# New to shepherding



## mystang89 (Oct 27, 2016)

Hello all,

I am about to close on a farm that has 7 acres of fenced pastureland. I don't know what the pasture is made up of but I do know that it does have 5 or so natural springs that run through it at various points. I live in Southern Indiana to give you a perspective of my weather situation. 

I have read different threads trying to familiarize myself with Sheep, what I need to look out for, how to care for them, what grasses they like, how to pasture, rotate, worm, flush and all those other words which are currently swimming around in my head. 

http://www.milkingsheep.com/sheep-milk-production/
http://ag.ansc.purdue.edu/sheep/arti...mbdisease.html
http://www.sheepscreek.com/rural/lamb.html
http://www.sheep101.info/sheepdiseases.html
http://www.sheep101.info/201/parasite.html
http://www.sheepscreek.com/rural/pasture.html
http://www.sheepscreek.com/rural/predator.html

These are just a few of the links that I have completely read. My mind is 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			








Here are some of the things that I know, consider them my guiding list. I know I want Dairy Sheep, probably East Friesian I know that I want to do things as absolutely naturally and self sufficiently as possible. Meaning no chemicals, no pesticides, no unnatural fertilizers (10-10-10) etc. I'd like to try to make my own grain for when they need extra energy. Things like that. I know that this will not be a business. I will have at most 10 sheep probably. They will be used for meat and milk. I want a horse or 2 as well. I say this so you can picture what I'm wanting to graze together.

At this point, as I said, my mind is overwhelmed. I know I still have at least 5 months till I think about getting any of those but in that time I want to learn and know as much as possible. So my questions at the moment would simply be:

What would you do different at the beginning of raising sheep? 
What are some simple pointers for a beginner? 
What are the most common things to look out for? 

I know that I will have SO many more questions to come, they are all scattered inside that tiny hole I have in my head at the moment that I can't even make sense of them. One day I will write down little bullet points and shoot them at you all but for now I just need baby steps.


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## mysunwolf (Oct 27, 2016)

Please consider getting a different breed if you are looking to do things naturally (I assume this means with the least amount of chemical wormer possible, no antibiotics, less grain, and I'm sure there are more items I'm missing). I know some good people in the midwest raising Katahdins that milk almost as well as an EF. The Friesians are a high maintenance sheep that need a lot of grain to stay in condition when lambs are on them, even when you are not milking them. They also tend to have more health problems and are more fragile than meat breeds. If you have streams running through the property they are going to have more parasite and foot rot issues, but your pastures will look great.

That being said, I know some Icelandic/EF crosses that are the best of both worlds and might do well in your kind of situation. They are hardier than the high percentage EFs and milk almost as well. I'm currently developing a line of EF crosses that are very hardy and milk pretty well.

Simple pointers?
• They WILL get worms, no matter how much DE and pumpkins and wormwood etc that you feed them. Be prepared to use chemical wormers to save your lambs.
• You WILL lose some sheep, and that's okay because the learning curve is steep. 
• Find an excellent sheep/goat vet in your area (I actually prefer the goat vets because they understand the value of a dairy animal better than sheep vets) and establish a relationship with them by asking them to come out and do basic fecal tests, blood draws, or check-ups on the flock.
• Purchase your initial sheep from someone whose operation looks similar to yours and whose management practices are like yours.
• Don't rush into purchasing, find someone willing to sell their older (5-6 years) stock at a reasonable price (high percentage dairy sheep can run $300-$800+ a head so be prepared for that... but a higher price doesn't always mean higher quality sheep!). 
• Join some Facebook groups that specialize in dairy sheep (Milking Sheep and Homestead Dairy Sheep are two that I know of).
• Find a dairy sheep person near you who can help you find some good deals on stock and help you pick out a small starter group that will work for you (not always possible to find someone like this, but if it is possible I always recommend it).
• Be prepared to screw up, seriously! And be prepared to keep trying.

Sounds like you are certainly doing your research! I hope you keep researching, but don't forget to find some people in the sheep business and listen to their advice (please not mine, someone else's would be much better). It may not always apply to your sheep operation, but they still have a lot of knowledge to share.


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## Goat Whisperer (Oct 27, 2016)

x2!

Welcome to the forum 
Congratulations on your new farm-to-be! You must be thrilled 

If you are planning on doing everything natural, you WILL have hardships. 

It's hard to say what is "natural" & "unnatural" because you technically would be putting your sheep in an "unnatural" environment. You are going to have them in a fenced pasture and that would = "unnatural" because they wouldn't live like that "in the wild". I'm NOT saying this to be rude or come off as a jerk, just to give you another perspective. 

You will be milking them, that would be considered "unnatural" if you look at chemicals etc. as unnatural. 

I know with dairy goats, it is not wise to pick the most common dairy breed and put them in an environment where it basically "hands off" while it is still expected to produce at an "unnatural" rate. It almost always kills the doe or she is always struggling. 

Glad to see you are doing your research first!  If you truly set on raising an "unnatural " breed in an "unnatural" environment but treating "naturally" you will want to take the next few years (not 5 months) and research. It will have to be more than online searches and books. You will need to find the actual data, not just something you want to hear (I see this a lot!).


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 27, 2016)

Goat Whisperer said:


> x2!
> 
> Welcome to the forum
> Congratulations on your new farm-to-be! You must be thrilled
> ...


I thought Suzanne from the Tennessee Meat Goats site had a good article regarding that:

http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/organicGoats06.html


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## purplequeenvt (Oct 27, 2016)

I agree about the EF. I've had only a little experience with them, but I found them to be very parasite prone and fragile. 

With good breeding and management you CAN get your stock to a place where they are much more parasite resistant. It can take years though. We've had sheep for 16 years and just in the past 3 or 4 years have we reached the point where I can say that our flock needs minimal deworming. That is with close monitoring and pasture rotation.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 27, 2016)

That is a good article.  It reminds me of something our mentor told us when we were talking about something organic (I don't remember what).  He said if you want to do right about your livestock you need to consider there is "organic" and there is "reality".


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## babsbag (Oct 27, 2016)

I tried to raise "organic" bees... didn't work very well.


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## Bossroo (Oct 27, 2016)

Would you please give us better understanding of you, your abilities, family situation and their contribution to provide labor , reliable income sources, etc. . What are your soils, weather, types of pasture grasses to provide a carrying capacity for livestock, grain and their production yields . What is your reasoning of having dairy sheep for milk production ? With 5 or so springs on 7 acres, one would suspect moist soils which translates to more incidents of hoof rot and liver flukes in addition to the other parasites.  And as Mike says there is organic and then there is reality.  You will have to treat with commercial medications that contains specific amounts of active ingredients and potency as  " organic" ones are more often than not not reliable as to these tidbits. So, that being the case, you will leave some parasites that will eventually reproduce a resistance to organic dewormers.


