# So what to feed this pregger goats?



## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 25, 2009)

hey all you organic goat lovers! (or likers)

we're pretty sure our full sized lamancha is preggers. we took her over for a date with the neighbor's buck in mid oct and she has not shown any signs of heat this month! i understand there is no other way to tell short of a blood test? is there a good 'natural' (and cheap!) way to tell?

is there anything special i should be feeding her? she has a mineral block, gets some bagged food, and we have nice hay. 

since i have all these apples i was wondering if they would be ok snacks? obviously i'm not going to give her a bucket full... but maybe half an apple a day??

our little minis ate just about everything and never had a problem.. but our milk gals got special treatment..and now that she is preggers (i hope!) i dont want to do anything wrong. 

suggestions on how to cater to a pregnant doe??


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## freemotion (Nov 25, 2009)

Were she mine, and I had a ton of apples, she would get worked up gradually to more if I could spare them.   My limit for fresh stuff is about 3-4 lbs a day, unless there is a dire need.  When I rescued a dangerously thin preggers goat, I worked her gradually....very gradually.... up to more like five pounds a day of fresh stuff, mostly rutabagas and pumpkins and carrots, because that is what I had to spare.  Just watch the poo for signs of clumpiness, if so, add probiotics or back off with the goodies.

When I have a lot of fresh stuff to feed, I run it through the food processor to chop it up.  I fill a two-gallon pail and put it in my fridge.  Right now I have two of these in my spare fridge, feeding five goats, trying to influence twinning.  Mostly pumpkins, some apples, and miscellaneous other veggies as available.

You probably already know that I add home-made probio's to my goat's food.  It is easy to add a little extra if any poo seems clumpy.  Actually, I haven't seen any clumpy poo in ages and ages.


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## freemotion (Nov 25, 2009)

Oh, and I would go with loose minerals and loose salt, to be sure she is able to get enough of what she needs.

I also sprout barley to increase the protein.  They love it.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 25, 2009)

thanks Free!  i was hoping you'd share your strategy!!  we have TONS of pumpkins... but then again... geez with the big shortage maybe i'd better keep them and sell them for like $100 each on EBAY!


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## FarmerChick (Nov 25, 2009)

yea those pumpkins are in demand now!  fields of pumpkins went rotten!



there is your money...pumpkin power!


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## freemotion (Nov 25, 2009)

Yep, and they aren't keeping well at all this year, so feed 'em up!  Go through them every 3 days or so and pull the worst ones out, cut out the bad spots, and feed the seeds and pulp first.  Those don't hold up well, even in the fridge.  Then run the rest through the slicer blade of the food processor and keep enough for two days or so in the fridge.  

It can be tough to keep up with the rotting, so be vigilant!  I also sniff over them daily, and look for dampness around them.  They can liquify so fast!  I store them on paper feed sacks and shavings bags that I save for this purpose, so the wet spots show up quickly and clean up is easier.  I have a "rotting pumpkin pail" that I use when I sort them, and keep it near the pumpkin stash for emergency pumpkin dumps.  Into the compost pile they go, and I toss a shovelful of compost on top so the goat's don't gorge on the good parts, so I can control how much each goat gets each day.  The chickens will still pick at the dirty pumpkins.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 25, 2009)

i love that you have a rotting pumpkin pail!!! thanks thanks thanks!

and yep i've decided to give up on cash and go all pumpkin!!! hee hee hee hee hee

i used to tell people i was putting all my money in chickens...but now i'm all about the pumpkin

;-)


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## freemotion (Nov 25, 2009)

I forgot to add.....sniff each pumpkin as you are cutting them up to feed.  They can look nice but be on the verge of "going," so let your nose tell you, too.  If they are picky about a batch, toss it into the compost.  Well-fed goats will get picky.  It's a good thing.  Only a starving or malnourished goat will eat rotting food, even if it is not noticable to us that it is spoiling.


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## kstaven (Nov 25, 2009)

freemotion said:
			
		

> Oh, and I would go with loose minerals and loose salt, to be sure she is able to get enough of what she needs.
> 
> I also sprout barley to increase the protein.  They love it.


Nice to see some one else who feeds sprouts to dairy animals. Ours have benefited greatly from this practice. Better biological availability of nutrients by doing it that way.


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## freemotion (Nov 25, 2009)

And they smell so yummy, too! 

