# All Things Goats



## Eliya Sage (Jun 20, 2017)

Hello fellow goat-lover! 
I'd like to start a conversation for goat-lovers, where we can all come and feel free to, Share adorable stories about our goats, Ask questions about goats, Share things that you've learned first-hand on raising goats, and of course, just about _All Things Goats_ related!
If you got a question, just go ahead and reply down at the bottom and i, as well as anyone involved in this thread or subscribed, will get back to you as soon as possible .


Q&A:
How do i get involved in this thread?
All you have to do is reply to _anything_ on this thread, OR, hit the "watch thread" Button!

Why is there a poll at the top?
I created a poll on this page so i could know how everyone's experience was, and how you vote will help me understand what i can do to change the thread to make it more enjoyable!

Do i _have_ to vote?
There is no obligation to vote! Anyone who wishes to, is welcome to, but no one is obliged to!

Can i subscribe to this thread even if i don't have goats yet?
Yes! in fact, We Encourage you to! Even if you currently don't have goats, or if you don't ever want goats, you are still more than welcome! Not everyone has the appropriate lifestyle for goats, but even if you just think their cute (We think their cute too!), you are more than welcome to enjoy this thread and to get involved! As long as your a goat-lover, we welcome you!


*Please feel free to invite fellow-goat-lovers to this thread!!!*

-----RULES-----
I don't have many rules but the ones i do have, i expect everyone to follow.​
1-No Bullying! I encourage you to have discussions, but i refuse to allow bullying.
2-Please refrain from discussing butcher, as to it may upset some viewers, including myself.
3-Please remember to think before you post. If something is against the BYH rules, you will be reported and possibly banned.
​-----My Goats-----​I have experience with two pygmy goat weathers, and by the end of this summer i will be getting a Nigerian Dwarf doe that we can milk .

Grover:​He's very out-going and curious, doesn't enjoy being held but he's still a people goat. He's anxious to explore and climb everywhere and will make a toy out of anything. He isn't a picky eater, and though he's a little smaller than his half brother Castiel, I believe he is considered to be the "Alpha" out of the two. He was named after a character in _one _of my favorite book series percy Jackson & The Olympians, by Rick Riordan.
Grover Is Brown And Black.

Castiel:
He's very sweet and lovable but comes with a sassy attitude if he doesn't get what he wants. He wattles, And he doesn't mind being held or groomed, but he's shy to new people and hesitant to try new things, But he's an all around Sweet goat. He has a new fascination to jumping onto my fathers workshop table, in my dad's garage, where he's forbid to go, and he seems to enjoy when i run in, scoop him up and carry him back to his brother who has by then started crying for Cas to come back.
He was named after my favorite character in one my my all-time favorite shows: Supernatural.
Cas Is White And Black.

Thank you for being apart of _All Things Goats_!!!
​-Eliya Sage.


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## Eliya Sage (Jun 24, 2017)

I'll start 

Something i've learned first-hand about raising goats: Your never prepared for whats next. Whether or not your new to goats, or you where raised with goats all your life, You can't ever be sure of what'll happen next. Having goats in your life is a constant roller coaster, You'll be going along, smooth sailing, then in a blink of an eye, something will happen and you'll stand speechless. It can be as harmless as finding an eaten tarp, to, come out to see them scratching up your dad's new car...
Finding mystery stickiness on their fur, to, finding a strange lump and calling 50 veterinarians, and then one of them finally say it's probably only a scab..
Like i said,      Roller coaster... But, Something else i've learned is even on your worst days, busiest weeks, or what seems like the most hectic hour of your life: Goats are worth it. If they don't make you laugh (which is unlikely), even being _near_ them, will give you overwhelming peace.
Example:
Last christmas we where setting up the tree and decorations, we had a system, then my sister who used to have extreme anger management problems and a control freak, (she's gotten ALOT better since then) tried to take over, and messed up things, when i tried to tell her we already had a plan, and saying "No wait! Not over there! No Mom said to put it over here!!.. No don't pick it up from tha- *smash* "--Side..."   I had an anxiety attack and i completely broke down. I walked outside to the goats, and i knelt down, sitting there feeling completely helpless (Not like the Holiday season wasn't already stressful) and next thing you know it, Grover & Cas came to see if i had food, and they got in my face (I never mind, it's kinda cute) but instead of nibbling my nose like they usually do, they both started liking the tears off my cheeks. INSTANT REVIVAL. That was the happiest moment in my life.
2nd happiest moment? when it was raining and i was sitting in the goat barn for shelter with them, and they had their heads rested on my lap, napping.
3rd? Probably when we moved from a dangerous neighbor hood, to a quiet, safe neighborhood and a house with a big yard.
4th was when i found out Twenty one pilots was playing only 30 minuets away!!!! EEEEK!
(The forth kinda got ruined because i found out we had plans to go visit my grandparents at the time they played.. not that i don't love my grandparents, i do, but i was super depressed about missing TØP....


