# Doe not laying in nesting box



## MarkRahn (Mar 8, 2016)

We have a doe that we have breed 3 times. The first kit ended in miscarriage. The second and third were born outside nesting box and all died. This 3rd time she did finally pull out a good amount of fur but noting was in the nesting box. Any suggestions on how we should handle this so in the future so this does not happen? How can we train her to use her nesting box?


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## Latestarter (Mar 8, 2016)

Greetings @MarkRahn from the front range in Colorado  Welcome to BYH, glad you joined us. We have quite a few active bunny folks and I'm sure some will be along shortly to say HI and help with your question... This post would have probably been better placed in the rabbit section under: http://www.backyardherds.com/forums/birthing-weaning-and-raising-young-rabbits.85/ I'm not a bunny person (yet) but just to clarify:

You have a doe you have bred 3 times and she has kindled (had kits) 3 times. The first pregnancy (kindle) ended with miscarriage of the kits. The 2nd time she kindled on the wire (outside the nesting box) and all the kits died. I'm assuming from your post that she never pulled fur on either of the first 2. On this most recent, her 3rd kindle, she again had the kits outside the box but did pull fur, but once again all kits died. Did the kits from kindle #2 & #3 look healthy? Did they die from cold/exposure? did the doe kill them? Did the doe come into milk?

Some other info that might be pertinent is; age of the doe, health/weight, breed, cage size/area available, nesting box size... I'll tag a few folks who may be able to help: @BlessedWithGoats @goatgurl @Samantha drawz @Bunnylady @Shorty @Pastor Dave and there are quite a few others. I hope they can provide some guidance/help for you.


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## samssimonsays (Mar 8, 2016)

Unfortunately some does are just not mother material but I was suggested to breed back to back until they get it. I always gave 4 consecutive tries (4 days after birth if they killed them or did something wrong and lost them all was when I would rebreed) and if they didn't get it by then, they were gone. I have put them in a solid bottom cage with lots of hay to avoid the wire and them getting drafts if born out of the nesting box and solid bottomed dog kennels with my French Lops worked wonderfully so long as I had placed a smaller gauged wire on the sides about 5 inches taller than where the hay lined to keep the kits in.


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## BlessedWithGoats (Mar 8, 2016)

Welcome to Backyard Herds!!
I'm by no means an expert on rabbits yet, and I think @Latestarter brought up some good points! Do you know if the kits were staying warm enough?  Was the momma feeding them? I think they usually feed 1-2 times per day; if you feel the kits' bellies, they should be kinda round if she's feeding them well.


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## Ponker (Mar 8, 2016)

Some does are just not mother oriented. One of my does had her babies on the wire and I didn't find them until they were all dead. The other doe kindled in the box and raised all nine, np... first time moms, the both. 

These are registered American Chinchilla Rabbits so I'm hoping that Zsa Zsa will mother well next time. I have two unrelated breeding pair and then a couple of other mutts who grow fast and big. Next time with Zsa Zsa I will keep a sharp eye on her and check every couple of hours so if she's kindling on the wire, I can catch it. maybe if she is being a bad momma, I can coach her into success.

Breed your rabbit back again like Samantha drawz suggested. Watch closely, and if you can't coach her into being a good momma... its either keep her as a pet, or freezer camp.


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## Pastor Dave (Mar 8, 2016)

Welcome to BYH!
I agree with what both Samantha and Ponker has said. I can't think of anything much more to add.
I have a doe that the week leading up to placing the nest box, tries to build a nest in the corner.
It is a good indication she is close to being due. As soon as the nest box goes in with its materials, she is right in it making a nest.
I would breed her back again, and if she just won't kindle correctly in the box, keep her as a pet, find a home for her, or freezer camp.


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## goatgurl (Mar 8, 2016)

welcome to byh from arklahoma.  I second, third and forth what Samantha, Ponker and Pastor Dave said.  i'd try a solid floored hutch first and if the forth time is also a fail I would kiss her little nose goodby.   I have been very fortunate that my does are good mamas so have not had this problem but as with my goats or sheep I basically give them 3 chances and then they are gone


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## Gemmer (Mar 8, 2016)

MarkRahn said:


> We have a doe that we have breed 3 times. The first kit ended in miscarriage. The second and third were born outside nesting box and all died. This 3rd time she did finally pull out a good amount of fur but noting was in the nesting box. Any suggestions on how we should handle this so in the future so this does not happen? How can we train her to use her nesting box?





