# Just found two babies in the bucks' pen!  Update one week later



## Delighted (Apr 29, 2011)

LOL yeah I was surprised, too!  At first we thought we had 4 males.  Then two of them had litters (that died).
Then I thought I had them properly separated.  The two boys in one pen and the two girls in the other.

Well, this morning I found two baby bunnies in the bucks' run.  Their eyes are still closed but they are at least 3x bigger than the newborn babies in the previous litters that had died.  (So are they under two weeks?)

Our run/pen is an odd set up, but it works-- for now.  It's a 4' x 8' run, with a 4' x 4' house-- all origionally built for chickens.  The two bucks live with two Silkie roos-- (a bachelor pad!)  I figured there should be more babies, of the two in the run, one looked cold, and the chickens were stepping on it.  So i pulled those two out temporarily and the took the roof off the house part (easily removable).  Inside were 5 more babies-- all spread out and all dead.  No nest.  

Here's what I think happened-- mama probably did have a nest, or these guys wouldn't have been so fat and alive.  But with the bad storms that came through the south, (were were on the edge of it) we got deluged with rain.  The house is on ground slightly lower than the run.  Water pools on the flat parts of our yard in heavy rains.

I think that house got flooded.  The straw bedding was all wet and matted down, so that supports my theory. So my guess is that they drowned, or got too cold/wet.  Might be why they were scattered, trying to find warmth.  


I'm gonna type the rest in a second post. . .


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## Delighted (Apr 29, 2011)

I don't have any extra lumber or hardware cloth to fix the floor higher off the ground, so for now,  I plan on digging a trench around the house-- in hopes of thwarting another flood.  Then I have a wire cage, about 12" x 24 ", with a drop down door, which will make a ramp for mama to get inside.  The cage has 2-3" legs, so it will be off the floor.  We piled the cage with straw and put the bunnies in.  Put the cage in the pen and watched to see if mama bunny would be willing to go inside.  (Both adult rabbits went in, so I still don't know which is mama).

I hope this will suffice as a nest box.  I wasn't prepared for baby bunnies yet!  LOL! These babies are pretty active and crawl all over, so I'm guessing they will fall out eventually-- back onto the ground.  I have a thick layer of fresh straw, but that won't stay thick for long, as the traffic of two rabbits and two roosters presses it down.  

I'm guessing also, that since she is living with a buck, that the doe is already pregnant again-- how far, I don't know--and isn't it possible that there will be different aged fetuses from how ever many times he's mated with her?

I'm going to try to get a nice place built out for her and babies in the next few days--have to get wood and hardware cloth first.  (And hope these babies live--maybe mama thinks they've all died and won't nurse them?)

I have yet another question, but will post a new post again.  (seems when i ask too many questions in one post, they get missed)


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## Delighted (Apr 29, 2011)

Last Question--slightly related.  When i separated off the two I think are does, I based it on the litters.  I'll explain.

Litter one was born--6 of them, two on the wire, mama didn't do anything for them because of the confusion of 4 bunnies all over the place.  They froze within 24 hours.

Litter two was born 3 weeks later--didn't know I had another pregnant doe--these looked beat up--maybe killed by one or the other doe?

Litter three was born one week later.  Again, abandoned, left to freeze--I brought them in, tried to feed, tried to warm them-- tried too hard, I think I overheated them, and they died, too.


Here's my question:  This definately would have been TWO does giving birth to three litters?  (As opposed to one doe giving birth to three different aged litters due to living with the buck?)  

'Cuz I'm second guessing myself in my ability to tell the males from the females!  lol  Don't want to discover in the female pen that one's a male again, so more litters before I've built out the proper number of pens.  I wasn't planning on breeding the (supposedly) two does I had in there til I could build each her own place.


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## DianeS (Apr 29, 2011)

I'll do my best here...

First - you NEED to determine the sex of the adult rabbits. NEED. TO. Find tutorials on line, find photographs, get welding gloves or oven mitts if your rabbits object to being handled, get four friends to each hold a leg - whatever it takes. Get the sex determined and get them separated properly. Getting the separated properly will end all the trouble you're having to deal with, with the unexpected and unproductive litters that are such a headache. That's the only thing that will do it, which is why I'm emphasizing it so much. 

Second - any female that is with a male is pregnant. Including the mother of those new babies! Yes, she's pregnant again already, so plan for that.

Third - Yes, it's possible that all three litters that died were from the same mother. It's also possible they were from different mothers. No way to tell. Rabbits have two horns to their uteruses, and they can get pregnant in each horn at the same time or at two different times. They can get pregnant in each horn a day apart, a week apart, thee weeks apart - whatever. Sometimes the birth process for one set will trigger the birth process for the set in the other horn, leading to some premature birthed babies with the full term ones - other times not, and each is born at its own time. (That answers your different aged fetuses question too.)

