# Approved!



## Genipher (Aug 22, 2018)

I'm doing a happy dance over here as I just got a letter from the city approving my application for backyard goats and chickens!

 

I can have 3 goats and 10 chickens!

Now I need to save up for the animals, feed, etc. Might take me a few months but my dream feels closer to reality!


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## TAH (Aug 22, 2018)

That is soooooo AWESOME!!!!!! 

What breed of goats are you going to go with???


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## Genipher (Aug 22, 2018)

TAH said:


> That is soooooo AWESOME!!!!!!
> 
> What breed of goats are you going to go with???



Quiet ones. 

Our dog vet is also a goat vet. Just met with her yesterday for pup's shots, etc. and got to talking about goats. She suggested horned, Nigerian does. However, I have to watch out for the noise ordinance and I've heard Nigies can be loud(er) goats. Smaller goats would be better for our 3,000 sq. ft. backyard but...I'd love to find some LaManchas. Maybe Mini-Manchas...


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## Goat Whisperer (Aug 22, 2018)

Not turning this into a debate, but why horns?


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## Genipher (Aug 22, 2018)

I asked the same thing. I've read enough here to know I DON'T want horns on my goats.

The vet said goats "should have horns so they can protect themselves from predators."

I mentioned children accidentally getting stabbed and that I have little kids (whom I don't want losing an eye) and she said "kids have been around horned goats for centuries."



I don't agree 100% with her goaty viewpoints but I'm thankful to have a vet who can be there in case of emergency, etc.


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## Latestarter (Aug 22, 2018)

What complete nonsense! 





Genipher said:


> "kids have been around horned goats for centuries."


   What the hell kinda answer is that? Horned goats have been getting eaten by LOTS of animals for millennia! Goats with horns are NOT going to stop your neighbor's dog from taking it down and making a snack of it. Don't believe me? There are plenty of examples you can read about right here on this site! A 50 pound goat even with horns is no match for a 50 pound rottie, German Shepherd, pit bull, etc. etc. etc.  You have small kids, get de-horned goats! rant over


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## Latestarter (Aug 22, 2018)

BTW... Very happy you got your approval! Congrats! I can imagine your excitement!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 22, 2018)

Genipher said:


> I asked the same thing. I've read enough here to know I DON'T want horns on my goats.
> 
> The vet said goats "should have horns so they can protect themselves from predators."
> 
> ...



Find another vet that actually knows something about livestock. Geesh.  Or just find others, mentors etc that will teach disbudding etc.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 22, 2018)

Horns are no no no no!!!!   Determined coyote make short work on goat!  Especially around children I would not have horned goats.

All goats make noise.  An individual of any breed can be insecure screamer.  Go hang out with different breeds and get what you enjoy looking at.  If you plan on breeding you want to find some one close to buy from that would be ok with your bringing them back to breed.

Check www.adga.org  to find goat club in your area.  Fall fair show season is coming up and can be a good way to meet breeders and see goats.  Do your homework this fall and winter to be ready to buy next spring.  That is when animals are most readily available.


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## TAH (Aug 22, 2018)

I'm going to chime in on this because I am in a situation with this right now. 

I have Tabby a 7-month old kiko mix doe with horns... NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!! She is the only doe in my herd right now with horns and I'm in constant threat of everything I do with her around. I am really regretting letting her stayed horned. 

I can't grab her collar without getting poked, I can't bend down without being worried about a poke in the face, I'm always trying to make sure I'm not in her way of running, It is just a none stop threat of being worried. 

I do get worried about the children being the pen with her and for there safety and everyone else I will NEVER again owner a horned goat. Unless a meat goat. 

And on the fact of people owning goats for thousand of years with horns doesn't mean no one got an missing eye or poke in the shoulder from them... In my mind it is like saying people have been climbing mountains for thousands of year, well, it still doesn't mean many people have gotten hurt and die. 

77777


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## RollingAcres (Aug 23, 2018)

Congratulations!


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## Baymule (Aug 23, 2018)

I am so happy for you! You are going to enjoy your chickens and goats so much! What breeds of chickens will you have? A mixed flock is fun and colorful, like a bouquet of flowers.


