# New to goats ...with OB ???



## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 17, 2011)

Hi All!

This is my first kidding, since I'm new to goats. I've had dogs, cats, horses, etc. and was a paramedic (people even!) So, I'm not nervous about the birth exactly, but the waiting thing is getting to me! Both of my does are 4-5 years old and this their 3rd freshening. One doe was bred to be due April 7, but rebred with a date of May 4?? Can I assume that May 4 is the "real" date? This girl is big, and her udder is half filled. The kids "dropped" 2 days ago.


My other doe is a very TINY girl who should be due April 10, no udder to speak of but is growing the past few weeks. Still isn't "big", though. Is there a way to tell if she is expecting? Neither are particularly thrilled with any prodding of their bellies...backrubs are a completely different story!



I also wonder about their diet. I've increased their grain, so they get 1 cup in the A.M. and P.M.-half ShowGoat and half pelleted (what they were on before moving to our farm), free choice coastal (what they were on their entire lives, and what the breeder said was "fine"), but I've added some alfalfa also at noon. Both have become voracious the past 2 weeks, and are even making pig noises! I'm most curious about the alfalfa and the grain. The guy who developed the show goat mix said to give them enough to last 15 minutes. If I did that, they'd be getting 3 x as much (doesn't sound right to me)...they also have loose minerals, and baking soda. We are walking out to the browse area and increasing that gradually, as they'd been pen kept up to 2 months ago.

Thanks for any advice..or corrections!


Kim


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 17, 2011)

By your explanation of breedings,you are saying there is no way the first doe could be due in just a couple weeks?  Just asking because you have a ways to go before May and they don't normally drop the babies so far ahead. NOrmally a few days to a couple weeks.  

As far as feeeding I am going to leave that to some nigerian experts. But personally I think letting them eat all they can for 15 minutes while they are pregnant is way to much. Maybe after they kid and are nursing or milking. 

During pregnancy a doe is going to put all her calories to the growth of the babies, If you have a single, and you are feeding a bunch of grain it could end=up being one big baby. I think the 1 cup Am and Pm is probably more than enough. Certain breeds, like the thinner dairy breeds seem to need more during their gestation, but the breeds that fall into the meat goat catagories and are stockier don't seem to need as much. We don't feed any until 4 to 6 weeks before they are due, just good hay and loose goat minerals put out free-choice.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 17, 2011)

I wouldn't go too heavy on feed in late gestation because that's when the kids do most of their growing..  I like a good sized kid as much as the next guy or gal, but I've also had 10-1/2lb bucklings get hung up at the shoulders...not cool!  What I try to shoot for, if the goat seems to be losing condition, is enough to stem that condition loss -- and no more.

I'll also say that you're adding alfalfa to their diet at a dangerous time..  If they start getting all their calcium from their diet right now, their bodies *may* forget how to metabolize it from their bones..  Unfortunately, they can't get enough calcium from their diet to lactate -- I don't care how much alfalfa you feed.  What that leads to is "milk fever"...hypocalcemia...low blood calcium.  It can be deadly.

The important thing to do w/ regard to calcium, pre-kidding, is to make sure they're still metabolizing calcium from the bones, and the only way *I* know to do that is to not increase their dietary calcium in the run up to kidding..  That means no, or very little alfalfa..  No more than normal..  

After they kid, sure...but just be careful about doing it before.


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 17, 2011)

Thanks so much! It's so contradicting to read all of the internet info. Some sites I read said to only give alfalfa, others none at all. This is what happens when you are ignorant, like me. No trouble to stop the alfalfa....Will they get "enough" from the coastal hay free choice? Part of the problem is that one doe is large, and the other very tiny. I worry about the tiny one losing what weight she does have, if she delivers a baby. The previous owner said this typical for these girls. The larger doe only had a single last year, and the tiny one had small twins.

I was unable to post photos, but was informed that the doe with the questionable due date looks like the first date is accurate. I am quite confused about this breeding again. I thought I'd read that the buck wouldn't be interested in a doe that was already bred.

So many questions...thank you for your patience!


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 17, 2011)

She can't have been bred for a due date of april 7 and still be pregnant 10 days past. NOt possible.

