# Having to get 3rd LGD for my puny 5 acres!



## Ridgetop (Jun 4, 2018)

Ok so we had been doing fine with our first Anatolian, Harika.  We have had Pyrs for years, but last one died of cancer and we started having coyotes take sheep during the day.  We got Harika at 18 months old and we were assured that she would be all we needed for our 5 acres and small flock of about 10 sheep.  Everything went well and no more dead sheep.  After several years of annual cougar sightings we decided to add a male Toli to assist her if the cougar came in.  Rika is a brave and fearless protector but we didn't want to lose her to a cougar attack.  Bubba is now 2 years (Harika is 5) and although he is not as fanatic a guardian as she is, he is very good and still learning.  2 is still a puppy for a Toli male.  Everything good, no need for more LGDs right?

After the fires this year we have had about 5 coyote packs, yes packs not individuals, take up residence in our neighborhood.  Last month while the dogs were kenneled for 8 hours during the day (workmen on the property) we lost a lamb.  Last week the dogs were loose but the sheep were out overnight and we lost another lamb.  Rika was bitten in the face - probably got there just in time to chase off the coyotes who had dug under the fence.  We figured the coyotes had drawn the dogs off to the other side of the property enabling others to get in and kill the lamb.  They were not able to eat it since Rika and Bubba drove them off.  We are back to locking up the sheep. 

Does anyone else have this much trouble on a small 5 acre parcel?  We do have a deep gully steep brush areas.   Fenceline is accessible by predators (not people) on all 4 sides with 100 open acres in the back.  Easy access to National Forest lands several miles away too. 

Let me hear from you about your problems with predators.  We have never had this much trouble since getting LGDs years ago.  I was told to get a third dog so am booking a bitch puppy from same lines as Harika and Bubba.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 4, 2018)

Number of dogs is not determined by land size alone but predator threat/attacks as well. 
I do not agree with a 2 year old male not doing his job though. A good dog will be doing his job well before 2.  I have never bought into that 2 year old nonsense and never will. By 12 months-14 they should have the power and strength and ability to do the job.
In our case our males do better with each other. Females on our farm do not go together well. Kinda like the 2 women in the kitchen thing.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 4, 2018)

Oh Bubba is working fine.  He takes the night shift most days and Rika goes out with the sheep.  He does like to stay closer to the house and gates but can be at Rika's side when she give the alarm almost instantly.  On the other hand, he does tend to follow her but then she is THE PERFECT LGD  so I hate to compare him to her. 

I hear them both at night going from one side of the property to the other and they have been overworked lately.  We have gone back to locking up the sheep and after a week of that they seem to be less tired. 

Oops got to take my grandson to the barn, he is 10 and going to halter break a couple lambs for me.  Back later.


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## mystang89 (Jun 4, 2018)

We have to remember the dogs, coyotes and cugers don't read the fine print about it being only 5 acres and there being more ground a few miles away which they can stomp on.  All they see are sheep on grass.  I would definitely have thought that 2 LGD's would be enough for 5 acres though, especially if it is fenced and electrified, but you can never have too many LGD's right?


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## Ridgetop (Jun 4, 2018)

OK, back again.  Anyway, I am getting 3rd Anatolian this year.  At 5 and 2, Rika and Bubba can help train the new pup till she is old enough to do more than help bark.  The breeder keeps her working pups with mom and livestock till 16 weeks to ground them in LGD behavior before letting them go to new working homes.  The  puppy is closely related to both Rika and Bubba out of Erick's dogs.  I have had such wonderful results with these dogs that I want to stay with those lines.

The 2 dogs I have now are very different in attitude and also temperament. Bubba is more aggressive against people but has been calming down more.  I have been told by many Toli people that this is a normal difference in attitude between male and female Anatolians.  Also, as he goes through his teenagerhood he is learning what is allowable and what is not.  Rika is tolerant of people coming into the yard as long as they are with us.  Him not so much but getting better since he turned 2. 

When I say that he is not as good as she is, that doesn't mean he is not a good working dog.  He loves the sheep, adores lambs, is great with my grandkids, and is protective of the property and flock.  My husband thinks because he spends time on the porch between the barn and house, or on the front patio where he has a view over the front slope (where one of our resident coyotes lives), or near the gates that give onto the road, that he is not guarding.  Rika sleeps during the day at the top of the gully where she has a view over the back of the property, the gully, and north side.  He watches the front of the property, street, and south side.  The sheep usually graze down the back slope into the gully.  I think that they have divided up the work locations between them. The problem is that we are being hit from 4 sides at once so we just don't have enough coverage.  For a while he worked more at night and she worked more during the day but lately
they haveboth been working 24/7.

Like I said in another post to someone else, figure out the total $$ value of _all_ your livestock.  Your LGDs are each worth at least that much or more.  I am willing to pay the price to avoid losing more animals.  I just replaced my ram and ewes that died with expensive purebred registered Dorpers since I am changing over to avoid shearing.  The meat will be just as good or better for my customers, and I will have breeding stock in a few years for which there is a good market here in southern CA.  Instead of losing a $200 lamb I am looking at losing $600 breeding stock each.  )

When you look at the cost of several thousand dollars for a quality LGD from working dogs, then spread it over a 10 year lifetime, the price of the dog is minimal per year compared to the losses.  The cost of food and vet care is negligible compared to the cost of annual feed I put into livestock that is killed by predators and then is a dead loss.  (Oops a bad pun.