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## OneFineAcre (Jun 24, 2017)

Here is a pic of my Doe Cocoa being shown by @Goat Whisperer 
Can't take my eyes off of this pic


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## Green Acres Farm (Jun 24, 2017)

OneFineAcre said:


> Here is a pic of my Doe Cocoa being shown by @Goat Whisperer
> Can't take my eyes off of this pic
> 
> View attachment 36133


She's beautiful!


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## Eliya Sage (Jun 25, 2017)

OneFineAcre said:


> Here is a pic of my Doe Cocoa being shown by @Goat Whisperer
> Can't take my eyes off of this pic
> 
> View attachment 36133



Thats a very stunning doe you got there!!!


There's two pictures of when i first got them (when there huddled in the corner) and Now (When they're out foraging) Sorry for the blurriness :[
My profile pic was taken somewhere in between the two.


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## Goatgirl47 (Jun 27, 2017)

A few random pictures of our goats, all taken in the past three weeks.


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## Eliya Sage (Jul 5, 2017)

Goatgirl47 said:


> A few random pictures of our goats, all taken in the past three weeks.
> 
> View attachment 36218
> View attachment 36215
> ...


Awww! They are absolutely draw dropping! Sorry this took so long, i went to a third world camp in Florida and did some volunteering, mostly painting houses, digging fences for local farms, helped some elders move their house belongings, roofed some houses, stuff like that.
Love your goats!


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## Eliya Sage (Jul 7, 2017)

Hey, u was wondering if anyone had ever heard of putting bug repellent on goats?...
This morning i noticed a lot of mosquitoes flies and gnats buzzing and annoying Grover and Castiel...
We have some bug spray (for humans) that usually works pretty well, and if it worked even a little bit for them, i'd be sold. The only danger i can think of is the toxins in the spray, but would it really be aloud to be sold for us if it was really that dangerous?
Any input or suggestions would be much appreciated 
Have a good day, And Happy late 4th of July


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## Green Acres Farm (Jul 7, 2017)

Eliya Sage said:


> Hey, u was wondering if anyone had ever heard of putting bug repellent on goats?...
> This morning i noticed a lot of mosquitoes flies and gnats buzzing and annoying Grover and Castiel...
> We have some bug spray (for humans) that usually works pretty well, and if it worked even a little bit for them, i'd be sold. The only danger i can think of is the toxins in the spray, but would it really be aloud to be sold for us if it was really that dangerous?
> Any input or suggestions would be much appreciated
> Have a good day, And Happy late 4th of July


I am using that right now, until I get some horse spray for them.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 7, 2017)

I use Avon skin-so-soft bug spray on our goats…

Works pretty well.


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## Eliya Sage (Jul 15, 2017)

Hey, Anyone have any tips on keeping goats safe? Just read a thread about someone catching this person trying to steal an animal. That reality hit hard. I hate the idea that we have a world where this isn't something that should shock me. We have a very safe town and a kinda hidden neighborhood, but, someone Has tried to break into my Dad's van before when it was parked Right next to the goat pen. The guy probably started trying to open it and that goats started yelling at him, and he ran off for fear the neighbors might come check it out. We're lucky to have neighbors close enough and friendly enough that if they saw someone shady going in our backyard, they'd try to scare them away or do whatever they could. I was wondering, my siblings have pictures of the goats on social media, as well as my parents, if someone took the goats and someone found them, would the pics serve as proof of ownership? Also, How much do cheap black and white outdoor security cameras go for these days? And suggested brands?....... i may be a helicopter parent, but i want my babies safe.


