# Ignorant musings on meat shortages



## Xerocles (May 7, 2020)

IGNORANT because I'm not a farmer. Much less,a farmer who supplies on a regional or national level. So, this is just my ignorant musings.
Eggs are being dumped. Milk is being dumped. Hogs are being euthanized and buried. And there is a looming meat shortage.
Now I'm NOT in favor of the government stepping in and "managing" things, but in fact it's happening (through necessity?) already. So, why not set a period, say 6 months, of price control and, if necessary, government buyback. Instead of giving money to farmers for losses they incur, set a guaranteed limit (say 5% above cost, and EVERY commodity board can tell us instantly what it costs, per animal, to raise said animal...i.e. $140/hog so you gotta sell at $147)
Sure, that means the farmer is working for free (basically) during this period, but better than killing, dumping, and sitting on your butt waiting on bankruptcy. When things start hopping again, at least the farmer doesn't have to go through the time lag of building inventory.
Dumping eggs? Dumping milk? Due to bottlenecks at processing plants? Sell, unprocessed, to farmers, in bulk. Hogs do like milk and eggs?
Processing bottlenecks?  The President has declared processors essential. But that means little if the actual workers don't show up for work. But, run the plants at skeleton crews, if necessary. Do less processing. The consumer wants to buy chicken? Ok. They buy a whole chicken. No boneless, skinless breast fillets. No pre-cut pieces. Whole chickens. Cut it yourself. Maybe not as "pretty" as the professionals, but will still taste the same. And there should be no "shortages" of chicken.
Pork? Same. Buy a leg. Buy half a leg. Buy a quarter of a loin. Half a loin. Butcher (in the crudest sense) at home. Again, pretty meat cuts or available meat? Lack of "processing equipment" in the home?  Every home has a knife. Debone it. Beat it with a mallet (or the edge of a saucer like my Mom used to do). No grinder? Use little chunks instead of hamburger. My understanding of the processing process is that the final "consumer ready" piecing uses the VAST majority of time and labor.
After the 6 months are up, let the free market take over again. The farmers will definitely have to tighten their belts during this time. But better to tighten for 6 months and be ready to come out swinging, than to dump/bury inventory. Meanwhile, the consumer is tightening his belt because there isn't enough food to keep his waist at the same size. 
Maybe even resort to temporary "rationing" cards, like during the wars. Forget food stamps. Where the individual makes choices where the entire allowance can be spent on soda and potato chips. Out of work because you're "non-essential"? Rationing cards allowing "x" lbs of meat, etc. Don't like being told what food you're allowed to get? Then refuse to use it. Like Mama used to say at supper time. Eat what's put in front of you, or go to bed hungry. Give people unemployment $ and trust them tho act responsibly? Please!  It's an emergency. Some of the same ppl who get cash due to unemployment will be the same one's who will be on the news next week, selling their aluminum cans (which they used their unemployment to buy last week full of beer) and crying because they're hungry.
Tough choices? Heck yeah. IT'S AN EMERGENCY PEOPLE! If you're lost in the wilderness, you WILL eat grubs, bugs, and worms...and drink water from a muddy boot print rather than die. Personally, I'd rather hack up some chunk of pork I've never seen before than to go hungry because there is a shortage of boneless pork filets.
I know, I know. This scenario has holes big enough to drive a semi full of pork through. I didn't say it was a full thought out plan. Just a rambling collection of thoughts brought on by seeing that what's being done now is NOT working. 
Have at it. Destroy it. But better to light one candle than curse the darkness.


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## Grant (May 7, 2020)

It’s probably not even the processing that’s the bottleneck, it’s likely that the biggest issue is packaging.  Consumers like things pretty.  Ever wander why butchers use paper, but grocery stores have things displayed. Paper is fast, easy and cheap, but consumers don’t want to buy it like that.


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## farmerjan (May 9, 2020)

