# What Breed of Sheep Are These Babies? Photos  Page 3



## thailand (Nov 24, 2016)

Hi everyone....it's been a while since I was last on here.  

I've been reading through the thread "Let's Look at Our Different Feeding Practices *GOATS*".   What a fabulous read!  It's got me thinking that I should really have a firm feeding plan for my 3 goats.  It's kinda been a bit hit and miss up to this point really.  After Khaleesi kidded I fed grain/loose minerals/BOSS and pangola hay free-choice, and cut & carried forage 2 x a day for all 3 of them.

I have now dried off Khaleesi, and I believe she is pregnant to her son, Jabari.  This is where I've come a bit unstuck. Should I still be giving her grain every day?  When she was milking I was giving her 3 cups a day.  I cut that right back to nothing while I was drying her up.  I believe she is now 58 days pregnant.

I don't know  if Aaliyah is pregnant to her brother Jabari or not.  I haven't seen her come into heat (I witnessed Khaleesi on heat and Jabari doing 'his thing'.  Khaleesi hasn't come into heat again, so it would seem things took).  So, should Aaliyah still be getting some grain?  Jabari and Aaliyah are now 9 months old.

Next issue - Jabari.  I've been reading about ammonium chloride.  Should I definately be giving this to Jabari?  And what about grain for him?

I think all 3 are looking a little on the thin side.  I'll have to post a current photo here later.

I am not able to purchase either alfalfa hay nor alfalfa pellets here in Thailand.  But, what we do have tons of is this http://www.feedipedia.org/node/282  It grows like weeds everywhere and is as common as grass!  Looking at the nutritional analysis it appears it's just as good as alfalfa?

Thanks for any help you guys can give me.


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## Sumi (Nov 25, 2016)

@Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @Ferguson K @babsbag @TAH


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## babsbag (Nov 26, 2016)

I do not give AC to my bucks, but always to a wether. But it would not hurt to give it to bucks IF you can get them to eat it. I always had to either buy grain with it in it already, or sprinkle a little on the grain each day. But now that I don't have any wethers my bucks get only alfalfa, no grain at all therefore no AC

The plant that you mentioned does look good for goats. I see that it can be toxic to some animals that are non-ruminant so I would add it slowly as with any new feed. Also it said this..._Adding iodine to leucaena can alleviate the detrimental effects of mimosine in goats. _ I would put out some kelp meal for them if you can get it.  The calcium to phosphorus ratio is high in calcium which is ok, the feed would even be ok for the buck. Wish we had that stuff here.

I don't feed grain to my does until they are being milked. I believe that some people will start adding grain 30 days out from freshening but you don't want a fat goat. The loose minerals should be available all of the time.


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## thailand (Nov 27, 2016)

Hi Babs,  

Thanks for your reply.  I should clarify (my fault), I'm not actually giving grain.  I've been giving them bagged dairy cattle feed 16%.   I've raised Aaliyah and Jabari on this cattle feed and have just continued up until now (9 months old).   Khaleesi has had it all through her milking season, only when she was drying up over the last 3 weeks did I cut right back from 3 cups a day to 1/4 cup a day and then to none. In the last week I've doubted myself and decided to go back to feeding her a little cattle feed - 1/4 cup a day.  

Should I not be giving this to any of them now? Especially not to Jabari?  I have shredded dried kelp available 24/7.  I can't get kelp meal here that I know of....only this shredded people food kelp (used in Japanese cooking) from the supermarket.

Does that all sound ok then?

While I'm in a quandry with feeding and wanting to do the best I can for our goats, DH came home last night and said he'd seen baby lambs for sale.  He thinks it'd be a good idea to get one (I'm thinking 2 for company).  Here's the thing....he usually complains we have to many animals  and now he wants sheep to keep the grass down.   I'm thinking I should jump at the chance.  What does everyone think?  Good idea?  Do sheep mix with goats ok?  I do know that I'd need to be very strict about not letting sheep get into goat food re: copper.....that won't be a problem at all cause all the animal food is kept away in another building a short distance away from animal enclosures.  Anything I need to know before we jump in with both feet?  

