# Too late to start cocci prevention?



## daisychick (Nov 3, 2011)

I have two, 5 month old nubian doelings.  As far as I know they have never been given cocci prevention.  I have had them a month.  They are in great health.  They are fed grass/alfalfa hay and that is it.  I am wanting to start them on some grain.   Should I start them on a medicated feed at this age or a non-medicated feed??  I plan on breeding them when they are big enough and then milking them.  I have read the feeding practices thread tons of times, but I am still not sure what to start them on since I didn't get them as weanlings.   Is it a good idea to start them on a medicated feed like Noble Goat at this age and then when they are in milk switch them to the non-medicated???  OR  feed them non-medicated and just do a cocci prevention treatment with medication in the Spring??  Any ideas welcomed


----------



## that's*satyrical (Nov 3, 2011)

I don't know the answer but I am interested as well. Got a 5 month old ND doe about a month ago. I have been giving her the noble goat & did the 1st five day cocci treatment about 2 weeks ago.  She was previously un-vaccinated & only given herbal wormer so I also gave her the 1st ever CD&T about 2 weeks ago. She seems to be doing well so far. I guess depending on your answer I'll know whether or not to try and give the 2nd cocci treatment in a week.


----------



## elevan (Nov 3, 2011)

It's never too late to start cocci prevention  if you want to do it.

Medicated feed is just one tool in your toolbox.  It would be fine to start them on the medicated feed and switch it when they're milking (as humans can't drink the milk if they're on medicated feed).  Also make sure that your horses cannot get into the medicated feed as it could kill them.

Medicated feed will not prevent cocci per se...it'll mainly slow it down, but it will help in the fight.

If you wish to do a preventative dosing of Albon, Di-Methox or the like then that is an option for you as well.  More info here:  http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-coccidia-goat


----------



## daisychick (Nov 3, 2011)

Is there a lot of cocci in the Winter?   We have already had 2 snows and a lot of frost days.


----------



## elevan (Nov 3, 2011)

daisychick said:
			
		

> Is there a lot of cocci in the Winter?   We have already had 2 snows and a lot of frost days.


It really depends on what winter is like for your area.  If it freezes solid for an extended period of time then you're not as likely to have an issue...but freak things can and do happen.  Cocci is mostly a spring-early summer issue but it can happen at other times as well.


----------



## daisychick (Nov 3, 2011)

Well freaky weather is what Colorado is famous for.    So we get long periods of freezing temps and then 80 degree days....so that tells me I should start the prevention stuff now instead of waiting until Spring.   Thanks for the info, Elevan!


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 3, 2011)

I'd be tempted to have a fecal ran to see if cocci's even an issue.  

I don't prev. treat any of my goats once we've had a hard frost, BUT that's also b/c by then they're usually 6-9 mos old and have (hopefully) built up some immunity to cocci / are strong enough to keep the numbers in check.  At 5 mos old, your girls are still susceptible, but probably would have had a problem w/ it by now, if they were going to.
If there haven't been goats on your place, and they came to you relatively free of cocci to begin with, it's possible they're ok.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that they may not *need* medicated if their bodies are already 'doing the job' and keeping cocci numbers in check.  If a fecal shows more than say 200, then yes, by all means do a TREATMENT dose (I usually do those for 7-14 days - depending on whether or not they scoured / had high fecals) of DiMethox, and then a PREVENTION dose (5 days) every 3 wks for at least 2 rounds.

Medicated feed won't "kill" coccidia, it just prevents it from maturing...and then ONLY if the goat eats enough to keep the medication up to therapeutic levels...at 5 mos, your goats are probably old enough to consume that amount (you'd have to read the product label for that info), but you won't be able to just dump the right amount in their pan and expect them to eat it w/out issues....it'll have to be added / increased slowly.  
Point here is:  IF they already had a high oocyst count, giving them the medicated feed won't do a thing to "cure" them...and it won't prevent future outbreaks if they're not eating the therapeutic amount.


----------



## daisychick (Nov 3, 2011)

Ok Rolls, that makes sense.    I would love to not have to treat them now if I don't have to, because they are in excellent health and have had NO problems.   I would almost rather just treat if there was a problem, instead of constantly feeding them a preventative.  I  kept them on the hay that they were on at their old house and I haven't changed anything else for them.   I do want to start them on some grain to help them reach full potential, but if I don't "have to" feed them medicated that would be nice.  I need to talk to my current vet and see about doing a fecal.