@Grant   It is for the most part the processing that is the problem.  Your thoughts make alot of sense..... and I basically agree with alot of it.  But this country is not hungry enough for the masses to do more than moan and groan and B$#@h about it yet.    Plus, you get into the fact of biosecurity on most farms.  and how do you handle people coming to get the animals because there aren't any plants to kill them??? Seriously, it is for the most part at the plants because it all has to operate at the same basic "speed" to not get the backups.  
Eggs that are being dumped are mostly from the hen houses that produce the fertile eggs to be set in incubators to hatch out for the broiler chicks.  They cannot package them in cartons because the collection and all is not set up for that kind of collection.  They do not have the washing facilities, the grading facilities or the  packaging into cartons facilities to do it.  They are often rolled down a conveyor out of the houses into a room where they are put into flats that hold like 5 dozen or more eggs for transport to the hatcheries where they are sorted and graded and washed or whatever and put into the incubators. The one farmer I have that just put up his 2nd house never touches the eggs until they are in the collection room and that is to make sure they are running correctly into the collection flats for transport.  Unbelieveable how mechanized it is.  
I can not even go up and look in the houses for fear of tracking some sort of disease in there.  
So if they are slowing down the "setting" of eggs in the incubator, they are just sitting there and no where to go and no practical way to get to where they need to be.  It would be better to give them to food banks even, but they don't have the manpower to go get them.  Or any way to handle them.  
Some eggs from regular layers that used to go to restaurants for food service are being redirected to boxing, but the machinery is not there to do so.  And they could be moved more to other places but there is no manpower there to do it.  And, no there is no difference in eating the eggs from the regular layers or the meat hens fertile eggs as far as general quality, but there are people who don't want to eat fertile eggs..... what they don't know won't hurt them and might keep them alive, but that is another whole story.  

It is the mechanics of getting them to a different place for a different type of processing.  

The hogs are the saddest as the plants that shut down just threw a whole business into a complete disaster.  Hogs that are ready to process, cannot be held for very long as they start to cost way more in feed than what they are gaining... lost feed conversion rate.  Most of the times the hogs can get diverted to a different plant if there is a problem at one.  But the whole industry has gone on shut down or way reduced killing capacity.  If it was one plant they could shuffle.  But there are approx 70,000 hogs killed daily..... at reduced capacity,  even if every plant was open at reduced capacity, that causes a backup in a hurry.  They can't hold them for more than 10days-2 weeks because there is another batch of piglets ready to come in to take their place to start growing.   So what the guys are doing is giving the sows shots to abort, so they aren't producing more pigs.... to slow down the "conveyor belt"  so there aren't more coming along to take the place of the ones that haven't moved out yet.  Some have tried to put the ready hogs on a "maintenance" ration to try to hold for a few days....weeks.... while the piglets behind them are housed in places that they weren' meant to be to try to slow down the push.  But they can't do that for very long.  These hogs also will get feet and leg problems as they get bigger, the cuts of the meat get bigger and the consumer doesn't want them.  Believe me, I know a couple of guys that are nearly in tears over having to kill perfectly good hogs.  I know a few tractor trailer loads that have come east on backloads to just see if they can sell some at regular stockyards here...... Giving the hogs to guys just so they don't have to shoot them and bury them there. 

Then you get into another problem.  Because the hogs are often contracted, the slaughter plants can say that if you shoot them we will pay you xx amount.  If you can't account for them, you get nothing.  SMITHFIELD is owned by a Chinese conglomerate.... and they visited the SD plant about 2-3 weeks before the "outbreak" of the c-virus that the workers started getting sick from..........GEE,    makes you wonder......

JBS, the brazilian owned and very CORRUPT,  one of the 4 largest packing companies in the world also control a large portion of the hog  slaughter....... 

These companies are making a killing on the meat in storage now since the prices are going up.... they don't really care. 

The beef market is another thing and it will be able to ride this for awhile as far as not having to kill off animals..... but the price of "boxed beef" has gone from an average of $225/ 100 lb boxes of prime or select cuts..... to over $400 for the same box of beef and the farmer is getting less than 1.00/ lb for their 12-1500 lb steer ready to go to the slaughter plant.  IN A MONTHS TIME.  You think that isn't getting screwed RAPED and your throat cut..... Partly because we have put in so many stupid regulations so that it has all been funneled into the big plants.  The little local STATE INSPECTED butchers have to fight the regs and they cannot sell to anything like a grocery store.  You have to be USDA inspected for sale to a store for resale.  It is ridiculous.   Big companies, big money, lots of corrupt influence over the years....

There is a senator from KY that has proposed a bill AGAIN to allow small butchers to be able to sell meat directly to stores within their state if they are state inspected.... there are other restrictions.... but it will allow these smaller guys to have other options than to just kill for local people for their own use.  I will be able to take my animal in there, have it killed and it can go to a local store...... without the extra hassle and cost of the USDA BS regulations.  
This won't bring back all the small plants that have closed but might help some others to reopen, and to give the small guy like we are the ability to have other options than to just go to the stockyards and the feeders get shipped elsewhere to be fed out and to get into the bottleneck that the big packers have managed to dominate.  It might get some smaller feedlots to start up, where there were some years ago.  Get our food supply more regional and get more competition for the animals.  Utilize land that used to be grazed, and allow a small time farmer be able to take his finished beef, go to his LOCAL STATE INSPECTED butcher, and sell his beef at the farmers market, or let me kill a cow and sell my neighbor 25 lbs of hamburger without the USDA label...

