# Getting a premee 3 day calf- How much to feed ** photos added **



## Azriel (Feb 13, 2013)

I'm getting a premee calf, she is 3 days old today, I'll be getting her Sat. morning. She would not nurse her Mom, so the man that has her has been milking the cow and bottle feeding the calf. She is taking the bottle OK, but I will be putting her on milk replacer. I will only be able to feed her 3 times daily, how much should I feed per feeding.


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## jhm47 (Feb 13, 2013)

Don't make the switch to replacer too fast.  If you do, you likely will wind up with a case of scours.  I'd give it 1.5 pints of whole milk in the AM, 1 pint at noon, and another pint in the evening.  After a couple days of this, give it 1 pint whole milk and 1/2 pint of replacer in the AM, 1/2 pint of each at noon, and half and half in the evening.  Go with half and half for a couple days, and then go 3/4 replacer and 1/4 milk for a couple days, and finally switch to all replacer.  BE SURE NOT TO OVERFEED.  In general, a hungry calf is a healthy calf.  It should always be hungry when you finish feeding it.  Overfeeding is the biggest cause of scours.


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## she-earl (Feb 14, 2013)

I would also make sure the calf has access to a good calf starter feed and water.  Don't give any hay until it is at least six-weeks-old.  I second what jhm posted.   I always switch our holstein calves this way and have not had trouble with scours.  Don't give the calf hay until it is at least six-weeks-old.


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## redtailgal (Feb 14, 2013)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Don't make the switch to replacer too fast.  If you do, you likely will wind up with a case of scours.  I'd give it 1.5 pints of whole milk in the AM, 1 pint at noon, and another pint in the evening.  After a couple days of this, give it 1 pint whole milk and 1/2 pint of replacer in the AM, 1/2 pint of each at noon, and half and half in the evening.  Go with half and half for a couple days, and then go 3/4 replacer and 1/4 milk for a couple days, and finally switch to all replacer.  BE SURE NOT TO OVERFEED.  In general, a hungry calf is a healthy calf.  It should always be hungry when you finish feeding it.  Overfeeding is the biggest cause of scours.


This is EXCELLENT advice, and I'd recommend you follow it exactly.

I'd also recommend that you go ahead and purchase a small bag of electrolytes to have on hand,, just in case.  Get the smallest one you can find.

And, I start putting hay out to calves at about 3 weeks.  This is about when I see the dam raised calves start nibbling on it.  We've never had a problem with allowing hay before weaning.


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## she-earl (Feb 14, 2013)

I need to disagree about giving hay prior to six-weeks of age.  We have been to various meetings given by our vets, other dairy meetings, calf raising meetings, etc. and that is one item that everyone has agreed about.  They even had slides showing the inside of the stomach of calves that had hay at different ages prior to six-weeks and the stomachs aren't able to handle it.  When you do start to give hay at six-weeks, make sure that it is good quality and not dusty.


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## redtailgal (Feb 14, 2013)

she-earl said:
			
		

> I need to disagree about giving hay prior to six-weeks of age.  We have been to various meetings given by our vets, other dairy meetings, calf raising meetings, etc. and that is one item that everyone has agreed about.  They even had slides showing the inside of the stomach of calves that had hay at different ages prior to six-weeks and the stomachs aren't able to handle it.  When you do start to give hay at six-weeks, make sure that it is good quality and not dusty.


Strange, I've worked on dairies with Holsteins and Jerseys........been around calves my whole life and have NEVER had a problem with this. (now that I have said that though, I'll end up with problems.....just wait and see  ).

Anyway, we've always put out hay at about 3 weeks for them to play with.  It's just what works on our farm.


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## animalfarm (Feb 14, 2013)

I have difficulties with hay being an issue as well. Right now, I have a 4 week old calf who is nibbling hay along with mom and the aunties. She really doesn't do much more then nibble so maybe thats the secret. All calves that are outside with older stock eat at a very early age. I believe that there is a bigger problem with the quality of some of the milk replacers.


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## Cricket (Feb 15, 2013)

The vet also told us not to feed hay, but after a couple of days of watching them eat their sawdust bedding, we went back to having hay available.  But it's usually leftover from the dry cows, so kind of yucky.  We don't give them yummy stuff until they're around 2 weeks.

A couple of months ago I was reading part of someone's thesis on this and he was quite detailed about how wrong it was to give them hay, but then said at the end calves that started hay earlier had faster growth rates, but they didn't know why.  Think it might be yet another thing where you can find convincing evidence of whichever side you want to land on!