3rd LGD here we come.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 4, 2018)

Can't really electrify due to topography.  We have tried but wires come down in high winds or short out with brush.  Too difficult to get into bottom of gully (and back out again) to check wires there.  We have run chain link sideways like fabric along bottom of fences to prevent digging under fences.  We are now raising the fences to 7' around the perimeter.


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## Latestarter (Jun 4, 2018)

Sorry you're losing animals... Since you seem to have animals out front, and animals out back, and the dogs have to cover both areas simultaneously, I'd say perhaps setting up a better paddock system with rotation might help. All the dogs should be with all the animals, in the same general location, at the same time. Coyotes are smart and will divide and conquer if they can. Since you know you have issues, I'd keep the sheep up close and secured over night with the dogs close to them as well. During the day, I'd be sitting at a high point with a rifle and HOPE that the coyotes decided to make a try. Any time you need to secure the dogs (workmen) the sheep should be secured as well.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 5, 2018)

*Absolutely!  We are using the old round pen and have the new ram and the breeding ewes in it for now2 new ewe lambs are penned in the barn temporarily till we can convert the horse corrals.  The 6 12 x 24 horse corrals are at the top of the property abut 50 feet from the house.  We have to put wire around the bottom since they are 4 bar.  I like plastic mesh instead of wire about 3 feet up which will confine lambs as well.  I need to get out with DH and DS to put shelters back on.  They have been off since high winds 10 years ago flipped the entire line of corrals upside down on the hill.  Luckily we removed the horses during the night since high winds could have blown stuff in to spook them and I didn't want any injuries.  The horses are 30 years old (one went down last week) and we haven't corralled them in years preferring them to wander on the field.  Healthier.  So the row of stalls is standing empty and I decided to convert them into night pens for the sheep.  It is safer on top of the hill since the predators have to get all the way in over open ground, past the dogs and the mule.  We need more pens now since we are converting over to purebred registered Dorpers.  We will need to separate some of the lambs instead of simply running them back out with the rest of the flock and will need to have 2 separate breeding herds occasionally.

Anyway, we need to put the shelters back up and then just use the barn pens for lambing and a creep.  My son wants to remove the pipe corrals in the barn and build convertible wooden lambing jugs and creeps.  I think we can run electric wire around the exterior fencing on the lamb pens in the barns where there is a border fence with the neighbor.  This is the only place where the dogs cannot easily get right to the fence.  They have to go through the sheep to get there.  An electric wire might protect from coyotes coming in there although we haven't had any trouble there YET.  That big barn is about 35 feet from the house.  Our danger point is the gully.  That is where all the kills but 1 have taken place in the past 7 years (before we got Rika). *

*We always brought the sheep in at night to do a count, physical check, and feed  once the forage is all gone in the summer.  Our hope was with 2 dogs to be able to leave the sheep out 24/7 when forage is high.   It looks like that is not going to happen.  

Comments on these plans?
*


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## secuono (Jun 5, 2018)

Sorry, but what's a "toli"?


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## mysunwolf (Jun 5, 2018)

secuono said:


> Sorry, but what's a "toli"?



Short for Anatolian Shepherd.


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## Baymule (Jun 5, 2018)

We have coyotes but nothing like you do!


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## Latestarter (Jun 5, 2018)

Sounds good to me... At least you have a plan  I'm sure, as with all plans, there will need to be some adjustments along the way... Just the way these things go.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 5, 2018)

It is because the fires hit us on both sides I think.  Once the hillsides reestablish in a couple of years I am hoping it will return to normal.  In the meantime we will be getting 3rd LGD - they are worth 10x their weight in gold!  Even if the coyotes dwindle back to 1 pack it won't hurt to have the extra protection.


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## Wehner Homestead (Jun 5, 2018)

You’ll also have a trained replacement should anything happen to your others or one ages out of working.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 5, 2018)

Absolutely.  Oldest LGD is Harika, 5, spayed female Anatolian, 2nd is Bubba, 2, entire male (once he is OFA'd and collected he will be neutered too) so female Anatolian puppy will be 2 years + younger than Bubba.  Good age differences - old enough to help train, young enough to still play, and puppy eventually can take over duties from Rika. 
Also what if we get a cougar this winter?  It has happened before and our previous LGDs and house dogs chased it off.  3 have a better chance than 2 or 1 of chasing it off without being injured.  3rd LGD is a win, win.


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## Baymule (Jun 5, 2018)

We have 3 big dogs, 2 Great Pyrenees and a black Lab/Great Dane. The Lab mix is 105 pounds and is heavier than the GP's. he is a house dog, spoiled, loved by the grand babies, and a fantastic dog and companion. He is safe around all the animals and loves the baby lambs and baby chicks. Probably wouldn't take much to make him a LGD too, but we would have to give him up to the farm......not happening! 

We have talked about adding another LGD in a couple of years. Our female will be hitting 10 years old and we will need another dog. I would like to find a really good Anatolian. 

Gosh, don't we all love our dogs!


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## Ridgetop (Jun 6, 2018)

If you want an Anatolian, my personal belief is that the best are the Lucky Hit dogs.  Luckily you are in southeast Texas so contact Erick Conard in Leander just outside Austin.  He has a website but you have to call him since his email is spotty. 

