# Raising the right milking goat breed for my land?



## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

I live in an area in the USA that the climate has cold fall and winters, warm spring and hot summers. I would like to know how to make the most of my 1 acre. I would like to have chickens(I'm thinking of going with the Plymouth Rock breed maybe about 5 hens, telling you to take this into account only). I also am thinking of getting a Goat Doe for milking, (was considering a Kinder, but those are rare since it's a new breed, so maybe making that breed myself with crossing of Nubian Doe and the Pygmy buck) not totally decided on the breed right now, so open to suggestions. I would want a goat that produces enough milk for about 3 gallon a week, won't over graze my 1 acre, and is cold winter hardy. Right now I'm only looking fo 1 goat for milk production and cold heartiness, but I might in the future consider having a small flock (like 2 or 3 maybe) for meat production occasionally for my family. Any tips on cost effective and still nutritional feed for the goat would be great as well. Advice on goat pens based on your experiences welcome as well. I also will have a garden with some fruit and vegetables so that has to be taken into account too.


   I kindly thank you for your time, happy holidays and I know noobs to farming like me probably are annoying to you all lol. Please no attacks saying what I want is "NOT" a hobby because we all know 5 hens and 1 goat is nowhere near me wanting to run something commercial for profit or anything like that. I just want to have some organic food and milk for my family added into our diet (1 of my daughters has food allergies to cow's milk and soy so goat's milk might be a great alternative for her, plus I would rather know what is going into our food instead of store bought and having to search the label to find out why my daughter is having an allergic reaction). I was attacked on another site (only 1 person answered, but they were rude to say the least ) for asking this same question basically (didn't ask about the meat aspect of the goats, but might as well ask that too in case I "MAYBE" decide to do that as well) regarding wanting to have a goat and a few chicken on 1 acre. If you think my 1 acre is not enough just tell me nicely how I may compensate whether more feed, different breeds, or smaller amount etc. There is a difference between constructive criticism and personally attacking someone. 


ETA:

 PS

     Nearby where I live there's a crazy chicken guy who has probably 2 dozen standard size hens at least, plus a rooster on what appears to be less than 1/2 an acre which is way too crowded for his land (telling story of this guy so ou know where I'm coming from on what I want and don't want). So, yes I don't want to be like that guy with the over crowding, but I do want to have enough to add it into my family's diet. So I am open to suggestions on the size of my land reflecting enough size for my flock and herd to be comfortable on.


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 19, 2011)

Nigerians are nice !!!


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## Sunny & the 5 egg layers (Dec 19, 2011)

I am sorry to hear what happened on the other site. You shouldnt have to worry about that here. BYH has some pretty good friendly people. 

Since you only live on an acre (I do too by the way), you may want to go with a smaller goat breed such as the Nigerian Dwarf. They do not eat as much as the bigger breeds but still produce lots of milk and lots of kids. I believe they can produce up to 2 quarts a day (depending on milking lines ect.) Also, I do not suggest you only having one goat. They need another companion and I think 2 would be a good idea that way you can alternate between the two and you will always have a constant supply of milk. 

On the chickens: Plymouth Rocks are good. They will give you brown eggs and are known to be pretty good layers. BYH also has a sister site called www.Backyardchickens.com there are lots of chicken folks on there if you want tons of chicken information. 
Good Luck!


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## fortheloveofgoats (Dec 19, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the people being mean to you. Here everyone is nice, and love to help. Just to let you know, you won't be able to just get one. You will need at least two. Goats are social animals and they need a friend. Nigerians are great, La Manchas, Alpines, Oberhaslis, Toggenburgs, and Saanens. With you just wanting a little, I would go with Nigerians though.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

SmallFarmGirl said:
			
		

> Nigerians are nice !!!


Tell me more about how they would suit my needs, climate and land size? If it helps any I would love a kid friendly goat (pun intended lol). I have 3 daughters (age 7yrs, 2 1/2yrs & 1yrs), plus 1 baby on the way (don't know the gender yet still really early) so  I know they (my 7yr old only would be helping my husband and I handle the goats for now obviously) will enjoy helping with the goats.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 19, 2011)

I also have one acre, and have 2 goats, 3 sheep, ~30 chickens, and 2 rabbits.  I also have seasonal turkeys and broilers.  With proper planning you can have a lot on one acre.  I make sure to rotate grazing areas, and I have a sacrifice lot to save the pasture in the winter or muddy times.  

I have Oberhaslis and love them. I don't know if I'd ever raise another dairy breed. They're not the largest of breeds, but they're still standard sized goats which means they give plenty of milk (my doe gives easily a gallon a day at peak production) and they have nice big teats for easy hand milking.  Oberhaslis are known for being quiet and calm, and mine definitely are (but are still fun, like goats).  Other breeds tend to be mouthy (like Nubians are known for being).  I don't think you could get sweeter goats than Oberhaslis.  They handle the cold just fine.  I know lots of people like NIgerians, but IMO standard goats don't eat that much more or take up that much more space, and they give lots more milk.  Plus, I HATE bending over all the time with little animals.  

You'll definitely need to get 2 goats at least, since they're so social. One lone goat would be miserable.  I would recommend getting 2 does, so you can stagger their breeding if you wanted and get more milk year round.  You could also get a wether (castrated male) but IMO I would rather get a productive animal, not just a hay burner.  


And I don't really think 2 dozen hens on 1/2 acre is too much. I know a guy who raises 150 hens and they range on 3 acres and that's more than enough space!


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

Thank you all. Nice to have someone not criticize me for having only 1 acre. I made the mistake of asking this question on Yahoo Answers and the people on there can be quite rude or uneducated on the advice they give at times. Anyways, I could've bought a farm house with 8 acres instead of this house, but I wanted to have nice house to raise my children in that wouldn't need tons of TLC lol. I wouldn't mind having more than 1 goat as so long as they are comfortable on the 1 acre. We live in a nice rural area and I would like to go as organic as possible for my kids health especially my 1 yr old with the cow milk and soy allergies. Goat's milk can be my way for her to still have dairy without having allergic reactions. It was bad enough simply feeding her baby food and then learning it contained milk afterwards reading the fine print and having her break out in hives, constpating and vomiting.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 19, 2011)

Hobby farmer,  where do you live,  specifically?  As in the state...   There are lots of breeds and mixed breeds and you don't have to breed because there are TONS of heinza's out there that will fit the bill nicely.  