Unbelievably, DH has even said he'll take care of any shearing...I won't have to worry about that.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 27, 2016)

I think reading and understanding body condition score will be of great benefit to you. Some herds need no grain other do. It is very individual. I personally don't like a skinny goat but really don't like a fat goat either. LOL

I looked at the calcium and phosphorus levels and the ratio is very high. The max ratio should be NO more than 4:1 and that is pushing it. If I read this right I think it said 5:1. With min and max being 3:1 and 9:1  The best is 2:1- 3:1.

The protein is also extremely high. 
Too high of calcium and too high of protein can cause many issues.

Personally I would NOT add in another species until you have had a few seasons with the goats.


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## babsbag (Nov 27, 2016)

Your goats should have loose minerals with copper available at all times, but the sheep can't have that so it is hard to raise them together. 

I would not give your buck any grain, or at least not much. Good hay is really enough. IMO.  The shredded kelp is good, probably better than the kelp meal...more fiber. 

@Southern by choice, I compared the Leucaena to Alfalfa on that site and the Leucaena is about  5:1 but the alafalfa is 10:1.  The Leucaena is 23% protein and alfalfa is 18%. I personally would like the higher protein and I would just cut back on the grain. I top dress my grain on occasion with calf manna for more protein.  If the plant is available I certainly wouldn't hesitate introducing it to the diet.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 27, 2016)

It really depends with the buck. How is his BCS? Is he gaining at least 10 pounds a month? Some bucks need feed, others are fine without it. Same with the does. You should be able to tell if they are fat or thin. If thin- feed them. If dat- don't feed them/feed less. 

As long as the CA: P ratio is correct he won't have issues with UC. 

My growing standard sized bucks eat several pounds of feed a day, free choice actually. My Nigerian buckling gets free choice feed too. The feed is balanced so no UC. I avoid BOSS like the plague when it comes to bucks and wethers. 

Most milking does need more than three cups a day. Do you have pics of the goats?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 27, 2016)

I think every herd is different. The amount of available forage, the quality of hay. the land space all make a difference. 

There are issues with feeding too much protein and too high calcium.

I would learn how to do the BCS on your dairy goats and go from there. What works for one farm may not work for another.

Our Kikos when out on the land need nothing... and I mean nothing. They get everything from the grasses, weeds, leaves vines, trees. They do not even need mineral. In winter when all that is gone they are lotted and get hay and we must give feed. This breed of goat does NOT thrive off of hay or feed... they thrive off of forage. 

Our dairy goats have a diverse diet that works well for us. They have different kinds of hay. Rarely do we feed straight alfalfa. Some of our does, one in particular got very ill. This dairy doe does best "on the land" yet another doe we have has a more difficult time maintaining her weight even though  her parasite load is next to nothing. We feed a pelleted, balanced feed as well. Our bucks do get feed along with hay. We have found over the years that they did far better with the balanced diet that hay alone cannot give. 
The majority of dairy goats that I see fed hay only and nothing else are skinny and usually parasite ridden as well, have low milk production, and generally are nutritionally deficient. Hay is tested by some but not by most, so not always nutritionally good. Pretty hay doesn't always mean good hay. 

There really is no one size fits all. If you find your animals do not need grain/feed then why use it. At the same time if they are losing body conditioning then adding it back is good.

This is from the ADGA along with UC Davis I believe - it is how to body score your dairy goat.  It is long but thorough  
The first 4 minutes they explain a good deal but after that begins the "how to"


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## Mike CHS (Nov 27, 2016)

That Sanaan (I assume) is one beautiful animal.  It may have faults but I can't see them.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 27, 2016)

Thanks for posting the video! I've bookmarked it to watch when I have more reliable Internet access.  I do need to learn  to do this.  I have one goat (dry doe,  herd queen)  who gets fat looking at grass.  Then I have my mini alpines who truly need some grain to look good (in my eyes). I might have to feed them separately...  Although I'm not breeding the fat one (even though everyone asks me if she's pregnant) so it's not as big of a problem.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 27, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> Thanks for posting the video! I've bookmarked it to watch when I have more reliable Internet access.  I do need to learn  to do this.  I have one goat (dry doe,  herd queen)  who gets fat looking at grass.  Then I have my mini alpines who truly need some grain to look good (in my eyes). I might have to feed them separately...  Although I'm not breeding the fat one (even though everyone asks me if she's pregnant) so it's not as big of a problem.



