# Advice on getting Started with Cattle



## CntryBoy777 (Apr 16, 2017)

I am seriously considering adding some cattle here on the 20acres and I have never had them before. There are no definite plans of aquiring them at this time, but I wish to be prepared ahead of time with proper fencing, grazing pasture, and other dedicated areas that may be needed. Are there strict laws that govern their handling, tests, vacinations, or such? If you were to start out again, knowing what ya do now, what would you do differently to make it better from the start?
I have a connection to some shorthorn that are raised for 4H Shows. Would they be good to start with? The main purpose would be for meat, and to sell. Thanks for any assistance ya are willing to give me on this.


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## frustratedearthmother (Apr 16, 2017)

Wow - that would be quite a jump from itty bitty goats to great big cows!  Wish I had some advice for you - but I'm not fond of cattle  unless they are on my plate! But, I do wish you well if that's what you decide to do.     I'm sure you can get lots of good info here!


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 16, 2017)

Oh, @frustratedearthmother , I will be expanding the goats never fear about that...but, with as much area as we have in fields a little help with the grass would be appreciated and have had some interest from others about raising some for slaughter. I like variety and options when it comes to that "Plate" thing....


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## frustratedearthmother (Apr 16, 2017)

You have a lot of area and a lot of grass so it makes perfect sense!


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## Baymule (Apr 16, 2017)

Who are the others and how much interest do they have? A couple of feeder steers could be a good idea. You have good grass but would have to divide it up so you could rotate pastures. Are these "others" interested enough to help you cross fence? You would need to feed hay in the winter. Is there a hay farmer that lives nearby? And would he store your round bales of hay and deliver it one at a time, as needed? If not, do you have a pick up truck to go get a round bale in? If not, do any of the "others" have a truck and would they spend their time and gas money picking up round bales for the steers? You could feed square bales, but that is a lot more work, you have to haul them from the field, stack in the barn, then get them down one at a time and lug them out to the cattle. Would any of the "interested others? come help do all that?

Do you have a loading chute? One could be made with cow panels. Do you have a stock trailer or know some one you could borrow one from? If you have a bad couple of days and can't get up and around, would one of the "others" come feed and care for the steers?

If you  have a connection to shorthorns that are raised for 4H, would you be buying one that didn't make the cut for a show steer? Then have it vaccinated when you buy it. The strict laws are more on the slaughter side of the issue. If you sell a steer, it is theirs and it can be taken to a custom slaughter house for processing. A custom slaughter house is not USDA inspected. If you have the animal slaughtered and sell cuts, then you must take it to a USDA slaughter house. If you are raising steers on a buddy system, where the "Interested others" already own their steer and ya'll are splitting the cost of feed, then you can take them to a custom slaughter house and each person pays for their own slaughter, cut and wrap charges. We did that last year with pigs. It worked out good for all of us. @Devonviolet got in on that deal and she and her DH butchered their own pig. They did a kill and chill at the custom slaughter house we took the pigs to. We raised 3 pigs and we split the cost of raising them with Devonviolet, our neighbor and ourselves. Everybody was happy.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 16, 2017)

The simple and quick answer to your questions Bay is, yes. The stock would come from the "Show Culls" and the others includes family, ours and the neighbors. There is plenty of hay available here for $25-35/roll. We are looking to get a pickup, but neighbor has 2 and a tractor. I was thinking about getting a roll hauler to pull with truck to get a roll here when needed. My intentions are to try some steers first before committing to them yr round, because of the unknowns of tending to them. We haven't worked everything out just yet, but I'm trying to find out about it before just jumping in. This also includes some pigs. Yes, when all of this came up, many of ya here sure was in my thoughts when it was being discussed. I knew I had really good mentors to draw from and all seem to be overly supportive....okay "Enablers"....and I have time and space, so why not have fun, fill freezers, and cut back on the mowing?
I've always said that land should be used to produce, so it is high time this property start doing some. Heck, if I can find a market here for sheep, I'll be getting some of those too.


