# A Little Help With Goat Dewormers



## madelynmccabe (Jul 17, 2016)

Hi guys!! I'm back again with another question. My babies are just reaching the age for some dewormer. I'm thinking about buying the Dumor brand. That comes in the bucket-type package. It's online at TSC. But when I buy it, how often should I given it to them and how much at a time? Should I put it in their daily grains? I would estimate that they are about 20-30 pounds, but definitely still growing. They should be near 100 pounds when they are fully grown. Any answers would be great!!! And if you guys don't like the dewormer I picked out, please tell me about any better dewormers I could buy, thanks!

Madelyn


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## NH homesteader (Jul 17, 2016)

Is it the stuff that's in a pellet form?


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## madelynmccabe (Jul 17, 2016)

Yes


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## NH homesteader (Jul 17, 2016)

My limited experience was not good. I have no idea if it works because my goats won't eat it! I liked the idea of a pellet but there are two reasons I tried it once and threw out the bag-first is that it is so difficult to measure out the right amount,  especially if you don't have a good scale.  Second is you have to give them a lot of pellets and of my 8 goats,  not one would eat the quantity they needed to! Now other people have given it better reviews elsewhere so maybe I have picky goats,  haha.  I don't even remember which types of worms it treats or have any idea if it works if your goats will eat it so maybe someone else could weigh in on that!


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## babsbag (Jul 17, 2016)

Personally I wouldn't use the pellets as you can't ever really know that they got enough, unless you feed them separately. The best way to worm is to get a fecal done by your vet or learn to do your own and only worm when needed. There is a growing resistance to dewormers so we need to use them judiciously. Ivermectin is a very common dewormer for barber pole worms, and some other worms as well. You buy the injectable meds and give it orally to the goat. I use 2cc/100lbs but your vet should be the one to give you a dosage. You really need to know if you have worms and what kind, it is the best and safest route.


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## Kaye (Jul 17, 2016)

This is just a random question I have, well, a couple of questions. Maybe it could help, too...
I've always used safeguard for my horses, but I have seen A LOT of debate on here about it. No real conclusions, but a lot of debate.
Does it work?? It does for my horses, but what about the goat kind?? Can I use the one for horses for a goat??
Is there something better??


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## madelynmccabe (Jul 17, 2016)

@Kaye I have heard that you should never use things for horses on goats, as it could cause serious harm, but I can't be sure. Maybe these people could help you. 
@babsbag @Latestarter @NH homesteader 

@babsbag I do feed my goats in seperate bowls. They usually do not eat each others. They are pretty good about that.


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## NH homesteader (Jul 17, 2016)

Kaye you will probably get answers both ways,  and more debate! Haha, I am using it right now so I'll get back to you once I prove that it did or did not work.  In the meantime there are tons of posts on here about safeguard and dewormers in general.  It is my current primary goat challenge that I have spent far far too much  time thinking about haha! 

As for using horse dewormer on goats,  I don't know.  It may be the same thing labeled differently or it may have different ingredients. 

Madelynmccabe,  seriously? You can get your goats to leave each other's food alone? Mine are so not that cooperative.  I had to take one at a time out of the pen to feed them their pellets when I tried that dewormer!


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## NH homesteader (Jul 17, 2016)

Kaye you will probably get answers both ways,  and more debate! Haha, I am using it right now so I'll get back to you once I prove that it did or did not work.  In the meantime there are tons of posts on here about safeguard and dewormers in general.  It is my current primary goat challenge that I have spent far far too much  time thinking about haha! 

As for using horse dewormer on goats,  I don't know.  It may be the same thing labeled differently or it may have different ingredients. 

Madelynmccabe,  seriously? You can get your goats to leave each other's food alone? Mine are so not that cooperative.  I had to take one at a time out of the pen to feed them their pellets when I tried that dewormer!


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## madelynmccabe (Jul 17, 2016)

@NH homesteader I just put the bowls far apart and put one goat at each bowl. Whenever they tried to move to the other bowl to steal food I would just take them back to their food bowl. It took about 2 weeks of sitting with them and monitoring but they eventually did it!! So no more stealing food for my goats! Now they will stay at their own bowls even if I'm not around, it just takes some patience and time. They are really smart and learn quickly, just like dogs!