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## mystang89 (Oct 27, 2016)

mysunwolf said:


> Please consider getting a different breed if you are looking to do things naturally (I assume this means with the least amount of chemical wormer possible, no antibiotics, less grain, and I'm sure there are more items I'm missing). I know some good people in the midwest raising Katahdins that milk almost as well as an EF. The Friesians are a high maintenance sheep that need a lot of grain to stay in condition when lambs are on them, even when you are not milking them. They also tend to have more health problems and are more fragile than meat breeds. If you have streams running through the property they are going to have more parasite and foot rot issues, but your pastures will look great.
> 
> That being said, I know some Icelandic/EF crosses that are the best of both worlds and might do well in your kind of situation. They are hardier than the high percentage EFs and milk almost as well. I'm currently developing a line of EF crosses that are very hardy and milk pretty well.
> 
> ...



Thanks much!  I will definitely have a look into other breeds including Katahdins.
I know there is a person who lives down the road that raises sheep and I have been planning on talking to them after the closing.  Personal experience speaks volumes over written articles especially when that person is from your area.

I have raised chickens, rabbits and pigeons up till now and while I know they are on a completely different level, it has made me except the fact that know matter how much you know your stuff, you will lose some animals.  It's a simple fact of life.  Hopefully this research will limit the amount that are lost.

I will make sure to look up the facebook groups.  I don't much care for FB but I can step over that block if it means learning more.

I found a few videos from the 90s about lambing, pre-lambing and more which were very informative thankfully.  Along with all the browsing I've been doing on this forum as well I hope to become more well rounded.  Thank you all for the welcome and please keep the tips coming!



Bossroo said:


> Would you please give us better understanding of you, your abilities, family situation and their contribution to provide labor , reliable income sources, etc. . What are your soils, weather, types of pasture grasses to provide a carrying capacity for livestock, grain and their production yields . What is your reasoning of having dairy sheep for milk production ? With 5 or so springs on 7 acres, one would suspect moist soils which translates to more incidents of hoof rot and liver flukes in addition to the other parasites.  And as Mike says there is organic and then there is reality.  You will have to treat with commercial medications that contains specific amounts of active ingredients and potency as  " organic" ones are more often than not not reliable as to these tidbits. So, that being the case, you will leave some parasites that will eventually reproduce a resistance to organic dewormers.



I think I came off as being completely against chemicals.  I am not, but the way I would like to start out and treatments I would wish to give the sheep and land would be organic (natural).  If that turns out to not be in the best interest of my sheep then I will do what needs to be done in order to save them.

As far as my capabilities are concerned I have 7 children who are going to be helping me and learning right along side of me.  I will be the stay at home dad taking care of everything.  My wife works so we have a reliable source of income.  The weather is typically a mild winter which can still dip down to the 20's.  Spring comes around late april/may with summer generally around 95.  As far as the type of pasture grasses, that is something which I will learn more about tomorrow but I do know that the man who owned it raised cattle for years.  I know that sheep and cattle eat two different things and I am not apposed to doing the work necessary to transition the field into something that is better suited for sheep.

I haven't taken any soil samples as the house is still his and I didn't want to do anything yet but since closing is tomorrow I've let myself go ahead and hope a bit.  The grain and their production yields is something which I honestly know nothing about so If you can help me there i would be most appreciative.


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## TAH (Oct 27, 2016)

I had two katahdin's.
I agree with the above but I will share my experience with sheep.
Peace was 4-5 when we got her and her lamb. We got them for meat and milk. 

I only milked her for a few days before we decided we liked goats milk better. Peace gave 1-1 1/2 cups a day (I never did weigh it in oz). We fed fodder, sprouted wheat, oats, and alfalfa pellets and free choice minerals and hay. Make sure you get sheep minerals. We fed all natural/organic and used herbal de-wormers and DE. Now I did the same for our goats and thought it worked good except we didn't run fecals on our sheep of goats so never ended up seeing if it worked or not. (I wish I would have known about running fecals on animals). We have our two sheep for 1 year and only trimmed there hooves every 3 months and wormed every 4 weeks. We lived in oregon and it is pretty wet here so parasites are a issue. Our pasture was a mix all different kinds of grasses, Oak trees, duggfure and blackberry's.


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## Bruce (Oct 27, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> I thought Suzanne from the Tennessee Meat Goats site had a good article regarding that:
> 
> http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/organicGoats06.html



Interesting article. How much of the goat "parts" translate to sheep? Things like "Unlike other livestock species, goats are very susceptible to stomach worms and coccidia oocysts"


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## norseofcourse (Oct 27, 2016)

Everyone's had really good points so far.  I started slow, with just 2 sheep, and am glad I did.  No matter how much you read, study and ask questions - when you get your sheep and you're staring at them and they're staring at you, both of you wondering, "what now?", you feel a bit lost (at least I did!).  And remember, your sheep didn't read any of the stuff you read.  But you learn what works, and you continue to ask questions and learn more stuff.

What are your goals?  Some milk to play around with for yourself, or some type of commercial operation?  Meat for your own use, or to sell lambs to others?

How much time do you have to devote to all this?  To me, that's a *big* consideration.  You can spend as little as a half hour a day feeding and watering - or major parts of days during times like lambing, fencing, vaccinations, milking, shearing, fixing fencing, hoof trimming, getting hay in, working on fencing, dealing with a sick or injured sheep, bad weather, etc...

I started with two pregnant ewes so I didn't have to worry about getting a ram right away.  I kept a ewe lamb, so I had 3 sheep lambing the next year, when I began learning to milk.  I learned a lot, and last year I did quite a bit of milking.  I only milked once a day, in the morning, and I occasionally skipped a day or so (simply didn't separate the lambs overnight on those days).  Still, it was difficult, getting up way early, before work, to have enough time to milk the sheep.  I think I lasted 3 months or so, and I did enjoy it, except for the 'up early' part.

I have also read that East Friesians need more care and feed.  I have Icelandics, as I wanted mllk, meat and wool (and because I am in a group that studies and re-creates history in the Middle Ages (SCA), and Icelandics have been around for centuries).  I also like their smaller size, the fact they browse as much as graze, and now that I have had them, I like their personality, too.  If breed didn't matter as much, and I was looking for milking sheep, I'd probably check into crosses like mysunwolf mentioned.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 27, 2016)

I avoided Facebook for the longest time but it is now one of my favorite sources of contacts.  Another resource is county and state fairs and shows as well as check out your state Universities. University of Tennessee (UT) has things going all year and one thing I found out early is that sheep people love to talk sheep and I have gotten several invitations out to look around.  We have herding dogs that have opened up a lot of doors for us.  We are getting our sheep from the same folks that helped us train our dogs and they also host a Herding Trial every year.  We have made many new friends and a major source of support in the last couple of years.

