# Copper bolusing



## redtailgal (Sep 5, 2011)

z


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## elevan (Sep 5, 2011)

If the rods are delivered to the stomach, and are slow release...........are they not pooped out the other end?

*The rods "embed" into the stomach lining...hence why they are not supposed to be chewed.*

Is the copper toxic to worms? WHY does it help with worming?
from:  http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/revisitingcopper.html


> The research on COWP
> 
> Widespread resistance to anthelmintics has led scientists to pursue various non-chemical alternatives for controlling internal parasitism in small ruminants. One such alternative is copper oxide wire particles (COWP). While their mechanism of action is not fully understood, COWP have been proven to reduce barber pole worm infection in sheep and goats, especially young stock.
> 
> ...


How do you know when to bolus? or do you just do it on a schedule? ( I am afriad of overdosing and causing toxicity)

*You should check levels for your area...your extension agent or vet should be able to help you with that.*

I would like to hear your methods, and thoughts on this.  Do you bolus? when and why? what method do you use to get it in them? At what ages do you start?  Do you feel like there is anything else that I need to know (aside from dosaging)?

*I bolus once a year for most of the herd...a couple get it 2x year.
I now use the method outlined by helmstead here:* http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=7238&p=3


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## redtailgal (Sep 5, 2011)

z


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## Renegade (Sep 6, 2011)

We copper bolus everything twice a year. 

Donna


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 6, 2011)

copper bolused early this spring, We were very happy with the results and our worm loads were way way down. We have only done our adult herd. 

I tried the marshmellow thing once, but not with much luck. A couple does showed interest,and then rain all the other goats off and no one else would try eating them. bolusing just seemed the best way to get it done and not diddle around with it. Atleast with 20 or 30 goats in a herd. 


I still had the most problems with worm loads on  my yearlings, even after bolusing. but atleast 10 of my 20 adult does  have not been wormed even one time since last fall, yes almost a year.  5 more of the 20 have maybe only been wormed once or twice and then there have been 5 or so that have been a little more persistant with the worm load problems. 


We also bring the red cell out with us when we worm, If they are border line on the famancha scale and over all condition, we only give red cell(30 cc), and recheck in a week, if they are very anemic we worm, give an iron shot(3 cc), and also 30cc red cell. We don't just use famancha scale, we also consider overall body condtion and hair coat quality. so even if they are not anemic and have poor hair coat quality, I will hit them with red cell.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Sep 6, 2011)

i'm doing this later this week. i have the copper for calves but the pills are HUGE and way too much for my little girls. so i asked at the pharmacy and they gave me empty people-type capsules and my plan is to open the big calf-size pills and fill the people pills with the copper and give it to her that way. 

i talked to my breeder friend this weekend and he gave me the dose info and a "tip" which was to dunk the pills in veggie oil so they'd go down easier. 

thats the plan anyway


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## cmjust0 (Sep 6, 2011)

redtailgal said:
			
		

> If the rods are delivered to the stomach, and are slow release...........are they not pooped out the other end?


Goats have four stomachs.  COWP is designed to be trapped in the folds of the abomasum, which also happens to be where barberpole worms live.  



> Is the copper toxic to worms? WHY does it help with worming?


It's not really known why it works, but I'd suspect the release of copper creates a toxic environment..  Excess copper will kill almost anything..  It's used as an algaecide and fungicide, and I recently read an article where some scientists put MRSA on a copper surface and watched it die off in a matter of minutes.  They're making antibacterial products now that contain copper solutions now..  

My take on it is that if you're less than an inch in height or length, copper just isn't to be trifled with..  



> How do you know when to bolus? or do you just do it on a schedule? ( I am afriad of overdosing and causing toxicity)


That's an excellent question.  Most folks would say to bolus when they have red/orange hindquarters and/or the hair on the very tips of their tails falls out, but Kim's well-documented personal experience with a red-assed fishtailed goat that was maxed out on copper says otherwise..


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## cmjust0 (Sep 6, 2011)

By the way..  ..go to google and type in "copper kills " and look at the autocompletes..  It's a pretty good list that pops up and I'm about 99% sure that it **really does** kill all that stuff..  And I sincerely doubt that's an all-inclusive list!


