# Queen vs The LGD



## Greendecember (Nov 9, 2010)

Queenie pushes around the herd as expected. I sorta expect her pushing around the LGD who is a 10 month old anatolin / Pyr cross. It would not bother me except the pup yelps when she rams her inthe side. The dog has taken to laying down and even rolling on her back as  a sign of submission to Queenie.
Is this normal? Excessive? Should I worry that Queenie will hurt freckles?
Thanks


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## Roll farms (Nov 10, 2010)

A dominant goat is the BEST thing to show a young / new LGD who's the boss and what's acceptable.  
The dog is showing submission, that is a good thing.
If someone wasn't keeping the dog in check, it'd probably be chasing the less dominant goats and having fun times...which is bad for the goats.


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## ChksontheRun (Nov 10, 2010)

I am so glad to have 2 adult goats that keep the LGD pups in line.  Sometimes it seems a bit rough, but these dogs are (will be) strong and they need to learn respect for the goats while they are young.  They are learning very quickly when they can get close to the goats and when they can't.  It is ok at night when it is cold to curl up with all of the goats and stay warm in the barn, it is not ok to play with any of them and the queen and her partner make sure they know it.  Makes my training job much easier.


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## greenfamilyfarms (Nov 10, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> A dominant goat is the BEST thing to show a young / new LGD who's the boss and what's acceptable.
> The dog is showing submission, that is a good thing.
> If someone wasn't keeping the dog in check, it'd probably be chasing the less dominant goats and having fun times...which is bad for the goats.


We've found that to be true, also. Our male is very dominant over our female, which is still very much a puppy. He gets after her for acting up. If we did not have him, she would be a HAND FULL.


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## dianneS (Nov 10, 2010)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> A dominant goat is the BEST thing to show a young / new LGD who's the boss and what's acceptable.
> The dog is showing submission, that is a good thing.
> If someone wasn't keeping the dog in check, it'd probably be chasing the less dominant goats and having fun times...which is bad for the goats.


Oh, I agree.  My LGD pup was pushing the small goats around until we got a big doe who stood up to him!  She really helped to train him.  Without her, I think I would have ended up with a dominant dog who could have done some potential damage to my goats.  My pup would yelp too and submit to this goat.  He learned to stay out of her way to avoid confrontation until he got bigger.  Now the two of them play together and the dog doesn't yelp anymore.  He still submits and shows his belly when he's done playing and too worn out to keep up with the goat anymore.

I don't think I have such a great LGD today if it weren't for that goat showing him who is boss and how to fit into a goat herd.  I am very grateful to her!


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## Roll farms (Nov 10, 2010)

Someone was in my barn, exclaiming over Penny (my fav. doe) and how sweet and pretty she was...
Right about then Gus, our LGD in training, came in and I said, "She's also instrumental in keeping Gus in check."  
As if on cue, Penny saw him out of the corner of her eye, seemingly flew through the air and knocked him sideways, then trotted back over for more loving....as if beating up a dog who outweighs her is just all part of her charm....

Crazy goats....


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## Greendecember (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks for the insite. I did not think of it that way being a newbie and having access to all your experience is a huge boon! Thank you!


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## dianneS (Nov 11, 2010)

I have a similar situation with the tiniest doe in my herd.  She's actually the lowest in the hierarchy since she is so small.  Even new babies are only beneath her in the pecking order for a short time.  Once the babies out grow this little girl, she is soon pushed back to the bottom of the totem pole.  

Since this little doe has no one smaller than herself to push around, she keeps the cats "in check"!  She doesn't hurt them, and she doesn't have horns, but as soon as she spots a cat in her pasture or barn, you can see her eyes light up!  She can't wait to head butt that little cat! She will knock that cat over, or just lower her head and the cat runs away.  You can see she is so proud of herself and its the only time she ever shows any dominance toward anyone.  She has the cats trained now to stay out of her way, but I still feel bad for her that she has no one to push around and only _gets _pushed around.

I thought about getting her a ball?  Maybe she'd head butt that?


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## Greendecember (Nov 11, 2010)

I'd suggest getting her a Pygmy but then it would be low goat and have to pick on the goats. I shouldn't laugh but the image of the cats face when that goat charges makes me giggle. 
My dog is already bigger than both does. Freckles has another 50+ pounds to grow into. Seeing a dog twice the size of Queen cowering to her is going to look even more silly. 
It wouldn't be so bad if Freckles didn't yelp when Queen charges her. I'm always afraid the dog is going to end up with a broken rib. I saw the babies bumping her with their horns today.


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## KinderKorner (Nov 28, 2010)

My friend has problems with her 'queen' butting her dogs (and other goats) and she had a simple solution. She put a small bell on Queenie and now she can't sneak up and pound someone. They all know the sound and can do evasive manuvers to prevent getting smashed up against something.


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## Greendecember (Nov 29, 2010)

KinderKorner said:
			
		

> My friend has problems with her 'queen' butting her dogs (and other goats) and she had a simple solution. She put a small bell on Queenie and now she can't sneak up and pound someone. They all know the sound and can do evasive manuvers to prevent getting smashed up against something.


I see bells in Queen's future  Thanks


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## jodief100 (Nov 29, 2010)

Thanks for the bell idea!  I have a buck that is nice as can be until you turn your back.  Then he head butts you in the behind.  It is getting difficult to fill the hay rack in his pen.  If I put a bell on him then I get a warning when he is sneaking up behind me.


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## Greendecember (Nov 29, 2010)

jodief100 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the bell idea!  I have a buck that is nice as can be until you turn your back.  Then he head butts you in the behind.  It is getting difficult to fill the hay rack in his pen.  If I put a bell on him then I get a warning when he is sneaking up behind me.


Even better use of the idea never thought of it for my safety. 
The whole time I was trimming Queen's hooves (first time I ever trimmed hooves was this weekend) Her daughter kept acting like I was killing her Mom and I thought for sure she was gonna ram me a couple times. I think she is getting a bell too. 

I wonder if I can find enough bells that sound different enough and train myself to know who to look out for LOL


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