# Help! Vet's Out til Mon - What am I dealing with?!? (VET UPDATE pg8)



## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

This is the outer area of my 4 month old buckling's penis.  I noticed that he hunched his back up and something seemed wrong and decided to have a look and this is what I saw.

Please   tell me I'm not dealing with UC here.

The area was wet like he'd gone pee.  It's crusty and yellow.  And he definitely is swollen on the outer part.  I felt along the "vein" and couldn't feel any obstructions.

He's still his usual lively self.  Lovable and wanting to be held.  Doesn't appear to be in general pain.  This is the first time I've noticed this.  My DH and I spend a lot of time with Snickers (he's a favorite) so I think that we've caught it right away...whatever it is.

*1.  What is wrong?
2.  What should I do?*

Thank you in advance!


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## helmstead (Feb 25, 2011)

To rule out UC, you need to see him pee.  Unfortunately, that does look like a swollen, wet sheath - which would be one of the indicators.

Otherwise, I don't know?  I'd apply some baby butt cream to it for now...and keep an eye to see how he's urinating.


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> To rule out UC, you need to see him pee.  Unfortunately, that does look like a swollen, wet sheath - which would be one of the indicators.
> 
> Otherwise, I don't know?  I'd apply some baby butt cream to it for now...and keep an eye to see how he's urinating.


Ok.  What's the purpose behind the baby butt cream?


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 25, 2011)

Sorry, I think it is UC.  But the early stages, you will have time to talk to your vet. It takes a few days to a couple weeks to get really bad. 
 I would get him off grain, put him on grass hay only, and add Apple cider vinegar to his water, until you can talk to vet, but make sure he doesn't go off water. give him a salt block to encourage him to drink.



There are some treatment recommendations on this website.


http://uvalde.tamu.edu/staff/Machen7.htm


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## helmstead (Feb 25, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Ok.  What's the purpose behind the baby butt cream?


To help with the obvious scalding from the urine...looks pretty painful.


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

Is it common to see UC in such a young buck?  Crossing my fingers for you elevan.


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

Ok, I'll do what you guys suggest till I can get him to the vets on Monday morning...in case it's UC

What about an infection?  Could it be an infection?  (I haven't taken his temp, I'll do that)

Oh! I love this little guy dearly!    I don't want anything really serious to be wrong with him!


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

n.smithurmond said:
			
		

> *Is it common to see UC in such a young buck? * Crossing my fingers for you elevan.


Can anyone answer that one?

I've never had to deal with UC before.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 25, 2011)

We lost our top whether two  years ago at 4 1/2 months of age.


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## helmstead (Feb 25, 2011)

Yep, UC can hit very young.

As far as suggestions...I'd have him on AC tablets...but those are Rx, so IDK.  I've always had ammonium chloride to give bolus doses of since we lost our first buck to UC when he was 6 mos old.


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## 20kidsonhill (Feb 25, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> Yep, UC can hit very young.
> 
> As far as suggestions...I'd have him on AC tablets...but those are Rx, so IDK.  I've always had ammonium chloride to give bolus doses of since we lost our first buck to UC when he was 6 mos old.


How much luck have you had with this treatment?  We haven't had much problems with UC, but we push some our show whether hard and I am sure it is just a matter of time before it stricks again.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Feb 25, 2011)

Apple cider vinegar will prevent UC, I don't know what to do once they have them, but uva ursi and butchers broom are worth trying. They certainly won't hurt. My mom takes them for her kidney stones. The uva ursi literally breaks the stones up into pieces that can be passed.


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## helmstead (Feb 25, 2011)

I've heard hydrangea root also is a great UC treatment.

I've personally never saved a UC case, nor has my vet surgically.    We've only had two cases ourselves, and a client of ours had a 5 month old wether die after surgical action was taken.  As far as I'm concerned, it's a death sentence...but there ARE plenty of people that have managed to get their boys through it.


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

I've added apple cider vinegar to his drinking water which is fresh, put salt out for him to hopefully further increase water intake (though he drinks a lot normally), I also drenched him with 4cc mix (1 part vinegar / 3 parts water), applied baby butt cream to the affected area.  Temperature is normal.

