# Legal troubles regarding escaped cattle? *UPDATE*



## dianneS

Has anyone ever had any legal troubles, with neighbors etc regarding their cattle escaping?

My brother's father-in-law has cattle and recently a kid on a 4-wheeler hit and killed a loose steer on the road near his house.  It was verified that the steer did not belong to my brother's father-in-law (the steer was too clean and well cared for to be his).  

The kid on the 4-wheeler was under age for driving an ATV and he was on a public road which is illegal!  The kids parents are suing my brother's father-in-law anyway to the tune of $35,000 for "pain and suffering".  

First of all, they are suing the wrong person, second, this poor old man is literally dirt poor, lives in a shack with a leaking roof, plaster and insulation hanging down into the living space and can't heat his house above 55 degrees!  The attorney advised him to just try and settle out of court for $10k, since court costs and attorney's fees as well as an investigation to prove it wasn't his steer, would cost more than ten grand!

I think this is just horrible, these people have nothing but an old shack, some skinny cattle and some land.  Their kids and grandkids are being no help at all.  Is there anything that can be done?  This is a totally frivolous lawsuit and just shouldn't even be allowed to be entertained at all.

Is there any legal cousel that deals with specific issues like this?  It just makes me so mad!  I wish I could do more to help them.


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## Sara

Let me get this straight you are saying a kid on a 4 wheeler hit a steer an killed it?  Is the kid alive?


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## dianneS

Yeah, I know its crazy!  How could a four-wheeler kill a steer?  But that is what I was told.  Maybe a small young steer?  The kid is alive, but apparently suffering $35,000 worth of suffering anyway!


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## DonnaBelle

I know that here in Oklahoma if you have a cow/steer/calf out it's on a public roadway and someone hits it you are liable for any damages incurred.

However, I am sure circumstances would prevail.  If it cannot be proven who the cow belongs to, it would be impossible to lay blame.  This is why some people don't ID their cattle, because all fences can get down, especially during an ice storm,etc.

Yes, you will have to get a good attorney to represent you.  If it goes to court, you will need someone on your side. 

Having said that, it's rather hard to get blood out of a turnip, so to speak.  

Good luck,

It's always something.

DonnaBelle


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## ohiofarmgirl

yep its a real thing - can you believe it?

my insurance co told me sternly that if our livestock got out on the road then its totally on me, my problem, my responsibility etc etc

all our bigger stock is in the back of the property and we fence fence fence like mad. 

crazy world, huh?

the BIL father should check with his home owners. farm-for-profit properties are insured differently than regular homes (like mine - since we dont farm for profit we are not farm-insured). i believe there is a thing called a fire/umbrella policy that protects the insured if someone like this sues them. 

wow thats a bad situation all around. sorry to hear


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## dianneS

The unfortunate thing is that he has absolutely no insurance at all whatsoever.  No health, property, farm, homeowners, car insurance, life insurance, you name it, he has none.  These people are as poor as poor and no one cares at all.

Its so upsetting, since its not even his steer!  I would love to get a hold of these people and just ask them what they think they are trying to do?  Their 14 year old son is already breaking the law, and with parents setting examples like this, with frivolous lawsuits, the kid doesn't stand a chance at turning out like a decent human being.  He'll probably be in prison by 18.

I just wish there was more that could be done for a dirt poor farmer and his elderly wife.  They literally have nothing but their shack, some cattle and their land.  Their land is all they have of any value.  They will have to sell some just to settle this lawsuit out of court.  If they can sell any land in this economy.


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## hooligan

Ok, so does anyone have a clue as to who the steer belonged to?


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## Sara

I'm still struggling with how this kid on a 4-wheeler hit and killed a steer, but is still well enough to file a lawsuit.  I know the damage a cow can do to a vehicle, the damage even a deer does to a truck.  I can't imagine how someone could hit one with a 4-wheeler and walk away.  But regardless of that, if it's not this poor farmers animal, how can they sue him, wouldn't they have to be able to prove it belonged to him?  Are there other neighboring farms with cattle?


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## jhm47

There are lawyers who take such cases as this on a "pro bono" (meaning no charge)  basis.  I would check with your local social services agencies to see if they could refer you to one.  Barring that, make sure that the defendant goes to court and explains to the judge what has actually happened.  Many times judges will throw out a frivolous case like this, and the defendant does not even need a lawyer.

PS.  In some states there is an "open range" law.  This law makes it the driver's fault if he hits domestic livestock on the road, and the driver must pay the owner for damages.  I don't know what state you're in, but you might want to check up on this.


