# Getting Impatient...



## Apaulsen2890

Heifer:






 Cow: 

 

 




We have two cows that should be calving any day... But I've thought that for about a week now.  These are the first cows we've had and I'm pretty nervous...  The older cow, who is the mother of our other one, has been bagged up for over a week now. And she looks awful springy... Her stuff bounces all over the place.  But still no calf!  The other is a heifer. She's finally developing udders and is getting a bit springy. Can anyone give me an idea of when We should expect to see a calf? Thee pictures are from yesterday.  
Please do not mind the mud in the pictures. I could only get them by the feed bin because the bull isn't thrilled about anyone getting near his women....


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## TAH

Apaulsen2890 said:


> Heifer:
> View attachment 18822
> View attachment 18821 Cow: View attachment 18818 View attachment 18819
> View attachment 18820
> 
> We have two cows that should be calving any day... But I've thought that for about a week now.  These are the first cows we've had and I'm pretty nervous...  The older cow, who is the mother of our other one, has been bagged up for over a week now. And she looks awful springy... Her stuff bounces all over the place.  But still no calf!  The other is a heifer. She's finally developing udders and is getting a bit springy. Can anyone give me an idea of when We should expect to see a calf? Thee pictures are from yesterday.
> Please do not mind the mud in the pictures. I could only get them by the feed bin because the bull isn't thrilled about anyone getting near his women....


I will tag some people hew will know.

@cjc 
@WildRoseBeef


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## Apaulsen2890

Thanks!


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## Goatgirl47

One of my cows is due to calve with her second calf on June 25, and has been bagging up for the past two weeks. She has been slower then usual (and usually she's VERY slow) when we bring them to and from the pasture every morning and night, and she looks ready to burst!

Do you know the date that your cows were bred? Or were they in with the bull for a few months?


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## Apaulsen2890

The bull went in with the on August 27th and hasn't been out since.  I have no clue when the deed was actually committed. We saw him trying a few times a few days later but nothing that looks successful. But obviously he got them at some point since they're huge haha!  Our older cow is slowing down and walking kinda funny especially with her udders getting bigger. Tonight when they got grain she had very little interest in food. She just kind of stared off into space. Usually she's the biggest hog of them all!


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## Goatgirl47

Then I'd say that the older cow will calve within the next few weeks, and the heifer, if she just started bagging up, has probably 3-5 weeks left (all of our first-calf heifers always started developing an udder about a month from calving). But that is just my guess.  

Good luck! I'm looking forward to seeing calf pictures soon.  BTW, is the bull a Hereford too?


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## Apaulsen2890

Oh my goodness! I hope it's not that long!  It wasn't long after the bull was let out before the he was on them so I can't see it being too much longer. I'm talking less than a week and he was doing the deed. If he got them the day he was out they would have been due on the 5th. 
The heifer has been getting an udder for a while. Her teets started getting big and were filled up looking yesterday when they came in to get grain.


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## Apaulsen2890

And yes he's a Hereford but we think he's maybe a little mix. Here's some pics of the big boy!


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## TAH

Apaulsen2890 said:


> View attachment 18859 View attachment 18860 View attachment 18861 And yes he's a Hereford but we think he's maybe a little mix. Here's some pics of the big boy!


@cjc Should know if he is a mix.


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## cjc

Just based on the pictures I think that your heifer is a little bit away. I would say about 4 weeks would be my guess. I just had a heifer calve today with a small bag like yours has. As many people told me heifers can be confusing by the bag. But a clear sign with our last heifers have been their back end. It gets really "sloppy" and they will start to hold their tails to the side a ton. Pay attention to any discharge. Once you start to see a clear discharge it wont be too long. Our heifers bag is not nearly as tight as our cows are before they calve. I think you will expect bigger changes in her back end before she calves.

I think your cow will be sooner as her bag is really full. I would be thinking it won't be too long for her.

I think your bull is a mix, I can always see a Hereford mix by the curly hair on the top of the head. Only our cross bred Herefords have that curly hair do.


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## Apaulsen2890

I already think they seem sloppy back there now haha! I guess I'll be shocked by how much worse it can get. Hopefully it'll be soon as we're both on vacation this week.  Every time I think there's no way her udders can get much bigger she does lol
Any idea what he could be mixed with?


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## cjc

I don't think it will be too much longer for your cow. Heifers are tough though. My last one that just calved today I got some people saying probably 4 months, some people saying any day and then boom! Calf in the field!

He could be a pure bred now that I really look at him. I have a few that were bred to a Red Angus, they look like Herefords still.


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## cjc

Have a look at my post "Bred Heifer?" the last picture I took of our heifer in that post was 10 days prior to her calving. You can see how sloppy her back end looks but how not full her bag is


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## Apaulsen2890

Fingers crossed its soon!  Congrats on the calf! Super cute!  Our heifer definitely isn't to the point that yours was in the picture...   but she's getting more of a bag now than yours had.  Who knows... This whole waiting thing drives me nuts! 
On another note our guinea eggs weren't supposed to hatch until Thursday but some are working on coming today!!! So much for due dates!


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## cjc

We had a heifer last season who bagged up 2 weeks before and then we noticed the changes to her back end maybe 2 days prior to her calving. In our experience though its all in the back end with a heifer.

But yes that's so true on due dates! According to my calendar I was supposed to have this last one a month ago. We exposed ours to a bull for 7 months so most obviously didn't take in their first cycle. How long was yours with the bull?


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## Apaulsen2890

I've read that the changes in their back end is the best indicator of impending calving but it's frustrating because there's so few clear information on what exactly to watch for. I've heard of springing and they sure look springy already! Lol
Our cows have been with our bull since August 27th. He hasn't left the pasture since then.


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## cjc

This is a blunt way to put it but their vaginas look like they triple in size. They get very loose and floppy and you will start to notice a clear fluid coming out. There is another way to check by pushing on their side right by their tail. How quiet are these girls, can you handle them?


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## Apaulsen2890

I'd say they're about double right now.  I could maybe get close enough to the cow to do that.  Maybe...    The heifer no way!


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## cjc

Here is a response I got from CattleToday when I posted about my heifer:

"Oh and another thing you can keep an eye on is this ligament beside her tail. Take 2 fingers and push on it, like you were squishing a marshmellow or something. It should normally be really tight/hard feeling. As they start preparing for delivery they will generally loosen up and get elasticky and soft feeling. This will signal she is getting quite close, and preparing to make room and give birth - we call this 'dropping away'. Calf comes within the coming hours or a day tops usually. The more of them you feel, the more you'll get used to the changes you're looking for"


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## Apaulsen2890

Well I tried to get near her today but she was far too interested in eating and sandwiched herself between the bull and heifer who don't enjoy people.  Lol maybe tomorrow!


