# LGD not doing his job.



## Justin Seaborn (Jan 7, 2014)

I have a pyranese about a year old, he lives with the goats and does great with chickens. The problem is, he also doesn't mind stray dogs coming up and chasing goats and killing every chicken I had. The first time they came up, he was playing with them. They bolted when they saw me. Two days later they are chasing my goats while he sat by a tree. Came home from work about a week later and found another dog in my chicken pen and dead chickens everywhere. He was laying on the porch. About the only thing I have found he does bark at is deer.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2014)

WOW!

Sounds like he was destined for a pet home from the start.

How old was he when you got him? Were his parents working dogs and is he full Great Pyrenees?


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 7, 2014)

Some friends got him as a pup and kept him with their goats till he killed their house cat and they gave him to me. I've had him roughly 6 months. He is good with everything but other dogs.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2014)

How many goats do you have. Wondering if he is bored and wants a friend. Although at 1 yr old a male pyr generally is quite defensive of his territory and the fact that he sits back while other dogs chase his goats is not good. 
Many LGD pups are sold way to young 6-8 weeks and they never get any "imprinting" by the parent stock. Imprinting is birth through 16 weeks. The most critical time being 6weeks- 12 weeks. They learn so much during this stage. 12-16 weeks they are learning guarding roles.
He may not ever make it as a LGD, sometimes these dogs will still end up ok _IF_ they can be put in with mature LGD's that will teach him what to do, what is and isn't acceptable. 

Sad that the original owners got rid of him because he killed the cat. Sounds like he was trying to develop his guarding role. All our LGD's are fine with the cats and know it is a no no to bother them. However the cats do not ever go into their fields/territory.... they may not make it out... dogs do not want any thing that doesn't belong in their field.


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 7, 2014)

The first time I saw him he was really tiny so you may be on to something there. I don't really know anyone around here with a good lgd. I don't want to get rid of him but would like to see him come to terms with his job lol. As far as a field, we live on 20 acres in the middle of the woods so they roam free but always stay close to home


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2014)

The Great Pyrenees is a LGD breed but like with any other LGD breed not every one will be a LGD. Starting with a dog that came from parent stock that are guardians is key. Of course even with that, on occasion not every pup will be a LGD. Some pups when evaluated can be rated for 2nd LGD and is paired with an older mature working LGD and that mature LGD brings out the confidence and guarding abilities of the dog.  Often they end up being great at their job as the mature dog and actual work brings out their full potential.

Not knowing much about your boy it is hard to say.


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 7, 2014)

Thank you, I'm gonna ask around and try to find someone who has one and would be willing to let him stay awhile.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2014)

Your welcome. I hope everything works out. They really are incredible dogs.


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## secuono (Jan 7, 2014)

I got mine at 8wks, she didn't need the myth of imprinting to learn her job. Got my dober at 7wks, he didn't need imprinting of siblings to teach him squat. My past dober I got at 12.5wks, his siblings taught him nothing. 

Your dog is simply not a LGD. Not all LGD will actually be good at what they were bred for. Just like not all water dogs like water, it's highly individual and luck of the genetic lotto.

I'd get rid of that dog, catch and get rid of the trespasser dogs as well. Look for a better, proven dog.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 7, 2014)

*Imprinting is not a myth. 
*
_Secuono _the day you train dogs and and deal with an average of 3 calls per week regarding LGD's and training then tell me imprinting is not important. Go back and look at all the issues _you_ had with your pup and all the chasing and the other things you had to deal with. Didn't you have to stand behind your window with a shock collar? Wasn't your girl chasing and biting at your ram? None of those things were acceptable and it required a great deal of work on your part. Because you have not had a dog that was raised through the proper stage you probably don't know the difference.

Most issues people have with their LGD's never need to happen. Pups are sold at 6-8 weeks out of convenience and for money.... PERIOD! Pet pups like dobies etc can be sold at eight weeks they are not LGD breeds with a very specific job.
Siblings do not imprint... it is the parent stock.

You are not giving truthful or helpful advice. Not trying to be ugly but it gets old.


