# Heat or Pregnancy?



## lalabugs

I just purchased a Nigerian Dwarf doe, named Honey. Who may or may not be pregnant. The lady I got her from said there was a big chance that she is pregnant. She did not know for sure. I have only had her 7 days. I have been looking for either pregnancy signs of heat signs. This morning I went out to feed & water everyone. I noticed Honey had a clump of hay on her vulva. I cleaned it off. She has a white discharge. Everything that I have found says they have a discharge with pregnancy and heat. Which is not helping me. Here is a picture of Honey after i cleaned the clump off of her. The discharge is also on her tail and dried. I'm just wondering do you think it's from heat or pregnancy?


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## babsbag

Has she kidded before? And can you get a top picture looking down or one that shows her sides really well, like head on or from behind?   They can have a discharge up to a month before kidding, and sometimes they won't have it until the day of. They drive us crazy. I seldom (like next to never) see a discharge during heat.

And welcome to BYH from very sunny and very hot California.


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## lalabugs

Thank you! From California myself. 
She has kidded before. Twins, triplets, triplets, single. These are the best pictures i could get of her. She does not like standing still for a photo op. Even with my daughter giving her scratches and love.


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## babsbag

I am in No. CA, near Redding and it is hot hot hot hot here today. Hope you are some place cooler.

If she is bred I don't think she will be kidding anytime soon unless of course she has already dropped and she will be kidding this week. Goats are so darn sneaky. Does her udder look full at all?  She doesn't look pregnant to me; at least not far enough along to be kidding soon. Was she with the buck up until you bought her?

Do you have a buck? If so she should show some interest in him if she is in heat. 

Pretty girl BTW, I love her colors.


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## Latestarter

Greetings and welcome to BYH! She's a pretty girl! Thanks for sharing the pics  I have no idea if she's "with kid" or not, but the kid scratching her is pretty cute too   Lots of great goat folks here so make yourself at home and browse around . look forward to updates on your doe.


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## lalabugs

I wish I was some place cooler! Haha. I'm in kern county. It is HOT here as well. 105 in the shade yesterday. 

Her udder does not look like it has changed in the week that I have had her. The lady said she was with bucks. But not within the last month. 
The lady i purchased her from, had just purchased her back from whom ever she sold her to. The person who she purchased her back from had her in with bucks. The last month she has not been with a buck. Previously to that she was. The previous owner did say she has seen a change in her getting bigger. 

I do have a buck. The bucks are on the other side of the property from the does. 

Thank you. Any information is helpful. She is my first doe. I have been trying to talk my husband into getting goats for years! He finally gave in. He wants to milk to make cheese. I get the goats. Win win. =-D

Thank you! She is a sweet heart. Hates dogs though. The previous owners new dobbie was trying to kill her through the fencing. Along with another doe and wether. We brought them all home. 

Will gladly keep everyone updated.


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## Green Acres Farm

Do you know if she has been tested for CAE? If not, that might be a good idea so you know you are starting out with a clean herd. There other diseases you might want to test for, too. And while you're at it, there is a blood test that tests for pregnancy!

She's a pretty doe!


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## lalabugs

I do not know if she has been or not. I know the buck & our wethers have all come from clean herds. I was just reading up on the pregnancy test. I'm not confident enough to draw blood myself. Giving vaccines and giving medications are no problem. Do you do the blood draw yourself or have a vet come out?


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## Green Acres Farm

I had a vet come out, but there are lots of instructional videos on the web. Whatever you're most comfortable with.


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## sadieml

Welcome to BYH!  Congrats on your newbies!  The one pictured is a real beauty, but inexperienced as I am, I would say she doesn't look pg.  (Do people still say that? or am I just dating myself?)  You could always take her near a buck, or just put her in a private area with one and see what happens.  If she isn't preggers, she might end-up that way!