A little alfalfa probably isn't the end of the world, but you aren't going to have much luck helping the smaller doe grow,while she is gestating, They pretty much put it all to the babies anyway. Maybe the first part of pregnancy you could make some head-way, but the last month would just make the babies bigger and bigger. 

Were the does taken to the buck and exposed just for a day and then you brought them back to your farm? 

Do you remember or now the breeding dates?

You can post pictures after posting 10 times.


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 17, 2011)

The larger doe is due 3 weeks from today, April 7th? I bought both does in October and chose the bucks to breed them to for this spring. I didn't pick the girls up from the previous owner until the week before Christmas. The lady told me originally that she was due May 4th, but I asked her to check her breeding dates again. That's when she told me she'd bred her two months to the buck, so April 7th could be the date also.


Today the larger does belly looks like it had before, so maybe the babies just moved around a bit yesterday.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 17, 2011)

oakmarsh nigerians said:
			
		

> The larger doe is due 3 weeks from today, April 7th? I bought both does in October and chose the bucks to breed them to for this spring. I didn't pick the girls up from the previous owner until the week before Christmas. The lady told me originally that she was due May 4th, but I asked her to check her breeding dates again. That's when she told me she'd bred her two months to the buck, so April 7th could be the date also.
> 
> 
> Today the larger does belly looks like it had before, so maybe the babies just moved around a bit yesterday.


I am catching on, for some reason I was thinking March 7. Sorry about that.  Or I was thinking this is april, Not really sure what I was thinking.


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 17, 2011)

No problem, I'm obviously confused too! Can you clarify this breeding two consecutive months? I'd love to know for future reference. I thought the bucks wouldn't do that? It has really confused me about when to start really paying very close attention to this girl. I usually check them as time allows between my other chores, so every few hours.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 17, 2011)

oakmarsh nigerians said:
			
		

> No problem, I'm obviously confused too! Can you clarify this breeding two consecutive months? I'd love to know for future reference. I thought the bucks wouldn't do that? It has really confused me about when to start really paying very close attention to this girl. I usually check them as time allows between my other chores, so every few hours.


We just keep our bucks in with the girls, so I am not an expert on bringing the doe to the buck. I am thinking she saw the doe in heat and took her to the buck, and she kept them together for either a few hours to a couple days,but then to be sure she waited 21 days and did it again, the buck would act interested, but that does't mean she stood the 2nd time, because if she was already pregnant she wouldn't come back into heat and she wouldn't stand still for him. But the bucks will try their best. She should now if she actually was in standing heat, but maybe she can't remember, maybe she just put the doe in for a couple days and wasn't watching, hard to say. 

NOw did she mean she kept the doe in with the buck for the entire time frame to cover two possible heat cycles, so atleast 21 days. I don't think this is what you mean or she means, but that is another option.

Keep in mind a doe can kid between 145 and 155 days of gestation, so there already is a range for the possible due date.


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 17, 2011)

I'm sure she only kept her in the barn with the buck on two occasions for a few days. That's why I was so confused (being new to this), when she didn't initially mention the first "date" they had. The doe (and her udder) is big enough now that I wouldn't be surprised to see babies sooner rather than later. May 4th was scaring me, given the size of things lately.

The other little doe is just the opposite. Tiny little thing with NO udder, but I have felt movement in front of where it would be IF she had one! She's due supposedly at the same time. She really doesn't even look like she's expecting, but I was told that's how she has been the other two times also.


This will be an adventure, and I'm hoping for ALL bucks except one (isn't that the correct way to wish with these girls?)

I'll be happy with any truthfully. The doe who looks like she's carrying multiples is bred to a 10 year old buck. He may not have many more boys, after this year.


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 17, 2011)

This doe with the nice udder is legally Kids Corral FF Accuracy, she's bred to MCH Caesars Villa FL Brat in the Barn. So, these babies will make Kate a Grandma again, since the FF stands for Fire Flame!





This little Girl is Suthrn Charm, and she's bred (we think) to a Tsuga grandson. I think she is bred, since she's not appeared to have gone into heat since.


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## julieq (Mar 17, 2011)

We give our ND does grain morning and night, about 1/2 a lb each, year round (COB with molasses).  To this we add Supergain supplement, with vitamins, minerals and probiotics in the morning grain.    If they're milking then they get fed grain on the milk stand, actually challenge feeding, which means as much as they want while we're milking.  They have free choice alfalfa hay, Golden Blend minerals and baking soda free choice.


