# Khaleesi's Kidding Thread - Babies Born!!!



## thailand (Feb 5, 2016)

Hi everyone .  I've been posting on this forum for a couple of months now and thought it might be time to start a thread here.  I'm a newbie to goats and Khaleesi is due to kid anytime.  She was already bred when I bought her but the previous owner did not keep a track of dates.

Over the last couple of weeks she has had goo, both clear and amber colored, mostly small amounts.  Then, maybe 5 days ago she had a long string of white/clear goo.  Not a lot since then.  She has become waaay more affectionate (she already was clingy) and loves nothing more than to stand hard against me and have me rub her face while she closes her eyes.  

She has kidded twice before and has had twins both times.  I've posted some photos below that I took just yesterday.  How close does everyone think she is till kidding?  Do you think she will have a single or twins?

Thanks in advance for all opinions  

[URL=http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160205_120938_zpskwdcuxuk.jpg.html]
	
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The last photo is of her laying down...too tired to walk any further after just 20 minutes browsing!


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## babsbag (Feb 5, 2016)

I am horrible at guessing how long before they kid but I would say that she is having twins again. Looking forward to seeing her kids.


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 5, 2016)

Aww! Cute!
I like her name!  I'll guess twins like @babsbag!


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## norseofcourse (Feb 6, 2016)

One of my sheep gets really affectionate like that in the couple weeks before she lambs.  I am not good at guessing timing on goats, but statistically she's likely to have twins again.  I know you are so looking forward to her kidding!


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## Latestarter (Feb 6, 2016)

She's still a very pretty girl  I'll guess twins also, though she doesn't look all that "wide". And I'll guess some time the week of valentines day. Good luck  and keep us posted please!


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 6, 2016)

Yay, another kidding thread! I think that she'll have twins, too. She's pretty!

What breed is she?


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## thailand (Feb 6, 2016)

Hello    I am told she is a cross between a Thai goat and an Alpine.


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## thailand (Feb 8, 2016)

While I'm patiently (not!) waiting for Khaleesi to hurry along with kidding, I have a question.

I attempted to buy some Bo-Se the other day.  All I could find was  "Vitamin E + Selenium" Pro inj.  The company seems to be VMD.  As stated on the bottle, "Vitamin E acetate 17mg, Sodium selenite pentahydrate 1.67mg,Excipient up to 1ml"

"Indications: Treatment and prevention of muscular dystrophy (White Muscle Disease, Stiff Lamb Disease) in cattle, pigs and poultry.  Encephalomalaia, exudative diathesis, decreased hatchability of eggs in poultry, diminished fertility in pigs.

Dosage: Intramuscular injection
- Ruminants 2 - 2.5 ml/10kg b.w.
- Pigs 1.2 ml/10kg b.w

Repeat injection after  1 month (in case of prevention, 1injection is sufficient).

- Poultry - 10 mls per 40 ll of drinking water, during 6 days.

Has anyone heard of this one before?  Will it be ok to use?  It's made in Belgium.

Thanks


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## goats&moregoats (Feb 8, 2016)

Everyone here loves kidding threads....can't wait to see her babies..Here is wishing you a successful healthy kidding this year.


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## thailand (Feb 8, 2016)

Thanks


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## samssimonsays (Feb 8, 2016)

Can't wait!


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 8, 2016)

thailand said:


> Hello    I am told she is a cross between a Thai goat and an Alpine.


 
I have an Alpine goat too, and I am also waiting for her to kid (she was due February 4th).  Maybe they'll both kid on the same day.


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## thailand (Feb 8, 2016)

Yaay, a kidding buddy!  

As I'm a very new goat owner, sum total of almost 3 months....can I please ask you, Goatgirl, what are you feeding your girl right now?


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## thailand (Feb 8, 2016)

Quick question please..

Are cattle weight tapes the same thing as used for goats?  I saw one for sale the other day and it was a reasonable price.  There are literally NO goat supplies available here in Thailand, so just wondering if this would work the same?  (Hope this isn't a dumb question  )


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## babsbag (Feb 8, 2016)

The Bo-Se that you asked about appears to be very similar to what we get here. The dose I am not sure about as my metric math is awful but I do 1 ml. per 40lbs. While I dose all my does about 2 months before they kid some people won't do pregnant animals as it says that ewes can abort it they are treated when pregnant.


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## thailand (Feb 8, 2016)

Ok.  Thanks Babsbag.  Good to know it's really just the same thing.  Hopefully someone can confirm a dosage for me.  I haven't yet had to inject her with anything, and to be honest, I'm seriously not looking forward to that.  I would much prefer to give her meds orally.  I'd be ok with SQ, it's IM I'm scared of doing!

Any thoughts on that cattle weight tape?


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## thailand (Feb 8, 2016)

Goatgirl, I'd love to see a photo of your Alpine girl


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## babsbag (Feb 9, 2016)

I do my bo-se SQ; it says you can do either. My vet tells me that the only difference is that IM is absorbed faster. But that being said I know that Lutalyse (hormone) has to be done IM. I agree with you though, I do SQ for everything that I can. 

I believe that the tapes are different for cattle than they are for goats. But try this link.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/know-how_Goat-Care_how-to-calculate-sheep-or-goat-weight

I would guess that your girl weighs about 120 lbs when she is not pregnant.


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## thailand (Feb 9, 2016)

Ha!  Thanks Babsbag.  I've just checked out that weight calculator and been and measured her.  Super cool!   So it works out she is 110.25 lbs (but that is her current pregnant weight).  Do you think she is too skinny then??  I have been thinking lately that she looks very bony and she's eating like there is no tomorrow.  I have been giving her a bit of grain, as well as hay and tons of browse...but I'm thinking maybe I should increase the grain a bit?

I was told she would be due around end of January/beginning of February.  Well, that time is passing.....just don't have a clue then when she will kid.


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## thailand (Feb 9, 2016)

Hey guys,

I need your help please.  Today I went looking for Ivomec for worming Khaleesi.  What I found was Ivomec-F.  Does anyone know if this is ok for pregnant goats?  The people I bought her from have told me that this will be ok for her, but I want to be super sure!  Googling Ivomec-F, it appears that it is the same as Ivomec Plus which I've read is a no-no for pregnancy??

I will hold off buying until I hear the wisdom of others here.  Thanks


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 9, 2016)

thailand said:


> Yaay, a kidding buddy!
> 
> As I'm a very new goat owner, sum total of almost 3 months....can I please ask you, Goatgirl, what are you feeding your girl right now?



I'm feeding her a mixture of alfalfa hay, alfalfa pellets, BOSS (black oil sunflower seeds), coconut flakes, kelp, and a little bit of grain. It is all organic, and I only feed her a couple cups once a day, total.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 9, 2016)

Here is a picture of my Alpine, Clover. I have kidding thread for her, too.  

Here it is: http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/clovers-kidding-thread-d.32503/


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## thailand (Feb 9, 2016)

Clover is beautiful    And I totally love her name!  Her tummy looks about the same size as Khaleesi's too.