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## secuono (Jan 8, 2014)

She was simply bored to hell and there weren't many issues. As soon as she had an outlet, everything stopped.
I don't care. I'm sick of your crud as well.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 8, 2014)

I have always been very civil towards you Secuono.
You however show little respect for anyone on this forum and quite often disagree in the rudest of ways. Much like you have on other LGD forums when you were first seeking out a LGD and didn't want to take any advice from those with experience.

I am a professional trainer Secuono, not a novice. So my "CRUD" as you call it works. Retired and now completely focused on the LGD. Many who own LGD's have a wealth of info to give, we ALL learn one from another.


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## HoneyDreameMomma (Jan 9, 2014)

Imprinting is definitely an important part of having a successful LGD.  Our first LGD we got when she was only about 7 weeks old.  She had excellent guardian parents, and had a natural guardian instinct, but because she was taken from her parents a little too early and we didn't have an adult LGD she could mimic, she had a bunch of dominance issues and other issues like chasing the goats when she wasn't protecting them and chasing and attempting to kill our chickens and guinea fowl.

Our latest LGD puppies were close to the same age when we got them (breeder couldn't keep them longer), but because we have a superb adult LGD that bonded with them and disciplines them when they get out of line with the goats, training these pups has been TONS easier - and there's two of them instead of just one.

I think that keeping LGD pups with working parents for 8+ weeks or having an adult LGD role model for them isn't a requirement for a successful LGD, but it certainly makes training easier.


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 9, 2014)

My very first post and already caused an argument... Sorry


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 9, 2014)

So how would you train something that I would think should be natural instinct?


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## Southern by choice (Jan 9, 2014)

It's not you Justin... and by the way... WELCOME to BYH! 

Yes, the majority of the time there is that natural instinct. However depending on where the dog came from and the breeding... that may not be very strong.  

I need to go back and reread your post... be back in a bit!


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## bonbean01 (Jan 9, 2014)

I don't have LGDs...just happen to love them and read the LGD posts.  And yes...Welcome to BYH!!!!
Your post didn't cause any problems...you posted looking for advice and I know you'll get good advice!  People are passionate about their LGDs and things sometimes get a bit heated, but important thing is to learn from others and their experience.


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 9, 2014)

Thank yall, already found this site is addicting


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## kinder (Jan 9, 2014)

Hey Justin !!!!! Hi there. So nice to have you here...  I'm clueless on training dogs, but there are some who do know a thing or two . I would find someone like Southern who is a trainer in your dogs breed. And stick with a program. IMO. Its not late.


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## babsbag (Jan 10, 2014)

Listen to Southern, she knows dogs. And please don't think it was your post that caused a disagreement; your post was only asking for help that probably many others need too.

If you have 20 acres could you maybe find an older experienced LGD that could come to your place to live? It sounds like you have enough land for 2 dogs. I have 2 on a lot less land and I like having 2 dogs. My female is about 3 and my male is only a year. They work well together, they keep each other entertained during "down times" and they do an awesome job patrolling together at night, they are truly amazing.

 My male is still a pup in a lot of ways, but I have no doubt that he has learned much of what he knows from my female and from his parents; he was 6 months old when I got him. He does have a chicken fetish, but he is awesome with the goats and I know he will outgrow the chicken thing. When I first got him he had been around cattle, no goats. He wanted to play with my goats, he would run towards them when they got active and it had me a little worried at first. Until my female intervened; she would just simply sit between him and her goats. It was pretty amusing to watch. Kids are just around the corner so I will be watching him closely again, but I know my girl has it all under control.

I hope you find a solution, I know how hard it is to get rid of animals that we like, even if it is for a valid reason.

And about the cat killing...cats can't get into my pasture unless they go over the fence, but chickens or guineas that come in and aren't the usual part of the pasture flock had better fly out in a hurry. My girl won't allow any strange birds in her field, even if she sees them every day on the outside of the fence they are not accepted on the inside. I am sure it would be the same with a cat.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 10, 2014)

Morning Justin... I have been giving your situation some thought. I have some questions that could help in evaluating your dog. It is difficult with limited info.
I am going to private message (called Conversations) you with a few questions that may be helpful in coming up with a solution. Watch for your "inbox" later today.
I have a few ideas. I respect you for not just giving up and throwing away your dog.


