# Rifles and pistols and shotguns oh my!



## greybeard

I had the occasion this last Christmas to host our annual family get together and noon dinner, which was to be served at 1pm. In years past, we tended to sit around after dinner and watch football, but this year, I decided on a different kind of activity and included in the invitations "We will be shooting the guns after dinner--bring 'em if ya got 'em".  I knew most had at least one, even my two older sisters--in their 60s and 70s. (I'll be 65 in a few months) I had built a bullet backstop down near one of the waterways on my center property, out of railroad 8"x9"x8' cross ties and it has an earthen berm behind it and about 1/2 mile of open pasture even beyond that.  I was a bit taken back by the number of weapons that were brought tho. My oldest sister brought her skeet equipment and several cases of clay pigeons. My brother brought his lever action 42-30, there were an assortment of shotguns, my sks, a 30-30, a 30-06, my 20 ga Mossy, 270 Weatherby, my sis-in-laws 243, and a few others I have forgotten.

Our target--150 yards away:











A few of the long guns:





My brother's blackpowder pistol:





My son and grandson shooting skeet off to the side:





My sis-in-law with her .243:





The other girls getting ready to move down closer for the pistol part:




I'll continue in the next post as I don't know how many pics I can embed in a single post, but a great time was had by all. The orange containers on the table above is Tannerite. It explodes when hit by a high velocity round and was a great success as well--we blew up a couple of stumps with it.


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## greybeard

This last Saturday, I had some friends coming down from Dallas to pick up a car I had lost interest in and they, knowing I had lots of room, asked if they could do some shooting while they were here. Again, I was surprised how much gear they brought down.

First, just because, I'll show the group, in front of the car in question-I'm the older gentleman with the grey beard--hence my username.






First up, and before everybody else had a chance to don their ear protection was one of my friends trying out my SKS.





I had set some targets out a little closer for the pistoleros so we didn't have to walk down to the main targets.






This AR Blackout was a new experience for me, and wife now wants one. That's my wonderful partner in the grey jacket. The bucket is for expended brass--it got about 1/4 full before the day was out.





My wife trying out the AR while others spotted. Can you guess what she's shooting at?





(One of the guys is spotting for her with my Weatherby .270)


She's setting off Tannerite--it has to be mixed before use:






I don't remember what this one is, but I tried it and liked it as well tho it is lighter than what I would normally like to use:





The same weapon in action. The canvas bandoleer on the table holds 100 rounds in stripper clips of 7.62/39 ammo for my SKS. I buy it by the battle pack for for just a few cents/round.





We again had a great time, again picked up all our brass so the cattle wouldn't ingest them, some was kept for reloading and some is just throwaway brass. No pics of me shooting tho I tried everything available, including one I have wanted to get for a long time, a Mosin Nagant. Loved everything about it except that dang safety.

My wife was looking for something different to try when she was done with the 30cal AR and pulled my .270 Weatherby out of the back seat of the truck.  I told her "There's a lot of difference in a semiautomatic and that bolt action Weatherby--you got a hoss right there--ya sure you big enough to handle him?"
Took her 2 rounds to decide she would go back to the SKS, which she is very good with.

If you look in this pic, you can see the shooting doesn't do much to run off the wildlife. There are 5 in this picture, one partially obscured by the very right top of the backhoe. (you have to look close--took the pick from my back porch. The target area is just out of frame extreme left center of the picture--I took it a few days ago, feeding in my oats,  clover and ryegrass.


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## Robbin

Now that looks like fun!


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## OneFineAcre

We do a lot of shooting too. I've got a Ruger 10/22 that I'm teaching my 10 year old daughter to shoot with.  I've got a couple of 30 round clips for it and she loves unloading 30 rounds into a gallon milk jug full of water. Shoot, I love to do that too.


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## Baymule

Now that's the way to celebrate Christmas and family get togethers!


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## OneFineAcre

Baymule said:


> Now that's the way to celebrate Christmas and family get togethers!


I can't think of a better way to say "Happy Birthday " Jesus than cold blue steel and the smell of gunpowder


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## OneFineAcre

greybeard said:


> This last Saturday, I had some friends coming down from Dallas to pick up a car I had lost interest in and they, knowing I had lots of room, asked if they could do some shooting while they were here. Again, I was surprised how much gear they brought down.
> 
> First, just because, I'll show the group, in front of the car in question-I'm the older gentleman with the grey beard--hence my username.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First up, and before everybody else had a chance to don their ear protection was one of my friends trying out my SKS.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had set some targets out a little closer for the pistoleros so we didn't have to walk down to the main targets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This AR Blackout was a new experience for me, and wife now wants one. That's my wonderful partner in the grey jacket. The bucket is for expended brass--it got about 1/4 full before the day was out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife trying out the AR while others spotted. Can you guess what she's shooting at?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (One of the guys is spotting for her with my Weatherby .270)
> 
> 
> She's setting off Tannerite--it has to be mixed before use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't remember what this one is, but I tried it and liked it as well tho it is lighter than what I would normally like to use:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The same weapon in action. The canvas bandoleer on the table holds 100 rounds in stripper clips of 7.62/39 ammo for my SKS. I buy it by the battle pack for for just a few cents/round.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We again had a great time, again picked up all our brass so the cattle wouldn't ingest them, some was kept for reloading and some is just throwaway brass. No pics of me shooting tho I tried everything available, including one I have wanted to get for a long time, a Mosin Nagant. Loved everything about it except that dang safety.
> 
> My wife was looking for something different to try when she was done with the 30cal AR and pulled my .270 Weatherby out of the back seat of the truck.  I told her "There's a lot of difference in a semiautomatic and that bolt action Weatherby--you got a hoss right there--ya sure you big enough to handle him?"
> Took her 2 rounds to decide she would go back to the SKS, which she is very good with.
> 
> If you look in this pic, you can see the shooting doesn't do much to run off the wildlife. There are 5 in this picture, one partially obscured by the very right top of the backhoe. (you have to look close--took the pick from my back porch. The target area is just out of frame extreme left center of the picture--I took it a few days ago, feeding in my oats,  clover and ryegrass.