> luvmypets said: ↑
> Someone had their car parked on the other side of the fence and I saw him standing there looking at the animals his arms reaching over. So I walked over to him and the second he saw me he bolted. And when I say bolted I mean he ran across the road to his car, didnt even look to see if others were coming. Then he drove into our neighbors yard, which was all nice and tidy, with a ridiculously tight turn and he sped off. It was very sketchy, I looked to see if he had thrown anything over but I couldnt find anything. I normally wouldnt care if some one was observing them but the second he saw me he was gone within thirty seconds. He ran as if he was doing something illegal..which Im wondering if he was trying to dump trash or something onto our property. If that wasnt sketchy enough I also remembering that his trunk was open..


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## Latestarter (Jul 15, 2017)

Theft of all sorts of things happen. You might save some money and just post some signs that say "Smile, you're on hidden surveillance camera" or some such. That way anyone casing the place will think twice about doing anything. You could always buy a game cam and set it up and there are actual remote access cameras that you can set up and monitor through your cell phone. I haven't actually done any of them but have read about them. Not sure of price either... you'd need to do your own research to determine what would work for you and be affordable.

If they do get stolen, chances of recovering them is pretty slim... I'd guess if they get stolen it will be with a dinner appointment in their immediate future... A good farm dog might prove as a detractor as well.


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## Crab (Jul 16, 2017)

I getting some great ideas. I really appreciate it!


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## Crab (Jul 16, 2017)

Can anyone tell me when is the best time to make my Billy's into Weathers and also any helpful knowledge in the process. (Ointments,meds,etc.)


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## Latestarter (Jul 16, 2017)

You can make a buck into a wether any time you please. If you do it young, like less than 12 weeks, you could probably do it yourself via castration or banding (or burdizzo), but as an adult, you'd probably be best to take him and have a vet do it. You can watch these things being done by searching for them on youtube.


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## Rbible (Jul 16, 2017)

Igot a couple of bucks from A guy in town who couldn't take care of them any longer.
Unfortunately he let them get pretty wild. Theyre kinda starting to trust me, but not much.

Any who.
They are some of the narliest looking goats I ever ever seen.
Horns all twisted which way and rude as all get out.
They chase my other goats everywhere. But never offer to hurt them.

So my question is can I band them or castrate them like a calf?
And is there anyway to band horns?


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## Latestarter (Jul 16, 2017)

Greetings and welcome to BYH @Rbible There have been folks on here who have banded horns... some with success, others not so much. I think you can do a search and the threads should show up. Thanks for sharing the pics. They are pretty rugged looking. Make yourself at home and browse around.

As for castration, they look a little "mature" and and not at a "calf" stage anymore. Will be pretty stressful for them  as adults... so a vet might be best...


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## Eliya Sage (Jul 16, 2017)

Rbible said:


> Igot a couple of bucks from A guy in town who couldn't take care of them any longer.
> Unfortunately he let them get pretty wild. Theyre kinda starting to trust me, but not much.
> 
> Any who.
> ...


Wow! Congratulations on the new goats! You might want to be careful, since they've been used to being treated inproperly, But, Find out what treats they like most, Try anything from Cheerios, fruit loops, apple sliced (seedless), Or just a handfull of sweetfeed. Grover's favorite is Apples, Castiel's is Fruitloops. Maybe handfeeding will increase the trust between ya'll. Maybe if you can, get one alone, (not cornered), So you can work one-on-one. As far as their horns go, if you'd like to fix them, Once you get them more tame, you should try trimming their horns down. I do my pygmy's horns every other month, i let them be a few inches, but i don't let them get too long. Trimming the top of the horn is just like cutting a thick fingernail. Not painful, as long as you don't get too close. There are tons of websites and threads that give suggestions on where to stop, depending on the length, and signs of when to stop, before you cut they vein. Also, being gentle is _very_ important. The horns are apart of their scull, and a fast cut may rattle them intensely and leave the goat wary to approach you. Also, If you do it gently, and with lots of treats, it may even strengthen the bond, since he'd get lots of one-on-one attention from you. But be wary, they may be difficult to hold on to. I recommend getting some type of milking stand (or build your own from scraps) so you can keep them in place while you do it. I use a pair of sharp nail pullers (image below), and cut the tips off. As far as banding goes, i've never done it myself, but from what i've read, Banding can be painful and can go wrong very easily.. 





> https://www.backyardherds.com/threads/banding-my-goats-horns.16935/


 Here's a thread that may help 






-You can pick them up at any hardware store, but you likely already have some sitting around.