He has a wonderful reputation in the Anatolian community, all the breeders know him and I have never heard anyone say anything but good things about him and his knowledge of the breed and LGDs.  Everyone I talk to when they find out my dogs are Erick's tell me I have the best.  He has concentrated on breeding working Anatolians for 30 years and his understanding of LGDs and how they work is phenomenal.  His dogs are structurally correct, OFA etc. and work.  He has had a lot of champions too because people used to put his dogs down as being "just working dogs" so he took some straight from the ranch to shows and made champions of them to prove that dogs would work and be correct.  He doesn't bother with showing much though because he is committed to the working aspects.  He won't sell you a dog until he has talked to you a lot either.  He wants his dogs to go to working homes only and with people that will understand how to work with them.  Tell him Rika and Bubba's mom sent you and he will know who you have been talking to.  We have become good friends and I call him occasionally just to chat.   His articles about training, and about Anatolian temperament and way of working are fascinating.  They are in his website and he is full of information when you call him.  He is a great resource whether you buy from him or not.

He doesn't do a lot of breeding but has a litter planned for next year.  Both my dogs are from him and our new one will be from his lines but from his breeding partner and friend in VA.  We need a puppy sooner than next year or I would wait for his litter.  He knows the dogs she has (several of them littermates to my dogs or their parents) and told me which of her breedings would suit us best and blend with Rika and Bubba! LOL  His puppies are usually booked a year or so in advance.  He sometimes has older trained females available (12 months or so) once he decides on his keepers.  Rika was 18 months and he has regretted selling her to us ever since.  He says he kept the wrong one.  LOL

After looking this over it sounds like a paid ad but I assure you it is not.  I am just so enthusiastic about Erick and his knowledge of Anatolian LGDs that I have to recommend him.  Another big plus is that any time I have a question or problem with a behavior I call and he is right there to help me with training issues, etc.  If I leave a message I get a call back inside of an hour.  Not too many breeders out there like him.  He has become a personal friend too and we always drop in to see him and the dogs when we are in TX.  I have left instructions if anything happens to us my DS is to call Erick about placing the dogs in the proper working homes!  LOL


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## Baymule (Jun 6, 2018)

Thanks, I'll look him up.


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## Baymule (Jun 6, 2018)

I looked him up......been reading his pages for several hours.

http://www.luckyhit.net/


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## Ridgetop (Jun 6, 2018)

Isn't his writing and research fascinating?!  I love the article about the Anatolians tails signaling the flock where to go.  He actually got down on his hands and knees to research it on the level the sheep and goats would be to see the dog's tail!  He is so much fun to talk to in person too.


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## BrendaMNgri (Jun 10, 2018)

secuono said:


> Sorry, but what's a "toli"?


Yeah I had to wonder about it too  this is THE only place I have ever seen Anatolians referred to in that manner. 
@Ridgetop glad you came around and are getting that third dog. You are beyond needing it!

As for the "you only need x number of dogs on x number of acres" line: the Spaniards in Spain say it best.
_You know you have enough dogs when you stop losing livestock._ There is no set answer, ever. I see people saying
stuff like "you factor x acres in with such and so predators and voila" there is your formula. My ass! 
And as for the Ft. Knox fencing stuff: I have it here, THE fence of all fences. I still had two strange dogs over a period of a few years
somehow get onto my property. They were killed immediately by my dogs. How did they get in? I will never know how they managed.

The older I get, the longer I do this, the more I realize the laughable folly of saying something is always set in stone.
Nature does not work that way. She'll come around and show you who is boss every time LOL.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 10, 2018)

You are right - always be flexible!  If one thing doesn't work try another!  AND if something has worked up to now, decide what has changed and adjust again.

We didn't have any problems after getting Rika and Bubba until after the fires this year.  We even left the sheep out a couple nights last year and no problems.   I am in agreement, you rarely see the dogs work if they are doing their jobs.  The true test is - have you lost any stock?  Since I know my dogs have been working hard, and I have not lost anything up to now, the only answer to why I am losing stock is - not enough dog power for the number of predators currently in the neighborhood.  So, the answer to that problem is another LGD!

*My formula:*   Price of dog divided by 10 working years, multiplied by annual cost of dog food and vet bills = annual cost lots cheaper than losing livestock and sleep!!   Their additional value as burglar protection (do you know what burglar alarms and security companies cost these days?) *and the pure enjoyment of having them around - worth every penny and more!*  Love and loyalty!


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## BrendaMNgri (Jun 10, 2018)

Glad you are doing it. 
And do not ever think that "just because" we "only" have 5 acres, we "can't have" predator issues. 
Not hardly. 
I have seen so many smaller homesteads, farmsteads, 
and hobby farms/ranches with 10x's the predator issues, losses, challenges, than some bigger, commercial outfits or places running on 100's
of acres or more. Size of your place has nothing to do with it. 
If it is sitting smack in the middle of heavy loads of predators, you are going to have challenges. No matter the size of the outfit.

Let us know when your new arrival comes.
I'm familiar with the Lucky Hit guy, although he does show his dogs heavily he obviously has some good lines going for guarding, too.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 11, 2018)

I will post some pix of the new puppy when we get her.  I will also try to get some good ones of my other 2.  I am attaching an old one of Bubba when he was younger, and Rika also young. 

