# How many goats?  And horns?!



## LMK17 (Jun 15, 2017)

We're buying a 20 acre property.  I'd like a few goats for weed/brush control and to basically have as pets.  The current owners of the farm breed and sell Boers, and they're offering to sell us a few does and doelings.  

So question #1 is:  How many goats should we get initially?  They're offering us 3 does and 4 doelings for $1,250.  ($250/doe and $125/kid.)  Would you say this is a good price?  The adults are 1-2 years old, I believe, and the kids were born around Apr-early May.  Also, is this a good number of animals for our needs?  I don't want to mess with any herd/family dynamics, but I feel like I might want to start with fewer goats, if they can handle the weeds on 20 acres.  We'll have 15 acres of pasture-- there are a few steers on that, in addition to the goats--and 4 acres of woods.  

Also, the current owners keep their goats' horns.  This makes me nervous!  The owners say the horns aren't a problem.  They say they cull any goats who use their horns on people, making for a docile herd.  They also run electric fence along the inside of their perimeter fences, so they say the goats keep back from the fences and don't get their heads stuck.  Still, horns on a big boer scare me.  Fortunately, the older goats' horns curl back so there's less chance of them impaling someone, but still.  Any thoughts on what I should do about the horns?  Take my chances?  Tennis balls on the end of the kids' horns?  Band the kids' horns?  Just let the owners sell these guys and buy fresh, de-horned stock?

Thanks for your thoughts!


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## tindi (Jun 15, 2017)

I have two five year old nigerian & pygmy goats, both with horns. I've gotten a black eye, cheek bruise and a few nasty bruises on my legs from their horns over the years and mine are very tame. Both my goats horns curl back as well. My female can have a bit of a attitude but I could never cull her because of it but I am careful around her. If I was doing it all over again I would have bought them de-horned. They are penned in with no climb horse fence. I would say go with your gut then you won't have regrets later especially since you are looking at larger goats. Plus why not get a couple and see what is involved cause you can always add to your herd later on.


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 15, 2017)

I think the price is good.  And that's not a huge number for the space you have.
It's standard to leave the horns on Boer goats.


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## babsbag (Jun 15, 2017)

My Boers were much "kinder" with their horns than dairy stock but I still prefer no horns. When I grab a horned goat by the collar and it raises its head I get my hand pinched between the horn and their head.  But horns make good hand holds and steering wheels. I have also been told that horns help with hot weather. If you ever show or sell for shows they have to have horns. 

The Hotwire is a great idea for any goat. It keeps them from reaching over the fence and standing on it. I have it on all of my fences. You will have to be careful with feeders and horned goats. Especially kids that will put their head in but not pull it out because of their little horns. 

It was also my experience that my Boers  were not great at eating browse. Grass, yes, but anything that requires them reaching over their head was too much work. Maybe I fed them too much hay. LOL


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## Alaskan (Jun 15, 2017)

If you have super hot weather, horns are good, since they help a goat cool off.

However, these are YOUR pets and livestock, no reason to have them if you don't like them.  

The price is good, but I say look around for a goat that makes your heart melt.   You wanna look at the goat and think "dang! What a cute critter!"  If you don't feel that way about the goat....then the trouble and expenses will drive you crazy.

As to the number you need..... if the place has lots of cross fencing, you will need fewer animals because you can keep them in a small space until they eat whatever nasty stuff is there.  In a large space with a few goats, they will avoid the nasty stuff and just eat a little of this, and a little of that.


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## Latestarter (Jun 17, 2017)

I think you'll find that 6-8 goats are not going to be able to keep up with 15 acres of pasture... They'll eat what they want and move on and you'll find that you'll need to brush hog or mow it down to keep the stuff they don't want to eat, under control.


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## LMK17 (Jun 18, 2017)

Latestarter said:


> I think you'll find that 6-8 goats are not going to be able to keep up with 15 acres of pasture... They'll eat what they want and move on and you'll find that you'll need to brush hog or mow it down to keep the stuff they don't want to eat, under control.



I know that the current owners have had about that number of goats at any given time, and the goats do eat some of the weeds, though, like you said, not all of them.  The goats have done a fantastic job of getting rid of poison ivy in the wooded part of the property, though.  The owners now mow once a year.  Often, they have a neighbor make hay.  

So, I guess really what I'm looking for is a couple goats to help with weeds and to have around as pets.  Eventually, I might want to get more into goats, but I'd like to get my feet wet first.  Any thoughts on the "best" number to start with for that purpose?


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## Alaskan (Jun 18, 2017)

Then start with 3.

No, that isn't enough to keep down the brush, but that is a small enough number that they can be more pet than livestock.  Also, 3 isn't overwhelming.


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## Mini Horses (Jun 19, 2017)

Have raised Boers and dairy.   Yes, Boers are less aggressive with their horns than dairy.....who are more "divas" and want more attention.   You can file the tips a little to help blunt the horns.   Accidents can happen regardless.

