# natural goat wormers and lice question



## mistee (Mar 11, 2011)

first,,, who uses natural dewormers and what do you use? I am milking goats this year and I would like a natural safe dewormer that will be ok when my kids drink the milk..

I also noticed some lice on my goats this morning.. I just wormed them about a week ago w/ ivermectin.. what can i use for the lice? I have does to kid any day now so it has to be safe for the babies.... is there a safe dust or spray? 

thanks...


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## ksalvagno (Mar 11, 2011)

I would do a second and possibly a third dose of Ivomec 10-14 days apart. The only natural thing I know of to use for lice is garlic and that might make the milk taste off.


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## helmstead (Mar 11, 2011)

Sevin dust, CyLence...all will get the lice if the ivermec didn't (but it SHOULD have - are you sure you dosed right?)


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## mistee (Mar 11, 2011)

I dosed right but have never had luck w/ ivermectin getting the lice this time a year..  I was even told by the vet years ago that it would kill the  lice but it didnt.. I plan on deworming again the day after kidding.. I will try the sevin dust...... I seem to get lice this time a year but they only  last a month and then gone, i just hate lice on the babies


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## cmjust0 (Mar 11, 2011)

mistee said:
			
		

> I dosed right but have never had luck w/ ivermectin getting the lice this time a year..  I was even told by the vet years ago that it would kill the  lice but it didnt.. I plan on deworming again the day after kidding.. I will try the sevin dust...... I seem to get lice this time a year but they only  last a month and then gone, i just hate lice on the babies


How are you administering the ivomec?  Orally?  Also, what's the dosage you're using?


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 11, 2011)

I've been using Hoegger's Herbal DeWormer since that is what came with my goats and DE internally. I plan to eventually switch to Fir Meadows herbal wormer. So far it seems to be working well. I haven't run fecals, but most of them are pretty healthy on the FAMACHA chart.

For lice I would use DE as a dusting, and then again 2 weeks? (when eggs hatch) later.


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## mistee (Mar 11, 2011)

i am giving the ivomec 1cc per 30 pounds,, what seems to work best here.. I have nigerians and 1 fainter.. I will get some DE tomorrow... If the babies are born before I get it will it hurt them? My fainter was due yesterday and she is in barn looking like she could go anytime.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Mar 11, 2011)

I don't know about the ivomec, I know nothing about it. But the DE is a totally natural product. Basically is is the fossils of tiny little sea creatures that has been dried and then ground up really fine. The only thing you need to be careful about is breathing it in. DO NOT buy pool DE is that is a different product and is harmful.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

mistee said:
			
		

> i am giving the ivomec 1cc per 30 pounds,, what seems to work best here.. I have nigerians and 1 fainter.. I will get some DE tomorrow... If the babies are born before I get it will it hurt them? My fainter was due yesterday and she is in barn looking like she could go anytime.


Where you have kids due any moment, get PYthon livestock insecticide Dust. It is the only one that is completely safe to use on newborn kids and lactating animals. It has no withdrawl time.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 11, 2011)

The link the mod shared on the other thread to the Python label says it's hazardous to humans and animals... wash skin immediately, etc.  I'm assuming this means you wouldn't want to ingest it, so even if it has no withdrawal time what's to prevent the dust from drifting into your milk?  Also, you'd be getting it on your skin and clothes when handling them... doesn't it seem safer to give the ivomec injectable?

Also, I am SO not trying to start a fight here and get this thread closed as well so let's not get crazy with the winking this time.   I haven't dealt with mites before so I'm just curious.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> The link the mod shared on the other thread to the Python label says it's hazardous to humans and animals... wash skin immediately, etc.  I'm assuming this means you wouldn't want to ingest it, so even if it has no withdrawal time what's to prevent the dust from drifting into your milk?  Also, you'd be getting it on your skin and clothes when handling them... doesn't it seem safer to give the ivomec injectable?
> 
> Also, I am SO not trying to start a fight here and get this thread closed as well so let's not get crazy with the winking this time.   I haven't dealt with mites before so I'm just curious.


I too am not trying to fight here, and don't want to get this thread closed.  

I will first address your question on the hazardous part. The warning actually reads like this:
_Precautionary Statements
Hazards To Humans And Domestic(underlining done by me) Animals. 
CAUTION
Harmful if absorbed through the skin. Avoid contact with eyes, skin or clothing. Wash thoroughly with soap and water after handling. Keep out of reach of children._

Found here:

Labeled for use on lactating and non-lactating DAIRY CATTLE, BEEF CATTLE, SHEEP, GOATS, and HORSES.
Can be applied to any age of animal.
Environmentally friendly.
Has the EPA's Class IV toxicity rating - the safest rating for pesticides.

My personal homework/advice:
After about 1 week, take a good firm brush and brush out any dead creepy crawlies and residual dust. As an added caution, you can place cheesecloth over the top of your milking bucket.
The dust is applied to the top of their heads, down the ridge of their spine, and at the top of their butt/base of their tail. Not much comes down and onto their teats. Any that might have gotten onto their teats would be washed off when doing the normal teat washing prior to milking. And if babies suckling is a worry, it states that it is safe on all ages of animal, and where babies lick their own coats... they would be ingesting a small amount anyways.
Hope this clarifies things for you.


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## helmstead (Mar 11, 2011)

Since this isn't in the Organic section...

Eprinex is good to use and has no milk withdrawl.  When it comes to real bugs, like lice and mites, I wouldn't play around with DE - but that's me.  And I don't choose to use Sevin, I don't like them getting it in their eyes and inhaling it.

