# NEW KIDS WITH CROOKED FRONT LEG/FEET



## danetschool (Feb 9, 2022)

Our Nubian/Nigerian dwarf doe gave birth to twins last night, but there's a problem. The front feet on the buck kid are crooked and one foot on the doe kid is crooked. This is our first experience with kidding. The "defects" are not serious and the kids do all that a normal kid would do. Rickets? Vitamin deficiency?

To make matters worse we are financially strapped; not an extra dollar in the house-a bleak time. Is there something we can do to help their lower legs/feet? There is no possibility of a vet visit. 







The back legs seem fine. I will try to post  better pictures of the lower legs if needed. The areas effected are just above the hooves; slightly bent out or inward on the front legs.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 9, 2022)

I'd give 'em a couple of days.  Lots of times they'll straighten out on their own.  There is a Selenium and Vit E paste that sometimes helps to hasten the straightening, but even without they'll probably be fine.

If they don't show improvement you can use some popsicle sticks and vet wrap and 'help' them a little.  A lot of times they just need to gain a little weight so they can help stretch things out to a more normal position.

Congrats!  They are real cuties!


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## Alaskan (Feb 9, 2022)

frustratedearthmother said:


> I'd give 'em a couple of days.  Lots of times they'll straighten out on their own.  There is a Selenium and Vit E paste that sometimes helps to hasten the straightening, but even without they'll probably be fine.
> 
> If they don't show improvement you can use some popsicle sticks and vet wrap and 'help' them a little.  A lot of times they just need to gain a little weight so they can help stretch things out to a more normal position.
> 
> Congrats!  They are real cuties!


X2 on time, maybe selenium deficiency,  and the vet wrap ...

With wrapping...  they grow so crazy fast and move so much... be very careful that you do not wrap too tightly.  Easy to.do when they are so small


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## danetschool (Feb 10, 2022)

Thank you for the comforting replies. We have the paste on hand. How often would you recommend giving t he kids the paste?

A reply on another group said not to use the paste/gel, but to use the injectable kind. Your thoughts on this. I know it would be faster acting-any other reason? We don't have the injectable form.


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## Baymule (Feb 10, 2022)

I had a lamb born with front feet forward at the pastern. This earned him the moniker of Floppy Feet. Yeah, I know, dark humor. The only selenium/E paste I could find was a huge tube for a cow. I just pushed about a dime's worth out on my finger and put it in his mouth, once a day for a few days. That and my Great Pyrenees kept nudging the little guy to make him get up and walk, soon straightened him out. 

I know you are worried and love your babies dearly. It will be ok, y'all got this.


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## danetschool (Feb 10, 2022)

Baymule said:


> I had a lamb born with front feet forward at the pastern. This earned him the moniker of Floppy Feet. Yeah, I know, dark humor. The only selenium/E paste I could find was a huge tube for a cow. I just pushed about a dime's worth out on my finger and put it in his mouth, once a day for a few days. That and my Great Pyrenees kept nudging the little guy to make him get up and walk, soon straightened him out.
> 
> I know you are worried and love your babies dearly. It will be ok, y'all got this.


Thank you. I figured once a day, just needed to have someone confirm it. And the words of reassurance are much appreciated as I wonder if I had cared for the doe correctly this wouldn't have happened.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 10, 2022)

danetschool said:


> A reply on another group said not to use the paste/gel, but to use the injectable kind. Your thoughts on this. I know it would be faster acting-any other reason? We don't have the injectable form.


The injectable form is a prescription medication and you'd have to get it, or a prescription, from a vet.   It can also cause problems if dosed incorrectly.  The paste is pretty safe.


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## danetschool (Feb 10, 2022)

frustratedearthmother said:


> The injectable form is a prescription medication and you'd have to get it, or a prescription, from a vet.   It can also cause problems if dosed incorrectly.  The paste is pretty safe.


Thank you. 

We have two does and a buck. The second doe does not appear to be pregnant though the buck has been with her a lot. I have noticed the buck does not react to her as he does to the doe that just had the kids. My thought is that she has not, or ever, come into heat. The two does are the same age. Causes of no heat cycle?


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 10, 2022)

Do you know her history?  I had a doe that was born as a triplet with two brothers.  She was a freemartin.  She never cycled in her life. I've been raising goats for 30 years and that was the only time I had that happen.






