# Cocci Prevention / Treatment Thread



## elevan (May 24, 2011)

I am editing this original post to provide the following information right from the beginning.  (Please continue to use the thread to ask questions regarding coccidia prevention and treatment though.)



> _This is a sampling of what I've "collected" from this site, my vet and other avenues (seems to be the most consistent info):
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> *Di-Methox 40% Injectible (given orally)*
> The dosage we use is 1cc per 5# on day 1
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My original post was:
_Has anyone ever heard of or used this as a prevention measure for Cocci?




			Our veterinarian recommends that they receive Albon or Corid for one week beginning at about three or four weeks of age and again if they are very stressed, such as when separated from their mother.
		
Click to expand...

I know the preventative measure using Di-Methox.  I am just curious about other prevention techniques._


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## helmstead (May 24, 2011)

Albon is the brand name for dimethox 

CoRid is amprollium, a thiamine inhibitor, which also works, but not always as effectively as dimethox.  I use CoRid in conjunction with dimethox when I have a particularly nasty cocci bloom.  Fenbendazole can also be used in conjunction with either sulfa as an antiprotozoal.


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## elevan (May 24, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Albon is the brand name for dimethox


Well *duh* I knew that!! I obviously wasn't thinking


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## elevan (May 24, 2011)

So since I started this thread I might as well put the dimethox dosage here...

Di-Methox:  1cc per 5# on day 1, 1cc per 10# days 2-5 for prevention.


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## 20kidsonhill (May 24, 2011)

We use corid at three weeks of age, and send home a 5 day dosage with each kid that is sold.


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## DonnaBelle (May 24, 2011)

The problem right now is you can't get the di-methox 40% concentration.  All you can get is the 12.5 which means you have to give 3 times as much.  

The **** stuff tastes awful, (yes, I touched my tongue to it) and the goaties HATE it.  I am in the middle of a regiman for all my goats since our rainfall has been about 24 inches in the last 6 weeks, and more on the way.  

I called the people that make the stuff, they're supposed to start making it again end of May.  I sure hope so....

DonnaBelle


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## 20kidsonhill (May 24, 2011)

sulfa-dimethoxine 12.5 % is only 36 bucks for gallon.  Really no big deal that you use 3x the dosage as far as cost goes. You have a whole gallon to work with. 

We have never used it at the high dosage recommended on here.


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## DonnaBelle (May 24, 2011)

The cost doesn't concern me the taste does.  Or should I say the goats are concerned about the taste? LOL.

The less I have to get down them the better.  They spit, hack, cough and give me really dirty looks when they get the Di-Methox.

If I can keep them from getting blown away this afternoon, they are on their 2nd to last dose.

We have been told the tornados are just about a sure thing this late afternoon.  GEEEZ.... 

As Rosanna Rosannadanna said:  It's always something!!

DonnaBelle


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## helmstead (May 24, 2011)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> The cost doesn't concern me the taste does.  Or should I say the goats are concerned about the taste? LOL.
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> The less I have to get down them the better.  They spit, hack, cough and give me really dirty looks when they get the Di-Methox.


Try mixing the powder with 1 1/2 cups of water in a mason jar - keep refrigerated.  This = the 40% injectable, but isn't shelf stable and will go bad eventually (ie become less effective).


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## elevan (May 24, 2011)

I have to say that I get Albon from the vet and have used it on several goats for Cocci and once for an infection.  They love the taste of it and it's not expensive.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (May 24, 2011)

I have been using the herbal formula GI Sooth, from Fir Meadow, which is a cocci prevention and treatment, as well as treatment for scours. It must be working because my 4 wk old kids are doing great with no signs whatsoever of any scours, and they were born just at the nastiest wettest, worm/cocci blooming time of the year.


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## helmstead (May 24, 2011)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> I have been using the herbal formula GI Sooth, from Fir Meadow, which is a cocci prevention and treatment, as well as treatment for scours. *It must be working* because my 4 wk old kids are doing great with no signs whatsoever of any scours, and they were born just at the nastiest wettest, worm/cocci blooming time of the year.


Get a fecal...make sure you don't have subclinical.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (May 24, 2011)

I'm planning to.


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## helmstead (May 24, 2011)

Do let us know how it's working based on the fecal samples!


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## Goatherd (Jun 3, 2011)

Being new to this, is it just a given that new kids be treated for cocci?  Should a fecal be run before hand?


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 3, 2011)

I think most of the main people on here are treating for cocci at 3 weeks of age, some are treating 5 days on and 21 days off for several months.

We treat at 3 weeks of age, then we wait and see how it goes, at the first sign of them looking pot-bellied(rounded), or any scouring. We treat again.  This year we had to treat again, around 28 days after the first treatment. We had a very wet spring. We don't run fecals for cocci, we just assume it is and treat for it with our kids. After around 5 or 6 months of age, it can get a little trickier, because they can start to carry a worm load on top of cocci, so it is harder to know which one is the problem .


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## elevan (Jun 3, 2011)

I plan to do preventative treatments after having just had my first cocci outbreak.  It was really bad   

My vet suggested the preventative treatment (it was that bad) for the future.


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## elevan (Jul 10, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I think most of the main people on here are treating for cocci at 3 weeks of age, some are treating 5 days on and 21 days off for several months.


Reviving this thread with some more information 

This is what I've "collected" from this site, my vet and other avenues (seems to be the most consistent info):

*Di-Methox 40% Injectible (given orally)*
The dosage we use is 1cc per 5# on day 1
1cc per 10# days 2-5 for prevention. 
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Di-Methox 12.5% (given orally)*
3.15 ml per 5# of goat day 1
3.15 ml per 10# of goat days 2-5 for prevention

*Albon Suspension*
2.5cc per 5# on day 1
1.25cc per 5# days 2-5 for prevention

*CoRid 9.6% Liquid (undiluted)* 
2.5 ml per 10# for 5 days

*Sulmet Drinking Water Solution 12.5% (undiluted)*
1 ml per 5# day 1
1 ml per 10# day 2-5


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## arabianequine (Jul 10, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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Where can I get the Di-Methox 40%? Do you need a prescription?