I do think there are some goats that will stay on the leaner side no matter what. They are animals and will still be unique. 
I do think years ago dairy goats were much leaner but there has been a good deal of discussion on the subject and the consensus is that the wacko animal rights people thought everyone was starving their goats and that is when the pounds started packing on. 
I have heard this from dairy goat people that have been in goats forever and several of my vets have said the same thing. My one vet said the show goats are far fatter then they should be.


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## thailand (Nov 27, 2016)

Thanks Southern for the video...that was great!  I've bookmarked it for future reference too.  At the moment I have a broken foot so I'm hobbling about a bit for the next 3 weeks.  But as soon as I can I will definitely be going over my goats looking at body condition.  In the meantime I will just have to do a bit of visual.

Thanks also Goat Whisperer and Babsbag for the straight forward advice.

I should say that I never intended to keep sheep WITH goats.  I was thinking we could build them a small enclosure just for them...  Also, sheep (and even goats to some extent) are a bit of a rarity here in Thailand.  Kinda classified as exotic pets LOL.  So, there are not many around.  I don't know if we would get the chance again to buy some pet lambs if we waited on these ones   It is my understanding that the guy selling these babies is a vet/breeder.

Does that make any difference about getting a couple or not?

There is a very good agriculture university very close to us and we have yet to delve indepth into what they may be able to offer us advice-wise with our 'farm' and animals.

Goats - ok, if I understand everyone correctly, my plan then will be to check BCS for everyone, then use that to gauge if I need to up food amounts or not.  Within that, DON'T feed the young buck dairy pellets or BOSS but do feed him the Leucaena and other forage available here, as well as all the Pangola hay he wants, minerals and kelp.  I probably don't need to add Ammonium Chloride.  (By the way our goats get 3-4 banana skins almost daily, as well as 3-4 banana leaves which they love.)

The does, do give 1/4 cup dairy pellets if needed (but maybe less than the 16% protein?), do included BOSS for the girls, and forage as above, hay, minerals and kelp.

Have I understood correctly?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 27, 2016)

Our baby Nigerian Dwarfs get more than 1/4 cup of feed so it that is all why bother. Again go by what you see with the goats. If your buck is fine then good. If he is skinny feed him. Keep it simple. 16% is fine.

Sorry about your broken foot!  

Glad you found there is a university that may assist.

As far as sheep... do you have the land to support them? Do you have the support? Will you be raising the goats and sheep for meat animals for the village?


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## thailand (Nov 27, 2016)

Ok thanks Southern     I will try to get either photos or videos posted here showing my goats on the milk stand.  I've just been and had a quick look at them with your posted video in mind....actually I think after all they are looking pretty good...maybe a 3?

We have an acre of land with the hope of buying more surrounding land in the future.  The goats are only being raised for milk, and the sheep would simply be much loved pets with the added benefit of keeping the grass a little trim.  Which would you recommend - pet whethers or ewes?


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## TAH (Nov 27, 2016)

For grass I would do sheep. Sheep are grazers goats are  browsers. 

SBC and GW how do you leave grain for your bucks? (Our goats would gorge themselves to death).


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## babsbag (Nov 28, 2016)

My bucks don't get grain as there is no way to feed multiple bucks in one pen without them killing each other.  But the hay I feed is tested and is dairy quality alfalfa, they get almost 5 lbs a day each. The TDN in the hay is about 65% and my goats look better this year than they ever have.  Probably the big goats get more as the little goats don't eat 5 lbs of hay. I am sure it wouldn't hurt my growing kids to get some grain, but again, no way to feed 50 kids without causing major battles and a few of them being major hogs. 

@thailand, I think your feeding plan sounds good. 1/4 c. of grain is not much but if the body condition is good I wouldn't worry about it until they go back into milk and then up the grain. I think the protein is ok. 

If you have a way to house the sheep and grass for them and they are healthy I would get them if you want them. Life is too short to say "what if".


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## thailand (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks Babs     So.....whethers or ewes?  Which make the better pets?  And, I take it we are better to have 2 x or will one be ok considering we have goats they can be friends with?


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## babsbag (Nov 28, 2016)

I know nothing about sheep so I have no suggestion on personality, maybe ask the breeder.  But I would get two just because I seem to own everything in pairs.


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## TAH (Nov 28, 2016)

I had two ewes mother daughter pair, mom was very sweet and mild tampered daughter was bouncing ball of joy. We named them peace and joy. 