All of us will tell you to get two goats and that is the truth.  But two smaller goats will do just fine on one acre with a couple chickens.  HOWEVER, you can buy ONE pregnant goat and before long you will have more than one goat.  And with little ones (referring to your children), that might not be a bad idea.  The kids will have a great time helping you raise and train them.  

I personally wouldn't go with mini's as they can be really, really small.   Keep in mind, though mini-La Manchas can vary in size from very small to pretty darned big.   Dwarf nigerians are a great little breed as are the pygmy's.  Kinders are also pretty Great but I don't know much about them so others can jump in here.   Really goats come in a variety of sizes.  Alpines, nubians and saanens would be much bigger than you want based on what you are saying is your goal so I would not go looking in that direction but a cross breed might be the way to go with those characteristics.   

Meat goats don't give as much milk but meat/dairy cross breeds do just fine.  

All goats are sweet and wonderful, but they all have different personality types.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> I also have one acre, and have 2 goats, 3 sheep, ~30 chickens, and 2 rabbits.  I also have seasonal turkeys and broilers.  With proper planning you can have a lot on one acre.  I make sure to rotate grazing areas, and I have a sacrifice lot to save the pasture in the winter or muddy times.
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> I have Oberhaslis and love them. I don't know if I'd ever raise another dairy breed. They're not the largest of breeds, but they're still standard sized goats which means they give plenty of milk (my doe gives easily a gallon a day at peak production) and they have nice big teats for easy hand milking.  Oberhaslis are known for being quiet and calm, and mine definitely are (but are still fun, like goats).  Other breeds tend to be mouthy (like Nubians are known for being).  I don't think you could get sweeter goats than Oberhaslis.  They handle the cold just fine.  I know lots of people like NIgerians, but IMO standard goats don't eat that much more or take up that much more space, and they give lots more milk.  Plus, I HATE bending over all the time with little animals.
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Ok awesome to know. I just know that I was attacked on YA! site because I dared to ask about have 1 single goat and 5 chickens on 1 acre so I thought perhaps I was being unrealistic wanting what I did lol. Now, I don't feel so bad anymore. Now I won't feel super guility if I want to raise a few goat kids too. That's great you are able to have so many livestock comfortably situated on 1 acre! Def will have to take pointers from you!


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

Queen Mum said:
			
		

> Hobby farmer,  where do you live,  specifically?  As in the state...   There are lots of breeds and mixed breeds and you don't have to breed because there are TONS of heinza's out there that will fit the bill nicely.
> 
> All of us will tell you to get two goats and that is the truth.  But two smaller goats will do just fine on one acre with a couple chickens.  HOWEVER, you can buy ONE pregnant goat and before long you will have more than one goat.  And with little ones (referring to your children), that might not be a bad idea.  The kids will have a great time helping you raise and train them.
> 
> ...


I live in upstate NY. Sorry for not disclosing that earlier was being super cautious being it's the Internet lol.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 19, 2011)

I love Oberhauslies.   Oh wait, I love Nubians, and Alpines and Nigerians,  and, and,  wait,  I just love goats...  but Obers are very, very sweet, you are right about that.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 19, 2011)

hobbyfarmer said:
			
		

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Actually, my friend with 150 hens only has them ranging on about an acre.  The other 2 are being cropped. Oops.

Having more animals on a small space definitely means you'll be feeding more hay, and you need to work out a plan for when it's muddy/no pasture/etc.  That's where you'll need a sacrifice lot.    It's not hard though. I'd love more land, but until we can afford it we're happy with our acre.


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## SmallFarmGirl (Dec 19, 2011)

SmallFarmGirl said:
			
		

> Nigerians are nice !!!


I've got 1 acre and LOVE MY NIGERIANS !!!


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## KellyHM (Dec 19, 2011)

I would go with Nigerians.  They're small, easy keepers, and produce a lot of milk for their size.  

That being said, I think you should at least consider having 2.  Otherwise you will have a VERY unhappy goat.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

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Yeah, I would've loved buying that 8 acre farm home, but it was way too much fixer upper than I'd like. We have a nice large house (2,652 sq ft, 5bd 2 bh,plus our unfinished basement,screened in porch and attached 1 1/2 car garage and a small old shed)so having 1 acre was a good sacrifice on the land. I wouldn't want a mess in my house, but I'm wondering if I can use some of the unused living space to store some stuff (like extra feed etc)?  Right now our shed is being used for firewood storage, and the lawn mower, but perhaps I can do something more with it in the spring? I'm all about being space efficient and still feeling like we have lots of comfortable space for both animals and children. I'm not sure how much this matters, but I own a 1yr old indoor female Bengal cat (the cat NOT the tiger so many ppl assume the opposite when they hear "Bengal" lol) and a 6 month old German Shepard Dog both indoor and outdoor(we let spend about 1 hour playing and running outside in our yard to get some exercise in addition to her 20 min walks to do her business). This is probably a silly question, but are there any dog breeds that are good with goats and or herding them lol? I know herding is more of a sheep thing, but I've been considering adding a Shetland Sheep dog into our family to be our small working/family dog. Right now the German Shepard is our soon to be guard dog (she just barks at strangers that run by or walk by our house), but mainly family dog. 

       I assume the "sacrifice lot" are the goats used for meat to help with overcrowding correct? 

   Sorry for so many questions I'm new to this, wanting to start this hobby farm up this upcoming spring and I have read some stuff online, but nothing is the same as having people with personal experience give advice on this all because not everything is black and white when it comes to farming lol.


ETA: fixed typos I missed.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 19, 2011)

That's so funny because when DH and I were looking to buy we also looked at an 8 acre parcel with a house that needed to be pretty much gutted and rebuilt.  We also passed up for a newly renovated charming little house, and we're happy we did.