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 10, 2014)

Thanks, I wouldn't mind getting another but I couldn't justify getting one untrained. So far, everyone I have talked to around here is about in the same boat with their dogs. None are doing as they should be.


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## Beekissed (Jan 10, 2014)

I'll venture to say that my lab/border collie pup got trained and schooled by my GP/lab mix dog in very visual ways, so this imprinting and training is a pretty valuable thing.  I got to witness her disciplining him on rough treatment of the kittens and also set an example of how to be around the chickens....calm, ignoring them unless there was an alarm call or sudden movements, at which time she would jump to attention and move in that direction and even seemed to settle any disputes among the flock in that manner.  

He is currently a very good help to me but the one thing he didn't pick up from her was that territorial attitude towards other dogs, which I wish he had because they are the number one problem we have had here.  Of course, his breed genetics aren't geared for that kind of behavior, so I'm thinking if he had some GP in him he would have benefited from it and had developed his actions in that direction from his partner.  The only time he would ever go after another dog was when she initiated the attack, then he would help her..but good! 

Could the dog in question maybe be just a subordinate natured dog and need a more dominant dog to partner with or can he be taught to develop his territory over time?  

I'd be interested to know if this is so and if Southern by choice has any cool tips for even us folks who do not have a LGD breed on that issue?


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 10, 2014)

Its kinda like he is second guessing his every move. when I'm there, he is always"checking in" with me to guage my response. He learns quick. I yelled no at him when he was mouthing a baby goat and he immediately hit the ground like I beat him. I havent seen him do that again.  I initially wanted him because something was eating my chickens at night and coyotes were getting bad in this area and I wanted a heads up if trouble was nearby.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 10, 2014)

Thanks for the info.... will get back with ya!

@Beekissed - had a few things there but time does not permit at the moment...


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## Beekissed (Jan 11, 2014)

Justin Seaborn said:


> Its kinda like he is second guessing his every move. when I'm there, he is always"checking in" with me to guage my response. He learns quick. I yelled no at him when he was mouthing a baby goat and he immediately hit the ground like I beat him. I havent seen him do that again.  I initially wanted him because something was eating my chickens at night and coyotes were getting bad in this area and I wanted a heads up if trouble was nearby.



Those GPs are very smart dogs and most I've seen are very responsive to owner's directions/corrections.  Very sensitive to corrections so you can't over do it...they will sulk for days if you barely raise your voice and will act like you beat them.  I love the breed!  

My cur dog does that but I think he is just wanting me to take the lead.  He'll even bark at preds, look at the house, bark at preds, look at the house.  I made the mistake of following him one day when he was pursuing a fox and when he saw me coming along, he stopped...it was almost like he wanted me to take the lead on the issue.  Jake is a true right hand man and not a leader, though he does do well to keep preds away he'll never be the dog my Lucy(GP mix) was in that regard.


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 17, 2014)

I guess this was all a moot point... Someone decided they needed him more than I did and took him while I was working. I came home to tire tracks in the yard and no dog.... This was three days ago


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 17, 2014)

I'm so sorry. That is so sad.    

Do you think you will be able to find the person who did this?  Any neighbors you can call and ask?


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## LoneOakGoats (Jan 17, 2014)

Oh No!!!  I'm so sorry!


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 17, 2014)

I've asked the neighbors but they haven't seen anything, I've even went to the post office and talked to the mail carriers and they are trying to help me find him


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 17, 2014)

So sorry to hear this,  hopefully someone will know something.


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## woodsie (Jan 17, 2014)

that's crazy! I can't imagine someone driving in a stealing a dog right out a field but it obviously does happen…that's awful, sorry you lost him. 

I wouldn't want to see someone try to do that with my dogs, I had a hard enough time getting my dogs loaded up to go to the vet.


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## babsbag (Jan 17, 2014)

I am so sorry, how frustrating. 

