# How do you get a 2,000 lb bull in a trailer?



## siroiszoo (Sep 20, 2009)

I raise horses & chickens so I have no idea how to get a 2,000 pound bull in a trailer so he can go to auction.  

He belongs to my neighbor who just got transferred to California by his employer.  The neighbor has deligated people to care for his place while he is gone.  One guy has been deligated to get the man's cows to marker while it is my job to care for the pasturage while he is gone.  The guy got the cows loaded and to market, but for two Saturdays in a row, he has been trying to get the bull loaded.

The sooner that bull goes the sooner my horses get the pasture which I really, really, really need!  (We've had a pretty severe drought here in Texas and my pasture is gone.)

I watched and helped to the degree I was able, yesterday.

I see three problems:

1) the bull is 2,000 pounds and not afraid of anything.
2) the bull is 2,000 pounds and doesn't want to get in the trailer.
3) the bull is 2,000 pounds and is very upset that his girls are gone.

oh yeah,

4) the bull is 2,000 pounds and smarter than the humans left in charge of getting him to market.

It took 4 hours just to get him in the stock area, another hour to get him into the shoot - which he immediately turned around in  and left no solution for getting him the right direction for loading into the trailer.  After another hour, he decided he didn't want to be there and bent, snapped, and broke all the rails, the gate on the shoot, and the adjoining panels before lifting the whole thing up and going out underneath the whole thing.

so, then

5)  the bull is 2,000 pounds and the neighbor didn't build his shoot & stock area sturdy enough for an animal that large.


Oh, and another thing, the guy's wife got in the pen with the bull - against everyone's advice & warning.  So this bull penned her against the fence and broke several ribs before we got her out.  Thank God he didn't have horns!

So now, the bull is very, very upset and knows he can hurt people.  NICE!  

So back to my question:  How do you get a 2,000 pound bull in the trailer so we can get him to market?

I'm desperate to get that bull out of that pasture before he starts breaking fence lines to get to other cows nearby.

ANOTHER QUESTION:  If I do manage to get him loaded, what do I do with him?  Are there only certain days you can haul cows to auction/market or can you do it any day of the week?


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## jhm47 (Sep 20, 2009)

There are several options here.  One is to hire a veterinarian and tranquilize the animal with a dart gun.  Second is to make an appointment with a butcher and shoot the bull in his head with a large caliber high powered rifle.  Have a loader handy and haul the bull to the butcher.  The bull will make wonderful hamburger and sausage.

One thing is for sure, whatever you do--------BE CAREFUL.  Animals like this are nothing to fool with, especially when you are not used to handling animals like this.  Good luck!


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## siroiszoo (Sep 20, 2009)

Thank you jhm47.   I did make the suggestion yesterday; kill it where it stands and off to butcher.  Will butchers take a fresh kill in Texas?  I thought they had regulated them to death so they couldn't do that.

I will certainly pass your suggestions on to the guy in charge of this project.   The vet idea might be a solution.

I wonder what it would cost to hire cowboys to wrangle this thing into a trailer; or even how you'd go about finding  men who would do this kind of job?


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## Cara (Sep 20, 2009)

Yes there are guys who will help..for a small fee.  You might post an ad on Craigslist looking for help.  Someone with some Black Mouth Curs could certainly help


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## oldbarncat (Sep 20, 2009)

We had a similar problem here and our bull  had horns.It was either get the Vet out ,tranquillize him and winch him into the trailer or shoot him, hoist him up, clean him and quarter him to go to the Slaughter house. We opted for the second.


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## siroiszoo (Sep 20, 2009)

Yeah oldbarncat, I'm thinking that may very well be what we have to do but I need to check around first.  I do believe that the FDA (or whatever) regulated the mess out of the butchers & slaughter houses around these parts.  I remember hearing that a number of family owned shops had gone out of business due to all the federal changes. 

If that is the case & we can't get him to market alive, then we will have to wait til winter and do the  butchering ourselves.  Just not real sure how we will get that much meat processed by ourselves.  The largest thing we've ever done on our own would be a gigantic farel hog that wound up in our yard one day.

Ya'll tell me if I'm crazy, but if I can talk the guy in charge of this mess into parking a trailer by my side of the property for a week (the bull hangs out there anyway to keep company with my horses), I'm thinking I can get that sucker in there with a large bale of alfalfa pushed up into the nose of the trailer so he has to go in to get it.  I figure I might be able to do it on my own considering he's used to seeing me there and doesn't associate me with the guys trying to wrangle his big butt into a trailer headed for slaughter.

Just a thought.


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## Imissmygirls (Sep 20, 2009)

You may want to sweeten the pot with some grain too. 
My Question:  Can the TRAILER hold this boy? I'd hate to see him break out on the way down the road.  Then, of course, you don't have much option with what happens.

Ask around. Usually there are some local butchers still operating. The key may be that the meat is for your own consumption, not for sale.


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## jhm47 (Sep 20, 2009)

Since you will not be selling the meat, I suspect that your butcher will not need to have it inspected.  At least that's the way it works here in South Dakota.  

After thinking about your predicament, I would rather have the animal shot in the pasture.  The dart/drug option might work to get him loaded, but how much drug residue will be left in the meat?  Also, if you have him roped and haul him to the butcher, will his meat be affected by the extra adrenaline from being chased?  I'd shoot him in the pasture, and he won't know what hit him.  Quick, easy, safe, and end of problem.


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## Beekissed (Sep 20, 2009)

I'd grain him for a few days with a red bucket while giving a cattle call.  Then back up the trailer to the gate, place the red bucket in the trailer, give a call, open the gate and see if it works. 

 That's how they got my granny's bull, Tiny Tim, in the stock trailer.  It took 6 guys at the livestock sales to get him UNLOADED but, by then, it wasn't her problem!  

That bull was a horribly MEAN piece of beef..... 



> ANOTHER QUESTION:  If I do manage to get him loaded, what do I do with him?  Are there only certain days you can haul cows to auction/market or can you do it any day of the week?


You need to call your local livestock auction/sale and ask what days and times you can bring your baaaaaad to the bone bull.  You might also ask them for advice...they do this every week!


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## siroiszoo (Sep 21, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Since you will not be selling the meat, I suspect that your butcher will not need to have it inspected.  At least that's the way it works here in South Dakota.
> 
> After thinking about your predicament, I would rather have the animal shot in the pasture.  The dart/drug option might work to get him loaded, but how much drug residue will be left in the meat?  Also, if you have him roped and haul him to the butcher, will his meat be affected by the extra adrenaline from being chased?  I'd shoot him in the pasture, and he won't know what hit him.  Quick, easy, safe, and end of problem.


You make a most excellent observation.  I was worried, myself, about the affects (effects?) of sedation & food consumption.  Since it appears to be a common practice in these parts, it really makes you wonder about what we are ingesting.  (Wonder if that's why I crave hamburgers so much; the calming affect one has on me LOL!)  

I hadn't thought about the adrenaline aspect, but I imagine you are most definitely correct in that line of thought, as well.

Not sure if I can train a 5 or 7 year old bull, but I would like to get him calmly in the trailer with food.  So far, I've been able to train him to meet me at the fence for his dinner - now that all his cows are gone and he's always been fairly well bonded with my horses.  He knows my feeding schedule for them and has quickly picked up on the fact that I will throw a minimal amount of food in one spot for him.  If I can talk the guy in charge of this mess into parking a trailer close to where he hangs out by my fenceline, I'll start putting the feed in the trailer.  At least that's the plan.  I have no idea if it will work.  One thing is for sure.  He won't go near the stock & shoot area where he's been traumatized for two weeks in a row.

Thanks.


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## siroiszoo (Sep 21, 2009)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> I'd grain him for a few days with a red bucket while giving a cattle call.  Then back up the trailer to the gate, place the red bucket in the trailer, give a call, open the gate and see if it works.


Beekissed,  that wouldn't even work when we finally got him in the shoot last week.   We tried for hours with the food bucket; even tried with a red shirt.  He was not under any circumstances going in the trailer and he knew very well that we didn't have anything big enough to make him.  I was very nearly to the point of seeing if he would chase me in, but wasn't suicidal enough on that day to give it a try. LOL!

However, I do wish I'd thought of running up and buying a juicy bale of alfalfa.  Later, after we gave up, I heard that cutting open a bale in the nose of the trailer puts off a very strong odor that will make any cow/bull jump in the trailer.  And I do know that this bull likes the alfalfa cubes I've been testing him out with.

You know, at first I wanted him gone so bad I could taste it.  The sooner he's gone the sooner my horses get on some nice green grass.  Since my pasture was lost to the drought this year - also due to size & number of animals on it - the sooner the better.

But now I feel sorry for him.  And since manhandling him obviously isn't getting anywhere, I'd rather see him shot on the spot verses being put through any more stress.  He's been on that pasture since he was born and gentled to the status of being a pet.  He wasn't even mean until everyone started trying to force him in the trailer.  Everyone keeps calling him stupid but I'm thinking we are the stupid ones cause he seems pretty darned smart to me.  And it's obvious that he's learning very quickly from each attempt to load him.  He can't understand why his world has been turned upside down in a matter of weeks and he knows something bad is gonna happen if he gets on that trailer.  He must cause he's been loaded a few times in the past; since birth for whatever reasons.

It's looking like the saga will continue until they try again this coming Saturday to  get him to market.

Keep the suggestions coming and I will keep everyone up to date on the situation.

Thanks!


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## jhm47 (Sep 21, 2009)

It's a very common problem for those who are not really acquainted with cattle to build a corral/chute, and not build it strong enough.  The strength of cattle (let alone a bull) is unbelievable.  Those of us who have grown up raising cattle sometimes don't build things strong enough, and have to learn our lesson again.  This is why as an EMT, I urge everyone to be as careful as possible around any livestock.  One of the most important things that can be done is to DEHORN your cattle.  It's safer for the cattle, and also for those who must handle them.  I've seen bulls fight many times.  One time I saw a couple bulls pushing each other around, and they snapped off a railroad tie that was set in concrete in the ground.  Snapped it like it was a toothpick.  They can also go through or over a steel gate like nothing if they really want to.  

One other thing---I've been raising cattle for nearly 60 years now, and it's my opinion that they are color blind.  Red means nothing to them as far as I can tell, so a red bucket or shirt is meaningless.  Of course, that's just my humble opinion.  I'm sure that there are some who will disagree, but if you want, I'll wear a red Santa suit and chase bulls all day long.  lol!


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## laughingllama75 (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm sure that there are some who will disagree, but if you want, I'll wear a red Santa suit and chase bulls all day long.  lol!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Oh dear God.....Please don't! LOL. I think they are color blind (well, at least I don't think red really bothers them any more than any other color).


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## siroiszoo (Sep 21, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> I've been raising cattle for nearly 60 years now...


I was wondering if you didnt' have a lifetime of experience behind you.  Your posts hinted toward that conclusion.

I've been around cattle for nearly 25 years in the sense that everyone I know either has them or they run herds next door to me , etc., etc.  I've even fed a few herds from time to time.  And all the friends cowboy, which is why I'm looking for a newer idea on this forum.   But I have never personally raised cattle & thereby never really learned too much about them.  Cattle ignorant, I am.

I've only seen one corral/chute (thanks for the correct spelling) that would be sturdy enough for this bull.  It was built using solid heavy lumber & utility poles every four feet and the design was curved with the largest series of solid gates I have ever seen; there were no corners or straight pathways and nothing to get their head through; also very tall.  It was solid in every sense of the word.   Hard to describe but it was built after a very similar experience in getting a full grown bull to market (a friend's bull; about 30 years ago).  My husband & I plus a few more friends wound up having to help him quarter it in the field that day. And the very next weekend, that friend started building his new corral & chute.   LOL!   And as you mentioned, there is always the ONE that will break it or go over it.  Nothing is 100% guaranteed.

Anyway, since the owner is gone in this case and the whole thing has been handled badly from the start, I'd still like to see that this gets done the best way possible.  Even if that includes having to repeat the adventure we had 30 years ago. 

I don't believe there is such thing as a dumb animal, unless it is genetically/medically so.  I've been totally amazed at how quickly this bull is learning.  If the guys try one thing and it fails I can guarantee you, the bull won't fall for it twice.  I don't know if this is typical of cattle or not.  And I'd swear that thing can read the emotion of the people working with it.   Plus, his stamina is such that everyone wears out before the bull does.  And when the guy brought his cow pony in to help corral it, the bull just looked at him as if to say, "What do you think you're gonna do with that?"  The guy had to use the cracking sound of a whip to get the bull to move - which doesn't work any more as this bull gets desensitized to things very quickly.   So am I grasping at thin air to think there is a better way to work with this bull in order to trailer load him?

Am I wasting my time looking for techniques I can use while "everyone is away" and the bull is a bit quieter?   

In my mind, there should be a way to get this done in a calmer fashion and in a way that seems logical to the bull.  And  he's coming to me (or the gate where my fence joins the neighbor's) for food and looking to my small herd of horses for comfort & companionship.  This is a bond he's built since he was born out here.  They have always slept side by side with only the fence dividing them at night.   They've never been in the same pasture together.

Is it incredibly stupid of me to think I can teach - at this late date - this bull to go into a stock trailer for food?  Should I just give up and let the scenario play out?    If I can't figure something out by Saturday, he'll have to suffer through cowboys this weekend.  And like you mentioned jhm47, he'll be full of drugs & adrenaline by the time he hits market.  Not to mention all the weight he's dropping throughout this experience.  What I fear most is the fact that this guy has ever intention of loading him into a long slant load horse trailer with a sleeper compartment on it.   I'll take my camera and post the before & after pictures if they succeed in that.

I've been trying to convince them to do what it takes to get the owner's stock trailer, which is still here in Texas, and either park it so I can try getting the bull to go in for food, or at least to cowboy the bull into the owners stock trailer - if that is what they are determined to do.

It could just be me but all kinds of interesting drama flashes through my head when I picture that bull in an aluminum slant load horse trailer.