Is that a Pontiac Firebird?
And you got tired of it ?


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## greybeard

Indy pace car Pont Fiero. 2 seater--mid engine. I had 2 identical to this one and have had as many as 5 Fieros at one time, but it was time to let them all go. Too old to work on them or get in and out of them.



> I can't think of a better way to say "Happy Birthday " Jesus than cold blue steel and the smell of gunpowder


Well, we 'did" do the traditional Christmas thing that day too.


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## OneFineAcre

greybeard said:


> Indy pace car Pont Fiero. 2 seater--mid engine. I had 2 identical to this one and have had as many as 5 Fieros at one time, but it was time to let them all go. Too old to work on them or get in and out of them.
> 
> 
> Well, we 'did" do the traditional Christmas thing that day too.


Merry Christmas to you and your family a few months late


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## CntryBoy777

@greybeard have you ever shot a Henry rifle? If so, what did ya think about it? Have thought about getting one, either .357 or 30-30, but don't want to spend that much on a mantle piece....thanks!


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## micah wotring

OneFineAcre said:


> Is that a Pontiac Firebird?
> And you got tired of it ?


lol that's what I'm thinking.
(I understand though @greybeard )


Those old black powder pistols are cool! Only ever shot one once but it was fun.


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## greybeard

Shot a few rounds from a  Henry 45-70 not long ago. Steel receiver and round barrel. The action is every bit as smooth as they claim. I can't justify paying that much, but it was a very accurate and well balanced rifle.


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## soarwitheagles

Greybeard,

Did you shoot again this Christmas time?  My wife and I enjoy driving to Frontsight for firearms training during our breaks.  It is located out in the Nevada desert.  Have you ever been there?

We try to get there for a few classes every year.  I like it because they have great instructors and we usually take several of the four day classes: handgun, tactical shotgun, long rifle, etc.  They have really improved our game.

I have shot the .44 40 Henry.  It was a blast and I can still remember pulling the trigger and then waiting to hear the lead hit the target...the lead from that rifle sure moved slow!


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## greybeard

No, Christmas gathering alternates around to different family members each year and this year was at my niece's place in a town about an hour away. Inside city limits on a smallish lot--we only shoot when it is slated to be at my place.

I have not been to the Nevada gathering, it's a bit far for me to travel but looks like a blast. It would be about  700 miles west just to get out of Texas.


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## CntryBoy777

That is a looong stretch of road there...made that trip a few times, thought I'd never see the state line the first time I drove it. I ran out of hrs and took 2 days to cross.


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## soarwitheagles

greybeard said:


> No, Christmas gathering alternates around to different family members each year and this year was at my niece's place in a town about an hour away. Inside city limits on a smallish lot--we only shoot when it is slated to be at my place.
> 
> I have not been to the Nevada gathering, it's a bit far for me to travel but looks like a blast. It would be about  700 miles west just to get out of Texas.



Wow, I did not realize it was that far until I just glanced at a map.  Plus you would need to travel through New Mexico and Arizona too! 

I can see how that would be a long, long drive Greybeard!

Yes, I like Frontsight for the training they offer.  I think they offer over 50 different classes now.  Some of their advanced training is quite challenging.

I do not care much for their advertisement and I simply ignore it because a friend gave us life time memberships there.  So for free, I have no complaints at all.

Glad to hear you had a wonderful Christmas there.

I was born in Austin TX but lived in California most of my life.  Contemplated moving back to Texas due to the high levels of political insanity in California, [the liberal politicians themselves struggle with severe personal mental health issues in this state], but my parents are getting really old and I want to be here for them.  So for now, it is California for me.


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## greybeard

Spend as much time as you can with your parents for sure. As far as I can foresee, Texas ain't going anywhere.

Always glad to see there are trained and interested firearm owners..even in Calif.

A new gunshop and range opened a few miles from my house and I visited it last month. Considered a range membership but minimum 1 yr membership is $500. Ouch!! I was afraid to ask if they had a 'per hour' rate.
I can shoot clean line of sight up to 500 yards at home.
I need to build something similar to this tho--tired of policing brass out of the pasture.


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## CntryBoy777

It would save the Back from being bent over picking them up too...maybe a few but not all.


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## soarwitheagles

Greybeard,

Do you already have your shooting bench?  If not, many DIY designs online for the shooting benches.

https://www.google.com/search?q=diy...6IMKHUTICDwQ_AUICSgC&biw=1600&bih=770#imgrc=_

Not sure if mosquito netting would be strong enough to catch your brass but I am sure you will be able to find some material that will work well for you.

Such a nice freedom to be able to shoot at your own location.

We still have the laws and freedoms that permit us to shoot legally at our ranch here.  I make a habit of practicing a minimum of every two weeks to stay sharp for CCW requirements.  But many people move out here for the peace and quiet, so most of my shooting now is with the PCP air guns.  At rest, we are consistently obtaining single jagged holes up to 100 yards and the loudest noise is when the lead hits the target.  Suppressors are legal on air rifles in California at this time.  Now various companies are manufacturing PCP air rifle and guns up to 70 cal. which is amazing.  My favorite for low noise and low lead costs is the .25 Benjamin Marauder.  It is an amazing air rifle and is also the primary instrument I use to harvest wild turkeys.  To be honest with you, at 70 yards, at rest, with a decent scope, it is impossible to miss.

Our "pistol gun range" is currently under water since last week, and it is showing no signs of draining on its own...now it is a pond, over 100 ft. long, 50 ft. wide is some areas.  At the berm, it is 4'-6' ft. deep.

Not sure what to do as this is the first time since we moved in 3.5 years ago that we have experienced so much rain...best of all, starting next Wednesday, we are scheduled to receive another "atmospheric river" storm that is suppose to last for three days...ouch!


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## greybeard

I have that same Primos rest, except the cushion on mine has been repaired with duct tape.
Don't ask how, but while sighting in an SKS for wife to shoot up some tannerite,  I put two rounds thru the top of the original covering. 
My favorite weapon is my Weatherby .270, but the older  get, the heavier it seems to get.


