# Questions on Buying Additional Land



## lpyrbby (Dec 21, 2015)

Short story, we just purchased a property with a little over 4 acres. Half of that is wooded so my husband can hunt. I just did some guesstimates recently and discovered that we really only have about 1 acre left for one pasture, and another half acre in the front of the house (where a portion is the leech field for our septic). 

Our neighbor mentioned them possibly selling their 4 acres soon. They have a trailer on it. Buying that land would also mean I would already have water, septic, and electricity available for a small/medium run in shed/barn with a few small amenities. 

Does anyone have experience with purchasing a property with a mobile home on it already, and converting it back to mainly just land use? I'm not certain I'll be in a position to buy when they are ready to sell, but if I am, I'd like a better idea of what problems I may face going forward. We have plans for chickens and goats within the next couple of years, and in the end of 5 years, I'd like to have a donkey and/or mule or two. 

Does that make sense?


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## Mini Horses (Dec 21, 2015)

Land purchase not a problem.   You say a "trailer" on it -- do you mean a single wide?     If so then it MAY have it's own financing, with a title, like a car.    Often with a large double wide it is put on a foundation and then there is normally a mortgage on the entire property and d/w, as with a house mortgage.   That's the thing to determine at time you find it for sale and you are interested in purchase.

Also, the d/w will most often have a foundation and the s/w often not so.   This would present more issues with moving the structure and expense.   I bring this to your attention as you sound as tho it is not your desire to have the living quarters remain if you should work toward a purchase in the future.

Would you want to consider renting the unit with just a yard allowance?   Then use the balance of the property for your pastures.  You could always arrange for a separate electric meter for the barn, etc.  Of course, rental always has both +/- issues but could be an offset to the cost of the property so long as the rental unit was in decent condition so that there were no major repair issues.

I have found that the older model units can be difficult to sell & move in some areas.  At times the cost for permits & transport can make the purchase more expensive than the value....depending size of trailer, on distance, roads, bridges, etc., etc.

Hope that helps a little.


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## Baymule (Dec 21, 2015)

Is the mobile home livable? if so you could buy the property and rent the mobile home to pay some or all of the note. If it's not livable, then sell it or scrap it yourself. Pile it up and burn it.

I would definitely try to buy the property.


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## lpyrbby (Dec 21, 2015)

It's a single wide and they are currently living in it. I don't want the trailer at all. I want to consume as much of the open area as possible for pasture and put a little barn type structure near where the trailer currently is so I can make use of the utilities that are already existing. It would basically double our available land and give husband more hunting area, and me more room for larger hooved critters. I'm just unsure of what all nightmares could present themselves in both trying to get rid of the trailer if they don't want to take it with them, and also in dealing with managing the utilities and making sure they're safe from the equines until I can actually do a legit barn/shelter. I'm certain I could post the trailer for free and someone else can deal with removing it. Or I could do the horrible task of destruction myself to try to make some money off what is there. 

I'm just concerned I'm dreaming about doing this without considering the other headaches that are sure to follow. Things just don't go that easy


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## Mini Horses (Dec 21, 2015)

Yes, giving trailer away may be a good idea, if you can't work a deal to purchase without it.   May be able to donate to a charity & get a tax deduction.

Remember that there is a septic & well in place and that would be a consideration for your building "whatever" or other use of property.   These things have a definite and often larger value than you may think at first, so plan accordingly.   There are places where current requirements may not be those of the past when a septic was installed, due to zoning or health department rulings, etc.... Just saying, plan new use so septic is not damaged OR heavy farm equipment not running over and so on.   Wells-- buildings have offset distances, and so on.  

Years in real estate have made me "consider future use" for resale at the time I buy.....Yeah, can be a problem.   But, it's like fencing and what a difference a 3' or 4' would be to overall use.   My barn was built with a foundation!  And all interior dividers can be removed with no detriment to the basic frame of the building.   It has a toilet and sink.   So, any size stall could be configured, a concrete slab could be poured (have that in tack/feed room)...so variable use for me or another.
It could easily be used as a garage, workshop, etc.

Just saying, look at your assets.


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## Latestarter (Dec 21, 2015)

A lot has to do with the purchase price and status of the land. Virtually all trailers are personal property, not "real" property (land). They are taxed and registered as vehicles. As with vehicles, they lose value rapidly over time. They depreciate like a car. They do NOT gain value like a house. But these things you probably already knew...

