# How To Care for Orphan Calf? (Maybe)



## Lanthanum (Dec 25, 2016)

I recently visited my Uncle's farm, in which he has about 25-30 cows + a bull. I stated that I wanted a milk calf to bottle raise, and they told me that they will give me one for free but can't promise what gender it will be. Reason being, they have one crazy cow that births every year but refuses to feed the calf and the calf has died the past four years. They said they will let me bottle feed the calf and keep it when it's born. Is this a good idea? I've been looking at getting a cow and now I can get one for free. I don't know what breed they are, but can say they are HUGE cows, come in a variety of colors and make good milk. Mostly black but there are five blue cows and a few dark reds and two light reds too. She births during spring, obviously, but I would like to be prepared if she does birth a cow and rejects it again. If it is a bull I will raise for meat or 4H, and if it's a cow she will be for milk.


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## norseofcourse (Dec 25, 2016)

That's sad that she's had four calves and all have died - that would worry me, though - did they all die right after birth, or did someone try to bottle raise them and none of them made it?


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## Lanthanum (Dec 25, 2016)

norseofcourse said:


> That's sad that she's had four calves and all have died - that would worry me, though - did they all die right after birth, or did someone try to bottle raise them and none of them made it?


That's the thing, having a farm is busy work and it's just the two of them so they couldn't bottle feed the babies themselves and mamma kept rejecting them. They said the calves lived about a day or two, and once one lived five days at the most but they found her dead too. I am a bit cautious as well to if it's really her rejecting them, but they said they were born healthy but never saw the mamma feeding them and when they'd try she'd move away. So really it is just a hypothesis, not 100% sure. Even if it's not, if I have the baby and it's getting the milk it needs and it still dies, we can bring it to the vet to see about what is going on.


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## norseofcourse (Dec 25, 2016)

I understand busy.  Sorry they weren't able to bottle feed or find someone who could.  If you get it, have an area prepared for it, and have colostrum on hand to feed it right away, within hours of birth if possible.

Hope some cattle folks stop by soon for more info for you - @WildRoseBeef @farmerjan and there's more I just can't think of names!


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## farmerjan (Dec 25, 2016)

First off, sounds like a perfect opportunity to get yourself a calf.  NOW since this cow has a history of the calf not getting to eat, I have to question why in the world they have kept her for so long with nothing productive out of her,  but that is not the issue.  I do think, having beef cattle as well as some dairy animals, that she is just rejecting it and there is probably nothing wrong with it.  She would have been on a truck for Mcdonalds to have a big mac attack the second year she did that if she was mine.
From the descriptions of them I would hazard a guess that they are black angus and maybe crossed with some shorthorn as that cross often results in what we call blue roan cattle here.  Since shorthorns are red, white and roan  I would say without any pictures that is their make up.
You will have to figure that the calf doesn't get any colostrum so get a package from the feed store or where ever you deal with.  It's expensive, but will give the calf the antibodies that are so crucial for it's survival.  About $10-15 for a bag that you will mix with water.  If you can get the calf within the first 12 hours then get 2 bags so it will have a very good gut full of the colostrum.  Or  if you live near a dairy, go ask if they would sell you a couple of gallons of colostrum from a fresh cow.  But the thing is THEY NEED those antibodies.  Feed a bottle as soon as you get it and another 8-12 hours later.  Plus the colostrum is thicker, and will help to get their whole gut system "started".  A calf has a "meconium" that is like a "plug" in the bowel and they need to pass that after they are born and the colostrum also helps them to do that.

Then make sure you get ALL MILK milk replacer.  Do not use any with soy in it.  Their systems cannot utilize the soy based ones, and if they live they will be "poor " but it basically is starving them.  This is from YEARS and 100's of bottle calves experience.  Give the calf 1 bottle, which is 1/2  gallon, TWICE a day.  Yes they will want more but you can cause them to get scours (diahrrea) (sp)  if you give them too much.  Better a little hungry than sick.  Put a bucket of water there for them and from about a week or 2 you can offer a handful of a calf starter feed and a little hay.  Calves learn from their momma's so you will have to put a little of the feed in their mouth to get them to taste it and they will get it, eventually.  

You will need to feed a bottle for at least 8 weeks but I like to do it for 10-12 so they are getting enough as they transition to feed.  When it is eating good you can cut back the bottle to once a day then stop in another week.


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## Latestarter (Dec 25, 2016)

Sounds like an ideal situation to me! A free cow for you to raise. What's the worst that can happen? You got great advice form a seasoned veteran right above. I'd say that you should have these folks let you know ASAP after the calf is born and NOT WAIT. Getting the colostrum into the calf is life or death and needs to happen within hours of birth if possible. If you wait 24 hours or more, you're too late. I would tie up the bad mom cow and try to milk the colostrum out of her... If you can get a gallon, you'll have the first 2 feedings taken care of and in time... One immediately and the 2nd 8-12 hours later. Good luck and hope when the time comes you'll add this to your journal w/pics!


