# Triplets twice...will she carry triplets again?



## Gabriella (Sep 6, 2021)

This spring I brought a new ND doe into my herd. She has freshened twice and had triplets both times. She is confirmed pregnant and a little over 2 months along. Do you you find that if your doe has had triplets twice in a row, that they will again have triplets or even possibly quads? I would absolutely love multiples  from her and she is already filling out so much. What is your experience with trends in the number of kids your does have?


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## Gabriella (Sep 7, 2021)

Bump


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## animalmom (Sep 7, 2021)

Past performance is no guarantee, but you could ask your vet to ultrasound her.

Hope she does multiples for you.


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## Alaskan (Sep 7, 2021)

Gabriella said:


> This spring I brought a new ND doe into my herd. She has freshened twice and had triplets both times. She is confirmed pregnant and a little over 2 months along. Do you you find that if your doe has had triplets twice in a row, that they will again have triplets or even possibly quads? I would absolutely love multiples  from her and she is already filling out so much. What is your experience with trends in the number of kids your does have?


Yes, those that throw triplets tend to keep going that way.

And those that throw singles tend to throw singles.


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## Gabriella (Sep 8, 2021)

animalmom said:


> Past performance is no guarantee, but you could ask your vet to ultrasound her.
> 
> Hope she does multiples for you.


I had them ultrasounded to confirm pregnancy but the babies were too big with the probe she was using (long, flat probe vs. the small round one... we did get to see gender on 2 babies tho!) to see anything behind baby #1.


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## Mini Horses (Sep 8, 2021)

Several yrs ago I bought an F1 mini Nubian, along with her month old doeling.  She was a first freshener.   Following year, trips...all boys.  For four more years, same!! Trip boys.  Then trips with 2 boys and a girl....I swear, I almost pulled her tail off re-checking!   Meanwhile, the doeing I had purchased with her began her motherhood with trips -- boys!!!  Repeated 2 more years of same.   What a pattern.   🤔    Sold them as I had gravitated to full sized, no minis.

The last birthing, I kept the only daughter.   She has produced 2 sets of twins...3 girls, 1 boy.   More usual production.  But ND do tend to have trips and quads more than full sized girls....doesn't seem fair.

I have two Saanen who have had trips at least once...they are twin sisters.  One of their daughters has tripped once, twins this year.

Quite often a well flushed doe will produce the multi.  You have a chance...no guarantee.


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## Gabriella (Sep 9, 2021)

Mini Horses said:


> Several yrs ago I bought an F1 mini Nubian, along with her month old doeling.  She was a first freshener.   Following year, trips...all boys.  For four more years, same!! Trip boys.  Then trips with 2 boys and a girl....I swear, I almost pulled her tail off re-checking!   Meanwhile, the doeing I had purchased with her began her motherhood with trips -- boys!!!  Repeated 2 more years of same.   What a pattern.   🤔    Sold them as I had gravitated to full sized, no minis.
> 
> The last birthing, I kept the only daughter.   She has produced 2 sets of twins...3 girls, 1 boy.   More usual production.  But ND do tend to have trips and quads more than full sized girls....doesn't seem fair.
> 
> ...


That is really interesting that even the gender seemed to be a pattern....wow!


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## farmerjan (Sep 9, 2021)

I have a cow "family" that has 75% bull calves..... the mother, daughters that I have managed to keep, they all have 3 or 4 bulls for every heifer they have had.  I have 2 daughters out of the original cow, and maybe 2 or 3 daughters out of them.... 
And one of my old original beef cows had  11 heifers and 2 bull calves in her entire life.... have a couple of her grand daughters and great grand daughters in the herd....... that was over 30 years ago when I got her as a baby calf to put on a nurse cow....


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## Gabriella (Sep 9, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> I have a cow "family" that has 75% bull calves..... the mother, daughters that I have managed to keep, they all have 3 or 4 bulls for every heifer they have had.  I have 2 daughters out of the original cow, and maybe 2 or 3 daughters out of them....
> And one of my old original beef cows had  11 heifers and 2 bull calves in her entire life.... have a couple of her grand daughters and great grand daughters in the herd....... that was over 30 years ago when I got her as a baby calf to put on a nurse cow....