As such, when you go to purchase the land, you will be purchasing it as land, NOT as a residence. Land loans are a LOT higher on interest and down payment requirements. I'm not sure, but normally when a trailer is placed on a property, there are 2 loans... the land loan and the trailer loan. You'd have to ask them how their financing is set up, or perhaps they have everything already paid off.

You are right in that your biggest problem will be getting rid of the trailer. Most folks moving out of one, do NOT intend to take it with them. As a result, you will be stuck with dealing with it. I've seen many properties being sold with multiple trailers on them... the one the seller is living in (newer) and an older unit that was already there when they bought the property. In many cases, one or sometimes both are in such a state of disrepair that they aren't really salvageable... and in some cases are rotting into the property. The possibility of selling them is virtually nonexistent, and even if you sold it, it would be for pennies on the dollar as the cost to disconnect everything and move the unit would be prohibitive.

In reality, probably the better solution was mentioned above... Use the existing trailer as a rental unit to generate income. Fence off a small area around the trailer to protect their leach field/septic, and give the renter a small yard and room for a garden or pet or whatever. Place the barn you want on your existing property and turn as much as possible on the new property into pasture. I don't know why you'd want/need septic for a run in shed or barn... I can understand water and electric, but that could just as easily be run from your existing residence to whatever barn structure you build.

I hope you'll let us know what happens should you move forward with this. It may just help someone else down the road.


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## JASTECH (Dec 21, 2015)

What about a Tiny House on wheels? I'm considering it, the taxes are much lower do to it being mobile. For my use I'm thinking of a 40' Fith-wheel that I'll build. Shipping containers for my shops and everything off grid, I can still build solar systems.


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## Baymule (Dec 22, 2015)

So you buy it, get rid of the trailer and build a barn. Make use of that septic tank, put in a bathroom, sink and shower.  Never know, you might become a host family for a WWOOF'er.


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## lpyrbby (Dec 22, 2015)

My thoughts with noting the septic being in place is for the off chance of installing a toilet in the barn-thing at some point. Truthfully, I really only want to build a run in with enough room for about 4 horses, tops, with a spare room to hold tack and other supplies. If we wanted to add a toilet later, at least having the septic already there would provide us an "easy" option. I'm more stoked about the idea of having water and electricity there already. 

I also am aware that a loan for land would be a bit different than your typical mortgage. I'm prepared for that. 

Let me share an image of the overhead to see if it helps at all with what I'm looking at and my "concerns." 







The red property line is mine. The blue is a rough line on the neighbor's. There's a bit more, but since I haven't studied theirs as much as mine, I don't recall the specific directions into the woods. My main concern is with the cleared area. The star in this is actually where the existing chicken coop lives, but we're toying with the idea of tearing it down and rebuilding in a different spot. It needs some work before I'll put chickens in it. 

My thoughts are in putting the barn-thing pretty much where the trailer is now, since all the connections for electricity and well are there. Obviously, I'll need to shield them from the animals since I'd like to take the pasture to about 3-4ft from the other neighbor's property line. With where the trailer is located on the property, it would take up a huge chunk of what I want for pasture, and I'm just not sure I'm willing to deal with that headache of having a renter. I was in property management for 7 years. Been there done that. It also looks like a much longer walk to that side of the field than it really is.


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## Baymule (Dec 22, 2015)

Make sure you fence off the septic tank and field lines from the animals. Every so often there is a story on the news about a horse or cow falling in an old septic tank when the top collapsed.


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## lpyrbby (Dec 22, 2015)

I could sit and stare at the overhead image for hours, trying to play out different locations for various things. For instance, I want to plant some more trees street side, because when one of the neighbors drives up his road, the lights flash into the house. I thought about putting the goats in the front yard, but I don't want their house at the street side, nor do I really want it in front of our house. And if we put it off to the left side of house, near the other tree-lined driveway, then we'd be putting it over top of the leach field for our septic. We want to have a garden too, but trying to squeeze that in with the other driveway and where I want the pasture to go is getting tricky. The chicken coop is also nestled at the edge of the woods there, so if we move it, we have to consider how we'll provide shade to the coop when it's July/August here in the south. I certainly don't want that kind of baked chicken. Taking all of those things into consideration, I just feel I'll have more flexibility in what goes where if I can get my neighbor's property. Likewise, I'm also worried about all the nuances (and expenses) that will come from trying to get rid of the trailer and deal with the connections for the utilities.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 22, 2015)

Do you like your house and property?
If you do then personally I think the location of the septic and power are not relevant
Factor the disposal of the trailer and relocation of the power into the price you pay
Septic? Are you planning a dairy?
If not most don't have toilets in their barn
But you need to up the value because it's the only 4 acres adjacent to you for sale


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 22, 2015)

And here is another thought 
If you don't buy it then someone else will
And then what do you have next door to you?