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## Lanthanum (Dec 25, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> First off, sounds like a perfect opportunity to get yourself a calf.  NOW since this cow has a history of the calf not getting to eat, I have to question why in the world they have kept her for so long with nothing productive out of her,  but that is not the issue.  I do think, having beef cattle as well as some dairy animals, that she is just rejecting it and there is probably nothing wrong with it.  She would have been on a truck for Mcdonalds to have a big mac attack the second year she did that if she was mine.
> From the descriptions of them I would hazard a guess that they are black angus and maybe crossed with some shorthorn as that cross often results in what we call blue roan cattle here.  Since shorthorns are red, white and roan  I would say without any pictures that is their make up.
> You will have to figure that the calf doesn't get any colostrum so get a package from the feed store or where ever you deal with.  It's expensive, but will give the calf the antibodies that are so crucial for it's survival.  About $10-15 for a bag that you will mix with water.  If you can get the calf within the first 12 hours then get 2 bags so it will have a very good gut full of the colostrum.  Or  if you live near a dairy, go ask if they would sell you a couple of gallons of colostrum from a fresh cow.  But the thing is THEY NEED those antibodies.  Feed a bottle as soon as you get it and another 8-12 hours later.  Plus the colostrum is thicker, and will help to get their whole gut system "started".  A calf has a "meconium" that is like a "plug" in the bowel and they need to pass that after they are born and the colostrum also helps them to do that.
> 
> ...


The reason they keep her is because she is their friendliest cow and can't bear to just send her off somewhere

 My phone was dead when I was at the farm so i didnt get pictures but once I get the calf I will definitely have some. 

 I asked them to let me know as soon as the calf was born so I could come get it, or to let me be over there when her due date is close so I'll be there at birth. 

 This is great advice and I will be absolutely sure to heed it. I will definitely post back here once the calf is born


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## babsbag (Dec 25, 2016)

If she isn't the first cow to give birth then I would get colostrum from one of their other cows and have it in the freezer and ready to go. The cows will have plenty to share so don't worry about taking some from a cow with a calf of her own to raise. That colostrum is critical to survival.


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## farmerjan (Dec 25, 2016)

I agree with getting colostrum from a cow if possible.  However, as I read it, and correct me if I am wrong, the whole problem is that this cow won't let the calf suck.  I would greatly doubt that she will let a person milk her.  And if they are beef cows, the possibility of someone milking them is probably slim.  Plus, most beef cows do not have alot  of colostrum like a dairy cow does.  They tend to take a day or two to let their milk down well, nature designing it that way partly so that the calf does not get too much at first.  Plus realize that the calf is going to maybe get a pint to a quart a feeding, but will nurse several times a day.  It is just nature's way for them to not over produce in the beginning, so that it doesn't scour the calf.  Unless they are big pets, getting another beef cow into a chute or something, to contain her to milk her,  with her brand new calf to "protect and take care of", is asking for a fight.  Been there done that.

  And not to talk you out of a calf but have they ever tried to put her in a chute and physically put the calf on her so that she has to feed it?  Maybe she has never actually realized what the calf is supposed to do. And maybe she  ___doesn't  have any milk___ to feed the calf.  Had a recently bought cow that uddered up and 3 days later the calf died.  She was not at a pasture where we could get her in.  The next year she was at a different place, uddered up, calved, and I saw the calf with it's head up under her nursing.  2 days later the older lady that owned this place, called and said that the calf looked weak.  So, I went up, got them in the pen and when we got the cow in the chute she had 3 dead quarters and the 4th had crappy looking junk.  The calf was starving.  I took it home, put it on a bottle and the cow went to town. Again, regardless of how friendly she is, she is costing them money by never paying her way with a calf, and abandoning it to die is just inexcusable.  Sorry to say but alot of times it is the "pet cow" that is the most trouble.  Don't know why, just have seen that time and again.  With dairy cattle, it is often the show animal that is a miserable dispositioned b**** in the barn when they first come fresh.  

All that aside, there is alot of information about colostrum having to be fed in the first 12 hours or their systems can't/won't absorb the antibodies.  Again there are a few other studies that are questioning that.  I am of the second group.  I will give colostrum to a calf up to 5 days old if I get one from somewhere that I am not sure what he has had.  Reason, that even if they don't get much in the way of antibodies, there are still properties in that colostrum that seem to feed the bacteria in the gut so that it functions better.  And if it is colostrum from one of my own cows, then they are getting immunity properties that are specific to my farm and I just firmly believe that it gives the calf a better chance.  So yes, get colostrum into the calf as soon as possible after birth, but even if it is the next day, give it at least one bottle of some type of colostrum.  Cheap insurance to get it's digestive system started.

If the cows are pasture bred they won't have an exact due date; even with ultrasound it will be at least a week or more plus or minus.  When we run a bull with cows, we document when he goes in and when he comes out.  Then when we do pregnancy checks, the vet will say she is 5 months or 3  months or 6 plus.  With the date in and out we know that the cow will be due within a certain time frame but it's like people....they will calve when they are ready.  Even if they see her in heat and get bred,  you are still looking a week plus or minus.  Sitting there waiting for her to calve is like watching a pot waiting for it to boil.

If you can manage to get some colostrum from the mother or from another cow there,  then that's wonderful.  But when a beef cow gives birth, they are normally very protective and if you upset them you can get hurt.  It's not worth getting hurt or really upsetting a cow for that.  Buy a pkg of colostrum, it is guaranteed to have a certain level of antibodies and go from there.