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## dianneS

There is another farm nearby and they think that is where the steer came from.  I still can't fathom how a four wheeler could kill a steer either!


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## countrywife

If it wasn't his animal, he has no liability. Someone has to prove the ownership of the steer. Someone else should check the steer for bullets- I find it hard to fathom a four wheeler killed it. When your brother father in law, or whatever, is served with papers, go see an attorney. If its not his steer, its not his liability. End of lawsuit.


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## Lil Chickie Mama

Don't know if this helps, but when my FIL's wife filed a restraining order against him that was proven that she was lying about everything except her name (the judge even called her a liar!) he was able to make her pay for the lawyer fees and everything because she wasted his time and the court's time based upon lies.

I hope for the sake of you brother's FIL that this doesn't go to court, but if it does and he is able to prove that it wasn't his steer and they knew it, maybe he won't be held responsible for the fees, but it is something you have to specifically request it from the judge.


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## dianneS

They crazy thing is that the attorney already said that an investigation to prove that it wasn't his steer + court costs, attorneys fees,etc, would cost him more than settling out of court for $10,000!  I think that is outrageous, but it looks like that is what may happen.  These people may walk away with ten grand from an old man who can't afford it, and didn't do anything wrong!  What a crazy world we live in.


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## ksalvagno

I really don't understand how someone can just say who owns the steer without proving it. That makes no sense to me. Aren't the police investigating who really owns the steer? If this is what it is coming to, we are all in grave danger.


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## countrywife

Well Im sorry. I have worked in the legal business for 20 years- he needs to go see another attorney. That is bull that he has to settle. ITS NOT HIS ANIMAL! Somebody has to prove it is. Even here people mark thier cattle, so somebody needs to go find out. Have your brother go help the old man. Where is the steer now. What is the proof that the accident happened? Who else in the area owns cattle? All these things you can find out without an investigator. And yes, in most states, if a lawsuit is felonious filed the filer will have to pay all the fees.


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## jhm47

Countrywife is right.  The burden of proof as to the owner is on the plaintiff, NOT the defendant.  Get another lawyer.


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## dianneS

countrywife said:
			
		

> Well Im sorry. I have worked in the legal business for 20 years- he needs to go see another attorney. That is bull that he has to settle. ITS NOT HIS ANIMAL! Somebody has to prove it is. Even here people mark thier cattle, so somebody needs to go find out. Have your brother go help the old man. Where is the steer now. What is the proof that the accident happened? Who else in the area owns cattle? All these things you can find out without an investigator. And yes, in most states, if a lawsuit is felonious filed the filer will have to pay all the fees.


I agree, he should get another lawyer.  I know that the attorney they met with is kind of an idiot.  I just figured, he was all they could afford?  I'll see what we can do to help this guy out, since his kids and grandkids are no help.  They are using this situation to their advantage, to intimidate the old man into giving them land in exchange for them paying the settlement out of court!  Its disgusting what some people are capable of doing... and to their own family too!


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## dianneS

It seems as though the people filing the lawsuit are going after this poor old man in big way.  They've hired one of the biggest law firms in the state and they may try and take him for everything he's got, which is his farmland since he has nothing else.

Apparently he is "guilty until proven innocent" because once all of the neighbors heard about the lawsuit, they are all denying that its their steer as well.  Although, the neighbor right next door made the call to the rendering plant to have the carcass hauled away.  I don't think he was just trying to be neighborly, that seems like an admission of guilt to me.

Also the people doing the suing are really trashy people (you'd have to be to pull something like this!) and they are seeing this as their big break to get rich quick!  Disgusting.


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## mommy_2_parks

You are right, that is disgusting! My prayers are with that man and I hope this gets solved in a just and fair way. I cant believe what the world is coming to...


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## Imissmygirls

I hope someone took pictures of the carcass. Was there any eartag on it? Any ID at all? Who authorized the neighbor to call for its removal? Destroying evidence? If it was homegrown, DNA or bloodwork could prove parentage...but of course, if it's gone

And i am sure the law firm took the case on a contingency basis. They may not assign it to a major partner, but the firm bigwigs know the judges.  Don't worry... the law firm will take the land in judgment. I've known lawyers that *acquire* land that way.
Perhaps they figure the old guy is easy prey.
Sounds like SOME lawyer is gonna make $$ outta this.


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## dianneS

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> Perhaps they figure the old guy is easy prey.
> Sounds like SOME lawyer is gonna make $$ outta this.


