# Mini Manchas- Breeding Trouble X Henry



## Southern by choice (Nov 5, 2017)

Two of the doelings we sold earlier this year dropped in for a pen breeding this evening.

W do not lease, or driveway breed to just anyone. Our conditions are as follows-
~ they must be our goats that we sold
~ must not own or have had any other livestock on their farm other than our goats
~ generally just first time breedings until they have their first kid - that way they can retain and then get a buck for future kiddings.

So anyway- These does are just at 8 months old they are 50/50 % but F-2 Generation.
Being F-2's they ended up with erect ears, their triplet brother ended up with gopher ears. We retained him.

We are very proud of their owner's management- she has done a great job! 
Loving how these two does are looking.
They have great dairy length, excellent legs, very wide escutcheon, excellent width between hock, teat placement and teat size looks awesome!
We just need to see how they udder. 

I may buy a doe kid from out of one of them   A little line breeding but we think it will be good! 

They are out of Bingo (f-1 50/50) and Chami (f-1 50/50 polled)

  
Bred to Henry   (star x casey)
 

Bingo's FF udder -Dam  (she kidded on her first birthday)
  

Bingo's Dam Zephyr
  

Chami's Dam & Henry's Dam- Star's udder
 


@Sweetened - I saw you were breeding minis now- They are my favorite! The best for production with feed conversion! The ultimate in the perfect homestead goat.  
Everyone has a different focus- ours is NOT the ears, but the udder. They take work. Ears cannot milk!
I can work on ears later... I will be posting a lot about the minis because it is my focus this year. We have focused so much on the lamanchas and dwarfs, it is the year for minis here!


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## Sweetened (Nov 5, 2017)

Thank you for including me in this, Southern! Im sp happy to be following this thread and learning from your escapades as well as mine! With the exception of our one girl, saffron, I have grately enjoyed them so far (the herd hasnt been here long). Saffron os just nasty to other goats, straight up, and I just closed them in the garage (err... "barn") this evening, and Im already tempted to pen her alone for the winter as she is a damn wretch!

Keep posting! I LOVE learning.

Can the F2's with long ears throw correct ears f3?


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## Southern by choice (Nov 5, 2017)

I know I have this in another thread but I thought I'd keep the mini's on their own thread.

I think I mentioned in the other thread that we have some does we are thinking of breeding for minis this year so we can start another line.
I want two lines - there still will be some line breeding- so I can breed from what I have on my farm.
There are some really nice minis out there but most are on the West Coast. There are some nice ones here in the East but either farms are not testing for everything I want OR the bucks (which is what I need) just don't have the udders behind them that I want. I might see a really nice udder on the dam but the sisters are not nice... or attachment is great but not teat placement... seems like I just keep getting pointed back to my own farm to do the work here.
I know there are nice mini bucks out there... but lets face it no one know every breeder or stock out there. Lot's of mini folk are testing now... I just can't find the whole package so far.



Sweetened said:


> Thank you for including me in this, Southern! Im sp happy to be following this thread and learning from your escapades as well as mine! With the exception of our one girl, saffron, I have grately enjoyed them so far (the herd hasnt been here long). Saffron os just nasty to other goats, straight up, and I just closed them in the garage (err... "barn") this evening, and Im already tempted to pen her alone for the winter as she is a damn wretch!
> 
> Keep posting! I LOVE learning.
> 
> Can the F2's with long ears throw correct ears f3?


You were posting while I was typing 
I am so excited you want to be part of this thread!  

Is Saffron bred? Some goats turn into jerks when bred. How long have you had them? 

Glad you asked about ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wanted to post about ears but I was afraid I'd bore people.
I was going to make a chart for the ears. And hopefully explain some "generation rules".


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## Sweetened (Nov 5, 2017)

Shes been a jerk sonce I got her, got told that as we were loading her, sigh... everyone else is great, but I would ha e passed on her had I known (person drove from 2 provinces west tp drop them off). Had them just over a month.

That would be awesome. Ill have to pick your brain on selecting doe kids and estucheons etc. Everyone I knpw puts little value in it, but k owing someone who can tell me EVERYTHINH about a cow and how she will milk etc from a very young age (and do so acurately) leads me to believe it can be done with goats as well.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 5, 2017)

When we got Mariah (lamancha) she was a jerk- for the first year really. Now she is fine and the herd all gets along. I wish we would have kept her apart though... she was such a jerk that she slammed Star into the feeder shattering her femur. Star had to be put down. It was devastating. I still have Star on our website- cannot bare to take her down. Loved that goat. 