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## arabianequine (Jul 10, 2011)

I believe it was neomycin sulfate that my vet gave for diarrhea.


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## elevan (Jul 11, 2011)

arabianequine said:
			
		

> I believe it was neomycin sulfate that my vet gave for diarrhea.


One typical treatment for bacterial scours.




> Where can I get the Di-Methox 40%? Do you need a prescription?


No Rx needed.
You can get it here:  http://www.jefferslivestock.com/search.asp?camid=LIV&ss=dimethox&search-submit=GO


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## arabianequine (Jul 11, 2011)

Darn I wish I would have known that sooner. I just placed an order with them. I got some vit. b complex. I was so excited. I been looking forever now everywhere for some. 

A Glenoma found me some....and very much appreciated.


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## arabianequine (Jul 11, 2011)

Oh yeah it seemed as though Jeffers was slow on shipping. Anyone else have that problem? This is the only time I have ordered from them so not sure if it was a normal thing.


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## Hillsvale (Jul 11, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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Our vet just sent my two littlest one through the Albon route when one of the bucklings was very ill (and subsequently died), the dosage he told me to use was 0.4 ML per kilo of weight for 5 days.... the remaining twin now has poopy pellets which she never really had before and is hungrier and more vocal than ever...


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## DonnaBelle (Jul 11, 2011)

Today I spoke to the breeder I bought my first goats from.  She bottle feeds all her kids and has started using a product she gets from Valley Vet called 

Pro Bac B.

It is a milk replacer with cocci prevention in it.  She said she really likes it.

I'm just FYI this for all you to think about, not recommending.

DonnaBelle


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## Hillsvale (Jul 11, 2011)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> Today I spoke to the breeder I bought my first goats from.  She bottle feeds all her kids and has started using a product she gets from Valley Vet called
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> Pro Bac B.
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that sounds like a smart replacer... 

learning, learning....


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Jul 11, 2011)

I don't know if all the diarrhea I have seen in my goats is from cocci, but after a 2 week long rainy spell several goats came down with some diarrhea, so I gave them herbal GI Sooth (cocci prevent and treatment) from www.firmeadow.com and only one dose was all I needed for everything to dry up. I should have been giving it to them to prevent it since it was rainy, but I was being lazy.


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## elevan (Jul 11, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

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_1 kilogram = 2.20462262 pounds    /    2 kilograms = approximately 5#_

So your vet had you dosing at less than 1ml (0.8ml to be exact) per 5#...that's really low imo.

The Albon Suspension dosage I gave above is from my vet...it's what I use.  IDK...maybe a higher dose is needed in my area??  Either that or your vet is under dosing which _could_ create a resistance issue???


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## helmstead (Jul 11, 2011)

DonnaBelle said:
			
		

> Today I spoke to the breeder I bought my first goats from.  She bottle feeds all her kids and has started using a product she gets from Valley Vet called
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> Pro Bac B.
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You can achieve the same effect, without using a replacer, with Deccox-M which is a product intended to be added to milk since babies don't eat enough medicated feed to get the recommended levels of Deccox.  GREAT PRODUCT.


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## Hillsvale (Jul 12, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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Well I don't know, I'm an accountant and he's the vet.... he went to veterinary school after all so if he tells me a dosage I would have to trust him, he did after all see the fecal sample.


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## elevan (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

> Well I don't know, I'm an accountant and he's the vet.... he went to veterinary school after all so if he tells me a dosage I would have to trust him, he did after all see the fecal sample.


Vets go to school to learn about treating domestic animals (dogs, cats, etc).  Training in livestock is not part of the program.  If they want that they have to take extra training and / or apprentice with a livestock vet.

I'm only suggesting that you ask some questions of your vet to make sure you're getting the very best care for your livestock.  You could have a great domestic vet who isn't really livestock savvy but is helping you because he cares.  If that's the case they are probably looking at a manual to get dosages and not experience.


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## Hillsvale (Jul 12, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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Actually in my neck of the woods it is part of their training... he a large animal livestock vet, he was actually trained at the Atlantic Vet College in PEI which is renound in their large animal training and care, the largest in Eastern Canada. 

This clinic prides themselves on being 'primarily' livestock.  and he tends to many people with goats which is why I sourced him out and drove the distance I did for a fecal test... obviously taking livestock to a small animal vet would be ridiculous unless you had absolutely no other option.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillsvale, with you being in BC, there is probably a different dosage with the drugs. I think if you talked to different people around the US, you would probably find different dosages and those dosages work just fine for them. Getting dosages from the internet is a great way to start but I would verify with your local goat vet or very knowledgeable breeder. Hey, if in your area, Ivomec still works at 1cc per 50 lbs, why dose at 1cc per 25 lbs!


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## Hillsvale (Jul 12, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Hillsvale, with you being in BC, there is probably a different dosage with the drugs. I think if you talked to different people around the US, you would probably find different dosages and those dosages work just fine for them. Getting dosages from the internet is a great way to start but I would verify with your local goat vet or very knowledgeable breeder. Hey, if in your area, Ivomec still works at 1cc per 50 lbs, why dose at 1cc per 25 lbs!


Agreed, except I am in NS ... the opposite coast! Sort of the distance from Boston to California... was are actually only a few hours from Boston and get very similar weather. 