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## siroiszoo (Sep 21, 2009)

laughingllama75 said:
			
		

> I'm sure that there are some who will disagree, but if you want, I'll wear a red Santa suit and chase bulls all day long.  lol!
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Oh dear God.....Please don't! LOL. I think they are color blind (well, at least I don't think red really bothers them any more than any other color).


By the way, from this present experience, I do believe you are correct about the color red.

But do, please, get the video camera out and make a video to post on YouTube for us if you do the santa suit thing.


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## jhm47 (Sep 21, 2009)

Oh, I'd bet he could be tricked into going into the trailer.  I once had an old hereford/shorthorn cow that calved on pasture.  I waited till she was eating hay, and sneaked down into the ravine where the calf lay to eartag it.  My dad was watching, and as I squeezed the eartagger, the calf bellowed.  I just remember my dad yelling "Look out!".   The next thing I remember is tasting blood and cow poop.  That cow had come down the hill and hit me and knocked me cold.  Luckily she ran off with her calf and didn't continue to nail me.  Later that fall, we had the cattle in a pasture about 10 miles from our home farm.  We got all the cattle loaded and hauled home except this one and her calf.  She got very belligerent, and would attack anyone who came near her.  She was chasing me around through a thicket of Russian Olive trees, and I was wondering if she wasn't going to get me, but I found an old metal bucket, and hit that with a stick.  The noise scared her off.  Then, one day I got a neighbor over with his horse.  He roped the cow off the horse, and the cow attacked the horse.  She knocked the horse down, and then went after the neighbor.  He escaped, but the cow ran around with his rope for several weeks.  We finally caught the calf, and tied it in the front of my horse trailer.  Left him in there for a few days, and let the cow try to get him out.  We were unable to approach the trailer without the cow attacking us.  Finally, I sneaked up to the trailer one day, and climbed on top.  I was able to open the door, and sit on the top of the trailer for an hour or so, and lo and behold, the cow went in.  I quickly shut the door and locked it.  Hauled that dirty old red bugger to the sale barn, and sold the calf too.  I'd have paid someone to take her, but she brought pretty good money.  Hope I never have one like that again.


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## siroiszoo (Sep 21, 2009)

Wow jhm47!  I'm beginning to think my bull problem isn't all that bad - LOL!!! 

Thanks for sharing that adventure.  I guess it's down to me tricking the bull in the trailer OR the cowboys.  If it turns out to be the cowboys, I'm taking my camera for video footage


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## laughingllama75 (Sep 21, 2009)

siroiszoo said:
			
		

> Wow jhm47!  I'm beginning to think my bull problem isn't all that bad - LOL!!!
> 
> Thanks for sharing that adventure.  I guess it's down to me tricking the bull in the trailer OR the cowboys.  If it turns out to be the cowboys, I'm taking my camera for video footage


wait, now your going to trick the cowboys on the trailer and do what with the video tape? LOL, I couldn't resist. Sorry. I apologize ahead of time.


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## oldbarncat (Sep 21, 2009)

Yeppers.. had a neighbour do that..parked the trailer in the middle of his field ,put in nice hay and grain and waited. Finally got him after a week.


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## siroiszoo (Sep 21, 2009)

laughingllama75 said:
			
		

> siroiszoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well, I meant either I gotta trick the bull into the trailer if the guy in charge of this fiasco will drop the trailer off for me.

OR

Use the cowboys on Saturday to wrangle the bull into the trailer.  I prefer the first option but it's not up to me.

If the guy planning this thing does it his way with the cowboys, I will video tape it because I'm sure it will be very entertaining to see the answer to my questions:  How do you get a 2,000 pound bull in the trailer.

LOL!

HOWEVER...... Things do get pretty boring around here.  Maybe it would be MORE entertaining to trick the cowboys into the trailer but I will have to think about what I'd do next once I got them in!  (Okay...this is probably going too far LOL)


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## laughingllama75 (Sep 21, 2009)

Hey, in answer to your question ..... "how do you"
VERY CAREFULLY!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist. The only way I have done it, is in quarters. (the bull in quarters, that is)


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## jhm47 (Sep 21, 2009)

You could probably lure those cowboys into the trailer with beer and chewing tobacco.


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## laughingllama75 (Sep 21, 2009)

I see someone has this all figured out........


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## siroiszoo (Sep 21, 2009)

I love you guys!  You make me laugh!


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## Beekissed (Sep 22, 2009)

> One other thing---I've been raising cattle for nearly 60 years now, and it's my opinion that they are color blind.  Red means nothing to them as far as I can tell, so a red bucket or shirt is meaningless.  Of course, that's just my humble opinion.  I'm sure that there are some who will disagree, but if you want, I'll wear a red Santa suit and chase bulls all day long.  lol!


Color blind does not mean they can not learn to distinguish between the subtle shadings involved in different colors of black, white and grey.  

I used red as a color but could just as well have used yellow.  Using the same color each time means they can associate that particular _shade_ as a food receptacle.  

I have trained my sheep and bottle calf to recognize different colors of receptacles.  I use a red bucket for watering.  They don't really respond to this bucket and so do not get in my way when I am carrying a sloshing 5 gal. bucket across uneven terrain.  

I use a green bucket for grain or treats.....I get MOBBED while carrying the green bucket!  These buckets are the same shape and size, BTW.  They can spot the green bucket from an acre away and come thundering out of the orchard to investigate the green bucket.  

If I want them to go where I want, I merely place the green bucket in that pen, trailer, etc.   They are more than eager to go there.  If I place the red bucket there, they could care less. 

I have a blue bucket that carries minerals and salt.  It gets a mild reaction but not much, since they have this free choice already.

I guess I have the only color sensitive livestock on the planet!


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## laughingllama75 (Sep 22, 2009)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> > One other thing---I've been raising cattle for nearly 60 years now, and it's my opinion that they are color blind.  Red means nothing to them as far as I can tell, so a red bucket or shirt is meaningless.  Of course, that's just my humble opinion.  I'm sure that there are some who will disagree, but if you want, I'll wear a red Santa suit and chase bulls all day long.  lol!
> 
> 
> Color blind does not mean they can not learn to distinguish between the subtle shadings involved in different colors of black, white and grey.
> ...


Well, I think I have to agree with you on the aspect of training animals to color shades. I am sure thats how they do it with training the bullfight bulls. Even though I think they are "color blind", I assume they do see in shades, as people who are coor blind see colors too. Neat subject.......


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## siroiszoo (Sep 22, 2009)

Re:  Color blind cattle from wikipedia - 


A common misconception about cattle (particularly bulls) is that they are enraged by the color red (something provocative is often said to be "like a red flag to a bull"). This is incorrect, as cattle are red-green color-blind.[31][32] The myth arose from the use of red capes in the sport of bullfighting; in fact, two different capes are used. The capote is a large, flowing cape that is magenta and yellow. The more famous muleta is the smaller, red cape, used exclusively for the final, fatal segment of the fight. It is not the color of the cape that angers the bull, but rather the movement of the fabric that irritates the bull and incites it to charge.

Although cattle cannot distinguish red from green, they do have two kinds of color receptors in the cone cells in their retinas. Thus they are dichromatic, the same as most other mammals (including dogs, cats, horses and up to ten percent of male humans). They are able to distinguish some colors, particularly blue from yellow, in the same way as most other mammals.[33][34]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle


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## laughingllama75 (Sep 22, 2009)

Huh, see......this is a neat subject. still doesn't help you with your getting the bull on trailer problem, but neat none-the-less.


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## oldbarncat (Sep 22, 2009)

this has been a wonderful entertaining thread... love you guys!


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## siroiszoo (Sep 22, 2009)

I've been thinking about this.  The guy in charge of this mess doesn't seem to be going for my idea since the trailer still isn't parked in the pasture.   So, I was thinking.  I will get my camera charged up so I can take video of whatever happens.  When the trailer gets here on Saturday (if it does), I'm gonna throw a bale of alfalfa and a case of beer (jhm47's idea) in that trailer and see what goes in first.     If neither goes into that trailer, I'm gonna go in the trailer, get comfortable on the bale of alfalfa, drink a few beers and work on plan C.

But if I catch the cowboys first, how much do you think they will fetch at auction?  Maybe I should throw some steaks in there to fatten them up before we get to auction.

But seriously, that bull needs to go.  I'm getting attached to him.  I've started running my horses with him out of desperation for pasture.  Plus I'm trying to make sure the bull doesn't start tearing down fence line (he seems happy when my horses are with him & happier when the other neighbor's cows come into the opposite pasture to graze).   So far, so good.  However, when I call the horses in at night, I get him first; he comes trotting up.  Then I gotta maneuver things so that only the horses come through the gate.  It makes me pretty nervous but the bull patiently waits for me to get the horses fed and for me to come back to him with his grain.  I'm really not a fan of this situation and I'm proceeding with caution.   Well, counting down the days 'til Saturday.  I wonder if he will be gone by then?


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## oldbarncat (Sep 22, 2009)

Now I got reg Jersey bull here by the name of Bullwinkle..actually that is his pet name. We hand raise him from birth. This guys is so gentle. All his life he has played with a plastic water barrell. We toss it to him and he tosses it back..When he sees us, he will go round up his barrell and with his horns, toss it over to the fence for us. Then bounce around like some dog waiting for a ball ..We toss it and he throws it back. And of course, he comes to his name and is a real pest too


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## Beekissed (Sep 23, 2009)

I've heard of folks winching a bull into a trailer....a live bull, that is.  Just a slow, gentle pull....until he had to go there, no choice.  I would say with a bull like yours, it would take a heck of a winch!


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## siroiszoo (Sep 23, 2009)

A picture of all my troubles (or most of them for this week  )

I've named him:  George.


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## oldbarncat (Sep 23, 2009)

yummm... hamburgers!.. at least he is hornless..


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## lilhill (Sep 23, 2009)

Awwwww, he looks like a pussy cat.  Just go on and lead him in there.  NOT!


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## WildRoseBeef (Sep 23, 2009)

siroiszoo said:
			
		

> A picture of all my troubles (or most of them for this week  )
> 
> I've named him:  George.
> 
> ...


Is he a White Park?


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## currycomb (Sep 23, 2009)

sounds like you need a cow and a large stock trailer. place cow in front section with feed and water. open back door with long rope attached to be able to close without approaching trailer. sit back and enjoy the day. the bull will be eaisier to haul with a friend. works for horses, why not bulls? :/


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## siroiszoo (Sep 23, 2009)

WildRoseBeef said:
			
		

> http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/uploads/1034_the_bull_005a.jpg
> Is he a White Park?


Don't get me to lying.  I don't know the first thing about cows except how wonderfully delicious they taste on my dinner plate; preferably in the form of a steak or a hamburger.

Next time I hear from the owner or see the guy in charge of this mess, I'll ask for you if you're real interested in knowing.


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## siroiszoo (Sep 23, 2009)

currycomb said:
			
		

> sounds like you need a cow and a large stock trailer. place cow in front section with feed and water. open back door with long rope attached to be able to close without approaching trailer. sit back and enjoy the day. the bull will be eaisier to haul with a friend. works for horses, why not bulls? :/


Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!  I offered that suggestion last weekend, but nobody went for it.  After all, he's missin his ladies and he gets real happy everytime the girls (cows) from across the street come into the pasture that is across from him.


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## siroiszoo (Sep 23, 2009)

lilhill said:
			
		

> Awwwww, he looks like a pussy cat.  Just go on and lead him in there.  NOT!


Last weekend, I was so desperate to see him go that I was VERY, VERY tempted to jump into the chute and run into the trailer just to see if I could get him to follow me (or more correctly, chase me) into the trailer!  However, as I looked that trailer over, there was no side door at the front that I could jump out of.  Also, I'm pretty much Calamity Jane who can't walk & chew gum at the same time.  I could just picture myself falling as I tried to leap into the back of the trailer so that the bull could stomp me, head butt me or do some other horrible thing to my detriment.


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## amysflock (Sep 23, 2009)

Yeah, if you don't have an escape door in the front of the trailer, I wouldn't recommend going in there first in front of this big, ornery guy!

We just left our regional Highland show where one breeder traded a 2-year old bull for another breeder's yearling + heifer. The bull's owners pulled out and headed home with their new girl, leaving the bull behind. He wigged out, broke three leads (but wasn't tied to the wall by his nose ring as required, shame on the new owners), and it took seven of us to hold him until the new owners could get their trailer to load him in. THEN once in the trailer, he wigged further, tangled himself up and knocked himself down after choking himself by the neck lead. They had to cut more leads. I guess now he's fine at his new home, but that was about the scariest thing I'd ever witnessed.

I like the ideas presented earlier of having him dispatched at the farm rather than hauling him live, if that's a viable option. It would save you this nightmare and prevent any serious injuries to you or anyone else trying to load him.

As for the poster with the "tame" Jersey bull...be very, very careful. From what I've heard Jersey bulls are the very worst of all, especially hand-raised ones.


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## Beekissed (Sep 24, 2009)

That is a beautiful bull and he _does_ look like English Park cattle...very pretty breed!  

Poor guy!  Who would want to eat that purdy widdle woodums, just look at the cute widdle sweety babyface snookums!


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## siroiszoo (Sep 26, 2009)

It's the day!  Does the bull go or does the bull stay?

First of all, the _Guy In Charge Of This Mess_ says that if the bull isn't in the trailer by the time he gets off from work, he knows a guy that knows a guy that will load this bull for $50 + a 12 pack (or 24 pack?) of beer.  I gotta feeling this bull is going to have a very bad day, today.

*POLL:*  Is it wise to load a 2,000 pound bull into a trailer with no truck hooked up to it?  The trailer is just sitting in the pasture.


So far, I'm thinking the bull is staying.  _The Guy In Charge Of This Mess_ finally dropped the trailer off but there are several problems:

A) he  unhooked from the trailer and took off to work.  No way I'm loading a 2,000 pound bull into any kind of trailer with nothing hooked to it to stabilize it.

B)  _The guy_ keeps the little slide door (on the back of the trailer door) open for the bull to go into.  That might work for heifers & steers but I'm thinking the whole back door needs to be open.  Seems to me that bull doesn't think he can fit through the door.

c)  Instead of a whole bale of alfalfa in the nose of the trailer, they put 3 little flakes up there with some old crumbling cubes around it to intice the bull.  Obviously, he doesn't care for his livestock as well as the owner of the 2,000 pound bull did.  No way that bull is going for it.  Not even enough aroma to entice him.