Well, it will be fun to look and share what we like and what we think we want to change. This will be fun. Having extra eyes is great! So excited! You made my day!


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## Southern by choice (Nov 11, 2017)

@Sweetened 

This is a probability chart for ears. Based on the Punnett square.


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## Southern by choice (Nov 20, 2017)

Today Jane (Standard Lamancha PB) was bred to Isaac (Nigerian Dwarf) for F-1 Esp 50/50 Mini Manchas

I went back and forth of whether to breed her for Standards or minis. 
Then after deciding Mini's... who?
Goat Whisperer said I could use Issac (and previous conversation with OFA asking if he would mind) 
I think this should be a beautiful match. 

Kids will be retained for that separate line. This is Jane's 2nd Freshening.

Too cold out - no pics 

Day 150 should be April 19th


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## Hens and Roos (Nov 20, 2017)

Can't wait to see pictures


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## Wehner Homestead (Dec 8, 2017)

You've got me interested in the minis! How does the size and production compare to a Nigerian? You mentioned production and that caught my attention. As you know, having milk available here is of the utmost importance! Also, do the Minis breed year round like a Nigerian or are they seasonal like the Standards?


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## Southern by choice (Dec 18, 2017)

Wehner Homestead said:


> You've got me interested in the minis! How does the size and production compare to a Nigerian? You mentioned production and that caught my attention. As you know, having milk available here is of the utmost importance! Also, do the Minis breed year round like a Nigerian or are they seasonal like the Standards?



IMO they are the best goat out there. 
Since we breed all 3, Stds, Miniatures, and Dwarfs I can be very open about all 3. 
I am not going to ever give up my Lamanchas, and we will always have our nigerians as well.
So... the feed conversion is excellent! The butterfat is excellent! The size really is variable. We keep our minis at the 50/50 % mark because I want my minis to be minis.

Production for us has been great. Keep in mind we feed mostly grass hay, we do supplement with alfalfa but our goats do not get straight alfalfa. We do feed dairy goat feed 17% on the stand. Our goats forage when it is available. Fall/winter everything is dormant here.
For a FF 50/50 f-1 I want to see 5-5.5 Lbs by 2-3 F  7-8 lbs
I don't base a whole lot on FF- depends on age, parent stock, kids, etc... but I want to know it is an udder to work with, milks well, great orifices, and general good udder even if it needs improvement. One of the hardest things on a mini is the same issue dwarf breeders have- teat placement.


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## babsbag (Dec 19, 2017)

Since I don't have any nigi does I am not familiar with this teat placement problem. So do they point out to the side or forward? I am milking one this year and her teats point forward...reminds me of the tail lights on 1960 Cadilac.   Makes it easy for kids to nurse...not so easy to milk. One of the other two that kidded has good placement and one I haven't paid any attention to. The other two minis have not had kids. Guess I need to take a look.  I only bred one doe for minis this year and never saw her bred, but she spend the day with him and has not recycled THAT.I.KNOW.OF. Jumanji is living with the does right now. (I need him out of there...I have 6 does that I don't want bred at all)  

Could you please come to CA and finish my buck pens for me?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 10, 2018)

*Trouble and Henry*! 

So excited about this breeding.
We have gone back and forth as whether to milk on through and skip this year or not. 
Because I may  sell Henry next year (later this year actually) I really wanted to repeat the breeding from 2 years ago. I sold all those goats. 

Ok , you all know how much I love this goat right?
You know Trouble gives the best milk right?
You all know I am going to bombard you with pictures right? 




 



 



 



 

Trouble next to Mariah 


 

Henry-


 

 


Kids from 2 years ago!


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 10, 2018)

Some more pics 

(Note- the LM behind her had gotten very ill/nearly died from a bad run of Chaffhaye so is not properly conditioned)


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 10, 2018)

Trouble is really THE best goat. 
An easy keeper who milks like crazy. She is so easy to increase as well. Need more milk? Just milk her 3x a day and she’s got you covered. 

She’s kidded triplets the last 2 years, looking forward to see what she produces! 

She is one of my favorite goats ever


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## Southern by choice (Jan 10, 2018)

Trouble thinks Goat Whisperer is her baby. It is too funny.
GW steals my goats. Brat.


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## CrockpotGodess (Jan 10, 2018)

Just had to butt my head in and say Wow they are beautiful. I cannot wait to get my minis.


