# The non-USDA approved thread of animal husbandry...tell us your ideas!



## Beekissed (Sep 5, 2009)

Due to the rising cost of animal husbandry and also the increased awareness of food safety and the harmful effects of chemicals in our food supplies.....there are those who choose to raise our animals a little more naturally.  We are attempting to get away from the current industry standard that follows USDA approved diets and health regimens geared towards CAFO type operations.  

As a wonderful side effect of using these alternative methods, we are finding that it is also more cost effective for the small homesteader or backyard herdsman.  

This is a thread for information about these alternative methods and for folks to showcase their backyard herds.  We would like to share any ideas you have about natural and even organic methods you are using to maintain herd health.  We like pics and stories about what works for you and what you have tried that didn't seem to work.  

Although we welcome debates geared towards increasing knowledge, I ask that you please keep comments constructive and friendly.  

Alright, folks....share those stories, ideas, and pics, will ya?


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## freemotion (Sep 5, 2009)

Well, I don't have sheepies, but I do have goaties!  And chickens, turkeys, guineas, two cats and a dog.....and I prepare all their food myself as much as possible.  With the support of a very cool small animal vet who actually had me come and teach a class to her clients on feeding their dogs and cats.  

So where shall I begin.....hmmm....my love for whole grains!  All my grain-eating critters get whole grains.  I keep galvanized trash cans of whole corn, oats, barley, and sunflower seeds.  

Once a grain is ground, rolled, cracked, etc, it begins to go rancid.  Ask anyone who grinds their own wheat for flour if you can do a sniff test....take a big sniff of the whole wheat flour you buy in the store, and then take a sniff of freshly ground wheat, still warm from the grinding process.  It is like they are completely different foods.  The rancid store-bought flour (even the fresher flours from places like Whole Foods) is disgusting compared to the lovely and wholesome smell of the good stuff.  The nose knows!

So, in spite of being told over and over that I would kill my chickens, they started getting whole grains.  Now everyone does.  I was told, when I countered with the number of years I'd been feeding whole grains and my flock was still around, that production is way down.  Nope.  Sorry.  You need to research studies from other countries, countries without a USDA.  The USDA's job is to find markets for agricultural products.....read, "corn, soy, and other grains."  They are not the keepers of our health, that is not their job.  

I began lactofermenting the grains to address my concerns about anti-nutrients, especially problematic at those times when the variety of grains available to me was limited to only two, usually corn and oats.  This process is simple and increases the bio-availability of the nutrients in the foods, and actually can INCREASE certain nutrients.  It also adds live probiotics, which aid in digestive tract health.

Going through the trouble to do this has made a huge difference, especially for those animals who are in crisis for whatever reason.  And it literally adds no more than two minutes to my daily routine.  If I am in a slow mood.  A very slow mood.

For this week's picture of some of my healthy critters, see post # 9 of  http://www.sufficientself.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3137&p=1


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## Beekissed (Sep 5, 2009)

Free, I must admit that I don't know much about lactofermenting.  Do you mean sprouted grains?  I have read up on that and I find that this is the ideal way to make whole grains more nutritious and to stretch your food bill at the same time.  

Your goats and other animals are lovely and in great condition, I might add!  

I have only scratched the surface of alternative methods of feeding but I'm very into all-natural de-worming methods, as well as probiotics available in simple ways.  I don't think I would ever purchase probiotics when one can make their own at home for animals.  

I also am implementing alternative nutrition to grains for livestock, such as rotational intensive grazing` ala Salatin style, the use of mangles (a type of sugar beet), having offspring in the early spring when the grass is at it's most nutritive to provide for proper "flushing" without using commercial feeds, etc.  

I also like to incorporate many food sources into the diets of my sheep, calves and chickens...also the dogs and chickens.  

In nature, an animal usually has several types and varieties of nutritional sources.  I find that the diet designed by the good Lord for these animals is more appropriate and will keep them healthier than any we humans can concoct.  In our arrogance, we think we've built a better mouse trap with formulated feeds and supplements. 

