# He BIT me! OooooooUCH! (Picture)



## MissDanni (Apr 11, 2010)

Well things have been going well with Storm until today.

I've been spending lots of time with him, touching him and working on the ground, doing lots of desensitizing exercises and so on.

One of the things I have been doing is standing beside him and simulating jumping up to mount. This was going well and created very little reaction until today ... 

I made the motion once and he moved away... so I repositioned him and did it again, then he turned his head back and gave me one heck of a bite. I was pretty shocked and it took me a sec to absorb that he actually bit me. So I used my big voice and told him no accompanied by a slap in the snip.   

When I went back to feed him his supper he was ok but seems to be acting a bit too dominant for my liking.

Ideas/Suggestions? 

He is a 4 year gelding for those who don't know. He was racing at some point. The last owner claimed to have ridden him but that bucket doesn't seem to carry much water. He will bridle fine but I don't think he understands the reins. He will turn on lead but not on reins.

Also, my hip hurts like heck lol






This will look even more nasty tomorrow.


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## DonnaBelle (Apr 11, 2010)

Well, ouch.

I don't know much about horses, it's a really big subject and training them seems really complicated to me.  We have 2 Tennessee Walkers, 12 yr. old geldings, brothers in fact.

We don't ride them, DH bought them to field trial with but he found out too late that they hate gunshots!!  Oops!!  So now they are just out in the pasture in front of the house, looking beautiful.

We'll keep them, cause someone else might not take such good care of them, and I love to look at them when they decide to take off across the field!

Anyway, one day I was feeding Joe some hay and stuck my hand too close and he chomped down.  NOW THAT HURT.  I have not done that again.

Good luck with your horse and wear tighter jeans!!!  LOL.

DonnaBelle


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## patandchickens (Apr 11, 2010)

Of course it is *possible* that he is just exploring where the limits are.

However it also seems quite possible to me -- I would say 'more likely' -- that all the "simulating jumping up to mount" may have made him a bit sore and he's just trying to communicate that and/or protect himself. (Or he is bored and annoyed with too much of it?)

Be real careful about saddle fit (it is never possible to be CERTAIN the saddle isn't making him uncomfortable, so you should always take htis sort of possibility seriously) and about mounting technique. Quite frankly, it is better for the horse if you use a mounting block. (You want to be *able* to moutn from the ground, of course, since it's sometimes necessary, but it is really kindest to his back if you don't actually DO that except when no alternative exists).

Also, when you are mounting, make sure you're holding the off rein somewhat short, not enough to make him fuss or back up but enough that he does not have much room TO reach around and bite yer butt. It is not impossible for a really determined horse to do it anyhow, but at least you can make it harder for him.

GOod luck, have fun,

Pat


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## MissDanni (Apr 11, 2010)

That will teach me to wear lowriders lol

I didn't have him saddled, I was just basically pretending to jump up, mainly rubbing my body on his. He was good with it all week but today he defiantly was not ok with it.


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## ()relics (Apr 11, 2010)

keep your riding crop in your back pocket...then "set him up" to bite or try to bite you...As soon as he moves his head towards you with a biting motion, slap him with the crop in the face...Cruel? Harsh? Depends on how much you like being bitten, I guess... I am a no hit trainer _Except_ when it comes to my safety.  And biting is a safety issue...so the crop is used.  I don't like to use my hand because the horse may begin to fear your hands and horses are hard depending on where you hit them...After a couple of head swats, after sucessive biting attempts, I'm sure your biting issues will be over...And everytime your horse sees you with the crop in your hand his training will be reinforced ...it could very well be an equipment problem but I don't want the horse to think that it has to bite me to let me know it is unhappy/uncomfortable/whatever...but that is JMO


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## MissDanni (Apr 11, 2010)

()relics said:
			
		

> keep your riding crop in your back pocket...then "set him up" to bite or try to bite you...As soon as he moves his head towards you with a biting motion, slap him with the crop in the face...Cruel? Harsh? Depends on how much you like being bitten, I guess... I am a no hit trainer _Except_ when it comes to my safety.  And biting is a safety issue...so the crop is used.  I don't like to use my hand because the horse may begin to fear your hands and horses are hard depending on where you hit them...After a couple of head swats, after sucessive biting attempts, I'm sure your biting issues will be over...And everytime your horse sees you with the crop in your hand his training will be reinforced ...it could very well be an equipment problem but I don't want the horse to think that it has to bite me to let me know it is unhappy/uncomfortable/whatever...but that is JMO


That's a good point. I don't want him to fear my hands or me for that matter, but respect is a must.

