# new to cattle



## newton the goat (Apr 3, 2017)

so I was given a Holstein bull calf as a gift by a local dairy farmer for my family helping take down one of  his old barns. he will be staying in their barn until it warms up out here a bit. I'm with him every morning and evening to get him to bond with me so when he comes to our home he will be pretty tame (we are hoping) at least to me since I will be with him the most. he is very healthy in every aspect except one.... size. ... he is absolutely tiny, the farmer who owns the barn has even said he's the tiniest calf they have ever had born at that barn and has offered to give us a bigger one but my grandfather has told him it's fine. he eats up to 4 bottles a day with me ( the feed him mid day at times too if he didn't eat well in the morning), which I have been told by the farm hands to feed him, and he will eat everything.... but while he's eating he starts to shake and almost seem like he is vibrating, they have told me it's normal but I've never raised a calf before so I'm not sure how to react.  This is ferdinand, he is a sweet boy but doesn't even make noise yet... at least I haven't heard him over the heifers around him.


 




 can anyone give me any advice on raising this little guy? Part of the reason for his size was he was a twin but the other calf didn't make it...


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## NH homesteader (Apr 3, 2017)

@farmerjan @WildRoseBeef @cjc


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## cjc (Apr 3, 2017)

I was also given a very small calf last year that was a bull calf twin. His brother was about 80lbs he was about 40lbs. Holstein X Angus. He was healthy, just small. He did struggle more than his brother. He scoured when I stepped up his feedings and he also had a harder time staying warm. But now he is a big boy and not much smaller than his twin brother.

It is important to keep this little guy warm, dry and clean. I would also make sure that I prepared him for any illness that would come his way. Most importantly I would make sure this little guy has a pneumonia vaccine/nasal spray. I think its good that you are doing frequent feedings. With my bottle calves I always feed small portions more often for the first month. Most bottle calf raisers will feed 2 times a day where I like to feed 3-4 until they are at least 30 days old. Then at that point if they are doing well I will move them to 2 bigger feedings but with this little guy I would feed him 3 times a day for at least 2 months.

I would get him on grain as soon as he comes to your place. You can get a grain bottle feeder or you can just shove some in his mouth after he is done his bottle. Get him some good quality calf starter. Leave it in his stall with in a bucket. Also leave him hay and water at all times, let him eat grain, hay and drink water free choice.

If he does scour make sure you keep him hydrated. I would have a few packs of electrolytes on hand. If he does get the runs swap out his afternoon feeding for the electrolytes and continue that until the scours clears up.

Personally, I don't like to raise bottle calves on their own. I always make sure they have a buddy. I find they do so much better when they have another one to grow with. They learn faster and they are easier to raise. If I were you I would talk to the farmer about getting another one to raise with this little guy.


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## newton the goat (Apr 3, 2017)

cjc said:


> I was also given a very small calf last year that was a bull calf twin. His brother was about 80lbs he was about 40lbs. Holstein X Angus. He was healthy, just small. He did struggle more than his brother. He scoured when I stepped up his feedings and he also had a harder time staying warm. But now he is a big boy and not much smaller than his twin brother.
> 
> It is important to keep this little guy warm, dry and clean. I would also make sure that I prepared him for any illness that would come his way. Most importantly I would make sure this little guy has a pneumonia vaccine/nasal spray. I think its good that you are doing frequent feedings. With my bottle calves I always feed small portions more often for the first month. Most bottle calf raisers will feed 2 times a day where I like to feed 3-4 until they are at least 30 days old. Then at that point if they are doing well I will move them to 2 bigger feedings but with this little guy I would feed him 3 times a day for at least 2 months.
> 
> ...


At the moment he is still too small to fit in the calf coats they have for newborns, but he is in a pen with two other young heifers that I am feeding when I feed him. they will likely keep him for a month or so more and then I will be moving him into a pen with my sheep and goats, I wish I had more room for a second cow, but we don't have our other pens up yet. Plus our ground is really too soft for more than one...
I am keeping an eye on him and the others to make sure non of then scour, are there any essential grains I need to mix in his feed once he starts eating solid food?

The pen he is in has the bedding regularly changed and the floor under it scrubbed down so there is no chance of infection or sickness, and no one is allowed into the pen without cleaning their boots with incredibly hot water and a cleaning solution, So there should be a very small chance of cross contamination or the spread of disease.