----------



## elevan (Nov 3, 2011)

You don't have to do anything that you don't want to do.  Remember that every farm is different.  Some choose to preventatively treat - some choose to give medicated feed - some choose to treat only when needed.  Choice is yours on what your route will be.


----------



## daisychick (Nov 3, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> You don't have to do anything that you don't want to do.  Remember that every farm is different.  Some choose to preventatively treat - some choose to give medicated feed - some choose to treat only when needed.  Choice is yours on what your route will be.


Funny, I always do what I want to do, but I am never good at making decisions when I have too many choices.     Sometimes I am just better off if someone tells me what to do.     Good thing my DH puts up with me.   


I am very very thankful I found BYH!   My area is full of people who show meat goats in 4H, but none of them really know anything about goats or their upkeep.     Our local feed store says most people just buy plain old 4-way sweet feed for their goats.  So all the new stuff I am learning on here is helping me a lot.   I can put in an order for a more suitable grain for my girls and I am sure they will shake their heads at me because I WILL NOT just buy 4-way grain.


----------



## DonnaBelle (Nov 3, 2011)

Yes, I second Roll Farms.

A fecal test will show the number of cocci present and the vet can tell you if treatment is necessary.

That will bring an end to all the hand wringing and wonder iffing.

DonnaBelle


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 3, 2011)

Daisychick, PLEASE don't take this the wrong way....but.... How can you look at your goats and *know* they have no problems?  
That's a trick I'd LOVE to learn.

I have had goats that I thought were doing fine, suddenly scour and go downhill FAST w/ coccidiosis.  They can have what's called a 'subclinical' case, that isn't bad enough to produce scours or make them act sick, but still does damage to the intestinal lining.

I didn't really say, "Don't do anything."    
It sounded like you were asking should you give meds or medicated feed.  What I was trying to say is that IF there's a problem, medicated feed ALONE won't fix it, you'd need to use medicine 1st, then try the medicated feed.

You may be right, they may not have it.  But no more than a fecal float for cocci would cost, it'd be worth the peace of mind (to me) to verify they are healthy.


----------



## daisychick (Nov 3, 2011)

Rolls,  I was just saying that the does have had NO problems so far, meaning no health issues or illness or scours or anything "off"  Of course I have no idea what is in their system, so yes a fecal is the only way to know that.  I certainly can't just look at the goats and *know* if they have problems, I just haven't seen any signs of a problem if that makes sense??  I was just wanting to start them on grain and wasn't sure if I should get medicated or non-medicated at their current age.  "IF" there is a problem after a fecal is ran or they show signs of illness, then of course I would medicate them and not just rely on medicated feed to take care of it.  Hope that makes more sense.    Just trying to learn the difference between "preventative" and "treatment" practices on goats that are in the 5 to 6 month old range.  If I had them as bottle babies or newly weaned I probably would of just started them on medicated feed, but since I didn't have them as wee ones I wasn't sure if it would be good or bad to start it now.


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 3, 2011)

Gotcha.  

I just didn't want you to have a false sense of security and then BAM get hit w/ a sick goat....or two.

Cuz...that's happened to me and it stinks.


----------



## daisychick (Nov 3, 2011)

Thanks Rolls    I actually don't feel any security....LOL!   Goats are not new to me, but taking care of them the "right way" is new to me.    Growing up when we had goats, I am pretty sure my parents just threw them some hay, gave them sweet feed on the milking stand only and NEVER wormed them or did any other medicating of any kind.  We pulled the kids and bottle fed them and if they made it they made it and if not it was "just life" !!!!!     I am the first one in my family to actually do any research on proper care and current topics.   My family and the small town I live in is totally "old school".   I love reading and learning and am glad I have all you guys to help me.


----------



## Roll farms (Nov 4, 2011)

Large scale dairy operations and overcrowded meat goat production have 'helped' to make the bugs stronger / drugs less effective, unfortunately.

I see 'Big' meat goat ranches post online about losing kids like it's 'just part of it'.....and that part would drive me crazy.


----------