Actually, Erick has different partners who show the dogs for him.  He is really only interested in their working capabilities.  However, he knows that correct conformation is more important for working dogs than show dogs since correct structure is what ensures that they have a long successful working career with the livestock.  Strictly show people tend to downplay the reason for good structure, but as all people with working breeds know, the standards were all established with _reasons_ for the structural qualities behind them.  Any working dog (hunting, LG, herding, etc.) needs structural correctness or they will fall apart in the first couple of years.  The standards were originally established to provide a guide for soundness and structure.  Since then, they have been "tweaked" by those who want just show dogs without caring about the original purpose of the breed.

The reason Erick showed his first couple of dogs was to prove to the "fancy" that a good working dog must have structural correctness behind it.  Now he has partners in other states who show them if they want.  His sole interest is breeding good _working_ dogs.  He also only breeds 1 litter a year anymore, preferring to train his dogs.  He disapproves of the current show people because in order to get an Anatolian with a soft enough temperament to go in the breed ring and be handled by strangers, Erick feels that they are breeding a dog that will not be sharp enough to protect against human predators as well as animal ones.  We showed Bubba a couple of times at 18 months, but he growled in the ring so we retired him.  Several of the well known Anatolian people (Marilyn Harned for one) said it was his age (teenagerhood)and he would outgrow it.  She also said he was one of the nicest dogs she had seen in a while.  We might take him back in the ring at 4 years old, but I am not interested in finishing him or studding him out.  In fact, I want to neuter him eventually.  Bubba is magnificent and could finish, but I have finished enough champions in my time, and know the expense for a couple of ribbons and cheap trophies, not to mention the backbiting and politics!  I am older now and don't need to prove my dog's worth to anyone.  Also, while Bubba is off being confined in a large X-pen at a show, the other dog has to work twice as hard!  Just not a pleasure for me anymore and I don't think LGDs are a breed that enjoys shows either.  Many breeds do but not my LGDs - they want to be with their sheep.

Rika about 18 months
       Liver mask


Bubba at 14 months          
Blask mask

Bubba at a show and not liking confinement in an Xpen but being sooooo good  - showing not our thing any more!
Wastes too much time and Bubba can't figure out why he is not home with the sheep.  Traveling too stressful for him too.
He was about 12 months here, going to first show to see how he would behave and meet the handler...so good but not enjoyable for us anymore.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 11, 2018)

OOPS!  I attached too many - I need practice with posting photos!     But I am doing great with imogees!  
LOL!


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## Latestarter (Jun 11, 2018)

No such thing as "too many" pics.   Thanks for sharing your story/background and they are both awesome looking dogs!


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## Ridgetop (Jun 12, 2018)

Thanks. They do have such sweet faces.  Amazing how those sweet loving expressions can turn ferocious when they feel danger is threatening their sheep or us! You wouldn't believe it is the same gentle dog that allows the grandchildren to crawl all over them! It is amazing how boisterous Bubba can be outside (still a little puppyish) but how totally calm and quiet they both become when they come in the house at night for family time.  Sadly, too many coyotes right now so they won't come in at all.  In fact Rika has been in the sheep pen each morning with the sheep for the past week.  She can get in the 8 bar round pen where we are keeping them while breeding, but Bubba can't (too big now).  Sleeping with them must mean she is worried about the coyotes getting up here on top of the ridge!  I think we really do need the 3rd Anatolian.  Even though it will be a puppy which they will have to protect it will grow fast.  Puppy will have to be trained by all of us but anything good is worth the work.


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## Wehner Homestead (Jun 12, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> Thanks. They do have such sweet faces.  Amazing how those sweet loving expressions can turn ferocious when they feel danger is threatening their sheep or us! You wouldn't believe it is the same gentle dog that allows the grandchildren to crawl all over them! It is amazing how boisterous Bubba can be outside (still a little puppyish) but how totally calm and quiet they both become when they come in the house at night for family time.  Sadly, too many coyotes right now so they won't come in at all.  In fact Rika has been in the sheep pen each morning with the sheep for the past week.  She can get in the 8 bar round pen where we are keeping them while breeding, but Bubba can't (too big now).  Sleeping with them must mean she is worried about the coyotes getting up here on top of the ridge!  I think we really do need the 3rd Anatolian.  Even though it will be a puppy which they will have to protect it will grow fast.  Puppy will have to be trained by all of us but anything good is worth the work.



Wondering if you are actually going to need two more??


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## Baymule (Jun 12, 2018)

Both are beautiful dogs. You are getting pretty good at posting pics!


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## Mini Horses (Jun 12, 2018)

I am of the opinion that bringing the herd to "safer" containment at night is a huge help for the LGDs.  Sorry your have these issues but I love the Tolis.