Goats are really just beginning to get big here so I would tend to stick to the vet rather than a breeder... he seemed a pretty knowledgable guy and is in his thirties so not so far out of school that the learning and updating is still fairly "easy" for lack of better words.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 12, 2011)

We are here in virginia and not using nearly as high a dosage as what is being recommended on here.  Our dosage seems to be working just fine for us.  But our kids are also on medicated feed, so it is possible, it is working with that to keep things under control


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## elevan (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

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I meant no insult and hope you didn't take as such.  I just know that there are some on this forum that are using a domestic vet to get medicines and dosages because they don't have a livestock vet acquainted with goats.

Since goats are fairly new to your area I'd say you probably don't have a resistance issue and how lucky are you that you don't have to use quite so much medicine to get the job done    And lucky that your vets training includes large animal livestock.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

> Agreed, except I am in NS ... the opposite coast! Sort of the distance from Boston to California... was are actually only a few hours from Boston and get very similar weather.
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 sorry about that. For some reason I saw BC instead of NS. I will blame it on being tired from working yesterday. On Mondays I start work at 4am and usually work a 12 hour day. Needless to say, I'm still pretty tired on Tuesday.


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## Hillsvale (Jul 12, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

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Awww it was funny!


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## Goatmasta (Jul 12, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Hillsvale, with you being in BC, there is probably a different dosage with the drugs. I think if you talked to different people around the US, you would probably find different dosages and those dosages work just fine for them. Getting dosages from the internet is a great way to start but I would verify with your local goat vet or very knowledgeable breeder. Hey, if in your area, Ivomec still works at 1cc per 50 lbs, why dose at 1cc per 25 lbs!


The reason you wouldn't dose @ 1cc/50lbs is resistance.  That is why safe guard is no longer effective.


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## elevan (Jul 12, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

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I want clarification for this thread...
Goatmasta -  are you saying that you too believe that Hillsvale's vet recommended too low of a dose?...


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## ksalvagno (Jul 12, 2011)

I was just giving an example. Just because a drug works at a certain dosage for you, doesn't mean that the same drug doesn't work at a lower dosage for me.  If Ivomec is working succesfully for me at 1cc per 50 lbs, then why would I change that? Just like Safeguard doesn't work for many people anymore but it is still working on my farm and I know because I did fecals before and after.


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## arabianequine (Jul 12, 2011)

@ hillsvale 

Just wondering in hindsight would a higher dose helped save the twin that passed away...or was it already too late by the time you got the vets?

@ elevan you mean low or long?


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## Hillsvale (Jul 12, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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How about I answer something that suits me well, first off resistance happens as a result of repeated underdosing meds to a living thing whether human or animal. I am a strong proponent of resolving issues naturally and don't randomly medicate my animals because someone else tells me that my goat, pig, sheep... whatever is XYZ age and I must administer (name your med).

The twin is doing very well, she is happy, active and her poops are pellets for the first time since I got her. I think like everything else a hands on approach is best, my vet tested her feces, why is it so hard to understand and or believe that a trained professional who examined a sample and gave me the meds and suggested follow-up could be wrong. No offence intended but I would rather take hands on in person diagnosis and treatment than a herd owner who is on the other end of a computer. I value this site and appreciate the thoughts of others but I'll take someones trained personal advice first for the health of my various herds.


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## Hillsvale (Jul 12, 2011)

arabianequine said:
			
		

> @ hillsvale
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Hi A; I didn't have an opportunity to dose the other twin, by the time I did my thing (there is another thread), went to all the farm stores and two other vets... and finally managed a fecal sample of the poor boy... tossed work and meetings for the day and went in the complete opposite direction to where I should have been going (work), waited, waited waited for the sample and went back hme the buckling was dead. Less than 24 hours from onset that was noticable at least to me (other than the runny butt)


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## arabianequine (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

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Thats what I thought....sorry for your loss!


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## Goatmasta (Jul 12, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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I was commenting on the ivomec dosage.  As far as the albon goes there is no way to tell unless you know what strength the albon was mixed at. Some Vets mix the albon themselves so you need to know how it was mixed. Not all albon is created equal. This is why I would only recommend albon in a pinch.  You just can't give dosage advice on albon.


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## arabianequine (Jul 12, 2011)

Another ?

What does using the di-methox do exactly prevent and/or treat cocci or both?


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## helmstead (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

> I think like everything else a hands on approach is best, my vet tested her feces, why is it so hard to understand and or believe that a trained professional who examined a sample and gave me the meds and suggested follow-up could be wrong. No offence intended but I would rather take hands on in person diagnosis and treatment than a herd owner who is on the other end of a computer. I value this site and appreciate the thoughts of others but I'll take someones trained personal advice first for the health of my various herds.


Good luck to you then. (coming from a trained professional goat producer)


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## helmstead (Jul 12, 2011)

arabianequine said:
			
		

> Another ?
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Both, sort of.  You use it as a preventive treatment in kids...or a clinical treatment for active cases.

Deccox, Rumensin...coccistats are true prevention via medicated feeds...but they also don't substitute sulfas.


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## arabianequine (Jul 12, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

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I am sure I will have kids someday lol. 

So I should have the di-methox on hand as well as? Deccox or Rumensin too? Do I need sulfa too?

Right now I have 3 does that I believe are pregnant and in late stages probably due in July/August. 

Should I use any of these on them now? Is it safe for pregnant goats?

They don't have diarrhea but I have another thread under feeding goats section named iron....and I thought the 2 boer does gums looked a bit pale not terribly bad just not as pink as my toggs. I have wormed some in May and this last sat. but both times with horse paste. I used ivermectin the first time x2 their weight for the dose. The safe guard I just did a few days ago I did that x3 their weight. 

I do plan on getting some ivermax pouron here soon. 

I did get an iron supplement yesterday from my vet that I will be also giving the next few days also. 

They all seem fine and don't seem sick. Poop is pellets and normal looking.


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## Snowhunter (Jul 12, 2011)

I just wanted to pop in and mention the farm I got my 2 LaMancha/Nubian goats from uses CoRid for thier cocci prevention, on all thier kids, regardless. 