Coconut flakes...hmmm...there's a good idea.  I can most likely get those quite cheaply here.  I'll have to see what I can find.  Thanks for the response about what you're feeding Clover.  I do worry about what I feed Khaleesi (whether it's enough mostly).  So, you're mixing the alfalfa pellets/coconut flakes/BOSS/kelp & grain together first, then feeding her 2 cups of that right?  I assume the alfalfa hay is free feeding?

 Khaleesi is browsing weeds etc. for about 2 hours a day, free feed pangola hay (with a couple handfuls of Timothy and Alfalfa thrown in some days), occasionally some BOSS, and about 1 1/2 cups of grain (could only get 21% dairy cow).  But she is always so ravenous and looking very bony around her back at the moment.  I might add an extra 1/2 of grain and look into the coconut flakes.

I'm hoping someone will reply to my question about Ivomec-F


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## babsbag (Feb 9, 2016)

It does appear that Ivomec-F is the same as Plus and as far as safety some say yes and some say no. I  probably wouldn't worm her until she kids anyways as I personally don't like worming, it really is poison no matter how much they need it. JMHO.  If her eye membranes are nice and pink then I would just wait.  There will be a milk withholding time too and it won't likely say what it is for goats, just for cows. 

It is hard to say if she is skinny as all goats have a little different build. I have some BIG alpines, and some petite ones, and none of them are skinny but they certainly weigh different amounts. A fat goat will has a higher chance of a difficult birth so just go easy on the grain and be prepared to fatten her up when she freshens.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 10, 2016)

thailand said:


> Clover is beautiful    And I totally love her name!  Her tummy looks about the same size as Khaleesi's too.
> 
> Coconut flakes...hmmm...there's a good idea.  I can most likely get those quite cheaply here.  I'll have to see what I can find.  Thanks for the response about what you're feeding Clover.  I do worry about what I feed Khaleesi (whether it's enough mostly).  So, you're mixing the alfalfa pellets/coconut flakes/BOSS/kelp & grain together first, then feeding her 2 cups of that right?  I assume the alfalfa hay is free feeding?
> 
> ...



Thank you! 

Yes, I mix it all together first, and the alfalfa hay is mixed in as well. She has regular free-choice hay and grass (and some woods in her pasture), but if I gave her alfalfa hay free-choice, she would pig out on it.


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## thailand (Feb 11, 2016)

Goatgirl....the alfalfa pellets in your mix....is that the same as rabbit pellets?  I know those are alfalfa.


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## lynordb (Feb 11, 2016)

I wonder if the DE as they call it, mine is Red Lake Earth, and wonder if it is safe for worming her? Don't know what it's called there, but it appears to be some type of white or grey (mine is grey) volcano ash and dirt from United kingdom from what I can learn, and supposed to be safe for even humans to consume, but can be used on just about any animal on the farm too? Anyone's thought?


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## sadieml (Feb 11, 2016)

I posted this same info and the DE thread, but thought I'd simplify things but putting it here also.

*Diatomaceous Earth* is a fossilized deposit of microscopic shells created by one celled plants called Diatoms. These plants inhabit all the waters of the earth, and serve as the basic food for aquatic life, just as grass is the basic food for land animals.

Also visit these links for more info: http://perma-guard.com/fossil-shell-flour.html
http://perma-guard.com/fossil-shell-flour.html

BTW - I am merely a consumer myself, I do not work for Perma-Guard or anybody else. Just thought I should tell you that. I just happen to think its a worthwhile product.


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## thailand (Feb 13, 2016)

Today was a productive day.  We finally got her fenced area finished!  Now.....if she would just have her kids!!!  Arrgh....I think she just enjoys being pregnant.  Is it possible for a goat to be forever pregnant and never kid??!  

Had chicks hatch yesterday and today....out of 12 only 4 made it , and one of the four seems to have dislocated tendons on both legs.  Little one can't stand or walk.  I've got both legs bandaged and Miss 12 & I have made a chick chair out of a yoghurt container.  Here's hoping that in a couple days time chickie will be good as new .


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## goats&moregoats (Feb 13, 2016)

reading, watching & waiting. Good luck!


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 13, 2016)

Congrats on getting the goat fencing done! I'm sure that must be exciting!! 

Aww!  Sorry the other 8 chicks didn't make it!  Hope the little one recovers! Congrats on the four that made it!!


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## Latestarter (Feb 20, 2016)




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## thailand (Feb 20, 2016)

Hi, we're all trying to stay patient waiting for kidding time.  For the last 2 days she has had swollen feet.  Should I be worried about this?  She is still eating really well, drinking good, peeing and pooping heaps, but is getting tired and wanting to sit down a lot.  It's the swollen feet that worries me....pregnancy toxaemia??  Would love your input please.  Not sure if I could find a goat vet here in Thailand....so you my friends, may be my only help


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## babsbag (Feb 20, 2016)

Goats...   I had to Google this one to remember what I had read. 

She most likely has what is called PERIPARTURIENT EDEMA

I just copied and pasted from 
http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/periparturientedema.html

_Usually occurring during the last six weeks of a doe's pregnancy, periparturient edema is a very uncomfortable swelling and irritation caused by fluid accumulation within the tissues underneath the skin.


The first indication is usually the doe's walking as if her feet hurt, followed by a gradual swelling in the lower part of her front legs and progressing to the lower half of her rear legs. Initial symptoms are so generalized that the producer can mistakenly diagnose laminitis/founder.


Unlike ketosis or other pregnancy-related diseases, periparturient edema does not cause the doe to go off-feed. She will be listless, preferring to sit rather than stand because walking is painful, but she will continue to eat. Moaning, groaning, and grinding of teeth are common symptoms.


Periparturient edema usually appears in a doe that is carrying multiple large fetuses. She may have kidded before without similar problems and she may never have it again in future pregnancies. The fetuses are taking more out of her body than she can replace, putting her in a nutritional deficit condition. Edema is accompanied by increased blood pressure, decreases in blood proteins, and blockages in the body's lymph system (one of the body's main filtration mechanisms).


First step in diagnosis is to do fecals to check for worms because a heavy wormload can bring on periparturient edema. Even if she has been recently dewormed, deworm the doe again. Do not use Valbazen or Safeguard/Panacur dewormers.


Supportive care is about all the producer can do to help a doe with periparturient edema. Keep her as comfortable as possible, make her get up and walk short distances several times a day, and provide her with proper nutrition. No special supplement or diet is required. Definitely do not dramatically change her diet.


When kidding (parturition) occurs, the producer must be available and ready to help the doe stand to feed her kids during their first 48 hours of life. After that timeframe, the swelling should begin to go away and standing won't be difficult for her. Milk production should not be affected by this illness._


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 20, 2016)

thailand said:


> Goatgirl....the alfalfa pellets in your mix....is that the same as rabbit pellets?  I know those are alfalfa.



I'm so sorry, I never saw this.   If the rabbit pellets are %100 alfalfa, then I guess they are the same. We've never bought rabbit alfalfa pellets, just the 50# bags from New Country Organics.


