Mean time, do browse around  the goat section, there's a wealth of info and shared knowledge/experiences. Oh, we're all picture addicts here so if you have some you could share, we'll all appreciate it! Glad you joined 

@Goat Whisperer @OneFineAcre @babsbag @Hens and Roos @frustratedearthmother @Southern by choice  and so many others!


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## ldawntaylor (Jun 7, 2016)

I'm sure some of the others have some pointers for you.  But, my first question this time of year is what is the water situation.  An adult goat can drink a lot.  And one key component in milk is water.

Two more questions come to my mind immediately.  Which breed?  Alpine, LaMancha, Toggenberg, Oberhasli, or the sometimes more familiar Nubian?

The other question...was this kidding season her first?

The two I'm milking are only giving a quart each but that is a once a day milking with their kids being on them the rest of the time.

So many things can impact milk production.  But answers to these will help others to give you a more complete answer in return.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 7, 2016)

1. What breed?
2. When did she kid?
3. How many kids did she have?
4. What are you feeding her?


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## TAH (Jun 7, 2016)

Welcome.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 7, 2016)

How far into lactation is she, and for how long was she being milked just once per day.  Depending upon that, you probably aren't going to be able to boost her much.

Probiotics in the feed isn't going to make a difference.  I don't think BOSS either.  What kind of hay are you feeding her?


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 7, 2016)

Prettt much echoing the above. Once you answer those questions mentioned, we can go from there. 

Is she bred? You saw you have 1 doe and 1 buck, are they separated? It is not wise to run bucks and does together unless you are trying to get her bred. The standard breeds are seasonal, but Nigerian Dwarf goats cycle year-round. 

When was she last wormed? If she has a parasite load it could cause low milk output. It would be wise to have a fecal run on her anyway, moving a goat to its new home pretty much guarantees a parasitic bloom. 

Sometimes a doe will drop in production after a move and it can be difficult to get back up. What was she milking before you brought her home?


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 7, 2016)

Thanks everyone for the advice! She last kidded a few months ago. I think this was her second kidding. She had twins.When I bought her the kids were almost weaned but she had milk. However, this is her first year milking.  I feed her a Non-GMO food. I recently added sunflower seed. She eats all she wants on the stand. She does not get hay because she is on grass all day long. They are both Nubians and I am running them together to hopefully see if they breed. I don't have a place to keep my Buck separated and I hate to get rid of him.


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## babsbag (Jun 7, 2016)

What everyone else said. The protein level in her feed is important too. I feed straight alfalfa to my milking does and they get a 16% protein grain on the milk stand.


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## babsbag (Jun 7, 2016)

Your grass is not going to give her the protein that she needs to make milk. A Nubian doe that was nursing twins that were recently weaned should be giving you more milk than that. They usually peak production at about 8 weeks but it can drop off sharply if they aren't milked after the kids are removed. I would continue to milk 2 x a day and get her some hay, preferably alfalfa and make sure her feed is high in protein. Nubians are eating machines, but it takes good quality feed to make milk.  She may not do any more than what she is this year, it may be too late.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 7, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Your grass is not going to give her the protein that she needs to make milk. A Nubian doe that was nursing twins that were recently weaned should be giving you more milk than that. They usually peak production at about 8 weeks but it can drop off sharply if they aren't milked after the kids are removed. I would continue to milk 2 x a day and get her some hay, preferably alfalfa and make sure her feed is high in protein. Nubians are eating machines, but it takes good quality feed to make milk.  She may not do any more than what she is this year, it may be too late.


Oh I see. I will definitely try the Alfalfa. I thought that the grass was good enough. I throw some Kudzu in with them but I don't throw much in there. Just enough for a Snack.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 7, 2016)

babsbag said:


> Your grass is not going to give her the protein that she needs to make milk. A Nubian doe that was nursing twins that were recently weaned should be giving you more milk than that. They usually peak production at about 8 weeks but it can drop off sharply if they aren't milked after the kids are removed. I would continue to milk 2 x a day and get her some hay, preferably alfalfa and make sure her feed is high in protein. Nubians are eating machines, but it takes good quality feed to make milk.  She may not do any more than what she is this year, it may be too late.


x2


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## Goat Whisperer (Jun 7, 2016)

x3 Babsbag's post!

I'm a little irritated that the breeder didn't go over the proper feeding schedule 

Because they haven't been on hay since you brought them home, transition it SLOWLY until they can have it free choice. You don't want them overeating on it causing things like overeating disease, bloat, etc. Are they current on their CDT shots?

Do you have a good loose mineral out for them?

