# Breed confusion



## Teemarie (Jul 31, 2016)

Hi everyone! I'm new to the forum and looking for some clarify on a few of our bunny breeds. My daughter started our love of buns when she got a sweet little Dutch rabbit. Soon after, we adopted a Holland lop as well. Fast forward, we received 2 more buns from an animal auction in Amish country. 1 was said to be a flemish giant (Grey), the other an "angora" (Pippin). Grey and Pip manage some "along time" we didn't know about and now we have a litter of oops babies. They are absolutely adorable, but they all look very different from each other. So my big question is, what breed is Pip (the doe) because she definitely has wooly fur but doesn't look like an English angora and how did they manage to make such different looking babies? We think Grey may be an American chinchilla, not flemish, but they look so similar I could be wrong. Here's some pics for reference.
Babies: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




Close up of baby 1: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Close up of baby 2: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Pippin while being groomed. She was matted terribly when we got her: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Pips face: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



And big Grey: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Thanks so much for any insight you can give me!


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## TAH (Jul 31, 2016)

@Bunnylady @samssimonsays @promiseacres ??


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## promiseacres (Jul 31, 2016)

There are several angora breeds. Flemish giant is my first thought  for the other.  But could be a chinchilla.


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## Baymule (Jul 31, 2016)

Flemish Giants are pretty long bodied, while Chinchillas are shorter bodied and when set up for show, are more rounded. Flemish Giants have sorta a flat top line on the shoulders because of their length. You could look up the breed standards for each one and compare to your rabbit.

The difference in your babies is probably related to the coloring on your doe. Chinchilla coloring can also throw black sports, a solid black rabbit. Pretty bunnies!


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## Bunnylady (Jul 31, 2016)

I don't know how to say this without sounding prejudiced, but if your rabbits came from an Amish breeder, there is no telling what they are. I am sure that there are Amish that are aware of breed standards and are interested in breeding towards them, but in some circles, "Amish breeder" and "puppy mill" are pretty nearly synonyms. As you said, your doe has long hair, so she fits the description of an Angora. However, she does not closely resemble any single breed, so she may be a cross of two or more Angora breeds, or simply a very poor example of one breed. Your buck has a big, blocky head like one would expect to find on a Flemish, but his ears are way too small, and it looks to me like his body may be, too. But hey, if calling it a Flemish Giant means it might be worth more, then never mind the fact that both of the rabbit's parents weighed less than 9 pounds, it's a Flemish Giant!

But as for the colors of the babies - seeing the colors of the parents, and knowing what recessive genes could be lurking behind those colors, the colors of the litter do not surprise me at all.


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## chiques chicks (Jul 31, 2016)

"animal auction in Amish country" lol
We call that "Roots" or "Green Dragon", the two big weekly animal auctions here. They sell whatever the people bring in that day. There are B&b here that stock their farms seasonally from those places. Also where breeders dump their culls and excess.

The varied colors is probably from the doe. Never know what is going to come out in any litter and with mixed fur types, anything can happen all in the same litter. Still cute, still good pets.


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## Bunnylady (Jul 31, 2016)

chiques chicks said:


> The varied colors is probably from the doe.



Not completely - If the buck was, say, a purebred Chinchilla, then the only colors you should see would be solid or broken Chins and Chestnuts. The only broken patterned baby in the litter is definitely not a broken Chestnut, so the father also is hiding recessive genes. Also, when you breed a broken to a rabbit that comes from a long, long line of solid colored rabbits (there is no such thing as a Broken Flemish Giant) you generally get what are known as booted brokens - rabbits with just a little bit of white on the face and feet, and otherwise nearly solid colored. The fact that the only broken in the litter has so much white on it suggests that there may be brokens in the sire's ancestry, too.


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## Teemarie (Aug 1, 2016)

Thanks everyone. Fortunately, our buns are pets and not intended for showing or breeding (our 2 bucks are neutered), so their breeds really only matter for my own curiousity. Actually, Grey went to the vet for his snip the day before our surprise babies showed up. 
I figured Pip was definitely a cross-breed of some sort since she doesn't really fit the description of any one breed. Grey is only 9lbs so small for a flemish, but we also don't know his age so perhaps he still has some growing to do....or not lol. 
The auction we got these 2 buns from we went to to get some kind of chickens and pheasants my in-laws were looking for (thankfully my husband knew what they wanted because I'm clueless about that kind of thing). The state of a lot of the caged bunnies broke my heart, and my daughter wanted to bring them all home! We agreed to save these 2 (pips poor fur was horrendous!) And grey was just too sweet of a boy to leave behind. So now it seems we have 6 adorable bun to love! Our little Holland lop, grey, Pip, and their mixed bag of cuteness! Sadly, we lost our Dutch girl a few months back. I think the new babies will help ease my daughters loss, she treated that bun like royalty. 
Anyway, thanks for the info! I spent some time reading about fur genetics and figured it wasn't unusual to see so much difference between the babies because of their unknown pedigree. It was an interesting topic, but all the possibilities had my head spinning.


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## Teemarie (Aug 1, 2016)

Here's a few more pics of Grey. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	











Grey was interested in a carrot and Diana was interested in a nap.


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## Bunnylady (Aug 1, 2016)

Having dealt with my share of cranky rabbits over the years, IMO, when it comes to pets, "sweet" trumps a pedigree any day. Looks like for these buns, it was their lucky day when they got sent to that auction!


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## Ferguson K (Aug 1, 2016)

Looks like some spoiled rabbits to me!


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