# Nigerian Dwarfs



## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 11, 2013)

I have *finally* decided on what breed to get - Nigerian Dwarfs. I have a couple questions for keeping the little cuties - 

How high does their pen have to be? (The pen is roughly 5000 square feet. Big enough?) 
How much approximately do they eat? (Hay, pelleted feed, etc.) 

Thanks!


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 11, 2013)

Get 4' tall woven wire.  

5000 sf is a good size for 2 or 3 animals.

Sheep Girl has a formula for how much hay they need, but her's may be standard goats.

We have a dry lot, no pasture.  Ours go through a round bale of coastal hay every couple of weeks.  And, we don't just put it out for it to get rained and pooped on.  We flake it off an  put it in feeders.  You're in Iowa, so alfalfa is probably cheaper there.  We supplement our lactating does with alfalfa hay, but it's pretty expensive here.

Feed depends.  More when they are expecting kids or lactating.  Feeding isn't one size fits all.
I've got a doe who had quads and dam raised them.   She still has one on her now and she's pretty thin at this point, so we feed her more.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 11, 2013)

Thank you. I might go with 6' just to be safe. (It's just as easy as 4' for me.) Do you have an opinion at all on DuMor goat feed? I don't have many choices for grain.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 11, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> Thank you. I might go with 6' just to be safe. (It's just as easy as 4' for me.) Do you have an opinion at all on DuMor goat feed? I don't have many choices for grain.


I don't have an opinion on the feed.  We buy a local mix that is really made for cows.  It doesn't have the "ideal" protein for goats, but we've never been accused of having "underconditioned" animals.  The last time we showed, we had two that the judge said were "fleshy". A nice way of saying "too fat" 

I think another  term is "excess flesh"


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 11, 2013)

Oh, by the way.
Buy registered animals who do not have horns.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 13, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 13, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

> Oh, by the way.
> Buy registered animals who do not have horns.


Ok, thanks. *makes mental note.*


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 13, 2013)

Do you think I should worm/vaccinate my goats when I first get them? Or should I ask the person I am buying them from if they are up to date?


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 13, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

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Oh, I do not how it is in Iowa, but here they really need to be AGS or ADGA registered.

If they are NDGA or MDGA registered without being cross registered in AGS or ADGA they might as well not be registerd.

Again, I do not know the market there/.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 13, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> Do you think I should worm/vaccinate my goats when I first get them? Or should I ask the person I am buying them from if they are up to date?


I would find out if they were up to date on CD&T vaccine, and their worming history.

I would take fecals before I did any worming to find out if and what kind of worms they may have.  That way you would know what type of wormer to use.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 13, 2013)

Are you looking to buy kids or Jrs or older animals?

Our first 3 girls were 2 and 3 month old kids.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 13, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

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Ok, I'll take a fecal first and ask about the CD&T. What kind of goats do you have? (Just curious.


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## Moonshine (Jul 13, 2013)

Are you planning on showing your goats?


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## Southern by choice (Jul 13, 2013)

Unless you are showing or planning on needing a high producing dairy milk goat unregistered goats are fine. 

Although I have referred One Fine to many people here in NC,_ I strongly disagree with his philosophy_. I do however respect his care and health practices, I also believe One Fine is knowledgeable and has a great deal to offer.  Goat owners do not all share the same end goals. Self-sustainability for our family is  priority on our farm so showing or building a name or line isn't our goal. For others it may be their goal.  

For every one person that I know that "needs" high production animals or that shows there are many many more that do not.

Look at your overall goals and the future of where you are heading. Registered animals do NOT guarantee good health or practices.

Many of the dairies here in NC are not even using "registered" stock.

If you are looking to have high production then certainly seek out those high production lines, as well, if you intend on showing the same goes.

The overwhelming majority of goat owners want pets, brush clearers, and may or may not ever milk. Many that do milk may find they have too much and don't know what to do with it all, some end up not having the time. Those are things to think about.

Looking for those that do at least CAE testing would be good. 
Parasite resistance and history is also important. gathering a fecal and having it tested is beneficial. 
The goat really should also have been vaccinated with a CD&T

We have registered and unregistered stock.  Our goats are not perpetually bred... we breed only to bring a doe into milk. Our goats are going to great pet homes. We test for CAE and Johnnes. We also do our own fecal health monitoring. If I have someone looking for starred dairy lines or need high production or want to show I will refer them out to others. Hopefully you can find a breeder that will help you with your specific needs. Unregistered stock also does not mean the animals are not coming from good lineage.  