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## Alexz7272 (Aug 23, 2018)

Congrats! I'd really take the time and effort to go through all the different breed options. I personally *had* no issues with horned goats but that does not mean that worked for everyone else. My Nigerians were pretty loud, I could not imagine having them in my backyard  
That is so exciting! As others asked, do you know what type of chickens you want? Cannot wait to see what you decide on


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## Athena2344 (Aug 23, 2018)

My angoras have horns, but have never rammed me or anything else, and compared to the Boers, pygmies and some milkers I've come across, they are definitely the quietest I've ever come across.


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## Genipher (Aug 23, 2018)

Southern by choice said:


> Find another vet that actually knows something about livestock. Geesh.  Or just find others, mentors etc that will teach disbudding etc.



Yeah, I'm thinking she'll be a last resort. I asked her about breeding polled and polled, because I've read conflicting reports about it and she was utterly confused as to what I was talking about.

What's funny is she was really pushing FFH but...aren't goats supposed to be dehorned for showing??


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## Genipher (Aug 23, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> What complete nonsense!     What the hell kinda answer is that? Horned goats have been getting eaten by LOTS of animals for millennia! Goats with horns are NOT going to stop your neighbor's dog from taking it down and making a snack of it. Don't believe me? There are plenty of examples you can read about right here on this site! A 50 pound goat even with horns is no match for a 50 pound rottie, German Shepherd, pit bull, etc. etc. etc.  You have small kids, get de-horned goats! rant over



I know! I was surprised at her answer. Reminded me of my doctor when I told her my sciatica had made my foot partially numb. When I asked if the damage was permanent she said, "Lots of people who have diabetes can't feel their feet."

Okay. But I don't HAVE diabetes...so how does that answer my question??

Seems like those in the medical professions aren't as knowledgeable as they should be...no offence to any vets or doctors here! Maybe I just have poor luck in finding good doctors and vets!


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## Genipher (Aug 23, 2018)

TAH said:


> I'm going to chime in on this because I am in a situation with this right now.
> 
> I have Tabby a 7-month old kiko mix doe with horns... NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!! She is the only doe in my herd right now with horns and I'm in constant threat of everything I do with her around. I am really regretting letting her stayed horned.
> 
> ...



Exactly! And you've been around my kids. The little girls especially love hugging on animals. They would be the ones to get their faces stabbed!

Have you thought about selling Tabby and replace her with a hornless doe?


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## Genipher (Aug 23, 2018)

Athena2344 said:


> My angoras have horns, but have never rammed me or anything else, and compared to the Boers, pygmies and some milkers I've come across, they are definitely the quietest I've ever come across.



I thought about Angoras...looked into them a bit. I don't think I'm ready to take care of all that wool...


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 23, 2018)

Find a cow vet willing to learn about goats.  A lot of cow stuff is applicable to goats.  One difference is how parasites impact goats much more than cows.  For size the goat has a tremendous surface area in digestive tract compared to cow.  My vet said like a 150# goat equal to 750# cow for parasites to attach...so goat ends up dead, but cow does not.  Since goats evolved in desert and alpine regions they were not subject to parasite pressure and have little resistance.  Find a cow vet, a small animal vet will kill your goat!!


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## Genipher (Aug 23, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Horns are no no no no!!!!   Determined coyote make short work on goat!  Especially around children I would not have horned goats.
> 
> All goats make noise.  An individual of any breed can be insecure screamer.  Go hang out with different breeds and get what you enjoy looking at.  If you plan on breeding you want to find some one close to buy from that would be ok with your bringing them back to breed.
> 
> Check www.adga.org  to find goat club in your area.  Fall fair show season is coming up and can be a good way to meet breeders and see goats.  Do your homework this fall and winter to be ready to buy next spring.  That is when animals are most readily available.



Scouting at the fair is a good idea.  And I suspect I won't have my goat money saved until next spring, so that'll be good timing.

Yeah, I will have a true "backyard herd" with tall, secure, wood fences. The worst we get is racoons and even they have avoided our property since the dog likes to sleep under the stars during the summer.

As to our own dog (and now, new puppy) in the past we trained her to leave the rabbits and chickens alone. We'll do the same with goats. So, really, "horns for protection" wouldn't be an issue in our situation.