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## cjc

Do you have a head gate? We learnt very quickly that it's super hard to raise cows/calves without a squeeze or head gate.


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## Apaulsen2890

Nope. They're out in a pasture with a shed to get into and a fairly wide run to get over to feed and water by the barn.


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## cjc

Unless you have extremely quiet cows you'll likely never be able to check them this way. Ours we couldn't and its why I don't haha. We got a squeeze because we knew if we had any issues we couldn't properly help our girls. The calves we can manage for the first two months but after that we could not restrain them. If you get into this as a regular thing, I know you said you just started, I would suggest getting a squeeze chute. Will make the world of a difference when taking care of them. Pretty hard to vaccinate a cow that wont let you touch it and if these girls will be reproducing for you they will need to be kept up on their health.


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## Apaulsen2890

If we had to we could get them down and into our barn into a stall. It's not far away but the horses use the run in and it was getting too messy too quickly with cows in it as well.  How old should calves be when they are vaccinated?


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## Apaulsen2890

Can we just call the vet to do it??? Lol


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## cjc

It's unsolicited advice but if you continue to breed get yourself a head gate. Getting them in a stall won't be enough, you need something to keep them still. Our vet won't help unless unless they are in a head gate.

When the calves are born you need to immediately clean their navels in iodine. Also administer a shot of vitamin A&D and vitamin E&selenium, these are really important. At one week old give it a pneumonia nasal spray something like enforce 3. At 3 months old give an 8 way vaccine something like covexin 8. You will need to booster the 8 way 8 weeks later and then again at 6 months. 

It's best to have colostrum on hand if you can get it. Have a bottle and a tube feeder. We have started giving all new calves colostrum on day 1 regardless of if they are nursing and MAKE SURE they are nursing. The calf should nurse shortly after birth. Especially watch your heifer. It's best to move her and her calf into a small pen for the first few days. It's easier to watch them and make sure the calf is feeding as well as helps them bond. 

If you are castrating your bull calves do it before they are 8 weeks old. Any older and it's harder and worse for the calf. 

It's best to handle the calves young. Get them used to a halter and tie them to a post for 30 mins a day. This will keep them friendly. You don't want another jumpy one like your heifer. Not good without proper handling equipment. Catching it for its 6 month vaccine will be near impossible if it's not super friendly without a head hate. It will be 300lbs by then.


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## Apaulsen2890

The cow is my father's and he doesn't want to vaccinate his calf. We didn't give the cow any meds prior to being bred which i read is apparently a thing. His motto is that cows have been having calves for years without help....   We do have the tool to band a bull calf though.


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## WildRoseBeef

That bull has a lot of Simmental in him. Like a lot, more than Hereford. If he were even 3/4 Hereford he'd have more of a white stripe down the top of his neck than he has shown here. I've seen red-necked Herefords but they still looked like your typical Hereford. Not this guy. And the forehead is SO Simmental, just the shape of it and the ears and both patches over the eyes. I'd peg him, without asking, at 3/4 Simmental and 1/4 Hereford.


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## Apaulsen2890

Is that a good or a bad thing? I don't know much about that breed.


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## WildRoseBeef

Apaulsen2890 said:


> Heifer:
> View attachment 18822
> View attachment 18821 Cow: View attachment 18818 View attachment 18819
> View attachment 18820
> 
> We have two cows that should be calving any day... But I've thought that for about a week now.  These are the first cows we've had and I'm pretty nervous...  The older cow, who is the mother of our other one, has been bagged up for over a week now. And she looks awful springy... Her stuff bounces all over the place.  But still no calf!  The other is a heifer. She's finally developing udders and is getting a bit springy. Can anyone give me an idea of when We should expect to see a calf? Thee pictures are from yesterday.
> Please do not mind the mud in the pictures. I could only get them by the feed bin because the bull isn't thrilled about anyone getting near his women....



I forgot what @cjc's prediction where, but my guesstimate is Heifer: 2 or 3 months away; Cow: 3 to 4 weeks. I never go by the udder. I always go by the vulva and the tail-head. The udder can fill up well before calving time. But that vulva getting loosey-goosey and the tail-head sinking in are big-time indicators that the cow or heifer is very close to calving. Your heifer's vulva is still tight and the tail-head too high up to be even close. But the cow is getting there. 

Patience, my dear, patience. Trust me, waiting for a cow or heifer to calve is like waiting for water to boil.


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## WildRoseBeef

Apaulsen2890 said:


> Is that a good or a bad thing? I don't know much about that breed.



Depends. Simmentals are big-time milkers and take a bit more TLC to keep. Depending on the bloodlines, some Simmentals are prone to throwing some big calves too. The Hereford in him should help a little, but without any knowledge of his bloodlines it's hard to tell. Hopefully he won't throw too big of calves for your heifers, but time will tell (and sorry to scare you...!) 

But boy do they look good when they get proper nutrition; fill out nice, and muscle up great too. Big animals, you can consider them a bit of a dual-purpose breed because the Swiss use Fleckvieh cows (very, very closely related to the Simmental; they're, you could say, a dual-purpose dairy breed) for milk, and the cows flesh out well for meat too. And generally they have great temperament; the Simmental cattle I've worked around were generally easy-going, a few had some high-headed attitudes but that wasn't as common as like with Charolais or Limousin. The moms can be protective though; I had one heifer curl her lip up at me when I was getting a picture of her and her new calf. 

Not bad animals, just the downside is big calves and extra attention needed to their nutrition.


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## WildRoseBeef

Apaulsen2890 said:


> If we had to we could get them down and into our barn into a stall. It's not far away but the horses use the run in and it was getting too messy too quickly with cows in it as well.  How old should calves be when they are vaccinated?


You have to invest in getting a head-gate, no question. When you have animals that won't let you go near them no matter what you need a head-gate, and so would the vet too if he/she needs to come out to doctor one of your animals. 

You might also want to consider start thinking about a handling facility. It doesn't need to be fancy or anything, but functional and purposeful enough to run your animals through without issue. It takes quite a bit of planning to do, but in the end it's worth it. 

It's more common to vaccinate cows prior to calving than you might think. It's less of a thing to not vaccinate pregnant cows than it was 50 years go. No need to vaccinate if you have a closed herd (no new animals coming in for a long period of time; no new bulls, no new heifers, etc.), but if you get new animals in even once every few years, it's needed. And of course vaccinating is different from pulling a calf. It's cool to have cows and heifers that can calve without assistance, but not when you have cattle without immunity to some nasty diseases out there, namely BVD and blackleg.