But like mentioned above, the University in your state can be a major help.  We arranged to meet the local extension agent when we first started our place and he brought in an expert with sheep from quite aways from us since he wasn't knowledgeable enough.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 27, 2016)

@Bruce goats and sheep are both particularly susceptible to worms. In fact I read recently that keeping alpacas with sheep and/or goats can cause problems with worms for the alpacas. Primarily because the alpacas use a communal pile but the others do not,  so they have more worm problems from grazing. Never thought of that. 

Anyway,  I think striving for organic is fantastic.  But like others have said,  it isn't always possible to raise animals completely organically.  There are people I know who use only organic practices with  their goats (and don't breed for parasite resistance) who have goats with a lot of worm and other issues. Sometimes it's important to break with organics and do what you need to do in order to have a healthy herd. 

I am also looking into getting sheep in the spring.  I want to go with Katahdins or Katahdin /dorper crosses. I'm interested in hearing what you learn as you do more research!


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## Southern by choice (Oct 27, 2016)

Mike CHS said:


> But like mentioned above, the University in your state can be a major help. We arranged to meet the local extension agent when we first started our place and he brought in an expert with sheep from quite aways from us since he wasn't knowledgeable enough.



Very true!
I just got home from our quarterly meeting. I am on the advisory committee for our county's extension service. (Dairy goat rep & poultry). I know our agent is awesome! 
Often an extension agent can really help with pasture planting, evaluation, soil analysis, nutritional values. They often have workshops. We did an udder care workshop for the extension services. They may have workshops on parasite management, marketing, nutrition. 

Those ponds are going to be problematic. 

We also prefer to do as much as possible to mimic a natural environment however things like vaccines are very important, having on hand certain things will be imperative. Glad to hear you will do what is best for the animal.


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## Baymule (Oct 27, 2016)

I am new to sheep too. We bought 4 bred ewes, Katahdin/Dorper crosses. I would suggest buying inexpensive sheep to start with, so if you kill one with inexperience, it won't be such a financial loss. While it would break my heart to lose one, it would hurt a lot more if we paid $800-$900 for one instead of the $220 we did pay. Start slow and low $$


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## TAH (Oct 27, 2016)

Baymule said:


> I am new to sheep too. We bought 4 bred ewes, Katahdin/Dorper crosses. I would suggest buying inexpensive sheep to start with, so if you kill one with inexperience, it won't be such a financial loss. While it would break my heart to lose one, it would hurt a lot more if we paid $800-$900 for one instead of the $220 we did pay. Start slow and low $$


We got ours for $90 each.


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 27, 2016)

Baymule said:


> I am new to sheep too. We bought 4 bred ewes, Katahdin/Dorper crosses. I would suggest buying inexpensive sheep to start with, so if you kill one with inexperience, it won't be such a financial loss. While it would break my heart to lose one, it would hurt a lot more if we paid $800-$900 for one instead of the $220 we did pay. Start slow and low $$


Yes, but pay for clean animals. Pay to get them tested for common diseases. You want to start out with a biosecure herd.


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## TAH (Oct 27, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Yes, but pay for clean animals. Pay to get them tested for common diseases. You want to start out with a biosecure herd.


Our sheep were tested. As so were our goats.


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## TAH (Oct 27, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Yes, but pay for clean animals. Pay to get them tested for common diseases. You want to start out with a biosecure herd.


Our sheep were tested. As so were our goats.


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## Bruce (Oct 28, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> @Bruce goats and sheep are both particularly susceptible to worms. In fact I read recently that keeping alpacas with sheep and/or goats can cause problems with worms for the alpacas. Primarily because the alpacas use a communal pile but the others do not,  so they have more worm problems from grazing. Never thought of that.



Hmmm. Wife was asking about routinely cleaning up the alpacas' outside latrine. I figure since it can be used as fertilizer directly with no need to compost, why put in the work to move it from "here" to "there" until we need it "somewhere else" since it is already in one place and not a particularly inconvenient one.

Am I risking parasite problems in the boys by doing that?? IF it ever stops raining, should I be moving it, maybe toss it in the veg garden? I would have to clean that out first. Kinda low priority at the moment given all the other things I need to do so I've been ignoring it.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 28, 2016)

Don't quote me on this but I think they'll stay away from it when they're grazing so    should be OK?  I don't know for sure though.


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## mystang89 (Oct 28, 2016)

norseofcourse said:


> Everyone's had really good points so far.  I started slow, with just 2 sheep, and am glad I did.  No matter how much you read, study and ask questions - when you get your sheep and you're staring at them and they're staring at you, both of you wondering, "what now?", you feel a bit lost (at least I did!).  And remember, your sheep didn't read any of the stuff you read.  But you learn what works, and you continue to ask questions and learn more stuff.
> 
> What are your goals?  Some milk to play around with for yourself, or some type of commercial operation?  Meat for your own use, or to sell lambs to others?
> 
> ...



I think you're right about starting small.  I know many people who went full force into something they didn't know well and ended up overwhelmed.  Lot of wasted money and didn't do any services to the animals either.  Two or 3 sheep at the beginning is probably going to be a good starting position.

Since I don't have a paying job I will be able to give as much time as is needed to the care of the sheep, in between the care of the children so I'm not too worried about that end.  My goals in all this is to provide for my family, that's it.  Profit isn't a goal, but if I end up making some money on it then fine, I won't throw the money away.  I want to be able to provide my family with milk, cheese, meat and warmth.  I know I can get more milk from goats but they are terrible to fence.  I can get more milk from cows but the growth to dispatch ratio is much longer than for sheep plus I can't make the cheeses I want nor the clothes I want from cows. (I tan hides as I don't like things going to waste.)

I did some more research specifically on the breed that I think would work for me and its true - East Friesians would not be a good match for me as a beginner.  I was looking at Icelandics and they are still a possibility but I also found the Assaf Sheep.  The are supposed to be more resilient than East Friesians and also be of stouter build (more meat) plus have more milk than Icelandics. The one LARGE downside that I see so far is that there is only one supplier in America that I have found which also means that the Law of Supply and Demand is going to kick my butt there.



Green Acres Farm said:


> Yes, but pay for clean animals. Pay to get them tested for common diseases. You want to start out with a biosecure herd.