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## Baymule (Apr 16, 2017)

We currently have 4 pigs........LOL The buddy system is alive and well. We have a great community and we help one another. You might want to start with a few feeder pigs on the buddy system. When you haul them to slaughter and everyone is still friends, then step it up to a few steers. Go slow to start with so you don't overload yourself.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 16, 2017)

The neighbor's cousin has 54 head, so he'd be available to assist with problems. So far, it appears that we could be up to 4 steers to start with....but, I also know that others are just great with the idea, but when cones to putting the $$ down and out they tend to "Crawfish". If this does come about, I want to be already prepared, so it will be around a yr from now before the animals will be gotten. Trying to find some LaManchas right now, tho.


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## Baymule (Apr 16, 2017)

That's what I'm talking about......Money talks and Bullshirt walks. So put up or get ta' steppin'. You would have to get the animal paid for _up front_ or else........no pay-no play.

Edited to add: we haven't had that crawfish problem here when it comes to paying for a pig or feed costs. Our buddy system is the best!


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 16, 2017)

I'm also interested in the possibility of keeping a few cows for several reasons, but I've always grown up around them, but never had any of my own. Tho, both sides of the family have a long history of raising them. I don't believe that I'd ever have a bull, but having calves could be productive to some degree, and if something does happen to me, Joyce will always have the option of liquidating to put some $$ in her hand. Do you know if shorthorn are tasty and good meat stock?


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## Baymule (Apr 16, 2017)

I've had cows, but I no longer want to mess with an animal that big, plus 8 acres just isn't enough land for cows. Never raised shorthorns. I guess you can find out by feeding out some steers. Let us know how the steaks are!

Instead of keeping cows, you might be better off by raising steers for slaughter. Especially if you can get a good deal buying 4H rejects. Carry a batch off to slaughter, then bring in a new batch of steers.


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## Pastor Dave (Apr 17, 2017)

CB, I'll be asking same things down the road, so once you get going...


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## greybeard (Apr 17, 2017)

> Instead of keeping cows, you might be better off by raising steers for slaughter



I agree. Start with a couple of steers. 2 that have been handled and definitely not culled because of docility issues. (aggression--It sometimes happens even with steers)
I've never raised any Shorthorn but it is a good choice from what I've seen of them as long as you select 2 that are on the beef side of the spectrum (today's shorthorns are a dual purpose breed for the most part--dairy and beef). I do raise Beefmasters, which are all 3/8 shorthorn)
While you're getting set up for this, Keep some things in mind. Goal!! To deliver a healthy high quality  FINISHED carcass to your customer and to yourself. That's all you should be concerned with--period. I've read enough posts here at BYH to know too many people tend to fall into the "Oh he's so cute!" trap and choose animals based too much on that part of phenotype.  You won't be eating the hide and pretty means nothing once the head and hide are on the processor's floor.

You aren't going to be a breeder, or a seedstock producer, or in a cow/calf operation--you are going to be a beef PRODUCER! Don't lose sight of that.
Raise and deliver a good product and it will sell itself.
 Learn as much as you can in the interim about physical trait selection in regards to overall gain, daily rate of gain, yield and grade.
You want plenty of hindquarter, good length and thickness of the body. Don't select and try to feed a dink with bad genetics into a quality finished product.  Grinders are a dime a dozen.
Learn what a balanced beef breed grower ration is and what a finish ration is and how to tell when the steer is finished and ready for the processor. 

You can easily haul a big roundbale in the back of a F-150 or 1500 pickup--just have them place the bale in the bed so you can roll it out--I've done it lots of times in a base fleet version Silverado. You'll want to get 1 round bale feeder to minimize waste.

Rules and regulations. Not many, except for withdrawal periods on some medications prior to slaughter. Do NOT cheat on that part of it. Instructions are on the medications--follow them. I know some people don't follow the withdrawal period instructions, but that hurts all of us.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 17, 2017)

That is definitely what my focus is and I would like to improve the quality of the grass in the pasture so that the quality of the meat produced, is the best it can be without sending me to the poorhouse. Though, it isn't my intentions to skimp on quality feed. I have a bunch to learn in a fairly short period of time, but if it is worth doing...it is worth doing right. Are there any websites that would be good to start with, so I don't waste time sorting thru them all?