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## Lanthanum (Dec 25, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> I agree with getting colostrum from a cow if possible.  However, as I read it, and correct me if I am wrong, the whole problem is that this cow won't let the calf suck.  I would greatly doubt that she will let a person milk her.  And if they are beef cows, the possibility of someone milking them is probably slim.  Plus, most beef cows do not have alot  of colostrum like a dairy cow does.  They tend to take a day or two to let their milk down well, nature designing it that way partly so that the calf does not get too much at first.  Plus realize that the calf is going to maybe get a pint to a quart a feeding, but will nurse several times a day.  It is just nature's way for them to not over produce in the beginning, so that it doesn't scour the calf.  Unless they are big pets, getting another beef cow into a chute or something, to contain her to milk her,  with her brand new calf to "protect and take care of", is asking for a fight.  Been there done that.
> 
> And not to talk you out of a calf but have they ever tried to put her in a chute and physically put the calf on her so that she has to feed it?  Maybe she has never actually realized what the calf is supposed to do. And maybe she  ___doesn't  have any milk___ to feed the calf.  Had a recently bought cow that uddered up and 3 days later the calf died.  She was not at a pasture where we could get her in.  The next year she was at a different place, uddered up, calved, and I saw the calf with it's head up under her nursing.  2 days later the older lady that owned this place, called and said that the calf looked weak.  So, I went up, got them in the pen and when we got the cow in the chute she had 3 dead quarters and the 4th had crappy looking junk.  The calf was starving.  I took it home, put it on a bottle and the cow went to town. Again, regardless of how friendly she is, she is costing them money by never paying her way with a calf, and abandoning it to die is just inexcusable.  Sorry to say but alot of times it is the "pet cow" that is the most trouble.  Don't know why, just have seen that time and again.  With dairy cattle, it is often the show animal that is a miserable dispositioned b**** in the barn when they first come fresh.
> 
> ...


I'm not entirely sure of the purpose of the cows so I have no idea why they have any of them. They don't butcher, they don't milk, and they aren't pets. I think it is just because my Aunt's near death father raised them as both when he was in good health amd wishes to have them around until he passes. 
They don't have a chute, only things they have for the cows is a huge feild and a shed that holds the tractor and a trailer full of hay to throw out in the feild every day. 
For some reason these cows aren't very matronly. They have about four or five calves right now in the feild, but you can't tell who they belong to. Even the tiny calves wander pretty far from the other cows and only come back to nurse and then leave again, and are already weaning themselves. Most of the cows have nothing to do with their calves.
They also don't like to be milked at all, so getting fresh colostrum isn't an option without someone getting hurt. I will check at Taylor Feed to see if they carry Colostrum, which they should, and what formula they have. 
I am honestly very uninformed on this subject, and I really hope everything goes well here. I've never even seen a cow up close except for the other day when I found out I could get one.


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## farmerjan (Dec 25, 2016)

Can you get a picture or 2 of the cows?  My curiosity is really up as to what they are.  I do believe that your best bet is the pkg. colostrum.  If for some reason you can't find it,  NASCO catalog or Jeffers  vet supply will have it and you can order it online.  But most every feed store should have it.  There are a couple of brands, but any that say bovine colostrum would probably work.. If one seems to have a higher level of IMg  that would be better, it has to do with the amount of immunoglobulin.  It's been a long time since I've bought any as I keep some frozen from my nurse cows when they come fresh, for any orphans we might have.  Fresh colostrum from any of these is obviously not an option.

One thing that beef cows do that many uninformed people don't realize, is that they will let their calves nurse, then they will leave the calves and go graze.  If the calves are very young, they are SUPPOSED to stay where momma left them.  It will seem like they are out there all alone, but the cow knows where she left her baby.  And many times there will be one cow near there and the rest are off somewhere else.  That one cow is like the babysitter.  Honest, they do this.  There will be 2 or 4 or a dozen calves in one general area and only one cow in sight.  DON"T think that if you were to go in there that they wouldn't all come running if one calf started to bawl like it was scared or say you caught ahold of it.  And those cows would be out to get you if they think their calf is being threatened.  The calves aren't weaning themselves, they have enough to eat and they were put there by the cow to stay there until they (mom) returns.  Thinking that the cow doesn't care is what gets people hurt.  Even the rejected calf will create an upset if it bawls when you go to catch it.  They are like the 3 musketeers, "all for one and one for all".  If one baby hollers, they will all come running.  Once the threat is done, then the  unwanted baby will again be left to it's own.
  If these cows belong to your aunt's aging/ill father, surely she must know something more about them.  I am thinking that they are beef cattle, they let them breed and calve  and let the cows raise the calves up and then sell the calves at around 6-8 months or so as what we call feeders.  This way they are not doing any butchering.  They must have some one come in and help sort out the calves and take them to a market to sell them.  The cows are there to raise a calf every year  and then when it is sold, that is their income to offset the costs of hay etc.  The cows will come in heat, get bred, carry the calf for 9 months, have the baby.  Then about 45 to 60 days or more they will come back in heat, get bred back and carry 9 months and then calve again.  The farmer usually  takes the calves off at anywhere from 5 to 9 months old, so the cow gets a rest for about 60-90 days before she calves again.  The whole idea is to get a calf every 12 months or about once a year.

If you can, try to get a book on raising bottle calves. Storey publications usually have some on the subject.  Go to the library and see if you can find one.  Don't panic about all the things that can go wrong....but you need to know more about what you are getting into, before you do it.
What kinds of animals are you familiar with?  Any other type of  farm "livestock"?  Goats, sheep anything like that, that you can draw from some experience?


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 25, 2016)

I don't know anything about cattle, but I'd make sure you know the herd is tested for Johne's. Especially if you are going to have the calf grow up with or around your goats.


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## farmerjan (Dec 25, 2016)

Okay, I just looked at your profile.  Since you are young, my first suggestion is find out if there is a 4-H club or an FFA club in your school or your area and get into it.  There will be a leader or another kid or someone who has some experience with cows, or call the local county extension service and find someone with cattle experience that you can talk to and learn from.  Hands on learning is the best way to go and they can help you alot more from an up close position than I or someone else can from this distance.  Is there an ag dept in your school?  An ag teacher could help you find someone who can help you, like a mentor.  Maybe someone your age that you could pal around with and learn firsthand.  Get a feel for it before the calf gets dropped in your lap so to speak.


