# Best mixes for meat rabbit?



## secuono (Aug 26, 2011)

What is the best mix of breeds to get a good meat rabbit? Best two or three mixes for the buck, best 2 or 3 mixes for the doe?


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## DianeS (Aug 27, 2011)

According to what I learned when I first came here, traditionally the "best" meat rabbit is the offspring of a New Zealand and a Californian. A purebred of each, mate them, and the offspring have the best meat-to-bone ratio and the fastest growth rate.  I did that, and am quite happy with the results. The kits are heavier with meat than they look like they'll be, and the bones are nicely small. I may some day try to make my own cross that is a little more heavy, but until I have time to do that then this cross is fine by me. People who have better results than this are typically inventing their own mixes that do supremely well on their specific food sources. I have not heard of any other mixes that a large number of people recommend. 

Of course that's assuming you are looking for large meat rabbits. There are different ones if you need one that can reside in a smaller cage. And it gives standard pelts, too, not really nice ones like the Rexes. And since it's a mix it assumes you are not needing to sell the kits to others (or at least not for purebred prices). If you have any of those needs then the NZ/Cali cross might not be the best FOR YOU. Always take your own circumstances into consideration.


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## 20kidsonhill (Aug 29, 2011)

Try a silver fox and a new zealand cross. Silver fox have an excellant personality and an excellant bone to meat ratio. and are very good mothers.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 30, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> Try a silver fox and a new zealand cross. Silver fox have an excellant personality and an excellant bone to meat ratio. and are very good mothers.


X2 on this cross.  

Also if you are looking at a smaller rabbit due to space, the tan is also considered a very excellent choice for meat rabbits.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Aug 30, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

> X2 on this cross.
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> *Also if you are looking at a smaller rabbit due to space, the tan is also considered a very excellent choice for meat rabbits*.


Dutches and florida whites too! Some of the smaller breeds make surprisingly excellent meat rabbits (and, at the risk of sounding a little cold, it's a good source of meat if you have trouble selling culls). 
Many of the crosses in my area are Sables x NZ or Satins x NZ and they make some nice rabbits. We have lots of access to both of those breeds through excellent breeders in here, so that's probably got a lot to do with it. 
IMO you'd be safe crossing two strong healthy animals from a long list of breeds. Cals have been crossed into a few different breeds (Sables included) to improve type, and as stated, SFs are generally excellent mothers with fine bone. I wouldn't cross any giant breeds (like flemish/chinchilla/etc) because most have big ole bones.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 31, 2011)

crazyturkeydesigns said:
			
		

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I have to admit I love my sable.  His personality is tremendous and he is long and has good haunches.  And I've read many opinions about the giant breeds not being really good meat rabbits due to large bones.  If I went giant it would definitely be for show.  Amazing looking rabbits.  But they NEED a lot of space which I definitely don't have.  

I have a question.  Have you ever heard of holland lops as meat rabbits?  Or are they just for show and pets?  Just curious as to your opinion.  Thanks.


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## crazyturkeydesigns (Aug 31, 2011)

Ms. Research said:
			
		

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Our Sable buck is a sweetie too! I really like the sables because they aren't too big but they've certainly got some heft to them. 
I've never heard of hollands as meat rabbits, but we don't have so many in our area (good breeders, anyway) so you don't hear too much about them. From briefly reading about them, however, it seems as though their type relies a lot on larger bone structure to get that "massive" look, and, in general, the bigger the bone the less meat on  the bun. Like I said, though, that conclusion is just from some brief research. I imagine the HLs that are more refined in bone would carry a little more meat. 
That being said, any rabbit has meat on it's bones. Maybe some of the larger culls could go in the freezer? It's always an option (not my favorite, but sometimes the most practical).

Ooops, forgot to post a link I found that I think you'll like (if you haven't found it already):HLRSC
a ton of articles and useful to more than just HL breeders. Awesome stuff.


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## Ms. Research (Aug 31, 2011)

crazyturkeydesigns said:
			
		

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Thanks for your input.  Also thanks for the link posted.  Appreciate your help.   I knew Holland Lops had their own association but only looked at the association briefly.    

