# Husband wants goats and I'm terrified of goats...



## Highland Meadows (Mar 30, 2021)

My husband and father-in-law keep pushing for goats on the farm. I am however, to put it bluntly quite terrified of goats lol Now you are probably thinking that's absurd and I won't argue with you it might sound very silly to most people. The story behind my fear of goats starts when I was 10. Our next door neighbor kept a single buck (I believe nubian). It was "disbuded" , but of course his horns grew back and they NEVER had it fenced they just let this guy free roam. My parents always made me walk to my grandmother's house every day which was on the other side of this neighbors house with the goat. This goat would always come onto the road to chase me, head butt me and even would try to jump on me (I'm assuming mount since he was alone all of the time). I would layer my clothes and wear an oversized canvas carhartt coat to try and cushion myself from this goat and even then I would have grapefruit sized bruises on my sides and scrapes all over. He even nicked my face with a horn one once and I still to this day have a small scar from where he got a little chunk of skin out of my face. Eventually the neighbors were forced to get rid of the goat because I wasn't the goats only victim and other neighbors complained. He would attack anyone on the road walking, he even attacked the neighbors little dog when she was taking it for a walk and then the goat started to headbutt people trying to knock them off of their bicycles. He also went full crazy and started trying to headbutt cars that drove by (it was a dirt road so most people didn't drive above 20 mph). I still to this day avoid going anywhere near goats, but my husband and father-in-law LOVE goats. They have been planning out a goat yard and goat barn while I'm sitting here sweating up a storm watching my childhood fears come to life again😅 However, I don't want to let my fear stop him from getting goats if that's what he wants. Basically I'm willing to learn and try, but need a little reassuring before he brings any goats home. So my questions are based on your personal experience:

-What goat breeds are the most docile?
-Are male goats in general very aggressive?
-Is it purely each goat is it's own individual and it's a hit or miss personality thing?
-Or was it simply because the neighbors kept a lone buck that made him so aggressive?
-Would it be better to stick with only does?
-Also I know goats are herd animals so how many goats does it take for a goat to feel most comfortable and like they have their own herd? 
-I'm a reader are there any recommended books on goat handling/goat behaviors? 

Thanks!


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## Palomino (Mar 30, 2021)

What an awful experience! I can see how you would be afraid of goats. But I can assure you that is not the norm. In any type of animal, in every breed, you are going to have good and bad individuals. As a whole, you really can't say if there is any truly aggressive domestic goat breed, because a lot of it is genetics. For example, I had a line of Lamanchas at one time and absolutely hated them. They were aggressive to the other does, fence jumpers and biters. But I know lots and lots of people who love their Lamanchas and rave about how docile they are.

Yes, keeping a goat alone can definitely make them more aggressive. Not having any does around probably didn't help either so he must have been crazy bored. Bucks can have a lot of energy and it doesn't sound like he was ever disciplined either. I raised Nubians and Nigerians, and had several bucks of each breed. My main Nubian buck thought he was a puppy. He was just the biggest, sweetest boy. He loved to stand there for neck scratches and rubs. Never even tried to dominate the Nigerians and he produced beautiful kids. I hated to sell him when I got out of goats, but his new owners loved him too and would let him onto the porch because he was so friendly in a laid back way.

You can have as few as two goats and they'll be quite happy. I would recommend starting with two does. You don't absolutely have to have a buck, unless you want to keep a closed herd. You should probably get polled or disbudded goats so you don't have to worry about their horns. I also very highly recommend Nigerians for you because of their size. They are only 21" maximum at the withers and always playful and fun to watch. If you bottle raise, you will really develop a bond with them. Now depending on how much milk you want, if that's what you want, an average Nigerian gives between 1-2qts each day. So if that's not enough, I would go with a miniature breed, like mini Nubians or mini lamanchas. They can give upwards of 1/2 gallon per day while still being only a little larger than the Nigerians.

Whatever you do, try to find a good breeder who disease tests, knows how to take care of their herd and will give you sound advice along the way. That will be invaluable for you. Good luck and I hope you enjoy discovering the wonderful world of good goats!!


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## Highland Meadows (Mar 30, 2021)

Palomino said:


> What an awful experience! I can see how you would be afraid of goats. But I can assure you that is not the norm. In any type of animal, in every breed, you are going to have good and bad individuals. As a whole, you really can't say if there is any truly aggressive domestic goat breed, because a lot of it is genetics. For example, I had a line of Lamanchas at one time and absolutely hated them. They were aggressive to the other does, fence jumpers and biters. But I know lots and lots of people who love their Lamanchas and rave about how docile they are.
> 
> Yes, keeping a goat alone can definitely make them more aggressive. Not having any does around probably didn't help either so he must have been crazy bored. Bucks can have a lot of energy and it doesn't sound like he was ever disciplined either. I raised Nubians and Nigerians, and had several bucks of each breed. My main Nubian buck thought he was a puppy. He was just the biggest, sweetest boy. He loved to stand there for neck scratches and rubs. Never even tried to dominate the Nigerians and he produced beautiful kids. I hated to sell him when I got out of goats, but his new owners loved him too and would let him onto the porch because he was so friendly in a laid back way.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the advice and such great information! I think a smaller breed and two does like you recommended would be a good start for us and I will be sure to look into the breeds you recommended. Thank you again!


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## Beekissed (Mar 30, 2021)

Why do they wants goats so very much?  To eat brush?  If so, there's a gentler, more sweet and easier animal that can do that for them.  Hair sheep, in particular, the docile Katahdin breed.  Will eat browse like a goat, but carries far less parasites, will stay in fences better, shed their wool each spring/summer and are known for twinning.....plus market prices for sheep are higher than goats right now.  