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## Wehner Homestead (Jan 10, 2018)

I'm excited about adding Minis too!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 10, 2018)

CrockpotGodess said:


> Just had to butt my head in and say Wow they are beautiful. I cannot wait to get my minis.


Thank you. I am really excited about this year. We have delayed our  mini program because we were so focused on the Lamanchas and Nigerians for the past 2 years.



Wehner Homestead said:


> I'm excited about adding Minis too!


I was reminded by Gw that we bred Jane to Isaac!

I finally got some pictures of Bingo's boy "Monopoly" he was a triplet... Rut was very hard on him, not so much because he rutted hard but because the other young bucks he was in with rutted crazy hard. I really wanted to use him this year but he was too immature. Monopoly has a kindof scur/horn.
Whenever I have a large group of kids I do a disbudding class and work with people that want to learn. They get hands on experience... of course I am right there- One side was great- the other ummmm yeah.   We won't disbud other people's goats but we help them learn while we do ours. GoatWhisperer is a wreck about it. But how will people learn?

Excuse the muck, snow has melted, grass and trees dormant- ugh a big nasty muddy mess right now.


Here is baby boy!


 

 

9 months Only slightly larger than Seth (Nigerian 10 months) Still gaining weight back.
    


Anyone interested in seeing how a mini buck grows? It is amazing at how 8 months- 18 moths, 2yr, 3 yrs are so different. They take a while to develop.


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## CrockpotGodess (Jan 10, 2018)

That is great! I hope to find someone to teach me that near me in NH. I reached out to two local breeders and vets and have not heard a word back. I know it is a crazy time of year. Holidays, and kidding etc. Just so darn excited. Good time of year to get your fix w cute pics and videos though


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## Southern by choice (Jan 10, 2018)

CrockpotGodess said:


> That is great! I hope to find someone to teach me that near me in NH. I reached out to two local breeders and vets and have not heard a word back. I know it is a crazy time of year. Holidays, and kidding etc. Just so darn excited. Good time of year to get your fix w cute pics and videos though


We start kidding in Feb we have 10 due at the same time, then a break. One in mid March, then a few in April, then again in June. Gonna be a long kidding year.

Your breeder will probably help teach you. Depends on the breeder.

I am really excited about Bingo's kidding.  Cannot wait to see her 2nd freshening udder

Trying to get our paperwork in for DHI ... hope we get it done. Deadline for mini's is in a few days.

I need to get the scur off if I want to show him.


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## Wehner Homestead (Jan 11, 2018)

You know I'm always interested in learning more about the Minis! Currently trying to talk myself out of a trip down in the middle of kidding season...


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## CrockpotGodess (Jan 11, 2018)

Know anybody good near me up in New England. Everybody I like the look of (breeder not goats, the goats are all darn adorable) is 600-800miles away. Might be going for a long trip to start my foundation herd. Oh yeah I got the goat bug bad.


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## Wehner Homestead (Jan 26, 2018)

Any updates on Ramona and Beezus? Did they end up cycling to get bred??


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## Southern by choice (Jan 28, 2018)

They still might... just not sure if I will breed them yet.
I did get a call from a repeat client. I may sell one bred in August/Sept. I just want a doe back if possible... we will see. She is really easy to work with and is on the list for several other goats.
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Anyway... a little venting...

Even though I started another line we still have some line breeding... so I have been keeping my eyes open. I have put lots of inquiries out over the past few weeks.  

Biggest peeve- why do people use FB and then want to message 8 million times and send pics etc?
PLEASE build a website!  It doesn't have to be perfect... just something more than cute kids for sale. 

The website tells me some very important things-

~What you test for.... this right here will eliminate the majority of the conversations. If you don't test - scratch.
~Pricing- that is a big one too!  
~ PICTURES! this lets me see the GOAT!  I really want to see more than an udder.  If you cannot include the whole rear showing the top of the rump down to the feet-   how do I know what the goat looks like? foreudder, rear udder, side udder... those are pretty helpful. Any of those in a single pic can be quite deceptive. Side view can hide horribly flares out teats, teat placement. 
And the list goes on...
~When sending udder pics.....  what about the info? How fresh?, what freshening? Hours filled? Overly full udders hide a great deal... be honest!
~Sire/Dam... other info?   There are some lines I just won't touch. Period!


This way I can take time look at what the person has, breeding styles, production info etc...   then I can inquire or not.