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 17, 2011)

Thank you, Julie! It sounds as if your grain is very similar to what I have. The gentleman who owns the mill has his degree from NC State, and developed the "natural" blend. The tag even says he's allowed for the probios, etc. His goats must eat more slowly than these girls do, is all I can imagine. Although, the past two weeks they've pretty much inhaled everything offered. Now that it's getting warmer, I'm having to replenish the water more frequently also.

I peeked at your wonderful site, too. Pretty ladies and a pretty new April baby. Congrats! You answered another of my "issues" on your site about the barn. I'm going to put the kidding pen in one of my barn stalls, and wondered about the best, most natural "disinfectant". Our farm is as organic as we can manage. I also liked the idea of handkerchiefs as filters, very good!


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 18, 2011)

They look nice and healthy, the one, obviously pregnant The other one looks open to me, but things can change a lot in a month. It is amazing to me they are due so close together and look so different in their development of gestation. 

This would be interesting for you to track every few days with photos, especially if the one is actually pregnant to see when she starts to look pregnant. The breeder didn't accidently forget she exposed her later on like she had the other one?


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## helmstead (Mar 18, 2011)

Gonna be a great gramma tee hee, sorta!

I feed differently that most on here.  I LOAD UP my does in the last month unless they're just totally overconditioned.  I created a feed blend that brings them to around 19% protein, 5% fat and they stay on that through lactation and to come back into condition after lactation.  It's also really high in calcium, but I can't remember that number.  We feed a 70% alfalfa mix hay all year, too...so this helps.  All that said, I don't really have a problem with big babies or narrow pelvises...so I don't worry about that like some do.

Yep, I'd say your April date is right on Accuracy.  I can't wait to see more photos of her...there just aren't many Fire Flame babies out there, Carol didn't use him much idunno  ?).


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 18, 2011)

I'd REALLY love to show Accuracy, if I can teach her to lead better. She got a Jr.Doe leg, and then was entered for the last state fair on a whim, and placed. She acts like you are choking her and tries to take off in the opposite direction OR sits down.

The little doe has grown and I do think I feel movement, but she just looks "normal" sized now. Would she be quiet about heat cycles if there are no bucks in the area?

I'll take more photos in a few days.

And my DH reminded me that when we picked them up in December, Charm was in with her buck when we arrived.

P.S. When do they get shaved (whole body), or is that just for showing? It's not oppressive here....yet....


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## cmjust0 (Mar 18, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I feed differently that most on here.  I LOAD UP my does in the last month unless they're just totally overconditioned.  I created a feed blend that brings them to around 19% protein, 5% fat and they stay on that through lactation and to come back into condition after lactation.  It's also really high in calcium, but I can't remember that number.


Can I ask why you do this?  Not trying to start anything, I promise..  Just curious.


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 18, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> They look nice and healthy, the one, obviously pregnant The other one looks open to me, but things can change a lot in a month. It is amazing to me they are due so close together and look so different in their development of gestation.


This was why I was so confused. My first kidding, and they are so different. :/  The wee one is from very good lines too, but apparently is "shy" about showing until the end!


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 18, 2011)

oakmarsh nigerians said:
			
		

> 20kidsonhill said:
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But she was in with the buck when you picked her up?  Could be a later due date, May would make sense.


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Mar 29, 2011)

I've pretty much decided the two does due dates were flip flopped, sort of....the buck's owner was on human grandbaby watch at these doe's breeding, so I can understand why she may have been a bit distracted!  So, Accuracy is due April 7 (5 months, she said), and Charm due May 4th? However, Accuracy kept me up watching the monitor LAST night, up and down, stretch, paw, lay down,  no mucus though. This morning, that udder is filling FAST! She's eating and acting "normal". I couldn't find her ligs this a.m., but that's not saying much with my lack of experience. So, we'll see! It could be another 10 days? Ow, poor girl...she is big! But, the previous owner said she did that last year and delivered a single.

P.S. I intend to get a one day milk test done..at least. Accuracy deserves a star for putting up with me!


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## oakmarsh nigerians (Apr 2, 2011)

Getting closer, I hope! Excuse the poor shave job, it's a process with a wild child!


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