						About the Breed – Katahdin Hair Sheep International
					






					www.katahdins.org
				




The rams are known for docility, as long as they are not made into pets as lambs, and they don't smell as bad as buck goats do.  In fact, the hair sheep don't smell as bad as woolly breeds of sheep, either, but smell more like horses.


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## Baymule (Mar 30, 2021)

@Palomino that is a very compassionate and informative answer. I’m so glad you joined this forum! 
@Beekissed that is a very good point. I may be a little biased because I have hair sheep too! LOL 

Good question , why do they want goats? To slaughter for meat? To raise for their milk? Or just to keep the brush and weeds down? Haha, I bet THEY won’t go milk the goat! So who will, you? There I go again, stirring up trouble!


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## Highland Meadows (Mar 30, 2021)

Beekissed said:


> Why do they wants goats so very much?  To eat brush?  If so, there's a gentler, more sweet and easier animal that can do that for them.  Hair sheep, in particular, the docile Katahdin breed.  Will eat browse like a goat, but carries far less parasites, will stay in fences better, shed their wool each spring/summer and are known for twinning.....plus market prices for sheep are higher than goats right now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I asked I was told "because we just like goats"🙄. I am with you on the sheep! I love sheep and would gladly jump into a pasture with a ram over a goat buck any day. Maybe I can convince them to just go with the sheep🤔


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## Highland Meadows (Mar 30, 2021)

Baymule said:


> @Palomino that is a very compassionate and informative answer. I’m so glad you joined this forum!
> @Beekissed that is a very good point. I may be a little biased because I have hair sheep too! LOL
> 
> Good question , why do they want goats? To slaughter for meat? To raise for their milk? Or just to keep the brush and weeds down? Haha, I bet THEY won’t go milk the goat! So who will, you? There I go again, stirring up trouble!


I was told that they just wanted goats because they like goats so only as pets. I told them that if they get goats they will have be separate from my sheep because I am not ending up with goat chores or being chased out of the barn/pasture.


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## Palomino (Mar 30, 2021)

Highland Meadows said:


> I was told that they just wanted goats because they like goats so only as pets.


If they just want goats as pets then a pair of Nigerian or Pygmy does or wethers would make great little pets. I may be biased, but I can understand wanting goats as pets. They are so entertaining and such fun little animals!! I will say that they do require some maintenance, hoof trimming, worming, etc. so that should be considered along with feed costs for an animal that isn't producing any benefits aside from being a nice pet.
If you have sheep, the goats should be kept separate from them anyway as they have very different mineral requirements, principally when it comes to copper which goats really need.


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## farmerjan (Mar 30, 2021)

I am not a goat fan..... they are adorable as little babies.... but I just never had a real liking. Plus I had some and they were never in where they were supposed to be, and always wanting to be on top of everything.... like the smaller,  pasture  chicken coops, and then the car when they got out.....    

I also have cows for milk so not wanting dairy goats for that.  

As far as the hair sheep, they are really a pretty good trade off.... and the hair sheep breeds will "look" more like goats than a wooled breed.... Plus, the lambs, if you should breed them, are as playful as the goat kids.... although the adults are not as "playful" as goats seem to be;  and they will do more grazing in comparison to the goats wanting to do more browsing on brush and stuff.  
Rams do  not get as "strong" smelling when breeding season comes around like @Beekissed  said.


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## Alaskan (Mar 30, 2021)

If they insist on goats, meet the goats first, because yes, personality varies greatly.

I love all of the advice you have gotten,  good luck!


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## Lcampbell1515 (Mar 30, 2021)

Goats that have been disbudded properly won't get grow horns back actually the horns they grow are called spurs and usually really painful for the goat which might have caused his aggression. A properly disbudded goat is usually pretty decent. We have males with and without horns and I rarely get butted. It's all about how you treat them. 
Also I agree with the issue of goats being alone they don't do well by themselves. They will act out for attention if they are lonely.
Whethers (neutered males) are super friendly. We have a couple whethers to keep our other goats company and they love attention and always want to be near you. Also a properly disbudded goat won't smell as bad because they usually burn off the scent glands too.


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## Bcolpetzer (Apr 7, 2021)

Highland Meadows said:


> My husband and father-in-law keep pushing for goats on the farm. I am however, to put it bluntly quite terrified of goats lol Now you are probably thinking that's absurd and I won't argue with you it might sound very silly to most people. The story behind my fear of goats starts when I was 10. Our next door neighbor kept a single buck (I believe nubian). It was "disbuded" , but of course his horns grew back and they NEVER had it fenced they just let this guy free roam. My parents always made me walk to my grandmother's house every day which was on the other side of this neighbors house with the goat. This goat would always come onto the road to chase me, head butt me and even would try to jump on me (I'm assuming mount since he was alone all of the time). I would layer my clothes and wear an oversized canvas carhartt coat to try and cushion myself from this goat and even then I would have grapefruit sized bruises on my sides and scrapes all over. He even nicked my face with a horn one once and I still to this day have a small scar from where he got a little chunk of skin out of my face. Eventually the neighbors were forced to get rid of the goat because I wasn't the goats only victim and other neighbors complained. He would attack anyone on the road walking, he even attacked the neighbors little dog when she was taking it for a walk and then the goat started to headbutt people trying to knock them off of their bicycles. He also went full crazy and started trying to headbutt cars that drove by (it was a dirt road so most people didn't drive above 20 mph). I still to this day avoid going anywhere near goats, but my husband and father-in-law LOVE goats. They have been planning out a goat yard and goat barn while I'm sitting here sweating up a storm watching my childhood fears come to life again😅 However, I don't want to let my fear stop him from getting goats if that's what he wants. Basically I'm willing to learn and try, but need a little reassuring before he brings any goats home. So my questions are based on your personal experience:
> 
> -What goat breeds are the most docile?
> -Are male goats in general very aggressive?
> ...