I have to agree with you on the stockier built.  It's more bone than meat.   Thought so but just wanted an opinion.   Reason I asked, I'm on a waiting list for holland lops.  I'm getting them as pets.  I wanted to experience different breeds.  I hear holland lops tend to be more friendlier.   Plus the cute little faces and droopy ears tend to lead me to believe hollands are more looked at as pets and show than meat.     I can't wait to see what they are like.


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## secuono (Aug 31, 2011)

I got a pair of silver fox. The lady had NZ, but they were mean and frankly...ugly, lol.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 1, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> I got a pair of silver fox. The lady had NZ, but they were mean and frankly...ugly, lol.


Too each his own is my way of thinking.  I hear a lot of good things about NZ's.  Don't think they are ugly but I guess I like color.  

Also regarding mean, I think it's all about how they are raised.  And handled by the breeder.   I will say that for any animal.  And yes there are those exceptions.  No matter how well you raise them, they can be mean. 

Good Luck with your pair of silver foxes.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 1, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> I got a pair of silver fox. The lady had NZ, but they were mean and frankly...ugly, lol.


The people we went to last night had cages and cages full of new zealand, new zealand/californian crosses, a few new zealand reds and a few silver foxes, they said known of them were used  to being handled, and the silver fox were much easier to look at and handle and get out of the cages, the new zealands jumped around and acted like they were getting slaughtered righ there on the spot. 

The new zealand red that we got is sycho.  I was hoping she would be a little easier to handle, the gentlemen felt we could settle her down, showed my son a safe way to carry her around, said pick her up by the back of the neck, tuck her under your arm pit like a football, and carry her around every day for 5 minutes, then set her in the cage and rub on her for 5 more minutes every day. 

We will see.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 1, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

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Wow, why is it a pyscho?  I guess I'm not exposed to that many different way people raise rabbits.  The rabbits I went to see where very calm.  Not NZ reds, but every rabbit that my breeder showed me of her stock was very calm and friendly.  Watched the breeder handle them and not at all pyscho.  She had one that like to play with their litter box by throwing it around the crate, but nothing like what you are talking about.  

Hoping your son can calm this pyscho down with your help.  Safety comes first.  Maybe you will find one that's not like this and this pyscho can end up in a winter stew.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 1, 2011)

I don't think meat rabbits are always bred for their lovely personalities compared to the smaller pet breeds. My experience with many new zealands, unless you handle them a lot they are almost like trying to catch a wild rabbit.  The mixes new zealand rabbit he took out for my father n' law was calmer. She seemed like a real sweet doe. But the new zealands red, the second he put his hand in the cage they were bouncing around like ping-pong balls, he had a heck of a time holding on to the doe for us to look at it on this little table. she would have leaped right off. The silver fox you could let go of and they would just lay there flattened out.   

this is so difficult to get good stock for my son.  

I have limited cage space so I can't keep messing around with stuff that isn't going to work out. 

as far as the OPS original post, The seller raises hundreds of meat commercial rabbits and he said by far the silver fox are his favorite meat rabbit with an excellant meat to bone ratio and very good growing kits.


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## secuono (Sep 1, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

> I don't think meat rabbits are always bred for their lovely personalities compared to the smaller pet breeds. My experience with many new zealands, unless you handle them a lot they are almost like trying to catch a wild rabbit.  The mixes new zealand rabbit he took out for my father n' law was calmer. She seemed like a real sweet doe. But the new zealands red, the second he put his hand in the cage they were bouncing around like ping-pong balls, he had a heck of a time holding on to the doe for us to look at it on this little table. she would have leaped right off. The silver fox you could let go of and they would just lay there flattened out.
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You went to the same person? I guess her husband is who you are talking about? Idk if you are saying alls fine or if you had an issue with the place.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 1, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

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OH, sorry to confuss you. This isn't the person you had suggested. THis is a person I had lined up last week, I am planning on contacting the person you suggested, hoping she has better silver foxes than the doe I just got, who is almost all black with hardly no silvering on her. I am wanting two pair of silver fox once we get organized. These people only had two litters of silver fox and they had the same father, plus the doe from one litter was out of the mother of the other litter. Honestly If I thought they looked like fantastic sf's I would have gotten a pair, but they had some problems, lack of silvering one of them, almost all the kits in one litter had white feet. So I just got one from them to get my son something to start with. I can tell from what you have in the photos they are going to be nicer at the place you recommended.  