Yes, the dairy tend to be more climber than Boer as the Boer have shorter leg and heavier body, graze a little more.  For meat, Boers bring more $$.   Dairy more $$ for milking.  Both breeds can be tame or wild -- frequent handling is key, especially as youngsters. 

It's a personal choice.  Price sounds good for a healthy animal.  A plus would be that the current stock know their boundaries & are already attuned to farm germs/parasites.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 19, 2017)

Sounds like a good price to me. As far as horns go we were pro horns for a long time but i've been accidentally hit by horns enough i now find them annoying. I am considering having the 3 tog girls horns taken off. All that said, we do have one 3/4 boer 1/4 nubian and she has horns and i've never had an issue with them so i dont worry about them. 

If I recall right your place is 1 units per 5 acres? A goat is 0.1 units so 10 goats per 5 acres. If you want something that should keep the pasture mowed down for you, sheep do a really good job and have the same stocking rate as goats...if your family likes lamb at all. I find sheep are much easier to raise compared to my goats and if you get a polled sheep breed no horns to worry about.


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## Green Acres Farm (Jun 19, 2017)

Before you purchase them, please get them tested for at least CAE. It is more common than you'd think and it's a huge waste of money to buy positive goats.


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## LMK17 (Jun 22, 2017)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Before you purchase them, please get them tested for at least CAE. It is more common than you'd think and it's a huge waste of money to buy positive goats.



That's a really good recommendation.  I wonder, though, what happens if they come back positive?  They've lived on that farm their entire lives (with the exception of the past week-- see below); wouldn't a positive test indicate that the virus is present *on the property*?  What would that mean for future animal acquisitions; would all new animals inevitably be exposed?  

Also, the goats were just moved to the owners' new property down the street.  They moved them last week.  I'm not crazy about the move from a bio security standpoint.  I MUCH preferred purchasing animals that were born on our new farm.  How concerned should I be that the goats picked up some "bug" during their time on the other property?

What all should I have them tested for before we move them back to our new place?


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 22, 2017)

If they only moved down the street odds of them picking up something new are pretty darn slim...so long as other livestock were not on that property or neighboring property in a few years and the owners didnt bring in any new stock with the moved old stock.


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## Alaskan (Jun 22, 2017)

From what I understand. ..CAE is a spit and body fluids thing..... so, it is actually not something that stays in the soil.


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## misfitmorgan (Jun 23, 2017)

CAE
*Caprine arthritis encephalitis* (*CAE*) is a contagious viral disease of *goats*. The disease is typically *spread* from mother to kid through the ingestion of colostrum or milk. *CAE* virus may also be *spread* among adult *goats* through contact with body secretions including blood and feces of infected *goats*.

CL
*Caseous lymphadenitis* is a contagious bacterial infection of the lymph nodes of sheep and goats. It is caused by a bacterium called Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis. Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis, the bacterium that causes the disease *CL*, is *spread* from animal to animal primarily through contact with material from subcutaneous abscesses (pus) or fomites (inanimate objects) contaminated with abscess material.

JOHNE'S DISEASE
*Johne's* (“YO-knees”) disease is a fatal gastrointestinal disease of *goats* and other ruminants (including cattle, sheep, elk, deer, and bison) that is caused by the bacterium Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis (MAP).This infection is contagious, which means it can spread from one animal to another. MAP is hardy - while it cannot replicate outside of an infected animal, it is resistant to heat, cold and drying.

I think MAP or CL is the one your thinking of staying in the soil as MAP can 'live" in the soil for up to 13 months in ideal conditions and CL can for several months as well.


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## BottleBabbiesrLife (Dec 29, 2017)

babsbag said:


> My Boers were much "kinder" with their horns than dairy stock but I still prefer no horns. When I grab a horned goat by the collar and it raises its head I get my hand pinched between the horn and their head.  But horns make good hand holds and steering wheels. I have also been told that horns help with hot weather. If you ever show or sell for shows they have to have horns.
> 
> The Hotwire is a great idea for any goat. It keeps them from reaching over the fence and standing on it. I have it on all of my fences. You will have to be careful with feeders and horned goats. Especially kids that will put their head in but not pull it out because of their little horns.
> 
> It was also my experience that my Boers  were not great at eating browse. Grass, yes, but anything that requires them reaching over their head was too much work. Maybe I fed them too much hay. LOL


 

instead of grabbing with there colors you grab from there horns its much easier


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 30, 2017)

Having raised, handled, worked with, and managed several herds, (not just my own, meat and dairy, probably several hundred goats) I would have to disagree. Goats do not like being grabbed by their horns. 
Would you like to be grabbed by your hair, or your hand?

I raise dairy goats, although I have managed meat goat herd in the past (the basic daily stuff, to fecal analysis, health troubleshooting, the whole bit). I can honestly say from experience, that collars have been much easier on me and the goats.


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