What is a grain bottle? I haven't heard of those before.
And is it bad to keep a cow with sheep and goats? We will have chickens in there too to eat bugs and such.


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## cjc (Apr 3, 2017)

I would get him on grain at one week old. Other than hay and grain (calf starter) that is all he should require.

A grain bottle is essentially a bottle that has a bigger wider nipple that you can put grain in and they can suck the grain back. But since he is being raised for the next month or so like this that will be a tough one to use. I just attach one to the fence so they can free feed.

I would just hand feed him grain after each feeding. When they stop feeding I am sure you have noticed they desire to suckle more. Pick up some grain in your hands and let him suck the grain off your fingers. Do that until he starts turning away from the grain. The first time you do it he may just spit it out or not want much. You may actually have to force it in a bit at first. After a few times he will start to realize he likes and will start chomping away at it.

I don't know if its bad to keep cows with sheep or goats. I don't know much about either. I did raise one bottle calf I had with a horse. It was fine and he liked the company. Now that calf is a cow that has a strange obsession with horses  He just loves them. So you may just have a sheep/goat loving cow.


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## newton the goat (Apr 3, 2017)

cjc said:


> I would get him on grain at one week old. Other than hay and grain (calf starter) that is all he should require.
> 
> A grain bottle is essentially a bottle that has a bigger wider nipple that you can put grain in and they can suck the grain back. But since he is being raised for the next month or so like this that will be a tough one to use. I just attach one to the fence so they can free feed.
> 
> ...



They have grain bins set up in the pen so they can try it, I'll ask one of the farm hands tonight about the feeding thing (I don't doubt what you said to do at all, just wondering if they have ever done it and if they could show me how)

I'm really looking forward to raising this little guy. I would like to either halter train him or collar train him, which one works best or you found most effective? I have people with successful experience in both so I don't know which one to choose.


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## cjc (Apr 3, 2017)

Every farm has their ways and I would trust what the dairy is doing. They raise a lot of calves!

I have personally never tried collar training but I know a lot of dairy cows are. I always halter train the calves I plan to keep. I don't train them super well on them just enough for me to have them stand still and get from point A to point B. Halter training or whatever you decide to use is really valuable when you have a small farm.

I always pat my bottle calves on the head a lot when I feed them. Touch them as much as I can. I find it avoids having a head shy cow. I don't want them to jump back when I go to put my hands on them so always try and warm them up to it when they are little.


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## newton the goat (Apr 3, 2017)

cjc said:


> Every farm has their ways and I would trust what the dairy is doing. They raise a lot of calves!
> 
> I have personally never tried collar training but I know a lot of dairy cows are. I always halter train the calves I plan to keep. I don't train them super well on them just enough for me to have them stand still and get from point A to point B. Halter training or whatever you decide to use is really valuable when you have a small farm.
> 
> I always pat my bottle calves on the head a lot when I feed them. Touch them as much as I can. I find it avoids having a head shy cow. I don't want them to jump back when I go to put my hands on them so always try and warm them up to it when they are little.


I have been offered as of today a calf that was not born 3 hours ago, he is one and a half times the size of the little guy just as a new born, the farmer even had me even give him his first feeding and teach him to drink from a bottle. He is absolutely huge... this is him, 

Body wise he is the size of a 21 day old heifer (white, below)


 
Besides the stomach. If you had the choice which one would you pick? I'm torn...


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## Simpleterrier (Apr 3, 2017)

It would all depend on what u are going to do. Are these calves going to be meat?


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## Baymule (Apr 3, 2017)

What is your purpose for this calf? Are you raising him to butcher? A pet? An Ox for draft work? If for slaughter or draft ox, reality wins and I would take the bigger calf. If for a pet, then my heart would win and I'd take the little guy.


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## newton the goat (Apr 3, 2017)

Ya the calf is for meat, I would love to get both.... but .... I'm not even going to bring that up with my father, I know what his answer will be without a doubt. Lol.


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## cjc (Apr 3, 2017)

Ya I would take both . If it's for meat the big guy will be better. His general health is probably going to be better and he will no doubt grow bigger


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## newton the goat (Apr 3, 2017)

cjc said:


> Ya I would take both . If it's for meat the big guy will be better. His general health is probably going to be better and he will no doubt grow bigger


Ya likely though I feel bad for leaving the small guy behind... I'll keep giving him (well all of them) all the care I can.


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## NH homesteader (Apr 3, 2017)

Umm I vote 2 cows are better than one! Come on, you're already getting 10 pigs! They will do way more damage than 2 cows.