I have not been able to see him pee yet...

His affected area looked less crusty just before I applied the cream, so the area didn't look as nasty.

He doesn't show any signs of discomfort when I feel and push trying to check for a block.

If it's UC and the vet has a nonsurgical approach I'll try it.  But it sounds like the surgical approach doesn't work much...so I won't put him through that.

If anyone has additional ideas then I will try them - I don't want to lose Snickers!



> I've heard hydrangea root also is a great UC treatment.


Where would I find this?  Health food store?



> uva ursi and butchers broom


Same here...health food store?

How would you administer these?  And how much?


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

DONT WAIT....I would call another vet or Emg clinic??? Something.  He must have coverage??? Drive him to wherever.

First apple cider viniger will NOT cure, treat or prevent UC...Just not true.  Dont use it..really. Sorry...but it wont work.

Make sure he's peeing...if he is not peeing at all..dont make him drink to much...cuz if he's clogged his bladder could burst and kill him.  And if he's not peeing...you MUST get him to a vet to cath him and see if the stone can be dislodged or where it is.  If urine starts backing up into him cuz he cant pee..he will get septic and die or his bladder will burst...Im sorry...but this is a serious situation and you need to act.

If he is peeing you need to get some Amonuin Chloride in him asap.  If need to have shipped overnight.  Call other farms they may have it on hand. 

This is also extremly painful to him! And serious...

I lost my buck to this..we ended up putting him down.  Dont mean to panic you...but all I can say is act now and get treatment for him..or you will lose him.  

Im sorry Good luck


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

Also you need to check to see if its in his pizzel...which is the appendig on the side of his penis.  And then your gonna wanna snip that pizzel off.  Its not always there...but it is a common place where smaller stones get stuck.  

Your gonna need two people for this.  Your gonna wanna right him up like your doing a castration.  Sit him on his but basically.  Then with clean rubber gloves pull out his penis and feel for anything in there...and check the pizzel and make sure nothings stuck in there.  

With sharp and CLEAN scizzors your gonna want to cut that pizzel off and see if any urine comes out.  

He will cry and yell...but just focus...cuz if you can move that stone out..he will have a chance.  

But I cant stress...you will lose him if treatment is'ant started right away...monday can be too late...sorry to sound harsh...Ive been there and lost my buck...and it stinks!!!!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

I would be certain he is peeing.  If you dont see him peeing get the salt out of there.  And easy on the water...and get him help....Sorry Im so insistant...but as Kate said...it generally is a death sentence for them.  It is an very painful way for them to die as well.  

Some people have luck cuz they catch it earlier and admister AC when they notice their peeing has slowed or darkened in color.  

UC is because his PH in his is off in his urine...due to feed and it creates stones..blockages.  

Check you feed labels and make certain it has Amonium Chloride in it for bucks...or get AC and add it to feed...or dont grain at all if he makes it thru.


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

Finding the vet that I have was hard enough...so I have no option but to wait til Monday for vet help.

I will not have an extra set of hands until about 2am...so we'll check the pizzle situation then.

I'm not sticking my head in the sand, believe me I know that this is serious and that I could loose a great goat.  I'm willing to do whatever that I can for him this weekend, including snipping his pizzle.

I've order the AC, they say even overnighting  it at this late I may not get it until Monday.

His feed has AC in it and he only gets about a 1/4 cup once a day and he eats lots of grass mix hay and drinks a ton of water regularly.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

I did'nt mean to sound like you were'nt not reacting...sorry if I sounded that way...I was just trying to stress how serious and painful it is to him.

I am sorry you are going thru this with him.  I lost my buck young with this.  So I did alot of research on it.  Be careful with what you give him right now...baking sodas, salts etc...you dont want to add to the problem.

And really..vinager wont hurt...but truly it wont help...I dont wanna sound mean..I just would hate to see you lose you boy!  I know its heartbreaking.  

Another issue that can cause problems with this is castrating them too young..and there parts dont grow fully and can add to the issue.

