# Some newbie questions on LGDs



## amoona (Oct 10, 2015)

My family is planning on buying some land for a farm. We're hoping to have about 50 chickens and 10 or so goats for now. 
We have coyotes, raccoons, hawks, the like. We want to get an LGD. We'll have roughly 16 acres of land. 

First, if we had an LGD or two, would we able to free range the chickens without them getting killed or without them wandering into the forest? As in, would the LGD be able to make sure that doesn't happen?

Second, for the amount of land we'd have, would we need one or two LGDs? I was thinking a Great Pyrenees or an Anatolian. What are the major differences between these and which would be best for our amount of space and type of animals? I understand that LGDs aren't usually going to be okay with poultry to start off with, so lots of training will be involved. Could someone add some detail on what training an LGD is like?

Third, due to religious reasons the LGD would not be able to come in the house. We would still provide him/her with lots of love, though.  Where would be a good place for him/her to sleep? Here our winters aren't too rough, but they do get pretty chilly at night.

Thank you!


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## Goat Whisperer (Oct 10, 2015)

@Southern by choice is a good one to talk to.


Go throughout the LGD section and look at the posts made by he. That may be able to answer some of your questions. 

Welcome  to BYH's!


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## amoona (Oct 10, 2015)

Okay, thank you @Goat Whisperer !


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## Southern by choice (Oct 10, 2015)

Yes, many of your questions can be answered through numerous threads posted already in the LGD section.

Fencing (at least hotwire) will be necessary.
They are not herding animals and will not prevent your birds from going into the woods.

I am a strong believer in LGD's as pairs. They are pack animals by nature. Having said that.. many of our pups are singles and do fine.
Not sure what region you are in but the heat is hard on Pyrs with heavy coats. There are differences in the two breeds. You should be able to find that in the posts also. I know I have shared this many times. LOL

As far as them not coming in the house... LGD's do not need to be in the house that is why they are livestock guardian dogs... they live with their charges. They love cold weather more so that hot.
They sleep in the barns and on the land.

I do see you mentioned 


amoona said:


> due to religious reasons


I believe all the Livestock Guardians- the dog, llamas and donkeys are all unclean.


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## babsbag (Oct 10, 2015)

I have 5 acres, the goats and dogs are on about 1 acre at night. I have two dogs and wouldn't have it any other way. They play together, work together, eat together, and sometimes sleep together. Even with that small amount of land we have enough coyotes to keep them both busy some nights. Coyotes are smart and will sometimes try to engage a dog while another coyote goes in for the kill. My dogs work in a team and most of the time one patrols the fences and the other hangs with the herd. They are seldom both on the fence line and no one with the herd. The last few nights I have heard them both barking and working, thinking about a third dog.


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## secuono (Oct 11, 2015)

Chickens need to be behind electric fencing. 
If the dogs don't follow the birds 24/7, fox will sneak up on them no problem. 
Chickens argue, dogs get dull to their screams and flapping. 

LGDs should live full time with stock.  Puppies should live in kennel next to stock. Supervised time for months once older. The goats should be priority, as chickens are frail and easily injured by accident. It won't be for 2+ years that the dog will be reliable. 
Buy an adult if possible or older started pup.
Buy a second dog once first is trained, adult and 100% trustworthy. Then pup can be left with goats and adult LGD nearly full time. 

Get good fencing. Barbed wire and hot wire don't work on most goats. 4ft field fencing with hot wire on top and midway.


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## amoona (Oct 11, 2015)

Southern by choice said:


> Yes, many of your questions can be answered through numerous threads posted already in the LGD section.
> 
> Fencing (at least hotwire) will be necessary.
> They are not herding animals and will not prevent your birds from going into the woods.
> ...



I've read through some of your posts and many of my questions have been answered! 

I'm in central-western oregon...so pretty mild temperatures most of the year, but in the summer it can get up to about 90 or 100. I'm assuming that's too hot for a Pyr?
And they're only just not supposed to be in the house, it's okay if they're unclean. 
Thank you for your help!