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## soarwitheagles

greybeard said:


> I have that same Primos rest, except the cushion on mine has been repaired with duct tape.
> Don't ask how, but while sighting in an SKS for wife to shoot up some tannerite,  I put two rounds thru the top of the original covering.
> My favorite weapon is my Weatherby .270, but the older  get, the heavier it seems to get.



Many people consider the Weatherby .270 to be the best all around deer rifle on the planet.  What a beautiful rifle to own and shoot!

How do you like the Primos rest?  I fell in love with mine and often use it on a daily basis with the Marauder.  At times I feel as if I am cheating when I use it!  My favorite activity is to invite people who have never shot before or who haven't shot in a long, long time to use the .25 Marauder resting on the Primos.  This set up can make even the youngest rookie feel like an absolute pro!  It is a wonderful way to introduce newbies to the joy of shooting.

So sorry about the two holes in your cushion.  The good news is no one was injured and your green Primos cushion received a purple heart!


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## greybeard

I like it but only use a rest when sighting in a new scope or re-sighting if something gets bumped. All the rest of the time I'm a sling shooter.


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## AClark

shooting is great family time. My kids have a Marlin 39A youth .22 LR that was my first gun, and a Ruger 10-22.
They still flinch at anything bigger so they don't get to shoot much else. I tried to let them try my AR15 but it's loud and makes them flinch.
Hubby has a .50 cal black powder rifle, and weh ave a 30-30 each. A 12 gauge for home protection (Mossberg 88) and then our carry pistols.
I used to carry my Colt 1911, but we recently bought 2 Glock 30SF's to beat up on carrying, since my 1911 is pristine and made in 1936.


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## animalmom

@soarwitheagles, your comment about keeping the noise down while shooting on your homestead made me chuckle.  The last time we saw our nearest neighbor, a dairyman, he asked my DH if he had been sick as he was concerned about NOT hearing him practice.  God bless Texas.

On a not related note, we took an alternate way into town yesterday and saw another dairyman had 9 coyotes displayed on his fence.  Now that fellow's been busy!


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## soarwitheagles

greybeard said:


> I like it but only use a rest when sighting in a new scope or re-sighting if something gets bumped. All the rest of the time I'm a sling shooter.



Greybeard, you must have a lot of talent being a sling shooter and steady as can be!



AClark said:


> shooting is great family time. My kids have a Marlin 39A youth .22 LR that was my first gun, and a Ruger 10-22.
> They still flinch at anything bigger so they don't get to shoot much else. I tried to let them try my AR15 but it's loud and makes them flinch.
> Hubby has a .50 cal black powder rifle, and weh ave a 30-30 each. A 12 gauge for home protection (Mossberg 88) and then our carry pistols.
> I used to carry my Colt 1911, but we recently bought 2 Glock 30SF's to beat up on carrying, since my 1911 is pristine and made in 1936.



Carrying and qualifying remaining proficient with .45's?  Wow, your wrists must be made of steel!  I tried prolonged shooting with my .45 and realized it is for superman only!



animalmom said:


> @soarwitheagles, your comment about keeping the noise down while shooting on your homestead made me chuckle.  The last time we saw our nearest neighbor, a dairyman, he asked my DH if he had been sick as he was concerned about NOT hearing him practice.  God bless Texas.
> 
> On a not related note, we took an alternate way into town yesterday and saw another dairyman had 9 coyotes displayed on his fence.  Now that fellow's been busy!



Wow, each time I read about Texas, a part of me wants to move there immediately!  Hopefully Trump will apply pressure on all these liberal politicians in California and make some progress here in a way that helps us all to return to at least an inkling of sanity!

Funny you should mention the coyote carcasses on the fence!  That was my exact thought earlier today.  If I could only nail a coyote I would like to mount it on our fence for all to see!  We have also had a problem with a mountain lion taking both sheep and cattle in our neighborhood.

Steel traps are highly illegal so I cannot use them.  Haven't the time to set up bait and hide and shoot for the coyote so my chances of shooting a coyote are quite slim.

Today was the first time in weeks that I let our sheep and lambs in the back forest.  I hung out with them for a few minutes, then had to come back in...I so much wish we could legally set the steel traps...


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## babsbag

@soarwitheagles  Did you ever get anymore information from your neighbor regarding the dog attack? You really need an LGD. And if there is a mountain Lion you REALLY need an LGD.


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## greybeard

soarwitheagles said:


> Greybeard, you must have a lot of talent being a sling shooter and steady as can be!


I learned with the best.
<<<< See avatar.

My brother was down here yesterday for just a couple hours. I shot about 4 mags thru his Ruger American .45 cal.
Nice piece, but not as nice as a Colt, and he, I and his son in law all found it consistently shoots 2" low and 3" to the left at 60'. Low/left is often a result of poor trigger pull but not with it happening to all three of us. He's going to have to have some sight work done on it when he gets back home. Recoil is noticeable but certainly manageable.  

He had another little toy with him, that I had some doubts about..........If you've never used a maglula magazine loader, you are in for a treat. 
Here's Hickock45 showing what it is, and I agree with his review.


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## soarwitheagles

Greybeard,

Go Marines!!!

That was one of the funnier of Hitchcock's videos, and I have enjoyed many, many of his Youtube videos.  The guy is amazing and I really like his up front honesty and what I feel are unbiased reviews.  Sometimes I wonder if he has shot a greater variety of weapons than anyone else in the world!

My wife and I started to use the Maglula speed loaders after taking a number of 4 day classes each of which lasted 8 hours a day.  So that was nearly 32 hours on the range, a lot of it shooting, with some good training too.  We have done three classes in a row and it can add up to nearly 100 hours.  My concern is I would not have any thumbs left...only nubs.

To be 100% honest with you, our thumbs were incredibly sore when we did NOT use the Maglula speed loader.  After some years of being "spoiled," we use the Maglula speed loader for every class and I still use it in our backyard range.

Some people looked down at us for using the Maglula speed loader...many of them old schooler's, but it did not matter, my thumbs were good to go!