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## Apaulsen2890

WildRoseBeef said:


> I forgot what @cjc's prediction where, but my guesstimate is Heifer: 2 or 3 months away; Cow: 3 to 4 weeks. I never go by the udder. I always go by the vulva and the tail-head. The udder can fill up well before calving time. But that vulva getting loosey-goosey and the tail-head sinking in are big-time indicators that the cow or heifer is very close to calving. Your heifer's vulva is still tight and the tail-head too high up to be even close. But the cow is getting there.
> 
> Patience, my dear, patience. Trust me, waiting for a cow or heifer to calve is like waiting for water to boil.



Oh my goodness!!! Weeks??? We only saw him on them early on. Nothing after a month of him being here. So months away seems a bit much...


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## Apaulsen2890

WildRoseBeef said:


> Depends. Simmentals are big-time milkers and take a bit more TLC to keep. Depending on the bloodlines, some Simmentals are prone to throwing some big calves too. The Hereford in him should help a little, but without any knowledge of his bloodlines it's hard to tell. Hopefully he won't throw too big of calves for your heifers, but time will tell (and sorry to scare you...!)
> 
> But boy do they look good when they get proper nutrition; fill out nice, and muscle up great too. Big animals, you can consider them a bit of a dual-purpose breed because the Swiss use Fleckvieh cows (very, very closely related to the Simmental; they're, you could say, a dual-purpose dairy breed) for milk, and the cows flesh out well for meat too. And generally they have great temperament; the Simmental cattle I've worked around were generally easy-going, a few had some high-headed attitudes but that wasn't as common as like with Charolais or Limousin. The moms can be protective though; I had one heifer curl her lip up at me when I was getting a picture of her and her new calf.
> 
> Not bad animals, just the downside is big calves and extra attention needed to their nutrition.



We know nothing of his bloodlines.  He was bought at an auction by the guy we got him from.  I have the vet on speed dial if something goes wrong.  He's very chill so hopefully they'll stay that way.


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## Apaulsen2890

WildRoseBeef said:


> You have to invest in getting a head-gate, no question. When you have animals that won't let you go near them no matter what you need a head-gate, and so would the vet too if he/she needs to come out to doctor one of your animals.
> 
> You might also want to consider start thinking about a handling facility. It doesn't need to be fancy or anything, but functional and purposeful enough to run your animals through without issue. It takes quite a bit of planning to do, but in the end it's worth it.
> 
> It's more common to vaccinate cows prior to calving than you might think. It's less of a thing to not vaccinate pregnant cows than it was 50 years go. No need to vaccinate if you have a closed herd (no new animals coming in for a long period of time; no new bulls, no new heifers, etc.), but if you get new animals in even once every few years, it's needed. And of course vaccinating is different from pulling a calf. It's cool to have cows and heifers that can calve without assistance, but not when you have cattle without immunity to some nasty diseases out there, namely BVD and blackleg.



If we can't too close to them how do we even get them in a gate?  We could get them in a stall and push them to the wall if we had to. They're pretty mellow in a stall. We can't ever really support more than 5 animals at a time so we won't be adding more for at least a year. And at that itd just be a new bull.


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## cjc

There are a lot of youtube clips on how to get a cow through a handling system. You would basically put them in a bud box and get them to walk through a chute, from the chute they would walk into the squeeze or the head gate. Cows will walk forward, even our craziest cows we have got into the squeeze. Here is a picture of the system that we built with the advice of @WildRoseBeef

When a cow/calf is distressed or you are trying to inject it they will spook easy. Even quiet cows. Breeding cows is a different business, its not as easy as buying a few yearlings and raising them for meat. Things happen, cows/calves get sick. The cow that you see in the picture is a very quiet cow. She had a bout of foot rot because of all the rain we had a few months ago. I tried for 2 days to get her to allow me to inject her but I needed to get 15ml of liquid into her muscle. That's a slow injection and I needed to do it all in one dose. Without the head gate I wouldn't have been able to get her better again.



 




I would suggest that its best to vaccinate your cows/calves. My first calf died because I thought all natural was the best way to go. I know people do this and don't have any problems and I do understand where your dad is coming from. But...in the wild, their natural environment their survival rate is significantly lower than they are on the farm. Raising cows is like a trade. We give them health and food and in exchange in the end they give us their life. I feel obligated to give these calves a good start at life and sometimes that needs science.


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## Latestarter

IMHO, some folks go completely overboard with the "all natural" stigma. There's a difference between feeding steroids & growth hormones to create franken-animals that grow at unnatural rates for quicker slaughter for market, and dosing with antibiotics because you have animals cramped together unnaturally, causing widespread diseases. If you are properly caring for your animals and they are eating a well balanced diet and living with plenty of space, they should grow fine and be perfectly healthy. Vaccinations that protect the animal's health, though not available to wild animals, protect your animal from death rates and diseases common to those same wild animals. If what you really want is "all natural" (sic wild game) then hunt for your meat and stop raising domestic breeds completely.

Of course there are all natural diseases and parasites present in wild game that CAN be transferred to humans... Then what ya gonna do? Not go to the hospital? Not take antibiotics? I wonder?

Opps... sorry, just realized I got on a soap box


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## Apaulsen2890

Our animals do have plenty of space and a good diet.  That's the logic for not vaccinating them.  Why fix it if it isn't broke?   And we do hunt our own meat, thank you.  There's three deer in freezer.  I personally don't like to eat beef but my parents do as well as several people we know who don't want all that medicine and are planning to buy the meat off us. If a cow gets sick then we will address the issue.  My 92 year old cattle farming grandfather and my uncle have never vaccinated. They just don't let their cows live in poor conditions and have been fine for the most part. I see no reason to pump them full of medicine unless necessary. 
And furthermore I'm pretty disappointment by the reactions on this site.  These are supposed to be about helping others, not telling people they're wrong because they choose to do things differently.


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## TAH

Apaulsen2890 said:


> Our animals do have plenty of space and a good diet.  That's the logic for not vaccinating them.  Why fix it if it isn't broke?   And we do hunt our own meat, thank you.  There's three deer in freezer.  I personally don't like to eat beef but my parents do as well as several people we know who don't want all that medicine and are planning to buy the meat off us. If a cow gets sick then we will address the issue.  My 92 year old cattle farming grandfather and my uncle have never vaccinated. They just don't let their cows live in poor conditions and have been fine for the most part. I see no reason to pump them full of medicine unless necessary.
> And furthermore I'm pretty disappointment by the reactions on this site.  These are supposed to be about helping others, not telling people they're wrong because they choose to do things differently.