I would've never thought that gender would follow a pattern as well....wow, that is crazy. I am so curious now to see how this goes for my herd!


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## Mini Horses (Sep 10, 2021)

While gender is controlled by sperm, basically, it has been proven that the uterus chemicals CAN be negative to  either male or female sperm.  PH thought to be part of this.  This can prevent the attachment of one sex or another from attaching and maturing.  It appears to be far less evident in most....so a few will tend to produce all or most of one sex.   Similarly, some males CAN produce more sperm carrying for male/ female.

I've had a mare who produced only males over 13 years of breeding regularly.  You can see how this can be passed in a family.  Mother Nature at work.


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## farmerjan (Sep 10, 2021)

Also, timing of the breeding.  It has been the opinion of some vets, that the PH changes as the length of the cycle... so early in the heat the ph is more acidic which is supposed to favor the male carrying sperm... and the later in the heat it becomes more alkaline which is supposed to favor the female carrying sperm. Or vice versa... I can't remember which... Breeding at the beginning of the heat favors the male carrying sperm to reach the egg, and later favors the female carrying sperm... People have tried all sorts of different things to get the desired sex of the off spring.  Now we have already sexed semen in cattle, so you have a much better chance of getting the sex you want... but it is not 100% guaranteed.  We have certain drugs we can give to cause multiple eggs to reach maturation and get released at the same time...
Case in point.  I had a cow that I desperately wanted a heifer calf out of.  Used female sexed semen on her. Several different years..... In the sexed semen there is a great percentage of the sperm carrying the sex you want but not every single one... they say 90-95% accurate.   She had a bull calf everytime......the only heifer calf she ever had was by an accidental breeding by the farmers bull (she was on a dairy farm) and it was the day after he had seen her heat and did not breed her.... it was really too soon after she had calved... not 40 days yet.....and the next morning the bull had gotten into the field with the milking cows....so she got bred late in her heat cycle.... 
Luck of the draw.


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## Gabriella (Sep 10, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Also, timing of the breeding.  It has been the opinion of some vets, that the PH changes as the length of the cycle... so early in the heat the ph is more acidic which is supposed to favor the male carrying sperm... and the later in the heat it becomes more alkaline which is supposed to favor the female carrying sperm. Or vice versa... I can't remember which... Breeding at the beginning of the heat favors the male carrying sperm to reach the egg, and later favors the female carrying sperm... People have tried all sorts of different things to get the desired sex of the off spring.  Now we have already sexed semen in cattle, so you have a much better chance of getting the sex you want... but it is not 100% guaranteed.  We have certain drugs we can give to cause multiple eggs to reach maturation and get released at the same time...
> Case in point.  I had a cow that I desperately wanted a heifer calf out of.  Used female sexed semen on her. Several different years..... In the sexed semen there is a great percentage of the sperm carrying the sex you want but not every single one... they say 90-95% accurate.   She had a bull calf everytime......the only heifer calf she ever had was by an accidental breeding by the farmers bull (she was on a dairy farm) and it was the day after he had seen her heat and did not breed her.... it was really too soon after she had calved... not 40 days yet.....and the next morning the bull had gotten into the field with the milking cows....so she got bred late in her heat cycle....
> Luck of the dra





farmerjan said:


> Also, timing of the breeding.  It has been the opinion of some vets, that the PH changes as the length of the cycle... so early in the heat the ph is more acidic which is supposed to favor the male carrying sperm... and the later in the heat it becomes more alkaline which is supposed to favor the female carrying sperm. Or vice versa... I can't remember which... Breeding at the beginning of the heat favors the male carrying sperm to reach the egg, and later favors the female carrying sperm... People have tried all sorts of different things to get the desired sex of the off spring.  Now we have already sexed semen in cattle, so you have a much better chance of getting the sex you want... but it is not 100% guaranteed.  We have certain drugs we can give to cause multiple eggs to reach maturation and get released at the same time...
> Case in point.  I had a cow that I desperately wanted a heifer calf out of.  Used female sexed semen on her. Several different years..... In the sexed semen there is a great percentage of the sperm carrying the sex you want but not every single one... they say 90-95% accurate.   She had a bull calf everytime......the only heifer calf she ever had was by an accidental breeding by the farmers bull (she was on a dairy farm) and it was the day after he had seen her heat and did not breed her.... it was really too soon after she had calved... not 40 days yet.....and the next morning the bull had gotten into the field with the milking cows....so she got bred late in her heat cycle....
> Luck of the draw.