						Freemartin | Veterinary Genetics Laboratory
					

A freemartin is defined as a female that is born as a twin with a male and is sterile as a result of exposure to masculinizing hormones.




					vgl.ucdavis.edu
				




_"A freemartin is defined as a female that is born as a twin with a male and is sterile as a result of exposure to masculinizing hormones. A connection between the two fetal circulatory systems develops early in gestation (anastomosis) and leads to the exchange of blood between the fetuses. Exposure to male hormones leads to underdevelopment of the female's reproductive tract."_

There is also a correlation between polled goats and breeding anomalies.  I don't have polled goats so I'm not extremely familiar, but I do know that it's suggested to not breed two polled goats because of the possibility of problems in the offspring.    Maybe someone with more experience in that area will chime in.  Or you can probably find more info online.


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## danetschool (Feb 10, 2022)

Pepper, our unpregnant doe, was born as a single. The mother refused her, so the owners put her with Inky, also a single, to be raised by that doe.

I looked up "polled" and I'm not sure I understand this right as it says born without horns-so a goat that never has horns? The explanation is worded oddly.  All our goats have horns.


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 10, 2022)

Yes- polled is a goat that never grows horns.

I have no other ideas for your doe that doesn’t cycle.  Could be she’s one that’s a secret cycler- however the buck would know.

Maybe someone else has an idea.


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## Alaskan (Feb 10, 2022)

Always possible to have a goat that "isn't right".  

Why she isn't cycling or getting pregnant though.... no idea.

Possible causes can also be that she is low in minerals/nutrients or has a high worm load.

Check them all for anemia.  See if their gums are nice and pink.  I think it is more accurate to check the inner eyelid... but gums are easier.


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## Legamin (Feb 11, 2022)

danetschool said:


> Our Nubian/Nigerian dwarf doe gave birth to twins last night, but there's a problem. The front feet on the buck kid are crooked and one foot on the doe kid is crooked. This is our first experience with kidding. The "defects" are not serious and the kids do all that a normal kid would do. Rickets? Vitamin deficiency?
> 
> To make matters worse we are financially strapped; not an extra dollar in the house-a bleak time. Is there something we can do to help their lower legs/feet? There is no possibility of a vet visit.
> View attachment 89339
> ...


First your observations: Is the kid limping when it walks?  Can it walk?  Does it make noise when it steps on the effected leg?  You’re looking for injury or pain through basic observation BEFORE making a physical exam.
Now….You need to be a little bold here.  Grasp the leg that is SOUND and gently but firmly manipulate the joints and see how the kid reacts…how it responds by either retracting or extending the leg with or against the movement you are creating.  Do this several times and try to sense a ‘normal’ reaction.  Now move to the questionable leg and VERY GENTLY do the same.  Do NOT be extreme in the movement and try to watch the eyes and breathing speed of the kid with each small degree of movement.  You are looking to see if there is increased breathing rate or squinting of the eyes, twitching of the  tail or other limbs…even ears, shaking or ’verbal’ cues.  A veterinary exam is called just that (even in humans) when the patient cannot describe their pain and symptoms in words that you can understand.  So YOU have to make all the assumptions.  Twitching, shaking, sudden retraction (pulling away), severe squinting of the eye(s) or twitching ears or an oral ‘urgent’ sound is an indication there is pain.  If there is ANY movement at the point of deformation (that is not a normal joint movement with limits) STOP! 🛑 do NOT go further than to assess that there IS, in fact, some abnormal movement.  It this is the case the leg was possibly broken or a new soft bone bent during birth and there is a little you CAN DO!  if you suspect a break, CALL your regular vet and explain you cannot bring the animal in (they don’t need too much detail) and ask if they can just offer advice.  MOST vets are really great this way and understand that good and caring and responsible animal owners have hard times on occasion and will offer limited advice…as long as you don’t abuse the priviledge….
if you suspect a break find a piece of cardboard that is light but stiff.  Form it so that it makes a triangle that fits around the length of the leg from below the shoulder to above the hoof.  Tape it in place so that it makes contact on all three sides, keeping the leg straight, but does not bind against the skin around the joints tightly…you don’t want to cause sores from rubbing that can get infected!  If you have some clean cloth (good) or gauze binding (better) prewrap the leg BEFORE putting the splint on…this will give padding to any delicate points of contact.  Make sure there are no sharp edges on the cardboard.  Once the cardboard is in place attach a cloth strap rom the splint (tape it securely to the top) to over the shoulders and loosely tied around the top of the opposite leg to help keep the splint from being easily kicked off.  If you can keep the kid quiet for a few days that is best…if it is nursing…it needs to keep nursing so just do your best to keep an eye on it.
slight bends are not unusual in kids.  ’knock-kneed’ kids or those with outward pointing hooves are not necessarily injured or deformed.  The bones of newborns are very ‘plastic’ and can bend and stay bend when stressed during an unusual birth.  So you need to run your hands gently up and down the unaffected leg several times getting a clear idea of the musculoskeletal anatomy of the leg that appears normal.  Take your time!  Go to the effected leg and make an identical examination of the anatomy.  If there are no gross differences, if there is not abnormal boney movements, no obvious observable expression of pain or limping…you have a kid with a leg that is different.  The best thing to do is nothing except observe carefully and do frequent…daily examinations for a few weeks to ensure that the problem was not missed and possibly worsening.  There are deformities that occur especially in close line breeding over several generations and there are the ‘one offs’ that just show up.  If it turns out to be a long term problem feed it well, grow it out as best you can and advertise it prior to an upcoming ethnic holiday which might be celebrated in your area.  Kid meat is highly desirable and you might realize enough of a profit that you can buy another goat or meet other pressing needs.  If you are part of a local church you might ask for assistance in caring for your family (first) and your animals until you are able to get on your financial feet.  As a disabled vet myself I understand circumstances that put you off balance and in the wind for sometimes years while others make decisions that effect your life.  It is hard and there is often no short cut through it.  A solid local church is best equipped for just such short term needs.  God bless y’all and I hope this is helpful.  If I can offer any other advice feel free to pm me.