Thank you for the tip.  That is definitely a must no matter where the animal comes from and also something that probably would have completely slipped my mind.



Southern by choice said:


> Very true!
> I just got home from our quarterly meeting. I am on the advisory committee for our county's extension service. (Dairy goat rep & poultry). I know our agent is awesome!
> Often an extension agent can really help with pasture planting, evaluation, soil analysis, nutritional values. They often have workshops. We did an udder care workshop for the extension services. They may have workshops on parasite management, marketing, nutrition.
> 
> ...



I have never really looked into the extension offices.  They all seem very difficult to get ahold of to me. That could just be because I see them as government offices and all government offices are crazy difficult for me to contact for some reason but if they are the experts in my area about my pasture then they are who I need to talk to.  I know enough about taking care of a yard for personal property, when to mow, how to keep green, what it needs and what the normal grasses are in it but when it comes to a 7 acre pasture its too much for me.  Its like walking into a forest and trying to grasp the entire thing in your mind.  Just won't happen for a beginner like me.  Time to look up the extention office.

Later today I will meet the sellers for the closing and at that time I will find out what the pasture consists of mainly.  I will bring that info back here as well.

There are no ponds on the property just the little springs.  I'm not saying that to argue I just want a clear picture of what it looks like.  In fact, when I go there for the final walk through today I will take a picture of it for everyone so I can get more ideas!

Thank you all very much for all the input.  I really truly appreciate all the assistance in getting a grasp on this!


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## purplequeenvt (Oct 29, 2016)

Bruce said:


> Hmmm. Wife was asking about routinely cleaning up the alpacas' outside latrine. I figure since it can be used as fertilizer directly with no need to compost, why put in the work to move it from "here" to "there" until we need it "somewhere else" since it is already in one place and not a particularly inconvenient one.
> 
> Am I risking parasite problems in the boys by doing that?? IF it ever stops raining, should I be moving it, maybe toss it in the veg garden? I would have to clean that out first. Kinda low priority at the moment given all the other things I need to do so I've been ignoring it.



They won't graze around their manure pile. You will always be able to locate their pile because there will be lovely tall, but uneaten grass around it. 

My llamas never had parasite issues, even when pastured with sheep.


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## purplequeenvt (Oct 29, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> I think you're right about starting small.  I know many people who went full force into something they didn't know well and ended up overwhelmed.  Lot of wasted money and didn't do any services to the animals either.  Two or 3 sheep at the beginning is probably going to be a good starting position.
> 
> Since I don't have a paying job I will be able to give as much time as is needed to the care of the sheep, in between the care of the children so I'm not too worried about that end.  My goals in all this is to provide for my family, that's it.  Profit isn't a goal, but if I end up making some money on it then fine, I won't throw the money away.  I want to be able to provide my family with milk, cheese, meat and warmth.  I know I can get more milk from goats but they are terrible to fence.  I can get more milk from cows but the growth to dispatch ratio is much longer than for sheep plus I can't make the cheeses I want nor the clothes I want from cows. (I tan hides as I don't like things going to waste.)
> 
> ...



Goats that are properly trained are not hard to fence at all. You would get a lot more milk for the input of feed and effort with a goat. 

If you are looking for a sheep that can provide milk and meat, try to find someone with milky Katahdins. If you are wanting wool/pelts as well, that gets a bit more complicated. Icelandics are one of the better options, but you have to get sheep from milking lines otherwise it's kind of a waste of time. Also, keep in mind that a sheep's lactation is not as long as a goat or a cow (my Jersey just dried off at 17 months in milk). 

I'd recommend starting with 3-5 ewes.


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## mystang89 (Oct 29, 2016)

Ok, so closing is done and we finally own our first farm.  I got these pictures yesterday when I was there.  I know that the grass is really tall in most of them and that goats would be better suited for eating that.  I still decided to take the pictures because it shows what vegetation is growing in the pasture for those of you who are of keener eye than myself.


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## Goat Whisperer (Oct 29, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> I know I can get more milk from goats but they are terrible to fence.


Glad you are starting small and thinking this through!

I had the complete opposite. 50 goats and not one gets out. 2 sheep? ALWAYS getting out. Finding them everywhere. They were sold after they had taken to running down the highway. Another member (who isn't on much anymore) who raises sheep, cattle,  and yaks (think she had a few goats) had the same issue. I think it depends on the animals, but don't let that myth sway your thinking.


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## Bruce (Oct 29, 2016)

congrats @mystang89 !!

Field looks like mine, some grass, lots o weeds.


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## mystang89 (Oct 29, 2016)

Bruce said:


> congrats @mystang89 !!
> 
> Field looks like mine, some grass, lots o weeds.


Sheep don't like weeds right ? Do that means i need to get the weeds gone ?


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 29, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> Sheep don't like weeds right ? Do that means i need to get the weeds gone ?


Goats LOVE weeds...


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## norseofcourse (Oct 29, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> Sheep don't like weeds right ? Do that means i need to get the weeds gone ?


Sheep _love_ most weeds!  Mine eat grass, weeds, shrubs, trees, vines... just about anything.  Some plants they will eat anytime; other plants they seem to like best at certain times of the year (maybe they taste different).

Some breeds of sheep are more 'browsers' like goats (including Icelandic and Katahdin).  The Storey Guide to Raising Sheep lists sheep that browse well, and sheep that don't.  Of course like everything, there are individual variations.  Sheep learn what to eat from their mom, and the lambs I raise here tend to browse a lot more actively than my ram, who was raised on a 'tamer' pasture.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 29, 2016)

Our Jacobs loved trees but they could also graze the grass like a lawnmower. LOL
Our goats love vines, leaves, trees yet they are finicky with weeds but love bermuda grass!


I would however get your extension agent out. You will need to identify poisonous plants and get them removed asap! 

One of our local agents in our sister county is a livestock agent  BUT in every class he teaches he tells people "you want to grow livestock? Then learn to grow your fields!" He has his first degree in horticulture! 

Congratulations on your new home/farm! 

I am curious if you are really looking at milk why not goats?
They are heavier producers. 
Never had sheep milk but I trust what @norseofcourse  says about her sheep milk!

We are a large family so goats make sense for us. We utilize about 2-3 gallons per day. The cheese is gone in a day or two.
My miniature Lamancha produces 7.5# per day ( that is just shy of 1 gallon) she just stays in milk as long as we need her.
I don't know what sheep produce, or length of lactation.
@norseofcourse what is typical for your sheep?