When I told my mentor the first thing she said was "did you give him some back?" She is a huge lover of horses and has owned more than I could count, but she too said that biting is not something to let slide, ever.


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## michickenwrangler (Apr 11, 2010)

Has he ever put his ears back or made a face at you touching any spot on him? Usually horses give some sort of warning before big bites like that.

My own horse has chronic edema in her girth area and she is very "girthy" and doesn't even like to be brushed or touched there. I have to warn ride vets when they check for galls or rubs after distance rides. She has nipped at me before when cinching her up but she has gotten an elbow in the nose or neck. She may make a face at me, and I try to go slow and gentle, so we haven't had an issue in a few years since I tried to tack her up quickly and didn't go slow down there.

That being said, there may be a sensitive area on him that you may not fully be aware of, especially since some horses like to mask pain (prey instinct). I would run over every inch of his body to see if you can get any reaction from a gentle touch or even a gentle poke or prod. Signs may be slight, a tiny wince, a flick of an ear, a small jerk of the head.

Thoroughbreds are also notorious as sensitive in attitude and thin-skinned.

Biting still isn't acceptable, but there may be a reason behind it.


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## MissDanni (Apr 11, 2010)

You know its funny because I have been doing the same thing a few times, each time, I work with him, and then praising him for being a "good boy".

He did move away from me when I did it first today and then when I tried again he bit.

I have been rubbing him and brushing him all over each day (he has been with me just the week) and he never made any notion like this. I go through the same motions every morning when I go out to feed him, he eats, gets brushed and feet cleaned, walked, some sacking and then "lovins" and a carrot. Needless to say he did not get his carrot today.

I was really shocked when he did it, I never expected it from him at all.

Now a few days ago I had him tied by lead to the fence and he let me climb the fence and sit on his back for a moment, he seemed unsure but did allow me.

Yesterday while he was snacking on some hay, DH lifted my little one up and sat her on his back for 2 mins and he was perfectly fine there. (Of course he kept hold of her etc)

It's like he was an all together different boy today for some reason.


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## lupinfarm (Apr 12, 2010)

Yeesh!

You can really see his chompers in that bite!

I don't have any advice, but thats a pretty impressive bite.... at least you got something to show off?


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## ducks4you (Apr 12, 2010)

I agree--NO  BITING  IS  ACCEPTABLE!!  With your crop you can "talk" to him like the herd leader--an immediate NO!!

Food for thought:  My very gentle QH (October, 2009, RIP) wore a saddle that rubbed on a long trail ride ONCE. We caught it and never put that saddle on him again.  After that, he always threatened to bite.  Once he landed his top teeth on DH who was tightening up his saddle and DH grabbed his lower jaw and verbally chewed him out while he hung on to the jaw!!    It was great to watch.  He never forgot the ouchy saddle.  It could be that this is muscle memory occurring...


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## RayNC (Apr 14, 2010)

OUCH is right!!! That is going to really hurt for a while. That is one nasty bight. 

Biting is really bad and you can't let him get away with that. You have to show him YOU are boss. When my horse acts up with the farrier, the farrier will jab him really hard in the gut a few times. Hard enough where he feels it and makes him very uncomfortable. My horse is very sweet but he has his days sometimes when it comes to doing his feet. Well, he always remembers what happens if he acts up. You can see him thinking. 

The thing is......... the horse doesn't see the farrier hit him. All the horse knows is when he behaves badly something will hurt. I would seriously watch out when hitting/smacking in the face. You don't want your horse head shy. If your reflexes were quick enough a good punch in the mouth would have worked. Hey, don't get me wrong....... I love horses but at the same time I'm not going to let a horse beat me up. Just remember how they behave in a herd and how the pecking order works. Not to pretty. 

