# Help!  Sick Goat!  NEW UPDATE 9/15



## SkyWarrior (Sep 12, 2012)

Just as I was looking at my buck who has an intermittent cough, I found Heidi, one of my does listless.  She seemed a little quiet today, but I just chalked it up to being her.  Tonight her head is down, she feels HOT, and she's listlessly chewing her cud.  Her sister is able to push her around.  Not good.

I gave everyone their CDT vaccinations on 9/6 and yesterday I wormed everyone with Ivermectin.  I seem to recall her being a little quiet yesterday and not wanting to play with everyone, but I thought she was just being standoffish like she normally is.  

So, I gave her a shot of penicillin tonight.  Her poop is good.  Her color okay.  She's not drinking tons.  Her head is down and she seems to feel bad.  What should I do?


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 12, 2012)

Take her temp.   With no runny poop and as listless as she is, If she has an elevated temp. it is a good chance it is pnuemonia. Keep giving her penn G shots ever 8-12 hours. There are stronger antibiotics that your vet can give you, such as Baytril or Nuflor. 

If her temp. is not elevated or even low, then I would consdier coccidiosis as a problem.  Honestly, I give penn G with and the coccidiosis meds at the same time, but I know it is not recommended. 

Another great product that I have been really happy with is called Bovi-serum or poly-serum, it is a product designed to boost their immune system.  Those are the brand names, And our feed store does carry a similar product under a different brand. You want to make sure it says "anitbodies" and not "toxin" on it. I tis not a vaccine.  http://www.jefferslivestock.com/bovi-sera-serum-antibodies/camid/LIV/cp/0034941/id/1ABBC61TI4QJ/



vitamin B shots
a bo-se shot if the kid hasn't had one in a while
Drenching a kid can be hard, if they aren't used to a bottle and since  she doesn't have scours I would be careful not to give too much electrolytes. But a bottle of electrolytes may be helpful. 

Some 50% dextrose injected under the skin might also be helpful, directions are on bottle.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 12, 2012)

I have been really liking the product  SAve a caf Plus.


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## Roll farms (Sep 12, 2012)

Sometimes goats will peak a very high fever, then run a low temp, which can begin to 'kill' the rumen.  Adding antibiotics to the mix w/out repopulating the rumen w/ probiotics can make the situation worse instead of better.

With few 'obvious' symptoms, I'd probably call a vet.  Online diagnosis can be risky.

A B shot, probiotics, take her temp, and if she has a fever, keep the Pen G and probiotics going.

If after 24 hrs she's still running a temp, call the vet for better / stronger antibiotics.

A fecal to check for cocci or worms wouldn't be a bad idea, like 20K suggested.  Opportunistic parasites love to invade already weakened animals.

As to your buckling's cough, if he's not running a temp and it's only when you're leading him  / he gets 'choked'....don't medicate.
You wouldn't give antibiotics to a human kid if they weren't running a temp, don't give them to animals.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 12, 2012)

Sorry, the doe, Heidi, is 1 year old.  I should have specified.

No real goat vets in the area.  Last vet I talked to said give her antibiotics (for diarrhea) and suggested I go to the internet for help. 

I'll get her temp today.  I suspect it's high.  Seriously doubt its coccidia as she's got solid poop.  I'm thinking of giving her a B-shot and some bantamine.  I'll pick up probiotics today.  (I ran out)

Any other thoughts?  I can get stronger antibiotics at the farm store.  Penicillin is cheap insurance.


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## Roll farms (Sep 12, 2012)

My thought would be get a temp ASAP.  Goats can go from 'sick' to 'dead' fast.  She could have spiked a high fever last night and be shutting down her rumen w/ a low temp today.  That would indicate 'silent pneumonia' (no cough) to me and I'd treat w/ Nuflor, and probiotics.

Diarrhea isn't the only symptom of cocci.  A lot of goats have died from it while the owners say, "But they don't have the poops."  Subclinical cocci can do a lot of damage but never be 'symptomatic'.  I'm not saying she has it, I'm just saying you can't rule it out b/c of solid poop.

Why the banamine if you don't know her temp?  

(I've had a lot of goats for a lot of years and never owned a bottle....)

I'd recommend you find a good goat vet, even if it's just via phone calls, there's a lot of bad / misleading info on the internet....such as "Goats w/ coccidiosis will have diarrhea."


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## elevan (Sep 12, 2012)

Roll farms said:
			
		

> A B shot, probiotics, take her temp, and if she has a fever, keep the Pen G and probiotics going.
> 
> If after 24 hrs she's still running a temp, call the vet for better / stronger antibiotics.
> 
> A fecal to check for cocci or worms wouldn't be a bad idea, like 20K suggested.  Opportunistic parasites love to invade already weakened animals.