I wish you the best with him!!  I hope you find something in his pizzel tonight!


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Feb 25, 2011)

Yes you can find Hydrangea, Uva Ursi and Butcher's broom at the HFS. They come in capsules. I would imagine the best way would be to make a tea out of them and drench him if you have a drench gun, if not try to get him to swallow the capsules.


Emmett's, why do you say that ACV is ineffective for UC? I'm not flaming, just wondering. I have used it very successfully for similar issues in dogs and humans. The key is using ENOUGH. A TBS or so in a bucket of water will not be enough, they need a T or so a day directly in their feed.


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

CrownofThornsNDGoats said:
			
		

> Yes you can find Hydrangea, Uva Ursi and Butcher's broom at the HFS. They come in capsules. I would imagine the best way would be to make a tea out of them and drench him if you have a drench gun, if not try to get him to swallow the capsules.
> 
> 
> Emmett's, why do you say that ACV is ineffective for UC? I'm not flaming, just wondering. I have used it very successfully for similar issues in dogs and humans. The key is using ENOUGH. A TBS or so in a bucket of water will not be enough, they need a T or so a day directly in their feed.


I added a cup to a gallon of drinking water (ACV)...do you think that was enough?
In addition I gave him a 4cc drench with 1 part vinegar




			
				Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> I did'nt mean to sound like you were'nt not reacting...sorry if I sounded that way...I was just trying to stress how serious and painful it is to him.
> 
> I am sorry you are going thru this with him. hugs I lost my buck young with this.  So I did alot of research on it.  Be careful with what you give him right now...baking sodas, salts etc...you dont want to add to the problem.


Not a problem.  I just wanted to make clear that I understand the seriousness.  If my vet were available (even as emergency call) I would have Snickers there in a heartbeat.

That little guy is very dear to me.  I'm partial to the boys - don't know why   All of my boys have such sweet personalities, but Snickers is so loving.

The salt I just added out free choice.

I'm sorry about what you went through with your buck and I hope that I can create a different outcome for mine.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

Apple cider vinegar does not work to prevent or treat urinary calculi. 

The "acidifying agent" of vinegar is acetic acid. The bacteria in a goat's rumen make tons of acetic acid as a part of digestive process. What you are feeding them is literally a drop in the bucket compared to what they naturally make themselves.

The only thing vinegar will do is assist them in drinking more water.  It will not break up stones and or prevent them.  It is just not strong enough to make any differance to the PH in the urine.  

A big point I wanna make is that goats are ruminants...so what works for dogs, cats, people does not always work on goats.  And can be harmful for them at times.  Their digestive system and metabolism is completely differant that other animals.  Its important to keep that in mind when treating goats.

Basically the PH in the goats urine is off...for whatever reason...stones have formed and you need to dislodge any stones that may be blocking the urine flow and work hard on getting that PH level down.

Also Crown...you are just asking a question!! And thats cool!! So dont worry at all!!   No offense taken at all!!


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## helmstead (Feb 25, 2011)

DO NOT ATTEMPT A PIZZLE TRIM YOURSELF.

The pizzle is rarely where the blockage is, anyway...typically it's farther up in the "S" curve within the body.  That's just inflicting pain unnecessarily.


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## AlaskanShepherdess (Feb 25, 2011)

Elevan- I really don't know for a goat that already has a problem. Sorry. :/

Emmett- That is definitely something I need to research!


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

I am so confused!!

This thread is tugging a couple different ways...

What I'm reading in online searches is tugging many different ways...

I just want to do what I can to make sure he has a good chance come Monday when the vet is available.

I hate how many times I'm seeing "this is a death sentence" or "the buck killer"!!!!!  Daggone it!!    I just wanna bring him into the house and cuddle in bed with him and cry!!!

*Has anyone saved their buck / wether from UC??*


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## ksalvagno (Feb 25, 2011)

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1539

Read through this thread.


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## ksalvagno (Feb 25, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> *Has anyone saved their buck / wether from UC??*


Yes, cmjust0 has. See above thread that I posted.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> DO NOT ATTEMPT A PIZZLE TRIM YOURSELF.
> 
> The pizzle is rarely where the blockage is, anyway...typically it's farther up in the "S" curve within the body.  That's just inflicting pain unnecessarily.


