# Urgent.....Doe in labor NOW...update: healthy breech doeling



## freemotion (May 4, 2010)

She started serious contractions 55 minutes ago, saw amniotic fluid a little less than that.  No sign of sack or baby.  When to go in or call vet?


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## ksalvagno (May 4, 2010)

I would do it now if you are unsure. Either go in or call the vet. Whatever you feel most comfortable with.


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## freemotion (May 4, 2010)

two hooves and a nose 4-5" in......whatcha think?


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## aggieterpkatie (May 4, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> two hooves and a nose 4-5" in......whatcha think?


Is she a FF? I'd give her a little longer.  If she's seriously seriously contracting hard and pushing, you can always gently pull (with the contractions) to help her along.


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## noobiechickenlady (May 4, 2010)




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## freemotion (May 4, 2010)

At least third, second with me.  Big single buckling last year, one big breech, malpositioned doeling now out and baa-ing.  Waiting on vet who was already on the way.  Not sure if there is another, not sure if I should go back in yet.  Should I?  No placenta yet.


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## Henrietta23 (May 4, 2010)

Oh yay! You got a doeling! I'm thrilled for you. 
Sending good kidding vibes. Can't offer advice but I keep checking in! 
Go Mya!!


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## aggieterpkatie (May 4, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> At least third, second with me.  Big single buckling last year, one big breech, malpositioned doeling now out and baa-ing.  Waiting on vet who was already on the way.  Not sure if there is another, not sure if I should go back in yet.  Should I?  No placenta yet.


You can go in, just make sure to scrub up well and make sure she's clean as well.  The doeling you delivered was malpositioned?  I thought you said you had 2 hooves and a nose?    Either way, good luck and hope all goes well.


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## FarmerDenise (May 4, 2010)

Yeah for the doeling!

 for number 2


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## glenolam (May 4, 2010)

Any update?  I'm waiting for pics too!!


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## ksalvagno (May 4, 2010)

Sounds like everything is working out fine. At least the vet will be able to verify. At this point, I'm calling the vet out a lot. I have a lot to learn and I'm trying not to kill a goat to get my education. Of course this is costing more money than just replacing a goat but I have had several pet losses lately and just can't take another one. As time goes on and my knowledge is more expanded, then I will need the vet less and less.

Can't wait to see pictures.


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## freemotion (May 4, 2010)

Thanks for the help.  I actually set the laptop up in the hay storage and it was very slow, so now I have just a minute to post.....

It was not a nose and hooves, it was a butt and hocks!  My inexperience.....and rushing.  I went in halfway up to my elbow and felt more...found the real hooves and was aghast.  

Got her feet turned and she is out and in the living room with my parents.  Got 6 oz of colostrum that I stole from Ginger and have a couple ounces left, hoping to buy some when the people I got the buck from get home from work.

I will post details on SS on "Free's kidding thread" later today, with pictures!  Woohoo!

I had the vet on the phone...he was in Bristol, CT, over an hour away, and got the wrong message from the staff and was calling my house instead of my cell!  Got that straightened out and then he told me how to feel in her uterus for more babies.  There were no more elbows, knees, or hocks.

Doeling is gorgeous, jet black, sucked all the minerals out of poor Mya.  Gotta go milk, but there is a storm right now....gonna go give baby the last two ounces of milk as she is trying to nurse on everything and is a big, big girl.

Whew.


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## Henrietta23 (May 4, 2010)

She must be big. You thought she might be triplets!! Congratulations and bravo on keeping your head and being there for Mya. I'm truly impressed! 
Storms headed this way too. Need to put a few things in the yard away quickly. 
Hope you can get some pictures soon.


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## noobiechickenlady (May 4, 2010)

I bet that's a relief off poor Mya. Yay, baby!!


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## cmjust0 (May 4, 2010)

When I read that you saw amniotic fluid, continued pushing, and no baby I thought...uh oh...because that's how our breech happened..



Then I read "two hooves and a nose" and thought...whew!

And now this!?!? 



Goats...  I'm tellin ya..  Just never know what to expect.

We actually have one that was due...when was it again?...oh yeah, TODAY...who's out grazing with the herd right now, ligaments and all.