I can relate to what you’re saying,we had a mean goat when I was a kid. But now I have eight goats and a doe ready to kid any day, we love them. They are all gentle and loving.   meet some different goats, find out what breed works for you.  I love my goats I have7 Nigerian dwarfs and a saanen/Nigerian mix.  they all bring us joy. My friend has a nubian / alpine mix and it’ll Butt you  or take it’s head and try to get you with it’s horn tips every chance it gets,  so it depends on the goat.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Apr 7, 2021)

My bucks are babies. I mean, they're grown - but, they're sweet, loving, and as gentle as my does. In fact, they're often gentler than my does! They all follow me around like puppies, come when called, and call to me, if I go out, and don't pay attention to them, lol. I have Nigoras - they're a newer breed (1980s, I think), and a dual purpose dairy/fiber. They're small, and the breed standard for bucks tops out at 70#. They're fluffy, hilarious, affectionate (if I sit on the ground, my 2yr old doe will come nuzzle me, and sit on my lap, lol) and make for beautiful milk, if I want it, will mow my grass(though they do prefer brush & other plants), and have incredible, distinct personalities. They do need to be groomed, occasionally - more if you want the fiber - but, I find it to be relaxing and great for bonding. 

All that said, a phobia is a phobia, and yours (while yeh, still irrational, as per the definition of phobia), has a VERY understandable basis! Holy cow, that goat was, imho, horribly kept, by horribly irresponsible, rude owners. I'm very proud of you, for being willing to try, for your loved ones. My husband had a lifelong phobia of birds, but when we moved here, he understood that if he, as a farm-owning retired chef, wanted those fresh eggs, they had to come from birds. So, between that and my love of all things 'critter', he agreed to a small batch - which we then ended up brooding and raising in a pool, in our living room, for 4 months, lol. During that time, he came to see them for the funny, sweet, affectionate individuals they are, and through them, has worked past his phobia. But, a huge part of that was careful breed choice(Buff Orpingtons), for temperament. Another big part of it was getting them as day old hatchling, rather than as pullets. 

So, you're right, in being careful of breed, size, purpose, temperament, etc, even though all animals, like all people, are individuals, with their own quirks and foibles. I'd suggest finding someone closer to you, with a small herd, that you can go spend some quality time with, and learn from both the people and their goats. There are also videos all over youtube, about raising goats - everything from health, purpose, and grooming, to training, and of course, pure cuteness. I'd advise watching every one of them you can find - the fun, the purely entertaining, and the how-to, but interspersed them all with lots of baby goat videos. Good luck - but, I think once you do this, especially if you choose carefully, and go spend time with some, before you choose, and bring them home, you'll be fine.


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## Highland Meadows (Apr 7, 2021)

Lcampbell1515 said:


> Goats that have been disbudded properly won't get grow horns back actually the horns they grow are called spurs and usually really painful for the goat which might have caused his aggression. A properly disbudded goat is usually pretty decent. We have males with and without horns and I rarely get butted. It's all about how you treat them.
> Also I agree with the issue of goats being alone they don't do well by themselves. They will act out for attention if they are lonely.
> Whethers (neutered males) are super friendly. We have a couple whethers to keep our other goats company and they love attention and always want to be near you. Also a properly disbudded goat won't smell as bad because they usually burn off the scent glands too.





Nommie Bringeruvda Noms said:


> My bucks are babies. I mean, they're grown - but, they're sweet, loving, and as gentle as my does. In fact, they're often gentler than my does! They all follow me around like puppies, come when called, and call to me, if I go out, and don't pay attention to them, lol. I have Nigoras - they're a newer breed (1980s, I think), and a dual purpose dairy/fiber. They're small, and the breed standard for bucks tops out at 70#. They're fluffy, hilarious, affectionate (if I sit on the ground, my 2yr old doe will come nuzzle me, and sit on my lap, lol) and make for beautiful milk, if I want it, will mow my grass(though they do prefer brush & other plants), and have incredible, distinct personalities. They do need to be groomed, occasionally - more if you want the fiber - but, I find it to be relaxing and great for bonding.
> 
> All that said, a phobia is a phobia, and yours (while yeh, still irrational, as per the definition of phobia), has a VERY understandable basis! Holy cow, that goat was, imho, horribly kept, by horribly irresponsible, rude owners. I'm very proud of you, for being willing to try, for your loved ones. My husband had a lifelong phobia of birds, but when we moved here, he understood that if he, as a farm-owning retired chef, wanted those fresh eggs, they had to come from birds. So, between that and my love of all things 'critter', he agreed to a small batch - which we then ended up brooding and raising in a pool, in our living room, for 4 months, lol. During that time, he came to see them for the funny, sweet, affectionate individuals they are, and through them, has worked past his phobia. But, a huge part of that was careful breed choice(Buff Orpingtons), for temperament. Another big part of it was getting them as day old hatchling, rather than as pullets.
> 
> So, you're right, in being careful of breed, size, purpose, temperament, etc, even though all animals, like all people, are individuals, with their own quirks and foibles. I'd suggest finding someone closer to you, with a small herd, that you can go spend some quality time with, and learn from both the people and their goats. There are also videos all over youtube, about raising goats - everything from health, purpose, and grooming, to training, and of course, pure cuteness. I'd advise watching every one of them you can find - the fun, the purely entertaining, and the how-to, but interspersed them all with lots of baby goat videos. Good luck - but, I think once you do this, especially if you choose carefully, and go spend time with some, before you choose, and bring them home, you'll be fine.