Right now, I am worrying about ONE fox and my chickens.  The price of bullets is less than a Toli.  Not as much love but, works.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 13, 2018)

2 more _would_ be  great, but twice as much work to train, and I want to make sure we do it right.  Making mistakes with Anatolians is not a good thing since they are so smart and dominant.  Bubba is only 2 so he will play with puppy.  Rika was 4 when we brought Bubba home and she played with him before and after chores (when sheep went out during the day she was on the job but as soon as they were locked up at  evening, the two of them raced around and she taught him to fight, etc.  I will have to add the 4th dog gradually, making sure my older dogs will accept them.  Anatolians are rather an odd breed.  Our Pyrs accepted every dog we had, but while the Anatolians are ok with tiny dogs, they won't tolerate larger ones unless brought on as puppies (up to 6 months).  Even then, some just don't get along with each other when they are adult.  Our property is hard to fence into smaller fields because it is so steep, so I can't really separate the dogs into different pasture. 

I went back and checked birthdates, Rika turned 6 on May 22, and Bubba turned 2 March 12.  By the time the new puppy is 3, Rika will be 9, and Bubba 5.  Rika will be ready for an easier life and the other 2 will be 5 and 3, just the ages to bring in number 4.  Another bitch as long as Bubba is around, since adult male Anatolians never get along.  We would love to get a trained herding dog, but are worried that the Anatolians would just kill it.

Going to email breeder now to find out about litter.


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## Ridgetop (Jul 26, 2018)

Over a month since I updated on this thread.  Finally got hold of breeder, her phone was on blink for a couple of weeks.  Pups are due end of July.  She will hold them in with livestock for 16 weeks for me to be able to pick them up.  This will give them a good start.  On the other hand this means we are driving to Virginia from California with our 5th wheel in November.    Not so sure about this time frame.  Tornado and storm season in the plains and Texas?  When is it?

We could fly out and bring the puppy back on a plane but, we prefer to pick up our LGDs and drive home with them since this gives us a chance to bond with them.  They are  out of their element, confused, and we can talk to them as we drive along so they get used to our voices and smell.  We take empty gallon jugs to fill with water from the home place too so they have familiar tasting and smelling water on the way home.  It is a much slower, easier transfer for them.  But the weather . . . ?   

Anyway, I have decided to ask the breeder to identify a bitch for us that is herd motivated rather than all around property protection LGD.  Our original bitch is completely herd protective.  Our male, good ol' Bubba, protects, but is more property, house. family, general protective.  Still a great LGD but with our coyote problems, I want another herd focused LGD to give Rika assistance.

Sooooo, just as we thought it was safe to go back in the water . . . Oops! Too much Shark Week!   

I was starting to think that we didn't need to add the third Anatolian LGD.  So far to drive to pick her up.  Have to train all over again.  An unsprayed bitch and unneutered male on the sale premises   I hve to restring my other kennel panels, and set them up for when she comes in season.  I will kennel Bubba since if I kennel her I will lose 2 LGDs for duration as he moons around her kennel, lovesick.   By kenneling the bitch, Rika will not let another dog onto the property to breed the young one, and I will check daily and kennel the puppy in another kennel far from Bubba for the danger week.  I love my dog kennels.  Anyway, I have made my plans in advance, but as the danger to the sheep seems to recede, I get lazy and whiny about going "to all that trouble, expense, work, etc. for another dog that I don't really need".   No, get thee behind me temptation !  I do need the third dog.  Rika is getting on and Bubba is not devoted to the flock. 

We have been locking the sheep up in their fold at night near the house so easy to protect.  No more losses, dogs able to get more rest, but lots of coyote activity.  Lots of singing, howling, etc., as they talk back and forth at night.   Saw several during the day checking on location of dogs on property.  Then for the past 2 weeks *dead silence*.   This is not normal and could mean several things.  They have moved on (wishful thinking), they have made alliances and are planning a fully armed night time attack (wait, that is DH's video game), a larger predator like a cougar is in neighborhood (possible since resident male died in creek fire, but late in season for a cougar to wander in), ????? 

So, the dead silence at night makes me nervous.  Rika is again refusing to leave the gully for her dinner.  This always means there is some danger she is worried about.  Bubba will eventually show up to eat, then return to duty, but Rika will not leave her post.   DH has to carry Rika's dinner out to the field and stand there while she eats.  This takes a while because she takes a few bites, then runs out along the ridge for a quick recce, then comes back, takes a few bites, repeat, repeat.

The ewes are all marked and bred , I sold 3 Dorsets last week, making room for possible ewe lambs to be born and kept.  Things seem ok, except for that cursed silence at night.  I am changing the crayon on the buck again for the last time just to see if anyone remarks now, otherwise I expect lambs from October through November.  I will have to plan my trip to pick up the puppy around the lambing dates which may put me on the road over Thanksgiving again.  My children and grandchildren will not be happy.


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## BrendaMNgri (Jul 26, 2018)

Deep breath.
Don't stress over the silence. The coyotes have probably moved on or down the road for a spell.
When they go quiet here, nothing ever happens, it becomes quiet when they quit singing and yipping.
If they are around you are going to hear them.

When are you going to neuter Bubba?

For all the glam-posts I see (not inferring only here, but all over social media) about the joys of breeding LGDs, what
most don't talk about is what @Ridgetop has boldly said: when you have bitches in heat, your male does not work.
He tries to break in to where ever your female is cloistered. ASK ME how I know this -  - would you like to see the
three (!3!) BILLS for $250+ double paned storm window replacements on my ranch buildings? Huh? Well? Do ya? Wuzzamatter.
Scared? Yes, I have Pala the Impaler, who went through three double paned glass windows. Yes, I have Bobo the Moth Man, a huge
Pyrenean Mastiff male able to scale a 6ft "no climb" (ha yah right) fence in search of love. Etc. Etc.
People don't get it. If you are going to run intact LGDs together when someone comes in heat, the game changes.
Immediately. Kiss your guardian dogs goodbye, say hello to Stud Muffins, Superfly, and Don Juan.