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## Latestarter (Oct 30, 2016)

Congrats on your new home-stead  Now the real fun (work) begins! You could always get a few of each... seriously... if nothing else, you can always eat what you choose not to continue with. And that way you'll have most of the weeds and bushy plants covered as well as the grasses. Fence it into 3 or 4 pasture areas and cycle them through one after the other about every month. Or keep one fallow between rotations so no field has animals in it back to back. That's essentially what I'm looking at doing here. Anyway, hope you'll keep us up to date as you progress... maybe consider starting a journal (hint hint)  and pics... lots of pics please!


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## mystang89 (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> I would however get your extension agent out. You will need to identify poisonous plants and get them removed asap!



I'm  going to make a list of things that i need to do and this is definitely going to be one of them. I want to see what it is they can offer.



Southern by choice said:


> I am curious if you are really looking at milk why not goats?



A couple of reasons. Some off the top of my head are that it is the most nutritious milk there is. It taste sweeter than other milks. Makes great yogurt, cheeses and it is possible to make butter from it as well.



Southern by choice said:


> We are a large family so goats make sense for us. We utilize about 2-3 gallons per day. The cheese is gone in a day or two.
> My miniature Lamancha produces 7.5# per day ( that is just shy of 1 gallon) she just stays in milk as long as we need her.
> I don't know what sheep produce, or length of lactation.



I have 7 children so we have a family of 9 and probably will have more in the future. I figure that if i have multiple ewes milked at the same time (say 2 during one time of the year and 2 during the time the other two aren't lactating that we would be covered fairly well? The sheeps lactation isn't as long as the goats or cow so thats why i was thinking about having them staggered. Of course i have no clue if that will be feasible.



Latestarter said:


> if nothing else, you can always eat what you choose not to continue with. And that way you'll have most of the weeds and bushy plants covered as well as the grasses. Fence it into 3 or 4 pasture areas and cycle them through one after the other about every month. Or keep one fallow between rotations so no field has animals in it back to back.



Starting with different options definitely might be a way to go. Multiple people have mentioned separating the pasture into different sections. I think that is good idea as well though even after looking up what "fallow"  is i still dont understand it. The journal is a great idea! I thought about doing that for my chickens and rabbits when i started but never did and i regret that because i dont habe a good memory so i feel many things i should remember are lost now lol.

Some real good news though is that my best friend has an aunt who raises sheep and she has offered to talk with me about it and even asked if i would like to come out and see her operation.


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## Mike CHS (Oct 30, 2016)

I think the Journals on the forum are one of the best tools there are for not only keeping track of what you are doing but they provide a perfect window for others doing or planning on doing similar things. I keep logs and spread sheets for major things but it is awful easy to log on to BYH at the end of the day and make a quick not of things going on.

I look forward to seeing yours.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

Not sure of your region but if you are in the South where it is hot/humid you will really want to learn about parasites!

Because @norseofcourse  didn't respond yet and I am impatient  I was looking at sheep milk production. Very interesting.

You may have seen these articles but I will post anyway.

Keep in mind that when you lamb the lambs will take all the milk til weaning or close to it. I noticed the different lengths of lactation as well. Clearly you will want an actual dairy breed of sheep. All sheep will produce milk but that lactation duration as well as volume is critical.

Sheep teats are not like goats so it would also be good to look at hand milk machines. 

Figuring out how much milk your family will utilize is very important. We are a family of 11. Three oldest have moved out but I understand volume and large families. 

I like this article a lot-
http://www.milkingsheep.com/sheep-milk-production/

This one is good too-
http://www.sheep101.info/dairy.html


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## norseofcourse (Oct 30, 2016)

@Southern by choice - I'm typing as fast as I can!  



Southern by choice said:


> I am curious if you are really looking at milk why not goats?
> They are heavier producers.
> Never had sheep milk but I trust what @norseofcourse  says about her sheep milk!
> 
> ...


I've never drank goat's milk, but from what people report here, some breeds of goats tend to have 'sweeter' milk than other breeds.  Or higher milkfat.  Sheep are said to have higher milk solids, so the yield of cheese is higher, but I haven't made enough cheese to make comparisons for mine, yet.

2015 was the year I did the most milking.  I milked for 14 weeks, but I'm sure I could have milked longer (got tired of getting up early enough to milk before work, and I was losing daylight, too).  How much longer?  Hard to say, but I know the lambs are still nursing occasionally into the fall.  From 3 sheep I was getting about 20 fluid ounces of milk per day in the beginning, and at the end I was still averaging 19 fluid ounces (edited to add: this was only milking once a day, in the morning, after separating the lambs for the night. The lambs got plenty of milk to grow well).  And one of those sheep was a first freshener who wasn't giving much (she averaged 2 to 3 ounces a day).

Overall I got about two cups of milk a day.  For just me, that's plenty.  I was only milking once a day, and I'm sure I wasn't able to milk them out fully.  For higher production, you could pull the lambs and bottle-raise them, and milk twice or three times a day.  My guess is milking Gracie and Rose alone, three times a day with no lambs on them, would give me at least a half gallon a day.

If you want to stagger breedings to have sheep in milk year round, Icelandics won't do it, they are seasonal breeders.  Not sure about Katahdins, but they'd probably be my next suggestion as milking sheep.

And as much as I love my sheep, I'd encourage you to check into goats as well.  Find a few people with different breeds and actually taste the milk (nice, fresh milk, from people who aren't keeping a buck in with the does).  If you get lucky you might even find a doe or two in milk for sale, and you can taste their milk to make sure you like it before buying them.

Good luck!


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## mystang89 (Oct 30, 2016)

Thanks! My wife has been wanting goats for a long time so i might get a male and female one i get some more info about them . 

I still want to keep the operation as small as possible though as i really don't want to get overwhelmed .


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

Giggling over here... if any of my goats gave me that they'd go to freezer camp 

That is a labor of love right there! 
I know sheep milk yields more cheese but how does it taste for drinking?

We milked 10 goats this year at peak we got 8 gallons per day.
Plenty to store cheese, have milk, make soap, feed our friends grower pigs and sadly we still dumped milk. The goats were different breeds- Dwarfs, mini, and Standards.
10 month lactation is ideal for goats. Some will short out but a well bred and proper milking habits from the start will help with extended lactation. One of our does milked for 19 months before we forcibly dried her off. Others may stay in lactation for 2 years.

No trying to sway you. If you want dairy sheep then go with it but considering your family size and needs that is ALOT of sheep you have to milk. A LOT!


Just be realistic and make sure your expectations line up.

This is from early this year it was morning milk- after evening milk it was 19+ lbs (that is over 2 gallons)


Southern by choice said:


> Of course no one is at peak yet and still early in lactation...
> 12 hour fill...
> 
> 1st jar-  Trouble f-1 50/50 mini 3lbs 3oz
> ...





