# Show Sheep Beginnings



## Margali (Jul 11, 2022)

Cassandra will be 6 mid August and desparately wants to show sheeps. I am willing to help her show Mocha, our new registered Katahdin ewe.

This thread will follow our progress. We are starting with getting Mocha used to us handling her all over. I found plenty of videos about leading sheep and posing them. I need advice on the admin side:
-How do you tell how old child needs to be at a show?
-A terminal or auction  show means sheep don't come home. Are there any other terms to avoid?
-Does AOB mean All Other Breeds? Is it worth trying to show a katahdin in that class?
@Show Sebright @Ridgetop @Legamin @BrahmerQueen

*1ST SHOW: GAIL CHRISTIAN LEGACY BUCKLE SHOW* Oct 29th, Stephenville Texas
*COSTUME DESIGN*


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 11, 2022)

Rules are different depending on whether you are referring to Fairs, market livestock, and breed shows.  Each organization regulates itself. 

You need to check with your local fair rules and also with the state and county rules governing fairs in your state and county.  You can do this either online, or request a printed copy of the rues from the different Fairs.

Most fairs will not allow a child to show large livestock under 9 years old.  The child must turn 9 by the first of the year that the show is held.  Small stock can be entered by children age 5 and older.  

Large livestock classifications are sheep, goats (market and dairy), cattle, equines, etc.  
Small stock includes poultry and rabbits.

4-H will not allow youth under 9 to show large livestock.  FFA is middle school and high school so have no worries there.  Grange has different age limitations but all organizations and fairs must abide by the State, County and Local Rules, whichever is stricter.

All work, feeding, pen cleaning, moving the animal, shearing, hoof clipping, etc. in a youth show MUST be done by the child.  If the parent needs to shear the animal do it at home before bringing the animal to the Fair.  If parents fit the animal at the Fair, or are doing the work, it can be grounds for a complaint and disqualification.

Breeding shows are governed by the breed/species organizations putting on the show. They do not have age rules about exhibitors as long as the child can physically restrain the animal. Breeding shows are for registered animals of that species or breed.  However, remember that the exhibitors at breeding shows are there to win because this increases the value of their animals.  They will be less receptive to a child that can't control her animal or upsets the show.  Large breed shows in some species are business for some of these breeders.  However, many of these breeding shows also have youth shows where children can enter and are cut some slack.  They also often have showmanship tips and seminars.  

At this point, I would encourage Cassandra to halter break the 6 month old ewe and work with her.  Have her do as much of the sheep work as possible since that will get her familiar with doing it when she goes to an actual show.  

One problem with sheep shows is that they only have 3 age classes for sheep.  Early lambs, late lambs and yearlings.  Occasionally they have a stud ram class.  Ewes are expected to be in the field lambing after yearling age.  Dairy goats and cows have a much longer show life since most of their judging points are based on dairy structure and udder development - which can't be judged until they are in milk.

Go ahead and work with Cassandra on showmanship with her ewe since everything she learns now will be used when she goes to a show with other registered sheep.  To find sheep shows, go online.  Most of them are advertised.  There is a large livestock show in Fort Worth every year and lots of other sheep shows around TX so start taking her to shows to watch the exhibitors and how the sheep are shown. 

By the way, market lambs are shown without a halter by only the exhibiting child.  Breeding sheep shows allow 2 persons in the ring - one to lead the lamb on halter and stack it up in front, the second to stack the rear legs and help.  Go figure!  LOL


----------



## Show Sebright (Jul 11, 2022)

How do you tell how old child needs to be at a show?
Raven show I’ll have a rule book that states the age.
-A terminal or auction show means sheep don't come home. Are there any other terms to avoid?
Yes, those shows are for market animals only. You will not get your sheep back. Make sure you enter in shows with the correct class. Some shows are hair only and others are all breeds.
-Does AOB mean All Other Breeds? Is it worth trying to show a katahdin in that class?
Not sure about this one. I do market lambs.

Winch you kid is so younge you can show the lamb with a halter on for her to have a easy way to grab hold. When she gets older or more competitive she can’t use a halter.


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Jul 11, 2022)

Margali said:


> Cassandra will be 6 mid August and desparately wants to show sheeps. I am willing to help her show Mocha, our new registered Katahdin ewe.
> 
> This thread will follow our progress. We are starting with getting Mocha used to us handling her all over. I found plenty of videos about leading sheep and posing them. I need advice on the admin side:
> -How do you tell how old child needs to be at a show?


At 4h shows here you have to 8 on September 1st. At jackpot shows they will kids younger than Cassandra show and they are allowed to use a halter but I'm not sure about help in the ring if you can find shows that you would go to now and get the rules, that way you know if she is old enough, if she has to be in 4h to show at this one even if it's an open class etc


Margali said:


> -A terminal or auction  show means sheep don't come home. Are there any other terms to avoid?


Not any that I can think of you would be entering your sheep in a open/jackpot/breeding show


Margali said:


> -Does AOB mean All Other Breeds?


Yes


Margali said:


> Is it worth trying to show a katahdin in that class?


I'm not sure. It depends on the quality of your sheep. If there is a hair ewe class by all means enter her in that if AOB is the only option then do that. And some shows don't do divisions just ewe show so she might be going against black face cross ewes depending on what show it is.


Margali said:


> @Show Sebright @Ridgetop @Legamin @BrahmerQueen


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Jul 11, 2022)

@Poka_Doodle


----------



## Margali (Jul 11, 2022)

I was looking at this one that close by.








						Junior Lamb Show
					






					www.ntfair.com
				



The registration doesn't ask for age and neither does rules. The sanctioned group just says <9 as novice. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Jul 11, 2022)

Margali said:


> I was looking at this one that close by.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't see why you couldn't do it but if you are you need to start working with the ewe now if you haven't already


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 11, 2022)

$45 per head/class is pretty high entry fee.  Sounds like a big show.  And hot in the middle of summer.  Breeding shows are also held during the spring and fall when the weather is more pleasant.  For her first show you might want to look for a smaller show or wait a year while she learns to handle and show the ewe.  Hate to see the little ones get discouraged or worried about going into the ring alone at a big show without experience or training. It can often turn them against livestock shows.  If you have never shown livestock, I suggest you check with 4-H clubs or FFA groups near you with older kids that show who can help her with showmanship instruction before going to any show.  Showing is fun but can be stressful for you as well as her.  

You will need a "sheep sweater" to put the sheep in after bathing.  It helps keep them clean since you can't bed on straw in most Fairs and they often eat the shavings since you don't free feed them at shows. Other equipment to take will be shovels, rakes, muck buckets, water buckets, and hay feeders, etc.  Also folding chairs, and a cooler with plenty of water bottles for yourselves.  Also lunch since Fair food is expensive and not always good.  You may be required to clean out your pens after the show and certainly will want to clean out the pen during a multi day show.

Or you can just go to a couple Fairs and shows first to see how things are done.  Take chairs, water, food and have fun.


----------



## Margali (Jul 11, 2022)

@BrahmerQueen Opps, I didn't mean have her show there in August. I meant go watch this year and plan to try next year/ similar shows later this year. That was example of rules and the shows I was finding local-ish. 

@Ridgetop We've tried going to the local 4H group for multiple meeting this spring. Introduced ourselves, helped setup/ teardown tables and chairs. Unless I cornered someone, no one would talk to us. 🤷‍♀️ And the summer meeting were basically role call of who went where and what they won. This school year we are going to try next town over...


