# Fencing thru wooded area



## stevin

tossing the idea of running some fencing into a wooded area of my property. what would be my best choice?
my 3 biggest concerns would be....
1: a reliable fence that would keep my goats contained and safe.
2: ease of installation (uneven terrain).
3: $$$


----------



## freemotion

4.  Keeping predators out!

Love my woven wire fencing...2x4 openings, four feet high, with a strand of electric on top.  It follows the terrain somewhat, and I saw the neighbor's dog climb it and get dropped by the electric.  

I used t-posts for the cheapness and ease of installation in amongst the oak and maple tree roots.  It is not the most attractive fence, or the cheapest, but it has served me well.

I used pt posts on most corners and to support gates.

I had a small section of welded wire around my compost pile for about five minutes, then the goaties shredded it with their pointy little hoofies....


----------



## ksalvagno

Don't go cheap on fencing. You will regret it later. I love my woven wire fence too.


----------



## cmjust0

Hi-Tensile electric.  

If you get a good charger and go the extra mile to put in a really solid grounding system, they'll learn very quickly that they shouldn't come within a foot or so of the wire.

Installation is a snap with a wire dereeler, which are about $30 or so at TSC.  You just start at one end, pick up the loose end of the wire, and take off walking to the other end peeling off wire as you go.  That's especially handy for running fence through woods, where you can't necessarily run a tractor with a big woven wire fence unspooler thingy on the back of it.  Handling a single 12.5ga wire at a time is an absolute JOY in comparison to handling an entire spool of woven wire..  Woven wire is heavy, bulky, awkward...hi-tensile is just a wire.  You're just holding a wire, stripping it off the spool as you take a walk through the woods.  Granted, it gets a bit heavy after you've peeled off maybe 500-600', but it's still NOTHING like unrolling woven wire by hand.  

You also don't need to set very many posts, which saves a ton of labor and time...not to mention _money_.  On uneven terrain, you'll probably find that a t-post driven at the low point of dips and the high point of rises is about all it takes....50'+ between posts is no problem at all.

Hi-Tensile is cheap, too.  Way cheap.  A 4000' spool is about $100 at TSC.  If you do six strands, one spool provides 660+ feet.  A 330' roll of el cheapo woven wire cattle fence is $200...that's four times as much as hi-tensile!

Not to mention, you have to set WAY more posts with woven wire, and posts are expensive.  You can't even skimp and set t-posts the whole run, either, as a woven wire fence will get physical pressure from the animals and t-posts just won't hold up over time..  They will push it down, eventually.  Having to drop $10 on every 3rd or 4th post to stick a wooden one in the ground adds up quickly..._and_ you have to dig a hole!  If you concrete every wooden post in the ground, forget it...you're in for digging a hole, a $10 post, and $3 worth of heavy cement which _you_ have to haul into the woods.  Oh, and you gotta haul water to wet the cement, too.  Ack.  And this is every 3rd or 4th post..

With hi-tensile, you really only need wooden posts at the ends as it shouldn't receive any physical pressure.  That saves a lot of money and a lot of time.  Combine that with the fact that you simply don't need nearly as many posts and hi-tensile becomes even more economical.

Now, from what I've seen, a lot of folks look into hi-tensile and become concerned with the up-front cost of all the tools they "need" to do hi-tensile...  The crimping tool, crimps, springs, strainers, crank handles, twist tools, brace pins for posts, blah blah blah.  Well, the reality is that you don't actually need most of that crap.  All you really need is a _good_ pair of fence pliers (which you'd need anyway) to cut the tough hi-tensile wire, a dereeler ($30), a twist tool ($4), inline strainers ($3/ea), and a strainer handle ($6)..  

Crimping tool and crimps?  Forget it.  I haven't crimped a wire in a very long time..  The crimping tool is $60 and crimping sleeves are $15/pack.  That's highway robbery and totally unnecessary.  I use the twist tool to secure the wire to itself at the end of the run, and also to put in a strainer.  If I need to splice, I literally just tie the wire together with a square knot instead of crimping it.  A square knotted splice or twisted connection is basically free, less trouble, stronger, and more reliable than anything crimped.  

Tension springs?  Nope.  Never saw the need.  If the wire slacks up a bit, just grab your $5 handle and go crank the strainers a few notches until it's to your liking.

The strainers, btw, are a must, as is the strainer handle..  Strainers are only about $3/ea and you only need one per line every several hundred feet of fenceline.

Now, I know people see the strainers and cranks and springs and dereelers and crimps and crimping tool and all the other various accoutrement and just glaze over, straight away, then walk to the good ol' fashioned woven wire section and go "now _this_ I understand"...  Not everyone with woven wire, of course...but I personally know people who considered hi-tensile and opted for woven out of pure intimidation.

It's a shame, really..  I folks would just some time to really understand it...well, just suffice it to say that just because something's newer, faster, cheaper, and easier, that doesn't necessarily make it _worse_.