I would get either two wethers or two ewes. @norseofcourse @Sheepshape


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## norseofcourse (Nov 28, 2016)

For sheep, I would get two of the same gender, too.  How they are handled will make more difference in how friendly they are, than their gender.  The only difference I can think of is that with ewes, you won't have to worry about possible urinary calculi.

What breed are the sheep?


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## Sheepshape (Nov 28, 2016)

Two ewes would be my choice....with the added bonus of maybe borrowing a ram and having LAMBS.....then I'm a bit lamb obsessed. Two wethers or a wether and a ewe would also generally get on well....ewes still being a bit more predictable in their behaviour than males

Personality is inherited to a fair extent in sheep....so. like dogs, always look at the parents before buying the offspring.

Dietary needs of sheep and goats are different, e'g copper requirements quite high in goats, whereas copper poisons sheep at the same level of intake, but they CAN be kept together if you have a nice rough area for goats to browse and a more lush area for sheep to graze.

With regards to food supplements, around here, where sheep outnumber people 3:1, we hay/silage supplement sheep when the grass stops growing and feed ewe 'nuts' to pregnant ewes in the last 4-6 weeks of pregnancy and during the first 6 weeks or so of lactation. (My ewes tend to be a bit fat as I give them too many treats, though!).

Good Luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## thailand (Nov 28, 2016)

Norseofcourse.....that is a very good question!  Yes, what breed indeed.  The old man looking after the lambs (his son breeds them but is currently away in Spain) didn't have a clue about what breed they are.  Their eyes are clean and clear, nostrils clean and clear, ear look good, bottoms are clean no problems.  Overall very clean looking babies.  They are currently being bottle fed 4-5 times a day with UHT milk.  Guess this is ok??   I took photos    Anyone able to tell me what these babies are please?

There is one 2 week old ram, and twin 10 day olds - a ram and eweling? (Sorry....brand new to sheep so not sure of the correct terminology).  DH is thinking we might only be able to get one lamb, so I'm thinking the eweling might be the better choice then, smaller when full grown etc.

Anyway, here's the photos taken just 20 minutes ago


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## thailand (Nov 28, 2016)

Hi Sheepshape, you posted just as I was getting ready to.    Outnumbered 3:1 aye....well I'm a Kiwi from New Zealand (living in Thailand) and back home sheep waaay outnumber people  LOL  

Nice to meet you!


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## Green Acres Farm (Nov 28, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> I do think there are some goats that will stay on the leaner side no matter what. They are animals and will still be unique.
> I do think years ago dairy goats were much leaner but there has been a good deal of discussion on the subject and the consensus is that the wacko animal rights people thought everyone was starving their goats and that is when the pounds started packing on.
> I have heard this from dairy goat people that have been in goats forever and several of my vets have said the same thing. My one vet said the show goats are far fatter then they should be.


The 2 vets who I talked to, one who offers BCS, both assured my that my Saanen doe who I thought was too thin looked fine. I definitely had the impression with both that lean is okay and healthy.


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## thailand (Nov 28, 2016)

Hey everyone, hope you don't mind but I figured I should change the title as it's now turned towards the possibility of a baby lamb.  Should I have started a new thread instead?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 28, 2016)

I would not get a single. Sheep are flock animals and like their own kind. Get two. Ewes. This way down the road you might be able to breed them and have food for the freezer as well.


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## Sheepshape (Nov 28, 2016)

thailand said:


> Hi Sheepshape, you posted just as I was getting ready to.  Outnumbered 3:1 aye....well I'm a Kiwi from New Zealand (living in Thailand) and back home sheep waaay outnumber people LOL
> 
> Nice to meet you!



Thank you,thailand.....nice to meet you, too. But a Kiwi unfamiliar with sheep? Still,no time like the present to start. I didn't know one end of a sheep from the other up until about 10 years ago....well, that's maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but I'm addicted now.

I haven't a clue what those sheep are....but they look VERY pretty.....sheep over here tend to be of the woolly, squat type, much like the folk.

Sheep don't do well as singletons as they are a flock animal...so aim to have at least two.

Baby sheep are all lambs...males, ram lambs, ewes are ewe lambs. After a year and if they lose their 'bits' it gets more complicated. Males who are castrated are called wethers. Lambs over a year of age (and hence will have been sheared once) are called shearlings or yearlings. All rams over here (and in some other countries) are called tups, and the mating season the tupping season with ewes being 'put to the tup'.