Unless you are showing, dis-budding is simply a choice. Overwhelmingly my owners do not want their kids dis-budded. They will take them polled (naturally born with no horns) or horned. I personally just had my first mini-mancha dis-budded. It isn't my normal practice.

How many animals does the breeder have, what environment are they in? Dry lot, pastured etc.  This gives you an idea of the animals. Animals that tend to be dry-lotted without pasture and natural forage _may_ tend to have difficulty in transitioning to a pastured / forage environment. They are use to being  fed as opposed to living off the land and being supplemented with healthy feed.  Another problem is *actual* parasite resistance. Animals "dry-lotted that do not eat off the ground may have low egg counts but it may not necessarily be a good parasite resistant animal, it hasn't had to show its resistance. Animals raised on the land that eat off the ground and show consistent  low counts are proving good parasite resistance. 

You will LOVE the Nigerian Dwarf! They really are wonderful. and we have 3 different kinds of goats here... and my fav is still the dwarf!


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 13, 2013)

I am looking for a pet, not planning on showing. Milk would be nice.I don't really have options to actual goat breeders, just hobbyists. How do you test for CAE? Since I will be selling the kids that come from breeding the does for milk, I would like to know how so that I can when it comes time. (or do you go to the vet?)  (Obviously that won't come for awhile.) I found a CD&T vaccine, so I can do it if necessary. What all things should I vaccinate against? How many times should I worm a year?


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 13, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

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I have Nigerian Dwarfs.


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## Southern by choice (Jul 13, 2013)

You should only use a de-wormer as needed. The type of de-wormer must also be effective for the type of parasite.  Scheduled dewormings is a bad practice that has only made many de-wormers ineffective.

We have excellent parasite resistance. I have only ever had to give a dewormer once to one goat, and that was for tapeworms.
With all the rain here I am doing more frequent fecals because we are now in our 4th season of straight rain... prime for "growing parasites"... so far so good, but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see some increase.

The CDT can be given by you easily.
I still recommend that you find a good caprine vet  and build that relationship. 

In our state the state lab is also funded so our CAE  and our Johnnes Testing is $1.50 per test plus a submission fee.
If you can draw your own blood thats great if not then that would be done by a vet and that is usually where the expense comes in. 
Ask if the parent stock has been tested, they should also have a paper or electronic copy of the actual results.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 13, 2013)

Southern by choice said:
			
		

> Unless you are showing or planning on needing a high producing dairy milk goat unregistered goats are fine.
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> Although I have referred One Fine to many people here in NC,_ I strongly disagree with his philosophy_. I do however respect his care and health practices, I also believe One Fine is knowledgeable and has a great deal to offer.  Goat owners do not all share the same end goals. Self-sustainability for our family is  priority on our farm so showing or building a name or line isn't our goal. For others it may be their goal.
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Southern is correct, we have a different philosophy.  But, I think she is a very awesome person who is very knowledgable. And we agree strongly on one point.  The most important thing is to buy healthy animals from an ethical breeder whose priority is maintaining a healthy herd.  That is not negotiable, or an "opinion".


I am a bit of purist.  Nigerian Dwarfs are dairy goats.  There was a long struggle to get the American Dairy Goat Association (ADGA) to recognize them as a "true" breed of dairy goat. They are livestock.  They are not pets. (although I love all of my girls and boys  
Pygmy goats on the other hand are pets.  For a purist like myself, Dairy goats do not have horns.  There are a lot of threads on this forum about that.  I'm sorry, but in my mind if they have horns they are not dairy goats.

If you buy ADGA or AGS registered Nigerians you are getting (hopefully) pure bred animals.  They are not crossed with standard goats, Pygmy's or Fainters.  While unregistered stock could come from good lineage, more likely it does not.  It is much more likely it is not in fact a Nigerian Dwarf at all, or it most likely has some other breed crossed with it.

The Nigerian Dwarf has a very interesting and unique history.  I would recommend you learn their history.