AND d)  Does it look to you like he wants to go?












He'd rather hang out with his friends:


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## jhm47 (Sep 26, 2009)

Close the small door, and open the big one.  The trailer will be OK.  The balance point is far enough back so it most likely won't tip back.  Put some corn in the trailer in a line so the bull can get some without having to get in, but if he wants more he will need to enter it.  Stay behind the big door, and when he gets totally in the trailer, shut the door.  Good luck!


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## siroiszoo (Sep 26, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Close the small door, and open the big one.  The trailer will be OK.  The balance point is far enough back so it most likely won't tip back.  Put some corn in the trailer in a line so the bull can get some without having to get in, but if he wants more he will need to enter it.  Stay behind the big door, and when he gets totally in the trailer, shut the door.  Good luck!


Thanks!  I was concerned about the trailer not being hooked up.   I got everything done except the corn.  About to go back out with that.  That darned bull is too smart.  I've gotten him close to it but he won't eat a thing from it; not even alfalfa.

I sure would like to get him in there calm and peaceful.  But I'm afraid the rowdy people are gonna show up before that happens.

I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## laughingllama75 (Sep 26, 2009)

good luck!


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## siroiszoo (Sep 26, 2009)

Well, guess the bull is staying another week.

It's 7:30 PM & _The Guy In Charge of This Mess_ made arrangements to have some guys come out to load the bull next weekend.  Ought to be interesting.  He is also picking the trailer up tomorrow morning so today has been a complete waste of my time. 

Somehow, I get the feeling that bull is not leaving here ever; or at least alive (and it's way to warm around here this week for that to happen and have good consequences). 

Thanks for all the suggestions.   I'll let you know how it turns out next week.


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## WildRoseBeef (Sep 26, 2009)

I kinda see a flaw in what that guy in charge did.

First of all, he put the trailer out in the middle of a pasture that is still green, with grass that probably tastes better than that dry hay.  So, why not herd the bull into a drylot with no grass in it, back the trailer up to the gate, put a bale of fresh green hay in, and wait for him to go in?  Isn't that a bit more easier and reasonable than just putting it out in the middle of the pasture?  Another thing that could be done is drape a bit of hay over the door ledge, then put the rest of it in the trailer.  Mind, open up the larger door so he can get in without getting stuck.

If that don't work, shoot him.  I'd hate to hear about the other guys coming out to load the bull to get themselves injured or worse, killed.  

My boss had a bull like that, only he kept going over fences all the time.  Nothing anybody could to worked to get him in a trailer, even when the cows went in before him, so he had him killed and butchered on the spot.  He got back over 1200 lbs of beef from him today, mostly hamburger.


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## siroiszoo (Sep 26, 2009)

WildRoseBeeF:  There really isn't a dry lot on this place.  It's all green pasture.  The only dry lot would be where the owner built a corral/chute which the bull tore up last weekend.  Even without horns, he can get his head under the rails and pick the whole thing up, bending and shredding the panels.

He likes his daily feed  & he likes alfalfa; both of which I've been underfeeding this week to get a little more control through his belly.  Mind you, I have tons of experience with horses and zero experience with cows.

 My idea was to park the trailer out there (but closer to the bull's favorite spot which also happens to be the place I'm feeding him).  I wanted it put out there last week so I could feed him by the trailer; hopefully graduating to putting the feed just inside the trailer to get him used to putting his head in there.  Then when he's nice and comfortable with the trailer, open a lush bale of alfalfa in the nose of the trailer to lure him all the way in.  Of course, I expected it to take days & possibly weeks to get that far.  After working with the bull today, I imagine I could have got it done this week if everyone would have cooperated with me.  I almost had his head in the trailer this evening except that he saw my husband walking over and immediately darted from the trailer.  Oh well, we will never know since the trailer is leaving tomorrow.

I'm at the mercy of _The Guy In Charge of This Mess_  This bull is smart but trainable from what I've seen so far.  Too bad it hasn't worked out better.  Actually, I wish I had money & cow sense.  I'd buy him from the owner and get him a few cows.  He always has produced nice calves.  That way, I'd have anywhere from 2 years to 7 years to get that bull loaded   (That's how long the owner will be gone & I will have use of his pasture.)

They may wind up putting him down in the field but I guess we will see next Saturday.


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## freemotion (Sep 26, 2009)

I find this thread absolutely fascinating....waiting anxiously for the next installment...


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## lilhill (Sep 27, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> I find this thread absolutely fascinating....waiting anxiously for the next installment...


Yep, me, too.  Now we have to wait a whole week to see what happens.  I'm sort of rootin' for the bull now.  Maybe we should take up a collection so siroiszoo can purchase the bull and go with her plan.


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## freemotion (Sep 27, 2009)

I would love some of that beef!!!!


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## siroiszoo (Sep 27, 2009)

lilhill said:
			
		

> freemotion said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Does that collection come with cow sense?  I'm really pretty clueless about cows - on the hoof.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 1, 2009)

I'm kinda worried about George the Bull today.  He doesn't seem himself this morning.  He came and ate as usual but he seems 'off' to me.  My husband says he's probably really depressed cause he's lonely.   If the neighbor's cows don't come up  tonight, I think I will let George spend the night with my horses.   (I've been letting my horses with him by day but bringing them in at night.)  

I know he is really hungry.  I've been feeding him the range cubes and he has plenty of grass & water.  Trying to get the Guy in Charge of This Mess to bring me some more food so I can feed him a little more.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 3, 2009)

Ok.  Today is the day.  George the bull knows it's Saturday.  He didn't eat and he's 'mooing' (for lack of a better term) alot.

We will see if the cowboy or the bull wins today.  I'll keep you posted.


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## akaRach (Oct 3, 2009)

I hope its not gonna be too traumatic...for all involved!


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## laughingllama75 (Oct 3, 2009)

Oh boy. good luck with whatever hapens!


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## Beekissed (Oct 3, 2009)

Good-bye, George!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 3, 2009)

Sorry for the suspense but it looks like the job has been passed on to another neighbor!  AAAAGGGGGHHHHH!  

Doesn't look like it will be this weekend but next.  

I'm thinking George will NEVER leave!


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## laughingllama75 (Oct 3, 2009)

Oh what the heck! I feel like it's me, waiting on one of my cattle to go. LOL. the suspense is killing me. Goes to show how dull my life is, LOL.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 3, 2009)

Translation: NO ONE wants to deal with a 2000 lb bull, but they aren't about to admit that!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 3, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> Translation: NO ONE wants to deal with a 2000 lb bull, but they aren't about to admit that!


You got that right.  I wish someone would park the correct trailer in the pasture and leave me alone for a few weeks to get the job done.  It would take a lot longer now but I think it is the only way to get that big guy to market.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 9, 2009)

Well, there was a STRONG south wind yesterday that brought a scent that drove *George the Bull* crazy, yesterday.  He jumped one fence but stayed on his owner's property.  I worked like crazy trying to keep him calm and distracted.  I was afraid he was going to keep on jumping fences until he found true love.  I called *the Guy In Charge Of This Mess* with a frantic message that something has to be done now!  He texted back (yesterday) that he had made arrangements for a *REAL COWBOY* to show up this evening.

Last night, I had to distract *George the bull* with food late into the night but he finally calmed down when the wind calmed down and was right where he belonged by morning.  Whew!  That was a close one.  *George the bull* seems pretty calm today plus *The Neighbor With Cows*'s cows are now in the pasture where *George the Bull *can keep an eye on them.

Anyway, a strong northern has blown thru this morning; cooled things WAY down but brought rain with it all day (much needed rain).   So I don't know if the *REAL COWBOY* is coming out tonight or not to round up *George the Bull*.   *The Guy In Charge Of This Mess* told me the *REAL COWBOY* was coming tonight but *The Other Neighbor*, who recommended the *REAL COWBOY*, says _maybe_ tonight, _maybe_ tomorrow.

Either way, it figures.  I haven't worked in three weeks.  I finally got some work lined up and will probably miss the whole show.  *The Other Neighbor* assures me that the *REAL COWBOY* is very experienced at this kind of work and most likely won't give up until the bull is loaded.   So we will see.  

I told *The Other Neighbor* that I had this forum going and that all of you have sent many helpful suggestions and are anxiously awaiting the results.  She said she would have the video camera out and recording.  So hopefully, I can upload it and show you all the results.

We will see.......


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## siroiszoo (Oct 9, 2009)

(If my computer is double posting again, please forgive me.  Don't know why it does that)


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## siroiszoo (Oct 10, 2009)

I'M SO DISGUSTED!!!!!  Nobody is EVER gonna show up to get that bull!!!!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 10, 2009)

That really is amazing that they haven't taken care of that bull yet. One would think they would have been willing to try different things since the normal stuff didn't work. But that is men for you! 

Hopefully they will do something soon for that poor bull. The whole thing has really gotten ridiculous (well beyond ridiculous really).


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## siroiszoo (Oct 10, 2009)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> That really is amazing that they haven't taken care of that bull yet. One would think they would have been willing to try different things since the normal stuff didn't work. But that is men for you!
> 
> Hopefully they will do something soon for that poor bull. The whole thing has really gotten ridiculous (well beyond ridiculous really).


Thank you.  My thoughts exactly.  The biggest problem is, I'm doing all the work (as far as dealing with the bull on a daily basis).  Plus I'm using the pasture for my horses which is a big pain when it comes to separating them at feed time & at night.  So really, it's no big deal to these people.  If something doesn't happen soon, I'm complaining directly to the owner in California.  But my bet is, that bull will jump the fence soon and it won't be my problem any more.  They will have to deal with it on someone elses property.   However, I hate for that to happen cause it will wind up being my expense to repair the fences if I want it done anytime soon.  But that would get them busy doing something about it.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 10, 2009)

let's think about this...
1. bull isn't bothering "anyone of importance"
2. bull isn't cost "anyone" any money
3. bull isn't breaking any law
4. bull doesn't want to leave home

So... why should anyone give a bleep about it?  It's in Texas, it's a big state. It can wait.

**Please note I am being facetious here. It's about taking responsibility, which no one apparently has, except you. I am guessign nothing will happen until something bad DOES happen. Then, heaven help them all. Please, please, do be careful around him. All he needs is a good hormonal surge and he becomes quite dangerous.


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## Beekissed (Oct 10, 2009)

I would be looking up numbers for a guy who has a backhoe rental service and getting out the guns.....and let the menfolk know you are doing it!   

OR.....you could sell this fine bull and make some money, while letting the moving of said bull become someone else's responsibility.  Make it a real deal...an offer no one can refuse!  Explain the difficulty thus far to the potential buyer...I'm sure they can come up with a creative way to remove this huge piece of hamburger from the property.  

It matters not that it is not your bull to sell.  Give the money~minus a small fee for setting up the sale~to the owner after said transaction is complete.  By not taking responsibility for the animal, they are waiving all rights to dictate the outcome, IMO.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 10, 2009)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> I would be looking up numbers for a guy who has a backhoe rental service and getting out the guns.....and let the menfolk know you are doing it!
> 
> OR.....you could sell this fine bull and make some money, while letting the moving of said bull become someone else's responsibility.  Make it a real deal...an offer no one can refuse!  Explain the difficulty thus far to the potential buyer...I'm sure they can come up with a creative way to remove this huge piece of hamburger from the property.
> 
> It matters not that it is not your bull to sell.  Give the money~minus a small fee for setting up the sale~to the owner after said transaction is complete.  By not taking responsibility for the animal, they are waiving all rights to dictate the outcome, IMO.


Yeah, but I gotta play nice or I risk losing the lease on the pasture which I desperately need.  The owner has a deal already in place with *"The Guy In Charge Of This Mess"*.  

And, while I no zero/zip about cattle, I got a bad feeling about things.  I've noticed that  fall calves are hitting the ground these past few weeks.  I'm betting it won't be long before George the Bull is off finding true love.  So I'm not sure I want to take on this mess.  Last month, I definitely would have.  I figure someone with no cow knowledge but a lot of common sense could have gotten this job done already - especially with all the help I've received from you guys.  But this month I'm thinking not so much.  The bull is becoming unpredictable.

If another strong wind blows a strong scent across the pasture like it did last Thursday, the bull will be gone and trouble will ensue.  My horses didn't even want to be left in the pasture with him last Thursday.   

I just have to make sure my horses don't go with him or get hurt by him.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 10, 2009)

So, YOU have a lease on the pasture that the bull is in? Or, you are GOING to have a lease on it?  Big difference.
If you DO have the lease currentlyand are paying $$ for the pasture WITHOUT the bull in it,  and that critter  damages or causes your horses to become damaged because the bull was not removed, I can see lawsuit.  However, if you are pasturing the horses and accepting that the bull is there, you may be losing leverage.
If you are paying right now, I'd at least threaten pulling the lease. 

If you are just waiting for the lease to come around, then patience.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 10, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> If you are just waiting for the lease to come around, then patience.


Patience on my part.  It's a lease on paper but no money will exchange hands...  Unless I don't keep the pasture up during the time the owner is away.   So I really don't have any leverage.    

The deal was that the cows would be gone (over a month ago) and I would run my horses on it.  My end is to keep the pasture clean and mowed and the fence lines in good shape.  But because of the drought we had this year, I needed to move my horses over even though the bull wasn't gone.   I just keep them off the 'leased' pasture when *The Guy In Charge Of This Mess* attempts to catch the bull.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 10, 2009)

Okay!  I am no longer a fan of George the Bull!  He chased me and won't let me have my horses back.  Somebody get the gun!