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## Azriel (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the replys, I wasnt able to get online last night. I found out that the man that had the calf was only feeding it once a day, so I had to go pick it up after work yesterday. He was able to get some milk  out of the cow,(Angus range cow) and had been feeding it milk mixed with milk replacer, so I went with straight replacer, I am not able to get fresh milk. I did get a small bag of electrolytes with vitamins.
The calf is very weak and at this point can not stand. Last night I was able to get about 2 cups of milk into it. This morning I gave it 1 quart. I got home from work about 3, and gave it another quart, and plan on another quart before I go to bed. It is hungry and would like to eat more, but I know not to over feed, but I feel so bad for the poor baby.
 Over the weekend Ill be able to feed more often, but I work 4 days a week, and will only be able to feed 3 times daily on the days that I work. Will it be harmfull to feed it more often on the days I'm home, then 3x on the days I work? I'm not sure this little one is going to make it, but I'm going to give it my best.


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## redtailgal (Feb 15, 2013)

Three times a day is fine (I only feed mine twice a day after they are a couple weeks old).

You need to stick to the same feeding schedule every day, dont change it on the weekends.  GRADUALLY work this calf up to about 1 1/2 quarts three times a day.  Take it SLOW esp if it is weak.  If you are doing quart size "meals" right now, I'd stick there for about a week before bumping it up any.  You would run a serious risk of scours and bloat by changing things up like this.

The calf may be too weak to stand right now, but watch out.........I've seen them just think they cant stand a couple days later.  Encourage the calf to get up.  The strain of trying will help build strength and the movement/struggle of trying will help prevent pneumonia.  Encourage this calf to get up EACH time you give a bottle.  Dont be ugly about making it try to get up, but dont be nice either.  Be firmly persuasive, give a smack on the rump if you have too.  It's more important to prevent pneumonia than it is to be it's friend right now.

You can also try an injection of B complex.  

Watch VERY closely for scours......at the FIRST sign of runny or milky looking poop, STOP all milk for 24 hours and reintroduce it again more slowly.

Is there any way that you can post a pic? (front the front, rear and each side, if possible)


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## Azriel (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm trying to get the calf to stand, would putting it in a sling and hanging it so the feet are touching the ground a few times a day help any. I've been working her legs, stretching, and flexing them when I get done feeding her, and it seems like she wants to get up but doesn't try very hard. 
I also have a poop question. Her poop is very firm, almost like dog poop, when it breaks apart its like little rabbit beans. Is this OK. She poops every time I feed her which I'm sure is normal.
I'll get some photos and post them later today.


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## Azriel (Feb 17, 2013)

I got some photos of the calf, I still can't get her to stand, but all else is going well. She is eating very well and still acts hungry when she finishes her bottle, and no signs of scours yet.  If I keep trying to help her stand, will she just get up when she is ready?


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## redtailgal (Feb 17, 2013)

What makes you think she is a preemie?  She looks pretty good, honestly.  Her ears are a little low and her legs seem swollen.

Feel her legs, esp at the "knee".  Are they hot? are they "squishy"?  She NEEDS to get UP.

When you try to make her stand is she making ANY effort to do so?

Have you tried picking her up and PUTTING her on her feet?  Get some help if you need it.  Stand her up on her feet, give her enough support to see if she is "noodle" legged or will make an effort.

She needs motion.........she needs to lay on different sides and she needs to stand UP a few times a day, even if you have to pick her up.

If all else fails, put a bail of hay under her belly to help her stay on her feet for a little while.....stay with her until you let her lay back down.


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## Azriel (Feb 17, 2013)

I guess not really a premee, the cows were not due till March 10th, a dog got in and chased the cows and this one a a few others were born a good 3 weeks early. This one was to weak to stand and nurse and the owner of the cows only had time to help her once a day. I got her when she was 4 days, cold and very week. She is 7 days now, and doing much better, but still won't stand. I have been trying to get her up and lift her and try to make her use her legs but so far not much luck. Sometimes she almost looks like she wants to get up but just doesnt really try. Her knees are a little swollen, but not hot, and I don't think squishy. Her legs look short to me, but I"m used to horses not cows. I did make a sling that I have been lifting her in but I think that is hard on her, she is between 50-60 #, and I can't lift her, I hadn't thought of straw bales, I'll do that tomorrow. I do work her legs and roll her from side to side, and I know she is moving somewhat on her own, sometimes when I go down to her she will be in a different place than when I left her, but she just isn't trying to get up and stand.