We don't vaccine any of our animals and have never had a issue. we don't vaccines our animals in less there is a issue and it is needed. I am sorry you did  not get the answers you were looking for. The only reason dairy people give vaccines is because it is required and because some want to. I am glad that you care for your animals well beings.


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## Apaulsen2890

We don't even have dairy.  And if I eat the meat it's going into me.  Why would I want all that??? Why would anyone when it's not necessary??? Thanks TAH for acting in q respectful manner!


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## TAH

Your welcome. I wouldn't want it going into me. I get why you don't vaccine.


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## Apaulsen2890

I'm not an all natural freak but I avoid that extra junk when possible.  I just don't go out of my way for it other than by hunting and butchering my own meat.


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## Goat Whisperer

Apaulsen2890 said:


> These are supposed to be about helping others, not telling people they're wrong because they choose to do things differently.



I'm sorry, but this is a little disagreement. Hence the reason why some SUGGESTED you vaccinate. 

So, the FIVE PAGES of members trying to answer you isn't helpful? 
Why don't you browse around the forum, lots of helpful people 

I understand being a little upset over the one members post, but he does have a point. That is part of being on a forum, not everyone is going to agree. 

If you don't vaccinate and have healthy animals, that is on you. If you don't vaccinate and have animals dropping dead, that would be on you too. Whatever you do, its on you. Do what you wan't, members are just giving their opinion (I would consider that helpful). 

The world is filled with people that won't agree with you, but please don't insult all the members on this forum.


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## Apaulsen2890

Latestarter said:


> If what you really want is "all natural" (sic wild game) then hunt for your meat and stop raising domestic breeds completely.
> 
> Of course there are all natural diseases and parasites present in wild game that CAN be transferred to humans... Then what ya gonna do? Not go to the hospital? Not take antibiotics? I wonder?



This is what I'm referring to.  That's not necessary.  At all.


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## Bossroo

Apaulsen2890 said:


> This is what I'm referring to.  That's not necessary.  At all.


This type of comment isn't necessary at all eather.


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## Apaulsen2890

Back to the original point of the post, which was how long until calving, our heifer is in labor.


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## frustratedearthmother

Hope she has a beautiful healthy calf!


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## Latestarter

Vaccines aren't "medicines". I wasn't being rude, disrespectful, pointing fingers, nor was I degrading you for any choice you make, nor was I saying you were "wrong" for choosing not to vaccinate.

I was making a point, voicing my view regarding "all natural". I'm sorry that it's contrary to your opinion, upset you and that you took it personally.

I truly could care less whether you vaccinate or not... it's your personal choice. But that doesn't mean that my view on "all natural" will change.

I hope you have a successful calving, and soon, and that there are no medical or disease issues in any respect. Best wishes across the board.


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## TAH

WOW Were we off on the date. I am so happy that you don't have to wait 3-4 weeks -2 months. I hope we get pics of the new one when it is born.


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## micah wotring

Apaulsen2890 said:


> Back to the original point of the post, which was how long until calving, our heifer is in labor.


Woohooo!!!!
We think our cow is too.
Hope you have a good healthy calf with no birthing problems!

MW


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## Goatgirl47

Apaulsen2890 said:


> Back to the original point of the post, which was how long until calving, our heifer is in labor.



Yay! Can't wait to see pictures! I thought for sure that the older cow would calve first. Heifers are very unpredictable! 

And we don't vaccinate any of our cows/calves. We do vaccinate our goat kids for CD/T though, but that is all.


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## luvmypets




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## WildRoseBeef

Apaulsen2890 said:


> Oh my goodness!!! Weeks??? We only saw him on them early on. Nothing after a month of him being here. So months away seems a bit much...



Looking back at your original post I agree. My apologies. Let's go for "any day now..."


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## Apaulsen2890

No go... Vet came out.  Stillborn


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## Apaulsen2890

Looking to get a calf on her tomorrow if we can find one to buy


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## TAH

I am so sorry to hear this.


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## WildRoseBeef

Apaulsen2890 said:


> If we can't too close to them how do we even get them in a gate?  We could get them in a stall and push them to the wall if we had to. They're pretty mellow in a stall. We can't ever really support more than 5 animals at a time so we won't be adding more for at least a year. And at that itd just be a new bull.



The whole idea of a head-gate is to have control of their head. You don't have much control of their head in a stall, and I'm not sure how big those stalls of yours actually are. Once you have control of their head you can do anything with them: vaccinate, dehorn, castrate, preg-check, treat sick/injured cattle, etc. 

If you still don't like the option of a head-gate, a medina gate is another option. A medina puts the animal in between a gate and a fence or wall (and it's got to be sturdy) to hold its head so that you can work on it without it a) getting away on you, and b) stressing it out too much. It does not matter how calm or quiet cattle are, if they get stirred up once they're going to learn not to go back to that area again, which will make it even harder to corner them to do whatever you want with them. 

And the medina gate and/or squeeze chute or panels up to the head-gate shelter you from getting kicked. Just having them up at the wall with a halter and lead rope isn't going to prevent them from striking out at you or moving their rear ends around to avoid whatever painful, negative thing you're going to do to them next. Sure you can do the halter-to-the-wall method if you have a cow that is having trouble calving and you have nothing else to get her in with, but it's not the best way to do it. 

Good calm cattle can be ruined with bad experiences. They'll be nice and quiet in the field, but when you get them in a place where they've had past negative experiences, look out! And they never forget. 

So, as a forage/beef specialist with plenty of previous experience and mistakes made with working with rogue to gentle cattle, I highly recommend and suggest that you consider a tiny, simple handling facility. Something like CJC's is perfect: a little working alley leading up to a bud box, with a 16 to 20' laneway leading up to a head-gate. No need for those fancy-dancy crowding tubs and $7000 squeeze chute with all the bells and whistles, with a whole system running you over $50,000. No no, you can do it with only $1500, or even $1000 if you're lucky. 

The vaccinations where just helpful suggestions, that based on the train-wreck stories I've heard that I don't want to happen to you.


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## WildRoseBeef

Apaulsen2890 said:


> No go... Vet came out.  Stillborn



Oh crap, I'm real sorry to hear that.


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## TAH

@Apaulsen2890 where do you live I might be able to help you look for a calf?


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## BlessedWithGoats

Oh no! I'm so sorry about the calf!!