One of the main arguments against it was, "Well, you can't use it in a real life altercation."
My response was, "Well, if I cannot stop 3 or 4 perps using two magazines, no amount of reloading will help me!"

My wrists are not very thick, and my wife's wrists are even skinnier than mine.  My wrists would begin to hurt if I shot too many .45 rounds...so I retired my Glock 21 and now exclusively shoot only 9mm in the Glock 17, 19, and tactical 34.  Don't mean to be a wimp, but that is what works for me!  I could not handle 8 hour training classes for 4 days in a row with the .45 [whimper, whimper tail between the legs].

I would say costs of the ammo also had an influence on our decision to move exclusively to 9mm.  Thousands upon thousands of rounds can begin to add up real fast.  9mm is now my favorite.

How about you?  Do you have a favorite?


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## Latestarter

soarwitheagles said:


> One of the main arguments against it was, "Well, you can't use it in a real life altercation."
> My response was, "Well, if I cannot stop 3 or 4 perps using two magazines, no amount of reloading will help me!"



Why wouldn't you? You could if you had it with you. Not to mention the fact that given the need to reload, you'd be able to get it done so much faster using the Maglula than doing it the old fashioned way... How many folks are carrying boxes of ammo to reload with in any altercation anyway? Better to carry 4+ mags.


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## soarwitheagles

babsbag said:


> @soarwitheagles  Did you ever get anymore information from your neighbor regarding the dog attack? You really need an LGD. And if there is a mountain Lion you REALLY need an LGD.



Babs,

I have not seen this neighbor is quite some time.  Next time I do see him, I will ask for more details.

BTW, it is a confirmed mountain lion.  Neighbor next to us lost a calf, others nearby have lost sheep.  DFGW gave warnings to all school age students and their families that it is not a good idea to walk our road to the bus stop.  Also my good friend and neighbor found tracks and brought in a professional tracker and he told us from the size of the tracks, the mountain lion is 13 months old.  It is the real deal.  Another neighbor just lost his first lamb of the year to coyotes last week.

Yes, we are still looking for a good deal on a LGD.  While we are waiting, I often walk the property line looking for animal tracks and activity but find none.  This is the best I can do for right now...Our extensive repair to the outer perimeter fence has shut down all or nearly all animals from coming on our property for now.

3-4 weeks ago had some wild dogs injure two of our ewes while in the back forest.  I was not fast enough with the gun...they were out of sight before I could retrieve and aim the gun.  The wild dogs were coming in at a breach in the fence.  As soon as we fixed the breach, most if not all animal activity has ceased.

I also checked the old coyote dens on our property, everyone of them is completely filled to the top with flood water...


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## Bruce

How fast can those "no speed loaders" load their magazines in a "real life altercation"?

I'm willing to bet that you are more accurate (and less wimpy) with a gun that doesn't cause you pain. 



soarwitheagles said:


> Greybeard,
> 
> Go Marines!!!
> 
> That was one of the funnier of Hitchcock's videos, and I have enjoyed many, many of his Youtube videos.  The guy is amazing and I really like his up front honesty and what I feel are unbiased reviews.  Sometimes I wonder if he has shot a greater variety of weapons than anyone else in the world!
> 
> My wife and I started to use the Maglula speed loaders after taking a number of 4 day classes each of which lasted 8 hours a day.  So that was nearly 32 hours on the range, a lot of it shooting, with some good training too.  We have done three classes in a row and it can add up to nearly 100 hours.  My concern is I would not have any thumbs left...only nubs.
> 
> To be 100% honest with you, our thumbs were incredibly sore when we did NOT use the Maglula speed loader.  After some years of being "spoiled," we use the Maglula speed loader for every class and I still use it in our backyard range.
> 
> Some people looked down at us for using the Maglula speed loader...many of them old schooler's, but it did not matter, my thumbs were good to go!
> 
> One of the main arguments against it was, "Well, you can't use it in a real life altercation."
> My response was, "Well, if I cannot stop 3 or 4 perps using two magazines, no amount of reloading will help me!"
> 
> My wrists are not very thick, and my wife's wrists are even skinnier than mine.  My wrists would begin to hurt if I shot too many .45 rounds...so I retired my Glock 21 and now exclusively shoot only 9mm in the Glock 17, 19, and tactical 34.  Don't mean to be a wimp, but that is what works for me!  I could not handle 8 hour training classes for 4 days in a row with the .45 [whimper, whimper tail between the legs].
> 
> I would say costs of the ammo also had an influence on our decision to move exclusively to 9mm.  Thousands upon thousands of rounds can begin to add up real fast.  9mm is now my favorite.


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## Bruce

soarwitheagles said:


> Babs,
> 
> I have not seen this neighbor is quite some time.  Next time I do see him, I will ask for more details.
> 
> BTW, it is a confirmed mountain lion.  Neighbor next to us lost a calf, others nearby have lost sheep.  DFGW gave warnings to all school age students and their families that it is not a good idea to walk our road to the bus stop.  Also my good friend and neighbor found tracks and brought in a professional tracker and he told us from the size of the tracks, the mountain lion is 13 months old.  It is the real deal.  Another neighbor just lost his first lamb of the year to coyotes last week.
> 
> Yes, we are still looking for a good deal on a LGD.  While we are waiting, I often walk the property line looking for animal tracks and activity but find none.  This is the best I can do for right now...Our extensive repair to the outer perimeter fence has shut down all or nearly all animals from coming on our property for now.
> 
> 3-4 weeks ago had some wild dogs injure two of our ewes while in the back forest.  I was not fast enough with the gun...they were out of sight before I could retrieve and aim the gun.  The wild dogs were coming in at a breach in the fence.  As soon as we fixed the breach, most if not all animal activity has ceased.
> 
> I also checked the old coyote dens on our property, everyone of them is completely filled to the top with flood water...



If you have mountain lions you don't need A LGD, you need a PACK of LGDs!


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## soarwitheagles

Latestarter,

Good points, but I am not comfortable carrying the speed loader everywhere I go.  I am not a police officer, but I am a CCW holder.  I am not comfortable carrying/concealing more than one weapon with 2-3 mags unless I feel I am going into a situation that has a much greater potential for adversity.