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## Lanthanum (Dec 26, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> Okay, I just looked at your profile.  Since you are young, my first suggestion is find out if there is a 4-H club or an FFA club in your school or your area and get into it.  There will be a leader or another kid or someone who has some experience with cows, or call the local county extension service and find someone with cattle experience that you can talk to and learn from.  Hands on learning is the best way to go and they can help you alot more from an up close position than I or someone else can from this distance.  Is there an ag dept in your school?  An ag teacher could help you find someone who can help you, like a mentor.  Maybe someone your age that you could pal around with and learn firsthand.  Get a feel for it before the calf gets dropped in your lap so to speak.


I have been looking into 4-H, and there is an FFA dpt. in my school, but they charge money that we don't have to join. I've never seen any of the teachers around, (plus they don't seem very kind at all with their animals so I wish not to associate), and the only person I know who raises cows is Uncle Charles, and he's never bottle fed and isn't very informed with the cows he's raised. 

My Uncle Bo and Aunt Celena, however, have bottle raised a very healthy deer. Someone dropped off a tiny sickly fawn at their house and they bottle raised her into a fine young doe. They may know of things to do with the calf, my Uncle is a very experienced and educated  farmer. I attempted to bottle raise two pot bellies one time, but my evil older sister bothered them to the point anytime she was near them they would squeal, and she hated how they pooped everywhere so she made us get rid of them. I successfully bottle raised an orphan Possum whose mamma was hit by a car.

My Uncle Charles lives 63.7 miles away from me so it isn't often I can drive all the way there, so at the moment I have no pictures of the cattle.


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## farmerjan (Dec 26, 2016)

Okay, I am impressed that you are looking into ways to get some more knowledge about the calf and have checked into FFA at school.  I am not aware that they charge to join, most of the dairy farms that I deal with here in VA  have kids in 4-H or FFA.  I cannot speak for anyone there as to how they treat their animals.  But I will say this, and PLEASE don't be offended.  Sometimes what a person perceives as unkind to animals is simply that they are accepting that the animal is an animal and not a "lap dog" or a "human in animals clothes".. I am only saying this as I have seen and dealt with animals over the years that have been spoiled and allowed to get away with behaviour  that is at first cute, then it becomes a problem when the animal is older and too big to correct.  NOT SAYING that there aren't alot of people that are unkind or uncaring towards their animals.
Cattle can be very warm and affectionate and great companions.  They are still cattle and they will outweigh you by the time they are 6-8 weeks old.  A full grown mature cow is in the neighborhood of 800 to 1200 lbs.  If it has learned from birth you are the boss, they will respect you.  You can halter train them, teach them tricks, ride them, any one of a million things.  But if you spoil them and let them get away with things that they shouldn't, then down the road they will be too big for you to try to train them.  YOU CANNOT REASON with a cow.  All I am saying is that maybe what you see as not being kind has a reason, and you may be totally right and they are just not very caring of their animals.

Sounds like your Uncle Bo and Aunt Celena  are the "go to" people who can get you going with some knowledgeable advice and experience.  In this day and age of cell phones and all, I am hoping that you can contact them and talk to them about it. And since there is an ag dept at your school, then the library will be your first best source of info.  Go there, find some books on raising baby calves, and get a little knowledge so you can ask your aunt and uncle some questions that make sense and so that they realize that you are REALLY serious about this and that it is not just a whim of a 15 yr old.  Hey, I was 15 once a long time ago....I wanted a horse from the time I was a little kid.  Luckily my father had horses when he was young, but I had to read books, and through my babysitting money had to earn enough to buy my horse and pay for the materials to build her first little barn.  I owned her at 15;  she was about 20 months and I had to do ALL the taking care of her.  Before school, after school,  babysitting to pay for her hay and grain.  I had to take responsibility for it.  Parents said if I wanted her, I had to pay for her.  Yes they helped with alot of stuff, but I was her owner, not them.

So, get some book learning, then ask your aunt and uncle some intelligent questions when you tell them that you want to do this.  It sounds like that cow that abandons the calf will calve in a couple of months or even sooner so...get started.  You can do a great job if you have some common sense and are willing to learn and listen to others.  Don't take every bit of advise you get, but listen.  Even at my age  I certainly don't know everything.  I learn things every day, and have alot of years of experience to draw on.

Oh, what I would give to be your age again....


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## Lanthanum (Dec 26, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> Okay, I am impressed that you are looking into ways to get some more knowledge about the calf and have checked into FFA at school.  I am not aware that they charge to join, most of the dairy farms that I deal with here in VA  have kids in 4-H or FFA.  I cannot speak for anyone there as to how they treat their animals.  But I will say this, and PLEASE don't be offended.  Sometimes what a person perceives as unkind to animals is simply that they are accepting that the animal is an animal and not a "lap dog" or a "human in animals clothes".. I am only saying this as I have seen and dealt with animals over the years that have been spoiled and allowed to get away with behaviour  that is at first cute, then it becomes a problem when the animal is older and too big to correct.  NOT SAYING that there aren't alot of people that are unkind or uncaring towards their animals.
> Cattle can be very warm and affectionate and great companions.  They are still cattle and they will outweigh you by the time they are 6-8 weeks old.  A full grown mature cow is in the neighborhood of 800 to 1200 lbs.  If it has learned from birth you are the boss, they will respect you.  You can halter train them, teach them tricks, ride them, any one of a million things.  But if you spoil them and let them get away with things that they shouldn't, then down the road they will be too big for you to try to train them.  YOU CANNOT REASON with a cow.  All I am saying is that maybe what you see as not being kind has a reason, and you may be totally right and they are just not very caring of their animals.
> 
> Sounds like your Uncle Bo and Aunt Celena  are the "go to" people who can get you going with some knowledgeable advice and experience.  In this day and age of cell phones and all, I am hoping that you can contact them and talk to them about it. And since there is an ag dept at your school, then the library will be your first best source of info.  Go there, find some books on raising baby calves, and get a little knowledge so you can ask your aunt and uncle some questions that make sense and so that they realize that you are REALLY serious about this and that it is not just a whim of a 15 yr old.  Hey, I was 15 once a long time ago....I wanted a horse from the time I was a little kid.  Luckily my father had horses when he was young, but I had to read books, and through my babysitting money had to earn enough to buy my horse and pay for the materials to build her first little barn.  I owned her at 15;  she was about 20 months and I had to do ALL the taking care of her.  Before school, after school,  babysitting to pay for her hay and grain.  I had to take responsibility for it.  Parents said if I wanted her, I had to pay for her.  Yes they helped with alot of stuff, but I was her owner, not them.
> ...