I'm sure you will enjoy sheep, they are great animals to keep.


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## babsbag (Nov 28, 2016)

The milk is ultra-high temp. pasteurized??? If that is the case it should be fine for them. Most of the milk we buy in the US is UHT, people just don't know that it is. It doesn't make cheese readily, (that is how I know about UHT) but I have fed it to goat kids numerous times. 

They are adorable and steal two if you can


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## norseofcourse (Nov 28, 2016)

I showed a friend the pictures and her best guess was Katahdin and/or St. Croix and/or Dorper.

Do they have to shear them or do they shed?  Did you get any pictures of adults?  Are the brown spots on their backs colored wool, or markings the farmer put on so he can identify them?

Two lambs would be best - any chance they might have more lambs sometime soon and you could possibly get another ewe lamb?  Then as others have said, you'd have the possibility of someday breeding them...


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## thailand (Nov 28, 2016)

Thanks Babs for the info on UHT milk.  Good to know that I can indeed use that to feed lambs/kids.  
Norseofcourse, I did ask about shearing and was told that IF we wanted to shear them then the best time to do that is the rainy season (hot/humid)...but it sounded like it might be optional, not sure.  I did ask if they will have horns and was told no.  The brown spots are definately colored wool not identifying marks.  I've been doing some internet research myself and have been reading about sheep that don't have to be shorn.  Is that what Katahdin, St Croix and Dorper are?  I understand that there are some sheep breeds in Thailand which have been imported here by expats.  Overall sheep numbers are miniscule....they are just a livestock that Thais have not explored.

Sheepshape....yeah a Kiwi who grew up surrounded by sheep but doesn't know that much about them....it's hilarious aye!  LOL  In New Zealand we have 29.6 million sheep/4.5 million people!

Unfortunately I don't think I can persuade my DH to take two....will probably just be a singleton.  Can I make this work?  I am home all day and we have 9 children, 3 dogs, 5 cats, 25 chickens, 7 lovebirds, 1 parrotlet, 2 rabbits, 1 turtle and 3 goats.....will that 'do' for company?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 28, 2016)

Sometimes it works, often it does not.
They are basically still alone. You are humans not sheep. 
They are animals and livestock at that. Regardless whether we view them as pets or not they are what they are. 

More often then not singletons do get depressed become immune compromised and die. 
By the time people figure this out the singleton is usually too far gone.
The lamb may or may not be adopted into the fold of goats. Often this is not the case.

Our sheep never did mix with the goats.
Most breeders won't place a single unless it is strictly being grown for meat.


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 28, 2016)

I agree with SBC. If your Dh really wants them, he should get 2. If he doesn't like that, maybe sheep aren't his thing. 

Sheep and goats are very different. They play, head butt, move, and just are very different than goats.


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## thailand (Nov 28, 2016)

Ok...darn!  It was DH's idea and I wasn't that keen....but now I've had time to think about it I really want a sheep!  I'll just have to try to persuade him on two.  There are twins available at 10 days old...a ram and a ewe.  The ram is $US84 and the ewe $US126.  Does that seem reasonable prices?

Oh and a quick edit to say that I've been told by the old man that they are a meat breed and he says they will get to around 60kg.  Does that help with breed identification?


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## luvmypets (Nov 28, 2016)

thailand said:


> Ok...darn!  It was DH's idea and I wasn't that keen....but now I've had time to think about it I really want a sheep!  I'll just have to try to persuade him on two.  There are twins available at 10 days old...a ram and a ewe.  The ram is $US84 and the ewe $US126.  Does that seem reasonable prices?
> 
> Oh and a quick edit to say that I've been told by the old man that they are a meat breed and he says they will get to around 60kg.  Does that help with breed identification?


Seems very reasonable to me, most go for upwards of $100-200 around here.


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## Ferguson K (Nov 28, 2016)

That seems like fair prices for our neck of the woods.


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## Sheepshape (Nov 29, 2016)

thailand....twins cannot be separated....well, it's worth a try!


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## thailand (Nov 29, 2016)




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## TAH (Nov 29, 2016)

We bought our sheep full grown for 160 for the pair.  The average amount for a bottle baby in oregon is $25_50 in alaska $200_400.


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## thailand (Nov 29, 2016)

yeah....guess because they are a rarity here they are on the expensive side.  Well....DH is in a good mood....will let you know if we get them


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## Sheepshape (Nov 29, 2016)

Good Luck.

