# Please help- CRITTER UPDATE



## damummis (Mar 7, 2011)

I just got 2 new goats yesterday and one is pooping normal, the other has diarrhea.  I gave her warm water with salt, baking soda and honey, so far and milked her.  What else can I do?  Please help I am very concerned, being a new goat mommy and all.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 7, 2011)

damummis said:
			
		

> I just got 2 new goats yesterday and one is pooping normal, the other has diarrhea.  I gave her warm water with salt, baking soda and honey, so far and milked her.  What else can I do?  Please help I am very concerned, being a new goat mommy and all.


Sorry to hear you are already having problems, please let us now, what breed of goats, the age of the goats, Did she come to you with scours, or did it start since you had her. And what have you fed her so far?


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 7, 2011)

It may simply be stress.  If she's an adult I would give her some B complex and probios and I wouldn't change anything dietary.  If she's still eating her hay I would just watch her for a day or so and see if she starts to adjust.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Mar 7, 2011)

Ages will definately help.  But changes in goats surroundings, feed, and just the travel alone can stress a goat out.  

I would get a fecal done and see if she is carrying a worm load..etc.   It could just be new feed and surroundings...etc??  Stress changes.

But also if she is in milk and recently freshened...their bodies are under stress and they can get wormy.  I will worm my girls right after freshening cuz they bodies are in great demand..so worms will hit hard when they are vulnerable!!!  Vultures!!  

I would also give her some baking soda and probiotics. To assist if thier is any balance issues in the rumen.  And a shot a Vitamin B will help. Wont hurt if no issues so worth doing for sure!!  

Hope they get better soon!!!


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## julieq (Mar 7, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> It may simply be stress.  If she's an adult I would give her some B complex and probios and I wouldn't change anything dietary.  If she's still eating her hay I would just watch her for a day or so and see if she starts to adjust.


Totally agree here.


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## Roll farms (Mar 7, 2011)

julieq said:
			
		

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Make that x 3


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 7, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

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x 4


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## phoenixmama (Mar 7, 2011)

Granted, I'm not as experienced as many are on here...but:

I had a doe that slept on my back porch for two nights in a row (instead of in the goat barn) because I was very sick with the flu, and it was raining thus didn't put them away (and she didn't want to walk to the barn).  The morning after the second night there was diarrhea everywhere.  I was worried, but made sure to get her back to her normal routine and within a day she was back to normal stool.  

My point:  I agree that it's likely stress.  I always like simple solutions to problems...and the simple answer is usually the right one (speaking about life in general here, not just goats).


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## damummis (Mar 7, 2011)

The goat is just under 2.  I just went out and checked her and she still has diarrhea.  I am going to wait and see like all you folks are suggesting.  

She has had some hay but seems tired.  It is quite crappy out and they seem content in their barn.

ETA:  THANKS FOR THE ADVISE!!


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## Roll farms (Mar 7, 2011)

Probios, maybe a B shot, and then wait and see...


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## damummis (Mar 8, 2011)

I want to thank everyone for the info and the reassurance.  My little girl is better.  I checked her bum and there was no "drool".  I didn't see here poop yet but she seems perkier and there were no messes on the stall floor.  YAY!

Now if I could just figure out the whole milking thing......


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 8, 2011)

Glad to hear it!


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## damummis (Mar 8, 2011)

My 40th B-day presents from my amazing hubby.  2 nubian/alpine x and 2 jacob sheep, prego.


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## poorboys (Mar 8, 2011)

I ALWAYS LOVE IT WHEN MY HUBBY SAYS "DO YOU WANT THEM"


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 8, 2011)

Is that a chocolate cou clair?  What a beautiful color!  Nice little herd you have there.


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## damummis (Mar 9, 2011)

Ok now there is a new problem, I fear I am a big SUCKER.  I was told I was buying healthy disease free animals and I was lied to.  I feel like a fool.  I am heart broken and can't stop crying.

 Both goats have lumps next to their shoulder.  I fear it is CL, I don't know for sure, and there are not any local farm vets, the closest would cost more that the animals.  I am going to keep an eye one them and take it as it comes.  I spent most of the night on the forum researching my options.  RH, you are a plethora of info, thank you.  Based on what I have read my decision is to manage it if it is indeed CL.  We are building a new place in the coming future and I will start a new flock there with higher standards, but for now I will give these animals the best life I can.