----------



## Show Sebright (Jul 11, 2022)

Margali said:


> @BrahmerQueen Opps, I didn't mean have her show there in August. I meant go watch this year and plan to try next year/ similar shows later this year. That was example of rules and the shows I was finding local-ish.
> 
> @Ridgetop We've tried going to the local 4H group for multiple meeting this spring. Introduced ourselves, helped setup/ teardown tables and chairs. Unless I cornered someone, no one would talk to us. 🤷‍♀️ And the summer meeting were basically role call of who went where and what they won. This school year we are going to try next town over...


Maybe you have a local online 4h? We have 2 in orange  county


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Jul 11, 2022)

Margali said:


> @BrahmerQueen Opps, I didn't mean have her show there in August. I meant go watch this year and plan to try next year/ similar shows later this year. That was example of rules and the shows I was finding local-ish.
> 
> @Ridgetop We've tried going to the local 4H group for multiple meeting this spring. Introduced ourselves, helped setup/ teardown tables and chairs. Unless I cornered someone, no one would talk to us. 🤷‍♀️ And the summer meeting were basically role call of who went where and what they won. This school year we are going to try next town over...


Oh ok that's a good idea sorry. At the show would also be a good place to talk to people that show I'm sure there will be other katadin breeders there that can help you


----------



## Poka_Doodle (Jul 11, 2022)

I would maybe look for cheaper shows like others mentioned, or look at livestock jackpot shows, and see if any have PeeWee showmanship for kids her age. Lots of those classes can be done with a borrowed animal and are great to get kids introduced to showing. That would be my best advice.


----------



## Margali (Jul 16, 2022)

We will be at Kaufmann County showgrounds this evening to watch. 😀
https://www.facebook.com/339884742774600/posts/pfbid028riKe64WANtwNM4nVGv3LsbxJyPiajdALuT9n2SiKNFJE7TnkBZFpMVUWzj4ptBkl/?sfnsn=mo


----------



## Ridgetop (Jul 17, 2022)

Some 4-H clubs are really cliquey.  Ugh!    You can always start your own club.  You will need to sign up and take the leader training (only 1 day).  All you need are 5-10 kids and 3 families.  Then you can choose your own projects and the parents that have preferences for teaching (or doing and learning) certain things can be leaders.  As leaders you will get all the information about stuff from the 4-H staff at your County Extension office. Might be easier than joining a club that has people that are not welcoming.  It will certainly be easier setting your own meeting schedule. And when your kid's school friends hear you are starting a new club, they will probably want to join your club.  No rush yet.  What ages are your kids?


----------



## Margali (Jul 17, 2022)

@Ridgetop Alexander is 10 and uninterested. Cassandra turns 6 in August and super interested. Part of my issue is we have Katahdins which aren't commonly shown, I got several "grumpf" faces when I mentioned them. We did talk to a few people at the Kaufmann show that show Dorpers. The people were nice but freely admitted Dorpers are psychotic..  I also have issues with show docking that leaves zero tail vertebra and often causes prolapse issues.


----------



## Show Sebright (Jul 17, 2022)

Margali said:


> @Ridgetop Alexander is 10 and uninterested. Cassandra turns 6 in August and super interested. Part of my issue is we have Katahdins which aren't commonly shown, I got several "grumpf" faces when I mentioned them. We did talk to a few people at the Kaufmann show that show Dorpers. The people were nice but freely admitted Dorpers are psychotic..  I also have issues with show docking that leaves zero tail vertebra and often causes prolapse issues.


You can show your sheep. They are hair sheep you just got to enter them in as hair ewes/rams. If you get wool sheep they need to be shaved.


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Jul 17, 2022)

Margali said:


> @Ridgetop Alexander is 10 and uninterested. Cassandra turns 6 in August and super interested. Part of my issue is we have Katahdins which aren't commonly shown, I got several "grumpf" faces when I mentioned them. We did talk to a few people at the Kaufmann show that show Dorpers. The people were nice but freely admitted Dorpers are psychotic..  I also have issues with show docking that leaves zero tail vertebra and often causes prolapse issues.


If your sheep is a katahdin you shouldn't have to dock it period.


----------



## Margali (Jul 17, 2022)

@BrahmerQueen I will not dock my Katadhins. I just meant that was another reason I wasn't doing Dorpers. Beside you know the whole psychotic bit.


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Jul 17, 2022)

Margali said:


> @BrahmerQueen I will not dock my Katadhins. I just meant that was another reason I wasn't doing Dorpers. Beside you know the whole psychotic bit.


My cracker sheep are psycho😕
It must just be a hair sheep thing lol


----------



## purplequeenvt (Jul 18, 2022)

Registered Katahdins are shown undocked in breeding classes. If there are enough exhibitors, they’ll be shown as their own breed. Otherwise they’ll be thrown into an AOB (all other breeds) class. 

In breeding classes, you can show lambs and yearlings (some small shows or youth-only shows will have classes for aged ewes too).


----------



## Margali (Aug 4, 2022)

I'm not sure if training is going well or not. 🤷‍♀️ Mocha will come up to get her evening grain and let me put halter on. She grudgingly walks with Cassandra but will hop and shove. Let's me touch her legs but moves them back. We are only getting 2 -3 thirty minute sessions a week.


----------



## Show Sebright (Aug 4, 2022)

Margali said:


> I'm not sure if training is going well or not. 🤷‍♀️ Mocha will come up to get her evening grain and let me put halter on. She grudgingly walks with Cassandra but will hop and shove. Let's me touch her legs but moves them back. We are only getting 2 -3 thirty minute sessions a week.


Sounds like progress. Your doing great


----------



## Baymule (Aug 4, 2022)

She probably wasn’t handled, sounds like she is doing real good.


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 5, 2022)

Margali said:


> We did talk to a few people at the Kaufmann show that show Dorpers. The people were nice but freely admitted Dorpers are psychotic.. I also have issues with show docking that leaves zero tail vertebra and often causes prolapse issues.


Psychotic Dorpers are the black headed ones.  White Dorpers are calm and if handled by children will be friendly for treats etc.  We have White Dorpers.  I don't like psychotic sheep and we cull them.

You have to differentiate between *"White Dorpers"* and *"Dorpers"* which are the black headed original ones.  When the White Dorpers were developed all Dorpers were shown and registered under the term Dorpers. Once the White Dorpers were developed and reached significant numbers, they were given their own classification and are registered in a separate studbook.  You cannot breed a Dorper (black head) to a White Dorper and register it.  The offspring just be registered as percentages in the sire's studbook - either WD or D.  

Katahdins dont have to be docked, but most Dorpers and white Dorpers are for 2 reasons.  Dorpers and WD have wool which sheds in the summer, but they lamb in winter too when the wool is on them.  With a long tail when lambing the wool can get fly strike (flies lay eggs in the wool, maggots hatch and crawl into the sheep's private parts and chew on them causing severe infection and sometimes death).

Show sheep are not allowed to be docked super short anymore.  People continue to dock as short as possible though because it makes the rump look straighter and more level.  If breeders are breeding correct conformation this is not necessary.  Short docking was supposed to cause prolapse, but if you have sheep that prolapse, just cull the breeding stock that is producing them.  In the show ring you have to be able to lift the tail stub with a pencil.  Sometimes you will see the judge call for a pencil or measure in the ring.  We feel that is still way too short so we dock ours at the 3rd or 4th vertebra so they have a short stubby tail.  We are used to a dock after 30 years, and don't like messy vulvas or udders after lambing which attracts flies.  If you want to enter a market class with a Katahdin, go ahead and dock because that tail will detract from the overall appearance of the animal in the ring.  