Respectfully. I disagree...yes its not pleasant and its a very small piece of skin...but it is a place that smaller stones often catch.  That is exactly what 2 differant large animals vets on staff here instructed us to do with bucks if this happens.  

It will not do anything to the breeding functions whatsoever. 

Pizzel rot is common with UC as well...so in the very least..inspect it...if its darkened at all...remove it.  

If it is farther up most likely he will have to be euthenized.  Cuz the surgical options are not feasable.  And it is very hard to catherize a male goat.  You can only go so far.  

But its common practice to remove pizzels....and Im not saying this as mamby pamby idea.  This is the hands on instructions my vets gave me...who I trust.  And actually had me do it myself when I had to put down my buck.  His was very deep and impossible to deal with.  

Its not as painful as it seems...once you see what the size of the pizzel is..you wont freak out...its like snippin a hang nail.  Its really not that traumatic in comparison.


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## ksalvagno (Feb 25, 2011)

If you have Banamine, I would get a shot of Banamine into him.

You could always try OSU. You have to pay up front though.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> If you have Banamine, I would get a shot of Banamine into him.
> 
> You could always try OSU. You have to pay up front though.


I agree...that may help with any discomfort he is having.  I am very sorry you are getting confused.  I dont mean to confuse you at all...and I doooo understand how upset you are right now. 

But if you are a hands on type of gal...I would recomend in the least..inspect that pizzel and make sure nothing is blocked.  If you are uncomfortable cutting it..then dont.  But if it was something simple like a blockage in the pizzel..I would hate to see you wait til monday when its something you could of done right away for him.  It may not cure him cuz it very well could be a blockage elsewhere.  But its a shot...its a place you wanna start.

I really am trying to give you information that I was given and did myself with instructions of my vets to try to help this poor little guy.  The vet basically said...Becky if your gonna own bucks..you need to learn how to do this.  

Again...Im really sorry...and by no means am I trying to upset you during this.


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## Roll farms (Feb 25, 2011)

I removed the pizzle from a Nubian buck several years ago.  I couldn't get a vet out, it was a Friday night, and I had to do something.
The pizzle is sort of like a bottleneck...it's possible for them to block there, like it is in the S curve.  
It may not be as likely, but very possible.  As soon as we cut Hurri's off, pee started flowing and he looked most relieved.

(Really...goat penii design leaves a lot to be desired, as far as preventing UC to begin with....)

I had also read that 'fruit fresh' will work in a pinch to help w/ urinary calculi.  It's carried in grocery stores in the food preservation section.

I saved the document w/ the dosage on it, I dissolved 2 T of fruit fresh in 2 oz of water and drenched him w/ it.
I can't find the old link I had found back then, but here is one that explains why FF works.

http://thegoatspot.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14440&start=0

We drenched him w/ it twice (once the night we cut his pizzle off, once the next morning) and started him on AC on the following Monday.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 25, 2011)

I have read the Fresh Fruit thing to.  I have no idea why...but Ive heard that it works in a pinch.  Good thinking Roll...its something you can get at store right away.  

http://www.backyardherds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6465

Heres another thread...it may help?


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

I have Fresh Fruit in my cabinet right now!!!

I'm going out to give him a drench of that now.

Thanks Roll!


And ksalvagno - thanks for the link on cmjust's case - it seemed like a long fought battle but I'm glad there's hope!


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## elevan (Feb 25, 2011)

I just gave him 2 Tbsp of Fruit Fresh...I used less water than you said Roll because he's such a small guy and I don't want to add too much fluid to his system if he's retaining in the bladder.  I mixed just enough to turn the FF liquid, then drenched.

My DH reminded me that sometimes when there's a holiday in the week the vet will be open on Saturday...since Monday was President's Day and they were closed and they closed today for the snowstorm that hit us....I'm hoping that they may be open tomorrow    I'll call them first thing to see.