I put the buck right in with the girls for 2 weeks.  So, I'm thinking statistically I'm probably more likely to have bucklings.  I'm so interested to see this all pan out. I'm really hoping for 1 keeper doeling but I guess we can do what we want.  Ultimately its up to Him. 🤷‍♀️


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## farmerjan (Sep 10, 2021)

Why only 2 weeks?  If they did not catch, he was not in there long enough to maybe catch the next heat.  I am talking the timing during the heat cycle which lasts 6-30 hours for most animals... then they come back in heat in an average of 21 days, but can be from 18-24... I think you need to find a good book and read up on all the phases of goats... and learn about their "cycles"  ... heats, breeding, days between cycles, the role the ovaries and the hormones play in breeding and such....the length of gestation, kidding,  and all that.   The buck being in for 2 weeks will have no bearing on bucks or does being born....

We run our bulls in with the cows for a MINIMUM of 45 days, usually 65-90 days.....
Day one, put the bull in... cows start coming in heat....cow number 1 came in heat the first day, cow 10 the 5th day, cow 20 on the 15th day, cow #2 came in heat on the 20th day because she had just gone out of heat the day BEFORE we put the bull in.   So the bull stays in there for at least another full 21 day cycle... in case cow #2 did not catch on day 20 and comes back in heat on day 41......and we have cow #8 that is on a 23 day cycle, so she doesn't come in heat until day 23 and then again on day 46 if she doesn't settle to the first breeding...


I suggest you do some internet research... LSU has a good couple of pages on photo estrus cycles in sheep and goats.... there is lots of info out there if you look it up.


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## Gabriella (Sep 10, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Also, timing of the breeding.  It has been the opinion of some vets, that the PH changes as the length of the cycle... so early in the heat the ph is more acidic which is supposed to favor the male carrying sperm... and the later in the heat it becomes more alkaline which is supposed to favor the female carrying sperm. Or vice versa... I can't remember which... Breeding at the beginning of the heat favors the male carrying sperm to reach the egg, and later favors the female carrying sperm... People have tried all sorts of different things to get the desired sex of the off spring.  Now we have already sexed semen in cattle, so you have a much better chance of getting the sex you want... but it is not 100% guaranteed.  We have certain drugs we can give to cause multiple eggs to reach maturation and get released at the same time...
> Case in point.  I had a cow that I desperately wanted a heifer calf out of.  Used female sexed semen on her. Several different years..... In the sexed semen there is a great percentage of the sperm carrying the sex you want but not every single one... they say 90-95% accurate.   She had a bull calf everytime......the only heifer calf she ever had was by an accidental breeding by the farmers bull (she was on a dairy farm) and it was the day after he had seen her heat and did not breed her.... it was really too soon after she had calved... not 40 days yet.....and the next morning the bull had gotten into the field with the milking cows....so she got bred late in her heat cycle....
> Luck of the dra





farmerjan said:


> Why only 2 weeks?  If they did not catch, he was not in there long enough to maybe catch the next heat.  I am talking the timing during the heat cycle which lasts 6-30 hours for most animals... then they come back in heat in an average of 21 days, but can be from 18-24... I think you need to find a good book and read up on all the phases of goats... and learn about their "cycles"  ... heats, breeding, days between cycles, the role the ovaries and the hormones play in breeding and such....the length of gestation, kidding,  and all that.   The buck being in for 2 weeks will have no bearing on bucks or does being born....
> 
> We run our bulls in with the cows for a MINIMUM of 45 days, usually 65-90 days.....
> Day one, put the bull in... cows start coming in heat....cow number 1 came in heat the first day, cow 10 the 5th day, cow 20 on the 15th day, cow #2 came in heat on the 20th day because she had just gone out of heat the day BEFORE we put the bull in.   So the bull stays in there for at least another full 21 day cycle... in case cow #2 did not catch on day 20 and comes back in heat on day 41......and we have cow #8 that is on a 23 day cycle, so she doesn't come in heat until day 23 and then again on day 46 if she doesn't settle to the first breeding...
> ...