My hens get them, too, once the bugs are no longer available.  It takes some protein to make eggs and milk.  And growing kids.  The sprouts are so digestible and as you said, the nutrients are more bioavailable, anti-nutrients are neutralized.  Win-win for the cost of some water.


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## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 26, 2009)

i'll look into the sprouts... as soon as i'm done sniffing my pumpkins!!!
;-)

actually i kinda got the idea to give her half of one of the jack-be-little pumpkins.. nice starter side and i have 3  50 pound bags of them!!!


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## FarmerChick (Nov 26, 2009)

my 3 giant pumpkins from the yard.

took them to the pasture and smashed open and goats ate all of them....every single seed and the rinds.   that herd pulverized those 3 pumpkins..LOL


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## freemotion (Nov 26, 2009)

Those little pumpkins keep a little longer, so save them if they look good now, and feed them last.  I have a gazillion of them in boxes in my cellar.  I have one empty box and once a week I transfer every darn tiny pumpkin from one box to the next, looking at all sides for suspicious colors or spots.  By the time I feed these seriously, there will be snow on the ground and the chickens will be interested, too, so I will put a pot of water on the wood stove and throw a bunch in.

We are always tripping over buckets, pails, and various other containers near my back kitchen door!


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## FarmerMack (Nov 29, 2009)

ohiofarmgirl said:
			
		

> hey all you organic goat lovers! (or likers)
> 
> suggestions on how to cater to a pregnant doe??


I was told by an experienced goat herder to give my pregnant doe some luke warm water with molasses in it for extra energy. She seemed to love as all the goats did. Just by organic molasses if there is such a thing


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## FarmerMack (Nov 29, 2009)

FarmerChick said:
			
		

> my 3 giant pumpkins from the yard.
> 
> took them to the pasture and smashed open and goats ate all of them....every single seed and the rinds.   that herd pulverized those 3 pumpkins..LOL


Pumpkin seeds are a natural wormer too. i noticed what the goats didnt eat the hens attacked in the end my pumpkins were nothing but small bits of orange remnants on in the dirt


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## FarmerChick (Nov 29, 2009)

LOL--hens on the attack.  Pumpkins don't have a chance do they> lol

Pine trees are good natural wormer also.  All my pines in the pastures are attacked constantly.  When we cut down like 4 giant pines, I threw them in the pasture and they stripped the bark bare.  Then I hauled out the tree skeletons.

I collect christmas trees from everyone and feed them...not the ones that are commercially sprayed though. My goats go thru those trees in a flash..lol...good winter treat for them.


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## FarmerChick (Nov 29, 2009)

FarmerMack said:
			
		

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good idea....when my does are about 3 weeks from kidding, I add sweet feed into their pellet ration.  Keeps ketosis at bay.   Preggo does use up their glucose stores quickly....so sugar in their system right before kidding is important actually.  Carrying twins, trips, quads, can sure tack their system fast and they die...that bit of sweet feed ensures they are getting what they need.


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## FarmerMack (Nov 29, 2009)

FarmerChick said:
			
		

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That is exactly what the herder told me. i didn't need anything but feed for milkers and the in the last 30 days of the pregnancy the molasses water.
Orion and lil Bo came out fine.


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## FarmerChick (Nov 29, 2009)

yea when I first bought 50 goats and bred them (not knowing too much and learning very fast) I had 3 does die.   Very very fast.  Fine one day, boom on the ground the next and dead within a day.  I had no idea why cause they were cared for very well.   Called the vet when another doe went down and he came and hit her with an IV of propolyene glycol and other stuff and she jacked right back up.  But he said usually they don't respond well at all and don't make it......well I never had any does die over the next 14 years of goat farming at kidding time.   I read up on ketosis and preg toxemia and all that and know how to fight that problem now.


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## PattiXmas (Nov 29, 2009)

Okay, now I am confused.  Is it okay to feed goats Sweet Feed and hay?  Our Sweet Feed isn't just strictly Sweet Feed - it's a mixture that our local feed store mixes up for dairy goats.  They make it for each "growing" level of goats and increase the protein.  Right now, we are feeding the feed that is recommended for pregnant or lactating goats.  Am I doing it wrong?  They get a few flakes of hay a day and about 4 scoops of the mixture a day.