Southern by choice said:


> Well update from the other morning...
> So evening milking was 10 lbs 2 0z - total for 24 hr= (9lb 1oz + 10lb 2oz) *19lbs 3 oz*


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## mysunwolf (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> ...Sheep teats are not like goats so it would also be good to look at hand milk machines.
> ...



When I went to select dairy ewes I selected the girls with "sausage teats" as they're called, they are actually just as large, and some are larger, than dairy goat teats! So selection, as usual, is crucial. These are East Friesians, of course. Most non-dairy breeds do have tiny little teats, including the Katahdins (I gave up milking them as it was too much effort to hand-milk those little teats and get only about a cup of milk a day per sheep).

When I was milking 3 low percentage EFs once a day starting when I weaned the lambs at 10-12 weeks, I got 0.5-1.5 quarts a day per sheep. This year, we are going to milk share: I'll pen the lambs up overnight, milk in the morning, then let the lambs back with the moms after that. My aim is to start when the lambs are about 4 weeks old. We will have 9 ewes/ewe lambs freshening in Feb/March so I'll have my choice of milking the calmest girls with the largest teats and most milk! The best milk ewes will stay in lactation for 5 months or more, but more commonly a ewe will start to produce such small quantities of milk after 3-4 months that it's no longer worth the work of getting them to the stand to milk it out.

It's really fun when more and more people begin milking sheep here on BYH


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## purplequeenvt (Oct 30, 2016)

I'd recommend brush hogging all your pastures this fall. After that, rotational grazing is the way to go, IMO. We graze a section and, after the sheep or cows are moved, we mow the pasture to cut down anything they didn't eat. We've really improved our pastures and almost completely gotten rid of the poison parsnip (invasive plant that causes chemical burns) in the last 5 years just by this method. 

I think that you will end up discovering that you won't get enough milk to do what you want to do with only a few sheep. Personally, I'm a sheep person all the way, not a goat person. Most goats drive me crazy (expect the newborn babies), BUT I think you should really consider goats or a cow if you are wanting a good quantity of milk. Maybe milk a few sheep to make the cheese that you want, but with 7 kids....they could go through a lot of milk! 

We have a small herd of cows, just 3 at the moment. 2 are beef heifers, but the 3rd is a Jersey that we bought from a nearby dairy. She is not a high producer, but she's perfect for what my family needs. At peak she was raising 1 1/2 calves (she shared raising a bottle calf with another Jersey we had), was milked only once a day and was giving 3-4 gallons. And the cream! She also just dried off after 17 months in milk. Her last calf was 1/2 Angus and that's what's bred to again. 

Technically a goat would be more economical.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

@mysunwolf  that is very interesting! It definitely makes sense to get an actual dairy breed of sheep. I am just shocked at the short lactation though. I guess sheep milk is just power packed to grow those lambs fast!   I have heard that hard cheeses are easier with sheep milk. 

I agree, it is encouraging when other sheep people are milking! 

I don't want to dissuade @mystang89  I just know what it takes to feed 9 children. I want to maximize my time and effort... animals take a lot of care. 

I love hearing about what you all do with your sheep milk! Really cool!


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## NH homesteader (Oct 30, 2016)

This is a really interesting thread. I am primarily a goat person (sheep are cool but goats are cooler lol),  but it's cool to hear from people milking all kinds of animals.  

The only two things I lament about goat milk are the difficulty in making butter and hard cheeses.  Although I think my butter problem is mostly not having enough milk.  So...  My solution is more goats.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

NH homesteader said:


> The only two things I lament about goat milk are the difficulty in making butter and hard cheeses.  Although I think my butter problem is mostly not having enough milk.  So...  My solution is more goats.



You need a cream separator for both goat and sheep milk if you want to make butter.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 30, 2016)

Well I'll have to save my pennies then!


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## mystang89 (Oct 30, 2016)

purplequeenvt said:


> I'd recommend brush hogging all your pastures this fall. After that, rotational grazing is the way to go, IMO. We graze a section and, after the sheep or cows are moved, we mow the pasture to cut down anything they didn't eat. We've really improved our pastures and almost completely gotten rid of the poison parsnip (invasive plant that causes chemical burns) in the last 5 years just by this method.
> 
> I think that you will end up discovering that you won't get enough milk to do what you want to do with only a few sheep. Personally, I'm a sheep person all the way, not a goat person. Most goats drive me crazy (expect the newborn babies), BUT I think you should really consider goats or a cow if you are wanting a good quantity of milk. Maybe milk a few sheep to make the cheese that you want, but with 7 kids....they could go through a lot of milk!



How often did you rotate your animals and then mow afterwards?  When you mowed was it with a mowing blade set about 3 1/2 to 4" depth or was it higher?  I have no problems mowing as that Is what I do for relaxation.  I've mowed 5 acres before with a 36" walk behind so it's really not a problem there lol.



Southern by choice said:


> @mysunwolf  that is very interesting! It definitely makes sense to get an actual dairy breed of sheep. I am just shocked at the short lactation though. I guess sheep milk is just power packed to grow those lambs fast!   I have heard that hard cheeses are easier with sheep milk.
> 
> I agree, it is encouraging when other sheep people are milking!
> 
> ...



You aren't dissuading me at all but I do love the amount of information.  More information means I can make a more well rounded decision and hopefully keep the "oops" down to a minimum.  I agree about using an actual dairy sheep.  I started out with wanting East Friesians as they are the de facto dairy sheep but after @mysunwolf mentioned their constitution problems I started to look up more information about them and found that she is completely right.  Those are not a good choice for me, especially as a beginner.  So I started looking up different breeds of milk sheep and found the Assaf Sheep which is a mix between the EF and the Awassi which are both milk sheep but the Awassi has much better constitution against parasites and disease.  The Assad definitely looks like the breed for me after looking up info but I can't find anyone except ONE person who sells them in the whole of the USA


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## norseofcourse (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Giggling over here... if any of my goats gave me that they'd go to freezer camp


So how much wool do you get from those goats, too?


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## norseofcourse (Oct 30, 2016)

I have a thread about my sheep milking:
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/sheep-milking-year-three-begins.29259/

It includes pictures during the 2015 summer showing the various teat sizes of the three sheep I was milking.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

*How much milk will you consume?*

This is the first place to start. You base the breed, and numbers all around that.
When we have someone wanting dairy goats that is my* FIRST* question! 
The reason is we breed Dwarfs, Miniatures, and Standards.
The production is different for each "size". 