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## Eliya Sage (Jul 30, 2017)

Hey guys! Sorry i haven't been on in a while, my summer has been slightly hectic.
I was wondering if ya'll got any suggestions on something i'm considering..
So, as ya'll know, we have two wethers, And, we're going to get a nigerian dwarf doe we can milk. The plan was, wait. find the right one (one in milk, good breeding, fair pricing, good past experience with kids), and buy it, go down to a farm and breed her again once she starts drying up.. Well, I'm considering going a different way. I know pretty much everyone hates bucks because they're almost all mean and aggressive, But, what if, we got the doe, kept her with our wethers, for company, milk her, and when we see signs of her drying up, we bought a buck? He'd be kept with our pet wethers, as well as our future doe... and i've read if he's kept with the doe, the  milk can start to smell, and or taste bad. Any experience with this? Logically, it makes sense. I know the reasoning behind all this, and i'm wondering if there is  something i should consider? We'd be getting the doe for milking purposes (and or course also being a pet), so it'd be shameful to buy the buck and then that make the milk not be tasty.. I am just thinking, we're not rich, and getting a good buck to breed the doe, every time she needs it, can be very costly. It makes sense t consider this, and i would much appreciate any feedback on this matter.
-Thanks!


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## Eliya Sage (Jul 30, 2017)

I keep reading "If the doe can smell the buck, they milk will taste goatie" and then "I keep bucks and does together, the milk tastes sweet, no problems here!", "It only matters where you milk them, if you milk them away from the bucks, the milk will be fine!", "I have to disagree, if the doe has been anywhere near the buck in the past 2 days, you'll be able to taste it in the milk!"
I'm so stressed out. It would save so much money to buy a buck with the doe. But is it really worth risking having the milk taste bad? Yes, i could always sell the buck if he made the milk taste bad, but i bond very quickly to animals and i don't think i would have the heart to part with him. Also, does anyone Notice a "goatie" taste in their milk, and not mind? Is it just, if you want milk that tastes like cow milk, you keep them far far away from bucks, but if you don't mind the milk tasting more "goatie", it's fine? do people drink "goatie" milk? Also, we're going to pasteurized our milk since it's much simpler than we thought, would pasteurizing the milk make the "goatie" taste go away? Also, if you boil the milk with like... Idk, some kind of spice or mineral or leaf, like mint, or something, would that take the "goatie" taste away?


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## Eliya Sage (Jul 30, 2017)

I realize i've given you all lots to think about, but i deeply thank ya'll for your suggestions, experienced tips, and past experience knowledge!


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 30, 2017)

Let me stop you at: 


Eliya Sage said:


> I know pretty much everyone hates bucks because they're almost all mean and aggressive,



This is NOT true. 
We have 9 breeding bucks, we had two breeder Kiko bucks (but left last week) and a bunch of bucklings that are being raised up. 

They are not mean. They are not aggressive. They are not crazy. 
They are actually better behaved than most of my does. I can do anything to my bucks and I can turn my back on them and never have a worry. I love love love love my bucks. They are quite puppy-dog like LOL They are all easy to handle as well. 

I took my one year old, 150# Nubian buck into the show ring myself (I'm 5' 5" and 100#) and handled him with ease. With just a collar. He was also bottle raised! 

I love my bucks dearly, and I know many many other agree with me and have no issues. 

All my kids are bottle fed as well (well, occasionally a doe will dam raise) and I've never had turn aggressive and everyone I've placed bucks with are very pleased with them. We have actually had several farms want our bucks specifically for their temperament (along with good looks and pedigree) several of those were never going to breed again, because they ended up with a wild or aggressive buck. After visiting and seeing our bucks they decided to give it another go. One of those farms has now gotten four bucks from me (all different lines) and love "their boys". If you raise them right you will not have issues. The temperament of the parent stock play a role in it as well. 

I was nervous about getting a Nubian buck as I know a lady who was almost killed by one. When I went to the our Nubian buck's breeder I actually could go into the pen full of bucks and walk right up to my bucks sire and do anything I wanted (mess with his feet, boss him around, etc). His son (my buck) is the same way. 

I encourage you to go visit breeders and look at bucks yourself. Talk to breeders and see what you like. Avoid breeders who have annoying, hi strung, fence jumping, or aggressive bucks. 