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## danetschool (Feb 11, 2022)

Legamin said:


> First your observations: Is the kid limping when it walks? *No.* Can it walk? *Yes.* Does it make noise when it steps on the effected leg?  *No.*You’re looking for injury or pain through basic observation BEFORE making a physical exam.
> Now….You need to be a little bold here.  Grasp the leg that is SOUND and gently but firmly manipulate the joints and see how the kid reacts…how it responds by either retracting or extending the leg with or against the movement you are creating.  Do this several times and try to sense a ‘normal’ reaction. *We have done so and it causes discomfort in the kid.* Now move to the questionable leg and VERY GENTLY do the same. Do NOT be extreme in the movement and try to watch the eyes and breathing speed of the kid with each small degree of movement. You are looking to see if there is increased breathing rate or squinting of the eyes, twitching of the tail or other limbs…even ears, shaking or ’verbal’ cues. A veterinary exam is called just that (even in humans) when the patient cannot describe their pain and symptoms in words that you can understand. So YOU have to make all the assumptions. Twitching, shaking, sudden retraction (pulling away), severe squinting of the eye(s) or twitching ears or an oral ‘urgent’ sound is an indication there is pain. If there is ANY movement at the point of deformation (that is not a normal joint movement with limits) STOP! 🛑 do NOT go further than to assess that there IS, in fact, some abnormal movement.  It this is the case the leg was possibly broken or a new soft bone bent during birth and there is a little you CAN DO!  if you suspect a break, CALL your regular vet and explain you cannot bring the animal in (they don’t need too much detail) and ask if they can just offer advice.  MOST vets are really great this way and understand that good and caring and responsible animal owners have hard times on occasion and will offer limited advice…as long as you don’t abuse the priviledge….
> if you suspect a break find a piece of cardboard that is light but stiff.  Form it so that it makes a triangle that fits around the length of the leg from below the shoulder to above the hoof.  Tape it in place so that it makes contact on all three sides, keeping the leg straight, but does not bind against the skin around the joints tightly…you don’t want to cause sores from rubbing that can get infected!  If you have some clean cloth (good) or gauze binding (better) prewrap the leg BEFORE putting the splint on…this will give padding to any delicate points of contact.  Make sure there are no sharp edges on the cardboard.  Once the cardboard is in place attach a cloth strap rom the splint (tape it securely to the top) to over the shoulders and loosely tied around the top of the opposite leg to help keep the splint from being easily kicked off.  If you can keep the kid quiet for a few days that is best…if it is nursing…it needs to keep nursing so just do your best to keep an eye on it.
> slight bends are not unusual in kids.  ’knock-kneed’ kids or those with outward pointing hooves are not necessarily injured or deformed.  The bones of newborns are very ‘plastic’ and can bend and stay bend when stressed during an unusual birth.  So you need to run your hands gently up and down the unaffected leg several times getting a clear idea of the musculoskeletal anatomy of the leg that appears normal.  Take your time!  Go to the effected leg and make an identical examination of the anatomy.  If there are no gross differences, if there is not abnormal boney movements, no obvious observable expression of pain or limping…you have a kid with a leg that is different.  The best thing to do is nothing except observe carefully and do frequent…daily examinations for a few weeks to ensure that the problem was not missed and possibly worsening.  There are deformities that occur especially in close line breeding over several generations and there are the ‘one offs’ that just show up.  If it turns out to be a long term problem feed it well, grow it out as best you can and advertise it prior to an upcoming ethnic holiday which might be celebrated in your area.  Kid meat is highly desirable and you might realize enough of a profit that you can buy another goat or meet other pressing needs.  If you are part of a local church you might ask for assistance in caring for your family (first) and your animals until you are able to get on your financial feet.  As a disabled vet myself I understand circumstances that put you off balance and in the wind for sometimes years while others make decisions that effect your life.  It is hard and there is often no short cut through it.  A solid local church is best equipped for just such short term needs.  God bless y’all and I hope this is helpful.  If I can offer any other advice feel free to pm me. *Thank you for the insightful reply. Yesterday, the little doe kid, the one I thought the worse off, no longer had a bend in her leg and looked normal. The buck kid also looked improved. From what I see their problems are disappearing giving us two robust, heathy kids. Again, thank you, your reply will be useful to me in determining if a goat is in pain in the future. I plan on saving your post to my desk top.*