----------



## stevin

hmmmmm....
i'll have to do some reading up on electric fencing. i like the idea of simply running strands of hi-tensile wire thru the woods. sounds a whole lot easier than having to dig holes with tree roots everywhere. could i use the trees as my posts? and are there any recomendations for a charger? will electric fencing keep predators out? especially coyotes...?


----------



## cmjust0

So long as you use insulators, sure, you could use trees as your posts.  And if there's a section in a dip or rise where a tree's not convenient, just drop in a t-post.  No sweat.

As for keeping predators out....the smarter an animal is, the more quickly it learns to avoid an electric fence.  Coyotes are super smart, so I imagine they learn how to avoid a shock pretty quickly once the fence is up and running.  Now, whether avoiding a shock means avoiding the whole fence altogether or finding a weak spot to exploit is sort of up to the coyote.  My personal opinion is that no fence -- woven, barbed wire, electric, or any other type or combination that's a reasonable option for real-world livestock containment -- will keep a smart and determined predator out of the enclosure.  If they really want in, they'll find a way to get in.  

My border collie has been lit up several times through incidental contact, and it certainly appears to be a life-altering experience.  Dogs learn quickly, and she avoids the hi-tensile fence at all costs..  Whether that translates to a coyote finding somewhere else to hunt...I dunno.  I wouldn't doubt it, though.

If you're truly worried about coyote predation, I'd suggest investing in a good livestock guardian dog.


----------



## cmjust0

Something I just realized is that I forgot to mention one of the very best parts of hi-tensile fencing....ease of maintenance!  Especially since you're running it through the woods......

We had an ice storm here about a year ago and were without power for six days..  The animals respected the fence even without it being powered for 5-1/2 days, until ONE goat crossed from one enclosure to another.  Big whoop, I know....anyway, I digress..

When the power came back up, I went walking the fenceline and found that a HUGE branch -- probably 6"-8" in diameter -- had broken out of the top of a tree and fell directly on the fence, pushing all the wires almost flat to the ground.  I fired up my handy dandy chainsaw, cut it loose, and BOING! -- the fence sprang right back up.  I went to the next set of strainers, gave them a few cranks to take up what little slack the branch caused and badabing...I was done.  

Had that been a woven wire fence, I figure I may well have been out there with cutters and a come-along, cutting out the damaged section and stretching/splicing a new piece in its place.


----------



## stevin

which type of fence charger should i be looking at?
seems like there hundreds of different types from plug ins to solar powered....
i noticed that they are all rated by miles but should i be looking for the amount of electrical surge that the unit delivers?
also, what does an electrical fence cost to run? 
the wife will have me sleeping in the goat shed if the electric bill shoots thru the roof....


----------



## cmjust0

You'll want to look for a low-impedence charger, first of all..  And, yeah, the miles rating is bunk...look at joules.  I'm running a couple miles of hotwire on a Zareba 50mi, 2-joule charger and getting 5500V+ out of it pretty consistently.  Enough to peg a 5-light tester, and pegging a 5-light means it's good enough to hold just about anything.  

I think the next step down was a 20mi solid state charger, and it was only like $30 cheaper..  The difference between the two was $30 of the best money I could have spent on the farm, hands down.

If you can put the charger somewhere close to an electrical outlet, I'd definitely go with a plug-in model.  I know folks who use the solar ones and love them, but to me, mains power is more reliable than battery power..  And even solar chargers rely on batteries..  

The cost of running a fence controller is almost zero.  According to Zareba, my 50mi charger uses a scant 5 kilowatt hours per _month.._  If each kilowatt hour costs you $0.12 (nat'l avg), your charger will add about $0.60 to your bill.  In other words, you won't even notice you plugged it in.


----------



## landis1659

I agree with the electric fence but what about the wooded area, we put up one on top of our chainlinc to keep our Huskeys from jumping the fence to get to the goats and chickens works like a charm, the only problem is the woods around us.  I'm constintly have to pull the limbs and vines off of the electic wire.  If anything touches the wire it shorts out.  Is there a type that doesn't do this??  We want to take our pasture deeper into the woods and I know electric would be cheeper but I'm afraid I would have to be out there everyday pulling of the vines that seem to climb overnight everywhere.  Sorry to cut in.

Pepper


----------



## freemotion

I just saw a couple of videos on youtube last night (sorry, no link, you'll have to search....I think it was called PolyFace pigs part 1 and PolyFace pigs part 2....) where Joel Salatin was describing how he fences through the woods for his pigs...he loops nylon cord around the trees and adds another loop to hold the aluminum wire (lighter wire and no rusting) and only uses a rebar post when there are no trees available.  The nylon loops won't damage the trees and are somewhat elastic.  Tension on the wire holds the wire away from the trees, and the nylon loop acts as an insulator/installator.  Sounded pretty cool.  Might have to try it myself.


----------



## cmjust0

landis1659 said:
			
		

> I'm constintly have to pull the limbs and vines off of the electic wire.  If anything touches the wire it shorts out.  Is there a type that doesn't do this??


What kind of charger do you have?  Is it a 'solid state' or 'low impedience' type?  How many joules does it put out?  How much hot wire are you running?  How is your grounding system set up?

