# CL In Goats



## Neelie Nix (Feb 4, 2019)

Hello 
I have a boer/kiko buck that has Cl is what I am guessing it to be. We are still new to goats and this particular buck has breed my nannies. What are the chances that the babies will come out being positive with CL too? I am not sure how to treat him for this. The research that i have done says that this is something serious and needs to be culled out immediately. I am trying to start a goat farm and have been running into things since i started. I just do not want to go into this with a bad batch of goats. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you


----------



## babsbag (Feb 4, 2019)

Your kids will not have CL unless they have been exposed to the pus from a CL abscess. What makes you think that your buck has CL? I have had some nasty abscesses on my goats that were not CL.


----------



## Latestarter (Feb 4, 2019)

You really need to have the animal tested to be sure before you can make any realistic plans. You can draw blood from each and have everything tested all at once; CL, CAE, Johnes and the predominant ones.


----------



## Neelie Nix (Feb 5, 2019)

babsbag said:


> Your kids will not have CL unless they have been exposed to the pus from a CL abscess. What makes you think that your buck has CL? I have had some nasty abscesses on my goats that were not CL.




He had an abscess under his jaw line this summer. We immediately separated him from the rest of the goats. I took him to the vet the vet barely glanced at it said it was CL that I needed to cull him out immediately before it spread to the rest of my goats. The abscess finally burst and then I treated it with iodine solution and penicillin. He has acting healthy since then and about last week I noticed he had another spot around his shoulder area that was an abscess. It finally burst and it looks like the stuff that comes out of a bad pimple is the only way I know how to describe it. He each time he has been immediately separated from the herd so that the puss does not get into my soil or in the barn so that nonone else gets it.But we are going to get him and  everyone tested. i am just concerned that it will affect my does that he has breed. At the time of breeding he did not have any knots or open wounds.


----------



## Neelie Nix (Feb 5, 2019)

Latestarter said:


> You really need to have the animal tested to be sure before you can make any realistic plans. You can draw blood from each and have everything tested all at once; CL, CAE, Johnes and the predominant ones.





 We are in the process of getting him and everything else tested. Then see if we can get shots for everything. We are new to the goat business and have had some bad luck trying to get started seems one thing after another. If he does have it what should be my next step with him. I have read where some ppl still use the positive goat and just maintain the CL and treat it and the goat lives a normal life others have said to cull and cut your losses. I am unsure of the severity of this situation.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Feb 5, 2019)

Honestly, I'd go ahead and blood test the entire herd. Use a GOOD lab. We use UC davis in CA. The CL test is $14.50 per goat.
Other labs are not accredited and seem to have a lot of false + and - and can be complete nightmares. 

Once you get the tests go from there. Is the entire herd positive? Or just the buck? This will help you make some decisions. 

Sadly CL is common in meat goats. Some just look at it as part of owning meat goats. We don't feel this way and when we had meat goats, they were all tested and we maintained a disease free herd.

Look at the titres of each test. If your goat has very high titres but no external lumps, it is likely for that animal to have internal CL.

It is a shame the vet didn't pull any of the puss and send it for testing  Having the puss tested is the most accurate CL test.

Where on the shoulder was the abscess?    
This is a good pic of common CL locations.

IF the buck has CL, and has had two external abscesses in less then a year, I would look at culling him.
Some goats can have CL and go most of their life without lumps, honestly the buck would be too large of a risk- even if you were to keep a positive herd. I would be worried about internal CL at that point also. It will be interesting to see what the titres come back as.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Feb 5, 2019)

From a UC Davis newsletter: 
(Corynebacterium pseudotuberculosis is a bacterial organism that causes the disease commonly referred to as Caseous Lymphadenitis or CL.)

So it IS possible for kids to have CL. These 1 week old kids had it. Makes me wonder how. How a kids so young could develop this? 

I'm NOT saying this to scare you. Just thought it would be good to post.


----------



## babsbag (Feb 5, 2019)

I wonder if the dam had an abscess in or on the udder? That is still really young.


----------



## Neelie Nix (Feb 7, 2019)

Goat Whisperer said:


> Honestly, I'd go ahead and blood test the entire herd. Use a GOOD lab. We use UC davis in CA. The CL test is $14.50 per goat.
> Other labs are not accredited and seem to have a lot of false + and - and can be complete nightmares.
> 
> Once you get the tests go from there. Is the entire herd positive? Or just the buck? This will help you make some decisions.
> ...