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## thailand (Feb 20, 2016)

Thanks Babsbag and Goatgirl    The 'grain' I've been feeding is 21% dairy cow.  1 cup a day.  Is that likely part of the problem and if you think it's still ok to feed this, should I 'cut' it with something like corn (how you do for chickens to lower the protein)?

I will try to post photos of her today.  Maybe you can tell how far away she is from kidding now?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 20, 2016)

Have you checked her ligaments?

I don't know about the dairy cow food...


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## thailand (Feb 20, 2016)

Quick update:  Just been and checked on her this morning (now 7:50am) and she is standing up in her shed.  The swelling seems a little less.  Checked her ligaments - and they are soooo soft they are all but gone!!  Yaay!   Hopefully kidding soon now??


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## babsbag (Feb 20, 2016)

Don't give her corn, corn is bad stuff for goats. That is why it is so important that goats never get into chicken feed. Too much corn will make them very sick. Actually too much grain will make them very sick too. The 21% is fine, if you want to you can cut the amount that you give her and give her more hay.


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## thailand (Feb 20, 2016)

Ok, thanks Babs.  By 'cut' then you mean just half the amount I've been giving her...so 1/2 cup instead of 1 cup?  I've stayed home from church this morning to look after her.  DH and 9 kids are hopefully picking up some alfalfa and timothy hay on the way home.

Seriously soft ligaments = kidding today/tomorrow?

Do I dare worm her now then, or can I afford to wait?  I can get Ivermectin-F, not ordinary Ivermectin, which is why I've been wanting to wait until she kids first.  Should that still be my game plan?


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## thailand (Feb 21, 2016)

Yesterday and today she's been pawing the ground heaps and then laying down.  This afternoon there is a big glob of clear goo.  I've been making her go for walks to help her swollen feet and she seems fine.  I feel sure she will be kidding soon.  

Still haven't taken updated photos of her.  Will do so and post here soon.


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## sadieml (Feb 21, 2016)

It comes as no surprise to me that you are proving to be an excellent Mom to Khaleesi.  Your care and concern are terrific.  I have no doubt that with you by her side, she will be well-delivered soon, and bounce right back from her swollen feet.  Seriously soft ligs should mean babies VERY soon, and the walks are great for her feet.  I'm betting on twins for Khaleesi, 2 doelings, or 1 of each.  We seem to be leaning toward girls this season.


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## thailand (Feb 21, 2016)

Thanks sadieml, what kind words  .  Sure am trying to be a good goat mom!

Here's the photos I took yesterday afternoon:
[URL='http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_170115_zpsymphneop.jpg.html']
	
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[URL='http://[URL=http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_170242_zpscdjos4ha.jpg.html][IMG]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/angelathailand/20160221_170242_zpscdjos4ha.jpg[/IMG][/URL]'][URL='http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_170242_zpscdjos4ha.jpg.html']
	
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[URL='http://[URL=http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_170447_zpsvuuaoh1c.jpg.html][IMG]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/angelathailand/20160221_170447_zpsvuuaoh1c.jpg[/IMG][/URL]'][URL='http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_170447_zpsvuuaoh1c.jpg.html']
	
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[URL='http://[URL=http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_171109_zpsz1q2uhn2.jpg.html][IMG]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/angelathailand/20160221_171109_zpsz1q2uhn2.jpg[/IMG][/URL]'][URL='http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_171109_zpsz1q2uhn2.jpg.html']
	
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[URL='http://[URL=http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_171119_zpsrzdfcqhw.jpg.html][IMG]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/angelathailand/20160221_171119_zpsrzdfcqhw.jpg[/IMG][/URL]'][URL='http://s668.photobucket.com/user/angelathailand/media/20160221_171119_zpsrzdfcqhw.jpg.html']
	
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With her feet - is this maybe just what I see others calling 'posty' feet?[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]


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## thailand (Feb 23, 2016)

SHE'S HAD HER BABIES!!!!!
Very calmly and with no fuss at all Khaleesi kidded this morning at around midday.  Textbook birth!  And guess what she had - a boy and a girl!  So happy!!!  Will try to upload a photo.


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## babsbag (Feb 23, 2016)

I was hoping that it would be soon and text book is the best. The kids are adorable of course and so different in color; no problem telling them apart.  

Give that mom a hug and a big flake of hay.  Good job.


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## thailand (Feb 23, 2016)

Thanks....I'm smiling from ear to ear!


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## norseofcourse (Feb 23, 2016)

Woohoo!!!  Cute little ones, and she looks very pleased with herself!  How many got to witness the births?


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## thailand (Feb 23, 2016)

Just me and my husband.  Unfortunately the 9 kids were in school...     But - I am pleased I didn't have to sit with her in the early hours of the morning!  Very decent of her.  She seriously just took it all in her stride.  Hardly a moan at all except for the final push for each kid.  The second one (white boy) arrived about 10 minutes after the little girl (black/white baby).  I've sat with them ALL day, and ensured that both babies are getting milk ok.

Oh my - I had my arms up to my elbows covered in amniotic fluid helping to ease them gently to the ground.  What an experience!  I would never have thought I could do this.     I want MORE babies now!!!  They are seriously the cutest things I think I've ever seen.

Photos below of their births and just shortly afterwards.  More most likely to follow tomorrow (if you can stand it LOL).

Hey - importantly now - feeding Khaleesi.  At the moment she is getting forage (tons) 2 x a day, all she can eat of Pangola hay, a handful or so of Alfalfa, every other day some BOSS, and sometimes some rice bran.  Very occasionally some buttermilk.  Every day 1 cup of 21% dairy cow grain.

How should this now change please to meet her new needs.  She's looking desperately thin after just kidding...guess that is normal.

Also, her coat is very rough (compared to the gorgeous silky coats of her newborns) and I suspect worms.  I can get Ivermec-F.  (Please note the 'F').  Is this ok to give to a lactating goat, how soon should I give it, and what is the dosage please? Oh and - will Ivomec-F be ok for the babies??

There will most definitely be other questions over the coming days.  This total newbie is feeling a little overwhelmed and needs some goat wisdom from the experts please.  

Thanks friends  
Listening and wanting to learn now  






Arya is born.  Our sweet little doeling!









Next to arrive: the little buckling












The whole family:


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## BlessedWithGoats (Feb 23, 2016)

Aww!! Congratulations!!


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## Pamela (Feb 23, 2016)

Those are great pictures!


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## samssimonsays (Feb 23, 2016)

Congrats!!! SO exciting!


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## Hens and Roos (Feb 23, 2016)

Congrats!


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 23, 2016)

That's awesome - so glad it went smoothly!


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## Latestarter (Feb 23, 2016)

That is simply fantastic!  Couldn't have asked for a better outcome! I can "see" the smile on your face  Now the adventure continues and expands! Thanks for sharing the pics. Momma looks like she's an old pro at this. Congrats!


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 23, 2016)

Comgrats


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Feb 23, 2016)

That's terrific news! Congratulations!


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 23, 2016)

That's wonderful! Congratulations on the healthy twins!  What is your plan for them? 

Waiting for dry kid pictures....