Don't worry about difficulties in training a lamb to lead on halter.  It is not your fault that it takes a while.  Sheep are stupid.  It is hard work, tiring, sweaty, and will require many tranquilizers or hard liquor, your choice.  (Sometimes both!)  Anyway here are some tips on teaching a lamb to lead in a halter.  

*Lamb Halter training 101 *
Our family has over 30 years training lambs and sheep to lead on halters. We are experienced.    We still hate doing this job.  Once the job was relegated to the youngest family members, now I have to bribe those grandchildren too young to claim they have homework.  LOL  I will share this extensive knowledge with everyone here on Margali's Show Sheep thread.

Once trained a sheep will lead on halter _for the most part_.  The more it is led around the easier it will be to lead on halter.  (This is a good exercise for small children who will enjoy leading a haltered sheep.)  Being trained does *not* mean it will want to be caught to put on the halter though.  Unlike horses that walk up to you for the halter hoping for a fun canter across the field, sheep will still treat you like a hideous monster when you approach with the halter.  

*Equipment needed*
Adjustable sheep halters 
     Rope ones are cheap, great for families whose children leave the halter laying in the field never to be found until it turns up in the mower blades.  Rope halters need to be understood.
     Flat webbing ones are more expensive, but come in fun colors for kids, and can be marked with your family name for the Fair so no one makes off with it.  They are also easier to put on and are adjustable with buckles.  
Long sleeves, jeans, boots or tennis shoes will cut down on injuries
Gloves

One problem with halter training is the rope halters they sell for sheep. Rope halters have their place, they are cheap, and if lost at Fair no biggy, unless you are an OCD mother about equipment like me. However, rope halters look the same whether inside out, upside down, right side up, or in fact any way you look at them.  You need to spend about half an hour sorting out the halter to figure out how it will go on. Good luck!  It often takes several tries to get it on the right way.  This happens to experienced people too, thus the muttered curse words in the Fair stalls next to yours.  
Luckily, there is a solution.  Buy nylon webbing halters.  DO NOT BUY THE ONES THAT ARE COMPLETE HALTERS WITH A DETACHABLE LEAD.  Those are cute but useless.  You want the ones with the lead rope that goes under the chin and is firmly and permanently attached to the halter ring so it looks like a stud chain on a stallion halter.  These are easier to put on the sheep and to adjust.  Try to get the ones that have adjustable buckles on either side of the head piece.  Luckily these come in all sorts of cool colors for your kids.  Another positive is that you can put your family name on them with Magic Marker to avoid the bane of Fair mothers everywhere - "borrowing" of your equipment "just for a moment".  Most borrowers remove the halter after use and toss it over the nearest fence post or in some cases into their own tack box.  This leads to warfare in the barns.  Try to keep all your stuff marked with bright colored paint.  Choose 2 colors to use together so you can identify your rake, shovel, extra buckets, etc. across the barn.  And padlock your tack box at all times.  You will not be seen as mean, everyone else's mother will be doing the same thing.  You can identify experienced Fair moms by the amount of equipment they are able to hold, or drape around their shoulders while tucking in shirts, adjusting 4-H ties and hats, nd sntching colored drinks from any child wearing 4-H whites.  4-H uniforms were obviously designed by men who had never seen a child for more than 5 minutes at a time. 

*But back to sheep training - *
Unless you are proficient with haltering a sheep that is jumping into your face, running between your legs, trying to knock you over, or otherwise acting sheepishly normally, it takes a while to figure out how that rope halter goes on.  It is particularly hard because you have to hold the sheep around the neck with one hand, while putting the halter on the sheep's nose with another hand, and holding it there while placing the head rope behind the large stick out ears with your 3rd hand -  Oh wait, you don't have a 3rd hand? You will have to sprout hands 3 and 4 while struggling with the sheep, dropping the halter several times, retrieving it and putting it on wrong.  I usually put it on upside down the first time.  It is best to practice this halter thing in private several times to avoid sneering laughter from your children.

Once you have hands 3 and 4 you can easily hold the halter on the sheep while tightening it on the sheep's head.  Then transfer your grip to the lead rope and brace yourself for the rocket like attempted escape that will follow.  

Oh, did I forget to warn you to do this in a tiny pen about 4' x 6'?  OOPS!

Oh, and did I forget to tell you to make a small escape proof pen about 10' x 10' for the first lessons?  OOPS again!!

Let's assume you have grown your 3rd and 4th hands, have the sheep in a 4 x 6 pen for the haltering, and have a second 10 x 10 pen close by for the actual lesson.  Let us also assume that you have finally gotten the halter on the sheep in approximately the right way.  Now you can begin the training.  This starts with getting the sheep to move from the 4 x 6 haltering pen to the 10 x 10 training pen.  

In a soft coaxing voice you will attempt to get the sheep to take a couple steps forward.  The sheep will back up.  NO problem, a couple fingers under the tail will coax it forward.    As you lean over the sheep for this fingers-in-the-dock maneuver, the sheep will bolt forward past you (if you are lucky) or through you (if you are not).  This can be very painful on your hands.  Next time you will remember to wear the gloves I mentioned under equipment.  

Once the sheep is out of the haltering pen you will have to drag the sheep to the training pen.  The sheep will whirl around, bucking and leaping.  Be quick in your reflexes!  Don't let it run around you on the halter since this will effectually tie your ankles together.   In some form of strange dance, twisting and spinning, you will eventually maneuver the sheep into the training pen.  Sometimes it helps to have all family members surround you and the sheep and help shove it into the pen. 

Once in the pen you are now going to start the training to get the sheep to walk calmly on the lead.     Sorry.  The sheep will lunge every which way.  Your job is to hold onto the lead rope.  Occasionally the sheep will appear to calm down.  This is a trick while it catches it's breath and hopes to catch you off balance.  If you pull the sheep along little by little, your sheep will try to fool you by throwing itself backwards to the ground and lay there apparently choking to death.  Don't be fooled by this.  As soon as you rush to revive your sheep, it will explode into the air, knock you down, and dance all over your body with its sharp, mucky hooves. From your prone position on the ground you will see that a sheep's mouth wears a nasty sneer.  

Finally, after what seems like hours, but is actually about 30 minutes, the sheep will stand quietly.  This is because it is exhausted.  This is when training can actually begin.  You gently talk to the sheep as you lead it back to the haltering pen.  Remember to keep a tight grip on the lead rope since sheep keep a reserve of energy for the unwary.  Turning the sheep back into the small pen it can have water.  You can have that stiff drink, several aspirins, a long lie down and wonder why this ever seemed like a good idea.  

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, ad infinitum, you will have to repeat this process since sheep *forget everything they learn within 10 minutes*.  For some reason children, particularly 8-12 year olds think sheep training is hysterically funny.  They even enjoy being dragged across a pasture when they have tied the lead rope around their waist, "So he can't escape."  Their siblings enjoy watching this even more and beg for a turn!

Keep hydrogen peroxide in the large economy size and antibiotic ointment on hand.  Wear jeans and long sleeve shirts.  Start with small lambs.  Once you have some ewes trained, their lambs will train easily. Halter them as babies and lead them around following their mamas.  Two people are needed here, one for leading the ewe, one leading the lambs.

Once you train your kids to do the sheep halter training you can sit back in a lawn chair with a cold drink and laugh yourself silly!    Enjoy your sheep!  Mwaa Haa Haa!

Alternatively, hitch the trailer, load up all the animals, and head for the auction.  Then go on a cruise.  Oh yes, leave the children at home too.


----------



## Baymule (Aug 5, 2022)

That made me bust out laughing! @Margali you have years of fun ahead of you! Tortuous, but fun…… maybe?