Thank you for being understanding! I think the biggest reason the phobia of goats stuck was that I was a late bloomer and didn't hit a good growth spurt until I was 13. When this was all happening I was only 4'9" so I was about goat size myself😅 My husband's co-worker has nigerians and offered for us to come over to visit with them. He also offered to sell us a couple if I felt comfortable around them. I will definitely take your advice and do some online research and watch some videos on them!


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## Jesusfreak101 (Apr 7, 2021)

I would suggest making sure their pasture has place for them to play on as nigerians are know to be more playful even as adult compared to my nubains mutts lol. Grants mine play with each other and if dh parks a trailer where they can get it its fair game. I say this i recently had a buck that We got rid of because of aggresion my first experience with that. He was a meat buck that was lock in a small pen by himself 24/7. He had a full set of horns and tried to use them on me one to many times in the few short days we had him. I believe  his aggression  came from being alone and having a doe where he could smell her and hear her but not breed her or be with her. The doe was slighty pushy at first with my kids but has come to see them as a source for treats and no longer tries to head butt them. I have currently ten goats one buck and he is very calm. He acts like a dog and wants scratchs and if i would probably kisses but honestly once you know what a male does in a rut you wont kiss that lol.


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## Ridgetop (Apr 7, 2021)

So the men in the family like goats and have decided to get some.    They do not understand your terror (which is perfectly natural given your childhood experiences).  In fact, I am surprised that someone did not shoot that buck.  If it had been attacking my children when they went out to play, it would have gone to the final corral in the sky pronto!

As with any children and their prospective pets, first make sure who is going to take care of them.  Are you home all day and going to be the person who has to do the work?  Do you have children who can take care of putting them back in their pen if they escape into the yard?  How secure is their corral going to be?  Are they planning on keeping milking does wethers, bucks (not recommended), etc.  

*DO NOT GET ANY GOAT THAT HAS HORNS.* *ONLY GET GOATS THAT HAVE BEEN DISBUDDED.  Do NOT buy any goat kid that is 3 weeks or older with the promise that it can be dehorned or disbudded.  *You have to disbud between birth and 3 weeks to catch the horn buds properly.  Otherwise the disbudding will not be successful.  Many people are afraid to disbud properly so they don't burn out all the horn bud and get scurs.  Scurs can be anything from a small piece of horn to a large deformed horn.  All horns are dangerous to young children, fences, and feeders.  Some people say they like the horns because it gives them a "handle" to grab on when catching the goat.  Properly raised and trained goats do not need to be grabbed by a horn (which they hate and will fight anyway) and can be caught by catching their collars.  Some people refuse to disbud because they believe it is cruel.  It is no more cruel than circumcising a baby boy. Disbudding is the easiest.  It only takes a few minutes per horn bud, and the kid forgets all about it immediately.  Dehorning is painful, bloody, and very expensive if you have a vet do it.  Get properly disbudded kids or goats.   For this reason I would discourage you from raising Boer meat goats since Boer breeders discourage removing the horns.  Horns in the show ring are awarded points so Boer breeders don't disbud.  

*BUY ONLY BOTTLE FED KIDS OR GOATS, THEY ARE THE MOST FRIENDLY. *Goats that have been bottle fed think you are their momma.  They love you and want to be with you.  *Like all species of animals training is everything. * Badly behaved goats were not trained.  The pound is full of badly behaved dogs that their owners did not train because their puppy jumping and biting was "cute".  Goat kids also will jump on you and butt at you.  This is their way of playing and it is your job to train them not to do it to humans.  People that think it is cute will soon have 125-150 lb. goats jumping on them and butting them at which point they get rid of their "pet".  None of our dogs jumped on people, nor did our goats.  Training is everything.  They may be pets, but they are also animals and need to know their place.  Jumping on and butting is what they can do to each other, not to you.

Many people like the smaller and dwarf breeds.  I don't, since I don't like leaning over to lead or deal with a small animal. Just _*my*_ preference to train a standard dairy goat and then be able to handle her from a standing position.  If you want house milk, I would rather feed and milk a standard size dairy animal and get a gallon a day than feed and milk 4 mini breeds for the same gallon.  More work and more money for the same final product.  

We wanted to provide house milk for the family so I read up on everything about goats and bought 2 milkers in their 2nd lactation.  They were very high yielders and averaged 1 gallon per day throughout a 10 month lactation.  Most of our other goats could not achieve that amount but these were Star milkers.  We have raised almost all the breeds of standard sized dairy goats.  We milked twice a day.  We like Nubian milk the best with LaMancha milk second.  We did not care for the taste of Alpine milk and Toggenburg mik frankly was almost undrinkable although it is supposed to make the best sharp cheese.  My youngest were 2and 4 at the time.  If our 2 Nubian milkers  escaped they would catch them by their collars and put them back in their pen.  The does were bottle fed, and taught to lead on collars.  All of our standard sized dairy goats were taught to lead, never to jump on people or butt them.  They were easy to handle by ourselves, our small children, and strangers.  Some had better temperaments than others, but all were sweet and loving to people.

We added Boer meat goats later.  These goats were not friendly since they were mama raised.  They were not aggressive, nor mean but did not have the desire to be with people like you get with a bottle kid.  Boers are often left with horns.  For this reason I would discourage you from raising Boer meat goats.  We disbudded all our does but we bred for youth meat classes which required disbudding so disbudded and castrated all kids.  