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## Bossroo (Apr 17, 2017)

CntryBoy777 said:


> That is definitely what my focus is and I would like to improve the quality of the grass in the pasture so that the quality of the meat produced, is the best it can be without sending me to the poorhouse. Though, it isn't my intentions to skimp on quality feed. I have a bunch to learn in a fairly short period of time, but if it is worth doing...it is worth doing right. Are there any websites that would be good to start with, so I don't waste time sorting thru them all?


Since you have good pasture grasses, at least I hope you have good production grasses that yield quality TDN. Consult with your County  and or your nearest Land Grant University Range Management People .  Feed them grains as well as other supplements as well as necessary medications to produce USDA Choice carcasses.  Good luck !


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## Latestarter (Apr 17, 2017)

Great thread start Cntryboy! Reading and following for my own personal benefit as well.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 17, 2017)

I did run by the extension office today and picked up a soil sample box to send in soil to be analyzed...it will cost $8 and take 2-3wks. The receptionist was cordial and helpful, but if the other lady in the office was an agent, then I'm not very impressed....she acted like she never raised an animal and was very unfriendly to say the least. I did think of my Mom, tho....she would've asked her if someone "Starched your Drawers"?.....
So, we'll see just what there is to work with out there. It is raining right now, so looks like tomorrow before I will be able to get 15 Tblsp of soil for the test.


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## cjc (Apr 17, 2017)

20 acres and no cows? What took you so long 

I agree with @greybeard because I am one of those suckers he mentions that gets the cute ones and earns no money . We always have a few shorthorns in our herd. We sent the first one to slaughter last season and it was a great success in terms of quality. They also grow a lot bigger and faster than my Angus and they have a much better temperament. I bred a jersey/red angus to a shorthorn bull and her calf is 8 months old and already bigger than her. Beautiful looking calf.

We deal with a lot of rain here so we have to keep our round bales under cover and in a feeder. We couldn't drag ours like suggested we do need a tractor. Our cows are fine on pasture alone from May-October. We feed round bales the other months and I do feed grain all year round.

If you are just raising a few steer then you shouldn't need much in terms of handling equipment but we found pretty quickly we needed a cattle squeeze. We have to deworm our herd every year, it is very wet and can get decently hot where we are and mange and such is a real concern.

I don't know the laws where you are but where I am all livestock must have access to a shelter and water bucket.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 17, 2017)

Thanks! @cjc 
We just received freedom with the land 2yrs ago, and have been working with getting some things situated. We really weren't planning on this being the next "Step", but mowing 4 fields gets to be a bit time consuming. Not to mention some meat in the freezers surely wouldn't hurt at all.
This just sorta "Mushroomed" on me pretty quickly, so we are trying to take advantage of an opportunity that has presented itself to us. We also have a pond on the property, so water shouldn't be a major issue, just fencing it off may be a bit of a challenge, but doable. It could be accessed from either field if rotational grazing is used, too.


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## cjc (Apr 17, 2017)

CntryBoy777 said:


> Thanks! @cjc
> We just received freedom with the land 2yrs ago, and have been working with getting some things situated. We really weren't planning on this being the next "Step", but mowing 4 fields gets to be a bit time consuming. Not to mention some meat in the freezers surely wouldn't hurt at all.
> This just sorta "Mushroomed" on me pretty quickly, so we are trying to take advantage of an opportunity that has presented itself to us. We also have a pond on the property, so water shouldn't be a major issue, just fencing it off may be a bit of a challenge, but doable. It could be accessed from either field if rotational grazing is used, too.



Fencing can be a very big expense. We have a 6 acre property I just fenced off for cattle. I am going to move some of my girls out there to graze for the summer, cost me a fortune. I did 5 strand barbwire with fairly big posts for 5 acres. I just find if I use anything less than that they end up on the other side of the barbwire. The other acre I did in 4 board fencing with a lot of gates. You can never have enough gates and added two small pens in 4 board to gather them in.