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## Genipher (Aug 23, 2018)

Donna R. Raybon said:


> Find a cow vet willing to learn about goats.  A lot of cow stuff is applicable to goats.  One difference is how parasites impact goats much more than cows.  For size the goat has a tremendous surface area in digestive tract compared to cow.  My vet said like a 150# goat equal to 750# cow for parasites to attach...so goat ends up dead, but cow does not.  Since goats evolved in desert and alpine regions they were not subject to parasite pressure and have little resistance.  Find a cow vet, a small animal vet will kill your goat!!



I will look around some more. I was thinking it would be convenient to have all our animals go to one vet but I'm seriously doubting this vet, now.


_And praying she's not here at backyardherds, "listening" to me go off on her... _


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## Genipher (Aug 23, 2018)

Oh, someone asked about the chickens...I'm hoping to get Rhode Island Reds and a few Buff Orpingtons. I also like the Easter Eggers. So, basically, a mixture of breeds.  

Ants and spiders are taking over the backyard so I'm especially eager to get some hen assassins out there!


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## Latestarter (Aug 23, 2018)

As to your question about showing and horns... I don't show, but from what I understand, dairy goats must be disbudded (no horns; burned or polled) to be shown, while meat goats are just the opposite... They have to have their horns to be shown. The things is, with dairy goats, generally there is milking involved and you're down at eye level and within striking range every day, sometimes multiple times a day. Not typically the case with meat goats.


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## Genipher (Aug 24, 2018)

Latestarter said:


> As to your question about showing and horns... I don't show, but from what I understand, dairy goats must be disbudded (no horns; burned or polled) to be shown, while meat goats are just the opposite... They have to have their horns to be shown. The things is, with dairy goats, generally there is milking involved and you're down at eye level and within striking range every day, sometimes multiple times a day. Not typically the case with meat goats.



Ok. I was wondering about the difference between horns on a dairy goat vs. meat. I thought meat goats had differently shaped horns that made them less dangerous, or something...

Learned something new!! Love it!


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## lomine (Aug 24, 2018)

Congrats! So exciting!

Before I got my goats I was really on the fence about the whole horn thing. I like the look of goats with horns and the whole idea of disbudding seemed so painful. Then I got my girls from a breeder who disbuds so there were no horns. Now I’m so very glad I didn’t get horned goats. I sit on the ground with the goats to give affection and they are practilly in my lap. There’s no way I could do that if they had horns. One doe accidentally hit me in the leg once with her tiny scur and it hurt, I’d never want to be poked with a full horn. 

My NDs are noisy when they want something, usually food or attention. When I’m not out in the barn or yard where they can see, they aren’t normally noisy. I do have some that like to talk more than others and all the does are loud when in heat.


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## Donna R. Raybon (Aug 24, 2018)

Yes, scout our breeders now.  You have to freshen a lot of young does to get a few that are show quality.  So, those with very minor cosmetic flaws will make both good family milkers and bred to good buck have genetic potential to produce better than they are themselves.  And, sometimes breeders have older doe that has given them better daughters so ready to let them go.  I got my start with doelings and a couple of unrelated does.
When you shop for breeder, ask them to tell you the goats faults as well as attributes.  At show sit and listen to judge give reasons.  ADGA has pamphlets that help you understand how goat is judged in ring.  This is different than how Linear Appraisal is done.  Learn about LA as good type is part of productivity and longevity.  Harvey Considine and George Trimbergers classic book " Modern Dairy Goat Judging Techniques" is worth finding.


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## Anthony Sr. (Aug 29, 2018)

TAH said:


> I'm going to chime in on this because I am in a situation with this right now.
> 
> I have Tabby a 7-month old kiko mix doe with horns... NEVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!! She is the only doe in my herd right now with horns and I'm in constant threat of everything I do with her around. I am really regretting letting her stayed horned.
> 
> ...


Hello Tah,
     "Maybe" that Goat has sensed the fear in you? and is using your fear against ya? I have a 2 horned goats, here in E. Texas. They will not try to horn me..


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## NDStar (Aug 29, 2018)

I have 3 horned mini manchas and love them.  We have 2 two year old grandkids that are here a couple of times a week and the goats are super gentle around them,  although we don’t leave them alone with the goats.  Our goats are bottle babies and that makes a world of difference.  We are going to cut pool noodles to size and put them in the goats horns if we ever feel like the horns will be a problem.  I have found that it would be impossible to try to move the goats without their horns.  Anything around their necks they fight against, but grab onto a horn and they will come in the direction you are pulling. 
Good luck with your chickens and goats.  That is super exciting!