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## luvmypets (Feb 23, 2016)

Oh man, you goaties sure know how to torture a sheeple with kid pics 


Congrats! So exciting isn't it, love them they are precious


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 23, 2016)

You need to get a few goats, @luvmypets.  You'd love 'em! (I have two little doelings for you, and they will be ready to go to their new home in a couple months! )


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## luvmypets (Feb 23, 2016)

Goatgirl47 said:


> You need to get a few goats, @luvmypets.  You'd love 'em! (I have two little doelings for you, and they will be ready to go to their new home in a couple months! )


Well I would have to convince my dad, and I have tried. I REALLY want some milkers like Nubians or Lamanchas, but only time will tell. I would love your doelings, if only you lived closer


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## babsbag (Feb 23, 2016)

I up my goat's grain after kidding if I am milking them. If they are raising their kids and I am not milking as well they only get extra hay and I don't worry about grain at all.  But for most goats, grain makes milk.  

As far as worming it should be fine to do that now. Have you checked her eye lids? Are they pale or nice and pink?  The wormer will be fine for the kids; the milk withdrawal if you are drinking the milk looks to be about 48 hours. Now that is assuming that the Ivermec F is the same or similar to Ivermec Plus.

A rough coat can also be a mineral deficiency, did you ever find minerals for her?


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## thailand (Feb 23, 2016)

Hi Babsbag

Yes I have been giving her a mix of different vitamins/minerals for a couple months now.  I've also just started mixing in a bit of powdered kelp too.

Thanks for the wisdom on worming.  I'd like to confirm somehow that Ivomec F is the same as Ivomec Plus.  I haven't been able to confirm that so far.  Anyone else know anything about Ivomec F?  And I don't need to worm the kids for a week or so, correct?

I my goodness they are darlings!  I've just come inside from having cuddles with them.  Khaleesi doesn't mind in the slightest.  (Hope this doesn't sound too loopy...but while I was holding them Khaleesi and I were kissing them at the same time).  Oh gosh..that sounds like I've gone nuts doesn't it.  

Hey, they are just on 24 hours old now and it's a brilliant sunny and very hot day.  They're panting a bit inside the goat shed.  Just how soon is it ok to let them outside?  I would put them in the enclosed goat pen outside.  There is a little bit of grass, and Khaleesi's poops.  Would that be a problem?


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## babsbag (Feb 24, 2016)

I can't confirm that they are the same drug but they appear to have the same ingredients. I don't think the F is sold here. I hate to worm animals just because the clock says that I should. I don't have a worm problem here so I have never wormed a kid, but I believe that many people start at 3 weeks. The kids can go outside any time you are ready, I used to birth my kids outside and they just grew up with the herd. Now I use kidding pens as I have too many goats to keep track of and many of the kids look the same and I want to know who they belong to. Life was simple when I had 3 goats. 

You need to think about cocci prevention for them at 3 weeks.

Here is a good resource that I came across, some of it won't apply since you aren't bottle raising. Spend as much time as you can handling the kids so they will be friendly and get your kids involved too; the more the merrier. 

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f28/kid-management-birth-till-kidding-kid-management-17520/

Maybe you should get your microscope and learn to do fecals to check for worms. 

The minerals that goats seem to lack the most are copper, selenium, and zinc. Here we can get a blood test done for those, (a liver biopsy would be more accurate, but can't do that on a live goat)  not sure how you would get a test done.  I think that goats in the USA are the forgotten livestock and then I read your posts and I realize that we aren't as forgotten as we could be. 

More pictures are always welcomed.


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## sadieml (Feb 24, 2016)

Wonderful, Khaleesi!   She did such a good job.  BEAUTIFUL babies, easy to tell apart AND timed just right for you and DH.  She is so considerate.   Also, there you are proving what a caring goatie mom you are by checking on all the little details right away.  

What do your 9 kids think of Khaleesi's kids?  Love at first sight, right?  Nothing in the world like baby goaties.  Our boys were 3 days before we met them, but my heart melted like a goat in rain.  They are incredible.  God intended us to have goats in our lives and I truly believe that is what leads to the innate bond between goaties (people) and their kids (goats).  It is truly "meant to be".
How do you plan to do the milking?  Lots of people start off by taking the babies away at night and milking 1st thing in the AM, then leaving the babies with MaaMaa all day.  That just means one bottle daily.  As they get older, to prevent her milk from dropping off you'll want to take them away altogether and milk AM and PM.  That is presuming you want her milk for your family.  @babsbag, @Southern by choice, @Goat Whisperer, and others can tell you when it is best to transition.  I am still a noob and, therefore, still learning also.  I am so happy for you and just a little jealous.  I am still sooo impatient for does and babies.  Hopefully it won't be too long.  We're studding in a few weeks.  Hope Jaeger is ready!  I know I am!  I really must remember, God's timing is always PERFECT.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 24, 2016)

I believe the Ivermectin F may be the PLUS... can you read the label it will say ivermectin and blah blah blah....

Ivermectin according to FARAD it is 5-7 days
Ivermectin PLUS (which I think is the F) is far longer I will check but I think 30-45 days.

this is for plain ivermectin according to dosage-
http://www.farad.org/WDILookup/DigestResults.asp


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## Southern by choice (Feb 24, 2016)

Yeah pretty sure the F is for Flukes trearment when I am looking it up... which means it may have Clorsulon)

Ok just foundit .. IT IS ivermectin PLUS.... whole different withdrawal... stilllooking it up... it is a LONG time!

Can't find it in approved you could submit a request.


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## thailand (Feb 24, 2016)

Thanks especially to Southern for all your sleuthing on my behalf.  I've just done some researching myself and it seems there are some out there that say Ivermec + (F) shouldn't be given orally to goats as can cause death!  Now I'm worried!  If not this medication, then what else could I use?  I'm loathe to inject anything (just because I'm too scared to as never had to inject any animal before...I know, I know, I really need to get over this).  I'd much prefer to give something orally if possible.  Thoughts?


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## Southern by choice (Feb 24, 2016)

We all give ivermectin orally. It is safest way for goats.
Ivermectin in the states is off label for goats so must be under the supervision of a vet anyway.

Occasionally a breeder may inject but it is usually given orally.

Is there a way you can snap a picture of the instructions from the box?

 I am perplexed  

Oh and BTW- I thought I had already posted...  

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 a doe and a buck! Woo HOO!


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## babsbag (Feb 24, 2016)

There is a big difference in everything I read as far as giving Ivermectin  orally or SQ and withdrawal time. One drug residue prevention manual says that plain Ivermectin is 35 days if SQ and Ivermectin with Clorsulon is 49 days.  But FARAD says that Ivemectin is only 9 days for milk if given orally so does that mean that Clorsulon would be about 12 days if given orally? Of course I know that my logic is too simple. 

I can't find anything that says that Clorsulon is even approved for lactating cattle so @Southern by choice you are a better sleuth than I am. 