Bruce, I think using the speed loader in a real life situation would not be as fast loading unless you are loading 5-10 magazines, and that would be a real anomaly in most real life situations.

Yes, for me, I am much more accurate with a 9mm in moving timed competition [IDPA types of competition], as well as at Frontsight's tests and other qualifying events.  I got first place in our last event and most of the people were shooting .40's and .45's and at times I compete with police, sheriff, and FBI personnel.  To be honest with you, I think I was more surprised than anyone else there!

I do not share this out of a sense of pride or arrogance.  I realize now if you train for 8 hours a day, for day after day after day, your shooting skills become honed far beyond the "let's go to the range every other month" type of shooting.  Having trainers that have their act together [highly professional] and know how to teach is a huge plus too.  Repeated training develops neuro pathways in the brain and I have discovered after a while, you respond without even consciously thinking about what you are doing.  This has both positive and some negative ramifications.

Example: the gentleman that helped me a lot is a world class shooter and he often trains police, military, and special forces. Our first time on the range together, I watched him put ten 9 mm rounds through one 9 mm hole at 15 yards with a Glock 19.  I have seen him do it a number of times.  Before meeting him, I thought that level of accuracy was not possible and only seen in movies...like Jack Reacher BS!


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## Bruce

I couldn't agree more. Lots of practice on your part make you better than a 'generic' police officer because you have more practice than they do, at least once they graduate the academy. There is primarily one reason top biathletes can ski-stop-shoot repeatedly and rarely miss. Practice practice and more practice.

If he put 10 rounds through the same hole, how do you know he wasn't shooting blanks after the first?    JK of course.


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## greybeard

Ican use one, and find them enjoyableI'm not really a big fan of hand guns. I don't carry.


soarwitheagles said:


> I would say costs of the ammo also had an influence on our decision to move exclusively to 9mm. Thousands upon thousands of rounds can begin to add up real fast. 9mm is now my favorite.
> 
> How about you? Do you have a favorite?



Not really. I can use one but never had much use for a sidearm.


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## NH homesteader

I carry a .40, my husband carries a .45 but if we were doing all day events like that we would probably switch it up! Mine is great for self defense but hurts to shoot after a while and is rather expensive.


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## CntryBoy777

I've always preferred a rifle over a pistol, and with the lack of availability of .22 LR here, I'm thinking of getting a 30-30 there's no very many shots taken here over 100yds, so it will do for my purposes.


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## Bruce

If you can't get it locally (or by hanging out at the Winchester plant in MI  ) can't you just order it online?


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## greybeard

.22lr is beginning to be pretty plentiful around here. I bought 6 boxes of 40gr Winchester SuperX @ 100 round boxes a couple weeks ago at Academy. 
I like CCI hp most of the time, but I didn't see it except in the 50 round boxes.


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## Latestarter

There are a number of reasons for the .22 shortage, some dealing with plant buy-outs, some dealing with actual & potential legislation (that didn't happen) causing some hoarding issues. The stock is starting to increase again and it's getting easier to find ammo now, but it's almost doubled in price...I bought ~4000 rounds before Xmas as presents and for my own use. The son and grandson had a blast while they were here  Of course I killed a few boxes as well.


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## Bruce

Get them some TNT and the will REALLY have a blast!


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## Latestarter

Well, can't get TNT, but can get tannerite... next best thing.


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## NH homesteader

Good stuff, tannerite.


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## CntryBoy777

The price is why I like the .22 so much, and shoot so often. But, I need a little bit bigger multi purpose with a bigger punch. The biggest predator around here would be coyote or bobcat, mainly coons and possums. I have a pistol, but I prefer a rifle...that's why I was thinking about the 30-30. Anybody have any Pros and Cons about it? Never shot one, so not familiar with it.


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## soarwitheagles

Bruce said:


> I couldn't agree more. Lots of practice on your part make you better than a 'generic' police officer because you have more practice than they do, at least once they graduate the academy. There is primarily one reason top biathletes can ski-stop-shoot repeatedly and rarely miss. Practice practice and more practice.
> 
> If he put 10 rounds through the same hole, how do you know he wasn't shooting blanks after the first?    JK of course.



Bruce, I was thinking the same exact thing the first time I saw him shoot.  Know what I did?  I re-positioned myself so I could see if the rounds were hitting the berm behind the target...yes, every round was kicking up dust.  I also positioned myself directly behind him a couple of times to make sure he was truly aiming at the target.  He was.  To be honest with you, the first few times I saw him shoot I was shocked.  I never realized that type of consistent accuracy was even possible.


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## soarwitheagles

My favorite .22's are the Ruger 10/22, the Ruger SR22, and the Smith and Western 22A.  We were fortunate because we purchased over 20,000 rounds when it was still 1-2 cents per round.  Really do not shoot a lot of .22 so we still have quite a few.  Sure wish the prices would come back down!


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## greybeard

NH homesteader said:


> Good stuff, tannerite.


Especially since they have the rimfire version (a .22 will detonate it--so will 20 ga #1 buckshot)


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## Latestarter

I have a Marlin 30.30 and it's a great "brush gun". It's shorter than a normal rifle, a lever action carbine, so it's easier to get it up fast in heavy brush. It's similar to the famous Winchester model 94. When I bought it, it was heavier than the Win and I felt, more solidly built. It packs a pretty good wallop out to 100 yards as you said, but after that the bullet trajectory drops off like a brick. I shoot over open sights with it and it's not a tight shooting rifle (for me) I get maybe 4" groups out to 70-80 yards. I also shoot a .243 that's a very accurate & flat shooter and can reach out farther. While the 30.30 is a 150-180 grain bullet typically, the .243 is 80-100 grain. a lot less recoil than the 30.30 as well. Either will easily take down a coyote. The ammo costs about the same with the .243 maybe being slightly higher.  http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...in-sp-core-lokt-170-grain-20-rounds?a=1593686  @$15.67/box  or  http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...3-winchester-100-grain-sp-20-rounds?a=1800263  @$18.99/box. There is slightly cheaper off brand name ammo available for both. 