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## Sunny & the 5 egg layers (Dec 19, 2011)

Since Nigerians are small when compared to other dairy breeds, they should be the perfect goat for you and your children to handle. As far as a herding dog, there are many breeds out there. Just keep in mind that in addition to herding your goats they may also want to try and herd your kids too.  I have had a Sheltie before and she was a very good dog. She was perfect off leash, perfect with strangers ect. But can be nippy as with any herding dog. Currently I have a border collie mix. She is perfect with the chickens (after some training) and is good off leash as well, she is my little farm dog even if we dont live on a farm. She also does dog carting and helps to bring firewood up to the house. 
Good Luck!


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 19, 2011)

But how much milk do Nigerians typically give?  Will one doe give 3 gallons a week?  I'm still a fan of the standard goats.  

And about the herding dog...I personally wouldnt' own a herding dog like a Sheltie or Border Collie unless I actually planned to work them.  They're busy, intelligent dogs and need lots of work to do.  With just a couple animals on 1 acre, I don't think that would be enough to keep them busy.  Just my $.02.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> That's so funny because when DH and I were looking to buy we also looked at an 8 acre parcel with a house that needed to be pretty much gutted and rebuilt.  We also passed up for a newly renovated charming little house, and we're happy we did.


Wow, that is funny! I think we both made the right decision house wise lol.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

Sunny & the 5 egg layers said:
			
		

> Since Nigerians are small when compared to other dairy breeds, they should be the perfect goat for you and your children to handle. As far as a herding dog, there are many breeds out there. Just keep in mind that in addition to herding your goats they may also want to try and herd your kids too.  I have had a Sheltie before and she was a very good dog. She was perfect off leash, perfect with strangers ect. But can be nippy as with any herding dog. Currently I have a border collie mix. She is perfect with the chickens (after some training) and is good off leash as well, she is my little farm dog even if we dont live on a farm. She also does dog carting and helps to bring firewood up to the house.
> Good Luck!


Thanks for the suggestion. I see others have suggested the Nigerians, so I'll have to read up on that breed. I like the small goat breed idea, but like "aggieterpkatie" I'm not wanting to be bending over too much and teat size is important and how much milk a week can they produce.  I'm looking for 3 gallons a week for both drinking an cheese making purposes. I was considering the Kinder breed because it's a medium size goat. It is the Nubian Doe and the Pygmy Buck mixed to give both good milk production, meat and smaller size than a standard. Problem with those is there are no breeders near me to include neighboring states (the breeder in PA isn't selling any does for 2012) and my DH isn't really keen on the idea of us having to try to make the 1st generation Kinder ourselves our 1st time around at owning goats. after reading about the new Kinder breed it was almost disappointing to feed what seemed almost perfect, but isn't a popular breed. http://www.kindergoats.org/ Is a great site on them. 

     Thanks for telling me your herding dog experiences with both breeds of Sheltie & Border Collie. My German Shepard would probably be a lousy goat herder right? I say that because you never hear about the dog breed herding sheep only working in law enforcement and guarding families. I also would like to give my current dog a companion as well eventually. After hearing every one's comments about goats being social animals I think I will go with 2 goats maybe even if the 2ND goat is just the Doe's kid in the beginning. Maybe I'll even go with a small herd if it's not too much to handle.


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## Stacykins (Dec 19, 2011)

Nigerians seem to do just dandy in the cold temperatures. They get a nice, thick, fluffy coat of ultra soft fur. I don't have mine yet, but I have spent time with them at a local breeder who has purebred nigerians. They were so fluffeh! I had to resist the urge to smoosh my face in my fur of the goat I bought, ahaha (she is getting bred there so she is still with the breeder).


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## SheepGirl (Dec 19, 2011)

hobbyfarmer said:
			
		

> I assume the "sacrifice lot" are the goats used for meat to help with overcrowding correct?




It means it's like a dry lot, so they have a place to go while the grass is recovering. When they're in the sacrifice lot, you will need to feed hay.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> But how much milk do Nigerians typically give?  Will one doe give 3 gallons a week?  I'm still a fan of the standard goats.
> 
> And about the herding dog...I personally wouldnt' own a herding dog like a Sheltie or Border Collie unless I actually planned to work them.  They're busy, intelligent dogs and need lots of work to do.  With just a couple animals on 1 acre, I don't think that would be enough to keep them busy.  Just my $.02.


I'm also wondering the same thing on the milk production rate. 3 gallons a week will give us plenty of milk and maybe some cheese too. Even more than 3 gallons would be nice so I can make some more home made cheese and yogurt too. We have to get our 1yr old tested to find out just how lactose intolerant she is now that she's 1yr old. Weird thing is she's been able to tolerate milk based formula finally ( she's been on a hypoallergenic formula since a newborn) when she turned 9 months old, but cheese and whole milk added to her formula has made her vomit & be very constipated....sooo sorry for the TMI. So, I'm really thinking the Ped will say Goats milk should be a good substitute. She's been allergic to soy from newborn to current though so I don't see her having soy milk. I know they make a special lactose free non soy milk supposedly, but I think goats milk will me much more nutritionally balanced than some artificial milk. The reason this matters so much is if the Ped agrees after allergy testing DH will get the goats this spring he says instead of next spring. Right now we've agreed definitely going to be doing the chickens at least this spring. 

  As for the herding dog it was just an idea to help if I end up doing 3+ goats. I must admit you have me inspired that I maybe be able to have some surplus livestock for meat purposes (should I find myself with some) as well as switching out the does more often through milking cycles. How do you have your pens and gates set up right now to fit the 1 acre and what's your best strategy to get the goats to rotate on which areas they graze? I know I will have to feed them hay and other feed as well, but I would like them to take advantage during the warm and hot seasons the vegetation that is around them when possible. I want to fence in most of my back yard so the chickens and the goats don't escape to be run over or predators get in and eat them. I was wondering what kind you use? There's a few diffrent types out there I know, but I want something that's both goat & chicken friendly. The chicken coop I will have will have a run, plenty of roosts and some nesting areas of course. I'll be letting the chickens out to free ranging for a few hours or so everyday keeping the door open for the cop so they can go back in when they want and then have them in the coop for the night and inclement weather conditions. I will have the run enclosed so that during the times they can't be ranging freely they still get their exercise. With the goats how big do you have your pen per goat? I'm sure it goes by so many sq ft per goat I assume. I want the pen to be big enough it's comfortable for them when it's snowing and not much on the ground to eat (of course will be feeding them feed and hay etc). I will still let them out for a little bit if it doesn't bother them too much when snow is on the ground, but I assume there will be plenty of times they will prefer the pen with a roof on top.