They charge about 25 dollars just to join FFA, and more later to have any part in it. 
I know what you mean about spoiling them and I know the line between unkind and reasonable. I have just seen the teachers in the Ag building and they were just throwing their pigs around. They would put the tightening wire lead around their snouts and drag them to the trailer and kick them if they struggled too much. Not seriously harming them but it was definitely unnecessary. Poor pigs sounded like there was a massacre going on in there. Personally I think of my animals as family, but I know they respect me because I don't let them step out of line.
I pay for all my animals and work hard to find jobs if I want to get something extra, such as now I'm working to pay for a 150 dollar Nubian Doe. 
I have been full heartedly researching on what to do with the calf when I get it, I realize they get huge and hard to control, but if you raise em right they are sweethearts. I have never raised one before so obviously I come to someone with experience so I will be fully prepared when the time comes. You have some amazing advice and I thank you very much for providing me with it. I will definitely be back to you when I have questions, because I know I will


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## farmerjan (Dec 26, 2016)

Okay, I am even more respectful of you, and trying to learn and do, what is right.  Obviously, you do know what is right and proper for animal behaviour and I agree that there is just no reason to kick a pig that is struggling.  Pigs can be smart and they can be very stubborn...but again, you cannot reason with an animal and they don't think like people. And they will scream bloody murder when they are being hurt.  There is no reason to abuse them like you said.

You said you are earning money to buy a nubian doe.  So I am assuming that you do know a fair amount about livestock in general.  A calf isn't that big a difference than a kid, just alot bigger, as far as being a baby.  They eat more, don't need to be fed 3-4-5 times a day, but they require the same basics;  clean dry shelter, clean water and being fed regularly.  So I think you will do fine.  And I read between the lines that you know the difference between a spoiled animal and  simple discipline and being mean. So I say go for it.....when you get him/her and get started, do halter train it so that handling will be easier and then you will be able to catch it easier.  Plus should anything happen and it gets sick or hurt it will go a long way to treating and taking care of it easier. 
I think you will do fine; I realize that even though the calf will be "free" it will cost to get it started.  The colostrum is not cheap but it is essential, at least one feeding.  And a 50lb bag of good milk replacer will cost $60 - $75 but you should be able to only feed one bag up to time of weaning.  That is what the normal average is.  Even though the soy based milk replacers are a little cheaper, the calf will not do good on it so make sure you get an all-milk  milk replacer.  And the sooner you can get the calf to start eating a calf starter grain, and nibbling on hay, then you will help it's rumen to develop and you will be able to wean it off the milk sooner.  Since you know some about goats then I think you know the difference between feeding good feed and just giving them plain old feed.  They need the nutrition early so they grow and develop properly and then when they get older they will be able to utilize less concentrated and even less quality in their feed.  Cattle are supposed to graze and they will eat alot that their systems can utilize that might not seem like perfect feed.  Get them grown right and they will return it to you in calves and even milk.   And also, even if they are beef cattle as I think they probably are, yes you can milk them if they are tame enough.  So you might even be able to have a "dual-purpose" cow....


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## Lanthanum (Dec 26, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> Okay, I am even more respectful of you, and trying to learn and do, what is right.  Obviously, you do know what is right and proper for animal behaviour and I agree that there is just no reason to kick a pig that is struggling.  Pigs can be smart and they can be very stubborn...but again, you cannot reason with an animal and they don't think like people. And they will scream bloody murder when they are being hurt.  There is no reason to abuse them like you said.
> 
> You said you are earning money to buy a nubian doe.  So I am assuming that you do know a fair amount about livestock in general.  A calf isn't that big a difference than a kid, just alot bigger, as far as being a baby.  They eat more, don't need to be fed 3-4-5 times a day, but they require the same basics;  clean dry shelter, clean water and being fed regularly.  So I think you will do fine.  And I read between the lines that you know the difference between a spoiled animal and  simple discipline and being mean. So I say go for it.....when you get him/her and get started, do halter train it so that handling will be easier and then you will be able to catch it easier.  Plus should anything happen and it gets sick or hurt it will go a long way to treating and taking care of it easier.
> I think you will do fine; I realize that even though the calf will be "free" it will cost to get it started.  The colostrum is not cheap but it is essential, at least one feeding.  And a 50lb bag of good milk replacer will cost $60 - $75 but you should be able to only feed one bag up to time of weaning.  That is what the normal average is.  Even though the soy based milk replacers are a little cheaper, the calf will not do good on it so make sure you get an all-milk  milk replacer.  And the sooner you can get the calf to start eating a calf starter grain, and nibbling on hay, then you will help it's rumen to develop and you will be able to wean it off the milk sooner.  Since you know some about goats then I think you know the difference between feeding good feed and just giving them plain old feed.  They need the nutrition early so they grow and develop properly and then when they get older they will be able to utilize less concentrated and even less quality in their feed.  Cattle are supposed to graze and they will eat alot that their systems can utilize that might not seem like perfect feed.  Get them grown right and they will return it to you in calves and even milk.   And also, even if they are beef cattle as I think they probably are, yes you can milk them if they are tame enough.  So you might even be able to have a "dual-purpose" cow....