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## babsbag (Jul 17, 2016)

I have 40 goats so individual feeding is out of the question LOL

@Kaye  The general consensus among my friends on Safeguard for goats is that if you use it at 3-4 times the dose listed on the bottle  for 3 days in a row it works. I am fortunate to live in area where worms are pretty much a non-issue. Our pastures are dry all summer and no standing water in the winter so I use Safeguard only for tape worms.


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## Kaye (Jul 18, 2016)

@babsbag why does everyone say to use so much more??
I will try to do a little more research... But what other is a good alternative to safeguard?
I'm pretty sure Elvis wouldn't eat pellet form... He's the pickiest goat in the world. I'm just thinking I want something easy to administer and trusted.
@NH homesteader please let me know what you think!!


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## babsbag (Jul 18, 2016)

I believe that the reason is because goats have a much higher metabolism and most drugs have to be dosed at higher rates to work effectively. This dosage is what was suggested by my vet and by the vets of other members of BYH. The dose on the bottle is what is used on cattle, which works for cattle, but it doesn't work on a goat.

I cc. / 10lbs. for 3 days and if really wormy repeat in 10 days. 

Personally I  have and will worm with Ivermectin, it is much easier. But again, worms are not really an issue for me; at least Barber Pole worms aren't. Tapes on the other hand...


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## NH homesteader (Jul 18, 2016)

If you search through the forums there is a ton of information about dewormers! I also used Safeguard at 1cc/10 lbs...  Haven't done another fecal yet,  since my worm issue just happened.


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## Southern by choice (Jul 18, 2016)

madelynmccabe said:


> I have heard that you should never use things for horses on goats, as it could cause serious harm, but I can't be sure.



There are some dewormers that are used on multi-species.
Fenbendazole is one. It is used on goats, sheep, cattle, horses, dogs,and cats.
Ivermectin is another.

It is knowing what dosage is appropriate.



NH homesteader said:


> Kaye you will probably get answers both ways, and more debate! Haha, I am using it right now so I'll get back to you once I prove that it did or did not work. In the meantime there are tons of posts on here about safeguard and dewormers in general. It is my current primary goat challenge that I have spent far far too much time thinking about haha!



The debate factor is really kind of silly. 
I hear all the time "such and such doesn't work" or "in our region such and such no longer works because of resistance."

The use of dewormers and resistance and it's efficacy are all related to producer following good practice.

To say something no longer works is a very broad statement and is bad information. 

Reasons why resistance develops is because of improper weighing of animal. Underdosing. Improper course of treatment.
There are 3 classes of dewormers and they work differently.
When not used properly there may not be any resistance but may prove ineffective because the treatment protocol was incorrect.

Fecal analysis is important.
Proper dosage and COURSE of treatment is important.
Fecal counts prior to treatment  and again after will show you reduction. You want 95% or better.

Barberpole and Flukes are both bloodsuckers. Both cause anemia.
So, someone looking at eyelids and no fecal decides to treat with Ivermectin.... hmmm ivermectin didn't work....
That person is now convinced Ivermectin doesn't work.
What the person didn't know because there was no fecal done, is that the goat didn't have barberpole but had FLUKES which is NOT treated with Ivermectin. A different dewormer is necessary.

The reason we are seeing these dewormers becoming ineffective is overuse, and laziness on the producers part.

Sometimes people deworm thinking the goat has worms and it may not be the issue at all.
Goat starts with loose or soft poo and suddenly it must be parasites but sstill they do no fecal. So the person loads them up with dewormer. Goat progressively gets worse , diarrhea ensues, more dewormer but no fecal....

So the kitchen sink is thrown at the goat and nothing. Producer is convinced those dewormers don't work, once again. But they never looked at WHAT was the issue.

We recently had a goat that started with loose poo... I ran the fecal. 1 parasitic egg which is 25EPG, and 0 cocci. Goat doesn't have parasites! Called vet gave info vet prescribed an antibiotic.
We gave injections for 5 days. It was some sort of bacterial infection was best guess by vet. Goat cleared up all is well. 

IOW no amount of dewormer was going to solve the issue and if the goat wasn't treated properly the goat after so long with diarrhea would have died. 

Never go by the "such and such doesn't work".... each goat, each, farm, individual management is what makes the difference.


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## NH homesteader (Jul 18, 2016)

I was trying to figure out how to tag you,  glad you found this post! I think there is a lack of good goat vets and general lack of knowledge about this particular issue.  Also in many areas like mine it is cost prohibitive to pay a vet for all these fecals and when there also aren't any breeders like you nearby who will help people learn these things it's so hard to find your way!