If you compare the ballistics, they have about the same energy at muzzle and out to 100 yards, but after that the .243 has a much higher energy due to its faster velocity even though a smaller bullet. http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/ballistic-chart/remington_charts/3030wbal.htm http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/ballistic-chart/remington_charts/243winbal.htm
http://guide.sportsmansguide.com/ballistic-chart/remington_charts/243winbal.htm
The lowest price I can find available for .22 ammo right now is ~9 cents a round. Sportsman's guide advertises bulk .22 at ~4-5 cents a round, but it's never in stock. I've submitted to be notified when it is in stock but after 30-45 days I get an Email that says it's been discontinued (but for some reason it's still being advertised).


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## Bruce

I don't guess a guy could use tannerite to blow up a rock or ledge in a hole.


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## greybeard

I've used it to uproot stumps--no rock here.


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## Bruce

But you could put the tannerite in a visible area and blast from safe distance right? The only ignition I saw in my brief trip through YouTube was a rifle shot. Kinda hard to shoot down into a hole from a long way off


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## AClark

Latestarter said:


> Why wouldn't you? You could if you had it with you. Not to mention the fact that given the need to reload, you'd be able to get it done so much faster using the Maglula than doing it the old fashioned way... How many folks are carrying boxes of ammo to reload with in any altercation anyway? Better to carry 4+ mags.



That's why we got the Glocks, they come standard with 2 10 round mags - you can get 13 round mags for them too. If you can't hit something with 20 shots, you have  a bigger problem. They came with a magazine loading assist, but I hate it with a passion. 

Soar - I can still shoot proficiently with a .45, but I have some muscle wasting in my wrist that sometimes causes me to "limp wrist" it and the ejecting shell will stovepipe. I notice that it is a bigger issue with the heavy 1911 vs the Glock. It's also a bigger issue the more I shoot. I tend to load lighter loads for target shooting than the standard Federal I carry, and that eases it up to make it where I can shoot longer. For target shooting, I'll load generally around a 180 gr bullet with 5 - 5.2 gr of HP38 (I think, don't quote me there, I'd have to find my binder for my target loads) - it makes it just about as light as the 9mm. They also will let you qualify with a wrist brace, which stops the limp wristing issue that I have - it's not an improper grip, just that I don't have a strong grip anymore due to a lot of nerve damage.

Where I ran into issues with a 9mm Glock (I looked at those first actually) was the size of them. It would have been preferable actually, but my hand did not fit the grip and my pinky hung off the magazine - I wanted a compact/sub compact for carrying as I'm small and any full size pistol is difficult for me to conceal. It felt like I didn't have a good control on it like that. I'm not a big glock fan at all, but for the money, they are a nice "I don't care if I beat it up" shooter. 

Actually, for around the house, I'm a huge fan of the Mossberg Maverick 12 ga. It might rock my shoulder, but I don't need to be anywhere near as precise.


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## greybeard

I have a 12 ga Mossy and a 20ga New Haven--a 'made by Mossburg' 500 clone for my wife, with Hogue Tamer pistolgrip and fore end on the 20 ga. #9 in the chamber and four #1buckshots  in the mag. She can handle it pretty good. I need to shorten the barrel on the 20 ga but haven't yet. I put the Hogue stuff on it because her arms weren't long enough to reach the slide with a regular stock on it.

Tannerite. Really, it is not economical or even powerful enough to use for anything demolition, and when we talk about using it for that, it lends to ATF towards re-categorizing it into a restricted/controlled explosive instead of a binary target. (I'm guilty of that too)


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## CLSranch

I just caught up on this forum. New to the site. I had some thoughts, answers to some, and responses. Henry Rifles although I don't own 1 yet I've shot them they are very smooth, accurate and well built. The short distance 30-30. I use it as my brush gun, keep when out on the horse and love it. It's a marlin which I like because it's a good gun and very affordable. If my horse is tied up and roles over with it on her (has happened) I'm not out $$$ (it just broke the rear sight). Also would a 12ga work if half of what your after is a coon or of that size. A good load will get a coyote or coon. Also out in Cali. If you can't use a foot trap can you use an electronic predator call. Sorry I don't remember the names to which I'm responding.


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## Latestarter

Hey there @CLSranch greetings and welcome to BYH! Glad you decided to join in  Hope you'll stick around for a while. Make yourself at home and browse the forum. hope you'll find something of interest.


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## CntryBoy777

@CLSranch Hi there from NW Mississippi! 
Thanks for the info on the Henry and 30-30.
As far as the shotgun goes, I have a 20gauge and have killed coons and possums with it, but I prefer a rifle and looking to replace a 30-06 that I had at one time, with something that has less of a bite....and a bit more knockdown that a .22, but is economical to shoot with availabilty of ammo.
Ya oughta make a post in the New Member Forum so everyone can Welcome ya there.


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## greybeard

CntryBoy777 said:


> As far as the shotgun goes, I have a 20gauge and have killed coons and possums with it, but I prefer a rifle




So do I!!!

[I]The young Marine was weary
and he sought a little rest
With his helmet for a pillow
And his rifle on his chest.
He has seen the gunships fire.
He had heard the cannons roar.
He had seen the Navy's power
as he made his way ashore.
Then he thought about his rifle
And he found it rather small,
With the gunships and the cannons
It was nothing much at all.
The efforts of a rifleman
Meant little, it would seem.
Then, as he slipped to slumber,
He dreamed himself a dream.

The man who stood beside him
Held a musket in his hand
And close around his neck he wore
A heavy leather band.
"When I was on Old Ironsides"
The apparition said
"There were cannonballs and cutlasses
Wherever danger led.
There were pistols too, and daggers
At every fighter's side
When the ships would come together
On the rolling, heaving, tide.
But when it came to boarding,
With the battle fury hot
It was Rifles, always Rifles
That made the telling shot."

The apparition faded
And standing in its place
Beneath a shallow helmet
He saw another face.
"When we were in the trenches
In the wood they called Marine
There were mortars, tanks and cannons,
More than I had ever seen.
But when the final charge was made
To push the Germans back
It was Rifles, always Rifles
At the point of the attack."