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## lpyrbby (Dec 22, 2015)

Yes, we like the house we are in, very much. 

I was hoping we wouldn't have to relocate power on the other property. Hoping being the operative word  

We are not planning on having cows. Maybe 4-5 Nigerian Dwarf goats, around 8 chickens or so, and at MOST, 4 equines. I was originally thinking a couple of horses and a couple of donkeys, but now, I'm really leaning towards a donkey and a mule. That's still several years out though. 

I have small visions in my head of staring out this dining room window to my pasture with my hooved creatures, doing what they do. The trailer is basically behind the tree here. I also will admittedly sit at this table and gaze out there, daydreaming of what it could be for me lol 







The thought of someone else buying it bugs me too. I want animals there, not more people.


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## OneFineAcre (Dec 22, 2015)

The property is worth more to you than anyone else because it is adjacent to you
It does not cost that much to extend power already on a property
You should talk to a real estate broker about the value of the combined lots with your house and the adjacent property
You could potentially go to your county and combine the two properties and refinance your house with the combined lots
Many commercial banks will not do a traditional mortgage on over 5 acres but credit unions will up yo 10
Unless the property has a problem like soil contamination or something like that then you need to figure out what it is worth
Most of your concerns are ancillary


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## lpyrbby (Dec 22, 2015)

Yes, I agree that most of my concerns are ancillary  I have no idea what else I'm looking at in regards to all the extra headaches and legwork that would be required to make use of that extra acreage in how I want to use it.

The house we currently live in is exclusively in my husband's name. That's fine by me and was kinda required since I'm still trying to get our previous house sold - that one is only in my name since I bought it before we ever met. I'm cautiously optimistic that whenever it sells and I pay off the ridiculous amount of debt that we've assumed over the years, that we'll be in a position to get this extra lot in just my name. That might prove to be a bigger headache to get them refinanced in one convenient package together. I'm okay with the properties remaining separate. Once the trailer gets pulled out of the equation, I don't foresee much trouble in getting the county to make adjustments on how the property is taxed since at that point, it will be just the land value - albeit, with "amenities." This particular property is just over 4 acres, so there shouldn't be a huge ordeal with getting financed for it. We just need a bit of extra time to make sure we've got the funds for the 20% down they'll want for a land loan. Property is pretty cheap out here. I think he was looking at 55-60k for the property, but that could honestly just be hearsay from the other neighbor. There's still plenty of variables out there. 

I'll touch base with our agent after the dust settles on selling my house and see what he can get together for me on the nuances with buying that property. The costs to make it livestock-friendly could really impact my decision to pursue it, in the end. I'm not worried about being rid of the trailer. The scrappers in the area would probably LOVE the chance to take it apart themselves, even if I told them they had to make the whole thing disappear. What my agent likely won't know are the things I'll need to be aware of when trying to make it suitable for our purposes. I think we've given him a crash course in dealing with rural homeowners  

I would need to check with my extension agent about soil testing, yes? Probably need to do that anyway on my side of the property too.


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## Baymule (Dec 22, 2015)

How long has your house been for sale? if it's been too long, you might need to drop your price. We recently moved and sold acreage and a home in town. Both were basically handshake deals. Both transactions were below sales value. It was worth it to us to take less than market value, just to get rid of the headache of having a house and property 170 miles away. Could we have gotten more? Yeah, but WHEN? Six months or a year later? If you really want this land next to you, make your old house more attractive, it might mean taking less for your house.

Is the mobile home in good enough shape to sell to be moved? What about calling a mobile home sales lot and asking if they want it? And give them a date for it to be gone.


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## lpyrbby (Dec 23, 2015)

The house in town has only been listed for about a month and I just received my first offer for it on Monday. I sent my counter back to them last night and hopefully it'll be confirmed soon. The soonest we'll be able to close with their loan type will be the end of February. Hopefully there won't be any hiccups because I'm certainly ready to not del with that further. I do need to make a profit on the sale though to pay off some credit cards and such. 