I understand, since our animals are somewhat confined to one area, those varieties of foods are no longer available to them and they cannot forage appropriately.  But, I still like to try and mimic that more natural diet when I can.  

I free range my chickens, the dogs have sources of raw meat and fresh fruits and veggies whenever they want, my cats get to hunt at their leisure, and the sheep and calf also get all the fruits and veggies they want to supplement their graze.  

Anyone else trying to offer a more natural diet to their livestock and other animals?


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## Blackbird (Sep 6, 2009)

Todays processed, chemical induced, and manmade food has not benefitted any animal. Many, many years ago todays animals would have been on clean land, open spaces, fresh forage as they wanted, natural streams and fresh water, not even having to even step on any kind of feces. They did what they wanted and how they wanted. Worms, coccidiosis, parasites, and the like didn't happen as much because most animals had strong immune systems to fight those things off. Strong immune systems because of the benefits of the natural earth, the cleanliness of the world, fresh grasses, waters and plants. Back then natural selection went into play for those who couldn't keep up. A vast variety of medicinal plants grew all over, the animals knew what they needed, what nutrients, what plant might be beneficial, etc. Why are a some animal's heat cycles typically in the fall, to give birth in harsh and sometimes extreme weather? So only the strong live.

Then we come along and ruin everything.  First people begin to raise the animals, seemed logical, fresh meat, eggs, milk, hides, fiber, etc could all be obtainable in your own yard, no need to go out and hunt and gather, etc. As greed goes, people wanted more. Not everyone had time to raise their own animals, they started to live in cities that started forming, wanted more money, and the like, but still needed to eat. Naturally it would be a good idea for people to sell their products and produce. 

Populations boom, more people need more food in less space. Animals are confined to smaller areas, unkept and poor conditions. More parasites and diseases spread easier and faster. Animals are selectivly bred for higher yields, grains and crops are grown to fatten up these animals and make them produce. More and more and more. Man's medicine comes into play to treat all these new problems. Medicines that weaken as well as destroy bad and good. More and new grains are created and produced (new varieties of corn, soy, the like) that can be potentially harmful in the long run. 

Eventually we come to what we have now. Mass markets, fast paced mainsteam foods, little care and a whole lot of fillers. History has proved that. Heh, maybe I'm full of it, probably am, but thats my opinion of it all.

And those are all the reasons that I, personally, prefer more natural, safer, and healthier methods of animal husbandry. Safer for animals, people, and the world. I've been told I raise my animals 'wrong', but so be it then. My animals are happy and healthy. Whats so wrong?


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## Beekissed (Sep 6, 2009)

I've seen the pics of your goats, BB.  They are simply beautiful!  Can you post a few pics of them on this thread so we can get an idea of how an animal looks using your methods?  

Here are my sheep raised mostly on pasture, with veggies and fruits mixed in for good measure.  They will be receiving hay and other roughage this winter, along with the occasional sprouted whole grains, winter squash, pumpkins (a natural anti-helminic), apples and salad scraps.  

I only use Shaklees soap for an intentional dewormer agent and coat conditioner.  I use kelp meal and coarse salt for loose minerals, free choice. I also will be adding unpasteurized ACV to their water after I make my own this fall.  

The UP ACV is also being used to condition coats, boost immune systems and to help produce higher percentages of female offspring.  

I chose a breed that is an efficient forager and parasite/disease resistant.  They also shed their wool in the spring/summer months and do not require shearing.  Because they are not wool producing, they have less lanolin in their wool.  Also, more of their nutrients go into meat production than in growing wool.  

I hope to cull for good mothering, efficient feed use (staying in good condition on graze), multiple and easy births and milk production.  These are not a milk breed but it stands to reason that a ewe that produces more milk has bigger, healthier babies that grow more quickly. 