Thank you for the information it is greatly appreciated and helpful. The first abscess was around the jaw line area the second was seems to be on the actual shoulder area not so much under the armpit or above it. He does not seem to be in pain or that nothing is bothering him. The vet did nothing really other than a visual and said oh yea that is CL do you want me to put him down today?? This abscess has already popped before I could get him to the another vet for testing. We are about test everyone else which we only have 4 other goats so my herd is not so big but would rather get this done so i can start a clean herd. The ppl I bought the buck from did not know they sold me a possible CL pos goat. After I told them that he got it shortly they had a out break of it at their farm.


----------



## Neelie Nix (Feb 7, 2019)

babsbag said:


> I wonder if the dam had an abscess in or on the udder? That is still really young.




I have heard that if the doe has an abscess on her udder or around the area at the time of nursing the babies can get it that way. I am still doing research on this. From what i have been told and researched the disease can only be transferred through the puss and mucus if there is an open wound. I got told the other night that it is not inherited.


----------



## Ridgetop (Feb 14, 2019)

If the abcess has opened, put on gloves and take a sample of the draining pus.  Put the sample in a baggy and have it tested.  This way you will have a quick test. 

Do not use the buck while the abcess is open.  There are other abcesses that are not CL, especially in sheep.  Shearing nicks can cause abcesses, as can foxtails that get trapped and burrow through wool to the skin.  That said, if any of our _goats _threw out what looked like an abcess lump, they were isolated and at the auction yard the next day. 

To be safe, I would test the whole herd every year, for CL, Johne's, and of course, CAE.  Then cull religiously.  I have never heard though that meat goats were especially prone to CL more so than any other breeds.  Sheep can also get CL, although abcesses on sheep are not always CL.  UC Davis is a good lab.  We used to use Washington State for our CAE blood draw testing.  Most of the labs will FAX the results to you so you don't have to wait for a snail mail report.


----------



## Goat Whisperer (Feb 14, 2019)

Ridgetop said:


> I have never heard though that meat goats were especially prone to CL more so than any other breeds.


I don’t think they are more prone to it, per say. Around here meat goat folks either don’t care, don’t know what it is, or don’t know they have it in their herd. Meat goats are not near as intensively managed as dairy goat herds. Also, around here, very few test for CL as it is, much less meat goat folks. They don’t even test for CAE or Johnes.


----------



## Ridgetop (Feb 14, 2019)

That is a shame that people are not willing to test, or don't have the information about these diseases. 

Regular abcesses downgrade carcass quality and lower the yield because you have to trim so much away around the abcess site.  That is why the meat industry put out advisories on how and where to vaccinate livestock.  A vaccination in the wrong place or with dirty equipment can cause an abcess to form in the meat necessitating excess trimming after slaughter.  For a while here the slaughterhouses were keeping track of animals with an eye to meat quality.  A producer bringing too many animals in with abcesses, injuries, bruising (bloodshot meat), or other carcass problems was downgraded and a penalty charged against his price per lb.  Peta aside, that, and illness, is one reason why it is illegal most places to slaughter a downed cow or other animal.  Back in the day before cows were tested for tuberculosis, (and mad cow or scrapie was identified as the producer of Jacob-Creutzfeld disease) an "unthrifty" cow would be culled to the butcher.  Possibly one reason so many cases of tuberculosis occurred in the early 1800-1900's, even in upper income families. 

CL abcesses don't just occur in the areas marked by goat Whisperer on her diagram.  Those are just the external sites that can be seen.  Caseous Lymphadenitis is a disease that causes infection in the lymph glands.  In later stages and in cases where there are no exterior signs, the lymph glands inside the body become infected causing internal abcesses to occur in the udder glands, internal organs, etc.  The animal can eventually die from the internal abcesses and the reason will not be known.  This is not a nice disease and meat producers should be testing for it.


----------



## Neelie Nix (Feb 15, 2019)

Thank you everyone for your help I am going to test om other goats for everything as well. He has been separated from the herd all together. I did not purchase him from the same ppl as i did my others so maybe this will help. It is just a hard decision to make when I am trying to get started with my herd and this happens. He was our main breeding billy.


----------