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## Apaulsen2890

We're in western pa


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## TAH

Apaulsen2890 said:


> We're in western pa


I am not sure where the best place to look. So I am sending you some CL ads for you to look at. 
http://lancaster.craigslist.org/grd/5622492305.html
http://lancaster.craigslist.org/grd/5633435486.html
http://york.craigslist.org/grd/5596885756.html

They were mostly jerseys.


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## Apaulsen2890

I checked cl out our way... All too old. I replied anyway asking for younger ones. Fingers crossed!!! 
I appreciate you sent those adds.  They're on the other side of the state though.  We'd be happy with a jersey steer.  I've heard they fill out nice.


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## TAH

Apaulsen2890 said:


> I checked cl out our way... All too old. I replied anyway asking for younger ones. Fingers crossed!!!
> I appreciate you sent those adds.  They're on the other side of the state though.  We'd be happy with a jersey steer.  I've heard they fill out nice.


Okay. . Hope everything works out for you.


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## Latestarter

Sorry for your loss. I hope you're able to find a replacement calf.


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## Apaulsen2890

There's lots of farms around tomorrow to call.  Worst case there's an auction tomorrow afternoon


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## BlessedWithGoats

I hope you're able to find a calf for her to foster!  Best wishes!


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## micah wotring

Soooo, sorry it didn't make it.
Hope your cow gives birth fine.
We can still be thankful the mom is OK.


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## cjc

Awe wow I am really sorry to hear that! Did the vet have any idea why it was a stillborn? Hard birth or was the calf not well?

I just recently bought a bottle baby and discovered an interesting thing! Many dairy farmers bred their heifers to beef cows to get a dairy/beef mix. The dairies that don't want to raise the calves do this. I discovered that these calves are for the most part VERY HEALTHY as most dairies have strict protocols to raising their herd. Perhaps that is an option for you? I got one for $150 and she would have gladly gone to one of our cows if we would have let her. The farmer would have handed me 50 if I would have been willing to take them. If not these calves are veal.

If not your idea of the auction could also be a good plan. Lots of calves are pulled from their dams when they try to auction them as pairs and the beef buyer doesn't want the calves. These calves would probably take well to your cow. But again, I am really sorry this happened. When you only have two cows the loss of one is hard. I lost one of my two last year.

I am sorry that you felt badly about the vaccine topic. Lots of opinions come from these forums and I tend to get passionate about these topics. It's only from a good place though, I love these animals and I only want the best for yours


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## Goatgirl47

I'm so sorry about her calf!  Hopefully you'll be able to find a foster for her...

Praying that the other cow will have a live, healthy calf.


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## Apaulsen2890

Well we finally did it.  My dad called a guy he knows with Holsteins and he happened to have a week old bull calf. He came about 1 and was terrified from the drive so we left them alone to get used to each other.  The calf was used to eating twice a day at milking time. It took us over an hour tonight to get him to realize what he was supposed to do since he's always been bottle fed. Never had the real thing before. We're head to toe covered in crap and milk but he's finally got the hang of it. They're happily resting in a stall in the barn, which worked just fine with last night too.  Just tied her head up and she was good. Long two days though! His name is Neo.


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## TAH

Apaulsen2890 said:


> Well we finally did it.  My dad called a guy he knows with Holsteins and he happened to have a week old bull calf. He came about 1 and was terrified from the drive so we left them alone to get used to each other.  The calf was used to eating twice a day at milking time. It took us over an hour tonight to get him to realize what he was supposed to do since he's always been bottle fed. Never had the real thing before. We're head to toe covered in crap and milk but he's finally got the hang of it. They're happily resting in a stall in the barn, which worked just fine with last night too.  Just tied her head up and she was good. Long two days though! His name is Neo.View attachment 18943View attachment 18944


I am so happy for you and the cow. Pretty boy. . Tell her she is a very good girl.


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## Apaulsen2890

Her natural calf was big. Super nice calf! It's head was big. He thinks she didn't know she had to push so much and she wouldn't settle down to do it. She kept walking around.  The vet and my dad even had a hard time getting the head out. The vet suggested we keep her and breed her again though. He said she's got enough pelvic room and that he's seen it happen many times. And since she does throw nice calves it'd be a shame. But we don't know if we'll keep her or send her to be made into hamburger once Neo is weaned.  Better to get something out of a bad situation by getting the little man than nothing at all.  L


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## Apaulsen2890

TAH said:


> I am so happy for you and the cow. Pretty boy. . Tell her she is a very good girl.



She got lots of grain and some treats. We're getting her a watermelon tomorrow.


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## TAH

Apaulsen2890 said:


> She got lots of grain and some treats. We're getting her a watermelon tomorrow.


Good for her. She deserves  it.


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## Mini Horses

The calf is handsome...I am hopeful that the cow will adopt him as they do need each other.  It would be a great thing.  You may want to breed her once more to see if all goes well next time, especially if she does adopt this little guy.  Nurse cows are hard to find and they often settle down some after the experience.   I wish them well!   (OH, and you guys, too!
 Bet that hot shower felt good after being covered in milk and sheet....


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## Apaulsen2890

So far so good with her adopting him.  We tied her head to begin with when we were working on getting him to nurse. By the end, she just gave up and stood still. Even when that little bugger headbutts her like crazy! She's turning out to be a good momma.


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## Apaulsen2890

Oh and when we took the rope off her she just stood there and let him nurse.  Same thing when we gave her grain.  Fingers crossed!


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## BlessedWithGoats

Aww! Congrats! He's a very handsome fella!


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## cjc

Congrats! Glad to hear she accepted him.

What will you do with this calf after? I've never seen a full grown Holstein Steer if that's what you will do with him?


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## Goatgirl47

Great job!  I'm glad she adopted him.


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## Apaulsen2890

Once he's bigger well butcher him. And make him into a nice rug lol he's too pretty not to


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## cjc

Oh man haha, you are stronger than I am! Keep us up to date on his progress and your heifer.

I would love to see this bull calf grown and to see the calf you are going to welcome in the next weeks, or maybe a month


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## Apaulsen2890

I'll let everyone know how he's doing.   I think the other calf will be here very soon.  Can't be too long now.


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## micah wotring

Apaulsen2890 said:


> I think the other calf will be here very soon.  Can't be too long now.


Hopefully


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## cjc

@Apaulsen2890 my heifer that calved one week ago today just had her bag get tight over the weekend. Just to make it more confusing for you haha. My point is your heifer is probably close. Her calf is nursing like a champ and although her bag wasn't tight and full like our cows are when they calf baby was definitely getting enough, he is basically doing back flips in the field haha.


