# Am I starving my goats or what?



## WILLIFORD (Aug 3, 2018)

I just started my herd 2 weeks ago. I have 3 Nigerian dwarfs. on is a 3 year old doe in milk and the other 2 are 14 week old doelings. I am giving grain to the doe twice a day at milking. My question is about alfalfa consumption. I have a feeder in their small barn that is made with 2"X4" ag wire. they seem to have no problem using it, but one flake will last for 3-4 days and even then it is still pretty full, but being concerned I may not be doing thing correctly, I pull out the remainder and give them a fresh flake. So my question is 2 parts. First, should they be consuming more than one flake for the 3 of them in a 3-4 day period and to clarify they are not on pasture or able to forage. Secondly, do they only eat the leafy part of the alfalfa, or will the eat the stems as well.


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## Mini Horses (Aug 3, 2018)

Add some leafy green grass hay as well.    Kids are just nibbling now but I'd expect doe to eat a lot more than you describe.  Depends on size of pad of hay …. but, seems less than needed, even for a Nigie.   Not all does like "just" alfalfa.   Yeah, they will eat some stem, sometimes but prefer the leaves.   If the alf is older when cut can be too stemmy for heavy consumption.     Others will chime in with more info & suggestions.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 3, 2018)

I agree with @Mini Horses - add some orchard grass hay or something similar.  Most goats will not eat stemmy alfalfa.
We breed several breeds of goats here and the goats are all very different. Some love alfalfa and go nutty over it but not if it's stemmy. All the goats love orchard but won't touch Timothy hay. I like a mix of alfalfaorchard but not always available.  Some of our goats will walk past the hay (of any type) and just head out to forage.

Not sure of the weight of your flake.  One Nigerian in milk really won't eat alot. What is your does weight?  We have Nigerians at 50 lbs and a few that are 90lbs (yes, fat) ... there is a range.
How much grain is your milker getting on the stand?


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## WILLIFORD (Aug 3, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> I agree with @Mini Horses - add some orchard grass hay or something similar.  Most goats will not eat stemmy alfalfa.
> We breed several breeds of goats here and the goats are all very different. Some love alfalfa and go nutty over it but not if it's stemmy. All the goats love orchard but won't touch Timothy hay. I like a mix of alfalfaorchard but not always available.  Some of our goats will walk past the hay (of any type) and just head out to forage.
> 
> Not sure of the weight of your flake.  One Nigerian in milk really won't eat alot. What is your does weight?  We have Nigerians at 50 lbs and a few that are 90lbs (yes, fat) ... there is a range.
> How much grain is your milker getting on the stand?



I'm guessing she weighs between 50 & 60 lbs. I am pretty sure she has been stressed from being moved down a mountain road for an hour away from her normal herd. She has not been consuming the amount of grain I would expect until the last couple of milkings, which she has ate 2 cups of grain at each of the last 2 or 3 milkings. Which is what the breeder I got her from said I should give her. She is also a lot more relaxed the last couple of days and actual seeks out attention now. May be I will start seeing more hay consumption now too. Another question; her milk production dropped off since the first milking when I got her home. I am sure that is due to the stress and lack of appetite. Will her production level come back up with her improved appetite?


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## WILLIFORD (Aug 3, 2018)

Additionally alfalfa is the only hay the breeder I got them from, gave them, which she pitched out on the ground for the herd. May be they are not used to the feeder. However I have read that goats don't like eating off of the ground and that it is really not healthy to feed them on the ground. if anybody has any insight on this I would appreciate any advice


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## Southern by choice (Aug 4, 2018)

A drop in production is normal. Some does recover well others don't. I strongly recommend you have a fecal run on her and determine her parasite status. Whenever a goat is move, relocated etc there will be a stress bloom. That bloom can get out of control quickly and will also affect production. Don't just deworm. Know the EPG (Eggs per gram count) and when you do deworm recheck after the full course to check efficacy. Remember most dewormers only kill 4th stage.  How is her FAMACHA?  

As far as 


WILLIFORD said:


> I have read that goats don't like eating off of the ground and that it is really not healthy to feed them on the ground



Deep sigh....
yes, no, depends on situation... bottom line is there isn't a one size answer.
If you have parasite issues than feeding up off the ground is critical
If you have brat goats that won't touch something that falls out of the feeder than you end up with goats not able to ever eat off the ground pers se

My opinion is best served with a picture.  This goat prefers the grass, the vines, the leaves. She prefer that over any good hay... poor quality hay she likes. Why? Because she is from a very hardy line that are still goats, act like goats, live like goats.  Her dam is on no grain at all and is the heaviest goat on the farm. She brings herself into milk.  We retired her last year after this doe was weaned. 
This goat like the others in her family love the bermuda grass that is deep down. Granted we don't have parasite issues, but we also prefer they build some resistance. 
All our goats. Lamanchas, Miniature Lamanchas, Nubian, Nigerian Dwarfs all eat off the ground. They also have hay feeders all over the place as well as in the barn... yet someplaces we drop hay  (piles) on the ground. They eat it. They are not barn dwellers. IOW if they are holed up in the barn due to wether they eat very little hay. They prefer to eat outside.  