No clue.  



Super nice work you did there, and I'm really glad everything turned out for ya.  


(Just for reference, how'd you help the baby out?  You said you went further and were aghast to find her fronts -- I would be too -- and that you "got her feet turned"...I'm assuming you pulled her hind feet back behind her, then pulled her out and downward in sort of a reverse-diving position?)

Su


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## Henrietta23 (May 4, 2010)

Did I say I want dairy goats???


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## cmjust0 (May 4, 2010)

Henrietta23 said:
			
		

> Did I say I want dairy goats???


Those of us who raise goats _on purpose_ get what we deserve.


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## Mini-M Ranch (May 4, 2010)

Oh MY!  Glad everything worked out in the end...so to speak.

Our doe that kidded in January had a little doeling that presented tail first.  I had to push her back in, find the back feet, pull them out and then pull her in the reverse-dive position.  After she was out, about ten seconds later, her brother fell out on top of her and another sister after that.  Seriously, it was like a waterfall of bubbles!  Guess they were tired of waiting for their backwards sister to get out of the way! lol.


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## cmjust0 (May 4, 2010)

Mini-M Ranch said:
			
		

> Oh MY!  Glad everything worked out in the end...so to speak.
> 
> Our doe that kidded in January had a little doeling that presented tail first.  I had to push her back in, find the back feet, pull them out and then pull her in the reverse-dive position.  After she was out, about ten seconds later, her brother fell out on top of her and another sister after that.  Seriously, it was like a waterfall of bubbles!  Guess they were tired of waiting for their backwards sister to get out of the way! lol.


We yanked one out by the tail a few weeks ago..  Thought about pushing her back in, but she had half her butt out already and she was obviously not a hosscat in terms of size..  Kinda just figured pushing her back in and fumbling around all that would be more troublesome than just pulling.  Not to mention, mama's contractions were near constant by that point..

I second guessed myself a time or two as I felt the kid's tail popping in my hand (  ) but...it worked out alright.


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## FarmerDenise (May 4, 2010)

So glad everything is ok.


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## Roll farms (May 4, 2010)

Congratulations!  Ya did fine.


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## ohiofarmgirl (May 4, 2010)

wow oh wow!! i was wondering what was going on!!!

yay!!!!!  cant wait to see pix!


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## helmstead (May 4, 2010)




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## RockyToggRanch (May 4, 2010)

Glad everything is fine.

I just need to "butt" in for a sec.  I'm not as experienced as many here are, but I have learned a lot, first hand in the last few months.

I read so many posts advising to push a breech back and reposition it. 

As a newbie...I wish I had known the risk of uterine tears. My vet told me that pulling is usually okay...pushing is very dangerous.

I didn't push, but had to manipulate two tangled kids trying to present at the same time. This was after pulling a large dead breech kid. The doe died 2 days later.

Just saying...know what you're doing or risk losing your doe.

Sorry if this post is hyjacking...or inapropriate...I just never see any warnings of the dangers of pushing.


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## aggieterpkatie (May 4, 2010)

Great job, Free!  





			
				RockyToggRanch said:
			
		

> Glad everything is fine.
> 
> I just need to "butt" in for a sec.  I'm not as experienced as many here are, but I have learned a lot, first hand in the last few months.
> 
> ...


I've pushed lots of animals back in to get a better position for birthing. I think most of the trouble comes from not protecting possibly sharp (sharp enough to tear a uterus) like hooves.  Babies are born with very soft hooves, but they're still sharp enough to tear a uterus.  Usually when I have to bring hooves up, I cup my hand over them.  

Oh yeah, and going slow and working with the goat always helps!  You just have to do the best you can with what you have to work with at the moment.


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## RockyToggRanch (May 4, 2010)

That's the kind of info that is so important. But newbies read posts that don't include that safety info and assume simplicity.


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## glenolam (May 4, 2010)

I'm glad everything worked out well for you too!

Bristol is very far, especially in these quick storms we had today.

How far is Woodstock, CT from you?  Tufts is there - might that be closer than Bristol?