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## newton the goat (Apr 3, 2017)

NH homesteader said:


> Umm I vote 2 cows are better than one! Come on, you're already getting 10 pigs! They will do way more damage than 2 cows.


I wish but my dad doesn't even want one, he's taking one of them out of obligation


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## farmerjan (Apr 3, 2017)

The larger one will most likely be the better one for all around health and doing/growing better.  But, there is the argument that you could present to your father that 2 will be happier together, and that you can sell one and help pay back some of what it will cost to raise both.  With holsteins, it will not be a big payback, but still you might see a little bit of a return, so the one you butcher will actually be costing a little less.  It really is 6 of one half a dozen of another as far as which you choose.  Being a smaller twin, he will take a little longer to get full size.  But sometimes they will also put on more weight instead of all bone growth...If he doesn't get as big.
Realize that it will take nearly 2 years to get him to butchering size since the dairy breeds will grow more bone and body before they start to put on meat/muscle.


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## farmerjan (Apr 3, 2017)

Halters make an animal a little easier to handle than a neck collar when they get older, but I have several cows that wear neck chains that I can lead them with.


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## Simpleterrier (Apr 4, 2017)

I would ask the farmer Wich one came from a better cow and pick the opposite. The better the dairy the worse it will beef up. Bigger doesn't mean more beef for the money. It could mean more bones alot of big bones and u can't eat bones


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## newton the goat (Apr 4, 2017)

Simpleterrier said:


> I would ask the farmer Wich one came from a better cow and pick the opposite. The better the dairy the worse it will beef up. Bigger doesn't mean more beef for the money. It could mean more bones alot of big bones and u can't eat bones


Both of them came from.  Equally good cows, my friend who is in the beef part of cattle rearing says to keep an eye on their weight for the next week or two and see how they eat and size up. Is that a good way to do it?


farmerjan said:


> Halters make an animal a little easier to handle than a neck collar when they get older, but I have several cows that wear neck chains that I can lead them with.


Would the way they work with foals work with a cow? (The rope tide losely around the back end and attached to the halter to get the animal used to leading) or does that only work on horses? I've been looking for different ways to teach it, and I am able to borrow a calf halter from my friend for the time being. I will likely be trying both methods to see which one I prefer.


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## cjc (Apr 4, 2017)

newton the goat said:


> Ya likely though I feel bad for leaving the small guy behind... I'll keep giving him (well all of them) all the care I can.



I'd feel bad for leaving the small guy behind too but I am a huge sucker and a terrible farmer haha. Half my herd are pets.

Here is a pic of the twin calves that I have. It's hard to see but the one in the back is the calf that was 40lbs, his twin brother in the front was 80lbs. So you can see the size difference, but, they aren't that far off in size. And the little guy is the sweetest calf, very gentle. These calves are Holstein X Angus.


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## newton the goat (Apr 4, 2017)

cjc said:


> I'd feel bad for leaving the small guy behind too but I am a huge sucker and a terrible farmer haha. Half my herd are pets.
> 
> Here is a pic of the twin calves that I have. It's hard to see but the one in the back is the calf that was 40lbs, his twin brother in the front was 80lbs. So you can see the size difference, but, they aren't that far off in size. And the little guy is the sweetest calf, very gentle. These calves are Holstein X Angus.
> 
> View attachment 30622


I wish I didn't have to but we are only being given one and we have to pick, and it's either one or the other. I need to think about efficiency. The smaller one it will likely take longer to grow and get to a proper weight, and if we had the space, I woukd get both... but I don't so I need to look to the future and be smart about my choice...


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## newton the goat (Apr 4, 2017)

BTW your boys are so cute @cjc


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## luvmypets (Apr 4, 2017)

If I were you (and I have close to no experience with cows) I would get the bigger one. The only reason being Im a sucker for the underdog. I would end up naming it and training it and it would be a whole mess.


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## cjc (Apr 4, 2017)

newton the goat said:


> I wish I didn't have to but we are only being given one and we have to pick, and it's either one or the other. I need to think about efficiency. The smaller one it will likely take longer to grow and get to a proper weight, and if we had the space, I woukd get both... but I don't so I need to look to the future and be smart about my choice...



Makes sense when I buy my calves I always send the buyer with a few things. I want the biggest, solid black one they have. Big calves often are just easier to raise and they usually grow bigger. And for your purpose those things are important.


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