Here, we don't. Do I have meds on hand if we have an outbreak? Yes. We are trying to build up a resistant herd of goats, so things are on a case by case basis, as needed. Would we go to a preventative program if necessary? Yes, but I hope we never have to. I won't let my animals suffer needlessly, but ones that don't do well with our methods of husbandry won't be here long. I love my goats, but gotta keep our overall/long term goals in mind as well.


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## Hillsvale (Jul 12, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

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Obviously if you are a trained professional and a herd owner there is a difference between that and that of the average backyard owner (such as myself) and as mentioned I wasn't trying to offend and love the advice which helps me determine where to turn next (or whether I am panicking needlessly). I was trying to clarify to Elevan that I believe trained advice is best and if its in person (testing comes to mind) it most certainly better than on line. It just makes sense to take the advice of the vet who was personally dealing with my issue than someone on line who was not. Honestly if I had someone locally who had the experience that many of you do whom I could have called on, who deal with little goaties on a daily basis then that is a whole other proposition again


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## helmstead (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillsvale said:
			
		

> Obviously if you are a trained professional and a herd owner there is a difference between that and that of the average backyard owner (such as myself) and as mentioned I wasn't trying to offend and love the advice which helps me determine where to turn next (or whether I am panicking needlessly). I was trying to clarify to Elevan that I believe trained advice is best and if its in person (testing comes to mind) it most certainly better than on line. It just makes sense to take the advice of the vet who was personally dealing with my issue than someone on line who was not. Honestly if I had someone locally who had the experience that many of you do whom I could have called on, who deal with little goaties on a daily basis then that is a whole other proposition again


The problem you will come around to seeing is that vets have less of a vested interest in really studying goats - because until VERY recently, goats were a 2nd class livestock, rarely owned as pets and as such, VETS get about 1 week on them in school.  Seriously.  Other than the vets who service BREEDERS who self-fund studies on parasites - most vets just turn to their outdated Goat Medicine book for dosages, etc.  (you can buy your own for about $100 on Amazon)

So, in most cases, you're better off calling a seasoned producer in Texas than you would be hanging on the advice of your average vet.  

Everyone here is here to HELP.  Poo pooing their willingness to do so - offense intended or not - does not make any of them feel better about taking the TIME to type out replies.


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## helmstead (Jul 12, 2011)

arabianequine said:
			
		

> I am sure I will have kids someday lol.
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If your goats are not clinically sick...NO, you don't need to treat them for cocci.  It's quite normal to see cocci on a fecal for adult goats.

Deccox & Rumensin are found in medicated feeds.  Adults can be given these, more important for kids though.  Dimethox IS a sulfa.

Your anemia problem is more likely worms, which are not treated with any of these products.


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## Hillsvale (Jul 12, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

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I am fully aware that everyone here is here to learn and help, I am one of them nor am I poo pooing anyone I am simply stating that first hand treatment certainly must be better than via a computer when none of the clinical testing, pictures and whatever else may be helpful for diagnoses. The fellow I found is a large animal vet who has taken interest in goats... one of the few here I might add because they are becoming so popular. I can't imagine that anyone would dismiss a trained individuals personal clinical diagnosis and treatment plan in favour of this wonderful web site with people who are not seeing the testing completed, if that is offensive then so be it however if someone took offense to that then I would percieve them as unrealistic. Would you have a diagnosis on yourself with tests which substantiate a treatment, medications ert in favour of a wellness website where they don't have access to your tests?

Anyway, I have commented before that I appreciate your obvious knowledge Helmstead and will continue to read your posts and responses but this back and forth is taking away from Elevens OP and I respectfully bow out of this thead and keep my comments to myself to preserve this threads intent.

Thanks all especially Eleven who started this invaluable thread, I am sorry for my part in having it deviate from your intent.



Shelley


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## elevan (Jul 12, 2011)

arabianequine said:
			
		

> @ elevan you mean low or long?


LOW...I fixed it.  Thanks!


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## elevan (Jul 12, 2011)

Hillsvale - I hope that you're still reading this thread despite having "bowed out" from the discussion.  Let me explain where I was coming from if I may...I was sick personally and my doctor who is very good was having trouble figuring it out...sent me to specialists and ordered tons of tests and nothing came back with any remarkable results.  I turned to the internet and did some research on my own...went back to my doctor with a test that I wanted him to run.  He was insulted that I would do something like that but ran the test.  I was right.  Diagnosis was made and medication was prescribed.  I'm doing much better.  Moral of this story?  Just because they are a trained doctor (or vet) doesn't mean that they can't overlook something...doesn't mean that they won't get something wrong.  Sometimes it takes the patient (or the producer) to widen the horizon and look for more answers.

Again I meant no offense in questioning your vet.  You gave us your test results when you said what your vet found.  Each person on this forum brings a different level of experience to the table...and sometimes imo experience or just plain dumb luck at times can be more valuable than education.

*Now...back to our regularly scheduled discussion...*


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## arabianequine (Jul 12, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

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Don't be confusing me like that.... thats what I thought though.


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## elevan (Jul 12, 2011)

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It's called Happy Finger Syndrome...


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## Hillsvale (Jul 13, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Hillsvale - I hope that you're still reading this thread despite having "bowed out" from the discussion.  Let me explain where I was coming from if I may...I was sick personally and my doctor who is very good was having trouble figuring it out...sent me to specialists and ordered tons of tests and nothing came back with any remarkable results.  I turned to the internet and did some research on my own...went back to my doctor with a test that I wanted him to run.  He was insulted that I would do something like that but ran the test.  I was right.  Diagnosis was made and medication was prescribed.  I'm doing much better.  Moral of this story?  Just because they are a trained doctor (or vet) doesn't mean that they can't overlook something...doesn't mean that they won't get something wrong.  Sometimes it takes the patient (or the producer) to widen the horizon and look for more answers.
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## DonnaBelle (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm glad you took time to explain to Hillsdale, Em.