He's drinking, eating hay and acting normal right now.  I have not been able to catch him pee'ing though  :/


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## Roll farms (Feb 25, 2011)

Probably wouldn't hurt to give him some probiotics, too...might get an upset tummy.

Yeah, Hurricane was a full grown Nubian buck...I wasn't taking your guy's size into account...I'd imagine 1 T dissolved would be plenty if you dose him again.

Good luck!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 26, 2011)

Curious how he is this morning...when you get a chance..please update.

 Thinking of him this am!!  Im so glad Roll thought of that!!  I hope it helped!!


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

We didn't snip the pizzle...yet...  

Because when we visited him very early he peed a good stream!! No dribbles, no strain.  His area is less red and less swollen.  

I'm going to do another Fruit Fresh drench on him later this morning.

He also got some probios last night.

This scare has done it for me - my boys will no longer receive any grain (even though they have AC in it and they get less than a little).  I also think since I have a well and the water is not softened that I'll have it tested to see what trace is in it.  If it looks to be part of a problem my boys will get bottled water  

So, this morning Snickers is doing great!  I'll continue the FF drench until Monday and see what the vet has to say when they come in.

Roll - How often should I drench? Twice a day? Or more often?

Thanks everyone!


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## Roll farms (Feb 26, 2011)

I agree, don't snip the pizzle unless he's just NOT peeing at all.  If you saw him whizzing, I wouldn't.

Also, we don't *know* for sure he has UC...it's just a best guess.

I'm not so sure I'd stop giving him / your boys grain...maybe just add AC to his water a couple times a week.  Some bucks have tighter S curves than others and are just more prone.

We top dress our buck's feed w/ 1/4tsp Amm. Chloride every day, and their feed has AC in it...and we have very hard water.

I would drench him 2x today, 1x tomorrow, and then w/ AC 1x a day for a week, to help dissolve any leftovers.

Good luck!


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

Thank you Roll.

I'll consider grain with AC top dressing or adding to their water.

Let's consider that this isn't UC...what if it's an infection?  Should I start him on PenG or Oxytet?  To be safe, since the vet won't be available till Monday.  It seems like such a long time for such a little guy to have a bug running rampant in him without treatment if that's what it is instead of UC...

I just want to do the best for him (and all my boys).

Again...there's no fever...but I don't always have a fever when I have a UTI....that's why I'm asking about anibiotics...


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## helmstead (Feb 26, 2011)

Yippee for the pee LOL

Good job!  This board is great...reminds me daily that you never stop learning, either.  I'll have to get some FF in my medicine cabinet 'just in case'.  

Hope he continues to improve!


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## helmstead (Feb 26, 2011)

If he has a UTI, he'd be running a fever...but a course of antibiotics wouldn't necessarily HURT anything.  UC can also cause UTIs because the crystals scratch the lining of the urethra, etc...so either way...


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> If he has a UTI, he'd be running a fever...but a course of antibiotics wouldn't necessarily HURT anything.  UC can also cause UTIs because the crystals scratch the lining of the urethra, etc...so either way...


Which is better for this...PenG or Oxytet?


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## helmstead (Feb 26, 2011)

I would tend to say oxytet...I don't use Pen much at all anymore except on young kids still on milk.


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> helmstead said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also maybe an anti-inflammatory would help the swelling...I read in cmjust's thread that they used ibuprofen...but I didn't see a dosage...


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## helmstead (Feb 26, 2011)

I dunno, I use banamine for anti-inflammatory...


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

helmstead said:
			
		

> I would tend to say oxytet...I don't use Pen much at all anymore except on young kids still on milk.


ok, Thanks.

Also maybe an anti-inflammatory would help the swelling...I read in cmjust's thread that they used ibuprofen...but I didn't see a dosage...


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

Haha! Helmstead we seem to be posting at the same time!


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

Since I don't have access to banamine without the vet...does anyone know dosage for ibuprofen?


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## helmstead (Feb 26, 2011)

I don't sorry...

When you do go to the vet see if they'll sell you like 5 cc of Banamine to keep on hand...it's something we all need to have.  The dose is SMALL (1cc per 100 lbs) so 5 cc would last you awhile.  Replace yearly.