----------



## Margali (Aug 5, 2022)

@Ridgetop You are quite reassuring! I have succeeded in impossible thing already. Mocha will walk up to eat grain and be haltered.

My Pepper and Dash have what I consider a reasonable dock. Their tales are about hand long and cover anus and vulva but not below. The show lambs at Kaufman fair had ZERO tail left like this example pic. 🤢 Picture is from Texas show lamb FB group where several people are dealing with prolapse. 



All Cassandra's gear is going to be purple. This is the show halter her grandma bought for birthday, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002MV9V32/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 .


----------



## Baymule (Aug 6, 2022)

I have one of my original ewes left. Ewenique. She has no tail, not even a stub. Miranda had no tail either. They just looked pitiful. I’m not a fan of no tails!


----------



## Show Sebright (Aug 6, 2022)

Aw I love the no tail. My sheep had it. But if this dude had a tail he would have broke it. Dutch is crazy


----------



## Margali (Aug 6, 2022)

Training with Mocha


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 6, 2022)

Where is the video?  Was going to suggest you tape a session and now I can't find it!  

Great news on your training success!  

Remember to buy some purple spray paint and spray splotches of color on all your equipment.  Also cut out a stencil with your last name and spray on larger pieces.


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Aug 6, 2022)

For small equipment if you have a cricket machine or know someone that has one the cut out vinyl is nice.
Maybe a purple sharpie too


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Aug 6, 2022)

Margali said:


> Training with Mocha


It says "this video is private" I think you have to change a setting on it


----------



## Margali (Aug 6, 2022)

@BrahmerQueen @Ridgetop try now?


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 7, 2022)

That is terrific progress!  I would consider that ewe halter trained.  Maybe not *show* trained, but definitely halter broke!  The show training will come as Cassandra gets older.

As to the jumping when the rear legs are touched, that is normal.  Again, constant practice with moving the legs back into position will teach her to stand still.  If she is showing in a youth breeding show, another child will have to accompany her into the ring.  If you ask an older experienced 4-H or FFA kid to help her they can set the rear legs while Cassandra holds the lambs head.  2 persons showing breeding sheep in halters is allowed and normal. If she shows in an "open" show (with adults) then you can go in the ring as the rear leg setter.  

For now just have Cassandra lead her around on the halter.  Occasionally stop and have her stand still (don't bother setting the legs since you just want the lamb to get used to standing still in the ring).  If the lamb will take treats from Cassandra, she can give her a treat for standing still.  Eventually you will have to work on the rear legs but there are tricks in setting a sheep in the ring that won't require setting the rear legs at all.  If you have a well behaved lamb on halter you can often walk them into the proper position which means you only have to move one leg or set the front legs.  These are tricks you will pickup in shows watching experienced people.

For now Cassandra is doing a great job with her lamb on halter!  Dod 't forget that when the lamb goes into an actual show she might act freaky.  Don't be the first sheep in the ring because a nervous lamb will often follow another lamb more quietly that it would enter a big open ring with lambs behind it.  Once the judge pulls you out of the line up (to make a new line up of winners ) the judge will have pretty much decided on yor lamb so if the lamb jumps around with a small child holding the halter people are amused and very forgiving.

Remember that in breeding shows if the show is small, the classes may all be combined with all breeds showing together.  The judge will judge each animal against its own breed standard.  Sometimes the more popular breeds have their own class and the others are shown in an "All Other Breeds" (AOB) combined class.  

Cassandra and you get a Blue Ribbon on training in my book!


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Aug 7, 2022)

Margali said:


> @BrahmerQueen @Ridgetop try now?


That's awesome and mocha looks very nice!


----------



## Margali (Aug 8, 2022)

Cassandra got her membership letter to KHSI. She was so excited when I read it to her.

She is Cassandra B. Griffin Wood Ranch and Mocha is registered to Jennie B. Griffin Wood Ranch. So Cassandra should be good for shows that says sheep has to be registered in entrant's name?


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 9, 2022)

In youth shows the animal *must* be registered in the youth exhibitor's name.  It cannot share ownership with another person or a ranch name.  In adult shows there is no such requirement for adult ownership to enter.  To be safe, *register all the sheep in Cassandra's name.*  Use either her youth membership in the KHSI or a family membership when registering the lambs.  Show yourself as "agent" for Cassandra.  You can sign all the paperwork, the animals can be entered and shown under her name in both youth and open shows, and you will have no problems with ownership requirements in youth shows.  In open shows you can show the animals registered in her name as well.  You don't want a glitch in registration of the animal to DQ her.

Here is a tip for paperwork - get a 3 ring school binder with a zip around closure for your sheep registration papers.  Put each registration in a clear page protector.  Use additional page protectors to hold her membership (and yours) information paperwork in KHSI.  When entering shows, registering lambs, etc. make a copy of the paperwork and put it in the binder.  That way when you arrive at the show and have to submit your registration paperwork at the livestock office for show check in, it is all in one place.  The zipper closure keeps everything inside and keeps the paperwork clean in the dusty barns.  Toss the binder into your tack box after check in.  

About your tack box and equipment -
Another tip is using a *large *plastic tool box on wheels for a tack box.   GEt the largest you can find since you will be amazed at all the stuff you need to put in it.  Buy duplicates of all the equipment, washing, grooming, and showing paraphernalia you will be taking to shows in the tack box to cut down on having to rush around gathering all the stuff before each show.  Check the contents and make sure you don't need to replace anything before and after shows.  Restock after each show then store the box knowing it is ready to go.  A folding metal tack rack (available through any livestock catalog) is handy for hanging over the pen to hold halters, etc.  Mine has 2 hooks on top to hook it over a rail and f hooks on the bottom.  The hooks swivel so the bar will pack flat in the tack box. Don't forget to pack Kaopectate for scours, and any other meds you will need *BUT* make sure they are legal and check any withdrawal dates for market animals.  You might never need the stuff in your box but another exhibitor might.  I always carried a length of stomach tubing and mineral oil with me.  Never needed it for my kids' animals, but one little girl was shaving her goat and kept pouring grain into the bucket to keep it still and the goat got choke.  Luckily another exhibitor was able to get the stuff out with my tubing or that poor child would have lost her goat.  Don't forget folding camp chairs - there is never enough seating at shows.  Pack a Magic Marker to mark all the stuff you forgot to mark at home!  *MARK YOUR NAME ON EVERYTHING IN GIANT LETTERS!

Get a padlock and have multiple keys cut. * If you can find a twin pack of padlocks keyed alike, that is even better.  You will want to lock your tack box.  With a padlock on your tack box you can shove your purse inside and not have to worry about it.  If you have special show clothes, buy a good plastic garment bag to keep them clean.  My kids had to wear white shirts and jeans - I bought duplicates so on hot sweaty days they could change into clean uniforms for showmanship where the kids are judged on both their appearance and the animal's grooming and presentation.  The 4-H hats and ties went in the bag too and each child had their own bag.  Exhibitor arm bands are held on by rubber bands - invest in your own pack because your child will drop theirs on the way back from picking up the armbands at ringside.  And even if you get an extra some other mom will try to borrow it off you when their child loses theirs.  LOL

*Oh yes, and make sure to pack aspirin or Tylenol for yourself!  *Being a show mom is very stressful because your child will forget where her show equipment is, lose her show number, loan equipment to a friend but won't remember which one, and otherwise keep you on the run.  I had a special extension cord, a dedicated Fair coffee pot with coffee, filters, disposable cups, Granola bars and Cup of Soup for emergencies, etc.  My tack room was often the first stop for frazzled moms who hadn't had time to get their first cup in the am.  LOL  

You will eventually start keeping a list of items that are necessary for your family.  No matter how intimidating it sounds, going to Fairs and stock shows with my kids was the best time of my life!