Pastor Dave said:


> Welcome to BYH!
> I agree with what both Samantha and Ponker has said. I can't think of anything much more to add.
> I have a doe that the week leading up to placing the nest box, tries to build a nest in the corner.
> It is a good indication she is close to being due. As soon as the nest box goes in with its materials, she is right in it making a nest.
> I would breed her back again, and if she just won't kindle correctly in the box, keep her as a pet, find a home for her, or freezer camp.


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## Gemmer (Mar 9, 2016)

I also raise dogs and am used to the extra help they sometimes need during whelp.
One of my ND does kicks the newborn kits out, so I intervened. I found them, 2 lasted a few days but the one I found in time, I kept ina nest box with her pulled fur, and put her in the nest box w/the kit several times a day. It was cold then, so kept him near but not too close to a puppy lamp.
I know that is a lot of trouble, but like many dwarf breeds of animal, it is more difficult to raise quality young.
Anyway  Im glad I did because I have to PTS his sire who has a terrific personality (important if they end up a companion animal, really ;-) . ND s are known for not being calm or sweet. Many fine looking show specimens are nasty (much like show dogs).
Just my $.02
Gemm


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## Bunnylady (Mar 9, 2016)

Welll . . . . they can't be but _so_ nasty; a judge can (and will) DQ a rabbit for being vicious. Frankly, when that rule was instituted, I thought it was long overdue. But I agree, Dwarfs can be nasty, which is why I make personality one of the criteria that I breed for. I have had some gorgeous animals vote themselves out of the gene pool by being cranky. Annoying, but a certain amount of personality is inheritable, and I want to do everything I can to avoid producing one of those rabbits that you hear about injuring a small child.

If I have a litter that I am almost desperate to get, a couple of days before she's due, I will put the doe and her nest box in a carrier, and put them in my hall closet (I jokingly call it my "maternity ward"). That way, she's close at hand but not constantly disturbed by household activity. I put lots of extra hay in the carrier just in case the doe kindles outside of the box. Yes, I know, that much disturbance can upset a doe, but I figure it's worth the risk - the chances of losing the litter are probably greater if I leave her in the rabbitry. Amazingly, most of my does go right on and do what they are supposed to as far as cleaning the kits up, pulling fur, etc. There have been some losses, of course, but I can't say that they wouldn't have been lost anyway (kits that are too big are too big, no matter where their mother was when she kindled). If the doe does kindle outside of the box, I put the kits and the nest in the box. Once her babies are in the box, the doe usually figures out that's what it's for, and she will use it on subsequent litters. I have had a few dopey does that don't seem to know that they are supposed to nurse their litters; putting them in the nest box and putting the box in a carrier that is only slightly larger than the box has helped me teach quite a few does about the job of motherhood.


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## MarkRahn (Mar 12, 2016)

Latestarter said:


> Greetings @MarkRahn from the front range in Colorado  Welcome to BYH, glad you joined us. We have quite a few active bunny folks and I'm sure some will be along shortly to say HI and help with your question... This post would have probably been better placed in the rabbit section under: http://www.backyardherds.com/forums/birthing-weaning-and-raising-young-rabbits.85/ I'm not a bunny person (yet) but just to clarify:
> 
> You have a doe you have bred 3 times and she has kindled (had kits) 3 times. The first pregnancy (kindle) ended with miscarriage of the kits. The 2nd time she kindled on the wire (outside the nesting box) and all the kits died. I'm assuming from your post that she never pulled fur on either of the first 2. On this most recent, her 3rd kindle, she again had the kits outside the box but did pull fur, but once again all kits died. Did the kits from kindle #2 & #3 look healthy? Did they die from cold/exposure? did the doe kill them? Did the doe come into milk?
> 
> Some other info that might be pertinent is; age of the doe, health/weight, breed, cage size/area available, nesting box size... I'll tag a few folks who may be able to help: @BlessedWithGoats @goatgurl @Samantha drawz @Bunnylady @Shorty @Pastor Dave and there are quite a few others. I hope they can provide some guidance/help for you.



Thank you very much for the welcome and posting advice. I am new to the forum posting/interweb stuff so it is always a learning experience for me. Hey, I learned something new today even at my age. And thank you for the tags(?) to fellow members of this forum. We are new with the rabbit raising and have many things to learn

Thanks again
Mark


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