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## jhm47 (Oct 10, 2009)

Do you have snow there?  If not, I might come there and solve your bull problem.  Snowed here last night, and 4 - 8 inches more expected tomorrow and Monday.  All this after 4" of rain in the past 10 days.  Getting the pump primed for another flood in Fargo next spring.  IT IS WAAAAAY TOO EARLY FOR WINTER!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 10, 2009)

Wow!  I agree.  Way too early for winter!  Finally cooled off here (low 50's/high upper 60's) for a day or two.  It was 98 degrees with 70%+ humidity with a 'feels like' temp of 102 - 108.  Thought we were going to die last week.   Probably feel horribly humid and warm by Monday or Tuesday when this front backs up, though.  If it brings rain, at least we get the cloud cover that will keep the sun from boiling us.  But on the upside; no snow!


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 10, 2009)

So what is your liability on the lease and keeping the pasture up if the bull ruins the fences?
Is that YOUR problem because you have the lease even if it is not YOUR bull?
Is it written anywhere that the bovines will be gone?


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## siroiszoo (Oct 11, 2009)

Not sure how that will work out.  I've never seen the paperwork so my signature isn't on it.  Owner would have to dispute verbal agreement at this point.  But doubt he would go that far.

Anyway, we put a call into the owner last night.  Awaiting his solution to the problem.


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## adoptedbyachicken (Oct 11, 2009)

Call the stock yard and have them recommend someone or send someone out to get the bull.  It will cost a fee but it needs to be done.  Tell He Who Is In Charge Of This Mess that the bull has hurt one person and tried to hurt you, the waiting is over.  George has to go.

Loading a bull around here generally involves a cattle prod, a quick shock and they change their minds about not going into the trailer.  However we have the chutes and corrals to make that work.  The stockyards may well bring portable pen panels to help load him.

OR, call a hunter and a sausage maker and be done with him.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 11, 2009)

adoptedbyachicken said:
			
		

> Call the stock yard and have them recommend someone or send someone out to get the bull.  It will cost a fee but it needs to be done.  Tell He Who Is In Charge Of This Mess that the bull has hurt one person and tried to hurt you, the waiting is over.  George has to go.
> 
> Loading a bull around here generally involves a cattle prod, a quick shock and they change their minds about not going into the trailer.  However we have the chutes and corrals to make that work.  The stockyards may well bring portable pen panels to help load him.
> 
> OR, call a hunter and a sausage maker and be done with him.


I do like your idea!

I'm thinking it will have to be the hunter & sausage maker because this bull knows how to lift up portable corrals & chutes and go under them.  You should see the remains of the Owner's corral & chute area.  And if you really want to piss him off, just try using a cattle prod on him.  That's a sure fire way to get him to charge you!  As a matter of fact, he throws his body weight into the prod instead of moving away from it.

He is not stupid and gets more aggressive with those techniques.

If it had been put into my hands to deal with from the begining, I would have found skilled, capable wranglers to get the job done a month ago.  The bull is a financial loss at this point.  I say, just get the job over with.  If the Owner does put it in my hands, it would be the "bullet & sausage" routine.  

We placed a call to the Owner last night.  I don't think he is aware of the nonsense that has been going on here.  We will see.

Oh yes, and by the way,  George the bull pinned the wife of "the Guy that is in Charge of This Mess" up against the rails a few weeks back.  He knows it is a dangerous bull.  If that bull had of had his horns, she would have been hospitalized or dead.  We told her not to go into the corral with him but she did anyway.  It was her own stupid fault.  So, the guy knows this bull is dangerous.  It's just that he isn't living next door it and I am.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 11, 2009)

I sure hope you aren't paying for any pasture that this bull is in.  Going in there has to be playing with suicide if he has already pinned someone. 
So... dare we ask why the bull wasn't shot dead as he had the woman pinned?
And is the owner aware of this pinning?  I'd think his insurance agent would be climbing walls.. or canceling his insurance.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 11, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> I sure hope you aren't paying for any pasture that this bull is in.  Going in there has to be playing with suicide if he has already pinned someone.
> So... dare we ask why the bull wasn't shot dead as he had the woman pinned?
> And is the owner aware of this pinning?  I'd think his insurance agent would be climbing walls.. or canceling his insurance.


I'm betting the owner knows very little about what is going on here.  These are his 'drinking buddies' he's left in charge of this.   We are just the quiet neighbors next door who where willing to maintain his pasture in his absence in exchange for being able to graze my horses on it.  He didn't want his drinking buddies left in charge of the pasture because they would tear it up with their ATV's.

My husband called and talked to the owner last night but we are betting his friends have down played the situation since we haven't heard back from him.

My husband just mentioned that he knows the guy that the police call to round up loose cattle in this county when the owners can't be found.  At least, who he is & where he lives.   I've asked him to make contact with this man, find out his cost & how much notice it takes to get him on the job.  Then we will call the bull's owner and try to make a deal.  For some reason, the owner is determined this bull will go to market alive.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 11, 2009)

He is worth more alive at the market than dead in the field. 
However, I still wonder what his insurance company would say about it if the animal gets out.
And is the owner aware that his corral and loading chutes were trashed by said bull?


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## siroiszoo (Oct 12, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> He is worth more alive at the market than dead in the field.
> However, I still wonder what his insurance company would say about it if the animal gets out.
> And is the owner aware that his corral and loading chutes were trashed by said bull?


I'm not real sure what the owner is aware of and what he is not aware of. 

I talked to the guy at the feed store and described the situation.  He said that "if" the bull was 2,000 pounds, he would only bring about $400.00 at auction.   Then he proceeded to say it would cost anywhere from $500-$600 for men to come out and round this bull up; no guarantees & they would stop working if the bull jumped a fence and got off the property.  Also, I would have to get written permission from the owner for these guys to be on his property  and a guarantee to pay faxed in.

I asked about shooting the bull where he was and taking him to butcher.  The feed store guy said unless I could find a small "Mom & Pop" butcher that would do it, that the state is so regulated now that that is impossible.

So it is now becoming plain to see why The Guy In Charge of This Mess is procrastinating.  He no longer has any money coming out of this and its already costing him in feed.  

The Feed store guy told me the bull will definitely start wandering soon - which I already knew, just from his behavior.  The bad news is, that if let on the loose, he will eventually return to the pasture he was born in.  I had high hopes until I heard that.

The whole situation is a mess!


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 12, 2009)

I'd say the best bet is looking for a mom & pop butcher shop.  I'm srprised the feed store guy doesn't know anyone doing that.
Oh.... and he forgot the other alternatives:
$300 to rent a backhoe to dig the hole when you SSS, or...
the unholy smell of letting the beast rot where he drops. It won't reach as far as California, tho.

You have my sympathy-- which will help you about as much as the Guy InChargeOFTheMess.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 12, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> I'd say the best bet is looking for a mom & pop butcher shop.  I'm srprised the feed store guy doesn't know anyone doing that.
> Oh.... and he forgot the other alternatives:
> $300 to rent a backhoe to dig the hole when you SSS, or...
> the unholy smell of letting the beast rot where he drops. It won't reach as far as California, tho.
> ...


Thanks Imissmygirls.  

It's really frustrating having to be witness to all of this and not have any control or say in the situation.  We  keep hoping when everyone gets tired of being stupid, they just might allow us to reason with them on this matter.

It seems a waste of bull but I'm thinking the backhoe might be the way to go.  I do remember that back 6 or 7 years ago,  families that chipped in the raise a few calves were having a harder time of finding butchers.  So it may be impossible by now - at least is this part of Texas.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 12, 2009)

Have you considered reading up on How To Butcher a Bull?


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## siroiszoo (Oct 12, 2009)

OOOO!  That's not a problem.  We know how to butcher many things.  It's just that the largest bull we ever butchered was only 700#.   I can only imagine the work it'd take for this bull!  I know I don't have a grinder big enough to handle that much burger.  Plus the pesky problem of it not being my bull stands in the way.


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## Beekissed (Oct 12, 2009)

You could advertise a free bull on Craigslist!


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## jhm47 (Oct 12, 2009)

Well, I would dispute the feed store man on his price for the bull.   $400 is not nearly what a bull like that would bring.  According to the sources that I have, a 2000 lb bull should bring around .50 a lb.  That figures out to $1000.00, not $400.  $400 is only .20 a lb.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 12, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Well, I would dispute the feed store man on his price for the bull.   $400 is not nearly what a bull like that would bring.  According to the sources that I have, a 2000 lb bull should bring around .50 a lb.  That figures out to $1000.00, not $400.  $400 is only .20 a lb.


I thought that sounded low and he did figure it at .20/lb.  But I don't know and he watches the cattle auctions non-stop in that store.  So I figured he is either ripping me off cause I'm female and stupid about it or that's really what the bull would bring.   Which says a lot about who I'm buying my feed from.  Just may have to find a new feed store.

Thanks for the response on that.


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## jhm47 (Oct 12, 2009)

Actually, I looked up prices here locally, and this is what bulls are bringing at a livestock auction about 30 miles from my home.



BULLS:.............
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      PIERPONT                  1645     58.50
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      PIERPONT                  1840     58.25
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      PIERPONT                  1595     58.00
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      LANGFORD                  2345     57.50
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      PIERPONT                  1690     54.50
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      LANGFORD                  2160     54.00
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      LANGFORD                  1960     54.00
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      BROWNS VALLEY             2630     53.00
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      WILMOT                    1300     52.50
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      PIERPONT                  1250     52.00
    1 HD  BLK    BULL      LANGFORD                  2000     50.25


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## siroiszoo (Oct 12, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Actually, I looked up prices here locally, and this is what bulls are bringing at a livestock auction about 30 miles from my home.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow!  Thank You!  I'm thinking there is a greedy little man running the feed store I frequent!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 12, 2009)

*Thanks jhm47.*

I'm so tired from dealing with this I didn't think to check out the auction house that this bull is supposed to go to.  (Plus I didn't sleep last night so I'm running on fumes as they say).  Thanks jhm47.   

I think I see the problem with "The Guy In Charge Of This Mess".  From what I understand, he gets a portion, if not half, of the profit for getting the bull to market.  If it's going to cost $300 - $500 to attempt to get this bull to market.... well, I can see why he's waiting to find someone who will do it for "a 12 pack of beer & $50.00".   I say you get what you pay for - as has been the case so far.  Here is the listing from the auction he is supposed to be taken to:

FOR SATURDAY, OCTOBER 10, 2009
Volume: 1098   Total Sellers:  147  Total Buyers: 73
Trend of Market: Steady-- $ 2 Higher
WEIGHT:                   STEERS:         HEIFERS:
150-300 lbs.             .851.375     .80--1.25
300-400 lbs.             .801.325     .751.05
400-500 lbs.             .80--1.25        .75--1.02
500-600 lbs.             .771.07        .75.89
600-700 lbs.             .75.87          .70--.86
Slaughter Bulls:        .45--.575
Slaughter Cows:       .20--.475
Pairs                         N / A
Stocker Cows:          $ 400-- $ 775

FOR MORE INFORMATION CALL:
GREG GOUDEAU 936-825-6545 OR 936-661-8432
OR FOR A FREE MARKET REPORT GO TO
http://www.navasotalivestock.com


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 12, 2009)

You know those Texas gals are just clueless creatures. And we have to take care of the little ladies and keep them from getting into situations they can't handle. 


** I can't wait til you get REALLLY mad and let those cowboys have it**


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## siroiszoo (Oct 13, 2009)

Yeah, we're really tired of dealing with stupid people around here.   And what makes us even more angry is the "Guy In Charge of This Mess" hasn't been around in several weeks.   And just think!  All that time a trailer could have been parked out there with feed in it.  And I was willing to do the work for nothing just to get the bull gone.  After all, I'm the one that needs the pasture.  It would be better than doing nothing at all.

GRRRRRRRRRR!

As for the feed store guy, well..... I run into that crap all the time.  I've found it is more productive to take my business elsewhere than to get angry.  It's a waste of time on people like that.


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## Sara (Oct 14, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Well, I would dispute the feed store man on his price for the bull.   $400 is not nearly what a bull like that would bring.  According to the sources that I have, a 2000 lb bull should bring around .50 a lb.  That figures out to $1000.00, not $400.  $400 is only .20 a lb.


Totally agree.  Bulls at auction here bring a good .50 cents a pound.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 16, 2009)

Update:  "The Guy In Charge Of This Mess" stopped by late Wednesday night.  Apparently, the owner of the bull called him.   And I have now been assured that the bull WILL be gone this Saturday, one way or another.

I won't believe it until I see it.

"The Guy In Charge Of This Mess" has supposedly made contact with someone who can get the job done.  And, if not, he says he will saddle up his horse and work on it until that bull is loaded. 

These people are determined to get the bull to market.  So we will see.......


PS:  I have found a new feed store to supply my feed.  I won't be dealing with the guy who so boldly lied to me about the price that bull would bring at auction.  Too bad for him, he may not miss my money but as a pet sitter in the area many people follow my recommendations.  So when asked about feed stores, I'll recommend several.  But his won't be in the list.


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## jhm47 (Oct 16, 2009)

This oughta be a pretty good rodeo.  Wish I could be there.  Polish up your video camera and get us some good footage of the big bash.  

You really ought to let the manager of the feed store why you won't be coming back.  If I were a manager, I'd want to know.

STAY SAFE this weekend!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 16, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> This oughta be a pretty good rodeo.  Wish I could be there.  Polish up your video camera and get us some good footage of the big bash.
> 
> You really ought to let the manager of the feed store why you won't be coming back.  If I were a manager, I'd want to know.
> 
> STAY SAFE this weekend!


Thanks jhm47.    The feed store owner was the one that tried to rip me off with the bull & has a few times in the past with feed.  I wrote it off to human error at the time.  He is usually the only one in the store when I go in; a few high school students help out from time to time.  But the owner is the one that miss loads my feed.  I pay for a 12-8 pellet and he loads me with a 10-6 pellet.  The bags are identical; only the label tells the difference.  I finally started calling him on it and making him refund the difference.  I still allowed for human error until this week.   He is fully aware of his greedy attempt to rip me off over that bull and he's not so busy that he won't miss my regular visits to his store.

I'll have my camera ready and hope to get some footage of Saturday.  But I have awakened with great excitement and expectation for 3 or 4 Saturday's in a row and been sorely disappointed that no one showed up.   So I"m quite skeptical at this point.