These were purchased as weanlings at just barely 4 months and they are now just barely 7 mo.  They are Katahdin/St. Croix cross ewes and will be bred back to a St. Croix buck in December.  They are now breeding age at 7 mo. but I prefer not to breed them this young.


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## chicken fruit (Sep 6, 2009)

I think the best investment people can make in their stock is to stay with heritage breeds, or animals who lineage can be tracked and the long term health of the parents and such can be verified. So much has been lost in our cattle especially, but in all stock animals as they were augmented and bred for greater production rates.

Beyond that, keeping stock in an environment that is keeping with their natural habitat will further help to ward off disease and infection. Aside from wormer and parasite control there is little in the way of chemicals that any animal requires, and truly even less intervention needed by their farmer to keep them healthy. Farm the land, and keep the land healthy, and it will take care of the animals for you. Thats what we say in my family.

Animals belong on ground, in grass, foraging. 

The modernization of the family farm was not intended by our government to drive them out of business, sadly though thats exactly what it has done over these 50+ years since its implementation. And we as a nation have sacrificed so much in the way of our health and food quality- even our fresh vegetables contain trace amounts of toxic chemicals.

There are MANY animal husbandry handbooks from the turn of the century which are invaluable to a modern homesteader/organic farmer, even if you have to pay an antique dealer for them theyre still worth the investment!


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## Beekissed (Sep 6, 2009)

I agree, Chicken Fruit!  Welcome to the forum!    Some times the old ways are the best ways and they shouldn't have been abandoned so readily.  As with anything else the government "helped" with, farming has slowly deteriorated into something that isn't good for human or animal, it's just there. 

 Fully automated and cardboard to the extreme....the meat doesn't taste good, the milk doesn't taste good, the produce doesn't even taste as good.  How one can ruin something provided by nature is beyond me, but they have managed to do so in their efforts to "improve" our animal husbandry and other farming techniques.  

My grandma used to give her old dishwater to her pigs and chickens and I never knew why.  She always said it was good for them.  Little did she know that it really was....she was using a surfactant to de-worm her animals.  All she knew is that her mama did it and her grandma did it.  MY mother did it and now I do it.


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## freemotion (Sep 6, 2009)

Chicken Fruit, sometimes these old books can be found online for free!


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## Quail (Sep 6, 2009)

Well, I guess I don't make it over here much anymore, but I'm thrilled to see this thread!

We took in a pony, named Emmy, a couple months back. Her coat was dull and she wasn't friendly at all. She's on 100% pasture. That's it. We don't supplement her feed, and we've not medicated her at all. We did have her hooves cleaned and trimmed. 

She was still shedding her winter coat when we got her, and we were already well into June! Since shedding her coat, she's turned into this glossy gal! She's filled out nice, and is even getting friendlier towards us. When we walk by, she is now running to the fence and expecting us to pat her neck or run our fingers through her mane.

We also have two calves. They were purchased back in February/March of this year. One was a bottle baby, the other a just weaned feeder. They are on 100% pasture/grass fed as well. I can already taste them melting in my mouth! YUMM-O. We do give them some grain, just 1 cup of grain each, in the evenings as a treat, but NOT as a supplement. It's a training process. We have them so tame that if they were to get out, and Chase has, they are used to getting their 1 cup of grain at the same time every day so even if they're out, they come back of their own accord for that 1 cup of grain. They're very nicely filled out on their grass, and they aren't medicated either. Except Chase was on medicine early on for scours, but that was it. Since his recovery, we've not medicated them for anything else. 

My chickens free range during the day. They get lots of bugs, grass, seeds, berries, etc. I also give them yogurt, cottage cheese, and I mix flockraiser with black oil sunflower seeds, corn, and rolled oats. They get the occassional scratch mix, too.  My chickens have not been vaccinated, and the only time I've ever had a truly sick chicken was when I purchased a batch of chicks from a private breeder. Those chicks were all culled out, and thankfully never introduced to the rest of my flock since I practice quarantine measures. Very hard to put down a baby animal of any kind, but it was necessary to preserve my flock as the poultry on our small farm is a big source of income for us.