----------



## Margali (Aug 9, 2022)

So I should take back this cute bag I impulse bought?   


And get another kit like her dad's and some spraypaint?


Items must have divided storage. The single compartment giant box with corner wheels triggers horrible camping flashbacks. You know pawing thru entire container in the darn looking for the stinking batteries or matches...finding the sharp knives point first..


----------



## Margali (Aug 9, 2022)

@Ridgetop  Okay, I did some digging into KHSI registery and I think I understand. The registration owner should be:
Alexander OR Cassandra OR Dominic B.

That way Alexander can be 2nd kid in breeding show. And Dominic can show Mocha as well. Correct?


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 9, 2022)

Remember the *size* of the equipment you will be packing for the Fair/show.  The purple bag would be okay for Cassandra's personal stuff (books, snacks, etc.,) - looks like a 5 gallon bucket with a purple liner?  The 3 level box in the picture is like one we bought and thought we would like, but which turned out to be a nightmare on the dirt in the Fair/showground.  Ours opened by depressing a latch on front and then it slid open into 3 compartments.  Another one like that latched all 3 boxes together and they lifted off giving 3 separate boxes to find space for.  We abandoned both those styles for shows for large box style tool boxes.  With 4 children all showing one of every species we had to bring multiple boxes which you won't.  

Remember that the larger tool boxes have trays that sit on ledges inside.  Also, for certain small items (meds, not only for the sheep but for humans, spare rubber bands) you can use smaller latching clear plastic containers to hold them and pack that box into the large box.  As long as the large box has fairly large wheels it will roll across the fairgrounds.  Or, you can make a wheeled flat trolley to stack your tack box and equipment on, and use bungees to tie it down.  Normally you will pull into the showgrounds and unpack your car by the pen area.  Using a large flat tool box will also give you extra seating area or "tsble" space if you have to put it outside the sheep pen in the aisle.  Eventually you may want to ask the Fair if you can pay for an extra pen to use as a tack pen.  This is a luxury for short shows, but necessary for longer shows (Fairs) when you have to bring a week's worth of hay and grain along with cleaning tools, bedding (if allowed), and your own cooler for drinks and lunch.  Food and drinks at shows (*IF* there is a snack bar) cost an arm and a leg so you always want to bring your own.  It also will cut down on constant whining for "Fair Food" if the kids get used to not buying any snacks, drinks, etc.  For our 4 children I used 2 loaves of bread for enough sandwiches each day.  Also, apples, dry granola bars, and non-messy snacks.  Remember you may be there for 12 hours.  NO COLORED FRUIT DRINKS OR CHOCOLATE!  They will spill on their show clothes just before entering the ring prompting maternal meltdown. 
 

Have been trying for 45 minutes to post pix of good style tack box but no luck!    Going to post this then try another route to find the pix to send.


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 9, 2022)

Cassandra must be the registered owner and "Exhibitor".  This means that all the animals will be entered under her name as the owner and exhibitor.   "Exhibitor" in this case means the person entering the animal in the show, not necessarily the only one taking the animal into the ring.  Her brothers can show her animals in the youth ring for her if she is unavailable, incapacitated (like poor Show Sebright with her broken foot), or is showing another animal in the same class.  If she is going to be showing in Fairs where premium money is offered, it is better to keep all sheep in her name so that you can enter breeding *groups* where these classes are offered - "Bred By Exhibitor", "Produce of Dam", "Get of Sire", "Junior Flock", and "Senior Flock".  These are the money classes where all animals must be owned by one exhibitor, or bred by one exhibitor.  Because fewer kids have multiple animals or breeding flocks, there is less competition in these classes and thus more chance at the prize money.  Remember that the "Breeder" of an animal is the owner of the animal's mother at the time of birth and is the owner of the baby.  When you register the animal it will be registered into her name as the breeder until she (or you as her agent) transfers ownership to another person.  The only class where the person showing the animal MUST be the owner is showmanship.  

Still trying to figure out how to transfer my photos to my computer.


----------



## Margali (Aug 9, 2022)

Still confused... 
So for showmanship class, I need to update ownership to Cassndra. What happens if Dominic also wants to try PeeWee showmanship this year? Is that why I saw owners as sister OR brother in database?

For breeding shows, the sheep must be bred on your farm and registered purebred? If so, I wont have any of sheep suitable for several years.


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Aug 9, 2022)

Margali said:


> Still confused...
> So for showmanship class, I need to update ownership to Cassndra. What happens if Dominic also wants to try PeeWee showmanship this year? Is that why I saw owners as sister OR brother in database?
> 
> For breeding shows, the sheep must be bred on your farm and registered purebred? If so, I wont have any of sheep suitable for several years.


This should be in the show rules if it is required none of the shows here are like that tho


----------



## Margali (Aug 9, 2022)

BrahmerQueen said:


> This should be in the show rules if it is required none of the shows here are like that tho


I'm finding save the date type flyers for various shows. But when I look up the organization like Bonham FFA Alumni, I don't find anymore info. I just joined a Texas Show Goat & Sheep group on FB. Hopefully they are kind with questions.🤞


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 9, 2022)

Finally got these photos to load up but can't find the rotate option for the last two.  Sorry.  This is a nice size sturdy poly toolbox, with large wheels for dirt and uneven ground, and a pull-out handle to pull it with.  You can get them at Lowes or Home Depot. There is a usable lift out tray in the top for small items, and the bottom is large enough to store the larger show and grooming supplies, your purse, your registration notebook, entry paperwork, kids' sweaters or jackets, and snacks.  Fairs require you to present the original registration papers issued by the breed association at check in so you will need to bring your registration binder.  They will not accept copies unless they are faxed direct from the breed association to the Fair livestock office.  The 2 latches on the front are designed to take either small clips or padlocks.   It is sturdy enough for kids to sit on.  This size is about what you will need to start with.  LOL  With 3 kids you will soon find that you will need several of these but by then the kids will be able to drag their own tack boxes with them, or you will have enough animals to get 2 pens and use one for your feed and tack.  If you take the fitting stand to the Fair remember that only children are allowed to fit the sheep on the showgrounds.  If an adult does it there may be complaints and disqualification since it is a YOUTH show.  Since she will start off showing just one lamb, do all the prep work at home and leave the stanchion behind.  Eventually when your kids are used to doing their own pre work, they may decide to take fitting stands to do the final touch ups at the Fair.  

I recommend getting one of the stretchy lamb coats used for market lambs since putting it on the lamb after she is bathed and dry and wearing it before the show will keep the lamb clean. They come in purple too.  Look online.  This size box will hold all your beginning supplies.  You will need a wheeled cooler for drinks and lunches.  If you plan to do any grooming at the show, you will need your portable sheep fitting stand.  

Notice that I recommend getting everything with wheels.  The pens can be a LOOOONG way from the parking lot and you will be taking the cooler home each night and returning with it refilled each morning.  Having it on wheels is so much easier than _carrying_ a cooler full of ice and drinks.  I also used a long chain with a padlock to chain the stanchion/fitting stand, tack box, and chairs, up at night and run the chain through the bars of the pen.  You will not want to drag your equipment home every night and back every morning.  I am not very trusting, so locking up the equipment kept other people honest.  An easy way to keep the tack key on your person at all times is to get one of those spring keyrings that act like a bracelet.  You can give additional keys to the kids, but always keep the master on your wrist.  I put the car keys and tack key on the stretchy bracelet keyring to avoid having to carry anything around.   You will find that your hands will be full with the items your kids shove at you as they enter the showring and your phone to take photos so the less you have to hang onto the better.  LOL

One other thing you might like to do is to make a sign with your flock name on it for the front of your pen.  Sometimes Fairs will offer classes for informational displays at your pens and ribbons for best decorated or cleanest pens.  These are fun extras for the kids to do before the Fair.