The face changed only slightly
And the helmet stayed the same
But the island that he spoke of
Had a more familiar name.
"They hit us very early
On the day the war begun.
On the wings of all their bombers
We could see the Rising Sun.
Our pilots and our gunners
Who fought and fell at Wake
Wrote a story full of glory
That time can never shake.
But when the enemy drew near
To make his final reach
It was Rifles, always Rifles
That met him on the beach."

There next appeared a shadow
In a swirl of stinging snow
And it breathed a fierce defiance
And its eyes were all aglow.
"In Fifty at the Chosin
When the big guns couldn't talk
And the First Marine Division
Took a fighting, freezing walk,
When all the world, except the Corps
Had counted us as gone
It was Rifles, always Rifles
That let us carry on."

The scene was changed to summer
And the face was hard and lean
And the tired eyes were fired
With the light that says "Marine".
"At Khe Sahn when they shelled us
We were wrapped in rolling smoke
And the thought of our survival
Was a grim and ghastly joke.
But when the waves came swarming in
To finish the assault
It was Rifles, always Rifles
That called the final halt."

There next appeared a General
As solid as a tank
With three stars on his collar
to signify his rank.
His stature and demeanor
Were the military type
And in his hand he carried
A stubby little pipe.
His jaw was squarely chisled,
His eyes were clear and keen
And his bearing left no question.
He was all Marine's Marine.

"The message they're conveying"
The burly General said
"Is that through our troubled history
The rifles always led.
We've had cannons, tank and mortars.
We've had weapons by the score,
We've had Battleships and fighter planes
To complement The Corps.
We've a most impressive arsenal.
That's obviously true,
But the final thrust for victory
Has always been with you.
It was Rifles, always Rifles
When The Corps was sorely pressed
And the rifle that you carry
Must meet the final test.
So sling that rifle proudly,
For everything we do
With mortars, tanks and cannons
Is just an aid to you."

The young Marine awakened
And put the dream aside,
Though now he clutched his rifle
With a certain touch of pride.
And then he chanced to notice
That lying near his hand
Was a stubby little pipe
And a heavy leather band.


author unknown[/I]
[I][/I]

still true today.


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## CntryBoy777

Thanks @greybeard , I appreciate that...
I have always liked rifles....guess it comes from watching those old shows like "Combat, Rat Patrol", and such, along with those old Audie Murphy movies. Dad being in the Navy, we were around Marines too. The closest I could get to Service is 2yrs of ROTC in high school, I was on the Drill team and twirled a M14. That only having one kidney thing, kept me from Serving. So, I really do appreciate that.


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## AClark

CntryBoy777 said:


> The price is why I like the .22 so much, and shoot so often. But, I need a little bit bigger multi purpose with a bigger punch. The biggest predator around here would be coyote or bobcat, mainly coons and possums. I have a pistol, but I prefer a rifle...that's why I was thinking about the 30-30. Anybody have any Pros and Cons about it? Never shot one, so not familiar with it.



On the 30-30 thing, it depends on what kind of 30-30 you get. DH has a Marlin lever action, I have a Remington 788 bolt action. 
They shoot pretty much the same, mine has a longer barrel. Both are nice accurate hunting rifles. If I miss with either of them, it's because I missed. The Remington is very accurate to about 300 yards and then the drop gets to be too much. I can't think of much I've shot at that far away, except targets for fun. 
The biggest difference is what you intend to shoot through it. Because the lever action is an inline load, you cannot put pointed tip ammo in it (like the 150 grain FMJ rounds), because it can hit the primer and cause it to go off, when you don't want it to. Bad juju there. Mine being a bolt action, I can run the FMJ 150 gr or the typical 170 gr soft tips. My magazine only holds 3 though, and I believe you can put 7 in the lever action, but don't quote me there. 

You know what is great for coyotes, bobcats etc? A .17 HMR - plenty of punch for little predators. 30-30 is a bit overkill (nothing wrong with overkill IMHO) and is well suited for deer etc.


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## greybeard

AClark said:


> You know what is great for coyotes, bobcats etc? A .17 HMR - plenty of punch for little predators



Good for zombies too...double tap.


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## CLSranch

Cntry


CntryBoy777 said:


> @CLSranch Hi there from NW Mississippi!
> Thanks for the info on the Henry and 30-30.
> As far as the shotgun goes, I have a 20gauge and have killed coons and possums with it, but I prefer a rifle and looking to replace a 30-06 that I had at one time, with something that has less of a bite....and a bit more knockdown that a .22, but is economical to shoot with availabilty of ammo.
> Ya oughta make a post in the New Member Forum so everyone can Welcome ya there.


One thing I like on .22's and any brush type gun is raised scope mounts. My 30-30 doesn't fit in the scabbard with a scope but loved it with others. I can throw it up at a moving or close target immediately. And it a coyote or anything is farther and not moving I use the scope. You sometimes can't find a moving object in a scope. And I do like the .17 AClark mentioned. Thought of getting one here.


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## greybeard

My brother just called. He bought his wife a new rifle to replace her Weatherby .243.
Told her "now you can play with the big boys". It's a little bit of a step up for her.
Weatherby MKV in .340.
At least it has the good muzzle brake on it....she gonna need it too.


Dunno why he didn't go ahead and just get her a .375 Weatherby.
"Cuz I couldn't find a left hand version easy enough.."


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## Bruce

So is that thing going to kick her onto her can and make her go deaf at the same time?


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## Latestarter

A little bit of a step up?! Hope she's a solidly built woman.


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## Novasark

Love it! We have a shooting range we put in our woods. it's only 150 yd target but it's downhill and there is trees and down hill is Creek. there is nobody else around for miles. We would shoot the corn right off the stalk like where you tear it off, one handed with a Charles Daley 12 gauge. I've shot on my horse too, would love to get into mounted shooting! How are your critters with the noise?


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## greybeard

Shooting doesn't bother the cattle at all. Dogs are a little skittish tho.