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## FarmerMack (Nov 29, 2009)

FarmerChick said:
			
		

> yea when I first bought 50 goats and bred them (not knowing too much and learning very fast) I had 3 does die.   Very very fast.  Fine one day, boom on the ground the next and dead within a day.  I had no idea why cause they were cared for very well.   Called the vet when another doe went down and he came and hit her with an IV of propolyene glycol and other stuff and she jacked right back up.  But he said usually they don't respond well at all and don't make it......well I never had any does die over the next 14 years of goat farming at kidding time.   I read up on ketosis and preg toxemia and all that and know how to fight that problem now.


my first pregnant goat was mamma goat at 9 she had been pregnant every heat since the first or so i was told and she came to the farm with one male angora i bought... start slow i figured. mamma did well gave me 4 bucks 2 with my angora rasta goat . the second 2 had a sister but she was pushed away in the gorebal warming of a febuary night in New Hampshire and probably froze to death. I learn that female do that and it's most times a doe that gets shoved aside instead of a buck. solution is bottle feed the 3rd... lessons learned the hard way. still made me sad

a gentler gentler farmer


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## FarmerChick (Nov 29, 2009)

I only feed sweet feed 3 weeks before kidding time.
I flush them to provide extra glucose in the system for preggo does.

Are your does pregnant or lactacting right now?  If they are, then I guess you are fine feeding it, if they are not, then why feed it?  lol

After the kids are born goats do not require high levels of sugar in their system....actually it is needed when they are heavy pregnant...after they do not require that level of glucose once the kids are born.

After born, I go back to normal goat pellet chow and all does do fine.


(I have meat goats so I do not worry about milk production and feed to the level of what a dairy goat farmer would be feeding of course)


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## FarmerMack (Nov 29, 2009)

PattiXmas said:
			
		

> Okay, now I am confused.  Is it okay to feed goats Sweet Feed and hay?  Our Sweet Feed isn't just strictly Sweet Feed - it's a mixture that our local feed store mixes up for dairy goats.  They make it for each "growing" level of goats and increase the protein.  Right now, we are feeding the feed that is recommended for pregnant or lactating goats.  Am I doing it wrong?  They get a few flakes of hay a day and about 4 scoops of the mixture a day.


i was told by the same feed  as for a doe that you are milking, and give her molasses water. nothing else was needed. i continued both for both her and the kids after they were born for a few more months. mamma weaned herself of the molasses water within a week, figured she had more experience at it than i  LOL

everyone still alive and butting heads except one


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## FarmerMack (Nov 29, 2009)

FarmerChick said:
			
		

> I only feed sweet feed 3 weeks before kidding time.
> I flush them to provide extra glucose in the system for preggo does.
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> Are your does pregnant or lactacting right now?  If they are, then I guess you are fine feeding it, if they are not, then why feed it?  lol
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exactly... you say it better than i did though


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## FarmerChick (Nov 29, 2009)

FarmerMack said:
			
		

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One thing I learned over my many years of farming goats......Mommas will push aside a kid and not let it nurse---usually it is because their is something wrong with it.  Something medically/internally and usually not seen by us, but momma knows and she will push it aside and let the strong kids survive.  

This happened some times to me and mostly all kids pushed aside died rather quickly....there was something "just not right about them" and the doe knew this. 

I did bottle feed some pushed aside but they never lived very long...like up to 5-6 mos. and died "from something"  --some internal medical problem or something, I just don't know.

Momma goats know more than we could ever fathom.  They are doing the nature thing, pushing away a seeming healthy or runty kid  seems weird to us, but those does know more than we know..LOL


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## PattiXmas (Nov 29, 2009)

The does aren't lactating yet, only bred them in October.  We have been feeding this feed from the day we got them (only increased the protein as per the feed store as they grew).   So, is it okay?  If it's a matter of cost, it really isn't that much more expensive since we only have 2 goats currently.  I just don't want to feed them something that would be harmful to them and the babies.

Also, we were told that as soon as the kids are born, that we need to pull them from the mommas so that we don't have any damaged udders.  We plan on bottle feeding (obviously) the kids.  We know that we will need colostrum for the first feeding.  Would it be safe to milk out the does right after and give to the  babies or should we get some dried/frozen colostrum to have on hand?


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## ohiofarmgirl (Nov 29, 2009)

thanks FarmerMack for the molasses info! i'll give it a whirl. 

we give a little sweet feed with their dairy ration as it is.... so we are  good on that and will increase as we get closer.

there are a couple 16% sweet feed for goats out there. our breeder mixes his own - of course his animals are spectacular. 

i knew that pumpkin was a wormer for hogs but didnt know if it would work for the goaties. just another reason for me to haul myself out there and give her some!

our strategy for the babies is to leave them on the mommas for a couple of weeks. i've been trying like the dickens to understand why you'd bottle only - i know that people do this.. but it seems a little counter intuitive. i know that people have strong opinions about this.. but since this is the "organic' forum maybe there are more "leave with momma's" over here.

mine arent production nor show gals so maybe thats the difference??