We originally took our 2 mikers to the breeder to be bred each year.  Eventually we kept between 3 and 6 bucks at all times.  Our goat herds had grown since our younger boys raised and showed dairy goats as their main project.  DS2 raised LaManchas and DS3 raised Nubians.  The bucks were never aggressive because we raised them to behave from bottle kids.  The bucks got more pushy and excited about breeding when they came into rut but were still able to be handled by our children.  Rut season is also when the terrible buck smell comes out.  The smell goes away when rut is over  At that time, the children were sent out to wash the bucks with pig shampoo, and trim off the hair on the bellies and the backs of their legs where the scent had accumulated.  Show season is spring and summer and the bucks were sweet smelling during those months.  When disbudding do *not try to burn out the scent glands *since they are not all on the top of the head  They are also located behind the knees.  Wethers - castrated bucks - never come in to rut which is why they don't smell.  This is another reason why I don't like some of the mini breeds.  Some mini/dwarf breeds will breed all year round, which means that the bucks are continually in rut and smelly.

Here are the answers to your questions (which actually pertain to all animal species):

1.  Most goats are friendly.  Some more than others.  Bottle raised kids see humans as their mom and will love you.  ONLY get a bottle raised kid whatever the breed.   You can get adult goats but make sure they are bottle raised kids, not just "friendly".  Like people some goats are more people oriented than others.  Some are more outgoing, some are more reticent.  It depends on your interaction with them.  

2.  Goats need training.  Like puppies the kids will try to jump on you.  PUSH THEM DOWN AND SCOLD THEM!  Never allow *any *young animal to jump on you.  Kids will try to butt you - this is the way they play.  *NEVER LET THEM!* *You need to remember with any species that what you allow as a baby they will try to do as an adult.*  That is why you see so many badly behaved dogs in the pound.  Their owners did not train them as young pups and allowed bad behavior because they were cute.  Any jumping on and butting must only be with others of the same species. 

3.  If you don't want house milk, you can get other breeds.  Or you can keep wethers.  I personally found wethers boring but that is because I have a farm mentality.  We were raising, feeding, and milking a lot of dairy animals.  Wethers on a dairy farm are a waste of space and resources.  At age 10, DS3 did keep a wether whom he named Goatzilla because he got so large.  He trained him to pull with a harness and would sit on his skate board while Goatzilla pulled him around.  

4.  Goats do *not* eat tin cans garbage laundry, paper or cardboard.  Because they are browsers, they nibble on most items to test if it is edible.  They will eat your shrubbery, roses, and trim your trees to the height of a goat reaching from the ground.  They wont just graze on grass so if that is what your menfolk want to have grazed off, get sheep.  Goats will eat brush, some grass, and particularly love juicy green weeds.  Once that is gone (sooner than you may expect) they will require god quality hay.  If the hay is fed on the ground or falls on the ground they will refuse to eat t once it is soiled.  *Goats are extremely picky eaters. * This is why they seldom get worms, unlike sheep who will eat off the ground.  Your best bet is a keyhole feeder.  These are easy to make and will keep the goats from pulling the hay out of the feeder onto the ground where they will walk on it and then refuse to eat it, wasting your hay budget.  Unless they are producing milk, goats do not need a grain ration.  Hay is the best feed unless they have access to forage.  Also, even if the feeder has hay in it, if it is not nice and leafy, the goats may refuse to eat the rough stalky bits.  We raised calves on our goat milk (my boys were milking 12-18 does a day by then) and fed the leftover stalky hay to the calves.  You can also feed it to your horses.

5.  You don't need to keep more than 2 goats.  If you are using them for milk production they have to be bred every year to produce kids and milk.  There are several ways to do this.  
a.   If you have children that are in 4-H, they might want registered goats so they can show. In that case, buy registered animals and breed to registered bucks.  Be prepared to keep doe kids that are produced since your children will want to show them too.  
b.   If you want milk but don't want to keep any kids and you like the taste of goat and lamb, you might decide to breed your dairy does to a Boer buck and raise the kids for meat.  You can eat any goat kids, but Boers will put more flesh on the carcass.  
c.   If you don't want to eat your own goat kids, take them to the livestock auction in your area at around 3 months old.  Good prices are paid for goat kids of that age.  The benefit of this option is that you don't have to disbud or castrate.  
d.   If you don't want milk for the house, or plan to breed, get* 2 bottle fed disbudded wethers *of any breed and keep them as pets.  The smaller breeds tend to jump on top of things more than the larger breeds.  

5.  All goats can figure out a way to escape from their pens, but I have sheep that do that too.  Also had horses that could open the corral gate with their lips to get out.  Pigs as well.  Escape artists come in all species - ask Farmerjan!  Her escapees go to auction!  LOL

6.  There are lots of books out there.  I would recommend one that is general knowledge about milk or dairy goats.  That way if you decide to milk it will cover how to mik care of the milk, etc.  General knowledge books also cover housing, building feeders and stanchions, feed storage, health, etc.  Try the library first.

If you really cannot stand goats, do not et them buffalo you into accepting them.  Try getting a bummer hair lamb and raising it on a bottle.  It will be super friendly.  The same thing applies to training, and there are differences in feeding, but you only want to have something you enjoy.  Don't get a wool breed or yo will have to find someone to shear for you annually.  Shearers are getting harder to fd and are getting more expensive if you can find them.  Sometimes, you can find a 4-H kid who wants to make money and will do it for you, but if you don't have any 4-Hers that raise sheep near you you will have to pay a lot.  If you don't spin, why bother with a wool breed?  Get a Dorper, Katahdin, or other hair breed.  They shed out their wool in the spring an summer so you don't have to shear.