I took my Annie in to have a large abcess lanced by my terrific vet.  He prepared me for CL.  He thought that's what it was.

He cultured and sent it in, and it was NOT CL.  

He is young, and he's still learning. But he is WILLING to learn.  That's the big plus in his favor.  What I don't want is some know it all who can't accept he might make a mistake.

I took an article about CL I got off the internet yesterday.  He took time to read and discuss it with me.  That's what I appreciate.

DonnaBelle


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## Emmetts Dairy (Jul 13, 2011)

Hillsvale - Totally understand and agree with your point on "on line" treatment of your herd.  Its not very responsible to treat your goats thru on line support only.  But I want to let you know...I have gotten more education from the goat farmers in my area, practical experience and people on this site, than my vet at times. (Who is a large animal vet)  Its the old addage that people who tend goats everyday seem to have more practical experience and knowledge than people who soley are book smart on goats. 

IE...My husband disbuds our goats and does a fabulous job. Been doing it for a long time. He never went to school for it. Learned it from a dairy goat farmer whos been tending goats for 35 years. We never had a scur issue. Except for goats we got from other farms.  Anyway, He injured himself this year and was unable to do the disbudding.  Called my vet.  He's a large animal vet we thought... he should be able to do this just fine right? Well Hmmmm...low and behold my bucklings have scurs and will be having surgery to correct my VETS error.  They will be going to another vet who has his own goat herd.  Which makes me feel so much more confident in him cuz he tends them daily.  Dont get me wrong. I like my vet and he's has helped us in many ways. But he's never the end all for me when it comes to treatment, herd management etc. He serves a purpose cuz he has that degree...lol...and a rx pad!! ha ha ha!! Kidding...but I think you get my point. 

So I think thats what everyone was kinda trying to put forth to you.  Just cuz they have a degree...dos'nt mean their on top of thier game and doing the best they possible could for your herd.  I hope you dont take offense at all.  Just trying to show you from expirence the people with degree's are not ALWAYS the ones with all the answers. Be open minded! One thing I can be sure of is goatie will through all of us for a loop now and again now matter how many degrees you have or how many years you herded!!! 

Be well...happy herding!!!  

PS I love Nova Scotia...beautiful place to live Im sure!!!


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## ladyfarmer10 (Jul 14, 2011)

What is the doseage for corid,as a preventive and/or treatment.


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## arabianequine (Jul 14, 2011)

ladyfarmer10 said:
			
		

> What is the doseage for corid,as a preventive and/or treatment.





			
				elevan said:
			
		

> So since I started this thread I might as well put the dimethox dosage here...
> 
> Di-Methox:  1cc per 5# on day 1, 1cc per 10# days 2-5 for prevention.


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## elevan (Jul 14, 2011)

arabianequine said:
			
		

> ladyfarmer10 said:
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I believe that CoRid is a different dosage...

Who uses CoRid???


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 14, 2011)

ladyfarmer10 said:
			
		

> What is the doseage for corid,as a preventive and/or treatment.


We use it at the rate of 2 oz(premixed liquid) or 1 1/2 teaspoons powder  per 5 gallons of drinking water, this must be the only source of drinking water. If pastures are wet, you have to treat by hand, since they wont be drinking enough. 

oral dosage for us is: liquid 1/2 cc per 10 lbs of animal twice a day.

for atleast 5 days


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 14, 2011)

Here is my mixture if i go out and find a kid or young doe actively scouring, and I suspect coccidiosis:

1cc penn G per 15lbs body weight injected

either corid or sulfa-dimethoxin mixed 
1-4 ounces of kaolin-pectin, depending on the size of the animal. 
1 oz =30cc
and spectam-scour gaurd for pigs 

I do all this until the scours let up, twice a day, then when the animal is no longer scouring, 

I continue with the cocci treatment and Penn G twice a day. 

Normally the scours let up in 24 hours.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 14, 2011)

Liquid CoRid 9.6% (undiluted) @ 2.5cc/10lbs for 5 days   It is listed along with other meds we use on my blog for anyone who may want to look.


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## arabianequine (Jul 14, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> arabianequine said:
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I did not see the med being asked....sorry. 

I thought it just said preventive and treatment for cocci.


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## elevan (Jul 14, 2011)

arabianequine said:
			
		

> elevan said:
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Hey, no problem


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## ladyfarmer10 (Jul 15, 2011)

Thanks every one.This treatment  will also go into my little notebook on my goats.
Thanks Again


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 15, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> Liquid CoRid 9.6% (undiluted) @ 2.5cc/10lbs for 5 days   It is listed along with other meds we use on my blog for anyone who may want to look.


Just curious, but the book I got on goats says to not use CoRid on goats-any guesses as to why not (I mean other than it, like many meds, are labeled cya for cattle)?  I just started on Dimethox 40% and it is my first time doing any kind of preventative treatment for kids so just trying to broaden by knowledge base here.


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## Our7Wonders (Jul 15, 2011)

I believe Corid is usually not the first choice of many because it can cause goat polio,  - that is it blocks or depleats thiamine in some way.  That, and it's reported to not be as effective.  Others on here have reported success with it.  Because it CAN cause issues and I have access to di-methox I've chosen  to go that route.  If it's all that was available I would certainly use it - I think cocci will kill a goat much quicker than the thiamine issue - especially if you're aware that it can be an issue and be ready to treat with thimine when the course of cocci treatment was all done.  If I remember right you can't treat with thiamine while giving Corid because it would make the corid ineffective.  And I know in order for the corid to work it is usually doses at much higher amounts than the label states.