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## freemotion (Nov 29, 2009)

The only reasons for pulling the babies that I have found are if the momma is CAE positive (a nasty goat disease spread via momma's milk), you can prevent the babies from having it by bottle feeding them right from the start if you are trying to develop a CAE-free herd from does that are not CAE-free.

The other reason would be if you want more control of the milk volume that the babies are getting and that you are getting.  Too much work for a bit more milk, for me, anyways.  

I plan to let my does nurse and I will milk, too, starting after 2-3 weeks, more or less depending on number of babies.


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## FarmerChick (Nov 29, 2009)

goat diary works the same as cow dairy.

pull kids or calves immediately....milk the momma and feed the bottle kids or calves the colostrom etc. from the momma to take all this out of her...then the animal is ready for FULL milk production, while you mix bagged powder milk supp for the babies.

Other than that reason, I don't know why people would pull the kids or calves from the parent.  Some people said they do it cause they want a tame adult, handled from birth etc.   hey whatever, ya know..lol


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## landis1659 (Jan 25, 2010)

I've been hearing about sprouts, what kind and how do I make them, what type of seeds do I use.  Thanks Pepper


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## Mini-M Ranch (Jan 25, 2010)

I just had a doe kid on Saturday with triplets. .  How LONG do you give her molasses water?  I gave her  about three quarts RIGHT after she delivered and she drank it all without stopping, then licked the bottom of the bucket, so I gave her another quart, which she drank half of, immediately.  Later, after some hay fell in it, I threw the rest out and got her plain water.  She did not drink it as well, of course, too boring.  Should she have more molasses water, or is that enough?  I'll give it to her everyday for a month if it helps! lol


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## freemotion (Jan 25, 2010)

landis1659 said:
			
		

> I've been hearing about sprouts, what kind and how do I make them, what type of seeds do I use.  Thanks Pepper


I sprout barley, mostly, and oats if I can't get the barley.  When the sprout is just emerging you will see a little bit of white sticking out of the end of each grain, about 1/16-1/8 inch, and this is when the protein level of the grain skyrockets.  This is very good for any critter that needs more protein...to build bodies, milk, kids....and solves the problem of soy for those of us wishing to avoid it.

You can also throw some BOSS in the mix, they sprout quite nicely.

If you add a glug of live culture whey with the first soak, the grain will be loaded with wonderful probiotics and will smell slighty sweet, like sweet yogurt.  Later, as other good bacteria proliferate, it will take on a slightly sour, but still pleasant, smell.  Both stages are good to feed.

I use a series of buckets to sprout in.  I have one that I put the grains into and fill it with water to an inch or two above the grain, and I add the whey.  If I don't have whey, I add a glug of apple cider vinegar.  This will make barley smell slightly like beer after a few days, still ok to feed.

Can you tell that I always use the sniff test??  

After soaking for about 24 hours, I transfer the grain to a bucket into which I have drilled many holes, small enough that an oat can't get stuck in it, clogging it.  I rinse the grain well with plain water and let it drain.  I have a sump hole with a pump in my cellar, so I set two boards over the hole and rinse with a length of hose right over the hole.

I rinse twice a day, and start feeding from the bucket when sprouts first are visible.  Then I start another bucket.  I often have three going...one soaking, one draining, and one that is almost empty.

This method does not bring the sprouts to the green grass stage, but does make them higher in nutrients that are very digestible.  Mini-M, my lactating doe AND my growing purchased doeling both stopped crying for more food when I started sprouting for them.  They still say, "Feed me!  Now!" but not with the same level of frantic in their voices.  You know what I am talking about!

A couple more tips....watch for mold, and toss any grain that gets moldy.  I had to learn how to avoid this, sprouting in my cellar.

You can only sprout whole grains that have not been heat-dried or crimped.  In some areas, these can be hard to find.  Last year was a wet year, and I am running into barley that was obviously heat-dried, and is not sprouting very well.  It takes several days, and not all of it sprouts.  But the soaking process still increases the bioavailability of the nutrients and gets rid of anti-nutrients that are present in all seeds.


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