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## Apaulsen2890

My heifer already nursed.  Waiting on the cow now. She's enormous.


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## Apaulsen2890

By nursed I meant calved lol


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## cjc

Oh sorry my mistake! I thought it was the other way around.

Wow yes, she will be any day now! I really thought she would have been first. But just goes to show how tricky heifers can be.


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## Apaulsen2890

Yeah I thought so too! Heifer never got as sloppy as the cow is now!


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## Apaulsen2890

Cjc - did your heifer get a bigger bag after a week?? Ours still has a small bag. I think he's draining her dry.  He keeps going back for more then gives up. Still trying to suck on fingers though at times.  He is starting to eat hay though


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## Apaulsen2890

I feel so bad for her... She's enormous!!!!  And her junk looks a lot messier.  Thoughts??


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## WildRoseBeef

She can calve any time now. And congrats on the new addition with the heifer! 

Try putting a bottle to the heifer's calf to see if he's interested.


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## Apaulsen2890

The calf with the heifer was originally bottle fed.  Her calf died. But he got him on her the next day.


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## WildRoseBeef

Oh! That's right, I forgot, thanks for the reminder. But, are you still considering bottle-feeding him in addition to him suckling on the heifer?


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## cjc

Our heifers bag did fill more after her calf startied nursing. Calf was born Monday and it filled more over the weekend. But, it's not nearly as big and tight as our more mature girls are. She may just not have as big of a bag because it's her first and she's not as mature. Our heifers bag looks half the size, maybe less, than your cows 

The fact that your calf was a bottle calf may have something to do with it. Bottle calves go hard and fast on the bottle. They will suck your fingers after because their natural instincts think they need to suckle longer. A calf on a cow will Nurse for 20-30 minutes at times where a bottle calf will suck the bottle back in 5 minutes. They are just suckling as its like a reflex, they arent as hungry as they seem. My point is he may not be hungry at all, he could just have that ravenous bottle calf nature. 

Do you think you could milk her? Milk her out and see what you get. This is where a squeeze would be your best friend. 

I would be careful about offering the bottle with milk replacement. You don't want to over feed him. My bottle calves would drink a bottle all day if I let them. 

He probably isn't eating hay yet...I think you mentioned he was a week old. He may be putting some in his mouth but he probably isn't eating much if any. It's best to  start offering calf starter (grain) to him now. When he tries to suck your finger put a handful of grain in his mouth. Just push it right into his mouth. Provide grain, water (low enough he can drink) and good quality hay (like alfalfa). 

Your cow looks like she's ready to pop! It's any day now. Give her lots of grain now, help her make that milk with the grain. Make sure you see her calf nurse when it arrives, her teats are very big. Her calf could have a hard time suckling them depending on the calf. It happens and usually once they have been milked out it resolves but those first few days are important so make sure you know the calf has eaten. A high energy calf, bucking and running is a good sign it's eaten.


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## cjc

I should also mention I had a completely dry cow last month. Huge udder and no milk. I would get to trying to milk her soon. Or perhaps consider bottle feeding the calf for a day and see if her bag fills.


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## Apaulsen2890

I don't think we need to really supplement him yet.  He looks like he's put on weight since he came.  She definitely has milk cus we squirted it all over his face trying to get him to realize he was supposed to suck on her lol they're still in the stall until we can band him so no big deal.  She's much more friendly now.  He's almost two weeks old now.  Well get him starter soon.  
Yeah I can't believe how big she is now!!! Ugh... It's killing me waiting!  Should you milk a cow before it calves?!?


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## WildRoseBeef

All you're going to be getting from her is colostrum, and no you don't really need to milk her out before calving, so no reason why you should, even when she looks so full like she is. JMHO.

The calf can be put on calf starter now (or soon), it's not too late to do so.


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## Apaulsen2890

But won't her calf need the colostrum? 
Well get home something soon


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## WildRoseBeef

Yes, but you'd hope that you won't need to milk her out to feed the calf anyway, and the calf can get up and suckle from her soon after birth. The only thing I worry about with milking her out now is if she'll have enough milk when the calf is born. I've never heard nor known of anyone milking out a cow prior to her giving birth, and though I've no doubt it wouldn't hurt if you got some out of her (like take half of what she has now), personally I'd just be leery of it. But, it wouldn't hurt to have some colostrum on hand in the freezer just in case. 

Fingers crossed things will go smoothly with your cow!


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## Apaulsen2890

Yeah I think I'll let her go unless the new cal seems to have an issue nursing. I think it'll be ok  this cow has already calved in the past so it shouldn't be as bad as the heifer


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## cjc

Sorry I don't think I explained what I was saying properly.

Milk your heifer if you are worried about the calf not getting enough. See how much you get and confirm she has milk. But since you say you already did then no need.

I mentioned that your cow has large teats, I only bring it up because I just had a calf have a problem with a similar looking teat, but I've also had calves not have a problem. If for any reason your cow had a hard time nursing her calf you could milk her out. But like you said, yes her new calf need the colostrum, do not milk her out unless there was an issue, save that for baby.

***patiently waiting on your new calf pictures  **


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## Apaulsen2890

The calf was nursing this morning and appeared to be getting more.  I think part of it is he just wants to eat constantly instead of until he's full like a bottle baby will.  Hopefully when i get home today there will be a calf!


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## Apaulsen2890

The wait is over!!! Ladies and gentlemen I present to you Morpheus! (Like the matrix. Goes with Neo lol. I blame my fiancé for their names.) He was laying down in the pasture with mom and dad when we got home today. Seems healthy and happy. He definitely nursed as her bag and teats are all smaller.  You can even tell which two he sucked on! Haha! He's a cutie. 
And now for my next question... My heifer has some blood in her urine and/or stool.  Hard to tell in the stall when she's smashed it all around. I think urine though because there was some excess on her tail at about that height.  So, now what? Keep an eye on her? I really don't want to pay another $200 vet bill... I thought maybe it was from how much the calf has been headbutting her.  Or lepto? She seems healthy otherwise except a bit of a overly wet nose. Thoughts?


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## cjc

Wow congrats!!! He is adorable! He's a good size calf too, looks exactly like his dam. Don't forget to dip his navel in iodine. Glad to hear he is nursing that's a real struggle when that doesn't go as planned!

The birthing process is not a mild one. I would assume the blood is from that and I think it would be hard to tell at this point where it was really coming from. Blood and such will come out of her for the 24 hours or so as she passes the after birth (if she hasn't already). It's normal to see bloody bits on their back end at this point. If it were me I would give it a good 48 hours before worrying about blood, unless other signs came forth.