I believe things happen for a reason and I can not let these animal go back to where they came.  They deserve better.

Their feet.... YUCK!!!  This will be quite the learning experience.


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## BlackSheepOrganics (Mar 9, 2011)

damummis said:
			
		

> Both goats have lumps next to their shoulder.


I'm daft I guess, because I'm not real sure where exactly you mean.  However, is it possible you are feeling one of the lymph nodes?  If they are fighting something off, that might be one reason.

Something I learned the hard way was to contact the past vet of whomever I am buying from and ask my questions.  Something you might try is to find out where they were taking their goats and call that vet to see what you can find out about your goats.  The person may never have used a vet but if they did, you might find out some useful info from the vet.  

If it were me, I would not tell her why, but just let her know you're trying to get together your files of info on your herd and would like to get whatever info you can from the past vet.  If the person thinks you are accusing or upset you most likely won't get anywhere with it.

I know that is not much help right now, but I hope maybe it can help you get some info that will help.

Good luck and hang in there!


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 9, 2011)

Are you sure they're not vaccination site lumps?  The C/D &T vaccine leaves a large granuloma when given SQ.


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## elevan (Mar 9, 2011)

BlackSheepOrganics said:
			
		

> damummis said:
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If they were recently given a shot (including vaccinations)...it could be a shot lump...


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## Roll farms (Mar 9, 2011)

Can you post pictures?


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## damummis (Mar 9, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Are you sure they're not vaccination site lumps?  The C/D &T vaccine leaves a large granuloma when given SQ.


No, I asked if they had shots recently and he said no.  He said that goats get cyst all the time from splinters on the wood.

RH Here are the pics.


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## chandasue (Mar 9, 2011)

> He said that goats get cyst all the time from splinters on the wood.


Oh dear... I don't have personal experience but that location scares me. Sounds like he maybe doesn't know what he's dealing with.


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## helmstead (Mar 9, 2011)

Those are not good.  I would take them back ASAP before those burst.  You don't want CL on your property.


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## julieq (Mar 9, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Those are not good.  I would take them back ASAP before those burst.  You don't want CL on your property.


Second that!  If you get it on your property then new goats can easily get it too!


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 9, 2011)

Oh, I am so sorry that this is happening to you and your newly acquired goats.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 9, 2011)

I am so sorry!   That's not a typical vaccine location and since the owner confirmed not having vaccinated I would send them back ASAP if that's possible.  Regular cysts (regardless of what he *thinks* is causing them) is NOT normal and is a huge red flag.  Gosh, that is such a bummer. 

ETA: I'm really just trying to wrap my head around how an excuse like wood splinters could possibly account for two does having abscesses in the same place at the same time?  :/  Just a major bummer.


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## Roll farms (Mar 9, 2011)

Yeah....I'm betting that is CL...Nothing can be definitively diagnosed online of course, but...sure does look like it, and the 'no vaccinations' recently pretty much helps to confirm it.

If I could have stopped it before we started....I would have.  
You have a chance to get rid of these guys and start fresh.  I won't blame you for keeping them (I did) but...
8 yrs later, I sort of wish now that I hadn't.

Just so ya know...sheep get it, too....you might find some under their wool.

I am sorry he lied to you....My guess is he knows what it is and just lies to his customers.....I could be wrong, but it's been my experience that most goat keepers find out about CL and either lie or sell off their stock that have it.

If he really IS that uninformed...than he has no business w/ goats to begin with....

Either way, I am sorry you're learning the hard way your 1st time out.


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## damummis (Mar 9, 2011)

He won't take them back, saying I am over-reacting and he swears his herd is CAE & CL free.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 9, 2011)

Then why wouldn't he take them back?  You've only had them a couple DAYS right?!


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## Roll farms (Mar 9, 2011)

Man, that sucks.  He sucks.

I'm so sorry.


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## mossyStone (Mar 9, 2011)

I am sorry your dealing with a real bozo ...... he should take them back..


 i am so sorry.....