Yes, I've experienced spoiled animals, disciplined animals, and even, sadly, abused animals. 
As for money, it is definitely an issue. 60-75 dollars shouldn't be too bad but it is still really expensive following a lower-middle class South Georgia family. We have enough to get us and my animals by, my mom takes care of me and her and our two dogs/vet bills, and I take care of goat and chicken feed and buying new animals. 
As for the calf, I will definitely spend plenty of time with it, and halter train it and etc. I have raised plenty of dogs and goats and chickens, but never anything such as a cow. I think I get that this won't be the easiest thing I've done, I've been searching for quality and prices of things they have at Tractor Supply, but Taylor Feed hasn't been open due to holidays. All I found at Tractor Supply (I think that's a country wide company) is a small 15 pound bag of multi species milk, which is what I fed my piglets and my baby possum, and it says it can be used for calves but they'd probably drink the whole thing in three days or less. That is the only thing I've found. Everything here seems really expensive, with $8.50 for just a small square bale of hay.

My goats come running to a whistle and don't get messed with by the dogs, so i let them out of their pen to graze through the yard. Will the calf be able to do the same?


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## farmerjan (Dec 26, 2016)

Did a quick check of TSC website and if you put calf milk replacer in the search box you will come up with several types and sizes.  They have several but most all are mixed with soy except their DuMOR Ultra brand.  They have a regular DuMOR brand but it is part soy.  The Ultra runs about $75 for a 50 lb bag which will get you through the calf's milk feeding to 8 weeks.  It is 20% protein and 20% fat.  That is what you want but you would hopefully be able to find it at your feed store for maybe a little bit less.  I know that LandOLakes makes a milk replacer that I used to feed years ago and that Purina made one, there are other brands.  Just make sure it is 20/20 with all milk proteins.  I know it is expensive but...
You said that you have goats and chickens. Do you milk any of the goats?? You can feed goat milk to calves....a friend of mine milks about 10 and uses it almost entirely to raise calves.  Even if you mixed it  you could stretch the milk replacer to last longer...sometimes you can buy a 25 lb bag,  and it won't cost more to buy 2/25lb bags or a 50 lb.
You will need a calf nipple bottle or a bucket with a nipple to feed the calf with.  But that will last forever once you get one and they aren't too expensive.  
Do you ever go to farm auctions?  Sometimes you can pick up some of that sort of stuff used for not too much.  If you were to find a calf bottle, I would just buy the nipple new so that you don't have to worry about any diseases.  The bottles can be sanitized with a little bleach water.
As far as letting the calf graze in the yard...that would be okay as long as it can't "get out loose" ;  they are not always the best at coming to call or to a whistle if they want to be "independent"..( face it they are kids...) But we have tied them out on a long rope attached to a halter, or a neck chain.  If you start them out young then they will be very easy to tie out to graze.  I know that some people will be horrified at the idea, but it is not the end of the world if you are closeby to keep an eye on them.  We used to tie out the milk cow so that she could eat the grass and I didn't have to waste it by mowing.  Be aware also that a calf/cow halter is different than a horse halter. 

Can't help you on the hay much.  Maybe there are some other members on here that are close that you could get together with to buy some?  How about the people that you are planning to buy the nubian from?  Sometimes you can get together and buy a little cheaper in quantity so it benefits everyone.  Are there any farms around where you can go buy the hay directly out of the field when they are baling it?  Most farmers will charge less if you can buy it out of the field so they don't have to handle it twice by putting it in the barn then selling it later.  Maybe find a farmer that you can work for in exchange for hay?   $8.50 a bale is high although if you were in the drought area then it was hard to come by.  We get about $4.00 bale out of the field and $5.00 and up if we deliver here in VA.  That is for orchard grass and I don't know what is the common hay types down there.  
What about your aunt and uncle?  Do they make hay on their property?

The biggest problem with a calf is they are going to eat ALOT in comparison to a goat.  A full grown cow will eat approx 50 lbs of hay a day not counting some grazing. We make mostly large round bales of hay. 5 x 5 feet that weigh 1000 lbs or more.  1 bale will feed 20 cows for 1 day  so that's 50 lbs per cow per day.   So if the square bales weigh 40-50 lbs you are going to feed at least 1 bale per day if there is not alot of grazing.  They won't eat that much at first of course, but a growing calf will eat alot until it gets grown to it's full size and age and that's between 2 and 4 years old.  And while growing they will need some grain if there isn't good grazing to supply some of the needed nutrients.