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## danetschool (Feb 11, 2022)

Alaskan said:


> Always possible to have a goat that "isn't right".
> 
> Why she isn't cycling or getting pregnant though.... no idea.
> 
> Possible causes can also be that she is low in minerals/nutrients or has a high worm load.



I have been neglectful in providing minerals in a timely manner. I've already come to the conclusion that this may be why she isn't cycling. They have been wormed on a regular basis.


Alaskan said:


> Check them all for anemia.  See if their gums are nice and pink.  I think it is more accurate to check the inner eyelid... but gums are easier.


I will do this as soon as the sun comes up. Thank you.


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## Legamin (Feb 11, 2022)

Sounds like the soft newborn bones got a bit bent during kidding and are straightening.  Even if the they don’t fully straighten it is not likely to cause pain once the bones harden fully.  The best you can do is continue to watch for signs of discomfort.  With sheep we have frequent lambing intrevelations…especially in the meat flock that is bred for carcass size.  Sometimes if the ewe is in trouble there is no choice but to help and occasionally that help can stress joints or leg bones…rarely…worse.  If this were my animal I would watch for normal development and freedom from discomfort.  If it meets the genetic standard of the breed it is probably safe to re-breed to the next line.  As we have changed focus from goats to rare breed sheep the last of our goats ended up in the freezer.  I miss the nutty personalities of the goats!  What I don’t miss is the constant fence repairs and finding the same old goat at the back door after jumping yet another point in the 5’ tall welded panel fence or squeezed through the gate so that it could rub on the back door and beg for loves and pets and a neck rub down….They are the most wonderful characters!  Just not that profitable.  As I have gotten older the sheep are more predictable and constant and require less intensive interaction.  Now I just worry about whether I have kept up with all my chores…they seem to do the rest!
Best of luck, again, probably no big deal with the leg…just smother it in loves and pets!
PS. If you have a close friend that is also raising goats you might try to work out a trade for vaccinations, minerals, and any needed antibiotic shots…general health maintenance stuff.  I have chopped wood, done basic tune-ups, vacuumed carpets and shoveled poop in barter.  I have eaten fried grasshoppers, worms and drank melted snow for a few seasons.  Occasionally you will find something around your property that someone else needs and can make a solid exchange.  I have a brother that sells parts off of his ‘antique’ autos that liter his property at EBay auction and keeps body and soul together.  Sometimes life forces us to be creative.   As the psalmist said in Psalms 37:25 “I have been young, and _now_ am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.”  I’ll be praying for you.


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## Legamin (Feb 11, 2022)

danetschool said:


> I have been neglectful in providing minerals in a timely manner. I've already come to the conclusion that this may be why she isn't cycling. They have been wormed on a regular basis.
> 
> I will do this as soon as the sun comes up. Thank you.