There are a lot of variables in electric fences, but a low impedence charger with a fairly high joule-output rating that's connected to a robust grounding system can tolerate quite a bit of trash on the line.  My bottom hot wire is literally covered with grass and weeds for hundreds of feet at a stretch and my fence is still effective..  It might drop to 3kV when the weather's really wet, but a day or two of dry weather puts me back up to 5.5kV+.  

I'd be in better shape if I had the gumption to weedeat, of course, but..........


----------



## cmjust0

freemotion said:
			
		

> I just saw a couple of videos on youtube last night (sorry, no link, you'll have to search....I think it was called PolyFace pigs part 1 and PolyFace pigs part 2....) where Joel Salatin was describing how he fences through the woods for his pigs...he loops nylon cord around the trees and adds another loop to hold the aluminum wire (lighter wire and no rusting) and only uses a rebar post when there are no trees available.  The nylon loops won't damage the trees and are somewhat elastic.  Tension on the wire holds the wire away from the trees, and the nylon loop acts as an insulator/installator.  Sounded pretty cool.  Might have to try it myself.


Aluminum wire sucks, IMNSHO.  Yeah, it's light and it won't rust, but it also won't hold tension for literally more than a few days before it stretches.  Before ya know it...it's totally slack.  And if you've had to bend it much at all (around a corner, for instance), there's no good way to take up the slack because it'll sorta hang where it's bent.  Plus, if ever you take it down, there's just no re-using it.  It's pretty much a one-and-done deal.  And, it's flimsy...very easy to break.

The nylon polywire stuff is much, much better if you ask me.  It holds tension much longer, doesn't have as much 'memory' on corners so you can retension it if necessary.  It's actually possible to take it down, spool it up, and re-use it later.  And if you need to make a splice, you can just tie it together.  To hook it up to an existing hot wire, just tie it on.  

Polywire is more expensive, but one of the real beauties of electric fence is the ability to scale it up and down, move it, re-arrange it, and generally use it as a dynamic containment system..  If you're gonna be doing much of that, cheap aluminum wire is a false economy.  

Took me several $20 spools of the stuff to figure that out.  :/


----------



## landis1659

Thank you I will look into that, we are just using a small solar charger with the wire.  It is grounded but I don't know how far down my husband went with the grounding rods he kept hitting rocks.  We used 3 grounding rods a few feet apart.  The guy at TS said this would be plenty for keeping the dog from jumping.  It works until some vine grows up the fence.  We have one along the top and one 6 inches from the bottom to keep them from digging under the fence.  I'm gonna check this other stuff out if you say it should go through the woods.  I think it would be much easier.  How far apart would you need to put the posts?  And I think you said 5 strings of it would be enough??  Thanks for your help again. 

Pepper


----------



## SDGsoap&dairy

I have some of the same challenges here: 14 acres of woods and not a bit of it is flat!  Not that the goats mind about that, but it has made installing fencing a little difficult.  Right now we have only one paddock (made from cattle panels) but want to expand and haven't made a decision about what type of fencing to use.  We've been considering electric as well, but have heard mixed reviews.

Do you have any recommended reading on how to install electric fencing?


----------



## Gansereit Farms

Thanks for the information in this post on electric fencing through the woods.  We will be installing 6 strand 12 gauge wire with a speedrite 3000 charge (3 joules).  Hoping that the nail in insulators are ok to use as the trees will be our fence posts.


----------



## lacasse farms

I also do not recommend going cheap on fencing. Instead check the farm & garden section of your local craigslist ads. I prefer woven wire or making my own pine boards with a chainsaw mill is always pleasing.


----------



## Gansereit Farms

I would not say we are going "cheap" but rather that we are being wise and frugal.  The charger is a 3 Joule charger more than enough to make a goat respect it.  I work with the Boer goats I am buying at a farm down the road and I can tell you they have panel fencing which seems to me to be an absolute nightmare.  I will be using portable Premeire One electric netting fence with the goats come spring but the high tensil is for permanent paddocks here on my land.


----------



## bcnewe2

CMjustO
Could you _please_ post a picture of your high tensile wire fence?  I've tried electric. I'm not stringing it right. Plus I must be using aluminum wire that is easily broken. My sheep will dive right through it pulling it apart. I do have some poly wire and even some tape. 
I would greatly benefit from a picture of your posts and corners.  I am a watch and learn but reading your post sorta confused me. I do understand the part about the tensioners but pretty please on the pictures???

Thanks


----------



## treeclimber233

I would think sheep would be difficult to keep in with electric fence because the wool will insulate the charge.  The current must touch skin to feel the shock.  Also the poly wire (plastic and wire intertwined) does not work as well as plain ole wire.  Poly wire does not hold my horse when she has a winter coat.  Her hair insulates her skin from the electric shock.  I use a combo of poly rope and bare wire.  Bare wire to carry the charge and poly rope for visibility even at night.  Even my escape artist will not go near the electric fence even if it is off.  

Also some electric fence chargers have a weed whacker feature to kill any weeds that touch it.  Mine does not have that feature but still kills weeds that touch it as long as not too many touch at the same time.


----------