You have had him a week. You don't know him very well but he is picking up on you. Look at all the little signs like Michickenwrangler suggested. Feel along his body and watch everything on his head and see what changes. If you go along his spine he may dip his back...... that means something. If you run down his leg and he picks it up to "pull away" somethings up there. It's the subtle things you have to watch. Just like he watches your body movements you have to watch his. 

He also has to learn patience. If he doesn't like something, to bad (as long as it doesn't hurt him)...... keep doing it until he does it right. Otherwise you teach him just the opposite and you don't want to do that. It will be a test of wills sometimes. He will learn to trust you. He is young yet. At 4 yrs old he has a ways to go yet.

I have a mini horse that is 3 1/2. I just got him Jan. 31 of this year. He has never been trained to do anything. Friendly as can be but OMG....... he gets into a lot of stuff and is very curious. Hysterical little bugger too. He is with my 18 yr old qh. It's working out pretty well but I did have to make a small stall for him since he steals my 16.1 hh qh's food. He has tried to bite but it's a tasting thing. He gets a snap in the nose. It works because it's quick and he doesn't know where it comes from. 

It will come in time. Don't rush things. One step at a time. I'm sure he will be great once you guys get to know each other. Practice you quick relfexes!


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## Countrymom (Apr 25, 2010)

Biting is beyond dangerous it is deadly.  Do not ever let a horse ... big or small get away with it.  I get tired of hearing it will make them head shy to be smacked in the face.  With all the horses I have been around over the years, I can honestly say I don't care to have a horse's head in my face or space for that reason unless I ASK them.  And no, many that are bitters rarely get head shy from my experience.  If you constantly beat them in the face for no reason that would make them head shy for sure....this is different...this is a correction fast and simple and hopefully hard enough to make them realize you will not tolerate.  So please, do not let the fear of head shyness deter your correction as this is the WORST behaviour you can deal with....seriously....beyond bucking and rearing.  It is a dominant horse issue from the sounds of it.  And from the looks of that bite it was and is something you need to be aggressive with.  That was a warning of more than likely more to come.  When a horse decides to go for broke they will go for the neck shoulder area and then the fight for life is on.  Usually there is a warning or biting problems leading up to it.  Trust me, been there done it.


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## AndyPaso (Jun 6, 2010)

MissDanni said:
			
		

> I've been spending lots of time with him, touching him and working on the ground, doing lots of desensitizing exercises and so on.
> 
> One of the things I have been doing is standing beside him and simulating jumping up to mount. This was going well and created very little reaction until today ...
> 
> ...


New here, but not new to horses.  Your horse is dominating you and he doesn't respect you.  It sounds like you have a somewhat good start by what you are doing already but you are missing some important elements and I am assuming just by what you posted.  I suggest that you become aquainted with the methods used by Clinton Anderson or Dennis Reis.  He plainly told you in horse language to "move your feet away from me".  They have excellent ground work exercises that would allow you to be come the leader.  Clinton is already working on a TB dvd set for OTTB owners, but his method and Reis are so closely related you just have to determine which one fits with your personality and they work.  Its step by step and easy to follow.  You need to stop this exercise and go back and get his respect before attemtping it again.

I would get these tools if you don't have them already a rope halter, a "carrot Stick" (basically any NH stick that can be found more inexpensively on EBAY) and a 14 foot yaht rope lead line.  The rope halter will create pressure and release it and it also does not encourage a horse to lean on it, which they do in traditional web halters.  The stick becomes an extension of your arm.  The yaht rope has a different feel and won't burn your hand if it runs through it.  All are great tools.   I was traditionally trained in a eventing barn, rode hunter/jumpers, worked on dressage and until I discoverd these two trainers everything was rushed, used lots of short cuts and these trainers and their methods make a lot of sense and their primary concern is SAFETY for horse and owner. 