What is the does body condition looking like? I know you want her bred, but if she is underweight you really would want to hold off. 

Watch her closely for milk fever and ketosis.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 8, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> x3 Babsbag's post!
> 
> I'm a little irritated that the breeder didn't go over the proper feeding schedule
> 
> ...


The lady I got her and the buck from did not milk her. She had plans to milk her but didn't get to start this year. She had her on Sweet feed and regular hay. Twice daily. She and the buck are very healthy goats. They aren't thin at all. But also, after upping her feed and adding the sunflower seed and probiotic, I got a half of a quart this morning and full quart tonight. She has increased a lot within the last 48 hours since I had started those. I added alfalfa this morning.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 8, 2016)

BOSS is not good long term the Calcium Phosphorus Ration is very bad and will cause issues. 
1/4 cup has 27.3 mg Calcium but 231mg Phosphorus

Phosphorus is almost 10x Calcium.


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## babsbag (Jun 8, 2016)

Glad that her production is increasing.

Perhaps a little Calf Manna sprinkled on her grain on the stand. I think it is about 20% protein or more if my memory serves me right. I used to feed BOSS, about a 1/4 c. a day and I think all it did was make their coats look better, didn't help the milk production.  Also kelp is good as a treat and the goats usually love it. There are a lot of show feeds out there, especially this being show and fair time most everywhere. Just be sure none of the feed is medicated for cocci if you buy anything extra.  Beet pulp is another good food for milkers. They make pellets and shredded, I have fed both. Some say you are supposed to soak the stuff as it will swell in the rumen but I have never done that, and never knew that when I started. But I only give maybe a 1/2 cup to each goat when I milk.


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## alsea1 (Jun 8, 2016)

Do some research and plant an herb garden for your goats.  There are many herbs that help with overall health and production. Fennugreek comes to mind.
Be careful about what you feed your buck. Their anatomy makes them easy targets for urinary stones which usually does not end well. Been there, done that. Very sad.  Calcium to phosphorus ratio is critical. Does can usually pass any stones but bucks not so much.
Calf manna is great. I use it. Smells like licorice. My goats love the stuff.
Also genetics plays a big role in milk output. In order to know what to expect it would be helpful to know the goats lineage. Some goats are great producers whereas some are just so so. 
One thing is true. Feed changes need to be gradual or you risk an upset rumen.  
I try to have kids arrive no earlier than march. The weather is much easier to deal with kids if its not freezing and what not.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 9, 2016)

I have a whole bag of shredded Beet Pulp in my barn. I used to feed it to my horses, but when I had to put down my older horse a few months ago  and I moved my second horse to another pasture, I didn't need it. I will try adding beet pulp as well. I have been looking to use it, just didn't know if it was good for goats or not. Should I give the buck the beet pulp as well? I normally just give him about a cup of feed with 5g of probiotic in it. He doesn't get the Sunflower seed or Alfalfa. He is on grass all day long plus the feed.


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## alsea1 (Jun 9, 2016)

If your buck is in good weight I would not bother giving him anything extra. Just make sure he has access to a loose mineral made for goats. Sheep mineral is not adequate. Sheep cannot tolerate copper whereas goats need it.
If you have access to brush,blackberry bushes that would be a welcome addition to any goats diet. They are geared to browse more like deer than cattle. 
They also love prize rose bushes. LOL


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## Southern by choice (Jun 9, 2016)

Alfalfa is good for your buck. It is *not* CALCIUM that causes stones. It is phosphorus. 
My goats won't touch beet pulp but you can try it. Some goats love it.
Remember grass does not give all the nutrients you need. Fresh grass has a great deal of moisture so that is mostly water... MINERALS are a must for your buck. Leaves, vines, tree branches etc will be much better nutritionally.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 9, 2016)

alsea1 said:


> If your buck is in good weight I would not bother giving him anything extra. Just make sure he has access to a loose mineral made for goats. Sheep mineral is not adequate. Sheep cannot tolerate copper whereas goats need it.
> If you have access to brush,blackberry bushes that would be a welcome addition to any goats diet. They are geared to browse more like deer than cattle.
> They also love prize rose bushes. LOL


My mom knows that all to well. When we had about 20 goats, they all got out and ate everyone of her flowers. Needless to say, we sold all the goats LOL. However, I plan to get loose mineral today or tomorrow. I tried a block but they didn't like it as good.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 9, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Alfalfa is good for your buck. It is *not* CALCIUM that causes stones. It is phosphorus.
> My goats won't touch beet pulp but you can try it. Some goats love it.
> Remember grass does not give all the nutrients you need. Fresh grass has a great deal of moisture so that is mostly water... MINERALS are a must for your buck. Leaves, vines, tree branches etc will be much better nutritionally.


