# Boer/Pygmy Crosses?



## MidnightChickenLover

Does any one have any pictures? I was thinking that if you have the cross you could improve the faster growth (muscling) rate by putting in genetics for the lower height. I've heard they weren't the best crosses, but it is hard finding pictures.. and the ones that do usually don't have the best boers.. I've seen a beautiful cross that looked like a boer doeling with shorter legs and a little less width...


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## ()relics

The type of kid you are referring to, I think, would be a boer buck on a pygmy doe. This would give you a miniature looking boer type kid.  Problem being Boer bucks are bred and prized for putting the biggest kids on the ground.   A pygmy doe just isn't set up to deliver a 10+# kid.Or for that matter built to have a 200+# buck trying to mate with her...A pygmy buck on a boer doe would simply be WRONG...so I won't go into it....but would require a step stool....jmo...Just an FYI...a pygmy cross anything would never win a wether show.  Meat wethers are judged  partly on their loin and its quality and length...A pygmy doesn't have much meat there or length...again JMO


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## Roll farms

I have to agree 100% w/ Relics, and wonder why you'd want to reduce the size of an animal that's meant to be big / meaty.

You only dress out at roughly 40% w/ goat carcasses...you want more, not less.

I've seen a lot of 'accidental' boer x pygmies.  Not a one yet has made me think, "That's a nice cross."

I've got nothing against crosses in meat goats, I prefer them a lot of the time, but that cross just isn't one I'd ponder for long.


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## MidnightChickenLover

Well, It doesn't really depend on the size, per se, it depends on the amount of meat. For meat prodution, if your selling at market age, you want a goat that grows fast and heavy. Boers do not need to be as tall as they are, if they wouldn't grow as tall "they" would focus on more putting on muscle instead of height too. It was just a theory. If I came a nice young meaty pygmy, that had a long loin and a wide chest, I would certainly have to think twice about passing it up..


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## ()relics

I have _Never_ seen a true pygmy goat with a loin any bigger than a large rabbit, and I used to raise pygmys.  In fact, pygmys are meat goats, originally. But recently, the past 20 years or so, they have been bred towards an ornamental or show animal only.  In the US we sell market animals based on their live weight on the hoof when they are sent to slaughter.  I guarentee I sell market wethers at 100 days that are heavier, therefore more valuable, than most _True Pygmys_ would ever get no matter how long you feed them.  Possibly you may be talking about some sort of crossbred goat that appears to be a pygmy.  These goats are commonly sold _as_ pygmys but just get way too big to actually be anything but a crossbred goat.  If you wanted a shorter goat you would be better suited to find a shortlegged line of boers and breed them to be shorter...Again shorter = not as good in my book anyway.  BTW boers were developed to be taller because they can carry more meat and have a better loin....You are suggesting the reverse...Read some of the boer threads, occasionally you will read someone post that the particular goat is shortlegged...That wouldn't be good.  

Want to develop a new line of goats that are more efficient?  So does eveyone...I started a similar project 5 years ago working on a better milking goat that could raise kids to an early market weight BUT they had to be low maintainence, disease/parasite resistent, low feed input, good mothers....Did it work?  I would say yes...Did I start a new breed of goats?  NO I just have a good grade commercial herd that is low maintainence and makes great kids...and they support my FB hobby


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## jodief100

This discussion about breeding short legged boers makes me laugh.  I keep imagining a goat that is built like a pig..... very long and short.  

My own opinion is height in boers is not as important as length.  They do need height to support the heavy frame but height by itself doesn't make a meatier goat.  There needs to be a good balance between the two.  I have seen a kiko x pigmy and she would have been a decent goat except her teats were lopsided.  Not ideal body structure, but not bad either.  

Most breeders, me included, are trying to develop their own strains to suit whatever their personal goals are.  We all find eventually compromises must be made and traits need to be prioritized.  I would love to develop a fast growing, low maintenance, high weaning rate, parasite and disease resistant, low feed input goat.  Right now I am concentrating on parasite and disease resistant and high weaning rates.  I choose these traits over fast growing.  I can sell a small goat for more than I can sell a dead one for.    

I think if chickenlover wants to develop a short legged Boer for the meat and* not show *market, it would be an interesting project. Not one I would attempt because I don't think there would be an advantage.    I believe there would be a niche market for such a goat but it would have to be meaty and not just short.


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## ALANB

Thankyou , Indiana Relic :  Could not have said it better  .  A Boer/Pigmy cross would cause extreme Trama in kidding , possible death in both Kids and Dams !!!  A little common sense should prevail !!! ....... ALANB.