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## amoona (Oct 11, 2015)

babsbag said:


> I have 5 acres, the goats and dogs are on about 1 acre at night. I have two dogs and wouldn't have it any other way. They play together, work together, eat together, and sometimes sleep together. Even with that small amount of land we have enough coyotes to keep them both busy some nights. Coyotes are smart and will sometimes try to engage a dog while another coyote goes in for the kill. My dogs work in a team and most of the time one patrols the fences and the other hangs with the herd. They are seldom both on the fence line and no one with the herd. The last few nights I have heard them both barking and working, thinking about a third dog.


I've heard those coyotes are real smart little rascals. Judging from what you all have said, I think we'll be getting two for now, maybe 3 in the the future if needed.
Thank you!


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## amoona (Oct 11, 2015)

secuono said:


> Chickens need to be behind electric fencing.
> If the dogs don't follow the birds 24/7, fox will sneak up on them no problem.
> Chickens argue, dogs get dull to their screams and flapping.
> 
> ...


I see. It'll still be a while till we get the LGDs, but I'm takin' notes on all this for the future. 
Thanks for your help!


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## Southern by choice (Oct 11, 2015)

The working age will vary. All our Lgd's are full time somewhere between 12-16 weeks. The age old "not trustworthy til 2 years" is a joke. This has more to do with the owner than any other factor.
Breeders play a big role also.
All our dogs and pups are completely trustworthy before a year of age. This year our 2 10 month old Pyr pups were right there while our does kidded. Pups at 7 and 8 months have kids climbing on them.
I have several 9 month old pups that recently went to their new homes... all singles and all doing well.
Poultry is an issue for many and the issues really start at 7-9 months after  a long lull.

They do not fully mature til around 2-3 but if they cannot be trusted or work before then why would anyone get one?  Minor hiccups should be expected from a 1 year old but nothing so big it should prevent them from being full time guardians.

oops hit post before I was done.

Having them full time is part of the equation, the other part is having them be powerful enough to do the job, which is usually around 12months. Depending on type of predator.
Our 9 month Anatolian/pyrenees pups are 115 pounds now and very big and powerful. They are fearless but as a single dog they may not have the fortitude as of yet to take a coyote. They are still in the developmental stage but they of course know how to bark and hit the fence which is the first deterrent.


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## Baymule (Oct 11, 2015)

Good for you for going and reading the back posts! And welcome to BYH! Anytime you need help or have questions, post it and people here will be happy to help you.


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## babsbag (Oct 12, 2015)

My first LGD was with my goats full time and unsupervised when she was 4 months old  (when I got her) and never ever had a problem. I got my male when he was 8 weeks old and my  female was about 5 months old and he too was with the goats 24/7. They both have a place to go to get away from the goats but I never had them in a kennel. As a matter of fact, that is him in my avatar kissing an hour old kid...the dog is about 6 months old at that time. I worried more about them getting injured by a goat than them injuring a goat.

I have raised 4 litters of pup and they are with the goats full time starting at about 6 weeks. I do supervise the pups if there are young goats on the ground but I never worry about them with the older does.  

Poultry was a lot harder, the male especially. He was probably about 18 months before he outgrew his fondness for poultry.

A few things I would have done differently... I would have trained them for basic commands...sit, come, down would have been nice. I would have spent more time introducing them to my border collies, I would have corrected them when they want the afterbirth before it was delivered.   I would have trained them to get in the car/truck. They are leash trained, at least I got that right. 

Mine are both people friendly but I have no doubt they would protect me to the death. I can't imagine my life without them; they are more for my protection and my feeling safe than they are for the goats.

 I have good fences, 2x4 no climb with hot wire top, bottom, and middle. The dogs stay in, the varmints stay out, and the goats don't rub on the fence and tear it down...works for all of us.


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