   Sorry to get off on a tangent on the chickens when this a goat forum, but seeing you own some too you can probably understand I have to make sure they coexist with each other on my land peacefully. 



      I know this addressed to aggieterpkatie, but anyone who has advice or answers to my questions may answer as well lol.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

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Oh that makes way more sense now lol! That was a confusing term to a noob like me lol. I thought she was referring to if you end up with surplus goats that they become meat goats or something lol. Thanks for clarifying that lol.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 19, 2011)

Stacykins said:
			
		

> Nigerians seem to do just dandy in the cold temperatures. They get a nice, thick, fluffy coat of ultra soft fur. I don't have mine yet, but I have spent time with them at a local breeder who has purebred nigerians. They were so fluffeh! I had to resist the urge to smoosh my face in my fur of the goat I bought, ahaha (she is getting bred there so she is still with the breeder).


Awww... how cute  ! They sound nice. How are they milk supply wise? How many gallons of milk do the make a week?


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 20, 2011)

hobbyfarmer said:
			
		

> How do you have your pens and gates set up right now to fit the 1 acre and what's your best strategy to get the goats to rotate on which areas they graze? I know I will have to feed them hay and other feed as well, but I would like them to take advantage during the warm and hot seasons the vegetation that is around them when possible. I want to fence in most of my back yard so the chickens and the goats don't escape to be run over or predators get in and eat them. I was wondering what kind you use? There's a few diffrent types out there I know, but I want something that's both goat & chicken friendly. The chicken coop I will have will have a run, plenty of roosts and some nesting areas of course. I'll be letting the chickens out to free ranging for a few hours or so everyday keeping the door open for the cop so they can go back in when they want and then have them in the coop for the night and inclement weather conditions. I will have the run enclosed so that during the times they can't be ranging freely they still get their exercise. With the goats how big do you have your pen per goat? I'm sure it goes by so many sq ft per goat I assume. I want the pen to be big enough it's comfortable for them when it's snowing and not much on the ground to eat (of course will be feeding them feed and hay etc). I will still let them out for a little bit if it doesn't bother them too much when snow is on the ground, but I assume there will be plenty of times they will prefer the pen with a roof on top.


I PMed you with some info, but I'll elaborate a little.  Our whole property is 1 acre, and our permanent animal fence encloses about 1/3 of an acre.  Our house, the yard, the gardens, and barn takes up the rest.  The chicken yard makes up 1 corner of the animal area, and the chickens free-range.  I used a combination of field fence (with larger holes) and chain link (it was free) to make the animal fence, and unfortunately the field fence doesn't keep the chickens in.  I will be going back this year and re-doing the chicken yard with 4' or 5' 2X4 wire mesh fence so I can close the chickens in their smaller yard if I need to.  For the sheep/goat fence, I run a single strand of electric on the inside of their fence, so they don't climb or lean on it.  It really helps extend the fence life, IMO. If I didn't do electric, I'd want to run a wooden rail at the top of the fence and attach the wire fence to it so it doesn't sag.  

I also have electric netting (from Premier) that I use to have the sheep graze in the yard in areas that are outside of their permanent fence.  It works really well, and I can almost double my grazing area that way.  I also use the netting to fence off sections of their permanent pasture, because if not they'll over graze some areas and undergraze others.  I can section the permanent pasture off into 3 or 4 sections and graze one at a time.  

Hope that helps! Let me know if I forgot to answer something.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

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Thanks for the info so far! I'll be asking you more questions as I think of them. I PM'd you my property survey thing. I basically tried taken pics of it & only manged to get 3 somewhat decent pics via my cell to an online album thing. Please take in mind I don't have an aboveground pool like it shows that was removed way before I bought my house. Let me know if you can view it. How'd you make that satellite pic of your property? I want to do the same thing so I can post it here w/o it being so revealing of my info. I'm going to see if I can't crop out my nearby roads on the pics somehow & post them here too, to see if you or others have advice on how to make the most out of how my acre is layed out.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 20, 2011)

hobbyfarmer said:
			
		

> Thanks for the info so far! I'll be asking you more questions as I think of them. I PM'd you my property survey thing. I basically tried taken pics of it & only manged to get 3 somewhat decent pics via my cell to an online album thing. Please take in mind I don't have an aboveground pool like it shows that was removed way before I bought my house. Let me know if you can view it. How'd you make that satellite pic of your property? I want to do the same thing so I can post it here w/o it being so revealing of my info. I'm going to see if I can't crop out my nearby roads on the pics somehow & post them here too, to see if you or others have advice on how to make the most out of how my acre is layed out.


I have access to a GIS (geospatial imaging) at work, but you should be able to do it through Google maps or something like that.  Search your address on google maps, and see how close you can zoom in.  Then you can save the pic and open it in Paint and draw things in it.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

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Ok I'll have to try that. Here's my attempted at croping a cruddy cell phone pic of my acre property survey, remember there's NO aboveground pool even though it says it on it. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/72483191@N02/6543801345/in/photostream

 I hope I did this right.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

aggieterpkatie: I PM'd you most of this (but maybe someone else might have an opinion too):

I have some old crude fencing around part of the property, but not all. It's like wire fencing that's 1/2 fell over in the wooded back areas of my property also the shed has a small wood fence on it, but it's not a complete fence just like a foot or 2 if that. I think I want to fence the whole thing, but not sure. I also want to eventually put in an above ground pool and a playground (swing & slide)for the kids. 