My buck doesn't get anything but his pelleted feed, the probiotic and grass. Some Kudzu too.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 9, 2016)

Your buck is going to need more than grass. If not and you are feeding him pellets/grain you are setting him up for UC.
How big is he? My lamancha buck is 225 and Nubians are generally larger than that... no way he will keep condition off grass.
Kudzu is good!


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 9, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Your buck is going to need more than grass. If not and you are feeding him pellets/grain you are setting him up for UC.
> How big is he? My lamancha buck is 225 and Nubians are generally larger than that... no way he will keep condition off grass.
> Kudzu is good!


Oh okay! He only gets about a cup of pellets. I don't give him anymore than that. But he isn't to big. He might weigh 100 pounds. But the doe on the other hand is much larger. Probably 125 to 130.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 9, 2016)

That isn't too much... he should be fine as long as your feed is Ca: p ratio is 2:1 or better up to 4:1 is good.

Is he young?

In summer early spring and early fall our Kikos live in the woods. They eat vines, leaves, vines, vines, and vines. 

They are BEAST!

They have zero pasture. Winter they live in the woods but they must be hayed, fed as there is nothing for them to eat.

These goats are Kiko does (not the black one) they have pasture but being goats that isn't what they like... all the heads off the grasses are gone... notice the rest is all tall.   We normally would have them in the woods now but we have a lot on our plate and cannot run the wire.








Boys-


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## Latestarter (Jun 9, 2016)

Every time I see that picture of the buck I just think "Awesome".


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 9, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> That isn't too much... he should be fine as long as your feed is Ca ratio is 2:1 or better up to 4:1 is good.
> 
> Is he young?
> 
> ...


Those are beautiful goats! My two have access to the woods but spend most of their time in the pasture. I think it's because they are closer to the feed room Haha! But I think I am going to try Alfalfa Pellets for them. How much should I give them?


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## babsbag (Jun 9, 2016)

I have never fed pellets as the main food so I can't really suggest an amount. But if you can find a mineral that ammonium chloride it in for your buck that would be good. But my bucks get straight alfalfa hay and a loose mineral and do great, no grain at all, but I live in CA and alfalfa hay is plentiful here and cheaper than grass hay.  I fed a wether wheat hay one time before I new better and he goat UC and I had to put him down. Most everyone I know that raises goats in my area feeds straight alfalfa to all their goats and adds a grain ration to the milkers on the stand. Some supplement the does again right before the freshen but I don't.  I feed 1200-1400 lbs of alfalfa a week to 40 adult goats and 15 kids. 

My goats love the beet pulp, @Southern by choice just has picky goats.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 9, 2016)

babsbag said:


> I have never fed pellets as the main food so I can't really suggest an amount. But if you can find a mineral that ammonium chloride it in for your buck that would be good. But my bucks get straight alfalfa hay and a loose mineral and do great, no grain at all, but I live in CA and alfalfa hay is plentiful here and cheaper than grass hay.  I fed a wether wheat hay one time before I new better and he goat UC and I had to put him down. Most everyone I know that raises goats in my area feeds straight alfalfa to all their goats and adds a grain ration to the milkers on the stand. Some supplement the does again right before the freshen but I don't.  I feed 1200-1400 lbs of alfalfa a week to 40 adult goats and 15 kids.
> 
> My goats love the beet pulp, @Southern by choice just has picky goats.



Oh okay. Do I need to soak the beet pulp, or can I just give it to them dry?


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## babsbag (Jun 9, 2016)

That is a huge debate. I always give mine dry. Some say soak the pellets and not the shredded, some say don't soak either, some say soak both. Some say soak for horses and not for goats. I think that if you are only giving a cup or so at a time they will be fine dry.  Look for calf Manna too and only give it to the doe on the milk stand, and just a handful mixed into her other grain. Mine LOVE it but I almost lost a doe when she sneaked into the barn and helped herself to about a quart or more at one time.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 9, 2016)

babsbag said:


> That is a huge debate. I always give mine dry. Some say soak the pellets and not the shredded, some say don't soak either, some say soak both. Some say soak for horses and not for goats. I think that if you are only giving a cup or so at a time they will be fine dry.  Look for calf Manna too and only give it to the doe on the milk stand, and just a handful mixed into her other grain. Mine LOVE it but I almost lost a doe when she sneaked into the barn and helped herself to about a quart or more at one time.