> there's a lot of bad / misleading info on the internet....such as "Goats w/ coccidiosis will have diarrhea."


x2 - Coccidiosis doesn't always present with diarrhea, though if it does then you need to address it and the resulting dehydration.

I triple the dosage of probiotics when giving antibiotics.  The massive kill off of good flora in the gut is why antibiotics and coccidia medications together aren't really good to do, but if you give massive amounts of probiotics with it then you can counteract that.

Definitely check the temp.  I wouldn't give the banamine unless it's elevated and then don't give more than 48 hours.

B shot will help boost the immune system but it needs to be given daily as it's a water soluble vitamin and needs replenished daily.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 12, 2012)

She's doing a bit better, but not great.  I got probiotics and found clostridium antitoxin at Murdochs.    There's a small chance she may be suffering from that.  She pooped three pinecones of poo.  Gave her pepto bismol.  Checking her temp tonight.

She's chewing her cud (good) but looking really tired.  I'm going to hold off of the coccidia treatment, although I will give her a B injection.  I only have corid and nobody around here carries anything else.    If she looks worse, I'll start the corrid.

Thanks so much for your thoughts.  I'll keep you informed.


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## elevan (Sep 12, 2012)

Personally I would go ahead and start the CoRid.  It's better than nothing and some folks use it for treatment as well as prevention.

Also go easy on the pepto...stopping the goat up will cause it's own array of problems.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 12, 2012)

Okay, her temperature is 102.4F.  That feels a LOT cooler than last night (she felt really hot then).  I don't have a temperature to gauge it.  

She ate a little grain and has been drinking water (both good).  The B shot and the Clostridium antitoxin shot wore her out.  I gave her 5 mg of probiotics.  Tonight at midnight, I'll give her another shot of penicillin.  

I've thrown a lot of stuff at her.  Do you think the CoRid is a good idea still?


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## elevan (Sep 12, 2012)

Yep, I think the CoRid is still a good idea.

I'd also up the probiotics to 15.

How did the shots wear her out?  Is she difficult to deal with?


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 12, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> Yep, I think the CoRid is still a good idea.
> 
> I'd also up the probiotics to 15.
> 
> How did the shots wear her out?  Is she difficult to deal with?


Okay, I'll give her 15 tonight.

I put her in the stanchion to give her the shots and probiotics.  One was IM -- she was pretty jumpy with that -- and I don't blame her.  I hate IM shots.  She hates getting stuff shoved in her mouth.  Basically, it was stressful.  

On temperatures -- I read 101-104 is normal?  That's a pretty big range.  Also, should I continue the penicillin every 8-12 hours?  

Edited: I found my answer for penicillin.  The type I'm using, the Merck vet manual says once or twice a day.  I'll go with that.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 13, 2012)

Just got back from dosing Heidi with probiotics and CoRid.  I'm convinced I now don't have coccidia because I ended up getting splashed with CoRid right in the mouth.    She's struggling, which is a GOOD sign.  She decided to lay down afterwards and nibble at some hay.  Still chewing cud.  

Her sister, Belle, loves probiotics and wants whatever I give Heidi.  

Tomorrow: more probiotics, penicillin, CoRid.  I think Heidi now hates me.  :/


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## Roll farms (Sep 13, 2012)

Keep in mind the dosages listed in Merck may have been for cattle, pigs, or sheep.  

Goats metabolize differently and it goes through their systems faster, and it also depends on what illness you're dealing with.

Pen. Procaine G is what I use w/ goats, and for 'regular' ills or wounds, I use it every 12 hrs, 1cc per 20#.
For tetanus or listeriosis, you need to use it 4x a day, every 6 hrs.

Are you using a dosing syringe w/ the long metal tube?  Makes it much easier to get stuff down their throats and keep from getting it spit out.

Better a mad goat than a dead one.  

You will need to give her CD/T toxoid shots now when she feels better.   The antitoxin 'cancels out' the protection given w/ CD/T.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 13, 2012)

what was the dosage of ivermectin wormer you gave her?  and how did you give it?  I am kind of following along and agree with all the great advice you are getting. I agree with elevan abouat the corid, and the drenching syringe is a wonderful took to use.