I think they do see this old guy as easy prey.  I'm sure that the law firm did take the case on a contingency basis.  They are one of those firms that advertizes on TV all the time about how they don't collect any legal fees until "you win your case!"

I don't know who authorized the removal of the carcass, no one I imagine.  I think when Cleatus looked at the steer and verified it wasn't his, he thought it was all over.  I don't think it had an ear tag.  Actually, now that I think about it, I believe they said it was a bull, not a steer?  Maybe it was a young, small bull?  I still don't see how the fact that the kid was breaking the law driving an ATV underaged and on a public road, can't play into it somehow?


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## jhm47

I repeat---there are attorneys who take on such cases with no charge.  Contact your local social services personnel, and get them to refer you to one of them.  

The burden of proof as to who owned the steer/bull is on the plaintiff, NOT the defendant.  Actually, you should not even need an attorney on this, just go to court and claim that the animal was not his.  The plaintiff's attorney will need to hire someone to prove that the animal was actually owned by the defendant.  He will not want to do that, and I really doubt that he will continue the case very long when he finds out that he will actually have to do some work for his fee.


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## promiselandfarm

Sounds like they are after his land and know he is poor. HE really needs someone in that area who knows agriculture law. Here in Tennessee if someone hits a cow or other farm animals that is out on the road it is the drivers responsibility as they did not have control of their vehicle. Find a lawyer and counter sue which may help them to stop them also have him request something be done about the boy driving a ATV illegally on the road which is hazardous to all the neighbors. He can pay lawyers payments if he has to but if he can get a good one he needs to or he may loose what little he has and be homeless.


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## countrywife

What actual paperwork do you have that this man is being sued? Even crappy firms know not to file a friviolous (sp?) lawsuit. Has he actually been served a complaint, or is this what he is being told? Becuause if there is an actualy filed complaint he only has 30 days to respond or lose by default. Call Legal Aid- if you can't find it, pm me where you are and I will find it.


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## LavacaW

Since when is it law that one must be represented by an attorney in court in this country?  Can you imagine any jury ruling against this old man if he tells his story... You obviously have a computer and the internet and probably access to a library.  Help him!  You cannot represent him but he CAN represent himself.


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## farmgirljen

Is there any kind of police report in regards to this incident? Someone needs to find out- also someone needs to find out if the steer was in an open range area. If the steer was in fact in an open range area, then the guy can actually sue them for damages, loss of his steer, etc. If there is no police report, then they can not actually prove the incident happened in the first place. Without any documentation of the incident, they will have a hard time proving that the kid did in fact hit and kill a steer. Not to mention proving whose it was in the first place- and of course no one is going to own up to who it actually belonged to since htere is talk of a law suit over it...


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## jhm47

What was the actual outcome on this?  Please update us.


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## dianneS

Everything is still pending at this time.  No outcome yet.

I've tried to talk sense to the family and they won't listen, his kids don't seem to care what happens to the old man, so I can't really get myself stressed over it.

The old man's oldest son, who has a college education and a decent job, has finally gotten involved.  I don't know if he's been much help or not.

I will try and find out what is happening at this stage of the game and give you a better update, but I do know that there has not been a settlement yet.


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## Royd Wood

Glad this post has come to light again for us new members as I have nightmares about escaped cows / horses. We have all new fence around the place and should be ok but I keep checking.

I do hope the family support the old boy and what a fiasco for someone his age when its not even his beast


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## dianneS

Well, here is the update on the old man and the steer that wasn't his.

He paid a settlement to the people, even though they couldn't prove that it was his steer, and he coudn't prove that it was not.

I guess he sold some land, or timber or cattle to come up with the funds.   The people who were suing him wanted $35,000, but they may have settled for less.

I know it doesn't make sense, but with these uneducated people and country lawyers, not much does makes sense around those parts.

The kid on the ATV was under aged, riding an unlicensed vehicle on a township road, and was driving it after dark and wrecklessly.  And these people get to walk away with a wad of cash?  Doesn't make much sense, but this is how it all ended.

The old man is still in his falling down shack of a house and caught some type of respiratory illness from climbing up inside his old moldy silo.  Now he's coughing up black stuff and will probably be dead soon anyway.

Its really sad, but what can one do?


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## ksalvagno

That is really a shame. But everyone reaps what they sow. Those people will too.


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## SweetDreams

I don't know about anyone else here...

But I'd like to know where this happened.

Care to share?