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## CLSranch

Novasark said:


> Love it! We have a shooting range we put in our woods. it's only 150 yd target but it's downhill and there is trees and down hill is Creek. there is nobody else around for miles. We would shoot the corn right off the stalk like where you tear it off, one handed with a Charles Daley 12 gauge. I've shot on my horse too, would love to get into mounted shooting! How are your critters with the noise?


   I

I've done the mounted shooting a couple of times. I would like to do it more. I used to deer hunt of my horses.
I got a recurve just for bow hunting horse back but haven't practiced yet.


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## Pastor Dave

Latestarter said:


> Why wouldn't you? You could if you had it with you. Not to mention the fact that given the need to reload, you'd be able to get it done so much faster using the Maglula than doing it the old fashioned way... How many folks are carrying boxes of ammo to reload with in any altercation anyway? Better to carry 4+ mags.


My straps for my shoulder harness holster has snap pouches, one on each side for a speed loader. So, 18 rounds total. Just think, before semi-autos became standard for law enforcement, a revolver with speed loader pouches were on every gun belt.
Sure you could use them in a real life altercation. Did I ever mention before being interested in ministry I earned an A.S. of Conservation Law Enforcement and was a reserve deputy marshal? Ah, so many chapters ago.


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## Novasark

CLSranch said:


> I
> 
> I've done the mounted shooting a couple of times. I would like to do it more. I used to deer hunt of my horses.
> I got a recurve just for bow hunting horse back but haven't practiced yet.



My mare is so calm with guns I shot a 10 ga off her, I almost blew my ass off but she didn't flinch. as long as she's got grass under her that fat ass ain't going no where. I have tried talking my hubby into going out on horses ain't nd hunt instead of just his deer stand. we have game trails and walking/riding trails all in the woods. There is a 24 pt running around, he is old and wise. I'm hoping to draw him to me with my horses since they so approach them in the fields.


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## CLSranch

I've jumped countless deer that I walked right up to horseback. That I wouldn't have seen otherwise.


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## greybeard

CLSranch said:


> I
> 
> I've done the mounted shooting a couple of times. I would like to do it more. I used to deer hunt of my horses.
> I got a recurve just for bow hunting horse back but haven't practiced yet.


I'll tell this related story, set decades ago..

When I was young, 14, (1964) this county was still open range. When you crossed from Liberty County into San Jacinto county, there was a big cattleguard on the blacktop, and running off the ends of what was one of the few fences in the county outside of around people's yards. That fence ran out around the National Forest on the south end to keep cattle from straying off open range country. This was mostly all raw country then, forest, but probably not the kind of forest you have in your mind's eye.
A little history...
This area in the mid to late 1800s, from La westward across East Texas was old growth long leaf pine forest. Texas, when it entered the union and even after the Civil War was dollar poor but land rich and the big timber companies bought up hundreds of thousands of acres for just a few dollars/acre from the State. The forests then, were large 90' tall pines, with a pine needle floor. Trees were spaced apart, with little else growing except in the river bottoms, where dense hardwood thickets had sprung up. When the timber companies cut all the old growth off, sunlight hit the forest floor, wind was able to get to it, and seeds of every kind came in and began to grow. What was for hundreds of years before, a clean forest, like walking thru a well kept park, turned into a thicket of vines, hardwood saplings, yaupon, and tanglefoot and still is today. It's known now as The Big Thicket.

When my father bought 124 acres here, there were few people living in the county that weren't cattlemen and farmers. The cattle and hogs were not kept at home, but were branded or ear notched and ran loose--all herds mixed together. Among our neighbors that ran cattle free range, was a cowboy of the old style. He was in his 60s when I met him in '64.  He was a ww1 vet, and had served in the US calvary. He helped during spring roundup, done before the brush put on leaves. His name was Peerless Elisor, and was a black man, tall, wiry, friendly and tough as nails. He, like like most people here, ran some pretty rough stock. Horned, mixed breed with lots of Brahma influence. 
Peerless was an avid hunter and did most of his hunting from horseback with an old lever action Winchester. One day, he was ambling down a pipeline right of way, when a big buck walked right out in front of him about 100 yards down the right of way. Peerless dropped his reins, and of course the horse reached down to graze, as Peerless pulled the winchester out of it's scabbard. Just as he sqeezed the trigger, something caught the horse's eye or nose and he raised his head up. Peerless came walking out of the right of way with his rifle, saddle and hackamore, his horse still laying down the r-o-w shot thru the back of the head.


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## frustratedearthmother

Oh my!


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## CLSranch

That stinks. I've heard of them learning to drop there head when the reins are dropped or other signal. I've shot a 12ga over the head of one of my mares bareback because she wouldn't stay sideways.


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## Bruce

frustratedearthmother said:


> Oh my!


X2!!!!!!!

Poor Peerless must have been devastated!


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## greybeard

Oh, he took it in stride I guess. He had a good string of horseflesh. Remember, I said he was an old style cowboy. A very unique individual and my life is richer for having known him when I was just learning. Among his cows was an old leather bag that was a fence breaker. Fence breaker, meaning one that was always in someone's yard since everything else was free range. We fenced our place the first year and she was in with our herefords several times and brother and I would have to run the old cuss out. Peerless finally took a 4x4 and nailed a piece of rawhide on one side and attached it to her neck going up/down so she couldn't get thru a barb wire fence.

Peerless' wife was named Lottie. Wheelchair bound and her fingers were knotted up, but she got by ok. Still cooked on a wood stove and Peerless always had starched shirts and ironed wrangler jeans.  I don't remember ever seeing him without a pair of spurs on. He helped us out often and when thanked, either with cash or words, he had the same reply and I can hear it plain today as when he said it back then........."You're as welcome as the flowers in May Mr. ____." I was overseas when he died, and he had to grown sons that inherited his place, but neither did anything with it. Like a lot of folks around here, they sold off their stock when the county voted in the stock law..they didn't own enough land to feed them on.
Roundups out of that national forest were a contentious time..tryin to figure out whose stock belonged to who, tho everyone branded. Couldn't ever know for sure whose calves belonged to who.


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