Maybe I'll post some pics later. Our bucks are the biggest babies here on the farm.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jul 30, 2017)

Also, you do not want to run your buck with the does. The milk WILL taste gross! Have you ever smelled a rutting buck? The milk will taste that way 
Now we've had shared fence lines with no issues, but you don't want them living together. 

But the bigger issue is that Nigerians breed year round. They can get pregnant days after kidding (I know someone who bred a doe 11 days after kidding ) and you do NOT want that. The does need time to recuperate before being re-bred. Also, bucks can absolutely breed their daughters at a young age. We have does cycling at 8-9 weeks old. You don't want your doelings getting bred that young. A neighbor down the road came out and found her 7 month old doe had just kidded- thankfully she lived- but that doe was bred around 8 weeks of age  The owner was mortified and learned her lesson: don't run intact bucks with doelings!


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## Goatgirl47 (Jul 30, 2017)

We have our bucks in with our does and so far it has not affected the taste of the milk.


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## Alaskan (Jul 31, 2017)

Goatgirl47 said:


> We have our bucks in with our does and so far it has not affected the taste of the milk.


Some bucks don't stink much off season, so only really change the taste of the milk after they turn stinky.


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## Latestarter (Jul 31, 2017)

I just had my grandkids here and they tasted my goat's milk for the first time. They each had different reactions. One said it tasted weird, another said it was great and tasted "just like milk"... I can taste a very slight difference in flavor from store bought whole cow milk... not "goatie" really, just creamier... And the flavor does change a little over time based on whatever they've been eating. I notice it's sweetest/best tasting after they've been eating sweet gum leaves. It's a little different (not bad, just different tasting) after they've been eating oak leaves. Maybe due to the tanins in the oak leaves? I drink it raw, unpasteurized. I was buying raw cows milk (Jersey cows) from a nearby dairy and my goat milk tastes almost identical to that. (I would shake it up before use to re-mix the separated cream back in) It is soooooooooo good when it's ice cold  

My goat milk comes from a Lamancha goat.  The key from what I've been told is to filter it immediately and get it chilled even faster. The sooner you get it chilled, the better it will taste and the longer it will last (spoilage and flavor). I bring mine up to the house and filter it then refrigerate it shortly after I'm done milking. My goats all get their grain together after milking (morning/night) and I stand there and play referee until they've knocked off their major hunger fervor. Otherwise the herd queen starts doing a round robin possession thing between all three feed buckets, which gets everyone all worked up, not to mention the grain that gets spilled/wasted by tipping over buckets .


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## Goatgirl47 (Jul 31, 2017)

Alaskan said:


> Some bucks don't stink much off season, so only really change the taste of the milk after they turn stinky.



I agree. Although I have had bucks in with my milking does during breeding season too, and still it did nothing to affect the taste of the milk. So saying, they were younger bucks, and I have heard that the older a buck gets, the stinkier he becomes.


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## goats&moregoats (Jul 31, 2017)

Ok need to chime in just a bit.  I do agree with not running bucks with does to avoid 2 things:
 1) pregnancies at to young of an age for the does/too soon after kidding in any doe
 2) unsupervised line breeding(father/daughter, mother/son etc.)
I did have a buck running with my does in the beginning but none were related at the time. It did not change the flavor of the milk. 

My bucks were not aggressive, not even when in rut. They do seem to get stinkier when in rut as they mature. None of mine have been offensively stinky. I do not care to handle my males to much during rut, but that is just my preference. My bucks were as gentle as most of my does and even more gentle then a few. They followed me around like puppy dogs just as the does did. I spent just as much time with my males (out of rut season) as my females.


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## Eliya Sage (Jul 31, 2017)

hmm, Wow, Thanks everyone! Much appreciated feedback!
Just wondering, has anyone ever tried like a diaper like thing to block the doe's rear from the buck, after she's kidded, until she's ready to breed again? maybe something designed to where poo can pass threw, but thats it?


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## Latestarter (Jul 31, 2017)

Ummmmm based on that rear end structure (have you looked at it?) I don't see any real way to block the one entry while not blocking the exit... or something like that... If there's a hole for stuff to exit, I'm sure that a buck will find a way to enter.


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## Alaskan (Jul 31, 2017)

I thought that you could buy an apron device that would help reduce breeding successes.

But I have heard that it doesn't always work.