Good thought.  I was thinking more to the immediate common physicality issues that are frequent…and anemia is often one of those less obvious…yet frequent things!  Good catch!  In the medical and science field our saying was to “Look for horses…NOT zebras” when diagnosing a problem.


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## Mini Horses (Feb 11, 2022)

There is always the possibility of cysts on ovaries, preventing cycling and/or egg drop.  If she's healthy otherwise, you just accept it.   When you get an opportunity to mineralize, she may come around.   While a vet might be able to intervene, at this point it seems to be await and see issue.   By the way, you might give her some of the selenium paste maybe once or twice a week for a month and see if that changes anything.  🤞😊

I'm of the opinion that the kids will straighten those legs with activity.  I've had mini horses born with similar issues and they came around just fine in a couple weeks of use!   Let us know how it goes -- we care.


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## danetschool (Feb 12, 2022)

Legamin said:


> *Sounds like the soft newborn bones got a bit bent during kidding and are straightening. * Even if the they don’t fully straighten it is not likely to cause pain once the bones harden fully.  The best you can do is continue to watch for signs of discomfort.  With sheep we have frequent lambing intrevelations…especially in the meat flock that is bred for carcass size.  Sometimes if the ewe is in trouble there is no choice but to help and occasionally that help can stress joints or leg bones…rarely…worse.  If this were my animal I would watch for normal development and freedom from discomfort.  If it meets the genetic standard of the breed it is probably safe to re-breed to the next line.  As we have changed focus from goats to rare breed sheep the last of our goats ended up in the freezer.  I miss the nutty personalities of the goats!  What I don’t miss is the constant fence repairs and finding the same old goat at the back door after jumping yet another point in the 5’ tall welded panel fence or squeezed through the gate so that it could rub on the back door and beg for loves and pets and a neck rub down….They are the most wonderful characters!  Just not that profitable.  As I have gotten older the sheep are more predictable and constant and require less intensive interaction.  Now I just worry about whether I have kept up with all my chores…they seem to do the rest!
> Best of luck, again, probably no big deal with the leg…just smother it in loves and pets!
> PS. If you have a close friend that is also raising goats you might try to work out a trade for vaccinations, minerals, and any needed antibiotic shots…general health maintenance stuff.  I have chopped wood, done basic tune-ups, vacuumed carpets and shoveled poop in barter.  I have eaten fried grasshoppers, worms and drank melted snow for a few seasons.  Occasionally you will find something around your property that someone else needs and can make a solid exchange.  I have a brother that sells parts off of his ‘antique’ autos that liter his property at EBay auction and keeps body and soul together.  Sometimes life forces us to be creative.   As the psalmist said in Psalms 37:25 “I have been young, and _now_ am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.”  I’ll be praying for you.


It looks like this is exactly what the problem was. The leg/feet look quite normal now and the kids are well able to keep up with Mom as she tours the backyard. What fun to watch the kids gambol and play; such a hoot! I am much relieved that the leg issue resolved itself and the kids are hardy and healthy. Thank you.


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## danetschool (Feb 12, 2022)

Thanks to all for your posts and assistance.


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## Alaskan (Feb 12, 2022)

danetschool said:


> Thanks to all for your posts and assistance.


Thanks for the update!!

Great news.


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## Mini Horses (Feb 12, 2022)

All's well that ends well!  😁.  Enjoy them.


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## danetschool (Feb 13, 2022)

A question on my unpregnant doe. Her udder has developed significantly. Sites I have looked at stated that a developed udder on a young doe is not a sign of pregnancy. Is this true?


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 13, 2022)

The first thing I think of when I see udder development is that babies are coming at some point.  Especially when you say "significant" udder development.  My question is - why are you certain this doe is NOT pregnant?  I believe you stated that you haven't seen her cycle and that she's been with the buck?  Generally speaking - that indicates pregnancy.  

If you are going by belly size, I'll share a very short story with you.  I once had a pygmy doe that I hoped was bred but she didn't develop a large, wide belly.   However, she was very deep bodied.  She developed an udder and eventually went into labor.  That was early in my goat ownership and she had problems.  I called the vet and after looking at her he thought perhaps she had one baby that was not presenting correctly because of her lack of belly size.  He went in and untangled and delivered triplets, lol.  Long story short - belly size is not always an indicator of pregnancy.

Can you post a pic of your doe.  Maybe a side shot, an udder shot, and a shot from above?  It would be interesting to see.

You are correct that an open doe can develop an udder.  It's called "precocious" udder and happens occasionally.  