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## Beekissed (Sep 6, 2009)

Or at yard sales and book sales at your local library.  I found a wonderful livestock book that has wonderful breed pics and such of all kinds of livestock and info about each one.  Unfortunately, its from the late 40's/early 50's, when the government was JUST starting to chime in on feed...especially feeding corn and using feedlots to improve yield. 

So....BB?  When will we see your goat pics on here??


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## big brown horse (Sep 6, 2009)

Thank you for starting this thread!  I am eagerly reading and learning from all the contributing posts.   <--organic popcorn.


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## Beekissed (Sep 6, 2009)

BBH, now post a pic or two of your herd!  I loooooove your pics!  Are you implementing any natural feeding/medicine with them?  If so, list it and tell us how it's working?

I found this article on ACV and sheep in SHEEP magazine and found it quite interesting.  



http://www.sheepmagazine.com/issues/24/24-1/Laurie_Ball-Gisch.html


And an article on managed grazing for sheep:

http://www.hunternutrition.com/artcmanagedgrazing.html


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## freemotion (Sep 6, 2009)

big brown horse said:
			
		

> Thank you for starting this thread!  I am eagerly reading and learning from all the contributing posts.   <--organic popcorn.


Organic popcorn with freshly made butter from goat's cream!  That is what dh and I had for a treat last night!  

Bee, do you remember where the link is to that article on sheep and mangels, and how the productivity went up in the farmer's flock by 200% I think it was?  I loved that article.  Maybe NEXT year my mangels will grow!  I have tried two years now, since reading that article.....thank goodness for beet pulp, it is not nearly as good as fresh, but it is something, at least.

Rutabagas were a big part of Mya's survival when I first got her.  I'd had a bumper crop of gigantic rutabagas, and had a cellar full of them, and pumpkins.  I was able to chop them and ramp up her tolerance of those pretty quickly (carefully, too, I took a month or so, not knowing when she was bred, so it was a scary time for us.)


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## Beekissed (Sep 6, 2009)

It was in Countryside mag...I'll have to look for it.  I wasn't very successful growing mangels either but I'm still interested.


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## Blackbird (Sep 6, 2009)

Freemotion, I know you feed whole grains to your goats, what is the mix that you feed? 

I know a friend who has 20-30 milkers and also shows her goats. She said that hers do far better on whole grains, stay healthier, produce more milk, and stay at a better weight than they did on processed food and goat pellets. She also said the milk tastes better, and their breath smells better.


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## freemotion (Sep 6, 2009)

Blackbird said:
			
		

> Freemotion, I know you feed whole grains to your goats, what is the mix that you feed?
> 
> I know a friend who has 20-30 milkers and also shows her goats. She said that hers do far better on whole grains, stay healthier, produce more milk, and stay at a better weight than they did on processed food and goat pellets. She also said the milk tastes better, and their breath smells better.


My mix depends on what I can get, as whole grains can be hard to come by so far from where they are produced, here in Massachusetts.  I prefer barley, so when I can get my hands on it, sometimes directly from the farm in Maine, I feed that along with sunflower seeds and beet pulp.  Sometimes I add whole oats to stretch the barley.  Whole grains still have B vitamins in them, unlike processed grains, so I don't feed yeast.  Also, fermenting increased nutrient value, and sprouting increases protein, so essential for making milk....and kids.

For Mya and Ginger, I put about a quart of barley and a pint of sunflower seeds in my little bucket, and fill that with water and a glug of whey and let it sit for 24 hours at room temp.  It lives in a corner of my kitchen near the garage door, in a little hallway.  I milk in the garage, so this is convenient for me.  