I have three (3) females cycling right now. The only saving grace has been our 104 degree heat. My males are all too wiped
out from the heat and high humidity - something we never have at 4500 ft in N. Nevada - to do much fighting or fussing
over the girls, as is the usual. Some fence climbing, but no broken windows this round.

Glad you are getting dog #3. Virginia - been there for work once. In summer. It was hot and humid, yuck, but I was so entranced with 
seeing the monuments, Washington DC etc. I remember only the good parts. Green, so green! HAVE FUN.


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## Ridgetop (Jul 26, 2018)

Forget to put these pix up!  This planter is the one we had to excavate and pull all the ferns out of to re do water lines after tree fell on house and broke them. After finishing the water lines, DH and DS filled it with nice new planter mix but it is too hot to plant till winter.  After filling it and settling it with water, *certain LGDs *realized it was like a comfort bed for them.   Rika fits nicely, but even 7' is not enough for Bubba!  Luckily, DS got these pix since when questioned both dogs took the 5th and when confronted with the evidence pointed the paw as each other!  Since they lack opposable thumbs we can even make them shovel the dirt back in!

*Interior* dimensions are 12" deep by 18" wide x 7' long! 
Rika enjoying escape from 110 degree heat                   
 

Bubba barely fits - can't stretch out!


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## Ridgetop (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks, *BrendaMNgri, *I always planned to neuter Bubba, but I have a purchase contract which requires me to wait till he is 2 so I can OFA certified.  If his certs come back poor, I will neuter him this winter (less flies).  If they come back good, I need to find out if and when my breeder wants to collect him or if he no longer wants to collect him (if he has another out of a 2nd breeding).  This was the only male pup out of the 3 pups that survived when the emergency vet on call refused to do a C-section.   11 dead pups still inside until his regular vet came back into town on the Monday and rushed the bitch into surgery.  Luckily the bitch and 3 pups survived.  This was a long awaited breeding of selected dogs so I think he may have repeated the breeding.  If so, maybe he will not want to collect.    Once Bubba is collected, he is off to surgery.  Snip, snip!

As to the new puppy, I told the breeder I would like to spay her at 2 or so, although if I can get Bubba done it will not be as imperative to have her fixed.  Again, breeder's purchase contract requires me to wait to 2 years and OFA first.  However, the breeder did say that if there were several good females in the litter, spaying her would be OK.    Hoping for lots of beautiful girls in that litter! 

Puppies are fun, funny, adorable, expensive, labor intensive, and I worry about finding good, working, homes for them.  Qualifying owners is a pain, and I don't have the luxury of keeping many more than 3 adult dogs here, per land parcel, until I can place the dogs.  The expense of feeding them is not a problem, it is the license laws here.  Another point in favor of neutering the dogs is that it will save us $600 per year in licensing fees.  It costs $300 per unneutered dog extra (show dogs).  If we wanted to breed we would have to get a $1500 temporary breeding license!  This was designed to get people to fix their dogs.  However, while it has scared a lot of the mills out that were breeding in garages, people that don't fix their dogs, just abandon them when they are picked up by the shelter and get another.    Responsible dog owners pay the price as usual.  Sigh . . . . 

Had my fill of intact dogs, showing, and breeding over the years.  Praying for an all female litter!


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## Baymule (Jul 26, 2018)

November should be ok for traveling through Texas. Hurricane season is going right now, should be all gone by November. Not to mention that the Gulf of Mexico is far, far away. Tornadoes are a spring time thing. Makes me all tingly all over, what a way to welcome spring! Whallop the crap out of everybody with a tornado! 

Have a good trip and stop somewhere for some turkey and dressing. What is more important? Keeping your kids/grandkids happy or going to get YOUR NEW PUPPY?


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## Latestarter (Jul 26, 2018)

Having driven cross country many times, and since you'll be using the southern route, November/December is by far the best time (normally) not too hot, and winter doesn't normally get serious till Jan/Feb time frame. Love the pics of dogs in the planter! Too bad you couldn't plant them and grow more that way. My boy loves his trenches... He's quite the excavator.


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## Mini Horses (Jul 26, 2018)

VA is traditionally quite nice weather wise in November.    Visit Williamsburg, home of one of the first Thanksgivings.
Of course that is coastal and may not be as far as you plan but, hey, after 3000 miles, what's a few more?


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## Ridgetop (Jul 27, 2018)

Baymule said:


> November should be ok for traveling through Texas. Hurricane season is going right now, should be all gone by November. Not to mention that the Gulf of Mexico is far, far away. Tornadoes are a spring time thing. Makes me all tingly all over, what a way to welcome spring! Whallop the crap out of everybody with a tornado!
> 
> Have a good trip and stop somewhere for some turkey and dressing. What is more important? Keeping your kids/grandkids happy or going to get YOUR NEW PUPPY?



Thanks, Baymule, you have a way of keeping things in perspective for me!  