Look up feeding syringes on jeffers and some will come up. I like the one where you purchase the metal end/tip separate. This one has the end come separate and what is cool about it is if you have regular luer lock syringes the end will also fit onto those. 



but I can't help that I have this little birdie telling me to not overlook a worm load. She is 1 year old, and although she could be acceptable to Cocci, it could also be a heavy worm load. I would consider a stronger wormer, possibly in the family of white wormers, like valbazen or synanthic. 

Do you have anyother womers already available to you besides the ivermectin? 

If she doesn't show improvement by this afternoon from a two doses of Corid, I would continue the corid, but consider a different wormer.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 13, 2012)

Okay, some GOOD news!  Heidi was up and actually wanted to eat some hay and browse.    I finally caught sight of  discharge coming from her nose.  Yeah, it's clearing up, but has some green.  The darn smoke from the forest fires have done this, I'm pretty sure.     I think she's sick from that.  My little buck Oreo has been coughing and now sneezing.  Guess who's getting antibiotic shots next?  

Heidi is tired of being a pincushion.  She was jumping around so much in the stanchion, I actually nicked a vein (never has happened before) and had to reinsert several times.  The dose I'm giving her is 30,000 IUs per 100 lbs by IM, which equates to about 45,000 IUs IM.  I don't want to overdose her, so I'm keeping it at that (my dad was overdosed on it way back when they didn't know what was a proper dosage for penicillin).  I'm keeping the CoRid and probiotics by mouth.

For those interested, I do not have a drenching tool.  I simply squirt the stuff in her mouth.  No, she doesn't spit it out.  

Thank you, Roll Farms, for the CD/T info.  I will do that once she is back to her normal self.

For 20KidsOnTheHill, Ivermectin dosage: I gave her enough for a 300 lb animal.  She's a LaMancha doe of about 1 year and I'm guessing a bit over 100 lbs.  I used the equine version of Ivermectin.  

After the excitement of penicillin, CoRid, and probiotics, she ate a bit and now is resting.  Drinking REALLY well.  Temperature steady at 102.4.  One of my dogs has a bacterial infection in the sinuses, so I'm going to the vet with him.  Afterwards, I may be picking up some stronger antibiotics at Murdochs (or I may ask the vet for a scrip).  We'll see.

Thanks for your help on this.  I'm going to start Oreo on antibiotics.  It's bad enough to have one sick goat and dog, I don't need another one sick.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 13, 2012)

Sounds like she is on her way to recovery.  Glad to hear that. Important to give the Penn G twice a day and for minimum of 5 days. You may need to do 7, since she was so sick and continue probiotics.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 14, 2012)

Crud -- Heidi has backslid.   Her temperature spiked to 104.4F and she looked miserable again (She felt hot again).  Gave her another shot of penicillin and gave her some bantamine.  She was eating somewhat with her sister.

Tomorrow I'm taking a dog into the vets for a sinus infection and I'll see if I can get her some heavier duty meds, or at least a recommendation for the next step in antibiotics.  

Thoughts?


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## AdoptAPitBull (Sep 14, 2012)

I'd take in a fecal while you're at it.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 14, 2012)

Hmmmm,  that is frustrating, At this point I would stop the corid. You need a stronger antibiotic. Go to the vet and get one. 

With a fever spiking you could consider it to be pneumonia not getting under control or maybe even something like overeating diesease, my first guess would be pnuemonia. You said you gave her antitoxin.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 14, 2012)

Nuflor works well for pnuemonia.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 14, 2012)

Draxxin is also another good one. Dosed at 1cc per 101 lbs (don't ask me why the extra pound).


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 14, 2012)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Draxxin is also another good one. Dosed at 1cc per 101 lbs (don't ask me why the extra pound).


I think that is what our vet gave us for a 4 month old doeling that was having problems.  He only gave me enough for one dose, but had several recommend I go back and get another dosage and give it to her on day 3.  She recovered well with one dose, but I had already had 4 days of other medication in her. Poor thing was a pin cushion.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 14, 2012)

The nice thing about Draxxin is that it is a 7 day antibiotic. It is very expensive though so I only get the shots I need from the vet since I only used it once when my whole herd got pneumonia.

If you get Draxxin, be sure to get for a full 14 days which would be 2 shots.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 14, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Hmmmm,  that is frustrating, At this point I would stop the corid. You need a stronger antibiotic. Go to the vet and get one.
> 
> With a fever spiking you could consider it to be pneumonia not getting under control or maybe even something like overeating diesease, my first guess would be pnuemonia. You said you gave her antitoxin.


Yes, I gave her antitoxin, so that should've taken care of the Clostridium, if she had it.