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 9, 2022)

Each show has its own local rules, as well as abiding by the State Rules.  You need a copy of the State Rules anyway, but the individual show entry catalog classes should tell you the requirements for each class.  Some Pee Wee classes may allow a younger sibling to do showmanship with a family member's animal for fun and practice.  Fairs with premium money prizes are very strict.  However, often breed shows put on by the specific breed association include classes with more relaxed rules to get the children involved.  They hope to get more youth participation because it is good for the breed.

If you don't have registered animals, look for "Grade" classes to enter.  Many shows, particularly youth shows, offer grade classes.  Grade classes are for animals that are not registered.  Kids with "grade" entries are eligible for showmanship as well since the showmanship class is being judged on how well the child presents the animal, the grooming & cleanliness of the animal (and child), rather than conformation of the animal.


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 10, 2022)

Margali said:


> I just joined a Texas Show Goat & Sheep group on FB. Hopefully they are kind with questions.


Most show organizations and breeders are very kind to beginners since they are trying to encourage entries and participation.  Putting on livestock shows is a lot of work and these people do it for love since shows cost lots of money to put on and often run at a loss or barely break even.  Feel free to ask any and all questions - no one will make you feel bad about it.  Tell them you are just starting out and need help understanding the catalog and the entries.  They will help you.  The FFA Alumni show is a case in point.  They probably don't have a large organization since they may be affiliated with a particular school.  Future Farmers of America is usually in schools, where 4-H is an organization whose members are primarily independent members from the community.  Most breed societies have youth divisions with activities for members under 18.

Even Fairs have a budget for premium money (monetary awards per class usually payable up to 3rd place) that is based on entry size.  When we had our local Fair and wanted more dairy goat show entries, I had to scare up the premium money myself by getting donations from organizations, etc.  I started as soon as the Fair ended sending out begging letters for the next year.  We were able to get money for class premiums and also gift certificates, mugs, books, etc. from various organizations that were handed out as trophies.  Lot of work, but worth it to make sure we had a youth dairy goat show with enough entries.  Our dairy goat show became very popular.  

Premiums (prize money awards) are only awarded in breeding classes.  Market classes don't offer premiums since the kids sell their project animals at the Youth Auction.  Kids selling market animals are encouraged to send out letters to various businesses to obtain bidders/buyers for their animals. The more bidders the more $$ the animals bring.  In the Youth Auctions often you can put "add ons" on specific animals to give the kids a bit more money.  Since the Youth Auction is usually run through the Youth Booster club and has non-profit status, the amount you add on is tax deductible.  In fact, if you buy an animal at a Youth Auction you will be paying a lot more than the market price for that meat animal. Whatever you pay _over the current market price for that species_ is also tax deductible since it is considered a donation to the child through the non-profit Youth Auction.   

Breeding shows at Fairs are usually open to youth exhibitors from outside the area, but the market animal divisions are strictly limited to youth residing in the county or Agricultural District putting on the Fair.  This is because there are a limited number of buyers for the market animals and if outside-the-area youth were allowed to bring in animals to the auction the prices would drop for the resident kids since outside-the-area kids don't usually bring any buyers with them.  Wouldn't be fair to the resident kids.


----------



## Margali (Aug 10, 2022)

@Ridgetop Thank you for all your advice!


----------



## Ridgetop (Aug 10, 2022)

Have fun!  
Let us all know where and when Cassandra is showing.  If we are in Texas we will come and cheer for her.


----------



## Margali (Oct 29, 2022)

Just arriving to Cassandra's first show in Stephenville. Last night's ER trip screwed up our schedule. Cassandra will be doing showmanship and costume contest.


----------



## Margali (Oct 29, 2022)

We got there late but made the Junior showmanship class. Cassandra did okay, kept control of Mocha. She got nice comments from Judge, winning girl and fist bump from a grownup.


----------



## Margali (Oct 29, 2022)

We also have Bruno along. He freaked out when we loaded Mocha and followed us for close to a mile. 🤷‍♀️


----------



## SageHill (Oct 29, 2022)

Margali said:


> Just arriving to Cassandra's first show in Stephenville. Last night's ER trip screwed up our schedule. Cassandra will be doing showmanship and costume contest.


Good luck Cassandra - have fun and do well !!!


----------



## Margali (Oct 29, 2022)

She had tons of fun. Got several questions about what kind of sheep Mocha was. And a random offer to buy her.


----------



## Baymule (Oct 29, 2022)

She looks so serious showing her sheep! Love the costume! Mocha makes a pretty unicorn! I’m glad Cassandra had such a great time.


----------



## Margali (Oct 30, 2022)

SHOW SUMMARY:
Junior Showmanship- Did not place. Nice comment from winning girl. Judge said "she needed to push more". She was doing the bear hug around the neck vs show head nicely.
Costume Contest- Had fun and got participation candy. The youngest entrant dressed as Sheriff Woody won.



There were some teenagers with awesome technical costumes. How do you get a sheep to walk with sheet over it's head?!


Everyone at event was super nice. Didn't mind answering "what class entered" kind of comments. Only nice or curious comments about Katahdin sheep. I don't know if difference was me being harried new event mom or location but it was GREAT.


----------



## farmerjan (Oct 30, 2022)

I know little to nothing about showing sheep or goats or even cattle.  BUT I do know the prep for showing my horse years ago and showing chickens and so I know it is ALOT of work.  I think it is great that she took this seriously, and that she had fun too.  It is supposed to be fun, even when nerve wracking.  
So glad that you got lots of help and that people answered all the "newbie" questions you had.  
You and Cassandra are on your way.  In the process, you will be showcasing the Katahdin breed which is a big plus.  And their nice calm dispositions always helps.  

CONGRATS  to BOTH of you... and the rest of the family for the support in the background !!!!!
Hope the little guy's eye and all heals up fine.


----------



## Margali (Oct 30, 2022)

Here is how I made the costume. You need a halter to assign to costume. I made this in under two days.

I purchased 2in wide acrylic ribbon to match sheep coat color, a unicorn horn headband, 2 skeins of variegated yarn, and buttonhole thread. Another roll of ribbon to match kids outfit would have been great.

Headpiece:
* Start with ribbon twice as long from forehead to neck with a bit extra.
* Pry stuffed horn off head band. If it's only glued together, whipstitch seams before continuing.

* Cut pieces of hair by wrapping around box and cutting. Forelock needs to be short enough to not get in eyes.
* Find spot approx 1/3 down ribbon and stitch forelock hair on. Do this by making knot around middle of ~3 strands of yarn hair. Do about 1/2in before horn placement, skip width of horn base and continue to between  ears (measure against sheep's head). I put about 4 bunches of 3 strands per row spaced 1/4in apart.

*The hair behind the ears was much longer and spaced about 1in apart. I also sewed hair down at 2/3 point not midway. This gave me 2 length which made volume.

* Attach horn to empty spot on ribbon.
*To finish, fold ribbon so smooth piece coveres the knots. Do rows of stitches thru both layers to make loop/channel at front, where halter behind ear band, base of neck, and very end. I only had time for 1 row and several stitches popped. *Reinforce with several rows!*
* Front loop down to noseband was done with embroidery string which snapped. A better option would ne a narrower ribbon matching kid outfit.
*Slide ribbon thru slot at base of neck and tie in bow. This was hair colored but matching kid outfit would have been better.


