# Need advice on goat polio prognosis



## valewife (Jun 24, 2015)

My 6 yr old pygmy doe, always healthy, developed symptoms of thiamine deficiency and/or listeria infection
over the weekend while I was out of town. Vet came out and began tx Sunday evening. She was in bad shape but still on her feet.
 I've been giving thiamine SQ round the clock now since; also dex, penicillin, probiotics and
lixatonic daily. The doe went down early Monday. I've been force-feeding and syringing fluids. She will not eat or drink on her own. She showed good progress yesterday- up on her chest, head and neck almost straighten out, all muscles less rigid, more relaxed. Then last night she went downhill. Muscle rigor came back and now she's on her side, not moving. I began SQ Ringers last night and more today.
My vet hasn't seen her again but said to keep up tx.
Is there hope ? Do goats come out of this from so far down?
I can't get enough fluids or food in her, I'm afraid.
Your experiences, opinions and advice are appreciated. I don't know what to do.
Thanks group.


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## Hens and Roos (Jun 24, 2015)

Sorry to hear of your goat not doing well. 

@Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @OneFineAcre and others hopefully will be of more help to you.


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## babsbag (Jun 24, 2015)

Sorry you are dealing with this. I have not had the pleasure so can't speak to her chances of recovery. It sounds as if you have all the bases covered with the medication you are giving. I know that the Pen. has to be super high doses for listeria. I think it is like 6 ml. for a 100lb goat. every 6 hours round the clock.  This is one of those illnesses we prepare for and hope we never see. And the fact that they mimic each other makes it even harder to treat, we just throw the medicine cabinet at them.

Did you change her feed or accidentally feed something that might have been moldy, or did she get into any chicken feed or grain?

You may need to ask you vet how to stomach tube her for nutrients and an IV for fluids.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 24, 2015)

We did have a goat with Listeria. She did live.
3 weeks of round the clock care with all the injections you mentioned.

Babs is right - the antibiotics are very high high dosages. Ours was even higher than she recommends. It must cross the Blood Brain Barrier.

You will need to keep her propped up, legs can be under her, but if she ends up on her side she will bloat.
You will need to hand feed her leaves she will not be able to lower and raise head to eat or drink. Give water to her with a needle*less* syringe every 30 minutes. Lots of probios too for her rumin.

They will go downhill and stay at deaths door but then you have a 50/50 shot.

Please understand, I am glad that we tried and glad our goat lived through it... it was 3 very long weeks, no sleep.Water, injections, hand feeding but the hardest part was keeping her from going on her side... that was every 30 minutes we had to check. She did still end up with some permanent neurological damage. She was re-homed as a pet a year later with full disclosure... BUT 

*and here it is in all honesty....*

If this ever happened again I would euthanize immediately.

During the 3 weeks I did think about it many times but this particular goat seemed to just fight. So we went with it. Afterwards she had a bit of an "off" walk head still abit off, slower moving, sometimes would go to run and trip, no longer really jumped up on things, she did improve over time but never back to her old self. She was an infertile doe as it was. She made a great companion for a couple that had a kid goat and needed a buddy.
It did all work out in the end. If she were a breeding doe or a milker that would have been an even greater loss.

Wishing you the best in whatever decision you make.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 25, 2015)

Valewife:  This is very hard for you and I really sympathize.  I did have a doe like this.  She was our daughter's favorite, a real personality, the first one born on our place, a 2 gallon * milker who routinely gave us 4 kids a year.  We all loved her dearly.  When she was 10 she went down with possible tetanus and we treated her for this.  She was current on her CDT.  She continued to get worse and we kept her propped up between 2 straw bales.  She couldn't move and her legs were stiff.  She had to be hand fed and watered.  We finally made the decision after 10 days to put her down.  We cried but I do not regret my decision to end her suffering.  A year or 2 later we heard that vets had discovered thiamine deficiency could mimic tetanus.  I routinely used vitamin B12 and B1 for my goats whenever they went off feed.  I did regret that this had not been known so we could have tried an intensive B1 regimen, but I did not regret ending her suffering.  Good luck on whatever you decide to do.

Southern:  I value your honesty.  After many years of fighting hard for every life, I realize that it is often better for the animal and certainly better on my bank account to euthanize.  it may sound harsh to mention money in regards to treatment of a much loved pet, but it needs to be said.  I always tell the vet up front the monetary amount I will spend to treat an animal.  I find they are much more honest with me about the animal's chances of recovery when they know that I am willing to euthanize.  Some vets will drag out the treatment instead of euthanizing a hopeless case either because they are afraid to tell the owner the truth, or they want to make money.  One vet in our area will never euthanize any animal, even when it is dying in pain.  Neither I nor several people use him anymore.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 25, 2015)

Ridgetop said:


> Some vets will drag out the treatment instead of euthanizing a hopeless case either because they are afraid to tell the owner the truth, or they want to make money.



Here there are very few farm vets that have facilities to board and treat the animal. So it is expected by the vet that we are the ones that do all treatment. They give the orders and direction and  we do all the care. Personally I like it this way as I will be watching round the clock as well as I know my animals. It keeps expenses down as well. One farm call visit is about it.

In our case I knew it was Listeria right away before any major symptoms... her head was just slightly tilted ad a slower gait. Originally when I called in the vet it was misdiagnosed, the treatment was similar but not what she needed... I went with my gut and another vet agreed with me... 
Meningeal worm as well as a few other things can mimic listeria at the onset.
I will say I do think looking at high worm loads IMO can bring resistance down to a point where one animal may get ill and another not. Why our one goat ended up with this and not any others makes me think. This particular goat always had super low parasite loads but at the time of her contracting the Listeria she had a HIGH count. Really blew my mind. They were also flukes to make things worse. Me ran heavy dewormer on her during this time.

Vets that refuse to euthanize should have their licenses revoked IMO.


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## valewife (Jun 26, 2015)

Thank you for sharing your experiences and help.
Elizabeth continued to worsen and we had her euthanized this morning.
I'm heartbroken but I know it was the right thing to do.
Thanks again.


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## Southern by choice (Jun 26, 2015)

I am very sorry for your loss. You made a hard decision, thank you for keeping the animals best interest in your heart even though it leaves a bit of a hole in yours. As a community we feel your loss.


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## frustratedearthmother (Jun 27, 2015)

So sorry for your loss.


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## Ridgetop (Jun 27, 2015)

I am really sorry you lost an old companion.  It is always hard to make the decision but we all know that our duty is to keep them from suffering.  You made the right choice. 

Southern:  In our area, we had no vets who would care for livestock after our old one retired in the 90's.  We were lucky to get horse vets to come out.  We cared for all our sick animals on site like you do.  I was referring to dog and cat vets who want to continue treating terminal cases.  I don't think they are worthy of their calling since they prolong suffering instead of easing it.


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## SkyWarrior (Jun 30, 2015)

Sorry for your loss.


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## Hens and Roos (Jul 1, 2015)

Sorry for your loss


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 3, 2015)

So sorry


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 5, 2015)

So sorry


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