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## lalabugs

Well shoot. I just called all the vets around here and they don't do it. We only have 3 and only 1 large animal vet. Looks like i'll be researching how to do this and ordering what i need to do it.
Any advice from anyone with drawing blood and sending in for testing?


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## babsbag

Kern County = HOT!!!! We have another member of BYH @ragdollcatlady   that lives in Kings County so closer to you. She raises some really nice Nigis, Boers and Nubians

I too use Sage Ag Labs and while you are at it you can draw enough blood and get CAE, CL, and Johne's tests too.  Contact the lab and find out how much blood to do all of the testing at one time. 

http://www.sageaglab.com/content/schedule-and-prices 

I don't draw mine own, I have  a friend that does it for me but I could if I had someone to hold the goat. It is really easy with a good helper and you should be able to get red top tubes from a vet. 

Don't tell....I ship priority mail...there is all kinds of things you are supposed to say and do to ship with the USPS but I don't. I wrap the tubes in paper towels, and then double baggie them. I also put the submittal form in a baggie.  I have also shipped Fed Ex 2 day and it wasn't a bad price. Check with the lab and find out what day they do the testing and if the blood needs to be on ice. I have sent so many samples to so many labs that I don't remember all of the details.


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## lalabugs

It is REALLY hot! Kings county is not far at all.

We will be getting the stuff to draw blood tomorrow. Hopefully get it to the lab by Monday. Hopefully it goes smoothly.

I do see a slight change in her udder. I keep second guessing myself. But her left teat is now pointing down. You can now feel the mammary glands (not a lot but some). Before her left teat was higher up.



This was taken 7/21/16








This was just taken. Tried to get the same angle.


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## babsbag

You will go crazy staring at her. Ask me how I  know this.


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## lalabugs

Haha I feel like I am already! Can't wait to get the results, once we send in the blood.


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## lalabugs

Is there a certain age you want to test for CAE, CL, and Johne's? My husband wants to get his Nubian tested. She's 3 months old. We're picking her up Tuesday. We will also be sending in the hair for G6S. He wants to send in the blood from both Honey and Willow together. 

Today was the 10 day mark for Honey to get wormed again. She has gained 5lbs 1oz in 10 days.


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## Green Acres Farm

I personally wouldn't test until she is at least 6 months old for more accurate results.


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## Goatgirl47

I've heard that you can test for G6S at any age, because it is a genetic disease. But Johnes, CAE & CL you have to wait until they are older to get the most accurate results.


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## lalabugs

Thank you for the information. We will hold off on testing her for those.


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## Green Acres Farm

Have you asked the Nubian's owners if the parents have been tested? If not, maybe you could send in her dam's blood to be tested for CAE, John's and CL instead of the kid's if you are already going to be testing your does at the same time. That might be too complicated- just a thought.


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## lalabugs

The dam has not been tested. Why we wanted to test. I will talk to the owner and see what they say.


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## babsbag

Johne's is 18 months. CL and CAE is 6 months but a positive CAE test does NOT mean that she has it, it does mean though that she has been exposed. But negative in negative.


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## Green Acres Farm

babsbag said:


> But negative in negative.



Not necessarily. If the goat has it, but doesn't have many antibodies to it yet, it can show up as negative. A goat can test for positive and really be negative and test for negative and be positive. 
But for the most part, testing is accurate.


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## babsbag

For CAE if a young kid test positive then they most likely have had CAE positive colostrum and I would be very suspicious. If they test negative at 6 months I think you would be in the clear, especially if they are weaned.


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## lalabugs

I just came in from watching honey for a few hours. She is acting completely strange. She ate a little bit.

She is pawing, then laying down. Biting her sides/butt. Gets up paces in circles. Stretches out (a couple times standing, a few times on the ground.) Back to pacing, pawing, laying, getting up. She's flagging her tail. She did this over and over and over. I was out there 2 hours. She did this the whole time I was out there.