 In a little town about 50 miles from me someone just had their entire herd of 21 goats stolen from their pasture while they were gone for the day. I am hoping that my LGDs would not allow that if I am not at home but not really sure how they would behave.

Crazy world


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## Beekissed (Jan 17, 2014)

Awwwww....that's bad.  Someone has some big cajones to just drive up in your yard and steal your dog.     Now it's going to be hard to ever have a dog for fear of it happening again.

Watch the local sale ads in towns nearby to see if someone is trying to sell him and watch Craigslist.  It's likely they took him for the money and not just to have a dog.  

I'd also report him stolen..could be there have been other reports of a similar nature in the area and I'd also place an ad for any information about the theft and offer a small reward...some people will bring back the dog they stole just to get the reward.


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 17, 2014)

I have called the local trade line, animal shelter and auction barn. I drove around today and talked to a woman who saw him two days ago but said he left and hasn't came back through.  I left my phone number just in case.  She said her neighbor will shootany dogs that come onto his property.  If she really did see him,  that would mean he was on his way home but I can't figure out why he hasn't turned up somewhere. ..


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## Southern by choice (Jan 18, 2014)

I am so sorry. Did you see paw prints where the tire tracks were?


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 18, 2014)

Not really, I saw where they pulled into the driveway and circled through my yard through the grass


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 22, 2014)

The animal shelter called me today, said a guy has a great pyranese that came to his house last week and wondered if he was mine. I'm gonna go over this evening and check. He lives about 14 miles from me.


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## Southern by choice (Jan 22, 2014)

I hope it is him.


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## elevan (Jan 22, 2014)




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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 22, 2014)

Hoping you have your boy back!


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 22, 2014)




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## Southern by choice (Jan 22, 2014)

Your baby is back!


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## Justin Seaborn (Jan 22, 2014)

He ran and jumped all over me when we pulled up, I am so  glad they called. He said he has been an amazing dog, kept all the deer and Bob cats ran off his property(he owns chicken houses) and his wife is wanting to get one of their own after being around muffin.


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## Goat Whisperer (Jan 22, 2014)

Good Boy!! 

I'm so happy you have him back!


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## Southern by choice (Jan 22, 2014)

I am just grinnin' ear to ear.  So happy... and that name ...
   

MUFFIN!  gotta love 3 year olds! 

Will pm you later on some suggestions for the other things!
Made my day! He's home.


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## Hens and Roos (Jan 22, 2014)

Glad to hear that you have him back!


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## elevan (Jan 22, 2014)




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## BrownSheep (Jan 22, 2014)

YAY! 

Also, if anything like this happens again let the police know. I don't know about your area but dog fighting has picked up here and one way the authorities know to look  for it is by the amount of stolen and or missing dogs. Especially large breeds.


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## Beekissed (Jan 23, 2014)

Fourteen miles!!!!!  Even for a GP that's quite a trek!  So glad you have him back!   Could someone have stolen him and then he was trying to make his way back home?


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## LoneOakGoats (Jan 24, 2014)

Oh so happy for you!


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## babsbag (Jan 24, 2014)

Just saw this. So glad he is back home.  14 miles is a long trek, I do wonder if he was trying to get back to you.


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## woodsie (Jan 25, 2014)




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## Jansalem (Mar 4, 2014)

Justin Seaborn said:


> I have a pyranese about a year old, he lives with the goats and does great with chickens. The problem is, he also doesn't mind stray dogs coming up and chasing goats and killing every chicken I had. The first time they came up, he was playing with them. They bolted when they saw me. Two days later they are chasing my goats while he sat by a tree. Came home from work about a week later and found another dog in my chicken pen and dead chickens everywhere. He was laying on the porch. About the only thing I have found he does bark at is deer.


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## Jansalem (Mar 4, 2014)

Justin Seaborn said:


> Thank you, I'm gonna ask around and try to find someone who has one and would be willing to let him stay awhile.


Justin, we live north of new Orleans and have a male and female pair  of ours that are excellent guard dogs.  We are selling the farm and need to find them a home.


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