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## Lanthanum (Dec 27, 2016)

I found some calf bottles at Tractor Supply and it won't be too hard to go there and buy one of those. We don't have any farm auctions or flea markets any closer than Jacksonville and that is about two hours away. Not worth the drive, because everyone in Florida way overprices their stuff from my experience. However, there is a Farmers Market on the way to my mom's work, but I assume they only sell plants and products from their farms.
As for hay, my Uncle lives on an over 100 acre farm and grows cotton and ,yes, hay. He has plenty of large round bales and perhaps he could give me one. That would last one cow a while right? And maybe even provide my goats with some. I haven't seen anyone on this site so far that is even within a 300 mile radius of my town. And not many people here are farmers either, most just have a few pigs/donkeys/or horses. And all of them that I've met are really hateful people who don't wanna bother with a kid who doesn't know what she's doing. (Story of my life..)
Being in Georgia, there is a lot of swamp land and woods. My pygmies love the woods because there are tons of briars and pine needles and oak leaves that they LOVE to eat. They wander in the yard and nip the grass tops from there, and then they wander in the clear parts of the woods to eat blackberry brambles and a variety of other plants. First of all, is this safe for them? There are plenty of Water Moccasins and Timber Rattlers but not once in three years has anyone been bitten.  
And second of all, will this be safe for the cow? I plan on housing them together or beside each other if there will be problems, but being housed together will only be temporary. The goat pen currently is made of hog panel fencing and is made entirely of dirt, since my donkey, being a grazer, ate all the roots of the grass my browser goats had eaten the tops of so no grass remains in their pen, but they are let out of the pen every other day. Will the cow be able to stay in the same pen as them for a while until the new barn is finished? We have to wait until tax time in Febuary to start fixing up an old barn on our property that my mom has been using as a tool shed, and it should be cleaned up and animal ready around May-June. My billy is really aggressive towards other animals, he will headbutt anything that stands in his way, except me, and he terrorizes the heck out of my other billy. Only beings in the world he's friendly to are his does in heat. Will it be safe to house them temporarily together while it is a calf? Or will one hurt the other. Even as a calf, the calves that were born last year around July are still I'd say about 10 times bigger than the pygmies. My pygmies stand below my knee, and babies you can hold in one hand, and will fit entirely in two hands.


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## farmerjan (Dec 27, 2016)

Okay, you already have a plan.  First off, a roll of hay will last a long time, the goats will also eat it and it would be great.  If he can bring you one, try to put it on a pallet; most places here give them away to get rid of them.  It will keep it up off the ground so there will be less waste.  And free pallets make great "fences" when tied or wired together... Not knowing how big the rolls are, (4x4 will have 600-800 lbs) it should last the calf for months...even with the goats eating some of it.  When the calf gets bigger, like a year old, it will last a month or more probably....and that will depend on whether you can get it out to graze some also.  They definitely will eat more in the colder weather.  It should save you money compared to the cost of the small square bales.  You will have some waste but you can use that as bedding if it isn't wet .  If you can cover it with a small tarp on top then you will waste less. But the calf and the goats will have fun pulling it off so maybe you might not try to cover it.

I'm not a big goat person, but do some farm sitting for some friends when they go away so have a little experience with them.  What kind of goat is your billy or how big is he?   Is he a pygmy?  I would say that the calf will be big enough to intimidate the goat, and I see no reason why they can't share the pen if it is big enough that they can get away from each other.  You will just have to watch and see.  But if you are planning on the calf having his own place, then some temp "bunking in together" should work.  Depends on your billy.  You will just have to try it.

Nothing you listed that the goats like to nibble on should cause any problem for the calf but cattle are grazers, not really browsers, so he probably will not bother much of that stuff unless he is starving.  Most cows are mindful of snakes,and we seldom have problems here with snakebite;  we have some rattlesnakes, but most are non-poisonous like black snakes and such.  There are some copperheads too.  But not anything like you would have in the warmer climate south of here.

On a trip by,  you might want to stop at the farmers market and walk around.  You might meet some people who have animals that are more considerate than the teachers at school seem to be. Or find someone who has raised some bottle babies or just to see what is available.  Never know where you might just run into the right situation....Maybe find a part-time job on a small farm that would help you with feed or hay purchases. Keep your options open...the barter system works good and sometimes you meet someone that will be a friend for life...

The calf bottle from tractor supply is right.  One suggestion, I would get the "lamb or goat" nipple not the calf nipple.  You would be able to use it for lambs or goats if you needed it too but the reason that I say this is that I use that size for my calves.  Yes it is smaller, but most cows teats are not as big as the "calf nipple" and a little smaller nipple will not "drown" the calf if he gets to trying to drink too fast.  It is not a life or death difference, but that's just what I do.  Also, I sometimes have jersey calves to bottle feed and that nipple works better for a smaller calf.  I have used it when we have lambs to feed, after they get a couple of weeks old they get pretty aggressive when drinking and I can put a quart of milk in the bottle and feed a couple of lambs with it and not have to make up several bottles.  Sure, many will say it is not sanitary, but it has worked for me over the years.

Have you any thoughts what you will do with it if it is a bull calf?  Can you allow yourself to raise it and take care of it then put it in the freezer to eat it,  or sell it?  You cannot afford to keep it for a pet if it is a bull calf.  Oh, one thing, if it is a bull calf, you need to get it "banded" as a baby or castrated when it is a little older.  Bulls are not for backyard pets and they will get  acting "bullish" when they start to get mature.  A steer will be much more handleable and better dispositioned.  Banding it as a baby is fairly easy and quick and will be better all the way around.  If it is a heifer, then you will have a very small beginning of a possible herd of cows down the road...