I also have/had a trio lined up at whitmore farms in Maryland, They carry the blue gene, I really would like those, we are having a hard time finding the time to make the 10 hour trip. He had a trio ready for us, then we couldn't get there on time to purchase them, so he sold them to the next person. I have been on his list for 6 months now. Very frustrating for my son. I can't decide if I should just give up on the maryland trip for now and go with the lady you suggested, or hold out for what is suppose to be amazing blood-lines carrying the blue gene.   what to do?  I have only so much space. INfact I may need you to start building us some rabbtit hutches.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 1, 2011)

20kidsonhill said:
			
		

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I can understand your son's frustration.  But what does he really want?  Just to raise meat rabbits?  Or does he want a really amazing bloodline carrying a blue gene that will be fun in seeing if you could get that gene to emerge?  IMHO, I think he would enjoy the latter.  Maybe it's time to teach patience? He's got a rabbit now.  He can learn and study that since he wants to learn how to butcher.  He needs to know the parts?  Sorry, sounds like school.  Can't help it.  Homeschool parent mentality.  

I feel both of your frustration.     Hope it all comes together for both of you soon.


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## secuono (Sep 2, 2011)

She had a gorgeous blue, but she was not gonna part with her. She told me she never had one before and hasn't since. She was so unusual to her that she kept it, I would of too! Would of bought her if she was selling...ah well. 

What do you mean by white feet? I don't know the breed standard and all for them, since that's not what I am doing. But since they seem so in demand, I may think about it for the future. Right now they are pets that make food, lol.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 2, 2011)

Incase you haven't heard my son's story "secouno" I have a 10 year old son, who was driving us crazy begging to go squirrel, deer and all kinds of hunting, not just so he could hunt, but so he can butcher and put food on the table. He did not get this from his father and I, although we farm and are no strangers to butchering, we hadn't butchered an animal in years, certainly not during his lifetime. That kind of aged me a little, man that made me feel old. 

Anyway, his grandfather has ordery cross bred meat rabbits, he had raised meat rabbits all his life(70years) and we felt getting our son a couple of his own meat rabbits might be a good way to curve the hunting issue, 

 To make a really long story short the two does he has been working with for the past 9 months or so, are a little older, one of them was a pet we had, and they have given him 1 kit in all that time. 

We talked about what we should get to replace them, should we just get ordinary any old meat rabbits or a certain breed, so my son and I researched meat breeds and when he came across the silver fox he was very excited about it. he is in 4H and would like to show a couple at our county fair. 

So in spring we put an order in for silver foxes from Whitmore farm.  He has many blue to choose from, and the onse he had picked out for us in July, that we were unable to get, carried the blue genes and he said we would get 50% blu bunnies. He has been doing this for years so I guess he knows what he is talking about. 

I can call him and he will put me back on the top of the list for this falls/winter kits. 10 hours of driving, or I can just call the women up that you got rabbits from and go with something from her and be done with it.Or we can just be happy with the two we have now, and cross breed them to a new zealand/rex buck and see how that goes for a few months. 

Sorry that was a long story.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 2, 2011)

They had all solid white feet part way up their legs, looked like they had white socks on. They were cute.  but this is incorrect coloring for silver foxes and we are planning on trying to show a couple at the 4H level next year at our fair.


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## 20kidsonhill (Sep 2, 2011)

ms. Research:  HOnestly he could care less about the blu gene, he said he really likes the black onse. He is thrilled with the rabbits he has, other than the fact he would like a silver fox male to breed to the doe. 

that was all whitmore farms had, I hadn't even realized it was that hard to come by.  Infact he had several blu rabbits for sale, but he wanted $75 for them and only $50 for the black onse, and my son said he really liked the black onse anyway. 

the only reason I was trying to get a little better quality is for him for showing at 4H, and for selling in the future for breeding stock to other people. My son sounded interested in trying to sell a few to make a little money from them.  

The gentlemen we purchased these last two rabbits from made enough money raising rabbits when he was  younger, that it supported his hobby and past time as a member of a roping team. He was a very interesting man to talk to. 