She looked iffy this morning when I went to the vet for an unrelated case of sinusitis in one of my Malamutes.  But it wasn't unrelated, as it was caused by the smoke.  The air quality is now considered unhealthy, but it took the authorities long enough to make that pronouncement (geez, ya think when you can SEE the air?).  Talked with the vet about her and he gave me some Baytril shots.  Pricey, but not too.  I also brought some poop in, so they're doing a fecal.  He said "Geez, it's tough when they have a fever AND scouring."  Yep.

Got home and she looked happier than I've seen in a while.  Gave her the CoRid -- figured we're into day 3 already, might as well go through day 5.  Gave her some hay but she was looking at the organic lettuce leaves I got from the freebie scrap pile at the grocery, so I broke down and gave her some.  She was happy with that.

Pain in the rear to give her the Sub Q Baytril -- no loose skin -- but she was happy to not have an IM shot, and I don't blame her.  Gave her probiotics again (she's getting tired of stuff stuck in her mouth and her skin).  She wanted to go out with the herd (a good sign) so I put her out with the others.

A bit of GOOD news for once: I gave my coughing buck a shot of penicillin last night and he's no longer coughing.  It's nice that SOMETHING is working.

I want to thank everyone for their input.  This has been a nightmare.


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## dwbonfire (Sep 14, 2012)

best of luck to you.


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## bonbean01 (Sep 14, 2012)

Yes, this is hard...and you're doing so much and I hope for a fast recovery...have been following this thread, but had no advice or information to give...not much you can do about the horrible smoke and air quality...this has been a rough week for you and all I have to offer is best wishes and hugs to you


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## elevan (Sep 14, 2012)




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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 14, 2012)

Sounds like thinkgs are heading in the right direction.  The smoke would must be terrible.  I bet it is keeping animal and human doctors very busy.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 14, 2012)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Sounds like thinkgs are heading in the right direction.  The smoke would must be terrible.  I bet it is keeping animal and human doctors very busy.


It is so bad south of us that they need a pilot car to lead people down highway 93 south to the Idaho border.  You can't see farther than 200 feet there.  Here, the visibility is about 2 miles or so.  Yeah, it's miserable.  

They're saying we won't get a reprieve until a season changing event, such as snow.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 15, 2012)

Okay, an update: I think she has turned the corner on this.  Not sure if it was the Baytril or the last shot of Penicillin that did the trick, but she's eating a bit more, staying on her feet more, and acting a lot less tired.  The Bantamine seemed to help last night too.  I'll keep the CoRid up through Sunday and then she'll be off that.  That will also be the final day of the Baytril.  I've been pushing ProBios into her so much I'll be out of a 60 mg tube by early next week.  I may pick up another tube, if not to continue the treatment, then to at least have on hand.

Once I'm sure she's better, I'll revaccinate her CD/T.  Thankfully the bottle I have is for 25 dosages--I had no idea when I got it originally.  I just picked up the cheapest bottle for goats/sheep.  Silly me.  

Haven't heard back from the vet on the fecal.

Thought you'd like to see my girl -- this was taken before she got sick.  She standing by the "duck pond" that the ducks always throw dirt and stuff into.  The goats have their own very fresh water.


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## ksalvagno (Sep 15, 2012)

She looks like a nice girl. Hopefully she gets totally better for you.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 16, 2012)

Yesterday was a GOOD day.   

Heidi went with the herd and competed for food (they get lots of hay-- they really don't need to compete, but they use it as an excuse).  She chowed down on the grain a weeds -- not as vigorously as when well, but close.  She stayed standing most of the day, simply looking for more to eat.  I suspect she's hungry from lack of eating while sick.

I'm not bumping her food up because I don't want her to overeat.  At the same time, she's also not thin, as you can see by her picture, so I'm not too worried.  Poop looks more normal.

She came up to the gate and asked for a chin scratch.  I'm not sure if she realizes all the nasty stuff had to do with her getting well.  Probably not.

Last of the baytril shots today!


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## elevan (Sep 16, 2012)

You did good.  I'm glad she's on the mend.


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## SkyWarrior (Sep 16, 2012)

elevan said:
			
		

> You did good.  I'm glad she's on the mend.


Thank you all so much for your words of wisdom!    She's decided to push Annie around, which means she's feeling good.  Poo still loose (close to berries, though), but that could be the antibiotics.

I think I could've lost her easily given how quickly she became sick.  One more question-- when should a revaccinate her for CD/T?


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## elevan (Sep 16, 2012)

SkyWarrior said:
			
		

> One more question-- when should a revaccinate her for CD/T?


14 days after you gave the antitoxin.


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