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## Goatgirl47 (Aug 1, 2017)

Alaskan said:


> I thought that you could buy an apron device that would help reduce breeding successes.
> 
> But I have heard that it doesn't always work.



That is actually why I have my bucklings in with my does right now. I ordered some anti-mating aprons from House of Bacchus Pet Supplies, because at that time we didn't have any way of separating our maturing bucklings from our other goats. Now we do have a fenced area where we could separate them, but it is nice having everyone together. And when I see our buck Benji mounting his little doeling friend, with the apron on he can't "reach". 

I haven't had it long enough to see if it truly works, but so far I am pleased with it.

http://www.houseofbacchuspetsupplies.com/anti-mating-aprons-s/118.htm


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## Goat Whisperer (Aug 1, 2017)

I think it would be okay on young bucks, but no way would I trust it on a mature buck. I would still be worried when running a buck in with young does. 

And a buck could still harass the doe 
Nigies go into heat every three weeks. So will the buck be harassing her for three days, every three weeks. I'm not talking about young bucks, I'm talking about mature animals. 

I would also be worried that the buck could get tangled or caught up in it. I can't leave collars on my bucks for when I did, they nearly killed themselves.


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## Eliya Sage (Aug 6, 2017)

Hey! I was wondering about your opinions about the stress a doe gets when she's kept with a buck. If we got a doe and a buck, we'd put an apron on him to block breeding, but if he mounted, he'd still stress her out.. I'm just wondering how severe this stress would be, If the doe had horns, and was a tad larger than a pygmy polled buck? If she was larger, _And_ had horns, she could protect herself when she wasn't in the mood. _right?
-Thanks for your opinions!_


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## Eliya Sage (Aug 6, 2017)

Wow. So is this apron thing, a new thing? I was on TheGoatSpot and found out about aprons, and now i came back and it's on here now :O
(Actually, i found the same bacchus person!)
Oh, Goat Whisperer, i here lots of people use them on mature bucks, and if it's kept on, it works great at blocking the buck. Some people have trouble about it becoming unclipped, but i'm sure you could do lots of different things to make it harder for it to unbuckle. And http://www.houseofbacchuspetsupplies.com/anti-mating-aprons-s/118.htm, has simple aprons, it'd be _*very *_ difficult for them to get strangled with these. at *most*, maybe he'd het caught on something. But you shouldn't put an apron on  him if the buck is going out of screaming distance. He'd let you know if he got stuck! Even if you where out somewhere, he would either have broken the apron by the time you got home, or he'd be bleating. I don't think this should be used when they're going out of "bleating distance", but if they stay relatively close, you should have no problems 
(from what i've heard from people.)
~Let me say: I have _*never*_ used the apron myself. I am merely quoting what others have said.

Also, they say it nearly never comes off, accidentally, if the buck is normal shape. They said only 2 out of 30 goats got out of it, and it was because they where really thin and weirdly shaped. Mature bucks with the "full stomach look", shouldn't have any problems 
And maybe it is best to keep the clip the way it is. if the buck got caught on something, he could probably break out, if using enough force.


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 6, 2017)

You do not need to keep a buck and a doe together full time apron or not
She comes into heat he is going to chase her and try to breed her
He is going to chase off any other goats including babies
It is not only going to stress her but it is going to stress him as well
You are consistently getting the same answer on multiple forums.
It's not a good idea, but do what you want.

Maybe you should start with two does from a breeder who will later on let you use a buck for breeding.


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## Alaskan (Aug 6, 2017)

Eliya Sage said:


> Hey! I was wondering about your opinions about the stress a doe gets when she's kept with a buck. If we got a doe and a buck, we'd put an apron on him to block breeding, but if he mounted, he'd still stress her out.. I'm just wondering how severe this stress would be, If the doe had horns, and was a tad larger than a pygmy polled buck? If she was larger, _And_ had horns, she could protect herself when she wasn't in the mood. _right?
> -Thanks for your opinions!_



A buck really needs to be in a very well fenced pen or pasture.

The doe would be too easily hurt when pregnant to be kept with the buck.

Also, once the kids arrive, they would need to be separated so the kids stay safe.

And, even though some people say it isn't noticeable... other people say that if the buck is close to the milking does that the milk tastes just aweful. 

Lots of reasons that everything would be more peaceful if you kept them separate.