We do show our animals.  But, we are also trying to improve the breed.  It has a lot of upside potential as a dairy animal. I would stand by my recommendation to buy AGS or ADGA registered animals even if you are not planning to show your animals.  Just my opinion, plus your kids are more valuable.

I disagree with her statement about many dairies not having purebred stock.  Most dairies don't have ND's or I do know of one that incorporates them to increase butter fat.  Most of the working dairies I'm familiar with have registered purebred's Saanens, Alpines or recorded grades.

I would still stand by my recommendation that if you are just starting out you start with AGS or ADGA registered stock who have been disbudded.  That is just my opinion.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 13, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

> I am looking for a pet, not planning on showing. Milk would be nice.I don't really have options to actual goat breeders, just hobbyists. How do you test for CAE? Since I will be selling the kids that come from breeding the does for milk, I would like to know how so that I can when it comes time. (or do you go to the vet?)  (Obviously that won't come for awhile.) I found a CD&T vaccine, so I can do it if necessary. What all things should I vaccinate against? How many times should I worm a year?


You test for CAE by drawing blood and sending it to a lab.  A lot of people can draw their own blood which greatly reduces the cost of having a vet do this.
We are not there yet.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 14, 2013)

OneFineAcre said:
			
		

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Oh, I should be able to do that. I've had it done many times to myself (along with other things involving blood and needles.) So I shouldn't have a problem. Where do I get the blood from?


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 14, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

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It's in their neck, so I assume it's the jugular vein.


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## Moonshine (Jul 14, 2013)

Listen ArtisticFarmer, you are going to find a large variety of goat raising methods here and anywhere else. It's essentially a great thing to have so many different methods because you can get an idea of which way might work best for you and your heard. My opinion is still on the fence and I'm currently doing my research of what I find is best for me and my small backyard heard. I'm leaning toward the fiascofarm.com approach which doesn't vaccinate and takes a different approach to maintaining a healthy heard. My advise to you is take all this advise as suggestions and do your research. Find a method to the madness that you agree with and will work for you. Honestly no ones advise is wrong and they really are just trying to give you the best advise they have to offer, but it is what works best for them. It can be overwhelming having so much advise that is all different but that's why you should just give it some thought and research. Best of luck in your goat journey. I have Nigerians too and I love love them and their personality! You will love having goats!


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 14, 2013)

In reply to what moonshine said - 

Thank you very, very, much to everybody that replied to this, I really appreciate it. I am grateful for the opinions you guys have put in, and like moonshine said, I will take all the great answers and mesh out something that will work well for me and my flock. Again, thank you.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 14, 2013)

Moonshine said:
			
		

> Listen ArtisticFarmer, you are going to find a large variety of goat raising methods here and anywhere else. It's essentially a great thing to have so many different methods because you can get an idea of which way might work best for you and your heard. My opinion is still on the fence and I'm currently doing my research of what I find is best for me and my small backyard heard. I'm leaning toward the fiascofarm.com approach which doesn't vaccinate and takes a different approach to maintaining a healthy heard. My advise to you is take all this advise as suggestions and do your research. Find a method to the madness that you agree with and will work for you. Honestly no ones advise is wrong and they really are just trying to give you the best advise they have to offer, but it is what works best for them. It can be overwhelming having so much advise that is all different but that's why you should just give it some thought and research. Best of luck in your goat journey. I have Nigerians too and I love love them and their personality! You will love having goats!


This was very good advice.

There are a lot of opinions and what I said was just that "my opinion".

I'll give you another piece of advice.  Do what Southern said, find a vet who knows goats. In fact, find a vet before you get any goats. Let them know what your interest is, they may recommend people in your area who raise nice animals.

Half of the animals I sell are to  people who contact me because my Vet recommends them to me.  

Find a mentor in your area.