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## Southern by choice (Jul 18, 2016)

I strongly recommend getting a scope. This is never to replace VETERINARY care. It is a tool used for herd management. When first learning to do fecals it is best to take the same sample you are working with and send it in to a lab or vet etc so you can see how you are doing. 

Over time as you get to know your goats you will not need to run  as many. It will however be a great tool in management.
You will find eventually you will pull your scope out at certain times. Maybe before breeding, before kidding, post kidding. You wwill definitely want one when it comes time for kids!


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## babsbag (Jul 18, 2016)

I am fortunate to have a friend that for years has been running fecals and teaching how to do them; she runs mine whenever I think there might be a problem. We seldom hear of or see liver flukes or lung worms as we don't have the snail and standing water problem. In someways my hot dry summers are a blessing. Cocci, which isn't a worm per se, is what we usually find in kids and on a rare occasion in adults.  My big causes of un-thrifty looking goats are selenium and copper deficiency; we all have our challenges.

@NH homesteader ...to tag someone you put an @ in front of their username, no space.


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## NH homesteader (Jul 18, 2016)

Oh well that's not very complicated now is it? I live without a computer or WiFi so thefact that my phone even lets me use this site is amazing haha.


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## Kaye (Jul 18, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> I strongly recommend getting a scope. This is never to replace VETERINARY care. It is a tool used for herd management. When first learning to do fecals it is best to take the same sample you are working with and send it in to a lab or vet etc so you can see how you are doing.
> 
> Over time as you get to know your goats you will not need to run  as many. It will however be a great tool in management.
> You will find eventually you will pull your scope out at certain times. Maybe before breeding, before kidding, post kidding. You wwill definitely want one when it comes time for kids!


That sounds so cool!! I have a scope, but it a pretty cheap one and I can't find parts for it. One of the lenses broke. I will definitely be getting a new one. Now I just need someone to teach me. This could really come in handy with Baby (or special needs goat) when his feet problems flare up... I could do my own research and try to find some answers!! Not only our goats, but with our rabbits, chickens, and turkeys as well 


babsbag said:


> I am fortunate to have a friend that for years has been running fecals and teaching how to do them; she runs mine whenever I think there might be a problem. We seldom hear of or see liver flukes or lung worms as we don't have the snail and standing water problem. In someways my hot dry summers are a blessing. Cocci, which isn't a worm per se, is what we usually find in kids and on a rare occasion in adults.  My big causes of un-thrifty looking goats are selenium and copper deficiency; we all have our challenges.
> 
> @NH homesteader ...to tag someone you put an @ in front of their username, no space.


I'm jealous. I need a friend like this who lives close by and can teach me this wisdom!!


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## babsbag (Jul 18, 2016)

Yes, my friend is a blessing in many ways. I have an awesome dairy goat club that has made me some great like minded friends and it sure makes life easier.


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## Southern by choice (Jul 18, 2016)

Kaye said:


> That sounds so cool!! I have a scope, but it a pretty cheap one and I can't find parts for it. One of the lenses broke. I will definitely be getting a new one. Now I just need someone to teach me. This could really come in handy with Baby (or special needs goat) when his feet problems flare up... I could do my own research and try to find some answers!! Not only our goats, but with our rabbits, chickens, and turkeys as well
> 
> I'm jealous. I need a friend like this who lives close by and can teach me this wisdom!!



You will need a compound scope with a mechanical stage.
Also the McMasters Slides. 
I think I listed recommended scope and slides under one of my articles... pretty sure.
I like Chalix for my slides/beakers. They will last forever. 

There may be those around you that teach.


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## Kaye (Jul 18, 2016)

Or I can just ask all my crazy questions here if no one teaches. Lol
As soon as payday gets here I will be buying a new scope!!!


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## Latestarter (Jul 19, 2016)

Southern did a three part article series here on the site about this very subject. At the top of the page, click the tab "Articles" and you sould be able to find them straight away. If there isn't sufficient info there to help you, combine it with internet searches/You Tube searches and you'll be a pro in no time at all. You might also ask a few friends if they know any Vet techs who might be willing to teach/help you learn.


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## madelynmccabe (Jul 21, 2016)

Thanks for all the info guys!! I called my vet a couple months ago to do vaccines but he didn't have the medication. He just called a few days ago to tell me he has them. So I'm just going to let him worm them and do their CD&T shot. This will be happening on Monday and I'm sure there will be two screaming, unhappy goats!


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