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## ksalvagno (Feb 26, 2011)

Honestly, a bottle of Banamine is not that expensive. Better to have it on hand.


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 26, 2011)

Glad to hear he peed!!!  Yippie...and I agree..if he is peeing than there is no reason to cut off the pizzel!!!  I would get some pain reliever from the vet to have on hand, as well.  Especially if you find he is having UC issues.  Or anything pain really..its good to have around in an emergency.

Ibuprophen is a NSAD like Banamine so they cant be on it to long..not good for them.  Liver, kidney issues.   But I have use liquid ibuprofin for (human kids) on injured or feverish goats before. 

A dose or two shouldn't hurt, though.  I've used it for up to 3 days without issues.  Use it 2x the human dose.  IE if a 50lbs human dose is 3 tsp, you'd use 6 tsp for a 50lbs goat.

You can also use plain old Aspirin.   Dosage is (1)  325mg tablet per 10-15lbs of goat.  Asprin is something they can take with no issues really.  You need a higher dose because of the rumen does not absorb it that quick.  And with Asprin its only a 2 days withdrawal time.  

Im so happy for you guys...Its great thats he's peeing.  Now add some more Apple cider vinager in so he will keep drinking...!!! Yay!! Great news.

In the least you have bought yourself time till Monday!!!


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

ksalvagno said:
			
		

> Honestly, a bottle of Banamine is not that expensive. Better to have it on hand.


I'll definitely talk to the vet about it...and a few other rx drugs that I want for my medicine chest thanks to this forum  

I'm just looking into what I can do for him this weekend...


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> Glad to hear he peed!!!  Yippie...and I agree..if he is peeing than there is no reason to cut off the pizzel!!!  I would get some pain reliever from the vet to have on hand, as well.  Especially if you find he is having UC issues.  Or anything pain really..its good to have around in an emergency.
> 
> Ibuprophen is a NSAD like Banamine so they cant be on it to long..not good for them.  Liver, kidney issues.   But I have use liquid ibuprofin for (human kids) on injured or feverish goats before.
> 
> ...


Thank you Becky!

I have a binder that I keep all of my goats medical records in and in the back I have notes on dosages and recommendations for this and that condition.  That binder is like my goat bible!  I'll definitely add what you just said there.  And I definitely wouldn't use ibuprofen for more than a couple days...it's bad for humans too...and last on my list to use for dogs.

Does asprin have anti-inflammatory properties or is it just for pain relief? (It's my go to for personal pain...I should really know this but I don't)


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 26, 2011)

I believe Asprin has some antinflamatory effects. Not like NSAD's do.  But I know my grandmother swore by it for arthritis instead of all the other drugs she was given.  And I have used it on my goats many times with good results.  

I do know its safer for them than ibuprophen is. And no tylenol ever. 

You might wanna try asprin 1st..then if the vets gives you something else..you will have a decent time frame to use the drugs given by the vet???  Just a thought?


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> I believe Asprin has some antinflamatory effects. Not like NSAD's do.  But I know my grandmother swore by it for arthritis instead of all the other drugs she was given.  And I have used it on my goats many times with good results.
> 
> I do know its safer for them than ibuprophen is. And no tylenol ever.
> 
> You might wanna try asprin 1st..then if the vets gives you something else..you will have a decent time frame to use the drugs given by the vet???  Just a thought?


Good idea.  I'll try asprin.


Thought you all might want to see who I am trying to save:


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 26, 2011)

Awwwww...hes very sweet!!!    Get better soon boy!!


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## Roll farms (Feb 26, 2011)

Yup, kid's ibuprofen at 2x the kid's dose.

He's a cutie


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

Ok, I decided to go with a dose of the kids ibuprofen to bring the rest of the swelling down.  He doesn't seem in pain so I figured the swelling was more important.  I'll switch to asprin if I have to but won't keep him on the ibuprofen more than 24 hours.  I also dosed another round of Fruit Fresh (2Tbsp mixed with enough water to liquify).  He got a dose of Probios.  I also dosed with PenG (I was gonna go get Oxytet, but my muffler fell off my car  )...so PenG was what I had on hand.  Also applied some more baby butt cream to the area...it's looking much better with crystallization almost gone.  He is still a little swollen and red but looking more normal.