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## currycomb (Mar 9, 2011)

yes, he should take them back, but maybe he cannot give you your money back, it has already been spent. sorry, it looks like cl. best i can offer is to put them somewhere that you can clean up the mess when they bust, maybe cut the abcess open when the hair falls off the lump, and use a sandwich bag to collect all the puss you can, and then wash the lump with iodine or alcohol. keep penned up until lump has dried up. it is possible and likely they will get more abcesses, be prepared for that. like roll said, we had it wish we didn't, but you just deal with it. we culled all the goats, got new stock on different ground, so far so good.  good luck


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## helmstead (Mar 9, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> Man, that sucks.  He sucks.


x1000


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## ksalvagno (Mar 9, 2011)

He knew what he was doing. What a jerk.    I'm so sorry you are going through this.


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## Our7Wonders (Mar 9, 2011)

Unethical.  If it were me I'd have a vet test it NOW.  They can lance it drain it and let you know within two days if it's CL.  Then you have proof.  Over reacting!  I'd like to give him a piece of my mind!  I'm not one to sue people but I'm not above throwing out the threat.  I'd tell him with the proof you have from the vet that he either takes them back or you'll take him to small claims court.  You may not get your money back, but at least you won't have the headache of having to deal with this.  It will not hurt his current herd in any way to take them back - he already has it on his land.  However, it will contaminate yours, possibly for years to come.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 9, 2011)

If he is able to swear up and down that they didn't have it, then demand the vet papers proving that they and the rest of his herd don't have it! If he refuses to send you the copies for your animals and the rest of his herd, then take him to court!
What a Jerk!


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## damummis (Mar 21, 2011)

Princess and Daisy's lumps have not changed.  I have found a farm vet that will be coming Thursday.  I will have them aspirated and tested.  I am on pins and needles......

This vet comes very highly recommended by farm folks.  I find it interesting when I called my regular vet they referred me to someone an hour away.  The NEW vet is in the next town.  She will check everyone while she is here.  2 sheep, 2 goats, cat and dog.  Yay!!!


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## Roll farms (Mar 21, 2011)

Keep us posted, hoping it turns out ok....


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## helmstead (Mar 21, 2011)

Since you have a vet coming - ask him to REMOVE the entire abscess and lance it off site.  This way, no leakage = no soil contamination.


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## damummis (Mar 21, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Since you have a vet coming - ask him to REMOVE the entire abscess and lance it off site.  This way, no leakage = no soil contamination.


Good idea.


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## rebelINny (Mar 22, 2011)

Good luck!  Will be watching this thread for updates.


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## damummis (Mar 23, 2011)

Tomorrow is vet day.  Hope for favorable results.


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## St0rmyM00n (Mar 23, 2011)

How did it go?


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## ksj0225 (Mar 24, 2011)




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## damummis (Mar 24, 2011)

The farm vet came today.  What a sad day on the farm.
Princess- more than likely Cl+, poor shape, heavy worm load and lice.  I was told she should be on antibiotics and dried off because she fears that she is wasting due to the CL.
Daisy- more than likely CL+ due to the fact that she has a lump in the same spot and a new one starting on her jaw, poor shape, heavy worm load and lice.  Told to dry her off too.
Yvonne- Older than thought, missing teeth,pink eye, poor shape, congested lungs, neurological problems (stargazing)and lice.  Can't tell if prego or not due to the immense amount of matted wool.
Bessie- Older than thought, also missing teeth, poor shape, can't tell if prego cause of wool.

So I guess I bought lemons........


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## jessica117 (Mar 24, 2011)

So sorry to hear that.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 24, 2011)

Shame on the seller.  Shame, shame. 

Sorry damummis, what a rotten experience.


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## lilhill (Mar 24, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Shame on the seller.  Shame, shame.
> 
> Sorry damummis, what a rotten experience.


I totally agree.  Sorry it didn't turn out the way we all wanted it to.  I hate it when breeders totally intentionally screw people.  How do they sleep at night!


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## phoenixmama (Mar 24, 2011)

So sorry...

I won't dignify that person that sold you the goats by calling him a "breeder"...what a jerk!