Or.... you could just have two does, and pay for a "date" with a buck whenever needed.  So much easier IMO.  (I do not own a buck)


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## Eliya Sage (Aug 7, 2017)

yeah................. i do understand, I kept getting the same answers but kept asking, because i just thought there's got to be more than just the goat owners i know who keep their buck with their doe...  The _only _people i know with goats, keep bucks and does. And then nobody on here does that. Probably because the people i know, aren't raising 200 goats.. they just read how to take care of them, and made sure they got everything set up, and bought some. I guess the idea that a male and a female couldn't be kept together had never crossed their minds. It does seem silly, yet everyone has a million reasons why you shouldn't. I keep thinking "Is this _seriously_ a problem? they live in herds of bucks and does in the wild, and if does would get hurt that often, then God wouldn't have made them herd animals.." then i  think "But maybe it's just a problem when in captivity because their monitored, and we know when they're hurt.." and then "But.. Still. God _made_ them to live side by side.."      I don't know. There are a million reasons why it'd be fine, and then a million reasons why you should never do it. I don't know. I wish it was clearer. Yet it seems when it comes to goats, Everyone has an opinion and that opinion is split in half. You either go safe with one side, or jump into something because half the people say it's totally safe. This seems like the case with everything.
Aprons work, No they don't.
You can keep bucks with does! OF COURSE YOU CAN'T!
You can feed them this! NO THATS POISONOUS!
Dehorning goats is perfectly fine! NO IT'S ANIMAL ABUSE!!!

...Kinda like everything else.
You should vote for bla bla bla, NO OML, VOTE FOR THEM!
You should eat bread! NO, IT'S BAD FOR YOU!
Everybody's got what they think is best......The hard part is picking which you think is right.... Do i go safe, and get a doe? Keep her with my weathers, and find someone who'll breed their buck to the doe, when needed,    or do i get a buck, say heck to what i've heard, and go basic... I could also offer stud service... help pay for goat fees... there isn't really one near me that offers stud service.. I know one guy, where i got my pygmies, he kept  his bucks with the does.. but didn't offer stud service, to my knowledge, but we lost contact when my dad broke his phone and lost his contact info.. (If your a dude and sold two pygmy weathers, off craigslist, was late for work for us, and sold them to a teenager, in the NC area, PM me, If you recognize the goats in the picture.) I was really bummed because he was the one who told us if we're starting off, we should start with weathers. And he weathered them right in front of us to show us what to do,Free of charge, and he even offered to show us how to give them vaccinations when it came around.. for free.........  I was really upset. it'd really help to have someone in my area. Or if we needed to go on vacation, we could've paid him to watch them, and feel good about their safety..  He had lots of goats.. AND OSTRICHES. When we paid him for the goats, he was like, "Yeah, and tell me if you wanna buy an ostrich" we laughed and then looked at him and realized he wasn't kidding. He had tons of land and i can't help but wonder what else he had..

-I think we're gonna get a ND, find one already freshened or about to give birth. That way we can milk her almost right away, and have time to find a buck near us... The other person we know has two Nubian Boers, a buck and a doe, along with their kids. I wonder how you ask someone if you can set up a date with their goat???    
-Please someone help me find a way to ask this, where it won't be awkward. I'm a teenager and not exactly what you'd expect me to ask. It'd suck if it was too awkward, and we had to stop going there. He sells sweedfeed for $12 where the last place sold it for $17..
Maybe in a few years, we'll get a buckling off craiglist, raise him, and see how he does with our future doe. if not, we can sell him.... (We'll be used to sellings kids by then. We're not going to keep the kids our doe has.).............If he doesn't do well with our goats, we won't have much a choice.


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 7, 2017)

Eliya Sage said:


> -I think we're gonna get a ND, find one already freshened or about to give birth. That way we can milk her almost right away, and have time to find a buck near us... The other person we know has two Nubian Boers, a buck and a doe, along with their kids. I wonder how you ask someone if you can set up a date with their goat???


Do NOT breed a standard sized goat to a miniature. That is too dangerous on the doe. Some people offer stud service if you run certain biosecurity tests, not that that's without risks...

A local veterinarian may be able to come out to your place and help you with drawing blood for testing, vaccinations, answering questions, etc. That's always helpful.


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## Alaskan (Aug 7, 2017)

Eliya Sage said:


> they live in herds of bucks and does in the wild


In the wild the goats have space.

They all have space.

Space cures most ills.