 I never found anything like this in my past training from any of my previous trainers.  I now train with a trainer who is Dennis Reis certified and he worked for Dennis a while back right now he is finessing my techniques as we train my mare for reining.   I have trained her since she was 5 monthes old and she is now 5years old.  I was using Clintons methods before I met him and when we met, he complimented me on my horses and their behaviors after our first training session.  That was high praise and I am not a professional horse trainer by any means.  I find what I like between the two methods and use it, so don't feel like you have to get stuck with one or the other.  

Your horse really needs to respect your space and learn to only come in when invited.  He just proved to you that he doesn't by biting you, using loud nasty voices really isn't going to get through to him. Speaking to him in his language will. Letting him put pressure on  himself by running into your stick uninvited and then removing the pressure when he moves off will.  There is so much to the exercises that these two trainers promote that it is really too much to type out how to do them.  There isn't going to be a quick fix here.  So be prepared to go back to ground one.

You didn't say what you did with him after he bit you, did you put him away?  If you did you just rewarded him and he will try it again.  I really hope you look up the methods used by these two trainers, they will save you a world of hurt and pain if you learn the exercises they promote.  There are no short cuts, the main problem to address first is his dominance and develop you into an effective leader.

But in a nutshell for groundwork before he is ready for riding he should be able to do the following:

1) your horse needs to learn to yield his hind quarters and face you. when directed.
2) your horse should not come into your space univited and should move his feet when directed
3) He needs to back on command (you become leader when you move his feet)
4). You need to be able to move the front end separately from the hind end.
5).  You should be able to touch him with the stick on all parts of his body without him being upset.  
6) He should learn to read your body language and needs to be sensitized and desensitized to your tools.
7) you should be able to touch him everywhere without aggression

Horses learn from the release of pressure.  So if you you create a situation where he runs into your stick, he puts the pressure on himself.  Here is what going to happen:  if you learn the exercises correctly you should never reach the point where he bites you again.  The exercises must be done in proper order and there is a lot of common sense as well as SAFETY reasons behind this. Both of these trainers promote SAFETY first.

When you get back to doing the exercise of jumping up and down and if he attempts the same behavior, you would be blocking him with your arm or stick (already learned from the exercises) and then you would move his feet, work him hard and then practice backing him and yielding hind quarters and his front end.  What you are doing is reminding him that you are alpha--reminding because you have established yourself as his leader. You will release pressure when he shows signs of submission, by licking his lips, chewing, blinking his eyes, cocking a back leg to rest.  Go back to the exercise and your jumping, when he shows signs of submission stop.  The rest is his reward.  Every time he goes to do something negative, work him and move his feet.  Eventually he wil figure out that resting is easier for him.  He has to be submissive and unmoving when you perform the exercise next to him.  Every time he submits you should stop and reward, and that means even the slightest try.  When you are done, hose him down, and tie him up for an hour.  Let him absorb the lesson.  If we feed him and let them go play it doesn't have as much as an impact then letting them rest and absorb it.  Think if it this way, if you throw him into another activity they tend to forget what they just did.  Their minds just don't work like ours do.  We can mull over our lessons while we eat, but horses don't they just go on instinct into the next activity.    

Get your hands on Horse and Rider magaizine. The often have a lot of articles on Clinton, Bob Avila, and Monty Roberts.  It doesn't matter if you are English or Western, the methods apply to all types of disciplines. IMO I have found that most reining horses are more broke than most English horses (that includes dressage trained horses) and most all are trained using natural horsemanship methods. They are finely tuned responsive machines. There are excellent resourses on the web that will allow you to review the basic exercises that put you in control.  Both trainers have the clubs where you can watch past episodes that show every exercise.  Yes you must pay to join, and it is worth the resources that go with them.  You really get more than what you pay for.  RFDTV has most of these guys on and you can see all sorts of methods including Craig Cameron (another fave of mine) Chris Cox, Julie Goodnight and Stacey Westfall.

Okay I think I have typed enough Whewww, my fingers are burning.  I hope this gives you some resources to think about.


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## Paintingpheonix (Oct 12, 2011)

i was told to kick/smack (pretty much whatever you had on you at the time) them in in the front legs, between the knees and hock, and its worked really well for our gelding, cause he was a vicous little bugger, but now only cheeky.