But I found this... The half life of Clorsulon is measured in hours in sheep and goats if given SQ or IV. 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1433492

I did find an article about elephants with this reference... _a mixture of 1% ivermectin and 10% Clorsulon (Ivomec – F)..._


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## Southern by choice (Feb 24, 2016)

babsbag said:


> There is a big difference in everything I read as far as giving Ivermectin  orally or SQ and withdrawal time. One drug residue prevention manual says that plain Ivermectin is 35 days if SQ and Ivermectin with Clorsulon is 49 days.  But FARAD says that Ivemectin is only 9 days for milk if given orally so does that mean that Clorsulon would be about 12 days if given orally? Of course I know that my logic is too simple.
> 
> I can't find anything that says that Clorsulon is even approved for lactating cattle so @Southern by choice you are a better sleuth than I am.
> 
> ...



Oh Babs you are rotten... you know I LOVE stuff like this and it stinks as I have no time to look into this buttttt it will be another thing worth eventually exploring! 

@thailand 
I think it may be best to submit to FARAD and explain where you are and how you are just trying to find out what you can do... they may help you.


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## thailand (Feb 24, 2016)

Ok Southern, thanks, will do.  Someone here in Thailand who is raising goats has just confirmed a moment ago that they give Ivomec F orally to lactating goats or Kelemectin 1%.  I will however message FARAD....thanks for the link


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## Southern by choice (Feb 24, 2016)

Great for you to find others in Thailand to help you! That is a blessing indeed!


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## thailand (Feb 24, 2016)

ok, there's a problem with trying to send a message to FARAD.  I need a valid 10 digit phone number for their contact form.  Nothing I enter is satisfactory.  Can anyone help with this please?


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## thailand (Feb 26, 2016)

New names for Khaleesi's babies.....

The buckling will be called Jabari, and the doeling Aaliyah.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 26, 2016)

Beautiful names!


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 26, 2016)

Great names!

Will you be milking Khaleesi?


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## thailand (Feb 26, 2016)

Thanks everyone....my family have looked at me a little strangely LOL....I just have a 'thing' for African sounding names for goats at the moment.  

Yes, I hope to milk Khaleesi.  I've never milked a goat before (or anything else for that matter).  Guess I can find some instructions on YouTube.  I also thinking to leave the babies on her fulltime for 3-4 weeks.  I don't know that she is much of a milking goat.  Her udder isn't that big really and I want to make sure her babies get first dibs.  Khaleesi was bred to a Saanen buck so hopefully Aaliyah will be more of a milking goat in the future.

While everyone's online at the moment, I have a question please.  If I keep Jabari, can I breed him back to Khaleesi later on?  I can't breed him to his sister Aaliyah though right?


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 26, 2016)

I wouldn't breed him to Khaleesi, as he's her offspring. Or Aaliyah. I guess you'll have to bring Khaleesi to a breeder to get her bred again?  And if you want to keep Jabari, you should wether him. 

I just started milking Clover (her kids are 16 days old now) and separating her kids at night, then milking her in the morning. They get to spend all day together. 
I have milked her twice already (yesterday and today) and I got a little less then two cups yesterday, and today I got 2 1/3 cups.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 26, 2016)

I'm going to go against the grain and say that it's ok to breed mother to son.  I wouldn't breed full siblings though.  You'll hear lots of different ideas on the subject from lots of different folks.


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## Latestarter (Feb 26, 2016)

Many folks do line breeding mother/son, father/daughter, cousins, 1/2 sibs, etc. "Most" say don't breed full sibs, though you'll find some who have done/will do that as well (though normally it's only to produce terminal offspring-butcher/meat). And off course accidents can happen as well. Male goats become "capable" as early as 3-4 months... just so you're aware


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## babsbag (Feb 26, 2016)

I breed father to daughter quite often.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 26, 2016)

babsbag said:


> I breed father to daughter quite often.


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## thailand (Feb 26, 2016)

Ok, thanks for the replies.  It would seem a shame to wether Jabari with him being 1/2 Saanen.  (Various goat breeds are not easy to find here).  I think I'll keep him as a buck and use him with Khaleesi at least.  Finding a buck to 'borrow' for Aaliyah might prove very difficult....but we'll cross that path when we get to it.

Still haven't wormed Khaleesi    I going to go into town today and try to find ordinary Ivomec if I can...if not then guess I'll get Ivomec-F (Plus).  Also better try to source some CD&T. (In a few weeks time I'll need help with how to inject the babies, but that can wait for now).


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 26, 2016)

Sounds good, although personally I wouldn't breed Jabari to Khaleesi. 

I am worse then you, Clover kidded 16 days ago and I STILL haven't wormed her! I did order a natural wormer today, and it should come sometime next week.


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## thailand (Feb 26, 2016)

Goatgirl, I SO appreciate what others are doing/not doing by way of worming etc.  I'm a TOTAL newbie and am just kinda 'stuck' in limbo at the moment with what I should do next.  Is it Molly's dewormer you have ordered?  I've been pondering going that route....but I can only imagine the cost of delivery to Thailand would be prohibitive.  You've perhaps spurred me into action and I think I'll at least contact them and make enquiries.

I haven't yet purchased a microscope to do my own fecals.  However, over the next 9 days there is a big agricultural fair at our local university here.  We're definitely going so I will see what info they might have to offer on goat husbandry.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 27, 2016)

Do they have fenbendazole 10% there? Brand name here is Safe-gard?

Molly's is fine for maintenance but will not get a high load reduced adequately and is* NOT *a dewormer.
It is used primarily as preventative but you want to use the product after the parasitic load has been dealt with first.

I simply cannot say it enough... as many farm calls as we have done and fecals run I just shake my head. 
So convinced their natural dewormer is great and I end up seeing EPG Counts att 1600- over 2000 and pale lids... 

KNOCK out the worm load FIRST then use the naturals but keep a close on on the lids... checking every month.


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## thailand (Feb 27, 2016)

Ok.  Yes, we can get Fenbendazole here.  Thanks Southern, that's what I'll use.  I'll buy some tomorrow on way home from church! 

I've really needed to get myself 'unstuck' on this de-worming topic!!!  THANK YOU!  

The previous owner was de-worming her monthly/every 2nd month.  From all my reading thus far, that is not the way to progress forward.

Oh - I'm learning so much..such a very steep learning curve.  

Has anyone heard of the Red Cotton Tree (genus Bombax, family: Malvaceae or Mallow family)?  Khaleesi has taken to sneaking at eating the fallen flowers during her browsing time!  So far it doesn't seem to be a problem, but always good to check with you guys.


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## Goatgirl47 (Feb 27, 2016)

thailand said:


> Goatgirl, I SO appreciate what others are doing/not doing by way of worming etc.  I'm a TOTAL newbie and am just kinda 'stuck' in limbo at the moment with what I should do next.  Is it Molly's dewormer you have ordered?  I've been pondering going that route....but I can only imagine the cost of delivery to Thailand would be prohibitive.  You've perhaps spurred me into action and I think I'll at least contact them and make enquiries.
> 
> I haven't yet purchased a microscope to do my own fecals.  However, over the next 9 days there is a big agricultural fair at our local university here.  We're definitely going so I will see what info they might have to offer on goat husbandry.



Yes I ordered from Molly's Herbals, this is what I got for the goats.