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## redtailgal (Feb 17, 2013)

Do you know if she was able to get any colostrum?  I am concerned about naval ill........


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## she-earl (Feb 18, 2013)

Have you taken the calf's temp?  It should be somewhere between 101 - 102.5 possibly depending on time of day, has it been exerting itself therefore raising body temp.  If the temp is over 103, the calf should have antibiotics.  The type of antibiotic would depend on symptons:  coughing use Nuflor, draxin,  unknown reason for a fever - penicillin.  How has the calf been drinking for you?  Sometimes a calf that just "needs a kick in the pants" may benefit from having some electrolytes added to its milk.


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## Azriel (Feb 19, 2013)

She still won't stand, today I got another shot of B complex- giving 5ml for 4 days, BoSe 1.5ml daily for 2 days, and A&D just 1shot, also got a different kind of electrolytes. 
She is eating well, I'm feeding 3x daily, 1.5 quart morning and eve, and 1 quart mid day. Is that enough for a calf her size,? I don't want to over feed, but don't want to starve her either. She sucks the bottle dry and would take more. No scours, no fever, seems bright and alert, just can't stand. I'm at a loss, don't know what else to do. 
I was told she had stood a few times before I got her, but I don't know if I belive that. I was also told that she got colostrum, but the guy that I got her from was only able to help her once a day. 
Her navel looks good, not draining and not swollen. I did check her legs, not swollen, not squishy, not hot.


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## jhm47 (Feb 19, 2013)

You're feeding enough for a calf that size and age.  Whatever you do, don't overfeed.  This calf has enough problems without getting a digestive upset (scours).  She also will have more incentive to stand if she's a bit hungry.  You might want to try to coax her up by keeping the bottle a bit out of her reach as you feed.  Make her stretch out to reach the nipple.  Each day try to make it more difficult for her to nurse.  Also have someone help her to stand while feeding her, and only let her suck while she's standing.  This may sound cruel, but you sometimes need to take drastic measures to get results.  And-------Good Luck!


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## Azriel (Feb 20, 2013)

The calf has been trying to stand today, I had some help and did get her standing with 2 of us holding her up, but she still can't get up on her own. I do feel encoraged that she is at least trying now. I would be so happy if she was up when I get home from work tomorrow. I'll update on her progress tomorrow.


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## redtailgal (Feb 21, 2013)

Rub her legs a little, they may be numb from laying on them so long.

You can also take a beach towel or something similar and use it as a hand held sling to help her develop some muscle tone.

If the weather is nice and sunny, try to get her outside......sunshine works wonders for all of us critters.

I agree with jhm on the feeding.  I agree with the entire post, but want to add a little to it. Dont take it personal, I speak from experience here.........This calf has it MADE IN THE SHADE.  She gets to lay around and have her meals prepared and delivered warm.  No competition, no chasing mom around to catch an udder..........shoot, I wouldnt get up either!  I had a calf do this to me once, that is until I figured out that she had trained ME.    Time to suck it up and give a little tough love, here.  Skip a meal.  Missing one meal wont hurt her.  It will make her hungry.  With any luck, she'll get up and wobble around searching for her meal.  If not, then go back to your regular feeding schedule but......... be really really mean and tease her with her bottle.......make her work for it by trying to get to it for a couple minutes before you give it to her.  Make her work a little harder each time, until she is up and walking to you for her bottle.

No more free ride for this little chic.  

Be tough.  She will be pitiful....


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## Azriel (Feb 23, 2013)

Well, she still won't stand, I'm really loosing hope for her. I'm putting her up in a silng several times a day trying to get her to stand.  My BF is much harder on her than I am, he had her in the sling holding her back end up by her tail,and making her struggle with her front legs, I felt so bad I was almost crying. He moved her out to the barn today, I didn't want to, but it might be better for her. Its only 30 degrees today, so I put a heat lamp on her so she doesn't get to cold over night. I have been rubbing her legs, and moving her from side to side. I know she needs to get up, I just don't know what else to do. My neighbor said to give her a shot of Banimine if I can find a vet to get me some, has anyone heard of this or tried it?