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## Green Acres Farm

She might be in labor!!!
Feel her tail ligaments. Are they soft or gone? Does she have any fluid coming from her behind?


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## Green Acres Farm

Squeeze one of her teats. Is there any thick fluid in there?


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## Latestarter

Woo Hoo Might be getting close to having a kid or two... or three... or... four? Hey, it could happen! Sounds like nesting behavior to me    I'll be !


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## lalabugs

I can not feel the left ligament and only slightly on the right. Its very hard to find. I have been checking 2x a day. No fluid. Only the white discharge that she's had, today is 8 days of the discharge. 

I have not attempted to check her teats. She does not like me even touching her stomach. 

How long does this behavior last before actual labor starts?


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## Latestarter

Could be 24 hours or less, could be another week (or more )... sorry, hard to be definitive  But we all hope it's SOON!   

Edit to add: From my understanding, once the ligs are gone, it's usually 24 hours or less. But then there have been folks post on here that their doe's ligs were gone for days and days before the kids came...


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## lalabugs

She loves to get attention, scratches on the back or shoulders. She will come straight up to me. She has been licking my legs. She just doesn't like me touching her stomach. 

I went and checked on her one more time before my husband heads off to work. She is still doing the same thing.


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## lalabugs

I do not have a birthing kit ready. We were heading to the city on wed. Planned on getting everything then. Thought if she was pregnant that i would have more time that this. 
I honestly am not sure if she's had any contractions.


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## lalabugs

Just went and checked on her. She is up pacing around. She is going to the bathroom A LOT. I did see a small amount of clear goo drip out of her.


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## lalabugs

I would not say that her udder is full. It has gotten slightly larger. You can tell more in the front than the back. I sat out watching her again this am. She is up pacing, laid down a few time. Which didn't last long. I haven't seen any more goo or discharge since that little bit this am. 
She gladly ate her grain. Went and nibbled at her hay. Which she hasn't really touched since yesterday. Then back to pacing. I tried to watch/feel for any contractions. I honestly don't know.


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## sadieml

WOW!!!  This is quite an adventure!  A few days ago we were speculating on pregnancy, now she may be in labor!  Don't worry about not being prepared like a good scout.  Life happens.  You probably will want to check out a preparedness list like THIS ONE, but don't sweat it.  Giving birth is usually a simple task, except when it's not.  As for those times, a level head, extra hands, and the folks here on BYH can usually get you through just about anything.  ...and pray for calm.  Remaining calm in a crisis is invaluable.  Thank the Dear Lord my DH is very level-headed.  

Give us an update, soon.  Is she still making you crazy, nuts?  Pacing, pacing, pacing...


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## lalabugs

Right before I came inside she was laying down. She's not pacing as bad as she was last night or this morning. I haven't seen any more discharge since this morning either. It's also HOT outside already. She is still pawing, laying and stretching.


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## frustratedearthmother

Not trying to burst your bubble....but, I'd say she's still a ways away from kidding.  I'm going by her udder - which USUALLY is a great indicator of impending birth.  Her udder isn't saying that to me.   She could be one of those goats that doesn't fill in until after but.... that's not my guess.

Hope I'm wrong and you get babies soon!!


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## lalabugs

I'm perfectly fine with her still being pregnant awhile. This gives me time to get to the city and do the shopping i need. Planned on getting the CD&T vaccine. Along with everything else I need. Our feed store up here does not carry everything I need. I'll be doing that shopping Wed. 

I just got done reading the links that Sadieml posted. Read that all this behavior can last weeks. Although my DH is beyond ready for the babies (mostly milk). I would much rather be fully prepared for the babies to come. 

Thinking that they could have been coming sooner, was beyond stressing me out.


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## lalabugs

Welcome Willow. We just brought her home. Almost 3 Month old Nubian.


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## Latestarter

Sweet lookin critter...   ummmm Nubian? or perhaps mini Nubian? I ask because of size @ 3 months, and the ears...