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## Goatmasta (Jul 15, 2011)

Dimethox 40% is my first choice.  However, sometimes I do use CoRid 9.6% (undiluted), and on occasion I use them both together.  
  As far as CoRid causing polio in goats, I believe it is a myth, you would have to give half the bottle to one goat in a short amount of time.  It just isn't that dangerous.


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## elevan (Jul 15, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> Dimethox 40% is my first choice.  However, sometimes I do use CoRid 9.6% (undiluted), and on occasion I use them both together.
> As far as CoRid causing polio in goats, I believe it is a myth, you would have to give half the bottle to one goat in a short amount of time.  It just isn't that dangerous.


Wouldn't giving vitamin B at the same time as CoRid be counter productive??  _I think I remember seeing helmstead comment something like that a while back...and I recently saw someone post that they gave both (CoRid & VitB) at the same time as treatment..._


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## Roll farms (Jul 15, 2011)

I have read 1st person accounts where people who keep corid in the water (large boer herds) long term to protect different-aged weanlings / kids have had a noted increase in cases of goat polio.  I can understand how that happens....and I see no reason why they would have lied about it.
Who knows what dosage they used?  If I remember correctly, they'd been on corid daily for 2+ mos. when it started happening.  The vet told them to stop the corid and they gave everyone thiamine, and the herd improved.

I can also see how someone who only uses it on occasion would not have any issues.

As for giving thiamine at the same time, corid inhibits B vitamin absorption (that's what kills the cocci) so you do NOT want to give B vitamin at the same time, theoretically you're feeding the cocci what it needs to survive...you can supplement w/ B vitamin after treatment is over.


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## Pearce Pastures (Jul 15, 2011)

Thanks for all the great info!


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## Goatmasta (Jul 15, 2011)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> I have read 1st person accounts where people who keep corid in the water (large boer herds) long term to protect different-aged weanlings / kids have had a noted increase in cases of goat polio.  I can understand how that happens....and I see no reason why they would have lied about it.
> Who knows what dosage they used?  If I remember correctly, they'd been on corid daily for 2+ mos. when it started happening.  The vet told them to stop the corid and they gave everyone thiamine, and the herd improved.
> 
> I can also see how someone who only uses it on occasion would not have any issues.
> ...


My experience is that putting CoRid in the water as a treatment is not effective and the only result might be polio.  Generally the window of opportunity for cocci is between 3 wks - 3 months, since the kids should be on a bottle(or dam) for at least 8 weeks and generally they don't drink much water until weaning, putting CoRid in the water is not worth the time or money.  If CoRid is used as I suggested, it would be near impossible for a goat to get Polio from it.   If you have a bad enough case of cocci that you feel like you need to treat goats that consist of a wide range of ages, you should be using a much better cocci med than CoRid.  If you are simply trying to keep cocci numbers in check, you should use a medicated feed, especially in a boer herd.


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## elevan (Jul 18, 2011)

Does anyone have experience with this drug for cocci treatment?



> Brand Name: Marquis
> 
> Available as 150 mg/gram oral paste for equine, canine and feline formulas. Must be compounded.
> 
> ...


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## Roll farms (Jul 19, 2011)

Goatmasta said:
			
		

> Roll farms said:
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Well, *I* know all that, I was just 'splainin' how it could happen, (think Ricky Ricardo) b/c you'd said cocci causing polio was a myth.  
Believe it or not, there are Boer / meat goat people who would laugh us / our methods ("us / our" being collective pronoun-not you specifically- for the 'dairy' or more hands-on approach a lot of us posters here use) off of their message boards.  They don't touch the kids born on their farm unless they're tagging / weighing / loading them.  If 20 or 30 a year die (out of hundreds of kids), that's just part and parcel of the biz....And just like w/ this board, there is a lot of not-exactly-accurate info floating around on boer boards.

Emily, I've seen the name pop up here and there...never heard of anyone actually using it, just trying to get info on it.


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## poorboys (Jul 19, 2011)

I have a girlfriend that has nothing but boers, and they always go untouch. she worms with pellets, and puts stuff in their water. and she looses kids. I have nubies and boers and everyone here gets one on one treatment, if I had a more than 50 if would be out of the question, but if they are all running togather they should be treated and preventive togather, just my thoughts on coccidia, boers get it too.


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## elevan (Jul 19, 2011)

Does anyone have experience with this drug for cocci treatment?

    Brand Name: Marquis


			
				Roll farms said:
			
		

> Emily, I've seen the name pop up here and there...never heard of anyone actually using it, just trying to get info on it.


I saw it pop up on another board and thought I'd ask about it here...not sure what to think of it myself as the person talking about it was also filling their goat full of pepto


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## ksalvagno (Jul 19, 2011)

Marquis is the top of the line drug. Alpaca breeders use it when their alpacas have Emac which is a type of coccidia. In alpacas, Emac is a killer. Marquis is very expensive. I would use it as a last resort drug. Does great for taking care of Emac though.


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## Caprice_Acres (Aug 2, 2011)

Sulfamethoxine (sulmet) is known to not work in many areas. 

Sulfadimethoxine (albon, dimethox) are very effective at killing ALL stages of cocci.  Can be used as a prevention/treatment. Initial treatment is done at 3 weeks old, I personally do a treatment round (1cc per 5lbs for 5 days) at their first prevention at 3 weeks of age. I give it right in the milk for the bottle dairy kids.  Until they are 50lbs, I give dimethox every 3 weeks, day one gets 1cc per 5lbs, days 2-5 get 1cc per 10lbs. 

Corid is NOT a treatment for cocci.  The thiamine inhibition only stops the young cocci from maturing to the damaging stages of life. If your goat has a heavy load and is suffering from cocci related illness (anemia, stunting etc) do NOT treat with corid! You need to KILL the adult cocci which are damaging the kid's intestines NOW.  Use sulfadimethoxine.  However, as a PREVENTION it works well for many people. Treat at 3 weeks with dimethox, then use corid after that, every 3 weeks until 'well grown'.