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## Baymule (Apr 18, 2017)

Do be aware that snails love ponds also and are a carrier for liver flukes. Wet areas are prime for liver flukes. If it is safe for your ducks to free range, they will eat the snails.

http://www.beefmagazine.com/health/liver-flukes-expand-range-26-states

http://www.thecattlesite.com/diseaseinfo/182/liver-fluke/


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## greybeard (Apr 18, 2017)

cjc said:


> You can never have enough gates and added two small pens in 4 board to gather them in.



Just off the top of my head, I have over 25 gates on my place...


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## Mike CHS (Apr 18, 2017)

I have no idea what we will wind up with but we have 6 gates in a 54 1/2 acre paddock (plus two subdivision gates).  Our 1 1/2 acre dry lot has 4 gates plus two internally in the shelters.

My excuse is I worked for a government engineering command for too long.


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## Baymule (Apr 18, 2017)

8 acres, 9 gates, 3 temporary wire gaps, when we finish the fencing, we'll add 2 more gates.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 19, 2017)

I am understanding much better about having gates, and the placement of them with the fencing that is being done now for goats. Also, having a bum leg doesn't encourage one to do a bunch of walking around either, so personal conveinence is certainly a factor. Even tho there will only be 3-4 steers to start with, I want each of you to know that I'm taking all of this very seriously and even if it takes a bit more time, I want to learn to do it right. So, your input is greatly appreciated. When I began all of this it here, with goats, it was more of a novelty, but my attitude has changed, and with this step and each from now on, will be done on a more serious level.


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## farmerjan (Apr 19, 2017)

Just to add my  2 cents.  Greybeard is right.  For a beginner, try to start with a couple of steers.  Shorthorn is a decent breed.  They are divided into 2 categories, milking shorthorns and beef shorthorns.  If the kids are showing them then they are most likely beef.  Even heifers would make a good beef but there is them coming into heat to contend with.  Sometimes that is a problem, sometimes not.
 Get a book like "Raising beef cattle" by heather thomas smith. One of the "Storey books" Usually at TSC.  Will give you some basics.  Also, don't know about how your weather patterns are there, but here we figure 1-2 acres per head during the growing season.  Then there is hay. 
A few basics....An animal will "finish" for optimal slaughter at about 20-26 months of age.  That is for GOOD marbling in the meat.  So, to make it simpler, you should be getting an animal that is weaned,  eating good.  Probably in the 5-800 lb range.  Understand that older/bigger means closer to finishing.  Older/bigger will also utilize the pasture better with less inputs as in grain, until close to finishing.  You want this animal to GROW, and to do so eating grass.  Not having to "baby" and feed alot of grain etc. 
@cjc is right.....don't get the "cute" poor little calf... they are usually a reject for a reason and often don't grow well.  You want a pet, okay;  you want a productive beef, no.
That is not to say that an animal that is a "show" reject isn't a good one.  Also, if you have a chance to find one that say has a "bad eye" say from pinkeye, or even have one that doesn't have an eye, that is still a good prospect.  They will often be alot cheaper...and they only need one eye to find grass to eat.  They are heavily discounted at the stockyards.  We raise most all our "defective" cattle for meat.  Once it is on the rail, it doesn't matter.

One thing to consider, with the fencing..... Even though it will cost ALOT initially, consider  doing any fencing  with the idea that you will be able to use it for ANY animal there if you need to.  So, basic stock fencing/woven wire is the best.  Think about it.  If you want to turn the goats out or some sheep or even graze some hogs, barbed wire doesn't work that well.  I am not saying you have to use the expensive goat and sheep fencing...but the standard woven wire that is 48" tall, with stays that are 6" and graduated  from closer together near the bottom to the top.  Then you have "multi-purpose" fields to use, not just for the cattle.

We do not put up any fencing on any land we own that is not standard woven wire.  And most all the places we rent also.  It is also a deterrent to dogs and coyotes but not 100% safe.  Still better than barbed wire or smooth high tensile that can be electrified.  The cattle will not be bothered much by the coyotes if they are not calving;  dogs can/will run them and there is an answer for any dog harassing livestock...

I agree totally that mowing is a waste of grass.  I hate mowing the lawn where I rent as I figure that if there is enough to mow, it should be grazed.  I do have a couple of "chicken tractor type portable coops" that I move around the lawn.....