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## Roll farms (Mar 24, 2011)

I'm sorry.

If I were closer, I'd go beat them up for you.


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## PattySh (Mar 24, 2011)

That's horrid. That guy definately knew what he was doing. Poor animals.


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## babsbag (Mar 24, 2011)

If I was closer I would help her find a goat that is healthy. When I bought my first ones I had no clue what to look for. While they aren't perfectly healthy (+ CL blood test) they did not have worms, bad teeth, lice, bad feet, CAE, or any of the other things I would look for now. It can be a hard learning experience for sure. Were I to do it again, I would test first and buy second. 

I am so sorry, I know it breaks your heart. That guy is a jerk to be sure, but that doesn't make it any easier for you.


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## Our7Wonders (Mar 25, 2011)

At the very least I'd be sure to send him a copy of the vets report - certified mail so you know he receives it.  I don't think I could handle a face to face meeting with him but I'd want to be certain he knew you got positive results on them - especially since he said you were over-reacting initially.  

I still think I'd insist he took them back or threaten civil suit.

I'm so sorry, it's a shame there are people out there like him.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 25, 2011)

Our7Wonders said:
			
		

> At the very least I'd be sure to send him a copy of the vets report - certified mail so you know he receives it.  I don't think I could handle a face to face meeting with him but I'd want to be certain he knew you got positive results on them - especially since he said you were over-reacting initially.


Yeah, on the very, very slight chance the seller wasn't lying but in total denial about his herd's health status he should see conclusive tests.  He's probably well aware and just unethical, but I'd want to show proof before walking away.  Maybe he didn't expect you to shell out for the tests and will change his tune when confronted with them.  Doubtful, but I'd still be tempted to do so.  I'd also be sharing my experience with the locals, personally.  It's not slander if you have proof.


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## Roll farms (Mar 25, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> Our7Wonders said:
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x 3


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## damummis (Mar 25, 2011)

So Farmer Ben called back.  I told him about the vet visit.  He insists my vet is a quack, he uses the state vet.  There was nothing wrong with "those animals".  It must have come from my farm......yada, yada, yada.

Well, I introduced ol' farmer ben (doesn't deserve capitals) to the Redheaded Italian Aries.   I used all of his lines on him.  He was fuming.  "You said you wanted me to be happy, right.  Make me happy.  Come get your animals and give me my money back."  "You said you want me to tell everyone how happy I am and where I go my animals, right?  Come get your animals and give me my money back and I will keep my mouth shut, cause I am sure you don't want me to tell everyone where I got my sick animals.  Craigslist works both ways you know."

When I was done, I walked out to two girls with pillows over their faces laughing their butts off.  "Wow, mom.  Didn't know you had it in you."


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 25, 2011)

Came from YOUR farm?!!  Ok first, you didn't have any goats or sheep previously.  Second HE SAID THAT HIS GOATS GET "CYSTS" ALL THE TIME!  They're "splinters," but he already admitted that.   Third, I'll bet $10 those vets use the same freaking lab.


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## ksalvagno (Mar 25, 2011)

My guess is that he never has the vet out. I'm sorry you have to go through this.


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## helmstead (Mar 25, 2011)

I would be calling the state vet...


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## Roll farms (Mar 25, 2011)

damummis said:
			
		

> So Farmer Ben called back.  I told him about the vet visit.  He insists my vet is a quack, he uses the state vet.  There was nothing wrong with "those animals".  It must have come from my farm......yada, yada, yada.
> 
> Well, I introduced ol' farmer ben (doesn't deserve capitals) to the Redheaded Italian Aries.   I used all of his lines on him.  He was fuming.  "You said you wanted me to be happy, right.  Make me happy.  Come get your animals and give me my money back."  "You said you want me to tell everyone how happy I am and where I go my animals, right?  Come get your animals and give me my money back and I will keep my mouth shut, cause I am sure you don't want me to tell everyone where I got my sick animals.  Craigslist works both ways you know."
> 
> When I was done, I walked out to two girls with pillows over their faces laughing their butts off.  "Wow, mom.  Didn't know you had it in you."


GOOD FOR YOU!!!!