We shall see I suppose!


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## babsbag (Dec 23, 2015)

I can't even find a land loan in CA from a bank that isn't guaranteed by the USDA and even then the banks want about 50% down and it is only a 5 year loan. Just crazy. 

I too want to buy land adjacent to me but my only option is to wait until the dairy is up and running and then get a "farm ownership loan" through the USDA. One of the properties has a seasonal stream on it so the USDA says "no" as they won't deal with a waterway. The other piece is 16 acres and I am going to ask the owner about a lease with an option to buy as I need to wait at least a year for the dairy to show a profit.

 The property next to me has power and a well and it is 8 acres (4 usable) and they are asking 79,000. The 16 acres has nothing on it and they are asking the same price.


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## lpyrbby (Dec 23, 2015)

There's also a parcel of 39 acres behind us that I'm frothing at the mouth over, but that's WAY more out of reach at this point. The current owner uses it for timber and that's just a hefty chunk of money to throw down for it. I'm hoping maybe I can fit that one into the 10 year plan lol. I may have big dreams


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## Baymule (Dec 23, 2015)

@babsbag 50% down and a 5 year payout? That's crazy! You make a very valid point about buying raw land versus land with a house. @lpyrbby you might have to buy the land with mobile home so you can get a better loan, then rent it out to pay the notes until paid off. Mobile homes have serial numbers, so I doubt you could sell it or get rid of it until the loan was paid. You might consult a friendly loan officer on the ins and outs of this transaction. find out what you can and can't do.


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## babsbag (Dec 23, 2015)

@Baymule  it is crazy and I pretty much gave up trying to buy any vacant land right now. All the banks want me to put a home on it and I just want to run my goats on it. The banks are also very leery about loans for investment property vs. a primary home; they don't make it easy. Most people buying vacant land are paying cash. So for me the best bet is to wait for the dairy to get done and then finance land as part of that business.  Maybe that is just in CA but I would venture a guess that it is everywhere. 

Also, most mobile homes are not real property (as in real estate) they are considered personal property and banks won't finance them and the land together unless they are on a permanent foundation, a certain age, and maybe even has to be a double wide (not sure about that). They are usually called manufactured homes when they meet the criteria for being real property.  A mobile home on land is usually financed like you would a car but for more years. Often times the bank wants you to own the land the mobile home is on or they want it in a park. 

Yes...I have done my homework. I live in a manufactured home on 5 acres that is financed as real estate and have been trying to do a refi for the last few years so I have researched just about every angle possible.


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## lpyrbby (Dec 23, 2015)

When we were looking, we weren't told that trailers were impossible, just DIFFICULT. I *think* I can go into this with the intention of it just being a land loan. The people who own the property, they are actually the son/daughter in law of the family that built the house that we're living in. I suspect that they may have acquired the land cheap. I'll have to find out more about the trailer status, of course, but I think there's some actual ability here to obtain it. I've been consistently told that land loans are usually 20% down and yes, a shorter loan term, but about 10 years instead. 

I'll get with my lender as well too, after the holiday, as I think she'll be able to offer some extra input on the loan challenges that we might face. 

Is there anything else to consider when buying a property like this for livestock use?


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## babsbag (Dec 23, 2015)

20% down sounds a lot better than 50%.   I can't really think of anything else for livestock. Fencing is a big one for me but maybe yours is already fenced. Having water available is a huge plus.


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## lpyrbby (Dec 24, 2015)

Nope, no fencing exists on either mine or theirs, so that's one a hefty expense right off the bat to make it usable. It's not a deal breaker though since I'd have the flexibility to make the pastures what I want. 

I *am* starting to second guess my thought for having the barn-thing on the other property though. In trying to consider possible bad behaviors with feeding, part of me wants an option to be able to hang feed buckets over the fence so they aren't getting practice with being pushy with people for food. Putting the barn on the other side of the property means I would have to go the long way around or walk through the pasture. 

At least I have the opportunity to think about all these nuances now LOL


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## Baymule (Dec 26, 2015)

@lprybby we bought 8 acres with a doublewide on it. And that's _all_ there was. No fence, no barn, no nothing. We bought one of those "instant" metal carports. I have lumber stacked under it right now. We had our portable building moved up here. With the help of  a neighbor, we got about 2 acres fenced and we moved our horses. We moved in February.