There's a ton more I can write, but will stop for now.


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## Bossroo (Apr 19, 2017)

I agree with the above comments, also I would highly recomment that you also set up your venture to run as a BUSINESS from the get go and also hire a CPA that specializes in ranching. That will save you many dollars and not to mention headaches.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 26, 2017)

Just wanted all to know that I've been busy with other things and haven't gotten those samples yet, but will. I want to work on pasture change over before fence goes up, then see the best quality mixture that I can grow there. Also, one field may be better suited for grazing than the others.


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## greybeard (Apr 26, 2017)

CntryBoy777 said:


> Also, one field may be better suited for grazing than the others.


Probably correct. Even within my own property, there are areas that are much better for forage than others. 

If I would put any one thing above the rest, I would point to getting the pH correct for the native or introduced grasses you intend to graze. Fertilizer is a waste if the pH is wrong, and pH work should be done first anyway and in most areas, lime is very cheap--cheaper than fertilizer..assuming it needs lime.


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## CntryBoy777 (Apr 29, 2017)

I went out today and collected my samples....
 ....we have rain moving in tonite and on/off thru Sun nite, and more coming Tue/Wed again. After the inch we got 2 days ago still had the soil damp, but it wasn't going to get any dryer, so I got that done. I will go on Mon to extension office and send them off and should get the report back in 2-3 wks. It will be interesti g to see if my 2 yrs of growing thru the winter has improved the soil in field#1, tho there isn't anything to compare it to, other than the 3 other fields. So, things will pretty much be on hold til the results come in on this front, but I still have Plenty to keep me busy....


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## Reindeermama (May 4, 2017)

Hey, I am not sure where to post this, and hope you guys don't mind me putting it on here. We are leasing 2 pastures to a couple. One of their pregnant cow has the sac coming out, and  there is something dripping out. I saw this on  Monday. They said that they had noticed that weekend. I have never seen it take that long, and I suggested they get a vet to come and take a look. They haven't. Looked at her today, still the same. Maybe, I am overreacting. Is it okay for it to go on this long? I know a little, but not that much. I am still learning. Help please. I am afraid that calf is going to be stillborn, or the mother is going to die. I have contacted them again. The bull they have is what I would call big boned. I don't know if that is the correct term. I wish I could help that poor mama.


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## Reindeermama (May 4, 2017)

It appears to be the amniotic sack.


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## jhm47 (May 5, 2017)

More than likely the cow can't have the calf, the calf is already dead, and the cow will die within days as the dead calf decomposes within her.  She needs a vet immediately, and if the owners won't call one, I'd call one yourself, after I called the humane society.  GET ON IT!! There isn't much time left.


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## Reindeermama (May 5, 2017)

Yes. Thanks that is what my husband and I decided to do.


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## greybeard (May 5, 2017)

Maybe she's had the calf off somewhere, and she just didn't clean out afterwards.
Still would need a vet look at her tho.


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## jhm47 (May 7, 2017)

AND-------What's happening now?  Please update us on her status.  Hoping for a good outcome!


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## Red the butcher (May 7, 2017)

Just putting it out there but of all the cows I've eaten jersey was hands down the best!


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## Reindeermama (May 7, 2017)

Wow, was lucky. Both calf and momma fine. The calf was big. I thought for sure it would be dead. When this lease is over, no more leasing. I will get a picture of calf and post it when I can. Right now momma is very protective.


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## Reindeermama (May 7, 2017)

Thanks for helping guys!


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## Latestarter (May 7, 2017)




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## Reindeermama (May 7, 2017)

I am still amazed at how big that baby was. The mom appears to be a Hereford/Brahman cross. The bull looks like it might be a short horn. I have never seen a bull like this before. I looked up short horn, and it is very close to the pictures I have seen. Whatever the bull is...it is throwing big calves.

After we let the pasture rest a bit, and clean it up. I would like to get some Dexter cattle. If anyone has some, please let me know your experience with them. I have done lots of research on them, and right now I am in the process of reading various books on cattle. My brother-in-law Matt works for A & M in agriculture, so I know he can give me some advice.