After 24 hours, I pour it into a colander and rinse it in the sink, thoroughly, in warm to cool water.  I let it drain for a few minutes, then scoop out a big double handful for Mya.  I give a little less when it is 24 hours old, and increase the amount each feeding as it continues to sprout, as I have noticed that she tolerates it better as the sprouting advances (dog poo sign!)  After each milking, my routine is to clean her feed pan, and put in a half cup of beet pulp with about a cup of water and set that with the fermenting grain and my milking kit by the door for the next milking.  It also keeps it handy to toss in any fruit or veggie scraps.  If there are a lot, they go into a small bucket for the next meal or two.  

Ginger gets a small single handful of grain with a cup or so of alfalfa pellets.  She still rejects the beet pulp, so I introduce a little now and then, and eventually she will get the same mix as Mya.  She rejected the soaked grain at first, so I did the same....offering a bit now and then until she decided she liked it.  I noticed that she suddenly became very interested in it a week or two after I weaned her completely off the milk.  She needed the protein, I think, and finally craved it so much that she was willing to develop a taste for the lactofermented and sprouted grains.  I suspect she will want the beet pulp within a few weeks of snow cover, when there is nothing fresh in her diet.  She is also not really interested in veggie scraps yet, she just gets a few carrot peels now and then if we have them available.  She does get preferential treatment with the daily bundle of leafy branches, though, so I doubt she is craving any extra nutrients right now.

Mya also gets one small coffee can, maybe a pound, of alfalfa pellets that I put into her feed pan just before I put it on the milk stand.  She hates them when they go mushy if I prepare her food too early.  It is amazing how they can communicate their displeasure so clearly, isn't it?? 

Oh, and of course, my newest addition, a bit of lactofermented veggies now and then, maybe 1/4 cup or so.  I use tongs to take some out of the liquid in the gallon jar, so I am guessing on the amount....one "tong-full!"

This coming winter I will continue to experiment with bringing some of the grains all the way to the grass blade stage, separately from the grain feeding, to add some fresh greens to the diets of the birds as well as the goats.  Probably just treat amounts, but it will still be so good for them with our longish winters here.  My sprouting stand is built, it is my seed starting shelf unit.  I have two shelves, four feet long, and can add two more easily if it works out.  That could be quite a bit of oat and barley grass growing in my basement!


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## Beekissed (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm going to be sprouting more this winter, Free.  I think I will use this method to flush my Bettys before breeding in December.  Also to get my calf a little fatter right before butchering in Feb.


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## freemotion (Sep 6, 2009)

Yep, if I had a cellar full of mangels, I probably wouldn't bother.  But....oh, well, next year will be my year for mangels!


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## noobiechickenlady (Sep 7, 2009)

Me too!

I'm learning so much from you guys. I hate the thought of having animals so dependant on rations & meds that they will die without them. Meds have their appropriate spot, but no animal should HAVE to have them in order to survive. Eating antibiotics impregnated meats?  thats the main reason I WANT my own herd & flock. So I KNOW what they've been eating & the meds, supplements etc they've been given.
The wonderful thing about cattle in my neck of the woods is we have so much good open land for graze. You drive down the highway and see huge open acres with a couple dozen cows contently grazing.
The lady who has my possible Dexter heifer doesn't have a huge vet bill, she grazes them and only gets rid of animals when the family needs some meat, the pasture starts looking ragged & chewed or there are injury issues. She also uses soapy water to worm her Dexes and only offers grain as a treat. I'm going to introduce her to ACV & this forum when I go to meet them. She seems like the type who would be interested.


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## Beekissed (Sep 7, 2009)

So, anyone one here trying to use natural sources for minerals or are you using commercial mixes? 

I am currently using Thorvin dried kelp and coarse salt.  

http://www.thorvin.com/feed.htm


For sheep, it is supposed to improve wool, immunity and fertility.  

Salatin uses it for his livestock and notes that he hasn't had a case of pink eye in his herds since starting with Thorvin kelp many years ago.  He attributes this to the readily usable iodine in the kelp.  He goes in with a neighbor and buys 50 tons at one time!  I can't even imagine the cost, so he must really feel like it's worth it to spend that much....he isn't really known for splurging with his money...  

