# copasure dosage



## treeclimber233 (Jul 26, 2012)

Today I finally got my copasure and valbazen.  How do I measure the proper dosage of the copasure?   By weight on a scale?  Eyeball it?  Dose by the weight they are now or the weight they should be?  My sickest (thinest) doe is probably 50# underweight  according to the vet.  Another one is getting thin now too with no other symptoms.  (Well except an extremely swollen face--maybe bee sting.  Not bottlejaw.  Whole face and neck swollen like a balloon. going down today. really weird)  Each capsule contains 12.5 g copper oxide particles.  I am guessing the smallest doe weighs 50#.  So I figure she should get 2.5 grams?


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## autumnprairie (Jul 26, 2012)

here is the page on Copasure http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-copasure

Valbazen can cause abortions in bred does if you didn't know


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## babsbag (Jul 26, 2012)

Yes that dosage is what I would give for that weight. I weigh mine on a scale that does grams, but I guess you could eyeball it as well. 

I have a friend that comes and doses them for me with a bolus gun, she had a plastic one. My goats ate it.   I need to buy her a metal one before we do it again. We put the copper in gelatin capsules then used peanut butter to hold them in the gun while she crammed them as far back in her mouth as she could. Not a fun job. I have tried to hide them in marshmellow, didn't work. I tried sprinkling on grain, didn't work well. I tried just using my finger in their mouth; that was successful but dangerous. 

Whoever said that goats will ear anything never owned one. They only eat what THEY want, never what WE want.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 26, 2012)

I think I read on here that someone mixed it in molasses and just gave it that way.  I know I can get it in my one doe that way.  She will try to eat anything I have in my hands when I go to the barn.  Not a problem to drench her.  She tries to eat the drencher.  I mixed up a float solution to do fecals today.  I wanted to do a fecal before and after the copasure treatment but my doe did not cooperate and give me a fresh sample.


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## elevan (Jul 26, 2012)

If you want to do a fecal after the copasure then you want to wait about a week to get an accurate count.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 27, 2012)

We used to just give it as a bolus, but it is an overwhelming job. Last time we cut the end off a 6cc syringe, poured in 2 cc of mollasses, poured in the measured copper rods, then poured in more mollasses and put it as far back in their mouth as possible. Seemed to work pretty well.

we just tried mixing it in mollasses and drawing it up in a 60cc syringe, but the copper rods, sink to the bottom and separated out.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 27, 2012)

Good to know the rods will seperate out and I need to mix molasses and rods in the syringe.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 27, 2012)

treeclimber233 said:
			
		

> Good to know the rods will seperate out and I need to mix molasses and rods in the syringe.


Have to cut the whole end of the syringe, at the point it gets the widest. Don't dry to dose it through the little hole that you put a needle on, even with out the needle, the copasure rods will separate out and just get stuck in the syringe. And we didn't mix the molasses with the rods, we just layered it.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 28, 2012)

I just did my first fecal.  got a fresh speciman this morning.  Did the copper blouse on two does.  I only saw three eggs but then again it is my first try.  I will do this again in 10 days and see what I find.  But with the seemingly light worm load my goat seems to have why would she still have loose stools?  They are shaped like a cow pile now not real runny like they were.  And she is not gaining any weight and her eyelids are still white.  The others eyelids are pinking up.


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## Renegade (Jul 28, 2012)

Coccidia.

We have a 2yr old doe that came home from being bred that had pudding poop. Dewormed her with Cydectin since she was off the farm for about a month. When she continued to have loose stool we did a fecal and were floored to see she was full of coccidia. We treated her accordingly and her stools were normal within 48hrs.

Donna


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 29, 2012)

Very likely coccidiosis. I would also consider tapeworms.


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## elevan (Jul 29, 2012)

Tapeworms wouldn't cause the anemia though.  I'd definitely suspect coccidia .


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 29, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> Tapeworms wouldn't cause the anemia though.  I'd definitely suspect coccidia .


Good point, I didn't catch on to the anemia.


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## mully (Jul 29, 2012)

Mix some molasses with corn meal and a little flour make a small "meatball" then mix the copper rods into the meatball The goats will eat this with gusto and it is a no fuss method.  Be aware that they will be looking for more.


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## WhiteMountainsRanch (Jul 29, 2012)

*I mixed my copasure with karo syrup and spread it on their favorite leaf... they sucked them down like there was no tomorrow.*


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 29, 2012)

When the vet did the fecal they saw no cocci.  She has been wormed for tapeworms.  I had no trouble getting the rods in either doe.  I am completely stumped as is my vet.  I don't think it is cocci because none of my babies showed any symptoms at all of dirreaha.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 30, 2012)

I would send in a fecal to a state lab or college lab that does more to test than just a fecal float. You may find other worms that never show up on a fecal float. A good example is that while your garden variety coccidia will show up on the fecal that the local vet does, Eimeria macusaniensis (aka EMAC) which is also a type of coccidia will not. When I have sent in stool samples to the Ohio State Lab, I have gotten back some very interesting results that were never seen from the local vet fecal test.


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## Renegade (Jul 30, 2012)

You can send off a fecal but I would treat the goat for coccidia while you're waiting for results. You said this goat is aleady anemic. A sulfer drug is not going to hurt anything. If the vet's office didn't let the fecal sit long enough you won't find coccidia. (It takes longer for coccidia to float.)

Donna


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 30, 2012)

We had fecals done and it only showed a low level of bankrupt worms, not enough to be causing all the problems we were having. When we consulted wilth the vet. He didn't feel the fecal was dependable enough for coccidiosis results and adviced us to treat any way. We treated and the goats got better. I would advice treat for coccidiosis if htey aren't doing well and see what happens. You don't always get scours from coccidiosis.


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## ksalvagno (Jul 30, 2012)

20kids, did you have the fecals done at your vet or sent off to a state lab? I would like to stress that sending a fecal off to a state lab gives a much better picture of the worm load in your animals than the fecal done at the local vet. I know because I have done fecals in the past that were done at the vet office and also at the state lab and the state lab came up with more parasites than the local vet fecal found.


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## 20kidsonhill (Jul 30, 2012)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> 20kids, did you have the fecals done at your vet or sent off to a state lab? I would like to stress that sending a fecal off to a state lab gives a much better picture of the worm load in your animals than the fecal done at the local vet. I know because I have done fecals in the past that were done at the vet office and also at the state lab and the state lab came up with more parasites than the local vet fecal found.


ours were done at the state lab, it is 10 minutes down the road from us.


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## treeclimber233 (Jul 31, 2012)

I used to live about 37 miles north from you in Woodstock.  What is the address to the lab you use?  I contacted an out of state lab and they charge extra for out-of-staters.   The guy I talked to also was not very optomistic about my goat recovering (like it was going to be a waste of my time to test).  He was like " well it could be this but we need to run a test for a whole year".......and "well it could be that but we cant test for that until she dies"..... and I was thinking "why don't you just rain on my parade?"


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## Renegade (Jul 31, 2012)

List of VA state labs:

http://www.vdacs.virginia.gov/about/directory-ais.shtml 

You could also try a veterinary school if one is closer. Since they are teaching hospitals they tend to be better then your average veterinarian. Of course like everything else some are considerably better then others. We love Auburn (AL). They've been very good to us and reasonable considering we've had some really weird stuff happen this year.


HTH

Donna


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