# Stillborn Kits



## Rex79 (Oct 27, 2020)

I watched one of my Rex does give birth this evening.  It was amazing to see but sadly all four kits were stillborn.

This was her first kindle. I suspected something might be wrong as she hadn't been eating properly for at least seven days.  She is now very very skinny.  She didn't build her nest in her box but in the opposite coner of the cage.

I've left her with fresh water, some pellets and a few greens before leaving her for the night.

Any tips to help my doe recover or any thoughts on why this happend?  And when should I rebreed?


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 28, 2020)

Why wasn't she eating properly?  Change in feed?  Lack of water?

Next time put the nest box in the corner where she built the nest.

She shouldn't be rebred until she's in condition so get her eating properly.  Maybe mix some higher nutrition into her pellets?  Rolled grains (plain oatmeal is good) maybe some calf manna (just a bit, a teaspoon full per day) maybe some BOSS (Black Oil Sunflower Seeds) or other things to get her weight up.  Feed her more than however much she was getting.


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## Bunnylady (Oct 28, 2020)

Sorry to hear about your lost litter. 

I do not like the sound of "very, very skinny." Makes me wonder if your doe is even going to survive this. I'm thinking it likely that she had a problem which caused her lack of appetite, and the death of the litter is secondary to it. Was this her due date? I have had does abort day 20+ pregnancies when under severe stress.

I agree with everything that @Niele da Kine said about trying to get this doe back up to weight, but I think figuring out why she quit eating in the first place is of primary importance. Until you can resolve that issue, I wouldn't even consider re-breeding, or this may happen again. If this was an Angora, the obvious first thought would be wool block, but just because this is a Rex doesn't mean she can't have a tummy full of fur, or something else. Could she possibly have been getting hold of something mildly toxic?


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## Rex79 (Oct 28, 2020)

Thanks,

I wonder if she will survive this too.  She seems ok today though and I've noticed she is eating again.  

I hadn't change her food but about two weeks ago I noticed she had taken to nibbling on the plastic flooring that is in her cage.  I removed it but I think the damage had been done.  I thought she was just nibbling it but maybe she had eaten some.

I'll boost her up with some BOSS and oats along with her normal pellets and hay - hopefully she is recover.


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## Rex79 (Oct 29, 2020)

A quick update...

I should have said that my doe was 2 days early.  Her due day was today and this morning I found a half eaten kit in her cage which she must have given birth to during the night.

Do you think that 5 kits for a very small 7 month old Rex was just too much?  I wonder if she was just too immature?

She is happily eating her extra hay and BOSS this afternoon and is enjoying her usual head rub!


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## Bunnylady (Oct 29, 2020)

5 is a large litter for a small Netherland Dwarf, but generally speaking, it isn't that large a litter. 

Rabbits can suffer a condition called Pregnancy Toxemia in which the doe's body is metabolizing its fat reserves to try to meet the energy requirements of a growing in-utero or recently delivered litter, and her liver can't keep up with the resulting toxins (that's waaay over-simplified, but you get the idea). Anyway, it's a serious condition, and is most often diagnosed _after_ the doe dies of it.  It is most often seen in overweight does, especially first-time mothers. Anorexia (loss of appetite) can be either a cause or a symptom. If this is what was going on, your doe may be one of the lucky few that survived it.


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## Niele da Kine (Oct 29, 2020)

Thanks for the explanation, Bunnylady, I'm way good with 'waaay over-simplified'!  Wouldn't an overweight doe be able to metabolize fat reserves easier than a skinny doe?  Although, overweight people frequently have liver troubles, so perhaps it's the same in rabbits?  Toxins are stored in fat, I think, so if she's metabolizing fats for the growing litter, she'd be getting a heavy dose of toxins coming out of the fats.  

Hmm, a lot to think about and I don't really have much info to go on but fortunately we now have the internet and we can now Find Things Out.  Remember only having an encyclopedia or a local library for our entire information source?  We also have all you lovely people on the other side of the screen who are amazingly helpful, too!

So she had four stillborn several days ago and then had another one sometime last night which would be two days later?  Could the half eaten one been from the previous event?  That's a really long time for a doe to be in labor if they were all the same litter.   When she was bred, how long was she with the buck?  Could it have been two different litters?


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## Rex79 (Oct 29, 2020)

She was bred on 29/9/20 and gave birth on 27/10/20 to 4 stillborn kits.  Then gave birth early hours of the 29/10 to one more kit - I guess this was stillborn and thats why she ate most of it.

On the 28/10/20 I did observe her nest building again and her tummy contracting as if she was going to give birth.

She wasn't with the buck for that long, about 10mins or so and only had one fall off.  She wasn't bred again so it can't be from two different litters but yes, I thought she was in labor for a long time, is that not normal?

She definitely seems more settled this evening and I'm encouraged that she is eating almost normally again.


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## Ridgetop (Nov 6, 2020)

She may have had a bad presentation of a kit that prevented her from giving birth properly.  I found one of my Netherland Dwarfs with a stuck kit once.  The head was sticking out and she was hopping round the cag very agitated.  I pulled it out, put her in the nest box,  and she produced the rest of the litter.

Litter was not too large for a Rex.  Not eating was odd.  Is her stool proper?  Does she have diahhrea?  Why is there plastic on the bottom of her cage?  If it is to give her a place off the wire to sit, use plain dryall cut into 12" x 8" pieces.  It is gypsum which is a natural earthen compound (chalk) and harmless to rabbits.