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## mydakota (Oct 14, 2011)

Countrymom said:
			
		

> Biting is beyond dangerous it is deadly.  Do not ever let a horse ... big or small get away with it.  I get tired of hearing it will make them head shy to be smacked in the face.  With all the horses I have been around over the years, I can honestly say I don't care to have a horse's head in my face or space for that reason unless I ASK them.  And no, many that are bitters rarely get head shy from my experience.  If you constantly beat them in the face for no reason that would make them head shy for sure....this is different...this is a correction fast and simple and hopefully hard enough to make them realize you will not tolerate.  So please, do not let the fear of head shyness deter your correction .


I agree totally with this.  After your horse did this, for just a second, you should have made him believe that he was about to die.  

I don't even care if they DO hurt.  They can communicate that without overt aggression.  They can express it in myriad ways short of biting.  Biting, kicking, striking, and charging are all offenses that will get a horse some serious corporal punishment around here.  After wading into him with a crop (or the end of the rope or the reins, or whatever I could get my hands on) I would then have spent the next 15 plus minutes making him RUN backwards from me. Move his feet sideways, backwards and sideways again, double-time, until he was dripping sweat from his belly. Do not stop until he drops his head and assumes a submissive stance.  That was a bad bite.  Biting is dangerous.   Make him yield space to you until every hair on his body is saying "Yes Ma'am, how high?".  

I am not a horse beater by any stretch of the imagination.  Corporal punishment is very rare here.  It is pretty much reserved for instances of overt physical aggression.  Those instances almost never happen here, because the horses are given a good training foundation, know where the boundaries are before we get there, and seem pretty happy with their lot in life overall, but on the very rare instances one of them needs those boundaries reinforced?  You better believe I am gonna do it.  Of course their comfort matters.  They will learn better, perform better, and enjoy their work better if they are comfortable. As a horseman, you are obligated to see to it that they are as comfortable as possible, and that what you are asking them to do does not inflict pain.  They are allowed to express pain--but not through overt aggression.   You had better be listening when they are whispering, because that bite you are wearing is what happens when they shout.  I know you haven't had this horse long and are probably not responsible for any bad handling he has had to this point--so I hope I am not sounding like I am yelling at you, but that behavior just can't be tolerated ever, not for any reason--and the horse needs to KNOW that clean to the core of his soul. 

Think of it like this.  Sometimes horses have to be sold/rehomed.  Sometimes, life situations change and horses need to move on to other owners.  In todays market, there are some very nice horses finding their way to the auctions and even the killers.  The best/only life insurance a horse really has is a good set of ground manners and the training/ability to do a job for somebody.  The well-trained, mannerly horse is the safest horse in the world.  Somebody will usually want that horse around.  If a horse is rude, green, or has ANY history of being dangerous?  He'll likely end up on a truck to Mexico or Canada.  So, you are doing EVERYBODY a kindness by nipping this in the bud. 

Take care of that bite.  It looks like it hurts.  I feel for you.   Good luck.


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## PatchiePonie (Oct 17, 2011)

far out that looks painful mate! If i was you I would have given him a good old fashion slap across the neck or whip him with a rope across his chest but if you were at his stomache and had no rope i would just plainly knee him in the gut!


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## kstaven (Oct 17, 2011)

I watched a so called bullet proof horse grab a woman over the shoulder, shake her and then toss her to the ground. Good thing there where people right on hand or she would be dead today. Biting is one habit that is never tolerated.


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## Lalaith (Oct 20, 2011)

MissDanni said:
			
		

> Now a few days ago I had him tied by lead to the fence and he let me climb the fence and sit on his back for a moment, he seemed unsure but did allow me.
> 
> Yesterday while he was snacking on some hay, DH lifted my little one up and sat her on his back for 2 mins and he was perfectly fine there. (Of course he kept hold of her etc)
> 
> It's like he was an all together different boy today *for some reason*.


You just found your reason.  

Forgive me for being harsh but I really feel I should be straight with you before you or someone around you gets hurt worse than that bite.

1. Getting on an untried horse while it is tied is a recipe for disaster.  If he objects and bucks you off you can be caught between the horse and whatever you tied him to.  The horse is also at risk if he panics and sets back on his halter- he could flip.