Then the fencing began. It is slow work when first a path must be hacked, mowed and chainsawed through the wilderness. We got the last stretch cleared a few weeks ago and will finish the fence hopefully before spring. We built a hoop coop for the chickens, a hawg hut for the pigs. The garden is fenced and we have two other pastures fenced. We built a small shelter for the sheep. We are slowly getting a 36'x36 barn put up.

Carefully consider placement of fences, buildings, and gates. Set it up for maximum efficiency, movement of livestock and ease of use. Where you will be taking equipment through, hang 16' gates. Better to have too wide a gate and never need it, than too narrow a gate and need more room. Most of my gates are 12' and allow for pass through of my tractor. A few gates are 16' because of swing room for big tractors. So far, it was a good idea to hang the 16' gates. Cab tractors making round bale hay deliveries and dump trucks bringing in dirt and our truck and trailer have needed that extra room.

We are using 2"x4"x48" non climb horse wire in 200' rolls. We buy it at Tractor Supply, along with 7' T-posts. The wire is $220 a roll, there are cheaper types of wire out there, but  the horse wire is the way to go.

Place your barn so you can get to it without having to walk through the pasture. If you have hungry animals, an over protective mama cow/goat/sheep or a bull/ram/buck in breeding season, it could be dangerous to walk through "their" territory. The lady we bought our sheep from put feed troughs on the outside of the fence with a cow panel in front of it. The cow panel has 6" squares and the sheep can poke their heads through the holes and eat from the trough. When she shook the can of feed, it started a stampede.

Draw up a blueprint of fence, gates and barn/3 sided sheds. Is there a gully or creek to cross with the fence? Is there water run off to deal with? Is there hills to fence? Draw cross fences and gates. You can always change it, but having it on paper will help.


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## lpyrbby (Dec 27, 2015)

Fortunately, we're on fairly flat land. There are a couple of other concerns though, the more I stare at their property. One, the section they use for their driveway can get extremely muddy when it rains. I'm also pretty sure they don't haul their trash to the dump and instead, just burn it in the fire pit out in their yard. Another concern is the sheer number of vehicles he has in the yard, most not running. It's not an impossibility that things from those vehicles has leaked into the yard. I still want the land, but it probably would sit for quite some time before I'd be able to make use of it. 

We're planning on a three rail wood post fence with woven wire to help keep smaller critters in (we're only planning on chickens, goats, and at least one donkey/mule/horse, although I do want two). We're also planning on putting up gates with gate openers at both of our driveways. That will actually get done before any pastures or additional land purchase happens. We had a situation just before Thanksgiving where a small group of teenagers came strolling down our driveway with a four wheeler and golf cart. Fortunately, one of our neighbors is retired and raised holy hell at them so they left in a hurry. I'm pretty territorial and don't approve of unauthorized visitors lol. 

Sadly, that's all I have a firm idea on at the moment. Taking the adjacent property out of the equation, since ours is all we can actually work with at this time, I'm still having a hard time trying to decide the best layout of where things should go for efficiency and where things (like a garden) will actually thrive. 

I suppose it's a good thing we're not in a financial position to get started on all the things. It gives me a bit more time to try to sort out what I want and where I want it, and what we'll have to build to make it functional.


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## Baymule (Dec 27, 2015)

Our place was a HUD repo. The previous owners never had trash pick up. News flash! Earth to IDIOTS! GLASS AND CANS DON'T BURN!! Have picked up buckets and buckets of glass, beer bottles, cans and general garbage. And they had burn piles all over the place.  The list is endless....3 sofas, shoes, above ground pool liner, carpet, toys, picture frames, toilets, glass shower doors, SEVENTEEN HUNDRED POUNDS OF METAL truckloads of bagged garbage, 5 bedspring units, filth of all kinds. And there was a house here 50-60 years ago when the accepted practice was to have a burn pile-have found some very interesting things. I swear someday I will dig up an antique car!

Trust me, you will get it all cleaned up and it will look great. You want to use woven wire..... whatever you do, don't use welded wire. It is total crap and you might as well use toilet paper. Field fencing is another one that gets broken and torn up easily....ask me how I know..... Horses are hard on a fence and will paw it because they know how much it costs and how much work went into building it and because they have a perverse pleasure in seeing you do it all over again.


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