In a captive environment there are lots of spots where one animal can get cornered or pinned down.  That is where most problems occur.


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 7, 2017)

Alaskan said:


> In the wild the goats have space.
> 
> They all have space.
> 
> ...


I have also thought (I may be wrong about this) Nigerians were bred so they can breed year round whereas most goats are seasonal breeders. That would limit breeding to a point in wild goats. I would not house a buck and doe together indefinitely.


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 7, 2017)

This is a great place to learn
You mention you are in NC?
We are too and have Nigerians
I know a lot of breeders throughout the state
Would be glad to help if I can
@Goat Whisperer is a great Nigerian breeder too


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## Goat Whisperer (Aug 7, 2017)

I was going to say the same thing @Green Acres Farm 

If they were seasonal breeders it would be better, but still not the best practice 

The apron may work for some, but like I said I would never trust it. And they can still get caught in it. Maybe not strangle but anything around the body of a goat IMO can cause issues. It seems like one of those things where it's fine intil it's not. But that is just MHO 

While the does are pregnant they release different hormones. Those hormones can cause the buck to think the doe is in heat and- sometimes causing the buck to chase the already pregnant doe- and causing her to abort. This actually happened to a member on this forum years ago…

You are also more likely to deal with behavioral problems. Nigies cycle every three weeks. If you are running the buck in with them full time but are using the apron you are going to have a very frustrated buck. When they are frustrated they cause problems (like being aggressive towards humans, goats). If they are always dealing with this stress they will not keep adequate body condition. We are all speaking out of experience here, we have these animals and have been breeding and raising them for years. Everyone here is trying to look out for you and your animals- no one wants to see anything bad happen and it seems like everyone is trying to warn you. You can take it or leave it but hopefully you are educated on the matter 

Like OFA said- there are many many ND breeders here in NC. We do a lot of teaching on our farm. Last year our extension agency asked us to teach a class involving dairy goats in Greensboro. That same year they asked if they could bring about 20 youth learning about livestock to do a farm tour- not something we generally do but in this case we allowed it. We haven't done much with public classes this year (not enough time) so most everything is private classes. 

We also have taught private classes on disbudding & tattooing, drawing blood, McMasters fecal analysis, proper hoof trimming, to name a few. 

Working with your local extension agents might be beneficial.


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## Eliya Sage (Aug 8, 2017)

Okay, Thanks guys!!! Really appreciate all your help! We're staying away from bucks. Hope i didn't stress non of ya'll out by persistently asking the same questions. (It still sounds slightly silly tbh.) But we're gonna play it safe. @Goat Whisperer, thats awesome! Sounds like your right around the corner! Will surely look into that! My mother is greatly concerned about getting too much milk, like we get too many eggs (we hand them out to our neighbors and at our church .) And we may even look into getting a pygmy doe, Just because, contrary to what most people say, They can milk. Some just have problems with cramps because of the small udders. I have very small hands though. Some pygmies have been recorded to produce 2 gallons of milk per day at the peek of their freshening. That seems like something worth looking further into, but i'm sure i can find some person who writes articles on it>>>>I really appreciate you guys!!!


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## Southern by choice (Aug 8, 2017)

Eliya Sage said:


> Some pygmies have been recorded to produce 2 gallons of milk per day at the peek of their freshening.



Sorry, that simply is just not true. Sadly far too many either exaggerate or flat out lie. I share this because I don't want you "taken". 
Saanens are the largest goats out there (about 200 lbs) and they can do 2 gallons+ per day... a pygmy is not a dairy goat ... a good Nigerian which_ is _a dairy breed isn't going to give that either.


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## OneFineAcre (Aug 8, 2017)

No pygmy has ever given 2 gallons.
2 quarts maybe.


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## Green Acres Farm (Aug 8, 2017)

Also keep in mind, it is not just the amount of milk at the peak of lactation of a goat that makes it a good milker, you also want them to steadily keep on producing for you. You may find a pygmy that gives say, a quart at its peak, but I would also be wondering how long they could sustain that. If you are wanting milk, I would go with a dairy breed with the production numbers and lactation lengths you are looking for.


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## Alaskan (Aug 8, 2017)

Truth.

I hear of people getting milk goats, even dairy breeds,  but they are not careful enough to ask about how well mom milked etc....

Then they get 3 cups a day 4 months into lactation.   Barf. 

I wouldn't stand for that.


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