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## babsbag

She is cute. But I agree with @latestrater. She has flying nun ears.


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## frustratedearthmother

X3


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## lalabugs

Here is another pic with her next to our mini alpine/togg wether (Al). She kept doing that with her ears trying to be dominate to Al & chocolate. 



 

My daughter and her ND she named chocolate. That is Chocolates preferred spot to be. In someones lap.


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## lalabugs

They said she was Nubian, but they do have a Nubian & ND buck on the property.


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## Goatgirl47

She's beautiful!  Congrats! She looks more like a Mini-Nubian to me though.


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## sadieml

She is a beauty.  Even more, your DD is an absolute DOLL!!!  Does she have older brother(s) to be her bodyguard(s), 'cause she's gonna need them!


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## lalabugs

Thank you! She knows it too! Every time we go anywhere, every one tells her how beautiful she is. How much they love her hair. She eats it up. She does have 3 older brothers. Got some time before I have to start worrying about her dating.


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## sadieml

Ever since my DD started to get a figure at 11 (3 years ago) her big brothers, now 18 and 20 (also 6', 165 & 6'4" or 5" and 235) have kept hawk-eyes on every man or boy looking her way.  They keep asking for baseball bats, but I keep telling them they are imposing enough unarmed!


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## lalabugs

I know that one all to well. My oldest is 13 and has a figure. Thankfully my husband is 6'3" and a big guy. I know exactly how tall men are intimidating to young men.  They don't need those baseball bats, just being big guys is enough. You will not have to worry about men coming near her with her big brothers.


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## Latestarter

13 year olds didn't "have a figure" when I was 13... Times have changed! Might have just been me... Girls didn't look like "girls" to me till 15-16 (when I was 13).  Ummm what happens if she brings home a boy that's 6'3" and a big kid?


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## Goat Whisperer

Sit on the roof with a shotgun


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## babsbag

Goat Whisperer said:


> Sit on the roof with a shotgun



My mom tells me that my grandpa used to do that when her sisters brought home young men in Navy uniforms. (World War II era). Of course my mother claims that she never went out with any Navy men as she was too shy. But when she met my dad at church it took them 2 weeks to get engaged and 2 months to get married. Shy ?... yeah, right.


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## Goat Whisperer




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## lalabugs

Honey update. Her bag has had a major change since the last time I posted. Not tight though. She hasn't been doing anymore pacing or any other odd behavior. She still is having discharge. It's been 3 weeks. Although i don't know if she had any discharge before I got her.









 7/23/16



this morning. 

What do you think?


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## lalabugs

Will be keeping an eye on her. Haven't checked ligaments in a little while. You're right it's not huge or tight. I have not moved her to the kidding pen yet. She is still in with willow and chocolate. Don't want to put her in the kidding pen until she is closer to labor.


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## sadieml

I'm definitely no expert, but I think you still have a little time.  Like you and Green Acres both said, that udder isn't quite there, but I don't think your wait will be too long.  My GUESS (emphasis on guess) is 1 to 2 weeks more.  That's a nice increase in size, but it took 3 weeks, so not really quick.  Like GA said, just keep a check on those ligaments.  THEY really tell the story, although I seem to remember in the spring someone had a doe with disappearing/reappearing ligs.  Anyway, some does don't even get a full udder until AFTER they give birth, so that isn't the most reliable sign.  I'm sure you'll see more signs before time comes--at least, I hope so!   You know goats like to be sneaky, wonderful, rotten little critters!


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## lalabugs

I have been going about my daily routine. Only checking on her when I feed & collect eggs. 

I will check her ligaments when I go out to collect eggs.


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## lalabugs

I can still feel her ligaments, they're not hard but there. 

Silly question but do goats get b&h type contractions leading up to labor like humans? 

Her stomach was hard when i went out there, she was laying down. Didn't even move when I went into the pen. (which is really odd, she usually jumps up expecting treats.) 