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## greybeard (May 7, 2017)

Braford cattle can have some large calves without much problem.
I no longer have them, but did have some that routinely had 100lb or more calves unassisted, but then I also have had one of my beefmaster cows that every calf has been 100lbs, with the sire being a Char/sim cross bull.
Beefmasters are a composite breed of Shorthorn-Brahma-Hereford. The exact % of the foundation animals was never documented but thought to be 25% Hereford, 25% Shorthorn and 50% Brahman


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## Reindeermama (May 8, 2017)

My goodness. Maybe it was okay, and it just needed more time, but the sack coming out and it going on for so long scared me.
I was thinking about Dexter cattle because if my Husband is gone, I felt like I could handle them, and take care of them. I also thought if we raised one for meat we could handle the smaller amount better.
On another note, what do you think of AI? I was thinking of doing that instead of getting a bull.  Of course, I am a little scared of bulls. When I was a child we had to climb into a camper on the back of pickup in a field because two bulls decided to have a bull fight. ( of course Janice Ann and I shouldn't have been out there)I have heard that Dexters tend to be docile, so it might be okay to have a bull.
Any thoughts.


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## greybeard (May 8, 2017)

AI is the ONLY way to go with only a few momma cows and heifers. 
Learning curve for sure, and you will miss sometimes, but the options for your offspring's genetics are endless.
(borrow a bull for cleanup  or just AI again)


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## norseofcourse (May 8, 2017)

Glad the mom and calf are both fine!


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## Reindeermama (May 11, 2017)

at 4 days old


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## greybeard (May 11, 2017)

Yep, a Braford look about 'em, but the one you can barely see has a Beefmaster look just from the little I can see so they could be either breed.


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## Reindeermama (May 11, 2017)

The bull is next to the tree. I don't know, but he kind of looks like the short horn I have seen on the internet. I am just really learning breeds.


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## farmerjan (May 13, 2017)

From what I can see of the bull next to the tree I would say more Braford than shorthorn.  Shorthorns usually do not have the defined red and white patches.  They run more solid red, solid white sometimes, but mostly a roan mix of reddish white and some that are outcrossed with angus are a blue roan.  He also seems to have more of a dewlap and that is not a shorthorn trait.


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## Reindeermama (May 13, 2017)

Yep, not too good at recognizing breeds yet, just trying. It is good to know what to look for. Just beginning to read cattle books.
Right now, I have been focusing on Dexter, because that is what we want when we are done with the pasture lease.
First, we need to improve the pasture. I am trying to find a book about that right now. It also needs to be broken into another pasture with a fence and gate so we can practice rotational grazing. That way we would have three instead of two pastures. I am thinking we need to clear out the bitter weed patches, oak tree saplings, and cactus, and then fertilize the area for better grass.


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## farmerjan (May 13, 2017)

If you are thinking about divisions, look seriously at using electric fencing as temporary division fences to get it split up.  Easy to put up, if the fence is hot then the cattle learn quickly to respect it, and you can move it if the original splits aren't the best for the land.

First off, get soil samples done on the land.  You can do that now.  Then with the recommendations you can do the fertilizing.  The biggest thing is lime if it calls for it.  Fertilizer will do you next to no good if the land is very low or high on the ph charts.  If it is sandy I think it will need lime, since you mentioned cactus.  It will also take a little longer for the lime to "do its magic"  and will benefit the soil longer than a quick application of fertilizer.  Cleaning up the unwanted brush and such will always help to improve but make sure you leave a few patches of trees for shade in the summer.

Get with whatever county agent in the area for help.  That's what they are getting paid for.  They can head you in the right direction for soil samples, and by all means also keep reading.  Try to find if they have any seminars coming up.  Most are free or a nominal charge if they include a lunch or dinner.  It might seem like you are out of your depth, but you will pick up something each time.  There are beginner grazing conferences here every year.  See if you have a Forage and Grasslands group in your area.  They love to get converts to grazing practices. Again, we have a fairly active group here in Va and we go to different things all the time.  Also try, Stockman Grass Farmers,  and Grazier  magazines.  Both can be found on the internet, and often at Tractor Supply Stores.