I was confused on if I should or not. I wouldn't give her no more than a handful per milking, which is twice a day. The buck would get very little to none a day. I will try all of these ideas and see which one suits me and my small herd of two the best. Thanks everyone for the advice! It sure has helped. God Bless.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 9, 2016)

Also, about how much do ya'll charge per gallon? Since I am feeding Non-GMO feed, I didn't know if that made a difference


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## Southern by choice (Jun 9, 2016)

@babsbag  is right I have weird picky goats. 
They will throw the alfalfa pellets out, They won't eat them. 
So I don't know how much pellet to feed.
I don't feed any sweet feeds...  my goats are so weird they won't touch any kind of sweet anything.

Minerals are a must!

I agree everyone needs to do what works for their herd but keep in mind you have many experienced people that just want to give a heads up. Sadly we see goats go downhill, mineral deficient, parasitic the list goes on and goats drop dead and for the most part most things can be prevented.

I have one Nubian ... we have 47 goats total. I can tell you minerals are essential. Milk production is best achieved by good diet. We don't "push" our goats to produce but we do provide forage, alfalfa/orchard hay and feed on the stand. 

Not sure of your region but copper /selenium are two biggies in many regions where additional supplementation may be necessary. 

As far as selling milk- Unless you are a graded dairy it is illegal to sell milk in my state. We can sell for animal use but milk must be labeled in a particular way and must say NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.  I think here people sell for $8-$10 gallon. We don't sell it... not worth the risk IMO.


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## alsea1 (Jun 10, 2016)

It is legal in Oregon to sell off the farm if you have under a certain number of animals.
I cannot remember what that number is.
The going rate in my area is six to ten per gal.
Anytime you sell something to the public there is def. risk involved with ending up in court. 
I inform them that I have not pasteurized the milk.  I give out a sheet on how to pasteurize the milk and suggest that they do so for safety.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 10, 2016)

Nathan Justice said:


> Also, about how much do ya'll charge per gallon? Since I am feeding Non-GMO feed, I didn't know if that made a difference


Probably makes  difference to some people

What is the feed if you don't mind me asking ?


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 10, 2016)

OneFineAcre said:


> Probably makes  difference to some people
> 
> What is the feed if you don't mind me asking ?


Tucker Milling is the producer. It is produced in Guntersville, AL. It is Non-GMO and Soy free. It is the Multi Species.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 10, 2016)

Nathan Justice said:


> Tucker Milling is the producer. It is produced in Guntersville, AL. It is Non-GMO and Soy free. It is the Multi Species.


Is this it?
http://www.tuckermilling.com/nongmo.html

It does not list everything on the label. If you can grab a tag and get a picture. 

Often Multi- species feeds are NOT great for goats, usually the Ca/P ratio is way off. 
There is a place locally here I looked into and it was formulated for goats but the ratios were so off  there is no way I would feed it.


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## alsea1 (Jun 11, 2016)

After losing a really nice buck to urinary stones I quit feeding my bucks grain altogether.  They eat grass hay and brush. They keep a healthy weight. Of course if that changes I will be on the hunt for a safe concentrate.
In my area organic non gmo feeds are way out of my price range.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 11, 2016)

alsea1 said:


> After losing a really nice buck to urinary stones I quit feeding my bucks grain altogether.  They eat grass hay and brush. They keep a healthy weight. Of course if that changes I will be on the hunt for a safe concentrate.
> In my area organic non gmo feeds are way out of my price range.



We feed all our bucks but only a small amount. The Ca/P ratio is good and we give alfalfa/orchard hay and they have the land. 
So far so good.  
We only do the feed because we need a better balance. Winter they have nothing so they are basically dry lot and being in rut they need the calories etc.

If the land will support them and they are gettingminerals  and not losing condition then stick with that. 

There is no one right way as we all know... it just takes time to see what works for you.


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## alsea1 (Jun 12, 2016)

I think location has a lot to do with it. I am in Oregon and the vegetation is lush and booming.
The only thing lacking is a good selenium content to the grass and hay. That gets fixed via a mineral mix that our vet puts out. It is geared for this area.
I'm just hoping the summer is a mild one.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 13, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Is this it?
> http://www.tuckermilling.com/nongmo.html
> 
> It does not list everything on the label. If you can grab a tag and get a picture.
> ...


Yes this is it. It is only 14% protein but I mix in a Dairy goat feed with it, It has a protein of 20%.. I only mix them so my feed will last longer. Its cheaper.


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## Nathan Justice (Jun 13, 2016)

I also seen my buck chasing and trying to ride my doe the other morning, so I am hoping she is or will be bred in the near future, like next few days.


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