After about a minute she got up looking for treats. She turned around and pushed her head against the shelter wall. Did this for about a minute. She did that to the shelter wall twice. 

She moved around again, then pushed her head against my leg and just stood there. Her stomach was again hard. About a minute later, she walked off to get some food. 

I haven't read anything about goats getting b&h type contractions, only contracting during labor. 

Goats are so different and confusing! I have dealt with cats, dogs & horses pregnancies and labor. All have certain signs that let you know what is going on. Goats seem to keep you constantly guessing.


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## sadieml

...


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## Latestarter

x2 ^^


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## lalabugs

I can not get anything out of her teat. She also is NOT pleased when i tried. She is back to acting completely normal this morning. Though she did have goo down her leg. Was dried on though. So i don't know how long it actually was. I have not witnessed anymore than the little bit of goo she has been having for 3 weeks. 

She is driving me crazy! one day its weird behavior then its normal then strange. My husbands more like meh it happens when it happens. I want to make sure i'm there just in case.

I have not felt babies. My husband so far is the only lucky one to feel babies moving.


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## Goat Whisperer

Based on her udder, it looks like she has some time. Of course every goat is different. I know my goats and know when their udder fills whether it be before kidding after kidding etc. 

I don't have time to go through the whole thread, but do you have any idea on when she could have been bred? 

Goats love to trick you, watch the other goats and see how they are behaving. You have to remember that when they are pregnant it still puts stain on their body, they could be acting different just because they are heavy and its hot outside. I have a do that has a harder time in pregnancy due to her having large litters (4-5 kids).

At this point, I don't think she was having contractions.  

I don't ever try to express milk from a doe that hasn't kidded yet unless she is over full or I suspect mastitis. 

I think sometimes we get so worked up and excited about kidding we are always searching for kidding signs but allow ourselves to be tricked. One morning after a doe had kidding quints that I had bottle fed overnight, I went to go check on the other 3 does that were due... Felt doe 1, 2, and 3, I could have sworn they all had lost their ligs... Came back in to sit down and someone asked me what I felt/saw... I said I have no clue LOL and thought I was delusional from no sleep... Go back out and 2 does are having contractions and the third doe has long mucus ropes... Guess I wasn't that delusional after all    

Hang in there, she is 1 day closer


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## lalabugs

I have no idea when she was bred. I purchased her on 7/20. The people said there was a chance that she could be bred, but they were not 100%. They did not have a buck. The people they just purchased her back from had the bucks. 

I have watched her udders slowly get bigger. I do feel like she's tricking me. Then again this is my first pregnancy/birth with goats. I'm trying to pay close attention to everything she does, so when we breed her later on down the line. I know what to look for with her.


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## Goat Whisperer

Take lots of pics with the date on them!


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## lalabugs

Already started that.  Have them all saved on Word with dates next to them. They also all have the date on my phone.


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## lalabugs

Could bad air quality (due to fire) cause a goat to cough? When I went out this morning Honey was coughing, one long cough. Not wet, dry cough. I watched her over an hour, she did not cough again. We currently have a bad fire here, with the sky being rather dark in smoke. Could the air quality be affecting her? No one else is coughing. Also we live in a giant dust bowl. She's eating, drinking, being completely normal. She has no runny nose.


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## Green Acres Farm

I would think the couph would be a result of the fire, but taking her temperature would not be a bad idea.

@babsbag @Southern by choice @Goat Whisperer @OneFineAcre


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## Southern by choice

Green Acres Farm said:


> I would think the couph would be a result of the fire, but taking her temperature would not be a bad idea.



x2


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## OneFineAcre

lalabugs said:


> Could bad air quality (due to fire) cause a goat to cough? When I went out this morning Honey was coughing, one long cough. Not wet, dry cough. I watched her over an hour, she did not cough again. We currently have a bad fire here, with the sky being rather dark in smoke. Could the air quality be affecting her? No one else is coughing. Also we live in a giant dust bowl. She's eating, drinking, being completely normal. She has no runny nose.