Fourth - The babies you found are less than 10 days old. Eyes start to open on (or extremely close to) the tenth day. They're completely open on almost every kit by 14 days.

Am I missing any questions? Just repost them and we'll see what we can tell you. Hang in there!


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## terri9630 (Apr 30, 2011)

Pick up the rabbits and check the sex.  Have someone help hold the rabbits.  The does will have a slit, the bucks will have a circle and at their age if you gently push the penis will poke out.  

For boys  http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/sexingboys.shtml
For girls   http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/sexinggirls.shtml


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## currycomb (Apr 30, 2011)

and since they are breeding age, the bucks will have 2 sacks(testicles) hanging on either side of his boy parts


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## Delighted (May 2, 2011)

Thank you for all the replies! It took two more days to remove the male because I had to build a new pen. 

So now, I will assume the doe is pregnant, and could be due any time in the next 30 days from removal of the male.  And it could be more than one birthing time, more than one litter.  Will she kill the exisiting babies when the new babies come?  

Should I leave her with a nesting box from here on out? (Providing her with a litter box, too, in hopes of keeping her from peeing and pooping in the nest box)

So it's possible she could have gotten pregnant even while pregnant with these two, so there could be new babies this week, next week, three weeks from now and 30 days from now! SHEESH!  Is this correct?

Or will she give birth to all at the same time, so I'll see various ages of preemies mixed in with full term?

What should I be feeding her besides rabbit food?  And extra, at that? 

I plan on breeding for meat, so when I breed them on purpose, should I get an unrelated male?  (this male is brother to the does)

Siiiiigh, I need  good rabbit book--any suggestions?


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## DianeS (May 2, 2011)

LOL... I should have said step one is to BREATHE!

If it were me, I would give her a good nestbox, change the straw in it every week or so (cause she'll use it as a litterbox anyway), and just stop worrying. She will not kill one set of babies just because she has another set, no worries about that. 

Make sure the food and water bowls are set low enough that the young kits can get to them, and if mom does not have enough milk to feed the older ones they'll just start eating real food a bit early. 

Yes, you could have new kits any day. You don't know when breeding took place, so there's no telling. And yes you could have one litter, two litters, or a single mixed-age litter where half of them are too early to live. You can't plan this, and you can't affect it, so give her the nestbox and don't worry about timing. Just choose a nest box you can check easily.

I'd give mom a good, healthy rabbit pellet, some good quality hay, and as much of both as she wishes to eat. Some people give things like calf manna or alfalfa when the doe gets close to her due date, but you don't know when that due date is so I would not worry about it. 

And you do not need to get an unrelated male to breed meaties on purpose. I've been assured it takes multiple generations of line breeding before you get rabbits with three heads or fur that glows in the dark. 

Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits is a good book to get. Hang in there!


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## Delighted (May 3, 2011)

LOL yes, BREATHE! 


Ahhhhhh! Much better! 

Sheesh! I started out with what I thought was 4 males, figured we'd eat three and get some females--AFTER I'd built some new hutches!  Darn buggers started breeding like rabbits! Two of the mamas MAY be bad mamas, but their setups were all bad, so I'm giving them second/third chances AFTER they have their own pens.  (They're also on a 6 week rest since the last pregnancies, because I don't know if both were pregnant, or only one of them did all the work!)  

I'm building pens today.  


Siiiiigh, chickens with their 21 day incubation are easier!  LOL!


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## Delighted (May 6, 2011)

Update one week later:
The amle is back in the large pen with the Silkie roos.  (I had him in one I'd gotten from freecycle, but it was horribly small when he'd had 12' of pen to race around in.  Also the floor needs work.

Built a nice pen for mama and babies and she moved in yesterday.  She hates it.  (She had the 12' pen to race around in, and wasn't bothered by the roos).  The new pen looked great til I put the roof on--it makes the place horribly dark.  I'm going to have to change some things, but for now it'll have to do.  

She is very definitely pregnant.  She isn't easy to get ahold of and hold, so I can't palpate, but her tummy is very large.  Probably a combination of full teats and babies growing inside.  

The two babies are ADORABLE!!! 

Eyes are open, they hop around a little bit,  their ears stand up a bit.  They're fat little buggers!  Can anyone direct me to pictures of two week old babies?  This is my guess at the age.  I hope mama has another couple weeks, but who knows?   

I sure feel better with them in a safer cage, but I feel bad that mama doesn't like it that much.  I'm in the process of building another, and will make sure it's not as dark inside.  I'm thinking I want to get the --is it plastic?--roofing that is transluscent, so some light can get in.


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## terri9630 (May 6, 2011)

The clear roofing will create a lot of heat.  I'd just use wire.


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## Delighted (May 7, 2011)

Terri9630, my bunny pens are outside so it would rain on them--but i have thought about putting wire on, and raisin the roof about 6 inches,   would give more light, but still keep 'em outa the rain.  I didn't realze the clear roofing would create heat--that's a no-go!


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