So whether it's UC or an infection I'm covering my bases.  He's still doing well.  He doesn't like the taste of the FF so he wasn't too pleased with that.  But he's a good boy and easy to treat.  Of course when I was done he ran right to DH for some loving cause he was a little mad at me...but after a few minutes I was forgiven.

Thanks for all the support!  I'll keep you posted.


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## jodief100 (Feb 26, 2011)

Yippee for pee pee!  

It looks like you caught it early enough to head it off.

So glad he is doing better.


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

There is a huge difference (I think) in the look of his area today.

Here's the pic from yesterday again:





And here's how it looks today:


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 26, 2011)

Looks like he's been peeing blood? Poor guy.  I would keep dosing the with the FF...and order some amonium chloride to add to his feed..above whats in there.  

Also passing those will definately be risk for infection...cuts and brusing on the way out!    That must hurt so bad.  OUCH!!

Poor boy...It dos'nt look pleasant at all!!!


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## elevan (Feb 26, 2011)

Emmetts Dairy said:
			
		

> Looks like he's been peeing blood? Poor guy.  I would keep dosing the with the FF...and order some amonium chloride to add to his feed..above whats in there.
> 
> Also passing those will definately be risk for infection...cuts and brusing on the way out!    That must hurt so bad.  OUCH!!
> 
> Poor boy...It dos'nt look pleasant at all!!!


I'm not sure that he's been peeing blood...the discoloration could be from the baby butt cream I used it's got sort of a reddish golden tint to it...

I ordered the AC yesterday.

He's such a good little trooper!


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## ksalvagno (Feb 26, 2011)

It is certainly looking better. Hydrangea root on a regular basis should help keep it away once you get things cleared up. I hope everything works out.


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## Caprice_Acres (Feb 27, 2011)

You can get ammonium chloride by the 25lb bag at a grain elevator. It's often added to grain mixes.  I bought a partial bag (14lbs) for about 7.00 I think.  It'll last FOREVER.

I mix it in with the free choice loose minerals, at a fairly high rate. The does don't get any until after they've kidded and have bucklings nursing on them.  Then I add it to the minearals again.

Make sure you balance your Calcium: Phosphorous ratios in the future. Offer alfalfa/grass mix hay, and that is likely adequate for bucklings/wethers, IMO. 

Usually feeds with Ammonium Chloride do not have adequate amounts.  That's why also adding it to the mineral mix is necessary.


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## elevan (Feb 27, 2011)

Caprice_Acres said:
			
		

> You can get ammonium chloride by the 25lb bag at a grain elevator. It's often added to grain mixes.  I bought a partial bag (14lbs) for about 7.00 I think.  It'll last FOREVER.
> 
> I mix it in with the free choice loose minerals, at a fairly high rate. The does don't get any until after they've kidded and have bucklings nursing on them.  Then I add it to the minearals again.
> 
> ...


My feed and my minerals both contain AC.  My hay is either grass / alfalfa mix or grass/ clover / alfalfa mix depending on supplier.


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## elevan (Feb 27, 2011)

Update:  Today Snickers seems to be doing much better.  Still peeing.  Swelling is down a lot.  No crystals on his outer hair.  He's still eating hay and drinking lots of water.

I'll be calling the vet first thing to get him in and we'll find out for sure what's going on at that point...I hope  

Thanks everyone!


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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 27, 2011)

Glad to hear he is doing better!


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## elevan (Feb 28, 2011)

Snickers is still doing well.  Still swollen and that's a concern for me...

He has a vet appointment at 2:30 today


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## SDGsoap&dairy (Feb 28, 2011)




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## cmjust0 (Feb 28, 2011)

Is he swollen along the whole length of his weiner, or is it just localized swelling at the end of the sheath?  If it's local, coulda just been simple urine scald the whole time.