If you want to be sure - there is a blood test to detect pregnancy in goats.  It's inexpensive ($6.00) and would give you the answer you need.






						Goat Pregnancy Testing | Sage Ag Labs
					

BioPRYN Blood Pregnancy Test for Goats. Test your goats for pregnancy with Sage Ag Labs.




					sageaglab.com


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## danetschool (Feb 13, 2022)

frustratedearthmother said:


> The first thing I think of when I see udder development is that babies are coming at some point.  Especially when you say "significant" udder development.  My question is - why are you certain this doe is NOT pregnant?  I believe you stated that you haven't seen her cycle and that she's been with the buck?  Generally speaking - that indicates pregnancy.


After looking the doe, Pepper, over this morning I'm thinking she is pregnant after all. Her udder is bigger than just two days ago and tauter. She seems to be taking on a more pregnant look; possibly just my wishful thinking.


frustratedearthmother said:


> If you are going by belly size, I'll share a very short story with you.  I once had a pygmy doe that I hoped was bred but she didn't develop a large, wide belly.   However, she was very deep bodied.  She developed an udder and eventually went into labor.  That was early in my goat ownership and she had problems.  I called the vet and after looking at her he thought perhaps she had one baby that was not presenting correctly because of her lack of belly size.  He went in and untangled and delivered triplets, lol.  Long story short - belly size is not always an indicator of pregnancy.


We've seen this with our dogs; not showing until the last week before delivery.



frustratedearthmother said:


> Can you post a pic of your doe.  Maybe a side shot, an udder shot, and a shot from above?  It would be interesting to see.


I'll have my Kimmi take pictures when we can and post them. Neither of us are doing well today. Very cold and the weather makes the aches and pains so much worse. It's this dang triple wide; the floors are always like walking on ice.



frustratedearthmother said:


> You are correct that an open doe can develop an udder.  It's called "precocious" udder and happens occasionally.
> 
> *If you want to be sure - there is a blood test to detect pregnancy in goats.  It's inexpensive ($6.00) and would give you the answer you need.*


Good to know. Thank you.



This is our buck, Toby. Friends warned us against having a buck in that they stink and are nasty. Not Toby. He always smells of warm hay and no nastiness about him. He is just as nice and friendly as he was as a small kid.



frustratedearthmother said:


> Goat Pregnancy Testing | Sage Ag Labs
> 
> 
> BioPRYN Blood Pregnancy Test for Goats. Test your goats for pregnancy with Sage Ag Labs.
> ...


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## frustratedearthmother (Feb 13, 2022)

danetschool said:


> I'll have my Kimmi take pictures when we can and post them. Neither of us are doing well today.


No rush - at your leisure!  Maybe she'll have babies soon and you can post pics of them!  Hope you warm up - I'm a cold weather wuss.  I prefer to hibernate than go out in the cold.

Have you tried to feel the ligaments in Pepper's rear to try to determine when delivery might be close?   It's easy and is a reliable indicator of upcoming labor.









						Goat 101: How to Tell When Your Goat is in Labor (Or Getting Close!) • The Prairie Homestead
					

So. We all know that a goat usually kids about 150 days after being bred. That’s the easy part. The hard part is knowing WHEN you need to start staying close to the barn, and when it’s ok to head to town for a leisurely afternoon of running errands. I am not a goat expert. […]




					www.theprairiehomestead.com
				




Good luck!


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## Ridgetop (Feb 13, 2022)

Sounds Iike your doe is definitely pregnant.  You rarely see bucks mount the does when pen breeding since they refer to breed at night.  Congrats!  You will probably have more kids soon.


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## danetschool (Feb 13, 2022)

frustratedearthmother said:


> No rush - at your leisure!  Maybe she'll have babies soon and you can post pics of them!  Hope you warm up - I'm a cold weather wuss.  I prefer to hibernate than go out in the cold.
> 
> Have you tried to feel the ligaments in Pepper's rear to try to determine when delivery might be close?   It's easy and is a reliable indicator of upcoming labor.
> 
> ...


I tried to do the ligament test with Inky and I guess I do not know how to do it right as Inky's kids were a surprise.

I will see if there is a youtube video I can watch-words didn't do it. This afternoon I thought I could feel movement; could have been a rumbling stomach. Accck-I've a lot to learn with the goats.