However, the bull really, really needs to go.  We got another cool front through yesterday.  The bull was frisky and almost charged my husband last night while we were trying to get our horses back into our pasture.   Thankfully, George the bull is more focused on me and knows the name I've given him.  I was able to cause enough distraction to get the bull to stop and think about it before he charged.  That bought my husband enough time to get to safety.  That's twice now.  Don't know how much longer, "NO GEORGE!!!! NO!!! BAD BULL GEORGE!!!  NO!!!!"  is going to work.  I'm actually quite surprised that it's worked even once!!! 

Pet bulls are very, very, dangerous; at least, this one is.  I wouldn't advise it for anyone.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 16, 2009)

Please be careful with this boy. He may be responding to your femaleness as much as your kindness if he is as frustrated as you think he is.  Friends of ours could not go near their herd bull during certain times of the month. He may be paying attention in order to *protect* you from hubby.
Hormones are hormones.

 I wish you luck tomorrow.


----------



## siroiszoo (Oct 16, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> Please be careful with this boy. He may be responding to your femaleness as much as your kindness if he is as frustrated as you think he is.  Friends of ours could not go near their herd bull during certain times of the month. He may be paying attention in order to *protect* you from hubby.
> Hormones are hormones.
> 
> I wish you luck tomorrow.


Thanks, I've heard that in the past and keep it in mind.  I'm skeptical about tomorrow but am hoping SOMEONE, ANYONE, will show up for that bull!

You wouldn't believe what we just had to go through an hour ago.  Our neighbor (across the street from the bull's pasture) called and said they were moving a trailer (actually it was a cargo container) into the pasture.   I totally flipped out and my husband & I went racing over there.  The people renting the house decided they would put the container in the pasture so they could have extra storage space.   The owner of the property (and the bull) was very clear about the pasture belonging to us in his absence.   He didn't want his pasture torn up and you should see what that truck loaded with a cargo container just did!

When we got over there, the guy delivering the container was just about to dump the container where it would block the only entrance for a truck & trailer into that pasture!  Not only that, but my horses were on their way out the gate just as we arrived!   AAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!  We got to the gate just before they did.

This whole mess is such a nightmare!!

It took close to an hour to get that container off the property.  Mostly trying to negotiate with the renter on his cell phone & finally getting hold of the owner in California to settle the matter.   Meanwhile, the delivery guy is jumping up and down griping about the time that is being wasted and how he has to be on his way.   Thankfully, the owner in California, answered his phone and got the whole mess straightened out - I think.  The verdict: No container on the any part of his property.  Then a very irate delivery guy took out the front fence trying to get that whole mess back out of the property.  

If things don't get back on track soon, it may be easier and more peaceful just to find a good home for my horses and be done with the whole mess.   :-(

It may also keep me from going postal and winding up on the World News (LOL).  I'm seriously stunned at the lack of common sense in these people!

Stay tuned!  This is quite the drama show going on here........


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## freemotion (Oct 16, 2009)

Good grief!!!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 16, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Good grief!!!


EXACTLY!!!  freemotion, you've stated it all in so simple of turns; esp, the banging a head up against the wall icon.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 16, 2009)

Oprah, Dr. Phil, Judge Judy
And we wondered where they got their cases?

On the other hand, you have some great material for a best seller!

George: The True Story of  Run, Bull, Run


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## siroiszoo (Oct 17, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> Oprah, Dr. Phil, Judge Judy
> And we wondered where they got their cases?
> 
> On the other hand, you have some great material for a best seller!
> ...


ROFL!   

It's 8AM & I'm still waiting for some jughead to show up and load this bull....... probably wasting my time.


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## lilhill (Oct 17, 2009)

So are we!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 17, 2009)

Okay then.  It's 12:10 and George the Bull is up One point.   They finally got him in the corral which George mangled like a crushed soda can before departing.   The crew helping "The Guy In Charge of This Mess" has abandoned him and he is now working on plan B.  Not sure what that will be but he is still determined to get the job done.   So we will see.

So far it has been a cast direct from the Jerry Springer show so I"m no surprised.  I still have not seen a professional show up to help.

I'll update later today  I'm off to help with whatever plan B turns out to be as long as it doesn't get me killed.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 17, 2009)

Sounds like at this rate George will be there for a while. It is such a bad joke now. I don't understand how someone could let it go this long. At some point you have to bring in the pros or shoot the bull in the field. Why would it be ok to leave him out there and put people in danger. It isn't just you that could be in danger. If that bull breaks fences and gets out, he could endanger someone else as well. Obviously no one cares about your safety. It is too bad that everything is in such a mess and you can't really do anything about it.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 17, 2009)

I'm so sick of this mess.

Plan B never did work out apparently - whatever that was.  I had to leave to attend a memorial service of a friend.

Didn't get home until after dark to find that the trailer had been unhooked in the pasture about 20 yards out from the fence I usually feed the bull by.  All kinds of ropes are running from the gates, across the ground and over the fence out into the middle of my pasture.

My guess would be that I'm to endanger my life running out into the pasture to place food into the back of the trailer so that the bull can ignore the food and stomp me to death.   He is not in a good mood after today.  

What the Guy fails to understand, the bull comes running to me every time he sees me.  I wanted the trailer parked so I could get feed in it from over the fence.  It's a nice open stock trailer so I could get the job done safely if it had been placed where I wanted it.    The only way I'm going to convince that bull to eat out of the trailer is to be next to the trailer with the bull; just like when I feed him daily from over the fence.  

I don't see any good coming out of this.    And this also means I cannot put my horses on the pasture with the bull or they will get in the trailer and eat all the food.  I am totally screwed at this point.  And so angry I could spit nails.

I did find out an interesting fact this morning before I left to get ready for the memorial service I had to attend.  The Guy In Charge Of This Mess has already been paid to do this job.  The reason he's not hiring a professional is because the money is already spent and he can't afford to hire anyone.   So, I'm thinking this bull is never gonna leave.


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## freemotion (Oct 17, 2009)

Please, please, please do not go into that field again!!!   I need to combine this  with this


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## ksalvagno (Oct 17, 2009)

Wow, that is really a shame. Whoever paid him should know the full truth about this mess including your life being put in jeopardy. If the man in charge has already been paid and you have been paid nothing, it is not your problem and not your responsibility to get the bull into the trailer. The man who was paid should totally take care of the problem and do whatever HE has to do to get the job done.

I would be making some irate phone calls at this point and really make it known that this is a big problem. I would also let the owner know that if something happens to you because of the bull, you will be suing him. Maybe that will get his attention.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 17, 2009)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Wow, that is really a shame. Whoever paid him should know the full truth about this mess including your life being put in jeopardy. If the man in charge has already been paid and you have been paid nothing, it is not your problem and not your responsibility to get the bull into the trailer. The man who was paid should totally take care of the problem and do whatever HE has to do to get the job done.
> 
> I would be making some irate phone calls at this point and really make it known that this is a big problem. I would also let the owner know that if something happens to you because of the bull, you will be suing him. Maybe that will get his attention.


Can't get blood out of a turnip as the saying goes.

I won't be feeding the bull anymore.  I will just have to figure out how to manage my horses without the use of that pasture.  And, by next Saturday, if I don't see a full blown effort to get that bull in the trailer - by professionals, I will be calling the owner in California and laying every single sordid detail out on the table and see what happens next.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 17, 2009)

And you can't safely pasture your horses in there with all sorts of ropes all over the place!

Does TheManInCharge think he's going to trip the bull and tangle him in the ropes?
You really DO need to write a book on this.  Change the names of course.
Except for George's.


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## freemotion (Oct 17, 2009)

siroiszoo said:
			
		

> And, by next Saturday, if I don't see a full blown effort to get that bull in the trailer - by professionals, I will be calling the owner in California and laying every single sordid detail out on the table and see what happens next.


Why wait another week?  Call him tomorrow!  Good grazing is getting trompled!  Horses are getting weaker and thinner! 

Besides, I don't have the patience to wait another week for the next installment.....


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> siroiszoo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Trying to keep the peace.   Slept on it and I'm trying to look at the bright side of this so I don't make the situation worse by losing my temper. 

Even if we get the bull gone, I'm still going to have to deal with these people for years to come while the owner is in California working.  Granted, not as much, but the owner will still be relying on them for his interests here.  (I really thought the owner was smarter than that...)   And, these people have been the owners friends; drinking, camping, playing buddies, etc for over 8 years.  While we have just been the quiet, easy going neighbors during that time.

So it benefits me more to be patient in this matter.   It'd be one thing if money & contracts had exchanged hands but it's all been a verbal agreement.  I did ask the owner for a contract since it keeps things nice and neat for both parties but never got one.  So it really won't help to start raising a fuss.   We've already called once on the bull and once on the cargo container.    So, I can wait a little longer - as completely frustrating as that is!

 At least we have had some rain & some warm enough weather to get the grass filled back in before it cooled off.  And I did have  6 weeks to keep my horses mostly off of my pasture to help it recover some.

But believe me.  It has been a very difficult time trying to control our tempers in this mess.  I thought my husband was going to have another heart attack when he got so angry at them yesterday.   However, it would only make things more difficult for us if we took that route. 

Later when I get time, I'll take a picture of the latest arrangement that was left for me last night!  If I can get a good picture of it, it should entertain everyone.   I would have fallen on the ground laughing at the ridiculousness (if that's a word) of it but I was too shocked and mad.

Besides, we need to get a good look at things to see if we can salvage it.  Sure wish I had a truck that would haul a gooseneck.  I could at least get the trailer put in a better position for this.

Stay tuned to As The Bull Roams..........


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## freemotion (Oct 18, 2009)

As The Stomach Turns is what I was thinking....

Did I tell you that I have an old glass milk bottle that says, "Sirois Dairy" on it?  The dairy was still in operation when I was a teen in Maine, and when I bought my first house from an older widow who'd lived in it for decades, there was the milk bottle in one of the cupboards or in the cellar.  I use it now in my fridge for my goat's milk.


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## john in wa (Oct 18, 2009)

you might be better off just forgetting the idea of free pasture for your horse's and just be done with this mess.  If i was you i would just go buy some hay. call the owner of the pasture and let him know you wont be using his pasture.  I wouldent even bother the man being so far away there is nothing he can do about it. only thing he can do is call his buddys maybe loose a couple friends over the deal ect.  wash your hands of this deal you should sleep better at night. then wish old george the bull good luck lol


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> As The Stomach Turns is what I was thinking....
> 
> Did I tell you that I have an old glass milk bottle that says, "Sirois Dairy" on it?  The dairy was still in operation when I was a teen in Maine, and when I bought my first house from an older widow who'd lived in it for decades, there was the milk bottle in one of the cupboards or in the cellar.  I use it now in my fridge for my goat's milk.


Cool!  My husband's family can be traced back to New Foundland.  Could be that some of them stayed in Maine.  His grandparents and parents were in New Jersey; then jobs moved them to the Houston, TX area.  But it is a very large family and that is the only small fraction I can keep track of.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

john in wa said:
			
		

> you might be better off just forgetting the idea of free pasture for your horse's and just be done with this mess.  If i was you i would just go buy some hay. call the owner of the pasture and let him know you wont be using his pasture.  I wouldent even bother the man being so far away there is nothing he can do about it. only thing he can do is call his buddys maybe loose a couple friends over the deal ect.  wash your hands of this deal you should sleep better at night. then wish old george the bull good luck lol


Trust me, if I was in a position to forget the whole idea, I would.  My husband & I were discussing that very possibility last night.

Trust me, that pasture is not free.  There is lots of work to be done in it.  I can offer hard work & sweat, but money is short this year.  Buying hay is the whole problem that started this mess - for me, anyway.  The recession has knocked our income way down and the drought made for few bales of very high priced hay this year.  If I can even find horse quality hay, I cant afford enough of it to get my horses through winter.  

Unless another solution becomes available, I'm kinda stuck where I am.   So far, I haven't lost anything and stand to gain WHEN the bull goes.

When you look at it long term, eventually the bull WILL be gone whether by trailer or over the fence.  And 8 acres of nice grazing land will be available without the all the headaches.  And I really need a good year or two or seven to allow my pasture much needed rest.  

There is no way I'm going to endanger my life to get rid of that bull.  But I'm not going to blow the chance at 8 acres of prime grazing either.  So I'll have to adopt a sit and wait attitude.

So for now, I'm working on my level of patience and trying to accumulate as much hay as I can in the meantime - even if it is 5 or 6 bales at a time.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

You're gonna love this!

They say it's the thought that counts, right?  I guess he figured he'd rig this so I wouldn't have to go in the pasture.  

So he started by parking the trailer 20 feet from the fence I usually dump the feed over and about 50 to 60 feet from the gate I use when I have to go in that pasture.

Next he rigged it with ropes and ran them over the fence and about 100 feet into the 'safe' pasture.

Then, to guarantee I couldn't get the back doors shut should that bull by chance venture into the trailer after the aroma of stale alfalfa & range cubes, he put some weird blue piece of plastic held in place by clamps to ensure that the doors can't lock when they are shut.








I don't know.  You guys tell me.   Maybe I'm missing the point here but seriously????


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## lilhill (Oct 18, 2009)

And George is going to respect that arrangement????  I don't think so!


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## jhm47 (Oct 18, 2009)

Let's give the guy a _little_ credit for trying to make it so you don't need to go into the pasture.  At least it shows that he's trying, although not putting much thought into it.  I really doubt that he's had much experience in dealing with cattle.  

If I were you, I'd continue to feed the bull a little corn each day.  Corn is addictive to cattle, and you most likely could figure a way to get him to enter the trailer if he gets sufficiently addicted.  I wouldn't try to shut the doors the first time he goes in.  Let him come and go a few times, and start to feel comfortable in the trailer.  Then-----one day you will be able to trap him when he lets his guard down.  A bushel or two of corn isn't a large price to pay for getting the pasture to yourself, and maybe the "guy in charge" would reimburse you for it, and also your trouble.