Farmers over here often give away bottle lambs as the price of the replacement powder doesn't mean that they are financially viable. The vast majority of orphaned lambs (or triplet births) involve 'adopting' by other ewes who either have lost their own lambs or who have had singletons. The lucky few end up with a "shepherdess'-type feeder (basically a bucket with teats).

As I have relatively small numbers of sheep and a relatively large number of triplet births I always end up with about 10 bottle lambs, but I love 'em. OH has, however, made a rack into which 6 bottles fit, so I can feed them 6 at a time.So, costly and time consuming, but forever my babies who remain super-friendly, wilful and delightful throughout their lives. As I usually keep my bottle babies, then I have a flock of spoilt sheep....VERY easy for me to manage, but a bit of a nightmare when they have to be scanned or sheared by strangers.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 29, 2016)

I would definately say a hair breed of sheep....which dont require shearing.

I have no preference of rams or ewes or wethers...our rams are just as friendly as the ewe's.

Freshly weaned lambs here that are not mixed breed are $100-250, adults purebred are $200-600

You will need two sheep. I have seen how the goats treat the sheep and they will not be friends. Our goats harass the sheep every chance they get and shove them off the food. We use copper bolus and free choice sheep minerals atm, so we dont have to worry about copper poisoning in the sheep. We had it set up so the goats could get goat minerals but the sheep kept busting into the mineral feeder. Sheep are over all more gentle then goats with each other it seems.


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## thailand (Nov 29, 2016)

A hair breed of sheep.  Hmmmm...that's what I was thinking too.  They are apparently 'meat' sheep as opposed to wool sheep so that would fit yeah?  The ram is completely white, and the ewe has a tan colored patch about the size of a dinner plate on her rump above her tail, under her neck area, the underside tips of both ears and a light tan ring around both eyes.  I have heard a whisper that there could be Dorper sheep in Thailand...but don't have a clue yet if these babies are Dorper.  Hopefully I might be able to get a hold of the old guy's son when he returns to Thailand and find out for sure what breed they are.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> You will need two sheep. I have seen how the goats treat the sheep and they will not be friends. Our goats harass the sheep every chance they get and shove them off the food. We use copper bolus and free choice sheep minerals atm, so we dont have to worry about copper poisoning in the sheep. We had it set up so the goats could get goat minerals but the sheep kept busting into the mineral feeder. Sheep are over all more gentle then goats with each other it seems.



LOL Our sheep were the complete opposite.  They were fine at first but over time they rammed the goats, and were just jerks to them. It got so bad the Livestock guardian dogs were always in a tizzy and grew to really not like the sheep. When they started ramming our pregnant does that was it. We put them on 3+ acres alone. But even then they had to be a PITA and constantly escape and get out. Last straw was where they were running down the highway and we had to fetch them. 

As far as the breed they look like Katahdin. 
If you get the ram lambs and the breeder wethers them you need to find out how old. Most wethered real early are destined for freezer. Wethering to early can cause pizzle issues and stones.
Something to research so you understand more about this.


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## thailand (Nov 29, 2016)

Oh wow....thanks for that Southern.  I'll look into the best age to wether then.  Thanks for the suggestion of Katahdin too.  Norseofcourse has a friend who has suggested the same.


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 29, 2016)

I would guess Katahdin as well....they often have those tan/brown spots on a white base.



Southern by choice said:


> LOL Our sheep were the complete opposite.  They were fine at first but over time they rammed the goats, and were just jerks to them. It got so bad the Livestock guardian dogs were always in a tizzy and grew to really not like the sheep. When they started ramming our pregnant does that was it. We put them on 3+ acres alone. But even then they had to be a PITA and constantly escape and get out. Last straw was where they were running down the highway and we had to fetch them.
> 
> As far as the breed they look like Katahdin.
> If you get the ram lambs and the breeder wethers them you need to find out how old. Most wethered real early are destined for freezer. Wethering to early can cause pizzle issues and stones.
> Something to research so you understand more about this.



We had 37 goats and only 3 sheep so they were well out numbered. Now we have about even numbers so they get along better.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

misfitmorgan said:


> We had 37 goats and only 3 sheep so they were well out numbered. Now we have about even numbers so they get along better.