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## Ridgetop (Feb 13, 2022)

If she has an udder she is pregnant.  Just wait - they will arrive!  Everyone says feel the ligaments butin 35 yers I have hnever been able to tell that way.  i watch the udder and vulva.  When it gets soft, wobbly, and darker pink she is close.  If you think she is due now, you can check her teats and she might have a few drops of colostrum come out.  I don't bother with that because I don't want to squeeze out the good stuff!  LOL


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## Baymule (Feb 14, 2022)

Any time you have a question or need help, just bring it to the forum. Bent legs, udder, pregnant or not, You will get the help and answers you need. 

Sounds like y'all are about to be grand-goaties again!


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## danetschool (Feb 14, 2022)

Ridgetop said:


> If she has an udder she is pregnant.  Just wait - they will arrive!  Everyone says feel the ligaments butin 35 yers I have hnever bleeen ab to tell that way.  i watch the udder and vulva.  When it gets soft, wobbly, and darker pink she is close.  If you think she is due now, you can check her teats and she might have a few drops of colostrum come out.  I don't bother with that because I don't want to squeeze out the good stuff!  LOL


I am glad I'm not the only one that can't tell by the ligaments. The udder is getting bigger and, yes, she is pregnant, but as to when I've no idea; wait and wait some more I guess.


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## danetschool (Feb 14, 2022)

Baymule said:


> Any time you have a question or need help, just bring it to the forum. Bent legs, udder, pregnant or not, You will get the help and answers you need.
> 
> Sounds like y'all are about to be grand-goaties again!


Looks that way; grampa to goat kids and pups and ducks and... The wife and I are critter people.


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## Legamin (Feb 14, 2022)

danetschool said:


> It looks like this is exactly what the problem was. The leg/feet look quite normal now and the kids are well able to keep up with Mom as she tours the backyard. What fun to watch the kids gambol and play; such a hoot! I am much relieved that the leg issue resolved itself and the kids are hardy and healthy. Thank you.


Great to hear!  Best of luck.


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## Baymule (Feb 15, 2022)

I have ewes that bag up like a soccer ball for WEEKS! Yes, that will make you crazy!


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## danetschool (Feb 27, 2022)

Our doe that never showed had two doe kids this morning. The second kid was born at eight AM and Pepper is still having strong contractions; a third kid. It has been over two hours since the second kid was born and I'm worried. How long is too long?


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## danetschool (Feb 27, 2022)

The contractions/pushing seemed to have stopped. Pepper is standing, nursing, chewing her cud, and does not appear in distress. Apparently just expelling afterbirth. I hope.  Now a dog is going into labor-good grief!


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## Mini Horses (Feb 27, 2022)

Assume you saw the afterbirth?   Yes. That process has contractions like the kids arriving.  It's what cleans them out well.  😊

Now the dog????   And you thought retirement was a quiet time?   🤣🤞


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## danetschool (Feb 27, 2022)

Mini Horses said:


> Assume you saw the afterbirth?   Yes. That process has contractions like the kids arriving.  It's what cleans them out well.  😊
> 
> Now the dog????   And you thought retirement was a quiet time?   🤣🤞


I had thought the afterbirth had been expelled, apparently not all of it. All seems well now. These new kids have the same crooked feet with birth, but now I know not to be concerned about it. The first two are doing great and run like the wind.

The dog, Sally, is a first time Mom, so it's likely to be a long time before any puppies are born. We'll probably be up all night again...


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## Baymule (Feb 28, 2022)

Congratulations on the new kids. You are getting to be an old hand at this now. Wish you and your dog the best, a litter of strong healthy puppies.


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## danetschool (Feb 28, 2022)

Baymule said:


> Congratulations on the new kids. You are getting to be an old hand at this now. Wish you and your dog the best, a litter of strong healthy puppies.


Five new puppies, three male and two female. All are doing well as are the new kids.


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## Baymule (Feb 28, 2022)

Awesome!


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## Ridgetop (Mar 9, 2022)

Glad to hear legs are straight now.  Good not to worry about new set of kids.  Crooked legs with large multiple births or small mom are normal and eventually straighten.  Had a couple lambs this year in first fresheners tht knuckeled under but can't remember which now and can't tell by looking at them!


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## saktibta00 (Apr 8, 2022)

I'd give 'em a couple of days. Lots of times they'll straighten out on their own. There is a Selenium and Vit E paste that sometimes helps to hasten the straightening, but even without they'll probably be fine.  
hellodear.in

teatv.ltd


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