# First abcess--could it be CL?



## kayzee (Nov 27, 2012)

I have a wether with a lump on the side of his jaw.  Based on the location and the fact that it's not hurting him, my guess is that it's a salivary cyst, but if it's an abcess my understanding is that it's usually CL.  I don't really have an area where I can keep him 100% quarantined, and right now I just have two wethers at home while our doe is being bred, so if I separate them they're going to scream the neighborhood down.

If I try to drain it with a needle, like for a salivary cyst, do I risk it opening up and infecting my yard with the CL bacteria?


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## elevan (Nov 27, 2012)

Call the vet and have it tested if you suspect CL.



			
				kayzee said:
			
		

> If I try to drain it with a needle, like for a salivary cyst, *do I risk it opening up and infecting my yard with the CL bacteria?*


Yes, that is a definite risk you would be taking.


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## kayzee (Nov 27, 2012)

I am in the frustrating position of not having a "goat vet".  There is an animal emergency room in a neighboring town where they will see them for some things, but I don't have a regular vet who "does goats" or does blood tests for goat-related illness.  I had to send off a blood sample to a lab several states away to rule out CAE so I could get my doe tested before I took her to be bred.

The lump is soft, about the size of a nickel, and no hair is missing.  If I actually thought it were CAE I would have him culled....he is a nice boy but extremely destructive, and I certainly don't want to risk him infecting the little area that I've got.


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## kayzee (Nov 27, 2012)

Ok, after calming down a bit I realized that the herd he came from is CL negative, he's had no contact with outside goats, and there have been no abcesses on any animal here ever, much less in the time he's been here.  I think I might be safe keeping an eye on it and searching for a lab I can send a blood test to.


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## Marianne (Nov 27, 2012)

Goats have absesses for lots of reasons.  Take a deep breath, it will most likely be something else other than CL.  But, do not take a chance.  Find a way to have it tested!  Meanwhile, keep all of the bacteria in the goat -- do not poke and puncture.  Might consider confining the goat in a separate place, if possible.  If the absess does rupture and the exudate gets in the confinement pen, there are ways to clean it up and feel safe before any of your other goats come in contact.   You can remove some soil in very goaty places; then spray the pen with TriSodium Phosphate and again several days later with bleach.  Good Luck!


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## elevan (Nov 28, 2012)

Here's some additional information for you.


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## kayzee (Nov 28, 2012)

So, I see that I can only get an accurate test by collecting the exudate....but if it is CL and I open it up, I've already spread the infection.

It tripled in size overnight, but it's still soft and I can press hard on it with no reaction--he doesn't feel it at all.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Nov 28, 2012)

*I had a goat with an abscess. I was freaking out, washing and quarantining everything. It never "popped" open on it's own. I eventually had to find a vet (nearest one is an hour away) and drove her there to have it collected (via needle & syringe) and sent off to the lab for testing. Came back as negative for CL, but was actually an aerobic bacteria probably caused by a foxtail or something... boy was I relieved! Point being... you never know until you have it tested! *


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## kayzee (Nov 29, 2012)

So I took the chance and tried to pull some fluid out with a needle, and got nothing.  So I bandaged him up and put him back in the pen.  This morning, nothing on the bandage, but there is white pus coming out of his mouth....so I guess he popped it with his teeth from the inside.


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## babsbag (Nov 29, 2012)

kayzee said:
			
		

> So, I see that I can only get an accurate test by collecting the exudate....but if it is CL and I open it up, I've already spread the infection.
> 
> It tripled in size overnight, but it's still soft and I can press hard on it with no reaction--he doesn't feel it at all.


The procedure is done in a place where it is not dirt floor or ground and away from your pens or pasture; or do it on a tarp that can be thrown away. The abcess is usually opened up and cleaned out entirely and sometimes packed with an antibiotic. The goat is then kept away from the herd until it heals.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Nov 29, 2012)

If dealing with CL what you do is you move the goat away from where all animals are and a place where other animals do not go. You put them on a stand. Be sure that you have a tarp or plastic below to throw away. CL bacteria can live 3 years in soil. Use a razor blade and cut one cut, from the top of the lump to the bottom. Wear gloves and squeeze all the puss out. Stick your fingers into it and get it ALL out. Then use a large syringe and squirt water several times into it to further clean it out. Once it is all out and rinsed with the water, put 10 or so cc's of alcohol into it. Leave it for 5-10 minutes. It takes some time for alcohol to do it's thing. Then spray 10 or so cc's of iodine into it. By this time it should have all CL puss into a vile for lab testing and anything else should be on the stand (I put the goat's leg in a trash bag to keep all fluids and puss off the stand too) or on the tarp. The goat should have had alcohol in the wound to rid it of disease and iodine to help with the healing process. Be sure there is no puss on the goat and once you are all done, put the goat into a separate area until it heals fully. Could be 7 days, could be a month. You don't know. Also put iodine on and in the wound every day until healed. Once healed it can go back with the herd.