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## sadieml (Feb 28, 2016)

Well, I tried to get some info on the Ivermectin from the manufacturer and this is what I received from them:

Your message
Is ivermectin F safe for goats, and if so what would be the dosage, milk withhold and usage recommendation post-kidding?

RE: Aspen






AHI - Info Aspen

To: sadieml
Wed 2/24/2016 5:53 PM

Hi Lesa
Our product is not labeled for goats so we are unable to give you medical advice for you animals.  We suggest you contact your local licensed veterinarian.

Thank You!

I really hate drug companies, but they are what they are.  So sorry I couldn't help at all.


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## sadieml (Feb 28, 2016)

BTW -  I am a beginner, also, @thailand but I am trying to get lots of info so that when decisions present themselves, I can make informed choices.  I know that a lot of folks don't like line breeding, but mother/son and father/daughter is generally considered safe.  Remember that animals and people are not the same, so it isn't a moral issue, just a practical one, and sometimes there is no choice.  I don't blame you for wanting to hold on to the Saanen blood.  Brother and sister are not a good breeding pair because they share all of their genes, not just half like parent and child.  Since it's best to wait until sometime after 12 mos before breeding does, you have time to seek an acceptable buck for Aaliyah.  Since, as @Latestarter pointed out, males are potent quite early (pygmies as early as 6 weeks), you'll want to separate Jabari from Aaliyah as she approaches maturity.  Maybe you can work a deal with someone to stud for you in exchange for a kid.  Also, you will probably want to keep your next buckling and wether him to be Jabari's companion. Of course, these are all eventualities, since your kids are so new.  For now, try to enjoy things.  It always passes too quickly.


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## thailand (Feb 28, 2016)

Aargh....so annoying yeah! 

Well, I think my plan will be this:

Khaleesi
Fenbendazole 10%, and then 10 days later Ivomec-F.

Also looking at blousing her and giving her CDT.  Previous owner warned me that I should vaccinate her against foot & mouth disease also as we have a lot of cows in properties backing ours.  Not sure what I need for that, will have to make enquiries at feedstore.

Kids
CDT 2cc nowish and then at 4-5 weeks old.
        also at 3 weeks old start cocci prevention.

Does that sound ok?  CDT is injected in both doe and kids yes?

Do I need to vaccinate for foot & mouth disease for kids too?

Here's a video and some photos taken recently of the kids  


















<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IxT6HR9S3E8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## sadieml (Feb 28, 2016)

Thanks for the pics and video!  They are sooo beautiful.  I am so impatient, I really want babies.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 29, 2016)

The kids are looking great!

Weren't you going to be milking her?  From some posts here and what I've read elsewhere, the Ivomec-F looks to have a long milk withdrawal time, like nearly two months.  Maybe you could get a fecal test done a week after the fenbendazole, to see how effective it was?


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## thailand (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, totally agree with you about getting a fecal test done.  Unfortunately, the vets here are not at a western standard and don't appear to know what a fecal test is!  (Tried getting one done already and paid through the nose for nothing!!!).

And yes, we are wanting to milk her.  I figure let the kids have her for 3 weeks and then we'll start getting our share.

Ive been reading elsewhere that dairy goats really need alfalfa high and the calcium it provides to be good producers of milk.  The only alfalfa I can get here is in little packets in the pet shops.  Are there any really good alternatives to alfalfa hay?

And - I was told by the previous owner of Khaleesi that she is half Thai goat and half Alpine.  Question - Aaliyah, does she look Alpine to you? (Thinking this side of her breeding is showing).  Her dad is a Saanen.  I'm wondering if she looks for Toggenburg?  Would love to hear other's opinions on this.


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## thailand (Feb 29, 2016)

Hey guys, I noticed something today.  Don't know if this is normal or not?

Khaleesi absolutely WILL NOT let me touch her udder.  Not under any circumstances.  Also, she occasionally is not letting her kids suck either.  Is this trouble brewing?  How am I meant to eventually start milking her if she's doin backflips to get away from me touching her?  My 'loving, mommie's baby' goat has become very unaffectionate!


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## Latestarter (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks for the pics and the video. They are just adorable! I can't address your other questions.


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## babsbag (Feb 29, 2016)

Aaliyah looks very Alpine to me and I have many many Alpines. She is adorable BTW; they both are. Love me some baby goats.

As far as her not letting the kids nurse that is pretty normal. She will let them nurse and then kick them off, I see it all of the time in my herd. As long as it isn't happening all of the time I wouldn't be too worried. 

Now you milking her, that is entirely another story. If she hasn't been milked before you have a tough road ahead of you. All you can do is tie her to the milk stand and get some hobbles for those back legs. Not fun at all but doable if you have the patience of a saint. Giving them grain on the milk stand helps. But if you are worried that she might have a problem like mastitis then you need to get her tied up and milked out and make sure it looks normal.

I think that your Pangola hay is almost as good as alfalfa. She is getting the higher protein grain too so I think you should be fine. 

I have seen some sites that give a really low milk withdrawal time for the Ivermectin Plus, like 48 hours. And then I see others that say longer but the truth is that no withdrawal time has been established in goats or cattle so we are on our own. When I am using a product for my own use I don't worry about it too much, as long as the wormer is not toxic to people.


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## norseofcourse (Feb 29, 2016)

thailand said:


> Hey guys, I noticed something today.  Don't know if this is normal or not?
> 
> Khaleesi absolutely WILL NOT let me touch her udder.  Not under any circumstances.  Also, she occasionally is not letting her kids suck either.  Is this trouble brewing?  How am I meant to eventually start milking her if she's doin backflips to get away from me touching her?  My 'loving, mommie's baby' goat has become very unaffectionate!


I agree with babsbag to make sure it's not mastitis.

I have sheep, but I'll tell you my experiences.  I've had some ewes that would stand there all day and let their lambs nurse.  I also have Rose.  Rose would let her twins last year nurse - but not anytime they wanted.  And when she did let them nurse, I could almost time it.  They'd get from 8 to 10 seconds, and that was it, till the next time Rose let them.  Her lambs were the biggest, too - I think they learned to drink *really fast* since it was never for long!

As far as milking, some have been easier than others.  I kept the first ewe lamb born here, Brosa.  I was there for her birth, and handled her before she was even dry.  She is very friendly to me, loves being petted, and I could touch her anywhere.  I figured she would be easy to milk when the time came.  Boy did I figure wrong!

Getting her on the milk stand wasn't hard, but once I tried touching that udder - kick! stomp! kick! stomp!  My sweet little Brosa had turned into a wild sheep!  That milk was meant for her lamb, and danged if she was going to let me have any of it!  I have a milking thread somewhere where I wrote about it.  I got good advice, stuck to it, and eventually they all settled down for milking, more or less.  I am looking forward to it again this year.

You can do it too!  Hopefully she doesn't have mastitis and it's just a matter of working with her.  Good luck!


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## thailand (Feb 29, 2016)

Thanks Babsbag for the confirmation.  So it's correct then about the Alpine breeding    Hopefully she will eventually be a good milker for me.