2. You have had this horse for a week and you're putting a youngster on his back while he is loose in the field?  Fine, your DH is holding your kid.  That doesn't mean one or both of them are not liable to get thrashed if the horse reacts explosively.

You need to stop trying to train this horse yourself, buckle down and send the horse to a legit trainer or else sell it and buy something more appropriate for your family.  The very fact that you can't understand why the bite occurred is evidence that you are unprepared to deal with this situation.

This DOES NOT mean you are dumb or incompetent.  You are just in a situation that is beyond your experience.  Don`t compound the problem by making bad decisions.

A final note: if your answer is that you cannot afford to have the horse at a trainer`s then you cannot afford to have that particular horse.  My suggestion would be to sell him to a more experienced home and then purchase or adopt a horse more suitable.  In the current economic climate you should have no trouble finding a very reasonably priced mount.

Good luck and be safe!


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## petmom (Oct 26, 2011)

Yes that is a nasty bite. Race horses are trained to direct rein with your hands low on the neck. What kind of bit are you using. If it is a solid curb, then it will pull on both sides of the mouth confusing the horse. Race horses can be very temperamental. Often they have had a hard time. If you hit him, it could make him head shy or make him better at biting and dodging the punch. They  are usually aggressive at times. Pinning their ears, charging you or threating a kick. You just have to learn what best works with him as an individual. Never enter a stall when a horse has his rear facing you. At the race track we would often let the horse to get a bite of feed from the tub before entering, then back out. It is also normal for them to get aggravated when you put the saddle on or jumping up and down next them. My horse looks like an evil dragon when I feed or tack him up. I know how to read him although he has gotten me good when I let my gaurd down. And he is a very good natured thoroughbred. I use a bit with lots of stopping power and swivels on the sides. I did retrain him to neck rein by turning him to the direction I wished to turn and also laying the opposite rein against his neck. He caught on pretty quick. sometimes just placing a chain shank over their nose will make them easier to work with. Don't let him buffalo you and use good sense. He may turn out to be the best horse ever. You should be able to ride him if he has raced. Try lunging him good and taking the edge off before working with him. I've had mine for 8 years now and I can just drop the reins and ride on down the road.


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## Arabian Horse (Oct 30, 2011)

You need to back that horse everywhere! Move his feet! That's just my suggestion. It works every time for me. 

Wiggle the rope and if he doesn't back up, smack him with the shank. No it isn't mean. Ever watched a dominate mare kick a disrespectful subordinate? You can NEVER be as mean as a dominate mare. 

The horse is telling you that he does not respect you. Would he ever do that to the leader in your herd? If he did bite the leader, what would the leader do? He you make that horse move his feet forwards, backwards, left, and right would he/she? 

Your not being mean, but be fair to him. Wiggle the rope slightly, and if he doesn't move.. wiggle it even more. Still if he does not move, get him with the shank. When he backs up, stop all that you were doing. Let him think about what just happened. Stand far away in case he rears up at you.


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## sawfish99 (Nov 8, 2011)

There is already a ton of good advice on the biting.  I also agree that this horse is beyond your level of experience and possibly dangerous to your family.  Even if you keep it, please tell me you are wearing a helmet every time you get on the horse.  And your kids too, even if someone is standing with them.


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## lil'turkeyma (Nov 11, 2011)

Very good advice here.Biting should never be allowed.Horses are herd animals and do understand pecking order.Human is head honcho in domestic herd.Doesn't matter,big or small,young or old,the human herd care taker is boss.I promise he'd never try to bite a herd mare or stallion,he'd be doing the "i'm a baby-mouth-chomping-don't-stomp-me-thing."Love him all you want,but watch his head.I like the "I don't know what happened method."While handleing my young'ens,they can smell me,but no lipping or mouthing me.So when they try their teeth on me somehow they just get a elbow to the mouth.What happened,young horse,you bashed your lips on my elbow?Watch out for that next time you wanna taste.Timing is everything when dealing with biters.Stay on top of it and you should be fine.The more time you can spend with him the better,even if its to meet new people or horses just let him know your time and your terms.


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