# Has anyone treated CL with formalin?



## Goatgirl12 (Jun 25, 2013)

We just discovered a few does with CL (no I didn't have a sample tested but I'm 99.9% sure that is what it is because it's in the right spots).  Back in the day when I was in 4-H my Dad used to lance them but I really don't think that is going to work now.  I have been reading about injecting formalin but didn't know if anyone had personal experience with it and if it actually worked for them.  Thanks so much!


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## DonnaBelle (Jun 26, 2013)

I have not read about or heard anyone say anything about injecting formalin.

Please be careful with CL it can be transmitted to humans.  And if an abcess breaks, and goes into the soil it will be there forever.

Some abcesses are not CL.  You can only be sure by having a vet collect a sample and send it off for testing.

DonnaBelle


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 26, 2013)

Funny, I was going to mention DonnaBells as the person I think who told us about formalin once but guess not   .  What I recall reading was that it was a very painful treatment and does not do much.  Better and safer to wait for the abscess to clear on its own or have a vet lance it and cover the area.

I'll do a quick looksie for the post I am thinking about.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 26, 2013)

Didn't find that but some info from other sources:

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/CLFormalin.html



> For years on ChevonTalk, the Internet meat-goat education and discussion group that I own on Yahoogroups, Dr. Rosemarie Szostak has recounted how she gained control over Caseous Lymphadenitis in her herd. Dr. Szostak, who holds a PhD in chemistry and is also a goat owner, injected Formalin into the abscesses. Formalin, classified as a disinfectant, is a 10% buffered solution of formaldehyde. I have concluded that my original rejection of this course of treatment was wrong. While Formalin usage *will not cure CL* (nothing will, at present), it does provide an effective management and control alternative.
> 
> I used to recommend confining the infected goat, lancing the abscess, draining the exudate (pus), and medicating the site. *The problem is that if this procedure is not done at precisely the right time and under the right conditions, the situation deteriorates.* If the abscess is lanced too soon, it festers and gets worse. Very little if any pus and (sometimes) lots of fluid is present, since the abscess has not matured to the stage at which the pus is soft enough to be squeezed out. If the cutting is done too late, the risk is that the knot may rupture on its own -- contaminating the other goats and their environment. Either way, this infectious bacteria has a great chance of finding a home on your property.
> 
> The right time to open and clean out an abscess is when the hair is just beginning to come off and the knot is becoming soft. The problem is that this seems to occur in differing timeframes in individual goats. (I suspect that this is related to the efficiency of the individual goats immune system as well as the amount of CL bacteria present in its body.) Some CL abscesses seem to appear almost overnight (they really don't -- producers just haven't been observant enough), while other goats have knots appear very slowly and literally take weeks or months to develop from undefined mass into a roundish abscess. Some abscesses encapsulate into several knots, while others become a single mass. Pregnant does are a special problem, because the producer obviously doesn't want newborn kids exposed to the CL bacteria. The producer who owns many goats has a huge problem trying to isolate every infected goat, while watching and waiting for that 'right time' to clean out the abscess.


http://www.aces.edu/pubs/docs/U/UNP-0085/



> Although formaldehyde is effective in treating abscesses it can be caustic and irritant to the skin, mucosa membranes, and lungs. Formaldehyde is toxic, can be diffused through the skin to other organs, and has an accumulative effect in the goats body. Formaldehyde is also a carcinogenic agent to humans and is not allowed in animals, including those consumed by humans. Some producers have reported losses of animals after the inoculation of formaldehyde in the treatment of CL abscesses. Formaldehyde can be found in the meat and milk after being infused in abscesses.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 26, 2013)

there is a CL vaccine out for goats can order it through Jeffers.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Jun 26, 2013)

I really like OCR and the research done by her but this is not a good way. Lancing is best and even SWG lances. She doesn't use the formalin anymore. She is the only person I know that talked about it an did it and she no longer does it. I've talked to her and if you want sure proof, call or email her. She'll tell you to lance it just as I will.

Also, it's EXTREMELY painful not to mention you are putting straight poison into them.


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## BlondeSquirrel04 (Jun 27, 2013)

> Although formaldehyde is effective in treating abscesses it can be caustic and irritant to the skin, mucosa membranes, and lungs. Formaldehyde is toxic, can be diffused through the skin to other organs, and has an accumulative effect in the goats body. Formaldehyde is also a carcinogenic agent to humans and is not allowed in animals, including those consumed by humans. Some producers have reported losses of animals after the inoculation of formaldehyde in the treatment of CL abscesses. Formaldehyde can be found in the meat and milk after being infused in abscesses.


I wouldn't put too much weight in that article above. Formaldehyde is a gas. Formalin is liquid. The fact that they refer to the wrong form during the entire article makes me question its validity. An abscess walls off bacteria or a foreign body from the rest of the animal to prevent the spread of infection, so I'm doubting their claim that it's found in meat and milk. And at 1 cc injected per abscess, I'd not worry so much.

I'd lance, drain, treat the wound, and move forward. Formalin does have its advantages, but also is riskier than just lancing and cleaning.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jun 27, 2013)

BlondeSquirrel04 said:
			
		

> > Although formaldehyde is effective in treating abscesses it can be caustic and irritant to the skin, mucosa membranes, and lungs. Formaldehyde is toxic, can be diffused through the skin to other organs, and has an accumulative effect in the goats body. Formaldehyde is also a carcinogenic agent to humans and is not allowed in animals, including those consumed by humans. Some producers have reported losses of animals after the inoculation of formaldehyde in the treatment of CL abscesses. Formaldehyde can be found in the meat and milk after being infused in abscesses.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't put too much weight in that article above. Formaldehyde is a gas. Formalin is liquid. The fact that they refer to the wrong form during the entire article makes me question its validity. An abscess walls off bacteria or a foreign body from the rest of the animal to prevent the spread of infection, so I'm doubting their claim that it's found in meat and milk. And at 1 cc injected per abscess, I'd not worry so much.
> ...


Yes, it can be a gas.  It is also used in liquid form for several other application (like when we preserve animal for the biology lab use a formaldehyde solution or when bodies are embalmed, same thing).


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## Goatgirl12 (Jun 27, 2013)

Thanks for your replies.  I did end up using it on 3 does - they are all doing fine today.  Obviously I'm keeping a close watch on them, I will let you know what happens.  I just needed to try it myself to see how it worked.  I will keep you updated on the situation.


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## Egg_Newton (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm curious how your girls ended up doing? I have a new doe who I think may have CL. She has a lump forming right underneath her jawbone.


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## Chevoner (Aug 29, 2013)

Could your new doe have bottle-jaw? A tooth abscess, or perhaps an issue with her thyroid or thymus gland? Does she have wattles (maybe a wattle cyst)? It may not be CL. I would recommend having her tested. Good luck to you, and let us know how it goes.


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