I don't have a milk stand yet....so many projects on the go at the moment.  But, I have tried giving her grain while trying to touch her udder.  She tries to bite me!  I know the previous owner would take all the newborn kids away (think the day they were born), don't know if that history is interferring in some way?  But, she would be milked as normal, so she should be used to it.  I'll have to find some hobbles on ebay and get them sent over.

The kids seem ok.  No one is crying because they're hungry.  Maybe they've learnt to eat fast too.

The Pangola hay is very brown and it's entirely stalks, no leaves etc.  Will this still be ok you think?

Norseofcourse, thanks for your post.  It's helpful to hear what others have experienced.  I'll keep a check on Khaleesi that she doesn't have mastitis starting.  And, I'll have to find your thread about Brosa and get some good tips.


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## Goatgirl47 (Mar 1, 2016)

Clover lets her kids nurse for maybe 10, 20, or 30 seconds at a time. But they nurse frequently.  Aaliyah's coloring is beautiful! I love their wattles, too. They are both so cute. 

That's strange that Khaleesi won't let you touch her udder since her previous owner milked her.

Some of our cows we have bought from different dairy farms, and their previous calves were always taken away either right when they were born, or when they were 1-3 days old. When they (the new cows) would have their calves soon after we purchased them (we have bought three cows so far from three different dairy's, and all three had been bred before we bought 'em) they would let us touch their udder, teats, and milk them with machine or hand. And we always let our cows raise their calves for a year.


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## thailand (Mar 2, 2016)

This is the Fenbendazole I picked up yesterday.  It's a powder to be added to water.  Can anyone help me with a dosage please?





Southern - they didn't have Fenbendazole 10%, only this one at 4%.  Can I make this work?  I also picked up some Kelamectin 1% (thinking to dose with this after the Fenbendazole in 2 weeks time).


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## Latestarter (Mar 2, 2016)

Here's what I could find:

"*Composition: *Fenbendazole 4,0 % m/m.

*Dosage and route of administration: *The Panacur powder is incorporated directly into the feed at the recommended dosage rate as per the dosage instructions.
Sheep must be inoculated against pulpy kidney
Cattle, Pigs, Sheep and Goats - Roundworm: 5 mg active ingredient/kg body mass i.e. 1,25 g Panacur 4 % Powder / 10 kg body mass.
Sheep and Goats - Milk Tapeworm: 10 mg active ingredient/kg body mass i.e. 2,50 g Panacur 4 % Powder / 10 kg body mass."     FROM: http://www.grovet.com/panacur-powder-4-5-kg.html

Also, see:

http://www.msd-animal-health.co.za/products/panacur__4__powder/020_product_details.aspx

For general guidelines for several dewormers:

http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/training/GoatDewormerChart.pdf


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## thailand (Mar 4, 2016)

Hello again.  Well I'm now thinking I might just give the Kelamectin 1%.  I've worked out her weight according to Fias Farm at 84 pounds.  So am I correct that the dosage for her is 3.8cc (working on 1cc per 22 lbs)?

Can I mix this with something like banana (which she loves), or must it be shot down her throat?

Also - I think she might have lice as she's rubbing herself along fence lines a LOT, and both her and the kids are shaking their heads some.  Will Kelemectin given orally for worms also kill lice this way at the same time?  As well, she has had a clear runny nose for a while.  Doesn't seem to have developed into anything though.  Might this be a problem?

Thanks


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## sadieml (Mar 4, 2016)

I'm sure someone will probably wanna smack me  for saying this (sorry Southern), but lightly dusting with Diatomaceous Earth (not pool grade, use ONLY food grade or, in a pinch, pharmaceutical grade) works great for lice.  Our dogs had a huge problem with lice (basically mange), and they are doing worlds better.  I tried vet recommended shampoos and they didn't help at all, the DE did.


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## sadieml (Mar 4, 2016)

I'm sure someone will probably wanna smack me  for saying this (sorry Southern), but lightly dusting with Diatomaceous Earth (not pool grade, use ONLY food grade or, in a pinch, pharmaceutical grade) works great for lice.  Our dogs had a huge problem with lice (basically mange), and they are doing worlds better.  I tried vet recommended shampoos and they didn't help at all, the DE did. 

edit to add:  sorry for the double post, don't know how to delete


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## thailand (Mar 4, 2016)

Thanks Sadieml, appreciate the advice.  However, we cannot get DE here


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## Latestarter (Mar 4, 2016)

I've heard that cat products for lice available at the store will work... I've also heard of folks dusting with Sevin dust.


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## thailand (Mar 4, 2016)

Thanks Latestarter.  Unfortunately I can't get Sevin Dust here either.  (Third world country in a lot of ways).  I can get a pyrethrin shampoo though that I've used with my dogs and chickens.  Would that be ok, giving the goats a bath?  Kids too?


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## Latestarter (Mar 4, 2016)

Absolutely! Please take video of the process  If it were cold I'd recommend blow drying the kids after their bath, but I doubt that's an issue you have to deal with. On the other hand, since adult goats seem to be allergic to water (read rain) for fear of melting, You can understand my desire to have you video your process/attempt to bathe Khaleesi


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## thailand (Mar 5, 2016)

LOL....I see  

Well perhaps I'd better wear my raincoat?  This sounds like it's gonna be fun. 

My dosage for Kelamectin is ok, right?


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## goats&moregoats (Mar 6, 2016)

Congrats on the successful kidding and adorable kids!!  Love the pics and video. 

Just got caught up on your thread. I use kitten flea powder to dust my goats. Doing so liberally and then one week later do again. Works great!


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## klarie curole (Mar 6, 2016)

I give my bottle babies a bath when there in my house they get used of it


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## Southern by choice (Mar 6, 2016)

sadieml said:


> I'm sure someone will probably wanna smack me  for saying this (sorry Southern), but lightly dusting with Diatomaceous Earth (not pool grade, use ONLY food grade or, in a pinch, pharmaceutical grade) works great for lice.  Our dogs had a huge problem with lice (basically mange), and they are doing worlds better.  I tried vet recommended shampoos and they didn't help at all, the DE did.



DE works great but it is not fast acting and takes far longer to get rid of the pesky critters. We use DE on straw/bedding more of as a preventative. Although that is our protocol this year we had creepy critters come in on straw... yep they can come in on your straw .  We avoid straw at all cost... we rather use low quality hay for this very reason. Alas this year we had to get straw and grrr mites. 

My issue with DE is more of a time thing. We do farm consultations and management evaluation... all I can say is people will battle and battle something because they don't want to use a "chemical" or a "de-wormer" and in the end so many goats are suffering needlessly. 
Goats so anemic they are on deaths door but ignorant owners feel it is cruel to give a dewormer or treat with permethrin... When you see this it makes you sick... dead animals because they MUST do all natural. Kids with lice/mites can get so anemic they die. DE does not effectively treat BURROWING mites.DE is great but sometimes it may not be enough.

People whose goats have bottle jaw and they do not act quick and say well I'll get a dewormer on the weekend... or next payday. 
I have had to hold my tongue a few times but some I have said well if you're gonna wait that long she'll probably be dead by then anyway so maybe you won't need it afterall.