Thanks, Latestarter and Mini Horses, you have relieved my mind about traveling during those months.  It is not the driving back there so much as the thought of being caught in the trailer during a tornado!  I never did care for the Wizard of Oz stories.


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## mystang89 (Jul 27, 2018)

That's one heck of a drive but it's those drives that my wife and I love best. Throw the children in the car and we all go for a road trip, getting to see all new sights and such. Good luck with your pup and the drive!


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## Ridgetop (Jul 29, 2018)

Yes, we love them too.  Now, with 3 adult kids still at home, and our grandchildren over every day for after school care,  we treasure those times as alone time.  DH and I can kick back, sing to the oldies as we drive, and have a great time in our 5th wheel.  DH wants to get in some sightseeing while we are traveling across the country to the east coast. We are really looking forward to it.  The only problem will be the time away from home.  I am president of our bridge club this year and will miss at least one Board meeting.  Luckily, we have several new people on our Board who I am excited about since up to now the same people have been passing the jobs around.  With me gone, our new VP can let herself go and enjoy opening meetings, etc.  It is all part of my nefarious plan to avoid being reelected next year!  NyaaaHaaaHaaa!  New blood in an organization is always for the better.   We leave for Yelm next Saturday and hope to get all the work done and my aunt's house rented out within 3 weeks.  Buying traveling Wi-Fi minutes and taking my computer so I will still be in touch with BYH!


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## Latestarter (Jul 29, 2018)

safe trip(s)... hope you get everything accomplished.


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## Bruce (Jul 29, 2018)

mysunwolf said:


> Short for Anatolian Shepherd.


Actually it is Anatolian Shepherds' Dog. They are not herders as the name Anatolian Shepherd would imply but the dogs used by Anatolian Shepherds to protect the flocks.


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## Ridgetop (Jul 30, 2018)

Well, our Anatolians have now killed 2 raccoons in our yard over the past 2 weeks.  They seemed to be adult size.  I don't think we get the enormous 50 lbs. ones as on the east coast and down south.  Ours rarely top out over 30 lb.  Not sure what they are braving our dogs for, unless it is for water since we don't have any chickens or rabbits at the moment.  Been another heat wave in the low 100's so . . . .  Coyotes are quiet lately, but we are still under observation.  2 successful kills in 4 months has put us on their map. 

Well, my 36 year old chest freezer just gasped its last yesterday.    After moaning for several weeks while we tried to decide if we _really_ needed to replace it, it gave its death rattle and proceeded to try to defrost all our food.  Luckily, I have been finishing the last bits in my new utility room.  Putting up hooks for brooms, etc., and opened it to check it.  Water was dripping, and frost pieces slipping into its depths.    Summoning all hands, a bucket brigade quickly transferred still frozen meat to the other freezer, which I had been rearranging to make room.  Now it is off to buy another freezer.  Unfortunately, it seems that size freezer is no longer made and since we remodeled our utility room to fit that freezer, I now have to go with a slightly smaller one.    Sad, but we no longer put a steer, a hog, 4 lambs, and 24 rabbits at one time into the freezers so it should be ok.  Also, I found last season's tomatoes still in the freezer so when I return from Yelm I will get to them and turn them into sauce and BBQ sauce.  Also some berries for jam.    Oops, too much going on last fall and spring and I forgot they were there.  We have already downsized from 3 freezers to 2 freezers, a 7' chest and this 4' chest which I have to replace.  Although everything is now crammed into the 7', we will have to have space for butcher lambs in about 9 months so might as well get it now.  Also, can unload some of the stuff so the 7' doesn't overwork.  On sale plus 10% military discount.  A new one will save electricity too.   Free delivery and old freezer pick up too.    All good.


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## Mini Horses (Jul 30, 2018)

So -- the GOOD news is that the freezer death occurred BEFORE you left town.    Not much to say "hooray" about but, it is less of an issue now than when you came home to a huge mess!   Did that make you feel a little better?  

Hope that helps just a tiny bit.


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## Ridgetop (Jul 30, 2018)

Absolutely!  We all discussed it at the dinner table and agreed that it was a good thing it happened now.  New freezer  is arriving tomorrow, we will give it 24 hours to chill and will sort a bunch of the frozen goods back into it.  Considering the Creek fire and subsequent evacuation happened while we were out of town, the tree fell on the house the next time we were out of town, I am really surprised the freezer did not gasp out a few more days to make our lives that much more exciting!


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## Baymule (Aug 2, 2018)

I had a 40 year old freezer die and had a new one the next day. Now I have two, both upright. I am glad that you found it before things thawed out and got gross.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 3, 2018)

Absolutely!  We could have picked it up ourselves, but wanted the store to remove and dispose of the old one.  It had been making strange loud groaning noises for a month and we were worried about its health so it wasn't a sudden surprise.  I had been working in the utility room putting up hooks, etc. and stuff was sitting on both freezers for several days.  I had just cleared off the wheezing one to check it and found it defrosting itself.  Luckily we had enough room in the other one, and the two refrigerators to hold everything. 