We had a ton of goats and only 2 sheep. I really enjoyed them at first. They ended up being nothing but a PITA.  After all the pummeling of the goats the LGD's began to really hate them. Once they were moved they would escape pretty frequently. If they came along the goats field the LGD's would go nuts.  The sheep were fine with us, although never lovey and friendly.  It seemed like once the sheep hit maturity is when it all started. Even in the beginning though the sheep always stayed together and never mingled with the goats. The goats never cared about the sheep being there but once the ramming started they were scared of them. 

I will get some sheep again but will not ever house them together and will get a different breed.


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## NH homesteader (Nov 29, 2016)

So what breed did you have that caused all this trouble?


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## luvmypets (Nov 29, 2016)

That's a shame you had a bad experience with them. I love mine, they are spoiled


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## Southern by choice (Nov 29, 2016)

Jacobs. They would come up for chin scratches etc but they are more primitive and don't want to be hugged on. They would greet us at the gate, normal stuff. No hotwire could keep them in. I think their wool just was so thick they never felt a thing going through.
I'll have to put up some pics. They sure were pretty! Like I said they started out fine but sadly once they matured that was it. 
I love their wool it is great for rugged outdoor wear.

I'll put up some pics!


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## misfitmorgan (Nov 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> We had a ton of goats and only 2 sheep. I really enjoyed them at first. They ended up being nothing but a PITA.  After all the pummeling of the goats the LGD's began to really hate them. Once they were moved they would escape pretty frequently. If they came along the goats field the LGD's would go nuts.  The sheep were fine with us, although never lovey and friendly.  It seemed like once the sheep hit maturity is when it all started. Even in the beginning though the sheep always stayed together and never mingled with the goats. The goats never cared about the sheep being there but once the ramming started they were scared of them.
> 
> I will get some sheep again but will not ever house them together and will get a different breed.



We have suffolk and polypay. Our sheep are very friendly even the rams and love their heads scratched and their faces petted. Our sheep are actually more friendly then some of our goats. The goats get out all the time and the sheep have never gotten out, even with no hot wire. Funny how the experiences can be so very different.


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## SheepGirl (Nov 30, 2016)

I don't think Katahdin are found in Thailand. They are a relatively "new" breed of sheep developed in the U.S. Canada and Mexico have small populations of Katahdins.

I am not familiar with Thailand, much less sheep breeds that can be found in Thailand, so it could be anyone's guess. Did the owner say what kind they were?


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## thailand (Nov 30, 2016)

Hi SheepGirl,  I haven't been able to speak to the owner (who apparently has a farm with 100 sheep) because he is currently in Spain.  I have only been able to talk with his father, who doesn't seem to know that much about the sheep.


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## Latestarter (Nov 30, 2016)

Being as to where you're located I'd more expect them to be a breed common to and from Australia or New Zealand... Just cheaper to ship if nothing else. I have no idea what breed they are but the look like hair sheep (meat) vice wool sheep. I really think you should get a couple!


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> I My one vet said the show goats are far fatter then they should be.


That's just not true
If your vet had said that show goats on average had a higher BCS than non show goats I would have agreed

Fatter?
That sounds negative

People who show their goats put a lot more effort in to having their goats in optimum condition and take much better care of their animals than the average goat keeper

I have 2 fat goats now out of 30 
Exclude the 8 Bucks who are all running a little thin now and that is 2 out of 22

Dee a yearling who is bred I don't consider to be a problem
I've started to call her Fat Dee ( remember how well Fat Clarabelle turned out)
She actually reminds me of Clarabelle 

Cookie on the other hand I'm
Worried about
She is a 5 year old who didn't settle last year and she is a 4+++ on BCS
I think she is bred and I'm a little concerned 
Just don't have the facilities to separate her

I have 8 does on milk test
They are all perfectly conditioned and still producing well
That doesn't happen by accident


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## Goat Whisperer (Nov 30, 2016)

He tells me my goats are fat. I still feed em' how I feed them. 

I think he looks more at the internal fat reserves. It's actually pretty interesting when you do open a goat up and compare the internal fat to the external. 

I didn't think any of your goats are fat.


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## OneFineAcre (Nov 30, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> He tells me my goats are fat. I still feed em' how I feed them.
> 
> I think he looks more at the internal fat reserves. It's actually pretty interesting when you do open a goat up and compare the internal fat to the external.
> 
> I didn't think any of your goats are fat.