  (This part wasn't in my PM to you, but I'm wondering about this) Anyways based on my layout of my acre how would you do the fencing line? Too the edge of the whole property to include this side front yard(behind the shed)? Obviously the little patch of grass in front/by my driveway isn't going to be used for more than maybe some seasonal flowers.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 20, 2011)

What is behind and to the sides of your property?  I would maybe think of doing the whole back half in fencing.  Of course, if I could, I'd have every square foot of our property fenced, but DH says the kids need a play area.       It's really up to you. I'd fence up to the property line though, that way you don't waste any space.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

Oh and I think hubby and I are thinking of getting a Anglo-Nubians or comonly known as Nubians or the Nigerian Dwarfs everyone kept recommending. It looks like there "might" be a breeder of Nigerian Dwarf in my town from what I've read online, but they have no website so idk if they are still in business, but if they are that will be very convenient. As far as the Nubians the closest to me seems to be 1hr & 15 mins one way. How cold weather hardy are the Nubians? Since the Nubians are a dual purpose goat that really is great to in terms of being able to possibly use them for meat too. My hubby likes the Boers as far as meat goats go, but I couldn't justify having a goat that's not a good milk producer when the majority of what I want goats for is the milk. Alpine goats  is another idea as far as colder hearty I mean just look at their names and the fact they originated in the Alps. If I'm going to have standard size dairy goat though I'd still like the option of it to be a meat goat as well so dual purpose would be good. If it's only a dairy goat then a small, but not too tiny (I don't want to struggle milking small teats) good milk producing goat like the Nigerian everyone has been mentioning. I'm not sure if I want to keep diffrent breeds because if the opposite breeds do breed won't I have problems selling some of the kids? I won't be keeping too many kids. I know certain crosses are accepted, but not many people will want a mutt kid lol. I must say there is so much more involved I feel in this decision than the chickens were lol. I decided on the Plymouth Rock much easier. Dual purpose, large beautiful brown eggs, cold winter hardy, nice black and white striping on the feathers. I do care about how the goats look too. I also want would prefer a goat that has milk that is good for cheese making so the fat content matters.

   I probably should be posting this all in the breeds section, but I think it helps to have hear from people who have raised these types of goats.


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## Queen Mum (Dec 20, 2011)

I don't think you really need an Alpine.  I have Alpines.  They are a larger breed.  They give quite a bit of milk and if you just want three gallons a week, you are likely to end up with way more than you need.  I would go with a smaller breed.   Nigerians would be good.  Oberhauslies  (which is a type of Alpine) are a little smaller.  They give quite a bit.  Kiko's are a good breed.   Don't get Saanens.  They are VERY big.  

Your best bet is to go look at goats.  Then you will get a feel for what you what.   They come in all sizes.    I have a doe that is 36 inches high at the shoulder and weighs 250 pounds.  She is a big Alpine dairy doe.  She gives a gallon of milk a day.   I have a Nubian/Oberhauslie doe who will be about that big.  Nubians are very big goats.  They would be way too big for your needs.

I have a Mini La-Mancha that is 14 inches tall at the shoulder and weighs about 40 pounds.  She will probably give me about a quart of milk a day when she freshens for the first time.  They would probably be too small for your needs.

On the farm here, we have Nigerian Dwarfs goats who stand about 18 - 20 inches high at the shoulder.  If they were in good condition they would probably give about 1 1/2 to 2 quarts of milk a day when they freshen for the first time.    We also have La Mancha/Boer mixed does who stand 24 inches at the shoulder and would make good meat/dairy does and probably give about 1 - 2 quarts of milk milk a day when they freshen for the first time.  

All of them have great personalities and all of them would work fine on your property.  All of their kids will be cute and cuddly and would sell just fine.  The average price for the kids would be $75.00 - $150.00.  None of them are purebred.  


If you are not looking to show or sell goats for a profit, you don't need purebreds.  You just need healthy, sturdy, friendly goats.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> What is behind and to the sides of your property?  I would maybe think of doing the whole back half in fencing.  Of course, if I could, I'd have every square foot of our property fenced, but DH says the kids need a play area.       It's really up to you. I'd fence up to the property line though, that way you don't waste any space.


There are trees and brush in those back areas of my land. I need to clear out more. Hoping the goats will help clear some out. This year we got rid of some in one area of the back yard and DH sprayed some weed killer (If it was sprayed in August will it have any leftover toxins by the spring?). Will be nice to have the goats eat those darn weeds when we get them. Of course I will be looking up what weeds/plants are toxic to the goats so that we clear those out. Yeah I want the children to have a play area too .I hear ya though because I kinda wish I could have everything fenced in too, but the children need their own area. Yeah even just fencing just the property line in that front/side yard back of the shed on the property line would be good. We already have some on some of the property line markers in the very back of the land (that old falling over wire fencing that's way too small to keep in a goat so def wouldn't be relying on it). I think maybe I'll put the playground behind the shed since that is by the driveway (I'm going for a nice square effect on the fencing and need to leave the kids their area. I do want to put a privacy fence right before the road (the end of the property up to the road on the sides as well as some plants that can be used for privacy). I've heard there's some kind of shrub that can be used for privacy and to keep predators out (something that was historically used?) I might put a few of those in front of the fencing I'll put in because idk if I wanna spend the money to do all privacy fencing around the whole property. I do want to find an inexpensive and un-tacky way to have privacy from neighbors peering in. I'm not 100% on the goat laws here, but I know the law for chickens is 25 per every 3 acres(3 acres is required) and the guy on my road that has 1/2 acre or less has chickens and no one hassles him. I'm allowed to have a cow on 1 acre so I assume a few goats won't be a huge deal. either way though I don't want anyone to be able to easily see driving down the road what I have back there. As well as my children privacy because I plan on building the above-ground pool onto my back deck so I don't want pervs staring at my girls in their bathing suits in the summer. 

   aggieterpkatie, I wish I had you as a neighbor I think we'd have a ton in common lol.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> What is behind and to the sides of your property?  I would maybe think of doing the whole back half in fencing.  Of course, if I could, I'd have every square foot of our property fenced, but DH says the kids need a play area.       It's really up to you. I'd fence up to the property line though, that way you don't waste any space.


Ok lmk if this works! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			






So the PINK= fencing I want to put up for the goats & chickens( possible privacy fencing in the front I wondering if that would be possible, probably not in comb w/the livestock fencing right?), the LIGHT BLUE= a fence door on bot sides (is that possible to put in?). Everything in front of the fencing will be free areas (maybe the right side front outside of the fence will be better suited for the playground I want to install?), the YELLOW= possible privacy fence? (I really don't like that my house has a street that is a main road right in front of it). WHITE= nothing just got some writing off of it and tested the program I used out).