Basically there is no issue with using Ivermec, even standard Ivermec - because by the time the milk is drinkable (say, if you were freshening a doe intending to drink the milk, and treated her with ivermec the day she kidded and then had to wait 2 weeks for that colostrum taste to leave the milk) the withdrawl time is well past.


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## Livinwright Farm (Mar 11, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Basically there is no issue with using Ivermec, even standard Ivermec - because by the time the milk is drinkable (say, if you were freshening a doe intending to drink the milk, and treated her with ivermec the day she kidded and then had to wait 2 weeks for that colostrum taste to leave the milk) the withdrawl time is well past.


That is a very good point on the withdrawl time of Ivermec & milking...
My question is, what about the babies drinking the milk up to that point? would it be safe for them, or would you have to go straight to bottle feeding kids from day 1?


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## helmstead (Mar 11, 2011)

Perfectly safe for the babies.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Mar 12, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> n.smithurmond said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah, I didn't include the word domestic.  I consider most of my goats to be domestic.  Maybe not all of them... but most of them.


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## cmjust0 (Mar 14, 2011)

Livinwright Farm said:
			
		

> Found here:
> 
> Labeled for use on lactating and non-lactating DAIRY CATTLE, BEEF CATTLE, SHEEP, GOATS, and HORSES.


Also found at that link:

"Controls horn flies, lice, ticks, and keds. Aids in control of face flies and other nuisance flies."

No mention of mites, goat or otherwise.  Just sayin'.  Not gonna throw in a wink, though I'm really feeling the urge..


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## mossyStone (Mar 14, 2011)

I have been useing DE on my Fiber goats for 8 yrs, they have never had lice or mites.
 I use it before and after shearing, i hang a bag in the summer for them to walk under, seems to work well for them. I just started useing for the Nubains, they have had mites this winter.. 
 I also mix it in the goat, dog , cat chicken, Turkey and Ducks feed and sprinkle in their houses and nest box area.. with no ill affects.

The 50 lb bag last me yrs and yrs


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## cmjust0 (Mar 14, 2011)

mossyStone said:
			
		

> I have been useing DE on my Fiber goats for 8 yrs, they have never had lice or mites.
> I use it before and after shearing, i hang a bag in the summer for them to walk under, seems to work well for them. I just started useing for the Nubains, they have had mites this winter..
> I also mix it in the goat, dog , cat chicken, Turkey and Ducks feed and sprinkle in their houses and nest box area.. with no ill affects.
> 
> The 50 lb bag last me yrs and yrs


I didn't use anything on my goats for a long, long time and never had any problem with lice or mites...until I bought in a few goats that had lice and bought hay from another goatkeeper who had mites in his herd..

Then I had to deal with lice on a few, and mites on one or two..

Point being, if you've never had problems with external parasites, they won't just spring up out of nowhere whether you hang a bag of DE or not..  I'd be interested to see how well the DE would hold up if you were ever infiltrated with either, though..

Can pretty much gaurantee, btw, that DE isn't going to do anything against mites unless you can find a way to get it *into* a goat's skin where the mites live..


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## mossyStone (Mar 15, 2011)

My Nubians were hit with mites this yr my prgoras on the  DE program not a one..... Now i am useing DE on them as well...... And they have done nicely......

I also had fecals ran on the Pygoras since they have always had just DE and natural wormer No worms.....



It's nice that we all can use what we want and share that, if it works for you good if not do what you need to do.....


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## cmjust0 (Mar 15, 2011)

mossyStone said:
			
		

> My Nubians were hit with mites this yr my prgoras on the  DE program not a one..... Now i am useing DE on them as well...... And they have done nicely......
> 
> I also had fecals ran on the Pygoras since they have always had just DE and natural wormer No worms.....
> 
> It's nice that we all can use what we want and share that, if it works for you good if not do what you need to do.....


Just out of curiosity, what symptoms were your goats showing with mites?


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## mistee (Mar 16, 2011)

well i was finally able to get python dust,, no stores here had it so I had to order... I just dusted everyone and bedding so i hope it works and was safe on my little ones..


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## cmjust0 (Mar 16, 2011)

mistee said:
			
		

> well i was finally able to get python dust,, no stores here had it so I had to order... I just dusted everyone and bedding so i hope it works and was safe on my little ones..


I've dusted lousy day-olds before.  They'll be fine.


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## Lady Jane (Mar 16, 2011)

Since the "other thread" has been mentioned. I just wanted to let you know how it turned out. I used ivomec (first time injecting so hopefully I did it right). I have been keeping an eye on her but since I just did it Sat. night it's hard to tell if it has been entirely effective. She has the medicine now though.  

Now to answer the original questions.
I use Hoeggers herbal dewormer. I have not done a fecal yet, but their eyes look good and everyone appears healthy. I have only been using it for about a month and a half now.


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## mistee (Mar 16, 2011)

the lice just really irk me,,,lol... I dont take my goats anywhere and the barn is kept clean but every year at this time i get an out break and this time was overly bad....grrrrrr.....  You know it figures the only time I have people  out to look at babies to buy is when you have problems w/ them,,lol.


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## peachick (Mar 17, 2011)

what symptoms are there with  lice??

I see nothing crawling on my guys,  but  I do see them scratching themselves using their horns....  my buck Chip has worn a thin spot on both sides of his ribs.  And yesterday  I brushed out Elvira and I thought she had dandruff,  but  now Im wondering if it was eggs??


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