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## laughingllama75 (Oct 18, 2009)

this whole thing is amazing (not in a good way). but, I just want to point out the painfully obvious to you......just in case you didn't hink about it (I'm sure you did!). if that bull wants to, he can so easily WALK through that fence, let alone run through if he is chasing you/anyone. please be safe! 
I still vote for the "do him in the pasture" method.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> And you can't safely pasture your horses in there with all sorts of ropes all over the place!
> 
> Does TheManInCharge think he's going to trip the bull and tangle him in the ropes?
> You really DO need to write a book on this.  Change the names of course.
> Except for George's.


Agreed


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> Let's give the guy a _little_ credit for trying to make it so you don't need to go into the pasture.  At least it shows that he's trying, although not putting much thought into it.  I really doubt that he's had much experience in dealing with cattle.
> 
> If I were you, I'd continue to feed the bull a little corn each day.  Corn is addictive to cattle, and you most likely could figure a way to get him to enter the trailer if he gets sufficiently addicted.  I wouldn't try to shut the doors the first time he goes in.  Let him come and go a few times, and start to feel comfortable in the trailer.  Then-----one day you will be able to trap him when he lets his guard down.  A bushel or two of corn isn't a large price to pay for getting the pasture to yourself, and maybe the "guy in charge" would reimburse you for it, and also your trouble.


You have a point.  I was amazed at his rigging but it did show that he didn't want me hurt.   We must give the guy credit for that.  It's the thought that counts, right?

And I like your idea jhm47.  I'm gonna go to the feed store tomorrow and see if I can get a bag of corn.  He didn't seem to like it much the first times that we gave it to him but it was old deer corn that a deer hunter had just given us.  So maybe a fresh bag will be tastier.   

We have noticed that the bull must have come up and must have eaten some of the cubes out of the back end of the trailer.  He's the only one in that pasture and half was gone this evening.  

Suffice it to say, I'm gonna follow your advice and I'll let you know what happens.  This time, I think everyone will leave me alone long enough to get it done.  I've also gone ahead and texted the owner that his guy can't load the bull and that I"m trying the food in the trailer idea.  I figured if the owner is going to protest, he needs to do it before I get more involved in this venture.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

laughingllama75 said:
			
		

> this whole thing is amazing (not in a good way). but, I just want to point out the painfully obvious to you......just in case you didn't hink about it (I'm sure you did!). if that bull wants to, he can so easily WALK through that fence, let alone run through if he is chasing you/anyone. please be safe!
> I still vote for the "do him in the pasture" method.


I know.  That's why its bent.  That's the section he jumped two weeks ago.  We called the owner about that which is why the Guy In Charge decided to come out and try to load the bull again yesterday.

However, it takes him a minute or two to get through it so it buys me a few extra seconds of running time - LOL!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> And you can't safely pasture your horses in there with all sorts of ropes all over the place!
> 
> Does TheManInCharge think he's going to trip the bull and tangle him in the ropes?
> You really DO need to write a book on this.  Change the names of course.
> Except for George's.


If I do write a book, I'll include it in my pet sitting memoirs along with the story of the rooster that used to chase the mess out of me everytime I worked there...that is until the day I impaled him on my umbrella TOTALLY by accident!  I swear.   My husband had to come help me cut him loose and that stupid bird lived.  I left a story for the owner outlining the details and I could never call his office again without his secretary laughing hysterically.  Yes, he shared the letter I wrote with the entire office and they all laughed hysterically about it.   From that time on I had to catch that stupid bird, shove it under my arm and do all the horse chores with a rooster shoved under one arm!

I'll also include the time that I went to pet sit for a miniature horse ranch.  I took photos, notes, everything to make sure I got the right horse in the right stall at night.  But the first night I showed up, it had rained all day and none - I mean NONE - of the horses matched their pictures anymore!   It took some time and lots of attention to get it right.  Most of the mares were honest about their stalls but I did have a few cheats that wanted to be in a different stall.  But I did manage to get it right before I fed them.  That owner thought it was hysterical too!  

And many, many more..... My Adventures in Pet Sitting


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## lilhill (Oct 18, 2009)

I want to reserve one of the first copies of that book!  Looks like we're going to have a wet, cold winter and I need a good book to read!  Bet it would be a best seller.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 18, 2009)

lilhill said:
			
		

> I want to reserve one of the first copies of that book!  Looks like we're going to have a wet, cold winter and I need a good book to read!  Bet it would be a best seller.


ROFL!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 19, 2009)

jhm47,  dumb question but here goes:

I have some hen scratch in the barn; just bought it.  It is a real nice bag of grain; mostly course ground corn with much less millet than the bags I've purchased in the past.    Question:  can I try tempting the bull with that until I get to the feed store?

This morning, I offered more of the old deer corn but he turned his nose up at it.   He does like his range cubes but wasn't even interested much in that after I tried the corn.  So the old alfalfa that he guy left in the trailer saved the day.  I tore off a hand full, drew the bull to the trailer where his feed bowl is, and put the rest in the feed bowl as he was happily chewing the piece of alfalfa he had torn off.  That drew him the rest of the way to the bowl and I walked off and left him to eat.  I could see from the house as he walked off (can't quite see the trailer from here but could see him walk ff).  So he ate for at least 10-15 minutes at the trailer.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 19, 2009)

Oh yes, I should report that I figured out why the bull chased me a few weeks ago.  I figured it out last night.

He was chasing the feed bucket and not me.  As long as I bring the feed bucket out and set it down after I dump it, he quits following me and stays with his feed.  Granted, he does have his moments but I"m starting to get a good read on this bulls personality.

Boy, do I feel dumb!  I was scared to death from all the stuff the guy in charge of this mess was telling me about that bull.  But I think his fear isn't based on the reality of this situation.

But never fear, I will continue to use a great deal of caution with this bull.  I sure don't want him tenderizing me for market!


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## jhm47 (Oct 19, 2009)

Yes, the chicken scratch grain should work just fine.  Is the deer corn shelled, or "on the cob"?  I have cows that won't eat moldy corn too, so the fact that he turns his nose up at the old stuff isn't surprising.  My cows will eat cob corn just fine, but if it gets moldy they won't.  It's fun to watch them pick up a whole ear and eat it like candy.  They grind up the cob and all, and the saliva flows like water.  They do the same with apples.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 19, 2009)

Oh boy!  Thanks!   I'll use the hen scratch for now.  

The old deer corn is shelled.  But if I have fresh cobs left over from dinner, I'll rinse them and offer that as a treat.  I might even try sharing an apple with him.  

Thanks jhm47!


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## jhm47 (Oct 19, 2009)

My cows don't care much for sweet corn, as strange as it might be.  They will eat it if it's allowed to mature, but won't eat it when it's soft.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 19, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> My cows don't care much for sweet corn, as strange as it might be.  They will eat it if it's allowed to mature, but won't eat it when it's soft.


No worries, then.  MY horses love my left over dinner corn cobs ;-)


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## siroiszoo (Oct 20, 2009)

ok!  you wouldn't believe how docile that bull is and how much jhm47's idea is working! 

I have let the Guy In Charge get me so cautious and afraid of that bull that I"m embarrassed.   Running the events through my mind over & over and watching the behavior of that bull has brought some enlightenment. 

So far, George LOVES the chicken scratch.  So I'm gonna go to the feed store today and see if I can find some corn for George.

We've been thinking about the events of the past 6 weeks.  That bull has never charged anyone unless they were poking him with a prod or hitting him with a stick.  The girl he penned up against the rail went in while he was stirred up by the guy in charge.  Plus she was throwing bricks at him.   I've thought about how he penned her and realize that he wasn't using his body & full force.  If he had,  she wouldn't have walked away from that and the rails would have been bent up.  He was penning her to make her stop throwing stuff at him.  And when her husband/the guy in charge FINALLY jumped in to save her by putting his body in between the bull & his wive, the bull simply walked away snorting.

Then, as I watched this past Saturday, all those men trying to corner & chase that bull, George NEVER charged a single one of them.  And when he chose to leave the corral, he chose a panel where no people were; simply going under and walking away.  I'm telling you, though, the way that corral crumbled it added to the affect of how powerful that bull is.  That combined with the effort it took for man & machine to get that panel straightened back out enough to use again....

Oh yes, and the two times the bull chased me, I was carrying the feed bucket.  The second time (this past saturday after the men had upset him) I thought he was coming after me to kill me I dropped the bucket and the bull went directly to the bucket and totally ignored me.  What an idiot I am!

All of that combined with the fact that I remember the owners standing in the middle of them and tossing feed, well.....   This guy in charge has every body way too wound up about this thing.

Well, last night my husband & I stood around the trailer until the bull was completely focused on eating before we slipped away.  We figure to be able to close George into that trailer, the bull is going to have to trust us around it at the same time he is in or around it.  Cause with this set up, there is no way we can sneak up on it.   George sees WAY TO WELL!


This morning, George made me sit with him while he ate.   We have him eating out of the back of the trailer.  I even left the bucket I carry the feed with in the trailer.  But every time I tried to walk off and go back home, George would quit eating.   So me & my dog had to stay with George until he was finished.  

I have several animals that do that; won't eat unless I sit with them.  I told my husband that I really didn't need a bull that dependent on me.

Before anyone starts yelling at me, I am still cautious around that bull.  I do realize he has his moments.  But the past two days he has been so docile it's amazing.

The sad note is this:  The Guy In Charge brought feed last night.  The owner is apparently very upset with him.  So now I have to worry about him coming in and trying it his way again which will mess up all of my work.   The Guy seems determined that he can rope that bull and drag him in the trailer. 

So you guys gotta hope I can get the job done before that maniac comes back and tries his way.


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## freemotion (Oct 20, 2009)

Well, I don't know cows but I know horses.  If you are going to trailer an inexperienced horse for the first time, you have the truck ready to roll before you get the horse into the trailer.  Then the moment the doors close, you RUN to the truck and get that trailer moving.  Then the animal is so concerned with balancing themselves in the trailer that they don't have time to fight and struggle.  At least that is the theory!  It works most of the time.

If you close the bull in the trailer and he has time to get himself worked up before someone comes to haul it away.......*shudder*.......


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## WildRoseBeef (Oct 20, 2009)

Freemotion, I think horses are a bit less stocky in terms of keeping their legs under them when the trailer is moving.  The reason being is that I've heard stories of bulls jumping out of moving trailers without getting themselves hurt much--that is, grain trucks that are converted into stock trucks to haul livestock. One instance was on a gravel road, the other on the highway.  

At least with these trailers is that they have to be secure so that the bull doesn't find his way out.  That trailer that sirios posted looked like something the bull could easily push his way out of, because the sides are not solid but barred in a way that he can try to ram his way out.

Sirios, I've been keeping up to date on this thread ever since it started and I sure hope this guy in charge doesn't mess things up too bad!  He definately needs to step back and let you try to coax George in the way that is working the best.  I do see the thoughts about the past bad behaviour of this bull--I mean, how would you like it if someone kept prodding you and throwing bricks at you, right?  You'd certainly get in a bad mood and either turn on the offendors or bust your way out.  As for the feedbucket, think of it this way: you'd be fighting to get a bunch of hungry cats off you when you got an open can of tuna in your hand!!


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 20, 2009)

So you are telling us that the owner's custom was to stand in the middle of the herd and throw food for the cattle?
OK. That does say something. They .. and George.. were used to treats from humans. Good thing!  And much better than a wild herd that needs rounding up!
It is very possible that George is missing the treats and the companionship.  Unfortunately, TheManInCharge may not know this and/or may be the type that doesn't talk to cows.  Sounds like he doesn't talk well to people either.
That, you cannot change. 
We all hope you are successful in trapping George with kindness and food.   However, let's also hope the trailer is capable of holding him, because if he panics, it won't be pretty.
And yes, bulls can get out of trailers without too much trouble! Steers too. Ask my son!


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## jhm47 (Oct 20, 2009)

It likely won't be too long till the bull enters the trailer.  He probably will spend a day or two "easing into" the trailer by first putting his front feet in.  It may take a day or two till he enters it entirely.  Is there straw, sand, or something else on the floor so it isn't too slippery?  Straw will also help to deaden the sound of his feet on the floor.  

I've had many trailers, and have hauled multitudes of cattle in them, and have never had a bull, cow, steer, heifer or calf escape from one.  Not to say it can't happen, but if the trailer is in good condition, it should hold most any cattle, including George.

When you put the grain in the trailer, be sure to keep putting it a little further ahead each day, so he will need to get a little farther in gradually till he has to enter eventually.  

Wish I could be there to help and watch the drama.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 21, 2009)

Question:

George the bull doesn't eat very much.   I've only been giving him possibly the equivalent of one small coffee can of range cubes and now, once small coffee can of the corn.  I know it is no more than that.    He likes it but never finishes it all.     Do all cows eat that little?   If so, how am I going to get that bull in that trailer?


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## laughingllama75 (Oct 21, 2009)

tust me, he can eat more than that. He is either nervous, or full on pasture. I would bet nervous with you watching him (even if he does not appear so).
I wouln't worry about the ammount he is eating, just so long as he is coming for the grain. Keep working at it...don't give up!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 21, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> It likely won't be too long till the bull enters the trailer.  He probably will spend a day or two "easing into" the trailer by first putting his front feet in.  It may take a day or two till he enters it entirely.  Is there straw, sand, or something else on the floor so it isn't too slippery?  Straw will also help to deaden the sound of his feet on the floor.
> 
> I've had many trailers, and have hauled multitudes of cattle in them, and have never had a bull, cow, steer, heifer or calf escape from one.  Not to say it can't happen, but if the trailer is in good condition, it should hold most any cattle, including George.
> 
> ...


I sure wish you were here too!  The trailer is what I would imagine a typical stock trailer floor to be - at least the older styles.  It has wooden floors with up to 1/2" gaps in between the slats and rebarb (sp?) horizontally across at about 12" intervals to prevent slipping.   I'd put something down but A) I'm so broke I'm barely making my bills, B) we don't have straw in these parts only hay which is runnin $8.50/bale last I checked and hard to find.