ETA:  I tried to fix the picture to show up and I added this:

 The very back on my backyard has some marshiness to it like the heavy rains will puddle & get muddy. That with the fact I have most of the trees & shrubs back there makes me think I shouldn't put a pen back on that part(maybe after it gets cleared out it will be different?).  Thinking of storing some of the goat feed and hay in the shed? Or maybe somewhere else? I just have firewood in there right now. After I decide what breed of goat that will help me figure out how big I want a shelter pen to be for inclement weather and to go to sleep at night.


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## ragdollcatlady (Dec 20, 2011)

Perhaps a single doe doesn't need to give you 3 gallons of milk if 2 smaller goats (nigerians) will, if you are going to have 2 anyway. I know that if I had very small children, I would be most comfortable with them around smaller goats. Even our nigerians weigh 50-70 lbs but are way stronger than say a 70lb dog. Also if your dog is a German shepherd? did i read that right? they were shepherds...bred originally way back when to help herd, though there isn't a whole lotta herding to need help with on a small plot. Our queenslands do a whole lotta nuthin cause we only hafta escort our nigerians to the back 1/2 acre and back to their house....they run out in the morning to get to the good browse, and back to their house at night cause it gets dark and scary out there at night, and their house has sleeping shelves and dinner waiting. We don't really need the dogs...If your goats are friendly, they will probably walk with you/kids with a collar or even with out one, some of ours are that tame.
Kat


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

hobbyfarmer said:
			
		

> aggieterpkatie said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For some reason the yellow I added is now showing up. Going to try once more:


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## ragdollcatlady (Dec 20, 2011)

P.S. for planting for privacy you might consider pomegranate bushes. They do lose their leaves in the winter so not totally private, but they have some serious thorns and would be very deterrent to anyone climbing through. Also aside from fruit for you, my goats love the fruit and trim the trees for me. In fact, while I was harvesting this year, Bambi, our Nubian, was stealing the pommes I just picked, everytime I turned around to get more off the tree, she pulled the last one out of the bucket! The dogs were dying cause she took my stuff, but I was dying laughing cause it was so funny. How could I be mad a juicyfaced Nub who gave me kisses? She was just testing them all to make sure they tasted good!"yup dem's good!"  
KAT


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

ragdollcatlady said:
			
		

> P.S. for planting for privacy you might consider pomegranate bushes. They do lose their leaves in the winter so not totally private, but they have some serious thorns and would be very deterrent to anyone climbing through. Also aside from fruit for you, my goats love the fruit and trim the trees for me. In fact, while I was harvesting this year, Bambi, our Nubian, was stealing the pommes I just picked, everytime I turned around to get more off the tree, she pulled the last one out of the bucket! The dogs were dying cause she took my stuff, but I was dying laughing cause it was so funny. How could I be mad a juicyfaced Nub who gave me kisses? She was just testing them all to make sure they tasted good!"yup dem's good!"
> KAT


Cool idea! Aww that's a cute & funny story about your goat stealings the pomegranate when you weren't looking lol.


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## hobbyfarmer (Dec 20, 2011)

You all have some good ideas on the goat breeds, I have to think it over & talk it over and get back to you all and compare ideas lol. Anyways DH and I think this might be a better fencing plan: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Remember that PINK= Goat fencing, YELLOW= privacy fence, BLUE= gate door. Btw DH says we can still do the our kids playground even with most of the acre fenced off.


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## autumnprairie (Dec 20, 2011)

hobbyfarmer said:
			
		

> Oh and I think hubby and I are thinking of getting a Anglo-Nubians or comonly known as Nubians or the Nigerian Dwarfs everyone kept recommending. It looks like there "might" be a breeder of Nigerian Dwarf in my town from what I've read online, but they have no website so idk if they are still in business, but if they are that will be very convenient. As far as the Nubians the closest to me seems to be 1hr & 15 mins one way. How cold weather hardy are the Nubians? Since the Nubians are a dual purpose goat that really is great to in terms of being able to possibly use them for meat too. My hubby likes the Boers as far as meat goats go, but I couldn't justify having a goat that's not a good milk producer when the majority of what I want goats for is the milk. Alpine goats  is another idea as far as colder hearty I mean just look at their names and the fact they originated in the Alps. If I'm going to have standard size dairy goat though I'd still like the option of it to be a meat goat as well so dual purpose would be good. If it's only a dairy goat then a small, but not too tiny (I don't want to struggle milking small teats) good milk producing goat like the Nigerian everyone has been mentioning. I'm not sure if I want to keep diffrent breeds because if the opposite breeds do breed won't I have problems selling some of the kids? I won't be keeping too many kids. I know certain crosses are accepted, but not many people will want a mutt kid lol. I must say there is so much more involved I feel in this decision than the chickens were lol. I decided on the Plymouth Rock much easier. Dual purpose, large beautiful brown eggs, cold winter hardy, nice black and white striping on the feathers. I do care about how the goats look too. I also want would prefer a goat that has milk that is good for cheese making so the fat content matters.
> 
> I probably should be posting this all in the breeds section, but I think it helps to have hear from people who have raised these types of goats.


I started with Nigerians they are sweet but I decided I wanted meat so I went with boer then I wanted milk and I thought well I have my ND but the smaller teats cramp my hands so I put it out there that I had boers and I wanted to cross with a dairy goat if I wanted to stay with the long ears go with a nubian ( I have always loved nubians). I have since sold my ND to a family down the road and they will be pets. I worried that my Boer buck would breed my ND and I did want it to go the other way either so this was the best option. I have bought 2 bred nubian mix does they are 50% nubian and 50% alpine bred to a 100% nubian so the babies will be 75% nubian I believe.
If you want to do a boer and nubian get a nubian buck with good milking lines that is where the kids get their milking traits from and get a boer doe. so you still keep the milking gene and the meat gene. That is what I would have done if I had stopped and thought it through but I love my goats and the kids should be great milkers, their sire came from a dairy with good lines.
I have buff orpingtons for my chickens they are docile and sweet and lay all year and very cold hardy.