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## Reindeermama (May 13, 2017)

Thank you for the advice. It really helps point me in the right direction. I can't wait to get started with your suggestions.

The soil is sandy loam.  I will take a sample. We will keep the large oak trees for shade, it is the 3 or 4 foot tall ones we were going to get rid of. The cactus has all grown up just along the fence lines.  My husband says we need to tighten the wire fences, that they weren't pulled tight enough.

The other people never fertilized, and I personally think for the conditions they carried too many AU on 27 acres. It is dry and crunchy now. My term for no rain, and not much grass.

We are leasing out our pastures now, and I think they will need to start getting rid of some cattle now. There are 10 AU. There is 6  acres of brush, trees, and a creek in this 30 acres. There is one 20 acre with the 6  acres of brush, and one  7 acre pasture. There are 8 AU on the 20 acre, 4 mommas with calves, 3 pregnant, and 1 bull.  On the 7 acre they have 2 young heifers too young to bred. 

When we get ours, we only want a herd of about five. My reasoning is that I don't want to overgraze the land. It is in a dry area of the state(Texas).


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## farmerjan (May 13, 2017)

Your extension county agents can help but you will be taking several samples from different areas of the pastures.  If they are already fenced in separate sections then do each section separately.  You need to get at least 3-5 samples from each section, mix together in a bucket then take a mixed sample to send in.  If the conditions change alot from one area to another then test each area separately.  No sense in putting fertilizer or lime out if it is not needed in an area.  

There are several Texas farmers on here: @greybeard  is one with cattle. Maybe he can help you more from a local perspective. (meaning texas)

If you are talking only 5 head of Dexters then you may be under untilizing the pastures which is okay except that you might have to mow or do something different to keep down the unwanted weed growth. Mature dexters will only be 1/2 to 2/3 the size of the cattle I see in the pictures.  But again, I am not familiar with the dry land conditions you have there.


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## farmerjan (May 13, 2017)

So, @CntryBoy777  did you get your soil sample results back yet?


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## Reindeermama (May 13, 2017)

Thanks, all of that helps so much. I didn't know that about the soil samples. I just didn't want to overgraze. The pasture is in bad shape right now. There are bare patches and not a lot of grasses. They never used the other pasture. It has over knee high grass, and there are only the two heifers on it. I would like more Dexter, but I was concerned about using the land correctly.  Right now that one pasture is so bad they are having to feed range cubes and hay.

I haven't done soil samples yet, but was going to take them on Monday. I am glad I know how to do them correctly now.

My husband grew up with his Granddad ranching. He just says they have overgrazed the one pasture by never switching between them.  We are trying to correct the fencing, do something about the pastures, barns, and do a corral and loading chute. My only experience with cattle is spending summers with my grandma who worked as a  housekeeper for a rancher. So I am trying to do serious reading, and learn all I can.


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## Mike CHS (May 13, 2017)

You can do soil samples yourself but we use the CO-OP.  They come out and do it free in the hope that you will use their service for lime and/or fertilizer.  At least here we can order the product we need and rent their equipment to spread it.  It's pretty economical that way in bulk form.


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## CntryBoy777 (May 14, 2017)

farmerjan said:


> So, @CntryBoy777  did you get your soil sample results back yet?


I haven't gotten them yet, but have started looking for them. I was totally unaware of there being any "Action" on the thread, so a big apology to all of ya....not that ya needed my input or approval. It is about all of us Learning anyway.
I've been busy trying to finish up some projects, so I can focus on this project after the results are received.


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## WildRoseBeef (May 25, 2017)

Reindeermama said:


> Thank you for the advice. It really helps point me in the right direction. I can't wait to get started with your suggestions.
> 
> The soil is sandy loam.  I will take a sample. We will keep the large oak trees for shade, it is the 3 or 4 foot tall ones we were going to get rid of. The cactus has all grown up just along the fence lines.  My husband says we need to tighten the wire fences, that they weren't pulled tight enough.
> 
> ...



Hi @Reindeermama I'm quite late in getting on this thread but I just had a few things to mention that might be of some use to you. 