Feed through cocci prevention is what I'll be trying next year with my dam raised kids. I attempted ONCE to do cocci prevention using dimethox on my dam raised.  I only had 5 dam raised kids this year, too - but catching them and handling them was an absolute nightmare - most dimethox got wasted. I finally figured I'd just watch for symptoms this year and treat as needed, so far kids are growing like weeds! 

Boer or other meat herds SWEAR by feed through cocci preventions, but dairy folks seem to think that goats don't eat enough of the medicatd feed to do any good. I think I'm going to mix it at a rate that only a small amount of feed needs to be consumed to get the proper doseage.  I'll probably do an initial cocci treatment on all of them at 3 weeks old still. 

Here's where I learned more about the feed throughs : http://www.barnonemeatgoats.com/worms.html


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## redtailgal (Apr 28, 2012)

So, what is everones drug of choice? (ok wow, that was poorly worded, lol)

And how many of you DONT do preventative?

Do you do preventative on kids only, under 1 years old only, on the whole herd?


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## Roll farms (Apr 28, 2012)

I use Di Methox.  I buy the powder ($11.55 from Jeffer's Supply) and mix my own.  I treat mine until they're 7 or 8 mos. old.  I've also used SMZ-TMP a time or two when I ran out of DiMethox.

For me, it's easier to just treat all the kids every 21 days.  I hit them first thing in the morning before bottles, so the meds hit an 'empty' stomach, then I go feed the adults, milk, and come back n give the kids their bottles....which means the drugs are working for 30-45 minutes before they get fed.

I truly wish you could just look at the kids and say, "OK, this one will get coccidiosis, this one won't, this one will fight it off ok, this one will have a subclinical case that will damage her but not give her scours." but you can't.  

Having fecals every 14-21 days would be....exhausting / aggravating / expensive.  Even if I did my own...who's to say if I did the fecal today then they wouldn't get a bloom in 10 days (before the next fecal) and get sick?

I lost 4 out of 9 kids our first year of 'serious' goat farming.  The next year I tried preventing w/ feed alone (on my vet's advice) and we had 2 get severely stunted before I figured out that it wasn't working.  
I started the DiMethox prevention the 3rd year and we haven't lost a kid since.  It may not be the 'best' practice, but it's the one that works best for us at this time.


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## redtailgal (Apr 28, 2012)

Thanks, Rolls.  That makes sense.

Anyone else wanna chime in with their method?


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## elevan (Apr 28, 2012)

I use Albon suspension.  I give preventative treatments 3 times starting at 3 weeks of age.  Beyond that I'll treat based on how wet the weather is and any symptoms shown.

Albon suspension is probably one of the more expensive ways to go, but I have smaller goats so use less of it.  The goats like the taste of it and therefore I don't get it spit back at me like with some meds.


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## Mamaboid (Apr 28, 2012)

We are using Di-Methox liquid, 5 day treatments @ first day 1cc per 5 lbs. and the next 4 days 1cc per 10#.  Am in the middle of 2nd round, and have not decided how many rounds I will do.  I may stop after this one unless it gets wet again like it did last fall.  Will do at least 2 rounds on new kids due May 17.


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## redtailgal (Apr 28, 2012)

So none of you do preventative on your adults?  What about medicated feed for the adults?


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## Mamaboid (Apr 28, 2012)

We don't do anything for the adults.  We don't feed any medicated feed right now.  My preggers and milking girls get a sweet feed type of goat feed that our local mill mixes especially for goats, and all the hay they can eat.  They browse and graze on the pond bank and in the fields free range an hour or so when the weather is so we can be out with them.  The bucks get hay and browse only.  They all get loose minerals with extra AC added to the boy's.


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## redtailgal (Apr 28, 2012)

Thanks for the info.


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## elevan (Apr 28, 2012)

I've stopped feeding medicated feed.  It gives a false sense of security and I felt that I was just wasting my money.

As far as treating adults...no I don't, not unless a fecal warrants it.  Coccidia just isn't really common in goats over 2 years old.


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## Roll farms (Apr 29, 2012)

Same here.  Honestly, if I had an adult that 'needed' treatment (aside from a random rescue case in bad shape) I wouldn't want to keep / breed it and that need into our herd.


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## gigiintheforest (Jun 2, 2012)

I have a baby pygmy wether who is 8 wks old and only 8#s.  We just picked him up from the breeder who I believe never treats for coccidiosis.  He is very thin - you can feel his ribs - but he eats like a champ so I started giving him a little calf manna to pick up the weight just a bit.  I wormed him orally yesterday with Ivermectin and was wondering if I should treat him with Demethox for coccidiosis.  I don't think he's ever been treated and his eyelids and gums are a very pale pink.  He also has a "belly".  Any thoughts?


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## Goatherd (Jun 2, 2012)

If his stool is normal and he's eating well, give the wormer a chance to work before treating for cocci.


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## gigiintheforest (Jun 2, 2012)

Goatherd said:
			
		

> If his stool is normal and he's eating well, give the wormer a chance to work before treating for cocci.


Okay.  That makes sense.  His stool is normal and he's eating everything in site.  We've only had them a week and so I'm as nervous as a first-time mother - LOL! :/


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## 20kidsonhill (Jun 2, 2012)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> So, what is everones drug of choice? (ok wow, that was poorly worded, lol)
> 
> And how many of you DONT do preventative?
> 
> Do you do preventative on kids only, under 1 years old only, on the whole herd?


WE feed medicated feed to all kids and replacement breeding stock under two years of age. The feed has rumensin in it. 