Congrats again! He's a beauty!


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## Apaulsen2890

The heifer is the one with blood. She calved a week ago tomorrow.  Not the one who just calved.


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## cjc

Oh sorry I don't know why I keep mixing that up!

Yes, then personally I would be concerned. I have never had a stillborn calf so I am not sure if that's normal. If I were you I would ring the vet and ask the question.

If you don't get your answers on here and you don't want to ring the vet I would personally post on CattleToday.com. Lots of really experienced guys on there that may have some good knowledge for you on the subject.


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## Apaulsen2890

Hmmm I'll call the vet here in a bit.  Hopefully I don't get charged for calling... Lol


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## TAH

Congrats. He is uper cute.


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## Apaulsen2890

Thanks TAH!!! He's a dear!  I ventured out into the pasture to pet him. Didn't get much but at least some friendly contact 
Called the vet about the heifer. She thinks it's a uterine infection from pulling her calf last week.  Two doses of la200 and she should be good to go!


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## WildRoseBeef

Do you know if the heifer passed her placenta yet?

ETA: Congratulations on the new addition! The little one certainly is a cutie, and well named too lol.


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## BlessedWithGoats

Congratulations on the new calf!


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## Apaulsen2890

I believe she did by the next day.  There was a pile in the stall that we took out that I'm betting was it. And the vet had given her a shot to help her clean.


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## micah wotring

Woohooo!!!!
So glad everything went fine on the second one!!!


We just got a calf yesterday!!
They are so cute!

Congratulations!!!


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## Apaulsen2890

micah wotring said:


> Woohooo!!!!
> So glad everything went fine on the second one!!!
> 
> 
> We just got a calf yesterday!!
> They are so cute!
> 
> Congratulations!!!



Did you buy the calf or was it born at your place? What kind? Picture!


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## TAH

post: 433531, member: 14825"]We just got a calf yesterday!![/QUOTE]
Congrats. x2 with @Apaulsen2890


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## micah wotring

The mom was a jersey/Holstein and the bull was angus.

http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/cow-down-due-to-calve-yesterday.33869/
It's actually my sisters cow.

I'll try to post some pics soon.


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## TAH

micah wotring said:


> The mom was a jersey/Holstein and the bull was angus.


ok


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## cjc

@Apaulsen2890 how is the herd doing? Both calves and dam's are good?


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## Apaulsen2890

The newest baby is good. The heifer isn't letting the holstein calf nurse outside... We have to put her in a small corner of the pasture and give her feed so she stands still long enough for him to nurse.  She was fine until the other cow saw he's not the same... Ugh.... If it's not one thing its another!  We got a bottle and milk replacer, but we're holding off as long as possible and still trying to get her to let him nurse.  He nurses twice a day with this way but it's super frustrating and too much work for us to do every day. I have a feeling it'll be bottle feeding only soon.... So I don't know if we'll keep him then or not.  It's been a rough few days....


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## cjc

Awe sorry to hear that I did have a feeling that may happen. Heifers can be stubborn like that. If it were me I would take him away from the heifer and bottle feed it. It will be more costly of course but it will be easier to manage. It's not the best way to do things but this year our cow that was being a bad mom (she's done it once before) we didn't give many chances. We took the calf away and I have been bottle feeding it since it was 4 days old.


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## Apaulsen2890

Yeah I really didn't want to have to do it.... She was doing sooo well in the stall!   I think she'll be heading to the butcher come fall since she's being a total ****.... We will still let him out in the pasture because you can walk right up to him.  Sometimes he even comes running over just to be petted.   The cow you had do it before.... was she ever a good mom? Or just bad with certain calves?


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## cjc

She was a good mom in the fact that she came running when it called for her and she was very protective but her calf last year died and this year it was looking malnourished in the field. She had a huge udder and I later found out she had basically no milk. So to answer your question she was never a good mother but it was her body that let her down not her nurture. We gave her another chance this year as although her calf died last year it was a good looking calf but this year she failed us again. Even though shes given us nice calves it would be irresponsible for me to breed her again, both her calves were sick. So...she's now in the freezer...


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## Apaulsen2890

Yeah this one comes running to him if he calls and will call to him even.... But yet doesn't want to let him nurse.  I just don't get it.  I know she has milk.  No idea how much because I don't want him to not get what he needs.  I'm not sure after this if we should even give her another chance... Only problem is then we only have one cow to breed.... Her first calf was beautiful... It's really a shame it didn't make it.  It was a big beautiful girl....  So, no idea what we will do with her or the calf.


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## cjc

I was in the same position last year, if that cow left I wouldn't of had enough to breed. Maybe give her another chance. I am not sure what the odds are of the same thing repeating itself I've never had that particular problem. Maybe ask around and see if the chances of her having another stillborn is and go from there.

Maybe leave the calf as he is, let him nurse when he can and supplement his feed. Feed him 2x a day with the bottle...he's big enough now to handle that.


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## Apaulsen2890

The vet who pulled her stillborn said he wouldn't be afraid to breed her again.  My concern is her not even accepting her own calf though since she's being a terd now. Thoughts on that?  
I think we will have to feed him with the bottle. He's used to being fed twice a day.  Any idea how long it'll take him to suck down a bottle? We've never had to feed before... I'm trying to figure out how much earlier I need to get up haha!


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## cjc

He will suck down a bottle in 5 minutes. I would allow yourself 15-20 minutes for feeding though. Touch him lots when you are feeding him, keeps them friendly. I always rub their heads so they aren't head shy. We will use a bottle holder often with our bigger ones and just touch them when they are drinking.

Once he is done the bottle as I am sure you have discovered he will start coming at you and sorry for the term with "crack head eyes". Like you just took away their precious. When he does it start putting calf starter (grain) into his mouth. Just shove it in. Let him suck it off your fingers. That will get him off you and will get grain into him. By the time he is 2 months old you can just start shoving his head into a bucket of grain when he starts coming at you with those eyes.

I think the reason she is being this way, in my opinion, is because it's not her calf. I wouldn't be worried about her rejecting her own calf. I have heard it can be quiet shocking for a cow to all the sudden be a mother. Like WOW WHAT THE HELL JUST FELL OUT OF ME! If she does well then you get a bottle calf. I have 4 right now and let me tell you its not a bad thing haha. They are adorable.