Our first freezer was an upright - a wedding present from my in-laws.  I went up a lot in Daddy's estimation when I asked for a freezer to save grocery money!    I used it mainly to store my prepared dishes after we got our first chest freezer for meat.  I got tired of large roasts falling out into my toes!  Later we had three freezers, the old upright, and two smaller chests.  one day dh was at Lowes and they were having a floor model freezer and picked up a 6 1/2' ginormous freezer.  We gave our tiny one to my daughter and SIL.  Then the upright went bad and we were down to two again.  Not buying all our meat for the year at the Fair anymore so these two do us for 5 adults now.  Somehow, I seemed to use more food with 2 adults and 4 growing children.  Now I just don't have to cook _everyday_.   

Anyway, Both freezers are working away, I have moved a third of the food back into the new freezer and can go to WA without having to worry about anything.  Except the usual things I worry about - fire, flood, famine, tornado winds, pestilence, livestock predators, etc.  My boys have shown that they can handle everything though and we are just a phone call away with necessary information.

Oh yes, and a new cougar has moved into the old one's empty territory across the boulevard.  I expected it.  Rumor says he is young and emaciated.  Also to be expected after the fires.


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## greybeard (Aug 4, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> but wanted the store to remove and dispose of the old one.


For future reference....
An old chest freezer, filled with dirt makes a pretty good backstop for bullets on a home practice range....for a while, depending how many rounds you send downrange each week...


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## goatgurl (Aug 4, 2018)

old freezers, filled with dirt also make a great raised bed for raising veggies in the winter, you can cover the top with an old glass door or something of the kind and have your own little hot house.  I have old shower doors for mine.
safe travels


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## Baymule (Aug 4, 2018)

A new cougar.....skinny and hungry.....just what you needed. 

Enjoy your trip and try not to worry about the Plagues of Moses descending down upon your farm while you are gone.


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## Ridgetop (Sep 11, 2018)

Well, I will not be getting my new (3rd) Anatolian puppy for a while.  The breeder told me it was a false pregnancy and so no puppies.  No trip to Texas this winter   No meeting any BYH friends.  

However, I am on Erick's list for a puppy from his spring litter (his only planned litter) so will be coming to Texas next year!   

It is just as well since less than a week after returning from Washington I was running a fever with the same thing I had last spring.  Went to Urgent Care this time instead of just riding it out.  Surprise not an intestinal flu but another bout of Diverticulitis.  Some complications so ended up in hospital     on IV antibiotics then home last week with diagnosis that will need some surgery when infection clears which would have prevented us being able to travel to get puppy in Nov/Dec.
All will be well since going to Texas to get puppy from Erick means more time to be IN TEXAS   and travel through east Texas.  Erick says that Tyler is one of the prettiest spots in Texas so looking forward to seeing that area next year. 

Sad not to get new puppy, but predators under control at this time since locking the sheep up at dusk.  They are still active though and dogs still working hard.  Last week DS said lots of ravens and vultures over gully.  He counted sheep just in case but all accounted for so we are thinking maybe the dogs killed a coyote in the gully.  I suggested he might like to climb down there and do some searching.   DS told me I was possibly delirious and suggested I might like to go back to bed! 

If there is a dead coyote down there he isn't any danger to the sheep so he might as well stay there.  Eventually part of him will be dragged up by one of the dogs.  They drag all kinds of old rubbish up - Bubba found an old Kewpie doll.  Could have been a collector's item but he had chewed off a hand.  No respect for antiquities!    Old coke bottles, all kinds of stuff from 100 years ago when they used to burn their trash there have surfaced in Bubba's private trash stash.


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## Baymule (Sep 11, 2018)

We live just north of Tyler, by a few miles, and will be waiting on your puppy run next year, so we can meet you!


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## Ridgetop (Sep 11, 2018)




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## Bruce (Sep 11, 2018)

Ridgetop said:


> DS told me I was possibly delirious and suggested I might like to go back to bed!


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## Mike CHS (Sep 11, 2018)

Bruce said:


>



I can relate to that one also.


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## goatgurl (Sep 13, 2018)

sorry you won't be getting the new pup but am glad the predators have cooled their jets.


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## Steve Quintavalli (Sep 21, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Number of dogs is not determined by land size alone but predator threat/attacks as well.
> I do not agree with a 2 year old male not doing his job though. A good dog will be doing his job well before 2.  I have never bought into that 2 year old nonsense and never will. By 12 months-14 they should have the power and strength and ability to do the job.
> In our case our males do better with each other. Females on our farm do not go together well. Kinda like the 2 women in the kitchen thing.



lol, so true...males seem to be better at teamwork than females as history has shown...I'm talking about humans, not dog!


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## Ridgetop (Jan 27, 2019)

GOT OUR 3RD LGD!  Angel from Idaho, out of Erick Conard's Lucky Hit bloodlines and a Turkish import.  Story in my journal Ridgetop - Our Place and How We Muddle Along (or something like that).  Got to go - bringing in sheep and puppy.  Also need to put dinner in oven.


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## Ridgetop (Jan 27, 2019)

Here is Angel's picture.  She's sooo sweet!  And loves her sheep too.


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## Baymule (Jan 27, 2019)

She is beautiful. How do you let her go about learning her way around, without holding and cuddling her all the time?


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## Ridgetop (Jan 27, 2019)

Very hard.  I am considering buying a baby carrier like I had for my infants.  LOL


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## goatgurl (Jan 27, 2019)

what a beauty!  and she does have that huggable look about her.  congrats on a lovely new addition to the family.


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