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## ()relics

My last comment, for now anyway, is:  If you want to breed boers/alpines/togs/qhorse/whatever, then you would want to go to a sanctioned show for the appropriate breed.  Check out what all/most of the animals look like.  Now you have an idea of "the Accepted Standard" of that particular breed.  If you decide you want to change a certain feature of that breed because you think you can "Better" the breed standard, you are free to try...BUT don't expect PB/FB breeders/showman to accept your "new version" as being anything more than some ill-hatched crossbred goat...Remember Size=weight....taller meat goats=longer bones...longer bones=the ability to carry more meat, if for structure alone....more meat=BIGGER/HEAVIER market animals....bigger/heavier market animals=more weight....more weight=more money in my pocket at slaughter...JMO...
  one last market item..."My" market demands young wether kids.  These kids bring the maximum premium price when they are newly weaned, 100 days or so, with the smallest input costs.  These newly weaned kids, that are at their peak value, bring an extra premium if they are at least 50#....Try that with a pygmy cross.


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## jodief100

()relics said:
			
		

> These newly weaned kids, that are at their peak value, bring an extra premium if they are at least 50#....Try that with a pygmy cross.


I get a premium at 40-60 lbs but the per lb price drops over that. It drops considerably over 80 lbs.  I do have a few customers who want 20-25 lb kids. They pay a big premium for those since I do have a minimum price I have to get.  That would be the niche market here.  It is mostly Eastern Orthodox who want a family meal at Easter.


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## aggieterpkatie

British bloodlines for many sheep are WAY shorter than that of American lines.  Just for fun, look at these pictures.  This  is a British version of a Suffolk ram.  This  is the American version.  

I know we're talking about goats, but the concept is the same.  I did a little reading, and in the UK they don't want tall sheep, because they say shorter animals graze better. Plus, look at the body size on that short sheep...still good size, and long legs just create more air under the sheep, not more meat on the sheep.  

Back to the original question, I do believe the OP would be better off breeding short Boers than trying to do a cross.


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## cmjust0

MidnightChickenLover said:
			
		

> Well, It doesn't really depend on the size, per se, it depends on the amount of meat.


I get what you're saying here...they'd be small, but they'd pack a whole lot of meat in a very small package.

It's a neat concept, but here's the problem...

It's only a neat concept until that animal goes to sale, at which point I gaurantee you that it would be TOTALLY LOST on the kill buyer..  He's not gonna look at that animal and think "Hey, I bet that animal would dress out at a higher percentage than your average boer..."  Instead, he's gonna look at it in terms of total pounds dressed, and the smaller it is, the less it's going to dress out.

Like, if you could design a breed that dressed out at 60%, that's great...but if it only weighs 20lbs, that's still only 12lbs of meat to be had.  To the kill buyer comparing that with one that weighs 60lbs and yields 24lbs of meat, the bigger animal yields 200% of the meat as the smaller one.  It may 3-times the money for 2-times the meat, but the smaller animal is also gonna require nearly as much time on the table as the larger animal, it's gonna yield smaller cuts, and -- let's face it -- if you need x-pounds of meat, it's probably better to get it with only as many tenuous heartbeats as are absolutely necessary.

I *do* get what you're saying, though..  And if you can find folks out there looking to raise just a little bit of goat meat for their own table in their own small backyards, it might be a good cross...but I'm thinking there aren't a whole big bunch of folks out there doing that.


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## ksalvagno

If this is something that you really want to try and it doesn't matter if it works out or not, then go for it and try. Although I would be sure to breed a Pygmy male to a Boer female. To me your biggest market for this would be the city folks who only have 2 in the family and want that grass fed or "natural" meat and don't have room/ don't want a full beef in the freezer. But, most people don't eat goat so you have to find people who would be interested in goat meat.

You could always start with butchering some and offering a package of meat to friends and family and go from there and hope that they like it enough to order from you and tell their friends and family. Then your business could be taking the goats to the butcher and the people just picking up the packaged meat from the butcher. They pay you for the goat and they pay the butcher for the processing fees of the goat they bought. That is what we originally did with a friend who raised Texas Long Horn cattle. We paid him for our portion of the cow and then we picked up our meat and paid the butcher for his fees. Never saw the cow alive and at that point didn't want to know.

If you want to do something different from the norm, then you have to be more creative in your marketing and find other avenues for sales.


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## SDGsoap&dairy

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> British bloodlines for many sheep are WAY shorter than that of American lines.  Just for fun, look at these pictures.  This  is a British version of a Suffolk ram.  This  is the American version.


What a difference!  The UK version is a cobby little critter isn't he?  Cute!


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## cmjust0

Just found a picture of PygBoer on CL...






He's intact.  If you want him, he's only $25. 

Between me and you, I can see WHY he's only $25.    

Yikes..


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## SDGsoap&dairy




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## Jewllz

Actually I breed a Boer Doe to a pygmy buck every year and never have issues. Also the kids are fantastic. They are perfect, yes it wouldn't work as well with a pygmy doe but a boer doe works great and I do have pictures of them. They are adorable and they grow very well. One of the kids looks like a purebred boer kid she had years ago, the other has the legs of a pygmy but otherwise mostly looks like a boer.


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## Jewllz

these are the kids the day they were born. They have grown quite a bit since then, but these are the only pictures I have of them I have on my laptop.


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## danielle

I have a boer in pygmy  cross doe they r just bigger but short


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## danielle

I have a boer in pygmy  cross doe they r just bigger but short


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