# Where to start- Diagnosing and treating my pregnancy problems



## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 11, 2011)

I have had 4 does since July of last year. I bred all of them in August of last year and still have no kids. 

Two (Wind and Cammie) appeared to be pregnant and I was very hopeful for births in early Feb. Something happened though and for some reason either they were not pregnant and I was just imagining things, or they lost the kids late in the pregnancy. I never found any remains from any abortions so my theory is that because of a super cold snap (-40 below zero) around their due dates, they knew the danger of giving birth or aborting the babies and so began absorbing them. Cammie showed signs of being in heat a week after her due date, and Wind went into heat 2 weeks after her due date. Neither had gone into heat anytime before that since they were bred in Aug.

Two (Cinnamon and Winterdust) I believe have been getting pregnant, but lose the babies  approximately 2 months into the pregnancy, or they are having hormonal problems and are cycling only every 3 months. Winterdust as far as I can tell has not gone into heat since I bred her to my buck in early Dec, and may be pregnant. Cinnamon I though was pregnant, but she was in heat again just 2 days ago, after not being in heat for 2 months.

Cinnamon, Cammie, and Winterdust are all overweight.

Cammie and Wind kidded last year, both to twins, but Wind lost one of hers.

Winterdust and Cinnamon the previous owner thought had been bred. One definitely had been and aborted 4 months into the pregnancy. The other it is unknown as to wether or not she was ever pregnant.

Winterdust, Wind, and Cinnamon were undernourished but not badly when I bought them. It is believed that the lack of nutrition and proper care caused the abortion and death of the one kid by the previous owners.

Since they are registered with ADGA and AGS I checked on ADGA's website for any information I could find on their progeny. As far as I can tell both Winterdust (5) and Cinnamon (6) have only every kidded once and that was when they were yearlings. Wind (8) has kidded 4 times. In '05, '06, '07, and '10. Cammie I cannot tell because she was only registered with ADGA in the last couple of months, but I do know she gave birth to twins last year.

I have been experimenting with giving them all their minerals by herbs, so it is possible they are lacking in something that I have not yet realized. Just withing the last 2 weeks have I seen the disappearance of copper deficiency symptoms in Winterdust and Cinnamon. I do not believe they are selenium deficient currently. Wind and Cammie still have fishtails, but I expect those to soon be gone because of treatment.

If you know of anything that might help me figure out why I am not getting any kids please let me know. I can't afford a vet or nutritional testing now. But I may be able to soon.


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## helmstead (Mar 11, 2011)

I would try some hormone therapy...lute followed by a breeding (not on the lute cycle, but on the following cycle)...then BioTracking 30 days later to check for implantation, then possibly do BioTracking monthly...

Some have used CIDRs also to bring on a strong heat and help with conception.

Beyond that working, you might have to look into hormonal therapy THROUGH pregnancy - which I only recommend under a vet's supervision.  It worked for me with our doe, Bella, who had a hormonal abortion last year - this year we got healthy triplets at full term.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 11, 2011)

So I should automatically think it's all hormonal? 

I think I want to try and get them to excellent condition and then after I find it's not that go onto something else because I know being overweight (Cinnamon and Winterdust are pretty hefty girls) can really cause problems conceiving and giving birth.


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## jodief100 (Mar 11, 2011)

Just going to toss this out- could it be your buck?  Outright sterility is rare but reduced or diminished fertility is common.  A high fever can render a previously virile buck infertile.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 11, 2011)

The buck I used up until late Dec (died Dec 24th) could have had issues. He came with Wind, Winterdust, and Cinnamon, and so had the same issues. He also had a lot of false mounts when I bred them in Aug. But when I bred Winterdust in early Dec, it was two weeks after I started giving them lots of kelp. Before that I never saw an obvious heat out of Winterdust. 2 weeks after starting kelp she went into roaring heat, and when I bred her to my buck, there was no problems whatsoever from him.

Since then... I only have a little buckling, that I don't want breeding my girls, but I have no choice because I have no bucks for him to stay with, so he has to stay with my girls. He is young, about 8 months old. He seems very healthy, but it could be him.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 11, 2011)

I was just looking at the pedigree of my girls and found out that Cinnamon (real name Silveraurora JC Victoria ) is the great granddaughter of the most famous Nigie ever WGF Millie!!! Now I really want to get some kids out of her!


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> I was just looking at the pedigree of my girls and found out that Cinnamon (real name Silveraurora JC Victoria ) is the great granddaughter of the most famous Nigie ever WGF Millie!!! Now I really want to get some kids out of her!


WOW!  Very cool discovery!  PM me with how to get this info for any registered Nd I might get in the future, please & thank you!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 11, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
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Sent.  I wish AGS had a genetics search like ADGA's.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> Livinwright Farm said:
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Thanks!  you & Emmetts Dairy sure are blessings to me!


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## chandasue (Mar 11, 2011)

I found this on the Onion Creek Ranch website:

"Cloudburst Pregnancy: False pregnancy, pseudo-pregnancy, more specifically hydrometra.Everything about a cloudburst pregnancy is normal except that no kid was formed and a "cloudburst" of liquid comes out of the dam's body at delivery. Infectious diseases like toxoplasmosis and border disease may be the cause, as may certain plant materials that contain phytoestrogens. A more common cause is the chemical alteration of estrus through artificial induction into heat of does by producers who use gonadotrophin-releasing hormones."

I'm not sure if that'll help or add to the confusion...


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## Our7Wonders (Mar 12, 2011)

Aren't fertility issues pretty common as a symptom of copper deficiency?  I think in both males and females (I may be way off though).  I thought silent/weak heats and not settleing could be a symtom and since you know for sure you were dealing with a copper deficiency it seems that it could have at least some part in your issues.  

If lack of copper does cause fertility issues it could be that any hormonal issues resolve themselves simply by getting copper levels corrected, perhaps without the need for HRT.


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