I went through the same routine this morning with George.  Had to lure him up to the trailer with strands of alfalfa.  Last night, we put the bowl further in the trailer and tied it off so he can't flip it out of the trailer to eat.  Now he has to stand with his feet even with the back of the trailer to stretch his neck in and eat.  But, I still have to be there - basically sitting on the edge of the back of the trailer with his head beside me.  not sure how I'm going to encourage him the rest of the way in with me in that position cause I ain't going all the way in the trailer with him in it too.  I would if there was an escape door at the front but there is only one way in or out of that trailer.   I did add a little trail of feed leading to the bowl to help encourage him.   I have lots of fresh, fragrant alfalfa nested around the back side of the bowl.  I've just never new how finicky a cow could be!  He doesn't seem to go for the alfalfa unless we are hand feeding it.

I guess P A T I E N C E!  And lots of it.  I imagine that's the only thing that is going to work.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 21, 2009)

laughingllama75 said:
			
		

> tust me, he can eat more than that. He is either nervous, or full on pasture. I would bet nervous with you watching him (even if he does not appear so).
> I wouln't worry about the ammount he is eating, just so long as he is coming for the grain. Keep working at it...don't give up!


Could be nervous but once he comes up to eat, I usually just sit there petting my Aussie and ignoring him.  I quit trying to ease away to give him room cause he quits eating and follows me.

Thanks for the encouragement!  I won't give up until I succeed or the The Guy In Charge Of This Mess comes back and messes things up.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 21, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> It is very possible that George is missing the treats and the companionship.  Unfortunately, TheManInCharge may not know this and/or may be the type that doesn't talk to cows.  Sounds like he doesn't talk well to people either.
> That, you cannot change.
> We all hope you are successful in trapping George with kindness and food.


I think this is accurate and sums up the situation, well.

Thanks for the encouragement!  I may be a cow-girl by the time all this is over with LOL!


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 21, 2009)

Do I understand that George wants you to sit on the back edge of the open door of the trailer and pet your pooch while he nibbles grain next to you?

Really?  Tell me I am mis-reading this!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 21, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> Do I understand that George wants you to sit on the back edge of the open door of the trailer and pet your pooch while he nibbles grain next to you?
> 
> Really?  Tell me I am mis-reading this!


Yep, that's how it's been working 3 mornings in a row.   The first evening, he was fine with my husband being there, but yesterday & tonight, while he will eat out of my husband's hand, he won't go near the trailer with my husband around.

Kinda frustrating but guessing I"m gonna have to do this all by myself.  It's gonna take longer too, can't get the bowl further in the trailer or George just ignores it.

And imagine, I've been terrified of this beast for 6 weeks now.  But Im still exercising caution.  Guess I could always run into the trailer for safety since George is having nothing to do with it - LOL; just kidding.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 21, 2009)

Why do I have the feeling that if the Owner was on premises, he would walk this bull into the trailer on a halter?
It's starting to sound like George has been babied and made a pet by the Owner and then abandoned to a PersonInCharge who doesn't realize this!

No normal bull wants you sitting beside him WITH A DOG while he nibbles grain.

Just another thought... do you know someone with a nice tame cow that might coax George into the trailer?  Tie the cow in the front and wait til George makes her acquaintance.

I'd really hate to see a *tame* [no such thing] bull put down  just because they were too dumb to load him.
Please.... do not trust George, but I also suspect he is too smart for the PersonInCharge and the saga isn't over yet!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 22, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> Why do I have the feeling that if the Owner was on premises, he would walk this bull into the trailer on a halter?
> It's starting to sound like George has been babied and made a pet by the Owner and then abandoned to a PersonInCharge who doesn't realize this!
> 
> No normal bull wants you sitting beside him WITH A DOG while he nibbles grain.
> ...


That's what we've been trying to get the Guy In Charge to do!  Put a cow in the front of the trailer!!!!!  But cant get him to do that either.

I don't think George has ever had a halter on him but the owner trained all his cows to come to his whistle.  So I imagine that if the owner were here, he could get the bull in the trailer.  I remember once when his cow jumped my fence and was eating my newly planted roses.  I called up hysterical and he laughed, walked out on his back porch and whistled.  That cow's head went up, she spun around, trotted back to the fence, jumped it, and trotted home.

Anyway, I think all the owner did was put them in the corral with feed, then use his dog to run them into the chute and trailer.   The cows seem to have gone in nicely but I couldn't say the last time the bull was put in a trailer.  I imagine when he was a little smaller than he is now.

Now, I can't whistle worth a toot; been trying for six weeks.  The bull is smart so I don't know if just anyone could whistle.  And quite frankly,  The Guy in Charge of this has to be within eye sight of this bull for things to start going wrong.  It's bad enough that the bull is cautious of every little change.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 22, 2009)

Okay gang, this is  as far as I've managed to get with George the Bull this week:

I put some regular coastal hay in the trailer, sat on the back of the trailer, and called George:







It's hard to get a good picture this close.  I'm sitting less than a foot away from George:






Here is a little improvement.  I'm actually able to get up and walk a little ways from the trailer without George getting nervous and walking away:






Look!  I got even farther way!





WOW!!!!  I"m thinking I should stop wasting my money and just give him what he's used to - range cubes and coastal hay!
I made all the way back to my feed room and he never stopped eating!






I did have to put the bowl & hay back to this position.  Any further in the trailer and he would just ignore it; going without.


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## ksalvagno (Oct 22, 2009)

I don't see how that trailer will hold him if you manage to get him in and there isn't a truck attached and ready to go. But that is great that you figured out what he will eat without you there. Hopefully things will keep progressing.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 22, 2009)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> I don't see how that trailer will hold him if you manage to get him in and there isn't a truck attached and ready to go. But that is great that you figured out what he will eat without you there. Hopefully things will keep progressing.


I hear you but I have to work with what I have.  The owner knows I'm trying to do this and the Guy In Charge of This Mess offers me no other solution.


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## jhm47 (Oct 22, 2009)

You're making good progress with the bull.  He will eventually lose some of his fear of going into the trailer and enter it.  Keep on with what you're doing, and you'll be successful.  Good luck, and stay safe.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 22, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> You're making good progress with the bull.  He will eventually lose some of his fear of going into the trailer and enter it.  Keep on with what you're doing, and you'll be successful.  Good luck, and stay safe.


THANK YOU!!!!


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 23, 2009)

Your  description of the owner's behavior gives us more clues!  George doesn't know what to do when he is chased!
( By the way I am SO impressed that a cow came to a whistle when she was out of the pasture.)
We had a show cow once who had been led on halter all her life. When she went to milk at a dairy farm, the farmer ( a dear friend of the family) couldn't figure out why she wouldn't move for him when he put the herd out. DUH! she was used to being led, not chased!  He worked with her a few weeks until she understood that she could go out AHEAD of him!
George hasn't clue what to do with being rounded up so he panics. A panicked bull is a dangerous beast. Once he gets to trust you, and he looks like he is getting there fast, don't be surprised if he runs to you for shelter when the bad guys show up. Don't get in the panic line!
I'd keep up the good work and see if you can coax him into the trailer.  I don't think it will hold him either, but if you can keep him calm, it might work.
Can't whistle?  Try singing. Lullabies.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 24, 2009)

Once again the Guy In Charge is testing our patience.

They were getting antsy about getting this bull to market.  Seems the owner isn't real happy with them.  So I racked my brain til I came up with a plan.  I ran it by my husband and we ironed out the kinks.  Then we ran by the Guy In Charge and thought we had it going for this weekend.  By the time 9AM rolled around and no one showed up, we started to work on things by ourselves and were quite successful.  IF ONLY WE HAD A TRUCK THAT WOULD HAUL A GOOSENECK!  We'd have that dang bull to market today!

We figured out how to make the weak section of the corral more sturdy so the bull can't lift it up.  My husband is a genius at figuring things out like that.  Thankfully, he had off today and could work with me on this problem. 

but first, he had to fix the Guy's truck that was blocking the entrance we needed to the corral.  The Guy's wife grabbed it yesterday and thought she would help.  Little did she know he had drained the transmission fluid out of it & the linkage was slipping off.  Again, my husband is very talented at a lot of things.  He was able to fix the truck and get it moved out of our way.

Next,  We backed our horse trailer in and tied the panel to our trailer.  (Our trailer hauls horses fine but is too rusty for 2,000 pounds of beef.  I think the bull would tear it up if we put him in it; plus the tires all need to be replaced.)







Next, we lured the bull with feed.  Yesterday, he showed no fear of my lawnmower & cart and chased me down as I loaded a bale of hay in the nose of the gooseneck trailer.  So we figured, why not try to lure him all the way to the corral this morning:






It worked!










George the Bull got a little upset when we closed the gate.  He tested a few spots but gave up easily enough.











So far, he's been in there 2 hours with all the food & water his little heart could desire.  Not sure how long he will stay.  I told my husband, if he got out, we'd never get him back in there.  So we can only hope that the Guy will show up and move the trailer in place today!  Just not sure we can keep him in there for a week.  That bull is smart and will figure a way out.  At least, I think he will.

Anyway, it worked out great!  No crowds, just me & my husband  working quietly.  It definitely has that bull wondering what the heck is going on.  This is way different from the Saturdays in the past.  OOOOO if ONLY we could move that dang trailer!

Stay Tuned to as the Bull Roams........


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 24, 2009)

You go girl!!
My next suggestion is to find a really good book and go sit and keep him company for a while (outside the fence).  George may get bored easily and you know he loves you.
And don't let George know you are REALLY steaming about TheGuy. He'll pick up on your vibes.


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## freemotion (Oct 24, 2009)

Holy Cow, (pun intended  ) he is GI-NORMOUS!

And I see why you want that pasture....


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## siroiszoo (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks everyone!  I appreciate all the help & encouragement.

Well,  FINALLY got the guy in charge to show up and move the trailer for me.  It took calling his wife & the owner to get him to 'materialize' real quick and in a hurry.  I also had a client on the phone that I will have to trade out pet sitting for in exchange for his help if needed.

Anyway, George the bull is still pouting but still in the corral.  We did notice, from across the street, that he walked up and stuck his head in to check things out.  But that is as far as he's gotten.  He pouts in the corner fartherest (?) away from the trailer.   Guess after a couple of tries, he figured he couldn't move my old trailer much.  So that route of escape is off.  We got the guy to move his old red dodge in next to my old trailer for reinforcement.

It's 5:30 PM.  George has had 4 hours to think about his food & water being inside that trailer he will be hauled in.  I bet he will go tonight, after everyone is asleep.  He will either learn to be happy with the new situation or break out.  At which case, we have the owner's permission to call in cowboys if this fails.  

So at this point, it seems like one way or the other, George will be gone.  It's just a matter of when & how.

Stayed tuned for more As The Bull Roams.......


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## Wolf-Kim (Oct 24, 2009)

Just wait him out. His stomache will overcome his fear and he'll get in. 

We recently trained our 4 year old quarter horse to load into the trailer. I expected a huge scene of struggle and whatnot, but he walked right in like he did it every day of his life. Helped I had his grain bucket. LOL


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## siroiszoo (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks Wolf-Kim.  As long as he doesn't find a new exit route we will be okay. 

So far, he's still pouting about the whole thing in his favorite escape corner which is now blocked by a trailer & a truck.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 25, 2009)

Good news.  We are making progress.  

A) George the Bull is still in his pen!  YAY!

B) He went in the trailer last night; ate most of his feed & hay and drank 1/2 of the water.

This morning I went down to feed & water.  He is much calmer but very cautious - just like last week when I started feeding him at the back of the trailer.

I brought my horses in for a little grain and could see him stick his head in the trailer and sniffed while I was in my pasture with my horses.  But he must have seen me and walked away.  He should be happy, my miniature horses are hanging out around his pen.  So at least he has company.

If I can keep him where he is - in the pen - I'll be willing to give it one more week to get him good & comfortable with the new arrangement.  Hopefully, we can get him safely to market by Friday.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 25, 2009)

YAAAAAH!
Now I'm starting to feel sorry for poor George. He's such a nice guy; misunderstood; lonely.
And you are sending him to market.


Ok... smack me.


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## jhm47 (Oct 25, 2009)

OKAY, you've succeeded in getting him to enter the trailer.  Now you should remove the feed and water from the trailer and leave him alone for 24 hours.  Then, put feed and water in the trailer and be prepared to shut the doors.  He may not go in at first while you are there, but eventually he will go in.  Just be patient.  Good luck, and BE SAFE!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 25, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> YAAAAAH!
> Now I'm starting to feel sorry for poor George. He's such a nice guy; misunderstood; lonely.
> And you are sending him to market.
> 
> ...


You and me both, friend.  I'm having feelings of guilt too.  I know I'm gonna miss him.  Wish I had money and a bit of cow sense.  I'd buy him some cows and keep him around.  But, I can barely afford what I have.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 25, 2009)

jhm47 said:
			
		

> OKAY, you've succeeded in getting him to enter the trailer.  Now you should remove the feed and water from the trailer and leave him alone for 24 hours.  Then, put feed and water in the trailer and be prepared to shut the doors.  He may not go in at first while you are there, but eventually he will go in.  Just be patient.  Good luck, and BE SAFE!


Oh, Okay.  I was doing like I did last week but keeping the feed, hay, & water up in the nose of the trailer.  He still stands as far away from it as he possibly can - at least by daylight.

But I"m willing to do it your way.  Thanks!


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## 2468herdsrgr8 (Oct 26, 2009)




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## siroiszoo (Oct 26, 2009)

jhm47:

We had a weather front move through that has caused a rain event all day.  I was going to remove all food & water today.  I had to get hold of the stock yards to make sure I could deliver that bull any day of the week before I got him locked in the trailer.  They said I could but now I can't be sure that I will be able to get the stupid trailer out with all this rain.  I even got a friend that will drop what he is doing and come haul that bull for us if the Guy won't show up when we need him.

What would you do at this point?  

I haven't been able to get down to see if the bull went back in the trailer for food & water last night.  I imagine he did but as of 5PM yesterday, he hadn't.   I don't see him roaming the pasture so I have to assume he is still in the corral.   I'm not sure how badly this rain will mess up my plans.



OH NO!  The news just reported that this rain will last all day and over night!  Then, Thursday & Friday are listed at 60% chance on each of those days!    AAAAGGGGHHHH!


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## siroiszoo (Oct 26, 2009)

Man, I'm just sick of this. 