Tail hair was done same way but she hated it and it didn't stay straight. I will need to come up with new method.


----------



## Margali (Oct 30, 2022)

Videos
WARNING EXTREME SHAKY CAM!
Junior Shownmanship 



Costume Contest


----------



## Margali (Oct 30, 2022)

@Show Sebright @ShowsheenQueen @Ridgetop Any tips to get Mocha to quiet down? She handled well except for when tail costume broke. She just talked the WHOLE TIME.


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Oct 30, 2022)

Margali said:


> @Show Sebright @ShowsheenQueen @Ridgetop Any tips to get Mocha to quiet down? She handled well except for when tail costume broke. She just talked the WHOLE TIME.


Take her where she can't see or hear any of her friends every day


----------



## Ridgetop (Oct 31, 2022)

Don't worry about Mocha vocalizing in the ring.  A lot of sheep bawl in the show ring since they are being taken away from flock and pen mates.  

Cassandra did a great job in showmanship for both for both her and Mocha's first time in a show ring.  She walked a little fast, *BUT NOT HER FAULT* since little boy behind her was crowding up on her.  There are tricks to avoid this which she will learn.  Holding Mocha's head still without hanging onto her by the neck will be easier if she trains Mocha to stand quietly in her halter whie being held on lead.  If Mocha eats treats (animal crackers) Cassandra can carry a handful (or more) into the ring in a pocket or treat pouch and feed her a bit of cookie every so often t keep her standing still.  If you make Cassandra a treat bag to hang around her waist she can carry the cookies in that.  If Cassandra wears it on her waist on the right side (the side next to Mocha in the ring) Mocha might follow the scent of the cookies.  Be sure to practice this at home since you don't want Mocha knocking into Cassandra to try to get at the crackers as Cassandra is walking around the ring.  LOL

How old is Cassandra again?  I think for her first time ever showing a sheep, she did very well indeed.  Mocha looked very well groomed, and Cassandra looked like she was having a good time.  Mocha did not escape from Cassandra, try to run around the ring yanking Cassandra over, rear up and try to jump away, throw herself to the ground and refuse to move, or any of the other crazy things that can happen when showing sheep.  Not to mention my favorites, peeing on it's the owner or worse the judge!

As she works with Mocha the ewe will get calmer and Cassandra will gain confidence in handling.  She does not have to "Push" the sheep per se.  Instead, she can learn to walk her lamb/ewe into position with the rear legs placed properly.  Then she only has to move the front legs into position.  At the moment Cassandra is small to be able to handle and stack both ends of the sheep by herself, so the above method might work well for her.    In a breeding class she can have another person help her move the back legs, but since she is handling on her own, moving the sheep into a stance where the rear legs are ok then placing the front legs correctly by hand while the sheep stands still will be easier for her.  The "Push" refers to placing a gentle backward push against the sheep to make it brace its muscle against the pushing of the handler.  This makes the sheep lean into the pose.  This will only work if the sheep has been taught to stand absolutely still otherwise the sheep will step backwards and ruin the pose.  One way to teach the sheep or lamb to lean into the stance is to practice stacking it on a straw bale or a platform at least 12" tall.  If the sheep moves around or backs up it falls off the platform. Sheep don't like that so the sheep will learn to freeze into position when being stacked.

If you can obtain an old mirror wardrobe door (the full height sliding kind) you can prop it against a wall where Cassandra practices her showmanship.   That way the reflection will show her what the sheep looks like as the judge will see it and then she can see what the proper showmanship stance looks like from her perspective next to the sheep.   Remember the person handling the sheep can't see it from the side as the judge looks at it.  When you are stacking any animal, you have to know what it looks like based on the way you see the animal which is from your standing position looking down at it.  You can probably find a used mirror door at Habitat for Humanity.  

Cassandra did great and I loved her unicorn costume!


----------



## Margali (Oct 31, 2022)

Thank you for all the feedback! Cassandra turned 6 years old in August. We also haven't worked much with Mocha in last month due to be being sick.


----------



## Baymule (Oct 31, 2022)

That girl is a champion!


----------



## Show Sebright (Oct 31, 2022)

Margali said:


> @Show Sebright @ShowsheenQueen @Ridgetop Any tips to get Mocha to quiet down? She handled well except for when tail costume broke. She just talked the WHOLE TIME.


Looks great. Try to keep the head up and the neck straight when you set her up. Keep practicing walking her. Also if the lamb isn’t walking then try too put your hand where the throat and the head meet. I jammed my hand into that little spot and I tap on the back of his head/neck. That got him to start walking. Maybe slap the side of the lamb as you walk. I do that with my lamb too.


----------



## Ridgetop (Oct 31, 2022)

At only 6 years old Cassandra did beautifully!  I have seen teenagers not able to control their lambs as well as she did.  How long will she be able to show Mocha in your shows?  At what age will the ewe need to stop showing?  Most breed sheep shows only have classes up to yearling.


----------



## Margali (Nov 1, 2022)

Ridgetop said:


> At only 6 years old Cassandra did beautifully!  I have seen teenagers not able to control their lambs as well as she did.  How long will she be able to show Mocha in your shows?  At what age will the ewe need to stop showing?  Most breed sheep shows only have classes up to yearling.


For showmanship, Mocha can be used as long as we want. Regarding actual showing classes, the issue will be breed not age. The 2023 San Antonio lists Lamb, 2Teeth, and Aged classes for registered breeding sheep. The rules names breeds with Dorper and White Dorper being only hair sheep listed.


----------



## Baymule (Nov 1, 2022)

You might have to get rules changed to allow Katahdin sheep.


----------



## purplequeenvt (Nov 1, 2022)

See if they have any All Other Breeds (AOB) classes. That’s the class they’d stick all the sheep they don’t have enough of to show as their own breed.


----------



## Show Sebright (Nov 1, 2022)

Margali said:


> For showmanship, Mocha can be used as long as we want. Regarding actual showing classes, the issue will be breed not age. The 2023 San Antonio lists Lamb, 2Teeth, and Aged classes for registered breeding sheep. The rules names breeds with Dorper and White Dorper being only hair sheep listed.


Most shows will easily add your sheep, just ask.


----------



## farmerjan (Nov 1, 2022)

For 6 years old I think she did VERY VERY GOOD.  As @Ridgetop  said, she did not lose control, Mocha did not buck or jump or do anything really dumb... except for the stalling during the costume class, she really did much better than I would have expected.  
KUDOS to Cassandra, and to you, for helping her get this far already.


----------



## Margali (Nov 13, 2022)

Another show next weekend. I did some digging and several counties near us have "hair sheep" vs Dorper as the category. The Arkansas State Fair even has a Katahdin breeding class!

All the rule books say sheep must be slick sheared to the hocks. Will doing that destroy a sheep's hair coat like on a dogs double coat? I'm okay with shearing for event if it will grow back correctly...


----------



## Baymule (Nov 13, 2022)

I think I’d call the KHSI and ask. I wouldn’t want to mess up an opportunity to show in a Katahdin class because of Mocha being shaved. I’d call them first, then call other show venues and tell them your findings. Then, do you stay true to your breed or follow non-Katahdin show rules?


----------



## purplequeenvt (Nov 13, 2022)

Don’t slick shave them. You may not place as well in the classes, but Katahdins are shown undocked and unslicked. You need to show according to the breed standard. 

It may take a few years to educate people, but they’ll get there.


----------



## Show Sebright (Nov 13, 2022)

Margali said:


> Another show next weekend. I did some digging and several counties near us have "hair sheep" vs Dorper as the category. The Arkansas State Fair even has a Katahdin breeding class!
> 
> All the rule books say sheep must be slick sheared to the hocks. Will doing that destroy a sheep's hair coat like on a dogs double coat? I'm okay with shearing for event if it will grow back correctly...