I would absolutely think air quality could be a factor.


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## lalabugs

103.8


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## babsbag

That is a tough temp, right on the border of what I personally would treat. I would take it again in a few hours and see what happens.

Are you in California? You mentioned fires


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## lalabugs

Will take it again in a couple hours. Yes, I am in California. This is the second fire here.


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## lalabugs

Just took it again, it's now 101.9 This mornings temp was taken after she was up moving around. Just now she was laying in the shade sleeping. Have not heard anymore coughing from her.


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## babsbag

I think she is fine, that temp is perfectly normal. I would just keep and eye and ear on her.

Sorry about the fires, hope it stays away from you. I know Lake county is getting hit hard again this year...like last year wasn't enough. There are some bad ones down south right now too. My DH used to drive a fire truck for the US Forest Service so this time of year always brings back memories. We had some friends lose their house in one a few years ago and I can't even imagine dealing with that. They literally lost everything put the clothes they were wearing and their cars.


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## lalabugs

Will be keeping an eye on her. 

The fires are horrible this year! They have destroyed SO MUCH! This fire is bad. Not as bad as the fire we're still trying to recover from. This fire is the Cedar fire. On the opposite side of the lake from us. Fires freak me out. Always have. My husband use to give me grief because of it. He does not anymore, not since dealing with the Erskine Fire. That fire was BAD! The fire consumed so much, so fast. I know so many people who lost everything in that fire. We were extremely lucky to have our house still. Our community is still dealing with the out come of that fire.


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## babsbag

Kern county is hot even without fires. Fires are frightening to say the least and they move so fast. The best you can do is keep your land clear and if you have decks around your house make sure they are closed in so no burning embers can get under them. That has been a big problem and that is how our friends lost their home. They had a 1700 sq ft deck with lattice skirting...just kindling wood to a fast moving fire.  We have a swimming pool, a fire pump, and a generator. Hopefully that will give us a chance but I couldn't protect the house AND the barn, hard choices that I hope I never have to make and my heart is saddened for those that do make them.


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## lalabugs

Well it feels like honey is going to be pregnant forever. Still having discharge, although it seems less than previously. I can still feel ligaments, they do not feel soft.




 

 

Can goats go longer than 1 1/2 months with discharge before labor? On 9/03 it will be 1 1/2 months since I noticed she had discharge.


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## lalabugs

Her udder has changed from the day we brought her home, just not in the past week. Discharge is daily, for the past 1 1/2 months. I have only had her since 7/20. I did not notice discharge until 7/23. If she is pregnant, who knows how far along she is. 

Have not done the testing yet, waiting for the blood tubes to get here. Vets here don't do the testing. Couldn't get any blood tubes off any vets here either, they all looked at me like I was crazy. 
Once the tubes get here, we will be testing for everything. CAE, CL & Johns along with Pregnancy.


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## Goat Whisperer

The vets wouldn't even sell you a red-topped tube?! Crazy. 

Hoping you get your results in quickly!


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## lalabugs

NOPE! They all refused to sell me one. Out of the 3 Vets here only one of them referred me to Jeffers to order them. The other two refused. Period. While looking at me like I was a crazy person for asking.  

Not looking forward to drawing blood. Having the results will be worth it though.


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## lalabugs

I received the P-Test today before getting the red tube tops. I did test honeys urine. It says she is not pregnant. We still plan on doing blood as well once we receive the tubes. 

My question is would a false pregnancy still cause her udder to change the way it did?


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## babsbag

I believe that a false pregnancy could cause the udder to change, I know that cats and dogs can actually get milk.


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## Latestarter

Man... I sure hope that your buck is pregnant! I've seen pictures of bucks with udders, lactating (sorry, that's just NOT right!) and even on milk test  But if you have a pregnant buck, that would kinda be like winning the lottery!


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