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## TGreenhut (Feb 23, 2013)

Azriel said:
			
		

> Well, she still won't stand, I'm really loosing hope for her. I'm putting her up in a silng several times a day trying to get her to stand.  My BF is much harder on her than I am, he had her in the sling holding her back end up by her tail,and making her struggle with her front legs, I felt so bad I was almost crying. He moved her out to the barn today, I didn't want to, but it might be better for her. Its only 30 degrees today, so I put a heat lamp on her so she doesn't get to cold over night. I have been rubbing her legs, and moving her from side to side. I know she needs to get up, I just don't know what else to do. My neighbor said to give her a shot of Banimine if I can find a vet to get me some, has anyone heard of this or tried it?


Just wanted to say good luck, this sounds really difficult. Keep working with her and I hope she pulls through. Banamine is a pain killer so it might do some good. Maybe her legs are painful so if you give her the shot to relieve the pain she'll be more willing to stand?


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## Cricket (Feb 24, 2013)

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12402&p=1  I don't know what's wrong with your calf, but if she's eating and pooping well, you're doing REALLY well and I wouldn't give up on her!  The thread I posted here concerns clubfoot, which I realize is different, but thought you might be encouraged to see some bad legs.  I think my heifer's photos are message 17.

Your calf doesn't know she should be up running and jumping and feeding on her feet--this is her normal.  You're going to have to show her the way it's supposed to be.  It's hard not to feel sorry for the little buggers, but they really don't feel the same about being lame (or pain, for that matter!) as a human would, so try not to project your feelings onto her.  Some calves born to first calf heifers don't have enough room while they're developing and they have floppy legs.  The farm vet said 'form follows function', so the more you get her into her proper position, the better she'll be.  Best of luck and keep us updated!


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## Azriel (Feb 27, 2013)

I have a bit of good news on the calf. I was able to give her the Banamine shot tonight, then I fed her and let her rest for about 15 min. before I put her up in her sling. After being up in the sling for maybe 10-15 min. she was standing for at first just a second or two, but I kept her in the sling for about a half hour and by the time I let her down she was actually walking just a bit with the help of the sling. She is still not able to get up by herself, but I'm more hopeful now.


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## Azriel (Feb 27, 2013)

Azriel said:
			
		

> I have a bit of good news on the calf. I was able to give her the Banimine shot tonight, then I fed her and let her rest for about 15 min. before I put her up in her sling. After being up in the sling for maybe 10-15 min. she was standing for at first just a second or two, but I kept her in the sling for about a half hour and by the time I let her down she was actually walking just a bit with the help of the sling. She is still not able to get up by herself, but I'm more hopeful now.


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## Azriel (Feb 27, 2013)

Sorry for the double post, not sure how that happened.


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## woodsie (Feb 27, 2013)

Glad you have some good news! Sounds like you are doing really well....she's very lucky to have you!


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## farmerlor (Feb 28, 2013)

Yea!  I'm so happy for you.  Sounds like you've got her saved.


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## jhm47 (Feb 28, 2013)

If she were mine, she would have to be standing to eat.  This will motivate her a lot.  I know---sounds cruel, but in a case like this, you need to take drastic measures.


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## redtailgal (Feb 28, 2013)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> If she were mine, she would have to be standing to eat.  This will motivate her a lot.  I know---sounds cruel, but in a case like this, you need to take drastic measures.


I agree.  NO more free rides.  Sound to me like she has a hard case of "princess-itis"


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## Azriel (Mar 3, 2013)

I am putting her up in the sling to feed her most of the time. I just don't have time in the morning before I go to work. Its not that she isn't trying, she just can't get up yet. I think that might be my falt for letting her lay to long. She trys, and gets her body about a foot off the ground then falls down. I think the sling is helping, she is getting stronger, and is starting to get her legs working, but still can't hold herself up. I'm not ready to give up on her yet.


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## Azriel (Mar 24, 2013)

Just a quick up date. We had to put this calf down. After a month of trying to get her up and walking, I started seeing what looked like an S curve in her spine, and she wasn't even trying to use her back legs anymore. I was finally able to get a vet to come out and look at her, and she did have a spine problem, and wasn't ever going to be able to get up and walk. It was a hard, but best for the calf.


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## Cricket (Mar 24, 2013)

I am SO sorry, you put so much effort and heart into her.  At least you know she was well fed and cared for while she was on earth.


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## TGreenhut (Apr 3, 2013)

Cricket said:
			
		

> I am SO sorry, you put so much effort and heart into her.  At least you know she was well fed and cared for while she was on earth.


x2! Sorry you lost her. Thanks for giving her the best (short) life she could possibly have had considering her ailments.


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