I say listen to every about showing with hair. But the hair will grow back just fine. The middle school shaved them over the summer and they seem fine.


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Nov 14, 2022)

Margali said:


> Another show next weekend. I did some digging and several counties near us have "hair sheep" vs Dorper as the category. The Arkansas State Fair even has a Katahdin breeding class!
> 
> All the rule books say sheep must be slick sheared to the hocks. Will doing that destroy a sheep's hair coat like on a dogs double coat? I'm okay with shearing for event if it will grow back correctly...


It will grow back just fine but I've only seen katahdins show with all the hair on them still like @purplequeenvt said


----------



## Ridgetop (Nov 15, 2022)

Don't shear if Mocha has shed out.  You only need to shear if she is carrying wool.  

Back in the day    all sheep were shown in full wool.  That fluffy wool can be "sculpted" on wool sheep to give a better appearance.   I have done it on long coated breeds of dogs when showing.  Take a little off here and there and a mediocre animal can look like a champion.  A good judge can tell structure when they feel the animal, but that first look in the ring and as the animals parade around is what you go for.  Most wooled breeds are shown shorn now, although I am not sure if some of the fine wooled breeds are still shown in the wool.  It depends on the breed standard and the points given for each attribute in the breed.  If points are allocated for wool then the sheep would be shown in wool.

Back to the Katahdins.  Since your breed is a hair breed, and hopefully has shed all her wool you should not have to shear.  Do the rules specify "shaved" or "shorn"?  Dairy goats are shown shaved which means taking off the hair to give a sleek appearance (some Alpine breeds are pretty hairy).  However, if the specification is for "shorn" then it means taking off the wool not the hair.  Some dairy goat shows in cold winter areas will allow the goats to be shown "natural" due to the cold weather when they go back to the barn "naked".  LOL  

Check with the show but if Mocha has shed her wool and is only carrying hair, don't bother to shear her.  Just bathe her and clip any stray hairs to give a clean and seek appearance.  Trim and clean hooves.  You can oil the hooves lightly to make them shine but too much oil will pick up shavings or sand so . . . .  If you use "Show Sheen" coat spray, make sure not to leave the hair oily.  Better to spray it o a rag and go over her body with the oily rag.


----------



## Ridgetop (Nov 15, 2022)

Can't wait for pix from the next show!   OMG!  I feel like a grandmother with her granddaughter in 4-H again!  Cassandra can be my DGD4!     No 4-H or Fair in our area anymore.


----------



## Margali (Nov 15, 2022)

The first show we may enter is The Chisholm Trail National Breeding Sheep Show. Page 12 of the Premium book says ORB (Other Registered Breeds) are shown according to their breed standard. The show is in Taylor Texas January 19 - 21st.

@Baymule Do you think one of your grands would like to show? We could have a katahdin class of 2!  @Ridgetop ChisholmTrail is mainly a Dorper organization.


----------



## purplequeenvt (Nov 16, 2022)

One of the Katahdin classes at NAILE. 




Dorpers are shown docked and clipped, but I think a lot of Dorpers don’t shed out as well as most Katahdins.


----------



## Mini Horses (Nov 16, 2022)

Looks like a nice class!


----------



## Ridgetop (Nov 17, 2022)

Dorpers are shown shorn.  Katahdins are just shown in their hair without shearing.  If you wish you might be able to tidy up the hair coat although I would look up the show standard before doing any shaving.  

Many Dorpers will shed clean, but it is not a requirement for the breed like it is for Katahdins before registration.  Dorpers do not have to be inspected before registration.  Most registered Dorpers will retain a  "mohawk" strip of wool down their spine.  This protects them from sunburn.  The wool pattern in Dorpers cannot extend below the lower flank.  The lower belly, must be clean in a straight line from elbow to stifle. Head, face, and under areas must be clean of wool.  However the Dorper cannot be a complete hair sheep either. There must be evidence of wool in the specified areas.  The Dorper standard is more about meat than shedding.


 
 row of photos are:
Left - Yearling ewe shorn for show.  This is a Grade 5 ewe (top quality) also the ewe I lost this summer because she had a twisted lamb that I could not pull.   Right - Yearling ram shorn for show (this is the type pf meaty butt I try to get on all my lambs)  
Midde row of pix:   Left - Group of ewes showing various degrees of shed.  All these shedding patterns are acceptable in registered Dorper breeding animals.  Right - unshorn ram with acceptable shedding pattern wearing tupping harness.
Bottom row:   Left -  2 year old ewe showing good shedding pattern.  Right - Group of 2, 3, and 4 year old ewes showing various degrees of shed.

1/3 of our flock sheds completely clean, while the other 2/3 of the flock carries wool in varying degrees like pix above.  Only 2 out of the 40 have limited shedding and their wool pattern is acceptable.  I have been breeding for a complete shed, but was told last summer by the South African judge/inspector that some wool on top of the body is desired in South Africa because of sunburn.  She also said that due to the type of rough and thorny country the sheep have to travel in to graze that they prefer some wool covering to protect the skin from thorns.  Since the South African and Australian commercial Dorper breeders have a good market for the sheepskins, naturally they want to protect the hides.  When having your flock evaluated and inspected by the licensed inspector you cannot shear in any way.  The inspectors need to see the sheep in their "natural" state.


----------



## Ridgetop (Nov 17, 2022)

BTW, show sheep come into a show slightly overweight.  They are grained or given supplements to increase their condition and appearance for the show ring.  If you buy a sheep at a show auction, expect your new purchase to shed a few lbs.   As long as they keep a condition score of 3 for breeding, they are healthy.

Most Katahdins I have seen are not as heavy appearing as that NAILE class.  Heavy is good for the show ring, but not as good in the breeding pen.  The magic score is 3 for breeding.  Overly heavy ewes and rams don't breed as well. Overly fat rams can't get up the effort.  Overly fat ewes store fat in deposits in their interior organs which can lessen their eggs during ovulation.  Too thin bad.  Too fat bad.


----------



## purplequeenvt (Nov 18, 2022)

Apparently I can pick a winner. I picked out one of the ewes from one of the Katahdin classes. She ended up winning her class, she was picked as senior champion ewe (picked between yearling ewes and fall ewe lambs), and champion ewe (picked between the senior champion and junior champion). On the last day of the show, they did the Supreme drives (all the champions of each breed are judged against each other) and she was chosen as the Supreme Champion ewe.


----------



## BrahmerQueen (Nov 19, 2022)

purplequeenvt said:


> Apparently I can pick a winner. I picked out one of the ewes from one of the Katahdin classes. She ended up winning her class, she was picked as senior champion ewe (picked between yearling ewes and fall ewe lambs), and champion ewe (picked between the senior champion and junior champion). On the last day of the show, they did the Supreme drives (all the champions of each breed are judged against each other) and she was chosen as the Supreme Champion ewe.


Wow they picked a katahdin as the supreme ewe?! Definitely something you don't see every day😂


----------



## Baymule (Nov 19, 2022)

Yup, you know your sheep! I bet she was beautiful!


----------



## Ridgetop (Nov 19, 2022)

Congratulations!  

You can learn so much from livestock shows.  By watching the shows and trying to place the class in winning order, listening as the judge tells everyone what they need to be looking for, and seeing how you placed the animals correctly or otherwise is a lot of fun.  Several years of attending shows, seminars, etc. teaches you a surprising amount about structure and condition.  One reason why I love livestock shows!


----------