The same transfers to sheep.



norseofcourse said:


> So how much wool do you get from those goats, too?


LOL - when we had our sheep it was not worth it. The shearing , cleaning, and finding someone to turn it into something (roving) was not worth it.  Again we only had 2 sheep. So not cost effective for us.

I'll eventually have some sheep again, but for freezer only.


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## purplequeenvt (Oct 30, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> How often did you rotate your animals and then mow afterwards?  When you mowed was it with a mowing blade set about 3 1/2 to 4" depth or was it higher?  I have no problems mowing as that Is what I do for relaxation.  I've mowed 5 acres before with a 36" walk behind so it's really not a problem there lol.
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't dissuading me at all but I do love the amount of information.  More information means I can make a more well rounded decision and hopefully keep the "oops" down to a minimum.  I agree about using an actual dairy sheep.  I started out with wanting East Friesians as they are the de facto dairy sheep but after @mysunwolf mentioned their constitution problems I started to look up more information about them and found that she is completely right.  Those are not a good choice for me, especially as a beginner.  So I started looking up different breeds of milk sheep and found the Assaf Sheep which is a mix between the EF and the Awassi which are both milk sheep but the Awassi has much better constitution against parasites and disease.  The Assad definitely looks like the breed for me after looking up info but I can't find anyone except ONE person who sells them in the whole of the USA



Frequency depends on how big we make the area/how many animals are there as well as the time of year and current growth rate of the grass. In an ideal rotational grazing system, the animals would be in a smaller area and would be moved daily. In our "real world" situation, with 2 of us working full time and the other 2 busy with work and school, we don't have the ability to move fencing every day. We try to make areas large enough to last 5-7 days.  

There is really no reason for you not to start with EF if that is your breed of choice. You just need to be aware of the breed's weaknesses and adjust accordingly. Starting with only a few lets you keep a closer eye on them as you learn their quirks.


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## mysunwolf (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> You need a cream separator for both goat and sheep milk if you want to make butter.



All right, last add-on I swear... certain individual sheep and/or certain sheep breeds have milk that separates after a day or two in the fridge like cow's milk! I made sheep butter last year and it was wonderful. Mind, with this "natural" separating, it's impossible to receive all of the cream that's in the milk, (certainly there is less separation than with cow's milk), but you still get enough for making butter--one ewe had cream that separated out to about 50% of the total milk volume.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

mysunwolf said:


> All right, last add-on I swear... certain individual sheep and/or certain sheep breeds have milk that separates after a day or two in the fridge like cow's milk! I made sheep butter last year and it was wonderful. Mind, with this "natural" separating, it's impossible to receive all of the cream that's in the milk, (certainly there is less separation than with cow's milk), but you still get enough for making butter--one ewe had cream that separated out to about 50% of the total milk volume.


We get that too but without a cream separator it really isn't worth the time.
This is Millie's milk-


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## mystang89 (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> *How much milk will you consume?*
> 
> This is the first place to start. You base the breed, and numbers all around that.
> When we have someone wanting dairy goats that is my* FIRST* question!
> ...



We generally go through about 2 gallons of milk a week.  That is with us being conservative with the use.  In other words, it goes in cereal and foods such as smashed potatoes but there generally isn't any pouring in cups for the simply pleasure of drinking it.  I'd like to change this lol.  From reading on Assafs you milk about 5-7 lbs per day which is a bit under a gal. Take this with a grain of salt as I of course have never milked or seen a sheep milk in my entire life lol.



purplequeenvt said:


> Frequency depends on how big we make the area/how many animals are there as well as the time of year and current growth rate of the grass. In an ideal rotational grazing system, the animals would be in a smaller area and would be moved daily. In our "real world" situation, with 2 of us working full time and the other 2 busy with work and school, we don't have the ability to move fencing every day. We try to make areas large enough to last 5-7 days.



So would you say that it would be better to have an area that was bigger than what their needs were or smaller with more aggressive rotation?  Also, is there a guide to how big the area should be for a possible expanding herd?



mysunwolf said:


> All right, last add-on I swear... certain individual sheep and/or certain sheep breeds have milk that separates after a day or two in the fridge like cow's milk! I made sheep butter last year and it was wonderful. Mind, with this "natural" separating, it's impossible to receive all of the cream that's in the milk, (certainly there is less separation than with cow's milk), but you still get enough for making butter--one ewe had cream that separated out to about 50% of the total milk volume.



It's my understanding that you can still drink the milk even without the cream being separated from it right?  Just makes it a bit thicker?


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> From reading on Assafs you milk about 5-7 lbs per day which is a bit under a gal.


That is great!
How long is lactation?
Also I imagine that is a very heavy producing sheep. 
Find out from the breeders what their sheep are actually producing.

Are Assafs pretty docile? 
Very interesting!


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## purplequeenvt (Oct 30, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> We generally go through about 2 gallons of milk a week.  That is with us being conservative with the use.  In other words, it goes in cereal and foods such as smashed potatoes but there generally isn't any pouring in cups for the simply pleasure of drinking it.  I'd like to change this lol.  From reading on Assafs you milk about 5-7 lbs per day which is a bit under a gal. Take this with a grain of salt as I of course have never milked or seen a sheep milk in my entire life lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think it would be best to have more area than they need, but move them before they are done. You don't want them to eat the grass down too much. 

I couldn't tell you what size to make the area because so much depends on how many sheep you are grazing and the type of pasture it is.


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## mystang89 (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> That is great!
> How long is lactation?
> Also I imagine that is a very heavy producing sheep.
> Find out from the breeders what their sheep are actually producing.
> ...



The information I have been able to find either through the internet or through talking to people has been this.

Good Constitution (resistant to Parasites and other diseases that East Friesians aren't
Lactation period 8-10 months
about 5-7 lbs milk per day
Keep the weight very well (though the person I talked to did have them on grain during the lambing.  Did say they were on pasture at all times
In the time they've been with Sheep they've had 1 problem with birthing and that was with 1 foot in and 1 foot out.  Take that for what its worth.  Said he had around 400 sheep.
Temperament - Docile
Take very well to guard dogs
typical size is 350 - 380 lbs (I don't remember if that was a ram, an ewe or both.  I suspect Ram but again, I'm not sure.  Sorry)
It seems like something that I would like to start with but I'm the type of person who likes to double check his information so if there is anyone out there that has a different experience or knows something else about them please speak up.  I'd be happy to hear it.


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## norseofcourse (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> I know sheep milk yields more cheese but how does it taste for drinking?