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## chandasue (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all this crap but at least you got to tell him off.   I'm shocked he even called you back.   I hope you can get this resolved somehow or another, even if it's starting over from scratch.


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## damummis (Mar 25, 2011)

This is not over yet.  farmer ben called my vet.  She called me because she needs my permission to talk to him.  She will call him this afternoon.  I told her anything she can do to get him to come and get his animals would be helpful.  She also asked if I would like her to keep her ear open for clean, healthy animals.  I told her yes.



I need a miracle.


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## ksj0225 (Mar 25, 2011)

I really hope he comes and gets them...  

  I'm sorry.


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## damummis (Mar 25, 2011)

I did find these CL adds
http://maine.craigslist.org/grd/2244393699.html
http://maine.craigslist.org/grd/2281667385.html

I e-mailed both and asked a lot of questions.


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## damummis (Mar 26, 2011)

farmer ben has not called, so I still have the goats and sheep.  One sheep and one goat needs antibiotics according to the vet.  I picked up some Pen-g-procaine.  What are the dosages and how do I inject?  I also picked up some vitamin b injection.  What are dosages and inject, method for that too?

I can not let these animals get worse.  They are in my care and I have to do my best.  Please help.

I have nutri-drenched all of them.  Picked up some better hay, alfalfa with molasses.  I might as well spoil them as long as I have them.

Any more tips on getting these gals in shape???


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## Roll farms (Mar 26, 2011)

From Fiasco

(Here's a link to her site, there is good care / general info there
http://fiascofarm.com/goats/index.htm

(this is the dosage I've used in the past)
Pen G:
For treatment of: 
Penicillin is effective against gram-positive bacteria. Good for streptococcus infections, chronic pneumonia and other infections 
Goat dose: SQ Injection 
1ml per 15 lbs. twice daily - Treat from 5-14 days, never less than 5. It should be used at least 5 days and until all symptoms have disappeared, whichever comes first. 

B vit
B Complex helps to soothe the intestinal linings, and stimulates the appetite. 
For goats who are anemic from worms or stressed from illness. 
Goat dose: SQ Injection or Oral 
Check label for strength/doses. 


I usually inject that one in the butt cheek (IM) but do it whatever way you're comfortable with.  I dose at 5cc per 100#.  They'll just pee out any extra.


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## babsbag (Apr 8, 2011)

What happened with your critters? Did the breeder take them back or are trying to nurse them back to health?


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## damummis (Apr 17, 2011)

farmer ben refuses to take them back.  SO, I am nursing them back to health. They have had a rough enough life I think.  I did have to lance Hazel's abscess.  I did it in the neighbor's driveway.  Thick creamy off white goo.  Daisy's lump has not really progressed.  I am feeding everyone better hay and giving some supplements to improve their immune systems.  They have been producing more milk in one milking than they did when I milked them 2x a day.  They have gained weight and their coats look better.

The sheep are doing really well.  Maybe we will have lambs.
http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=10055
Pics are in the thread above.


The weather has been crazy.  Wet and windy.  Not conducive to happy goats but I am doing what I can.


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## Roll farms (Apr 17, 2011)




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## Livinwright Farm (Apr 17, 2011)

I would do as others suggested and take him to court for the expenses of caring for the CL+ girls that he swore were clean.  You have the proof from your vet, and a judge can very easily verify if he even ever used A vet, let alone the state vet.  I guarantee you would win the amount and potentially more than you ask to be compensated, hands down!
"farmer" ben is a massive jerk who needs to be set right.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Apr 17, 2011)

It might also make him think twice about doing that to someone else. ^^^


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## babsbag (Apr 18, 2011)

I am glad that you are doing good things for them, I know it is hard on you. You are a good person to take care of God's creatures.

Hoping for lambs for you. I don't read the sheep seciton so if you get some lambs please let us know so we can enjoy the pictures and share with you.

Keep up the good work and good luck.


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## Okie Amazon (Apr 18, 2011)

Sorry to read about your first time goat experience. That guy has some bad karma coming to him for sure.


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## damummis (Apr 18, 2011)

Okie Amazon said:
			
		

> Sorry to read about your first time goat experience. That guy has some bad karma coming to him for sure.


Bad Karma is an understatement.


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