We medicate in the drinking water with corid(in the gallon) or Sulfa-dimethoxine12.5% starting when the first group of kids is 3 weeks of age. The water is available to all the does and kids in that pen/field. Roughly the dosage is 2ounces(60cc) per 5 gallons day 1 of corid and 1 ounce(30cc) per 5 gallons day 2 to 5, and double that for the sulfa-dimethoxine 12.5%.  However if for some reason I calculate they aren't getting enough daily medication per lb of total animals then I increase the dosage or treat them all by hand for a couple of days along with in the water. We treat every 21 to 28 days, until the kids are weaned. 

Any actively scouring animals suspected of having coccidiosis are treated by hand for 5 days with Sulfa-dimethoxine and Penn G shots.


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## Roll farms (Jun 2, 2012)

gigiintheforest said:
			
		

> I have a baby pygmy wether who is 8 wks old and only 8#s.  We just picked him up from the breeder who I believe never treats for coccidiosis.  He is very thin - you can feel his ribs - but he eats like a champ so I started giving him a little calf manna to pick up the weight just a bit.  I wormed him orally yesterday with Ivermectin and was wondering if I should treat him with Demethox for coccidiosis.  I don't think he's ever been treated and his eyelids and gums are a very pale pink.  He also has a "belly".  Any thoughts?


It could be cocci  or a cocci /  worm combo.  Rather than wait (and risk the damage cocci can do to the intestinal lining), why not have a fecal float done looking for coccidia and then treat if needed.  Fecals are relatively cheap (20$ or so).  Me, I'd treat him ASAP w/ DiMethox and then repeat in 21 days, but a fecal would def. answer your question.

8# at 8wks is WAY under weight.  I would suspect cocci and possibly other parasites.  Have you checked him over for lice / mites?  Sometimes external parasites will cause anemia as well, and with the mild winters had by some, the creepy crawlies are thriving.


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## elevan (Jun 3, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> gigiintheforest said:
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I agree.


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## gigiintheforest (Jun 3, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> gigiintheforest said:
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We just treated him with Dimethox.  I'm almost sure that's what's causing his bony sides and sway belly.  He hated the stuff and is now pouting but as my grandmother would say "it's for your own good".  I didn't see any lice on him but will treat for that also as his sibling who we had to take back to the breeder because he was too young and not weaned properly had lice so I'm sure they are there.  I don't think we will ever get any animals from this breeder again.  But we already love this little guy so I'm doing anything at all to help pull him through.  We have NO vets nearby that treat goats - the nearest is at the OSU Stillwater school of veterinary 2 hours north of us.  I need to learn how to do my own fecals.


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## gigiintheforest (Jun 3, 2012)

I just wanted to thank you all for this thread.  It was such a help on dosing amounts.


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## SassyKat6181 (Jun 3, 2012)

*I need to learn how to do my own fecals*

Fiasco Farms has a great page for this  http://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm


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## gigiintheforest (Jun 4, 2012)

SassyKat6181 said:
			
		

> *I need to learn how to do my own fecals*
> 
> Fiasco Farms has a great page for this  http://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm


Thanks, this looks like exactly what I need.


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## Bowser Farm (Jun 7, 2012)

Okay...I read all the posts on the first 5 pages and 'skimmed' the rest of them.  I don't think I saw the answer to my question there but if it is, please excuse my overlooking.

I have read many websites including this one and I'm still confused.  With all the talk about the different meds, my question is:  since coccidia is SPECIES SPECIFIC...are the meds themselves as restricted in their application?  For example:

I'm looking for coccidiostats for GOATS...but my vet directed me to Corid available at T.S....but when I read the label, it named two species of coccidia that are specific to cattle.

Someone at a website (here?) posted a link to Di-Methox for sale at Jeffers...but when I read the lable, although it does not specify which species of coccidia, it does refer to ONLY cattle and poultry (in the case of drinking water solutions and soluble powder) or even just cattle (in the case of injectable).  

I've googled for 'goat specific' doses of both Corid and Di-Methox...but don't seem to be finding any identified as such.  Comments?  

_Thanks!_


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## elevan (Jun 7, 2012)

The type of coccidia is specific to the animal species that is it's host.  But they all have the same "weakness" which is what a coccidistat attacks, and so all coccidistats can be used.

CoRid imo is more of a prevention than a treatment.

The very first post of this thread contains "goat specific" dosages that you can work off of.  Just know that the level of resistance in your area may require you to adjust them which is where you need to consult with your vet.


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## Roll farms (Jun 8, 2012)

To my knowledge, none of the coccidiosis meds are labeled 'for goats' specifically, with manufacturer's dosages instructions, aside from the feed additives rumensin and deccox.

Those won't treat cocci, but if fed at high enough levels will help prevent it until the goats build immunity to it.

A goat who actually is sick from coccidiosis needs treatment (DiMethox is what we use here) before counting on the feed to 'work', and in our experience here, the feed alone is not enough to keep it in check.  We give DiMethox every 21 days for at least 6 mos.


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## gigiintheforest (Jun 8, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> To my knowledge, none of the coccidiosis meds are labeled 'for goats' specifically, with manufacturer's dosages instructions, aside from the feed additives rumensin and deccox.
> 
> Those won't treat cocci, but if fed at high enough levels will help prevent it until the goats build immunity to it.
> 
> A goat who actually is sick from coccidiosis needs treatment (DiMethox is what we use here) before counting on the feed to 'work', and in our experience here, the feed alone is not enough to keep it in check.  We give DiMethox every 21 days for at least 6 mos.


Do you do a five day course of treatment or is it just a single dose of DiMethox every 21 days?


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## Roll farms (Jun 8, 2012)

5 days.  If I suspect one actually *has* cocci, I'll give it for 7 days.


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## gigiintheforest (Jun 8, 2012)

So let me see if I've got this.  You treat for 5 days (7 if you suspect cocci) and then wait for 21 days and then treat another 5 days.  This treatment goes on until they are how old?


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## gigiintheforest (Jun 8, 2012)

Oops sorry, I just reread your earlier post and you treat until 6 months.


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