We have lost so many of the small local, regional slaughter markets that were here 25-40 years ago because of the rules and regulations.  If it is state inspected, then it has to meet certain criteria.  Why should I have to pay an extra .50 per pound to have a usda inspector at the slaughter house just so I can sell meat by the piece...... with basically no extra "health regulations" to be met.... It is a racket......The USDA inspector has to have his own office, his own bathroom, and all this other BS for no more reason that he has to approve the meat as it goes through the plant..... 
WHERE THE HELL is the USDA inspector for all the imported meat that comes into this country??????

SORRY, don't get me started..... 

Right now there are 4 companies that control 85% of the slaughter in this country..... it was likened to  a HUGE bridge for all the animals to go across to get killed..... and the plants can only take the animals through these channels..... so when a plant has a hiccup, they can get diverted through the traffic to another plant on the other side....   when all the plants suffer a slowdown due to worker problems... there is no where for them to go.  Then, when they do get processed,  the meat doesn't get sent to all the stores because there isn' t enough to go around, because they are working at a greatly reduced capacity.
If we had hundreds of small plants that  could handle even 50% of the slaughter,  the animals could get diverted to cross hundreds of small bridges, no bottlenecks..... plus there would be less concentration of workers, less would get sick, and the local stores could get with a local butcher and get some to keep his store supplied. 
And there would be fewer restrictions on who can sell to whom as it would be more of a free market system.... so the prices paid would be more equitable to the producers too.

Let's hope that this is enough of a wakeup call that this bill will get passed.  I believe it is knicknamed the "PRIME" bill....


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## Baymule (May 10, 2020)

AMEN and AMEN!!!


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## mystang89 (May 11, 2020)

Xerocles said:


> Sell, unprocessed, to farmers, in bulk. Hogs do like milk and eggs?


From my own personal view I think this is the key to survival for many farms, small and large along with person's who don't have the money to pay exhorbent process. They started need to open up the large Farmers to being able to sell their products to the average persons whether that be at a Farmers market or at a local butcher. I personally don't think the government has the right to say who you can sell your meat to and who you can't but that's neither here nor there. Even if it's short term so we can all get through this, the red tape needs to be cut now.


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## Mini Horses (May 11, 2020)

Xerocles said:


> I know, I know. This scenario has holes big enough to drive a semi full of pork through. I didn't say it was a full thought out plan. Just a rambling collection of thoughts brought on by seeing that what's being done now is NOT working.





farmerjan said:


> It is the mechanics of getting them to a different place for a different type of processing.




While the methods now used were put into place to "protect" the public, some was needed and some not.  With the population of apartment dwelling cities, processing was needed to provide food.  With that, rules were needed.  @farmerjan has it right and @Xerocles  I feel as you -- can we salvage something???

In olden times, back in the hills, you shot a deer, you butchered a hog, you canned your food, freely shared with others  -- and thanked God for it all.  In current times, you would be shocked at how many people can't cook, never mind cutting up a chicken!   Heck, I'm surprised they still know how to crack an egg.

I agree some of the "dumps" are so sad, frustrating and stressing.  But it is what it is.    

It was business as usual here as I dumped a gallon of raw goat milk, which I had set out to clabber, into chicken feeder bowls for the layers, broodies, roos awaiting freezer camp.   They happily consumed -- the goat happily gave me another gallon -- I happily worked in the garden -- for which I now have some achey muscles.  No waste here & plenty of food is raised, butchered/canned, cooked, shared.  Can't let the rest of the world get me down so long as I CAN do this, I'm good.

The olden days still live on here.    Some days I wonder if progress really WAS progress.   We "backyard farmers" are doing ok, for the most part.


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## mystang89 (May 11, 2020)

farmerjan said:


> But this country is not hungry enough for the masses to do more than moan and groan and B$#@h about it yet



Maybe the second round of this socialism will make a few more people a bit hungrier. Hungry enough to do more than moan and complain. Speak up.



farmerjan said:


> You think that isn't getting screwed RAPED and your throat cut..... Partly because we have put in so many stupid regulations so that it has all been funneled into the big plants. The little local STATE INSPECTED butchers have to fight the regs and they cannot sell to anything like a grocery store. You have to be USDA inspected for sale to a store for resale. It is ridiculous. Big companies, big money, lots of corrupt influence over the years....



I can't find the emote to show the love I have for that statement. This is the problem. For far too long has the American people given more and more power over their living to the government. What we eat, how it comes to us. This has made us feel reliant on Big Brother to come to our rescue when it's the American people who used to fend for ourselves. 



farmerjan said:


> We have lost so many of the small local, regional slaughter markets that were here 25-40 years ago because of the rules and regulations.





farmerjan said:


> SORRY, don't get me started.....



I won't stop you from getting started. I'd love to hear it.



farmerjan said:


> Let's hope that this is enough of a wakeup call that this bill will get passed. I believe it is knicknamed the "PRIME" bill....