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## Niele da Kine (Nov 8, 2020)

As for how long for a doe to have a litter, they usually get it done within a couple hours at the most.  Usually they'll have a kit and then another one in a few minutes so it doesn't take all that long for them to have the whole litter.  If it takes more than six hours, I'd look for a reason as to why.


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## Rex79 (Nov 9, 2020)

Thanks @Ridgetop & @Niele da Kine,

I don't think it was a bad presentation as I watched her give birth to four kits within about 20 mins and she did fine except they were stillborn.  I don't understand why she waited two days to give birth to her fifth kit which I'm sure was stillborn as she ate half of it - The first four kits were born two days early and the fifth was born on her due day, could that fifth kit have been presenting badly?

She was pooping less due to eating only a few greens and twigs, no diarrhoea.  The plastic is part of the flooring which we have removed.  I don't think she ate that much of it though as I swept most of it out of her cage.

She has put on a little weight since giving birth and if she continues to do so I'll rebreed her in a couple of weeks.


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## messybun (Nov 9, 2020)

Rex79 said:


> A quick update...
> 
> I should have said that my doe was 2 days early.  Her due day was today and this morning I found a half eaten kit in her cage which she must have given birth to during the night.
> 
> ...


Give her a little bit of ground beef if she wants it. Rabbits are usually vegetarians, but I heard from an old breeder that some moms will eat their kits if they don’t get their ground beef. Worth a shot. And does she have worms? I’d give her as many immune boosters as you’ve got, probiotics, electrolytes, as much hay and pellets as she wants. Blackberry might help, but it can be a risk for bleeding out. What is her gum color? Temp?


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## Ridgetop (Nov 9, 2020)

Not sure why she would have dead kits BUT . . . .

I did have a doe kindle her first litter early with 5 dead kits.  I removed the dead kits and eventually took out the nest box after her due date passed 3 days later.  The day after I removed the box on the original due date she kindled another 4 kits on the wire!  They were born alive but since they were born on the wire with no box, they did not survive even though I tried to resuscitate them as soon as I found them.  

I rebred her immediately and her next litter was fine.  

Here is what could have happened in both cases.  Rabbits (and many other species) have twin uterine horns.  They conceive and carry fetuses in each horn.  It is possible that the fetuses in one horn died due to some reason and were expelled early.  Then the surviving fetuses in the second horn were born alive on the actual due date.  This would have accounted for my doe delivering half her litter 3 days early.  Then after I removed the nest box thinking she had lost her litter, she gave birth on the actual due date.  Had I left the nest box in her cage she would have had a healthy litter of 4 kits in the nest box to care for.

It is possible that this is what occurred in your case too.  The dead kits were from one horn and were delivered early because they were dead.  The healthy surviving litter in the other horn was born on the due date.  Unfortunately because there was only one kit it did not survive.

This is often the case when a litter only contains one or two kits, or that is all that survives in a larger litter for whatever reason.  The doe cannot keep the single kit warm alone.  Dpes do not cuddle with their babies like cats and dogs.  That is the reason that I always breed 2 does at the same time.  With 2 does kindling the same time, I can either add the single surviving kit to the larger litter or can foster a couple kits from a large litter to the mama with only one or two kits.  Mother rabbits will accept fostered kits in their nest box easily. 

You have to mark the fostered kits.  I use a singe tattoo needle and put a black ink dot in the ear(s) of the fostered kit(s).  It lasts until time to tattoo the ears permanently.


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## messybun (Nov 9, 2020)

Rex79 said:


> Thanks @Ridgetop & @Niele da Kine,
> 
> I don't think it was a bad presentation as I watched her give birth to four kits within about 20 mins and she did fine except they were stillborn.  I don't understand why she waited two days to give birth to her fifth kit which I'm sure was stillborn as she ate half of it - The first four kits were born two days early and the fifth was born on her due day, could that fifth kit have been presenting badly?
> 
> ...


Rabbits have two sides, sometimes they can get bred twice and cause problems. We’re the kits large?


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## Rex79 (Nov 9, 2020)

@Ridgetop,  I think you might be right.  I didn't know that rabbits had two side!

I had also taken the nest box out and my other doe who was due on the same day didn't deliver any kits at all, so I wouldn't have had a foster mother.  Is it possible to hand rear a single kit?

@messybun  Ground beef!!  I'm a little apprehensive about that.  The kits were a normal size for a rex.


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## messybun (Nov 9, 2020)

Rex79 said:


> @Ridgetop,  I think you might be right.  I didn't know that rabbits had two side!
> 
> I had also taken the nest box out and my other doe who was due on the same day didn't deliver any kits at all, so I wouldn't have had a foster mother.  Is it possible to hand rear a single kit?
> 
> @messybun  Ground beef!!  I'm a little apprehensive about that.  The kits were a normal size for a rex.


I’ve never tried it, just heard from a breeder. It is difficult, but you can hand raise a single. I’ve done it before a few times. The trick is getting some of mom’s cecopellets at least every other day to get the proper bacteria in the gut. I’ve also had better luck with goat milk than anything else, but that’s totally up to you. Oh, and don’t feed like the mom does, once or twice a day, feed every few hours, or whenever the baby will eat and always piddle.


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