Forgot to answer this part - mine give delicious, sweet milk


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## Bossroo (Oct 30, 2016)

I would recommend that you contact your County Extention Service for specific recommendation for your farm.  The Assaf breed of sheep requires intensive management proceedures  to yield of milk that is being claimed.  From syncronizing heat cycles with hormone treatment to artificial insemination that requires a Vet. to do due to the sheeps' cervix structure and very low pregnancy success rate.  It also requires weaning the lambs at birth and bottle raising them, then feeding them grains and very good pasture feed and / or feedlot to get them to market weight. Then there is the shearing of their wool every year and finding a sheep shearer is very hard and very expensive. It will cost more to shear the sheep than what the wool is worth.  After reading of your large family and their needs as well as the size of your farm and it's management.  I would consider in buying a smaller Jersey cow for milk production and their milk has some of the largest fat content of the dairy cows, breed her AI to an Angus bull and have her raise the calf ( you can also buy another drop calf to raise along with her own ) for your meat needs.  I would highly recommend that you Google the Dorper Sheep and read about them as they are now fairly common and produce a large quantity and quality  of meat as they compete very well in carcass taste competition with the Southdown and Suffolk ( traditional winners )  in a very short period of time.  They are very docile and easy to handle and contain in their pastures. They both graze as well as browse so they take advantage of most vegetation available to them.   They breed out of season and the ewes are very heavy milkers so you can get and raise 3 lamb crops in 2 years.  They shed their wool, so shearing is of little concern. Dorper hides are currently are of the best quality and command the best price of all sheep.  I hope that this helps.


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> We get that too but without a cream separator it really isn't worth the time.
> This is Millie's milk-
> View attachment 23675


How many days old is that?

Mine never got like that, but I threw it out on day 3.


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## Bruce (Oct 30, 2016)

mystang89 said:


> A couple of reasons. Some off the top of my head are that it is the most nutritious milk there is. It taste sweeter than other milks. Makes great yogurt, cheeses and it is possible to make butter from it as well.



You can most certainly make butter from goat milk. We have purchased it at the health food store. VERY white compared to cow milk. No idea how easy or what a gallon of goat milk will yield in butter.


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## frustratedearthmother (Oct 30, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> Mine never got like that, but I threw it out on day 3.


 ARGH!   Why did you throw it out???    Was it 'off'?

We routinely drink milk that is 10 days old and it's still delicious.  After that, I will give the dogs/pigs/chickens a treat just because I have the extra milk to share.  I'm putting a quart a day in the freezer now for when I stop milking.


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## NH homesteader (Oct 30, 2016)

Eek yeah I keep it for up to 7 days usually before I give it to the animals.  Sometimes up to 10.although it's rare that milk lasts that  long here,


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

Green Acres Farm said:


> How many days old is that?
> 
> Mine never got like that, but I threw it out on day 3.


You will be surprised!

1 day!


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> You will be surprised!
> 
> 1 day!


That is VERY impressive!!!! 

Did you ever get it tested to learn the butterfat %?

Maybe mine wasn't nearly like that because the doe I milked was a Saanan and they are known for their low butterfat content.


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 30, 2016)

frustratedearthmother said:


> ARGH!   Why did you throw it out???    Was it 'off'?



Raw


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## frustratedearthmother (Oct 30, 2016)

All of my milk is raw- keeps great!  Not trying to pick on you at all- and of course you should do what feels right for you - just letting you know that in most cases raw milk stores well and tastes great for a week or more.


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## Southern by choice (Oct 30, 2016)

frustratedearthmother said:


> All of my milk is raw- keeps great!  Not trying to pick on you at all- and of course you should do what feels right for you - just letting you know that in most cases raw milk stores well and tastes great for a week or more.



Ours doesn't last that long in the fridge either. 5 days and it starts tasting different. I really think it is because we open and close the fridge probably a hundred times a day. Big family and I swear they are like hobbits. Fast metabolism means they eat every 10-15 minutes.  Then there is the lets open fridge and look around so we can say "there is nothin' good to eat" close fridge then open it again and pull out something.

I will have a separate milk fridge this year. 

Our new fridge broke twice already. Putting 4 gallons of fresh milk at 100 degrees 2x day makes the whole fridge warm. We learned this the hard way. Got it tweaked now.


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## Green Acres Farm (Oct 30, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> I really think it is because we open and close the fridge probably a hundred times a day. Big family and I swear they are like hobbits. Fast metabolism means they eat every 10-15 minutes.



I hear you! My grandmother (who only had 2 kids) commented on how our fridge is always open because there is ALWAYS someone opening the fridge.


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## Latestarter (Oct 31, 2016)

My mom always gave me hell for opening the fridge  Like mother like son... I carried the same thing over onto my kids. My son has out grown it as he will open the fridge door to grab something and leave the door wide open while he walks over to the sink or furthest counter with whatever it was he took out, then saunter back over to close the fridge door. Makes the hackles on the back of my neck stand straight up! When I was working, folks would open the fridge door in the break room, leave it open and just walk away. Drove me positively nuts.


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## mystang89 (Oct 31, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> My mom always gave me hell for opening the fridge  Like mother like son... I carried the same thing over onto my kids. My son has out grown it as he will open the fridge door to grab something and leave the door wide open while he walks over to the sink or furthest counter with whatever it was he took out, then saunter back over to close the fridge door. Makes the hackles on the back of my neck stand straight up! When I was working, folks would open the fridge door in the break room, leave it open and just walk away. Drove me positively nuts.



Lol,  leaving the fridge open is the new form of ac! Didn't you know that ? !


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## Baymule (Oct 31, 2016)

Not only close the frige, but turn off the water. No letting the water run while brushing teeth! No Sir-ree! Not at my house!


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## frustratedearthmother (Oct 31, 2016)

Southern by choice said:


> Ours doesn't last that long in the fridge either. 5 days and it starts tasting different. I really think it is because we open and close the fridge probably a hundred times a day.



I am lucky to have a separate fridge for it that only gets opened a couple times a day.  Just me and DH, so don't have to fuss at kiddos to 'shut that fridge door!'


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## Bruce (Oct 31, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> My mom always gave me hell for opening the fridge  Like mother like son... I carried the same thing over onto my kids. My son has out grown it as he will open the fridge door to grab something and leave the door wide open while he walks over to the sink or furthest counter with whatever it was he took out, then saunter back over to close the fridge door. Makes the hackles on the back of my neck stand straight up! When I was working, folks would open the fridge door in the break room, leave it open and just walk away. Drove me positively nuts.



Put a killawatt on the refrigerator and let them see how much it costs to run the thing. I doubt a single incident of "door open for a couple of minutes" will register on a less than aware/caring person but maybe the additive number will.


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