First of all, about the animal units. Do you know how big these animals are, as in their weights? Ten AU is typically going to be 10 animals all weighing around 1000 lb a piece (as a standard AU). If my guesses are right in that most of the cows on there are closer to 1400 lb or more, and the bull is around 2000 lb or more, plus calves may be (?) 200 lb a piece, that means that you may have closer to 13 AUEs (or higher if the cows are more than 1400 lbs) on that property, not 10 AU. 

Do you know what your stocking rate is? If it's really low, getting rid of some animals may help, but coming up with a grazing system that is going to force those animals into a group to be grazed in different parts of the pasture while allowing the rest of the area needed rest to recover some will also help immensely. 

With overgrazing, you're dealing with a function of time, not too many animals. You can have a large number of animals on the landscape, but what's crucial is how long to graze and how long to let that area rest. It's best if you can graze for a short period of time and rest for longer. And yes, I agree you have a serious issue of overgrazing there. 

Now, there's going to be the challenge with the forage that's there. You may need to reseed the area, especially since you mention there are bare patches that need to be filled in. Part of it is going to be fertility, but the other part is the improved grazing practices that will encourage the grasses to get deeper roots and to spread out more. That's where I need to stop yapping and hope that you can find some good mentors and advice to help you make the right decisions for your land. 

One more thing: Some other publications that come to mind are OnPasture and books by folks like Joel Salatin (Salad Bar Beef) and Jim Gerrish (Kick The Hay Habit). I've met the latter and he's an excellent source for understanding grazing principles and practices that involve the "rotational" grazing system, but more specifically, management-intensive grazing. 

Good luck, and happy pasture improvements!


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## CntryBoy777 (May 25, 2017)

Thus is the 3rd wk, so I've been anxiously checking the mail each day hoping for the results....but, nothing yet. I'd sure like to find out so I can take advantage of this growing season in improving the soil for the grasses. I will let ya know when I do get them.


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## CntryBoy777 (May 30, 2017)

I went to the mailbox today and got the results back. I was quite surprised and pleased. I can understand a small amount on the sheets, but most is foreign to me....here they are....
     ....the only field that lime is recommended for is field#1. It is field#3 that was planned on for the steers. I'm a bit confused on the fertilizer recommendations and was wondering if someone could help me to understand it better.


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## greybeard (May 30, 2017)

A pretty straight forward analysis report. What is it you need to know?


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## CntryBoy777 (May 30, 2017)

On the field#3 report, there are 2 examples. Do I just choose one to apply or is there other deciding factors in choosing one over the other?


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## greybeard (May 30, 2017)

N is always expressed in raw elemental form. Nitrogen is Nitrogen, but P & K parts of a fertilize mix can come from a variety of products and byproducts and differe fertilize companies use different 'stuff' from which to get the p&K. Not all have the same  'available potash/available potassium' levels and 'solubility' properties, and not all are the same price per lb.
You choose by which is readily available or more affordable in your area.
It's possible that neither of the 2 recommendations for year 1,2,3 etc are available at your local supplier. You'll have to find the closest match.
Take the report with you when you go to your supplier and they will match what they have with what you need.


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## CntryBoy777 (May 30, 2017)

Okay, that makes sense, thanks @greybeard . I was surprised at the results, I was expecting a much different result.


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## greybeard (May 30, 2017)

A bag of 13-13-13 fertilizer doesn't mean it has 13 lbs of each element in it, nor does it neccessarily mean it has 13% of each element in it, and different makers, depending on what they use for P&K  have different %s of the makeup to get the oxides of P&K that make up the fertilizer.
Understand the bag  labels:
https://www.agriculturesolutions.com/resources/87-understanding-fertililizer-tags


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## CntryBoy777 (Aug 9, 2017)

@Latestarter  you are more than welcome to discuss the cattle situation and "Getting Started" here.....my plans are on hold for the time being....and we can all learn together. It would be a great info thread for those that ask the question. Just because I may have started it, doesn't mean that another can't pick up the stick and run with it either....so, feel free to add to the info, all in a single spot......just a thought


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