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## Lanthanum (Dec 28, 2016)

farmerjan said:


> Okay, you already have a plan.  First off, a roll of hay will last a long time, the goats will also eat it and it would be great.  If he can bring you one, try to put it on a pallet; most places here give them away to get rid of them.  It will keep it up off the ground so there will be less waste.  And free pallets make great "fences" when tied or wired together... Not knowing how big the rolls are, (4x4 will have 600-800 lbs) it should last the calf for months...even with the goats eating some of it.  When the calf gets bigger, like a year old, it will last a month or more probably....and that will depend on whether you can get it out to graze some also.  They definitely will eat more in the colder weather.  It should save you money compared to the cost of the small square bales.  You will have some waste but you can use that as bedding if it isn't wet .  If you can cover it with a small tarp on top then you will waste less. But the calf and the goats will have fun pulling it off so maybe you might not try to cover it.
> 
> I'm not a big goat person, but do some farm sitting for some friends when they go away so have a little experience with them.  What kind of goat is your billy or how big is he?   Is he a pygmy?  I would say that the calf will be big enough to intimidate the goat, and I see no reason why they can't share the pen if it is big enough that they can get away from each other.  You will just have to watch and see.  But if you are planning on the calf having his own place, then some temp "bunking in together" should work.  Depends on your billy.  You will just have to try it.
> 
> ...


I am working on finding a big roll of hay, but I don't know anyone close that actually owns a farm. Most people choose a single animal and raise it, like they will have 30 or so goats in their yard or three- horses. They don't really need help around the farm. I'll keep checking though. 

My billy is the biggest of the four goats, but he is still small. He stands 21 inches at the shoulder. He's the biggest out of them all and his horns pack a good punch too, he's the one on the farthest right in my profile picture. Obviously yes he is a pygmy. 

When I was feeding the piglets and had to feed my girl Scout when her mamma didn't let her eat right away, I used a regular baby bottle so I'll have to buy a whole new bottle and nipple. The possum I fed had to be fed from a pipette, so nothing bigger than a baby bottle have I ever used. 

Of course, if it is a bull, I'll get him castrated. I cannot have a bull running around my yard. My mom tells me that if I get a bull then she wants me to use it for meat, but she can't even eat the eggs my chickens produce because she doesn't appreciate eating the babies of the things in her backyard. I did however butcher five of my seven chickens once, I asked for seven rhode island pullets, and they gave me a straight run with four Rhode Island roosters, a yellow buff rooster, a yellow buff hen, and a game hen. I couldn't have all those roosters running around so I had to butcher four of the five. And one of my hens died so I was left with one rooster and one hen. I raised them from tiny chicks and was able to butcher em, wasn't too happy about it but I was able to. So if I raise a bull I will probably end up having to butcher him, but if there's something else productive I can get out of him then I will. What can I get out of a bull?


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## cjc (Dec 28, 2016)

Looks like you have already got a lot of advice but I had a cow that was the same way. She calved her first year and the calf died of now what I think was a mixture of starvation and navel ill. I thought it was a one time thing so she calved again for us last season and we realized quickly her calf was starving. We pulled the calf and I raised it. I pulled it at 4 days old and by that point joint ill was already starting. So, definitely pull this calf right away. If she is really friendly I would put her in a head gate/squeeze a few times a day for the first 4 days and get the calf to suckle that way. I would also start a bottle at that point. If that's not an option a lot of dairies will sell you or even give you some frozen colostrum if you tell them the situation. I got bucket loads when our neighboring dairies found out about my sick baby.

Raising an orphan bottle calf is a great hobby. You will bond with this baby huge. It is just a lot of work for the first few months and they really don't like being raised on their own. They like other calves in their company. The calf I told you about is very dear to my heart and is our pet now on the farm. Although he was sick he turned out to be a great steer for us to have around.

But like @farmerjan mentioned. They need to stop breeding this cow. I don't care how friendly it is it has no business having more calves if they are dying off like this.

Good luck!


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## Lanthanum (Dec 28, 2016)

cjc said:


> Looks like you have already got a lot of advice but I had a cow that was the same way. She calved her first year and the calf died of now what I think was a mixture of starvation and navel ill. I thought it was a one time thing so she calved again for us last season and we realized quickly her calf was starving. We pulled the calf and I raised it. I pulled it at 4 days old and by that point joint ill was already starting. So, definitely pull this calf right away. If she is really friendly I would put her in a head gate/squeeze a few times a day for the first 4 days and get the calf to suckle that way. I would also start a bottle at that point. If that's not an option a lot of dairies will sell you or even give you some frozen colostrum if you tell them the situation. I got bucket loads when our neighboring dairies found out about my sick baby.
> 
> Raising an orphan bottle calf is a great hobby. You will bond with this baby huge. It is just a lot of work for the first few months and they really don't like being raised on their own. They like other calves in their company. The calf I told you about is very dear to my heart and is our pet now on the farm. Although he was sick he turned out to be a great steer for us to have around.
> 
> ...


They don't seperate any of their cows or purposely breed them. They spend more time with their crops and family than the cows, the cows are practically nonexistent to them. They grow their own hay so they barely spend a penny on those cows, so they have no reason to care for them for their worth because they don't spend money on them. 

There are no dairy farms around me, the place I live is getting more industrialized (by that I mean most people drive to jobs in nearby cities instead of farming their land for money) I have never bottle raised a baby but I have been around people who bottle raised a deer from a fawn and it was the sweetest deer I've ever met, eveb though white tails are generally very cautious. I am quite excited to be able to raise a bottle baby on my own. I hope for the best, however I am prepared for the worst.


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## cjc (Dec 28, 2016)

Well there are a few things you need to raise a bottle calf. Bottles, milk replacer, powdered colostrum if that's your only option, electrolytes just in case, pneumonia nasal spray, vitamin A&D and selenium injection. That is what I have on hand for when I first get a baby. But bottle calves are much better when they are raised in 2's or with other cows. If I were you I would try and get my hands on 2.


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