We just got back from checking on the bull.  He is still in the pen but hasn't been back into the trailer since Saturday night.

And, while the ground is nice and firm around the trailer & corral area, it's soft around the only gate out of the place cause the owner chose to put his hay rounds in that spot when he fed his cattle.  So there are 7 years of soft, soggy hay build up in the area we need to swing a truck & trailer through to get a straight shot at the gate.

I feel the agony of defeat luring around the corner


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## jhm47 (Oct 26, 2009)

Just be calm.  Feed the bull about half of the hay and grain that you were feeding him.  At this stage, you want to keep him hungry so he continues to enter the trailer.  You might need to put some hay and grain near the door so he is tempted a bit, but only enough to get him interested.  You want him to have to go all the way in.  Don't worry about getting in a hurry about getting the trailer out of the area.  As long as the bull is getting something to eat and drink, he will probably not try to escape.  Be patient, this thing will end soon.  As you have seen, sometimes slower is faster, better and more successful.

As to rain/snow, we've had about 8" of precipitation here in the past weeks.  Lots of crops in the fields yet, and no way to harvest them.  Looks like we're getting set up for another flood in Fargo next spring.  Hope I'm wrong about that.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 27, 2009)

Poor George is dropping weight like crazy in that corral.  (Wonder if I could lock myself in there for a few days and drop that kind of weight :/)

Anyway, he is lonely & hungry.  We checked on him but didn't add to his foo last night.  We went down this morning and made another little trail of hay & feed leading into the nose of the trailer; tossed out all the old wet stuff in the burn barrel.  George tried to put one foot in the trailer but became reluctant.

Our theory on that is the trailer is too unstable without a truck hooked to it.  All the movement & noise makes George not want to go in.  Probably scared himself to death the first time he went in and remembers.  All the rain left puddles so I doubt water is much of a valuable tool for us now since he can drink from the puddles.

Good News - at least, it would seem that way at the moment:

The owner has put us in charge of this now.  My husband is calling the sheriff's department to see if we can find someone to come out and drive George  the rest of the way in the trailer.  I'm thinking it's not the best idea but the rain isn't leaving us much choice.  We got over 2" yesterday and more is on the way Thurs/Fri.   That coupled with the fact my husband sees that I'm getting attached to the bull, well....  He wants it gone before I do something crazy - like keep it or something.  

And since we are dealing with a trailer in which the only entrance and exit is at the back of it, I make him go with me in case I get in there with the feed, and the bull decides to come in with me.  The bars are so close together, I can't work through the railings like I had hoped to do.  I do think I could just calmly slip past George if that happened but don't want to take that chance.  And worse case scenario, someone has to shoot the bull & call 911 if things go badly.

So, either George will leave within the next 24/48 hours, or we will be working with him for another week or more - depending on the rain patterns.  I just cringe at it all.  Every time we fail, we are set back an entire week before we can build trust again.  So it's gotta work this time!

As for jhm47, I do not envy you with 8"+.   If you can't get the crops out of the fields, it will be bad for all; from the farmer to the consumer.  Plus, floods are no fun.  We go through them annually, at the very least, living in the coastal plains of the Gulf.  If it's not rain patterns training over us, then it's hurricanes.  Although the new drought patterns creeping in and lasting longer & longer each year is a new twist.  That's what wiped me out this year; the drought (and the economy).


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## siroiszoo (Oct 27, 2009)

It's written in stone - so to say.

Arrangements have been made to move George, rain or shine, Friday at 8AM.  A man who has worked cattle his whole life  will be here to load George.  He is also the man that the Sheriff calls when cows are out on the road in this county.  My husband used to know his parents a long time ago.  We tried to find him a few weeks back but he isn't listed.  So my husband called the Sheriff's department and got his number.  The Guy in Charge of this Mess is supposed to be here Friday morning to haul the bull.    We will see what happens.


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## laughingllama75 (Oct 27, 2009)

I will keep my fingers crossed. Sounds like the real help will be there, and you will get it done. I am sory you have invested so much time and head/heartache on an animal that is going to the market. I know you wish he was there to stay.....one way or the other. BUT, bulls are no fun as pets and you are better off for it. Does that make you feel better? no, but in time, it will. hugs to you, and I will be waiting for Fridays update.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 27, 2009)

Thank you laughingllama75.  I appreciate.  That's what I keep telling myself.  Too bad George isn't a Georgette.  I'd keep her.


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 27, 2009)

AS much as we have ALL grown fond of George, as my dad used to say:  you can't run the business on sympathy.
We hope you can safely load him and give him some dignity on his last trip.
So far as bulls go, he's had a good life.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 27, 2009)

That makes perfect sense Imissmygirls.

Thank You.


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## laughingllama75 (Oct 27, 2009)

Imissmygirls said:
			
		

> you can't run the business on sympathy.


Hey, what a great saying! thanks for sharing.


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## siroiszoo (Oct 29, 2009)

SCREAM!!!    (That's a happy scream of anticipation)

I was so worried about the rain.  Been telling everyone that while we may get that bull loaded tomorrow, the rain won't let us get the rig out of the pasture.  Kept falling on deaf ears.

Today, the guy that's gonna load the bull called and wants to do it now.  I called my friend that has to do the hauling and he can be here by 1PM.  We called the stockyards and gave them a heads up to help get the bull unloaded.  And the owner has given us approval for it all.  And while the guy in charge of this mess wanted to be here, there is no way he can get off work and out here in time.  So maybe, just maybe we can get this thing accomplished today.  I know we never would have gotten that bull corralled so easily with the guy here.  So maybe he will go on the trailer just as easy.   Well, one can hope....


  SCREAM!!!!    I can't wait!!!!!  I'll let you know how it turns out.


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## laughingllama75 (Oct 29, 2009)




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## ksalvagno (Oct 29, 2009)

I sure hope everything goes well for you. Sounds like the right people are there to take care of things. Good luck.


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## Bil (Oct 29, 2009)

WOW, I just read the entire saga.  I guess I'm coming in at a good time.

GOOD LUCK!!!

Bil


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 29, 2009)

*** waiting patiently***


argh.. NOT.
I wanna be in Texas


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## siroiszoo (Oct 29, 2009)

YAY!!!!! 

We did it!!!!!!!!!  I swear, this guy we called out is a real life cow whisperer!!!!!

He showed up, looked at the situation.  Commented on how there was no way that corral would hold a horse, much less a bull.  We agreed and explained that it was only an optical illusion to George and as soon as he figured that out he'd be gone.

Then while we were across the street trying to find the keys to a truck that would move the stock trailer out of the way.....   The Cow Whisperer wanted his trailer there because there is a winch built inside that he would use if necessary.....

Anyway, we were across the street for about 10 minutes looking for the keys that were SUPPOSED to be with the truck and werent'.  We heard the Cow Whisperer calling us.  We went back over and George was quietly chomping his hay inside the trailer and the back doors were closed.  WOOOOWWWWW!!!!  No prods, no tools, no horse, no dog.  Just a man and a bull.

I'm SO HAPPY!  I knew he'd go gentle with the right person!

You can see for yourself how quietly he traveled the 30 miles to the stockyards:



























We're here! 






George stayed so amazingly calm:






I missed this shot because everyone at the stockyard was laughing at me for taking pictures.  But I told them there were people who would never believe the bull was gone nor that he went so quietly.  But George never got excited.  Just stepped off the trailer and walked down the shoot like he knew exactly what to do and where to go.  (sob)





And this is me thanking everyone for all of the suggestions & support!   THANK YOU!!!!!


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## ksalvagno (Oct 29, 2009)

I'm glad there was a good ending to all of this. It is too bad that this guy wasn't hired in the first place!


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## Imissmygirls (Oct 29, 2009)

YAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!!
now you HAVE to write the book! It has a happy ending!
You finally got a cowboy that really knew cows. Great to know they still exist.  
I do hope the Guy Who Thought He Was In Charge And Wasn't will hear of this and feel dang embarrassed-- although he won't.
And don't worry about they guys laughing at you at the stockyard. They do that all over.


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## lilhill (Oct 29, 2009)

Bye, bye, George.  Congratulations for a job well done, siroiszoo.


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## freemotion (Oct 29, 2009)

Now your horses can get fat!  Bye, George!  He had a good life!


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## Bil (Oct 29, 2009)

Well how cool is that?!  

Congratulations!

Bil


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## amysflock (Oct 31, 2009)

My goodness, that is the coolest thing! Congratulations on getting that big ol' problem out of your life! He was a giant!!


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## Beekissed (Oct 31, 2009)

Did the cow whisperer ever tell just how he did it?


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## siroiszoo (Oct 31, 2009)

Beekissed said:
			
		

> Did the cow whisperer ever tell just how he did it?


He wouldn't brag on himself.  He just said that he untied the gates so he could close them, got behind the bull and asked him to go in.

I think that when the cow whisperer entered into the corral with nobody else around the bull knew that someone had finally arrived with cow sense.

Face it, the repair dude (the guy in charge), the carpet cleaner (the neighbor across the street), the carpenter (my husband), and the pet sitter (me) just didn't know how to explain it correctly to the bull.

When the cow whisperer arrived he said, "Bull, we need you in that trailer."  

Bull:  "What?  In that trailer over there?"

Cow Whisperer:  "Yes, that trailer over there."

Bull:  "Oh.  Why didn't someone say so?"

Cow Whisperer:  "Well now bull, they were trying to tell you that.  Now quit messin around and get on in that trailer."  

Bull:  "OK"

[bull enter's trailer and happily munches on his hay]

[cow whisperer thinks two thoughts:  1)  What a bunch of idiots!; and 2)  That's the easiest $120.00 I ever earned!   and possibly "Thank God for idiots - LOL"]

The carpenter & the pet sitter show up and think: 1) We knew that bull would load easy with someone who knew what they were doing!  and 2)  Boy what a bunch of idiots we are!

But seriously,  I had a cutting horse with top bloodlines.  I did all the training on him.  Rode him every day for 5 years.  That sucker would give me 'what for' on most days so I decided to sell him.  "Trainers" poured out of the woodwork for this horse because of his bloodlines.  However, most of them were "backyard trainers" and looked like city slickers on him.  Even after I explained the cues he was trained with, they'd look like they'd never ridden before.  That horse was giving them MORE 'what for' than he had ever given me.  But I tell you this.  Out of all those people, 3 were REAL trainers; real horsemen/horsewomen.   I literally cried when I saw how he melted under them and performed flawlessly for them.  I even felt more proud when they complimented me on my training.  I'm not a professional; just do it for a hobby and to be around horses.   I KNEW I had put the training into him but could never get him to perform like that with me every time.  Point is, that horse FELT the difference the minute they entered into his space and he just went with the flow.  Sad news is that they didn't buy him cause he was 'over in the knee' and they were concerned about joint problems down the road....

Anyway, when that cow whisperer walked into that corral, the bull knew AND felt comfortable with him.  So, he just did what the guy wanted him to.  

I am constantly amazed by the ability & intelligence of animals!


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## lilhill (Nov 1, 2009)

Loved this whole saga.  I know it was so frustrating for you, but what a great story.  Can't wait to read about your next one.


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## 2468herdsrgr8 (Nov 1, 2009)

Thank you for the photo's !

Your a good person ....


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## Slightly Cracked (Nov 2, 2009)

I have been keeping up with this saga too and I am so happy that it had a successful out come! 

 Now your horses can munch in peace and get plump through the winter.


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## Imissmygirls (Nov 2, 2009)

Managing cows is almost like managing people. There are times to be quiet and times to yell.  I'll bet your cow whisperer  knows when to do both!

Note: FYI, generally the time to yell is when they are too busy doing what they shouldn't be doing to pay attention to what you are about to quietly tell them.... no wait, that's my kids.

RIP George. You did good


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## siroiszoo (Nov 3, 2009)

Hay everyone!   

It turns out that George weighed 1,920 pounds by the time he got to auction and made the owner $1113.60 (minus auction fees).

not bad George, not bad.......


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## jhm47 (Nov 3, 2009)

If I recall correctly, the guy at the feed store said he was only worth $400.


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## kapfarm (Nov 3, 2009)

You ever read "hank the cowdog?" tie a rope around your dog and dangle him in the stock trailer. pull him out as soon as the ticked off bull gets in and shut the door.(the dog has to make the bull mad first!)


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## laughingllama75 (Nov 4, 2009)

Yay! finally, I just caught up.......thanks so much for the pics, he looked like a pro up on that trailer! Like he had done it 100 times.
I bet your horses are happy to have the pasture all to themselves now, that is awesome (and the fact you can tend to them without being worried about a bull!).
I am going to miss this little saga, it was an interesting one.


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## Beekissed (Nov 4, 2009)

Good-bye, George!   

    I think you should get a cut of that money for all your troubles!!!


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## ducks4you (Nov 5, 2009)

Hope you horses were watching  this show and understood that THEY needed to load well,  OR  ELSE!


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## siroiszoo (Nov 5, 2009)

ducks4you said:
			
		

> Hope you horses were watching  this show and understood that THEY needed to load well,  OR  ELSE!


LOL!!!  

My horses are trained from babies to load & unload.  I just have to throw the lead over the back and point inside the trailer and on they go.  No fuss, no muss.   

After this experience, I'm sure that if I ever owned cattle I'd do the same with them - hahaha


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## LlanoLonghorn (Jul 20, 2010)

What a wonderful post, I laughed until my side hurt. Very well written and since I just went thou a similar experience I can relate. I had two 800 lb steers to load without a chute. It took me a few hours but mission accomplished. Thanks again for sharing your Bull Story.


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## amysflock (Jul 20, 2010)

I can't imagine having to deal with a bull as unruly as the one in the original post! Yikes.

Our Highland "kids" are such suckers for a little bit of grain in a bucket. We sold our long yearling bull to another breeder who doesn't intend to show or lead him (although this was a show-trained, ribbon-winning youngster), who is so thrilled that he got T-Bone to load with a little bit of grain. I laughed...there's no way we could avoid getting any of our Highlands to load with grain present! I can actually rattle any bucket, with or without something in it, and I get their rapt attention.


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