Doesn't do enough in my opinion BUT, is this passes, it's a start. Every highway started as a small pathway.


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## mystang89 (May 11, 2020)

Mini Horses said:


> In current times, you would be shocked at how many people can't cook, never mind cutting up a chicken! Heck, I'm surprised they still know how to crack an egg.


It goes way passed that. Some people truly haven't a clue as to were their food even comes from. I'm sorry, when you get to that point in society, you've gone into crazy land that I have no clue how to return from. I wish they were just memes or funny jokes but even my nephew (20's) thought eggs came from rabbits. I've talked to people who truly believe beef came from the supermarket and didn't know why a person would kill a cow. How did we get here!? Read my above post again. We've relied to much on the government.


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## Jesusfreak101 (May 11, 2020)

Uh rabbits i can't touch that level of crazy...


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## Beekissed (May 11, 2020)

What I don't understand is this....why in the world would farmers rely on slaughter houses anyway?   If you know you will be slaughtering a cow or three each year, why not invest in facilities on your own place in which to do that?   I know why commercial operations do, but why the small local farmer does is beyond me.  

I know whole communities that come together to do their hog slaughtering, whole families that get together to slaughter beef off the farm, etc.   

Personally, after seeing and tasting meat from slaughter houses, I'd never trust them to give me my own beef/pork/lamb/deer back to me.  We do all our own butchering here, no matter the size of the animal.


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## Baymule (May 12, 2020)

We had a neighbor hog slaughtering party in 2017. Three families got full freezers. Now I raise a hog for us and for a paying customer, so I go USDA slaughter facility. Lambs likewise go to slaughter, chickens we do ourselves. I can and could slaughter my own hog or lamb, but to sell it, it is what it is. I intentionally chose small livestock for a SHTF situation. I consider this present Covid 19 a trial run. It may vastly improve or it may get worse, but this is nowhere near a true SHTF situation. 

I suggest that everyone take a hard look at their level of preparedness. While we can’t cover everything , we can do a lot to make our own and our neighbors and communities better in a SHTF situation. Even now, many people and communities are pulling together to help each other.


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## Mini Horses (May 12, 2020)

Farmers, butchering, facilities -- all depend on what a person's interpretation is for all of it.   Many "casual farmers" -- hobby, backyard, whatever term  -- those who do no make their living at it, well they only want "a part" of the life.   So, buying/breeding, raising is as far as they want to go.  Then blood & guts happens elsewhere.  They tell "Hamburger" bye & pick up wrapped beef.

Plus it is a lot of work & some have no help.   You have to know at least a little about anatomy, safe handling, have equipment.  If you think about it -- a lot less expensive to have it done and less stressful.   And, some States have laws regarding home slaughter & disposal of residuals.

I have land that would support hay making.   The equipment costs more than the next ten years of hay I would buy.   I don't make hay.   Same with some who stop at the butchering. 

I can understand it.


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## farmerjan (May 12, 2020)

Agree 1000000000%  @Mini Horses .  It is not practical for me to kill the chickens myself when I have 10-30 at a time.  I cannot do it here at this house, not allowed.   I am not talented enough to carve up a beef carcass.... I am good at skinning.  I would rather spread some of the "wealth" around to people who are better at some things than I am.  Plus the time it would take me to do it alone.  Not fun.  It becomes a real chore and then becomes something you don't want to do at all.... I CAN do alot of it myself... I just choose not to anymore.  My mom and I used to kill the meat chickens I raised as 4-H projects.  Again.... 2 to do it together.   It makes a difference especially when you get older.....


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## Baymule (May 13, 2020)

I have found one place that will slaughter an individual's chickens. One. It is 1 1/2 hours away and costs $5 per chicken. Not something that I would do, but I'm sure they get quite a few people who use their services. A hog is about as big as I want to do, I wouldn't want to tackle a beef, but I guess I could if I had to. I can do anything if I set my mind to.


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## farmerjan (May 13, 2020)

$5 is too much to do the chickens unless they are offering to cut them up (parts) if you want and package in vacuum bags. and freeze..... then it is STILL TOO much.  I paid $2 each last year, .50 extra for vacuum packing and they will freeze.  They don't part them out so next time I get more done, I will just have them put them in the freezer chests, no bags, not frozen, just cooled,  and part them out at home.  I have a vacuum sealer to do them so that's fine.  They are about an hour away, but it is worth it to me and worth the cost in allowing me to do something else that needs doing. Plus it is a real job to do when you are alone and all that time on my feet/legs/KNEES/ankle are just too much now.  
I don't blame you for not getting them done.  At least you have help with your husband helping with the plucking and stuff. And someone to talk to .....


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