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## Latestarter (Aug 29, 2018)

I hope you'll consider taking a minute to visit the new member's thread @NDStar and introduce yourself so folks can welcome you properly.  https://www.backyardherds.com/forums/new-member-introductions.17/    Greetings and welcome to BYH from NE TX! So glad you joined us, but what took you so long to post? If you read around regarding "horns and goats" you'll see staunch advocates on either side of the "argument" as well as those who are "fence riders".  If you plan to show dairy breeds, it's a moot point as they have to be "horn-less" to show. Meat goats, just the opposite. There's a wealth of info, knowledge and experience shared in the multitude of threads. Browse around and see what interesting stuff you can find. By all means post away when the desire strikes you, especially if you have questions (provide as much detail/info as possible and pictures truly help)... With all the great folks here, generally someone will respond in no time at all. Please make yourself at home!

PLEASE put at least your general location in your profile. It could be very important if/when you ask for or offer help or advice. You know, climate issues and such. I recommend at least your state as most folks won't be able to figure out where if you put anything more specific (county, town, street, etc) by itself.  Old folks like me  will never remember & look there first. To add it, mouse hover over Account top right and a drop down will appear. Click on Personal Details and scan down. You'll see the spot for Location. Then go to the bottom and save changes.  Thanks! Hope you enjoy the site!


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## BreanneRN (Aug 29, 2018)

Genipher said:


> I will look around some more. I was thinking it would be convenient to have all our animals go to one vet but I'm seriously doubting this vet, now.
> 
> 
> _And praying she's not here at backyardherds, "listening" to me go off on her... _


Seems unlikely...  She would be a little more knowledgeable if she spent any time on a site like this...  and she wouldn't know it was you, anyway...  I have sheep and I wouldn't have a breed where the females have horns (there are some), although I do have some that grow little nubs, and they are nowhere near as "in your face" as goats.  Don't know too much about goats, but know they can be dehorned, can it only be done while they are young or something?


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## RollingAcres (Aug 29, 2018)

Genipher said:


> Oh, someone asked about the chickens...I'm hoping to get Rhode Island Reds and a few Buff Orpingtons. I also like the Easter Eggers. So, basically, a mixture of breeds.
> 
> Ants and spiders are taking over the backyard so I'm especially eager to get some hen assassins out there!



Will you be ordering them online or get them locally?


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## Genipher (Aug 29, 2018)

RollingAcres said:


> Will you be ordering them online or get them locally?



Locally.


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## TAH (Aug 29, 2018)

Genipher said:


> Exactly! And you've been around my kids. The little girls especially love hugging on animals. They would be the ones to get their faces stabbed!
> 
> Have you thought about selling Tabby and replace her with a hornless doe?


I have but am not going to... I have her on getting halter trained and any time i'm doing anything where I'm in there pen for awhile I'll tie her up.


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## babsbag (Aug 30, 2018)

Congratulations on getting approved for goats. Remember that if you want to milk them you need to find someone with a buck to breed to every year. I doubt that one of your three approved goats is going to be a buck. I have LaManchas, Alpines, and mini alpines and the noisiest goat in my herd is an obnoxious bottle raised LaMancha. She wants my attention nonstop and it makes me crazy. The rest of my goats (I have over 50 of them) are very quiet.

I don't know where in OR you live but if you are still looking for goats come Feb-March I will have some (lots) for sale. I don't show, I have a dairy, but my goats are good milkers, healthy and tested.  They are registered with ADGA or the Mini dairy goat association. This will be my last year raising minis, it is just too hard to have another buck and to keep the smaller goats away from my standard sized bucks during rut.  I will breed them and probably sell them bred.


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## Alaskan (Aug 30, 2018)

I have one horned milk goat... she is the best milk goat ever... even people who have sworn off goats want to own her.

She is that good!

So... as to horns being bad... eh...  I think it super depends on the personality of the goat.

As to sound. I think my Saanen are the quietest. 

Nubians and Boars are LOUD!


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