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## Apaulsen2890

Oh wow!  I didn't think it'd be quite that fast! I figured at least 10 to 15 minutes.  I do go out and rub him at least 20 minutes a day now.  He loves to be scratched behind his ears and sticks his head out like "oh yeah that's the spot"  Super adorable!  I'm sure he'll get that look! He may have it the first time we go out with a bottle since he's already had them in the past.  We're having trouble finding actual calf starter grain though.  Can he eat regular grain?? 
Hopefully that's her only ordeal and that she'll be better the next time around if we go that route...
On another note... I'm pretty sure he's going to end up with horns... I was petting him the second day on his head and there's definitely little nubs where horns would grow!!!  Since he won't be around more than a year I'm not sure it's worth getting them removed.
On a slightly funny note.... My future father in law came over yesterday and was mortified when we said that this calf will be in the freezer in a little over a year. The look on his face was priceless!  And it got even better when I said I want to get his hide tanned for a rug.  I thought he was going to hurl!  Best thing is that they'll probably be moving into our old house when we build a new one next year, so I told him I'll have to put it away when they come over. hehe I'm so mean to him!  Poor city boy... Thank goodness my fiance's mom was a country girl!


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## Mini Horses

You can teach him to drink his milk from a bucket.   And it is then easy to start grain.  

More often than not, the female is not happy to take a babe not theirs.   I was pleasantly surprised when she let this calf nurse.  When a breeder does have a "nurse mom" they are often kept for that reason alone!!   Sometimes a babe will come to nurse and bring a friend cool who decides to also nurse.   Generally as soon as the mom realizes one isn't hers, it's booted away.  

Will she let him nurse ONLY If confined or tied?  If she will allow him to nurse otherwise, I'd just not put her back out with the others in the herd until the calf is a couple months, if possible.


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## Apaulsen2890

Hmmmm..... We may have to just let him drink from the bucket.  He has drank water out of a bucket before.  That would make starting grain super easy.  My only concern would be that the other cows would try to get into it if we didn't pay super close attention.  I was happy she was letting him nurse and had high hopes for her... Very disappointing she isn't letting him now.  
And yes, we have to get them both down the "fence path" from the cow part of the pasture to over by the barn.  It's a 10 foot wide section that leads to by the barn where their feed pan is.  We then give her feed and have to have a whip out there to "push" her back up to the feed sometimes.  Not hitting her though.  The space is just too wide for us to cover it all with just our bodies cus it opens up a little bit by the feed pan.  We reallllllyyy don't want to put them back in the barn... The stalls are only maybe 10x10 and we have to use them for the horses when the farrier comes.  And we only have 2 stalls and 2 horses.  lol  Plus, it's a pain to keep clean especially when my fiance is working and I'm taking classes for grad school right now.


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## cjc

Haha, you are a farmer's daughter that's for sure. When the cows "get sent away" it's done when I am usually on vacation. I don't even eat beef anymore haha. I'm the worst cattle raiser of all time!

You know I don't really know the difference between calf starter and normal cow grain. @WildRoseBeef can you feed a calf regular cow grain? What's the difference.


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## Apaulsen2890

I don't really eat beef either.  I much prefer venison. 
I hope to learn the difference between the two feeds if there is one!


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## WildRoseBeef

@cjc  and @Apaulsen2890,

Calf starter is basically a combination of feed pellets and whole or steam-flaked (sometimes rolled) corn and oats combined with vitamins A, D, and E, trace minerals (sometimes, depends on the company and mill), and a little molasses and salt for palatability. They'll also add other by-products like soybean meal, cotton-seed meal, etc. to increase protein levels. Basically the starter is a "complete" partial ration for calves with all the nutrients that the calf needs for growth. You can get calf starter that is medicated or not. Medicated is simply adding a coccidiostat to prevent coccidiosis in calves. 

Creep feed is sorta like calf starter, except with more grains and less feed pellets. You can add all sorts of things in there, like beet pulp, barley, oats, etc.

"Normal cow grain", on the other hand, is basically just whatever cracked, rolled, steam-flaked, or even whole (but not recommended) grain fed to cattle as part of a bigger ration involving silage, hay, grass, whatever. It is often barley, corn, or oats. Wheat is never fed because it's one of the highest quality grains in protein and has a much bigger potential to cause issues with rumen function. Grains need to be processed first for cattle, not whole like for calves, because calves over 6 or 7 months old and older animals tend to wolf down their grains and not chew. Calves younger than that will often chew their feed before swallowing. It's all to do with rumen function and how they finally figure out that hey, they don't need to chew down stuff anymore they can just eat quick and go on to the next tasty feed. Or something to that effect.


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## Apaulsen2890

Ok so me having no mental functioning after  grad school... I'm going to ask a maybe dumb question.  So the calves can eat adult food? Or can't?


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## WildRoseBeef

Calves can certainly eat adult food. They still need their milk though. Calves get on the calf starter as young as a day or two old, but are not really as reliant on it as milk for for the first few weeks. They are going to sniff and test and eat a little at first, then a little more and so on until they are readily eating it as part of their ration. 

The starter just has enough of the nutrients a calf would need to get started in addition to the milk it gets, and is only suitable for calves that are not on their mothers' milk nor eating or testing what she's eating. Calves start testing things out and eating what their mothers eat at a young age, but that's harder for a bottle calf to do. That's why the feed needs to be in front of them from almost day one so they start to get to know what it is and what it tastes like. Hay is introduced early on too; in dairies where calves are held in hutches it's harder to get them introduced to hay as early as a few weeks old, but you can get him introduced to it at this age too. He won't eat much of it at first, but at least he's getting to know what it is so that when he is ready to go on full feed, he's not at the point where he doesn't know what it is and is too shy to try it at first.


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## Apaulsen2890

Oh good to know!  The Holstein is curious about the feed the others eat.  The Hereford isn't quite as interested but he sniffed around it yesterday and stuck his tongue in it.  Both have been exposed to hay. The Holstein has eaten some of it or tried.  
So we tried last night to get the heifer to let the Holstein to nurse again. She stood really well even after she had finished her feed! But earlier in the day my fiancé said he had a heck of a time with her....   She went and laid down next to the calf last night after sniffing him.  So we don't know what to think.  He's still super active so he must be getting some milk when we're not around id imagine but who knows... We're going to keep doing what we're doing and see what happens.


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## WyndSyrin

from my limited experience with Heifers, I have discovered that if she is sunken in around the head of her tail then she is very close to having her calf.


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## Goatgirl47

WyndSyrin said:


> from my limited experience with Heifers, I have discovered that if she is sunken in around the head of her tail then she is very close to having her calf.



This thread is a year old.


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