The NOT part is important.  Hate it when I get a bunch of pics in a message from an inquiry and I know there is no way but now I have to find a polite way of saying that. 
Then there are the ones you love but may not advance your program. Especially the mini's.  I could care less about the generation but everything else... yep pretty important.
There are really nice goats out there and sometimes a particular breeding just flops... happens to everyone.... so having a website allows people to see all the good animals too.
A basic website that is simple (many free) that boils down to click and paste and you type in a little info is easy and takes far less time than doing all that on messenger through FB.
It gives so much more info.


ok- rant/vent over


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## CrockpotGodess (Jan 30, 2018)

I hear your rant on the sites. A lot of people near me have very outdated sites. Or no site. Some are on facebook but it makes looking up information on the goats they are selling nearly impossible. And to add to the difficulty they refer you to the site.  .  .


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## Southern by choice (Jan 30, 2018)

CrockpotGodess said:


> I hear your rant on the sites. A lot of people near me have very outdated sites. Or no site. Some are on facebook but it makes looking up information on the goats they are selling nearly impossible. And to add to the difficulty they refer you to the site.  .  .



I am certainly guilty of not always keeping up. I do try. 
I am working on mine now... Probably will publish it later this week.
Then again after kidding I will need to update pics for udders etc.


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## CrockpotGodess (Jan 30, 2018)

It must def add to the chores.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 5, 2018)

I am pretty excited about the minis this year.
I was looking over the kidding schedule and Bingo is due this month.
Jane is due April.
Trouble is due June.

I realized I have no real pics of Jane from this past year. We didn't show her. She kidded in June (mid) and the heat took its toll. 
I don't think I will ever breed a standard for kidding after April. It was a nightmare. The two goats that did kid in the heat tanked.

So not the greatest pics because we weren't milking her much, trying to balance it all. 
She was 17 months old and first freshener.
Very excited about her 2nd freshening!

8 hours - 



 

bred to Isaac


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## Southern by choice (Feb 8, 2018)

I am just so excited about the minis this year.
I know I sound like a broken record.  Hmmm wonder how many people even know what a record is.

Anyway I was looking for some pics of Zephyr when she was young.  I finally found a pic from the day we brought her home. It is a TERRIBLE pic. She is not set up, use to a lead, and even though she was a sweetheart she was in a new place.
The whole reason for the pic is to show how much her Mini Mancha daughter looks like her! 
This pic of Bingo is EQUALLY BAD!    She is never on a lead.. she follows us so this lead thing is strange to her ...ignore that if you can.
She will be 2 a week after she kids! 2nd FF
I love this line up because both sides have such great genetics and udders! Sire's dam had a gorgeous udder (she was put down after another goat hit her so hard she shattered her femur )
Zephyr has a beautiful mammary.  
These kids should be AWESOME! I could care less about what type ears they have.

Bingo's daughter Deanna from last year was also bred to Henry. I am hoping to but a doe back out of her, if her new owner is willing to part with one. They will probably be eared but again, I don't care.
I have also included Zephyrs bloopers pic from the State Fair. She took first place in 3 year olds under Judge Jenn Tereba, in open. (She was 2nd in youth under Julie Mathys)

Zephyrs 2F udder
Bingo's FF udder
Star (Sires Dam) 2F udder
A pic of Deanna (Bingo's kid from 2017) are HERE

Zephyr as a baby 5-6 months I think


 

Daughter (mini) BINGO!


 

I cannot believe how much they look alike!
Blooper from State Fair
 

Bingo with the yellow collar


 


Next year- Prynne X Ruth Buck


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## Dani4Hedgies (Feb 9, 2018)

SOOO pretty can't wait to get our first goat though I know that will be years away soo will just dream and drool over all of yours


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## OneFineAcre (Feb 9, 2018)

I can't wait to see what Isaac  looks like when you clip him this spring.


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## Southern by choice (Feb 9, 2018)

OneFineAcre said:


> I can't wait to see what Isaac  looks like when you clip him this spring.



Me too! I know he is GW's goat but I really love the boy!  He and the other Nigerian boys all get along so well. The lil guy from Clover joined them a few weeks ago. All is well. 
I think he is going to take a little time to get his "manly" body capacity... no worries though. He grew so tall so fast that now he can just grow "out". LOL
I think he and Jane are going to have some amazing kids!  A lot of amazing genetics on both sides.


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## Wehner Homestead (Feb 10, 2018)




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