Disbudded 2 week old kids of a friend and they already had mites! She had no idea....  often people don't notice til evidence is substantial and for a kid that can mean death. She acted fast, burned all bedding treated her 2 does and kids... fresh bedding and DE down.


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## thailand (Mar 6, 2016)

Still awaiting reply to my previous post guys    Holding off worming her till I can confirm the dosage.  Thanks  



thailand said:


> Hello again.  Well I'm now thinking I might just give the Kelamectin 1%.  I've worked out her weight according to Fias Farm at 84 pounds.  So am I correct that the dosage for her is 3.8cc (working on 1cc per 22 lbs)?
> 
> Can I mix this with something like banana (which she loves), or must it be shot down her throat?
> 
> ...


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## Southern by choice (May 7, 2016)

How are things? Haven't seen you around.


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## Ferguson K (May 7, 2016)




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## Latestarter (May 7, 2016)




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## sadieml (May 15, 2016)

@Southern by choice, @Goat Whisperer, @babsbag, et al,  can anyone answer Thailand's questions about worming that she repeated?  I don't know the answers, but I think the lack of response _may_ be the reason we haven't heard from her in a while.


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## babsbag (May 15, 2016)

I hope that she just got busy with the new kids and didn't leave because no one confirmed her dosage. The medication she is using is just something we don't even see in the US so I think we are a little hesitant to recommend what we don't know. 

IF that wormer is like Ivermectin then the dose I use is 1 cc / 40 lbs but I know that others use a higher dose.


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## Latestarter (May 15, 2016)

I don't think (hope) she would take a non answer as a personal affront... I would guess that she's just got her hands full with all the kids and the new animals and such. Hope she's doing well.


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## Goat Whisperer (May 16, 2016)

x2

Although nobody gave the dosage, several members did give great suggestions. Several told her that she needs to talk with the breeder and other breeders in her area. We don't live where she does, we shouldn't be expected to have every answer. 

I know others gave her the recommended dosage for the fenbendazole, and she said that She'll hold off for a while.


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## thailand (May 26, 2016)

Hi everyone  .  I'm back.  No, no offence taken AT ALL....oops, sorry, just been really busy.  The 9 kids had their long summer school break of 2  1/2 months.  You can imagine how draining that has been LOL.  (I have to keep reminding myself why I'm doing all this).

Anyway - the goaty kids are doing extremely well.  They are growing like weeds and are little chubby piggies!

This is just a quick note to say "hi".  I've got a bit on tomorrow, but I'll try to get back here asap and post some photos too.

But, just before I go, I have a question please.  Wondering if anyone else has this problem?  My silly goats keep jumping up and trying to stand in their feed bins attached to the wall and they've now broken several!!  What am I doing wrong?

Thanks friends.  Talk again tomorrow.


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## samssimonsays (May 26, 2016)

I had this too. I was suggested to take a cattle or hog panel and make a hoop over top of it so their heads go in but they cannot get on top of it. Thankfully I just sent my one who was doing that to a pet home so no more issues. Good luck and glad to hear from you again!


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## Latestarter (May 26, 2016)

Hello and welcome back! Good to hear that all is well. Not sure what type/style you're using for a feed bin... Are you talking about "feed" or hay? Could you perhaps show us a picture of what you're doing/what you mean?

If feed (pellets/grain), you could just as easily use a bucket on the ground for when that's provided to them, or a wall mounted feeding trough that is only wide enough for them to get their mouth in, but not stand in. If you're talking about hay, there are many different designs on the site that allow them to get their heads in to drag hay out to eat (generally from the side or even the bottom), but prevent them from being able to get on top of it or in it.  When you have the top open for loading, you'll want the opening high enough that they can't jump high enough to get into it.


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## sadieml (May 26, 2016)

LOVELY to hear from you!   I definitely understand being too busy to spend time on the "interwebs".  It has been like that around here lately, too.

I can't add anything worthwhile to what @Latestarter said.  If none of the remedies on the site are helpful, maybe some pics can help us help you come up with a solution.


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## Goat Whisperer (May 26, 2016)

Glad to hear from you! How is Khaleesi? Did you get her wormed? What did you use, this is good info that could help folks that are in the same situation as you!

About the feeder...sounds like goats being goats LOL


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## thailand (Jun 12, 2016)

Hi again...my goodness....I said I'd be back the following day and it just didn't happen.  No excuse for not keeping everyone up to date, just been super busy (re-newing visas, obtaining work permits, taking 2 of our boys to get registered with government for special needs education, oh and 2 days ago our 8 year old was stung by a scorpion)...

I've attached a video of the goats, and also some photos of the plastic feeders that I had attached with screws to the walls inside their 'shed'.  The goats have jumped on them and ripped them off the walls! (Babies actually, not Khaleesi).  I've changed to feeding them all out of individual bowls on the floor.  Of course the babies still stand all over those and so they probably won't last long.  They're such mischiefs!!!!!!!

I did end up worming Khaleesi with Kelemectin, and I gave the babies Baycox cocci prevention.

It appears that there really is very little in the way of medications/vaccinations available for goats here in Thailand.  I cannot get Coppasure, or most other things that are often recommended on this forum for the good health of goats.    Right now, we're just hoping that they will be ok without the extra supplements etc.  You can see from the video that they are really healthy.  Hopefully it'll stay that way.

At what point would you suggest that I separate Jabari (white boy) from Khaleesi and Aaliyah?

Hopefully this video link works  
[URL='http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv48/angelathailand/20160531_092113_zpsu9sorycr.mp4']
	
[/URL]


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## samssimonsays (Jun 30, 2016)

I wouldn't wait any longer than 4 months old to be safe. They recommend by 12 weeks in my area. My little man turns 4 months saturday and he is getting pulled as soon as we bring home his buddy Friday hopefully.


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## sadieml (Jul 3, 2016)

I know that Nigies and a couple other breeds are fertile as early as 6 weeks or so.  Also, the presence of a fertile male will make the does fertile, as well, but with rutting breeds I don't know much.  I think Sam is probably right.  I would go with 4 months max, unless you get better info from some of the more experienced crowd.  @Southern by choice, @Goat Whisperer, @babsbag, @Goatgirl47  what do you say?


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## Southern by choice (Jul 3, 2016)

Mine would be out of there by 10 weeks ( standard breed).
I left one in til 12 weeks once and man oh man was I nervous!
Nigerians and mini's are out by 8 weeks.


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## babsbag (Jul 3, 2016)

I on the other hand leave them together until the does start to cycle and in No. CA that is usually the end of August. But I have never had Nigis until this year and my mini bucklings are making me question my practice of leaving them together. The problem right now is that the only space I have for my bucks is with a standard Alpine and a standard Lamancha which will certainly bring trouble for the ND and the minis when rut starts in earnest in Sept.  I need more pens.


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## sadieml (Jul 14, 2016)

@babsbag if building another pen is an option, you might want to do it.  Nigies are sly little buggers, and can be fertile at 6 weeks.  Of course, if the doe isn't cycling, you're probably okay, but think about all the girls who believed they couldn't get pregnant the 1st time, and MANY other similar myths.  Cycling is not absolutely necessary.


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