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## jodief100 (Sep 6, 2011)

ohiofarmgirl said:
			
		

> i'm doing this later this week. i have the copper for calves but the pills are HUGE and way too much for my little girls. so i asked at the pharmacy and they gave me empty people-type capsules and my plan is to open the big calf-size pills and fill the people pills with the copper and give it to her that way.
> 
> i talked to my breeder friend this weekend and he gave me the dose info and a "tip" which was to dunk the pills in veggie oil so they'd go down easier.
> 
> thats the plan anyway


I use these.  http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=gelatin capsules

The 1/2"  ones fit in my bolus gun.  I am going to try the veggie oil trick.  I sometimes have difficulty getting the capsule out of the balling gun.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Sep 6, 2011)

oh hey, jodie - thats what my breeder was trying to find for me. thats what he originally suggested... but he couldnt find any while we were standing there! he said they really work

thanks for the link!


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 6, 2011)

yup, that is what we use, we purchase the copasure and gel caps from valley vet.


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## redtailgal (Sep 6, 2011)

z


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Sep 6, 2011)

A wealth of copper info:

http://www.saanendoah.com/copper1.html

We bolus twice yearly.


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## fortheloveofgoats (Sep 6, 2011)

So if I were to go to the feed store, what would I buy?


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 6, 2011)

fortheloveofgoats said:
			
		

> So if I were to go to the feed store, what would I buy?


copasure, but most feed stores don't carry it, a few will have it or sell it a capsul at a time, instead of making you have to buy all 25 capsules. Which cost around $45


http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=2e87c3c9-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=copasure

Then you open them out and measure out 1 gram per 22 lbs of body weight, I just eyeball it and give my adult goats over 100 lbs 1/2 the capsules. 

purchase more empty gelatin caps, also sold at valley vet, and put the extra copper rods in those.  Get the smallest onse. 
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail....a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=gelatin capsules

Using a bolus gun, to administer the capsuls, by putting them way way in the back of their mouths. 

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e076e2-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=bolus gun

Or 
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07afa-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5&gas=bolus gun


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## redtailgal (Sep 6, 2011)

z


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## Roll farms (Sep 6, 2011)

Hey, I can send you a couple.  I just got a new jar.  PM me your addy.

What I'd suggest is you give 'em to 'em in late spring, so they'll have 'higher' copper levels going into the worst part of barberpole season.


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 7, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> Goats have four stomachs.


Just a little peeve of mine.  They have one stomach with 4 compartments.     Our anatomy professor hated when someone said they had 4 stomachs so I kinda adopted his peeve.


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## cmjust0 (Sep 7, 2011)

aggieterpkatie said:
			
		

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The *one* time I start out an explanation with babysteps for someone new, and this is what I get?!?


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## aggieterpkatie (Sep 7, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> aggieterpkatie said:
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I couldn't help it and I knew you could take a little ribbing.


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## redtailgal (Sep 7, 2011)

x


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## DonnaBelle (Sep 7, 2011)

http://www.dairygoatjournal.com/issues/87/87-3/coppers_role_in_goat_health.html

This is a very good article on Copper for goats.

DonnaBelle


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## Island Creek Farm (Sep 9, 2011)

Not trying to get flamed here!  LOL

I've had two people try to copper bolus our goats (besides me and one was a goat vet!), they ALWAYS urp it back up, chew it and spit it out...no matter HOW long we hold their heads up!

This time I measured my copasure, mixed in 5ml of probios and my goats licked it off the tonge depressor...absolutely NO crunching!  Can't be worse than the marshmallow method!  At least it gets in them...with them spitting the capsules out it was getting pretty pricey!


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## elevan (Sep 9, 2011)

Island Creek Farm said:
			
		

> Not trying to get flamed here!  LOL
> 
> I've had two people try to copper bolus our goats (besides me and one was a goat vet!), they ALWAYS urp it back up, chew it and spit it out...no matter HOW long we hold their heads up!
> 
> This time I measured my copasure, mixed in 5ml of probios and my goats licked it off the tonge depressor...absolutely NO crunching!  Can't be worse than the marshmallow method!  At least it gets in them...with them spitting the capsules out it was getting pretty pricey!