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## DKRabbitry (Dec 20, 2011)

My experience with just getting goats:  There are SOOOO many wonderful breeds, and each person is going to rave about theirs.  I went into this looking for Nubians, and ended up with an entire herd of lamanchas and lamancha x's 

The reason I got lamanchas, I found them nearby and at an affordable price and purchased them from a breeder who turned out to be the GREATEST part about getting them.  She has been a wonderful mentor.  The lamanchas are hardy to the cold, and the lines I got for the most part are easy keepers.  I got to reading more about Nubians and as well as not being as cold hardy, some lines are also more sensitive to disease and harder keepers (though you will find different lines like that in any breed)

My one milk doe this past year was giving me a little over 1/2 gallon per day at her peak.  She was a first freshener LAST summer, and had her kid on her all winter, I dried her up in Feb to see if she was bred, and when she wasn't I just went to milking her again and she came back into milk for me without ever having a kid.  That is part of what I plan on doing with my goats, is not breeding them every year, but rather shoot for every other year and just milk through winter.  She her production has fallen to currently about 5 cups/day from her now.   They are mid-sized goats.  My herd averages about 120lbs and about 28" at the wither.  

On herding dogs: I have German Shepherds, 3 of them.  They are from "working" lines.  All are trained protection dogs, one is trained for tracking.  All do advanced obediance and all of them do tricks.  Do they have herding instinct?  Ummm... depends.  German shepherds were bred for tending large flocks.  They work a border and keep sheep in an area.  My old male has that instinct.  He will circle and keep a fenceline all day.  My other two don't.  They have prey drive (which is what herding is based off of), but my female has too much and she will make the kill, my pup just doesn't have a clue and just likes to chase things.  Your GSD won't just bring the goats back to you with instinct.  Can they be taught to work your goats? Most definitely.  I am teaching my pup to work my goats with me, but he needs constant direction, more like a trial herding dog.  I put him where it helps me and it works out just fine in my small area.  
BUT, I will tell you he is really not necessary if your goats are friendly and if you have a small lot.  Goats are a lot like dogs themselves and WANT attention and WANT to be with you.  More than likely you just go out and call them and your girls will come running.  My DH tried herding my friendly goat pen once, it was SOOOO funny.  He was trying to "push" them into the barn and the was yelling and waving his arms and the poor goats were so confused.  I yelled "HONEY! JUST GO IN THE BARN!" and he walked into the barn and they ALL followed him.   
I have some links to really cool articles on the style of herding GSDs are intended for.  Actually, the hot spot here in the US is in NY, I want to go to one of the trials there some day SOOO bad!

Another thing to consider for raising your own meat in a small area is Rabbits


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## dreamriver (Dec 21, 2011)

hello,

my .02  3 gallons a week is not a lot of milk when it's fresh yummy and actually good for you not the white water crap that you get at stores.   Since we've had the dairy goats my family is up to drinking almost a gallon a day, in peak production my Saanan was producing just under 2 gallons a day and I still rarely had enough left over to make cheese etc.  had to salvage to have enough for kefir.

I admire your goals in providing as much food as you can for your family off of your land,  the same thing we are trying to do here.  Just so many chemicals, hormones etc in 'store' bought food

good luck

ps.   I have Dexter cattle, Percheron stallion, chickens, Nubians and Saanan, dogs/cat etc


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## KinderKorner (Dec 21, 2011)

I posted on the other thread you had before I realized this is where the action was. 

And as others have said everyone has their own opinions, and you just have to decide what is best for you. All goats are awesome!

I breed Kinder goats and I couldn't be more thrilled with them. They truely are great little goats. They are smart, sweet, and have very fun personalities. Their milk is high in butterfat, and it's great for making soaps and other things. Mine are very healthy and hardy. They keep weight on easily. (Too easily. Mine are all fat.  ) Their hooves seem to grow slower  and wear down naturally faster than normal. They are not too short to be trouble to milk like nigerians but they are small enough to be easy to handle and eat less than bigger goats breeds. They have a good amount of meat on them.

The biggest downfall to Kinders is the since they are a newer breed and because they are a cross breed there is a lot of differences from one herd to the next. You have to be really careful when buying them and make sure you choose animals that are good examples of the breed. It's a good idea to find breeders with similar goals in mind to yours. I have seen pretty small kinders, and some with small udders and teats. I was surprised at how small they were, while at the same time the breeder was surprised that mine were so big. Breeders will breed to their specific goals and needs. So if they want more meat type goats they will breed larger and not care so much for udders. If they want more dairy they will look at udders and breed towards that forgetting size. You want a nice mix of both, that is how kinders were intended. Always ask what the breeders goals are, and what they look for in choosing breeding stock before you buy. That is a good idea for any breed of goat but especially kinders. 

I myself like the larger Kinders. (they are still 28" or less) I breed for easiness to milk, large teats, well attached udders, and overall size. This year we are introducing spots along with large udders. Can't wait for this years babies. 

I am by no means an expert. But I do have some experience. I enjoy learning more all the time. This year we went to our first shows, and we did great. So I feel I'm heading in the correct direction. One of my does took Jr. Champion out of what I believe is the largest kinder show in the US. 

To see some of my goats you can check out my website. www.kinderkornergoats.com

I suggest joining the yahoo kinder group. There is a ton of breeders on there and you can learn a lot. 

Feel free to ask me any questions and I will be glad to answer in the best way that I can.


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## KinderKorner (Dec 21, 2011)

Just my .02 on nubians.

They are loud, they get sick easier than my other goats, they aren't as cold hardy, their hooves grow really fast, and they are pretty empty up in the brains department.

Saying that, they are really sweet and cute.

I have always had some. haha. I have two now which I love. But they are more work for sure. 

I don't think I could handle an entire herd of them. lol But I do enjoy having a couple around.

Nigerians....

My neighbor has a herd of them.

They are cute, and they come in beautiful colors. But seriously milking that small of a goat, and that small of teats would be a chore. Plus no meat on them. They just seem too small for me to be useful. 

I think a full sized goat would be bigger than you need, and more milk than you need. And nigerians would be too small to enjoy milking them or use them for eating. I would keep looking and see if you can find a breed more in the middle. Maybe mini lamanchas. I've never had personal experience with them. But I hear good reviews. 