Since I don't have a buck on my farm,  bringing a buck in induces estrus. The 3 girls I bred all stood within 15 days and all 3 settled and are confirmed via ultrasound. I only kept him on the grounds for 1 heat because of when their due dates would fall if he stayed any later (I'm in Western NY and it gets VERY cold here.) If they hadn't settled, I would've brought him back in November for 2 cycles to plan for spring babies. My point of him being brought in, was since that induces estrus in does that are not within 2 miles of a buck regularly, he would've brought them into heat, therefore, would've likely bred them at the very first possible moment that they would stand, making it early in their cycle.  So, if there is validity to a higher likelihood earlier in the cycle,  then I'll statistically be more likely to have boys.


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## farmerjan (Sep 11, 2021)

Gabriella said:


> Since I don't have a buck on my farm,  bringing a buck in induces estrus. The 3 girls I bred all stood within 15 days and all 3 settled and are confirmed via ultrasound. I only kept him on the grounds for 1 heat because of when their due dates would fall if he stayed any later (I'm in Western NY and it gets VERY cold here.) If they hadn't settled, I would've brought him back in November for 2 cycles to plan for spring babies. My point of him being brought in, was since that induces estrus in does that are not within 2 miles of a buck regularly, he would've brought them into heat, therefore, would've likely bred them at the very first possible moment that they would stand, making it early in their cycle.  So, if there is validity to a higher likelihood earlier in the cycle,  then I'll statistically be more likely to have boys.


Okay, I see where you are coming from.  Glad you have a vet that can do ultrasound on the goats... many can't.  We do both ultrasound and some palpation on our cattle for preg checks. They can only tell sex during a short window on the preg checks and we usually check long after that window when we bring cattle home from pasture for the winter.  The cows come in heat with or without a bull around...
Hope that the "prediction" of early breeding does not fall true and you get some doe kids instead of buck kids !!!!


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## Gabriella (Sep 11, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Okay, I see where you are coming from.  Glad you have a vet that can do ultrasound on the goats... many can't.  We do both ultrasound and some palpation on our cattle for preg checks. They can only tell sex during a short window on the preg checks and we usually check long after that window when we bring cattle home from pasture for the winter.  The cows come in heat with or without a bull around...
> Hope that the "prediction" of early breeding does not fall true and you get some doe kids instead of buck kids !!!!


With the goats we waited a little bit which was cool to see the gender but unfortunately, they were not able to see behind the 1st baby to check for multiples... next time I think I'll go earlier. I'd rather have a count than genders I think.  Either way,  my family is so looking forward to this kidding season!!!!! 🥰


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## animalmom (Sep 11, 2021)

Pictures!  Please don't forget pictures!


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## Gabriella (Sep 11, 2021)

animalmom said:


> Pictures!  Please don't forget pictures!


I'll get some and post!!


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## Gabriella (Sep 11, 2021)

She is 90 days along and had twins her last kidding.


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## Gabriella (Sep 11, 2021)

The brown 1 to the left is 64 days along and is a FF. 

,


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## Gabriella (Sep 11, 2021)

This girl is 68 days along and the photo doesn't do it justice....she is HUGE!!! This will be her 3rd kidding and she had triplets her 1st and 2nd time.


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## Gabriella (Sep 11, 2021)

Gabriella said:


> I'll get some and post!!


Posted pics of all 3 of them!!


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## farmerjan (Sep 11, 2021)

Well, the little one is either carrying a half grown one.... or she has multiples again.... I have friends that have goats and I used to "farm sit" when they had to go anywhere.... I could not get over how a goat will look like she literally has a watermelon stuck in there sideways..... They get even more distended looking than sheep that have multiples....


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## Gabriella (Sep 11, 2021)

farmerjan said:


> Well, the little one is either carrying a half grown one.... or she has multiples again.... I have friends that have goats and I used to "farm sit" when they had to go anywhere.... I could not get over how a goat will look like she literally has a watermelon stuck in there sideways..... They get even more distended looking than sheep that have multiples....


They really do.... they just all of a sudden got huge.  I couldn't believe it and dates are verified by ultrasound. I will be so excited for multiples!!!


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## Mini Horses (Sep 11, 2021)

Isn't it fun playing the lottery?


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