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## dianneS

SweetDreams said:
			
		

> I don't know about anyone else here...
> 
> But I'd like to know where this happened.
> 
> Care to share?


Central Pennsylvania.  Northwestern Juniata county, I think?  Pretty much right smack in the middle of the state.


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## dianneS

Okay *UPDATE*!!

They did NOT end up settling out of court.  They allowed these people to continue with their frivolous lawsuit.

Since then, the old farmer has died, which left his poor old wife who was just in and out of the hospital with health problems to deal with this mess.

The whole thing went to court and they had a JURY TRIAL!!  The farmer's wife had many other farmers in the area show up as character witnesses on her behalf.  I don't know any details of the trial.  All I know is that SHE WON!  She's off the hook!

Its a huge relief that justice was served.  She was not at fault and I'm so glad these people weren't able to unfairly profit off of her.  Its just a shame that the people who filed this lawsuit aren't required to pay back the old ladies legal fees for filing such a ridiculous claim in the first place?  That would be justice!


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## aggieterpkatie

I'm sorry to hear your bro's FIL died, but relieved to hear his wife won!!  Now she should counter sue THEM for $35,000 worth of pain, suffering, and lawyer's fees!!!


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## Royd Wood

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

> I'm sorry to hear your bro's FIL died, but relieved to hear his wife won!!  Now she should counter sue THEM for $35,000 worth of pain, suffering, and lawyer's fees!!!


X 2 - go get em, someone tried it with me a good few years ago and it got thrown out of court but it makes you so ill esp when you know their lying through their teeth

Thanks for the update dianneS


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## CochinBrahmaLover=)

Sad to hear your bro's FIL died, but glad his wife won! Those people... Ugh, DISGUSTING! Their kid should be in Juvy (sp?) !!!!!!

His wife should counter sue. My friend was sued by her crazy neigbor (he was crazy) and anyone supporting him wasnt right. Anywho, she got the most expensive lawyer she could (i think he was $300 an hour?) cause she knew she would win, and she did, so he payed all the fines. Might seem mean to ruin him like that, but he was crazy, and needed to be n jail (pretty sad when your on a first name basias with the cops cause the some so much). Im pretty sure she counter sued, and won. That poor mans wie needs the money if she counter sues, even if it is to just pay the fines.


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## ourflockof4

Although not totally related to this, just a small word of wisdom I would like to pass along. In may areas you can get a farm rider on your homeowners insurance policy for a very reasonable price. I think our was something like $65/year. It basically extends your home liabiltlity to anything farm related. I dont remember all of the exact details, but I think it covers you to farm up to 50 acres, and within 15 miles of your home farm. Although it is geared more for small farmers, it would also cover individuals with livestock. It isn't a commercial farm policy that will cover equipment, animals, or product, but it will cover your liability for anything you, your animals, or kids may do.

Talk to your local insurance provider, I think ours is called a "incidental farm policy". IMO it is very cheap insurance for what it does.


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## greybeard

ourflockof4 said:
			
		

> Although not totally related to this, just a small word of wisdom I would like to pass along. In may areas you can get a farm rider on your homeowners insurance policy for a very reasonable price. I think our was something like $65/year. It basically extends your home liabiltlity to anything farm related. I dont remember all of the exact details, but I think it covers you to farm up to 50 acres, and within 15 miles of your home farm. Although it is geared more for small farmers, it would also cover individuals with livestock. It isn't a commercial farm policy that will cover equipment, animals, or product, but it will cover your liability for anything you, your animals, or kids may do.
> 
> Talk to your local insurance provider, I think ours is called a "incidental farm policy". IMO it is very cheap insurance for what it does.


I looked into one of these once, and was told it only covered damages done by farm related events and animals on MY property. 
IOW, if a neighbor is here and gets kicked by one of my cows or bitten by my geese, I'm covered. One of my cows gets out on the highway, a bicyclist hits it and kills the cow and suffers a cut lip, bent rim, and skinned elbow, I'm liable for the bent rim, cut lip and scraped elbow..

(Yep--how DOES a 4 wheeler kill a steer and live to tell about it and sue?)

I'm so very glad this worked out for the widow of the man that didn't own the steer that got out of someone else's pasture and fence that was hit by an underage driver operating an unregistered and unauthorized vehicle on a public road. 

What a screwed up mess.
I think I'll just stay in Texas and take my chances with the Chupabra.


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## kfacres

Each state should have a fence law-- would be a good thing for you to find and read just for the heck of it...

Good, farmer oriented insurance companies should also cover these types of things- atleast our does.


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