I'm with you...the capsules are not the way to go with _my goats_...just won't work.  While some may have luck with them you have to be prepared with other options just in case


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## cmjust0 (Sep 9, 2011)

When I've done it, I use a good bolus gun that I *bury to the rings* down their throats, and I always have a drench syringe full of water ready to go as soon as the bolus gun comes out.  They *will* swallow, multiple times, when you trickle the water down the back of their tongue.  I've yet to have one yarp a capsule back up doing it that way..  It's possible that they may yarp up some of the copper rods with their next cud, but...well...I have to assume that since Copasure was designed for a ruminant, someone thought of that and either did something to lessen the impact or adjusted the dosage accordingly...or whatever.  I dunno..  

There's only so much a person can do, but I *can* at least get them to swallow a copper bolus.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 9, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> When I've done it, I use a good bolus gun that I *bury to the rings* down their throats, and I always have a drench syringe full of water ready to go as soon as the bolus gun comes out.  They *will* swallow, multiple times, when you trickle the water down the back of their tongue.  I've yet to have one yarp a capsule back up doing it that way..  It's possible that they may yarp up some of the copper rods with their next cud, but...well...I have to assume that since Copasure was designed for a ruminant, someone thought of that and either did something to lessen the impact or adjusted the dosage accordingly...or whatever.  I dunno..
> 
> There's only so much a person can do, but I *can* at least get them to swallow a copper bolus.


x2  Pretty much you can't baby around with it, you have to get the balling gun(bolus gun) way down deep. We also keep a 30cc drenching syringe ready with water in it.


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## autumnprairie (Dec 20, 2011)

ok, I have a few questions myself. can you copper bolus pg females and how can you tell if you are in a defficient area, I look at the map and I still don't know .


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## sunny (Dec 20, 2011)

There's more to it than just the copper level. Copper is very delicate and is affected by other things. When you look at your map you want to see:
Close to 10PPM of copper
No more than 3 times, copper amount, of zinc  (3 parts zinc to 1 part copper is balanced)
No more than 2PPM of Molybdenum, Copper intake should be at least 5 times the amount of molybdenum. 
No more than 250PPM of Iron
No more than 35% total sulpher 

Plant availability to absorb copper decreases as the alkilinity goes up. In acid soils they abosorb more, in alkinline soils they absorb less.

Don't forget about your water source. Wells often are high in sulpher and high in Iron.

Yes, you can bolus pregnant does. I just did 3 today myself.


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## genuck (May 10, 2012)

I just got copasure for my goats and sheep today. I had remembered the marshmallow thing but forgot to buy some. I made a peanut butter sandwich and cut it into 1" squares. Put the rods in the middle and squished it good. They got sucked down so fast I had a hard time telling which nose got one! Plus seeing a ewe try to get peanut butter off the roof of her mouth is priceless


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## Renegade (May 11, 2012)

I know it's late to point this out but sheep are not supposed to have added copper.

Donna


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## sunny (May 11, 2012)

Copper Oxide doesn't have the toxic effects of Copper Sulfate. Many people use the copasure for their sheep to help with parasite control. The dose for them is 2 grams every 6 months.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 13, 2012)

*What is the dose for goats? I just picked some up from a friend. I think I'm gonna try the peanut butter method. *


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## autumnprairie (May 13, 2012)

WhiteMountainsRanch said:
			
		

> *What is the dose for goats? I just picked some up from a friend. I think I'm gonna try the peanut butter method. *


http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-copasure 
Elevan has some great links


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (May 13, 2012)

autumnprairie said:
			
		

> WhiteMountainsRanch said:
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Thanks! *


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## genuck (May 14, 2012)

Renegade said:
			
		

> I know it's late to point this out but sheep are not supposed to have added copper.
> 
> Donna


I was under that impression too until I started looking up pest control. A pleasant surprise when so many dewormers are ineffective. Of course though the sheep are much more resistant to worms than my goats


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