Of course I'm bias to Kinders though.


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## DKRabbitry (Dec 21, 2011)

I have actually toyed with the idea of breeding a pygmy buck to my lamancha does to get more meat on the frame of the kids and to see how dairy they ended up.  Also either a myotonic buck over lamanchas or getting some myotonic does to breed to lamancha buck (but with the later option I know I will be losing out on room for good dairy does).  But again, that is dabbing into mixed breeds and it would really depend on your market if that would work out for you.  I am willing to keep or eat anything I produce, so I don't mind experimenting with the full understanding that I might not be able to sell them and I can not keep them all.  And I have a bigger herd to experiment with.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Dec 22, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> But how much milk do Nigerians typically give?  Will one doe give 3 gallons a week?


The RIGHT ND will give you 3 gallons per week.  I think the rub with a lot of folks is that they spend $150 on pet quality NDs and don't understand why they're getting 2 cups per day.  A well managed doe with solid production genetics behind her should give you 4 lbs per day.  You may not see those numbers on her first freshening, but I've had FF's give close to 3 lbs per day and that's just short of 3 gallons per week.  You really cannot judge the breed's ability to produce based solely on pet quality goats.

If you want to be able to snag any backyard milker and get 3 gallons per week then yes, you'll need a standard doe.  They don't have to be well bred to give you those numbers because they're larger goats.  If NDs are what you're after, shop carefully.  They can certainly give you milk (with a wonderfully rich butterfat content), but like any other breed not all individuals are created equal.  Regardless of your budget or breed choice, just be absolutely sure to buy CAE negative does.


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## HB Sheep & Goat Farm (Dec 22, 2011)

Queen Mum "I have a doe that is 36 inches high at the shoulder and weighs 250 pounds.  She is a big Alpine dairy doe.  She gives a gallon of milk a day.   I have a Nubian/Oberhauslie doe who will be about that big."

No offense to you, but I do believe you are WAY over exaggerating the weight of those goats. I have NEVER seen or heard of a dairy doe weighing that much. I recently sold some VERY large saanen does and the largest weighed 135 lbs.

As to the OP I would suggest going with something like lamanchas or oberhaslis. I raise both these breeds and they are extremely gentle and would produce around the amount of milk you want.


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## KinderKorner (Dec 26, 2011)

DKRabbitry that sounds like a great idea. I have seen lots of crosses that impress me more than papered goats. Them seem healthier and you can get a nice mix of different traits from different breeds. The good thing about goats is you can't really over populate them. Unlike puppies or kittens if no one wants an ugly goat, or one doesn't produce they make wonderful meat. I really love pygmy crosses. They are funny little goats, with great personalities, really smart too. Not to mention more meat, and they stay fat on less food. 

n.smithurmond I agree. If your getting in minis of any breed it's important to do your homework. If you want good milk production you have to look for good quality does. Larger does produce alot naturally because they are larger. You can get alot from pet quality does. But smaller does can produce alot too if your willing to search for a good breeder. 

Not only do I agree on getting CAE neg. And I don't mean people who bottle feed and do "CAE prevention." I don't believe in that after having personal experience bottle feeding babies from a CAE mother. Twins. One was neg, one was pos. Ask for testing!
But I'm going to go a step farther and say make sure you get CL testing too. I've learned the hard way, and it's just not worth the heartache and money you'll waste after not testing one goat for $10 before bringing it home. 
*I'd rather have 10 goats with CAE than 1 with CL!*

Some people don't care about testing. But eventually it will matter. It's better to start off clean, than to battle it for years. Plus I could never personally breed and sell goats that I knew were dieased. Because the buyers will eventually breed and pass on, and that is why it is so common in dairy herds.

** Edited to Add

I have 10 Kinder Does on an acre and the grass stays high all year but winter. Goats are little fatties too. We are actually having some trouble slimming them down. Even now when the grass is dead.


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## PinkFox (Dec 26, 2011)

you may also want to look into mini milkers instead of crossing the standard dairy doe with a pygmy (meaty) they cross with nigi (dairy)...
supposedly giving the best of both worlds...

but honeslty given your space and what your looking for i think 2 WELL BRED nigerians would pe perfect.  there cute, sweet and girls from GOOD diary lines should be nice sized teats and easy to milk.  a good milking stand will help wiht any issue with bending over...and nigies are a great ize for kids to handle  (under supervision of course)

in terms of standard breeds i think a lamancha would be a GREAT choice for you guys, everyone ive met has been sweeet, laid back and quiet, great drinking milk too 

im personally planning on having 2 nubians and 2 lamanchas...i love both breeds but nubians are definatly one of those breeds you love or hate...
they tend to be drama queens, loud and a little bit "air head"
i personally love nubis but some people cant handle their personalities.
lamanchas though, ive heard nothing but GREAT things about.


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## aggieterpkatie (Dec 27, 2011)

Eh, I think CAE is manageable.  My doe is positive, and her doeling is negative (because I bottle raised and did "CAE prevention").  It varies with each goat, but I don't think it's the end of the world.  If I had to start over, I'd find a negative doe, but I wouldn't trade my positive doe for anything.


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## KinderKorner (Dec 27, 2011)

I agree Aggieterpkatie. CAE is not the end of the world. Most goats with it don't even show signs. But if you are starting off, I would recommend starting clean. We had a CAE doeling a couple years ago that we kept seperated, and she was a doll and we waited a long time for her, and she was expensive. We were so happy when we got her. We bottle fed her and her brother and waited the 10 months to test her.  But in the end she wasn't that important to us to risk our entire herd that I have worked so hard on for such a long time. She was happily rehomed as a pet to a friend. Now if one of my pets would have came back with CAE I would have had to think long and hard on it. 

CL on the other hand is no fun. Highly spreadable, nasty. After seeing it myself I would never ever take a goat with CL.

I'm glad I am clean and diease free and don't have to worry about it. I will never bring another goat in without seperating and testing first. If you do end up with goats that test pos. it's not the end of the world. But it is a big set back, and you have a lot more work to keep it from spreading. 

PinkFox mini milkers are nice. But I think she was wanting goats for meat as well. And I couldn't see raising nigis for meat. I think your spot on with Lamancha.


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