# Flushing with hay?



## NachoFarm (Oct 15, 2012)

I was reading about flushing in my book and it only mentions feeding grain for flushing but we don't feed grain.  I'm wondering if we go and buy some ridiculously good hay will that provide the same results?  What other foods can I use to have the same effect as grain?  

As well, how do I go about telling the quality of our personal hay stash?  We have six round bales that were taken from our property but the hay has previously only been used for cows so I don't know what's in it and I don't know how good it is.

This is our first time breeding so I'm very nervous...


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## SheepGirl (Oct 15, 2012)

The purpose of flushing is to give your THIN sheep extra nutrition so they ovulate more eggs to be fertilized (flushing does not typically work on ewes already in good condition). Traditionally, grain is used because it's nutrient dense and the nutrients are relatively cheap. If you want to use hay, I would recommend NOT using a legume hay (alfalfa, clover) because they contain chemicals that delay estrus. I know the chemicals are present in fresh/growing legumes, but I'm not sure if they have any effect in the harvested (hay) legumes...but it's better safe than sorry.

So if you want to flush using hay, but you want to stay away from legumes, your best bet is getting a really green (greener = better) grass hay and feed the ewes 1 lb/hd/day. But you only need to flush thin ewes.

To flush, you need to start 1-2 heat cycles before you're ready to breed (17-34 days before ram turn-in). Then you continue feeding through breeding and a couple more days after you take the ram out.


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## NachoFarm (Oct 15, 2012)

Hmm, ok.  I think most of our pasture is alfalfa and clover so that's not good.  I'll have to measure them because they certainly don't look thin to me.  I think we're going to track down some good grass hay anyways to have on hand for those critical points during pregnancy.


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## SheepGirl (Oct 15, 2012)

Sounds like a plan 

But yep, go ahead and get your hands on your sheep to see if they are fat, thin, or just right.


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## Cornish Heritage (Oct 15, 2012)

> If you want to use hay, I would recommend NOT using a legume hay (alfalfa, clover) because they contain chemicals that delay estrus.


Hmm... never heard that. We feed a grassy/alfalfa hay all year round or at least this year due to the drought so do the chemicals delay estrus all the time? 

Liz


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## SheepGirl (Oct 16, 2012)

Cornish Heritage said:
			
		

> > If you want to use hay, I would recommend NOT using a legume hay (alfalfa, clover) because they contain chemicals that delay estrus.
> 
> 
> Hmm... never heard that. We feed a grassy/alfalfa hay all year round or at least this year due to the drought so do the chemicals delay estrus all the time?
> ...


I had to google this real quick so I could get my facts 100% straight lol. but the 'chemicals' are really estrogen and they can delay estrus and reduce fertility. But here's a link I came up with, it is a study that was done: https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/handle/1811/5334/V67N05_308.pdf

In the abstract, it says "...various substances from many plants, such as alfalfa, ladino clover, and birdsfoot trefoil, have been indicated as the cause of such reproductive problems in mammals. Estrogen is one of the main substances shown to produce such effects."

Towards the end of the study, under the heading 'experimental problems,' it has this quote: "...the estrogenic activity of dehydrated and sun-cured forages is highly variable." It goes on to say that the stage of growth the plant was in affects the estrogen content and that drying (haying) did not affect the estrogen content in clover.

So going back to my uncertainty that it could have an effect in hay is correct, depending on what stage of growth the legume was harvested AND what type of legume it is.

Personally, my pasture and my neighbor's pasture have white (ladino) and red clover in it. I don't think I ever saw any alfalfa or birdsfoot trefoil. However, that said, this year my ewes are coming into heat early, but I'm not sure if they settled yet (have to wait until the next heat cycle to find out if they rebreed or not). Also, there was never any fertility issues with the sheep at my neighbor's farm that I can remember. I would think that they would've had to consumed large amounts of legumes in order for the estrogen to have an effect on their reproduction. Of course the pasture isn't/wasn't straight clover--it was a mix of clover (both red & white), orchardgrass, timothy, fescue, queen anne's lace, dandelions, and various other weeds.


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## Bossroo (Oct 16, 2012)

Hmmm !  Since here in Cal.  we have brown collored grass from mid May through mid Nov., irrigation water for pastures is very expensive or not available for pastures and the ewes start to cycle in mid July ...I have fed STRAIGHT high quality  alfalfa hay to hundreds of my own ewes as well as at the Animal Husbandry Dept. herd at an Agriculture University with great results. Our ( limited) irrigated pastures had healthy amounts of clovers too.   Averageing 80+% twins. Some of the University pastures were planted with Sudan grass .   I have seen many a commercial ewe + ram breeding flocks run in Commercial straight alfalfa fields after the harvest of baled hay season .  So I presume our sheep in Cal. didnt read about the legumes aren't good for them if they want to raise a family.


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## SheepGirl (Oct 16, 2012)

I've never fed straight legumes to any of my sheep, but like I said they did consume some as a part of their diet, but I never noticed any reproductive issues due to it.

According to the study, though, alfalfa has various levels of estrogen depending on the time of year (stage of growth)...so I don't know  I'm only going on what this study says (as well as prior knowledge from reading the little bit of info they had in books) and nothing else other than my own limited experience with feeding mixed grass/legumes/weeds.

But it's better to be safe than sorry, since there MAY be a possibility it will affect their ewes...so that's why I mentioned it to the OP to begin with.


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## BrownSheep (Oct 16, 2012)

Ours get straight alfalfa hay. The years they were on hay during breeding they actually had more lambs than the years they were on pasture. Just my expiriance though.


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## CrazyCatNChickenLady (Oct 16, 2012)

SheepGirl said:
			
		

> Cornish Heritage said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just my 2 cents. I bought a 6 day old goat kid this year and she was lactating. My vet said it was problaly caused by a hormone boost from the mother and also is probably from mom eating feeds high in estrogen.  I have no idea how the high estrogen feeds affect sheep though.


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