Your does and my does would be perfectly healthy if they were thinner
We just try to have them at optimum condition
And honestly I don't worry to much about yearlings who are fleshy 
They make babies start making milk and they are ok
I am a little worried about Cookie


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## Southern by choice (Nov 30, 2016)

Yes, the one vet is talking about internal fat reserves
The other vet that says the same thing is a vet for show herds and non show herds. 
I don't think he was saying they are obese I think he was referring to the management is significantly different. 
If you had a hundred acres and the goats lived off the land as goats were designed to do they would not resemble what we see. They would be leaner, better muscled, nutritionally balanced without having to give this and that. Milk production may not be as much, we do what we do to optimize these things.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 1, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> He tells me my goats are fat. I still feed em' how I feed them.
> 
> I think he looks more at the internal fat reserves. It's actually pretty interesting when you do open a goat up and compare the internal fat to the external.
> 
> I didn't think any of your goats are fat.



Does he open up that many to be able to make a statement like that?
The only vet who opened up mine was a vet pathologist

Thank you I don't think your goats are fat either


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 1, 2016)

I don't know how many he's opened up Lol 

But, once you have gone to vet school and practiced (farm vet) for over 40 years I imagine he has seen a lot. I do believe that after time, you just kinda "know" how much they have. 

I've only seen a few dog spays in person but even with those few- I still can "see" the internal fat (without opening the dog up) Hard to explain really. Same thing with goat necropsies. Haven't seen a whole lot, but what I have seen makes me feel disgusted with how much internal fat Ruth must have had. 

I have seen some very overweight goats that also happen to be show goats. I don't think all are overweight but others I think are. NOT saying that in a judgmental way at all! We both know I have some very fat goats… Ruth especially. She was almost 90 lbs. She is just one of those does who gets fat off of air. I do disagree with him on some things, I've argued with him and every other vet. I still do respect his opinion, just doesn't mean I agree.


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## Goat Whisperer (Dec 1, 2016)

@thailand sorry for the drift


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 5, 2016)

It could very well be Katahdin.

This youtube video summary(i cant watch it at work) says Katahdin in thailand





This paper shows testing katahdin in the Philippines with one of the contacts being a University in Thailand.
https://books.google.com/books?id=YWfXwyzMLA4C

This study was also done in Thailand and lists 104 katahdin sheep included in it from 1998-2012.
http://breeding.dld.go.th/small/san...h traits of sheep populations in Thailand.pdf
Interestingly enough the study also mentions Bond, Corridale, Dorper, Santa Innes, and a Thai native breed.

This is anther study performed in Thailand, again showing Katahdin and Dorper both in Thailand from at least 1998-2011. It also mentions Merino, Dorset, and Barbadoes Blackbelly. It also shows at least 2 of the 4 research stations had Dorper and Kathadin sheep.
http://rdo.psu.ac.th/sjstweb/journal/35-1/35-1-1-10.pdf

This link  show that in 1997 the first purebred katahdin sheep were shipped to Thailand from the US.
http://agworldinc.com/awinc/about-us/accomplishments/
It also mentions the first shipement of Santa Innes from Brazil to Thailand in 1997.

So i would say the odds of it being a Kathadin or Katahdin cross are fairly high.


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## thailand (Dec 6, 2016)

Wow misfitmorgan, that's impressive.  Thanks so much for your wonderful research.  Quite a bit of reading there for me   It has been decided that for the time being we will wait until we get a bit more organised.  DH has said yes he definitely wants sheep, just gotta get the time right first.  At the moment we are putting in a bit of 7 ft high fencing...so yeah....I can be patient.  Will finally be able to let the animals we do have out to free range for the first time in a year!


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## thailand (Dec 6, 2016)

GoatWhisperer, no worries...I've enjoyed the discussions and learnt a lot in the process


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## misfitmorgan (Dec 6, 2016)

thailand said:


> Wow misfitmorgan, that's impressive.  Thanks so much for your wonderful research.  Quite a bit of reading there for me   It has been decided that for the time being we will wait until we get a bit more organised.  DH has said yes he definitely wants sheep, just gotta get the time right first.  At the moment we are putting in a bit of 7 ft high fencing...so yeah....I can be patient.  Will finally be able to let the animals we do have out to free range for the first time in a year!



No problem. I'm sure you will love your sheep when you get them!!


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