 

Do what works for you. There is a trial and error when new to goats. There is no one size fits all, one single management style etc. The goal is healthy, hardy. 
You are asking great questions btw.


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## Ridgetop (Aug 4, 2018)

If your goats are on free feed hay, they are probably eating enough.  If your milking doe stressed from moving she is probably down in production and may have gone off feed a bit.  Moving from her known herd to a new location and away from her other herd members, it may take her a couple of weeks to settle in.  If she does not perk up in a few days, and you have wormed her (per Southern's suggestion), you can try giving her an injection IM of B complex. 

We had no pasture and all the feed our goats ate was carried to them.  They ate alfalfa, because that is what is most available here.  Once we got to a certain number of milkers we bought our hay by the field.  The dairies all had contracts for the first cutting, but we contracted for the second cutting.  More protein so higher milk yield.  We weighed our milk and fed pound for pound according to what they gave.  Then we would back off and decrease the grain slightly until they decreased the output.  We kept them on a regulated amount and were on milk test, milking a 10 month lactation.

As far as eating off the ground, it there was forage and they went out to eat brush, weeds, forage, etc. they would eat off the ground, but usually nibbled brush.  We made keyhole feeders.  There is a head size hole with a slot below it.  The goats step up on a step to put their heads through the holes into the feeders to eat.  If they try to step back and down their neck slides into the slot and keeps them from pulling their head with a mouthful of pricey alfalfa out and dropping it on the ground.  This was because if the goats pulled hay out of the feeders and it fell on the ground, they would pee and poo on it and not eat it.  The keyhole design kept them from pulling hay out and dropping it.  They would not eat stemmy hay so every few days we cleaned all the feeders out and fed the stemmy hay to the horses, or the calves we raised on the goat milk.  

If you don't have any other animals that will eat the stemmy hay, it makes a great addition to the garden for compost.


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## WILLIFORD (Aug 4, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> A drop in production is normal. Some does recover well others don't. I strongly recommend you have a fecal run on her and determine her parasite status. Whenever a goat is move, relocated etc there will be a stress bloom. That bloom can get out of control quickly and will also affect production. Don't just deworm. Know the EPG (Eggs per gram count) and when you do deworm recheck after the full course to check efficacy. Remember most dewormers only kill 4th stage.  How is her FAMACHA?
> 
> As far as
> 
> ...



I don't have a FAMACHA card, but I did view it online. Her color is definitely in the red to pink, so I don't suspect a heavy worm load. However I did order some Molly's herbal dewormer. I do plan to have a fecal test done but with my work schedule that will be a week or so out. I was not aware that they prefer to eat outside. That makes since and they do seem to eat the alfalfa I throw out in their yard. I am going to move their feeder outside. That obviously is not the fix all, but I'm sure it will help. Thank you for the knowledge.


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## Mini Horses (Aug 4, 2018)

Goats are funny creatures who have lived off of scrub for years.   Their favorite is to munch & move all around.  We have forced them to accommodate our lives.


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## Southern by choice (Aug 4, 2018)

Keep in mind every herd is different. Our goats hate to eat in the barn and it affects us especially when we have days of rain and milktest. 
Our tester that comes laughs because hers won't leave the barn. Nope. Acres upon acres of gorgeous land. They lounge around and eat hay in the barn.

There seems to be no happy medium in goats.   We have hay feeders in and out of the barn.  We also have bins.  

The goats will adjust to how you want things set up. Give it time.   Giving B complex as Ridgetop suggested is a good idea. Not a fan of IM injections however.  If you have some probiotics that would be a good thing to give to boost her  right now.

It sounds like the goats are doing fine. Just keep watch like you are.


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## WILLIFORD (Aug 4, 2018)

I appreciate the help. I was happy today. She ate all the grain I expected her to at both milkings today (2 cups per milking), and wanted more. So I gave her additional cup at each milking.  She followed up by eating a good portion of alfalfa. I think she just needed time to get acclimated.


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## WILLIFORD (Aug 4, 2018)

WILLIFORD said:


> I appreciate the help. I was happy today. She ate all the grain I expected her to at both milkings today (2 cups per milking), and wanted more. So I gave her additional cup at each milking.  She followed up by eating a good portion of alfalfa. I think she just needed time to get acclimated.





Southern by choice said:


> Keep in mind every herd is different. Our goats hate to eat in the barn and it affects us especially when we have days of rain and milktest.
> Our tester that comes laughs because hers won't leave the barn. Nope. Acres upon acres of gorgeous land. They lounge around and eat hay in the barn.
> 
> There seems to be no happy medium in goats.   We have hay feeders in and out of the barn.  We also have bins.
> ...





Southern by choice said:


> Keep in mind every herd is different. Our goats hate to eat in the barn and it affects us especially when we have days of rain and milktest.
> Our tester that comes laughs because hers won't leave the barn. Nope. Acres upon acres of gorgeous land. They lounge around and eat hay in the barn.
> 
> There seems to be no happy medium in goats.   We have hay feeders in and out of the barn.  We also have bins.
> ...



Based on the input from you, ridgetop and southern by choice, I am going to put another feeder outside and keep the one inside as well. Thanks everyone. I am new at this and appreciate the support.


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