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## kayzee (Nov 29, 2012)

My "herd" is two wethers and a doe who is currently away being bred at another ranch, and my facilities are just what exist in my smallish back yard, but I've got the two boys penned up together and if necessary I will cull them both or send them onto homes that are okay with a CL positive animal.

Since the pus is squeezing out into his mouth, I can collect some for testing without cutting through his cheek, and I'll send off a sample on Monday and hope like the dickens that it's not CL.

Fortunately, he seems to think the pus is very tasty and swallows it all, so at least it's not getting all over the place.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Nov 29, 2012)

kayzee said:
			
		

> My "herd" is two wethers and a doe who is currently away being bred at another ranch, and my facilities are just what exist in my smallish back yard, but I've got the two boys penned up together and if necessary I will cull them both or send them onto homes that are okay with a CL positive animal.
> 
> Since the pus is squeezing out into his mouth, I can collect some for testing without cutting through his cheek, and I'll send off a sample on Monday and hope like the dickens that it's not CL.
> 
> Fortunately, he seems to think the pus is very tasty and swallows it all, so at least it's not getting all over the place.


Got ya. You don't have the room for all that. Culling may not be a bad idea but CL+ really isn't a big deal. What kind of goats do you have? Sorry if you already said.

CL can go internal if if it does the goat MUST be culled. I'm not completely sure how it goes internal (nor is anyone I believe) but I would think that eating that much of it could be really bad for him. That is if it even is CL which we don't know yet. Only way to tell is to test it. That's good you are having him tested.

This should help to see if it is even CL even before you send the test in. What does the puss look like? What's it's texture? Color?
If it is thick, sticky, greenish to yellowish, then it may be CL. CL is very very sticky, it's very thick and it is mostly yellow or greenish, but not always.


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## BrownSheep (Nov 29, 2012)

Since he popped it in his mouth I wouldn't be surprised if he had a tooth abscess


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeah, I don't think it is CL either. I think it's just some abscess. Goats get abscesses and it's usually not a big deal


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## kayzee (Nov 29, 2012)

The pus is white and fairly thick but not "cheesy" like CL is described--however, it's coming out through his mouth so it is diluted by saliva.  It's also tinged with a little blood.

My goats are Nigerian Dwarfs, which is great for a small space, but I only have the one pen.  I did follow the procedure with gloves and a tarp and iodine, etc, when I tried to draw the fluid out with a syringe.


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## Straw Hat Kikos (Nov 29, 2012)

kayzee said:
			
		

> The pus is white and fairly thick but not "cheesy" like CL is described--however, it's coming out through his mouth so it is diluted by saliva.  It's also tinged with a little blood.
> 
> My goats are Nigerian Dwarfs, which is great for a small space, but I only have the one pen.  I did follow the procedure with gloves and a tarp and iodine, etc, when I tried to draw the fluid out with a syringe.


Well there shouldn't be blood unless that's from chewing on the inside of his mouth. That's kinda weird.

You couldn't get CL puss out with a syringe. It's way to thick. I'm not sure this is CL. We'll see here soon. I hope it's not.


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## kayzee (Dec 1, 2012)

He's healing up beautifully....so beautifully that I'm concerned there won't be anything left to test come Monday when I can send it off.  Does anybody know how long the pus stays viable for testing under refrigeration?  I don't know that I'll be able to get anything out through his mouth even now, which leaves me cutting into his cheek, and it's in a place that's impossible to keep a bandage on.

I feel pretty confident that it isn't CL--once it popped, the whole thing just drained away, not in many separate chambers like CL is.  I'm still not taking any chance.  Poor little guy cries to be let out of the pen (which is actually bigger than a lot I've seen multiple goats kept in) every time we're out there.  He's used to having the run of the yard and playing with the dogs.  He's terrified of me, I'm the mean lady who squeezes his face...

Meanwhile, I've put out an advertisement trying to sell him, but of course I had to be completely honest about what might be wrong with him and I scared everybody away.  I'm sure I'll be able to sell him for meat for the right price, but ideally I'd love to sell him as a pack goat for hiking....unlikely, I know, but he really would be perfect.  Small enough to fit in a not-huge dog kennel for the car, but strong enough to carry, I would guess, around 100 lbs, and he always sticks close to the "leader", whether caprine or human.


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