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## WannaBeFarmR (Jul 16, 2013)

I agree that registered stock is a good choice for someone first starting out. There are a lot of people out there selling goats that are not as concerned about the health and well being of their goats. There are a few diseases that are devastating physically for the goats and emotionally for the unknowing owner, and unfortunately you can't always tell by looking at the goats. These diseases are very preventable but require ongoing testing and safety practices to keep the herds clean or disease free. Many people who breed registered stock are involved in showing, or breed improvement so testing is a productive practice for them and the future of their herd. Although this is not always the case, and many people have healthy animals that are mixed, or grade, or whatever. A lot of people that get goats find themselves wishing their girls were registered at one point or another down the road, so starting out with registered goats solves that problem too. And look at the price of goats in your area if someone is selling goat kids for $25 and most are going for $125 ask yourself why, unfortunately there is often a reason that the breeder isn't going to tell you.  If the goat looks shaggy like a dog after a bath it might not be a good pick. In my experience a shaggy dull coat in a kid has always been a sign of something wrong with the goat. Goat kids should be smooth or fluffy not shaggy. And I haven't met a goat who didn't think she was beautiful, they are very full of themselves, so a hunched over goat with its head and tail down is normally a bad sign, a healthy goat wants you to look at it and holds its body like that's all you came there to do, cocky and spunky body language is a good sign, but aggressive body language not so much. That was way too long... I'm sure you've done lots of research and these are just a few things I wish I'd been told when I first started with goats. Maybe its obvious and repetitive stuff but maybe it will help in some way? Either way good luck and have fun!

3 seems to be the magic number of goats with just 2 you risk one being a bully and one being upset and depressed plus if something ever happened to one goat you are left with just one very lonely and loud goat while you scramble to find her a buddy. You always try and keep them safe but kidding is never 100% safe and either is life when your a goat that looks tasty to predators and fun to roaming dogs.


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## randomtree (Jul 16, 2013)

I also use a shoulder-height (to the goats) electrical fence wire along the fence, to keep them from breaking the welded wire down by rubbing against it


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## drdoolittle (Jul 16, 2013)

I have Nigerian Dwarf and Pygmy goats.  I feed them 1/2 flake of hay each 2x a day, and 1/4 cup of Noble Goat feed each 2x a day.  You also need to have loose mineral and salt and baking soda available to them on a free-choice basis.  I don't know why someone said that if they are only NDGA regisyeted, they might as well not be registered at all.


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## OneFineAcre (Jul 17, 2013)

drdoolittle said:
			
		

> I have Nigerian Dwarf and Pygmy goats.  I feed them 1/2 flake of hay each 2x a day, and 1/4 cup of Noble Goat feed each 2x a day.  You also need to have loose mineral and salt and baking soda available to them on a free-choice basis.  I don't know why someone said that if they are only NDGA regisyeted, they might as well not be registered at all.


I said that it my area, NC if they were just registered with NDGA or MDGA and not registered with AGS or ADGA they might as well  not be registered.  I also said that I did not know how it was where the original poster is which is Iowa.  I also don't know how it is where you are at.



The reason is everyone here who wants registered animals want AGS or ADGA.

Probably because all of the dairy goat shows in this area are ADGA sanctioned shows, and they will not accept NDGA or MDGA registration, only ADGA or AGS.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 17, 2013)

drdoolittle said:
			
		

> I have Nigerian Dwarf and Pygmy goats.  I feed them 1/2 flake of hay each 2x a day, and 1/4 cup of Noble Goat feed each 2x a day.  You also need to have loose mineral and salt and baking soda available to them on a free-choice basis.  I don't know why someone said that if they are only NDGA regisyeted, they might as well not be registered at all.


Thank you!!! This gives me more of an idea of how much feed they go through. I'm thinking of either giving them 1/2-1 cup of food a day, or giving them all they can eat on the milking stand. (I heard of someone doing that, but they might get to much while I am learning to milk properly. )


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## randomtree (Jul 17, 2013)

ArtisticFarmer said:
			
		

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If you feed goats on the milking stand, it does help them stand still, but it creates a dependence. In the future, they won't stand still without the food, so it's up to you, if you want to train them that way.


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 17, 2013)

randomtree said:
			
		

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Oh, didn't think of that. hmm. Good point.


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## Moonshine (Jul 17, 2013)

I read somewhere that someone puts 3 golf balls in their bucket of feed to ensure they have to work at it and won't gobble it all down so fast. I think I'm going to try that when my.does get to that stage!


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## ArtisticFarmer (Jul 17, 2013)

Moonshine said:
			
		

> I read somewhere that someone puts 3 golf balls in their bucket of feed to ensure they have to work at it and won't gobble it all down so fast. I think I'm going to try that when my.does get to that stage!


I think there is also dishes that have knobs in them for the same effect. Smart!


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