I bought mine through my local feed store and it comes to about a $1 a pound, with tax and all.  It is supposed to last a long time.  I used quite a bit in my milk cow's feed to help condition her quickly.  It really seemed to make a difference in her overall health and condition.  I had her from May 10th to Aug. 22nd, I believe.  One month of that was spent at another farm getting bred.  She delivered a calf on the 25th.  She came to me in pretty bad shape, 8 years old and ready to calve.  She delivered a healthy little heifer on May 25th. 

Before, on May 10th:







And after calving, sometime in June:






These results were accomplished with de-worming with Shaklees soap, fresh graze, a little sweet feed each evening with raw eggs, BOSS and Thorvin kelp.  She had the kelp and salt free choice.  She also had hay free choice.

I made $500 profit on her sale.  I really feel like the kelp helped her over all condition and health, along with the Shaklees and good pasture.


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## trestlecreek (Sep 8, 2009)

Ahh, sorry to hear she was in bad shape when you got her, that girl could still use a lot of weight. Just takes time, food and a lot of TLC....


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## Beekissed (Sep 8, 2009)

Fortunately, she is no longer my project!  We've gotten tons of calls on her since I put in the ad, but the first caller took her and was very happy to have found her.

The farmer~ where she was taken to be bred~couldn't believe it was the same cow!  She had turned a whole different color and she was in such great shape compared to when he saw her last that he was amazed.  He was also very amazed that she could look that good in so short a time.

Just imagine what I could have done with her on this regimen if I had had her longer......


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## trestlecreek (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes, it can take a good 3-6 months for an animal in that condition to make a turn around. The color wouldn't have bothered me so much as getting a normal weight on her,..poor girl!!


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## freemotion (Sep 8, 2009)

Is it my computer or are her ears GLOWING in that second picture?


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## reinbeau (Sep 8, 2009)

This thread seems to apply to many animals, it seems misplaced in the Everything Else Sheep section - I'm going to move it to a more prominent place.....

ETA wow, there really isn't a good place to put this!  I'll have to ponder that a bit.  Great thread, keep on keepin' on!


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## ksalvagno (Sep 8, 2009)

What about adding an "organic" or "natural" heading in the general herd section?


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## ducks4you (Sep 8, 2009)

THIS is what makes these four sites so great!!  I've joined all four forums AFTER reading "Hobby Farms" for several years.  I have learned S O   M U C H  "common knowledge" about livestock and farming because of so much information sharing, as is on this very thread.

Excuse my contribution because I have never owned any pigs, but there was a recent article in HF (July/August 2009) about the endangered Large Black Hogs.  They are good producers, docile and suited to pasture raising.  People in the city have no clue that his is possible with a pig.

Also, I keep my horses outside as many days as possible throughout the year, on pasture. I grain for training, more than for any other reason, since my horses watch for me to come to feed them.  It has helped make them very easy to catch.


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## freemotion (Sep 8, 2009)

Thanks, I hope to get a couple of pigs next year, personal economy permitting!  Pastured, of course.  I hope to use them to plow my gardens, too, since I wised up and am creating veggie gardens (fenced) within my pasture areas, so the animals can help me without me having to transport them to the garden morning and night until their job is completed.  Just open the gate. 

By the way, the health and productivity of my pasture has gone WAY up since free-ranging the chickens in it.  They create bare spots with their scratching, but mostly in the areas where grass is not growing....where there used to be heavy weeds, and where the fallen leaves and grass matted down and created dead spots.  It is surprising and amazing.  A startling difference, especially this year, because I have a couple of new very bold chickens who lead the rest farther afield!