If his whole weiner is swollen, tell the vet to put him on a round of dexamethasone.  I think it's 1ml/20lbs or so, IM.  Keep him on it for about a week, tapering off the dose down over the last couplethree days. Keep him on antibiotic - PenG works well for urinary stuff as that's it's main route of elimination -- for the duration of the round of dex.  Dex brings down swelling, but it weakens the immune system, hence the need for an accompanying antibiotic.


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## elevan (Feb 28, 2011)

Vet update:

Not UC!!!  

It's an infection only.

The vet wants him on antibiotics (Albon), lots of fresh water and to add back his grain with additional AC added as a preventative.

He also said the Fruit Fresh home remedy is very good if it were UC, but since it wasn't no harm done anyway.

Vet has goats himself so I trust him on this.


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## Roll farms (Feb 28, 2011)




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## Emmetts Dairy (Feb 28, 2011)

Great News!!! Im glad for you both!!!!!!!!!


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## cmjust0 (Feb 28, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> Vet update:
> 
> Not UC!!!
> 
> ...


What kind of infection?  Just infected right there at the end of the sheath, or was he saying he had a UTI?  

It's important because UTI can be a precursor to UC, since UTI bugs lower the acidity of urine..  Lower acidity helps stones to precipitate..  Just thinking about it in terms of how he said to go ahead and add the grain back to his diet.


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## ksalvagno (Feb 28, 2011)

Glad to hear things will be ok.


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## freemotion (Feb 28, 2011)

Woohoo!!!!


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## elevan (Feb 28, 2011)

cmjust0 said:
			
		

> What kind of infection?  Just infected right there at the end of the sheath, or was he saying he had a UTI?
> 
> It's important because UTI can be a precursor to UC, since UTI bugs lower the acidity of urine..  Lower acidity helps stones to precipitate..  Just thinking about it in terms of how he said to go ahead and add the grain back to his diet.


The infection is in the end of his penal shaft not in the bladder itself.

eta: He recommended adding AC to all of my boys feed.  He said there was no reason not to add the grain back.


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## 20kidsonhill (Mar 1, 2011)

elevan said:
			
		

> cmjust0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We were talking about adding additional AC to our feed, especially our show whethers. You said, your feed already contained it? So how much AC did your vet recommend to add? And do you plan on individually feeding each male or do you group feed?


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## elevan (Mar 1, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> elevan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Since we're not mixing it into entire batches, he said just about a 1/8-1/2 tsp per boy (we have dwarf breeds - probably a little more for standards) in their feed.  He said I could even go every other day since it's in their feed and minerals already.  He recommended adding it to feed over upping the amount in the minerals.

We feed as groups.  Currently we have our buck and one wether together...and as of today will have two young bucklings together (Snickers and his buddy).  When Snickers and (no name) reach at least 6 months they'll be joining the "big" boys and then it will be four boys feed group style.

I may even add a pinch to their water as well.

eta:  I would definitely add to wethers as my vet was very strong that wethers need the prevention as they are much more susceptible to UC

from another thread:


			
				Roll farms said:
			
		

> I put 4 Tbs to every 100# of feed as a top dress.....and I add a pinch to their water 1 or 2 x a week.


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## Boondachs (Mar 1, 2011)

OK, I'm a total Newbie and here researching as I am considering getting a few goats of my own.  

Sorry to sound so dumb, but can someone please tell me what UC is?   I tried to search it in the forums and ended up with so many listings that I have not found what it actually is.

Thanks!


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## elevan (Mar 1, 2011)

Boondachs said:
			
		

> OK, I'm a total Newbie and here researching as I am considering getting a few goats of my own.
> 
> Sorry to sound so dumb, but can someone please tell me what UC is?   I tried to search it in the forums and ended up with so many listings that I have not found what it actually is.
> 
> Thanks!


This link will give you a good idea of what it is:
http://www.jackmauldin.com/health/urinary calculi.htm


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## Boondachs (Mar 1, 2011)

Thank you so much!   Sounds like goats have some similarities to cats with urinary crystals LOL

(I used to work for a small animal hospital, we saw lots of blocked kitties)

Thanks again!!!!


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