One thing about sheep though - Rams are far more dangerous than buck goats.  Never turn your back on a ram.  Personally, I never turn my back on any male animal.  It's just good common sense.  I have never been butted by a buck or ram.  DH and DS3 who are experienced (but male themselves) have been butted from behind when they ignored that advice.  They think the ram won't take them - wrong!  Rams can be sneaky.  Stay away from rams f you go with sheep.

Hope this helps you a bit.  Like I say I can't believe that people in the neighborhood put up with that buck running loose for so long.  I would have shot him and followed the 3 S rule!


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## KaleIAm (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm sorry you had those experiences when you were younger, I would be afraid of goats, too, if I had gone through that!

I'm not very experienced with goats, so take others' advice over mine.  We have had two nigerian dwarf wethers for 8 years now.  One is the sweetest, like a well behaved good dog.  The other is mischievous and naughty, head butts the good goat in the belly, and even scrapes his horns on my thighs leaving deep bruises.  The "naughty one" gets upset if I pet the "good one" or give him treats or dinner first.  When he's upset he takes it out on the good goat, or me.  

I posted about my goat drama here and got some great advice.  It really helped a lot, but I have to constantly be this dominant presence prepared to chase the naughty goat down and show him that I am the boss.  It is exhausting.






						Goat behavior questions - our wether isn't very nice!
					

We have 2 Nigerian dwarf wethers.  The "nice one," Doc (9.5 years old) is basically perfect.  And the "mischievous one," Mullie (8.5 years old) who is my reason for posting.  We got our pet goats about 7.5 years ago, from a shelter.  They weren't raised together, the shelter put them together...



					www.backyardherds.com
				




If they were both like the good goat it would be so different.  He relaxing and casual to spend time with.


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## B&B Happy goats (Apr 7, 2021)

We love our Nigerians, no escaping or trying to,  or head butting and no problems other than we live in the hot humid florida climate where parasites  THRIVE


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## Ridgetop (Apr 7, 2021)

Good training on your part have made them good pets.  I love goat personalities.


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## Miohippus (Apr 7, 2021)

It’s a possibility he was a bottle baby most bottle babies that weren’t raised around other goats act like that, they weren’t trained by the herd how to behave. Or if he was sold young and kept by himself and treated like a pet it could also cause that type of behavior I believe. 
I had a buck that had been a bottle baby and when he was in rut he always tried to attack me one time he got out and when we were trying to get him back in the pen he pinned me against the car, We decided not to use bottle babies for bucks anymore after that, I haven’t had any problems with any of the Dam raised bucks I have had


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## Jesusfreak101 (Apr 7, 2021)

I have bottle baby bucks that dont act that way.


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## Nommie Bringeruvda Noms (Apr 7, 2021)

Just for the record, all my goats have horns. We have heavy predator pressure, and I won't leave them defenseless. My goats have never intentionally hurt me, and only occasional small bruises, from them and/or me accidentally trying to change the laws of physics. Be gentle with them, and never use their horns as a means of controlling them, and they won't use them against you.


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## Physhyr (Apr 7, 2021)

Highland Meadows said:


> My husband and father-in-law keep pushing for goats on the farm. I am however, to put it bluntly quite terrified of goats lol Now you are probably thinking that's absurd and I won't argue with you it might sound very silly to most people. The story behind my fear of goats starts when I was 10. Our next door neighbor kept a single buck (I believe nubian). It was "disbuded" , but of course his horns grew back and they NEVER had it fenced they just let this guy free roam. My parents always made me walk to my grandmother's house every day which was on the other side of this neighbors house with the goat. This goat would always come onto the road to chase me, head butt me and even would try to jump on me (I'm assuming mount since he was alone all of the time). I would layer my clothes and wear an oversized canvas carhartt coat to try and cushion myself from this goat and even then I would have grapefruit sized bruises on my sides and scrapes all over. He even nicked my face with a horn one once and I still to this day have a small scar from where he got a little chunk of skin out of my face. Eventually the neighbors were forced to get rid of the goat because I wasn't the goats only victim and other neighbors complained. He would attack anyone on the road walking, he even attacked the neighbors little dog when she was taking it for a walk and then the goat started to headbutt people trying to knock them off of their bicycles. He also went full crazy and started trying to headbutt cars that drove by (it was a dirt road so most people didn't drive above 20 mph). I still to this day avoid going anywhere near goats, but my husband and father-in-law LOVE goats. They have been planning out a goat yard and goat barn while I'm sitting here sweating up a storm watching my childhood fears come to life again😅 However, I don't want to let my fear stop him from getting goats if that's what he wants. Basically I'm willing to learn and try, but need a little reassuring before he brings any goats home. So my questions are based on your personal experience:
> 
> -What goat breeds are the most docile?
> -Are male goats in general very aggressive?
> ...


From my experience unneutered males can be more aggressive or pushy.  My wethers (neutered males) are very sweet (both were bottle babies), and my bottle baby doelings are very sweet as well.  I would recommend getting bottle raised goats because they are imprinted on people so they tend to be friendlier.  My goats will climb on me if I sit outside with them, but they aren't rough- just play.