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## Henrietta23 (May 4, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> I'm glad everything worked out well for you too!
> 
> Bristol is very far, especially in these quick storms we had today.
> 
> How far is Woodstock, CT from you?  Tufts is there - might that be closer than Bristol?


I got the feeling he was out on a call in Bristol, not based there, but I could be wrong. Woodstock is probably close to an hour and a half from Free's area.


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## Mini-M Ranch (May 4, 2010)

I pushed back in under advisement of my vet, whom I trust very much.  I understand there must be several different views on this, just as many other matters of goat care, or anything else for that matter.  I think, in the moment, you have to do what your instincts tell you to do.


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## freemotion (May 4, 2010)

And the trouble can be in how each person defines "push!"  When I finally got bold and really put my hand in there, not just some timid fingers, I found that I really had a lot of room to work with.  Huge doe, one baby.  I suppose I was lucky, but it sure didn't feel that way when it was happening.  I did know to protect the uterine wall when moving a foot.  I'm just happy it was a goat and not a horse!  I oversaw the pregnancies of many mares when I worked full time with horses.  Never had an improperly presented one, but I scared myself silly each spring by re-reading Blessed Are the Broodmares!

Yep, the vet was on call in Bristol, the practice is the next town over, the closest one that handles large animals.  I have put baby goats right into the car and brought them in....but the hubby had the car today.   Our local vets do refer the tough cases to Tufts or Cornell.

I was able to talk to the vet on the phone to get specific instructions on checking her for other kids, and felt confident with his advise, which he felt confident in giving me.

Pics tomorrow, hopefully, since dh has to get up early for work and we are all pooped!  Plum is napping (stuck in her thumb and pulled out a plum and said, "what a good girl, am I!"  ) and I am trying to figure out the bottle feeding thing, with all the conflicting info out there!


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## glenolam (May 5, 2010)

Just a question out of curiosity - are you bottle feeding because of the stress of the situation or do you do that with all your kids?


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## patandchickens (May 5, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Plum is napping (stuck in her thumb and pulled out a plum and said, "what a good girl, am I!"  )


ROTFL, that's a great name 

Congrats,

Pat


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## freemotion (May 5, 2010)

Thanks, Pat, I like names that make me giggle.  I had a cat named Bagels and for some reason, that made me giggle for 18 years!



			
				glenolam said:
			
		

> Just a question out of curiosity - are you bottle feeding because of the stress of the situation or do you do that with all your kids?


Mya tested positive for CAE and I want to keep the doeling and keep her CAE-free.  It is passed through the milk.  Otherwise, I am a huge fan of letting the dam teach the baby how to be a goat!  So I will try to graft this baby onto my other doe, who also had a single doeling.  We will see.....


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## glenolam (May 5, 2010)

Thanks, free.  I was curious if it had something to do with the stress and if the dam refused her kid or something like that.  If I ever get in a situation like that (hopefully never!) I figured I'd tuck that bit of info in my brain if that was the case.


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## glenolam (May 5, 2010)

freemotion said:
			
		

> I will post details on SS on "Free's kidding thread" later today, with pictures!  Woohoo!


Where's the thread!?!  I'm dying to see pics! and keep checking BYC!


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## Henrietta23 (May 5, 2010)

glenolam said:
			
		

> freemotion said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here you go!
http://www.sufficientself.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=5358


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## freemotion (May 5, 2010)

New pics on p 19 and more to come by the weekend.  Gotta go get her in the house for the night!


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## freemotion (May 5, 2010)

Just took a bunch of pictures of her with her diaper on.  I let her run loose in the kitchen for an hour and she terrorized my old grouchy dog by trying to climb on him.  Poor guy.  She didn't understand his growl and he didn't understand my reprimand...of him!  I tried to get him onto the couch, but he wanted to be at my feet, too.  Silly.

She steps out of her diaper now so I rigged up suspenders for her, and it works great!  Can't wait for dh to download the pics onto the computer so I can show ya!  She only wears the diaper when loose in the house or sitting on a lap on the couch.  She was in a stall all day with a heat lamp with short supervised excursions outside, and is now in the dog crate with a sweater on, and thick towels under her, no diaper.


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