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## Beekissed (Sep 8, 2009)

ducks4you said:
			
		

> THIS is what makes these four sites so great!!  I've joined all four forums AFTER reading "Hobby Farms" for several years.  I have learned S O   M U C H  "common knowledge" about livestock and farming because of so much information sharing, as is on this very thread.
> 
> Excuse my contribution because I have never owned any pigs, but there was a recent article in HF (July/August 2009) about the endangered Large Black Hogs.  They are good producers, docile and suited to pasture raising.  People in the city have no clue that his is possible with a pig.
> 
> Also, I keep my horses outside as many days as possible throughout the year, on pasture. I grain for training, more than for any other reason, since my horses watch for me to come to feed them.  It has helped make them very easy to catch.


D4Y, you are correct about the Large Blacks.  My sister has a breeding pair and they actually do graze...right along with her sheep.  Good and gentle breed, good mothers, easy birthing, easy to gain weight.  

My sis has finally realized that her de-wormer(Ivermect) is costing her a butt load of money and hasn't really netted the results she had wanted, wasn't easy to put on her sheep's backs due to the wool factor, and she wanted to start using alternative methods for achieving good herd health.

She finally called and asked how to spell Shaklees!   

 No use having all those heritage breeds who have been naturally selective in creating parasite resistance if you are going to get them dependent upon chemicals once more.  

She has Highland cattle and Large Blacks.  She hasn't yet went towards heritage breeds on sheep but I look for her to do so, once she sees how easy these St. Croix crosses are to raise.


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## ducks4you (Sep 9, 2009)

chicken fruit said:
			
		

> ... The modernization of the family farm was not intended by our government to drive them out of business, sadly though thats exactly what it has done over these 50+ years since its implementation...


Not to stay on the subject of pigs, but I was reading a recent issue of Champaign Co.Farm Bureau's publication and one article told us that in the state of Illinois we had about 7K hogs in the state raised by around 2,000 farmers, and today, one year later, the same number of animals raised by about 350 farmers.  They are barely able to make their ends meet.  THIS is not RIGHT!!

The government is not going to police itself.  I think we need new blood in government to ensure that our food does not end up coming from only BIG corporations.  WE know that WE can't abuse or neglect our backyard livestock, else the local government will take them.  Any stress, abuse or neglect of meat animals is almost always coming from large operations.


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## offdagridsoon (Jun 8, 2010)

We have no sheep yet (can't wait for next year!), but I will be well-prepared with threads like this to read.  It really is a wealth of information and ideas!


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## freemotion (Jun 8, 2010)

Have you discovered the sister site yet, SufficientSelf?  Link at bottom of this page!


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## offdagridsoon (Jun 8, 2010)

I have!   Subscribed to that forum within 5 minutes of this one, actually.


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## Baymule (Aug 22, 2010)

On the mangel beets, is there a preferred variety? The site I buy my seed from, www.rareseeds.com has several mangels to choose from. I was wondering what particular beet seeds have been planted and what the results were. I buy the dried shreds from the feed store for my horses and they eat them like candy. I want to plant some in the spring for a next winter feed supplement.

Also, can anyone be more specific on the soap in the water for worming? I would like to try it for my chickens.

Thanks for all this information. This thread is great.


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## freemotion (Aug 22, 2010)

I bought....um....Eckeldorf Gold and something Red??? from rhshumway.com.  I favor the red only because I like to have a variety of colors in my own food and the goats get plenty of pumpkins (farm next door lets me take the leftovers after the holiday sales) and carrot peels, so I figured on red for the beets.   This is my third year planting them, and it looks like it will be the first year I actually get some roots.  The girls had some beet greens the last two years....we had cold rain-rain-rain here and I had no root crops at all.  Meanwhile, I do feed beet pulp shreds, too, but it is a waste product from the sugar beet industry so I'm sure the fresh beets will be SOOO much better for them.


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## Beekissed (Aug 23, 2010)

Lucky you to get all those pumpkins!  I have to travel the country trying to buy people's left over pumpkins.  For some reason they would rather they rot on their porches than give them away after the holiday seasons......  

I found that my gals love the pumpkins even more if they have been frozen and thawed and starting to ferment.  Funny, huh, Free....how much animals love that "rotten" food?


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