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## MamaGoneCrazy (Apr 8, 2021)

Highland Meadows said:


> My husband and father-in-law keep pushing for goats on the farm. I am however, to put it bluntly quite terrified of goats lol Now you are probably thinking that's absurd and I won't argue with you it might sound very silly to most people. The story behind my fear of goats starts when I was 10. Our next door neighbor kept a single buck (I believe nubian). It was "disbuded" , but of course his horns grew back and they NEVER had it fenced they just let this guy free roam. My parents always made me walk to my grandmother's house every day which was on the other side of this neighbors house with the goat. This goat would always come onto the road to chase me, head butt me and even would try to jump on me (I'm assuming mount since he was alone all of the time). I would layer my clothes and wear an oversized canvas carhartt coat to try and cushion myself from this goat and even then I would have grapefruit sized bruises on my sides and scrapes all over. He even nicked my face with a horn one once and I still to this day have a small scar from where he got a little chunk of skin out of my face. Eventually the neighbors were forced to get rid of the goat because I wasn't the goats only victim and other neighbors complained. He would attack anyone on the road walking, he even attacked the neighbors little dog when she was taking it for a walk and then the goat started to headbutt people trying to knock them off of their bicycles. He also went full crazy and started trying to headbutt cars that drove by (it was a dirt road so most people didn't drive above 20 mph). I still to this day avoid going anywhere near goats, but my husband and father-in-law LOVE goats. They have been planning out a goat yard and goat barn while I'm sitting here sweating up a storm watching my childhood fears come to life again😅 However, I don't want to let my fear stop him from getting goats if that's what he wants. Basically I'm willing to learn and try, but need a little reassuring before he brings any goats home. So my questions are based on your personal experience:
> 
> -What goat breeds are the most docile?
> -Are male goats in general very aggressive?
> ...


I am so sorry who had that horrible experience! But I think it’s important to face your fears if you want to. Don’t be pushed into something you really don’t want to do!

We have Boers. We started this past summer with 3 females and 1 male, all adults. And ended up having 5 baby goats born around New Years! So we are super new to goats and making a ton of mistakes I’m sure but I’m learning so much. Our male likes to be petted. He’s very friendly. But my 5 year old son hit him with a stick once and the goat, Chuck, hasn’t forgotten that so he does mess with my son if he is in the goat pasture. (Which is a good lesson for my child.) Have you thought about the dwarf goats? That might be a good reintroduction to goats. I love having goats! They are doing a great job at cleaning up our pasture 😉


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## Mini Horses (Apr 8, 2021)

Goats are smart!  I've had some or a lot for many years now.   I liked my Boers, they were a friendly and non aggressive group, overall.  I led my bucks with a collar.  Same with my Nubians  & Saanens now.   The one you had around as a child was totally out of control!   The bucks will want to rub on you but I've not had any attack!   If several together and you have treats, you might get pushed as they crowd in for their share.  😁   My regular milkers know their name and come to it when called.   If it's milking time, others will come and know their turn in line.  Of course I have 20 now, plus 16 kids.   Only a couple would be like having a couple big dogs walking with me. 

I hope you are able to visit some goats that have been handled properly.   They really are nice animals and very social.  But you fear is well founded!!  Don't apologize for it.  Starting with young ones would most likely work best for you.  Like many have said.    The hair sheep may be an option.


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## mutchi (Apr 8, 2021)

Umm most male goats are mean but if treated properly they can be the sweetest!


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## Taffy&Pretzel (Apr 8, 2021)

H


Highland Meadows said:


> My husband and father-in-law keep pushing for goats on the farm. I am however, to put it bluntly quite terrified of goats lol Now you are probably thinking that's absurd and I won't argue with you it might sound very silly to most people. The story behind my fear of goats starts when I was 10. Our next door neighbor kept a single buck (I believe nubian). It was "disbuded" , but of course his horns grew back and they NEVER had it fenced they just let this guy free roam. My parents always made me walk to my grandmother's house every day which was on the other side of this neighbors house with the goat. This goat would always come onto the road to chase me, head butt me and even would try to jump on me (I'm assuming mount since he was alone all of the time). I would layer my clothes and wear an oversized canvas carhartt coat to try and cushion myself from this goat and even then I would have grapefruit sized bruises on my sides and scrapes all over. He even nicked my face with a horn one once and I still to this day have a small scar from where he got a little chunk of skin out of my face. Eventually the neighbors were forced to get rid of the goat because I wasn't the goats only victim and other neighbors complained. He would attack anyone on the road walking, he even attacked the neighbors little dog when she was taking it for a walk and then the goat started to headbutt people trying to knock them off of their bicycles. He also went full crazy and started trying to headbutt cars that drove by (it was a dirt road so most people didn't drive above 20 mph). I still to this day avoid going anywhere near goats, but my husband and father-in-law LOVE goats. They have been planning out a goat yard and goat barn while I'm sitting here sweating up a storm watching my childhood fears come to life again😅 However, I don't want to let my fear stop him from getting goats if that's what he wants. Basically I'm willing to learn and try, but need a little reassuring before he brings any goats home. So my questions are based on your personal experience:
> 
> -What goat breeds are the most docile?
> -Are male goats in general very aggressive?
> ...


Hi, I believe that buck acted that way mainly cause he was alone and bored and had no company. I also think it could have been part of his personality which is hit or miss but if both the goats parents are calm the kid is most likely to also be calm. If you were to get male goats make sure they are castrated and that will soothe their buck tendencies but not completely. 
In most cases just 2 goats is enough to keep each other company as long as they become friends. 
One of the best goat books I can recommend is Holistic Goat Care by Caldwell. If you want a smaller calm goat that are super friendly I recommend Nigerian Dwarf Goats. They also make great milkers if that’s something you would want to do in the future


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## Beekissed (Apr 8, 2021)

I don't like goats either, though not a bit scared of them....just don't like them overall for various reasons.  If I were forced to keep goats, I think the Boers would be the most likely candidates.....good meat quality for good market yields, they seem to stay in fencing better than most goats and utilize graze quite well and they seem more docile.  I could be wrong about all of that but just observations of the Boers with which I've come in contact and observed on farms over the years.  