I apologize "secouno" for stealing your thread,  about best MIXES for MEAt.  But I do think you will be really happy with the silver fox.


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## secuono (Sep 2, 2011)

It's fine, already have my breed.
Mine don't have white paws or legs. The buck does have a slight bolt on his nose, really the only way I could tell them apart w/o flipping them over, lol. I'm trying to think of a name for him related to the hint of white. 
Wow, it is insanely hard to find the ARBA standard for the Silver Fox rabbit, no real detail.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 3, 2011)

Sorry, guess I overstepped my helpfulness.  

But can't help myself. 

Maybe this could help with your search for Silver Fox Standards.   

http://www.nsfrc.com/bluechoc.php

Good Luck


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## secuono (Sep 4, 2011)

Yea, I'm not seeing any info on them there either...weird...


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## Ms. Research (Sep 4, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> Yea, I'm not seeing any info on them there either...weird...


Then I would suggest you contact ARBA and get the right information then.  I know that when you join you get a book of Standards.  I will be attending my first ARBA rabbit show in Mullica Hill, NJ on September 17th.  If you went deeper into the site I posted you will see e-mails of the Person in charge of each show in each State.  Try e-mailing them.  I know the one running the show in Mullica Hill was very helpful and actually e-mailed me a program and welcomed me to the show.  

Sorry the information just doesn't jump right out at you.  Good Luck.


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## secuono (Sep 4, 2011)

Ok, each dog and cat breed has a page that tells you specific requirements. Fur colors, patterns, lengths, etc. Ear shape, position, size. Feet characteristics, hieght, body shape, head shape, etc etc. But rabbits don't, at least not this breed, has no info about anything. 
Ah well, I'm not breeding for shows, so it can wait.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 4, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

> Ok, each dog and cat breed has a page that tells you specific requirements. Fur colors, patterns, lengths, etc. Ear shape, position, size. Feet characteristics, hieght, body shape, head shape, etc etc. But rabbits don't, at least not this breed, has no info about anything.
> Ah well, I'm not breeding for shows, so it can wait.


Found this:

The Silver Fox Rabbit is listed as "Critical" by the American Livestock Breeds Conservancy, meaning there are less than 200 registered breeding adult Silver Fox rabbits in the United States and a global population of fewer than 2,000.

Weighing 9-12 pounds, two color varieties are available in this breed: black and blue, *black being the only one recognized by the ARBA's Standard of Perfection*. The Silver Fox's fur i*s more coarse than the fur of other rabbits, one and half to two inched long, and when stroked from tail to head, the fur stands up. This is referred to as "no flyback" fur. The guard hairs are white. This combined with the length and coarseness of the fur resembles the fur of the Arctic Silver Fox for which the Silver Fox rabbit is named.*


ARBA Standards of Perfection will have the required head shape, body shape, etc.  Don't know why rabbits don't have their own seperate page like cats and dogs, but their Organization has a book which when you join will tell you what the actual requirements for a Silver Fox is.  

But if you are not breeding for show, I guess you can wait.   But wouldn't it be wise to know the standards before you breed if you are thinking of breeding for show?  :/


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## terri9630 (Sep 4, 2011)

I couldn't find the breed standards anywhere and finally just went to the ARBA's web site and sepnt the $20 or so to buy the book.  You don't have to join to buy it.


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## secuono (Sep 6, 2011)

terri9630 said:
			
		

> I couldn't find the breed standards anywhere and finally just went to the ARBA's web site and sepnt the $20 or so to buy the book.  You don't have to join to buy it.


Can _you_ tell me the SF info when the book comes in?



I don't plan to breed for anything but meat now, from the two I have, from any I save from the pair. Later on I may get registered rabbits for show/standards, but for now, none of it matters really. I was just curious, it's weird they won't 'allow' it to be public info.


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## Ms. Research (Sep 6, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

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All organizations run things differently.  I don't know why, nor do I care.  Maybe they feel they worked hard to gather that information and feel they would like to get paid for their work?  It's public.  You just have to pay for it.  Or ask someone who will get a copy of it to send it to you for free, which you just did.


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## terri9630 (Sep 7, 2011)

secuono said:
			
		

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There are 2 pages of info (1 front and back) I will see if I can get a picture of it and send it to you.


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