Boers in these parts are bringing good money, both on the market and in private sales.


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## goatyyymama164 (Apr 8, 2021)

Highland Meadows said:


> My husband and father-in-law keep pushing for goats on the farm. I am however, to put it bluntly quite terrified of goats lol Now you are probably thinking that's absurd and I won't argue with you it might sound very silly to most people. The story behind my fear of goats starts when I was 10. Our next door neighbor kept a single buck (I believe nubian). It was "disbuded" , but of course his horns grew back and they NEVER had it fenced they just let this guy free roam. My parents always made me walk to my grandmother's house every day which was on the other side of this neighbors house with the goat. This goat would always come onto the road to chase me, head butt me and even would try to jump on me (I'm assuming mount since he was alone all of the time). I would layer my clothes and wear an oversized canvas carhartt coat to try and cushion myself from this goat and even then I would have grapefruit sized bruises on my sides and scrapes all over. He even nicked my face with a horn one once and I still to this day have a small scar from where he got a little chunk of skin out of my face. Eventually the neighbors were forced to get rid of the goat because I wasn't the goats only victim and other neighbors complained. He would attack anyone on the road walking, he even attacked the neighbors little dog when she was taking it for a walk and then the goat started to headbutt people trying to knock them off of their bicycles. He also went full crazy and started trying to headbutt cars that drove by (it was a dirt road so most people didn't drive above 20 mph). I still to this day avoid going anywhere near goats, but my husband and father-in-law LOVE goats. They have been planning out a goat yard and goat barn while I'm sitting here sweating up a storm watching my childhood fears come to life again😅 However, I don't want to let my fear stop him from getting goats if that's what he wants. Basically I'm willing to learn and try, but need a little reassuring before he brings any goats home. So my questions are based on your personal experience:
> 
> -What goat breeds are the most docile?
> -Are male goats in general very aggressive?
> ...


This is the exact opposite of us.  I LOVE goats but my husband hates them (because of their evil eyes I guess) .


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## Ridgetop (Apr 8, 2021)

We had around 100 dairy goats at one time.  Milking up to 20, the others ere dry kids and yearlings.  We divided up the goats that we would freshen as yearlings to make up our herds and get/produce classes for shows and fairs.  (Premium $$ paid on all classes).  Disbudded our Boers because they went to 4-H and FFA kids for Fair projects.  No horns allowed in youth shows.  Kept some does with horns to sell at Boer shows.

I disbudded my goats because we showed them and no horns were allowed.  I had guardian dogs for my stock and never lost any goats.  It is personal for me not to have horned animals.  I still have a scar in my leg where a horned Pygmy tossed his head and tore open my leg when I was feeding for a friend.  I lost a horned Boer who got tangled in a feeder and brought it down on top of her.  Lost another horned Boer who hung up in a fence. Since Highland Meadows got torn up by a goat with horns/scurs, she may feel safer with a disbudded goat.  What works for one doesn't always work for another - everyone makes their own choices with no judgment on them.

We also kept at least 4-6 bucks in their own pen, 1 Nubian, 3+ LaManchas, and 1 Boer.  None of them behaved like the buck Highland Meadows described.  None of them were mean.  The Nubian and LaManchas were bottle fed kids raised by our children.  During breeding season our children would go in the pen and choose whichever one was to be used, put him on a leash and led him out.  We did not pen bred any of our dairy does.  We hand bred them on leashes with the bucks.  No problems with any bucks.  We also collected semen from our bucks during rut.  This meant we had to handle them, loading them in the trailer, taking them to the collection site and leading them into the collection chute.  *Our bucks were well behaved.  We had trained them to be well behaved.  *

We pen bred our Boer goats with a harness and crayon on the Boer buck.  He was mama raised.   He was not a pet.  He had big horns as did all our purebred purchased Boer does.  I would go into the pen 2x daily to feed.  It was a small breeding pen 12'x24'.  Horse corral with wire so no way to escape if he charged me. I would change the harness crayon and adjust the harness by myself.  *No problems with bad behavior from that buck either.   We got him as a kid and trained him.*

There are nice dispositions and mean ones.  *CULL the mean ones.  Train the nice ones. * Training goes for all species.  Train your rams not to go for you and keep an eye on them.  Train your horses, mules, donkeys, cattle, sheep, goats, and hogs to *NOT* attack you.  Rabbits that bite go in the pot. Mean animals go to the auction or freezer.  Would you keep a dog that wasn't trained and attacked you?  TRAINING!   

My son had a registered Hampshire ram that attacked anyone in his pen.  Once in a halter he was docile, could be led around, and shown in the ring.  It needs experience to deal with dangerous male animals.  If you don't have the experience, or the desire to deal with the dangerous ones, *DON'T keep them.* 

*Temperament is temperament.  Neutering can calm down male animals but it doesn't change basic temperament.  Remember the mantra "it's always the owner."*

Some of the pushiest goats I have been around have been Pygmies.  Highland Meadows has a fear of goats.  *It's a rational fear considering her experiences.  *If her FIL and DH want to keep animals that terrify her, they should keep them at FIL's house!


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## farmerjan (Apr 8, 2021)

I need a horse said:


> Umm most male goats are mean but if treated properly they can be the sweetest!


Have to disagree,  "most male goats are NOT mean".... some are, but it is as much a learned behavior and reaction to treatment, as it is from not learning their place in the hierarchy of things, and boredom.   That is like saying most bulls are mean or most male dogs bite.


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